# Constructive criticism for my piece?



## campion (May 5, 2022)

Hello! You might recognize me as the OP of a different thread. I just finished a draft for a piece following some advice I was given, and wanted to know what others think.

I'm already thinking, after listening to the wav file, that the strings sound a bit muddy. My melody also feels too simple next to the other instruments. Thoughts?

05/11/22 edit: I've added two new files. Please check it out, figuring out the melody is trying to kill me. This one sounds much less empty than previous versions, but whenever I try out a melody with a piano, it just sounds like it's just sitting on top without being cohesive with the entire song. Are there tutorials out there for learning out to create melodies with strings in a DAW? Whenever I look up "how tos" for violins, they all use scores and music notation, and I haven't gotten that far into music theory to be able to make use of it...


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## Nigel Andreola (May 5, 2022)

I do not think the strings sound muddy. They fit the rest of the mix and the mood.


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## Music01Bebe (May 6, 2022)

campion said:


> Hello! You might recognize me as the OP of a different thread. I just finished a draft for a piece following some advice I was given, and wanted to know what others think.
> 
> I'm already thinking, after listening to the wav file, that the strings sound a bit muddy. My melody also feels too simple next to the other instruments. Thoughts?


Yeahhh, the strings dont sound muddy but you got the base of a track that needs another melody, I think i know what could work.
Basically the opening is really good (0.00 - 0.08 seconds) but after that the violins are unsupported, I noticed you used a celli at the start, so after it disappeared the track felt empty. You can bring the celli back to harmonise with the violins.

What could work and what i think the celli can do is a call and answer approach with the notes that the violins play

Also, the low notes that are currently playing on the right side should be a bit louder


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 6, 2022)

The production quality itself sounds decent, I just find there's no structure. Sounds like there's a few different tracks randomly playing together. I also can't hear any type of melody.


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## brkootnekoff (May 6, 2022)

You're missing a clear, defined melody line, imo. You have a bed of chords, but nothing to bring it all together. I suggest you pull in a piano and just start improvising over the chords you already have there (note the key you're in) and start with stepwise motions and go from there. Not doing too many large intervalic leaps. And then see if it sound good to you and if it doesn't make sense, consider changing the chords.
Also, the chords may be moving a bit too fast in some sections for a piano melody to be played over top of this. Perhaps stretch them out and then improvise with a piano (can be replaced later if you want)

When I was starting out, I was using ensemble strings to play the melody line as well. While this is ok to do, I found it lacked clarity. I soon found that it's better to layer some solo strings on top to bring more focus to the melody line.


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## brkootnekoff (May 6, 2022)

Also, what is this song for? Is it for practicing your orchestration skills?

If it is what particular thing are you focusing on? Melody? String writing? Countermelody? Phrasing? Etc


What type of orchestral music is it supposed to be? Horror? Aleatoric? Hybrid? Etc

If you answer these sort of questions, it will allow people to provide you with better feedback.

Edit:I see that you already stated you're focusing on melody, but it would also be good to state what this song is going to be used for if anything and what type of orchestral music it is.


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## PedroPH (May 6, 2022)

It doesn't really have a melody. Of course, you could make it work anyway, but then you need something else to make up for the lack of melody. This piece could work as accompaniment for a movie scene. But by itself, it's missing something. 

I wouldn't care about the strings sounding muddy yet. First, make a good piece of music. You can fix that kind of thing later.


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## campion (May 10, 2022)

brkootnekoff said:


> You're missing a clear, defined melody line, imo. You have a bed of chords, but nothing to bring it all together. I suggest you pull in a piano and just start improvising over the chords you already have there (note the key you're in) and start with stepwise motions and go from there. Not doing too many large intervalic leaps. And then see if it sound good to you and if it doesn't make sense, consider changing the chords.
> Also, the chords may be moving a bit too fast in some sections for a piano melody to be played over top of this. Perhaps stretch them out and then improvise with a piano (can be replaced later if you want)
> 
> When I was starting out, I was using ensemble strings to play the melody line as well. While this is ok to do, I found it lacked clarity. I soon found that it's better to layer some solo strings on top to bring more focus to the melody line.





Music01Bebe said:


> Yeahhh, the strings dont sound muddy but you got the base of a track that needs another melody, I think i know what could work.
> Basically the opening is really good (0.00 - 0.08 seconds) but after that the violins are unsupported, I noticed you used a celli at the start, so after it disappeared the track felt empty. You can bring the celli back to harmonise with the violins.
> 
> What could work and what i think the celli can do is a call and answer approach with the notes that the violins play
> ...


I've added some cello to support the violins, and fiddled with the solo strings. I feel like it sounds a bit less empty, but still can't really tell if I have a melody or not.

This song isn't really for anything in particular. I just wanted to compose a song, and it's going to end up as one of the pieces I present for Exhibition at my school. 

I'll experiment with some piano, but it's slow going. I'm working with beginner level piano skills, so whenever I try and add some piano, I just press random keys within a scale while staring blankly at my screen.


