# How to build a cue on a temp track - Dos & Donts



## aeneas (Aug 19, 2007)

I have no experience on this, so I invite everyone more knowledgeable than me (i.e. - simply everybody  ) to share some tricks. How do you people deal with it? How do you stay as close as possible to a temp track, while keeping yourself as far as possible from the plagiarism threat? I can imagine a few possibilities:

1. Trying to understand what is the thing in the temp track that the film makers really wants? - Is it the groove? Is it the sweet romantic melody? Is it the pompous brass pack? What exactly is it? Find out, then build something different around that thingy.

2. Changing some notes and chords here and there. (hmmm...)

3. Changing the orchestration.

4. Adding some musical hits to the picture.

5. Changing the tempo. (?!?)

6. Disregarding the film maker's wish, coming up with something different, and then convincing him/her that your cue serves the movie better. 

7. ...

...


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## José Herring (Aug 19, 2007)

First it helps to know the law. As far as I know "composition" in terms of the law is melody and harmony. So if you rip that you're in real trouble. Second the law isn't absolute so if it's recognized as something that's under copyright you still may be in trouble. (please somebody more knowledgeable than me on this chime in>)

Here's my rule of thumb(s):

Can't put a copyright on orchestration. There's only so many instruments so rip away.

Can't put a copyright on form so rip that from the temp track too.

Can't put a copyright on tempo so rip it good.

But most importantly remember that usually they temp with what they feel and the specific music isn't as important to them as the actual feel of the music. So try to understand why they picked the music that they did. Sometimes the answers will be as silly as they thought one drum sounded pretty cool to picture. But usually more general as they just think it's the right mood.

But above all nothing is worse than just copying the temp track with little understanding of what you're doing. I've never done that so if you want to do that I'd suggest calling Tyler Bates for a few pointers.

Jose


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## Patrick de Caumette (Aug 19, 2007)

Here's a safe tip :D 

Load the audio file of the temp piece in your sequencer (it can be a low res mp3, audio quality doesn't really matter)
Use whatever tempo tool you have in your sequencer to map out the exact flow of the temp track, measure by measure so that when you come up with your original lines, the flow of your piece will exactly match the flow of the temp.
The film has probably been edited already so the cool thing is that with this method your music will fall exactly on the edits.

It's a small tip but it goes a long way to channel your music in the right direction without stealing any line...etc
The other added benefit, in the event that the temp is a great performance ( :mrgreen: ) is that you now have a wonderfully dynamic groove to your piece.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 20, 2007)

I would think the most important thing to know would be what they would improve about the temp track. What mood does it miss? Where is it weak? That gives you a chance to do better than the temp, rather than just try to match it.


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## nikolas (Aug 20, 2007)

I would assume that the temp track is... temp because the "mood", or "aesthetics" are good there. 

BTW, as far as I know, chord progression is not copyrighted either. You could actually steal 90% of the thing, change the melody and be ok. (No idea if this would work, or if it's true, but indeed tempo, beats, chord progression ARE non copyrighted elements... Orchestration as well).


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## SvK (Aug 20, 2007)

Look you simply go for "the feel" of the track........

You don't need to take the exact chord progression etc........


Just go for the same feel......

SvK


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 20, 2007)

Great advice so far, guys! Another thing I've noticed is that it can be very rewarding to pay attention to the SOUND. Not everyone, but some directors/producers are very conscious of the sound of a piece, or of individual sounds. So make sure that you've taken enough time to make/find similar colours (be it guitar, strings, synths, drums, etc).


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 20, 2007)

JonFairhurst @ 20/8/2007 said:


> Never assume. The director might feel that it was perfect, or not. Ask. Otherwise, you might be copying the aspect that the director liked least.



*Excellent* advice! I've made this mistake too many times to count... >8o :oops: :lol:


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## aeneas (Aug 22, 2007)

josejherring @ Sun 19 Aug said:


> Can't put a copyright on orchestration. There's only so many instruments so rip away.
> 
> Can't put a copyright on form so rip that from the temp track too.
> 
> Can't put a copyright on tempo so rip it good.





nikolas @ Mon 20 Aug said:


> chord progression is not copyrighted either.


