# The Dawesome Thread - ABYSS and NOVUM discussion. New synth KULT released December 22, 22!



## doctoremmet

So, Tracktion are running an extended 4th of July sale, and I happened to notice they released yet another new synth - after recently giving us their FM monster f.’em.

It is called ABYSS and has been developed by a “new kid on the block”, Dawesome (Peter V.)

This one’s interesting. A very nice looking UI lets you pick various “tone colours” from an indeed very cool looking and colourful “grid” and place a number of them in a 2D gradient, where you can sort of spectrally crossfade between them. There’s some modulation capabilities and that’s it. Refreshingly simple, and that’s what makes it weirdly attractive to me. Well, that and the fact that it is very much developed with a Roli Seaboard in mind. Plus, the demos sound kind of... nice? A bit like IRIS perhaps, some vaporwave-esque tones in there I think?

Anyway... I am curious if any of you have done some research, used the 90 day free demo or have perhaps bought this one. The developer has explained some of the architecture in the dedicated KVR thread, but I don’t think I have fully grasped the concept yet. I THINK I did see @Fleer in the comments? Any thoughts?

Any input would be appreciated. Colour me intrigued. Price (with 40% discount) is $77 - which may be a bit steep? (Ends friday July 9, 2021).

ADDED:
There is a way to still get a 30% discount (ends August 15, 2021). Check post #82 in this thread


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## doctoremmet




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## doctoremmet




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## Dr.Quest

Trying it out now and I think it's great! A good secret weapon synth.


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## Fleer

Well, I did get it and I do like it a lot as I love pads, particularly of the organic persuasion. And I also love its GUI, which is part of what I wish for in any synth: a visual user experience that befits its sonic signature. Very well done, this one.


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## doctoremmet

Thanks guys. Would you say the sound and workflow brings something new to the table?


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## Fleer

Workflow most certainly, though I would position it between Iris and Pigments regarding sonic “feel” and scope. If you like those, I’d say go for it.


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## doctoremmet

doctoremmet said:


> where you can sort of spectrally crossfade between them


@Fleer @Dr.Quest Is this a correct assumption? Or does that coloured 2D "strip" represent some other form of sound mangling? Is it "simply" a crossfade? Would love to have a slightly better grasp, but do not have the time to demo at the moment. Any input is much appreciated!


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## doctoremmet

This is what the developer (Peter) posted on KVR, but I am having a hard time understanding this without having had any actual exposure to the synth yet:

“Thanks for the interest! The topic is a bit complex ... hence the answer is a bit long: 

Every single tone-colour is a spectral model. These models have been derived from natural samples. This has a couple of benefits: the models capture the fluctuations of natural sounds, hence they sound very organic and have a nice texture. At the same time they are not fixed samples, but can be modified. In the current version you can add / remove detail, add "musical" noise which is specifically tuned to the tonecolour, increase the fluctuations or make the sound static like an oscillator voice. This is just the tip of the iceberg - the models are quite flexible and other parameters may be added in later versions (if there is interest). The underlying spectral model used in Abyss is based on my own research and is in many aspects different from the usual "STFT" or harmonic+noise+residual approaches. 
Careful listeners here in the forum suspected that the engine is based on samples. That is also true to some extent: the spectral model is quite CPU intensive, but I wanted Abyss to be less demanding on CPU. Hence when you click / select any tone-colour the spectral model is rendered into a multisample, so when playing the synth these multi-samples are played back. With more and more CPU available I will at some point extend the technology to work directly on the spectral models. This will allow realtime modulations of the spectral model. But you can achieve this with ease in Abyss already today: simply put multiple variations of tone colours on the gradient - there is no practical limit on how many tone-colours you place on the gradient. In practice I have rarely needed more than a handful tone colours to make even the smoothest transitions. 
The tone-colours are sorted into the 2D "surf" area with help of an "artificial hearing model". Based on this model sounds that are similar are placed close to each other and also have similar tone colour. However, your inner representation of sounds is not two dimensional! Actually the way our ears and brains resolve and understand timbre is quite amazing and fascinating topic, and an active area of research. We know for sure that our inner representation of sound has at least 20 dimensions, probably more. So any projection onto two or three dimensions will necessarily place different tone colours close to each other. This is bad for scientific approach of remodelling sound, but for creative sound design I think it is even a feature: the 2D map _roughly_ places similar timbres in proximity, but not with mathematical precision, hence you have many pleasant surprises. Also "surfing" the map is so speedy that you can "browse" through dozens of sounds in matter of seconds, which is fun and effective at the same time. 

I hope this demystifies the technology.”


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## Fleer

Seems a good description, but I haven’t played with it enough to guide you, dr. E, as I’ll only be able to do so next week. I got it on a hunch, visually and sonically, but I’m no synth buff I’m afraid. More like a preset pusher.


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## doctoremmet

Cheers, much appreciated anyway! I may do the same, although I suspect Cherry Audio will release their take on the Memorymoog next week as well, and I did just get soundDUST’s Soviet Synthfundibulum as well. So I’m beginning to feel getting YET another synth would be ridiculous at this point. It’s the unique approach and the GUI that makes this one more attractive than the N’th “hardware emulation” I guess. I think this could be one of those instant-gratification instruments, especially when paired with my Roli stuff.


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## Fleer

Those were my thoughts exactly


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## doctoremmet

Interesting talk about the synth’s architecture, from the 38m time mark onwards. I STILL do not completely understand the concept yet, but getting there...


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## kgdrum

Am I the only person that isn’t comfortable with Tracktion’s extremely limited time period that they offer introduction pricing?
I might be late to the party but it seems like it’s always a few days. For me with this one I’m just hearing about Abyss today, I need more time especially with a synth that utilizes new synth architecture.
I wish Tracktion gave people something like a 2 week introduction pricing on new products,I suspect they’d have more sales.


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## doctoremmet

I hear you. On the other hand...
You CAN demo their stuff unrestricted for 90 days. They pretty much do a 40% / 50% off sale every four months (spring, 4th of july and BF), so arguably the only annoying thing could be you have to wait a month or maybe six weeks before you can grab one of their synths (after the intro price that is) after the trial period. Which isn’t THAT bad either


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## Dr.Quest

The cross fading is quite clever and sounds kind of mystical in a granular sort of way. I don’t have anything that sounds exactly like it and nothing with a workflow like this one. Seems worth it for the intro price for sure.


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## rrichard63

doctoremmet said:


> This is what the developer (Peter) posted on KVR, but I am having a hard time understanding this without having had any actual exposure to the synth yet:
> 
> “Thanks for the interest! The topic is a bit complex ... hence the answer is a bit long:
> 
> Every single tone-colour is a spectral model. These models have been derived from natural samples. This has a couple of benefits: the models capture the fluctuations of natural sounds, hence they sound very organic and have a nice texture. At the same time they are not fixed samples, but can be modified. In the current version you can add / remove detail, add "musical" noise which is specifically tuned to the tonecolour, increase the fluctuations or make the sound static like an oscillator voice. This is just the tip of the iceberg - the models are quite flexible and other parameters may be added in later versions (if there is interest). The underlying spectral model used in Abyss is based on my own research and is in many aspects different from the usual "STFT" or harmonic+noise+residual approaches.
> Careful listeners here in the forum suspected that the engine is based on samples. That is also true to some extent: the spectral model is quite CPU intensive, but I wanted Abyss to be less demanding on CPU. Hence when you click / select any tone-colour the spectral model is rendered into a multisample, so when playing the synth these multi-samples are played back. With more and more CPU available I will at some point extend the technology to work directly on the spectral models. This will allow realtime modulations of the spectral model. But you can achieve this with ease in Abyss already today: simply put multiple variations of tone colours on the gradient - there is no practical limit on how many tone-colours you place on the gradient. In practice I have rarely needed more than a handful tone colours to make even the smoothest transitions.
> The tone-colours are sorted into the 2D "surf" area with help of an "artificial hearing model". Based on this model sounds that are similar are placed close to each other and also have similar tone colour. However, your inner representation of sounds is not two dimensional! Actually the way our ears and brains resolve and understand timbre is quite amazing and fascinating topic, and an active area of research. We know for sure that our inner representation of sound has at least 20 dimensions, probably more. So any projection onto two or three dimensions will necessarily place different tone colours close to each other. This is bad for scientific approach of remodelling sound, but for creative sound design I think it is even a feature: the 2D map _roughly_ places similar timbres in proximity, but not with mathematical precision, hence you have many pleasant surprises. Also "surfing" the map is so speedy that you can "browse" through dozens of sounds in matter of seconds, which is fun and effective at the same time.
> 
> I hope this demystifies the technology.”


I confess to not understanding very much of this, but it sounds like "spectral modeling" is something new. Are there other "spectral modeling" synthesizers that I might have heard of?

@Fleer compares Abyss to Iris and Pigments in terms of sound. Does that mean the algorithms are similar? Or is Abyss truly sui generis?


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## Fleer

Don’t go that far, my dear. Not because it ain’t so, but because I still have to dive in next week. As for now I’m enamored with its visual and sonic preset prowess


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## doctoremmet

rrichard63 said:


> I confess to not understanding very much of this, but it sounds like "spectral modeling" is something new. Are there other "spectral modeling" synthesizers that I might have heard of?
> 
> @Fleer compares Abyss to Iris and Pigments in terms of sound. Does that mean the algorithms are similar? Or is Abyss truly sui generis?


True spectral processing is at the core of IRIS2, Steinberg Padshop and Unfiltered Audio’s SpecOps plugin for instance. So there are absolutely “spectral filtering” synths on the market.

What I’ve understood from some of Peter’s written explanation is that the spectral modeling is at the heart of the “colours pane” that allows you to pick multiple “tones” (waveforms) and put them on the 2D “crossfading strip”. People were wondering whether those tones (there are ca. 2000 of them) are samples. This is apparently not the case. The tones are coded in the form of “spectral models” and once you pick a tone, the synth “renders” a set of multi-samples (waveforms) across the keyboard apparently. The tones can be shaped by dialing down the “detail” that’s in the spectral model - but only BEFORE the waveforms get “rendered out” it seems (so that’s not something one can modulate). Then there’s moving the “playhead” over the strip with tones (over time, modulated by LFOs or an envelope, or other controller - e.g. modwheel or other MPE-controlled CC), and applying a pretty regular sounding filter - and applying an envelope on VCA and that’s about it. So I wouldn’t say ABYSS is a very complicated synth, in terms of architecture, and it doesn’t resemble Pigments, Padshop et al in terms of features. Far from it, I’d argue - which for me is part of the appeal (I also OWN all of the others haha, so there’s that).

I think Fleer was trying to give me some “sonic ballpark” and mentioned Iris and Pigments as a sort of reference points (helpful!) and did not mean to imply this synth is on the same plane feature-wise. Which it isn’t nor does it aim to be.

Again, the main appeal seems to be the simplicity, the GUI, the fact it let’s you make your own expressive MPE patches fast, and the sound character. Which solely based on the few patches I hear in the demos is rather geared towards “organic sounding rather noisy rich pads”. Maybe it’s a one trick pony, who knows? That’s why I am gauging fresh users and I am trying to lure the developer himself to this thread


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## Fleer

Indeed, it does sound quite special on its own, best described as “organic pads and drones” somewhat similar to sonic aspects of Iris and Pigments. But I definitely wanted this in my toolbox as it sounds the part, looks the part, and seems much more straightforward than the two I mentioned. Glad to read that it’s even more special underneath by that dedicated developer.


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## doctoremmet

Fleer said:


> much more straightforward than the two I mentioned


This. Ease of use, fun, the ability to make cool sounds fast (and THIS is all still based on assumptions of course haha) and something that’s easy on the eyes. Every once in a while I want to escape MSoundFactory, Equator, Cypher, Biotek and the lot, and just have some fun


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## Fleer

Meanwhile, it seems Tracktion is on a roll. I love their stuff.


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## doctoremmet

As do I. Still enjoying Biotek and f.’em!


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## doctoremmet

doctoremmet said:


> True spectral processing is at the core of IRIS2, Steinberg Padshop and Unfiltered Audio’s SpecOps plugin for instance. So there are absolutely “spectral filtering” synths on the market.
> 
> What I’ve understood from some of Peter’s written explanation is that the spectral modeling is at the heart of the “colours pane” that allows you to pick multiple “tones” (waveforms) and put them on the 2D “crossfading strip”. People were wondering whether those tones (there are ca. 2000 of them) are samples. This is apparently not the case. The tones are coded in the form of “spectral models” and once you pick a tone, the synth “renders” a set of multi-samples (waveforms) across the keyboard apparently. The tones can be shaped by dialing down the “detail” that’s in the spectral model - but only BEFORE the waveforms get “rendered out” it seems (so that’s not something one can modulate). Then there’s moving the “playhead” over the strip with tones (over time, modulated by LFOs or an envelope, or other controller - e.g. modwheel or other MPE-controlled CC), and applying a pretty regular sounding filter - and applying an envelope on VCA and that’s about it. So I wouldn’t say ABYSS is a very complicated synth, in terms of architecture, and it doesn’t resemble Pigments, Padshop et al in terms of features. Far from it, I’d argue - which for me is part of the appeal (I also OWN all of the others haha, so there’s that).
> 
> I think Fleer was trying to give me some “sonic ballpark” and mentioned Iris and Pigments as a sort of reference points (helpful!) and did not mean to imply this synth is on the same plane feature-wise. Which it isn’t nor does it aim to be.
> 
> Again, the main appeal seems to be the simplicity, the GUI, the fact it let’s you make your own expressive MPE patches fast, and not in the least the sound character. Which solely based on the few patches I hear in the demos is rather geared towards “organic sounding rather noisy rich pads”. Maybe it’s a one trick pony, who knows? That’s why I am gauging fresh users and I am trying to lure the developer himself to this thread


So Richard, “spectral models” may be of interest if you’re a synth nerd like myself. But it is largely marketing mumbo jumbo otherwise.

TL;DRs aren’t my strongsuit hehe


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## doctoremmet

Purchased ✅🆒 - thanks y'all!


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## Peter V

Hey Folks, 
I have been invited to join the party! My name is Peter V, I am the developer of Abyss. I don't want to abuse this forum for any kind of marketing, but if you have any questions to me I am happy to answer!


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## Peter V

I saw one question on "spectral processing" and what it brings to the table.
There are a classical signal processing techniques that simply work on the sampled, digital audio. This is called "time domain" audio processing. Typical stuff includes filtering, analog modelling, compression, delays ... all that stuff. 
Different from this is "spectral": here the audio signal is divided into (many) frequency bands, typically 2048 or more. So like a very detailed EQ ... and then the processing takes place on the individual audio bands. This allows for different ways to process the signal, and it is much closer to the way our ears process audio. The downside: it is very CPU heavy and introduces latency. 
"Spectral Modelling" is when you model sound sources with this kind of technology. There are tons of different models, all with their own pros and cons. 
Abyss uses models that excel in capturing and modifying natural fluctuations in sound. It achieves sound that you normally would expect from sample libraries, but it gives you much more flexibility in tone shaping if you compare it with a normal sample bases engine.


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## doctoremmet

Hi Peter. Nice of you to join! Also, feel free to market away on here - there are a lot of developers sharing news, introducing new products etc. There are even free forums on here specifically for that purpose.


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## doctoremmet

Peter V said:


> I saw one question on "spectral processing" and what it brings to the table.
> There are a classical signal processing techniques that simply work on the sampled, digital audio. This is called "time domain" audio processing. Typical stuff includes filtering, analog modelling, compression, delays ... all that stuff.
> Different from this is "spectral": here the audio signal is divided into (many) frequency bands, typically 2048 or more. So like a very detailed EQ ... and then the processing takes place on the individual audio bands. This allows for different ways to process the signal, and it is much closer to the way our ears process audio. The downside: it is very CPU heavy and introduces latency.
> "Spectral Modelling" is when you model sound sources with this kind of technology. There are tons of different models, all with their own pros and cons.
> Abyss uses models that excel in capturing and modifying natural fluctuations in sound. It achieves sound that you normally would expect from sample libraries, but it gives you much more flexibility in tone shaping if you compare it with a normal sample bases engine.


Thanks. And if I understand correctly, these models are what constitute the 2000+ tone colours one can pick and put as “basic sounds” on the gradient strip right?


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## kgdrum

So what kind of heavy lifting does Abyss require on a computers CPU?


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## Peter V

doctoremmet said:


> Thanks. And if I understand correctly, these models are what constitute the 2000+ tone colours one can pick and put as “basic sounds” on the gradient strip right?


Yes, thats right. Each of the 2000+ coloured dots is one model (read "one basic timbre">). Each model / timbre can be modified with the sliders to the right of the map. 
You create the tonal range of a patch by placing those timbres on the gradient. The "POSITION" slider works like a playhead: it plays the sound-colour underneath. If you for example modulate the POSITION with an ADSR you shape the timbral evolution of sound like this. 
Of course you can also modulate the POSITION with anything else, eg Modwheel, or pressure, an LFO or any combination of it.


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## Peter V

kgdrum said:


> So what kind of heavy lifting does Abyss require on a computers CPU?


Hopefully not so much - at least I took a lot of effort to make it low on CPU demands. 

Initially my engine was doing the spectral processing in real time, this works on a decent computer, but its really CPU heavy. Hence I have implemented a different approach in Abyss: the CPU intensive spectral computation happens when you are selecting timbres. Once you place it on the gradient the spectral model is rendered into a multi-sample, and this is then used for playing the synth. 

The disadvantage: you can't realtime modulate the spectral modelling parameters: DETAIL, ORGANIC, NOISE and STRAIGTHEN. Practically this does not matter too much: you simply put multiple copies of the same tone-colour with different settings on the gradient. In my own sound design I had never needed more than 3-5 of those to have a smooth transition that sounded like directly modulating the sliders.


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## doctoremmet

So the position slider is like a playhead that can be modulated back and forth, playing the tone colors that result from the spectral models right? Is that some sort of amplitude crossfading, like a “DJ mix crossfade” or volume mixing? At that stage there’s no spectral crossfading going on I gather.

Question about the spectral models. If one adjusts the detail level to the bare minimum, would that leave a “basic” waveform - like a saw, sine, triangle etc?

Another question - when one picks a timbre (based on a spectral model) it will then “render” a set of waveforms, much like multi-sampled material? So spread out over the keyrange, the spectral model will result in different timbres - like a multi-sample? Or is it more like a waveform rendered by a traditional oscillator, so “a single shot” waveform that gets spread out over the keyrange?

Edit: reading your post above, the models are ACTUALLY rendering WAVs (or the equivalent) that are then stored in RAM and processed further in the signal flow? So I should take “multisamples” quite literally?


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## doctoremmet

Peter V said:


> The disadvantage: you can't realtime modulate the spectral modelling parameters: DETAIL, ORGANIC, NOISE and STRAIGTHEN. Practically this does not matter too much: you simply put multiple copies of the same tone-colour with different settings on the gradient.


Gotcha!! This was what I wanted to be sure about. Now I’m on the same page as you are. Pick colours / timbres. And let the crossfading and all sorts of modulation mayhem do the rest, rather than “realtime” modulating “details” and “noise” in the modelled realm. Sonically there won’t be that much of a difference anyway, and it is a way more CPU friendly way of handling things!


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## Peter V

doctoremmet said:


> Gotcha!! This was what I wanted to be sure about. Now I’m on the same page as you are. Pick colours / timbres. And let the crossfading and all sorts of modulation mayhem do the rest, rather than “realtime” modulating “details” and “noise” in the modelled realm. Sonically there won’t be that much of a difference anyway, and it is a way more CPU friendly way of handling things!


Yes, and there is another thing: you don't need to mess with curves and stuff when you want to fine tune how the sound evolves along time - because you can simply drag the tone colours on the gradient where you want to have them. Eg you may have some very close to each other for rapid change during attack, and other are spaced further away from each other in the sustain / release phase. This turned out to be far more intuitive, effective and "what-you-see-is-what-you-get" then dealing with curves that shape the modulation.


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## doctoremmet

Peter V said:


> Yes, and there is another thing: you don't need to mess with curves and stuff when you want to fine tune how the sound evolves along time - because you can simply drag the tone colours on the gradient where you want to have them. Eg you may have some very close to each other for rapid change during attack, and other are spaced further away from each other in the sustain / release phase. This turned out to be far more intuitive, effective and "what-you-see-is-what-you-get" then dealing with curves that shape the modulation.


I hadn’t realized this, but I have to say I am the least “visual” person you’ll ever meet haha. I need words, language, and numeric feedback to feel at home. I mean, I am an Xsample and Meldaproduction fanboy haha. Ever had a look at THEIR UIs?? Your synth fees ALIEN to me hahaha!

Kidding aside, Peter. That is SMART. Thanks for chiming in here! I am sure others will appreciate it as much as I do. I hope you’ll stick around and check in from time to time - also to do the “blunt” marketing. The people on here are usually very nice, polite, eager to buy new useful tools that can help make their workflow more streamlined, and on the lookout for that “new hip and modern sound”. (We see marketing as the right kind of distraction here  so no worries mate.)

And I think your synth can deliver that. Thanks!


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## rrichard63

The ideas are beginning to sink in now. Thank you, @Peter V and @doctoremmet, for helping me out.


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## Peter V

doctoremmet said:


> So the position slider is like a playhead that can be modulated back and forth, playing the tone colors that result from the spectral models right? Is that some sort of amplitude crossfading, like a “DJ mix crossfade” or volume mixing? At that stage there’s no spectral crossfading going on I gather.
> 
> Question about the spectral models. If one adjusts the detail level to the bare minimum, would that leave a “basic” waveform - like a saw, sine, triangle etc?
> 
> Another question - when one picks a timbre (based on a spectral model) it will then “render” a set of waveforms, much like multi-sampled material? So spread out over the keyrange, the spectral model will result in different timbres - like a multi-sample? Or is it more like a waveform rendered by a traditional oscillator, so “a single shot” waveform that gets spread out over the keyrange?
> 
> Edit: reading your post above, the models are ACTUALLY rendering WAVs (or the equivalent) that are then stored in RAM and processed further in the signal flow? So I should take “multisamples” quite literally?


Yes: detail to the minimum will leave something like a "natural" sin wave. Let me explain the "natural" here: normally sin waves are generated by a simple math equation, and this creates a very static sound. When you play eg a bass flute in the low octave the sound is also very close to a sin wave, but of course - there are some fluctuations in the sound. This is what also happens in Abyss - these kind of fluctuations remain. (for mathematicians: its pseudo-periodicity instead of periodic) 
You can emphasize these fluctuation with higher values of ORGANIC, or by increasing DIRT (which can be modulated and automated by the way) 

Second questions: yes, the model render an equivalent of WAVs that are stored in RAM and processed further in the signal flow. Think of it as a sample library where you can generate your own samples.


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## Peter V

doctoremmet said:


> I hadn’t realized this, but I have to say I am the least “visual” person you’ll ever meet haha. I need words, language, and numeric feedback to feel at home. I mean, I am an Xsample and Meldaproduction fanboy haha. Ever had a look at THEIR UIs?? Your synth fees ALIEN to me hahaha!
> 
> Kidding aside, Peter. That is SMART. Thanks for chiming in here! I am sure others will appreciate it as much as I do. I hope you’ll stick around and check in from time to time - also to do the “blunt” marketing. The people on here are usually very nice, polite, eager to buy new useful tools that can help make their workflow more streamlined, and on the lookout for that “new hip and modern sound”. (We see marketing as the right kind of distraction here  so no worries mate.)
> 
> And I think your synth can deliver that. Thanks!


Thank you! 

I am a musician myself, and I don't want anyone to spend money on Abyss (or any of my future instruments) and later regret it. This is why Abyss has a 90 days trial period w/o any functional limitation - purchase only if you find it fun and inspiring and worth the money.


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## Fleer

Thanks for joining us, Peter.


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## doctoremmet

Peter V said:


> yes, the model render an equivalent of WAVs that are stored in RAM and processed further in the signal flow. Think of it as a sample library where you can generate your own samples.


This is great. I gather the models themselves are based on some sort of resynthesis paradigm? I can see how this opens up all kinds of cool (future!) expansions for the Abyss “concept”!


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## Peter V

doctoremmet said:


> This is great. I gather the models themselves are based on some sort of resynthesis paradigm? I can see how this opens up all kinds of cool (future!) expansions for the Abyss “concept”!


Yes, they are. However: normal resynthesis aims to make an exact copy of the sound sample. Here I feed in a couple of samples and aim to capture the variations. 

And you are exactly right ... this allows for all kind of future expansions of this concept!!


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## ir99

Peter V said:


> Yes, they are. However: normal resynthesis aims to make an exact copy of the sound sample. Here I feed in a couple of samples and aim to capture the variations.
> 
> And you are exactly right ... this allows for all kind of future expansions of this concept!!


...any "future expansions" or ideas that you could share with us now? Or is that for you to know and for us to be patient?


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## Peter V

ir99 said:


> ...any "future expansions" or ideas that you could share with us now? Or is that for you to know and for us to be patient?


Well, I am afraid I don't want to share my specific product ideas in the public. You can pm me if you are interested in joining the beta of the next instrument I am working on. That will be around end of this year.


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## ir99

Peter V said:


> Well, I am afraid I don't want to share my specific product ideas in the public. You can pm me if you are interested in joining the beta of the next instrument I am working on. That will be around end of this year.


...of course, apologies. 

I think I'm more used to developers who just add more typical variations on a general theme eg granular synthesis, etc. From the more idiosyncratic (definitely meant in a complimentary sense) way Abyss has been developed, I can see why you wouldn't wish to divulge anything at this stage. Will be something to look forward to and, if I know software forums, a source of happy speculation for those that have discovered the joys of Abyss.


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## doctoremmet

Subtle bump: the 40% off discount for Tracktion stuff -including this cool new synth- expires today, Friday July 9. If you want to test drive Dawesome ABYSS first, there is a cool 90 day demo option (and no functionality restrictions).


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## Peter V

Anyone interested in a review of Abyss by awarded composer Don Bodin in his channel SampleLibraryReview? If so please leave a comment on his current DealCompressor:  

He finds Abyss interesting and will do a review if viewers leave him comment that they are interested!


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## doctoremmet

Left a comment ✅


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## doctoremmet

Also: @donbodin just do it already 
(please?)
(pretty please?)


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## Fleer

Do send a copy to Simeon Amburgey as well if you can.


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## doctoremmet

Fleer said:


> Do send a copy to Simeon Amburgey as well if you can.


@Simeon you'll love this one


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## Simeon

Guess what????
Looking forward to checking this out.
Thanks, @Peter V, and all of my friends here.


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## doctoremmet

Ah that’s cool @Simeon. Looking forward to your explorations.


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## antret

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. . It’s on the list to look into….


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## rnb_2

doctoremmet said:


> Subtle bump: the 40% off discount for Tracktion stuff -including this cool new synth- expires today, Friday July 9. If you want to test drive Dawesome ABYSS first, there is a cool 90 day demo option (and no functionality restrictions).


I purchased last night, but it looks like the intro sale on Abyss goes through the weekend (everything else ended yesterday).


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## doctoremmet

rnb_2 said:


> I purchased last night, but it looks like the intro sale on Abyss goes through the weekend (everything else ended yesterday).


Cool. I based my little reminder on what I thought I had heard during the livestream


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Dr.Quest

This thing sounds really great together with Lunacy Audio Cube! Big sound!


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## lychee

I find the concept of this synth very refreshing, and for a beginner like me in this field, it seems much easier to create a sound without going through centuries in edits with tons of knobs to manipulate.
If I understood correctly, there with the color palette, in two seconds you are looking directly for the sound that comes close to what you have in mind, and then you refine it, it's a considerable gain in time.
Then I see that a point that could be negative in this concept, is that the 2000+ sound sources are sufficient to cover any type of sound universe that the user has in mind?


----------



## doctoremmet

lychee said:


> sufficient to cover any type of sound universe that the user has in mind?


Nope. But it doesn’t claim it can do that haha, as you may have suspected already. I have combined ABYSS pads and drones with some Plasmonic harp and Chromaphone percussion and it is really complementary. I think you’ll love it. But do not expect it to be the be-all-end-all of synths.

I do believe that the concept (tone colours, embodied in spectral models) lends itself for more synths developed by Peter, with a different “tone angle”. Very promising thought


----------



## antret

well, hitting the buy button didn’t take too long…. I can see where slight comparisons to isotope Iris come about. I had them both open and while there is a very loose similar vibe they get very different results. Together was pretty sweet actually. Oh, I threw in some FM goodness as well. Pretty sweet drone sound. 

Anyhow, as always this forum is dangerous to my bank accounts.


----------



## doctoremmet

antret said:


> Oh, I threw in some FM goodness as well


FM as in f.’em?


----------



## Fleer

That F'em is an FM monster synth.


----------



## doctoremmet

Fleer said:


> That F'em is an FM monster synth.


One of the very best


----------



## antret

Hi! 
No, no F’em. Honestly , I’m afraid (actually my wallet is afraid) to look into it as I know y’all speak so highly of it. .

My FM needs are pretty basic… I have recently got around to using Inphonik’s RYM2612…. Based on the old Yamaha chip in the Sega Genesis (?). 4 operator, 8 algorithms, sine waves only. As a quick side note…. They also offer a free companion app (RYMCast) that plays/opens the Sega music files (VGM files) and separates out the tracks. If you have the RYM2612 you can literally drag and drop the channel from the player app onto the synth and it will update the settings to match… you can have quite a ‘preset collection’ that way.


----------



## doctoremmet

For those still on the fence... check this video and the info in the video’s description


----------



## Peter V

There is a new version of Abyss available for download: 
* two more CC modulators 
* a new sample & hold modulator (a new random value for each note played) 
* LFOs can be switched to uni-polar 
* LFOs show zero-line when editing and they are bi-polar 
* Draw straight lines in the LFOs by using SHIFT+click and draw 

And last not least: there is a dice symbol next to the gradient to create a random gradient. All other sliders are not touched. The tone colours that are generated will take the settings of the sliders in the EDIT page. This is really fun!


----------



## doctoremmet

antret said:


> I have recently got around to using Inphonik’s RYM2612…. Based on the old Yamaha chip in the Sega Genesis (?). 4 operator, 8 algorithms, sine waves only.


That sounds like a lot of fun! Honestly, 4OP FM often hits a sweetspot for me too, using Opzilla and Flow Motion.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## antret

Peter V said:


> There is a new version of Abyss available for download:
> * two more CC modulators
> * a new sample & hold modulator (a new random value for each note played)
> * LFOs can be switched to uni-polar
> * LFOs show zero-line when editing and they are bi-polar
> * Draw straight lines in the LFOs by using SHIFT+click and draw
> 
> And last not least: there is a dice symbol next to the gradient to create a random gradient. All other sliders are not touched. The tone colours that are generated will take the settings of the sliders in the EDIT page. This is really fun!


Thanks Peter.... downloading update now. I love me some dice symbols.... excited to give it a spin.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

Peter V said:


> Different from this is "spectral": here the audio signal is divided into (many) frequency bands, typically 2048 or more. So like a very detailed EQ ... and then the processing takes place on the individual audio bands. This allows for different ways to process the signal, and it is much closer to the way our ears process audio. The downside: it is very CPU heavy and introduces latency.


Because of that, is there any hope that one day this could be handled by GPUs instead of CPUs, as I wondered myself many times playing with other CPU-intensive techs such as granular synthesis?


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

I finally have some time to play with _*Abyss *_today! I LOVE everything about it: the preset sounds of course, the modding possibilities, the tech behind, the GUI is clear, gorgeous and inspiring. It just gives you the incentive to try things out! It really gives me pleasure to sit in front of it, look at it and start exploring. Mission accomplished Peter! 

Now I started wondering about all that could be done controlling _Abyss _with a controller like _MusiKraken_! So many parameters! Even the names (Abyss-Kraken) are a good match! Imagine if I had used both together on my piece _Oceania! _
Just blows my mind away!

OK, now back to my playground, euh... I mean studio!


----------



## Peter V

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Because of that, is there any hope that one day this could be handled by GPUs instead of CPUs, as I wondered myself many times playing with other CPU-intensive techs such as granular synthesis?


Sure! As of today the main issue is, that GPUs and their non-graphic-compute libraries are geared towards longer intensive calculations, and not to short jobs with real-time requirements. The only way to deal with it is higher latency, and even then you risk occasional dropouts. As these libraries are installed in a huge variety of versions, serve very inhomogeneous hardware and have a lots of undocumented bugs it is difficult to write software that will run stable on everyones machine. 
There are startup companies trying to solve this, but there is no such library available as of now. I assume this will change in the next 2-3 years.


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

As I sat down in front of my computer this morning and looked at _Abyss_ and it's lovely GUI I said to my husband that I loved the colors which I described as fluo or phosphorescent.

He replied: "no, they are bioluminescent! Like some animals from the deep ocean."
I got it: the _Abyss_ concept dictated the chosen colors. Brilliant!! I was stunned, he's right!! Look at the parallel:


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## doctoremmet

On a roll @Peter V

Two livestreams at the same time?!



This one by fellow Hamburg hero @Waywyn aka Alex Pfeffer!!


----------



## doctoremmet

Abyss for sure is a hot property with all the right YT reviewers! Love it.


----------



## doctoremmet

Great! Benn Jordan joins in too!

By the looks of it, he will do a giveaway too.


----------



## doctoremmet

So, for those contemplating a purchase, I found a discount opportunity:


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## doctoremmet

Great! Looks like Cameron’s into ABYSS too:


----------



## doctoremmet

Great news! Our own @Tatiana Gordeeva has done a fantastic new piece, that incorporates ABYSS. As usual very well documented and beautifully crafted, it is an excellent showcase for both her talent as a composer and the instrument(s) used:






Olkhon, home of Shamanka - My piece featuring ABYSS, the new synth by Dawesome


Our next stop on our musical tour of Lake Baikal is a mysterious and most sacred place: Olkhon Island, home of Shamanka, a crystalline limestone-marble rock, previously called Shaman's Rock, connected to the neighbouring granite coast by a narrow isthmus and, more importantly, a most revered...




vi-control.net


----------



## doctoremmet

Cool! Looks like Cameron is doing a stream:


----------



## Pier

LOL I saw this in the Dawesome site and I'm definitely copying the idea when I release my next Zebra library.


----------



## doctoremmet

Pier said:


> LOL I saw this in the Dawesome site and I'm definitely copying the idea when I release my next Zebra library.


Yes. Noticed it a while ago. Great fun!


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

Pier said:


> LOL I saw this in the Dawesome site and I'm definitely copying the idea when I release my next Zebra library.


Yes, I laughed a lot too when I first saw it. I was even planning to use the exact same Nietzsche quote when I released my track _Oceania_.


----------



## doctoremmet

Here’s Cameron’s stream:


----------



## doctoremmet

Timemark 1h 27m 50s :: final version of composition ^


----------



## Pier

doctoremmet said:


> Here’s Cameron’s stream:



Woah this sold me on Abyss. Will definitely get it at some point.


----------



## doctoremmet

Data Broth is live streaming even more ABYSS at this very minute:


----------



## Fleer

Love that Venus Theory guy. What a voice.


----------



## doctoremmet

Fleer said:


> Love that Venus Theory guy. What a voice.


Cameron’s voice is great, yes haha. His synth chops are great too, a lot of my current understanding of Falcon2 and Voltage Modular is thanks to him.


----------



## Fleer

And he’s a Bitwig and Kilohearts maestro.


----------



## Peter V

Fleer said:


> And he’s a Bitwig and Kilohearts maestro.


I love his voice so much, he could even read the yellow pages and I would listen with full excitement.


----------



## doctoremmet

@Databroth just joined VI-C. Way cool!


----------



## doctoremmet

Free patches for ABYSS:



here: https://www.asuswebstorage.com/navigate/a/#/s/9A3075EAAC494BBABBCB3D6BA91221D54


----------



## doctoremmet

Incredibly great new soundtrack by @Tatiana Gordeeva - her second one using ABYSS. For those reading this thread now or some time in the future wanting to get a feel of what this synth excels at, these tracks are just essential. Unfortunately one also needs Tatiana’s sound design and composing talents to make something this cool of course….







My Glass Octopus, has now reached 36000+ views on YT


Update (22.05.24): My Glass Octopus has now surpassed the 36000 views mark on YouTube!! Unbelievable!! :dancedance: Fresh catch of the day! (21.08.20): My Glass Octopus has finally made its way officially on the Schmidt Ocean Institute (@SchmidtOcean) multiple social media platforms with...




vi-control.net


----------



## Pier

@doctoremmet you keep changing your profile picture and I keep wondering "who is that guy?"


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

Pier said:


> @doctoremmet you keep changing your profile picture and I keep wondering "who is that guy?"


Pier, don't be fooled. We now know who he is _really!





My Glass Octopus, my new soundtrack (using ABYSS) for a Schmidt Ocean Institute video


Thanks for the info. On top of being a great composer, you're also an adept in video-editing ! Aunt Tati is our SUPERWOMAN!



vi-control.net




_


----------



## Pier

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Pier, don't be fooled. We now know who he is _really!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Glass Octopus, my new soundtrack (using ABYSS) for a Schmidt Ocean Institute video
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info. On top of being a great composer, you're also an adept in video-editing ! Aunt Tati is our SUPERWOMAN!
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


"The man who came out of the swamp !"

LOL


----------



## Monkberry

Finally took this out of demo mode and bought today. Shout out to doctoremmet for posting the DATABROTH30 discount code. It pushed me over the edge.


----------



## doctoremmet

When I left the swamp there for a while, look what I found!


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> When I left the swamp there for a while, look what I found!



Cool !! Picked up several tweaking points not noted earlier. 🤗


----------



## doctoremmet

@Databroth ON A ROLL pal!


----------



## New_Loops

That looks very interesting, thanks!


----------



## Databroth

doctoremmet said:


> @Databroth ON A ROLL pal!



hey thank you, I'm trying to cover it once a week while my discount code is still valid
30% off, code is in the video description

I don't get anything from it, but I'm planning on making a pack for abyss that I hope to be sold through tracktion, so I'm trying to get on the best terms possible

I really love this synth though, it allows me to do stuff fast that would otherwise take longer in other synths

I think it's good to think of this one as a source of inspiration more than a tool to design specific sounds, it's worth exploring and putting together combinations that you might otherwise pass over on your journey towards creating sounds with more clinical instruments

I also have some plans on showing off a couple additional uses for this plugin that most users might not think of when first picking it up

thanks for sharing my link


----------



## doctoremmet

Databroth said:


> hey thank you, I'm trying to cover it once a week while my discount code is still valid
> 30% off, code is in the video description
> 
> I don't get anything from it, but I'm planning on making a pack for abyss that I hope to be sold through tracktion, so I'm trying to get on the best terms possible
> 
> I really love this synth though, it allows me to do stuff fast that would otherwise take longer in other synths
> 
> I think it's good to think of this one as a source of inspiration more than a tool to design specific sounds, it's worth exploring and putting together combinations that you might otherwise pass over on your journey towards creating sounds with more clinical instruments
> 
> I also have some plans on showing off a couple additional uses for this plugin that most users might not think of when first picking it up
> 
> thanks for sharing my link


My pleasure. I think Tracktion would (should!) be more than willing to adopt your soundpack. They have only released very few, for Biotek 2 mostly (at least the recent releases). I did purchase one, mostly for reverse engineering and learning tricks. Their presets tend to be very EDM oriented, DnB, dubstep, techno.

I would absolutely support you and get the sounds you’d release and I am also willing to support you in any other way. If there’s anything else I can do, DM me and let me know. In the mean time: good luck with the streams. I enjoy them.


----------



## Databroth

hey thank you so much, I'm going to keep working on this stuff til at least the end of the year
I think right now I just need to work harder and get more stuff done

I appreciate the support and positivity,


----------



## doctoremmet

By all means! Props and respect for your hard work.


----------



## Monkberry

This is such a fun synth to program. It's so easy to get lost in for hours. The GUI is beautiful and very functional. My user bank is growing at a rapid pace. Even altering presets can yield a completely different result than expected if you're not one to start from an initialized point.


----------



## doctoremmet

The workflow is really well thought out and ABYSS has become my fave for “noise”. @Peter V said on a livestream that the noise sounds are mostly based on his own field recordings… and that’s what one hears…


----------



## doctoremmet

doctoremmet said:


> ABYSS has become my fave for “noise”


Speaking of noise. It’s like Tatiana was listening in on me…

Have you guys & gals checked her latest composition? I have to say I am really impressed by it. A really visual piece, this is storytelling with sound design that is absolutely STUNNING imho.

Again, ABYSS has been used on this, next to a whole host of other synths no doubt. Wind, thunderstorms, pooring rain. It’s all there.

Go have a listen:






Sarma (Shamanka) - The Deadly Winds of Lake Baikal


With Sarma, the fourth and last installment for my Shamanka suite dedicated to the female shamans of the Lake Baikal area, we enter again the world of local legends... disturbing, violent and deadly legends. I would hardly call Sarma an ambient piece. Let's agree to call it an anemological piece...




vi-control.net


----------



## Dirtgrain

^ Thanks for pointing that out--it's so cool and jibes with my taste.


----------



## doctoremmet

Dirtgrain said:


> ^ Thanks for pointing that out--it's so cool and jibes with my taste.


Don’t tell me! Tell her haha, I think she’s a human being like the rest of us, and has posted her compositions to gauge our feedback and likes to hear back from you in her thread. ❤️

Edit: sorry - just noted you did just that !


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

Thank you everyone for mentioning my track!! ❤️ I replied to all of you (I hope) on the _Sarma _thread. 

Yes, @doctoremmet, a few other synths were used apart from ABYSS including granular ones like Straylight and Pharlight (both NI) to create the crazy screeching voices of the witch herself, also Pigments and a few other "secret ingredients" 

A lot of time was spent actually in the mixing stage, EQing, panning, moving things around for this kind of tornado effect and just to add even more chaos to the whole thing. 

It HAD to sound like hell unleashed and it WAS the case in the studio!


----------



## heisenberg

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, this is insane. Just saw this thread and started reading and now listening. OMG!

Post 82! Where's the URL to the site?! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

heisenberg said:


> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, this is insane. Just saw this thread and started reading and now listening. OMG!
> 
> Post 82! Where's the URL to the site?! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.


I think you just enter the code DATABROTH30 when you check out from https://www.tracktion.com/products/abyss


----------



## doctoremmet

Commercial soundset spotted.


----------



## doctoremmet

@Databroth 30% off code expires today!
FINAL CALL


----------



## doctoremmet

My final bump


----------



## José Herring

If I have Generate would this one be a bit of a repeat? Sounds very similar to me.


----------



## Databroth

José Herring said:


> If I have Generate would this one be a bit of a repeat? Sounds very similar to me.


really? I can't imagine how you'd possibly think these 2 synths sound remotely similar
like in any way at all, generate is probably the furthest synth I'd possibly compare with Abyss

so idk what to tell you to be honest


----------



## doctoremmet

I wouldn’t say so José. Soundwise they can both be gritty, gnarly and West-Coast-y. But ABYSS is more geared towards… well either “pipe-organ tones infused pads” or just plain noise drones that sound REALLY organic. Whereas Generate to me sounds a bit more aggressive, punchy and in your face. ABYSS is not the first synth I’d pick for transient-rich plucks 

And the UIs and workflow couldn’t be further apart. I love both synths to be honest.


----------



## José Herring

Databroth said:


> really? I can't imagine how you'd possibly think these 2 synths sound remotely similar
> like in any way at all, generate is probably the furthest synth I'd possibly compare with Abyss
> 
> so idk what to tell you to be honest


Ummm.... I don't own Abyss but from what I've heard, they can sound very close if you turn down the modulation capabilities in generate. If you're judging just by the presets, then yeah sure Generate is way more gritty but if you dial back the audio rate modulation, they sound very similar. 

I'll post an example.


----------



## Databroth

José Herring said:


> Ummm.... I don't own Abyss but from what I've heard, they can sound very close if you turn down the modulation capabilities in generate. If you're judging just by the presets, then yeah sure Generate is way more gritty but if you dial back the audio rate modulation, they sound very similar.
> 
> I'll post an example.


Having used both of them and not judging by presets at all, I can say without a doubt that they do not sound similar in any way what so ever

you might be able to find a small overlap, but you can find overlap in almost any synth with another synth

the fact of the matter is these two synths are two of the most different synths from each other out there

but yeah, I'm not going off of presets at all, I'm going off of sounds that can be made with each synth


----------



## doctoremmet

@Databroth @José Herring I have to say I do hear a certain tonal overlap, what I would call “Buchla ethetic”. So I kinda agree with the both of you. Like I said, what really sets ABYSS apart from any other synth I know is its brilliant mode of operation, and the noise tones have a character to them that I have never heard before and cannot forge out of any other synth I own, and that includes Generate, LION and my modular stuff.


----------



## José Herring

Databroth said:


> Having used both of them and not judging by presets at all, I can say without a doubt that they do not sound similar in any way what so ever
> 
> you might be able to find a small overlap, but you can find overlap in almost any synth with another synth
> 
> the fact of the matter is these two synths are two of the most different synths from each other out there
> 
> but yeah, I'm not going off of presets at all, I'm going off of sounds that can be made with each synth


Understood. But.....

I don't own Abyss and just wondering if what I'm hearing from Abyss Generate can do once you sit on Generate's tendency to uber mod. 

So, here's the type of organy pad I was hearing from Abyss done with Generate. Mostly I'm tryring to decide if it would be worth getting for this type of sound.


----------



## Databroth

doctoremmet said:


> @Databroth @José Herring I have to say I do hear a certain tonal overlap, what I would call “Buchla ethetic”. So I kinda agree with the both of you. Like I said, what really sets ABYSS apart from any other synth I know is its brilliant mode of operation, and the noise tones have a character to them that I have never heard before and cannot forge out of any other synth I own, and that includes Generate, LION and my modular stuff.


I mean there's just as much overlap as any synth compared to any other synth
but I'd say they are two with the least overlap


----------



## Peter V

José Herring said:


> If I have Generate would this one be a bit of a repeat? Sounds very similar to me.


Abyss comes with a 90 days trial period without any restrictions! 
So if your are undecided you may just want to try yourself!

And there is a 10 min video overview showing everything you need - Abyss is very intuitive and its easy and fast to create your own patches.


----------



## José Herring

Peter V said:


> Abyss comes with a 90 days trial period without any restrictions!
> So if your are undecided you may just want to try yourself!
> 
> And there is a 10 min video overview showing everything you need - Abyss is very intuitive and its easy and fast to create your own patches.


Alright. Now we're talkin'.


----------



## Daniel James

doctoremmet said:


> My final bump


Cheers for that code, was going to pick up Abyss today for work regardless. Legend 

-DJ


----------



## doctoremmet

Daniel James said:


> Cheers for that code, was going to pick up Abyss today for work regardless. Legend
> 
> -DJ


Pleasure mate. I hope you’ll do a ‘Avin’ A Look At ABYSS!


----------



## b_elliott

doctoremmet said:


> @Databroth @José Herring I have to say I do hear a certain tonal overlap, what I would call “Buchla ethetic”. So I kinda agree with the both of you. Like I said, what really sets ABYSS apart from any other synth I know is its brilliant mode of operation, and the noise tones have a character to them that I have never heard before and cannot forge out of any other synth I own, and that includes Generate, LION and my modular stuff.


Abyss and Generate both new to me. Just listened to Data Broth's one hour demo posted above. 
To my ears Abyss reminds me of the venerable VCS3 (my first synth encounter) from 1975. I had sounds created similar to what Data Broth pulls off. You might laff but I'd say Abyss sounds VCS3-y!


----------



## sostenuto

Generate Crossgrade ~ $129. __ Abyss with Code ~ $90. 
Mainstream Synths are: Omni 2.7, Pigments 3, Repro 1-5, NI K12U, Spire, Vital, Synthmaster(s), Pendulate.

Serious question ! Why choose either Abyss or Generate ? Respect BOTH. 

Must decide today.


----------



## Alchemedia

sostenuto said:


> Generate Crossgrade ~ $129. __ Abyss with Code ~ $90.
> Mainstream Synths are: Omni 2.7, Pigments 3, Repro 1-5, NI K12U, Spire, Vital, Synthmaster(s), Pendulate.
> 
> Serious question ! Why choose either Abyss or Generate ? Respect BOTH.
> 
> Must decide today.


Abyss is less likely to Generate a hummer.


----------



## sostenuto

Prefer generating something, whichever choice, rather than falling into something dark and deep tho. 🤦‍♂️


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Generate Crossgrade ~ $129. __ Abyss with Code ~ $90.
> Mainstream Synths are: Omni 2.7, Pigments 3, Repro 1-5, NI K12U, Spire, Vital, Synthmaster(s), Pendulate.
> 
> Serious question ! Why choose either Abyss or Generate ? Respect BOTH.
> 
> Must decide today.


Since you already have Pendulate, you likely know all about its operation and sound. Now imagine getting those oscillators on steroids and polyphony. Imagine any live performance by Suzanne Ciani, and you’ll be able to get that beautiful gritty Westcoast sound without having to dive deep in Easel-style controls. More, bigger, better. Same Pendulate sound character.

ABYSS offers a completely new way of picking sound sources, with its unique and novel approach. In a way it is more akin to a Prophet VS, a Wavestation or the Yammie SY22/35 synths, in that it almost is a vector synth, in the sense that you control a playhead that lets you flip through / crossfade various sound sources. Soundwise I have to say ABYSS is hardly comparable to any other synth I have. I feel it excels at noisy organic drones and pads. Especially the noise has a character I have hardly come across before. Definitely check out, listen and enjoy Tatiana Gordeeva’s latest compositions. They’re a fantastic showcase for that type of sound.


----------



## doctoremmet

b_elliott said:


> Abyss and Generate both new to me. Just listened to Data Broth's one hour demo posted above.
> To my ears Abyss reminds me of the venerable VCS3 (my first synth encounter) from 1975. I had sounds created similar to what Data Broth pulls off. You might laff but I'd say Abyss sounds VCS3-y!


Bill. Do yourself a favour and grab Pendulate - the free monophonic version of Generate. It is one of the best free synths out there. And speaking of "out there": it really is - so it'll perfectly suit your style of music, which is about as "free form" as it gets (which I love).


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Since you already have Pendulate, you likely know all about its operation and sound. Now imagine getting those oscillators on steroids and polyphony. Imagine any live performance by Suzanne Ciani, and you’ll be able to get that beautiful gritty Westcoast sound without having to dive deep in Easel-style controls. More, bigger, better. Same Pendulate sound character.
> 
> ABYSS offers a completely new way of picking sound sources, with its unique and novel approach. In a way it is more akin to a Prophet VS, a Wavestation or the Yammie SY22/35 synths, in that it almost is a vector synth, in the sense that you control a playhead that lets you flip through / crossfade various sound sources. Soundwise I have to say ABYSS is hardly comparable to any other synth I have. I feel it excels at noisy organic drones and pads. Especially the noise has a character I have hardly come across before. Definitely check out, listen and enjoy Tatiana Gordeeva’s latest compositions. They’re a fantastic showcase for that type of sound.


Terrific synopsis ! OTH _ makes choice even tougher _pour moi. _Rational move is save $30. now _ falling into ABYSS, and add Generate when doable. THX for this ! 👌🏻


----------



## gamma-ut

Tracktion has a 40% sale on now and it includes Abyss. Ends 7th September - a sort of late-summer/Labor Day sale I suppose.


----------



## doctoremmet

Great value people. Tracktion is on a roll. I already loved Biotek2. Then was finally able to buy f.’em and not much later Peter arrived on the scene with ABYSS. Cool trio of completely different synths. I say grab ‘m ALL. Especially you Kenny


----------



## doctoremmet

(Pssssst. Any Hyperion users out there? Do you think I need ANOTHER modular synth in my life? If so, why?)


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> (Pssssst. Any Hyperion users out there? Do you think I need ANOTHER modular synth in my life? If so, why?)


Easy for you to say ! 🤪 
Perfect timing for Sale, but pot-of-gold still out of reach. ABYSS comin' up ! 👍🏻


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

doctoremmet said:


> (Pssssst. Any Hyperion users out there? Do you think I need ANOTHER modular synth in my life? If so, why?)


Funny. I was exactly listening to it minutes ago! Yes Doc, you need _another_ one, especially this one! Sounds really cool!


----------



## doctoremmet

I promise I won’t buy another synth  but I’d love it if you would get ABYSS. I bet you’ll love it.


----------



## doctoremmet

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Funny. I was exactly listening to it minutes ago! Yes Doc, you need _another_ one, especially this one! Sounds really cool!


Oops…. Didn’t see that one coming haha


----------



## doctoremmet

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Funny. I was exactly listening to it minutes ago! Yes Doc, you need _another_ one, especially this one! Sounds really cool!


It does sound really cool. Agreed.


----------



## Alchemedia

doctoremmet said:


> (Pssssst. Any Hyperion users out there? Do you think I need ANOTHER modular synth in my life? If so, why?)


Ditto. Just say no! 
BTW, should I buy AAS Multiphonics? Asking for a friend.


----------



## Pier

@doctoremmet


----------



## doctoremmet

(watched it)


----------



## sostenuto

Current Traktion Promo fueling 'premature' Hyperion GAS ! 😨


----------



## heisenberg

Consider yourself fortunate if it is only Hyperion that is on your radar.


----------



## sostenuto

heisenberg said:


> Consider yourself fortunate if it is only Hyperion that is on your radar.


I wish !!! Current -40% adds cramps to GAS 😱


----------



## New_Loops

Pier said:


> @doctoremmet



Thanks, gonna check that out now.


----------



## grabauf

Looks and sounds great. Has anyone bought it and can share his/her experience?


----------



## doctoremmet

I decided to stick with REAKTOR and Voltage Modular.


----------



## grabauf

Voltage Modular was graphically too busy/confusing for me with all those big elements. 
(That's why I try to sell it at the moment  )
I prefer the sleek design of Hyperion.


----------



## doctoremmet

I say jump


----------



## grabauf

I'll jump as soon as my Voltage Modular is gone.


----------



## doctoremmet

Any cool third party modules on offer?


----------



## sostenuto

grabauf said:


> Looks and sounds great. Has anyone bought it and can share his/her experience?


Must checkout @ Tatiana Gordeeva _ My Glass Octopus. Tried to find initial Post for you, but huge number, many re. Schmidt Ocean Institute, so hard to give you Link. 
Worth effort to checkout her ABYSS creation ! imho


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

You rang Sir ? 

Seriously, thanks @sostenuto for the kind mention. The initial post for _*My Glass Octopus*_ is here 





My Glass Octopus, has now reached 36000+ views on YT


Update (22.05.24): My Glass Octopus has now surpassed the 36000 views mark on YouTube!! Unbelievable!! :dancedance: Fresh catch of the day! (21.08.20): My Glass Octopus has finally made its way officially on the Schmidt Ocean Institute (@SchmidtOcean) multiple social media platforms with...




vi-control.net




By the way if you follow the link _*My Latest Tracks*_ in my post signature you will find all my latest tracks from the most recent backwards. Thanks again for listening!


----------



## sostenuto

grabauf said:


> Voltage Modular was graphically too busy/confusing for me with all those big elements.
> (That's why I try to sell it at the moment  )
> I prefer the sleek design of Hyperion.


Also doing Hyperion Trial. In case you missed (in U.S). ... Audio Deluxe promo has ABYSS at ~ $77. now (-40%)









Tracktion Abyss


50% Off Sale A visual synthesiser with character Video of Dawesome Abyss Visual Synth A VISUAL SYNTHESIZERAbyss is a visual synthesizer with character and a bit of fairy dust. It brings to you dark, vibrating drones, vivid cinematic pads and rich evolving textures. With Abyss you find instant...




www.audiodeluxe.com


----------



## grabauf

doctoremmet said:


> I say jump


I jumped.


----------



## doctoremmet

Evolving huge pads by Fabian incoming!


----------



## doctoremmet

So! ABYSS is still very fresh and already @Peter V has created a fantastic new update for his synth.

An FM update! I was lucky enough to receive this update before release and play around with it: VERY nice!






And also hot from the press: our own valued forum regular @Databroth has just released his first soundset for ABYSS! Available via Tracktion.






ABYSS is on sale at the moment for $89! Databroth’s soundpack is on sale for $35, and comes with 100 cinematic presets.

Congratulations to the both of you! ❤️


----------



## doctoremmet

… that Empty Core patch imho showcases ABYSS as the best “coloured noise” synth I have ever heard…


----------



## doctoremmet

I was asked recently -and also in light of the newly announced rules pertaining to affiliate links- :

I have NEVER posted any affiliate links on here and I never will. I don’t even know how they work to be honest. All of my endorsements are strictly my own, based on a personal enthusiasm and my completely subjective taste. I do not work for or represent ANY of the vendors I tend to mention on here either. I hope some of you share my enthusiasm and I hope some of the developers I happen to like will sell an extra copy or two of their products. My only personal benefit is I get to interact with the people on this forum, have fun and -in the process- learn a thing or two myself as well. And I buy ALL libraries I use. With my own money.


----------



## Dirtgrain

I take it as proof that I've never seen you recommend something bad. Keep on with the recommendations--I value your opinion.


----------



## doctoremmet

@Databroth is streaming (ABYSS):


----------



## Sonarium

1.2 is a very nice update!


----------



## ir99

If anyone is sitting on the fence with regards purchasing Abyss, I really would recommend trialing (and buying) it. It really is a joy to use, an endlessly musical playground that's as fun as it is useful. The addition of FM is excellent (plus the new presets) and shows a developer that's keen on developing the product, always a very good thing. No affiliation here, just a _very_ happy purchaser!


----------



## antret

Looks like a great update! Haven’t had a chance to download yet. Hopefully today. Thanks for posting those vids!


----------



## doctoremmet

I could literally recreate this patch (I have all plugins used). Anyway, cool use of ABYSS


----------



## Databroth

I'm doing a giveaway for my preset expansion for Abyss
These copies were supplied via Peter from Dawesome, so thank you to Peter for helping me set this up


if you entered in chat, please enter again via comments, chat entries will not count towards the weekend giveaways

thank you everyone for joining


----------



## c0nsilience

Abyss is a great synth: stellar UI, intuitive to use, unique, light CPU usage, super responsive developer. All in all, a very winning combination of what great software should be. Highly recommended!


----------



## grabauf

Abyss is now on sale for 40% off at the Tracktion Halloween sale.


----------



## c0nsilience

grabauf said:


> Abyss is now on sale for 40% off at the Tracktion Halloween sale.


That's such a great deal it's almost criminal!


----------



## heisenberg

In the event you are not on their mailing list, the 40% off is not only for Abyss but all their other products like f.'em & Biotek 2 which have been ballyhooed on this site in the not so distant past.

Hopefully other vendors haven't got to your wallet first, so you can take advantage of these fine, fine sound morphing instruments.


----------



## doctoremmet

f’-em is another contender for synth-of-21


----------



## sostenuto

Voted for _ F.'em into the Abyss _ but all are cool.


----------



## Brian2112

Don’t mean to hijack (especially if its been discussed already), but I love Abyss and F.,‘em but The other new offering is Hyperion which to me is by far the best of the lot. Don’t miss Hyperion. Seriously.


----------



## grabauf

Brian2112 said:


> Don’t mean to hijack (especially if its been discussed already), but I love Abyss and F.,‘em but The other new offering is Hyperion which to me is by far the best of the lot. Don’t miss Hyperion. Seriously.


Absolutely!


----------



## doctoremmet

Brian2112 said:


> Don’t mean to hijack (especially if its been discussed already), but I love Abyss and F.,‘em but The other new offering is Hyperion which to me is by far the best of the lot. Don’t miss Hyperion. Seriously.


Only thing that has held me back is my Voltage Modular and Reaktor (+UA Euroreakt and Toybox Audio modules). Do I really need a third rabbithole…. ?


----------



## doctoremmet

_Classic mono and stereo “digital” and “virtual analog” oscillators with mono or stereo unison detuning and wave-shaping which enables drastic sonic character changes from the basic wave-forms.

Easy to use 4 operator FM (phase modulation with feedback) with 12 algorithms & multi-operator output mix, pre-selected list of useful modulation-operator ratios and master modulation depth control.

Wave-sequencing oscillators with up to 32 steps of oscillator configuration (including pitch offset, waveform, wave-shape depth, unison detunes, balance and level) with smooth cross fading via wave-sequence position modulation – save your own, and load ready made sequences.

Wave-sequenced 4 operator FM – with the same features as classic oscillator wave-sequencing but enabling sequences of 4 operator FM configurations (also with save and load capability).

*Plucked string model with damping, distortion and stereo unison detunes.

Physical modeling flute oscillator with smooth note/pipe configuration transitions.*

Sample playback with looping – can loop single cycle waveforms to create custom oscillator tones.

*Multi-sample (sound font) oscillator enabling import of sfz/sf2 files.*_

Okay. I may need this!


----------



## Brian2112

Hyperion is one of the very few synth that I can get by with presets before I dive into programming (which I have done to a limited, but very satisfying extent). You can go nuts just layering patches by just drag and drop. You wont believe the monster sounds you can get out of the thing with barely any resources used up by just layering stuff. Just try it, it will blow your mind - promise. The beauty is that you don't need to mess with all that crazy, obsessive, modular crap if you don't want to but it's sure there if you need it.


----------



## doctoremmet

Thanks. Has anyone dived into Hyperion’s physical modelling abilities yet? At this point I’d mostly be interested in just that. And does the Sfz import work smoothly from a workflow POV? The actual controls somehow appear a bit ‘fiddly’ to me. But this is likely just my own personal ignorance!


----------



## grabauf

doctoremmet said:


> Only thing that has held me back is my Voltage Modular and Reaktor (+UA Euroreakt and Toybox Audio modules). Do I really need a third rabbithole…. ?


Yes, you do!


----------



## doctoremmet

As a matter of fact I am busy with MSoundFactory at the moment, creating 8OP FM patches, to break away from f.’em for a while. And I can maybe share them here with people who can use the patches in the free MSF version.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> As a matter of fact I am busy with MSoundFactory at the moment, creating 8OP FM patches, to break away from f.’em for a while. And I can maybe share them here with people who can use the patches in the free MSF version.


I think some people might like that very much!


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> I think some people might like that very much!


I have also revived an older project involving importing Vengeful series solo strings and creating MPE patches with them in MSF. If that turns out any interesting results I am going to hand over the patches to Piotrek. Mostly textural pad stuff.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> I have also revived an older project involving importing Vengeful series solo strings and creating MPE patches with them in MSF. If that turns out any interesting results I am going to hand over the patches to Piotrek. Mostly textural pad stuff.that some people in this very post have a deep love for textural pad stuff.


I have more than a suspicion that some people in this very post have rather a fondness for textural pads...


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> I have more than a suspicion that some people in this very post have rather a fondness for textural pads...


Well… I started out importing the Vengeful Sfz files in Equator 2 and made a handful of pretty decent pads and also solo patches with cool crossfades between normale and tremolo articulations. Then I decided to try and see if I could replicate them in MSF. I figured that way the patches (including a brief instruction how to point MSF to the correct Sfz files) could eventually be shared with owners of Vengeful series libraries. Anyway… in typical Temme ADHD fashion one day I saw a ladybug crawling over the window, got distracted and totally abandoned the whole thing and went on to do more -completely different- half-baked shit…


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Well… I started out importing the Vengeful Sfz files in Equator 2 and made a handful of pretty decent pads and also solo patches with cool crossfades between normale and tremolo articulations. Then I decided to try and see if I could replicate them in MSF. I figured that way the patches (including a brief instruction how to point MSF to the correct Sfz files) could eventually be shared with owners of Vengeful series libraries. Anyway… in typical Temme ADHD fashion one day I saw a ladybug crawling over the window, got distracted and totally abandoned the whole thing and went on to do more -completely different- half-baked shit…


Squirrel!


----------



## Rmgatl

Probably buying Abyss. 
Thanks for flagging Hyperion as well…looked at it, interesting programming approach. Listening to it, not sure it adds much for me beyond what I have with Komplete, Omnisphere and Pigments 3. One side of my brain is telling me to finish more fully learning how to use what I already own


----------



## doctoremmet

Rmgatl said:


> Probably buying Abyss.
> Thanks for flagging Hyperion as well…looked at it, interesting programming approach. Listening to it, not sure it adds much for me beyond what I have with Komplete, Omnisphere and Pigments 3. One side of my brain is telling me to finish more fully learning how to use what I already own


ABYSS is a pretty unique synth, both in the way how it lets you make cool pads and other sounds quickly and in a fun way… and in how it sounds. I repeat myself, but hey _repitition legitimizes_: it particularly excels at creating beautiful coloured noises.


----------



## Rmgatl

doctoremmet said:


> ABYSS is a pretty unique synth, both in the way how it lets you cool pads and other sounds quickly and in a fun way… and in how it sounds. I repeat myself, but hey _repitition legitimizes_: it particularly excels at creating beautiful coloured noises.


Thanks, my sense exactly - blessed to have some good stuff, trying to be more selective going forwar.

Bought Sequis on sale recently - that was another one that passed the uniqueness filter.


----------



## sostenuto

Sequis @ ABYSS - current Sale cost ?? Ready ! 🤑


----------



## Rmgatl

Close…Sequis on sale for $149 Vs $97 for Abyss.


----------



## doctoremmet

Rmgatl said:


> $97 for


$77


----------



## rroc

Jumped on Abyss and really like it!


----------



## doctoremmet

It is a fantastic instrument. Glad you like it!


----------



## rroc

Gotta love that mix of simple UI and endless flexibility. My only little complaint is that I wish I had more control over the initial sounds. Let me mix some OSCs! But it's just wonderful how easy it makes it put the Seaboard Block to good use!


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> It is a fantastic instrument. Glad you like it!


Needed disk storage on order. Back to Traktion 40% Sale now. Held off but now wrestling with very different choice _ Abyss or Biotek 2. Maybe influenced 'unnecessarily' by Shadow Fragments + other Expansions ? Veeeery different choices ! 🔁 ___ price points as well.


----------



## doctoremmet

Well, FWIW, Biotek 2 is an excellent synth as well. Its FM capabilities are awesome, it is a close sibling of f.-‘em in a number of ways: same developer, grade A FM, really really deep modmatrix, and it is even capable of frequency modulating sample oscillators - something f.-‘em doesn’t do. Lovely pretty unknown but very good synthesizer. Unique concept.


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Well, FWIW, Biotek 2 is an excellent synth as well. Its FM capabilities are awesome, it is a close sibling of f.-‘em in a number of ways: same developer, grade A FM, really really deep modmatrix, and it is even capable of frequence modulating sample oscillators - something f.-‘em doesn’t do. Lovely pretty unknown but very good synthesizer. Unique concept.


Helps ! _ as always. Not necessarily with these two, but F.'em lurked, and now _ not so much. THX !


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Helps ! _ as always. Not necessarily with these two, but F.'em lurked, and now _ not so much. THX !


If you want GREAT FM AND granular, I’d argue get Biotek 2.


----------



## doctoremmet

Cool! ABYSS is on Cameron’s “best of 2021” list:




(as is Cypher 2, which indeed is also great)


----------



## doctoremmet

Also: ABYSS is $64.50 right now.









Dawesome Abyss


Abyss is a visual synthesiser with character and a bit of fairy dust. It brings to you dark, vibrating drones, vivid cinematic pads and rich evolving textures. With Abyss you find instant inspiration for your music and sound design projects.




marketplace.tracktion.com


----------



## doctoremmet

And over at JRRshop:


----------



## rroc

doctoremmet said:


> Well, FWIW, Biotek 2 is an excellent synth as well. Its FM capabilities are awesome, it is a close sibling of f.-‘em in a number of ways: same developer, grade A FM, really really deep modmatrix, and it is even capable of frequency modulating sample oscillators - something f.-‘em doesn’t do. Lovely pretty unknown but very good synthesizer. Unique concept.


I was just in the middle of deciding not to get biotek. You're not helping...


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## grabauf

doctoremmet said:


>




I'm listening to it at the moment while doing the chores.


----------



## doctoremmet

grabauf said:


> I'm listening to it at the moment while doing the chores.


Same!


----------



## doctoremmet

New year / new great @Databroth video



and ABYSS remains all kinds of great. I wonder what @Peter V has in store for us in 2022…


----------



## grabauf

S1gns of L1fe also is a fan of Abyss.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Peter V

doctoremmet said:


> ABYSS remains all kinds of great. I wonder what @Peter V has in store for us in 2022…


I am currently working on a new plugin ... you will be able to treat your samples like never before!


----------



## Databroth

absolutely can't wait for this


----------



## Bee_Abney

Yes please!


----------



## doctoremmet

(D)awesome news Peter! ❤️


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

Peter V said:


> I am currently working on a new plugin ... you will be able to treat your samples like never before!


Always curious to see what you will come up with next Peter!


----------



## Fleer

Come to mama!


----------



## grabauf

Here's a little teaser from the livestream. I'm excited.


----------



## Bee_Abney

grabauf said:


> Here's a little teaser from the livestream. I'm excited.




Just for a moment, the screen clearly gave it away: N.


----------



## Bee_Abney

I love the idea of Novum. Not the colours so much, if that is part of the user interface. But the idea of verticle separation and re-editing. It is, of course, what all those spectral plugins deal with, but this is a new application of it. I don't know how good its results will sound, but I'm eager to find out.

In a way, this is a lot like subtractive synthesis with a sampler as the oscillator. Except the sound elements are not filtered out at some dB level, they are sliced off and rearranged. Basically, spectral grains.


----------



## c0nsilience

It looks inspiring, Peter!

On first blush, it reminds me of some of the best elements I’ve seen in granular plugins and Iris 2 taken to an entirely different level, in a different universe. 🙂


----------



## ir99

...this is actually what I was hoping for, in a sense. I love Abyss but there's been a part of me wishing that there could be some form of sample incorporation into it. I know Novum is a different beast to that notion but it's not a million miles away. 

Anyway, this is very exciting! Peter - any ideas when it might be released? I can start saving my pennies...


----------



## Fleer

Nil novum sub sole? Quite the opposite


----------



## Bee_Abney

Fleer said:


> Nil novum sub sole? Quite the opposite


Thank you, Ecclesiastes!

*אֵין כָּל חָדָשׁ תַּחַת הַשָּׁמֶשׁ*


----------



## creativeforge

Bee_Abney said:


> Just for a moment, the screen clearly gave it away: N.


I noticed that too... hmmmm... N... Muvon!


----------



## Bee_Abney

creativeforge said:


> I noticed that too... hmmmm... N... Muvon!



We've got to move on, N ain't coming.


----------



## creativeforge

Bee_Abney said:


> We've got to move on, N ain't coming.


It's time somebody admits and we face the truth: WE made it all up. But it embodies the sum of all our hopes... so maybe some day a library or plugin will by crowned "THEE N"...


----------



## Bee_Abney

creativeforge said:


> It's time somebody admits and we face the truth: WE made it all up. But it embodies the sum of all our hopes... so maybe some day a library or plugin will by crowned "THEE N"...



They have drugs for that, these days.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> They have drugs for that, these days.




They?


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> They?



Yes, the 'They' I have to go back to as I've run out!

Buying happiness, one stolen TV at a time.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Yes, the 'They' I have to go back to as I've run out!
> 
> Buying happiness, one stolen TV at a time.




Amateur………

petty theft ? try thinking larger, pretend you’re a lawyer or politician…………..bigger actions yield bigger results!
Deeper pockets and long term bliss!


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Amateur………
> 
> petty theft ? try thinking larger, pretend you’re a lawyer or politician…………..bigger actions yield bigger results!
> Deeper pockets and long term bliss!



Yes, but too much talking.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Yes, but too much talking.




and somehow too much talking is suddenly an issue for Sweet Bee? 🤪

p.s. I can’t imagine you as someone who doesn’t ❤️ talking,talking,talking……. and the sound of your own VOICE! 😘


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> and somehow too much talking is suddenly an issue for Sweet Bee? 🤪
> 
> p.s. I can’t imagine you as someone who doesn’t ❤️ talking,talking,talking……. and the sound of your own VOICE! 😘



I...

Well, now... 

I have nothing to say to that.


----------



## KarlHeinz

On sale now at pluginboutique, I have followed the posts about it for a while but not the prices (beginning from intro) so I wonder if the around 70 bucks now is a real good deal ?


----------



## Bee_Abney

KarlHeinz said:


> On sale now at pluginboutique, I have followed the posts about it for a while but not the prices (beginning from intro) so I wonder if the around 70 bucks now is a real good deal ?



About 50% off is, I think, as low as I have seen Abyss. So, it's not a bad time. But there has been a November-ish sale at that price, so it could come round again.


----------



## doctoremmet

KarlHeinz said:


> On sale now at pluginboutique, I have followed the posts about it for a while but not the prices (beginning from intro) so I wonder if the around 70 bucks now is a real good deal ?


I bought it over at JRRshop around introduction time. I think around BF it dropped 10 bucks lower than this.


----------



## doctoremmet

Pretty sure this has been the lowest price so far (when purchasing at JRR always enter ‘GROUP’ in the coupon / voucher field - it often works!)


----------



## Cepheus

There is this the announcement in this Tracktion clip of a new synth by Dawesome: Novum


Novum is sample manipulation synth, that seems to extract transients from samples. I wonder if the tech is somewhat related to Eventide Physion. If I understand Peter right, Novum can generate content for Abyss. Hope this synth also sports the great MPE implementation like Abyss. Looking foreward to this.


----------



## Peter V

Cepheus said:


> Novum is sample manipulation synth, that seems to extract transients from samples. I wonder if the tech is somewhat related to Eventide Physion. If I understand Peter right, Novum can generate content for Abyss. Hope this synth also sports the great MPE implementation like Abyss. Looking foreward to this.


Sure thing, NOVUM will have same MPE support as Abyss! 

The engine is not related to Eventide Physion. While Physion uses only transient information, Novum is based on advanced spectral technology: the spectral content of the samples is analysed and the sample gets decomposed into 6 layers. If these 6 layers are played back at the same time you get your original sample. But now you can edit / realtime control each of the layers separately, eg you could use MPE to modulate the levels of each layer. Or you can draw a new envelope for this layer. Any transients in your material are of course also handled by Novum, but the approach of Novum goes _much_ further. 

There will be videos showcasing how easy and fun it is to take just one arbitrary sample and make an interesting, nuanced and playable instrument from it.


----------



## doctoremmet

Hi all. I have renamed this thread so we can use it to discuss all things Dawesome. ABYSS, NOVUM and who knows what’s in the pipeline.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> Sure thing, NOVUM will have same MPE support as Abyss!
> 
> The engine is not related to Eventide Physion. While Physion uses only transient information, Novum is based on advanced spectral technology: the spectral content of the samples is analysed and the sample gets decomposed into 6 layers. If these 6 layers are played back at the same time you get your original sample. But now you can edit / realtime control each of the layers separately, eg you could use MPE to modulate the levels of each layer. Or you can draw a new envelope for this layer. Any transients in your material are of course also handled by Novum, but the approach of Novum goes _much_ further.
> 
> There will be videos showcasing how easy and fun it is to take just one arbitrary sample and make an interesting, nuanced and playable instrument from it.


I should like to buy this very much, please and thank you.


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

Update (22.06.04): please excuse the shameless bragging  but in the last 2 weeks around 5000 additional viewers have watched *My Glass Octopus* on YouTube. It is now fast approaching *37000* views. I'm honestly baffled but very very happy!! 

*Thanks to @Peter V at Dawsome for creating ABYSS* which is predominantly featured in my music for this Smidth Ocean Institute video  as well as many of my other tracks such as *Sarma. *ABYSS is a fantastic and very unique product and I expect no less of NOVUM and anything Peter has in mind for the future.


----------



## doctoremmet

@Peter V I am very excited about the newly announced second Dawesome instrument Peter. Any indication of when we can expect its release (give or take)?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Update (22.02.16): please excuse the shameless bragging  but in the last 2 weeks around 5000 additional viewers have watched *My Glass Octopus* on YouTube. It is now fast approaching *11000* views. I'm honestly baffled but very very happy!!
> 
> *Thanks to @Peter V at Dawsome for creating ABYSS* which is predominantly featured in my music for this Smidth Ocean Institute video  as well as many of my other tracks such as *Sarma. *ABYSS is a fantastic and very unique product and I expect no less of NOVUM and anything Peter has in mind for the future.


It's a great piece of music that works so well with the video and really heightens the experience of watching it. Very well done!!


----------



## doctoremmet

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Update (22.02.16): please excuse the shameless bragging  but in the last 2 weeks around 5000 additional viewers have watched *My Glass Octopus* on YouTube. It is now fast approaching *11000* views. I'm honestly baffled but very very happy!!
> 
> *Thanks to @Peter V at Dawsome for creating ABYSS* which is predominantly featured in my music for this Smidth Ocean Institute video  as well as many of my other tracks such as *Sarma. *ABYSS is a fantastic and very unique product and I expect no less of NOVUM and anything Peter has in mind for the future.


Well deserved Tatiana, and what a fantastic showcase for both your many musical (AND sound design) talents and ABYSS!


----------



## antret

Like always... a little late to this party! (Every now and again I poke my head out from under the rocks!). This new instrument seems like a gem. 

I have/had a Max4Live device (drawing a blank on the name) that took sound sources and separated them in the spectral domain where you could them re-configure the spectral bits or just 'pull out' the bits you found interesting for further processing. That was a little clunky to use, so it didn't get much use from me. This seems to be in that vein, with a much slicker interface and workflow. I haven't watched all the vids yet, but this will end up on the must buy list I'm sure.


----------



## gamma-ut

antret said:


> I have/had a Max4Live device (drawing a blank on the name) that took sound sources and separated them in the spectral domain where you could them re-configure the spectral bits or just 'pull out' the bits you found interesting for further processing.


Factorsynth?


----------



## antret

gamma-ut said:


> Factorsynth?


Yes! Looks like a V2 is out as well. https://www.jjburred.com/software/factorsynth/index.html


----------



## Bee_Abney

I really need to get Max at some point.


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> Sure thing, NOVUM will have same MPE support as Abyss!
> 
> The engine is not related to Eventide Physion. While Physion uses only transient information, Novum is based on advanced spectral technology: the spectral content of the samples is analysed and the sample gets decomposed into 6 layers. If these 6 layers are played back at the same time you get your original sample. But now you can edit / realtime control each of the layers separately, eg you could use MPE to modulate the levels of each layer. Or you can draw a new envelope for this layer. Any transients in your material are of course also handled by Novum, but the approach of Novum goes _much_ further.
> 
> There will be videos showcasing how easy and fun it is to take just one arbitrary sample and make an interesting, nuanced and playable instrument from it.


This is super interesting!

The idea reminds me a bit of Iris by Izotope but I feel like your approach of having different layers with different playback speeds and so on could produce some really interesting stuff.

Any ETA for the release?

BTW how would it work for sound designers that wanted to distribute presets with samples? Would samples be saved in the preset file? Would there be something like "collect samples"?


----------



## Peter V

I find this forum amazing - so many interesting thoughts and questions - thank you all for your interest! 

*Release date*: 
I plan to release NOVUM in April. All the main systems are running stable and efficient - so the remaining work is good to plan. Also Sound Designers will start soon to work on the content. 

*Sample management*:
TL, DR: yes, the NOVUM sample management supports workflows for library sound designers, composers working on the same project or users who don't want to worry about how and where sample data is stored. 

The way how samples are managed is extremely important! I remember once I was in the middle of a project where I used a lot of professional sampling libraries. First my computer forced me to do an update, then the sample player now longer found the samples and I had to spend a whole day locating samples - that was a nerve wracking experience. Hence I spend a lot of time and thought to make sample management simple and convenient in NOVUM: normally samples will not be stored as part of the patch. Novum makes it super fun and easy to mix and match timbres and envelopes from various samples, hence these get re-used so that they eat up storage on your drive only once. Also some DAWs are slow when loading bigger data. However, there is a setting to make Novum store sample data as part of the patch itself. This is especially when you work on a project on multiple computers, eg because more than one person works on this. For sound designers who want to create there own pack there is simple way how you can have the best of both worlds - the samples are shared between the patches, but all the samples you need for your pack are in one folder. This will be explained in detail in the manual. 

*Factor Synth*: 
You are right, NOVUM uses a related approach for the decomposition. FactorSynth uses something thats called "Nonnegative Matrix Factorisation (short: NMF)" that was initially developed for speech processing and automatic transcription of notes from audio. There has been a lot of machine learning research over the last decade around NMF and there are more than hundred different algorithms published - its a very exciting field as it applies machine learning on spectral audio. 
For NOVUM I spend >6 months of research to improve the algorithms, so that they are perfectly suited for the usage in a creative sampler / synthesiser. 

