# Should a Mac Studio be the heart of my new set up? What else should be there? (Media / TV Composer - full time).



## Minsky (Aug 24, 2022)

I am considering a refresh of my set up... here's why > I have a 2009 model (bought 2011) Mac Pro 5,1 refreshed (hacked) to 96Gb ram (though 16 is unseated / not working. It's a 6 core dual intel running on OSX Sierra. It's getting slow and there's a load of software I've bought that I simply can't install (Kontakt can't be updated etc). My writing partner (TV / Media work) bought an intel Mac Pro in 2020 which means I can't open his Logic files .. this is a real killer! I'm looking at a Mac Studio Ultra (20 cores whatever with 128Gb ram) and thinking that'd probably be enough...right? I'd love to hear what you'd recommend I look at for a new set up ..or share your general thoughts. Here's my currents et up:

Mac Pro 5,1 80GB Ram, 6 Core Dual, OSX Sierra. > Going to Mac Studio 20 Core CPU, 48 GPU, 128GB Ram, 2TB Storage (housing samples externally). (£5199.00)

Audio Interface is UAD Firewire Apollo 8 (with Quad Satellite) > Thinking I could probably get away with Apollo Twin as I only track guitars, Vox, soloists (strings / woods / brass) at my studio and go to other places to record more players.. or is the Apollo 8 (thunderbolt) worth it - I know the converters are better ... but ..do they really notice? 

I'm using a mix of SSD and 7200 platter drives - Ill need about 16 Tb in order to grow into .. will get some new drives. I was going to house these externally using OWC style tech or Black Magic dock etc. What do you use for this? 

For my guitars I'm using (infrequently) Two Notes (Live) but am considering UA Ox Top Amp (which I like the sound of but seems limited for the £, or Kemper profiler (which looks amazing). 

For Mid Orchestration I use faders on a Nectar panorama P1 (though it's too complex for what I am using it for and I'm into streamlining stuff here ... was really looking for some decent long faders (maybe 4 of them). Any recommendations? (btw I am using VE pro already but not MIR). 

My monitors are Adams, they're staying as I like them. 

I don't use any outboard gear really / synths etc... 

Am I missing anything? ...You'll probably be asking 'okay sure, but what do you want to spend?!' - good question.. answer .. I want to come in under £10k. I only want to get what I need, I want to keep it simple and as quick to use as possible. Like most of us .. I LOVE tech and all it's possibilities but once I get something to work I don't want to change it unless I have to .. I just want to write. 

TIA, you are awesome for responding!


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## Wunderhorn (Aug 24, 2022)

To be honest I would not buy a computer that does not have internal PCI slots and cannot be upgraded with RAM beyond 128.

If you work full time then a computer is not the thing where cutting corners is smart. It'll be the basis of all your work every working minute. Inconveniences and deficiencies will add up even if they seem small at first. In the long range this is adding up in time which eats away from your productive time.


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## Spid (Aug 24, 2022)

@Minsky I have one major question: Do you really need to change your audio interface? I mean, you could easily buy a Thunderbolt to Firewire dongle/hub and keep the Apollo 8 FW for now and then invest more on your computer/system... you could always change your audio interface later if you really think you need to. I don't really believe you need to tho; so you could focus on something else.

For instance, I would try to get a 4TB internal SSD, because it has been proven that 4TB and 8TB SSD in new M1 Macs are faster than the 1TB and 2TB version. It's not a lot faster, but still they are.

For instance, I went with the 8TB internal on my MBP M1 Max, and I can reach speed over 5500 MB/s, so it helps to have a template where I don't load everything, I can just load banks by activating tracks and I know in 1 or 2s they're loaded. Also, everything is pretty fast... 

Of course, just like you, I would need more than 8TB to install all banks, but it helps to keep all the main banks internally and then have the external drives for rare banks, sound fx or else... At worse, I would go for a 4TB and then I would go for an enclosure with 2 or 4 NVME to have an additional 2x 8TB... definitely not cheap tho.

128GB RAM on a M1 system are without a doubt enough, even on a large template. As said, loading is super fast and you don't have to load everything, and then you're using VEP already. However, I would wait for September or October, just to see what Apple will announce for their new Mac Pro. If you're in the market to drop £10k for a new system, I would say, try to wait a little bit to have all info in hands. I don't believe you really need PCIe anymore, not on a M1 Machine with Thunderbolt; you can run many screens with a M1 GPU, no need for a Nvidia PCIe card... no need for DSP card either, they're things of the past actually (even UA are going native now). So really the main concern is just about CPU and Memory. Apparently M2 chip have 50% more memory (24GB instead of 16GB on the base model). IF the increase is across all models, it would mean a M2 Max would get 96GB instead of 64GB and a M2 Ultra would get 192GB instead of 128GB, and M2 Extreme would be 384GB... theoretically. So that might be a factor for you here, maybe if you're trying to get everything on one computer with no VEP servers.

