# Synchron Strings Pro



## Markrs

Just saw the YouTube videos for this. Probably out of my price range but very interested to hear other peoples thoughts on it






SYNCHRON STRINGS PRO - Vienna Symphonic Library


Synchron Strings Pro represents the next generation of sampled string ensembles, fusing artistic expression, a wealth of detailed articulations, natural note transitions and sonic excellence within a resource-friendly, easy-to-use product.




www.vsl.co.at


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## doctoremmet

Paging @jaketanner @Stephen Limbaugh

Edit: paging @JEPA Jorge, you making new demos for this one?


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## holywilly

No discounted price for Synchron Strings I users? Damn!


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## Zanshin

holywilly said:


> No discounted price for Synchron Strings I users? Damn!



Hopefully this is a mistake that will be rectified... There should loyalty/crossgrade discounts...


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## Markrs

holywilly said:


> No discounted price for Synchron Strings I users? Damn!


The introduction video mentions a special price for synchron Strings I owners


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## wcreed51

*CROSSGRADE from Synchron Strings I:150 € / 270 €* (Standard / Full Library) 

But doesn't show up on the order page yet


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## ProfoundSilence

Hmm. 

Something about it still sounds stiff and midi to me? It's the same quality I hear in some of the chris hein stuff... it's like the intonation has been pitch corrected or something, I know the player has intonation randomization - but it's hard to describe


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## Zanshin

wcreed51 said:


> *CROSSGRADE from Synchron Strings I:150 € / 270 €* (Standard / Full Library)
> 
> But doesn't show up on the order page yet



I'll put my pitchfork away...


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## holywilly

wcreed51 said:


> *CROSSGRADE from Synchron Strings I:150 € / 270 €* (Standard / Full Library)
> 
> But doesn't show up on the order page yet


Awesome! That crossgrade price seems right! Instant buy!


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## Markrs

Is this an upgrade from synchron Strings I? I had a look and couldn't find an answer and synchron Strings I has more sampled content and is a higher price even with a discount to co-inside with this release


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## method1

The upgrade price is working now.


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## ProfoundSilence

Markrs said:


> Is this an upgrade from synchron Strings I? I had a look and couldn't find an answer and synchron Strings I has more sampled content and is a higher price even with a discount to co-inside with this release


I can't figure out if this is just samples from synchron strings or something new.


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## Markrs

ProfoundSilence said:


> I can't figure out if this is just samples from synchron strings or something new.






> Synchron Strings Pro includes a few articulations from Synchron Strings I (*staccatos, legatos senza and molto vibrato, long notes, flautandos*, etc.), but most articulations are new recordings.



Those is a quote from the product page for synchron Strings Pro


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## John R Wilson

ProfoundSilence said:


> I can't figure out if this is just samples from synchron strings or something new.



I think its new recordings, with some articulations / recordings taken from Synchron Strings 1. I'm not sure if that is the case though. It could be useful to have some confirmation from VSL if that's the case and if so whats new recordings and whats taken from Synchron Strings 1?


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## Jackdnp121

holywilly said:


> No discounted price for Synchron Strings I users? Damn!


yes they do my friend


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## jamwerks

Man, VSL is totally kicking ass now!! And that's an insanely low price. Credit card out...


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## Ben

Here is the announcement thread: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/new-vienna-synchron-strings-pro.98808/#post-4646072


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## John R Wilson

jamwerks said:


> Man, VSL is totally kicking ass now!! And that's an insanely low price. Credit card out...



It does look brilliant!! Think I'll be getting this.


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## Piotrek K.

I'm lost, it looks and sounds like more comprehensive library than Synchron Strings 1. But PRO suggest it contains SS1 and more. Which is not true. And it costs less than SS1. VSL, what the hell? 

But my biggest issue is that I like the sound of those... again xD


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## Zanshin

I'm getting it for sure, just have decide between standard and full. With Synchron Strings I and my current reverb setup (7th Heaven Pro) I mostly use the close and mid mics. The extra mics might be nice for the future though...


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## Frederick

I think I may get this, but I need confirmaton that Strings I is not holding basic stuff that you'll end up missing if you just get the Pro. I'm interested to try out Pro to see what kind of results you can get with their new approach. I already have enough string libraries similar to Strings I, so that one is not very appealing to me.

Still, with Strings I for 445 and Pro for 145 it's "only" double the price of just getting Pro.

I also would like to find out if the full version of Strings I is a huge improvement over the standard version. I don't need surround mixing, but I do like to get a good taste of the room sound.

Edit: Normally I would buy the full version, but here it seems it's just double the mic positions/mixes and 4 is quite decent already.


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## novaburst

Markrs said:


> Just saw the YouTube videos for this. Probably out of my price range but very interested to hear other peoples thoughts on it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYNCHRON STRINGS PRO - Vienna Symphonic Library
> 
> 
> Synchron Strings Pro represents the next generation of sampled string ensembles, fusing artistic expression, a wealth of detailed articulations, natural note transitions and sonic excellence within a resource-friendly, easy-to-use product.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vsl.co.at




That really sounded nice, if it sounds like that in the Synchron player I think that is big big step, 

I am looking for word to another 20. 000 page thread

But that was some very nice recordings 

Got me stirred up


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## method1

The extra mics in Synchron series are totally worth it, I'll unfortunately not be able to just buy "standard" editions anymore after demoing the full versions


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## Frederick

method1 said:


> The extra mics in Synchron series are totally worth it, I'll unfortunately not be able to just buy "standard" editions anymore after demoing the full versions



Okay, you've convinced me: The full Pro version it's going to be.


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## method1

Frederick said:


> Okay, you've convinced me: The full Pro version it's going to be.



The Surrounds & High Stereo are lovely!


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## Paul Jelfs

Is the only difference between Standard and Full the extra Mic positions ? Or are there alot of other differences - cant find a definitive answer.


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## holywilly

Paul Jelfs said:


> Is the only difference between Standard and Full the extra Mic positions ? Or are there alot of other differences - cant find a definitive answer.


Only the mic positions.


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## Beans

Ah, crap. Like, seriously, damn. I need some major Holly O'Pus and Infinite Strings information before this intro price is up.

I've been close to buying Synchron Strings 1 several times, partially because of how much I like Synchron Player. But, even from an "I'll gladly spend a lot of money on this hobby" perspective, I don't need three new strings libraries. Or one, for that matter.

EDIT: I'm so mad.


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## doctoremmet

Beans said:


> Ah, crap. Like, seriously, damn. I need some major Holly O'Pus and Infinite Strings information before this intro price is up.


Thanks for describing 90% of my current brain melt processes...


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## Markrs

Beans said:


> Ah, crap. Like, seriously, damn. I need some major Holly O'Pus and Infinite Strings information before this intro price is up.
> 
> I've been close to buying Synchron Strings 1 several times, partially because of how much I like Synchron Player. But, even from an "I'll gladly spend a lot of money on this hobby" perspective, I don't need three new strings libraries. Or one, for that matter.
> 
> EDIT: I'm so mad.


These are all the things I am considering as well. Really interested in the infinite series of libraries but want limit how much I get


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## Beans

Ben has a great post here:




__





VSL Synchron Strings Pro


It is a standalone product - yes. It seems like a combination of the two. I'd call it a supplemental library that offers some things the other does not, but which can stand on its own too.




vi-control.net





Remember, that's the Commercial Announcements board, so more freeform conversation or competitor comparisons come back to Sample Talk.

This link is quite helpful. From 8 velocity layers in some cases for SS1, to 2 for SSPro. Interesting! VSL's editing and QA is usually top notch, so I'm sure they put a lot of thought into it.





SYNCHRON Strings Pro | VSL - Instruments







www.vsl.info


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## Piotrek K.

Beans said:


> From 8 velocity layers in some cases for SS1, to 2 for SSPro. Interesting!



Interesting indeed! But they list pianissimo as a separate articulation which is... not standard I guess. So adding those pianissimo patches we have 3 layers on longs and legatos?

Listening to demos right now and Guy Bacos ones are great! The rest... mixed? Flight of Black Dragon has some qualities that I'm not a fan (at 1:30, 2:15 onwards)...


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## doctoremmet

Piotrek K. said:


> Interesting indeed! But they list pianissimo as a separate articulation which is... not standard I guess. So adding those pianissimo patches we have 3 layers on longs and legatos?
> 
> Listening to demos right now and Guy Bacos ones are great! The rest... mixed? Flight of Black Dragon has some qualities that I'm not a fan (at 1:30, 2:15 onwards)...


Please... point me to the sucky bits...


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## jaketanner

holywilly said:


> No discounted price for Synchron Strings I users? Damn!


It is..it's about $150 less than the intro price.


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## jaketanner

doctoremmet said:


> Paging @jaketanner @Stephen Limbaugh
> 
> Edit: paging @JEPA Jorge, you making new demos for this one?


I have been trying to sell my SY 1 for over oa month now...good thing no one bought it.. LOL I am definitely upgrading now.


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## doctoremmet

jaketanner said:


> I have been trying to sell my SY 1 for over oa month now...good thing no one bought it.. LOL I am definitely upgrading now.


THIS was totally what I was sort of aiming for... Jake is BACK baby!


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## Beans

jaketanner said:


> I have been trying to sell my SY 1 for over oa month now...good thing no one bought it.. LOL I am definitely upgrading now.



At the same time, I'm glad I didn't jump on your sale! My storage drives are hurting real bad.


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## doctoremmet

Beans said:


> At the same time, I'm glad I didn't jump on your sale! My storage drives are hurting real bad.


There’s a Dutch saying... 2 vliegen in één klap...


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## Markrs

Beans said:


> At the same time, I'm glad I didn't jump on your sale! My storage drives are hurting real bad.


Me too, I need another 2TB NVMe drive, plus probably a 5TB 72,000rpm hard drive


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## Piotrek K.

doctoremmet said:


> Please... point me to the sucky bits...



Not sucky, just not a fan. This run at 1:32 sounds... odd? But I do not write runs like that so maybe not an issue.

Don't get me wrong, I dig SSP sound very much. But I ignored a lot of red flags in demos of SS1 and was really dissapointed. I can't let that happen again with Synchron library. But very curious about what users will have to say in few weeks


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## doctoremmet

Piotrek K. said:


> Not sucky, just not a fan. This run at 1:32 sounds... odd? But I do not write runs like that so maybe not an issue.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I dig SSP sound very much. But I ignored a lot of red flags in demos of SS1 and was really dissapointed. I can't let that happen again with Synchron library. But very curious about what users will have to say in few weeks


I sort of meant it jokingly, in a futile attempt to avert GAS... but alas... all my base are belong to @Ben now...


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## Ben

Piotrek K. said:


> Don't get me wrong, I dig SSP sound very much. But I ignored a lot of red flags in demos of SS1 and was really dissapointed.


You can return the library within 14 days, in case you don't like it


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## Piotrek K.

Ben said:


> You can return the library within 14 days, in case you don't like it



Stop teasing me and enjoy Alps (100% honestly )


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## jaketanner

doctoremmet said:


> THIS was totally what I was sort of aiming for... Jake is BACK baby!


Well...LOL I do need to do some digging to see what exactly we are getting with pro...they make a big deal about flautando, but that art is already in SY 1...unless it's now a flautando legato? So little things like this is what I need to see. I don't think there is portamento in SY 1...so that's good, and also if they replaced the "fake" articulations like Marcato with recorded Marcato. I need to see if there is a comparison chart...Audiobro has it so perfect...a color coded chart that tells you exactly what you get with each version.


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## John Longley

holywilly said:


> Only the mic positions.


Sorry if I'm slow, but what mic positions are included with Pro Standard ? On my phone so might have missed it.


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## jaketanner

John Longley said:


> Sorry if I'm slow, but what mic positions are included with Pro Standard ? On my phone so might have missed it.


Close, Mid and two Decca...one stereo and one mono


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## Ben

John Longley said:


> Sorry if I'm slow, but what mic positions are included with Pro Standard ? On my phone so might have missed it.


Here a link also including a nice venue map 





SYNCHRON Strings Pro | VSL - Instruments







www.vsl.info


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## ngineer

jaketanner said:


> I have been trying to sell my SY 1 for over oa month now...good thing no one bought it.. LOL I am definitely upgrading now.


I was just thinking about your sale listing after I saw this announcement!
Oh well, enjoy!


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## jaketanner

John Longley said:


> Sorry if I'm slow, but what mic positions are included with Pro Standard ? On my phone so might have missed it.


If you are using other VSL libraries, the 4 that come with the strings are good...because strings are generally the first in the orchestra...the other mics, back of the room, high balcony or whatever are good for winds and brass to set them back. That's the way I see it.


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## holywilly

John Longley said:


> Sorry if I'm slow, but what mic positions are included with Pro Standard ? On my phone so might have missed it.


Close, main, mid-c, mid L-R


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## jaketanner

ngineer said:


> I was just thinking about your sale listing after I saw this announcement!
> Oh well, enjoy!


Well gonna leave it up until I get further details about the addition. The price has me confused...it's PRO yet less than SY 1...and comes with everything SY 1 has and more? Unless this is in addition to?


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## John Longley

jaketanner said:


> Close, Mid and two Decca...one stereo and one mono


This is very odd. A reasonable number of mics and a very solid articulation list for that price.... Something seems too good to be true for VSL  I wish they would state how many dynamic layers they cut from Sy1.


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## jaketanner

John Longley said:


> This is very odd. A reasonable number of mics and a very solid articulation list for that price.... Something seems too good to be true for VSL  I wish they would state how many dynamic layers they cut from Sy1.


This is my fear...is it an addition to SY 1, or a stand alone scaled down version...things like this need to be a bit clearer I think...


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## Ben

John Longley said:


> I wish they would state how many dynamic layers they cut from Sy1.








SYNCHRON Strings Pro | VSL - Instruments







www.vsl.info


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## ngineer

jaketanner said:


> This is my fear...is it an addition to SY 1, or a stand alone scaled down version...things like this need to be a bit clearer I think...


In the announcement thread, I thought Ben’s reply was helpful.






VSL Synchron Strings Pro


VSL did go from 8 to 2 velocity layers for the long notes, I hope it's enough. I see there are 4 layers for tremolo articulations, which sounds just about right to me. Why the different amount? Are the sforzato articulations new recordings? @Ben




vi-control.net





8 velocity layers down to 2 here.

EDIT: Ben for the win with the ninja post above mine.


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## Ben

ngineer said:


> 8 dynamic layers down to 2 here, I noted somewhere else.


Depends on the articulation. The shorts still have many velocity layers.
But keep in mind, these libraries were recorded with a different approach. We have poured everything we have learned from the highly successful Big Bang Orchestra Series into the recordings of Synchron Strings Pro, with a focus on playability and an economic footprint, while establishing musical possibilities that simply were not available before. So a number to number comparison is not really representative. Trust your ears


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## jaketanner

Ben said:


> Depends on the articulation. The shorts still have many velocity layers.
> But keep in mind, these libraries were recorded with a different approach. We have poured everything we have learned from the highly successful Big Bang Orchestra Series into the recordings of Synchron Strings Pro, with a focus on playability and an economic footprint, while establishing musical possibilities that simply were not available before. So a number to number comparison is not really representative. Trust your ears


I am still confused here...my apologies. So with Pro...you get all of SY 1, and then some...but with less dynamics across the board? So if I upgrade to Pro, or "add" pro, and I use the legato patches from Pro instead, I am now losing dynamics is this correct? But gaining better playability? Also, how has the flautando changed from SY 1 to pro?

We need a chart laying it all out.


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## Sovereign

Could you clarify Ben, which dynamics were actually recorded for those patches with only two layers?


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## awaey

What is difference between Standard articulation and full ? I cannot see on Sample content ..where I can find ?


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## method1

All of this information is available on the VSL site.. for some reason VSL announcements seem to bring out the confusion...


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## wcreed51

The difference between standard and full is the number of mic positions.


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## awaey

wcreed51 said:


> The difference between standard and full is the number of mic positions.
> [/QUO
> Thank you for reply


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## Beans

method1 said:


> All of this information is available on the VSL site.. for some reason VSL announcements seem to bring out the confusion...



Yeah, this is the magic link: https://www.vsl.info/en/instruments/synchron/strings-pro


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## José Herring

SYNCHRON Strings Pro | VSL - Instruments







www.vsl.info





A little concerning the lack of velocity layers.

Some of SSP sounds incredible. Some of it sounds as synthetic as the old Roland JV880 synths string patches. Dynamics are really restrained in the Barber Adagio demo making it sound as bland as hell. In another demo the jump from the lower layer to the higher layer stuck out like crazy.

The shorts and the fast legato sound incredible.

The price is good though, but I can't understand the 2 velocity layers for the legato and the sustain patches. Any chance of an add on in the future? Or is this an add on production to Strings I?


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## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> Any chance of an add on in the future? Or is this an add on production to Strings I?


It appears that the Strings I is sort of the “add on” for those who want more velocity layers...


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## Markrs

Guy michelmore is reviewing this right now! Though he is also chatting about other stuff as well


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## Zedcars

Vibrato slightly strange in places. Listen to the Violins in Adagio for Strings. For the most part it sounds fantastic, then all of a sudden the vibrato gets dialled up and it sounds a bit off, almost like an LFO. I can't quite place it. Can only hear it on headphones if I concentrate on the left channel.


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## Ben

jaketanner said:


> I am still confused here...my apologies. So with Pro...you get all of SY 1,


No, Pro is based on new recordings. Only a few articulations from Synchron String I were added.



Sovereign said:


> Could you clarify Ben, which dynamics were actually recorded for those patches with only two layers?


I'm not 100% sure, but if I remember correctly pp - ff



nawzadhaji said:


> What is difference between Standard articulation and full ? I cannot see on Sample content ..where I can find ?


No difference in articulations, only included mics.


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## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> It appears that the Strings I is sort of the “add on” for those who want more velocity layers...


Makes sense. Together they make a killer package.


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## Beans

doctoremmet said:


> It appears that the Strings I is sort of the “add on” for those who want more velocity layers...



More velocity layers *and *a few unique patches (like the cantabile set). But yes, it does feel like SS1 is the add-on, not the other way around.

Synchron Strings Pro and Synchron Strings Expansion 1: Deeper Sampling (up to 4x) for Some Patches and Additional Techniques (is that too long of a rename?).

EDIT: I'm going to start calling this new one Synchron Strings: Origins. It will need a movie-style trailer. Since I haven't yet purchased Pro Origins, I'll have to use Jaeger. Or Phoenix Orchestra, since I'm staring at the sidebar ad right now and need to do more than muck around with it.


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## doctoremmet

@Beans We figured it out! For fun I configured a fun Synchron cart, and it appears I will need €990. And THEN I will finally be able to make music without EVER having to buy anything again!


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## doctoremmet

Beans said:


> I'm going to start calling this new one Synchron Strings: Origins


It’s hip to spell that orig!ns, oh wait...


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## Sovereign

Beans said:


> Yeah, this is the magic link: https://www.vsl.info/en/instruments/synchron/strings-pro


Little information there about which dynamics were actually recorded for each patch, other than those with the dynamic in the patch name.


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## Sovereign

Ben said:


> I'm not 100% sure, but if I remember correctly pp - ff


So the legatos fade between pp and ff? That would seem strange.


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## method1

RE: the velocity layers, check walkthrough video part 3.


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## Beans

Sovereign said:


> Little information there about which dynamics were actually recorded for each patch, other than those with the dynamic in the patch name.



Some people are asking which mics are in Standard vs Full, despite the clear information in two places. It doesn't answer everything, no. But there was a flurry of people not reading the information that _is_ there, drowning out legitimate questions on things that had not yet been answered.


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## EricBarndollar

Sovereign said:


> So the legatos fade between pp and ff? That would seem strange.



Remember that one library's "ff" might be another's f or mf. As method1 recommended, listen to the 3rd walkthrough video that demonstrates the velocity crossfade:




__





SYNCHRON STRINGS PRO - Vienna Symphonic Library


Synchron Strings Pro represents the next generation of sampled string ensembles, fusing artistic expression, a wealth of detailed articulations, natural note transitions and sonic excellence within a resource-friendly, easy-to-use product.




www.vsl.co.at





The ff layer sounds like it has some nice intensity, but it's definitely not over the top fff, and the transition to the p layer still sounds pretty smooth.

So it looks like there is one 2-layer patch that uses Vel XF to go between "ff" and "p", and then there's a separate "pp" patch that you can crossfade to using the Slot XF.


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## Lee Blaske

The upgrade price was very reasonable, so of course I bought it. Looking forward to getting it installed. The ability to play nimbly is really important. VSL certainly knows how to assemble a sample library. It's pretty amazing how the price of flagship products have come down over the years.


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## Beans

Hmm.. If I buy Standard, then that's budget left for Holly or Infinite. But Guy Michelmore keeps gushing over those extra stupid mics like a big jerk, and the intro price will be better than a future upgrade price. 

I hate you all.


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## gaskell

I can't see ANY con sordino articulations! Which strikes me as crazy for a library that calls itself "pro"


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## Lee Blaske

BTW, I really liked the sound quality of the library in the examples on Paul's videos as opposed to the audio demo files.


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## RonOrchComp

Markrs said:


>




Ok, raise your hand if you think the girl at :24 is really cute!


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## Markrs

Beans said:


> Hmm.. If I buy Standard, then that's budget left for Holly or Infinite. But Guy Michelmore keeps gushing over those extra stupid mics like a big jerk, and the intro price will be better than a future upgrade price.
> 
> I hate you all.


Worse for us beginners as we damn well know we shouldn't be going anywhere near this stuff for probably a year or 2 as there is no way I can take full advantage of it. Yet here I am thinking that it sounds really nice and quite reasonably priced!


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## thomasjdev

Beans said:


> Hmm.. If I buy Standard, then that's budget left for Holly or Infinite. But Guy Michelmore keeps gushing over those extra stupid mics like a big jerk, and the intro price will be better than a future upgrade price.
> 
> I hate you all.


But you could buy standard now and get some great use out of it knowing that in a year or so they would most likely run a promo that would discount the upgrade to full.


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## doctoremmet

Beans said:


> Hmm.. If I buy Standard, then that's budget left for Holly or Infinite. But Guy Michelmore keeps gushing over those extra stupid mics like a big jerk, and the intro price will be better than a future upgrade price.
> 
> I hate you all.


I am going to put on that brilliant debut single of LCD Soundsystem. “Losing my edge”. And listen to the lyrics for inspiration...


_I hear you're buying a synthesizer and an arpeggiator and are throwing your computer out the window because you want to make something real. You want to make a Yaz record.

I hear that you and your band have sold your guitars and bought turntables

I hear that you and your band have sold your turntables and bought guitars

I hear everybody that you know is more relevant than everybody that I know.

But have you seen my records? This Heat, Pere Ubu, Outsiders, Nation of Ulysses, Mars, The Trojans, The Black Dice, Todd Terry, the Germs, Section 25, Althea and Donna, Sexual Harrassment, a-ha, Pere Ubu, Dorothy Ashby, PIL, the Fania All-Stars, the Bar-Kays, the Human League, the Normal, Lou Reed, Scott Walker, Monks, Niagra,

Joy Division, Lower 48, the Association, Sun Ra,
Scientists, Royal Trux, 10cc,

Eric B. and Rakim, Index, Basic Channel, Soulsonic Force ("just hit me"!), Juan Atkins, David Axelrod, Electric Prunes, Gil! Scott! Heron!, the Slits, Faust, Mantronix, Pharaoh Sanders and the Fire Engines, the Swans, the Soft Cell, the Sonics, the Sonics, the Sonics, the Sonics.

You don't know what you really want_

**) I hear that you an your band have sold your string sample libraries and have bought a Proteus2000- because you want something that is not expandable by a brand that is out of business and will never release another product*


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## Beans

thomasjdev said:


> But you could buy standard now and get some great use out of it knowing that in a year or so they would most likely run a promo that would discount the upgrade to full.



I mean, let's be honest. I'm a hobbyist, and the vast majority of my limited, former professional work mostly needed a piano, a string ensemble (or even pads), and some sharp brass. It didn't even need to sound "real," because our customers thought it was super cool to go "hybrid" (example: your school's fight song done trailer style).

I'll likely split the difference between no-buy and Full, by purchasing Standard as a new toy. My idiot neighbor just spent a week agonizing over a $1500 umbrella for his back yard, so I think I owe this to myself.


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## method1

Beans said:


> Hmm.. If I buy Standard, then that's budget left for Holly or Infinite. But Guy Michelmore keeps gushing over those extra stupid mics like a big jerk, and the intro price will be better than a future upgrade price.
> 
> I hate you all.



If it helps, just think of "full" as a $1500 umbrella of microphones.


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## John Longley

doctoremmet said:


> It appears that the Strings I is sort of the “add on” for those who want more velocity layers...





doctoremmet said:


> I am going to put on that brilliant debut single of LCD Soundsystem. “Losing my edge”. And listen to the lyrics for inspiration...
> 
> 
> _I hear you're buying a synthesizer and an arpeggiator and are throwing your computer out the window because you want to make something real. You want to make a Yaz record.
> 
> I hear that you and your band have sold your guitars and bought turntables
> 
> I hear that you and your band have sold your turntables and bought guitars
> 
> I hear everybody that you know is more relevant than everybody that I know.
> 
> But have you seen my records? This Heat, Pere Ubu, Outsiders, Nation of Ulysses, Mars, The Trojans, The Black Dice, Todd Terry, the Germs, Section 25, Althea and Donna, Sexual Harrassment, a-ha, Pere Ubu, Dorothy Ashby, PIL, the Fania All-Stars, the Bar-Kays, the Human League, the Normal, Lou Reed, Scott Walker, Monks, Niagra,
> 
> Joy Division, Lower 48, the Association, Sun Ra,
> Scientists, Royal Trux, 10cc,
> 
> Eric B. and Rakim, Index, Basic Channel, Soulsonic Force ("just hit me"!), Juan Atkins, David Axelrod, Electric Prunes, Gil! Scott! Heron!, the Slits, Faust, Mantronix, Pharaoh Sanders and the Fire Engines, the Swans, the Soft Cell, the Sonics, the Sonics, the Sonics, the Sonics.
> 
> You don't know what you really want_
> 
> **) I hear that you an your band have sold your string sample libraries and have bought a Proteus2000- because you want something that is not expandable by a brand that is out of business and will never release another product*


I was there in 2019
I was there at the first release of Synchron Strings
I'm losing my edge.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

I much prefer the sound of CSS and CS2, I must admit.


----------



## doctoremmet

I’m losing my edge
to kids who have larger SSDs than I do

But I was there...
When CSW, Century Strings 2.0, Infinite Strings, HOOPUS and Synchron Pro all dropped in the same week
And Paypal was accidentally denial-of-service attacked
by a bunch of composers


----------



## doctoremmet

hbjdk said:


> I much prefer the sound of Cinematic Strings and CS2, I must admit.


I hear that you and your band are ditching VSL
and are buying Cinematic Strings
because you like your strings Australian


----------



## chapbot

jaketanner said:


> I have been trying to sell my SY 1 for over oa month now...good thing no one bought it.. LOL I am definitely upgrading now.


Let me know how dry it can get !


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

doctoremmet said:


> I hear that you and your band are ditching VSL
> and are buying Cinematic Strings
> because you like your strings Australian


I actually sold the Symphonic Cube a while back, so the first part is true!


----------



## doctoremmet

To all people in this thread, you girls and boys rock! I have had a very nice evening. Thanks!


----------



## SomeGuy

gaskell said:


> I can't see ANY con sordino articulations! Which strikes me as crazy for a library that calls itself "pro"


VSL has always made con sordino separate libraries in the past, so I would imagine a synchron strings 2 that is just con sordino will eventually be available.


----------



## star.keys

This library does not sound good to my ears. There is something very off (synthetic) about the overall tone and the legato doesn‘t sound right as well. I own nearly every strings library on the planet and there is absolutely no way the Synchron Strings Pro stands a chance in the top 10 in my arsenal.

By the way, in case anyone wants to buy Syn Strings 1, just feel free to make an offer. I’ve been trying to get rid of it since years but no luck.


----------



## method1

Nooooo.. I really should have bought the full internet package with the extra mics on the fibre cable!


----------



## doctoremmet

star.keys said:


> By the way, in case anyone wants to buy Syn Strings 1, just feel free to make an offer. I’ve been trying to get rid of it since years but no luck.


I hear it sounds horrible and you and your band are selling it
To kids whose footsteps you hear from behind
For $100


----------



## SomeGuy

On a related side note, I always feel like I’m messing up with my VSL purchases. I purchased Synchron Strings I on pre-release but now seeing Synchron Strings Pro feel it would have been a better choice and is less expensive. Same thing happened with Synchron Percussion, where had I known the BBO versions were coming, would have just picked up those for less $$$. Same with the 1st BBO release, which I purchased because I really liked the powerful brass, only to find out that they would later release a BBO of just the brass! I know its impossible to know what’s coming, and it seems VSL is actually listening to user feedback when making new products which is great, but it does make me wonder if I should stop participating on pre-releases / intro discounts, wait a few years for VSL to incorporate user feedback, and then just pick those products. Probably would save me $$ in the long run.

This is especially true for the BBO and SE products as there doesn’t seem to be any discount when going from synchron libraries to BBO or SE versions, even when parts of the packages share the same samples? (For example going from Synchron Timpani to BBO Phoenix)


----------



## RSK

star.keys said:


> This library does not sound good to my ears. There is something very off (synthetic) about the overall tone and the legato doesn‘t sound right as well. I own nearly every strings library on the planet and there is absolutely no way the Synchron Strings Pro stands a chance in the top 10 in my arsenal.
> 
> By the way, in case anyone wants to buy Syn Strings 1, just feel free to make an offer. I’ve been trying to get rid of it since years but no luck.



PM me, please. I'm still new and can't PM you.


----------



## jaketanner

chapbot said:


> Let me know how dry it can get !


With the close mic only, the decay is maybe a little under a second, but certainly not wet...the room is not really a wet room to begin with though...but bone dry it's not...at least not the true Synchron stuff.


----------



## jaketanner

SomeGuy said:


> I always feel like I’m messing up with my VSL purchases


The one way around this, is to buy as you need...not because it's on sale...especially not VSL since they are releasing one after another. Someone like CSS I can see taking advantage of a pre-sale price...because they release once every couple of years...but VSL is churring them out...so I know what you mean...but buy if you really need it now, not later.


----------



## jaketanner

star.keys said:


> I’ve been trying to get rid of it since years but no luck.


me too...for about 2 months.. LOL May as well keep it at this point... But I'm selling probably for different reasons..I just have too many others that I went a different route with my writing, not because they were bad.


----------



## Frederick

I just bought the full version of Synchron Strings Pro for less than 400 Euros at AudioDeluxe.


----------



## jaketanner

Not to take away sales from VSL, but for those worried about the extra mics for the string libraries...look at it this way. The additional mics add some distance...the main mics used for strings are there already, and unless you are doing surround, you don't really need them. Strings sit in the from anyway...winds and brass...percussion I can see being set a bit further with those additional mics, but the strings you'd want right where they're sitting...not sure it's a good investment for double the price.


----------



## Beans

jaketanner said:


> The one way around this, is to buy as you need...not because it's on sale...especially not VSL since they are releasing one after another. Someone like CSS I can see taking advantage of a pre-sale price...because they release once every couple of years...but VSL is churring them out...so I know what you mean...but buy if you really need it now, not later.



In this case, I'm hoping that this case is the situation, for me, of, "I *did *wait by not purchasing SS1, so now I'll buy SSPro."


----------



## Markrs

Frederick said:


> I just bought the full version of Synchron Strings Pro for less than 400 Euros at AudioDeluxe.


Very good price, I did see it eariler, they have not only discounted the standard and pro versions but also the upgrade between the 2, plus you get some off using the SUMMER2020 code. Not sure if you can take advantage of the 14 days guarantee though if you don't like it.


----------



## muziksculp

jaketanner said:


> Not to take away sales from VSL, but for those worried about the extra mics for the string libraries...look at it this way. The additional mics add some distance...the main mics used for strings are there already, and unless you are doing surround, you don't really need them. Strings sit in the from anyway...winds and brass...percussion I can see being set a bit further with those additional mics, but the strings you'd want right where they're sitting...not sure it's a good investment for double the price.



I think the additional mics of the Full version of SSPro when mixed with the more close, and tree mics add more of a dimension, depth, and body to the sound, kind of what the tons of mics in the BBCSO Pro version offer, they are not a must have, but if you want to create some special character or shade of color to the strings they can be mixed in to taste. They surely are more of a luxury than a necessity.

I'm kind of undecided if I should get the full or standard version of SSPro. Not very easy to decide on this one.


----------



## Frederick

Markrs said:


> Very good price, I did see it eariler, they have not only discounted the standard and pro versions but also the upgrade between the 2, plus you get some off using the SUMMER2020 code. Not sure if you can take advantage of the 14 days guarantee though if you don't like it.



Yep, the upgrade is the ticket. It doesn't make sense - the full lib is more expensive than standard plus upgrade. I figured it might be a mistake so I decided to act immediately.

I've assumed I won't be able to return it, but then again many here and even Guy Michelmore seem to be convinced by its quality. The demos didn't do it for me, but the videos were convincing enough.

EDITt: AudioDeluxe has fixed the upgrade price. It seems I got lucky with about $80 extra discount.


----------



## Markrs

Frederick said:


> Yep, the upgrade is the ticket. It doesn't make sense - the full lib is more expensive than standard plus upgrade. I figured it might be a mistake so I decided to act immediately.
> 
> I've assumed I won't be able to return it, but then again many here and even Guy Michelmore seem to be convinced by its quality. The demos didn't do it for me, but the videos were convincing enough.


I was tempted for the same reason, most likely by tomorrow it will have been corrected but in the end I would only really need the standard version. I will probably wait and see with this library and see how I feel the closer it gets to ending on 2nd November


----------



## muziksculp

I have uninstalled Synch. Strings I a while back, didn't like them.

Now that Synchron Strings Pro offers most of what Synchron Strings I offered (but improved), plus much more, I'm going to buy Synchron Strings Pro and use it without bothering to install Synchron Strings I, I don't think I need SS1. My big decision is do I get SSPro Full, or Standard.

If I get really attached to using SSPro, because they sound so good, and offer me a lot of what I need, then I feel it makes more sense to buy SSPro Full, on the other hand, if I don't eventually use them that much, I would think the Standard version would be sufficient. But as is, there is no way I can tell in advance which version of SSPro to buy, I can always upgrade from Standard to Full if I feel I needed to have more Mic options, so that seems to be the safest option, but I'm still undecided.


----------



## José Herring

muziksculp said:


> I have uninstalled Synch. Strings I a while back, didn't like them.
> 
> Now that Synchron Strings Pro offers most of what Synchron Strings I offered (but improved), plus much more, I'm going to buy Synchron Strings Pro and use it without bothering to install Synchron Strings I, I don't think I need SS1. My big decision is do I get SSPro Full, or Standard.
> 
> If I get really attached to using SSPro, because they sound so good, and offer me a lot of what I need, then I feel it makes more sense to buy SSPro Full, on the other hand, if I don't eventually use them that much, I would think the Standard version would be sufficient. But as is, there is no way I can tell in advance which version of SSPro to buy, I can always upgrade from Standard to Full if I feel I needed to have more Mic options, so that seems to be the safest option, but I'm still undecided.


I considered that too but with only 2 velocity layers for the longs and legatos, man I can't imagine that being very good. But, it can move around a lot and the syncrhon stage will blend nicely with just about any library. Hmmmmm........ It actually may be the way to go to just get SSPro standard and find out if it can be used for anything.


----------



## Zanshin

IMO SS1 is way underrated. I’m excited for SSPro!! 

Never saw the need or desire for full mics.

Sadly I ordered SSPro from Best Service over six hours ago and no key yet. So don’t order from Best Service if you want some instant satisfaction (or reasonable timeframe satisfaction lol) :( :(


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

José Herring said:


> Dynamics are really restrained in the Barber Adagio demo making it sound as bland as hell.





Zedcars said:


> Listen to the Violins in Adagio for Strings. For the most part it sounds fantastic, then all of a sudden the vibrato gets dialled up and it sounds a bit off, almost like an LFO. I can't quite place it. Can only hear it on headphones if I concentrate on the left channel.



These criticisms best leveled at the person who performed and recorded the demo, rather than the library itself, as it is simply doing what it has been asked to do. 

Starting with Zedcars', there are two ways to handle the crescendo in the 1st violins in bar 3: 1- Increase the volume (velocity crossfade), 2- increase the intensity.

A string section directed to play with "more intensity" while still maintaining a pianissimo dynamic will, generally speaking, adjust the intensity of the vibrato.

The first 2 quarter notes in bar 3, 1st Violins, are performed, by all string players and on all recordings, as a very slight portamento. The minor third jump down afterwards finds itself _well into the crescendo_, thus a change should be well underway at this point in terms of the sought-after intensity. Alas, to careful listeners, this might be perceived as breaking the phrase (the final 6 notes are bowed in groups of 3, instead that bar being grouped in two sets of 4 per bow).

You have an excellent ear for picking that up! Rest assured that if you do not accept this interpretation of the opening phrase, laying off that vibrato change is absolutely controllable.

To Mr. Herring's comment, the indicated dynamic range in this excerpt is from pianissimo to mezzoforte plus, never forte. The key to this piece is the pacing, which is determined by the tempo and dynamics. While it is totally possible to play rehearsal #1 forte, it leads to a fairly unsatisfactory climax two pages later. Knowing that this demo would end at rehearsal #2, it was the conscious choice to not treat the music until that point as a standalone piece of music, but in its context.

Some may have a preference for the approach taken by Rattle and Berlin, which ignores much of the dynamic ink coupled with aberrant "espr. cantando" license. Others may have a preference for the quiet desperation under Bernstein's weeping baton.

Either way, the Synchron Strings Pro responds.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

José Herring said:


> I considered that too but with only 2 velocity layers for the longs and legatos.



There are separate articulations for pianissimo longs/legatos plus cross-fading cells which transition from layer 0 (flautando) to layer 1 (labeled "pp" ...pianissimo) to layers 2+3 (normal) to molto vibrato which is a more "intense" loud.


----------



## José Herring

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> There are separate articulations for pianissimo longs/legatos plus cross-fading cells which transition from layer 0 (flautando) to layer 1 (labeled "pp" ...pianissimo) to layers 2+3 (normal) to molto vibrato which is a more "intense" loud.


Interesting. Intrigued.

The person doing the Adagio demo, it appeared to me that the dynamics were restrained because the library jumps from one dynamic layer to its louder one thus causing the demo maker to keep it all down on the lower side, thus creating a dynamically static performance.


----------



## jaketanner

muziksculp said:


> I think the additional mics of the Full version of SSPro when mixed with the more close, and tree mics add more of a dimension, depth, and body to the sound, kind of what the tons of mics in the BBCSO Pro version offer, they are not a must have, but if you want to create some special character or shade of color to the strings they can be mixed in to taste. They surely are more of a luxury than a necessity.
> 
> I'm kind of undecided if I should get the full or standard version of SSPro. Not very easy to decide on this one.


I do agree...more of a luxury. I mean even with BBCSO, I wouldn't use all the mics...but having the option of a few is always nice. In Synchron's case, not sure it's needed though...but yes: nice to have if you can swing it. Maybe when on massive sale I might...(if I still own them).. LOL


----------



## jaketanner

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> There are separate articulations for pianissimo longs/legatos plus cross-fading cells which transition from layer 0 (flautando) to layer 1 (labeled "pp" ...pianissimo) to layers 2+3 (normal) to molto vibrato which is a more "intense" loud.


Are you figuring there are at least 2 dynamics per articulation in this case then? Making it at least 5 velocity layers?


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

jaketanner said:


> Are you figuring there are at least 2 dynamics per articulation in this case then? Making it at least 5 velocity layers?



For legato/longs, basically. (To be ultra specific, the flautando and pp are separate cells.)

The shorts have 6 plus there is a separate "fff" short articulation that resembles the "harsh" (velocity value of 120-127 in the original Synchron Strings).


----------



## method1

Just spent a little time with it, very nice addition to SYS1 - really enjoying the "feel" of the new legato patches. The longs in general are really lovely and the addition of measured trem is great 

As far the the full vs. standard thing, for me the extra mics are a must & I'm glad I went for the full version.

However, some of the shorts are kinda strange, especially 1st violins - the spiccatos and col leg sound like they're in another room, there's an odd volume and spacial discrepancy between the staccatos and spicattos, and same with the pizz vs the Legno.. not sure what's up, almost feel like there are samples missing? I'm gonna write to support now.


----------



## Vadium

method1 said:


> really enjoying the "feel" of the new legato patches.


Could you be so good as to render same passage by new types of legato?


----------



## chapbot

To anyone who has purchased this, could you throw up a quick demo of a dry violin and cello legato line? I'm curious how it would sound with no reverb and a close setting.


----------



## Werty

wow!


----------



## jaketanner

method1 said:


> Just spent a little time with it, very nice addition to SYS1 - really enjoying the "feel" of the new legato patches. The longs in general are really lovely and the addition of measured trem is great
> 
> As far the the full vs. standard thing, for me the extra mics are a must & I'm glad I went for the full version.
> 
> However, some of the shorts are kinda strange, especially 1st violins - the spiccatos and col leg sound like they're in another room, there's an odd volume and spacial discrepancy between the staccatos and spicattos, and same with the pizz vs the Legno.. not sure what's up, almost feel like there are samples missing? I'm gonna write to support now.


Hi...so you have SY 1? My question is what is exactly new in Pro? Falutando is also in SY 1, so they recorded more? What happens to the overlap in articulations in SY 1 and Pro? Are the new recordings meant to replace what overlaps in Sy 1? 

Thanks.


----------



## jaketanner

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> For legato/longs, basically. (To be ultra specific, the flautando and pp are separate cells.)
> 
> The shorts have 6 plus there is a separate "fff" short articulation that resembles the "harsh" (velocity value of 120-127 in the original Synchron Strings).


Are there redundant patches from SY 1 in Pro? Does Pro take over where Sy 1 leaves off on certain articulations? Like Flautando, shorts...longs etc? I know there are new legatos. Also, is it a separate library, or does pro combine with SY 1 all in one player? I would not like having two players open for the same library.. LOL. Thanks man.


----------



## richhickey

I'm a SyS-I owner (and fan), and have spent couple of hours now with SyS Pro side-by-side.

These are first impressions.

*More repackaging from VSL*

This has a _substantial_ amount of content from SyS-I, while being an extremely limited subset as far as dynamics go. In every way SyS-I shorts/longs/legatos are better and more realistic IMO.

shorts: higher dyns of shorts are split off into separate patches, shrug
'agile' is onset trim? not terribly different

longs: nothing but far fewer dyns and much less expressivity, the new soft releases are too long and unnatural.

new 'legatos': drunken section woo woo overlap legato that sounds like minimoog glide, that everyone demanded, ugh

legato 'agile' - even worse

shorter cresc/dims, but starting from zero/max regardless of dyn is not useful - one can perform better dyns with SyS-I

*What's really new/useful for SyS-I owners:*

detache
legato flautando
portamento (if that's your thing)
better sforzato
measured trem
col legno
harmonic longs and trem
sul pont short, long, legato, trem

You'll have to decide if that's worth the $150 (standard) 'crossgrade'. I'm not upset about purchasing it, but I am sad for the Synchron Series.

*Pro?*

To be clear there is nothing 'Pro' about this library. 2 dynamic levels is not Pro. It's a tiny articulation increment over SyS-I that couldn't be sold as such, supplemented by crippled subset of SyS-I and packaged as a new 'complete' offering. On its own, it possesses none of the distinctions SyS-I has over other sample libs - huge dynamic range and modeling-like expressivity.

As a complement to SyS-I, I'm concerned there was far less care here over dynamic range matching, which will make switching to/from SyS-I patches and these more of a headache.

*Sigh*

Playing this back-to-back with SyS-I reveals once again what a great, realistic and groundbreakingly expressive a sample library that is. But everyone complained about it, and VSL clearly has abandoned it's high-fidelity mission. You got what you asked for - IMO, an utter disappointment. I hope you enjoy gliding from one note to another while turning the volume of 2 dyns up and down


----------



## jaketanner

richhickey said:


> I'm a SyS-I owner (and fan), and have spent couple of hours now with SyS Pro side-by-side.
> 
> These are first impressions.
> 
> *More repackaging from VSL*
> 
> This has a _substantial_ amount of content from SyS-I, while being an extremely limited subset as far as dynamics go. In every way SyS-I shorts/longs/legatos are better and more realistic IMO.
> 
> shorts: higher dyns of shorts are split off into separate patches, shrug
> 'agile' is onset trim? not terribly different
> 
> longs: nothing but far fewer dyns and much less expressivity, the new soft releases are too long and unnatural.
> 
> new 'legatos': drunken section woo woo overlap legato that sounds like minimoog glide, that everyone demanded, ugh
> 
> legato 'agile' - even worse
> 
> shorter cresc/dims, but starting from zero/max regardless of dyn is not useful - one can perform better dyns with SyS-I
> 
> *What's really new/useful for SyS-I owners:*
> 
> detache
> legato flautando
> portamento (if that's your thing)
> better sforzato
> measured trem
> col legno
> harmonic longs and trem
> sul pont short, long, legato, trem
> 
> You'll have to decide if that's worth the $150 (standard) 'crossgrade'. I'm not upset about purchasing it, but I am sad for the Synchron Series.
> 
> *Pro?*
> 
> To be clear there is nothing 'Pro' about this library. 2 dynamic levels is not Pro. It's a tiny articulation increment over SyS-I that couldn't be sold as such, supplemented by crippled subset of SyS-I and packaged as a new 'complete' offering. On its own, it possesses none of the distinctions SyS-I has over other sample libs - huge dynamic range and modeling-like expressivity.
> 
> As a complement to SyS-I, I'm concerned there was far less care here over dynamic range matching, which will make switching to/from SyS-I patches and these more of a headache.
> 
> *Sigh*
> 
> Playing this back-to-back with SyS-I reveals once again what a great, realistic and groundbreakingly expressive a sample library that is. But everyone complained about it, and VSL clearly has abandoned it's high-fidelity mission. You got what you asked for - IMO, an utter disappointment. I hope you enjoy gliding from one note to another while turning the volume of 2 dyns up and down


I don't have Pro yet...just going off what is mentioned here: It sounds to me like they should have just gone with an SE version of Synchron Strings instead of calling it "pro".

I have Sy 1, and would rather have replacement patches that are superior to what I currently have. Either articulations are replaced, or make the new recordings on par dynamically with Sy 1...after all this IS Synchron Strings Pro.

Based off what you said, this is a bit disappointing...although I do like the additions: Detache and portamento (I like having it in case).


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

chapbot said:


> To anyone who has purchased this, could you throw up a quick demo of a dry violin and cello legato line? I'm curious how it would sound with no reverb and a close setting.



Completely exposed, no frills, no fx. Close mono mic (1st chair) mid/back section mics (a couple feet above the players.

(...and other folks, please note this is not how I would mix this library. This is for demonstration purposes.)


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

jaketanner said:


> As for Flautando, this is already in SY1, so what is different?



Legato flautando instead of long notes without note-to-note transitions.


----------



## jaketanner

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Legato flautando instead of long notes without note-to-note transitions.


Ah..ok thought so.. THat's good then. Thanks.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> I don't have Pro yet...just going off what is mentioned here: It sounds to me like they should have just gone with an SE version of Synchron Strings instead of calling it "pro".
> 
> I have Sy 1, and would rather have replacement patches that are superior to what I currently have. Either articulations are replaced, or make the new recordings on par dynamically with Sy 1...after all this IS Synchron Strings Pro.
> 
> Based off what you said, this is a bit disappointing...although I do like the additions: Detache and portamento (I like having it in case).



Have you purchased the Synchron Strings Pro yet? Think after the initial user feedback coming in I might hold of a little longer to see what some others have to say about it.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Have you purchased the Synchron Strings Pro yet? Think after the initial user feedback coming in I might hold of a little longer to see what some others have to say about it.


I completely agree. I’m not rushing in.


----------



## Beans

The introductory price has a pretty solid duration. I'm hoping we get some further feedback here and potentially even walkthroughs beyond what Guy showed today.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> I completely agree. I’m not rushing in.



I was pretty set on it, but I think it probably is a wise decision to hold off for a bit on this one and get some more users feedback from it. Overall I do really like what I hear from it. On paper it sounds great and it seems like they have addressed many issues with Synchron Strings 1, however, I also don't want certain key things compromised or made worse than Synchron Strings 1 such as having limited dynamics to the point of being an issue or any big programming problem. I also think @method1 mentioned some issues with the shorts. I assumed that this would all not be the case as its called pro and is being mentioned as their new flagship strings library.


----------



## Beans

John R Wilson said:


> I assumed that this would all not be the case as its called pro and is being mentioned as their new flagship strings library.



Heck, look at BBCSO "Pro." I own that, and can't even knock someone's teeth out with the raw power of a horn ensemble sustaining a chord. I have to do it the old fashioned way.

EDIT: No, but really, sometimes the brass does feel a bit weak.


----------



## John R Wilson

Beans said:


> Heck, look at BBCSO "Pro." I own that, and can't even knock someone's teeth out with the raw power of a horn ensemble sustaining a chord. I have to do it the old fashioned way.
> 
> EDIT: No, but really, sometimes the brass does feel a bit weak.



I think a lot of BBCSO "pro" has 2 dynamic layers in a lot of instruments as well and yep the horn isn't the best. I think having less dynamic layers does effect certain instruments in the BBCSO. I think Synchron Strings Pro has 2 dynamic layers but also has some of the pianissimo and louder dynamics split into different articulations so their is more dynamics there.


----------



## jaketanner

Beans said:


> Heck, look at BBCSO "Pro." I own that, and can't even knock someone's teeth out with the raw power of a horn ensemble sustaining a chord. I have to do it the old fashioned way.
> 
> EDIT: No, but really, sometimes the brass does feel a bit weak.


Nothing a few other brass instruments can't fix though.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Synchron Strings Pro has 2 dynamic layers but also has some of the pianissimo and louder dynamics split into different articulations so their is more dynamics there.


True...but why? How can I get a performance if I can't use the entire dynamic range? Although I think you can layer articulations.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> True...but why? How can I get a performance if I can't use the entire dynamic range? Although I think you can layer articulations.



Very true, I was just thinking all this as well. I was wondering about this for the legatos too, for example, do you need to keyswitch to a the portamento articulation/patch if you want a portamento on a note?


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Very true, I was just thinking all this as well. I was wondering about this for the legatos too, for example, do you need to keyswitch to a the portamento articulation/patch if you want a portamento on a note?


I believe you do...based off their other libraries. Portamento is its own patch. I think though, you can easily layer them, and create velocity making so that it switches below a certain range.

EDIT: I just tried...can't seem to find where I would select dynamic ranges. Maybe can't be done.


----------



## Zanshin

You can definitely switch based on dynamics, speed, etc. For example there's an art in SS1 that switches legato types based on note speed. It's a super flexible, you can use velocity, aftertouch, CCs and under the 'Control' tab you can invert, set ranges, and adjust curves.


----------



## jaketanner

Zanshin said:


> You can definitely switch based on dynamics, speed, etc. For example there's an art in SS1 that switches legato types based on note speed. It's a super flexible, you can use velocity, aftertouch, CCs and under the 'Control' tab you can invert, set ranges, and adjust curves.


I see the auto speed feature, but I don't see where it can switch to portamento on lower velocities or slower speeds, and regular legato on higher velocities or faster speed?


----------



## Zanshin

jaketanner said:


> I see the auto speed feature, but I don't see where it can switch to portamento on lower velocities or slower speeds, and regular legato on higher velocities or faster speed?



So the two legato speeds it switches between in “Auto-Speed”? Those are articulations. You could copy and paste the two short articulations in there for example and replace the legato arts. Following me? You could replace the switching based on ‘speed’ to switch based on CC1, or velocity, or whatever. You could add a third art in and then it would switch between all three. I’m just scratching the surface.

Edit: So given the above, when I demo’d the SE Dimension Strings I changed it so it would switch between legato and portamento based on velocity (like SF performance legato). I assume you could set up something similar in SS Pro. I don’t know for sure though because Best Service still has not sent my serial code.


----------



## jaketanner

Zanshin said:


> So the two legato speeds it switches between in “Auto-Speed”? Those are articulations. You could copy and paste the two short articulations in there for example and replace the legato arts. Following me? You could replace the switching based on ‘speed’ to switch based on CC1, or velocity, or whatever. You could add a third art in and then it would switch between all three. I’m just scratching the surface.
> 
> Edit: So given the above, when I demo’d the SE Dimension Strings I changed it so it would switch between legato and portamento based on velocity (like SF performance legato). I assume you could set up something similar in SS Pro. I don’t know for sure though because Best Service still has not sent my serial code.


Got it, thanks. And did BS have a better price? Audiodeluxe.com has it for an even $150...


----------



## Zanshin

jaketanner said:


> Got it, thanks. And did BS have a better price? Audiodeluxe.com has it for an even $150...



With the BS VSL upgrade checking thing it brought it to $147. So pretty close to AD.


----------



## jaketanner

Zanshin said:


> With the BS VSL upgrade checking thing it brought it to $147. So pretty close to AD.


Oh wow. Even better. Thanks


----------



## Virtuoso

Zanshin said:


> ...Best Service still has not sent my serial code.


Due to the time difference, I find there's always a lag of 20 hours or so between placing a VSL order via Best Service and receiving the serial. They send your info to VSL who register it to your account and then issue the serial directly. I'm on US Pacific Time and the serials tend to arrive around 1-3am the following day.


----------



## tcb

I like its sound but only 2 velocity layers in legato…
I am waiting for more demo then determine whether purchase SSP.


----------



## ptram

Regarding the two layers for longs: if I understand correctly, they used a different approach for dynamics control, allowing for a larger number of steps via MIDI. So, you crossfade between ff and p with a control, and between p and pp with a different control. This means that there are 256 steps for controlling three dynamic layers.

Is this easy to use? Most of the time, actually, dynamics remain over pp, and only fade down to pp in particular passages (end of a phrase, subdued passages).

Paolo


----------



## ptram

muziksculp said:


> I think the additional mics of the Full version of SSPro when mixed with the more close, and tree mics add more of a dimension, depth, and body to the sound


With BBO, I often go for close mics and the tree. I wonder if the Standard library has some holes, or only the surround/3D aspect is left out.

Also, is the Room mix included in the Standard library? I'm not sure to understand it from the web site.

Paolo


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

ptram said:


> if I understand correctly, they used a different approach for dynamics control, allowing for a larger number of steps via MIDI. So, you crossfade between ff and p with a control, and between p and pp with a different control. This means that there are 256 steps for controlling three dynamic layers.



Exactly.


----------



## dhowarthmusic

Just upgraded to the Synchron Pro and think it is well worth the price. All these sounds should have been included in the original product when it came out a few years ago and I was one of the very disappointed users when this library originally came out a few years ago. Particularly it's lack of a good vibrato.

A lot of the sounds are the same as Synchron 1 but the names have changed. The Cantabile Strong vibrato patch from Synchron Strings 1 is now called Multi Vibrato in the Pro and the Cantabile Light Vibrato from Synchron 1 is now just called regular Vibrato. 

I compared the sound to Synchron 1 and the new vibrato patches are exactly the same as the cantabile patches used there. I was thinking they had new multi vibrato patches but they are definitely the same as the Cantabile if you have Synchron Strings 1. This is a good thing as the original vibrato patches had no emotion whatsoever. They now sound beautiful and are the best sounds in the library to my ears and the new detached is beautiful too and have a similar emotion and expression to the vibrato patches.

The Agile Legato is superb for playing fast runs as long as you use the normal releases. The new soft releases sound way too loud to my ears and need a volume control to bring them down. The new Spiccato is very clean, tight sounding and great to play. The measured tremolo sounds great too.

The Full String patches which are now called Tutti are worth the upgrade price alone and are much better programmed than the original version 1. There are octave patches too for Violins 1+2, Violins 2+Violas, Violas+Cellos and Cellos and Basses which sound amazing when you use the multi vibrato patches and you can change the mix of each section so you are not stuck with the full octave sound and can mix the two layers however you like unlike some octave patches in other libraries.

Finally happy with this library after all these years it has been out and can now start to actually using it.


----------



## Piotrek K.

ptram said:


> if I understand correctly, they used a different approach for dynamics control, allowing for a larger number of steps via MIDI. So, you crossfade between ff and p with a control, and between p and pp with a different control. This means that there are 256 steps for controlling three dynamic layers.



It sounds interesting but doesn't sound very user friendly. It means that dynamics arecontrolled with two different things - CC and Keyswitch. If you forget about keyswitch you will never hear pp. Confusing a bit. Adding those release samples is also something that makes me uneasy. I get the concept, but I feel that things like that should happen under the hood. I don't want to bother with another thing to control. 

