# What's THE library for epic music?



## kimarnesen (Mar 17, 2018)

And just to specify: I'm looking for tonal, instrumental libraries, not percussion, wooshes, impacts, etc. It can be orchestral.

So, which one is a must?


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## Erick - BVA (Mar 17, 2018)

One of the Metropolis Arks? (or all of them?)


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## Erick - BVA (Mar 17, 2018)

So...If you're not looking for percussion, then the first two Metropolis Arks.


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## Saxer (Mar 17, 2018)

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/ranking-libraries-from-soft-to-epic.68023/


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Mar 17, 2018)

+1 for the Arks. They are brillant.

Audioimperia's Jaeger looks like a great tool for trailer music as well.


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## Parsifal666 (Mar 17, 2018)

I'm not sure there is a be all and end all answer to this question, but there are libraries from Audio Imperia that might just fit yer bill.

I used a lot of synths for what I did (which add up to under a dozen, miserably independent movies), primarily Zebra, HZ, and Sylenth.


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## kimarnesen (Mar 17, 2018)

Sibelius19 said:


> You have to put food on the table. Maybe they're not _only_ composing trailer music.



Epic music is more precise anyway, so changed the title. I'm actually not in it for the money, but for being interested in all kinds of music.


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## Arviwan (Mar 17, 2018)

Metropolis Ark 1 : Powerful ! And man ... those brass !! Those choirs !!!
Metropolis Ark 2 : Beautiful !
Jaeger : very tempting ...
And that's it !


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## Parsifal666 (Mar 17, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> Epic music is more precise anyway, so changed the title. I'm actually not in it for the money, but for being interested in all kinds of music.



Well heck, ain't nothin' wrong with that.


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## Erick - BVA (Mar 17, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> Epic music is more precise anyway, so changed the title. I'm actually not in it for the money, but for being interested in all kinds of music.


I'm in it for the money, and for being interested in all kinds of music  
However, the money part is lacking a bit.


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## Erick - BVA (Mar 17, 2018)

And btw [USER=12091 said:


> @Sibelius19[/USER] ...it's hard for me to NOT like a member with Sibelius in his or her logo, amazing composer.



Haha, and Parsifal contains some of the greatest music ever written (in my humble opinion).


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## Parsifal666 (Mar 17, 2018)

Sibelius19 said:


> Haha, and Parsifal contains some of the greatest music ever written (in my humble opinion).



Pretty obvious I'm mad about that one huh? lol!

But oh yeah, the Wagner operas from Der Ring to Parsifal (and bleeding chunks before) are huge for me.

Sorry, OT again.


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## Tfis (Mar 17, 2018)

If the composition is "epic", a piano does the job.


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## Parsifal666 (Mar 17, 2018)

Tfis said:


> If the composition is "epic", a piano does the job.



Look at Jerry (God) Goldsmith...his muted piano for Capricorn One and First Blood is iconic!


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## Farkle (Mar 17, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> And just to specify: I'm looking for tonal, instrumental libraries, not percussion, wooshes, impacts, etc. It can be orchestral.
> 
> So, which one is a must?



I dunno... East West Symphonic Platinum, Plus Stormdrum 2?



Mike


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## KV626 (Mar 17, 2018)

East West CC, Albion One, Komplete Ultimate, Soundiron Choirs, Sylenth and Synthmaster pretty much cover everything I need in the _epic_ area.


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## cadenzajon (Mar 17, 2018)

Tfis said:


> If the composition is "epic", a piano does the job.


-Franz Liszt


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## Mike Fox (Mar 17, 2018)

My personal favorite Epic libraries are Trailer Strings and Trailer Brass. They lack in articulations though, and are very dry (which I love!).

Throw in Strikeforce for good measure, and you're set.


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## kimarnesen (Mar 17, 2018)

procreative said:


> I think that is understating it. I would not say "to some", I would hope it "to most". And death camps do not just mean WWII – Stalin amongst others also used them, perhaps not in such an industrial manner.
> 
> Seeing as this is a composer forum, I am sure John William's score rendered the raw emotion of an albeit slightly fictionalised account of the horrors of Auschwitz (probably not even a 1/10th as horrific as the reality).
> 
> ...



Thanks, as others also have suggested, all of these seems to be just perfect for what I had in mind: Bombastic, as you say  I have so many string libraries so perhaps I can layer some of them to get the same huge sound. And I also have quite a lot of percussion. So how is the brass in Metropolis Ark 1 vs Trailer Brass? 

We as composers have the chance with our music to make a difference in this divided world, by writing music that can connect us and the listener to properties such as compassion, tolerance, charity, and love. Thankfully, most musicians and composers I know are very gracious people.


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## Greg (Mar 17, 2018)

THE library for epic music is combining all of them at the same time


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## ctsai89 (Mar 17, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> Been there. It's called trying to make money out of something you love, and if trailers keep you writing (and even picking up some inspiring libraries along the way) then there's nothing wrong with it...
> 
> at all.
> 
> ...



