# Wife argues with me because I don't like the 'trailer' type music she just got



## Robert_G (Jul 8, 2019)

So she found this orchestrated song and album she likes....I'm not even sure what it is....it sucks...so I don't care.

It's the basic 4 note repetition done with chords
Strings, some synth, not much else...trying to be relaxing and engaging...yet
Every set of notes and a crescendo or something else is added....nothing more.

Rinse and repeat.
Not one bar representing lyrical anything. Forgettable as the yesterday's drive to work.

She's upset because I'm not open to it. I like lyrical stuff. John Williams, Classical....etc.
I'd rather hear music like Hedwick's theme from Harry Potter.

So I ask her the million dollar question: "Could you hum or sing the tune of this song you like if it wasn't playing in front of you?"

She pauses....thinks about it....."No...probably not" I say "Exactly why I don't like that type of music. It's so forgettable....but on the other hand I could hum Hedwick's theme to you any place anytime at the right beat and the right tempo not missing a note because that's how lyrical and memorable it is."

Also, she's finished her royal conservatory in Piano. She's played the most technical classical pieces that I could never dream of playing....and she's good at it....pieces that I love to hum along to...very memorable....and now she wants me to like this crap stuff she found somewhere I don't know.

I realize that music is 'art' and everyone's taste in art is different. I get it, but is it not as simple as this: "If you can't remember the tune....it's not good enough to be worth remembering." 

The best music out there is stuff that you can sing in your sleep....no?


----------



## StevenMcDonald (Jul 8, 2019)

Congratulations, you have discovered subjective opinions. It's perfectly okay if your wife likes music you don't like, and no it's not "as simple" as you described.


----------



## chillbot (Jul 8, 2019)

My wife likes Jonas Brothers. Wanna trade wives?


----------



## erica-grace (Jul 8, 2019)

Sounds like you need a new wife.

Or maybe she needs a new husband?


----------



## StevenMcDonald (Jul 8, 2019)

erica-grace said:


> Sounds like you need a new wife.
> 
> Or maybe she needs a new husband?



It's definitely a husband problem, unless his wife also made a thread on some other forum complaining about him liking different music.


----------



## erica-grace (Jul 8, 2019)

StevenMcDonald said:


> nless his wife also made a thread on some other forum complaining about him liking different music.



Well, if _that's_ the case, then they both need a new spouse.


----------



## Robert_G (Jul 8, 2019)

StevenMcDonald said:


> It's definitely a husband problem, unless his wife also made a thread on some other forum complaining about him liking different music.



Whoa....I didn't walk in trashing her music.
She basically painted me into a corner wanting me to like her music.
So I tried to explain to her my reasoning...which is valid like hers or anyone else's.

At the end of the day....I was actually keeping to myself (meaning I wasn't looking for a music argument with her)....I did NOT volunteer to get into an argument with her....as arguments about art are pointless...but since I was in a corner....I gave her my opinion on why I like some music and don't like other music....is that wrong?​


----------



## JJP (Jul 8, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> I was actually keeping to myself


Wait, we're on the internet, right?


----------



## Robert_G (Jul 8, 2019)

StevenMcDonald said:


> and no it's not "as simple" as you described.



Just out of curiosity...and maybe it's me.....but what's the point of listening to music that you easily forget 15 minutes later?


----------



## rottoy (Jul 8, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Just out of curiosity...and maybe it's me.....but what's the point of listening to music that you easily forget 15 minutes later?


What's the point of eating a dinky cheeseburger that will make you hungry again 15 minutes later? 
Because you enjoy that sliver of pleasure.


----------



## StevenMcDonald (Jul 8, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Just out of curiosity...and maybe it's me.....but what's the point of listening to music that you easily forget 15 minutes later?



Not being able to hum it doesn't mean you've forgotten it. There is more to music than melody. Rhythm, harmony/chords, emotion, memory associations, overall vibes. Stuff you can't just reduce down to one voice and hum.


----------



## Polkasound (Jul 8, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Just out of curiosity...and maybe it's me.....but what's the point of listening to music that you easily forget 15 minutes later?