So bottom line, I would try to wait couple more months to have all info in hands to take the best decision... maybe it will be the same choice, M2 Ultra Mac Studio with 128GB, but at least you know you won't regret it 2 months after your purchase.

On a side note, I'm using a M1 Max MBP with 64GB and 8TB SSD, and I honestly never felt the 64GB limitation yet, because the swap is just too fast to even have any impact so far... maybe if I keep growing my Template... who knows? One sure thing, I absolutely don't regret my purchase, because I can bring my whole studio with me everywhere I go, fully loaded with a bunch of plugins and libraries. And if at some point I feel limited, I will save money and add a Mac Studio Ultra 128GB as a VEP servers to run all large libraries such VSL, EW, Spitfire and run everything else on my internal drive. But as said, I'm not there yet.

I hope it can help...


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## Pier (Aug 24, 2022)

If you can, I'd wait to see what happens with the rumored upcoming ARM Mac Pro. I think that might be a better long term investment although it will probably be more expensive than the Mac Studio.


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## Minsky (Aug 24, 2022)

Wunderhorn said:


> To be honest I would not buy a computer that does not have internal PCI slots and cannot be upgraded with RAM beyond 128.
> 
> If you work full time then a computer is not the thing where cutting corners is smart. It'll be the basis of all your work every working minute. Inconveniences and deficiencies will add up even if they seem small at first. In the long range this is adding up in time which eats away from your productive time.


Totally hear you, my issue is that what you'd be talking about is a new Mac Pro and that may not even be available until next year sometime. Not sure how long I can professionally last on my current set up...but I do hear you..and maybe I just need to. Cheers for your commnts


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## Minsky (Aug 24, 2022)

Pier said:


> If you can, I'd wait to see what happens with the rumored upcoming ARM Mac Pro. I think that might be a better long term investment although it will probably be more expensive than the Mac Studio.


Yes Pier, that's my worry too! lol... but at the end of the day it's my main tool for the job so... yeah.


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## AndrewS (Aug 24, 2022)

Spid said:


> Do you really need to change your audio interface? I mean, you could easily buy a Thunderbolt to Firewire dongle/hub and keep the Apollo 8 FW for now and then invest more on your computer/system...


You can even get around the dongle part and do it natively as part of the hardware (at least for the main interface): https://www.uaudio.com/thunderbolt-3-option-card.html


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## Minsky (Aug 24, 2022)

Spid said:


> @Minsky I have one major question: Do you really need to change your audio interface? I mean, you could easily buy a Thunderbolt to Firewire dongle/hub and keep the Apollo 8 FW for now and then invest more on your computer/system... you could always change your audio interface later if you really think you need to. I don't really believe you need to tho; so you could focus on something else.
> 
> For instance, I would try to get a 4TB internal SSD, because it has been proven that 4TB and 8TB SSD in new M1 Macs are faster than the 1TB and 2TB version. It's not a lot faster, but still they are.
> 
> ...


Thanks for such a detailed and comprehensive response. I'm going to ponder it. I did know about the adapter for the Apollo interface - Yellow Tech mentioned it to me. I might well not get too carried away and put the money where it counts. Seems like much of the current advice is to wait still, for now. I think I probably knew that inwardly... it's probably why I posted here. I think the MBP solution that you are using with a potential pairing with Mac Studio if required is pretty cool. Thanks again.


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## Spid (Aug 24, 2022)

AndrewS said:


> You can even get around the dongle part and do it natively as part of the hardware (at least for the main interface): https://www.uaudio.com/thunderbolt-3-option-card.html


yeah, since I don't have any Apollo, I wasn't sure if this option was available for the first FW Apollo...


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## Minsky (Aug 24, 2022)

AndrewS said:


> You can even get around the dongle part and do it natively as part of the hardware (at least for the main interface): https://www.uaudio.com/thunderbolt-3-option-card.html


Oh! Good to know!


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## Minsky (Aug 24, 2022)

Spid said:


> yeah, since I don't have any Apollo, I wasn't sure this option are available for the first FW Apollo...


After a quick google seems like it is.. which is great!


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## Spid (Aug 24, 2022)

Minsky said:


> After a quick google seems like it is.. which is great!


even better then... so less worries about "changing" audio interface. I don't believe audio converter are really something to focus that much. Anyone with a "decent" audio interface such mid priced interface ($500-1k) have nothing to worry, converters are "good enough" for most project and people. Of course, the FW Apollo is even better, so really no worries... if it ain't broken, no need to fix it


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## samtrino (Aug 24, 2022)

+1 for waiting few months for the rumored AS Mac Pro…

In the meantime, did you consider upgrading your current MP to Monterey using Open Core? I have a 2010 Mac Pro with 2x 3.46Ghz, 128GB RAM, and filled with 6x SSDs running latest Monterey, latest Logic, etc without any issues… This should get you through the wait until you decide what you wanna get…


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## Minsky (Aug 24, 2022)

samtrino said:


> +1 for waiting few months for the rumored AS Mac Pro…
> 
> In the meantime, did you consider upgrading your current MP to Monterey using Open Core? I have a 2010 Mac Pro with 2x 3.46Ghz, 128GB RAM, and filled with 6x SSDs running latest Monterey, latest Logic, etc without any issues… This should get you through the wait until you decide what you wanna get



Hmmm I'm going to look into that tomorrow. Thank you.