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## brkootnekoff (May 10, 2022)

campion said:


> I'll experiment with some piano, but it's slow going. I'm working with beginner level piano skills, so whenever I try and add some piano, I just press random keys within a scale while staring blankly at my screen.


Awesome! It's definitely getting there. The solo strings add more clarity and focus to what you have there. 

The piano line doesn't have to be anything fancy. First try stepwise motions (up and down within the key) and/or small interval jumps, keeping in mind the key changes in your piece. 

Try starting with the tonic note of the scale (first note of the scale, for example the tonic note of a C major scale is C). If that doesn't work try starting with a different note.


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## brkootnekoff (May 10, 2022)

I've been thinking about your piece a bit and I think it would sound neat if you added some drum rolls (either taikos or timpani) to your intro.

You could also look into adding an ostinato as well (a repeated pattern), probably played by the high strings, shortly after the intro to give your piece some sense of movement forward.

And a bass pulse (staccato). Try once every 4 beats and then go from there.

Note that you may have slightly modify the timings of your chord changes to get these elements to work as they should (ostinato and bass pulse)


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## campion (May 11, 2022)

brkootnekoff said:


> I've been thinking about your piece a bit and I think it would sound neat if you added some drum rolls (either taikos or timpani) to your intro.
> 
> You could also look into adding an ostinato as well (a repeated pattern), probably played by the high strings, shortly after the intro to give your piece some sense of movement forward.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice! Definitely the more concrete stuff I'm looking for. For further clarification, stepwise motion is going back and forth between adjacent keys in a scale? My piece is in D# minor, so I could from D# to E#, back to D# and then F#? Or is it consecutive movement where it's just going up the scale and then down again?

Also, I've edited my original post with two new files. The pacing feels a bit off to me with the piano. I don't think it's the BPM? I don't know how accurate Logic Pro's Smart Tempo function is, but in my head it's a bit faster, and as soon as I shorten the notes, it's way too fast for everything else.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 11, 2022)

campion said:


> Also, I've edited my original post with two new files


I had a listen, I hear what you did with the piano. I just can't latch onto any type of melody or structure. For starters, I would get rid of that electronic "beat" that's running underneath. Perhaps try replacing that with some percussion elements (Taikos, etc), that way the rhythm will at least be more defined.


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## campion (May 11, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I had a listen, I hear what you did with the piano. I just can't latch onto any type of melody or structure. For starters, I would get rid of that electronic "beat" that's running underneath. Perhaps try replacing that with some percussion elements (Taikos, etc), that way the rhythm will at least be more defined.


So I'm not going to be able to get away without more percussion nightmares?


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## LOU (May 11, 2022)

I think you are rushing in with your piece, everything happens at the same time with the same intensity and all too fast, there is no defined structure and hierarchy within the instrumentation. A melody on top of this in this curent state will only add more chaos imo. 
Take your time, allow some time to the listeners to meet with you instruments and define what's the emotions you want to give away with this track, you may eventually realize you don't even need a melody in the first place, harmonies can do the job. There is definetly a dark mood in your pieces right now, but try to be more specific, what kind of dark mood is it ?
Think about you instrumentation, your ochestration and your master as a stage, and put all them at a show as mean to an end to convey something, otherwise it's only noise. 
This is just like any language really, if you don't have anything to say then it doesn't matter if you use the correct words, grammar and pronounciation, no one will listen or understand to the noise you make. =)


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## brkootnekoff (May 11, 2022)

campion said:


> Thanks for the advice! Definitely the more concrete stuff I'm looking for. For further clarification, stepwise motion is going back and forth between adjacent keys in a scale? My piece is in D# minor, so I could from D# to E#, back to D# and then F#? Or is it consecutive movement where it's just going up the scale and then down again?


You got the right idea with the piano, but it's much too quiet imo. And that's a good improv. You might be in the wrong register with the piano. Maybe try dropping it an octave and see how that sounds?

Also, try bringing it right to the front and push everything back?

It takes time to write a good melody. Don't give up. It's a lot of trial and error. 

But I do agree with what the others have said. This piece does sound a bit rushed at the start. Maybe the intro needs to be extended a bit? 

Something as simple as a repeated piano note (the root note of the key you're in with a lot of reverb on it,) could work and then go into what you already have.

This youtube vid might be useful to you. Start watching at 8:21 (time stamped in the description)


+1 for the taikos (light rhythmic pattern of some sort)


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## brkootnekoff (May 11, 2022)

campion said:


> The pacing feels a bit off to me with the piano. I don't think it's the BPM? I don't know how accurate Logic Pro's Smart Tempo function is, but in my head it's a bit faster, and as soon as I shorten the notes, it's way too fast for everything else.


I don't use Logic Pro. Can you disable that feature? It sounds like it may be causing some timing issues. Also, are you quantizing your midi notes?

Don't worry about the negative track delays yet. They take forever to set up. (I haven't even started setting them up)


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