*MPE*:
NOVUM has full MPE support. The modulation system of NOVUM is a refinement of the one used in Abyss. Basically it works the same, but in NOVUM you will see only those modulation sources that are actually used in the patch (in Abyss you always see all of the modulations). Each modulation source has its own edit area, so there is more space for editing and controls. 
Many parameters in NOVUM can be modulated per layer. But at the same time you don't want to make every modulation / change 6 times to affect all layers. So these parameters have a "link" symbol. Normally this is activated and hence the slider works for all of the layers simultaneously. When you want to have separate settings you can click to de-activate the link for this parameter and now you have full freedom to modulate and change this parameter per layer. 

*FX*: 
Novum has 6 FX slots, you can select whatever FX you want and reorder. The synth section has two outs where you can set pan / volume separately and feed it into separate chains in the FX section - if you want. Its very simple and visual to do this - no complex "routing". Its a fun feature, as you can modulate the out sections of the synth per voice. In this way you can eg control the send amount the the reverb (or any other FX) via MPE. 

Any more questions? Keep asking!


----------



## Peter V

When you have imported a sample you can select one of the timbres and get a "flower" of variations to choose from. Simply click any petal and the timbre gets exchanged ...


----------



## doctoremmet

Boy, am I excited about this one Peter. It is well thought out, based on your own experiences as a composer, comes with excellent MPE capabilities and on top of all that the GUI design looks brilliant. Can’t wait to start making music with this one!


----------



## Peter V

Or you exchange timbres from other samples: here I used the violine sample (from the previous screenshot), took a sample from a bell and replaced all violine-timbres with the bell-timbres. Note that the expressive playing of the violine sample is maintained, but now it sounds like played on a huge church bell. This was by done with one drag-and-drop.


----------



## Peter V

In order to make this a patch that can be played with expression I reduced the playback speed and modulate the playback position via Polyphonic Aftertouch (Pressure). Now I can control the expressiveness of the original (Violine) sample with my (MPE) controller and timbre of a church bell. 
Of course I can modify the envelope(s) simply by drawing if I want to tweak further.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> In order to make this a patch that can be played with expression I reduced the playback speed and modulate the playback position via Polyphonic Aftertouch (Pressure). Now I can control the expressiveness of the original (Violine) sample with my (MPE) controller and timbre of a church bell.
> Of course I can modify the envelope(s) simply by drawing if I want to tweak further.



Bit of a long shot, but... If I load samples of my singing and Tom Waits, can it make me sing like a chain-smoking troll?

Don't worry, forget it. I already sound like that.


----------



## Peter V

Here I took a different road: I chose the complex rhythmic pattern from a Moog DFAM sample and drag-and-dropped it on the previous patch. Now the bell sound follows the temporal evolution of the Moog sample. I then replaced two of the timbres taken from an orchestral flute and clarinet phrase. With a bit of shimmer reverb I now have a pulsating mysterious bell / woodwind pad. 

By the way: the white circles in the waveform display the grain positions - so that you can always see whats going on.


----------



## Peter V

Bee_Abney said:


> Bit of a long shot, but... If I load samples of my singing and Tom Waits, can it make me sing like a chain-smoking troll?
> 
> Don't worry, forget it. I already sound like that.


No one can sing like Tom Waits, except of Tom Waits (and maybe Chuck Norris)! 

What I'd do is take your vocal sample and layer it with NOVUM. In NOVUM I'd add noise to the timbres or replace them with some noises taken from any source, or maybe even some specific raspy spoken words of Tom Waits. In this way you maintain the uniqueness of your voice, but give it a more raspy quality. I assume this will involve some experimentation and tweaking to get it sound great. Probably it will be easier to get very interesting results than to fool Tom Waits.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> No one can sing like Tom Waits, except of Tom Waits (and maybe Chuck Norris)!
> 
> What I'd do is take your vocal sample and layer it with NOVUM. In NOVUM I'd add noise to the timbres or replace them with some noises taken from any source, or maybe even some specific raspy spoken words of Tom Waits. In this way you maintain the uniqueness of your voice, but give it a more raspy quality. I assume this will involve some experimentation and tweaking to get it sound great. Probably it will be easier to get very interesting results than to fool Tom Waits.



Nobody fools Tom Waits. Except Chuck Norris.

Thanks, that sounds like a lot of fun to mess about with and see what turns up.


----------



## ir99

Absolutely can't wait for this. I've had Factorsynth for some time and it's been fascinating but a little, shall we say, 'erratic' to use. Of course, that could be my lack of knowledge/ability and, again of course, it's resulted in many happy and useful accidents and I'd heartily recommend it for those who haven't tried it. But, NOVUM looks it might very well be one of the VSTs of the year in the same way that Abyss added a whole new dimension for me. Dawsome indeed! Keep up the wonderful work and those thrilling ideas flowing!


----------



## ir99

Bee_Abney said:


> Bit of a long shot, but... If I load samples of my singing and Tom Waits, can it make me sing like a chain-smoking troll?
> 
> Don't worry, forget it. I already sound like that.


...you must try this and share the results.


----------



## doctoremmet

ir99 said:


> NOVUM looks it might very well be one of the VSTs of the year in the same way that Abyss added a whole new dimension for me. Dawsome indeed! Keep up the wonderful work and those thrilling ideas flowing!


Indeed it does.


----------



## doctoremmet

Peter V said:


> Here I took a different road: I chose the complex rhythmic pattern from a Moog DFAM sample and drag-and-dropped it on the previous patch. Now the bell sound follows the temporal evolution of the Moog sample. I then replaced two of the timbres taken from an orchestral flute and clarinet phrase. With a bit of shimmer reverb I now have a pulsating mysterious bell / woodwind pad.
> 
> By the way: the white circles in the waveform display the grain positions - so that you can always see whats going on.


I now demand audio examples of this very patch!


----------



## Digivolt

Novum looks good but how does it sound ? I'd rather sound demo's instead of pictures to get an idea of what it's actually doing to the samples loaded


----------



## doctoremmet

Digivolt said:


> Novum looks good but how does it sound ? I'd rather sound demo's instead of pictures to get an idea of what it's actually doing to the samples loaded


Peter will post those when he’s ready


----------



## Cepheus

The looks of this this synths are already good, must be one of the prettiest GUI’s around. Did a bit of reading into Nonnegative Matrix Factorisation and how you can apply that one images. Would love to see some examples of how you can dissect sound with and what kind a of resolution achieve of characteristics one can extract from sound. All the elements from a drum loop, the aspects of a bow on a violin, chiff of flute? Very excited to see what Peter is cooking 😊


----------



## Bee_Abney

Now I want to use some really strong filters to isolate frequencies in some samples, print the results then experiment with layering in different ways to see what I get.

I've done than a little before, by trying some multi band morphing. But it's worth a revisit.


----------



## Sonarium

A treat for all Abyss lovers and NKS friends can be found here:









NKS User Library - Page 4


The previous VST2 version has a user library created for it, but the switch to VST3 makes this difficult unless you're using VST3Shell or something similar.




community.native-instruments.com





There you can find a link to an NKS compatibility kit for Abyss.


----------



## D Halgren

Any news on Novum?

@Peter V


----------



## c0nsilience

Yep, I’m curious about this as well


----------



## Peter V

Thx for the interest! The beta phase started two weeks ago and I am slowly ramping up beta testers. 






Next week I will start posting some sound examples here. Does anyone has an interesting / challenging sample that you want me to play with in Novum? Simply mail me: peter at dawesomemusic dot com


----------



## c0nsilience

Peter, I would love to allocate some time to beta testing this, should you have a slot available.


----------



## SupremeFist

Peter V said:


> Thx for the interest! The beta phase started two weeks ago and I am slowly ramping up beta testers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next week I will start posting some sound examples here. Does anyone has an interesting / challenging sample that you want me to play with in Novum? Simply mail me: peter at dawesomemusic dot com


Oh god I'm going to have to buy anything that contains a preset called "Alien Frog Concert".


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> Thx for the interest! The beta phase started two weeks ago and I am slowly ramping up beta testers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next week I will start posting some sound examples here. Does anyone has an interesting / challenging sample that you want me to play with in Novum? Simply mail me: peter at dawesomemusic dot com


Hi @Peter V! I emailed a sample to you. It's layers of noise with a slight element of being tuned to A4. I aimed to cover a lot of frequencies. I thought it might be the sort of thing that Novum could make something (much better) of; sorry for the wasted time if not!
Bee


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Hi @Peter V! I emailed a sample to you. It's layers of noise with a slight element of being tuned to A4. I aimed to cover a lot of frequencies. I thought it might be the sort of thing that Novum could make something (much better) of; sorry for the wasted time if not!
> Bee


........... never 'wasted' maybe somewhat _diluted_, _diverted_ ??


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> ........... never 'wasted' maybe somewhat _diluted_, _diverted_ ??



Drained and destroyed?


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

Update (22.04.14) : more shameless bragging...  Since the last update below my track *My Glass Octopus* based on Peter's *ABYSS* has reached and surpassed the *27000 views* mark on YouTube and still shows no sign of slowing down. 



Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Update (22.02.16): please excuse the shameless bragging  but in the last 2 weeks around 5000 additional viewers have watched *My Glass Octopus* on YouTube. It is now fast approaching *11000* views. I'm honestly baffled but very very happy!!
> 
> *Thanks to @Peter V at Dawsome for creating ABYSS* which is predominantly featured in my music for this Smidth Ocean Institute video  as well as many of my other tracks such as *Sarma. *ABYSS is a fantastic and very unique product and I expect no less of NOVUM and anything Peter has in mind for the future.


----------



## Fleer

Peter V said:


> Thx for the interest! The beta phase started two weeks ago and I am slowly ramping up beta testers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next week I will start posting some sound examples here. Does anyone has an interesting / challenging sample that you want me to play with in Novum? Simply mail me: peter at dawesomemusic dot com


Will NOVUM be offered through Tracktion like Abyss?


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Bit of a long shot, but... If I load samples of my singing and Tom Waits, can it make me sing like a chain-smoking troll?
> 
> Don't worry, forget it. I already sound like that.


Would we actually be able to hear a difference?


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Would we actually be able to hear a difference?



It couldn't make me sound worse, at least!


----------



## kgdrum

Speaking of Tom Waits around 1974 I saw him in concert he was the opening act for Zappa and the Mothers of Invention & of course he was excellent. He was performing solo if I remember correctly acoustic guitar and that beautiful voice,it was quite an interesting contrast to Zappa and his band.


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Speaking of Tom Waits around 1974 I saw him in concert he was the opening act for Zappa and the Mothers of Invention & of course he was excellent. He was performing solo if I remember correctly acoustic guitar and that beautiful voice,it was quite an interesting contrast to Zappa and his band.



That must have been quite the experience, at a very different stage of his development. Did you ever watch Jarmusch's Coffee and Cigarettes? There's a great segment in there with Waits and Iggy Pop.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> That must have been quite the experience, at a very different stage of his development. Did you ever watch Jarmusch's Coffee and Cigarettes? There's a great segment in their with Waits and Iggy Pop.




No I haven’t kept up with him as much as I should he’s a fabulous artist.


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> No I haven’t kept up with him as much as I should he’s a fabulous artist.


----------



## Peter V

Fleer said:


> Will NOVUM be offered through Tracktion like Abyss?


Yes, it will.


----------



## davidson

Tom Waits always sounds like some super dark 18+ disney music to me


----------



## Bee_Abney

davidson said:


> Tom Waits always sounds like some super dark 18+ disney music to me



I'd say that's a pretty fair description!


----------



## garaughty

Peter V said:


> Thx for the interest! The beta phase started two weeks ago and I am slowly ramping up beta testers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next week I will start posting some sound examples here. Does anyone has an interesting / challenging sample that you want me to play with in Novum? Simply mail me: peter at dawesomemusic dot com


This looks absolutely brilliant... can't wait to see/hear some demos !


----------



## Peter V

Bee_Abney sent me a sample "Layered Noise A4" (thank you!) 
View attachment Layered Noise A4.mp3


I spent about an hour in Novum to create some patches from this sample, and then made a little track using only these patches. _Everything_ you hear is made from the one sample, in Novum. 
Well, I added a touch of compression and eq on the BD and on the master. 
View attachment Beems.mp3


----------



## Bee_Abney

I can duly attest to having him sent the monstrosity that is the source sample, and to being absolutely floored by what Peter could to do with it using Novum!


----------



## Peter V

The "Stringy Pad" is basically playing back the noisy sample and uses the comb filter to make it a string like sound. In this way the noise acts as the bow of a stringed instrument. I added a good amount of reverb and a slight bit of phaser to make it sound more like an ensemble than a solo instrument.


----------



## Peter V

When I imported the sample in Novum it created 6 different timbral layers. For the "Doom Bell" in the very beginning I simply draw some envelopes for each of the layers and again used the comb filter, this time with different settings to make it sound more metallic. Also the granular playback is jumping around randomly. In this way there are random excitements of the comb filter, creating the bell like sound. Its really just 2-3 sliders to shape the sound!


----------



## Peter V

For the BD i drag and dropped the envelopes from a snare or piano sample (I don't remember). A second ADSR modulates the pitch, and its filtered with a lowpass and some distortion.


----------



## Peter V

The hollow pad at the very end has been done with the "Timbre Flower": in Novum each layer consists of a timbre, that has an envelope. However, you can tweak (or exchange) the timbre. Here I took a timbral variation for each of the 6 layers - you can see it as the timbres now show blue. Again: its just a few clicks, and a very efficient way to make a noisy sample "tuned", but keep the nice and rich texture of the original.


----------



## doctoremmet

Amazing @Peter V - very impressive. Are we still on schedule for an april release? Can’t wait to throw a whole bunch of samples at this instrument! I can imagine Bee’s new hardware pocketrecorder is filled to the brim with source material as well!

I have just managed to attach a little Røde mic to my iPhone in order to record some field noises as well. I was walking near the Groningen railroad track yesterday and couldn’t help but notice that the sounds of a train braking are terrific! Catch you later!


----------



## doctoremmet

I SO hope Peter and Tracktion will encourage Bee to create an entire soundpack for NOVUM. This is just a joy to watch:






I just want to put Bee Doom Bells in everything I do from now on.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Amazing @Peter V - very impressive. Are we still on schedule for an april release? Can’t wait to throw a whole bunch of samples at this instrument! I can imagine Bee’s new hardware pocketrecorder is filled to the brim with source material as well!
> 
> I have just managed to attach a little Røde mic to my iPhone in order to record some field noises as well. I was walking near the Groningen railroad track yesterday and couldn’t help but notice that the sounds of a train braking are terrific! Catch you later!


Funny you should mention trains. I'm going to be looking for my first chance to visit one of the historical steam railways we have around these parts! I quite fancy a steam engine pad or two made with Novum.


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> Funny you should mention trains. I'm going to be looking for my first chance to visit one of the historical steam railways we have around these parts! I quite fancy a steam engine pad or two made with Novum.


I wasn’t kidding. Those iron-on-iron train brakes sounds are fan-tas-tic and so are the hissing noises of steam engines!


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> I SO hope Peter and Tracktion will encourage Bee to create an entire soundpack for NOVUM. This is just a joy to watch:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to put Bee Doom Bells in everything I do from now on.


You may need Peter's ingenuity to perform the alchemy correctly! But, to be honest, I think that there could be a lot of a great sounds coming out from Novum for every user.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> I SO hope Peter and Tracktion will encourage Bee to create an entire soundpack for NOVUM. This is just a joy to watch:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to put Bee Doom Bells in everything I do from now on.


Just wait for what I might do with a good bass line. Bee Do Bee Do Dum Doo.


----------



## doctoremmet

I may do a cover version of this 1990s gem, with slightly altered lyrics, in honour of the release of your first NOVUM soundpack - with nothing but Bee presets.


----------



## Peter V

Bee_Abney said:


> You may need Peter's ingenuity to perform the alchemy correctly! But, to be honest, I think that there could be a lot of a great sounds coming out from Novum for every user.


Like its predecessor Abyss: Novum was designed from ground up to be intuitive, simple and fun. My main alpha users are my two kids, 9 and 11. They LOVE to play with my analog synths, and my offer was always: "Give this version of Novum a try. If you prefer you can at anytime switch to the analog synths." It was a tough challenge to create Novum such that they would play with it for hours, not being lured into using their beloved gear (or doing any other stuff).


----------



## doctoremmet

Children with access to musical instruments are blessed. They are also definitely my preferred alpha testers! Especially for samplers.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> I may do a cover version of this 1990s gem, with slightly altered lyrics, in honour of the release of your first NOVUM soundpack - with nothing but Bee presets.



What a great example of the wide pout in that picture! It's not quite there yet, but over the years the wide pout developed into the duck face. Evolution - it's not about things getting better; it's about adapting to the circumstances.

Anyway, I remember the lovely Ms Boo very well. She had a real energy to her and brought some much needed energy and non-violent aggressive punch to the pop chart of the day. She's a great example of a one-hit wonder who actually has had a life-long very successful career as a performer, album artist and song writer for both herself and others. She's a cool cat working in a much scoffed at industry with intelligence and musical sense. (I'm going to have to listen to some Slayer now to get the taste of those words out of my mouth...)

If anyone can turn a piece of lively 'disposable' pop into a showcase for sound design and ingenuity, it's @doctoremmet!


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> She's a cool cat


I love her and that song is actually really good. The use of the funky drummer loop is really creatively done and her flow is very good. The “middle eight” (is it called that on rap records?) is my favourite part.

Hadn’t noticed the early stages of the duck face yet!


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> If anyone can turn a piece of lively 'disposable' pop into a showcase for sound design and ingenuity, it's @doctoremmet!


Challenge accepted


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm going to have to listen to some Slayer now to get the taste of those words out of my mouth...


----------



## doctoremmet

doctoremmet said:


> The use of the funky drummer loop is really creatively done and her flow is very good.


Oh, and that bass is definitely some variant of the infamous TX81Z preset Sol Bass / Lately Bass - one of the most (ab)used presets of the 90s. Which is a synth. Just like the Dawesome instruments.

Annnnnd: on topic again.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


>



That was the very track I was thinking of! I'm actually not a huge Slayer fan, but they are always my go to for extreme death metal thanks to Tori Amos's cover, inspired, apparently, by menstruation as a feminine rejoinder to male violence. Don't @ me, bro, it's not my cover!


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Children with access to musical instruments are blessed. They are also definitely my preferred alpha testers! Especially for samplers.



So, aside from the fact that Herbie Hancock is a great musician, the two things that stood out to me here were first, that computers can be seen a a bright and fertile ground for developing synthetic and sample-based music, and not just as a poorer and more stable or portable/affordable version of analog gear and acoustic instruments.

Second, that Herbie Hancock really knows how to talk to children. I love children. They're alright by me. But I am absolutely useless with them. When the eager boy kept telling him what to do, he just kept everything right on track without ever saying 'no' or ending the co-operative participation. Me, I was once at a wedding reception and this young girl started talking to me, and kept telling me what to do or talk about (go here, taste this, answer this question), and I didn't know how to just say no or move on politely. Another, slightly older child, had to come over and rescue me! My hero!


----------



## grabauf

Peter V said:


> Bee_Abney sent me a sample "Layered Noise A4" (thank you!)
> View attachment Layered Noise A4.mp3
> 
> 
> I spent about an hour in Novum to create some patches from this sample, and then made a little track using only these patches. _Everything_ you hear is made from the one sample, in Novum.
> Well, I added a touch of compression and eq on the BD and on the master.
> View attachment Beems.mp3



Impressive! I can't wait to get my hands on it.


----------



## Bee_Abney

grabauf said:


> Impressive! I can't wait to get my hands on it.


I'm just assuming that you are talking about my sample and not Novum. So, thank you very much!


----------



## grabauf

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm just assuming that you are talking about my sample and not Novum. So, thank you very much!


Of course both of it.


----------



## Pier

Just bought a contact mic. Will be great to put weird noises into Novum!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> Just bought a contact mic. Will be great to put weird noises into Novum!


I'd like to hear how you get on with it - literally, if possible!


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> I'd like to hear how you get on with it - literally, if possible!


Of course!

I'm still waiting for it though...


----------



## SupremeFist

Peter V said:


> Bee_Abney sent me a sample "Layered Noise A4" (thank you!)
> View attachment Layered Noise A4.mp3
> 
> 
> I spent about an hour in Novum to create some patches from this sample, and then made a little track using only these patches. _Everything_ you hear is made from the one sample, in Novum.
> Well, I added a touch of compression and eq on the BD and on the master.
> View attachment Beems.mp3


This is unreasonably good. Much want Novum plz.


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> Bee_Abney sent me a sample "Layered Noise A4" (thank you!)
> View attachment Layered Noise A4.mp3
> 
> 
> I spent about an hour in Novum to create some patches from this sample, and then made a little track using only these patches. _Everything_ you hear is made from the one sample, in Novum.
> Well, I added a touch of compression and eq on the BD and on the master.
> View attachment Beems.mp3


Fantastic stuff Peter!

I've been playing a lot with the comb filter in Zebra lately which is quite amazing. Will there be more options in Novum other than feedback and frequency?

I'm asking because in Zebra there are multiple modes that use more parameters and can produce some wild results.


----------



## Peter V

Pier said:


> Fantastic stuff Peter!
> 
> I've been playing a lot with the comb filter in Zebra lately which is quite amazing. Will there be more options in Novum other than feedback and frequency?
> 
> I'm asking because in Zebra there are multiple modes that use more parameters and can produce some wild results.


Thanks for asking! Yeah, I believe comb filters are the most underrated tool in sound design (and the ones in Zebra actually do sound quite good). 

For Novum I am always trying to find the best balance between "powerful as hell" and "dead-simple". For the initial release I decided to keep the comb filter minimal, so that you can use it like a "normal" filter (just on stereoids). There will be a (free) upgrade probably around autumn that will extend the comb filter. 

The main additional thing the modes of the comb filters in Zebra can do is to skew the ratios of the partials, to create inharmonic tones. That is less important for Novum, as Novum works with samples and you can work with samples that contain inharmonic partials, and also you have other tools (like the timbre flower) to add inharmonics.


----------



## Peter V

Maybe I should also mention ... I am currently working on a new synth called SYMBIONT which is sonically on the crossroads of Granular, Physical Modelling and FM, but UI wise is going to be as intuitive and simple as your good old subtractive synth. So if you are after the sweet sounds of combed filters ... this is going to be your best friend!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> Maybe I should also mention ... I am currently working on a new synth called SYMBIONT which is sonically on the crossroads of Granular, Physical Modelling and FM, but UI wise is going to be as intuitive and simple as your good old subtractive synth. So if you are after the sweet sounds of combed filters ... this is going to be your best friend!



I think there could just be a smattering of interest for that synth...


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> Maybe I should also mention ... I am currently working on a new synth called SYMBIONT which is sonically on the crossroads of Granular, Physical Modelling and FM, but UI wise is going to be as intuitive and simple as your good old subtractive synth. So if you are after the sweet sounds of combed filters ... this is going to be your best friend!


Holy moly that sounds amazing!


----------



## Pier

Sorry for the geeky interruption of this thread but... @Peter V what are you using to program the GUI of your plugins?

The UI design and UX are great but from the videos I've seen the performance is fantastic too.


----------



## Peter V

Pier said:


> Sorry for the geeky interruption of this thread but... @Peter V what are you using to program the GUI of your plugins?
> 
> The UI design and UX are great but from the videos I've seen the performance is fantastic too.


Its coded in C++ and uses the Juce library. On modern machines the UI is rendered with OpenGL using the GPU, but there is a fallback for very old, low spec systems. I am spending a lot of time to profile and optimise the code to make it low-CPU. I am blessed with a beta tester who has an ancient 2-core Celeron laptop - its the benchmark for my plugins to run smooth on that system in a daw with multiple tracks.


----------



## krankyone

I think that it is cruel and unusual punishment to mention a new plugin before you release the current plugin.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Make 'em laugh, make 'em cry, make 'em...


----------



## kgdrum

krankyone said:


> I think that it is cruel and unusual punishment to mention a new plugin before you release the current plugin.




That’s actually marketing 101 for VI-C hostages, sorry I meant to say members.


----------



## Bee_Abney

... wait.


----------



## Peter V

kgdrum said:


> That’s actually marketing 101 for VI-C hostages, sorry i meant to say members.


It is only market research: I am testing the waters if anyone finds this as exciting as I do. And maybe someone has a proposal or feature request. It is much easier to add things at an early stage than few days / weeks before releasing. And where if not here I find the right people to make good suggestions?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> It is only market research: I am testing the waters if anyone finds this as exciting as I do. And maybe someone has a proposal or feature request. It is much easier to add things at an early stage than few days / weeks before releasing. And where if not here I find the right people to make good suggestions?


KVR?


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> KVR?




@Bee_Abney 

WTF! Even for you that’s cruel and sadistic we like @Peter V 
KVR? 😱


----------



## Peter V

Bee_Abney said:


> KVR?


Is it a typo? Did you mean KFC? I tried, but just got a lot of chicken wings.


----------



## doctoremmet

Peter V said:


> Is it a typo? Did you mean KFC? I tried, but just got a lot of chicken wings.


Yes, that seems an apt descriptor for the average KVR population


----------



## krankyone

My electronic musical life goes back to Commodore 64's and Juno 106's. So I've listened to a lot of different instruments/tools. What I look for these days is 1) "Wow! I've never heard that before" and 2) while I'm playing "Wow, that was an unexpected surprise"


----------



## Peter V

Another user (thank you Thomas!!!) sent me a sample to play with in Novum ... its a recording of an 800 years old monastery door: 

View attachment 800 Jahre alte Klostertür.mp3


It has some nice parts that easily could be extracted with a normal sampler. In Novum you can tweak sounds a bit further ... so I created a couple of patches and made a little track. _Everything_ you hear is this one sample after some manipulations in Novum, with just a tiny touch of EQ and compression in the DAW. 

View attachment Its full of stars.mp3


----------



## doctoremmet

Excellent example again Peter, thanks for doing this. Gosh, that UI looks gorgeous…


----------



## grabauf

Absolutely stunning example. Love it!


----------



## Bee_Abney

That is really amazing!! It's just that you get great sounds from the sample, but that they are so very musical.


----------



## Peter V

Bee_Abney said:


> That is really amazing!! It's just that you get great sounds from the sample, but that they are so very musical.


"Wherever we are, what we hear is mostly noise. When we ignore it, it disturbs us. When we listen to it, we find it fascinating." (John Cage) 

I believe there is music contained in every sound ... and Novum is designed to make it easy to bring this music to the surface: by separating the timbre(s) from the texture(s) and allow to edit these independently. The result are always very organic, as they maintain the original, rich texture, and that gives very pleasing musical sounds.


----------



## doctoremmet

This looks like the sampler I’ve been looking for


----------



## Peter V

Novum supports MPE and is designed to easily create patches that can be played with natural expression. 

This is one simple patch, played live, with two hands and virtually no keyboard skills: 
View attachment Hang Around.mp3


----------



## doctoremmet

Now this is how you create interest for a new instrument. Actual examples, active engagement with your audience, sharing nice and relevant screenshots of the UI, and explaining what it is what we’re hearing. No polished up demos, just letting the instrument shine.

Now where did you say that pre-order button was?


----------



## Bee_Abney

That sounds fantastic. It had real power and depth to the sound, and it was so alive and active.


----------



## Peter V

The ultimate challenge: I got another sample to play with in Novum ... it is a speech snippet from Donald Trump:  

View attachment Trump.mp3



Have you ever tried to make patches, or a whole track from just one, badly recorded speech sample? Well, me neither!  Everything (except the Bass Drum and a bit of compression) is the one speech sample - bended and twisted in Novum:

View attachment Small handed Elephant.mp3







Next time I will demo what you can do with less obscure sound material ...


----------



## doctoremmet

I need a TRUMP MAULTROMMEL with my BEE SHIPWRECK patch!


----------



## Peter V

doctoremmet said:


> I need a TRUMP MAULTROMMEL with my BEE SHIPWRECK patch!


Yapp, perfect trackstarters when you need inspiration


----------



## grabauf

The Maultrommel makes more sense than the original sample.


----------



## davidson

Peter V said:


> The ultimate challenge: I got another sample to play with in Novum ... it is a speech snippet from Donald Trump:
> 
> View attachment Trump.mp3
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever tried to make patches, or a whole track from just one, badly recorded speech sample? Well, me neither!  Everything (except the Bass Drum and a bit of compression) is the one speech sample - bended and twisted in Novum:
> 
> View attachment Small handed Elephant.mp3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next time I will demo what you can do with less obscure sound material ...


Hahaha, sounds like its straight out of the Hannah soundtrack!


----------



## jbuhler

I don’t think of myself as that much of a synth guy but the examples I’ve heard from Novum have me very excited!


----------



## grabauf

After listening to all those examples again, I'm more than excited.
When can we pre-order it?


----------



## Peter V

Started working on the Factory Library for NOVUM today: 






View attachment NOVUM patch.mp3


----------



## Bee_Abney

I hope it all goes smoothly. Take your time, no need to rush.

*You've got three days.*

Or, you know, as long as you want or need...


----------



## doctoremmet

Peter V said:


> Started working on the Factory Library for NOVUM today:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment NOVUM patch.mp3


PLEASE either include the BEE SHIPWRECK and MAULTRUMPEL patches, or release them as a really expensive curated bespoke pre-order edition soundpack.


----------



## grabauf

doctoremmet said:


> PLEASE either include the BEE SHIPWRECK and MAULTRUMPEL patches, or release them as a really expensive curated bespoke pre-order edition soundpack.


Talking about pre-order... Where's the button? My F5-key is already complaining . :D


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> I hope it all goes smoothly. Take your time, no need to rush.
> 
> *You've got three days.*
> 
> Or, you know, as long as you want or need...


----------



## Peter V

Pre-order is against my philosophy! Instead there will be a free 90 days trial period without any limitations once it is released. So you will be able to carefully check it out yourself and then decide if this instrument is the right fit for you.


----------



## flampton

Peter V said:


> Pre-order is against my philosophy! Instead there will be a free 90 days trial period without any limitations once it is released. So you will be able to carefully check it out yourself and then decide if this instrument is the right fit for you.


This will be fun, time to collect some samples. I wonder if the Soundiron unlocked samples will be nice for this. I have not been one to collect samples by themselves, usually stick with preformatted instruments. This synth might just be the thing to get me to go into samples. Probably still not enoguh to get me to spend 19 bucks on Flatulus though


----------



## Bee_Abney

flampton said:


> This will be fun, time to collect some samples. I wonder if the Soundiron unlocked samples will be nice for this. I have not been one to collect samples by themselves, usually stick with preformatted instruments. This synth might just be the thing to get me to go into samples. Probably still not enoguh to get me to spend 19 bucks on Flatulus though


There are a lot of good free samples that might be worth trying out. What do you think you might be looking for? I think some nature sounds could be a good idea. Old public radio, maybe? That will have music. All sorts of stuff that is either given as a freebie or is public domain. Including whole orchestras (with limited samples of limited quality, as you might imagine).


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> Pre-order is against my philosophy! Instead there will be a free 90 days trial period without any limitations once it is released. So you will be able to carefully check it out yourself and then decide if this instrument is the right fit for you.


Are you still targeting an April release?

I'm just curious not trying to pressure. Take all the time you need.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> Are you still targeting an April release?
> 
> I'm just curious not trying to pressure. Take all the time you need.


Oh, very subtle! At least I pretended to be joking when I applied the pressure...


----------



## Peter V

Novum is designed to create interesting sounds and instruments from single samples. These samples don't need to be of superior quality to make superior sounds! 

You can of course record something yourself, you can use sounds from public domain, or you can even use snippets from full pieces of music. All these sounds usually contain nice texture and have an organic quality, and you can then shape these sounds to make them work as an instrument - its all that easy! 

I will make and share a short video how to take a simple sample and create instruments from it. Also I will share a workflow how you can take snippets from (eg orchestral) recording, make a "catalog" of interesting sounds and then create a piece of music that has a modern "hybrid" sound by utilising these sounds.


----------



## doctoremmet

The TLC is just palpable


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> Novum is designed to create interesting sounds and instruments from single samples. These samples don't need to be of superior quality to make superior sounds!
> 
> You can of course record something yourself, you can use sounds from public domain, or you can even use snippets from full pieces of music. All these sounds usually contain nice texture and have an organic quality, and you can then shape these sounds to make them work as an instrument - its all that easy!
> 
> I will make and share a short video how to take a simple sample and create instruments from it. Also I will share a workflow how you can take snippets from (eg orchestral) recording, make a "catalog" of interesting sounds and then create a piece of music that has a modern "hybrid" sound by utilising these sounds.


That sounds absolutely fantastic. That will be really helpful, thank you!


----------



## Peter V

So ... there will be another release of a different plugin in a week from now (surprise!) and hence the Novum release is now scheduled for mid of June. 

There are two sound designers (and me) currently working on instruments. Also I have scheduled a couple of recording sessions in May so that basic things like orchestral textures will be covered. This wont be a remake of your go-to-libs in Kontakt that aim to be a replacement for an orchestra, rather it will be organic, hybrid textures; think of dystopic clouds of orchestral particles floating in the orbit of the solar system. 

Also I want to create some videos to show how easy and fun it is to create inspiring sounds with Novum.


----------



## doctoremmet

I hope you will record your own bassoon too Peter! 

🙀


----------



## Peter V

doctoremmet said:


> I hope you will record your own bassoon too Peter!
> 
> 🙀


Sure, I already did, just had not found the time to finish patches from this. Also I will record my gnarly, melancholic contrabassoon!


----------



## doctoremmet

Synths. Gorgeous UIs. Sample mangling. Another thing. Bassoons. Nice developer. Fantastic forum interaction. CONTRABASSOONS???

Erm…..


----------



## Peter V

Yeah! After many years of hard research and decades of practice one of the most pressing questions of our time will find an answer: how does a dense cloud of contrabassoon grains sound after being processed by SYNTIFY and an analog, resonant filter?


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> rather it will be organic, hybrid textures; think of dystopic clouds of orchestral particles floating in the orbit of the solar system.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Okay, I was reading a post on here when I passed out. Now, what was it...

Wait until June. No, not that, I can do that.

Orchestral textures. Great. S'alright.

Bassoon. Nice.

Contrabassoon.


----------



## doctoremmet

Peter V said:


> Yeah! After many years of hard research and decades of practice one of the most pressing questions of our time will find an answer: how does a dense cloud of contrabassoon grains sound after being processed by SYNTIFY and an analog, resonant filter?


If the Vogons hadn’t destroyed Earth I bet this would have been the answer to the question!! Granularized Contrabassoons.

Of course…

OF COURSE…

It was contrabassoon grains from the get-go! Are we even sure Higgs-Bosons aren’t secretly just contrabassoon grains?


----------



## flampton

Bee_Abney said:


> There are a lot of good free samples that might be worth trying out. What do you think you might be looking for? I think some nature sounds could be a good idea. Old public radio, maybe? That will have music. All sorts of stuff that is either given as a freebie or is public domain. Including whole orchestras (with limited samples of limited quality, as you might imagine).


I have been eyeing the Petroglyph pack on Soundiron. I think the various clicks and scratches could be very useful. I like the Ancient Greek stuff too, and possibly I'll make my own samples from the various Eras' (unless those are already regular wavs?, not at home to check). As you can guess I like raw sounds over elegance.


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

flampton said:


> I have been eyeing the Petroglyph pack on Soundiron. I think the various clicks and scratches could be very useful. I like the Ancient Greek stuff too, and possibly I'll make my own samples from the various Eras' (unless those are already regular wavs?, not at home to check). As you can guess I like raw sounds over elegance.


You can easily convert compressed samples in NCW format to WAV files if this what you mean. Many tools are available such as








KVR Forum: NCW <-> WAV converter - Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.) Forum


KVR Audio Forum - NCW <-> WAV converter - Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.) Forum




www.kvraudio.com


----------



## flampton

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> You can easily convert compressed samples in NCW format to WAV files if this what you mean. Many tools are available such as
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KVR Forum: NCW <-> WAV converter - Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.) Forum
> 
> 
> KVR Audio Forum - NCW <-> WAV converter - Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.) Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kvraudio.com


I did not know about this convertor. Thanks! This should work perfectly for converting any Kontakt samples I would like to try. I still have to check Best Service Engine though. Hopefully there is something for those as well. 

And here I was thinking of recording each sample...


----------



## Bee_Abney

flampton said:


> I did not know about this convertor. Thanks! This should work perfectly for converting any Kontakt samples I would like to try. I still have to check Best Service Engine though. Hopefully there is something for those as well.
> 
> And here I was thinking of recording each sample...


You might have to with locked libraries. I think that the Engine 2 libraries are locked, but I don't know for sure.

Petroglyph has some very nice sounds. Some of the Antidrum individual libraries have nice sounds too. There's also that Street Shamisen (I think), which is just WAV files.

Do be sure to check out freesound.org, which is a great place to find CC0 samples. Not all of them are CC0 - some require attribution - but they are all free to use (I only use CC0, though, otherwise I'd have to keep track of everyone's name in case I ever used the sample in anger). The quality varies, but that could be part of the fun.

These orchestral samples are free to use commercially, so long as they are not used untransformed (so, no making up a sample instrument with the samples and selling it!):






Sound samples | Philharmonia







philharmonia.co.uk





There are others, such as the freeware, and in particular the list of orchestral sample sets, at Virsilian Studios:






VSCO Community







vis.versilstudios.com


----------



## tressie5

You know, when I first ran into Abyss, I thought, "What flavour of f*ckery is this?!" Back then, though, my focus was producing country music. Now that I'm a full-fledged ambient musician, Abyss slowly became one of my guiltiest pleasures along with SoundMorph's Dust. Part of me believes, however, that I should be out in the world with a tape recorder capturing random audio to later transform into organic soundscapes. I actually do do that from time to time but, I must confess, these two plugins make my life so much easier.


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

As a complement to the ones @Bee_Abney mentioned:








Free To Use Sounds All In One Bundle 2.0


Free To Use Sounds All In One Bundle. Professional Royalty Free Sound Effects Library for Video Games, Trailers, Movies, TV-Shows, podcasts.




www.freetousesounds.com




mostly ambiant sounds but also instruments. 1.6TB of them for $25 no strings attached. Bought them a while ago. Used them for background and granular so far. Might be interesting for this too. Cannot tell yet.


----------



## Peter V

There so many great sample libs out there - but you can also do without!

I took a recording of a classical piece and cut out some snippets, then I imported these snippets into Novum. I took care not to "steel" any melody, just orchestral colours. In Novum you can slow down or even freeze the playback, or you can "smear" different parts with granular playback. And maybe add a bit of synth processing here and there. Then I played these instruments on my controller. 

The whole process is really fast: you neither need to be careful when cutting the samples, nor you need to find loop points: you simply look for a position where the original audio has a nice sound and texture. Also you don't need to worry to make the "instrument" sound great over many octaves, you can play in a tight range. For example Woodwind sounds often sound great if you play them two octaves below their original pitch, strings sound great with a bit of resonance or a touch of distortion added. The point is: its fun, its fast and via this process you make the raw material your own. And it is instant inspiration, as every new sound sparks new ideas ... 

This little sketch took about 15 minutes to cut out some snippets, 30 mins to create instruments and play some phrases, and another 30 minutes to arrange these phrases. Everything is done in Novum, with a bit of final compression and a slight "glue" reverb on an audio bus. 

View attachment Pluto.mp3


----------



## Peter V

For reference: the piece where I did cut out snippets is "I hear the water dreaming" by Toru Takemitsu. Normally in this workflow you would take multiple sources and then combine these. But even if you take only one source - with this workflow you can create something entirely new w/o copying the original.


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva

Great Peter!! Count me in!


----------



## danielh02

So with "Chop Suey" out of the way (Congrat's, Peter!) - is Novum getting closer?

https://www.tracktion.com/products/chop-suey

Really looking forward to Novum!


----------



## Galois

danielh02 said:


> So with "Chop Suey" out of the way (Congrat's, Peter!) - is Novum getting closer?
> 
> https://www.tracktion.com/products/chop-suey
> 
> Really looking forward to Novum!


As far as I know, chop suey has been out since November, so probably not the plugin Peter was talking about.


----------



## danielh02

Galois said:


> As far as I know, chop suey has been out since November, so probably not the plugin Peter was talking about.


Ah, you're right - I hadn't seen it before and only knew about it since it is now part of the Tracktion product line...


----------



## Pier

danielh02 said:


> So with "Chop Suey" out of the way (Congrat's, Peter!) - is Novum getting closer?
> 
> https://www.tracktion.com/products/chop-suey
> 
> Really looking forward to Novum!


Amazing stuff.

Actually thanks for posting the link. I completely missed it when it was released.


----------



## Bee_Abney

danielh02 said:


> So with "Chop Suey" out of the way (Congrat's, Peter!) - is Novum getting closer?
> 
> https://www.tracktion.com/products/chop-suey
> 
> Really looking forward to Novum!


Like @Pier, I didn't know about this product. It's interesting; specialised certainly, but kick drum sounds do crop up on a lot of tracks!


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> Like @Pier, I didn't know about this product. It's interesting; specialised certainly, but kick drum sounds do crop up on a lot of tracks!


In techno the kick drum is like 80% of the track 😂


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> In techno the kick drum is like 80% of the track 😂


It's a funny old musical genre when it requires mind altering, recreational drugs to fully enjoy it!


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> It's a funny old musical genre when it requires mind altering, recreational drugs to fully enjoy it!


Think of it as a BONUS! 😜


----------



## c0nsilience

Bee_Abney said:


> It's a funny old musical genre when it requires mind altering, recreational drugs to fully enjoy it!


Perhaps that’s because it required mind altering, recreational drugs to make it! 😂


----------



## SupremeFist

Chop Suey is back to intro price today. Just began a track with it and it's awesome. 🤘🏻


----------



## doctoremmet

Please share that track!


----------



## SupremeFist

doctoremmet said:


> Please share that track!


Ha, we'll see...


----------



## SupremeFist

It's not just for techno btw; I think I'll be using it in all my synthwave/electronica nonsense from now on. It's a really cleverly thought out workflow, with a beautiful and intuitive yet deep interface, for sculpting a kick exactly to your track's needs (and the included presets are already stellar). What with this and Abyss I am now a fully-paid-up Dawesome fan.


----------



## SupremeFist

SupremeFist said:


> It's not just for techno btw; I think I'll be using it in all my synthwave/electronica nonsense from now on. It's a really cleverly thought out workflow, with a beautiful and intuitive yet deep interface, for sculpting a kick exactly to your track's needs (and the included presets are already stellar). What with this and Abyss I am now a fully-paid-up Dawesome fan.


I do think the name is not the best, though. I'm kind of embarrassed to have something called "Chop Suey" in my track listing so instead I've saved it as a Logic patch named "Dawesome Kick Machine".


----------



## c0nsilience

You had to know this was coming!


----------



## SupremeFist

c0nsilience said:


> You had to know this was coming!



Saw them at Reading once, they were awesome! 🤘🏻


----------



## Pier

SupremeFist said:


> I do think the name is not the best, though. I'm kind of embarrassed to have something called "Chop Suey" in my track listing so instead I've saved it as a Logic patch named "Dawesome Kick Machine".


I agree about the name 

It's a weird name tbh. Is it some kind of pun?

(non native English speaker btw)


----------



## SupremeFist

Pier said:


> I agree about the name
> 
> It's a weird name tbh. Is it some kind of pun?
> 
> (non native English speaker btw)


I have no idea except the concept is to "chop" the kick into successive parts, I guess?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Other than not being straightforwardly descriptive, the name doesn't strike me as especially silly. If they'd called it Eggs Benedict, that would be another matter.

I have heard martial arts films - or a sub-category of them - being referred to as Chop Socky films. So it slightly evokes that for me.

Chop Suey as a dish is Chinese American rather than Chinese - so possibly something made for non-Chinese customers in restaurants. A lot of British Chinese restaurants serve some such sort of hybrid.

It is pan fried very quickly and contains lots of different ingredients chopped up, again, usually very quickly. Fried and stirred together, it tastes great. This seems to be the vibe they are going for, right?

Maybe I'm way off. So I'm guessing none of you are interested in my transient shaper called Fish and Chips? Do you want more fish, or more chips?


----------



## el-bo

Peter V said:


> There so many great sample libs out there - but you can also do without!
> 
> I took a recording of a classical piece and cut out some snippets, then I imported these snippets into Novum. I took care not to "steel" any melody, just orchestral colours. In Novum you can slow down or even freeze the playback, or you can "smear" different parts with granular playback. And maybe add a bit of synth processing here and there. Then I played these instruments on my controller.
> 
> The whole process is really fast: you neither need to be careful when cutting the samples, nor you need to find loop points: you simply look for a position where the original audio has a nice sound and texture. Also you don't need to worry to make the "instrument" sound great over many octaves, you can play in a tight range. For example Woodwind sounds often sound great if you play them two octaves below their original pitch, strings sound great with a bit of resonance or a touch of distortion added. The point is: its fun, its fast and via this process you make the raw material your own. And it is instant inspiration, as every new sound sparks new ideas ...
> 
> This little sketch took about 15 minutes to cut out some snippets, 30 mins to create instruments and play some phrases, and another 30 minutes to arrange these phrases. Everything is done in Novum, with a bit of final compression and a slight "glue" reverb on an audio bus.
> 
> View attachment Pluto.mp3


What voodoo is this that you dooo?

Sounds great


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> If they'd called it Eggs Benedict, that would be another matter.


Now I REALLY have to make a plugin called Eggs Benedict 😂


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> Now I REALLY have to make a plugin called Eggs Benedict 😂


Set the price high. I'll definitely buy it regardless!


----------



## SupremeFist

Bee_Abney said:


> Other than not being straightforwardly descriptive, the name doesn't strike me as especially silly. If they'd called it Eggs Benedict, that would be another matter.
> 
> I have heard martial arts films - or a sub-category of them - being referred to as Chop Socky films. So it slightly evokes that for me.
> 
> Chop Suey as a dish is Chinese American rather than Chinese - so possibly something made for non-Chinese customers in restaurants. A lot of British Chinese restaurants serve some such sort of hybrid.
> 
> It is pan fried very quickly and contains lots of different ingredients chopped up, again, usually very quickly. Fried and stirred together, it tastes great. This seems to be the vibe they are going for, right?
> 
> Maybe I'm way off. So I'm guessing none of you are interested in my transient shaper called Fish and Chips? Do you want more fish, or more chips?


I guess the association with something that has become a lazy cliché of cultural difference might seem weird to some, especially as there's no relevant connection I can see between kick drums and Chinese civilization. Just seems like they reached for the first association with the verb "chop" (for cutting samples into constituent parts) and didn't really think further than that.


----------



## Peter V

We had a list of about 100 names. 98 were already used by other plugins or librarys, so only two names where left: Eggs Benedict and Chop Suey. That was a tough choice, so in the end we tossed a coin.


----------



## Bee_Abney

SupremeFist said:


> I guess the association with something that has become a lazy cliché of cultural difference might seem weird to some, especially as there's no relevant connection I can see between kick drums and Chinese civilization. Just seems like they reached for the first association with the verb "chop" (for cutting samples into constituent parts) and didn't really think further than that.


I'm not familiar with those associations with Chop Suey. Is it to do with associating Chinese culture with food in general? Obviously, while their cultural cuisine is something the Chinese are rightly proud of, it doesn't mean that it can't be used in a reductive, dismissive way. Not being American, perhaps, I've never thought of Chop Suey in this context. There is a specific word that used to common British slang for Chinese food that I know has racist connotations (hence, I'm not mentioning it); but I wouldn't have thought of Chop Suey as being anything like that.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> We had a list of about 100 names. 98 were already used by other plugins or librarys, so only two names where left: Eggs Benedict and Chop Suey. That was a tough choice, so in the end we tossed a coin.


Well, absent further information on cultural associations, I think the coin did you a kindness.


----------



## SupremeFist

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm not familiar with those associations with Chop Suey. Is it to do with associating Chinese culture with food in general? Obviously, while their cultural cuisine is something the Chinese are rightly proud of, it doesn't mean that it can't be used in a reductive, dismissive way. Not being American, perhaps, I've never thought of Chop Suey in this context. There is a specific word that used to common British slang for Chinese food that I know has racist connotations (hence, I'm not mentioning it); but I wouldn't have thought of Chop Suey as being anything like that.


Oh I'm not saying it's racist, just that the cultural reference seems oddly gratuitous.


----------



## Bee_Abney

SupremeFist said:


> Oh I'm not saying it's racist, just that the cultural reference seems oddly gratuitous.


Oh, I think I understand now. You may have a point!


----------



## SupremeFist

Eg something like "Kung Fu Kick" would have at least made more sense (and I say that as someone who has been studying various varieties of "kung fu" under Chinese experts for many years).


----------



## Bee_Abney

SupremeFist said:


> Eg something like "Kung Fu Kick" would have at least made more sense (and I say that has someone who has been studying various varieties of "kung fu" under Chinese experts for many years).


I think 'Chop' relates to the editing, and the sound of chopping. So that works very well for me.


----------



## SupremeFist

Bee_Abney said:


> I think 'Chop' relates to the editing, and the sound of chopping. So that works very well for me.


Yes, but then it goes all culinary for no reason?!


----------



## Peter V

Actually this plugin was called "BEEF" until 36 hours before release. We had checked the name when we started discussing the concept for the plugin, used the name while it was developed, and 36h before release we realised that the name was already taken. Chop Suey is one of the favourite dishes of Björn, and actually Bee is right: we thought about the way how you prepare the dish Chop Suey: chopping ingredients up very quickly, mix them together, add some spices and you get something delicious. The whole is more than the sum of the ingredients. And everyone can cook its own variant of that dish - that felt like the perfect metaphor for the workflow of the plugin - this is how the name was chosen.


----------



## SupremeFist

Why not "Lamb Chop" or "Porky Chop"?


----------



## Bee_Abney

SupremeFist said:


> Yes, but then it goes all culinary for no reason?!


Cookin' beats. They're fire! Tasty beat, man! I put this on Spotify and my fans will eat it up!


----------



## SupremeFist

Peter V said:


> Actually this plugin was called "BEEF" until 36 hours before release. We had checked the name when we started discussing the concept for the plugin, used the name while it was developed, and 36h before release we realised that the name was already taken. Chop Suey is one of the favourite dishes of Björn, and actually Bee is right: we thought about the way how you prepare the dish Chop Suey: chopping ingredients up very quickly, mix them together, add some spices and you get something delicious. The whole is more than the sum of the ingredients. And everyone can cook its own variant of that dish - that felt like the perfect metaphor for the workflow of the plugin - this is how the name was chosen.


Aha!


----------



## SupremeFist

Peter V said:


> Actually this plugin was called "BEEF" until 36 hours before release. We had checked the name when we started discussing the concept for the plugin, used the name while it was developed, and 36h before release we realised that the name was already taken. Chop Suey is one of the favourite dishes of Björn, and actually Bee is right: we thought about the way how you prepare the dish Chop Suey: chopping ingredients up very quickly, mix them together, add some spices and you get something delicious. The whole is more than the sum of the ingredients. And everyone can cook its own variant of that dish - that felt like the perfect metaphor for the workflow of the plugin - this is how the name was chosen.


This makes total sense; I just fear that in the current climate where people are very sensitive (often for good reason!) about anything that smacks of cultural cliché, or even just because it sounds jokey and somehow unserious, the name might put potential customers off what is actually a really terrific product.


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> We had a list of about 100 names. 98 were already used by other plugins or librarys, so only two names where left: Eggs Benedict and Chop Suey. That was a tough choice, so in the end we tossed a coin.


Finding a name (for anything) is extremely difficult these days.

All domains are taken. Band names on Spotify are all taken. Etc.

And coming up with a made-up name is also non trivial when you consider it has to work with non English speakers too.

Whenever I'm starting a new project this terrifies me.



SupremeFist said:


> and I say that as someone who has been studying various varieties of "kung fu" under Chinese experts for many years


I've wondered many times where your forum username came from!


----------



## Peter V

Pier said:


> Finding a name (for anything) is extremely difficult these days.


You name it! This is one of the reasons why I decided to talk about NOVUM and SYMBIONT way before release ... I dont want to find myself ever again in the situation of needing to change the name of a plugin 36h before release: the logo, the software, the installer, the website, the videos, the manual with all new screenshots ... that was quite a stress! 

Maybe this is a good opportunity to talk about STRANGE ATTRACTORS, a new concept I started working on.


----------



## SupremeFist

Pier said:


> I've wondered many times where your forum username came from!


Indeed! "Supreme Ultimate Fist" is one possible translation for _taijiquan_ (known in a diluted form as "tai chi" in the west).


----------



## Bee_Abney

SupremeFist said:


> Indeed! "Supreme Ultimate Fist" is one possible translation for _taijiquan_ (known in a diluted form as "tai chi" in the west).


I'd forgotten that I used to know that! I thought that, given your innate and obvious sense of modesty, that it must be ironic is some way - or meant to honour some reference I didn't get. As it is, it's the latter, and I should have recognised it!


----------



## SupremeFist

Peter V said:


> Maybe this is a good opportunity to talk about STRANGE ATTRACTORS, a new concept I started working on.


That sounds awesome and I will almost certainly buy it, just as soon as you let me buy Novum?


----------



## SupremeFist

Bee_Abney said:


> I'd forgotten that I used to know that! I thought that, given your innate and obvious sense of modesty, that it must be ironic is some way - or meant to honour some reference I didn't get. As it is, it's the latter, and I should have recognised it!


It is kind of both


----------



## Bee_Abney

I have a feeling that Novum will be the biggest thing for a sample head like me for a very long time - looking, Janus faced, both ways in time.

Don't let me down, or I'll come over there and eat all your Chop Suey! Don't you think that I won't!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> Finding a name (for anything) is extremely difficult these days.
> 
> All domains are taken. Band names on Spotify are all taken. Etc.
> 
> And coming up with a made-up name is also non trivial when you consider it has to work with non English speakers too.
> 
> Whenever I'm starting a new project this terrifies me.
> 
> 
> I've wondered many times where your forum username came from!


Preach, brother! My real name is Beyonce. Well, I can't use that anymore, can I?


----------



## Peter V

Bee_Abney said:


> I have a feeling that Novum will be the biggest thing for a sample head like me for a very long time - looking, Janus faced, both ways in time.
> 
> Don't let me down, or I'll come over there and eat all your Chop Suey! Don't you think that I won't!


Ok, sounds fair!


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> Preach, brother! My real name is Beyonce. Well, I can't use that anymore, can I?


You actually mean...



...



...


*Bee*yonce


...


Right?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> You actually mean...
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> *Bee*yonce
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Right?


You know we can't be friends now, right?


----------



## c0nsilience

Block Rockin' Beets 🥕🍅


----------



## Bee_Abney

c0nsilience said:


> Block Rockin' Beets 🥕🍅


I really wish I could eat Beetroot. It's like it attacks my stomach with knives. Blunt ones, so it will hurt more. Evil stuff. Plus, the whole Paul Verhoeven 'Turkish Delight', Rutger Hauer swishing the water about in the toilet thing. If you've seen the film and don't remember - what's wrong with you? If you haven't seen the film - what's wrong with you? And if you have seen the film and do remember - what's wrong with you?


----------



## c0nsilience

Bee_Abney said:


> I really wish I could eat Beetroot. It's like it attacks my stomach with knives. Blunt ones, so it will hurt more. Evil stuff. Plus, the whole Paul Verhoeven 'Turkish Delight', Rutger Hauer swishing the water about in the toilet thing. If you've seen the film and don't remember - what's wrong with you? If you haven't seen the film - what's wrong with you? And if you have seen the film and do remember - what's wrong with you?


My wife has been asking me this very question for more years than I’d care to count!


----------



## Bee_Abney

c0nsilience said:


> My wife has been asking me this very question for more years than I’d care to count!


Your wife sounds very wise!


----------



## Pier

c0nsilience said:


> Block Rockin' Beets 🥕🍅
















Urban Beets 1 - Whole Loops


The all new collection of Hip Hop, Trap, & R&B Drum Loops, One-Shots, and samples hand made and mixed for high quality music productions. Load the Wav




wholeloops.com


----------



## bermudagold

Peter V said:


> There so many great sample libs out there - but you can also do without!
> 
> I took a recording of a classical piece and cut out some snippets, then I imported these snippets into Novum. I took care not to "steel" any melody, just orchestral colours. In Novum you can slow down or even freeze the playback, or you can "smear" different parts with granular playback. And maybe add a bit of synth processing here and there. Then I played these instruments on my controller.
> 
> The whole process is really fast: you neither need to be careful when cutting the samples, nor you need to find loop points: you simply look for a position where the original audio has a nice sound and texture. Also you don't need to worry to make the "instrument" sound great over many octaves, you can play in a tight range. For example Woodwind sounds often sound great if you play them two octaves below their original pitch, strings sound great with a bit of resonance or a touch of distortion added. The point is: its fun, its fast and via this process you make the raw material your own. And it is instant inspiration, as every new sound sparks new ideas ...
> 
> This little sketch took about 15 minutes to cut out some snippets, 30 mins to create instruments and play some phrases, and another 30 minutes to arrange these phrases. Everything is done in Novum, with a bit of final compression and a slight "glue" reverb on an audio bus.
> 
> View attachment Pluto.mp3


Hi Peter...so I am assuming this is resampled additive resynthesis like Abyss...or some new process?...seems unlikely you could do this type of dissection and extraction with PCM, granular, or Psola...jus curious


----------



## DCPImages

Peter V said:


> There so many great sample libs out there - but you can also do without!
> 
> I took a recording of a classical piece and cut out some snippets, then I imported these snippets into Novum. I took care not to "steel" any melody, just orchestral colours. In Novum you can slow down or even freeze the playback, or you can "smear" different parts with granular playback. And maybe add a bit of synth processing here and there. Then I played these instruments on my controller.
> 
> The whole process is really fast: you neither need to be careful when cutting the samples, nor you need to find loop points: you simply look for a position where the original audio has a nice sound and texture. Also you don't need to worry to make the "instrument" sound great over many octaves, you can play in a tight range. For example Woodwind sounds often sound great if you play them two octaves below their original pitch, strings sound great with a bit of resonance or a touch of distortion added. The point is: its fun, its fast and via this process you make the raw material your own. And it is instant inspiration, as every new sound sparks new ideas ...
> 
> This little sketch took about 15 minutes to cut out some snippets, 30 mins to create instruments and play some phrases, and another 30 minutes to arrange these phrases. Everything is done in Novum, with a bit of final compression and a slight "glue" reverb on an audio bus.
> 
> View attachment Pluto.mp3


Hi Peter,
Like everyone here, I just love your work and these examples are superb. Thank you!

I hope you are going to give some masterclasses on using Novum for sound design and composition to accompany the release? 

it is great that you intend Novum to be really user-friendly, but one of my most frequent regrets is that people make brilliant software and don’t do nearly enough to show people how to use it.

Thanks for your fine work,
DP


----------



## Peter V

bermudagold said:


> Hi Peter...so I am assuming this is resampled additive resynthesis like Abyss...or some new process?...seems unlikely you could do this type of dissection and extraction with PCM, granular, or Psola...jus curious


Ok, before I explain the underlying technology: *you don't need to understand any of this* or the math behind it. NOVUM comes with a user interface that is designed by musician for musicians: intuitive, inspiring and fast. Its certainly more complex than the Abyss interface - simply because it offers multiple techniques - but its designed in the same spirit.

So, NOVUM uses a combination of techniques: 

The decomposition uses a machine learning technology called “Non-negative Matrix Factorisation (*NMF*)”. There is a huge body of research around NMF and a myriad of variations and applications. NMF works on the "Short-Time-Fourier-Transformation (*STFT*)", so it takes the signal and creates a 2D representation. This is interpreted as a matrix and NMF computes a low-rank approximation of the Matrix. You can afterwards use Wiener-Filtering to recover the individual layers in a way that the sum of layers gives you back the original sound. There are a couple of caveats with the normal NMF algorithms when applied to sound: the phase information is not used, transients get muddy, the envelopes are often not intuitive. So it has been a long journey for me to address these issues and come up with my own solutions - such that it really works in the context of a sound design / music instrument.

A very important aspect of designing an instrument is its interface. This goes far beyond matters of taste and how things look like. One of the advantages of representing sound with NMF layers is that you can mix and match individual elements. But for doing so you need to have some visual hints, otherwise you will always operate in the blind. This problem is one of the origins of the “represent timbres with colours” concept in Novum and Abyss. For doing so any sound is translated first into a stationary frequency representation. You can view this as a point in a (very) high dimensional space. But the colour space has only 3 dimensions, so you take hundreds and thousands of timbres and then apply dimension reduction techniques. This allows you to assign a colour to every timbre. It requires some additional work to make this intuitive (for example such that noises are gray/white or warm sounds are more orange etc).

As NOVUM anyways needs to compute the fourier transform this can also be used to modify the spectrum, so called “*spectral*” techniques. These can be very powerful, but there are two disadvantages: its heavy on CPU and when modulating you get very ugly sound artefacts. Hence I carefully chose a few things that can be done only in the spectral domain, but compute this in the background. This is the base of the "Timbre Flower" in NOVUM, that allows you to change the characteristics of a "tone colour" with one click. 

SYNTIFY is another innovation in NOVUM. It is based on the idea of representing sound neither in the time domain, nor in the frequency domain, but in a so called “*nonlinear phase state*”. In this way sound becomes a trajectory of an object flying through a high dimensional abstract space. And then you can change the physics of this space to modify the trajectory and hence the sound. This is based on the theory of nonlinear dynamic systems and differential equations. It took my quite a while to make this applicable to sound, but I believe this approach is very powerful and SYNTIFY is just the first application. This is unexplored ground and currently my main area of research, so you can expect to see and hear more applications of this over the next years.

Then there are of course *classical signal processing* techniques for the modelling of an analogue filter, the comb filter, the FX. The sound generation engine itself is granular. I spent a lot of time to make this as CPU efficient as possible, so that you can have up to thousands of grains playing at the same time.

Overall its this *combination* of techniques that allows you to go beyond classical sample manipulation: decomposition into layers, spectral modification of the layers, freely exchanging timbres or envelopes, or drawing new envelopes by hand; "syntify" and comb filtering, along classical techniques like distortion and analog filter.


----------



## Peter V

DCPImages said:


> Hi Peter,
> Like everyone here, I just love your work and these examples are superb. Thank you!
> 
> I hope you are going to give some masterclasses on using Novum for sound design and composition to accompany the release?
> 
> it is great that you intend Novum to be really user-friendly, but one of my most frequent regrets is that people make brilliant software and don’t do nearly enough to show people how to use it.
> 
> Thanks for your fine work,
> DP


Yes, there will be a series of short videos where I simply show how to use NOVUM to achieve a certain task like "create a grooving rumble from a drumloop" or "create a textured pad from a field recording" or "Extract hybrid orchestral timbres from any orchestral snippet" and such. Actually once you understand and get a feel for the decomposition of a sample into layers its quite intuitive and fun! 

I wanted to create and share this videos already right now, but like so many people I just had caught covid19 which knocked me out for the better of two weeks. But now I am back and I expect the first videos on 15th of June. 

And of course: there will be a *90 days unlimited trail period* - so you can take your time with NOVUM and don't need to make a risky purchase without knowing exactly what you get for your money!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> Yes, there will be a series of short videos where I simply show how to use NOVUM to achieve a certain task like "create a grooving rumble from a drumloop" or "create a textured pad from a field recording" or "Extract hybrid orchestral timbres from any orchestral snippet" and such. Actually once you understand and get a feel for the decomposition of a sample into layers its quite intuitive and fun!
> 
> I wanted to create and share this videos already right now, but like so many people I just had caught covid19 which knocked me out for the better of two weeks. But now I am back and I expect the first videos on 15th of June.
> 
> And of course: there will be a *90 days unlimited trail period* - so you can take your time with NOVUM and don't need to make a risky purchase without knowing exactly what you get for your money!



Thank you! I hope you're feeling much better now. Covid is still a risky prospect.


----------



## danielh02

Peter V said:


> Yes, there will be a series of short videos where I simply show how to use NOVUM to achieve a certain task like "create a grooving rumble from a drumloop" or "create a textured pad from a field recording" or "Extract hybrid orchestral timbres from any orchestral snippet" and such. Actually once you understand and get a feel for the decomposition of a sample into layers its quite intuitive and fun!
> 
> I wanted to create and share this videos already right now, but like so many people I just had caught covid19 which knocked me out for the better of two weeks. But now I am back and I expect the first videos on 15th of June.
> 
> And of course: there will be a *90 days unlimited trail period* - so you can take your time with NOVUM and don't need to make a risky purchase without knowing exactly what you get for your money!


So glad you are feeling better - and looking forward to NOVUM Peter!!


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> I really wish I could eat Beetroot. It's like it attacks my stomach with knives. Blunt ones, so it will hurt more. Evil stuff. Plus, the whole Paul Verhoeven 'Turkish Delight', Rutger Hauer swishing the water about in the toilet thing. If you've seen the film and don't remember - what's wrong with you? If you haven't seen the film - what's wrong with you? And if you have seen the film and do remember - what's wrong with you?




No borscht 🥣 for Beeyonce aka the Strange Attractor? 😩


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> No borscht 🍲 for Beeyonce aka the Strange Attractor? 😩


It is indeed absolutely the biggest challenge I face in life. Other than getting out this damned spot.


----------



## DCPImages

Peter V said:


> Yes, there will be a series of short videos where I simply show how to use NOVUM to achieve a certain task like "create a grooving rumble from a drumloop" or "create a textured pad from a field recording" or "Extract hybrid orchestral timbres from any orchestral snippet" and such. Actually once you understand and get a feel for the decomposition of a sample into layers its quite intuitive and fun!
> 
> I wanted to create and share this videos already right now, but like so many people I just had caught covid19 which knocked me out for the better of two weeks. But now I am back and I expect the first videos on 15th of June.
> 
> And of course: there will be a *90 days unlimited trail period* - so you can take your time with NOVUM and don't need to make a risky purchase without knowing exactly what you get for your money!


Get well soon Peter V


----------



## bermudagold

Peter V said:


> Ok, before I explain the underlying technology: *you don't need to understand any of this* or the math behind it. NOVUM comes with a user interface that is designed by musician for musicians: intuitive, inspiring and fast. Its certainly more complex than the Abyss interface - simply because it offers multiple techniques - but its designed in the same spirit.
> 
> So, NOVUM uses a combination of techniques:
> 
> The decomposition uses a machine learning technology called “Non-negative Matrix Factorisation (*NMF*)”. There is a huge body of research around NMF and a myriad of variations and applications. NMF works on the "Short-Time-Fourier-Transformation (*STFT*)", so it takes the signal and creates a 2D representation. This is interpreted as a matrix and NMF computes a low-rank approximation of the Matrix. You can afterwards use Wiener-Filtering to recover the individual layers in a way that the sum of layers gives you back the original sound. There are a couple of caveats with the normal NMF algorithms when applied to sound: the phase information is not used, transients get muddy, the envelopes are often not intuitive. So it has been a long journey for me to address these issues and come up with my own solutions - such that it really works in the context of a sound design / music instrument.
> 
> A very important aspect of designing an instrument is its interface. This goes far beyond matters of taste and how things look like. One of the advantages of representing sound with NMF layers is that you can mix and match individual elements. But for doing so you need to have some visual hints, otherwise you will always operate in the blind. This problem is one of the origins of the “represent timbres with colours” concept in Novum and Abyss. For doing so any sound is translated first into a stationary frequency representation. You can view this as a point in a (very) high dimensional space. But the colour space has only 3 dimensions, so you take hundreds and thousands of timbres and then apply dimension reduction techniques. This allows you to assign a colour to every timbre. It requires some additional work to make this intuitive (for example such that noises are gray/white or warm sounds are more orange etc).
> 
> As NOVUM anyways needs to compute the fourier transform this can also be used to modify the spectrum, so called “*spectral*” techniques. These can be very powerful, but there are two disadvantages: its heavy on CPU and when modulating you get very ugly sound artefacts. Hence I carefully chose a few things that can be done only in the spectral domain, but compute this in the background. This is the base of the "Timbre Flower" in NOVUM, that allows you to change the characteristics of a "tone colour" with one click.
> 
> SYNTIFY is another innovation in NOVUM. It is based on the idea of representing sound neither in the time domain, nor in the frequency domain, but in a so called “*nonlinear phase state*”. In this way sound becomes a trajectory of an object flying through a high dimensional abstract space. And then you can change the physics of this space to modify the trajectory and hence the sound. This is based on the theory of nonlinear dynamic systems and differential equations. It took my quite a while to make this applicable to sound, but I believe this approach is very powerful and SYNTIFY is just the first application. This is unexplored ground and currently my main area of research, so you can expect to see and hear more applications of this over the next years.
> 
> Then there are of course *classical signal processing* techniques for the modelling of an analogue filter, the comb filter, the FX. The sound generation engine itself is granular. I spent a lot of time to make this as CPU efficient as possible, so that you can have up to thousands of grains playing at the same time.
> 
> Overall its this *combination* of techniques that allows you to go beyond classical sample manipulation: decomposition into layers, spectral modification of the layers, freely exchanging timbres or envelopes, or drawing new envelopes by hand; "syntify" and comb filtering, along classical techniques like distortion and analog filter.


Hi Peter,
thanks for taking the time to answer in such detail....I hope it didn't seem as if I was expressing skepticism, trying to minimize your research/techniques, or expecting you to compromise your intellectual property;...as a casual, I'm interested in correlating my experiences with tools with the underlying methods they employ....every resynthesis method I have tried, there seems to be a lot of timbre information and possibly psycho-acoustic cues that aid timbre perception, that is lost...also, many methods seem to impart a singular sonic fingerprint that can leave the output with a certain sameness or a sonic aftertaste if you will that cannot be washed off...In my experiments I have been able to achieve a wider and deeper palette of timbre in sound design staying in what I am assuming is the pcm domain...

The explanation of your methods is fascinating stuff...Your "syntify" sounds to share some similarities with the modeling of sound transport interacting with a geometric space using ray tracing as in some echo/reverb tools...

I can tell from your interaction on forums, that I like the way you think, and the strategies you employ in executing these thoughts...and this is evident in your resulting creations....I like tools that allow you to design sounds deterministically without always having to rely on trial and error...You are one of the few developers I would take time to demo anything you put out...good luck with your research and thanks for sharing your talents with the world


----------



## Peter V

bermudagold said:


> Hi Peter,
> thanks for taking the time to answer in such detail....I hope it didn't seem as if I was expressing skepticism, trying to minimize your research/techniques, or expecting you to compromise your intellectual property;...as a casual, I'm interested in correlating my experiences with tools with the underlying methods they employ....every resynthesis method I have tried, there seems to be a lot of timbre information and possibly psycho-acoustic cues that aid timbre perception, that is lost...also, many methods seem to impart a singular sonic fingerprint that can leave the output with a certain sameness or a sonic aftertaste if you will that cannot be washed off...In my experiments I have been able to achieve a wider and deeper palette of timbre in sound design staying in what I am assuming is the pcm domain...
> 
> The explanation of your methods is fascinating stuff...Your "syntify" sounds to share some similarities with the modeling of sound transport interacting with a geometric space using ray tracing as in some echo/reverb tools...
> 
> I can tell from your interaction on forums, that I like the way you think, and the strategies you employ in executing these thoughts...and this is evident in your resulting creations....I like tools that allow you to design sounds deterministically without always having to rely on trial and error...You are one of the only developers I would take time to demo anything you put out...good luck with your research and thanks for sharing your talents with the world


Oh no, I did not sensed any skepticism, I am not disclosing any IP, and I am also not worried about it ... if anyone wants to build a cool plugin that uses NMF ... thats great and if the plugin is great I will probably purchase it for my own music  ... there is enough space for more than one product!
I think it is perfectly fine to ask about the underlying technology, as sometimes the technology can be fascinating stuff. Well, and probably I also like to talk about it :-D 

To be honest: when I had read for the first time about NMF and its applications I was also very sceptical, but surprisingly it works. In NOVUM you can decompose your sample, and play it back and you will get _exactly_ back what you put in. Of course: as soon as you play the sound at a different pitch you will notice the granular engine, but you have control over the granular parameters. The nice thing of granular: the playback speed does not change, so you can play a chord and everything is in sync. The more you process the sample with spectral, granular or classical techniques, the further away it sounds from its origin, well and to some extend it is desired. 

The quality of the layers themselves depend very much on your original material. It works best with sounds that change over time - if you put in a stationary sound that does not change there are too few timbral cues for a decomposition. Sometimes it fits well to our perception, sometimes its surprising. When your material is very transient and you want to make a sustained sound you can get rid of the transients with a switch called "HOMOGENIZE". The sounds you get from first decomposing, then homogenizing a timbre are very nice: they have a very organic and natural acoustic feel and are great for all kind of pads, textures and such. Very much like the timbres in Abyss, which are based on a similar technique. 

I should also mention: you dont need to decompose samples. You can also use NOVUM as a powerful granular synth with 6 layers and simply put 6 different samples - one for each layer. The user interface allows you to either edit any parameter for all the six layers in common, or to "unlink" any parameter and edit or modulate it for each layer separately. In this way there is no re-synthesis, but you can still create variations of your samples via the timbre flower or "homogenize" the sample, and you can benefit from the fast drag-and-drop workflow where colours help you to keep an overview.


----------



## flampton

Peter V said:


> Oh no, I did not sensed any skepticism, I am not disclosing any IP, and I am also not worried about it ... if anyone wants to build a cool plugin that uses NMF ... thats great and if the plugin is great I will probably purchase it for my own music  ... there is enough space for more than one product!
> I think it is perfectly fine to ask about the underlying technology, as sometimes the technology can be fascinating stuff. Well, and probably I also like to talk about it :-D
> 
> To be honest: when I had read for the first time about NMF and its applications I was also very sceptical, but surprisingly it works. In NOVUM you can decompose your sample, and play it back and you will get _exactly_ back what you put in. Of course: as soon as you play the sound at a different pitch you will notice the granular engine, but you have control over the granular parameters. The nice thing of granular: the playback speed does not change, so you can play a chord and everything is in sync. The more you process the sample with spectral, granular or classical techniques, the further away it sounds from its origin, well and to some extend it is desired.
> 
> The quality of the layers themselves depend very much on your original material. It works best with sounds that change over time - if you put in a stationary sound that does not change there are too few timbral cues for a decomposition. Sometimes it fits well to our perception, sometimes its surprising. When your material is very transient and you want to make a sustained sound you can get rid of the transients with a switch called "HOMOGENIZE". The sounds you get from first decomposing, then homogenizing a timbre are very nice: they have a very organic and natural acoustic feel and are great for all kind of pads, textures and such. Very much like the timbres in Abyss, which are based on a similar technique.
> 
> I should also mention: you dont need to decompose samples. You can also use NOVUM as a powerful granular synth with 6 layers and simply put 6 different samples - one for each layer. The user interface allows you to either edit any parameter for all the six layers in common, or to "unlink" any parameter and edit or modulate it for each layer separately. In this way there is no re-synthesis, but you can still create variations of your samples via the timbre flower or "homogenize" the sample, and you can benefit from the fast drag-and-drop workflow where colours help you to keep an overview.


The more I read about Novum the more I am sure that I must own it, and I have every reason to believe it will not only be fantastic for my music but also allow me to generate the needed 1.21 jigawatts to return to my time.


----------



## Peter V

flampton said:


> The more I read about Novum the more I am sure that I must own it, and I have every reason to believe it will not only be fantastic for my music but also allow me to generate the needed 1.21 jigawatts to return to my time.


sure, NOVUM can also be used as a flux capacitor


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> sure, NOVUM can also be used as a flux capacitor


Does it make breakfast too?


----------



## Peter V

Pier said:


> Does it make breakfast too?


I am slowly getting concerned that maybe the expectations are a tiny bit above what NOVUM is able to deliver ... but to answer your question: that solely depends on your talent as sound designer. And maybe on your definition of "breakfast".


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> I am slowly getting concerned that maybe the expectations are a tiny bit above what NOVUM is able to deliver ... but to answer your question: that solely depends on your talent as sound designer. And maybe on your definition of "breakfast".


Nah don't worry. As long as NOVUM can cook, clean the house, time travel, and manipulate spectral layers of samples you will be fine!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> I am slowly getting concerned that maybe the expectations are a tiny bit above what NOVUM is able to deliver ... but to answer your question: that solely depends on your talent as sound designer. And maybe on your definition of "breakfast".


The Chop Suey-eating threat remains intact!


----------



## c0nsilience

@Peter V Is a stellar human being whose character shines forth in the work that he produces. A bonafide polymath and just an overall great guy! Abyss set an incredibly high standard for when creativity and commerce intersect. How could it not? When someone that talented puts that much love and passion into a product, well, we all reap the benefit! 🙂

There is no _caveat emptor_ for Novum, which is atypical and welcomed, from my perspective.


----------



## creativeforge

I'm totally unable to grasp much of what is being discussed here. Not your fault. The thread has been going for quite a while and I'm coming at a weird moment during the movie. 

Can you help?

- What is NOVUM, is it available and if so WHERE, or can you link to any patches walk-thrus?

- How about ABYSS?

Very curious, I'd blame insomnia, but frankly I believe I'm just out of my depth. 

Thank you in advance,

Andre


----------



## doctoremmet

creativeforge said:


> What is NOVUM, is it available and if so WHERE, or can you link to any patches walk-thrus?


It is not released yet. It will be sold at Tracktion. 

Abyss is a fantastic synthesizer that is also sold via Tracktion.


----------



## doctoremmet

creativeforge said:


> How about ABYSS?


Post #9 explains best


----------



## doctoremmet

NOVUM - post #250:

Novum is based on advanced spectral technology: the spectral content of the samples is analysed and the sample gets decomposed into 6 layers. If these 6 layers are played back at the same time you get your original sample. But now you can edit / realtime control each of the layers separately, eg you could use MPE to modulate the levels of each layer. Or you can draw a new envelope for this layer. Any transients in your material are of course also handled by Novum, but the approach of Novum goes _much_ further.


----------



## Peter V

Abyss is available, you can find a 10 min overview video here:  

Novum is to be released somewhere mid / end of June, the exact date is not yet set. Novum is a creative sampler / synth plugin. Novum combines spectral, granular and subtractive synthesis. With the aid of machine learning it allows you to "decompose" one sample into 6 layers. If you play these layers back at the same time you hear your original sample, but now you can edit each layer individually, eg by exchanging timbres or envelopes from other samples.

Both plugins (Abyss and Novum) have a unique workflow where different timbres are represented by different colours.


----------



## creativeforge

doctoremmet said:


> It is not released yet. It will be sold at Tracktion.
> 
> Abyss is a fantastic synthesizer that is also sold via Tracktion.


AH, so these are strictly Tracktion products, strictly working within Tracktion? 

Thanks for clarifying, Doc!


----------



## Bee_Abney

creativeforge said:


> AH, so these are strictly Tracktion products, strictly working within Tracktion?
> 
> Thanks for clarifying, Doc!



Tracktion is the vendor. They are vsts.


----------



## creativeforge

Bee_Abney said:


> Tracktion is the vendor. They are vsts.


Thanks, Bee, that's good to know.


----------



## Simeon

creativeforge said:


> AH, so these are strictly Tracktion products, strictly working within Tracktion?
> 
> Thanks for clarifying, Doc!





Bee_Abney said:


> Tracktion is the vendor. They are vsts.


Bee, you had me by a few seconds ;^)
Yes, these instruments can be used on any platform that supports VSTs.
Abyss is an amazing synth and looking at NOVUM above 🤯
I can't wait to learn more!


----------



## Peter V

It is "normal" plugin and comes as VST3 for win and AU/VST3 for max, with native support for Apple silicon. I am the creator of both these plugins. Tracktion has a program where "indie" developers like me can publish their plugin via tracktion, very much like in the classical music business: I am the band, tracktion is the record company. This allows me to focus on what I really like (creating plugins) and to avoid what I do not like so much (sales, marketing).


----------



## doctoremmet

creativeforge said:


> Thanks, Bee, that's good to know.


Honestly André, Peter is one of the more talented developers who actively participates with his users in this thread. ABYSS is a terrific synthesizer and NOVUM is going to be something else too. I highly recommend these instruments.


----------



## c0nsilience

It's also important to note that you'll be supporting a fellow artist and not a faceless and nameless corporation. This is how it should be done!


