# My reverb adventure reaches an end....



## CT (Aug 19, 2020)

I like a lot of reverb on music, whether it's real instruments in real space, or virtual instruments in sample world. Some people think lots of reverb is for beginners only. I think... no.

If you follow the VI-Control Discord, you may have noticed that I've been obnoxiously caught up in reverb experiments over the last few months searching for just the right sound. I've tried pretty much every plugin out there which is available for demo (and where the developer's ridiculous installation process hasn't waylaid me (I won't point fingers here)), and crowd sourced help for those I couldn't (except Altiverb, which remains the last significant one which is mostly unexplored for me). I've also spent most of my life so far listening carefully to large spaces, recorded and in person. Too much tinkering has been happening recently, seeing how close I can push these plugins towards "reality." Finally, I feel that I've arrived at a useful conclusion. 

Keep in mind, I don't have famous ears. I'm just somebody who is particularly interested in this part of making music and the physics behind it. I could be way off, if there's any objective way in which to measure this stuff, or at least way off from what your own ears tell you. Also keep in mind my goal, which is realism, whatever that means. Especially in terms of very long tails. Some plugins that I tried would probably never claim to be built for realism, so this isn't a dismissal of anything not named except in this specific context. Few that I tried, if any, were BAD. Some were just less appropriate for my needs.

The four "winners" were, in order of overall sound and experience from best to less best: Seventh Heaven Professional, Valhalla Room, Flux/IRCAM Verb, Relab LX480.

Starting with the LX480, it just sounds fantastic. It provides enough control to get close to what I was after, but it's still a model of something inherently a bit unreal (though this clearly doesn't *necessarily* matter based on my top pick) and so falls a little short. But man, does it sound nice, and I was surprised how flexible it was.

Of these four, Verb might have the potential for the most realistic sound. At any settings, it seems to treat whatever you feed it in a way that no other reverb I've tried does: it makes it sound like something that's actually further away from you, instead of something that's just filtered etc. That said, as you might expect from something involving IRCAM, it's quite powerful... maybe too powerful. To get the most out of its parameters, you need some fair understanding of acoustics, and even then, it seems like a bit of a crapshoot. This isn't remedied by the stripped-down Verb Session, which ends up not being tweakable enough. So while there seems to be immense potential in this one, it's the most difficult to get good results with.

Valhalla Room. I've used Valhalla Room almost exclusively for about four years now. It was always the one to beat when I've tried other stuff, and nothing ever did. It's not perfect, but it has a certain tangible life and excitement to it that I haven't been able to find elsewhere. 

But... I sold it yesterday, and will be getting Seventh Heaven Professional later today, barring any major changes of heart. What this one slightly lacks compared to Valhalla Room, that sense of chaos/real air, it makes up for in a more appealing overall tone. The basic version of the plugin was not enough for me to dial in the sound I wanted, so I'm glad iLok wouldn't let me demo it a second time and forced me into the full version. The enthusiasm about it is justified. I get the feeling from it that I'm hearing sound reflect off of real stone, as in a cathedral. Beautiful tone.

One thing I will say about my move away from Valhalla Room: I think it may have to do with a change in the samples I use. When I first got Valhalla Room, I was still using relatively dry, un-positioned stuff. For that purpose, I suspect it may still work better than Seventh Heaven. However, having moved on to using pretty much only in-situ VIs, I'm looking for something else to be added to the sound, which Seventh Heaven provides more effectively.

Anyway, pointless post which is meant to just consolidate my thoughts on this I guess. Maybe now I can find my way back to actually doing some music. I hope you're all well!


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## studiostuff (Aug 19, 2020)

You sold a $50 reverb...?


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## CT (Aug 19, 2020)

Yes.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Aug 19, 2020)

I share your enthusiasm for Relab LX480, which I've demoed.

Strangely enough it sounds more "real" to me than for instance EW Spaces II.

I remember running a cello from EWHO through the Wooden Room-preset on the Relab LX480 and thinking to myself: "this sounds like a celloist playing in a real room".

Whereas many reverbs to me sound like...reverbs. Like something that's been artificially put onto the original sound.


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## drews (Aug 19, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> I share your enthusiasm for Relab LX480, which I've demoed.
> 
> Strangely enough it sounds more "real" to me than for instance EW Spaces II.
> 
> ...


The LX480 has been ingrained into our heads since childhood, i think thats why everyone loves it so much including myself. i think Lexicon's own version plugins sounds a tiny bit better but theres no more development for it and the lead developer left a while ago so its a dead plugin.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Aug 19, 2020)

That's a good point, @drews


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## doctoremmet (Aug 19, 2020)

Great post @Mike T - thanks. Of these four, I have 7H (albeit Core) and the LX480. I am probably the only forum member (well, now you are #2) who doesn’t own Valhalla Rooms. I am curious, is there a Discord backlog somewhere where one can trace back your reverb journey? I am curious why other contenders failed. I love reverb shootouts! Also very curious about the differences in sound between 7H Core vs Pro. Did you test the Relab VSR S24 as well?


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## CT (Aug 19, 2020)

I don't know if it'd be worth going over my ramblings again. Wouldn't be easy to do in any case. The main things working against others typically had to do with how different frequencies decayed over time/how adjustable this was, how the "attack" of the wet signal behaved, the reaction to abruptly stopping loud sounds (i.e. releasing a tutti pipe organ chord), and the quality of any filters being used, high or low.

The difference between the Seventh Heaven versions is in how programmable they are, not the sound, though Pro has many more IRs if I understand it correctly. 

I did not try the other Relab, sorry.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 19, 2020)

Mike T said:


> I don't know if it'd be worth going over my ramblings again. Wouldn't be easy to do in any case. The main things working against others typically had to do with how different frequencies decayed over time/how adjustable this was, how the "attack" of the wet signal behaved, the reaction to abruptly stopping loud sounds (i.e. releasing a tutti pipe organ chord), and the quality of any filters being used, high or low.
> 
> The difference between the Seventh Heaven versions is in how programmable they are, not the sound, though Pro has many more IRs if I understand it correctly.
> 
> I did not try the other Relab, sorry.


Np! I quite enjoyed your concluding remarks in the initial post!


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## Pier (Aug 19, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I am probably the only forum member (well, now you are #2) who doesn’t own Valhalla Rooms.



I sold Room too a couple of weeks ago, along with other Valhalla plugins I never use.

I kept Plate and VVV which get the most use from me. I think Pro R is more realistic and works better on acoustic material, but somehow I prefer these two for electronic stuff.


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## dgburns (Aug 19, 2020)

Your reverb journey has just begun my young aprentice


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## CT (Aug 19, 2020)

No, I think this has been quite enough. The only step I can take from here is purchasing a cathedral.


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## dgburns (Aug 19, 2020)

Mike T said:


> No, I think this has been quite enough. The only step I can take from here is purchasing a cathedral.



Yes, the sound in the real thing is on another level. Especially those in France and Italy, if you’ve had the chance to explore. I was in the Vatican, and it was a glorious reverb. Been in the church in Cremona, Italy too, that’s the town that Stadivarius and Amati lived in, it had a tail that went on forever, actually too long-they would have heard it too, it was around in their day.

