# Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money.



## pocoapoco (Jan 25, 2014)

It feels like I've been conned out of $300. It's a shame too because the sample set itself for this instrument does sound quite nice. I was compelled to buy this library upon hearing the demo track of Beethoven's Hammerklavier sonata. It really had me convinced. However the programming of this instrument to put it as nicely as I possibly can "MF'in blows". And with Play Pro being vapor-ware there's not a damn thing to be done about it. Here's a list of most of the programming problems I've found in this instrument

As note velocity changes from 1 to 127 many of the timber changes are very abrupt and painfully noticeable especially if you are doing trills that hover around a break point.
sometimes notes actually decrease in volume across sample changes when going from lower to higher velocities.
The velocity curve ajustment feature is not changing velocity sensitivity, it's changing volume of a linear velocity curve. On my keyboard (A roland A-90 that I like especially for the reason of not having to make any significant adjustment when switching to playing on an acoustic instrument), all of the instruments sound like badly beaten up steel drums played in a closet in the p-pp volume range. Trying for several hours to tweek the curve on the player software didn't help any. This in itself is enough to make the library not worth buying.
Some of the notes have badly timed attacks and have a several milisecond delay between the time a note is pressed and the actual note sounds.
There's at least one mapping error B00 plays as C0 with the damper held damper up. C'mon guys. There's really NO excuse for this.
Many soft pedal samples are more out of tune than the normal (tre corde)
samples of the same note. There shouldn't be any samples that are that far out of tune anyways.
The upper register is not programmed correctly (G5-C7) These notes don't have dampers on them in a real piano, but play as though they do.
The samples appear to have an EQ boost somewhere around 200Hz. I assume this is done to enhance hammer and key noise, but it has the bad side effect of making the notes whose principal pitch is around that frequency very boomy sounding.
No sostenuto implemented.

these are minor quibbles
There's no half-pedaling implemented.
there fore no damper pedal release velocity either.
no key release velocity implemented.
studio noise is quite apparent in the sample set. This wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that that background noise drops out completely, abruptly, and noticeably when no note is playing.

Save yourself the aggravation. 
Don't buy this library.


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## Alastair (Jan 25, 2014)

You have a very good ear, but I must admit that I've noticed a few of these things too. Particularly the abruptness of velocity changes - it really is noticeable and there is no excuse for it given the supposed standard and cost of the library. 

I think the Bechstein is probably the best sampled of the lot, but even on that I find myself increasingly playing stuff in and having to manually reduce individual note velocities because of the unnatural sound.


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## sluggo (Jan 25, 2014)

So, in the spirit of being productive...
can anyone suggest a proper piano library?
I've owned QL Pianos for a while and have had numerous problems that you did not even mention. 

I got Piano In Blue which I like but just isn't full bodied enough. I also got Spitfire Orchestral grand, but I'm looking for a piano library which gives QL Pianos a good run for it's money.


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## feck (Jan 25, 2014)

sluggo @ Sat Jan 25 said:


> So, in the spirit of being productive...
> can anyone suggest a proper piano library?
> I've owned QL Pianos for a while and have had numerous problems that you did not even mention.
> 
> I got Piano In Blue which I like but just isn't full bodied enough. I also got Spitfire Orchestral grand, but I'm looking for a piano library which gives QL Pianos a good run for it's money.


Plus EW Pianos have TONS of low frequency rumble which builds up during sustain pedal runs to the point of un-useability. Do yourself a favor and buy Vienna Imperial. There is literally not one technical glitch I have found in that library at all, and of all of the sample sets I own (virtually all of them), Imperial goes on about 90% of my productions.


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## PerryD (Jan 25, 2014)

Try the trial version of the current Pianoteq. Keep an open mind. I would not have recommended it as an alternative to great sampled piano libraries in previous versions but Pianoteq 4.5 has become a very viable replacement for them IMHO. I recently went from Standard to Pro. It is really a versatile instrument! You definitely won't hear any aberrations between velocity layers, as it is modeled in real time as you play, without samples.
-Perry-


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## JohnG (Jan 25, 2014)

Sorry to differ, but I use this library all the time. I think it sounds great, actually. 


(Note: I have received free products from East West)


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## Neifion (Jan 25, 2014)

I really like Alicia's Keys, particularly for it's somewhat darker tone. (I'm not affiliated with NI or Alicia herself. )


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## ghostnote (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm using the Bechstein all the time, IMO the best Piano out of those 4. I can't speak about the different velocity layers because I'm just using the sus and rep samples, but I have to admit that some of them do have annoyoing low mids. Especially around 200-250Hz.


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## Zelorkq (Jan 26, 2014)

You could try out Synthogy's Ivory 2 range, they have some nice Piano libraries & combos, gorgeous sound and playability!
What I also often hear people talking about is the Sampletekk Black Grand and Imperfect Samples Fazioli, I can only comment on their beautiful sounding demos.


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## midi_controller (Jan 26, 2014)

JohnG @ Sat Jan 25 said:


> Sorry to differ, but I use this library all the time. I think it sounds great, actually.
> 
> 
> (Note: I have received free products from East West)



The OP never said it didn't sound good (his second sentence was "It's a shame too because the sample set itself for this instrument does sound quite nice."), he said that there is a laundry list of technical and programming issues with the library which hinders the use of it, so much so for him that he finds it unplayable. Are you saying that the problems he brought up do not exist?


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## pavolbrezina (Jan 26, 2014)

Sorry for your findings with this library. But be prepared that EW states that this library is old and they are not going to upgrade and fix it, like with EWQL Choirs :? Try Ivory pianos, you will never been dissappointed.


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## emid (Jan 26, 2014)

Currently I am in love with Emotional piano by Soundiron and a free piano, Headroom piano (posted here), to quickly jot down what I have in my mind.


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## TheUnfinished (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

Check out Imperfect Samples' pianos. I absolutely adore them.


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



pavolbrezina @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> But be prepared that EW states that this library is old and they are not going to upgrade and fix it, like with EWQL Choirs :?



Yeaaaah.... I think this is the 2nd biggest problem with EW. Beyond a couple of maintenance releases if you're lucky, they never revist their libraries. It's very old school and it doesn't compare with other companies like Spitfire, CineSamples, Audiobro, Spectrasonics, Soundiron, Orange Tree etc etc, all of which embrace the living library approach. These really are dead libraries.


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## rayinstirling (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



midi_controller @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> JohnG @ Sat Jan 25 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to differ, but I use this library all the time. I think it sounds great, actually.
> ...



Here we go again,
pocoapoco may very well post truly negative opinions on a library and cite what others may agree as facts however. JohnG has been around here a long time and has a back catalog of some great music which everyone can have a listen to. On the other hand, pocoapoco is just someone with a negative opinion who's been around here a long time. I prefer to listen to the views of those who walk the walk and show some proof of doing it. There may be very good reasons why some wish to be anonymous but I'll continue to use walking the walk as my yardstick.
Ray


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## blougui (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

What means walking the walk ?

I must agree with the vélocity thing on the Gold edition but in no way am I a professional keyboardist. Had difficulties tweaking the curves to make it sound the way I like or the way it suits my poor playing and kind of quit - had it with Complete composers collection.
My go-to piano now is the Acoustic sample Old Black Grand.

It's weird, I've been an EW user since 2005, SOL forum user from time to time did'nt know anything about other brands - yeah I know, it's sad but at least, it saved my wallet for a couple oe years - and now discovering all the - shared - discontent. Don't know what to think. Now I'm jus trying to get the best of my libs, wich takes time.

Pocoapoco : do you write about this issues on EW forum ? Any reactions ?


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## rayinstirling (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

Walk the walk and not just talk the talk.
Demonstrating expertise rather than just having someone somewhere being referred to as an expert.


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## pavolbrezina (Jan 26, 2014)

I just does not understand EW strategy. If they put a lot of money to produce great sounding samples, why they dont want to upgrade and improve controller soft. They just doing insane price drops of half functioning products. I really dont understand this. They are even on ILOK uncrackable platform, so why I am asking.


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## Casiquire (Jan 26, 2014)

pavolbrezina @ Sun 26 Jan said:


> I just does not understand EW strategy. If they put a lot of money to produce great sounding samples, why they dont want to upgrade and improve controller soft. They just doing insane price drops of half functioning products. I really dont understand this. They are even on ILOK uncrackable platform, so why I am asking.



I don't know but this is another HUGE reason why I'll never give EW money ever again. Though I have many reasons. To be honest I use Pianos fairly often. There are occasional notes that I find imperfect and I'm in love with the Bechstein's sound but I have to tame the low end a lot before running it through MIR Pro unless I want it to sound like a volcano, in an unpleasant way. Hint: I don't. Nonetheless, overall I do quite like that Bechstein, but the philosophy of collecting money for flawed libraries and then never fixing the flaws is disgusting. That's why they're called EW.


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## midi_controller (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



rayinstirling @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Here we go again,
> pocoapoco may very well post truly negative opinions on a library and cite what others may agree as facts however. JohnG has been around here a long time and has a back catalog of some great music which everyone can have a listen to. On the other hand, pocoapoco is just someone with a negative opinion who's been around here a long time. I prefer to listen to the views of those who walk the walk and show some proof of doing it. There may be very good reasons why some wish to be anonymous but I'll continue to use walking the walk as my yardstick.
> Ray



Um, ok? pocoapoco posted a very clear, very detailed list of issues that with the library that should be easily replicated by anyone else who has it. JohnG only said that he thought it sounds great and uses it all the time. It seems like JohnG pretty much glanced over the issues pocoapoco brought up, and didn't really share any insight besides that he liked the product. This isn't really a place where you take one's word over the other's, since it's less about opinions (both said that they liked the sound) and more about technical problems with the library. I have _no_ idea how JohnG's catalog of music pertains to this discussion in any way. 

Anyway, I just wanted some clarification on whether JohnG was insinuating that these issues didn't exist.


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## StatKsn (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

+1 for Ivory 2 and Imperfect Samples! Imperfect's piano also include FX patches, which is a very nice addition.

