# AVID Artist Control Opinions



## Dryden.Chambers (Aug 15, 2014)

Was thinking of picking one of these up used (mkI) and looking for some feedback with use on Mac and Logic X please. TX


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## Jdiggity1 (Aug 15, 2014)

For mixing, they're good.
I sold my artist mix because i simply didnt mix that way very often.
I prefer a fader bank that can be programmed to midi cc, which i could not do with the avid boards.
As for the touch screen on the artist control, i use my ipad with Lemur, which is much cheaper and accomplishes the same. On a bigger screen too.

So, in the end the Avid boards aren't for me. But i know of others who absolutely love them, since they appreciate the tactile nature of them.


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## studioj (Aug 15, 2014)

Yeah if you go that route opt for the MIX version. The touch pad on the control is too small and the ergonomics are not great. Get an iPad with lemur or the Logic iPad app.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Aug 15, 2014)

I've read many reviews about them feeling very cheap and not very durable although I've never tried one. The touch screen does look really small as mentioned. I'd get it if it were cheap but I wouldn't buy a new one. 
Keep in mind that they can't be set up to transmit CC. I've heard of many people selling theirs solely because of that. I think most people nowadays are going with touchscreens although many apps lack touch sensitivity.


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## charlieclouser (Aug 15, 2014)

I have two of the fader boxes and the MC-Control main unit. I used them for about a month and unplugged them - but this was years ago, when they first came out.

Pro: Small size, no MIDI interface needed.

Con: Mute and Solo buttons are next to each other, not above each other, which requires looking down at the thing to avoid hitting the wrong one. These buttons are also grippy rubber, as opposed to smooth plastic - with the Mackie Control (smooth plastic buttons above each other) you can just swipe your finger across a whole row to mute/solo many channels at once. EuCon was also flaky - it frequently needed reluanching of the control app, which was a separate app running in the background. After I had configured the four faders on the MC-Control to control my stem sub masters, this assignment was not remembered when switching between cues made from identical templates, so I had to store and manually recall this setup each time a new cue was loaded. The OLED scribble strip had very small text and was hard to read at a glance, and the meters are very small. The MC-Control's touch screen also had very small text and in the long run didn't do anything that couldn't be done from a key command, and was therefore never really used, except for the "jump to marker" grid, which could prove useful, but I have "jump to marker X" assigned to function keys on the Mac keyboard anyway, so… The jog wheel and transport buttons were not useful to me, and editing plugins on the small knobs on the MC-Control was not the best. It is possible to "spill" plugin controls across all the pan pots on multiple Artist Mix units, and you can "flip" those down to the faders, so some users will appreciate this - for me it was much slower than just using the mouse - but I'm not one of those people who needs to mix "eyes closed" or avoid looking at the plugin GUI to "trust my ears". If you must have hands-on control on plugins the Avid units can do this as well as most other units.

All in all, I bought them as replacements for an aging Mackie Control setup, installed them, and removed them after a month or so, being unsatisfied with the ergonomics and flaky performance - but this was years ago so things may have improved in the EuCon department. 

I don't use a fader controller system at all anymore, finding it quicker to just use the mouse than to go flipping through endless banks on a hardware box - but my template is hundreds of channels wide, so it's easier to see it all laid out on Logic's Environment window on a 30-inch monitor than to bank back and forth looking for the correct fader. My Artist units are still sitting in their original boxes in the "to be sold" pile.

For Logic users, Mackie Control or compatible units (and even the cheap Behringer X-Touch series) are the best choice, as the protocol is baked-in to Logic, with no drivers, "control surface profiles", or any other files or apps needed. They always work flawlessly right from the get-go inside Logic. For ProTools, Cubase, etc. users the difference between Mackie and Avid units might not be so huge; indeed if your DAW requires that the Mackie units run in HUI mode as opposed to MCU (Mackie Control Universal) mode then you will be at a disadvantage, since MCU mode is greatly enhanced over HUI mode, which was the earlier protocol, more primitive, and used more MIDI bandwidth for fewer features. MCU mode resolved the MIDI bandwidth concerns and offered enhanced control. For Logic users, MCU mode and a Mackie C4 (the now-discontinued all-knobs expander unit) offered tons of hands-on control of stuff that no other control surface offered, like knob control of waveform zoom, screen zoom, quantize settings, etc., and 32 jump-to-marker buttons for instant locate to the first 32 markers in a song.