I used a Lexicon 480 back in the day, the reverb is fake, but pleasing. You will find others in your quest for that 3d sound that real life gives you. We’re a long way off. I’ve resigned myself to just accept it.

Right now, for me it’s all about surround reverb. That list narrows down alot.

Valhalla room is good, but it’s a stab at that swirly lexicon sound. B2 from 2C Audio is still my fav for stereo. Cinematic Rooms is the best right now for surround. Next year it will be a new list, lol.


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## jononotbono (Aug 19, 2020)

I do love Valhalla Rooms but I just bought Creative Rooms Pro and am loving that now! I really want to try Seventh Heaven after now realising how good Creative Rooms is.


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## Trace (Aug 20, 2020)

I’m new here, but I am surprised that no one in this thread uses Altiverb. I have Valhalla, and the LiquidSonics verbs that come with the Slate subscription. I also have all of the UA and Waves verbs. UA does a respectable impression of the Lexicon verbs, if not entirely authentic. Yet, with all of these, Altiverb gets used most.

if I need a more soundesigny type of verb, I’ll sometimes use Reaktor. i will also combine verbs for this purpose.

interesting thread.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 20, 2020)

Altiverb was (or maybe still is) Jake Jackson’s favorite reverb, IIRC from the Spitfire Audio blind tests they did (which are great fun to watch). For convolution a lot of folks here prefer Spaces (II). I tend to use 7H and for other IRs Waves IR1. Also, a lot of algorhitmic ones of course. Altiverb absolutely gets a lot of attention and love when you search for some of the older threads on here. No worries!


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## Trace (Aug 20, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Altiverb was (or maybe still is) Jake Jackson’s favorite reverb, IIRC from the Spitfire Audio blind tests they did (which are great fun to watch). For convolution a lot of folks here prefer Spaces (II). I tend to use 7H and for other IRs Waves IR1. Also, a lot of algorhitmic ones of course. Altiverb absolutely gets a lot of attention and love when you search for some of the older threads on here. No worries!


No worries. I’m definitely an equal opportunity sound addict. My view is, whatever you as an artist prefer, that’s the right tool. Everyone has a personal aesthetic.


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## CT (Aug 20, 2020)

I expect great things from Altiverb for a couple reasons, but they don't offer any demos and the price is quite steep to go in relatively blind, especially when the list of IRs that I'm interested in is so small compared to the entire collection. Similar to why I still don't have Omnisphere....


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## I like music (Aug 20, 2020)

@Mike T did you ever have the chance to try reverberate 2? Wondering what the differences are in verb quality. 

Though I had forgotten that 7th heaven offered a trial. May just do the trial!


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## CT (Aug 20, 2020)

They're extremely similar, at least, the Bricasti stuff is.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 20, 2020)

Trace said:


> No worries. I’m definitely an equal opportunity sound addict. My view is, whatever you as an artist prefer, that’s the right tool. Everyone has a personal aesthetic.


Absolutely, couldn’t agree more!


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 20, 2020)

well 7h is one of my staples. and the first thing to teach for if it sounds good without reverb.

it's a great purchase. I could live with 7h(professional) and altiverb and never need anything else. even if I prefer something - those two cover a ton of ground.

the key factor is that they have a lot of tools to sculpt the reverb. making sure I'm not adding something I don't want


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## marius_dm (Aug 20, 2020)

I have the $60 Seventh Heaven. It’s the most transparent and “real” reverb I’ve ever heard


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 20, 2020)

dgburns said:


> Your reverb journey has just begun my young aprentice



So many more reverbs yet to buy.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 20, 2020)

marius_dm said:


> I have the $60 Seventh Heaven. It’s the most transparent and “real” reverb I’ve ever heard


I have also fallen for this one, like many.


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## Will Blackburn (Aug 20, 2020)

Only verb im always going back to is B2, nothing has replaced it for me yet.. Should check out the Past to Future impulse responses as well they are excellent, great for getting an old school reverb flavour.


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## Scalms (Aug 20, 2020)

Mike T said:


> I expect great things from Altiverb for a couple reasons, but they don't offer any demos and the price is quite steep to go in relatively blind, especially when the list of IRs that I'm interested in is so small compared to the entire collection. Similar to why I still don't have Omnisphere....


Actually Altiverb do offer demos (I know because I demoed it), just send them an email. Best thing I ever did because in demoing it I realized it was fine enough but nothing special and waaay too expensive for me. I loved SpacesII so I went with that one, but my journey ended with....7th Heaven Pro too, go figure! The pro version has the cathedral and South church presets which are just heaven to my ears


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## CT (Aug 20, 2020)

Will Blackburn said:


> Only verb im always going back to is B2, nothing has replaced it for me yet.. Should check out the Past to Future impulse responses as well they are excellent, great for getting an old school reverb flavour.



I have to say, I found the 2C stuff the most difficult to get something "real" out of, but that doesn't necessarily say anything about the plugins themselves. One, I think Aether, had some awesome far out stuff for weird sounds.


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## I like music (Aug 20, 2020)

Scalms said:


> Actually Altiverb do offer demos (I know because I demoed it), just send them an email. Best thing I ever did because in demoing it I realized it was fine enough but nothing special and waaay too expensive for me. I loved SpacesII so I went with that one, but my journey ended with....7th Heaven Pro too, go figure! The pro version has the cathedral and South church presets which are just heaven to my ears


You find yourself using the pro features a lot?


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## Scalms (Aug 20, 2020)

I like music said:


> You find yourself using the pro features a lot?


If I have to be honest, no, maybe my ears are not reverb-sensitive enough, but when I change the dials I don’t hear too much difference in sound, so they tend to be micro controls to me not macro, if that makes sense, just slight nuance changes. The reason I recommend Pro is because it comes with more presets, and ones like Cathedral, which is not in the standard. But the standard does have the scoring stage preset which I use the most. So in the end I recommend doing the demo of 7th heaven std and pro and see what you like better, and then u can let me know if the dials actually do anything! 😆


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## kgdrum (Aug 20, 2020)

I love Liquidsonics! I have both 7H and 7HPro
They are both amazing,I bought 7HPro first and it’s amazing! 😘
Subsequently I bought 7H during a BF sale($40) for the times I wanted to use 7H but wanted a simplified approach to get the beautiful 7H sound quickly.
I like having both 👍


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## I like music (Aug 20, 2020)

Scalms said:


> If I have to be honest, no, maybe my ears are not reverb-sensitive enough, but when I change the dials I don’t hear too much difference in sound, so they tend to be micro controls to me not macro, if that makes sense, just slight nuance changes. The reason I recommend Pro is because it comes with more presets, and ones like Cathedral, which is not in the standard. But the standard does have the scoring stage preset which I use the most. So in the end I recommend doing the demo of 7th heaven std and pro and see what you like better, and then u can let me know if the dials actually do anything! 😆


Thank you! I have terrible ears, which is why I always ask others their opinions. Will do the trial and see if the knobs do anything, haha!


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## Patrick de Caumette (Aug 20, 2020)

No mention of Cinematic Rooms?!


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## CT (Aug 20, 2020)

It's ok! It didn't stand out to me much though, in the end. I also have no need for the surround functionality.