And blougui, with all due respect, you are essentially telling him/her "let's waste your effort and get banned/disapproved at the SOL forums" :| 
http://www.google.com/search?q=eastwest ... raudio.com
http://www.google.com/search?q=eastwest ... rslutz.com
http://www.google.com/search?q=eastwest ... ontrol.net
http://www.google.com/search?q=soundson ... rum+censor

When you want to report a bug for EW, it'd be better to write in a forum with some freedom of speech (like here) or at least the support ticket. Whether they can handle it or not is an another story, as they don't seem to have much manpower (Play) or simply not keen to touch anymore (old products).


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

Pianoteq is fab. QL Pianos got killed from my HD a few weeks ago when I realised I hadn't used it in more than a year. 

The playability is brilliant on Pianoteq, the sound is getting better all the time, and you can do a lot of tweaking if required to make it sound like one of the other libraries made up of samples.


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## AC986 (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

I think just about every piano out there has some problem or another.

My favourite changes quite a bit.

The one I'm using for a couple of tracks atm the moment is the Headroom Piano and that one is/was free. Don't know if it still is.

A lot of it is dependent on what style you are using it for. Piano in Blue I also like, but also has quirks.


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## mk282 (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



adriancook @ 26.1.2014 said:


> The one I'm using for a couple of tracks atm the moment is the Headroom Piano and that one is/was free. Don't know if it still is.



It still is and it will be free forever, I think.


That said, +1 Pianoteq 4.5


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## Daryl (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

My current sampled piano of choice is Galaxy II. Particularly the Steinway.

D


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

I don't have any problem with the OP writing what he wrote, although if I were a mod I would ask him to change the title to something more moderate.

Anyway, he has his opinion, here are some different ones:

Herbie Hancock
"These are real acoustic piano sounds. I'm absolutley amazed. EastWest/Quantum Leap has gone the extra mile to provide stunning quality acoustic pianocharacter - the whole collection is superb!"
-

David Newman
"Pianos is the best software available today. The recording quality and playability are fantastic. These are the only digital piano sounds that faithfully reproduce the resonances of a well tuned piano."

Teddy Riley
"This is not just a Virtual Piano collection, it's a masterpiece ... it's love at first touch. When I first heard it, I had to play it, and I fell in love - WOW!!"

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct08/a ... pianos.htm

http://www.musicradar.com/us/reviews/tech/east-west-quantum-leap-pianos-166517 (http://www.musicradar.com/us/reviews/te ... nos-166517)

http://soniccontrol.tv/2009/05/06/quantum-leap-pianos-overview/ (http://soniccontrol.tv/2009/05/06/quant ... -overview/)


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## marclawsonmusic (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

Hi pocoapoco,

It sounds like you might be an actual piano player (versus someone who just plays a piano).

If so, you might like Pianoteq. It is a modeled product and (to my ears) sounds very much like an acoustic piano.

I also ran into trouble (aka wasted a lot of money) with several sampled pianos (not QL Pianos, however), but eventually found Pianoteq. I have never looked back. I think there is even a free trial.

I wish you the best in your search,
Marc


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## mk282 (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ 26.1.2014 said:


> I don't have any problem with the OP writing what he wrote, although if I were a mod I would ask him to change the title to something more moderate.
> 
> Anyway, he has his opinion, here are some different ones:
> 
> ...



Typical EW rep response, outweigh the ACTUAL EXPERIENCE of one (and not just one) user with endorsed opinions from bigshots. Jay, pocoapoco doesn't have an opinion - he has an EXPERIENCE with the library he finds less than satisfactory. There is a huge difference between "experience" and "opinion".

He's right about half-pedalling not being implemented. He's right about not being able to tweak velocity breaks of samples. He's right on a lot of things. The issues OP talks about are real, I've heard some of those from more than one QLP users I personally know.


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## midi_controller (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> I don't have any problem with the OP writing what he wrote, although if I were a mod I would ask him to change the title to something more moderate.



I agree, something like "Issues with EW QL Pianos" would probably be fine. Some people may find those issues a deal breaker, some may not, but it's good to have the information either way.

The OP is probably just really upset at the moment, hence the overly negative post I think.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

Yes, typical, also logical.

Once again everyone's entitled to their opinion, but (as it should be IMHO) out in the real world of opinion=sales 1 Herbie Hancock matters more than 100 negatives by unknowns.


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## mk282 (Jan 26, 2014)

Again, "opinion" is not what OP is talking about. He's talking about his experience with the library, and noticings on programming issues you guys should be able to check yourself. And there are real problems with QLP, but it's obviously tough to admit them so it's easier to hide behind bigshot names.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

mk282 @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Again, "opinion" is not what OP is talking about. He's talking about his experience with the library, and noticings on programming issues you guys should be able to check yourself. And there are real problems with QLP, but it's obviously tough to admit them so it's easier to hide behind bigshot names.[/quote
> 
> As Adrian said, "I think just about every piano out there has some problem or another."
> 
> ...


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## StatKsn (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Yes, typical, also logical.
> 
> Once again everyone's entitled to their opinion, but (as it should be IMHO) out in the real world of opinion=sales 1 Herbie Hancock matters more than 100 negatives by unknowns.



I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with your opinion, but you are throwing fuel on a fire - especially when the op is angry - imo.


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## mk282 (Jan 26, 2014)

StatKsn @ 26.1.2014 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, typical, also logical.
> ...



Quite.

In any case, everything OP mentions should be very easy to replicate if it's true or not. And I've learned from a decent amount of QLP owners that those are real issues EW didn't sort out, nor shown any initiative on doing so. So, yes, basically it seems that OP is not so much a working composer, but a pianist, and as such he will look at different things in a virtual piano instrument. For such people, QLP have definitive shortcomings that not only OP posted, but some other members added on to it (low freq rumble buildup during sustained passages - that's a very big no-no!).


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

StatKsn @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, typical, also logical.
> ...



I am not a fan of public venting and I do not cater to it. You cannot post a topic title that is that strongly worded and not expect some blowback from the developer. or one of its's reps.


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## TheUnfinished (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

Thanks for this advice Jay!

Next time someone emails me that they're having trouble installing some of my synth sounds, I'll just tell them someone more famous than them uses it. That definitely wouldn't make me a jerk.


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## mk282 (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



TheUnfinished @ 26.1.2014 said:


> Thanks for this advice Jay!
> 
> Next time someone emails me that they're having trouble installing some of my synth sounds, I'll just tell them someone more famous than them uses it. That definitely wouldn't make me a jerk.



Touché! o-[][]-o


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



TheUnfinished @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Thanks for this advice Jay!
> 
> Next time someone emails me that they're having trouble installing some of my synth sounds, I'll just tell them someone more famous than them uses it. That definitely wouldn't make me a jerk.



John Graham, a forum member and a mod, just told you he uses them all the time. And while he is not famous he is skilled and deservedly well respected here.

If saying that makes me a jerk in your eyes, i can live with it. I had long conversations with other developers at NAMM and I know now where I stand with them. They appreciate that I never knock, even support, other developers and that i always tell the truth as I see it, in a respectful manner.

So I will not be losing any sleep over what you think of me.


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## AC986 (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

I don't think your'e a jerk Jay and neither does Unfinished I'll bet. o-[][]-o 

These pianos that we get as virtual instruments are really difficult at the best of times to me. Mark likes Pianoteq. I can see why but it's not exactly cheap is it.

The biggest issue I have with virtual pianos is the way they actually play. To me, it's not an instant response and that's something that has taken an age to get used to.


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## mk282 (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



adriancook @ 26.1.2014 said:


> Mark likes Pianoteq. I can see why but it's not exactly cheap is it.



Depends, there are three versions, cheapest is 99€.


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## TheUnfinished (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

Yes, yes... clearly I said "Because you think John Graham is deserving of respect that makes you a jerk."

I felt that throwing promo quotes from 'names' wasn't an appropriate response to some people raising technical isues with a sample library. That is all.


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## StatKsn (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> I am not a fan of public venting and I do not cater to it. You cannot post a topic title that is that strongly worded and not expect some blowback from the developer. or one of its's reps.



Please calm down. Yes the tone of the op post can be quite harsh and rude, and I very well know how hard it is to remain cool when someone is bashing your product with a words like "don't buy this" which is way too much. However the op is criticizing the technical problems of QL Pianos while you are criticizing the op's personality, which is equally bad and would resolve nothing as you are not talking about the same subject.


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## pocoapoco (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



blougui @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Pocoapoco : do you write about this issues on EW forum ? Any reactions ?



I posted a very similar message on the EW forum, but it appears that the moderators there don't like criticism of their libraries even deserved, objective criticism. The post I sent never appeared on the forum.


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



pocoapoco @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> blougui @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Pocoapoco : do you write about this issues on EW forum ? Any reactions ?
> ...



Surprise 8)


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Once again everyone's entitled to their opinion, but (as it should be IMHO) out in the real world of opinion=sales 1 Herbie Hancock matters more than 100 negatives by unknowns.



Indeed it is, and its a tactic used very successfully by EWQL. Most criticism is answered by "someone famous gave us a good quote" and its partner "Famous Magazine gave it a great review". Ordinary users are, by contrast, held in very low esteem, so you are accurately reflecting the corporate ethic at work here.

For whatever reason, I've found celebrity endorsements and print magazine reviews relatively poor indicators of the real worth of a product, but that's probably one for another thread.

There has been a lot of discussion lately about VI-C itself, but there is a great advantage to being a tough crowd - things tend not to get brushed under the carpet. While there are undeniably those who do whinge and have ludicrously unrealistic expectations, a lot of good points are raised by the hive mind.

But enough opinions. When sticking to the facts, there have been specific problems reported about this library which have gone unanswered, and we're told there will be no more updates for it either. The dead library policy is, for me, a more powerful persuader than any opinions from the pauper or the praised, but I know you'll disagree.


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## dgburns (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

I've no issues with pointing out technical issues needing ironing out.

I have a big issue with the title of the thread.

please consider an alternate title.


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## pavolbrezina (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

I dont think Mr. Hancock even see and hear EW Pianos :lol: You must be kidding, he has probably real Steinway D even in his bedroom along with Korg OASYS >8o


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## pavolbrezina (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> David Newman
> "Pianos is the best software available today. The recording quality and playability are fantastic. These are the only digital piano sounds that faithfully reproduce the resonances of a well tuned piano."



