# The ultimate reverb thread



## southnorth (Jan 21, 2011)

So, what are the best reverbs (VSTe) available? I do believe Altiverb comes high on the list, but it's kinda expensive, so I'm looking for something else. Synthetic has already made a great suggestion, but it would be interesting to hear more.

So why not make a top 5 regardless of price, and one top 5 of more cheaper, yet good sounding ones?


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## jlb (Jan 21, 2011)

I know there has been loads of talk about reverbs, but I cant decide either, between:

Relab LX480 plugin
A second hand Lexicon PCM 90 if I can find one
Lexicon PCM plug in (very expensive)
This new spaces thing

jlb


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## hbuus (Jan 21, 2011)

Aether from 2CAudio is popular:
http://www.2caudio.com/products/aether/index.html

Best,
Henrik


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## bryla (Jan 21, 2011)

A guy behind TC reverbs recently did algorithms for a Softube Reverb:

http://www.softube.com/tsar1_reverb.php


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## Ryan Scully (Jan 21, 2011)

2CAudio also just released Breeze - A new algorithm verb at a GREAT price for the quality:

http://www.2caudio.com/products/breeze/




Liquidsonics also makes a great convolution reverb, Reverberate, at a steal of a price too...

http://www.liquidsonics.com/home.htm


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## jlb (Jan 21, 2011)

Does anyone have the Relab LX480 plug in and what do they think of it?

jlb


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## reddognoyz (Jan 21, 2011)

I lke the new EastWest Space thing, just kinda expensive


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 21, 2011)

Breeze is definitely worth checking out, looks like it's still $99 even that was supposed to end so if you're interested I wouldn't wait.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 21, 2011)

From now on, QL Spaces plus UAD EMT plates for me.


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## Danny_Owen (Jan 21, 2011)

I have to go with Spaces (which I've now bought). I've only tried a few: Space Designer, Oxford Reverb, and both the Lexicon plug-ins, and I have to say for the type of work I do Spaces is the most open and beautiful sounding out of the box I've heard. And it's very competitively priced. I also love the fact that Nick went to the trouble of sampling from every section of the orchestra, for me that's a real selling point.

Haven't really tried the plate reverbs that much, but for churches, halls etc it's a beast.


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## bluejay (Jan 21, 2011)

Danny, how is Spaces for CPU? Can you literally add one instance for each section of the orchestra?


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jan 21, 2011)

VSL Convolution is extremely high quality!


If I had to buy any convolution plugin - it would be the Vienna Convolution Reverb.

The suite has excellent plug ins and you cannot go wrong with anyone of them.

If you then buy FORTI or SERTI - its just one of the best sounding stuff out there.

For algo reverbs which are extremely high quality, one must check out 2C Audio Aether and Breeze.

Particularly Breeze - the price is just a joke for the quality it offers. I would buy that in a heart beat. 

I am now using Vienna Suite and Breeze (Also have Aether but am not using it because I have maxed out my CPU for now). This combination is heavenly for orchestral music for sure. Vienna Suite's other plugins are just as good!


Tanuj.


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## Danny_Owen (Jan 21, 2011)

I would say that depends on your machine- I'm on an 8 core and am having no problems at all getting one reverb per section (though some are paired up- e.g. woodwinds is counted as one section. trumpets & trombones as another, french horns as another), so it's not as many as you'd think.

Certainly no more consuming that Space Designer I'd say.


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## gsilbers (Jan 21, 2011)

jlb @ Fri Jan 21 said:


> Does anyone have the Relab LX480 plug in and what do they think of it?
> 
> jlb



love it. 

do a search in gearslutz about it and youll see my demos audio files comparing it to the pcm and aether. not the most profesional demo u get the idea of how it sound. 

the relab is very good but u have to program it. the presets are just a starting point. 
buti got close to a nice preset of the pcm. so thats about the same quality plugin for $1k less. not that the PCM is not good but not a thousand dollars more good.


