# LASS First Chair 2



## korgoasys (Jun 15, 2012)

Hi,

(a) I've been searching for an audio demo specifically for the above. It may be it is hidden within the demos on the Audiobro web site but I'm not sure. Has anyone been able to track a demo(s) down?

(b) What would you consider to be a useful first purchase from the LASS libraries as an introduction to later add-ons? 

Regards,
Patrick


----------



## Erik (Jun 15, 2012)

Hi Patrick,
If you like your strings _very much out of tune_ LASS is your choice. I wouldn't even consider buying only the FC strings if I were you.

Best,
Erik


----------



## synthetic (Jun 15, 2012)

Bullcrap. LASS sounds amazing. Especially version 2. If you want "perfect" strings, get VSL. But listen to demos of both and tell me which one sounds more like human beings.


----------



## sbkp (Jun 15, 2012)

Erik @ Fri Jun 15 said:


> If you like your strings _very much out of tune_ LASS is your choice. I wouldn't even consider buying only the FC strings if I were you.



Any time a developer badmouths another developer, it just makes the one doing the talking look bad. And for it to come out in such a rude, dismissive way... just... wow.


----------



## david robinson (Jun 15, 2012)

synthetic @ Fri Jun 15 said:


> Bullcrap. LASS sounds amazing. Especially version 2. If you want "perfect" strings, get VSL. But listen to demos of both and tell me which one sounds more like human beings.



solo violinists are supposed to play "in tune" with the piece including adjusting the pitch microtonally.
a "first chair or second" might not be required to do so, by themselves, being part of a larger group.
the broadness and lushness of strings is coursed by looseness within a boundary.
this goes for timing as well.
j.


----------



## Resoded (Jun 15, 2012)

Tuning with lass has only bothered me once, and the microtuning tool with LASS 2.0 is easy to use.


----------



## Erik (Jun 16, 2012)

Just listen at tracks 3 and 4.. Starting from 0:13. 

[EDIT: added new tracks with only legato used]

I did not mention the_ full _version of LASS in which these tuning issues are less prominent. But FC is here at stake, isn't it?
Again: consequently for me the smaller divisions are often unusable. I wish that this issue would have been solved given the expressive possibilities of this library.

There are more visitors on the Audiobro forum complaining about this problem btw.

Adjusting with microtuning is a tedious task, but generally quite useless, since it is especially the _attack_ part of the patches that is involved, not so much the other part.


----------



## Blakus (Jun 16, 2012)

You are using the portamento transitions in the places you specify. That sample would sound 100x better (and in tune) if in that semitone run up, you used the straight legato transition instead. Portamento is a type of transition that more slowly settles into the note. Settling in this way on repeated semitone intervals will always sound a little weird and somewhat sloppy because string players rarely play like this. You are asking them to pretty much slide up a string with a single finger. IMO the portamento transition should be used far less in that example in general. It sounds best when reaching for larger intervals. At least when playing my cello, this is where portamento is most natural.

Personally I love FC.

http://soundcloud.com/blakus-mfm/lass-2-0-1-romantic-flight/download (http://soundcloud.com/blakus-mfm/lass-2 ... t/download)


----------



## JohannesR (Jun 16, 2012)

Just thought I would share a, to me, interesting eye-opener on this subject.

I had this great opportunity to join a composer colleague for a session in Lyndhurst hall, Air Studios. He was recording for a film. Leaving the control room and just standing in the hall, there was this great beautiful sound which I will never forget. The hall, the players and the music was top notch.

When I got back and listened to the Pro Tools sessions in my studio, it still sounded as great as I remembered. But when I started soloing the different close microphones, suddenly I heard all these small nuances; a player being a little bit off here and there, another musician slightly out of tune on a note or two, a creak from a string etc. When I listened to all the microphones back in, all these inconsistencies were gone - and it sounded great!

What I realised is that those human factors contribute to the overall sound in a positive way! Less sterile, less mechanic, more human sounding!

As for LASS, the occasions when I have problems with the tuning is when I need to use the different groups (1st, A, B or C) alone. Then I have to do a walkaround or two. But at the same time I have to keep in mind that LASS probably would not have sounded that great in unison, hadn't it been for those imperfections. How much imperfection is too much? Well, that is a personal matter, but in my book there are way too many stiff sounding libraries - which is great for the occasions when the purpose is to sound like a machine, off course.

Personally, I dig LASS with all it's great sounding imperfections. 

And, the unrivaled scripting does not hurt :D


----------



## Erik (Jun 16, 2012)

Johannes and Blakus,

I have added two tracks with http://eotte.blogspot.nl/2012/04/solo-violin-to-section.html (only legato). Tracks 3 and 5. I admit that tuning issues are more or less solved this way. I keep thinking however, that while using the _isolated _FC or A-B sections the real espressivo patches don't sound exactly the way I would like to see it. Maybe I am the only one here.