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> This allows me to focus on what I really like (creating plugins) and to avoid what I do not like so much (sales, marketing).


For not liking marketing you're doing a great job in this thread!


----------



## Peter V

Pier said:


> For not liking marketing you're doing a great job in this thread!


Well, this here feels more like "talking with fellow musicians and sound designers about something that I find exciting". And I regard it as a kind of "beta-testing", not in the sense of classical software development (of course I do this too), but more in the sense of "what are the things that need explanation" or "what is confusing" and "what excites other people". 

I guess this is called "upstream marketing", and thats something I like. More precise: I personally do not like to any activity of downstream marketing. And I have the naive believe (hope?) that a good product will find its users ... somehow 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> And I have the naive believe (hope?) that a good product will find its users ... somehow 🤷‍♂️


I'm also working on something and also have that naive hope


----------



## doctoremmet

Pier said:


> I'm also working on something and also have that naive hope


Dude, that soundpack I bought from you is done extremely well, so I predict a golden future based on the merits of your skills alone.


----------



## Pier

doctoremmet said:


> Dude, that soundpack I bought from you is done extremely well, so I predict a golden future based on the merits of your skills alone.


Thanks for your support Doctor 🙏


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> Thanks for your support Doctor 🙏


It's so good, I've been spreading vicious rumours about you out of jealousy.


----------



## creativeforge

Peter V said:


> Well, this here feels more like "talking with fellow musicians and sound designers about something that I find exciting". And I regard it as a kind of "beta-testing", not in the sense of classical software development (of course I do this too), but more in the sense of "what are the things that need explanation" or "what is confusing" and "what excites other people".
> 
> I guess this is called "upstream marketing", and thats something I like. More precise: I personally do not like to any activity of downstream marketing. And I have the naive believe (hope?) that a good product will find its users ... somehow 🤷‍♂️


Thanks Pete... may I suggest that you include a direct link to your libraries in your signature? 

Something like: Virtual Instrument Artist • See: *ABYSS* .


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> It's so good, I've been spreading vicious rumours about you out of jealousy.




Be careful Beeyonce other deviant forum users besides moi might start paying attention and respond to your unique banter………………😱


----------



## doctoremmet

@creativeforge 

This just in


----------



## tressie5

One thing I've been curious about for a while is Abyss doesn't let you import samples like, say, SoundMorph Dust or the old HG Fortune oddities which I still use. Is the engine in Abyss so powerful and deep that loading new samples would be superfluous given Abyss' sonic reach?


----------



## c0nsilience

tressie5 said:


> One thing I've been curious about for a while is Abyss doesn't let you import samples like, say, SoundMorph Dust or the old HG Fortune oddities which I still use. Is the engine in Abyss so powerful and deep that loading new samples would be superfluous given Abyss' sonic reach?


Enter Novum...


----------



## Alchemedia

doctoremmet said:


> NOVUM - post #250:
> 
> ...the spectral content of the samples is analysed and the sample gets decomposed into 6 layers.



So excited I'm having trouble keeping my composure!


----------



## Peter V

Just made the first video that shows how to work with NOVUM:


----------



## danielh02

Peter V said:


> Just made the first video that shows how to work with NOVUM:




Thanks so much for the preview - this looks fantastic! Can't wait to spend hours and hours with this!!


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> Just made the first video that shows how to work with NOVUM:



Holy mother of god. This is going to be a beast for horror stuff.


----------



## tressie5

Hi, all. I have a question about Abyss. 

One of the most interesting and dynamic audio changes you can make in Abyss is by simply moving the cursor around through the dots in the Edit window. However, as far as I can tell, I can't assign the cursor to a fader and Abyss lacks an automatic or programmable XY controller for it. I'm glad my PreSonus Studio24c has a loopback feature so I can record the cursor-affected audio in real time. I was curious, though, if Abyss could let you program movements for the dots. Thanks.


----------



## Bee_Abney

tressie5 said:


> Hi, all. I have a question about Abyss.
> 
> One of the most interesting and dynamic audio changes you can make in Abyss is by simply moving the cursor around through the dots in the Edit window. However, as far as I can tell, I can't assign the cursor to a fader and Abyss lacks an automatic or programmable XY controller for it. I'm glad my PreSonus Studio24c has a loopback feature so I can record the cursor-affected audio in real time. I was curious, though, if Abyss could let you program movements for the dots. Thanks.


Can you record the cursor movements with by latching the vst? I'm not sure if that would be possible in this case, either.

It would make for a great update; if it doesn't require masses of re-programming.


----------



## tressie5

@Bee_Abney - I just did some "record cursor movements" tests. (Is this what you meant by latching the VST?) Parameters at the top of the plugin like Pitch, FM Amt, Cutoff, Level, etc. get recorded with Cubase automation. The parameters to the right of the dots (Level, Pitch, Tune, etc) aren't recognized for automation just like the dots.


----------



## Bee_Abney

tressie5 said:


> @Bee_Abney - I just did some "record cursor movements" tests. (Is this what you meant by latching the VST?) Parameters at the top of the plugin like Pitch, FM Amt, Cutoff, Level, etc. get recorded with Cubase automation. The parameters to the right of the dots (Level, Pitch, Tune, etc) aren't recognized for automation just like the dots.


It might be. I've tried looking up how latching functions in Cubase, and everything I've seen talks of latching the controller. Like this: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_a..._expression/note_expression_latch_mode_c.html

But there should be a way to get the vst to latch so that any movements of its parameters that can be recorded will be recorded, even if you are moving it with your mouse.

In Studio One, there is a drop down menu at the top left of the vst display - outside of the GUI, but in the Studio One window that displays that GUI. This dropdown menu includes the option to Latch. Then, when I record (whether recording the whole midi information, or just recording automation over the top) it records any and every parameter that I alter with my mouse.

But this will only work if the parameters in question are at all automatable. It's just a quick way to avoid setting up that automation. So, it would record what sounds you select; but I don't know if it could record you effectively auditioning sounds as you run the cursor over them. That's why I don't think it will work. It works fine for recording knob movements, xy pads and so on, but I'm not sure that it will cover auditioning sounds.


----------



## tressie5

Yeah. I had another thorough look at Abyss, including re-setting Cubase Quick Controls to my Impact LX88+. Mouse movements just can't be recorded, but that's okay. I'm spoiled and recording its audio in real time is fine. 

One interesting thing I noticed, incidentally, is how notes are triggered from my mousepad vs LX88+. The mousepad truncates the notes, so you can tap the left button or the mousepad rhythmically, as opposed to the LX88+ where notes are played all the way through. I like the truncated notes because they're varied and would sound really good if they were sequenced or arpeggiated.


----------



## Bee_Abney

tressie5 said:


> Yeah. I had another thorough look at Abyss, including re-setting Cubase Quick Controls to my Impact LX88+. Mouse movements just can't be recorded, but that's okay. I'm spoiled and recording its audio in real time is fine.
> 
> One interesting thing I noticed, incidentally, is how notes are triggered from my mousepad vs LX88+. The mousepad truncates the notes, so you can tap the left button or the mousepad rhythmically, as opposed to the LX88+ where notes are played all the way through. I like the truncated notes because they're varied and would sound really good if they were sequenced or arpeggiated.


Record the and pop them into Kontakt or something similar and they can be! Sounds like you're onto something.


----------



## tressie5

Yep! That's exactly my thinking.


----------



## doctoremmet

Live at the moment of me posting this:


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Live at the moment of me posting this:



It's over - too soon!!


----------



## Peter V

Bee_Abney said:


> It's over - too soon!!


Its now available as video, same link.


----------



## Cepheus

Peter V said:


> Its now available as video, same link.


Peter, you created a very very very deep sonic rabbit hole 😍


----------



## ir99

Cepheus said:


> Peter, you created a very very very deep sonic rabbit hole 😍


...and I, for one, could not be happier


----------



## spektralisk

Peter V said:


> Ok, before I explain the underlying technology: *you don't need to understand any of this* or the math behind it. NOVUM comes with a user interface that is designed by musician for musicians: intuitive, inspiring and fast. Its certainly more complex than the Abyss interface - simply because it offers multiple techniques - but its designed in the same spirit.
> 
> So, NOVUM uses a combination of techniques:
> 
> The decomposition uses a machine learning technology called “Non-negative Matrix Factorisation (*NMF*)”. There is a huge body of research around NMF and a myriad of variations and applications. NMF works on the "Short-Time-Fourier-Transformation (*STFT*)", so it takes the signal and creates a 2D representation. This is interpreted as a matrix and NMF computes a low-rank approximation of the Matrix. You can afterwards use Wiener-Filtering to recover the individual layers in a way that the sum of layers gives you back the original sound. There are a couple of caveats with the normal NMF algorithms when applied to sound: the phase information is not used, transients get muddy, the envelopes are often not intuitive. So it has been a long journey for me to address these issues and come up with my own solutions - such that it really works in the context of a sound design / music instrument.
> 
> A very important aspect of designing an instrument is its interface. This goes far beyond matters of taste and how things look like. One of the advantages of representing sound with NMF layers is that you can mix and match individual elements. But for doing so you need to have some visual hints, otherwise you will always operate in the blind. This problem is one of the origins of the “represent timbres with colours” concept in Novum and Abyss. For doing so any sound is translated first into a stationary frequency representation. You can view this as a point in a (very) high dimensional space. But the colour space has only 3 dimensions, so you take hundreds and thousands of timbres and then apply dimension reduction techniques. This allows you to assign a colour to every timbre. It requires some additional work to make this intuitive (for example such that noises are gray/white or warm sounds are more orange etc).
> 
> As NOVUM anyways needs to compute the fourier transform this can also be used to modify the spectrum, so called “*spectral*” techniques. These can be very powerful, but there are two disadvantages: its heavy on CPU and when modulating you get very ugly sound artefacts. Hence I carefully chose a few things that can be done only in the spectral domain, but compute this in the background. This is the base of the "Timbre Flower" in NOVUM, that allows you to change the characteristics of a "tone colour" with one click.
> 
> SYNTIFY is another innovation in NOVUM. It is based on the idea of representing sound neither in the time domain, nor in the frequency domain, but in a so called “*nonlinear phase state*”. In this way sound becomes a trajectory of an object flying through a high dimensional abstract space. And then you can change the physics of this space to modify the trajectory and hence the sound. This is based on the theory of nonlinear dynamic systems and differential equations. It took my quite a while to make this applicable to sound, but I believe this approach is very powerful and SYNTIFY is just the first application. This is unexplored ground and currently my main area of research, so you can expect to see and hear more applications of this over the next years.
> 
> Then there are of course *classical signal processing* techniques for the modelling of an analogue filter, the comb filter, the FX. The sound generation engine itself is granular. I spent a lot of time to make this as CPU efficient as possible, so that you can have up to thousands of grains playing at the same time.
> 
> Overall its this *combination* of techniques that allows you to go beyond classical sample manipulation: decomposition into layers, spectral modification of the layers, freely exchanging timbres or envelopes, or drawing new envelopes by hand; "syntify" and comb filtering, along classical techniques like distortion and analog filter.


@Peter V After reading this, you're giving me a hope of bringing something like Alchemy back into the vst world


----------



## tressie5

@Peter V - After reading this, I had a stroke!


----------



## Peter V

tressie5 said:


> @Peter V - After reading this, I had a stroke!


You mean a math-induced brain-overflow? Sorry for that!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Could members kindly refrain from inducing math-induced brain-overflows in their fellows.

Thank you,
A concerned citizen


----------



## Peter V

Bee_Abney said:


> Could members kindly refrain from inducing math-induced brain-overflows in their fellows.
> 
> Thank you,
> A concerned citizen


Good point. I will add a warning disclaimer from now on. Like "CAUTION: this reply may contain material that can lead to severe math-induced brain-overflows in sensible people"


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> Good point. I will add a warning disclaimer from now on. Like "CAUTION: this reply may contain material that can lead to severe math-induced brain-overflows in sensible people"


Trigger warning for agreement:

That's a good idea. We should all think more carefully about warning people in advance of what we might write, in case anyone ever reads anything that they might like _too_ much.


----------



## doctoremmet

Peter V said:


> Good point. I will add a warning disclaimer from now on. Like "CAUTION: this reply may contain material that can lead to severe math-induced brain-overflows in sensible people"


We need one of those cool Explicit Lyrics logo’s that we can apply to this. People whose brains have just been fried with math-induced brain-overflows can’t read anymore and need to be warned visually.


----------



## doctoremmet

Fluffy Audio have adopted this policy too, and are using this warning now:


----------



## Marko Cifer

After watching DATABROTH's stream yesterday, NOVUM is firmly on my radar now. Abyss was cool but it just didn't click with me enough, this on the other hand... it's actually terrifying just how far up my alley it is (and seems like a really good sweet spot of controlled chaos). And pretty terrifying in and of itself, judging from the patches from yesterday's stream which practically _begged_ to be put into a sci-fi horror flick.

Can't wait to demo it for myself and then grab it ASAP.


----------



## Peter V

I made another short video on how to use Novum:


----------



## doctoremmet

Peter V said:


> I made another short video on how to use Novum:



Peter_V: the superhero who turned a recorder into an epic Bladerunner soundtrack. “Synthify B” overtones for the win!

I honestly expect the entirety of VI Control to run out and buy this. I will also start to notify family and friends me and my hard disk full of WAVs will be gone for a month or two.


----------



## grabauf

doctoremmet said:


> I honestly expect the entirety of VI Control to run out and buy this.


Count me in!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Of course, it is cheating if you use magic.


----------



## Bee_Abney

So I was inspired to try the same thing with my own recorder. (Strictly speaking, it's my brothers, but he hasn't played it for thirty-eight years, so I'm treating it as mine.) It took me around an hour, but that's partly because I wasted some time trying to learn how to convert a WAV into a usable wavetable for Falcon before switching to Pigments. The point of doing this is not to undermine the distinctiveness of Novum (it's using different modes of synthesis), nor to challenge its speedy workflow (it's much faster); but more to see the value of doing something in parallel to what it does. And taking longer and getting maybe less interesting (and certainly less distinctive _and_ varied) results.

Step 1: record the sample - the whole of the initial recording is included (I used a noise gate, an EQ and two compressors to get it to this stage) the note is C5.

Step 2: put it into IRCAM Stretch in Falcon, and use the sine rediting features to lose the noise and diminish the transients, and retune it to C3.

Step 3: create the synth patch in Pigments, importing the edited C3 sample. Two layers: one where it is imported as a wavetable, and one where it is imported as a sample for the granular oscillator. Add Pigments internal delay, reverb and EQ; two filters plus modulation.

This shows me just how amazing Novum is. I like what I came up with using the tools I as I described; but it took longer and the result is a more familiar sort of sound. Novum is going to create crazy six-band nastiness, in the best of ways.


----------



## Peter V

Bee_Abney said:


> So I was inspired to try the same thing with my own recorder.


Thanks for the illustrating example, it sounds great! 

The philosophy behind my instruments: _every_ sound can become a nuanced, playable instrument. And it is great to take real world sounds as a base - because they contain a certain organic quality that is hard to emulate. This is related to the Japanese concept of Wabi Sabi; there is value in the little imperfections. Your example showcases this principle: the recorder sample contains some natural fluctuations, and this makes the final sounds vivid and live! 

For the video I chose "recorder" because I believe this is probably the furthest away from "synth sound", but of course you can apply the same technique to anything. It also works quite nice on, well synth sounds, as you have much more shaping possibilities!


----------



## Bee_Abney

I think this should enable other Pigments users to access my preset. I don't know if I need to send you the sample separately or not.


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> So I was inspired to try the same thing with my own recorder. (Strictly speaking, it's my brothers, but he hasn't played it for thirty-eight years, so I'm treating it as mine.) It took me around an hour, but that's partly because I wasted some time trying to learn how to convert a WAV into a usable wavetable for Falcon before switching to Pigments. The point of doing this is not to undermine the distinctiveness of Novum (it's using different modes of synthesis), nor to challenge its speedy workflow (it's much faster); but more to see the value of doing something in parallel to what it does. And taking longer and getting maybe less interesting (and certainly less distinctive _and_ varied) results.
> 
> Step 1: record the sample - the whole of the initial recording is included (I used a noise gate, an EQ and two compressors to get it to this stage) the note is C5.
> 
> Step 2: put it into IRCAM Stretch in Falcon, and use the sine rediting features to lose the noise and diminish the transients, and retune it to C3.
> 
> Step 3: create the synth patch in Pigments, importing the edited C3 sample. Two layers: one where it is imported as a wavetable, and one where it is imported as a sample for the granular oscillator. Add Pigments internal delay, reverb and EQ; two filters plus modulation.
> 
> This shows me just how amazing Novum is. I like what I came up with using the tools I as I described; but it took longer and the result is a more familiar sort of sound. Novum is going to create crazy six-band nastiness, in the best of ways.


Very nice!

The Bitwig sampler has a mode where you load a sample and you get a wavetable where the playhead is. You can of course morph the wavetable by moving the playhead or just freeze its movement.

It's a really cool feature. Not sure if Novum does this too?


----------



## Peter V

Pier said:


> Very nice!
> 
> The Bitwig sampler has a mode where you load a sample and you get a wavetable where the playhead is. You can of course morph the wavetable by moving the playhead or just freeze its movement.
> 
> It's a really cool feature. Not sure if Novum does this too?



In Novum you have the granular version of it: use a very short grain size, set SPEED to 0. This freezes its movement. You can then use OFFSET to modulate he position. As it is granular you can also add jitter on the position, pan or timing of the grains to achieve special effects.


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> In Novum you have the granular version of it: use a very short grain size, set SPEED to 0. This freezes its movement. You can then use OFFSET to modulate he position. As it is granular you can also add jitter on the position, pan or timing of the grains to achieve special effects.


Right. I guess the difference is that in Bitwig the "grains" are always adjusted to waveform cycles.


----------



## Peter V

Pier said:


> Right. I guess the difference is that in Bitwig the "grains" are always adjusted to waveform cycles.


Right. If you don't put jitter on the position each grain starts at the same position. While mathematically not the same, soundwise its comparable. However, if you really want to have the wavetable sound I suggest to use, well, a wavetable synth, as the editing is much more convenient and they usually offer a great variety of tools to modify the wavetables.


----------



## Peter V

With the right amount of jitter and grain length you can also achieve nice freeze sounds. One workflow that I like: take an audio snippet from a movie or from an orchestral piece, of maybe 10 seconds length. Import it, slow it down by a large factor, and adjust the params such that the freeze sounds great. So what you get is a few minutes of slowly evolving sound -> and you can take this as the skeleton of your track. You can now layer instruments, or recreate the entire thing, with your own sounds etc. Either you leave the skeleton, or in the end you remove it.

The nice thing about this workflow is instant inspiration, and you start with a structure for the entire piece, working from coarse to fine. This avoids getting stuck in the "i have 8 bars of awesome music, but I cant make a track from it" 

A refinement of this technique is to cut various snippets together, from the same or from various sources. You can also have hard edges etc, does not matter, as the granular-ultra-slow-playback evens these out.


----------



## ir99

Peter - is there any chance of an example using some form of found sound? I'm very interested to see how it works with less melodic/musical sounds. Thanks!


----------



## doctoremmet

ir99 said:


> Peter - is there any chance of an example using some form of found sound? I'm very interested to see how it works with less melodic/musical sounds. Thanks!


There is a couple of examples in this very thread, where Peter makes music from a Donald Trump sample


----------



## doctoremmet

Posts #300 and onwards, #346 and #355


----------



## Peter V

ir99 said:


> Peter - is there any chance of an example using some form of found sound? I'm very interested to see how it works with less melodic/musical sounds. Thanks!


Thats exactly what I mean - you can also do this with your voice or field recording or anything. 
Another technique is to record a "condensed form", eg record yourself stamping and drumming with your hands or whatsoever. Often I find it easier to make a "concentrated" form in 20 seconds, in an intuitive process. With cutting multiple snippets together you can also bring the concept of "contrast" into the game, but you do this on the short version, this protects you from going into details. Once you rendered the slow, long version you stop working on the form and instead work on all the details ... but at any time you have a full version of your track. It may lack some quality here and there, but usually its much easier to identify weaknesses and correct them, then it is to start something on the greenfield.


----------



## ir99

doctoremmet said:


> There is a couple of examples in this very thread, where Peter makes music from a Donald Trump sample


...of course, thank you for the reminder. My Trump filter had removed all memory of it...


----------



## ir99

Peter V said:


> Thats exactly what I mean - you can also do this with your voice or field recording or anything.
> Another technique is to record a "condensed form", eg record yourself stamping and drumming with your hands or whatsoever. Often I find it easier to make a "concentrated" form in 20 seconds, in an intuitive process. With cutting multiple snippets together you can also bring the concept of "contrast" into the game, but you do this on the short version, this protects you from going into details. Once you rendered the slow, long version you stop working on the form and instead work on all the details ... but at any time you have a full version of your track. It may lack some quality here and there, but usually its much easier to identify weaknesses and correct them, then it is to start something on the greenfield.


...thanks for the further clarification. I may not sleep tonight for the excitement of giving this a go!


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> There is a couple of examples in this very thread, where Peter makes music from a Donald Trump sample


Too mellifluous!


----------



## Peter V

ir99 said:


> ...of course, thank you for the reminder. My Trump filter had removed all memory of it...


Thats my fault, I should have taken a different example! 

To my excuse - my thinking was: it is not too hard to take a beautifully recorded sample of a masterfully played violine into something. But if you can transform even this hatespeech voice into a nuanced, sensible, characterful instrument - then it may demonstrate the possibilities!


----------



## tressie5

@Peter V - You are one outspoken character, I'll give you that!


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> Right. If you don't put jitter on the position each grain starts at the same position. While mathematically not the same, soundwise its comparable. However, if you really want to have the wavetable sound I suggest to use, well, a wavetable synth, as the editing is much more convenient and they usually offer a great variety of tools to modify the wavetables.


Maybe I'm mistaken but AFAIK what the Bitwig sampler does is different than wt synths.

One reason is wt synths don't allow you to load long audio files you can "scan" for wavetables in real time over the complete length of the file. For example, PhasePlant allows to load 256 x 2048 samples ~= 12 seconds of audio.

Another reason is that I think the sampler in Bitwig takes into account the pitch of the original sample to detect the cycles. I'm not a wt expert at all but AFAIK wt synths just use a chunk of 2048 samples (or whatever size) and "cycle it a different speeds" (I'm sure it's more complex than that but I think that's the general idea).

Here's a video that goes into more detail than the one I posted before:




Sorry, not trying to rain on your parade 

It's just a cool feature that I wish more sample-based instruments had.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> Maybe I'm mistaken but AFAIK what the Bitwig sampler does is different than wt synths.
> 
> One reason is wt synths don't allow you to load long audio files you can "scan" for wavetables in real time over the complete length of the file. For example, PhasePlant allows to load 256 x 2048 samples ~= 12 seconds of audio.
> 
> Another reason is that I think the sampler in Bitwig takes into account the pitch of the original sample to detect the cycles. I'm not a wt expert at all but AFAIK wt synths just use a chunk of 2048 samples (or whatever size) and "cycle it a different speeds" (I'm sure it's more complex than that but I think that's the general idea).
> 
> Here's a video that goes into more detail than the one I posted before:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, not trying to rain on your parade
> 
> It's just a cool feature that I wish more sample-based instruments had.



I should probably look into wavetables and related synthesis; but I think I might be busy with Novum fairly soon.


----------



## Peter V

Pier said:


> Here's a video that goes into more detail than the one I posted before:
> 
> Sorry, not trying to rain on your parade
> It's just a cool feature that I wish more sample-based instruments had.


Ah, thx, now I got it! So to answer your question - there is no equivalent to the cycles mode in Novum. But it sounds very interesting to me, a bit related to VOSIM synthesis. Maybe thats something for me to consider for Novum II ...


----------



## hanysz

So is there any chance at all of a Linux version for Novum?


----------



## Peter V

hanysz said:


> So is there any chance at all of a Linux version for Novum?


I'd love to make all my plugins available for Linux!

Caveat: I am indie developer, so I have to be very careful with where I put my time, and supporting a different OS is quite some effort, both initial effort and then testing with every change. So this very much depends on the success of Novum and my other plugins. Hence: at release there will be VST3 for Win and VST3 and AU for Mac. A Linux version is unlikely to happen this year.


----------



## hanysz

Peter V said:


> I'd love to make all my plugins available for Linux!
> 
> Caveat: I am indie developer...A Linux version is unlikely to happen this year.


Thanks for the reply! I guess if you're working solo, and you're not going to publish the source code for others to have a go at building it, then you need to be pragmatic. I won't hold my breath for Linux versions, but I wish you every success and I'll check back next year!


----------



## Peter V

Cool - Chop Suey is featured in Germanys biggest print mag for electronic musicians beat.de


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> Cool - Chop Suey is featured in Germanys biggest print mag for electronic musicians beat.de


Congratulations! I hope it translates into lots of sales.


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> Cool - Chop Suey is featured in Germanys biggest print mag for electronic musicians beat.de


Congrats!

btw is that a tea bag?


----------



## grabauf




----------



## Duncan Krummel

Behold, N(ovum)!


----------



## c0nsilience

Novum is seriously one of the plugins to watch out for in summer 2022. Holy hell!


----------



## tressie5

Luckily, I qualify for the Able Artists Foundation and they may have a 50% discount on Novum later. One never knows.


----------



## danielh02

Can’t wait!!


----------



## Peter V

There has been the question how the decomposition in Novum is achieved. My mathy answer induced a severe brain-stack-overflow ... so here I offer a different explanation: it works like a prism that takes light and splits it into colours, Novum takes audio and splits it into tone-colours.


----------



## danielh02

Peter V said:


> There has been the question how the decomposition in Novum is achieved. My mathy answer induced a severe brain-stack-overflow ... so here I offer a different explanation: it works like a prism that takes light and splits it into colours, Novum takes audio and splits it into tone-colours.


That totally works!


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> There has been the question how the decomposition in Novum is achieved. My mathy answer induced a severe brain-stack-overflow ... so here I offer a different explanation: it works like a prism that takes light and splits it into colours, Novum takes audio and splits it into tone-colours.


The dark side of the sample


----------



## c0nsilience

The late Richard Wright would undoubtedly approve. 🙂


----------



## Fleer

Can't wait.


----------



## Alchemedia

*N*OVUM!
What did I win?


----------



## Fleer

Alchemedia said:


> *N*OVUM!
> What did I win?


Nihil sub sole


----------



## Alchemedia

Fleer said:


> Nihil sub sole


Vieil argent au clair de lune?


----------



## hanysz

Peter V said:


> ...My mathy answer induced a severe brain-stack-overflow ...


Please don't let that stop you! Some of us are just warming up! The overflowers can skip the mathy posts if they prefer.

So NMF is new to me, but I've worked with PCA before. As I understand, both techniques are about dimension reduction. An audio sample has thousands of bits of information, and you want to summarise that as a handful of key features (or sound layers if you prefer).

Google tells me that NMF is used in audio for sound source separation. If you have a recording of, say, trumpet and bass together, they're in different frequency bands so it's easy to split them out with simple filters. But if you have trumpet and violin recorded together, it's the same frequency. And yet the human ear can still hear it as two instruments each with their own identity. Perhaps something to do with coherence over time within the frequency band? NMF is trying to capture this. If you take your trumpet+violin sample and apply NMF with two dimensions, in theory you'll get one layer that's mostly trumpet, and another layer that's mostly violin. ("In theory" and "mostly" because it's not a perfect technique. Also NMF involves a few choices of algorithm and parameters, so there's more than one way it could turn out.)

Take all the above with a grain of salt. I've only learned this in the last few days. Peter V can give us the full story 

But Novum is doing an interesting variation on this theme? You could give it a sample of trumpet alone, and it still splits that sound into six layers. What does a "layer" represent in this context?

Can you give a mathy explanation? Or could you do a demo where you import a sample (anything, doesn't have to be trumpet) and solo each of the layers?


----------



## sostenuto

Alchemedia said:


> *N*OVUM!
> What did I win?


*N*ovum !! I'm next inline !! Wadda I git ?


----------



## tressie5

Yeah. "Tone-colors" is vague. I wonder if he means frequency bands?


----------



## hanysz

tressie5 said:


> Yeah. "Tone-colors" is vague. I wonder if he means frequency bands?


I'd be pretty surprised if it's frequency bands. I think something else is going on, based on Peter's earlier reference to non-negative matrix factorisation (NMF). See my post above.

I'd love to know more. Preferably with maths!


----------



## bermudagold

tressie5 said:


> Yeah. "Tone-colors" is vague. I wonder if he means frequency bands?


tone color has sometimes been used as a synonym for timbre...the character or quality of a musical sound or voice as *distinct* (independent) from its pitch and intensity (frequency and amplitude)....tone color is vague because timbre is vague and complicated...and part of timbre is psycho-acoustic....previous efforts have focused on extracting the transient content, the sinusoidal content, and the stochastic content (noise or just everything else)....so it will be interesting to see how the algorithm assesses and bins information as relevant to each other in 6 groups depending on source
the success and utility of the extraction vs the same for the resynthesis are two separate use cases and measuring sticks imo...this is well thought out and executed, so should be fun


----------



## Tomavatars

Hey there!
I've been very lucky to help Peter a bit on Novum. He allowed me to make a video about it.
I hope you'll like it! Like always, I only use one sample (the Amen Break haha).

Novum is really unique and being obsessed by granular synthesis since a long time, I found one of my new best tool.


----------



## tressie5

I think I chose the perfect time to start immersing myself in all things ambient. So many new tools!


----------



## tressie5

Oy! Now I know why Peter V doesn't like marketing and relegates that duty to Tracktion. I'm in the midst of releasing some tracks myself and, as much as I prefer the artistic side of it, I do have to pay attention to marketing, site building, promotion, yadda yadda yadda. The pain! The pain!


----------



## Oly Spart

@Peter V I'm very interested in Novum. Where could I buy it?


----------



## Peter V

Novum will be released on Saturday, 18th June via tracktion.com!


----------



## Bee_Abney

grabauf said:


>



From the Big Bang to 17th June 2022; hereafter known as the Before Times.


----------



## Bee_Abney

tressie5 said:


> Luckily, I qualify for the Able Artists Foundation and they may have a 50% discount on Novum later. One never knows.


Me too. That would be nice.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## D Halgren

doctoremmet said:


>



Awesome avatar 😊


----------



## Pier

doctoremmet said:


>



Congrats Peter. This is just amazing.

Are the samples bundled in the presets themselves?

How does the preset browser work for third party stuff? Are there folders or tags?


----------



## Peter V

Pier said:


> Are the samples bundled in the presets themselves?
> How does the preset browser work for third party stuff? Are there folders or tags?


Normally when you import a sample Novum stores the decomposed layers as one file per layer in a proprietary format, the patches just reference these files. This all happens in the background, and you don't have to take care about this. You can move or delete the source sample, the patch will continue to work. The main benefit: you can "reuse" the samples for multiple patches, this keeps the storage low. If you want you can specify the location(s) where Novum is supposed to store this data (SSD recommended). 

If you want to send just a few patches you can activate "Embed Samples in Patch". It is not recommended to use this in general, as most DAWs are notoriously slow when loading big patch data - and you loose the big advantage of sharing the sample data between patches. 

If you want to create a library you simply create a folder containing all the patches (with one level of subfolders if you want - these will appear as categories). Novum has a function "Collect all samples" - this will copy all the needed source files to your folder. This is now a "pack". Other people can register this pack simply by drag-and-drop of the folder to Novum plugin. Once registered it gets its own letter that acts as a search filter for the side-bar, and its own menu entry in the main menu. 

Note that there is no 3rd party stuff yet, but there will be additional packs released.


----------



## tressie5

Oh wow. I'd been holding off having to buy an external SSD. I guess I don't have a choice now! Actually, I'll probably just extricate my laptop's CD-ROM drive and slap a caddy with a 2TB SSD there.


----------



## c0nsilience

If you enjoyed Abyss and have a penchant for granular all the while supporting one of the hardest working solopreneur devs on the planet, I'd highly recommend investing in NOVUM. Consider it less an investment and more of an assurance to your future self that you want to be as creatively happy as you can possibly be!

Whatever mothership Peter V. is from, beam me up! 😁


----------



## danielh02

Brilliant.

And thanks for releasing on a weekend so we have time to play!


----------



## Oly Spart

Peter V said:


> Novum will be released on Saturday, 18th June via tracktion.com!


Do you know what will be the price?


----------



## flampton

So Midnight Central European? Or other time? Or you going to make me check the tracktion site every few minutes?


----------



## flampton

Hopefully Peter is not doing a last 24 hour name change again. Come tomorrow and it will be welcome to Dawesome Scientifically Plausible Sci-Fi Synth. 

And yes I was not familiar with the name Novum and it's relationship to Sci-fi until making this stupid comment so I have gained knowledge which is a win for today, haha


----------



## Markrs

This sounds pretty amazing, great work Peter!


----------



## Peter V

flampton said:


> Hopefully Peter is not doing a last 24 hour name change again. Come tomorrow and it will be welcome to Dawesome Scientifically Plausible Sci-Fi Synth.
> 
> And yes I was not familiar with the name Novum and it's relationship to Sci-fi until making this stupid comment so I have gained knowledge which is a win for today, haha


Trust me, this time I can resist the temptation of last-minute-name-change ... one of the early name candidates was "Fine Art Synth". That was killed by my son who suggested to abbreviate this as "Fart". Kids!


----------



## c0nsilience

Novum is latin for "new", which is very fitting!


----------



## kgdrum

Peter V said:


> Trust me, this time I can resist the temptation of last-minute-name-change ... one of the early name candidates was "Fine Art Synth". That was killed by my son who suggested to abbreviate this as "Fart". Kids!




Ironically I suspect naming a synth FART would actually increase sales.


----------



## Peter V

kgdrum said:


> Ironically I suspect naming a synth FART would actually increase sales.


This is one reason why I am not trying to maximise revenue / profit ...


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> Trust me, this time I can resist the temptation of last-minute-name-change ... one of the early name candidates was "Fine Art Synth". That was killed by my son who suggested to abbreviate this as "Fart". Kids!


Is it too late to rename it to Ready, Steady, Cook! then?


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Ironically I suspect naming a synth FART would actually increase sales.


A synth that draws attention to itself and has a lingering effect?

Or one that produces an output made out of the things you put into it?


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> A synth that draws attention to itself and has a lingering effect?
> 
> Or one that produces an output made out of the things you put into it?



After a night of ale,bratwurst and cheese?
how about the Bee Abney edition?

talk about lingering…………..😘


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> After a night of ale,bratwurst and cheese?
> how about the Bee Abney edition?
> 
> talk about lingering…………..😘


Thanks! I spat out a mouthful of bratwurst reading that!


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Thanks! I spat out a mouthful of bratwurst reading that!




I’m glad you are sticking with your new dietary regimen!


----------



## Pier

kgdrum said:


> Ironically I suspect naming a synth FART would actually increase sales.


Should be a modular synth though


----------



## sostenuto

Pier said:


> Should be a modular synth though


Not Granular ???


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## c0nsilience

sostenuto said:


> Not Granular ???


I think he was referring to the FART naming schema. 😁


----------



## Pier

c0nsilience said:


> I think he was referring to the FART naming schema. 😁


Exactly 😂


----------



## kgdrum

sostenuto said:


> Not Granular ???


Actually NO!
Gaseous with patented “skid mark” technology of course with variable chunk control
This is after all a specially curated synth with the latest advancements from an English pub that wants to remain nameless as it will certainly live in infamy. 😱


----------



## creativeforge

sostenuto said:


> Not Granular ???


Good reminder, though. Grains matter to good nutrition!
▼


----------



## Dirtgrain

My name is Dirtgrain, and I approve of the direction of this thread.

[That's just a diversion, as I'm sneaking to cut in line where people are camping out to get first dibs on Novum.]


----------



## creativeforge

Dirtgrain said:


> My name is Dirtgrain, and I approve of the direction of this thread.
> 
> [That's just a diversion, as I'm sneaking to cut in line where people are camping out to get first dibs on Novum.]


Edited to clean up my act.


----------



## tressie5

I'm embarrassed to be part of VI Control! Embarrassed, I tell you!


----------



## kgdrum

tressie5 said:


> I'm embarrassed to be part of VI Control! Embarrassed, I tell you!




@tressie5 

Could we please stay on topic and of course folks, let’s keep this classy.


----------



## creativeforge

kgdrum said:


> @tressie5
> 
> Could we please stay on topic and of course folks, let’s keep this classy.


You're right. My apologies to @Peter V , that was disgraceful, juvenile, on my part.


----------



## ir99

The Tracktion website was the last thing I checked before going to bed and the first thing since awaking and still no sign . Truly, this has me gripped...


----------



## Bee_Abney

ir99 said:


> The Tracktion website was the last thing I checked before going to bed and the first thing since awaking and still no sign . Truly, this has me gripped...


Yes, released on the 18th does not mean released at the beginning of the 18th.

I think that they should aim to beat Audio Imperia's Flourish nonsense and release Novum for just five minutes at some point during the day, with no information on when that five minutes will be. The available software will have mighty protections in place that make it impossible to access the programming to recreate it, and all attempts to duplicate a copy will result in total data destruction. Then, as a private joke and possibly as an act of revenge on a cruel world, @Peter V will permanently destroy the code.

Keep refreshing the Tracktion website! (Also, as an added hurdle - Novum will only show up if you retype the web address by hand.)




I may need to calm down a bit.


----------



## ir99

Bee_Abney said:


> I may need to calm down a bit.


Haha, yes, me too. Rarely has the anticipation of a plugin disturbed my sleep!


----------



## grabauf

ir99 said:


> Haha, yes, me too. Rarely has the anticipation of a plugin disturbed my sleep!


Good, that I'm not the only one.


----------



## davidson

Full marks to them for pushing the UI envelope. Not an instrument I need, but that UI is


----------



## grabauf

I think my F5 key is broken. Nothing happens when I press it on the Tracktion page.


----------



## Marko Cifer

Bee_Abney said:


> Keep refreshing the Tracktion website! (Also, as an added hurdle - Novum will only show up if you retype the web address by hand.)


There's a fixed URL, so for your F5-ing needs: https://www.tracktion.com/products/novum

Tracktion: _Access denied. You are not authorized to access this page.




_


----------



## Bee_Abney

It's coming; it's not yet arrived.

There is still time to make yourself ready.


----------



## DoubleTap

From the walkthrough video [edit: the Waveform one], Novum reminds me a bit of Factorsynth, which does the same trick of separating out sounds into different frequencies - it's Max4Live only though, as it's an Ircam thing.

And the sample-loading feature is nice - I have Luftrum's Bioscape so I probably don't need another pad generator (although when did that stop me...)

Combining those two features is pretty cool so I wonder if it's versatile enough to do things other than lengthy lushness?

We'll find out soon I expect!


----------



## Peter V

Despite my non-existing marketing budget ... Novum is now featured in one of the most iconic places of the planet!


----------



## Bee_Abney

DoubleTap said:


> From the walkthrough video, Novum reminds me a bit of Factorsynth, which does the same trick of separating out sounds into different frequencies - it's Max4Live only though, as it's an Ircam thing.
> 
> And the sample-loading feature is nice - I have Luftrum's Bioscape so I probably don't need another pad generator (although when did that stop me...)
> 
> Combining those two features is pretty cool so I wonder if it's versatile enough to do things other than lengthy lushness?
> 
> We'll find out soon I expect!


Novum is very different to Bioscape, in the technology used and in the sound shaping options. But, whether that difference is a difference that makes a difference to you, is a whole other matter!

I haven't used Factorsynth so I don't know if your description is accurate or not; but Novum is not just doing multiband processing. Though that sort of thing is a lot of fun too, and there are some practical overlaps.

I hope you like Novum; I don't know if it will hit the spot for you not! Myself, I'm pretty impressed by what I've seen and heard thus far.


----------



## Peter V

DoubleTap said:


> [ ... ] so I wonder if it's versatile enough to do things other than lengthy lushness?


There is a 90 days free trial, so I invite you to figure out!

The video of databroth showcases advanced sound mangling, the video of tomavatars works solely on the Amen Break and derives all sorts of rhythmic stuff from it.


----------



## RodStaples

Peter V said:


> Despite my non-existing marketing budget ... Novum is now featured in one of the most iconic places of the planet!


Hoping the Tracktion website will be one of them soon.


----------



## DoubleTap

Bee_Abney said:


> Novum is very different to Bioscape, in the technology used and in the sound shaping options. But, whether that difference is a difference that makes a difference to you, is a whole other matter!
> 
> I haven't used Factorsynth so I don't know if your description is accurate or not; but Novum is not just doing multiband processing. Though that sort of thing is a lot of fun too, and there are some practical overlaps.
> 
> I hope you like Novum; I don't know if it will hit the spot for you not! Myself, I'm pretty impressed by what I've seen and heard thus far.


I'd only seen the 3rd party walkthrough [edit: by Waveform], and just watched Peter's which is more impressive (but I thought it looked good anyway). Factorsynth does the same decomposition of sounds into different spectral elements (it's here if you're interested in the comparison). It's more flexible in those terms, since the number of different elements it can decompose into is variable (up to 16 I think), but Novum offers a much faster work flow once you've done the splitting - with Factorsynth you'd need to load up effects, print sounds and stick them in Simpler and so on. Six is a good number of splits to make though, and Novum is prettier too, and looks easier to get a good sound out - I'll definitely give it a go.


----------



## Dirtgrain

The splitting does remind me of Factorsynth, but that's the extent of it, as the processing of the six sections in Novum goes far beyond.

I've not used Metasynth, but I wonder how it compares with Novum in types of sound produced. I get that Metasynth can do so much, in cool ways, but might Novum make me forget about getting Metasynth?


----------



## Pier




----------



## DoubleTap

Peter V said:


> There is a 90 days free trial, so I invite you to figure out!
> 
> The video of databroth showcases advanced sound mangling, the video of tomavatars works solely on the Amen Break and derives all sorts of rhythmic stuff from it.


Hadn't seen them - I'll have a look!


----------



## kgdrum

Peter V said:


> Despite my non-existing marketing budget ... Novum is now featured in one of the most iconic places of the planet!




Do you think some of people that see this will think it’s some type of advertisement for a pharmaceutical?


----------



## Peter V

What are the typical signs that you want to have your most important release? 
1. Windows forces you to do an update. Afterwards it needs 7 attempts to restart. 
2. Your harddisc (that contains dozen of GBs with all the important material) crashes 
3. Your backup service is "temporarily out of service"
4. The mouse battery is empty and you don't have replacement at hand 
Did I miss anything?


----------



## Peter V

kgdrum said:


> Do you think some of people that see this will think it’s some type of advertisement for a pharmaceutical?


Well Novum _is_ sort of a pharmaceutical, no?


----------



## Markrs




----------



## kgdrum

Peter V said:


> Well Novum _is_ sort of a pharmaceutical, no?




My primary rule towards anything medicinal or pharmaceutical is that it must be experienced first hand.
I will have to get back to you on this.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> Well Novum _is_ sort of a pharmaceutical, no?


Oh, it's mind altering, alright!


----------



## DoubleTap

Peter V said:


> There is a 90 days free trial, so I invite you to figure out!
> 
> The video of databroth showcases advanced sound mangling, the video of tomavatars works solely on the Amen Break and derives all sorts of rhythmic stuff from it.


Oh yeah, that's really good


----------



## Peter V

Novum ships with 300+ patches, here are a few of them:


----------



## doctoremmet

Congratulations @Peter V - this is a revolutionary synth.


----------



## creativeforge

Peter V said:


> Novum ships with 300+ patches, here are a few of them:



Oh the tease! How about a link to the thing, that would be the thing... 

June 18, BY MIDNIGHT EST?


----------



## Peter V

creativeforge said:


> Oh the tease! How about a link to the thing, that would be the thing...June 18, BY MIDNIGHT EST?


I am sorry - its not meant to tease - we are working extremely hard to get it out!


----------



## Marko Cifer

Page is live! Congrats on your release! Time to do a short demo (unfortunately it'll take me a bit before I can really sink my teeth into the demo).

edit:
Intro: $125.00
Regular Price: $179.00


----------



## richmwhitfield

Looks like the page is up now


----------



## Markrs

Novum | Tracktion







www.tracktion.com


----------



## doctoremmet

Haha Mark, howcome your F5 works faster than mine 😂


----------



## creativeforge

Peter V said:


> I am sorry - its not meant to tease - we are working extremely hard to get it out!


Better ready than sorry...


----------



## Bee_Abney

And since I'm not sure if it was clear earlier, a first demo from me:



This is not just a great sound design tool, it is a wonderful instrument!


----------



## danielh02

Congratulations Peter! An awesome (Dawesome?) achievement!


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> And since I'm not sure if it was clear earlier, a first demo from me:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not just a great sound design tool, it is a wonderful instrument!



Demo availability is awesome ! Kudos Dawesome _ 👏🏻


----------



## Markrs

Possibly the best ambient synth I have ever heard. Of course it can do more than ambient, but this seems as good as I have heard for using for that style of music.


----------



## c0nsilience

Dirtgrain said:


> The splitting does remind me of Factorsynth, but that's the extent of it, as the processing of the six sections in Novum goes far beyond.
> 
> I've not used Metasynth, but I wonder how it compares with Novum in types of sound produced. I get that Metasynth can do so much, in cool ways, but might Novum make me forget about getting Metasynth?


Novum and MetaSynth are radically different. MetaSynth would be a great way to create sounds for Novum though! 🙂

I have MetaSynth + Xx, Bioscape, Lunaris, Granite, Form, Atom, Cataliz, and Abyss to name a few of the more granular, sound mangling, resplendent “ambient” tools. 

Novum is it’s own beast and a perfect compliment to any of the other plugins. The workflow and UI are unlike anything else I’ve ever used and it is inspiring beyond belief.


----------



## Sirocco

Bee_Abney said:


> And since I'm not sure if it was clear earlier, a first demo from me:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not just a great sound design tool, it is a wonderful instrument!



Did you import a sample with the "Hello, no..." and another words?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Sirocco said:


> Did you import a sample with the "Hello" word?


No, that's just pasted in the time line. I'll give importing it a try later, though; but for this I wanted the voices to contrast clearly without effects, etc. 

Sorry: it's all Novum, using the basic library samples, except for the two voices (Hello and No).


----------



## ckeddf

I wonder how useful Novum would be in a non-musical SFX context?


----------



## Sirocco

Im making macros along trying the synth, is very powerfull, with the link option is possible to get basic macros as amount and density grain for the six part togrther, is a simple function but gives a lot of fun and awesome changes, i do with Unify witch is the only one that naked all the midi controls from a plug-in and let me assign to physical cc´s on the keyboard.



What an evening!! XD, i´m granulizer by heat and by Novum.


----------



## Bee_Abney

ckeddf said:


> I wonder how useful Novum would be in a non-musical SFX context?


Definitely useful, but it is designed to lean towards music.


----------



## Marko Cifer

ckeddf said:


> I wonder how useful Novum would be in a non-musical SFX context?


Well my first attempt resulted in whatever the hell this is, so I'd say... pretty useful! (At least for Horror/Sci-fi beasties)

View attachment SomethingFromTheDepths.mp3


If I had more time right now I could probably tweak it further, make sure some things don't overlap, evolve it, etc. - also when I kept looping the session, it would give me further subtle alterations to these noises.

edit: Source was a sample of a clock rattling.


----------



## Galois

Hi Peter,

amazing synth! I'm actually speechless, this is amazing.
One question: in the manual it says that when combining sounds, you can select timbre and envelope independently (page 10). When I drag and drop either the full sample or single layers, it only changes both. Was this feature changed before release or am I missing something here?

Edit: to clarify: I tried with holding shift.


----------



## Pier

ckeddf said:


> I wonder how useful Novum would be in a non-musical SFX context?


Novum is going to be a horror powerhouse.


----------



## Peter V

Galois said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> amazing synth! I'm actually speechless, this is amazing.
> One question: in the manual it says that when combining sounds, you can select timbre and envelope independently (page 10). When I drag and drop either the full sample or single layers, it only changes both. Was this feature changed before release or am I missing something here?
> 
> Edit: to clarify: I tried with holding shift.


Just verified that it is working here. Open a patch on the sidebar. Hold Shift. While holding shift click on on of the dots and drop it to one of the timbre-dots in the main patch. It shows "DROP TIMBRE" while you are over it. Now release the mouse button, then release shift. 




If this does not work please send me pm and we will get this fixed.


----------



## Peter V

ckeddf said:


> I wonder how useful Novum would be in a non-musical SFX context?


There are quite a few SFX patches in the "Artist" sections. I will also do a video on this once the hot phase of the release is behind me. 

Here my "recipe". You don't need to follow it exactly, its just a few ideas: 
* start with a noisy sound source. Almost anything will do
* the amount of transients in the source should reflect the direction of your intended SFX 
* import into Novum
* use the comb filter and find a setting that roughly has the sound character you want 
* you can use pitch per layer to add more variety, as the comb will "respond" to these 
* re-draw the envelopes to shape the temporal evolution 
* add multiple LFOs. For impacts put them in one-shot mode
* use LFOs to modulate: gains per layer, combfilter parameters, syntify, and distortion 
* use eg modwheel or velocity to slightly modulate the rates of the LFO. This is simple way to add variation

Now store this patch. And use it to drop other samples on the waveform - the modulation and everything will be the same, but it will always sound different. In this way you create dozens of similar but different sounds of the family. 

For example when you are designing laser impact sounds you create one template patch as above, and then you take a dozen different source samples. In this way every impact will sound different, but they will all have a similar character and hence are perceived as coherent in the game/film setting.


----------



## Peter V

Forgot to mention: for hits and impacts use normal kicks or drums, can be acoustic or synthetic. Then slow it down, ideally with granular. You can do this in Novum, or you can use your DAW. Its supposed to sound crappy, you want the sound to be chopped up, so choose an otherwise inappropriate setting in your DAW. I prefer doing this in DAW because I can make the setting once, drop 20 other samples on the same track, render them once with one click, very efficient workflow. 

Now you can use these as raw material in Novum, with the recipe described above. The main trick is the comb filter combined with distortion - that turns noisy transient material into SFX.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Sirocco said:


> Did you import a sample with the "Hello, no..." and another words?




This is just the one word, spoken once - 'Hello' - and a few minutes with Novum.

I think it sounds pretty good. And this with only a very limited use of all the possibilities offered.


----------



## Galois

Peter V said:


> Just verified that it is working here. Open a patch on the sidebar. Hold Shift. While holding shift click on on of the dots and drop it to one of the timbre-dots in the main patch. It shows "DROP TIMBRE" while you are over it. Now release the mouse button, then release shift.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this does not work please send me pm and we will get this fixed.


Aahhh thanks! I wasn't aiming for the little dot. User error, as expected


----------



## Bee_Abney

Galois said:


> Aahhh thanks! I wasn't aiming for the little dot. User error, as expected


On the plus side, you've now helped everyone else here!


----------



## Peter V

Galois said:


> Aahhh thanks! I wasn't aiming for the little dot. User error, as expected


Well, Novum is a very deep instrument with a ton of possibilities. On page 11 in the user guide there is an overview of the various drag-and-drop possibilities:


----------



## Sirocco

The part of autom. w/ hardware control, a paradise for click, turn on/off, swipe, move left, right, dive...XD


----------



## Bee_Abney

Sirocco said:


> Did you import a sample with the "Hello, no..." and another words?


I just realised that you mentioned another word. That was hello backwards. I also stretched the sample so that I got three versions of hello forwards and one backwards out of one recording.

The sample of 'No' was the only track I applied EQ to, just because the sample actually had quite a bit of spectral range (partly the voice, and partly noise) and I wanted to narrow it down.


----------



## doctoremmet

Look! This thread made the manual - we’re in the credits, and so is Bee!

Awesome touch

❤️


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Look! This thread made the manual - we’re in the credits, and so is Bee!
> 
> Awesome touch
> 
> ❤️


And to think, I've been trying to undermine Peter at every point! I have to work on my sabotage skills.


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> And to think


This is you directly quoting Hellraiser II yeah? (I hope!)



Thinking of great horror scores… it would be cool if mister @charlieclouser could get his hands on NOVUM. Something tells me it is right up his alley…


----------



## doctoremmet

Or Christopher Young for that matter. He kind of likes his synths too.

Are we even sure he didn’t make this with an alpha version of NOVUM?


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> This is you directly quoting Hellraiser II yeah? (I hope!)
> 
> 
> 
> Thinking of great horror scores… it would be cool if mister @charlieclouser could get his hands on NOVUM. Something tells me it is right up his alley…




I wish I were that cool...


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> I wish I were that cool...


You’re in the NOVUM manual, which arguably is a hell of a lot cooler


----------



## Pier

doctoremmet said:


> You’re in the NOVUM manual, which arguably is a hell of a lot cooler


There's no arguing with the Doctor!


----------



## doctoremmet

@Composer Daniel Willett Would love to watch you do a presentation on NOVUM, using it on a dedicated composition


----------



## Markrs

It is $90.22 (basically 50% off) on JRRshop with the code Group. That is a damn hard deal to turn down!


----------



## sostenuto

Markrs said:


> It is $90.22 (basically 50% off) on JRRshop with the code Group. That is a damn hard deal to turn down!


OMG !! _ and Presets galore _ my kinda novum, for sure ! 🎈


----------



## Markrs

I gave in and bought it. I should never buy things late in the evening, but the price is too good and I don't think it will ever be much lower as Traktion sales are normally 50% off at most.


----------



## Drumdude2112

HOLY MUDDA !!….This thing is CRAZY !!
LOVE it , instabuy !!! i’ll be ignoring my wife the next couple days if anyone needs me lol 😂


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> And to think, I've been trying to undermine Peter at every point! I have to work on my sabotage skills.



Dearest Beeyonce 
Like I keep telling you, 
AIM LOWER!


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Dearest Beeyonce
> Like I keep telling you,
> AIM LOWER!


I should start by sabotaging you? But you don't do anything to sabotage!

(Too cruel? Not cruel enough?)


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> I should start by sabotaging you? But you don't do anything to sabotage!
> 
> (Too cruel? Not cruel enough?)




Amateur


----------



## Bee_Abney

I tried... Oh, well.


----------



## doctoremmet

doctoremmet said:


>


@venustheory 

Yes people. The man has arrived….


----------



## venustheory

doctoremmet said:


> @venustheory
> 
> Yes people. The man has arrived….


🤠

But yeah - extremely tired of YouTube 'reviewtube' stuff and avoiding it at all costs anymore. That side of things has just gotten really scummy and I don't want to contribute to it (not speaking about Peter / Tracktion here in any way, they're dope).

As well, since basically everyone gets the same gear/plugins/etc it just seems dumb to me to create what amounts to the same video showing the same features/specs because I seldom feel like I have anything really unique to contribute to that sort of discussion.

I've been putting a ton of focus on shifting the direction of the channel to a more educational space and diving more into the subjects I'm interested in (theory/songwriting/creative psychology and philosophy) and that seems to have been working out pretty well.

Definitely planning to do a video on Novum / Abyss (way overdue) but just haven't found the right angle quite yet.

Extremely interesting synth so far, and I am beyond in love with the work Peter has been doing.

Just gotta keep things in the oven until I feel they're ready haha.


----------



## Markrs

venustheory said:


> I've been putting a ton of focus on shifting the direction of the channel to a more educational space and diving more into the subjects I'm interested in (theory/songwriting/creative psychology and philosophy) and that seems to have been working out pretty well.


I think this is a great approach and totally agree that some reviews seem to add little understanding a product beyond a feature list and how everything is amazing. 

The key for me is, how can I use this product to create music I am proud of, that works with other things, especially free things like pianobook/labs, Vital, etc. I sometimes think there is a desire to create everything with one synth, which can be possible, but I think it is better to use it in a way that allows exploration and creativity and use other products that allow it to shine.


----------



## doctoremmet

venustheory said:


> 🤠
> 
> But yeah - extremely tired of YouTube 'reviewtube' stuff and avoiding it at all costs anymore. That side of things has just gotten really scummy and I don't want to contribute to it (not speaking about Peter / Tracktion here in any way, they're dope).
> 
> As well, since basically everyone gets the same gear/plugins/etc it just seems dumb to me to create what amounts to the same video showing the same features/specs because I seldom feel like I have anything really unique to contribute to that sort of discussion.
> 
> I've been putting a ton of focus on shifting the direction of the channel to a more educational space and diving more into the subjects I'm interested in (theory/songwriting/creative psychology and philosophy) and that seems to have been working out pretty well.
> 
> Definitely planning to do a video on Novum / Abyss (way overdue) but just haven't found the right angle quite yet.
> 
> Extremely interesting synth so far, and I am beyond in love with the work Peter has been doing.
> 
> Just gotta keep things in the oven until I feel they're ready haha.


Yes, I feel you on this. FWIW, your recent video on free stuff was brilliant in that regard, as it was clearly NOT just another video that namechecks a bunch, but it showcases some actual great use cases. Although I have to say, all of your content has always had that “hands on” approach that is way more valuable than just highlighting a bunch of presets.


----------



## Pier

venustheory said:


> 🤠
> 
> But yeah - extremely tired of YouTube 'reviewtube' stuff and avoiding it at all costs anymore. That side of things has just gotten really scummy and I don't want to contribute to it (not speaking about Peter / Tracktion here in any way, they're dope).
> 
> As well, since basically everyone gets the same gear/plugins/etc it just seems dumb to me to create what amounts to the same video showing the same features/specs because I seldom feel like I have anything really unique to contribute to that sort of discussion.
> 
> I've been putting a ton of focus on shifting the direction of the channel to a more educational space and diving more into the subjects I'm interested in (theory/songwriting/creative psychology and philosophy) and that seems to have been working out pretty well.
> 
> Definitely planning to do a video on Novum / Abyss (way overdue) but just haven't found the right angle quite yet.
> 
> Extremely interesting synth so far, and I am beyond in love with the work Peter has been doing.
> 
> Just gotta keep things in the oven until I feel they're ready haha.


Welcome Cameron!

You have a lot of fans around these parts!


----------



## Dirtgrain

Oh, how much


Markrs said:


> It is $90.22 (basically 50% off) on JRRshop with the code Group. That is a damn hard deal to turn down!


WTF? I paid $125 this morning, an intro price. Come on--that is some shiite. What kind of business does that? I'm pissed.


----------



## rnb_2

Dirtgrain said:


> Oh, how much
> 
> WTF? I paid $125 this morning, an intro price. Come on--that is some shiite. What kind of business does that? I'm pissed.


This is how retailers get you to buy from them instead of direct. They make a little less per sale, but they have no other costs associated with the sale (where Tracktion/Peter have support/server/etc costs). If it makes you feel any better, you are almost certainly getting more money into Peter's hands than you would by buying from JRR.


----------



## Dirtgrain

Ya, I'm familiar with how it goes with Best Service and such, but this the worst I've seen such a thing--on intro. It's absurd: $35 cheaper, 28% cheaper. Oh well, at least I can't stomach doing business with JRR after how E did a disappearing act when they got hacked.


----------



## Alchemedia

Dirtgrain said:


> Ya, I'm familiar with how it goes with Best Service and such, but this the worst I've seen such a thing--on intro. It's absurd: $35 cheaper, 28% cheaper. Oh well, at least I can't stomach doing business with JRR after how E did a disappearing act when they got hacked.



On the contrary, Uncle E's a good egg.


----------



## Sirocco

One month ago, or so, happened the same with the 3 new Audiofier´s Veevums; the price at Jrr Shop, 3 days after the launch, it was cheaper than the intro price from Audiofier, it was a little diference because the product price was arond 30$ each, but the first day discount was cheaper than the developer intro price.

This time has been instantly at the "minute" launch of the product.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Markrs said:


> It is $90.22 (basically 50% off) on JRRshop with the code Group. That is a damn hard deal to turn down!


This is the only reason I’m considering it (that and me bypassing the iZotope glitch!). Not sure I’d use a granular synth enough to warrant a high price, but I’ve been holding off until I find “the one”…. That makes any kind of sense to me whatsoever. I have the demo installed and will be using it this weekend.

One of the best things so far is dragging samples into the existing presets to see what happens.


----------



## tressie5

Good Lord! Only the first day of release and YT "reviewers" are already leapfrogging over each other to record their "First Look" videos. Nevertheless, I'm proud of Peter V's success and I also like the fact that he posts here and talks to us serfs like we're worthy. 

In other news, I just downloaded Novum so I'll fire it up anon.


----------



## tressie5

Update: An exercise in frustration, but solved. To wit:
Loading Novum's sound bank into Novum in Cubase 12 proved to be a royal pain as Cubase doesn't display its VSTi's when you have your sound bank's location folder window also open. I had to use Studio One to load the banks. Obviously, I must be doing something in Cubase. Nevertheless, I got it working.

Also, Novum's "loading sounds" way was made more confusing because the manual contradicted itself. It said to first unzip the soundbank, then drag it unzipped to Novum. Huh? Since I'd already unzipped it, I just dragged the folder ro Novum and it worked. @Peter V , couldn't you have just had a drop down menu in Novum where we could simply point to where we placed the soundbank?


----------



## tressie5

The words I can use to describe Novum are mesmerizing, hypnotic and aethereal. And, oh yes, a dream to play for us ambient guys. Well done, Peter. Take a bow.


----------



## Alchemedia

tressie5 said:


> Update: An exercise in frustration, but solved. To wit:
> 
> Also, Novum's "loading sounds" way was made more confusing because the manual contradicted itself. It said to first unzip the soundbank, then drag it unzipped to Novum. Huh? Since I'd already unzipped it, I just dragged the folder ro Novum and it worked. @Peter V , couldn't you have just had a drop down menu in Novum where we could simply point to where we placed the soundbank?



Didn't work for me in Reaper. Registered demo, unzipped sound bank, dragged basics folder to Novum + voila! Nothing happens. However, it did work in Bitwig.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Tip for increasing the "horror" aspect: Freakshow Industries on top of Novum. Say... Dumpster Fire is a good start. Turn down the Novum output a bit first, though. I'm going to then maybe add Shaperbox2 and then Supermassive or probably SB2 after Supermassive to make it rhythmic? Then throw on some Backmask. CHAOS! hehe


----------



## Alchemedia

vitocorleone123 said:


> Tip for increasing the "horror" aspect: Freakshow Industries on top of Novum. Say... Dumpster Fire is a good start. Turn down the Novum output a bit first, though. I'm going to then maybe add Shaperbox2 and then Supermassive or probably SB2 after Supermassive to make it rhythmic? CHAOS! hehe


With that signal chain you don't even need Novum for chaos.


----------



## Alchemedia

I noticed a few patches were either created by Bee or named in her honor such as "Aftermath Bee" and "Bee Dirty", which is particularly buzzworthy.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Alchemedia said:


> I noticed a few patches were either created by Bee or named in her honor such as "Aftermath Bee" and "Bee Dirty", which is particularly buzzworthy.


Having your name show up in a plugin must take a bit of the sting out of the cost.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Alchemedia said:


> I noticed a few patches were either created by Bee or named in her honor such as "Aftermath Bee" and "Bee Dirty", which is particularly buzzworthy.


A little while back, Peter had asked for any 'challenging' samples so he could demonstrate what Novum could do. I sent him a dense overlay of noises and it got used as one of the samples.

And now I'm famous! The paparazzi are at my door and The Guardian have several articles exposing my lack of ideological purity.

As a bonus, though, he gave me access to a special version of Novum several hours early in which there is an Aritist Bank named 'You' with my sample in it.

Now that was really sweet of him!

Thank you Peter!


----------



## Peter V

tressie5 said:


> Update: An exercise in frustration, but solved. To wit:
> Loading Novum's sound bank into Novum in Cubase 12 proved to be a royal pain as Cubase doesn't display its VSTi's when you have your sound bank's location folder window also open. I had to use Studio One to load the banks. Obviously, I must be doing something in Cubase. Nevertheless, I got it working.
> 
> Also, Novum's "loading sounds" way was made more confusing because the manual contradicted itself. It said to first unzip the soundbank, then drag it unzipped to Novum. Huh? Since I'd already unzipped it, I just dragged the folder ro Novum and it worked. @Peter V , couldn't you have just had a drop down menu in Novum where we could simply point to where we placed the soundbank?


Sue, will do, good idea!


----------



## tressie5

Earlier, I'd written how I couldn't load the soundbank into Novum in Cubase because Novum disappeared every time I accessed the drive with the soundbank, and this forced me to use Studio One. I did some digging and found out I first had to go to the Functions tab in the plugin and uncheck Always On Top. This allowed the plugin to be visible as well as the HDD with the soundbank folder.


----------



## Peter V

tressie5 said:


> [... ] couldn't you have just had a drop down menu in Novum where we could simply point to where we placed the soundbank?


Thanks for the proposal - I just implemented it. When you just installed Novum and there is no soundpack registered it shows up as the very first menu entry. Once you installed the main pack the menu entry is grouped with the others that deal with locations / packs. 
Thank you for helping making Novum (even) better! This will be part of the next version.


----------



## Peter V

If you have feedback you can always mail to peter at dawesomemusic dot com - in this way its assured that the message reaches me ( postings can easily slip through my attention ).


----------



## Peter V

Alchemedia said:


> I noticed a few patches were either created by Bee or named in her honor such as "Aftermath Bee" and "Bee Dirty", which is particularly buzzworthy.


Yes, there are seven "BEE" patches are in honour of @Bee_Abney who donated a sample. The original sample as well as a little track created using only this sample and Novum can be found here: here


----------



## tressie5

Bee For President! Bee For President! Vote Bee 2024! Rah! Rah! Rah!


----------



## Bee_Abney

tressie5 said:


> Bee For President! Bee For President! Vote Bee 2024! Rah! Rah! Rah!


I couldn't even get voted president of the 'We Hate Bee' society. My mother won.

I voted for her too; she's just much better than I am...


----------



## tressie5

To show my appreciation to VI Control, I created this ambient track called Drone In B. (See what I did there?) I'm using Novum with Bee's Dirty Orbital added for flavour.


----------



## RodStaples

tressie5 said:


> Update: An exercise in frustration, but solved. To wit:
> Loading Novum's sound bank into Novum in Cubase 12 proved to be a royal pain as Cubase doesn't display its VSTi's when you have your sound bank's location folder window also open. I had to use Studio One to load the banks. Obviously, I must be doing something in Cubase. Nevertheless, I got it working.
> 
> Also, Novum's "loading sounds" way was made more confusing because the manual contradicted itself. It said to first unzip the soundbank, then drag it unzipped to Novum. Huh? Since I'd already unzipped it, I just dragged the folder ro Novum and it worked. @Peter V , couldn't you have just had a drop down menu in Novum where we could simply point to where we placed the soundbank?


I have Cubase 12 and was able to do it easily.

What you have to do is right click the VSTi window, and disable 'always on top'.
Then it will stay visible when you select the explorer window.

Then you can reenable 'always on top' afterwards.


----------



## grabauf

Peter V said:


> Thanks for the proposal - I just implemented it. When you just installed Novum and there is no soundpack registered it shows up as the very first menu entry. Once you installed the main pack the menu entry is grouped with the others that deal with locations / packs.
> Thank you for helping making Novum (even) better! This will be part of the next version.



That's what I call (D)awesome customer service. Danke, Peter!


----------



## freecham

tressie5 said:


> To show my appreciation to VI Control, I created this ambient track called Drone In B. (See what I did there?) I'm using Novum with Bee's Dirty Orbital added for flavour.



Well drone !


----------



## Sirocco

tressie5 said:


> To show my appreciation to VI Control, I created this ambient track called Drone In B. (See what I did there?) I'm using Novum with Bee's Dirty Orbital added for flavour.



I was listening SomaFm Drone zone, just click on your drone, engaged perfect in my sunday mood...XD, great drone!! thanks.


----------



## Bee_Abney

tressie5 said:


> To show my appreciation to VI Control, I created this ambient track called Drone In B. (See what I did there?) I'm using Novum with Bee's Dirty Orbital added for flavour.








That's beautiful! I listened to it straight through twice already.


----------



## doctoremmet

Look:



The maestro….


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Look:
> 
> 
> 
> The maestro….



There are a lot of DJs in the world, but only one DM.

DM Simon Stockhausen.

Da Man.


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> A little while back, Peter had asked for any 'challenging' samples so he could demonstrate what Novum could do. I sent him a dense overlay of noises and it got used as one of the samples.
> 
> And now I'm famous! The paparazzi are at my door and The Guardian have several articles exposing my lack of ideological purity.
> 
> As a bonus, though, he gave me access to a special version of Novum several hours early in which there is an Aritist Bank named 'You' with my sample in it.
> 
> Now that was really sweet of him!
> 
> Thank you Peter!


Will you remember us poor plebs when you're a billionaire?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> Will you remember us poor plebs when you're a billionaire?


Cognitively, yes. In practical terms, not a chance.


----------



## kgdrum

tressie5 said:


> Bee For President! Bee For President! Vote Bee 2024! Rah! Rah! Rah!




President? What about her current aspiration with overseeing proper shower etiquette is practiced in various locations throughout the United Kingdom including convents, the entire penal system and all of the public bath houses and spas while she discreetly records 🚿 samples for her creative endeavors?


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> That's beautiful! I listened to it straight through twice already.



Yo Beeyonce 
I thought you were past showing the entire VI-C community your dirty orbital? I feel somewhat betrayed! 🤬


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Leslie Fuller

Bee_Abney said:


> A little while back, Peter had asked for any 'challenging' samples so he could demonstrate what Novum could do. I sent him a dense overlay of noises and it got used as one of the samples.
> 
> And now I'm famous! The paparazzi are at my door and The Guardian have several articles exposing my lack of ideological purity.
> 
> As a bonus, though, he gave me access to a special version of Novum several hours early in which there is an Aritist Bank named 'You' with my sample in it.
> 
> Now that was really sweet of him!
> 
> Thank you Peter!


Let’s hope the Guardian don’t do any investigating into those Nuns who may, or may not, form part of the “dense overlay of noises”. 😂🤪


----------



## kgdrum

Leslie Fuller said:


> Let’s hope the Guardian don’t do any investigating into those Nuns who may, or may not, form part of the “dense overlay of noises”. 😂🤪




As long as they release the accompanying video I’m actually looking forward to the Guardian’s coverage of Bee’s shower romps it will probably be the highlight of investigational reporting,docu-dramas & mini-series for 2022!


----------



## stixman

The Bee’s Knee’s 😎


----------



## Bee_Abney

I'm beginning to think I'm not needed in this conversation. The truth is revealing itself quite well without my contribution!


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm beginning to think I'm not needed in this conversation. The truth is revealing itself quite well without my contribution!




Never underestimate the power of innuendo,forum induced blackmail schemes and good old fashioned coercion.


----------



## spektralisk

Not only this has amazing sonic possibilities but the workflow in great as well.


----------



## D Halgren

spektralisk said:


> Not only this has amazing sonic possibilities but the workflow in great as well.


Can't wait to see what you do with it👍


----------



## Bee_Abney

This will be great for generating new and unusual samples to put into other synths - Abyss certainly!

But for anyone making a preset pack for a synth that can take samples, I can imagine that this is going to see quite a bit of use! (Assuming the EULA allows that - I should check.)


----------



## Peter V

Bee_Abney said:


> This will be great for generating new and unusual samples to put into other synths - Abyss certainly!
> 
> But for anyone making a preset pack for a synth that can take samples, I can imagine that this is going to see quite a bit of use! (Assuming the EULA allows that - I should check.)


Do you really think I am the guy who hires a dozen lawyers to create limiting EULA? For sure the EULA allows this, may the creative force be with you!


----------



## spektralisk

D Halgren said:


> Can't wait to see what you do with it👍


Thanks. I can't wait to work with it. Abyss first though


----------



## spektralisk

Peter V said:


> Do you really think I am the guy who hires a dozen lawyers to create limiting EULA? For sure the EULA allows this, may the creative force be with you!


That's the easy-going attitude I like in people. I wish you a lot of success with this! (you're probably already )


----------



## Peter V

spektralisk said:


> That's the easy-going attitude I like in people. I wish you a lot of success with this! (you're probably already )


I am from an ancient generation where you seal contracts with a handshake.


----------



## spektralisk

Peter V said:


> I am from an ancient generation where you seal contracts with a handshake.


I will gladly shake hands with you if we ever meet


----------



## Peter V

spektralisk said:


> I will gladly shake hands with you if we ever meet


Same here. I also accept virtual fist bumps in online video calls


----------



## ckeddf

Peter V said:


> There are quite a few SFX patches in the "Artist" sections. I will also do a video on this once the hot phase of the release is behind me.
> 
> Here my "recipe". You don't need to follow it exactly, its just a few ideas:
> * start with a noisy sound source. Almost anything will do
> * the amount of transients in the source should reflect the direction of your intended SFX
> * import into Novum
> * use the comb filter and find a setting that roughly has the sound character you want
> * you can use pitch per layer to add more variety, as the comb will "respond" to these
> * re-draw the envelopes to shape the temporal evolution
> * add multiple LFOs. For impacts put them in one-shot mode
> * use LFOs to modulate: gains per layer, combfilter parameters, syntify, and distortion
> * use eg modwheel or velocity to slightly modulate the rates of the LFO. This is simple way to add variation
> 
> Now store this patch. And use it to drop other samples on the waveform - the modulation and everything will be the same, but it will always sound different. In this way you create dozens of similar but different sounds of the family.
> 
> For example when you are designing laser impact sounds you create one template patch as above, and then you take a dozen different source samples. In this way every impact will sound different, but they will all have a similar character and hence are perceived as coherent in the game/film setting.


Thank you for your response, much appreciated! Looking forward to more videos. Congrats on the release, it certainly looks like a very inspiring and well designed instrument.


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> Same here. I also accept virtual fist bumps in online video calls


👊


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> Same here. I also accept virtual fist bumps in online video calls




Oops! Wrong emoji!


----------



## c0nsilience

Does anyone else besides me think Novum is likely to revolutionize artistic expression? It's brand new and is already in my top 5 VSTs of all time. The absurdity of how ridiculously good this is makes me smile. It is that good!! 😁


----------



## sostenuto

Sad that Cameron (Venus Theory) does not view Novum _ as salient enough _ to rethink, and do a very detailed tutorial ! 😢 

Such positive, enthusiastic, reception here, will purchase now, with high hopes for successful learning and usage _ over time. 🤞🏻 

C'mon Cameron ! Plz give this a shot ! 🎯


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Sad that Cameron (Venus Theory) does not view Novum _ as salient enough _ to rethink, and do a very detailed tutorial ! 😢
> 
> Such positive, enthusiastic, reception here, will purchase now, with high hopes for successful learning and usage _ over time. 🤞🏻
> 
> C'mon Cameron ! Plz give this a shot ! 🎯


Did he say that! Where - I must go and downvote that comment!


----------



## Pier

sostenuto said:


> Sad that Cameron (Venus Theory) does not view Novum _ as salient enough _ to rethink, and do a very detailed tutorial ! 😢
> 
> Such positive, enthusiastic, reception here, will purchase now, with high hopes for successful learning and usage _ over time. 🤞🏻
> 
> C'mon Cameron ! Plz give this a shot ! 🎯


It's just that he doesn't want to make the typical Youtube video "NOVUM review".

Probably looking for a different angle.


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Did he say that! Where - I must go and downvote that comment!





Pier said:


> It's just that he doesn't want to make the typical Youtube video "NOVUM review".
> 
> Probably looking for a different angle.


Recently read his extended statement. Will try to locate and Link. 
Confident VT can do a truly thorough, valued, YT _ which will be instructive and useful for many. 🙏🏻

Dawesome continues to provide excellent video support !! _ no critique whatsoever. 
Simply looking for VT special perspectives.


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Did he say that! Where - I must go and downvote that comment!


Looking for Link. Unsure of source.


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Looking for Link. Unsure of source.


Don't worry. I'd be interested to read it; but it isn't that important. While Venus Theory makes great videos, so do the people who've made the videos we've had already - Tomavatars and PeterV.

Did Pluginguru do one yet? If not, I'm sure he'll be covering it on his livestream.


----------



## c0nsilience

From what I understand, VT is backlogged. Would be nice if Loopop reviewed VSTs. 

I’m sure someone from this thread can give it a go and do Novum justice. 🙂


----------



## doctoremmet

c0nsilience said:


> From what I understand, VT is backlogged


Not really. He stated he’s grown tired of “reviewtube” videos and wants to make a NOVUM video in time, when he has had some actual time with it and can make a video from his own experience and POV, rather than “getting it out while it’s hot”. 

I am not saying he’s not backlogged though, he may very well be. But this is the impression I got from him.


----------



## kgdrum

doctoremmet said:


> Not really. He stated he’s grown tired of “reviewtube” videos and wants to make a NOVUM video in time, when he has had some actual time with it and can make a video from his own experience and POV, rather than “getting it out while it’s hot”.
> 
> I am not saying he’s not backlogged though, he may very well be. But this is the impression I got from him.




+1

I got the impression that Venus Theory is tired of competing with a glut of “pseudo reviews” that YouTube is inundated with that are more promotional rather than an actual detailed review.


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> +1
> 
> I got the impression that Venus Theory is tired of competing with a glut of “pseudo reviews” that YouTube is inundated with that are more promotional rather than an actual detailed review.


Also, if he wants to do promotion, I suspect he can get enough paid gigs doing walkthroughs that it doesn't make financial sense to rely on the various ways that YouTubers make money out of that platform. He can get paid by UVI instead; and keep his own channel for more personal stuff.


----------



## kgdrum

Well I am happy to report I actually just placed my order for NOVUM 👍
I’m looking forward to installing and checking this fascinating new creation from @Peter V 

Hopefully in the next week or two………..


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Well I am happy to report I actually just placed my order for NOVUM 👍
> I’m looking forward to installing and checking this fascinating new creation from @Peter V
> 
> Hopefully in the next week or two………..


I'm glad you're busy, it will keep you out of mischief.

Unless you are busy with mischief.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm glad you're busy, it will keep you out of mischief.
> 
> Unless you are busy with mischief.




On the contrary my friend with oddly tough and heavy baseball mitt type 👄 
I already consider NOVUM to be a mischief machine!


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## muziksculp

I didn't check Novum out yet, or watch any of the videos. 

2 Questions :

1. Can I use my own samples in Novum ?
2. Can it be played expressively ? or is it more for ambient sounds/atmospheres creation ? 

Thanks.


----------



## c0nsilience

muziksculp said:


> I didn't check Novum out yet, or watch any of the videos.
> 
> 2 Questions :
> 
> 1. Can I use my own samples in Novum ?
> 2. Can it be played expressively ? or is it more for ambient sounds/atmospheres creation ?
> 
> Thanks.


Yes and yes.

Check out the demo


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> Can I use my own samples in Novum ?


That’s the whole premise / raison d’être of NOVUM. Drag and drop a sample and create 6 layers of awesomeness



muziksculp said:


> 2. Can it be played expressively ? or is it more for ambient sounds/atmospheres creation ?


It renders fully playable sounds. Easy to make leads, plucks, pads. It even supports MPE.

Watch this one:



Quick preset overview vid:


----------



## bermudagold

doctoremmet said:


>



social media...gift or curse?...push at best lol


----------



## doctoremmet

bermudagold said:


> social media...gift or curse?...push at best lol


¿Que? Talking to me? I just post links here haha, but at this point in time I kind of despise the entirety of the internet, am in favour of severely restricting voting rights of people that don’t agree with me and think humanity as a lifeform is severely overrated and disproves any notion of survival of the fittest let alone “intelligent” design. Does that answer your questions?


----------



## muziksculp

OK, very impressive stuff it can do. Wow ! 

One detail I'm not very clear about, so when a sample is imported, Novum creates 6 layers for it ? what does each layer represent ? I know they can be edited separately, but what does the engine do to produce 6 unique layers from the raw sample it imported ?


----------



## doctoremmet

Please Tarek… I’m tired. Just pretend this thread is about strings and just read the damn thing. Or watch the 7 minute tutorial


----------



## muziksculp

Tracktion is producing some awesome virtual instruments ! They are surely on a Roll. I love their F'em (FM) synth.  Now NOVUM is on my high-GAS list of to buy products.