I love Sibelius too. Finlandia!! Most epic piece ever


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## robgb (Mar 17, 2018)

Tfis said:


> If the composition is "epic", a piano does the job.


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## Erick - BVA (Mar 17, 2018)

Any library pulled through various effects and manipulations should do it!


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## Replicant (Mar 17, 2018)

Yeah, I think that any orchestral library these days can do "epic" since that's really more a style of composition.

OP said not percussion but honestly, percussion is pretty much and essential aspect of "epic" aside from the chord progressions, ostinatos and choir.

That "Jaegar" or whatever Pacific Rim inspired one by Audio Imperia seems like it's probably really great for epic and trailer stuff.

Great-sounding stuff, but it's obvious they have bad taste in movies =P


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## Ron Kords (Mar 18, 2018)

Metropolis Ark 1 is definitely a good choice though I found myself cornered in the high dynamics few times. You need something with it that coves the softer stuff. Ark 2 probably but I don't have that. I use Albion V a bit.

The spicattos in Ark 3 are awesome. Recorded repetitions...


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## Atarion Music (Mar 18, 2018)

Well dang that's easy, the best library is my personal arsenal. 9tb and counting of extraordinary sounds, techniques as well as unbelievable dynamics. It even has a THUNDER SHEET!! Yes, from the softest harp rr's to the most rambunctious brass. Wanna hear epic brass,strings and woodwinds? Well...You can't until I release something else lol.

HOWEVER! Spitfire Audio's - Albion series,Cinesamples-anything, 8dio's- Majestica, Metropolis Ark 1-2-3. There's lots more but I can only speak for the things I own. I'm sure I missed something but I can't really think of any on the top of my head.

EPIC is what you make it. It could be epic because of how it sways and makes someone feel. And for the inexperienced it could be epic simply because they like the way you slathered a layer of unidentifiable chords all over it........


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## kimarnesen (Mar 18, 2018)

Thanks for all the suggestions. If anyone has both Metropolis Ark 1 and Trailer Brass, I would be interested to hear which one you would prefer when it comes to the brass section alone.

And then I suggest that a discussion about death camps, and who have the right to be offended by that or being offended because someone got offended can continue in another sub-forum.


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## GtrString (Mar 18, 2018)

Epic just means big. Be unique, and go against the grain. Use a lot of small independent libraries and mix it bigger https://www.sageaudio.com/blog/pre-mastering-tips/make-mix-sound-bigger.php


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 18, 2018)

I love using Metropolis Ark - I think I could do a complete sounding dramatic/epic track just with that library. Even though the sound leads itself better to more classically epic orchestral music (Bergersen style) than modern hybrid trailer music - even though it surely would work there as well.
Otherwise Hollywood strings and Brass also sound very good for epic music IMO.
You might also be interested in the Cinesamples 12 horn patch that is included in CinebrassPRO but is also sold in standalone. https://cinesamples.com/product/cinebrass-twelve-horn-ensemble
The MonsterBrass in CinebrassPRO also sounds HUGE (according to the playthrough) - not sold in standalone though unfortunately.


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## Anders Wall (Mar 18, 2018)

EPIC!



Best,
Anders


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## SillyMidOn (Mar 18, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> And just to specify: I'm looking for tonal, instrumental libraries, not percussion, wooshes, impacts, etc. It can be orchestral.
> 
> So, which one is a must?


Keep Forest have some libraries that are aimed quite squarely at the trailer genre:

http://keep-forest.com/index.php

I would like to point out though that to write convincingly in this genre, you do need a bucket load of instruments, and not just of the epic kind.


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## kimarnesen (Mar 18, 2018)

SillyMidOn said:


> Keep Forest have some libraries that are aimed quite squarely at the trailer genre:
> 
> http://keep-forest.com/index.php
> 
> I would like to point out though that to write convincingly in this genre, you do need a bucket load of instruments, and not just of the epic kind.



Thx, I've heard of them and will check it out. I do have an awful lot of libraries, but not so much of the really big sounding ones.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 18, 2018)

btw, if you don't already have Hollywood Brass and strings - you can demo them for a month I since you can subscribe to EW' composer cloud for free for some time. They work very well for epic music IMO.


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 18, 2018)

Sorry guys for my offensive comment, I was completely drunk... Packs of 16 cans of Budweizer were on sale at the corner store. 

But do I miss the time when people were really free.


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## Dr Belasco (Mar 18, 2018)

There is no spoon


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## Shubus (Mar 18, 2018)

People who want to write epic trailers, well more power to them as it is a source of WORK for many people. While I have no interest whatsoever in writing trailers, I like to keep up with what's going on and hope this thread can get back on track--that of helping others.