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## Jett Hitt (Aug 24, 2022)

You already have the investment in the 5,1. Why not slave it? It will function perfectly well in that capacity. When it is attached to the M1 as a slave, you’ve got loads of RAM and all the M1 power. I’d save myself $2k and get the M1 Max with 64GB of RAM.


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## Spid (Aug 25, 2022)

Hmmm… I fully agree on upgrading the 5,1 and use it later as a VEP slave.

However, I would recommend to get the biggest configuration you can afford, so for a Mac Studio, I would definitely try my best to get the 128GB version. The main reason is because the Mac Studio is not upgradable, so even if 64GB are good enough today, having more CPU/RAM/Storage could help to keep the Mac Studio for a longer period.

I’m guessing that if you have a 5,1, you’re not willing to change system every 2 or 3 years… I get that, I’m the same, I hate to change system, it’s always a LOT of work just to have everything setup correctly, all apps and plugins installed, etc… so I guess you plan to keep the Mac Studio more than just 2 or 3 years, but at least 5-6+ years (if not more, right?). If so, then go for the higher level you can afford so it would help to be future proof. If you plan to change after 3 years, then it doesn’t matter, go for the best bang for the buck version (which is probably the M1 Max 64GB today).

My 2¢


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## mat1 (Aug 25, 2022)

If the new Mac Pro ends up costing 50% more than the equivalent Studio it might not make sense anyway.. 

Sounds like a maxed out Studio will be a massive jump in power/speed


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## Delboy (Aug 25, 2022)

Plus backup backup backup ... cant have enough backup ... NAS etc


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## HCMarkus (Aug 25, 2022)

I moved my studio from a 12 core 5,1 Mac Pro to a Mac studio Ultra and have absolutely no regrets. The new machine simply smokes the cheesegrater.

You can wait for the M2 Mac studio, but it will likely be about a year out. 

You can wait for the AS Mac Pro, but it will cost you an arm and a leg. 

But it is actually this simple: buy a new computer when you actually need it. Not before. Not after.


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## Spid (Aug 25, 2022)

The main reason to wait couple weeks is because we know they will release a new Mac Pro with Apple Silicon (they announced it), and they will have a keynote on September 7th, maybe another one in October, so it might be worth to wait couple weeks just to know where the Mac Pro will stand (in terms of capacities, performances and of course prices).

Maybe it won’t be the good choice, and yet it will reinforce the choice of going for a Mac Studio Ultra with 128GB… but at least the decision won’t lack any info. Because as soon as they release the new Mac Pro, we can guess that they will keep their 18-24mo update cycle and go from M1 to M2, then M2 to M3, etc… but the product line should stay the same with just marginal improvements here and there from with each new chip generation…. Like going from 16GB limit on M1 to 24GB… which could means +50% on M2 Pro/Max/Ultra.

We know the cheesgrater Mac Pro can have 1TB+ RAM, so I guess they will try their best to have a way to have an AS Mac Pro with at least 512GB. A potential M2 Extreme could potentially have 384GB, so maybe the M3 Extreme will get to 512GB… who knows at this point? That’s why I think it might be worth to wait couple weeks so at least we will know better what the AS Mac Pro will exactly be, how expansions will work? Will it be a Mac Studio “Pro”, or a Mini Mac Pro, or a full cheesgrater Mac Pro? We saw many mockups at this point… 

I personally don’t think I will ever be in the market for a Mac Pro because it will very likely be in the $20k+ price range if you want some decent RAM, and the Mac Studio M3 Ultra with 256GB could potentially be the perfect choice in 3 or 4 years when it will be time to add a VEP Server to my system… but until then, wait & see. However, I understand that some of us here might be in the market for a full tower Mac Pro… so it would be bad to spend $10k on a Mac Studio rig and then learn 2 months later that there will be a better choice for them… 

I hope it makes sense


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## mat1 (Aug 25, 2022)

Spid said:


> The main reason to wait couple weeks is because we know they will release a new Mac Pro with Apple Silicon (they announced it), and they will have a keynote on September 7th, maybe another one in October, so it might be worth to wait couple weeks just to know where the Mac Pro will stand (in terms of capacities, performances and of course prices).
> 
> Maybe it won’t be the good choice, and yet it will reinforce the choice of going for a Mac Studio Ultra with 128GB… but at least the decision won’t lack any info. Because as soon as they release the new Mac Pro, we can guess that they will keep their 18-24mo update cycle and go from M1 to M2, then M2 to M3, etc… but the product line should stay the same with just marginal improvements here and there from with each new chip generation…. Like going from 16GB limit on M1 to 24GB… which could means +50% on M2 Pro/Max/Ultra.
> 
> ...