Plus in general I'm not a fan of Synchron Player tree structure (things nested within things). VI matrices I do love though. Ufff, I think I convinced myself I don't want this... but will follow this thread for sure


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

dhowarthmusic said:


> The Cantabile Strong vibrato patch from Synchron Strings 1 is now called Multi Vibrato in the Pro and the Cantabile Light Vibrato from Synchron 1 is now just called regular Vibrato.



Pardon one quibble...

"Molto Vib" in SSP is the same as "Cantabile Strong" in SS1. In fact, if you play the two at the same time, you will hear very obvious phase effects!

But the normal vibrato articulations in in SSP are new recordings.

In my custom preset (still a work in progress) I have added a couple articulations from SS1, one of which is the Cantabile Light, with a crossfade option split from the Molto Vibrato cell.


----------



## dhowarthmusic

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Pardon one quibble...
> 
> "Molto Vib" in SSP is the same as "Cantabile Strong" in SS1. In fact, if you play the two at the same time, you will hear very obvious phase effects!
> 
> But the normal vibrato articulations in in SSP are new recordings.
> 
> In my custom preset (still a work in progress) I have added a couple articulations from SS1, one of which is the Cantabile Light, with a crossfade option split from the Molto Vibrato cell.


If you compare the Cantabile light vibrato to the Pro normal vibrato patch they sound exactly the same. I don’t think they have recorded a new vibrato patch for the Pro version.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

dhowarthmusic said:


> If you compare the Cantabile light vibrato to the Pro normal vibrato patch they sound exactly the same. I don’t think they have recorded a new vibrato patch for the Pro version.



Could be same recording techniques/players? Stack the patches, there's no phase, unlike with the molto patch.

Part of the reason for the rerecord, from my understanding, is that normal vibrato needed to match transitions with the agile legato, portamento, and non vibrato patches. Not sure this would be feasible to match if there weren't new recordings, but maybe @Ben can clarify.


----------



## jamwerks

I personally love the tree structure of the player, but am pretty sure that you can populate new cells you create any way you like.


----------



## Piotrek K.

jamwerks said:


> I personally love the tree structure of the player, but am pretty sure that you can populate new cells you create any way you like.



Yes, we can do things however we want and that's why VSL players are best of the best imo. I just prefer matrices from VI. They are more transparent to me.


----------



## ptram

If someone has both libraries, what are the advantages of this new library over the classic Orchestral Strings one? I see the differences, but I’m trying to understand when the new one is preferable to the old one in actual use.

Paolo


----------



## Vadium

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Completely exposed, no frills, no fx. Close mono mic (1st chair) mid/back section mics (a couple feet above the players.
> 
> (...and other folks, please note this is not how I would mix this library. This is for demonstration purposes.)


hm.. this example shows that this "pro" library is completely missing rebow...


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

The score, nor standard performance practice, doesn’t indicate double down bows or up bows, as far as I know.


----------



## Vadium

here isn't needs double down bows or up bows, just bow changes - but I can't hear them in this example, sounds as played on the keyboard, but not strings


----------



## jamwerks

So it seems that currently the price in Europe for Syn Strings I + Syn Strings Pro is 600 euros (450 + 150)?


----------



## Sovereign

I picked it up last evening but I'm not sure I'll be keeping it. There's quite a bit which sounds okay to good, but the legatos still just don't do it for me and I disagree with the approach taken. Transitions are barely audible and they seem to be cut as short as possible. While this reduces latency/delay, it IMHO also sucks the life out of it and gives legato playing a midi effect which you can't remedy in editing. VSL should have left more of the interval in, and make the user decide how much ms transitions last (Areia approach). Also somewhat disappointed in the 2 velocity layers, didn't like it in BBCSO and don't like that approach here.


----------



## holywilly

Piotrek K. said:


> Yes, we can do things however we want and that's why VSL players are best of the best imo. I just prefer matrices from VI. They are more transparent to me.


I wish one day Synchron Player has numeric parameters (like VI Pro) instead of curve, like I want to trigger portamento at the very low velocity, like 15 and below.
Other than that, Synchron Player is awesome for multi mic libraries.


----------



## mushanga

holywilly said:


> I wish one day Synchron Player has numeric parameters (like VI Pro) instead of curve, like I want to trigger portamento at the very low velocity, like 15 and below.
> Other than that, Synchron Player is awesome for multi mic libraries.


Completely agree - this is something I really disliked about the Synchron Player and is why I am sticking to the Vienna Instruments player for most VSL instruments I am using (predominantly woodwinds from the original Special Editions).

The other thing that annoyed me with the Synchron Player was having to reassign CC1 (modwheel) to Vel.XF every time I loaded an instrument - it defaults to Dim.Ctrl/A.


----------



## Ben

Vadium said:


> hm.. this example shows that this "pro" library is completely missing rebow...


Just re-trigger the note. Or use the sustain pedal to connect both notes.


----------



## Ben

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Could be same recording techniques/players? Stack the patches, there's no phase, unlike with the molto patch.
> 
> Part of the reason for the rerecord, from my understanding, is that normal vibrato needed to match transitions with the agile legato, portamento, and non vibrato patches. Not sure this would be feasible to match if there weren't new recordings, but maybe @Ben can clarify.


As far as I know this is a new recording. I can't look it up at the moment, but feel free to contact our support: [email protected]


----------



## Leo

Very strange, 
from demos by Guy - Articulation Examples - this strings sounds extraordinary,
but from "regular" demos sounds tiny ( Flight of the Black Dragon, Mussorgsky muck up ...).
Only Adagio for Strings sounds very nice from regular.
Maybe because regular compositions is weak, written not very for strings.


----------



## JEPA

doctoremmet said:


> Paging @jaketanner @Stephen Limbaugh
> 
> Edit: paging @JEPA Jorge, you making new demos for this one?



...let's see?


----------



## Zanshin

Virtuoso said:


> Due to the time difference, I find there's always a lag of 20 hours or so between placing a VSL order via Best Service and receiving the serial. They send your info to VSL who register it to your account and then issue the serial directly. I'm on US Pacific Time and the serials tend to arrive around 1-3am the following day.



Yes, it was in my email this morning. I guess I know what to expect now, and the prices are very good there for VSL stuff.


----------



## pinki

I have to say from listening to the video demos that theses strings sound absolutely beautiful and convincing. This is exactly the sound I'm after and have never found it in a string library before. CSS was close but it never clicked for me. 
Congratulations VSL team.


----------



## method1

ptram said:


> Regarding the two layers for longs: if I understand correctly, they used a different approach for dynamics control, allowing for a larger number of steps via MIDI. So, you crossfade between ff and p with a control, and between p and pp with a different control. This means that there are 256 steps for controlling three dynamic layers.
> 
> Is this easy to use? Most of the time, actually, dynamics remain over pp, and only fade down to pp in particular passages (end of a phrase, subdued passages).
> 
> Paolo



Yes, a patch like this is shown in walkthrough video 3, that patch isn't included in the library but only takes a minute to set up, I recreated the one in the video and also added Flautando.
You have the usual velxf and a slotxf to move between the layers.


----------



## LHall

Looks interesting. But I can't imagine ever being interested in a string library that does not give me divisi options the way my trusty LASS does. I don't care about 30 mic positions. I care about voice distribution.


----------



## method1

method1 said:


> However, some of the shorts are kinda strange, especially 1st violins - the spiccatos and col leg sound like they're in another room, there's an odd volume and spacial discrepancy between the staccatos and spicattos, and same with the pizz vs the Legno.. not sure what's up, almost feel like there are samples missing? I'm gonna write to support now.



I heard back from support and they say the shorts are supposed to behave this way.

So switching between staccato and spicatto or pizz & col leg isn't something that works particularly well in this library due to the volume and tonal differences in the articulations, thats kinda disappointing.


----------



## star.keys

Leo said:


> Very strange,
> from demos by Guy - Articulation Examples - this strings sounds extraordinary,
> but from "regular" demos sounds tiny ( Flight of the Black Dragon, Mussorgsky muck up ...).
> Only Adagio for Strings sounds very nice from regular.
> Maybe because regular compositions is weak, written not very for strings.



It makes me think how awesome the demos of Spitfire and OT strings libraries would sound if Guy Becos makes these! VSL demos unfortunately sound to my ears like played on a keyboard despite one of the best programmers jumping on it... Synthetic, lifeless, pointless


----------



## novaburst

I am thinking this will be the sealing and completion of the Synchron Strings series

and should we consider this as Synchron Strings 2 that of course is called Synchron Strings pro

I think it's a nice ending of the string series if indeed it is the end


----------



## Zero&One

star.keys said:


> By the way, in case anyone wants to buy Syn Strings 1, just feel free to make an offer. I’ve been trying to get rid of it since years but no luck.



£50, DM the details of how we proceed.


----------



## RSK

novaburst said:


> I am thinking this will be the sealing and completion of the Synchron Strings series
> 
> and should we consider this as Synchron Strings 2 that of course is called Synchron Strings pro
> 
> I think it's a nice ending of the string series if indeed it is the end



My guess is they will re-record the Synchron-ized Chamber and Appassionata to create pure Synchron versions. Hopefully not until after Synchron Brass comes out.


----------



## Ben

novaburst said:


> I am thinking this will be the sealing and completion of the Synchron Strings series
> 
> and should we consider this as Synchron Strings 2 that of course is called Synchron Strings pro
> 
> I think it's a nice ending of the string series if indeed it is the end


Do you know more then I do ?!?


----------



## novaburst

Ben said:


> Do you know more then I do ?!?



Of course not I think to bring out a Synchron string 2 after SSpro kind of seems a little unbalanced.

It seemed to be the conclusion of this library but on the other hand if the book is still open and more chapters to read that's a good thing, and look forward to it


----------



## novaburst

RSK said:


> My guess is they will re-record the Synchron-ized Chamber and Appassionata to create pure Synchron versions. Hopefully not until after Synchron Brass comes out.



I was thinking more in line with the original product Synchron Strings 1, I don't really class the Vienna library turned into Synchron as pedigree but rather a change for the new players sake,

So more interesting on weather the Synchron 1 will continue after the pro series


----------



## daviddln

RSK said:


> My guess is they will re-record the Synchron-ized Chamber and Appassionata to create pure Synchron versions. Hopefully not until after Synchron Brass comes out.



I hope they'll record Chamber Strings and Solo Strings. It would be awesome. But yes, after Synchron Brass!


----------



## richhickey

novaburst said:


> I am thinking this will be the sealing and completion of the Synchron Strings series
> 
> and should we consider this as Synchron Strings 2 that of course is called Synchron Strings pro
> 
> I think it's a nice ending of the string series if indeed it is the end



I sure hope not. There's no way I would consider this SyS 2, and I think good reasons why it wasn't called that. As a customer of SyS 1, I remain in the dark about the strategy and timeline of any completion of that library as originally envisioned. I find the release of SyS Pro before (and maybe in lieu of) SyS 2 disheartening.

I agree with the other suggestion that SyS SE is a better name for this.


----------



## FabioA

method1 said:


> I heard back from support and they say the shorts are supposed to behave this way.
> 
> So switching between staccato and spicatto or pizz & col leg isn't something that works particularly well in this library due to the volume and tonal differences in the articulations, thats kinda disappointing.



Luckily the Synchron Player lets you customise the level of each individual patch, through the "edit" window.


----------



## holywilly

Maybe Synchron Strings II is Con Sordino and III is Sul Tasto.


----------



## method1

FabioA said:


> Luckily the Synchron Player lets you customise the level of each individual patch, through the "edit" window.



That's a good tip thanks, but the volume inconsistencies vary from note to note. 

It's also not just a case of volume but certain notes sound differently in the stereo field and some sound closer and others further.

I don't understand the thinking behind having so much variance between the stacc & spicc.


----------



## star.keys

Zero&One said:


> £50, DM the details of how we proceed.


That’s the problem with this library, resale value is shambolic, it seems nobody wants to pay more than a few quids. £50 is what VSL charge me, plus shipping and cost of dongle my friend 😀


----------



## star.keys

richhickey said:


> I sure hope not. There's no way I would consider this SyS 2, and I think good reasons why it wasn't called that. As a customer of SyS 1, I remain in the dark about the strategy and timeline of any completion of that library as originally envisioned. I find the release of SyS Pro before (and maybe in lieu of) SyS 2 disheartening.
> 
> I agree with the other suggestion that SyS SE is a better name for this.



Exactly my thought. And they are recommending people to buy the Pro first, completely killing the Sys1 proposition and effectively, to me it sounds like they want to avoid what happened with Sys1 in the past to repeat. Evident from above posts where people aren’t willing to offer even £150 for Sys1 now. I waited long enough hoping to get the legato fixed and it is irritating for me to see a new product being launched like this. No thank you, I’m more than happy with CSS, SSS, OT, PS and many other libraries. VSL has not been filling me with confidence at all. If I buy one library today, it would be CSS. Then SCS, followed by Berlin Strings, SSS, 8Dio, then specialised libraries such as performance samples, soaring strings etc. VSL is nowhere on my list unless I’m still living in 1980s.


----------



## Ben

method1 said:


> That's a good tip thanks, but the volume inconsistencies vary from note to note.
> 
> It's also not just a case of volume but certain notes sound differently in the stereo field and some sound closer and others further.
> 
> I don't understand the thinking behind having so much variance between the stacc & spicc.


Could you create a short example and send me the mp3 and midi file via pm? 
I'll look into it!


----------



## Ben

star.keys said:


> Exactly my thought. And they are recommending people to buy the Pro first, completely killing the Sys1 proposition and effectively, to me it sounds like they want to avoid what happened with Sys1 in the past to repeat. Evident from above posts where people aren’t willing to offer even £150 for Sys1 now. I waited long enough hoping to get the legato fixed and it is irritating for me to see a new product being launched like this. No thank you, I’m more than happy with CSS, SSS, OT, PS and many other libraries. VSL has not been filling me with confidence at all. If I buy one library today, it would be CSS. Then SCS, followed by Berlin Strings, SSS, 8Dio, then specialised libraries such as performance samples, soaring strings etc. VSL is nowhere on my list unless I’m still living in 1980s.


Good that there are so many string libraries you can choose from. If you don't like the sound of one, get another one. It's impossible to match the taste of all musicians out there, and if you try your library will not be usable by anyone. 
So we captured a style of sound we like


----------



## muziksculp

dhowarthmusic said:


> Just upgraded to the Synchron Pro and think it is well worth the price. All these sounds should have been included in the original product when it came out a few years ago and I was one of the very disappointed users when this library originally came out a few years ago. Particularly it's lack of a good vibrato.
> 
> A lot of the sounds are the same as Synchron 1 but the names have changed. The Cantabile Strong vibrato patch from Synchron Strings 1 is now called Multi Vibrato in the Pro and the Cantabile Light Vibrato from Synchron 1 is now just called regular Vibrato.
> 
> I compared the sound to Synchron 1 and the new vibrato patches are exactly the same as the cantabile patches used there. I was thinking they had new multi vibrato patches but they are definitely the same as the Cantabile if you have Synchron Strings 1. This is a good thing as the original vibrato patches had no emotion whatsoever. They now sound beautiful and are the best sounds in the library to my ears and the new detached is beautiful too and have a similar emotion and expression to the vibrato patches.
> 
> The Agile Legato is superb for playing fast runs as long as you use the normal releases. The new soft releases sound way too loud to my ears and need a volume control to bring them down. The new Spiccato is very clean, tight sounding and great to play. The measured tremolo sounds great too.
> 
> The Full String patches which are now called Tutti are worth the upgrade price alone and are much better programmed than the original version 1. There are octave patches too for Violins 1+2, Violins 2+Violas, Violas+Cellos and Cellos and Basses which sound amazing when you use the multi vibrato patches and you can change the mix of each section so you are not stuck with the full octave sound and can mix the two layers however you like unlike some octave patches in other libraries.
> 
> Finally happy with this library after all these years it has been out and can now start to actually using it.



Hi @dhowarthmusic ,

Thank You for your helpful feedback. 

I'm also one of the unhappy ones that purchased Synchorn Stirngs I a few years ago, and even deleted it from my system. 

I'm delighted to read your feedback of Synchron Strings Pro. I'm looking forward to purchasing it but not sure yet if I should go for the Full or Standard version. 

Which version did you buy of Synchron Strings Pro ? If you got the Full version, how useful are the additional Mics it offers, do you feel it is worth getting the Full over the Standard because of the additional Mics ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Beans

Purchase Standard. Beat the heck out of it with tests before the introductory period ends and upgrade, if need be.

Seems a better approach to me than buying Full up front and thinking, "Sure, okay, I _guess _I might need these" and spending money (and drive space) that you could put elsewhere.


----------



## muziksculp

Will VSL be releasing a Con Sordino version of Synchron Strings Pro ?


----------



## novaburst

richhickey said:


> find the release of SyS Pro before (and maybe in lieu of) SyS 2 disheartening.



Perhaps a for runner for the second edition but who knows one thing about developers is they can surprise you or keep you guessing as this SSpro did spring a little surprise.

But suprises are good

So could be more to come.


----------



## novaburst

holywilly said:


> Maybe Synchron Strings II is Con Sordino



Could well be,


----------



## richhickey

ptram said:


> If someone has both libraries, what are the advantages of this new library over the classic Orchestral Strings one? I see the differences, but I’m trying to understand when the new one is preferable to the old one in actual use.
> 
> Paolo



The VI orchestral strings (full) package has _many, many_ more articulations, performance trills, more dyn levels and recorded dynamics, sords, upbeats, grace notes, scale runs, reps etc, etc. You know, like, professional 

Biggest difference in use is the fact that it's dry. It works great in MIR though, with the Synchron stage venue even. Another difference is more artics == more switching. SyS 1 worked to automate reps, fast/slow etc under the covers, but now SyS Pro has e.g. split dynamics, 'bold/agile' etc so more switching there too.

I really like the immediacy of the string recordings in SyS 1. That's only somewhat the case in SyS Pro. VI strings have a different but equally appealing sound.

I personally can't abide by the legatos in SyS Pro - that exaggerated legato is not how real string sections sound except on special occasions (and the overlaps - never). VI strings have recorded slow and fast slurred legatos and sul legatos for those occasions, which is how it should be, IMO.

VSL VI editions remain great, and the current sale prices are good too. Another big advantage of VI strings is that the orchestral/chamber/solo artics are co-aligned and consistent in approach (e.g. 'short detache' means the same thing across the board) and thus layer fantastically well.

TBH I can't recommend SyS Pro on its own. It doesn't distinguish itself as SyS 1 did, and there are lots of options out there.


----------



## dhowarthmusic

muziksculp said:


> Hi @dhowarthmusic ,
> 
> Thank You for your helpful feedback.
> 
> I'm also one of the unhappy ones that purchased Synchorn Stirngs I a few years ago, and even deleted it from my system.
> 
> I'm delighted to read your feedback of Synchron Strings Pro. I'm looking forward to purchasing it but not sure yet if I should go for the Full or Standard version.
> 
> Which version did you buy of Synchron Strings Pro ? If you got the Full version, how useful are the additional Mics it offers, do you feel it is worth getting the Full over the Standard because of the additional Mics ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


I got the standard version as I don't like all the extra mics taking up all my hard drive space. You could get the full version and then return it and keep the standard version if you don't feel like you need the extra mics but at least you get to try them out. Not much more for the full version upgrade. I'm thinking of also deleting Synchron Strings 1 off my system too! I only ever liked the shorts from that library but the Pro has the shorts too and a new spiccato which is great and has a really nice bite when you play them.


----------



## thomasjdev

So I feel like everyone knows this but me... How do you hear the difference in one library vs another and the dynamic layers? 

Is it the transition points as you move through dynamics with CC1 (or however the library controls dynamics)? What are you listening for to decide if there are enough dynamics for your liking? 

I've only been at this for a little over a year so my ears (and skill) have a long way to go. I read some complaints/criticisms of libraries I liked but my ears don't pick up what other people say they don't like. I believe on one hand the criticism is mostly subjective to the person and the context but then there other issues I imagine that a more critical ear hears that your average person (me) would miss.


----------



## muziksculp

dhowarthmusic said:


> I got the standard version as I don't like all the extra mics taking up all my hard drive space. You could get the full version and then return it and keep the standard version if you don't feel like you need the extra mics but at least you get to try them out. Not much more for the full version upgrade. I'm thinking of also deleting Synchron Strings 1 off my system too! I only ever liked the shorts from that library but the Pro has the shorts too and a new spiccato which is great and has a really nice bite when you play them.



Thanks for the feedback.

I'm most likely going to go for the Standard version first, and see if that offers all I need, I'm also not a big fan of lots of mic options, and lots of SSD space utilization of the Full version. I always have the option to upgrade to the Full version from Standard if needed. 

Paul of VSL replied to my post on the VSL forum, mentioning that they will be releasing additional videos that will help me decide if I need the Full version or not. So, I'm looking forward to check the video/s out once they are out.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## José Herring

dhowarthmusic said:


> Just upgraded to the Synchron Pro and think it is well worth the price. All these sounds should have been included in the original product when it came out a few years ago and I was one of the very disappointed users when this library originally came out a few years ago. Particularly it's lack of a good vibrato.
> 
> A lot of the sounds are the same as Synchron 1 but the names have changed. The Cantabile Strong vibrato patch from Synchron Strings 1 is now called Multi Vibrato in the Pro and the Cantabile Light Vibrato from Synchron 1 is now just called regular Vibrato.
> 
> I compared the sound to Synchron 1 and the new vibrato patches are exactly the same as the cantabile patches used there. I was thinking they had new multi vibrato patches but they are definitely the same as the Cantabile if you have Synchron Strings 1. This is a good thing as the original vibrato patches had no emotion whatsoever. They now sound beautiful and are the best sounds in the library to my ears and the new detached is beautiful too and have a similar emotion and expression to the vibrato patches.
> 
> The Agile Legato is superb for playing fast runs as long as you use the normal releases. The new soft releases sound way too loud to my ears and need a volume control to bring them down. The new Spiccato is very clean, tight sounding and great to play. The measured tremolo sounds great too.
> 
> The Full String patches which are now called Tutti are worth the upgrade price alone and are much better programmed than the original version 1. There are octave patches too for Violins 1+2, Violins 2+Violas, Violas+Cellos and Cellos and Basses which sound amazing when you use the multi vibrato patches and you can change the mix of each section so you are not stuck with the full octave sound and can mix the two layers however you like unlike some octave patches in other libraries.
> 
> Finally happy with this library after all these years it has been out and can now start to actually using it.


Thank you.

Curious do you think that SS1 and SSPro should be viewed as a single product, or could one do well with just SSPro? Mainly I'm looking at the agility of the strings as the main selling point for me, but if SSPro can't live without SS1 then I'll looking into getting the package.


----------



## Kent

thomasjdev said:


> So I feel like everyone knows this but me... How do you hear the difference in one library vs another and the dynamic layers?
> 
> Is it the transition points as you move through dynamics with CC1 (or however the library controls dynamics)? What are you listening for to decide if there are enough dynamics for your liking?
> 
> I've only been at this for a little over a year so my ears (and skill) have a long way to go. I read some complaints/criticisms of libraries I liked but my ears don't pick up what other people say they don't like. I believe on one hand the criticism is mostly subjective to the person and the context but then there other issues I imagine that a more critical ear hears that your average person (me) would miss.


if you like it, use it! no rules. 

There are some great uses of "primitive" libraries and some poor ones of "next-gen" libraries, so it's a lot more about how you use it than what it is...especially when you're just beginning


----------



## ChristianM

[QUOTE = "kmaster, message: 4647222, membre: 13282"]
si vous l'aimez, utilisez-le! pas de règles.

Il y a de bonnes utilisations des bibliothèques "primitives" et de mauvaises bibliothèques "next-gen", donc cela dépend beaucoup plus de la façon dont vous l'utilisez que de ce que c'est ... surtout quand vous ne faites que commencer 
[/CITATION]
hum.


----------



## Casiquire

LHall said:


> Looks interesting. But I can't imagine ever being interested in a string library that does not give me divisi options the way my trusty LASS does. I don't care about 30 mic positions. I care about voice distribution.


I'm with you. I own three major string libraries and each of them offers some level of divisi, and I can't see myself settling for anything less. But considering how few libraries out there offer good divisi, it's not really a criticism I'm going to make against SySP in particular. It seems to be the norm, unfortunately.


----------



## jonnybutter

I complained immoderately about BBCSO Core on another thread because of its - for me - poor legato playability. I got Synchron Strings pro about an hour ago. Much better! at least for me. Playable, very good sounding, very controllable. I like the player so far. It's perfect for me because it can be a good sounding base. I have lots of different string colors but I needed a new base set of sounds. Works for me!


----------



## dhowarthmusic

José Herring said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Curious do you think that SS1 and SSPro should be viewed as a single product, or could one do well with just SSPro? Mainly I'm looking at the agility of the strings as the main selling point for me, but if SSPro can't live without SS1 then I'll looking into getting the package.


I wouldn't waste your money on getting Synchron Strings 1 too. The Pro version has most of the same articulations and more of them and are programmed much better than Synchron Strings 1. I'm going to delete Synchron Strings 1 off my hard drive now I have the Pro.


----------



## José Herring

dhowarthmusic said:


> I wouldn't waste your money on getting Synchron Strings 1 too. The Pro version has all the same articulations and more of them and are programmed much better than Synchron Strings 1. I'm going to delete Synchron Strings 1 off my hard drive now I have the Pro.


Thx


----------



## method1

@José Herring - I feel the complete opposite as the guy above, the two do not have all the same articulations and complement each other quite nicely!


----------



## doctoremmet

José be like


----------



## method1

As has been mentioned many many times, VSL has a return policy, so there's really no risk involved to check them out and see if they agree with you!


----------



## dhowarthmusic

method1 said:


> @José Herring - I feel the complete opposite as the guy above, the two do not have all the same articulations and complement each other quite nicely!


I'm interested to hear which articulations you use from Synchron Strings 1 that are not included with the Pro version.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Vadium said:


> Could you be so good as to render same passage by new types of legato?


This is a very simple in nature crash test that I did recently with my libraries. few people cope with him. But I'm not sure if this is the right time to study, as this is a baked library and I haven't had much time to master it. Anyway, here's my short audio test, who says something.


----------



## method1

RE: articulations..off the top of my head, legato slurs with and without lyrical vibrato, but you own both so have a look.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

holywilly said:


> I wish one day Synchron Player has numeric parameters (like VI Pro) instead of curve, like I want to trigger portamento at the very low velocity, like 15 and below.
> Other than that, Synchron Player is awesome for multi mic libraries.



Try setting a drastic S curve... I do this to trigger the soft attacks.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I'm in a bit of a quandary. I actually rather like Synchron Strings I. I have the standard version - it's not perfect - but what is ?

I think I'm pretty much sold on the new Synchron Strings Pro Full Library, though I understand there are some more walkthroughs on the way, and there's plenty of time before the intro offer expires...

Anyway, I've just worked out that if I buy the new Synchron Strings Pro Full Library Crossgrade, I could also upgrade Synchron Strings I to the full version for an extra £ 120 or so......

That's quite tempting...


----------



## John R Wilson

jonnybutter said:


> I complained immoderately about BBCSO Core on another thread because of its - for me - poor legato playability. I got Synchron Strings pro about an hour ago. Much better! at least for me. Playable, very good sounding, very controllable. I like the player so far. It's perfect for me because it can be a good sounding base. I have lots of different string colors but I needed a new base set of sounds. Works for me!



I've mentioned my issues regarding the BBCSO legatos playability in some other threads as well. For me it also does not have that good playability. SCS is much better in that regards!! 

Do you think the Synchron Strings Pro will mix well with other libraries such as the BBCSO?


----------



## dhowarthmusic

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> This is a very simple in nature crash test that I did recently with my libraries. few people cope with him. But I'm not sure if this is the right time to study, as this is a baked library and I haven't had much time to master it. Anyway, here's my short audio test, who says something.



Great video. Can you do the violins too? That would be a real test!


method1 said:


> RE: articulations..off the top of my head, legato slurs with and without lyrical vibrato, but you own both so have a look.


Probably the lyrical vibrato is the only legato I would ever use from Synchron 1 but the new multi vibrato in Pro (Same sound as Synchron 1 Cantabile vibrato) is far superior in my opinion. Synchron 1 is 445 Euros and the Pro is only 295 Euros. For anyone considering buying both then I'm not sure if if is worth the extra 445 Euros for version 1 as 2 has most of the same articulations and more. I'm still going to delete Synchron strings 1 off my hard drive now I have the Pro.


----------



## Batrawi

SyS1 legato was controvertial


Sovereign said:


> I picked it up last evening but I'm not sure I'll be keeping it. There's quite a bit which sounds okay to good, but the legatos still just don't do it for me and I disagree with the approach taken. Transitions are barely audible and they seem to be cut as short as possible. While this reduces latency/delay, it IMHO also sucks the life out of it and gives legato playing a midi effect which you can't remedy in editing. VSL should have left more of the interval in, and make the user decide how much ms transitions last (Areia approach). Also somewhat disappointed in the 2 velocity layers, didn't like it in BBCSO and don't like that approach here.


exactly what I wanted to know. thanks! Every developer MUST keep the intervals as they were recorded imo and let us control how much we want to shrink them.


----------



## Vadium

in all textbooks the range of violins is up to g4.

here:
Legato up to d4...
Long up to e4...
Staccato up to g4


----------



## Ben

Sovereign said:


> the legatos still just don't do it for me and I disagree with the approach taken. Transitions are barely audible and they seem to be cut as short as possible.





richhickey said:


> I personally can't abide by the legatos in SyS Pro - that exaggerated legato is not how real string sections sound except on special occasions (and the overlaps - never). VI strings have recorded slow and fast slurred legatos and sul legatos for those occasions, which is how it should be, IMO.


So what is it now, too much or barely audible?

@Batrawi You see what I have to deal with here? 

Like I already mentioned in another context: Just give it a try yourself and see if this library fits _your _taste and style. There is no other risk apart from liking the library and not wanting to return it after 14 days.


----------



## jonnybutter

John R Wilson said:


> I've mentioned my issues regarding the BBCSO legatos playability in some other threads as well. For me it also does not have that good playability. SCS is much better in that regards!!
> 
> Do you think the Synchron Strings Pro will mix well with other libraries such as the BBCSO?



I think they will blend with some other stuff I have. Not sure about BBCSO - not ruling it out, just not sure.


----------



## richhickey

dhowarthmusic said:


> I'm interested to hear which articulations you use from Synchron Strings 1 that are not included with the Pro version.



Different strokes I guess. I wouldn't choose _any_ of the articulations in SyS Pro that _are_ present in SyS 1. I much prefer SyS 1's longs, (Pro's take forever to speak, have few dyns, while SyS 1's can actually perform marcatos and detaches), SyS 1's regular vibrato (Pro's is unrealistically too much, with a weird sound), and SyS 1's legatos (Pro's are exaggerated, with unrealistic overlaps). Etc. SyS 1 sounds more like strings, is much more expressive, while SyS Pro sounds like (typically overly emotive) sample library strings, of which there are better libs.

Until SyS 2 lands (if ever), I will selectively try to plug holes in SyS 1 with artics from Pro, but I'm not hopeful due to the dynamics inconsistency (the dynamics in SyS 1 are meticulously matched across the artics).


----------



## richhickey

Ben said:


> So what is it now, too much or barely audible?
> 
> @Batrawi You see what I have to deal with here?
> 
> Like I already mentioned in another context: Just give it a try yourself and see if this library fits _your _taste and style. There is no other risk apart from liking the library and not wanting to return it after 14 days.



Are you asking me? I love SyS 1, I like its legatos, vibrato etc. These things are relative, so without judgment - SyS Pro's legato transitions and vibrato are objectively more pronounced than SyS 1's. Not enough or too much is obviously subjective. (it _is_ too much for me though)

I think it's great you have a 14-day return window, but we'll still discuss things here if you don't mind, because not everyone wants to drop a couple of hundred bucks to see for themselves. 

I know you've been doing demos recently, so VSL is in control of stopping the speculation/discussion.


----------



## Virtuoso

Hey @Ben - I bought the Standard library yesterday and love it! I'm wondering if I should have got the Full version after all.

If I buy the upgrade from VSL, does the 14 day return period apply to just the upgrade, if I decide I don't need the extra mics?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Ben said:


> So what is it now, too much or barely audible?




A business I was involved with made this unique product. We took it to a major retailer, who said they loved it, but the pack size was wrong and they wanted a three pack rather than a two pack. Then they would stock it for sure.

So off we went and designed new box for a three pack and came back a month later. That same retailer then turned round and said the loved the product, but wished it was available as a two pack.....


----------



## John R Wilson

richhickey said:


> Different strokes I guess. I wouldn't choose _any_ of the articulations in SyS Pro that _are_ present in SyS 1. I much prefer SyS 1's longs, (Pro's take forever to speak, have few dyns, while SyS 1's can actually perform marcatos and detaches), SyS 1's regular vibrato (Pro's is unrealistically too much, with a weird sound), and SyS 1's legatos (Pro's are exaggerated, with unrealistic overlaps). Etc. SyS 1 sounds more like strings, is much more expressive, while SyS Pro sounds like (typically overly emotive) sample library strings, of which there are better libs.
> 
> Until SyS 2 lands (if ever), I will selectively try to plug holes in SyS 1 with artics from Pro, but I'm not hopeful due to the dynamics inconsistency (the dynamics in SyS 1 are meticulously matched across the artics).



Cant you perform Marcatos/detaches with Synchron Strings Pro? Thought their was the new separate detache articulation now included in Synchron Strings Pro?


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Vadium said:


> here isn't needs double down bows or up bows, just bow changes - but I can't hear them in this example, sounds as played on the keyboard, but not strings



This illustrates the inherent difficulty of an exposed, quick demonstration. No problem though! 

At bar 92 in the 4th movement of Beethoven's 9th, a low string section would do their best to clearly define the notes without making noticeable the differences between an up bow and down bow.

_(Also important to point out, for others, that this passage does not start with two quarter notes, but a half note. So if you aren't hearing a bow change on the first note of each phrase, good, because it's a half note.)_



Crank the volume at the timecode indicated in the link to the Chicago Symphony. There is an obvious, conscious decision made here to make those repeated notes as smooth as possible.

_(Tip for others on melody lines like this: incorporate the non vibrato legato patch! Every note the string players play doesn't have to be a wild'n'out vibrato patch.)_

It appears (and Vadium this is not directed at you) that sometimes people have an inaccurate mental picture of what* a string section actually sounds like*. There are countless examples of live orchestra recordings where the strings, (and especially instruments like piccolo or trumpets!) do not sound "real." But they are real, it is just that some people "forget" in that moment to discern what sounds lumpy, or has a synthy tone. On another SSP thread, I posted a video of the actual Jurassic Park recording, with the London Symphony Orchestra, and there are parts that sound absolutely "fake." They are not fake, obviously, but they sound like it.

On top of that, techniques real players spend decades to master on their instruments are easily executed with virtual instruments, not the least of which would be smooth legato transitions from note-to-note.

Some developers create libraries to execute specific musical tasks, as if nailed by real players in a live session. The shortcomings of this are the flexibility to tackle other tasks outside of the library's designated purpose. I made numerous attempts to create a satisfactory recording of _Pictures at an Exhibition_ with a library not release by VSL and it was an absolute nightmare.

SSP aims to tackle nearly every standard-practice melodic or accompanying task, as if executed by players who "nail" it in a live recording session. In keeping with this philosophy, my demos of canonical works apply standardized interpretations and performance techniques, as if successfully executed by a major metropolitan orchestra. This is better than playing poorly to illustrate the "realism."

Regretfully, I cannot promise an errant legato lump will not slip through, over blur a transition, nor a note that doesn't occasionally sound synthy -- even the real orchestras fall short of that level of "perfection."


----------



## Eptesicus

Listening to the demos of this, it is clear VSL learned nothing from Synchron Strings 1

It still remains one of the most disappointing library purchases i have made.

It is quite diffcult to understand what this libary even is as it seems to have a lot of the same articulations as Synchron Strings 1 yet it would appear to be a standalone product and not an expansion?

For example, they both have trills/pizzicato etc so what is the point in doing those again? Or are you just admitting that the first library was rubbish and that you wanted a do over whilst still hoping those with the first library spend MORE money to get the improved version?


----------



## richhickey

There are canned detaches now in pro. The 'marcatos' seem to be the highest dynamic lifted from 1.

My point is that the _longs_ of sys 1 are articulate and dynamically responsive enough to shape these and other arbitrary performances via expression, as one might with a modeling instrument. The longs of pro are not.


----------



## CT

I'm not as immediately turned off by these demos as I typically am when it comes to VSL. It also seems slightly more comprehensive than the original, lacking only _con sordino_ options to provide every reasonably common thing one could ask of a string group (puzzling why _sul ponticello_ stuff would have been deemed more useful). I will leave the passionate musings about VSL's handling of these libraries and general business decisions to others....

Can someone succinctly explain the long note dynamics situation, as I can't really get a clear picture from this thread nor the site itself? Sounds ok regardless, and there are certainly other libraries that maintain great musicality with "few" recorded dynamics. Just curious.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I'm a bit cheesed off actually. 

We are having a new kitchen installed at home and with all the building work and plastering etc I have had to temporarily dis-assemble my 'rig' to make room for such things as kitchen units, fridges etc. The house is completely upside down and I can't find anything I need. Clean socks are a particular sore point at the moment....

It's going to be a week at least before I have a chance to sort it all out and have a serious play with this.....but at least I will have a superior beverage construction experience....


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Eptesicus said:


> For example, they both have trills/pizzicato etc so what is the point in doing those again?



Presumably volume/vibe matching with the new articulations/recordings.


----------



## Frederick

I'm a beginning mock-up enthusiast, who also happens to own a ton of other quality orchestral VI's, but I didn't have any experience with VSL yet. After playing with it for a couple of hours, I give it two thumbs up! What an excellent introduction offer! There's so much life in these samples and I love the tone! So many options and articulations... most of them familiar... and yet it feels like nothing that I already own. 

I've used it in a mock-up project I was working on already - making an alternative version with it and I'm getting a distinct different result, mostly because this lib is organised differently. So far with other libs I was mainly using performance legato while CC controlling vibrato, dynamics and expression. With 8Dio's Century strings I wasn't able to figure out how to use the arcs well, considering that the long notes are longer and dynamics change slower than what the arcs offer. I suppose I'm missing something there, but with SSP I think I can use more of what is baked in, making it sound more emotional and realistic.

This is exactly why I wanted more libs from different first rate companies. If one isn't working out as well as you'd hope, then just try another one. Even if with a little more experience with this lib some things will turn out less favorable, I'm sure there's more than enough here to make this one count.

What more could I possibly ask for? Now I also have the Synchron player, a huge VSL flagship full version string lib and the investment is not all that big compared to alternatives. Wow! Great job VSL!


----------



## Zanshin

John R Wilson said:


> Cant you perform Marcatos/detaches with Synchron Strings Pro? Thought their was the new separate detache articulation now included in Synchron Strings Pro?



With One there is no separate detache, but you can basically play detache with the longs/legatos. One of my favorite things about the library.


----------



## Beans

Michael Antrum said:


> A business I was involved with made this unique product. We took it to a major retailer, who said they loved it, but the pack size was wrong and they wanted a three pack rather than a two pack. Then they would stock it for sure.
> 
> So off we went and designed new box for a three pack and came back a month later. That same retailer then turned round and said the loved the product, but wished it was available as a two pack.....



While I'm personally by no means criticizing SSPro's samples (though the marketing and strategy is... interesting), let's shift this analogy to see where people are coming from. Think about getting a haircut.

"Take a little off the top, please."
(haircut ensues)
"Um, okay, wow... that's a little more than I anticipated."

I don't think we had people saying, "add 15% more vibrato intensity," and whoops, VSL added 20%. Instead, we've got several-to-dozens of people giving mostly vague ideas of what they wanted, with limited vocabulary to describe something that expands beyond basic vocabulary.

I'm not surprised that some people think they missed the mark, just as I'm not surprised that some people seem really happy. I'm interested in this release, but want to wait closer to the end of the introductory period before making a decision, because I really shouldn't buy this and Opus and Infinite Strings, if they're all coming out in the same season.


----------



## Zanshin

Beans said:


> ...because I really shouldn't buy this and Opus and Infinite Strings, if they're all coming out in the same season.



Just get this and IS then


----------



## Ben

Virtuoso said:


> Hey @Ben - I bought the Standard library yesterday and love it! I'm wondering if I should have got the Full version after all.
> 
> If I buy the upgrade from VSL, does the 14 day return period apply to just the upgrade, if I decide I don't need the extra mics?


Yes.


----------



## SomeGuy

method1 said:


> As has been mentioned many many times, VSL has a return policy, so there's really no risk involved to check them out and see if they agree with you!


True but only if you buy from VSL directly, who’s prices are usually higher than other sellers. Perhaps the extra cost is worth the piece of mind for some, but this is why I feel you cannot just tell someone to try it out themselves as some are looking to save every cent they can by purchasing through a 3rd party and therefore have no return option.


----------



## Leo

I have this library only first 38 min and now just discovering (after 1.vi) Violas.

I must say this is incredible work VSL!!! Best violas on market.

This pianissimo, flautando longs, detache, shorts FF - outstanding! (also for vi1)
As the former owner of SS1 (reselling) I was a little worried about buying this Pro.
But just wow!

p.s.
I'm learning to play the cello (real one) also to understand how strings work and at the same time their style of playing. The expectation of some people as it sounds legato is completely unrealistic.
Usually legato is not played on a single string, but in a few tons all the strings are crossed.
The exception is for example Sul G etc...


----------



## method1

SomeGuy said:


> True but only if you buy from VSL directly, who’s prices are usually higher than other sellers. Perhaps the extra cost is worth the piece of mind for some, but this is why I feel you cannot just tell someone to try it out themselves as some are looking to save every cent they can by purchasing through a 3rd party and therefore have no return option.




In that case fudge the system, try from VSL, buy elsewhere ... I get what you're saying though, but at least the option is there.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Beans said:


> While I'm personally by no means criticizing SSPro's samples (though the marketing and strategy is... interesting), let's shift this analogy to see where people are coming from. Think about getting a haircut.
> 
> "Take a little off the top, please."
> (haircut ensues)
> "Um, okay, wow... that's a little more than I anticipated."
> 
> I don't think we had people saying, "add 15% more vibrato intensity," and whoops, VSL added 20%. Instead, we've got several-to-dozens of people giving mostly vague ideas of what they wanted, with limited vocabulary to describe something that expands beyond basic vocabulary.
> 
> I'm not surprised that some people think they missed the mark, just as I'm not surprised that some people seem really happy. I'm interested in this release, but want to wait closer to the end of the introductory period before making a decision, because I really shouldn't buy this and Opus and Infinite Strings, if they're all coming out in the same season.



Yes I’ll be waiting too, but because I won’t be able to use it for a couple of weeks as we’re having some work done on the house, so we’ll see how it pans out in the promised walkthroughs that are on the way. 

As far as VSL‘ strategies - I think the word to describe them is ‘fluid’. I get the impression that BBO has been more successful than they thought, and that has informed their plans going forward - but that‘s just idle speculation on my part.


----------



## John R Wilson

Leo said:


> I have this library only first 38 min and now just discovering (after 1.vi) Violas.
> 
> I must say this is incredible work VSL!!! Best violas on market.
> 
> This pianissimo, flautando longs, detache, shorts FF - outstanding! (also for vi1)
> As the former owner of SS1 (reselling) I was a little worried about buying this Pro.
> But just wow!
> 
> p.s.
> I'm learning to play the cello (real one) also to understand how strings work and at the same time their style of playing. The expectation of some people as it sounds legato is completely unrealistic.
> Usually legato is not played on a single string, but in a few tons all the strings are crossed.
> The exception is for example Sul G etc...



Seems like theirs some really conflicting user feedback starting to come back. Some seem to be really loving it such as yourself and theirs some that are really not liking it.


----------



## Robo Rivard

Hehe, I just finished my first day of work as a character designer on the fifth season of "F is for Family" for Netflix. I will now be able to afford sound libraries again!... I will be able to buy new volumes of BBO as they come out! Cheers! It's nice to feel like a dirty capitalist again! ☀☀☀


----------



## Michael Antrum

Robo Rivard said:


> Hehe, I just finished my first day of work as a character designer on the fifth season of "F is for Family" for Netflix. I will now be able to afford sound libraries again!... I will be able to buy new volumes of BBO as they come out! Cheers! It's nice to feel like a dirty capitalist again! ☀☀☀



Congratulations on the new job ! Nice to see someone getting ahead in these troubled times.....

The great thing about Sample Libraries is they they mean you never have to worry yourself about things like wealth management....


----------



## goalie composer

Robo Rivard said:


> Hehe, I just finished my first day of work as a character designer on the fifth season of "F is for Family" for Netflix. I will now be able to afford sound libraries again!... I will be able to buy new volumes of BBO as they come out! Cheers! It's nice to feel like a dirty capitalist again! ☀☀☀


Side note: LOVE that show! Great job!


----------



## Robo Rivard

Thanks! The reason I posted this here, is that most libraries I bought in 2020 were VSL libraries.

I'm definitely going the BBO/Synchron way! I love everything about the series.


----------



## Vadium

some first impressions:
it seems that pro-version has become more musical in terms of playability. But there is a feeling that the notes on regular legato are "bubble" - inflate unnecessarily. And also something does not work with a simple CC1 to fade notes out - they play quite loudly when CC1=0, I even have to use CC11.. as I remember, in other SY libraries if CC30 (dynamic range) set to 127, CC1=0 works close to Niente, isn't?

This file ("Green Acre" by Blackus) is played on regular Legato, a patch in which CC2 is controlled by a crossfade between regular and intense vibrato.


----------



## José Herring

Vadium said:


> some first impressions:
> it seems that pro-version has become more musical in terms of playability. But there is a feeling that the notes on regular legato are "bubble" - inflate unnecessarily. And also something does not work with a simple CC1 to take notes - they play quite loudly when CC1=0, I even have to use CC11.. as I remember, in other SY libraries if CC30 (dynamic range) set to 127, CC1=0 works as Niente, isn't?
> 
> This file ("Green Acre" by Blackus) is played on regular Legato, a patch in which CC2 is controlled by a crossfade between regular and intense vibrato.


The notes have an expressivo swell to them. You'll have to vary the articulation a bit between this and sustain patch or hold the long notes a little longer until the swell ends. It's a very common thing and kind of reminds me of the old expressivo patches in Sonic Implants Strings.

It's actually quite nice.


----------



## richhickey

Mike T said:


> I'm not as immediately turned off by these demos as I typically am when it comes to VSL. It also seems slightly more comprehensive than the original, lacking only _con sordino_ options to provide every reasonably common thing one could ask of a string group (puzzling why _sul ponticello_ stuff would have been deemed more useful). I will leave the passionate musings about VSL's handling of these libraries and general business decisions to others....
> 
> Can someone succinctly explain the long note dynamics situation, as I can't really get a clear picture from this thread nor the site itself? Sounds ok regardless, and there are certainly other libraries that maintain great musicality with "few" recorded dynamics. Just curious.



This video uses the longs to demonstrate the difference in expression handling of SyS Pro and SyS 1, how having more dynamic layers lets you shape performances in ways turning stuff up and down can't, as well as some weird chatter in the SyS Pro long vibratos.


----------



## Kevinside

what is BBO thanks...


----------



## Robo Rivard

Kevinside said:


> what is BBO thanks...


VSL Bing Bang Orchestra series.





BIG BANG ORCHESTRA - Vienna Symphonic Library







www.vsl.co.at





They have new releases every month, following the alphabetic order. If you are quick enough, you can buy them at a special price. Until the end of september, you can buy the Neptune and Orion woodwind libraries at the introductory price, as well as the percussion libraries Phoenix, Quasar, Dorado, Eridanus, and Fornax.

Dorado is my new first call library for natural sounding ensemble percussions. Fornax is quite unique.


----------



## Lee Blaske

Got it all loaded and spent some time with it, today. Really loving it, especially the agile legato. This is a really deep library with lots of possibilities for customization, but it's pretty intuitive. There's lots of stuff to control, and you really need to work your controllers to pull out the expressiveness this library is capable of delivering. I also really like the soft release option. The Lush Decca Tree preset sounds really good to me. I think VSL really hit it out of the park with this release.


----------



## Lee Blaske

And to echo the comments of another post, the violas in this library are KILLER. So often an afterthought in a lot of other libraries, they really shine here. And the legato is like butter.


----------



## RSK

Lee Blaske said:


> Got it all loaded and spent some time with it, today. Really loving it, especially the agile legato. This is a really deep library with lots of possibilities for customization, but it's pretty intuitive. There's lots of stuff to control, and you really need to work your controllers to pull out the expressiveness this library is capable of delivering. I also really like the soft release option. The Lush Decca Tree preset sounds really good to me. I think VSL really hit it out of the park with this release.



This is everything I was going to say, so we'll leave it at "ditto."


----------



## Ben

John R Wilson said:


> Seems like theirs some really conflicting user feedback starting to come back. Some seem to be really loving it such as yourself and theirs some that are really not liking it.


Overall we are receiving very positive feedback  

Strings often cause very emotional discussions - just take a look at some of the threads here. 
It is great to have a choice, and there are so many string libraries to choose from. 
Therefore I'm really happy to see how much positive feedback we are getting. Thank you all!


----------



## dhowarthmusic

Ben said:


> Overall we are receiving very positive feedback
> 
> Strings often cause very emotional discussions - just take a look at some of the threads here.
> It is great to have a choice, and there are so many string libraries to choose from.
> Therefore I'm really happy to see how much positive feedback we are getting. Thank you all!


It's a great product. I just finished this Rachmaninov 2nd Symphony excerpt (Birdman movie theme) with the new legatos. This is my midi file test piece for new strings libraries to see how they can play a soaring melody and it holds up well. Very smooth in comparison to most other string libraries when playing this theme. 

The first file is with the full orchestra and the 2nd one just the strings without the woodwinds and brass.
I am using the Room mic and Mid mic. It seemed a bit too bright with the close mics in.


----------



## mikeh-375

I'm still on the fence and awaiting the Daphnis and Chloe FULL string part mock-up...  Seriously though, I am troubled by the lack of dynamics in the legato and it is just that one thing that is making me hesitate. I know about the 256 midi steps over 2 patches, but I still need more convincing. I'm am willing to be persuaded though so guys, any more long, tied footballs in crescendo and diminuendo across all instruments and registers would be welcome. Perhaps you could throw in some non-vib to vib cross fading too (ok getting cheeky now).
I love using the VSL app, can anyone tell me if is there's an equivalent for the Synchron Series ?????


----------



## Frederick

Is it bad if I would say that I'm now wishing for an EastWest OPUS edition player that is a complete rip-off of the VSL Synchron Player?


----------



## Batrawi

Ben said:


> So what is it now, too much or barely audible?
> 
> @Batrawi You see what I have to deal with here?


You won't have to deal with any of these "too much" or "barely audible" statements if you gave them the "option" as I suggested


----------



## Vadium

related to 256 steps and usability: how to fade out a note from mf to silence by using these 2 patches and 256 steps if there is only one note in the score?


----------



## novaburst

richhickey said:


> This video uses the longs to demonstrate the difference in expression handling of SyS Pro and SyS 1, how having more dynamic layers lets you shape performances in ways turning stuff up and down can't, as well as some weird chatter in the SyS Pro long vibratos.




I think a lot of people misunderstood Synchron Strings 1, one of the key features that makes them a very good string library was the amount of dynamics it has,

Seems you can be very expressive when a developer goes down this road but I can imagine how difficult it can be for a developer to do this, 

It does make the library more heavy as in demanding a lot more space in you SSD
But it's well worth it if you ask me

When you use Synchron Strings on its own can be hard to appreciate the work thats gone into it but when used with a library that does not have many dynamic layers Synchron Strings 1 does stand out as a very solid library,


----------



## Saxer

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> This is a very simple in nature crash test that I did recently with my libraries. few people cope with him. But I'm not sure if this is the right time to study, as this is a baked library and I haven't had much time to master it. Anyway, here's my short audio test, who says something.


----------



## Saxer

A few legatos... 

SY Pro legato with CC controlled vibrato (non-normal-heavy vib)

SY I Cantabile legato

SY Pro Flautando legato


----------



## Piotrek K.

Saxer said:


> SY I Cantabile legato



SY 1 sounds like something went wrong, sounds odd, esp. 12th second, like broken transition. It should sound that way?


----------



## Saxer

Piotrek K. said:


> ...like broken transition. It should sound that way?


It's a rest.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Sorry, but sounds broken to me heh. PRO sounds much better and smoother in general imo. Plus this harsh attack is pretty neat in there.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Vadium said:


> related to 256 steps and usability: how to fade out a note from mf to silence by using these 2 patches and 256 steps if there is only one note in the score?



I'm pretty sure that generally patches that can run through the dynamic layers down to silence actually use MIDI volume to go to niente, and not an actual velocity layer that's "close to nothing". So, to go to silence, you'd fade out the note with CC11 expression. Expression should be used together with CC1 dynamics anyways, for example to control the intensity of dynamic arcs and at the endings of notes.


----------



## Saxer

Piotrek K. said:


> Sorry, but sounds broken to me heh. PRO sounds much better and smoother in general imo. Plus this harsh attack is pretty neat in there.


It's the same Midi for all three versions. Always a bit unlucky for the exchanged sounds. I played it in with the first legatos.


----------



## John R Wilson

Ben said:


> Overall we are receiving very positive feedback
> 
> Strings often cause very emotional discussions - just take a look at some of the threads here.
> It is great to have a choice, and there are so many string libraries to choose from.
> Therefore I'm really happy to see how much positive feedback we are getting. Thank you all!




Very true, I think i'm just going to get it and try it out for myself


----------



## Vadium

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> So, to go to silence, you'd fade out the note with CC11 expression. Expression should be used together with CC1 dynamics anyways, for example to control the intensity of dynamic arcs and at the endings of notes.


it sounds like string player isn't able to control dynamics himself and needs for a sound engineer for make it by moving faders (in the studio context) or for listeners open/close their ears by hands (in the live concert situation) 

Usually CC11 is needed for larger "strokes" - to build a balance in a group or highlight a phrase. But in order for the withdrawal of separate notes.. there is a CC1 for this

And, if we speak about improoved playability, all dynamic range must be available from only one patch by moving only one controller (CC1) without keyswitching, as well as all types of vibrato must be available by moving only one another controller (CC2, for example). And, if this is possible to assign 3 vibrato patches to slot switching, what to do with different legato - how to merge two patches to control ppp to ff by one CC1?


----------



## mikeh-375

dhowarthmusic said:


> It's a great product. I just finished this Rachmaninov 2nd Symphony excerpt (Birdman movie theme) with the new legatos. This is my midi file test piece for new strings libraries to see how they can play a soaring melody and it holds up well. Very smooth in comparison to most other string libraries when playing this theme.
> 
> The first file is with the full orchestra and the 2nd one just the strings without the woodwinds and brass.
> I am using the Room mic and Mid mic. It seemed a bit too bright with the close mics in.



beautiful.....


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Vadium said:


> it sounds like string player isn't able to control dynamics himself and needs for a sound engineer for make it by moving faders (in the studio context) or for listeners open/close their ears by hands (in the live concert situation)
> 
> Usually CC11 is needed for larger "strokes" - to build a balance in a group or highlight a phrase. But in order for the withdrawal of separate notes.. there is a CC1 for this
> 
> And, if we speak about improoved playability, all dynamic range must be available from only one patch by moving only one controller (CC1) without keyswitching, as well as all types of vibrato must be available by moving only one another controller (CC2, for example). And, if this is possible to assign 3 vibrato patches to slot switching, what to do with different legato - how to merge two patches to control ppp to ff by one CC1?



It's not about the players, but if you're making a sample library, maybe you'd rather avoid recording a few layers of "extremely soft" to "almost nothing" and "even less than that", resulting in more recording time/costs as well as blowing up the sample count/memory footprint for something that really can be done absolutely satisfactory by adding an expression component into the velocity crossfade towards niente? I might be wrong, but I very much assume that this is how it's done in most sample libraries. There's a pp layer and from there on MIDI volume takes over.

This is of course debatable, but I don't think that softening the end of a note with CC1 before the next note kicks in is a good idea. I think it's very fumbly and rarely sounds good. You're of course moving the modweel down gently after the note has reached its peak, but during the very last portion before the very transition from the note ending to the attack of the next note, the modweel should stand still. Otherwise you'd be dropping to the velocity layer below for a very short amount of time, and libraries aren't real musicians. Chances are, you're gonna hear a noticeable change in timbre or a quite perceivable "bump". Then you gotta ramp the same CC back up you just dropped because the next note is coming. More often than not that's a mess. That's why you smooth out the transition via CC11, not CC1.