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## whinecellar (Aug 20, 2020)

Man, I can really relate to the OP in a lot of ways. I’m a reverb junkie and am extremely picky, so, I’m always on the hunt for a new flavor. And since all reverbs are really dependent on source material, what sounds great on one source might sound terrible on something else. 

Anyway, lots of great stuff mentioned so far in this thread, but I thought I’d throw another contender in the ring: Acon Digital Verberate 2. This is one of the most incredible I’ve heard at delivering truly real-sounding spaces, especially solo instruments like piano, classical guitar, solo strings, etc. It’s definitely got something special. And since it’s algorithmic, it can do gorgeous modulated tails a la Lexicon - but with a sense of real space. Anyway, give it a free demo. It’s become one of my go-to’s.


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## I like music (Aug 21, 2020)

@Mike T do you do the 1) convo for er and then 2) tail verb for gelling, thing?


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## CT (Aug 21, 2020)

Nope. I used to be a little (a lot) more brainy with that stuff, but now that I don't use anything that needs positioning, I just slap a single instance over everything, or the stuff I want in the same bigger room at least. I will sometimes adjust ER/tail settings though, depending on if I feel like the generated ERs are needlessly interfering with the natural ones in the samples.

I do sometimes use two layers to simulate more real space and then an "effect" reverb that might be added to the mix. Two is, of course, nothing compared to how I've seen some people layer these things....


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 21, 2020)

Mike T said:


> Nope. I used to be a little (a lot) more brainy with that stuff, but now that I don't use anything that needs positioning, I just slap a single instance over everything, or the stuff I want in the same bigger room at least. I will sometimes adjust ER/tail settings though, depending on if I feel like the generated ERs are needlessly interfering with the natural ones in the samples.
> 
> I do sometimes use two layers to simulate a larger real space and then an "effect" reverb that might be added to the mix. Two is, of course, nothing compared to how I've seen some people layer these things....


ditching modelled instruments has been the most stress relieving thing I've done. 

figuring out ways to make sampled instruments more expressive has been a better way to spend my time than endlessly figetting with sample modelling and some long drawn out NASA fueled reverb chain.


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## CT (Aug 21, 2020)

Jeez, my reverb scheme at the end was absurd, yeah.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 21, 2020)

I like music said:


> @Mike T do you do the 1) convo for er and then 2) tail verb for gelling, thing?


I still do, although I have replaced the 1) convo for 1) EAReverb2 nowadays (but have just purchased DearVR as well). But didn’t you get the memo over in the Aaron Venture thread? The new new thing is the Hallelujah effect! We may need to purchase expense hardware for our 19” racks. Sorry, it’s the only way


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 21, 2020)

Mike T said:


> Jeez, my reverb scheme at the end was absurd, yeah.


to back that up, I provided an example on scoreclub of why I'm working this hard on making my sampled instruments respond musically - here is a celli legato patch, played in real time - a little rushed at a point, but with no reverb and no crazy amounts of EQ(mainly to make it sound more "hollywood") it goes from a somber almost weeping cello line, i pause for a moment, arm the contrabass using the same setup but an octave below - and a dangerous, menacing, lurking sound.


I can pretty much track anything with either a longs patch or a shorts patch and swap individual notes out for the fine-tuned articulation in no time... adventurous line? sure - load up some sort of portato, expressivo, or decrescendo patch, play it in... then swap out the shorter notes for spiccato, staccato, martele, or a Sfz - heck even a single trill. Now even adding in runs is easy with very little fuss.

In the future it'll be a little more reasonable I'm sure, but at the moment - samples can be used in ways that are plenty musical enough to save me the hassle of dealing with creating a fake space and trying to acheive any real sense of punch. It might take me some more ram, but my CPU thanks me that it isn't running multiple chains of convos, reverbs, MB, delays, and EQs.


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## I like music (Aug 21, 2020)

Thanks @Mike T and @ProfoundSilence .i ask because of sample meddling strings. 

Due to my computer being very old and low on CPU power (and the fact that I am not going to spend much more money on music stuff in the coming year) I am trying to get them to sit nicely with my infinite stuff, using nothing but their own spatialisation features + some stock convo verb. 

I feel everyday that I've got this right, and then I AB them against Hollywood Strings and CSS, and there's a 5% missing, but that 5% may as well be 50% because that final sheen/air which seems to be missing, suddenly feels amplified. 

I still love the SM strings but this is currently the biggest bug in my otherwise happy life. So close yet so far with that feeling of the strings being in space.


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## I like music (Aug 21, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I still do, although I have replaced the 1) convo for 1) EAReverb2 nowadays (but have just purchased DearVR as well). But didn’t you get the memo over in the Aaron Venture thread? The new new thing is the Hallelujah effect! We may need to purchase expense hardware for our 19” racks. Sorry, it’s the only way



Haha ive been Googling this effect! I really hope it doesn't lead to more money being spent.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 21, 2020)

I like music said:


> Haha ive been Googling this effect! I really hope it doesn't lead to more money being spent.


I have decided to deny it
for the duration of this weekend


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 21, 2020)

I like music said:


> Thanks @Mike T and @ProfoundSilence .i ask because of sample meddling strings.
> 
> Due to my computer being very old and low on CPU power (and the fact that I am not going to spend much more money on music stuff in the coming year) I am trying to get them to sit nicely with my infinite stuff, using nothing but their own spatialisation features + some stock convo verb.
> 
> ...


FWIW, before I gave up on adding any real girth to SM - I realized that you really cannot amplify something that isn't already there. Tried all sorts of subharmonic boosters and whatnot - but my trail left at this:

creating pitched down versions of the instrument, with the drop rounded off. 

trying to get it to add a hint of bottom end without messing up the whole harmonic structure(strenght of overtones is actually what creates a recognizable timbre) before going into a reverb. 

ofcourse in this example, I had like -.5 db in the 3.2k area and a bit of a low shelf past 7k - with a slash of altiverb on it's default setting - but maybe this is part of the key to getting it to work. Try having a super quite +12 or +24 double of SM strings to add that top end "sheen". just start at 0 and blend it in until it's on the cusp of being noticeable.


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## CT (Aug 21, 2020)

I like music said:


> I feel everyday that I've got this right, and then I AB them against Hollywood Strings and CSS, and there's a 5% missing, but that 5% may as well be 50% because that final sheen/air which seems to be missing, suddenly feels amplified.



It's a real wormhole to go down, definitely. 

I know this has been discussed ad nauseam, but this is another reason why I am skeptical about some of these libraries. Yes, sometimes traditional samples end up sounding a little awkward as far as performance/phrasing, but the way the brain (especially the average brain that isn't so attuned to the real thing) reacts to that is different from how it reacts to something that doesn't have any/enough subconsciously perceived and understood spatial information in it. That's something which all of our brains are wired for at an absolutely fundamental level, and to which we are physiologically extremely sensitive. When it isn't there, or it's faked, we know it, and it feels not quite right.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 21, 2020)

at one time, I literally every individual instrument from sample modeling have an instance of mir pro, then another instance per section, which wasn't used by the section.