September is phones so it's looking like Oct for other M2 Macs.. I'm predicting 7000 for an Ultra with 128gb ram


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## HCMarkus (Aug 25, 2022)

mat1 said:


> I'm predicting 7000 for an Ultra with 128gb ram


You don't need the upgraded GPU unless you do heavy video editing. Price largely depends whether you go for big internal storage. External is 1/4 to 1/2 as fast, but 1/2 as costly.


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## mat1 (Aug 25, 2022)

HCMarkus said:


> You don't need the upgraded GPU unless you do heavy video editing. Price largely depends whether you go for big internal storage. External is 1/4 to 1/2 as fast, but 1/2 as costly.


Assuming they offer the lower version on the Mac Pro..


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## muziksculp (Aug 26, 2022)

Does native M1 compatibility of plugins, and apps. imply they are M2 compatible ?


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## muziksculp (Aug 26, 2022)

I'm being cautious as I plan to upgrade my Studio PCs during Q4-2022. Most likely with custom made 13th Generation Intel PC desktops. (One Master, and one Slave PC). Meanwhile, Apple's next Gen. Mac Pro M2, Mac Book Pro, and Studio computers might be showing up this fall. So, there will be lots of options, but I will most likely stick to PCs.


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## HCMarkus (Aug 26, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Does native M1 compatibility of plugins, and apps. imply they are M2 compatible ?


Yes. The basic CPU architecture is the same, M1 or M2.


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## Spid (Aug 27, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I'm being cautious as I plan to upgrade my Studio PCs during Q4-2022. Most likely with custom made 13th Generation Intel PC desktops. (One Master, and one Slave PC). Meanwhile, Apple's next Gen. Mac Pro M2, Mac Book Pro, and Studio computers might be showing up this fall. So, there will be lots of options, but I will most likely stick to PCs.


Yes, compatibility with M1, M2, etc… is the same as compatibility between 12th generation Intel, 13th generation, etc… It’s just improved version of the chipset, but the architecture is the same.

I’m a Mac user, but I don’t recommend Macs to anyone. If you’re on PC and you’re happy with it, and then you plan to upgrade, then stick to PCs. No need to change software, to eventually change DAW, etc… These days, it doesn’t matter if we’re on PC or MAC… what matters is the music we do. There are many happy PC users, and frustrated Mac users… while there are also many happy Mac users and frustrated PC users. Both are true; so what really matters is to find a system that we love to use, we’re knowledgeable about it and experienced with it so we can become very efficient and don’t think too much about the technology when we’re trying to be creative.

If we really compare similar system with similar quality and services, Macs and PCs can be priced very close. However, with PCs, we have the option to go on a cheaper way by choosing a cheaper builder, or even by building ourselves… something we can’t do with Apple. However, Apple isn’t that much more expensive when we compare them with a similar brand products that offer the exact same level of components, quality and services.

So in the end of the day: pick your battle and choose wisely what will work for you. Both Mac or PC could be great, like they both could be a pain in the butt when they’re not working like we want them to.

My 2¢


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## Pier (Aug 27, 2022)

Spid said:


> Yes, compatibility with M1, M2, etc… is the same as compatibility between 12th generation Intel, 13th generation, etc… It’s just improved version of the chipset, but the architecture is the same.
> 
> I’m a Mac user, but I don’t recommend Macs to anyone. If you’re on PC and you’re happy with it, and then you plan to upgrade, then stick to PCs. No need to change software, to eventually change DAW, etc… These days, it doesn’t matter if we’re on PC or MAC… what matters is the music we do. There are many happy PC users, and frustrated Mac users… while there are also many happy Mac users and frustrated PC users. Both are true; so what really matters is to find a system that we love to use, we’re knowledgeable about it and experienced with it so we can become very efficient and don’t think too much about the technology when we’re trying to be creative.
> 
> ...


I use both Windows and macOS on a daily basis and for music making there's not much of a difference once you're in the DAW.

Windows will give you more hardware options and flexibility. The audio drivers can be more finicky. It's really a matter of pros and cons, not about one platform being superior.


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## novaburst (Aug 28, 2022)

Even so i am on PC Since Apple have started developing their own processors, the M1 is the way to go,

AMD and intel are still in the ring bashing each other to bits so for the own builds there will be definitely some powerful stuff on the market with DDR5 big footing around its happy dayz for any new builds, also last years CPU are getting cheaper and cheaper so pick your target


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## colony nofi (Aug 29, 2022)

As in a previous thread, I'm going to come out and say - just get the studio now.
Why wait? Being a professional, you need to get the tools you need NOW. If you need to upgrade, you need to upgrade. Any time spent worrying is time not being put into creativity. 