David Newman 
"Ivory is simply the most realistic sampled piano on the market today. Its tone and playabaility are second to none"

www.synthogy.com

So where is the truth :mrgreen:


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## TheUnfinished (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

Pavol, I was initially going to say that your first post was a pretty strong accusation against both East West and Herbie Hancock.

But, after your second post, I'm not really sure what to say. Not a pretty state of affairs is it?


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## pocoapoco (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> [
> I am not a fan of public venting and I do not cater to it. You cannot post a topic title that is that strongly worded and not expect some blowback from the developer. or one of its's reps.


I can upload audio recordings that clearly demonstrate every issue that I brought up. These kinds of flaws are what I'd expect in a sub $50 library not a $300 up to a potential $500 library.


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## Gabriel2013 (Jan 26, 2014)

pavolbrezina @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > David Newman
> ...



Both are probably right.
When David Newman says "Pianos is the best software available today." one needs to check in what year was that quote.

I can say the same thing about GigaPiano, but that was more than 10 years ago.


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## dhlkid (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

For Piano, I only use Ivory II.

After my experience with EW Hollywood series, I won't buy their items anymore. 

They are good libraries, but not that user friendly and have too many issue.

Just my opinion.


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## KingIdiot (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

I used a ton of EWQLPianos on a pop record recently. Sounded great, and fit really nicely in big mixes, and I could really spend time playing with mix options and engineering like an actual engineer. I like the tonality/sonic character way more than a lot of the other pianos I hear. A lot. It has a great vibe, and vibe is important to me in mixes/choices.

Was still absolutely fucking fake sounding for ben fold's five type stuff, so couldn't really use it for that without doing some production and arranging on top for songs in that vibe. I don't know a library that could do this though. Anyone have an idea of a piano that both feels and sounds real in that context, As it is, I think I'm going to have to do the connect pro stuff with a MIDI enabled piano in the future, or a real one.


Also Jay...crappy response I really hate when you do that. You and another person out here have that same canned defensive but utterly generic ad campaign response sometimes. It's really tacky. Yes, I see the irony of me saying that while I wear velvet.

pocoapoco... crappy title. There' absolutely no reason to campaign against the library being bought. Your concerns and experience is valid, but it's this kind of veiled antagonism that causes issues on this forum, and there isn't really anyone here to work it out with you, so its just venting and getting people to pat you on their back with all the EW hate over here.

I don't think anyone should actively stay away from EWQLP. Especially with all the current price slashing. It works really well in different mixes, and has a great character, and tonality. 

But as a focused piano when you need lots nuance and real live playing feel. Maybe it's not the top choice.

It does have very typical EW support though. If that's something that weighs into your decision making then I don't blame you. Is it useless as is? Hell no. Quite the opposite. Could things be updated. Yearp...

The topic/title is pure bating and hyperbole, don't let that garbage suck you in.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



TheUnfinished @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Yes, yes... clearly I said "Because you think John Graham is deserving of respect that makes you a jerk."
> 
> I felt that throwing promo quotes from 'names' wasn't an appropriate response to some people raising technical isues with a sample library. That is all.



And I feel it is because I firmly believe not all opinions are equal, so we will have to agree to disagree


----------



## dryano (Jan 26, 2014)

Don't we all know, how those testimonials to be achieved? Famous guy X got sent a product Y from company Z and in return he provides some nice words about Y and/or Z.
Nobody should ever evaluate a product on the basis of testimonials. If you, EastWestLurker really believe, what you are saying here in this thread, you must be pretty naive.


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## mk282 (Jan 26, 2014)

Technical issues are not opinions, Jay. Seems like you just don't get it, or pretend not to get it.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

StatKsn @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > I am not a fan of public venting and I do not cater to it. You cannot post a topic title that is that strongly worded and not expect some blowback from the developer. or one of its's reps.
> ...



i am very calm. I wrote nothing rude or disrespectful of the OP, other than the factual statement that his opinions do not carry much weight in the world of sales, did I?


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

mk282 @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Technical issues are not opinions, Jay. Seems like you just don't get it, or pretend not to get it.



When some people can reproduce certain technical issues and others cannot, then it becomes a different thing.

if someone posts an issue, asks me ifI can reproduce it and I find I can, i am always candid about that. 

But that is far from making it a "horrible library" because as Adrian said, all piano libraries have some.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

Thank you King Idiot. We don't always agree but you are a truth teller and I respect that.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

dryano @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Don't we all know, how those testimonials to be achieved? Famous guy X got sent a product Y from company Z and in return he provides some nice words about Y and/or Z.
> Nobody should ever evaluate a product on the basis of testimonials. If you, EastWestLurker really believe, what you are saying here in this thread, you must be pretty naive.



I can only say as a not famous guy but one who is successful enough that I can afford to buy any library I want, if someone gives me something for free, I am not going to put my credibility and integrity on the line by saying I really like it if i do not and i don't think a guy like Danny Elfman or Herbie Hancock would either.

if that is naive, well then i am naive i guess.


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## blougui (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

All of this made me want to try Pianoteq - wich stirs controversy here & there - and I've just dwnloaded the trial version. Out of my price tag at the mo but still will give it a try as I'm very curious about the playability of the beast (at least everyone agrees about it in the threads I've stumbled upon when researching opinions on piano libs).


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## Vlzmusic (Jan 26, 2014)

Sometimes I get a funny feeling that EW libraries deserve better creators 

--- oops, I edited out the Play troubleshooting remark - as I foolishly thought that OP had some problems with notes abrupt playback, etc. Apparently not, and all his remarks geared towards specific lib issues. Sorry about that--------------- 

If it was pure venting - then I agree that EW products, as controversial as they might look on forums - are "league", and persuading people to stop buying or using them, is naive to say the least.


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## TheUnfinished (Jan 26, 2014)

KingIdiot said:


> Also Jay...crappy response I really hate when you do that. You and another person out here have that same canned defensive but utterly generic ad campaign response sometimes. It's really tacky.





EastWest Lurker said:


> Thank you King Idiot. We don't always agree but you are a truth teller and I respect that.



I know that isn't quite the part of KingIdiot's post you meant, but it amused me that he got this response because he ALSO said something nice about EW Pianos.


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

Yeah, I really don't get the endorsement thing. Sample Logic is a company who produce some wildly inconsistent stuff. I have Cinematic Guitars and it's pretty good, but I've disliked almost everything I've heard from Morphestra, and I can barely remember a positive comment about it here.

On their website, Morphestra has ringing endorsements from Clinton Shorter, Mark Isham, Rupert Gregson Williams and Jesper Kyd, plus a 9/10 from Computer Music, an award from Electronic Musician and two thumbs up from Future Music. So by the JA / EWQL logic, it MUST be a great library. All further discussion by anyone other than Hans Zimmer is moot, because the track record of those guys exceeds that of the rest of the VI-C membership. As Jay is fond of pointing out, not all are created equal, so all dissenting opinion is essentially worthless - 100 ordinary VI-C members equals one Mark Isham, so even 99 people here all disliking it counts for nothing. The guy or gal with the most impressive CV wins every time.

I have a really average Yamaha Pacifica guitar. It's not terrible, but it's not great, If Jimi Hendrix rose from the grave and played it, it would be a) kewl and b) sound way better. But the fact remains that I'd play and sound better with a guitar better made with better action. Just because someone better than me can make something sound better than me, it does not in any way mitigate against quality deficiencies in the product.

(apologies for using the word "better" too many times in the last paragraph).

PS - very good observation, Matt B.


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## StatKsn (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> i am very calm. I wrote nothing rude or disrespectful of the OP, other than the factual statement that his opinions do not carry much weight in the world of sales, did I?



You didn't, but you are still talking about an entirely different topic; OP discusses the technical problems of QL Pianos while you are discussing about how "big" the op is. So exactly, which bullet point in the OP do you think is untrue?

[English is not my first language and it might be that "personality" wasn't an appropriate choice of word]


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

TheUnfinished @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> KingIdiot said:
> 
> 
> > Also Jay...crappy response I really hate when you do that. You and another person out here have that same canned defensive but utterly generic ad campaign response sometimes. It's really tacky.
> ...



In 90% of cases with sample libraries, the "truth" will include nice and not so nice things. None are perfect, few are "horrible".


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

Jay maybe you could go from a different angle maybe like: 

"Hello Pocoapoco,
Very sorry to hear that you are unsatisfied with the product. It launched very successfully and has been used on a professional level in various fields for many years now. East West strive to create sample libraries as bug-free as possible but like any piece of software can have some slight issues. Unfortunately due to time constraints and project demands EW cannot revisit Pianos for the foreseeable future. We personally believe the product is fantastic and would encourage you to incorporate it into your work as there are 4 very diverse pianos at your disposal. If you are still completely unsatisfied with the product please let us know and we can sort something out.

Kindest regards,"

Or a less formal version (as you mention below you are not a "sales rep"). 

Working in retail has taught me customers are d&cks and even when they seem unreasonable you should strive to work with them. I don't think quoting Herbie is an appropriate angle.

EDIT: Not calling OP a D*** i was talking in general terms.


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## Jetzer (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

I have issues with QL Pianos, some clicking noises and some of the issues that others (OP) mentioned, but imo, you can get a really nice sound out of it. 

It can take quite some time to program them well, but I guess that's true to almost any piano library.

Plus it has a Yamaha, which I like to use for pop/rock/jingles.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



SimonCharlesHanna @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Jay maybe you could go from a different angle maybe like:
> 
> "Hello Pocoapoco,
> Very sorry to hear that you are unsatisfied with the product. It launched very successfully and has been used on a professional level in various fields for many years now. East West strive to create sample libraries as bug-free as possible but like any piece of software can have some slight issues. Unfortunately due to time constraints and project demands EW cannot revisit Pianos for the foreseeable future. We personally believe the product is fantastic and would encourage you to incorporate it into your work as there are 4 very diverse pianos at your disposal. If you are still completely unsatisfied with the product please let us know and we can sort something out.
> ...



I thank that is pandering and since I am not a sales rep, I am not asked to do that. I think it is enough that I am respectful and polite.