Then I had each individual instrument send a small amount to each other instrument(i.e. trumpet 1 got a little more of trumpet 2, and trumpet 3 had less on the send and was panned further to the right - while trumpet 2 had an equal amount of trumpet 1 and 3, with the panning being different)

then each one was sent to a "delay" bus - where I counted the feet in MIR pro with a ruler, calculated the MS delay it would take to hit it, then sent trumpets 1 2 3 to this "bleed delay" bus. this would then branch off into 2 seperate sub buses, one with the exact delay before hitting the horn section verb, and the other before hitting the trombone section(which was much closer)

the result? a very creative way to create very realistic phasing and a not so cost efficient way to heat my room.


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## I like music (Aug 21, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> at one time, I literally every individual instrument from sample modeling have an instance of mir pro, then another instance per section, which wasn't used by the section.
> 
> Then I had each individual instrument send a small amount to each other instrument(i.e. trumpet 1 got a little more of trumpet 2, and trumpet 3 had less on the send and was panned further to the right - while trumpet 2 had an equal amount of trumpet 1 and 3, with the panning being different)
> 
> ...


'Fuck that!' My brain, family, my wallet and my CPU say in unison. 

I have a lot of thinking to do on this. Luckily I have csb, CSS, infinites and Hollywood orchestra. Perhaps ill just make 2 separate templates (one more modelling focused) and one more traditional, and just do it piece by piece. 

Your way sounds creative but right now I couldn't hope to match that.


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## CT (Aug 21, 2020)

Oh man, yeah, I used to do "bleed" stuff too... and the sound reflecting off the wall opposite the player (maybe just brass).


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 21, 2020)

I like music said:


> 'Fuck that!' My brain, family, my wallet and my CPU say in unison.
> 
> I have a lot of thinking to do on this. Luckily I have csb, CSS, infinites and Hollywood orchestra. Perhaps ill just make 2 separate templates (one more modelling focused) and one more traditional, and just do it piece by piece.
> 
> Your way sounds creative but right now I couldn't hope to match that.



well Aaron's libraries are a step in the more palatable direction for sure. 

I'd certainly say that reverbs need to be tiered to mimic microphones. 

i.e. one mid sized studio send one larger room, and lastly a hall. a single large hall on an anchechoic recording is too easy to spot


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 21, 2020)

Mike T said:


> Oh man, yeah, I used to do "bleed" stuff too... and the sound reflecting off the wall opposite the player (maybe just brass).


might be forever scarred.


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## I like music (Aug 21, 2020)

Mike T said:


> Oh man, yeah, I used to do "bleed" stuff too... and the sound reflecting off the wall opposite the player (maybe just brass).


I am assuming based on your other posts that you don't do all this now. Is it because the tradeoff in effort and resource was not worth it, or because it didn't actually have any impact at all?


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## CT (Aug 21, 2020)

I like music said:


> I am assuming based on your other posts that you don't do all this now. Is it because the tradeoff in effort and resource was not worth it, or because it didn't actually have any impact at all?



I kind of got sick of it. It appealed to the physicist in me but the musical result wasn't worth it. I decided I'd rather have to work at refining a fake performance instead of asymptotically approach a kind of slightly but not really ok impression of an orchestra in a room. Sometimes I entertain the thought of going back, but I know it's a greener grass thing.



ProfoundSilence said:


> I'd certainly say that reverbs need to be tiered to mimic microphones.



Yeah. Just dumping it onto something doesn't work. Fake mic positions is the way to approach it. First something simple to add a little body, then send that to something more roomy but first maybe narrow the signal a bit and start taking away some frequencies, then do another send with more "distant" settings, etc., then a tail over everything... oy vey.


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## tomosane (Aug 21, 2020)

I love ValhallaRoom and especially VVV, but I gotta say having recently bought PhoenixVerb and R4 for I think less than 50€ total, Valhalla's status as the canonical bang-for-buck reverbs might be over for now

Though I also have to praise Valhalla for having the most no-nonsense kind of activation scheme, where you can do it completely offline and without any kind of machine-specific code. Keeping those two reverbs backed up on several different physical locations is thus quite reassuring for a tech doomer like myself -- no telling when you can no longer activate those other plugins on a new laptop! I think I could get by fine with just VR and VVV, even if all else goes to shit.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 21, 2020)

that's the best way to look at it, sick of it. 

I didn't unlearn anything, but I did learn to appreciate good sampling. 

the issue is that competing with high sonic quality, it's an uncanny valley problem, where you could spend thousands more and increase your experimentation and get closer but never there

some people are happy with good enough and move on. even master SM wizard samy cheboub made a tutorial on SM because it kept changing. Before he disappeared back into the aether he was singing high praise of century brass, so I suspect he surrendered back to samples himself. 

it was a fun adventure, no regret. but now I'm polar opposite and I have no reverb on my template and i have only EQ'd my strings here and there and feel like that's cost me in ram but saved my soul


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## Akarin (Aug 21, 2020)

I read all the reverb threads. I buy many reverb plugins... ...I always go back to Spaces 2 for convo, VSS3 for tails and Valhalla for sound design 🤷‍♂️


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## doctoremmet (Aug 21, 2020)

Akarin said:


> I read all the reverb threads. I buy many reverb plugins... ...I always go back to Spaces 2 for convo, VSS3 for tails and Valhalla for sound design 🤷‍♂️


But.... you ARE able to make a reverb shootout with ALL the stuff you have. Bring out Bob, just as with the gazillion string libraries video 🙏


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## CT (Aug 21, 2020)

VSS3 was one of the most surprising letdowns for me! Again, as far as what my goal was... it seems squarely to be an "effect" reverb added for gloss, and not nearly as useful for any kind of real space.


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## I like music (Aug 21, 2020)

Mike T said:


> I kind of got sick of it. It appealed to the physicist in me but the musical result wasn't worth it. I decided I'd rather have to work at refining a fake performance instead of asymptotically approach a kind of slightly but not really ok impression of an orchestra in a room. Sometimes I entertain the thought of going back, but I know it's a greener grass thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Just dumping it onto something doesn't work. Fake mic positions is the way to approach it. First something simple to add a little body, then send that to something more roomy but first maybe narrow the signal a bit and start taking away some frequencies, then do another send with more "distant" settings, etc., then a tail over everything... oy vey.


OK this sounds super interesting but I'm not sure exactly what this approach would look like. Specifically, are you saying to effectively mimic three mics by staging 3 verbs, with each verb creating a different depth? Can you just throw three of them on the instrument? And is the objective to get just the ER portion from the different layers and then finally a tail verb? Sorry for the questions but this is the final piece of the puzzle for me and my many years of stumbling around not actually making music. Any help appreciated! 

Please do let me know if off topic.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 21, 2020)

I like music said:


> OK this sounds super interesting but I'm not sure exactly what this approach would look like. Specifically, are you saying to effectively mimic three mics by staging 3 verbs, with each verb creating a different depth? Can you just throw three of them on the instrument? And is the objective to get just the ER portion from the different layers and then finally a tail verb? Sorry for the questions but this is the final piece of the puzzle for me and my many years of stumbling around not actually making music. Any help appreciated!
> 
> Please do let me know if off topic.


you send them seperately. 

i.e. 

first send: basic room sound - something to create ambience and a short "tail"
then you send a medium size room, this adds some more body and resonance. 

then you send a 3rd "tail" which is a longer verb. 

these can certainly have different length pre-delays if you'd like - and different pre-EQ. 

the idea is that this overlap gives body and fades out - while also creating a logical stepping stone from ultra close to far away(or in a big room)


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 21, 2020)

@I like music


I just tried to toss something together.