It's an interesting discussion for sure. I personally don't think that a patch must always be able to run through the complete dynamic range. Nowadays I tend to prefer patches which are a bit more tailored to a specific performance. Emotional Cello/Violin/Viola for example takes this idea and runs with it. For example, if my phrase is in the mf-f range, I don't need neccessarily need the patch to go down to pp. What for? It just makes working with the modwheel more difficult. Same is true the other way around. If I'm truly thinking pp, chances are, I'm not gonna suddenly ramp it up to ff. I'd rather have the dynamic range restricted to the musical idea I have in mind, so I can work within that range with more sensitivity. From this perspective, I like that SyS Pro has more "general" sus and legato patches for your mf and above stuff, but on the other hand offers two very soft ones for the really gentle stuff. Same thing with the short notes, where they separated the ff onslaught from the standard spicc/stacc patches.

"Improved playability" is a phrase I guess. Depends what you mean by that. If it's supposed to mean "load the patch and play with minimum adjusting and second passes", there's libraries that work this way, but I don't think SyS Pro is the library for that. It's a deep library - precise results with precise editing and expression options.

As for going through several vibrato intensities/characteristics within one patch, I doubt that really works well in a satisfactory manner. You can possibly crossfade between "neighboring" states of vibrato - there are xfade setups in SyS Pro for that - but more than that, I think you'll end up with quite syntethic sounding results. SCS for example doesn't really intensify across several layers of vibrato, but actually just switches vibrato on or off, with some kind of masking going on in between so that it doesn't sound mechanical or fake. With good reason, as otherwise you'd have this big ass patch with a lot of layers you can never really transition through in a musical way.


----------



## holywilly

I just realize that SS Pro is so resource friendly, now I can enable all the mics for more lush sound!
I was writing with SS Pro today and I’m absolutely loving it! It’s much easier to achieve the result I want. Bravo VSL!


----------



## Casiquire

dhowarthmusic said:


> It's a great product. I just finished this Rachmaninov 2nd Symphony excerpt (Birdman movie theme) with the new legatos. This is my midi file test piece for new strings libraries to see how they can play a soaring melody and it holds up well. Very smooth in comparison to most other string libraries when playing this theme.
> 
> The first file is with the full orchestra and the 2nd one just the strings without the woodwinds and brass.
> I am using the Room mic and Mid mic. It seemed a bit too bright with the close mics in.


The strings only version sounds even better to my ears!


----------



## daviddln

@Ben: May I ask how long it takes to create a huge library like this one?


----------



## Dietz

daviddln said:


> @Ben: May I ask how long it takes to create a huge library like this one?


I'm neither Ben, nor do I know the detailed schedules of the guys working at Synchron Stage Vienna, but I feel entitled to answer the question in a general way: It takes years. Literally.

It takes years if you take into account the time it needs to gather the knowledge, to develop a concept, to build a studio (or two), to find the proper musicians with adequate instruments, to record hundred-thousands of samples, to check, edit and map them, to invent and code the software which plays them .... and to digest the feedback of people who finally work with them. 

Rinse and repeat for the next instrument section.

8-)


----------



## Ben

daviddln said:


> @Ben: May I ask how long it takes to create a huge library like this one?


Hard to tell. There are a lot of things going on when creating a library. Also most of the times we work on more then one library at the same time, in different stages of completion.
So it is hard to tell (and with the Synchron Strings Pro I don't even know).
Also it depends on the instrument and the articulations you want to capture.
The Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial took 1-2 months, day and night, to record, if I remember correctly, and then you have the mastering, editing, programming, preset creation, and testing.


----------



## daviddln

Dietz said:


> I'm neither Ben, nor do I know the detailed schedules of the guys working at Synchron Stage Vienna, but I feel entitled to answer the question in a general way: It takes years. Literally.
> 
> It takes years if you take into account the time it needs to gather the knowledge, to develop a concept, to build a studio (or two), to find the proper musicians with adequate instruments, to record hundred-thousands of samples, to check, edit and map them, to invent and code the software which plays them .... and to digest the feedback of people who finally work with them.
> 
> Rinse and repeat for the next instrument section.
> 
> 8-)



Thanks for the reply Dietz!


----------



## giwro

daviddln said:


> @Ben: May I ask how long it takes to create a huge library like this one?


Just as a note of comparison - when we sample a pipe organ for Hauptwerk, it can take anywhere from 20-70 hours of recording time to record every pipe (and usually at least 3 samples per pipe - sustain, medium release of ~ 375msec, short release of ~ 125 msec). Noise reduction, splitting, looping, release marker setting of a manual stop can take 1-2 hours for each mic perspective. Then, the XML definition file and GUI graphics must be created. Once that is all done and the beast is loaded, the beta team has to flog it and look for errors... when you have thousands of samples and lots of definition code you _will_ make errors. I can’t even imagine what it’s like with multiple articulations/velocities/dynamics and multiple instruments with differing characteristics... the organ at least has a pretty much steady-state sound (except for modeling the frequency and amplitude rolloff of the swell boxes). My hat is off to anyone who cam make orchestral samples into something useable and even remotely believable.


----------



## daviddln

Ben said:


> Hard to tell. There are a lot of things going on when creating a library. Also most of the times we work on more then one library at the same time, in different stages of completion.
> So it is hard to tell (and with the Synchron Strings Pro I don't even know).
> Also it depends on the instrument and the articulations you want to capture.
> The Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial took 1-2 months, day and night, to record, if I remember correctly, and then you have the mastering, editing, programming, preset creation, and testing.



That's very interesting. Thank you! I imagine that creating legato patches must be the longest stage. I remember Herb talking about this in an interview.


----------



## gst98

Has anyone here using Synchron Pro also got the BBO Lyra or Musca? I tried Appasionata and Dimension strings but I didn't really gel with either, but I loved all the articulations etc... Then I heard Lyra and Musca and much prefered their tone, does Synchron Pro have a similar sound? Thanks.


----------



## method1

gst98 said:


> Has anyone here using Synchron Pro also got the BBO Lyra or Musca? I tried Appasionata and Dimension strings but I didn't really gel with either, but I loved all the articulations etc... Then I heard Lyra and Musca and much prefered their tone, does Synchron Pro have a similar sound? Thanks.



SSP actually has similar sections to Lyra & Musca in octaves included, with a whole lot more articulations, it's a really cool part of the library.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Saxer said:


> A few legatos...
> 
> SY Pro legato with CC controlled vibrato (non-normal-heavy vib)
> 
> SY I Cantabile legato
> 
> SY Pro Flautando legato



I like the tone of Pro more here - thanks for sharing!


----------



## bsntn99

[email protected], any chance of the there being a 30 day demo set up for these. I realize there is a return policy but I have credits with a reseller I want to use and don't want to go through the hassle of buying directly from VSL and then having to go through a return. Thanks!


----------



## John R Wilson

method1 said:


> SSP actually has similar sections to Lyra & Musca in octaves included, with a whole lot more articulations, it's a really cool part of the library.



How is everyone controlling all the different releases and attack setting for the legatos? Are they all controlled via key switching? Say I want to go from regular vib to molto vib, with a soft attack and a normal release, but then on next part say I wanted a marcato attack with a soft release. Would you need to keyswitch between all these different controls?


----------



## holywilly

John R Wilson said:


> How is everyone controlling all the different releases and attack setting for the legatos? Are they all controlled via key switching? Say I want to go from regular vib to molto vib, with a soft attack and a normal release, but then on next part say I wanted a marcato attack with a soft release. Would you need to keyswitch between all these different controls?


PM me your email and I’ll share my presets with you. My presets are able to do what you just mentioned.


----------



## muziksculp

holywilly said:


> I just realize that SS Pro is so resource friendly, now I can enable all the mics for more lush sound!
> I was writing with SS Pro today and I’m absolutely loving it! It’s much easier to achieve the result I want. Bravo VSL!



Are you using Full or Standard version ?


----------



## John R Wilson

holywilly said:


> PM me your email and I’ll share my presets with you. My presets are able to do what you just mentioned.



Just sent PM


----------



## tf-drone

Hi,

so far, I have the synced SE1 + SE2. What do you think, does it make sense to go for SS Pro, or should I better buy SE3-SE7 first? Would SS Pro blend in with SE1 and SE2? Many thanks in advance!

Soundwise, I mostly use the strings, then mallets. I am not as fond of wind isbtruments.


----------



## holywilly

muziksculp said:


> Are you using Full or Standard version ?


Full version, mix preset is “surround to stereo downmix classical”.


----------



## muziksculp

holywilly said:


> Full version, mix preset is “surround to stereo downmix classical”.



Do you feel the extra mics the Full version offers are very helpful to further shape the sound of the strings, compared to if you only had the standard mic options ?


----------



## gst98

method1 said:


> SSP actually has similar sections to Lyra & Musca in octaves included, with a whole lot more articulations, it's a really cool part of the library.



Yes I saw that bit, its just selling me even more on SSP.


----------



## Beans

bsntn99 said:


> [email protected], any chance of the there being a 30 day demo set up for these. I realize there is a return policy but I have credits with a reseller I want to use and don't want to go through the hassle of buying directly from VSL and then having to go through a return. Thanks!



One thing I'll note is that on the consumer side, VSL returns haven't been much of a hassle. You might have a 14-day period AFTER the return before your money is refunded, but otherwise it's very easy.

The bigger issue is that returns are, in my understanding, a more painful process on the business/VSL side. When I've contacted VSL Sales in the past with such a question, they've offered demos directly to me rather than have me buy and potentially return, even if the product wasn't undergoing any current demo offers online.


----------



## holywilly

muziksculp said:


> Do you feel the extra mics the Full version offers are very helpful to further shape the sound of the strings, compared to if you only had the standard mic options ?


I do find the extra mics are very helpful to shape the sound of the strings, especially the room tone of Synchron Stage. 

With all mics enable, the string sounds are not as wet as the libraries by British developer. 

The tricky thing is, you really need a pair of good studio monitor to hear the details.


----------



## muziksculp

holywilly said:


> I do find the extra mics are very helpful to shape the sound of the strings, especially the room tone of Synchron Stage.
> 
> With all mics enable, the string sounds are not as wet as the libraries by British developer.
> 
> The tricky thing is, you really need a pair of good studio monitor to hear the details.



Thanks. I'm trying to decide if I should go for the standard or full version of SSPro. I know I can get the Standard first, then upgrade to the Full version, but I don't mind getting the full version right away, if it makes a big difference in shaping the sound, and getting better sonic results.


----------



## method1

muziksculp said:


> Do you feel the extra mics the Full version offers are very helpful to further shape the sound of the strings, compared to if you only had the standard mic options ?



Yes, I tried for the sake of my credit card to convince myself that I only needed the standard synchron versions but the surround and high stereo mics were too nice to resist, I tend to gravitate towards using the surrounds quite a lot now, they add a nice depth while still having a lot of clarity.


----------



## Beans

muziksculp said:


> Thanks. I'm trying to decide if I should go for the standard or full version of SSPro. I know I can get the Standard first, then upgrade to the Full version, but I don't mind getting the full version right away, if it makes a big difference in shaping the sound, and getting better sonic results.



While it's not quite the same, do you have any other Synchron products? BBO Phoenix, for example, still has a 30-day demo and lists the following mics:

Close microphones
Mid microphones
Main (Decca tree stereo)
Main (Decca tree center)
Main surround stereo
High stereo
High surround stereo
These are listed for Synchron Strings Pro Full:

Close Mic (Mono)
Mid Mic – Front row of Ensemble (L/R)
Back Mic – Second row of Ensemble (L/R)
Main/Room Mic – Decca Tree Stereo (L/R)
Main/Room Mic – Decca Tree Mono (Center)
Main Surround – Stereo (L/R)
High Stereo (3D) – Stereo (L/R)
High Surround (3D) – Stereo (L/R)
This could at least give you _*some*_ idea of their mic'ing for the stage. It's more information than none, right?


----------



## method1

Beans makes a good point, the BBO stuff comes with most mic positions and will definitely give you an idea of the difference those extra mics can make.


----------



## Vadium

muziksculp said:


> I'm trying to decide if I should go for the standard or full version of SSPro.


as variant: you buy now full version, compare mics, and if you will decide to keep a standard version, return full version in 14 days and buy standard?


----------



## Ben

bsntn99 said:


> [email protected], any chance of the there being a 30 day demo set up for these. I realize there is a return policy but I have credits with a reseller I want to use and don't want to go through the hassle of buying directly from VSL and then having to go through a return. Thanks!


Sorry, I'm not sure. I'm currently on vacation and therefore a little bit out of the loop. 
You can ask [email protected]


----------



## Ben

John R Wilson said:


> How is everyone controlling all the different releases and attack setting for the legatos? Are they all controlled via key switching? Say I want to go from regular vib to molto vib, with a soft attack and a normal release, but then on next part say I wanted a marcato attack with a soft release. Would you need to keyswitch between all these different controls?


Default yes, but you can change that to any cc, note velocity, etc.


----------



## John R Wilson

Ben said:


> Default yes, but you can change that to any cc, note velocity, etc.



Ok great, I thought that was the case. So for example you could set the note attacks on the legatos to note velocities.


----------



## ka00

I would love it if VSL did more demos showcasing the sonic differences between mics.

Yes, “buy and try”, I’ve heard that. But I bought the standard from a reseller due to frugality, but am now considering the full library upgrade.

Just want to hear how much “larger” and 3D it will sound compared to just using reverb.

No matter how good the demos, every time I buy a sample library I feel like I’m buying lottery scratchers at the convenience store.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

John R Wilson said:


> How is everyone controlling all the different releases and attack setting for the legatos? Are they all controlled via key switching? Say I want to go from regular vib to molto vib, with a soft attack and a normal release, but then on next part say I wanted a marcato attack with a soft release. Would you need to keyswitch between all these different controls?



I switch the release via Cubase expression map, while the attack types are controlled by velocity. So, in practice, in my expression map I need to specify, let's say, regular vib, normal release, and depending on the key velocity of the played note, the attack is gonna be either soft, normal or marcato/sfz.


----------



## muziksculp

ka00 said:


> I would love it if VSL did more demos showcasing the sonic differences between mics.



Paul at VSL posted on the VSL forums that they will be making a video/s that showcase the mics.


----------



## Ben

ka00 said:


> No matter how good the demos, every time I buy a sample library I feel like I’m buying lottery scratchers at the convenience store.


But with us you can return the lottery scratcher if it isn't a win


----------



## ka00

Ben said:


> But with us you can return the lottery scratcher if it isn't a win



You guys are one of a kind, Ben. Thanks! Keep up the great work!


----------



## José Herring

Wondering if I could bother anybody who has Syspro to do a short demo for me. I've sequenced 16 bars of some fast repetitive strings and would like to hear how Syspro stacks up to what I have already.

Midi file is attached.

Thanks


----------



## method1

José Herring said:


> Wondering if I could bother anybody who has Syspro to do a short demo for me. I've sequenced 16 bars of some fast repetitive strings and would like to hear how Syspro stacks up to what I have already.
> 
> Midi file is attached.
> 
> Thanks



Just staccato arts? I see a couple of the tracks are mod shorts (HWS?) but no CC data so I'm assuming you just want to hear the short staccato patches?


----------



## al_net77

Here a untouched render:


----------



## method1

Here's the same but with surround mics only.


----------



## José Herring

Oh man, sounds amazing. I'm going to post the HS version. Give me your opinions.

I found that HS can do everything that I've heard SySpro can do but I'm thinking maybe Syspro is just a bit more agile, but is it $350 more agile than HS? Hmmmmm......


----------



## José Herring

Once I volume matched the examples, I can't hardly even tell which is which any more. So I think my interest will move on to other VSL libraries like the WW or maybe some BBO.

Thanks for you help guys!


----------



## John R Wilson

José Herring said:


> Once I volume matched the examples, I can't hardly even tell which is which any more. So I think my interest will move on to other VSL libraries like the WW or maybe some BBO.
> 
> Thanks for you help guys!



Would be interesting to see some legato comparisons between HS and Synchron Strings Pro as well.


----------



## method1

I also tried it in HWO in my daw and the HWO shorts are more slurry and less precise in this example, although the HW spiccatto patches were a little tighter than the staccatisimo. 

I also own and love HWO & it's nice to have both, I find they complement each other well, although my experience of that relates mainly to SYS1, since I've only had pro a short while


----------



## gst98

Were the Hollywood String played with the repetition patches? would have thought that would sound much better. But yes would love to see some comparisons of HWS and SSP


----------



## José Herring

method1 said:


> I also tried it in HWO in my daw and the HWO shorts are more slurry and less precise in this example, although the HW spiccatto patches were a little tighter than the staccatisimo.
> 
> I also own and love HWO & it's nice to have both, I find they complement each other well, although my experience of that relates mainly to SYS1, since I've only had pro a short while


I will never say never to another string library I'm just moving on for now to concentrate my final $$$ in my library budget for now to woodwinds and drums. 

I actually like Syspro a lot but I just bought 2 other string libraries and unless it was clearly more agile than what I can get out of HS then I wasn't going to put money down on it. It was a close call. I actually think that the shorts in HS are the weak spot because they've been raised in volume that it's hard to get a good performance out of them. They were programmed in the days of the moster Zimmer trailer shorts and truth be told you have to dig to get to the lower dynamics on it. It's a pia, but it's a pia that I can live with.

My only reason for moving on is that I don't NEED them, but I sure do WANT them. But, it will just need to wait. I have until Nov. 2 

Now I think I'm talking myself back into it!!!

Thanks again.


----------



## awaey

*Synchron Strings Pro: 5 Coolest Features, by Fabio Amurri*


----------



## José Herring

gst98 said:


> Were the Hollywood String played with the repetition patches? would have thought that would sound much better. But yes would love to see some comparisons of HWS and SSP


I'll give it shot but I never really use those. Too weird sounding. I played this with the standard staccatisimo rr patches.


----------



## method1

I just tried the EW rep patches, not really a fan of that time stretched sound here.

I also tried the measured trem with time stretch in synchron and also preferred just using the staccato short patch.


----------



## novaburst

dhowarthmusic said:


> I'm interested to hear which articulations you use from Synchron Strings 1 that are not included with the Pro version.



I not sure if its about content, some things are just made well, i think VSL was on the correct road when they made SS1, they even added more legato and free content, in my opinion its VSLs best, 

i have not purchased the SSpro it does sound great but i feel the heart and soul that was put into SS1 is not in pro its is an opinion. 

i think the public can sway people off there true course, but it is what it is


----------



## awaey

1-*Synchron Strings Pro - Audio Demos


2-Adagio for Strings by Samuel Barber*


----------



## José Herring

nawzadhaji said:


> 1-*Synchron Strings Pro - Audio Demos
> 
> 
> 2-Adagio for Strings by Samuel Barber*



This is good. It does have some problems with the inner parts sounding to static and samply but the melody line is far more expressive than the Syspro demo. 

This demo did show me that Syspro just has a vastly different tone and that alone has me back on the side of I should get this. The worse that can happen is that I return it during the trial period.




novaburst said:


> I not sure if its about content, some things are just made well, i think VSL was on the correct road when they made SS1, they even added more legato and free content, in my opinion its VSLs best,
> 
> i have not purchased the SSpro it does sound great but i feel the heart and soul that was put into SS1 is not in pro its is an opinion.
> 
> i think the public can sway people off there true course, but it is what it is


What path do you think that they abandoned by doing Syspro? Kind of a curious statement.

For me personally I don't have either. I was tempted to get Sys1 but it just never fully sounded right from the demos. On the other hand while Syspro is fairly incomplete as a full library it does have some fairly convincing things about it. Guy Bacos's articulation walk through was illuminating.


----------



## José Herring

Okay, I pulled the trigger. Whew. Talk about a back and forth. This constitutes my first VSL library purchase and my first purchase from VSL aside from VEPro. Which I now feel I should update.

Now I can move on. Did I see there was a sale on Century Brass.....?


----------



## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> Did I see there was a sale on Century Brass.....?


Oh brother. Get Solo AND Ensemble. And @Ben? One man down, one man still to go. Having feverish dreams...


----------



## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> Okay, I pulled the trigger. Whew. Talk about a back and forth. This constitutes my first VSL library purchase and my first purchase from VSL aside from VEPro. Which I now feel I should update.
> 
> Now I can move on. Did I see there was a sale on Century Brass.....?


Way to go Herring! ❤


----------



## novaburst

I think SS1 had a very ruff ride in that there was a lot of negativity about the library and that in it self blinded people from the true quality that SS1 has, so it kind of felt people were just saying negative things just for the sake of it or because the thread was full of negativity and so they did not get to see the true quality of the library. 

being an owner of the library and digging deep into it i feel i understand where VSL wanted to go with it, and i could already see that it would be a tough journey that would need a great amount of time and effort to accomplish what they truly wanted to do and with the public not understanding the VSL vision for the SS1 i feel VSL caved in to pressure and abandon the true vision for the SS1 or at the very least put it on the shelve.

The latest SSpro is a good library, and sounds very good but SS1 feels like a complete chapter.

so if you like SSpro sounds good but SS1 feels good .

You would really need to do something or play something with SSpro that SS1 cant do or at least get close to and i dont think that can be done

After living with SS1 for a few years and still mostly using the vienna instrument you can determined the type of quality of what comes after and i dont think VSL have done better in the Synchron series than SS1

Its just a well put together library and perhaps VSL has abandoned some of the quality's in SS1


----------



## novaburst

José Herring said:


> What path do you think that they abandoned by doing Syspro? Kind of a curious statement.



forgot to quote


----------



## Vadium

John R Wilson said:


> Would be interesting to see some legato comparisons between HS and Synchron Strings Pro as well.


Let's listen to noises on minimal nuance of legato - SyS Pro first (regular legato, standard mics: Close, Mid, Decca and Decca center. Room mix isn't used), then HS power legato slur NI, all 4 mics used, minimal audible CC11 value.. I like that in SyS Pro recorded a quieter nuance than the one in HS, but it looks like it needs noise reduction. Decca Tree mics, for example. Especially if this pp noisy layer crossfaded with ff - it still be audible if CC1= 50


----------



## Casiquire

Vadium said:


> Let's listen to noises on minimal nuance of legato - SyS Pro first (regular legato, standard mics: Close, Mid, Decca and Decca center. Room mix isn't used), then HS power legato slur NI, all 4 mics used, minimal audible CC11 value.. I like that in SyS Pro recorded a quieter nuance than the one in HS, but it looks like it needs noise reduction. Decca Tree mics, for example. Especially if this pp noisy layer crossfaded with ff - it still be audible if CC1= 50


Hmm I'm not sure if that's "noise" as much as SYSP has recorded quieter dynamics and we hear way more of the bow. Strings can sound like that close up


----------



## Vadium

Casiquire said:


> Hmm I'm not sure if that's "noise" as much as SYSP has recorded quieter dynamics and we hear way more of the bow. Strings can sound like that close up


I'm not talking about how the strings sound on pp, but about the noise that is not cut off immediately, but fades out after the performers are no longer playing. You can hear it if will listen to Decca mics (or an example above) in headphones or on studio monitors at a fairly high volume. Also, you can see this noise (it is static, not strings sound depended) on the picture.


----------



## Casiquire

Vadium said:


> I'm not talking about how the strings sounds on pp, but about the noise that is not cut off immediately, but fades out after the performers are no longer playing. You can hear it in headphones or on studio monitors at a fairly high volume.


Aah thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Vadium

as a result, taking into account the concept of using only two layers, where the quiet layer isn't denoised, those people who buy the full version have a lot of noise on the far microphones, amplified and summed each time CC1 rotates closer to the mid values.. it is summed up because when we record a live orchestra, we record the noise once, but when we record each group separately, it is then added up the corresponding number of times.


----------



## jaketanner

Still not convinced I should be paying for Pro, as an owner of SY1...since it's pretty much the same library but better...(minus the dynamics, which doesn't seem to be much of an issue because Pro sounds great). It feels like I am asked to spend $150 more, to get a better SY1...because after I get pro, I may never use Sy1...why would I? Pro has everything and more...what am I missing here?


----------



## José Herring

Having trouble activating it. I keep on getting the error that the license server is down. Is this common for VSL?


----------



## Michael Antrum

José Herring said:


> Having trouble activating it. I keep on getting the error that the license server is down. Is this common for VSL?



Never had that myself....have you updated the elicenser software to the latest version - if I ever have any elicenser issues, it normally ends up being that....


----------



## José Herring

Michael Antrum said:


> Never had that myself....have you updated the elicenser software to the latest version - if I ever have any elicenser issues, it normally ends up being that....


Yes, I updated everything. Can you try and see if the server is down for you? Just pull up the elicenser and press the Maintenance button.


----------



## method1

José Herring said:


> Yes, I updated everything. Can you try and see if the server is down for you? Just pull up the elicenser and press the Maintenance button.



Yes, same here, first time I've seen that in 10+ years of using an elicenser, bad timing ;-(


----------



## José Herring

method1 said:


> Yes, same here, first time I've seen that in 10+ years of using an elicenser, bad timing ;-(


Well I guess it will get sorted soon enough.


----------



## method1

A connection to the license server could not be established, because the license server is currently not available (e.g. due to maintenance work).

Please try again later, or contact your software vendor's support department in case the problem persists.


----------



## mikeh-375

guys, how is keyswitching done? via keyboard notes? My preferred way atm is with the VSL app for the original dry samples, is there an equivalent for SYS or would I have to use a tailored touchOSC perhaps?


----------



## method1

José Herring said:


> Well I guess it will get sorted soon enough.



Seems to be working again.


----------



## José Herring

method1 said:


> Seems to be working again.


Up and playing with it. Yeah, it's good. Pontitello shorts which is what I was looking for. 

Also, seems like I'm going to have to hit the manual. The layout isn't intuitive for me.


----------



## José Herring

It's excellent and seems that VSL rather than xfade between 6 dynamic layers organized it around playing styles. So the lower dynamic is covered by ponticello longs, then when you get up to the upper dynamics you get into the mf-ff range.. interesting.


----------



## José Herring

playing with it some more. It's actually very very good. Can't think of it like a string library that's traditional. You must really dig into the different playing techniques and try to understand what would be good for what purpose. 

It's unique. Exactly what I wanted.


----------



## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> playing with it some more. It's actually very very good. Can't think of it like a string library that's traditional. You must really dig into the different playing techniques and try to understand what would be good for what purpose.
> 
> It's unique. Exactly what I wanted.


Awesome man. You seem to have made some very good / fortunate choices lately. Nice!


----------



## Frederick

José Herring said:


> playing with it some more. It's actually very very good. Can't think of it like a string library that's traditional. You must really dig into the different playing techniques and try to understand what would be good for what purpose.
> 
> It's unique. Exactly what I wanted.



Although I'm just a noob, those are my thoughts exactly!


----------



## gst98

José Herring said:


> playing with it some more. It's actually very very good. Can't think of it like a string library that's traditional. You must really dig into the different playing techniques and try to understand what would be good for what purpose.
> 
> It's unique. Exactly what I wanted.



So do you think it has its place alongside HWS? Do you think they'll work well together?


----------



## Beans

José Herring said:


> Okay, I pulled the trigger.



Standard, or Full? I'm eyeing Full today.


----------



## Beans

gst98 said:


> So do you think it has its place alongside HWS? Do you think they'll work well together?



I don't have SYSP (yet), but I have a fair few strings: EWHO Diamond, Cinematic Studio Strings, Afflatus Chapter 1, Spitfire Chamber, and the strings from BBCSO Pro, Jaeger, Arks 1+2, and maybe a few I'm missing. LCO Strings, for example... just remembered those.

I spent a lot of time yesterday evening playing along with the SYSP YouTube videos using various libraries above to reduce my FOMO. My keyboard skills are atrocious (limited use of my left hand, plus simple lack of skill!), but I got a good idea of what can be mimicked with the above and what complements them well.

Now, there seem to be some things that SYSP does really well, like a deep dig on the staccato ff, that I had trouble imitating.

In other cases, EWHO can get fairly close to the sound of, for example, the SYSP molto vibrato legato. EWHO's ability to crossfade dynamics and vibrato independently is pretty great. The EWHO room sound and size "feels" more dense, more lush, and generally "different" (though I'm sure additional tweaking could get closer than my quick tests), but anyone with EWHO shouldn't feel like they're at some sort of major disadvantage. The shorts can feel a bit limited at times, but EWHO is a fantastic, incredible value.

What surprised me is how well I think Afflatus and SYSP would complement each other. All of these libraries are great, but SYSP + Afflatus Ch 1 would make one heck of a toolkit. Not quite "delete everything else" value, but the possibilities seem grand with those two.


----------



## chemie262

One of the major advantages of the SYSP is the short loading time. It just takes seconds and I can start playing. With EW my template needs 15 minutes to load. And then I have access to "only" 10 articulations whilst SYSP offers many more. Also the CPU load is much less.


----------



## meradium

Saxer said:


> A few legatos...
> 
> SY Pro legato with CC controlled vibrato (non-normal-heavy vib)
> 
> SY I Cantabile legato
> 
> SY Pro Flautando legato



Why are you doing this?


----------



## Saxer

meradium said:


> Why are you doing this?


Haha, good question. I'm configuring some custom patches for my workflow and I just need some content to check the playability. So I recorded a few bars and for the unlikely case someone would be interested I shared it.


----------



## Beans

Saxer said:


> Haha, good question. I'm configuring some custom patches for my workflow and I just need some content to check the playability. So I recorded a few bars and for the unlikely case someone would be interested I shared it.



Definitely interested, in case you have more.


----------



## meradium

Saxer said:


> Haha, good question. I'm configuring some custom patches for my workflow and I just need some content to check the playability. So I recorded a few bars and for the unlikely case someone would be interested I shared it.



You should stop immediately and not share any more  ... Otherwise I might feel forced to reach for my pocket.... The plan was to not do this anymore - at least for this year!!


----------



## Saxer

Beans said:


> Definitely interested, in case you have more.





meradium said:


> You should stop immediately and not share any more


To be on the strings of a dilemma...


----------



## method1

José Herring said:


> It's excellent and seems that VSL rather than xfade between 6 dynamic layers organized it around playing styles. So the lower dynamic is covered by ponticello longs, then when you get up to the upper dynamics you get into the mf-ff range.. interesting.



In case you haven't tried it, you can copy/paste articulations into existing tree structures or initialise the preset and load single articulations from the patch menu, stack them up tutti style or crossfade between them etc, so you can really tailor a lot of stuff to your preference. One of my favourite features in synchron player.


----------



## chapbot

I'm really baffled. I listen to the official demos for this library and I'm completely uninterested. Then I hear simple, raw sound clips from people like @Saxer and really really like the sound of it LOL


----------



## Eptesicus

chapbot said:


> I'm really baffled. I listen to the official demos for this library and I'm completely uninterested. Then I hear simple, raw sound clips from people like @Saxer and really really like the sound of it LOL



Yeh, same. I like Saxer's excerpts. Most of the demos on the website don't do anything for me though.


----------



## John Longley

Eptesicus said:


> Yeh, same. I like Saxer's excerpts. Most of the demos on the website don't do anything for me though.


All the VSL demos are anemic to me, like they have an allergy to low-end. I think they like the violin heavy, ORTF orchestral recording sound and it just doesn't appeal to many of us. I think some new blood doing their demos could be wise.


----------



## Zanshin

John Longley said:


> All the VSL demos are anemic to me, like they have an allergy to low-end. I think they like the violin heavy, ORTF orchestral recording sound and it just doesn't appeal to many of us. I think some new blood doing their demos could be wise.



Yeah you might be right there.

Also you were asking about Synchronized Chamber Strings in the commercial thread. Do some research on the official forums, that was the one synchronized port that apparently didn’t go well. The Special Edition port is much better though, so depending on your needs that is an option for you.

I’m going with Dimension Strings to complement SY1 and SYP as soon as it goes on sale.


----------



## John Longley

Zanshin said:


> Yeah you might be right there.
> 
> Also you were asking about Synchronized Chamber Strings in the commercial thread. Do some research on the official forums, that was the one synchronized port that apparently didn’t go well. The Special Edition port is much better though, so depending on your needs that is an option for you.
> 
> I’m going with Dimension Strings to complement SY1 and SYP as soon as it goes on sale.


Thanks for the heads up, I'll see if I can find the thread. If you don't mind commenting here, what was the major issue with the Sync port?

I would love to go with Dim, but it's a lot more given I have Canadian dollars lol


----------



## Zanshin

John Longley said:


> Thanks for the heads up, I'll see if I can find the thread. If you don't mind commenting here, what was the major issue with the Sync port?
> 
> I would love to go with Dim, but it's a lot more given I have Canadian dollars lol



Like they edited the samples in such a way that it degraded them. One thing to consider is you can put both VI and Synchron version in your cart and it really adds just a nominal amount as opposed to just Synchron. You could fall back to the VI version then ... 

Try Best Service for better prices, also Black Friday and the Holidays are coming soon. Hopefully we’ll get some good sales! Hopefully the value of the euro tanks!


----------



## ptram

John Longley said:


> All the VSL demos are anemic to me, like they have an allergy to low-end.


Go figure - I see it the opposite way! I find that most orchestral music in the film/media, today, is too bass heavy. As much as to be on the border of an addiction. I like the fact that there is still someone caring for the other frequencies as well!

Paolo


----------



## John Longley

ptram said:


> Go figure - I see it the opposite way! I find that most orchestral music in the film/media, today, is too bass heavy. As much as to be on the border of an addiction. I like the fact that there is still someone caring for the other frequencies as well!
> 
> Paolo


Glad they float your boat.


----------



## chapbot

Eptesicus said:


> Yeh, same. I like Saxer's excerpts. Most of the demos on the website don't do anything for me though.


I think it's because they feel the music must be drenched in reverb.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

ptram said:


> Go figure - I see it the opposite way! I find that most orchestral music in the film/media, today, is too bass heavy. As much as to be on the border of an addiction.



Absolutely true.


----------



## chapbot

Zanshin said:


> Yeah you might be right there.
> 
> Also you were asking about Synchronized Chamber Strings in the commercial thread. Do some research on the official forums, that was the one synchronized port that apparently didn’t go well. The Special Edition port is much better though, so depending on your needs that is an option for you.
> 
> I’m going with Dimension Strings to complement SY1 and SYP as soon as it goes on sale.


I'll sell you my SYNCHRON-ized SPECIAL EDITION Volume 5 (Dimension 1) at the special initial release rate. I'll PM you details.


----------



## Zanshin

chapbot said:


> I'll sell you my SYNCHRON-ized SPECIAL EDITION Volume 5 (Dimension 1) at the special initial release rate. I'll PM you details.



I appreciate the offer but I want the full library not the SE version.


----------



## chapbot

John Longley said:


> Thanks for the heads up, I'll see if I can find the thread. If you don't mind commenting here, what was the major issue with the Sync port?
> 
> I would love to go with Dim, but it's a lot more given I have Canadian dollars lol


Zanshin isn't interested, PM me if you're interested in my SYNCHRON-ized SPECIAL EDITION Volume 5.


----------



## Beans

This darn thing has been my cart for four hours, now.


----------



## meradium

Hmm... not sure... mix bag experience here. I mainly compare against my SA arsenal. The tone is completely different. VSL sounds more plain to my ears. Particularly the violins. I love the huge variety of long and short articulations... but the tone... hmmm... I guess comes down to personal preference?


----------



## samuel.beliveau

Beans said:


> This darn thing has been my cart for four hours, now.


Thankfully it’s not ice cream.


----------



## meradium

The soft stuff is really nice...


----------



## novaburst

ptram said:


> Go figure - I see it the opposite way! I find that most orchestral music in the film/media, today, is too bass heavy. As much as to be on the border of an addiction. I like the fact that there is still someone caring for the other frequencies as well!
> 
> Paolo



I think its more of people becoming more comfortable with low end and bass in truth it is the anchor or foundation of your music,

If you sit down or lay down in a quite room you can hear your heart beat a very steady bass sound the stronger the beat the more healthy your heart is boom boom ...........boom boom if you like, all the rest of your life depends on those beats point is its a bass sound, your living is the mids and the highs but it is depending on that heart beat bass.

If that beat stops ........well i guess thats the end of you. and just like in music take away the bass the music gets lost.

if you use a a double bass or use a bass drum ar low register on the cello you need to commit your self and let it be heard or dont use it.

no point in using bass or low end instruments if you cant hear them 

i think in music we tend to pattern it on how we are created using that deep heart beat pulse sound bass that will always be a pert of us.


----------



## John Longley

chapbot said:


> Zanshin isn't interested, PM me if you're interested in my SYNCHRON-ized SPECIAL EDITION Volume 5.


No thanks.


----------



## meradium

If someone with the FULL version finds a second can he or she post a short emotional tune with the Wide Decca Tree Preset (excl. the reverb) and as a comparison one mix with the outrigger mics? On the website i unfortunately cannot find any nice comparison of the different mics...


----------



## muadgil

This library is quite appealing...
I'm in search of my first great string lib (CineString and SStS owner), and was quite settled to go with CSS for Black Friday. But this... I already have VSL WWinds and Steinway and love them.
So doubt is born :-(
Any opinions?


----------



## John Longley

muadgil said:


> This library is quite appealing...
> I'm in search of my first great string lib (CineString and SStS owner), and was quite settled to go with CSS for Black Friday. But this... I already have VSL WWinds and Steinway and love them.
> So doubt is born :-(
> Any opinions?


I don't own SYP or SY1 (yet), but CSS (I do own it and CSSS) is a beautiful product if you can handle the latency, and the amount of vibrato. If you like that very romantic, vibrato heavy (slightly dark) sound, it is absolutely without a doubt fantastic. If those things bother you, avoid.


----------



## CT

John Longley said:


> All the VSL demos are anemic to me, like they have an allergy to low-end. I think they like the violin heavy, ORTF orchestral recording sound and it just doesn't appeal to many of us. I think some new blood doing their demos could be wise.



Yes, have to say I agree with this. And it isn't a question of "classical purity and refinement" vs. "hyped cinematic bass." Any of the classical labels with a more purist approach are in no way lacking in low end. There's a wonderful warmth to a natural orchestral sound which is desperately absent from the majority of VSL's releases, and this mostly has to do with the way sound behaves in an ideal acoustic environment... that is, not the Silent Stage. There's no amount of mixing trickery that can remedy that. In fact, I've found that MIR has kind of an unpleasant sound more often than not.

The Synchron efforts are much more commendable, sonically.


----------



## pinki

Mike T said:


> There's a wonderful warmth to a natural orchestral sound which is desperately absent from the majority of VSL's releases



No, I have to disagree with this.


----------



## Steve Martin

Hi Ben,

I've just had a look at the online manual and the legato patch information. It's only a quick look, but noted from the manual that even though there are two velocity levels for the strings for each legato patch, but what I seem to gather is that there are soft legato patches with two velocity levels, and others with loud and soft, so this kind of makes it more than just two velocity levels, as you can switch between the two soft levels in one patch, and then to the louder level in another patch.

I've just been watching some of Paul's videos, and there appears to be quite a lot of different variations and types of legatos, and these all available from the same player.

So, when you are switching from one kind of legato patch to another, are you still getting a transition note between each legato patch?

Another question - in the sustain type patches, if you lengthen the sustain sample, so that it goes past the beginning of a legato sample, does this give you a note transition from the sustain to the legato one? This used to be able to be done in the older vsl samples libraries, and it was called a "ghost" note technique from what I recall. Sorry, I hope there's not to many questions to answer there.

many thanks,

Steve


----------



## CT

pinki said:


> No, I have to disagree with this.



Ok I'll allow it but just this once.


----------



## José Herring

gst98 said:


> So do you think it has its place alongside HWS? Do you think they'll work well together?


I think they could work well. There is a fair bit of overlap in the patches but there are also a lot of differences. HS is a lot brighter library. Syspro is more airy sounding.

I was a HS only user and it is the backbone of my template. But, recently in getting other libraries like SSS and JXL Brass and now VSL I realize that EWHO is rather bright, kind of dry and very upfront compared to other libraries. That's good in a way as it stops it ever from sounding "synthy".

I'll do some more test and see if they can work well together over the next few days.


Beans said:


> Standard, or Full? I'm eyeing Full today.


Standard. To tell you the truth, once I get past 5 mic positions I can't tell the difference any more.


method1 said:


> In case you haven't tried it, you can copy/paste articulations into existing tree structures or initialise the preset and load single articulations from the patch menu, stack them up tutti style or crossfade between them etc, so you can really tailor a lot of stuff to your preference. One of my favourite features in synchron player.


Thanks for the tip. I think I'll be able to setup some stuff just like I like it. 

I have a lot of learning to do over the next few days.


----------



## Ben

Steve Martin said:


> So, when you are switching from one kind of legato patch to another, are you still getting a transition note between each legato patch?


Yes, it also works for any other non-legato to legato articulations.


----------



## pinki

I do wish the VSL install process was more user friendly. I struggle with remembering that the download needs a huge space but this is not the actual space where the library will end up living. Maybe just me but I end up in a cold sweat installing VSL. 
One tip I've learnt: if you don't use the 'Auto Install' option in the Download Manager the way to install is to go into Applications>Vienna Synchron Player folder and find the 'Installer' app. This will tell you to navigate back to data you just downloaded and point to the installer again. Why this is like this I cannot fathom. Surely there should be an 'Install Now' option in the Download Manager. I digress...back to this wonderful library..


----------



## Steve Martin

Yes, it also works for any other non-legato to legato articulations.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you Ben for your reply. Much appreciated


----------



## meradium

The violins are bothering me here... they seem to have this rather nasal quality to it. I am not sure how to go about it. Take the 1st Vln Legato Molto vibrato e.g. in the upper registers... There is some strange high frequency distortion in my signal... Do other people also experience that? C6 in standard config. But unfortunately not limited to that.... is this "normal"? A shame because otherwise I start to really like some of the stuff in there :(


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

meradium said:


> The violins are bothering me here... they seem to have this rather nasal quality to it. I am not sure how to go about it. Take the 1st Vln Legato Molto vibrato e.g. in the upper registers... There is some strange high frequency distortion in my signal... Do other people also experience that? C6 in standard config. But unfortunately not limited to that.... is this "normal"? A shame because otherwise I start to really like some of the stuff in there :(



In my experience VSL generally tends to preserve the natural frequency range of the recordings. In the case of strings, for cinematic productions they are often "sweetened" and made more "lush" by EQing the nasal and hissy properties - it's mostly 4k -4.7k, also 3k and above, and 8-9k. I find that in VSL Strings, these frequencies are still there and need to be carved out a bit if the nasal qualities of strings are undesired.

This contrast can also be heard demonstrably well in VSLs horn recordings, which mostly have considerably more low end than many other sample libraries. Both the Dimension Horns, as well as the big ass horn sections from the old "Epic Horns" as well as the new BBO Jupiter are way more bulbous and weighty than comparable patches, like the 4 horns from CSB or the 6 horns from SSB Horn Phalanx, which sound more lean and seem to be prepared more "score ready" with less weight and more assertive mids from the get-go. The brassy piercing sizzle of the top-end is also more prominent in VSL samples, which I tend to soften a bit.


----------



## Nicola74

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> In my experience VSL generally tends to preserve the natural frequency range of the recordings. In the case of strings, for cinematic productions they are often "sweetened" and made more "lush" by EQing the nasal and hissy properties - it's mostly 4k -4.7k, also 3k and above, and 8-9k. I find that in VSL Strings, these frequencies are still there and need to be carved out a bit if the nasal qualities of strings are undesired.
> 
> This contrast can also be heard demonstrably well in VSLs horn recordings, which mostly have considerably more low end than many other sample libraries. Both the Dimension Horns, as well as the big ass horn sections from the old "Epic Horns" as well as the new BBO Jupiter are way more bulbous and weighty than comparable patches, like the 4 horns from CSB or the 6 horns from SSB Horn Phalanx, which sound more lean and seem to be prepared more "score ready" with less weight and more assertive mids from the get-go. The brassy piercing sizzle of the top-end is also more prominent in VSL samples, which I tend to soften a bit.


How do you usually equalize dimension brass? I too feel the low end being too prominent...


----------



## ptram

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> In my experience VSL generally tends to preserve the natural frequency range of the recordings. In the case of strings, for cinematic productions they are often "sweetened" and made more "lush" by EQing the nasal and hissy properties


Do you know if there is some EQ presets already included, in SySP, to make the sweetening?

Paolo


----------



## pinki

I'm really glad they leave a more raw sound. CSS never sounded like strings to me due to that lack of brilliance. Of course it's personal preference but it is better to have the frequency there in the first place and cut it than try to boost something not present.


----------



## Frederick

I've added BBO Phoenix and BBO Quasar to my Synchron Strings Pro. It seems to me that both BBO libs together have enough flesh on the bones to act like a more than decent orchestral percussion library and also considering it's only for the introduction price for a few more days. Can't recall ever seeing a high quality percussion library almost 80 Gb big with all the velocity layers in place for only 130 Euros.

That only leaves woodwinds and brass.

I might pick up the synchronized woodwinds when on sale some time considering they have a more than excellent reputation or perhaps BBO will end up having good propositions for brass and woodwinds - as it is, they are too inclomplete for my taste and when added up it's already rather expensive.

Perhaps they will even release a Synchron Woodwinds Pro and Synchron Brass Pro in the future...


----------



## doctoremmet

Frederick said:


> I've added BBO Phoenix and BBO Quasar to my Synchron Strings Pro. It seems to me that both BBO libs together have enough flesh on the bones to act like a more than decent orchestral percussion library and also considering it's only for the introduction price for a few more days. Can't recall ever seeing a high quality percussion library almost 80 Gb big with all the velocity layers in place for only 130 Euros.
> 
> That only leaves woodwinds and brass.
> 
> I might pick up the synchronized woodwinds when on sale some time considering they have a more than excellent reputation or perhaps BBO will end up having good propositions for brass and woodwinds - as it is, they are too inclomplete for my taste and when added up it's already rather expensive.
> 
> Perhaps they will even release a Synchron Woodwinds Pro and Synchron Brass Pro in the future...


It is like I am reading all rationalizatiom behind my current VSL cart! I was thinking along the same lines. Synchron-ized WW may be old samples but are still held in high regard, if not the highest. The thing I “miss” is Synchron Brass or other VSL brass options that cover the plain vanilla instruments, like Strings Pro or WW. Any ideas?


----------



## Frederick

doctoremmet said:


> It is like I am reading all rationalizatiom behind my current VSL cart! I was thinking along the same lines. Synchron-ized WW may be old samples but are still held in high regard, if not the highest. The thing I “miss” is Synchron Brass or other VSL brass options that cover the plain vanilla instruments, like Strings Pro or WW. Any ideas?


Nope, not me. I don't see a solution with what has been released.


----------



## Beans

I've said it before, maybe even in this thread, but I love my Phoenix, Quasar, and Dorado.

Same boat for the other libraries, though. I'm tired of switching between Spitfire Symphony, Infinite, and EWHO for woodwinds. I've been eyeing VSL since the earliest days of their woodwinds.

Brass is the same, I guess, but I'm fairly happy with EWHO, CSB, and Infinite for those. I don't really find myself craving Dimension Brass, for example.


----------



## doctoremmet

Beans said:


> I've said it before, maybe even in this thread, but I love my Phoenix, Quasar, and Dorado.


Yes. These are the ones I’ve put in my (virtual) cart right now for percussion.


----------



## doctoremmet

Beans said:


> Brass is the same, I guess, but I'm fairly happy with EWHO, CSB, and Infinite for those. I don't really find myself craving Dimension Brass, for example


In the same boat. I have Century Brass, EWHO Gold, Infinite Brass and CH Extended, XSample brass, Waverunner Audio stuff. But I think I am going to love that Synchron Player to be honest. So for argument’s sake I’d like to be able to create a package with Synchron Strings Pro, Synchron-ized WW, BBO Percussion and some “affordable” concise bread and butter orchestral brass - not necessarily “just” tutti ensembles. But that option seems to be vacant in Synchron world?


----------



## Beans

doctoremmet said:


> Yes. These are the ones I’ve put in my (virtual) cart right now for percussion.



One thing I noticed about BBO percussion is that I LOVE the sound of them when fairly close and dry, but they lose their sparkle when using more ambient presets. It's had me reaching for more dry companions.


----------



## doctoremmet

Beans said:


> One thing I noticed about BBO percussion is that I LOVE the sound of them when fairly close and dry, but they lose their sparkle when using more ambient presets. It's had me reaching for more dry companions.


Gotcha. I like most of my libraries dry. I’m not often in the “record the room” camp


----------



## method1

doctoremmet said:


> Gotcha. I like most of my libraries dry. I’m not often in the “record the room” camp



If you like 'em dry, check out the VI libraries which can be bought a-la-carte.

As much as I adore the synchronised WW, I still prefer the VI versions in some cases, eg the bass clarinet. This will also count towards your synchronised upgrade should you go that route.
Same goes for some of the brass VI single instruments.

Since I think you have several drier libraries already you should be fine with this workflow.
Just to add to the confusion 

A side observation, since switching out most of my template for Synchron and VI, my cubase projects are MUCH snappier and render faster! Kontakt really seems to slow things down in comparison, so I keep my Kontakt instances in VEPRO now.


----------



## doctoremmet

method1 said:


> If you like 'em dry, check out the VI libraries which can be bought a-la-carte.
> 
> As much as I adore the synchronised WW, I still prefer the VI versions in some cases, eg the bass clarinet. This will also count towards your synchronised upgrade should you go that route.
> Same goes for some of the brass VI single instruments.
> 
> Since I think you have several drier libraries already you should be fine with this workflow.
> Just to add to the confusion
> 
> A side observation, since switching out most of my template for Synchron and VI, my cubase projects are MUCH snappier and render faster! Kontakt really seems to slow things down, so I keep my Kontakt instances in VEPRO now.


Thanks mate! Mind blown


----------



## Frederick

doctoremmet said:


> Thanks mate! Mind blown


"No Anakin! Noooo!"


----------



## Beans

I went ahead and picked this up. Standard edition. I think I'll be okay with that. I might upgrade to Full if nothing else comes out or is announced before the intro price ends, but I'd rather find a new Woodwinds library (or go for the Xsample solo strings, or see what HOOPUS provides, or throw Aaron Venture some money because I value his approach).

Anyway, 15 minutes in, this gives me the "slightly smaller sound than EWHO" that I was hoping for, with some added bite to the shorts. No regrets.


----------



## novaburst

Frederick said:


> Perhaps they will even release a Synchron Woodwinds Pro and Synchron Brass Pro in the future..



Or maybe and hope for a Synchron Player Pro, as we do have a Vienna instrument Pro, plus the free version and a Vienna Ensemble Pro, plus the free version so can only hope for a Synchron player pro maybe in blue to match the other pro software.


----------



## meradium

Is it possible that the humanization amount tuning slider just adds tremendous amounts of digital jitter or distortion???


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

The Full version of Synch. Strings Pro offers eight mic options, it has four additional mics compared to the Standard version .

The Additional Mics in the Full version are :

* Back Mic 2nd Row of Ensemble (L/R)
* Main Surround Stereo (L/R)
* High Stereo (3D) - Stereo (L/R)
* High Surround (3D) - Stereo (L/R)

These are mostly mics that are positioned further away from the orchestra, for surround, and a back mic in the second row of the ensemble. They most likely capture more of the Synchron Stage Ambient characteristics).

Any feedback on how much more fullness, depth, or any other characteristics these additional mics offer when used would be helpful to know about from Synch Strings Pro (Full version) users. i.e. Are you using these additional mics frequently ? How useful are they ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Ben

meradium said:


> Is it possible that the humanization amount tuning slider just adds tremendous amounts of digital jitter or distortion???


It should not. If so please send additional information like audio-engine bit-depth, sample rate, audio interface buffer size, DAW +version, OS +version, demo-project and screenshots / audio example to [email protected] and we'll take a look at what can be done.


----------



## Chungus

@Ben Is there any chance the Synchron player will be made multi-timbral in the future?


----------



## muziksculp

ka00 said:


> I am going with a combination of Close, Mid and just a touch of Main Surround.
> 
> I might revisit the other mics at some later point, but I’m proceeding to set up my template with only these three mics loaded and routed.



Hi @ka00 ,

Thanks for the helpful feedback.

So, you decided to use three mic options in your template, Close, Mid, and Main Surround. Did you compare this to using Close, Mid, and Main Room (Tree) Mics (which are all in the standard version), is there a big difference ?


----------



## pinki

Wow 
cc Xfade Normal to Harmonics- heavenly, beautiful


----------



## Ben

Chungus said:


> @Ben Is there any chance the Synchron player will be made multi-timbral in the future?


There are currently no plans for this. 
But you can "make" the player multi-timbral by hosting it in the free Vienna Ensemble. If you don't see it in your MyVSL download area, please send a mail to [email protected] and they will provide you with a free copy.


----------



## Ben

pinki said:


> Wow
> cc Xfade Normal to Harmonics- heavenly, beautiful


Yes, I liked them as well. I also created a custom XF articulation crossfading between normal and harmonics with the same tone, normal tremolo and harmonics tremolo, ponticello tremolo and harmonics tremolo.
Most of this is not really playable by a real orchestra but sounds too beautiful to not play around with it imo.
You can create these easily by copy pasting the cells via right click at any level.


----------



## doctoremmet

I have to say I like the enthusiasm and the hardcore information exchange in this thread. Just a (very positive) observation I want to share. Kudos for the forum members - including @Ben!

“*Ben Syn Chron Obi*”
“_the GAS inducing power is strong with this one”




_


----------



## muziksculp

ka00 said:


> For me personally, I think I probably could have gotten a sound I liked with the standard library.
> 
> I find, unlike some other string libraries I own, the sound character of the additional mics have more in common than they have obvious differences. Maybe someone working in 5.1 or with more mixing experience could do more with them.



Thanks. I'm only working in Stereo. 

So, I'm most likely going to get the Standard version, and if for any reason I think that having the Surround mics is important, I can upgrade to the Full version. I'm also looking forward to the VSL video that focuses more on the Synchron Strings Pro Mic options, which might be released soon, not sure when.


----------



## ka00

muziksculp said:


> I'm also looking forward to the VSL video that focuses more on the Synchron Strings Pro Mic options



Yes, and maybe others who’ve made the additional mics shine can contribute some insight and examples to provide another viewpoint.


----------



## jaketanner

I know this is about SSP...but if anyone has SY1, here is a custom patch I made. I did it for all strings, but here is the Violin 1...wanted an opinion on the sound, versus the default.


----------



## pinki

Ben said:


> Yes, I liked them as well. I also created a custom XF articulation crossfading between normal and harmonics with the same tone, normal tremolo and harmonics tremolo, ponticello tremolo and harmonics tremolo.
> Most of this is not really playable by a real orchestra but sounds too beautiful to not play around with it imo.
> You can create these easily by copy pasting the cells via right click at any level.



Of course, I didn't think.. I can make my own...


----------



## method1

I use the surrounds often, I wouldn't want to be without them or the high stereo. 
They add depth & width, it's really nice to have the additional perspectives, as well as the extra volume when you need it.


----------



## muziksculp

method1 said:


> I use the surrounds often, I wouldn't want to be without them or the high stereo.
> They add depth & width, it's really nice to have the additional perspectives, as well as the extra volume when you need it.



Hehe... Now you got me re-considering my initial decision to just get the Standard version


----------



## method1

My apologies.
I wouldn't say Pro full is a must have, but I'd also say Pro full is a must have.. if you know what I mean


----------



## muziksculp

method1 said:


> My apologies.
> I wouldn't say Pro full is a must have, but I'd also say Pro full is a must have.. if you know what I mean



Did you have to post that ? 

Just joking... Well, kind of a tough decision, but I'm thinking this is VSL Synchron Strings Pro, the corner stone of the Synchron Orchestra, and most likely a library I will use quite a bit, it will make sense to have the most comprehensive version possible, It would have been a different story if I was buying Synchron Woodwinds Pro, or Brass Pro, or even Synchron Strings Pro II (Sordino) whenever that's released. I would have settled for the Standard version of those libraries. 

OK, I caved in... I'm getting the Pro version. Also ... My GAS level this month has been dangerously high, and I don't see it getting any better in the next few months


----------



## method1

My first synchron library was standard, then I tried the full version of the same library & got hooked, now I can't go back to standard on any synchron release... congrats and commiserations!


----------



## Beans

muziksculp said:


> My GAS level this month has been dangerously high, and I don't see it getting any better in the next few months



Do what I did and take a three-year break from these boards after you stock up. I only checked a few developer web sites here and there, which totally caused me to miss the start of Aaron Venture's work, as an example. But I saved a lot of money and angst.


----------



## muziksculp

method1 said:


> My first synchron library was standard, then I tried the full version of the same library & got hooked, now I can't go back to standard on any synchron release... congrats and commiserations!



If I may ask you, what Reverb/s are you using with Synchron Strings Pro ?


----------



## method1

muziksculp said:


> If I may ask you, what Reverb/s are you using with Synchron Strings Pro ?