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> Please Tarek… I’m tired. Just pretend this thread is about strings and just read the damn thing. Or watch the 7 minute tutorial


Hey Temme, Give yourself a break from this thread, and let others handle my annoying questions, even if they are not Strings related


----------



## bermudagold

doctoremmet said:


> ¿Que? Talking to me? I just post links here haha, but at this point in time I kind of despise the entirety of the internet, am in favour of severely restricting voting rights of people that don’t agree with me and think humanity as a lifeform is severely overrated and disproves any notion of survival of the fittest let alone “intelligent” design. Does that answer your questions?


jus funnin...that's the trade-off inherent in lowering the bar to entry and leveling the playing the field; is the raising of the noise floor...millions of people masquerading as SMEs makes seeking education and enlightenment extremely inefficient...eventually leading to manifestations like Jan 6th 

it's interesting that so many "reviews" skip over the timbre flower and the syntify slider, and the timbre/envelope swapping..objectively the most new and novel controlling variables towards the end product


----------



## Alchemedia

Bee_Abney said:


> Also, if he wants to do promotion, I suspect he can get enough paid gigs doing walkthroughs that it doesn't make financial sense to rely on the various ways that YouTubers make money out of that platform. He can get paid by UVI instead; and keep his own channel for more personal stuff.



The conflict of interests dilemma is an occupational hazard so-called "influencers" eventually face if and when they get popular enough.


----------



## doctoremmet

bermudagold said:


> jus funnin...that's the trade-off inherent in lowering the bar to entry and leveling the playing the field; is the raising of the noise floor...millions of people masquerading as SMEs makes seeking education and enlightenment extremely inefficient...eventually leading to manifestations like Jan 6th
> 
> it's interesting that so many "reviews" skip over the timbre flower and the syntify slider, and the timbre/envelope swapping..objectively the most new and novel controlling variables towards the end product


I concur


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> Tracktion is producing some awesome virtual instruments ! They are surely on a Roll. I love their F'em (FM) synth.  Now NOVUM is on my high-GAS list of to buy products.


Kidding aside, I seriously think you will enjoy this one. It is fast, and works great with orchestral samples too.


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> Kidding aside, I seriously think you will enjoy this one. It is fast, and works great with orchestral samples too.


Yeah, I agree. But you are pouring a lot more GAS on me. OK, I know I'm going to end up purchasing NOVUM. So, it doesn't matter  

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## bermudagold

Alchemedia said:


> The conflict of interests dilemma is an occupational hazard so-called "influencers" eventually face if and when they get popular enough.


yeah...sweetscale has been struggling with this mightily...impacting his credibility....the same concept as "influencers" was called guerilla marketing before social media...it just had much less reach and was much more expensive...and when discovered often yielded the same soiled feeling


----------



## Markrs

muziksculp said:


> Yeah, I agree. But you are pouring a lot more GAS on me. OK, I know I'm going to end up purchasing NOVUM. So, it doesn't matter
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


You can demo it for 90 days. It is really nice though


----------



## doctoremmet

For any moral sidetracking, please go to José’s thread about Izotope.


----------



## Alchemedia

doctoremmet said:


> For any moral sidetracking, please go to José’s thread about Izotope.


----------



## Peter V

doctoremmet said:


> Not really. He stated he’s grown tired of “reviewtube” videos and wants to make a NOVUM video in time, when he has had some actual time with it and can make a video from his own experience and POV, rather than “getting it out while it’s hot”.


I had been in touch with Cameron about Novum and Abyss for a long time. He is a great guy, and I really appreciate his approach of developing his channel more towards educational. He will do a Novum (and another Abyss video), and I am sure it will be extremely insightful. It would be easy for him to do just some kind of normal review, but he has the passion and patience to search for the right angle to approach this. 

Roughly 3 month ago the sound designers started to work with Novum, and for them as well as for me this has been an interesting journey. Over the weeks we had a lot of surprises and learned things and possibilities that weren't clear to us from the very beginning, and the process is ongoing. Hence I am sure that also in a few weeks we (and this definitely includes me) can learn something interesting about Novum. 

And last not least ... this is the first version of Novum. Its 48h old. But Novum is here to stay ... and I have a lot of plans with Novum that will extend the sonic possibilities and the workflow. Trust me, there are some exciting things waiting for you!


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

I've been demoing Novum and really loving the spectral deconstruction approach but touching on @muziksculp's second question:


muziksculp said:


> 2. Can it be played expressively ? or is it more for ambient sounds/atmospheres creation ?


Novum essentially takes a single sample and maps it to the entire keyboard, as do many other sample-mangling instruments I own such as Soniccouture's Haunted Spaces or Sound Dust's Ghost Drop. So playing it expressively can result in a touch of SSIS (single sample instrument syndrome) where the lack of multisampling across the keyboard becomes evident in some cases.

I suppose a way around this would be to run a few instances of Novum in parallel, each loaded with a different sample (e.g. sustained piano notes at C1, C2, C3, C4) and use split keyboard zones set up in your DAW or something like Unify to map each instance of Novum to a particular range of keys. CPU cycles allowing, this would give you a multisampled macro instrument that should be more expressive across the keyboard.


----------



## Peter V

rhizomusicosmos said:


> I've been demoing Novum and really loving the spectral deconstruction approach but touching on @muziksculp's second question:
> 
> Novum essentially takes a single sample and maps it to the entire keyboard, as do many other sample-mangling instruments I own such as Soniccouture's Haunted Spaces or Sound Dust's Ghost Drop. So playing it expressively can result in a touch of SSIS (single sample instrument syndrome) where the lack of multisampling across the keyboard becomes evident in some cases.
> 
> I suppose a way around this would be to run a few instances of Novum in parallel, each loaded with a different sample (e.g. sustained piano notes at C1, C2, C3, C4) and use split keyboard zones set up in your DAW or something like Unify to map each instance of Novum to a particular range of keys. CPU cycles allowing, this would give you a multisampled macro instrument that should be more expressive across the keyboard.


A different way: when dropping a sample not on the main waveform, but on one of the layer symbols you can import a sample w/o decomposing it. In this way you can have 6 layers of granular in one patch, with all the other capabilities of Novum. You can then use KEYTRACK to modulate the gain of each individual layer to do the mapping. Many patches in the KEY section are using this. 

And of course - as there are already such patches - you can simply load such a patch and then exchange your samples via drag and drop. For creative use you can also load such a patch and then throw a sample on the main waveform to decompose it - this maps the decomposed layers across your keyboard. Novum sorts the layers roughly according to perceived spectral brightness so this usually works well straight out of the box. This works also great with snippets from orchestral pieces.


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

Peter V said:


> A different way: when dropping a sample not on the main waveform, but on one of the layer symbols you can import a sample w/o decomposing it. In this way you can have 6 layers of granular in one patch, with all the other capabilities of Novum. You can then use KEYTRACK to modulate the gain of each individual layer to do the mapping. Many patches in the KEY section are using this.
> 
> And of course - as there are already such patches - you can simply load such a patch and then exchange your samples via drag and drop. For creative use you can also load such a patch and then throw a sample on the main waveform to decompose it - this maps the decomposed layers across your keyboard. Novum sorts the layers roughly according to perceived spectral brightness so this usually works well straight out of the box. This works also great with snippets from orchestral pieces.


Ah, this is very elegant. So as it is implemented into Novum, there seems to be the possibility of six samples that can be mapped across the keyboard.


----------



## bermudagold

rhizomusicosmos said:


> I've been demoing Novum and really loving the spectral deconstruction approach but touching on @muziksculp's second question:
> 
> Novum essentially takes a single sample and maps it to the entire keyboard, as do many other sample-mangling instruments I own such as Soniccouture's Haunted Spaces or Sound Dust's Ghost Drop. So playing it expressively can result in a touch of SSIS (single sample instrument syndrome) where the lack of multisampling across the keyboard becomes evident in some cases.
> 
> I suppose a way around this would be to run a few instances of Novum in parallel, each loaded with a different sample (e.g. sustained piano notes at C1, C2, C3, C4) and use split keyboard zones set up in your DAW or something like Unify to map each instance of Novum to a particular range of keys. CPU cycles allowing, this would give you a multisampled macro instrument that should be more expressive across the keyboard.


haunted spaces is just creating a wavesequence from 4 samples using vectors...what's stopping you from creating a wavesequence using msegs?....I believe you don't have to use the 6 slots as decomposed layers, you can place a different sample on each, and then use the envelopes to isolate each sample sequentially and temporally in the overall instrument master envelope time allotment....this should give you a playable evolving wavesequence instrument made from multiple samples no?...people do this in regular pcm samplers all the time


----------



## muziksculp

Peter V said:


> A different way: when dropping a sample not on the main waveform, but on one of the layer symbols you can import a sample w/o decomposing it. In this way you can have 6 layers of granular in one patch, with all the other capabilities of Novum. You can then use KEYTRACK to modulate the gain of each individual layer to do the mapping. Many patches in the KEY section are using this.


Hi @Peter V ,

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't checked NOVUM Videos, and info. yet, so maybe a premature question, but what exactly do you mean by the term 'w/o decomposing' ? what does 'decomposing' mean here ?


----------



## Alchemedia

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Peter V ,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I haven't checked NOVUM Videos, and info. yet, so maybe a premature question, but what exactly do you mean by the term 'w/o decomposing' ? what does 'decomposing' mean here ?



It's all about the grains.


----------



## rsg22

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Peter V ,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I haven't checked NOVUM Videos, and info. yet, so maybe a premature question, but what exactly do you mean by the term 'w/o decomposing' ? what does 'decomposing' mean here ?








The Dawesome Thread - NOVUM available


I really wish I could eat Beetroot. It's like it attacks my stomach with knives. Blunt ones, so it will hurt more. Evil stuff. Plus, the whole Paul Verhoeven 'Turkish Delight', Rutger Hauer swishing the water about in the toilet thing. If you've seen the film and don't remember - what's wrong...



vi-control.net


----------



## Peter V

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Peter V ,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I haven't checked NOVUM Videos, and info. yet, so maybe a premature question, but what exactly do you mean by the term 'w/o decomposing' ? what does 'decomposing' mean here ?


Usually we use multiple sounds and layer them. Decomposing is the opposite process - when giving the summed audio trying to derive the individual layers of the sound. 

We do this all the time ... our ears and brains are easily able to distinguish the passing car from the birds in the sky, the cicadas chirping in the grass and the gently sound of a bassoon player practicing the opening of rite of spring in the house over there. 

Novum tries to mimic this with the help of machine learning. In many cases it works surprisingly close to what you would think of the natural layers, and yet you have sometimes surprising decompositions. 

The fun thing is that you can throw anything on it to see what it makes from it.


----------



## muziksculp

Alchemedia said:


> It's all about the grains.


Thanks. I will download the user's manual to get a better understanding of what's going on in NOVUM.


----------



## muziksculp

Peter V said:


> Usually we use multiple sounds and layer them. Decomposing is the opposite process - when giving the summed audio trying to derive the individual layers of the sound.
> 
> We do this all the time ... our ears and brains are easily able to distinguish the passing car from the birds in the sky, the cicadas chirping in the grass and the gently sound of a bassoon player practicing the opening of rite of spring in the house over there.
> 
> Novum tries to mimic this with the help of machine learning. In many cases it works surprisingly close to what you would think of the natural layers, and yet you have sometimes surprising decompositions.
> 
> The fun thing is that you can throw anything on it to see what it makes from it.


Thanks  

Very interesting. I need to read the user's manual, and watch the videos when I have the time. 

It will be fascinating to see how NOVUM matures, and what it is capable of as more features are added to it, I would love it if it can be smart enough that we it can emulate what the tedious process of multi-sampling does, but by using only one sample, and allow the creation of realistic emulations of acoustic instruments, with their detailed expressiveness, i.e. vibrato, dynamics, attack portion variations based on velocity, ..etc. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Peter V

Peter V said:


> The fun thing is that you can throw anything on it to see what it makes from it.


To give an example: take a sample of a single violine, ideally played with a bit sloppy intonation and with the bowing slightly uneven and irregular. This is not a layered sound, yet Novum needs to find 6 layers. It will pick one with the noisy part of the horsehairs on the strings, one layer will have the harsher tones when there was more pressure applied, one will be the softer part. When you play them all together you get your original sound back. 
But instead you can now use granular techniques, and with a bit of jitter on the grain positions and grain panning you have a nordic, cinematic violine soundscape. Its that easy!


----------



## Pier

rhizomusicosmos said:


> Novum essentially takes a single sample and maps it to the entire keyboard, as do many other sample-mangling instruments I own such as Soniccouture's Haunted Spaces or Sound Dust's Ghost Drop. So playing it expressively can result in a touch of SSIS (single sample instrument syndrome) where the lack of multisampling across the keyboard becomes evident in some cases.


I still don't own Novum (so please correct me anyone if I'm wrong) but it's a very different beast compared to your typical sampler.

To begin with, Novum handles the speed of the playhead vs pitch very differently compared to a regular sampler. It's not like having a single sample and just changing the speed depending on the note played.

Another major difference is you can introduce modulators *per layer*. So not every note will sound the same. Even the same note (eg: like round robins). And it's not only about the granular stuff. You can make the playhead run at a different speed on each layer.

Finally you can add a synth layer on top of the "sample engine".

And if that's not enough then there's a comb filter somewhere which I still don't know how it fits all this yet 😂

Oh and then there's the wheel with color dots which seems to alter the timbral characteristics of a layer?

Honestly I don't think you should be worried about being able to load a single sample.

But, like I said, I haven't played with it yet. I got all this only from watching a couple videos.


----------



## muziksculp

Peter V said:


> To give an example: take a sample of a single violine, ideally played with a bit sloppy intonation and with the bowing slightly uneven and irregular. This is not a layered sound, yet Novum needs to find 6 layers. It will pick one with the noisy part of the horsehairs on the strings, one layer will have the harsher tones when there was more pressure applied, one will be the softer part. When you play them all together you get your original sound back.
> But instead you can now use granular techniques, and with a bit of jitter on the grain positions and grain panning you have a nordic, cinematic violine soundscape. Its that easy!


What happens if you play a single violin note in tune, without any sloppy intonation, and even bowing ?


----------



## Peter V

muziksculp said:


> What happens if you play a single violin note in tune, without any sloppy intonation, and even bowing ?


Well thats impossible, I can't play the violine with perfect intonation - I am bassoon player!


----------



## Peter V

Just kidding, let me grab one and I will post it here ...


----------



## Dr.Quest

muziksculp said:


> What happens if you play a single violin note in tune, without any sloppy intonation, and even bowing ?


It would still separate it into its component frequency ranges. So it would still be tweak-able on that level.


----------



## muziksculp

OK.. GAS took over.

Purchased directly from Tracktion, applied my Cash Rewards, total $113.


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

Pier said:


> I still don't own Novum (so please correct me anyone if I'm wrong) but it's a very different beast compared to your typical sampler.
> 
> To begin with, Novum handles the speed of the playhead vs pitch very differently compared to a regular sampler. It's not like having a single sample and just changing the speed depending on the note played.
> 
> Another major difference is you can introduce modulators *per layer*. So not every note will sound the same. Even the same note (eg: like round robins). And it's not only about the granular stuff. You can make the playhead run at a different speed on each layer.
> 
> Finally you can add a synth layer on top of the "sample engine".
> 
> And if that's not enough then there's a comb filter somewhere which I still don't know how it fits all this yet 😂
> 
> Oh and then there's the wheel with color dots which seems to alter the timbral characteristics of a layer?
> 
> Honestly I don't think you should be worried about being able to load a single sample.
> 
> But, like I said, I haven't played with it yet. I got all this only from watching a couple videos.


Yes, this is Novum's power: the ways in which the six decomposed layers can be modulated. I agree that it can do a lot with a single sample, especially one that is rich in timbre to start with (Simon Stockhausen's orchestral sample was fabulous), and this is really exciting. But I was interested in how to take it beyond the single-sample-across-the-keyboard paradigm and make it even more expressively rich. I found some of the presets to have a sweet spot range and wondered if that could be extended with multisampling. @Peter V has indicated that the layers can have independent samples with keytracking but I haven't explored that as yet.

I might try recording some e-bow guitar notes at different pitches and see how they layer up.


----------



## sostenuto

@ Peter V _ ready to purchase. OTH plz revisit total market place as it exists _ 🔼.
No concerns whatever, as Intro deals with top several % Synth /Softsynth deepdivers.
Yet pyramid of potential market overwhelms numbers of wizards /gurus. Plz continue providing additional Vids _ helping next level of impressed, modestly capable, Users _ as we/they pursue full understanding of NOVUM power _ now, and much longer-term.
Personal perspective is home studio, decades-long Spectrasonics user _ K13U CE _ Pigments 3, Vital Plus, Spire _ vast 3rd Pty expansions. Gut feel says NOVUM is major step forward, and strong desire to take more time, _than ever before_, to become as proficient as possible/practical.

(edit) e.g. was sooo close to adding Abyss, prior to advance notice of NOVUM. Perplexed now as there seems to be ongoing benefit in adding Abyss as well. 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Peter V

Pier said:


> [ ... ] And if that's not enough then there's a comb filter somewhere which I still don't know how it fits all this yet 😂


It works great for transforming non-pitched material to pitched material. Take field recordings, and with the combfilter you turn it into a playable instrument.


----------



## muziksculp

Q. So, DAWSOME is the developer of NOVUM , this is the first time I hear their name. Did the Tracktion development team contribute to the development of NOVUM as well, or was NOVUM developed exclusively by DAWSOME ?


----------



## muziksculp

Peter V said:


> It works great for transforming non-pitched material to pitched material. Take field recordings, and with the combfilter you turn it into a playable instrument.


That's insane


----------



## Peter V

sostenuto said:


> @ Peter V _ ready to purchase. OTH plz revisit total market place as it exists _ 🔼.
> No concerns whatever, as Intro deals with top several % Synth /Softsynth deepdivers.
> Yet pyramid of potential market overwhelms numbers of wizards /gurus. Plz continue providing additional Vids _ helping next level of impressed, modestly capable, Users _ as we/they pursue full understanding of NOVUM power _ now, and much longer-term.
> Personal perspective is home studio, decades-long Spectrasonics user _ K13U CE _ Pigments 3, Vital Plus, Spire _ vast 3rd Pty expansions. Gut feel says NOVUM is major step forward, and strong desire to take more time, than ever before, to become as proficient as possible/practical.


There is also a 90 days free trial - w/o limitations. Just download and install, in the plugin click UNLOCK to start the 90 days trial period! 

Yes, I will do more videos, if there are any specific interests just let me know. At the moment I am mainly helping users who have very specific issues on their system, like outdated audio drivers, non-conforming openGL drivers etc. ... so it may take a few days before I find the time.


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

Peter V said:


> It works great for transforming non-pitched material to pitched material. Take field recordings, and with the combfilter you turn it into a playable instrument.


That's how the building blocks for this piece were created: combfilters applied to speech.


----------



## Peter V

muziksculp said:


> Q. So, DAWSOME is the developer of NOVUM , this is the first time I hear their name. Did the Tracktion development team contribute to the development of NOVUM as well, or was NOVUM developed exclusively by DAWSOME ?


To give it a face - this is me - I am "Peter V" aka Dawesome. I am an indie developer and I have developed Novum completely on my own, of course with feedback from sound designers etc. 
Novum is my third commercial plugin, one year ago I had my debut with Abyss, which introduced the idea of tone-colours. 

Being a one-person-company I need to focus, and for me this is the creation of instruments, it is not the marketing, the sales ... so I partner with tracktion who are taking care for the distribution, the marketing, the tax thingies (I even don't know the exact terms) and such.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Peter V ,

Thank You for developing NOVUM. You are on the right track, I'm very inspired by what you are doing, and I'm sure you have plans to take it to the next level via updates..etc. 

Partnering with Tracktion to have them handle the business/marketing side of things is a very smart strategy, you can keep your focus on development of innovative, and cutting-edge software musical instruments. 

It's a pleasure to meet you via this forum, and I wish you lots of success in your current, and future projects. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## sostenuto

Peter V said:


> There is also a 90 days free trial - w/o limitations. Just download and install, in the plugin click UNLOCK to start the 90 days trial period!
> 
> Yes, I will do more videos, if there are any specific interests just let me know. At the moment I am mainly helping users who have very specific issues on their system, like outdated audio drivers, non-conforming openGL drivers etc. ... so it may take a few days before I find the time.


Kudos for Trial !! Already running nicely in desktop pc Win11 Pro /Reaper v6.61.
Manipulating effectively is another issue. Huge benefit with your large Preset content at Intro ! 👏🏻 
Not impatient _ empathetic with your individual, entrepreneurial challenges. 
Plz just keep very large, evolving (shallow-diver) user-base' as part of routine tutorials and feature videos.


----------



## c0nsilience

@muziksculp I’ve found it best to not approach Novum as a traditional sampler, or even a granular synth in the traditional sense. It is unequivocally it’s own beast. The Timbre Flower, SYNTIFY and Homogenized alone are worth the price of admission, imho. 

I truly believe that Peter V. ,aka Dawesome, has created a new category of synthesis. It goes well beyond the “hybrid” moniker. 

Words fail. Maybe an emoticon won’t: 🤯


----------



## tressie5

I like Novum because I can go where Abyss didn't take me, and that's creating my own sounds. Having a Kontakt library of prepared sampled sounds is cool, but there is a certain satisfaction with importing your own field recordings and having it mangled in Novum. In that sense, it behaves like a generative synth, you know, just tweak a few parameters then stand back and watch the machine do its thing. It's alive! It's alive!


----------



## sostenuto

tressie5 said:


> I like Novum because I can go where Abyss didn't take me, and that's creating my own sounds. Having a Kontakt library of prepared sampled sounds is cool, but there is a certain satisfaction with importing your own field recordings and having it mangled in Novum. In that sense, it behaves like a generative synth, you know, just tweak a few parameters then stand back and watch the machine do its thing. It's alive! It's alive!


Absolute fav movie ! 
Best line _ when Inga asks about his 'schwanzschtucker' .....
May try dropping that audio into NOVUM and hope for best !


----------



## c0nsilience

sostenuto said:


> Absolute fav movie !
> Best line _ when Inga asks about his 'schwanzschtucker' .....
> May try dropping that audio into NOVUM and hope for best !


“Abby…Normal.”

Marty Feldman RIP


----------



## Alchemedia

c0nsilience said:


> “Abby…Normal.”
> 
> Marty Feldman RIP


----------



## outland

Alchemedia said:


>


----------



## Alchemedia

I have been experiencing repetitive crashing in Reaper 6.61 running 2 instances of Novum with presets only. No other plugins or FX.


----------



## Peter V

Alchemedia said:


> I have been experiencing repetitive crashing in Reaper 6.61 running 2 instances of Novum with presets only. No other plugins or FX.


Thanks for reporting ... can you please send me a short mail to peter @ dawesomemusic dot com ?


----------



## Fahl

Trying out the free demo and wow this thing is wild! 

I am however echoing some of the previous comments about having multi sample support would be ideal for this. Sure you can import 6 samples into the different slots but then you loose the ability to individually manipulate the various layers which is what really makes this a unique take on a familiar concept.

Would it be possible to add support for 6-8 slots which you could map across the octaves without sacrificing the ability to decompose each sample? It wouldn't have to be very intrusive to the (beautiful) interface either - just numbered buttons to the left of the main visualiser window for example.


----------



## richmwhitfield

You can still manipulate the layers if you drop the samples onto each layer, unless I am misunderstanding you.


----------



## Alchemedia

Peter V said:


> Thanks for reporting ... can you please send me a short mail to peter @ dawesomemusic dot com ?


Roger that Capt! I will give it a go in Bitwig & Studio One also and report back to headquarters post haste.


----------



## Fahl

Yes you can manipulate each of the 6 samples but as far as I can tell, each of the samples are not "decomposed" like they are when you drop it into the main window. Hence it becomes more akin to a traditional granular instrument with samples spread across the keyboard (albeit a great one). 

What I'm proposing is to keep the decomposing feature with truly makes NOVUM unique and add multisample support to that.


----------



## Peter V

Fahl said:


> Yes you can manipulate each of the 6 samples but as far as I can tell, each of the samples are not "decomposed" like they are when you drop it into the main window. Hence it becomes more akin to a traditional granular instrument with samples spread across the keyboard (albeit a great one).
> 
> What I'm proposing is to keep the decomposing feature with truly makes NOVUM unique and add multisample support to that.


So if I understand correctly: allow to map a multisample, then treat this whole thing as one entity that gets decomposed, and the decomposition is supposed to be "natural" in the sense that each layer sounds consistent across the whole keyboard range. Correct?


----------



## richmwhitfield

Yeah I was misunderstanding you 😂 

Just as well Peter isn't as dense as I am!


----------



## Fahl

Peter V said:


> So if I understand correctly: allow to map a multisample, then treat this whole thing as one entity that gets decomposed, and the decomposition is supposed to be "natural" in the sense that each layer sounds consistent across the whole keyboard range. Correct?


Wow thank you Peter for getting back to me directly and so swiftly here! Please take this a constructive criticism as what you have achieved here already is nothing short of remarkable! 

I think we mean the same thing but to clarify even further:

Imagine having 8 instances of NOVUM.
Each instance gets one sample which is mapped to each octave (C0, C1, C2 etc)
Each of the 8 instances are mapped to the corresponding octave.
Samples are decomposed just as they are now.
Each layer within each sample can be manipulated just as they are now.

All of this within one plugin window where you simply tab between each octave.

Does that make sense?

Thanks!


----------



## Alchemedia

FYI, I reported an issue here 15 minutes ago (above) and Peter sent me a private message and resolved it already via an update. Damn near telepathic level of support!


----------



## doctoremmet

I think this ^ post ny @Fahl will later go down in history as the PIVOTAL moment where a user request required Peter V to invent a new quantum computer paradigm, leading to a series of cascading events resulting in NOVUM becoming sentient, merging itself with Optimus Prime and spectrally analyzing the entire universe in infinitesimal multi-sampled layers and making it MPE playable at the same time. The singularity is near!


----------



## Peter V

Alchemedia said:


> FYI, I reported an issue here 15 minutes ago (above) and Peter sent me a private message and resolved it already via an update. Damn near telepathic level of support!


To anyone: if you experience something strange - or you have any question - please do not hesitate reaching out to me via peter at dawesomemusic dot com 

In this way you make sure that I am getting immediately aware of the issue - in a forum a post may easily slip through my attention.


----------



## Peter V

doctoremmet said:


> I think this ^ post ny @Fahl will later go down in history as the PIVOTAL moment where a user request required Peter V to invent a new quantum computer paradigm, leading to a series of cascading events resulting in NOVUM becoming sentient, merging itself with Optimus Prime and spectrally analyzing the entire universe in infinitesmall multi-sampled layers and making it MPE playable at the same time. The singularity is near!


You are right, Optimus and I just started working on exactly this!


----------



## doctoremmet

So…. I guess that’s why it is called SYMBIONT?


----------



## Alchemedia

doctoremmet said:


> I think this ^ post ny @Fahl will later go down in history as the PIVOTAL moment where a user request required Peter V to invent a new quantum computer paradigm, leading to a series of cascading events resulting in *NOVUM becoming sentient*, merging itself with Optimus Prime and spectrally analyzing the entire universe in infinitesimal multi-sampled layers and making it MPE playable at the same time. The singularity is near!


You could get yourself fired from Google for even suggesting such a thing. 








Google AI 'is sentient,' software engineer claims before being suspended


Google's LaMDA AI system says it has consciousness. Should engineers believe it?




www.livescience.com


----------



## doctoremmet

Alchemedia said:


> You could get yourself fired from Google for even suggesting such a thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google AI 'is sentient,' software engineer claims before being suspended
> 
> 
> Google's LaMDA AI system says it has consciousness. Should engineers believe it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.livescience.com


I remember reading this last week, thinking: oh no… NOVUM has injected itself in a Google AI just to mess with those guys and have a bit of a laugh…


----------



## Peter V

Fahl said:


> Wow thank you Peter for getting back to me directly and so swiftly here! Please take this a constructive criticism as what you have achieved here already is nothing short of remarkable!


Sure - I am happy and grateful for any proposal - and also criticism is highly welcome. I may not always agree with everything - as I have to carefully balance design goals, but often enough it turns out that something can be improved! 



Fahl said:


> I think we mean the same thing but to clarify even further:
> 
> Imagine having 8 instances of NOVUM.
> Each instance gets one sample which is mapped to each octave (C0, C1, C2 etc)
> Each of the 8 instances are mapped to the corresponding octave.
> Samples are decomposed just as they are now.
> Each layer within each sample can be manipulated just as they are now.
> All of this within one plugin window where you simply tab between each octave.
> Does that make sense?


I think I understand now what you have in mind. A few things to consider: 
* decomposing 8 samples also takes 8x the time
* same for loading a patch, as Novum does some heavy computations when importing a patch 
* if the decomposition of each sample is completely separate, and you start working on the layers by tuning parameters the results would be very inconsistent - as each octave may have chosen a slightly different split
* when the user moves the mapped samples around the decomposition would need to run again
* so the decomposition algorithm would need to take all the samples, including their keyboard-mapping and reference tunings in relation to each other into account. As far as I am aware there exists no algorithm for this, but I'd have some ideas 

So summarising - I believe it is theoretically feasible, but it would probably be (annoyingly) slow. Implementing it would require a lot of research and effort, and inevitably the user would like to be able to do the sample mapping, editing, looping etc in the tool, so that would mean re-implementing just another version of Kontakt (of course, with decomposition). 

But ...


----------



## Fahl

Peter V said:


> Sure - I am happy and grateful for any proposal - and also criticism is highly welcome. I may not always agree with everything - as I have to carefully balance design goals, but often enough it turns out that something can be improved!
> 
> 
> I think I understand now what you have in mind. A few things to consider:
> * decomposing 8 samples also takes 8x the time
> * same for loading a patch, as Novum does some heavy computations when importing a patch
> * if the decomposition of each sample is completely separate, and you start working on the layers by tuning parameters the results would be very inconsistent - as each octave may have chosen a slightly different split
> * when the user moves the mapped samples around the decomposition would need to run again
> * so the decomposition algorithm would need to take all the samples, including their keyboard-mapping and reference tunings in relation to each other into account. As far as I am aware there exists no algorithm for this, but I'd have some ideas
> 
> So summarising - I believe it is theoretically feasible, but it would probably be (annoyingly) slow. Implementing it would require a lot of research and effort, and inevitably the user would like to be able to do the sample mapping, editing, looping etc in the tool, so that would mean re-implementing just another version of Kontakt (of course, with decomposition).
> 
> But ...


Fair enough and that's why you are the developer :D

Perhaps your suggestion would be much more practical (and easier to implement?) and if you would be willing to give that a shot, I'd be more than happy to put in the time to test it out as a token of my gratitude. 

If we look at it from less of a technical perspective and more what the end goal would be - I'm looking for a way to have NOVUM sound more consistent across the full 88 keys by using multiple samples and if your suggestion to my idea would accomplish this, I'm all for it!


----------



## Peter V

But: lets forget about multisampling for a moment, as this is a specific solution, and not the underlying use case!

Its not that people said, oh, wouldn't it be cool if instead of one sample we use hundreds of them and have session musicians play tones on their instruments for hours / days. It was born out of necessity because you have the mickey-mousing effect when pitching a sample, you have the machine gun effect with staccato tones, you have the lack of expressiveness when dealing with a single static sample.

Multi-sampling has been developed to overcome these problems, and over the last 3 decades it has been perfected to stunning levels. Thats great, and there are so many wonderful libs out there.

But at the same time it means that the amount of work that goes into one instrument, and also the amount of technical expertise needed has reached levels, where normal musicians barely, if ever, create their own multisampled instruments. And I find this a pity!

Novum is the starting point to offer an alternative - with the idea to turn _every_ sample into an instrument. So rather then going down the road of multi-samples I'd love to create a solution where you take for example one voice sample, and have it playing _naturally_ across a wide keyboard range, without the mickey mouse effect (unless you desire it).

The current version of Novum de-couples speed from pitch and it decouples temporal evolution from timbre. I just started doing research to de-couple harmonics from formants. This requires automatic detection of formants from a single source sample, which is an unsolved problem, but I think can be addressed with machine learning / AI. And it requires a realtime sampling technology that can pitch the sample while keeping its formants in place. Don't expect this to arrive next week or next month. But expect it to arrive in the future.

And while multi-sampling took about 30 years from the modest beginning to the near perfection I am optimistic to be (slightly) faster


----------



## Fahl

Thank you the lengthy reply! That makes so much sense and paints an even clearer picture of the design goal for the instrument. Makes perfect sense why multisampling is not the way to go then to keep the instrument in line with that ethos.

I will be eagerly awaiting the developments you propose here as that sounds just nothing short of extraordinary if it could be done.

So for now, let me rephrase my "request" into a question:

Say I want to use a sample of a classical guitar and extend that as consistently across the keyboard as possible. Would you suggest using a full chord or are there any other tricks I might have missed that could extend the range to sound as natural as possible? Generally, I've found that I either get the highest notes to sound fine but the lowest octave becomes very quiet and sounds nothing like the rest of the range or vise versa depending on the pitch of the sample. 

Note that I have only worked with samples from a single string and a single note so far.

If you have any ideas here let me know as extending the range (not only in terms of notes but expression as well) of acoustic instruments is key to my practise, hence why I'm so excited about this instrument!


----------



## Peter V

Fahl said:


> If you have any ideas here let me know as extending the range (not only in terms of notes but expression as well) of acoustic instruments is key to my practise, hence why I'm so excited about this instrument!


Its not an easy task! But here a few tricks: 
* use a sample slightly above the mid range (its sounds more natural to pitch a sample down in most cases) 

* before importing to Novum apply a notch EQ to attenuate the main "formant", ie the frequency of the resonating part of your instrument. After importing you add this frequency with the filter by dialing in some RESONANCE and then adjusting the cutoff-frequency. Do this while repeatedly playing the note at the original pitch until it sounds natural 

* in the low range your transients get lost, so add an ADSR that acts on the GAIN. Use a KEYTRACK modulator to influence the amount of the ADSR, such that the ADSR is only active in the low range. 

* also you can use the same KEYTRACK to modulate SPEED and/or SIZE and/or SKEW to gain back the attack in the lower range. Which one works best depends on the general grain settings you desire

* in the low range your sound looses air and bite, to give it back add a touch of SYNTIFY and/or DIRT and/or DIST. As our perception is most sensitive to the attacks you can modulate these with the same ADSR as above - if the attack sounds sharp our perception ignores if the sustained part sounds a bit dull 

These techniques involve a bit of experimentation, but you can apply the same techniques also for other tasks in other instruments, so I think it is worthwhile to do it once or twice.


----------



## Peter V

Peter V said:


> Its not an easy task! But here a few tricks:
> * use a sample slightly above the mid range (its sounds more natural to pitch a sample down in most cases)
> 
> * before importing to Novum apply a notch EQ to attenuate the main "formant", ie the frequency of the resonating part of your instrument. After importing you add this frequency with the filter by dialing in some RESONANCE and then adjusting the cutoff-frequency. Do this while repeatedly playing the note at the original pitch until it sounds natural
> 
> * in the low range your transients get lost, so add an ADSR that acts on the GAIN. Use a KEYTRACK modulator to influence the amount of the ADSR, such that the ADSR is only active in the low range.
> 
> * also you can use the same KEYTRACK to modulate SPEED and/or SIZE and/or SKEW to gain back the attack in the lower range. Which one works best depends on the general grain settings you desire
> 
> * in the low range your sound looses air and bite, to give it back add a touch of SYNTIFY and/or DIRT and/or DIST. As our perception is most sensitive to the attacks you can modulate these with the same ADSR as above - if the attack sounds sharp our perception ignores if the sustained part sounds a bit dull
> 
> These techniques involve a bit of experimentation, but you can apply the same techniques also for other tasks in other instruments, so I think it is worthwhile to do it once or twice.


The good thing is: once you have done this work with a patch you can use this as a template and simply throw other samples on it - oftentimes you will find that with just a very few tweaks the same patch will also work for other samples.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Fahl said:


> Thank you the lengthy reply! That makes so much sense and paints an even clearer picture of the design goal for the instrument. Makes perfect sense why multisampling is not the way to go then to keep the instrument in line with that ethos.
> 
> I will be eagerly awaiting the developments you propose here as that sounds just nothing short of extraordinary if it could be done.
> 
> So for now, let me rephrase my "request" into a question:
> 
> Say I want to use a sample of a classical guitar and extend that as consistently across the keyboard as possible. Would you suggest using a full chord or are there any other tricks I might have missed that could extend the range to sound as natural as possible? Generally, I've found that I either get the highest notes to sound fine but the lowest octave becomes very quiet and sounds nothing like the rest of the range or vise versa depending on the pitch of the sample.
> 
> Note that I have only worked with samples from a single string and a single note so far.
> 
> If you have any ideas here let me know as extending the range (not only in terms of notes but expression as well) of acoustic instruments is key to my practise, hence why I'm so excited about this instrument!


There are lots of possibilities that here. And Novum could be used as part of the process. Here are some that occur to me.

A simple one is to use software such as Unify (or just arrange this in your DAW) to have multiple instances of Novum, each with a different sample and mapped to different keys. This was mentioned earlier by @rhizomusicosmos. Unify would spread these instances across your computer's cores to maximise efficiency; but how many instances you can run will still be limited by your computer's processing power.

Related to this is the more static, fixed option, of resampling Novum's output. Basically, you put a sample into Novum, record various manipulations of that sample. Then you do it with another sample (say, a different note from the instrument you are working with), and do the same again. Load the newly recorded samples into Kontakt or similar.

Then, let's say that you have few samples of an instrument - maybe only one single note - but you want to get a more natural spread across the keyboard. Novum's processing may help with this. So would a spectral analyser and EQ. If you know what the spectrum looks like for different notes on the instrument, you can use an EQ to match your sample to that spectral profile. Chromofonic shows how to do this for velocity layers, but it can work for different pitches too:



Then, when you pitch shift the sample as well, you have something that sounds more like the instrument actually playing a different note. You may also find altering things like attack and sustain help to improve the realism - or perhaps we should say verisimilitude. It may not be wholly realistic, but it will, in key ways, mirror how the real instrument behaves at different pitches.

I do this in a small way for pitchbending instruments. If you bend a note on the guitar by moving the string across the fretboard (as opposed to using a vibrato bar), the tone changes as well as the pitch. It's almost like a mini, subtle wah effect. You can mimic that by mapping subtle tonal changes to the modwheel, and modulating them in synch with the pitch bending.

How far Novum helps with all this, I'm not sure yet. It certainly offers a lot of opportunities for altering the qualities of sound you can get from a single sample.

Edit to add: and Peter just cut to the chase far more effectively and with more detail on the tricky bits!


----------



## Fahl

Thank you Peter, I'll give this a shot tonight! Really appreciate your swift replies and will report back on what I find!

Edit: Posted before I could see your reply @Bee_Abney Thank you! this is very helpful and I will certainly give all of these a shot!


----------



## c0nsilience

> Directly from Pete V.:
> 
> To anyone: if you experience something strange - rest assured Novum is working as intended and there are creative consequences to your decision to use Novum. Side affects may include, but are not limited to: severe bouts of inspiration, sleep deprivation, sudden loss of interest in other synths, increased heart rate, pupil dilation, massive dopamine release, programmed neuronal cell growth, weighty frontal lobes, and a perma-grin that may last up to the rest of your life, fits of bliss, loss of meaningless relationships, a decrease in superficiality, cancelling of your streaming services, and a sudden urge to delete all of your social media lunch plate art house photos.
> 
> Do not be alarmed. This is how it works.


----------



## sostenuto

Alchemedia said:


> Roger that Capt! I will give it a go in Bitwig & Studio One also and report back to headquarters post haste.


Same here with latest Reaper v 6.61 _ Desktop PC - Win11 Pro. One Track fine, 2nd crashes immediately.


----------



## c0nsilience

Zero problems here running single or multiple instances of Novum on macOS in Logic Pro X, BitWig Studio, and Studio Pro One 5, fyi.


----------



## sostenuto

sostenuto said:


> Same here with latest Reaper v 6.61 _ Desktop PC - Win11 Pro. One Track fine, 2nd crashes immediately.


Quick Update from Peter, and all fine now with (3) instances NOVUM, + Massive X, Pigments 3. 👏🏻


----------



## zvenx

may have been reported already.. if you choose, sort patches strictly alphabetically, at least on my system (mac intel 11.6.7, Cubase 12) the previous and next preset arrows at the header no longer work.
rsp


----------



## Peter V

zvenx said:


> may have been reported already.. if you choose, sort patches strictly alphabetically, at least on my system (mac intel 11.6.7, Cubase 12) the previous and next preset arrows at the header no longer work.
> rsp


Thank you for reporting! Can you describe the steps what you are doing, and how this bug manifests? I just tried here and it seems to work just fine!? (iMac pro 11.6.2, Cubase 12)


----------



## charlieclouser

Couldn't resist, bought Novum..... but can't find the manual online. Anyone got a link?


----------



## Fahl

charlieclouser said:


> Couldn't resist, bought Novum..... but can't find the manual online. Anyone got a link?


Here's the manual: https://www.tracktion.com/sites/default/files/2022-06/novum-manual-v1.pdf 

It's that good isn't it!


----------



## Fahl

After some experimenting tonight following Peters suggestion, I've been able to get much closer to having just one sample sound at least decent across the range of the keyboard, much closer than before! Still fiddling a bit to find the best range for the original sample but I'm sure I will get there and if layered with something else to retain a firmer low end, the results are stunning! Novum+Pigments is a very very potent combination!

Will be setting up some custom racks in Ableton to try this out before looking into Unify further which does look very good at a glance and should be able to provide an easy way to manage keyboard slips across multiple instances should I need it after further learning the instrument.

Very curious how it will handle full chords with the decomposing feature!

Edit: At least for me, reading Peter's explanation about the philosophy behind the instrument made me think about it differently. Can't help but draw parallels to a quote I read years ago by the composer Toru Takemitsu who described every single sound by the Biwa as complete in itself. That line of thought seems applicable here - every sound is complete, every sound is an instrument.


----------



## richmwhitfield

Re the manual for anyone else





Does Unfy offer anything over and above/different to what Ableton does in terms of having multiple instances of a synth in one track?


----------



## zvenx

Peter V said:


> Thank you for reporting! Can you describe the steps what you are doing, and how this bug manifests? I just tried here and it seems to work just fine!? (iMac pro 11.6.2, Cubase 12)


let me do a quick video..

Here you go Peter.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/db7e6g7j3wyuelw/novum%20present%20change%20issue.mp4?dl=0

rsp


----------



## zvenx

charlieclouser said:


> Couldn't resist, bought Novum..... but can't find the manual online. Anyone got a link?


When I heard it, I almost instantly thought of you.
rsp


----------



## Peter V

Fahl said:


> Edit: At least for me, reading Peter's explanation about the philosophy behind the instrument made me think about it differently. Can't help but draw parallels to a quote I read years ago by the composer Toru Takemitsu who described every single sound by the Biwa as complete in itself. That line of thought seems applicable here - every sound is complete, *every sound is an instrument.*


I feel the greatest appreciation for Takemitsu both as a composer and as a philosopher! 

In my sleeping room I have one sheet of paper where wrote down the principles and the goals for Dawesome. In this way I remind myself every single evening and morning about what I want to achieve. It is German, but i attached it anyways - it says "Jeder Sound ist ein Instrument" - every sound is an instrument. 





The two elements "every image is an instrument" and "every movement is an instrument" will be addressed later ... Dawesome is a project with roughly a two decade roadmap.


----------



## Fahl

Peter V said:


> I feel the greatest appreciation for Takemitsu both as a composer and as a philosopher!
> 
> In my sleeping room I have one sheet of paper where wrote down the principles and the goals for Dawesome. In this way I remind myself every single evening and morning about what I want to achieve. It is German, but i attached it anyways - it says "Jeder Sound ist ein Instrument" - every sound is an instrument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The two elements "every image is an instrument" and "every movement is an instrument" will be addressed later ... Dawesome is a project with roughly a two decade roadmap.


So cool that Takemitsu may have had an influence here! By far my favourite composer and perhaps that influence is indeed felt in the instrument which explains psrt of why I find this so incredibly intriguing. 

Really looking forward to whats yet to come and to continue exploring this!


----------



## Peter V

zvenx said:


> let me do a quick video..Here you go Peter.
> [ ... ]
> rsp


Ah, thank you very much for making the video! 

You are right - this is a bug, and I think I even know why this fails: it is because you have the patches with the same name in the BASICS and in the USER patches. Of course Novum needs to be able to handle this. I am very tired now and need some sleep, so I will go and fix this tomorrow. 

As a workaround: it should work if you activate either only U or only B.


----------



## zvenx

I actually don't know why the patches are in the USER And Basics... when I look at the User folder it is empty (as it should be, because I haven't created any patches there yet). But for whatever reason the Basic patches are also in the USER folder.

Yes it clearly is nothing urgent... I will make sure it only shows B.

Any idea why they also appear in USER bank and how do I remove them?
rsp


----------



## Peter V

zvenx said:


> I actually don't know why the patches are in the USER And Basics... when I look at the User folder it is empty (as it should be, because I haven't created any patches there yet). But for whatever reason the Basic patches are also in the USER folder.
> 
> Yes it clearly is nothing urgent... I will make sure it only shows B.
> 
> Any idea why they also appear in USER bank and how do I remove them?
> rsp


An educated guess: you have copied the BASICS folder into .../Novum/User Patches 
This is the only location where the BASICS folder should not go - I need to mention this in the manual / install instructions. 

If this is the case: first unregister the pack in Novum (right click on the B). Then move the BASICS folder, eg like this .../Novum/BASICS 

Then register the pack again. The bad thing about this is that your favs are stored as file locations, and hence you loose them. I know how to restore them, please send me a mail to peter at dawesomemusic dot com if this is the case.


----------



## zvenx

Hi Peter, thanks.. I dont' think that is the case... if it helps my Basics is on an external USB connected Drive.
rsp


----------



## zvenx

I see what I did.. I added that Basics folder as part of my User Patches location...
and I found the favs.text so I should be able to edit them back...
I do of course have a FR to have the favs.text store relative locations as I have a mac and a pc that I try to keep mirrored as much as possible so when I favourite something on one I like to be able to quickly tell the other which patches are favourited.

It actually favourited the ones on the external drive which is what I wanted it to do, so I dont' even have to edit the fav.txt file.
thanks

rsp


----------



## rrichard63

When does the introductory price end? Forgive me if this has been answered somewhere that I couldn't find.


----------



## Alchemedia

charlieclouser said:


> Couldn't resist, bought Novum.....


I figured that was inevitable.


----------



## zzz00m

richmwhitfield said:


> Does Unfy offer anything over and above/different to what Ableton does in terms of having multiple instances of a synth in one track?


Not sure what Ableton's capabilities are in that regard, but per the developer, Unify allocates one core per instrument layer, for maximum efficiency. You can layer as many instruments as your computer can handle. There is a native sampler bundled in Unify (Guru Sampler) that handles the bundled sample playing duties. At this point Unify is not yet multi-output, so it all gets mixed into one master audio stereo output.


----------



## richmwhitfield

Ah nice. I don't use Ableton so not sure how it handles CPU per track, but you can definitely add multiple synth plugins into a an Instrument Rack (I think it's called). I assume you can also limit each synth to a key range.


----------



## zzz00m

Peter V said:


> Its not an easy task! But here a few tricks:
> * use a sample slightly above the mid range (its sounds more natural to pitch a sample down in most cases)
> 
> * before importing to Novum apply a notch EQ to attenuate the main "formant", ie the frequency of the resonating part of your instrument. After importing you add this frequency with the filter by dialing in some RESONANCE and then adjusting the cutoff-frequency. Do this while repeatedly playing the note at the original pitch until it sounds natural
> 
> * in the low range your transients get lost, so add an ADSR that acts on the GAIN. Use a KEYTRACK modulator to influence the amount of the ADSR, such that the ADSR is only active in the low range.
> 
> * also you can use the same KEYTRACK to modulate SPEED and/or SIZE and/or SKEW to gain back the attack in the lower range. Which one works best depends on the general grain settings you desire
> 
> * in the low range your sound looses air and bite, to give it back add a touch of SYNTIFY and/or DIRT and/or DIST. As our perception is most sensitive to the attacks you can modulate these with the same ADSR as above - if the attack sounds sharp our perception ignores if the sustained part sounds a bit dull
> 
> These techniques involve a bit of experimentation, but you can apply the same techniques also for other tasks in other instruments, so I think it is worthwhile to do it once or twice.


Here is John "Skippy" Lehmkuhl (PluginGuru) giving an overview of his new Mega Magic Guitars for Unify. His first version of this library was for Omnisphere. This version works entirely in Unify, no Omnisphere required!

This one is interesting because he explains how he had to work with limited samples in his first version of this sample library, which was due to limitations in Omnisphere. He sampled the 6 open strings for each guitar, rather than each note.


----------



## richmwhitfield

Cheers I will check it out


----------



## zzz00m

richmwhitfield said:


> Ah nice. I don't use Ableton so not sure how it handles CPU per track, but you can definitely add multiple synth plugins into a an Instrument Rack (I think it's called). I assume you can also limit each synth to a key range.


Yes, each instance of Unify can be one huge multi, where you can assign key ranges to each layer, as well as MIDI and Audio FX. You also have macro knobs available that can be assigned to MIDI CC to control any synth parameter in a patch.


----------



## Sampleconstruct

Novum is the most interesting granulator release in years, very inspiring!


----------



## c0nsilience

@charlieclouser between Novum and Abyss there is a lot of The Great Below nuance and subtlety available. The textures are just unbelievable! I simply cannot sing Peter V.’s praises enough. It’s inspiring to me that one guy created this. Pretty damn mind-blown. 🙂


----------



## kgdrum

Sampleconstruct said:


> Novum is the most interesting granulator release in years, very inspiring!




Simon it’s great to see you back here again! 👍


----------



## Banquet

I'm probably being dumb, but I can't work out what the Env section I doing. If I draw a different curve in, it seems to effect the volume, but we already have a mod section for ADSRs - it also has start and loop points and I can't see what they're doing. At first I thought it might be sample start and loop points which would be amazing but they don't seem to do that, they don't look like they're affecting the granules.... confused...


----------



## Peter V

Banquet said:


> I'm probably being dumb, but I can't work out what the Env section I doing. If I draw a different curve in, it seems to effect the volume, but we already have a mod section for ADSRs - it also has start and loop points and I can't see what they're doing. At first I thought it might be sample start and loop points which would be amazing but they don't seem to do that, they don't look like they're affecting the granules.... confused...


In Novum each layer has an (almost stationary) timbre with an envelope. By changing the envelope(s) you are changing the source material where the granular engine is working on. 

Each grain is a small particle of your source audio. Depending on the grain size this can be as short as a few milliseconds or as long as 5 seconds. Each grain is emitted at a certain position along your source sample. So think of it as an emitter of grains, and this emitter has a certain position. The emitter constantly creates new grains. 

With SPEED in the ENV section you determine how fast the grain-emitter moves along your samples. With START and L1 and L2 you can specify where the emitter should start on note-on and you can make the Emitter position loop between L1 and L2 if you set the mode to "CYCLE" or "PING PONG". In mode "ONE-SHOT" the L1 and L2 are ignored. 

I admit that this is currently not explained in the manual, I will do 3 pages about the basics and specifics of granular synthesis as soon as I find the time!

Does this information help?


----------



## Banquet

Peter V said:


> In Novum each layer has an (almost stationary) timbre with an envelope. By changing the envelope(s) you are changing the source material where the granular engine is working on.
> 
> Each grain is a small particle of your source audio. Depending on the grain size this can be as short as a few milliseconds or as long as 5 seconds. Each grain is emitted at a certain position along your source sample. So think of it as an emitter of grains, and this emitter has a certain position. The emitter constantly creates new grains.
> 
> With SPEED in the ENV section you determine how fast the grain-emitter moves along your samples. With START and L1 and L2 you can specify where the emitter should start on note-on and you can make the Emitter position loop between L1 and L2 if you set the mode to "CYCLE" or "PING PONG". In mode "ONE-SHOT" the L1 and L2 are ignored.
> 
> I admit that this is currently not explained in the manual, I will do 3 pages about the basics and specifics of granular synthesis as soon as I find the time!
> 
> Does this information help?


Thanks Peter, that's very helpful. I've just tried this with a preset and everything works as you described. However, back to the patch I was working on and none of the controls seem to be affecting the sound in the way they should. Is it possible I've somehow turned the env section off or disabled something by accident? I can send you a quick vid from my phone if it helps.


----------



## Peter V

Banquet said:


> Thanks Peter, that's very helpful. I've just tried this with a preset and everything works as you described. However, back to the patch I was working on and none of the controls seem to be affecting the sound in the way they should. Is it possible I've somehow turned the env section off or disabled something by accident? I can send you a quick vid from my phone if it helps.


Please enable "embed samples in patch", use save as to save it, deactivate "embed samples in patch" and send the patch you just saved to me: peter at dawesomemusic dot com 
In this way I can see best whats going on!


----------



## Banquet

I sent Peter the patch and he replied within minutes with a very detailed explanation, including screenshots, of why my patch settings were causing the envelope controls to look like they weren't affecting the sound (I had grain density very low and length very high, causing only 1 grain to be generated every 500 seconds, so the envelope generator didn't have much to do!!)

I can't over-express how impressed I am with Peter's dedication to helping people use his wonderful software. I'll be buying this for sure. Everything about this, from the generous demo time, to the amazing support and not least the instrument itself is just first class.


----------



## doctoremmet

I am curious to hear what true sound design magicians like mister Clouser are going to come up with, using NOVUM.


----------



## charlieclouser

richmwhitfield said:


> Re the manual for anyone else


Hahahaha hurrrr durrrr.... I'm an idiot. 

I was looking in that menu for some command to install the factory content, but:

1 - I didn't even see the "Open Manual" command even though I was looking right at it, and....

2 - There *is* *no* command to "Install Factory Content" - you just drag it onto the plugin!

Stop making things so easy! Old guys like me who are accustomed to everything being hard get confused when things are easy!


----------



## tressie5

It's nice to see the huge amount of attention Novum is getting across the internet. You never know. It may be nominated for a TEC award next year.


----------



## c0nsilience

doctoremmet said:


> I am curious to hear what true sound design magicians like mister Clouser are going to come up with, using NOVUM.


Absolutely! I'm also curious with how many new sound design magicians that Novum will help spawn. This is just incredible.
Being in the present moment, on this thread, everyone involved and the creativity and imagination. There's a lot of positivity here and a lot of momentum. It's awe-inspiring to me. Whatever else is going on in the world, is what it is. Right here, right now, this is just affirming the best parts of when technology and humanity collide. 🙂


----------



## doctoremmet

I hope so (@tressie5). Peter is a developer with a vision, the proper execution and a brilliant mind. It helps he is also a musician. (One can tell).


----------



## c0nsilience

@doctoremmet Thank you for starting this thread nearly a year ago by showcasing Abyss, which is a wonderfully incredible synth. Little did many of us know at the time, that it was a prelude to what was to come with Novum. These are indeed Halcyon days!


----------



## doctoremmet

c0nsilience said:


> @doctoremmet Thank you for starting this thread nearly a year ago by showcasing Abyss, which is a wonderfully incredible synth. Little did many of us know at the time, that it was a prelude to what was to come with Novum. These are indeed Halcyon days!


My pleasure. My original interest was actually sparked by owning Biotek, and a year long anticipation for f.’em. Which made me F5 the Tracktion website on a daily basis. Little did I know I would encounter ABYSS that way. Seeing how good those other two synths are I had the feeing this new one HAD to be good.


----------



## c0nsilience

doctoremmet said:


> My pleasure. My original interest was actually sparked by owning Biotek, and a year long anticipation for f.’em. Which made me F5 the Tracktion website on a daily basis. Little did I know I would encounter ABYSS that way. Seeing how good those other two synths are I had the feeing this new one HAD to be good.


My trajectory was similar to yours. Picked up Biotek years ago, coupled with Taiho’s involvement with Andromeda and Venom, turned me on to WaveRazor, then SpaceCraft, Hyperion, and Abyss…wow, Abyss! Now, Novum. 

Tracktion is masterful at curation, for certain!


----------



## Peter V

Recently someone asked if you can use Novum for SFX, here is an example from Vortifex posted on KVR:


----------



## ckeddf

Peter V said:


> Recently someone asked if you can use Novum for SFX, here is an example from Vortifex posted on KVR:



Yeah, that was me. I already caved in and bought it. The demo lures you right in. It's so intuitive and fun.


----------



## zvenx

Blink and you miss it.
Been Demoing this, very interesting...
Alas in that interim JRR has removed Group coupon from being used to purchase this..
rsp


----------



## macmac

zvenx said:


> Blink and you miss it.
> Been Demoing this, very interesting...
> Alas in that interim JRR has removed Group coupon from being used to purchase this..
> rsp


Just noticed that too.


----------



## zvenx

Ah well.. not that it isn't worth the $107... but it is more a would like to have than a need.. Maybe it will go on an equivalent sale ($90) sometime in the future...

rsp


----------



## Peter V

Sometimes in Novum the sounds look weirdly inspiring to me. Or funny. Like this one (made by Yuli Yolo)


----------



## richmwhitfield

That fish does not look happy!


----------



## c0nsilience

richmwhitfield said:


> That fish does not look happy!


But it sounds wonderful! 😁


----------



## Peter V

richmwhitfield said:


> That fish does not look happy!


Nah, the fish is just trying to sing really low ...


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> Nah, the fish is just trying to sing really low ...


----------



## Peter V

Review: Dawesome Novum | Audio Plugin Guy


Sonic adventurers, sound designers, granular synth freaks and audio tweakers, welcome to the latest exploration that plumbs the depths, or should I say, ‘grains’, of sampled waveforms. Dawesome’s Novum synth offers everyone the opportunity to deep dive into the rabbit hole that is granular...




www.audiopluginguy.com


----------



## Cepheus

Very nice and creative synth, 1-day buy.

I like the MPE implementation, it is very responsive with my Rise and MPE really adds value to the movement of sounds. Hope to find more time the coming days to experiment with my own samples, replacing envelopes etc Diving into this rabbit hole. The interface is beautiful and not complicated while doing really complicated things. However, I don’t like the effects rack box, too small and the little arrows are fiddly. The effects are great but I would like an distortion of waveshaper in there next to DIRT in the SYN tab. Maybe some EQ and dynamic controls?

Someone mentioned this: it immediately crashes Reaper when a 2nd Novum instantiates in Reaper 6.61 (win 10, 64bits). Happens here too. Was this already addressed?


----------



## doctoremmet

Cepheus said:


> Happens here too. Was this already addressed?


It was, but there hasn’t been a new patch officially pushed out as far as I know - so soon after release. I think the best move is to send Peter (the developer) an email. He is very active in this thread but can’t possibly see any and all support requests. He’s left his email in here somewhere; I’ll find it and post it here shortly.

Edit: here you go:


----------



## Peter V

doctoremmet said:


> It was, but there hasn’t been a new patch officially pushed out as far as I know - so soon after release. I think the best move is to aend Peter (the developer) an email. He is very active in this thread but can’t possibly see any and all support requests. He’s left his email in here somewhere; I’ll find it and post it here shortly.


Thx, I already reached out, and already got confirmation that it works now. 
The update (1.02) should also be available now via tracktion dot com


----------



## outland

zvenx said:


> Blink and you miss it.
> Been Demoing this, very interesting...
> Alas in that interim JRR has removed Group coupon from being used to purchase this..
> rsp


Yes, I bought it last night and the "Group" coupon had already been removed at that point. Still, the price was only $17 higher. One really can't complain too loudly. 

Thanks, Peter, for all your hard work. Very cool!


----------



## Alchemedia

outland said:


> Yes, I bought it last night and the "Group" coupon had already been removed at that point.


Why has Uncle E removed the disc coupon?


----------



## zvenx

Alchemedia said:


> Why has Uncle E removed the disc coupon?


My guess is the distributor asked him to.
rsp


----------



## sostenuto

Want ABYSS as well. This impacted both purchases. 😦


----------



## outland

Alchemedia said:


> Why has Uncle E removed the disc coupon?


Zvenx's guess is my guess as well; alternatively, perhaps it was just a mistake to attach a coupon to it at the outset. $107 (what I paid) still seems like a really low price.


----------



## elucid

Peter V said:


> I feel the greatest appreciation for Takemitsu both as a composer and as a philosopher!
> 
> In my sleeping room I have one sheet of paper where wrote down the principles and the goals for Dawesome. In this way I remind myself every single evening and morning about what I want to achieve. It is German, but i attached it anyways - it says "Jeder Sound ist ein Instrument" - every sound is an instrument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The two elements "every image is an instrument" and "every movement is an instrument" will be addressed later ... Dawesome is a project with roughly a two decade roadmap.


‘a project with roughly a two decade roadmap’

Please be careful crossing the road, won’t you? We need to see how this project will unfold.


----------



## Peter V

elucid said:


> ‘a project with roughly a two decade roadmap’
> 
> Please be careful crossing the road, won’t you? We need to see how this project will unfold.


Sure! Let me tell you a story: during my time at university I was fascinated by math, but I also had huge interest in all kind of other disciplines. One day I made acquaintance with a young artist. His art is stone sculpting, and he choose to work on the hardest material, granite. And while I was in my early twenties and lived into the day this guy was in his thirties, but he pursued a mission: to create a global band of stones. Day by day he worked on his stone, as it takes 1-3 years to sculpt _one_ of his stones. Often in the evening, after a whole day of hard work, you could not even notice that there is a ny difference or progress. I was so impressed by his dedication and patience, and that he has made a decision what to do with his live, and that he was willing to embark on a project with a span of a lifetime! 

"Two decade roadmap" may sound silly if you consider Dawesome to be a company. But it is more like the global band of stones, I have a direction and a vision in mind, and it is an easy estimate that it is nothing you can accomplish in a few years. 

The artist is Wilfried Behre, and he travels the world to work with local artists, using their local traditional methods and tools, so maybe there is also one stone of him in your country. Or he is just in this moment working on it.


----------



## tressie5

I looked on his site. Unfortunately, it seems like he's never sculpted in America, unless I missed it.


----------



## Peter V

tressie5 said:


> I looked on his site. Unfortunately, it seems like he's never sculpted in America, unless I missed it.


He hopefully still has some decades to work ...


----------



## grabauf

Here's a review: https://www.audiopluginguy.com/review-dawesome-novum/
with the following warning:

*There are creative consequences in your decision to use Novum.* Side-effects may include, but are not limited to: _severe bouts of inspiration, sleep deprivation, sudden loss of interest in other synths, increased heart rate, pupil dilation, massive dopamine release, programmed neuronal cell growth, weighty frontal lobes, and a perma-grin that may last up to the rest of your life, fits of bliss, loss of meaningless relationships, a decrease in superficiality, cancelling of your streaming services, and a sudden urge to delete all of your social media lunch plate art house photos._ 🙂


----------



## c0nsilience

grabauf said:


> Here's a review: https://www.audiopluginguy.com/review-dawesome-novum/
> with the following warning:
> 
> *There are creative consequences in your decision to use Novum.* Side-effects may include, but are not limited to: _severe bouts of inspiration, sleep deprivation, sudden loss of interest in other synths, increased heart rate, pupil dilation, massive dopamine release, programmed neuronal cell growth, weighty frontal lobes, and a perma-grin that may last up to the rest of your life, fits of bliss, loss of meaningless relationships, a decrease in superficiality, cancelling of your streaming services, and a sudden urge to delete all of your social media lunch plate art house photos._ 🙂


It's all true! 😁


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> Sure! Let me tell you a story: during my time at university I was fascinated by math, but I also had huge interest in all kind of other disciplines. One day I made acquaintance with a young artist. His art is stone sculpting, and he choose to work on the hardest material, granite. And while I was in my early twenties and lived into the day this guy was in his thirties, but he pursued a mission: to create a global band of stones. Day by day he worked on his stone, as it takes 1-3 years to sculpt _one_ of his stones. Often in the evening, after a whole day of hard work, you could not even notice that there is a ny difference or progress. I was so impressed by his dedication and patience, and that he has made a decision what to do with his live, and that he was willing to embark on a project with a span of a lifetime!
> 
> "Two decade roadmap" may sound silly if you consider Dawesome to be a company. But it is more like the global band of stones, I have a direction and a vision in mind, and it is an easy estimate that it is nothing you can accomplish in a few years.
> 
> The artist is Wilfried Behre, and he travels the world to work with local artists, using their local traditional methods and tools, so maybe there is also one stone of him in your country. Or he is just in this moment working on it.


Lovely story Peter.

I know a couple of young people getting into music and I always tell them to think long term and get into the long game mindset.

But... what is a "band of stones"? Maybe something got lost in translation


----------



## Peter V

Pier said:


> Lovely story Peter.
> 
> I know a couple of young people getting into music and I always tell them to think long term and get into the long game mindset.
> 
> But... what is a "band of stones"? Maybe something got lost in translation


He places stones all over the globe. If you connect them (in your mind, or on a map) it becomes a "band" (belt?) of stones. Or maybe a necklace (hanging on planet earth).


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> He places stones all over the globe. If you connect them (in your mind, or on a map) it becomes a "band" (belt?) of stones. Or maybe a necklace (hanging on planet earth).


Oooohhh like a fabric band.

I was thinking more like a rock band 😂

(rock as in the music genre)


----------



## c0nsilience

Pier said:


> I know a couple of young people getting into music and I always tell them to think long term and get into the long game mindset.


Not to sideline this thread at all, but you bring up a very salient point and this is sage advice. Music, as a smaller subset of the entertainment industry, is commerce; but MUSIC as a passion, is a lifestyle choice to be creative and make the hyphen between the birth date and the death date really mean something by creatively inspiring others. I definitely see it as a social good that strengthens the fabric of our society and helps create much more than it destroys, thus enhancing the overall human experience. But that's just me!


----------



## Peter V

So, the first crack of Novum is out - probably something to be proud of!? 

I tend to view is like this: I can't do much against this, and it is mostly young people who have no money who are using cracked software. 

Which brings me to the idea that my plugins should be available with a _massive_ educational discount to support young musicians. I remember very well the times when I had tons of ideas, but almost no money. 

*I am curious - what are your views on this? *


----------



## c0nsilience

Peter V said:


> So, the first crack of Novum is out - probably something to be proud of!?
> 
> I tend to view is like this: I can't do much against this, and it is mostly young people who have no money who are using cracked software.
> 
> Which brings me to the idea that my plugins should be available with a _massive_ educational discount to support young musicians. I remember very well the times when I had tons of ideas, but almost no money.
> 
> *I am curious - what are your views on this? *


I think extending kindness to those young musicians will pay you back ten fold. 🙂


----------



## doctoremmet

Peter V said:


> So, the first crack of Novum is out - probably something to be proud of!?


Probably just Kanye who wanted to base an entire album on NOVUM altered 808s


----------



## SupremeFist

I'm torn on this one because although I love Abyss and Dawesome Kick Machine, I am very much not a "sound designer". In fact I positively fear being tempted down a rabbit hole of sound design because my prejudice is that that would waste the very limited time I have to write new music. For that reason I've always been mainly a preset-tweaker. So I'd like to hear from anyone with the same general vibe who has tried Novum.


----------



## jbuhler

SupremeFist said:


> I'm torn on this one because although I love Abyss and Dawesome Kick Machine, I am very much not a "sound designer". In fact I positively fear being tempted down a rabbit hole of sound design because my prejudice is that that would waste the very limited time I have to write new music. For that reason I've always been mainly a preset-tweaker. So I'd like to hear from anyone with the same general vibe who has tried Novum.


The nice thing in this respect is that you can quickly make a set of patches in the same family by dropping new samples on the presets. For me that means you can quickly get to your own variant of a patch without doing extensive patch building. My sense is that there’s a plan to add additional banks of presets/samples in the future so that should allow for plenty of preset-tweaking without needing to do the building from scratch.


----------



## sostenuto

SupremeFist said:


> I'm torn on this one because although I love Abyss and Dawesome Kick Machine, I am very much not a "sound designer". In fact I positively fear being tempted down a rabbit hole of sound design because my prejudice is that that would waste the very limited time I have to write new music. For that reason I've always been mainly a preset-tweaker. So I'd like to hear from anyone with the same general vibe who has tried Novum.


Could just Copy /Paste this as my current Response.
OTH _ lengthy, diverse, Preset list ( 40+ ) calms angst.


----------



## SupremeFist

jbuhler said:


> The nice thing in this respect is that you can quickly make a set of patches in the same family by dropping new samples on the presets. For me that means you can quickly get to your own variant of a patch without doing extensive patch building. My sense is that there’s a plan to add additional banks of presets/samples in the future so that should allow for plenty of preset-tweaking without needing to do the building from scratch.


Thank you, that is useful!


----------



## Pier

Peter V said:


> So, the first crack of Novum is out - probably something to be proud of!?
> 
> I tend to view is like this: I can't do much against this, and it is mostly young people who have no money who are using cracked software.
> 
> Which brings me to the idea that my plugins should be available with a _massive_ educational discount to support young musicians. I remember very well the times when I had tons of ideas, but almost no money.
> 
> *I am curious - what are your views on this? *


There's really nothing you can do about it.

Probably +90% of people that will pirate it would not have paid for it anyway (plugin hoarders, poor students, etc).

Honestly, I have a really hard time picturing a pro pirating audio software. The danger of downloading something malicious into your computer is way too high.

An educational discount is a great idea. Those users will love you forever and long term the more people get invested in your software, the better it will be for you.

Freakshow Industries just opted to let your steal their software right from their website.


----------



## tressie5

I'll go check on over at Freakshow later to see what's doing. In the meanwhile, Novum can be quite addicting. It really is what I hoped Abyss would be. It did take me a minute to figure out how to modulate parameters, but now that I have, designing sounds is a walk in the park. And it's interesting: I have yet to load samples in all six slots as just one or two manipulated samples are sometimes enough for a granular pad or crumbly moving ethereal soundscape.


----------



## bermudagold

Peter V said:


> So, the first crack of Novum is out - probably something to be proud of!?
> 
> I tend to view is like this: I can't do much against this, and it is mostly young people who have no money who are using cracked software.
> 
> Which brings me to the idea that my plugins should be available with a _massive_ educational discount to support young musicians. I remember very well the times when I had tons of ideas, but almost no money.
> 
> *I am curious - what are your views on this? *


I've always been torn on edu discounts and how big they should be...millenials and gen z struggle with understanding the monetary value of time, and the concepts of intrinsic and inherent value;...I teach kids and they have been raised under the freemium model on everything, and they live in a time where freeware, open source, and donationware abound...which they don't realize is a relatively new thing...it probably didn't exist in your youth or at least wasn't robust like now; it certainly didn't in my youth...which fosters a sense of entitlement where they end up un-compelled to pay for anything...there are no free lunches in this world and you have to invest to reap reward, including in yourself...somehow this gets lost which is very disconcerting...the kids in my classes have disposable income yet still pirate everything rather than develop discernment for more fruitful future purchases using freeware...there are so many examples across industries of the user base refusing to donate to freeware devs, or reward their philanthropy by buying the upgrade or follow on products....the reality is if you can afford a computer, and broadband internet to download tons of plugins, you can save up for Novum or any other tool you really need/want....unfortunately a lot of data shows it just doesn't happen...helm/vital is a recent example just in this vertical...and I'm sure Tracktion can give you numbers on Waveform Free downloads vs Waveform Pro Upgrades...and even many professional charted artists have been caught using hacks!

On the upside, the fact that it's already cracked means it will likely be the next Serum...the tool everybody is told they need to get first when they decide to start this hobby...It would be inevitable with a successful product, and may not be worth combating;.. as the current market is subject to the same impressionable forces of social media; acceptance and validation...sales are driven by the impetus to collect plugins like baseball cards, and/or play with dsp like a video game as a form of leisure in a gamification experience...not that these aren't perfectly valid hobbies, they just don't have much to do with music


----------



## richmwhitfield

What do you mean by 'helm/vital is a recent example'? 

I think edu versions are great. If one person buys and edu version of something rather than pirate then that is a positive and a little more money in the pocket of the dev. Another great option , imo, is rent-to-own. 

Everything gets cracked. It's very possible that someone using a crack will never pay full price, or even the edu price, but I would think there is more chance that they might if a cheaper way to get hold of the plugin is available.


----------



## outland

Peter V said:


> So, the first crack of Novum is out - probably something to be proud of!?
> 
> I tend to view is like this: I can't do much against this, and it is mostly young people who have no money who are using cracked software.
> 
> Which brings me to the idea that my plugins should be available with a _massive_ educational discount to support young musicians. I remember very well the times when I had tons of ideas, but almost no money.
> 
> *I am curious - what are your views on this? *


My first thought: Peter, you are SO charitable. 

My second thought: having taught Middle School (11-14 year old children) for about 34 years, I noticed, particularly towards the end of my career, a distinct lack of appreciation for intellectual property amongst my students. And, please, believe me when I suggest that it's not a "lack of money," by in large, that produces the desire to use cracked software; many of those I taught downright *resented* the fact that anyone would charge for software, music, etc. when I informed them that the actions they were engaged in were actually a form of theft. After a discussion, some of them understood that when they stole software or other form of media, there truly were victims for this crime and essentially it would affect them as end-users, though they may not understand fully how it did so (since there was less variety or offerings and this can be hard for the individual to gauge.) A number of the pupils, however, were either too intellectually callow or ethically bereft to be able to conceive of the notion above their own narcissistic desires. You are certainly correct in noticing this behavior among "young people" generally, but, in my experience, this has absolutely nothing to do with lack of funds. This type of conduct was rife among the students I taught and they were virtually all upper middle class and above: there was definitely no shortage of cash among those kids. They chose to steal.

So, my last thought: an educational discount will definitely be helpful to some (particularly those who may be footing the bill for their own education as I did), but I wouldn't perceive this as an effective way to stem off cracking in a meaningful way. Most (if not functionally "all") people _choose_ to use illegal software; there is no life-defining compunction so to do. 

I'm not sure this is helpful. I hope that our societies change into more ethical, law-abiding communities, but I have no real illusions about seeing this in my lifetime. Basically now, if someone thinks they can get away with something, they will try it, regardless of who it is that gets hurt.


----------



## bermudagold

Nico5 said:


> Wow, that’s a lot of generalizing shade thrown at the entirety of a couple of generations without the slightest hint of acknowledgment how the prior generations have also mortgaged the future, that these generations have to live with.


not at all...I can understand those points fully...acknowledging one does nothing to negate the other...generalizations will always exist...and they will always be relevant when supported by objective data...just as there will always be exceptions to any rule; there will always be data points in the tails of the distribution...the largest surface area under the curve will however still hold the meaning


----------



## sostenuto

maybe someday return to current reality here ??


----------



## sostenuto

where the heck are the MODS ???


----------



## bermudagold

Nico5 said:


> Do you think generalizations without nuance and context are more helpful in illuminating a conversation and build community or more likely to sow more tribal divisions into groups that the members don’t even control belonging to?


probably the latter...but that's not what is happening here...two people provided arguments with plenty of context and highlighted nuance...there is lots of data on my generation being ineffective parents...even though it doesn't pertain to me, I don't get upset when it is brought up...see how that works?...don't take offence where none needs to be taken...but that is a different topic, so that conversation needn't take place here....peace


----------



## bermudagold

sostenuto said:


> where the heck are the MODS ???


this thread literally has pages dedicated to jokes that have nothing to do with the product or music...were you bothered by those?...
Peter asked for views, and he got some sincere thoughts and responses...you shouldn't be upset by that...this led to a temporary ancillary discussion which none of the participants are pursuing....the thread has not been derailed
The conversation may have went higher brow than you were comfortable with for a brief moment,...but I'm confident you will survive


----------



## c0nsilience

So, how about Novum? Has anyone else experienced a sudden resurgent interest in Abyss due to Novum or am I alone on this? 🙂


----------



## sostenuto

bermudagold said:


> this thread literally has pages dedicated to jokes that have nothing to do with the product or music...Peter asked for views, and he got some sincere thoughts and responses...you shouldn't be upset by that...this led to a temporary ancillary discussion which none of the participants are pursuing....the thread has not been derailed
> The conversation may have went higher brow than you were comfortable with for a brief moment,...but I'm confident you will survive


When your higher-level intellect figures out what a Thread here on VI-C is about, then consider commenting again. Otherwise stop wasting valued space and time.


----------



## Nico5

bermudagold said:


> ...but that's not what is happening here





bermudagold said:


> don't take offence where none needs to be taken...


Being of the older generation myself, I didn't take personal offense, but didn't think making piracy an inter-generational battleground topic was necessary to express empathy with Peter's software being pirated.

Be that as it may, clearly my concern seemed a pretty lonely voice in the room. So I deleted my complaining posts, since I don't want to distract any more from Peter's most amazing synth, which has taken a really interesting novel angle at synthesis and sound design.

I had already bought Abyss when it first came out some time ago, but Novum speaks even more to my lengthy journey of fiddling with the internals of sound creation in ever novel ways - a journey that started with a lowly Jupiter-4, I purchased all those years ago, when it was first released.

In addition, seeing Peter's delightful persona and how much thought, loving care and attention to detail he is spending not only in synth design, but also in how he interacts with current and future customers is a breath of fresh air in the current music landscape.

Whenever I get a little depressed about issues popping up with some of the established larger sound and software makers (some of whom make me question my further investment), I get excited and happy to see and purchase from Peter and a handful of other independent developers who are setting high bars for innovation and customer friendliness.


----------



## outland

Nico5 said:


> … a backlash to the abuse of intellectual property by prior generations?


Nico, this is a fair question, but I feel that it founders a bit in that: 

1) I taught up to three generations of students. At the end, I had grandchildren of some of my earliest students. I watched the deterioration over time. 

2) What would have caused a "backlash" (unless you mean a "continuation")? What would have caused such a reaction in this particular generation? Mind you, I'm not arguing that no other generation would have misused the technology this way if it had been available, but it is clear that such a misuse has happened and increased rapidly (hence, I think, the motivation behind Peter's question and his framing of it as how it pertains to "young people" without money.) 

3) Other behavior demonstrating the accelerating abuse of intellectual property is amply demonstrated in virtually all subject areas that require work capable of being stolen, e.g., research papers being plagiarized wholesale in an attempt to get credit for the work of someone else. In the district in which I taught, we actually had a number of parents write papers for their children (and they subsequently got furious when, not following directions, they earned "C" or lower for their work.) There have actually been many articles about these trends in academic journals. It is a recognized problem worldwide. 

4) Your concern for rifts is laudable, but recognizing a growing problem as it pertains to the plausible effect on the creation/proliferation of the tools that many of us purchase for use in our creations (not to mention concern for the developers getting paid for their efforts) is a fair and laudable concern as well. Recognition of the same certainly does not have to result in "tribalism"; nobody is saying that this is a behavior that "all" (or even "most") of a generation partake in this sort of action. If you feel there is an error in the discussion, however, please do feel free to correct it. You've shown respect in the discussion so far and I'm sure that you will continue to do so. The association of a given behavior to a latter or current generation may be somewhat disconcerting, but it should be remembered that such is plausible (just as previous generations have demonstrated behaviors that are similarly somewhat unsavory only to watch those negative characteristics fade away in their progeny.)


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## Nico5

outland said:


> Nico, this is a fair question, but I feel that it founders a bit in that:


Thank you for your thoughtful response - and I would love to carry on that conversation, but as I mentioned in my post just above yours, I'm also sensitive to not further distracting from Peter's most amazing synth. This sub-conversation might be an interesting and valid one in a separate thread maybe? Maybe the topic being something like "is piracy mostly a generational issue?" or something?


----------



## poly6

So how do I sample this thread and feed it to Novum? The chaotic noise here would probably be a great source for some granular synthesis. And back and forth of opinions would make an interesting source of modulation.


----------



## outland

Nico5 said:


> Thank you for your thoughtful response - and I would love to carry on that conversation, but as I mentioned in my post just above yours, I'm also sensitive to not further distracting from Peter's most amazing synth. This sub-conversation might be an interesting and valid one in a separate thread maybe? Maybe the topic being something like "is piracy mostly a generational issue?" or something?


And thanks to you for expressing your original concern in the measured manner you did. 

Perhaps, this would be a fine topic for continued discussion. I don't think that I should be the OP of such a thread, but I'd probably take part if it was started. 

Cheers!


----------



## Nico5

poly6 said:


> So how do I sample this thread and feed it to Novum? The chaotic noise here would probably be a great source for some granular synthesis. And back and forth of opinions would make an interesting source of modulation.


You could try running (some of) the posts through TTS (text-to-speech) software, and then import the resulting audio files into Novum and see what happens?