Put it this way. Worse case scenario is a Mac Pro is announced in Sept/Oct and out by end of year. So you can then either cancel your studio order (high end models still can take over a month to deliver) or send it back (if its in the 2 week window) or just sell it for 20% loss. Sure, thats 1000 quid, BUT you get the use of the studio for the time it takes to get your Mac Pro, which is time spent getting used to the M1 platform. You'll find out what you can / can't do on it - and you might even stick with the studio. I'm using a kitted out studio full time for week in week out deliveries... have delivered TV series eps, theatre and tonnes of advertising already on this machine. It does the job well enough. I have issues with it - but as a tool it is getting the job done.

I just don't see the reason to put up with a current situation that is WORSE than what you will have with the studio just for saving 1000 quid - which is also a business right off. Of course that is relative right? And that is then a decision only you can make. Its just the way I personally see it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 29, 2022)

Spid said:


> The main reason to wait couple weeks is because we know they will release a new Mac Pro with Apple Silicon (they announced it), and they will have a keynote on September 7th,



If they do - which I doubt - you can return the Mac Studio within 30 days.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 29, 2022)

colony nofi said:


> So you can then either cancel your studio order (high end models still can take over a month to deliver) or send it back (if its in the 2 week window) or just sell it for 20% loss.



I ordered a refurb on Friday and it arrived on Saturday. If you chat on the Apple Store and keep clicking until you get a person, they can (at least they did for me) find the exact configuration you're looking for even if it's not listed.

To me this is anything but a compromise for not having a $50,000 Mac Pro. It's already more computer than any of us will need, with the possible exception of people doing surround mixes at 96K or something.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 29, 2022)

The stuff about not buying a machine without PCI slots... well, we've already gone through that and my opinion is FEH.

Internal card slots can kiss my ass.


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## Pier (Aug 29, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The stuff about not buying a machine without PCI slots... well, we've already gone through that and my opinion is FEH.
> 
> Internal card slots can kiss my ass.


Honestly I don't mind not having PCI slots but something I like about towers is being able to add internal drives.


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## Spid (Aug 29, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> If they do - which I doubt - you can return the Mac Studio within 30 days.


Yeah, but if they do announce it in October event and not September event, then you’re already out of the 30 days period. That’s why I mentioned to wait…


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## Spid (Aug 29, 2022)

Pier said:


> Honestly I don't mind not having PCI slots but something I like about towers is being able to add internal drives.


Since I’m on a MBP now, even with 8TB it’s still not enough to store everything, so I would need an external enclosure with 4x 8TB NVME, something like that for 32TB (that would be enough):



That would solve the problem and would keep a very low and light profile (if not, maybe an OWC 4M2). After messing with towers, and then Mac Minis, I wouldn’t want a big cheese grater tower anymore… that’s just way too big and too heavy… mainly just to install small NVME sticks anyway.

Now, if they release a smaller form factor like the mockups:






That would be a different story… but then would come to the price tag… the current Mac Pro prices are just too insane for me. Mac Studio are more reasonable… not cheap either tho.


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## Pier (Aug 29, 2022)

Spid said:


> Since I’m on a MBP now, even with 8TB it’s still not enough to store everything, so I would need an external enclosure with 4x 8TB NVME, something like that for 32TB (that would be enough):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah but personally I'd rather just plug an NVME drive straight into the motherboard.

No extra $200 to pay for an enclosure which is an extra component that might fail at some point. No weird USB-C compatibility issues. No cables and no enclosure in the desk.


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## novaburst (Aug 29, 2022)

AMD showing some real performance with new launch,


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## Pier (Aug 29, 2022)

novaburst said:


> AMD showing some real performance with new launch,



Wow


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## Spid (Aug 30, 2022)

Pier said:


> Yeah but personally I'd rather just plug an NVME drive straight into the motherboard.
> 
> No extra $200 to pay for an enclosure which is an extra component that might fail at some point. No weird USB-C compatibility issues. No cables and no enclosure in the desk.


To each his own, I never seen a motherboard with 5 NVME slot, and even if it would exist I would still prefer the external drive so I could easily use it between two computers and always have my whole collection of sounds with me… even when I’m not home. I can’t remember how many times I was at a friend studio and we needed some sounds for a project and I was “damn, I have it at home :(“. 

That’s also why I went with the MBP and don’t want any hardware keyboard… so my whole studio fits in a backpack. Even if I would add a VEP server later on, it would be a Mac Mini/Studio, so it will also fit the backpack. Even for the controller keyboard I’m seeking mobile solution with a small mini keyboard for now, but I might get 3 Roli Lumi to have a mobile 72 keys solution… I also lurking for the ‘piano de voyage’ to get a modular mobile piano solution…









LUMI Keys Studio Edition by ROLI - The illuminated MPE controller with per-key pitchbend and polyphonic aftertouch | ROLI


Light up your sound with the world’s first keyboard controller offering per-key pitchbend and polyphonic aftertouch, plus whole-key illumination that sparks new ideas for playing and composing.



roli.com













Piano de Voyage


Portable digital piano




pianodevoyage.com





But I digress… as said, to each his own, there might be a valid reason for our choices, I don’t doubt you have yours too


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## colony nofi (Aug 30, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I ordered a refurb on Friday and it arrived on Saturday. If you chat on the Apple Store and keep clicking until you get a person, they can (at least they did for me) find the exact configuration you're looking for even if it's not listed.
> 
> To me this is anything but a compromise for not having a $50,000 Mac Pro. It's already more computer than any of us will need, with the possible exception of people doing surround mixes at 96K or something.


