# 88 Note Weighted Controllers: StudioLogic SL88 Studio vs M-Audio Hammer 88, I tried both this is what I found...



## Andy Davidson (Jul 22, 2020)

Hi All,

I've recently been looking for a 88 note weighted keyboard controller, mainly for playing piano parts and when I just want to sit down and play, without distractions from a multitude of LEDs, displays and features. I've a Novation SL61 Mk3 semi-weighted controller for all that, it's brimming with LEDs, OLEDs, and all the pads, faders and knobs you could ever want. But sometimes I love to just get away from all that and just play, hence the search for an 88 note controller with no need for faders, knobs or pads.

Years ago, I had an Yamaha KX88 and I did everything on that, I loved it, be it synth lead lines, pianos, drums, whatever, I used it for the lot.

So I've been looking here for a while, for info on controllers and what's out there right now, long time reader, but this is my first post.






Reading here, the StudioLogic SL88 Studio got a lot of mentions, I read up on it here and other reviews too and in the end I ordered one. I got it on an extended guarantee, with an 180 day return for refund so it was low risk.

Work was busy at the time it arrived, so I only got to play on it initially for an hour or so, when it was first delivered around 6 weeks ago, since then it's been underwraps awaiting more time and to be properly setup. However on that first play, I loved it. Build like a tank, played nicely too, if a bit stiff, but good.

I got it back out again, about 2 weeks ago and started to work with it properly. I noticed that the action was pretty stiff, more so than the KX88 I remember and there was a sponginess to the feel. So again, I turned to the internet (not always the best idea!) to see if I was the minority, in finding the action a little stiff/mushy. I also looked out for some alternatives too.

I noticed the M-Audio Hammer 88 got a few mentions here too, not mentioned much, but always positive when it was mentioned.

So I took the gamble on it and got it too on a 180 day keep or return.

So last Saturday the Hammer 88 arrived and I had the pair together and a decision had to be made! SL88 or Hammer 88?

I made my choice quite easily, initially straight out of the box, but I also learnt that one persons perfect choice might be someone else's last choice!

Here's what I found:

*StudioLogic SL88 Studio *- build like a tank, very well made, mainly metal case work, feels very solid. It looks like a minimalistic synth, with the flat sloping panel and large screen and joysticks. Feels a lot more expensive than its price. LED display is very clear, bright and sharp and the navigation controller is neat, you can use it easily to go through the menus etc. The mini joysticks, some love them, some hate them, I liked them. Given a choice I'd have PB/Mod wheels but these were good and perfectly workable. The keybed, This is where it gets interesting! Initially, I loved it. With time and more playing, it began to feel a little too stiff, a little spongy, rather than a crisp action it felt a little mushy. It was good, don't get me wrong, but for me I'd prefer something a little lighter, faster and less spongy, something more crisp. But more on that below.

*M-Audio Hammer 88* – again this is build like a tank too! It’s even more well-made than the SL88. The main difference here though, whereas the SL88 looks like a minimalistic synth, the Hammer 88 has been designed from the offset to look as close to a piano as possible. The minimum of controls; a single master volume fader that can be MIDI assigned to anything, a PB wheel, a mod wheel and two push-buttons, that again can be mapped to any CC value. In my eyes, the Hammer 88 looks beautiful! It’s the most piano like looking controller I’ve seen; the curved case looks like the closed lid on an upright piano, it looks like part of a piano. When I see it, I can help but give it a pat or run my hand over the panel, it’s a thing of beauty. Both PB and Mod wheels light up red when it’s on and there’s a red felt strip that runs the entire length of the back of the keyboard. Again it looks superb and gives it a quality piano look. As I unboxed it, a friend did ask how much did it cost again, as they thought it looked a lot more expensive than just over £400. Now to the important bit, the keybed. It felt great, I was sold almost instantly! A much lighter action and feel compared to the SL88. Very crisp, positive action too, no mushiness or sponginess at all. Crisp, sharp, light. Easier for me to play than the SL88, especially for fast pieces. When I tried it, it was exactly what I wanted, exactly what I wasn’t getting from the SL88. Those first few runs of the keybed sealed the deal for me, the Hammer 88 was the keeper.

But here’s the deal. Even as I was boxing up the SL88, I couldn’t help but try the keys again. I kept trying both then Hammer 88 and SL88 and comparing against each other. Both are good, it’s just the Hammer 88 is more suited to my playing. It’s a close call! I was thinking, is the Hammer too light, is it too hard to get the quite notes? Is the SL too heavy, to hard to hit the louder notes? Even both side by side, it wasn’t easy. You've really got to spend some time playing them. I was decided on the Hammer 88 but wanted to give the SL88 another chance.

