# How to not sound like you?



## ranaprathap (Oct 26, 2016)

There is this music director who has composed music for over a thousand films. That is over 4000 original songs (at an average of 4 songs per movie) plus original background score for those 1000 films. In addition, he has also done symphony for RPO, symphonic oratorio, a few fusion albums and plenty of other stuff. He is still actively composing for new movies.

My question is how can a composer, after composing for so long, still keep their creative juices flowing and come up with new stuff? And how can you ensure that your new stuff don't have any of the old phrases you used? How to make sure that your new stuff don't sound like your own old stuff?

Edit: He is the Indian composer Ilaiyaraaja. His work is primarily in the south indian film industry.


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## d.healey (Oct 26, 2016)

I bet he has reused stuff


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## chillbot (Oct 26, 2016)

My guess is the long answer is it's really difficult and takes a lot of hard work and discipline.

If you're looking for shortcuts some answers could include:

- Buy tons of new samples all the time, make sure you're constantly using new sounds especially newer synth and sound design stuff (or make your own). Let the developers do the work for you.

- Change up your template a lot, don't get stuck always using the same patches for the same stuff.

- Sometimes they don't want you to sound different, sometimes they hire you to sound just like all your other stuff because it works. In which case don't worry about just make sure it's different enough to not get sued.

- For every 12 tracks you write, write in 12 different keys (tonics). I do this just as a rule... I find I naturally do slightly different things in different keys.

- Write from the end of the piece backwards, or write from last-to-first instrumentation-wise. Like I usually start with piano or marcato strings and I might finish with adding timpani hits or risers/wooshes. So start with your timpani hits or risers/wooshes and go backwards from there. Any little trick to keep your mind thinking about it differently. Sometimes I will write a track writing each individual part separately and never listen to the entire project together until I'm finished (sometimes this doesn't work so well).

- Obviously also keep learning, keep listening to _everything_, take online classes, read books.


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## Mike Fox (Oct 26, 2016)

d.healey said:


> I bet he has reused stuff


This.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 26, 2016)

I dunno. For me the battle is the opposite - how not to sound like everyone else!


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## Living Fossil (Oct 26, 2016)

ranaprathap said:


> There is this music director who has composed music for over a thousand films.



What's his name?


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## mc_deli (Oct 26, 2016)

Living Fossil said:


> What's his name?



Oh yeah
I know what's his name


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## Svyato (Oct 26, 2016)

chillbot said:


> My guess is the long answer is it's really difficult and takes a lot of hard work and discipline.
> 
> If you're looking for shortcuts some answers could include:
> 
> ...




I think more than using new patches, you must be able to use the sames patches in very different ways. Mixing it into the other instruments within a new approach, using it for different things than usual, etc... Learning to use the mixer tools of you DAW as an entire musical instrument is one of the key of non getting "old" (= repetitive) in your productions .... if somebody has other ideas...


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## Saxer (Oct 26, 2016)

Words, phrases and even sentences are more or less the same in a lot of books. That doesn't mean they all tell the same story.


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## ranaprathap (Oct 26, 2016)

d.healey said:


> I bet he has reused stuff



I haven't heard all his 4000+ songs, but I am sure you are right in this. But then I am familiar with his work enough to know that majority of his works have been massive hits on its own merit, and the amount of reuse has been surprisingly less than what one would expect, for such a huge body of work.


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## ranaprathap (Oct 26, 2016)

chillbot said:


> My guess is the long answer is it's really difficult and takes a lot of hard work and discipline.
> 
> If you're looking for shortcuts some answers could include:
> 
> ...



All great tips. Thanks a lot. I particularly liked your suggestion to write every next song in a different key. I am going to start doing it right away. I am done with D and E.


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## ranaprathap (Oct 26, 2016)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I dunno. For me the battle is the opposite - how not to sound like everyone else!



Yes, that is the struggle for most of us. But then, for someone with a large body of work, and for someone who has already established their own sonic palette through their popularity, it might be necessary at some point to not go back and do whatever they had already done, I think.


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## ranaprathap (Oct 26, 2016)

Living Fossil said:


> What's his name?



He is the Indian composer Ilaiyaraaja. His work is primarily in the south indian film industry. 



It is a western-indian classical fusion based on _Preludium in E _by Bach. Wait till 2 minute mark.


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## Suganthan (Oct 26, 2016)

Well, one composer that I know - Ilayaraja - have done around 1000 films and 6000 songs. Most of the songs are amazingly original and rich(I mean the music for masses, also keeping it rich). I consider him as one of the musicians who have very deep musical understanding with such originality. Western classical as well as Indian classical(carnatic mostly). I'd say he is our Indian Aaron Copland in terms of originality(for explaining purpose).