As of right now, very little of anything. A very light touch of cinematic rooms or R4 for a bit of glue overall.

At the moment I'm working on stuff for the "small screen" and the baked in room tone is enough for my current application.

I have some film work coming up and just started toying with with a combo of SYS1/Pro, some SYzd stuff and HWO for that project, and I'm quite liking EW Spaces II to glue those together. Also Vienna Suite Pro reverb has a very cool synchron specific preset that 's probably going to stay in the template.


----------



## muziksculp

method1 said:


> As of right now, very little of anything. A very light touch of cinematic rooms or R4 for a bit of glue overall.
> 
> At the moment I'm working on stuff for the "small screen" and the baked in room tone is enough for my current application.
> 
> I have some film work coming up and just started toying with with a combo of SYS1/Pro, some SYzd stuff and HWO for that project, and I'm quite liking EW Spaces II to glue those together. Also Vienna Suite Pro reverb has a very cool synchron specific preset that 's probably going to stay in the template.



Hi @method1, and Thank You again for your helpful feedback.

I watched this video, which very briefly shows the mic options of Synch. Strings Pro, I have the video cued to play at that point.


----------



## muziksculp

I found another video that shows the various mic presets of the Synch. Strings Pro (Full Version).

Also noticed how wonderful the new Legatos of Synchron Strings Pro sound. They got it right this time around.


----------



## thomasjdev

method1 said:


> I use the surrounds often, I wouldn't want to be without them or the high stereo.
> They add depth & width, it's really nice to have the additional perspectives, as well as the extra volume when you need it.


A little off topic but thinking in terms of using other VSL libraries that have only standard mic positions. What techniques can you use to add some of the fullness provided? Would something like MIR Pro help in that area? I know it wouldn’t be perfect but since the full editions equal a lot extra $ and disk space I wanted be selective on which libraries I get the full version of.


----------



## Beans

muziksculp said:


> I found another video that shows the various mic presets of the Synch. Strings Pro (Full Version).




This video has 95% convinced me that Standard is the way to stay for me.


----------



## Zanshin

Beans said:


> This video has 95% convinced me that Standard is the way to stay for me.



I’m 100% happy with standard along with 7th Heaven Pro/CR Pro reverb


----------



## muziksculp

To my ears, the Surrounds add a bit of more fullness, and lushness/smoother feel to the mix. 

I agree, they are not a game changer, but an added luxury if needed. That's the tough part of choosing to buy the Full version.


----------



## muziksculp

Zanshin said:


> I’m 100% happy with standard along with 7th Heaven Pro/CR Pro reverb



Interesting, I'm using the Standard version of Cinematic Rooms, and was thinking of updating to Pro version, the cost of the upgrade is $199. So, I was debating if I should stick to using CR Standard, and buy Synch. String Pro Full, or go for CR Pro Upgrade, and just get Synch. Strings Pro Standard. Not the easiest decision for me.

I'm also curious if Cinematic Rooms upgrade will go on sale on BF ?


----------



## Zanshin

muziksculp said:


> Interesting, I'm using the Standard version of Cinematic Rooms, and was thinking of updating to Pro version, the cost of the upgrade is $199. So, I was debating if I should stick to using CR Standard, and buy Synch. String Pro Full, or go for CR Pro Upgrade, and just get Synch. Strings Pro Standard. Not the easiest decision for me.
> 
> I'm also curious if Cinematic Rooms upgrade will go on sale on BF ?



Yeah I can’t tell you what will be best for you except that I will say CR Pro is worth it over standard, so many more presets and the extra options are hella useful.


----------



## ptram

thomasjdev said:


> A little off topic but thinking in terms of using other VSL libraries that have only standard mic positions. What techniques can you use to add some of the fullness provided? Would something like MIR Pro help in that area?


Yes, MIR PRO. A simulation is not like the real thing, but it works great. With it, you get the equivalent of the close (direct signal), main (main mic) and surround (2nd mic) mic sets.

The simulated miking technique is however the EMI, rather than the Decca.

Paolo


----------



## method1

thomasjdev said:


> A little off topic but thinking in terms of using other VSL libraries that have only standard mic positions. What techniques can you use to add some of the fullness provided? Would something like MIR Pro help in that area? I know it wouldn’t be perfect but since the full editions equal a lot extra $ and disk space I wanted be selective on which libraries I get the full version of.



As far as Synchron goes I'm fortunately not in that position!

With synchronized eg dimension strings or woodwinds the included impulse responses get you into the ballpark, adjusting the mix % on the impulse responses to approximate the depth and I use some external delays and also panning inside the synchron mixer to increase the stereo width and thickness to approximate the surrounds. The cubase surround mixerdelay sometimes works well in stereo to widen things a bit.

Mainly I pair my VSL stuff with HWO which can feel wider because the way it's mixed you hear more of the room sound coming out of the opposite channel, you can get a similar effect using some of the above techniques, depends what you're after but I don't stick to strict panning of instruments especially in less dense arrangements, its nice to use the internal Synchron panners to fill out the stereo field.

With the VI stuff I use MIR sometimes. As Paolo mentioned above using the 2nd microphones in MIR really helps.

I don't really have a fixed strategy, but the stuff I end up using most often other than what I've mentioned is 2C Precedence, just for positioning, sometimes in combination with MIR. Occasionally I'll pair precedence with breeze2.

Cinematic rooms pro, the character section is very useful here, tweaking the depth and dispersion pattern really helps matching certain reverb characteristics.

Vienna Suite Pro reverb - comes with a lot of VSL specific presets which are useful starting points.

R4 & EW Spaces II.


----------



## Arbee

Thanks everyone for sharing some of the other videos that are appearing. For some reason I wasn't convinced at all by most of the official demos on the VSL site, but what I'm starting to hear elsewhere (particularly the closer mics) really has my attention. My wallet is getting nervous, especially as I haven't moved across to the synchron player yet either.


----------



## José Herring

method1 said:


> As far as Synchron goes I'm fortunately not in that position!
> 
> With synchronized eg dimension strings or woodwinds the included impulse responses get you into the ballpark, adjusting the mix % on the impulse responses to approximate the depth and I use some external delays and also panning inside the synchron mixer to increase the stereo width and thickness to approximate the surrounds. The cubase surround mixerdelay sometimes works well in stereo to widen things a bit.
> 
> Mainly I pair my VSL stuff with HWO which can feel wider because the way it's mixed you hear more of the room sound coming out of the opposite channel, you can get a similar effect using some of the above techniques, depends what you're after but I don't stick to strict panning of instruments especially in less dense arrangements, its nice to use the internal Synchron panners to fill out the stereo field.
> 
> With the VI stuff I use MIR sometimes. As Paolo mentioned above using the 2nd microphones in MIR really helps.
> 
> I don't really have a fixed strategy, but the stuff I end up using most often other than what I've mentioned is 2C Precedence, just for positioning, sometimes in combination with MIR. Occasionally I'll pair precedence with breeze2.
> 
> Cinematic rooms pro, the character section is very useful here, tweaking the depth and dispersion pattern really helps matching certain reverb characteristics.
> 
> Vienna Suite Pro reverb - comes with a lot of VSL specific presets which are useful starting points.
> 
> R4 & EW Spaces II.


Fascinated by this conversation. 

In truth I have never found more than 4 or 5 mic positions to be of any use to me at all, but now you're convincing me to take another listen. I guess that the upgrade is in my near future.


----------



## thomasjdev

method1 said:


> As far as Synchron goes I'm fortunately not in that position!
> 
> With synchronized eg dimension strings or woodwinds the included impulse responses get you into the ballpark, adjusting the mix % on the impulse responses to approximate the depth and I use some external delays and also panning inside the synchron mixer to increase the stereo width and thickness to approximate the surrounds. The cubase surround mixerdelay sometimes works well in stereo to widen things a bit.
> 
> Mainly I pair my VSL stuff with HWO which can feel wider because the way it's mixed you hear more of the room sound coming out of the opposite channel, you can get a similar effect using some of the above techniques, depends what you're after but I don't stick to strict panning of instruments especially in less dense arrangements, its nice to use the internal Synchron panners to fill out the stereo field.
> 
> With the VI stuff I use MIR sometimes. As Paolo mentioned above using the 2nd microphones in MIR really helps.
> 
> I don't really have a fixed strategy, but the stuff I end up using most often other than what I've mentioned is 2C Precedence, just for positioning, sometimes in combination with MIR. Occasionally I'll pair precedence with breeze2.
> 
> Cinematic rooms pro, the character section is very useful here, tweaking the depth and dispersion pattern really helps matching certain reverb characteristics.
> 
> Vienna Suite Pro reverb - comes with a lot of VSL specific presets which are useful starting points.
> 
> R4 & EW Spaces II.


Thank you & Paolo as well for helping answer my question! Gave me a lot of ideas to play with and see what I like.


----------



## jaketanner

muziksculp said:


> Interesting, I'm using the Standard version of Cinematic Rooms, and was thinking of updating to Pro version, the cost of the upgrade is $199. So, I was debating if I should stick to using CR Standard, and buy Synch. String Pro Full, or go for CR Pro Upgrade, and just get Synch. Strings Pro Standard. Not the easiest decision for me.
> 
> I'm also curious if Cinematic Rooms upgrade will go on sale on BF ?


I went from standard to Pro for CR...it's a lot more flexible for sure. All depends on how much tweaking you usually do to reverbs. In this case though, it can sculpt you a room that is unique to your needs. You start with one of many presets...then can create a room that can be your signature sound.

I am pretty sure that I did not pay $199 to upgrade...got it on sale. Also, you get a small discount for each library you own from Liquidsonics.


----------



## synergy543

José Herring said:


> In truth I have never found more than 4 or 5 mic positions to be of any use to me at all, but now you're convincing me to take another listen. I guess that the upgrade is in my near future.


José, since you have the full version I believe, try out the various preset mixes for comparison (such as the wide surround to stereo mix) and notice not only the effects of the additional mics but how they are panned , the combinations, and their balances. With these, you can get quite a bit of additional spaciousness and depth. Adjust and spice to taste. What is nice about the numerous presets VSL provides is you can quickly recall these on any other instruments as well. This is a huge time-saver over having to balance your own mic mixes for each instrument. This way, you can focus more on the musical interpretation and still have your cake too.


----------



## José Herring

synergy543 said:


> José, since you have the full version I believe, try out the various preset mixes for comparison (such as the wide surround to stereo mix) and notice not only the effects of the additional mics but how they are panned , the combinations, and their balances. With these, you can get quite a bit of additional spaciousness and depth. Adjust and spice to taste. What is nice about the numerous presets VSL provides is you can quickly recall these on any other instruments as well. This is a huge time-saver over having to balance your own mic mixes for each instrument. This way, you can focus more on the musical interpretation and still have your cake too.


I just got standard. I got it because I'm still downloading mic positions on libraries I got months ago because I honestly don't know what to do with 16 mic positions.

But, I'm curious enough that I'm taking a look at the full version. Hopefully there's an upgrade path.


----------



## José Herring

So I just looked and I can get the extra mics for not too much more. I'm going to do it this week to see what I'm missing.


----------



## synergy543

José Herring said:


> I just got standard. I got it because I'm still downloading mic positions on libraries I got months ago because I honestly don't know what to do with 16 mic positions.
> 
> But, I'm curious enough that I'm taking a look at the full version. Hopefully there's an upgrade path.


Well, the same ideas apply to standard as well. You can create and save your own mic mixes or just use the presets. I usually would prefer more articulations over mics but VSL gives you both. You could probably come quite close to the effects of additional mics with standard and careful reverb settings (VSL Hybrid or Miracle, Cinematic Room, Lexicon Random, and Relab 480 all work well) but I do like the additional mic mix options.

If you have PluginAlliance plugins (I thought I remember you mentioning these as well but maybe I'm getting old?), you should experiment with the width settings (Shadow Hills), and MS settings (Elysia) as you can achieve some very useful effects combining those as well. The VSL Imager Pro or Waves C1 are also useful if not overused. Many ways to achieve similar results so experiment with what you have.


----------



## Erik

Hi, herewith 2 user demo's. Source: an own arrangement for string orchestra of Cancion No.6 by the Catalan composer Federico Mompou.
The first version is with the (full) surround to classical mix, the second with Close Room (standard).

I hope you'll like this wonderful piece and that it gives you a bit of insight in the difference between standard and full.

Used plugin's: a bit of Toneboosters Ferox, Phoenix verb and Ozone. But only to get the sound I wanted here.

So far many positive feelings about these strings, they work very well in many genres. I'll post another piece in due course.


----------



## muziksculp

jaketanner said:


> I went from standard to Pro for CR...it's a lot more flexible for sure. All depends on how much tweaking you usually do to reverbs. In this case though, it can sculpt you a room that is unique to your needs. You start with one of many presets...then can create a room that can be your signature sound.
> 
> I am pretty sure that I did not pay $199 to upgrade...got it on sale. Also, you get a small discount for each library you own from Liquidsonics.



Thanks for the helpful feedback.

The upgrade price from CR Standard to Pro is $199. , I even tried using their voucher system to see if I can apply the 20% discount to upgrade from Stand. to Pro, but that didn't work, I emailed them thinking there is an issue, they emailed me back telling me that the voucher is only good to purchase another product line, not an upgrade from the same product.  Kind of an odd policy. They might have a sale on BF, but I'm not sure.


----------



## muziksculp

Erik said:


> Hi, herewith 2 user demo's. Source: an own arrangement for string orchestra of Cancion No.6 by the Catalan composer Federico Mompou.
> The first version is with the (full) surround to classical mix, the second with Close Room (standard).
> 
> I hope you'll like this wonderful piece and that it gives you a bit of insight in the difference between standard and full.
> 
> Used plugin's: a bit of Toneboosters Ferox, Phoenix verb and Ozone. But only to get the sound I wanted here.
> 
> So far many positive feelings about these strings, they work very well in many genres. I'll post another piece in due course.



Thanks for posting the two demos. 

I can hear a silkier, lusher, and even warmer timbre of strings in the surround (full) version, compared to the close room (standard) version. Maybe that can be simulated with some dsp using the standard version, but this can get tricky, and time consuming to achieve, so having the surround mics in the full version is very nice, and handy to have.


----------



## method1

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for posting the two demos.
> 
> I can hear a silkier, lusher, and even warmer timbre of strings in the surround (full) version, compared to the close room (standard) version. Maybe that can be simulated with some dsp using the standard version, but this can get tricky, and time consuming to achieve, so having the surround mics in the full version is very nice, and handy to have.



I agree, the extra mics add a lot, and it's not particularly subtle either imo. 

Conventional wisdom around here says that mic positions cannot be truly recreated with reverbs, and dry samples will never sound as real as wet ones, so give us more mic positions! 

Now we have wet samples and the question is can we make them wetter with reverbs so we can cut down on the mic positions, welcome to VI Control


----------



## jaketanner

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the helpful feedback.
> 
> The upgrade price from CR Standard to Pro is $199. , I even tried using their voucher system to see if I can apply the 20% discount to upgrade from Stand. to Pro, but that didn't work, I emailed them thinking there is an issue, they emailed me back telling me that the voucher is only good to purchase another product line, not an upgrade from the same product.  Kind of an odd policy. They might have a sale on BF, but I'm not sure.


Damn that sucks. Sorry...I am sure sales will come up again.


----------



## Zanshin

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for posting the two demos.
> 
> I can hear a silkier, lusher, and even warmer timbre of strings in the surround (full) version, compared to the close room (standard) version. Maybe that can be simulated with some dsp using the standard version, but this can get tricky, and time consuming to achieve, so having the surround mics in the full version is very nice, and handy to have.



I'd like to point out these two mic presets are not that comparable. Something from Standard like "ClassicRoom" or "ClassicDecca" would be a closer comparison than "CloseRoom".

Edit: They are good demos in and of themselves though, I just don't think they should be used to compare what is possible with Standard vs Full.


----------



## Beans

Zanshin said:


> I'd like to point out these two mic presets are not that comparable. Something from Standard like "ClassicRoom" or "ClassicDecca" would be a closer comparison than "CloseRoom".



You beat me to it by a few minutes! As seen in the ArcanaShift Music video, there are several other presets that would more closely mimic the "Surround" density with only the Standard mics.

They're not going to be exactly the same, of course, but the Close Room comparison is potentially misleading (despite what I'm sure was a genuine attempt to be helpful).


----------



## muziksculp

Zanshin said:


> I'd like to point out these two mic presets are not that comparable. Something from Standard like "ClassicRoom" or "ClassicDecca" would be a closer comparison than "CloseRoom".



OK. I made up my mind. 

I just purchased the Full version of Synch. Strings Pro. I really think that the additional mics do make a difference. Are they a must have ? No surely not, are they an important bonus feature to have, imho. Yes. At the expense of more SSD space, and $$$. But this is a very important library for me, and I would feel better by having the best version I can that's on offer. I think that's the bottom line for me, having more mics to mix the sound to taste is an important detail. If this was Brass or Woods, I would have settled for less mics, and got the Standard version. 

Now I have to decide if I will upgrade my Cinematic Rooms Standard to Pro.


----------



## method1

@muziksculp - nice! Enjoy the library. 
Liquidsonics does have regular sales, I think last BF was 40% off.


----------



## Zanshin

muziksculp said:


> OK. I made up my mind.
> 
> I just purchased the Full version of Synch. Strings Pro. I really think that the additional mics do make a difference. Are they a must have ? No surely not, are they an important bonus feature to have, imho. Yes. At the expense of more SSD space, and $$$. But this is a very important library for me, and I would feel better by having the best version I can that's on offer. I think that's the bottom line for me, having more mics to mix the sound to taste is an important detail. If this was Brass or Woods, I would have settled for less mics, and got the Standard version.
> 
> Now I have to decide if I will upgrade my Cinematic Rooms Standard to Pro.



Haha awesome  Report back when you get a chance to play with it!


----------



## Zanshin

method1 said:


> @muziksculp - nice! Enjoy the library.
> Liquidsonics does have regular sales, I think last BF was 40% off.



Also, you are going to see private sales of it coming up starting today-ish too. The 90 day lock on the iLok transfer will open up.


----------



## José Herring

Erik said:


> Hi, herewith 2 user demo's. Source: an own arrangement for string orchestra of Cancion No.6 by the Catalan composer Federico Mompou.
> The first version is with the (full) surround to classical mix, the second with Close Room (standard).
> 
> I hope you'll like this wonderful piece and that it gives you a bit of insight in the difference between standard and full.
> 
> Used plugin's: a bit of Toneboosters Ferox, Phoenix verb and Ozone. But only to get the sound I wanted here.
> 
> So far many positive feelings about these strings, they work very well in many genres. I'll post another piece in due course.


I like them both A LOT... But, I do hear that it's good to have a choice. I'm convinced to get the extra mic positions but I have to setup some external HD first.

Thanks for doing this.


----------



## muziksculp

method1 said:


> @muziksculp - nice! Enjoy the library.
> Liquidsonics does have regular sales, I think last BF was 40% off.



Hi @method1,

Thanks for the feedback. 

I might just wait for their BF 40% discount. I think the Standard version is pretty good, even if it doesn't give me all the customization tools, I can always insert an EQ after the Reverb to tweak it a bit more. I also have Exponential Audio's R4, which sounds very good, and can be customized quite a bit. 

I'm looking forward to download Synch. Strings Pro (full), and begin discovering it. 

I have quite a few of the older VSL VI-Pro based strings, which only offer one mic option, so using Synchron Player, and the multi-mics that Synch. Strings Pro (full) offers is going to be a new, and luxurious environment to work in. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp

Zanshin said:


> The 90 day lock on the iLok transfer will open up.



Not sure what that is about ?


----------



## method1

muziksculp said:


> Hi @method1,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I might just wait for their BF 40% discount. I think the Standard version is pretty good, even if it doesn't give me all the customization tools, I can always insert an EQ after the Reverb to tweak it a bit more. I also have Exponential Audio's R4, which sounds very good, and can be customized quite a bit.
> 
> I'm looking forward to download Synch. Strings Pro (full), and begin discovering it.
> 
> I have quite a few of the older VSL VI-Pro based strings, which only offer one mic option, so using Synchron Player, and the multi-mics that Synch. Strings Pro (full) offers is going to be a new, and luxurious environment to work in.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Yeah I reckon wait and see regarding sales, as Zanshin mentioned the secondary market should also open up a bit now. R4 + CR standard will keep you going for sure 

So will this be your first synchron player library?


----------



## muziksculp

method1 said:


> Yeah I reckon wait and see regarding sales, as Zanshin mentioned the secondary market should also open up a bit now. R4 + CR standard will keep you going for sure
> 
> So will this be your first synchron player library?



Synchron Strings Pro will be my second Synchron Player library. 

My first Synchron Player library was Synchron Strings I, a few years back when it was first released, I was not happy with it, and I ended up deleting it. 

That's why I'm so happy that VSL got it right this time around with Synchron Strings Pro, and honored Synchron Strings I owners with a nice discount price to purchase Synch. Strings Pro. . I will also have to refresh my memory, or do some review on using the Synchron Player, since I haven't used it for a few years. 

I also look forward to see VSL release Synchron Brass Pro, and Synchron Woodwinds Pro, in the coming months. I think VSL has gained a lot of experience after a few years, with how to best make multi-mic libraries, VSL were not this experienced when they developed Synch. Strings I. I really feel this was what Synchron Strings I should have been when it was first released, but sadly it wasn't.


----------



## Zanshin

method1 said:


> Yeah I reckon wait and see regarding sales, as Zanshin mentioned the secondary market should also open up a bit now. R4 + CR standard will keep you going for sure



Yeah I just bought CR Pro for $175 "used". It'll be interesting to see where it ends up on average.


----------



## Dracarys

Haven't looked at VE in over 10 years after my first purchase in like 2009. Sounding pretty damn nice these days!


----------



## method1

muziksculp said:


> Synchron Strings Pro will be my second Synchron Player library.
> 
> My first Synchron Player library was Synchron Strings I, a few years back when it was first released, I was not happy with it, and I ended up deleting it.
> 
> That's why I'm so happy that VSL got it right this time around with Synchron Strings Pro, and honored Synchron Strings I owners with a nice discount price to purchase Synch. Strings Pro. . I will also have to refresh my memory, or do some review on using the Synchron Player, since I haven't used it for a few years.
> 
> I also look forward to see VSL release Synchron Brass Pro, and Synchron Woodwinds Pro, in the coming months. I think VSL has gained a lot of experience after a few years, with how to best make multi-mic libraries, VSL were not this experienced when they developed Synch. Strings I. I really feel this was what Synchron Strings I should have been when it was first released, but sadly it wasn't.



Maybe give SYS1 another go while you're at it  
I really think its every bit as good as pro & they work really well together, plus you can add all those velocity layers and make cool combined patches.
Synchron player is great, it loads soooo fast and the workflow suits me perfectly.


----------



## muziksculp

method1 said:


> I really think its every bit as good as pro



Hmmm... I really doubt it. I know they improved a few details, but not the whole library. I just have a bad aftertaste with the whole experience of Synch. Strings I. Would rather not bother with it. 

I think Synch. Strings Pro (full) will keep me busy, without having to use Synch. Strings I. I'm also getting tight on SSD space, would rather use the space available for new libraries.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> Hmmm... I really doubt it. I know they improved a few details, but not the whole library. I just have a bad aftertaste with the whole experience of Synch. Strings I. Would rather not bother with it.
> 
> I think Synch. Strings Pro (full) will keep me busy, without having to use Synch. Strings I. I'm also getting tight on SSD space, would rather use the space available for new libraries.



I am thinking of upgrading to the full version SS1 wanting to give the extra mics a test run i can take SS1 off your hands if the price is right 

i understand you have the full version

Thanks


----------



## muziksculp

novaburst said:


> I am thinking of upgrading to the full version SS1 wanting to give the extra mics a test run i can take SS1 off your hands if the price is right
> 
> i understand you have the full version
> 
> Thanks



Hi @novaburst,

Thanks for the offer, but I'm currently not interested in selling my license of SS1 Full.

VSL has a special discount for upgrading from SS1 Stan. to Full, at this time. You might want to take advantage of that deal.


----------



## robgb

One word: dongle.


----------



## Beans

robgb said:


> One word: dongle.



It's to the point that I recognize your username, because that's your only contribution to any thread in which VSL is mentioned. It'd be like someone going to every Spitfire thread and saying, "no downloadable demos," or every Orchestral Tools thread to say, "no returns." Both of which VSL frequently offer.


----------



## method1

Just for *fun*.. a tale of 4 spiccatos.. can you guess which is SYSP?


----------



## John R Wilson

method1 said:


> Just for *fun*.. a tale of 4 spiccatos.. can you guess which is SYSP?



Is the first one or third one BBCSO? I'm guessing that the second one is SYSP? I'm probably completely wrong.


----------



## JonS

novaburst said:


> I am thinking of upgrading to the full version SS1 wanting to give the extra mics a test run i can take SS1 off your hands if the price is right
> 
> i understand you have the full version
> 
> Thanks


IMHO both SyS1 and SySP have something to offer, I have both. They sound a little different too which is nice so you can mix and match them together without identical redundancy. It almost sounds like they are halves of a larger orchestra as though they are divisi sections even though they are not ie. SyS1 Cellos 8A and SySP Cellos 8B. But the tonal differences means you could sculpt either a much larger orchestra together or pairing different sections from either library to create subtle different sounds. I really hope SyS1 gets detache, spiccato and col legno articulations at some point with more velocity layers and variations than SySP as SyS1 should be the more complete library in all regards.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> Hi @novaburst,
> 
> Thanks for the offer, but I'm currently not interested in selling my license of SS1 Full.
> 
> VSL has a special discount for upgrading from SS1 Stan. to Full, at this time. You might want to take advantage of that deal.



Yes I saw VSL upgrade path and is quite good, 

Just thought I might be in for a good bargain 

Thanks


----------



## UDun

Just downloaded Synchron Strings Pro (full). Sounds great (especially the patches with soft attack and soft release). Quite light on CPU compared to Dimension Strings (IRs enabled etc) even with all mics enabled.

I just found that the legato dynamic range is a bit limited (2 velocity layers). With expressive/exposed lines I prefer Dimension Strings (or even Chamber Strings).

From a mic perspective I find myself using mostly the room mixes (more focused than the decca tree). And surround/back mics it is nice to have them but it is not that critical if cost and space is a concern. Might need to test more.


----------



## Erik

As promised, something completely different than the Mompou Cancion however: _Sketch for strings_. Once written to test different string libraries. FF fast scales (vla and vlc), high espressivo (vl1 and 2) etc.. Full version used (surround to classic) close mics more pronounced here.


----------



## mushanga

method1 said:


> Just for *fun*.. a tale of 4 spiccatos.. can you guess which is SYSP?


The first one sounds the best by far to my ears - would be interested in knowing what this library is?
Third one sounds very bad. The last one less natural and more robotic.


----------



## meradium

ka00 said:


> Did you use any of the presets that had a saturation effect applied to it? I wonder if that's causing it. I'll admit, I'm struggling to create a mix that I really love.



No. In my case it seems to be related to the humanizing detuning function. If I turn that off (so humanization without detuning) the distortion in the high frequencies disappears. I still have to raise a support ticket for it but so far I didn't find enough time for it.


----------



## meradium

Any people here who try to blend their SSS or SCS with those new Synchron Strings? I have to admit I am having a really hard time with it.... Reverb is all right but it seems to be needing quite a bit of EQ. I have tried with different mics from the Standard set. I think this weekend will be the final go or no go call...


----------



## holywilly

Blending Synchron Strings with BBCSO yields very good result, my balance is 60% of SS Pro and 40% BBCSO, very happy with it.


----------



## awaey

ca


holywilly said:


> Blending Synchron Strings with BBCSO yields very good result, my balance is 60% of SS Pro and 40% BBCSO, very happy with it.


When I blending synchron string with any string I Have I cant get good sound ...pleas can you send simple demo how will be the result ?


----------



## meradium

I was successful by applying a good amount of Match-EQ using the lovely FabFilter Plugins. I find they have a more muted soft tone in general.


----------



## jaketanner

awaey said:


> ca
> 
> When I blending synchron string with any string I Have I cant get good sound ...pleas can you send simple demo how will be the result ?


Why are you blending Synchron strings with all other strings? Blending, if even needed, should be complementary...not forced to blend. Some sound stages and baked in halls are just not that compatible


----------



## bfreepro

i just got the Synchron Strings Pro (standard), and from the first few hours just playing them by themselves and compared with other string libs, I’m honestly pretty damn impressed. VSL truly nails it with the playability of their libraries, which I happily discovered with their Synchronized Woods library, and after playing with the legato patches in SyStPro for a while, I must say it’s incredibly convincing. Beautifully fluid and smooth, but also incredibly agile, with the added portamento if you want an extra buttery transition. I was expecting the legato aspect to not be so good simply because so many people have criticized it here, not just this library but with VSL string libraries as a whole, which truly surprises me after my experiences with this library.

For context, I have bbc pro, SSS, SCS, CSS, Afflatus, Hollywood strings gold, 8Dio century strings, jaeger/nucleus, soaring strings, and probably more I’m forgetting. I do see why some may say the VSL SyStPro has a thin sound, as it’s very, very different tonally from say, the Spitfire libraries. The multitude of mics and preset mix options, however, are quite impressive and can really change the sound of the library completely. For instance, BBCSO vins are very rich and resonant in the midrange, but they don’t have as much clarity, I feel all spitfire offerings can easily sound muddy if you’re not careful, same with the dark tone of CSS. The tone of Synchron Strings Pro violins has less mid range resonance, but more air and brightness and absolutely nails that sparkling high end of a sweeping Hollywood string section.

Back to playability: this library is simply unparalleled. The only other company who can come close to this level of playability is again, Spitfire, with their performance legato patches in SSS, SCS, and BBCSO. Even so, while those are good, they truly sound like amateur hour compared to this library. The regular legato patch (not even the agile one) is so incredibly responsive and sounds just as good with fluid, slow lines as it does with fast runs and phrases. If you want the sharp marcato attacks, just enable it in the interface, and boom: there’s your “performance legato“ patch, capable of playing short, sharp notes, smooth fluid lines, and super fast runs all in one, easy to use patch, that never sounds sloppy nor unconvincing (which I can’t say the same for the other libraries I mentioned above).

Also, besides 8Dio century strings with the Arcs, I’ve yet to find a company that records natural dynamic swells so well, specifically with the “espressivo“ patches found here. When I discovered the magic of using the 8Dio arcs years back, I almost never use a regular “sustain” patch anymore. Having discovered how well VSL implements this in their BBO series, I’m so glad they use the same principles with SyStPro, it truly inspires me to write more music and just let the sampled players perform the dynamics instead of messing around with CC01 curves on sustain patches.

You also get polyphonic legato, tutti and combo patches, a crap ton of articulations and mix options, and it cost me freakin 350 usd. Besides the dongle stuff, I sincerely don’t see why more people raving over this (and the recent BBO). While it’s definitely popular, it doesn’t get near the attention it deserves IMO, as BBO is the best sounding tutti/starter library I’ve ever heard, but no one ever talks about it much compared to AI nucleus or something like that. Anyway, I’m seriously impressed and wanted to offer my 2 cents on this release after spending a few hours with it, and being able to compare it with many, many others. KUDOS VSL.

edit: also need to mention how incredibly resource friendly this is, especially compared with the god awful performance of the BBCSO plugin. While the bbc sounds good, I’m steadily eliminating it completely from my template due to the abysmal performance/resource consumption and load times. I kept BBCSO around only for the percussion and the performance legato of the strings, as I grew tired of the ambience-drenched AIR studio sound of SSS and SCS. Anyway, this has solved that problem for me as far as strings are concerned. All just things to keep in mind for potential buyers.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Now that I've been able to spend some time with the library and also compare it to other string libraries I have, I gotta agree with @bfreepro. Really impressed.

It's a really deep library. The wealth of patches and their numerous variations, combined with the capabilities of the Synchron Player, makes this a seriously comprehensive and expressive workhorse library. The playability, editing and scripting is what you'd expect from VSL.

What really convinced me though: it's a new release that actually stands out, and really does something different and better than products already on the market. A/B-ing Synchron Strings Pro with some other string libraries I have was kind of an eye opener. Synchron Strings sounds so crisp, clear, noise-free and noticeably more high fidelity than anyting else. You just get a hell lot more of a raw string sound and lot less low/mid range mud and noise. At times it was like removing cotton from my ears. I think the quality of the recordings and the overall sound is a notch above the rest.


----------



## pinki

And unlike Spitfire you get a money-back guarantee and can re-sell it whenever you choose. And yes I agree with the previous two posts.
Also the Synchron Player is just better than any other of the proprietary players. Super efficient, easy to use and stable.


----------



## doctoremmet

bfreepro said:


> i just got the Synchron Strings Pro (standard), and from the first few hours just playing them by themselves and compared with other string libs, I’m honestly pretty damn impressed. VSL truly nails it with the playability of their libraries, which I happily discovered with their Synchronized Woods library, and after playing with the legato patches in SyStPro for a while, I must say it’s incredibly convincing. Beautifully fluid and smooth, but also incredibly agile, with the added portamento if you want an extra buttery transition. I was expecting the legato aspect to not be so good simply because so many people have criticized it here, not just this library but with VSL string libraries as a whole, which truly surprises me after my experiences with this library.
> 
> For context, I have bbc pro, SSS, SCS, CSS, Afflatus, Hollywood strings gold, 8Dio century strings, jaeger/nucleus, soaring strings, and probably more I’m forgetting. I do see why some may say the VSL SyStPro has a thin sound, as it’s very, very different tonally from say, the Spitfire libraries. The multitude of mics and preset mix options, however, are quite impressive and can really change the sound of the library completely. For instance, BBCSO vins are very rich and resonant in the midrange, but they don’t have as much clarity, I feel all spitfire offerings can easily sound muddy if you’re not careful, same with the dark tone of CSS. The tone of Synchron Strings Pro violins has less mid range resonance, but more air and brightness and absolutely nails that sparkling high end of a sweeping Hollywood string section.
> 
> Back to playability: this library is simply unparalleled. The only other company who can come close to this level of playability is again, Spitfire, with their performance legato patches in SSS, SCS, and BBCSO. Even so, while those are good, they truly sound like amateur hour compared to this library. The regular legato patch (not even the agile one) is so incredibly responsive and sounds just as good with fluid, slow lines as it does with fast runs and phrases. If you want the sharp marcato attacks, just enable it in the interface, and boom: there’s your “performance legato“ patch, capable of playing short, sharp notes, smooth fluid lines, and super fast runs all in one, easy to use patch, that never sounds sloppy nor unconvincing (which I can’t say the same for the other libraries I mentioned above).
> 
> Also, besides 8Dio century strings with the Arcs, I’ve yet to find a company that records natural dynamic swells so well, specifically with the “espressivo“ patches found here. When I discovered the magic of using the 8Dio arcs years back, I almost never use a regular “sustain” patch anymore. Having discovered how well VSL implements this in their BBO series, I’m so glad they use the same principles with SyStPro, it truly inspires me to write more music and just let the sampled players perform the dynamics instead of messing around with CC01 curves on sustain patches.
> 
> You also get polyphonic legato, tutti and combo patches, a crap ton of articulations and mix options, and it cost me freakin 350 usd. Besides the dongle stuff, I sincerely don’t see why more people raving over this (and the recent BBO). While it’s definitely popular, it doesn’t get near the attention it deserves IMO, as BBO is the best sounding tutti/starter library I’ve ever heard, but no one ever talks about it much compared to AI nucleus or something like that. Anyway, I’m seriously impressed and wanted to offer my 2 cents on this release after spending a few hours with it, and being able to compare it with many, many others. KUDOS VSL.
> 
> edit: also need to mention how incredibly resource friendly this is, especially compared with the god awful performance of the BBCSO plugin. While the bbc sounds good, I’m steadily eliminating it completely from my template due to the abysmal performance/resource consumption and load times. I kept BBCSO around only for the percussion and the performance legato of the strings, as I grew tired of the ambience-drenched AIR studio sound of SSS and SCS. Anyway, this has solved that problem for me as far as strings are concerned. All just things to keep in mind for potential buyers.


Great review! Thanks for this.


----------



## doctoremmet

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Now that I've been able to spend some time with the library and also compare it to other string libraries I have, I gotta agree with @bfreepro. Really impressed.
> 
> It's a really deep library. The wealth of patches and their numerous variations, combined with the capabilities of the Synchron Player, makes this a seriously comprehensive and expressive workhorse library. The playability, editing and scripting is what you'd expect from VSL.
> 
> What really convinced me though: it's a new release that actually stands out, and really does something different and better than products already on the market. A/B-ing Synchron Strings Pro with some other string libraries I have was kind of an eye opener. Synchron Strings sounds so crisp, clear, noise-free and noticeably more high fidelity than anyting else. You just get a hell lot more of a raw string sound and lot less low/mid range mud and noise. At times it was like removing cotton from my ears. I think the quality of the recordings and the overall sound is a notch above the rest.


Ditto!


----------



## Simon Ravn

Care to post a little demo? I, owning the original Synchron Strings but having never really used them, am still interested, but also still on the fence. Would love to hear an example where they don't have that thin sound I associate them with!


----------



## Eptesicus

Simon Ravn said:


> Care to post a little demo? I, owning the original Synchron Strings but having never really used them, am still interested, but also still on the fence. Would love to hear an example where they don't have that thin sound I associate them with!



Me too. I am looking to sell my copy of Synchron Strings 1 but some of the comments in here make it sounds like Syn Pro is some amazing new benchmark in string libraries (which in turn makes me think i should get pro). I then go back to listening to all the demos and the walkthroughs and think it sounds average at best.

Would really love to hear a demo that echos some of the gushing sentiment it has received on here (other than the little demo from Saxer which was quite nice).

I think this is a case of trusting my ears over comments/reviews though..


----------



## CT

Yeah I'm interested to hear some more user demos... but as of now this sounds just as meh as 95% of everything else that's out there.


----------



## bfreepro

Simon Ravn said:


> Care to post a little demo? I, owning the original Synchron Strings but having never really used them, am still interested, but also still on the fence. Would love to hear an example where they don't have that thin sound I associate them with!





Eptesicus said:


> Me too. I am looking to sell my copy of Synchron Strings 1 but some of the comments in here make it sounds like Syn Pro is some amazing new benchmark in string libraries (which in turn makes me think i should get pro). I then go back to listening to all the demos and the walkthroughs and think it sounds average at best.
> 
> Would really love to hear a demo that echos some of the gushing sentiment it has received on here (other than the little demo from Saxer which was quite nice).
> 
> I think this is a case of trusting my ears over comments/reviews though..





Mike T said:


> Yeah I'm interested to hear some more user demos... but as of now this sounds just as meh as 95% of everything else that's out there.



Sure! But just a heads up, if you don’t like the sound of it so far, user demos probably aren’t going to sway you lol. I liked the sound of it before I bought it, but what really impressed me and made me want to contribute my thoughts here, is the playability and features. If you think it sounds thin, than it’s probably just not for you, and if you just think it sounds awful along with 95 percent of every other library on the market, then it’s definitely not for you.


----------



## meradium

Nahh... not really sure I would agree with the comments above necessarily. At least for the moment I get more utility out of the Spitfire libs since they are so easy and versitile to use. The hall can get on your nerves some times. But it is so quick and easy to get a decent sounding line out of them with the performance patches. The VSL lib for me at least takes much more time to deal with all the keyswitching and stuff. It gets in the way of making a tune quite quickly. I am honestly still debating with me if I will keep this lib. On paper it is awesome to have the flexibility with all those switches. It is incredible sounding when playing soft piano lines... I just hope I will eventually find an EQ and mic setting that I like. So far I am out of luck with this one. Particularly with the 1st violins. They quickly sound synthy to me if I am not careful with the CCs. Maybe its just a learning process...


----------



## CT

bfreepro said:


> But just a heads up, if you don’t like the sound of it so far, user demos probably aren’t going to sway you lol.



I think in some cases they can be more revealing. Other times, not very representative....



bfreepro said:


> if you just think it sounds awful along with 95 percent of every other library on the market, then it’s definitely not for you.



Not awful, just... meh! A step forward for VSL, but I'm wondering when a developer will really make the next big leap instead of just claiming to.


----------



## bfreepro

meradium said:


> Nahh... not really sure I would agree with the comments above necessarily. At least for the moment I get more utility out of the Spitfire libs since they are so easy and versitile to use. The hall can get on your nerves some times. But it is so quick and easy to get a decent sounding line out of them with the performance patches. The VSL lib for me at least takes much more time to deal with all the keyswitching and stuff. It gets in the way of making a tune quite quickly. I am honestly still debating with me if I will keep this lib. On paper it is awesome to have the flexibility with all those switches. It is incredible sounding when playing soft piano lines... I just hope I will eventually find an EQ and mic setting that I like. So far I am out of luck with this one. Particularly with the 1st violins. They quickly sound synthy to me if I am not careful with the CCs. Maybe its just a learning process...


To clarify, when I was comparing it with performance legato of spitfire, I was directly comparing one patch with one patch (spit performance legato vs VSL legato with marcato overlay), so there were no keyswitches necessary.


----------



## bfreepro

Mike T said:


> I think in some cases they can be more revealing. Other times, not very representative....
> 
> 
> 
> Not awful, just... meh! A step forward for VSL, but I'm wondering when a developer will really make the next big leap instead of just claiming to.


Yeah I definitely can understand that, for me I like it because it combines a lot of my favorite things about various libraries into one, eliminating the need to blend three different string libraries together for every project, it actually simplifies things. and I guess I should rephrase: if someone doesn’t like the tone or thinks they sound thin, user demos can’t change the overall tone, and I wasn’t someone who didn't like the tone and was suddenly converted, I liked it from the get-go.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Regarding the "thinness": if the demos sounded thin to you already, that's probably how you'd perceive the library itself.

Conversely, I find that many string libraries sound way too powerful and creamy. It's mostly either because they've been recorded from very far away, or because the samples were processed in various ways. Synchron Strings Pro was obviously created with a different sound philosophy in mind: yes, it's a multi-mic library recorded in an actual space, but it's an up-front sound still (that's why the shorts sound good and percussive), and it's that "the sound of strings" type of deal, as opposed to "I'm listening to a recording/production". If that makes sense.

It's a very important distinction as far as expectations go. It's odd to me when for example people expect their violins to sound "fat". I ask myself how.


----------



## meradium

bfreepro said:


> To clarify, when I was comparing it with performance legato of spitfire, I was directly comparing one patch with one patch (spit performance legato vs VSL legato with marcato overlay), so there were no keyswitches necessary.



Is this custom? Or am I missing something in the preset list?


----------



## Simon Ravn

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It's odd to me when for example people expect their violins to sound "fat". I ask myself how.



I don't - I just expect them to sound "normal/average weight". As for some violion samples sounding too full/"fat", sure that is true, that exists. EastWest can sound too full e.g. But it is much easier to carve things out than to put in what was never there.


----------



## method1

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Regarding the "thinness": if the demos sounded thin to you already, that's probably how you'd perceive the library itself.
> 
> Conversely, I find that many string libraries sound way too powerful and creamy. It's mostly either because they've been recorded from very far away, or because the samples were processed in various ways. Synchron Strings Pro was obviously created with a different sound philosophy in mind: yes, it's a multi-mic library recorded in an actual space, but it's an up-front sound still (that's why the shorts sound good and percussive), and it's that "the sound of strings" type of deal, as opposed to "I'm listening to a recording/production". If that makes sense.
> 
> It's a very important distinction as far as expectations go. It's odd to me when for example people expect their violins to sound "fat". I ask myself how.



Yes, if people put sugar in their coffee, they find it hard to go back to unsweetened


----------



## Beans

method1 said:


> Yes, if people put sugar in their coffee, they find it hard to go back to unsweetened



I put sugar in my coffee for two decades and now can't stand it.

EDIT: And I'm really enjoying SySP Standard.


----------



## novaburst

bfreepro said:


> edit: also need to mention how incredibly resource friendly this is, especially compared with the god awful performance of the BBCSO plugin. While the bbc sounds good, I’m steadily eliminating it completely from my template due to the abysmal performance/resource consumption and load times. I kept BBCSO around only for the percussion and the performance legato of the strings, as I grew tired of the ambience-drenched AIR studio sound of SSS and SCS. Anyway, this has solved that problem for me as far as strings are concerned. All just things to keep in mind for potential buyers.



While this is very inspiring and makes me want to get this library i wish the post was with out putting down other library's because i dont think VSL needs that, VSL are quite capable of standing there ground with out the use of lowering other developers. 

VSL products are very good but that goes for all there products, but does not mean other developers do not have equivalent quality because they do, but there is no need to mention them on a VSL thread


----------



## method1

Beans said:


> I put sugar in my coffee for two decades and now can't stand it.
> 
> EDIT: And I'm really enjoying SySP Standard.



You may not have liked SySP during your sugar phase, glad you found your way back to the beans!


----------



## Ashermusic

l don’t think it’s inappropriate in a thread to say “I used to use Library A and B, but now I am moving on to VSL because I think it sounds better, or is more resource friendly, or comes in a prettier box 

It isn’t true for me, but horses for courses.


----------



## Beans

Ashermusic said:


> l don’t think it’s inappropriate in a thread to say “I used to use Library A and B, but now I am moving on to VSL because I think it sounds better, or is more resource friendly, or comes in a prettier box



It's actually quite specifically the content I look for in Sample Talk. Commercial Announcements or Deals Deals Deals? Nope.


----------



## novaburst

Ashermusic said:


> l don’t think it’s inappropriate in a thread to say “I used to use Library A and B, but now I am moving on to VSL because I think it sounds better, or is more resource friendly, or comes in a prettier box
> 
> It isn’t true for me, but horses for courses.



Hi @Ashermusic its just who i am i dont think i need to hear what developers you dont like or fed up with to promote another developer, i think its just as good to say the nice things about the library you just purchased with out saying ....oh that other developers library is bad in tone because that just could be the way your using it how do i know your not just bad at using that library or that library your putting down someone is making it sound great so just stop putting down other developers because now you think you have the one and only

The proof is in the pudding do something with it that library you think another library cant do or better still do a comparison but if your not that good forget it because you will deliberately make the other sound bad


----------



## Ashermusic

Well if that’s the standard 85% of people here will never make a comment.


----------



## JonS

This is largely a question of personal taste. CS2, CSS, EWHOS, CS, SyS1, SySP, BBCSO, SStS, SSS, SCS, HZS, LCOS, BHCT, BS, SySE Bundle, VSL VI Strings, the Arks and Albions all sound good. I don't think anyone can go wrong with any of these libraries. I don't see it as which one is best, they are all valid and have tonal differences that make each one relevant. I know there are other string libraries people prefer that I bet are valid too, but I am most familiar with these. I don't think you have to own more than any one of these, but it's nice if you have options. IMHO: BBCSO sounds the most lush strings of all of them though HZS is similarly lush, if that's the sound one is looking for, while CSS seems to have the tightest and most realistic legato.


----------



## jaketanner

Eptesicus said:


> Me too. I am looking to sell my copy of Synchron Strings 1 but some of the comments in here make it sounds like Syn Pro is some amazing new benchmark in string libraries (which in turn makes me think i should get pro). I then go back to listening to all the demos and the walkthroughs and think it sounds average at best.
> 
> Would really love to hear a demo that echos some of the gushing sentiment it has received on here (other than the little demo from Saxer which was quite nice).
> 
> I think this is a case of trusting my ears over comments/reviews though..


EXACTLY my situation too...I have SY1 for sale for at least a month now...not because it's bad, just don't use it. But now that Pro seems to be better. scripted, I feel a bit ripped...LOL I really hope that they go back and rework SY1 again and give it a smoother legato feel. But considering Pro for sure...


----------



## Salorom

I could spend some time with SSP too and can only add to the general consensus here that it’s definitely a very good library.

I also agree (again, I’m afraid) that the official demos aren’t doing it justice.

Congratulations VSL


----------



## richhickey

I'm finding it interesting that, after pillorying SyS1, the community, now on the other side of the favorably considered BBO series, thinks VSL is nailing it (with mostly a subset of SyS1 samples) in SyS Pro. I mean, I think it's fine, SyS1 _is_ great and SyS Pro may let people discover that. Still, it's funny how opinions work.

On the objective side, as one of the few people who own both, I can tell you now that there is a _ton_ of stuff that is just from SyS1, with different artic names, editing variations, fewer dyns, split apart ff/pp etc.

One of the things it seems like they did was unpack some of the 'smart' shorts/reps tech of SyS1. For instance, in SyS1 there is a 'Short' artic that changes depending on the time interval between notes. If you play one note every bar you get the fully articulated staccato onset/release, but if you play a bit faster/repeat you get a shorter onset/release. In SyS Pro these same samples map to stac/stac-agile, and you'll have to switch yourself. Ditto Super-short -> stac-short/stac-short-agile. While that's more work, I think it's a win in that you couldn't control when the switches happened in SyS1 and e.g. it was hard/impossible to reliably make a rapid bowed/detache from connected staccato notes, and you now can with Pro's stac. The Pro spics seem to be derived from the low dyns of the SyS1 shorts, not sure about that. 

In any case SyS1 didn't get credit for the deep sampling it involved since it was packed into those 'smart' artics, hopefully now it's more evident. I like the additional control. I do not like having fff split off and unreachable in a single full-range patch.

If you are trying to combine these libs (SyS 1+Pro), I've found that the SyS Pro dyn ranges largely correspond to the 'Medium' vel range, so you can e.g. drop the stac etcs right amongst the 'Short notes' there and get mostly seamless switching. 

Finally, do not neglect trying the real time stretch with the detache. It's a bit long as recorded (for my taste) but tightens up well across a pretty wide range.


----------



## Ben

A few remarks to your post:



richhickey said:


> The Pro spics seem to be derived from the low dyns of the SyS1 shorts, not sure about that.


The spiccatos are new recordings.



richhickey said:


> Finally, do not neglect trying the real time stretch with the detache. It's a bit long as recorded (for my taste) but tightens up well across a pretty wide range.


Simply make the note shorter. The Detache in Synchron Strings Pro is kind of an "intelligent" detache with advanced recording, editing and scripting.



richhickey said:


> On the objective side, as one of the few people who own both, I can tell you now that there is a _ton_ of stuff that is just from SyS1, with different artic names, editing variations, fewer dyns, split apart ff/pp etc.


Sorry, but that's not right. There are *some *articulations included from the Synchron Strings Pro and re-edited, but in general these articulations have the same number of velocity layers.
But a lot of articulations are completely new recordings.


----------



## bfreepro

novaburst said:


> While this is very inspiring and makes me want to get this library i wish the post was with out putting down other library's because i dont think VSL needs that, VSL are quite capable of standing there ground with out the use of lowering other developers.
> 
> VSL products are very good but that goes for all there products, but does not mean other developers do not have equivalent quality because they do, but there is no need to mention them on a VSL thread


This is sample talk, not commercial announcements. I’m giving my 100 percent honest feedback, which is what I always have, and always will do. I’m explaining, in detail, my reasoning for giving this library praise, so others can decide for themselves if they need it. I even say the other libraries are good, I just find this one better.


----------



## CT

Simon Ravn said:


> I don't - I just expect them to sound "normal/average weight". As for some violion samples sounding too full/"fat", sure that is true, that exists. EastWest can sound too full e.g. But it is much easier to carve things out than to put in what was never there.



Agreed. I'm not looking for an overblown sound, just a natural sound. But some people like to play the game of "VSL is the absolute most naturally realistic sound out there and anything else is for cinematic slobs" so whatever.


----------



## novaburst

bfreepro said:


> This is sample talk, not commercial announcements. I’m giving my 100 percent honest feedback, which is what I always have, and always will do. I’m explaining, in detail, my reasoning for giving this library praise, so others can decide for themselves if they need it. I even say the other libraries are good, I just find this one better.



I just gave my thoughts, all be it true thoughts,

Enjoy


----------



## bfreepro

novaburst said:


> I just gave my thoughts, all be it true thoughts,
> 
> Enjoy


There was no ill intent here, as you can see I own a ton of libraries. They all sound good, but it would be a lie to say that the BBC plugin doesn’t cause anxiety and frustration due to the issues I mentioned. I work full time writing music and need things that work the way I need them to, which may not be the same for every user  When you have that many, it’s almost a necessity to read honest user opinions, and more so, user comparisons, to decide if it’s something that would even benefit you. That’s all. I simply put out the kind of info, as a reviewer, that I would personally benefit from as a reader, which includes (sometimes seemingly harsh) critique.


----------



## bfreepro

meradium said:


> Is this custom? Or am I missing something in the preset list?


When you select the legato, it gives you an option to select the attack, you just need to select “marcato” for the attack, which gives the first note of any legato phrase a sharp, biting attack. Detached, short notes can then act as Spicattos, and connected notes as legato.


----------



## richhickey

Ben said:


> A few remarks to your post:
> 
> 
> The spiccatos are new recordings.



They're lovely.



Ben said:


> Simply make the note shorter. The Detache in Synchron Strings Pro is kind of an "intelligent" detache with advanced recording, editing and scripting.



It can't see the future and do anything about the first onset. There are decidedly limits on any "intelligent" approach. Certainly splitting the stacs in SyS Pro solves some of the problems with the intelligence of SyS1. I'd certainly prefer these smart performance patches be in addition to the raw materials patches, and for there to be knobs on the intelligence.

[edit] Just spent more time with it and there are _many_ different phrasings you can achieve with the stretch that you can't by just shortening. I still advocate people try it. [/edit]



Ben said:


> Sorry, but that's not right. There are *some *articulations included from the Synchron Strings Pro and re-edited, but in general these articulations have the same number of velocity layers.
> But a lot of articulations are completely new recordings.



By fewer dyns (on the shorts) I meant the lifting out of the fff/harsh samples to a separate patch, vs SyS1 where the Full vel patches go all the way up (and down). The longs certainly have fewer dynamic layers and are documented as such.

You could stop us from having to guess by documenting what's new, what's renamed etc. At present it's a big PITA to combine these two libraries. And if the novelty in SyS Pro is a subset of a SyS2 which would work seamlessly with SyS1, you're not telling us that either.


----------



## novaburst

bfreepro said:


> user comparisons, to decide if it’s something that would even benefit you.



i think this is more to the point, words can often be misleading, esp if we favour something over the other


----------



## John R Wilson

Just purchased Synchron Pro standard. Decided to give them a go, I must admit I am still very unsure about them and unconvinced by the VSL demos but as they do the 14 days returns I thought their would be no harm in testing them and trying them out for myself.


----------



## Eptesicus

jaketanner said:


> EXACTLY my situation too...I have SY1 for sale for at least a month now...not because it's bad, just don't use it. But now that Pro seems to be better. scripted, I feel a bit ripped...LOL I really hope that they go back and rework SY1 again and give it a smoother legato feel. But considering Pro for sure...



Indeed. It is very tricky. 

I am loathed to spend more money to potentially get the product i was expecting to get when i originally bought Synchron I. I foolishly and admittedly bought into the hype and pre ordered when there were zero demos available (not a mistake i will be making again). But i am also concerned that even then, i could spend more money and still be disappointed as none of the demos i have heard so far have really impressed me (i'm not saying they sound bad as such, just that nothing i have heard sounds better than CSS and HS which i already have)


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Mike T said:


> Agreed. I'm not looking for an overblown sound, just a natural sound. But some people like to play the game of "VSL is the absolute most naturally realistic sound out there and anything else is for cinematic slobs" so whatever.



Wow, really?.. 

Seems to me that you can't imagine people preferences different than yours, or perhaps you're convinced that your judgement is normative.


----------



## CT

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Wow, really?..
> 
> Seems to me that you can't imagine people preferences different than yours, or perhaps you're convinced that your judgement is normative.



No, I just know what sound I'm after, and I think there's a tendency on here to classify certain libraries/developers in somewhat unrealistic generalities.


----------



## bfreepro

Ok, so here is something raw. The audio quality seems to not be the best, maybe a bit compressed or something, so I apologize in advance for that, but it's good enough to compare for now! I'll have to adjust the bitrate or something later on my screen cap software as I usually use it for streaming as lower bitrate = lower latency when streaming. Focusing on _fast/agile playing_ here, so comparing it with the Spitfire offerings because I simply do not know any other libraries that don't completely fall apart at fast speeds like this (legato, that is).

Anyway, this is what they all sound like, so you should be able to see why I said the tone is very DIFFERENT from some others, as it's brighter and more clear, but again, maybe that's not to everyone's taste, so don't shoot the messenger guys and gals. I turned the close mics up a bit for SyStPro (standard edition BTW) and panned one of the mics a bit more center.

The most important thing I wanted to capture is playability, so you get to hear it even with my silly mistakes and what not, most of this is how it plays FAST notes, I'm not concerned here if it's even possible for sting players to recreate this, I'm just playing this with the mindset of a keyboardist, and demonstrating how responsive and playable it is, and also you can hear the difference in tone: brighter, not as warm, a bit more detailed, and some could definitely say thinner, all valid opinions!