Sometimes it's the mood it puts you in, and that can be something as simple as a beat without a melody.


----------



## patrick76 (Jul 8, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> The best music out there is stuff that you can sing in your sleep....no?


I would say no....and yes. Personally, some of my favorites I could sing in my sleep, others not so much. I certainly don't measure a piece's value in that manner. I don't feel the need to measure music like that. Could you sing Rite of Spring, or Penderecki's Threnody?


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Jul 8, 2019)

nothing worse than a catchy melody in your head while trying to sleep


----------



## chillbot (Jul 8, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> nothing worse than a catchy melody in your head while trying to sleep


I'll try to stop singing at night sorry.


----------



## Saxer (Jul 8, 2019)

Two mistakes.
Don't argue about taste.
Don't argue with wife.


----------



## Robert_G (Jul 8, 2019)

Saxer said:


> Don't argue with wife.



Like I said.....I was trying to keep to myself. I've been married long enough to see an argument coming miles away....but she painted me into a corner.

I do stand by what I say about music needing to be good enough to remember...but like everyone said....that's my opinion...some share it some don't....I'm fine with that....but if someone asks me for my opinion (including my wife)…..I should be able to say it without fear of death.


----------



## CT (Jul 8, 2019)

patrick76 said:


> Could you sing Rite of Spring



Can and do, actually....


----------



## MartinH. (Jul 8, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Just out of curiosity...and maybe it's me.....but what's the point of listening to music that you easily forget 15 minutes later?



It might put you in a mood that you still will remember 15 minutes later. And the next time you listen to it, there's the added anticipation of the mood it caused the last time. 

There's plenty of un-singable stuff that I love and that instantly reminds me of certain moods or experiences. 




Robert_G said:


> Forgettable as the yesterday's drive to work.


You say that as if a drive to work _can not _be enjoyed under any circumstances. Maybe check this out:


----------



## patrick76 (Jul 8, 2019)

miket said:


> Can and do, actually....


Fair enough. I suppose I should have pointed to specific moments in the piece that are not that singable. Realized that as soon as I posted. The point I was trying to make is what Steven McDonald stated much clearer.


----------



## jtnyc (Jul 8, 2019)

StevenMcDonald said:


> Not being able to hum it doesn't mean you've forgotten it. There is more to music than melody. Rhythm, harmony/chords, emotion, memory associations, overall vibes. Stuff you can't just reduce down to one voice and hum.


Exactly


----------



## CT (Jul 8, 2019)

patrick76 said:


> Fair enough. I suppose I should have pointed to specific moments in the piece that are not that singable. Realized that as soon as I posted. The point I was trying to make is what Steven McDonald stated much clearer.



I think you made your point fine! I was just trying to be funny. I do actually find myself whistling/humming/chanting snatches from that piece at weird times.


----------



## givemenoughrope (Jul 8, 2019)

There is a concept called “Pick your battles”...
Since you’ve already picked this one and she knows that you aren’t into this music then just say, “It’s ok. We can listen to this if you want.” Bc then you win...


----------



## chillbot (Jul 8, 2019)

I don't know if books is a good analogy but sometimes you just want turn off your brain and lose yourself in a good page-turner. I love Lee Child for this, personally. There are more intellectual books with stronger "themes" and all that. Which I also enjoy. But sometimes I just want music to set a mood and relax without activating the thinking/analysis part of my brain. I love Zero-7 for this, personally.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 8, 2019)

The secret is a subservient wife who agrees with everything I say and never argues with me.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 8, 2019)

I recommend StepfordWives.com if you're looking.


----------



## SergeD (Jul 8, 2019)

You must replicate with massive weapons like this one 



She soon should resign and never argue again


----------



## SchnookyPants (Jul 8, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> ... if someone asks me for my opinion (including my wife)…..I should be able to say it without fear of death.



Wong.

Be _vewy_ afwaid.


----------



## InLight-Tone (Jul 8, 2019)

There's something to be said as to the craft of writing music that appeals to the masses. Certainly more lucrative...


