# Do you mentally plan new compositions or do you just improvise ?



## rjay (Feb 19, 2010)

I've been writing music for 20 years and in all that time, all but one piece has been the result of just sitting at my piano waiting for inspiration to strike. When it strikes then I just progress on an almost random basis of trial & error until I arrive at a finished piece

Last year I wrote a piece of music, which turned out to be one of the best things I've written, where I planned the night before what the "shape" of the piece was going to be, what kind of melody, rhythm, etc. It was quite abstract thinking, and I had no specific keys, intervals, etc., in mind but when I went into the studio the next day it virtually wrote itself !

So, do many people here plan their work out in their head before writing a note ? And for those who are formally trained where you taught any techniques for this ??


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Feb 19, 2010)

I give notes on what feelings I want, what instrumentation, what dynamics, etc. I usually jot a chord progression down and a format. Sometimes I figure out a melody, sometimes I improvise it.

Most of my orchestration is somewhat improvised, mainly in strings. Track by track.


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## bryla (Feb 19, 2010)

This past year I have turned away from improvising my way through, and start with organizing things. Building blocks. Of course improvising the melodical material if I have trouble finding my way through to it, but then a lot of the process to me is sketching, laying it out, making lots of notes, before I actually write the first note. 

It has given me lots of mental pleasure to do it this way.


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## rjay (Feb 19, 2010)

Hi Thomas,

Can you give me an idea of what kind of notes you make ? What kind of things do you write down ?


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## bryla (Feb 19, 2010)

I don't have my process streamlined yet, since I'm trying different things to see what fits me, but an example would be:

Write down the melody.
Harmonize it in 2-3 different ways
Write another complimentary melody - either used as a counterline or as a B-theme
Harmonize it.

Find the general tempo - determine the length of the music and calculate how many bars and beats you have to write.

Make a general form trying to hit the length required. It could look like this
Intro - 2 bars
A - 8
A - 8+1(auxillary bar for example)
B - 4
A - A (half thò•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ •Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ •Í   ÅŸ!•Í   ÅŸ"•Í   ÅŸ#•Í   ÅŸ$•Í   ÅŸ%•Í   ÅŸ&•Í   ÅŸ'•Í   ÅŸ(•Í   ÅŸ)•Í   ÅŸ*•Í   ÅŸ+•Í   ÅŸ,•Í   ÅŸ-•Í   ÅŸ.•Í   ÅŸ/•Í   ÅŸ0•Í   ÅŸ1•Í   ÅŸ2•Í   ÅŸ3•Í   ÅŸ4•Í   ÅŸ5•Í   ÅŸ6•Í   ÅŸ7•Í   ÅŸ8•Í   ÅŸ9•Í   ÅŸ:•Í   ÅŸ;•Í   ÅŸ<•Í   ÅŸ=•Í   ÅŸ>•Í   ÅŸ?•Í   ÅŸ@•Í   ÅŸA•Í   ÅŸB•Í   ÅŸC•Í   ÅŸD•Í   ÅŸE•Í   ÅŸF•Í   ÅŸG•Í   ÅŸH•Í   ÅŸI•Í   ÅŸJ•Í   ÅŸK•Í   ÅŸL•Í   ÅŸM•Í   ÅŸN•Í   ÅŸO•Í   ÅŸP•Í   ÅŸQ•Í   ÅŸR•Í   ÅŸS•Í   ÅŸT•Í   ÅŸU•Í   ÅŸV•Í   ÅŸW•Í   ÅŸX•Í   ÅŸY•Í   ÅŸZ•Í   ÅŸ[•Í   ÅŸ\•Í   ÅŸ]•Í   ÅŸ^•Í   ÅŸ_•Í   ÅŸ`•Í   ÅŸa•Í   ÅŸb•Í   ÅŸc•Í   ÅŸd•Í   ÅŸe•Í   ÅŸf•Í   ÅŸg•Í   ÅŸh•Í   ÅŸi•Í   ÅŸj•Í   ÅŸk•Í   ÅŸl•Í   ÅŸm•Í   ÅŸn•Í   ÅŸo•Í   ÅŸp•Í   ÅŸq•Í   ÅŸr•Í   ÅŸs•Í   ÅŸt•Í   ÅŸu•Í   ÅŸv•Í   ÅŸw•Í   ÅŸx•Í   ÅŸy•Í   ÅŸz•Í   ÅŸ{              ò•Í   ÅŸ}•Í   ÅŸ~•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ€•Í   ÅŸ•Í   ÅŸ‚•Í   ÅŸƒ•Í


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## mf (Feb 19, 2010)

Einstein said something along the lines that, in order to succeed at doing anything, you need to: work, play, and keep your mouth shout.

He also said that the secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.