Yeah right. I wish wait times were that quick in Australia.... (here's the config I run)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 30, 2022)

colony nofi said:


> Yeah right. I wish wait times were that quick in Australia.... (here's the config I run)



The wait times are the same here, but I bought a refurbished one.

This is the link in the US, may be similar daoun unduh:









Certified Refurbished Products


We test and certify all Apple refurbished products and include a one-year warranty.



www.apple.com





My config: M1 Max, 32-core graphics, 64MB, 4TB.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 30, 2022)

Pier said:


> Honestly I don't mind not having PCI slots but something I like about towers is being able to add internal drives.


Don't we all. But unfortunately that's not the direction things are going at Apple.


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## aeliron (Aug 30, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Internal card slots can kiss my ass.


To be more accurate: we wish they could. But that's just another disappointment.


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## Simon Ravn (Aug 30, 2022)

Spid said:


> @Minsky I have one major question: Do you really need to change your audio interface? I mean, you could easily buy a Thunderbolt to Firewire dongle/hub and keep the Apollo 8 FW for now and then invest more on your computer/system... you could always change your audio interface later if you really think you need to. I don't really believe you need to tho; so you could focus on something else.
> 
> For instance, I would try to get a 4TB internal SSD, because it has been proven that 4TB and 8TB SSD in new M1 Macs are faster than the 1TB and 2TB version. It's not a lot faster, but still they are.
> 
> ...


Hi. Could you do a screengrab of Activity Monitors memory usage when you have your template and a project loaded up? Would be great to see how it looks like, considering how it performs!

This part of activity monitor:


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## Spid (Aug 30, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Hi. Could you do a screengrab of Activity Monitors memory usage when you have your template and a project loaded up? Would be great to see how it looks like, considering how it performs!
> 
> This part of activity monitor:


Ok, bare with me because I'm still building my template (I'm new in that stuff). So I've debated quite a bit between having VEP or not, and between having a Template fully loaded all the time, or activating tracks as I go. I even post some questions here before to make the choice.

After some testing about loading time, my current setup is to have no activated tracks. So here's my current 700+ tracks template:






So as you can see, it doesn't take any memory and the template open in like 2s, it's very fluid and no hiccups. I can scroll amongst my instrument groups (based on a adapted version of General Midi layout spread on 32 groups). So when I want to find a specific sounds, I can just go to the group, expand the folder, scroll amongst libraries and activate the track I want to play and record (with CSS here):






The loading of a single track like that might take 1 or 2 seconds to load on the internal 8TB SSD, so by the time I activate the track, and I press the keys, the sound is there... 

Now if I want to activate the whole Library, I can just activate the whole group and it will load what I need like here (5.68GB in memory) with the Ensemble, V1, V2, Va, Vc and Db loaded






But the good thing is that if finally I change mind and I don't need it and only need the Basses, I can unload from memory with Shift+Click on the Activate button on each track, and it will unload the plugin and samples, so it will reduce down to 2.80GB here:






By doing so, I can load a template very quickly and it's not overloaded. However there are some loading time here and there when I activate tracks, but it's really so fast on the internal SSD that I really don't mind waiting 1 or 2 seconds to load a 1GB patch, maybe 3 seconds for a 2-3GB patch... it's really fast.

It also means that I never reach the 64GB memory limit because I won't activate 400 tracks at once on a single project. 

Is that the best way to do it? I have no freaking idea... I'm testing, I'm trying to break it and trying to figure out the best way I would want to operate... but as said, I'm new about Composing so I'm still discovering new libraries sounds, trying to figure out what I want in my template, etc... so I'm mainly testing now and it's not ready for prime time, I know I can still optimise it, then I will do all audio routing, buses, Effects, Reverbs, etc... I have done nothing but the basics so far, so plenty to do yet... I also want to make custom Icons to be more visually appealing and readable. 

However, I'm not gonna lie, I'm worry that I will hit the 1,000 tracks limit if I include all libraries I want... that's a major concern now and I even wonder if I shouldn't move to Cubase Pro for this reason alone. So as said, work in progress... 

Hopefully the screen show with the Activity monitor will be enough for you to find the info you're looking for. If not, don't hesitate to ask


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 30, 2022)

aeliron said:


> To be more accurate: we wish they could. But that's just another disappointment.


One of many, yes.


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## Spid (Aug 30, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> My config: M1 Max, 32-core graphics, 64MB, 4TB.


You won't go very far with 64*MB*... 
I recommend the 64*GB* version instead 🤣😂🤣


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## HCMarkus (Aug 30, 2022)

Spid said:


> You won't go very far with 64*MB*...
> I recommend the 64*GB* version instead 🤣😂🤣


But, then again, you asked us to "Bare" with you in your prior post... what do you expect?