A rather far away mix - and that's more or less just based on the kind of random combination of things I grabbed the best sound came from a pretty far back sound mixing.

with careful programming it would work well enough.

That said, I kind of rolled the IR dice - and the most believable result involved leaning heavily towards the further IR's rather than the closer IR's.

I kind of blame that on the weird room that I picked for the middle verb, and the smoothed out/pushed back sound of SP2016 working better as some extra "shine" onto the teldex IR.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 21, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> @I like music
> 
> 
> I just tried to toss something together.
> ...



Nice!!


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## I like music (Aug 21, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> @I like music
> 
> 
> I just tried to toss something together.
> ...



Thanks so much for going to the effort. Once the kids are down I'll look at this! Once again, massive thanks!


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## CT (Aug 21, 2020)

I can't make a snazzy screencast or anything but that's the gist of it. It's just treating the original signal several times simultaneously with different stereo perspectives/widths, EQ curves, and short reverb "blooms" to simulate the effect of different recording positions. This way you smooth out the transition from the original dry sound to the final sound, and you add some more chaos into things, which always helps something feel more natural.


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## I like music (Aug 21, 2020)

Looking forward to watching it! My 4G isn't strong enough to stream it but I'm back home tomorrow so itching to experiment this way. 

Glad I visited this thread as I would never have considered this approach in a million years. I always chucked on a single reverb and prayed.


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## Joël Dollié (Aug 21, 2020)

My personal findings about reverbs is that they're all good for different things

- Valhalla room if you want a chorus effect instead of a reverb
- VSS3 if you want extreme stereo width, tonal clarity and a good amount of distance
- Bricasti if you want the maximum distance but at the expense of a bit of clarity (smearing)
- LXP (lexicon) if you want good stereo field, some distance but preserving clarity and the original tonal balance. LXP has some of the best plates and halls ever imo.
-Lexicon 480 is like the modern lexicons but a bit less clear, and doesn't "glue" as realistically. Maybe for special applications

So If I have a lot choir that's already kinda muddy but I wanna add a bit of depth, probably Lexicon, if I really want to add distance, maybe on a solo instrument ,bricasti.. They're all good for different things.

Of course by tweaking the settings you can get different results but they all kind of keep certain characteristics due to the algorithms.


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## CT (Aug 21, 2020)

Yeah, even if almost every parameter is duplicated between two and so can be set identically, the algorithms themselves/the filters/how the modulation is handled etc. will all still produce something quite different. 

My feeling after all this is as you said: most of these excel at particular applications and are somewhat weaker for others. Seventh Heaven feels like perhaps the most versatile to me, but this is such a subjective thing dependent on our ears and how we interact with the plugins.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 21, 2020)

@I like music

2 for one special.

The superior combo is infinite + sample modeling into the same reverb.



I felt like I was giving SM a bad name by my really legathic attempt at it(remember what I said about being always unhappy)

that said, I know it's a bit off topic - but I added more info, how to EQ each aux, and here's an example with actual samples playing using that combination(the a2 trumpet using SM+infinite)

it can certainly work - but in order to get a big full sound it's a ton of effort.


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## CT (Aug 21, 2020)

You're gonna make me relapse.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 21, 2020)

Mike T said:


> You're gonna make me relapse.


grass is brown man, put the pipe down - you don't need an impulse of it. 

fwiw you know trumpet is easier to get rolling than the horns/bones


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## I like music (Aug 22, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> @I like music
> 
> 2 for one special.
> 
> ...




Damn! That sounds superb. I can really feel the room and the space invetween me and tbe instruments... 

I still havent been able to check out the walk throughs but later when I'm home I want to replicate with infinite + SM strings. 

I dont think you have SM strings right? Assuming the same concept will work (to a more or less degree)


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 22, 2020)

I like music said:


> Damn! That sounds superb. I can really feel the room and the space invetween me and tbe instruments...
> 
> I still havent been able to check out the walk throughs but later when I'm home I want to replicate with infinite + SM strings.
> 
> I dont think you have SM strings right? Assuming the same concept will work (to a more or less degree)


I dont, but i used to have audio modelling. still trying to sell my roli so i can be free from the curse


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## I like music (Aug 22, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I dont, but i used to have audio modelling. still trying to sell my roli so i can be free from the curse


I came in wanting to know about Mike's verb journey. 

I'm leaving wanting to buy JXL, SM trumpets and a better CPU for the new verbs I'll be buying... 

Sadly roli not on my buy list


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## CT (Aug 22, 2020)

I like music said:


> I'm leaving wanting to buy SM everything



Yeah....


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 22, 2020)

Ita a vicious cycle... Mike and I are veterans of the 2nd modeling war... we didn't heed the dire warnings of @Saxer and his scars from wivi(that I think he still uses occasionally). Wallander himself retired from that cause to build note performer, the literal opposite of a playable instrument. 

meanwhile, conflict and strife between SM and AM, @aaronventure took this as a perfect opportunity to hijack the neutral nations in opposition. I've probably aged an entire 6 months extra because of space wars. 

Mike and I are trying to enjoy our recovery, and yet in celebration we do a little bump of Predelay and next thing you know on trying to drag him out from under the sink, where he was trying to pull out the U trap. shouting "ITS NOT WET ENOUGH, IM STILL DRY". 

also, I'm streaming right now, but I had to take a crap, so sorry if you're one of the few waiting on me to return.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 22, 2020)

@Mike T



stay with me buddy.

that's samples - with 0 reverb. Ya don't need no stinkin modelled instruments. I kept changing the ending so it got a little weird after being moved around a bunch - so it's not as smooth(mostly because it doesn't make any musical sense with or without programming it better)

and it wasn't teeth pulling to program, although I am spending quite a lot of time being a perfectionist balancing articulations, once I drop them in, they just work how I expect


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## Denkii (Aug 22, 2020)

After getting 7th heaven pro last year, I just simply stopped caring about reverbs.

I'd like to get altiverb eventually for easily putting Foley into it's place but that's really just a purchase for convenience rather than being necessary.


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## I like music (Aug 22, 2020)

Denkii said:


> After getting 7th heaven pro last year, I just simply stopped caring about reverbs.
> 
> I'd like to get altiverb eventually for easily putting Foley into it's place but that's really just a purchase for convenience rather than being necessary.



So much love for 7th heaven. Definitely going to trial it. I'm hoping it doesn't provide anything more than Reverberate 2 because I don't want to spend money. 

What kind of stuff are you using it for? Standard orchestral?


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## Denkii (Aug 22, 2020)

I like music said:


> So much love for 7th heaven. Definitely going to trial it. I'm hoping it doesn't provide anything more than Reverberate 2 because I don't want to spend money.
> 
> What kind of stuff are you using it for? Standard orchestral?