The_ combination _of sections and FC always have been a major strenght of LASS, in this respect you are just right. I often prefer layering different products btw, LASS included.


----------



## Blakus (Jun 16, 2012)

Thanks for adding the extra examples Erik. To get the sections sounding right by themselves takes more dynamic CC control of the phrases than those examples use too IMO. It takes a bit more careful sculpting since you are dealing with different patches that have different imperfections (of the nice variety IMO).

I agree, the combination of all LASS sections together is fantastic IMO.
I made a quick video a few weeks ago for a few people that shows my approach to putting LASS desks together if anyone is bored :lol:


----------



## BoulderBrow (Jun 16, 2012)

Blakus @ Sat Jun 16 said:


> Thanks for adding the extra examples Erik. To get the sections sounding right by themselves takes more dynamic CC control of the phrases than those examples use too IMO. It takes a bit more careful sculpting since you are dealing with different patches that have different imperfections (of the nice variety IMO).
> 
> I agree, the combination of all LASS sections together is fantastic IMO.
> I made a quick video a few weeks ago for a few people that shows my approach to putting LASS desks together if anyone is bored :lol:




Bloody eck, blown away by that mate! Great work


----------



## Thonex (Jun 16, 2012)

Erik @ Fri Jun 15 said:


> Hi Patrick,
> If you like your strings _very much out of tune_ LASS is your choice. I wouldn't even consider buying only the FC strings if I were you.
> 
> Best,
> Erik



I'm sorry you feel that way Erik. Fortunately, not everyone agrees with you. I'm not here to debate... so I'm just going to post this for perspective and then leave.

Just a few facts to be pointed out here:

1) Initially, LASS FC was never designed to be played as "solo" instruments.
2) LASS FCs were recorded in the first chair position in order to blend and add more detail to their respective string sections... to be the section leader so to speak. 
3) Regardless, many users started using LASS FC as featured solo instruments because they liked LASS FC much more than other "solo string" libraries.
4) People began asking for a "just the First Chairs" version of LASS (as well as a LASS Lite option)
5) Both of those (what we call introductory) sets did very well with almost little to no complaints.

I bring this up because, while LASS FC was not originally _conceived_ as a separate solo string library, people have been doing amazing things with that library. But in the end it's just a tool. At the end of the day... you still need be a good carpenter to make a good chair.

One example of a FC patch is the "*Violas Improvised*" demo/tutorial here (done in 2009.. with the first version of LASS -- LASS FC 2 gives many different sound alternatives):
http://audiobro.com/demos/audio-tutorials/

Regarding any tuning requests, every time we release an update... we try to add new features and improve our library in all areas... and that would also include tuning. Some people are more sensitive, others love the organicness. We try to find a good balance.

Cheers,

Andrew K


----------



## korgoasys (Jun 16, 2012)

Chaps, 

Thanks a bundle for this.

I'm not born with perfect pitch although I've known many who have been. I gather this 'in tune--out of tune' discussion might not affect only the perfect pitch brigade but I'll persevere with your in-put. The FC demos I've heard so far (for which many thanks to you) are fine to me. I'm just curious if LASS FC might be the right library to start out tentatively on LASS.

Must dash. I'm singing tenor in a Diamond Jubilee concert in a couple of hours---there's plenty of 'in tune/out of tune' to be had there. Zadok the Priest is tricky if you're to get it precisely right- all those Amens and Allelulias

Regards,
Patrick


----------



## José Herring (Jun 16, 2012)

Blakus @ Sat Jun 16 said:


> Thanks for adding the extra examples Erik. To get the sections sounding right by themselves takes more dynamic CC control of the phrases than those examples use too IMO. It takes a bit more careful sculpting since you are dealing with different patches that have different imperfections (of the nice variety IMO).
> 
> I agree, the combination of all LASS sections together is fantastic IMO.
> I made a quick video a few weeks ago for a few people that shows my approach to putting LASS desks together if anyone is bored :lol:




Most convincing LASS 2 demo I've heard to date. 

After years of stalling, I'm off to convince my wife, why I desperately need to take another thousand out of the account. :lol: 

Oh, one thing. Make sure and adjust the track offset. The legatos are slow and fall really well behind the main pulse in your demo. Tighten up the timing between the desk by off setting forward the tracks in Cubase.

Other than that good job my man!


----------



## Blakus (Jun 16, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words :D 
I will admit that this mockup was a rather quick job. The legatos definitely lag a bit, and when you hear desks soloed they are a little sloppy. I think I just did a single pass on my keyboard live with most of the tracks.

Sorry for getting a little off topic. Back to the FC's. 

I love Andrew's comment!!


> But in the end it's just a tool. At the end of the day... you still need be a good carpenter to make a good chair.


----------