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## Spid (Aug 30, 2022)

HCMarkus said:


> But, then again, you asked us to "Bare" with you in your prior post... what do you expect?


I was bear foot when I wrote the post...


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## HCMarkus (Aug 30, 2022)

Spid said:


> I was bear foot when I wrote the post...








Real World Speed Tests for Performance Minded Apple Mac Users


real world speed test results for performance minded Apple Macintosh users



barefeats.com





Edit: 
*The prolific BareFeats APPLE Computer & Product Reviewer Robert Arthur 'Rob ART' Morgan passed away on March 12, 2022, 77 years young, at home in Portland, OR.*


RIP Rob Art.


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## aaronventure (Aug 30, 2022)

Minsky said:


> What else should be there?​


Whatever you end up getting, get a Stream Deck XL with it. Probably the most game-changing hardware peripheral for any creative workflow, right after a mouse and a keyboard.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 30, 2022)

Spid said:


> You won't go very far with 64*MB*...
> I recommend the 64*GB* version instead 🤣😂🤣


Too expensive for me.


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## Simon Ravn (Aug 31, 2022)

Spid said:


> Ok, bare with me because I'm still building my template (I'm new in that stuff). So I've debated quite a bit between having VEP or not, and between having a Template fully loaded all the time, or activating tracks as I go. I even post some questions here before to make the choice.
> 
> After some testing about loading time, my current setup is to have no activated tracks. So here's my current 700+ tracks template:
> 
> ...


OK thanks for your time and testing here. But not really what I was looking for. I need all instruments loaded (in VEP), so I was really looking at some hint showing how much you can load into memory on a 64GB machine since some people claim you can load more than 64GB because memory swapping is so fast. I still don't believe that and haven't seen any proof of it, and sadly your situation here doesn't bring us any closer


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## Spid (Aug 31, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> OK thanks for your time and testing here. But not really what I was looking for. I need all instruments loaded (in VEP), so I was really looking at some hint showing how much you can load into memory on a 64GB machine since some people claim you can load more than 64GB because memory swapping is so fast. I still don't believe that and haven't seen any proof of it, and sadly your situation here doesn't bring us any closer


Ok, I see... Well, I just tried to activate my current tracks, but it wasn't enough to go over 64GB (some tracks are place holder for libraries I haven't added yet), so I added a bunch of Kontakt and I could reach 78GB, with some swap:






I checked the loading time if I unload and reload a track and it doesn't seem to impact much the loading time. But that's just an approximation and I haven't measure it scientifically because all that matters to me is that I want to select a track, turn it on and bam I can play and have sound without waiting 10 seconds or more.

I'm not sure if it will answer your question, I couldn't try with VEP because I don't have a personal license anymore; I was using VEP at the studio, but it was the Studio's license... that's also why I was debating between using it or not and if I needed to buy a license or not. For now, I opted for no VEP to simplify my Template since it's my first one, and also because I found the loading time of the new MBP super fast... fast enough for me to not really care about it and therefore not having a need for VEP... at least for now.

I hope it could help


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## Simon Ravn (Aug 31, 2022)

Spid said:


> Ok, I see... Well, I just tried to activate my current tracks, but it wasn't enough to go over 64GB (some tracks are place holder for libraries I haven't added yet), so I added a bunch of Kontakt and I could reach 78GB, with some swap:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually it doesn't have to be with VEP. But if you have those 78GB loaded and play back a track with a ton of stuff going on in many different tracks/instances of Kontakt, so that samples both residing in real memory and in swapped memory will be playing... and if playback works flawlessly when you skip around and record something on top as well etc on other tracks.... That would kinda give an indication. It won't be a 100% test because you really need to make sure that some of the tracks using the swapped memory are playing too and that can be a bit hard to tell. But if you worked on a track like this with 78GB loaded, and you can play, record, compose, do your thing etc. and don't have any clicks/pops or other hickups then I think that would be telling.


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## Spid (Aug 31, 2022)

I'm afraid I can't know what is in swap and what is not... and even if I think the M1 Max is strong, I don't think I could playback 700+ tracks to make sure everything in memory is really playing... and if something wouldn't play and would be silent, I would have no way to know it for sure, unless I spend a lot of time checking, printing tracks to check which one is silent, etc... and unfortunately I don't have time for that. As said, I'm not really plan to work that way, I actually don't see much need anymore (I'm not jumping from cue to cue here so I don't need to keep a whole template fully loaded all the time).

To be frank, at first I thought I would need to add a Mac Studio as a VEP server, thinking that the MBP wouldn't be powerful enough, but after seeing how fast it loads each individual tracks, I think I might not even need a VEP server in the end. My only concern now is with Logic and its 1,000 tracks limit...


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## Minsky (Sep 1, 2022)

aaronventure said:


> Whatever you end up getting, get a Stream Deck XL with it. Probably the most game-changing hardware peripheral for any creative workflow, right after a mouse and a keyboard.


