# Spitfire Audio: Abbey Road Two - Iconic Strings



## borisb2 (Dec 9, 2021)

Spitfire Audio — Abbey Road Two


The most famous string soundA history like no other. Abbey Road Two: Iconic Strings represents something truly unique - a landmark, one-off sample library consisting of a signature string sound never before available. Captured at Abbey Road’s Studio Two, the most famous recording venue in the...



www.spitfireaudio.com










Just woke up with this … nice


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## doctoremmet (Dec 9, 2021)

OUT NOW - Abbey Road Two: Iconic Strings


INTRODUCING — ABBEY ROAD TWO: ICONIC STRINGS! 🎻 Following the worldwide success of Abbey Road One: Film Scoring Selections, Abbey Road Studios has welcomed Spitfire Audio into the most famous recording studio in the world, Studio Two, to capture a very special string sound for the first time...




vi-control.net





Bap!


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## Monkberry (Dec 9, 2021)

BAM!


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## ka00 (Dec 9, 2021)

Broke


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## MaxOctane (Dec 9, 2021)

Boomsies!


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## borisb2 (Dec 9, 2021)

Yeah.


ka00 said:


> Broke


copied from mobile .. never works 😂


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## ka00 (Dec 9, 2021)

borisb2 said:


> Yeah.. deisnt work fro
> 
> copied from mobile .. never works 😂


No, as in too broke for Buddy Holly’s heritage flautando.


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## Karmand (Dec 9, 2021)

pass


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## Trash Panda (Dec 9, 2021)

I guess they got tired of the flavor of that Cinesamples cake.


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## iMovieShout (Dec 9, 2021)

Oh good, yet another string library. It sounds as good as SA's Studio Strings and Chamber Strings and Symphonic Strings, and also their BBCSO Pro Strings. Probably a good investment if you don't have many string libraries, but we already have something around 24 so this will likely never get used.

Still the graphics and GUI do look good


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## borisb2 (Dec 9, 2021)

But sound is actually not bad, delicate and gritty at the same time .. I like what I hear so far.. also got Intimate Strings so AR2 Core is “only” $220.- in that case


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## Evans (Dec 9, 2021)

Cliché, but that flautando is beautiful.

Either way, it's nice to see the second phase of development for the Abbey Road partnership.

Abbey Road... development phase #2. Abbey Road 2. Development 2.

AR2D2.


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## MaxOctane (Dec 9, 2021)

Speaking of solo strings, last night I had the honor of attending a solo performance by violinist Gil Shaham at Stanford. And by solo, I mean solo: literally only him on stage. I had best seat in house, front center.

I thought he would be performing with full or chamber orchestra, had no idea until I got there that it would be just him. And I thought: how can a single violin put on a 2.5 hour performance, with zero accompaniment?

It was absolutely mesmerizing.


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## zwhita (Dec 9, 2021)

Evans said:


> Abbey Road... development phase #2. Abbey Road 2. Development 2.
> AR2D2.


Isn't it going to be ARTIS?

Seriously considering this since I passed numerous times on Sacconi, due to the price, and I never cared for Spitfire Solo Strings much. 25% off until 02/22/22. Core mixes seem close and detailed, but missing portamento kinda kills it. Did notice some phasing in the modwheel dynamic crossfades. Is this bow change legato?


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## muziksculp (Dec 9, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> Speaking of solo strings, last night I had the honor of attending a solo performance by violinist Gil Shaham at Stanford. And by solo, I mean solo: literally only him on stage. I had best seat in house, front center.
> 
> I thought he would be performing with full or chamber orchestra, had no idea until I got there that it would be just him. And I thought: how can a single violin put on a 2.5 hour performance, with zero accompaniment?
> 
> It was absolutely mesmerizing.


WOW ! That must have been an amazing experience.  

Did he play any of the Bach partitas for Solo Violin ?


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## MaxOctane (Dec 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> WOW ! That must have been an amazing experience.
> 
> Did he play any of the Bach partitas for Solo Violin ?


* Bach Sonata No 2, in A minor
* Bach Partita No 2, in D minor
* Scott Wheeler, Isolation Rag (fun short piece written for him during pandemic)
* Max Raimi, Violin Etude "Anger Management"
* Reena Esmail, When The Violin (beautiful and now I want to seek out her other work).
* Bach Partita No 3, in E


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## muziksculp (Dec 9, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> * Bach Sonata No 2, in A minor
> * Bach Partita No 2, in D minor
> * Scott Wheeler, Isolation Rag (fun short piece written for him during pandemic)
> * Max Raimi, Violin Etude "Anger Management"
> ...


Very Nice program. 

Do you know what model violin he was playing ?


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## Jackal_King (Dec 9, 2021)

I really liked what I've heard from the demos. I wasn't a fan of the flautando in Originals Intimate Strings but this one was much more pleasing to hear. Once we start seeing more reviews and demos, I think I may give the core version a try. Definitely would like to see a comparison video with Spitfire Studio Strings and LASS 3 in the near future.


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## MaxOctane (Dec 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Very Nice program.
> 
> Do you know what model violin he was playing ?


He plays the 1699 “Countess Polignac” Stradivarius






Program Notes: Gil Shaham, violin | Stanford Live


PROGRAM INFORMATION Gil Shaham, violin Wednesday, December 8, 20217:30 PMBing Concert HallArtistGil Shaham, violinProgramJOHANN SEBASTIAN BACH (1685-1750)Sonata No. 2, in A minor, for solo violin, BWV1003 (completed by 1720) Grave Fuga Andante Allegro JOHANN SEBASTIAN BACH (1685-1750)Partita No...




live.stanford.edu


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## Lee Blaske (Dec 9, 2021)

I like the really thorough coverage of short articulations. You could crank out a lot of trendy commercial underscore tracks with this.


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## FrozenIcicle (Dec 9, 2021)

So this is just solo strings?


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## José Herring (Dec 9, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> Speaking of solo strings, last night I had the honor of attending a solo performance by violinist Gil Shaham at Stanford. And by solo, I mean solo: literally only him on stage. I had best seat in house, front center.
> 
> I thought he would be performing with full or chamber orchestra, had no idea until I got there that it would be just him. And I thought: how can a single violin put on a 2.5 hour performance, with zero accompaniment?
> 
> It was absolutely mesmerizing.


I went to school with him. He is one of those rare musicians that can look at a new piece of music, complex music, memorize it by looking at it, then play it from memory. Unreal!!!!


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## FireGS (Dec 9, 2021)

Do I feel silly for buying BBCSO Pro not even a couple of weeks ago mainly for the string first chairs? Sure do.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 9, 2021)

This will probably by a next Christmas library for me. I kind of like the sound, but I just got (as in finished downloading last night sometime) two new string libraries that both sound pretty good. 

I did initially get into orchestras because I like the sound of orchestral instruments mixd with pop/rock music, so this is definitely along the lines of what I was looking for when I started out. But, next year.


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## StillLife (Dec 9, 2021)

This is exactly the string sound I am always looking for. Only curious about the dynamic layers. How many?


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## Trash Panda (Dec 9, 2021)

StillLife said:


> This is exactly the string sound I am always looking for. Only curious about the dynamic layers. How many?


At 292 GB? All of them.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 9, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> At 292 GB? All of them.


When you think about it, that's a lot of gigabytes for 5 little instruments. Okay, the bass is pretty big. 

Is that the download size or final size?


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## dylanmixer (Dec 9, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Do I feel silly for buying BBCSO Pro not even a couple of weeks ago mainly for the string first chairs? Sure do.


Honestly, nothing has been able to beat that solo cello in the BBC library for me yet. It's on almost all of my tracks.


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## Studio E (Dec 9, 2021)

Definitely interested in having this, but I gotta beg for mercy on my wallet for a while. I bought way more than what I intended this BF, and while I have no regrets, I am also getting super serious about putting myself into a better financial position this year. I'm sure it's worth every penny and I'll find out for myself as soon as the time is right. It's still exciting just to hear it though.


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## CT (Dec 9, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Do I feel silly for buying BBCSO Pro not even a couple of weeks ago mainly for the string first chairs? Sure do.


Hah don't worry about it man, they have their uses, though in my opinion mainly for adding definition to the sections. I hope the legato programming will see the same love the sections got in an update. They're not _bad _but what's going on in the new soloists is way smoother.


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## FireGS (Dec 9, 2021)

Anyone up for a BBCSO Pro vs AR2?


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## CT (Dec 9, 2021)

Once downloading etc. is out of the way sure. I've no doubts about the outcome though, at least for straight legato comparison.


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## Aitcpiano (Dec 9, 2021)

FrozenIcicle said:


> So this is just solo strings?


Yep solo strings.


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## Aitcpiano (Dec 9, 2021)

I'd quite like to hear some mock-ups of some string quintet pieces using it.


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## jaketanner (Dec 9, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Anyone up for a BBCSO Pro vs AR2?


Not even close or fair comparison. Totally different approaches. The first chairs are for the BBC orchestra...not really stand alone, but AR2 seems to be...not classical quintet, but within a track i think will work well...


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 9, 2021)

I'm looking forward to some user demos here, especially utilizing the different mics to change the tone (didn't _love_ the tone of the violins in the official demos).

I know Spitfire Solo Strings are the ugly stepchild here, but I personally like their tone:


Vs. AR2 Strings


(vs. something like CSSS)


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## Aitcpiano (Dec 9, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Not even close or fair comparison. Totally different approaches. The first chairs are for the BBC orchestra...not really stand alone, but AR2 seems to be...not classical quintet, but within a track i think will work well...


Not quite sure I would use these AR2 strings in an exposed solo string context though. Similar to BBCSO solo strings in that way.

Could imagine these would work well in an electronic/pop music piece as they have a really dry and quite detailed sound. But then at the same time BBCSO solo string can get very dry sounding and quite detailed sounding if you use the correct mics and could also be used quite well in a none classical context within a track.


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## Aitcpiano (Dec 9, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I'm looking forward to some user demos here, especially utilizing the different mics to change the tone (didn't _love_ the tone of the violins in the official demos).
> 
> I know Spitfire Solo Strings are the ugly stepchild here, but I personally like their tone:
> 
> ...


CSSS is probably better. Their very consistent between all the articulations which is very important when trying to create a flowing solo string line. These are quite a strong pass for me, but then I'm not really a big fan of solo string libraries. In exposed solo contexts, solo string libraries just don't come close to a recording of a good solo string performance, so I'd only really ever use these within a song with other instruments or for layering purposes. Might also be good for an electronic/pop piece were a dry, detailed solo string sound is needed, but then BBCSO Pro solo strings could probably do that as you can also get them very dry sounding.

I will say that I really like the libraries pictures on the site . It makes it look so flashy and new with all the brilliant Abbey Road 2 studio pictures and nice gold writing saying Abbey Road 2, but in reality this is just another solo string library which will have all the same annoying issues that many other solo string libraries have.


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## soulofsound (Dec 9, 2021)

It sounds brilliant and i would buy Core if it had all legato and articulations, just not the almost 300GB of pro. I bought BBC SO Pro and i only use Core. So if Core had the same articulations/legatos here, that would be an instant-buy. Now i'm pretty sure i cannot buy any one of them.


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## Petrucci (Dec 9, 2021)

soulofsound said:


> It sounds brilliant and i would buy Core if it had all legato and articulations, just not the almost 300GB of pro. I bought BBC SO Pro and i only use Core. So if Core had the same articulations/legatos here, that would be an instant-buy. Now i'm pretty sure i cannot buy any one of them.


Indeed, the absense of portamento and only 2 mixes in Core and over-bloated size of Professional is no-go for me though I'd like to try it.


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## filipjonathan (Dec 9, 2021)

It's baffling that they didn't include both legatos in the core version, Like in SCS for example. Or SStS. Such shame.


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## MaxOctane (Dec 9, 2021)

Aitcpiano said:


> CSSS is probably better. Their very consistent between all the articulations which is very important when trying to create a flowing solo string line. .... In exposed solo contexts, solo string libraries just don't come close to a recording of a good solo string performance
> 
> I will say that I really like the libraries pictures on the site... but in reality this is just another solo string library which will have all the same annoying issues that many other solo string libraries have.


I'm a string quartet junkie (in real life) and will almost definitely buy this, but I hate the fact that you're probably right. Even the Sacconi demos were great several years ago, but then the library had _all kinds of problems _(major volume differences, inconsistent stereo fields and instrument placement, and more).

I insta-bought Spitfire Solo Strings and barely touch them. The dynamics are so overpowering at all levels.

And CSSS... another insta-purchase. But that vibrato is insanely bad. Sadly, one of my most regretted purchases.

Now wondering if I should allocate 1/3rd of a Terabyte to another lib that might have same problems.


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## JohnG (Dec 9, 2021)

It's really hard to replicate a string quartet / quintet, especially the violins. This is pretty good.

Core vs. pro? It's partly the pieces themselves and the reverb / mic choices, but of the demos I preferred the two demos that are labeled "core edition" by Dan Keen and Lucie Treacher:






Spitfire Audio — Abbey Road Two


The most famous string soundA history like no other. Abbey Road Two: Iconic Strings represents something truly unique - a landmark, one-off sample library consisting of a signature string sound never before available. Captured at Abbey Road’s Studio Two, the most famous recording venue in the...



www.spitfireaudio.com





I almost never try to use samples for solos -- ok, never, actually. I've been using SCS instead.

The shorts are just awesome though, so it's tempting just for those. I still use some of the solo shorts from EWQLSO and these seem quite an extension of that!


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## Aitcpiano (Dec 9, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> I'm a string quartet junkie (in real life) and will almost definitely buy this, but I hate the fact that you're probably right. Even the Sacconi demos were great several years ago, but then the library had _all kinds of problems _(major volume differences, inconsistent stereo fields and instrument placement, and more).
> 
> I insta-bought Spitfire Solo Strings and barely touch them. The dynamics are so overpowering at all levels.
> 
> ...


Same here, I really like string quartets as well but probably wont buy this as I expect the same kind of issues you mention. I suppose it's just very hard to sample and replicate a string quartet. 

I've had a similar experience, CSSS is good in that its consistent but yeah Its a shame their is not more control with the vibrato. Hopefully they may update it at some point after we get the CSS update.


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## Aitcpiano (Dec 9, 2021)

JohnG said:


> It's really hard to replicate a string quartet / quintet, especially the violins. This is pretty good.
> 
> Core vs. pro? It's partly the pieces themselves and the reverb / mic choices, but of the demos I preferred the two demos that are labeled "core edition" by Dan Keen and Lucie Treacher:
> 
> ...


Same here, I never really use samples for solo violins or for actually a quartet piece. I have on a few occasions but exposed solo violins lines are just hard and time consuming to program.

The shorts in AR2 do indeed sound very nice though. However, the BBCSO solo/leaders shorts seem quite similar as the ones in AR2 when comparing them alongside the ones played on the walkthough video, you can get them almost as dry sounding as the ones in AR2 so for me it would probably not be worth it as I already have BBCSO Pro. The BBCSO Pro string leader legatos are rubbish.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 9, 2021)




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## Aitcpiano (Dec 9, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> What's the vibrato issue with Csss? Was on my future buy list as I have CSS. What's it like compared to embertone iss which I did buy and really like so far? Embertone is artificial vibrato it seems but makes it very controllable.


It just quite a heavy vibrato and you have essentially no control of the vibrato amount. It's either no vibrato or quite a heavy vibrato.


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## AMBi (Dec 9, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> What's the vibrato issue with Csss? Was on my future buy list as I have CSS. What's it like compared to embertone iss which I did buy and really like so far? Embertone is artificial vibrato it seems but makes it very controllable.


CSSS vibrato can't be controlled, it's either on or off which isn't an issue in itself since it's pretty common, but the issue some people have arises from how much vibrato it has.
It basically mirrors the style of CSS but in solo string form.

The CS series in general aims for a more passionate, romantic style so the heavy vibrato when held out in longs can be a bit much.

When I first bought CSSS I though the vibrato was too much too but I learned the lower dynamic layer's vibrato is pretty tame comparatively and comes in much more progressively, so using it is great for soloist passages. It has since became my favorite solo string library.

Embertone's ISS is much tamer in comparison, the legato isn't as pronounced, but has much more control and is way more agile.


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## Aitcpiano (Dec 9, 2021)

AMBi said:


> CSSS vibrato can't be controlled, it's either on or off which isn't an issue in itself since it's pretty common, but the issue some people have arises from how much vibrato it has.
> It basically mirrors the style of CSS but in solo string form.
> 
> The CS series in general aims for a more passionate, romantic style so the heavy vibrato when held out in longs can be a bit much.
> ...


Apparently the CSS update is going to add true-legato non vibrato transitions, so i'm not sure if this will add some more control to the vibrato amount for CSS. 

It would be nice to have some more control and reduce the legato amount on the CSSS, especially on the violins. However I still think that probably out of the solo string libraries I have and have tried, CSSS with its heavy vibrato it still probably one of the better solo string libraries and probably the one I would use if I needed to write some solo string parts with samples. Just like all the rest of the series it is just all very consistent.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 9, 2021)

AMBi said:


> CSSS vibrato can't be controlled, it's either on or off which isn't an issue in itself since it's pretty common, but the issue some people have arises from how much vibrato it has.
> It basically mirrors the style of CSS but in solo string form.
> 
> The CS series in general aims for a more passionate, romantic style so the heavy vibrato when held out in longs can be a bit much.
> ...


Every time I reach for CSSS for solo lines instead of layering... :(


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## AMBi (Dec 9, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Every time I reach for CSSS for solo lines instead of layering... :(


No that would 

bee 

Spitfire Solo Strings


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## blaggins (Dec 9, 2021)

I am a terrible neophyte but I've been kinda impressed with the Spitfire Solo Strings. The performance patches sound pretty good to me out of the box...


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## branshen (Dec 9, 2021)

Spitfire Audio watching VI Control try to justify yet another solo string library:


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## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2021)

tpoots said:


> I am a terrible neophyte but I've been kinda impressed with the Spitfire Solo Strings. The performance patches sound pretty good to me out of the box...


A lot of people, myself included, like the SF Solo Strings. I even like them for quartet writing, though like all VI solo string libraries they won’t compete with the real thing for production over anything except the smallest sliver of uses. But I find them perfectly acceptable for writing with.


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## AMBi (Dec 9, 2021)

Aitcpiano said:


> Apparently the CSS update is going to add true-legato non vibrato transitions, so i'm not sure if this will add some more control to the vibrato amount for CSS.
> 
> It would be nice to have some more control and reduce the legato amount on the CSSS, especially on the violins. However I still think that probably out of the solo string libraries I have and have tried, CSSS with its heavy vibrato it still probably one of the better solo string libraries and probably the one I would use if I needed to write some solo string parts with samples. Just like all the rest of the series it is just all very consistent.


Having a middle vibrato layer would be nice! As far as control it would probably still have the same 
non vib-->vib crossfade issue that pretty much all solo libraries with recorded vibrato have though it'd be slightly less jarring with the extra layer



tpoots said:


> I am a terrible neophyte but I've been kinda impressed with the Spitfire Solo Strings. The performance patches sound pretty good to me out of the box...


The Virtuoso Violin patch is one of the funnest patches to play!


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## AMBi (Dec 9, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> A lot of people, myself included, like the SF Solo Strings. I even like them for quartet writing


I'd say they're one of the top picks for quartets and it's the biggest highlight for me since the instruments blend so well together


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## Raphioli (Dec 9, 2021)

I was looking through the manual and saw this.




+1
Hope it also gets implemented in the AR1 modular series.

I'm not sure how long the actual legato transition recordings are in Hans Zimmer Strings,
but would be great if something like this was implemented in that library too. (more delay but more realism)


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## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2021)

AMBi said:


> I'd say they're one of the top picks for quartets and it's the biggest highlight for me since the instruments blend so well together


They also can be made to seem to play together, except maybe the virtuosic violin, who has the virtuosic’s tendency to want to do it their way. (It’s my biggest beef with most solo strings libraries: you have to follow them.)


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## FrozenIcicle (Dec 9, 2021)

Solo sample strings only work with spiccato and small sustain notes that don't overlap. Otherwise they are too exposed for legato stuff. Hence Paul's track


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## Trace (Dec 9, 2021)

Got This today. Being the Beatles nut that I am, notice the Zenner limiter in my profile pic, I’ve dreamed of this library for years. That said, phasing snd stereo imaging issues abound. I also really really disslike the Spitfire player.


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## Soundbed (Dec 9, 2021)

Trace said:


> phasing snd stereo imaging issues abound


can you elaborate?


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## Soundbed (Dec 9, 2021)

I have a sense that the tone issues some people didn't like in the violins — from two of the four demos and Paul's walkthrough video — wouldn't show up in everyone's actual use. Play lower in the range and at lower dynamic with sul tasto or something, with mics that are further away (or with one of the reverb impulses provided, for instance) and I'm guessing peoples' reactions would be quite different. He was actually talking about how sharp, bright, crisp and in your face the sound was, and had the mod wheel at the very top, and people were not interested in hearing it ... but I'm guessing they could have been played in a different dynamic and style and range and mic setup and made to sound quite different.


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## Lee Blaske (Dec 9, 2021)

Okay, downloaded the Professional version (it's a lot of data!). First impressions... The short articulations are really delicious. For a really present, in-your-face sound, I don't think there's a lot of competition. I like the section patches a lot, too. I can see that crafting a piece with a good mixture of sustained and short articulations will take some effort.

With the short articulations being quite responsive to keyboard velocity, I think this library is going to really require a quality keyboard to play expressively. I doubt that anything with a FATAR action (Native Instruments Komplete, etc.) is going to cut it. I think you're going to really want to have predictable response from key to key (Kawai VPC1, Yamaha Motif, Korg Kronos, etc. level of keyboard velocity precision). You're also going to want to tweak the velocity scaling. If you hit the top levels too often, it's going to sound phony.

For sustained notes, this is a library where I think you're also really going to want to have both a dynamics and expression slider, and play the heck out of them. Not enough range on the sustained patches playing the dynamics alone.

My feeling is that this library is more suited to an experienced user with good keyboard skills. It is not forgiving. In the right hands, though, it's going to be a formidable tool.


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## from_theashes (Dec 10, 2021)

I think the missing portamento in the core library is a huge let down (not to say d***-move). Makes it useless for me (who needs solo strings without portamento?!?) and forces buyers to the pro version.
Would be better to just have one mix for core and all the other mixes and microphones for Pro but the same articulations (like BBCSO core vs pro). Would‘ve been an instant buy for me… but in that case I‘ll pass and go with CSSS.


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## Banquet (Dec 10, 2021)

from_theashes said:


> I think the missing portamento in the core library is a huge let down (not to say d***-move). Makes it useless for me (who needs solo strings without portamento?!?) and forces buyers to the pro version.
> Would be better to just have one mix for core and all the other mixes and microphones for Pro but the same articulations (like BBCSO core vs pro). Would‘ve been an instant buy for me… but in that case I‘ll pass and go with CSSS.
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed... it turned an insta-buy into an insta-fail for me...

Edit - does the performance legato definitely not include portamento?


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## AMBi (Dec 10, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I have a sense that the tone issues some people didn't like in the violins — from two of the four demos and Paul's walkthrough video — wouldn't show up in everyone's actual use. Play lower in the range and at lower dynamic with sul tasto or something, with mics that are further away (or with one of the reverb impulses provided, for instance) and I'm guessing peoples' reactions would be quite different. He was actually talking about how sharp, bright, crisp and in your face the sound was, and had the mod wheel at the very top, and people were not interested in hearing it ... but I'm guessing they could have been played in a different dynamic and style and range and mic setup and made to sound quite different.


It's less of a tone issue for me but more that there's some pretty unpleasant frequencies and noise in some of the demos which can probably be EQ'd out thankfully.

The "Emerging From the Mist" demo at around 35~ seconds onwards has a lot of it going on which assaulted my left eardrum lol


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## FrozenIcicle (Dec 10, 2021)

wow this is really putting me off buying this but appreciate the honest reviews


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## Calagan (Dec 10, 2021)

At first listen, I was amazed by this release because I liked very much the general tone and the idea of recreating the Abbey Road vintage sound (Eleanor Rigby and so on). 
Actually I still think it sounds great and it's a success regarding the vintage idea (even if yes, the violin is a bit harsh, and sometimes I've got impression it's a bit false too).

But in a lot of demos I too can hear the phasing/fake sound in quick legato phrases. This is the most embarassing issue for me. 
I'm a newbie regarding string libraries (I don't own and use a lot), so I don't know if it really exists convincing concurrence with this kind of "pop/vintage" sound (I don't like AT ALL the classical sound of Chris Hein for exemple, at least on the demos I can grab on the net. I bought the "VSL Special Edition vol 1" few years ago and I HATE how the strings sound - just to give some exemples).

I'm in search for a solo string library, I listened to dozens of libraries and a lot of them have this phasing issue. When they don't, it's usually only because they have very limited articulations.
I like the Sacconi quartet demos for exemple (even if the room sound is an issue for what I'd like to do with this library), but they have the same issue when you hear some random users playing it on youtube. 
Is there a solo string library out there with a more or less similar pop/rock'n'roll sound and a satisfying legato (or without phasing issues when crossfading between dynamic layers) ?
I guess it's always a compromise between complexity of articulations/dynamic layers and realistic sound...


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## doctoremmet (Dec 10, 2021)

Calagan said:


> Is there a solo string library out there with a more or less similar pop/rock'n'roll sound and a satisfying legato (or without phasing issues when crossfading between dynamic layersAs ) ?
> I guess it's always a compromise between complexity of articulations/dynamic layers and realistic sound...


The main issue is… you expecting _a realistic sound_. For solo instruments, based on samples with velocity layers, phasing is always going to be an issue, but in certain sweet spots it can sometimes have a “real” tone, until a phrase or CC controller triggers the next sample that is. If you want phasing-issue free instruments, physical modelling is the way forward, at the expense of tone and even less “realism”.

TL;DR: No.


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## Calagan (Dec 10, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> The main issue is… you expecting _a realistic sound_. For solo instruments, based on samples with velocity layers, phasing is always going to be an issue, but in certain sweet spots it can sometimes have a “real” tone, until a phrase or CC controller triggers the next sample that is. If you want phasing-issue free instruments, physical modelling is the way forward, at the expense of tone and even less “realism”.
> 
> TL;DR: No.


he he... Expected answer (unfortunately)...
I guess that nevertheless some solo strings libraries have less issues than others, no ? At least with some specific uses in mind : lib A for classical quartet mockup, lib B for 1st chair, lib C for pop stuff ?...
Sorry for the naïve question, this forum must be filled with contradictory opinions on the subject (I'm a new vi-control member, and I discovered recently the "legato police" joke. I was more accustomed to the "aliasing police" joke from where I come from ah ah ah).
By the way, I didn't like any physical modelling stuff I listened online. I much prefer phasing artifacts than the tone I hear in physical modelling strings. At least, you can avoid phasing by just playing the strings in some simpler ways, but you can't avoid a "false" tone.
Anyway, curious to hear some more feedback about this Abbey Road solo strings from early bird adopters...
And what about vibrato ? One guy asked 2 or 3 times about it and had no answer so far... Is it controlable ? And if yes, how ?


----------



## doctoremmet (Dec 10, 2021)

Calagan said:


> he he... Expected answer (unfortunately)...
> I guess nevertheless some solo strings libraries have less issues than others, no ? At least with some uses in mind : lib A for classical quartet mockup, lib B for 1st chair, lib C for pop stuff ?...
> Sorry for the naïve question, this forum must be filled with contradictory opinions on the subject (I'm a new vi-control member, and I discovered recently the "legato police" joke. I was more accustomed to the "aliasing police" joke from where I come ah ah ah).


Yes, of course. I was half joking 
Legato slurred / portamento transitions in solo strings will almost always sound artificial - at least to me.

You mention Chris Hein, and I get what you’re saying, although I rather like that particular solo library (with the inherent limitations that are always going to be there). Maybe for pop use cases, have a look at 8Dio’s Intimate Studio Strings as well. The shorts are typically receivers of a lot of hate, but they can be used in a pop / rock mix pretty easily. No fancy mic positions, or signals as we now apparently are expected to call them hehe. But the arcs are rather nice. At the current 60% discount, maybe an interesting alternative. I also happen to like 8Dio’s Deep Solo instruments, but a lot of folks have been disappointed by them. What I particularly love about them is a certain grit, which -to my ears- sounds “real” whereas most on this forum seem to just call it “noisy and harsh”.

Also check out Light & Sound Chamber Strings. A bit of a dark horse perhaps, but one that is rather good - albeit also one with a bit of a learning curve. The Cremona Quartet by NI may yet be another option. I don’t have that one and I rather dislike the demos, and there are whole threads about why people hate them as well, but again: ultimately this is all very subjective.

One of the main problems of course is that one can only find out whether one likes a particular library after purchasing it. They should invent a police force for that offense.


----------



## GMT (Dec 10, 2021)

This has the same purchase issue I have with BBCSO core and pro. The core doesn't have enough mics, the pro has too many (thus too big). I bought BBCSO core and use it on its own in a narrow set of circumstances (and I love what it does in them) but I need the flexbility of a close/tree/room setup. No way am I going to fill a whole SSD for one library. Kind of have the same feeling here. Add to that the missing portamentos in core, and this is a no thanks for me. It's a shame that there is no middle ground.


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## Delboy (Dec 10, 2021)

So can I ask the gurus on here .. why have they gone with a Core and Pro when AR1 did not ... is this another way of making more money for the sake of microphone placements


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## Calagan (Dec 10, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> You mention Chris Hein, and I get what you’re saying, although I rather like that particular solo library (with the inherent limitations that are always going to be there). Maybe for pop use cases, have a look at 8Dio’s Intimate Studio Strings as well. The shorts are typically receivers of a lot of hate, but they can be used in a pop / rock mix pretty easily. No fancy mic positions, or signals as we now apparently are expected to call them hehe. But the arcs are rather nice. At the current 60% discount, maybe an interesting alternative. I also happen to like 8Dio’s Deep Solo instruments, but a lot of folks have been disappointed by them. What I particularly love about them is a certain grit, which -to my ears- sounds “real” whereas most on this forum seem to just call it “noisy and harsh”.


Regarding Chris Hein, don't get me wrong : I find the scripting possibility amazing, and it sound great in its own style. But this is not the style I'm searching for...
My problem with this Abbey Road stuff is that actually I like the sound, but I've got impression the legato scripting is not as good as others...


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## doctoremmet (Dec 10, 2021)

Calagan said:


> Regarding Chris Hein, don't get me wrong : I find the scripting possibility amazing, and it sound great in its own style. But this is not the style I'm searching for...
> My problem with this Abbey Road stuff is that actually I like the sound, but I've got impression the legato scripting is not as good as others...


I’m of the rare persuasion that _sound character_ in a library is ultimately *way more important* than any form of legato. But please consider this: I am merely a hobbyist so take everything I say with a huge lump of salt anyway.


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## Jdiggity1 (Dec 10, 2021)

GMT said:


> This has the same purchase issue I have with BBCSO core and pro. The core doesn't have enough mics, the pro has too many (thus too big). I bought BBCSO core and use it on its own in a narrow set of circumstances (and I love what it does in them) but I need the flexbility of a close/tree/room setup. No way am I going to fill a whole SSD for one library. Kind of have the same feeling here. Add to that the missing portamentos in core, and this is a no thanks for me. It's a shame that there is no middle ground.


You can delete the mics you don't want from Pro.



Delboy said:


> So can I ask the gurus on here .. why have they gone with a Core and Pro when AR1 did not ... is this another way of making more money for the sake of microphone placements


I think of "pro" versions as being what the final product was always designed to be.
Any time there's a core version, it's a way of providing an option for consumers who don't want to or can't pay the full price.

So, it's not like the pro version has anything "extra" that they want more money for, it's that "core" is a stripped back version to offer a cheaper entry point.


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## Zanshin (Dec 10, 2021)

Yep. Replace "Core" with "Lite" in your head and it'll be more accurate/in line with other developers.


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## re-peat (Dec 10, 2021)

I really like these. Also was a bit put off at first by the somewhat abrasive sound of the sustains in several of the demos, but then spending a bit more time with some of the other published material — I’m trying to teach YouTube to fast-forward automatically every time Christian “If-I-don’t-make-it-onto-the-Queen’s-New-Year’s-Honours-list-soon-I’ll-feel-soooo-underappreciated” Henson hovers into view, but no dice so far. Dashed annoying. Him and Michelmore (the fella that exhibits everything that makes the Brits so disliked in every continental holiday resort) all but ruin the Spitfire experience for me — all doubts were dispelled: outstanding collection of solo string samples captured in an amazing space. 

And so it proved after installation. Great library. Faults? Sure. But nothing that outweighs its sonic and spatial splendour and its unprecedented detail. One of those libraries that may seem to require a lot of disc space, but also one that frees up a lot of disc space because of all the libraries it condemns to never being used anymore.

_


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## GMT (Dec 10, 2021)

re-peat said:


> I really like these. Also was a bit put off at first by the somewhat abrasive sound of the sustains in several of the demos, but then spending a bit more time with some of the other published material — I’m trying to teach YouTube to fast-forward automatically every time Christian “If-I-don’t-make-it-onto-the-Queen’s-New-Year’s-Honours-list-soon-I’ll-feel-soooo-underappreciated” Henson hovers into view, but no dice so far. Dashed annoying. Him and Michelmore (the fella that exhibits everything that makes the Brits so disliked in every continental holiday resort) all but ruin the Spitfire experience for me — all doubts were dispelled: outstanding collection of solo string samples captured in an amazing space.
> 
> And so it proved after installation. Great library. Faults? Sure. But nothing that outweighs its sonic and spatial splendour and its unprecedented detail. One of those libraries that may seem to require a lot of disc space, but also one that frees up a lot of disc space because of all the libraries it condemns to never being used anymore.
> 
> _


As a Brit, I think I can say that it is our drinking, fighting, fucking-in-public that makes us so disliked abroad. I can't envisage Guy Michelmore hooliganeering his way around a holiday resort with a viking helmet on and coke and vomit pouring out of his nose. He even seems to be able to speak other languages and not just grunt.

EDIT - Damn. Now I have a hilarious picture of Guy going drunk-mental in a bar in Mallorca.


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## GMT (Dec 10, 2021)

Jdiggity1 said:


> You can delete the mics you don't want from Pro.
> 
> 
> I think of "pro" versions as being what the final product was always designed to be.
> ...


I could, but I'm not so keen on buying things I plan on throwing away. Just me.


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## wetalkofdreams (Dec 10, 2021)

The personal attacks have no place here. Detail and critique the products and the way they're advertised, but don't attack individuals, and especially don't attack nationality. It's cruel and horrible, and it serves no purpose in a forum that is musicians helping musicians


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## Delboy (Dec 10, 2021)

Jdiggity1 said:


> You can delete the mics you don't want from Pro.
> 
> 
> I think of "pro" versions as being what the final product was always designed to be.
> ...


I get that but why did they not do that with AR1 then ? ... just launched it with add ons to reel us all in.


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## styledelk (Dec 10, 2021)

Delboy said:


> I get that but why did they not do that with AR1 then ? ... just launched it with add ons to reel us all in.


It's a different library and strategy that only happens to share two words in its name? It was more of an Albion (with expansions) than a proper library.


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## JohannesR (Dec 10, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Christian “If-I-don’t-make-it-onto-the-Queen’s-New-Year’s-Honours-list-soon-I’ll-feel-soooo-underappreciated” Henson hovers into view, but no dice so far. Dashed annoying. Him and Michelmore (the fella that exhibits everything that makes the Brits so disliked in every continental holiday resort)


Okay, now you're just being mean.


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## Monkberry (Dec 10, 2021)

re-peat said:


> I really like these. Also was a bit put off at first by the somewhat abrasive sound of the sustains in several of the demos, but then spending a bit more time with some of the other published material — I’m trying to teach YouTube to fast-forward automatically every time Christian “If-I-don’t-make-it-onto-the-Queen’s-New-Year’s-Honours-list-soon-I’ll-feel-soooo-underappreciated” Henson hovers into view, but no dice so far. Dashed annoying. Him and Michelmore (the fella that exhibits everything that makes the Brits so disliked in every continental holiday resort) all but ruin the Spitfire experience for me — all doubts were dispelled: outstanding collection of solo string samples captured in an amazing space.
> 
> And so it proved after installation. Great library. Faults? Sure. But nothing that outweighs its sonic and spatial splendour and its unprecedented detail. One of those libraries that may seem to require a lot of disc space, but also one that frees up a lot of disc space because of all the libraries it condemns to never being used anymore.
> 
> _


100% agree with you on the overall sound of this library. I didn't have much time with it after downloading kept stalling and pause kept forcing me to close as it would not continue, so roughly 5 hours of installing the Pro version made it a late night. I was also put off by a few of the demos sounding abrasive in the high end, but this is not the case once in actual use. The beauty is in the spatial placement and detail. The vibrato is quite good also. It is not a "do all"-" be all" library, which does not exist in any current string libraries I've come across but this has a special place for me. 100% love it!


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## Calagan (Dec 10, 2021)

And how do you manage the vibrato ?


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## Trash Panda (Dec 10, 2021)

Calagan said:


> And how do you manage the vibrato ?


Via CC. Page 17: https://d1t3zg51rvnesz.cloudfront.n...6/Abbey Road Two Professional_User Manual.pdf


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## rottoy (Dec 10, 2021)

JohannesR said:


> Okay, now you're just being mean.


Always be wary of someone who doesn't like Guy Michelmore.


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## Soundbed (Dec 10, 2021)

Calagan said:


> I discovered recently the "legato police" joke


I take credit for naming them legato police.


Calagan said:


> Regarding Chris Hein, don't get me wrong : I find the scripting possibility amazing, and it sound great in its own style. But this is not the style I'm searching for...


I only recently bought the Chris Hein Cello, and it’s four different cellos. Each includes different impulse responses for both the “body” and the room. The body IRs might be contributing to what you don’t like about the tone/ sound , esp if you’re looking for the Modern cello but not hearing people demo it.

If I have time I’ll see if I can get the modern Chris Hein cello to sound anything like the AR2 cello.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 10, 2021)

*A*bbey *R*oad *T*wo - *IC*onic *S*trings

ARTICS


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## jneebz (Dec 10, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> And CSSS... another insta-purchase. But that vibrato is insanely bad. Sadly, one of my most regretted purchases.


Same. So disappointing.


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## Calagan (Dec 10, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Via CC. Page 17: https://d1t3zg51rvnesz.cloudfront.net/p/files/product-manuals/4055/1638887106/Abbey Road Two Professional_User Manual.pdf


Thanks. Actually, reading the manual is quite impressive. This library offers a lot of options (rebowing, round robin, speed of playing...) Or maybe I'm just a newbie and i'm easily impressed.


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## derschoenekarsten (Dec 10, 2021)

Anybody else having trouble installing this on an M1? Had the Pro download running all night and it doesn't seem to install the plug-ins (yes, I checked the actual Library folders). The "Repair" function in the SF doesn't install them either. DL'ing the lite version now, hope it'll work out.

It's a brand new machine and I just freshly installed ARO + Expansions, BBC SO and some Originals, all without issue. Any ideas are greatly appreciated!
----------

*EDIT*: Thanks to everyone who replied! Turns out I'm an idiot, I didn't realize that the smaller download is a resource container rather than the Core version of the library. Now, everything is up and running.


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## wunderflo (Dec 10, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> If I have time I’ll see if I can get the modern Chris Hein cello to sound anything like the AR2 cello.


please do, that'd be awesome and super helpful. Thank you so much!


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## Soundbed (Dec 10, 2021)

derschoenekarsten said:


> Anybody else having trouble installing this on an M1? Had the Pro download running all night and it doesn't seem to install the plug-ins (yes, I checked the actual Library folders). The "Repair" function in the SF doesn't install them either. DL'ing the lite version now, hope it'll work out.
> 
> It's a brand new machine and I just freshly installed ARO + Expansions, BBC SO and some Originals, all without issue. Any ideas are greatly appreciated!


You might want to ask support. I don't even see it on their compatibility list yet. 



https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019055957-Apple-Silicon-M1-Compatibility-Chart-for-Spitfire-Audio-Libraries


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## Soundbed (Dec 10, 2021)

About vibrato: 

Note that ONLY the articulation called "Long" seems to have controllable vibrato.

Any other techniques that might also be considered longs or long-like don't seem to have vibrato control. e.g., Legato Slurred does not have vibrato control afaict. Let me know if I'm wrong.


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## tjr (Dec 10, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> You might want to ask support. I don't even see it on their compatibility list yet.
> 
> 
> 
> https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019055957-Apple-Silicon-M1-Compatibility-Chart-for-Spitfire-Audio-Libraries



On 









Spitfire Audio — Abbey Road Two: Iconic Strings Professional


Iconic Strings Professional offers unlimited control and customisation. 2 modern mixes, 2 vintage mixes, 8 microphone positions and our most expressive legatos.



www.spitfireaudio.com





It says in the Mac system requirements: "M1 Apple computers are supported and 64 bit DAW required."


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## moon (Dec 10, 2021)

derschoenekarsten said:


> Anybody else having trouble installing this on an M1? Had the Pro download running all night and it doesn't seem to install the plug-ins (yes, I checked the actual Library folders). The "Repair" function in the SF doesn't install them either. DL'ing the lite version now, hope it'll work out.
> 
> It's a brand new machine and I just freshly installed ARO + Expansions, BBC SO and some Originals, all without issue. Any ideas are greatly appreciated!


What DAW are you using? If it’s Logic, a lot of the time, it won’t recognize new plugins unless you reboot.


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## Evans (Dec 10, 2021)

derschoenekarsten said:


> Anybody else having trouble installing this on an M1? Had the Pro download running all night and it doesn't seem to install the plug-ins (yes, I checked the actual Library folders). The "Repair" function in the SF doesn't install them either. DL'ing the lite version now, hope it'll work out.
> 
> It's a brand new machine and I just freshly installed ARO + Expansions, BBC SO and some Originals, all without issue. Any ideas are greatly appreciated!


As Nathan noted, contact Support. They're fast and friendly.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 10, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I also happen to like 8Dio’s Deep Solo instruments, but a lot of folks have been disappointed by them. What I particularly love about them is a certain grit, which -to my ears- sounds “real” whereas most on this forum seem to just call it “noisy and harsh”.


I love the gritty tone of the Deep Studio instruments as well, especially the cello. Shame the legato is so bad, but for textural longs they can be really beautiful in the right context.


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## Jdiggity1 (Dec 10, 2021)

Delboy said:


> I get that but why did they not do that with AR1 then ? ... just launched it with add ons to reel us all in.


I don't speak for Spitfire, but as a consumer the core/pro labels wouldn't make much sense to me for ARO:OF.
It's designed to be a "Foundations" library from the beginning. It's in the product's name.
Based on the sample content, it is not comprehensive, and therefore unsuitable for the "pro" label.
I was under the impression that AROOF was essentially the lower entry point library to compliment the upcoming modular libraries.


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## Jotto (Dec 10, 2021)

GMT said:


> As a Brit, I think I can say that it is our drinking, fighting, fucking-in-public that makes us so disliked abroad.


Spot on


----------



## LamaRose (Dec 10, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> The main issue is… you expecting _a realistic sound_. For solo instruments, based on samples with velocity layers, phasing is always going to be an issue, but in certain sweet spots it can sometimes have a “real” tone, until a phrase or CC controller triggers the next sample that is. If you want phasing-issue free instruments, physical modelling is the way forward, at the expense of tone and even less “realism”.
> 
> TL;DR: No.


Virharmonic utilizes velocity for dynamics in lieu of cc1 modulation and there is no phasing at all... fading between the dynamics is usually the problem... but not always. The Emotional Violin has some patches with little/no phasing and some that are quite noticeable to me... fortunately, there are plenty of clean articulations that cover a lot of ground. SF should experiment with the velocity control.


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## SonOfPeter (Dec 10, 2021)

I’m kind of disappointed this isn’t part of abbey road one. I guess I misunderstood but I thought I was buying in to a sort of “abbey road platform” with that. And that going forward I’d be able to buy in to an ever growing set of add-ons for it, picking out the specific modules I was interested in. (At a bit of a reduced cost having bought in to the others)


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## Raphioli (Dec 10, 2021)

Jdiggity1 said:


> You can delete the mics you don't want from Pro.
> 
> 
> I think of "pro" versions as being what the final product was always designed to be.
> ...


I personally see it that way too.

I mean, Spitfire could have just released the Pro version and call it "Abbey Road Two Iconic Strings" without the "Core" or "Pro" specification and put a 499 (full price) price tag on it.


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## tc9000 (Dec 11, 2021)

I'm so sorry. I couldn't resist it . But before you listen: this is made in 10 minutes, with no finessing. The first few notes of violin 1 sound off, but give it a chance. At times, I think it really shines. EDIT: this is AR2 core.

View attachment air on a g string - AR2 version.mp3


Everything I've done:
1. Download midi file from https://www.8notes.com/scores/20068.asp?ftype=midi
2. Lower midi velocity on violin 1 and 2
3. Lower violin 1 level by 2.46 dB
4. Violin 1 midi has rebowed notes, resulting in stuck notes on playback - I joined these up. I also pulled the end of the violin 1 notes back a bit.
5. Set all intruments to Legato (Slurred)
6. EDIT (I'm a nincompoop): Except bass - set it to pizzicato
7. Add *lots* of reverb (HDCart - Church preset)


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## Delboy (Dec 11, 2021)

SonOfPeter said:


> I’m kind of disappointed this isn’t part of abbey road one. I guess I misunderstood but I thought I was buying in to a sort of “abbey road platform” with that. And that going forward I’d be able to buy in to an ever growing set of add-ons for it, picking out the specific modules I was interested in. (At a bit of a reduced cost having bought in to the others)


Thats what I think also .. feel a bit conned


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## tc9000 (Dec 11, 2021)

I tried to do a CSSS version. One thing thats clear is none of these are point and click libraries - they are so exposed, they really need lots and lots of finessing and care. In the hands of someone who knows what they are doing (e.g. not me) they could be stunning. Bass is AR2 core. There's def something wrong with the timing also - that's on me, not CSSS.

View attachment air on a g string - CSSS version.mp3


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## AndyP (Dec 11, 2021)

Oh wow, my ears are bleeding. I'm afraid that's not how it works. It all sounds terrible and that doesn't do any of these libraries justice.

Please don't feel offended, but these comparisons don't do anything for me except make my teeth hurt.


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## prodigalson (Dec 11, 2021)

Calagan said:


> At first listen, I was amazed by this release because I liked very much the general tone and the idea of recreating the Abbey Road vintage sound (Eleanor Rigby and so on).
> Actually I still think it sounds great and it's a success regarding the vintage idea (even if yes, the violin is a bit harsh, and sometimes I've got impression it's a bit false too).
> 
> But in a lot of demos I too can hear the phasing/fake sound in quick legato phrases. This is the most embarassing issue for me.
> ...


MSS solo Strings comes pretty close if the tone is your cup of tea.


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## tc9000 (Dec 11, 2021)

AndyP said:


> Oh wow, my ears are bleeding. I'm afraid that's not how it works. It all sounds terrible and that doesn't do any of these libraries justice.
> 
> Please don't feel offended, but these comparisons don't do anything for me except make my teeth hurt.