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## blougui (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

C'mon guys, stop this bickering 

Though I'm astonished one dev would delete a negative but opiniated post. Doesn't sound great.

I'm really curious about these blurbs on each dev pages. Really wondering how it works - as I said before, I'm an old EW user as a semi-pro composer (a couple of TV documetary under my sleeve, a few years ago), I'm new to the sample world and I was quite surprised to see all these A ou B list names praise on every page. And sometimes for products that are even not yet available. Wich means Jay, I'm afraid, that this lib were not sold but rather offered, as beta probably. So, before anyone actually contradicts this statement with impressive argument :twisted: I tend to think right now it's marketing, not an agressive one so I don't mind, but a blurb is'nt a statement, an argument that I'll take into account when I'm interested in a product. 
I'ld better come here - and try to separate ashes from dust when the fire cool down after such thread as "best piano lib" or "worst string lib" 8)


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## sin(x) (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



EastWest Lurker @ 2014-01-26 said:


> I think it is enough that I am respectful and polite.



You told a disappointed customer who went through the hassle of assembling a largely verifiable list of technical issues in thinly veiled terms that his opinion doesn't matter to anyone because he's a nobody.

You seem to confuse not using overtly offensive language with being respectful. In my book, calling him a whiny cunt wouldn't have been less respectful.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

Once again though guys, if you are really successful and can easily afford to buy them, why would you endorse it if you did not like it, even if they give it to you for free? Do you believe all of them are just whores?


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## mk282 (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ 26.1.2014 said:


> Do you believe all of them are just whores?



That's definitely one way to look at it, yes. o[])


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

mk282 @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ 26.1.2014 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you believe all of them are just whores?
> ...



Well, I don't know them personally, so I cannot accurately assess that I guess. But I would not sell my integrity so cheaply. Whether you agree with me or not, if i say i like it, I like it and if i say i use it, I use it.


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## nikolas (Jan 26, 2014)

Can we please tone down, all of you? It's quite simple really. And can we stop for a second to judge so easily? It's also easy.

And, yes, btw, I got several years ago a freebie to use in a CGEmpire competition, which, of course, I didn't keep, cause I didn't won. And I have no affiliation with EW, Jay or anyone involved in this thread.  Except JohnG who I love! ^_^


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

Nikolas. for once, I don't think anyone is getting their panties in a wad, I think we are all politely discussing. I am not offended by anything anyone has written directed at me and I hope I have not offended anyone else.


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## blougui (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> mk282 @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ 26.1.2014 said:
> ...



What I do guess now, it's just a small community, with famous users and devs in the same boat, a world with quite often musicians/composers becoming dev themselves, engaged in the same techy-arty bizz. So I would'nt be surprised if they blurb by pure sympathy, if not for the money or whatever help they could bring to one another.
And the heavy users/A list composers, well, they con afford some much gear/tools/libs that they go around a couple of bugged patches.


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## KingIdiot (Jan 26, 2014)

Don't go by blurbs. You might as well watch twilight for being a "tour de force" when they omit the "of crap" part of the statement.


I'm not saying that's what these guys say about the libs they endorse... but thr truth is, blurbs are bullshit.

go wit honest experience, take all the thoughts with a hankering of electrolytes and be refreshed in knowing what you already knew. Some things are good and some things are bad about everything.

Still... no one able to refer a piano that works in true ben folds five, or good billy joel bouncy pop, besides the real thing?


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Once again though guys, if you are really successful and can easily afford to buy them, why would you endorse it if you did not like it, even if they give it to you for free? Do you believe all of them are just whores?



So Morphestra IS a good library cos it has endorsements?

Perhaps personal relationships have more to do with endorsements than freebies.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Once again though guys, if you are really successful and can easily afford to buy them, why would you endorse it if you did not like it, even if they give it to you for free? Do you believe all of them are just whores?
> ...



i have Morphestra. i don't use it a lot because of what i am called on to write. But here is what i DO know. my friend and fellow Logic user, Tom Salta, is a ridiculously successful game composer and he uses it all the time.


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## The Darris (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

This thread is amusing in so many ways and yet rather sad too. Sucks for the OP that he spent a lot of money on a dead library, I guess some research on it should have been done versus impulsively purchasing a product with known issues of the such. Likewise, a backhand comment left by an EW voice of Famous endorsements is pretty low in many respects because quite honestly, they tell us nothing in the real world. Jay, I admire your strong will to defend your products which is fine, however, implying in nicer words that the single professional's opinion versus the 99 little guys is more important was a little low, IMHO.

I look at this issue and debate of this thread much like I look at new movies when they come out. There are two people who saw that movie before me, those who loved it and those who didn't. Those same people, without me asking, will start to tell me about it. They say things like, "Holy crap, this was a horrible movie, save your money." or "That movie was absolutely amazing, best movie I have seen yet!" and well, you get the idea. The point is that, I haven't seen it yet so I am tasked with deciding whether or not I want to spend the money to see it. This requires some level of research about it. Interviews, movie clips, reviews, etc. Based on that, I make my decision. I decide to go to the movie and it turns out that it fell short of my expectations. Am I mad, slightly but not at who made the movie or what issues I had within the movie's technical aspects. I am mad at myself for spending the money and wasting my own time on it.

I'm not a developer and I am not supporting what EW defense there is in this thread but the ultimate truth of this debate comes down to the simple fact that if you bought this library, then you should have known what issues were there and that lack of customer support on it exists. A better title for this thread should have been "Buyer Beware: Issues with EW QL Pianos." I am a huge fan that if you make a mistake, own it and help the future of others not make the same one. 

end rant;


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



The Darris @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Jay, I admire your strong will to defend your products which is fine, however, implying in nicer words that the single professional's opinion versus the 99 little guys is more important was a little low, IMHO.
> 
> end rant;



The Darris, whether it should or should not be, in the real world, it is simply a factual statement.

And _personally_, speaking just as Jay Asher, yes, I value the opinion of one guy who has earned my respect through demonstrated ability more than 99 guys who have not. If others weigh things differently, I am fine with it.


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## pocoapoco (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



SimonCharlesHanna @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> EDIT: Not calling OP a D*** i was talking in general terms.



Heh. Just relax. I never take words too seriously. Especially not words on the internet. This whole thread is getting a bit crazy though I'd say. I'm just a player. I don't earn any money from music except for tuning pianos occasionally. And I only earn roughly minimum wage in my regular job. $300 is a lot of money to blow. If I should prevent somone from going through the same ordeal, a slight bit doubtful it may be, that would be a good thing. I listed my objections in as objective a manner as I could. It is my opinion that these flaws are enough to merit not even considering this library, but seriously you should hear how this library sounds when any of the patches are played in the pp-p dynamic range on my setup. I promise you you wouldn't even recognize the sound as a piano. I play my current library, Sampletek's Black grand, and every thing sounds fine. 
But I'm not 100% satisfied with the sound of the samples themselves on the Black grand, so I was/am looking to upgrade. If this QL library was in Kontakt format and I could edit the patches extensively then I actually would have no beef with this library because the quality of the raw samples , in my opinion , is excellent. And I very well know how much potential work could be involved there as I have done extensive editing to the Black Grand library including writing large scripts among other things. As the QL library uses this Play engine, though, you're completely stuck with what you get short of manually re-recording all the samples through use of a midi sequencer. But that's even more work than I'm willing to do.


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## pavolbrezina (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



The Darris @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Sucks for the OP that he spent a lot of money on a dead library, I guess some research on it should have been done versus impulsively purchasing a product with known issues of the such.



I agree and I dont think it is bad to discuss problems here on forums. Maybe the companies wake up after this calls, it is some kind of red alert for them. If nothing else, some of the other users are warned about functionality of some products and they doesnt make jump purchases. I always do a lot of research on forums before buy anything and opinion of users are much more that "famous people" endorsements or product demos.


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## Gabriel2013 (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



Guy Rowland @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> ........Just because someone better than me can make something sound better than me, it does not in any way mitigate against quality deficiencies in the product.




Exactly, and that´s the reason I did always the following:

.Know your library.
.Try to focus more on the strength of a library and not on weakness.
.Observe how real players play the instrument you are trying to emulate.
.Compose everyday
.and the most important, learn from the masters.

There is way to many piano library out there.
If one cannot make a good piano mockup this days, hire a pianist (or yourself) and use a real piano.
Just because you are a good composer doesn´t mean you can do great mockups.
The saying "Less is more" can be applied here.


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## rayinstirling (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

My first post on this discussion was in short saying, JohnG makes the libraries he uses work for him. So many recent posts on all boards complain that this or that tool doesn't work for them or if it doesn't have this or that it won't. I'll tell this, I have loads of libraries from many different developers and the stumbling block when making music is always 99% my lack of practised skill and not the tools. I just wish more folks would own up to this fact.


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## StatKsn (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

Since the discussion has been severely derailed from OP to endorsement bla-bla, I guess it might be useful to re-list technical problems OP has got with QL Pianos.

1) Timbers are noticeably changing between velocities
2) Volume level between velocities are sometimes inconsistent
3) There is no true implementation of velocity curve adjustment - it only affects volume curve (?)
4) Attacks are a bit inconsistent
5) There is a mapping error
6) Some of the soft pedal samples are far out of tune

I think some of the things above can easily be fixed on user's own if it was Kontakt, Giga, Halion or even Play Pro (if exists at all). Especially mapping error and inconsistent volume levels.

I have had similar issue with 8Dio 1928 Legacy Piano, which velocity mapping imo is a bit all over the place and doesn't feel very natural to play with, but I was able to adjust the things to my taste because it was a plain Kontakt patch. I'm a patch-tweak junkie, after all.

If you are willing to do quite a bit of work, you can actually resample Play libraries using IL's DirectWave, but not very practical. :wink:

FL Studio Guru - Sampling VST Plugins With DirectWave http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ROoPtv9g5Q


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## emid (Jan 26, 2014)

It was better to ask help from Jay quoting the experience rather than using a provoking title and then not expect anything in return.

Just a general thought, nothing intended.


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## Gabriel2013 (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



rayinstirling @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> My first post on this discussion was in short saying, JohnG makes the libraries he uses work for him. So many recent posts on all boards complain that this or that tool doesn't work for them or if it doesn't have this or that it won't. I'll tell this, I have loads of libraries from many different developers and the stumbling block when making music is always 99% my lack of practised skill and not the tools. I just wish more folks would own up to this fact.