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## gsilbers (Jan 21, 2011)

southnorth @ Fri Jan 21 said:


> So, what are the best reverbs (VSTe) available? I do believe Altiverb comes high on the list, but it's kinda expensive, so I'm looking for something else. Synthetic has already made a great suggestion, but it would be interesting to hear more.
> 
> So why not make a top 5 regardless of price, and one top 5 of more cheaper, yet good sounding ones?



also be aware that for convoluion reverbs its mostly about the IR. so you can get 
some nice IR from samplicity on waves ir1 and would be like buying one of the other nice convo verbs.


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## southnorth (Jan 21, 2011)

Great guys, a lot of good proposals! Thanks for taking the time!


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## madbulk (Jan 21, 2011)

Clearly the ultimate reverb thread. Won't need to talk about this again for a while.


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## jlb (Jan 21, 2011)

gsilbers @ Fri Jan 21 said:


> jlb @ Fri Jan 21 said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have the Relab LX480 plug in and what do they think of it?
> ...



I will have a look thanks gsilbers. I will also have a look at this spaces thing, I very much like the idea of each orchestra section being catered for

jlb


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## whinecellar (Jan 22, 2011)

Such a subjective topic obviously, but put me down for a "+1" on 2c's Breeze (or Aether). Blows away just about anything else I've heard until you get into the Lex LXP/PCM bundles, and that's saying something as there's a lot of good stuff out there! There's a thread over on GS about it, and if you're curious I posted some comparisons:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6202216-post208.html

That said, there's a use for just about anything. I'm digging Valhalla's "Shimmer" for certain otherwordly effects; still love ArtsAcoustic for brass in action cues, and for overall orchestral tails I still think the Lex LXP/PCM bundles are king.

At the end of the day though I'm gonna contradict myself and say I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all answer: certain things just sound better on certain things 

Cheers,


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## synergy543 (Jan 22, 2011)

Jim, thanks for the heads up on this link and for sharing presets and comparisons!

btw, I feel like a Luddite without an iPad but happy as a clam with the PC1600 - thanks.


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## whinecellar (Jan 22, 2011)

Happy to! Glad you're enjoying the PC1600 - great box for sure. I do love having all my controls on the iPad, but I sure wish it had some tactile feedback!


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## Daniel James (Jan 22, 2011)

I use ArtsAcoustic reverb on everything. It has a really nice and intuitive layout .

I find it works great on orchestral instruments and can also create some really cool textures with more extreme settings.

Here are a few videos I made using it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uVD8NP5QKE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o610Eax4upg

Dan


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## whinecellar (Jan 22, 2011)

Dan, your music is top-notch; incredibly well conceived & executed! Keep up the great work.

I think your stuff was where I first heard of ArtsAcoustic a year or two back - thanks for the great tip. It seems to be a well-kept secret for sure...


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## Rob (Jan 23, 2011)

I'd add CSR reverb from IK Multimedia, really nice and dense...


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## bryla (Jan 23, 2011)

oh yeah! great plate in CSR. People forget about this one, but in IK's mastering suite or something (where you get T-Racks) it's pretty cheap


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## R.Cato (Jan 23, 2011)

Daniel James @ Sat Jan 22 said:


> I use ArtsAcoustic reverb on everything. It has a really nice and intuitive layout .
> 
> I find it works great on orchestral instruments and can also create some really cool textures with more extreme settings.
> 
> ...



I visited the ArtsAccoustic website after I saw your video with LASS and Symphobia, checked out the demos and purchased it. I just have to say it's worth every single penny. For 189 Euros a no brainer.


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## jamwerks (Jan 23, 2011)

My biggest reverb question, with Aether & others out there, does a Bricasti still make sense? Just speculating here that MIR pro (which should be out in the coming months) will probably be (by far?) the best at putting our samples in a room and giving them life. o-[][]-o


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## Joe S (Jan 23, 2011)

You really have to try EWQL Spaces. I have a Bricasti and some of Spaces sounds very similar, but then there are some halls in Spaces which sound more alive and real than Bricasti.