So - if you're on Logic, go Mackie or compatible. If not, perhaps consider Artist series but best to try it out if possible before committing fully. On paper, the Artist series looked perfect to me, but once installed and up and running the reality was somewhat disappointing.


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## Jeff Tymoschuk (Aug 16, 2014)

I've been using an MC Control for the last few years in DP, and up until about six months ago dug it quite a bit. Since the version 3 updates it's become extremely flaky, often not booting up correctly, randomly stopping working entirely, the Eucon software crashing, etc. There's been additional updates since then, but it doesn't seem to have been fixed, and from my poking around online it seems like I'm not the only one with this problem.

So the short answer is that when it works, I like it a lot. These days, not so much.


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## LaurensGoedhart (Aug 16, 2014)

I have 2 MC Mix units and they work pretty well. To be honest, the software (EuControl) is not very stable (at least a few crashes per week), but restarting that application fixes it most of the time. Works perfectly in Logic and Pro Tools. Love the feature that the surfaces adapt immediately to each app when switching between them while both are opened!


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 16, 2014)

I love my Mix - it's essential for me actually - but I use it in Cubase for midi, where it can be set to control midi ccs. It can't do this in any other daw. I also use it in Pro Tools 10 where it's been rock solid - the caveat there is that I'm still on EuControl 2.x . Actually prefer mixing on it to the huge consoles which are invariably too big, too unwieldy and often can't autobank and follow how I work in the DAW. Like others, I'm not a fan of the Control though - touch screen restrictive and, far worse, no display above the faders which is crippling.

EDIT - quick coda to Charlie's experiences - setting it to follow your DAW selection is essential, that's how it truly becomes an extension of your DAW not a dumb box. I find the LED displays fine, and only use the meters there for channel activity, not for anything precise. Fader flip is great - it's usually far easier to control. But but but - no midi control in Logic is a killer. It's one of the single biggest reasons I switched from Sonar to Cubase actually.


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## samphony (Aug 18, 2014)

The Euphonix branded one and the Avid one are no different it's just the color and branding. It's working flawlessly with logic and if you combine it with AGs Logic X toolkit pro you'll be able to control midi cc via track based automation (TBA).

I'm using the mc mix and can't recommend the mc control.

About EUCON protocol I'm a bit biased. Since Avid took over the driver becomes more and more flakey. I think the most stable driver is 2.7.0/2.7.1 all 3.0 and above have issues when running in Mac OS X 10.9

Keep in mind if you buy this thing used that the seller should contact Avid about registration transfer of the unit. Otherwise you can't register the unit under your name nor download the EUCON driver. A friend of mine bought 2 mc mix and 1 mc control used but I had to send him the EUCON driver because he couldn't re register the units under his name.

If I would be in the market for a controller I wouldn't buy it again it's not that it feels cheap it's more that I don't use it that often like expected.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Aug 19, 2014)

someone had mentioned the original ones made by Euphonix are made slightly better than the Avid ones. You guys agree ? And can the older ones work with the newest Avid drives, software, Logic X ?


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## jeffc (Aug 19, 2014)

I've had 2 MC Mix's for years (and have 2 replacement units from Avid). And it's love/hate. To reiterate what's been said, they look great on paper but have always been flaky. Never seem to have been totally solid, seems like software. I'm on Logic and Protools. But just as flaky on both. Old Mackie Control was much more flawless. But there's not that much out there as an alternative that I'm aware of. Seems there's a new Behringer X Touch that I want to try and see if they work better. I still use mine but there are days that I turn them off because they just stop working, or become flaky, or there's an audio lag, or you pan a fader and it sounds panned but the pan on the unit doesn't show it. If you have little patience, I'd be wary of buying. For the price they should work better. And as always, once Avid got involved, the drivers became worse and support became much worse. I don't understand how they have a 300mb driver that makes things worse than they were before.....