I'm not exaggerating when I'm saying I use it for everything. I don't even look at any other reverbs any more.

Edit: that's a lie. I DO put black hole on pianos sometimes. Apart from that, it wasn't a lie.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 22, 2020)

My approach is much simpler generally and I am happy with it. Each section goes to a different instance of EW Spaces II and all send to a plate for gloss.

For pop stuff, the UAD Lexicon 224 gets employed a lot, but I just demoed the UAD Capitol Chambers and that is a gorgeous sound.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 22, 2020)

I like music said:


> So much love for 7th heaven. Definitely going to trial it. I'm hoping it doesn't provide anything more than Reverberate 2 because I don't want to spend money.
> 
> What kind of stuff are you using it for? Standard orchestral?


Watch that one Cory Pelizarri video - his 7H love letter. It convinced me. Got Core for $69. Incredible sound. Yes, it is my go to for tails in orchestral mixes.


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## I like music (Aug 22, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Watch that one Cory Pelizarri video - his 7H love letter. It convinced me. Got Core for $69. Incredible sound. Yes, it is my go to for tails in orchestral mixes.


I shall do so! I like and value Cory's views. Thanks.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 22, 2020)




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## doctoremmet (Aug 22, 2020)

I like music said:


> I like and value Cory's views.


@Cory Pelizzari rocks!


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## Denkii (Aug 22, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> @Cory Pelizzari rocks!


Indeed. Very fine dude.


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 22, 2020)

I like music said:


> So much love for 7th heaven. Definitely going to trial it. I'm hoping it doesn't provide anything more than Reverberate 2 because I don't want to spend money.
> 
> What kind of stuff are you using it for? Standard orchestral?



Counter point: not everyone loves Seventh Heaven. I’d donate it if someone gave it to me.

100% worth a demo (maybe Rooms even more so). Lots of people love it. Some don’t.


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## I like music (Aug 22, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> @I like music
> 
> 2 for one special.
> 
> ...



Once again, thanks for this. Will spend this week trial-and-erroring it and seeing if I can get my SM strings to sit better. This sounded great.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 22, 2020)

I have to say, Leonardo Gardini makes the SM strings sound great.


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## Jkist (Aug 28, 2020)

This was a fascinating thread to read haha. Very cool of you to share your thoughts and findings. I am considering picking up Spaces on sale right now. I remember hearing demos of the 7th Heaven verb, and being completely blown away. Then somehow I totally forgot about it. I think I'm gonna pick it up, at $60 for the basic version, hard to say no


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## CT (Aug 28, 2020)

I actually still haven't bought it. Holding out for a sale/someone wanting to sell their license... and waiting to see what the near future might hold for reverb....


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## envahisseur.delespace (Sep 9, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> @I like music
> 
> 
> I just tried to toss something together.
> ...



Hi, and thank you all for this enlightening discussion !
I can't access the twitch videos (apparently they have been deleted)
Is there another way to see those videos ?
thanks
ed


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 9, 2020)

envahisseur.delespace said:


> Hi, and thank you all for this enlightening discussion !
> I can't access the twitch videos (apparently they have been deleted)
> Is there another way to see those videos ?
> thanks
> ed


Not sure that was saved really, twitch videos last for about 2 weeks.


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## envahisseur.delespace (Sep 10, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Not sure that was saved really, twitch videos last for about 2 weeks.


oh nooooooo
that was EXACTLY what I was looking for.
Anyway, thank you for your reply.
ed


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## synthesizerwriter (Sep 10, 2020)

It isn't really a reverb, but _*Zynaptiq's Adaptiverb*_ is an interesting alternative that is worth auditioning imho...


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## axb312 (Nov 17, 2020)

whinecellar said:


> Man, I can really relate to the OP in a lot of ways. I’m a reverb junkie and am extremely picky, so, I’m always on the hunt for a new flavor. And since all reverbs are really dependent on source material, what sounds great on one source might sound terrible on something else.
> 
> Anyway, lots of great stuff mentioned so far in this thread, but I thought I’d throw another contender in the ring: Acon Digital Verberate 2. This is one of the most incredible I’ve heard at delivering truly real-sounding spaces, especially solo instruments like piano, classical guitar, solo strings, etc. It’s definitely got something special. And since it’s algorithmic, it can do gorgeous modulated tails a la Lexicon - but with a sense of real space. Anyway, give it a free demo. It’s become one of my go-to’s.



Have you compared Verberate 2 to Seventh heaven at any point of time? Thoughts?


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 17, 2020)

Verberate 2 is less "effected" in terms of how the reverb seems to color the original sound. However, it's still "thicker" than, say, R4. I don't mean the reverb being thick, just how it gloms onto the original sound.

The only wrong choice is a reverb you don't like the sound of/can't make work in your mixes.

I like the new hall (vs v1) in Verberate2, but, overall, I personally prefer other reverbs overall. I know of one professional musician I enjoy the work of that's quite liking Verberate2, though. Possibly because it sounds so good and it is "in the middle" per the above. The musician quite enjoys Nimbus and R4, as well.


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## merty (Nov 17, 2020)

Copy/pasting from another forum I posted not too long ago;

_So these past few days I've been demoing new or testing existing reverb plug-ins I could get my hands on. I actually opened a topic on another forum to also get ideas on how others test reverbs in case I miss something but unsurprisingly, majority just "plays around" with them and depend on their feel.

I've done that too and this time took the long road. Matched settings as close as possible (meaning having to get familiar to every parameter, not depending on a preset or default state), render and match levels (lufs match), playback on a different player so my eyes won't deceive my ears...and did this with different sources (drum, ac guitar, piano).

First what determined "better", cause all reverbs can sound great;

-Some reverbs hype or cannot hide some freq. bumps/ringing etc. enough, though these can be considered "color" by some when not being able to adjust you'll need to add pre/post eq which isn't ideal.

-When the same plug-in keeps becoming a problem constantly when you're trying to match to another. "less is more" is great, but I took this as with-in the simplifying process, too much can be cut out. This was a surprising result for me, indicating I wasn't aware I needed stuff the plug-in didn't offer at the time or before even doing this test.

-Overall duration it took me to match them individually. This might be personal maybe among several other things but I didn't have in mind to share results with anyone before I went on testing.

And some results;

-Fabfilter pro-r; This was the most surprising for me, I never cared for the GUI and the very few parameters of this plug-in always made me it doesn't give a professional feel. But it performed great, specially if one is really aiming for the extra depth feel its really good at that. Can't win in every aspect but for me can be considered the overall winner.

-Valhalla vintage reverb; Low budget winner, get the Plate too (amazing on drums) and also with their freeware you're covered and can feel very confident.

-Eventide; The SP2016 stood out not only with its character but quality too,so best character reverb goes to it.. The others were great too even if not winners; Ultra-reverb with its features and 2016 stereo room for its simplicity/speed were also impressive for daily/traditional usage (I didn't try the crazy stuff like blackhole etc.)

-Nimbus; I was expecting this one to get the most points but somehow always sounded thinner to me when compared...my guess is I kept the comparison parameters as simple as possible, likely being unfair to its design goals.