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## jamwerks (Jan 23, 2011)

Yeah Spaces looks interesting. I’ll definitely buy once they come out in 64 bit. The price seems nice too!


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## whinecellar (Jan 24, 2011)

jamwerks @ Sun Jan 23 said:


> does a Bricasti still make sense?



If you have the $$$ and you absolutely have to have that particular sound, then I suppose it does. Personally I don't think it gets appreciably better than the Lex PCM bundle but again, this stuff is so subjective. Also, these are important factors in favor of Lex PCM (or whatever plugin floats your boat):

1. multiple instances (the Lex stuff is astonishingly efficient)
2. your settings get recalled with your project
3. offline rendering
4. fraction of the price of a Bricasti

Back to the original point though: if you have the money and it's a must-have flavor, the rest is moot. There's obviously a reason the Bricasti stuff is so highly regarded


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 24, 2011)

Although I am also a reverb fanatic (you know why) I think this thread should not be in the Samples section, but in the Post Pro and Mixing section.


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## jsaras (May 3, 2011)

Has anyone done an in-depth comparison between ValhallaRoom and 2CAudio Breeze? I have Breeze and I like it a lot. 

VRoom generally seems to be more dynamic than Breeze (which I like) and it does "bright" reverberation very well. It's good times for algo reverbs!


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## Dan Mott (May 3, 2011)

Here are some opinions I have on some reverbs since I'm still on the hunt to find one I well and truly love, I have tried so many and here goes.

RELAB LX480 = very nice tails, and very lush sounding. From playing around with this verb for ages I have to say that if you are going to buy the lexicon PCM native then don't! Buy this plugin instead. I think it has a much better sound IMO. Its a bit less muddy and the tails seem to flow really nicely which is quite good for ambient kind of stuff. I have to say that I don't like it very much on strings, it just doesn't sound right IMO, at least for what i want to do.


LEXICON PCM NATIVE = love this verb on strings a lot. Besides that I think it has a great sound, it's a bit of s hog in the mix though, but using EQ on your verb is a great work around for this. I absolutely hate this verb for drums, it seems no mattermhow much I tweak the verb, I just cannot stand how drums sound in it, so I always avoided this and used something else, it has a very strange character to it. This verb can also by a great element for real spacey type stuff, however i think IMO, that this verb is just naturally dark and muddy for my tastes.


AETHER/BREEZE = I didn't like Aether at all to be honest. For me I could never just bring it up and be statisfied with a few tweaks here and there. It seemed to have a cheap sound to my ears, from going through all the presets, to trying to make my own. I also do not like the way it's layed out. Breeze, however was much better sounding IMO, but I didn't like the way it sounded on vocals, nor drums. This one also has a certain character to it and it's one that doesn't really make me go 'wow'. This verb is quite light and it still has that kind of cheap sound. This is just IMO. It seems that it sound good on certain things, but not others no matter what I do.

WAVES REN VERB = this is great all round verb IMO. This pretty much sounds great on anything, and I'd suggest composers to have this in their arsenal for a simple and effective verb they can just slap on without any CPU worries. Sounds great on drums, strings and synths, also vocals. It has a nice standard sound, but I tend not to use this much (since I have it as part of the REN bundle) because I'm looking for something with a little more character than this. 

LEXICON LXP NATIVE = from what I remember when trying it ages ago, I quite liked this sound. It sounded great on everything with a really lovely character. I'd choose this over the PCM because it's a little lighter sounding, but still maintaining that lovely spacey lexicon sound. I was comparing the PCM and LXP and there really isn't muchof a different to my ears, besides what I said about the LXP being a little lighter sounding, letting sounds breath through the mix a little more. Not cheap, but I'm considering this one.