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 19, 2014)

If you can, use EuControl 2.7.1. I know PT11 is EuCon 3 only, I don't think anything else needs it though. Honestly and truly, it's been rock solid for me for years on 2.7.1 - couldn't work without it now.


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## samphony (Aug 19, 2014)

If you go EUCON 2.7.1 with Logic Pro x it will be rock solid. No problems here.
I have mine running since 2009 everyday without problems. Just don't use EUCON 3.0 until it's un flakey


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## synthetic (Aug 19, 2014)

Every few years I try to talk myself into one, then I read reviews again and don't. So cool on paper.

Have you looked at the SSL Nucleus? Looks like a good controller, only more expensive and big. Faders feel great, though.


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 20, 2014)

synthetic @ Wed Aug 20 said:


> Every few years I try to talk myself into one, then I read reviews again and don't. So cool on paper.



Urgh, it's a little frustrating to read posts like this. Your outcome with the Avid Artist will very much depend on how you want to use it. I feel I have to stress once more - I'm thrilled to bits with mine, it's rock solid, it feels great and it's the centerpiece of my entire studio. I honestly don't want or need it to do anything else. Well, obviously it would be great if it could make me time travel, but I'm talking about what I can reasonably expect of a small unit with 8 faders, and that small form factor was also another critical feature for me - I have the mixer to the left that can control anything, computer keyboard and mouse to the right with the 88 note keyboard sat just above both and fractionally behind. Things I didn't want include transport / shuttle controls - for me the mouse is always quicker, and they take up crucial real estate.

My design spec is thus - I want it to control midi CCs in music composing to give me touch fader automation on midi, and volume, pans, auxes etc generally. In order to do the former, you have to use Cubase, nothing else will do - in Cubase the Artist can control the 8 assignable Quick Controls by just pressing and holding the EQ button. My problem - I was a Sonar user. But because the Artist worked for me in every other way and I was getting frustrated with Sonar for other reasons, a few years ago I decided to make the jump to Cubase. It was a fairly painful transition tbh, but once made I'm much happier now with my DAW in general. Yesterday I was automating the feedback on a delay plug in, it was a cinch to set up in Cubase / Artist and gave me precise motorised control - to tweak all I needed was touch the fader where I needed to drop in.

The Artist can do a lot which, imo, is redundant, such as setting up clever combinations of tracks with different scene sets. For me it's a waste of time and energy, I always have it set to follow my selections in the DAW, be it Pro Tools or Cubase. So the Artist is pretty much always where I need it. Often I have to dub on the huge ICON desks and I hate them - I'm forever having to bank and walk across the room just to tweak an aux, its a terrible work flow. With the Artist, it's always where you need it and to flip between 8 faders in a row and 8 midi CCs per channel (or 8 auxes) is a matter of 2 or 3 keypresses on the Artist, which becomes second nature quickly. Best of all, I can always clearly see what mode I'm in or what I'm doing, the oLEDs above each channel see to that. The fader flip works great - much easier for me to control precisely on a long throw fader than a tiny knob.

I used to get an issue of error messages on startup, but that is easily and permanently solved by getting a free batch startup program that runs and staggers the three apps that need to be launched one after the other - it can fall over itself if your computer tries to do all three at once. And that aside, it's been my only technical issue - I think I can only remember it not responding once in the last couple of years, and turning it off and on again brought it back. I'd prefer it if Cubase handled midi data from two sources (modwheel and Artist) a little more simply, but that's a Cubase issue not an Artist one.

Now, I'm not doing anything clever here, so I know I'm not the only one who has it working really well. I'm Win7 64 bit, running Cubase 7.5.2 and PT 10.3.9, and EuControl 2.7.1.