This looks pretty amazing. I'll def take a closer look, thanks.


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## John Zuker (Sep 6, 2022)

Spid said:


> To be frank, at first I thought I would need to add a Mac Studio as a VEP server, thinking that the MBP wouldn't be powerful enough, but after seeing how fast it loads each individual tracks, I think I might not even need a VEP server in the end. My only concern now is with Logic and its 1,000 tracks limit...


The question I have is whether or not an M1 optimized VEP (if and when) will still handle a large template more efficiently than Logic does, even with the newest, besest, fastest Mac. It would be nice if it wasn't necessary.


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## Spid (Sep 6, 2022)

John Zuker said:


> The question I have is whether or not an M1 optimized VEP (if and when) will still handle a large template more efficiently than Logic does, even with the newest, besest, fastest Mac. It would be nice if it wasn't necessary.


I guess it mainly depend what you prefer... I think not having VEP makes it simpler to use and pretty light by just activating the tracks as you go and need... at least that's what works for me... for now


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## John Lehmkuhl (Sep 6, 2022)

I have been using a 2x6Core i7 MacPro Tower for many many years and just got a Mac Studio - I actually bought just the base model (32GB RAM/ 512GB SSD) and I'm pretty blown away with how it works. Our "memory" issue is not really an issue with these newer computer where they can throw around huge GB of data to HDs and back at blazing fast speeds. 

One thing to think about is you have a full 14 days to work with any new Apple computer and can return it if it isn't working out for you. I was fully prepared to do this but I don't see the reason for the work I do making sound libraries and demo songs etc. I've had this computer working as hard as my MacPro Tower and it's doing everything (without needing to bounce anything) and still has tons of power left - all without any fan noise to be heard. I'm in heaven.


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## Spid (Sep 6, 2022)

exactly @John Lehmkuhl -- and you have the base model and it's already a beast, so imagine how crazy it could get with a 128GB M1 Ultra with 4TB SSD. The 4TB and 8TB have a slightly higher SSD speed from the 512GB/1TB and 2TB models. It's marginal tho.

I don't recall the exact numbers, but the impression I get from those M1 Max and Ultra is that they have a SSD speed as fast as our old RAM on our i5 computers. So we can pretty much make huge files and have plenty of swap and it will be just as fast it was before when we had everything in RAM... 

So I can't imagine the beast we might see with the M2 Extreme Mac Pro version... if we can ever afford it with the coming recession, but that's another story.


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## John Zuker (Sep 6, 2022)

Spid said:


> I guess it mainly depend what you prefer... I think not having VEP makes it simpler to use and pretty light by just activating the tracks as you go and need... at least that's what works for me... for now


That seems like a smart way to go. If I dive into the M1 pool, I’ll give that approach a try.


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## Nachivnik (Sep 10, 2022)

John Lehmkuhl said:


> I have been using a 2x6Core i7 MacPro Tower for many many years and just got a Mac Studio - I actually bought just the base model (32GB RAM/ 512GB SSD) and I'm pretty blown away with how it works. Our "memory" issue is not really an issue with these newer computer where they can throw around huge GB of data to HDs and back at blazing fast speeds.
> 
> One thing to think about is you have a full 14 days to work with any new Apple computer and can return it if it isn't working out for you. I was fully prepared to do this but I don't see the reason for the work I do making sound libraries and demo songs etc. I've had this computer working as hard as my MacPro Tower and it's doing everything (without needing to bounce anything) and still has tons of power left - all without any fan noise to be heard. I'm in heaven.


I am imagining with your work, you have a lot of samples and various apps in active use. I imagine you could probably be using samples in ways that cause them to be in active use in multiple apps, possibly expanding the actively-needed memory space. And you are not finding 32GB limiting? Do you see moments where you might find 64GB would deliver your results more quickly, or have you not yet experienced too-little-RAM delays (waiting for data to swap from the SSD into RAM)?

Thanks!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 11, 2022)

John Lehmkuhl said:


> I have been using a 2x6Core i7 MacPro Tower for many many years and just got a Mac Studio - I actually bought just the base model (32GB RAM/ 512GB SSD) and I'm pretty blown away with how it works. Our "memory" issue is not really an issue with these newer computer where they can throw around huge GB of data to HDs and back at blazing fast speeds.




I haven't tested how virtual memory works when you max out the RAM (and it won't be easy to do, since I have 64GB), but I know someone with the base model who did. It worked fine on his machine, but there wasn't a lot going on.

My hunch is that it would start to gag with busy arrangements and multiple mic positions going. And if like me you have more than one thing open at a time... suffice it to say that I don't regret going up to 64GB just to eliminate that as a potential bottleneck. But that doesn't mean everyone needs to.

I also don't regret spending way too much money for 4TB of storage.


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## HCMarkus (Sep 11, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I also don't regret spending way too much money for 4TB of storage.


I just spent way too much money getting the Ultra  But, still no regrets. Working like a charm!

Hope you're having fun with the new Mac, Nick.


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