I have tried more verbs, including some of the ones mentioned in this thread, but I wanted to talk about the ones that stood out for me. IMO, I think finding that one verb you love is a great way to work instead of using a bunch of different verbs. I like to have everything sound like it's all in one massive space, but of course adjusting different settings for each sound. I feel it sounds more natural this way IMO. You should download demos of every reverb you know of and try them, which is what I did and still am doing. Find one that generally works well on most sounds because that's a real advantage and a money saver too.

nobody can tell you what the best reverb is, they can only recommend it. Trust me, it's up to your ears to decide. Someone could suggest a verb and say it's the best and so forth, but you could hate it, for example I don't like AETHER 

If I was to suggest some verbs to you, I'd look at the relab one, LXP and the REN verb.

Cheers.


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## bryla (May 3, 2011)

Good to hear that you're on the Relab wagon now 

With updating Komplete I got Reflektor, which I think has some nice included IR's and great engine and just the tweakability that I need - some more than Spaces but definately not as much as Altiverb! The sound is really nice for both ER's and Tails with the included IR's, but now I'm trying to figure out how to import ones own IR's as I've been told.


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## chimuelo (May 3, 2011)

I have nothing but a decade of pleasure from using Relabs DSP version of several 480L Algos.
Inverse, Ambience, Plate, Chorus-Delay, etc.
I can use them on AUX channels, Master Effect or Channels.
My live method is having ER's on Channels for placement/depth, then bouncing between Halls, Rooms, etc. on AUX 1-6.
Martin is afflicted by the disease known in medical circles as HRS and suffers from severe sleeploss, yet he owns every hardware reverb imaginable and still continues to bring us quality products, even if they suffer from the Native protocol...... :mrgreen: 
The deadly disease is called Hardware Reverb Syndrome.
Afflicted ones usually can be seen sleeping on top of 30+ hardware reverbs, with a thick comforter on top.

Below is just a single 480L Plate algo. Anyone who has had the pleasure of using the real hardware will recognize that every detail and feature has been included.


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## bsound76 (May 3, 2011)

Hey Chimuelo- I don't understand- you say you have a decade of pleasure from using relab's 480 algos, but the 480 plugin has only been out for like a year, tops. And the graphic you posted doesn't match the LX480 plugin's gui.

so what exactly is is that you are talking about? did relab do some earlier work (aside from X-verb and CSR)

Just curious, because I love Relab's work.


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## chimuelo (May 3, 2011)

These are Martins' little gems. Even though the company called itself Sonic Timeworks, Martins email was always relabs.dk.
When he decided to go with Native it was because he also saw the DSP market dwindling away.
I have been using many such DSP for years that are just starting to become native.
Native Processing has finally started rivalling the power of DSP and the ever shrinking DSP market is a sign of the times.
Below is a plug that's making headway in the Native Market recently, and I have been using it also for years.
It's the finest Mid-Side Mastering EQ I've ever used, and recording a Piano or Acoustic Guitar using Mid/Side techniques and this plug are just heavenly.

Back On Topic.
Relab.dk has so much experience with the real hardware and even the architechtural engineering ascpects, you should keep your eyes on them.
THey are not new to the game, just the Native markets.


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## bsound76 (May 3, 2011)

Thanks for the explanation. So was the DSP that ran Sonic Timeworks the Scope Pulsar?

Yup, I dig all work they (Relab) have done. Cool to know they've been at it longer than I thought. Am looking forward for the full version of the 480 plug.


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## Mr. Anxiety (May 3, 2011)

Does QL Spaces run in 64 bit on PC?

It would probably be a nice plug in for VE Pro.

Mr A


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## Hannes_F (May 4, 2011)

EAReverb is having a group buy right now. I don't use it for tails but for ERs it is very flexible and I like it a lot.

http://www.eareckon.com/index.php?optio ... 75&lang=en


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## Dan Mott (May 5, 2011)

Just bought the Lexicon LXP Native and I'm loving it. The plates are great, and you can really create some nice soundscape ambients with the hall verbs.


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## kdm (May 5, 2011)

I'll ditto some similar recommendations here:

Algorithmic:

Relab's LX480 is excellent - one of the best algorithmic imho. My favorite overall for quality and price. 