So after further play, in the end, my initial reaction won, the SL88 was going back, the Hammer 88 staying.

But the moral of all this is, a keybed ideal for me, might be your worst nightmare, you’ve really got to try them out and decide for yourself. I’ve seen loads people here wondering about keybed feel and I was one of them, but in the end try to try them out for yourself. For some the Hammer 88 might be too light and the SL88 perfect. You can only read so many reviews, in the end it comes down to trying them for yourself.

If you can’t visit a store, mail order them with an easy 30 (or in my case 180) return policy. Don’t worry about having to send it back, just make sure you can, before purchasing!

I was kind of in decision hell, before I ordered the Hammer 88, should I shouldn’t I. I could have read another thousand review on the internet, but until I had it here, I’d never know for sure.

Keybed choice is entirely personal, so if you’re in doubt, check the return policy then go for it, it’s the only way. Or spend an afternoon or even a day at a store and try them out.

Sorry for going on a bit, just thought I’d give a bit of feedback here, as you’ve all helped me get to the controller I’ve been longing for and this might help someone out too.

Time I shut up and made some music instead.

PS. Jasper's pleased the SL88's gone back and the Hammer 88 is now properly setup, so he can have his bed back now!

Cheers,

Andy.


----------



## Zanshin (Jul 22, 2020)

Good review! I have a SL73, and yeah it's a bit more heavy action than I'd like. I'm pretty used to it now though haha (and have a synth action Moog Subsequent 37 above it if I really am wanting LIGHT).


----------



## Andy Davidson (Jul 22, 2020)

Zanshin said:


> Good review! I have a SL73, and yeah it's a bit more heavy action than I'd like. I'm pretty used to it now though haha (and have a synth action Moog Subsequent 37 above it if I really am wanting LIGHT).


Thank you! I kind of get attached to kit (weird I know!) and although I liked the SL, the feel didn't grow on me. Great overall controller though, just a little heavy for me. The Hammer 88 almost felt semi-weighted in comparison. It's that point though, when you can agonise over something for days, weeks, in the end you'd just got to do the best with what you've got!

Moog Subsequent 37 sounds well cool! I've not moved into hardware synths yet, had lots in the 1980s, then fell out of music. Only got back into it in the last 2 years or so and it's all been in the box! A laptop, lots of software and a cheap Casio home keyboard that just happened to have MIDI has got me by until this year. Decided to get a decent controller instead so I'm sorted now! It's the first hardware I've bought since my KX88 back in 1986!!! 

Have fun with that Subsequent 37, endless hours of fun with that!


----------



## ChoPraTs (Jan 4, 2021)

Thank you very much for the detailed analysis Andy.

I am looking for a master keyboard to install under my desk. I am a classical pianist, I have my career in the conservatory and I feel very comfortable with weighted keyboards, but I feel strange with soft keys.

I already have a very good piano keyboard, unbeatable for me, the Kawai MP11. It’s a pleasure to play it and I love spending hours with it. Until now I have used it both as a digital piano and as a master keyboard to work and compose with my DAW, but for this last purpose I find it uncomfortable. Due to its weight, I have to have it on one side of the desk and I end all my sessions with a stiff neck. I need to keep it a little apart because I also teach other students in it.

In addition to this, although its keys are excellent to interpret any piano piece, I do not know if they are the best option when it comes to making orchestral compositions and play Woodwinds, Strings, Brass, Percussion and other instruments. Many times I feel that, on these instruments, I have to press very hard to achieve a powerful attack or reach the 127 velocity values. Many times I end up tweaking what I have played in the DAW to increase the velocity of what I played and achieve more powerful attacks, mainly on staccatto notes or timpani hits. However, I don't need to tweak anything when playing with piano libraries, the setting is just PERFECT.

So I'm looking for a simpler and cheaper controller, just to have it under the desk and in front of my display to compose looking at the screen. I am not worried that it is not excellent for playing piano, because for that purpose I already have the Kawai. But I would like it to be versatile, that it serves a little for everything. I think that soft keys are not recommended for me, as a pianist, I prefer the weighted keyboards. And I prefer to have all 88 keys, since I have enough space and I always miss a few if I have less.

So I am considering several options. Perhaps the ideal would be the Native Instruments Kontrol S88 to providing something different in my home studio, with led lights for the keswitches, integration with Kontakt, etc. But right now I'm on a budget and I'm just looking for something to have soon under my desk. I already have a Korg nanoKontrol Studio with enough faders and knobs to drive the Daw, so I don't think I need something like the Arturia Keyblab MKII either.