Enough said.


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## rjay (Feb 19, 2010)

Time is a good point. Very little of my work has been done according to deadlines, but when I have had one I get the job done (and usually pretty well). Unfortunately, setting my own deadlines doesn't really work as my brain knows it's not a real deadline ! Real deadlines only come from a third party.


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## gsilbers (Feb 19, 2010)

bryla @ Fri Feb 19 said:


> I don't have my process streamlined yet, since I'm trying different things to see what fits me, but an example would be:
> 
> Write down the melody.
> Harmonize it in 2-3 different ways
> ...



thx for sharing that is very informative. 

so, why not do the same thing on a sequencer from the start? is it that different? 
i do things differently cause im into electronic music so i find your approach (and a lot of composers) interesting.


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## bryla (Feb 19, 2010)

Well the overview is quickly lost if everything is done in the sequencer from the start.

I think of it as an architect - well I do now since you guess made me think about it. First figure out what space you need to fill. Think about the budget, the needs, the wishes of the clients - everything that limits your product and guides your product. Then draw hell of a lot of sketches both as overviews and detailed of rooms. I should probably now become obvious that I don't know how an architect works, but for the sake of analogy - hang on!

Then you make a clay or cardboard model, to give it a 3D figure, to show to clients and get the feel of the product. After that.... it's up to the engineers


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## dcoscina (Feb 19, 2010)

Great topic. I used to improvise until I found a thematic or motivic idea and then worked it out in realtime until I had the basic structure done- then I would play line by line into the DAW. Now, I seem to have difficulties working this way so I just use Sibelius or Finale to work out and develop ideas that are a result of banging away at my Kawai upright downstairs. 

It worked for many composers over the centuries so I don't feel too badly about it.


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## nikolas (Feb 19, 2010)

I was taught 20th century techniques of composition rather extensively, so I have "handy" plenty of techniques and ideas to move further.

Problem is that I usually don't like repeating myself, so I try to come up with new 'core' or 'basic' stuff (new to myself, not unique, or original, etc).

When working on concert hall music, I usually work with pencil and paper, not with the piano. There have been cases of sheer improvisatory input, but I usually start elsewhere:
a form idea
an idea about pitches
philosophical reason
etc

Usually there are 2-3 different things to prompt me into writting. And then I start. 

I used to find that having a form was most useful, since you don't have to really think just go ahead and follow it. But relatively recently, I changed my mind and started blowing my own forms away, for the shake of more "musicality" (in my terms of course). the same goes for any rules I might setup, or pitch patterns, or ideas, or anything like that.

______________

Around this time, I'm trying to compose some preludes for piano, and this time I'm taking the 'normal' route of playing in the piano and trying things out. I'm trying to create something 'safe' for piano players, so I still need to see what comes easy in my hands.

____________________-

Finally loops, drum loops and whatnot, make me work very fast, very efficiently and in all... damn fine! :D

(Very nice thread btw)


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## vicontrolu (Feb 23, 2010)

Still amazes me how to write a melody before the chord progression. I mean, if you get a single melody it doesnt sound like anything until you put the backgorund chords in it. You can harmonize the major scale in such a way it sounds terribly sad and full of tension.

So when you start a tune writing the melody its because you are already hearing the background chords on your mind, arent you?


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 23, 2010)

Interesting topic.

I will often spend a day or 2 just getting the first idea through improvisation until I find a chord, note, anything I will find inspiring. From that point it goes fast, the first note will trigger the 2nd, the 2nd will trigger the 3rd and so on. Then when I'm half way through the piece it is not unusual I start tearing sections apart and remove the weakest links.


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## Pzy-Clone (Feb 23, 2010)

I can ONLY compose mentally, as soon as i enter the virtual world i get lost in technicalities...eqs, curves crossfades and velocities. 
So i really need to know what to do in Cubase or i will very quickly get lost , tormented and agonized.

I used to mentally visualize the parts on either guitar or piano in order to remember them (when no other option were available), but now i just try to lock down on the intent of the theme and the rest takes care oò˜î   ÆzÃ˜î   ÆzÄ˜î   ÆzÅ˜î   ÆzÆ˜î   ÆzÇ˜î   ÆzÈ˜î   ÆzÉ˜ï   ÆzÊ˜ï   ÆzË˜ï   ÆzÌ˜ï   ÆzÍ˜ï   ÆzÎ˜ï   ÆzÏ˜ð   ÆzÐ˜ð   ÆzÑ˜ð   ÆzÒ˜ð   ÆzÓ˜ð   ÆzÔ˜ð   ÆzÕ˜ð   ÆzÖ˜ð   Æz×˜ð   ÆzØ˜ð   ÆzÙ˜ð   ÆzÚ˜ð


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