----------



## InLight-Tone (Jul 8, 2019)

chillbot said:


> I don't know if books is a good analogy but sometimes you just want turn off your brain and lose yourself in a good page-turner. I love Lee Child for this, personally. There are more intellectual books with stronger "themes" and all that. Which I also enjoy. But sometimes I just want music to set a mood and relax without activating the thinking/analysis part of my brain. I love Zero-7 for this, personally.


I like Criminal Minds for that...


----------



## oks2024 (Jul 8, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> I get it, but is it not as simple as this: "If you can't remember the tune....it's not good enough to be worth remembering."



No it's not .
It feels a bit like you do not realize it is just an opinion, not a fact, and that it only applies to you.

The fact that you can not remember a tune does not make it intrinsically good or bad, it's just one parameter you chose to define the type of music you might not like, or might not want to make. And I think it's a really good thing that you are able to define what you don't like this way.

You've probably noticed that music that lack "transportability" is very popular right now, it's everywhere in trailers and movie soundtracks. So if a lot of people like it, it might mean that it's good is some way. You might not like it, and that's perfectly fine, but if you reduce it to "it's bad music and people like it because they have bad taste" you miss so much from what you could learn.

I used to think that pop or electro/techno/house/whatever was just stupid and ultra simple music created by talentless people. But when I started to dive into music production I found several tutorial made by those people, and well, I learned a lot. They know exactly what they are doing, they know their audience, they know what aspects they need to master to make a great electro track. It's just that these aspects do not speak to me. I still don't like this kind of music, but I have a lot more respect for those making it.

It could also be interesting to understand why people like that kind of music, be able to reproduce it, and then use that to bring them to the kind of music you like. Starting with something simple and familiar seems to be a good way to develop into something more complex or not "in vogue" as some would say.

Obviously everything I just said is not fact, it's just my opinion, but as you seemed to ask for opinions, here is mine ^^.


----------



## MisteR (Jul 8, 2019)

I think I just strained something trying to hum György Ligeti.


----------



## Robert_G (Jul 8, 2019)

oks2024 said:


> No it's not .
> It feels a bit like you do not realize it is just an opinion, not a fact, and that it only applies to you.



Ok...you don't have to be like that. I was just giving my opinion that I think music should be memorable and show a little talent in the composition. I guess I just can't understand how 4 notes + 4 chords + a few crescendos and some synth...rinse and repeat classifies as 'talented' composing....I just don't get it.



oks2024 said:


> You've probably noticed that music that lack "transportability" is very popular right now, it's everywhere in trailers and movie soundtracks. So if a lot of people like it, it might mean that it's good is some way. You might not like it, and that's perfectly fine, but if you reduce it to "it's bad music and people like it because they have bad taste" you miss so much from what you could learn.



And again....IMO you just identified the problem. If you gave me 5 trailers to listen to that I already watched....I can guarantee you I could never identify which is which. They all sound the same and even though they might sound cool at the time....they are so forgettable that they go in my mind and out of a few minutes later.

Again....my opinion only...but how can you compare that to something like Hedwick's theme that is so memorable....something that you can find yourself humming to without even knowing it.I don't know....I just don't see how the two are comparable....but that's just me I guess..


----------



## CGR (Jul 8, 2019)

Although I don't regard music without a distinct melody as forgettable and the work of the untalented (some of my favourite art & music is impressionistic and abstract) this is an interesting video in regards to memorable and forgettable movie themes:


----------



## Morning Coffee (Jul 8, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> So I ask her the million dollar question: "Could you hum or sing the tune of this song you like if it wasn't playing in front of you?"
> 
> The best music out there is stuff that you can sing in your sleep....no?




I agree with you on the point, "could you hum or sing the tune". Is the music memorable, is it catchy? That is always a positive thing for music I think, and I try to apply it to my own stuff. At the same time I don't necessarily think the best music is stuff that you can sing in your sleep.

I'm a self taught musician and I like heavy metal music and classic rock music (cringe!). For me personally, music has mainly been about emotion. This can come from memorable lyrical lines, a great guitar riff or minimalist ambient music. I get enjoyment from many forms of music but not all.