So, among the remaining contenders, I am in between the Studiologic SL88 Studio and the M-Audio Hammer 88. I think the feel of the Studiologic SL88 Grand would be much better, but also more expensive and as I say I already have the Kawai Mp11 for that, so I am looking for something different and that is above all versatile, that is not bad for the piano but is above all very useful and suitable for orchestral instruments.

I will try to get both or try them before take a decission. But for those who already have it, do you think the M-Audio Hammer 88 is a good controller for my purpose? Is it good for playing any kind of orchestral instrument? Would the Studiologic SL88 Studio be better? I like the design of the M-Audio and I also prefer the modulation and pitch wheel on the left over the joysticks of the SL88 Studio, but what I like the most is that I have read some comments of users specifying how easy was for them to achieve velocity ranges from 1 to 127 with the M-Audio. And I think this is the most interesting thing for me and what I’m looking for. Is it right?

Thanks a lot!


----------



## Andy Davidson (Jan 5, 2021)

ChoPraTs said:


> Thank you very much for the detailed analysis Andy.
> 
> I am looking for a master keyboard to install under my desk. I am a classical pianist, I have my career in the conservatory and I feel very comfortable with weighted keyboards, but I feel strange with soft keys.
> 
> ...


Hi @ChoPraTs many thanks for you post, I think the Hammer-88 would be ideal for what you need.

I got mine back in July 2020 and I simply adore the thing! I love it, I can't believe how good it is, how joyous it is to play and the fact it's at the cheaper end of the price range too, it's simply ideal.

I love the fact there is no distraction, there's no screens, there not many buttons, it's all about the keys, the feel and the simplicity of and getting lost in just playing on it. I'll load up a piano sound and suddenly an hour has passed and I've just had fun and got lost in the music.

The keybed action for me is perfect, it's not too heavy, not too soft, there's no sluggishness, it's a crisp hammer action.

I did have a SL88 before this, but I felt it was too heavy a feel, it felt sluggish and I never thought I'd get to the 127 velocity you mentioned. While I was comparing them, I ran some tests and i got the best range of velocity easily with the Hammer-88. I could without too much effort, get the low velocity and then straight into the 127s without fearing I was playing so heavy I would break it. With the SL-88 it was tricky for me to get into the high 120s range.

I also felt the SL-88 was sluggish, to the point it felt like a latency in playing, rather than the crisp action of the Hammer-88.

On a practical note, I love the clear panel of the Hammer-88, I've a slight shelf at the back of mine, which means I can play my laptop/keyboard right next to the keys, so there's no leaning over to get to the laptop, it's just there. You could also easily sit a separate QWERTY keyboard, just above the keys too if you preferred. 

So would I recommend the Hammer-88? Absolutely, I love the thing, it's been my best music related purchase in years. In comparison, the Novation SL-61 Mk3 I bought around the same time, is brimming with controllers, faders, pads, switches, OLED displays and has a semi-weighted keyboard. But I'm now so used to the Hammer-88 I've not played on the SL-61 in months. It's under a dust cover in the corner, I can't remember the last time I used it!

So I'm using the Hammer-88 for everything; pianos, leads, synths, pads, strings, orchestral stuff, the lot! I did think I'd mix the too, the Hammer-88 for the pianos, the SL-61 Mk3 for everything else, but the Hammer-88 is such a crisp , I'm using for everything and the SL-61 isn't getting a look in!

So I'd highly recommend you give it a try, buy it on a good sale/return option, if you don't like it, you can always return it etc.

Also, I've realised one persons ideal keybed is someone else's nightmare! I'd be very interested to hear how you get on and how you find the Hammer-88.

Good luck and if you can, let me know how you get on.

Cheers,

Andy.


----------



## LWM (Nov 11, 2021)

Thanks all for the thoughts, and thanks Andy for the detail.
Just wondering if you’d contemplated the SL88 Grand rather the ‘studio’? 
I too have a KX88 which is still alive but like all of us, sadly aging. If I replace it, I too beed to find something as good and as versatile, with a similar action (but hopefully a tad lighter!). 
The Hammer 88 I would have thought has a much lighter action?
There really is little available these day comparable to the KX88 - they really don’t make ‘em like that any more!