----------



## outland

c0nsilience said:


> So, how about Novum? Has anyone else experienced a sudden resurgent interest in Abyss due to Novum or am I alone on this? 🙂


I'm not sure if it's so much of a "resurgent" interest (as that would require a loss of interest,) _per se_, but yes, I am really looking forward to seeing how they can be integrated. I imagine there's quite a bit of exceptionally fascinating sounds to be explored judging by how amazing each one is by itself.


----------



## c0nsilience

outland said:


> I'm not sure if it's so much of a "resurgent" interest (as that would require a loss of interest,) _per se_, but yes, I am really looking forward to seeing how they can be integrated. I imagine there's quite a bit of exceptionally fascinating sounds to be explored judging by how amazing each one is by itself.


We are definitely in alignment. I’ve had Abyss for a little under a year and it is a gorgeous synth. It hasn’t been getting much love lately due to time constraints, but Novum has also pushed my attention back toward Abyss. Peter’s work goes hand in glove with sonic exploration and I’m really excited to be a peripheral part of this amazing journey along with all of you. 🙂


----------



## Peter V

Oh, I am sorry that my question about your opinion to software piracy did create some tension and a sense of having derailed this thread! And when I hypothesised that this is often (young) people w/o much money - this was not meant as an offense against anyone. I confess: when I started making electronic music I used a cracked version of Cubase. Thank you to everyone for sharing your thoughts and opinions. 

It seems we all agree at least on the following: 
* it makes no sense trying to combat cracking 
* pro's won't crack, and many people who can afford also won't crack 
* some people prefer to install cracked software over a 90 days free trial 
* there are young musicians that would benefit from edu discounts

I personally tend to assume that most people are good and well-meaning. I don't want to waste my time in dealing with crackers etc, I see no reward in doing so. However, if there is only one musician, who benefits from access to tools through edu accounts - this feels rewarding to me (regardless of the cracking topic). 

And now back to Novum ...


----------



## Sampleconstruct

Playing with a granulated glass texture in Novum, the original sample is audible at the beginning of the video.


----------



## Peter V

Eric Kauffmann is musician and has one of the biggest Spanish speaking youtube channels about electronic music making. Here is his: 

NOVUM RAP 

View attachment NovumRap.mp3


----------



## Peter V

I learned today: there are already education discounts for all tracktion products, including Novum: 
https://www.tracktion.com/education 

It is 50% for individuals and even more for schools.


----------



## Tim_Wells

This product looks amazing and since Peter seems like such a great guy ... I would like to suggest some training tutorials. Something for those of us with questionable cognitive abilities.


----------



## richmwhitfield

If you haven't had a look at the manual I would do. It is made up of mini tutorials. Very helpful, but obviously video tutorials are prerable for some people, myself included.


----------



## Pier




----------



## richmwhitfield

Haha that is a coincidence! I had never heard of Martin Sturzter before today, then I watched a tutorial by S1gns of L1fe, where he created an ambient dub techno track and gave a couple of example albums - one of which was produced by Martin Sturtzer.

Looking forward to the livestream! Thanks for sharing


----------



## tressie5

As an ambient artist, I'm proud to see some of my influences (Martin Sturtzer, S1gns of L1fe) get shoutouts on VI.


----------



## sostenuto

Peter V said:


> I learned today: there are already education discounts for all tracktion products, including Novum:
> https://www.tracktion.com/education
> 
> It is 50% for individuals and even more for schools.


Peter _ if I missed post plz Link me _ otherwise, I read post here re. taking NOVUM creations to ABYSS. From your perspective, why is this done and what are benefits ?


----------



## Peter V

sostenuto said:


> Peter _ if I missed post plz Link me _ otherwise, I read post here re. taking NOVUM creations to ABYSS. From your perspective, why is this done and what are benefits ?


There will be an update of both Abyss and Novum that will allow exchanging tone colours between the two. I expect this to land in early autumn.


----------



## Markrs

Pier said:


>



Enjoying the music, and lovely seeing his cat wanting a fuss 😻


----------



## sostenuto

Peter V said:


> There will be an update of both Abyss and Novum that will allow exchanging tone colours between the two. I expect this to land in early autumn.


Thank-you ! Hate to wait _ hoping for ABYSS / NOVUM Bundle soon. Great products, regardless !
Surprised for sudden JRRShop removal of 'GROUP' pricing. Oh well .............


----------



## c0nsilience

I certainly don't view any of this as a "hypetrain". More like a "well deserved kudos for releasing a non-mediocre tool" sort of party!


----------



## sostenuto

c0nsilience said:


> I certainly don't view any of this as a "hypetrain". More like a "well deserved kudos for releasing a non-mediocre tool" sort of party!


🤷🏻‍♂️ soooo ... no matter the kudos __ ABYSS / NOVUM fall into 'magical' NICHE category ??? 
Fine, fine new contributions, but where to position /categorize _ with Omni 2.8, Falcon, Zebra 2, HALion 6, other ?


----------



## c0nsilience

sostenuto said:


> 🤷🏻‍♂️ soooo ... no matter the kudos __ ABYSS / NOVUM fall into 'magical' NICHE category ???
> Fine, fine new contributions, but where to position /categorize _ with Omni 2.8, Falcon, Zebra 2, HALion 6, other ?


Abyss and Novum are their own beasts! 🙂

If you position Omnisphere/Falcon/HALion at one end of the spectrum and every rackmount ROMpler and Nexus at the other end of the spectrum, Abyss and Novum still occupy their own respective lanes, and I’m not sure these lanes are on the same spectrum! 🙂

Does that help at all or no?


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> 🤷🏻‍♂️ soooo ... no matter the kudos __ ABYSS / NOVUM fall into 'magical' NICHE category ???
> Fine, fine new contributions, but where to position /categorize _ with Omni 2.8, Falcon, Zebra 2, HALion 6, other ?


So:

Omni, Falcon and Halion: these are incredibly expansive multifunctional tools, that are designed to do a lot of things. Multiple types of synthesis, a largely semi-modular architecture, incredibly vast array of routing and effects options, and powerful samplers / sample players. These have become platforms of their own, that can be used to create self-contained virtual instruments with dedicated macros or even scripted UIs (Falcon / Halion) that can be released in “player versions” of the software. This is also reflected by the HUGE third party support in terms of soundware / presets and the most reputable geniuses are and have been creating a never decreasing flow of new sounds for these platforms. TL;DR these are all the ultrarare combination of being jacks of all trades and at the same time master of MANY (instead of NONE).

Zebra: one could argue it is almost a platform like the ones above, but it kind of falls short a tiny bit in my personal opinion. Mostly because it doesn’t offer the exact same multitide of options, scripting etc. But in terms of being a well established synthesizer that will likely still be used a decade from now, and in terms of third party developers being on board it easily surpasses all of the above synths, except for Omnisphere. One could buy Zebra and Omni and between those two arguably NEVER need another synth.

Yet, except for Omni (cue a remark by Kenny right about here) I have all of these synths, but still purchased many more. Why? Mostly because of two factors: a) workflow & inspiration and b) they do (a couple of) things incredibly well.

Example: Newfangled Audio Generate. Ad a) great easy-to-grasp one page UI, ad b) finally it allowed me to create Westcoast Buchla sounds without the headaches that architecture usually implies to my weirdly wired brain. 

Where does Dawesome stuff fit in? Obviously, these synths are way more “niche”, i.e. Peter did not aim to create a platform or make a jack of all trades. Rather he has talked and explained elaborately about his objectives and goals with these synths, right here in this thread.

NOVUM can achieve things spectrally and sonically that no other synth can to my knowledge. It strips a sample into little reusable coloured lego bricks, and I can either reassemble them into something slightly similar to what the original sample sounded like, or take them apart all together and frankenstein something unique out of them. Now, rather than being “just another granular synth” it does this in a way that is way more precise so you don’t end up with just the usual grainy noisy pad sounds. And secondly the UI / UX is simple and gorgeous and a joy to use. So this is a musical instrument that allows you to make your own unique sounds, quickly (once you grasp the basic concept and flow) and in a fun way. Both synths also have a sonic character that I did not have at my disposal before.

Of course, the following is also true / worthy of your consideration:

- at the end of the day, they are all synths. Maybe you don’t need a new synth

- or, if you don’t “feel it” maybe this one isn’t for you

- personally I do not expect NOVUM to become a prime platform in terms of dozens and dozens of third party presets being available any time soon (nor do I feel this is the developer’s aim)

- a new synth always takes a time investment 

- one can spend the same $ only once

- never surrender to FOMO

- there is a generous 90 day fully functional demo option!

Hope this helps putting things into perspective @sostenuto


----------



## Bee_Abney

Do you happen to have a handful of jazz muted trumpet samples? A Chinese string sample and some Chinese singing? How about a dog? Throw them into Novum (six at once), layer the unaltered samples on top, add two tracks of percussion and a huge amount of really bad judgement, and you could get this:


----------



## Bee_Abney

SupremeFist said:


> I'm torn on this one because although I love Abyss and Dawesome Kick Machine, I am very much not a "sound designer". In fact I positively fear being tempted down a rabbit hole of sound design because my prejudice is that that would waste the very limited time I have to write new music. For that reason I've always been mainly a preset-tweaker. So I'd like to hear from anyone with the same general vibe who has tried Novum.


It comes with presets that you can tweak and be happy with. You can, as @jbuhler said, drop in new samples onto the settings of a preset. So, other than choosing your sample, you are just back to tweaking again.

Whether there ends up being lots of additional soundsets/preset banks depends, I'm sure, on the success of Novum first, and on purchases of any early releases. I think it has a really good chance of taking off, and with third-party developers of presets too. It is a lot of fun to use and offers new techniques to play with; and both those things appeal to preset developers.

The versatility of the instrument may be a factor in sales and preset development. It's too early for me to say. It appears to me to be suitable for designing a lot of different kinds of sounds, usable in a lot of different kinds of music. But if people perceive it as limited to 'ambient pads' or something like that, it will reduce the pool of people buying it, and so we might not see the breadth of third-party soundsets I'd hope to see.

So, for preset users and tweakers who want to avoid wholesale sound design, I think that this likely should be a great choice; but check the ninety-day free trial first and see how you get on with it. That would mean missing the intro. price, but it could be worth it to be sure.


----------



## Bee_Abney

On educational discounts. I'm in favour of them for the students; and, albeit without doing any research!, for the business. I also think it is possible to get creative in what you offer. For example, you could provide a special educational deal making them free for use in a classroom environment (or for coursework). This seems like an instrument that would be great to cover in a cross-over music and physics lesson with teenagers!


----------



## sostenuto

c0nsilience said:


> Abyss and Novum are their own beasts! 🙂
> 
> If you position Omnisphere/Falcon/HALion at one end of the spectrum and every rackmount ROMpler and Nexus at the other end of the spectrum, Abyss and Novum still occupy their own respective lanes, and I’m not sure these lanes are on the same spectrum! 🙂
> 
> Does that help at all or no?


Helps for sure, to see other 'early' active User views _ to help refine mine. 
Have backed away from several quality 'niche' offerings _ having not yet chosen partner to OMNI v2.8 HALion is current top contender.

THX !


----------



## c0nsilience

Bee_Abney said:


> It comes with presets that you can tweak and be happy with. You can, as @jbuhler said, drop in new samples onto the settings of a preset. So, other than choosing your sample, you are just back to tweaking again.
> 
> Whether there ends up being lots of additional soundsets/preset banks depends, I'm sure, on the success of Novum first, and on purchases of any early releases. I think it has a really good chance of taking off, and with third-party developers of presets too. It is a lot of fun to use and offers new techniques to play with; and both those things appeal to preset developers.
> 
> The versatility of the instrument may be a factor in sales and preset development. It's too early for me to say. It appears to me to be suitable for designing a lot of different kinds of sounds, usable in a lot of different kinds of music. But if people perceive it as limited to 'ambient pads' or something like that, it will reduce the pool of people buying it, and so we might not see the breadth of third-party soundsets I'd hope to see.
> 
> So, for preset users and tweakers who want to avoid wholesale sound design, I think that this likely should be a great choice; but check the ninety-day free trial first and see how you get on with it. That would mean missing the intro. price, but it could be worth it to be sure.


There's a tremendous amount of wisdom in this post. Thank you @Bee_Abney. Drop by drop, the water pot is filled.


----------



## c0nsilience

sostenuto said:


> Helps for sure, to see other 'early' active User views _ to help refine mine.
> Have backed away from several quality 'niche' offerings _ having not yet chosen partner to OMNI v2.8 HALion is current top contender.
> 
> THX !


You're more than welcome! Unlike you, I've almost never backed away from 'niche' offerings...to the chagrin of my wife! Many of them have collected digital dust. Some of them, I regret. Yes, I'm biased, but I can say with all the sincerity my little heart can muster, both Abyss and Novum have reinvigorated my passion for synths and I've been tinkering around with them for 20+ odd years now.


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> So:
> 
> Omni, Falcon and Halion: these are incredibly expansive multifunctional tools, that are designed to do a lot of things. Multiple types of synthesis, a largely semi-modular architecture, incredibly vast array of routing and effects options, and powerful samplers / sample players. These have become platforms of their own, that can be used to create self-contained virtual instruments with dedicated macros or even scripted UIs (Falcon / Halion) that can be released in “player versions” of the software. This is also reflected by the HUGE third party support in terms of soundware / presets and the most reputable geniuses are and have been creating a never decreasing flow of new sounds for these platforms. TL;DR these are all the ultrarare combination of being jacks of all trades and at the same time master of MANY (instead of NONE).
> 
> Zebra: one could argue it is almost a platform like the ones above, but it kind of falls short a tiny bit in my personal opinion. Mostly because it doesn’t offer the exact same multitide of options, scripting etc. But in terms of being a well established synthesizer that will likely still be used a decade from now, and in terms of third party developers being on board it easily surpasses all of the above synths, except for Omnisphere. One could buy Zebra and Omni and between those two arguably NEVER need another synth.
> 
> Yet, except for Omni (cue a remark by Kenny right about here) I have all of these synths, but still purchased many more. Why? Mostly because of two factors: a) workflow & inspiration and b) they do (a couple of) things incredibly well.
> 
> Example: Newfangled Audio Generate. Ad a) great easy-to-grasp one page UI, ad b) finally it allowed me to create Westcoast Buchla sounds without the headaches that architecture usually implies to my weirdly wired brain.
> 
> Where does Dawesome stuff fit in? Obviously, these synths are way more “niche”, i.e. Peter did not aim to create a platform or make a jack of all trades. Rather he has talked and explained elaborately about his objectives and goals with these synths, right here in this thread.
> 
> NOVUM can achieve things spectrally and sonically that no other synth can to my knowledge. It strips a sample into little reusable coloured lego bricks, and I can either reassemble them into something slightly similar to what the original sample sounded like, or take them apart all together and frankenstein something unique out of them. Now, rather than being “just another granular synth” it does this in a way that is way more precise so you don’t end up with just the usual grainy noisy pad sounds. And secondly the UI / UX is simple and gorgeous and a joy to use. So this is a musical instrument that allows you to make your own unique sounds, quickly (once you grasp the basic concept and flow) and in a fun way. Both synths also have a sonic character that I did not have at my disposal before.
> 
> Of course, the following is also true / worthy of your consideration:
> 
> - at the end of the day, they are all synths. Maybe you don’t need a new synth
> 
> - or, if you don’t “feel it” maybe this one isn’t for you
> 
> - personally I do not expect NOVUM to become a prime platform in terms of dozens and dozens of third party presets being available any time soon (nor do I feel this is the developer’s aim)
> 
> - a new synth always takes a time investment
> 
> - one can spend the same $ only once
> 
> - never surrender to FOMO
> 
> - there is a generous 90 day fully functional demo option!
> 
> Hope this helps putting things into perspective @sostenuto


Appreciate such a thorough, informed Reply, Temme ! Generate, ABYSS, NOVUM have had such tempting, solid, early /ongoing support. Sound Design, Granular, are very attractive, affordable categories, yet each reduces resources for Omni 'companion'. Not simply cost, but commitment to reach decent level of user capability. 

Not expecting 'right' answer, or succumbing to FOMO. Perhaps naive outreach to rationalize fun, enjoyment, diversion of niche choices, versus discipline of broad, longer-term aspects of additional full platform. As senior, now single _ truly helps to view other trusted perspectives - to break cycle of narrow considerations, not likely to produce '_different result_' ( definition of 'insanity' comes in here somewhere ? ) 🤪

Thanks and regards


----------



## Bee_Abney

I'm curious about how easy it is to share presets. Without re-reading the thread, or referring to the manual, I decided to give it a try. Here is a link to two presets with (I hope!) the samples embedded. It is a Google Drive link because for whatever reason, uploading presets that include samples never seems to work on this board.

There are two MP3s attached. If anyone gives it a try, could you let me know if the presets load up sounding like my demos? Thanks either way! (Either for trying it out, or for gently ignoring me.) They both use samples I've created, so consider them CC0.


----------



## Sampleconstruct

Playing with a custom patch/rich tonal soundscape in Novum, video starts using only layer 1, then the other layers are added consecutively.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Sampleconstruct said:


> Playing with a custom patch/rich tonal soundscape in Novum, video starts using only layer 1, then the other layers are added consecutively.



Utterly magical. This is terrific, beautiful and balanced.

I don't know yet whether you can record/automate turning layers on and off; the times I've done it so far I was recording to audio.


----------



## SupremeFist

Bee_Abney said:


> It comes with presets that you can tweak and be happy with. You can, as @jbuhler said, drop in new samples onto the settings of a preset. So, other than choosing your sample, you are just back to tweaking again.
> 
> Whether there ends up being lots of additional soundsets/preset banks depends, I'm sure, on the success of Novum first, and on purchases of any early releases. I think it has a really good chance of taking off, and with third-party developers of presets too. It is a lot of fun to use and offers new techniques to play with; and both those things appeal to preset developers.
> 
> The versatility of the instrument may be a factor in sales and preset development. It's too early for me to say. It appears to me to be suitable for designing a lot of different kinds of sounds, usable in a lot of different kinds of music. But if people perceive it as limited to 'ambient pads' or something like that, it will reduce the pool of people buying it, and so we might not see the breadth of third-party soundsets I'd hope to see.
> 
> So, for preset users and tweakers who want to avoid wholesale sound design, I think that this likely should be a great choice; but check the ninety-day free trial first and see how you get on with it. That would mean missing the intro. price, but it could be worth it to be sure.


Thank you for this excellent explanation! Demo it is.


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm curious about how easy it is to share presets. Without re-reading the thread, or referring to the manual, I decided to give it a try. Here is a link to two presets with (I hope!) the samples embedded. It is a Google Drive link because for whatever reason, uploading presets that include samples never seems to work on this board.
> 
> There are two MP3s attached. If anyone gives it a try, could you let me know if the presets load up sounding like my demos? Thanks either way! (Either for trying it out, or for gently ignoring me.) They both use samples I've created, so consider them CC0.



Ghostly Melodic Pad _ very nice in NOVUM _ Demo. Wish I could Save. Korg User 1 works as well.


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Ghostly Melodic Pad _ very nice in NOVUM _ Demo. Wish I could Save. Korg User 1 works as well.


Thank you very much for confirming! So, you can't save them in the demo? You can still load them from wherever you want to keep them, though.

There are some very experienced and prolific sound designers who have been having a look at this thread; so, who knows, we could get a preset expansion from one of them before too long!


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Thank you very much for confirming! So, you can't save them in the demo? You can still load them from wherever you want to keep them, though.
> 
> There are some very experienced and prolific sound designers who have been having a look at this thread; so, who knows, we could get a preset expansion from one of them before too long!


Demo - Yes _ very helpful in getting personal handle on NOVUM _ yet 'Purchase' resets often. Good to see how easy sharing Presets actually is.


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Demo - Yes _ very helpful in getting personal handle on NOVUM _ yet 'Purchase' resets often. Good to see how easy sharing Presets actually is.


I agree. As and when time allows, I might put together a little set to share here. Less for the patch design (mine is very basic), and more just to share the samples for other people to play with.


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> I agree. As and when time allows, I might put together a little set to share here. Less for the patch design (mine is very basic), and more just to share the samples for other people to play with.


Yes ! Prolific potential for vast range of Users often not sharing in other ways.
Playing a bit with Blackhole choices to your Preset.


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Yes ! Prolific potential for vast range of Users often not sharing in other ways.
> Playing a bit with Blackhole choices to your Preset.


Clever idea. I recently discovered free reverb called Spatio Light (thanks to @Markrs). I might try that out as an external reverb. There are some good internal effects options in Novum too, though; reverb, clouds, shimmer, chorus, delay, phaser. There is a paid version I'd like to upgrade to at some point, but even the free version is rather nice.

https://www.anwida.com/as_plugins/spatio-light/
Edited to say: I tried it - Blackhole works very much better in this case, and I don't usually like it!


----------



## Markrs

Bee_Abney said:


> Clever idea. I recently discovered free reverb called Spatio Light (thanks to @Markrs). I might try that out as an external reverb. There are some good internal effects options in Novum too, though; reverb, clouds, shimmer, chorus, delay, phaser. There is a paid version I'd like to upgrade to at some point, but even the free version is rather nice.
> 
> https://www.anwida.com/as_plugins/spatio-light/
> Edited to say: I tried it - Blackhole works very much better in this case, and I don't usually like it!


Would Valhalla SuperMassive work? It is a very good free very long tail reverb


----------



## Fleer

This must have been asked before, so sorry for repeating, but are all Dawesome plugins (Abyss, Chop Suey and Novum) fully Apple Silicon (M1) native and OSX Monterey compatible?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Markrs said:


> Would Valhalla SuperMassive work? It is a very good free very long tail reverb


Good suggestion. The Dotted 8th Chorus Echo preset works very nicely.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Fleer said:


> This must have been asked before, so sorry for repeating, but are all Dawesome plugins (Abyss, Chop Suey and Novum) fully Apple Silicon (M1) native and OSX Monterey compatible?


I'm on a PC; but there is a version for macOS 10.13 or later. I don't know what that means, though.


----------



## Fleer

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm on a PC; but there is a version for macOS 10.13 or later. I don't know what that means, though.


Thanks, I was trying to figure out why the specs are different between these synths. Hoping that Peter may confirm they’re all Apple Silicon native.


----------



## c0nsilience

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm curious about how easy it is to share presets. Without re-reading the thread, or referring to the manual, I decided to give it a try. Here is a link to two presets with (I hope!) the samples embedded. It is a Google Drive link because for whatever reason, uploading presets that include samples never seems to work on this board.
> 
> There are two MP3s attached. If anyone gives it a try, could you let me know if the presets load up sounding like my demos? Thanks either way! (Either for trying it out, or for gently ignoring me.) They both use samples I've created, so consider them CC0.



Yep, both patches have the samples embedded and sound like your mp3's. 👍


----------



## sostenuto

PluginGuru reviewing NOVUM NOW!



This is weekly Livestream. It gets saved for later viewing !


----------



## Bee_Abney

c0nsilience said:


> Yep, both patches have the samples embedded and sound like your mp3's. 👍


Yay! Thank you!

Then it is incredibly easy. Just select embed samples from the drop down menu, if it isn't already. Save your patch. Then, from the drop down menu click to manage your patches, and you are taken to the location.


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> PluginGuru reviewing NOVUM NOW!
> 
> 
> 
> This is weekly Livestream. It gets saved for later viewing !



Did he start at 8pm? I'll have to watch it later, then.


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Did he start at 8pm? I'll have to watch it later, then.


30 minutes ago _ He is in Portland, OR _ USA You can scan forward later easily.
Also _ he does some integration with UNIFY as well. Cool stuff !
(edit) really positive _ and ran to end of first hour of Livestream !! Cool !


----------



## Sonarium

Fleer said:


> This must have been asked before, so sorry for repeating, but are all Dawesome plugins (Abyss, Chop Suey and Novum) fully Apple Silicon (M1) native and OSX Monterey compatible?


Yes, they are nativ Apple Silicon


----------



## hanysz

Bee_Abney said:


> Do you happen to have a handful of jazz muted trumpet samples? A Chinese string sample and some Chinese singing? How about a dog? Throw them into Novum (six at once), layer the unaltered samples on top, add two tracks of percussion and a huge amount of really bad judgement, and you could get this:


What a cacophony! I love it! This really helps to dispel the "mellow ambient pads" typecasting.


----------



## tressie5

And what's wrong with "mellow ambient pads?"


----------



## Peter V

sostenuto said:


> Ghostly Melodic Pad _ very nice in NOVUM _ Demo. Wish I could Save. Korg User 1 works as well.


If you can't save in NOVUM, then you have not started your free trial! Click UNLOCK, and you have 90 days without any limitations or annoying white noise.


----------



## Bee_Abney

tressie5 said:


> And what's wrong with "mellow ambient pads?"


----------



## Peter V

Tim_Wells said:


> This product looks amazing and since Peter seems like such a great guy ... I would like to suggest some training tutorials. Something for those of us with questionable cognitive abilities.


Yes, I will add more training tutorials. I assume you are aware of these three: 
 

 

There is also a lot coming from many youtubers in the next weeks.


----------



## Sampleconstruct

Bee_Abney said:


> Utterly magical. This is terrific, beautiful and balanced.
> 
> I don't know yet whether you can record/automate turning layers on and off; the times I've done it so far I was recording to audio.


Thank you, I haven't tried to automate the switches, but it produces audible clicks anyway so automating the layer gain would be the way to go.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Sampleconstruct said:


> Thank you, I haven't tried to automate the switches, but it produces audible clicks anyway so automating the layer gain would be the way to go.


Ah, thank you! That will be perfect.


----------



## Peter V

Sampleconstruct said:


> Thank you, I haven't tried to automate the switches, but it produces audible clicks anyway so automating the layer gain would be the way to go.


Ah, yes. Will make this clickless and automate-able, however I'd also rather use layer gain for automation - as this allows me to define the fade-length in my DAW.


----------



## Sampleconstruct

Peter V said:


> Ah, yes. Will make this clickless and automate-able, however I'd also rather use layer gain for automation - as this allows me to define the fade-length in my DAW.


But when e.g. an LFO is already assigned to layer gain automating layer gain could interfere, I'll try this.


----------



## LinusW

This is a sick sound designer tool! Getting a trial while watching a video on it, and while the video is running I have a feeling I'll buy it before even bothering installing the trial.


----------



## Tim_Wells

Peter V said:


> Yes, I will add more training tutorials. I assume you are aware of these three:
> 
> There is also a lot coming from many youtubers in the next weeks.


First, thank you so much! ❤️ No, I wasn't aware, but one actually came up in my YT feed shortly after I posted that. I guess it never hurts to research something before I open my mouth.


----------



## LinusW

This is like merging a sampler, granular freeze like paulstretch and a vocoder/envelope follower.


----------



## LinusW

...and just bought it at JRR. 



> This license needs to be manually generated


Oh no, it's Sunday! I guess I will install the trial anyway.


----------



## Bee_Abney

LinusW said:


> ...and just bought it at JRR.
> 
> 
> Oh no, it's Sunday! I guess I will install the trial anyway.


That's unfortunate! On the plus side, the trial is fully functioning, and you're going to have a lot of fun!


----------



## jcrosby

Peter V said:


> Yes, I will add more training tutorials. I assume you are aware of these three:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a lot coming from many youtubers in the next weeks.



This genuinely feels like something completely fresh as far as virtual instruments go.
So I've seen that you can deconstruct sounds, and _impose_ characteristics of other sounds....

Can Novum _impose_ the natural pitch drift that occurs in a sample? I.e. could I import two samples, one tuned, one with some natural pitch drift (for example a string bed moving in/out of tune), and impose its pitch drift of one onto the other ('tuned') sample?

Very cool, very fresh approach to virtual instruments...

(PS: Spotted a VI Control folder in one of your videos 😉  )


----------



## sostenuto

Just to remind _ PluginGuru YT Livestream, yesterday, did very enthusiastic run-through of NOVUM. Have not seen Guru so excited and involved with new offering. Ran apprx 30 min _ may want to check. NOVUM part started apprx. 22 min into Livestream.



*@ Peter V* _ have you reviewed, and can you comment on PG's very early auditioning of NOVUM capabilties ?? Personally pleased with range of controls he used and discussed.


----------



## Nico5

I ended up passing right by the "install trial" step - and purchased Novum at the Tracktion website at the same price as the JRRshop price, with help of the emailed discount code I had received from Tracktion (presumably since I have other Tracktion synths, including Abyss).

And then proceeded to go through the User Manual / Tutorial PDF. 

I can only warmly recommend to spend the hour or so, going through those pages while following along. I'm typically not a person starting with the manual, but this one was an exceptionally efficient and gratifying investment of my time.

An amazing synth!


----------



## zzz00m

sostenuto said:


> Just to remind _ PluginGuru YT Livestream, yesterday, did very enthusiastic run-through of NOVUM. Have not seen Guru so excited and involved with new offering. Ran apprx 30 min _ may want to check. NOVUM part started apprx. 22 min into Livestream.
> 
> 
> 
> *@ Peter V* _ have you reviewed, and can you comment on PG's very early auditioning of NOVUM capabilties ?? Personally pleased with range of controls he used and discussed.



PluginGuru did seem very enthusiastic about Novum! I don't think he originally intended to run as long as he did with Novum, but it seems that he was hooked, and couldn't bear to pull himself away from it. 

A lot of times when he demonstrates a new product, he is discovering it more fully just as he presents it, with perhaps only a cursory preview before live streaming. 

I think Novum really got his sound designer creative juices flowing! Looking forward to a Unify pack for this one!


----------



## Peter V

sostenuto said:


> Just to remind _ PluginGuru YT Livestream, yesterday, did very enthusiastic run-through of NOVUM. Have not seen Guru so excited and involved with new offering. Ran apprx 30 min _ may want to check. NOVUM part started apprx. 22 min into Livestream.
> 
> 
> 
> *@ Peter V* _ have you reviewed, and can you comment on PG's very early auditioning of NOVUM capabilties ?? Personally pleased with range of controls he used and discussed.



I really enjoyed watching the movie, obviously he is really experienced person _and_ he already had spent some time to understand the main concepts on Novum. 

I love the way how he felt inspired by Novum - my design goal for Novum was to create a tool that first and foremost sparks inspiration, is fun to use and gives result fast. I am so happy to see that it works - at least for PG.


----------



## Fleer

AND he’ll be making patches, which he hasn’t done for a while, again showing how much he’s struck by Novum.


----------



## kgdrum

OK I installed NOVUM & it really sounds beautiful 🎶❤️🎶 What a fantastic synth!
It contrasts nicely with all of the more traditional analog type synths I use.
Unfortunately I think I’m going to have to actually watch the tutorials and read the manual to really understand this but what an interesting new synth! 👍
Congratulations! @Peter V


----------



## scoplunk

OK, I finally got a chance to check this out. I have to say that I generally like the unrelenting enthusiasm for new things on this forum. OTOH, I feel like either people don't actually use these things for anything other than preset playback or they're so enamored of their new toy that they fail to notice or mention some things that really need to be improved. I've been bitten a few times by this rah rah effect.

I generally like this and think it really is a great approach, but I have no idea how anyone considers the Mod section even useable. So, I put up a new LFO and I assign it to the Wet parameter on the Shimmer effect and then I assign it to the Wet parameter of the Reverb. Later, I want to figure out what's going on with that LFO and I select it and look at it in the Mod window and guess what it tells me it's modulating? Wet and Wet. Wet, what? There are lots of things that have a Wet parameter. OK, well, maybe if I click on one of those Wets, it will take me to the proper parameter. Nope. Left click, right click, shift-click, whatever-click and all you'll see is Remove as an option. Awesome. Oh, and the KeyTrack never shows its destination at all. Ever. So, the Mod section is currently far behind virtually every other soft synth I use. Didn't anyone try it? Maybe I missed that post.

I totally agree with someone who earlier pointed out that we need pitch jitter. It's probably my favorite granular parameter and I really miss it here.

I kind of like the way Novum separates the sample into different layers, but it sort of made a mess out of a theater organ sample I threw in. I couldn't really figure out what the different layers were supposed to be doing. They sounded similar, but were really choppy. I redrew the envelopes, but I wonder why all that choppiness had to occur in the first place. What exactly is the analysis looking for when it separates things and why did a fairly static organ note have to wind up being that choppy after analysis? Of course, I didn't throw a sample into a granulator and expect sample playback quality, but this felt like a lot of work to tame down compared to what I can usually get happening in any other granulator I use.

This is a great product and I don't want to sound too negative. I love the way I can drag different timbres and envelopes from other presets and mix and match all of them. This is really unique. I also think that as I get more experience with Novum, I'll understand the way it separates samples and be able to take advantage of that feature. Generally, I like the interface and find it easy to get around, although I could imagine a more useful manual or maybe a parameter reference for those of us who like to know what some of these parameters are actually doing. The current manual is more like a quick tutorial. The whole product is certainly beautifully designed and I love the crazy changes I can get from the timbre flower. But, even though I think this is a fabulous approach, I'm still on the fence about whether this really sounds so different from the other granulators I use. When I hear the presets, they sound pretty much like a lot of granulated pads. But, this is "early days" for this product and I won't be surprised if there are lots of interesting things to come. I'll be playing with it more, myself. I really find it intriguing. I just hope that Mod section gets fixed and we get that pitch jitter parameter...


----------



## el-bo

@Peter V 

Trying the demo this morning. Seems like a very cool instrument. I do have a couple of suggestions, however, regarding the actual demo:

- Please consider changing the intermittent sound-blast. If it could come down in volume and get some more LP filtering  , it wouldn't be so jarring. It's not the worst I've experienced, but it's still unnecessarily intrusive.

- Please consider allowing user-preset saving, and instead disabling the recall. Without being able to save, there is zero impetus to actually try anything other than very superficial testing. If instead, you disable the loading of user preset saves, at least until a license has been bought, none of that work is lost. 

------------

Also, trying and failing to assign the (linked_ gain slider to the modwheel. The manual says that modulating CC11 (Expression) should do it, and that it defaults to listening to the modwheel. but I can't seem to get it to work. Am I missing something obvious?

Thanks


----------



## Peter V

el-bo said:


> @Peter V
> 
> Trying the demo this morning. Seems like a very cool instrument. I do have a couple of suggestions, however, regarding the actual demo:
> 
> - Please consider changing the intermittent sound-blast. If it could come down in volume and get some more LP filtering  , it wouldn't be so jarring. It's not the worst I've experienced, but it's still unnecessarily intrusive.


Will do, as a setting. The feedback from BETA testers and sound designers is, that they often get very interesting sounds. As a workaround: don't press keys on your controller while you see "processing" under the waveform. The intermediate sound happens as all other settings are switched in an instant, but re-constructing the layers (sometimes) takes some time. 
(And if you find an intermediate sound that you like: press UNDO, click the lock symbols and load the patch again. Now you have the intermediate sound as patch!) 



el-bo said:


> - Please consider allowing user-preset saving, and instead disabling the recall. Without being able to save, there is zero impetus to actually try anything other than very superficial testing. If instead, you disable the loading of user preset saves, at least until a license has been bought, none of that work is lost.


*You have not started your free trial period! *You need to click UNLOCK to start you free 90 days trial. The trial comes without ANY limitations. You can save, load, there is no noise, no nag screen. Its 90 days of the full version. 



el-bo said:


> ------------
> 
> Also, trying and failing to assign the (linked_ gain slider to the modwheel. The manual says that modulating CC11 (Expression) should do it, and that it defaults to listening to the modwheel. but I can't seem to get it to work. Am I missing something obvious?


Click the + in the mod section, there is an entry MODWHEEL. 
If you already have CC 11 you can also click on the CC 11 to change the midi source this modulator should listen to.







el-bo said:


> Thanks


You are welcome


----------



## chengming

el-bo said:


> - Please consider changing the intermittent sound-blast. If it could come down in volume and get some more LP filtering  , it wouldn't be so jarring. It's not the worst I've experienced, but it's still unnecessarily intrusive.
> 
> - Please consider allowing user-preset saving, and instead disabling the recall. Without being able to save, there is zero impetus to actually try anything other than very superficial testing. If instead, you disable the loading of user preset saves, at least until a license has been bought, none of that work is lost.


You actually can do that yourself by clicking on Unlock and typing in your Tracktion credentials - you get 90 days without any restrictions then.


----------



## LinusW

@Peter V First feature suggestion: Upsampling sources before decomposing. 

My 48 kHz source sample was a little short so I threw it in my audio editor, upsampled to 192 kHz and (for some reason) then changed the sample rate to 96 kHz without resampling. So the new source played an octave lower and had more samples to feed the granular engine. 
I threw that 96 kHz source into Novum and the layer separation got even better. When playing in the same octave as the original 48k source, the grains were smoother making pads even easier.


----------



## Pier

LinusW said:


> @Peter V First feature suggestion: Upsampling sources before decomposing.
> 
> My 48 kHz source sample was a little short so I threw it in my audio editor, upsampled to 192 kHz and (for some reason) then changed the sample rate to 96 kHz without resampling. So the new source played an octave lower and had more samples to feed the granular engine.
> I threw that 96 kHz source into Novum and the layer separation got even better. When playing in the same octave as the original 48k source, the grains were smoother making pads even easier.


This will probably have an impact on the CPU usage, no?


----------



## zzz00m

I was experimenting with Novum using a 3rd party sample finder (Waves Cosmos). It's very easy to filter for certain types of samples in your sample library (many thousands here), audition them, and then drag n drop them directly into the Novum GUI.

Fun!!! 

But as I was doing so, I lost track of what samples I had dragged into Novum. Maybe I'm just overlooking something, but where can I find the imported sample names in Novum? Does it keep a list somewhere?

Thanks!


----------



## el-bo

Peter V said:


> Will do, as a setting. The feedback from BETA testers and sound designers is, that they often get very interesting sounds. As a workaround: don't press keys on your controller while you see "processing" under the waveform. The intermediate sound happens as all other settings are switched in an instant, but re-constructing the layers (sometimes) takes some time.
> (And if you find an intermediate sound that you like: press UNDO, click the lock symbols and load the patch again. Now you have the intermediate sound as patch!)
> 
> 
> *You have not started your free trial period! *You need to click UNLOCK to start you free 90 days trial. The trial comes without ANY limitations. You can save, load, there is no noise, no nag screen. Its 90 days of the full version.
> 
> 
> Click the + in the mod section, there is an entry MODWHEEL.
> If you already have CC 11 you can also click on the CC 11 to change the midi source this modulator should listen to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are welcome


Oops! Missed that I had to register the demo. All sorted now 

But i'm still unsure of the modwheel settings. Am I wrong in thinking that CC11 should give me control of overall volume of the patch? I'm trying to assign the entire patch volume to the modwheel. how would I go about doing that?

And I think there is some confusion in what I mean by intermittent and what you thought I meant by intermediate. I was really only referring to the intermittent (i.e occasional) noise bursts...but again that was my mistake


----------



## c0nsilience

zzz00m said:


> I was experimenting with Novum using a 3rd party sample finder (Waves Cosmos). It's very easy to filter for certain types of samples in your sample library (many thousands here), audition them, and then drag n drop them directly into the Novum GUI.
> 
> Fun!!!
> 
> But as I was doing so, I lost track of what samples I had dragged into Novum. Maybe I'm just overlooking something, but where can I find the imported sample names in Novum? Does it keep a list somewhere?
> 
> Thanks!


Click the hamburger menu -> "Manage Sample Locations". This works well if you have a folder of samples. If you're dragging and dropping into Novum and aren't embedding the samples in the patch, Novum creates a representation of the sample, but you'll need to know where the sample folder is located. With something like Waves Cosmos, I'd suggest first dragging and dropping the samples into a folder and then adding that folder as a Sample Location in Novum to help with sample management.
This information is also on page 20 of the very well-written user manual in case you need it for future reference (you can get to the user manual via the hamburger menu as well).


----------



## zzz00m

c0nsilience said:


> Click the hamburger menu -> "Manage Sample Locations". This works well if you have a folder of samples. If you're dragging and dropping into Novum and aren't embedding the samples in the patch, Novum creates a representation of the sample, but you'll need to know where the sample folder is located. With something like Waves Cosmos, I'd suggest first dragging and dropping the samples into a folder and then adding that folder as a Sample Location in Novum to help with sample management.
> This information is also on page 20 of the very well-written user manual in case you need it for future reference (you can get to the user manual via the hamburger menu as well).


Yes thanks, I saw that in the manual.

But my situation is that I have over 20,000 samples in dozens of folders on my sample drive. At this point, I do not yet know which ones I want to have in a Novum Sample Location, or a Novum preset.

Hence that is why I was using an external sample manager to drag random ad-hoc samples into Novum to play around with them. So these were just experiments and auditions using a Novum preset as a base, then dragging an external sample into it to see what shakes out.

I hit a couple of interesting samples that I wanted to note for re-use, but I wasn't sure which ones they were. I was hoping that Novum kept a file list of external samples that were temporarily imported, but not yet saved internally to a Novum location. Some sample players store such items in a temporary bin or bank for later quick access.

And a point from page 20 in the manual that I am not totally clear on, how Novum stores this "representation" of the sample:

_"When you import audio NOVUM will always create
its own representation of the sample. So it does not
matter if you erase or move the original sample."_


----------



## el-bo

Having played more with this, I think this is the granular synth everyone has been chasing. Maybe Im wrong! Maybe it's just me. 

But with great power comes great responsibility. It's so good that it just cries out to be better.

Definitely some ideas for 'improvements' (read: Personal wishes), but will have to gauge how well they might be received


----------



## LinusW

Pier said:


> This will probably have an impact on the CPU usage, no?


I don’t think a 0.4s or 0.8s long sample will do much difference in CPU nor RAM.


----------



## Pier

LinusW said:


> I don’t think a 0.4s or 0.8s long sample will do much difference in CPU nor RAM.


I imagine going from processing 44100 samples per second to 88200 or 192000 samples per second will have an impact on CPU usage. I'm not referring to doing the upsampling, but the actual realtime engine of Novum. (unless Novum is already oversampling?)

The other point is that I think most people will be using samples longer than 0.8 seconds.

Don't get me wrong, as a desktop user with a powerful CPU I'm all-in for Peter adding a hi quality CPU intensive mode to Novum 

I'm only saying it's a problem to consider (a problem which I'm sure Peter takes very seriously and has caused him many headaches).


----------



## LinusW

Pier said:


> The other point is that I think most people will be using samples longer than 0.8 seconds.


I think upsampling makes a difference on short samples. A short sound at 192000 samples or a four times longer sound at 48000 would be the same data amount. 

If I had a 1+ second source fed into Novum, it works as it is.


----------



## gzapper

scoplunk said:


> OK, I finally got a chance to check this out. I have to say that I generally like the unrelenting enthusiasm for new things on this forum. OTOH, I feel like either people don't actually use these things for anything other than preset playback or they're so enamored of their new toy that they fail to notice or mention some things that really need to be improved. I've been bitten a few times by this rah rah effect.
> 
> I generally like this and think it really is a great approach, but I have no idea how anyone considers the Mod section even useable. So, I put up a new LFO and I assign it to the Wet parameter on the Shimmer effect and then I assign it to the Wet parameter of the Reverb. Later, I want to figure out what's going on with that LFO and I select it and look at it in the Mod window and guess what it tells me it's modulating? Wet and Wet. Wet, what? There are lots of things that have a Wet parameter. OK, well, maybe if I click on one of those Wets, it will take me to the proper parameter. Nope. Left click, right click, shift-click, whatever-click and all you'll see is Remove as an option. Awesome. Oh, and the KeyTrack never shows its destination at all. Ever. So, the Mod section is currently far behind virtually every other soft synth I use. Didn't anyone try it? Maybe I missed that post.
> 
> I totally agree with someone who earlier pointed out that we need pitch jitter. It's probably my favorite granular parameter and I really miss it here.
> 
> I kind of like the way Novum separates the sample into different layers, but it sort of made a mess out of a theater organ sample I threw in. I couldn't really figure out what the different layers were supposed to be doing. They sounded similar, but were really choppy. I redrew the envelopes, but I wonder why all that choppiness had to occur in the first place. What exactly is the analysis looking for when it separates things and why did a fairly static organ note have to wind up being that choppy after analysis? Of course, I didn't throw a sample into a granulator and expect sample playback quality, but this felt like a lot of work to tame down compared to what I can usually get happening in any other granulator I use.
> 
> This is a great product and I don't want to sound too negative. I love the way I can drag different timbres and envelopes from other presets and mix and match all of them. This is really unique. I also think that as I get more experience with Novum, I'll understand the way it separates samples and be able to take advantage of that feature. Generally, I like the interface and find it easy to get around, although I could imagine a more useful manual or maybe a parameter reference for those of us who like to know what some of these parameters are actually doing. The current manual is more like a quick tutorial. The whole product is certainly beautifully designed and I love the crazy changes I can get from the timbre flower. But, even though I think this is a fabulous approach, I'm still on the fence about whether this really sounds so different from the other granulators I use. When I hear the presets, they sound pretty much like a lot of granulated pads. But, this is "early days" for this product and I won't be surprised if there are lots of interesting things to come. I'll be playing with it more, myself. I really find it intriguing. I just hope that Mod section gets fixed and we get that pitch jitter parameter...


I bought the thing but am a little disappointed as well.

It does some lovely massive pads but when you try to get specific with the layers it makes the original sound a bit too sproingy/low rez sounding. If they can clean that up and make each layer sound like a full rez element of the sound it'll be killer.


----------



## c0nsilience

zzz00m said:


> Yes thanks, I saw that in the manual.
> 
> But my situation is that I have over 20,000 samples in dozens of folders on my sample drive. At this point, I do not yet know which ones I want to have in a Novum Sample Location, or a Novum preset.
> 
> Hence that is why I was using an external sample manager to drag random ad-hoc samples into Novum to play around with them. So these were just experiments and auditions using a Novum preset as a base, then dragging an external sample into it to see what shakes out.
> 
> I hit a couple of interesting samples that I wanted to note for re-use, but I wasn't sure which ones they were. I was hoping that Novum kept a file list of external samples that were temporarily imported, but not yet saved internally to a Novum location. Some sample players store such items in a temporary bin or bank for later quick access.
> 
> And a point from page 20 in the manual that I am not totally clear on, how Novum stores this "representation" of the sample:
> 
> _"When you import audio NOVUM will always create
> its own representation of the sample. So it does not
> matter if you erase or move the original sample."_


Yep, I understand what you're talking about. Since you're using Cosmos, maybe mark the sample you've drag n dropped to Novum as a favorite in Cosmos so you can reference it before you've committed it to a patch in Novum:






As far as a temp folder, I cannot seem to find one, but that doesn't mean one doesn't exist.

In the future, something else that might help is if the name of the sample were viewable in the main window, or if mouse hovering over the sample would reveal it's name at the bottom of Novum with all the other tooltips:


----------



## Pier

LinusW said:


> I think upsampling makes a difference on short samples. A short sound at 192000 samples or a four times longer sound at 48000 would be the same data amount.


Same data amount in total, but not per second which I assume is what will have an impact on CPU.


----------



## LinusW

Pier said:


> Same data amount in total, but not per second which I assume is what will have an impact on CPU.


Yep, but as you said...


Pier said:


> I think most people will be using samples longer than 0.8 seconds.


And they will do fine. It's just about improving short samples being granulated in a smoother way and still (!) be a shorter audio source than most samples in the factory bank.


----------



## zzz00m

c0nsilience said:


> In the future, something else that might help is if the name of the sample were viewable in the main window, or if mouse hovering over the sample would reveal it's name at the bottom of Novum with all the other tooltips


Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking. And just assumed that I was maybe overlooking something obvious. This would get my vote for a feature request!

Clearly the intent is to keep the UI uncluttered, but it would be helpful to see the original imported sample name/path somewhere. 

Especially for use prior to committing to a "save patch". I assume that the imported sample is held in some sort of temp storage until the patch is saved, then the temp is overwritten if a new sample is imported. The tooltips display might be an ideal place for that info, but then again, I'm just wondering out loud. Maybe also an import history log with sample names somewhere under the hood, such as in the user folder?


----------



## LinusW

zzz00m said:


> Clearly the intent is to keep the UI uncluttered, but it would be helpful to see the original imported sample name/path somewhere.


Good idea, making it easier the day I wish to make a patch library, identifying through file source whether the sounds were built from my own samples and not some audio loop from Splice.


----------



## Peter V

gzapper said:


> I bought the thing but am a little disappointed as well.
> 
> It does some lovely massive pads but when you try to get specific with the layers it makes the original sound a bit too sproingy/low rez sounding. If they can clean that up and make each layer sound like a full rez element of the sound it'll be killer.


In such cases try HOMOGENIZE ... !


----------



## c0nsilience

It’s still my contention that Novum is best approached on its own merit. Comparison is the thief of joy and anyone that might be managing their expectations based on previous sampler and granular experiences is likely to not fully realize what kind of tool Novum is. 

The Timbre Flower, SYNTIFY, and Homogenize have kept me occupied for months. 🙂


----------



## doctoremmet

Yeah. But is doesn’t have KSP scripting though…


----------



## scoplunk

c0nsilience said:


> It’s still my contention that Novum is best approached on its own merit. Comparison is the thief of joy and anyone that might be managing their expectations based on previous sampler and granular experiences is likely to not fully realize what kind of tool Novum is.
> 
> The Timbre Flower, SYNTIFY, and Homogenize have kept me occupied for months. 🙂


Yes, but I guess you could apply that logic to every single virtual instrument ever made and then you would own all of them - which seems like the purpose of this forum for some people.

I spent a day with Novum today. It's a very cool idea. But, I wasn't able to make it do anything that I couldn't already do, often better, in Avenger. I actually put the same samples in and checked. No, I can't replace envelopes or timbres on Avenger the way I can on Novum, but getting the basic granulated sample to sound the way I want it to is easier for me on Avenger. Plus, as has already been mentioned - there's a sort of low bit rate sound that seems to show up in some of the layers in Novum that's hard to defeat. It's actually a great sound, when you want it, but if you don't want it, it won't go away. Yes, I tried Homogenize. That didn't fix it. 

In the end, of course, you're right. It's meaningless to argue about which granulator is better. The one that gets the results you want is the right one. Nothing else matters. I will definitely keep my eye on Novum. I love the concept and I wish every developer had Peter's attitude. I want to support him! But, I don't feel that Novum as it is today is a must have purchase for me. I really went in expecting the opposite, so I'm a little disappointed. But, that's just my POV. I would highly recommend that everyone try it out. The demo period is very generous so there's no problem diving in. It's a wonderful instrument and just because it didn't click for me today doesn't mean that I won't find the thing that's magical about it tomorrow.


----------



## Fleer

I get you, it’s a personal thing indeed. Different tastes make the world an interesting place. Similarly, I tried to like Avenger, I really did, repeatedly, but it just never seemed right to me, whereas Novum immediately drew me in.


----------



## doctoremmet

Now live:


----------



## richmwhitfield

Tuned in to get ear blasted with that awful premiere intro music!


----------



## c0nsilience

This makes me very happy that Novum is getting much deserved love and exploration as it will allow Peter V. to continue to develop and expand this already interplanetary tool! 🙂


----------



## Bee_Abney

I keep getting amazed by Novum. I'm running up against what appear to be limits, but then seeing my way around them. I didn't make a demo of just Novum, but I got some very nice results with a recording of birdsong combined with a hardware synth (nothing fancy, a Korg Monotron Duo - it's tiny). My patches used only three or four of the deconstructed elements. It was very textural, which is what I was looking for but I wanted something a bit more melodic as well. So I took the birdsong and enhanced some frequencies to tune it, overall, slightly to C. I then dropped this in to replace one of the unused deconstructed elements and activated it. This was then more melodic!

Here's a brief recording I have of two patches with Novum and one with Falcon, this latter made with birdsong only.


----------



## Sampleconstruct

Tenor sax phrase granulated in Novum, tweaking the modulation wheel while playing (assigned to several parameters, also decreasing grain speed).


----------



## Bee_Abney

Sampleconstruct said:


> Tenor sax phrase granulated in Novum, tweaking the modulation wheel while playing (assigned to several parameters, also decreasing grain speed).



I tried to keep my critical faculties working, thinking about what sort of textures were in the sound, how has it been processed, what other reverbs might make a good addition; but mostly, I was too busy feeling by chest resonate, my ribs rattle, and getting caught up in the grand and awful majesty that you conjured.

More concisely: Nice.


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> I tried to keep my critical faculties working, thinking about what sort of textures were in the sound, how has it been processed, what other reverbs might make a good addition; but mostly, I was too busy feeling by chest resonate, my ribs rattle, and getting caught up in the grand and awful majesty that you conjured.
> 
> More concisely: Nice.


Live YouTube _ Venous Theory Now. NOVUM +


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Live YouTube _ Venous Theory Now. NOVUM +



Thank you! Great tip - I'm off to give it a listen.


----------



## Sampleconstruct

Bee_Abney said:


> I tried to keep my critical faculties working, thinking about what sort of textures were in the sound, how has it been processed, what other reverbs might make a good addition; but mostly, I was too busy feeling by chest resonate, my ribs rattle, and getting caught up in the grand and awful majesty that you conjured.
> 
> More concisely: Nice.


Thank you, when playing with it in the studio on the big ADAM speakers and the big sub it was an overwhelming experience, total frequency massage...


----------



## richmwhitfield

Did you mean Databroth is live streaming?


----------



## sostenuto

richmwhitfield said:


> Did you mean Databroth is live streaming?


----------



## Bee_Abney

richmwhitfield said:


> Did you mean Databroth is live streaming?


He did! And Databroth made some very nice rhthms, beats, melodies and drones!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Sampleconstruct said:


> Thank you, when playing with it in the studio on the big ADAM speakers and the big sub it was an overwhelming experience, total frequency massage...


My speaker system isn't that great, but it does have some nice bass - I really felt it!


----------



## RoanK

Novum seems amazing! I’m sad that it’s not AAX compatible (which just means I can’t use it) but I look forward to hearing it everywhere ☺️


----------



## Maarten

RoanK said:


> Novum seems amazing! I’m sad that it’s not AAX compatible (which just means I can’t use it) but I look forward to hearing it everywhere ☺️


Maybe you can use the AAX version of Unify as a host for the plugin in Pro Tools?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Maarten said:


> Maybe you can use the AAX version of Unify as a host for the plugin in Pro Tools?


That or Metaplugin should work.


----------



## RoanK

Maarten said:


> Maybe you can use the AAX version of Unify as a host for the plugin in Pro Tools?


Thanks for the recommendation Maarten! I didn’t know that there is an AAX version of Unify. This synth might push me to try something like that.


----------



## Bee_Abney

RoanK said:


> Thanks for the recommendation Maarten! I didn’t know that there is an AAX version of Unify. This synth might push me to try something like that.


I did know but I'd completely forgotten until Maarten mentioned it!


----------



## Dr.Quest

Novum is just stunning. I can’t see running out of options with it. I took a simple Uke rhythm track and turned it into a gorgeous pad. Spectacular work, Peter!


----------



## RoanK

Bee_Abney said:


> That or Metaplugin should work.


This is a good recommendation too. Thanks Bee_Abney!


----------



## zzz00m

Maarten said:


> Maybe you can use the AAX version of Unify as a host for the plugin in Pro Tools?


_"One of the cool things with Unify is that any format of plug-in can load other formats of plug-ins – meaning the Audio Unit version can easily load VST3 and VST plug-ins while you’re using it in Logic Pro X (which doesn’t know what to do with VST or VST3 plug-ins)."_


----------



## Maarten

zzz00m said:


> _"One of the cool things with Unify is that any format of plug-in can load other formats of plug-ins – meaning the Audio Unit version can easily load VST3 and VST plug-ins while you’re using it in Logic Pro X (which doesn’t know what to do with VST or VST3 plug-ins)."_


Correct but this was about the AAX version of Unifiy, about Pro Tools and not Logic Pro (AU version)
From the faq:

You *can* use Unify to load VST/VST3 (and Audio Unit on Mac) plug-ins into Pro Tools by Avid.






faq [Unify Manual]







pluginguru.net


----------



## zzz00m

Maarten said:


> Correct but this was about the AAX version of Unifiy, about Pro Tools and not Logic Pro (AU version)
> From the faq:
> 
> You *can* use Unify to load VST/VST3 (and Audio Unit on Mac) plug-ins into Pro Tools by Avid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> faq [Unify Manual]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pluginguru.net


Yep, totally understood the original context regarding AAX, but this statement direct from the Unify website illustrates the general flexibility of any Unify plugin format to load other plugin formats, cross-platform as well.

This general info may be useful to users of other formats. Unify is available as AAX, so this is on-topic!


----------



## jesussaddle

Bee_Abney said:


> That or Metaplugin should work.


Love to hear people mention some of my favorites. I own both Metaplugin and Unify and I'm very happy with both, for different reasons. Metasynth is extremely good if you are trying to get virtual saturation, which has problems for cpu and developer complexity due to foldback artifacts - more and more plugin creators and DAW devs are realizing this phenomena can be audible for people with good hearing, and is very real:



So DDMF Metaplugin is my go to if I want to hear something virtually saturated like that done as accurately as possible. I did tests with it while using several virtual synths and effects employing virtual saturation and while I couldn't always hear the difference, if I tried with extremely simple waveforms as source material there was no question, and it made me very much more pleased to hear the effect I was running come of more powerfully, even if it is pretty subtle (using it on saturated square waves can make it more notieable for some reason.)

While intermodulation distortion can be negative, there are some deep things to consider (if you watch the following video please remove dogs to a noise proofed room or it could harm them):


On the other hand, Unify is the best of so many worlds. SkipPy (if that's how to pronounce it...) has done phenomenal work. Hopefully both of these devs are getting much earned success so they can continue their great work.


----------



## jesussaddle

I'm hear today because I'm deciding between Hyperion synth, Novum, and Abyss... Hyperion synth sounds fantastic IMHO.

[So far I have bought Chop Suey, Hyperion, Novum, and Abyss :D ]


----------



## Fleer

jesussaddle said:


> I'm hear today because I'm deciding between Hyperion synth, Novum, and Abyss... Hyperion synth sounds fantastic IMHO.


All three are pretty pretty good. And don’t forget F’em, a sublime FM synth.


----------



## jesussaddle

I just installed Chopsuey, which I also picked up because I want an easier time creating my sample libraries. I'll try f'em. I think I'm getting more towards game sound design and away from film scoring for the moment. I don't suppose you heard of DSP Motion and DSP Action which are pretty interesting for creativity?


----------



## jesussaddle

For some reason its not registering automatically, but then again, when I updated Tracktion to version 12 just now it didn't have the same registration process as the plugins they market. Oh good, the registration worked after a delay, the screen after the one that said Purchase must have gotten hung up for a minute... Phew! I'll definitely try Novum but its regular price is $180 or so. I was looking at it for about $130 and just missed the sale by a day to 2 unfortunately! Abyss was probably a bit easier to develop than Novum though so I understand the pricing.


----------



## Fleer

jesussaddle said:


> I just installed Chopsuey, which I also picked up because I want an easier time creating my sample libraries. I'll try f'em. I think I'm getting more towards game sound design and away from film scoring for the moment. I don't suppose you heard of DSP Motion and DSP Action which are pretty interesting for creativity?


Thanks. Haven’t checked them out yet.


----------



## Fleer

jesussaddle said:


> For some reason its not registering automatically, but then again, when I updated Tracktion to version 12 just now it didn't have the same registration process as the plugins they market. Oh good, the registration worked after a delay, the screen after the one that said Purchase must have gotten hung up for a minute... Phew! I'll definitely try Novum but its regular price is $180 or so. I was looking at it for about $130 and just missed the sale by a day to 2 unfortunately! Abyss was probably a bit easier to develop than Novum though so I understand the pricing.


I believe JRRshop still have Novum at $107. (Yes, I checked, they do.)


----------



## jesussaddle

doctoremmet said:


> True spectral processing is at the core of IRIS2, Steinberg Padshop and Unfiltered Audio’s SpecOps plugin for instance. So there are absolutely “spectral filtering” synths on the market.
> 
> What I’ve understood from some of Peter’s written explanation is that the spectral modeling is at the heart of the “colours pane” that allows you to pick multiple “tones” (waveforms) and put them on the 2D “crossfading strip”. People were wondering whether those tones (there are ca. 2000 of them) are samples. This is apparently not the case. The tones are coded in the form of “spectral models” and once you pick a tone, the synth “renders” a set of multi-samples (waveforms) across the keyboard apparently. The tones can be shaped by dialing down the “detail” that’s in the spectral model - but only BEFORE the waveforms get “rendered out” it seems (so that’s not something one can modulate). Then there’s moving the “playhead” over the strip with tones (over time, modulated by LFOs or an envelope, or other controller - e.g. modwheel or other MPE-controlled CC), and applying a pretty regular sounding filter - and applying an envelope on VCA and that’s about it. So I wouldn’t say ABYSS is a very complicated synth, in terms of architecture, and it doesn’t resemble Pigments, Padshop et al in terms of features. Far from it, I’d argue - which for me is part of the appeal (I also OWN all of the others haha, so there’s that).
> 
> I think Fleer was trying to give me some “sonic ballpark” and mentioned Iris and Pigments as a sort of reference points (helpful!) and did not mean to imply this synth is on the same plane feature-wise. Which it isn’t nor does it aim to be.
> 
> Again, the main appeal seems to be the simplicity, the GUI, the fact it let’s you make your own expressive MPE patches fast, and the sound character. Which solely based on the few patches I hear in the demos is rather geared towards “organic sounding rather noisy rich pads”. Maybe it’s a one trick pony, who knows? That’s why I am gauging fresh users and I am trying to lure the developer himself to this thread


Thank you for such a detailed post. I purchased Abyss last night and already created about 8 useful presets. The benefit of the Abyss approach to me is that I can simply MOD wheel or self-Macro combinations of things that are VERY expressive that would take a long time figuring out on many other synths (via MIDI CC knobs or more importantly volume or sustain pedal). Omnisphere for me is similar in that one can create a sort of Macro situation by using its Orb function. But Omnisphere recording of Org is glitchy on my end. 

But in Abyss last night for e.g. I created one preset that brought in EQ and other processing via mod wheel. For example the effect of creating a churchish "organ tone" filterish tone that pumps in and out creatively when you want, and makes something one could use perfectly in EDM because generally it sounds "light" but can "pump" in either on beat or off beat (depending on whether tis during a break, or during a verse). These morphing kind of presets sound natural and smooth, and organic, and I like that - its something that reminds me of the quality of Zebra Synth. So far I love these newer Tracktion-related products a great deal.


----------



## doctoremmet

jesussaddle said:


> Thank you for such a detailed post. I purchased Abyss last night and already created about 8 useful presets. The benefit of the Abyss approach to me is that I can simply MOD wheel or self-Macro combinations of things that are VERY expressive that would take a long time figuring out on many other synths (via MIDI CC knobs or more importantly volume or sustain pedal). Omnisphere for me is similar in that one can create a sort of Macro situation by using its Orb function. I created one preset that brought in EQ and other processing via mod wheel. For example the effect of creating a churchish "organ tone" filterish tone that pumps in and out creatively when you want, and makes something one could use perfectly in EDM because generally it sounds "light" but can "pump" in either on beat or off beat (depending on whether tis during a break, or during a verse). So far I love these Tracktion-related products a great deal.


My pleasure, glad it was helpful. Thank YOU for this post ^ - inspiring stuff indeed!


----------



## el-bo

@Peter V How long will this intro deal last, at JRRshop?

Thanks


----------



## c0nsilience

I’m glad Synthtopia is showing Novum some love:

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/...ntros-novum-a-new-take-on-granular-synthesis/


----------



## tressie5

Isn't it weird to have mixed feeling about Novum? As an ambient producer, I'm glad it exists since I wouldn't have to rob First federal to fund a setup like Martin Sturtzer's or Andrew Huang's. But then again, it's so easy now to create ambient tracks that my competition went from one producer per square mile to 100.


----------



## Pier

tressie5 said:


> But then again, it's so easy now to create ambient tracks that my competition went from one producer per square mile to 100.


Nobody cares how it was made. Like Andrew Scheps says, the only thing that matters is what comes out of the speakers.

Also ambient is a really niche genre. I doubt it's ever going to be a crowded space.

Don't worry about these things! Just make stuff you love.


----------



## c0nsilience

I think competition is a good thing. It raises the overall standards and benefits the listeners. 

Think about how many granular plugins existed before Novum… 😉


----------



## Nico5

tressie5 said:


> Isn't it weird to have mixed feeling about Novum? As an ambient producer, I'm glad it exists since I wouldn't have to rob First federal to fund a setup like Martin Sturtzer's or Andrew Huang's. But then again, it's so easy now to create ambient tracks that my competition went from one producer per square mile to 100.


As a former professional programmer, I've taken the liberty to make your post easy to use for other topics, unfortunately thereby also creating more posting competition 



> Isn't it weird to have mixed feeling about *$someNewTechnology*? As a *$creatorOfStuff*, I'm glad it exists since I wouldn't have to rob *$someBank* to fund a setup like *$industryLeaderA* or *$industryLeaderB*. But then again, it's so easy now to create *$stuff* that my competition went from one *$creatorOfStuff* per square mile to 100.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Arctic Fox has a review that doubles as a fast tutorial on a few features, followed by four minutes of demos. Nice and considered review.

In this, we learn that Arctic Fox is one of those extreme resonance tamers I hear so much about. (Free the resonance, free your mind! No spectral sausages for me.)


----------



## jesussaddle

tressie5 said:


> Isn't it weird to have mixed feeling about Novum? As an ambient producer, I'm glad it exists since I wouldn't have to rob First federal to fund a setup like Martin Sturtzer's or Andrew Huang's. But then again, it's so easy now to create ambient tracks that my competition went from one producer per square mile to 100.





scoplunk said:


> OK, I finally got a chance to check this out. I have to say that I generally like the unrelenting enthusiasm for new things on this forum. OTOH, I feel like either people don't actually use these things for anything other than preset playback or they're so enamored of their new toy that they fail to notice or mention some things that really need to be improved. I've been bitten a few times by this rah rah effect.
> 
> I generally like this and think it really is a great approach, but I have no idea how anyone considers the Mod section even useable. So, I put up a new LFO and I assign it to the Wet parameter on the Shimmer effect and then I assign it to the Wet parameter of the Reverb. Later, I want to figure out what's going on with that LFO and I select it and look at it in the Mod window and guess what it tells me it's modulating? Wet and Wet. Wet, what? There are lots of things that have a Wet parameter. OK, well, maybe if I click on one of those Wets, it will take me to the proper parameter. Nope. Left click, right click, shift-click, whatever-click and all you'll see is Remove as an option. Awesome. Oh, and the KeyTrack never shows its destination at all. Ever. So, the Mod section is currently far behind virtually every other soft synth I use. Didn't anyone try it? Maybe I missed that post.
> 
> I totally agree with someone who earlier pointed out that we need pitch jitter. It's probably my favorite granular parameter and I really miss it here.
> 
> I kind of like the way Novum separates the sample into different layers, but it sort of made a mess out of a theater organ sample I threw in. I couldn't really figure out what the different layers were supposed to be doing. They sounded similar, but were really choppy. I redrew the envelopes, but I wonder why all that choppiness had to occur in the first place. What exactly is the analysis looking for when it separates things and why did a fairly static organ note have to wind up being that choppy after analysis? Of course, I didn't throw a sample into a granulator and expect sample playback quality, but this felt like a lot of work to tame down compared to what I can usually get happening in any other granulator I use.
> 
> This is a great product and I don't want to sound too negative. I love the way I can drag different timbres and envelopes from other presets and mix and match all of them. This is really unique. I also think that as I get more experience with Novum, I'll understand the way it separates samples and be able to take advantage of that feature. Generally, I like the interface and find it easy to get around, although I could imagine a more useful manual or maybe a parameter reference for those of us who like to know what some of these parameters are actually doing. The current manual is more like a quick tutorial. The whole product is certainly beautifully designed and I love the crazy changes I can get from the timbre flower. But, even though I think this is a fabulous approach, I'm still on the fence about whether this really sounds so different from the other granulators I use. When I hear the presets, they sound pretty much like a lot of granulated pads. But, this is "early days" for this product and I won't be surprised if there are lots of interesting things to come. I'll be playing with it more, myself. I really find it intriguing. I just hope that Mod section gets fixed and we get that pitch jitter parameter...


I hope he reads your comment because I had a similar reaction in as far as I was wishing the modulation section had more clarity. I got it on sale at jrrshop today for $107, and I think its certainly worth that for me: I can tell already that its a very stable piece of coding in terms of quantity and quality of granulation. But I don't just want to scroll through presets. I want to create what I hear in my head and to do that I need to know about routing possibilities - they need to exist, and I need to learn by examples. Kilhohearts took awhile with Phase plant, but now its far easier to look and see what is going on with complex routings. And I think phase plant is priced fairly reasonably. This is similarly groundbreaking and needs time for further development and then it will be a creative goldmine. Dystopian effects are good applied at the right moment in a cinematic experience. I wouldn't listen to an album consisting of them. Novum does musically warm and lush things as well. It has loads of possibilities, but the modulation features need to be accessible and expanded upon I think. Just my opinion. (I bought Chop Suey and Abyss one day ago as well - Obviously this is criticism from a fan.)


----------



## c0nsilience

Where Novum shines, and many others don't, is in the simplicity of use. Complexity (i.e., menu diving in hardware; multi-tab/multi-page in software) is relatively easy to achieve. Simplicity is not. Simplicity is incredibly difficult to pull off, mainly because it's counterintuitive even though constraints tend to force creativity.

Peter V. has alluded to incorporating a workflow between Abyss and Novum, which will satisfy many sound design needs, wants, and desires. I cannot speak for him, but it seems that he isn't the type of designer to really knuckle down on a Falcon, HALion, Phaseplant, style of gargantuan UI, which makes me very happy.

Just a different perspective. Also from a fan.


----------



## Bee_Abney

You can modulate nearly every parameter and it is very easy to do and observe visually - if you know the routing. I'm not sure if some people want more modulation options or a matrix section showing the connections.

For me, modulation is less important than automation, so I'm very happy that the vast majority of parameters are automatable. This way I can evolve the sound how I want.

I haven't explored far enough yet, but I think that if a parameter's changes can be recorded as midi data that they should also be modulatable by any external midi modulator. If so - and I'm not at all sure - then all the modulation or generative options anyone could want should be available with the right software. Meanwhile, Novum itself can remain focused and 'simple'.

Does anyone else know more about this stuff? Bitwig power users, for instance?


----------



## Markrs

Not live for another 5 hours but another popular Youtuber trying out Novum


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> If so - and I'm not at all sure - then all the modulation or generative options anyone could want should be available with the right software. Meanwhile, Novum itself can remain focused and 'simple'.
> 
> Does anyone else know more about this stuff? Bitwig power users, for instance?


Yeah DAW modulators in Bitwig, Live, etc, can modulate any parameter that is "automatable" in a third party plugin.

There's an important point to mention though.

In 99.99% of cases, when you write automation (or use DAW modulation) these are applied to the plugin instance itself, right? This may seem obvious, but where I'm getting at is that these are not applied per voice or note unlike LFOs, envelopes, etc, in the instruments themselves which are per voice.

I say 99.99% instead of 100% because in Bitwig, when using the Bitwig instruments, you can indeed use DAW modulation per voice. Or when using the CLAP plugin format.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> Yeah DAW modulators in Bitwig, Live, etc, can modulate any parameter that is "automatable" in a third party plugin.
> 
> There's an important point to mention though.
> 
> In 99.99% of cases, when you write automation (or use DAW modulation) these are applied to the plugin instance itself, right? This may seem obvious, but where I'm getting at is that these are not applied per voice or note unlike LFOs, envelopes, etc, in the instruments themselves which are per voice.
> 
> I say 99.99% instead of 100% because in Bitwig, when using the Bitwig instruments, you can indeed use DAW modulation per voice. Or when using the CLAP plugin format.


Ah, right. That could be an issue then.


----------



## tressie5

Now, I'm perplexed. Addled, even. @Bee_Abney wrote, and I quote, "...modulation is less important than automation..." And therein lies the rub. To wit: If I assign pan levels to an LFO where I can automate the strength, rate and distance of a sweep, isn't this the same as modulating that pan control?


----------



## Bee_Abney

tressie5 said:


> Now, I'm perplexed. Addled, even. @Bee_Abney wrote, and I quote, "...modulation is less important than automation..." And therein lies the rub. To wit: If I assign pan levels to an LFO where I can automate the strength, rate and distance of a sweep, isn't this the same as modulating that pan control?


Sorry, I meant that automation is more important to me me than the range and kind of modulating sources (e.g. LFOs) that aren't me adjusting the parameters by my own programming or performance.

The timbre/resonance flower can't, I think, be changed with those changes recorded as anything other than audio. I think pretty much everything else can be.

While LFOs, envelope, etc. are all important; to me, personally, it matters more what changes can be live recorded or programmed.


----------



## scoplunk

Automation is great, but it can't be written into a preset. Also, if I'm working with orchestral instruments and I'm constantly in MIDI CC land, then I'd prefer to stay there for as much of my work as possible, only to avoid having to jump around Logic between Track and Region automation (although, this may be peculiar to the way Logic organizes automation and doesn't apply in other DAWs). I always wind up using automation to mix and make moves that I can't make other ways, but the less I have to guess about what is actually changing parameters on a plug-in, the better. It's possible I'm just simple minded in this way, though...

My initial criticism of Novum's modulation system could be fixed very simply. First, there's a bug with the key tracking in that it never shows the destinations. That's obviously easily repaired. In the other modulation cases, if I could click on a destination and immediately go to that parameter, I would be fine. As it stands now, there's no way to change the amount of modulation to a particular destination without actually selecting that destination. If I can't get there quickly, or even worse, am faced with a list that has the same name twice but refers to different parameters (Wet, for instance - but one of them refers to the reverb effect and the other one to the shimmer effect), how am I supposed to make the modulation amount change that I'm trying to make? Why do I have to become a detective just to be able to change a modulation amount? But, this also can't be difficult to fix. Peter is a great developer. I'm sure he'll come up with a solution to this problem. But, it IS a problem at the moment, at least from my POV.


----------



## tressie5

Okay. I think I'm understanding what Bee is referring to. "Automation" as in parameters in a synth automated by the DAW itself and not by the LFO's/EG's in a synth.


----------



## jesussaddle

c0nsilience said:


> Where Novum shines, and many others don't, is in the simplicity of use. Complexity (i.e., menu diving in hardware; multi-tab/multi-page in software) is relatively easy to achieve. Simplicity is not. Simplicity is incredibly difficult to pull off, mainly because it's counterintuitive even though constraints tend to force creativity.
> 
> Peter V. has alluded to incorporating a workflow between Abyss and Novum, which will satisfy many sound design needs, wants, and desires. I cannot speak for him, but it seems that he isn't the type of designer to really knuckle down on a Falcon, HALion, Phaseplant, style of gargantuan UI, which makes me very happy.
> 
> Just a different perspective. Also from a fan.


Brings up for me the fact that you can import User audio into Novum. I don't think you can import audio and have it divide it - instead it seems you are to import your samples into each layer of the Novum preset as you so choose. So my thought is that Abyss doesn't seem to mention "import" in its manual - therefore will he add it, or is the intended direction to move from Abyss to Novum? I suppose I'm more geared towards how to make something musically responsive or musically fitting. I do sincerely want to learn how to achieve these, and understand what the developer envisions for it (often its a matter of not understanding the workflow intended due to a visual impairment).

[As evidence of my visual impairment - Arctic Fox's video demonstrated that you in Can add a wave file directly to the main interface, as opposed to only being able to use the individual channel layers. That's actually really good news I think. And it IS in the manual but I didn't see it - it reads "
Drop any audio file on the WAVE DISPLAY to decompose the audio
into 6 layers."].



Arctic Fox hit the nail on the head for me with his hope for adding a wet/dry control for each layer. I subscribed to his channel.


----------



## jesussaddle

Fleer said:


> I believe JRRshop still have Novum at $107. (Yes, I checked, they do.)


Appreciate that. Its where I ended up purchasing. I only used them once before. I love these Plugin (or as cubase says Plug-in) sale expeditions you know!


----------



## sostenuto

Have asked several times about intent of taking NOVUM results to ABYSS. No help so far, and still hoping to learn /understand why this is desirable. No need for tedious detail, just need more info prior to adding ABYSS at some point.


----------



## jesussaddle

sostenuto said:


> Have asked several times about intent of taking NOVUM results to ABYSS. No help so far, and still hoping to learn /understand why this is desirable. No need for tedious detail, just need more info prior to adding ABYSS at some point.


Abyss wave files can also be dragged into Novum. My bad if I added confusion in what I said earlier.


----------



## sostenuto

jesussaddle said:


> Abyss wave files can also be dragged into Novum. My bad if I added confusion in what I said earlier.


Not at all _ gaining from your recent posts. Was not not aware of the bidirectional functionality. 
Likely to take advantage of NOVUM Intro pricing. Too long sitting at poolside (with granular) _ time to dive in.


----------



## Nico5

scoplunk said:


> But, it IS a problem at the moment, at least from my POV.


From my perspective, those problems are more mole hill sized than mountain sized and not deserving of the drama your initial post injected in this thread. 

Thankfully you've tempered and balanced your perspective quite significantly since then - albeit maybe a bit too gradual?

Because it almost seems like your initial rant - which arguably slammed the people who expressed their love for NOVUM even more than the instrument itself - is still affecting your ability to solicit agreement over some of your otherwise rightful observations. Maybe not all that surprising, since you effectively blamed enthusiastic prior posters expressing their love of NOVUM for having wasted your money - even when there was (and still is) a generous free trial period available.


*So allow me to agree with you *on the wish for the labeling shortcomings in the modulation area to be fixed in an upcoming update. I think there are also a couple of minor inconsistencies in the manual compared to the current version.

But compared to a lot of recent software - frequently from some of the biggest players in the business - NOVUM's 1.0 release was relatively complete and stable - and one of the better performing granular engines already.

So on balance, NOVUM seems one of the best synth releases I've seen in a while and therefore happily purchased and praised.

Can I achieve some sonically similar results with other synths? - Sure. But that has been the case with the overwhelming majority of synths for how many years decades already? When the market is this mature and crowded already, it's increasingly impossible to have "revolutionary" ideas of the same magnitude as the first iterations of subtractive, PCM, FM, wavetable, granular, etc. In many cases even those ended up getting to overlapping sonic textures.

And that's not even mentioning that a lot of synths lived off their increasingly amazing digital FX algorithms, more so than pure synthesis innovation. My Virus Ti was so amazing in its day - in good part - because of it's FX stack. Even my Juno 60 was already greatly assisted by it's Chorus FX, compared to most synths of the day (including the DX7) not having any FX.

Does NOVUM present a relatively novel approach to a synthesizer? - It sure does.
Is it inviting to tweak without being a synth design expert? - It sure is.
Does it allow me to (even randomly) fiddle with some parameters and messing around with samples to come up with something that feels like "I made that sound"? - Yes indeed!

And a key question for me:

Do many of its presets sound really good and interesting with the entire FX chain turned off? Oh yes indeed! There's quite a few patches I even prefer that way, but that's not a weakness of the synth - it's a strength and maybe a testament to the temptation to use the FX stack just because it's there and easy to use.
I've custom programmed some of my own synth sounds ever since buying my first, a Jupiter-4 when it first came out way too long ago. I've dabbled in most of the different forms of synthesis over the decades since then. And like with most things, I eventually get bored - and am very grateful when someone presents me with some interesting new ways to approach making or tweaking synth patches. Those are synths I like and buy (if they're affordable). NOVUM is one of those synths that keeps me interested in synths for a little while longer.


----------



## Nico5

Bee_Abney said:


> For me, modulation is less important than automation, so I'm very happy that the vast majority of parameters are automatable. This way I can evolve the sound how I want.
> 
> I haven't explored far enough yet, but I think that if a parameter's changes can be recorded as midi data that they should also be modulatable by any external midi modulator. If so - and I'm not at all sure - then all the modulation or generative options anyone could want should be available with the right software. Meanwhile, Novum itself can remain focused and 'simple'.
> 
> Does anyone else know more about this stuff? Bitwig power users, for instance?


There's tons of VST automation parameters *including at individual layer levels *in NOVUM. 