Music can also serve a purpose and not be memorable. For example, I love instrumental jazz music as background music. It really relaxes me while doing mundane things around the house, like doing the chores or even while having a bath or reading. It probably even lowers my blood pressure, so potentially is a health benefit to me also. I don't own a jazz record, could not name you a jazz song or artist, could not hum you a jazz melody if you asked because I would probably fall asleep while listening to it! For me, it serves a purpose, it calms and soothes me to some extent.

The Jazz purists out there might not understand my point of view of their style of music, because to them it is the best music out there and memorable, where for me it serves a purpose, even though I think it is a fascinating musical form played by talented musicians.

But in the end music is subjective, each to their own, and not worth getting upset over. Goodluck.


----------



## oks2024 (Jul 8, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Ok...you don't have to be like that. I was just giving my opinion that I think music should be memorable and show a little talent in the composition. I guess I just can't understand how 4 notes + 4 chords + a few crescendos and some synth...rinse and repeat classifies as 'talented' composing....I just don't get it.



Yes, that was exactly my point, there is something to learn, why it's popular, how it's made, etc. You might not be interested in learning that particular thing, and that's ok, but there might be something more than the number of notes or chords, or even the composition.

Also I don't think "talent" means anything, it's as subjective as "good music".

For trailers, it may be a good thing that you don't remember any of the music, because the trailer is all about the movie. It's there to make the movie look/sound cool, the audience should focus on the pictures, and when it's over the goal is that they want to see that movie, not buy the tune or even learn more about the composer.
And I think it require some kind of talent (even in the composition part) to do that. Not the same skills as composing a 10 minutes piece with memorable themes and tons of modulations, sure, but it still need some kind of "talent". Maybe the composer was lucky, he found 4 random chords and 4 notes, it sounded good, and it's on a trailer. But maybe he knew exactly what he was doing, and there is a justification for each note.
You might not find that talent valuable, but yeah, it's not an absolute fact.



Robert_G said:


> Ok...you don't have to be like that.



Sorry if my answer sounded harsh, that was not the goal. English is not my native language, so I guess I could have found a better way to say that.

It's just that your statements made me think of what I used to think about other types of music, and learning more about them was eye opening to me. I just wanted to share that with you just in case it can be useful.


----------



## YaniDee (Jul 8, 2019)

Novelty in all it's forms wears off...the true test of art is whether it still says something 50, 100 or more years later.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 8, 2019)

oks2024 said:


> I used to think that pop or electro/techno/house/whatever was just stupid and ultra simple music created by talentless people. But when I started to dive into music production I found several tutorial made by those people, and well, I learned a lot. They know exactly what they are doing, they know their audience, they know what aspects they need to master to make a great electro track. It's just that these aspects do not speak to me. I still don't like this kind of music, but I have a lot more respect for those making it.



This is one line of thinking that's interesting to me. _"I thought this and that was terrible, but then I realized it's not that easy to do and now I respect it more."
_
I don't quite understand the perspective. I absolutely do know that creating a trailer trash or EDM track that sounds _right_, is effective and reaches the audience isn't easy at all, needs a very specific expertise and it's something I could never do convincingly.

But how's that relevant? Trailer music and EDM is still terrible, unlistenable music.


----------



## Dave Connor (Jul 8, 2019)

Musicians have very clear tastes in music and even those of great accomplishment put the knock on widely recognized geniuses. Mahler called Brahms “a mannequin with a narrow heart.” Debussy once stood up to walk out of a Beethoven symphony performance telling his accompanying friend, “He’s starting to develop.” Mendelssohn thought Berlioz was a “No-talent.” Andre Previn would say to his dear friend John Williams, “When are you going to stop writing all that silly film music?” Encouraging him to move completely into the classical world as he had. We all have our opinions, nothing to be done about it.

What I find interesting is the, _Music is objectively good or bad _argument. I think that is largely true. If not, we wouldn’t respond to gags where the joke is: how bad the music is. Citizen Kane embraces this theme with Kane’s love interest warbling out of tune in an opera she’s over her head in tackling. A stagehand holds his nose in response. Everyone in the audience gets the joke.