Flux's Verb is also fantastic for cleaner sounding space-recreation reverbs, and the only 5.1 algo verb I know of (Virsyn Reflect may be also...). The LX480 is lusher generally - but both can be tweaked and probably approximate one another reasonably well. Flux Verb is the most tweakable algo verb I've used, and is a killer surround verb. Sounds very open, and easy to get a great sound. Pricier than most, other than the PCM Native bundle.

Lexicon's PCM Native is also one of the best with the above two, and is very flexible, but for the money, the LX480 has to be the best deal. The LXP bundle also sounds great - just less tweakable, but still easily adaptable to most any use, including orchestral mockups/mixes. 

For convolution:

Reverberate with Samplicity's M7 true stereo impulses. The added modulation really helps defer some static aspects of convolution.
Spaces sounds great as well - very nice impulses there - lush and warm with plenty of depth.


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## Patrick de Caumette (May 5, 2011)

UAD released the Lexicon 224 today.
Would't be surprised if it was killer...


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## Dan Mott (May 5, 2011)

I think that the worst thing about the Relab verb (for me atleast) is that it's pretty CPU intensive and it's slow to load. It's also slow to open and close. I'm using it in Pro Tools as the RTAS version and I thought it may be because RTAS reacts different, but even using as a VST in FL Studio still had the same thing.

Also, I wish you could get a bigger size room than just 39, that's why I chose the LXP because I generally love bigger rooms and such. I also wanted a lighter verb so.

Don't know if anyone else experiences this.


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## RiffWraith (May 6, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Fri May 06 said:


> I think that the worst thing about the Relab verb (for me atleast) is that it's pretty CPU intensive and it's slow to load. It's also slow to open and close. I'm using it in Pro Tools as the RTAS version and I thought it may be because RTAS reacts different, but even using as a VST in FL Studio still had the same thing.



When you say it's slow to open and close, do you mean that when you go to open it, the GUI shell opens, but is empty - so all you see is a grey box....then the GUI elements appear after a few seconds? Or somethign else?


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## Ashermusic (May 6, 2011)

Patrick de Caumette @ Thu May 05 said:


> UAD released the Lexicon 224 today.
> Would't be surprised if it was killer...



It is.


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## Dan Mott (May 6, 2011)

RiffWraith @ Fri May 06 said:


> Dan-Jay @ Fri May 06 said:
> 
> 
> > I think that the worst thing about the Relab verb (for me atleast) is that it's pretty CPU intensive and it's slow to load. It's also slow to open and close. I'm using it in Pro Tools as the RTAS version and I thought it may be because RTAS reacts different, but even using as a VST in FL Studio still had the same thing.
> ...



Not exactly.

It's just slow to open, and I have to wait way longer than all my other plugins.

Annoying really. I chose the LXP instead.


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## chimuelo (May 6, 2011)

UAD doesn't release any time based effects that aren't killer.
What most people seem to overlook is, that in the best hardware reverb units
DSP chips are used for the calculations.
DSP Developers simply use system RAM, or dedicated RAM in the more espensive 
rigs, to bring hardware quality to a Mac/PC.


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## ErnestCholakis (May 6, 2011)

Here is a link http://www.numericalsound.com/FORTI_SERTI_RI_Shootout.html
with a comparison of many Numerical Sound, Altiverb, Lexicion & Bricasti impulses. A very tight bright full range dry snare was used. 

Ernest Cholakis
Numerical Sound/ProAudioVault
www.numericalsound.com
www.proaudiovault.com


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## germancomponist (May 6, 2011)

Do you all know the great IrcamSPAT?

In another thread, Re-Peat posted some very cool examples. Look here:http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=274818&no=1#274818


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## esteso (May 6, 2011)

The Relab gui is slow to open but Martin is aware of it and has promised a fix. Great plug, I've had the demo for a few weeks. It seems best perhaps if you give it a lot of space. It's so dense it demands the respect. 

I trade off with Valhalla room which I love, is ridiculously cheap and is versatile. I spent a few hours programming it to match the Relab 480L and got pretty close. Nothing you would hear in a mix or if you weren't directly comparing them.