Not offended and fully agree - these are highly highly unfair to the libraries. Shoving unrelated MIDI data at a library is never going to present it in a good light. It is, of course, especially tough for solo strings libraries as they are so, so exposed. These are like torture tests - my apologies to the vendors.

That said, showing them in such a negative light can tell you *something* about a library. As long as you listen knowing that the library has been brutally slapped in the face with a random MIDI file. It's like the antithesis of the lovingly massaged, dressed demo HAHA.


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## prodigalson (Dec 11, 2021)

Having just scratched the surface of this and looked through the content of each patch, I can tell that this is a somewhat unusual approach for Spitfire. The spitfire sonic love is all there but what surprises me the most is the variety of shorts (Spiccatissimo in addition to Spiccato, Staccato and Marcato?!?) and the consistency between patches. Each instrument has the same articulations!!  

My biggest pet peave about Spitfire Solo Strings is the bizarre selection of articulations between patches. 

also at 292 GB surely there are sufficient velocity layers and it’s not just microphone bloat? We’ll see…


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## MaxOctane (Dec 11, 2021)

tc9000 said:


> That said, showing them in such a negative light can tell you *something* about a library.



Realistically, it probably shows the upper limit of what a lot of people can achieve with these libs, due to their own limitations. At the very least, I'm speaking for myself.

The folks writing the official demos are very skilled, and even got amazing results years ago with libs we've now moved past and forgotten. What we hear in the demos is as much (or more) their own composition and editing skills, as much as the lib itself.


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## idematoa (Dec 11, 2021)

Some elements of comparison... Test Legato

*01 - Spitfire Audio - BBC Symphony Orchestra Violins 1 Leader - Legato*
*02 - Spitfire Audio - Spitfire Studio Strings - Legato
03 - Spitfire Audio - Spitfire Solo Strings - Violin (virtuoso) - Total Performance*
*04 - Spitfire Audio - Spitfire Solo Strings -Violin (1st Desk) - Legato

*


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## zeng (Dec 11, 2021)

What do you think if you compare "Abbey Road Two vs Vienna Synchron Elite Strings"?


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## yiph2 (Dec 11, 2021)

zeng said:


> What do you think if you compare "Abbey Road Two vs Vienna Synchron Elite Strings"?


Isn't Elite Strings a chamber size?


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## zeng (Dec 11, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> Isn't Elite Strings a chamber size?


Yes but has also divisi mics


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## gpax (Dec 11, 2021)

Lee Blaske said:


> Okay, downloaded the Professional version (it's a lot of data!). First impressions... The short articulations are really delicious. For a really present, in-your-face sound, I don't think there's a lot of competition. I like the section patches a lot, too. I can see that crafting a piece with a good mixture of sustained and short articulations will take some effort.
> 
> With the short articulations being quite responsive to keyboard velocity, I think this library is going to really require a quality keyboard to play expressively. I doubt that anything with a FATAR action (Native Instruments Komplete, etc.) is going to cut it. I think you're going to really want to have predictable response from key to key (Kawai VPC1, Yamaha Motif, Korg Kronos, etc. level of keyboard velocity precision). You're also going to want to tweak the velocity scaling. If you hit the top levels too often, it's going to sound phony.
> 
> ...


This is where VI-Control perplexes me. I think you need to be careful when assessing velocity response for any keyboard you don’t necessarily own or use (including making recommendations).

I often prefer my Komplete 61 controller over my other fully weighted 88 controller, for reasons I’m sure we could all unpack, and digest, especially when it comes to velocity relative to various virtual instruments - and also how individual playing styles factor in as well. At some point years ago, I actually migrated away from piano-playing in all my strings, brass and winds, much preferring different responses from different keyboards I now own and use.

As I began to play through AR 2 Pro yesterday, I instinctively reached for that “bounce back” in the spring/action of my KK, which, in my brain, more readily registers as bow strikes. In terms of a harder attack, yes, that threshold is apparent in the software, though even the smaller mini key Arturia that sits right under my Mac gave me a precise (and intentionally aggressive) response on the cello and double bass.

There are too many variables, keyboards and playing styles for me to agree fully with your assessment here. And, like any sample library, real-time performance and follow up MIDI editing are all part of an essential dance as I began to lay down tracks with AR 2. Taken at face value, you seem to be saying that only in the right hands, with the right keyboard, can the deserving coax this library’s nuances.

And then a bunch of people clicked like, which is what perplexes me most.

EDIT: as an addendum, it occurs to me that dusting off my Maschine Mk3 and trying the AR 2 with velocity sensitive pads is going to be fun as well…


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## Calagan (Dec 11, 2021)

tc9000 said:


> I'm so sorry. I couldn't resist it . But before you listen: this is made in 10 minutes, with no finessing. The first few notes of violin 1 sound off, but give it a chance. At times, I think it really shines. EDIT: this is AR2 core.
> 
> View attachment air on a g string - AR2 version.mp3
> 
> ...


Very interesting. I think it says a lot about the library to just copy/paste and play without any edition. 
In this exemple, you can hear it can sound potentially great but the violin is very harsh, and actually you can even hear this in the Spitfire exemples. It's even a bit moving in terms of pitch (in the Spitfire exemples).
But I guess you can EQ it. Could be fun that more users of AR2 propose their own take of this piece (from the exact same midi tracks). It's a good way to see how you can use the violin in particular...


----------



## ism (Dec 11, 2021)

AndyP said:


> Oh wow, my ears are bleeding. I'm afraid that's not how it works. It all sounds terrible and that doesn't do any of these libraries justice.
> 
> Please don't feel offended, but these comparisons don't do anything for me except make my teeth hurt.


This is always the danger with solo string libraries, other than one designed explitly for extreme plonkability. 

But if you want solo strings to perform together as musicians in an ensemble, you have to design for performability. 

When means that at least some (but realistically, probably most) early user demos (including, I'm, sorry to say, some of mine on the Spitfire Solo String thread) are going to be painful.

So let's take the occasional painful early user demos as at least a potential sign that this is library with great promise in performability.


----------



## babylonwaves (Dec 11, 2021)

Here's a short test (and no, it doesn't sound polished and is not intended to). I didn't try to make something nice. A small Spiccatissimo/spiccato/pizzicato mix pattern played by the entire quintet. It is just Mix 1 with the default 28% reverb.

The four bar pattern repeats for six times and each time, I raise the velocity of all instruments by 10 steps. As you can here, there is a huge dynamic range and as you can also here, the soft notes are not harsh or nasal but the hard notes (the ones you don't want to hit often) do sound harsh, in a good way. This is how a real string instrument sounds and it down to the programming how he's using the dynamic range. There are a lot of other string libraries where the players simply do not deliver the upper 15% in AR2.


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## Evans (Dec 11, 2021)

Awesome! I really appreciate a fairly "clinical" test like this. Spitfire's own demos show musicality, but what I want to know are quirks and dynamic range jumps and stereo field weirdness!


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## JohnG (Dec 11, 2021)

I decided to go for it, based on @re-peat 's endorsement and the demos. Even if all I ever use is the shorts, that alone seems worth it to me for the amazing colour. I don't have any other solo string libraries and this is the first one that I really liked.

And even though I'm not keen on portamento (or even vibrato half the time) I am going for the pro version. Looks juicy.

[note: I have received free products from Spitfire Audio]


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## borisb2 (Dec 11, 2021)

Dang… Moving houses at the moment. Can’t download until .. I don’t even know. How bad am I missing out?


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## styledelk (Dec 11, 2021)

borisb2 said:


> Dang… Moving houses at the moment. Can’t download until .. I don’t even know. How bad am I missing out?


Buying doesn't have to include downloading...


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 11, 2021)

styledelk said:


> Buying doesn't have to include downloading...


One might say that buying without downloading is the purest form of buying.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 11, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> One might say that buying without downloading is the purest form of buying.


And it would be a true Virtual Instrument


----------



## madfloyd (Dec 11, 2021)

babylonwaves said:


> Here's a short test (and no, it doesn't sound polished and is not intended to). I didn't try to make something nice. A small Spiccatissimo/spiccato/pizzicato mix pattern played by the entire quintet. It exactly how Mix 1 with the default of 28% reverb sounds.
> 
> The four bar pattern repeats for six times and each time, I raise the velocity of all instruments by 10 steps. As you can here, there is a huge dynamic range and as you can also here, the soft notes are not harsh or nasal but the hard notes (the ones you don't want to hit often) do sound harsh, in a good way. This is how a real string instrument sounds and it down to the programming how he's using the dynamic range. There are a lot of other string libraries where the players simply do not deliver the upper 15% in AR2.


I've listened to this on two different sets of monitors and don't find anything harsh here. Compared to many string quartets I've listened to, this is quite tame and relaxing sounding.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 11, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> One might say that buying without downloading is the purest form of buying.


The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.


----------



## jamie8 (Dec 11, 2021)

tc9000 said:


> I'm so sorry. I couldn't resist it . But before you listen: this is made in 10 minutes, with no finessing. The first few notes of violin 1 sound off, but give it a chance. At times, I think it really shines. EDIT: this is AR2 core.
> 
> View attachment air on a g string - AR2 version.mp3
> 
> ...


is it just me or does the violins sound more on the bagpipe side ?


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## borisb2 (Dec 11, 2021)

styledelk said:


> Buying doesn't have to include downloading...


I thought this time I make a difference…


----------



## fiction (Dec 11, 2021)

Really happy with this library so far. 

I really love both the shorts and the longs and the library has a great feel to it when being played, it's inspiring me to write music right away instead of fixing some tone or transition problem. 

The microphone mixes are great too, providing some great alternatives which sound very different. 

I wasn't expecting no vibrato control on the legatos (didn't check before buying) but it's proving to be much easier to write this way. 

To be honest I've always struggled with the Spitfire Solo Strings room prominence and bumpiness and it feels good to have a solid alternative that sounds just like I would like them to sound.


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## babylonwaves (Dec 11, 2021)

madfloyd said:


> I've listened to this on two different sets of monitors and don't find anything harsh here. Compared to many string quartets I've listened to, this is quite tame and relaxing sounding.


@madfloyd

Somebody else used the words harsh. I've just picked it up. Eventually it's my limited understanding, I'm not a native speaker. What I refer to is how hard, especially the cello, is played on the last passage. You can hear that the bow rips over the strings, I consider this something good (especially when I blend the library with a larger section). maybe the word harsh is not the best way to describe this.


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## zeng (Dec 11, 2021)

So what about Sacconi Quartet vs this one then? Difference of players and studio?


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 11, 2021)

tc9000 said:


> I tried to do a CSSS version. One thing thats clear is none of these are point and click libraries - they are so exposed, they really need lots and lots of finessing and care. In the hands of someone who knows what they are doing (e.g. not me) they could be stunning. Bass is AR2 core. There's def something wrong with the timing also - that's on me, not CSSS.
> 
> View attachment air on a g string - CSSS version.mp3


This sounds like a organ to me


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## soulofsound (Dec 11, 2021)

JohnG said:


> It's really hard to replicate a string quartet / quintet, especially the violins. This is pretty good.
> 
> Core vs. pro? It's partly the pieces themselves and the reverb / mic choices, but of the demos I preferred the two demos that are labeled "core edition" by Dan Keen and Lucie Treacher:
> 
> ...


Dan Keen is a brilliant composer. That said if i'd buy core i'd want all possible portamento and legato, just not as much mics.


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## gpax (Dec 11, 2021)

zeng said:


> So what about Sacconi Quartet vs this one then? Difference of players and studio?


A quintet vs. quartet, of course, but also Sacconi was recorded in a hall that colors it a bit too much for my purposes (even with the close mics). A number of users even regard it for sketching purposes only, as you can find in some earlier threads. 

I am literally swapping out things in a current musical theatre project, and the immediate resonance, presence and energy of the AR room delivers a drier, more present sound (and energy) that I've tried to get with Sacconi (and some other solo libraries), but nowhere as close to what AR 2 does with just the Mix 1 alone. 

Similar to what JohnG posted, the shorts alone were what compelled me.


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## José Herring (Dec 11, 2021)

madfloyd said:


> I've listened to this on two different sets of monitors and don't find anything harsh here. Compared to many string quartets I've listened to, this is quite tame and relaxing sounding.


Exactly.

The real thing when recorded can sound really piercing close mic'd. After all these steel strings were made to project to the back of the hall. For classical recordings the way around it is to move the mics to the edge of the stage and also use hall mics. For more film, record productions in a studio, it's EQ + mic positions in the studio.

I actually find the sound of these strings rather natural sounding.


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## Calagan (Dec 11, 2021)

Don't you find the violin a bit... harsh/nasal/bag-pipy ?
Maybe it can be tamed or controled with a simple EQ. I don't know.
I love the sound of AR2 in general (as far as I can hear from the demos), but the violin sometimes just makes me notice him too much, because of its strange sound...
Maybe it's question of "virtual" placement, as usually you don't hear a violin so dry and closed miked (like you said). Maybe it could be tamed with some short reverb with a lot of early reflection.


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## Soundbed (Dec 11, 2021)

Hey so I've been playing around with these (core) trying to find their sweet spots.


Legato is a bit of a chore for me, like some other Spitfire products. It sounds fine to my ears, but I'm not a card carrying member of the legato police. It's a little difficult to work with, for me. I've been spoiled by delay compensated MSS, where the notes actually sound wherever you put them on the grid, plus having faster or more slurred legato transitions available.
Shorts sound great. There's a bit of a jump between most of the loudest and medium loud shorts though. It's a definitely choice. You either need to settle with the medium loud or deal with the super loud, aggressive one. Unfortunately the timing of the second violin and viola doesn't seem as tight as the violin 1 and cello sometimes.
Oh man the flautando is to die for, and the core package could be worth it for a small minority to get the flautando alone. It sounds like the perfect companion for Tundra. Match made in heaven.
I tried some pop stuff and disco stuff and even a couple Beatles melodies and it really wasn't functioning the way I wanted most of the time. There's a delay in the peformance legato so you need to start with the Live patch I guess, and rough it in, and then wiggle notes to deal with the timing stuff, and still it isn't super expressive in the sense that you cannot "legato transition into" a note that is emphasized and strong (like a short) — something I'd want to do in those styles ... swung rhythms with accents on the offbeat; da-DUNK, dee-DUN, DUN type stuff is sort of clunky and robotic sounding, even while the TONE sounds spot on. It does have the right sound. But it's frustrating to try to get the phrasing I want. Mod wheel and dynamics and stuff only has "limited" effect. Changing articulations has the expected inconsistencies. Doesn't sound like the same "phrase" often ... more like skipping to a different section of the song.
But for scoring purposes, like things that people might have gotten the Ashen Scoring Cello or the Sonixinema violin & cello for ... that stuff without too much of the extended techniques, this probably would be great, and I might change my focus toward those ideas more.
As much as I'd like to use this for "pop" writing, I'd probably limit it to shorts and chords and longs with maybe a couple legato transitions but nothing approaching "real" strings writing. It's possible the Pro version has enough of what I'm missing to put those phrases together, I guess.
The vintage mix is super panned, which is intentional, but in the core version it would take some panning effort to use those mics & treatments and get a different stereo image.
I'd be curious to hear others' thoughts on this type of stuff, anyone actually using it.


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## Soundbed (Dec 11, 2021)

Calagan said:


> Don't you find the violin a bit... harsh/nasal/bag-pipy ?
> Maybe it can be tamed or controled with a simple EQ. I don't know.
> I love the sound of AR2 in general (as far as I can hear from the demos), but the violin sometimes just makes me notice him too much, because of its strange sound...
> Maybe it's question of "virtual" placement, as usually you don't hear a violin so dry and closed miked (like you said). Maybe it could be tamed with some short reverb with a lot of early reflection.


I think it sounds as intended. I have zero problems with it.


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## filipjonathan (Dec 11, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Hey so I've been playing around with these (core) trying to find their sweet spots.
> 
> 
> Legato is a bit of a chore for me, like some other Spitfire products. It sounds fine to my ears, but I'm not a card carrying member of the legato police. It's a little difficult to work with, for me. I've been spoiled by delay compensated MSS, where the notes actually sound wherever you put them on the grid, plus having faster or more slurred legato transitions available.
> ...


Thanks for this review. You just spared me the agony of saving up and eventually getting disappointed.


----------



## Trace (Dec 11, 2021)

derschoenekarsten said:


> Anybody else having trouble installing this on an M1? Had the Pro download running all night and it doesn't seem to install the plug-ins (yes, I checked the actual Library folders). The "Repair" function in the SF doesn't install them either. DL'ing the lite version now, hope it'll work out.
> 
> It's a brand new machine and I just freshly installed ARO + Expansions, BBC SO and some Originals, all without issue. Any ideas are greatly appreciated!


You need to install both. I had this issue as well.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 11, 2021)

jamie8 said:


> is it just me or does the violins sound more on the bagpipe side ?


Wait! Didn't I say it would be a bagpipe library? They just blended it with strings! 


I've actually liked all the shorts I've heard so far. The longs just have that sharp edge that can probably be tamed by some experts here. And maybe with a mix with far/room mics, it might soften. Sorry, I am currently fighting my usual "it's winter, we are using the drying out heater" sinusitis, and those screeching longs really hurt my ears, which are a little plugged right now. I look forward to hearing some more massaged examples.


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## Evans (Dec 11, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Oh man the flautando is to die for, and the core package could be worth it for a small minority to get the flautando alone. It sounds like the perfect companion for Tundra. Match made in heaven.


I hate you.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 11, 2021)

Evans said:


> I hate you.


It's like we're all settled, managing GAS and convincing ourselves that these are nice solo strings but we don't really need them, then it's all:


Soundbed said:


> Oh man the flautando is to die for, and the core package could be worth it for a small minority to get the flautando alone. It sounds like the perfect companion for Tundra. Match made in heaven.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 11, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> It's like we're all settled, managing GAS and convincing ourselves that these are nice solo strings but we don't really need them, then it's all:


Next year. For once, I am out of money before drive space. Probably because I spent money on drive space instead of libraries this BF.

I mean _more_ money on drives than libraries.


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## Karma (Dec 11, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Legato is a bit of a chore for me, like some other Spitfire products. It sounds fine to my ears, but I'm not a card carrying member of the legato police. It's a little difficult to work with, for me. I've been spoiled by delay compensated MSS, where the notes actually sound wherever you put them on the grid, plus having faster or more slurred legato transitions available.


I should clarify that the legato is timed here. Speed slider at 0% is 150ms, 50% is 125ms, and 100% is 100ms. You'll find you can quantize these with an offset and it'll be in time!


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## Soundbed (Dec 11, 2021)

Karma said:


> I should clarify that the legato is timed here. Speed slider at 0% is 150ms, 50% is 125ms, and 100% is 100ms. You'll find you can quantize these with an offset and it'll be in time!


Hmm, even the first note? And consistent for all instruments? If this is supposed to be consistent, then I can submit "issue reports" of places where I find it to be inconsistent... if you think that will help. (?)

EDIT - also, I cannot adjust tightness in the Core version... (?) It seems closest to -125ms in performance legato for the violin 1


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## Karma (Dec 11, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Hmm, even the first note? And consistent for all instruments? If this is supposed to be consistent, then I can submit "issue reports" of places where I find it to be inconsistent... if you think that will help. (?)


Oh no, the intervals themselves only in this case, which is what the Speed slider controls. But yes consistent for every legato!


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## Petrucci (Dec 11, 2021)

Mmm, if I was slightly thinking of choosing between IS2 Core and Virharmonic Violin, Cello and later Viola for lyrical stuff, what would I better choose...?)


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## Soundbed (Dec 11, 2021)

Karma said:


> Oh no, the intervals themselves only in this case, which is what the Speed slider controls. But yes consistent for every legato!


I guess I could put together some demonstrations where I'm finding it not super consistent for the team's consideration. It's possible what I'm experiencing was not intended or not reported during the beta testing.


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## madfloyd (Dec 11, 2021)

Karma said:


> I should clarify that the legato is timed here. Speed slider at 0% is 150ms, 50% is 125ms, and 100% is 100ms. You'll find you can quantize these with an offset and it'll be in time!


So this isn't a track delay approach, it's a 'select all legato notes other than the first one and shift them according to the speed slider' process?


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## Soundbed (Dec 11, 2021)

Petrucci said:


> Mmm, if I was slightly thinking of choosing between IS2 Core and Virharmonic Violin, Cello and later Viola for lyrical stuff, what would I better choose...?)


Depending on what you mean by "lyrical" the Virharmonic series may have scripting that is closer to what you want ... although it's a close mic with reverb. Whereas AR2 has gorgeous tone and a more straightforward approach.

Here is a comparison of the violins:

(btw I forgot that Virharmonic uses velocity for dynamics, so I played a couple notes "too hard" at first.)


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## Noeticus (Dec 11, 2021)

Just in case this has not already been posted...


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## Soundbed (Dec 11, 2021)

madfloyd said:


> So this isn't a track delay approach, it's a 'select all legato notes other than the first one and shift them according to the speed slider' process?


I would do it in reverse; set track delay to -125 ms (in Core) and move the first notes later


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## Soundbed (Dec 11, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> Just in case this has not already been posted...



hi! that video sounds distorted, pushed, no? ... doesn't sound like that out of the box, to me .. (?)


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## Noeticus (Dec 11, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> hi! that video sounds distorted, pushed, no? ... doesn't sound like that out of the box, to me .. (?)


I agree, doesn't sound right. But at least he tried.


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## axb312 (Dec 11, 2021)

Aitcpiano said:


> Apparently the CSS update is going to add true-legato non vibrato transitions, so i'm not sure if this will add some more control to the vibrato amount for CSS.
> 
> It would be nice to have some more control and reduce the legato amount on the CSSS, especially on the violins. However I still think that probably out of the solo string libraries I have and have tried, CSSS with its heavy vibrato it still probably one of the better solo string libraries and probably the one I would use if I needed to write some solo string parts with samples. Just like all the rest of the series it is just all very consistent.


Where did you hear/ read that the update will include true-legato non vibrato transitions?


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## muziksculp (Dec 11, 2021)

Petrucci said:


> Mmm, if I was slightly thinking of choosing between IS2 Core and Virharmonic Violin, Cello and later Viola for lyrical stuff, what would I better choose...?)


If Lyrical is the main focus, I would go with Virharmonic's solo strings. I'm waiting for their new Player to be released this month, and maybe the Viola as well.


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## Evans (Dec 11, 2021)

Whoops.


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## Petrucci (Dec 11, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Depending on what you mean by "lyrical" the Virharmonic series may have scripting that is closer to what you want ... although it's a close mic with reverb. Whereas AR2 has gorgeous tone and a more straightforward approach.
> 
> Here is a comparison of the violins:
> 
> (btw I forgot that Virharmonic uses velocity for dynamics, so I played a couple notes "too hard" at first.)




That was fast! Thanks a lot! Virharmonic sounds more "lyrical" to my ears, though maybe its reverb is fooling me..! =)) Is it hard to play it in with no CC expression?


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## holywilly (Dec 11, 2021)

Petrucci said:


> That was fast! Thanks a lot! Virharmonic sounds more "lyrical" to my ears, though maybe its reverb is fooling me..! =)) Is it hard to play it in with no CC expression?


Not at all, Virharmonic violin/cello are very easy to work with, just editing the note velocity and note length will get very satisfied result. And CC11 can add extra emotion to it.


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## jamie8 (Dec 11, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Depending on what you mean by "lyrical" the Virharmonic series may have scripting that is closer to what you want ... although it's a close mic with reverb. Whereas AR2 has gorgeous tone and a more straightforward approach.
> 
> Here is a comparison of the violins:
> 
> (btw I forgot that Virharmonic uses velocity for dynamics, so I played a couple notes "too hard" at first.)



AR two still sounds off, synthy,... bagpipe shrill,... not really sure what is putting me off this but i have found it is not to my taste, and i stand by my impression , yes it is hard to make a solo instrument sound like it is real and i really wanted to like this ...... please fix this spitfire as the room tone and shorts are amazing but the rest ,eh.. not so much, also they need to rethink this not including all the legato stuff, ... they tout this as being that famous sound ,beatlesque etc, and i for one was thrilled as i have abby one bbcpro and hans zimmer to name a few but this is becoming a disappointment from what i am hearing . some will complain about the legatos in bbcpro but i am finding ,at least from the demos i have heard so far that bbcpro with its limited round robins..well better,
and abby road one although it is a curated ensemble the tone , yes i know multiple players compared to few but still ... and chamber strings, yes with the built in tone in the close mics still better and i am a spitfire fan boy lol.but still i would probably purchase it if it had the legato portamento included with the core ,but at the large requirements for sample data in pro i feel im being taken and so for now its a pass.


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## Soundbed (Dec 11, 2021)

Evans said:


> Whoops.


you bought it?


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## Petrucci (Dec 11, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Not at all, Virharmonic violin/cello are very easy to work with, just editing the note velocity and note length will get very satisfied result. And CC11 can add extra emotion to it.


Guess I'll have to spend more time with my Synchronized Solo Strings which I purchased 2 months ago but didn't have time to properly dive in - to stop my Gas... Or maybe not lol))


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 11, 2021)

jamie8 said:


> AR two still sounds off, synthy,... bagpipe shrill,... not really sure what is putting me off this but i have found it is not to my taste, and i stand by my impression , yes it is hard to make a solo instrument sound like it is real and i really wanted to like this ...... please fix this spitfire as the room tone and shorts are amazing but the rest ,eh.. not so much, also they need to rethink this not including all the legato stuff, ... they tout this as being that famous sound ,beatlesque etc, and i for one was thrilled as i have abby one bbcpro and hans zimmer to name a few but this is becoming a disappointment from what i am hearing . some will complain about the legatos in bbcpro but i am finding ,at least from the demos i have heard so far that bbcpro with its limited round robins..well better,
> and abby road one although it is a curated ensemble the tone , yes i know multiple players compared to few but still ... and chamber strings, yes with the built in tone in the close mics still better and i am a spitfire fan boy lol.but still i would probably purchase it if it had the legato portamento included with the core ,but at the large requirements for sample data in pro i feel im being taken and so for now its a pass.


Yes, there will always be libraries that are not for you however much everyone else loves them. I try to avoid thinking that a library is bad just because I don't like it. Rather I recognize such a library is just not suited for me. But there are also libraries you grow into, libraries that initially push you away or that present enigmas to you, but nevertheless provide good foils to your current music making and help expand your musical imagination. Those are good instruments to get. It's often hard to differentiate libraries that aren't suited to you and libraries that you will grow into, especially soon after release when everyone is fumbling around trying to figure out where the library's sweet spots lie.


----------



## Soundbed (Dec 11, 2021)

Here's some initial playing around ...

All Excerpts Use Performance Legato

Initial tests, not necessarily showing off the product in the best light... 

0:00 Vintage Mix - Arpeggios 
1:22 Mix 1 - Arpeggios 
2:28 Mix 1 - Disco / Motown "riff" 
3:10 Mix 1 - What d'ya Think? Fully Quantized 
4:08 Trying to play it ... Perf Legato delay ~125ms 

To play things in, I think you should try to use the "Live" patch and then assign articulations later, maybe. (?)


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 11, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Here's some initial playing around ...
> 
> All Excerpts Use Performance Legato
> 
> ...



Love how the arpeggios sound.
So far, the legatos sound consistent. 
By consistent, I mean the quality of them. 
(e.g. in SCS, there's gaps between the sustain and transition depending on which notes you transition between. basically there are hit and misses. )

Really wish, Spitfire would redo the legatos in HZS like this.


----------



## jamie8 (Dec 11, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, there will always be libraries that are not for you however much everyone else loves them. I try to avoid thinking that a library is bad just because I don't like it. Rather I recognize such a library is just not suited for me. But there are also libraries you grow into, libraries that initially push you away or that present enigmas to you, but nevertheless provide good foils to your current music making and help expand your musical imagination. Those are good instruments to get. It's often hard to differentiate libraries that aren't suited to you and libraries that you will grow into, especially soon after release when everyone is fumbling around trying to figure out where the library's sweet spots lie.


agreed you make some good points , but i have heard some of spitfires products that immediately made me want them... and also some like hans zimmer where i had to grow into, so i hope for both spitfires sake for all the investment that even goes into attempting this.{"cudos to spitfire" for we must realize how lucky we are to even be able to be in a time where we have this product and can make critiques of it"}
I hope it will be a great seller.. and i will want to purchase as well but as it stands and what i have heard albeit exposed and not in a mix other than their own demos... im not purchasing yet , also the legato thing really annoys me, it seems like a major marketing ploy to make you spend money and in a sense i suppose that's true , car manufactures do this , ... there's the base model and then there's the deluxe , its just a shame it seems that they are not including such a basic ... in my mind at least articulation , i have the drive space but i just cant seem to justify getting it for the one missing piece of the puzzle. i know it has a set of different mic samples etc but i myself don't need that, i also find that you induce phasing if you pull up the wrong config lol and i probably would. i am a huge fan of keep it simple, especially when in the midst of writing.


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## jamie8 (Dec 11, 2021)

Raphioli said:


> Love how the arpeggios sound.
> So far, the legatos sound consistent.
> By consistent, I mean the quality of them.
> (e.g. in SCS, there's gaps between the sustain and transition depending on which notes you transition between. basically there are hit and misses. )
> ...


HZS yes fix legatos


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## Soundbed (Dec 11, 2021)

Someone else will be able to write much better music than this. But I think these flautandos and sul tastos deserve some love. I am pretty tired after shoveling snow, taking kids to ski lessons, cleaning house, etc. and not super inspired right now to play ... but the raw sound itself is really lovely I think.

I only used flautando and sul tasto, tried to change from Vintage to Mix 1, and only the ensemble patch (where notes get auto-divided).

The crossfade between lowest and middle dynamic layers can be heard, particularly in the flautando, so when I moved the faders I started using only expression and stayed near the bottom of the mod wheel.



I was expecting @Evans to wait to see this before buying ... I guess I was too late.


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## holywilly (Dec 11, 2021)

@Soundbed 
I really appreciate that putting up the videos showing what this library is capable of. I’m still deciding between the core and pro, don’t know the portamento and extra mics worth the extra $150.


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## ag75 (Dec 11, 2021)

holywilly said:


> @Soundbed
> I really appreciate that putting up the videos showing what this library is capable of. I’m still deciding between the core and pro, don’t know the portamento and extra mics worth the extra $150.


You can always update to the full later.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 11, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Here's some initial playing around ...
> 
> All Excerpts Use Performance Legato
> 
> ...



Thanks for putting this up. Some of it sounds really lovely, then you get those weird buzzing, bagpipe notes. I kind of wonder if it is phasing? It seems to happen mostly when multiple instruments hold a note. It is not as noticeable on the shorts/shorter notes or when a single instrument plays. 

And if these are mostly for pop music, you don't really do soaring violin parts, right?


----------



## GNP (Dec 11, 2021)

ag75 said:


> You can always update to the full later.


I'm going to purchase Core, but was wondering how the actual update to the full version is done?


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 11, 2021)

GNP said:


> I'm going to purchase Core, but was wondering how the actual update to the full version is done?


Usually it is just the difference. But during sales, it is the difference in sales prices.

Edit: Spitfire is one of the good developers when it comes to upgrades and bundle prices. They always give proper credit for what you have as long as you are signed in.


----------



## GNP (Dec 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Usually it is just the difference. But during sales, it is the difference in sales prices.


I understand. No I meant the actual basic process of updating from Core to Pro itself - is there a "Core owners, please upgrade here by clicking on this link" sorta thing?


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Dec 11, 2021)

GNP said:


> I understand. No I meant the actual basic process of updating from Core to Pro itself - is there a "Core owners, please upgrade here by clicking on this link" sorta thing?








It's split into two downloads, so you can install the "pro" content separately once it's added to your account.

Edit: oh... you probably mean how do you _purchase_ the upgrade...
I think you just purchase pro and it adjusts the price accordingly.


----------



## GNP (Dec 11, 2021)

Jdiggity1 said:


> It's split into two downloads, so you can install the "pro" content separately once it's added to your account.
> 
> Edit: oh... you probably mean how do you _purchase_ the upgrade...
> I think you just purchase pro and it adjusts the price accordingly.


Ahhh right right, i see! Ok thanks!


----------



## ptram (Dec 12, 2021)

This library is by program not made for classical music. As someone accustomed to solo strings as used in classical music, I feel in the demos a sound that I would describe as "electric".

I would like to understand what's the referring repertory for this kind of sound. There is also a "vintage mix", so it's obviously pointing to existing music, and not even from a recent past.

Any hint on the cultural roots of this sound?

Paolo


----------



## gussunkri (Dec 12, 2021)

ptram said:


> This library is by program not made for classical music. As someone accustomed to solo strings as used in classical music, I feel in the demos a sound that I would describe as "electric".
> 
> I would like to understand what's the referring repertory for this kind of sound. There is also a "vintage mix", so it's obviously pointing to existing music, and not even from a recent past.
> 
> ...


The Beatles


----------



## sumskilz (Dec 12, 2021)

ptram said:


> This library is by program not made for classical music. As someone accustomed to solo strings as used in classical music, I feel in the demos a sound that I would describe as "electric".
> 
> I would like to understand what's the referring repertory for this kind of sound. There is also a "vintage mix", so it's obviously pointing to existing music, and not even from a recent past.
> 
> ...


The Beatles as already mentioned, and in particular this:




Although, rather than a quintet, this was a double quartet recorded in Abbey Road Studio Two.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 12, 2021)

sumskilz said:


> The Beatles as already mentioned, and in particular this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The fifth Beatle right there.


----------



## zeng (Dec 12, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Someone else will be able to write much better music than this. But I think these flautandos and sul tastos deserve some love. I am pretty tired after shoveling snow, taking kids to ski lessons, cleaning house, etc. and not super inspired right now to play ... but the raw sound itself is really lovely I think.
> 
> I only used flautando and sul tasto, tried to change from Vintage to Mix 1, and only the ensemble patch (where notes get auto-divided).
> 
> ...



I think this flautando patch is enough to buy at least core version?


----------



## GMT (Dec 12, 2021)

Listening to all these demos, it is very clear exactly how this was intended to be used. As an exposed quintet I don't think it really cuts it, and certainly not for straight classical or harder hybrid stuff.

I can see where this will really shine is in pop arrangements as I think it was advertised. The strings angularity will cut through the mix very well, I think, but because of the small size will not overpower the arrangement. The Beatles 'Eleanor Rigby' thing is spot on. Not quite so sure how it would go in modern pop music as it does have a vintage vibe.

So, like so many libraries by Spitfire, it will fit a certain niche and do that very well indeed, but should be purchased bearing that in mind.


----------



## holywilly (Dec 12, 2021)

Bought the Core, can’t wait to rock this library on my upcoming production music project. 

Thanks @Soundbed for all the video demonstrations.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 12, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Bought the Core, can’t wait to rock this library on my upcoming production music project.
> 
> Thanks @Soundbed for all the video demonstrations.


What’s your upgrade to pro price?


----------



## holywilly (Dec 12, 2021)

easyrider said:


> What’s your upgrade to pro price?


$150 for upgrade to Pro, I pay $220 for Core. And $370 for pro itself.


----------



## Evans (Dec 12, 2021)

Downloaded Pro last night. Anyone else having extremely long load times here?

My other Spitfire libraries (proprietary plugin, such as Eric Whitacre Choir) on the same drive are pretty quick. Drive benchmark tested about 400 MB/s a couple of times this morning.

EDIT: Yeah, it's a weird slowness, about 15-30 second to load a patch with default mic. Sometimes even down to 2 MB/s for ARTIS when I activate a new mic, yet other libraries load fast enough to not really bother counting. I can effectively start playing "immediately" with any EWC patch.


----------



## Trevor Meier (Dec 12, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Here's some initial playing around ...
> 
> All Excerpts Use Performance Legato
> 
> ...



This is a really helpful demonstration. Shows a bit more of the range of the library.

How do you find AR2 next to MSS solo strings?

EDIT: That Glass-esque opening is also making me think of Samplemodeling Solo strings… I’ve been anxiously awaiting their v2 update. I hope it arrives soon, I think this passage would make a great comparison point


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 12, 2021)

GNP said:


> Ahhh right right, i see! Ok thanks!


Once you buy the core of any product, the pro version's price automatically discounts if you are signed in. Makes it easy to know the difference.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 12, 2021)

Raphioli said:


> Really wish, Spitfire would redo the legatos in HZS like this.


I very much like the current legatos in HZS, especially the violas. I just wish there was portamento. Of course you have to write lines suited for the very large ensemble that HZS is and not expect it to respond like chamber strings.


----------



## Evans (Dec 12, 2021)

This library would really benefit from a note retrigger (mostly, a manual rebow for the longs, but it would even be nice for the shorts).

Sure, it can be faked in several ways, but would be nice to have either a built-in retrigger via the sustain pedal (like many strings libs) or a specific "repeat key" (as is the case with Modern Scoring Strings and other libraries like ISW's Shreddage).


----------



## JohnG (Dec 12, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Here's some initial playing around ...


Thanks for posting @Soundbed 

I guess the problem with strictly quantized arpeggios is that they are almost never played that way (except maybe in Einstein on the Beach). Players massage those kinds of passages so they sound musical instead of being so strictly in time. The variations can be pretty subtle, but they make a huge difference.

A wonderful (somewhat extreme) example is found in James Newton HOward’s “The Village“ score.

However, despite quibbling over the performance and even though I really bought the library for the shorts, I thought your passages sounded pretty good.

The flautando and sul tasto sounded rather nice too.


----------



## Soundbed (Dec 12, 2021)

JohnG said:


> Thanks for posting @Soundbed
> 
> I guess the problem with strictly quantized arpeggios is that they are almost never played that way (except maybe in Einstein on the Beach). Players massage those kinds of passages so they sound musical instead of being so strictly in time. The variations can be pretty subtle, but they make a huge difference.
> 
> ...


Right, with "no talking" videos I don't always explain why I'd do something in a video and post it. Right now I'm a little burnt out on editing videos (and preparing content) so I'm posting little tidbits because I think they might have some value for some people. But I know they won't please all the people all the time. That video is "unlisted" at the moment on my channel and only available if one clicks the link, which is only available from this thread. The video has limited usefulness and is directed at a limited audience.

Personally, I don't feel I can competently play arpeggios on a keyboard like a string player would. I've never played them on a real stringed instrument either. And certainly I could not not with the performance legato delay (although the Live patch could be useful for that). And definitely not on this little flat XKey CME keyboard in my mobile rig ... so, I wasn't playing the arpeggios quantized to be the ultimate expression of musicality. And in fact, the lines probably need to be adjusted in order to be well written for a player in the first place.

That said, I was also impressed with how "not too shabby" it sounded. And so, I kept it there as-is for people to hear and evaluate on their own terms. I sometimes approach new sample instruments like a software tester, and other times as a music creative, and sometimes as both. In this case of the arpeggios, it was as a software tester more than a music creative type.

I was thinking of making a cue sort of like the theme to "Invasion" on Apple TV+.

I'll also check out The Village score, thanks!



Evans said:


> This library would really benefit from a note retrigger (mostly, a manual rebow for the longs, but it would even be nice for the shorts).
> 
> Sure, it can be faked in several ways, but would be nice to have either a built-in retrigger via the sustain pedal or a specific "repeat key" (as is the case with Modern Scoring Strings and other libraries like ISW's Shreddage).


Yes I agree. Hitting the same note again is not always doing what I want.



Trevor Meier said:


> This is a really helpful demonstration. Shows a bit more of the range of the library.
> 
> How do you find AR2 next to MSS solo strings?
> 
> EDIT: That Glass-esque opening is also making me think of Samplemodeling Solo strings… I’ve been anxiously awaiting their v2 update. I hope it arrives soon, I think this passage would make a great comparison point


I have done zero comparisons to MSS first chairs so far. So much to do ... but my initial impression would be that they are very different and I wouldn't necessarily use them both in the same composition without expecting to take on a bunch of audio engineering to get the MSS to "match" the AR2 sound(s). I wouldn't expect to try it the other way around. Hmm ... interesting idea though.

I don't know that I'm planning to invest in Samplemodeling [anything] yet. But I really was thinking about the future Infinite Strings from @aaronventure while I was playing with AR2. I was wanting to do with these strings what I can do with Infinite Woodwinds and Brass.



Evans said:


> Downloaded Pro last night. Anyone else having extremely long load times here?
> 
> My other Spitfire libraries (proprietary plugin, such as Eric Whitacre Choir) on the same drive are pretty quick. Drive benchmark tested about 400 MB/s a couple of times this morning.
> 
> EDIT: Yeah, it's a weird slowness, about 15-30 second to load a patch with default mic. Sometimes even down to 2 MB/s for ARTIS when I activate a new mic, yet other libraries load fast enough to not really bother counting. I can effectively start playing "immediately" with any EWC patch.


Yeah I think in one of my videos I showed the load time going extremely slowly, so I stopped the "everything" patch from loading and switched to only loading the articulation I wanted. That feature is super handy by the way.

I don't know why, because the drive they are on is reading at ~950MB/s according to Blackmagic Disk Speed Test. That said, I have backup software running in the background ... I wonder if that is playing a role?



holywilly said:


> Bought the Core, can’t wait to rock this library on my upcoming production music project.
> 
> Thanks @Soundbed for all the video demonstrations.


You're welcome! If they helped with a decision (one way or the other) I'm glad.


GMT said:


> Listening to all these demos, it is very clear exactly how this was intended to be used. As an exposed quintet I don't think it really cuts it, and certainly not for straight classical or harder hybrid stuff.
> 
> I can see where this will really shine is in pop arrangements as I think it was advertised. The strings angularity will cut through the mix very well, I think, but because of the small size will not overpower the arrangement. The Beatles 'Eleanor Rigby' thing is spot on. Not quite so sure how it would go in modern pop music as it does have a vintage vibe.
> 
> So, like so many libraries by Spitfire, it will fit a certain niche and do that very well indeed, but should be purchased bearing that in mind.


I agree they determined a niche and made a library for it. I do think it will work quite well for certain scoring tasks as well, in addition to some pop stuff. I sort of wish for a "Motown" style version of it and clearly that's more about me than Spitfire and their goals. I would probably even buy something that had little sampled phrases or "riffs". But this is not quite that.

I would think it could be used in something like a Bruno Mars song, BUT — when push comes to shove it would only be good enough for the mockup if you're getting into anything other than the limited techniques sampled. And the Bruno Mars production team would likely record with live players in the end.



zeng said:


> I think this flautando patch is enough to buy at least core version?


Exactly my thoughts. I think I even typed that somewhere as well.



dzilizzi said:


> Thanks for putting this up. Some of it sounds really lovely, then you get those weird buzzing, bagpipe notes. I kind of wonder if it is phasing? It seems to happen mostly when multiple instruments hold a note. It is not as noticeable on the shorts/shorter notes or when a single instrument plays.
> 
> And if these are mostly for pop music, you don't really do soaring violin parts, right?


I don't hear bagpipes. I don't really know what people are talking about, exactly. I expect it has something to do with playing quantized MIDI on multiple instruments, perhaps. (?) Not sure.

As for "soaring" parts ... I could imagine this for something that is so-called "Scandi" or maybe even a little Arvo Pärt with a couple flourishes as well as "pop".


----------



## Bernard Duc (Dec 12, 2021)

Evans said:


> Downloaded Pro last night. Anyone else having extremely long load times here?
> 
> My other Spitfire libraries (proprietary plugin, such as Eric Whitacre Choir) on the same drive are pretty quick. Drive benchmark tested about 400 MB/s a couple of times this morning.
> 
> EDIT: Yeah, it's a weird slowness, about 15-30 second to load a patch with default mic. Sometimes even down to 2 MB/s for ARTIS when I activate a new mic, yet other libraries load fast enough to not really bother counting. I can effectively start playing "immediately" with any EWC patch.


Windows? In which case des activate Windows Defender for your samples folder.


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## Evans (Dec 12, 2021)

Bernard Duc said:


> Windows? In which case des activate Windows Defender for your samples folder.


Yes, I have exclusions for all my VI-focused drives. And other libraries on the same drive (with said exclusion) load perfectly fine.

But good reminder for anyone who has not set that up!


----------



## styledelk (Dec 12, 2021)

My load times on Pro are also pretty slow on a newish external SSD (on Monterey).


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 12, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I don't hear bagpipes. I don't really know what people are talking about, exactly. I expect it has something to do with playing quantized MIDI on multiple instruments, perhaps. (?) Not sure.
> 
> As for "soaring" parts ... I could imagine this for something that is so-called "Scandi" or maybe even a little Arvo Pärt with a couple flourishes as well as "pop".


I do hear this sound in a lot of other libraries, such as CSS and I did hear it in MSS as well. I believe it is related to the vibrato layered on vibrato. I hear it mostly in flat chords (not modulated) and, depending on the sound of the violins, bagpipes describes what I hear pretty well. It is actually not an unusual sound with strings, a buzzy synth maybe? Just that normally, playing properly (?) - no triads, modulate the longs, etc... - takes away that buzzy synth sound. But even Paul, who normally plays these string libraries like a string player, got the buzzy synth sound. So, it may be the sound they were looking for this library.


----------



## audio1 (Dec 12, 2021)

Not thrilled with the mic selection and usage. And, using a whole bunch of mics kinda takes the charm out of what things actually sounds like in the room.

Thus dynamics/transients/blend/tone seem kinda flat and uninspiring.

Pro version @292GB seems to be overkill. Even [email protected] is a head scratcher for a string quartet plus Dbl bass.

Hard to tell how useful this release might be until you start digging in. Context and application matters more than the actual raw material and sound. Developers need to start creating more focused demos in different genres so we don't have to ask "how does it blend". 

Not saying I'm as disappointed in this release as I was with _Sonokinetic's_ new orchestral strings, but there is not anything here to get very excited about IMHO.

Great marketing as usual, but I'm just not feeling.


----------



## Calagan (Dec 12, 2021)

I find strange that you can find this library uninspiring.
That you don't like the sound, or don't need that sound, ok. But it sounds in a way no other string library is sounding. At least, IMHO...


----------



## re-peat (Dec 12, 2021)

audio1 said:


> 42GB is a head scratcher for a string quartet plus Dbl bass.


You’re the second person to make this very strange remark. As if a sample of a single violin should take up less disc space than that of a 16 violins section.

I disagree about “nothing to get excited about” by the way. I’ve been pretty excited all day, exploring the strengths AND weaknesses of AR2. (Some of the latter shouldn’t welcome you in a ‘pro’ version of a library, I feel.)

Anyway, found out, among other things, that AR2 is a fan-tas-tic tool if you wanna do those 70’s style Schifrin-esque string things (check the “Bullitt” score to get an idea of what I mean). A perfect fit.
Very pleasantly surprised as well by the fact it can also act as a great addition/expansion to OT’s Miroire. OK, any semblance of authenticity goes out the window if you do that, but that was never a real part of the mock-up game anyway, so who cares? Thing is, it works.