Still, people of proven, exquisite taste, having created music of that quality can completely differ on this or that masterpiece. Also a person can generally like a persons work and object violently to a particular effort or experiment. The world keeps turning.


----------



## mikeh-375 (Jul 9, 2019)

@Robert_G ...she might yet come round to your way of thinking. Remember that women don't have dirty minds to the extent some gents might have because they change theirs so often.
......(sorry ladies.. )


----------



## mikeh-375 (Jul 9, 2019)

Dave Connor said:


> Andre Previn would say to his dear friend John Williams, “When are you going to stop writing all that silly film music?” Encouraging him to move completely into the classical world as he had.



I hadn't heard that Dave. Ironic from the man who won all of those Oscars. Funny thing is, when listening to JW's concert works I can see Previn's point, the man has something profound to say, something that needs no picture...truly a modern day genius.
Previn once heard a wonderful and fiendish Paganini solo violin piece being rattled off superbly behind closed doors at a conservatoire. Then a pretty young blonde student came out and AP asked if that was her playing. She said "yes maestro" and as she carried on down some stairs, she turned to him, flicked her hair back and said ever so sweetly, "yeah that Paganini is a real motherfucker"


----------



## Dave Connor (Jul 9, 2019)

Mike, somewhere online are quotes of some of the most famous composers of history taking blistering shots at other greats. It still goes on today in Pop or Hip Hop or Country or whatever, at all levels of talent. Various motivations are involved no doubt. I don’t think it’s a crime to state your preferences. For the most part I avoid it online because it’s in the negative column. Growing up I appreciated when some musician I admired voiced their distaste for something because it made me listen deeper to understand. I often came around to their view when maturing so I do try and be helpful to younger musicians for that same reason.


----------



## Eckoes (Jul 9, 2019)

I bet you could find one or two things about it that you like. 

She was trying to form a musical bond with you. It was a bid. Tell her a few things that you liked about it first, and then you can politely explain why overall it doesn’t do much for you. That way she feels heard and appreciated, and will likely be more open to your criticisms.


----------



## mikeh-375 (Jul 9, 2019)

Dave Connor said:


> Mike, somewhere online are quotes of some of the most famous composers of history taking blistering shots at other greats. It still goes on today in Pop or Hip Hop or Country or whatever, at all levels of talent. Various motivations are involved no doubt. I don’t think it’s a crime to state your preferences. For the most part I avoid it online because it’s in the negative column. Growing up I appreciated when some musician I admired voiced their distaste for something because it made me listen deeper to understand. I often came around to their view when maturing so I do try and be helpful to younger musicians for that same reason.



Like you, I have found, encouragement at all levels too, we really can be a nice bunch we musicians. My first ever recording session with an orchestra was mentored by a great friend of mine who sadly passed away this year after 25 years of working together. He too did a vast amount of work with younger people, helping many of them break in to the industry.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had long chats in a boozer with younger composers asking me questions I tried to answer responsibly. All part of the great tradition and the great chain of musical being.
I suspect that you, like me, don't feel obligated to help - it's just something about music that makes you want to share and give - pass it on, keep it alive.

Quote for the day from Mahler.....

....._."Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire."...._


----------



## mikeh-375 (Jul 9, 2019)

douggibson said:


> It's here. https://www.cmuse.org/harshest-composer-on-composer-insults-in-classical-music/
> 
> .......Anyhow, even if totally fake, I am of the opinion that next to Satie's influence Debussy is 100 % the jilted lover of Parsifal. That "Sunset mistaken for a Sunrise" comes from a broken heart in my opinion.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link Doug, I'll have fun with that.
I do not know Pelleas well enough so your words are good enough. Ironically, I doubt Wagner could have written La Mer. Wagner's rhetoric was still bound by high Romanticism even if his harmony was making incredulous tonal walls bulge. The 'stream of consciousness' rhetoric that is La Mer (and the Prelude L'apres) was markedly different. Debussy didn't need Wagner in the end imv.