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## chillbot (Mar 18, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> Sorry guys for my offensive comment, I was completely drunk... Packs of 16 cans of Budweizer were on sale at the corner store.


This gets us right back to the reason why we are all here.

_Drunk musicians poorly attempting to help other musicians.
_
Proud to be a part of it all.


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## RiffWraith (Mar 18, 2018)

AdamAlake said:


> Not familiar with the English language I presume?



Where the hell does that come from? You must have a few in your gut as well. Sheesh.


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 18, 2018)

chillbot said:


> This gets us right back to the reason why we are all here.
> 
> _Drunk musicians poorly attempting to help other musicians.
> _
> Proud to be a part of it all.


Look at the good side of things: drunk musicians buy more sound libraries, and keep the business alive. It's like positive Darwin Awards.


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## will_m (Mar 19, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> Sorry guys for my offensive comment, I was completely drunk... Packs of 16 cans of Budweizer were on sale at the corner store.
> 
> But do I miss the time when people were really free.



You are free though, free to make as many mean comments as you like. Unfortunately everyone else is free to call you out on it.


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## Mike Fox (Mar 19, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions. If anyone has both Metropolis Ark 1 and Trailer Brass, I would be interested to hear which one you would prefer when it comes to the brass section alone.



I have both. They're tough to compare, because not just the sound is different, but also the approach and playability. Ark1 has more articulations, and sounds more conventional. Trailer Brass is pretty limited with with articulations, but packs a mean punch. The "horde" offers some of the most disturbing sustain tones I've ever heard from low end brass. There's also some really cool hybrid stuff in TB. It's a dry library, so you'll have to add your own reverb. Honestly? I thought the brass in Ark3 was actually more comparable to TB.


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## procreative (Mar 20, 2018)

If you have to make a choice, based on bang for buck I would say Metropolis Ark 1. Its got Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussion, Choirs, Piano, Acoustic Drumkit and Electric Guitar and Bass. All playing at the louder end of things.


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## VinRice (Mar 20, 2018)

Metropolis Ark 1 for the Brass and Choirs (the rest of it is a waste of time). All of Metropolis Ark 3.


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## VinRice (Mar 20, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I liked that post because it was so overly offense and out of the line of everything which what I can´t take serious so I gave it a like but not to confirm, allright



It could have been funny in a stand-up routine, in context and with a set-up... in a forum about sample libraries, not so much.


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## VinRice (Mar 20, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> But do I miss the time when people were really free



Even two million years ago living in a cave with 15 other people we had social responsibilities. Of course instead of a forum comment when you upset someone you would get a thighbone uspide your head. I think you are pining for a time when a certain section of society could do whatever they wanted without consequence.


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## Parsifal666 (Mar 20, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> Sorry guys for my offensive comment, I was completely drunk... Packs of 16 cans of Budweizer were on sale at the corner store.
> 
> But do I miss the time when people were really free.



Oh man, let me know when the bottles go on sale...I'm there, dude.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 20, 2018)

VinRice said:


> It could have been funny in a stand-up routine, in context and with a set-up... in a forum about sample libraries, not so much.



Yeah..well, for sure. As I said: Talking and writing to read out messages...man the guy was buzzed..making a comment which I found nonsensical comical but nothing more. Sorry


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 20, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Yeah..well, for sure. As I said: Talking and writing to read out messages...man the guy was buzzed..making a comment which I found nonsensical comical but nothing more. Sorry


People who can't laugh at a nonsensical joke on friday night should be used as human shield in a conflict, for they serve no purpose.


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## Dr Belasco (Mar 20, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> People who can't laugh at a nonsensical joke on friday night should be used as human shield in a conflict, for they serve no purpose.


hahaha! That's good. Used it many times (and worse) myself.


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## RiffWraith (Mar 20, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> People who can't laugh at a nonsensical joke on friday night should be used as human shield in a conflict, for they serve no purpose.



Well, you can count me in as a human shield, and as someone who serves no purpose.

BTW - how many have you had this time?


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## Mike Fox (Mar 20, 2018)

procreative said:


> If you have to make a choice, based on bang for buck I would say Metropolis Ark 1. Its got Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussion, Choirs, Piano, Acoustic Drumkit and Electric Guitar and Bass. All playing at the louder end of things.


I agree. The choir is really the cherry on top, and it's what gives Ark1 the edge over any other "epic" library.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 20, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> People who can't laugh at a nonsensical joke on friday night should be used as human shield in a conflict, for they serve no purpose.


man, it is all fine. I won´t judge you as a person for that quote. You apologized for a reason which is fine. I hope everybody can now move on celebrating more epic music and libraries. Btw: Did I mention it? I think the old epic music by 2 steps from hell is really awesome.


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## procreative (Mar 20, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> People who can't laugh at a nonsensical joke on friday night should be used as human shield in a conflict, for they serve no purpose.