AR2 also nestles itself effortlessly in a mix like you wouldn’t believe possible. It sounds perfectly at home wherever you put it: up front or in the back.
The ridiculous overkill of mic perspectives in the abominable Spitfire Studio Series never made any sense to me at all — and, from the sound of it, neither to the poor engineers —, but the ones in AR2 really lift the library onto a level of sonic and spatial gorgeousness (and detail!) I haven't heard in *any* other sample library before (not even in BBCSO or AR1).
There's a sort of "intimacy that is allowed to breathe" here. Usually, intimacy in sample libraries is synonymous with a feeling of confinement and smallness. AR2 gives you the exact opposite (if you like that): expansive intimacy. Really nice. And with great musical versatility.

A case of jewelry, this library. OK, with a few regrettable flints in there as well, but mostly: exquisite, unique bijouterie. In my opinion.

_


----------



## chapbot (Dec 12, 2021)

I'm wanting to delete mics I don't need. Is it as simple as going in the folders and deleting them manually, or is there some other trick I don't know about?


----------



## audio1 (Dec 12, 2021)

re-peat said:


> You’re the second person to make this very strange remark. As if a sample of a single violin should take up less disc space than that of a 16 violins section.


The whole of AR1 ORCHESTRAL FOUNDATIONS is 69.60GB.

Compare that to this AR recorded quintet that equals 42GB {core} or 292GB {Pro}.

Point is, the AR quintet product uses a ridiculous amount of mics. I get that its to provide sonic options but it's not based in any sort of recording studio approach or realty. It reminds me of guys that put up 20 mics on a drum kit or use 6 mics on a GTR cab. 

Hence overkill, IMHO.


----------



## Evans (Dec 12, 2021)

chapbot said:


> I'm wanting to delete mics I don't need. Is it as simple as going in the folders and deleting them manually, or is there some other trick I don't know about?


It's the same as this method for BBCSO:


https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002636258-How-to-remove-microphones-from-BBC-Symphony-Orchestra-Professional



Ideally, you'll back up the mics to a slower storage location rather than a hard delete, because sometimes this can make the occasional Repair through the Spitfire app a bit of a nuisance. Support hasn't verified, but I'd swear that doing this has given me more of those Error 1/2/3 instances than if I hadn't messed with the mics.


----------



## audio1 (Dec 12, 2021)

Calagan said:


> I find strange that you can find this library uninspiring.
> That you don't like the sound, or don't need that sound, ok. But it sounds in a way no other string library is sounding. At least, IMHO...


Sorry, but it takes far more than a a string quintet to get me inspired.


----------



## Evans (Dec 12, 2021)

audio1 said:


> Sorry, but it takes far more than a a string quintet to get me inspired.


Funny, I don't need anything other than my hands slapping my belly to get inspired.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 12, 2021)

audio1 said:


> The whole of AR1 ORCHESTRAL FOUNDATIONS is 69.60GB.
> 
> Compare that to this AR recorded quintet that equals 42GB {core} or 292GB {Pro}.
> 
> ...


The size of a library is a product of the number of articulations, the number of dynamic layers and round robins, the length of the articulations, and the number of mics. It has nothing to do with the size of the ensemble. AROOF has no legatos, and legatos tend to take a fair amount of space. Longs like flautando do as well. 

AROOF has 2 mixes and 10 mics. ARTIS Pro has 4 mixes and 8 mics. So comparable. The difference in size lies elsewhere than the number of mics.


----------



## Soundbed (Dec 12, 2021)

Here's the first short (super simple) musical idea I've made with AR2. The first playback uses only internal Spitfire Player effects (compression and reverb) with the Vintage mix. The second pass adds a bunch of junk to make it sound a bit more "retro" and even more compressed and slightly more mono.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 12, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Here's the first short (super simple) musical idea I've made with AR2. The first playback uses only internal Spitfire Player effects (compression and reverb) with the Vintage mix. The second pass adds a bunch of junk to make it sound a bit more "retro" and even more compressed and slightly more mono.



There's definitely a distinct sound to these - reminiscent of the reference material (unsurprisingly). So in that sense, I guess they are a success. I wonder how they function though for other types of material and how they compare to other "dry" libraries (like Chris Hein).


----------



## jamie8 (Dec 12, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Here's the first short (super simple) musical idea I've made with AR2. The first playback uses only internal Spitfire Player effects (compression and reverb) with the Vintage mix. The second pass adds a bunch of junk to make it sound a bit more "retro" and even more compressed and slightly more mono.



this sounds ....better


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 12, 2021)

audio1 said:


> The whole of AR1 ORCHESTRAL FOUNDATIONS is 69.60GB.
> 
> Compare that to this AR recorded quintet that equals 42GB {core} or 292GB {Pro}.
> 
> ...


Im confused about the point you're trying to make here. If you take just the core version it's 5 instruments and 2 mic positions alone are 42GB which means that it's articulations, dynamic layers, attacks and releases i.e. content not mic bloat that make that up. Once you add the mic positions in Pro, yes you get to 292GB but that's only because the library is already substantial in content BEFORE multiplied by x.

It sounds like your actual point is that you don't see value in multiple mic positions and thats fine but I wouldn't agree it's because the library itself is being padded by mic positions.

I'll also say that @re-peat has been around here a very long time and is notoriously the member there thats likely the most critical of sample libraries and usually brutally honest in that opinion. When he is THIS positive about a library, I take notice. Definitely more than those "I'm a newbie but I'm disappointed!" posts. (thats directed generally, not at anyone in particular)


----------



## audio1 (Dec 12, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> The size of a library is a product of the number of articulations, the number of dynamic layers and round robins, the length of the articulations, and the number of mics. It has nothing to do with the size of the ensemble. AROOF has no legatos, and legatos tend to take a fair amount of space. Longs like flautando do as well.
> 
> AROOF has 2 mixes and 10 mics. ARTIS Pro has 4 mixes and 8 mics. So comparable. The difference in size lies elsewhere than the number of mics.


Well, a quick comparison - Cinematic Studio Solo Strings offers 1 version with many articulations, dynamic layers and RRs in a "pro" version {they don't offer core} @ 41.7GB. 

Equation is: Number of articulations, dynamic layers and round robins, length of the articulations X mics. 

With this new AR product, it's the enormous amount of unneeded microphone options, the "multiplier", which is the main offender in driving up file size and load times.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 12, 2021)

audio1 said:


> Well, a quick comparison - Cinematic Studio Solo Strings offers 1 version with many articulations, dynamic layers and RRs in a "pro" version {they don't offer core} @ 41.7GB.
> 
> Equation is: Number of articulations, dynamic layers and round robins, length of the articulations X mics.
> 
> With this new AR product, it's the enormous amount of unneeded microphone options, the "multiplier", which is the main offender in driving up file size and load times.


Unneeded by you. Really it's basically two sets of mics, one for the modern mics, one for the vintage mics. Don't presume they are unneeded or unwanted by others just because they aren't your jam. I'll be very happy to have them and I'm not even someone who spends a lot of time dialing in mics. Seriously if you don't want them, no one is making you buy this. If CSSS makes you happy, spend your time with it and its over the top vibrato!


----------



## Yogevs (Dec 12, 2021)

So I got the 25% discount because I own intimate Strings (I wonder why...). I wonder if it is worth it to me at that price to get yet another string library.


----------



## styledelk (Dec 12, 2021)

Disk space is cheap. Why is this even an issue. We should all hope for larger and larger, more detailed libraries.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 12, 2021)

styledelk said:


> Why is this even an issue.


I can only imagine it's because people like to complain.


----------



## audio1 (Dec 12, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Unneeded by you. Really it's basically two sets of mics, one for the modern mics, one for the vintage mics. Don't presume they are unneeded or unwanted by others just because they aren't your jam. I'll be very happy to have them and I'm not even someone who spends a lot of time dialing in mics. Seriously if you don't want them, no one is making you buy this. If CSSS makes you happy, spend your time with it and its over the top vibrato!


Was never debating vibrato or promoting CSSS over this product. 

Was pointing out huge files size is due to unneeded mics. 

I'm a less is more guy and have never been on a string session that used unneeded mics...and I've been on many...first as set up guy, then engineer, then composer / producer. 
But if 240GB of content recored using 150 mics inspire's people, I am happy for them.


----------



## audio1 (Dec 12, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Unneeded by you. Really it's basically two sets of mics, one for the modern mics, one for the vintage mics. Don't presume they are unneeded or unwanted by others just because they aren't your jam. I'll be very happy to have them and I'm not even someone who spends a lot of time dialing in mics. Seriously if you don't want them, no one is making you buy this. If CSSS makes you happy, spend your time with it and its over the top vibrato!


Was never debating vibrato or promoting CSSS over this product. Was just pointing out huge files size is due to unneeded mics. I'm a less is more guy and have never been on a string session that used unneeded mics...and I've been on many...first as set up guy, then engineer, then composer producer.


----------



## Zanshin (Dec 12, 2021)

I saw a lil doc where Hayao Miyazaki mic’d all way down to the individual players. Different strokes…


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## jbuhler (Dec 12, 2021)

audio1 said:


> But if 240GB of content recored using 150 mics inspire's people, I am happy for them.


It's not 150 mics, it's 8 mics and 4 mixes. And it's basically two sets of mics. If you don't like mic options, then Spitfire is probably not the company you should be buying sample libraries from.



audio1 said:


> Was just pointing out huge files size is due to unneeded mics.


They are unneeded by you, but why should your needs determine what other folks need? Again, I'm back at you should be buying from another company because your needs are not well matched to what Spitfire sells.


----------



## hauspe (Dec 12, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Here's the first short (super simple) musical idea I've made with AR2. The first playback uses only internal Spitfire Player effects (compression and reverb) with the Vintage mix. The second pass adds a bunch of junk to make it sound a bit more "retro" and even more compressed and slightly more mono.



As a string player I am -the sound is not really sparkling...far away from reality.


----------



## Soundbed (Dec 12, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> There's definitely a distinct sound to these - reminiscent of the reference material (unsurprisingly). So in that sense, I guess they are a success. I wonder how they function though for other types of material and how they compare to other "dry" libraries (like Chris Hein).


I have done a touch of Chris Hein Cello comparison so far ... but I only recently bought the Cello EX so I can only go so far in compare / contrast land across the instruments. what I am learning about the Chris Hein is the "body" IR is very important for the sound, plus which cello you pick (of the four).



jamie8 said:


> this sounds ....better


yeah this is more an idea born from playing with it for a few hours, plus, much thinking on what type of writing the library might be "good for" ... in a sense it arose as a piece "for the library" ...


hauspe said:


> As a string player I am -the sound is not really sparkling...far away from reality.


Which aspect do you think could be changed, to make it closer to reality? I'm trying to understand if there's a programming or writing aspect I could change, to make it more convincing.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Dec 12, 2021)

disappointed that nobody has mocked up the Wii music with this library yet


----------



## ism (Dec 12, 2021)

re-peat said:


> There's a sort of "intimacy that is allowed to breathe" here. Usually, intimacy in sample libraries is synonymous with a feeling of confinement and smallness. AR2 gives you the exact opposite (if you like that): expansive intimacy. Really nice. And with great musical versatility.




This is an evocative comment. I'd call this an intimacy evoked by spatiality. Not the kind of intimacy of dry, or even some studio sounds where the intimacy arises from the space being entirely filled by the sound, and you feel you're on top of it. But an intimacy that invites you to, somehow, be the same space.

With Spitfire Solo Strings, I feel I can get a related (though very different sounding) kind of intimacy, by adding, for instance 100% close to ~45% tree mic. Which still leaves you in the very large AIR space. So it's not an intimate of smallness, but rather that the intimacy here arises from the spatial embodiment of a musician in a real space, and room in the mix to feel yourself somehow present in that same space with the performer (and the close mic helps regulate this sense of co-existence in space).

Wheres in more stylized mixes of dry or dry-ish libraries (Spitfire Studio Strings, CSS etc), the sound just fills all available space and you're kind of feel on top of the musicians rather than sharing their space. Which can also be a desirable effect, if that's what you're looking for.


The larger point, I think, is that the word "intimacy" is used in different, sometimes completely contradictory ways around here.

And similarly, the word "reverb" actually refers to multiple, distinct perceptual phenomenon of spatiality and echo and size, and so doesn't straightforwardly map to "intimacy" in any one sense.


----------



## Noeticus (Dec 12, 2021)

In case this has not already been posted... here is another one...

AMAZING!!!


----------



## Noeticus (Dec 12, 2021)

Wow, from 2011... (LASS)


----------



## Noeticus (Dec 12, 2021)

Genius!!!


----------



## audio1 (Dec 12, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> In case this has not already been posted... here is another one...
> 
> AMAZING!!!



While I realize there are differences {exclsuding the typical marketing hype} this seriously falls flat in comparison:


----------



## Noeticus (Dec 12, 2021)

And...


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 12, 2021)

audio1 said:


> While I realize there are differences {exclsuding the typical marketing hype} this seriously falls flat in comparison:



Not sure what you’re hearing, but it actually sounds fairly good - different spatialization / EQ applied to the mock-up, but core tone and feel is there.


----------



## Noeticus (Dec 12, 2021)

And...


----------



## audio1 (Dec 12, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Not sure what you’re hearing, but it actually sounds fairly good - different spatialization / EQ applied to the mock-up, but core tone and feel is there.


One clear difference is live players with less mics used, versus samples with who knows what mic combo. I would be curious if AR iconic could dial in the a similar tone close to the original, given the fact they are marketing historic AR sound using the same historic vintage gear, studio and "priceless" mics, it should be possible to come close, but then again as always, YMWV with samples no matter....


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 12, 2021)

audio1 said:


> One clear difference is live players with less mics used, versus samples with who knows what mic combo. I would be curious if AR iconic could dial in the a similar tone close to the original, given the fact they are marketing historic AR sound using the same historic vintage gear, studio and "priceless" mics, it should be possible to come close, but then again as always, YMWV with samples no matter....


I mean...are you really expecting the samples to sound exactly like the live recording 60 years later, with totally different players? Seems like a _very_ unrealistic expectation.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 12, 2021)




----------



## jbuhler (Dec 12, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I mean...are you really expecting the samples to sound exactly like the live recording 60 years later, with totally different players? Seems like a _very_ unrealistic expectation.


He just wanted to get in a dig about the mics.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 12, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> He just wanted to get in a dig about the mics.


The "unnecessary" mic discussion is particularly amusing. I question what sort of live recordings these folks have really taken part in since any audio engineer worth their salt knows how much mic selection and placement make such a _huge_ impact on the final sound that's captured.

As Hans said in a thread a while back...



> I like the sound and different colours you get from different microphones (and AIR has one of the most exquisite and exclusively well-maintained microphone selection in the world). I think each piece of music needs its own subtle Colour of recording technique. Just like you choose the appropriate player for a piece, you need to pick you microphone. It's not "one size fits all" - otherwise Geoff Foster would be happy to just stick with one set of mic's. But each microphone tells a slightly different story...


----------



## MaxOctane (Dec 12, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I mean...are you really expecting the samples to sound exactly like the live recording 60 years later, with totally different players? Seems like a _very_ unrealistic expectation.


Well, a lot of people here are saying "This is it! This is *the* sound of Eleanor Rigby!!! Perfect for Beatlesque pop!" Then you side-by-side them, and... well, no. They're quite different. And at any rate, a staccato Em pattern with solo strings gets you 90% there. 

IMHO, there's a _wee bit_ of a placebo effect happening on this thread, with people buying into all Beatles/AR2 marketing and making a mental association when in reality, this lib is no more Beatlesque than any number of others out there. 

Reminds me of the questions that would pop up when BHCT was first released ("_Is this library only useful for Hitchcockian film scores?_"). Or even recently with Tokyo strings, with so many people saying "_Perfect for Anime + videogame soundtracks!" _Erm... because the players are Japanese??


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 12, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> Well, a lot of people here are saying "This is it! This is *the* sound of Eleanor Rigby!!! Perfect for Beatlesque pop!" Then you side-by-side them, and... well, no. They're quite different. And at any rate, a staccato Em pattern with solo strings gets you 90% there.
> 
> IMHO, there's a _wee bit_ of a placebo effect happening on this thread, with people buying into all Beatles/AR2 marketing. Reminds me of the questions that would pop up when BHCT was first released ("_Is this library only useful for Hitchcockian film scores?_"). Or even recently with Tokyo strings, with so many people saying "_Perfect for Anime + videogame soundtracks!" _Erm... because the players are Japanese??


I think if you listen to them side-by-side, it is pretty clear they are inspired by the Eleanor Rigby sessions. They have that distinct tone / feel to them. So I don't think the marketing is off - plus they _did_ use those session references to record these. You may not hear it though.

In general, I agree with you though - just because a library is recorded in X way doesn't mean it'll exactly match the sound of the reference material nor should it only be used for that way.


----------



## MaxOctane (Dec 12, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I think if you listen to them side-by-side, it is pretty clear they are inspired by the Eleanor Rigby sessions. They have that distinct tone / feel to them. So I don't think the marketing is off - plus they _did_ use those session references to record these. You may not hear it though.


Sure, the inspiration could well be there. And certainly if during the recording session for the staccatissimos, Paul and Christian said "Now we want you to channel Eleanor Rigby here", then that will translate to the recordings. I can hear it somewhat in the walkthroughs and demos, but I just cringe a bit at people saying this lib captures "The Beatles Sound." That sound is partly the signal chain and the instruments and individual notes... but mostly the counterpuntal composition and the emotional performance end-to-end.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 12, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> Sure, the inspiration could well be there. And certainly if during the recording session for the staccatissimos, Paul and Christian said "Now we want you to channel Eleanor Rigby here", then that will translate to the recordings. I can hear it somewhat in the walkthroughs and demos, but I just cringe a bit at people saying this lib captures "The Beatles Sound." That sound is partly the signal chain and the instruments and individual notes... but mostly the counterpuntal composition and the emotional performance end-to-end.


No doubt - but since George Martin didn't leave us a phrase library / MIDI pack of the "most emotional melodies ever!", this at least gets us part of the way there (and the part that I imagine 99% of us will never have access to on our own).


----------



## MaxOctane (Dec 12, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> No doubt - but since George Martin didn't leave us a phrase library / MIDI pack of the "most emotional melodies ever!", this at least gets us part of the way there (and the part that I imagine 99% of us will never have access to on our own).



Midi Chord Pack to the rescue! The latest expansion even included Suspended and 9th chords.









Complete MIDI Chord Pack


Create chord progressions fast with the Complete MIDI Chord Pack. Get 2880 MIDI chord files to drag-n-drop into your DAW. Works for all genres. Instant download.




essentialmidi.com





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MIDI files are compatible with all soft synths and VSTs
Includes Essential Midi's Major Chords & Scales Midi Pack
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Includes Essential Midi's Seventh Chords Midi Pack
Includes Essential Midi's Extended Chords Midi Pack
Includes Essential Midi's Suspended Chords Midi
Contains 2668 individual MIDI chord files, organized and numbered in each Key Folder


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 12, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> Midi Chord Pack to the rescue! The latest expansion even included Suspended and 9th chords.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes! Now I can be the next Beatles. Or John Williams! They can't be using more chords than that!!!!


----------



## hauspe (Dec 12, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Which aspect do you think could be changed, to make it closer to reality? I'm trying to understand if there's a programming or writing aspect I could change, to make it more convincing.


it's not your fault, the strings sound too synthetic, like almost all libraries for solo strings (of course your version still has room for improvement to be honest 🙂). Imitating a string instrument is incredibly demanding, until today hardly anyone of the big library players has managed to imitate solo strings _perfectly_. The Beatles demo does not convince me, and as we might see other (older) libraries are very close to Abbey Road Two especially when it comes to the Beatles sound.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 12, 2021)

Fortunately for us, They gave us a little gift on Anthology 2


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 12, 2021)

hauspe said:


> it's not your fault, the strings sound too synthetic, like almost all libraries for solo strings (of course your version still has room for improvement to be honest 🙂). Imitating a string instrument is incredibly demanding, until today hardly anyone of the big library players has managed to imitate solo strings _perfectly_. The Beatles demo does not convince me, and as we might see other (older) libraries are very close to Abbey Road Two especially when it comes to the Beatles sound.


Are you comparing the library to a real string recording or are you comparing it to the other options in the sample universe? We are after all focused on working with _virtual_ instruments here. 

Just curious - you mentioned you are a string player but how much experience do you have programming sample libraries? One thing to claim somebody needs improvement and another to be able to demonstrate a better version.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 12, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes! Now I can be the next Beatles. Or John Williams! They can't be using more chords than that!!!!


I'm on board!


----------



## audio1 (Dec 12, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I mean...are you really expecting the samples to sound exactly like the live recording 60 years later, with totally different players? Seems like a _very_ unrealistic expectation.



Marketing quotes from Spitfire used to set expectations: 

"A history like no other - Abbey Road Two: Iconic Strings represents something truly unique - a landmark, one-off sample library consisting of a signature string sound never before available. Captured at Abbey Road’s Studio Two, the most famous recording venue in the world, Iconic Strings is steeped in a rich musical history and this very special string sound is just waiting to become part of your compositions."

"Beatles"

"The Vintage mixes capture what many music lovers think of as Studio Two, recorded using the vintage REDD desk, parallel compression from the RS124 and all passed through the J37 tape machine. This chain was influenced by the iconic Studio Two recordings using this exact one-of-a-kind equipment."

"The unique sonic fingerprint of Studio Two simply cannot be replicated elsewhere due to its combination of controlled acoustics and one-of-a-kind equipment, refined over 90 years of innovation. From the vintage J37 tape machine to the dizzying array of microphones, this is the first time the sought-after signal path has been made available in a virtual string instrument."


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## audio1 (Dec 12, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> He just wanted to get in a dig about the mics.


From the photo it looks like its around 20 mics.


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## audio1 (Dec 12, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> The "unnecessary" mic discussion is particularly amusing. I question what sort of live recordings these folks have really taken part in since any audio engineer worth their salt knows how much mic selection and placement make such a _huge_ impact on the final sound that's captured.





MaxOctane said:


> Well, a lot of people here are saying "This is it! This is *the* sound of Eleanor Rigby!!! Perfect for Beatlesque pop!" Then you side-by-side them, and... well, no. They're quite different. And at any rate, a staccato Em pattern with solo strings gets you 90% there.
> 
> IMHO, there's a _wee bit_ of a placebo effect happening on this thread, with people buying into all Beatles/AR2 marketing and making a mental association when in reality, this lib is no more Beatlesque than any number of others out there.
> 
> Reminds me of the questions that would pop up when BHCT was first released ("_Is this library only useful for Hitchcockian film scores?_"). Or even recently with Tokyo strings, with so many people saying "_Perfect for Anime + videogame soundtracks!" _Erm... because the players are Japanese??


Perfectly stated.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 12, 2021)

audio1 said:


> Marketing quotes from Spitfire used to set expectations:
> 
> "A history like no other - Abbey Road Two: Iconic Strings represents something truly unique - a landmark, one-off sample library consisting of a signature string sound never before available. Captured at Abbey Road’s Studio Two, the most famous recording venue in the world, Iconic Strings is steeped in a rich musical history and this very special string sound is just waiting to become part of your compositions."
> 
> ...


Do you have a point? None of these are false statements. Don’t see it saying “time machine to the 1960s” anywhere though.


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## Calagan (Dec 12, 2021)

I don't get where the conversation is heading. 
Who can show me a solo string library that is able to replicate "any" recording, like a bunch of excellent musicians could do ? 
Actually, even excellent musicians with a huge choice of gear and rooms to record with/in (I don't even speak of the instruments) would have trouble replicating another chamber strings performance (specially recorded 60 years ago). They could but it would be a challenge.
And I think sample libraries are still far from being able to replace a real musician (specially solo ones, that expose a solo part). They are just a cheaper/easier way to compose and demo a musical idea (or to deliver when the idea is not looking like a Beethoven quartet but more like some generic film music).

I'm not a seasoned user of sample libraries, I'm searching for a solo strings library since weeks (better that what I already own, i.e. the Embertone Intimate String serie), and so far I didn't listen ANY that was perfectly natural and able to mock up true players playing a complex performance. And I don't even speak about what makes the character of a performance, I mean what makes the difference between Glenn Gould playing Bach (this is art) and a decent pianist playing the same piece without false notes (this is craft). 
Coming back to strings libraries, each one I listened had his strength and weakness, but none was sounding like 100% real to me (when listening to demos or users mockups on youtube). Please let me know if I'm wrong, so I can buy the library immediatly... By the way, I speak only about solo libraries, because the orchestral/symphonic stuff (or even the chamber orchestra) is much easier to mockup in my opinion.

I think everybody would agree that any library must be played as an instrument, with its good and bad points, what it can do and what it can't. Nobody improvises bebop with an oboe because double reeds don't have the same articulation ease as a saxophone, reason why Charlie Parker was a saxophonist and not an oboist.
So it doesn't make any sense to discuss "is it possible to replicate perfectly Eleanor Rigby with this library". Because no, you can't. What would have meaning is to discuss how this library compares with similar solo strings libraries, what you can and can't do with this library (compared to others), what you shouldn't do because it sounds truly fake, etc. etc.
I'm interested in AR2 because I like the sound and dryness, I can hear the flaws (phasing, strange violin sound...) but it still seems to be in the top quality segment. I would be much more curious to hear what people that own and use other solo strings libraries and bought this one could say about how AR2 compares and if it delivers the "pop/rock/intimate-but-powerful" sound it is supposed to deliver.


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## rocking.xmas.man (Dec 12, 2021)

audio1 said:


> From the photo it looks like its around 20 mics.


Which I think is absolutely fine - of course if you were running a recording session you could do with less. But for instance if you’re mixing in surround that might come in handy or what’s more obvious - if you’re running a session you already know what to expect and you’ve got a clear vision of how the sound should be. With a sample library that’s something different, more different perspectives usually are a nice way to help shape the character to suit the surrounding recordings. There were many libraries in which I thought the mic selection was way less useful. In this one they (judging from the walkthroughs) seem to be really different from each other


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## AndyP (Dec 12, 2021)

As long as sample libraries work statically with articulations, it will always sound static. The fewer musicians, the more static.
Then, perfectly quantized and it sounds like it sounds, static and without life.

In the forum it was already often noted by some users that to create a higher degree of realism, there would have to be dozens of roundrobins and dynamic layers per articulation. And then also for sustains or the sustain and release phase of a sample.
Especially short notes are a horror with 3-n articulations that are used statically per note.

Technically, most sample libraries have been working the same way for years, some are sampled deeper, some use tricks to hide the static behavior.

For years I've been trying to halfway reproduce or compose Philip Glass' Mishima theme with sample libraries, and I still don't think it's even halfway convincingly doable today. It sounds almost better on the piano than with strings.

The bigger the setup, the more players play together at the same time, the better sample libraries work. You can simply conceal more, so that the skill level of the operator is less noticeable.

Legato aside (which I now find reasonably reproducible, also here I would like to have much more roundrobins), the short notes, portamento and vibrato control bother me with most libraries. And especially with solo strings. I think this is still a technical problem due to the limitations of the tools we use. You can improve the results with a lot of effort, but it takes a lot of time and actually you want to compose.

Strings are much harder to reproduce than other instruments, in my opinion.


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## alcorey (Dec 13, 2021)

AndyP said:


> As long as sample libraries work statically with articulations, it will always sound static. The fewer musicians, the more static.
> Then, perfectly quantized and it sounds like it sounds, static and without life.
> 
> In the forum it was already often noted by some users that to create a higher degree of realism, there would have to be dozens of roundrobins and dynamic layers per articulation. And then also for sustains or the sustain and release phase of a sample.
> ...


Strings, Saxes and Harps, oh my......Strings, Saxes and Harps. oh my.............we're off to see the wizard......................................


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## wunderflo (Dec 13, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I have done a touch of Chris Hein Cello comparison so far ... but I only recently bought the Cello EX so I can only go so far in compare / contrast land across the instruments. what I am learning about the Chris Hein is the "body" IR is very important for the sound, plus which cello you pick (of the four).


just played around with the CH a bit (but I don't have AR2IS, so it's hard to compare). I'd assume that of all the solo string libraries CHSS can get closest to that AR2IS sound. It definitely can do those gritty, bitey, intimate (relatively dry, close-mic-ed) rock & pop strings that go to 11 with tons of shorts (that even offer more flexibility, as you can combine them with legato). Plus it even contains flautando!

I'd suggest to try the Modern Cello with "body 09 (0.6s)" & "clear small ambience". Then maybe add a little bit of hall reverb with the lows and highs rolled off going into it (since that's the Abbey Road reverb trick  ) and maybe a bit of "vintage" flavor processing. What do you think?

However, I'd also assume that AR2IS might be easier to handle and offer more instant gratification... ? I'm definitely still intrigued by it...

PS: To understand the benefit (or philosophy) of having a huge selection of different mics and mic positions, I'd recommend to get familiar with the recording & mixing work of Al Schmitt. Not saying that there weren't totally legitimate alternative approaches (i.e. CHSS), but when the main selling point of a library is the room where it was recorded, it's only logical to offer a ton of mic signals that capture this room from different perspectives.


----------



## johnplush (Dec 13, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Here's some initial playing around ...
> 
> All Excerpts Use Performance Legato
> 
> ...



I understood from the Spitfire walkthrough that there are no portamento legato transitions available in the Core version, yet I hear some portamento in your 'trying to play it' passage, albeit between only a semitone. Do you get that effect over a wider interval? (I assume this is all played in the Core version of AR2?) Thanks!


----------



## holywilly (Dec 13, 2021)

The legato transitions on larger interval are a bit portamento.


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## zeng (Dec 13, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> It's not 150 mics, it's 8 mics and 4 mixes. And it's basically two sets of mics. If you don't like mic options, then Spitfire is probably not the company you should be buying sample libraries from.
> 
> 
> They are unneeded by you, but why should your needs determine what other folks need? Again, I'm back at you should be buying from another company because your needs are not well matched to what Spitfire sells.


I love Orchestral Tools' option here. In Sine Player you can download which mic you need/want and I think Spitfire should offer something like in their own player...


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## prodigalson (Dec 13, 2021)

audio1 said:


> From the photo it looks like its around 20 mics.


I really think you misunderstand the purpose of the multiple mics as Spitfire Audio intend them and most users use them. No, you don’t see 20 mics on a real session because the engineer and producer are already going in with an idea of what sound they want and don’t expect to want to change it after they record. So they’ll set up only the mics they need for that sound, be it close, distant, gritty, smooth, wide, narrow etc. 

Spitfire want to give you the option of all those sounds too because you’re not just going to use this on one project and so, yeah, they had to set up all the mics needed at once for a variety of sonic options which is more than a real session because they don’t intend for you to use all at once to create your sound.


----------



## Ruffian Price (Dec 13, 2021)

johnplush said:


> I understood from the Spitfire walkthrough that there are no portamento legato transitions available in the Core version, yet I hear some portamento in your 'trying to play it' passage, albeit between only a semitone. Do you get that effect over a wider interval? (I assume this is all played in the Core version of AR2?) Thanks!


You get a _fast run_ legato when playing intervals up to a minor third below 350 ms from the last note and a _slurred_ legato in other cases. As far as I can tell fast run includes bow change and fingered and slurred is fingered or a short portamento depending on the interval, didn't check the cutoff there as they're timed equally so that's good enough for me


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## audio1 (Dec 13, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> I really think you misunderstand the purpose of the multiple mics as Spitfire Audio intend them and most users use them.


Or, I think 20 mics offer redundancy.


prodigalson said:


> No, you don’t see 20 mics on a real session because the engineer and producer are already going in with an idea of what sound they want and don’t expect to want to change it after they record. So they’ll set up only the mics they need for that sound, be it close, distant, gritty, smooth, wide, narrow etc.


Spitfire is offering a "signature string sound never before available" and "steeped in a rich musical history", then they note the "Beatles". And, the Beatles major song associated with a string quintet recorded at AR is Elenor Rigby.

Spitfire went in with a strong idea of what sound they wanted to achieve. Based on one AR iconic mock of Elenor Rigby versus the original, YMWV.

Now, what you're suggesting is the all those mic "options" should be able to bring you very close to the original. After all, this is what Spitfire set out to do as their marketing clearly explains. The product should be able to live up to the marketing hype.

None of this means the product sucks, of course it doesn't, but it does fail to meet the hype.

Again, would love to hear Elenor Rigby using all the mics to match something close to the original. Honestly, I'm very surprised Spitfire didn't offer that as a demo/example, because its so obvious.


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## StillLife (Dec 13, 2021)

Yes, they mention The Beatles. They also mention Pink Floyd, Frank Ocean, Radiohead and Adele. As in, this sound can be used in a variety of styles. 
Personally, if I want to listen to Elenor Rigby, I open Spotify. If I want to make some music of my own, I open my daw and use whatever sounds I have. More mics, more sounds.


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## Jdiggity1 (Dec 13, 2021)

audio1 said:


> Spitfire is offering a "signature string sound never before available" and "steeped in a rich musical history", then they note the "Beatles". And, the Beatles major song associated with a string quintet recorded at AR is Elenor Rigby.
> 
> Spitfire went in with a strong idea of what sound they wanted to achieve. Based on one AR iconic mock of Elenor Rigby versus the original, YMWV.













Personally, I didn't get the impression this was an Eleanor Rigby sample library from their marketing.



audio1 said:


> The product should be able to live up to the marketing hype.
> 
> None of this means the product sucks, of course it doesn't, but it does fail to meet the hype


A photo of a staircase?
Maybe I wasn't looking in the right place but this felt like a relatively low-hype release for them.


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## styledelk (Dec 13, 2021)

I see that stuff and just see “stuff that was recorded there.”

The only thing I take issue with on their marketing is the mention of some Oasis song no one cares about in relation to portamento.


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 13, 2021)

audio1 said:


> Spitfire went in with a strong idea of what sound they wanted to achieve. Based on one AR iconic mock of Elenor Rigby versus the original, YMWV.
> 
> Now, what you're suggesting is the all those mic "options" should be able to bring you very close to the original. After all, this is what Spitfire set out to do as their marketing clearly explains. The product should be able to live up to the marketing hype.


Again, I think you misunderstand. Their goal isn't to provide 8 mics to achieve one specific sound. My understanding from watching the videos and reading the website is that the "Vintage Mix" is intended to get you close to the Eleanor Rigby sound...a very specific sound...that ONE mix aims to emulate. You might believe that it fails there and thats fine but even if it NAILED the ER sound but offered no other options I'd think the library was pretty limited and wouldn't be that interested.

...Thats why they provide the OTHER mics, to offer OTHER options, not just so you can use 8 mic signals to achieve one specific, dated sound. 

And if your main criticism is that the library doesn't live up to every word of Spitfire's hype..well, then it would seem you're new to Spitfire product releases!! I think most people who are familiar with them understand that the ad copy is interesting and characterful but nothing more than marketing hyperbole.


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## Evans (Dec 13, 2021)

I feel like I need to start a new advocacy-focused not-for-profit organization: Mics Matter.


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## Michel Simons (Dec 13, 2021)

styledelk said:


> I see that stuff and just see “stuff that was recorded there.”
> 
> The only thing I take issue with on their marketing is the mention of some Oasis song no one cares about in relation to portamento.


When it comes to Oasis no one should care in relation to anything really.


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## Soundbed (Dec 13, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> Wow, from 2011... (LASS)



LASS sounds quite good. Odd reverb / room happening but the strings sound pretty good. Those shorts are why I love LASS. And the longs sound good also.


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## Noeticus (Dec 13, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> LASS sounds quite good. Odd reverb / room happening but the strings sound pretty good. Those shorts are why I love LASS. And the longs sound good also.


Yes, indeed.


----------



## Soundbed (Dec 13, 2021)

This piece makes me really want the ports of the Pro version ... sounds like they could be the best disco strings ever.


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 13, 2021)

audio1 said:


> None of this means the product sucks, of course it doesn't, but it does fail to meet the hype.


You must be new to Spitfire marketing. They could be rolling out samples of monkey turds being flung against the glass in a zoo and would hype it up to be the most amazing thing since sliced bananas. They would also start 3 threads for its rollout - one that a teaser is coming, a teaser and the actual product.


----------



## JohnG (Dec 13, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> you don’t see 20 mics on a real session because the engineer and producer are already going in with an idea of what sound they want and don’t expect to want to change it after they record.


A number of people have asserted this same position: that one doesn't really use as many as 20 mics 

But sometimes they do, sometimes a lot more. 

Not to pick on you @prodigalson in particular, because several people have made that point, but recording at Abbey Road 1 our engineer used 79 or 80 mics. Granted, that was for full orchestra, but when you have the kind of mic collection available at AIR or Abbey Road, and you want maximum flexibility, why not? A 1TB SSD is now less than $120 on NewEgg, so storage has plummeted in cost.

Really, arguing that the library is 'too big' or something. That's the least of our problems as composers.


----------



## JohnG (Dec 13, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> LASS sounds quite good.


LASS is one of the most overlooked libraries. It's excellent in many ways and has tremendous flexibility.


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## Noeticus (Dec 13, 2021)

JohnG said:


> LASS is one of the most overlooked libraries. It's excellent in many ways and has tremendous flexibility.


Yes, and LASS 3 is a joy!


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## madfloyd (Dec 13, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> This piece makes me really want the ports of the Pro version ... sounds like they could be the best disco strings ever.



'ports' ?


----------



## Soundbed (Dec 13, 2021)

johnplush said:


> I understood from the Spitfire walkthrough that there are no portamento legato transitions available in the Core version, yet I hear some portamento in your 'trying to play it' passage, albeit between only a semitone. Do you get that effect over a wider interval? (I assume this is all played in the Core version of AR2?) Thanks!





holywilly said:


> The legato transitions on larger interval are a bit portamento.





Ruffian Price said:


> You get a _fast run_ legato when playing intervals up to a minor third below 350 ms from the last note and a _slurred_ legato in other cases. As far as I can tell fast run includes bow change and fingered and slurred is fingered or a short portamento depending on the interval, didn't check the cutoff there as they're timed equally so that's good enough for me


@johnplush 

Yes, Core has Performance Legato and Slurred Legato, not Portamento. And the Performance Legato seems to incorporate "slurred" legato transitions as described above. It sounds a little port as @holywilly mentioned but it's not a bit obvious port sound (or gliss, depending on how you use the terminology, I guess?). It's simply a bit of a slurred transition or slide, some of the time. The port in the Pro version is very obvious and pronounced based on the demos I've heard (I don't have it yet, but I might upgrade to it).

I doubt this answers all your questions. (Not only because the transitions were basically all a similar speed....) But here is a quick demo of the cello Performance Legato at 3 different (unchanging) dynamic levels, up the range, for intervals between half step and minor third:


----------



## StillLife (Dec 13, 2021)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Personally, I didn't get the impression this was an Eleanor Rigby sample library from their marketing.
> 
> 
> A photo of a staircase?
> Maybe I wasn't looking in the right place but this felt like a relatively low-hype release for them.


Exactly


----------



## Soundbed (Dec 13, 2021)

madfloyd said:


> 'ports' ?


portamento


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## Trevor Meier (Dec 13, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I doubt this answers all your questions. (Not only because the transitions were basically all a similar speed....) But here is a quick demo of the cello Performance Legato at 3 different (unchanging) dynamic levels, up the range, for intervals between half step and minor third:



@Soundbed I gotta say... your videos are some of the most helpful when a library comes out. I feel like I get to go along on your discovery as it happens, looking for the strengths and weaknesses. I much prefer it to the many reviews that tend to be walkthroughs/explanations with very little focus on weaknesses. Big kudos, and a big thank you.


----------



## styledelk (Dec 13, 2021)

I call them porties or sometimes sports. 'course when I talk about sports with anyone else, they get confused. And then there's the famous album recorded in AR2 that the Spitfire Library's legatos is made to recreate. By that I am talking about Huey Lewis and the News' 1983 classic, Sports, short for Sportamento. Why are we not talking about how to recreate That Sound with the vintage mixes that were clearly made to emulate it?


----------



## Soundbed (Dec 13, 2021)

styledelk said:


> I call them porties or sometimes sports. 'course when I talk about sports with anyone else, they get confused. And then there's the famous album recorded in AR2 that the Spitfire Library's legatos is made to recreate. By that I am talking about Huey Lewis and the News' 1983 classic, Sports, short for Sportamento. Why are we not talking about how to recreate That Sound with the vintage mixes that were clearly made to emulate it?


don't need money, don't take fame
Don't need no credit card to ride this train
It's strong and it's sudden and it's cruel sometimes
But it might just save your life
That's the power of Ports


----------



## Soundbed (Dec 13, 2021)

Trevor Meier said:


> @Soundbed I gotta say... your videos are some of the most helpful when a library comes out. I feel like I get to go along on your discovery as it happens, looking for the strengths and weaknesses. I much prefer it to the many reviews that tend to be walkthroughs/explanations with very little focus on weaknesses. Big kudos, and a big thank you.


If you have any requests, let me know. I just bought the Pro version so I can start trying the Douro Valley Ports as well.


----------



## Trevor Meier (Dec 13, 2021)

When SMS&ES v2 arrives (I should have it in the next few days) I'd be very interested in some comparisons. As it is I love the AR2 tone, but am hesitating because of how useful MSS is for me.


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## Flyo (Dec 13, 2021)

Fock this pop video put it on a hard situation. I need some soloist to add more detailed sound for BBC or…. also Sonokinetik with the great divisi segment function. One is more expensive than the other. I leave behind now
my wish long time waited update to Opus having Diamond HW already, based on price and all these new releases. Main factor with AR2 it’s Core legato portamento behavior besides the very welcome multiples mics position on Pro. Yeah I like multi mics all over the place to dial in the sound you want.


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## Soundbed (Dec 13, 2021)

Trevor Meier said:


> When SMS&ES v2 arrives (I should have it in the next few days) I'd be very interested in some comparisons. As it is I love the AR2 tone, but am hesitating because of how useful MSS is for me.


I only have Elite and not the Pro Elite so I won't have those close mics in Elite fwiw...


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## ag75 (Dec 13, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> LASS sounds quite good. Odd reverb / room happening but the strings sound pretty good. Those shorts are why I love LASS. And the longs sound good also.



LASS was the first library I thought of for this particular sound. Still holds up!


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## Soundbed (Dec 13, 2021)

wunderflo said:


> just played around with the CH a bit (but I don't have AR2IS, so it's hard to compare). I'd assume that of all the solo string libraries CHSS can get closest to that AR2IS sound. It definitely can do those gritty, bitey, intimate (relatively dry, close-mic-ed) rock & pop strings that go to 11 with tons of shorts (that even offer more flexibility, as you can combine them with legato). Plus it even contains flautando!
> 
> I'd suggest to try the Modern Cello with "body 09 (0.6s)" & "clear small ambience". Then maybe add a little bit of hall reverb with the lows and highs rolled off going into it (since that's the Abbey Road reverb trick  ) and maybe a bit of "vintage" flavor processing. What do you think?
> 
> However, I'd also assume that AR2IS might be easier to handle and offer more instant gratification... ? I'm definitely still intrigued by it...


Thanks for this! I don't have time to play with them back to back right now (other deadlines looming) but I will try to do some comparisons this week. Replying in case someone else has both ...?

_try the Modern Cello with "body 09 (0.6s)" & "clear small ambience". Then maybe add a little bit of hall reverb with the lows and highs rolled off going into it (since that's the Abbey Road reverb trick  ) and maybe a bit of "vintage" flavor processing._


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## ag75 (Dec 13, 2021)

styledelk said:


> I call them porties or sometimes sports. 'course when I talk about sports with anyone else, they get confused. And then there's the famous album recorded in AR2 that the Spitfire Library's legatos is made to recreate. By that I am talking about Huey Lewis and the News' 1983 classic, Sports, short for Sportamento. Why are we not talking about how to recreate That Sound with the vintage mixes that were clearly made to emulate it?


That is one of my favorite albums.


Soundbed said:


> don't need money, don't take fame
> Don't need no credit card to ride this train
> It's strong and it's sudden and it's cruel sometimes
> But it might just save your life
> That's the power of Ports


Great now I can’t get that song out of my head. One of my favorite albums.


----------



## MaxOctane (Dec 13, 2021)

ag75 said:


> That is one of my favorite albums.
> 
> Great now I can’t get that song out of my head. One of my favorite albums.







Mine too!


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## Soundbed (Dec 13, 2021)

ag75 said:


> Great now I can’t get that song out of my head.


Better that than what I’ve had in my head all weekend … “aaaaaaaaah look at all the lonely people” 🥴


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## prodigalson (Dec 13, 2021)

JohnG said:


> A number of people have asserted this same position: that one doesn't really use as many as 20 mics
> 
> But sometimes they do, sometimes a lot more.
> 
> ...


I find it really strange that you read what is the last of several posts clearly defending the use of multiple mics in a recording session (arguing in FAVOR of their presence in the library!) and somehow took away from that that I was somehow taking the position I was clearly arguing against! lol. You must just have read only that sentence and started typing.

That being said, I could have been clearer that I was speaking in context of this particular library and while yes, you may often have dozens of mics at a full orchestra session, I've been at quite a few string quartet dates for pop records and I've never seen 20 mics set up. Thats all I was saying by that one particular comment that was in fact tangential to the actual point I was making. 

For full clarity, the actual point I was making was that multiple mic options are valuable when it's appropriate and I do believe it's appropriate here


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## SupremeFist (Dec 13, 2021)

I feel like the "synthy" aspect to the sound which some others (and I) are hearing is simply a consequence, shared with many other sample libraries, of mixing samples that have unnaturally perfect intonation. As everyone knows, real string players generally have terrible intonation.


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## G_Erland (Dec 13, 2021)

Impressive this, I thought…


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## zeng (Dec 13, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> This piece makes me really want the ports of the Pro version ... sounds like they could be the best disco strings ever.



Why this sounds very midi to me


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## Noeticus (Dec 13, 2021)

zeng said:


> Why this sounds very midi to me


The midi is just in your mind (perhaps), as it sounds fine to me.


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## audio1 (Dec 13, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> The midi is just in your mind (perhaps), as it sounds fine to me.


"Midi" has always been very easy to hear.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 13, 2021)




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## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 14, 2021)

This was a fun one


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## dzilizzi (Dec 14, 2021)

G_Erland said:


> Impressive this, I thought…



This doesn't have the buzzy sound on the longs and sounds pretty good to me. I was hoping it was just the playing that caused that, though it could be the mic mix. In which case, having the options with the pro version seems like a necessity to get the better sound.


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## G_Erland (Dec 14, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> This doesn't have the buzzy sound on the longs and sounds pretty good to me. I was hoping it was just the playing that caused that, though it could be the mic mix. In which case, having the options with the pro version seems like a necessity to get the better sound.


Made me kind of curious if i can pull something like that off with the solo stuff i already have…but I have to say that composition seems to indicate a pretty solid versatility, and yes, i think the signals will be important for sonic flexibility, more so than what you can achieve by adding reverb to the close mics.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 14, 2021)

G_Erland said:


> Made me kind of curious if i can pull something like that off with the solo stuff i already have…but I have to say that composition seems to indicate a pretty solid versatility, and yes, i think the signals will be important for sonic flexibility, more so than what you can achieve by adding reverb to the close mics.