I'm confused. So, all of the above: orchestration, form, tempo, chord progressions - can't be copyrighted. Also, AFAIK, rhythm patterns and dynamics can't be copyrighted either. Then, besides melody, what is copyrighted? and what is melody? I mean, some scores don't seem to have a melody, or, melody can be any of the score's instrumental lines.

It seems to me that one can copy the temp track exactly as it is, minus the melody (whatever that might mean). Am I correct about that? I wouldn't think so, something surely escapes me and I don't know what. What am I missing?


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## José Herring (Aug 22, 2007)

Chord progressions can be copyrighted. When they check for copyright infringement they check chord progression and melody. If it matches (in the old days it had to match for about 2 bars) more than a certain percent then you could be sued. I've forgotten what the percent was but there's a whole system for figuring this out.


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## José Herring (Aug 23, 2007)

Chords with melody in succession I should have said.


(o)


edit: Not to long ago Synthetic posted a piece. He studied a well know concert work and came up with something based on it that sounded very recognizable but since he studied it completely he was able to come up with something original.

I think that's a good lesson in how to duplicate a temp track.

Jose


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## Dave Connor (Aug 23, 2007)

The temp track will often step on the dialogue so you will score some points by making sure your cue doesn't. Generally you will find that you need to add or take away an element in the temp. Also if you have a theme you're supposed use then you cop the temp's style but use your theme. 

It can be rather painful to one's artistic soul because sometimes they basically want the temp exactly and you are simply legally changing it. It takes a bit of skill to do this but you're not hearing anything you or your composer authored in the end.


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## groove (Aug 23, 2007)

this is a very interesting topic !

as far as my experience goes, the "sound like" parmeters is enought to sue you but only if this is a very known cue or song (i remember James Brown won because of that, and i guess if you comme to close to Star wars you'r in trouble) but we all agree that a lot of medium importance score sound alike ! so as long as a guy doesn't lose money because of you it might be ok...(not a roule thought)

then about temp track i'd say that if you come with an intersesting score that really feet the movie from begining to end, then in most of the cases no one will bother you about not having coping the temps track exept if they really and only wanted that cue, so then they should by the rights and you loose a job ! it happens sometimes...

i'd say : always trust that you'll find a better idea than what the temp track for this particular movie, even if the temp track is from an amazing composer, we are not comparing skils of composing but trying to find the personality of the music for one single movie.

my two cents


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## Mike Greene (Aug 23, 2007)

There are no written guidelines for what exactly constitutes copyright infringement. There is no "percentage" rule. There is no "number of bars" or "number of notes" rule.

There aren't even rules saying, "You can't copyright a beat." Ask East West and BT about that one, although they won't talk. (EW, BT and Phizer got sued by some band over a beat used in a commercial that came from a BT sample CD. The case settled, so no case law was actually made, but it's still a scary case.)

It _is_ generally accepted that harmony (chord progressions) are not subject to infringement. So 12 bar blues, I-VIm-IV-V progressions and Ned's Am-G-F examples are all safe.

But back on the _bad news_ side of things, note that Carlos Santana sued (and won!) in a case where he claimed a guitar player in a commercial came too close to his _tone!_ It was won entirely on the basis of a temp track presumably being a Santana song and the composer coming too close in matching guitar tone, even though melodically and harmonically (chords) he was OK.

This is the same idea as why commercials will often have the "Celebrity voices impersonated" disclaimer at the end. It's because you're not allowed to mislead an audience into thinking a certain performer was involved in your piece. Albert Brooks recently won a couple million because a voice too similar sounding to his was used for a cartoon character. The character wasn't even supposed to _be_ Albert Brooks. It just _sounded_ too much like him.

Anyway . . . 

The bottom line is a copyright infringement case has merit if you think a judge/jury will listen to the two pieces and think, "Hey, he _did_ steal that song!" Simple as that. That's what it all boils down to, even after the musicologists (that's what the expert witnesses in these cases are called) for both sides have made all they're elaborate melody charts and cited various historical examples.