+1


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## pavolbrezina (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



rayinstirling @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> when making music is always 99% my lack of practised skill and not the tools. I just wish more folks would own up to this fact.



this is not true when you must stop using product because relevant issues (some bad sounding samples, some hanging samples, time spent on programming - not composing isnt worth library quality, etc.)


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## markwind (Jan 26, 2014)

Isn't inconsistent volume levels a somewhat widespread phenomenon, not just piano libs, but strings, brass, the whole shabang?? I do notice the same in EWQL SO at least. 

How does spitfire Albion fare in this, if anyone cares to share  ?


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## StatKsn (Jan 26, 2014)

markwind @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Isn't inconsistent volume levels a somewhat widespread phenomenon, not just piano libs, but strings, brass, the whole shabang?? I do notice the same in EWQL SO at least.
> 
> How does spitfire Albion fare in this, if anyone cares to share  ?



Yeah! But piano libs are the ones that suffering the most from this issue as they usually are velocity layer intensive. I thought that Ivory 2 is quite nice when it comes to consistency, but I'm not a very good piano player.


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## JT3_Jon (Jan 26, 2014)

If only we could demo sample libs before purchase, or return them if we didn't like them, threads like this would cease to exist and the world would be at peace. I actually had hope that ilok and dongle copy protection would allow this to be possible, as in theory if you return a product you dont like that uses a dongle copy protection, the company should be able to remove your license so you can no longer use the product, right? Or at the very least they can do what most audio plugin companies do, and offer a 10-30 day license for demo purposes. 

Of course returns are not in a companies interest, once they have your money, to make it easy for you to get it back. Though it seems to work fine for every other retailer of physical products (e.g. I can take a failed HD back to costco 2 years after purchase for a full refund!!)

I must admit sympathy for the OP, for if there really are show stopping technical problems he is experiencing with the library, and EW have stated they will not fix the problems, then he in fact has thrown his money away. Thats not to say someone else might not notice the problems and/or be willing to work around them, but for the OP it was a waste of money, and the worst part is that the OP had no way of knowing he would have these problems before purchasing, and now that its purchased and has problems that EW cannot or refuses to fix, he cannot return it! So it shouldn't be wonder why some rely more on real world, "no name" user feedback on products than one line blurbs by famous composers and artists.

p.s. most famous composers and artists, if they do use sample libraries, are only for mockups and end up replacing them with live instruments anyway, while for us "no names," sample libraries stand more of a chance of ending up on the final product, which should also be taken into consideration.


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## Gabriel2013 (Jan 26, 2014)

markwind @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Isn't inconsistent volume levels a somewhat widespread phenomenon, not just piano libs, but strings, brass, the whole shabang?? I do notice the same in EWQL SO at least.
> 
> How does spitfire Albion fare in this, if anyone cares to share  ?



I also notice in real players. :D


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## wesbender (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

I've gotten a lot of good mileage out of QL Pianos over the years, and I certainly wouldn't call it a 'horrible library'. Definitely has it's fair share of issues though, and a damn shame about EW's "we don't particularly care to update and especially don't give a flying crap about old products" policy.

Also mildly amused on the notion that 'celebrity testimonials' hold any sort of useful weight at all. I mean sure, they'll obviously have a positive impact on sales, but to actually try to correlate them to product quality is laughable at best, and about the most utterly useless way to respond to a thread like this.


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## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> And I feel it is because I firmly believe not all opinions are equal, so we will have to agree to disagree


The huge low end buildup in the EQ samples is not an opinion, it is a fact. So are the inconsistent velocities across the keyboard. And ones, that if EW cared to do something responsible for the purchasing customers, they could have easily fixed. 



EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> As Adrian said, "I think just about every piano out there has some problem or another."



I challenge anyone to find a problem with Vienna Imperial. Exact velocity scaling on every key, absolutely no noise, not a single bunk or errant sample I have found in using it on literally hundreds of productions over the last several years. I always find it funny that when people ask frustratedly about whether there is a piano that stands out above the rest and I mention Vienna Imperial, it is almost always ignored because of the high price tag. But if I add up all the pianos I have spent money on which now have been uninstalled (like EW Pianos, Ivory I, etc.) I could have just bought Vienna in the first place, ended up with a superior product, and saved money and time in the process. What is it that they say about "with age, comes wisdom"? :D


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## AC986 (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

Does it have staccato?


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## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



adriancook @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Does it have staccato?



From the site - Multiple release samples for different note lengths (supports authentic staccato/staccatissimo performances)


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## pavolbrezina (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



feck @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> I challenge anyone to find a problem with Vienna Imperial.



I double this and add same challenge for Ivory American D


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## NYC Composer (Jan 26, 2014)

I own and use a ton of EW libraries, but I always understood the situation.

I believe EW should make it clear they are selling their older products (some of them QUITE old) "as is". In other words, include a disclaimer-

"These are libraries that in many ways sound wonderful, but some may have various inconsistencies. They are quite useable, but these are legacy products that are unlikely to be updated, hence the extremely reasonable price. Please be aware of this at purchase."

It'll never happen, but it sure would be nice


----------



## Nick Phoenix (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*

time for the creator to chime in. 

QL Pianos is, to this day, an amazing product. The tone is extremely rich and full of harmonics. It has a ton of dynamics and it is still the only piano that has true live performance repetition samples. It is all I've used since I finished it many years ago, and it is all over countless TV programs and ads. 

I mostly use the Steinway, because I love the tone and it has a rich zing when you dig in. To me, the Steinway and the Bosendorfer feel like real pianos when you play them. I own both pianos, so my opinion is more than just opinion. And that is a big deal. Before QLP, none of the piano VSTs had that magic vibe. They felt anemic. That being said, I have found a few places where the jump from one dynamic is a tiny bit bigger than it would be ideally. This has never bothered me in my work, BUT I can see that a classical pianist might be annoyed. 

The Bosendorfer is an interesting discussion because the QLP Bosi is atypical in that it was played hard by a classical pianist for eight years before it was sampled. It has a really wide dynamic range. Most of the notes have 20 velocities and yet some could have possibly used more! be aware that when people mention the VSL Bosi, it comes from a precision viewpoint. In my opinion, the VSL Bosi is the worst sample library that Vienna ever made. Sorry for this brutal opinion, but it seems to have zero dynamic range and zero character and a lifeless sound. VSL has done some great things but this is not one of them IMO. However, maybe from a classical pianist viewpoint, it is great? I just don't know.

Also in QLP, the Bechstein does not have any issues. It is very solid for classical.

Some of the other small issues mentioned could be fixed by EW.

In summary, dismissing QLP is silly. It's pure inspiration for many of us because it emulates the feel and tone of a real piano and very few piano VIs can do that.


----------



## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



Nick Phoenix @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> The Bosendorfer is an interesting discussion because the QLP Bosi is atypical in that it was played hard by a classical pianist for eight years before it was sampled. It has a really wide dynamic range. Most of the notes have 20 velocities and yet some could have possibly used more! be aware that when people mention the VSL Bosi, it comes from a precision viewpoint. In my opinion, the VSL Bosi is the worst sample library that Vienna ever made. Sorry for this brutal opinion, but it seems to have zero dynamic range and zero character and a lifeless sound.


I think you are confusing the VSL Bosendorfer with the Vienna Imperial. The Vienna Imperial has around 127 velocities per key all played by a CEUS equipped Bosendorfer. Exact velocity scaling - literally. Done on a silent stage. The first thing I did (I bought Vienna Imperial shortly after EW Pianos) was to hold the sustain pedal and do long scalar runs up the keyboard. The EW Pianos made the subs on my MM27s shake because of all of the residual low noise rumble (there were even some samples with the low frequency rumblings of buses in the background) which is why I was unable to use them on the production I was doing at the time. The Imperial was/is absolutely silent. Not to mention all of the performance issues I was getting with PLAY at the time - constant CPU spikes when any release samples were triggered. The Imperial, at over 6 times the size, has zero performance issues to this day. The VSL Bosendorfer is a different set entirely, and one which I have not bothered to try since I have owned the Imperial since day 1. The dynamic range of the Imperial is such that if I play pianissimo to forte on my Barefoot MM27's I can literally make clients jump out of their seat. Definitely no issues with dynamic range there. 8) I chimed in for the OP solely because I understand what he is describing as issues. While I can absolutely agree that some may say they prefer the individual piano characteristics of one sample set to another, and will not attempt to dispute individual preference, I cannot, in any logical way, see how when comparing FUNCTIONALITY and CONSISTENCY, it is not absolutely clear that Vienna Imperial stands on a level of it's own. And certainly well above EW Pianos. That being said, Nick I have plenty of respect for your work and do not mean any of this to be a personal affront to you. As a working producer/composer, these are my findings when using said libraries for my work.


----------



## Nick Phoenix (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



feck @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Nick Phoenix @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > The Bosendorfer is an interesting discussion because the QLP Bosi is atypical in that it was played hard by a classical pianist for eight years before it was sampled. It has a really wide dynamic range. Most of the notes have 20 velocities and yet some could have possibly used more! be aware that when people mention the VSL Bosi, it comes from a precision viewpoint. In my opinion, the VSL Bosi is the worst sample library that Vienna ever made. Sorry for this brutal opinion, but it seems to have zero dynamic range and zero character and a lifeless sound.
> ...



I am talking about the 127 velocity imperial. I don't hear the 127. it sounds like two mf velocities to me. I prefer lasagna over wonder bread.


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## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



Nick Phoenix @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> feck @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Nick Phoenix @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> ...



Hahaha! I prefer lasagna too. :D 
I just cannot fathom that you don't hear the differences....they are VERY obvious. (The sample set size is almost 500GB after all - for one piano with 3 mic perspectives). I do TONS of velocity manipulation in Cubendo, and the thing I absolutely love about Imperial is that literally every change in velocity triggers a different sample, versus most others where blocks (eg. velocity 10-30, 35-45 etc.) all trigger the same note velocity and sample. Again, recorded tone not withstanding as it is all personal preference, the technical performance of the Imperial is something that I feel EVERY sample developer (not just piano samples either) could stand to learn something from.