Well, part of me thinks, why buy for the room when you only use close mics. The whole point of it is to use some room mics to get the sound.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 14, 2021)




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## molemac (Dec 14, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> LASS sounds quite good. Odd reverb / room happening but the strings sound pretty good. Those shorts are why I love LASS. And the longs sound good also.


I agree listening on my phone I prefer the Lass version to the Spitfire. It has the agression without the harshness of Ar2 which is odd as people normally complain Lass is too harsh .


----------



## G_Erland (Dec 14, 2021)

G_Erland said:


> Made me kind of curious if i can pull something like that off with the solo stuff i already have…but I have to say that composition seems to indicate a pretty solid versatility, and yes, i think the signals will be important for sonic flexibility, more so than what you can achieve by adding reverb to the close mics.


Sorry if i took off into the obvious, there…


----------



## audio1 (Dec 14, 2021)

molemac said:


> I agree listening on my phone I prefer the Lass version to the Spitfire. It has the agression without the harshness of Ar2 which is odd as people normally complain Lass is too harsh .


It's interesting, this library is presented as "iconic strings" but is really a string quartet plus 1, but with no string quartet demos at all, including the iconic string quartet referenced in the marketing splash page. Bow what would have made this a really cool product, is if they ditched all the mic fluff, got a great sound, and then provided a 2nd mult/doubled version of all articulations and patches to help create a cool ensemble. Amazing, this has been done in some gtr libraries, but no string/orch libraries. And, when you consider live mult of smaller instrument sections was done on so many iconic recordings {was the norm for many many years} it makes you wonder if thier just reinventing the wheel but hyping it differently. I do know, if you dbled the AR2 players naturally, it would help smooth out the inconststecies and wonky tone - especially on the brittle shorts. Man, instead of a big section, I would kill for a small ensemble with dbl patches included. Would help solve a lot of sonic problems in many libraries because you could control the density of the room between "pass 1 and 2". All the time and effort going into programming 50 mics versus a dew...and the the dbl. Honestly, I'm confused about what is so "iconic" with this product.


----------



## Evans (Dec 14, 2021)

Okay, thanks!


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Dec 14, 2021)

audio1 said:


> It's interesting, this library is presented as "iconic strings" but is really a string quartet plus 1, but with no string quartet demos at all, including the iconic string quartet referenced in the marketing splash page. Bow what would have made this a really cool product, is if they ditched all the mic fluff, got a great sound, and then provided a 2nd mult/doubled version of all articulations and patches to help create a cool ensemble. Amazing, this has been done in some gtr libraries, but no string/orch libraries. And, when you consider live mult of smaller instrument sections was done on so many iconic recordings {was the norm for many many years} it makes you wonder if thier just reinventing the wheel but hyping it differently. I do know, if you dbled the AR2 players naturally, it would help smooth out the inconststecies and wonky tone - especially on the brittle shorts. Man, instead of a big section, I would kill for a small ensemble with dbl patches included. Would help solve a lot of sonic problems in many libraries because you could control the density of the room between "pass 1 and 2". All the time and effort going into programming 50 mics versus a dew...and the the dbl. Honestly, I'm confused about what is so "iconic" with this product.


It's ok if a product doesn't "click" with you. For others, it's exactly what they want.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 14, 2021)

How does this compare with https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/sacconi-strings-quartet/


----------



## moon (Dec 14, 2021)

audio1 said:


> It's interesting, this library is presented as "iconic strings" but is really a string quartet plus 1, but with no string quartet demos at all, including the iconic string quartet referenced in the marketing splash page. Bow what would have made this a really cool product, is if they ditched all the mic fluff, got a great sound, and then provided a 2nd mult/doubled version of all articulations and patches to help create a cool ensemble. Amazing, this has been done in some gtr libraries, but no string/orch libraries. And, when you consider live mult of smaller instrument sections was done on so many iconic recordings {was the norm for many many years} it makes you wonder if thier just reinventing the wheel but hyping it differently. I do know, if you dbled the AR2 players naturally, it would help smooth out the inconststecies and wonky tone - especially on the brittle shorts. Man, instead of a big section, I would kill for a small ensemble with dbl patches included. Would help solve a lot of sonic problems in many libraries because you could control the density of the room between "pass 1 and 2". All the time and effort going into programming 50 mics versus a dew...and the the dbl. Honestly, I'm confused about what is so "iconic" with this product.


There are layering options available within the library using RRs. The Vintage 2 mic also automatically doubles.


----------



## audio1 (Dec 14, 2021)

easyrider said:


> How does this compare with https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/sacconi-strings-quartet/


IMHO, Sacconi and Berlin 1st chairs have way more inspiration to offer. They both have a clear "presence" within the recorded space, but you can also sense the depth. Also, both have wonderful shorts that don't buzz saw. My thought is, with both of these libraries they took the approach of "player" versus small ensemble, which allowed the individual players personalities and technique to live. Very natural balance. Not so much with AR2.
​


----------



## audio1 (Dec 14, 2021)

moon said:


> There are layering options available within the library using RRs. The Vintage 2 mic also automatically doubles.


My guess is - RRS would not be the same as a true dbl. It's probably random and would introduce phasing when the same notes hit randomly. 

Also, Are you sure the Vintage 2 mic automatically doubles? That would mean they rerecorded all articulations twice...and i have not seen that mentioned.


----------



## moon (Dec 14, 2021)

audio1 said:


> My guess is - RRS would not be the same as a true dbl. It's probably random and would introduce phasing when the same notes hit randomly.
> 
> Also, Are you sure the Vintage 2 mic automatically doubles? That would mean they rerecorded all articulations twice...and i have not seen that mentioned.


From the manual:

LAYER X2: Thicken the sound by layering round robins on top of one another. This option will play round robins 1/2 followed by 3/4, effectively halving the number of round robins

LAYER X2 (NO SKIP): Same as above but this time you will be playing 1/2 followed by 2/3 and so on, meaning that you will not halve the number of round robins available

LAYER +2: This option will play the round robins from the tone above the key played but transposed down so that it plays at the right pitch

LAYER -2: This option will play the round robins from the tone BELOW the key played but transposed UP so that it plays at the right pitch.

And in the mic section:

VINTAGE MIX 2
An alternative to Vintage Mix 1, with added Automatic Double Tracking for a distinctly Beatles / Walrus effect


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 14, 2021)

audio1 said:


> IMHO, Sacconi and Berlin 1st chairs have way more inspiration to offer. They both have a clear "presence" within the recorded space, but you can also sense the depth. Also, both have wonderful shorts that don't buzz saw. My thought is, with both of these libraries they took the approach of "player" versus small ensemble, which allowed the individual players personalities and technique to live. Very natural balance. Not so much with AR2.
> ​


Do you own and have you actually used any of these libraries? Im not sure where you get this idea that somehow Sacconi and BS 1st chairs have this individual player personality that AR2 doesn't have. IMO, its the absolute opposite. Sacconi is a great library, up until now my favorite all in one string quartet but its much tamer in character than AR2 and very refined between players. BS 1st chairs have a generally good tone but are a nightmare to use. I bought them for a project and ditched them quickly to go back to Sacconi. The AR2 legatos are a big step up.


audio1 said:


> Amazing, this has been done in some gtr libraries, but no string/orch libraries.


Session Strings Pro does this, also Spitfire's Albion NEO. Also AR2 is exactly this when the "multi-voice" is switched on in the ensemble patch.


----------



## MelodicAdagio (Dec 14, 2021)

Calagan said:


> At first listen, I was amazed by this release because I liked very much the general tone and the idea of recreating the Abbey Road vintage sound (Eleanor Rigby and so on).
> Actually I still think it sounds great and it's a success regarding the vintage idea (even if yes, the violin is a bit harsh, and sometimes I've got impression it's a bit false too).


I'm a huge Beatles fan and really liked the idea of trying my hand at some George Martin style arrangements. But I'm not going to go for the pro version (too big in terms of disk space) and the core version omits portamento, which makes this a no buy for me.


----------



## audio1 (Dec 14, 2021)

moon said:


> From the manual:
> 
> LAYER X2: Thicken the sound by layering round robins on top of one another. This option will play round robins 1/2 followed by 3/4, effectively halving the number of round robins
> 
> ...





moon said:


> From the manual:
> 
> LAYER X2: Thicken the sound by layering round robins on top of one another. This option will play round robins 1/2 followed by 3/4, effectively halving the number of round robins
> 
> ...


Layers not the same as natural dbl tracking.

Automatic Double Tracking {ADT} is an effect....which I love...but not the same as natural dbl tracking.









Reel ADT – Artificial Double Tracking Plugin | Waves


The first plugin to successfully model Abbey Road Studios’ signature automatic double tracking effect, created to meet the recording needs of the Beatles.




www.waves.com


----------



## audio1 (Dec 14, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> Do you own and have you actually used any of these libraries? Im not sure where you get this idea that somehow Sacconi and BS 1st chairs have this individual player personality that AR2 doesn't have. IMO, its the absolute opposite. Sacconi is a great library, up until now my favorite all in one string quartet but its much tamer in character than AR2 and very refined between players. BS 1st chairs have a generally good tone but are a nightmare to use. I bought them for a project and ditched them quickly to go back to Sacconi. The AR2 legatos are a big step up.



Didn't you had to own Sacconi or first chair to comment on AR2. Please except my apology.


prodigalson said:


> Session Strings Pro does this, also Spitfire's Albion NEO. Also AR2 is exactly this when the "multi-voice" is switched on in the ensemble patch.


Session strings are great for alot of purposes. Yes, can get thick sounding but unsure if its a natural dbl versus built in fx. AR2 uses ADT. Not the same thing as record section twice.

Honestly guys, seems you just want people to only agree with what you think. Sorry for being indifferent and offering some thoughts that don't jive with the rest.


----------



## Noeticus (Dec 14, 2021)

audio1 said:


> Layers not the same as natural dbl tracking.
> 
> Automatic Double Tracking {ADT} is an effect....which I love...but not the same as natural dbl tracking.
> 
> ...


Just purchased this awesome ADT plugin moments ago. THANKS!!!


----------



## moon (Dec 14, 2021)

audio1 said:


> Layers not the same as natural dbl tracking.
> 
> Automatic Double Tracking {ADT} is an effect....which I love...but not the same as natural dbl tracking.
> 
> ...


How are layers different from "natural" double tracking? You're just stacking multiples of the same note.


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 14, 2021)

audio1 said:


> Didn't you had to own Sacconi or first chair to comment on AR2. Please except my apology.
> 
> Session strings are great for alot of purposes. Yes, can get thick sounding but unsure if its a natural dbl versus built in fx. AR2 uses ADT. Not the same thing as record section twice.
> 
> Honestly guys, seems you just want people to only agree with what you think. Sorry for being indifferent and offering some thoughts that don't jive with the rest.


Look, I have no dog in this hunt, but double tracking and layering samples are effectively the same thing. The only difference is double tracking is done with live instruments and not samples. Quit picking nits, don’t buy this library and let’s all move on to less tedious discussion.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 14, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Look, I have no dog in this hunt, but double tracking and layering samples are effectively the same thing. The only difference is double tracking is done with live instruments and not samples. Quit picking nits, don’t buy this library and let’s all move on to less tedious discussion.


Double tracking would work with samples if you can control the round robins used. Otherwise, it is probably useless to try. At least with the same library.


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## prodigalson (Dec 15, 2021)

audio1 said:


> Didn't you had to own Sacconi or first chair to comment on AR2. Please except my apology.


You don't have to own a library to comment but when you present authoritative opinions about the nature of a variety of libraries and make sweeping generalizations about a developer's approach to them it's useful for others to know whether you have any actual experience with any of the libraries or if you're just going off demos. Especially when much of those opinions go against the experience of those actually using them.


audio1 said:


> Honestly guys, seems you just want people to only agree with what you think. Sorry for being indifferent and offering some thoughts that don't jive with the rest.


No, of course you can think what you think and your input is welcome but if people disagree with you they are also going to make it clear.


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## babylonwaves (Dec 15, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Double tracking would work with samples if you can control the round robins used. Otherwise, it is probably useless to try. At least with the same library.


that's what the layering options are for. In essence you trigger a different sample. It works well here. Also, as somebody else mentioned earlier on, you can use a different mic. Of course, that doesn't give you a different RR in the sense of a player playing the note slightly different but id adds (with the layering) to the impression that two different players are at work.


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## audio1 (Dec 15, 2021)

*"Double tracking* or *doubling* is an audio recording technique in which a performer sings or plays along with their own prerecorded performance, usually to produce a stronger or bigger sound than can be obtained with a single voice or instrument."

RR layers do not do this.


----------



## styledelk (Dec 15, 2021)

You're being literal.


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## audio1 (Dec 15, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> You don't have to own a library to comment but when you present authoritative opinions about the nature of a variety of libraries and make sweeping generalizations about a developer's approach to them it's useful for others to know whether you have any actual experience with any of the libraries or if you're just going off demos. Especially when much of those opinions go against the experience of those actually using them.
> 
> No, of course you can think what you think and your input is welcome but if people disagree with you they are also going to make it clear.


Using that logic, one could not comment {or present an opinion} on a mix or score because they were not there while it was being produced, and therefore lack authority. Sorry, can't have it both ways, its all the same thing.


----------



## audio1 (Dec 15, 2021)

styledelk said:


> You're being literal.


Yes, I think that is the point. There is literally Big difference in sound between real overdubbed double tracking and RR script trick layers to try achieve this effect. 

Its common practice on any studio session.


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 15, 2021)

audio1 said:


> Using that logic, one could not comment {or present an opinion} on a mix or score because they were not there while it was being produced, and therefore lack authority. Sorry, can't have it both ways, its all the same thing.


Its not the same thing because with a sample library any demo may not sound like the product out of the box in your hands OR may be very difficult to work with to get a good sound OR have a much wider variety of sonic possibilities than the demos on release show. Hence, when providing commentary on a library's potential and developer's approach it's useful to know if you've actually worked with the library or are just going off the demos. Because the two are not the same. 

Noone has said you can't comment or aren't entitled to your opinions, everyone's opinion is welcome, but the experience behind the opinion is relevant and those of us with different opinions and different experiences are entitled to disagree and challenge that opinion.


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## MelodicAdagio (Dec 15, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> Just in case this has not already been posted...



A note on Eleanor Rigby. According to Mark Lewisohn's _The Beatles Recording Sessions_, this song was recorded with a double string quartet or octet: 4 violins, 2 violas and 2 cellos. He actually listed the musicians who were hired, so there were definitely eight players on the original. So the AR2 quintet, while recorded in the same space, will have some inherent differences based on that alone.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 15, 2021)

audio1 said:


> *"Double tracking* or *doubling* is an audio recording technique in which a performer sings or plays along with their own prerecorded performance, usually to produce a stronger or bigger sound than can be obtained with a single voice or instrument."
> 
> RR layers do not do this.


I'm a singer. I double track all the time with my vocals. The point of double tracking versus copying the track is because they are slightly different enough to make fuller rather than just louder. You could technically do this with samples that were recorded at the same time but are different takes - aka the round robins. Same player, slightly different sound. But most libraries do not allow you to pick the round robin used. 

Layering a different library works also, but you won't have the same room or player. So it is more like having a background singer do the doubling. Using different mics is also not really the same if they are the exact same take, because the sound is still exactly the same, just delayed. I've actually tried this with vocals. It was a fun experiment. You have to watch out for phasing. But it isn't doubling. So, not a fuller sound in the end.


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## Soundbed (Dec 15, 2021)

As much as I want to say the double tracking conversation is a little pedantic, the sound of the Spitfire player transposition settings is a little surprising to me. It doesn’t really sound to me like the same player tracking the same thing twice (it doesn’t match the round robins to transpose). It “works” but it’s not how I expected it to sound. I can post some examples later …


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## moon (Dec 15, 2021)

audio1 said:


> Yes, I think that is the point. There is literally Big difference in sound between real overdubbed double tracking and RR script trick layers to try achieve this effect.
> 
> Its common practice on any studio session.


So if I rendered a line with no doubling, rendered it again with everything bumped over by one RR, then merged them together, would that make you happy? I’m just genuinely confused how you’re supposed to have double tracking on a library if this doesn’t count, unless they went and literally recorded all of the material twice over.


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## audio1 (Dec 15, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm a singer. I double track all the time with my vocals. The point of double tracking versus copying the track is because they are slightly different enough to make fuller rather than just louder. You could technically do this with samples that were recorded at the same time but are different takes - aka the round robins. Same player, slightly different sound. But most libraries do not allow you to pick the round robin used.
> 
> Layering a different library works also, but you won't have the same room or player. So it is more like having a background singer do the doubling. Using different mics is also not really the same if they are the exact same take, because the sound is still exactly the same, just delayed. I've actually tried this with vocals. It was a fun experiment. You have to watch out for phasing. But it isn't doubling. So, not a fuller sound in the end.


On group vocals we use to switch spots and take a step back from the mic. Same with hand claps. On strings, horn and even GTR ODs we would often move the close and room mics around to capture a different "space" in the room. It was like playing with the density in the room, but ultimately same player/singer was the key to a thick sound. We also use to vari-speed the 24trk down a smidge on some ODs. Sort like ADT, but a second pass slightly detuned. That treatment on rock gtrs was too cool.


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## audio1 (Dec 15, 2021)

moon said:


> unless they went and literally recorded all of the material twice over.


That is exactly what I'm talking about.


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## wunderflo (Dec 15, 2021)

MelodicAdagio said:


> A note on Eleanor Rigby. According to Mark Lewisohn's _The Beatles Recording Sessions_, this song was recorded with a double string quartet or octet: 4 violins, 2 violas and 2 cellos. He actually listed the musicians who were hired, so there were definitely eight players on the original. So the AR2 quintet, while recorded in the same space, will have some inherent differences based on that alone.


the math works differently with samples, though. Play a chord with 4 notes, and you hear 4 violins. Had they recorded 4 violins, it'd sound like 16 violins. Thus, the way they did it was a wise choice and makes it sound quite close to the original. Plus, there's this multi-voice mode etc. So you basically get solo strings and chamber strings in one package. 

In general, I think it's a very fair if not great offer. For 220 or 370 you get a ton of extremely high quality content. It seems to be quite versatile, too. Some don't like the close, edgy/gritty sound. That's okay. It's basically sold as "rock strings", so it doesn't try to be anything it isn't, and doesn't try to hide anything. In other words: The "harshness" is a feature, not a bug. 

All other complaints were related to stuff it doesn't contain (portamento in core) or contains too much of (mic positions). The last point seems particularly strange to me, as you can just get the core version or just delete the content you don't need. How can one complain about getting too much of something? Even when you delete unneeded mic positions, the price still remains fair. Recording at such a place with these players and engineers must have been a huge investment. Comparable solo string libraries aren't really cheaper, are they? So far, I haven't read anything about actual flaws. 

People seem to get hung up on the silliest things. It's not "Eleanor Rigby" strings. That's just a suitable example to explain its sonic characteristics, obviously. Why should it try to mimic 100% exactly this sound. So you can recreate this track once, and then buy another library for the next track? 

I think its only flaw is the timing of its release. Had they announced to be working on a solo strings library earlier and more clearly - maybe even with some sound examples -, some of us might have spent their Black Friday money differently (not on other solo string libraries) ... as someone working in marketing, I usually admire Spitfire's marketing, but in this case their feeling for the market might have been a bit off. Oh well, happens. As an owner of CHSS I'm still trying to resist, but it's tough.


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## moon (Dec 15, 2021)

audio1 said:


> That is exactly what I'm talking about.


And doubling round robins, for all intents and purposes, is different how?


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## StillLife (Dec 15, 2021)

wunderflo said:


> the math works differently with samples, though. Play a chord with 4 notes, and you hear 4 violins. Had they recorded 4 violins, it'd sound like 16 violins. Thus, the way they did it was a wise choice and makes it sound quite close to the original. Plus, there's this multi-voice mode etc. So you basically get solo strings and chamber strings in one package.


Yes! This non-multivoice mode is what makes this library so attractive to me! Pretty unique feature, isn't it?


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## Soundbed (Dec 15, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> As much as I want to say the double tracking conversation is a little pedantic, the sound of the Spitfire player transposition settings is a little surprising to me. It doesn’t really sound to me like the same player tracking the same thing twice (it doesn’t match the round robins to transpose). It “works” but it’s not how I expected it to sound. I can post some examples later …


I don't really have time to fully demonstrate with audio at the moment — in the context of this double tracking discussion and all the permutations of what it is or what it might sound like with various techniques.

But I would encourage others to explore the options in the Spitfire player (including the mic position in Pro, not pictured; "Vintage Mix 2 - An alternative to Vintage Mix 1, with added Automatic Double Tracking for a distinctly 60s effect.")

Because ...

From my listening the transposition stuff sounds a little ... "off" ...





... Neighbor Zone RR sounds fine, I guess.

The x2 options sometimes "thin out" the sound more than I'd wish ... they aren't sounding "fuller" or "bigger" like I'd hope or expect. They sound a bit "thinner" like there's some cancellation.

Of course, I'm on the side of those who'd say true round robins sound like typical double tracking, if you can be certain the MIDI is triggering the same pitch but a different RR. One could easily put them on a different audio track and apply some add'l wah and flutter to that channel. To go further and move the player's position in the room as an extension of "double tracking" isn't exactly required to be considered double tracked ... but anyway, enough has been said.

The differences between AR2 and the actual Eleanor Rigby recordings are going to be far more different than the differences between AR2 "without double tracking" versus AR2 "with double tracking," however that double tracking gets achieved.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 15, 2021)

I don't see how any RR-substitution method could sound like real double-tracking since slight differences in timing (as well as timbre and pitch) are crucial to the effect.


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## Soundbed (Dec 15, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I don't see how any RR-substitution method could sound like real double-tracking since slight differences in timing (as well as timbre and pitch) are crucial to the effect.


Well, you'd play the other RR with different timing, on a different track, and the differences in timbre and pitch should be inherent to the RR — otherwise it would be the same sample.

But there are so many variables to accomplishing "double tracking" effects with sampled instruments that this conversation needs 1000 caveats and instructions to be "worth it" lol...


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## SupremeFist (Dec 15, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Well, you'd play the other RR with different timing, on a different track, and the differences in timbre and pitch should be inherent to the RR — otherwise it would be the same sample.
> 
> But there are so many variables to accomplishing "double tracking" effects with sampled instruments that this conversation needs 1000 caveats and instructions to be "worth it" lol...


Ah OK gotcha 🤘🏻


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## MelodicAdagio (Dec 15, 2021)

JohnG said:


> A number of people have asserted this same position: that one doesn't really use as many as 20 mics
> 
> But sometimes they do, sometimes a lot more.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of this, but it still could be too big in some cases. I have 10TB of samples drive space, with free space rapidly disappearing and no more drive slots available. So adding close to 300GB for one library is probably more than I want to do. I'd probably have to opt for the Core version for now, if I were to go for it. So it's not always just a simple matter of grabbing another SSD from NewEgg to accommodate a large library and the problem is solved simply and cheaply.

I don't mind having a lot of mics, though, as long as the sound can be dialed in to what's desired as a consequence. It sounds like with AR2 it can be.


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## prodigalson (Dec 15, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I don't see how any RR-substitution method could sound like real double-tracking since slight differences in timing (as well as timbre and pitch) are crucial to the effect.


Spitfire Albion Neo accomplishes this by providing two separate small string sections, A and B with similar articulations but totally different recordings to layer if a double is desired.


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## Calagan (Dec 15, 2021)

Anyone compared AR2 to the 1st chair section of LASS3 ?
I know it's a complete different product (and sound) but I don't find any exemple of the solo strings of LASS3 - even not on their site. 
I am quite impressed by the Eleanor Rigby mockup uploaded 10 years ago on Youtube.
I'm in search for a solo string library and AR2 is the sound I'm searching for, but there are quite some issues and I don't know if I would not be more happy with the Sacconi quartet or even LASS3...


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## StefVR (Dec 15, 2021)

Always strange to me that people are happy to pay 400 bucks for the library and not willing Tobias 30 bucks for the SSD space … More mic positions equal to more options so it’s great to me.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 15, 2021)

StefVR said:


> Always strange to me that people are happy to pay 400 bucks for the library and not willing Tobias 30 bucks for the SSD space … More mic positions equal to more options so it’s great to me.


Depends on the time of year and country you live in. SSDs get pricey, especially over 1TB. And it is getting hard to find spinning drives with 7200 RPMs of any size if you can't afford SSDs.


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## madfloyd (Dec 15, 2021)

So in my first 5 minutes of playing around with this, I have an issue.

Using Violins 2, playing spiccatissimo 8th notes on pitch E3 I'm hearing that one of the RRs is much different than the others: louder and a somewhat different timbre. Sounds like the first note of a metronome. All velocities are the same but you wouldn't know it.

What can I do about this?


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## styledelk (Dec 15, 2021)

Report a bug?


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 15, 2021)

Report it but for the time being maybe lessen the amount of RR's?


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## StillLife (Dec 15, 2021)

Does anybody know how these compare to vsl synchronized solo strings, especially in terms of playability, or, as ism sometimes puts it, ‘plonkability’?


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## MelodicAdagio (Dec 15, 2021)

wunderflo said:


> the math works differently with samples, though. Play a chord with 4 notes, and you hear 4 violins. Had they recorded 4 violins, it'd sound like 16 violins.


Yes, of course. And if you program one note, you get one violin, one cello or whatever. If someone were trying to duplicate the arrangement on "Eleanor Rigby," they most likely aren't playing chords but arranging for the individual voices. There's a lot of note doubling on the original. I was merely pointing out that the library not a one-to-one comparison: 8 instruments (with no double bass) vs five with a double bass. That's all.


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 15, 2021)

Compared to SFSS…
I have messed with it for a short time and the two biggest differences to me are.
1. The sound of Abbey Road is very round and warm. I have nothing like it, it really is a great sounding library and will get lots of use here.
2. The Performance legato in SFSS is more complete and expressive. They may be able to catch up to that with AR2 but at the moment no CC21 controlling vibrato in AR2. SFSS vibrato can get over the top but you can dial it back down. AR2 never gets over the top on the performance patch so it is a fine middle ground but wish it had CC21 ability like SFSS.


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## gzapper (Dec 15, 2021)

audio1 said:


> It's interesting, this library is presented as "iconic strings" but is really a string quartet plus 1, but with no string quartet demos at all, including the iconic string quartet referenced in the marketing splash page. Bow what would have made this a really cool product, is if they ditched all the mic fluff, got a great sound, and then provided a 2nd mult/doubled version of all articulations and patches to help create a cool ensemble. Amazing, this has been done in some gtr libraries, but no string/orch libraries. And, when you consider live mult of smaller instrument sections was done on so many iconic recordings {was the norm for many many years} it makes you wonder if thier just reinventing the wheel but hyping it differently. I do know, if you dbled the AR2 players naturally, it would help smooth out the inconststecies and wonky tone - especially on the brittle shorts. Man, instead of a big section, I would kill for a small ensemble with dbl patches included. Would help solve a lot of sonic problems in many libraries because you could control the density of the room between "pass 1 and 2". All the time and effort going into programming 50 mics versus a dew...and the the dbl. Honestly, I'm confused about what is so "iconic" with this product.


Could you do that with a second instance of the strings but using different mics?


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## madfloyd (Dec 15, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Report it but for the time being maybe lessen the amount of RR's?


Thank you. I had to reduce from 8 RRs to 4 as it was the 5th one that was messed up.

Finding similar round robin errors too. Very discouraging.


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## madfloyd (Dec 15, 2021)

Is it fair to say that with the ensemble patch, even if you just play one note, we're hearing multiple players vs the other patches (e.g. violin 1) where it's a single player?

The sound is very different, even with the same mics/mix etc.


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 15, 2021)

madfloyd said:


> Is it fair to say that with the ensemble patch, even if you just play one note, we're hearing multiple players vs the other patches (e.g. violin 1) where it's a single player?
> 
> The sound is very different, even with the same mics/mix etc.


Depends how you set up the arranger.


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## audio1 (Dec 15, 2021)

gzapper said:


> Could you do that with a second instance of the strings but using different mics?


Yes, but it would need to be the right mics...which is dependent...on how it sounds in the room. Just like mics, rooms have different sonic characteristics. Just gotta find the right mic/room combo. Point being, just because you have a great mic doesn't mean its going to sound great used in every room. Also, I mentioned in another post you can move the mics around the room, or leave the mics still and then move the players to a different room position. This works great when working with small ensembles ODs to create a bigger section sound. RR Layers or ADT will not capture this in the same way. Hope that makes sense.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 15, 2021)

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on AR2 now. At first I was put off by the long tone, but if I do buy it I'd have to go with Pro. The different mic options can reshape the sound dramatically from what I've seen. 

The thing is almost crippled in the core version for me. 

Add in the portamento (USED SPARINGLY!) this can be a definite bold color on the palette. This is a ballsy VI that takes some chances. I already have CSSS (To go with CSS) which to me is a pretty romantic and well behaved set. 

With Pacific coming up, my SSD's will be full but my wallet empty, so I'm still treading carefully. 

2 or 3 weeks or so to decide. These sample Devs are killing me this year!


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## wunderflo (Dec 16, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Thanks for this! I don't have time to play with them back to back right now (other deadlines looming) but I will try to do some comparisons this week. Replying in case someone else has both ...?
> 
> _try the Modern Cello with "body 09 (0.6s)" & "clear small ambience". Then maybe add a little bit of hall reverb with the lows and highs rolled off going into it (since that's the Abbey Road reverb trick  ) and maybe a bit of "vintage" flavor processing._


so I did what I suggested here, and attached you can listen to the result.

I tried to approximate the sonic characteristics of the AR2IS Vintage 2 mix (the one with a bit of ADT) using Chris Hein Solo Strings and trying to recreate the AR signal chain with its virtual pendants (mostly Waves Abbey Road plugins). Please keep in mind that I don't have AR2, so I did this by trying to remember the sound of the demos.

It's probably a horrible example, doing all the libraries injustice. Please forgive my quick & dirty recordings. The timing is all over the place (because of my playing) and I probably boosted the bass way too much. Also, I can't get CHSS to work properly with CC controlled dynamic crossfades for some weird reason. Hence, the dynamic layers are only controlled by velocity, which sucks.

First you hear a demonstration of what's supposed to mimic the warm and soulful flautandos played by the whole ensemble. This is followed by a demonstration of what's supposed to mimic the edgy, gritty and powerful shorts. The modern cello is super scratchy. I actually played it quite softly, but still...

If I could go back in time, I'd have gotten AR2IS instead of CHSS, but owning CHSS it's kinda hard to justify buying AR2IS, because even though the sound is different of course, it seems to be suitable to accomplish similar tasks. What do you think?


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## madfloyd (Dec 16, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Depends how you set up the arranger.


I'm not sure what you mean here, can you elaborate?


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## Rob (Dec 16, 2021)

StillLife said:


> Does anybody know how these compare to vsl synchronized solo strings, especially in terms of playability, or, as ism sometimes puts it, ‘plonkability’?


I have the synchronized solo strings, might try a rendition of ERigby to compare, if it's of any use... it may also be fun to isolate the vocals with something like Layers and put them on a rendered VST track


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 16, 2021)

madfloyd said:


> I'm not sure what you mean here, can you elaborate?


You can limit the ranges of all the instruments individually in the arranger so there is some flexibility to how thick the texture is.


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## madfloyd (Dec 16, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> You can limit the ranges of all the instruments individually in the arranger so there is some flexibility to how thick the texture is.


I assume by arranger you're not referring to my DAW but a feature in the plugin. I'll have to check that out.

I was basically asking if when you play one note with the ensemble patch if you're hearing one instrument/one musician or more than that. I'm assuming by your response that it depends on the arranger settings.


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## becolossal (Dec 16, 2021)

madfloyd said:


> I assume by arranger you're not referring to my DAW but a feature in the plugin. I'll have to check that out.
> 
> I was basically asking if when you play one note with the ensemble patch if you're hearing one instrument/one musician or more than that. I'm assuming by your response that it depends on the arranger settings.


The arranger in the plug-in. You can choose to not have those note ranges overlap so only certain instruments play in certain ranges in the ensemble patch.


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 16, 2021)

I'm enjoying the "sound" of the library, the shorts are just great, longs good (sonically great) but not quite as useable but good.

Here is a quick piece with both, mostly longs...I use it as a quartet and as a chamber ensemble.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/we7pw274ypbf0wb/Benedicition%20.mp3?dl=0


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## wunderflo (Dec 16, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> I'm enjoying the "sound" of the library, the shorts are just great, longs good (sonically great) but not quite as useable but good.
> 
> Here is a quick piece with both, mostly longs...I use it as a quartet and as a chamber ensemble.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/we7pw274ypbf0wb/Benedicition%20.mp3?dl=0


great demo. Thanks! Did you use the Core or Pro version?


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## alcorey (Dec 16, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> I'm enjoying the "sound" of the library, the shorts are just great, longs good (sonically great) but not quite as useable but good.
> 
> Here is a quick piece with both, mostly longs...I use it as a quartet and as a chamber ensemble.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/we7pw274ypbf0wb/Benedicition%20.mp3?dl=0


Your composition is gorgeous.  Benediction
It brought back memories (not so fond), as I was an altar boy in the Catholic church as a youth and I'll never forget Benediction (following the priest around during the Stations of the Cross carrying a brass sort of swinging covered chalice with burning incense inside for an hour or so - nauseous? yes, very!)


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 16, 2021)

wunderflo said:


> great demo. Thanks! Did you use the Core or Pro version?


Thanks wunderflo! I used Pro but did not use any portamento. I did use a bit of vintage mics as I can expand or retract the stereo field some. I think for a piece like this it would make minimal difference.


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## andyhy (Dec 16, 2021)

I'm on the fence as far as buying AR2IS is concerned. I don't have the practical experience that so many members of this forum possess. To my ears the shorts are very convincing but when it comes to the longs and especially the legatos I don't hear the same slide I'm accustomed to with SCS and SSS. Am I missing something? Were those legatos an inaccurate representation of what a legato should sound like? With AR2IS legatos the sound up and down seems too separated to my ears. Again I apologise if my inexperience offends anyone.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 16, 2021)

Totally OT, but I just watched a video with Paul where he’s wearing a t-shirt with the words “Very excited” 

Gotta love these guys!


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 16, 2021)

andyhy said:


> I'm on the fence as far as buying AR2IS is concerned. I don't have the practical experience that so many members of this forum possess. To my ears the shorts are very convincing but when it comes to the longs and especially the legatos I don't hear the same slide I'm accustomed to with SCS and SSS. Am I missing something? Were those legatos an inaccurate representation of what a legato should sound like? With AR2IS legatos the sound up and down seems too separated to my ears. Again I apologise if my inexperience offends anyone.


It is a fair approximation of a solo string but with a single violin it is extremely exposed, in a section there is more of a "smear" which is a bit more forgiving. It also is piece dependent as certain uses a solo string from a library can work quite well while other pieces may be too demanding. Still a lot is user dependent too.


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## andyhy (Dec 16, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> It is a fair approximation of a solo string but with a single violin it is extremely exposed, in a section there is more of a "smear" which is a bit more forgiving. It also is piece dependent as certain uses a solo string from a library can work quite well while other pieces may be too demanding. Still a lot is user dependent too.


So whether it's a solo string performer or a whole section makes a huge difference to the way we hear a legato.


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## Calagan (Dec 17, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> I'm enjoying the "sound" of the library, the shorts are just great, longs good (sonically great) but not quite as useable but good.
> 
> Here is a quick piece with both, mostly longs...I use it as a quartet and as a chamber ensemble.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/we7pw274ypbf0wb/Benedicition%20.mp3?dl=0


Hi Craig... Nice piece, and it sounds good to me.
As you are a TV/Film composer, to what other solo string library would you compare AR2 ? And what would be the pro/con of it (or better said, for what kind of music would you use it, compared to other solo string libraries you've got) ?
In your exemple, I like very much the sound of AR2 (dry, very natural, maybe a bit "acid" sometime), but I sometimes hear what I hear in a lot of other audio exemples I found here and there : the transitions are not so smooth like on other libraries. I've got impression it's ok for simple long notes, but for more rythmic lines I always hear abrupt/agressive sound, not exactly smooth. It's difficult to describe (specially that it's based on other stuff I heard from other users, there's not much of this in your piece), but maybe you should understand about what I'm speaking about if you experienced something similar...


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## holywilly (Dec 17, 2021)

Does anyone here using this library to accompany other strings libraries? I found the timbre of Violin I is quite difficult to blend with others.


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## sumskilz (Dec 17, 2021)

Calagan said:


> In your exemple, I like very much the sound of AR2 (dry, very natural, maybe a bit "acid" sometime), but I sometimes hear what I hear in a lot of other audio exemples I found here and there : the transitions are not so smooth like on other libraries. I've got impression it's ok for simple long notes, but for more rythmic lines I always hear abrupt/agressive sound, not exactly smooth. It's difficult to describe...


I'd describe it as samples chopped up and placed next to each other rather than a real performance, which of course is what it really is, but I've heard other libraries do a much better job at emulating a real performance, even if they can't pull it off in every situation.


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## Calagan (Dec 17, 2021)

sumskilz said:


> I'd describe it as samples chopped up and placed next to each other rather than a real performance, which of course is what it really is, but I've heard other libraries do a much better job at emulating a real performance, even if they can't pull it off in every situation.


Yep, a bit like that. It's a pity because this is exactly the sound I'm after. 
Is it edition issue (so you can fix it with time), or you can't make nothing about it ?


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## Trevor Meier (Dec 17, 2021)

Anyone with AR2 want to bounce a version for this MIDI-render challenge?






Sustained (legato) strings comparison using a mockup midi


Hi, I made a midi mockup of part of the song Music of the Night (composed by Andrew Lloyd Webber) instrumental for sustained ensemble strings. I referred to the below video (from 2:40 to 3:25). The midi attached includes only CC1 automation controlling dynamic crossfades which I think is...




vi-control.net


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 17, 2021)

Trevor Meier said:


> Anyone with AR2 want to bounce a version for this MIDI-render challenge?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually find these things useless, you want to play each library in and see the benefits and issues of each, a midi file is a poor place to start.



Calagan said:


> Hi Craig... Nice piece, and it sounds good to me.
> As you are a TV/Film composer, to what other solo string library would you compare AR2 ? And what would be the pro/con of it (or better said, for what kind of music would you use it, compared to other solo string libraries you've got) ?
> In your exemple, I like very much the sound of AR2 (dry, very natural, maybe a bit "acid" sometime), but I sometimes hear what I hear in a lot of other audio exemples I found here and there : the transitions are not so smooth like on other libraries. I've got impression it's ok for simple long notes, but for more rythmic lines I always hear abrupt/agressive sound, not exactly smooth. It's difficult to describe (specially that it's based on other stuff I heard from other users, there's not much of this in your piece), but maybe you should understand about what I'm speaking about if you experienced something similar...


The "sound" of this library is what makes it unique, it is recorded in a way that makes it sound like no other solo library I have in a very good way. The ensembles also make working with the library easier than assembling your own ensemble with solo instruments. That said there really is nothing unique playing wise with this compared to others. I originally used the VIR Harmonic Violin as the melody but for the sake of keeping this all AR2 (for this thread) removed it. If I was handing this to a client I'd put it back. The Vir Harmonic Violin (and others) are more expressive. None sonically sound better than AR2 but expression would trump that for me. Being able to blend both is optimal and if I send this out as a cue I'll do that along with adding some haunting bell figures in the back half.


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## Trevor Meier (Dec 17, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> I actually find these things useless, you want to play each library in and see the benefits and issues of each, a midi file is a poor place to start.


Fair enough. IMO the demos have been useful. It's interesting to hear the tone of many libraries side by side.


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 17, 2021)

andyhy said:


> So whether it's a solo string performer or a whole section makes a huge difference to the way we hear a legato. Thanks for explaining that. I also found this youtube video clarified for me what I should be expecting to hear in good legato samples.



I kind of don't want to send this thread off the rails but maybe some history about why there are legato samples in libraries might help. Original sample libraries did not have legato, just sustains for long notes. The best libraries longs had a nice emotional vibrato and tone but that was about it (Sonic Implants comes to mind, EWQLSO followed). We are talking a good 15 yrs ago. Often there would be a sucking sound between the end of notes and the beginning of new ones. This was "mostly" solved with the creation of legato samples (a way of connecting one note to another) to make lines flow better than using sustains. VSL was the first and they did it well but to many the room was too dry (the dry room helped with creating a good legato) and the sound was lacking that cinematic scoring sound heard in movies. Companies moved to scoring stages but that created it's own set of problems as the room would reflect sound making legato (especially for solo instruments) difficult as you would get phasing or hear 2 notes on transitions ruining the illusion that you were listening to a single player. This issue is a balancing act that continues to this day and this forum is filled with years of complaints to companies (who really try their best) at making a not perfect product. With good sounding samples one can write great sounding mockups for orchestra w/o legato patches, solo instruments w/o legato almost impossible unless one writes a lot of shorts or to the particular strength of whatever library one is using.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 17, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> I kind of don't want to send this thread off the rails but maybe some history about why there are legato samples in libraries might help. Original sample libraries did not have legato, just sustains for long notes. The best libraries longs had a nice emotional vibrato and tone but that was about it (Sonic Implants comes to mind, EWQLSO followed). We are talking a good 15 yrs ago. Often there would be a sucking sound between the end of notes and the beginning of new ones. This was "mostly" solved with the creation of legato samples (a way of connecting one note to another) to make lines flow better than using sustains. VSL was the first and they did it well but to many the room was too dry (the dry room helped with creating a good legato) and the sound was lacking that cinematic scoring sound heard in movies. Companies moved to scoring stages but that created it's own set of problems as the room would reflect sound making legato (especially for solo instruments) difficult as you would get phasing or hear 2 notes on transitions ruining the illusion that you were listening to a single player. This issue is a balancing act that continues to this day and this forum is filled with years of complaints to companies (who really try their best) at making a not perfect product. With good sounding samples one can write great sounding mockups for orchestra w/o legato patches, solo instruments w/o legato almost impossible unless one writes a lot of shorts or to the particular strength of whatever library one is using.


Yep, most libraries' sustains or "longs" are amplitude shaped such that you get nasty sucking between them and they won't sound connected when placed together. So people complain about a lack of legato not because they want every phrase to be literally legato but because they just want to be able to create a convincing connected line (that might actually be détaché or retongued in an ideal world). EWQLO's "Q legato" was actually a pretty good solution to this for the time!


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## easyrider (Dec 17, 2021)




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## Calagan (Dec 17, 2021)

Exhausting to watch but very interesting indeed...


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## easyrider (Dec 17, 2021)

I don’t think I’ll buy AR2


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## jazzman7 (Dec 17, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I don’t think I’ll buy AR2


what tipped you over?


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## easyrider (Dec 18, 2021)

jazzman7 said:


> what tipped you over?


I think I can get a similar sound with LASS and it offers more scope....Plus I don't really need all those MICS and although the Core is a a decent price for what you get I would want the portamento.


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## sumskilz (Dec 18, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I think I can get a similar sound with LASS and it offers more scope....Plus I don't really need all those MICS and although the Core is a a decent price for what you get I would want the portamento.


I came to the same conclusion, and I had been waiting to see what Spitfire came up with in Studio Two before I decided. I also just find the mock-ups I've heard of LASS to be more believable as performances. I like the timbre of AR2 a bit better, but if I’m left feeling like it really needs to be replaced with real strings most of the time, then I wouldn’t really be gaining anything from that. Plus, LASS can probably come close and does a whole lot more.


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## easyrider (Dec 18, 2021)

sumskilz said:


> I came to the same conclusion, and I had been waiting to see what Spitfire came up with in Studio Two before I decided. I also just find the mock-ups I've heard of LASS to be more believable as performances. I like the timbre of AR2 a bit better, but if I’m left feeling like it really needs to be replaced with real strings most of the time, then I wouldn’t really be gaining anything from that. Plus, LASS can probably come close and does a whole lot more.


LASS is getting Flamed here





LA Scoring Strings 3


Interesting ... well, I was quoting the AubioBro website listing what's new in LASS 3 ... maybe there is something new about the way Marcatos were implemented? ...: I think they called them marcato back then as well.




vi-control.net





hmmmm


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## GSH (Dec 18, 2021)

Hi there,

I could not resist to try AR2 in a mock-up in a classical string quartet setting:



I am happy with AR2.

Gido


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## wunderflo (Dec 18, 2021)

I'm glad this thread documents my very serious and eager attempts to resist buying AR2IS (check my CHSS audio demo on page 18) - in case I should ever need proof in front of a divorce court. 

However, I finally gave in and bought the damn thing (Core version) - and I'm actually very glad I did. It's 100% my cup of tea. The reviews by Guy and also Sample Library Review are spot-on. Guy puts it in the right context. Pete Calandra's demos give you a great impression, too.

While CHSS can do edgy, bitey, close and loud with a big variety of shorts, it lacks the beauty, warmth and roundness that also defines the sonic characteristics of AR2IS (as well as the simplicity in handling it - CHSS is not too much fun to use tbh). This balance is what makes its sound so special - and I'm sure there's nothing else that sounds like this. It kinda sounds "expensive". It's definitely not too "harsh" or "shrill" (or at least it can be more than that) and it's absolutely not "synthy" (quite the opposite, because the sound is so detailed), but it will certainly cut through a pop/rock/hip-hop mix. CHSS might blend well enough and allow me to sneak in some portamentos, though.

For someone like me who also enjoys producing hip-hop instrumentals, this is a must-have. For those who mostly write rather traditional orchestral or classical quartet/quintet music, there are many other alternatives. 

I could imagine that with their demos Spitfire wanted to avoid giving the impression that its main use case was recreating songs from the past. Righteously so. It's rather very suitable to shine in modern productions. However, they might have tried too hard to write something modern, because some of their demos surprisingly don't really play to its strengths. Maybe that's also because it would have required them to mix it with other non-Spitfire libraries, as it's really quite different from their usual sound. I'm sure Christian will still release a "in context" video, though. 

On the Core vs. Pro discussion: Well, sure I'd too have preferred to pay 50-80 bucks more and therefor receive the portamento articulation in Core. It's definitely a useful articulation for the style of music that this library is made for, imo (not for slow romantic legato lines, but rather for disco-style falls, etc.). On the other hand, it'd be ridiculous to complain about a lack of content for the current price of 220€. You get a lot - including perfectly usable and flexible legatos. However, you buy this library for the shorts and the outstanding sound (if it's the sound you're looking for), anyways. 

Honestly, 370€ is still a fair price even if you don't need the additional mics. Additional mics can be very useful, but now I actually think that they are less useful in this case, simply because the Mix 1 and Vintage Mix 1 are such perfect mixes. And since they have that close sound, they still offer you a ton of flexibility in post-production. It might have been a better upselling incentive to have people pay more for the (vintage) mixes, considering buying plugins to emulate this sound isn't cheaper and probably way less successful in achieving that sound.


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## wunderflo (Dec 18, 2021)

just tried to use the pitch wheel to fake some falls/portamentos, as in a non-classical context this might be perfectly viable. However, it doesn't react to pitch bend? This actually really seems to be an artificial restriction to me, or is there some technical reason why this isn't possible/allowed?