With all that said, _generally_ a copyright infringement case will be concerned primarily with melody and intent. With temp tracks, we're automatically screwed on the "intent" part. Intent is what Santana relied on in winning his case, it's what sunk Quincy Jones on "The Color Purple" (and countless other composers on films and commercials.) And I myself have been involved in three copyright infringement cases.

So we have to make sure the melody is different enough that we're pretty bullet-proof. And as some extra insurance, here are steps I'll take:

1. Change the key. Technically, we all know this means nothing. But if a case goes to trial where the pieces get played back to back, it will give at least a bit of difference to the sounds.

2. Don't name the cue with any hint of what the temp was. That would amount to a "smoking gun."

3. Find out if the client tried to first license the tune your ripping off. If they did, you're on alert that you're now working in a minefield, since the original song owner will definitely be checking out the commercial (or film) to see how the sound-alike came out. So be _double_ sure the melodies are different.

4. Cover your tracks. Do what you can to get all temp tracks removed from client hard drives. Clients can be pretty stupid (or more politely, _ignorant_) about this. I recently did a soundalike for a commercial and the client put a derivation of the name of the artist we were ripping onto the wall behind the guy lip-synching while they were shooting! I actually had to _explain_ to them why that was a bad idea!

Now, with all this scary stuff, there are a few important things to know that may make you feel a little safer:

1. Nobody sues over small independently made films. There's no money in it. Copyright cases are extremely expensive to bring to court, generally at least $100,000. It's not like auto accident or slip and fall cases. An IP (Intellectual Property) lawyer will be at least $400/hour. Almost all copyright cases that have made it to court have been over commercials, hit songs, then major fims. In that order.

2. Suing is risky for the plaintiff. If someone sues you in a copyright case and _loses,_ the judge can order them to pay your legal expenses (copyright cases are unique in this rule.) So they're not going to want to actually bring a case to court unless they're pretty dog-gone sure they're gonna win. Or if the potential payoff is so big that it's worth the gamble.

So if you're doing a Nike commercial, be extra careful. But if you're scoring a film directed by the guy in town who owns the hardware store and is now pursuing his dream, then don't worry about it.


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## Dave Connor (Aug 23, 2007)

'Don't name the cue with any hint of what the temp was. That would amount to a "smoking gun."'

Is this why a certain production company balked at my "Chariots of Water" piece and insisted I change the title?


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## José Herring (Aug 23, 2007)

Dave Connor @ Thu Aug 23 said:


> 'Don't name the cue with any hint of what the temp was. That would amount to a "smoking gun."'
> 
> Is this why a certain production company balked at my "Chariots of Water" piece and insisted I change the title?



And for God's Sake don't ever put this on your album jacket!!

_"the same language, the same vocabulary, if not the same syntax" as Holst_

That's a stroke of brilliance there.

>8o 


:mrgreen:


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## aeneas (Aug 23, 2007)

josejherring @ Thu 23 Aug said:


> Not to long ago Synthetic posted a piece. He studied a well know concert work and came up with something based on it that sounded very recognizable but since he studied it completely he was able to come up with something original.
> 
> I think that's a good lesson in how to duplicate a temp track.


May I take listen to it? I am always up for a good lesson.


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## Dave Connor (Aug 27, 2007)

As far as mainstream Hollywood, they have legal departments that specifically review scores for any infringement such as coming to close to the temp. I was not asked to change any of the cues I submitted for legal reasons but another orchestrator was. 

Most contracts are written to squarely put the liability on the composer so the production companies are in the clear. I know guys who have had to cough up over a hundred grand out of their own pocket for crossing the line so it does happen.


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## aeneas (Aug 27, 2007)

Dave Connor @ Mon 27 Aug said:


> As far as mainstream Hollywood, they have legal departments that specifically review scores for any infringement such as coming to close to the temp. I was not asked to change any of the cues I submitted for legal reasons but another orchestrator was.
> 
> Most contracts are written to squarely put the liability on the composer so the production companies are in the clear. I know guys who have had to cough up over a hundred grand out of their own pocket for crossing the line so it does happen.