They're all good. They're all different. I like that SyStPro is insanely responsive, playable, and covers ground that the others don't, especially with the legato, overall tone, and the espressivo patches. YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY!


----------



## bfreepro

Also, to be fair, I did have to use keyswitches for the VSL, for either a soft, normal, or marcato attack, which may confirm what others say, that it may take a bit more programming or keyswitching to get a realistic performance. So if you hate keyswitching keep that in mind too.


----------



## CT

Thanks for taking the time to do that. There is a certain nasality in the VSL tone which is at least in part due to the smaller number of players, and maybe also the mic choices. The agility is nice, but that advantage disappears rather quickly once you no longer want to play extremely rapid passages. Again, thanks!


----------



## ka00

bfreepro said:


> Ok, so here is something raw. The audio quality seems to not be the best, maybe a bit compressed or something, so I apologize in advance for that, but it's good enough to compare for now! I'll have to adjust the bitrate or something later on my screen cap software as I usually use it for streaming as lower bitrate = lower latency when streaming. Focusing on _fast/agile playing_ here, so comparing it with the Spitfire offerings because I simply do not know any other libraries that don't completely fall apart at fast speeds like this (legato, that is).
> 
> Anyway, this is what they all sound like, so you should be able to see why I said the tone is very DIFFERENT from some others, as it's brighter and more clear, but again, maybe that's not to everyone's taste, so don't shoot the messenger guys and gals. I turned the close mics up a bit for SyStPro (standard edition BTW) and panned one of the mics a bit more center.
> 
> The most important thing I wanted to capture is playability, so you get to hear it even with my silly mistakes and what not, most of this is how it plays FAST notes, I'm not concerned here if it's even possible for sting players to recreate this, I'm just playing this with the mindset of a keyboardist, and demonstrating how responsive and playable it is, and also you can hear the difference in tone: brighter, not as warm, a bit more detailed, and some could definitely say thinner, all valid opinions!
> 
> They're all good. They're all different. I like that SyStPro is insanely responsive, playable, and covers ground that the others don't, especially with the legato, overall tone, and the espressivo patches. YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY!




when played that fast, none of these sound like strings to me, in a way. It sounds like some supercomputer performing calculations in a 60s sci fi tv show. The entire illusion is shattered for me.


----------



## CT

ka00 said:


> when played that fast, none of these sound like strings to me, in a way. It sounds like some supercomputer performing calculations in a 60s sci fi tv show. The entire illusion is shattered for me.



Indeed. There's so much complexity in the sound of string players rapidly moving fingers and bows around. One of those things that just isn't at all "there" yet in any string library.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Mike T said:


> No, I just know what sound I'm after



But apparently people who like SyS Pro don't.


----------



## bfreepro

Yep. I can do more later, again it's not meant to sound totally real here, I'm simply showing how easy it is to play. You can make your own assumptions, obviously you're not going to always play this fast, but I do it a LOT in short bursts in my writing, with runs, trills, agile phrases, etc, and have never had a library that truly handles it well. I think the slow legato is great too when you do the usual stuff like modulate dynamics and throw in portamento, though I think it's better on the Violins. I love CSS but when you listen to real string players, they simply don’t play with legato that pronounced and exaggerated for every transition. Having to keyswitch to do portamento is not as convenient as just pressing the key softer tho. EDIT: There is a way, I spoke too soon. Synchron player rules haha


----------



## Zanshin

bfreepro said:


> Having to keyswitch to do portamento is not as convenient as just pressing the key softer tho.



It is easy to set up a patch do switching based on velocity...


----------



## bfreepro

I 


Zanshin said:


> It is easy to set up a patch do switching based on velocity...


I was 99 percent sure there was a way to do this but I hadn't tried to figure it out yet haha. Thanks!


----------



## Zanshin

bfreepro said:


> I was 99 percent sure there was a way to do this but I hadn't tried to figure it out yet haha. Thanks!



Don't be afraid to get in there and mess around, you can't overwrite the factory presets. That one I showed in the screenshot I actually didn't save as a user preset it is just sitting in my testing template and saves with the project. The Synchron Player is awesome, the only thing I wish it had from other players is the Sine mic mix down.


----------



## bfreepro

Ok for something more real and contextual, this is just one patch, no MIDI editing, straight live playing. How often can you get something this expressive and beautiful without midi editing or touching a single knob or fader?? I LOVE these espressivo patches, and there's one note that slips at the end so you know it's me just jamming live lol. Oh and this is the straight out of the box Tutti instrument with the Espressivo P. legato articulation, with Valhalla Room Reverb (Large Hall at about 16 percent mix)


----------



## Casiquire

Mike T said:


> Agreed. I'm not looking for an overblown sound, just a natural sound. But some people like to play the game of "VSL is the absolute most naturally realistic sound out there and anything else is for cinematic slobs" so whatever.


But VSL genuinely does sound less cinematic and more just straight than most other libraries on the market. That's not a good or bad thing; it's all about context. But it certainly does favor realism over cinematic as far as recording quality.


----------



## Sovereign

bfreepro said:


> I love CSS but when you listen to real string players, they simply don’t play with legato that pronounced and exaggerated for every transition.


Utter nonsense.


----------



## CT

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> But apparently people who like SyS Pro don't.





Casiquire said:


> But VSL genuinely does sound less cinematic and more just straight than most other libraries on the market. That's not a good or bad thing; it's all about context. But it certainly does favor realism over cinematic as far as recording quality.



Look, this is an endless and rather annoying debate potentially, but all I can say is my years of listening to real strings, both recorded with a clean approach and also in person, tell me that the sound of VSL strings, Synchron or not, while not as "cinematic" as others, also doesn't have that much to do with pristine natural sound either. It just strikes me as so silly to pretend otherwise. 

If you love the sound of these Synchron strings, great. I don't care. But I have to seriously question the implication that there's something inherently more natural about it than other stuff. Again, I conclude... whatever.


----------



## Zanshin

So Mike T, what’s an example of a “pristine natural” string library? I’m genuinely curious.


----------



## CT

Zanshin said:


> So Mike T, what’s an example of a “pristine natural” string library? I’m genuinely curious.



How I wish I could refer you to one without reservation!


----------



## Zanshin

Mike T said:


> How I wish I could refer you to one without reservation!



LOL. For me all this is super subjective, lots of people love CSS for example - I’m not a big fan.

What I like about the older VSL sound is that it reminds me of when I was a kid and I would listen to Karajan on Deutsche Grammophon records. That was the period that I fell in love with the orchestra. Now I haven't gone back and AB’d it, but it nostalgically sounds right to me.

Synchron Strings I/Pro are more modern sounding but obviously there’s a continuity of sorts with what came before. I guess I am rambling now...


----------



## CT

Well, this is a major part of this sort of discussion that tends to get lost... what exactly are we all referring to when we talk about "a sound" as a reference point? 

You mention DG, for example... DG, very generally speaking, has a much more produced sound than many of the classical labels I tend to favor, and is guided by the philosophy of making a compelling recording rather than anything else. 

And I'd agree that, if VSL in general sounds like anything, it's some of those DG/Karajan records. But... that ain't "natural!" That's all I'm saying.


----------



## Ashermusic

Mike T said:


> Well, this is a major part of this sort of discussion that tends to get lost... what exactly are we all referring to when we talk about "a sound" as a reference point?
> 
> You mention DG, for example... DG, very generally speaking, has a much more produced sound than many of the classical labels I tend to favor, and is guided by the philosophy of making a compelling recording rather than anything else.
> 
> And I'd agree that, if VSL in general sounds like anything, it's some of those DG/Karajan records. But... that ain't "natural!" That's all I'm saying.



Anytime you listen to a recording of an orchestra, or even listening to them through mics, you are no longer listening to “natural.”

90% pr more of all the orchestral music you have heard in your lifetime wasn’t “natural.”

It’s ALL subjective. Use what sounds good to you and stop worrying about what a bunch of guys on a forum think about your choices. Worry more about learning how to make what you choose work for your music.


----------



## CT

Ashermusic said:


> Anytime you listen to a recording of an orchestra, or even listening to them through mics, you are no longer listening to “natural.”



Yes, Jay, of course. Don't you think I take that into account when I form a definition of the word "natural" to use in this particular context?


----------



## Ashermusic

Mike T said:


> Yes, Jay, of course. Don't you think I take that into account when I form a definition of the word "natural" to use in this particular context?



You may, others may or may not, but the point is still that it’s apples and oranges. A cougar and a housecat are both felines, but it’s silly to try and ask which kind of housecat most resembles a cougar in the wild.

it’s a distraction from the real goal. Which is, presumably, to make music worth listening to.


----------



## CT

Ashermusic said:


> You may, others may or may not, but the point is still that it’s apples and oranges. A cougar and a housecat are both felines, but it’s silly to try and ask which kind of housecat most resembles a cougar in the wild.
> 
> it’s a distraction from the real goal. Which is, presumably, to make music worth listening to.



A conversation on VI-Control about a sample library led me to take a slight detour into recording/sound preferences, and how developers of virtual instruments may fit into different aesthetics. On a forum devoted to music technology, this, to you, is a distraction? A thousand pardons.


----------



## Ashermusic

Mike T said:


> A conversation on VI-Control about a sample library led me to take a slight detour into recording/sound preferences, and how developers of virtual instruments may fit into different aesthetics. On a forum devoted to music technology, this, to you, is a distraction? A thousand pardons.



Fine, then maybe say “I prefer Library A because of a sweetness in the tone” or “they have an aggressive quality that works well for what I often write” instead of this “natural,“, “realistc“ b.s. people on this forum, not just you, spend so much time worrying about.

Anyway, that’s my point of view, it always has been, so back to whatever you want to discuss.


----------



## CT

Ashermusic said:


> Fine, then maybe say “I prefer Library A because of a sweetness in the tone” or “they have an aggressive quality that works well for what I often write” instead of this “natural,“, “realistc“ b.s. people on this forum, not just you, spend so much time worrying about.



I probably won't be changing what I am after from virtual instruments, nor how I verbalize that, but I appreciate the suggestion.


----------



## novaburst

bfreepro said:


> Ok, so here is something raw. The audio quality seems to not be the best, maybe a bit compressed or something, so I apologize in advance for that, but it's good enough to compare for now! I'll have to adjust the bitrate or something later on my screen cap software as I usually use it for streaming as lower bitrate = lower latency when streaming. Focusing on _fast/agile playing_ here, so comparing it with the Spitfire offerings because I simply do not know any other libraries that don't completely fall apart at fast speeds like this (legato, that is).
> 
> Anyway, this is what they all sound like, so you should be able to see why I said the tone is very DIFFERENT from some others, as it's brighter and more clear, but again, maybe that's not to everyone's taste, so don't shoot the messenger guys and gals. I turned the close mics up a bit for SyStPro (standard edition BTW) and panned one of the mics a bit more center.
> 
> The most important thing I wanted to capture is playability, so you get to hear it even with my silly mistakes and what not, most of this is how it plays FAST notes, I'm not concerned here if it's even possible for sting players to recreate this, I'm just playing this with the mindset of a keyboardist, and demonstrating how responsive and playable it is, and also you can hear the difference in tone: brighter, not as warm, a bit more detailed, and some could definitely say thinner, all valid opinions!
> 
> They're all good. They're all different. I like that SyStPro is insanely responsive, playable, and covers ground that the others don't, especially with the legato, overall tone, and the espressivo patches. YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY!




Thanks for putting in the time for this, comparison, i would say if i was doing a comparison firstly i would perhaps play a melodic line, i would set each library up to its best advantage with attack release, and also volume and gain, also if a library worked better with mod wheel i would use that too, 

then i would play a very nice line with all the librarys i want to compare and try to copy the way an orchestra would perform it, lastly this may sound contrary but i would perform it with all the advantages that the library has so i would use reverb or room because thats the way i would like it to sound in a demo or muck up and i would not just put them on a midi program i would play them in real time because librarys have different response times so if you play in real time you can feel how the library wants to be used, 

then i would compare, then you can get a good idea what each librarys advantages and weak points if any this all may need time invested as you have already done and again thanks for that.

But when a library is at its best advantage or the way you want it to be herd in a performance that to me is a true comparison so its a bit like you having a race to win your not going to just get out of bed and do a sprint your going to prepare to win or you will lose so you may eat good exercise use good foot ware, ok librarys are not human but they certainly need to be set up to use correctly, so tweaking it is essential before comparison 

To just play a library dry with out set up i think you can miss the point because that not how you would want to hear it in your full project

Thanks again


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Mike T said:


> Again, I conclude... whatever.



That was a whole bunch of moaning and ignorance to conclude with "whatever". You do you!


----------



## CT

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> That was a whole bunch of moaning and ignorance to conclude with "whatever". You do you!



Yeah yeah, moaning and ignorance... take a hike, Jimmy Hellfire.


----------



## Frederick

My understanding of the Synchron Strings Pro so far:

- VSL has changed course and is trying harder to deliver what the market is asking for in the highest segment.
- The Synchron stage is still so new that they are still learning how to use it best.
- The Synchron Strings 1 are first generation following a philosophy of ultra deep sampling.
- They've learned a lot from what they did with the Big Bang Orchestra.
- Synchron Strings Pro are mostly new recordings and AND there's new scripting, so the crossgrade introduction price for owners of SyS1 seems very fair to me.
- SysPro has a lot less samples than SyS1.

Discussion this triggers is whether Pro is better than 1. Do I even still need 1? Is Pro the next step in the evolution of sampling? Most likely answers range from you don't need 1 anymore to they complement eachother. Opinions seem to differ. Next step in the evolution? Likely not, but for many it will turn out very good.

Myself, as I've stated before, I'm very happy with SysPro.

1) Being exposed to the Synchron Player for the first time, it has blown me away. One instrument, one track, and it seems all transitions are possible. A lot of cool features built in, like being able to create your own crossfades. So many parameters you can control by CC. "You can even resize the window."
2) This library has a great sound, that also happens to be different from what I already own.
3) It seems to be recorded slightly different: More types of transitions seem to have been recorded at the expense of some dynamic layers, although just counting layers is not right considering recordings are spread over more patches.
4) The size of the library is considerably smaller, so I didn't have to buy a new SSD.
5) The price is affordable. It gave me an entry to the VSL world that I wasn't expecting:
5a) BBO is great, but in the end you may end up with an incomplete orchestra compared to say their Symphonic Cube, yet you may have spent over 2500 Euro. Sure, for many people this is exactly what they want, but myself I'm always aiming for (almost) complete control and articulations for all the instruments.
5b) The special editions never appealed to me considering they are not the best they have released and would have to compete against what's best by others like Spitfire Audio, yet the price is still in the same range as other A-list developers' best products. I'm too worried I would end up not using them.
5c) The Synchron package is too expensive for me considering my strategy of buying 4 or 5 different developers orchestral libraries, which let me compare (fun!) and won't leave me stuck without options when things are not working out.
6) First library I own which supports 3D sound. I don't have speakers in the ceiling of my listening room yet, but I do have the extra amps already. Also a renovation of that room is due, so who knows how useful this will turn out to be!

So all in all I consider SysPro to be smack in the middle of the sweet spot.

For me the question is what will be released in the coming year(s)? The risk of buying a lot of BBO modules in the near future is that a Brass Pro and a Woodwinds Pro will be released afterall without an upgrade path. E.g. Musca and Lyra cost together 190 Euro after introduction, but SysPro standard only costs 445, yet offers like ten times the content. I wish VSL would be more open about the roadmap.

I may buy an occasional module of BBO, but will wait for Brass Pro and Woodwind Pro considering it doesn't make sense to me if they are not going to be released in the next few years.


----------



## Ben

Frederick said:


> Musca and Lyra cost together 190 Euro after introduction, but SysPro standard only costs 445, yet offers like ten times the content


The BBOs contain all the mics from the Full Library  



Frederick said:


> I wish VSL would be more open about the roadmap.


We have this beautiful hall, why would we stop sampling?


----------



## Frederick

Ben said:


> The BBOs contain all the mics from the Full Library
> 
> 
> We have this beautiful hall, why would we stop sampling?



Hi Ben,

I knew you might bring up all the mics being in BBO, but still. I have SySPro full myself, so I agree about mics, but still think the balance of content vs price swings heavily towards SysPro. Then again, there have not been any disgruntled BBO users in this thread, so you guys have estimated this right. I would have been disappointed though if I had been in that position...

Why would you stop sampling with such a beautiful hall indeed, after BBO is finished in a few months? So yeah, waiting for Brass Pro and Woodwinds Pro is the logical course of action for me. Doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer a real confirmation though. Anyway, I'm very happy with VSL. Not just because of SySPro, but also because of BBO Phoenix and Quasar. So much quality content, for so little money.


----------



## Piotrek K.

If I'd hear info that woodwinds pro and brass pro will come out till end of 2020 in similar intro price I'd buy strings in a heartbeat. Because my imagination says that full Synchron Orchestra will sound gorgeous and would have no competition in terms of clarity and detail. That is my imagination, not facts!

But I'm pretty sure I won't hear it. So I will be sitting on that Synchron Strings Pro fence for a bit longer :D


----------



## Ben

Piotrek K. said:


> If I'd hear info that woodwinds pro and brass pro will come out till end of 2020 in similar intro price I'd buy strings in a heartbeat. Because my imagination says that full Synchron Orchestra will sound gorgeous and would have no competition in terms of clarity and detail. That is my imagination, not facts!
> 
> But I'm pretty sure I won't hear it. So I will be sitting on that Synchron Strings Pro fence for a bit longer :D


Of course I can't say what libraries are currently in work, and especially I can't talk about potential release dates (to be honest I don't know when these will be ready), but if more Synchron Libraries is what's holding you back, you shouldn't hesitate to get the Synchron Strings Pro. 
We are already working on the next ones


----------



## Piotrek K.

Ben said:


> you shouldn't hesitate to get the Synchron Strings Pro


----------



## Salorom

richhickey said:


> You could stop us from having to guess by documenting what's new, what's renamed etc. At present it's a big PITA to combine these two libraries. And if the novelty in SyS Pro is a subset of a SyS2 which would work seamlessly with SyS1, you're not telling us that either.


Yes please, I was going to ask too. I’d appreciate to know where I might face phasing issues.


----------



## bfreepro

Piotrek K. said:


>


I tried to tread this fine line... and eventually fell 😂


----------



## jaketanner

@Ben will the price for owners of SY1 go up after the intro sale?


----------



## Ben

jaketanner said:


> @Ben will the price for owners of SY1 go up after the intro sale?


Probably yes.


----------



## John R Wilson

My first impression on the library is that it is very good. It seems consistent, well programmed, good legatos, a lot of articulations, nice variety of shorts and brilliant loading times. However, for me I'm not sure it really adds much to what I've already got apart from providing a different tone and great loading times/low system resources. On listening to EWHO strings and Synchron Strings Pro side by side I think I still prefer EWHO strings legatos and overall tone and I prefer the longs in BBCSO strings. The stac on Synchron strings are nice and probably better than EWHO shorts.

I've not really had that much chance to really play around with Synchron Strings Pro yet so I cant make any real conclusion on it but so far I think overall it's a brilliant library for anyone looking for a good core library that provides plenty of articulations. At it's intro price to content ratio their isn't much competition at this quality and the only comparable things for the amount you get is probably EWHO strings. I'm unsure if I will keep it yet but I personally think VSL have done a good job with this library!!

Edit: had a little more of go with Sychron Strings Pro. Think I do actually prefer the shorts on some of my other libraries. They are consistent and well programmed but not too sure on the tone.


----------



## jaketanner

Ben said:


> Probably yes.


Too bad. Thanks


----------



## Beans

John R Wilson said:


> However, for me I'm not sure it really adds much to what I've already got



I've got a few string libraries, but not as many as some. Mainly, EWHO, SySP, CSS, Afflatus, and SCS. Shoot, and I forgot... BBCSO, as well.

I go for CSS when I'm really wanting that tone. I go for Afflatus when I want some flair. And for the others, it (mostly) comes down to section size.

SySP sits right below the "density" of sound of EWHO (due to section size, mics/room, etc.), which I've been wanting.

Granted, there are other benefits, but for me that's why it wasn't strictly redundant of what I already have and therefore made for an easier purchase decision.

EDIT: And BBCSO? I really like the blend across families. I suppose that's my main consideration whenever I bring those out.


----------



## jaketanner

For those that have SyS 1 and pro...aside from the dynamic layers, what is really the benefit of having Sy1 after you get pro? I still don't really understand the concept. SY1 is more expensive, more dynamics. Pro is less money, better legato and added articulations and less dynamics. Is this about it? Still don't see why we'd use SY1 after getting pro.


----------



## John R Wilson

Beans said:


> I've got a few string libraries, but not as many as some. Mainly, EWHO, SySP, CSS, Afflatus, and SCS. Shoot, and I forgot... BBCSO, as well.
> 
> I go for CSS when I'm really wanting that tone. I go for Afflatus when I want some flair. And for the others, it (mostly) comes down to section size.
> 
> SySP sits right below the "density" of sound of EWHO (due to section size, mics/room, etc.), which I've been wanting.
> 
> Granted, there are other benefits, but for me that's why it wasn't strictly redundant of what I already have and therefore made for an easier purchase decision.
> 
> EDIT: And BBCSO? I really like the blend across families. I suppose that's my main consideration whenever I bring those out.



I've got a similar amount of string as you, including; EWHO, BBCSO Pro, SCS and some other including 8dio ISS. I have not got CSS. 

SySP does indeed sit below the "density" of sound of EWHO. It has thinner sound which could be useful when mixing without it becoming too muddy. I'm just trying to decide if it is worth it with my current libraries.

Their certainly is benefits to the library and of course the Synchron Player is very good!! In regards to the BBCSO, I love the tone of it but I cant use BBCSO string alone without integrating and bringing in some other libraries. Not sure how well Synchron Strings would blend with other libraries.


----------



## Eptesicus

jaketanner said:


> For those that have SyS 1 and pro...aside from the dynamic layers, what is really the benefit of having Sy1 after you get pro? I still don't really understand the concept. SY1 is more expensive, more dynamics. Pro is less money, better legato and added articulations and less dynamics. Is this about it? Still don't see why we'd use SY1 after getting pro.




Because they dropped the ball on the 1st one and now it doesn't really fit into any logicial progression/standard of a library set. It is a shame, because it has made the whole series very awkward and inconsistent for them.

Personally i think they have gone about the whole thing the wrong way. They know that the 1st library was not well received at all and left a sour taste in many people's mouths (especially those that pre-ordered).

Marketing/customer base wise they should have probably just amalgamated the two into one product and let those that bought synchron 1 get the combination/pro for free, or for a very token amount (like 25 euro or something).


----------



## jaketanner

Eptesicus said:


> Because they dropped the ball on the 1st one and now it doesn't really fit into any logicial progression/standard of a library set. It is a shame, because it has made the whole series very awkward and inconsistent for them.
> 
> Personally i think they have gone about the whole thing the wrong way. They know that the 1st library was not well received at all and left a sour taste in many people's mouths (especially those that pre-ordered).
> 
> Marketing/customer base wise they should have probably just amalgamated the two into one product and let those that bought synchron 1 get the combination/pro for free, or for a very token amount (like 25 euro or something).


Completely agree...it's like they came out with a better SyS, which I believe was mentioned like they implemented what they learned from the BBO into it...so then SY1 owners are just left out? The pro version is for all intents and purposes what SYS1 should have been. I am not paying another penny for this library.


----------



## Eptesicus

jaketanner said:


> Completely agree...it's like they came out with a better SyS, which I believe was mentioned like they implemented what they learned from the BBO into it...so then SY1 owners are just left out? The pro version is for all intents and purposes what SYS1 should have been. I am not paying another penny for this library.



Yep, it has really rubbed me up the wrong way to be honest. 

I realise it is new recordings/articulations etc, but then it also has some crossover and as you say, is marketed as a sort of improvement/what Sync 1 should have been.

Basically "yeh we fixed it and made an altogether better library/package, but its gonna cost you more money to have it *points to outstretched palm*".


----------



## jaketanner

Eptesicus said:


> Yep, it has really rubbed me up the wrong way to be honest.
> 
> I realise it is new recordings/articulations etc, but then it also has some crossover and as you say, is marketed as a sort of improvement/what Sync 1 should have been.
> 
> Basically "yeh we fixed it and made an altogether better library/package, but its gonna cost you more money to have it *points to outstretched palm*".


And apparently if SY1 owners don’t buy it now, it will cost us even more later on. Nope. Lol.


----------



## JonS

jaketanner said:


> And apparently if SY1 owners don’t buy it now, it will cost us even more later on. Nope. Lol.


Regardless how this reality unfolded, I would not say that SySP is uniformly better than SyS1. Even though SySP has some of the same samples as SyS1, they do not sound the same when A/Bing those articulations. I think it's more helpful to look at them as tonal choices or even possible divisi sections even though that was not the intent of these libraries. I think they are both good libraries. If you get SySP you could always return it if you don't like it and then you can just sell SyS1 outright too if you are that unsatisfied with it. So much of liking a library is personal taste so you have every right to like and not like whatever you want. I think the longs and shorts are better in SyS1 than SySP, but SySP is a good library too. The legato is more pronounced in SySP but that does not mean I would never use the legato in SyS1 as they each have different tones and timbre. How many shades of red does a painter need, depends on the painter. Spitfire has so many different string libraries, I think they are all good. If one can afford it, I say get the ones you like. Synchronized Chamber and Appassionata Strings sound good too as do the Orchestral Strings in the Synchronized SE Bundle. I don't feel like SySP makes SyS1 redundant at all, they sound different and can be used together too. I have the Orchestral Cube and even though the strings in the Synchronized SE Bundle are based on the same samples in the Orchestral Cube, the SE Bundle sounds different. I don't think a one ring to rule them all approach is necessary with sample libraries. They offer you different colors to create music, I would try to not overthink this.


----------



## jaketanner

JonS said:


> Even though SySP has some of the same samples as SyS1, they do not sound the same when A/Bing those articulations.


That's even worse then...so that means the new recordings don't really match that of SY1, but complement. This means that if I use SY1 legato, and choose to use SYPro's detache, it's going to sound different...this is not a pro version, it's a scaled down "light" version of Synchron Strings 1. If I didn't already have tons of strings libraries, I would get it because I do think it sounds great...but looking at it from a monetary perspective: SY1 + SYpro is an $800 string library that is not really cohesive, but different sounding.

I was all gung-ho VSL, but I slowed down quite a bit lately. Just feels wrong to put out a better sounding and playable library with articulations that should have been there in SY1, and true articulations instead of faked, and then all at a lower price than SY1. If they offered a trade-in swap I'd do that...but can't sell out more for it.


----------



## method1

I'm using both SyS1 & Pro together, happy so far.

I like having the extra options and because the player is so configurable it gives a lot more options when making custom patches.

I realise some people are still bitter over SyS1, but I missed that whole era and bought it as a finished product. It's totally consistent, has no bugs, and is actually in tune! Nudge nudge say no more!

It's odd that people feel ripped off because they have a deeply sampled, super consistent & functional product! Not to mention responsive support!

If you don't like the tone of SyS1 I doubt you'll connect with Pro, each has some unique qualities but it's variation on a theme tonally.


----------



## JonS

method1 said:


> I'm using both SyS1 & Pro together, happy so far.
> 
> I like having the extra options and because the player is so configurable it gives a lot more options when making custom patches.
> 
> I realise some people are still bitter over SyS1, but I missed that whole era and bought it as a finished product. It's totally consistent, has no bugs, and is actually in tune! Nudge nudge say no more!
> 
> It's odd that people feel ripped off because they have a deeply sampled, super consistent & functional product! Not to mention responsive support!
> 
> If you don't like the tone of SyS1 I doubt you'll connect with Pro, each has some unique qualities but it's variation on a theme tonally.


I completely agree with you, Joel.


----------



## jaketanner

method1 said:


> It's odd that people feel ripped off because they have a deeply sampled, super consistent & functional product!


Not really...I think ripped off because SY1 had some faked articulations, which are now true recordings...missing articulations like detache and legato flautando, portamento, agile legato...etc, and now pro has it...seems that these extra things should have been given to SY1 owners without asking us to pay more for what should have been there to make SY1 truly complete. Nothing to do with the sound...the tone is nice, and that's one reason I got them to begin with. Support is great as well...no gripes there. I wish I were using SY1 more, then getting Pro would be an easier buy.


----------



## Simon Ravn

I bought it. Afterall it was just 116 Euro. Can't get my head around the demos so like with the original SyS I have to see for myself is there is anything useful for me in there.


----------



## jaketanner

Simon Ravn said:


> I bought it. Afterall it was just 116 Euro. Can't get my head around the demos so like with the original SyS I have to see for myself is there is anything useful for me in there.


How did you get it so cheap?


----------



## pinki

Jake why not sell Ss1 at a low price and take the hit that would allow you to buy SSp for no outlay at all?
That way, it’s as if a library you don’t like has transformed in to a library you do. 
Long term you have taken a hit, but it gets you out of an impasse. 🌞


----------



## jaketanner

pinki said:


> Jake why not sell Ss1 at a low price and take the hit that would allow you to buy SSp for no outlay at all?
> That way, it’s as if a library you don’t like has transformed in to a library you do.
> Long term you have taken a hit, but it gets you out of an impasse. 🌞


I actually thought of that. I’ve also had SY1 on sale for over a month with no buyers. True that I’d be losing, and gaining the pro, but I think I’m just gonna try and sell SY1 and move on. Not because it’s a bad library, just don’t use it...hence the extra hesitation to purchase pro.


----------



## Simon Ravn

jaketanner said:


> How did you get it so cheap?



If you already own Sys - and without VAT, that is the price. Standard version, not Full.


----------



## JonS

jaketanner said:


> Not really...I think ripped off because SY1 had some faked articulations, which are now true recordings...missing articulations like detache and legato flautando, portamento, agile legato...etc, and now pro has it...seems that these extra things should have been given to SY1 owners without asking us to pay more for what should have been there to make SY1 truly complete. Nothing to do with the sound...the tone is nice, and that's one reason I got them to begin with. Support is great as well...no gripes there. I wish I were using SY1 more, then getting Pro would be an easier buy.


I do hope they add Detache and Spiccato articulations to SyS1 with 8 velocity layers and 10 variations at some point as well as Col Legno. But I think SyS1 and SySP sound good together or separately, and if SySP sounded identical to SyS1 I don’t think I would want to keep both. They do compliment each other nicely so using Detache from one and the longs from the other is not problematic at all. They sound close enough to sound like the same library from the same soundstage yet subtly different enough so you could blend and combine them together or mix and match. I also would have preferred SySP to have at least 4 velocity layers not just two so it is more expressive, but it does sound good.


----------



## method1

jaketanner said:


> Not really...I think ripped off because SY1 had some faked articulations, which are now true recordings...missing articulations like detache and legato flautando, portamento, agile legato...etc, and now pro has it...seems that these extra things should have been given to SY1 owners without asking us to pay more for what should have been there to make SY1 truly complete. Nothing to do with the sound...the tone is nice, and that's one reason I got them to begin with. Support is great as well...no gripes there. I wish I were using SY1 more, then getting Pro would be an easier buy.



Presumably you did your research before buying SyS1, in which case you knew what you were getting.
In that case you were not "ripped off".


----------



## Ben

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Im sure they were shouting from rooftops that their fp was just bs layering


Sorry, but Jake and I had PM chats, at least 6 pages long, before he bought SY Strings I.
I answered all his questions and also mentioned the 14 days return policy.
What exactly is here a "rip-off"?


----------



## pinki

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Pre launch? And you shouldn't have to trudge through forums to find that sort of info out.
> 
> I didn't read his specific case, merely commenting on sample company transparency (see OT and their 1RR plucked strings in Phoenix)



..but VSL is the one company where you can buy/try/return or even buy/try/resell.

That's not a comment on Jake's journey btw but I think the whole 'NO DEMO NO RESELL' (Spitfire, 8Dio, EW, OT etc etc etc) bs from other companies is so engrained that people think every company is the same.

VSL has the ultimate flexibility in this regard.


----------



## Zanshin

pinki said:


> ..but VSL is the one company where you can buy/try/return or even buy/try/resell.
> 
> That's not a comment on Jake's journey btw but I think the whole 'NO DEMO NO RESELL' (Spitfire, 8Dio, EW, OT etc etc etc) bs from other companies is so engrained that people think every company is the same.
> 
> VSL has the ultimate flexibility in this regard.



Yep, but god help us when Jake realizes he is ‘stuck’ with BBC SO and it’s issues


----------



## Piotrek K.

Ben said:


> I answered all his questions and also mentioned the 14 days return policy.



Because you are the best and every company should have their own Ben :D Plus I really respect VSL demos, resale and return policy. It should be industry standard.


But SyS 1 early birds (I was one, but decided to leave and sell my... nest?) should get this for symbolic fee.


----------



## holywilly

SyS I and SyS Pro took 810GB (Full version) of disk space, that is world’s largest string sample library. SyS I worths to keep, the lyrical legato is actually can be expressive and emotional.


----------



## Eptesicus

pinki said:


> ..but VSL is the one company where you can buy/try/return or even buy/try/resell.
> 
> That's not a comment on Jake's journey btw but I think the whole 'NO DEMO NO RESELL' (Spitfire, 8Dio, EW, OT etc etc etc) bs from other companies is so engrained that people think every company is the same.
> 
> VSL has the ultimate flexibility in this regard.



I think memories of the release are hazy...

For a start you cant return the library if you bought it from one of their third part resellers.

Also, the release was AWFUL. We didn't even have the full release within 30 days ( the return window), and they announced 3 days before the November release date that it was delayed until some point in December, and then they released the sections slowly/in batches.

It was an absolute cluster **** of a release which muddied the waters as to the return policy.

No doubt many actually wanted to test the full library/wait for some updates to see if it became the library they promised, but due to all the issues and long drip fed release the ability to return the library evaporated.

After the whole library was released (ie when you could actually get a good feel for it as a full library) I realised it wasn't for me and politely requested (with a very thorough email) to simply swap the library for another one of their libraries at the same value, but they point black refused. they simply said i could sell it if i wanted to. As if selling it is easy!

I thought that was more than reasonable and would have cost them nothing.

The release was horrid and full of confusion/false advertisement. I am loathed to use VSL again ( which is a shame as the first special edition was my very first orchestral sample library), but the way they handled Sync 1 release and they way they treated rightfully disappointed customers was simply not good enough.


----------



## Ben

Eptesicus said:


> I think memories of the release are hazy...
> 
> For a start you cant return the library if you bought it from one of their third part resellers.
> 
> Also, the release was AWFUL. We didn't even have the full release within 30 days ( the return window), and they announced 3 days before the November release date that it was delayed until some point in December, and then they released the sections slowly/in batches.
> 
> It was an absolute cluster **** of a release which muddied the waters as to the return policy.
> 
> No doubt many actually wanted to test the full library/wait for some updates to see if it became the library they promised, but due to all the issues and long drip fed release the ability to return the library evaporated.
> 
> After the whole library was released (ie when you could actually get a good feel for it as a full library) I realised it wasn't for me and politely requested (with a very thorough email) to simply swap the library for another one of their libraries at the same value, but they point black refused. they simply said i could sell it if i wanted to. As if selling it is easy!
> 
> I thought that was more than reasonable and would have cost them nothing.
> 
> The release was horrid and full of confusion/false advertisement. I am loathed to use VSL again ( which is a shame as the first special edition was my very first orchestral sample library), but the way they handled Sync 1 release and they way they treated rightfully disappointed customers was simply not good enough.


Please tell me you are joking... 
I've looked up your emails: You bought, returned it once to get a better deal, bought it again and wanted to swap it in half a year later. What company would ever agree to that?


----------



## Eptesicus

Ben said:


> Please tell me you are joking...
> I've looked up your emails: You bought, returned it once to get a better deal, bought it again and wanted to swap it in half a year later. What company would ever agree to that?



Yes, which was another terrible thing that VSL did!! I actually forgot about that!

You had everyone pre order, and then introduced the voucher offer, meaning that everyone who pre-ordered it EARLIER paid more!

So yes, i changed my pre order so i could use the voucher offer. You now seem to be implying that i was wrong to have done that?

Then i had to wait half a year to actually be able to see what the library would end up like becuase it took VSL months to release the differnt sections and update it to a vaguely acceptable standard!

As far as i was aware when i pre-ordered it, i was getting a full product at the end of November.

I am actually even more shocked that an actual rep for the company is acting like you are in response to customers. You may not like it, but i guarantee you that i am not the only one who feels burnt by the Synchron 1 release.



Ben said:


> What company would ever agree to that?



A good one, that acknowledges when they have disappointed their customers with a bad release and flawed product?


----------



## Ashermusic

Eptesicus said:


> Yes, which was another terrible thing that VSL did!! I actually forgot about that!
> 
> You had everyone pre order, and then introduced the voucher offer, meaning that everyone who pre-ordered it EARLIER paid more!
> 
> So yes, i changed my pre order so i could use the voucher offer. You now seem to be implying that i was wrong to have done that?
> 
> Then i had to wait half a year to actually be able to see what the library would end up like becuase it took VSL months to release the differnt sections and update it to a vaguely acceptable standard!
> 
> As far as i was aware when i pre-ordered it, i was getting a full product at the end of November.
> 
> I am actually even more shocked that an actual rep for the company is acting like you are in response to customers. You may not like it, but i guarantee you that i am not the only one who feels burnt by the Synchron 1 release.
> 
> 
> 
> A good one, that acknowledges when they have disappointed their customers with a bad release and flawed product?



Ben, sorry you are having to go through this. In the years I worked for EW as their online coordinator I had to deal with similar b.s.


----------



## Salorom

Ashermusic said:


> Ben, sorry you are having to go through this. In the years I worked for EW as their online coordinator I had to deal with similar b.s.


Mm. Let's not go there Jay please.

Eptesicus does have a point.

I'm one of the very loyal VSL customers who went with the SSI early bird offer in a blink, and will never again, only because of this particular release.

Any way you look at it, SSP was released to fix something. If the first Synchron Strings installment was a satisfactory one, there might have been a Synchron Strings II with additional content only, as is usually the case for VSL products. Not a redo 'with a different approach' including redundant articulations.

In that respect, the SSP price tag for SSI early adopters doesn't feel right.


----------



## Ben

Eptesicus said:


> As far as i was aware when i pre-ordered it, i was getting a full product at the end of November.


Yes, the release was delayed. (That was before I started at VSL, so I have to look up the dates and more myself).
Anyway, your request to swap out the library was from the end of July, months after the release.



Eptesicus said:


> Lets also point out that Ben has liked the comment about my experience/thoughts being "b.s."
> 
> Im actually quite shocked that a customer rep would do that. At the time, there were loads of people complaining about the same thing, and the Synchron Strings release was objectively mismanaged and poorly done.
> 
> Yet, it would appear VSL see genuine customer complaints and disappointment in them as "b.s"
> 
> That too is "noted"


Not your comment about your experience / thoughts, but I'm alienated by the strange expectations that you can swap-in the product at any time (and similar requests I get/read). Never heard of such a thing. It's also nothing personal, like @Ashermusic noted, I see a lot of strange things as well, and I'm often puzzeled from where such expectations and requests come from. There is no company out there that I'm aware of that does something like this...

Anyways, I don't want to discuss this further, so this is my last comment regarding this case.


----------



## Ben

Salorom said:


> Any way you look at it, SSP was released to fix something. If the first Synchron Strings installment was a satisfactory one, there might have been a Synchron Strings II with additional content only, as is usually the case for VSL products. Not a redo 'with a different approach' including redundant articulations.


Not really. Initially it was internally also called "Synchron Strings II". But to avoid confusion for new customers what of these two libraries should be your first in our opinion, it was renamed to "Pro". Synchron Strings I is still there and there are still reasons to use it.

And thanks to the experience and feedback we gained with the releases of the BBOs we could offer you this library at this awsome price (couldn't believe it as well at first).


----------



## pinki

Can we get back on topic now. 

I like this library a lot.


----------



## Salorom

Ben said:


> Not really. Initially it was internally also called "Synchron Strings II". But to avoid confusion for new customers what of these two libraries should be your first in our opinion, it was renamed to "Pro". Synchron Strings I is still there and there are still reasons to use it.


Really, Ben? Come on. The only articulations SSP has that SSI doesn't are the portamento, the ponticello and harmonics.

Also, if this release was originally supposed to be "Synchron Strings II", then why ever considering a rebate for SSI owners?


----------



## JonS

Salorom said:


> Really, Ben? Come on. The only articulations SSP has that SSI doesn't are the portamento, the ponticello and harmonics.


And... SSP also has Detache, Spiccato and Col Legno, which SSI also does not have. The Legato in SSP is different than in SSI and the shorts and longs sound different in SSP than SSI even if they have the same samples.

I think what matters most is what each product is now. SyS1 is a potent library and I don't know why it is not recognized for what it is as opposed to its painful birth. IMHO both of these libraries are solid products and work well together regardless how we got here.


----------



## Salorom

JonS said:


> And... SSP also has Detache, Spiccato and Col Legno, which SSI also does not have. The Legato in SSP is different than in SSI and the shorts and longs sound different in SSP than SSI even if they have the same samples.


Alright, I was a bit quick about it, I'll give you that. Please go compare the sample content of Orchestral Strings I and II on the VSL website, you'll see what I mean.


----------



## jaketanner

Simon Ravn said:


> If you already own Sys - and without VAT, that (116 Euro) is the price. Standard version, not Full.


Wow. For me it’s $150. Still not a lot, but you got a great deal.


----------



## jaketanner

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Pre launch? And you shouldn't have to trudge through forums to find that sort of info out.
> 
> I didn't read his specific case, merely commenting on sample company transparency (see OT and their 1RR plucked strings in Phoenix)


I want to make clear that I am not criticizing SY1. If SY pro never came out I would not have any issues. I explained why I feel ripped off because you now released a more complete library, except for the dynamics, and for less money. Also it sounds different so blending them as one string section might be hard...although this is a guess on my part since I don’t have pro. It’s all good though. It is what it is...like I said I accepted SY1 for what it was and Ben certainly was helpful and it’s nothing personal.


----------



## jaketanner

method1 said:


> Presumably you did your research before buying SyS1, in which case you knew what you were getting.
> In that case you were not "ripped off".


I absolutely knew. I did NOT know however that there would be a pro version that added more to the library at a lesser price. I had no issues with SY1 at all...it’s that now they added things that I think should have been there and asking more money to add it. Not gonna mention it anymore though, I think others have also said quite a bit and I don’t want to add anymore rage. )


----------



## doctoremmet

Zero&One said:


> I'm using the old woodwinds with MIR, and even though I spent ages building a template around them I'll be buying it with zero hesitation. They are that good imo


I have looked at the VI ones too, but really like the Synchron player. Out of all the vendors with their own players, VSL seem to have nailed it the best - by far. Merely based on impressions / hopes of course. I am a total VSL virgin... a while back I was this close of buying the entire SE bundle... for use on my laptop. I didn’t because I think I’d want the larger libraries in the end...


----------



## John R Wilson

doctoremmet said:


> I have looked at the VI ones too, but really like the Synchron player. Out of all the vendors with their own players, VSL seem to have nailed it the best - by far. Merely based on impressions / hopes of course. I am a total VSL virgin... a while back I was this close of buying the entire SE bundle... for use on my laptop. I didn’t because I think I’d want the larger libraries in the end...



I really like the Synchronized woodwinds. Great playability and the legatos are really nice!!


----------



## Zero&One

doctoremmet said:


> I have looked at the VI ones too, but really like the Synchron player. Out of all the vendors with their own players, VSL seem to have nailed it the best - by far. Merely based on impressions / hopes of course. I am a total VSL virgin... a while back I was this close of buying the entire SE bundle... for use on my laptop. I didn’t because I think I’d want the larger libraries in the end...



The Synchron player is certainly more friendly and if you opt for SsP it would be ideal. Wrestling with 2 players isn't what you really want.
I also have the full solo/chamber VI's and their new Synchron-ized versions, both are stellar upgrades so i can't see the woodwinds being anything less.


----------



## wbacer

Synchron Strings Pro provides two different types of presets:
XF:
Dynamics get controlled by VelXF (CC1). This can be changed by turning VelXF off. Then dynamics get controlled by velocity.

XFsus:
Dynamics of long note articulations get controlled by VelXF (CC1).
Dynamics of short note articulations get controlled by velocity.

What are the pluses and minuses of each approach? Which one do you prefer?


----------



## José Herring

I'm loving my first VSL purchase. SySPro is such a different way of thinking about strings. Forces you to think about how you want to write for strings rather than just dialing up a patch and laying it down.


----------



## jaketanner

wbacer said:


> Synchron Strings Pro provides two different types of presets:
> XF:
> Dynamics get controlled by VelXF (CC1). This can be changed by turning VelXF off. Then dynamics get controlled by velocity.
> 
> XFsus:
> Dynamics of long note articulations get controlled by VelXF (CC1).
> Dynamics of short note articulations get controlled by velocity.
> 
> What are the pluses and minuses of each approach? Which one do you prefer?


With VSl...I feel that their velocity scripting is actually pretty good in terms of using velocity to control dynamics. So for me, if the passage is not very dynamic, and I have the specific patch (soft, medium, loud...etc), I find that velocity works better and leaves me a hand free to control other things on the fly. If the dynamics need to be at full scale while playing...I find that using the mod wheel, and taking velocity OFF, works best...however for shorts I always use velocity as it's much more natural to play than using the modwheel. Hope this makes sense.


----------



## Mike Greene

I've deleted a pile of posts, since "drama ensued." This was 61 posts that got deleted, and it's tricky to do, because there's a lot of intertwining between legit stuff and side drama, so apologies if some good stuff became collateral damage.

VSL does allow critical discussion in their threads (general rule is that negative comments are _not_ allowed in Commercial Announcements threads), but the side discussions and bickering got way out of hand, so with apologies to VSL (I haven't notified them of this), I'm doing some cleanup. To be clear, it's not criticisms that I'm deleting, it's the side drama.

Also, there were a few posts about other companies's libraries and some discussion about selling to other members in this thread, and ... what's up with that??? (EDIT - See below, this is my error.)

I don't want to monitor this thread, so I have a few requests:

Eptesicus - I think you've more than made your point, so lets leave it be now. Thanks.

Unnamed Member - Unless you have something truly relevant to add, please don't insert yourself into discussions like this. It doesn't help. Really, it doesn't. (This doesn't necessarily only apply to xxxx, but given that you've been on the forum only a few months, yet already have thousands of posts ... maybe you don't need to say _everything _that comes into your mind.  )

Everybody - Please don't respond with _"But *my* post shouldn't have been deleted!"_ You certainly may be right (surgical deletions is harder than you might think, and no doubt I made some errors), but at this point, it would better to move on with actual discussion, rather than start a new debate about what was cool and what wasn't.

*<EDIT>* Ugh ... I just noticed this is a Sample Talk thread, not a Commercial Announcements thread, so some of the posts about other libraries should not have been deleted. Totally my error. My apologies for that.


----------



## Beans

So, hey, how's everyone getting along with blending SySP with other libraries? I'll admit that the only other thing I've put into a project with SySP is the CSB 2 Trombones patch. It actually worked fine, but I got distracted and didn't get very far.

I've previously had some trouble, however, getting BBO percussion (I have Dorado, Phoenix, and Quasar) to blend with others without losing the "in your face" closeness that I love about them, so I'm curious what others are experiencing here. 

What's pairing well? What's not? How are you overcoming that?


----------



## muziksculp

I'm just beginning to download the Stereo Mic content of Synchron Strings Pro (Full version). I didn't know that the surround files were a separate download, which is a good thing. I'm just downloading the Stereo mics first.

So, I will start exploring Synch. Strings Pro without installing the surround mics once it is finished installing, this saves me some SSD space, I will then download the additional Surround mic options, which take a lot more SSD Space.

I have a feeling I will be spending a good amount of time discovering these strings


----------



## chapbot

I thought vsl was going to post a video demonstrating the different mics? If anybody had a moment I would love to hear a legato violin line with the close mic. From what I can tell I love the sound of this library but it seems like the legato violin seems a little synthy. I would just love to hear it exposed to get a better perspective.


----------



## bfreepro

chapbot said:


> I thought vsl was going to post a video demonstrating the different mics? If anybody had a moment I would love to hear a legato violin line with the close mic. From what I can tell I love the sound of this library but it seems like the legato violin seems a little synthy. I would just love to hear it exposed to get a better perspective.


I can do that later tonight for you


----------



## bfreepro

chapbot said:


> I thought vsl was going to post a video demonstrating the different mics? If anybody had a moment I would love to hear a legato violin line with the close mic. From what I can tell I love the sound of this library but it seems like the legato violin seems a little synthy. I would just love to hear it exposed to get a better perspective.


There are so many options to choose from lol, here is CLOSE mics only, no room/reverb, soft attacks and releases (most realistic for a slow line IMO)


----------



## bfreepro

For context, the same thing added celli and with a more orchestral/Hollywood mix


----------



## chapbot

bfreepro said:


> For context, the same thing added celli and with a more orchestral/Hollywood mix


This is so nice of you, thanks! It's exactly what I wanted to hear. The violins don't sound as synthy here as they have on other demos.


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> The violins don't sound as synthy here as they have on other demos.



It takes a lot of experience, and skill to get them to sound Synthy


----------



## Frederick

The Synchronized Woodwinds are on sale (30% off)! 

A nice addition to SySPro and BBO Phoenix & BBO Quasar I think, and considering their excellent reputation I bought them right away.

Thanks for the sale @Ben and the rest at VSL!

I'm still looking forward to future releases of Brass Pro and Woodwinds Pro, of course, but now I would like to urge VSL to make haste with the brass especially.


----------



## Beans

Frederick said:


> The Synchronized Woodwinds are on sale (30% off)!



@#$%. I was hoping I wouldn't be tempted by these anytime soon.

BBCSO Pro's woodwinds keep surviving everything I start through the end (despite having a few alternatives), but I know that VSL's woodwinds are highly regarded.


----------



## Casiquire

jaketanner said:


> Not really...I think ripped off because SY1 had some faked articulations, which are now true recordings...missing articulations like detache and legato flautando, portamento, agile legato...etc, and now pro has it...seems that these extra things should have been given to SY1 owners without asking us to pay more for what should have been there to make SY1 truly complete. Nothing to do with the sound...the tone is nice, and that's one reason I got them to begin with. Support is great as well...no gripes there. I wish I were using SY1 more, then getting Pro would be an easier buy.


They didn't promise those articulations with SYS1 though. It makes no sense to feel ripped off over articulations that were openly and clearly not included or promised. I think it's best to look at SYSP like a brand new library. It doesn't sound the same as SYS1 to my ears, and because some samples are shared, SYS1 users get a discount. Seems simple enough to me.

I do understand feeling ripped off for not liking the tone, the legato, or expressive qualities. I don't understand feeling ripped off over articulations you think should have been there, but plainly weren't. As far as I'm concerned they could release a staccato only library. If you think it's worth it, go for it, but you're not ripped off by them coming out with a ponticello only library the next week.


----------



## muk

Casiquire said:


> They didn't promise those articulations with SYS1 though. It makes no sense to feel ripped off over articulations that were openly and clearly not included or promised.



That's not the problem if I am not mistaken. The problem is that the articulation list of Synchron Strings 1 has sforzando on it. And these apparently were not recorded for SyS 1. Instead the articulation was apparently created/faked by layering two other articulations on top of each other. And now Synchron Strings 'Pro' have real recorded sforzati.

I think it is reasonable to expect an articulation to be real recordings when you see it on the articulation list without any further comment. I think it is misleading by VSL to not specify the layering, and in my opinion they deserved the flak they got for it. And I can understand the people who feel slightly burned by having payed for layered sforzandi, when Sys 'Pro' now has real recorded ones. But also I assume that most people probably didn't buy SyS 1 for the sforzati alone, so there's that too.


----------



## jaketanner

Casiquire said:


> They didn't promise those articulations with SYS1 though


Yes, you are right in this regard.


----------



## Casiquire

muk said:


> That's not the problem if I am not mistaken. The problem is that the articulation list of Synchron Strings 1 has sforzando on it. And these apparently were not recorded for SyS 1. Instead the articulation was apparently created/faked by layering two other articulations on top of each other. And now Synchron Strings 'Pro' have real recorded sforzati.
> 
> I think it is reasonable to expect an articulation to be real recordings when you see it on the articulation list without any further comment. I think it is misleading by VSL to not specify the layering, and in my opinion they deserved the flak they got for it. And I can understand the people who feel slightly burned by having payed for layered sforzandi, when Sys 'Pro' now has real recorded ones. But also I assume that most people probably didn't buy SyS 1 for the sforzati alone, so there's that too.


I agree in that regard, but that wasn't the point I was responding to.


----------



## muziksculp

Hello Synchron Strings Pro users, 

Are you mostly using the VSL Presets when using this library, or are you making your own custom patches ? 

Thanks.


----------



## holywilly

muziksculp said:


> Hello Synchron Strings Pro users,
> 
> Are you mostly using the VSL Presets when using this library, or are you making your own custom patches ?
> 
> Thanks.


I make my own presets that suite my workflow. I’ll send them to you if you are interested, just pm me. :D


----------



## muziksculp

holywilly said:


> I make my own presets that suite my workflow. I’ll send them to you if you are interested, just pm me. :D



Thanks. 

I was just curious, I will also be making my own custom presets that suite my workflow. I find it hard to adapt my workflow to the ready made VSL Presets. Too many dimensions to navigate through for me. 

One more question. What does the 'Marcato' Fader that is assigned to CC3, in the Performance area actually do ? I couldn't find much info about it.


----------



## John R Wilson

Can you play different lengths of marcato with the marcato articulation? I believe vsl mentioned this was feature of the marcato articulation but It doesn't seem to be working that well when just playing it in.


----------



## muziksculp

Any idea what the Performance Fader labeled 'Marcato' does ? 

I couldn't find any info about it.


----------



## method1

John R Wilson said:


> Can you play different lengths of marcato with the marcato articulation? I believe vsl mentioned this was feature of the marcato articulation but It doesn't seem to be working that well when just playing it in.



I'm not aware of any factory preset that does this, however you could control the length of the Marcato with the time stretch function assigned to a dimension control.


----------



## John R Wilson

method1 said:


> I'm not aware of any factory preset that does this, however you could control the length of the Marcato with the time stretch function assigned to a dimension control.



Ok great thanks, I'll have a look at doing that. It was just something I saw mentioned in one of the VSL Videos about the detache articulation and being able to play them from very short and up to half a second depending on midi note lengths.


----------



## method1

I could be wrong, but I think the only recorded marcato articulations are for the legatos.

Those patches can be manipulated with time-stretch as could the detaches.


----------



## John R Wilson

method1 said:


> I could be wrong, but I think the only recorded marcato articulations are for the legatos.
> 
> Those patches can be manipulated with time-stretch as could the detaches.



Yeah I think you are correct in regards to the marcato articulations. It was the detache articulation that is suppose to vary in length from very short and up to half a second based on the length of the midi note played.


----------



## Ben

Not the length but the intensity of the marcato for slots with marcato control - you can see the same CC is assigned:


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I'm using Synchron Strings Pro. When I load a PATCH from the browser, the background of the Synchron Player has the light grey, and white shapes, not the brown violin image that shows up when I load a Synchron String Pro PRESET from the browser. 

So... How do I change the background to show the brown violin background when I create my own custom PATCH/Preset ? I couldn't find anything on the interface that does it.

I would appreciate some feedback on this detail.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Rich4747

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm using Synchron Strings Pro. When I load a PATCH from the browser, the background of the Synchron Player has the light grey, and white shapes, not the brown violin image that shows up when I load a Synchron String Pro PRESET from the browser.
> 
> So... How do I change the background to show the brown violin background when I create my own custom PATCH/Preset ? I couldn't find anything on the interface that does it.
> 
> I would appreciate some feedback on this detail.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


When I create my own patches in the player I start by resetting a preset by right clicking in the player and click reset [i think thats what it says] then drag in any Patches into that, then save. you also keep the nice warm back ground. and retain the mixer setting etc. So if I want to create a new violin preset I will start with a violin preset and alter that then save as a new one. if you find this info useful please send me a full copy of SSpro thx.


----------



## muziksculp

Rich4747 said:


> When I create my own patches in the player I start by resetting a preset by right clicking in the player and click reset [i think thats what it says] then drag in any Patches into that, then save. you also keep the nice warm back ground. and retain the mixer setting etc. So if I want to create a new violin preset I will start with a violin preset and alter that then save as a new one. if you find this info useful please send me a full copy of SSpro thx.



Thanks for the useful feedback. Exactly what I needed to know.

Now I will contact VSL and make sure they send you a full copy of SSPro, they will need your credit card info .