----------



## MartinH. (Jul 9, 2019)

oks2024 said:


> I used to think that pop or electro/techno/house/whatever was just stupid and ultra simple music created by talentless people. But when I started to dive into music production I found several tutorial made by those people, and well, I learned a lot. They know exactly what they are doing, they know their audience, they know what aspects they need to master to make a great electro track.



Serious question: how many people do we have here who make neurofunk? I read somewhere it's one of the hardest genres to make, and so far I have to agree. I crashed and burned every time I tried to make something along those lines.



Eckoes said:


> I bet you could find one or two things about it that you like.
> 
> She was trying to form a musical bond with you. It was a bid. Tell her a few things that you liked about it first, and then you can politely explain why overall it doesn’t do much for you. That way she feels heard and appreciated, and will likely be more open to your criticisms.



I read of a study once where they monitored couples for a weekend and checked back on them 10 years later to see if they were still together. The strongest predictor of them staying together was the percentage of such "bids for attention" that was answered. The higher the better. Iirc the frequency of arguments had no impact, though that test setup is ill suited to track that frequency anyway.


Edit: @Robert_G I listened to your two tracks on soundcloud while writing this. Beautiful! And I'm not surprised you're putting much weight into the melodies in your quality judgement. If you haven't already, check out redbanned.com , you'll find a little more support for the "if you can't sing it, it's bad" school of thought (which definitely has and needs its place, I just wouldn't want it to be the _only_ one).

Also please ask your wife what the artist and album in question was, I'm sure many of us are curious to take a listen now :D. Maybe tell her you want to give it a second chance or something. I wouldn't advise telling here "it's for the forum where I ranted about your terrible taste in music".


----------



## Consona (Jul 9, 2019)

douggibson said:


>



Where's the rest of it???!!!


----------



## Eckoes (Jul 9, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> I read of a study once where they monitored couples for a weekend and checked back on them 10 years later to see if they were still together. The strongest predictor of them staying together was the percentage of such "bids for attention" that was answered. The higher the better. Iirc the frequency of arguments had no impact, though that test setup is ill suited to track that frequency anyway



I read that same study (an article summarizing it to be honest) and it resonated quite deeply with me. That’s why I used the word, “bid”

So now I find myself frequently trying to recognize when my GF is placing a bid. That’s the good part. 

The bad part is I get annoyed more easily when I see she isn’t doing the same thing!


----------



## Denkii (Jul 9, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> ....I gave her my opinion [...]​



That's the problem.


----------



## Desire Inspires (Jul 9, 2019)

Apologize.


----------



## jmauz (Jul 9, 2019)

I wasn't aware that this site is now offering marriage counseling. 

Can I get my oil changed here too?


----------



## InLight-Tone (Jul 9, 2019)

Why are men always being held HOSTAGE by their "loving" wives?!?


----------



## VinRice (Jul 9, 2019)

InLight-Tone said:


> Why are men always being held HOSTAGE by their "loving" wives?!?



Oh dear... You better explain that one otherwise you come across as an un-reconstructed neanderthal InCel douchebag... which I'm sure wasn't your intention.


----------



## chillbot (Jul 9, 2019)

jmauz said:


> Can I get my oil changed here too?


Real men change their own oil.

(I don't.)


----------



## Robert_G (Jul 9, 2019)

oks2024 said:


> Sorry if my answer sounded harsh, that was not the goal. English is not my native language, so I guess I could have found a better way to say that.
> 
> It's just that your statements made me think of what I used to think about other types of music, and learning more about them was eye opening to me. I just wanted to share that with you just in case it can be useful.



No worries....it is the internet after all.​


Eckoes said:


> I bet you could find one or two things about it that you like.
> 
> She was trying to form a musical bond with you. It was a bid. Tell her a few things that you liked about it first, and then you can politely explain why overall it doesn’t do much for you. That way she feels heard and appreciated, and will likely be more open to your criticisms.



Pretty sure you nailed it....I just missed what was taking place when she was putting in the bid.....this is where the women say "Typical man...isn't paying attention."