I gather that separate elements (such as chord progressions) cannot be copyrighted as they are, isolated, but the pieces are compared wholly - they should not sound alike. In pop, "sounding alike" is a must. Some film makers seem to think that to sound alike is must in film scoring as well. As I understand, in the ens, it all falls on the composer's judgment call. 

There is no danger that I am in the position to score a Hollywood blockbuster anytime soon, but some tricks for "sounding alike but not too close" would be nice to know... So, knowledgeable people, forget the competition and share some compositional/orchestrational technicalities, please! o/~


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## clarkcontrol (Aug 27, 2007)

AFAIK, you can cop anything except melody and lyrics. Unless you're Hans Zimmer, then you can copy anything you want.

This business of composers getting nailed for making it too close is very interesting. I guess they might have used too much of the same melodic contour, etc.

However I can see where minimalist music is concerned, for example, what constitutes the copyright is subject to interpretation.

EDIT-

I would like to announce that I have just copyrighted the blues and the word "Love."

MMWWWAAHAAAHHAAAAA!

Clark

P.S. Sorry I'm not much help but I couldn't resist. The suggestions listed above seem to be well conceived, though. I personnally welcome temps, as they can explain to me better in sound better than most directors can express in words where things are heading in a general sense. Of course, as stated above ALWAYS ask the director what they like and hate about the temp, then you won't have to worry about mimicking too much (or the wrong things).


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## synthetic (Aug 27, 2007)

aeneas @ Thu Aug 23 said:


> josejherring @ Thu 23 Aug said:
> 
> 
> > Not to long ago Synthetic posted a piece. He studied a well know concert work and came up with something based on it that sounded very recognizable but since he studied it completely he was able to come up with something original.
> ...



Aww, thanks. (I even called it "my rip-off piece")

http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7241


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## aeneas (Aug 27, 2007)

May I rip-off your rip-off, please?... 0oD


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## Dave Connor (Aug 27, 2007)

aeneas @ Mon Aug 27 said:


> some tricks for "sounding alike but not too close" would be nice to know... So, knowledgeable people, forget the competition and share some compositional/orchestrational technicalities, please! o/~



Change the key.

Change the chord progression.

When their melody goes up yours goes down etc.

Use different instruments when they are featured or soloed.

Start and/or end your cue differently.

Accomplish various effects in a different manner such as tremelo strings (try something else if they used trems is my point.) If you do use tremelo strings change the voicing/harmony.

You can see with these techniques that you can actually create a good distance between you and the temp. I approach a temp by determining what element(s) are really working for the picture. If there is a snare pattern than I create one at the same tempo but a little different. If there are major harmonies accented in the brass then I do that but with a different harmonic scheme. The cues I work on usually end up sounding better than the temp because I try to make them more interesting (more sophisticated) through the use of counterpoint and more transient harmonies. That is: a two chord sequence can be made to sound like four chords if the bass is moving stepwise underneath. There's a world of difference between C/E and C/F or C/D. Where you can shine in these things is when you add an element that wasn't there at all in the temp and brings needed originality (which all music begs for whatever the genre.)


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## Lunatique (Sep 1, 2007)

aeneas @ Sun Aug 19 said:


> 6. Disregarding the film maker's wish, coming up with something different, and then convincing him/her that your cue serves the movie better.



I would not recommend doing that unless you have a good relationship with the director and he already trusts you completely. If the director specifically said "These temp tracks are just perfect, except we can't use them--I want you to get as close to them as possible," then that's what you should do. If that kind of request rubs you the wrong way, then don't take on projects where the director is emotionally attached to the temp tracks. 

Some director are actually musicians themselves or know quite a bit about music--some are even composers too. If they've gone through the trouble of finding temp tracks that they feel really sell the emotions of the scenes, then you have to trust that they know what they're talking about. You can pretty much tell which directors are well-versed in music and which ones aren't, as the musician directors will speak to you in your own language, whereas the non-musician directors will use a lot of abstract descriptions instead of talking about usage of composition/arrangement to get certain emotions across.


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