Best

F S


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 11, 2021)

I am planning to get a Kawai keyboard after I finish my condo renovation, to use primarily for playing piano...sketching, etc..to have real piano feel, including escapement, etc. But on my desk in front for he computer I use a much less expensive and much lighter feeling 88 key controller, I happen to like the Nektar Impact LX88+. For one thing is is very very quiet in terms of physical sounds that it makes. It is not at all even remotely close to a piano weighted action, but for that place in my studio that is preferable. Its very inexpensive also. 

But I should note that I have an older Kawai weighted controller to my right, and to my left is another weighted controller the Yamaha S90...and above that I have Roland JP80 which is semi weighted 88 keys also...all of which can be used to perform something if I want. What is in front of my at my desk is meant to be my normal keyboard while working with sample libraries, switching articulations, etc...need 88 keys...and for this kind of general purpose a semi-weighted controller is preferable to me.


----------



## cedricm (Nov 11, 2021)

Andy Davidson said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I've recently been looking for a 88 note weighted keyboard controller, mainly for playing piano parts and when I just want to sit down and play, without distractions from a multitude of LEDs, displays and features. I've a Novation SL61 Mk3 semi-weighted controller for all that, it's brimming with LEDs, OLEDs, and all the pads, faders and knobs you could ever want. But sometimes I love to just get away from all that and just play, hence the search for an 88 note controller with no need for faders, knobs or pads.
> 
> ...


Did you use the free SL Editor to adjust the SL-88 to your taste?


----------



## jaketanner (Nov 11, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> to have real piano feel, including escapement, etc


I plan on getting the Yamaha P515...yes has escapement, BUT...from the many reviews about this "gimmick"...it does absolutely nothing. Can't help it on an acoustic..it's part of the mechanism, but when it's faked, it can be a hindrance if not implemented correctly...slows down the action. In fact...from what I've read, Nord removed the escapement action from their top of the line piano. I believe they used the same action as in the MP11SE, but without the escapement. is that the Kawai you are looking at? That is about as close as it gets...perhaps one that might be even closer is the VPC-1 but with the Ravenscroft modification to the weights. 

Side note: I am concerned about noise as well...especially late at night. I know some 88 weighted key actions are relatively quiet, but I was thinking about switching to a semi-weighted 88 key for that very reason. I've had the LX88+...wasn't all that into it. Have you researched any other semi-weighted keys? Maybe the Studiologic Numa series? Not sure what else is out there that is semi-weighted and 88 keys...the Arturia Essential I heard ins't great. Thanks


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 11, 2021)

Havent decided which Kawai I’m going to get yet. I have a an older mp9000 right now which has good weight and response but no escapement


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Nov 11, 2021)

I own a MP11SE and use it for both piano and as a main controller. Before buying it, I played it and several of it's competitors around that time (2019) extensively: the VPC-1, Yamaha P-515, Roland RD2000 and Nord Grand Piano.

Of all of these great options, what stuck to me personally was the feel of the MP11SE keybed and the sound of their Shigeru-Kawai concert grand sample. It just connected with me.

The VPC-1 came close, but like a lot of people, I found it too heavy to play comfortably. The action of the Yamaha P-515 was too spongy. It was a bit like pressing the key had a sort of delay at the end, like after touch on a synth. Felt weird. Can't remember specifics about the Roland and Nord. Didn't like the whole red theme of the Nord that much too.

As a main controller, the MP11SE is suitable for me, as it has mod and pitch wheels and a multitude of pedal options, which I use too (expression pedal + standard piano pedals). The 4 knobs alongside the display are fully CC programmable, so you can use them too to control some things. It's not made for controller duties perse, but the keybed is just a joy to play for me.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 11, 2021)

which one of the Kawai's has the pedal with the full half pedaling functionality? I seem to recall one of them is more limited then the other for some reason.


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Nov 11, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> which one of the Kawai's has the pedal with the full half pedaling functionality? I seem to recall one of them is more limited then the other for some reason.


The GFP-3 pedla unit on the MP11SE supports half-pedalling.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 11, 2021)

I just looked it up. the MP11SE has the optical sensor unit and a stiffer spring in the pedal that feels more like the real thing. The VPC-1 has an older pedal design.


----------



## jaketanner (Nov 12, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> I own a MP11SE and use it for both piano and as a main controller. Before buying it, I played it and several of it's competitors around that time (2019) extensively: the VPC-1, Yamaha P-515, Roland RD2000 and Nord Grand Piano.
> 
> Of all of these great options, what stuck to me personally was the feel of the MP11SE keybed and the sound of their Shigeru-Kawai concert grand sample. It just connected with me.
> 
> ...