So to reiterate - you might have problems it seems if you try to run any version of EuControl 3.x. AFAIK only Pro Tools 11 has 3.x as a requirement. And if you need midi control for any DAW other than Cubase, then you'll need to look elsewhere or if you're like me - switch DAWs. Right now for me its the only serious game in town - stuff like the SSL or old Mackie units are just massive and far more than I want or need. It'll be interesting to see how the Behringers perform, but they wouldn't be any good for me - the smaller unit without the pointless transport section doesn't have any LED strip for the channels, so it's game over.


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## samphony (Aug 20, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Wed Aug 20 said:


> synthetic @ Wed Aug 20 said:
> 
> 
> > Every few years I try to talk myself into one, then I read reviews again and don't. So cool on paper.
> ...



To the OP This is enough said. Guy nailed it here. From my side I can say cubase and logic work very well with the artist series at least the artist mix. 

And like Guy said one has to learn to integrate it into the current workflow. It's like learning an instrument.


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## stonzthro (Aug 20, 2014)

Funny - I bought the Artist Transport last week, tried several times to get it to work correctly with Logic and had some good results, but mostly constant lost connection or worse - a complete hijacking of my system. I'm sure it has everything to do with Logic, but since that's what I'm on - I sent it back. I really wanted it to work! Bottom line review: Best of luck if you are on Logic - some people report it works well - I can't. 

I did find it funny that one of the solutions to getting it to work properly on the Avid website was to create a new user profile and use that profile only when working with EuCon - now that's some lazy programming!


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## 5Lives (Aug 21, 2014)

I had a Mix for a couple of years, but EuCon 3.x does not work properly. Did not connect at all in PT11 or in my other DAWs. 2.7x was solid and it was a lot of fun to use the unit at that moment but AVID support is just terrible when it comes to these units now.

Behringer is supposed to be shipping their new X-Touch interfaces in a couple of months - use HUI / Mackie Control and look pretty nice.


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## synthetic (Aug 21, 2014)

I have friends who said the faders were incredibly noisy/chattery to the point they stopped using them. Others who had the front panel crack around the screws. I've tried them many times and the fader quality is the biggest problem for me. If they had a version for twice the price with better faders I would probably get one or two.


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 21, 2014)

synthetic @ Thu Aug 21 said:


> I have friends who said the faders were incredibly noisy/chattery to the point they stopped using them. Others who had the front panel crack around the screws. I've tried them many times and the fader quality is the biggest problem for me. If they had a version for twice the price with better faders I would probably get one or two.



A lot of folks have complained about the fader quality - I don't get it. I frequently mix on Studers, Calrecs, Neves. Are the Avid's of that quality? Not quite, no, but they are way, way better than budget consoles. Their main characteristic is that they feel light. But they don't stick, they're responsive to small changes, they're long throw and in my experience reliable. Earlier versions of the firmware were too aggressive on fast changes - the caps were even known to fly off when going from zero to infinity - but they fixed that, and they seem less nervy all round these days.

FWIW, I do know that the BBC's main weekly live music show is entirely dubbed using the Avid Artists btw, and the show's sound supervisor is quite happy with them


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## kdm (Aug 21, 2014)

The newer black Avid Artists seem to have fixed some of the problems with the earlier Euphonix units (face cracking, etc). I like mine. Works well.

The key is to stick with the last 2.x release. 3.x didn't work with Nuendo the last time I tried it. The older versions are on the Avid support site if you have a registered unit. 

For a small format controller, the Artist Control is hard to beat. Short of a Nuage or Avid controller with ProTools, these are pretty much the only option for integrated DAW control. Programmable touch screen keys are the ticket to fast work, especially with Cubase/Nuendo with customizable key switches and macros. I can't comment on Logic integration however. There is no reason to not consider having a separate midi controller for CC faders/switches. Each can serve a different purpose and work quite well together.


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