Aether is too confusing. Well not really, but there's too much going on for my tastes. Breeze is probably good but not compared to Valhalla Room andespecially for the money.


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## Cinemascore (May 10, 2011)

esteso @ Fri May 06 said:


> I spent a few hours programming it to match the Relab 480L and got pretty close. Nothing you would hear in a mix or if you weren't directly comparing them.



If you wouldn't mind sharing your work, would you consider posting a few of your Relab 480L matched VRoom patches? I'd really like to hear them! Just copy from VRoom into your clipboard and paste 'em right here, like this:

<ValhallaRoom pluginVersion="1.0.4" presetName="VideoIntro" mix="0.507000029" predelay="0" decay="0.300000012" HighCut="0.344966441" earlyLateMix="1" lateSize="0.579999983" lateCross="0.150000006" lateModRate="0.088888891" lateModDepth="0.280000001" RTBassMultiply="0" RTXover="0.113131315" RTHighMultiply="0" RTHighXover="0.2966443" earlySize="0.0440440439" earlyCross="0.0199999996" earlyModRate="0.169696972" earlyModDepth="0.129999995" earlySend="0" diffusion="1" type="0.25"/>

(This example is from Sean himself copied and pasted from this Gearslutz forum: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-prod ... om-23.html)

There is a chap that goes by the name of "Den" that is making some fantastic patches for VRoom and posting them for everyone within the thread listed above.

Thanks!


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## Stephen Baysted (May 10, 2011)

Ashermusic @ Fri May 06 said:


> Patrick de Caumette @ Thu May 05 said:
> 
> 
> > UAD released the Lexicon 224 today.
> ...



It is indeed Jay and Patrick. I think it's really fabulous. Just demoing it atm. I'm actually a great fan of TC verbs - have an M3000 unit in the rack - but this has a real body to it and the way you can crossfade like the real thing is amazingly useful. 

Cheers

Stephen


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## JohnG (May 10, 2011)

aaaahhh

I wish you hadn't said that, Stephen!

it's...just...sitting...there...taunting....


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## Stephen Baysted (May 10, 2011)

JohnG @ Tue May 10 said:


> aaaahhh
> 
> I wish you hadn't said that, Stephen!
> 
> it's...just...sitting...there...taunting....



Sorry about that John - 0oD


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## Patrick de Caumette (May 10, 2011)

Just go for it John, you know you want it! o=?


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## Hannes_F (May 10, 2011)

+ 1 for EAReverb. I use it in conjunction with QuantumSpaces (tails in EAReverb toned down a bit).


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## marcotronic (May 11, 2011)

EAReverb is cool!!!

Come on, guys - join the group-buy!

http://www.eareckon.com/index.php?optio ... 74&lang=en

Marco


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## christos.andreou (May 12, 2011)

Great to see people here which I met already on FB. Now I haven't seen anyone mentioning any IR libraries like *Briscati* or *Acousticas L224 Lexicon*. Is anyone using them? 

If, yes what with? Waves IR-1/IR-L? Altiverb?


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## Rob (May 12, 2011)

christos.andreou @ 12th May 2011 said:


> Great to see people here which I met already on FB. Now I haven't seen anyone mentioning any IR libraries like *Briscati* or *Acousticas L224 Lexicon*. Is anyone using them?
> 
> If, yes what with? Waves IR-1/IR-L? Altiverb?



Peter Roos' Bricasti ir library is among my favourites... very detailed and pure.
Love to load them into the small IR-L...


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## JT3_Jon (May 12, 2011)

Just got an email from VSL announcing a new reverb called "hybrid reverb" which as they say "Combines natural Convolution Early Reflections with the rich tails of Algorithmic Reverb." 

Sounds very interesting!


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## Lunatique (May 23, 2011)

For those of you that have tried different convolution reverbs--does the same IR sound different when run on different convolution reverbs? Anyone have demo clips that compare how differently the same IR sounds when run on different convolution reverbs?


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