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## styledelk (Dec 18, 2021)

wunderflo said:


> just tried to use the pitch wheel to fake some falls/portamentos, as in a non-classical context this might be perfectly viable. However, it doesn't react to pitch bend? This actually really seems to be an artificial restriction to me, or is there some technical reason why this isn't possible/allowed?


Spitfire's acoustic instrument libraries tend to have pitchbend turned off. My guess is that it's always too fake sounding and casts the libraries in a bad light. The more synth-oriented libraries still allow it.


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## Grizzlymv (Dec 18, 2021)

sumskilz said:


> I came to the same conclusion, and I had been waiting to see what Spitfire came up with in Studio Two before I decided. I also just find the mock-ups I've heard of LASS to be more believable as performances. I like the timbre of AR2 a bit better, but if I’m left feeling like it really needs to be replaced with real strings most of the time, then I wouldn’t really be gaining anything from that. Plus, LASS can probably come close and does a whole lot more.


Hmmm. That's interesting I thought of the same with CSSS but it obviously lack the basses which is a bummer. Would be curious to hear the same track rendered in both lass and ar2 to compare, if someone have both already and obviously has time for it. .


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## Grizzlymv (Dec 18, 2021)

styledelk said:


> Spitfire's acoustic instrument libraries tend to have pitchbend turned off. My guess is that it's always too fake sounding and casts the libraries in a bad light. The more synth-oriented libraries still allow it.


True, but that's one of the reason why I liked when they were still using Kontakt. I would still have the ability to go under the hood and activate it myself, which I did in several cases and to good results for what I was trying to achieve. I just wish they would allow to enable it in the option menu in their new engine.


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## Jorf88 (Dec 18, 2021)

GSH said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I could not resist to try AR2 in a mock-up in a classical string quartet setting:
> 
> ...



I think my biggest gripe is that the vibrato of all of the instruments lines up nearly perfectly. That detail by itself makes any sort of collection of solo instruments (quartets, quintets etc.) sound immediately fake.
There are certainly some moments where a small ensemble will work to line up their vibrato, but it's usually not the case at all. Maybe some folks wouldn't notice that, but after over 25 years of piloting a cello, I can't look over that.

That's a pretty good mockup of that passage, and some of the instrument tones there are great. I think you could use a little more modulation or expression of the supporting tenor instruments (the viola or cello, depending on which segment). It's that swell underneath that can really transform some of those solemn Beethoven passages.


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## Leo (Dec 18, 2021)

GSH said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I could not resist to try AR2 in a mock-up in a classical string quartet setting:
> 
> ...



Thank you for saving me money .


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## madfloyd (Dec 18, 2021)

GSH said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I could not resist to try AR2 in a mock-up in a classical string quartet setting:
> 
> ...



I really like this. Can you tell us:
- was this with Core or Pro?
- which mix?
- are you mostly using the legatos?

Thanks!


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 18, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Does anyone here using this library to accompany other strings libraries? I found the timbre of Violin I is quite difficult to blend with others.


I am using it presently and for some things it meshes great, but when I need progressive vibrato and or molto vibrato it won't get there. Happy to post an example. Still library "sounds" great and will get a lot of use here.


Jorf88 said:


> I think my biggest gripe is that the vibrato of all of the instruments lines up nearly perfectly. That detail by itself makes any sort of collection of solo instruments (quartets, quintets etc.) sound immediately fake.
> There are certainly some moments where a small ensemble will work to line up their vibrato, but it's usually not the case at all. Maybe some folks wouldn't notice that, but after over 25 years of piloting a cello, I can't look over that.
> 
> That's a pretty good mockup of that passage, and some of the instrument tones there are great. I think you could use a little more modulation or expression of the supporting tenor instruments (the viola or cello, depending on which segment). It's that swell underneath that can really transform some of those solemn Beethoven passages.


using more modular expression won't happen, at least at this time, vib is baked in as is.


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## JohnG (Dec 18, 2021)

I just added some trilled passages on V1 to a demo for a new show, and they added tremendous life and a great colour. It was paired with two other Spitfire libraries as it happens, Chamber and Symphonic Strings, but I thought I'd throw it on top and it helped make everything feel much more "played."

As a general matter, fwiw, I don't think demos that have long, long sustains are going to show off Abbey Road Two very well. More nimble pieces are going to disguise the 'made with samples' sound better.

Nothing's perfect but, as @Craig Sharmat has mentioned in a couple of posts, this sound is like nothing else I've heard and I'm very happy to have it to supplement everything else.


[note: I have received free products from Spitfire Sampling]


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## Calagan (Dec 18, 2021)

Leo said:


> Thank you for saving me money .


What's the problem with this mock up ? I find it pretty good.
Specially that AR2 is not supposed to be used for classical quatuor music : you would need more vibrato, ability to control it and a more classical sound for that. 
AR2 is supposed to be mixed with other instruments (electric ones for exemple, drums, etc.) and still have presence, so it's dry (open for artifical reverb), tight and focused. It's not exactly romantic and Beethoven-compatible, but I found the Beethoven quartet surprisingly good. It sounds very natural, and with a bit of reverb and some more work on the dynamics it could be even better.
But I would be glad you explain what you dislike, and what other solo strings library you would recommand (no joke, I'm in search of a solo strings library)...


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## GSH (Dec 18, 2021)

madfloyd said:


> I really like this. Can you tell us:
> - was this with Core or Pro?
> - which mix?
> - are you mostly using the legatos?
> ...


Thank you, madfloyd.
I used the Pro version and chose Mix 1 (plus some Fabfilter Reverb added).
The main patch used is performance legato. Portamento is used on four occasions. In a couple of transitions I prefered the blurred legato over the performance legato.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 18, 2021)

Do we know anything yet about the number of dynamic layers (and the smoothness or otherwise of crossfading between them)?


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## jazzman7 (Dec 18, 2021)

AR2 is a tough one. From everything I've listened to so far a find this incredible mix of beautiful some moments and just awful the next. Do I wanna pop $400 for it? I have a feeling I'll wind up either loving or hating this purchase and not much between. I thought the Beethoven mockup was well done (Hats off) but there were moments when the tone was killer and then suddenly everything would fall off a cliff, only to come back and sound great again. I've bought so much this holiday...I'm kinda ready to put the GAS can away.


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## tc9000 (Dec 18, 2021)




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## tc9000 (Dec 18, 2021)

some lovely compositions btw. i think it must be because i'm using core. yes: i'm sure that's definitely it.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 18, 2021)

We need another @Daniel James 'avin a look at!


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## SupremeFist (Dec 18, 2021)

easyrider said:


>



Very informative here from the lovely Guy M. (Not for me I think at this stage but I can see why it's great for some people.)


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## Leo (Dec 18, 2021)

Calagan said:


> What's the problem with this mock up ? I find it pretty good.
> Specially that AR2 is not supposed to be used for classical quatuor music : you would need more vibrato, ability to control it and a more classical sound for that.
> AR2 is supposed to be mixed with other instruments (electric ones for exemple, drums, etc.) and still have presence, so it's dry (open for artifical reverb), tight and focused. It's not exactly romantic and Beethoven-compatible, but I found the Beethoven quartet surprisingly good. It sounds very natural, and with a bit of reverb and some more work on the dynamics it could be even better.
> But I would be glad you explain what you dislike, and what other solo strings library you would recommand (no joke, I'm in search of a solo strings library)...


Problem with this muck up and sound is literary in everything.
reverb - it's the last thing that bothers me. 
BUT:
1.Vibrato - constant set from the first moment in the same intensity - it's unreal.
vibrato you have to build, and it is one of the hardest things on strings instruments.
2. Sound - (to me) tin, metallic and thin.
3. Attack - very lagy in slower tempo and sharp at the end 
4. legato - for example 1:20 - unconvincing with strange sound - there I should imagine a viola or a cello?
5. I do not want to buy a instrument that I will have to disguise with others instruments

I may be too critical, it's due to the fact that lately I have had first-class concert violinists and cellists at home and I know how to sound these instruments. 
Believe me, these sounds are nowhere near, no way.


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## Calagan (Dec 18, 2021)

Leo said:


> Problem with this muck up and sound is literary in everything.
> reverb - it's the last thing that bothers me.
> BUT:
> 1.Vibrato - constant set from the first moment in the same intensity - it's unreal.
> ...


Yep of course. But do you any solo strings library that delivers ? It’s not about comparing AR2 to real strings or the Kronos quartet, it’s about comparing it to other library... But of course I agree with some of the things you said...


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## jazzman7 (Dec 18, 2021)

Leo said:


> 1.Vibrato - constant set from the first moment in the same intensity - it's unreal.
> vibrato you have to build, and it is one of the hardest things on strings instruments.
> 2. Sound - (to me) tin, metallic and thin.
> 
> 5. I do not want to buy a instrument that I will have to disguise with others instruments


The kind of scratch they are asking for the Pro, I think a bit of Vib control should be part of it.

It has moments of real beauty, but thru a haze of metallic overtones.

I'm not sure there are any Libs that can handle an exposed quartet piece all that well, but this aint one of them. Half a grand for some very cool (I think) shorts? Hmmm 

PS is just about ready to release an entire Major String library with enough dynamics to sink a battleship for the same price, almost. (Loyalty) 

A couple days ago I was gettn close and I really wanted this one to be something I could go for, but I just don't think I'm there yet. I have CSSS and several individual instruments. I think I'll have to settle for what I have for now. Damn shame.

It's a gutsy attempt by Spitfire. A bold color to have in the arsenal, but I think I'm leaning toward being one of the cold and timid souls who knows neither victory or defeat on this one.... Half a grand in hand


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## Trevor Meier (Dec 18, 2021)

jazzman7 said:


> I'm not sure there are any Libs that can handle an exposed quartet piece all that well, but this aint one of them. Half a grand for some very cool (I think) shorts? Hmmm


The new v2 release of Samplemodeling Strings does a pretty solid job with an exposed quartet:



muziksculp said:


> Listening to this video demo of SM Solo & Ens. ver 2.0.1 Quite impressive how expressive, and rich these strings sound, also very detailed, and delicate sounding.
> 
> Excerpt from Capriol Suite (1926) - 5. Pieds-en-l'air, Andante tranquillo, G major, Composed by Peter Warlock - Performed by Cristian Labelli with the new Solo, Chamber & Ensemble Strings v2.0.1


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## jazzman7 (Dec 18, 2021)

Trevor Meier said:


> The new v2 release of Samplemodeling Strings does a pretty solid job with an exposed quartet:


I did hear a mockup that sounded quite good. I have also heard others that don't quite make the grade. Truthfully, I have not really explored them well enough to make a final judgement. I think the Abbey Road name ignited GAS for me that otherwise wouldn't have been there!


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## Calagan (Dec 19, 2021)

jazzman7 said:


> PS is just about ready to release an entire Major String library with enough dynamics to sink a battleship for the same price, almost. (Loyalty)


Sorry for the newbie question : what is PS ? And what about this "Major String library" ?
Regarding AR2, I still think the sound (that some don't like) is the main point of this library (and the thing I like the most in it), and that the various articulations sound quite nice compared to other libs. I mean that they have better and worst aspects (the anemic and on/off vibrato being one of them), but the idea is each library is a compromise.
I didn't hear any serious quartet mockup with LASS, and any convincing audio exemple from sample modeling library (they all sounded horrible for me, but maybe I missed something).
Spitfire Solo Strings or Sacconi are nice but have flaws too (lot of embedded room rev in Sacconi for exemple).
I heard nice solo (1st chair) exemples from MSS, but never in context and only some guy improvising few notes. A lot of people are criticizing the sound of this library, and I guess you've got less articulations and choices for 1st chair than what you've got from a specialized solo string library, but I didn't investigate deeply (so much work). And by the way, it's a more classical sound (not what I'm searching for, but again it depends on the edition - how can I know if it's possible to get more dry and less vibrato sound)...
EDIT : I forgot to speak about Cinematic Studio Solo strings. It sounds very natural to me (maybe the most natural library I heard in solo strings), and seems to be filled with articulations. But it sounds very "classical"/"cinematic" (not the stuff I'm searching for), and the delay in legato may be a pain in the ass while playing/composing/editing. And there's no double bass

I'm truly lost in this solo string world, because of course you can't demo any and the smallest one costs an arm : my wife is a "pop" composer and likes to compose with small strings ensemble (not epic/symphonic at all). She has a project for strings that could be compared to what Agnes Obel is doing (but more experimental, and a different mood : I speak about the instrumentation and the use of non-classical FX and sound with strings). She needs something sufficiantly versatile to demo anything that goes through her head and sufficiently good sounding to use some of what she's composing as a final delivery (for film or sync for exemple). I've got impression that AR2 is the nearest choice because it doesn't sound classical and is still quite rich in articulations. But It's so difficult to judge without demoing...


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## doctoremmet (Dec 19, 2021)

PS = Performance Samples
The Major library likely is the announced Pacifica orchestra


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## zeng (Dec 19, 2021)

I am just comparing 8Dio's Intimate Studio Strings vs AR2 for POP arrangements. I think shorts of 8Dio's is better...what do you think?


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## doctoremmet (Dec 19, 2021)

Calagan said:


> Sorry for the newbie question : what is PS ? And what about this "Major String library" ?
> Regarding AR2, I still think the sound (that some don't like) is the main point of this library (and the thing I like the most in it), and that the various articulations sound quite nice compared to other libs. I mean that they have better and worst aspects (the anemic and on/off vibrato being one of them), but the idea is each library is a compromise.
> I didn't hear any serious quartet mockup with LASS, and any convincing audio exemple from sample modeling library (they all sounded horrible for me, but maybe I missed something).
> Spitfire Solo Strings or Sacconi are nice but have flaws too (lot of embedded room rev in Sacconi for exemple).
> ...


Maybe also check:
- Karoryfer Samples Vengeful series
- for sketching: the free strings in OT’s SINEplayer (Helix)
- the OT strings in LA Sessions, also for SINE (a-la-carte)

Although I think AR2 should be fine too, at least in terms of sound. Disclaimer: I do not own AR2 so my 2 cents are merely based on impressions.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 19, 2021)

Calagan said:


> Sorry for the newbie question : what is PS ? And what about this "Major String library" ?
> Regarding AR2, I still think the sound (that some don't like) is the main point of this library (and the thing I like the most in it), and that the various articulations sound quite nice compared to other libs. I mean that they have better and worst aspects (the anemic and on/off vibrato being one of them), but the idea is each library is a compromise.
> I didn't hear any serious quartet mockup with LASS, and any convincing audio exemple from sample modeling library (they all sounded horrible for me, but maybe I missed something).
> Spitfire Solo Strings or Sacconi are nice but have flaws too (lot of embedded room rev in Sacconi for exemple).
> ...


Performance samples. Pacific should be out sometime early next year. If you have already bought certain libraries there is a loyalty discount.

The weird thing about AR2 is that sometimes it sounds killer, then way too metallic. Opinions vary. For me, I would not buy it without getting pro so the expense for what may only end up being glorified pop strings is kinda high. In a busy rock track I'd bet these would sound great. The shorts are to die for. The longs? Well, they have their moments, good and bad. There are plenty of alternatives that are less expensive for pop string writing


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## doctoremmet (Dec 19, 2021)

zeng said:


> I am just comparing 8Dio's Intimate Studio Strings vs AR2 for POP arrangements. I think shorts of 8Dio's is better...what do you think?



If your comparison is solely based on this demo, I am afraid you’re not right. As much as I love 8Dio’s ISS I wouldn’t say its shorts are a particular highlight. They can do exactly this - so what you hear in this demo - extremely short shorts. There’s not much else there.


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## Calagan (Dec 19, 2021)

This is an addictive forum... 
Thanks a lot for your answers and help... It may add to the confusion, but the confusion is richer and more informed now !!! ah ah ah...
I'm still quite convinced by AR2, but I want to avoid spending 400 bucks for something we will use only for some demoing...


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## zeng (Dec 19, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> If your comparison is solely based on this demo, I am afraid you’re not right. As much as I love 8Dio’s ISS I wouldn’t say its shorts are a particular highlight. They can do exactly this - so what you hear in this demo - extremely short shorts. There’s not much else there.


Yeah my comparison is not based on only this demo (this was just an example of demos), there is only one articulation used in this demo and I played many of its short articulations (also 8Dio Quartet series' have many short articulations). I mean AR2 has also very crisp and short notes (which can be eqed) and they sounded similar to me.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 19, 2021)

zeng said:


> Yeah my comparison is not based on only this demo (this was just an example of demos), there is only one articulation used in this demo and I played many of its short articulations (also 8Dio Quartet series' have many short articulations). I mean AR2 has also very crisp and short notes (which can be eqed) and they sounded similar to me.


Gotcha!


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## jazzman7 (Dec 19, 2021)

zeng said:


> I mean AR2 has also very crisp and short notes (which can be eqed)


EQ can help (A bit) but only around the edges. If folks could EQ out a bad tone, then I would make myself sound more like John Lennon.... instead of The Walrus


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## easyrider (Dec 19, 2021)

I’d buy this if the core had portamento…


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 19, 2021)

I think we have all beat this to death but here is a contextual cue just to add to the thought process.

Cue opens with new Symphobia timed String patches
at 15 secs AR2 becomes a first chair
at 28 secs it is the solo violin, I think it works well there
at 41 secs Vir Harmonic violin takes over as it has more expression
at 52 to1:03 all strings are AR2
1:03 to out no AR2
Harp btw is OT

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dpajwfovbdr5kuf/Broken%20Heart.mp3?dl=0
For those waiting on PS Pacific, well I am too but these products are totally unrelated, one is a large section of strings, the other a quintet. For those looking for the perfect solo strings, it does not exist, but by mixing and matching one can still get a great result. I may start a new thread just talking about mocking up solo strings as I do a lot and have quite a few examples, some which eventually go to real players so you can hear the difference.


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## dcoscina (Dec 19, 2021)

Not sure it's been mentioned here but I think Iconic Strings is definitely relevant in today's film score world. we are seeing much smaller instrument groupings for the art-house and indie films so writing quintets is not out of the ordinary. I'm listening to Greenwood's The Power of the Dog and lots of great string writing. 

So far, I find the tone of Iconic Strings to be spot on. the room and detail in the sound is really great. I do wish Violin 1 was a little more on the vibrato side- it's almost senza vibrato which lowers its emotive qualities. and this seems to be a more CPU/memory intensive library than I've encountered before with Spitfire player-based libraries like AR1 and BBCSO. But it's a good entry. My fleshed out thoughts will be chronicled in my upcoming FSM online review in the new year (disclaimer: I did receive a review copy of this library)


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## Lee Blaske (Dec 19, 2021)

My first quick trial with AR2. I used the ribbon mic mix for this.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 19, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> I think we have all beat this to death but here is a contextual cue just to add to the thought process.
> 
> Cue opens with new Symphobia timed String patches
> at 15 secs AR2 becomes a first chair
> ...


The sound that initially turned me off on AR2 was one I thought was caused by bad playing. As a solo instruments with a single line, it sounds good. Or at least similar to other libraries like the Virharmonic one. It just go synthy/buzzy very quickly, not unlike a whole lot of other string libraries when played with sustained chords. 

I've been waiting for better played pieces to decide. Well, pieces playing to it's strengths. 

And for 40% off, because I don't make money on this. It will likely be on my list for next Christmas now. Thanks.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 19, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> I think we have all beat this to death but here is a contextual cue just to add to the thought process.
> 
> Cue opens with new Symphobia timed String patches
> at 15 secs AR2 becomes a first chair
> ...


That was beautiful! AR2 did not sound out of place. Ugh! I hate being on the fence! Is that the pro?


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## jazzman7 (Dec 19, 2021)

Lee Blaske said:


> My first quick trial with AR2. I used the ribbon mic mix for this.



Your first quick trial? Gonna throw away my VI's now and stick to rock n roll! 

Damn, that was great. You played to it's strengths for sure.


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 19, 2021)

jazzman7 said:


> That was beautiful! AR2 did not sound out of place. Ugh! I hate being on the fence! Is that the pro?


It is but no portamento was used and a similar result could be had with core.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 19, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> It is but no portamento was used and a similar result could be had with core.


Wasn't thinking of Portamento, but the Mic mix


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## jazzman7 (Dec 19, 2021)

Craig Sharmat said:


> For those waiting on PS Pacific, well I am too but these products are totally unrelated, one is a large section of strings, the other a quintet.


Actually, I mentioned Pacific first, but only in the context of comparative price (Based on Loyalty intro). Someone else was saying that they were thinking in terms of strings for rock tracks (Me too, for obvious reasons!) and I said half a grand was a lot for just something like that. All this was part of the response to Guy M's review of AR2. He was scratching his head on where these would fit in. 

I think you answered that rather well with your Cue


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 19, 2021)

jazzman7 said:


> Wasn't thinking of Portamento, but the Mic mix


There is a stereo placement control (it is movable) you won’t get but the sound will be similar.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 19, 2021)

jazzman7 said:


> Actually, I mentioned Pacific first, but only in the context of comparative price (Based on Loyalty intro). Someone else was saying that they were thinking in terms of strings for rock tracks (Me too, for obvious reasons!) and I said half a grand was a lot for just something like that. All this was part of the response to Guy M's review of AR2. He was scratching his head on where these would fit in.
> 
> I think you answered that rather well with your Cue


The impression I got from Guy's review was more that a) as a working media composer he would absolutely buy it just for the sound of the shorts, but b) he didn't think he could recommend it wholeheartedly to his audience as a "do it all" solo strings package. Which makes sense to me.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 19, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> The impression I got from Guy's review was more that a) as a working media composer he would absolutely buy it just for the sound of the shorts, but b) he didn't think he could recommend it wholeheartedly to his audience as a "do it all" solo strings package. Which makes sense to me.


Guy at 32:15 "It caused me quite a lot of head scratching because on one hand I'm like Wow! That's not something I've heard before! But then you go- oh, How am I going to use this?"

At the same time, your take on it is not out of bounds to me either. As usual my wallet and my GAS are having an argument and I'm taking it here partly to be informed by this great community...and possibly be informative as well


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## andyhy (Dec 21, 2021)

Given the rather specialised kind of use I can make of AR2IS I've decided I can't justify buying it at this pricepoint. I was only interested in the Pro version. Maybe if the price had been say $100 lower I might have given in to the temptation as I'm impressed by what I've heard in the demos and reviews but I'm happy with CSSS as my mainstay for solo strings. As Guy Michelmore said, it's more about what you can do with it going forward rather than recreating the sounds of the 60s and 70s. I wouldn't make a lot of use of it so it would be rather a waste of money for me.


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## sumskilz (Dec 21, 2021)

andyhy said:


> As Guy Michelmore said, it's more about what you can do with it going forward rather than recreating the sounds of the 60s and 70s.


Some contemporary genres really play off of incorporating elements that evoke nostalgia, but I don't even think this library can pull off recreating the sounds of the 60s and 70s, because I haven't heard any indication that it can pull off the performance style. Having a similar timbre isn't enough.

I also question the choice of going with solo strings. What music that they referenced in their marketing were solo string performances? I can't think of any. _Eleanor Rigby_ was the closest, with a double quartet - 4 violins, 2 violas, 2 celli. I've heard some mention the library reminds them of _I Am the Walrus_. If so, it isn't due to the ensemble size or room since that was 8 violins and 4 celli in Studio One.

Anyway, I think small sections would have been a better choice, and would have resulted in a library that would be easier to make sound realistic. Plus, including some articulations that would have allowed for Motown style strings would also have been nice, if a bit outside what was recorded at Abbey Road.


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## StillLife (Dec 21, 2021)

sumskilz said:


> Some contemporary genres really play off of incorporating elements that evoke nostalgia, but I don't even think this library can pull off recreating the sounds of the 60s and 70s, because I haven't heard any indication that it can pull off the performance style. Having a similar timbre isn't enough.
> 
> I also question the choice of going with solo strings. What music that they referenced in their marketing were solo string performances? I can't think of any. _Eleanor Rigby_ was the closest, with a double quartet - 4 violins, 2 violas, 2 celli. I've heard some mention the library reminds them of _I Am the Walrus_. If so, it isn't due to the ensemble size or room since that was 8 violins and 4 celli in Studio One.
> 
> Anyway, I think small sections would have been a better choice, and would have resulted in a library that would be easier to make sound realistic. Plus, including some articulations that would have allowed for Motown style strings would also have been nice, if a bit outside what was recorded at Abbey Road.


Small sections might have been a better choice for you, but for me solo strings + an ensemblepatch is what I have been waiting for for years, especially sounding this good. No library will be for everyone, we just have to choose and have been given one more option.


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## ism (Dec 21, 2021)

jazzman7 said:


> Guy at 32:15 "It caused me quite a lot of head scratching because on one hand I'm like Wow! That's not something I've heard before! But then you go- oh, How am I going to use this?"


Or, glass half full: I read this as Guy pondering a fabulous new expressive space opening before him, where no library had gone before.


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## sumskilz (Dec 21, 2021)

StillLife said:


> Small sections might have been a better choice for you, but for me solo strings + an ensemblepatch is what I have been waiting for for years, especially sounding this good. No library will be for everyone, we just have to choose and have been given one more option.


I meant that I think small sections would have been better for reproducing the string parts in 60s and 70s popular music, and in particular the string parts in the music that Spitfire referenced in their marketing, since it was pretty much all done with small sections. Although yes, that happens to be what I would have preferred, something that could pull off string parts in that style anyway, but it's cool that it's working for you.


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## ism (Dec 21, 2021)

I think there was some implication in a video last year that the decision to record solo strings were a consequence of covid restrictions last summer.


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## Calagan (Dec 21, 2021)

Another point : I'm not sure that this string library is specialized at mocking up the 60's string arrangements in pop music (despite all the marketing around Abbey Road). 
I think it's more about string arrangement in pop music "in general" : dry sound, focused, tight, easy to process with fx (reverb, chorus, compression etc. etc.), discrete vibrato...
If you notice, everybody is speaking about Eleanor Rigby but Spitfire team : they didn't insist a lot on that in their marketing speeches. 
Maybe we look at it from a bad perspective.


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## StillLife (Dec 21, 2021)

sumskilz said:


> I meant that I think small sections would have been better for reproducing the string parts in 60s and 70s popular music, and in particular the string parts in the music that Spitfire referenced in their marketing, since it was pretty much all done with small sections. Although yes, that happens to be what I would have preferred, something that could pull off string parts in that style anyway, but it's cool that it's working for you.


Ah, totally understand that. It is just that, for me, and despite the marketing, this library is not about recreating a specific style or song, but about creating new music.


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## StillLife (Dec 21, 2021)

Calagan said:


> Another point : I'm not sure that this string library is specialized at mocking up the 60's string arrangements in pop music (despite all the marketing around Abbey Road).
> I think it's more about string arrangement in pop music "in general" : dry sound, focused, tight, easy to process with fx (reverb, chorus, compression etc. etc.), discrete vibrato...
> If you notice, everybody is speaking about Eleanor Rigby but Spitfire team : they didn't insist a lot on that in their marketing speeches.
> Maybe we look at it from a bad perspective.


Exactly what I think.


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## muziksculp (Dec 21, 2021)

I think AR2 Iconic Strings are very well suited for scoring application, especially for that dry, intimate sound, with an edge. This is a very popular sound in many films, and scores. I also see them being used as a layering library to give more definition, and texture to other string libraries. 

I don't even view them as a 60's Strings library, yes, there is the nostalgia factor because of AR2, and all the famous bands of the 60's that recorded there, but we are in 2021, and soon 2022, and this library has a very modern sound, that fits perfectly for media composers.


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## Daniel James (Dec 21, 2021)

Lee Blaske said:


> My first quick trial with AR2. I used the ribbon mic mix for this.



Man I really like the way you set up your camera for demoing that track. Makes it really engaging for some reason, I am quite inspired 

Cheers!

-DJ


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## Calagan (Dec 25, 2021)

Something I don't get. I had impression you could have some reduction on AR2 if you were owner of Intimate strings. When I add both products in my cart, I don't have any reduction on AR2.
Does it mean the "promo crossgrade" is over ?
Or do I need to buy Intimate strings first, and then as an owner of it to buy AR2 ?


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## zeng (Dec 25, 2021)

Anyone has a chance to compare AR2 to Vienna Solo Strings (VI or sycnhronized, doesn't matter) or to Spitfire Alternative Strings?

Thanks


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## yiph2 (Dec 25, 2021)

Calagan said:


> Something I don't get. I had impression you could have some reduction on AR2 if you were owner of Intimate strings. When I add both products in my cart, I don't have any reduction on AR2.
> Does it mean the "promo crossgrade" is over ?
> Or do I need to buy Intimate strings first, and then as an owner of it to buy AR2 ?


I‘m pretty sure you need to buy Intimate Strings first


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## Calagan (Dec 25, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> I‘m pretty sure you need to buy Intimate Strings first


Thanks for the answer. Yep, actually I just saw that the promotion was still advertised on the Spitfire' site (sorry, I didn't saw that just before posting), and I guess you need to buy it first and then re-order for AR2. 
Anyway, I truly think I will surrender and trigger my credit card for it... Starting with the Core version maybe, to be sure I don't throw money by the window, and then upgrade to Pro if it delivers...


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## easyrider (Dec 25, 2021)

Just received some Spitfire Gift Vouchers so may get AR2 core as a treat.😝


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## Calagan (Dec 25, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Just received some Spitfire Gift Vouchers so may get AR2 core as a treat.😝


And thanks to what special statut you have ? Nice gift for Christmas (I'm quite jealous)...


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## TeamLeader (Dec 25, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Just received some Spitfire Gift Vouchers so may get AR2 core as a treat.😝


how did you receive vouchers easy rider?


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## easyrider (Dec 25, 2021)

You get a code to redeem at checkout 🤓


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## Flyo (Dec 25, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Just received some Spitfire Gift Vouchers so may get AR2 core as a treat.😝How Much ?





easyrider said:


> You get a code to redeem at checkout 🤓


For how much?


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## Calagan (Dec 25, 2021)

easyrider said:


> You get a code to redeem at checkout 🤓


What amount if I can ask (I promise I don't work for a tax institution) ?


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## wilifordmusic (Dec 25, 2021)

Friends and family (as well as complete strangers) can purchase a gift voucher from Spitfire and give/email it to you. They have vouchers in several denominations.

This is probably how easyrider got his voucher and it is most likely not some super secret giveaway voucher.
So, the amount really doesn't matter unless you want to know how generous his benefactor is.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 25, 2021)

I broke down and got the AROOF bundle for $137. Now that I've bought something, the hampers aren't as appealing. I just don't really need any of the stuff I don't already have in them. The organ was tempting, but between the Talin organ and SonicCouture's organ, I am pretty set. With Noire, the OA felt piano just isn't that exciting. And I never really got excited by the EW choir. Okay, I own the EW Hollywood choir. Just not the Spitfire one.

I think I posted this on the wrong thread. LOL!


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## Calagan (Dec 25, 2021)

ok. That explains the absence of answer...
I just need to ask to my mama...


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## zeng (Dec 26, 2021)

zeng said:


> Anyone has a chance to compare AR2 to Vienna Solo Strings (VI or sycnhronized, doesn't matter) or to Spitfire Alternative Strings?
> 
> Thanks


anyone?


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## Trevor Meier (Dec 26, 2021)

Those who've had the library for awhile now, how have your first impressions held up? Any new revelations after using the library for awhile?


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## Rudianos (Dec 26, 2021)

Trevor Meier said:


> Those who've had the library for awhile now, how have your first impressions held up? Any new revelations after using the library for awhile?


I have had the pro version for about a week now. I wake up every day and play this for about an hour on the keyboard. It is by far one of the most rewarding libraries I have in my extreme arsenal. There are no real complete reviews of this available. Just have to sit at the keys and play to get a sense of the potential. I like the dynamic layers - the tightness of the articulations. The bite of the shorts. I like the tone of the longs. Detailed but not too much like say, 8dio. I like the decadent mic options. Nice programming. Mics take a fair bit to load. This is an extremely dense library. Lots of HD space. Worth it.


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## Trevor Meier (Dec 26, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> I have had the pro version for about a week now. I wake up every day and play this for about an hour on the keyboard. It is by far one of the most rewarding libraries I have in my extreme arsenal. There are no real complete reviews of this available. Just have to sit at the keys and play to get a sense of the potential. I like the dynamic layers - the tightness of the articulations. The bite of the shorts. I like the tone of the longs. Detailed but not too much like say, 8dio. I like the decadent mic options. Nice programming. Mics take a fair bit to load. This is an extremely dense library. Lots of HD space. Worth it.


Really helps to hear from a user perspective. Any particular weak points or disappointments so far? How would its utility compare to other studio strings in your arsenal?


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## madfloyd (Dec 26, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> I have had the pro version for about a week now. I wake up every day and play this for about an hour on the keyboard. It is by far one of the most rewarding libraries I have in my extreme arsenal. There are no real complete reviews of this available. Just have to sit at the keys and play to get a sense of the potential. I like the dynamic layers - the tightness of the articulations. The bite of the shorts. I like the tone of the longs. Detailed but not too much like say, 8dio. I like the decadent mic options. Nice programming. Mics take a fair bit to load. This is an extremely dense library. Lots of HD space. Worth it.


Do you mostly use the ensemble patch?


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## Rudianos (Dec 26, 2021)

Trevor Meier said:


> Really helps to hear from a user perspective. Any particular weak points or disappointments so far? How would its utility compare to other studio strings in your arsenal?


I would like a legato patch without vibrato. There is the option on sustains to shift vibrato, but not legato... The vibrato is tasteful but sometimes I like to use my own LFO patches for that. Partially successful with Sustains anyways.

Comparisons Compared to say, 8Dio Deep Studio or Intimate. Tone and legato much nicer. Faster. Sounds like solo strings if you were sitting next to the. The shorts are nice and well rounded with bite - but not as poppy and in your face as the 8dio. Compared to say ISS - less classical here with Abbey Road - but much more percussive. But not too much. 

They are probably really designed to play as a quartet and not so much a diva solo roll. Though I have been testing on some short orchestral solos and even pared with say full sections from Berlin. It can be coaxed to do a solo line pretty darn well. The flexibility is certainly there.

I would grab this for rock, pop, adding definition to larger ensembles - in any context.

They could have done more articulation. Falls, gliss, ricochet ... those would be useful tools in a modern style. Session Strings and 8Dio win there. Cremona wins there too on articulations.


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## Rudianos (Dec 26, 2021)

madfloyd said:


> Do you mostly use the ensemble patch?


I started there. But I just opened up all the patches and echo them in DAW. That is where I start in my morning routine. Even more clarity that way. They are really tightly programmed to each other and didn't have to do too much balancing.


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## zeng (Dec 26, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> I would like a legato patch without vibrato. There is the option on sustains to shift vibrato, but not legato... The vibrato is tasteful but sometimes I like to use my own LFO patches for that. Partially successful with Sustains anyways.
> 
> Comparisons Compared to say, 8Dio Deep Studio or Intimate. Tone and legato much nicer. Faster. Sounds like solo strings if you were sitting next to the. The shorts are nice and well rounded with bite - but not as poppy and in your face as the 8dio. Compared to say ISS - less classical here with Abbey Road - but much more percussive. But not too much.
> 
> ...


Hi Rudianos,

I also have all 8Dio Solo Strings and Intimate Strings. And I am thinking of buying Abbey Road 2 Solo Strings Core version but I'm not convinced yet. I am composing generally music for media (pop, cinematic, drama etc.). Is it a good investment? You say it sounds better than 8dio, is it a significant difference? I love SA's flautandos and as far as I hear flautando of AR2 ensemble is beautiful? So does AR2 replace your 8Dio Solo Strings (and also your other solo libraries if any), will it be your main solo strings library? Or are you going to use your solo libraries together? (for ex it is possible to use both 8dio and AR2 as 2-2-2-2 in a project?). I have also SA Solo Strings and Alternative Strings and I can also buy AR2 Core version, but I guess I need an advice  Thanks


----------



## Rudianos (Dec 26, 2021)

zeng said:


> Hi Rudianos,
> 
> I also have all 8Dio Solo Strings and Intimate Strings. And I am thinking of buying Abbey Road 2 Solo Strings Core version but I'm not convinced yet. I am composing generally music for media (pop, cinematic, drama etc.). Is it a good investment? You say it sounds better than 8dio, is it a significant difference? I love SA's flautandos and as far as I hear flautando of AR2 ensemble is beautiful? So does AR2 replace your 8Dio Solo Strings (and also your other solo libraries if any), will it be your main solo strings library? Or are you going to use your solo libraries together? (for ex it is possible to use both 8dio and AR2 as 2-2-2-2 in a project?). I have also SA Solo Strings and Alternative Strings and I can also buY AR2 Core version, but I guess I need a comment  Thanks



Well as solo instruments I am not sure they replace anything. But I am grabbing Spitfire first now for shorts and strings on the piano fun. I think they are a cohesive and tight group. Great for the styles you mentioned. I do like the Flautandos! Sounds speak for themselves on these play throughs.

Flautando Spitfire Play thru All Instruments Echoed - Mix A

View attachment Multi - String Quartet Demo Flautando.mp3


Add Teldex

View attachment Multi - String Quartet Demo Flautando Teldex.mp3


And here is a track of Spitfire and 8Dio Deep Solo playing various articulations together.

All

View attachment Multi - String Quartet Demo All.mp3


Spitfire AR 2 Alone

View attachment Multi - String Quartet Demo Spitfire.mp3


8Dio Deep Alone

View attachment Multi - String Quartet Demo 8Dio Deep.mp3



Make sure to check out the shorts of Abbey Road 2 with all mics as well as 8Dio and many others on this thread.






String "Shorts" Comparison Thread


Does the midi use CC11? If so that could be the culprit, as XCSS uses it for the reverb. (That hard coding is the thing I dislike most about XCSS, and it makes sharing midi a bit of a pain.) No it’s all shorts as far as I could tell. I’ll turn off the verb, and see if that helps. Will be...




vi-control.net






And some Abbey Road 2 Violin Bach





__





Ultimate Solo Violin Comparison Thread


Bach Violin Sonata No. 3 in CM for Solo Violin 1005 - Mvmt. 4 Allegro Assai, MM. 1-32 Audio Imperia - Solo - Violin - Default Staccato Audio Imperia - Solo - Violin - Default Legato Embertone - Friedlander Violin - Default Legato Embertone - Joshua Bell - Default Legato




vi-control.net


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## zeng (Dec 26, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Well as solo instruments I am not sure they replace anything. But I am grabbing Spitfire first now for shorts and strings on the piano fun. I think they are a cohesive and tight group. Great for the styles you mentioned. I do like the Flautandos! Sounds speak for themselves on these play throughs.
> 
> Flautando Spitfire Play thru All Instruments Echoed - Mix A
> 
> ...


You are great! Thank you very much for examples and your effort  I really appreciate and am buying AR2  Thanks for your time. Btw they work better together than I thought.


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## Rudianos (Dec 26, 2021)

zeng said:


> You are great! Thank you very much for examples and your effort  I really appreciate and am buying AR2  Thanks for your time. Btw they work better together than I thought.


I love sample libraries - what a time we live in. Enjoy!!!


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## Soundbed (Dec 29, 2021)

(super brief) String Quartet comparison:

CSSS
MSS
AR2IS



• Written with CSSS, so it has the home field advantage.

• Tried to make MSS First Chairs sound vaguely like CSS. (I could make MSS sound better with more effort.)

• Spitfire AR2 was Mix 1, the Pro version with Portamento. I might need to adjust some timing and volume of the AR2 yet. I could also record some different mic presets if folks are interested.

_Disclaimer: I received an NFR for Abbey Road 2 Core / Standard version but then I purchased the "upgrade" to the Pro version at the discount (as if I'd previously purchased core) because I liked it and wanted the advanced features._


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## wilifordmusic (Dec 29, 2021)

Has anyone tried pairing AR2 with LASS?

I think it might be a good match and motivation for me to drop more ducats this year.

Spitfire Audio thanks you in advance if it sounds good.


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## Noeticus (Dec 29, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> (super brief) String Quartet comparison:
> 
> CSSS
> MSS
> ...



This is GREAT!!!

Love the melody as well.

Is the "added" Reverb the same on all of them? That is, if you added any?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 29, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> (super brief) String Quartet comparison:
> 
> CSSS
> MSS
> ...



They all sounded good (though AR2 was much drier than the other two) - but the real question is which one was the easiest to work with and which was the hardest?


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## Soundbed (Dec 29, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> They all sounded good (though AR2 was much drier than the other two) - but the real question is which one was the easiest to work with and which was the hardest?


That’s tricky to answer because each had its challenges. 

I decided to take advantage of different length shorts* in the writing, plus legato, plus let each instrument have its moment, so the challenge with csss was figuring out how to use the four shorts types. My csss time was mostly in the writing which includes the programming because I tend to write to the samples, by habit and intentionally as a practice. 

And then I had to adjust for timing— so the timing in csss had to be moved around. Some of the mod wheel was counterintuitive. And velocities to adjust. The sound wasn’t an issue for the most part. As long as you’re okay with the room and the tone, the sound is pretty easy to work with. 

With MSS the sound was the main challenge because I was really trying to match csss and they don’t exactly have a similar starting point. I could have spent more time. The LASS viola does sound a touch out of place in some ways. I really tried to help it sit in the mix like it was part of MSS. Getting the techniques was easy because I’m familiar with the engine. The balance and mic was most challenging here.

Oh and the timing in MSS is easy with their lookahead feature. 

In fact I wonder what MSS would sound like without trying to make it sound like csss. 

With AR2 setting up the patches took the most time. It’s a carpal tunnel affair to do it the way it did. Not sure if there’s an easier method. I loaded my articulations and set up each articulation with a keyswitch and by this point I was pretty familiar with the piece so choosing the articulations and redoing the mod wheel was relatively easy. I didn’t even try to make it sound like the others so that wasn’t a challenge at all. I think some of the timing might be slightly off because I started with the csss midi and might not have moved the timing back into the beat for every note. 

I could also do this with Berlin first chairs. And Tableau. Oh! It could become a new string quartet comparison thread. (?) But this is the AR2 thread. I’ll try to stay in topic. 

* (I know they are different techniques but in sample world a bounce versus a string staccato versus others…often translated into different lengths.)


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## Soundbed (Dec 29, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> This is GREAT!!!
> 
> Love the melody as well.
> 
> Is the "added" Reverb the same on all of them? That is, if you added any?


Thanks!

No added reverb in AR2.

Reverb in MSS was Fast Hall but I dialed it in differently for different instruments to try matching csss. 

I think csss was the mix mic with no reverb from Kontakt or anywhere else.


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## Calagan (Dec 30, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> (super brief) String Quartet comparison:
> 
> CSSS
> MSS
> AR2IS


You can clearly hear the CSSS at its advantage here... AR2 sounds good, specially that it's completly dry and could be enhanced with some good verb, but you can hear that the midi editing (or the midi melodic line) is not completly coherent with the library (maybe the lenght of notes are the most problematic, I don't know exactly)... This issue may be from trying to match with AR2 something composed with another library.
Another issue to me, that I find quite often in demos of AR2, is the lack of "glue" between players (or lines). It may be the lack of reverb (so it's easily solved with adding some verb), but sometimes I've got the impression that the vibrato in AR2 is the main cause of it : vibrato is quite subtle compared to other libraries (which is good if you are searching for that sound, like me), but it also seems to make the different lines blend in a strange way, like if the vibrato was perfectly identical between violin, viola & cello (an unnatural sameness). I've got impression that subtles differences in timing, sound and vibrato produce the natural glue that happens with real players. Maybe AR2 is too "straight" and focused and thus lacking this "glue" effect. Some people spoke about an organ or bagpipe like sound when played as an ensemble, and maybe it comes from the vibrato. 
It sounds like a subtle chorus FX with different setting for each player could help here (of course it's not exactly going to make it sound more natural, but maybe more "organic")...

Maybe I'm completly wrong, but I'm sure you could comment on my impressions...
By the way, I'm at the verge of buying the pro version of AR2. I like the sound a lot, and I'm thinking the microphones are essentials to make full use of this library (core lacks distant miking, and sometimes the closed miking seems to be quite agressive), but I'm still concerned at some issues (like this lack of glue - maybe some has a better way to explain it).

P.S : I just bought the Spitfire solo violin on impulse (59€), after being impressed by some demos but without checking the forums, and found that the rebow issue is the most annoying stuff I could think of. To me it makes this library unusable if it's not for quick runs (with the added annoyment that the embedded room reverb is huge and will make it difficult to mix with other libraries). I don't want to have the same disapointment with AR2, specially that it will not be 59€ but 399€...


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 30, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> (super brief) String Quartet comparison:
> 
> CSSS
> MSS
> ...



AR2 sounds like they are playing with marcatos, rather than regular playing. Otherwise, they all sound good in their way.


----------



## Soundbed (Dec 30, 2021)

Calagan said:


> You can clearly hear the CSSS at its advantage here... AR2 sounds good, specially that it's completly dry and could be enhanced with some good verb, but you can hear that the midi editing (or the midi melodic line) is not completly coherent with the library (maybe the lenght of notes are the most problematic, I don't know exactly)... This issue may be from trying to match with AR2 something composed with another library.
> Another issue to me, that I find quite often in demos of AR2, is the lack of "glue" between players (or lines). It may be the lack of reverb (so it's easily solved with adding some verb), but sometimes I've got the impression that the vibrato in AR2 is the main cause of it : vibrato is quite subtle compared to other libraries (which is good if you are searching for that sound, like me), but it also seems to make the different lines blend in a strange way, like if the vibrato was perfectly identical between violin, viola & cello (an unnatural sameness). I've got impression that subtles differences in timing, sound and vibrato produce the natural glue that happens with real players. Maybe AR2 is too "straight" and focused and thus lacking this "glue" effect. Some people spoke about an organ or bagpipe like sound when played as an ensemble, and maybe it comes from the vibrato.
> It sounds like a subtle chorus FX with different setting for each player could help here (of course it's not exactly going to make it sound more natural, but maybe more "organic")...
> 
> ...


Good points!

I definitely could work on getting the AR2 parts to gel a bit more… I agree they sound a bit separate. I wrote it in a way to try to “test” for that and I think I can go back and try to make them sound more like they are playing together. 

Yes my string quartet video on spitfire where I wrote a piece (not the Mendelssohn) goes straight to that rebow “issue”. I can’t remember if the longs are a workaround. (?) But it’s a nice set of violins otherwise. 

I find the Spitfire Performance Legato challenging. It seems to present almost as many hurdles as it overcomes. 



dzilizzi said:


> AR2 sounds like they are playing with marcatos, rather than regular playing. Otherwise, they all sound good in their way.


Not sure what you mean exactly. There are a variety of articulations used. Performance legato might be adding a strong attack on some notes (overlay) based on velocity, is that what you mean?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2021)

Calagan said:


> P.S : I just bought the Spitfire solo violin on impulse (59€), after being impressed by some demos but without checking the forums, and found that the rebow issue is the most annoying stuff I could think of. To me it makes this library unusable if it's not for quick runs (with the added annoyment that the embedded room reverb is huge and will make it difficult to mix with other libraries). I don't want to have the same disapointment with AR2, specially that it will not be 59€ but 399€...