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## germancomponist (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



Nick Phoenix @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> I am talking about the 127 velocity imperial. I don't hear the 127. it sounds like two mf velocities to me. I prefer lasagna over wonder bread.


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## StatKsn (Jan 26, 2014)

To be precise, Vienna Imperial is 100 velocity layers according to the product info. Oh gosh, I gotta get this.

http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/442/478/1701/1702/1305.htm


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## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

Here is a single note hit 130 times with Imperial - no sustain pedal, player position. This should demonstrate the range of the instrument....

https://soundcloud.com/strandedonaplane ... ocity-demo


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## Nick Phoenix (Jan 26, 2014)

Even that graph looks like wonder bread.


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## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

Nick Phoenix @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Even that graph looks like wonder bread.


I drew a line. What do you expect? Who cares how it looks. How it sounds is what it's there for. What it DOESN'T sound like is tons of low end rumble and uneven velocity scaling. :shock:


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## apessino (Jan 26, 2014)

feck @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Here is a single note hit 130 times with Imperial - no sustain pedal, player position. This should demonstrate the range of the instrument....
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/strandedonaplane ... ocity-demo



Awesome piece - the crescendo gave me chills! :mrgreen:


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## germancomponist (Jan 26, 2014)

Nick Phoenix @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Even that graph looks like wonder bread.



Last week I did a commercial where I had used a piano what has only one layer.... . 

The audience were very happy...! o/~


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## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

apessino @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> feck @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a single note hit 130 times with Imperial - no sustain pedal, player position. This should demonstrate the range of the instrument....
> ...


Hahahaha! It was very technically challenging. Hitting the duplicate key 130 times is surprisingly fatiguing. :mrgreen:


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## Theseus (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm afraid I hear really only 3 layers on this surprisingly entertaining demo Scott  (big fan of yours btw, you're the one that got me hooked on Softube plugins thanks to your demos and tutorials for them).

It sounds more like a round-robin of mf (definitely doesn't sound like p or pp or pop) form 0 to 44s, then a slightly more pronounced mf till 1min, then a layer of forte. And that's it. It's very consistent, no doubt about that. But it's doesn't really sound dynamic.


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## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

Theseus @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> I'm afraid I hear really only 3 layers on this surprisingly entertaining demo Scott  (big fan of yours btw, you're the one that got me hooked on Softube plugins thanks to your demos and tutorials for them).



Thanks a lot! I really appreciate the kind words. Softube is such a killer company...glad to have helped spread the word.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

Look, from the very beginning VSL and EW have had a different aesthetic goal that roughly translates to VSL going for what I will term "immaculate." The price of immaculate is that it also can be viewed a lacking in character. EW has always gone more for "character." The price of character is that it can be viewed as less than immaculate.

Neither is wrong, neither is a better aesthetic empirically.

You buy and use what suits you.


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## drasticmeasures (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> 1 Herbie Hancock matters more than 100 negatives by unknowns.



Careful, Jay. You yourself are an "unknown"...so by your own mantra no one should care what you think...

Not that what I think matters either, but I find this kind of passive-aggressive bullying counter productive to the goal of an open forum. 

The OP is entitled to his opinion. I would hope that the mods wouldn't pasteurize the post - that's why most people migrated away from Northern Sounds.


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## Diffusor (Jan 26, 2014)

feck @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Here is a single note hit 130 times with Imperial - no sustain pedal, player position. This should demonstrate the range of the instrument....
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/strandedonaplane ... ocity-demo



Very impressive how smooth that is! Now you should try it with EWQL Pianos and see how that sounds.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

Nathan Furst @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > 1 Herbie Hancock matters more than 100 negatives by unknowns.
> ...



First of all, while certainly I am not famous I am not an unknown either. By virtue of "Zorro", and my Logic books, I am "known" enough to have been hired to write columns and articles for MacProVideo's Hub and Film Music Magazine and people, some even here, have paid me money to give them my opinions and expertise.

Secondly, I never write about what I _don't_ like, only what I _do_, so no developer needs to ever get mad at me.

Thirdly, I don't give a big rodent's hiney whether people care what I think anyway 

Oh, and_ of course_ Herbie Hancock's opinion on a piano library is worth more than mine.


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## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

Diffusor @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> feck @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a single note hit 130 times with Imperial - no sustain pedal, player position. This should demonstrate the range of the instrument....
> ...


I totally would but I uninstalled it a while ago....if anyone needs the virtuoso-like MIDI file that I took hours to create, I will be happy to send it to an EW Pianos user. :D


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## Diffusor (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Nathan Furst @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> ...



Was Herbie Hancock's opinion the same as you said Hans Zimmer's was?


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## NYC Composer (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Secondly, I never write about what I _don't_ like, only what I _do_, so no developer needs to ever get mad at me.



Jay, this may make you a valuable asset for EW, but perhaps less of one in a forum where people are bandying about opinions, deciding what they wish to buy and use and what they don't. I'm not sure I see where exclusive positivism is all that helpful in this venue.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 26, 2014)

Arrrgghhh! *Mods, please ignore my reporting...someone!* Those buttons can get really tiny on an iPad. Sorry to whoever!

(Oh, if you *EVER* see me report someone, please ignore it- I don't tattle-I bite)


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Secondly, I never write about what I _don't_ like, only what I _do_, so no developer needs to ever get mad at me.
> ...



Larry, my view is that in a world where so many focus on the a negative, having some people like me who focus on the positive is not a bad thing. Either way, it is how I choose to live my life and deal with my career. People here are free to assign as much or as little value to that as they want, I really don't care.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 26, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



pocoapoco @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Heh. Just relax. I never take words too seriously. Especially not words on the internet.



I'm sorry that your purchase disappointed you and you have every right to express your opinion, but the hyperbolic way you titled your thread led to a lot of unnecessary bickering, so I would respectfully ask you to reconsider the statement you made above. The words you choose, on the Internet or anywhere else, matter.

The creator of this library is engaged in this thread- would you really have told him to his face that his many months of really exhausting work trying to make the greatest piano library that ever existed had resulted in a "terrible library"? Perhaps so, but probably not. I think you might have discussed the problems with him, even showed annoyance or disappointment, but nothing that confrontational or absolute.

Again, in my opinion, the words you choose matter, on the Internet or anywhere else. Cheers.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> ...



Awww Jay- and here I thought you cared. ::sniffle::


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## woodsdenis (Jan 26, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Arrrgghhh! *Mods, please ignore my reporting...someone!* Those buttons can get really tiny on an iPad. Sorry to whoever!
> 
> (Oh, if you *EVER* see me report someone, please ignore it- I don't tattle-I bite)



Actually in all seriousness I did exactly the same thing a couple of days ago, beware fudge fingered iPad users.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

As did I


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## Nick Phoenix (Jan 26, 2014)

Thank goodness for options. one mans trash is another's treasure and one mans lasagna is another mans wonder bread.


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## apessino (Jan 26, 2014)

Well, I went and bought the *Pianoteq 4* (standard) earlier today, based on reading this thread. 

All I can say is... :shock: :shock: :shock: 

I have been playing it for hours - can't stop... What an amazing thing this is. I didn't think anything could surpass the American D but damn... this thing sure does.

The interface is a thing of beauty, the depth of programmability unprecedented, and dude... what a sound! What amazing expressiveness. And it uses essentially no memory and very little CPU. I'll be damned... :shock: Physical modeling is winning more and more. 

This is my new piano, not even a contest. Thank you so much to those that recommended it here. 8)


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## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

Absolutely agreed - everyone is entitled to and deserving of choosing what they prefer. HOWEVER, let me ask this question in all seriousness.

Can Nick/Jay/anyone tell me honestly that they PREFER noisy samples with idiosyncratic velocity/timing settings? I think the answer to that is "no". Because the OP said (and I agree) that the overall SOUND of EW Pianos is quite nice. It is the technical issues which have not been addressed (as seems to be quite common with EW products) which end up creating problems for the users which either they were not warned about, or have not been offered fixes for. The whole reason I brought up Vienna Imperial is that, to date, it is the most perfectly technically executed sample based piano released. Were EW (and other developers as well) to adopt some of that Viennese precision, I can't help but think we as composers would all be better off having tools which, while having different sonic characteristics, have a similarly honed level of technical accuracy.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

Scott I am not that analytical. I open up an instrument, I play it and if I like what I am hearing, I continue until I do not. At that point, I reach for something else.


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## StatKsn (Jan 26, 2014)

apessino, agreed!

I recommend demo'ing Pianoteq 4 to anyone looking for a virtual piano. I was not particularly a fan of the way it sounds when it was 2 or 3, but totally blown away by the latest version. I love the fact that you can morph between "mint" and "bent" state 8)

BTW I prefer Piano in Blue for a colored, noisy piano than anything else. You can even add some tape noise while not playing.


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## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Scott I am not that analytical. I open up an instrument, I play it and if I like what I am hearing, I continue until I do not. At that point, I reach for something else.


Fair enough. o-[][]-o


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## RiffWraith (Jan 26, 2014)

*OH JEEZUZ H. *&[email protected]# K-RIST EVERYONE JUST SHUT UP ALREADY!!!!!!!*


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 26, 2014)

Rotfl!


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## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> *OH JEEZUZ H. *&[email protected]# K-RIST EVERYONE JUST SHUT UP ALREADY!!!!!!!*


Isn't discussing the technical features and merits of high end sample sets the whole point of VI Control?


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## markwind (Jan 26, 2014)

I don't know if it's just me, but I love lasagna with some bread to go along with it. 

o[])


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## pocoapoco (Jan 26, 2014)

feck @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> I totally would but I uninstalled it a while ago....if anyone needs the virtuoso-like MIDI file that I took hours to create, I will be happy to send it to an EW Pianos user. :D


You could send it to me.
Seriously I know that's not necessary. Can anyone upload to the sound cloud? I've never used it before.


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## feck (Jan 26, 2014)

pocoapoco @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> feck @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > I totally would but I uninstalled it a while ago....if anyone needs the virtuoso-like MIDI file that I took hours to create, I will be happy to send it to an EW Pianos user. :D
> ...