-Relab lx480; Adored its coloration (among with Voxengo crtiv reverb) but not flexible regarding that coloration if that makes sense




. But if you're mixing console style (only 1 maybe 2 reverbs and use sends for every channel/group) this will work amazing (as expected cause Lexicon



). But since computers became so powerful, I really enjoy my freedom to simply insert multiple reverbs if I want to.

...and there are a bunch more plug-in I tried but just wanted to share the most notable ones. I hope it will be useful _


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## jononotbono (Nov 17, 2020)

I just tried Cinematic Rooms Pro on an Atmos set up. Worked instantly with all channels assigned, no messing about, sounds glorious. Definitely my favourite reverb at the minute. Haven't used Valhalla Room since. Although they do sound different so it's not retired Valhalla Room. Just a different sound.


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## Bluemount Score (Nov 17, 2020)

I'm just happy to see that my $50 Valhalla Room is still very much appreciated and I don't have to worry about not getting something else and very expensive without the feeling of "it can't hold up", which of course, is bs, as I don't even made the best out of Valhalla yet. Reverb isn't my main focus now. Still, interesting thread.


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 17, 2020)

merty said:


> _-Nimbus; I was expecting this one to get the most points but somehow always sounded thinner to me when compared...my guess is I kept the comparison parameters as simple as possible, likely being unfair to its design goals._



Nimbus is FANTASTIC when you don't want the listener to know they're hearing the reverb in a mix. Yet, if you take it away, it sounds "dead". One example would be in sparse electronica that isn't necessarily ambient or lofi. Nimbus in isolation rather than a track is... kinda boring.

I like VVV (and looooove Delay), but I never use it because I always found myself having to EQ it more carefully to get rid of low-mids or thereabouts that build up. I'm also not a master of all the controls, so there is that. I don't have Room or Plate as I prefer others. I'd probably go for VSR S24 for rooms, and I like inaudible plates, and nothing yet beats the (resource intenseive) "3d" tails of Transatlantic Plate.


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## CT (Nov 17, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> I'm just happy to see that my $50 Valhalla Room is still very much appreciated and I don't have to worry about not getting something else and very expensive without the feeling of "it can't hold up", which of course, is bs, as I don't even made the best out of Valhalla yet. Reverb isn't my main focus now. Still, interesting thread.



Valhalla Room is great!


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 17, 2020)

When it comes to ‘verbs I always feel like a philistine reading these threads. For orchestra, always the room mics. Everything else is simply Logic’s own ‘verbs.


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## Kent (Nov 17, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> When it comes to ‘verbs I always feel like a philistine reading these threads. For orchestra, always the room mics. Everything else is simply Logic’s own ‘verbs.


Ain’t nothin wrong with that. Logic has some good stuff.


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## merty (Nov 17, 2020)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Nimbus is FANTASTIC when you don't want the listener to know they're hearing the reverb in a mix. Yet, if you take it away, it sounds "dead". One example would be in sparse electronica that isn't necessarily ambient or lofi. Nimbus in isolation rather than a track is... kinda boring.



Very correct observation, after I wrote that test found old exponential audio youtube video's and then finally got some idea on developer intentions.

Might be expected of me as I have more of a rock etc. background but this reminded me of the times I used vari-verb from samplitude. It was never a popular reverb, commented as "sterile" yet I had good success out of it when dedicating myself. I do have getting phoenix in mind as often (even now) can be obtained very cheap.


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## GtrString (Nov 17, 2020)

I liked the depth and the added fullness you could bring in with 7th Heaven, so I will be getting that one for sure. Also the simple and functional gui.

I have and use most of the usual software suspects from the last decade, including Reverberate with Bricasti samples. Reverb has become so important, and I find myself spending a lot of time tweaking it. I really would like to reduce some of that time, not with automated parameters, but with simplicity and functionality.

Great job. 7th Heaven is definitely an improvement of Reverberate, which I stopped using for the Valhalla ones. I still like the tails from Valhalla, but it is a more artificial and flat sounding tail, more pop than orch for sure. Nor has it the depth, allthough you can tweak room a good bit.

Even though they are well aged, I also happen to like the IK CSR verbs still. They can be tweaked to sound a bit «vintage», and there is something about the way they «wrap around», soak and tuck orchestral samples, that I like when trying to make a track sit in a mix.


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## merty (Nov 18, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> When it comes to ‘verbs I always feel like a philistine reading these threads. For orchestra, always the room mics. Everything else is simply Logic’s own ‘verbs.



One observation I had while testing was the affordable/free reverbs often only showing weakness on fragile material (piano etc.) and noticed only when a/b'd to the more expensive stuff.

I mean after you adjust the affordable one and listen, its perfectly ok to think "ok this sounds as I intended to". But when you take the time to match those settings to another reverb to liking (often hard to match 100%), only then preferences may change.

I play guitar and its similar to my buying experience  the one advantage of buying a new guitar from a store is the chance to compare options. Like, pretty much all strat's sound great as is these days but as you compare from cheaper to expensive only then you start scratching your head justifying the price vs tone (and often the most expensive isn't the best sounding one either  ).


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 18, 2020)

merty said:


> One observation I had while testing was the affordable/free reverbs often only showing weakness on fragile material (piano etc.) and noticed only when a/b'd to the more expensive stuff.
> 
> I mean after you adjust the affordable one and listen, its perfectly ok to think "ok this sounds as I intended to". But when you take the time to match those settings to another reverb to liking (often hard to match 100%), only then preferences may change.


Haha. yep, exactly that. I can hear the differences "in the moment" but rarely afterwards.



kmaster said:


> Ain’t nothin wrong with that. Logic has some good stuff.


That it does.

For every Logic stock plugin I use, there's probably a better sounding third party option to be found on the 'interwebs.

The thing is, I don't want that mental overhead anymore: The searching for "something better" and the constant internal nagging that your music could be better if only you had the New Thing. Been there, done it.

New libraries, plugins and the like are aimed squarely at those of us sitting in front of expensive monitors and fretting about our music. It guess it may be different if you live in the world of A listers - but at my level, no customer, director or editor has ever queried the toolset I've used, stock or pricey third party. Either the music moves and does the job. Or not.

In no way am I trying to suggest that expensive plugins are the same as stock stuff. Absolutely not. It's just that I simply don't care about the differences anymore. For me, using "what you have" is a more comfortable creative place to be. Less mental overhead. I just want to finish the mix, not question anything and go at watch the new episode of The Mandolorian before it's too late and I need to hit the sack. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Apologies for shuffling OT there, my coffee fuelled 2c.


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## Kevinside (Nov 18, 2020)

I like the sonnox reverb,TC VSS3, Eventide TVerb,2016 Stereo Room, SP2016...
There so many really great reverb plugins, which are working for different situations...
But i think my goto reverb and starting point is the Lexicon Bundle...


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## CT (Nov 18, 2020)

Yeah what idiot started this thread?


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Nov 18, 2020)

Using the LX480 and 7H now solely and ask myself why i should ever get another reverb, im happy with the flexbility of the 480 and the simplicity of 7H. Good combo.