The virtuoso violin is not really indicative of the rest of the set of SF’s solo strings. The virtuoso is very much designed as a soloists. The complaints about the fast rebow in the library are common and I do think it odd that SF didn’t offer an infinite bow option since the functionality seems trivial to implement. But in using the solo instruments extensively since they came out I rarely find the rebows to be an issue and frequently find the choices to be inspired. 

I also find that the other SF solo strings (not the virtuoso violin) play together as a cohesive group where the players can seem to be watching each other’s elbows. @ism has much to say about this, and some of it has to do with how the instruments handle vibrato and some with how the instruments respond to arcs created via the modwheel. 

I haven’t made up my mind yet about AR2. They sound great and I see why so many folks like them. But they are distinctive and particular. And I’m not sure if they fit what I want from solo strings. I mean I’m sure I’d use them if I had them. But I don’t yet love the sound.


----------



## Calagan (Dec 30, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I find the Spitfire Performance Legato challenging. It seems to present almost as many hurdles as it overcomes.


What do you mean ? Do you speak of AR2 or the solo violin ?
Do you find any similar issue in AR2 ?


----------



## JohnG (Dec 30, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I’m not sure if they fit what I want from solo strings.


No matter what solo samples, they never really are going to replicate what players can do on many types of music — phrasing, bowing, vibrato — it’s just a lot to ask. I find that if I keep the lines moving a lot it’s more convincing (or if the material static, the flautandos, which sound pretty good).

However, the shorts are So Good and to me make this library worth it!! I use short solo strings quite often to bring out lines in unusual passages, and these are (finally) going to replace some of the excellent shorts in the original EWQLSO library from years ago.

[Note: I have received free products from East West and Spitfire]


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## Trevor Meier (Dec 30, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> In fact I wonder what MSS would sound like without trying to make it sound like csss.


I’d be very interested to hear MSS played to its strengths, especially as you know the library quite well.



Soundbed said:


> I could also do this with Berlin first chairs. And Tableau. Oh! It could become a new string quartet comparison thread. (?) But this is the AR2 thread. I’ll try to stay in topic.


I was going to PM you to ask for the MIDI, but since you’ve suggested it: I think this would be a great comparison thread-starter. I’d like to try this piece out with a dry-ish mix of Spitfire Solo Strings and Samplemodeling’s new 2.0 release.


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2021)

JohnG said:


> No matter what solo samples, they never really are going to replicate what players can do on many types of music — phrasing, bowing, vibrato — it’s just a lot to ask. I find that if I keep the lines moving a lot it’s more convincing (or if the material static, the flautandos, which sound pretty good).
> 
> However, the shorts are So Good and to me make this library worth it!! I use short solo strings quite often to bring out lines in unusual passages, and these are (finally) going to replace some of the excellent shorts in the original EWQLSO library from years ago.
> 
> [Note: I have received free products from East West and Spitfire]


Yes. I’m not expecting miracles! I happen to adore the tone of the SF Solo Strings, and I’m not hearing that in AR2. That’s not necessarily a bad thing though: I am hearing lots of things in AR that are not really in the wheelhouse of the Solo Strings, I’m just not sure I need them. But AR2 also offers a different sound world—and I’m not sure what I think of that yet for my music. Given how I generally get along with SF libraries, I’m sure I’d find I liked it once I had it. 

which shorts have you been using from EWQLSO? There’s so much that is still useful in that library.


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## JohnG (Dec 30, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> which shorts have you been using from EWQLSO?


the solo viola and some others; also LASS shorts are excellent, but I assume you know those


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2021)

JohnG said:


> the solo viola and some others; also LASS shorts are excellent, but I assume you know those


I don't have LASS, oddly enough.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2021)

This thread is bumming me out that I can’t afford ar2 right now which means I really won’t be able to afford it once it’s no longer on intro price. Especially because psychedelic rock/baroque pop acoustic is my forte and these would be perfect for that! Oh well, I’ll wait a year or so. 

They sound so good. But I blew my wad already in 2021 haha. Far too many thousands of $$


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## ism (Dec 30, 2021)

Baronvonheadless said:


> This thread is bumming me out that I can’t afford ar2 right now which means I really won’t be able to afford it once it’s no longer on intro price. Especially because psychedelic rock/baroque pop acoustic is my forte and these would be perfect for that! Oh well, I’ll wait a year or so.
> 
> They sound so good. But I blew my wad already in 2021 haha. Far too many thousands of $$


If it's any consolation, there's evidence that the regular EDU prices on the bundle will be closer to ~1500eur.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2021)

ism said:


> If it's any consolation, there's evidence that the regular EDU prices on the bundle will be closer to ~1500eur.


I think there is a miscommunication here. I’m talking about abbey road 2 for $370 Vs the $500 it will be soon. What bundle are u referring to? Maybe the ark?


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## easyrider (Dec 30, 2021)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I think there is a miscommunication here. I’m talking about abbey road 2 for $370 Vs the $500 it will be soon. What bundle are u referring to? Maybe the ark?


12 months it will be 40% off


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## ism (Dec 30, 2021)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I think there is a miscommunication here. I’m talking about abbey road 2 for $370 Vs the $500 it will be soon. What bundle are u referring to? Maybe the ark?


Sorry - got the threads mixed up!


----------



## easyrider (Dec 30, 2021)

I think at full price the AR2 Pro is expensive for what you get…


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2021)

ism said:


> Sorry - got the threads mixed up!


I figured that’s what it was but it took me a second haha 🤙🏼


----------



## Soundbed (Dec 30, 2021)

Calagan said:


> What do you mean ? Do you speak of AR2 or the solo violin ?
> Do you find any similar issue in AR2 ?


Yeah, I could be more clear ... it's almost an idea forming in my head too, so I'm thinking it through as I type it ... I've spent many hours with Spitfire Performance patches across numerous instruments in their product line (not only AR2).

On the one hand it can be a great convenience while sketching and playing deliberately once you know how it works and you are using it to your advantage — leveraging its strengths.

But...

What I have done too often is: entered or transcribed some notes and set them to get performed by the performance patches.

Too often it comes out a bit garbledy-gook. Accidental trills triggered, shorts overlay from velocities, and some other oddities to "clean up".

It does some stuff really well and saves time from sorting out specific articulations and bowing possibilities.

But on the other hand *it seems like I've taken the "wrong" or "not best" approach* ... I think I need to come to terms with the concept that the Performance patches are designed to get played in and that's the performance you want.

Whereas ... if I write it in one place and then later want a MIDI performance from a Spitfire VI, *it might be better to use the traditional articulation switching techniques*; shorts, longs, legato — however one does them (on different tracks or using articulation switchers). The Performance patches don't really save me time "performing" my already written midi; they take just as much time editing as they do playing what I'd hoped.

Maybe this is perfectly obvious to some, or maybe others have different perspectives, but this is what I'm discovering over time for my uses.



Trevor Meier said:


> I’d be very interested to hear MSS played to its strengths, especially as you know the library quite well.
> 
> 
> I was going to PM you to ask for the MIDI, but since you’ve suggested it: I think this would be a great comparison thread-starter. I’d like to try this piece out with a dry-ish mix of Spitfire Solo Strings and Samplemodeling’s new 2.0 release.


Okay I will start a new thread in the coming ... days? We'll see how excited I get later tonight.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 30, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Not sure what you mean exactly. There are a variety of articulations used. Performance legato might be adding a strong attack on some notes (overlay) based on velocity, is that what you mean?


Yes, I was listening to the marcato in some other strings I have, and it has that same strong attack. I realize it isn't a marcato, but it is similar. And it is probably a sound that you might want in a pop mix.


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## Rudianos (Dec 30, 2021)

I think the intro price with the free Intimate Strings - that is about what such a library should cost. The HD footprint is probably too big for this as well. I do appreciate the level of detail though. Missing some key articulations for the style - I would have traded a mic or 2.


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> I think the intro price with the free Intimate Strings - that is about what such a library should cost. The HD footprint is probably too big for this as well. I do appreciate the level of detail though. Missing some key articulations for the style - I would have traded a mic or 2.


Which articulations would you like to see added?


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## Rudianos (Dec 30, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Which articulations would you like to see added?


Personally I would like to see some Ricochet. Id like to see some Falls and Scoops. Id like to see some kind glissando engine. Seems like useful for modern styles of music. What they have included is pretty darn good. So good its super fun to sit and play with the screen off and just jam.


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## kevinh (Dec 30, 2021)

After struggling trying to decide what to do and Santa being no help even after visiting the mall several times and still no AR2 under my tree, I decided to take the plunge and got core. I have until Jan 6 to decide if I want to stay at core or go pro. I see the price difference of $150 for Pro if anyone is wondering and missed one of the previous posts where this was asked. Can’t remember if it was this thread or not.


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## cedricm (Dec 31, 2021)

Lee Blaske said:


> My first quick trial with AR2. I used the ribbon mic mix for this.



Don't you think it sounds "synthy" from about 30s to 40s and 1:14 to 1:21?


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## zeng (Dec 31, 2021)

cedricm said:


> Don't you think it sounds "synthy" from about 30s to 40s and 1:14 to 1:21?


it sounds very midi to me :/


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## Rudianos (Dec 31, 2021)

zeng said:


> it sounds very midi to me :/


I hear that too, its the playing, needs to work that expression more. It also looks like he is using the ensemble patch with is not legato. Needs to break that up into the individuals.


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## tjr (Dec 31, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I haven’t made up my mind yet about AR2. They sound great and I see why so many folks like them. But they are distinctive and particular. And I’m not sure if they fit what I want from solo strings. I mean I’m sure I’d use them if I had them. But I don’t yet love the sound.


I think that AR2 strings are not even meant to be a general purpose solo strings library. It's a very particular sound. From what I hear in the demonstrations, it does that particular sound very well, probably better than other current options. But then, other libraries do better than AR2 for their respective sounds.

I personally happen to like the AR2 sound; in fact, have desired that sort of tonality for years. It's not something I would use super frequently, but when it's right, it's right.

[Have not yet purchased AR2, but plan to.]


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## galactic orange (Dec 31, 2021)

The demos on the homepage, while very nice, demonstrate the AR2 strings in certain styles. That elegant and nostalgic British style comes through very well. But I’d like to know if it can handle something more upbeat and adventurous like this classic Zelda theme:



The smaller room sounds like AR2 would fit very well. I’m looking at getting core version for now. For those who have purchased either core or pro, does it sound like AR2 could pull off something like this? (I’m pretty sure there are two cellos playing on the track, but that’s not a big deal.)


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## Keano12 (Jan 5, 2022)

Hello all I love the sound of AR2 Iconic strings. Do I really need the pro version? I know it has more mic options. Wondering would they really be used if it is worth saving or going core?


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## tjr (Jan 5, 2022)

Too bad they don't offer JUST the Pro version, without Core. I.e., only portamento.

Could even do a whole extension library of that. Fast portamento, slow portamento, measured portamento. Articulations with portamento lasting a quarter note, a half note, a whole note.


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## jazzman7 (Jan 5, 2022)

Keano12 said:


> Hello all I love the sound of AR2 Iconic strings. Do I really need the pro version? I know it has more mic options. Wondering would they really be used if it is worth saving or going core?


If I go for it I will go Pro. 

The mics add sound shaping options EQ can't deliver. 

The problem for me is they still may not be able to make it versatile enough to get it out of one trick Pony territory. Even tho it does that one trick really well! 

The shorts are killer, but the longs (Mostly in higher registers) have been a bit problematic from what I have heard in demos. I've been pondering this for a month and I'm no more decided now that I was at first! Damn


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## Rudianos (Jan 5, 2022)

jazzman7 said:


> If I go for it I will go Pro.
> 
> The mics add sound shaping options EQ can't deliver.
> 
> ...


Yes yes. I have been spending a lot of time with this library. And I can say that one has got to have the chance to sit down and dig into it. Many tonal possibilities. Even within just the straight performance legato. You can get many tones with how you touch the keyboard. More than other libraries I have, many more. So I think the demos are not really doing it justice. Then of course there is the way that they let the shorts speak no naturally. Ill try to finish a track this week and post.


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## jazzman7 (Jan 5, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Yes yes. I have been spending a lot of time with this library. And I can say that one has got to have the chance to sit down and dig into it. Many tonal possibilities. Even within just the straight performance legato. You can get many tones with how you touch the keyboard. More than other libraries I have, many more. So I think the demos are not really doing it justice. Then of course there is the way that they let the shorts speak no naturally. Ill try to finish a track this week and post.


Thanks bro. Any chance you can get that done in the next couple of hours? We have a deadline here!


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## Rudianos (Jan 5, 2022)

jazzman7 said:


> Thanks bro. Any chance you can get that done in the next couple of hours? We have a deadline here!


Okay here is a lunchbreak cut of Nearer My God to Thee. Won't find a demo of this library like this anywhere LOL. That is an exposed rubato lyrical piece. With the tonal variations I would say the learning curve to mastery is pretty high. Think it will be worth it. 

Mix A - and with me, it is always in Teldex.

Violin I Only

View attachment Violin I.mp3


And a more Intimate Violin II

View attachment Violin II.mp3


And of course remember Bach





__





Ultimate Solo Violin Comparison Thread


Bach Violin Sonata No. 3 in CM for Solo Violin 1005 - Mvmt. 4 Allegro Assai, MM. 1-32 Audio Imperia - Solo - Violin - Default Staccato Audio Imperia - Solo - Violin - Default Legato Embertone - Friedlander Violin - Default Legato Embertone - Joshua Bell - Default Legato




vi-control.net





And the Shorts





__





Ultimate Solo Violin Comparison Thread


Bach Violin Sonata No. 3 in CM for Solo Violin 1005 - Mvmt. 4 Allegro Assai, MM. 1-32 Audio Imperia - Solo - Violin - Default Staccato Audio Imperia - Solo - Violin - Default Legato Embertone - Friedlander Violin - Default Legato Embertone - Joshua Bell - Default Legato




vi-control.net





And Again more shorts






Ultimate Low Shorts Thread


Ultimate Low Shorts - CSS Close+Room+R4 Spicc Ultimate Low Shorts - CSS Close+Room+R4 Staccatissimo Ultimate Low Shorts - CSS Close+Room+R4 Staccato Ultimate Low Shorts - CSS Close+Room+R4 Sfz




vi-control.net


----------



## Rudianos (Jan 5, 2022)

And some Cello play on the performance legato

View attachment SF - Abbey Road II String Quintet - Primo.mp3


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## Keano12 (Jan 5, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> And some Cello play on the performance legato
> 
> View attachment SF - Abbey Road II String Quintet - Primo.mp3


Is this using pro with the other mic configurations?


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## Rudianos (Jan 5, 2022)

Keano12 said:


> Is this using pro with the other mic configurations?


pro MIX A - Altiverb Teldex


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## alcorey (Jan 5, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> And some Cello play on the performance legato
> 
> View attachment SF - Abbey Road II String Quintet - Primo.mp3


@Rudianos - the volume levels on these are extremely low for me, I have to turn my volume way above normal to hear them.......just thought you might like to know


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## Rudianos (Jan 5, 2022)

alcorey said:


> @Rudianos - the volume levels on these are extremely low for me, I have to turn my volume way above normal to hear them.......just thought you might like to know


weird wide wide dynamics on the Cello. But the violin 2 is very very soft intentionally.


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## Rudianos (Jan 5, 2022)

alcorey said:


> @Rudianos - the volume levels on these are extremely low for me, I have to turn my volume way above normal to hear them.......just thought you might like to know


yeah you're right those volume levels are kind of low thanks for the point out


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## galactic orange (Jan 5, 2022)

So, in the final hours and I’m still on the fence considering Core. I really love the arranger features and the basic mixes sound great. I think the playability, close sound, and having this set of instruments recorded in the same space are positives. Some have not taken a liking to the longs and I hear the same thing, but it’s possible these can be tweaked to sound more lively. It’s hard to know without playing with it. It’s been out several weeks so are there any points that one should consider?


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 5, 2022)

So I was eyeing it again just for kicks and…So this is weird, I had a discount on AR2 for $370 but now when I’m logged into my profile it says $399. It’s still in introductory pricing but why did the discount from intimate strings disappear?


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## MusiquedeReve (Jan 5, 2022)

Ughhh intro pricing ends tomorrow

Decisions, decisions...


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## galactic orange (Jan 5, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> So I was eyeing it again just for kicks and…So this is weird, I had a discount on AR2 for $370 but now when I’m logged into my profile it says $399. It’s still in introductory pricing but why did the discount from intimate strings disappear?


And I don’t see the 25% off discount for Intimate Strings owners on either the Core or Pro product page anymore. Removing that deal early before the intro period has finished takes away considerable motivation for buying now vs. waiting for the next sale. I think that decides it.

Edit: Had Intimate Strings in my cart ready to purchase too.


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## Rudianos (Jan 5, 2022)

Just email them they will take care of it.






Spitfire Audio — Abbey Road Two


The most famous string soundA history like no other. Abbey Road Two: Iconic Strings represents something truly unique - a landmark, one-off sample library consisting of a signature string sound never before available. Captured at Abbey Road’s Studio Two, the most famous recording venue in the...



www.spitfireaudio.com





INFORMATION ABOUT THE ORIGINAL INTIMATE STRINGS DISCOUNT​Originals: Intimate Strings owners are eligible for 25% off RRP. You must *own *Originals: Intimate Strings, and be logged in to see the available savings. This promotion ends on 6th January 2022.


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## MelodicAdagio (Jan 5, 2022)

I was really on the fence about this one. I didn't want Core if I got the library, as the extra mics in Pro make a definite difference in the shape of the sound, based on the Spitfire walkthrough and the examples I've heard. But Pro is, of course, pricier.

Although I like the AR2 sound, it's a distinctive sound that's not your everyday string quintet, so it inherently will have some limitations on how often it's used. On the other hand, the distinctive sound is itself a sound that I can foresee making some use of, even if only now and then. And I'd love the opportunity to play with it.

In the end, I managed to free up about 300 GB of sample drive space that I was concerned about and with the clock ticking down on the 25% off offer I qualify for, I decided to get AR2 Pro. It's downloading now.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 5, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Just email them they will take care of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m logged in but it is not discounted anymore. If you purchase it for $399 and email them after the fact will they reimburse the $30?


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## tjr (Jan 5, 2022)

galactic orange said:


> And I don’t see the 25% off discount for Intimate Strings owners on either the Core or Pro product page anymore. Removing that deal early before the intro period has finished takes away considerable motivation for buying now vs. waiting for the next sale. I think that decides it.
> 
> Edit: Had Intimate Strings in my cart ready to purchase too.


Yikes! Admittedly I was waiting until the last minute, but I expected to still have that last minute...


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## Rudianos (Jan 5, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I’m logged in but it is not discounted anymore. If you purchase it for $399 and email them after the fact will they reimburse the $30?


what I see on there is that the sixth is the last day so maybe you can email them ahead of time can't say for certain what they're going to do. but they're not the firm to disregard their offers.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jan 5, 2022)

MelodicAdagio said:


> I was really on the fence about this one. I didn't want Core if I got the library, as the extra mics in Pro make a definite difference in the shape of the sound, based on the Spitfire walkthrough and the examples I've heard. But Pro is, of course, pricier.
> 
> Although I like the AR2 sound, it's a distinctive sound that's not your everyday string quintet, so it inherently will have some limitations on how often it's used. On the other hand, the distinctive sound is itself a sound that I can foresee making some use of, even if only now and then. And I'd love the opportunity to play with it.
> 
> In the end, I managed to free up about 300 GB of sample drive space that I was concerned about and with the clock ticking down on the 25% off offer I qualify for, I decided to get AR2 Pro. It's downloading now.


Very nice - I like your thought process 

Sometimes, getting the library is enough inspiration itself to validate the purchase


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## galactic orange (Jan 5, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> what I see on there is that the sixth is the last day so maybe you can email them ahead of time can't say for certain what they're going to do. but they're not the firm to disregard their offers.


I have submitted a ticket.


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## galactic orange (Jan 5, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> INFORMATION ABOUT THE ORIGINAL INTIMATE STRINGS DISCOUNT​Originals: Intimate Strings owners are eligible for 25% off RRP. You must *own *Originals: Intimate Strings, and be logged in to see the available savings. This promotion ends on 6th January 2022.


I suppose it’s already 6th January so they have the right to end the deal anytime they like. In that case, I find it strange that the AR2 deal is still running, but the associated Intimate Strings discount would be taken down at a different timing.


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## Rudianos (Jan 5, 2022)

galactic orange said:


> I have submitted a ticket.


keep us posted they probably just absent-mindedly switched it up. 🤞🤞🤞


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## galactic orange (Jan 5, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> keep us posted they probably just absent-mindedly switched it up. 🤞🤞🤞


I will certainly bring any updates here. However, it’s still the wee wee hours of the morning at Spitfire HQ so it’s not likely they’ll reply right away.


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Jan 5, 2022)

galactic orange said:


> I will certainly bring any updates here. However, it’s still the wee wee hours of the morning at Spitfire HQ so it’s not likely they’ll reply right away.


Christian and Paul are in their sleeping caps with visions of extending the sale dancing in their heads


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 5, 2022)

So the thing I’m concerned about too is that I filled the ticket now. However by the time they get and reply to it I’m sure the price will be full price on the website so I don’t think they’d make an exception would they?


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## Rudianos (Jan 5, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> So the thing I’m concerned about too is that I filled the ticket now. However by the time they get and reply to it I’m sure the price will be full price on the website so I don’t think they’d make an exception would they?


well however you feel best. You can play it either way. They either extend the sale for you, and others considering they ended part of it early. Or you buy and get credit upon request. Either way that is where customer service comes to play. If they didn't fix it for you that would be the last time I buy from them. They strike me as fair though. Personally I would buy and have them fix it after.


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Jan 5, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> well however you feel best. You can play it either way. They either extend the sale for you, and others considering they ended part of it early. Or you buy and get credit upon request. Either way that is where customer service comes to play. If they didn't fix it for you that would be the last time I buy from them. They strike me as fair though. Personally I would buy and have them fix it after.


Exactly - it would not be a good look for them if they did not honor it


----------



## dzilizzi (Jan 5, 2022)

I just checked and I'm still showing the 25% off offer. Los Angeles area. I think I will wait until next year though. I'm all strung out for now. 

I did check and I am signed in and got Intimate Strings free when they came out because I have Albion 2 - I think that's what got me it.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 5, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> I just checked and I'm still showing the 25% off offer. Los Angeles area. I think I will wait until next year though. I'm all strung out for now.
> 
> I did check and I am signed in and got Intimate Strings free when they came out because I have Albion 2 - I think that's what got me it.


I have intimate strings and since ar2 came out my price was $370 but for some reason when I checked around 9pm eastern time my price had changed to $399. 

Hmm


----------



## jazzman7 (Jan 5, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I have intimate strings and since ar2 came out my price was $370 but for some reason when I checked around 9pm eastern time my price had changed to $399.
> 
> Hmm


It looks like the Intimate strings offer might have ended early. No reference to it now. O well. I bought them both anyway. Decided the GAS was gonna win this one!


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Jan 5, 2022)

I just took this screenshot at 1:13am EST


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## jazzman7 (Jan 5, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Okay here is a lunchbreak cut of Nearer My God to Thee. Won't find a demo of this library like this anywhere LOL. That is an exposed rubato lyrical piece. With the tonal variations I would say the learning curve to mastery is pretty high. Think it will be worth it.
> 
> Mix A - and with me, it is always in Teldex.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your generosity with your time and effort! Well, I did it. I kinda knew I was for a while but...The wallet and the GAS had to finish the fight! Guess the GAS won. Again! AR2 Pro and Intimate strings ready to download. hoo boy


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## jazzman7 (Jan 5, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> I just took this screenshot at 1:13am EST


I noticed the earlier text reference to int strings is gone, even tho this is still up


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## MusiquedeReve (Jan 5, 2022)

jazzman7 said:


> I noticed the earlier text reference to int strings is gone, even tho this is still up


Eagle eye!!! Good catch


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## jazzman7 (Jan 5, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> Eagle eye!!! Good catch


Ha..My wallet saw it first!


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## jazzman7 (Jan 5, 2022)

With my wallets luck, Jasper will probably come out with PACIFIC tomorrow


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## galactic orange (Jan 6, 2022)

Update: Received a reply and was told that unfortunately I was too late and that “the whole promotion is in the process of being turned off today, including that extra perk.”

I didn’t realize the two products and their discount timings were entirely unrelated. Perhaps a timer for the perk is needed. I thought the perk would survive more than a couple of hours into the dreadful Jan. 6th apocalypse.


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## MtB1 (Jan 6, 2022)

I don't know what they are doing there at spitfire audio with these announcements, but in the morning the discount also did not show up in my account as others mentioned as well. But when I returned just few minutes ago it was there again.


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## jbuhler (Jan 6, 2022)

I mean, their emails did say that the sale, including the discount, ends on Thursday, which usually means end of the day however they define it. I would guess there was a mistake on the coding of the intimate strings discount but I think it’s weird support would respond the way they did to @galactic orange. In any case the price on the website is back to reflecting the discount for me.


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## Rudianos (Jan 6, 2022)

So weird still getting $370. Reminder buy Intimate strings first. Then discount automatic. That was the order that worked for me before.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 6, 2022)

So I just received this reply to my ticket

“
Hi Michael, 

Please re attempt purchase we have had some issues with this but this has been resolved now. 
Warmest,
Shanice”

It’s at $370 again for me


----------



## Rudianos (Jan 6, 2022)

galactic orange said:


> Update: Received a reply and was told that unfortunately I was too late and that “the whole promotion is in the process of being turned off today, including that extra perk.”
> 
> I didn’t realize the two products and their discount timings were entirely unrelated. Perhaps a timer for the perk is needed. I thought the perk would survive more than a couple of hours into the dreadful Jan. 6th apocalypse.





Baronvonheadless said:


> So I just received this reply to my ticket
> 
> “
> Hi Michael,
> ...




Good to hear. Now why are your two experiences vastly different? What a world. Enjoy the sounds!


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 6, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Good to hear. Now why are your two experiences vastly different? What a world. Enjoy the sounds!


Good question. I’m not sure. That’s a drag for him tho. :/


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## dzilizzi (Jan 6, 2022)

@galactic orange was probably the first to complain. By the time @Baronvonheadless complained, they knew there was a problem based on the number of complaints, not a glitch for a single account, and fixed it because they were going to lose more than one sale.....


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 6, 2022)

I am a mover and a shaker. I am the dream maker. 

Get abbey road 2 still on discount for a limited time, thanks to your boy! 🤙🏼

😎


----------



## Soundbed (Jan 6, 2022)

Okay I just recorded my whirlwind tour.

I go over all my favorite and least favorite aspects, and what I learned along the way. I received an NFR for the Core package but I paid to upgrade to the Pro version. The video shows many of the reasons the Pro version is for composers like me.


----------



## alcorey (Jan 6, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Okay I just recorded my whirlwind tour.
> 
> I go over all my favorite and least favorite aspects, and what I learned along the way. I received an NFR for the Core package but I paid to upgrade to the Pro version. The video shows many of the reasons the Pro version is for composers like me.



Hi Nathan,
Just thought I'd mention that I have my volume up Louder than I usually have it and I'm having trouble hearing some of your dialog. The AR2 library sounds are a bit louder in relation. Not sure if that's easily fixable now for this video, but you may want to double check this in the future. Just trying to be helpful


----------



## Soundbed (Jan 6, 2022)

alcorey said:


> Hi Nathan,
> Just thought I'd mention that I have my volume up Louder than I usually have it and I'm having trouble hearing some of your dialog. The AR2 library sounds are a bit louder in relation. Not sure if that's easily fixable now for this video, but you may want to double check this in the future. Just trying to be helpful


Apologies, this was due to rushing it out the door.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 6, 2022)

galactic orange said:


> Update: Received a reply and was told that unfortunately I was too late and that “the whole promotion is in the process of being turned off today, including that extra perk.”
> 
> I didn’t realize the two products and their discount timings were entirely unrelated. Perhaps a timer for the perk is needed. I thought the perk would survive more than a couple of hours into the dreadful Jan. 6th apocalypse.


any change for you? It still says the intro price is up and will end tonight and is still (corrected) at $370. 

Hope you are able to get it!


----------



## galactic orange (Jan 6, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> So I just received this reply to my ticket
> 
> “
> Hi Michael,
> ...


If I purchase Intimate Strings now, do you think the discount will apply?


----------



## Rudianos (Jan 6, 2022)

galactic orange said:


> If I purchase Intimate Strings now, do you think the discount will apply?


I think so. All evidence suggests its still active


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 6, 2022)

Ah yes, I thought you already owned it. I own it but never use intimate strings, I suppose it's worth having. I guess you'd basically be paying $400 anyways.


----------



## Rudianos (Jan 6, 2022)

I think Intimate - if I have little else to select from - would be quite capable. That is with some shorts and tone. Going to spend more time with it and see what can be done. Was a really nice gesture with the Intro price


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 6, 2022)

Wow - What a breath-taking library (AR2 pro)


----------



## labyrinths (Jan 6, 2022)

At this point, I own quite a few Spitfire libraries, and the quality of this one still kind of blew me away when I sat down to play. It just sounds absolutely incredible from a production standpoint. I'm really loving Mix 2 in the Professional package. I don't own AROOF (...yet?), and now I've got to restrain myself from pulling the trigger on the collection. I'm really trying to wait for the modular orchestra.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 6, 2022)

AROOF is great and all, but at the moment, I think AR2 blows it out of the water, production wise. Just...wow.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 6, 2022)

labyrinths said:


> At this point, I own quite a few Spitfire libraries, and the quality of this one still kind of blew me away when I sat down to play. It just sounds absolutely incredible from a production standpoint. I'm really loving Mix 2 in the Professional package. I don't own AROOF (...yet?), and now I've got to restrain myself from pulling the trigger on the collection. I'm really trying to wait for the modular orchestra.


AR2 is not very comparable to AROOF - different instruments, different section sizes, totally different rooms, different aesthetic it is recorded based on, very different purposes. Both feature Spitfire's improved dynamic range sampling and scripting (legatos in the AROOF selections).


----------



## jazzman7 (Jan 6, 2022)

I got it downloaded and really wanted to go to bed. I wound up just playing it for 45 mins. Wow.

Today I added them to a Rock Trak for a client. Gotta watch those longs on the upper reg, but those shorts! Sounds like Sir George Martin paid a quick visit. Couldn't be happier. This is a unique VI. 

I am now the Walrus!


----------



## galactic orange (Jan 6, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Ah yes, I thought you already owned it. I own it but never use intimate strings, I suppose it's worth having. I guess you'd basically be paying $400 anyways.





Rudianos said:


> I think Intimate - if I have little else to select from - would be quite capable. That is with some shorts and tone. Going to spend more time with it and see what can be done. Was a really nice gesture with the Intro price


Well, I took a chance and got Intimate Strings then checked my wishlist for the AR2 Iconic Strings price. Lo and behold the discount was available so I snagged AR2 IS core right away! Unfortunately I won’t have time to try it out before the sale ends so I’ll upgrade to Pro in the next sale if it feels like a good fit. My wallet is hurting now.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 6, 2022)

Here's my first test with them so far, still digging into the library and haven't even tried each patch yet haha. Sounds so killer!

(I did notice - not here - that im getting some weird extra notes in the performance legato/port legato on violin 2, I'll check the other strings later and give an example later. Gotta get off the computer for awhile haha)


View attachment AR2 First String Test .mp3


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 6, 2022)

Ok, here are the two issues I've noticed on the violins. Weird. I'm using the Close Vintage Mic only.

On Violin 1 there's a weird volume jump (I'm not touching the dynamic or expression) in the portamento.
View attachment weird violin 1 jump.mp3


& then in Violin 2, portamento is triggering weird notes an octave lower. I play the slur legato to show the difference, but I'm just walking up the notes step by step, and it jumps down an octave on portamento. Anyone else using the library getting this weirdness?


View attachment weird violin 2 artifact .mp3


(This happens when I use portamento in the performance legato patch & the portamento patch by itself)


Edit: SO FAR this is only happening on the CL Vintage Mic (sucks because so far its my favorite mic)


----------



## Rudianos (Jan 6, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Ok, here are the two issues I've noticed on the violins. Weird. I'm using the Close Vintage Mic only.
> 
> On Violin 1 there's a weird volume jump (I'm not touching the dynamic or expression) in the portamento.
> View attachment weird violin 1 jump.mp3
> ...



Violin 1 volume on middle EFG does pop out for me too more than surrounding notes - even minimum volume.

Violin 2 - I worked it chromatically up and down and have not found an issue in MIX A ... but is close vintage there is that same issue! We got to get over to spitfire


----------



## NYC Composer (Jan 6, 2022)

audio1 said:


> On group vocals we use to switch spots and take a step back from the mic. Same with hand claps. On strings, horn and even GTR ODs we would often move the close and room mics around to capture a different "space" in the room. It was like playing with the density in the room, but ultimately same player/singer was the key to a thick sound. We also use to vari-speed the 24trk down a smidge on some ODs. Sort like ADT, but a second pass slightly detuned. That treatment on rock gtrs was too cool.


Our technique was essentially to have everyone sing the same part, triple track that, move on to another part, triple track that, etc...then divide into separate parts (switching parts between singers each time) and triple track THAT...then bounce all of that onto tracks with, say, part one two and three each bounced to stereo tracks then the separated parts track bounced to stereo as well. End result 8 tracks with a lot of thickening possibilities. This was on a 24 track machine. Thank god for Dolby.


----------



## Rudianos (Jan 6, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Ok, here are the two issues I've noticed on the violins. Weird. I'm using the Close Vintage Mic only.
> 
> 
> Edit: SO FAR this is only happening on the CL Vintage Mic (sucks because so far its my favorite mic)



Violin I close vintage port volume issue - no mod wheel all just steady weight fingers

View attachment Violin I C and Up.mp3


Violin II close vintage port pitch issues playing scale G and up ... C seems to cut down

View attachment Violin II G and Up.mp3



Filling a ticket as we speak.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 6, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Violin I close vintage port volume issue - no mod wheel all just steady weight fingers
> 
> View attachment Violin I C and Up.mp3
> 
> ...


Glad I'm not alone. Not a big deal, but yeah...let me know what they say/do.
I gotta get some rest and get off the computer.

Did I mention how gorgeous this library is though? That Flautando....sheesh


View attachment ar2 laura.mp3


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 6, 2022)

It’s such a weird memory but AR2 reminds me of the string sound from Hansel and Gretel fairy tale theater. Which has always been in the back of my mind I guess? Cuz as soon as I started playing around with the library I visualized this.


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## Rudianos (Jan 6, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> It’s such a weird memory but AR2 reminds me of the string sound from Hansel and Gretel fairy tale theater. Which has always been in the back of my mind I guess? Cuz as soon as I started playing around with the library I visualized this.



I hear it!


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## Rudianos (Jan 6, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Glad I'm not alone. Not a big deal, but yeah...let me know what they say/do.
> I gotta get some rest and get off the computer.
> 
> Did I mention how gorgeous this library is though? That Flautando....sheesh
> ...


thats ummm just uhhh beyond words. Thank you!


----------



## chrisav (Jan 7, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Did I mention how gorgeous this library is though? That Flautando....sheesh
> 
> 
> View attachment ar2 laura.mp3


FIRE. WALK. WITH. ME.


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## Wagnersliszt (Jan 7, 2022)

MaxOctane said:


> I'm a string quartet junkie (in real life) and will almost definitely buy this, but I hate the fact that you're probably right. Even the Sacconi demos were great several years ago, but then the library had _all kinds of problems _(major volume differences, inconsistent stereo fields and instrument placement, and more).
> 
> I insta-bought Spitfire Solo Strings and barely touch them. The dynamics are so overpowering at all levels.
> 
> ...


I think there's a set based on the Cremona somewhere if you're really into string quartets.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 7, 2022)

Yup, I love this fucking Library. Finished the piece I was working on yesterday and added vocals to it. It's a quintet version of my bands song 'Schizo Radio' in the vein of 60s baroque pop. Normally the song is in the vein of 80s post punk/surf rock.


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## jazzman7 (Jan 7, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Yup, I love this fucking Library. Finished the piece I was working on yesterday and added vocals to it. It's a quintet version of my bands song 'Schizo Radio' in the vein of 60s baroque pop. Normally the song is in the vein of 80s post punk/surf rock.



Well done, Baron! This is a badass library...Great job!


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## easyrider (Jan 7, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Yup, I love this fucking Library. Finished the piece I was working on yesterday and added vocals to it. It's a quintet version of my bands song 'Schizo Radio' in the vein of 60s baroque pop. Normally the song is in the vein of 80s post punk/surf rock.



Thought you were broke? 😜


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## jazzman7 (Jan 7, 2022)

easyrider said:


> Thought you were broke? 😜


He may be now!


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## Rudianos (Jan 7, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Yup, I love this fucking Library. Finished the piece I was working on yesterday and added vocals to it. It's a quintet version of my bands song 'Schizo Radio' in the vein of 60s baroque pop. Normally the song is in the vein of 80s post punk/surf rock.



it's such an alive library - glad you are enjoying. Thanks for the post


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 7, 2022)

^^thanks all. I am haha. Not sure how I’ll pay for the rest yet. Doing pay in 4. Anyone in need of any mixing or mastering hit me up haha!


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## Trace (Jan 7, 2022)

Keano12 said:


> Hello all I love the sound of AR2 Iconic strings. Do I really need the pro version? I know it has more mic options. Wondering would they really be used if it is worth saving or going core?


Personally, in the projects where I am currently implementing AR2, I only use the pro mic options.


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## biomuse (Jan 8, 2022)

Went in on the pro version. Adoring the sound. The legato is generally well implemented (the idea of velocity as a proxy for melodic intention is a smart one, nicely executed) - but see below. Also great, something that hasn’t been mentioned too much but that is a big deal is the number of round robins available, in the legato patches as well as the shorts, plus the ability to add more with neighbor RR - really important for rhythmic writing and so very welcome. 

Gripes: there are a couple. The selection of articulations is very nice. But you can’t tie into alternate articulations with a legato transition which, at this price point and in a proprietary player, is a bit disappointing. 

Equally, the inability to add (EQ’d or IR’d) legato transitions from the legato patch to, for example, the sul tasto and flautando patches is disappointing. This is something that the Sine Player libs allow and I think at this point it’s just doing the sample collection basic justice. There’s something very 2010’s about this assumption that any technique that isn’t “normal“ legato is somehow exempt from the expectation that the user be able to build a plausible solo performance from it. “Sul tasto” doesn’t automatically = I want to abandon the illusion that i.e. a solo violin patch is mean to represent a single, coherent instrument performance and instead intend to plonk ensemble-style. I guess this very sensible option in Sine has raised the expectation bar on this in first-tier libraries for me.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 8, 2022)

Working on my second piece with Abbey Road 2. Any thoughts on this mock up? Can't tell if I'm hitting a wall or if it sounds good. Sometimes writing for strings that are exposed like this can be very challenging, especially for a non string player. Any constructive criticism welcome! Cheers


View attachment A Quiet Mind .mp3


----------



## Calagan (Jan 9, 2022)

Trace said:


> Personally, in the projects where I am currently implementing AR2, I only use the pro mic options.


I finally bought the pro version too, and after 3 days of downloading, I found too that the pro mic options are MUCH better than the Core ones. I find the Mix 1 very agressive, and the vintage mixes/mic options occupy a very tiny genre space. But the other mics are amazing. AR2 has a great tone and is actually more versatile than what I was thinking...


----------



## Calagan (Jan 9, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Working on my second piece with Abbey Road 2. Any thoughts on this mock up? Can't tell if I'm hitting a wall or if it sounds good. Sometimes writing for strings that are exposed like this can be very challenging, especially for a non string player. Any constructive criticism welcome! Cheers
> 
> 
> View attachment A Quiet Mind .mp3


This is nice stuff. I think it's maybe a bit too dry, and the strings may be too exposed (they are a bit too front of the mix - maybe different mic options could help). But I don't think it can be much better. These strings are amazing, and I was surprised to find they sound quite natural compared to many challengers, but I think it's still musically sterile, like all the solo strings are, so you need to manage to make them less exposed or maybe blur them with some unnatural FXs.
Maybe layering with some flautando or more fragile articulation (with distant miking) could help, maybe some CC11/CC1 edition could add some "humanity"...


----------



## gamma-ut (Jan 9, 2022)

I'm not sure what "sterile" means in this context.

If you're using strings like these, you are making an arrangement decision that says "these are in your face" and in that context they sound fine and pretty live, which though I haven't bought AR2 is readily apparent in the various demos. 

However, there are a couple of what are for me uncanny-valley moments towards the end, with the portamento transitions in particular. I honestly can't work out whether they should be longer portas, fingered legato or not legato at all. It may be there's something that isn't sitting well rhythmically and it's making them stand out as unnatural or if it's in the transitions themselves.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 9, 2022)

Calagan said:


> This is nice stuff. I think it's maybe a bit too dry, and the strings may be too exposed (they are a bit too front of the mix - maybe different mic options could help). But I don't think it can be much better. These strings are amazing, and I was surprised to find they sound quite natural compared to many challengers, but I think it's still musically sterile, like all the solo strings are, so you need to manage to make them less exposed or maybe blur them with some unnatural FXs.
> Maybe layering with some flautando or more fragile articulation (with distant miking) could help, maybe some CC11/CC1 edition could add some "humanity"...


Appreciate the feedback. But yeah I am definitely going for the dry in your face sound here. I love the vintage close mics and ribbon close mics. And feel they are the strength of this library. I love the hard auto panning of the close mics too. Gives it that 60s beatle stereo pan on point. 

I ran it thru the plugins reverb as well but it’s still pretty dry even in the hall setting. But had to change a few mics and mix a bit differently because there were some things bothering me about the levels. I’ve got a new version, extended with vocals that I’ll share and see if it’s sitting any better.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 9, 2022)

gamma-ut said:


> I'm not sure what "sterile" means in this context.
> 
> If you're using strings like these, you are making an arrangement decision that says "these are in your face" and in that context they sound fine and pretty live, which though I haven't bought AR2 is readily apparent in the various demos.
> 
> However, there are a couple of what are for me uncanny-valley moments towards the end, with the portamento transitions in particular. I honestly can't work out whether they should be longer portas, fingered legato or not legato at all. It may be there's something that isn't sitting well rhythmically and it's making them stand out as unnatural or if it's in the transitions themselves.


Thank you for your input as well, are there specific moments that you could time stamp for me? Like I said above I did some re mixing and mic tweaking but kept it dry and I think that helped. The viola carried the main legato line so I made it louder and turned the violin legato line down because it’s carrying the deviating harmony. When it was louder it was distracting. 

It’s tricky because the port is still a little short. I wish u could change the port time in this library to make it just a bit more ‘weepy’


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 9, 2022)

Ok here's the new mix/tweak/extension. Curious if any of the issues have been addressed?

I'm personally much happier with this take.

(Rough vocal melody sketch, no actual lyrics yet)


View attachment A Quiet Mind Rough .mp3


----------



## muziksculp (Jan 9, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Ok here's the new mix/tweak/extension. Curious if any of the issues have been addressed?
> 
> I'm personally much happier with this take.
> 
> ...


Much better than the previous version. Without the frequent use of portamentos, especially during the Outro section.

Some of the repeated stacc. 1/8th notes that begin around 2:33 are a bit too uniform, so have that machine gun effect, maybe some more velocity variations, or whatever can be done to give them more of a sonic variety every time they are played would be another improvement. Also a bit of a Rubato feel, via tempo variation would be a nice touch. 

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 9, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Much better than the previous version. Without the frequent use of portamentos, especially during the Outro section.
> 
> Some of the repeated stacc. 1/8th notes that begin around 2:33 are a bit too uniform, so have that machine gun effect, maybe some more velocity variations, or whatever can be done to give them more of a sonic variety every time they are played would be another improvement. Also a bit of a Rubato feel, via tempo variation would be a nice touch.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.


Thank you so much! Yeah this is great feedback. I’ll check if I had quantized them or not. Perhaps leaving them raw will help. Although I never hard quantize. Cheers
🤙🏼


----------



## muziksculp (Jan 9, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Thank you so much! Yeah this is great feedback. I’ll check if I had quantized them or not. Perhaps leaving them raw will help. Although I never hard quantize. Cheers
> 🤙🏼


It's not the quantization that I'm referring to, it's the way the notes sound imho. are a bit too alike (kind of copy pasted), i.e. when a violinist is playing 1/8th stacc. notes, each one will sound a bit different, have a different color, or attack characteristic of the bow, due to pressure, speed, angle of bow, ..etc. it's not natural that each bow sounds exactly like the next one. So, timbral color variations is important, plus a bit of timing humanization.


----------



## muziksculp (Jan 9, 2022)

I came across this video showing AR2 IS. playing the violin solo from the Lord of The Rings 'Concerning Hobbits' Theme, also used are the AR2 IS Viola, Cello, and DB. 

It sounds very good for this type of sound to my ears.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 9, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> It's not the quantization that I'm referring to, it's the way the notes sound imho. are a bit too alike (kind of copy pasted), i.e. when a violinist is playing 1/8th stacc. notes, each one will sound a bit different, have a different color, or attack characteristic of the bow, due to pressure, speed, angle of bow, ..etc. it's not natural that each bow sounds exactly like the next one. So, timbral color variations is important, plus a bit of timing humanization.


Ah right on. It’s weird because I figured the 6 round robins would prevent that.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 9, 2022)

^^Ok so you can do a lot of sculpting the shorts round robins apparently. Never really tweaked spitfire round robins before. I switched it to (neighboring zones not 100% sure what that means, I'll read the manual eventually haha.) & then changed the bowing pattern to up 1 down 1 so its constantly moving, and tweaked a bit of velocity, and it sounds ALOT better.


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## muziksculp (Jan 9, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> ^^Ok so you can do a lot of sculpting the shorts round robins apparently. Never really tweaked spitfire round robins before. I switched it to (neighboring zones not 100% sure what that means, I'll read the manual eventually haha.) & then changed the bowing pattern to up 1 down 1 so its constantly moving, and tweaked a bit of velocity, and it sounds ALOT better.


Wonderful ! 

I have the library, but haven't touched it yet, so I appreciate what you are doing. Any additional feedback would be great. I will begin messing around with it next week.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 9, 2022)

Alright my friends, wrote some lyrics, fixed the round robins, and re-recorded the vocals. What do y'all think? This library rules, some serious John Cale/George Martin/Bowie production value vibes IMO regarding the string sounds in the hands of a pop artist. I haven't even tried to do any traditional scoring or media scoring yet...every time I play these strings songs pop out..it's amazing.


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## wunderflo (Jan 9, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Alright my friends, wrote some lyrics, fixed the round robins, and re-recorded the vocals. What do y'all think? This library rules, some serious John Cale/George Martin/Bowie production value vibes IMO regarding the string sounds in the hands of a pop artist. I haven't even tried to do any traditional scoring or media scoring yet...every time I play these strings songs pop out..it's amazing.



wow, just wow. You really made it worth the purchase for you!