I sent it to Paul - I believe he is going to do one. If you PM me your email I can send you the mp3 and midi file.


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## pocoapoco (Jan 26, 2014)

here
http://soundcloud.com/pocoapoco2/bb1qlbechv1-127


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## apessino (Jan 26, 2014)

pocoapoco @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> here
> http://soundcloud.com/pocoapoco2/bb1qlbechv1-127



Yeah... that is not good. :lol:


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## paoling (Jan 26, 2014)

Actually the low-end rumble pocoapoco is talking about is often caused by the constant adding of layers when the sustain pedal is down. So when scripting a piano it should be desiderable to implement a kind of self-masking system to save polyphony, prevent phasing issues and strange rumbles.


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## StatKsn (Jan 26, 2014)

pocoapoco @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> here
> http://soundcloud.com/pocoapoco2/bb1qlbechv1-127



I can hear a velocity jump (0:16/1:53), pop/click (0:34) and velocity going backward?! (1:04) as the op stated in this example. Definitely not very smooth. The resonance in upper velocity is pretty nice to my ears, though.

Paoling, isn't it possible to limit maximum number of voice in the advanced properties of Play, just like in Kontakt? Might be useful to suppress the rumbling.


----------



## Nick Phoenix (Jan 26, 2014)

feck @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Absolutely agreed - everyone is entitled to and deserving of choosing what they prefer. HOWEVER, let me ask this question in all seriousness.
> 
> Can Nick/Jay/anyone tell me honestly that they PREFER noisy samples with idiosyncratic velocity/timing settings? I think the answer to that is "no". Because the OP said (and I agree) that the overall SOUND of EW Pianos is quite nice. It is the technical issues which have not been addressed (as seems to be quite common with EW products) which end up creating problems for the users which either they were not warned about, or have not been offered fixes for. The whole reason I brought up Vienna Imperial is that, to date, it is the most perfectly technically executed sample based piano released. Were EW (and other developers as well) to adopt some of that Viennese precision, I can't help but think we as composers would all be better off having tools which, while having different sonic characteristics, have a similarly honed level of technical accuracy.



There are 2 technical sides
1. PLAy
2. The individual libraries/ samples

QL libraries are not particularly buggy. In fact, now that I am mostly composing these days and have bought a ton of other libraries and I have to say that QL products are pretty far up the ladder as far as programming goes. A lot of what passes for new and improved just isn't. A good example is choir. Also, most people don't realize that certain imperfections are the key to making realistic mockups. The slurred staccato violins in EWHS are the absolute bomb, and most people don't use them!!!


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## Nick Phoenix (Jan 26, 2014)

paoling @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Actually the low-end rumble pocoapoco is talking about is often caused by the constant adding of layers when the sustain pedal is down. So when scripting a piano it should be desiderable to implement a kind of self-masking system to save polyphony, prevent phasing issues and strange rumbles.



Yes and we had this 4 years ago, but then the script became incompatible with PLAY and it was never redone. I would suggest this to EW because it also saves polyphony!!


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## pocoapoco (Jan 26, 2014)

StatKsn @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> I can hear a velocity jump (0:16/1:53), pop/click (0:34) and velocity going backward?! (1:04) as the op stated in this example. Definitely not very smooth. The resonance in upper velocity is pretty nice to my ears, though.



I didn't spend any time picking out a particularly aggregious note either. I picked one at random pretty much. After trying a few others I'd have to say the note I did select is quite typical and not at all the worst. For example B2 on the same instrument has the broblems of Bb1 with the addition of the performer splitting a note at the highest velocity sample. It's not a solid split but it's definitely there. F#3 exhibits worse negative velocity. etc.


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## mk282 (Jan 27, 2014)

StatKsn @ 27.1.2014 said:


> apessino, agreed!
> 
> I recommend demo'ing Pianoteq 4 to anyone looking for a virtual piano. I was not particularly a fan of the way it sounds when it was 2 or 3, but totally blown away by the latest version. I love the fact that you can morph between "mint" and "bent" state 8)
> 
> BTW I prefer Piano in Blue for a colored, noisy piano than anything else. You can even add some tape noise while not playing.



Or - try Pianoteq 4 with u-he Satin for tape magic! 

You can also dirty up Pianoteq's sound via IRs and Amp effect.


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## pavolbrezina (Jan 27, 2014)

StatKsn @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> pocoapoco @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > here
> ...



Most unrealistic release samples I ever hear in piano library. Does EW ever going to fix this?


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## Casiquire (Jan 27, 2014)

Sorry to say I'm not a fan of Pianoteq. The mid-high notes and higher just sound too pure, especially the higher the dynamic. Dense chords sound good with Pianoteq but those higher notes just aren't to my liking. Is there any other library out there with the EWQL Bechstein-like sound but without the EWQL?


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## blougui (Jan 27, 2014)

mk282 @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> StatKsn @ 27.1.2014 said:
> 
> 
> > apessino, agreed!
> ...



I installed the trial version yesterday and had a joy playing around the different keys. the morph option is brilliant ! The overall twekability is fun. May be it lacks body in the lower register ? But the playability is there, at least for my - low level - of training. some of the add-ons are worth checking too - but some of them would be out of my price tag.


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## christerholm (Jan 27, 2014)

*Re: Bought EW QL Pianos recently: Save your money. Don't buy this horrible library.*



Daryl @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> My current sampled piano of choice is Galaxy II. Particularly the Steinway.
> 
> D



Galaxy II gets my vote too, I have used it for ages, and it still is my favorite. I also got EW Pianos even before I got Galaxy II, but I somehow never ended up using them, they just don't "agree" with what I was doing.

The biggest drawback is the lack of sostenuto, which I am amazed they could not just program in, but it seems that it wont happen, since it's been years and years since it came out.


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## mk282 (Jan 27, 2014)

blougui @ 27.1.2014 said:


> I installed the trial version yesterday and had a joy playing around the different keys. the morph option is brilliant ! The overall twekability is fun. May be it lacks body in the lower register ? But the playability is there, at least for my - low level - of training. some of the add-ons are worth checking too - but some of them would be out of my price tag.



Play with the harmonics sliders, the timbral EQ, move the mics around, there's plenty to tweak and shape the sound how you want it.


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## StatKsn (Jan 27, 2014)

mk282 @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> Or - try Pianoteq 4 with u-he Satin for tape magic!
> 
> You can also dirty up Pianoteq's sound via IRs and Amp effect.



Still not an owner of Satin (hope to get my hands dirty soon), but Soundtoys Decapitator and Klanghelm SDRR are my amp weapon of choice at this time. Decapitator can produce some beautifully trashed sound and SDRR for more subtle fuzziness.

With these and a bit of EQing w/ multiband comp, I think Pianoteq could get quite of mojo, but I just started exploring it...


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## Marius Masalar (Jan 27, 2014)

Casiquire @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> Sorry to say I'm not a fan of Pianoteq. The mid-high notes and higher just sound too pure, especially the higher the dynamic. Dense chords sound good with Pianoteq but those higher notes just aren't to my liking. Is there any other library out there with the EWQL Bechstein-like sound but without the EWQL?


The beauty of Pianoteq is that, unlike sampled instruments, you have a tremendous range of flexibility in terms of sculpting the sound.

With no work, it is indeed an extremely pure tonality. But slide the Condition down around the 1.0 range and things liven up immediately, and very charmingly. A lot of times people approach Pianoteq the same way we approach samples, with the notion that all you can do to it is process _on top_ of the sound, but as soon as you start delving into what you can do to the sound itself—before any processing—that's when its potential is unleashed.

I say this as someone who doesn't own EWQL Pianos but has either owned or played most of the other sampled piano options out there...I love many of them, but as a piano player I'll take the Pianoteq (Bluethner model with my own edits) over any of them in 90% of cases.


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## 667 (Jan 27, 2014)

pavolbrezina @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> StatKsn @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > pocoapoco @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> ...


No because Herbie Hancock said it was the best piano library in 2005.

I wish I was joking. :-(


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## tfishbein82 (Jan 27, 2014)

Mathazzar @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> I say this as someone who doesn't own EWQL Pianos but has either owned or played most of the other sampled piano options out there...I love many of them, but as a piano player I'll take the Pianoteq (Bluethner model with my own edits) over any of them in 90% of cases.


The Bluthner is my favorite model too. Any presets you could share?


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## pavolbrezina (Jan 27, 2014)

667 @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> pavolbrezina @ Mon Jan 27 said:
> 
> 
> > StatKsn @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> ...



:lol:


----------



## Marius Masalar (Jan 27, 2014)

tfishbein82 @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> Mathazzar @ Mon Jan 27 said:
> 
> 
> > I say this as someone who doesn't own EWQL Pianos but has either owned or played most of the other sampled piano options out there...I love many of them, but as a piano player I'll take the Pianoteq (Bluethner model with my own edits) over any of them in 90% of cases.
> ...


I don't see why not!

Naturally, I have several as I tend to make a new preset to suit each project, but I'm happy to share the one that I use when I sit down just to play the piano.

It's based off the Studio BA preset (you'll need the Bluethner add-on to use this), but with some modifications almost everywhere...Tuning, Voicing, Design, Action, etc. The Condition slider is also at a comfortable point that gives the piano some character without making it sound like an antique.

You can grab the preset here and load it into Pianoteq:

http://d.pr/f/odUL

If you're going to use it in a mix, I recommend you turn the reverb off and do your own space + character processing, but as a simple sit-down-and-play preset this makes me happy.

Enjoy :D


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## ptsmith (Jan 27, 2014)

Nick Phoenix @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> paoling @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Actually the low-end rumble pocoapoco is talking about is often caused by the constant adding of layers when the sustain pedal is down. So when scripting a piano it should be desiderable to implement a kind of self-masking system to save polyphony, prevent phasing issues and strange rumbles.
> ...


So for 4 years EW has knowingly sold a broken product? That doesn't seem right, Nick. I wouldn't have bought Pianos back in the summer had I known.


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## blougui (Jan 27, 2014)

mk282 @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> blougui @ 27.1.2014 said:
> 
> 
> > I installed the trial version yesterday and had a joy playing around the different keys. the morph option is brilliant ! The overall twekability is fun. May be it lacks body in the lower register ? But the playability is there, at least for my - low level - of training. some of the add-ons are worth checking too - but some of them would be out of my price tag.
> ...