I’m jealous. I wish I could get the MP11SE. Not sure I can justify the cost since I don’t use on board sounds, or any other bells and whistles it has. It would be purely for the key action. But I also don’t need the keys to feel “real”, to play piano since I’m not playing classical music (even though I studied classical piano for 12 years). Lol. Just want a well rounded controller that is also on the quiet side. Considered the Roland A88MKII for that reason.


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Nov 12, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I’m jealous. I wish I could get the MP11SE. Not sure I can justify the cost since I don’t use on board sounds, or any other bells and whistles it has. It would be purely for the key action. But I also don’t need the keys to feel “real”, to play piano since I’m not playing classical music (even though I studied classical piano for 12 years). Lol. Just want a well rounded controller that is also on the quiet side. Considered the Roland A88MKII for that reason.


That's a sensible approach. I went for the MP11SE because when I want to play piano, I don't want to turn on my computer. I work in IT and turning that computer on sometimes just takes all the fun out of it.


----------



## jaketanner (Nov 12, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> That's a sensible approach. I went for the MP11SE because when I want to play piano, I don't want to turn on my computer. I work in IT and turning that computer on sometimes just takes all the fun out of it.


Oh wow...ironically, I am studying for an entry level IT support through Google. 

You bring up a good point...I have been going back and forth between the Roland and the P515...I was leaning towards the 515 because I heard good things about the keys, and I do like having on board sounds to just get ideas. I was also toying with giving piano lessons...so that would be a plus. I wouldn't record with the on board sounds...but having them when inspiration strikes is also good. Decisions..LOL. However, even if I were to go the MP 11 route, I think it's too bulky to set up how I would want things. The other two can go right under the desk. How do you have yours set up?


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Nov 12, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Oh wow...ironically, I am studying for an entry level IT support through Google.



Good for you! 



jaketanner said:


> You bring up a good point...I have been going back and forth between the Roland and the P515...I was leaning towards the 515 because I heard good things about the keys, and I do like having on board sounds to just get ideas. I was also toying with giving piano lessons...so that would be a plus. I wouldn't record with the on board sounds...but having them when inspiration strikes is also good. Decisions..LOL.



The most important words of my post are probably: "for me". Everything about that post is subjective. I didn't like the 515 keybed, but that doesn't mean you won't either. The best advise I can give you is to try the keybeds out for yourself before comitting to a purchase. I know that's not easy for everyone and I'm lucky to have a great piano dealer at a reasonable distance which has all major brands and lets you play all day if you want.



jaketanner said:


> However, even if I were to go the MP 11 route, I think it's too bulky to set up how I would want things. The other two can go right under the desk. How do you have yours set up?



That's absolutely true, the thing is a beast. I wasn't to happy to drag it home on my own when I bought it :D 70 lbs is no joke!


----------



## jaketanner (Nov 12, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Good for you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Been looking for a dealer that has the Yamaha...I might need to go to Sam Ash which is about 70 miles from me...I'll call first..LOL. They usually have a lot of keys on display. 

One day when I have a bigger room, and paid work, I will treat myself to an MP11...something to look forward to..LOL


----------



## Duncan Krummel (Nov 12, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> The VPC-1 came close, but like a lot of people, I found it too heavy to play comfortably.


I always find this interesting, because - now finally owning a VPC1 - I still find the action too light compared to a well regulated grand piano. Of course, it’s a personal thing, and it’s the closest to real in a keyboard I’ve played, so I still enjoy it immensely. I should have liked to go with the Ravenscroft modified VPC1, but they’ve stopped manufacturing them indefinitely at the moment.


----------



## jaketanner (Nov 12, 2021)

Duncan Krummel said:


> I always find this interesting, because - now finally owning a VPC1 - I still find the action too light compared to a well regulated grand piano. Of course, it’s a personal thing, and it’s the closest to real in a keyboard I’ve played, so I still enjoy it immensely. I should have liked to go with the Ravenscroft modified VPC1, but they’ve stopped manufacturing them indefinitely at the moment.


Damn. Didn’t know they aren’t modifying them anymore.


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Nov 12, 2021)

Duncan Krummel said:


> I always find this interesting, because - now finally owning a VPC1 - I still find the action too light compared to a well regulated grand piano. Of course, it’s a personal thing, and it’s the closest to real in a keyboard I’ve played, so I still enjoy it immensely. I should have liked to go with the Ravenscroft modified VPC1, but they’ve stopped manufacturing them indefinitely at the moment.



That has probably something to do with the fact that I never had access to a grand piano, or even a baby grand for that matter, and always played uprights of various degree?


----------