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## Alchemedia (Jan 9, 2022)

Bravo Michael!


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## muziksculp (Jan 9, 2022)

Hi @Baronvonheadless ,

'A Quiet Mind' the last one you posted above, sounds Very Nice, and a big improvement in the way the strings sound, especially the shorts, much more variety, and realism. You are getting to know these strings better now. Thanks for sharing.  

imho. these strings can be used for many applications, pop, scoring, tensions scenes, adding definition to ensembles, .etc. Also getting creative in how to mix them into a track can make them very flexible. They don't have to sound the way they do out of the box, they can be manipulated quite a bit in the mix if needed, i.e. to be less up front sounding. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Rudianos (Jan 9, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Alright my friends, wrote some lyrics, fixed the round robins, and re-recorded the vocals. What do y'all think? This library rules, some serious John Cale/George Martin/Bowie production value vibes IMO regarding the string sounds in the hands of a pop artist. I haven't even tried to do any traditional scoring or media scoring yet...every time I play these strings songs pop out..it's amazing.



Its really starting to reach out of the page and draw me in. Good work with this library and thanks for posting your strategies. So much potential in this library.


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## tjr (Jan 9, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Alright my friends, wrote some lyrics, fixed the round robins, and re-recorded the vocals. What do y'all think? This library rules, some serious John Cale/George Martin/Bowie production value vibes IMO regarding the string sounds in the hands of a pop artist. I haven't even tried to do any traditional scoring or media scoring yet...every time I play these strings songs pop out..it's amazing.



This makes me want to buy the library more than any other demos I've heard. Alas, I was too on the fence, will wait for next sale now... I suppose


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## zeng (Jan 9, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Ah right on. It’s weird because I figured the 6 round robins would prevent that.


Isn't 6 RR low for this kind of library? ($500)


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 9, 2022)

tjr said:


> This makes me want to buy the library more than any other demos I've heard. Alas, I was too on the fence, will wait for next sale now... I suppose


Thank you so much! Yeah honestly I’m surprised on how little the shorts are in the official demos and how most of the pieces were more on the sad droney, soundscape side. Because this library is ALIVE not cold and really capable. Versatile.

Maybe they were trying to avoid doing stuff too similar to Eleanor rigby as to not be viewed as a one trick pony? Regardless, if you lean into that vibe and do something new with it…it’s just amazing.


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## ism (Jan 10, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Alright my friends, wrote some lyrics, fixed the round robins, and re-recorded the vocals. What do y'all think? This library rules, some serious John Cale/George Martin/Bowie production value vibes IMO regarding the string sounds in the hands of a pop artist. I haven't even tried to do any traditional scoring or media scoring yet...every time I play these strings songs pop out..it's amazing.



That's wonderful. And your spelunking for musicality in the library has been a joy to behold also. 

What's really striking here is how the texture of the vocals somehow ... interacts with? ... enhances? ... emphasizes? ... counterpoints? ... or something ... the textures and timbres of the strings.


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## MelodicAdagio (Jan 10, 2022)

I've had the Pro version of AR2 for several days now and I've got to say that this is definitely one of Spitfire's very best efforts. It's highly satisfying to play around with. To get the most out of it, you really need the multiple mic positions that come with Pro. The Core version would be much more limiting in terms of sound shaping.

For instance, while the mix mics are OK, I've gotten some really nice results with a combination of the LCR2, close ribbon, stereo ribbon and ambient mics--all tweaked to varying degrees. It offers more room depth and a silkier sound. But with a different setup, you can certainly get a right-in-your-face, more aggressive sound, or something somewhere in between, depending on what you're going after and what the music calls for.

I've got quite a few Spitfire libraries. There are a couple that I regret purchasing and wish I hadn't spent the money on. Suffice it say, this is not one of them. I think that Spitfire hit it out of the park with this one. It's not a complete substitute for more conventional libraries of this sort, of course, but it definitely has its place.


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## jazzman7 (Jan 10, 2022)

MelodicAdagio said:


> _I've gotten some really nice results with a combination of the LCR2, close ribbon, stereo ribbon and ambient mics--all tweaked to varying degrees_


Tell, Tell!  I understand if you don't have time or want it to be a bit proprietary, but
I have it myself and I'm exploring it. It's been very useful in several widely different ways without much work, but I'm Always curious to hear how others tweak it.


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## MelodicAdagio (Jan 10, 2022)

jazzman7 said:


> Tell, Tell!  I understand if you don't have time or want it to be a bit proprietary, but
> I have it myself and I'm exploring it. It's been very useful in several widely different ways without much work, but I'm Always curious to hear how others tweak it.


No secret. I'm still experimenting and these are approximations, but, for instance:

LCR2: 60%, Close Ribbon: 100%, Stereo Ribbon: 60%, Ambient: 100%

Close Ribbon: 80%, Stereo Ribbon: 60%, Ambient: 100%

Close Ribbon: 80%, Close Vintage: 60%, Stereo Ribbon: 60%, Ambient: 100%

These all vary a little in sound. I was going for a mellower sound with more room depth when I was playing around with it, and I still need to explore more, but these are much different than, say, Mix 1. Varying the close mic will change things in subtle but important ways. The ribbon mics make a big difference. I'll get a better feel for it when I do some more writing with it. It's definitely worth experimenting to tweak the sound.


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## jazzman7 (Jan 10, 2022)

MelodicAdagio said:


> No secret. I'm still experimenting and these are approximations, but, for instance:
> 
> LCR2: 60%, Close Ribbon: 100%, Stereo Ribbon: 60%, Ambient: 100%
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the generosity! I've been right in the middle of a couple of projects. They both have AR2 as part of them (Love it!) But I've not had time to explore in a technical way other than to move to the "classical" mix and add a bit of room and onboard verb to match some of the other stuff in the template (for an animated score I'm working on). Fits in beautifully. 

If I want a few punchy Accents in places, this is one of my first stops already. Happy with this purchase!


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## ism (Jan 10, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Yeah honestly I’m surprised on how little the shorts are in the official demos and how most of the pieces were more on the sad droney, soundscape side. Because this library is ALIVE not cold and really capable. Versatile.



I kind of agree with you here. Some of the soundscapes in the demos sound to me like ... well it's not that I don't like them, just that the seem to be going for a more cinematic and/or or orchestral musicality for which I'd probably reach for Spitfire Solo Strings.

With some exceptions, like Paul Thompson's demo - which begins to lean into the unique sonority and musicality of the new library. And again, you demo suggests that your in the process of really leaning into this sonority and taking it farther.

It's probably not my sound, and I'm pretty happy with Spitfire Solo Strings for the moment (and still eyeing Sacconi). But it's always great to see the space of solo string expressiveness in samples grown.


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## zeng (Jan 10, 2022)

MelodicAdagio said:


> I've had the Pro version of AR2 for several days now and I've got to say that this is definitely one of Spitfire's very best efforts. It's highly satisfying to play around with. To get the most out of it, you really need the multiple mic positions that come with Pro. The Core version would be much more limiting in terms of sound shaping.
> 
> For instance, while the mix mics are OK, I've gotten some really nice results with a combination of the LCR2, close ribbon, stereo ribbon and ambient mics--all tweaked to varying degrees. It offers more room depth and a silkier sound. But with a different setup, you can certainly get a right-in-your-face, more aggressive sound, or something somewhere in between, depending on what you're going after and what the music calls for.
> 
> I've got quite a few Spitfire libraries. There are a couple that I regret purchasing and wish I hadn't spent the money on. Suffice it say, this is not one of them. I think that Spitfire hit it out of the park with this one. It's not a complete substitute for more conventional libraries of this sort, of course, but it definitely has its place.


*It's not a complete substitute for more conventional libraries of this sort, of course, but it definitely has its place.*

Which libraries are you also going to use?


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## Good Bear (Jan 11, 2022)

Yeah. The sound quality on this library is intense. Definitely the main selling point. I wrote a piece of music to see if I could really push the limits of what the library was capable of. I used Lili Boulanger's "Two Pieces for Violin and Piano No. 2, Cortège" as a jumping off point for what I wanted the sound and orchestration to be like, and then expanded it for string quintet. I found that the shorts are some of the highlights for me. Really expressive. The legatos have slightly clunky transitions, but the baked in performances actually sound really good in a lot of cases. I think I might post a fuller review here soon. There's definitely a ton here!


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## MelodicAdagio (Jan 11, 2022)

zeng said:


> *It's not a complete substitute for more conventional libraries of this sort, of course, but it definitely has its place.*
> 
> Which libraries are you also going to use?


A library I might use for a more conventional sound would be something like VSL Solo Strings or Spitfire Solo Strings.


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## Calagan (Jan 11, 2022)

Good Bear said:


> Yeah. The sound quality on this library is intense. Definitely the main selling point. I wrote a piece of music to see if I could really push the limits of what the library was capable of. I used Lili Boulanger's "Two Pieces for Violin and Piano No. 2, Cortège" as a jumping off point for what I wanted the sound and orchestration to be like, and then expanded it for string quintet. I found that the shorts are some of the highlights for me. Really expressive. The legatos have slightly clunky transitions, but the baked in performances actually sound really good in a lot of cases. I think I might post a fuller review here soon. There's definitely a ton here!



Nice demonstration of the library.
I'm intrigued by your mention of a clunky legato. I found that on slow lines (quarter notes @ 100BPM for exemple), using legato articulation (and overlaping notes) is actually making the transition between two notes accentuated. Maybe it could make sense for quick lines, but for slow lines it's often a bit strange. 
I think this accentuated legato gives a sonic identity to this library that make it difficult to use for a relaxed or meditative mood (think Arvo Part's Summa for exemple). And it's a pity because I think the sound of it (outside of legato) is good for this kind of pieces (it's not lyrical, vibrato is subtle, etc. etc.)
It sometimes sounds more natural to let a small gap between two notes and let the release (or reverb) create a "kind of legato", or even use "long" articulation, but any of this is sounding like a true legato.
I tried to use the CC1/CC11 to remove the accent, but it's difficult not to sound fake with this...
Did any of you find the same problem in the legato ? And did anyone find a fix ?
(i'm just discovering the library, so I may have missed something).


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## zeng (Jan 11, 2022)

MelodicAdagio said:


> A library I might use for a more conventional sound would be something like VSL Solo Strings or Spitfire Solo Strings.


One more questions then; did you upgrade your VSL Solo Strings to Synchronized version? If so how is it, if not why? Thanks


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## Soundbed (Jan 11, 2022)

Calagan said:


> Nice demonstration of the library.
> I'm intrigued by your mention of a clunky legato. I found that on slow lines (quarter notes @ 100BPM for exemple), using legato articulation (and overlaping notes) is actually making the transition between two notes accentuated. Maybe it could make sense for quick lines, but for slow lines it's often a bit strange.
> I think this accentuated legato gives a sonic identity to this library that make it difficult to use for a relaxed or meditative mood (think Arvo Part's Summa for exemple). And it's a pity because I think the sound of it (outside of legato) is good for this kind of pieces (it's not lyrical, vibrato is subtle, etc. etc.)
> It sometimes sounds more natural to let a small gap between two notes and let the release (or reverb) create a "kind of legato", or even use "long" articulation, but any of this is sounding like a true legato.
> ...


I believe the speed control can shave off another 25ms from the transitions. They go from 100-150ms as I recall. And default position is in the middle (125ms)


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## MelodicAdagio (Jan 11, 2022)

zeng said:


> One more questions then; did you upgrade your VSL Solo Strings to Synchronized version? If so how is it, if not why? Thanks


I haven't--only because I'm waiting for the Synchron version of VSL's Solo Strings. Of course, I have no idea on their release date. All we know is more stuff is in the pipeline. Had I not had other libraries I wanted to purchase first, I might have gotten the Synchron-ized Solo Strings a while back. But now that it's drawing closer to a Synchron version release date (whenever that may be), I'm holding off on doing anything with VSL solo strings.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 11, 2022)

Man, the VSL catalogue is confusing as hell haha.


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## muziksculp (Jan 11, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Man, the VSL catalogue is confusing as hell haha.


Not really, I find it very well organized, and easy to figure out. 

What's confusing you ?


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 11, 2022)

I mean, not REALLY but the whole synchron vs synchronized series etc is weird. I don't own any of their stuff so I haven't looked into it extensively but figuring out which one is newer than the other, are they an extension of an existing line or a new line. And if its a new line why is the name so similar etc. Hard to follow when it's talked about here for someone who is ignorant of it.


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## MelodicAdagio (Jan 11, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Man, the VSL catalogue is confusing as hell haha.





Baronvonheadless said:


> I mean, not REALLY but the whole synchron vs synchronized series etc is weird. I don't own any of their stuff so I haven't looked into it extensively but figuring out which one is newer than the other, are they an extension of an existing line or a new line. And if its a new line why is the name so similar etc.


If you're not familiar with the history, I can see how it might be confusing. Way back when, VSL got the idea to record things completely dry on what they called the "silent stage." The idea was that users would add their own reverb, panning and other sound treatment. That's the Vienna Instrument collections. So those are the original, older libraries. There's a lot of good stuff there, but it is bone dry and has its own Vienna Instruments Player, which people may or may not like. It's a little harder to understand than some. There's a bit of a learning curve with it. But it is an effective tool once you learn how to use it.

More recently they started recording more conventionally on Synchron Stage Vienna, which has been used for film scores and orchestra recording. Those are the Synchron libraries. They, too, have their own Synchron Player. It's an easy to understand UI and is well laid out. This is a popular player.

While they're gradually recording and adding new Synchron libraries, they went back meanwhile and re-edited Vienna Instruments samples to effectively place them on the Synchron stage. That's the Synchron-ized stuff. Thus you have things like Synchron-ized woodwinds, solo strings and so on. Just last month the new Synchron Woodwinds came out. These are new and completely separate samples from the Synchron-ized Woodwinds that came from the original, edited Vienna Instruments samples. I should mention that the Synchron-ized libraries use the newer Synchron Player as well.

Some people prefer the older Vienna Instruments stuff. Others prefer the newer Synchron offerings. But for those who don't want to wait for the Synchron libraries that haven't yet been released, or who prefer the older VI samples but want them on the Synchron stage using the Synchron Player, VSL has the Synchron-ized libraries.


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## Good Bear (Jan 11, 2022)

Calagan said:


> Nice demonstration of the library.
> I'm intrigued by your mention of a clunky legato. I found that on slow lines (quarter notes @ 100BPM for exemple), using legato articulation (and overlaping notes) is actually making the transition between two notes accentuated. Maybe it could make sense for quick lines, but for slow lines it's often a bit strange.
> I think this accentuated legato gives a sonic identity to this library that make it difficult to use for a relaxed or meditative mood (think Arvo Part's Summa for exemple). And it's a pity because I think the sound of it (outside of legato) is good for this kind of pieces (it's not lyrical, vibrato is subtle, etc. etc.)
> It sometimes sounds more natural to let a small gap between two notes and let the release (or reverb) create a "kind of legato", or even use "long" articulation, but any of this is sounding like a true legato.
> ...


Yeah... I'd say the library's biggest weakness is the weakness of most libraries... it does medium incredibly well. Ask it to really dig in, and it's not great at that. Ask it to go whisper quiet and it's not great at that. They need two more legato dynamics imo. One on the high and one on the low. 

I don't know exactly what you're trying to do, but pulling down sharply on cc11 at the exact moment of the legato transition often helps me in libraries where the legato is giving you trouble. Basically, don't ride cc11 WITH cc1. Keep it at 127, and just feather it as needed for help. Or foregoing the legato as well, and putting an idiomatic break between lines. 

As far as the "speed control" that @Soundbed was speaking about. Not 100% sure if I'm right, but I've found with spitfire that all they're doing when you quicken the speed control is literally just shaving time off the legato sample, so the faster it is, the less realistic it is. It doesn't seem (to my ears) that they're playing different legato speeds. 

I've found that using the lowest legato speed is ALMOST always better, and then compensating with track delay. It ALMOST always sounds more natural. It's worth it to try your own tests with that, for sure. Different tastes.


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## Calagan (Jan 11, 2022)

Good Bear said:


> Yeah... I'd say the library's biggest weakness is the weakness of most libraries... it does medium incredibly well. Ask it to really dig in, and it's not great at that. Ask it to go whisper quiet and it's not great at that. They need two more legato dynamics imo. One on the high and one on the low.
> 
> I don't know exactly what you're trying to do, but pulling down sharply on cc11 at the exact moment of the legato transition often helps me in libraries where the legato is giving you trouble. Basically, don't ride cc11 WITH cc1. Keep it at 127, and just feather it as needed for help. Or foregoing the legato as well, and putting an idiomatic break between lines.
> 
> ...


Yep, I tried the speed control, but it doesn't bring me where I want.
I'll try to use CC11 more precisely, but it just mask the issue, it doesn't solve it (and it takes a lot of time for editing).
Finally, I absolutely get what you say about sweet spot of AR2 (or any other library) : it does some stuff great, and some others less good. I've got impression that AR2 is good for punchy rythmical stuff (and it's one of the main reason I bought it, so I'm quite ok with that) but for very simple slow/quiet/intimate moods, it's a bit more complicated. 
By the way, the output is very low (like most Spitfire Audio libraries), and you can hear some strange ambient noises if you try to raise it to a decent -18dbfs RMS. Is there a trick I don't know about that issue ?


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## Good Bear (Jan 11, 2022)

Calagan said:


> Yep, I tried the speed control, but it doesn't bring me where I want.
> I'll try to use CC11 more precisely, but it just mask the issue, it doesn't solve it (and it takes a lot of time for editing).
> Finally, I absolutely get what you say about sweet spot of AR2 (or any other library) : it does some stuff great, and some others less good. I've got impression that AR2 is good for punchy rythmical stuff (and it's one of the main reason I bought it, so I'm quite ok with that) but for very simple slow/quiet/intimate moods, it's a bit more complicated.


Yeah, for a library with as good of sonic quality as this, I'll mask a few issues, but I completely agree that it's not 100% there. I've also gotten pretty used to practicing performing CC11 multiple ways for different libraries. 

Also, it's worth trying out, but if you play with the release of the the sul tasto patch and/or the flautando patch, the result is dang close to a good legato, and as long as you weren't playing those instruments soloistically, then that's how I would get quiet with this library. I know, I know, it's not the exact same... but possibly layered with the legato with volume brought halfway down... that's a useable pp patch. 



Calagan said:


> By the way, the output is very low (like most Spitfire Audio libraries), and you can hear some strange ambient noises if you try to raise it to a decent -18dbfs RMS. Is there a trick I don't know about that issue ?



Also, I have not found on this library that volume is an issue. When the master instrument volume is turned up to 6.0db, I can make the staccato patches clip. Not sure what the issue is! With that mockup I posted, it was consistently at -6db on my master meter. I was then able to master it to a very useable volume. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something about your issue, but I find the level of spitfire libraries to be directly comparable to their live recorded counterparts. Let me know if I'm missing something!


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## Calagan (Jan 11, 2022)

Good Bear said:


> Yeah, for a library with as good of sonic quality as this, I'll mask a few issues, but I completely agree that it's not 100% there. I've also gotten pretty used to practicing performing CC11 multiple ways for different libraries.


I'll try that and see how it outputs...



Good Bear said:


> Also, it's worth trying out, but if you play with the release of the the sul tasto patch and/or the flautando patch, the result is dang close to a good legato, and as long as you weren't playing those instruments soloistically, then that's how I would get quiet with this library. I know, I know, it's not the exact same... but possibly layered with the legato with volume brought halfway down... that's a useable pp patch.


Actually I was thinking about using different patches (sul tasto or flautando) for the kind of sound I'm thinking about, but I didn't try that yet... It may work, I'll try that concretely...



Good Bear said:


> Also, I have not found on this library that volume is an issue. When the master instrument volume is turned up to 6.0db, I can make the staccato patches clip. Not sure what the issue is! With that mockup I posted, it was consistently at -6db on my master meter. I was then able to master it to a very useable volume. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something about your issue, but I find the level of spitfire libraries to be directly comparable to their live recorded counterparts. Let me know if I'm missing something!


Maybe I've got an issue with a specific project I'm working on, because it's true that I didn't remember such an issue with other stuff I tried AR2 on...


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 12, 2022)

Newest piece with abbey road 2. 
Here I used the ensemble patch shorts. And then loaded a few of the viola/violin shorts for different color. Mixed with some BHCT patches and a few bbc pro patches. Meat and potatoes here is AR2 tho! Wanted to do something inspired by the work of the great Bernard Herrmann









Suspect Motives


An Original Composition by Michael Oliva




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


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## Good Bear (Jan 19, 2022)

Ok, after taking some time to work through the library and do the mock-up that I posted a little bit ago here are some of my thoughts about the library itself. This should be helpful for anyone really needing some specifics about the library before buying!


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## jazzman7 (Jan 19, 2022)

Good Bear said:


> Ok, after taking some time to work through the library and do the mock-up that I posted a little bit ago here are some of my thoughts about the library itself. This should be helpful for anyone really needing some specifics about the library before buying!



Excellent review. It is buggy, but hopefully they will address much of this soon. Tho holding my breath on the turnaround is not a good idea!


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## muziksculp (Jan 19, 2022)

jazzman7 said:


> Excellent review. It is buggy, but hopefully they will address much of this soon. Tho holding my breath on the turnaround is not a good idea!


Is it buggy on his system ? or buggy with all users ? There is a big difference which one is true.

He mentions almost 15 minutes to load the patches, no one has mentioned this issue so far. I think he has an issue with his system/s .


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## Good Bear (Jan 19, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Is it buggy on his system ? or buggy with all users ? There is a big difference which one is true.
> 
> He mentions almost 15 minutes to load the patches, no one has mentioned this issue so far. I think he has an issue with his system/s .


Yes, I believe I mentioned in the review that I wasn’t claiming that was an everyone issue. I’m chatting with the folks at spitfire, and seeing if we can figure it out. It is definitely weird, considering everything else on my system is great.

Wasn’t trying to paint the picture that everyone will have that issue. Rather, I’ve found the SF player to be generally more finicky than most engines.


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## muziksculp (Jan 19, 2022)

Good Bear said:


> Yes, I believe I mentioned in the review that I wasn’t claiming that was an everyone issue. I’m chatting with the folks at spitfire, and seeing if we can figure it out. It is definitely weird, considering everything else on my system is great.
> 
> Wasn’t trying to paint the picture that everyone will have that issue. Rather, I’ve found the SF player to be in generally more finicky than most engines.


Thanks for the feedback. I understand, it's frustrating when these things happen.

The fact that there are no others reporting those very long loading times, and other issues point more towards your system, rather than their software.

I hope you get it sorted out, and fixed with Spitfire Support. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Evans (Jan 19, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> He mentions almost 15 minutes to load the patches, no one has mentioned this issue so far. I think he has an issue with his system/s .


It takes me about two minutes to load each patch or a new mic position. I have an open case with Spitfire Audio support in which they said it's a known issue. Last I heard (release week), they were having trouble pinpointing for which system configurations this occurs. 

It's odd, because other Spitfire proprietary libraries on the same drive (such as EWC) are playable pretty much immediately.


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## jazzman7 (Jan 19, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Is it buggy on his system ? or buggy with all users ? There is a big difference which one is true.


AR2 Pro. My experiences.

Stuck notes often. 

I Change mics and all instruments drop their levels except the Bass which digs in enough to blow the speakers while the others in the ensemble all but disappear. 

Add an instance, and the previous instance sticks the note on A5.

I set an LCR 2 mic and a bit of ambient and it suddenly changed on it's own to LCR 1. Since I was just working at scratch mode and it sounded pretty good, I let it slide and moved on...for now

I cannot confirm the super slow load times He has experienced. It ain't fast, but it's not that ridiculously slow for me. 

That is a few of them.

I do not know if this is just my system, but my other VI's including SF's, all behave normally, so my guess is this is not just me. I'll put it this way... When I heard him say buggy, I was not surprised.

Every VI I have requires me to dig into it and learn it's peccadillos and how to work around them. This one is particularly challenging I find. 

But I still love it! haha

PS I hate running down bugs. One time while complaining about BBCSO shorts timing, SF wanted MIDI files, screenshots etc. I spent an hour running down every short timing issue in BBCSO Vlns. Notes, Velocities, etc. Only to then be told (After sending all that in) that it was a known issue. If it was already known, Why make me go thru all those steps? Makes me not want to repeat that experience


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 19, 2022)

Yeah not 15 minutes, but it does take longer for me to load AR2 than BBC Pro...which takes longer than any other instruments I use. A bit annoying, but all part of the game. 

It performs pretty well, but I can't really use more than two mic positions at once without overloading it because when I do big chords (especially the ensemble) it's just going crazy with voice count and I have a MacBook Pro with only 32gb of ram. If I had higher ram it'd probably not be quite an issue. 

Spitfire motions is the only other spitfire plugin that messes with my ram or glitches/pops when I try to do too much with mic positions. 

I don't have that issue with BBCSO Pro or AR1

That said, I love AR2.


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## liquidlino (Jan 19, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Yeah not 15 minutes, but it does take longer for me to load AR2 than BBC Pro...which takes longer than any other instruments I use. A bit annoying, but all part of the game.
> 
> It performs pretty well, but I can't really use more than two mic positions at once without overloading it because when I do big chords (especially the ensemble) it's just going crazy with voice count and I have a MacBook Pro with only 32gb of ram. If I had higher ram it'd probably not be quite an issue.
> 
> ...


Even Kontakt can be a killer though. In BHCT, the Harp and Vibraphone sustain, with a couple of mic positions on, will utterly max out my six core AMD 3600, all on its own, for self programmed glissandos. I think it all depends on the programming and what features are being used by the developer.


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## Kalli (Jan 22, 2022)

I really, REALLY like the tone of this library! I've been looking for a library like this for a long time. However, as others have pointed out, it is currently far from perfect when it comes to programming and editing. What I find most frustrating is that some dynamic crossfades are downright awful, with *extreme *jumps in volume at the dynamic layer splitpoints (i.e., at CC1 values 39->40 and 89->90). Meanwhile, there is little or no volume change as CC1 moves within a single dynamic layer. This makes the affected patches useless for most purposes.

I prepared a few screen recordings as illustration for Spitfire support and thought I might as well post them here. I'd be interested to hear if others have similar experiences. I sincerely hope that these are simple and easily fixed scripting errors, because, surely, this can't be considered acceptable for a library in this price range?


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## madfloyd (Jan 22, 2022)

Wow. You have to wonder if Spitfire does this sort of thing on purpose as a strategy to be able to sell the next library on 'hope' that it was programmed better.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jan 22, 2022)

Kalli said:


> I really, REALLY like the tone of this library! I've been looking for a library like this for a long time. However, as others have pointed out, it is currently far from perfect when it comes to programming and editing. What I find most frustrating is that some dynamic crossfades are downright awful, with *extreme *jumps in volume at the dynamic layer splitpoints (i.e., at CC1 values 39->40 and 89->90). Meanwhile, there is little or no volume change as CC1 moves within a single dynamic layer. This makes the affected patches useless for most purposes.
> 
> I prepared a few screen recordings as illustration for Spitfire support and thought I might as well post them here. I'd be interested to hear if others have similar experiences. I sincerely hope that these are simple and easily fixed scripting errors, because, surely, this can't be considered acceptable for a library in this price range?



Ouch that’s bad


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## Wagnersliszt (Jan 23, 2022)

Following


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## Rudianos (Jan 23, 2022)

Spitfire did get back about the volume - they did hear the big shifts and said that it was related to the performance of the musicians. Did not indicate they saw it as a problem. Maybe they change their minds... We did get the portamento bugs acknowledged in some of the mics. When you submit your bug claim - send MP3 - send MIDI - send screenshots. They'll be asking.

More that send - more that link - the better. When I submitted it seemed like not many had at the point.

Apart from that everything is workable - and an otherwise fabulous library. Something tells me these Holiday releases to tend to get rushed out.


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## Kalli (Jan 23, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Spitfire did get back about the volume - they did hear the big shifts and said that it was related to the performance of the musicians. Did not indicate they saw it as a problem. Maybe they change their minds...


Which volume issue are you referring to?


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## Rudianos (Jan 23, 2022)

Kalli said:


> Which volume issue are you referring to?


Violin I Close Vintage was the focus. Large dynamic jumps


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## easyrider (Jan 23, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Man, the VSL catalogue is confusing as hell haha.


It’s totally confusing….I agree…It melts my brain every time I visit the website.


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## easyrider (Jan 23, 2022)

MelodicAdagio said:


> If you're not familiar with the history, I can see how it might be confusing. Way back when, VSL got the idea to record things completely dry on what they called the "silent stage." The idea was that users would add their own reverb, panning and other sound treatment. That's the Vienna Instrument collections. So those are the original, older libraries. There's a lot of good stuff there, but it is bone dry and has its own Vienna Instruments Player, which people may or may not like. It's a little harder to understand than some. There's a bit of a learning curve with it. But it is an effective tool once you learn how to use it.
> 
> More recently they started recording more conventionally on Synchron Stage Vienna, which has been used for film scores and orchestra recording. Those are the Synchron libraries. They, too, have their own Synchron Player. It's an easy to understand UI and is well laid out. This is a popular player.
> 
> ...


Still confused lol


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## Flyo (Jan 23, 2022)

Agree here about VSL catalog! Maybe the design of the website isn’t the best for show their vast products and multiples names
😳


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## easyrider (Jan 23, 2022)

Flyo said:


> Agree here about VSL catalog! Maybe the design of the website isn’t the best for show their vast products and multiples names
> 😳


You should have seen the website before this one....!


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## Aitcpiano (Jan 23, 2022)

Ignore - posted in wrong thread


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## SupremeFist (Jan 23, 2022)

Kalli said:


> I really, REALLY like the tone of this library! I've been looking for a library like this for a long time. However, as others have pointed out, it is currently far from perfect when it comes to programming and editing. What I find most frustrating is that some dynamic crossfades are downright awful, with *extreme *jumps in volume at the dynamic layer splitpoints (i.e., at CC1 values 39->40 and 89->90). Meanwhile, there is little or no volume change as CC1 moves within a single dynamic layer. This makes the affected patches useless for most purposes.
> 
> I prepared a few screen recordings as illustration for Spitfire support and thought I might as well post them here. I'd be interested to hear if others have similar experiences. I sincerely hope that these are simple and easily fixed scripting errors, because, surely, this can't be considered acceptable for a library in this price range?



I'm confused as to why some libraries (I've seen this on pianos too) don't as a matter of course increase volume within each dynamic layer in order to avoid these big jumps. Is it somehow technically difficult to do?


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## muziksculp (Jan 23, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> I'm confused as to why some libraries (I've seen this on pianos too) don't as a matter of course increase volume within each dynamic layer in order to avoid these big jumps. Is it somehow technically difficult to do?


Using CC11 (expression) along with CC1 will help remedy this issue.


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## SupremeFist (Jan 23, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Using CC11 (expression) along with CC1 will help remedy this issue.


No doubt! But a) I don't see why I should have to do that and b) it doesn't help with pianos that have the same problem.


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## muziksculp (Jan 23, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> No doubt! But a) I don't see why I should have to do that and b) it doesn't help with pianos that have the same problem.


Yes, that's true. But at least we can get better results by incorporating CC11 with CC1.


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## Kalli (Jan 23, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> Is it somehow technically difficult to do?


I’m not a programmer, but I don’t think it is very difficult. My guess is that they have simply failed to assign volume change to CC1 in this case.



muziksculp said:


> Using CC11 (expression) along with CC1 will help remedy this issue.


Not really. It would take some very acrobatic moves. For instance, if moving through the middle dynamic layer while raising CC11, you’d have to make a very steep, instantaneous dive and time it perfectly to the point where CC1 hits 90. I doubt even the most skilled virtual orchestrator can pull that off without either causing a massive drop in volume (if timed ever so slightly too early) or a huge burst in volume (if timed too late). So I’d say this can’t be fixed by live fader movements alone.

Then, of course, you can try and fix it by drawing in CC11 data. But this is extremely cumbersome and time consuming (trust me, I’ve tried). Basically, the CC11 curve needs to jump all over the place, and in a piece with a lot of dynamic movement it is simply not feasible.

Finally, even if CC11 were to fix the issue in theory, it would require a completely different workflow than the other patches. To me, that’s not an acceptable solution.


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## muziksculp (Jan 23, 2022)

Kalli said:


> Finally, even if CC11 were to fix the issue in theory, it would require a completely different workflow than the other patches. To me, that’s not an acceptable solution.


I didn't say it fixes the issue, but rather it improves the results a bit. 

Yes, I agree CC1 (Dynamics) should also affect the volume to a certain degree.


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## Kalli (Jan 23, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I didn't say it fixes the issue, but rather it improves the results a bit.


If drawn in with precision, then yes absolutely. If riding CC1 and CC11 simultaneously, it actually exacerbates the problem most of the time (i.e., creating more extreme jumps in volume).



muziksculp said:


> Yes, I agree CC1 (Dynamics) should also affect the volume to a certain degree.


Glad we agree. And I'm 100% with you that CC11 almost always is needed alongside CC1 for a realistic performance.


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## TomaeusD (Feb 14, 2022)

How do these sound without vibrato? Are legato transitions decent? Is there any phasing with CC1?


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## Cdnalsi (Feb 14, 2022)

TomaeusD said:


> How do these sound without vibrato? Are legato transitions decent? Is there any phasing with CC1?


The vibrato control is only enabled for the individual instruments' 'Long' articulation. There seems to be 3 layers of vibrato strength on top of the non-vibrato, and a little bit of phasing when shifting through them going on to my ears. There's also quite a big difference in vibrato speed and strength between instruments (Violin 2 has a faster and stronger molto, compared to a more subdued one on the Violin 1 for some reason). The other long articulations and the ensemble patches have baked-in vibrato.

The legato transitions sound great to me, though I can only speak about the 'Performance Legato' and 'Slurred Legato' as I only have the Core version, so I'm missing the 'Portamento' one. 

I love the sound though personally, I think it has a great character and realism.


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## TomaeusD (Feb 15, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> The vibrato control is only enabled for the individual instruments' 'Long' articulation. There seems to be 3 layers of vibrato strength on top of the non-vibrato, and a little bit of phasing when shifting through them going on to my ears. There's also quite a big difference in vibrato speed and strength between instruments (Violin 2 has a faster and stronger molto, compared to a more subdued one on the Violin 1 for some reason). The other long articulations and the ensemble patches have baked-in vibrato.
> 
> The legato transitions sound great to me, though I can only speak about the 'Performance Legato' and 'Slurred Legato' as I only have the Core version, so I'm missing the 'Portamento' one.
> 
> I love the sound though personally, I think it has a great character and realism.


Thanks for the detailed response, those are great things to know!


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## Mike Stone (Mar 28, 2022)

How are you getting along with Abbey Road Two? I was about to buy it, but decided to wait. The viola, cello and contrabass sound great, and the production quality (being Spitfire) is outstanding.

However, the violins simply rub me the wrong way. To my ears (judging from demos and YT-reviews) they sound metallic and harsh when doing longs and legato lines, even a bit flat here and there. I'm contemplating getting the Sacconi Strings Quartet instead for pop/rock arrangements.

Sacconi sounds fuller to me, and lack the thinner sound of the ARTIS violins (again IMO). The Sacconi library was updated after release with fairly detailed performance legato patches, so it seems like a decent alternative to ARTIS.

Any thoughts?  Thanks!


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## sumskilz (Mar 28, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> However, the violins simply rub me the wrong way. To my ears (judging from demos and YT-reviews) they sound metallic and harsh when doing longs and legato lines, even a bit flat here and there.


To me, they sound like close-miked violins in a recording studio, and just as I have experienced when recording violins, ribbon mics tone that harshness down:



Although like you, I've only listened to demos and YT reviews.


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## Mike Stone (Mar 28, 2022)

sumskilz said:


> To me, they sound like close-miked violins in a recording studio, and just as I have experienced when recording violins, ribbon mics tone that harshness down:
> 
> 
> 
> Although like you, I've only listened to demos and YT reviews.



Very interesting! The ribbon mic sounds A LOT better to me, than the rather harsh main mixes. Time to get off the fence, and open my wallet. 

Still wish that Spitfire would make it possible to only download specific mics/mixes, as in this case you'll probably only need 3-4 of the mics, with the rest being too harsh or too speciality...for my usage anyway.


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## holywilly (Mar 28, 2022)

My only rant about this library is too little vibrato or no vibrato controls on legato.


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## Soundbed (Mar 28, 2022)

sumskilz said:


> To me, they sound like close-miked violins in a recording studio, and just as I have experienced when recording violins, ribbon mics tone that harshness down:
> 
> 
> 
> Although like you, I've only listened to demos and YT reviews.



Thanks for posting this. I was going to ask if @Mike Stone had heard the ribbon mics!


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## Mike Stone (Mar 28, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Thanks for posting this. I was going to ask if @Mike Stone had heard the ribbon mics!


Thanks, that was very informative, and gave me a much better impression of the library (downloading it now). I find it a bit strange that Spitfire promoted this library with those IMO harsh main mixes, and making it the only option for the regular edition of ARTIS. Anyways, great video!


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## muziksculp (Mar 28, 2022)

I wish the Staccatto articulations were longer in this library, they sound very close to the Spicc. in terms of lenght, Staccatto is not meant to be that short of a playing technique. I wonder why they decided to make it so short ? 

I also find the fact that they don't have any vibrato control for the solo strings, and did not allow for pitchbend control is another big weakness. I can use a hardware controller to create quite realistic vibrato if they had enabled pitchbend control. I will write to their support to see if this can be offered via a future update.


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## Mike Stone (Mar 28, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I wish the Staccatto articulations were longer in this library, they sound very close to the Spicc. in terms of lenght, Staccatto is not meant to be that short of a playing technique. I wonder why they decided to make it so short ?
> 
> I also find the fact that they don't have any vibrato control for the solo strings, and did not allow for pitchbend control is another big weakness. I can use a hardware controller to create quite realistic vibrato if they had enabled pitchbend control. I will write to their support to see if this can be offered via a future update.


Good to know. It's important that we contact Spotify about these shortcomings. They have responded and made considerable updates to existing libraries before. If enough people bug them about these things, it might make a difference.

EDIT: For some reason I managed to write "Spotify", not "Spitfire".


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## muziksculp (Mar 28, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> Good to know. It's important that we contact Spotify about these shortcomings. They have responded and made considerable updates to existing libraries before. If enough people bug them about these things, it might make a difference.


I'm guessing you meant to write Spitfire, and not Spotify 

I already sent them a support ticket requesting pitchbend control be enabled. Hopefully they won't igonore it, I'm sure I can make these solo strings sound so much more realistic, and expressive if they enable pitchbend.


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## CT (Mar 28, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I wish the Staccatto articulations were longer in this library, they sound very close to the Spicc. in terms of lenght, Staccatto is not meant to be that short of a playing technique. I wonder why they decided to make it so short ?
> 
> I also find the fact that they don't have any vibrato control for the solo strings, and did not allow for pitchbend control is another big weakness. I can use a hardware controller to create quite realistic vibrato if they had enabled pitchbend control. I will write to their support to see if this can be offered via a future update.


I think there is so much possible variation in performance of short notes that we really have to take the way developers label them with a grain of salt. They are all quite tight in this library, it's true, but that must have been what they felt fit the overall aesthetic. When you put them "in motion" though the spiccato is much more obviously bouncy and suited to, well, spiccato passages, than the staccato.

View attachment ar2.mp3


As for vibrato control, there is on the normal longs! Just not on the legato patches, I _think_ as a result of the specific way the legato was executed for this library.


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## muziksculp (Mar 28, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> I think there is so much possible variation in performance of short notes that we really have to take the way developers label them with a grain of salt.


Yes, especially when it's a Spitfire Strings Library. I really think they should improve their knowledge of Short String bowing techniques. They seem to be more obsessed with the longs, and espcially the flautandos. 

Oh.. going back to Spicc. and Stacc, well as I mentioned I really feel that the Stacc. of this library is too short, it's not as agile to use because of that, they would have been so much more useful musically if they sampled a few more milliseconds of the stacc. bowing performances. The Spiccatos sound pretty good, and sound like they actually do, but not the Stacc.


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## DCPImages (Mar 28, 2022)

My childhood memories of iconic cinematic strings always feature the low pizzicato bouncing along under the theme music. Not having it seems to leave the ‘legendary low strings’ feeling a little incomplete?


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## Cdnalsi (Mar 29, 2022)

DCPImages said:


> My childhood memories of iconic cinematic strings always feature the low pizzicato bouncing along under the theme music. Not having it seems to leave the ‘legendary low strings’ feeling a little incomplete?


The library does have pizzicato.


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## DCPImages (Mar 29, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> The library does have pizzicato.


Really? The Spitfire page for the “Abbey Road One Legendary Low Strings” product lists legato, longs, staccato and spiccato but not pizzicato? Is this an error on the spitfire site?


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## Cdnalsi (Mar 29, 2022)

DCPImages said:


> Really? The Spitfire page for the “Abbey Road One Legendary Low Strings” product lists legato, longs, staccato and spiccato but not pizzicato? Is this an error on the spitfire site?


I believe you're confusing the $49 Abbey Road One Legendary Low Strings with the $299/$499 Abbey Road Two: Iconic Strings, which this thread is about.


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## DCPImages (Mar 29, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> I believe you're confusing the $49 Abbey Road One Legendary Low Strings with the $299/$499 Abbey Road Two: Iconic Strings, which this thread is about.


You are right! Sorry 😊


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## Mike Stone (Mar 29, 2022)

I loaded up the violin 2 legato patch in ARTIS for the first time, and immediately noticed a prominent clicking noise on every note upwards from C5, when you play a larger intervall up to that note (like an octave). I then tried the legato patches for violin 1 and viola, and it happens there too - though not quite as prominently (and on fewer notes). How does this get through quality control?

The overall sound profile is a bit idiosyncratic to me (including ribbon mics) tbh. I was highly impressed by Abbey Road One which I recently purchased, but here are some issues that need to be fixed.

It would be nice to have vibrato control on the legato patches too (although the vibrato transitions on regular longs are too bumpy to be used progressively, and can only be used as an on/off switch at this point)...


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## Soundbed (Mar 29, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> I loaded up the violin 2 legato patch in ARTIS for the first time, and immediately noticed a prominent clicking noise on every note upwards from C5, when you play a larger intervall up to that note (like an octave). I then tried the legato patches for violin 1 and viola, and it happens there too - though not quite as prominently (and on fewer notes). How does this get through quality control?
> 
> The overall sound profile is a bit strange to me, especially the violins (even with the ribbon mics). I was highly impressed by Abbey Road One which I recently purchased, but here are some issues that need to be fixed.
> 
> It would be nice to have vibrato control on the legato patches too (though the vibrato on regular longs is too bumpy to be used progressively)...


Audio example(s)? I’m not at the daw.


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## Mike Stone (Mar 29, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Audio example(s)? I’m not at the daw.


It's not an issue with my computer afaik (I've tried upping the I/O buffer size etc.), and you can also hear similar artifacts in the demonstration video from Spitfire. The library is also exceedingly heavy on the CPU.


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## Soundbed (Mar 29, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> It's not an issue with my computer afaik (I've tried upping the I/O buffer size etc.), and you can also hear similar artifacts in the demonstration video from Spitfire a couple of times.


Thanks. Yeah not everyone samples an octave (and few sample higher). I usually check for that. Does seem like that crossfade needs some work. I rarely expect to get decent “legato” transitions at the interval of an octave or higher. Maybe my standards are too low. 

Like, not as high. 

Like … not higher intervals. 

I’ll go back to petting my cat now.


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## Mike Stone (Mar 29, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Thanks. Yeah not everyone samples an octave (and few sample higher). I usually check for that. Does seem like that crossfade needs some work. I rarely expect to get decent “legato” transitions at the interval of an octave or higher. Maybe my standards are too low.
> 
> Like, not as high.
> 
> ...


This issue happens with all intervals above a perfect fourth. I simply used the octave to show it more clearly. I haven't heard this artifact in any other string library so far.

Also when playing with the ensemble patch, the sound occasionally breaks up even when using the maximum I/O sample size of 1024. Usually it's set at 128-256. Not good...


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## ArtAt (Mar 29, 2022)

This has been a fascinating thread because I'm in the market for a complete string library in the <$300 price range (mostly as adjunct instruments in a pop/synth context, and mostly shorts, not much legato). I've learned a lot from this thread!! 35 pages and counting!! My other two candidates are Embertone ISS and Chris Hein Strings Compact. Does anyone here know if either of those two libraries have spawned such long detailed discussions on VI-Control? Thanks in advance.


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## Soundbed (Mar 29, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> This issue happens with all intervals above a perfect fourth. I simply used the octave to show it more clearly. Why isn't this mentioned is reviews? Hmm..
> 
> Also when using the ensemble patch, the sound occasionally breaks up even with an I/O sample size at 1024. Usually it's set at 128. Think I'll get another more playable string quartet library instead, and delete it from my SSD, and then try again in 6 months. Hopefully some more updates and improvements have been made by then.


Hmm… odd. I wonder if it’s not got all the (legato transition) samples in RAM when you need them, then?


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## Mike Stone (Mar 29, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Hmm… odd. I wonder if it’s not got all the (legato transition) samples in RAM when you need them, then?


I've sent a bug report to Spitfire, we'll see what they make of it.


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## Kalli (Mar 29, 2022)

Kalli said:


> I really, REALLY like the tone of this library! I've been looking for a library like this for a long time. However, as others have pointed out, it is currently far from perfect when it comes to programming and editing. What I find most frustrating is that some dynamic crossfades are downright awful, with *extreme *jumps in volume at the dynamic layer splitpoints (i.e., at CC1 values 39->40 and 89->90). Meanwhile, there is little or no volume change as CC1 moves within a single dynamic layer. This makes the affected patches useless for most purposes.
> 
> I prepared a few screen recordings as illustration for Spitfire support and thought I might as well post them here. I'd be interested to hear if others have similar experiences. I sincerely hope that these are simple and easily fixed scripting errors, because, surely, this can't be considered acceptable for a library in this price range?



A bugfix update for this library is long overdue. I reported the glaring issues in the above post about three months ago. All I've heard is that they've been forwarded to the development team. But considering the rate at which Spitfire are putting out new libraries (rather than fixing old ones), we may to wait quite a bit longer still. I love the sound of the library, but these issues make it super frustrating to work with...


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## Mike Stone (Mar 29, 2022)

Kalli said:


> A bugfix update for this library is long overdue. I reported the glaring issues in the above post about three months ago. All I've heard is that they've been forwarded to the development team. But considering the rate at which Spitfire are putting out new libraries (rather than fixing old ones), we may to wait quite a bit longer still. I love the sound of the library, but these issues make it super frustrating to work with...



Exactly. Also not being able to use vibrato in a progressive way on long notes, because the transitions are very bumpy is a big oversight.

I mean, there is so much detail in this library. 12 mic/mix signals, lots of articulations, interesting new technology (the arranger, although it needs some serious CPU optimization), but there are some very rough edges here that really need to be fixed.