It's really a lot of fun !!!
To the point one could get lost. I now will try a few eq in Cubase.

- Erik


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## StatKsn (Jan 27, 2014)

Thanks for sharing, Mathazzar! Great sounding patch for an atmospheric track.

One thing I still don't like about Pianoteq 4 is that the key release sample is very monochrome and tends to overlap on a chord. Have anyone tried layering a release sample from another library?


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## tfishbein82 (Jan 27, 2014)

StatKsn @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> Thanks for sharing, Mathazzar! Great sounding patch for an atmospheric track.
> 
> One thing I still don't like about Pianoteq 4 is that the key release sample is very monochrome and tends to overlap on a chord. Have anyone tried layering a release sample from another library?


If you're talking about the key clicks, I agree. I always turn the volume way down on these, so they're barely audible.


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## Marius Masalar (Jan 27, 2014)

My pleasure!

I should have probably mentioned that it's tweaked for solo use—plenty of noises (including the key releases) and a wider unison width than you'd want if it were supposed to live in a mix with others.

In theory there's no reason you couldn't turn the key releases off entirely in Pianoteq and add in your own sampled ones, it would just take a lot of time and effort. Probably only worth it for important exposed/solo passages, as it wouldn't even be audible otherwise.


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## kitekrazy (Jan 27, 2014)

germancomponist @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Nick Phoenix @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Even that graph looks like wonder bread.
> ...



POTW!!!

At one time Sesame Street was worried about using artificial feathers on the Big Bird costumes.


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## blougui (Jan 27, 2014)

mk282 @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> blougui @ 27.1.2014 said:
> 
> 
> > I installed the trial version yesterday and had a joy playing around the different keys. the morph option is brilliant ! The overall twekability is fun. May be it lacks body in the lower register ? But the playability is there, at least for my - low level - of training. some of the add-ons are worth checking too - but some of them would be out of my price tag.
> ...



Thanx ! Yes, really efficient and fun as well. Could be lost in twiddling though ~o)


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## Nick Phoenix (Jan 27, 2014)

ptsmith @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> Nick Phoenix @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > paoling @ Sun Jan 26 said:
> ...



No we made a script after the pianos came out and it never saw the light of day. it has nothing to do with broken.


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## The Darris (Jan 27, 2014)

This is slightly off topic but the only reason I have yet to get any EWQL product (besides Spaces) is due to Play. I have not read, heard, or seen anything positive about it. The fact that it limits us from much tweaking is a deal killer for me. 

Aside from that, Spaces is a quality product that I use in nearly every cue. So, they do make great products, just some have terribly application which is, in a way, kinda sad.


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## pocoapoco (Jan 27, 2014)

The Darris @ Tue Jan 28 said:


> This is slightly off topic but the only reason I have yet to get any EWQL product (besides Spaces) is due to Play. I have not read, heard, or seen anything positive about it. The fact that it limits us from much tweaking is a deal killer for me.



You're not really off topic. I wouldn't have even started this thread if Play allowed the same level of user programming that Kontakt does. As I said I like the samples in general in this library. I like the amount of "space" in the samples mostly. But the programming for the patch is downright terrible. I can't put a positive light on it if I tried.


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## christerholm (Jan 28, 2014)

pocoapoco @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> here
> http://soundcloud.com/pocoapoco2/bb1qlbechv1-127



Oh my, this sounds like a total joke compared to that Vienna example.


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## StatKsn (Jan 28, 2014)

tfishbein82 @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> If you're talking about the key clicks, I agree. I always turn the volume way down on these, so they're barely audible.



Yes. It bothers me when playing solo - it sounds like it has only one key click sound with some panning. But as Mathazzar pointed out, it might be not that much of problem if it is buried in an ensemble. I usually layer Acousticsamples B-Pian's release samples when a piano I like doesn't have a key click, but I'm yet to test with Pianoteq.



The Darris @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> This is slightly off topic but the only reason I have yet to get any EWQL product (besides Spaces) is due to Play. I have not read, heard, or seen anything positive about it. The fact that it limits us from much tweaking is a deal killer for me.
> 
> Aside from that, Spaces is a quality product that I use in nearly every cue. So, they do make great products, just some have terribly application which is, in a way, kinda sad.



QL Spaces is a great, great reverb plugin, but it is worth mentioning that it was also quite buggy just like Play (pre-delay creeps up/CPU load 99%/pops and clicks) upon the release. Luckily, Spaces never had an endorsement from Herbie Hancock so it eventually got fixed 8)


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## Grilled Cheese (Feb 3, 2014)

feck @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> Plus EW Pianos have TONS of low frequency rumble which builds up during sustain pedal runs to the point of un-useability. Do yourself a favor and buy Vienna Imperial. There is literally not one technical glitch I have found in that library at all, and of all of the sample sets I own (virtually all of them), Imperial goes on about 90% of my productions.



I admit that I haven't read this entire thread (kind of tuned out on page 2 when it seemed to be derailing) but I did want to add my 2 cents.

The low frequency rumble that feck mentioned is a massive problem for me too. Many of the samples have an extraordinary amount of rumble in them and that to me is the biggest problem with this library.

Otherwise I've been really happy with it. The pianos have an opulent sound that I really enjoy, but unfortunately I never use them for exposed piano lines because the LF rumble really does make them unusable. Low cut filters don't solve the problem either because they cut too much off the actual piano sound. To really get rid of the rumble in some patches I'd have to cut all the way up to 150 Hz. 

And for that reason I'm looking for a new piano library(s) now.


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## Grilled Cheese (Feb 3, 2014)

I've been lurking here for so long that I didn't even realize that my previous comment was my first post. And it was a complaint! Bummer. Will take it upon myself to spread some happier vibes in future posts. :D 

Glad to (finally) be a part of the vi community.


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## Casiquire (Feb 3, 2014)

I've been toying with Pianoteq since people whose opinions I trust keep suggesting it, and I have to say that not a single preset for that thing really sounds "good". Once I got my hands on it and changed basically everything it started to get better. I wound up buying it just to see how much better it could get and I'm finally getting some sounds that I like out of it. There are still some ranges where it doesn't sound perfect and the high notes seem far too loud compared to the low notes but overall, while the sound is very different from EWQL Pianos, it's getting me close to the level of satisfaction I got from playing them without any of the bugs, with a hundredth of the ram, and with one fewer iLok.

If people from Pianoteq ever read this...please change your demos so they don't sound as sterile and artificially pristine, it kept me away from Pianoteq for a long time. Especially in mid-range louder dynamics, no piano sounds the way the demos and video examples do!



chrispire @ Mon 03 Feb said:


> I've been lurking here for so long that I didn't even realize that my previous comment was my first post. And it was a complaint! Bummer. Will take it upon myself to spread some happier vibes in future posts. :D
> 
> Glad to (finally) be a part of the vi community.



Welcome, Good Sir or Madam!


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## leafInTheWind (Feb 4, 2014)

+1 pianoteq.


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## zvenx (Feb 4, 2014)

JT3_Jon @ Sun Jan 26 said:


> If only we could demo sample libs before purchase, or return them if we didn't like them, threads like this would cease to exist and the world would be at peace. I actually had hope that ilok and dongle copy protection would allow this to be possible, as in theory if you return a product you dont like that uses a dongle copy protection, the company should be able to remove your license so you can no longer use the product, right? Or at the very least they can do what most audio plugin companies do, and offer a 10-30 day license for demo purposes.
> 
> Of course returns are not in a companies interest, once they have your money, to make it easy for you to get it back. Though it seems to work fine for every other retailer of physical products (e.g. I can take a failed HD back to costco 2 years after purchase for a full refund!!)
> 
> ...



This.

rsp


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## zvenx (Feb 4, 2014)

As of December 2013, my vote for realistic acoustic piano's are VIlabs, and will continue to be that until something else comes along that impresses me more.

rsp


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## Bach (Feb 7, 2014)

As a long term user of QL Pianos I would like to chime in. 
In my opinion this library is a very respectable piano library. It used to be a very good effort some years ago. 
Now, the problem was that it took a lot of time to be actually usable due to the PLAY engine shortcomings. 

Let me note that there were huge problems in the PLAY engine that made this library unsusable. EW were always denying that these problems ever existed and Jay, as helpful as he tries to be, always sees things from Logic's perspective, which consequently also makes him reluctant to accept a problem that happens in another DAW. 


Of course, in the end EW accepted that the problem was on PLAY's end but It took more than one year to make this library usable in Cubase, DP and Studio One. 

Now, it would be really nice if these libraries actually got an update to bring them up-to-date with current standards. If not for anything else, at least as a compensation for the slow development of the PLAY engine.


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## mk282 (Feb 7, 2014)

Casiquire @ 4.2.2014 said:


> I've been toying with Pianoteq since people whose opinions I trust keep suggesting it, and I have to say that not a single preset for that thing really sounds "good".



I would beg to differ. D4 Daily Practice preset is amazing for any kind of general purpose piano work, and so are most of Player presets. I particularly like the Blüthner Intimate preset for softer piano work. Every preset has its place and as such are quite usable.

But yes - once you start tweaking stuff, this is where Pianoteq really shines, providing you things you cannot do with any other virtual piano.



Casiquire @ 4.2.2014 said:


> and the high notes seem far too loud compared to the low notes



Double-click the Volume slider and you have individual note editing where you can adjust the volume of each key separately. This works even in Pianoteq Standard, no need for Pro.


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## Casiquire (Feb 7, 2014)

Thank you for the info, I'll play with that for sure! I disagree about the presets though, they need a LOT of work to sound realistic and to get character in my opinion. Then again I'm incredibly particular about the sound and tone of my pianos. Now that I know how to fix the levels of individual notes (I though I'd need Pro for that! Thanks again) my last remaining issue is that when I hit at high dynamics the piano starts to sound like an old-school 70s stage piano, there's a lot of twang. Lowering the hammer hardness takes away some of the power of the high notes so I was going to mess with the harmonics tonight to see if that would do the trick. Otherwise I don't regret my decision at all but it takes a lot of work IMO.


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