----------



## meradium

Just went through the horror of rebuilding the entire set of patches as well... Luckily you can copy them over to the other instruments via some nifty scripting. But boy, that was a pain.

Here is a quick test using the result:



You can really go soft with these strings. But I am still looking for ways to improve the sound... I find them quite muted. Almost as if I have put a filter on them. Almost too soft...

Also, does anybody know how to get a sharper attack from any of the legato patches? In the example above I really missed the convenience of my SSS Performance Patches which allow me to quickly dial in some attach simply by changing the velocity. So far with this library I was out of luck. The marcato patches are too harsh. Any ideas?


----------



## Ben

meradium said:


> Also, does anybody know how to get a sharper attack from any of the legato patches?


Have you already tried using the "Legato agile" instead?
Or you can stack the staccato or spiccato articulation with the legato and control the amount via slot crossfade:

1. Click on the plus




2. Copy paste the stacc or spicc over




3. Enable parallel mode (P) and replace the keyswitch with Dimension Controller C




4. Select the legato slot, go to EDIT -> Options and change the parallel mode to "Mix". (the parallel mode for the stacc/spicc should stay on XFade)




5. Now you can control the amount of attack by spicc/stacc via CC3.

Alternativ solution: Copy paste the "Trem. marcato" slot over and replace the tremolo articulation with the legato via copy-pasting.


----------



## meradium

Hmm... just tried... but to be honest I do not hear any difference between the agile and the normal legato attack... Is there supposed to be a difference? Just checked the Legato agile in the original patch... completely identical... except there is also a typo because I have two "normal" attacks and the 2nd one is actually a "soft release" - at least in my version. Was there maybe an update?

EDIT: Ok, picture did not match text... let's see if this works...


----------



## Ben

And don't forget the auto-speed slot in the Legato-agile slot. This switches between articulations based on playing speed.

Hm, now that I'm writing this - of course you can also create a velocity sensitive variant:





1. Copy the layered slot we just created
2. Past it on the staccato patch
3. Disable parallel mode for this slot and change the dimension controller to F or another not used one
4. Change the dimension controller's mapping to velocity. In the CONTROL tab you can now alter the curve response:





Now you will get the default legato when playing to a certain velocity and the stacked one with higher ones - the amount is still controllable by CC3.


----------



## Ben

meradium said:


> but to be honest I do not hear any difference between the agile and the normal legato attack... Is there supposed to be a difference?


The agile legato is optimized for fast passages and ostinatos. The attack will sound a little different, but if it's still not enough I recommend to try the layering technique I mentioned.

There are two "Normal attack" slots to make the agile slot identical to the normal legato one. But for the agile legato there is no soft-attack variant, so it is filled with the normal one instead as well.


----------



## Beans

And this is one of the many reasons why I love Synchron Player.


----------



## meradium

Hmm...


----------



## meradium

So with some further tinkering I was finally able to get to something that sounds like a more pronounced initial attack. The trick was to, as Ben had already suggested, layering one of the Staccato patches on top of the Legato patch. However, it only really started to sound good when you also cut into the Legato sample (500ms) and in addition to that delayed it by 0.1 using the ADSR. Now I have a biting start which smoothly transitions into a strong string signal without any natural attack. Well, so far so good... now I only need to get that somehow in line with all the other patches.. puh... I think I have never tinkered as much with any other library before. I guess that's a trade-off you face with added flexibility?

At least it got me appreciating the functionality provided by the Synchron Player much more. Now, If we could also assign specific CC ranges for the dimension controllers or better yet assign stuff directly to the CCs... Nor at least show which CC values the articulation will start to trigger just like with the note switches. That would be even better. Is this on the roadmap?

Oh, and while we are at it: Please consider adding a feature that lets you easily replace the instrument for a copied slot... Code editor is cool. But I crashed the engine multiple times when I accidentally had a typo in the find/replace concept...


----------



## meradium

For those interested: this is the result...


Can probably be still improved by carefully tweaking the start offset of the legato and its delay.


----------



## Ben

meradium said:


> Oh, and while we are at it: Please consider adding a feature that lets you easily replace the instrument for a copied slot... Code editor is cool. But I crashed the engine multiple times when I accidentally had a typo in the find/replace concept...


The player shouldn't crash because of this. Could you please send a detailed description via mail to [email protected] and add an example to the attachments that causes the player to crash? This way our devs should be able to fix the issue. Many thanks!


----------



## meradium

Ben said:


> The player shouldn't crash because of this. Could you please send a detailed description via mail to [email protected] and add an example to the attachments that causes the player to crash? This way our devs should be able to fix the issue. Many thanks!



Sorry, I used the wrong word: It did not crash in a fatal technical sense. But the player told me visually: Bad boy. You did something wrong.


----------



## Ben

meradium said:


> Sorry, I used the wrong word: It did not crash in a fatal technical sense. But the player told me visually: Bad boy. You did something wrong.


Ok, great to hear


----------



## meradium

OK, final post with the full tune.



Still not quite there yet. Fun library for sure. Now if someone has a good recommendation on how to make the violins shine a bit more? EQ is already on it. Tape saturation as well. Maag EQ4 for "that air" as well...


----------



## Ben

meradium said:


> Now if someone has a good recommendation on how to make the violins shine a bit more?


If you use VEP7, try adding the included exciter.


----------



## JonS

meradium said:


> OK, final post with the full tune.
> 
> 
> 
> Still not quite there yet. Fun library for sure. Now if someone has a good recommendation on how to make the violins shine a bit more? EQ is already on it. Tape saturation as well. Maag EQ4 for "that air" as well...



MIR Pro makes everything sound better IMHO.


----------



## meradium

Ben said:


> If you use VEP7, try adding the included exciter.



Oh.. Look... too much stuff. Did not even know that was available. Looks like it really does the trick!


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Ben ,

I have the VSL Vienna Suite Plugins, not the Pro version.

These plugins are very high quality, and are imho. first class, they really deserve more attention.

The Exciter is one of the special tools it includes, very useful for brightening/shining duties. The EQ sounds wonderful, so do the Compressor, and Limiter, and Hybrid Reverb, Imager, ..etc.

Any chance the Vienna Suite Plugins will be updated to become Scalable like the Pro version ? that's the only criticism I have about them.

Thanks.


----------



## Ben

muziksculp said:


> Any chance the Vienna Suite Plugins will be updated to become Scalable like the Pro version ? that's the only criticism I have about them.


Not as far as I know. But I can really recommend the upgrade to the Suite Pro!


----------



## muziksculp

Ben said:


> Not as far as I know. But I can really recommend the upgrade to the Suite Pro!



I was thinking about upgrading to the Suite Pro, but I found it a bit more focused on Surround features, which I don't need, since I'm only working in Stereo.

Would you still recommend the Suite Pro for someone working strictly in Stereo ?


----------



## Ben

muziksculp said:


> Would you still recommend the Suite Pro for someone working strictly in Stereo ?


I think it is still worth it. But you can try the 30 days demo and see for yourself.


----------



## muziksculp

Ben said:


> I think it is still worth it. But you can try the 30 days demo and see for yourself.



Thanks. 

I appreciate your feedback.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,


Some of the presets that VSL made require two keyswitch notes to arrive at the target articulation, how do you deal with this in your DAW when working with this, and other Synchron libraries ? 

Any suggestions/tips, or good strategy regarding how best to organize/customize the dimension trees, ..etc. ?

Are you making your own custom presets, or are you using the VSL made Presets ?

Thanks.


----------



## Beans

chapbot said:


> I thought vsl was going to post a video demonstrating the different mics?



@Ben is there a timing for this video? I, hopefully not errantly, recall this as being in the works. Is a video comparing Standard and Full mics coming before the end of the introductory period? I'm currently on the fence, already owning Standard.

Thanks!


----------



## Ben

Beans said:


> @Ben is there a timing for this video? I, hopefully not errantly, recall this as being in the works. Is a video comparing Standard and Full mics coming before the end of the introductory period? I'm currently on the fence, already owning Standard.
> 
> Thanks!


Sorry, almost forgot to answer your question...

I'm not sure, but I think we don't have such a comparison video. But I can recommend to check out Don's review of these strings where he also demonstrates a few of the Full Library mixer presets: https://vi-control.net/community/th...trings-pro-by-vienna-symphonic-library.99757/

Hope this helps


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

VSL Synchron Strings Pro is becoming my favorite go to Strings Library.

Thanks to VSL for making this amazing, and wonderful sounding Strings Library.

I would love to see *Synchron Pro* versions for Con Sordino Strings, Solo Strings, Woodwinds, and Brass released in the future to have a true Synchron Stage based VSL Orchestral Library.

Thanks,
Muziksculp

Edit: I added Synchron Solo Strings Pro to the wish list of future releases


----------



## Michael Antrum

You know what I'd really love right now, and with the covid restrictions that we currently have, would be quite practicable.

I'd love a Synchron Harps Library.

@Ben, get it sorted mate.....


----------



## José Herring

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> VSL Synchron Strings Pro is becoming my favorite go to Strings Library.
> 
> Thanks to VSL for making this amazing, and wonderful sounding Strings Library.
> 
> I would love to see *Synchron Pro* versions for Con Sordino Strings, Solo Strings, Woodwinds, and Brass released in the future to have a true Synchron Stage based VSL Orchestral Library.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp
> 
> Edit: I added Synchron Solo Strings Pro to the wish list of future releases


I agree. So for it's a fantastic library. I'm still trying to figure it out. The keyswitching scheme is far way more than I care to deal with. I'd like to use it with expression maps but in all honesty it seems to me that the submenues keep changing it making it hard to set up an expression map. But, I need to dig in and find out how to best implement the syncrhon player.


----------



## muziksculp

José Herring said:


> I need to dig in and find out how to best implement the syncrhon player.



Yes, that's what I'm trying to accomplish as well. Given the amount of articulations this library offers, it is not the simplest thing to do. 

I don't use Cubase, (I use Studio One Pro 5), so no expression maps here. But I can use key-switches in my DAW.

I'm also trying to incorporate my iPad Pro using Lemur App. to switch articulations, and MIDI CC faders. I know it's going to take some time, and effort to feel very comfortable using a custom Synch. Strings Pro Setup, but given how good this library sounds, imho. it surely is worth spending more time setting it up to my needs for speedy workflow/productivity.


----------



## José Herring

muziksculp said:


> Yes, that's what I'm trying to accomplish as well. Given the amount of articulations this library offers, it is not the simplest thing to do.
> 
> I don't use Cubase, (I use Studio One Pro 5), so no expression maps here. But I can use key-switches in my DAW.
> 
> I'm also trying to incorporate my iPad Pro using Lemur App. to switch articulations, and MIDI CC faders. I know it's going to take some time, and effort to feel very comfortable using a custom Synch. Strings Pro Setup, but given how good this library sounds, imho. it surely is worth spending more time setting it up to my needs for speedy workflow/productivity.


I agree. I guess what I'm grappling with is the effort vs. time equation. I tried to use it on a very simple sustained string part and while it sounded great, to get real expression out of it was going to take time. On the other had BBCSO took almost no time and HS with expression maps took a little bit of time but not so much. 

So there is that to consider for me. If I cant' get the programming time down to at least HS effort then I won't be able to use it professionally.


----------



## Zero&One

@José Herring could you try deleting all the articulations so it makes switching less of a headache maybe? I also removed some articulations from the groups I didn't need.
I done this for longs for example, so I only really KS with the second 2 groups (odd occasion last group). I moved them down from their defaults as half were above the play range.


----------



## José Herring

Zero&One said:


> @José Herring could you try deleting all the articulations so it makes switching less of a headache maybe? I also removed some articulations from the groups I didn't need.
> I done this for longs for example, so I only really KS with the second 2 groups (odd occasion last group). I moved them down from their defaults as half were above the play range.


I will try that for sure. Or maybe organizing them in a way that makes more sense to me.


----------



## Zero&One

José Herring said:


> I will try that for sure. Or maybe organizing them in a way that makes more sense to me.



Yeah, that's what I've had to do. Wrestling with 32,000 keyswitches isn't how my brain works. So one piece just has longs to spicc repeating. So I have a patch with just those in, just 2 note key switch.

Hope you find a method.


----------



## method1

Babylonwaves has already added SySPro to Art Conductor.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

It took me a while to figure out how to organize things the way they made sense to me and build my own custom setup and expression maps. Some stuff might still change as I work with the library more.

There are countless patches and options in this library and it seems that it's almost impossible to have _every _option, _every_ type of crossfade and _every_ combination set up and not go crazy with KS and CCs. So it almost seems to make more sense to take from it what you need and set up stuff the way it works for you, and just be happy that the rest is there too, should the situation call for it.

HS is kinda similar. Initially, you really have to kinda dive in and first break things down to a basic level and pick and choose from there.


----------



## bfreepro

muziksculp said:


> Yes, that's what I'm trying to accomplish as well. Given the amount of articulations this library offers, it is not the simplest thing to do.
> 
> I don't use Cubase, (I use Studio One Pro 5), so no expression maps here. But I can use key-switches in my DAW.
> 
> I'm also trying to incorporate my iPad Pro using Lemur App. to switch articulations, and MIDI CC faders. I know it's going to take some time, and effort to feel very comfortable using a custom Synch. Strings Pro Setup, but given how good this library sounds, imho. it surely is worth spending more time setting it up to my needs for speedy workflow/productivity.



Studio One Pro 5 has the expression map feature now. A great way to manage the banks of keyswitches, is by using both the expression/articulation maps in addition to the drum map editor. I posted about it recently here in another thread about Studio One:

“For libraries like VSL or the Sonokinetic woodwinds, where there are multiple “banks” of keyswitches, using the expression map menu in addition to the drum map editor is seriously intuitive and massively speeds up my workflow. For instance, you can set up the expression maps to switch between long/short/legato/trem/etc, then use the drum map editor to label out normal, marcato, portamento, etc. It’s just a very handy way to visually label the keyswitches and have them instantly available to change on the fly with a single click in the piano roll instead of hunting for keyswitches and scrolling through octaves.”


----------



## muziksculp

bfreepro said:


> Studio One Pro 5 has the expression map feature now. A great way to manage the banks of keyswitches, is by using both the expression/articulation maps in addition to the drum map editor. I posted about it recently here in another thread about Studio One:
> 
> “For libraries like VSL or the Sonokinetic woodwinds, where there are multiple “banks” of keyswitches, using the expression map menu in addition to the drum map editor is seriously intuitive and massively speeds up my workflow. For instance, you can set up the expression maps to switch between long/short/legato/trem/etc, then use the drum map editor to label out normal, marcato, portamento, etc. It’s just a very handy way to visually label the keyswitches and have them instantly available to change on the fly with a single click in the piano roll instead of hunting for keyswitches and scrolling through octaves.”



Thanks for the helpful feedback. 

I will check this out. Did you post it in the DAW section of the forum ?

Oh.. and it would be very useful if there was a video showing how this is setup with a library like VSL.


----------



## bfreepro

I did a video on how to do this (set up the Drum Map editor to reflect the Keyswitch information for orchestral libraries) a while back: 

Essentially you would apply this info to the "note type" only, as opposed to the actual "articulation"


----------



## bfreepro

More detailed explanation specifically for Synchron libraries: 

Basically, the biggest advantage here is having those keyswitches labeled and visible instantly: only the labeled keyswitches will appear in the drum editor, so you don't have to stare at 100s of piano keys and scroll up and down and play a guessing game which one will trigger which articulation or note type.


----------



## muziksculp

@bfreepro ,

Awesome. That's going to be very helpful. 

Thanks


----------



## muziksculp

By the way, Presonus might be releasing Studio One Pro 5.1 tomorrow (Oct. 20th), I wonder if they added any new features to the keyswitch editor.


----------



## muziksculp

Check this thread in the DAW section. 

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/studio-one-5-1-releases-on-oct-20.99903/


----------



## Beans

For those of you still looking into SySP, a new demo video was posted on YouTube. I'm not sure that it was previously an audio demo on the VSL site.


----------



## muziksculp

So far, I have been discovering VSL Symphonic Strings Pro, without the additional Surround Mics. (I didn't download the surrounds), last night I decided to go ahead and download the additional Surround mics, and test some patches using the additional mics, and experiment with various mic mixes.

Surely, the additional mics add a lot more body, and variations to the timbre/character of the patches, so I'm further impressed now that I can tweak the sounds even further via the additional mic options.

It's also fun, and interesting to change the default/preset panorama/pan width of the various mics, and see what happens.


----------



## Jack Weaver

José,

CC20 is the normal crossfade CC for SySP.
I just use a Korg nanoKontrol2 with loads of faders, knobs and buttons - so setting up for SySP is no problem at all.

.


----------



## muziksculp

VSL's VI-Pro has a feature where you can add a volume envelope to Instrument Slots, these envelopes cover the range of the keyboard, so you can have layers that fade out or fade in depending on which notes/keyboard range you are playing.

This would be a cool, and useful feature to add to Synchron Player.


----------



## Ben

Beans said:


> For those of you still looking into SySP, a new demo video was posted on YouTube. I'm not sure that it was previously an audio demo on the VSL site.



@Beans Thanks for posting this awesome composition by Guy Bacos 



muziksculp said:


> This would be a cool, and useful feature to add to Synchron Player.


There are quite some features on our wish-list for the Synchron Player, and we hope to integrate these into the player over time.
Currently our development team is focused on a different product, so stay tuned!


----------



## José Herring

Jack Weaver said:


> José,
> 
> CC20 is the normal crossfade CC for SySP.
> I just use a Korg nanoKontrol2 with loads of faders, knobs and buttons - so setting up for SySP is no problem at all.
> 
> .


Thanks. Yes after watching the video again I realized that. Funny that I use CC1 and it seems to work but I haven't spent any time yet with SysPro which I intend to do in the next few days.

I'll eventually figure it out 

Btw I have the NanoKontrol 1 and probably one of the best tool I've ever purchased. I should step it up to 2. I've often thought of getting an ipad for faders but really the less glowing colorful shinny things I have around me the better.


----------



## RSK

Ben said:


> Currently our development team is focused on a different product, so stay tuned!



If that different product is Synchron Brass, it will be an automatic buy for me.


----------



## muziksculp

RSK said:


> If that different product is Synchron Brass, it will be an automatic buy for me.



Same here. Be it Synchron Brass, or Synchron Woodwinds . 

Then hopefully they will give us Synchron Solo Strings, that would be fabulous. 

Looking forward to have a complete VSL Synchron Orchestra.


----------



## markit

The key-switches situation in Studio One was driving me a bit crazy too.

Unfortunately, until we get multi-pitch articulations, some sort of folders, and perhaps custom colors, it'll be hard to manage big libraries such as SyS Pro in S1.

Rather than using the drum map editor I decided to take a different approach and made all the patches available at different, unique pitches. My goal was to get a maximum of 4 different lanes of key-switches.







Below is an example of all the key-switches laid out for Violins 1st. These might obviously change based on the range of the instrument 






Some thoughts:

It's obviously a mess to trigger these from the keyboard, but it works great for me in the piano roll!
Multi-lanes in Studio One are sometimes clumsy to use
Nothing bad happens, but sometimes I might forget and trigger an attack/release key-switch on an articulation that doesn't have one
If VSL introduces new articulations, there won't be enough space and I'll have to rethink this a bit 
Sometimes it feels a chore to select first the articulation, and then the type. So many clicks...
This is not usable with the full-range ensemble. I use Divisimate though, so for now it's not a problem for me
This little project took me a a couple of nights, so I'm sharing here presets and key-switches for all the single sections. Please keep in mind that the Dimension Tree has been customized quite a bit!

Let me know if you happen to give them a spin and you find them useful! ✌


----------



## markit

@Ben Before I forget, I found this (I believe) small inconsistencies in the the Dimension Tree of the regular presets!

All the strings sections come with a preselected humanization preset, but this is not true for 2nd Violins!
For every instrument, the _Attack_ column of _Legato Agile_ has two _Normal Attack_ slots that point to the same patches. Was perhaps the original intention here to have a _Normal / Soft / Marcato?_


----------



## Ben

markit said:


> @Ben Before I forget, I found this (I believe) small inconsistencies in the the Dimension Tree of the regular presets!
> 
> All the strings sections come with a preselected humanization preset, but this is not true for 2nd Violins!
> For every instrument, the _Attack_ column of _Legato Agile_ has two _Normal Attack_ slots that point to the same patches. Was perhaps the original intention here to have a _Normal / Soft / Marcato?_


Found the missing humanization presets myself just yesterday and talked to the colleague who creates these presets about it. This should be fixed with the coming Synchron Player update.

Regarding the Attack of Agile Legato: It makes no sense to have soft + agile legatos, but for consistency - so you can quickly change between normal and agile legato - the slot where the soft legato would have been is set to a copy of the agile legato.


----------



## muziksculp

One of my favorite Scores :


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

muziksculp said:


> One of my favorite Scores :




Likewise! I wonder if he transcribed that by ear or had the full score (which I don't think you can purchase). Either way, phenomenal job! Really great demo for the library and Vienna FX suite.


----------



## hayvel

Ben said:


> And don't forget the auto-speed slot in the Legato-agile slot. This switches between articulations based on playing speed.
> 
> Hm, now that I'm writing this - of course you can also create a velocity sensitive variant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Copy the layered slot we just created
> 2. Past it on the staccato patch
> 3. Disable parallel mode for this slot and change the dimension controller to F or another not used one
> 4. Change the dimension controller's mapping to velocity. In the CONTROL tab you can now alter the curve response:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you will get the default legato when playing to a certain velocity and the stacked one with higher ones - the amount is still controllable by CC3.



@Ben sorry for bringing this sidetopic up again, but I am a bit puzzled by the options to answer this demand in synchron player. I spent 2 hours now trying to combine staccato (or a range of articulations) with legato to basically create a performance patch that allows to play many different 'styles' without keyswitching or cc-actions. Your solution would require the user to actively switch between a combined and standard legato, right?

I think if there was a way to configure non-legato articulations to only trigger once and not retrigger while playing legato notes, so only the first note of a legato passage has the added attack, we would have a much more elegant solution to this. This would allow for repeated short notes (lifting the fingers off the keys each note) or legato or a combination within one patch by simply playing properly, no cc or switches needed.

Unfortunately Synchron Player lacks a function to give non-legato articulations such behaviour (no retrigger when legato playing), or am I missing something? I think this would add a whole new level of playability to the instruments and it seems like an 'easy' to implement feature.

Playability is quite essential for me and actually a deciding factor for a purchase. Any chance you will add something like this in a future update? Or am I super confused and there is a solution already?


----------



## Ben

hayvel said:


> @Ben sorry for bringing this sidetopic up again, but I am a bit puzzled by the options to answer this demand in synchron player. I spent 2 hours now trying to combine staccato (or a range of articulations) with legato to basically create a performance patch that allows to play many different 'styles' without keyswitching or cc-actions. Your solution would require the user to actively switch between a combined and standard legato, right?


It depends on what method you've using. If you mix legato and stacc like described in post #639 you can simply pull down the CC.



hayvel said:


> Any chance you will add something like this in a future update? Or am I super confused and there is a solution already?


If I got you right this is not possible - but the Synchron Strings Pro Legato->Marcato/sfz does exactly this.
But feel free to send this as feature request to [email protected] and my colleagues will take a look at it and see what can be done!


----------



## hayvel

Ben said:


> It depends on what method you've using. If you mix legato and stacc like described in post #639 you can simply pull down the CC.
> 
> 
> If I got you right this is not possible - but the Synchron Strings Pro Legato->Marcato/sfz does exactly this.
> But feel free to send this as feature request to [email protected] and my colleagues will take a look at it and see what can be done!



Hey Ben, thank you very much for the fast response! Not expected on a Sunday, you should not have to bother with things like this in your spare time. 😉 I followed your advice and sent a request to your colleagues at [email protected]. Fingers crossed (though my expectations are rather low).


----------



## muziksculp

hayvel said:


> I think if there was a way to configure non-legato articulations to only trigger once and not retrigger while playing legato notes, so only the first note of a legato passage has the added attack, we would have a much more elegant solution to this. This would allow for repeated short notes (lifting the fingers off the keys each note) or legato or a combination within one patch by simply playing properly, no cc or switches needed.



Hi @hayvel ,

I was experimenting to try to get what you are trying to achieve. I think I have something that might work for you, I found out that if you use 'Speed' as a dimension control, and set the speed control range in the Control Tab to a range of i.e. 16.5 to 100 using the 'S' curve, apply the curve but just a tiny bit.

Setup a two slot dimension, upper slot is i.e. VC-8 Stac, Lower Slot is VC-8 Legato, Dim Ctrl/A set to 'Speed', and Enable Slot Crossfade icon. (should turn to blue). I also adjusted the volume of the Stac. Cello slot to taste, and delayed its envelope attack value to 0.46 , So it won't stickout too much.

Now when you play, your first note will be the sharper attack that the Stac. offers, the following notes will automatically switch to all legatos, until you stop playing legato style, (end of a legato phrase), then when you play a new phrase, the first note will be the Stacc. again, followed by the legatos if you are playing legato style.

I can post a short video of this setup if my explanation is not clear enough, or you feel it will be helpful. I don't have the time to do the video today, but could do it tomorrow. let me know if this was helpful, and if it does what you needed.

Here are three pics to helpout.















Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## hayvel

muziksculp said:


> Hi @hayvel ,
> 
> I was experimenting to try to get what you are trying to achieve. I think I have something that might work for you, I found out that if you use 'Speed' as a dimension control, and set the speed control range in the Control Tab to a range of i.e. 16.5 to 100 using the 'S' curve, apply the curve but just a tiny bit.
> 
> Setup a two slot dimension, upper slot is i.e. VC-8 Stac, Lower Slot is VC-8 Legato, Dim Ctrl/A set to 'Speed', and Enable Slot Crossfade icon. (should turn to blue). I also adjusted the volume of the Stac. Cello slot to taste, and delayed its envelope attack value to 0.46 , So it won't stickout too much.
> 
> Now when you play, your first note will be the sharper attack that the Stac. offers, the following notes will automatically switch to all legatos, until you stop playing legato style, (end of a legato phrase), then when you play a new phrase, the first note will be the Stacc. again, followed by the legatos if you are playing legato style.
> 
> I can post a short video of this setup if my explanation is not clear enough, or you feel it will be helpful. I don't have the time to do the video today, but could do it tomorrow. let me know if this was helpful, and if it does what you needed.
> 
> Here are three pics to helpout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Hey Muziksculp, interesting, really cool idea and a bit hacky, but the result is all that matters! Thank you very much for sharing your solution and even providing the screenshots to follow. I will give it a try as soon as I have the time to fumble around with the Synchron Player and report back how it works on my end. 

Great stuff. 👍


----------



## hayvel

@muziksculp I just tested your idea but it does not work the way I had hoped, and it is totally clear why it does not, as speed has not much to do with legato/non-legato playing. I could get closer to the desired behavior using velocity instead of speed as dimension controller, having the legato articulation in Mix mode and staccato in XFade mode so it blends in at a certain velocity. The staccato still triggers while playing legato with too much velocity of course, but it is manageable. Still wish there was a better way to achieve this...

Anyway, I think we should get back to topic here. Sorry for the interruption.


----------



## muziksculp

hayvel said:


> @muziksculp I just tested your idea but it does not work the way I had hoped, and it is totally clear why it does not, as speed has not much to do with legato/non-legato playing. I could get closer to the desired behavior using velocity instead of speed as dimension controller, having the legato articulation in Mix mode and staccato in XFade mode so it blends in at a certain velocity. The staccato still triggers while playing legato with too much velocity of course, but it is manageable. Still wish there was a better way to achieve this...
> 
> Anyway, I think we should get back to topic here. Sorry for the interruption.



I know the first thought is 'Speed' doesn't have much to do with this type of control, but when I tested this with the way I had set it up, the first note would always be the stac. and all the following notes played legato will be the legato articulation. 

Maybe VSL can try to add this as a standard feature to the Synchron Player to work perfectly the way you need it to function. 

OK, back to our topic.


----------



## Ben

muziksculp said:


> I know the first thought is 'Speed' doesn't have much to do with this type of control, but when I tested this with the way I had set it up, the first note would always be the stac. and all the following notes played legato will be the legato articulation.
> 
> Maybe VSL can try to add this as a standard feature to the Synchron Player to work perfectly the way you need it to function.
> 
> OK, back to our topic.


If you like feel free to share a preset demonstrating this here


----------



## muziksculp

Ben said:


> If you like feel free to share a preset demonstrating this here



OK, here is a short performance of the speed dimension in action. It's not perfect, but not useless. 

View attachment Synchron Strings Pro Speed Demo.mp4


----------



## Ben

muziksculp said:


> OK, here is a short performance of the speed dimension in action. It's not perfect, but not useless.


Oh, I meant the preset file for the player, but a video demonstration is even better 
Many thanks!


----------



## muziksculp

Here is the Preset file :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nryk8lxkwq5olbe/Legato Speed with Spic Test.vsynpreset?dl=0


----------



## hayvel

muziksculp said:


> Here is the Preset file :
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/nryk8lxkwq5olbe/Legato Speed with Spic Test.vsynpreset?dl=0



Thank you @muziksculp, really appreciated. However, I think this rather proves my point. It works in your example because of your timing (your note changes during legato are faster than the threshold to retrigger the spiccato). When I try playing multiple spiccati in succession, only the first one is triggering the spiccato and then it is legato for all repeated notes. I can also trigger the spiccato during legato if I leave enough time inbetween notechanges. Maybe I am missing something here....

I have not heared anything from VSL support regarding my suggestion, lets see if they want to address this.


----------



## Ben

Yesterday was national holiday in austria, so support has to catch up with the emails


----------



## hayvel

Ben said:


> Yesterday was national holiday in austria, so support has to catch up with the emails



You mean... I am not the only one mailing them? Aww, come on! You guys work on Sundays, why not on a holiday... 😉 
Okay, seriously, I know VSL support is really great. And I actually don't expect a response so quickly. Sorry if I gave a false impression here. Thank you Ben for being so quick and informative.


----------



## artmanjam

Ben said:


> Yesterday was national holiday in austria



Hi Ben, I'd be happy to celebrate and greatful to get a reply to *this thread*...

Almost five months have passed and still no reply about these two SS1 Synchron Violas notes which are out of tune.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

As VSL has historically focused their demos on classical pieces, what are the best demos that highlight SSPro’s sound in a more cinematic context?


----------



## Ben

artmanjam said:


> Hi Ben, I'd be happy to celebrate and greatful to get a reply to *this thread*...
> 
> Almost five months have passed and still no reply about these two SS1 Synchron Violas notes which are out of tune.


Please contact our support via [email protected]
The VSL forum is a user-forum - even if we try to keep a close eye on it, it's not the official support hotline.


----------



## JTB

Can anyone give me some information about the 'Back Mic – Second row'
Is it included in the 'Decca tree Multi' presets when the full library is installed? There isn't anything on their site or in demos. Does this add much to the sound of each section?


----------



## richhickey

JTB said:


> Can anyone give me some information about the 'Back Mic – Second row'
> Is it included in the 'Decca tree Multi' presets when the full library is installed? There isn't anything on their site or in demos. Does this add much to the sound of each section?



I bought Full (of SS1 and SSP) primarily for the Back mics and am glad I did. It's a closer signal much like the Mid, but capturing different players. It provides more varied texture to the 'dry' component than the mids alone. I've also used it to fake divisi (one patch w/mid, one w/back). It doesn't seem to be on in the presets but is trivial to turn on and add to the mix. The other big win for me in Full are the High Stereo mics (I don't like blending in wide/surround mics in a stereo mix). The High Stereos capture a bit more of the room bloom than the tree alone.


----------



## JTB

I just installed it and noticed that the Back mic is included in the surround to stereo downmix presets. Really like the Distant Sur to stereo downmix. It's like the 15th row in MIR.


----------



## hayvel

Okay guys, just bought Synchron Strings Pro Std and Synchronized Woodwinds and wanted to share my excitement here. Hope I will get through the download and installation process quickly.

If these hold up to the overall opinion here it is pretty remarkable how much you get for the current price. And SSP covers alot of ground regarding articulations. For someone just starting out, these two and the BBO percussion and brass would make a really solid foundation at about 1000 Euro. Great alternative to the contenders in that price range.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I too just bought Synchron Strings Pro Standard. VSL SE 01 and 02 were among my first libraries back in the day, but I left them behind and VSL in general due to VSL's tonal preferences (vs. somebody like Spitfire for example). Also, while the VSL player was very advanced, it seemed more complicated to use than the simpler interfaces of other developers.

Fast forward to now, I personally think SSPro has a nice tone (synthy? No way - look at Nucleus or Areia for that) - to me it sounds like a real string section recorded. And just like any vocalist or instrumentalist you would record, you would tailor the tone of that recording to your track. Of course, if you can capture it during recording even better, but that's also why owning multiple string libraries makes sense - each will have their own default tones (Spitfire Symphonic Strings have a more washy, velvety tone for example). But also why having multiple mics makes sense - and even the standard version of SSPro has a number of mix down presets which significantly change the tone (not to mention the built-in EQ / FX).

What convinced me to take a chance on SSPro (nice to have that 14 day return policy) was not only the tone but that amazing Synchron Player which I now can appreciate for all of it's advanced functionality (even if I may never use any of it). I personally think the dimension approach is easier to read than the old matrix setup. There's a lot of clever scripting ability by default (like the note length based detache) - and even more you can construct yourself (for example, what other string library allows you to crossfade between sustain and tremolo and then into flautando)? And unlike a few comments here, I think the legato is very well done (once again look to Nucleus or Areia for it poorly done).

Will be interesting to play with it for the next couple of weeks (and even more interesting if EW decides to release Opus in that time frame).


----------



## markleake

Me too... I crumbled and just bought the Standard version. 

Only played the 1st Violin and 2nd Violin longs so far, and... wow!!

It sounds fantastic. Very light and clear. More like being in the room with real players than the darker tone you get in most other libs. VSL really do have a good thing going here.

Just to experiment to see how easy it is to change the tone, I added an EQ dip of around 4-5dB at 3KHz, and it tames the violins immediately to sound more like what we are used to. So I've got no concerns around it being easy to EQ. Looks like it is easy to tame, eaiser than CSS.

I'm literally only up to playing the longs on the violins, and I'm already hooked. This is a beautiful sounding library. I'm loving the "Espressivo p" patch... it's beautiful. I don't have anything else that does this so well!

The philosopy of the library seems to be to provide various articulations that are suited to particular playing. I'm really digging this approach. It seems much better than only providing a general sustains patch that limits your control. Well done to VSL for being so innovative.

If the rest of the library lives up to this, I might go in for the extra mics.

Back to playing...


----------



## markleake

I just noticed... the library comes with *XF sus* patches where it has longs as CC1 controlled, and shorts as velocity, in the one overall patch. Thanks VSL, this is exactly what I ask asked for a while ago.


----------



## giwro

I caved and bought....  unfortunately, I won’t have time to play with them for a bit yet, as I’m knee-deep in testing the Beta of our next Hauptwerk sample set release... it’s a nearly 100-stop pipe organ, so I’m gonna be busy for awhile yet!


----------



## CT

What organ is that?!


----------



## giwro

Mike T said:


> What organ is that?!


We’re not releasing the info just yet - it’s a large Æolian-Skinner. Not meaning to derail this thread, so... but if you want to hear a couple clips: https://www.contrebombarde.com/concerthall/music/42089








Concert Hall Piece: Chorale-Prelude on St. Christopher "Beneath the Cross of Jesus"


Robert Elmore (1913-1985) was an American composer, organist, pianist who was active in Philadelphia during the mid 20th century and who wrote some organ pieces...




www.contrebombarde.com





I’ll announce in the commercial announcements when it’s ready (and now back to Synchron Strings....)


----------



## ptram

Erik said:


> Hi, herewith 2 user demo's. Source: an own arrangement for string orchestra of Cancion No.6 by the Catalan composer Federico Mompou.



Eirk, if you have time for it, may you also let us hear a demo of this piece with the Standard version, but with a more distant Room Mix?

Paolo


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Is there a way to trigger a rebow for long notes? Or is it best to just break it into multiple MIDI notes where you want the rebow?


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Is there a way to trigger a rebow for long notes? Or is it best to just break it into multiple MIDI notes where you want the rebow?



Multiple midi notes.


----------



## Ben

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Is there a way to trigger a rebow for long notes? Or is it best to just break it into multiple MIDI notes where you want the rebow?


You can do this with legato and portamento articulations: simply re-trigger the note while holding the sustain pedal.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Ben said:


> You can do this with legato and portamento articulations: simply re-trigger the note while holding the sustain pedal.



Awesome - thank you! I have been loving being able to control attacks and releases too - makes things feel so “alive” due to how you can vary the programming.


----------



## muk

Currently I am testing the waters with Synchron Strings Pro. A few days left if I want to return it. I have set up a template. The Synchron Player works pleasantly similar to VI Pro, so I had little difficulties arranging it similarly to my former Dimension Strings template. Soft attacks on legato trigger a portamento, faster playing triggers runs. Low cc1 values trigger the separate pianissimo patch, higher values more vibrato etc. Works really well.

Here is a piece that I used different string libraries for first, now redone completely with Synchron Strings Pro:


----------



## chemie262

muk said:


> Currently I am testing the waters with Synchron Strings Pro. A few days left if I want to return it. I have set up a template. The Synchron Player works pleasantly similar to VI Pro, so I had little difficulties arranging it similarly to my former Dimension Strings template. Soft attacks on legato trigger a portamento, faster playing triggers runs. Low cc1 values trigger the separate pianissimo patch, higher values more vibrato etc. Works really well.
> 
> Here is a piece that I used different string libraries for first, now redone completely with Synchron Strings Pro:


excellent!


----------



## muk

chemie262 said:


> excellent!



Thank you chemie262!


----------



## giwro

muk said:


> Currently I am testing the waters with Synchron Strings Pro. A few days left if I want to return it. I have set up a template. The Synchron Player works pleasantly similar to VI Pro, so I had little difficulties arranging it similarly to my former Dimension Strings template. Soft attacks on legato trigger a portamento, faster playing triggers runs. Low cc1 values trigger the separate pianissimo patch, higher values more vibrato etc. Works really well.
> 
> Here is a piece that I used different string libraries for first, now redone completely with Synchron Strings Pro:


What a lovely nostalgic piece!


----------



## Casiquire

markleake said:


> I just noticed... the library comes with *XF sus* patches where it has longs as CC1 controlled, and shorts as velocity, in the one overall patch. Thanks VSL, this is exactly what I ask asked for a while ago.


With VSL you've had the power all along!


----------



## Casiquire

Michael Antrum said:


> As far as VSL‘ strategies - I think the word to describe them is ‘fluid’. I get the impression that BBO has been more successful than they thought, and that has informed their plans going forward - but that‘s just idle speculation on my part.


If true, it's hilarious that BBO influenced SysP, which then became part of BBO. It's like when Taco Bell came out with a Doritos taco and then Doritos came out with Doritos Taco Bell Flavored Doritos


----------



## JonS

Casiquire said:


> If true, it's hilarious that BBO influenced SysP, which then became part of BBO. It's like when Taco Bell came out with a Doritos taco and then Doritos came out with came out with Doritos Taco Bell Flavored Doritos


I like the part of the BBO libraries that are not simply reduced versions of their Synchron series. I would have preferred more of a sequel to Lyra and Musca without the octaves than a derivative version of Synchron Strings Pro. I think BBO is better when it's not just a sample pack library for the inevitable or already existing Synchron counterparts.


----------



## muk

giwro said:


> What a lovely nostalgic piece!



Thank you giwro!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Casiquire said:


> If true, it's hilarious that BBO influenced SysP, which then became part of BBO. It's like when Taco Bell came out with a Doritos taco and then Doritos came out with came out with Doritos Taco Bell Flavored Doritos



Now that’s what I call a metaphor.....


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

A very brief snippet I rendered in Synchron Strings Pro (default mix + Spaces II), CSS (default mix), Spitfire Symphonic Strings (Performance Legato patches + default mix), and Hollywood Strings Diamond (Mid + Vintage Surround + Spaces II).

What did I learn from this time consuming exercise?

- I really like the sound of Synchron Strings Pro - and I haven't even dived into the different mixes deeply.
- I liked SSS and HS as well. Surprisingly, did not like the sound of CSS when comparing to the others.
- Synchron Strings was SO easy to program in a complicated manner. Meaning, I could take advantage of things like different attacks and releases and agile legato very easily based on how I've set up my patch and articulation map.
- CSS was a pain in the butt to program (and I'm using the Thanos scripter and articulation maps). Using fast legato caused a weird attack volume bump too.
- SSS performance legato patches mean well and are fine to play live with but they obscure everything that is going on, so if you want to take control in the programming, it's almost impossible because you have no idea what sample you're triggering. Also, you can definitely hear the noisy samples - especially at the end when somebody moves in their chair.
- Hollywood Strings sounds awesome but the powerful slur legato patches even cause me issues and I'm on the new top of the line iMac. Also the patch structure makes it a nightmare to setup and program in comparison to Synchron Player. Also, the HS version sounds like the timing of some of the notes are off, but they shouldn't be.


----------



## CT

Interesting. SSS sounds the most musical and alive, to me. And yeah, that comparison really highlights the particular dark tone of CSS.

When you say Synchron was easy to program, do you mean the way in which you set it up to react to your playing, or the process of actually drawing in notes and curves, etc.? Curious how the Synchron player improves on the actual performance experience offered by the old player. I know it was powerful, but I never found it very intuitive to really wrangle all the different articulations together in a way that felt musical to play.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Mike T said:


> Interesting. SSS sounds the most musical and alive, to me. And yeah, that comparison really highlights the particular dark tone of CSS.



I do agree that SSS has a beautiful tone - maybe it sounds alive because of those chair creaking noises in the samples too (you can hear it very clearly at the end). 



Mike T said:


> When you say Synchron was easy to program, do you mean the way in which you set it up to react to your playing, or the process of actually drawing in notes and curves, etc.? Curious how the Synchron player improves on the actual performance experience offered by the old player. I know it was powerful, but I never found it very intuitive to really wrangle all the different articulations together in a way that felt musical to play.



So the way I set up my patches are:
- Note key switches for the main articulation sections (legato, shorts, etc)
- A dimension controller assigned to CC 3 for moving through things like type of short, vibrato style, HT vs WT trill, etc.
- A velocity dimension controller that controls the attack (soft, normal, marcato) across all articulations (where it is applicable)
- Another dimension controller assigned to CC 4 that controls between normal and soft releases

I have an articulation map then that allows me to switch between all of these, including the secondary dimensions, like short type. Because my patches are all consistently setup, I only have to use one articulation map.

I will play everything in with the standard legato patch (or in this case, I wrote it all in with Logic's score editor). And then go in and tweak as needed. The tweaking is what I meant was very easy to program based on how I've set things up. If I want a harder attack for a note, just raise the velocity. If I need a soft release, just put the CC 4 up there. If I want a staccato short for this note and a normal staccato for another, just change the articulation ids. It makes it very fast for me and I know exactly what I'm going to get out of the samples.


----------



## CT

Thanks for the details! That does sound pretty painless.


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> SSS sounds the most musical and alive, to me.



Yes, I agree. SSS sounded very nice and musical. 

But, there are so many variables that come into making a demo with these libraries, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Synch.Strings Pro version can be improved further to sound more musical.


----------



## Saxer

muk said:


> Currently I am testing the waters with Synchron Strings Pro. A few days left if I want to return it. I have set up a template. The Synchron Player works pleasantly similar to VI Pro, so I had little difficulties arranging it similarly to my former Dimension Strings template. Soft attacks on legato trigger a portamento, faster playing triggers runs. Low cc1 values trigger the separate pianissimo patch, higher values more vibrato etc. Works really well.
> 
> Here is a piece that I used different string libraries for first, now redone completely with Synchron Strings Pro:


Sounds wonderful! I don't think you did return SysPro?


----------



## Casiquire

ALittleNightMusic said:


> A very brief snippet I rendered in Synchron Strings Pro (default mix + Spaces II), CSS (default mix), Spitfire Symphonic Strings (Performance Legato patches + default mix), and Hollywood Strings Diamond (Mid + Vintage Surround + Spaces II).
> 
> What did I learn from this pointless exercise?
> 
> - I really like the sound of Synchron Strings Pro - and I haven't even dived into the different mixes deeply.
> - I liked SSS and HS as well. Surprisingly, did not like the sound of CSS when comparing to the others.
> - Synchron Strings was SO easy to program in a complicated manner. Meaning, I could take advantage of things like different attacks and releases and agile legato very easily based on how I've set up my match and articulation map.
> - CSS was a pain in the butt to program (and I'm using the Thanos scripter and articulation maps). Using fast legato caused a weird attack volume bump too.
> - SSS performance legato patches mean well and are fine to play live with but they obscure everything that is going on, so if you want to take control in the programming, it's almost impossible because you have no idea what sample you're triggering. Also, you can definitely hear the noisy samples - especially at the end when somebody moves in their chair.
> - Hollywood Strings sounds awesome but the powerful slur legato patches even cause me issues and I'm on the new top of the line iMac. Also the patch structure makes it a nightmare to setup and program in comparison to Synchron Player. Also, the HS version sounds like the timing of some of the notes are off, but they shouldn't be.


I adore comparisons like this. I don't necessarily think SysP is the most convincing out of all of these. But I do hear the timing issues with HS and I have those same problems with it myself, plus the note onsets aren't entirely convincing with HS either in this example. CSS actually sounds nice in my opinion but not exactly "more musical". SSS might be the best out of these but after that they all have different strengths and none of them pull it off flawlessly. And SSS is very boomy to my ears


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Casiquire said:


> I adore comparisons like this. I don't necessarily think SysP is the most convincing out of all of these. But I do hear the timing issues with HS and I have those same problems with it myself, plus the note onsets aren't entirely convincing with HS either in this example. CSS actually sounds nice in my opinion but not exactly "more musical". SSS might be the best out of these but after that they all have different strengths and none of them pull it off flawlessly. And SSS is very boomy to my ears



Yes, SSS could use some balancing and EQ (all of them could). Horses for courses though - I think SysPro sounds like I want a string section to sound - AND has great sample editing from what I've heard so far (unlike SSS - I've sent Spitfire support a handful of issues and to their credit, they say they have passed those along for fixing, but no ETA). Others will prefer the tone of the others (CSS sounds like it has a low pass filter on it to me, though the sample consistency is good). This is why it is good to have different options - though I do think most people gravitate to one favorite (same goes for the other sections of the orchestra too). I wish the programming usability were better throughout the others (I have SSS setup pretty well for myself in Logic now though - performance legato + the default articulations patch, all switchable via articulation ids).


----------



## JonS

ALittleNightMusic said:


> A very brief snippet I rendered in Synchron Strings Pro (default mix + Spaces II), CSS (default mix), Spitfire Symphonic Strings (Performance Legato patches + default mix), and Hollywood Strings Diamond (Mid + Vintage Surround + Spaces II).
> 
> What did I learn from this time consuming exercise?
> 
> - I really like the sound of Synchron Strings Pro - and I haven't even dived into the different mixes deeply.
> - I liked SSS and HS as well. Surprisingly, did not like the sound of CSS when comparing to the others.
> - Synchron Strings was SO easy to program in a complicated manner. Meaning, I could take advantage of things like different attacks and releases and agile legato very easily based on how I've set up my patch and articulation map.
> - CSS was a pain in the butt to program (and I'm using the Thanos scripter and articulation maps). Using fast legato caused a weird attack volume bump too.
> - SSS performance legato patches mean well and are fine to play live with but they obscure everything that is going on, so if you want to take control in the programming, it's almost impossible because you have no idea what sample you're triggering. Also, you can definitely hear the noisy samples - especially at the end when somebody moves in their chair.
> - Hollywood Strings sounds awesome but the powerful slur legato patches even cause me issues and I'm on the new top of the line iMac. Also the patch structure makes it a nightmare to setup and program in comparison to Synchron Player. Also, the HS version sounds like the timing of some of the notes are off, but they shouldn't be.


They all sound good to me, which is refreshing. You can’t really go wrong with any one of these choices.


----------



## ptram

JonS said:


> You can’t really go wrong with any one of these choices.



In my view, you can. There are two cases:

1) You don't like the sound, even if you recognize it is professionally made and of the highest quality. It just doesn't 'click' on you.

2) You like the sound, but there is something not matching your way of working in the player, the way sustains start and end, the strength and precision of the short notes. You like single notes, but can't find a way to connect more than one to make a composition.

Both cases happen to me with different libraries.

Paolo


----------



## muk

Saxer said:


> Sounds wonderful! I don't think you did return SysPro?



Thank you Saxer! I haven't. Yet? I can still return them today or tomorrow, but I think I wont.


----------



## JonS

ptram said:


> In my view, you can. There are two cases:
> 
> 1) You don't like the sound, even if you recognize it is professionally made and of the highest quality. It just doesn't 'click' on you.
> 
> 2) You like the sound, but there is something not matching your way of working in the player, the way sustains start and end, the strength and precision of the short notes. You like single notes, but can't find a way to connect more than one to make a composition.
> 
> Both cases happen to me with different libraries.
> 
> Paolo


I don’t disagree with you. Some composers will prefer working in Kontakt while others the Synchron player. Sound wise when you realize that music is placed behind dialogue and sound effects I am not so sure a typical listener would ever be able to tell the difference in tone. If a composer feels that a particular library inspires him more or is easier to use then they should work with that library over others. I was simply making the point that any of these libraries can get the job done, that’s all.

I was watching Crimson Tide yesterday and that score could have easily been accomplished with virtual instruments instead of a live orchestra and I don’t think it would have mattered at all.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

ALittleNightMusic said:


> A very brief snippet I rendered in Synchron Strings Pro (default mix + Spaces II), CSS (default mix), Spitfire Symphonic Strings (Performance Legato patches + default mix), and Hollywood Strings Diamond (Mid + Vintage Surround + Spaces II).
> 
> What did I learn from this time consuming exercise?
> 
> - I really like the sound of Synchron Strings Pro - and I haven't even dived into the different mixes deeply.
> - I liked SSS and HS as well. Surprisingly, did not like the sound of CSS when comparing to the others.
> - Synchron Strings was SO easy to program in a complicated manner. Meaning, I could take advantage of things like different attacks and releases and agile legato very easily based on how I've set up my patch and articulation map.
> - CSS was a pain in the butt to program (and I'm using the Thanos scripter and articulation maps). Using fast legato caused a weird attack volume bump too.
> - SSS performance legato patches mean well and are fine to play live with but they obscure everything that is going on, so if you want to take control in the programming, it's almost impossible because you have no idea what sample you're triggering. Also, you can definitely hear the noisy samples - especially at the end when somebody moves in their chair.
> - Hollywood Strings sounds awesome but the powerful slur legato patches even cause me issues and I'm on the new top of the line iMac. Also the patch structure makes it a nightmare to setup and program in comparison to Synchron Player. Also, the HS version sounds like the timing of some of the notes are off, but they shouldn't be.


I also love comparisons like this one. Here I can't even say I have a favorite; each library makes the piece sound superb in their own way. GJ!

Edit:
And no library sounds bad either. That's what I meant too above. I have been critical of SSP earlier, but it does sound very good.


----------



## Ashermusic

In all candor, I don’t remember the last time I listened to a Strings library and thought it sounded bad. Developers are now working at a level where the worst I can say about them is “less to my taste than another.”


----------



## ptram

Ashermusic said:


> In all candor, I don’t remember the last time I listened to a Strings library and thought it sounded bad.


I still love Peter Siedlaczek's early strings!

Paolo


----------



## Kevperry777

ALittleNightMusic said:


> A very brief snippet I rendered in Synchron Strings Pro (default mix + Spaces II), CSS (default mix), Spitfire Symphonic Strings (Performance Legato patches + default mix), and Hollywood Strings Diamond (Mid + Vintage Surround + Spaces II).
> 
> What did I learn from this time consuming exercise?
> 
> - I really like the sound of Synchron Strings Pro - and I haven't even dived into the different mixes deeply.
> - I liked SSS and HS as well. Surprisingly, did not like the sound of CSS when comparing to the others.
> - Synchron Strings was SO easy to program in a complicated manner. Meaning, I could take advantage of things like different attacks and releases and agile legato very easily based on how I've set up my patch and articulation map.
> - CSS was a pain in the butt to program (and I'm using the Thanos scripter and articulation maps). Using fast legato caused a weird attack volume bump too.
> - SSS performance legato patches mean well and are fine to play live with but they obscure everything that is going on, so if you want to take control in the programming, it's almost impossible because you have no idea what sample you're triggering. Also, you can definitely hear the noisy samples - especially at the end when somebody moves in their chair.
> - Hollywood Strings sounds awesome but the powerful slur legato patches even cause me issues and I'm on the new top of the line iMac. Also the patch structure makes it a nightmare to setup and program in comparison to Synchron Player. Also, the HS version sounds like the timing of some of the notes are off, but they shouldn't be.



Thanks for this! Everyone likes different flavors of course.....I use CSS a lot so it sounds just how I’d expect. 
I’m surprised I liked SSS a lot here. SSP continues to be too ‘clean’ sounding for me.


----------



## Kent

Mike T said:


> Interesting. SSS sounds the most musical and alive, to me. And yeah, that comparison really highlights the particular dark tone of CSS.


agree. CSS sounded weirdly 2D here, too.


----------



## novaburst

Mike T said:


> Interesting. SSS sounds the most musical and alive,



I think if you added more velocity to SYS pro you would have nailed it, SSS was very nice did not see to much issue with CSS too

HWS sounded like you did not put to much effort into it but still sounded nice


----------



## Sovereign

I'm not going to sugarcoat this, but out of those four examples, I'd easily pick out SysPro as the least realistic. Regardless of what one thinks of the tone of the library, it's obvious the legato is inferior to all the others (even the aging HWS). VSL could probably fix this to a certain degree if they did not cut into the start of intervals so much as they have, and give the user a legato sample start slider. The slight delay this would introduce is worth the gain in realism for those who desire so. My take.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

novaburst said:


> I think if you added more velocity to SYS pro you would have nailed it, SSS was very nice did not see to much issue with CSS too
> 
> HWS sounded like you did not put to much effort into it but still sounded nice



What does velocity do for SysPro? Isn’t it dependent on how you have your patch setup? In my case, it controls the attack level which I did vary where I felt appropriate.

It’s true I didn’t go in and overly tweak HWS. But the timing issues are due to just poor editing / scripting in the library. You can overcome that by meticulously tweaking, but you don’t need to do as much with other libraries.



Sovereign said:


> I'm not going to sugarcoat this, but out of those four examples, I'd easily pick out SysPro as the least realistic. Regardless of what one thinks of the tone of the library, it's obvious the legato is inferior to all the others (even the aging HWS). VSL could probably fix this to a certain degree if they did not cut into the start of intervals so much as they have, and give the user a legato sample start slider. The slight delay this would introduce is worth the gain in realism for those who desire so. My take.



I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree


----------



## novaburst

ALittleNightMusic said:


> What does velocity do for SysPro? Isn’t it dependent on how you have your patch setup? In my case, it controls the attack level which I did vary where I felt appropriate.



it just felt like it needed more depth, so riding the mod wheel while playing the note would give it movement i guess could be wrong as dont have the library, it just sounded straight no movement


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

novaburst said:


> it just felt like it needed more depth, so riding the mod wheel while playing the note would give it movement i guess could be wrong as dont have the library, it just sounded straight no movement



Probably just due to my poor programming abilities! I think the library has the flexibility.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> I'm not going to sugarcoat this, but out of those four examples, I'd easily pick out SysPro as the least realistic. Regardless of what one thinks of the tone of the library, it's obvious the legato is inferior to all the others (even the aging HWS)



Hmmm... Sorry, but I don't agree, and I hear nothing wrong with the Legatos in SYsPro. Actually I think they are excellent. You must have a Legato Bias for VSL Synch.Strings.Pro. or have some extraordinary Legato Flaw detection hearing ability. I agree though, their Sync.Strings I Legatos were not very good.


----------



## ptram

Sovereign said:


> VSL could probably fix this to a certain degree if they did not cut into the start of intervals so much as they have, and give the user a legato sample start slider.



This would be complimentary to the Legato Blur, acting on the release of the starting note.

I wonder if the Sample Offset Scaler found in the Vienna Instruments Player could do what you are looking for. I'm surprised not to find it in Synchron Player.

Paolo


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> Hmmm... Sorry, but I don't agree, and I hear nothing wrong with the Legatos in SYsPro. Actually I think they are excellent. You must have a Legato Bias for VSL Synch.Strings.Pro. or have some extraordinary Legato Flaw detection hearing ability. I agree though, their Sync.Strings I Legatos were not very good.