A small excerpt that could fit into a single screen capture (using Cubase not Bitwig  ):


----------



## jesussaddle

Nico5 said:


> From my perspective, those problems are more mole hill sized than mountain sized and not deserving of the drama your initial post injected in this thread.
> 
> Thankfully you've tempered and balanced your perspective quite significantly since then - albeit maybe a bit too gradual?
> 
> Because it almost seems like your initial rant - which arguably slammed the people who expressed their love for NOVUM even more than the instrument itself - is still affecting your ability to solicit agreement over some of your otherwise rightful observations. Maybe not all that surprising, since you effectively blamed enthusiastic prior posters expressing their love of NOVUM for having wasted your money - even when there was (and still is) a generous free trial period available.
> 
> 
> *So allow me to agree with you *on the wish for the labeling shortcomings in the modulation area to be fixed in an upcoming update. I think there are also a couple of minor inconsistencies in the manual compared to the current version.
> 
> But compared to a lot of recent software - frequently from some of the biggest players in the business - NOVUM's 1.0 release was relatively complete and stable - and one of the better performing granular engines already.
> 
> So on balance, NOVUM seems one of the best synth releases I've seen in a while and therefore happily purchased and praised.
> 
> Can I achieve some sonically similar results with other synths? - Sure. But that has been the case with the overwhelming majority of synths for how many years decades already? When the market is this mature and crowded already, it's increasingly impossible to have "revolutionary" ideas of the same magnitude as the first iterations of subtractive, PCM, FM, wavetable, granular, etc. In many cases even those ended up getting to overlapping sonic textures.
> 
> And that's not even mentioning that a lot of synths lived off their increasingly amazing digital FX algorithms, more so than pure synthesis innovation. My Virus Ti was so amazing in its day - in good part - because of it's FX stack. Even my Juno 60 was already greatly assisted by it's Chorus FX, compared to most synths of the day (including the DX7) not having any FX.
> 
> Does NOVUM present a relatively novel approach to a synthesizer? - It sure does.
> Is it inviting to tweak without being a synth design expert? - It sure is.
> Does it allow me to (even randomly) fiddle with some parameters and messing around with samples to come up with something that feels like "I made that sound"? - Yes indeed!
> 
> And a key question for me:
> 
> Do many of its presets sound really good and interesting with the entire FX chain turned off? Oh yes indeed! There's quite a few patches I even prefer that way, but that's not a weakness of the synth - it's a strength and maybe a testament to the temptation to use the FX stack just because it's there and easy to use.
> I've custom programmed some of my own synth sounds ever since buying my first, a Jupiter-4 when it first came out way too long ago. I've dabbled in most of the different forms of synthesis over the decades since then. And like with most things, I eventually get bored - and am very grateful when someone presents me with some interesting new ways to approach making or tweaking synth patches. Those are synths I like and buy (if they're affordable). NOVUM is one of those synths that keeps me interested in synths for a little while longer.


I agree completely, its rare when a synth can both sound great with no fx and be an advance over what's come before. Another synth that I think had that capability was Viper by Adam Szabo (another individual dev who puts their heart and soul into their work). It had something of the Reveal Sound Spire thing going on, just slightly different and such a caring job of reproducing the Virus synth. Check out the KVR reviews. To give another example, there is a synth called Cycle synth, by a Canadian (Amaranth Audio's Gavin), who hasn't been able to update his work, but it was so revolutionary (real time 3D audio editing) that still to this day I have no regrets after purchasing it. Imagine doing all that work by yourself, executing it, and getting results that are still cutting edge. (For certain there are 'betrayed' expectations, like with Geiss that was abandoned by Fxpansion - and I feel for those who didn't get what they hoped for. But if the vast majority are satisfied that counts) So one could argue that its all pretty much been done before, or that there's nothing that new, and say this with relative confidence all day. Because its all relative. But we know what we like, and these new synths essentially rock - money well spent for me!


----------



## Alchemedia

Bee_Abney said:


> You can modulate nearly every parameter and it is very easy to do and observe visually - if you know the routing. I'm not sure if some people want more modulation options or a matrix section showing the connections.
> 
> *For me, modulation is less important than automation*, so I'm very happy that the vast majority of parameters are automatable. This way I can evolve the sound how I want.
> 
> I haven't explored far enough yet, but I think that if a parameter's changes can be recorded as midi data that they should also be modulatable by any external midi modulator. If so - and I'm not at all sure - then all the modulation or generative options anyone could want should be available with the right software. Meanwhile, Novum itself can remain focused and 'simple'.
> 
> Does anyone else know more about this stuff? Bitwig power users, for instance?


In that case you should definitely avoid Eurorack and Bitwig.


----------



## tressie5

I just had a quick look at Amaranth's Cycle since I'd never heard of it. Wow! It's like making a left turn into Maya, 3DS Max or some other CAD program. Programs with unfamiliar UI can be intimidating - Hyperion, Waverazor, Spacecraft - all over at Tracktion. Hmm. I'm beginning to smell a trend here.


----------



## scoplunk

Nico5 said:


> From my perspective, those problems are more mole hill sized than mountain sized and not deserving of the drama your initial post injected in this thread.


Yes. That's your perspective. I don't agree that the problem I'm talking about is mole hill sized. For me, it's bigger than that. Of course, if it isn't in that category for you, I respect that, but that doesn't mean that I'm being dramatic.



Nico5 said:


> Thankfully you've tempered and balanced your perspective quite significantly since then - albeit maybe a bit too gradual?


Again - according to you. You love Novum and think it's wonderful. That's great! But, that doesn't mean that those of us who don't agree with you have to balance our perspective to agree with you at all, or be told that if we do agree with you, we did it too gradually. The implication is that you are right and I am wrong and it's taking me too long to figure that out. But at least it's good to know that you think I'm coming along!



Nico5 said:


> Maybe not all that surprising, since you effectively blamed enthusiastic prior posters expressing their love of NOVUM for having wasted your money - even when there was (and still is) a generous free trial period available.


I guess you missed the part where I said that I didn't buy it and also totally praised Peter for offering such a generous trial period and urged other people to try it for themselves. I only expressed surprise that I found some obvious problems because I had primarily seen gushing praise. I stand by my original point that it appears that a lot of people on the forum jump up and down for the newest plug in and don't seem to dive very deeply below the preset surface. That's fine. I'm not much of a preset guy, so when I start working on my own sounds, I sometimes run into problems or design decisions that don't work for me and am surprised that nobody has mentioned them before. But, point taken. I could have phrased that a little better.



Nico5 said:


> *So allow me to agree with you *on the wish for the labeling shortcomings in the modulation area to be fixed in an upcoming update. I think there are also a couple of minor inconsistencies in the manual compared to the current version.


Thank you!



Nico5 said:


> Does NOVUM present a relatively novel approach to a synthesizer? - It sure does.


This is the part that I'm not sure about yet. Before you get all excited, I mean exactly what I say. I think there's absolutely some truth to what you're saying. But, I wasn't able on my admittedly shorter than I'd like time with it to get a result from that novel approach that I thought was significantly different from the other granular synths I've used. They're all novel in their own way, so the question for me is: is Novum so novel that I need to get yet another granular synth? I'm not sure. It's certainly not a slam dunk Yes for me. For starters, I still don't understand what the separation algorithm is doing. I wish I understood it better or could defeat it if I don't like the result. Sometimes I like the result, other times, I don't like it, but I have no control over it. This may be something I simply need to work with more in order to really get it. But, I'm trying to work on actual music at the moment and I don't want to get distracted by another new toy unless it proves its worth to me right out of the gate. My initial opinion isn't meant to be a negative reflection on the quality of this product. It just means I failed to fully connect in the amount of time I allowed myself to check Novum out and I reported the reasons I felt that way. That's all. It's just one guy's first impression. Clearly, I'm a minority opinion on this thread, but that's OK. On other threads, I'm one of the big fans. So it goes.

If Novum works for you, then that's perfect. Some products just jump out as instant purchases for some people and don't work for others. That's why we have so many versions of these things. I'm glad you like it. As I've said before, I love Peter's attitude and I intend to go back and look at some of his other inventions. The more support developers like Peter get, the better!


----------



## tressie5

To me Novum is fine the way it is. Any other additions would be merely superfluous. It does quite a few things and does them all well, from mangling waves in very creative ways to its modulation flexibility and its ability to turn atonal non-musical sounds into musical sounds, and in standard tuning to boot. If HG Fortune was alive I think he'd agree with me. (Yeah, I'm an HG Fortune fanboy as of late).


----------



## Alchemedia

tressie5 said:


> I just had a quick look at Amaranth's Cycle since I'd never heard of it. Wow! It's like making a left turn into Maya, 3DS Max or some other CAD program.


Takes me back to my UCLA days running 3D Studio Max on DOS circa "Lawnmower Man", the groundbreaking animation for which was done with 3DS and all the rage at SIGGRAPH that year ('92).


----------



## Nico5

scoplunk said:


> I guess you missed the part where I said that I didn't buy it


My apologies - I clearly misunderstood your original post on that fact.


----------



## Bee_Abney

scoplunk said:


> Automation is great, but it can't be written into a preset. Also, if I'm working with orchestral instruments and I'm constantly in MIDI CC land, then I'd prefer to stay there for as much of my work as possible, only to avoid having to jump around Logic between Track and Region automation (although, this may be peculiar to the way Logic organizes automation and doesn't apply in other DAWs). I always wind up using automation to mix and make moves that I can't make other ways, but the less I have to guess about what is actually changing parameters on a plug-in, the better. It's possible I'm just simple minded in this way, though...
> 
> My initial criticism of Novum's modulation system could be fixed very simply. First, there's a bug with the key tracking in that it never shows the destinations. That's obviously easily repaired. In the other modulation cases, if I could click on a destination and immediately go to that parameter, I would be fine. As it stands now, there's no way to change the amount of modulation to a particular destination without actually selecting that destination. If I can't get there quickly, or even worse, am faced with a list that has the same name twice but refers to different parameters (Wet, for instance - but one of them refers to the reverb effect and the other one to the shimmer effect), how am I supposed to make the modulation amount change that I'm trying to make? Why do I have to become a detective just to be able to change a modulation amount? But, this also can't be difficult to fix. Peter is a great developer. I'm sure he'll come up with a solution to this problem. But, it IS a problem at the moment, at least from my POV.


Yes. In one sense, all very minor issues (it doesn't stop you getting the sounds) but in practical, workflow terms, these things have a big impact.

As for getting excited about new combinations of synthesis rather than writing serious reviews in a chat thread - I plan to continue! And I also welcome other contributions of other kinds.


----------



## c0nsilience

"You can't make everyone happy all the time and last night they were all at my show." - Mitch Hedberg (RIP)


----------



## scoplunk

Great quote! I can relate. I've definitely met that audience!


----------



## Bee_Abney

By the way, I was just using Novum. Just to make sure anyone reading the discussion about modulation realises: the Mod tab reveals the destinations for all of the different modulators. Just click onto the Mod tab, then click through the modulators in the column on the right, and all of the destinations will be revealed. What that doesn't show is how much they are being modulated. For that you need to go to the parameter itself and watch its display.


----------



## SupremeFist

Bee_Abney said:


> By the way, I was just using Novum. Just to make sure anyone reading the discussion about modulation realises: the Mod tab reveals the destinations for all of the different modulators. Just click onto the Mod tab, then click through the modulators in the column on the right, and all of the destinations will be revealed. What that doesn't show is how much they are being modulated. For that you need to go to the parameter itself and watch its display.


I haven't bought Novum yet but from your description it seems like it would be an easy (and very useful!) update to reveal all destinations and amounts immediately on switching to the mod tab without any further clicking being required.


----------



## Bee_Abney

SupremeFist said:


> I haven't bought Novum yet but from your description it seems like it would be an easy (and very useful!) update to reveal all destinations and amounts immediately on switching to the mod tab without any further clicking being required.


I agree. One (sub-) display covering all of it would be great - with the option of clicking through to specific modulation sources for making adjustments. This would be a great 'cosmetic' but significant improvement.


----------



## scoplunk

My idea was to be able to click through to the actual parameter by simply clicking on the destination in the relevant source page. But, if I understand what SupremeFist is saying, that might be an even better idea. What if there was a slider or knob for every destination on the mod source page? Then, there would be no need to click through at all and the amount of modulation could be adjusted for every destination on the modulation page itself. It would make a sort of one stop shop for adjusting any/all the destinations on the same page as the currently displayed source modulator. I like that idea!


----------



## Russell Anderson

Modulation adjustment from the mod page/tab/section is good. It's taking a page out of Phase Plant's book.

Alright, that particular feature wasn't first introduced in Phase Plant, but... I wish every synthesizer would take almost every design page out of Phase Plant's book. Phase Plant is how you lay out a synthesizer after 2020 IMO. That is the way it is done. Sound and feature-wise it's up to the developer. But Layout By Kilohearts™.


----------



## Markrs




----------



## zzz00m

Novum is no longer on sale at Tracktion.com, the JULYFOURTH coupon expired yesterday. Full MSRP now $179.00.

But JRRshop is still offering Novum for $107.40, no coupon required.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Sampleconstruct

Playing with a custom split sound in Novum, split function is achieved via dedicated key follow modulators assigned to each layer's volume, the two original samples were dropped directly into the layers. As these KF modulators can be edited so precisely (per note actually) one could use up to six split sounds in a single patch.


----------



## Sampleconstruct

Six instances of Novum using custom patches, some volume automation in Logic and a limiter on the master output.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Sampleconstruct said:


> Six instances of Novum using custom patches, some volume automation in Logic and a limiter on the master output.



That's really evocative. I felt like I was travelling in a Jeep across an unfamiliar landscape at dawn, chasing the horizon and the unknown.


----------



## Sampleconstruct

Bee_Abney said:


> That's really evocative. I felt like I was travelling in a Jeep across an unfamiliar landscape at dawn, chasing the horizon and the unknown.


That's a really good visual/atmospherical setting for this track, thank you.


----------



## Dirtgrain

Bee_Abney said:


> That's really evocative. I felt like I was travelling in a Jeep across an unfamiliar landscape at dawn, chasing the horizon and the unknown.


Now, do it as a proper haiku.


----------



## doctoremmet

Here is my haiku:

“Simon Stockhausen
-Klang und Malerei Genie-
erhebt meinen Geist”


----------



## kgdrum

Dirtgrain said:


> Now, do it as a proper haiku.




@Dirtgrain 

You might be aiming the bar too high for Beetrice maybe she can try redoing this as a limerick?


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> @Dirtgrain
> 
> You might be aiming the bar to high for Beetrice maybe she can try redoing this as a limerick?


Oi! How dare you. I can't do limericks either!


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Oi! How dare you. I can't do limericks either!


.......... well _ at least three phrases not mandatory ! 🎎

btw _ is Novum offered from legitimate dealers with any current discount ? 
Ready to add, yet no time crunch.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Oi! How dare you. I can't do limericks either!




I guess you can say I’m scrubbing away the “English” facade, as sophisticated as you are,apparently. Truth be told where are you from New Jersey?


----------



## D Halgren

Sampleconstruct said:


> Six instances of Novum using custom patches, some volume automation in Logic and a limiter on the master output.



Fantastic!


----------



## sostenuto

🦻🏻 .........someone shading Great Swamp National Wildlife Refuge native residents ??? 🙈


----------



## kgdrum

sostenuto said:


> 🦻🏻 .........someone shading Great Swamp National Wildlife Refuge native residents ??? 🙈




No our certain someone has been searching landfills for Jimmy Hoffa,hence the 🚿 obsession. The closest Agnes gets to the Great Swamp National Wildlife Refuge is a auto salvage yard next to the Meadowlands.


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> .......... well _ at least three phrases not mandatory ! 🎎
> 
> btw _ is Novum offered from legitimate dealers with any current discount ?
> Ready to add, yet no time crunch.


I think after the intro price it could be a while before the first sale. Maybe it will go back to intro price in November.


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> I guess you can say I’m scrubbing away the “English” facade, as sophisticated as you are,apparently. Truth be told where are you from New Jersey?


Nowhere so posh!


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Nowhere so posh!




Well since it’s down to Newark,Camden or the Meadowlands we’re not really talking “posh”.


----------



## Sampleconstruct

doctoremmet said:


> Here is my haiku:
> 
> “Simon Stockhausen
> -Klang und Malerei Genie-
> erhebt meinen Geist”


So poetical, thank you 😊 🙏


----------



## Marcus Millfield

I really don't gel.with soft synths at all, mostly because all the gazillion options and dazzling UI flashy thingies confuse me and turn me off. I took the last couple of months to try all the big ones (all U-He, NI, Pigments, Dune, Vital, Falcon etc) but with Abyss I finally have a software synth that I actually LIKE to use AND get the sound quicky in the ballpark of what I'm after. It does take a moment getting used to, but after an hour or 2 reading the manual and fiddling with it I was so impressed I bought it full price. Marvelous instrument and especially effective UI design for people like me (apparently).

Nothing than love for the creator 🙏🏻 Genius concept, really marvelous.


----------



## HotRodders

Just wanted to share my thoughts here and I hope some members find it helpful? I bought Novum yesterday and I’ve had an hour or two easing into it and, man oh man, the possibilities are deep and very rewarding, while the UI is a breeze! Agreed, some additional info to view all modulations at a glance and a few other clues in the UI for non-homogenised layer values could help. However, Peter V, you are a genius imho, it’s been a long time since I’ve enjoyed going down the sound design rabbit-hole so much!


----------



## doctoremmet

I’m definitely pre-ordering Simon’s presets some time later this week, to see what he’s come up with @Sampleconstruct 

You are right, this is one of the coolest instruments of 2022 for me so far.


----------



## Bee_Abney

HotRodders said:


> Just wanted to share my thoughts here and I hope some members find it helpful? I bought Novum yesterday and I’ve had an hour or two easing into it and, man oh man, the possibilities are deep and very rewarding, while the UI is a breeze! Agreed, some additional info to view all modulations at a glance and a few other clues in the UI for non-homogenised layer values could help. However, Peter V, you are a genius imho, it’s been a long time since I’ve enjoyed going down the sound design rabbit-hole so much!


I adore it. Real innovation, really musical, and designed for ease of use by those of us who lack PeterV's dedication to audio science and mathematics!


----------



## Pier

I missed the intro sale as I was too busy with other stuff... hopefully there will be another one soon!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> I missed the intro sale as I was too busy with other stuff... hopefully there will be another one soon!


Tracktion seem to have quite a few sales, even on newer products; and I think a return to intro price for Black Friday is likely.


----------



## Marcus Millfield

Pier said:


> I missed the intro sale as I was too busy with other stuff... hopefully there will be another one soon!



You can still get it here on sale: https://www.jrrshop.com/tracktion-novum


----------



## Pier

Marcus Millfield said:


> You can still get it here on sale: https://www.jrrshop.com/tracktion-novum


Thanks!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> Thanks!


Or, you can listen to someone who knows something useful!


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Or, you can listen to someone who knows something useful!


Not bad now, but JRRShop also had their own additional knock-down _ right ? 
Like to hold for repeat ! 🤌🏻


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Not bad now, but JRRShop also had their own additional knock-down _ right ?
> Like to hold for repeat ! 🤌🏻


Well, the 'GROUP' code might work too.

But the good thing with Tracktion is that while they don't have constant sales, and full price is a reasonable price; they do have sales at different levels throughout the year.


----------



## sostenuto

Paralyzed 'til' IK M _ T-RackS Group Buy closes, later today. 
For Novum ~~$$ _ get 43 goodie(s) / meh(s) / baddie(s). 🤷🏻

*** NO _ GROUP or FORUM worked earlier _ now kaput !


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Paralyzed 'til' IK M _ T-RackS Group Buy closes, later today.
> For Novum ~~$$ _ get 43 goodie(s) / meh(s) / baddie(s). 🤷🏻
> 
> *** NO _ GROUP or FORUM worked earlier _ now kaput !


The T-RackS plugins are pretty great. If you are keen to expand your resources for mixing an mastering and don't have many of these already, go for it! I bought in to the last group buy, so I'm sitting this one out. Especially as I'm currently having trouble with IK Multimedia's Amplitube - I just can't get it work, and it's my main resource for amps and cabinets.

I've not had any trouble with T-RackS, though; so don't worry about it. It's more of an emotional thing: I can't get something by them to work and so I'm a bit miffed.


----------



## doctoremmet

@venustheory Congratulations on your brilliant work with Spitfire LABS Foghorn. Loved watching your video.



Cool to see ABYSS and NOVUM apparently played a small role in the creation of your sample!


----------



## venustheory

doctoremmet said:


> @venustheory Congratulations on your brilliant work with Spitfire LABS Foghorn. Loved watching your video.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool to see ABYSS and NOVUM apparently played a small role in the creation of your sample!



Thanks! Was really excited to be involved in that project. Glad the video was fun to watch as well, was afraid it'd be a bit boring as the process of doing this stuff is pretty bland haha. 

Abyss and Novum are hard to put down - great synths for adding a bit of flavor and layers to stuff!


----------



## doctoremmet

venustheory said:


> Thanks! Was really excited to be involved in that project. Glad the video was fun to watch as well, was afraid it'd be a bit boring as the process of doing this stuff is pretty bland haha.
> 
> Abyss and Novum are hard to put down - great synths for adding a bit of flavor and layers to stuff!


On the contrary, I was extremely pleased to see you so happy about the process and your closing remarks were also spot-on and inspiring, and the overall consistently high quality of the production values of all your videos was present as well, which makes for a very positive viewer experience. That NAMM visit worked out very well for you I think. A cool networking experience indeed.


----------



## scoplunk

venustheory said:


> Thanks! Was really excited to be involved in that project. Glad the video was fun to watch as well, was afraid it'd be a bit boring as the process of doing this stuff is pretty bland haha.


Fabulous video, great story, wonderful sounds. Agreed that sound design can be pretty tedious, but you did a good job of cutting through the details and showing the parts that matter. I enjoyed everything about this. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience with all of us. 

Now, off to Spitfire to grab that foghorn...


----------



## Bee_Abney

808 Electroware, cunning wee monkeys that they clearly are, seem to be the first to release a third-party soundset for Novum. The influence is sci-fi and horror.

With a full price of £20.28, this is available for the next twenty days at £14.19.



https://www.lootaudio.com/category/presets/808-Electroware/scifi-grain
Obviously, if you haven't already, you'll want to consider pre-ordering the coming Novum soundset from Patchpool first. But, once you've done that...


----------



## Fahl

Been continuing to play around with this and it is truly a fascinating instrument. Loving it more and more the more I learn it! 

One suggestion though for what should be fairly easy to implement I believe:
a setting to limit the number of voices to a preset value like 16, 24, 32 etc. 
I was playing around earlier and played some rapid passages, lots of 16th notes at or above 160bpm and even my M1MAX Macbook caved in due to the fairly long release and started crackling. I could of course increase the buffer but I really need low latency for playing passages like that and prefer to record "live".
This was with only Ableton and Novum running.

@Peter V could this be easily implemented?


----------



## krankyone

RE: the 808 Electroware preset library - Unless I'm missing something, this is the first preset library creator I've ever seen that neglected to list the number of presets in the library anywhere on their website or videos.


----------



## JimDiGritz

Hi all, can anyone help me with stopping NOVUM from infinitely playing?

Once I trigger a NOVUM sample, it plays the sample constantly even when the transport Play has stopped. The only way I can stop the sound it is to press the PANIC button in NOVUM.

This isn't a stuck MIDI note since Reaper shows NO MIDI activity in the track, rather it's NOVUM itself.

I'm using Reaper and haven't had this issue with any other plugin.


----------



## doctoremmet

I pre-ordered Simon Stockhausen’s NOVUM soundset First Light and last week I was glad to receive an email with a download link to the first set of patches.

What can I say? It’s best summarized by: every patch feels like an entire album’s worth of sound worlds.

Here’s a patch he just dropped a new demo for:



I highly recommend this set.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Has anyone else noticed that, just when you think you've found something new and amazing that sounds incredible, that if you sample it and drop the sample into Novum, that it gets very much better?


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## JimDiGritz

muziksculp said:


>



Sounds very nice, but $50... ooff. Hard no from me.


----------



## muziksculp

JimDiGritz said:


> Sounds very nice, but $50... ooff. Hard no from me.


I agree. a bit steep pricing for an expansion.


----------



## Bee_Abney

@Databroth, you've created real wonders here!


----------



## kgdrum

@JimDiGritz 
@muziksculp 

fwiw the current sale knocks 40% off the listed price of the sound-packs
.


----------



## JimDiGritz

kgdrum said:


> @JimDiGritz
> @muziksculp
> 
> fwiw the current sale knocks 40% off the listed price of the sound-packs
> .


Thanks for the reminder - *LABOR2022 - 40% Discount*


----------



## Databroth

Bee_Abney said:


> @Databroth, you've created real wonders here!


thank you, I'm glad this finally made it out, had a blast making these presets


----------



## sostenuto

Hate pushing pesos _ but maybe focus on Novum + adding expansions _ rather than more fine synths ( Biotek 2, Abyss ) with unknown usage plans. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 
Lifeforms for sure _ pre-order First Light _ seems like a plan.


----------



## Alchemedia

sostenuto said:


> Hate pushing pesos _ but maybe focus on Novum + adding expansions _ rather than more fine synths ( Biotek 2, Abyss ) with unknown usage plans. 🤷🏻‍♂️
> Lifeforms for sure _ pre-order First Light _ seems like a plan.



Not to discount the stellar work by Simon & DB, however, if there was ever a synth that doesn't require 3rd party soundsets it's Novum.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Alchemedia said:


> Not to discount the stellar work by Simon & DB, however, if there was ever a synth that doesn't require 3rd party soundsets it's Novum.


But it's like Sweeney Todd: the difference between a good shave and a really good shave!


----------



## Alchemedia

Bee_Abney said:


> But it's like Sweeney Todd: the difference between a good shave and a really good shave!



"They say that dreams are growing wild just this side of Burma-Shave."


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> But it's like Sweeney Todd: the difference between a good shave and a really good shave!




Sweet Bee- 
The thought of you eagerly commandeering a straight edge razor is another reason to grow a very very long beard and wear turtleneck sweaters…………….😱


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Sweet Bee-
> The thought of you eagerly commandeering a straight edge razor is another reason to grow a very very long beard and wear turtleneck sweaters…………….😱


Blades fascinate me. Like a remote extension of teeth outside of my mouth.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Blades fascinate me. Like a remote extension of teeth outside of my mouth.



Saturday nights into Sunday mornings must be exhilarating for you as you’re figuring out some of the creative possibilities of kitchen knives,straight edge razors, repurposed chemicals & solvents! It must make the morning services so much more enjoyable!
🤘


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Blades fascinate me. Like a remote extension of teeth outside of my mouth.


OMG !!! So glad nuns only had rulers for whacking knuckles !!! ⚔️ 🤪


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> OMG !!! So glad nuns only had rulers for whacking knuckles !!! ⚔️ 🤪


I'm sure the trauma is still severe enough!


----------



## sostenuto

Alchemedia said:


> Not to discount the stellar work by Simon & DB, however, if there was ever a synth that doesn't require 3rd party soundsets it's Novum.


Some enjoy demeaning certain disabilities , while extoling their bestowed talents. 😢 😿
Will continue with available crutches, always hoping for more. 💸

{{ 😜 }}


----------



## macmac

sostenuto said:


> OMG !!! So glad nuns only had rulers for whacking knuckles !!! ⚔️ 🤪


I must have missed it along the way but what is all this nun talk regarding Bee? Enlighten me s'il vous plaît.


----------



## sostenuto

macmac said:


> I must have missed it along the way but what is all this nun talk regarding Bee? Enlighten me s'il vous plaît.


....... _wud luv to _ but mods already closing like FBI @ Mar-a-Lago !  🚨 👮🏻_


----------



## Fahl

Just purchased Novum as my demo was about to run out. Can't live without this now, it's become a corner stone for everything. So happy to have such a wonderful instrument!


----------



## sostenuto

Fahl said:


> Just purchased Novum as my demo was about to run out. Can't live without this now, it's become a corner stone for everything. So happy to have such a wonderful instrument!


Tending strongly, yet far different choice _ Generate ( _PB @ $74._ )_ delaying final decision.
BLEAK expansion raises deal to ~ $120.

Novum _ for sure _ add Lifeforms expansion at similar cost. Flipping coin does not help ! _🪙_


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Tending strongly, yet far different choice _ Generate ( _PB @ $74._ )_ delaying final decision.
> BLEAK expansion raises deal to ~ $120.
> 
> Novum _ for sure _ add Lifeforms expansion at similar cost. Flipping coin does not help ! _🪙_


You know the only answer to your conundrum.


----------



## Bee_Abney

macmac said:


> I must have missed it along the way but what is all this nun talk regarding Bee? Enlighten me s'il vous plaît.


There are worse things than not knowing.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> There are worse things than not knowing.




nunsense


----------



## macmac

Bee_Abney said:


> There are worse things than not knowing.


Hmmmm must be a real scandal of sorts then.


----------



## Alchemedia

Bee_Abney said:


> There are worse things than not knowing.



"But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know." How do it know?


----------



## sostenuto

Novum Demo/Trial. Weak chops to sort thru many synth controls. Info so far _ suggests major strength lies in dragging in Samples. If this is naively incorrect, then even further at odds with Novum as useful tool versus attractive options. Plz do not fail to note personal awareness of strong endorsements since Intro ! 'Quality' Presets are attractive tools, yet more are desired. 
Continue to baffle over reasons to continue adding both Abyss + Novum ??? 
Cuz some do ......


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Novum Demo/Trial. Weak chops to sort thru many synth controls. Info so far _ suggests major strength lies in dragging in Samples. If this is naively incorrect, then even further at odds with Novum as useful tool versus attractive options. Plz do not fail to note personal awareness of strong endorsements since Intro ! 'Quality' Presets are attractive tools, yet more are desired.
> Continue to baffle over reasons to continue adding both Abyss + Novum ???
> Cuz some do ......


I believe Novum is seen as being a good source for new material to use in Abyss. One thing Novum is very good at is pads, after all.

What Novum does with samples is very interesting and, in detail, unique. It divides samples into layers via a complex algorithm which examines them not just for pitch and dynamic, but for their character or texture. You can also replace any layer with a completely new sample.

You can re-draw the envelope for each layer or the whole. And Syntify enables you to add frequencies through some form of synthesis or re-synthesis of the layer/sample. Then, you have the tonal flower, which, offers a range of variations of tone, including moving from more natural (like the original sample) to more resynthesised.

Plus, more traditional granular processing. Plus other standard elements such as filters, effects and modulation.

In the factory presets and any that you might buy, all of this will have been used to create very complex but organic sounds. It is also incredibly easy to use it to find new possibilities in any samples you might have.


----------



## sostenuto

So appreciate detailed, refined help when sorting Novum addition. Abyss issue is minor, and only raised as not current User. Can relate to using Novum results in Abyss (for those already using Abyss) _ but not useful to add Abyss after acquiring Novum _ yes ??
Lifeforms expansion should get me past early fog using Novum.


----------



## Fidelity

sostenuto said:


> Tending strongly, yet far different choice _ Generate ( _PB @ $74._ )_ delaying final decision.
> BLEAK expansion raises deal to ~ $120.
> 
> Novum _ for sure _ add Lifeforms expansion at similar cost. Flipping coin does not help ! _🪙_


Entirely different beasts. Generate has some great edgy sounds (including pads), novum is more...idk, unique and complex pads, soundscapes, and pulsating polys. Definitely check out the demo vid for the first light expansion...that's what sold me on it personally.


----------



## sostenuto

Fidelity said:


> Entirely different beasts. Generate has some great edgy sounds (including pads), novum is more...idk, unique and complex pads, soundscapes, and pulsating polys. Definitely check out the demo vid for the first light expansion...that's what sold me on it personally.


Notable differences have been somewhat clear, yet that does not preclude difficulty choosing. A further uncertainty involves Novum's newness /uniqueness _ with unknown potential.
Generate seems more mainstream, which can be a benefit or deterrent.

Need to check out Novum _ First Light expansion. Was not aware of it except for @ doctoremmet recent post. 

(edit) _may be the needed piece to place Novum in best perspective going forward. _


----------



## Alchemedia

sostenuto said:


> Generate seems more mainstream, which can be a benefit or deterrent.



I wouldn't say Generate is "mainstream". It's a rather unique synth.


----------



## spektralisk

sostenuto said:


> Novum Demo/Trial. Weak chops to sort thru many synth controls. Info so far _ suggests major strength lies in dragging in Samples. If this is naively incorrect, then even further at odds with Novum as useful tool versus attractive options. Plz do not fail to note personal awareness of strong endorsements since Intro ! 'Quality' Presets are attractive tools, yet more are desired.
> Continue to baffle over reasons to continue adding both Abyss + Novum ???
> Cuz some do ......


I would get Abyss because
1) It doesn't require samples which may be an advantage especially that you can quickly randomise tone colour strip to explore new timbres
2) I have a sound pack coming for it soon :D


----------



## Pier

kgdrum said:


> nunsense


I didn't want to derail this thread any more... but I have to say you've outdone yourself here.


----------



## sostenuto

Alchemedia said:


> I wouldn't say Generate is "mainstream". It's a rather unique synth.


----------



## sostenuto

At some level this is true of almost all popular softsynths. 
*I should have stated differently, and was very focused on comparisons with Novum. *

Would not have posted if Generate did not offer notable capabilities, apart from list of others already used routinely. Have Pendulate, thus limited idea of Generate potential.


----------



## doctoremmet

Novum First Light - Scraping Terror


Soundscape demo featuring two patches from the sound library First Light, available on patchpool.net - some volume automation applied.




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## sostenuto

patchpool / First Light _ personal gamechanger in favor of Novum as next addition. 
Thankful for timing of Simon Stockhausen notable involvement.


----------



## jbuhler

doctoremmet said:


> Novum First Light - Scraping Terror
> 
> 
> Soundscape demo featuring two patches from the sound library First Light, available on patchpool.net - some volume automation applied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soundcloud.app.goo.gl


Is this available yet? The patchpool website still lists it as pre-release.


----------



## doctoremmet

jbuhler said:


> Is this available yet? The patchpool website still lists it as pre-release.


There was a pre-order and those who took advantage of that received their first batch of I think 42 patches a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## jbuhler

doctoremmet said:


> There was a pre-order and those who took advantage of that received their first batch of I think 42 patches a couple of weeks ago.


Well, I purchased and haven't yet received any notice back from patchpool other than the paypal receipt. We'll see, I guess, when any patches are generally available.


----------



## Sampleconstruct

jbuhler said:


> Well, I purchased and haven't yet received any notice back from patchpool other than the paypal receipt. We'll see, I guess, when any patches are generally available.


I'll send you the order confirmation in a few minutes from now, I'm still on the road.


----------



## doctoremmet

jbuhler said:


> Well, I purchased and haven't yet received any notice back from patchpool other than the paypal receipt. We'll see, I guess, when any patches are generally available.


I think Simon is almost finished and has decided to drop “the rest” shortly, when the pack sees its proper release. As usual the patches are well documented and extremely good.

Ha, and the maestro dropped a reply the moment I hit “submit”


----------



## jbuhler

Sampleconstruct said:


> I'll send you the order confirmation in a few minutes from now, I'm still on the road.


No problem. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## Otonal

Have really been enjoying doing custom sound-design in Novum since purchasing a license recently...

It does benefit from some post EQing and compression to sculpt the final sound though, and being a bit spoiled by the EQs and compressors built into virtual-instruments such as Zebra2, ZebraHZ, Serum and Vital makes one wish there were such options in the FX section that could be tweaked and saved with presets.

All the same, it's an amazing sounding instrument and no problem with external EQ and compression with the beautiful timbres that are possible.


----------



## doctoremmet

Feeling nervous? Don’t listen to this then 









Novum First Light - Major Trombone Cloud


Improvising with a single Novum patch from the sound library First Light, available on patchpool.net




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Feeling nervous? Don’t listen to this then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novum First Light - Major Trombone Cloud
> 
> 
> Improvising with a single Novum patch from the sound library First Light, available on patchpool.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soundcloud.app.goo.gl


*Long ago* _ aspiring youth trombonist _ tried out for Bonham Boys Band ( _regular Rose Parade participants_ ). Tossed out at first rehersal. 😢 

NFL - Major Trombone Cloud = my kinda thing !! ❣️❣️


----------



## Sampleconstruct

Otonal said:


> Have really been enjoying doing custom sound-design in Novum since purchasing a license recently...
> 
> It does benefit from some post EQing and compression to sculpt the final sound though, and being a bit spoiled by the EQs and compressors built into virtual-instruments such as Zebra2, ZebraHZ, Serum and Vital makes one wish there were such options in the FX section that could be tweaked and saved with presets.
> 
> All the same, it's an amazing sounding instrument and no problem with external EQ and compression with the beautiful timbres that are possible.


If you use just a little bit of distortion in hard-mode you can achieve a compression-like effect.


----------



## Sampleconstruct

sostenuto said:


> *Long ago* _ aspiring youth trombonist _ tried out for Bonham Boys Band ( _regular Rose Parade participants_ ). Tossed out at first rehersal. 😢
> 
> NFL - Major Trombone Cloud = my kinda thing !! ❣️❣️


It would be quite challenging to accurately transcribe that track for a trombone orchestra 😀


----------



## Bee_Abney

Sampleconstruct said:


> It would be quite challenging to accurately transcribe that track for a trombone orchestra 😀


It might be easier to cut up a whole lot of semi-quavers, dip them in glue, load them into a blunderbuss and then shoot them at the manuscript. (No, I don't know how to read or write music!)


----------



## Sampleconstruct

Bee_Abney said:


> It might be easier to cut up a whole lot of semi-quavers, dip them in glue, load them into a blunderbuss and then shoot them at the manuscript. (No, I don't know how to read or write music!)


😆 that would be John Cage style, would probably work just fine 🙂


----------



## Pat Maddox

Bee_Abney said:


> I believe Novum is seen as being a good source for new material to use in Abyss. One thing Novum is very good at is pads, after all.


I've seen this statement a few times and am wondering... is it backwards?

I don't see anywhere that you can import samples into Abyss.

But a couple other people have said something similar - that you can use Novum's output in Abyss - so I just want to double check.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pat Maddox said:


> I've seen this statement a few times and am wondering... is it backwards?
> 
> I don't see anywhere that you can import samples into Abyss.
> 
> But a couple other people have said something similar - that you can use Novum's output in Abyss - so I just want to double check.


I don't have Abyss myself, but perhaps the update hasn't been made yet; and it is possible I misunderstood. But PeterV, Dawesome, said earlier in this thread that both Abyss and Novum would be updated to allow for the sharing of tone colours:






The Dawesome Thread - NOVUM available







vi-control.net





Also, perhaps 'tone colours' does not mean samples; but I think it must mean something like it.


----------



## Markrs

Dawesome Abyss is now $49 at Plugin Boutique









Dawesome Abyss


Dawesome Abyss, Dawesome Abyss plugin, buy Dawesome Abyss, download Dawesome Abyss trial, Tracktion Dawesome Abyss




www.pluginboutique.com


----------



## spektralisk

Just wanted to share my latest work for Abyss. This is Jovian sound pack that I've just released with Tracktion. 

It comes in two installments:
Jovian Evolve - soundscapes and pads
Jovian Attack - sort of transient based sounds like hits, signal, keys, basses etc. 





Hope you enjoy the sounds.


----------



## doctoremmet

spektralisk said:


> Just wanted to share my latest work for Abyss. This is Jovian sound pack that I've just released with Tracktion.
> 
> It comes in two installments:
> Jovian Evolve - soundscapes and pads
> Jovian Attack - sort of transient based sounds like hits, signal, keys, basses etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you enjoy the sounds.



Excellent work


----------



## spektralisk

doctoremmet said:


> Excellent work


Thank you.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Patchpool's Novum complete First Light soundset has been sent out to those who pre-ordered and is available to buy now for Euro 36. Thank you @Sampleconstruct!






patchpool.net | Sounds and Presets by Simon Stockhausen | Novum First Light







www.patchpool.net


----------



## Bee_Abney

spektralisk said:


> Just wanted to share my latest work for Abyss. This is Jovian sound pack that I've just released with Tracktion.
> 
> It comes in two installments:
> Jovian Evolve - soundscapes and pads
> Jovian Attack - sort of transient based sounds like hits, signal, keys, basses etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you enjoy the sounds.



Wonderful!


----------



## musicsoftwaredeals

Markrs said:


> Dawesome Abyss is now $49 at Plugin Boutique
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dawesome Abyss
> 
> 
> Dawesome Abyss, Dawesome Abyss plugin, buy Dawesome Abyss, download Dawesome Abyss trial, Tracktion Dawesome Abyss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pluginboutique.com


And its the lowest price so far:






Price History - Music Software Deals







musicsoftwaredeals.com


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


>



It's brilliant, isn't it.


----------



## spektralisk

doctoremmet said:


>



Beautiful!


----------



## Sampleconstruct

Thanks folks 😀


----------



## Technostica

Fell in love yesterday with Novum via YT vids so figured I should try the demo. 
My system will freeze and I tracked it back to a 100% load on my GPU.
I only have a Nvidia 1030 but I've never had an issue with any other plug-in.
I updated the driver and now it doesn't go past ~80%.
But that's after only testing it for an hour so it may flare up again.
I did notice in the demo that the graphics are sumptuous compared to most.
It's currently ~$91 at JRR, but if I have to buy a new GPU it starts to get expensive! 

Anyone else had GPU issues with Dawesome plugins?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Technostica said:


> Fell in love yesterday with Novum via YT vids so figured I should try the demo.
> My system will freeze and I tracked it back to a 100% load on my GPU.
> I only have a Nvidia 1030 but I've never had an issue with any other plug-in.
> I updated the driver and now it doesn't go past ~80%.
> But that's after only testing it for an hour so it may flare up again.
> I did notice in the demo that the graphics are sumptuous compared to most.
> It's currently ~$91 at JRR, but if I have to buy a new GPU it starts to get expensive!
> 
> Anyone else had GPU issues with Dawesome plugins?


I've had no problems with Novum. I can't remember details, but my specs aren't great as games don't run well.


----------



## Fleer

Same here. But I’m on a Mac.


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

Technostica said:


> Fell in love yesterday with Novum via YT vids so figured I should try the demo.
> My system will freeze and I tracked it back to a 100% load on my GPU.
> I only have a Nvidia 1030 but I've never had an issue with any other plug-in.
> I updated the driver and now it doesn't go past ~80%.
> But that's after only testing it for an hour so it may flare up again.
> I did notice in the demo that the graphics are sumptuous compared to most.
> It's currently ~$91 at JRR, but if I have to buy a new GPU it starts to get expensive!
> 
> Anyone else had GPU issues with Dawesome plugins?


I've run Novum without issues on a laptop with Intel Xe graphics which is a low spec GPU but reasonably recent. I wonder if there is just some updated DirectX or OpenGL code in Novum that relies on acceleration not present on the 1030.

*Update*: Just tested it on the said laptop and it generally sits at 11% GPU.
Windows 11, 2 x 1080p screens, Reaper, Novum on single channel. If I open a Web Browser, then GPU can peak to 25%


----------



## Technostica

Technostica said:


> Fell in love yesterday with Novum via YT vids so figured I should try the demo.
> My system will freeze and I tracked it back to a 100% load on my GPU.
> I only have a Nvidia 1030 but I've never had an issue with any other plug-in.
> I updated the driver and now it doesn't go past ~80%.
> But that's after only testing it for an hour so it may flare up again.
> I did notice in the demo that the graphics are sumptuous compared to most.
> It's currently ~$91 at JRR, but if I have to buy a new GPU it starts to get expensive!
> 
> Anyone else had GPU issues with Dawesome plugins?



I installed the latest Nvidia driver and that reduced the maximum GPU load to ~80%, so there are no issues now.
On further investigation, it turns out that my GPU load is pretty high in Ableton with all the plugins I tested, so the issue is nothing to do with Novum.
It does have a higher load than most, but not substantially so.
But because my system was already experiencing high GPU loads, it only took a moderately more demanding plugin to push it over the edge.
I was already thinking over removing my GPU card and going back to using the integrated graphics in my i9-9900, so this has reinforced that.

Peter, the developer, kindly reached out to me via this forum.
We exchanged emails and he was very helpful.
Super impressed with the support I received and I didn't even contact them!


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

Technostica said:


> I installed the latest Nvidia driver and that reduced the maximum GPU load to ~80%, so there are no issues now.
> On further investigation, it turns out that my GPU load is pretty high in Ableton with all the plugins I tested, so the issue is nothing to do with Novum.
> It does have a higher load than most, but not substantially so.
> But because my system was already experiencing high GPU loads, it only took a moderately more demanding plugin to push it over the edge.
> I was already thinking over removing my GPU card and going back to using the integrated graphics in my i9-9900, so this has reinforced that.
> 
> Peter, the developer, kindly reached out to me via this forum.
> We exchanged emails and he was very helpful.
> Super impressed with the support I received and I didn't even contact them!


@Pictus has some info on how to do a minimal driver install to help with NVIDIA woes, I believe. I've moved over to Radeon cards where possible but they don't have any silent, passively cooled models.


----------



## Pier

rhizomusicosmos said:


> @Pictus has some info on how to do a minimal driver install to help with NVIDIA woes, I believe. I've moved over to Radeon cards where possible but they don't have any silent, passively cooled models.


The Asus Strix cards have a 0db mode where the fans don't start until you're pushing the GPU hard.


----------



## Crowe

Sooo, I'm looking for new granular synths and am having a hard time making decisions at this point, especially in the Novum pricerange.

For the sake of argument, why would one recommend Novum over Pigments 3 (same pricerange, also granular)?

(And yeah, I'm downloading the demo. Today I'm in the mood for some... _opinions.)_


----------



## doctoremmet

Pigments is more of a workhorse synth, that can do granular among other things. I like it, don’t love it. Although a couple of patches by @arovane did wow me earlier this year. I’d describe it as a useful tool. Capable of beautiful tones. But somehow I keep having a slightly disappointed feeling about it. Based on my own misunderstanding no doubt.

NOVUM is more of a niche offering that does one thing (load in samples and spectrally mangle them into some sort of gorgeous sounding oblivion) extremely well. I have a lot of fun using it. I also quite like the developer and his approach to things. I view it as a boutique option in the granular landscape that can truly inspire me. I’d prefer NOVUM and would maybe check out Arturia’s Fragments as a more ‘standard’ tool for granular explorations.

I realize this is pretty vague. And highly subjective. But hey, like you I know nothing - but I do like opinions. And this is mine. Today’s opinion anyway.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Crowe said:


> Sooo, I'm looking for new granular synths and am having a hard time making decisions at this point, especially in the Novum pricerange.
> 
> For the sake of argument, why would one recommend Novum over Pigments 3 (same pricerange, also granular)?
> 
> (And yeah, I'm downloading the demo. Today I'm in the mood for some... _opinions.)_


I don't think of Novum as a granular synth as such; although it is! It is a spectral deconstructor and rebuilder, with an element of resynthesis, that puts all of that through a granularator (is that the right word?). It is fantastic. It is niche in as much as the form of spectral deconstruction is uses is not found elsewhere. It may also be niche for the kinds of sounds that produces; but I think less so, because with the other elements it does end up sounding at least fairly familiar, even thought the process of getting there is very different.

Novum is excellent for pads, though it can do other things too if you want it to.

Pigments is a very good all rounder that has certain advantages over its competitors. It's granular oscillator is particularly good, it has a nice collection of not-sub standard effects. It can also import more samples than most synths and can both layer them and separate them amongst different areas of the keyboard. It also has two filters that can be used in serial, in parallel, or for different oscillators. But the one thing for me that marks it out over my own personal favourite (Falcon) is the ease of importing samples and using them as wave tables. Just drag and drop, set the play head to follow an envelope or LFO, and go.

Two similes for you.

Novum sounds melting glass appears, watched through a prism.

Pigments sounds like the appearance of the panels of a phone booth where you aren't sure if it is glass or plastic.


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> I don't think of Novum as a granular synth as such; although it is! It is a spectral deconstructor and rebuilder, with an element of resynthesis, that puts all of that through a granularator (is that the right word?). It is fantastic. It is niche in as much as the form of spectral deconstruction is uses is not found elsewhere. It may also be niche for the kinds of sounds that produces; but I think less so, because with the other elements it does end up sounding at least fairly familiar, even thought the process of getting there is very different.
> 
> Novum is excellent for pads, though it can do other things too if you want it to.
> 
> Pigments is a very good all rounder that has certain advantages over its competitors. It's granular oscillator is particularly good, it has a nice collection of not-sub standard effects. It can also import more samples than most synths and can both layer them and separate them amongst different areas of the keyboard. It also has two filters that can be used in serial, in parallel, or for different oscillators. But the one thing for me that marks it out over my own personal favourite (Falcon) is the ease of importing samples and using them as wave tables. Just drag and drop, set the play head to follow an envelope or LFO, and go.
> 
> Two similes for you.
> 
> Novum sounds melting glass appears, watched through a prism.
> 
> Pigments sounds like the appearance of the panels of a phone booth where you aren't sure if it is glass or plastic.


Please DM me when your first novel is ready. Gosh, your mastery of language is amazing. ❤️


----------



## Technostica

Bee_Abney said:


> Two similes for you.
> 
> Novum sounds melting glass appears, watched through a prism.
> 
> Pigments sounds like the appearance of the panels of a phone booth where you aren't sure if it is glass or plastic.


More plumb liqueur and Absinthe cocktails down at the abbey it seems!
Just don't open the Christmas liqueur chocolates before the first day of Advent or all hell will break loose.


----------



## sostenuto

Technostica said:


> More plumb liqueur and Absinthe cocktails down at the abbey it seems!
> Just don't open the Christmas liqueur chocolates before the first day of Advent or all hell will break loose.


Sister Bee always includes Sister-Superior Benevolent in all such imbibing events ! 👭


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## doctoremmet

JRRshop / coupon GROUP:


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


>



It's so beautiful. An hour of that video as background music whilst reading science-fiction would be amazing.


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Sister Bee always includes Sister-Superior Benevolent in all such imbibing events ! 👭


It gets cold. One has to take health seriously whilst drinking all night in a drafty convent.


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> It gets cold. One has to take health seriously whilst drinking all night in a drafty convent.


Ha ! _ 'drafty' kinda sets a tone _ _as in I'll have another draft, sister, 'hic' _😮‍💨


----------



## Bee_Abney

You can make all sorts of sounds with Novum. For instance, here I turn a scream into tuned percussion. I added an external compressor as Novum doesn't include one. Please excuse the awful timing of the playing of the finger drumming!


View attachment Novum for Percussion.mp3


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> You can make all sorts of sounds with Novum. For instance, here I turn a scream into tuned percussion. I added an external compressor as Novum doesn't include one. Please excuse the awful timing of the playing of the finger drumming!
> 
> 
> View attachment Novum for Percussion.mp3


Current deal quite tempting, yet so is PP's _ and LegacyZ. So many ways to relieve GAS in ~~ $ 90. increments ! 🎶 bump bump bump _ scream 🎶


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Current deal quite tempting, yet so is PP's _ and LegacyZ. So many ways to exhaust GAS in ~~ $ 90. increments !


There will be other sales on NOVUM, I'm sure!


----------



## Alchemedia

sostenuto said:


> Current deal quite tempting, yet so is PP's _ and LegacyZ. So many ways to relieve GAS in ~~ $ 90. increments ! 🎶 bump bump bump _ scream 🎶


I'd take Zebra &/or Novum over PP.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Alchemedia said:


> I'd take Zebra &/or Novum over PP.


I suppose that I did do precisely that. But Phaseplant sounds great, too; it just never really appealed to me personally.


----------



## kgdrum

Alchemedia said:


> I'd take Zebra &/or Novum over PP.


Me too and that’s precisely what I already have done.Phaseplant might be great but I haven’t wanted to take the plunge.

Zebra ☑️
Novum☑️


----------



## Alchemedia

Bee_Abney said:


> You can make all sorts of sounds with Novum. For instance, here I turn a scream into tuned percussion. I added an external compressor as Novum doesn't include one. Please excuse the awful timing of the playing of the finger drumming!
> 
> 
> View attachment Novum for Percussion.mp3


Wondering what was your motivation for that scream? I assume @kgdrum was involved since it mutated into percussion.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Alchemedia said:


> Wondering what was your motivation for that scream? I assume @kgdrum was involved since it mutated into percussion.


I have an extensive collection of recorded screams; and I hadn't used Novum for percussion before.

I don't yet have any screams from Mr. Drum in my collection. But I will.


----------



## sostenuto

Alchemedia said:


> I'd take Zebra &/or Novum over PP.


Kinda noting 'cooling off' period after early PP rush. As softsynth shallow-diver _ Zebra Legacy expansions seem strong attraction. Would not likely take advantage of Novum creative strengths.


----------



## Crowe

Alchemedia said:


> I'd take Zebra &/or Novum over PP.


Ahhh crikey, I already have both Zebra & pp so I guess that's it then.

Also PP is fantastic you heathens.

Just, y'know. Not for granular synthesis


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> I have an extensive collection of recorded screams; and I hadn't used Novum for percussion before.
> 
> I don't yet have any screams from Mr. Drum in my collection. But I will.


such an amateur so far all you have wanted is grunts……….


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> such an amateur so far all you have wanted is grunts……….


Yes, but not from YOU!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Crowe said:


> Ahhh crikey, I already have both Zebra & pp so I guess that's it then.
> 
> Also PP is fantastic you heathens.
> 
> Just, y'know. Not for granular synthesis


It is clearly fantastic! I just can't see myself wanting to make sounds in it. It's a subtle difference from the synths that draw me in; and no discredit to the glory that is peepee. Sorry, Phaseplant. I get confused.


----------



## Crowe

Yeaaaaaah... I'll have to do some extensive demo'ing but after doing a bit more research I'm clearly gravitating towards...


why not both?


----------



## Alchemedia

sostenuto said:


> Kinda noting 'cooling off' period after early PP rush. As softsynth shallow-diver _ Zebra Legacy expansions seem strong attraction. Would not likely take advantage of Novum creative strengths.


Zebra is the best value and most versatile of the 3. Plus no need to buy additional fx modules nor endure annoying pop-ups encouraging you to do so ala PP.


----------



## Alchemedia

Bee_Abney said:


> It is clearly fantastic! I just can't see myself wanting to make sounds in it. It's a subtle difference from the synths that draw me in; and no discredit to the glory that is peepee. Sorry, Phaseplant. I get confused.


Although I appreciate PP's workFLOW, it can't hold a candle to Falcon sound-wise (oscillators, fx, etc.).


----------



## Bee_Abney

Crowe said:


> Yeaaaaaah... I'll have to do some extensive demo'ing but after doing a bit more research I'm clearly gravitating towards...
> 
> 
> why not both?


I hear that Zebra3 is the way to go. Trust U-he. Upgrade paths for the win!

Alright, alright, I’m going. But you’ll be sorry, just mark my words!

No brainer, no brainer, no brainer....


----------



## Bee_Abney

I don't even know who I was mocking in my last post. Maybe life itself. Frell you, life! What have you ever done for me? Aside from aqueducts?


----------



## Crowe

Bee_Abney said:


> I hear that Zebra3 is the way to go. Trust U-he. Upgrade paths for the win!
> 
> Alright, alright, I’m going. But you’ll be sorry, just mark my words!
> 
> No brainer, no brainer, no brainer....


I can see what you're doing and you are walking on thin ice, my dear.

You should know by now how easily I can be #triggered



> I don't even know who I was mocking in my last post.


As long as someone was mocked, I'm sure it'll be fine in the end.


----------



## Fidelity

Crowe said:


> I can see what you're doing and you are walking on thin ice, my dear.
> 
> You should know by now how easily I can be #triggered
> 
> 
> As long as someone was mocked, I'm sure it'll be fine in the end.



Bee is one of the nicest people on here. Give it a rest.

Edit: derp, my bad. me dumb.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Fidelity said:


> Bee is one of the nicest people on here. Give it a rest.


That was @Crowe being nice, with sarcasm, which fits. I was trying to make a joke about an earlier discussion which broke down somewhat in the hopes of smoothing things over a bit.

Don't worry as I think Crowe's response was in the same style; but thanks, I appreciate it. That's very kind of you.


----------



## Crowe

Fidelity said:


> Bee is one of the nicest people on here. Give it a rest.


Nothing in that post was serious. I'm well aware of Bee's personality here.


----------



## Alchemedia

Crowe said:


> Also PP is fantastic you heathens.


“All Your Neuro Bass Are Belong to PP.”


----------



## sostenuto

Alchemedia said:


> Although I appreciate PP's workFLOW, it can't hold a candle to Falcon sound-wise (oscillators, fx, etc.).


Falc'd again ! 🤕


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> That was @Crowe being nice, with sarcasm, which fits. I was trying to make a joke about an earlier discussion which broke down somewhat in the hopes of smoothing things over a bit.
> 
> Don't worry as I think Crowe's response was in the same style; but thanks, I appreciate it. That's very kind of you.


Nun'd again ! 😵


----------



## cedricm

Bee_Abney said:


> I suppose that I did do precisely that. But Phaseplant sounds great, too; it just never really appealed to me personally.


PP is easy to underestimate imo.


----------



## doctoremmet

70 new presets for NOVUM by wizard Yuli Yolo @Whywhy


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> 70 new presets for NOVUM by wizard Yuli Yolo @Whywhy



At $50, I can't get it right now. But form the beginning of the video these soundset has that @Whywhy style, and it just keeps getting better the more I listen to.

Like Simon Stockhausen's great Novum soundset, this not only a collection of sounds, it's a course of study!


----------



## mgaewsj

actually it's $25 with the FRIDAY22 code


----------



## Crowe

sostenuto said:


> Nun'd again ! 😵


Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nun'c.


----------



## Bee_Abney

mgaewsj said:


> actually it's $25 with the FRIDAY22 code


Thank you! Oh dear, I have not been keeping up with the sales. Okay, now it is a serious contender!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Wish the Lifeforms (Novum) sound pack contained some patches recognizably derived from animal sounds (doesn't seem to from the demo, though "Stew" has some sounds obviously derived from or imitating liquid flowing and bubbling... no other obvious nature sounds). (Then again that was supposed to be Biotek's thing and none of the Biotek 2 sound packs do that afaik. While the vast majority of Biotek 2 presets using nature sounds (that are at all recognizable as being derived from specific nature sounds) have them more as background elements.) But (Novum) Signals at least has some nice cries, and titanic stomping....

For the BF sale I'm leaning towards Probably for Particle Motion (Novum does this really well), Maybe for Signals, Probably Not for Lifeforms (even though before listening I would have expected this to be my favorite), depending on what other deals arise....


----------



## mgaewsj

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Wish the Lifeforms (Novum) sound pack contained some patches recognizably derived from animal sounds (doesn't seem to from the demo, though "Stew" has some sounds obviously derived from or imitating liquid flowing and bubbling... no other obvious nature sounds). (Then again that was supposed to be Biotek's thing and none of the Biotek 2 sound packs do that afaik. While the vast majority of Biotek 2 presets using nature sounds (that are at all recognizable as being derived from specific nature sounds) have them more as background elements.) But (Novum) Signals at least has some nice cries, and titanic stomping....
> 
> For the BF sale I'm leaning towards Probably for Particle Motion (Novum does this really well), Maybe for Signals, Probably Not for Lifeforms (even though before listening I would have expected this to be my favorite), depending on what other deals arise....


don't forget First Light (also currently discounted)





patchpool.net | Sounds and Presets by Simon Stockhausen | Novum First Light







patchpool.net


----------



## cedricm

Are there any demo tracks / noteworthy user compositions with Novum sounds? Still not sure what I would use it for.


----------



## Bee_Abney

cedricm said:


> Are there any demo tracks / noteworthy user compositions with Novum sounds? Still not sure what I would use it for.




Not notable, but this is the first thing I made with it on the day of release. Other than the voices, this is all Novum. I hadn't fully learned to use it by then, though.



This was made entirely with five patches from Patchpool's Novum soundset, First Light.

But you could check out Patchpool/Sampleconstruct/Simon Stockhausen's own demos here:






patchpool.net | Sounds and Presets by Simon Stockhausen | Novum First Light







www.patchpool.net


----------



## mgaewsj

cedricm said:


> Are there any demo tracks / noteworthy user compositions with Novum sounds? Still not sure what I would use it for.


I am not sure it is "noteworthy" 🙂 but this is just Novum and Ascend (piano)



but you could use Novum for much more than this (in terms of timbre, mood, etc.)


----------



## Bee_Abney

mgaewsj said:


> I am not sure it is "noteworthy" 🙂 but this is just Novum and Ascend (piano)
> 
> 
> 
> but you could use Novum for much more than this (in terms of timbre, mood, etc.)



That's great! I really like your approach to the video.

Yes, Novum can be used for more than pads and textures, though it excels at those. It can be used for leads, bass, percussion and so on.


----------



## SupremeFist

mgaewsj said:


> actually it's $25 with the FRIDAY22 code


Oh ok instabought. I love everything by @Whywhy. 🤘🏻


----------



## Markrs

sostenuto said:


> FRIDAY22 not valid right now ??


Code Working fine, as I just tried it.


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> jrrshop.com _ FRIDAY22 not valid right now ??


That code works on the Tracktion website, not the JRR shop


----------



## doctoremmet

SupremeFist said:


> Oh ok instabought. I love everything by @Whywhy. 🤘🏻


As you should


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> That code works on the Tracktion website, not the JRR shop


Yeah _ Novum + expansions was focus on jrrshop,com. Particle Motion topic evaded me. 
First Light has priority _ then others. THX !


----------



## doctoremmet

Totally off-topic, but does anyone know who is / are behind Soundsdivine soundsets? Are they on here by any chance? I’ve listened to a couple of demos for a bunch of synths, and their sets all sound bloody brilliant. The Knifonium one for instance seems like a winner, but the Xils Lab 4 and PolyKB III sets are also extremely tempting.

I’m kind of waiting for a BF sale to be announced and was wondering how I managed to have never heard of them before?


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Yeah Particle Motion evaded me. First Light has priority _ then others. THX !


First Light is a bloody work of art. Go grab that first!


----------



## mgaewsj

so my BF is definitively Novus focused up to now 🙂 
I bought Novum itself, First Light and right now also Particle Motion 🤟
gotta invest in learning a lot from those packs!


----------



## Markrs

Where is the First Light preset pack for Novum, I had a look on the tracktion website but I couldn’t see it?


----------



## kgdrum

Markrs said:


> Where is the First Light preset pack for Novum, I had a look on the tracktion website but I couldn’t see it?


Same 
@doctoremmet 
I don’t see this on the Tracktion website or JRRshop where is this “work of Art?”


----------



## ckeddf

First Light can be bought here:






patchpool.net | Sounds and Presets by Simon Stockhausen | Novum First Light







www.patchpool.de


----------



## Fleer

doctoremmet said:


> 70 new presets for NOVUM by wizard Yuli Yolo @Whywhy



This is really something. Those plucks! And it's a quarter of a GB strong.


----------



## Braveheart

I see Novum at 75$ at JRRShop. I already own a ton of synths. Is it still worth it?


----------



## doctoremmet

Braveheart said:


> I see Novum at 75$ at JRRShop. I already own a ton of synths. Is it still worth it?


Still? Despite you having a ton of synths? Or because it was released more than 6 minutes ago? 

Yes it CAN be worth it, that mostly depends on your personal needs. NOVUM is a unique synth with a unique methodology for arriving at very useful, grainy, beautiful sounds. Check out some of Simon Stockhausen’s beautiful patches and then check if you think you need that and / or whether your current synths can achieve that.


----------



## Crowe

Braveheart said:


> I see Novum at 75$ at JRRShop. I already own a ton of synths. Is it still worth it?


There's a three month trial. If you're unsure, test it. I already love it.


----------



## zzz00m

Crowe said:


> There's a three month trial. If you're unsure, test it. I already love it.


My 3-month trial ran out about the same time as my synth budget...

But I do like it!


----------



## Braveheart

Crowe said:


> There's a three month trial. If you're unsure, test it. I already love it.


I'm testing it right now. I see there's a preset named 'Bee dirty pad'. I now understand what the fuzz is about this synth around here. @Bee_Abney


----------



## doctoremmet

Braveheart said:


> I'm testing it right now. I see there's a preset named 'Bee dirty pad'. I now understand what the fuzz is about this synth around here.


That pad was literally build out of samples that Bee provided to the developer in this very thread


----------



## kgdrum

doctoremmet said:


> That pad was literally build out of samples that Bee provided to the developer in this very thread


Thank You @doctoremmet

I’m so relieved,unfortunately I thought the name Dirty Pads was derived from an entirely different set of circumstances………..🚿

Best Regards


----------



## Fleer

Now I’m stuck with this image.


----------



## Marsen

doctoremmet said:


> 70 new presets for NOVUM by wizard Yuli Yolo @Whywhy



Incredible sounds.
Do I have to get this Novum Granular now? Oh my...
Haven´t heared anything, which can compete with this. Great stuff.


----------



## KarlHeinz

Might be of interest for any Novum owner:









ChillyPop Phrases V1 for Unify


54 Phrases (164 Loops total due to many having up to 8 mix variations), Custom sampled 808 Style SUB Basses, a custom created 61 Sample Drum Kit with 55 Modern drum grooves and custom bell, keyboard and synth patches. Only Unify required to power this 427 Patch 5GB library!




www.pluginguru.com





If I get it right you dont even need Unify for it but of course if makes most sense if you own both (Novum and Unify).

The actual livestream seem to be about it too.

EDIT: strange, the title is of cours BS but it leads to the right site with Dreamstate (BF chaos I would think


----------



## Dirtgrain

Never mind.


----------



## Dirtgrain

The manual says, "Whomever wants to use your pack simply unzips the pack on their system and then uses drag and drop of the unzipped folder to NOVUM. This will register the pack in NOVUM - all patches are now available."

This worked (I whiffed in my first try).


----------



## Fleer

Did you get it through Tracktion? I did, and it installed swiftly with the Tracktion download manager.


----------



## Dirtgrain

Fleer said:


> Did you get it through Tracktion? I did, and it installed swiftly with the Tracktion download manager.


I did use the Tracktion download manager. It opened up the folder once it was done, but I didn't see it installed in Novum, so I went about it manually. Maybe it was installed the whole time--no worries, it's there now.


----------



## Zvon

Hi everyone!

Just released 24 free presets for Novum. It's on my Free Sounds page (with other free goodies):
https://lesproductionszvon.com/freesounds.htm


Sorry no video demo yet except for this short one:


----------



## bcslaam

I just installed Novum on a win10 pc and its registered fine in Nuendo 11 but no matter what I do I cant get VePro7 to see it. Anyone else having this issue?

I have reinstalled Novum with Tracktion (initially I used the manual install file). Its activated and basic library installed fine via Nuendo. I have the VST3 folder properly registered in VePro and other instruments from that folder (and my custom VST2 folder) are available. Restarted, reset/rescanned. Still no Novum in VePro :( I gather there isnt a VST2 version available?

edit: I just have seen talk in Jan this year about VePro7 still not able to host VST3! Mann that's shocking. The synths I am seeing that exist in the VST3 folder also exist as VST2 so that explains why.


----------



## cedricm

Yes, there is no vst2 version.
What you can do is use NUGEN Audio SigMod, which can host VST2, VST3 and AU plugins.
You can try it for free.


----------



## bcslaam

cedricm said:


> Yes, there is no vst2 version.
> What you can do is use NUGEN Audio SigMod, which can host VST2, VST3 and AU plugins.
> You can try it for free.


Thanks Cedric. I have just successfully used the free xultop VST3 to VST2 wrapper found from this thread in KVR









KVR Forum: VST3 to VST2 adaptor update to v1.2.1 - Page 2 - Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.) Forum


KVR Audio Forum - VST3 to VST2 adaptor update to v1.2.1 - Page 2 - Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.) Forum




www.kvraudio.com





It works fine so far. Many thanks to the Xultop guy.


----------



## doctoremmet

SupremeFist said:


> Oh ok instabought. I love everything by @Whywhy. 🤘🏻


@Whywhy That patch PULSAR MALLET is just…. brilliant. A future classic. I typically forget patch names, but not this one. My eternal respect and adoration is yours mister Yuli Yolo.


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

Finally pulled the plug and picked it up in the NOVUMber sales . . .

I think the generous trial period is a bit sneaky. You have so much time with Novum that it ends up in various projects and then you're compelled to purchase it at the end because you can't live without it. It's blackmail! Blackmail, I tell you!


----------



## Zvon

I made a more extensive demo in 2 parts. The first part covers most of the first 11 patches. They are brassy sounds with source sample from my Marching Band Horn set.


----------



## Zvon

And the second part covers most of the 13 last patches. They are a mixed bunch that includes FXs and pads.


----------



## grabauf

Something new...


----------



## doctoremmet

And there it is…. @Peter V has made his fourth instrument / third synthesizer!

Psyched


----------



## sostenuto

Guess I'm a KULT kinda guy, after all _ 😜 
_Oldum vs Novum ? 
Almost fell into ABYSS ! _


----------



## elucid

Is that… a one note demo..?

Sold!


----------



## Crowe

Holy F that's mesmerizing.


----------



## Fleer

WHEN?


----------



## doctoremmet

Soon. TM. I’d say maybe even before Pacific hits our wallets.


----------



## Peter V

Fleer said:


> WHEN?


The plan is: one week before xmas.


----------



## Zvon

Fleer said:


> WHEN?


Pete wrote December 2022 in the description


----------



## doctoremmet

Zvon said:


> Pete wrote December in his description 2022


And he replied in the post above yours


----------



## ir99

Well, that's my Christmas present sorted!


----------



## DoubleTap

Peter V said:


> The plan is: one week before xmas.



When you release it, it would be good to have some sort of guide to interpreting the scope. I can see the difference between FM and the sine / saw, but it’s hard to work out much more from the video. Might be really obvious when you have the controls though of course.


----------



## Marcus Millfield

I'm glad you're sticking with your UI design: both elegant and uncluttered. The preview sounds gorgeous.


----------



## doctoremmet

DoubleTap said:


> to interpreting the scope


You mean the oscilloscope I gather, yes? Not the scope of the synthesis engine. Genuine question.


----------



## Crowe

DoubleTap said:


> When you release it, it would be good to have some sort of guide to interpreting the scope. I can see the difference between FM and the sine / saw, but it’s hard to work out much more from the video. Might be really obvious when you have the controls though of course.


I don't think we can say much about the 'scope of the application' from a teaser so I hope it's about the graphical LSD trip. In which case, LSD trips don't come with guides you silly goose.


----------



## doctoremmet

Crowe said:


> I don't think we can say much about the 'scope of the application' from a teaser so I hope it's about the graphical LSD trip. In which case, LSD trips don't come with guides you silly goose.


I am pretty sure Germans have rules and protocols for visualizing their LSD trips. No offense


----------



## DoubleTap

doctoremmet said:


> You mean the oscilloscope I gather, yes? Not the scope of the synthesis engine. Genuine question.



Yes absolutely - I forgot about the second meaning!


----------



## DoubleTap

Crowe said:


> I don't think we can say much about the 'scope of the application' from a teaser so I hope it's about the graphical LSD trip. In which case, LSD trips don't come with guides you silly goose.



Preeeeeetttty sure they come with seventh dimensional spirit guides otherwise who *was* that guy?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Braveheart said:


> I'm testing it right now. I see there's a preset named 'Bee dirty pad'. I now understand what the fuzz is about this synth around here. @Bee_Abney


How did I miss this scurrilous mention! I'm not sure if this complimentary or not!

And I'm also feeling very slow about missing the double meaning in that patch name...

Peter asked for people to submit complex samples so he could demonstrate what Novum could do with them. I was one of the people who did; and he made me a star!


----------



## Braveheart

Bee_Abney said:


> How did I miss this scurrilous mention! I'm not sure if this complimentary or not!
> 
> And I'm also feeling very slow about missing the double meaning in that patch name...
> 
> Peter asked for people to submit complex samples so he could demonstrate what Novum could do with them. I was one of the people who did; and he made me a star!


Of course it’s complimentary. I ended up buying the synth.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Braveheart said:


> Of course it’s complimentary. I ended up buying the synth.


Well, I have never yet been disappointed in your taste! Enjoy it!


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> How did I miss this scurrilous mention! I'm not sure if this complimentary or not!
> 
> And I'm also feeling very slow about missing the double meaning in that patch name...
> 
> Peter asked for people to submit complex samples so he could demonstrate what Novum could do with them. I was one of the people who did; and he made me a star!


Complimentary? Let’s just say that’s debatable but it was definitely the primary reason I purchased Novum!
Bee’s Dirty Pad: double meaning? I can only think of one……………..

Yes Beetrice you are a STAR! ✨⭐✨


----------



## doctoremmet

The moment you just KNOW the presets of a new synth are going to be awesome…. 



@Databroth


----------



## Databroth

this one is very fun, almost like a hybrid between generate and plasmonic
but I don't want to directly compare it to either of those, they all have unique sounds and textures.
While I mostly made pads and ambience for this demo, Kult is Dawesome's best synth so far for basses and leads


----------



## Braveheart

Bee_Abney said:


> Well, I have never yet been disappointed in your taste! Enjoy it!


If you based your knowledge of my taste based on the movie with my name, just know that my taste has evolved quite a bit ever since.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Braveheart said:


> If you based your knowledge of my taste based on the movie with my name, just know that my taste has evolved quite a bit ever since.


It's a good film in a 'throw back to old Hollywood' sort of way. Completely anachronistic and with lots of made up events.

A bit like history documentaries can be...


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> It's a good film in a 'throw back to old Hollywood' sort of way. Completely anachronistic and with lots of made up events.
> 
> A bit like history documentaries can be...


For a moment I thought you were talking about Monty Python and the Holy Grail.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> For a moment I thought you were talking about Monty Python and the Holy Grail.


Which one was Sophie Marceau in?


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> Which one was Sophie Marceau in?


Braveheart


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> Braveheart


Oh, then I meant Holy Grail.


----------



## kgdrum

I’m sorry to be uncharacteristically somewhat on topic but I’m having trouble understanding this new synth Kult from little bit we have heard.So far from the teaser we heard as well as Databroth‘s demo is pads and soundscapes.
I haven’t heard anything that actually sounds like playable patches everything sounds like pads and washes of sound. I hope we hear more examples of what this synth is actually capable of. The genius behind the curtain for this synth has already released some amazing synths but so far I really can’t figure out what this new one is capable of in a musical context.


----------



## doctoremmet

kgdrum said:


> I’m sorry to be uncharacteristically somewhat on topic but I’m having trouble understanding this new synth Kult from little bit we have heard so far, from the teaser we heard as well as Databroth‘s demo.
> I haven’t heard anything that actually sounds like playable patches everything sounds like pads and washes of sound. I hope we hear more examples of what this synth is actually capable of besides pads and soundscapes.


Fair. But these teasers are literally for the tweakers who want to get an idea of what the oscillators are capable of. And Databroth is just Databrothing away and being as Databroth as it gets.

Presets are in the process of being made still. Somehow I am confident they’ll be cool 

Patience my Nuyorican drum padawan


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Which one was Sophie Marceau in?


Sophie Marceau ..... 💗 🎈 🥰 ..... _The World Is Not Enough _


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> I’m sorry to be uncharacteristically somewhat on topic but I’m having trouble understanding this new synth Kult from little bit we have heard.So far from the teaser we heard as well as Databroth‘s demo is pads and soundscapes.
> I haven’t heard anything that actually sounds like playable patches everything sounds like pads and washes of sound. I hope we hear more examples of what this synth is actually capable of. The genius behind the curtain for this synth has already released some amazing synths but so far I really can’t figure out what this new one is capable of in a musical context.


It is, at a minimum, a two oscillator subtractive synth.


----------



## Pier

kgdrum said:


> I’m sorry to be uncharacteristically somewhat on topic but I’m having trouble understanding this new synth Kult from little bit we have heard.So far from the teaser we heard as well as Databroth‘s demo is pads and soundscapes.
> I haven’t heard anything that actually sounds like playable patches everything sounds like pads and washes of sound. I hope we hear more examples of what this synth is actually capable of. The genius behind the curtain for this synth has already released some amazing synths but so far I really can’t figure out what this new one is capable of in a musical context.


Of course you can make any type of sound you want. The architecture is 2 complex OSCs + 1(ish) filter + voice inserts (distortion, comb filter, etc) + FX.


----------



## sostenuto

Duuno where this is going, but Abyss seemd to die early death with Novum release. Taking excess time deciding what Novum 'truly' brings, and wtf _ gotta join a KULT !! 

Maybe @ Pier got me long ago ? $99. gets Zebra Legacy _ something I may truly comprehend. 
Well _ maybe. 🤷🏻


----------



## Fleer

I’m much more into Abyss and Novum than I’m into Zebra or similar overly “knobby” synths, as I tend to get lost when I try to agree with the latter.


----------



## Databroth

Databroth said:


> this one is very fun, almost like a hybrid between generate and plasmonic
> but I don't want to directly compare it to either of those, they all have unique sounds and textures.
> While I mostly made pads and ambience for this demo, Kult is Dawesome's best synth so far for basses and leads


I actually already addressed the pads vs playable patches aspect

edit: what is kult? kult is a 2 osc synth, its oscilators are based off of strange attractors, like generate/ pendulate. but Kult also has fm and am per osc, as well, the filter section has 2 comb filters and 2 distortion stages giving it a pretty wide variety of oscillator shaping after generation/ modulation

I'll be making more content with it, showing some of the more aggressive basses and leads it is capable of, it's not for everyone, and neither is abyss or generate or plasmonic, but for creative sound design, it does offer quite a unique spectrum of sounds


----------



## Databroth

sostenuto said:


> Duuno where this is going, but Abyss seemd to die early death with Novum release. Taking excess time deciding what Novum 'truly' brings, and wtf _ gotta join a KULT !!
> 
> Maybe @ Pier got me long ago ? $99. gets Zebra Legacy _ something I may truly comprehend.
> Well _ maybe. 🤷🏻


did abyss "die an early death"?
is it dead? what do you mean by this?
that there haven't been updates recently? or that it doesn't work any more


----------



## sostenuto

Databroth said:


> did abyss "die an early death"?
> is it dead? what do you mean by this?
> that there haven't been updates recently? or that it doesn't work any more
> do you assume it's not being worked on as well


Do you know that Abyss is now selling actively ? Are you aware of Novum notable price deals ? 
Did I post anything about Updates ? What updates bring Abyss now into Novum /KULT interest ? 
What are your points intended to produce here ?


----------



## Databroth

sostenuto said:


> Do you know that Abyss is now selling actively ? Are you aware of Novum notable price deals ?
> Did I post anything about Updates ? What updates bring Abyss now into Novum /KULT interest ?
> What are your points intended to produce here ?


my point is that abyss isn't "dead" and that it's kind of a silly thing to say


----------



## Pier

Databroth said:


> did abyss "die an early death"?
> is it dead? what do you mean by this?
> that there haven't been updates recently? or that it doesn't work any more


I'm guessing @sostenuto meant in terms of interest.


----------



## sostenuto

Databroth said:


> my point is that abyss isn't "dead" and that it's kind of a silly thing to say


My point is _ where is this impressive developer going with such dramatic, rapid, new product Intro(s) ? Was impressed with Abyss _ in market with several new, capable softsynth products ( PhasePlant, Dune 3, Avenger, Pigments, Genrate, et al. 
Before adding Novum _ received broadbased kudos and interest. Moved to detailed Novum consideration, and KULT appears. 
You are respected, talented, reviewer, analyst, creator ! OTH _ many ( including myself ) are not softsynth 'deep-divers' _ yet learn, and enjoy, greatly with expansions by capable providers. How are these 'expansions' to be continued extensively, with somewhat similar new products _ flowing with such rapidity ?


----------



## tressie5

@Bee_Abney, next time you talk to Peter, can you tell him "rhythm" is misspelled in two places on the Kult interface? Thanks.


----------



## Databroth

Pier said:


> I'm guessing @sostenuto meant in terms of interest.


thats fair, but I also don't see that being the case, many people are still interested in abyss 
even over novum
they're pretty different synths, novum is definitely more of a deep dive designer tool, where abyss is better suited for quick sound layering and blending

I actually generally use abyss a bit more often for this reason, as it's kinda of a perfect "crayon box" of tonalities, for getting out quick ideas


----------



## sostenuto

Databroth said:


> thats fair, but I also don't see that being the case, many people are still interested in abyss
> even over novum
> they're pretty different synths, novum is definitely more of a deep dive designer tool, where abyss is better suited for quick sound layering and blending
> 
> I actually generally use abyss a bit more often for this reason, as it's kinda of a perfect "crayon box" of tonalities, for getting out quick ideas


This is useful, helpful differentiation, not so obvious to non-users, shallow-divers.
Current Abyss cost is attractive and deserves re-visiting. Perhaps sensed this Novum perspective _ hesitated _ not sure of reasons. 
Good to see you here, and interacting on narrow, focused topic ! ✌🏻


----------



## kgdrum

Pier said:


> Of course you can make any type of sound you want. The architecture is 2 complex OSCs + 1(ish) filter + voice inserts (distortion, comb filter, etc) +


Well obviously I’m not a programmer so for me I would prefer hearing presets & sounds that are more playable & show the synth as a non programming user would actually play it.