In Indian music, before Illayaraja period, if you notice, the music would be mostly non-harmonic and melody centric. The reason would be obviously because we(mass Indians) have roots of non-harmonic classical music and not western harmonic music. Illayaraja is one of the pioneers in incorporating western theory with Indian classical in film music and songs. By western theory I mean, canons, contrapuntal melodies, modulations, rich orchestration, etc, along with very rich kamakams(a term for vocal pitch oscillations in carnatic music), ragas, etc. Can you believe some of our film songs are still that rich?(remember we are talking about creating rich music for masses not for elite)

Coming to your question about creative juices. I'd say learning how to bring up with countless ideas(melodic, harmonic, textural, orchestral, technology based, etc) in a small amount of time is crucial. By math, Illayaraja have done average 2 films/month. 15 days to write, orchestrate, record the songs as well as the BGM. Just imagine, because most of his works have been done when there were no computers. He never ran out of amazing ideas and variations that is why.


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## Michael K. Bain (Oct 26, 2016)

Only occasionally have I been able to write songs "in the style of...". It always comes out sounding like me. And I _really_ want to write an ELO type of song.


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## Maestro1972 (Oct 26, 2016)

I discussed something very similar with my piano teacher some time back and she had an interesting perspective, and I paraphrase,...

Melodies are like people talking. When we talk, we often use similar or exact phrases repeatedly even though the content of what we are talking about is nothing alike. So don't be afraid of using phrases that you have used before. But instead, be weary of having the same conversation over and over again...nobody likes that.


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## ranaprathap (Oct 26, 2016)

Maestro1972 said:


> I discussed something very similar with my piano teacher some time back and she had an interesting perspective, and I paraphrase,...
> 
> Melodies are like people talking. When we talk, we often use similar or exact phrases repeatedly even though the content of what we are talking about is nothing alike. So don't be afraid of using phrases that you have used before. But instead, be weary of having the same conversation over and over again...nobody likes that.


It is a very good point. But will we ever reach a point where we don't have anything new to talk about?


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## ranaprathap (Oct 26, 2016)

Suganthan said:


> Well, one composer that I know - Ilayaraja - have done around 1000 films and 6000 songs. Most of the songs are amazingly original and rich(I mean the music for masses, also keeping it rich). I consider him as one of the musicians who have very deep musical understanding with such originality. Western classical as well as Indian classical(carnatic mostly). I'd say he is our Indian Aaron Copland in terms of originality(for explaining purpose).
> 
> In Indian music, before Illayaraja period, if you notice, the music would be mostly non-harmonic and melody centric. The reason would be obviously because we(mass Indians) have roots of non-harmonic classical music and not western harmonic music. Illayaraja is one of the pioneers in incorporating western theory with Indian classical in film music and songs. By western theory I mean, canons, contrapuntal melodies, modulations, rich orchestration, etc, along with very rich kamakams(a term for vocal pitch oscillations in carnatic music), ragas, etc. Can you believe some of our film songs are still that rich?(remember we are talking about creating rich music for masses not for elite)
> 
> Coming to your question about creative juices. I'd say learning how to bring up with countless ideas(melodic, harmonic, textural, orchestral, technology based, etc) in a small amount of time is crucial. By math, Illayaraja have done average 2 films/month. 15 days to write, orchestrate, record the songs as well as the BGM. Just imagine, because most of his works have been done when there were no computers. He never ran out of amazing ideas and variations that is why.



I was talking about the same composer.


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## Svyato (Oct 26, 2016)

ranaprathap said:


> It is a very good point. But will we ever reach a point where we don't have anything new to talk about?


if you lived things and you feel the need to tell them, yes... if you don't feel your music, those who gonna listen to it won't feel anything... it's not about brain, it's about heart... some say that if your own music doesn't sincerly make you cry, it will be the same for those who gonna listen to it: they would have the same feelings intensity that you had during composition...


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## chillbot (Oct 26, 2016)

I loved the metaphor, at first. But what if you HAD to talk, all the time. What if people paid you to talk all day every day? What do you do then? I imagine it would be very hard to talk so much without telling some of the same stories or talking about a lot of the same stuff. What if you had to tell better stories than the next guy so that people would continue to pay you to talk? Tough gig.


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## Svyato (Oct 26, 2016)

chillbot said:


> I loved the metaphor, at first. But what if you HAD to talk, all the time. What if people paid you to talk all day every day? What do you do then? I imagine it would be very hard to talk so much without telling some of the same stories or talking about a lot of the same stuff. What if you had to tell better stories than the next guy so that people would continue to pay you to talk? Tough gig.



For answering you in another way: you can't control inspiration but you can learn how to manage it. For example, you can create a lot of various inspired things, put them a part, and re-use them for your future projects.


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## ranaprathap (Oct 26, 2016)

Svyato said:


> if you lived things and you feel the need to tell them, yes... if you don't feel your music, those who gonna listen to it won't feel anything... it's not about brain, it's about heart... some say that if your own music doesn't sincerly make you cry, it will be the same for those who gonna listen to it: they would have the same feelings intensity that you had during composition...



This is deviating from the topic little bit. When people are faced with deadlines, relying on inspiration to come up with new work may not be the best option. And music is surprisingly http://music.stackexchange.com/questions/46437/do-real-life-emotional-experiences-affect-ones-creative-ability (more brain than heart). What you said is absolutely correct. But not everyone may have the luxury of doing so. That's why I liked a lot of chillbot's suggestions.


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