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## CT (Nov 18, 2020)

LX480 is a thing of beauty. I almost want to buy it too just because it's such an elegant and skillfully executed plugin.


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## fiction (Nov 18, 2020)

I’m using valhalla vintage verb more often than room although I have both. It’s been my go to for the last projects, usually with an eq before it cutting low frequencies and rolling off some highs. 
I would like to try 7th heaven or cinematic rooms in the near future though, I see a lot of love for the 7th heaven in this thread but no one is really using cinematic rooms?


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## CT (Nov 18, 2020)

fiction said:


> no one is really using cinematic rooms?



I think I mentioned trying it. My impression was that it offered more in terms of surround workflow etc. than a markedly better sound than anything else, but a lot of people seem taken with it. Including Hans, but I'm not sure why you'd trust him as only one of us has a six page thread about reverb on VI-Control.


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## heisenberg (Nov 18, 2020)

Sorry I missed this thread entirely... until now. Some of you have it bad. Way worse than me with reverbs and I thought I was over the top! Curiously, I have 20 maybe 30 reverbs and LX480, 7H and Valhalla Room aren't on my list.


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## heisenberg (Nov 18, 2020)

On further reflection on this thread, I am not seeing much love or interest in convo reverb here except for passing mentions. I know involvement in them often has a steep pricetag. Thinking of MIR Pro and Altiverb to mention a couple of the biggies. I have and often use the former which is a great reverb platform IMO and so convenient when using with VSL stuff but it can work with most anything including synths. The geek inside of me likes/loves SPAT v2 but frankly it doesn't see a lot of use. Blackhole and Adaptiverb get honourable mentions because they appeal to the Stoner is all of us. I personally find them both quite useful particularly when I am staring at my fingertips closeup and doing performance art in my studio.

Best purchase this past year for me without a doubt was Exponential Audio's R4 for $29 US buckaroos. If you didn't snag it when it was up for sale, if you are a reverb hound, you definitely want it in your stable.

UVI's reverb is worth having a standalone plug and PSP often has a rash of sales on their plugs of which there are a good spate of reverbs in their collection that are worthy of consideration.


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## merty (Nov 19, 2020)

heisenberg said:


> On further reflection on this thread, I am not seeing much love or interest in convo reverb here except for passing mentions.



Actually this forum has mostly convo users, likely cause of that discussing algo rev.s is more interesting :D

I strictly don't use convo reverbs. Some bad experience 15 something years ago as tweaking them often resulted the mix to sound boxy or static, and didn't like preset swapping as workflow. I'm aware nowadays things are much better, but with all the options don't see a real need (for me) to start experimenting with them.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Nov 19, 2020)

heisenberg said:


> Best purchase this past year for me without a doubt was Exponential Audio's R4 for $29 US buckaroos. If you didn't snag it when it was up for sale, if you are a reverb hound, you definitely want it in your stable.



Definetly get all 3 EA reverbs: R4, Nimbus (Phoenixverb) and Excalibur. If you have one you pay almost nothing for the others if you wait a little.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 19, 2020)

Have a boatload of good reverbs. Periodically I try different ones because I feel like I ought to. It ends up being a distinction without a real difference in the end result.


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## Dracarys (Nov 19, 2020)

So many good verbs, Izotope R4 and Liquid Sonics are my favorite. Remember each instrument/library sounds different in various reverbs. I ran a solo horn through Illusion last night and it sounded very close to live performance, albeit simple legato.


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## Spices (Nov 19, 2020)

Pier said:


> I sold Room too a couple of weeks ago, along with other Valhalla plugins I never use.
> 
> I kept Plate and VVV which get the most use from me. I think Pro R is more realistic and works better on acoustic material, but somehow I prefer these two for electronic stuff.



Still, Valhalla is in my opinion a good reverb. I use it now and then.

Spice


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## CT (Nov 19, 2020)

I think Valhalla is hard to beat for that certain type of rich ambient reverb. Can't believe something like Supermassive is free. They're Good People.


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## darcvision (Nov 22, 2020)

anyone have Acon Verberate 2? i heard its sounds very good and clean, and i read the previous thread about acon verberate 2 from vi control and it has pretty good feedback.
also any opinion about D16 Spacerek? just got bargain from focusrite collective (50% off)


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## axb312 (Nov 22, 2020)

stefandy31 said:


> anyone have Acon Verberate 2? i heard its sounds very good and clean, and i read the previous thread about acon verberate 2 from vi control and it has pretty good feedback.
> also any opinion about D16 Spacerek? just got bargain from focusrite collective (50% off)



I have it and I like it. Demo it. Can sound clean or modulated.


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## merty (Nov 23, 2020)

That D16 plug-in does look interesting. 

Some-what like algo modeled from reference ir's, though not openly explained I've always thought Voxengo crtiv reverb is like that too and its a go-to for me on certain needs. 

Only downside is cause the controls are limited it can be a hit and miss so definitely not a desert island reverb.


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## darcvision (Nov 23, 2020)

axb312 said:


> I have it and I like it. Demo it. Can sound clean or modulated.


btw, how do you compare verberate 2 with another reverb like nimbus or valhalla room ( similiar price range?


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## merty (Nov 23, 2020)

stefandy31 said:


> ...



They have a freeware version on their website, you don't need to register or anything to download.


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## CT (Nov 26, 2020)

Ok now it really has reached its end. Moderators, please delete thread.


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## fiction (Nov 27, 2020)

After trying CRP demo for 1 hour I've decided to buy it.. it's really a great reverb!


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Nov 28, 2020)

For the crossgrade Price to rev3 i had to buy it also. Just for the flexibility and alternative IRs. Love it.


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## fiction (Nov 28, 2020)

After getting CRP yesterday I can now grab the seventh heaven professional for 71$ with some stacked codes.
Is it worth to have both? I might grab the standard version just to have it.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Nov 28, 2020)

For 71$ get the Pro, the standard is fine, but the feeling of lacking controls could make you feel incomplete.
You eventually dont need the bundle with Standard+Pro together.


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## CT (Dec 3, 2020)

Hmmm....






INSPIRATA | Inspired Acoustics







www.inspiredacoustics.com


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Dec 5, 2020)

135GB for a reverb? Nice.


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## CT (Dec 5, 2020)

Well within the 2TB I've allotted for such things....


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Dec 5, 2020)

Ah, it will nicely load into my ram and will never unload.


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## axb312 (Dec 5, 2020)

stefandy31 said:


> btw, how do you compare verberate 2 with another reverb like nimbus or valhalla room ( similiar price range?



I owned and sold Valhalla room. It has a certain digital hiss in the high end.

Nimbus is cleaner than Verberate 2. The old Algorithm in Verberate 2 can be clean and the new algorithm has nice sounding modulation. In fact, I use a combination of Nimbus and Verberate 2 on my mix bus. Course I'm not a great sound engineer or composer so do take my opinion with a pinch (or more) of salt.


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## jules (Dec 13, 2020)

Maybe we should extend this thread to the IR packs market to hit the 15 pages target, lol. Just bought Spaces 2 for compatibility reasons and it’s really great (why doesn’t it retain dry/wet settings is beyond me). But my reverb of choice is Seventh heaven (standard), among the truckload i own.


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