----------



## Pier

sostenuto said:


> many ( including myself ) are not softsynth 'deep-divers' _ yet learn, and enjoy, greatly with expansions by capable providers


My hunch is that represents probably +70% of the software synth user population.

Which is why IMO a good preset browser with descriptions, folders, third party banks, tags, etc, is really fundamental.


----------



## Fleer

I actually quite like the Databroth Artist pack for Abyss, especially the organic textures, which I highly prefer to the more aggressive patches.
Here's hoping his pack for Kult will favor the former at the expense of the latter, as I see Dawesome primarily as a purveyor of exquisite organic synths, without equal.


----------



## ShoeHorn

Everyone here is a bad bad influence on a poor budding sound designer and lover like myself.

Hence I've just gone and bought Abyss, Novum, Biotek2 and Spacecraft. Truly amazing sound design vehicles.
Plus at 50% off with bundle discounts to boot, how could I not??

Also picked up Lunacy Audio Cube bundle. Really quite insane.

Looks like I've joined the Dawesome / Tracktion Kult, that is VI-C


----------



## sostenuto

Fleer said:


> I actually quite like the Databroth Artist pack for Abyss, especially the organic textures, which I highly prefer to the more aggressive patches.
> Here's hoping his pack for Kult will favor the former at the expense of the latter, as I see Dawesome primarily as a purveyor of exquisite organic synths, without equal.


Agree wholeheartedly. OTH _ there are those of us _ who are irrationally impacted by things other than immediate, sensible analysis. With these rapid releases, user pricing is affected. Easy to go with Abyss now, Databroth /other expansions, most affordable cost.
BUT !!! _ using JRRShop.com reference _ Novum, + Databroth expansion is 'now' only ~~ $20. more.
How does one NOT see Novum as adding more value _ over longer term ?? 🤷🏻
Letting Abyss mature more fully, flow of more quality expansions, surely seems stronger path.

Is what it is, but I do not fault myself for analyzing carefully, being distracted with Novum release, now somewhat baffled with KULT tease. Honestly _ one could retrospectively look at u-he, and feel; what is truly different ? Only thing I can point to is timeframes, and stability over several years, not months.


----------



## sostenuto

ShoeHorn said:


> Everyone here is a bad bad influence on a poor budding sound designer and lover like myself.
> 
> Hence I've just gone and bought Abyss, Novum, Biotek2 and Spacecraft. Truly amazing sound design vehicles.
> Plus at 50% off with bundle discounts to boot, how could I not??
> 
> Also picked up Lunacy Audio Cube bundle. Really quite insane.
> 
> Looks like I've joined the Kult, that is VI-C


You nailed it !!!
LUNACY ! 🤪 

_( luv that Cube )_


----------



## Fleer

ShoeHorn said:


> Everyone here is a bad bad influence on a poor budding sound designer and lover like myself.
> 
> Hence I've just gone and bought Abyss, Novum, Biotek2 and Spacecraft. Truly amazing sound design vehicles.
> Plus at 50% off with bundle discounts to boot, how could I not??
> 
> Also picked up Lunacy Audio Cube bundle. Really quite insane.
> 
> Looks like I've joined the Dawesome / Tracktion Kult, that is VI-C


Now get Chop Suey, stat!


----------



## Peter V

tressie5 said:


> @Bee_Abney, next time you talk to Peter, can you tell him "rhythm" is misspelled in two places on the Kult interface? Thanks.


Ah, how embarrassing! Just changed it - thank you for the hint.


----------



## Peter V

Maybe I can share my own, personal view on Abyss / Novum / Kult and why they exist. 

*Abyss* - this is your synth if any of the following: 
* I love pads and drones 
* Gimme very organic sound!
* I want results fast, in almost no time
A synth with simple UI, specialised on organic sounds. It excels in pads and drones and gives you results in almost no time. 


*Novum* - is in the sweet spot between sampling and synthesis. Its for you if: 
* I love to mangle with samples 
* I want to turn a single sample into an expressive instrument
* I want to do sound design with new sonic possibilities 
As it works with samples it has a wide sonic range. 


*KULT *- is a "not so" classical synth for you if: 
* I love east-coast subtractive synthesis and classical synth sounds
* I love west-coast-buchla style synthesis 
* I want warm, organic and gritty sounds 

All three share two more things: 
* its for people who like to explore new things, fresh approaches 
* its for people who are very visually 

Each has its own approach, and with each I aimed to focus on doing one thing great. These creations do not aim to be a jack-of-all-trades, these are more "boutique-synths" from an "indie developer". Of course such an approach comes with pros and cons, and hence I always offer 90-days trial without any limitations (you just need to unlock / start trial) 

--- 
On the product lifecycle: my philosophy is that I create instruments to stay. So for each of my plugins I have a roadmap of (free) updates planned that extend their sonic capabilities. Also there will be more packs in collaboration with other sound designers. 

Abyss is 18 months in the market, and there is continued interest in it! I am still getting many messages from people who just discovered Abyss - as indie developer I don't have a massive brand (and I suck in marketing). There will be a free update with new sonic capabilities for Abyss in Q1 of 2023. 

Novum is less then 6 months old and is still in its very beginning! There will be multiple (free) updates, and especially there are two innovations that I am really excited to bring out, but this still requires a lot of work. 
--- 

I hope this helps to clarify - at least I wrote it with the best intentions!


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Duuno where this is going, but Abyss seemd to die early death with Novum release.


What??


----------



## Crowe

sostenuto said:


> Do you know that Abyss is now selling actively ? Are you aware of Novum notable price deals ?
> Did I post anything about Updates ? What updates bring Abyss now into Novum /KULT interest ?
> What are your points intended to produce here ?





sostenuto said:


> Agree wholeheartedly. OTH _ there are those of us _ who are irrationally impacted by things other than immediate, sensible analysis. With these rapid releases, user pricing is affected. Easy to go with Abyss now, Databroth /other expansions, most affordable cost.
> BUT !!! _ using JRRShop.com reference _ Novum, + Databroth expansion is 'now' only ~~ $20. more.
> How does one NOT see Novum as adding more value _ over longer term ?? 🤷🏻
> Letting Abyss mature more fully, flow of more quality expansions, surely seems stronger path.
> 
> Is what it is, but I do not fault myself for analyzing carefully, being distracted with Novum release, now somewhat baffled with KULT tease. Honestly _ one could retrospectively look at u-he, and feel; what is truly different ? Only thing I can point to is timeframes, and stability over several years, not months.



Right, Sos, I'm going to say this in the nicest way I can: Please stop.

I'm not sure what you think you are analyzing, but it has nothing to do with reality. Abyss, Novum and now Kult are 'boutique' sound design tools, Synthesizers with special engines. Nothing is dead and it's kind of ridiculous to claim that 'rapid releases' and 'lower prices' have anything to do with 'value over a longer term' in this case. Dawesome is a business and it needs to create new products. The older products do *not devalue *just because new, different products are released. They all exist next to each other. Every other developer works the same way. Audio Damage. Arturia. uHe. The list goes on.

But the very worst thing here is that you seem to think it's the job of the Sound Design Tool Developer to provide you with 'a flow of more quality expansions'. It's not. It's the job of a Sound Design Tool Developer to* Develop Sound Design Tools. You need to curb your expectations.*
Kilohearts outsources their pack development. Arturia outsources their pack development.

Third party pack development stalls when the shiny newness and hype of a product wears off, and this is what bothers you here. Abyss is neither new nor huge so pack development has now gone back to focusing the big or new synths. Diva. Pigments. Novum.

If you insist on remaining a preset surfer (which is fine, don't get me wrong) you should stay with the big synths, not go looking for new cool boutique ones expecting an unending influx of new preset packs. That's not how the market works. It's unfair to expect it to.

Also. Go get Syntorial and learn to make your own patches brother. Don't you think it's time? 

TL;DR: A lack of preset packs for a sound design tool doesn't mean it's 'dead'. If this lack is a problem to you, you chose the wrong tool. Or should learn to use it.


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Agree wholeheartedly. OTH _ there are those of us _ who are irrationally impacted by things other than immediate, sensible analysis. With these rapid releases, user pricing is affected. Easy to go with Abyss now, Databroth /other expansions, most affordable cost.
> BUT !!! _ using JRRShop.com reference _ Novum, + Databroth expansion is 'now' only ~~ $20. more.
> How does one NOT see Novum as adding more value _ over longer term ?? 🤷🏻
> Letting Abyss mature more fully, flow of more quality expansions, surely seems stronger path.
> 
> Is what it is, but I do not fault myself for analyzing carefully, being distracted with Novum release, now somewhat baffled with KULT tease. Honestly _ one could retrospectively look at u-he, and feel; what is truly different ? Only thing I can point to is timeframes, and stability over several years, not months.


I am sorry to say, as much as I value you as a fine forum member, I really have no clue what your issue is here Sos.

Your complaint sounds irrational and I suspect it has to do with you being overwhelmed with too many options rather than anything else? Abyss is very much alive, and just another great synth option to pick for those who want to, you know, make their own sounds. As you do with a synth.

Not all synthesizers will become preset platforms like Zebra, Omnisphere etc., nor do their developers aspire to create such a platform. I am doing my best here, but I have yet to hear one sensible argument out of you as to why you have arrived at your, frankly, somewhat weird conclusion. You being “baffled” by a new synth release, sounds absurd to me. Especially since the developer has no intention to abandon any of his earlier creations. It’s like he should have stopped developing because you somehow can’t keep pace?

Edit: I did not want to “pile on” but I did feel I was entitled to give you my honest view.

Now, as the thread starter, I suggest we let Peter’s fine analysis sink in, and conclude that Abyss is very much alive and he has every intention to expand and continually improve his creations.

Also, there is absolutely no need to “keep up” with every new new thing and buy any new synthesizer on the market or feel left out if you do NOT buy the shiny new one and instead use a ten year old piece of software. This forum (me included) sometimes seems to be ALL about getting (or even “needing” new stuff) but I hope we all realize that is NOT what it’s about. GAS is real and new tools are cool. But what matters most is making music or enjoying our musical instruments. I always get excited by new synths, especially cool, beautiful and creative ones like Peter’s. But noone should feel left out if they do not get, or cannot get, the latest thing, or when they suffer from option stress or whatever.

So I suggest we leave this discussion behind. Everbody is entitled to their opinions. But I feel all relevant angles have been presented here. My 2 cents.


----------



## Peter V

I can understand this very well! 

Sometimes its hard to keep up with all the new releases. I remember when I used to do a lot of music with sample libs - I felt overwhelmed with all the new stuff. In the end I often spent far too much time investigating all the new stuff, instead of making music with the ones I already had. 

Similar with modular synth gear! So many new modules, and never enough rack space. Or - after buying a new rack - too much rack space, but too little money. Or after buying too many racks - not enough long cables ... it always goes on and on like this. 

I think I can do a better job in explaining what each synth is excellent for ... my apologies! 
I just realised that I even did not put Novum on my webpage at all :-/ 
Also many people subscribed for my newsletter, but actually I never ever wrote a single one, because I don't like to be spammy. I do not appreciate the brands who send me a dozen newsletters a week, but sending not a single one in two years is maybe a bit too extreme.


----------



## Crowe

Peter V said:


> I can understand this very well!
> 
> Sometimes its hard to keep up with all the new releases. I remember when I used to do a lot of music with sample libs - I felt overwhelmed with all the new stuff. In the end I often spent far too much time investigating all the new stuff, instead of making music with the ones I already had.
> 
> Similar with modular synth gear! So many new modules, and never enough rack space. Or - after buying a new rack - too much rack space, but too little money. Or after buying too many racks - not enough long cables ... it always goes on and on like this.
> 
> I think I can do a better job in explaining what each synth is excellent for ... my apologies!
> I just realised that I even did not put Novum on my webpage at all :-/
> Also many people subscribed for my newsletter, but actually I never ever wrote a single one, because I don't like to be spammy. I do not appreciate the brands who send me a dozen newsletters a week, but sending not a single one in two years is maybe a bit too extreme.


Being a one-man operation is difficult at the best of times. I personally don't think one can find much fault in what you _do _manage to do.


----------



## Sombreuil

Peter V said:


> I can understand this very well!
> 
> Sometimes its hard to keep up with all the new releases. I remember when I used to do a lot of music with sample libs - I felt overwhelmed with all the new stuff. In the end I often spent far too much time investigating all the new stuff, instead of making music with the ones I already had.
> 
> Similar with modular synth gear! So many new modules, and never enough rack space. Or - after buying a new rack - too much rack space, but too little money. Or after buying too many racks - not enough long cables ... it always goes on and on like this.
> 
> I think I can do a better job in explaining what each synth is excellent for ... my apologies!
> I just realised that I even did not put Novum on my webpage at all :-/
> Also many people subscribed for my newsletter, but actually I never ever wrote a single one, because I don't like to be spammy. I do not appreciate the brands who send me a dozen newsletters a week, but sending not a single one in two years is maybe a bit too extreme.


I think time will prove that you are making the right choices. Novum is already regarded as one of the best, if not the best, granular synth. It does not overlap with Abyss and I like to think that Kult will have its own reason to exist.


----------



## danielh02

Peter V said:


> I can understand this very well!
> 
> Sometimes its hard to keep up with all the new releases. I remember when I used to do a lot of music with sample libs - I felt overwhelmed with all the new stuff. In the end I often spent far too much time investigating all the new stuff, instead of making music with the ones I already had.
> 
> Similar with modular synth gear! So many new modules, and never enough rack space. Or - after buying a new rack - too much rack space, but too little money. Or after buying too many racks - not enough long cables ... it always goes on and on like this.
> 
> I think I can do a better job in explaining what each synth is excellent for ... my apologies!
> I just realised that I even did not put Novum on my webpage at all :-/
> Also many people subscribed for my newsletter, but actually I never ever wrote a single one, because I don't like to be spammy. I do not appreciate the brands who send me a dozen newsletters a week, but sending not a single one in two years is maybe a bit too extreme.


I think you explained the three products very well in your previous post!

Visual exploration of sound design without getting too complex. Love Novum and Abyss and can't wait for Kult!!

Dan


----------



## Fleer

Peter V said:


> Maybe I can share my own, personal view on Abyss / Novum / Kult and why they exist.
> 
> *Abyss* - this is your synth if any of the following:
> * I love pads and drones
> * Gimme very organic sound!
> * I want results fast, in almost no time
> A synth with simple UI, specialised on organic sounds. It excels in pads and drones and gives you results in almost no time.
> 
> 
> *Novum* - is in the sweet spot between sampling and synthesis. Its for you if:
> * I love to mangle with samples
> * I want to turn a single sample into an expressive instrument
> * I want to do sound design with new sonic possibilities
> As it works with samples it has a wide sonic range.
> 
> 
> *KULT *- is a "not so" classical synth for you if:
> * I love east-coast subtractive synthesis and classical synth sounds
> * I love west-coast-buchla style synthesis
> * I want warm, organic and gritty sounds
> 
> All three share two more things:
> * its for people who like to explore new things, fresh approaches
> * its for people who are very visually
> 
> Each has its own approach, and with each I aimed to focus on doing one thing great. These creations do not aim to be a jack-of-all-trades, these are more "boutique-synths" from an "indie developer". Of course such an approach comes with pros and cons, and hence I always offer 90-days trial without any limitations (you just need to unlock / start trial)
> 
> ---
> On the product lifecycle: my philosophy is that I create instruments to stay. So for each of my plugins I have a roadmap of (free) updates planned that extend their sonic capabilities. Also there will be more packs in collaboration with other sound designers.
> 
> Abyss is 18 months in the market, and there is continued interest in it! I am still getting many messages from people who just discovered Abyss - as indie developer I don't have a massive brand (and I suck in marketing). There will be a free update with new sonic capabilities for Abyss in Q1 of 2023.
> 
> Novum is less then 6 months old and is still in its very beginning! There will be multiple (free) updates, and especially there are two innovations that I am really excited to bring out, but this still requires a lot of work.
> ---
> 
> I hope this helps to clarify - at least I wrote it with the best intentions!


Thank you for this perfect recap. Two adjectives are right up my alley: organic and visual. Both inherently (D)awesome!


----------



## Alchemedia

kgdrum said:


> Well obviously I’m not a programmer so for me I would prefer hearing presets & sounds that are more playable & show the synth as a non programming user would actually play it.


IOW, beating it into submission with two sticks?


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Are there any plans to update Chop Suey? The gui could use some work. And it would be really nice to have some clearly labeled and easily tweakable presets that make use of the self-oscillating filter for synthesis.

The gui seems to lack a way to adjust crossfade slope without changing position, fine tune parameters (moving by small values---pitch in particular jumps around far too much), or input exact values. Not that fun or interesting, but neither is struggling with the absence of these controls....

A bit more development of the self-oscillating filter (or presets and gui for it) might be more interesting. 

IDK if there's any truth to this rant on Reddit:


----------



## SupremeFist

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> fine tune parameters (moving by small values---pitch in particular jumps around far too much),


Agreed, this is annoying!


----------



## DoubleTap

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> IDK if there's any truth to this rant on Reddit:




Honestly sounds like nonsense to me. Kick doesn’t decay fast enough? Change the envelope then. A weedy kick is probably more to do with bad mixing or mastering than sound design.


----------



## Fleer

Got to say I’m quite looking forward to KULT, especially if it indeed proves to be a competitor to Rhizomatic Plasmonic.


----------



## Pier

DoubleTap said:


> Honestly sounds like nonsense to me. Kick doesn’t decay fast enough? Change the envelope then. A weedy kick is probably more to do with bad mixing or mastering than sound design.


Well, filters do not have a perfect response so it's true the tone is not a perfect sine wave when self oscillating. But is that better than using a sine wave? Heh, a matter of taste really.

But yeah, regarding the envelope it's just nonsense. Actually, analog filters need a bit of time to start self oscillating because that's produced with feedback inside the filer. It's much easier to get a snappy transient with a sine wave.


----------



## Databroth

Fleer said:


> Got to say I’m quite looking forward to KULT, especially if it indeed proves to be a competitor to Rhizomatic Plasmonic.


I'd say it's only marginally similar to plasmonic
much more of the core sound and synthesis relates to generate
really the only part similar to plasmonic is the comb filter
which is a bit more in depth in plasmonic

I have made presets for all 3 of these synths, so I'm not biased towards one over the others
but I wouldn't quite look at it as a competitor to plasmonic


----------



## Fleer

Databroth said:


> I'd say it's only marginally similar to plasmonic
> much more of the core sound and synthesis relates to generate
> really the only part similar to plasmonic is the comb filter
> which is a bit more in depth in plasmonic
> 
> I have made presets for all 3 of these synths, so I'm not biased towards one over the others
> but I wouldn't quite look at it as a competitor to plasmonic


Thanks. Maybe the next Dawesome creation following KULT ?


----------



## Cepheus

I think the oscillator display of Generate on the GUI may share some resemblance with KULT, but they seem very different to me. Generate starts off with a sine which is blended with a certain amount of input from the chaos oscillator. From what I can see in the video’s, KULT begins also with a sine or one of those math models but uses rather FM or PM to alter shape of the waveform. It may be possible that some outcome of the KULT waveform shaping is similar as what Generate can produce but the process is different. Further on in the signal flow, Generate is using the waveshapers and the low pass gate whereas Kult has normal (?) filters. Big difference is of course Generate has one oscillator whereas KULT has 2 oscillators to shape the sound. Looking forward to play with this synth, it sounds very different than Novum and Abyss.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Pier said:


> Well, filters do not have a perfect response so it's true the tone is not a perfect sine wave when self oscillating. But is that better than using a sine wave? Heh, a matter of taste really.
> 
> But yeah, regarding the envelope it's just nonsense. Actually, analog filters need a bit of time to start self oscillating because that's produced with feedback inside the filer. It's much easier to get a snappy transient with a sine wave.


It seems like it might be related to this in the description of Chop Suey: "Normal (digital) filters are often not suited to edit kicks, as they don’t respond fast enough to parameter changes. Chop Suey’s filter has been designed specifically for editing kicks: it reacts extremely fast to rapid changes of cutoff or resonance without introducing zipper noise or artefacts."

Reddit poster claimed the filter in Sonic Academy Kick (not sure if he only meant Kick 1, as opposed to their latest version, Kick 2?) is too slow... seems unlikely but IDK.


----------



## Databroth

Cepheus said:


> I think the oscillator display of Generate on the GUI may share some resemblance with KULT, but they seem very different to me. Generate starts off with a sine which is blended with a certain amount of input from the chaos oscillator. From what I can see in the video’s, KULT begins also with a sine or one of those math models but uses rather FM or PM to alter shape of the waveform. It may be possible that some outcome of the KULT waveform shaping is similar as what Generate can produce but the process is different. Further on in the signal flow, Generate is using the waveshapers and the low pass gate whereas Kult has normal (?) filters. Big difference is of course Generate has one oscillator whereas KULT has 2 oscillators to shape the sound. Looking forward to play with this synth, it sounds very different than Novum and Abyss.


so when I compare generate and kult, it is not to say they are identical, but that they are the only synths that use this form of synthesis. they are ofcourse different, but the tone generation on both synths uses the same method of strange attractors as a form of synthesis

after this there are many differences and changes, but they are still the closest synths in terms of similarity because they are they only ones using this method of sound generation
they are different flavors of the same thing

edit: (other tools exist using strange attractors as a form of synthesis, but these tools don't quite fit the same polish and scope of generate and kult and are not stand alone tools, but exist within reaktor or M4L
other than cadmium(which I'm only assuming uses strange attractors based on the claims of others)


----------



## doctoremmet

ChillyPop Phrases V1 for Unify


54 Phrases (164 Loops total due to many having up to 8 mix variations), Custom sampled 808 Style SUB Basses, a custom created 61 Sample Drum Kit with 55 Modern drum grooves and custom bell, keyboard and synth patches. Only Unify required to power this 427 Patch 5GB library!




www.pluginguru.com





Correct link - wrong summary 

$29 intro - ends December 11, 2022

“Dreamstate includes a 25 Patch library with embedded samples for Dawesome’s granular synth Novum, a 21 Patch library for Unify AND Novum and an INCREDIBLE 70 Patch library that requires only Unify 1.9.1. Each of the 3 libraries are a separate download so you download only the library you want to work with.

I first created interesting Pad oriented patches in Unify using Dawesome’s incredible Novum granular software synth – I saved the Unify patches and then sampled them to make the Unify only version where samples are played instead of the Novum Plug-in. I then pulled apart the Unify/Novum patches and saved out each Novum element as a separate Novum patch. If you only own Novum, then you would download the “Dreamstate for Novum” file and install that into the Novum User Patches folder so you can play those patches inside of Novum. If you own both Novum and Unify then you can download and install in Unify the “Dreamstate for Novum and Unify” and the “Dreamstate for Unify” libraries. ONLY the “Dreamstate for Unify” library is license protected. A detailed read me .pdf file is included with each of the downloads.

This library is a wonderful collection of beautiful and interesting pads that I created in Novum/Unify. I also created some SFX patches in Novum/Unify and then sampled the ocean and a babbling brook when staying on the Oregon coast recently with my daughter for Thanksgiving 2022 (in Manzanita). There are Bells, lots of BPM patches, Key and Latch patches and then a wonderful and unique collection of PADS. I almost named this library “MegaMagic Pads V3” because the sounds are very much in that spirit. If you have and love either MegaMagic Pads V1 or V2 then you will absolutely flip out over this library. These are some of the most incredible pads I’ve created to date.

Listen to the audio demos, watch the patch walkthru video (and other support videos) and you will be impressed with what YOU can do after adding this amazing library to your arsenal!”


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Databroth said:


> so when I compare generate and kult, it is not to say they are identical, but that they are the only synths that use this form of synthesis. they are ofcourse different, but the tone generation on both synths uses the same method of strange attractors as a form of synthesis
> 
> after this there are many differences and changes, but they are still the closest synths in terms of similarity because they are they only ones using this method of sound generation
> they are different flavors of the same thing


fwiw people on KVR are claiming otherwise: 

"Strange Attractor based synths or modulation devices have been around for ages. If you own Reaktor or Max (for Live) you can try them for free, they’re easy to find."

"Exactly, it's a concept that has been tried before and with several variations (like Cadmium)"

OTOH: "Generate can have some chaotic behavior, but its only two oscillators influencing each other and thus similar to a two body problem and calculatable, whereas strange attractors are not…"









KVR Forum: Dawesome Kult (Release Dec 22) - Instruments Forum


KVR Audio Forum - Dawesome Kult (Release Dec 22) - Instruments Forum




www.kvraudio.com





Glanced at lhi Cadmium synth product page, no mention of "strange attractors" or "chaos"... IDK.


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> ChillyPop Phrases V1 for Unify
> 
> 
> 54 Phrases (164 Loops total due to many having up to 8 mix variations), Custom sampled 808 Style SUB Basses, a custom created 61 Sample Drum Kit with 55 Modern drum grooves and custom bell, keyboard and synth patches. Only Unify required to power this 427 Patch 5GB library!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pluginguru.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct link - wrong summary
> 
> $29 intro - ends December 11, 2022
> 
> “Dreamstate includes a 25 Patch library with embedded samples for Dawesome’s granular synth Novum, a 21 Patch library for Unify AND Novum and an INCREDIBLE 70 Patch library that requires only Unify 1.9.1. Each of the 3 libraries are a separate download so you download only the library you want to work with.
> 
> I first created interesting Pad oriented patches in Unify using Dawesome’s incredible Novum granular software synth – I saved the Unify patches and then sampled them to make the Unify only version where samples are played instead of the Novum Plug-in. I then pulled apart the Unify/Novum patches and saved out each Novum element as a separate Novum patch. If you only own Novum, then you would download the “Dreamstate for Novum” file and install that into the Novum User Patches folder so you can play those patches inside of Novum. If you own both Novum and Unify then you can download and install in Unify the “Dreamstate for Novum and Unify” and the “Dreamstate for Unify” libraries. ONLY the “Dreamstate for Unify” library is license protected. A detailed read me .pdf file is included with each of the downloads.
> 
> This library is a wonderful collection of beautiful and interesting pads that I created in Novum/Unify. I also created some SFX patches in Novum/Unify and then sampled the ocean and a babbling brook when staying on the Oregon coast recently with my daughter for Thanksgiving 2022 (in Manzanita). There are Bells, lots of BPM patches, Key and Latch patches and then a wonderful and unique collection of PADS. I almost named this library “MegaMagic Pads V3” because the sounds are very much in that spirit. If you have and love either MegaMagic Pads V1 or V2 then you will absolutely flip out over this library. These are some of the most incredible pads I’ve created to date.
> 
> Listen to the audio demos, watch the patch walkthru video (and other support videos) and you will be impressed with what YOU can do after adding this amazing library to your arsenal!”



THX for reminder _ typically watch YT- Livestream Saturdays. Ordering Dreamstate now. ✌🏻


----------



## Bee_Abney

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> fwiw people on KVR are claiming otherwise:
> 
> "Strange Attractor based synths or modulation devices have been around for ages. If you own Reaktor or Max (for Live) you can try them for free, they’re easy to find."
> 
> "Exactly, it's a concept that has been tried before and with several variations (like Cadmium)"
> 
> OTOH: "Generate can have some chaotic behavior, but its only two oscillators influencing each other and thus similar to a two body problem and calculatable, whereas strange attractors are not…"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KVR Forum: Dawesome Kult (Release Dec 22) - Instruments Forum
> 
> 
> KVR Audio Forum - Dawesome Kult (Release Dec 22) - Instruments Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kvraudio.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glanced at lhi Cadmium synth product page, no mention of "strange attractors" or "chaos"... IDK.


This is an area that I don't know about. I know that Peter is too busy getting ready for release, but I expect he'll be able to explain more about how Kult works in time. Though Databroth probably has a good insight already having explored and used it.

And he can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think @Databroth meant that no other synths had ever used strange attractors, but rather that Generate and Kult were the only two within some kind of reasonable set for comparison. That set might have been just those synths that had already been mentioned, or something like those currently in development commercially, or some such.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> ChillyPop Phrases V1 for Unify
> 
> 
> 54 Phrases (164 Loops total due to many having up to 8 mix variations), Custom sampled 808 Style SUB Basses, a custom created 61 Sample Drum Kit with 55 Modern drum grooves and custom bell, keyboard and synth patches. Only Unify required to power this 427 Patch 5GB library!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pluginguru.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct link - wrong summary
> 
> $29 intro - ends December 11, 2022
> 
> “Dreamstate includes a 25 Patch library with embedded samples for Dawesome’s granular synth Novum, a 21 Patch library for Unify AND Novum and an INCREDIBLE 70 Patch library that requires only Unify 1.9.1. Each of the 3 libraries are a separate download so you download only the library you want to work with.
> 
> I first created interesting Pad oriented patches in Unify using Dawesome’s incredible Novum granular software synth – I saved the Unify patches and then sampled them to make the Unify only version where samples are played instead of the Novum Plug-in. I then pulled apart the Unify/Novum patches and saved out each Novum element as a separate Novum patch. If you only own Novum, then you would download the “Dreamstate for Novum” file and install that into the Novum User Patches folder so you can play those patches inside of Novum. If you own both Novum and Unify then you can download and install in Unify the “Dreamstate for Novum and Unify” and the “Dreamstate for Unify” libraries. ONLY the “Dreamstate for Unify” library is license protected. A detailed read me .pdf file is included with each of the downloads.
> 
> This library is a wonderful collection of beautiful and interesting pads that I created in Novum/Unify. I also created some SFX patches in Novum/Unify and then sampled the ocean and a babbling brook when staying on the Oregon coast recently with my daughter for Thanksgiving 2022 (in Manzanita). There are Bells, lots of BPM patches, Key and Latch patches and then a wonderful and unique collection of PADS. I almost named this library “MegaMagic Pads V3” because the sounds are very much in that spirit. If you have and love either MegaMagic Pads V1 or V2 then you will absolutely flip out over this library. These are some of the most incredible pads I’ve created to date.
> 
> Listen to the audio demos, watch the patch walkthru video (and other support videos) and you will be impressed with what YOU can do after adding this amazing library to your arsenal!”



At this point I'm going to surrender. While I think that referring to Novum as a granular synth leaves out its most interesting features, if Pluginguru is calling it a granular synth, I'm going to have to as well. I'm not pitting myself against Pluginguru. @sostenuto would stop speaking to me.


----------



## sostenuto

..... stop speaking _ as well as calling out neighboring bin-picking police 👮🏻 🚓


----------



## Databroth

Bee_Abney said:


> And he can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think @Databroth meant that no other synths had ever used strange attractors, but rather that Generate and Kult were the only two within some kind of reasonable set for comparison. That set might have been just those synths that had already been mentioned, or something like those currently in development commercially, or some such.


exactly, I'm not aware of every single synth and eurorack module and reaktor device ever
it looks like cadmium does use strange attractors to some degree
hell, Vital uses them for one of the lfo modes, should I include that in the list as well?
I looked into the reaktor user library, and sure, strange attractors are used there, but these aren't fleshed out synths with modulation systems, filters, effects and tailored to be used as an instrument

not saying they are bad, just kind of annoying to have to address every single weird obscure item that even superficially resembles the 2 products I'm comparing. I need to get better at wording my statements, but I don't enjoy having to sandwich everything I say between disclaimers

with any form of synthesis, there's always some unsupported hacked together tool that uses the feature as a single defining aspect, sometimes lacking modulation, filters, polyphony etc.
sometimes going so in to depth of every little variation this method can produce, as to almost be unusable for general sound design
it just doesn't make sense to include this stuff in comparisons of deeper more fleshed out tools

also it wasn't the main focus of my post
my post was responding to which synths we should compare Kult closest to
I did technically use the word "only" to describe those two synths using strange attractors
so yes I was technically wrong
but those posts aren't saying anything "otherwise" in regards to my main point, rather they are providing additional information in regards to the history of this form of synthesis

IDK I don't want to be misinformative, it wouldn't be fair to those reaktor designers if generate was claimed to be the first using the technique because some archivist found my vi-control post and took it for fact. and I'm often a bit loose in my research when responding to forum posts because I truly don't believe to be important enough to quote on historic software information


----------



## cedricm

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> fwiw people on KVR are claiming otherwise:
> 
> "Strange Attractor based synths or modulation devices have been around for ages. If you own Reaktor or Max (for Live) you can try them for free, they’re easy to find."
> 
> "Exactly, it's a concept that has been tried before and with several variations (like Cadmium)"
> 
> OTOH: "Generate can have some chaotic behavior, but its only two oscillators influencing each other and thus similar to a two body problem and calculatable, whereas strange attractors are not…"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KVR Forum: Dawesome Kult (Release Dec 22) - Instruments Forum
> 
> 
> KVR Audio Forum - Dawesome Kult (Release Dec 22) - Instruments Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kvraudio.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glanced at lhi Cadmium synth product page, no mention of "strange attractors" or "chaos"... IDK.


Generate is a synth I really tried to like - I own all other Newfangled Audio software - but I really can't.

It simply doesn't sound good to me. Which does not mean it's a bad synth.


----------



## Bee_Abney

cedricm said:


> Generate is a synth I really tried to like - I own all other Newfangled Audio software - but I really can't.
> 
> It simply doesn't sound good to me. Which does not mean it's a bad synth.


The demos for Spektralisk's Bleak soundset really appeal to me and keep leading me to look again at Generate. But other than that, I'm not sure I could get much use out of it myself. As you say, it's no point against the synth that I don't happen to like the sound of it much.

Of course, if Spektralisk can make it sound appealing to me, it must be possible to do it! Sadly, I have no confidence that I'll be able to do it myself...


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Bee_Abney said:


> The demos for Spektralisk's Bleak soundset really appeal to me and keep leading me to look again at Generate. But other than that, I'm not sure I could get much use out of it myself. As you say, it's no point against the synth that I don't happen to like the sound of it much.
> 
> Of course, if Spektralisk can make it sound appealing to me, it must be possible to do it! Sadly, I have no confidence that I'll be able to do it myself...


MPE presets already mapped to Timbre (/ "Slide") and Pressure (no Release Velocity though?) make that tempting.... 

The reverb in Generate is nice and goes well with the synth. I bought it a while ago and have been holding it in reserve for when I want something very (or literally) chaotic... haven't gotten around to using it in anything yet. Think I tried in a few things, or at least was going to....


----------



## Bee_Abney

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> MPE presets already mapped to Timbre (/ "Slide") and Pressure (no Release Velocity though?) make that tempting....
> 
> The reverb in Generate is nice and goes well with the synth. I bought it a while ago and have been holding it in reserve for when I want something very (or literally) chaotic... haven't gotten around to using it in anything yet. Think I tried in a few things, or at least was going to....


I have a number of synths I have been keeping around waiting to use them in something, including Repro 1 and 5, Lion and Thorn. I love them, they just haven't yet been the synth that ends up on a completed track. Generate is so odd and distinctive, it must be hard for many of us to find just the right place for it.


----------



## Databroth

I think a problem arises where many people think of synths as "new moogs, junos and prophets"
I hear "it sounds cold and digital" SOOO often as a critique for software, even on synths I personally would never describe that way. Theres a trade off between control and sweetspots, you don't loose any sweetspots with more control, they just become more of a balancing act to find.

I'll go back though, we have a natural inclination to try what we know on new tools, have you ever seen a guitarist pick up a bass for the first time? The same is true about synths, how many times I've watched professionals on youtube "try" a synth for 5 minutes, only to ditch it for what they know.
Was it a bad synth? no, they were just trying to replicate the same motions they know from what they learned on, the same knob positions, same tricks, and these don't always add up to the same settings when you consider range, control curve, and various other subtleties in each synth

understanding this about yourself is fine, if what you want is another juno, you can really narrow down your field of options. But synths like generate, lion, kaivo, abyss even, they just don't fill that particular spectrum, they fill new spectrums. and sometimes the role that spectrum takes care of isn't exactly obvious, a synth might have a particularly interesting top end texture, or gargle and rupture in a new way that works better than anything else, or have the ability to transform between a plethora of spectral colors with ease

but if you're just trying to make another lead or warm pad with everything, none of this will be useful to you

I will say, I've found absolute magic in both Generate and Lion, sounds that enter into analog territory and do it very well, and Kult can do this also.


----------



## Bee_Abney

I don't have much of a history with synths. It's true that I liked the synths on Rush's 80s work, but that was about it. About two years ago I got interested in using samples and some amount of time into that I decided that I wasn't completely comfortable with deep sampled emulations of acoustic instruments. Which got me into older-style samplers and synths. It's been a really enjoyable time of experimentation.

I think what draws me to more analog synth sounds is not so much a familiarity with those synth sounds as a more specific fondness for analog saturation. I'm not wholly sure.

There is also an element of wanting what I think of as timeless sounds. In this case, what I mean is sounds that don't immediately trigger associations with specific time periods either in reality or fiction. So sounds that could be a thousand years old, or from a thousand years in the future. This all gets complicated with synths which have such a recent history of development, and trigger associations with periods of living people's own lives.

My first, instinctive, response to this was to look to synthesis from the early to mid Twentieth Century. Sounds that weren't new during (many of) our life times. And then I just started following my ears. Plus, working with samples just somehow felt more instinctive to me, so I've stuck with doing a lot of sound design with samples.

But synths that can make sounds that are very different to what I've heard before always get my interest! And if it is wild and somehow 'wrong', so much the better. But I still struggle a bit to find out how to use it.

I'm... I'm talking myself into buying Generate again, aren't I?

Still, Kult seems like a good direction to head in for now. Everything about it seems right.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> I don't have much of a history with synths. It's true that I liked the synths on Rush's 80s work, but that was about it. About two years ago I got interested in using samples and some amount of time into that I decided that I wasn't completely comfortable with deep sampled emulations of acoustic instruments. Which got me into older-style samplers and synths. It's been a really enjoyable time of experimentation.
> 
> I think what draws me to more analog synth sounds is not so much a familiarity with those synth sounds as a more specific fondness for analog saturation. I'm not wholly sure.
> 
> There is also an element of wanting what I think of as timeless sounds. In this case, what I mean is sounds that don't immediately trigger associations with specific time periods either in reality or fiction. So sounds that could be a thousand years old, or from a thousand years in the future. This all gets complicated with synths which have such a recent history of development, and trigger associations with periods of living people's own lives.
> 
> My first, instinctive, response to this was to look to synthesis from the early to mid Twentieth Century. Sounds that weren't new during (many of) our life times. And then I just started following my ears. Plus, working with samples just somehow felt more instinctive to me, so I've stuck with doing a lot of sound design with samples.
> 
> But synths that can make sounds that are very different to what I've heard before always get my interest! And if it is wild and somehow 'wrong', so much the better. But I still struggle a bit to find out how to use it.
> 
> I'm... I'm talking myself into buying Generate again, aren't I?
> 
> Still, Kult seems like a good direction to head in for now. Everything about it seems right.


After this seemingly endless stream of synth prattling are you actually saying you like unusual synths but you don’t already have Generate?
I am so disappointed and embarrassed for you Beetrice,what a fu*kin poser.
😘


----------



## Technostica

kgdrum said:


> After this seemingly endless stream of synth prattling are you actually saying you like unusual synths but you don’t already have Generate?


It's called chaotic prose but is strangely attractive.


----------



## Bee_Abney

I feel chastened. I will listen to some Arturo O'Farrill until I've forgotten all about it.

For those of you who missed the subtext: I'm embarrassed that I prefer analog emulations and I'm trying to rationalise it as something other than nostalgia.


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> I feel chastened. I will listen to some Arturo O'Farrill until I've forgotten all about it.
> 
> For those of you who missed the subtext: I'm embarrassed that I prefer analog emulations and I'm trying to rationalise it as something other than nostalgia.


Likely to be '_*chased*_' regularly, while sporting that magical hat !!!
Chastened ?? _ not so much, me thinks.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> I feel chastened. I will listen to some Arturo O'Farrill until I've forgotten all about it.
> 
> For those of you who missed the subtext: I'm embarrassed that I prefer analog emulations and I'm trying to rationalise it as something other than nostalgia.


I don’t know if Santa-Con is an event in the UK like it is here in the USA. Well the day before yesterday Saturday was the day. Here in NYC probably a few thousand extremely drunken revelers go bar hopping drinking themselves into oblivion,a total stupor and act accordingly🤪 🤮
They all wear Santa hats and sometimes the entire outfit,most are in their early twenties they are so obnoxious,rude and so out of control many bars here in NYC will not let obvious Santa-Con participants into their establishments, it’s such a disgusting annual event.
The lowest of the assembled lowlifes and the scariest are the older participants still drinking like they are at their first frat party.
SO Bee if you were in town on Saturday why didn’t you ring me up?


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> I don’t know if Santa-Con is an event in the UK like it is here in the USA. Well the day before yesterday Saturday was the day. Here in NYC probably a few thousand extremely drunken revelers go bar hopping drinking themselves into oblivion,a total stupor and act accordingly🤪 🤮
> They all wear Santa hats and sometimes the entire outfit,most are in their early twenties they are so obnoxious,rude and so out of control many bars here in NYC will not let obvious Santa-Con participants into their establishments, it’s such a disgusting annual event.
> The lowest of the assembled lowlifes and the scariest are the older participants still drinking like they are at their first frat party.
> SO Bee if you were in town on Saturday why didn’t you ring me up?


I was going to call, but I got so drunk I couldn't make the phone work. Great fighting, though! I got me an ear!


----------



## krankyone

Bee_Abney said:


> I feel chastened. I will listen to some Arturo O'Farrill until I've forgotten all about it.
> 
> For those of you who missed the subtext: I'm embarrassed that I prefer analog emulations and I'm trying to rationalise it as something other than nostalgia.


I've spent so many years coming to terms with my soul wants what it wants. I've spent so many years coming to terms with everybody else has an opinion about it.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> I was going to call, but I got so drunk I couldn't make the phone work. Great fighting, though! I got me an ear!


Are you sure you weren’t mistaking your shoe for the cellphone again? 👞


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Are you sure you weren’t mistaking your shoe for the cellphone again? 👞


That would explain the boot print on my head.


----------



## Bee_Abney

krankyone said:


> I've spent so many years coming to terms with my soul wants what it wants. I've spent so many years coming to terms with everybody else has an opinion about it.


That's true. And there can be the internalised voices with which we judge ourselves.


----------



## Peter V

Bee_Abney said:


> That would explain the boot print on my head.


You life took inspiration from that song from the late eighties, right? 
"I sneak around the corner with a shoe-print of my lover, yeah"


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> You life took inspiration from that song from the late eighties, right?
> "I sneak around the corner with a shoe-print of my lover, yeah"


Those are 100% the real lyrics. Absolutely!


----------



## Fleer

Say what? Available at JRR Blowout?
https://blowout.jrrshop.com/tracktion-kult


----------



## Bee_Abney

Fleer said:


> Say what? Available at JRR Blowout?
> https://blowout.jrrshop.com/tracktion-kult


I believe this is a mistake. I don't think the synth is due to be released for another week.


----------



## Crowe

It looks like we've upgraded from 'Glitches' to 'Time traveling Glitches'.

Don't you just despise overachievers?


----------



## cedricm

Databroth said:


> I will say, I've found absolute magic in both Generate and Lion, sounds that enter into analog territory and do it very well, and Kult can do this also.


Examples would be very welcome!


----------



## doctoremmet

cedricm said:


> Examples would be very welcome!


Listen to emptyvessel’s LION presets. Just sheer beauty



I love this pack. Greg is one of the best synth programmers around!


----------



## Bee_Abney

cedricm said:


> Examples would be very welcome!


Here are a couple of Databroth's videos where he explores these synths.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Listen to emptyvessel’s LION presets. Just sheer beauty
> 
> 
> 
> I love this pack. Greg is one of the best synth programmers around!



Happy Birthday! I just realised that it is after midnight in Dutchpeopleland.


----------



## doctoremmet

Thanks my friend. Here’s a random birthday song I was just listening to.



Anyway. KULT will be one hell of a synth.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Thanks my friend. Here’s a random birthday song I was just listening to.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway. KULT will be one hell of a synth.



The guitar part on that track is amazing. The track as a whole could lack life if the production didn't leave all of the instruments so raw, and the vocal (smooth though the voice is) a little unpolished.

Also the lyrics are very evocative. I have lost a lot of years in my time... I lived some, but lost too many.

I hope the coming year is filled with health and music, and reasons to care.


----------



## cedricm

Bee_Abney said:


> Here are a couple of Databroth's videos where he explores these synths.



Thanks.

I already saw the Generate video. It doesn't convince me I need the synth - just got a loyalty coupon.

Not a judgment on the synth or on the video, it's just I don't see how it would fit in my synth collection better than other potential purchases. I did try it, but to be sure not for weeks.

P.S.
_Fully off-topic_
I learned today that one can host automate the bypass of Falcon's effects, which wasn't clear to me.

P.P.S Happy (20th ?) birthday Temme!


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> The guitar part on that track is amazing. The track as a whole could lack life if the production didn't leave all of the instruments so raw, and the vocal (smooth though the voice is) a little unpolished.
> 
> Also the lyrics are very evocative. I have lost a lot of years in my time... I lived some, but lost too many.
> 
> I hope the coming year is filled with health and music, and reasons to care.


That bit 4:20 in… those guitars are some of the most hauntingly beautiful yet painful sounds I’ve heard lately


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> That bit 4:20 in… those guitars are some of the most hauntingly beautiful yet painful sounds I’ve heard lately


Yes, I agree. Part of it is the art of just hitting the right sound and timing it right. It could be fast and complex or leisurely and simple. It doesn't matter, if you hit the moments right, it can pierce the skin and scratch the bone.


----------



## Bee_Abney

cedricm said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I already saw the Generate video. It doesn't convince me I need the synth - just got a loyalty coupon.
> 
> Not a judgment on the synth or on the video, it's just I don't see how it would fit in my synth collection better than other potential purchases. I did try it, but to be sure not for weeks.


I don't have it either. I've spent some time using Pendulate. It definitely has something. But the aspects of the sound that appeal to me most can be reached with other synths that I have (such as Massive X and Lion). Although, Spektralisk's Generate preset collection, Bleak, is something else. I do love them, from the demos. You may not, of course. But it is hard to justify buying a whole synth for the sake of the one soundset.



Well, maybe not that hard to justify...


----------



## Alchemedia

doctoremmet said:


> Greg is one of the best synth programmers around!


I concur!


----------



## sostenuto

No possible clue what this explosion of ???? can possibly be of serious benefit by 2024 -2025 ???
Hark back to childhood advice _ ~~ too much of anythiing is '_*not so good*_' . 
Hoping 'Tracktion' refines what /where this all leads.


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> No possible clue what this explosion of ???? can possibly be of serious benefit by 2024 -2025 ???
> Hark back to childhood advice _ ~~ too much of anythiing is '_*not so good*_' .
> Hoping 'Tracktion' refines what /where this all leads.


Confused again Sos?


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Confused again Sos?


Not so confused. Just following along, as creativity flows (_rapidly_) from Phase Plant, to Generate, to Abyss, to Pigments, to Novum, to ..... whatever is next.
Trying to learn from so many here with differing experiences. Circling slowly to alternative(s) such as 8Dio's - Sequential Prophet X.
Will add truly 'new' sensory enjoyment _ to endless VSTi - GAS 🤷🏻

** Envy your extensive synth background and related enjoyment.
Perhaps this is important way forward ?


----------



## Marcus Millfield




----------



## Braveheart

Fleer said:


> Say what? Available at JRR Blowout?
> https://blowout.jrrshop.com/tracktion-kult


What was the price showing?


----------



## Fleer

Braveheart said:


> What was the price showing?


If I remember well, a bit over $100.


----------



## Cepheus

Maybe there's a loyalty discount for Abyss and Novum owners. I think there was one when Novum came out.


----------



## Fleer

Apparently KULT will be half off at launch (Dec 22).


----------



## MisteR

Sounds great. Reminds me of Generate.


----------



## sostenuto

Fleer said:


> Apparently KULT will be half off at launch (Dec 22).


??? $109.50 now @ 'Blowouts' or maybe less on Dec 22 ?? Gotta wait 🤷🏻


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

sostenuto said:


> ??? $109.50 now @ 'Blowouts' or maybe less on Dec 22 ?? Gotta wait 🤷🏻


Of course that $109.50 *could* be half-off of $219... but that would be about $40 more than Novum.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## CrystalWizard

Databroth said:


> exactly, I'm not aware of every single synth and eurorack module and reaktor device ever
> it looks like cadmium does use strange attractors to some degree
> hell, Vital uses them for one of the lfo modes, should I include that in the list as well?
> I looked into the reaktor user library, and sure, strange attractors are used there, but these aren't fleshed out synths with modulation systems, filters, effects and tailored to be used as an instrument
> 
> not saying they are bad, just kind of annoying to have to address every single weird obscure item that even superficially resembles the 2 products I'm comparing. I need to get better at wording my statements, but I don't enjoy having to sandwich everything I say between disclaimers
> 
> with any form of synthesis, there's always some unsupported hacked together tool that uses the feature as a single defining aspect, sometimes lacking modulation, filters, polyphony etc.
> sometimes going so in to depth of every little variation this method can produce, as to almost be unusable for general sound design
> it just doesn't make sense to include this stuff in comparisons of deeper more fleshed out tools
> ...
> IDK I don't want to be misinformative, it wouldn't be fair to those reaktor designers if generate was claimed to be the first using the technique because some archivist found my vi-control post and took it for fact. and I'm often a bit loose in my research when responding to forum posts because I truly don't believe to be important enough to quote on historic software information


Yeah, the Reaktor UL is an unwieldy place, there be dragons...
I could definitely not say if there's anything in there that uses the same technology and is as full featured as Generate, there might be (?) but i realize that searching around for something that is readily available isn't conducive to music making. 
i do think it's very much important enough to use accurate facts especially if you have a following. As an engineer i'm often bummed out when i see misinformation about the discoveries and inventions of the past and the people behind them. 
And last i really like Generate and (completely other) i really like Novuum but my demo ran out...


----------



## CrystalWizard

Databroth said:


> I think a problem arises... and various other subtleties in each synth
> 
> understanding this about yourself is fine, if what you want is another juno, you can really narrow down your field of options. But synths like generate, lion, kaivo, abyss even, they just don't fill that particular spectrum, they fill new spectrums. and sometimes the role that spectrum takes care of isn't exactly obvious, a synth might have a particularly interesting top end texture, or gargle and rupture in a new way that works better than anything else, or have the ability to transform between a plethora of spectral colors with ease


+1


----------



## outland

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Of course that $109.50 *could* be half-off of $219... but that would be about $40 more than Novum.


Based on the other synth's prices, it's really impossible to even guess. I guess we'll know soon enough, but it would be nice to know tomorrow (as there are some other deals I'm looking at and need to allocate funds accordingly.)


----------



## Peter V

With the release of KULT coming nearer I need to start thinking about what will come next. 
My son worked out a sketch for a concept he likes me working on: an AI powered music robot. 
Not sure if I have the engineering skills to embark this project, by I find this truly innovative and start wondering how I would integrate this new device into my music workflow? 

What do you think?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> With the release of KULT coming nearer I need to start thinking about what will come next.
> My son worked out a sketch for a concept he likes me working on: an AI powered music robot.
> Not sure if I have the engineering skills to embark this project, by I find this truly innovative and start wondering how I would integrate this new device into my music workflow?
> 
> What do you think?


Well, if the robot is on wheels and doesn't need to sit down, I guess you just push your seat way back, drink some coffee, and let it work...

That's a fabulous picture. Now, be honest, you drew it yourself, didn't you?


----------



## Peter V

It is fuelled by bad energy and turns it into beautiful music - so you can put it on the battlefield to stop the war. I am afraid my "music studio" is too small for this robot. Also not so much bad energy around here - will need to get the specs to see what it does if there is a lot of positive energy around.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> It is fuelled by bad energy and turns it into beautiful music - so you can put it on the battlefield to stop the war. I am afraid my "music studio" is too small for this robot. Also not so much bad energy around here - will need to get the specs to see what it does if there is a lot of positive energy around.


The results could be dreadful!! Give it a try!


----------



## Bee_Abney




----------



## outland

Peter V said:


> It is fuelled by bad energy and turns it into beautiful music - so you can put it on the battlefield to stop the war. I am afraid my "music studio" is too small for this robot. Also not so much bad energy around here - will need to get the specs to see what it does if there is a lot of positive energy around.


Boy, we really do need one of these worldwide though. 

Your son is a genius!


----------



## jules99

Needless to say, it would be... Dawesome.


----------



## elucid

Bee_Abney said:


>



I’ve always loved that track but it’s so little known. Somehow I’m not surprised that you know it.


----------



## Bee_Abney

elucid said:


> I’ve always loved that track but it’s so little known. Somehow I’m not surprised that you know it.


It's a favourite of mine and tends to get me a bit teary. When I really want the tears to flow, I go for Lake Tahoe, The Ninth Wave and Breathing. When I'm finished crying: Get Out of My House helps sublimate sadness into rage!


----------



## TheUnfinished

Bee_Abney said:


>



I love that song. And the video has Hugh Laurie and Dawn French in it!


----------



## doctoremmet

Today is December 22 and that means it is KULT release day!

I noticed a JRR Shop ad with a 50% sale on all things Tracktion, including this new release so I am guessing the release price is going to be $65. I’ll post an actual link as soon as there is one.

Very excited about this one!


----------



## Bee_Abney




----------



## ir99

doctoremmet said:


> Today is December 22 and that means it is KULT release day!
> 
> I noticed a JRR Shop ad with a 50% sale on all things Tracktion, including this new release so I am guessing the release price is going to be $65. I’ll post an actual link as soon as there is one.
> 
> Very excited about this one!



...don't forget "GROUP" as the code. Bought! I clearly have no willpower...


----------



## doctoremmet

ir99 said:


> ...don't forget "GROUP" as the code. Bought! I clearly have no willpower...








Weird, it seems it hasn’t gone up for sale yet over at Tracktion themselves?


----------



## ir99

doctoremmet said:


> Weird, it seems it hasn’t gone up for sale yet over at Tracktion themselves?


Perhaps we're more excited about it than they are? 

Me? I'm dreaming of a world where there is modular integration between Abyss, Novum and Kult. Perhaps in the shape of a magical music robot. Who needs reality?


----------



## grabauf

Kult | Tracktion







www.tracktion.com


----------



## elucid

elucid said:


> Is that… a one note demo..?
> 
> Sold!


Bought.


----------



## Bee_Abney

50% off is rather more than usual for a intro. deal; but I can imagine that with everything else 50% at the moment, that it helps boost initial sales more.

Compared to its competition, I think that the full price of $129 is very reasonable. It would be worth a lot more to me; but to compete in the market, this seems about right.


----------



## Bee_Abney

I put this together very hastily this morning, using only presets and no external effects.

For full disclosure: I did some beta testing work on this synth and made a small number of presets. I'm using my own presets here. Just to be clear: there are some very brilliant sound designers who worked on presets too!


----------



## TheUnfinished

May have accidentally bought Kult, Abyss and Novum this morning.


----------



## doctoremmet

TheUnfinished said:


> May have accidentally bought Kult, Abyss and Novum this morning.


That is a great trio of very cool synths. I fear for my wallet in 2023, once you start to release soundsets for them….

Great endorsement though, seeing you adopt these. Your work never fails to inspire many of us on these boards!


----------



## LinusW

TheUnfinished said:


> May have accidentally bought Kult, Abyss and Novum this morning.


Happy accidents. Awesome.


----------



## doctoremmet

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> And is two oscillators really enough to get a good understanding FM synthesis, particularly what happens with more than two oscillators?


This is one of those questions that answers itself innit? 😂

KULT is a great synth and it produces lovely FM’ed sounds but if you want to learn “proper” FM (i.e. phase modulation synthesis in a DX7-like fashion) look elsewhere (such as Tracktion’s brilliant f.’em).


----------



## Paj

I've been digging back into SkannerXT and reminding myself of all the great stuff I already have . . . oh, crap, just bought KULT.

Is there a VI Anonymous?

Paj
8^|


----------



## SupremeFist

whoops, I bought Kult as well


----------



## TheUnfinished

doctoremmet said:


> That is a great trio of very cool synths. I fear for my wallet in 2023, once you start to release soundsets for them….
> 
> Great endorsement though, seeing you adopt these. Your work never fails to inspire many of us on these boards!


Don't get TOO excited. I must have more than 200 softsynths on my studio PC and have released sounds for about 15 of them.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

doctoremmet said:


> This is one of those questions that answers itself innit? 😂
> 
> KULT is a great synth and it produces lovely FM’ed sounds but if you want to learn “proper” FM (i.e. phase modulation synthesis in a DX7-like fashion) look elsewhere (such as Tracktion’s brilliant f.’em).


Yeah, and I don't see how the graphic display in Kult could really be more helpful for learning FM synthesis than the visualization tools in FM8, even for only two oscillators, so I deleted my post pretty quickly. On second thought IDK... "Ever struggled to really understand FM synthesis? Try it in KULT and you will be enlightened!"


----------



## doctoremmet

TheUnfinished said:


> Don't get TOO excited. I must have more than 200 softsynths on my studio PC and have released sounds for about 15 of them.


Good! 

I'll settle down then like a good lad, but not before I have wished you a lot of fun with your new instruments, whether you’ll ever release sounds for them or not! And happy holidays. And thanks for all the cool sounds for 15 other synths!


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm embarrassed that I prefer analog emulations and I'm trying to rationalise it as something other than nostalgia.


I think there's a reason why some stuff becomes a classic and it's not nostalgia.

People keep coming back to music from hundreds of years ago. Some films or books are so universal they will never go out of fashion. Etc. I think it's the same with the analog sound.

Sure in the 80s people got distracted with digital stuff but that decade was... weird. (I'm trying to be respectful ok?)

I can almost guarantee in 50 years nobody will be listening to say Skrillex.


----------



## doctoremmet

Pier said:


> I can almost guarantee in 50 years nobody will be listening to say Skrillex.


You sound like my dad in the 1980s 😂 yet here we are sampling cassette walkmen playing samples of an orchestra, because 45+ yo people with too much money need new orchestral samples catering to their nostalgia for 1980s artefacts such as wow and flutter.

Which I can assure you my dad NOR ANY OTHER SANE PERSON would have believed in 1985.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Pier said:


> I think there's a reason why some stuff becomes a classic and it's not nostalgia.
> 
> People keep coming back to music from hundreds of years ago. Some films or books are so universal they will never go out of fashion. Etc. I think it's the same with the analog sound.
> 
> Sure in the 80s people got distracted with digital stuff but that decade was... weird. (I'm trying to be respectful ok?)
> 
> I can almost guarantee in 50 years nobody will be listening to say Skrillex.


In the United States, 80's music is probably more popular than music from any other decade. (That's what a 2021 poll found, for example. I expect streaming numbers would say the same.)

IDK if it's because my early childhood was in the 80's, but digital synths just sound right. Many acclaimed analog synths and emulations sound bad to me. Especially the factory presets in Diva, M5, Knifonium... I wanted to like them, I tried listening and re-listening, but... I don't. They either sound cheesy in a bad way or just boring and bad. I don't like the timbres.

Of course, in the 80's digital synths were put through analog mixing and mastering chains... and I do like Acustica and other high quality analog emulations of mixing/mastering gear.

We're all influenced by nostalgia and personal experience in various ways. It can be very difficult to estimate the judgments of posterity.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Kult sounds similar to Generate, only perhaps better.

However... they both have this tonality or character to them that makes them... a touch nasal? Or is it that there's a thin layer of gauze over the top? Not sure I'm using the right words to describe. I like the sound but am still not loving the sound. Generate was easy to use, but Kult seems to have more flexibility.

I love the innovation, but it could be that the "house sound" of Dawesome synths just aren't my thing (I'm looking at Quanta 2 instead of Novum as I can get them for about the same price on sale).

That said, I highly recommend everyone try them out because my ears are weird and lots of people love these synths! Also, I want the developer to continue making money and making more synths!


----------



## doctoremmet

Well, I am also definitely way more into digital synthesizers compared to analog ones. I love the Yamaha, Casio and PPG stuff


----------



## vitocorleone123

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> In the United States, 80's music is probably more popular than music from any other decade. (That's what a 2021 poll found, for example. I expect streaming numbers would say the same.)
> 
> IDK if it's because my early childhood was in the 80's, but digital synths just sound right. Many acclaimed analog synths and emulations sound bad to me. Especially the factory presets in Diva, M5, Knifonium... I wanted to like them, I tried listening and re-listening, but... I don't. They either sound cheesy in a bad way or just boring and bad. I don't like the timbres.
> 
> Of course, in the 80's digital synths were put through analog mixing and mastering chains... and I do like Acustica and other high quality analog emulations of mixing/mastering gear.
> 
> We're all influenced by nostalgia and personal experience in various ways. It can be very difficult to estimate the judgments of posterity.


Side note: without knowing the details... a poll isn't generally a representative survey, and it could be that both the placement of the poll (the website or whatever) was frequented by certain types of people, and of those types of people, certain of those were more inclined based on demographics or characteristics to fill out the poll.

In other words: I'm highly skeptical the results generalize beyond those who took the poll and would be extremely hesitant to conclude the poll was accurate.


----------



## SupremeFist

Delighted to find that Kult has presets by Yuli Yolo, which increases its value to me by about 50%.


----------



## doctoremmet

SupremeFist said:


> Delighted to find that Kult has presets by Yuli Yolo, which increases its value to me by about 50%.


And then there are presets by Bee. Which I’m sure increases the value with an additional 50!


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> And then there are presets by Bee. Which I’m sure increases the value with an additional 50!


I was lucky to be included. My presets are, I hope, good enough; but definitely not the best that it comes with!

Except Chip Drums - it's a kick with the modwheel down and a snare with the modwheel up. Hours of fun for kids old and young!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

vitocorleone123 said:


> Side note: without knowing the details... a poll isn't generally a representative survey, and it could be that both the placement of the poll (the website or whatever) was frequented by certain types of people, and of those types of people, certain of those were more inclined based on demographics or characteristics to fill out the poll.
> 
> In other words: I'm highly skeptical the results generalize beyond those who took the poll and would be extremely hesitant to conclude the poll was accurate.



"YouGov polled more than 17,000 Americans about which time period they believe had the best music. ...

_*Methodology: *17,578 US adults, including 358 members of Generation Z (born 2000 or later), 3,704 Millennials (born 1982 – 1999), 4,102 members of Generation X (born 1965 – 1981), 7,814 Baby Boomers (born 1946 – 1964), and 1,532 members of the Silent Generation (born 1928 – 1945) were surveyed between June 4 – 6, 2021. The responding sample is weighted to be representative of the US population."








Americans say the 1970s and 1980s were the best music decades | YouGov


Among US adults overall, the 1970s and 1980s prove to be the best decades for music, with 21% and 22% of the vote, respectively.




today.yougov.com




_


----------



## Bee_Abney

It's a little thing, but a feature that makes me really happy about Kult is the assignable Pitch Wheel. You can alter the pitch bend from zero to ridiculous heights. And you can assign any parameters to it, as many as you like.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> "YouGov polled more than 17,000 Americans about which time period they believe had the best music. ...
> 
> _*Methodology: *17,578 US adults, including 358 members of Generation Z (born 2000 or later), 3,704 Millennials (born 1982 – 1999), 4,102 members of Generation X (born 1965 – 1981), 7,814 Baby Boomers (born 1946 – 1964), and 1,532 members of the Silent Generation (born 1928 – 1945) were surveyed between June 4 – 6, 2021. The responding sample is weighted to be representative of the US population."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans say the 1970s and 1980s were the best music decades | YouGov
> 
> 
> Among US adults overall, the 1970s and 1980s prove to be the best decades for music, with 21% and 22% of the vote, respectively.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> today.yougov.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


Another scientific poll from a highly respected source also found that the 80's were the most popular musical decade in 2021 (in the US):

"Americans say the 1980’s were the best decade for music

... This Ipsos poll was conducted August 27 – 30, 2021, by Ipsos using the probability-based KnowledgePanel®. This poll is based on a nationally representative probability sample of 1,016 general population adults age 18 or older. The sample includes 100 Gen Zers, 223 Millennials, 238 Gen Xers, and 455 Baby Boomers. Generation Z includes ages 18-25, Millennials include ages 26-39, Generation X includes ages 40-55, and Baby Boomers include ages older than 55."



https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/americans-favorite-decade-music


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> It's a little thing, but a feature that makes me really happy about Kult is the assignable Pitch Wheel. You can alter the pitch bend from zero to ridiculous heights. And you can assign any parameters to it, as many as you like.


I keep preaching .... 🎶 '_*Little things mean a lot*_' 🎵 🎹 ..... lotsa non-believers these days. 💔


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Weird, it seems it hasn’t gone up for sale yet over at Tracktion themselves?


Hmmm ...... My Cart has KULT + Generate @ $116.34 !! *No end ever to soft synth addiction !*
_Maybe today is first step ??? _🙏🏻

_Late last night_ - beat you guys to Kenopsia tho !! 🙃


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Hmmm ...... My Cart has KULT + Generate @ $116.34 !! *No end ever to soft synth addiction !*
> _Maybe today is first step ??? _🙏🏻


Do it Thom. Both are EXCELLENT.


----------



## Markrs

TheUnfinished said:


> May have accidentally bought Kult, Abyss and Novum this morning.


Awesome, I hope you enjoy them, and maybe feel inspired to create a patch or two 😀


----------



## Pier

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> "YouGov polled more than 17,000 Americans about which time period they believe had the best music. ...
> 
> _*Methodology: *17,578 US adults, including 358 members of Generation Z (born 2000 or later), 3,704 Millennials (born 1982 – 1999), 4,102 members of Generation X (born 1965 – 1981), 7,814 Baby Boomers (born 1946 – 1964), and 1,532 members of the Silent Generation (born 1928 – 1945) were surveyed between June 4 – 6, 2021. The responding sample is weighted to be representative of the US population."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans say the 1970s and 1980s were the best music decades | YouGov
> 
> 
> Among US adults overall, the 1970s and 1980s prove to be the best decades for music, with 21% and 22% of the vote, respectively.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> today.yougov.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


Americans do not represent culture at large and I'm fairly certain in 20 years the results would be completely different


----------



## doctoremmet

Anyone up for a little crowdfunded Christmas gift for emptyvessel? I want him to put his Kenopsia samples into NOVUM next year, so let’s give him the synth.


----------



## Peter V

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> "Americans say the 1980’s were the best decade for music


Hey folks, I was there, in the 80s, experienced it myself ... and I can tell you: land without water! 
When we think back to the 80s today we mean Kraftwerk, Joy Division, The Cure, Depeche Mode, New Order and other timeless classics. But the 80s were also the years of Rick Astly, Chris de Burgh (Lady in red), Starship (We build thius City) and countless songs from Modern Talking. Looking back, no one can find that seriously tasteful, can they?


----------



## Fleer

Rick Ghastly!


----------



## Fleer

doctoremmet said:


> Anyone up for a little crowdfunded Christmas gift for emptyvessel? I want him to put his Kenopsia samples into NOVUM next year, so let’s give him the synth.


I’m sure Peter will send him an nfr.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Anyone up for a little crowdfunded Christmas gift for emptyvessel? I want him to put his Kenopsia samples into NOVUM next year, so let’s give him the synth.


That sounds like a good idea! I think he'd like it as part of his processing chain at least. We just need a few others to join us.


----------



## doctoremmet

Fleer said:


> I’m sure Peter will send him an nfr.


But where’s the fun in that?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Peter V said:


> Hey folks, I was there, in the 80s, experienced it myself ... and I can tell you: land without water!
> When we think back to the 80s today we mean Kraftwerk, Joy Division, The Cure, Depeche Mode, New Order and other timeless classics. But the 80s were also the years of Rick Astly, Chris de Burgh (Lady in red), Starship (We build thius City) and countless songs from Modern Talking. Looking back, no one can find that seriously tasteful, can they?


Behold, @Peter V, the man with the maths, the sir with the synthesis, the automator of automations and the maestro of modulation!

Congratulations on a magnificent work of art!


----------



## sostenuto

Fleer said:


> I’m sure Peter will send him an nfr.


Novum ??? Try'n to recall ...... Joined KULT and fell into Abyss. A bit foggy. 🙃 🙄


----------



## doctoremmet

Peter V said:


> Modern Talking


I now want to try and sample this piano in NOVUM. I also hope Spitfire will do a Modern Talking Composer Toolkit in 2023.


----------



## SupremeFist

Peter V said:


> Hey folks, I was there, in the 80s, experienced it myself ... and I can tell you: land without water!
> When we think back to the 80s today we mean Kraftwerk, Joy Division, The Cure, Depeche Mode, New Order and other timeless classics. But the 80s were also the years of Rick Astly, Chris de Burgh (Lady in red), Starship (We build thius City) and countless songs from Modern Talking. Looking back, no one can find that seriously tasteful, can they?


Man, I love your work, but now you have insulted my countryman Rick Astley I'm going to have to demand refunds on all the instruments of yours I've bought.


----------



## Bee_Abney

SupremeFist said:


> Man, I love your work, but now you have insulted my countryman Rick Astley I'm going to have to demand refunds on all the instruments of yours I've bought.


Rick Astley is a legend. Like Candyman and Bloody Mary.


----------



## SupremeFist

Bee_Abney said:


> Rick Astley is a legend. Like Candyman and Bloody Mary.


LEDGE.


----------



## doctoremmet

SupremeFist said:


> Man, I love your work, but now you have insulted my countryman Rick Astley I'm going to have to demand refunds on all the instruments of yours I've bought.








doctoremmet denounces Dawesome


A recent scandal involves Peter V of Dawesome fame insulting a revered British artist. This in turn has lead to a falling out between V and doctoremmet. More about this here.



r.mtdv.me


----------



## outland

Pier said:


> I can almost guarantee in 50 years nobody will be listening to say Skrillex.


Who?


----------



## DoubleTap

Peter V said:


> Hey folks, I was there, in the 80s, experienced it myself ... and I can tell you: land without water!
> When we think back to the 80s today we mean Kraftwerk, Joy Division, The Cure, Depeche Mode, New Order and other timeless classics. But the 80s were also the years of Rick Astly, Chris de Burgh (Lady in red), Starship (We build thius City) and countless songs from Modern Talking. Looking back, no one can find that seriously tasteful, can they?



This is a correct opinion and should be stickied.

Although now I have “Built This City” going round my head and I’m absentmindedly trying to pop a non-existent chin zit.


----------



## Pier

outland said:


> Who?


Exactly!


----------



## doctoremmet

Pier said:


> Exactly!


Ah, the ole sample size n=2 agreement. A classic innit. Where I live people typically start a new church when this happens.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Perhaps we can all agree that a _lot_ of music came out in the 80s; but not as much as comes out now.


----------



## outland

DoubleTap said:


> This is a correct opinion and should be stickied.
> 
> Although now I have “Built This City” going round my head and I’m absentmindedly trying to pop a non-existent chin zit.


There may be four reasons why the 80's are remembered so fondly by those taking this poll (and I actually don't doubt the poll _per se_; it is, after all, 1) not directed at musicians, and 2) asking those taking the poll to remember what are probably very fuzzy feelings from the period. I do know that when teaching 6-8 graders only three years ago (before my COVID impacted retirement,) I heard many of my students (who didn't even have memories upon which to draw) voice envy for those who actually grew up with the music from that decade. Sometimes, it was mentioned exactly in that manner ("They had ALL of the good music!"), other times, it was in direct relation to an artist. I distinctly recall being eminently impressed by an 8th grader who could actually intelligently discuss Stevie Ray Vaughan with me. She wasn't even a guitarist. WHOA!

But back to my point; the four reasons for why many may remember the 80's so fondly are all albums (in no particular order and three of which aren't even American[!]):

1. Thriller

2. Synchonicity

3. So

4. Joshua Tree

I honestly think that the fondness for the period has to do with these albums and not just the tunes on them, but the production values that were enshrined as a result of the efforts of the producers behind each of these (perhaps for better or worse.) They were all both an example of a peak of maturity in tonal engineering paradigms and set in motion something of a revolution that is still felt strongly in both the industry and culture. The production techniques had finally become an integral part of the composition of the final musical work.

FWIW.


----------



## Bee_Abney

outland said:


> There may be four reasons why the 80's are remembered so fondly by those taking this poll (and I actually don't doubt the poll _per se_; it is, after all, 1) not directed at musicians, and 2) asking those taking the poll to remember what are probably very fuzzy feelings from the period. I do know that when teaching 6-8 graders only three years ago (before my COVID impacted retirement,) I heard many of my students (who didn't even have memories upon which to draw) voice envy for those who actually grew up with the music from that decade. Sometimes, it was mentioned exactly in that manner ("They had ALL of the good music!"), other times, it was in direct relation to an artist (I distinctly being eminently impressed by an 8th grader who could actually discuss Stevie Ray Vaughan with me. WHOA!)
> 
> But back to my point; the four reasons for why many may remember the 80's so fondly are all albums (in no particular order and three of which aren't even American[!]):
> 
> 1. Thriller
> 
> 2. Synchonicity
> 
> 3. So
> 
> 4. Joshua Tree
> 
> I honestly think that the fondness for the period has to do with these albums and not just the tunes on them, but the production values that were enshrined as a result of the efforts of the producers behind each of these (perhaps for better or worse.) They were all both an example of a peak of maturity in tonal engineering paradigms and set in motion something of a revolution that is still felt strongly. The production techniques had become an integral part of the composition of the final musical work.
> 
> FWIW.


I'm not agreeing or disagreeing; I'm just enjoying the discussion.

I genuinely don't know the more mainstream music of the 80s very well. Growing up, I was mainly listening to heavy metal and hard rock, and largely drawn from the 70s or bands who started in the 70s or earlier. With the exception of Kate bush (who started in the 70s), I was never very attentive to the music that generally gets discussed in relation to the 80s or 90s. I had listened to a fair amount of popular music (not necessarily pop) from the 60s and earlier, thanks to my parents.


----------



## doctoremmet

Playing with KULT, Dawesome's Newest Synth


Kult is the latest synth from the creative mind of Dawesome, it is based on Strange Attractors, a mathematic form of organized chaos. While previous Dawesome...




www.youtube.com


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Playing with KULT, Dawesome's Newest Synth
> 
> 
> Kult is the latest synth from the creative mind of Dawesome, it is based on Strange Attractors, a mathematic form of organized chaos. While previous Dawesome...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com


Perfect!


----------



## SupremeFist

outland said:


> There may be four reasons why the 80's are remembered so fondly by those taking this poll (and I actually don't doubt the poll _per se_; it is, after all, 1) not directed at musicians, and 2) asking those taking the poll to remember what are probably very fuzzy feelings from the period. I do know that when teaching 6-8 graders only three years ago (before my COVID impacted retirement,) I heard many of my students (who didn't even have memories upon which to draw) voice envy for those who actually grew up with the music from that decade. Sometimes, it was mentioned exactly in that manner ("They had ALL of the good music!"), other times, it was in direct relation to an artist. I distinctly being eminently impressed by an 8th grader who could actually intelligently discuss Stevie Ray Vaughan with me. WHOA!
> 
> But back to my point; the four reasons for why many may remember the 80's so fondly are all albums (in no particular order and three of which aren't even American[!]):
> 
> 1. Thriller
> 
> 2. Synchonicity
> 
> 3. So
> 
> 4. Joshua Tree
> 
> I honestly think that the fondness for the period has to do with these albums and not just the tunes on them, but the production values that were enshrined as a result of the efforts of the producers behind each of these (perhaps for better or worse.) They were all both an example of a peak of maturity in tonal engineering paradigms and set in motion something of a revolution that is still felt strongly. The production techniques had become an integral part of the composition of the final musical work.
> 
> FWIW.


Those are all great albums but for me "the 1980s" is Yazoo, Duran Duran, A-Ha etc. (Plus Van Halen and Guns N' Roses.)


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm not agreeing or disagreeing; I'm just enjoying the discussion.
> 
> I genuinely don't know the more mainstream music of the 80s very well. Growing up, I was mainly listening to heavy metal and hard rock, and largely drawn from the 70s or bands who started in the 70s or earlier. With the exception of Kate bush (who started in the 70s), I was never very attentive to the music that generally gets discussed in relation to the 80s or 90s. I had listened to a fair amount of popular music (not necessarily pop) from the 60s and earlier, thanks to my parents.


Bloodrock D.O.A. --- now we're talkin !


----------



## Alchemedia

Pier said:


> I can almost guarantee in 50 years nobody will be listening to say Skrillex.


You apparently haven't heard his new Christmas album.


----------



## doctoremmet

To me the 1980s are My Bloody Valentine's debut album, Scritti Politti's Cupid & Psyche, Joy Division's sophomore album, New Order, Killing Joke, Jesus & Mary Chain, Cocteau Twins. Talking Heads. King Crimson. And this song.



All culminating in MBV’s Loveless at the beginning of the true best decade for music: the 1990s.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> To me the 1980s are My Bloody Valentine's debut album, Scritti Politti's Cupid & Psyche, Joy Division's sophomore album, New Order, Killing Joke, Jesus & Mary Chain, Cocteau Twins. Talking Heads. King Crimson. And this song.
> 
> 
> 
> All culminating in MBV’s Loveless at the beginning of the true best decade for music: the 1990s.



Released in 1980. Technically the '70s.

But it is fabulous!


----------



## SupremeFist

Bee_Abney said:


> Released in 1980. Technically the '70s.


Oh god you're one of those Decade Truthers.


----------



## doctoremmet

SupremeFist said:


> Oh god you're one of those Decade Truthers.


She regularly posts pedantic corrections on her own channel on Decade Truth Social.


----------



## Bee_Abney

I have been destroyed!


----------



## doctoremmet

Maybe it’s time to get this thread back on topic?

KULT was released today people!
Let’s try and get this discussion on the rails again.

Brief overview:



Website:






Kult | Tracktion







www.tracktion.com





Currently best deal is available over at JRR Shop with coupon code GROUP ($54).


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## Bee_Abney

How does Kult compare to Buchlas?

Also, why are Dawesome’s synths so easy to use? Peter spends a lot of time working on this, so I’m sure he’d be interested in feedback.


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## Alchemedia

DoubleTap said:


> This is a correct opinion and should be stickied.
> 
> Although now I have “Built This City” going round my head and I’m absentmindedly trying to pop a non-existent chin zit.


Grace Slick recently said rock stars should retire before they turn 40.



doctoremmet said:


> To me the 1980s are My Bloody Valentine's debut album, Scritti Politti's Cupid & Psyche, Joy Division's sophomore album, New Order, Killing Joke, Jesus & Mary Chain, Cocteau Twins. Talking Heads. King Crimson. And this song.
> 
> 
> 
> All culminating in MBV’s Loveless at the beginning of the true best decade for music: the 1990s.



Don't forget Bowie's "Scary Monsters...", Talk, Talk, Radiohead, Psychedelic Furs, Ultravox/John Foxx, Wire, David Sylvian, The Pop Group, Bauhaus, Magazine, REM, XTC, The Replacements, Siouxie & the Banchees, PIL, Nirvana, Pixies, Gary Numan, etc.


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## doctoremmet

Alchemedia said:


> Don't forget Bowie's "Scary Monsters...", Talk, Talk, Radiohead, Psychedelic Furs, Ultravox, David Sylvian, The Pop Group, Bauhaus, Magazine, REM, XTC, The Replacements, Siouxie & the Banchees, PIL, Nirvana, Pixies, Gary Numan, etc.


I absolutely adore every single one of those artists and could have easily mentioned them instead. Huge Bauhaus fan here! Yeah we knew. Really? How’d you tell?


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## doctoremmet

I also really loved My Life With A Thrill Kill KULT. Great band.


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## Alchemedia

KULT is a unique and inspiring synth!


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## Bee_Abney

As for the incredible ease of use of Kult, I think that part of it is that there is never too much on a screen at once. Another is the incredible visual feedback so that you know what is happening - and the ease of checking that. For instance, click on a parameter and you can see what is modulating it and the degree to which it is doing so. And another feature is that while there are lots of 'tabs' for different features, the way of moving between them is extremely intuitive. Click on something, and its page opens up. If you are on a modulators page, you have a list of what it is modulating. Click on an item on that list to have the option to either remove or move to the page of that parameter.