----------



## Robert_G (Jul 9, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> I read of a study once where they monitored couples for a weekend and checked back on them 10 years later to see if they were still together. The strongest predictor of them staying together was the percentage of such "bids for attention" that was answered. The higher the better. Iirc the frequency of arguments had no impact, though that test setup is ill suited to track that frequency anyway.



Makes total sense. I usually listen to what she has to say when she wants to talk about something, but the piece was so mundane and she insisted on my opinion....so I kind of bluntly just gave it to her. As we can see, it didn't go so well.



MartinH. said:


> Edit: @Robert_G I listened to your two tracks on soundcloud while writing this. Beautiful! And I'm not surprised you're putting much weight into the melodies in your quality judgement. If you haven't already, check out redbanned.com , you'll find a little more support for the "if you can't sing it, it's bad" school of thought (which definitely has and needs its place, I just wouldn't want it to be the _only_ one).



Thanks for the kind words about my tracks. I'm new to mixing and composing, but I'm starting to figure it out...and being lyrical is important to me.



MartinH. said:


> Also please ask your wife what the artist and album in question was, I'm sure many of us are curious to take a listen now :D. Maybe tell her you want to give it a second chance or something. I wouldn't advise telling here "it's for the forum where I ranted about your terrible taste in music".



Yeah....tried that...and I've been told not to bring it up because I don't care. That discussion is over unless I want on the couch for the rest of the week.


----------



## MartinH. (Jul 9, 2019)

Eckoes said:


> I read that same study (an article summarizing it to be honest) and it resonated quite deeply with me. That’s why I used the word, “bid”
> 
> So now I find myself frequently trying to recognize when my GF is placing a bid. That’s the good part.
> 
> The bad part is I get annoyed more easily when I see she isn’t doing the same thing!



Ha! Thought you might have read about that too, because I've never seen the term used elsewhere in that context. I told my girlfriend about the article and we were already doing pretty well in this area, but she still sometimes falls asleep when I tell her stuff that's not very engaging for her (anything technical or mathematical). This has happend multiple times, including one time where it was prefaced by "If I tell you, you're gonna fall asleep anyway." - "No I won't, I promise!"


But I can't be mad about that, I just wish I could sleep so easily as well. 



Robert_G said:


> Yeah....tried that...and I've been told not to bring it up because I don't care. That discussion is over unless I want on the couch for the rest of the week.


Sorry to hear that! Probably better to give it a rest then.


----------



## Denkii (Jul 9, 2019)

chillbot said:


> Real men change their own oil.
> 
> (I don't.)


Real men drink oil and walk the cargo.


----------



## InLight-Tone (Jul 9, 2019)

VinRice said:


> Oh dear... You better explain that one otherwise you come across as an un-reconstructed neanderthal InCel douchebag... which I'm sure wasn't your intention.


Well to clarify I don't agree with "happy wife, happy LIFE", it's an equal partnership period...


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 10, 2019)

InLight-Tone said:


> Why are men always being held HOSTAGE by their "loving" wives?!?



Everyone gets the partner they deserve.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Jul 10, 2019)

For the sake of argument, good music is effective music, and effective music is effective art, and effective art is effectively eliciting the intended emotion for the person experiencing it. 

If your wife is emotionally moved by simple music - that's fine. One of the more bazaar times in my life I spent 2 and a half months listening to white noise - and it's oddly relaxing. I don't expect everyone to appreciate trout mask replica, and that's okay too. 

Williams music is actually very much the same exact thing on a smaller level, considering he crafts melodies exactly the same way. idea, idea +, idea +++, idea plus something new and interesting but familiar.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Jul 10, 2019)

here is our first piece of motivic information

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/hp1-mp3.21090/][/AUDIOPLUS]

minor tonic, stepwise.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/hp2-mp3.21091/][/AUDIOPLUS]

followed by an arpeggiation of the V7 chord.(omitting the 3rd)

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/hp4-mp3.21092/][/AUDIOPLUS]

another of the first bit, minor tonic stepwise motif - followed by ANOTHER arpeggiation of the V chord(this time with the flattened 2nd akin to the neopolitan)

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/hp5-mp3.21093/][/AUDIOPLUS]

Now we have yet ANOTHER repeat of the very first motif - followed by a descending stepwise motion chromatically
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/hp6-mp3.21094/][/AUDIOPLUS]
chromatic stepwise motion ended by another quasi dominant arpeggio(I'm not sure on the ending, I never watched the harry potter films - so this is going by my fuzzy recollection from hearing mockups)

This is literally why his melodies work - he holds your hand by giving you every piece of new information along with a healthy dose of something he's already got you established and comfortable with.