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## Rudianos (Mar 29, 2022)

Sadly the Ribbon Mic on Viola Legato still broken throughout upper ranges A Bb and up - misfires the notes. Mod wheel all at quietest. Does not look they fixed up the Violin patches either yet. It has been 2+ months since my tickets. Thats why they push the Mix A B because the others don't work yet!


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## Kalli (Mar 30, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Sadly the Ribbon Mic on Viola Legato still broken throughout upper ranges A Bb and up - misfires the notes. Mod wheel all at quietest. Does not look they fixed up the Violin patches either yet. It has been 2+ months since my tickets. Thats why they push the Mix A B because the others don't work yet!


Yep, the individual mic signals indeed have more issues than the mixes. Nice treat for those of us who paid extra for the Pro version. 🙃


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## galactic orange (Mar 30, 2022)

Kalli said:


> Yep, the individual mic signals indeed have more issues than the mixes. Nice treat for those of us who paid extra for the Pro version. 🙃


I plan on upgrading from Core to Pro when the next sale arrives so I hope these issues get some serious attention.


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## Mike Stone (Mar 30, 2022)

Kalli said:


> Yep, the individual mic signals indeed have more issues than the mixes. Nice treat for those of us who paid extra for the Pro version. 🙃


If there is an issue with the amount of development time needed to properly finish such an ambitious library, and at the same time make the wheels go around financially, then why not simply cut the number of mic/mix channels in half, and rather work on more quality and less (unnecessary) quantity within these libraries? Call me crazy, I dunno...

Either way, the more people send in bug reports, the more likely something will get done.


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## Kalli (Mar 30, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> If there is an issue with the amount of development time needed to properly finish such an ambitious library, and at the same time make the wheels go around financially, then why not simply cut the number of mic/mix channels in half, and rather work on more quality and less (unnecessary) quantity within these libraries? Call me crazy, I dunno...
> 
> Either way, the more people send in bug reports, the more likely something will get done.


Yeah, I agree. Or perhaps release the basic version first, having made sure the mixes work as intended, and then offer the pro version as an upgrade once all the issues have been sorted.


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## carlc (Mar 30, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> I've sent a bug report to Spitfire, we'll see what they make of it.


I listened to the audio sample you posted above, the click is quite prominent. Thanks for sharing. Please let us know if you get a response back to your help ticket. I had this on my wishlist for maybe the spring sale or next BF sale, but may look for alternatives.


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## Cdnalsi (Mar 30, 2022)

This might sound insensitive but even though I hear the click, I kind of like it. Makes it more realistic in a weird kind of way. Still love the sound of the library and wouldn't pass it up because of this.


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## carlc (Mar 30, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> This might sound insensitive but even though I hear the click, I kind of like it. Makes it more realistic in a weird kind of way. Still love the sound of the library and wouldn't pass it up because of this.


Are you saying that this library really clicks with you?


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## Mike Stone (Mar 30, 2022)

carlc said:


> I listened to the audio sample you posted above, the click is quite prominent. Thanks for sharing. Please let us know if you get a response back to your help ticket. I had this on my wishlist for maybe the spring sale or next BF sale, but may look for alternatives.


Will do.

Don't get me wrong, there's a huge amount of content here, with more articulations and functionality than any other solo string library I've researched so far. Fingers crossed for an update in the near future...


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## artomatic (Apr 6, 2022)

Is there a portamento speed control?


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## Rudianos (Apr 10, 2022)

artomatic said:


> Is there a portamento speed control?


There is some - not as much as ISS - controlled via speed knob. Violin 1 Legato Portamento. Max Speed, 50%, 0%

View attachment SAR2 - Portomento.mp3


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## artomatic (Apr 10, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> There is some - not as much as ISS - controlled via speed knob. Violin 1 Legato Portamento. Max Speed, 50%, 0%
> 
> View attachment SAR2 - Portomento.mp3



Thanks for this info!


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## CT (Apr 22, 2022)

Did this for a conversation in another thread, but it's really more relevant here I guess. I haven't had many chances to use AR2 yet but this is the kind of thing I mainly bought the library for and I think it just rocks at it. I look forward to having a little more mix control when I have the space to upgrade.


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## Kalli (May 22, 2022)

Kalli said:


> I really, REALLY like the tone of this library! I've been looking for a library like this for a long time. However, as others have pointed out, it is currently far from perfect when it comes to programming and editing. What I find most frustrating is that some dynamic crossfades are downright awful, with *extreme *jumps in volume at the dynamic layer splitpoints (i.e., at CC1 values 39->40 and 89->90). Meanwhile, there is little or no volume change as CC1 moves within a single dynamic layer. This makes the affected patches useless for most purposes.
> 
> I prepared a few screen recordings as illustration for Spitfire support and thought I might as well post them here. I'd be interested to hear if others have similar experiences. I sincerely hope that these are simple and easily fixed scripting errors, because, surely, this can't be considered acceptable for a library in this price range?



For those who, like myself, have lost their patience with the bugs in this library: I reached out to Spitfire a few days ago and asked for a status update on the bugs described in the above post. I got the response that it "looks like the developers are getting close to the fix for this one. Once they confirm it it will move to QA and then release". So there is hope for an update in a not too distant future.


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## Cdnalsi (May 22, 2022)

Kalli said:


> For those who, like myself, have lost their patience with the bugs in this library: I reached out to Spitfire a few days ago and asked for a status update on the bugs described in the above post. I got the response that it "looks like the developers are getting close to the fix for this one. Once they confirm it it will move to QA and then release". So there is hope for an update in a not too distant future.


Great news, thanks!


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## muziksculp (May 28, 2022)

Kalli said:


> For those who, like myself, have lost their patience with the bugs in this library: I reached out to Spitfire a few days ago and asked for a status update on the bugs described in the above post. I got the response that it "looks like the developers are getting close to the fix for this one. Once they confirm it it will move to QA and then release". So there is hope for an update in a not too distant future.


I love the sound of this library. But, it has been impossible to play multiple mics without crackling noises, and it takes too long to load the patches. Also major issues of crackling when using more than one mic, and enabling Multi-Voice mode for the Ensembles.

I really hope they can improve the performance of this library, load times, and any other bugs that have been detected/reported.

Thanks for the heads up on this, maybe I will know when the update is ready from this thread.

Actually, testing further, I'm getting crackling due to CPU overload when I have Multi-Voice enabled for the Ensembles, and just using one mic position. Also issue when just using one mic position, and a bit of higher voice activity, I even increased the max voice limit in the player, but the problem still exists. 

Not good. 

@SpitfireSupport , Please fix these issues for this library. Hope you have an update soon.

Thanks.


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## Mike Stone (May 29, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I love the sound of this library. But, it has been impossible to play multiple mics without crackling noises, and it takes too long to load the patches. Also major issues of crackling when using more than one mic, and enabling Multi-Voice mode for the Ensembles.
> 
> I really hope they can improve the performance of this library, load times, and any other bugs that have been detected/reported.
> 
> ...


The ensemble function should be ditched for regular ensemble patches, as the instrument range transitions aren't that great (stereo position, sound level) IMO. Regular ensemble patches are also much easier on the CPU and RAM. This new technology sounds great on paper, but isn't that practical in real life.


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## boxofsparklers (May 29, 2022)

I just got AR2, after reading this thread. Then I had to register an account because I feel like a lot of people are discussing the fact that the library (or the violins specifically) sound harsh, and then they're discussing the fact that the pro version is unnecessarily large with an abundance of mics, without ever coming to the conclusion that's quite obvious after an hour of playing it - the mix1 and vintage mix1 ARE in fact both very harsh mixes. Mix1 is close condenser mics and not much room, vintage mix1 is very mid focused and brash with almost no room. They're cool in their own right, but very limited. Start putting some ribbons in there, and more room, and bam, "sweet" instead of harsh. So yeah, you get 20% of the library with core, the equivalent of the size.

Also, the legatos are fine, some demos must be quite clumsyly written...


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## muziksculp (May 29, 2022)

I remember reading about a tip where it mentions that loading an empty instance of the Spitfire Player for this library, i.e. setting the default to load with 'none' in the settings of the plugin, so it loads an empty instance, but don't use it, then add a new instances of the library, and select the patch you want to play would help tame the CPU a bit, so I did this, and it did help a bit, especially allowing me to play the ensemble with Multi-Voice mode of the all in one ensemble mode enabled.

I'm able to play more notes, without CPU issues that caused audio crackling. Noting that this is fine when using one mic option, if I add a second mic, the crackling issue returns, so not a full solution, but at least I can use the library.

I'm guessing this helps is because the first CPU Core #1 in a multicore system, is the one that gets overloaded, so having nothing running on that CPU Core, allows for a more even distribution of the additional CPU Cores, #2,#3,#4...etc. as you load more instances of the player.


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## Evans (May 29, 2022)

Interesting. Bookmarking this so I can try it out when I'm home. Thanks for calling that out.


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## PrimeEagle (May 29, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I'm guessing this helps is because the first CPU Core #1 in a multicore system, is the one that gets overloaded, so having nothing running on that CPU Core, allows for a more even distribution of the additional CPU Cores, #2,#3,#4...etc. as you load more instances of the player.


This would depend on what else is running, including the internal services of the operating system. It's the operating system that delegates and decides what runs on what core, not individual applications.


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## Raphioli (May 29, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I'm guessing this helps is because the first CPU Core #1 in a multicore system, is the one that gets overloaded, so having nothing running on that CPU Core, allows for a more even distribution of the additional CPU Cores, #2,#3,#4...etc. as you load more instances of the player.


That makes me wonder if VEPro would help. 
I'm aware that VEPro shouldn't be a requirement to run a library stably, but just crossed my mind.
(I don't own this library btw, although its in my wish list, hence checking this thread from time to time  )


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## muziksculp (May 29, 2022)

Raphioli said:


> That makes me wonder if VEPro would help.
> I'm aware that VEPro shouldn't be a requirement to run a library stably, but just crossed my mind.
> (I don't own this library btw, although its in my wish list, hence checking this thread from time to time  )


That's a good idea @Raphioli . Thanks  

I will test it in VEPro 7. and post some feedback on this thread.


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## muziksculp (May 29, 2022)

Hi @Raphioli ,

OK, did a fast test hosting it in VE-Pro 7 locally. 

I was able to use two mic options, with the ensemble, while Multi-Voice is enabled, playing many voices, fast, and no issues. I also tested using three mic options, and that was problematic. 

So, in conclusion, this library will run much better using VE-Pro 7. For those using this library, and have VSL VE-Pro 7, I highly recommend hosting it via VE-Pro 7. 

Thank You so much for the suggestion.  

I always forget about using VE-Pro to solve these types of issues, the last library I used VE-Pro 7 to fix was CineStrings Core. Hopefully CineSamples CineStrings Core ver. 2 will not require VE-Pro. Also hoping Spitfire Audio will improve this library via an update soon. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## muziksculp (May 29, 2022)

I should add that, just in case, I decided to insert an empty instance of AR2 IS, in the VE-Pro 7 Instance, just in case the first instance overloaded the first CPU Core, as it might do when hosting directly in the DAW.


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## muziksculp (May 29, 2022)

Love the sound of AR2 IS, especially the gritty, bite they have when playing the short articulations. I haven't used the legatos or sustains yet, but so far loving the way it sounds.

The first page of the mics seem to be only options for a variety of Mic Mixes, so only one of them is selectable, I can not have two enabled at the same time, (correct ?) , the second page of Mics are for selecting multiple mic options, and here I can select more than one mic, but having more than one mic can still stress out the system, when Multi-Voice ens. option is enabled, so I avoid doing that.

Note: This mic behavior is true if this option in the settings is enabled (see pic), otherwise you can freely enable any multiple mics you need.





I purchased this library when it was first released, and I just began discovering, and using it. So, using VE-Pro 7 would be the way to go when using it. It has so much character, and I can see them used for layering with other libraries as well.


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## boxofsparklers (May 29, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Love the sound of AR2 IS, especially the gritty, bite they have when playing the short articulations. I haven't used the legatos or sustains yet, but so far loving the way it sounds.
> 
> The first page of the mics seem to be only options for a variety of Mic Mixes, so only one of them is selectable, I can not have two enabled at the same time, (correct ?) , the second page of Mics are for selecting multiple mic options, and here I can select more than one mic, but having more than one mic can still stress out the system, when Multi-Voice ens. option is enabled, so I avoid doing that.
> 
> ...


You can turn that function off and have any mics working at the same time in the settings. Don't have it in front of me atm so can't tell you what the option is called though.


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## muziksculp (May 29, 2022)

boxofsparklers said:


> You can turn that function off and have any mics working at the same time in the settings. Don't have it in front of me atm so can't tell you what the option is called though.


Oh... I didn't know that. I was under the impression that was not possible. OK, I will check the settings. 

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.


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## muziksculp (May 29, 2022)

boxofsparklers said:


> You can turn that function off and have any mics working at the same time in the settings. Don't have it in front of me atm so can't tell you what the option is called though.


OK. Found it . Thanks


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## Mike Stone (Jul 27, 2022)

Any news about the upcoming patch for AR-2 mentioned a couple of months ago?


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## Kalli (Jul 28, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> Any news about the upcoming patch for AR-2 mentioned a couple of months ago?


No news yet, I’m afraid. SA support said they would keep me posted, but I haven’t heard from them since May.


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## holywilly (Jul 28, 2022)

What are the upcoming patches? I didn’t follow that.


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## Mike Stone (Jul 28, 2022)

Kalli said:


> No news yet, I’m afraid. SA support said they would keep me posted, but I haven’t heard from them since May.


Thanks, at least it's in the works. Maybe there were more issues to fix, so they're still working on it. Fingers crossed...


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## Kalli (Jul 28, 2022)

holywilly said:


> What are the upcoming patches? I didn’t follow that.








Spitfire Audio: Abbey Road Two - Iconic Strings


I really, REALLY like the tone of this library! I've been looking for a library like this for a long time. However, as others have pointed out, it is currently far from perfect when it comes to programming and editing. What I find most frustrating is that some dynamic crossfades are downright...



vi-control.net




https://vi-control.net/community/th...y-road-two-iconic-strings.118465/post-5110344


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## Francis Bourre (Jul 28, 2022)

@Spitfire Team @SpitfireSupport Any update?


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## Calagan (Aug 1, 2022)

Last christmas, I bought them Abbey Road 2 and Solo Violin. Both libraries are flawed (on solo violin, you can't play long notes without an absurd random rebow each 2s). 
Solo violin will never be fixed (I asked them), and actually I doubt AR2 will ever receive a patch. 
It's been months too that I'm waiting for Angular Strings to be compatible not only with the M1 chip, but at least with Monterey... This one too looks like abandonware...

I spent quite a lot of money on Spitfire libraries, because they sound truly great, but I'll never spend money on them anymore if I don't have a bit more trust.

Unfortunately, history repeats itself : the more a company is growing, the more it forget about its purpose (in this case, providing beautiful libraries you can use professionnaly) and tends to think only about marketing and short term profits... See PA, NI, iZotope, etc. etc. etc.


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## Rudianos (Aug 1, 2022)

Calagan said:


> Last christmas, I bought them Abbey Road 2 and Solo Violin. Both libraries are flawed


8 months and still no fix to the Violin 2 Portamento on Close Vintage mic. How long does that take to fix? No more money from me either. And I concur - the library sound fantastic


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## Cdnalsi (Aug 1, 2022)

Calagan said:


> [..] Angular Strings to be compatible not only with the M1 chip, but at least with Monterey... This one too looks like abandonware...


Have you tried installing the beta plugin for M1? I haven't this exact product, but have had beta installs for other that do not yet support M1 and Monterey, to great success.


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## Carson (Aug 27, 2022)

Perhaps this is due to my lack of mixing knowledge, but does anyone else find the violin 1 legato a bit annoying how left heavy it is?

Playing with the mono toggle doesn’t seem to do a whole lot.

Panning right you lose volume.

Am I doing something wrong?


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## Calagan (Oct 10, 2022)

October 2022. Almost one year after the release of AR2.
Still no fix to the various issues plenty of users documented in this thread.
I guess there will be no fix.
It’s a pity, I like the Spitfire libraries, but they are not reliable for pro use...


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## dzilizzi (Oct 10, 2022)

Calagan said:


> October 2022. Almost one year after the release of AR2.
> Still no fix to the various issues plenty of users documented in this thread.
> I guess there will be no fix.
> It’s a pity, I like the Spitfire libraries, but they are not reliable for pro use...


Did anyone report these issues to Spitfire? Just wondering.


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## Baronvonheadless (Oct 10, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> Did anyone report these issues to Spitfire? Just wondering.


Several.


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## carlc (Oct 10, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Several.


I don’t own AR2 but it is on my wishlist as a potential for BF. Maybe I’ll report the issues as well in the hopes they get prioritized for a fix before I purchase


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## Rudianos (Oct 10, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> Did anyone report these issues to Spitfire? Just wondering.


I did. I took the time to give the midi and audio files follow up with them consistently. This was back in January initially. These kinds of fixes shouldn't take a competent professional more than half of a day fix... Spitfire says that they prioritize things based off of how many complaints they get.

So my question is are they receiving an exorbitant amount of complaints about other products?

Anyways I think we should all keep pushing.


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## Delboy (Oct 10, 2022)

Guess they only reply to purchase requests only (what makes money not spends it) .... is there no-one on this forum that works for them who could be pointed to this complaint?


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## Mike Stone (Oct 10, 2022)

I also reported on these issues. Spitfire customer support told me after I asked for an update a few weeks ago, that they are “working on a patch and making good progress” (quoting from memory). The question is how long will this take, the patch should’ve been out by now. Hopefully there will actually be an officially released patch, but it will have to be a significant one to be worthwhile.


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## Baronvonheadless (Oct 10, 2022)

I keep bumping the thread I made for it on spitfire's own forums too tagging the mods and Paul and christian each time haha!


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## muziksculp (Oct 10, 2022)

They might be too busy working on AR-1 Modular Orchestra, and don't have the time or human resources to fix AR-2 Iconic Strings. I remember reporting it being a CPU resource hog, and loads too slow when it was released. So far they haven't bothered fixing it.


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## Rudianos (Oct 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> They might be too busy working on AR-1 Modular Orchestra, and don't have the time or human resources to fix AR-2 Iconic Strings. I remember reporting it being a CPU resource hog, and loads too slow when it was released. So far they haven't bothered fixing it.


it is a huge resource hog - by far the largest I have. Time to get a beer if loading a full patch


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## muziksculp (Oct 10, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> it is a huge resource hog - by far the largest I have. Time to get a beer if loading a full patch


Yup. and still no fix from Spitfire.


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## Rudianos (Oct 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Yup. and still no fix from Spitfire.


What really gets me on this one too if I ever want to switch microphones it takes forever to load the new one oh and then I want to go back to the other one it also takes forever


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## P3TAAL (Oct 10, 2022)

Wow I thought it was just me with the excruciatingly long load times in AR2. As soon as I get something I like I have to freeze the track to save me when I next open the project. It is strange that a company like SF completely ignores these issues. I'm not mad at you spitfire....just disappointed 😔


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## Baronvonheadless (Oct 10, 2022)

Yup^^

& then comically Fractured Strings loads the different microphones insanely fast, as well as Appassionata Strings, at a more reasonable length...AR2 is a nightmare.
It just SOUNDS so wonderful.
I'm curious, I feel like it would even clog a Mac studio ultra haha! Anyone have that & AR2 to talk about it's performance?


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## styledelk (Oct 10, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Yup^^
> 
> & then comically Fractured Strings loads the different microphones insanely fast, as well as Appassionata Strings, at a more reasonable length...AR2 is a nightmare.
> It just SOUNDS so wonderful.
> I'm curious, I feel like it would even clog a Mac studio ultra haha! Anyone have that & AR2 to talk about it's performance?


I'll try it out and see. Not sure if AR2 has a native client yet or not.


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## re201spaceecho (Oct 10, 2022)

Worst performing, best sounding short string library I own. I’ve actually converted most of it to EXS, trouble free at least for the short ensemble articulations.

For anyone on Logic, highly recommend Auto Sampler!


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## muziksculp (Oct 10, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Yup^^
> 
> & then comically Fractured Strings loads the different microphones insanely fast, as well as Appassionata Strings, at a more reasonable length...AR2 is a nightmare.
> It just SOUNDS so wonderful.
> I'm curious, I feel like it would even clog a Mac studio ultra haha! Anyone have that & AR2 to talk about it's performance?


I wonder what's the cause of the slow load time of AR-2 ?


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## GtrString (Oct 10, 2022)

Yeah, I would consider this library, but not in the current state with all the reports of being a ressource hog ect. 

Maybe a later version when the user reviews are more solid.


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## The Gost (Oct 11, 2022)

I have some libraries from Spitfire audio, Albion leg, Loegria, Solo strings leg, Mural 1, Orchestral piano, Tundra, OACE. I fell in love with the sound of Spitfire, but being in love and loving are two different things. I decided for the various reasons that many know to no longer buy instruments from them. Of course I was tempted by Abbey Road or SAS but......


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## Kalli (Oct 11, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> I also reported on these issues. Spitfire customer support told me after I asked for an update a few weeks ago, that they are “working on a patch and making good progress” (quoting from memory). The question is how long will this take, the patch should’ve been out by now. Hopefully there will actually be an officially released patch, but it will have to be a significant one to be worthwhile.


Yeah, that seems to be the standard answer. Five months ago they similarly told me that it "looks like the developers are getting close to the fix for this one. Once they confirm it it will move to QA and then release." Either they are very poor at estimating progress or they are simply lying to us. Either way, I've lost all trust in this company.


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## OrChester (Dec 29, 2022)

I just got through reading this entire thread. I'm somewhat of a newbie to orchestral libraries.

The numerous complaints about Spitfire's lack of any progress -- or even public mention --re: bug fixes after a year -- are dissuading me from last minute consideration of taking advantage of the Winter Sale to buy AR2IS -- which otherwise sounds appealing to me and like a good tool for me to grow into. (I'm assuming there is still no update.)

I try to avoid patronizing -- especially with large $ purchases -- companies that appear focused on new releases at the expense of fixing their existing products. This thread makes Spitfire seem like one of the worst offenders. Going solely by this thread makes their lack of attention to AR2IS sound hugely disappointing at best and reprehensible at worst.

I think I'll "vote with my wallet."


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## jazzman7 (Dec 29, 2022)

OrChester said:


> I just got through reading this entire thread. I'm somewhat of a newbie to orchestral libraries.
> 
> The numerous complaints about Spitfire's lack of any progress -- or even public mention --re: bug fixes after a year -- are dissuading me from last minute consideration of taking advantage of the Winter Sale to buy AR2IS -- which otherwise sounds appealing to me and like a good tool for me to grow into. (I'm assuming there is still no update.)
> 
> ...


It's pretty buggy, I agree. I have pro and right now it sits mostly idle. I just tried it earlier today and it is crashing my DAW. No other VI's are, so until I find out what's happening, AR2 is currently useless to me. YMMV but my 2 cents


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## carlc (Dec 29, 2022)

jazzman7 said:


> It's pretty buggy, I agree. I have pro and right now it sits mostly idle. I just tried it earlier today and it is crashing my DAW. No other VI's are, so until I find out what's happening, AR2 is currently useless to me. YMMV but my 2 cents


With BBCSO Pro I can drop down to Core or even Discover editions which significantly reduced the footprint. Is there a similar option with AR2 Pro if you don’t want to run the Pro edition?


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## Kalli (Dec 29, 2022)

OrChester said:


> The numerous complaints about Spitfire's lack of any progress -- or even public mention --re: bug fixes after a year -- are dissuading me from last minute consideration of taking advantage of the Winter Sale to buy AR2IS -- which otherwise sounds appealing to me and like a good tool for me to grow into. (I'm assuming there is still no update.)


Yeah, this library has been a disappointment so far. For what it's worth, I've just sent the following in the support thread on the issues that I reported a year ago. It pretty much sums up how I feel about this:

"It's been a year since I submitted these issues. More than half a year ago you let me know that you were close to a fix, but I've heard nothing since. Can you give me a status update?

I'm usually a patient person, but I must say that the lack of updates of this product has been a huge disappointment. I'm not alone; over at VI-control, there's a long thread on these issues and there is consensus that they have not been handled properly by Spitfire Audio. Several users describe that they, like myself, currently cannot use the library because of the bugs. Others, who have contemplated purchasing the library, have been put off by the fact that it seems to be abandonware.

I'm saying this mostly because I think this library has excellent potential and deserves a better fate (and, of course, we all want value for our money). But also because I think Spitfire Audio should be concerned with the fact that its strategy of releasing new libraries in a rapid pace, without addressing glaring issues in existing products, is provoking to many users and erodes customers' trust in the company. I realize that whoever is reading this is not personally responsible for this, so I apologize for the harsh tone. But I think this is something that needs to be communicated to the top brass of the company."

I'll let you know when I get a response.


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## Drjay (Dec 29, 2022)

After reading lots of posts regarding AR2 it appears to me especially the Pro version is affected by bugs. Is that correct, or should I also refrain from buying the standard version (I am aware the portamento is missing)? Thanks


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## P3TAAL (Dec 29, 2022)

Drjay said:


> After reading lots of posts regarding AR2 it appears to me especially the Pro version is affected by bugs. Is that correct, or should I also refrain from buying the standard version (I am aware the portamento is missing)? Thanks


it's a funny thing because if it was anything else we would demand our money back and to be honest as the bugs are this bad I think they would have to pay up or fix them, I mean if you really demanded and if the ombudsman got involved.
It's a real shame as I really like the sound of this library and the people at spitfire seem nice enough. Bought quite some time ago but have only used it on one song due to the insanely long loading times. I always tend to reach for somthing that loads quicker then just keep it.


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## Rudianos (Dec 29, 2022)

Drjay said:


> After reading lots of posts regarding AR2 it appears to me especially the Pro version is affected by bugs. Is that correct, or should I also refrain from buying the standard version (I am aware the portamento is missing)? Thanks


Yep you're right there's no portamento in the core. So I don't know if that's important to you or not. But my bug issues primarily are the various close and ribbon mics through the different instruments Miss triggering portamento.

Mix A and mix b work fine. 

If I did it over again I would have gotten core. I think it's worth the $150 or whatever it is now.

There's at least six bugs that I've seen and I can work around them. But I really don't like the idea that a new library didn't get one even token update this year. And we were all on those reports. It would have been such a simple fix for them such a simple fix. This is my biggest issue.

But hey the sound is great it's a good pop, rock sound there's a lot of details so you can really put it up front. The shorts are great the flautandos are very nice. Not the most expressive Legato but it gets the job done.


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## Kalli (Dec 29, 2022)

Kalli said:


> I'll let you know when I get a response.


Well, that was unexpected! I got a reply within a couple of hours saying that there is a fix for the issues and that an update has been pushed to my account. It doesn't show up in the Spitfire app, however, so I can't say whether the issues have been resolved. I'll keep you posted.

In the meantime, I'd appreciate if some owner of the library could check their version number. In the Spitfire (download) app, it says I have 1.0.2 for the Resources component and 1.0.3 for the Professional component. However, inspecting the AU and VST files they seem to be 1.0.0, and the GUI in my DAW (Logic) also says 1.0.0. I've no idea why this is so, but it would be great to know whether or not it is specific to my local machine.


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## Rudianos (Dec 29, 2022)

Kalli said:


> Well, that was unexpected! I got a reply within a couple of hours saying that there is a fix for the issues and that an update has been pushed to my account. It doesn't show up in the Spitfire app, however, so I can't say whether the issues have been resolved. I'll keep you posted.
> 
> In the meantime, I'd appreciate if some owner of the library could check their version number. In the Spitfire (download) app, it says I have 1.0.2 for the Resources component and 1.0.3 for the Professional component. However, inspecting the AU and VST files they seem to be 1.0.0, and the GUI in my DAW (Logic) also says 1.0.0. I've no idea why this is so, but it would be great to know whether or not it is specific to my local machine.


Yes my resources are 1.0.2 and the other larger file is 1.0.3... same thing as it's been for a year now since release


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## Kalli (Dec 29, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Yes my resources are 1.0.2 and the other larger file is 1.0.3... same thing as it's been for a year now since release


Thanks for checking! Does it still say 1.0.0 in the GUI?


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## Rudianos (Dec 29, 2022)

Kalli said:


> Thanks for checking! Does it still say 1.0.0 in the GUI?


yes it does


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## orange (Dec 29, 2022)

Kalli said:


> Well, that was unexpected! I got a reply within a couple of hours saying that there is a fix for the issues and that an update has been pushed to my account.


that's interesting (and unexpected !) - also why are they not pushing up the update to everyone ?

I have an open ticket with Spitfire for this and was last told, by SA support, in November



> Regarding updates to Abbey Road Two, all reported issues are still being investigated and fixes implemented, once there is a version to release, and as you have an on-hold ticket with us, we will let you know.


All a bit random IMO.


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## Kalli (Dec 29, 2022)

orange said:


> that's interesting (and unexpected !) - also why are they not pushing up the update to everyone ?
> 
> I have an open ticket with Spitfire for this and was last told, by SA support, in November
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's puzzling. The only reasons I can think of are (a) that they have a fix for the specific issues that I reported, but not for all of them, (b) that they haven't yet done quality control and do not consider it ready for public release, or (c) that they've raised the priority for this and the update will be pushed to all owners shortly. Either way, I'd much rather see smaller incremental updates that take care of a few issues at a time than waiting a long time for something that's supposed to address all the issues at once.

I've let them know that I still haven't received the update, so I still don't know if the issues have been fixed. When I hear back from them, I'll ask whether we can expect this to be publicly released anytime soon.


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## OrChester (Dec 29, 2022)

This is all very ineresting to hear. Many thanks, Kalli, for the info and for sending Spitfire such a perfectly articulated letter! I think their Winter Sale ends on Jan 1? (Can anyone confirm?). I'm still reluctant to go forward prior to knowing definitively that they have addressed all the issues. 

I had been leaning towards the Pro version, not as much for the portamento, but based on what many have described about the sounds of the the alternate mixes -- which, as described, sound like they'd be more useful for my usage. 

But I don't like making "panic buys" just to take advantage of a sale -- only to buy a "defective" product! So if anyone has any further info about what if/what they actually updated and fixed, I'd love to hear. Thanks!


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## OrChester (Dec 29, 2022)

And PS -- if they really are making fixes -- why doesn't someone from Spitfire provide some sort of announcement or post on this thread? I have no idea if they normally participate in VI Control...but this seems like it would be a pretty good time them to post!


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## tjr (Dec 29, 2022)

Is there a summary of the known bugs?


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## jazzman7 (Dec 29, 2022)

tjr said:


> Is there a summary of the known bugs?


Not sure about that but as of right now, nothing has been fixed since a slight update very early in the release. The problems have actually grown worse and now I find it unuseable. Switching arts causes it to hang both times I tried recently, even tho I had used it in the past. No other instrument I have displays this behavior. I have not gotten to the bottom of if it yet, but hope to soon. YMMV


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## tjr (Dec 29, 2022)

jazzman7 said:


> Not sure about that but as of right now, nothing has been fixed since a slight update very early in the release. The problems have actually grown worse and now I find it unuseable. Switching arts causes it to hang both times I tried recently, even tho I had used it in the past. No other instrument I have displays this behavior. I have not gotten to the bottom of if it yet, but hope to soon. YMMV


I just recently got the professional edition -- so far the only bug I've noticed is sometimes toggling once microphone position off turns off all of them, but it seems only a minor fluke.

Was just curious to see if, deliberately trying to reproduce them, if I saw the same bugs as others or not.

Running Logic Pro on MacOS 13 with an i5 Intel processor here.


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## madfloyd (Dec 29, 2022)

I gave up on this library once I tried changing articulations - the player just chokes. YMMV but I don't think I'd ever use it again.


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## holywilly (Dec 30, 2022)

Try lower the voice count from 512 to at least 64 will help the performance of this library. At least the polyphonic playing won't have chock issue at the voice of 64.


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## Francis Bourre (Dec 30, 2022)

Waiting for the update, let's see...


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## orange (Dec 31, 2022)

Kalli said:


> I've let them know that I still haven't received the update, so I still don't know if the issues have been fixed. When I hear back from them, I'll ask whether we can expect this to be publicly released anytime soon.


did you have any updates in the SA app ? or any response from Support ? 

I'm interested to see if the update is in the plugin or in the samples themselves ?


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## Kalli (Jan 1, 2023)

orange said:


> did you have any updates in the SA app ? or any response from Support ?
> 
> I'm interested to see if the update is in the plugin or in the samples themselves ?


I still haven't received the update. They did reply saying that they are waiting for confirmation from the team as to which specific part to send and that most of the company was out on holiday. So I expect to hear back from them in the coming week.


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## synthnut1 (Jan 1, 2023)

I’ve wanted to purchase this library from day one, but have let others have a go of it to flush it out…After following this thread, it appears that nothing has been done to fix any problems….It would be nice if developers fixed their mistakes before moving on to new projects….🤷‍♂️


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## Calagan (Jan 3, 2023)

I wanted to buy few things from Spitfire during their last end of the year sale, but I did not. I don't want to spend 10 days on internet checking if a library is actually usable each time I want to buy them something that sounds good on youtube...
I lost trust with all the issues I had with the last two libraries I bought from them. They don't have demo and they even don't make refund.


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## orange (Jan 3, 2023)

Kalli said:


> I still haven't received the update. They did reply saying that they are waiting for confirmation from the team as to which specific part to send and that most of the company was out on holiday. So I expect to hear back from them in the coming week.


Spitfire support just informed me that no fixes for AR2 are available ?


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## Calagan (Jan 3, 2023)

Kalli said:


> Well, that was unexpected! I got a reply within a couple of hours saying that there is a fix for the issues and that an update has been pushed to my account. It doesn't show up in the Spitfire app, however, so I can't say whether the issues have been resolved. I'll keep you posted.
> 
> In the meantime, I'd appreciate if some owner of the library could check their version number. In the Spitfire (download) app, it says I have 1.0.2 for the Resources component and 1.0.3 for the Professional component. However, inspecting the AU and VST files they seem to be 1.0.0, and the GUI in my DAW (Logic) also says 1.0.0. I've no idea why this is so, but it would be great to know whether or not it is specific to my local machine.


Same versions here also... It's great they have a fix, but is it in their dreams or does it exist in the real world ? Or maybe it is a marketing tactic to announce something everybody expects without working on the delivery (like magical thinking) ?


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## Kalli (Jan 3, 2023)

orange said:


> Spitfire support just informed me that no fixes for AR2 are available ?


A quick update: I finally received and managed to install the update. To my disappointment, the reported issues still persist. I did a little digging, though, and I think the Spitfire player is still using the old patches. Long story short: There are two folders with patches named 1.0.2 and 1.0.4. The log file shows that, for some reason, the patches in 1.0.2 are still being used. I've tried different approaches to force the player to look in the 1.0.4 folder, but nothing works. So I guess Spitfire will need to change something in their code.

I've updated Spitfire support about this and will hopefully get a quick response this time.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 3, 2023)

Wonder if @Karma worked on this one and if so, had some thoughts.


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## Karma (Jan 3, 2023)

Kalli said:


> A quick update: I finally received and managed to install the update. To my disappointment, the reported issues still persist. I did a little digging, though, and I think the Spitfire player is still using the old patches. Long story short: There are two folders with patches named 1.0.2 and 1.0.4. The log file shows that, for some reason, the patches in 1.0.2 are still being used. I've tried different approaches to force the player to look in the 1.0.4 folder, but nothing works. So I guess Spitfire will need to change something in their code.
> 
> I've updated Spitfire support about this and will hopefully get a quick response this time.


This is odd, just to check, have you deleted those 1.0.2 patches/presets and tried then? Maybe just back those up first in case


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## orange (Jan 3, 2023)

Kalli said:


> A quick update: I finally received and managed to install the update


odd that they told me that there were no updates available ?

was the player software updated or was it just patches ?


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## Kalli (Jan 3, 2023)

orange said:


> was the player software updated or was it just patches ?


Just the patches it seems.


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## Kalli (Jan 3, 2023)

Karma said:


> This is odd, just to check, have you deleted those 1.0.2 patches/presets and tried then? Maybe just back those up first in case


Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I’ve temporarily removed the 1.0.2 patches, but that gives an error saying that the required patches are missing. I’ve also tried renaming the 1.0.4 folder to 1.0.2 (to force the player to look in that one), but the same error happens.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 3, 2023)

So, I still have the same bug I always have had. Maybe I'll fill a ticket but I remember MULTIPLE people filling a ticket for this specific issue over a year ago and it hasn't been fixed yet so I figured why bother, but maybe I'll go for it finally.
(the bug is Violin 2 using the Close Vintage mic, portamento is triggering weird ass notes an octave lower).
That said, all this talk about it made me dig out the library because I stopped doing so awhile ago.

I can use literally any other legato mic and its fine I think. Also the close vintage mic has no bugs on the shorts, which are the stand out of this library.
Pulled it out just now and instantly came up with this little noodle, and with all the bugs, it is STILL an amazing library. I wish they would dedicate time to making the fixes, because with no bugs, it's definitely one of their best and most useful products I own.


View attachment AR2 new Sketch.mp3


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 3, 2023)

However, here is the aforementioned bug.
this is me, violin 2, close vintage mic, walking up the keyboard chromatically and then down. Using the legato.


View attachment Abbey Road 2 2nd violin bug close vintage mic.mp3


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## jbuhler (Jan 3, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> However, here is the aforementioned bug.
> this is me, violin 2, close vintage mic, walking up the keyboard chromatically and then down. Using the legato.
> 
> 
> View attachment Abbey Road 2 2nd violin bug close vintage mic.mp3


Wild!


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## FireGS (Jan 3, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> However, here is the aforementioned bug.
> this is me, violin 2, close vintage mic, walking up the keyboard chromatically and then down. Using the legato.
> 
> 
> View attachment Abbey Road 2 2nd violin bug close vintage mic.mp3


Needed a laugh. And a cry.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 3, 2023)

FireGS said:


> Needed a laugh. And a cry.


Yeah I’ve finally filled a ticket. I know at least 3-4 members here did so a year ago but figured I finally would. 

Previously I had posted about it multiple times on their own message board, and blasted on social media to no avail.


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## orange (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> because with no bugs, it's definitely one of their best and most useful products I own.


agreed - which is why Spitfire's 'release and run' attitude to their libraries is so disappointing.


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## Mr Sakitumi (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> However, here is the aforementioned bug.
> this is me, violin 2, close vintage mic, walking up the keyboard chromatically and then down. Using the legato.
> 
> 
> View attachment Abbey Road 2 2nd violin bug close vintage mic.mp3


Should be called the close drunk 🍻 mic 🎤 😂


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## chrisav (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> However, here is the aforementioned bug.
> this is me, violin 2, close vintage mic, walking up the keyboard chromatically and then down. Using the legato.
> 
> 
> View attachment Abbey Road 2 2nd violin bug close vintage mic.mp3


Not to be rude, but you've clearly activated the secret avant garde mic option on this one 🤷‍♂️ smh


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## Karmand (Jan 4, 2023)

Its a feature not a bug… solo drunk comedy patch


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

Now that I think about it. How funny would it have been if I wrote and submitted a piece for their ‘random acts of kindness’ giveaway using this violin/mic signal!


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

I’m on a tear. Fight me.

This bug has been there since day one.

I’m very excited.


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## chrisav (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Now that I think about it. How funny would it have been if I wrote and submitted a piece for their ‘random acts of kindness’ giveaway using this violin/mic signal!


Could've named the piece 'random intervals of madness', would've been an instant Grammy award


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 4, 2023)

orange said:


> agreed - which is why Spitfire's 'release and run' attitude to their libraries is so disappointing.


They literally just released new patches for libraries that are nearly 10 years old (symphonic brass and winds). Take it down a notch.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> They literally just released new patches for libraries that are nearly 10 years old (symphonic brass and winds). Take it down a notch.


Be like Abbey Road 2 violin 2. Go up a few notes to go down a few notches. 

On second thought, is THIS why Jasper avoided second violins? 

Those sections all must have alcohol problems.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Be like Abbey Road 2 violin 2. Go up a few notes to go down a few notches.
> 
> On second thought, is THIS why Jasper avoided second violins?
> 
> Those sections all must have alcohol problems.


You sound so entitled...


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You sound so entitled...


Stop shaming me.


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## ibanez1 (Jan 4, 2023)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You sound so entitled...


I have bought quite a few spitfire libraries at this point and many of them are excellent. That being said, if I had bought this library and started playing a legato patch only to find that it literally plays the wrong notes on transitions, I would be pissed.

If I and others then filed tickets for the issue, knowing that it was most likely just a programming fix in the player and still to this day there was no solution while other new releases from spitfire kept dropping, I would be even more pissed.

Working in the tech industry as a day job, every design team I've ever worked with knows one thing: you don't continue putting all your effort in the shiny new products if one of your recent releases is riddled with bugs. Your recent products pay the bills so you can make the new products.

I give more leeway to boutique sample library developers. Spitfire isn't in that category.

And no it's not ok to ignore fixing the issue just because it's 2nd violins, 3rd celli, or 12th violas .


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

ibanez1 said:


> I have bought quite a few spitfire libraries at this point and many of them are excellent. That being said, if I had bought this library and started playing a legato patch only to find that it literally plays the wrong notes on transitions, I would be pissed.
> 
> If I and others then filed tickets for the issue, knowing that it was most likely just a programming fix in the player and still to this day there was no solution while other new releases from spitfire kept dropping, I would be even more pissed.
> 
> ...


He’s taking the piss and carrying over some assumed beef from another thread. Where a poster said he expects a one man show developer to create legato patches for non legato instruments because it wouldn’t really be that much work and he wants it. Even tho that specific library has separate legato patches. 

Imo that is entitlement. 

In this case, expecting an ACTUAL PORTAMENTO legato patch to work on an EXTRA mic signal (which both are the reasons one paid EXTRA for the professional version of this library) is not entitlement. 

It is bamboozlement from the developer. If I didn’t want extra mics or working portamento I would have bought core.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 4, 2023)

^ Indeed I was making a reference to the pacific thread.

And keep in mind, I tagged the Spitfire dev into this thread. They should certainly fix glaring issues. They are on the whole slow at fixes - but they have shown they continue to support libraries released even years ago with updates and fixes. Slowly.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

When Paul Thomson was taking Instagram polls on ‘what we’d like to see next from abbey road’ I replied ‘working legato and bug fixes from abbey road 2 iconic strings’. 

Surprisingly he wasn’t terribly excited to share my answer. 

🤷🏻‍♂️😈

I’ve brought it up to the top, the mid tier and now at long last the support team. 

I could use any other mic, but I really love that close vintage.


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## Kalli (Jan 4, 2023)

Latest response from Spitfire support. Turns out the update isn't so near after all...

"Apologies, we may have jumped the gun here.

I just heard back again and they've said there were issues discovered in the new build that was going to have this fix in it. So I'm sorry to say this isn't sorted just yet. 

The different versions in the patches folder - that's normal, just leave those in place. 

Apologies but we'll still need to hold on for this one. I've messaged to product manager to let them know this is pressing since it's been over a year. They have a meeting tomorrow, and I'll request my colleague brings this up for there as well."


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## ibanez1 (Jan 4, 2023)

As a small aside, looking at this bug as a quality assurance issue, i'm surprised nobody has automated a test suite for this class of bugs (would be useful for all library developers). Basically just a midi stream which forces every legato transition on each patch for the playable range and then has a tuner plugin which measures the dominant harmonic pitch and makes sure it matches the midi for both the before and after pitches of the transition. Then a script just catalogues the results and signals pass or fail. 

You would only write the tester once and you could use it for any legato / sustain patch on any library. Actually it can be generalized to work for any tonal instrument.


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## jbuhler (Jan 4, 2023)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> ^ Indeed I was making a reference to the pacific thread.
> 
> And keep in mind, I tagged the Spitfire dev into this thread. They should certainly fix glaring issues. They are on the whole slow at fixes - but they have shown they continue to support libraries released even years ago with updates and fixes. Slowly.


The thing is SF didn't used to be this slow about fixing problems as egregious as this. The problems are severe enough and the fixes slow enough in coming that it makes me wonder if there isn't something about the basic framework of the library that makes the fix in this case harder than usual or harder than it seems it should be. Of course if that's the case you'd expect that SF would own up to it.

That said, I also have found that the support for SF libraries has been steady over the years, and the updates often contain surprising new functionality at no cost.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 4, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> The thing is SF didn't used to be this slow about fixing problems as egregious as this. The problems are severe enough and the fixes slow enough in coming that it makes me wonder if there isn't something about the basic framework of the library that makes the fix in this case harder than usual or harder than it seems it should be. Of course if that's the case you'd expect that SF would own up to it.
> 
> That said, I also have found that the support for SF libraries has been steady over the years, and the updates often contain surprising new functionality at no cost.


OT did take a year to fix the mic merge issue with BSS - I think due to some technical challenges (or maybe just due to how they prioritized it). I wonder if Spitfire has reproduced some of the more glaring issues in this thread or not.


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## jbuhler (Jan 4, 2023)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> OT did take a year to fix the mic merge issue with BSS - I think due to some technical challenges (or maybe just due to how they prioritized it). I wonder if Spitfire has reproduced some of the more glaring issues in this thread or not.


Yeah. That was irritating even though I don't in fact much use it! But mic merge also never kept you from using a particular microphone unless your setup is not robust enough to load all the mics you want to use. SF libraries do often have issues on release, but glaring issues that are not related to problems in the underlying samples are usually fixed in a first update within a month or so of release.


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## Baronvonheadless (Monday at 5:07 PM)

Disappointing but unsurprising news from my ticket. 

“Hi Michael

Thank you for your message and apologies for the delay, we are currently experiencing a high volume of customer enquiries and this is impacting our response times. 

Our engineering team are aware of this issue on the Violins 2 patch and are currently working on a fix as a priority. 

When they are able to give me feedback on the issue, I will update you accordingly. For now, I will put this ticket on-hold, but do let me know if you have any further issues or questions.

In the meantime, thank you for your patience.

All the best
*******”


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## jamie8 (Yesterday at 7:12 AM)

Ya im disappointed as well, no more money from me until they fix the main bugs atleast, as far as im concerned its kinda like buying a new car on all the hyped up promises and only to find out the brakes are shoddy and you need to change the oil every 100 k or the engine siezes,…. Its a car it does work but its not what is and was promised, and to top it off they the manufacturer does not seem to want to o maybe is not able to fix the thing… im tired of the excuses.


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## Calagan (Yesterday at 7:24 AM)

Yep, very disappointing indeed...
Especially that I don't think they are starving to death and are short on ressources - so it's not by necessity, it's by choice.
I'm not even sure they will ever fix that : I bought one year ago the solo violin and it's unplayable when using long notes due to an absurd random re-bowing. They could fix that, but they will not and don't care at all...
One could say that you buy a specific VI with it's pro and con, but issue is there is no demo and no refund policy so you buy from them based on trust (or hours of internet research). 
Since AR2 and this solo violin issue, I've lost trust. I'll never buy anything more from them.
The next money I will spend for VIs will be for Hollywood Opus or some Audio Imperia stuff (I'm very impressed by Solo for the price, it's limited to simple lines but it sounds truly great - I guess the rest of the catalogue is of the same quality).


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