Plus, it's mostly black. And black's slimming. Everyone knows that.


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## AnhrithmonGelasma

vitocorleone123 said:


> Kult sounds similar to Generate, only perhaps better.
> 
> However... they both have this tonality or character to them that makes them... a touch nasal? Or is it that there's a thin layer of gauze over the top? Not sure I'm using the right words to describe. I like the sound but am still not loving the sound. Generate was easy to use, but Kult seems to have more flexibility.
> 
> I love the innovation, but it could be that the "house sound" of Dawesome synths just aren't my thing (I'm looking at Quanta 2 instead of Novum as I can get them for about the same price on sale).
> 
> That said, I highly recommend everyone try them out because my ears are weird and lots of people love these synths! Also, I want the developer to continue making money and making more synths!


That "layer of gauze over the top" is why I don't like the demos of Abyss I've heard. Novum has something similar but I like it. For Kult---listening to the audio demos, for most of the presets I keep thinking it's very close to something I'd love and could probably tweak to get there (if need be with additional plugins), but the top end is overly smooth, not noisy enough, lacking in bite... I do like some of the presets though.


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## Bee_Abney

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> That "layer of gauze over the top" is why I don't like the demos of Abyss I've heard. Novum has something similar but I like it. For Kult---listening to the audio demos, for most of the presets I keep thinking it's very close to something I'd love and could probably tweak to get there (if need be with additional plugins), but the top end is overly smooth, not noisy enough, lacking in bite... I do like some of the presets though.


I get what you mean. But with a fully functional ninety-day trial period, it could be worth a try to see if it falls more to the Abyss side or more to the Novum side in its sound.


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## sostenuto

vitocorleone123 said:


> Side note: without knowing the details... a poll isn't generally a representative survey, and it could be that both the placement of the poll (the website or whatever) was frequented by certain types of people, and of those types of people, certain of those were more inclined based on demographics or characteristics to fill out the poll.
> 
> In other words: I'm highly skeptical the results generalize beyond those who took the poll and would be extremely hesitant to conclude the poll was accurate.


If KULT can work as alternative to Generate > hope there is/will be option for 'Bleak' exapansion !!


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## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> If KULT can work as alternative to Generate > hope there is/will be option for 'Bleak' exapansion !!


Is there something you want to talk about? Feeling a bit down... a bit... Bleak?


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## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Is there something you want to talk about? Feeling a bit down... a bit... Bleak?


Maybe a bit 'holidays' chubby ....... after your ' dark, thinning ' post. 🦍


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## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Maybe a bit 'holidays' chubby ....... after your ' dark, thinning ' post. 🦍


Oh, I understand that all too well!


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## Fleer

So I’m the only one who still loves Dire Straits and Supertramp.


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## rhizomusicosmos

DoubleTap said:


> This is a correct opinion and should be stickied.
> 
> Although now I have “Built This City” going round my head and I’m absentmindedly trying to pop a non-existent chin zit.


This should help with that:


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## sostenuto

Fleer said:


> So I’m the only one who still loves Dire Straits and Supertramp.


 
Lessee ..... Dire Straits, Brothers in Arms, Making Movies, Love over Gold, ..........

Crime of the Century, Even in the Quietest Moments, Crisis ? What Crisis ?, Famous Last Words .......

Try to keep my Tidal playlists complete ......... 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Akoustecx

Fleer said:


> So I’m the only one who still loves Dire Straits and Supertramp.


Dude, you've got to stop with this virtue telegraph roading! People like you will never go further, or back!


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## Bee_Abney

Now I really want to do a cover of Private Investigations by Dire Straits, performed entirely with Kult. But at three times the length.


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## Fleer

Akoustecx said:


> Dude, you've got to stop with this virtue telegraph roading! People like you will never go further, or back!


Yeah baby. Mighty fine where I’m at


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## Akoustecx

Fleer said:


> Yeah baby. Mighty fine where I’m at


Who knew that a dash of prog, a smidgeon of Springsteen and a goodly pinch of Dylan would lead to a road well travelled.
I'm heading off to amble down it again, if you'd care to join me, you're more than welcome.


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## Akoustecx

On a slightly more on topic note, I'll carry on demoing Novum in 15 minutes.


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## outland

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm not agreeing or disagreeing; I'm just enjoying the discussion.
> 
> I genuinely don't know the more mainstream music of the 80s very well. Growing up, I was mainly listening to heavy metal and hard rock, and largely drawn from the 70s or bands who started in the 70s or earlier. With the exception of Kate bush (who started in the 70s), I was never very attentive to the music that generally gets discussed in relation to the 80s or 90s. I had listened to a fair amount of popular music (not necessarily pop) from the 60s and earlier, thanks to my parents.





doctoremmet said:


> To me the 1980s are My Bloody Valentine's debut album, Scritti Politti's Cupid & Psyche, Joy Division's sophomore album, New Order, Killing Joke, Jesus & Mary Chain, Cocteau Twins. Talking Heads. King Crimson. And this song.
> 
> 
> 
> All culminating in MBV’s Loveless at the beginning of the true best decade for music: the 1990s.



I'm not great with the "mainstream" music of the 80's either; I'd been a jazz head through the 70's after first hearing John Coltrane in 1972 as a ninth grade tenor saxophonist (followed by the typical suspects through the better parts of the fusion era and getting frustrated by the tunnel vision of Wynton's "Jazz Nazis.") Coltrane and a Stan Kenton concert (also 1972) "sold" me. In a real sense, the students I taught in my first job as a Junior High music teacher (1983) taught me about mainstream rock/pop. I was so cloistered musically (though in college, I did add classical music, including 20th Century Art Music, to my listening repertoire,) that I only realized who Jimi Hendrix was through the compositions of Gil Evans. Everything was filtered through jazz.

Why I mentioned the four albums I did is simply because of the emergence of the importance of production values as a contributing force in its own right; I am not (I hope) ignoring Bowie, Van Halen, Guns N' Roses, or Talking Heads and the like. I do realize that they all had a significant place in the music of eighties. For this little grey fox, however, the music "on the recording" finally began to sound good in its own right during the eighties. Before that point, it seemed that I had to endure the recording to get to the music underneath. Sometime during the eighties (and across all genres in which I had an interest,) the pain ceased. And I so appreciated it. This is not to say that everything before the eighties was worthless in terms of production values (far from it!), but the "pickings" were kind of far and few between. Several examples influenced my values. The sound of the drum sets (particularly those recorded in Rudy Van Gelder's studio) are still with me. Keith Jarrett's Steinway sound on ECM's solo recordings from the very first Facing You is indelibly etched in my brain, especially given the fact that Keith hand-picked the Steinway Model D that my high school owned; I loved to stay after school and sneak into the chorus room to play it for hours after everyone left for the day. I was transported to bliss. What an incredible instrument. I have "trouble" with the sound of anything but Steinways since.


----------



## outland

Bee_Abney said:


> How does Kult compare to Buchlas?
> 
> Also, why are Dawesome’s synths so easy to use? Peter spends a lot of time working on this, so I’m sure he’d be interested in feedback.


I pretty sure it's his GUIs (at least, in part); they are beautifully and simply laid out and very clear in what they represent. The visual feedback is almost _vis a vis_.

He should be congratulated on this. It's amazing how much is represented.


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## b_elliott

Bee_Abney said:


> Is there something you want to talk about? Feeling a bit down... a bit... Bleak?


Now is the wrong time to be reminded of _Bleak House 
Gas looming through the fog in divers places in the streets, much as the sun may, from the spongey fields, be seen to loom by husbandman and ploughboy. Most of the shops lighted two hours before their time-as the gas seems to know, for it has a haggard and unwilling look._

Yet here we are....
heehee.


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## Bee_Abney

b_elliott said:


> Now is the wrong time to be reminded of _Bleak House
> Gas looming through the fog in divers places in the streets, much as the sun may, from the spongey fields, be seen to loom by husbandman and ploughboy. Most of the shops lighted two hours before their time-as the gas seems to know, for it has a haggard and unwilling look._
> 
> Yet here we are....
> heehee.


It's a fine novel. The only full Dickens novel I've read. Other that, just A Christmas Carol and some short stories. 'The Signalman' is wonderful.

But Dickens at Christmas? Nothing could be more appropriate! Even with unwilling gas; something I know a lot about every time I have a five bean chilli.


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## b_elliott

Bee_Abney said:


> It's a fine novel. The only full Dickens novel I've read. Other that, just A Christmas Carol and some short stories. 'The Signalman' is wonderful.
> 
> But Dickens at Christmas? Nothing could be more appropriate! Even with unwilling gas; something I know a lot about every time I have a five bean chilli.


True that. Not to drive the thread off course, _Oliver Twist_ is a stellar read. I read it to my Dad when he was in the hospital -- the birth of Oliver (Ch 1) gave us a chuckle. Cheers, Bill


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## Bee_Abney

b_elliott said:


> True that. Not to drive the thread off course, _Oliver Twist_ is a stellar read. I read it to my Dad when he was in the hospital -- the birth of Oliver (Ch 1) gave us a chuckle. Cheers, Bill


That sounds lovely. It's pretty special to share magical story-telling with loved ones.

My brother and I have zoom calls to listen to short stories together. It's wonderful.


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## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> That sounds lovely. It's pretty special to share magical story-telling with loved ones.
> 
> My brother and I have zoom calls to listen to short stories together. It's wonderful.


Super cool ! Surely enhances all You are !
Had extraordinary younger brother, not so interactive in young-adulthood. Talented musician, entertainer, soooo close to 'big-time' from southern California to Bay Area, in '70(s) -80(s). Tragically downhill since. 
So cool to have visited his various entertainment venues, experienced how he was received, enjoyed by so many, during live performances. Can be tough world out there ..... 😧


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## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Super cool ! Surely enhances all You are !
> Had extraordinary younger brother, not so interactive in young-adulthood. Talented musician, entertainer, soooo close to 'big-time' from southern California to Bay Area, in '70(s) -80(s). Tragically downhill since.
> So cool to have visited his various entertainment venues, experienced how he was received, enjoyed by so many, during live performances. Can be tough world out there ..... 😧


It's a dark dirty world at times. But people are worth it all.


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## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> It's a dark dirty world at times. But people are worth it all.


woosh ....... !! Yes, indeed ! 💗


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## kgdrum

Peter V said:


> Hey folks, I was there, in the 80s, experienced it myself ... and I can tell you: land without water!
> When we think back to the 80s today we mean Kraftwerk, Joy Division, The Cure, Depeche Mode, New Order and other timeless classics. But the 80s were also the years of Rick Astly, Chris de Burgh (Lady in red), Starship (We build thius City) and countless songs from Modern Talking. Looking back, no one can find that seriously tasteful, can they?


Thank You, I was there as well and the majority of popular music was absolutely dreadful! Yeah there was some great stuff but most people are remembering the great classics & forgetting all of the dreck that dominated the airwaves.


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## Fleer

Still, pretty much a 70s man myself. If I had to pick one year, it would be 1971, with some leftovers from 1970 and a healthy helping of 1972. Hated the 80s and their bland cd sound. Hated their piercing and superficial synths. But Keith Jarrett’s Facing You album was pretty, pretty good.


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## Bee_Abney

Fleer said:


> Still, pretty much a 70s man myself. If I had to pick one year, it would be 1971, with some leftovers from 1970 and a healthy helping of 1972. Hated the 80s and their bland cd sound. Hated their piercing and superficial synths. But Keith Jarrett’s Facing You album was pretty, pretty good.


The ones we like! There are always exceptions.


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## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> The ones we like! There are always exceptions.


We jazz hounds had ongoing enjoyment ! Shearing, Brubeck, Jarrett, M Davis, Coltrane, Corea ....... 
What's not to like ? 💫


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## Fleer

And above all, Johann Sebastian Bach. 
Always.


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## Bee_Abney

Fleer said:


> And above all, Johann Sebastian Bach.
> Always.


You have such good taste!


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## sostenuto

Hmmmmmmm ............


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## sostenuto

My bad ! Facing You 👍🏻 Several Bach !!! .... 
Belonging, Last Dance, The Melody at Night, With You, My Song, The Survivor' Suite, Jasmine, more in fav Playlist. 
Added KJ to earlier post.


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## rhizomusicosmos

Bee_Abney said:


> It's a fine novel. The only full Dickens novel I've read. Other that, just A Christmas Carol and some short stories. 'The Signalman' is wonderful.
> 
> But Dickens at Christmas? Nothing could be more appropriate! Even with unwilling gas; something I know a lot about every time I have a five bean chilli.


I had to suffer through _David Copperfield_ (with one "p") at university. After the first few chapters I dearly wished the titular protagonist had succumbed to the 1-in-3 Victorian infant mortality rate. This would have resulted in a much shorter and much better novel in my opinion.


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## Fleer

Don’t know if Databroth’s Kult review was posted yet?








DAWESOME KULT Review — DATABROTH


My thoughts on Dawesome’s new synth KULT




www.databroth.com


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## Sombreuil

Just bought Abyss for €54, that's kind of crazy if you think about it.


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## TheUnfinished

Peter V said:


> Hey folks, I was there, in the 80s, experienced it myself ... and I can tell you: land without water!
> When we think back to the 80s today we mean Kraftwerk, Joy Division, The Cure, Depeche Mode, New Order and other timeless classics. But the 80s were also the years of Rick Astly, Chris de Burgh (Lady in red), Starship (We build thius City) and countless songs from Modern Talking. Looking back, no one can find that seriously tasteful, can they?


How dare you try to besmirch the fine name of Modern Talking?!


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## spektralisk

sostenuto said:


> If KULT can work as alternative to Generate > hope there is/will be option for 'Bleak' exapansion !!


Working on it!  Meanwhile you can check my sounds in the factory library.

Actually I'm planning several packs focused on different sounds. If you have any ideas or are interested is something specific, do let me know.


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## TheUnfinished

spektralisk said:


> Working on it!  Meanwhile you can check my sounds in the factory library.
> 
> Actually I'm planning several packs focused on different sounds. If you have any ideas or are interested is something specific, do let me know.


I'd like a Modern Talking soundset, please.


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## doctoremmet

TheUnfinished said:


> I'd like a Modern Talking soundset, please.


Whenever I strap on my keytar I always feel that way too


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## Wasteland

some KULT, to wash away the, well....


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## Serge Pavkin

doctoremmet said:


> Whenever I strap on my keytar I always feel that way too



Thomas' playing reminded me of my first date with my future wife) I turned off the keys on my Yamaha PSR, turned on a great demo piano track and pretended to play the piano expertly with emotion and the right facial expressions. That evening we kissed for the first time. (By the way, Thomas also sings about Yamaha here. Sweet memories...)


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## DoubleTap

Perhaps somebody should square the circle* by doing a version of She Sells Sanktuary. 

*To saw the circle would be a step too far I think.


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## Technostica

Bee_Abney said:


> Now I really want to do a cover of Private Investigations by Dire Straits, performed entirely with Kult. But at three times the length.


With that crate of Harveys Bristol Cream and sack of misshaped Black Magic rejects at your side, I think that’s inevitable.


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## Bee_Abney

Technostica said:


> With that crate of Harveys Bristol Cream and sack of misshaped Black Magic rejects at your side, I think that’s inevitable.


But it would take me until next Christmas to get it done!

But good golly, you have described a _very_ good afternoon!


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## doctoremmet




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## Cepheus

A bit of fair warning here. Yesterday after several days of hyping, I bought a licence via JRR shop and still haven’t received an activation code. This is not okay.


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## Braveheart

Cepheus said:


> A bit of fair warning here. Yesterday after several days of hyping, I bought a licence via JRR shop and still haven’t received an activation code. This is not okay. My advice if you’re suffering severely from GAS and really want to play with KULT (and not just the demo, although this is a very good demo…): AVOID JRR shop. I really hate them now.


I bought from them for at least 10 years. If there’s a problem, most likely it’s the developper who didn’t send them enough licenses for the number of purchases at this price.


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## Bee_Abney

Cepheus said:


> A bit of fair warning here. Yesterday after several days of hyping, I bought a licence via JRR shop and still haven’t received an activation code. This is not okay. My advice if you’re suffering severely from GAS and really want to play with KULT (and not just the demo, although this is a very good demo…): AVOID JRR shop. I really hate them now.


The trial is entirely without limitations and lasts ninety days, so at least you aren't being inconvenienced in using Kult in any way. The intermittent silence only happens if you don't register for the trial at Tracktion.


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## Technostica

Bee_Abney said:


> But it would take me until next Christmas to get it done!
> 
> But good golly, you have described a _very_ good afternoon!


Feel free to thank me in your acceptance speech, when you are carried/dragged to the stage to accept the Grammy for the most drunken cover version since The Pogues.
With your granny perm and slight whiff of stale bat urine, you are a shoo-in for a sponsorship deal with Harveys. 
Just make sure that matron wipes the voluminous patches of dried Black Magic from your face before you get on Stage. 
Otherwise, you risk looking as if you are auditioning for Jeremy Clarkson's relaunched Black and White Minstrels show. 
That might get you a congratulationary telegram from Nigel Farage, but the Harveys sponsorship will be blown. 

(Even further off topic, if that's possible!) 
I saw The Pogues supporting Elvis Costello and they managed to get to the bar even before the audience after their set. 
They immediately stepped off the front of the stage and headed straight for the bar.


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## Crowe

Cepheus said:


> A bit of fair warning here. Yesterday after several days of hyping, I bought a licence via JRR shop and still haven’t received an activation code. This is not okay. My advice if you’re suffering severely from GAS and really want to play with KULT (and not just the demo, although this is a very good demo…): AVOID JRR shop. I really hate them now.


Take a step back and breathe. Dawesome has 90-day full-trials you can activate. You are not inconvenienced in any real way.

JRR shop is a reseller. If they don't have enough licenses, it can take a while until they do. This is the nature of reseller shops. Audiodeluxe can take a while too. If you want something immediately without fail, go to Tracktion and buy directly from them (I'm not sure they don't fulfill by hand though). It should not be this easy to hate something. It's better to contact support and just ask them what's up.

And again. 90 day full trial.


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## Dirtgrain

Cepheus said:


> A bit of fair warning here. Yesterday after several days of hyping, I bought a licence via JRR shop and still haven’t received an activation code. This is not okay. My advice if you’re suffering severely from GAS and really want to play with KULT (and not just the demo, although this is a very good demo…): AVOID JRR shop. I really hate them now.


I got last night and had activation code right away. Besides contacting their support (never done it), you can contact Uncle E in this KVR thread: https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=262178

He posts there daily--or you could PM him, as well.


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## Crowe

Cepheus said:


> A bit of fair warning here. Yesterday after several days of hyping, I bought a licence via JRR shop and still haven’t received an activation code. This is not okay. My advice if you’re suffering severely from GAS and really want to play with KULT (and not just the demo, although this is a very good demo…): AVOID JRR shop. I really hate them now.


I just checked my JRR shop orders and activation codes are generally delivered on your invoice. Like. Go to JRR, check your orders, and there it should be. Are you sure you aren't waiting for something that's never going to come because it's already there?


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## Cepheus

Crowe said:


> Take a step back and breathe. Dawesome has 90-day full-trials you can activate. You are not inconvenienced in any real way.
> 
> JRR shop is a reseller. If they don't have enough licenses, it can take a while until they do. This is the nature of reseller shops. Audiodeluxe can take a while too. If you want something immediately without fail, go to Tracktion and buy directly from them (I'm not sure they don't fulfill by hand though). It should not be this easy to hate something. It's better to contact support and just ask them what's up.
> 
> And again. 90 day full trial.




Fair enough, but a reseller should keep track of its inventory and let the costumer know that they can deliver or not. I would have made a different choice and gone straight to the Tracktion in this case. The demo is sufficient for now to ease the GAS problems, however people should know that JRR is low on codes and accept a wait.


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## Cepheus

Crowe said:


> I just checked my JRR shop orders and activation codes are generally delivered on your invoice. Like. Go to JRR, check your orders, and there it should be. Are you sure you aren't waiting for something that's never going to come because it's already there?


Good point and thanks for the tip, just checked:the code was now in my account. It previously said to wait for a mail. Sorry all for my ranting bit of a KULT of personality. Merry X-mas and fun with KULT to all of you.


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## Fleer

Delivery of KULT was instant here. Happy camper at the Dawesome grounds. Tracktion sure got some traction lately.


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## Bee_Abney

Technostica said:


> Feel free to thank me in your acceptance speech, when you are carried/dragged to the stage to accept the Grammy for the most drunken cover version since The Pogues.
> With your granny perm and slight whiff of stale bat urine, you are a shoo-in for a sponsorship deal with Harveys.
> Just make sure that matron wipes the voluminous patches of dried Black Magic from your face before you get on Stage.
> Otherwise, you risk looking as if you are auditioning for Jeremy Clarkson's relaunched Black and White Minstrels show.
> That might get you a congratulationary telegram from Nigel Farage, but the Harveys sponsorship will be blown.
> 
> (Even further off topic, if that's possible!)
> I saw The Pogues supporting Elvis Costello and they managed to get to the bar even before the audience after their set.
> They immediately stepped off the front of the stage and headed straight for the bar.


I'll definitely mention you in my acceptance speech. There's no guarantee that it will be to thank you!

The Pogues - you mean they weren't drinking on stage?!


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## Technostica

Bee_Abney said:


> I'll definitely mention you in my acceptance speech. There's no guarantee that it will be to thank you!
> 
> The Pogues - you mean they weren't drinking on stage?!


Obviously! They only finished the set because they had drunk the rider and were still a tad thirsty.


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## doctoremmet




----------



## José Herring

Bee_Abney said:


> I don't have much of a history with synths. It's true that I liked the synths on Rush's 80s work, but that was about it. About two years ago I got interested in using samples and some amount of time into that I decided that I wasn't completely comfortable with deep sampled emulations of acoustic instruments. Which got me into older-style samplers and synths. It's been a really enjoyable time of experimentation.
> 
> I think what draws me to more analog synth sounds is not so much a familiarity with those synth sounds as a more specific fondness for analog saturation. I'm not wholly sure.
> 
> There is also an element of wanting what I think of as timeless sounds. In this case, what I mean is sounds that don't immediately trigger associations with specific time periods either in reality or fiction. So sounds that could be a thousand years old, or from a thousand years in the future. This all gets complicated with synths which have such a recent history of development, and trigger associations with periods of living people's own lives.
> 
> My first, instinctive, response to this was to look to synthesis from the early to mid Twentieth Century. Sounds that weren't new during (many of) our life times. And then I just started following my ears. Plus, working with samples just somehow felt more instinctive to me, so I've stuck with doing a lot of sound design with samples.
> 
> But synths that can make sounds that are very different to what I've heard before always get my interest! And if it is wild and somehow 'wrong', so much the better. But I still struggle a bit to find out how to use it.
> 
> I'm... I'm talking myself into buying Generate again, aren't I?
> 
> Still, Kult seems like a good direction to head in for now. Everything about it seems right.


Love the background story. If I didn't have Generate I'd probably pick Kult because it just seems like a whole lot of fun and achieves similar results.


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## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> Love the background story. If I didn't have Generate I'd probably pick Kult because it just seems like a whole lot of fun and achieves similar results.


Here’s a suggestion: get NOVUM.


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## kgdrum

doctoremmet said:


> Here’s a suggestion: get NOVUM.



ABSOLUTELY


----------



## ShoeHorn

I picked it up yesterday and love the sounds so far.
I'd like to see a bigger presets window or at least a bigger font size though.


----------



## Alchemedia

Cepheus said:


> A bit of fair warning here. Yesterday after several days of hyping, I bought a licence via JRR shop and still haven’t received an activation code. This is not okay. My advice if you’re suffering severely from GAS and really want to play with KULT (and not just the demo, although this is a very good demo…): AVOID JRR shop. I really hate them now.


Sorry you had issues but I have to disagree. @jrrshop is legit and Uncle E is a good egg.


----------



## Sombreuil

I bought Abyss from them yesterday and had no problem at all. I received my activation code within 2 minutes.


----------



## ShoeHorn

So, when saving my own patches I always get the message that that patch name exists.
It doesn't matter what the name I give it is, it always exists and must be versionized.....


----------



## Databroth

ShoeHorn said:


> So, when saving my own patches I always get the message that that patch name exists.
> It doesn't matter what the name I give it is, it always exists and must be versionized.....


when you type in the name it saves a version
I think it's when you type a name and change the tag
I always for get exactly how it works, but it's a little bit of a different workflow


----------



## Bee_Abney

ShoeHorn said:


> So, when saving my own patches I always get the message that that patch name exists.
> It doesn't matter what the name I give it is, it always exists and must be versionized.....


It is set to save when you type in a new name. So when you click to save, you are saving it a second time. You can change this in the menu if you don't like it.


----------



## ShoeHorn

Bee_Abney said:


> It is set to save when you type in a new name. So when you click to save, you are saving it a second time. You can change this in the menu if you don't like it.


Oh, okay thanks for that. Kind of makes sense.


----------



## Paj

Cepheus said:


> A bit of fair warning here. Yesterday after several days of hyping, I bought a licence via JRR shop and still haven’t received an activation code. This is not okay. My advice if you’re suffering severely from GAS and really want to play with KULT (and not just the demo, although this is a very good demo…): AVOID JRR shop. I really hate them now.


I'm having and had the same issue with everything I ordered from Tracktion/DAWsome via JRRShop. It's some sort of weird blip. I got a fairly quick response and satisfaction by filling out the short support form via the "Contact Us" link.

Paj
8^)


----------



## doctoremmet

Watch Me Throw Away a Project Right When I'm Feeling IT (DAWESOME Plugin Jam)


Kult review: https://www.databroth.com/blog/kult-reviewcheck out my wavetables and presets at https://gumroad.com/databrothjoin my Patreonhttps://www.patreon...




www.youtube.com


----------



## Databroth

doctoremmet said:


> Watch Me Throw Away a Project Right When I'm Feeling IT (DAWESOME Plugin Jam)
> 
> 
> Kult review: https://www.databroth.com/blog/kult-reviewcheck out my wavetables and presets at https://gumroad.com/databrothjoin my Patreonhttps://www.patreon...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com


haha, thanks for sharing this, so sad I hit the wrong button
wasn't paying attention, and assumed I needed to press "no" to stop whatever dialogue box I opened
turned out it was asking if I wanted to save
it was finally getting somewhere too at that point

really enjoying Kult in this system
abyss for pads
novum for glitches and textures
kult for leads and bass


----------



## Bee_Abney

Databroth said:


> haha, thanks for sharing this, so sad I hit the wrong button
> wasn't paying attention, and assumed I needed to press "no" to stop whatever dialogue box I opened
> turned out it was asking if I wanted to save
> it was finally getting somewhere too at that point
> 
> really enjoying Kult in this system
> abyss for pads
> novum for glitches and textures
> kult for leads and bass


I'm pretty convinced that my work has touched genius at times. When I didn't save it, no-one else was there, and I wasn't really listening either. At least you have a YouTube video! And we get to watch it too!


----------



## ShoeHorn

If only there was a BACK button.........


----------



## Tentype

Well, I did it.

After many tearful sonic journeys exploring Abyss, and getting inspired to actually learn (rather than preset surf) the synths I've bought over my 25 years of ITB music making, I decided to buy Abyss, Novum, and Kult for the sheer joy of how musically freeing they are.

Playing with these 3 synths has been the most fun I've had just making sound for the sake of making sound in a LONG time.

It was the almost aggressively simple interface of Abyss that got me. After my first couple of hours playing with it I had nearly 15 patches that I liked. Different styles and flavours. It actually made the process of creating a patch EASIER than surfing presets. I mean it's not like I don't tweak them anyway, dial this up, dial that down, but starting from INIT was never my thing. Abyss is my official gateway drug, and I want to thank @Peter V for crafting such an ingenious interface.

I mean, it also doesn't hurt that I'm a Linnstrument player and how to tweak the expressiveness in Abyss is so perfectly transparent.

To be honest if I hadn't had my mind blown with Abyss I likely wouldn't have given much thought to Novum or Kult, but with the interfaces being so accessible it was actually immediately apparent what I could do with them. Not what others might do, but what I might actually be able to accomplish, in a reasonable amount of time, and less effort decoding how connections are made.

Also, I read this entire thread and learned 3 things:
1. The joy on Vi-control is infectious
2. @Bee_Abney is clearly my friend
3. All of you are fools for not pressing Peter for more information about SYMBIONT. I mean seriously. It was brought up well before Kult. Is it Kult? You still have a week to release a... what... 4th masterfully crafted software in 2022... 😉

This has been a love note for all of you.
With much admiration and respect,

Tentype


----------



## Databroth

I hope I'm not out of line here, or revealing any secrets
but Kult is not Symbiont, that's all I know though, because it was my first question upon seeing Kult


----------



## Bee_Abney

Tentype said:


> Well, I did it.
> 
> After many tearful sonic journeys exploring Abyss, and getting inspired to actually learn (rather than preset surf) the synths I've bought over my 25 years of ITB music making, I decided to buy Abyss, Novum, and Kult for the sheer joy of how musically freeing they are.
> 
> Playing with these 3 synths has been the most fun I've had just making sound for the sake of making sound in a LONG time.
> 
> It was the almost aggressively simple interface of Abyss that got me. After my first couple of hours playing with it I had nearly 15 patches that I liked. Different styles and flavours. It actually made the process of creating a patch EASIER than surfing presets. I mean it's not like I don't tweak them anyway, dial this up, dial that down, but starting from INIT was never my thing. Abyss is my official gateway drug, and I want to thank @Peter V for crafting such an ingenious interface.
> 
> I mean, it also doesn't hurt that I'm a Linnstrument player and how to tweak the expressiveness in Abyss is so perfectly transparent.
> 
> To be honest if I hadn't had my mind blown with Abyss I likely wouldn't have given much thought to Novum or Kult, but with the interfaces being so accessible it was actually immediately apparent what I could do with them. Not what others might do, but what I might actually be able to accomplish, in a reasonable amount of time, and less effort decoding how connections are made.
> 
> Also, I read this entire thread and learned 3 things:
> 1. The joy on Vi-control is infectious
> 2. @Bee_Abney is clearly my friend
> 3. All of you are fools for not pressing Peter for more information about SYMBIONT. I mean seriously. It was brought up well before Kult. Is it Kult? You still have a week to release a... what... 4th masterfully crafted software in 2022... 😉
> 
> This has been a love note for all of you.
> With much admiration and respect,
> 
> Tentype


Merry Christmas, friend!


----------



## Tentype

Thanks friend! Merry Christmas to you!


----------



## ShoeHorn

ShoeHorn said:


> If only there was a BACK button.........


Actually, there is an Undo and a Redo button under the KULT label, top left. 

Problem solved


----------



## Harry

How long is the Sale on for? I don't see a date on their web page.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Harry said:


> How long is the Sale on for? I don't see a date on their web page.


The Tracktion-wide sale is until the 2nd of January 11.59 Pacific Standard Time (I have this from an email). Due to the sale across the site, there hasn't been a specific introductory price for Kult; so unless something changes, it would go up to its full price when the rest do.


----------



## Tentype

Hey @Peter V , your software has a pretty solid emphasis on MPE, what controller do you use? The Eigenharp seems pretty bassoon-like?
Also, who else here is rockin an expressive controller?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Tentype said:


> Hey @Peter V , your software has a pretty solid emphasis on MPE, what controller do you use? The Eigenharp seems pretty bassoon-like?
> Also, who else here is rockin an expressive controller?


Peter has a Roli of some kind, maybe others too. I don't myself. One day, though!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Bee_Abney said:


> Peter has a Roli of some kind, maybe others too. I don't myself. One day, though!


Are most of the presets already set up with mappings for Slide (Timbre), Press, and Lift (Release Velocity)?... I should really get around to demoing it before the sale ends. Presets created with the Seaboard in mind would be a huge plus. Guess I'll do a shoot-out between Kult and Generate on the Seaboard Rise 2, maybe buy Bleak MPE and/or The Unfinished Generate Noir first....


----------



## Bee_Abney

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Are most of the presets already set up with mappings for Slide (Timbre), Press, and Lift (Release Velocity)?... I should really get around to demoing it before the sale ends. Presets created with the Seaboard in mind would be a huge plus. Guess I'll do a shoot-out between Kult and Generate on the Seaboard Rise 2, maybe buy Bleak MPE and/or The Unfinished Generate Noir first....


These are certainly used in some presets, but I haven't been through them all so I'm not sure if it most or not. It is very quick to add them or adjust them if necessary. One way is to assign the amount of other modulations to the MPE controls. Or, say, set filters to move in relation to velocity and/or release.

I can have a check through tomorrow for you (it's bedtime here!).; but I really recommend the trial either now or later. It really doesn't take long to learn your way around and get a sense of the synths potential. Especially if you mess about with the presets.

I can say that Peter added MPE shaping to some of my presets for me.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

These appear to be the same video with different EQ/mixing. I like the high end much more in the second one, especially for the first few presets:


----------



## Bee_Abney

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Are most of the presets already set up with mappings for Slide (Timbre), Press, and Lift (Release Velocity)?... I should really get around to demoing it before the sale ends. Presets created with the Seaboard in mind would be a huge plus. Guess I'll do a shoot-out between Kult and Generate on the Seaboard Rise 2, maybe buy Bleak MPE and/or The Unfinished Generate Noir first....


From quickly skimming through the presets, it looks like around half have MPE features already; though not necessarily something for every possibility: Pressure and Slide seem to be most popular.


----------



## Bee_Abney

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> These appear to be the same video with different EQ/mixing. I like the high end much more in the second one, especially for the first few presets:



I suspect that the first one was uploaded as is from recording while the second was adjusted with a tiny bit of mastering to meet the YouTube recommendations on LUFS and dB. So, the first video would have been adjusted automatically by YouTube, whilst the second wouldn't have been. So, for instance the second one might have been passed through Bute Loudness Normaliser before uploading.


----------



## Wasteland

i want to first say this: great to see most/all people that worked on KULT, besides peter of course...
i was late to the beta party, but still 15 presets ended up in the Factory. a first time for me..

i am quite a Dawesome 'freak', use Abyss a lot, Novum, well i teared that thing apart... and well for KULT i already have presets for a year....

my presets that are included weren't MPE at the moment i made them, which is for me strange, as a MPE addict.

peter has a seabord block, ssshtt.....

i have what is called i like the name a Roli Surface; 2 x Seabord Block + 2 x Lighptad M Block.

in my studio every MPE capable synth is by definition in MPE mode...

to MPE-i-fy presets, isn't that dificult. LIFT is a forgotten MPE feature, or forgotten, it is great... but not used a lot.

and using PRESSURE and SLIDE to multiple destinations, can create awesome (pun intended) presets, with a great bandwidth.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Wasteland said:


> i want to first say this: great to see most/all people that worked on KULT, besides peter of course...
> i was late to the beta party, but still 15 presets ended up in the Factory. a first time for me..
> 
> i am quite a Dawesome 'freak', use Abyss a lot, Novum, well i teared that thing apart... and well for KULT i already have presets for a year....
> 
> my presets that are included weren't MPE at the moment i made them, which is for me strange, as a MPE addict.
> 
> peter has a seabord block, ssshtt.....
> 
> i have what is called i like the name a Roli Surface; 2 x Seabord Block + 2 x Lighptad M Block.
> 
> in my studio every MPE capable synth is by definition in MPE mode...
> 
> to MPE-i-fy presets, isn't that dificult. LIFT is a forgotten MPE feature, or forgotten, it is great... but not used a lot.
> 
> and using PRESSURE and SLIDE to multiple destinations, can create awesome (pun intended) presets, with a great bandwidth.


It was my first time too - I was thrilled to think that anyone else might be using my presets! Even if it is only to quickly replace it with one by Peter, Databroth, Yuli Yolo, etc....!


----------



## Peter V

Tentype said:


> Hey @Peter V , your software has a pretty solid emphasis on MPE, what controller do you use? The Eigenharp seems pretty bassoon-like?
> Also, who else here is rockin an expressive controller?


I am mostly using a Roli Seaboard. Also I am having an eye on the Linnstrument ... 
The Eigenharp may seem basson-like, but for me personally only a real bassoon or a real contrabassoon are _really _bassoon-like


----------



## Tentype

The Linnstrument is a real joy to use everytime. Compact, responsive, and simple to understand. Outstanding design, and clearly built to last. ❤️

That said, my main instrument is the violin so the layout, distances, and pitch gliding and vibrato makes intuitive sense to me. I don't know that the Linnstrument has much more to offer than the Seaboard TBH. If you're a keyboard player the Seaboard seems like a smart move. I've never used one, but I imagine you could have much finer control over the SLIDE parameter since the keys are much longer vs the tiny squares on the Linnstrument.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Databroth said:


> so when I compare generate and kult, [. . .] the tone generation on both synths uses the same method of strange attractors as a form of synthesis


According to Dan Gillespie of Newfangled Audio (in an email just now), "[Generate] does use Chaotic systems, but not strange attractors. The set of Chaotic systems in Generate is based on the double Pendulum."

https://www.newfangledaudio.com/post/introducing-generate-and-model-bending-synthesis

Wonder how chaotic systems differ from strange attractors in terms of perceptible musical differences. (Or for that matter how and under what conditions the musical perception of strange attractors differs substantially from that of non-uniformly distributed pseudo-random processes in general.)

"[for] an undamped undriven double pendulum. In this case the motion exhibited by the double pendulum may be chaotic (depending on the intial conditions, lengths of the pendulum arms and masses), but it exhibits no attractors in the sense that trajectories converge to a certain invariant set (the attractor) in phase space. ... So, it’s *strange, but no strange attractor."*









When produces the double pendulum a strange attractor figure, indicating chaos, and how does it look like in 3d?


Imagine a double pendulum consisting of two pieces with different constant lengths and constant masses. This double pendulum dissipates no energy. When you let it go, you can vary the two angles i...




physics.stackexchange.com





While it's true that a damped double pendulum can generate a strange attractor:

"Damping and forcing are then introduced and a brief investigation into the strange attractor of the double pendulum illustrates its chaotic nature"



https://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10092/12659/chen_2008_report.pdf



I'd assume the head developer is right....


----------



## Peter V

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Wonder how chaotic systems differ from strange attractors in terms of perceptible musical differences. (Or for that matter how and under what conditions the musical perception of strange attractors differs substantially from that of non-uniformly distributed pseudo-random processes in general.)


I will try to clarify, but it will take a few words. I will try to avoid math lingo to make it simpler, but then of course it is slightly less precise than the math language. :-/ 

The most general term in this context is a "dynamical system". This is a set of functions that describe the trajectory of a particle through space. This can be anything - from the swinging of a (double or single) pendulum, or the flow of water through a pipe, or a model of the stock market development. This is a very powerful and generic math theory, and actually many modern inventions would not exist without this theory.

Some of these systems are behaving "chaotic", which means that if you put the tiniest influence on the system, its future trajectory will be wildly different. Many of these chaotic systems have a surprising feature: no matter where you start the trajectory - after some time the curve will be (and stay forever) on a surface. So you never know _where exactly_ the particle will be in the future, but you can say with certainty that it it will be on the surface. This surface is called "strange attractor" - it often has strange forms, and it "attracts" all orbits to its surface. 

By itself neither a chaotic system nor a strange attractor produce any sound! Its just a particle flying through an (abstract) multi-dimensional space. So you also need a method how to convert this orbit to a sound. The simplest choice would be a projection to one of the coordinates. If the strange attractor is a bounded surface, then also the projection is bounded, and hence could be interpreted as a waveform. 

In KULT a slightly different technique is used: the trajectory of the particle is projected to a 2-dim subspace - meaning the particle is orbiting in a 2D space. This is also what you see in KULT. The sound shaping is also done within this space, by deforming the 2D space the trajectory is changed, and hence the sound changes. You won't find these sound fx in other synths, as they are not using this method of audio dsp. 

Our ear is perceptible to a lot of changes, however you could take the multidimensional statistics of a dynamical system (like a strange attractor) and model a curve, which also lives on the strange-attractor, but instead of being chaotic, it would be random. If you take enough of these statistics you could easily fool the ear - we are not great in distinguishing pure randomness from chaos. However, there is little advantage - as evaluating the model probably would be by far more complex than evaluating the equations for the dynamic system itself. 

So, I will reformulate the question: Why are strange attractors interesting objects for sound creation?
1. Unlike periodic movement Strange attractors follow similar orbits, but not exactly the same orbits. Hence there is constant change in the waveform, which simply sounds organic. 

2. There are hundreds of strange attractors described in the literature. Hence you find plenty of systems to choose from to select those who sound most interesting. For sure there will be an update of KULT that adds more attractors in the future 

3. If you take real acoustic instruments you can record their sound and try to derive a dynamical system, that creates this movement. Interestingly the orbits of such sounds often look like strange attractors. 

4. There are recent advancements in the theory of dynamic systems that allows to search for equations from the measured data. This is far from an automatic solution, and is computationally demanding, but in the future I hope to be able to derive models from recorded sounds. Or in other words: you could import a sample, it would be converted into a model, and then you could apply SAW, SQ, F-Shift, S-Shift etc ... 

I hope this gives some background, even though probably not everything is clear to full detail - its simply a bit challenging to condense decades of math theory into a single forum post :-D


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

Peter V said:


> I will try to clarify, but it will take a few words. I will try to avoid math lingo to make it simpler, but then of course it is slightly less precise than the math language. :-/
> 
> The most general term in this context is a "dynamical system". This is a set of functions that describe the trajectory of a particle through space. This can be anything - from the swinging of a (double or single) pendulum, or the flow of water through a pipe, or a model of the stock market development. This is a very powerful and generic math theory, and actually many modern inventions would not exist without this theory.
> 
> Some of these systems are behaving "chaotic", which means that if you put the tiniest influence on the system, its future trajectory will be wildly different. Many of these chaotic systems have a surprising feature: no matter where you start the trajectory - after some time the curve will be (and stay forever) on a surface. So you never know _where exactly_ the particle will be in the future, but you can say with certainty that it it will be on the surface. This surface is called "strange attractor" - it often has strange forms, and it "attracts" all orbits to its surface.
> 
> By itself neither a chaotic system nor a strange attractor produce any sound! Its just a particle flying through an (abstract) multi-dimensional space. So you also need a method how to convert this orbit to a sound. The simplest choice would be a projection to one of the coordinates. If the strange attractor is a bounded surface, then also the projection is bounded, and hence could be interpreted as a waveform.
> 
> In KULT a slightly different technique is used: the trajectory of the particle is projected to a 2-dim subspace - meaning the particle is orbiting in a 2D space. This is also what you see in KULT. The sound shaping is also done within this space, by deforming the 2D space the trajectory is changed, and hence the sound changes. You won't find these sound fx in other synths, as they are not using this method of audio dsp.
> 
> Our ear is perceptible to a lot of changes, however you could take the multidimensional statistics of a dynamical system (like a strange attractor) and model a curve, which also lives on the strange-attractor, but instead of being chaotic, it would be random. If you take enough of these statistics you could easily fool the ear - we are not great in distinguishing pure randomness from chaos. However, there is little advantage - as evaluating the model probably would be by far more complex than evaluating the equations for the dynamic system itself.
> 
> So, I will reformulate the question: Why are strange attractors interesting objects for sound creation?
> 1. Unlike periodic movement Strange attractors follow similar orbits, but not exactly the same orbits. Hence there is constant change in the waveform, which simply sounds organic.
> 
> 2. There are hundreds of strange attractors described in the literature. Hence you find plenty of systems to choose from to select those who sound most interesting. For sure there will be an update of KULT that adds more attractors in the future
> 
> 3. If you take real acoustic instruments you can record their sound and try to derive a dynamical system, that creates this movement. Interestingly the orbits of such sounds often look like strange attractors.
> 
> 4. There are recent advancements in the theory of dynamic systems that allows to search for equations from the measured data. This is far from an automatic solution, and is computationally demanding, but in the future I hope to be able to derive models from recorded sounds. Or in other words: you could import a sample, it would be converted into a model, and then you could apply SAW, SQ, F-Shift, S-Shift etc ...
> 
> I hope this gives some background, even though probably not everything is clear to full detail - its simply a bit challenging to condense decades of math theory into a single forum post :-D


This gives us a little more insight on how the concept of strange attractors can be applied to synthesis, thanks. I read James Gleick's _Chaos _years ago and what you are talking about brings that all back. A chaotic system can follow a path, like the flow of a stream around rocks or the growth of a tree, but incorporates unpredictability. This reminds me of Boulez and the intermixing of smooth and striated musical time and space.


----------



## Dirtgrain

Unless one has studied his Agrippa.
(bad joke, but you know . . .)


----------



## dainiak

Peter V said:


> By itself neither a chaotic system nor a strange attractor produce any sound! Its just a particle flying through an (abstract) multi-dimensional space. So you also need a method how to convert this orbit to a sound. The simplest choice would be a projection to one of the coordinates. If the strange attractor is a bounded surface, then also the projection is bounded, and hence could be interpreted as a waveform.
> 
> In KULT a slightly different technique is used: the trajectory of the particle is projected to a 2-dim subspace - meaning the particle is orbiting in a 2D space. This is also what you see in KULT. The sound shaping is also done within this space, by deforming the 2D space the trajectory is changed, and hence the sound changes. You won't find these sound fx in other synths, as they are not using this method of audio dsp.


Peter, thanks for the reasonably thorough explanation! Do you use standard methods to perform dimensionality reduction? Maximizing the variance? Or is it your own secrete sauce? And have you considered projecting directly to an optimally chosen (whatever “optimal” means for you) 1-dimensional subspace?


----------



## Peter V

dainiak said:


> Peter, thanks for the reasonably thorough explanation! Do you use standard methods to perform dimensionality reduction? Maximizing the variance? Or is it your own secrete sauce? And have you considered projecting directly to an optimally chosen (whatever “optimal” means for you) 1-dimensional subspace?



Yes, I have experimented all the standard dimensionality reduction methods, but the requirements for sound are slightly different: you don't want to reduce or emphasise any frequency band, and you want to compute it with low CPU. 

Direct projection is fast, but there can be the issue of "collapse" if for example you have a circular movement that stays within the xy plane, and you project to the z-axis this becomes a single point - the frequency / movement got lost. 

Note that I am transforming not to an 1-dimensional subspace, but a 2-dimensional one. Any point in this 2-dim plane can then be interpreted as a complex number with real and imaginary part.


----------



## davidson

Has anyone bought any of the preset packs? They seem kind of pricey - $50 for 70 presets (I know some have more), but maybe they're that good?


----------



## doctoremmet

The only one I bought was Simon Stockhausen’s excellent pack for NOVUM over at Patchpool. Worth every penny.


----------



## davidson

doctoremmet said:


> The only one I bought was Simon Stockhausen’s excellent pack for NOVUM over at Patchpool. Worth every penny.


Just had a quick scan - they do sound nice, cheers! More reasonably priced than the official packs at tracktion too. The design of that site almost made me go blind though!


----------



## Bee_Abney

davidson said:


> Just had a quick scan - they do sound nice, cheers! More reasonably priced than the official packs at tracktion too. The design of that site almost made me go blind though!


There's a double meaning in that.


----------



## doctoremmet

davidson said:


> Just had a quick scan - they do sound nice, cheers! More reasonably priced than the official packs at tracktion too. The design of that site almost made me go blind though!


Simon is one of the best sound designers around today. His site is more like a rite of passage ritual; once you’ve learned to navigate it, there are treasures ahead. Seriously, his patches are among the best of the best. I highly recommend them.

The documentation is also FANTASTIC! Check those PDFs full of his thoughts and little explanations how he approached a patch and how a player can tweak and control it. Almost like a mini course of sorts.


----------



## doctoremmet

Shameless promotion for a fellow forum member (I also added the aforementioned PDF). 

Happy new year to all!

First Light for Novum






Link:






patchpool.net | Sounds and Presets by Simon Stockhausen | Novum First Light







patchpool.net





First Light for Novum the granular synthesizer by Dawsome/Tracktion is the result of numerous hours of experimentation, decomposing hundreds of samples of all kinds, manipulating the individual layers until expressively playable and evocative textures and instruments become apparent. 

A wide range of samples were used as source material reaching from acoustic instruments to percussion to vocals to electronic soundscapes to drones and pads to field recordings resulting in beautiful, haunting, divine, mesmerizing, massive and sometimes ominous sounds. 

In many patches samples were imported directly into a given layer and mixed with other already decomposed sources or key-track modulation was used to achieve split sounds or emulate instruments and textures that are sampled at different pitches.

All patches have the modulation wheel assigned, often drastically transforming the sound and/or adding complex modulation of filter, amplitude, effects and the various distortion modules, some presets also use aftertouch.

You can view/download the PDF for this library with more details, the licence agreement and the patchlist including descriptions and playing tips attached below.

Specs:
101 patches.
3.15 GB of decomposed sample material (lane sources).
Delivery: download (2.92 GB).
Price: € 36 EUR.

PDF attached


----------



## doctoremmet

doctoremmet said:


> Anyone up for a little crowdfunded Christmas gift for emptyvessel? I want him to put his Kenopsia samples into NOVUM next year, so let’s give him the synth.


Update on this one: I went ahead and sent Greg a license for KULT (he already owns NOVUM) for Christmas. Here’s hoping my little strategy works hehe


----------



## richmwhitfield

davidson said:


> Has anyone bought any of the preset packs? They seem kind of pricey - $50 for 70 presets (I know some have more), but maybe they're that good?


Here's a link to some presets I made for NOVUM.


----------



## Bee_Abney

richmwhitfield said:


> Here's a link to some presets I made for NOVUM.



That's really kind, thank you!


----------



## doctoremmet

richmwhitfield said:


> Here's a link to some presets I made for NOVUM.



That is very nice of you Rich! Much appreciated. ❤️


----------



## davidson

Bee_Abney said:


> There's a double meaning in that.


I've read back through my post a couple of times and I'm still lost!


----------



## Bee_Abney

I’m so sorry and embarrassed! School-yard humour. Someone discovers a new website and risks going blind from over stimulation...


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> I’m so sorry and embarrassed! School-yard humour. Someone discovers a new website and risks going blind from over stimulation...


Hmmmm ...... sounds lots like schoolyards frequented in _distant _ past !  😜  
Most patrolled by nuns (_ cross my heart ✝️ mods ! _) 

Happy 2023, BTW !  🥳


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Hmmmm ...... sounds lots like schoolyards frequented in _distant _ past !  😜
> Most patrolled by nuns (_ cross my heart ✝️ mods ! _)
> 
> Happy 2023, BTW !  🥳


Happy New Year ❤️

May it be a good one for you!


----------



## Wes Antczak

Downloading Rich's pack right now. Thank you very much, sir!

btw and fwiw... as of this writing it looks like the Tracktion holiday sale is still going. Use the code HOLIDAY22 to save 50% off storewide (including Kult).


----------



## doctoremmet

Wes Antczak said:


> Downloading Rich's pack right now. Thank you very much, sir!
> 
> btw and fwiw... as of this writing it looks like the Tracktion holiday sale is still going. Use the code HOLIDAY22 to save 50% off storewide (including Kult).


Yes, I did receive an email from Tracktion. This is “expected behaviour” 






Sale ends Monday, Jan. 2nd at 11:59pm PST


----------



## Wes Antczak

Just putting it out there for those who might not have known.


----------



## doctoremmet

Wes Antczak said:


> Just putting it out there for those who might not have known.


Yes thanks! I only wanted to confirm this was not some “they forgot to end the sale” glitch and provide extra info on the end date


----------



## davidson

Bee_Abney said:


> I’m so sorry and embarrassed! School-yard humour. Someone discovers a new website and risks going blind from over stimulation...


Haha, if only...


----------



## Bee_Abney

davidson said:


> Haha, if only...


Oh dear. Well, there's always hot coco and Falcon presets. And I'm very sorry for your, um, loss...


----------



## Darth Shlomo

doctoremmet said:


> Yes, I did receive an email from Tracktion. This is “expected behaviour”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sale ends Monday, Jan. 2nd at 11:59pm PST


I just discovered Dawesome’s synths and am pretty blown away. However, because I am late to the party, I cannot tell if this 50% off sale is an exceptional deal or a common occurrence/regular markdown. 

So, can someone who has been tracking these synths let me know whether (1) I need to jump on this sale or (2) I can wait, knowing that another sale is just around the corner? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Darth Shlomo said:


> I just discovered Dawesome’s synths and am pretty blown away. However, because I am late to the party, I cannot tell if this 50% off sale is an exceptional deal or a common occurrence/regular markdown.
> 
> So, can someone who has been tracking these synths let me know whether (1) I need to jump on this sale or (2) I can wait, knowing that another sale is just around the corner?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


It's a bit vague, but what I've noticed is that Tracktion tend to have sales at the key sales times, but that the sale isn't always as much as 50% off. So lots of sales, but as far as I can tell, it could be six months or more for a similar price. Kult could even not be included in the next sale as it is a new release.

Hopefully there has been a keener Tracktion watcher than me who can give you a more solid answer.


----------



## Darth Shlomo

Bee_Abney said:


> It's a bit vague, but what I've noticed is that Tracktion tend to have sales at the key sales times, but that the sale isn't always as much as 50% off. So lots of sales, but as far as I can tell, it could be six months or more for a similar price. Kult could even not be included in the next sale as it is a new release.
> 
> Hopefully there has been a keener Tracktion watcher than me who can give you a more solid answer.


Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is much appreciated. If anybody has any other info, it would be appreciated as well!


----------



## kgdrum

Darth Shlomo said:


> Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is much appreciated. If anybody has any other info, it would be appreciated as well!


As Bee said Tracktion has a few sales during popular sales periods throughout the year (about 3 times generally).
If I remember correctly Tracktion sales usually offer 30-40% discounts so from my recollection a 50% discount is a very good offer.


----------



## Darth Shlomo

kgdrum said:


> As Bee said Tracktion has a few sales during popular sales periods throughout the year (about 3 times generally).
> If I remember correctly Tracktion sales usually offer 30-40% discounts so from my recollection a 50% discount is a very good offer.


Thank you. I am now seriously considering purchasing all of the Dawesome synths...


----------



## doctoremmet

Darth Shlomo said:


> Thank you. I am now seriously considering purchasing all of the Dawesome synths...


Also check JRRshop with coupon code GROUP. Their offers tend to be even cheaper, although they take a while longer to actually provide you with serials sometimes.


----------



## doctoremmet

@Darth Shlomo 

Still works:


----------



## Darth Shlomo

doctoremmet said:


> @Darth Shlomo
> 
> Still works:


Awesome! Thanks so much for the tip (and for taking the time to check if it still worked).


----------



## doctoremmet

Darth Shlomo said:


> Awesome! Thanks so much for the tip (and for taking the time to check if it still worked).


Pleasure!


----------



## kgdrum

doctoremmet said:


> Also check JRRshop with coupon code GROUP. Their offers tend to be even cheaper, although they take a while longer to actually provide you with serials sometimes.


Yes, this is a great retailer many of us have been using for several years.
As a matter of fact I actually purchased Kult from JRR about 10 days ago.

👍 @Uncle E


----------



## ControlCentral

Darth Shlomo said:


> Thank you. I am now seriously considering purchasing all of the Dawesome synths...


Yes, they seem to be on an approximately six-month schedule with a flash sale here or there. I bought Abyss on an intro offer and felt it was worth it although still at a premium. They definitely have a 'sound' and will keep you busy for a while although beware that IMO they lean a bit heavily on their FX for their vibe (think SoundPaint). If you can pick up Abysss for $64 (can't speak to the others) you won't be disappointed.


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Yes, this is a great retailer many of us have been using for several years.
> As a matter of fact I actually purchased Kult from JRR about 10 days ago.
> @Uncle E 👍


Have you been enjoying the noise? Or leaning into the velvety textures?


----------



## sostenuto

kgdrum said:


> Yes, this is a great retailer many of us have been using for several years.
> As a matter of fact I actually purchased Kult from JRR about 10 days ago.
> @Uncle E 👍


Hanging in Cart with all three .... terrible GAS with little pressing need for even one. 🥳
but it's New Years, right ??


----------



## Bee_Abney

ControlCentral said:


> Yes, they seem to be on an approximately six-month schedule with a flash sale here or there. I bought Abyss on an intro offer and felt it was worth it although still at a premium. They definitely have a 'sound' and will keep you busy for a while although beware that IMO they lean a bit heavily on their FX for their vibe (think SoundPaint).


That's an interesting idea. I wouldn't say that about either Kult or Novum, the two that I have. Other than the EQ in Kult, I'd be happy not to use any of the effects in the effects section. The filters, envelopes, modulation and such - or Syntify in Novum - plus the sound sources are the big deal in my experience. But I do agree that the effects have a distinctive sound that is of a piece with the synths as a whole.

I view effects as part of the process of sound creation anyway; so I wouldn't mind either way.


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Hanging in Cart with all three .... terrible GAS with little pressing need for even one. 🥳
> but it's New Years, right ??


How about you spend the money on a really comfortable pair of slippers? What could be better than firing up Keyscape with a backbeat, and chilling out in comfy footwear?


----------



## ibanez1

sostenuto said:


> Hanging in Cart with all three .... terrible GAS with little pressing need for even one. 🥳
> but it's New Years, right ??


I have Novum already and have no pressing need to get Kult but here I am convincing myself that i'll get some awesome arps and plucks very quickly if I buy it. What I love about these synths as much as the sound is the UI. If you find yourself lost in other synths and frustrated that you're always leaning on presets, these synths may finally enable you to make something unique and special with much less effort.


----------



## Bee_Abney

ibanez1 said:


> I have Novum already and have no pressing need to get Kult but here I am convincing myself that i'll get some awesome arps and plucks very quickly if I buy it. What I love about these synths as much as the sound is the UI. If you find yourself lost in other synths and frustrated that you're always leaning on presets, these synths may finally enable you to make something unique and special with much less effort.


Much as I don't like to encourage people to spend money, that has been very much my experience with Kult. It is so easy and quick; but you also get really great and sometimes very distinctive sounds.

But delayed pleasure can be valuable too. I wouldn't want all of the synths I want all at once!


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> How about you spend the money on a really comfortable pair of slippers? What could be better than firing up Keyscape with a backbeat, and chilling out in comfy footwear?


......... maybe right after notable lurch for top hardware synth to drive Keyscape ??  _NOT !! _
_Strange feelings after morning beverage(s). _🥴


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> How about you spend the money on a really comfortable pair of slippers? What could be better than firing up Keyscape with a backbeat, and chilling out in comfy footwear?


Slippers?

I must confess I have never worn a pair of slippers since about the age of 5 or 6 years old(yes I am an uncivilized animal)and I have certainly never had a thought of buying a pair.
I understand budgeting for VI’s,plugins,bills,intoxicants,unmentionables but slippers?
What other strange habits and percuiliar ideas do you want to enlighten us with today?

but please Sweet Bee please elaborate on:

delayed pleasure………………



All the best 😘


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Slippers?
> 
> I must confess I have never worn a pair of slippers since about the age of 5 or 6 years old(yes I am an uncivilized animal)and I have certainly never had a thought of buying a pair.
> I understand budgeting for VI’s,plugins,bills,intoxicants,unmentionables but slippers?
> What other strange habits and percuiliar ideas do you want to enlighten us with today?
> 
> but please Sweet Bee please elaborate on:
> 
> delayed pleasure………………
> 
> 
> 
> All the best 😘


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


>


Store said mine were 'only' pair !!  😭


----------



## ibanez1

Bee_Abney said:


> Much as I don't like to encourage people to spend money, that has been very much my experience with Kult. It is so easy and quick; but you also get really great and sometimes very distinctive sounds.
> 
> But delayed pleasure can be valuable too. I wouldn't want all of the synths I want all at once!


I have really splurged on my new found hobby this year. I'm fortunate enough to be at a point in my life such that I can afford investing in this passion but i'm hoping this next year will be way less GAS and way more improvement in composing . The reason Kult is hanging around in the back of my head is because I find any tool which shortens the connection between idea and realization in a DAW is worth the investment. Dawesome seems to be doing that for synth sound design which fascinates me. Now I'll go off and spend the remaining hours of the day hovering over the buy button .


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> store said mine were 'only' pair !!  😭


No, no, don't worry! That's just a picture they took at the store before you bought them!


----------



## Bee_Abney

ibanez1 said:


> I have really splurged on my new found hobby this year. I'm fortunate enough to be at a point in my life such that I can afford investing in this passion but i'm hoping this next year will be way less GAS and way more improvement in composing . The reason Kult is hanging around in the back of my head is because I find any tool which shortens the connection between idea and realization in a DAW is worth the investment. Dawesome seems to be doing that for synth sound design which fascinates me. Now I'll go off and spend the remaining hours of the day hovering over the buy button .


I completely get that! But I'll also say that for me there is very little gap between coming up with an idea and putting it to work in Falcon. That's not because it is well designed like Dawesome's synths; but just because I've used it a lot.

You may already have just the thing you need, but might not have logged enough hours with it yet.


----------



## Bee_Abney

ibanez1 said:


> I have really splurged on my new found hobby this year. I'm fortunate enough to be at a point in my life such that I can afford investing in this passion but i'm hoping this next year will be way less GAS and way more improvement in composing . The reason Kult is hanging around in the back of my head is because I find any tool which shortens the connection between idea and realization in a DAW is worth the investment. Dawesome seems to be doing that for synth sound design which fascinates me. Now I'll go off and spend the remaining hours of the day hovering over the buy button .


And as I've just seen that @Peter V is around, let me just add an addendum - buy it! Buy Kult!

(Whew! I think I got away with it...)


----------



## Peter V

Bee_Abney said:


> And as I've just seen that @Peter V is around, let me just add an addendum - buy it! Buy Kult!
> 
> (Whew! I think I got away with it...)


I wholeheartedly agree: buy that slippers!


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> I completely get that! But I'll also say that for me there is very little gap between coming up with an idea and putting it to work in Falcon. That's not because it is well designed like Dawesome's synths; but just because I've used it a lot.
> 
> You may already have just the thing you need, but might not have logged enough hours with it yet.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Okay, you win 'cutest post' for another day!


----------



## Technostica

kgdrum said:


> …… but please Sweet Bee please elaborate on:
> 
> delayed pleasure………………
> All the best 😘


Bee may be referring to this recent BBC article about her:








The nun and the monk who fell in love and married


How two devoutly religious lives were transformed by a fleeting encounter in a convent.



www.bbc.co.uk





As for slippers, I wear crocs and am currently using the fur lined variety.

I have the Synth Anatomy KULT demo on in the background.
I feel jaded for more synths right now but they do offer an extensive demo period, so one day.


----------



## ControlCentral

Bee_Abney said:


> That's an interesting idea. I wouldn't say that about either Kult or Novum, the two that I have. Other than the EQ in Kult, I'd be happy not to use any of the effects in the effects section. The filters, envelopes, modulation and such - or Syntify in Novum - plus the sound sources are the big deal in my experience. But I do agree that the effects have a distinctive sound that is of a piece with the synths as a whole.
> 
> I view effects as part of the process of sound creation anyway; so I wouldn't mind either way.


Yeah, no judgements about FX, and there are plenty of modulation opportunities but 


> the effects have a distinctive sound that is of a piece with the synths as a whole.


Bottom line, Abyss is a unique synth that's fun to use.


----------



## kgdrum

Technostica said:


> Bee may be referring to this recent BBC article about her:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nun and the monk who fell in love and married
> 
> 
> How two devoutly religious lives were transformed by a fleeting encounter in a convent.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for slippers, I wear crocs and am currently using the fur lined variety.
> 
> I have the Synth Anatomy KULT demo on in the background.
> I feel jaded for more synths right now but they do offer an extensive demo period, so one day.


I really don’t think Bee would ever be referring to anything as quaint as a nun and a monk falling in love. I suspect it would have to be much more sordid in the unconventional realm of traditional church teachings and protocols.


----------



## Bee_Abney

ControlCentral said:


> Yeah, no judgements about FX, and there are plenty of modulation opportunities but
> 
> Bottom line, Abyss is a unique synth that's fun to use.


Sorry, I don't follow. But I also don't have Abyss, so maybe I'm missing something.


----------



## Marsen

Thanks Peter,

got Novum, but without the slippers. 

Not yet my personal style, maybe they’re to… beeish?
(Sorry Bee). 🐝 🙂 🐝


----------



## DoubleTap

Technostica said:


> Bee may be referring to this recent BBC article about her:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nun and the monk who fell in love and married
> 
> 
> How two devoutly religious lives were transformed by a fleeting encounter in a convent.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for slippers, I wear crocs and am currently using the fur lined variety.
> 
> I have the Synth Anatomy KULT demo on in the background.
> I feel jaded for more synths right now but they do offer an extensive demo period, so one day.


Petition to get Peter to change the name to Abbess.


----------



## zvenx

richmwhitfield said:


> Here's a link to some presets I made for NOVUM.



Thanks for these. They kept telling me samples missing though.
rsp


----------



## richmwhitfield

zvenx said:


> Thanks for these. They kept telling me samples missing though.
> rsp


That's really strange. I followed the guide in the manual. Maybe not closely enough. I could embed the samples, but that might increase the download size. 

Will have a look at doing that tomorrow. 

Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Braveheart

Marsen said:


> Thanks Peter,
> 
> got Novum, but without the slippers.
> 
> Not yet my personal style, maybe they’re to… beeish?
> (Sorry Bee). 🐝 🙂 🐝


Watch out for those Bee's Dirty Pads. I got caught up into buying that library too.


----------



## kgdrum

Braveheart said:


> Watch out for those Bee's Dirty Pads. I got caught up into buying that library too.


This is more difficult not responding than you can imagine but I will resist.


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> This is more difficult not responding than you can imagine but I will resist.


Well, you know what the Borg say about resistance...


----------



## sostenuto

..... trying to unravel Collective intelligence as we post. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 
Must be challenging for you at this very late hour. 
Hoping for best !


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Well, you know what the Borg say about resistance...


No I never knew Alban Berg discussed resistance,fascinating!


----------



## Darth Shlomo

Thanks to everyone who provided me with advice and thoughts on Tracktion sales. I went ahead and ordered all of the Dawesome products from JRR Shop.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Darth Shlomo said:


> Thanks to everyone who provided me with advice and thoughts on Tracktion sales. I went ahead and ordered all of the Dawesome products from JRR Shop.


I hope you enjoy them very much!


----------



## Darth Shlomo

Bee_Abney said:


> I hope you enjoy them very much!


Thanks! I’ve really enjoyed the demos so far. Plus, I have a Linnstrument coming later this week and I’m super excited to explore the MPE capabilities of these synths.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Darth Shlomo said:


> Thanks! I’ve really enjoyed the demos so far. Plus, I have a Linnstrument coming later this week and I’m super excited to explore the MPE capabilities of these synths.


Wow, that should be an amazing combination!


----------



## doctoremmet

Darth Shlomo said:


> Thanks! I’ve really enjoyed the demos so far. Plus, I have a Linnstrument coming later this week and I’m super excited to explore the MPE capabilities of these synths.


Whoa, what an awesome combo that is going to be. You’re in for a fun time then!


----------



## Tentype

Darth Shlomo said:


> Thanks! I’ve really enjoyed the demos so far. Plus, I have a Linnstrument coming later this week and I’m super excited to explore the MPE capabilities of these synths.


You won't be disappointed! I bought the entire Dawesome lineup to use with my Linnstrument and now my wife is complaining for the first time ever that I'm TOO expressive. Apparently this combination is better than counseling... 🤷🏽


----------



## Solarsentinel

KULT reminds me a lot of sounds like those from NI KONTOUR. I find them very similar.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Solarsentinel said:


> KULT reminds me a lot of sounds like those from NI KONTOUR. I find them very similar.


Kontour has different wave shaping functions (PM and Wave folding), but the complex shaping and modulation is an overlap and can lead to some similarities in the sounds. Kontour is fantastic in its own right, of course. I think, from memory, that Kult is better at warmer and heftier sounds - or easier to use for them. But I haven’t used Kontour in a while.


----------



## Solarsentinel

Bee_Abney said:


> Kontour has different wave shaping functions (PM and Wave folding), but the complex shaping and modulation is an overlap and can lead to some similarities in the sounds. Kontour is fantastic in its own right, of course. I think, from memory, that Kult is better at warmer and heftier sounds - or easier to use for them. But I haven’t used Kontour in a while.


You'right i find the sound more warmer too.


----------



## Darth Shlomo

Thanks everyone for your vote of confidence in favor of the Linnstrument/Dawesome combination.



Tentype said:


> You won't be disappointed! I bought the entire Dawesome lineup to use with my Linnstrument and now my wife is complaining for the first time ever that I'm TOO expressive. Apparently this combination is better than counseling... 🤷🏽


My wife will be very pleased if the Linnstrument somehow makes me more expressive! For myself, I’m just hoping it allows me to play my synths and virtual instruments a bit better (I’m a guitar player with very limited keyboard skills).


----------



## Bee_Abney

Expressive? Can't you all just growl at each other and talk to the dog like civilised people?


----------



## Alchemedia

sostenuto said:


> Hanging in Cart with all three .... terrible GAS with little pressing need for even one. 🥳
> but it's New Years, right ??


Speaking as your editor, I am pleased to see you have managed to refrain from excessive under_score usage as of late. Now about those ......... 😎


----------



## Bee_Abney

You do realise that we are living in a greenhouse here, right? Put the stones down, please!


----------



## sostenuto

Alchemedia said:


> Speaking as your editor, I am pleased to see you have managed to refrain from excessive under_score usage as of late. Now about those ......... 😎


Global Forum; lacking required keyboard /keyset options. 
Trusting non-English native speakers to be tolerant of loathsome deficiencies. 😳
For others >> 🔫 🔦 🧨


----------



## kgdrum

sostenuto said:


> Global Forum; lacking required keyboard /keyset options.
> Trusting non-English native speakers to be tolerant of loathsome deficiencies. 😳
> For others >> 🔫 🔦 🧨


Why would you think any non-English native speakers should be tolerated for their loathsome deficiencies? We actually find it amusing!
Bee probably gets a kick out of my limited vocabulary,lack of proper grammar and general butchering of the English language,after all I’m American not English.

Speaking of which.
Pendle taught me a new English word today(yes I had to look it up)

cogitation

Besides these pompous English wankers who the hell uses these types of words and talks like that?

@sostenuto

thanks for the entertainment! 🤪


----------



## sostenuto

kgdrum said:


> Why would you think any non-English native speakers should be tolerated for their loathsome deficiencies? We actually find it amusing!
> Bee probably gets a kick out of my limited vocabulary,lack of proper grammar and general butchering of the English language,after all I’m American not English.
> 
> Speaking of which.
> Pendle taught me a new English word today(yes I had to look it up)
> 
> cogitation
> 
> 
> @sostenuto
> 
> thanks for the entertainment! 🤪


_Must cogitate on this_ ️🥴


----------



## kgdrum

sostenuto said:


> _Must cogitate on this_ ️🥴


Don’t be redundant.


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Why would you think any non-English native speakers should be tolerated for their loathsome deficiencies? We actually find it amusing!
> Bee probably gets a kick out of my limited vocabulary,lack of proper grammar and general butchering of the English language,after all I’m American not English.
> 
> Speaking of which.
> Pendle taught me a new English word today(yes I had to look it up)
> 
> cogitation
> 
> Besides these pompous English wankers who the hell uses these types of words and talks like that?
> 
> @sostenuto
> 
> thanks for the entertainment! 🤪


cogito ergo dim sum.


----------



## sostenuto

Several nuns told me I was. 🤷🏻‍♂️

and I'll have the Siu Mai, and Fung Jao plz. 🍗


----------



## Tentype

Bee_Abney said:


> Expressive? Can't you all just growl at each other and talk to the dog like civilised people?


Interestingly, the dog stopped talking to me as soon as my wife started.

Cogitating... cogitating... 🤔


----------



## richmwhitfield

zvenx said:


> Thanks for these. They kept telling me samples missing though.
> rsp


I checked with Peter today and he says there is nothing wrong with the way I am created the pack. A couple of things...

Did you drag and drop it onto the UI?
Could you take a screenshot of the issue please?

Cheers


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> cogito ergo dim sum.


No absolutely not,some of us have standards young lady.

cogito ergo curry definitely 
cogito ergo dim sum,weak.


----------



## kgdrum

richmwhitfield said:


> I checked with Peter today and he says there is nothing wrong with the way I am created the pack. A couple of things...
> 
> Did you drag and drop it onto the UI?
> Could you take a screenshot of the issue please?
> 
> Cheers



Rich- more importantly we must know:

Curry or Dim Sum?


----------



## richmwhitfield

Curry all day!


----------



## kgdrum

richmwhitfield said:


> Curry all day!


Thanks I suspected you’re a Curry aficionado & btw also a big Thank You for your awesome presets.


----------



## richmwhitfield

kgdrum said:


> Thanks I suspected you’re a Curry aficionado & btw also a big Thank You for your awesome presets.


Aficionado, not so much as I rarely get out to restaurants these days, and I can't eat the really hot ones either, but I do love a good curry.

No worries re the presets. Hope you get a little use out of them.


----------



## kgdrum

richmwhitfield said:


> Aficionado, not so much as I rarely get out to restaurants these days, and I can't eat the really hot ones either, but I do love a good curry.
> 
> No worries re the presets. Hope you get a little use out of them.


Curry is actually quite easy to prepare at home,curry paste,simmer sauces are readily available and make creating a curry meal extremely quick and easy. 
Of course this will inspire you to be more creative and make us more of your awesome presets!


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## Technostica

richmwhitfield said:


> Curry all day!


I stayed at an Ashram in Kerala (Southern India) and they served us curry for breakfast.
I was only paying one or two £ full board so I wasn't complaining that much, although papadams and draught lager would have been worth an extra £ per day.
As for Bhajis, I'd have shaved my head and taken a vow of silence for those.

Which reminds me, I may try and get a commission to compose music for the local curry house which has just reopened after a fire.
I could always use a Dawesome synth or two to add some spice to the mix.


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## Tentype

I used Abyss in a short film score for the first time today. What a joy! Rolled my own MPE patch in about 10 minutes after having a passing thought about what kind of sound and movement I wanted to work with. Then I tweaked one of @Databroth 's to work along side it. Hard to put that synth away.


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## Alchemedia

kgdrum said:


> Speaking of which.
> Pendle taught me a new English word today(yes I had to look it up)
> 
> *cogitation*


"the mental action or process of acquiring knowledge and understanding through thought, experience, and the senses."

IOW, the antithesis of what generally occurs here. 
BTW, Percy is a ventriloquist.


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## ChrisSiuMusic

sostenuto said:


> Several nuns told me I was. 🤷🏻‍♂️
> 
> and I'll have the Siu Mai, and Fung Jao plz. 🍗


yummm


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## zvenx

Thanks

That may be my issue, I copied it not dragged it.
Will try that later
rsp



richmwhitfield said:


> I checked with Peter today and he says there is nothing wrong with the way I am created the pack. A couple of things...
> 
> Did you drag and drop it onto the UI?
> Could you take a screenshot of the issue please?
> 
> Cheers


For completeness: Dragging worked.
rsp


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## Wasteland

a first track/sound brut exploration, or what is it called, bases on one instance of KULT, added some other synths, but KULT is the main synth;
i mean the first track that is finished containing KULT;


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## Bee_Abney

Wasteland said:


> a first track/sound brut exploration, or what is it called, bases on one instance of KULT, added some other synths, but KULT is the main synth;
> i mean the first track that is finished containing KULT;



Lots of nice atmospherics there. Almost like a mind meld between a digiridoo and a steampunk rattlesnake.


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## Wasteland

Bee_Abney said:


> Lots of nice atmospherics there. Almost like a mind meld between a digiridoo and a steampunk rattlesnake.



great description; the mind meld, and indeed!!

the Dawesome synths, from the first one, Abyss, are synths that i already felt before launch, with the 'teasers', the will work for me, how i work, quite ad hoc, but i know what i need, and what i have to use it...

i can write a whole story here, about how i work, of course the 'tools' you buy, it are more than tools of course, a soft synth delivers you a basis for a certain kind of sounds.

and i am a spectral-granular addict (well every synthesis i fall for; PD, VPS, FM, AM (audio rate), etc. etc. etc.).

so Abyss and especially Novum, while i still use Abyss, and create extreme sounds with it, it can do a lot, a lot.. but Novum, well they belong together, Abyss and Novum, and eventually, i don't know if that is known here, or if i may say it... will get a connection...

KULT was a suprise, but a suprise that gave me already a lot, a lot of ideas for projects, already in sketch 'mode', so, will take time....
and all great with MPE. i think i already mentioned it, i use 2 x Seabord Blocks (so 4 octaves) + 2 x Lightpad M Bllocks, the latter give you another playing style, that delivers, not always, but you can play it almost only with feeling, also the Seabord Blocks.

for someone with no formal training, i think i managed to master MPE, in my own way, and gives me still new things...

also mastered MPE to make presets from scratch (of course there is always first a soft synth.... but Novum, i also use my own samples, that aren't particular suitable in a way, but with some work, i can get out of worlf sounds).

so i have quite an arsenal of soft synths, also the usual suspects (no serum.... or...), or the more known, and vintage/emulations, a long time i didn't use them anymore, i do use them again, they also can be mangled, especially with MPE, and sometimes MPE isn't necessary, because well...

but the 3 soft synths of Dawesome have a full place next to all other kind of approaches i do use....


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## Bee_Abney

Wasteland said:


> great description; the mind meld, and indeed!!
> 
> the Dawesome synths, from the first one, Abyss, are synths that i already felt before launch, with the 'teasers', the will work for me, how i work, quite ad hoc, but i know what i need, and what i have to use it...
> 
> i can write a whole story here, about how i work, of course the 'tools' you buy, it are more than tools of course, a soft synth delivers you a basis for a certain kind of sounds.
> 
> and i am a spectral-granular addict (well every synthesis i fall for; PD, VPS, FM, AM (audio rate), etc. etc. etc.).
> 
> so Abyss and especially Novum, while i still use Abyss, and create extreme sounds with it, it can do a lot, a lot.. but Novum, well they belong together, Abyss and Novum, and eventually, i don't know if that is known here, or if i may say it... will get a connection...
> 
> KULT was a suprise, but a suprise that gave me already a lot, a lot of ideas for projects, already in sketch 'mode', so, will take time....
> and all great with MPE. i think i already mentioned it, i use 2 x Seabord Blocks (so 4 octaves) + 2 x Lightpad M Bllocks, the latter give you another playing style, that delivers, not always, but you can play it almost only with feeling, also the Seabord Blocks.
> 
> for someone with no formal training, i think i managed to master MPE, in my own way, and gives me still new things...
> 
> also mastered MPE to make presets from scratch (of course there is always first a soft synth.... but Novum, i also use my own samples, that aren't particular suitable in a way, but with some work, i can get out of worlf sounds).
> 
> so i have quite an arsenal of soft synths, also the usual suspects (no serum.... or...), or the more known, and vintage/emulations, a long time i didn't use them anymore, i do use them again, they also can be mangled, especially with MPE, and sometimes MPE isn't necessary, because well...
> 
> but the 3 soft synths of Dawesome have a full place next to all other kind of approaches i do use....


Your approach is fascinating. I don't have MPE devices, but I am a big fan of having hands on control of changing parameters during a performance. Kult makes that really easy with CC assignments.

The future connection between Abyss and Novum has been mentioned around here somewhere. The idea is that Novum will be able to create sounds for use in Abyss. And that will really take Abyss to a whole new level of creative potential. I'm looking forward to it. It really is pretty amazing stuff; and as much as these synths can be used for all sorts of sounds they are great for the ambient, granular, textural side of things.

I recommend in Kult experimenting with the sequencer, delay and reverbs. While not strictly speaking granular, you can get very similar effects by generating lots of short sounds which can then be variously blurred, extended and shortened, sped up, and so on.


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## Darth Shlomo

So, my Linnstrument finally arrived and it is even more fun than I expected, particularly in combination with the Dawesome synths. I still don’t really know what I’m doing—but I’m having a blast figuring it out. Thanks again to everyone who helped push me to buy Abyss, Novum, and Kult. They are all great.


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## Bee_Abney

Darth Shlomo said:


> So, my Linnstrument finally arrived and it is even more fun than I expected, particularly in combination with the Dawesome synths. I still don’t really know what I’m doing—but I’m having a blast figuring it out. Thanks again to everyone who helped push me to buy Abyss, Novum, and Kult. They are all great.


Wild times ahead!


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