Everyone is free to disagree. But arguing it's fine and on par with competing products reduces a developer's incentive to fix flaws, especially if there is plenty of room for improvement. I'd like VSL to improve their products whenever possible, don't you? I don't want them to stand still and think "this is fine, let's stop here" as I am convinced they can create a better product.

The only "bias" I have is that there are other flagship products out there that handle legato better than SysPro. The fact that the legato transitions in SysPro are near-instantaneous should be a good clue that the intervals were cut to an extreme degree. And that impacts realism. I wouldn't have minded a bit of legato transition "lag". And I would disagree these are merely perceived 'defects', they are not in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## Sovereign

ptram said:


> This would be complimentary to the Legato Blur, acting on the release of the starting note.
> 
> I wonder if the Sample Offset Scaler found in the Vienna Player could do what you are looking for. I'm surprised not to find it in Synchron Player.


Precisely, but I don't know if Synchron Player is capable. Especially as it appears to be a removed feature? I only have a good understanding of Kontakt really. I don't know how the sample containers work in Synchron Player or how much of the recordings they contain to accurately guess if they could implement a sample start slider for the legato intervals.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> Everyone is free to disagree. But arguing it's fine and on par with competing products reduces a developer's incentive to fix flaws, especially if there is plenty of room for improvement. I'd like VSL to improve their products whenever possible, don't you? I don't want them to stand still and think "this is fine, let's stop here" as I am convinced they can create a better product.
> 
> The only "bias" I have is that there are other flagship products out there that handle legato better than SysPro. The fact that the legato transitions in SysPro are near-instantaneous should be a good clue that the intervals were cut to an extreme degree. And that impacts realism. I wouldn't have minded a bit of legato transition "lag". And I would disagree these are merely perceived 'defects', they are not in the eye of the beholder.



Hi @Sovereign

I'm not a legato expert, but if you feel you know more than they do about Legato implementation, and how they could improve their current implementation, did you consider emailing them or suggesting a better approach for them ?

Also, don't forget that @Ben the VSL representative is frequently on this forum, and is very helpful, and responsive, why not PM him, so he can relay this to their development team ?

I'm sure they will be interested in improving their Legato if it needs the improvement, then again, I don't hear a major issue with it. But I'm for any further improvements if that is possible/needed.


----------



## ptram

Sovereign said:


> Especially as it appears to be a removed feature?



At least, I can't find a Sample Start slider in Synchron Player. It seems to be a removed feature, unless it is there under a different form. But I would like it was there.

Paolo


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Sovereign said:


> Everyone is free to disagree. But arguing it's fine and on par with competing products reduces a developer's incentive to fix flaws, especially if there is plenty of room for improvement. I'd like VSL to improve their products whenever possible, don't you? I don't want them to stand still and think "this is fine, let's stop here" as I am convinced they can create a better product.
> 
> The only "bias" I have is that there are other flagship products out there that handle legato better than SysPro. The fact that the legato transitions in SysPro are near-instantaneous should be a good clue that the intervals were cut to an extreme degree. And that impacts realism. I wouldn't have minded a bit of legato transition "lag". And I would disagree these are merely perceived 'defects', they are not in the eye of the beholder.



Perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us on what is so objectively bad about the legato and which library in comparison has better legato? Audio examples would be helpful too. Because I have a number of string libraries and don't think Synchron Strings Pro has defective legato.


----------



## william81723

Sovereign said:


> I'm not going to sugarcoat this, but out of those four examples, I'd easily pick out SysPro as the least realistic. Regardless of what one thinks of the tone of the library, it's obvious the legato is inferior to all the others (even the aging HWS). VSL could probably fix this to a certain degree if they did not cut into the start of intervals so much as they have, and give the user a legato sample start slider. The slight delay this would introduce is worth the gain in realism for those who desire so. My take.


I have Sys1 and upgraded it to SysPro at end of Sep.I finally refunded it.
The reason is what you point out in this thread.
The sound is really awsome but the legato is still fake.
These days I ever felt a little bit regret because I saw that everyone is complimenting it.
But!!! After I heard the comparison of four strings,I confirmed that my point is right.
I still love VSL.Their synchron pianos are unbeatable but the strings really don't satisfy me.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Sovereign said:


> Synchron Player is capable.



Start offset exists on the Synchron Player Edit Page.


----------



## muziksculp

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Start offset exists on the Synchron Player Edit Page.



Yes. Under Options (Check link below).





__





Edit Tab | VSL - Software Manuals







www.vsl.info





https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/synchron-player/edit-tab#options



*Start Offset Mode (Patch Slot only):* Sets which samples should be affected by the Wave Start Offset parameter (below). Options: All, First, Repetition, Legato, Repetition-Legato.
*Wave Start Offset (Patch Slot only):* Sets sale start offset in milliseconds. Any value above 0 will skip the corresponding first part of the played sample. Range: 0-1 sec.
*Start Offset Attack (Patch Slot only):* Creates a fade-in (in ms) in case Wave Start Offset is applied, to avoid clicks. Range: 5-100 ms


----------



## jamwerks

With String libraries, having the option between fingered legato & bow-change legato is important imo. It allows to really vary & and shape the "emotion". IINM, SSS & HS are the only ones with this feature?


----------



## ptram

Ops, sorry, I have not looked in the right place. So, while it is no longer under a fader, it can still be set at patch level, and allow customization, if needed.

Paolo


----------



## ptram

jamwerks said:


> IINM, SSS & HS are the only ones with this feature?


At least some of the old VI libraries have both (at the moment I don't remember if all of them). In the Orchestral Strings, what SA calls "fingered" should be called "slurred" (since it is notated with a slur).

I've still to understand how portamento and fingered/slurred legato are different, as for the perceived effect.

Paolo


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I think the legato is fine. Many people are used to legato being quite a bit portamento or very slurred in sample libraries. VSL doesn't do that, never did. The legato in SySS isn't terribly different from the legato in Appassionata or Dimension Strings.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

ptram said:


> At least some of the old VI libraries have both (at the moment I don't remember if all of them). In the Orchestral Strings, what SA calls "fingered" should be called "slurred" (since it is notated with a slur).
> 
> I've still to understand how portamento and fingered/slurred legato are different, as for the perceived effect.
> 
> Paolo



Fingered legato is „slurred“ and is played with a slur. VSL‘s use of the term „slurred“ is wrong and misleading. These patches have a bit of portamento, which is good for fast runs or to imitate a finger position change (like playing on the string „sul“).

VSL‘s philosophy is that the sonic difference isn‘t that much of importance and good players hide bow changes. So there is no bowed legato. If you want the effect you could play with the starting note, with layering patches or use detache. Solo Strings have a dedicated Detache Performance Legato.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> the sonic difference isn‘t that much of importance and good players hide bow changes.



Precisely.


----------



## CT

jamwerks said:


> With String libraries, having the option between fingered legato & bow-change legato is important imo. It allows to really vary & and shape the "emotion". IINM, SSS & HS are the only ones with this feature?



SCS has it as well. 

I agree that it's desirable to have access to, as the goal isn't *always* for the type of transition to be unidentifiable. However true it is that good players can "hide" it, it's also a very common way of making changes in phrasing more perceptible. You wouldn't play notes under a slur together in the same way as the final note in that slur to the first of another slurred phrase... if the composer wanted that seamless sound, they'd mark it that way.


----------



## Zero&One

Sound fine to my lugs, using Chris Sui's midi "Common Orchestral Doublings & Combinations (Explored)"


----------



## ptram

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> So there is no bowed legato. If you want the effect you could play with the starting note, with layering patches or use detache. Solo Strings have a dedicated Detache Performance Legato.


So, if I understand correctly, there are two ways to do bow change: retrigger a note with a minimal distance from the preceding one, or use the performance repetition patches.

Paolo


----------



## Ben

ptram said:


> So, if I understand correctly, there are two ways to do bow change: retrigger a note with a minimal distance from the preceding one, or use the performance repetition patches.
> 
> Paolo


If you have problems gtting the timing use the sustain pedal (mono-legato only). It will have the same effect as overlapping the notes of different pitch.


----------



## Sovereign

ptram said:


> Ops, sorry, I have not looked in the right place. So, while it is no longer under a fader, it can still be set at patch level, and allow customization, if needed.


Only seems to accept positive values, aside from the default ones. So no way to push the sample start further back. Only forward.


----------



## Sovereign

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us on what is so objectively bad about the legato and which library in comparison has better legato? Audio examples would be helpful too. Because I have a number of string libraries and don't think Synchron Strings Pro has defective legato.


If you parse my words carefully you should be able to tell what I meant with perceived 'defects'. Merely shortcomings. I also never used the word "bad". I don't think SysPro is "bad" overall, and I quite like a few things about it. If I thought it was "bad" I would not have repurchased SysPro. As for audio examples, see below for what I think is good or superb legato. Give it a try with SysPro if you feel you can match the level of expression and smoothness. I cannot really comprehend the position that all libraries are equally capable in terms of legato performance, which is more than questionable. CSS set the standard for great sounding legatos and in my opinion, nothing touches it.

Why? It does the important things right. CSS retained as much of the intervals as possible, before and after the destination note, and uses it to great effect.
SysPro appears to cut more deeply into at least a part of these transitions. It helps to make it (very) playable but hurts realism in the end. So yeah, I think there's room for improvement here, for example by perhaps giving users more control over how much of the interval is heard even if that means some delay while playing. And who wouldn't want such an option, if it could be implemented? More power to the user.







Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I think the legato is fine. Many people are used to legato being quite a bit portamento or very slurred in sample libraries. VSL doesn't do that, never did. The legato in SySS isn't terribly different from the legato in Appassionata or Dimension Strings.


I don't necessarily consider my point an issue about it being very slurred or less slurred. It's about how much they 'physically' cut into the intervals to make it more playable.


----------



## ptram

Sovereign said:


> Only seems to accept positive values, aside from the default ones. So no way to push the sample start further back. Only forward.


There is a Delay option at the start of the envelope. Maybe this can delay the note after the end of the legato?

Another option I’m thinking on is slowing the attack a little. It's the exact mirror of the Legato Blur parameter.

EDIT: Maybe I misunderstood you. You probably don't want the target note to start later, but the legato to last longer.

Paolo


----------



## Sovereign

ptram said:


> There is a Delay option at the start of the envelope. Maybe this can delay the note after the end of the legato?
> 
> Another option I’m thinking on is slowing the attack a little. It's the exact mirror of the Legato Blur parameter.


Hmm, well I'm trying here right now, but no matter what I do it does not seem to affect the sample start of the legatos.  It's something VSL should seriously consider (if the additional audio is there in the sample containers).


----------



## Sovereign

ptram said:


> EDIT: Maybe I misunderstood you. You probably don't want the target note to start later, but the legato to last longer.


Yes, but especially the start of the interval, to bring in more of the pre-transient if you can call it that. To retain as much of the natural transition from one note to another as possible. The downside would be lag while playing but if it's user-adjustable the user can decide how they want to play. And just to reiterate for the people at VSL, this is heartfelt criticism. It's not meant to bash the product in any way. I seriously feel it would improve it tremendously.


----------



## holywilly

Just curious what is the best legato would be? And what libraries achieve that?


----------



## Erik

ptram said:


> Eirk, if you have time for it, may you also let us hear a demo of this piece with the Standard version, but with a more distant Room Mix?
> 
> Paolo


Hi Paolo,
I missed your post last week, but here you are. The DistantRoom mix this time


----------



## ptram

Erik said:


> The DistantRoom mix this time



Thank you very much! Very interesting to see how more 'cinematic' it sounds than the Standard/Close perspective.

Compared to the full version with all the mics, the Standard/Room-Mix versions sounds lighter, with less low frequencies and less body. I wonder if this is for the lack of some mics (in particular, the Back Row ones), or the reduced presence of the Close and Mid mics.

Paolo


----------



## muziksculp

@Sovereign ,

Would it be possible for you to graphically show what you want the legato control to achieve in relation to the legato transition between two notes.


----------



## hayvel

Hey guys. Have spent some time with these strings now and all in all I am really happy to have them in my arsenal. They are my main strings library now. 

I have however one issue with the legato marcato patch. It seems to be not possible to play repeated short notes in fast succession, The marcato attack is only retriggered if i leave a fairly huge gap between notes. Can you owners of SSP confirm this, and does anyone know if there is a way to decrease that timeframe? 

I can imagine that it would be unusual to be played like this in the real world (would be more like a staccato), but I would love to have an all in one patch for quick writing and I constantly stumble over the missing sharp attack in certain situations...


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

muziksculp said:


> @Sovereign ,
> 
> Would it be possible for you to graphically show what you want the legato control to achieve in relation to the legato transition between two notes.


I understand what he wants, but it's not possible. A legato control only makes sense with longer, exaggerated legato transitions, but the ones from VSL are already edited/cut very short. They always did it this way. The only way for achieving this is time-stretching. The Synchron Player doesn't have it for legato at this point, only VI Pro. Or maybe, because portamento is stretchable. I don't know...


----------



## Ben

hayvel said:


> I have however one issue with the legato marcato patch. It seems to be not possible to play repeated short notes in fast succession, The marcato attack is only retriggered if i leave a fairly huge gap between notes.


This is by design. But you can easily create a patch that will work for fast pasages:
1: Copy Stacc Agile




2: Click on the "+" on the Legato agile articulation




3: Paste the short below the legato




4: Activate Stacked mode and set slot controller to Dim C




5: Set Parallel mode in the EDIT menu to "Mix" for the Legato. The stacc must stay on XFade





Now you can control the intensity of the stacc via CC3.

!!! Make sure to set the "Velocity Crossfade" property of both slots in the EDIT area to the same value - if you want it controlled by CC1 set both to "on", if you want it controlled by note velocity set it to "off". If you programm quick runs and passages using note velocity will probably be the better solution (both to off).


----------



## Ben

You can also experiment with legato + sfz or legato + detache. I have achieved really great results this way with the BBO Brass for fanfare like figures.


----------



## muziksculp

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> The only way for achieving this is time-stretching. The Synchron Player doesn't have it for legato at this point, only VI Pro.



Interesting. 

So, does VI Pro offer time-stretching control of only the Legato-Transition ? 

I think libraries like CSS with quite long legato transitions, very long leg-transition when you select the advanced legato, and medium legato length when selecting the standard legato, both require dialing in a reasonably high value of negative delay compensation to be playable in synch with the DAWs time grid, and to complicate life even further, it requires dialing in different values for the delays based on the note's velocity. (not my cup of coffee when it comes to practically using legato). 

VSL Legatos don't require us to dial in any negative delay compensation for the track when using legato, which is a big plus. 

Do you think if the Synchron Player gets a time stretch function that can adjust the legato transition length, it will be able to deliver even better sounding, more realistic legato ?


----------



## Beans

Ben said:


> This is by design. But you can easily create a patch that will work for fast pasages



Gosh, I love Synchron Player. How about some new libraries?


----------



## Ben

Beans said:


> Gosh, I love Synchron Player. How about some new libraries?


I'm already playing around with something new - so stay tuned


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

muziksculp said:


> Interesting.
> 
> So, does VI Pro offer time-stretching control of only the Legato-Transition ?
> 
> I think libraries like CSS with quite long legato transitions, very long leg-transition when you select the advanced legato, and medium legato length when selecting the standard legato, both require dialing in a reasonably high value of negative delay compensation to be playable in synch with the DAWs time grid, and to complicate life even further, it requires dialing in different values for the delays based on the note's velocity. (not my cup of coffee when it comes to practically using legato).
> 
> VSL Legatos don't require us to dial in any negative delay compensation for the track when using legato, which is a big plus.
> 
> Do you think if the Synchron Player gets a time stretch function that can adjust the legato transition length, it will be able to deliver even better sounding, more realistic legato ?



Yes, there are presets for only legatos and portamentos. There also is a video on time-stretching, it's one of the VI Pro videos on the VSL website.

In my opinion, it's not needed, only in certain, well exaggerated situations where a portamento is too long. Or you can use a sul patch as in Dimension Strings.


----------



## method1

SYS1 has a lovely legato slur patch that deserves more love


----------



## muziksculp

Ben said:


> I'm already playing around with something new - so stay tuned



Now that's exciting news, but what could it be.

Honestly, I wish it's Synchron Strings (sordino) Pro, or Synchron Solo Strings Pro, or Synchron Woodwinds Pro, or Synchron Brass Pro. But I have a feeling it's none of these, but rather more for the BBO line, and Hopefully not another Synchronized Library.


----------



## hayvel

Ben said:


> This is by design. But you can easily create a patch that will work for fast pasages:
> 1: Copy Stacc Agile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2: Click on the "+" on the Legato agile articulation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3: Paste the short below the legato
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4: Activate Stacked mode and set slot controller to Dim C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5: Set Parallel mode in the EDIT menu to "Mix" for the Legato. The stacc must stay on XFade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you can control the intensity of the stacc via CC3.
> 
> !!! Make sure to set the "Velocity Crossfade" property of both slots in the EDIT area to the same value - if you want it controlled by CC1 set both to "on", if you want it controlled by note velocity set it to "off". If you programm quick runs and passages using note velocity will probably be the better solution (both to off).



Thank you very much Ben. I really appreciated the detailed explanation. It sort of works, but it is still a mix of a polyphonic short articulation that does retrigger on every keystroke and a monophonic legato articulation, and the cc control is a manual way to do something that could be automatic behaviour. It works to do this manually on slower passages but for fast agile melodies that vividly vary between staccato, legato with hard attack and soft continuous legato, this is not very practical. I know, we have been at this point already. 😉 And I apologize for being so stubborn here.

I mean, point is, it is almost there with the legato marcato. It behaves perfectly like I thought it should. But there is always some tiny caveat, the last 2% to function as an all in one performance patch is not right, which is, in this case, the need to leave a long pause between two sharp notes.

Btw, my mail to the VSL support team from a few weeks go is still unreplied. Any advise?

Again, I really appreciate your help here, don't get me wrong.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

hayvel said:


> Thank you very much Ben. I really appreciated the detailed explanation. It sort of works, but it is still a mix of a polyphonic short articulation that does retrigger on every keystroke and a monophonic legato articulation, and the cc control is a manual way to do something that could be automatic behaviour. It works to do this manually on slower passages but for fast agile melodies that vividly vary between staccato, legato with hard attack and soft continuous legato, this is not very practical. I know, we have been at this point already. 😉 And I apologize for being so stubborn here.
> 
> I mean, point is, it is almost there with the legato marcato. It behaves perfectly like I thought it should. But there is always some tiny caveat, the last 2% to function as an all in one performance patch is not right, which is, in this case, the need to leave a long pause between two sharp notes.
> 
> Btw, my mail to the VSL support team from a few weeks go is still unreplied. Any advise?
> 
> Again, I really appreciate your help here, don't get me wrong.



There's no such thing as "automatic behavior" - you have to define when you want the scripting to do what you want, in any library. With Synchron Player, you get to define it though, as Ben has shown. If you find using CC 3 is too cumbersome, then use velocity to switch between the attack style.


----------



## Ben

hayvel said:


> Btw, my mail to the VSL support team from a few weeks go is still unreplied. Any advise?


Please PM me your email address and I'll look into it.


----------



## Ben

ALittleNightMusic said:


> There's no such thing as "automatic behavior" - you have to define when you want the scripting to do what you want, in any library. With Synchron Player, you get to define it though, as Ben has shown. If you find using CC 3 is too cumbersome, then use velocity to switch between the attack style.


Yes, simply replace the slot Controller with another one, for example H and set it to Velocity. In the Controller area you can now fine-tune the response-curve making it super simple to have note-velocity sensitive attack.


----------



## hayvel

ALittleNightMusic said:


> There's no such thing as "automatic behavior" - you have to define when you want the scripting to do what you want, in any library. With Synchron Player, you get to define it though, as Ben has shown. If you find using CC 3 is too cumbersome, then use velocity to switch between the attack style.



Of course there is automation, the marcato legato patch is a perfect example of automated triggering of marcato or legato transition based on the way of playing without any manual cc action. Yes, that is scripted, and yes, I would want to exactly do what you say, define where and how this behavioir is applied. 

But that is my point, this is not accessible for the user. Making the necessary pause between marcato attacks shorter or applying mono legato behaviour to a non-legato articulations to mix with legato articulations would provide solutions, but both is not possible, and that is my request here.

I also get there are workarounds to make it sound this way somehow, but I believe it could be solved much more playable and elegant, so I am raising my request here as a suggestion for improvement. I think workarounds are a sign of something to improve, and I really like the library and would love to see it become even better.


----------



## Sovereign

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I understand what he wants, but it's not possible. A legato control only makes sense with longer, exaggerated legato transitions, but the ones from VSL are already edited/cut very short. They always did it this way. The only way for achieving this is time-stretching. The Synchron Player doesn't have it for legato at this point, only VI Pro. Or maybe, because portamento is stretchable. I don't know...


It really depends on how editing was done and what remains of the audio in the sample containers. In Kontakt libraries not all developers cut the audio before the sample start of the recorded intervals, you can move the start slider back depending on how much audio is there. Obviously we don't know what sort of editing was done by VSL and how their editor works. However, if the sample start is a 'hard' edit, with nothing remaining before it, that would suck tremendously and would make the request not possible. Also, I get the impression VSL is avoiding this discussion which is too bad since it involves improving their product.


----------



## AndyP

hayvel said:


> Hey guys. Have spent some time with these strings now and all in all I am really happy to have them in my arsenal. They are my main strings library now.
> 
> I have however one issue with the legato marcato patch. It seems to be not possible to play repeated short notes in fast succession, The marcato attack is only retriggered if i leave a fairly huge gap between notes. Can you owners of SSP confirm this, and does anyone know if there is a way to decrease that timeframe?
> 
> I can imagine that it would be unusual to be played like this in the real world (would be more like a staccato), but I would love to have an all in one patch for quick writing and I constantly stumble over the missing sharp attack in certain situations...


Good point! I would like to reduce the intensity, volume of the marcato a bit, so that it starts quieter when the key is played again.


----------



## Zero&One

Sovereign said:


> Also, I get the impression VSL is avoiding this discussion which is too bad since it involves improving their product.



I don't they are avoiding anything. This isn't the VSL official support forum, Ben just helps out as much as he can.
Probably to his own detriment sometimes. I think he's sometimes better off ignoring these threads like most other Devs do.

I get where you are coming from, why wouldn't we want things better? I agree. But I'm not sure this is the place to voice it. Just like folk asking Ben to "do away with dongles" is equally pointless on here, but it still happens.

I bet VSL wish they had released it without legato sometimes. Make it an expansion.


----------



## Beans

Zero&One said:


> I bet VSL wish they had released it without legato sometimes. Make it an expansion.



I completely agree with your post except for this, which I do not understand.


----------



## Ben

Zero&One said:


> I don't they are avoiding anything. This isn't the VSL official support forum, Ben just helps out as much as he can.
> Probably to his own detriment sometimes. I think he's sometimes better off ignoring these threads like most other Devs do.
> 
> I get where you are coming from, why wouldn't we want things better? I agree. But I'm not sure this is the place to voice it. Just like folk asking Ben to "do away with dongles" is equally pointless on here, but it still happens.


You pretty much nailed it. 
Also keep in mind that I don't want and don't can disclose everything.

As I wrote a while back: We do read feedback and discuss it - even if we can't always give you feedback on your recommendations. But a lot of it makes it to our internal wish-list, and others inspires new ideas.



Zero&One said:


> I bet VSL wish they had released it without legato sometimes. Make it an expansion.


How about: "Build-your-own-perfect-legato Expansion - Select from 128.576 wave snippets and create your perfect legato"
But for real: You can't make it perfect for everybody. We had received a handful comments over how over-the-top the legatos sound and SY Strings I legatos are the real deal. Then we got again a handful comments that the legatos are not smooth/portamento enough 
- And then there is so much positiv feedback saying we delivered exactly the legato the users wanted.
So I'm really confident that we nailed the legato in this library for most users - including myself (I could play these cellos all day long...). But like I said, you can't make it right for everyone...


----------



## hayvel

Honestly, these strings sound absolutely great and I am almost puzzled by the pricetag. The quality, amount of 'relevant' content and usability/playability are top. That includes the many legato styles.

I also have no doubt that the developers at VSL are professional enough to understand the deeper meaning behind the 'complains' and take it as valuable feedback.

So, to steer this in a new direction, how are you processing the sound logically and sonically? Do you keep it as is (using microphone levels) or do you use certain included/external processing to match a specific sound?

Also, how do you tweak or combine patches using the Synchron Player's toolset (besides adding attack to legato 😉).

I have started experimenting with a layer of minor trill (with short envelope) and legato to make a more slurred run patch e.g.. What do your tweaks and setups look like?


----------



## Noeticus

Ben of VSL is a superhero on this forum as far as I am concerned.

Best Wishes to you Ben!


----------



## WalterB

ptram said:


> Compared to the full version with all the mics, the Standard/Room-Mix versions sounds lighter, with less low frequencies and less body. I wonder if this is for the lack of some mics (in particular, the Back Row ones), or the reduced presence of the Close and Mid mics.



Are the Room Mix presets different between the Standard and Full versions?
(For example the Room Mix Wide for the Full version would have surround mics mixed in, and the Room Mix Wide for Standard does not?)

I'm liking the Standard version, but wonder about eventually upgrading to the Full.


----------



## Ben

Noeticus said:


> Ben of VSL is a superhero on this forum as far as I am concerned.
> 
> Best Wishes to you Ben!


Many thanks!


----------



## ptram

WalterB said:


> Are the Room Mix presets different between the Standard and Full versions?



They should be the same. But with the Full version you can replace them with a custom mix of the various room mics. And you can add the Back Row mics, completely missing from the Standard version. I expect that this additional set of close mics can make the sound beefier.

With the BBO libraries I very often use only the Decca Tree mics as the room mics, because I like a closer perspective. But I understand that the Synchron idea of holistic sound gets it full meaning from the full set of mics.

Paolo


----------



## ptram

I like very much that VSL supplied a set of presets with the longs controlled via CC1 and the shorts via velocity. I usually put these switches in the expression map/articulation set, but being free to use the same map with different presets, depending on the preferences for a piece, is very handy.

As usual, however, I'm creating my own presets and a universal map, to be used with all the instruments of the strings section. This should make editing of the map, and the linking of techniques in Dorico, much easier. The presets have the same structure, despite the different ranges of keyswitches, so editing them is very easy.

Paolo


----------



## Casiquire

@Sovereign i do respect your opinion and hear the short legato you're referring to, but to me it sounds fairly realistic for a more traditional classical ensemble who would try to get to the next note as directly as possible with as little transition rather than the hyper stylized cinematic sound we've grown accustomed to here.


----------



## ptram

Sovereign said:


> would make the request not possible.



Another thing to try, without changing the sample start: using the dynamic time-stretching feature to change the speed of the legato. Not tried, yet, but in theory it should work.

In any case, I doubt the result will be the same as in Cinesamples' libraries. Very different philosophy as the background. SSP can possibly match the length of the legato in CSS, but the sound will still be too different to be a complete match.

Paolo


----------



## muziksculp

Hi, 

I'm a bit fuzzy as far as how to best use the *Time Stretching* feature of the Synchron Player. 

So.. How useful is the Synchron Player's time stretching feature, what type of articulations can I use it on ? 

Could it be used on both Long, and Short articulations, what about using it on Legatos, ..etc. ? or is it just meant to be used on phrase type articulations ? 

Any tips on how to best use this feature would be very useful. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## method1

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm a bit fuzzy as far as how to best use the *Time Stretching* feature of the Synchron Player.
> 
> So.. How useful is the Synchron Player's time stretching feature, what type of articulations can I use it on ?
> 
> Could it be used on both Long, and Short articulations, what about using it on Legatos, ..etc. ? or is it just meant to be used on phrase type articulations ?
> 
> Any tips on how to best use this feature would be very useful.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp



It's quite similar to the way some Kontakt libraries have it implemented with time machine patches.
You can make shorts shorter or longer etc, try it on the detache patch for example. It also works on the portamentos to speed up the transition. The way to use it in these cases is to not use sync and just set a faster or slower destination bpm. It's also handy for Synchron FX strings with the patches that are played to specific tempos (tempos are documented in the manual) or speed up and slow down glissandi.


----------



## muziksculp

method1 said:


> It's quite similar to the way some Kontakt libraries have it implemented with time machine patches.
> You can make shorts shorter or longer etc, try it on the detache patch for example. It also works on the portamentos to speed up the transition. The way to use it in these cases is to not use sync and just set a faster or slower destination bpm. It's also handy for Synchron FX strings with the patches that are played to specific tempos (tempos are documented in the manual) or speed up and slow down glissandi.



Thanks for the feedback @method1, 

I will test the Time Stretch feature in the Synchron Player on various articulations, and see how that goes. 

Although I remember that last time I attempted to test it, I got some odd clicks, and pops in the audio, and didn't bother to use it any further. Maybe I didn't use it correctly ? or .. ?


----------



## Ben

muziksculp said:


> Although I remember that last time I attempted to test it, I got some odd clicks, and pops in the audio, and didn't bother to use it any further. Maybe I didn't use it correctly ? or .. ?


The feature is very demanding on CPU, especially when used with multiple mic positions. The pops and clicks should be gone in offline-rendering.


----------



## method1

muziksculp said:


> Although I remember that last time I attempted to test it, I got some odd clicks, and pops in the audio, and didn't bother to use it any further. Maybe I didn't use it correctly ? or .. ?



It gets quite CPU intensive, especially with more mic positions.
EDIT: Looks like Ben had his tempo set faster than mine


----------



## muziksculp

Ben said:


> The feature is very demanding on CPU, especially when used with multiple mic positions. The pops and clicks should be gone in offline-rendering.



Hi @Ben ,

OK, So, limit the number of mics, maybe just one mic to avoid the pops and clicks. I guess the Time Stretching function is happening in real time, hence the high CPU utilization. So, it is kind of limited in terms of usefulness, since I don't want to hear clicks when using it. 

Regarding offline-rendering, you mean bouncing the Time Stretched midi region/track to audio ?

Does the Time Stretching feature have any impact of legato transition length ? 

Thanks.


----------



## jamwerks

No time stretching or other would "remedy" for missing audio at the start of the samples. Who knows, in another library they might decide to do a slow legato including more milliseconds before the hitpoints. As is I'm pretty happy with the legato here, but do love CSS for their slow legato.


----------



## Ben

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Ben ,
> 
> OK, So, limit the number of mics, maybe just one mic to avoid the pops and clicks. I guess the Time Stretching function is happening in real time, hence the high CPU utilization. So, it is kind of limited in terms of usefulness, since I don't want to hear clicks when using it.
> 
> Regarding offline-rendering, you mean bouncing the Time Stretched midi region/track to audio ?
> 
> Does the Time Stretching feature have any impact of legato transition length ?
> 
> Thanks.


We recommend to work with 1-2 mic positions, then load the mixer preset you want to use and freeze the track / bounce it.
It will also render pop/click free during mixdown/export.

Time-Stretch will influence the transitions as well, but we did not tune it for this use-case (yet) - so we don't know how it will sound.


----------



## muziksculp

Ben said:


> We recommend to work with 1-2 mic positions, then load the mixer preset you want to use and freeze the track / bounce it.
> It will also render pop/click free during mixdown/export.
> 
> Time-Stretch will influence the transitions as well, but we did not tune it for this use-case (yet) - so we don't know how it will sound.



OK. Thank You for your prompt response, and great support on this forum.  

I will test the Time Stretch in Synchron Player, and see how things go.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

On Synchron Player Time Stretch, make sure to use the proper CC automation to target note transitions, otherwise the vibrato of the middle of the notes (plus releases) might be adversely affected.


----------



## muziksculp

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> On Synchron Player Time Stretch, make sure to use the proper CC automation to target note transitions



I'm not very clear on what you are trying to say here.

What's a not proper CC and what's a Proper CC for targeting the note transitions ?

Can you explain what you mean in a bit clearer fashion for my brain to absorb properly.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

muziksculp said:


> I'm not very clear on what you are trying to say here.
> 
> What's a not proper CC and what's a Proper CC for targeting the note transitions ?
> 
> Can you explain what you mean in a bit clearer fashion for my brain to absorb properly.




Ahh, certainly.





A value of 64 equals no stretching. Higher values increase the speed, lower of course decreases the speed of the sample. Targeting the transitions like this may help achieve smoother results, along with note overlap, legato blur, and articulation choice.

EDIT: note also that there is in fact Time Stretching on the C natural on the right side of the screenshot. For whatever reason, this slightly-slower vibrato was contextually satisfactory.


----------



## muziksculp

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Ahh, certainly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A value of 64 equals no stretching. Higher values increase the speed, lower of course decreases the speed of the sample. Targeting the transitions like this may help achieve smoother results, along with note overlap, legato blur, and articulation choice.



Hi @Stephen Limbaugh ,

OK. I got it. I was thinking you were referring to a specific CC # that needs to be assigned for the time stretch, rather than the value of the time-stretch CC . 

Thanks for the helpful illustration, and explanation.


----------



## ptram

I've finally had a chance to play with the SSP. Legato is fine for me. It is fast, as in general the character of this library. It's the opposite of Cinestrings: where those are fat and slow, these are slim and fast. Big Hollywood drama vs. Neo-Expressionism.

Time-stretch, while admittedly not yet optimized for this kind of things, can help with gently smoothing the transition, but not with the overall character of the sound.

This is the unaltered legato:

Unaltered

This is with time-stretch continuously working (considering what the engine is doing, a jaw-dropping result, if I can say):

Time-stretched

Paolo


----------



## holywilly

I find the Molto Vibrato (aka cantabile) legato sounds pretty beefy. It can be played in both fast & slow, it’s my go to legato for Synchron Strings.


----------



## Yury Tikhomirov

Any final conclusion regarding flexibility and sound of SYSP in comparison to HS Diamond? Different enough, filling the same ground, complimentary?


----------



## Beans

Yury Tikhomirov said:


> Any final conclusion regarding flexibility and sound of SYSP in comparison to HS Diamond? Different enough, filling the same ground, complimentary?



Complementary, for me. Apples and oranges are both fruits, but you don't reach for an apple when you want an orange.

Same here! Different room/tone, different section sizes.


----------



## muziksculp

ptram said:


> I've finally had a chance to play with the SSP. Legato is fine for me. It is fast, as in general the character of this library. It's the opposite of Cinestrings: where those are fat and slow, these are slim and fast. Big Hollywood drama vs. Neo-Expressionism.
> 
> Time-stretch, while admittedly not yet optimized for this kind of things, can help with gently smoothing the transition, but not with the overall character of the sound.
> 
> This is the unaltered legato:
> 
> Unaltered
> 
> This is with time-stretch continuously working (considering what the engine is doing, a jaw-dropping result, if I can say):
> 
> Time-stretched
> 
> Paolo



Thanks for the demos showing how the time-stretching can improve the legato. 

Q. So, did you enable time stretching and play it in real time ? or ... ? I'm curious to know how you actually applied the time-stretching function here. Any details on the process would be very helpful.


----------



## ptram

muziksculp said:


> So, did you enable time stretching and play it in real time ? or ... ?



"Or"! I've drawn the automation for CC34, corresponding to stretching variation. In the examples posted by Stephen, stretching is used as a local switch. I tried varying it smoothly, making the change slow and gradual. The maximum variation reached corresponding to the transition between legato notes.

The on/off switch is a much more savvy idea, but I found that the gradual change can be interesting for also slightly changing the vibrato speed near the end/start of each note.

Paolo


----------



## ptram

Incidentally: can someone do this test, to let my understand if I have a local problem, or it is a general one?

Load a Violins I preset. Insert some Release automation (it is CC23 by default, in VSL presets). Write legato lines (use Legato, not Legato Agile, to comply with my situation).

Do you hear a very short break between notes, each time an articulation change via keyswitches is sent? Is there a short 'hole' between legato notes? Is this reset when reloading the sound again?

Paolo


----------



## JTB

ptram said:


> Incidentally: can someone do this test, to let my understand if I have a local problem, or it is a general one?


I can confirm that after inserting release automation below 30 I can hear an audible gap between notes using the V1 regular vibrato legato patch. The same gap occurs when switching arts.
It seems that the CC23 slider is affecting the release sample, not the release envelope. This is probably why the gap occurs.


----------



## ptram

JTB said:


> I can confirm that after inserting release automation below 30 I can hear an audible gap between notes using the V1 regular vibrato legato patch. The same gap occurs when switching arts.
> It seems that the CC23 slider is affecting the release sample, not the release envelope. This is probably why the gap occurs.


Thank you very much! Yes, it seems to be the release sample being cut. I hope this will be recognized as a bug, and fixed soon!

Paolo


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Sovereign said:


>





Here are two VERY different mix approaches (and a very quick program...) for the Elgar using SSP.


----------



## Sovereign

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Here are two VERY different mix approaches (and a very quick program...) for the Elgar using SSP.


Not bad at all, Stephen. Well done. I still think the legatos could be smoother and improved though, but that's up to VSL to take into consideration. Which mixes did you use here? The first one has more body, the second one sounds thinner.


----------



## Minsky

Markrs said:


> Just saw the YouTube videos for this. Probably out of my price range but very interested to hear other peoples thoughts on it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYNCHRON STRINGS PRO - Vienna Symphonic Library
> 
> 
> Synchron Strings Pro represents the next generation of sampled string ensembles, fusing artistic expression, a wealth of detailed articulations, natural note transitions and sonic excellence within a resource-friendly, easy-to-use product.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vsl.co.at



I’m interested in them too. Pretty expensive, as you’d expect. I’ve found VSL hard to get a realistic sound from ..I have to learn. Actually they have an ‘academy’ to teach it ... but that’s even more expensive!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Here are two VERY different mix approaches (and a very quick program...) for the Elgar using SSP.



You see, the problem here is that it's Elgar. 

You could perform Elgar on the spoons and kazoo, and it would still make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up....


----------



## Ben

Minsky said:


> Pretty expensive, as you’d expect.


Have you checked the product page and especially the price-tag yet?



Minsky said:


> Actually they gave an ‘academy’ to teach it


That was not us, but a partner company focused on education - and it was for the VI instruments, not the Synchron Series.


----------



## Ben

Oh btw, sale ends today because tomorrow starts the BF deal. So if you are still on the fence, go get them now and if you are not happy you can return it within 14 days (if purchased from our website)


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Sovereign said:


> Not bad at all, Stephen. Well done. I still think the legatos could be smoother and improved though, but that's up to VSL to take into consideration. Which mixes did you use here? The first one has more body, the second one sounds thinner.



C'mon... you know the legato in that Elgar sounds _great_ lol. 🤣

In this recording with live players, the first two notes at 3:23 don't sound that smooth, nor does the high B to A at 3:45, nor the viola at 3:57.



In fact, this ensemble takes the _molto e string._ so fast/loud that they run out of bow, hence the noticeable "lump" in the 1sts at 3:45. Someone emulating this performance with samples can leave this lump in, or they can take the impossible approach. So what is more "real" in this case: ignoring physically-necessary bow changes or a naturally-occurring lumpy legato transition?


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Michael Antrum said:


> You could perform Elgar on the spoons and kazoo, and it would still make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up....



Don't shoot me, but I actually really dislike this piece. 😬🙈 Elgar and Brahms, for whatever reason, never get me excited/enthused no matter how many times I listen.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Don't shoot me, but I actually really dislike this piece. 😬🙈 Elgar and Brahms, for whatever reason, never get me excited/enthused no matter how many times I listen.



Burn Him !


----------



## Ben

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Don't shoot me, but I actually really dislike this piece. 😬🙈 Elgar and Brahms, for whatever reason, never get me excited/enthused no matter how many times I listen.


I must confess that I am not so familiar with Elgar, but how dare you say anything against Brahms?!? 
Brahms is my favorite composer; the symphony no 3 was one of the reasons why I started loving classical music!


----------



## NoamL

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Here are two VERY different mix approaches (and a very quick program...) for the Elgar using SSP.



Nice Stephen! and no doubt you could make it sound even better with more time.

There are three things that stick out to me here (which have nothing to do with your programming). First, I've just not heard any string library except CSS do portamentos right... they're too exaggerated and in bad taste (just my opinion) in most other libraries, Secondly, Synchron's stereo image & separation between sections is very bold, which can be a good or bad thing depending on the music. Probably not great for chamber music but very good for big symphonic writing. Third is something surprising about Synchron. I don't really hear that qualitative difference between violins and the violas&cellos that makes the string orchestra such an interesting "sandwich" of flavors. The latter are way too glassy and bodyless for me. I want them to have more warmth and fullness... and the viola having its own color always helps clarify the inner polyphony of dense romantic writing like this.


----------



## ptram

Ben said:


> I must confess that I am not so familiar with Elgar, but how dare you say anything against Brahms?!?



Anybody who has been a kid, one time or the other, can't but love the author of the Wiegenlied!

Paolo


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Ben said:


> I must confess that I am not so familiar with Elgar, but how dare you say anything against Brahms?!?
> Brahms is my favorite composer; the symphony no 3 was one of the reasons why I started loving classical music!



I know I know... I'll go stand in the corner now.


----------



## ptram

JTB said:


> I can confirm that after inserting release automation below 30 I can hear an audible gap between notes using the V1 regular vibrato legato patch.



Solved: the default, no-change, value for release (both in Synchron Player and Vienna Instruments) is '64' or '63'. So, anything nearing '0' will cut the release entirely.

Paolo


----------



## JTB

NoamL said:


> Nice Stephen! and no doubt you could make it sound even better with more time.
> 
> There are three things that stick out to me here (which have nothing to do with your programming). First, I've just not heard any string library except CSS do portamentos right... they're too exaggerated and in bad taste (just my opinion) in most other libraries, Secondly, Synchron's stereo image & separation between sections is very bold, which can be a good or bad thing depending on the music. Probably not great for chamber music but very good for big symphonic writing. Third is something surprising about Synchron. I don't really hear that qualitative difference between violins and the violas&cellos that makes the string orchestra such an interesting "sandwich" of flavors. The latter are way too glassy and bodyless for me. I want them to have more warmth and fullness... and the viola having its own color always helps clarify the inner polyphony of dense romantic writing like this.


I am a little bit over all the praise for CSS. I have been to their site 10 to 15 times and always come away asking myself "what is the deal with everybody liking this library so much?".
To me it is way too thick and bogged down in low mids. I get fatigued listening to the demos. I would rather have the natural highs available like in SSP in order to be able to cut them later if needs be. CSS seems to offer that low punch that people seem to associate these days with impact. If the melody is good then the impact will be there.

SSP is a library for subtleties, nuance and gentle airy passages that can build gradually into something more fierce and formidable. And the articulations provide the composer with a palette that never leaves them wanting.

CSS is good for background music at best or, from what I have heard, 1:30 mock-ups of carefully selected passages from much larger more intricate and dynamic pieces. CSS is a game composers string library for music that is rarely even listened to by people more interested in racking up frags or finding the key to the goblins lair. Harsh, I know. 

If someone could change my mind with a demo that demonstrates this libraries ability to accurately portray some of the music that is in the VSL site demos (NOT 1:30 of one passage in one part of one song), I would be quite happy to be proven wrong because there is a 25% off sale at the moment.


----------



## Sovereign

JTB said:


> CSS is good for background music at best or, from what I have heard, 1:30 mock-ups of carefully


Ridiculous.


----------



## JTB

ptram said:


> Solved: the default, no-change, value for release (both in Synchron Player and Vienna Instruments) is '64' or '63'. So, anything nearing '0' will cut the release entirely.
> 
> Paolo


Excellent. Now what is the default, no-change, value for Stretch Factor?


Sovereign said:


> Ridiculous.


I need evidence. Not one word responses. 
Cheers.


----------



## Sovereign

JTB said:


> I need evidence. Not one word responses.


Nope, not going there. Your statement is so utterly silly that I am not even going to bother giving a more detailed response. And I don't want to dilute the Synchron thread with further unpleasantries either.


----------



## Ben

JTB said:


> Excellent. Now what is the default, no-change, value for Stretch Factor?
> 
> I need evidence. Not one word responses.
> Cheers.


64


----------



## JTB

Sovereign said:


> Nope, not going there. Your statement is so utterly silly that I am not even going to bother giving a more detailed response. And I don't want to dilute the Synchron thread with further unpleasantries either.


I appreciate that you will no longer be diluting this thread with unpleasantries.


----------



## ptram

JTB said:


> Excellent. Now what is the default, no-change, value for Stretch Factor?



64. This time I did it right!

Paolo


----------



## jamwerks

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> C'mon... you know the legato in that Elgar sounds _great_ lol. 🤣
> 
> In this recording with live players, the first two notes at 3:23 don't sound that smooth,


Isn't that just because he's changing bows, understanding the slur more as a phrasing slur than a bowing slur?


----------



## ptram

jamwerks said:


> Isn't that just because he's changing bows, understanding the slur more as a phrasing slur than a bowing slur?



Both Violins are starting from an open G. What we hear is, therefore, the passage between an open and a fingered string.

Paolo


----------



## Ashermusic

JTB said:


> I am a little bit over all the praise for CSS. I have been to their site 10 to 15 times and always come away asking myself "what is the deal with everybody liking this library so much?".



1. It's subjective.

2. We like what we like, and we don't what we don't. 

You can't define why or codify it. If you could there would be only a couple of successful ones in the marketplace.

I think it has a great sound, although lately I am using it less than some others.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

So what is the verdict on these strings for most , now that the initial AMAZING GAME CHANGER OMG MUST HAVE, went and changed to UGGGH WHY DID I BUY THIS MESS ITS ONLY GOT 45 DYNAMIC Layers to the sensible, somewhere in the middle position ?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I may have missed this, but is there a way to control the portamento speed / amount (transition volume)?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Ashermusic said:


> 1. It's subjective.
> 
> 2. We like what we like, and we don't what we don't.
> 
> You can't define why or codify it. If you could there would be only a couple of successful ones in the marketplace.
> 
> I think it has a great sound, although lately I am using it less than some others.



Exactly.

I don't like the sound of Pianoteq. But I don't feel the need to call people who disagree ridiculous. I might politely voice a different view, but calling a different view 'utterly silly' is just impolite, especially when it is a completely subjective statement in the first place.


----------



## Michael Antrum

ka00 said:


> It's true that we like what we like.
> 
> But why are you misquoting him? Did you not read what he was referring to when he said "ridiculous"? Go back and you will see he replied to a statement that "CSS is good for background music at best", which is a ridiculous statement. He didn't say the person was ridiculous for not liking a library he liked.
> 
> Anyway, very off topic.



When you reply with a single word adjective, how do you know to what that adjective is being applied ? That is ambiguous. However, the 'utterly silly' comment was not, and it was rude.

But I do agree, very off topic, and let's get this thread back on track....


----------



## Ashermusic

Michael Antrum said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I don't like the sound of Pianoteq. But I don't feel the need to call people who disagree ridiculous. I might politely voice a different view, but calling a different view 'utterly silly' is just impolite, especially when it is a completely subjective statement in the first place.



I would actually though say the opposite is also true. Saying "I don't understand why anybody likes xyz" about a really popular library is simply bad manners.


----------



## Minsky

Ben said:


> Have you checked the product page and especially the price-tag yet?
> 
> I bought them!
> 
> That was not us, but a partner company focused on education - and it was for the VI instruments, not the Synchron Series.



VSL should do their own. This is not inexpensive stuff and it'd be a big hit to be able to properly learn how to get the best out of it -#usersforlife.


----------



## maestro2be

Ashermusic said:


> 1. It's subjective.
> 
> 2. We like what we like, and we don't what we don't.
> 
> You can't define why or codify it. If you could there would be only a couple of successful ones in the marketplace.
> 
> I think it has a great sound, although lately I am using it less than some others.


I agree with this. I have tried to like what I don't like because others told me it was good. It didn't work. I also like what I like and don't need to quantify why I do. I always feel better in the end going with what I like versus buying because someone told me this other product was better than what I like.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

In response to Noam's thoughtful comments regarding the portamento...

Attached is an example of the usefulness of the longer transition from note-to-note.

Mimicking this video's interpretation:






Mine is played *LIVE* with my custom-matched Synchronized Dimension Strings on the sul G patches for added juice. The first portamento pretty damn close to the Eschenbach recording above.






Other options would include blending the portamento with the _molto vibrato_ in SSP, which can sometimes yield a satisfactory result. Playing these in one by one instead of a quick live demonstration would sound great.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

jamwerks said:


> Isn't that just because he's changing bows, understanding the slur more as a phrasing slur than a bowing slur?



Weird place to plan a bow change 🤷🏻‍♂️... there’s a decresc there in the other sections... so I assumed the lack of one in the 1sts is a score mistake being that the next bar doesn’t have a _subito_ _piano_ indicated. 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Sovereign said:


> Which mixes did you use here? The first one has more body, the second one sounds thinner.



VSL has been preparing some additional mixing presets that greatly darken the sound via EQ, saturation, and some panning changes. I will see if I can share them here!


----------



## Ben

Sure, why not. Here we go:

Simply Copy over the folder in the zip file to
C:\Users\USERNAME\Documents\VSL\Vienna Synchron Player\Presets\
/Users/USERNAME/Documents/VSL/Vienna Synchron Player/Presets/

You will then see the instrument presets in the user area in the Synchron Player's instrument preset area.


----------



## JTB

Ashermusic said:


> I would actually though say the opposite is also true. Saying "I don't understand why anybody likes xyz" about a really popular library is simply bad manners.


"What is the deal with everybody liking this library so much?" is what I asked. Please don't miss quote me. And, in context, while there are people in this thread singing praise for CSS and the astounding legato and basically everything CSS, I was hoping these someones could provide a link to a full length, or at least 4 minute piece/mock-up using CSS. But it seems these people singing all this praise cannot. Which leaves me to believe that it is not capable of such things. Whereas SSP, after such a short time, has many excellent demos, some of which led me to purchase it in the first place.


----------



## [email protected]

Last weekend I pulled the trigger also on Synchron Strings I because I wanted to have more options. I am now planning on "merging" the two libraries via expression maps in Cubase. For this I need to know which recorded articulations from Synchron Strings I were "recycled". I found the list on VSL's webpage about the different/same articulations in both libraries but no information abou if it's new recording in PRO or not. Does anyone know if such a lists exists or can maybe @Ben provide one? Would be very helpful and much appreciated!


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

[email protected] said:


> recorded articulations from Synchron Strings I were "recycled".



SS1 "Cantabile" = SSP "Molto Vibrato" ....this was the only one that was transferred over. Everything else, legatos, shorts, pizz, etc, are all new recordings.

In fact, if you play the Cantabile and Molto Vibrato simultaneously, you will hear the phase.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Ben said:


> Sure, why not. Here we go:
> 
> Simply Copy over the folder in the zip file to
> C:\Users\USERNAME\Documents\VSL\Vienna Synchron Player\Presets\
> /Users/USERNAME/Documents/VSL/Vienna Synchron Player/Presets/
> 
> You will then see the instrument presets in the user area in the Synchron Player's instrument preset area.


Do they work with Synchron Strings I, too? I can‘t load them. Or I‘m doing something wrong. 

I had the same issue with the BBO presets you posted somewhere.


----------



## JTB

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Do they work with Synchron Strings I, too? I can‘t load them. Or I‘m doing something wrong.
> 
> I had the same issue with the BBO presets you posted somewhere.


Worked OK here. What do you mean you can't load them?. Are they showing up in your instrument presets (left column) in the Synchron player?.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

JTB said:


> Worked OK here. What do you mean you can't load them?. Are they showing up in your instrument presets (left column) in the Synchron player?.


Yes, I can't see them. Maybe I used the wrong folder ... I'm on Mac OS. Synchron Player automatically created a custom folder for Synchron Strings I. I put them in there. Do I need to restart the host?


----------



## JTB

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Yes, I can't see them. Maybe I used the wrong folder ... I'm on Mac OS. Synchron Player automatically created a custom folder for Synchron Strings I. I put them in there. Do I need to restart the host?


Yup. Paste the entire '02 Synchron Strings Pro' onto the presets folder in the VSL folder in your documents. They should show up after a restart of VE Pro or your host DAW. 

I assume you know how to copy paste Root Slots in the Synchron Player?.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

JTB said:


> Yup. Paste the entire '02 Synchron Strings Pro' onto the presets folder in the VSL folder in your documents. They should show up after a restart of VE Pro or your host DAW.
> 
> I assume you know how to copy paste Root Slots in the Synchron Player?.



Thanks, it worked. I was looking at the wrong place. I thought it was under mixer presets, not presets in general. 🙈


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I have to say that I really like this cinematic mixer presets. Amazing how versatile the library is.

Unfortunately I returned SSP, because I didn't like any of the mixes, and not because of the playability.

If someone could make a preset for this recording would be great: 

I really like the sound in this video. Maybe there are presets for this sound already available. Maybe I'm deaf.


----------



## Ben

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> SS1 "Cantabile" = SSP "Molto Vibrato" ....this was the only one that was transferred over. Everything else, legatos, shorts, pizz, etc, are all new recordings.
> 
> In fact, if you play the Cantabile and Molto Vibrato simultaneously, you will hear the phase.


Not exactly correct. But you can find this information in detail here: https://www.vsl.info/instruments/synchron/strings-pro#comparison-sy-i-pro


----------



## Ben

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Do they work with Synchron Strings I, too? I can‘t load them. Or I‘m doing something wrong.


No, it's a Synchron Strings Pro instrument preset. You could try to rebuild the setup for the Synchron Strings I, but I don't know what the result will be (we have not tested this yet).

Oh, and you don't have to restart the DAW / Synchron Player. The presets should appear automatically, if not right click on the "User" folder in the instrument preset browser and select "Refresh".


----------



## [email protected]

@Stephen Limbaugh and @Ben Thanks for the replies. I wasn't aware that the "both libraries" column lists also the identical recordings. So where they "polished" for Synchron Strings Pro? I tend to include the versions from SS I if they have more dynamic layers.


----------



## Ben

[email protected] said:


> So where they "polished" for Synchron Strings Pro?


Yes, they were adapted to match the sound and style of the Synchron Strings Pro. In general we did not change the number of articulations with the exception that we put the harsh shorts into a separat articulation, so it's easier to control the sound.


----------



## ptram

Since I've finally completed my presets and expression map for Dorico, I had to do an experiment. I took a mockup made for the classic VI edition, and immediately adapted it to the Synchron Strings Pro.

No mix editing, no editing on the attacks and release, nor on techniques. It's just the old score, with a different set of orchestral string sounds, and everything translated by Dorico's maps.

Solo strings and winds are all the old VI through MIR. Shame there isn't yet a set of MIRx-mode presets for Synchron Wide, making matching SSP with the old libraries easier. I did what my limited skills could do.

Just an experiment, nothing more.

Paolo

Wagner, Tristan und Isolde, Prelude to Act III, VI/SSP


----------



## JTB

ptram said:


> Since I've finally completed my presets and expression map for Dorico, I had to do an experiment. I took a mockup made for the classic VI edition, and immediately adapted it to the Synchron Strings Pro.
> 
> No mix editing, no editing on the attacks and release, nor on techniques. It's just the old score, with a different set of orchestral string sounds, and everything translated by Dorico's maps.
> 
> Solo strings and winds are all the old VI through MIR. Shame there isn't yet a set of MIRx-mode presets for Synchron Wide, making matching SSP with the old libraries easier. I did what my limited skills could do.
> 
> Just an experiment, nothing more.
> 
> Paolo
> 
> Wagner, Tristan und Isolde, Prelude to Act III, VI/SSP


This translated really well. A good choice of piece for SSP. It does 'Winter' really well this library. Isolde must have been one-icy-dame.
If you don't mind telling me, which solo strings did you use and where?. Were they stacked?, I couldn't tell.


----------



## ptram

JTB said:


> This translated really well. A good choice of piece for SSP. It does 'Winter' really well this library. Isolde must have been one-icy-dame.



SSP are really on the cold, transparent side of the things. But that's VSL's signature. A bit like AKG: "colder" than Neumann, indispensable when absolute neutrality and fidelity is required.

All the other sounds in this experiment are the old VSL libraries. A solo cello is layered with orchestral cellos in the beginning, and a solo cello and solo viola can be heard in the two solo episodes after the violins going toward the sky.

Paolo


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Ben said:


> Not exactly correct. But you can find this information in detail here: https://www.vsl.info/instruments/synchron/strings-pro#comparison-sy-i-pro



I blame Kopf for the inaccurate info. 😆


----------



## Dietz

ptram said:


> Shame there isn't yet a set of MIRx-mode presets for Synchron Wide, making matching SSP with the old libraries easier.


They are just around the corner ...


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh

Dietz said:


> They are just around the corner ...



This is the best news of the day!


----------



## Dietz

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> This is the best news of the day!


Don't hold your breath, though. I finished the work on all the settings, but I don't know how fast they can get implemented, in days like these.


----------



## JTB

Anyone here got Berlin Strings. If they could chime in about how similar or different, they are tonally to SSP that would help a lot. From the demos they sound quite similar and if so I would probably skip their sale. I have been eying them off for quite a while but if they don't add anything particularly unique to my palette, I will give them a miss.