I mean, Star Wars main title is a 5th leap, step wise motion down to the 2nd - leaping up to the octave of the tonic - then stepwise from 5-2 then back up to the octave, then back to the 5-2 but changes the order so it cadences on the 2nd degree.

its basically a major scale for crying out loud, and the imperial march is literally an Eb major arpeggio melodically, up to the D from G(a perfect 5th from the original note on the 2nd part of the phrase, what a shocker! notice a pattern with all 3 examples? I-V-I-V-I-V? he's probably the first composer to use I-V-I) then an Eb minor arpeggio down back to an Eb major arpeggio.

All these complicated... wait, they aren't really complicated - they're just carefully planned patterns that are extremely comfortable to the ear and familiar.

I'm not trying to be condescending, but I think if you're going to music snob a little, I'd help you see that you're literally attracted to someone who's simply better at using a pattern, adding something new, pattern again, new again, ect. Maybe you misunderstand how melody works, or why this type of patterning works - but it's absolutely key, and invaluable to creating relatable(useful) music. 

I'm not saying I find generic trailer type music enjoyable, but it's effective for all the same reasons - and literally anyone here can continue to learn by what others seem to gravitate to. We could sit back and grouch about it, but at the end of the day - someone is doing something right to turn heads, and if you have to break the music down into smaller bites, you can still be incredible. 

John Williams is just exceptionally good at getting you to "eat your veggies" to the point that you get to ear more deserts(interesting twists and payoffs) because he cooks the veggies better.


----------



## Robert_G (Aug 18, 2019)

Anyways....the wife challenged me to make something similar, so I gave it a whirl.





__





"Finding our way home"....time to get brave with brass


So I composed this one after my wife and I had a disagreement on why I didn't like some trailer type music she likes. Anyways....to make a long story short, she asked me if I could do some similar music and make it sound good. I normally don't like the 4 note 4 chord rinse and repeat, so I...




vi-control.net


----------



## Diablo IV (Aug 18, 2019)

Exactle how I feel about Jazz, hahah. And Asmr (which I love , it's not music but you get the point)


----------



## FinGael (Aug 19, 2019)

YaniDee said:


> Novelty in all it's forms wears off...the true test of art is whether it still says something 50, 100 or more years later.



That's right. Some of the songs I used to like 100 or 200 years ago have truly grown on me, while others feel and sound sooo outdated.


----------



## Tim_Wells (Aug 19, 2019)

Shouldn't this thread go in the Marriage Counseling forum?


----------



## YaniDee (Aug 20, 2019)

FinGael said:


> That's right. Some of the songs I used to like 100 or 200 years ago have truly grown on me, while others feel and sound sooo outdated.


I guess you've never heard of Mozart, Bach or Beethoven..
Beatles songs are now 50+ years old and are still around.. I doubt people will be whistling rap songs in 50 years..


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 20, 2019)

Most modern Jazz and New Age all sounds alike to me, but I like both...and yes, I cannot remember most of those tunes if my life depended on it. I just like the music for some reason, that's all that matters. 

If these are the arguments that surround your marriage, you are in good shape!


----------



## Robert_G (Aug 20, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> If these are the arguments that surround your marriage, you are in good shape!



Yup...so true...pretty small stuff to disagree on after 2+ decades of being married. I'll take it any day over 'other' type disagreements.


----------



## joelmichael (Aug 30, 2019)

This definitely makes the list of my favorite threads.


----------



## Jojilicus (Sep 3, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> The best music out there is stuff that you can sing in your sleep....no?


No.


----------