----------



## Beans

I'm genuinely curious what has people interested in Berlin Strings despite most user posts I've seen say that there are better options out there unless you quite specifically need the extra techniques.

Do that many people actually need the extra techniques? Are they hoping to get a free SINE upgrade some day? Are their PCs absolute beasts?

I ask this as a huge fan of BWW and fan of other OT releases like JXL Brass and Modus.


----------



## Rubens Tubenchlak

Ben said:


> Sure, why not. Here we go:
> 
> Simply Copy over the folder in the zip file to
> C:\Users\USERNAME\Documents\VSL\Vienna Synchron Player\Presets\
> /Users/USERNAME/Documents/VSL/Vienna Synchron Player/Presets/
> 
> You will then see the instrument presets in the user area in the Synchron Player's instrument preset area.


Thank you Ben, I could download but couldn't install. Found the folder you mentioned but didn't worked out. Attached a screenshot. Please help! :-(


----------



## stfciu

Beans said:


> I'm genuinely curious what has people interested in Berlin Strings despite most user posts I've seen say that there are better options out there unless you quite specifically need the extra techniques.
> 
> Do that many people actually need the extra techniques? Are they hoping to get a free SINE upgrade some day? Are their PCs absolute beasts?
> 
> I ask this as a huge fan of BWW and fan of other OT releases like JXL Brass and Modus.


I have the same feeling. I was really keen to pull the trigger on Berlin series thinking it is one of a kind opportunity to get the best libraries available out there at present sale but then I started to analyze it in more details and compared to other alternatives. It is true there are better options frequently at much better price imo however this doesn't mean berlin is off. It is still great library but it just don't justify the cost. For example I think present VSL line and estimated future releases based on the synchron concept is far superior to berlin series. And VSL actually listens to the users, wink @Ben


----------



## Beans

Rubens Tubenchlak said:


> Thank you Ben, I could download but couldn't install. Found the folder you mentioned but didn't worked out. Attached a screenshot. Please help! :-(



Here's a tip: save your own preset for Synchron Strings Pro. Anything. You don't even need to change anything. Give it a name you can easily search for, like "123XYZ."

Then search for that on your computer. Wherever that is, put the one Ben provided in the same place.


----------



## JTB

Rubens Tubenchlak said:


> Thank you Ben, I could download but couldn't install. Found the folder you mentioned but didn't worked out. Attached a screenshot. Please help! :-(


Make sure to look at the left column in the Synchron Player (Instruments) NOT the right Mixer Presets column.


----------



## JTB

stfciu said:


> I have the same feeling. I was really keen to pull the trigger on Berlin series thinking it is one of a kind opportunity to get the best libraries available out there at present sale but then I started to analyze it in more details and compared to other alternatives. It is true there are better options frequently at much better price imo however this doesn't mean berlin is off. It is still great library but it just don't justify the cost. For example I think present VSL line and estimated future releases based on the synchron concept is far superior to berlin series. And VSL actually listens to the users, wink @Ben


Yeah, I like where VSL are going with this pro thing at the moment. I think when they give us WW Pro and Brass Pro it is going to be the bees knees. Berlin may be getting edged out ever so slightly. Maybe the guys at OT have realised this as well.


----------



## JTB

Beans said:


> I'm genuinely curious what has people interested in Berlin Strings despite most user posts I've seen say that there are better options out there unless you quite specifically need the extra techniques.
> 
> Do that many people actually need the extra techniques? Are they hoping to get a free SINE upgrade some day? Are their PCs absolute beasts?
> 
> I ask this as a huge fan of BWW and fan of other OT releases like JXL Brass and Modus.


I think Berlin Strings is a Kontakt instrument no?. Because if it is now a Sine thing, that for sure is a deal breaker.


----------



## Rubens Tubenchlak

Beans said:


> Here's a tip: save your own preset for Synchron Strings Pro. Anything. You don't even need to change anything. Give it a name you can easily search for, like "123XYZ."
> 
> Then search for that on your computer. Wherever that is, put the one Ben provided in the same place.


That's what I needed, thank you!


----------



## Beans

JTB said:


> I think Berlin Strings is a Kontakt instrument no?. Because if it is now a Sine thing, that for sure is a deal breaker.



It is Kontakt. But some people seem to be picking up Berlin's older libraries in part because there's a hope that they'll continue porting everything to SINE (with updates to the libraries along with it), and provide said upgrade free of charge as with the Ark series thus far.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Synchron Player is more interesting than SINE in terms of all you can do with it. I also feel that Synchron Strings Pro have less of that historical VSL “cold, sterile” sound and something much more appealing for modern times, not to mention all that control over attacks and releases, vibrato type, mixes. Hopefully they release other section libraries soon!


----------



## ptram

ALittleNightMusic said:


> all that control over attacks and releases, vibrato type, mixes.



These are not only in Synchron Player, however. They have been in Vienna Instruments for as far as I can remember. Synchron Player has an improved way of crossfading between different patches, however, so that you can mix not only between n.v. and vib., but between n.v., vib. and molto vib.

Paolo


----------



## JTB

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Synchron Player is more interesting than SINE in terms of all you can do with it. I also feel that Synchron Strings Pro have less of that historical VSL “cold, sterile” sound and something much more appealing for modern times, not to mention all that control over attacks and releases, vibrato type, mixes. Hopefully they release other section libraries soon!


SSP is the boss. Even with Berlin strings at 50% off, I am completely disinterested. And considering I have been teetering for about a year on buying BS, that is saying quite a lot. 

Tonally, SSP is exactly what I was after. European, not hyped, natural, expressive, consistent, no bugs, great player and from company that I have come to trust with their excellent support and business ethic. 
Pretty much ticking all boxes from my standpoint.


----------



## Michael Antrum

JTB said:


> SSP is the boss. Even with Berlin strings at 50% off, I am completely disinterested. And considering I have been teetering for about a year on buying BS, that is saying quite a lot.
> 
> Tonally, SSP is exactly what I was after. European, not hyped, natural, expressive, consistent, no bugs, great player and from company that I have come to trust with their excellent support and business ethic.
> Pretty much ticking all boxes from my standpoint.



Funny you should say that, becuase that's exactly how I feel. I missed out on the oringinal Berlin 40% sale as the timing wasn't great for me, and swore that if it ever happened again I wouldn't hesitate to jump on it.

But now the sale is here, I have decided to pass, in fact, with the exception of the Cubase 11 upgrade and the upcoming Aliens full score book, I've pretty much deicded to skip BF completely.

The BBO libraries I bought during the year, and the new SSP have totally spoilt me now. All I want to see are new Synchron Woods & Brass do to the same standard next year....


----------



## Babe

SSP is not going to replace BS as my main string library. The agile legatos are very detailed in SSP. I don't particularly care for the cellos in SSP.


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder if VSL has a new Synchron Library coming in December ?


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## markit

Ben said:


> Found the missing humanization presets myself just yesterday and talked to the colleague who creates these presets about it. This should be fixed with the coming Synchron Player update.
> 
> Regarding the Attack of Agile Legato: It makes no sense to have soft + agile legatos, but for consistency - so you can quickly change between normal and agile legato - the slot where the soft legato would have been is set to a copy of the agile legato.


Hey @Ben! I was wondering if there was any update regarding this? What do you suggest setting the preset to for the time being?


----------



## muziksculp

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if VSL has a new Synchron Library coming in December ?



Given we are 4 days away from 2021. I guess I can answer my own question. 

No, there isn't any new Synchron Library coming in December.  

Now if they just surprise us by releasing Synchron Woodwinds Pro or Brass Pro in Jan.


----------



## holywilly

Whatever VSL is releasing in 2021, my vouchers are ready!

I was wondering do people use the presets by VSL or make the custom presets for Synchron Strings Pro? I think it’s fun to share presets with SSP owners, what do you guys think?


----------



## Ben

markit said:


> Hey @Ben! I was wondering if there was any update regarding this? What do you suggest setting the preset to for the time being?


You can choose any of the available presets. I'll talk to our devs as soon as they are back


----------



## Beans

That looks like verification to me that Synchron Woodwinds are coming on the first day of 2021.


----------



## Michael Antrum

holywilly said:


> Whatever VSL is releasing in 2021, my vouchers are ready!



I think we've got to be looking at Synchron Brass and Woodwinds this year - thought exactly when is probably in the lap of the gods. I don't really want the Social Distance Philharmonic Orchestra, thanks all the same - I'd rather wait.

But I would also be thrilled with a full Synchron Harp library. The Synchronized SE version is great as far as it goes - but the harp is one of my favourite instruments and I'd love a full Synchron version with all the trimmings.



Beans said:


> That looks like verification to me that Synchron Woodwinds are coming on the first day of 2021.



I'd be thrilled if you are right.....


----------



## holywilly

Thanks to the new MIR Synchron update, I have a Synchron orchestra 

Beside Synchron brass and woodwinds, my personal wish VSL will have Synchron percussion III that contains exotic percussions and of course the long awaited marimba.

Back to Synchron Strings Pro, I’ll share my customs presets which I designed for minimum keyswitch.


----------



## SlHarder

I found this post in the VSL SynchronStringsPro forum that definitively answered a question I had re the Room mix in Std vs Full.

The Std Room mix contains the Surround ambiance.


----------



## JTB

I would like a wet Synchron Chamber library. Enough with the EPIC MOVIE MAHEM please.


----------



## Casiquire

JTB said:


> I would like a wet Synchron Chamber library. Enough with the EPIC MOVIE MAHEM please.


I was hoping for Synchron Intense, with 400 first violinists beating their strings with jackhammers


----------



## Michael Antrum

Casiquire said:


> I was hoping for Synchron Intense, with 400 first violinists beating their strings with jackhammers


Since it's Austrian, you could call it Schwarzenegger Strings - has a bit of a ring to it.....


----------



## ptram

SlHarder said:


> The Std Room mix contains the Surround ambiance.


But keep in mind that it is pre-mixed, and you can't do your own mix. However, the available presets do already cover a lot of grounds.

I only have the Standard version of SSP and Strings FX, and am happy with it. My custom presets mostly deal with close and Decca mics, with that hint of RoomMix to add a touch of outriggers.

But the Full set of mics in the BBO libraries makes one understand the infinite sound-shaping possibilities added by being able to access the individual mics.

Paolo


----------



## ptram

JTB said:


> I would like a wet Synchron Chamber library. Enough with the EPIC MOVIE MAHEM please.


Not exactly what you are looking for, but I would suggest trying the Synchronized Dimension Strings, if you have not yet done it. While being a different philosophy from Synchron, Dimension libraries are already multi-mic samples, and have an added, er, dimension.

Paolo


----------



## muziksculp

holywilly said:


> Thanks to the new MIR Synchron update, I have a Synchron orchestra



I didn't check my updates, what does the MIR Synchron Update offer ? and is this also for MIR-Pro ?


----------



## SlHarder

ptram said:


> I only have the Standard version of SSP and Strings FX, and am happy with it.


Considering your compositional skills your comment assures me that Std will be far beyond my current needs as a hobbyist, but there's no harm in my dreaming that "one day ..." I will be making good use of it. So it will be my holiday splurge for this year.


----------



## fduncan

Hello All,

My first post here. I'm a hobbyist and I'm considering to purchase my first VSL library, a string library. However I'm confused beetween Synchron Strings Pro & Synchron Strings I. 

Both have the same price (Standard versions). Which one is the better library ? SSP because it's newer or SSI because it has more dynamics layers ? I'm leaning towards SSP because I prefer the audio demos but they're only demos... In the end it's rather subjective but your opinions sure would not hurt me. Thanks a lot.


----------



## muziksculp

SSP


----------



## fduncan

muziksculp said:


> SSP


 Sometimes one word is better than 1000, thanks


----------



## Ben

fduncan said:


> Hello All,
> 
> My first post here. I'm a hobbyist and I'm considering to purchase my first VSL library, a string library. However I'm confused beetween Synchron Strings Pro & Synchron Strings I.
> 
> Both have the same price (Standard versions). Which one is the better library ? SSP because it's newer or SSI because it has more dynamics layers ? I'm leaning towards SSP because I prefer the audio demos but they're only demos... In the end it's rather subjective but your opinions sure would not hurt me. Thanks a lot.


We recommend to start with SY Strings Pro.


----------



## richhickey

fduncan said:


> Hello All,
> 
> My first post here. I'm a hobbyist and I'm considering to purchase my first VSL library, a string library. However I'm confused beetween Synchron Strings Pro & Synchron Strings I.
> 
> Both have the same price (Standard versions). Which one is the better library ? SSP because it's newer or SSI because it has more dynamics layers ? I'm leaning towards SSP because I prefer the audio demos but they're only demos... In the end it's rather subjective but your opinions sure would not hurt me. Thanks a lot.



SSI is a far better sounding strings library, one of the best, IMO. SSP is full of compromises but has a larger articulation set.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

richhickey said:


> SSI is a far better sounding strings library, one of the best, IMO. SSP is full of compromises but has a larger articulation set.



SSP sounds wonderful IMO.


----------



## muziksculp

richhickey said:


> SSI is a far better sounding strings library


No. But that's my opinion.


----------



## richhickey

TBH, while I'm a big fan of VSL, SSP does little to distinguish itself vs other string libs, vs SSI, which did a lot. And the direction of VSL vis a vis Synchron I (II?)/Pro/BBO is a muddle they refuse to clarify. If you are considering SSP you might want to wait for Audiobro Modern Scoring Strings next month. Also consider Berlin [regular or Symphonic] Strings, although you just missed a sale on the former.


----------



## holywilly

muziksculp said:


> I didn't check my updates, what does the MIR Synchron Update offer ? and is this also for MIR-Pro ?


Synchron Stage room pack in MIRx mode in MIR Pro.


----------



## Ben

richhickey said:


> And the direction of VSL vis a vis Synchron I (II?)/Pro/BBO is a muddle they refuse to clarify


I have explained it already in countless threads/posts, just look it up.


----------



## fduncan

Thank you all for your advice


----------



## richhickey

Ben said:


> I have explained it already in countless threads/posts, just look it up.



First of all, it's pretty disingenuous to suggest "go through my 1800 messages" when, if the policy was clear, you could restate it in less time than it would take me, a customer, to do that.

Second, I have paid close attention to your posts already.

Third, what you've said:





__





SS1 + SSPro


Hi, I've tried to make a unified preset of Synchron Strings 1 (SS1) and Synchron Strings Pro (SSPro). Here it is. I started from the SSPro preset. Preset 1st violins For the patches coming from SS1, I've changed the Humanize tuning from "V1" to "V6" since it is the one used by SSPro. For some...




vi-control.net








__





VSL Synchron Strings Pro


Super-slow wifi speed at this hotel, but I'm downloading and installing gradually over the course of a week, and my new 4 TB SSD just arrived today. I think it was stated "somewhere" on this forum within the past year, that the Dimension products don't make sense to re-do as fresh Synchron...




vi-control.net








__





Synchron Strings Pro


Pre launch? And you shouldn't have to trudge through forums to find that sort of info out. I didn't read his specific case, merely commenting on sample company transparency (see OT and their 1RR plucked strings in Phoenix) ..but VSL is the one company where you can buy/try/return or even...




vi-control.net








__





Synchron Strings Pro


Anytime you listen to a recording of an orchestra, or even listening to them through mics, you are no longer listening to “natural.” Yes, Jay, of course. Don't you think I take that into account when I form a definition of the word "natural" to use in this particular context?




vi-control.net








__





Whither Synchron Orchestra?


I'm from the US so I don't need to pay VAT, if it's included in the price for VSL that's actually not a great thing for me ... Lyra and Musca are directly comparable to Ark 1 High and Low strings, if you can't see that I don't know what to say. I know this is a grey area, but if you can not pay...




vi-control.net





In short:

"There's a reason for both libs" - doesn't say what.
Will there be a unified patch set for SSI/SSP? - "no".
Is this SSII? - "It was called that internally but... no SSPro"
What's the plan for Synchron? - "stay tuned"
Snarky "I know what's coming you don't, eats popcorn" remarks

All this after the initial SSP release talk which featured "new recordings" prominently until called out on the fact that it was a lot of SSI repackaging too.

If you've said anywhere whether or not there'll be a Synchron Strings II completing SSI with the same dynamics etc approach and compatible patches, prove it.


----------



## Michael Antrum

You might wish consider the possibility that as an employee of the company, Ben isn't permitted to announce things just to satisfy your requirements.

I've been reading the OT BSS thread too, and this place is becoming ever more ill mannered. If this carries on, it'll end up like Gearslutz....


----------



## muziksculp

I just noticed there was a minor library update for Synchron Strings Pro on Dec. 4th. 

Here are the notes of the update :

December 4th, 2020

Synchron Strings Pro Library Update 02
Download files:

B24_Synchron-Strings-Pro_Stereo_Update02_SPv1_w1.vsldownload

Fixed: Slightly detuned F4/F#4 notes in the following patches: 09 VI-14 detache, 09 VI-10 detache
Fixed: Some loop points in all instruments


----------



## richhickey

Michael Antrum said:


> You might wish consider the possibility that as an employee of the company, Ben isn't permitted to announce things just to satisfy your requirements.



I fully understand that. I just said the plan was muddled, i.e. confusing. It's marketing 101 that switching from a numeric scheme to "Pro" is confusing - the two naming schemes aren't compatible. And neither are the libraries. And no official explanation of how Synchron strings proceeds has been made.

It's Ben, the employee, who jumped on me, the customer. I wasn't talking to him.

As a customer, with both of VSL's high-end Synchron string libraries, which don't work together, and no roadmap, I have no idea what to think, and Ben's assertion that he's explained it all is specious. Ben has not in fact explained it, yes, maybe because he can't, but therefor it remains confusing for customers. He should not claim otherwise.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

richhickey said:


> SSI is a far better sounding strings library, one of the best, IMO. SSP is full of compromises but has a larger articulation set.


I have to agree, but I don't like the shorts at all. And, in my opinion, the legatos in their dry libraries are still much better. I bought/tested/returned both SSP and many BBO libraries, and I can't warm up to the sound. SSI sounds different and I prefer it's sound to SSP/BBO.

The cantabile update drastically altered the sound, in my opinion. Don't know if this is true, but was there a different recording aesthetic involved for SSP and BBO? It sounds wetter and more pushed back – don't like this at all.

In one of my earlier posts I shared a link to an actual recording at Synchron Stage. I repeat myself: I don't understand why SSP doesn't sound like this. Would be great if there was a microphone preset for this sound.


----------



## Petrucci

Just a little question - can I do VSL upgrades through third party sellers like Audiodeluxe or is it only possible through VSL site?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

muziksculp said:


> I just noticed there was a minor library update for Synchron Strings Pro on Dec. 4th.
> 
> Here are the notes of the update :
> 
> December 4th, 2020
> 
> Synchron Strings Pro Library Update 02
> Download files:
> 
> B24_Synchron-Strings-Pro_Stereo_Update02_SPv1_w1.vsldownload
> 
> Fixed: Slightly detuned F4/F#4 notes in the following patches: 09 VI-14 detache, 09 VI-10 detache
> Fixed: Some loop points in all instruments



Thanks for the heads up - wonder if they email customers or something? I never saw anything about it and I wonder what's the best way to download this.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Petrucci said:


> Just a little question - can I do VSL upgrades through third party sellers like Audiodeluxe or is it only possible through VSL site?



There is Best Service, Audio Deluxe, JRR Shop and Time Space (and may be some others)....



ALittleNightMusic said:


> Thanks for the heads up - wonder if they email customers or something? I never saw anything about it and I wonder what's the best way to download this.



On the VSL download page there is a section called Synchron Updates....they will update your libraries....


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Petrucci said:


> Just a little question - can I do VSL upgrades through third party sellers like Audiodeluxe or is it only possible through VSL site?


You can, but keep in mind that you are not able to return the product. A good seller is Best Service, because they link to your VSL account and "know" which products you own, thus, you get the same reduced upgrade/crossgrade prices (as if you were buying from VSL). Don't know if others have a similar procedure.


----------



## Casiquire

richhickey said:


> TBH, while I'm a big fan of VSL, SSP does little to distinguish itself vs other string libs, vs SSI, which did a lot. And the direction of VSL vis a vis Synchron I (II?)/Pro/BBO is a muddle they refuse to clarify. If you are considering SSP you might want to wait for Audiobro Modern Scoring Strings next month. Also consider Berlin [regular or Symphonic] Strings, although you just missed a sale on the former.


I don't see how SSP doesn't distinguish itself from others but BSS does. SSP offers much more


----------



## Ben

Sorry @richhickey, nothing personal. No ill intend, but you and me had this conversation already
- and there is nothing I can do if you are not happy with my answers regarding these questions so far. I have already said everything I can say.

SY Strings Pro is in our opinion the better choice to start for new customers, giving you more articulations and easier programming.
From there you can always get SY Strings I for more velocity layers and variations on articulations.
But if you like the sound of SY Strings I more then Pro feel free to get this one first!

Will there be more libraries? Yes, there will!
When and what? You have to wait - I can't talk about it.


----------



## richhickey

Casiquire said:


> I don't see how SSP doesn't distinguish itself from others but BSS does. SSP offers much more



I didn't say, nor mean to imply, that BSS, or any library other than SSI, stood out, just listing others to consider when each has tradeoffs. E.g. SSP has more artics than BSS, but (audibly, noticeably) fewer dynamics on the longs. For me, the dynamics of SSI, BSS, LASS (and similarly, upcoming MSS) are important.


----------



## Beans

I'd ignore myself, if I could.


----------



## JTB

ptram said:


> Not exactly what you are looking for, but I would suggest trying the Synchronized Dimension Strings, if you have not yet done it. While being a different philosophy from Synchron, Dimension libraries are already multi-mic samples, and have an added, er, dimension.
> 
> Paolo


I have the VI DS. They are really nice to layer with other libraries but as a chamber section they don't quite cut it IMO. I don't hear a lot of difference between VI DS and Sy DS in the demos. In fact the String Sinfonia No. 2 and others are the same demo. I was going to cross grade but don't really see the point of coughing up 120 euros.
I see that the Synchron version has 2nd Violins. I suspect that they are the 1st Violins samples doctored up to be 2nd Violins.


----------



## holywilly

Here are my custom presets for Synchron Strings Pro and VI Dimension Strings, they all share the same keyswitch and CC scheme, so that I can write with DS and duplicate the MIDI to SSP for bigger sound. Those presets were inspired from the Dimension Strings Template Tutorial back in 2015. Audio demo of combination of the two is also attached.

I have both SS1 and SSP. SSP has most of the articulations that match with the DS, I can easily tweak it to fit my workflow. Fewer velocity layers doesn't bother me, as long as my mockups grab clients' ear.

I hope those presets and demo are beneficial to people own both VI DS and SSP.


----------



## C-Wave

Petrucci said:


> Just a little question - can I do VSL upgrades through third party sellers like Audiodeluxe or is it only possible through VSL site?


Yes you can, i use audiodeluxe for that..


----------



## Petrucci

C-Wave said:


> Yes you can, i use audiodeluxe for that..


Oh, thanks a lot! So for example I can upgrade from BBO strings to SSP on Audiodeluxe just like on VSL site???


----------



## ptram

Several months later, here is a promo on Synchron strings. Have you revised your opinions on the Standard/Full matter?

I'm still unsure if I need the separate surround mics while working in stereo. What I can say is that I first purchased Synchron Strings Pro for the realistic ambience, just to then discover how much I like the detail this library offers with the Close+Mid+Decca mics only!

Paolo


----------



## Petrucci

ptram said:


> Several months later, here is a promo on Synchron strings. Have you revised your opinions on the Standard/Full matter?
> 
> I'm still unsure if I need the separate surround mics while working in stereo. What I can say is that I first purchased Synchron Strings Pro for the realistic ambience, just to then discover how much I like the detail this library offers with the Close+Mid+Decca mics only!
> 
> Paolo



I always use Surround To Stereo Wide preset which I chose due to its spatial richness compared to the others and how well it all blends with other
Synchron and BBO libraries with the same preset (as well as Synchronized Classical preset)


----------



## Jackdnp121

ptram said:


> Several months later, here is a promo on Synchron strings. Have you revised your opinions on the Standard/Full matter?
> 
> I'm still unsure if I need the separate surround mics while working in stereo. What I can say is that I first purchased Synchron Strings Pro for the realistic ambience, just to then discover how much I like the detail this library offers with the Close+Mid+Decca mics only!
> 
> Paolo


the full version sounded even better and more realistic, also fuller.

I’ll suggest give them a try because VSL does have a 14 days no hassle return policy.

🙂


----------



## ptram

Jackdnp121 said:


> I’ll suggest give them a try because VSL does have a 14 days no hassle return policy.


It's not hassle free. I know very well that you try the libraries, then you keep them! 

Paolo


----------



## Jackdnp121

ptram said:


> It's not hassle free. I know very well that you try the libraries, then you keep them!
> 
> Paolo


tell me about it  

good luck mate !


----------



## Nuno

I am used to work with one articulation per track (and use CC to change from soft attack to normal, etc) but I would like to try use note to change articulation in Synchron Strings PRO. 

Somehow it is not working. When I press the corresponding key for switching the articulation nothing happens. I can play the instrument, but it seems the note keyswitching is locked or something. Can someone help me on this?


----------



## Ben

Nuno said:


> I am used to work with one articulation per track (and use CC to change from soft attack to normal, etc) but I would like to try use note to change articulation in Synchron Strings PRO.
> 
> Somehow it is not working. When I press the corresponding key for switching the articulation nothing happens. I can play the instrument, but it seems the note keyswitching is locked or something. Can someone help me on this?


What DAW are you using? Have you also tried it with a default instrument preset?


----------



## Zedcars

Nuno said:


> I am used to work with one articulation per track (and use CC to change from soft attack to normal, etc) but I would like to try use note to change articulation in Synchron Strings PRO.
> 
> Somehow it is not working. When I press the corresponding key for switching the articulation nothing happens. I can play the instrument, but it seems the note keyswitching is locked or something. Can someone help me on this?


Make sure to account for the fact that some DAWs name Middle C as C3, whereas in Synchron it is named as C4 (the correct way in my opinion!).


----------



## Nuno

Ben said:


> What DAW are you using? Have you also tried it with a default instrument preset?


I am using Studio One. 
I tried in Cubase and it works fine. 
So, I see its a DAW issue. Maybe something related to Sound Variations? 

I will have to see this later, as I won t be able to reach my computer until tomorrow...


----------



## Ben

Nuno said:


> So, I see its a DAW issue. Maybe something related to Sound Variations?


Yes. Make sure to have the latest StudioOne update installed and enable keyswitches in the SoundVariaton configuration.
But when you are already using StudioOne, why not use SoundVariation?


----------



## Nuno

Ben said:


> But when you are already using StudioOne, why not use SoundVariation?


Because I am building a template for VSL in Divisimate and changing the articulation from there on the fly.

Thanks for your help, Ben.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Hello, Does anyone know why my cpu meter within synchron player keeps flashing red and causing notes to drop out?

Just installed Synchron Strings Pro.

Thanks


----------



## Zedcars

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hello, Does anyone know why my cpu meter within synchron player keeps flashing red and causing notes to drop out?
> 
> Just installed Synchron Strings Pro.
> 
> Thanks


Mine used to do that but unfortunately I forgot how I fixed it. However you could try “Rescan Speeds” in the bottom right of the Database tab in the plugin Settings. Secondly, try either swapping out the drive USB cable for higher quality shielded one, and/or using an Ethernet cable instead of WiFi as in my case the WiFi signal was interfering with my cheap USB cable and causing loss of data.

This is my original thread on my issue. It may or may not be the same problem you are having but you might find it helps…






[SOLVED] SSD Problem - Cutting Off or Not Sounding VSL Synchron Samples


Hi, I have a Samsung 850 Evo 4TB SSD inside a UGreen USB C 3.1 Gen 2 Enclosure (says it supports UASP). I am having serious problems with sample playback. At the moment I am trying to play back samples in VEP6 using VSL Synchron player. I'm getting notes cut short after less than 1 second...




vi-control.net


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Zedcars said:


> Mine used to do that but unfortunately I forgot how I fixed it. However you could try “Rescan Speeds” in the bottom right of the Database tab in the plugin Settings. Secondly, try either swapping out the drive USB cable for higher quality shielded one, and/or using an Ethernet cable instead of WiFi as in my case the WiFi signal was interfering with my cheap USB cable and causing loss of data.
> 
> This is my original thread on my issue. It may or may not be the same problem you are having but you might find it helps…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SOLVED] SSD Problem - Cutting Off or Not Sounding VSL Synchron Samples
> 
> 
> Hi, I have a Samsung 850 Evo 4TB SSD inside a UGreen USB C 3.1 Gen 2 Enclosure (says it supports UASP). I am having serious problems with sample playback. At the moment I am trying to play back samples in VEP6 using VSL Synchron player. I'm getting notes cut short after less than 1 second...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


Hmm.

the drive is actually connected internally. It's an M.2 drive.

It reminds me of when you try to play a purged instrument in kontakt and it has to reload the sample causing dropped notes.

Yeah this is kinda unplayable for me.


----------



## Zedcars

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hmm.
> 
> the drive is actually connected internally. It's an M.2 drive.
> 
> It reminds me of when you try to play a purged instrument in kontakt and it has to reload the sample causing dropped notes.
> 
> Yeah this is kinda unplayable for me.


Ah, sorry I wasn’t able to help. Maybe contact VSL support about it.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Zedcars said:


> Ah, sorry I wasn’t able to help. Maybe contact VSL support about it.


Do they respond fast? I know there’s a 14-day period in which you can request a refund.


----------



## FabioA

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Do they respond fast? I know there’s a 14-day period in which you can request a refund.


Are you on PC or MAC? How is the drive formatted?
Did you try changing the pre-load size of Synchron Strings Pro in the settings?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

FabioA said:


> Are you on PC or MAC? How is the drive formatted?
> Did you try changing the pre-load size of Synchron Strings Pro in the settings?


Hi mate,

I’m on pc. The drive is just whatever the standard formatting is and I haven’t touched any settings within synchron just yet.


----------



## Ben

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hi mate,
> 
> I’m on pc. The drive is just whatever the standard formatting is and I haven’t touched any settings within synchron just yet.


Our support responds within 24h most of the times. This issue is most likely caused by data streaming issues, which can have several reasons.
Try to increase the preload size in the players setting for the library (not the default value, but the one in the library list).
This will increase RAM usage, but use less CPU time and can help with very low audio buffers.
If this still doesn't solve the issue, please drop a mail to our support team and include information like OS, audio buffer size, used hardware, used DAW


----------



## FabioA

Ok, so on PC the Synchron Player would require NTFS formation. And ExFAT drive will work but I guess it would potentially require an higher pre-load buffer size to work properly.
Anyway, to change the pre-loaded buffer size (you can do it individually for each Synchron library, which is great) check this video.

There were you could also read "Default", set it to a certain value. Start with 8000 and see how it works. With an m2 you should be able to run it at 4000 to be honest, but do some experimentation and please let me know!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Ben said:


> Our support responds within 24h most of the times. This issue is most likely caused by data streaming issues, which can have several reasons.
> Try to increase the preload size in the players setting for the library (not the default value, but the one in the library list).
> This will increase RAM usage, but use less CPU time and can help with very low audio buffers.
> If this still doesn't solve the issue, please drop a mail to our support team and include information like OS, audio buffer size, used hardware, used DAW


Hello Ben,

it does seem that way. I'll try this advice and see what happens. Currently my audio buffer is pretty high by default, so I'm not sure that would be the issue. I'm not very clued up on this. Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it very much and aside from the issue I'm having, I find the strings to be lovely.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

FabioA said:


> Ok, so on PC the Synchron Player would require NTFS formation. And ExFAT drive will work but I guess it would potentially require an higher pre-load buffer size to work properly.
> Anyway, to change the pre-loaded buffer size (you can do it individually for each Synchron library, which is great) check this video.
> 
> There were you could also read "Default", set it to a certain value. Start with 8000 and see how it works. With an m2 you should be able to run it at 4000 to be honest, but do some experimentation and please let me know!



Thank you very much! I'll look into it


----------



## dts_marin

I really hope this isn't a common issue with Sychron player. I'm having DFD issues with some Kontakt string libraries (very weird acknowledged & longstanding bug) and I thought investing into VSL strings would be my last resort. ( I avoid OT and Spitfire).
Can anybody that has gone though the no-hassle return policy confirm if PayPal gives back the full amount? I really want to try SSP but I'm sceptical..


----------



## Ben

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Currently my audio buffer is pretty high by default,


This can also be an issue in certain cases. You can try to lower the buffer size a little bit. You should be fine somewhere between 256-1024, depending on the hardware other values might also work.


----------



## Ben

dts_marin said:


> I really hope this isn't a common issue with Sychron player. I'm having DFD issues with some Kontakt string libraries (very weird acknowledged & longstanding bug) and I thought investing into VSL strings would be my last resort. ( I avoid OT and Spitfire).
> Can anybody that has gone though the no-hassle return policy confirm if PayPal gives back the full amount? I really want to try SSP but I'm sceptical..


It's not a common issue, but it happens now and then and can be solved by increasing the preload size in 9 out of 10 cases. The Synchron Player uses some aggressive disk streaming techniques to make good use of modern hardware and decreasing RAM usage.

PayPal should return the full price.


----------



## Jackdnp121

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hello, Does anyone know why my cpu meter within synchron player keeps flashing red and causing notes to drop out?
> 
> Just installed Synchron Strings Pro.
> 
> Thanks


yo ! 

I've had Note drop out before using Synchron Strings Pro - Full 

the solution was to Increase the Voice Limit in the setting 

Hope that help ! 

Cheers


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Jackdnp121 said:


> yo !
> 
> I've had Note drop out before using Synchron Strings Pro - Full
> 
> the solution was to Increase the Voice Limit in the setting
> 
> Hope that help !
> 
> Cheers


hmm. my voice limit is already at 500


----------



## Jackdnp121

NeonMediaKJT said:


> hmm. my voice limit is already at 500


I went all the way ... :D 

or else contact VSL 

they are a bunch of cool dudes working there ... 

good luck buddy


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Jackdnp121 said:


> I went all the way ... :D
> 
> or else contact VSL
> 
> they are a bunch of cool dudes working there ...
> 
> good luck buddy


I appreciate the help, dude! I've sent an Email as well as a video to them. Hopefully can get this sorted because so far I love the sound.


----------



## Ben

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I appreciate the help, dude! I've sent an Email as well as a video to them. Hopefully can get this sorted because so far I love the sound.


Could you please double check the drive's file system?


----------



## dts_marin

Ben said:


> It's not a common issue, but it happens now and then and can be solved by increasing the preload size in 9 out of 10 cases. The Synchron Player uses some aggressive disk streaming techniques to make good use of modern hardware and decreasing RAM usage.
> 
> PayPal should return the full price.


Thanks Ben !!
One last question if you are allowed to answer it of course. Is slurred legato going to be added to Synchron Strings Pro?


----------



## muziksculp

dts_marin said:


> Is slurred legato going to be added to Synchron Strings Pro?


+1


----------



## ptram

dts_marin said:


> Is slurred legato going to be added to Synchron Strings Pro?


I suspect they could just adapt the one already included in Synchron Strings I, as they did with some other articulations. Integrating the two libraries is not easy for the user, due to the different dynamic's behavior, but it should be easier at the editing desk.

Paolo


----------



## Zanshin

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I appreciate the help, dude! I've sent an Email as well as a video to them. Hopefully can get this sorted because so far I love the sound.


Also general windows stuff: Make sure you you running the right power plan (performance), make sure the sample directories are set as exclusions in your security settings (I exclude all my sample drives AND my music software).


----------



## Ben

dts_marin said:


> Thanks Ben !!
> One last question if you are allowed to answer it of course. Is slurred legato going to be added to Synchron Strings Pro?


Sorry, I don't know


----------



## JTB

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hello, Does anyone know why my cpu meter within synchron player keeps flashing red and causing notes to drop out?
> 
> Just installed Synchron Strings Pro.
> 
> Thanks


I had the same thing happening to me and realised that Stretch was on with some patches. I went through and checked every patch and switched stretch off and that fixed it.
I had stretch on a staccato patch and playing back a fast staccato passage maxed out my CPU. Which is why I never use the stretch function in the Synchron player.


----------



## Zedcars

JTB said:


> I had the same thing happening to me and realised that Stretch was on with some patches. I went through and checked every patch and switched stretch off and that fixed it.
> I had stretch on a staccato patch and playing back a fast staccato passage maxed out my CPU. Which is why I never use the stretch function in the Synchron player.


VIP has a "Render" button which renders the time-stretched articulation as an audio file. It works really well with no noticeable CPU hit. I don't understand why they didn't build that into the Synchron player. It really needs it.


----------



## Ben

Zedcars said:


> VIP has a "Render" button which renders the time-stretched articulation as an audio file. It works really well with no noticeable CPU hit. I don't understand why they didn't build that into the Synchron player. It really needs it.


Because unlike VI Pro time-stretching in Synchron Player happens in real-time and can be automated / synced to host.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Ben said:


> Could you please double check the drive's file system?


Just had a look. It says NTFS like in the screenshot. I tried increasing and decreasing the buffer size but nothing seems to be making a difference. It also seems to be very random. Sometimes it’ll let me play for a few minutes and then it’ll just go crazy with the nite dropouts.


----------



## Ben

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Just had a look. It says NTFS like in the screenshot. I tried increasing and decreasing the buffer size but nothing seems to be making a difference. It also seems to be very random. Sometimes it’ll let me play for a few minutes and then it’ll just go crazy with the nite dropouts.


Run this software for a few minutes and send me the screenshot: https://resplendence.com/latencymon


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Ben said:


> Run this software for a few minutes and send me the screenshot: https://resplendence.com/latencymon


Hi Ben,

I had to take a picture with my phone as my internet is currently down.


----------



## Ben

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hi Ben,
> 
> I had to take a picture with my phone as my internet is currently down.


Many thanks. Looks ok to me.
But you can try to keep it running side by side with the Synchron Player. If you see spikes in LatencyMon at the some time as dropouts in Sychron Player it might be a driver issue (probably graphics driver; you can try to use Studio drivers, if available for your card).
My colleague will contact you via mail and further investigate this issue.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Ben said:


> Many thanks. Looks ok to me.
> But you can try to keep it running side by side with the Synchron Player. If you see spikes in LatencyMon at the some time as dropouts in Sychron Player it might be a driver issue (probably graphics driver; you can try to use Studio drivers, if available for your card).
> My colleague will contact you via mail and further investigate this issue.


Thank you Ben, I will try that. Thanks for your help

Update: I tried playing synchron strings while latencymon was active. Here’s the result:


----------



## JTB

Ben said:


> Because unlike VI Pro time-stretching in Synchron Player happens in real-time and can be automated / synced to host.


Is there any vids out there that can demonstrate how automating time-stretch can be beneficial to the realism in a composition, I mean for things besides sound effects?. I would use it but haven't found a use case for it thus far. And it seems to be extremely demanding on resources.

I have a pretty nice CPU that can play back 40 instances of VI Pro, Synchron and Kontakt through MIR Pro and a few master but FX, but one instance of Synchron player with a stretched staccato maxes it out.

I would really like to see a render function in the Synchron player as I use it a lot in VI Pro.

This vid is of one track with one bar of stretched staccatos. Not stoked. My CPU meter is at the top right of the screen using 60%. Again one track, one patch. :(

View attachment New video.mp4


----------



## JTB

Zedcars said:


> VIP has a "Render" button which renders the time-stretched articulation as an audio file. It works really well with no noticeable CPU hit. I don't understand why they didn't build that into the Synchron player. It really needs it.


+1
Really good for shorts and detaches. VI Pro is still hands down my favourite player.


----------



## ptram

Ben said:


> Because unlike VI Pro time-stretching in Synchron Player happens in real-time and can be automated / synced to host.


Yes, but sometimes it would be great to be able to 'freeze' a particular length, and save computation time. I think the presets show something of this time in the fast repetitions/measure tremolo, where some of the patches are, if I'm not wrong, derived from an original one by stretching and freezing it.

Paolo


----------



## ptram

JTB said:


> how automating time-stretch can be beneficial to the realism in a composition, I mean for things besides sound effects?


I think realtime time-stretching can be useful in making slight changes to the length of articulations (for example portato, portamento, or legato), to create subtle nuances. There is a demo from Guy Bacos showing how this can be effective.

However, I don't see it as alternative to 'rendered' time-stretched articulations, that would also be very useful.

Paolo


----------



## Babe

I like time stretching for shorts. However, I can't use the feature in Synchron as just using it once sends my cpu into the red. The one in VI Pro can't be automated.


----------



## Zedcars

Ben said:


> Because unlike VI Pro time-stretching in Synchron Player happens in real-time and can be automated / synced to host.


That's great, but it would be much better if we could choose between the two methods seeing as the new way of doing things is so CPU heavy. In some cases it just becomes unusable. Either a choice between the two, or optimise it so it is much more CPU friendly. You could even provide different gradations of quality 1. Light, 2. Standard, and 3. Pro — with the Light version less CPU intensive.


----------



## dts_marin

For those who own SSP: do you find the lack of slurred legato a huge deal or not? And if you also own Elite, do you often find the need to use the slurred legato from Elite to cover this gap?

I'm just trying to know if SSP is fully usable at its current form and if the legatos sound smooth and expressive compared to the slurred legato from Elite/SSI.

Ideally I'd like to get only SSP but if Elite can help with realism as a layer I'll get both... 

It would be more reassuring if we knew that slurred legato is going to be added to SSP before the sale ends.


----------



## Karmand

I've tried all of these things except looking at time stretching; nothing seems to work. 
MacOS 64GB ram 12 core 24 thread VEP7 - just running a string run maxes it out. so I'm still looking for the key.


----------



## Ben

Karmand said:


> I've tried all of these things except looking at time stretching; nothing seems to work.
> MacOS 64GB ram 12 core 24 thread VEP7 - just running a string run maxes it out. so I'm still looking for the key.


- What CPU model are you using?
- How many mics have you enabled at the same time?
- Are you using Cubase? If so, have you disabled ASIO Guard for VEP?


----------



## Jackdnp121

dts_marin said:


> For those who own SSP: do you find the lack of slurred legato a huge deal or not? And if you also own Elite, do you often find the need to use the slurred legato from Elite to cover this gap?
> 
> I'm just trying to know if SSP is fully usable at its current form and if the legatos sound smooth and expressive compared to the slurred legato from Elite/SSI.
> 
> Ideally I'd like to get only SSP but if Elite can help with realism as a layer I'll get both...
> 
> It would be more reassuring if we knew that slurred legato is going to be added to SSP before the sale ends.


To be honest for me not really , SSP’s articulation works great and I’ve notice from all the different library I brought from all these different company is that a big part of using these library are actually noticing the certain limitations and find a way to work around it. However if you have the budget SSP and elite strings combo is really good , Hope it helps.


----------



## muziksculp

Hopefully @Ben can relay the message to VSL development, that we would appreciate it if they can add slurred-legato articulations to Synchron Strings Pro, just like they have done for Elite Strings.

Let's not forget that VSL is very responsive, and always looking forward to improve their products, and satisfy their customers when that is possible. Having Slurred-Legatos will surely increase the popularity of Synchron Strings Pro.


----------



## muziksculp

I posted this on VSL Forums.

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...urred-Legato-Articulation-Addition#post305779

Request for *Synchron Strings Pro* *Slurred-Legato* Articulations, just like they did for Elite Strings.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

muziksculp said:


> I posted this on VSL Forums.
> 
> https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...urred-Legato-Articulation-Addition#post305779
> 
> Request for *Synchron Strings Pro* *Slurred-Legato* Articulations, just like they did for Elite Strings.


One more dynamic layer wouldn’t hurt 👀


----------



## Karmand

Ben said:


> - What CPU model are you using?
> - How many mics have you enabled at the same time?
> - Are you using Cubase? If so, have you disabled ASIO Guard for VEP?


dual 6 core xeon - I'd have to tear out the board to see the model
I used preset mics - you click on them in the menu and it's the presets.
Logic


----------



## ansthenia

Just tried these out for the first time, my first VSL product, and WOW! I understand why everyone praises VSL for the consistency and quality of their programming. These are so nice and hassle free to work with! Been playing with them for a few hours and I haven't come across a single awkward legato transition, a single random volume bump between notes, or any inconsistencies between the different sections etc.... The programming is tight as hell!


----------



## mscp

Babe said:


> I like time stretching for shorts. However, I can't use the feature in Synchron as just using it once sends my cpu into the red. The one in VI Pro can't be automated.


I'm also experiencing the same issue. One instance of Synchron Player with the stretch tool on, and CPU shoots up to red.

i9 9900k + NVME drives + Synchron Player (latest version) running on Nuendo 11.


----------



## ansthenia

Man I'm so happy with these strings, went ahead and got SYNCHRON-ized woodwinds and some BBO Brass too!

I was inspired to write music by Distant Worlds, which are concerts/albums that cover music from the Final Fantasy video game series, and these Synchron stage products from VSL are super close to that sound, so I couldn't be happier.


----------



## Zanshin

ansthenia said:


> Man I'm so happy with these strings, went ahead and got SYNCHRON-ized woodwinds and some BBO Brass too!


Good work! Potent combo.


----------



## Ben

Karmand said:


> dual 6 core xeon - I'd have to tear out the board to see the model
> I used preset mics - you click on them in the menu and it's the presets.
> Logic


Dual CPU setups can be really difficult to troubleshoot, they are not that common anymore for a good reason.
Still, I recommend to contact our support team via [email protected]. I'm not using a Mac myself, so they will probably be more qualified to help you out.


----------



## JTB

@Ben
No word on fixing the stretch function in the Synchron player. After all it does seem to be the general consensus that she's busted.


----------



## DJiLAND

View attachment Hook_WIP.mp3


Now I need strings..


----------



## muziksculp

DJiLAND said:


> View attachment Hook_WIP.mp3
> 
> 
> Now I need strings..


Yes, you surely do.


----------



## Kosmit

Cant find any sound comparison with Pro Full vs Standard...
Still cant decide, should i get extra surround stuff or no.


----------



## ed buller

Sale on at VSL, get the Synchron Strings Pro !!!!


I urge anyone on the fence to try ( you'll get your money back if you don't like em ) The Synchron Strings Pro. I've spent all morning just listening to shorts in my template and these are still the holy grail. There's a sale on.....get em. you'll thank me best e




vi-control.net






I'd get just the standard for strings

best

e


----------



## Casiquire

I suppose one could always buy the standard, then the full upgrade, and return the full upgrade if it's not worth it to them.


----------



## Robert_G

I got the full versions of SS Pro, Brass, and Woodwinds. 
No regrets. If I had to do it again, I'd do the same. Love the extra mics.


----------



## Kosmit

Robert_G said:


> I got the full versions of SS Pro, Brass, and Woodwinds.
> No regrets. If I had to do it again, I'd do the same. Love the extra mics.


Hey, could you do just a few seconds comparison with extra-mics vs pro standard mics.
Just any stuff with full-strings patches, think that will help me to understand what those extra-mics are.


----------



## jamwerks

Kosmit said:


> Hey, could you do just a few seconds comparison with extra-mics vs pro standard mics.
> Just any stuff with full-strings patches, think that will help me to understand what those extra-mics are.


The "Room mix" in the standard version is a mix down of the standard and extended mic's (Surround, High stereo). That can't be modified of course, but that gives you a little taste of what the others bring to the mix.


----------



## fakemaxwell

Unless you're actively working in surround I don't see a reason to get those extra mics. The upgrade to Full is just the difference in cost so just wait until somebody requests surround and they can foot the bill.


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## Ben

fakemaxwell said:


> Unless you're actively working in surround I don't see a reason to get those extra mics. The upgrade to Full is just the difference in cost so just wait until somebody requests surround and they can foot the bill.


You will still profit from the Surround to Stereo downmix options: It adds so much richness to the sound, even when only using it in stereo.
It depends on the instruments how strong this effect is, but it's definitly audible.

Personally, with limited budget I would also complete the Synchron collection first before getting the Full Library upgrade (with the exceptions of Elite Strings, Brass, and Pianos; these profit most from the additional mic options), and get the Full mic upgrade later.


----------



## Robert_G

Kosmit said:


> Hey, could you do just a few seconds comparison with extra-mics vs pro standard mics.
> Just any stuff with full-strings patches, think that will help me to understand what those extra-mics are.


My daw is offline for a few days. Ill try next week if no one else here does


----------



## arcy

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> In my experience VSL generally tends to preserve the natural frequency range of the recordings. In the case of strings, for cinematic productions they are often "sweetened" and made more "lush" by EQing the nasal and hissy properties - it's mostly 4k -4.7k, also 3k and above, and 8-9k. I find that in VSL Strings, these frequencies are still there and need to be carved out a bit if the nasal qualities of strings are undesired.
> 
> This contrast can also be heard demonstrably well in VSLs horn recordings, which mostly have considerably more low end than many other sample libraries. Both the Dimension Horns, as well as the big ass horn sections from the old "Epic Horns" as well as the new BBO Jupiter are way more bulbous and weighty than comparable patches, like the 4 horns from CSB or the 6 horns from SSB Horn Phalanx, which sound more lean and seem to be prepared more "score ready" with less weight and more assertive mids from the get-go. The brassy piercing sizzle of the top-end is also more prominent in VSL samples, which I tend to soften a bit.


This! I did a "cinematic" equalization in this song created entirely with VSL Synchron series + Pianoteq + SS Solo strings.


----------



## Nuno

Are there any cinematic mix presets for brass and woodwinds?

I remember Ben sharing some presets for the Synchron Strings Pro which made them sound very nice, somewhat close to CSS.


----------



## arcy

Nuno said:


> Are there any cinematic mix presets for brass and woodwinds?
> 
> I remember Ben sharing some presets for the Synchron Strings Pro which made them sound very nice, somewhat close to CSS.


I carved ~2.5Khz and ~3.5Khz and used the "timbre adjust" knob to low pass frequencies until I like it (below ~12khz).


----------



## Ben

Great to see that you are working with the Synchron Player's mixer @arcy @Nuno.
You can do quite a lot with it and save it as your own presets for easy access.

I had the pleasure of creating presets for the Signature Mixer Presets that are included with some of our libraries (I may have just finished working on new presets for an upcoming library  ).
I thought about writing a post on how I approach creating these presets and how I speed up creation of those with the advanced features of the Player. Would anyone be interested in reading this, and do you have something specific that I should cover in this post?


----------



## Rubens Tubenchlak

Ben said:


> Great to see that you are working with the Synchron Player's mixer @arcy @Nuno.
> You can do quite a lot with it and save it as your own presets for easy access.
> 
> I had the pleasure of creating presets for the Signature Mixer Presets that are included with some of our libraries (I may have just finished working on new presets for an upcoming library  ).
> I thought about writing a post on how I approach creating these presets and how I speed up creation of those with the advanced features of the Player. Would anyone be interested in reading this, and do you have something specific that I should cover in this post?


Yes, please Ben. I was also wondering if the vienna suite pro has a place with that process, for example, applying eq, exciter to the Synchron Strings Pro, or a better way is indeed using the included tools inside the player itself...


----------



## arcy

Ben said:


> Great to see that you are working with the Synchron Player's mixer @arcy @Nuno.
> You can do quite a lot with it and save it as your own presets for easy access.
> 
> I had the pleasure of creating presets for the Signature Mixer Presets that are included with some of our libraries (I may have just finished working on new presets for an upcoming library  ).
> I thought about writing a post on how I approach creating these presets and how I speed up creation of those with the advanced features of the Player. Would anyone be interested in reading this, and do you have something specific that I should cover in this post?


Thank you Ben for your support. The majority of us are cinematic composers and we usually use libraries with a very lush sound and smooth legato transitions. So, VSL SySPro is a very detailed, bright sound library that fits perfectly with classical/symphonic music. But the power of a raw sound is that it can be transformed and manipulated to fit other genres like emotional or epic ones. So, a post or a video that explains how to use Synchron Player features to transform the sound of SySPro library is a good idea!


----------



## Petrucci

Ben said:


> Great to see that you are working with the Synchron Player's mixer @arcy @Nuno.
> You can do quite a lot with it and save it as your own presets for easy access.
> 
> I had the pleasure of creating presets for the Signature Mixer Presets that are included with some of our libraries (I may have just finished working on new presets for an upcoming library  ).
> I thought about writing a post on how I approach creating these presets and how I speed up creation of those with the advanced features of the Player. Would anyone be interested in reading this, and do you have something specific that I should cover in this post?


And also... What is this next Library?!?!))))))


----------



## Karmand

Yes


----------



## bcslaam

I’m interested in mix snapshots/custom preset integration to VEPro during composition and then during mix.
Would using the internal mixer in your case mean you are coupled to the daw?
Or are you able to keep the VEPro instance decoupled but store presets and change them remotely at the beginning of each project somehow? Thus being able to use one big template for all your cues.
Or are you saving VEPro separately for each cue during composition?
For me because the instances have a lot in them, coupling causes not only really long save times in Nuendo but very sluggish performance when even just selecting tracks.
This is the main reason I’m not using the internal mixer and fx. And also why I’m interested to see if it can be fully automated from a base template.


----------



## Karmand

bcslaam said:


> I’m interested in mix snapshots/custom preset integration to VEPro during composition and then during mix.
> Would using the internal mixer in your case mean you are coupled to the daw?


I don't couple them.


bcslaam said:


> Or are you able to keep the VEPro instance decoupled but store presets and change them remotely at the beginning of each project somehow? Thus being able to use one big template for all your cues.


I uncouple and purge anything not being used. Save each instance. Save each server project per cue/piece.


bcslaam said:


> Or are you saving VEPro separately for each cue during composition?


I am experimenting with 'floating' in and out instances as needed. My instances are made up of each lib's instruments divided by section; ie VSL Woods, VSL Brass, SF Symph Strings, Anthology, VSL Perc and some generic all inclusive Tuned Percussion and Ensembles like a catch all. 

But at the end of a cue/piece I save a server project that remembers the instances exactly as they were when I mixed the final.


----------



## bcslaam

Karmand said:


> I don't couple them.
> 
> I uncouple and purge anything not being used. Save each instance. Save each server project per cue/piece.
> 
> I am experimenting with 'floating' in and out instances as needed. My instances are made up of each lib's instruments divided by section; ie VSL Woods, VSL Brass, SF Symph Strings, Anthology, VSL Perc and some generic all inclusive Tuned Percussion and Ensembles like a catch all.
> 
> But at the end of a cue/piece I save a server project that remembers the instances exactly as they were when I mixed the final.


Thanks, very useful to hear this because I will eventually do similar - bring in channel sets a la carte.
I started with instances per category but neither Nuendo or VEPro were optimal that way. They boih like less VEPro instances, which end up huge (eg one instance for ALL strings!) and VEPro channel disabling. But it seems that in order for me to get there, a big template is needed to maintain a work flow as I develop my channel sets.


----------



## Ben

It took longer then expected and the post is much longer then I thought.
Still, I hope it helps and encourages you to customize the sound:





Synchron Player Custom Mixer Preset Guide


Hi everyone! As promised in another thread, here is my guide on how I create presets (for example the Signature Presets in many Synchron Libraries). Requirements: DAW, MIDI input device, any multi-mic Synchron/BBO library (SYNCHRON-ized libraries as well as the Prime Edition will work as well...




vi-control.net





Feel free to comment in that thread and maybe even post some audio results or share your own presets


----------



## arcy

Ben said:


> It took longer then expected and the post is much longer then I thought.
> Still, I hope it helps and encourages you to customize the sound:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synchron Player Custom Mixer Preset Guide
> 
> 
> Hi everyone! As promised in another thread, here is my guide on how I create presets (for example the Signature Presets in many Synchron Libraries). Requirements: DAW, MIDI input device, any multi-mic Synchron/BBO library (SYNCHRON-ized libraries as well as the Prime Edition will work as well...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to comment in that thread and maybe even post some audio results or share your own presets


I'm working on a preset, I'll share it!


----------



## arcy

In terms of sounds, updating from standard to full worth it, or the differences are subtle?


----------



## holywilly

arcy said:


> In terms of sounds, updating from standard to full worth it, or the differences are subtle?


You get fuller sound from the room, plus the extra room/surround mics are controllable in full version. 

The downside is streaming extra voices need extra system resources.

To me, the gem from the full version is the “back” mic, it warms the instrument s.


----------



## arcy

holywilly said:


> You get fuller sound from the room, plus the extra room/surround mics are controllable in full version.
> 
> The downside is streaming extra voices need extra system resources.
> 
> To me, the gem from the full version is the “back” mic, it warms the instrument s.


Thanks @holywilly, it's the sound type that I'm looking for.


----------



## holywilly

I created different mixes (lush roomy, detailed close and mute) for all instruments in my template, and Synchron players share resources, how beautiful is that!


----------