Being "drunk" is not an excuse to be offensive though is it? Maybe you should quit drinking if it stops you from sensible dialogue?

Whats humorous about death camps?

They often say drink brings out people's true natures.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Mar 20, 2018)

Post #3 : Godwin's law.
post #97 : Still there.


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 20, 2018)

Once my son said a joke about this, obviously he had heard at school, and we know how it is among our peers when we were teenagers... I told him, I understand you are trying to be funny, but it's not and I will never ever laugh about jokes on this topic, it's totally tasteless.

In this case I'm sure there was no mean intention, just trying to be funny, but an apology wouldn't hurt and move on.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 20, 2018)

Guy Bacos said:


> Once my son said a joke about this, obviously he had heard at school, and we know how it is among our peers when we were teenagers... I told him, I understand you are trying to be funny, but it's not and I will never ever laugh about jokes on this topic, it's totally tasteless.
> 
> In this case I'm sure there was no mean intention, just trying to be funny, but an apology wouldn't hurt and move on.



completely agreed, Guy.


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 20, 2018)

Dr Belasco said:


> hahaha! That's good. Used it many times (and worse) myself.


You will never be able to beat me on that. I've been a Soul Terrorist on the Internet since 1996. I even was arrested twice in December 2016, and spent Christmas in jail for comments against radical Islam (SJW are always ready to sell you). I still have to serve a hundred hours of community work. Life is good.


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## kimarnesen (Mar 20, 2018)

Here the other day I realized that as I have Albion One I actually have two orchestras recorded in the same hall. So if I layer the new version with the legacy version the sound gets really big. I had not thought of this before but it works perfectly, and I don’t have to worry about different halls, mics and seating. So if I want to add more to it now, it would be some wild brass only, and possibly Trailer brass.


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## RiffWraith (Mar 20, 2018)

There are certain things you do not joke about, when in the company of strangers.

Slavery (Jews, Blacks in the USA, etc) - being one.

Ethnic cleansing, and the annihilation of millions due to religious beliefs - another.

Not to say we cant joke and have a good time at the expense of others - I do that all the time. But there is a line, especially on an internet forum, where you don't really know the person cracking the joke, and vice-versa. Cracking a joke about the slaughter of millions of innocent people - of any ethnicity, religion, race, etc. - liking that post, and having the attitude of "sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me", are reprehensible at best. They do not show an attempt to get a laugh; they show a lack of morals and a lack of respect for fellow human beings... probably due to lack of good parenting.

Nobody's perfect - and that starts with me. But there are those of you who should take a long, hard look in the mirror and decide whether you want to be a positive addition to the human race, or help drag it down.


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## Daniel James (Mar 20, 2018)

I learned today that making jokes about death camps and the such are actually illegal in the UK. The charge was 'gross offence' and was listed as a hate crime.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925

We can have the free speech debate somewhere else on this forum I imagine, but I guess joking about human shields and death camps should be reserved for somewhere you wont cause offence, and not on a public forum for composers....you know, being illegal and all in some countries. Its the mods call though I guess.

I'm all for making jokes about anything so long as its clearly a joke and the context is clearly defined (watch comedians talk about this as they articulate it considerably better) But the context of WHERE a joke is said is very important. If you have your own site and you post your jokes about whatever there, its on the viewer to seek it out then understand the context. If you however told a 'joke' like trailer composers should be put in death camps at a holocaust survivors dinner then I agree that its out of order.

Making those kinds of jokes on a forum for composers from all nations and backgrounds..to composers who clearly love writing in the epic or trailer styles... in a thread about epic music, is just poor context. Its not funny. Its bad comedy, the 'joke' is in bad taste, You are telling it to the people who would be the victims of your jokes scenario.... and then you come across as an asshole. If you could just fuck off that would be awesome.

-DJ


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## kimarnesen (Mar 20, 2018)

I agree with you @Daniel James. It was not at all obvious that is was a joke, and it surely didn't feel like a joke. And I love dark comedy! Think also about the fact that a joke is easier to catch if you see the facial expression or hear the voice of the person. In here it's just black letters on a screen.

However, the post is deleted, probably by the mods, and the author of the post has apologized, so maybe we can accept the apologize and discuss sample libraries


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 20, 2018)

Tu habites à Saint-Hubert?


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 20, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> Tu habites à Saint-Hubert?



St-Bruno


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## kimarnesen (Mar 20, 2018)

Writing a piece as we speak with the text "let us unite to love our neighbor well"


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 20, 2018)

Guy Bacos said:


> St-Bruno


Haha! J'ai passé les 21 premières années de ma vie sur la rue Gardenvale (pas loin de l'ancienne gare, du côté des Promenades)... Cette rue est toujours entourée de champs, telle qu'elle était quand j'étais petit.


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## Lassi Tani (Mar 21, 2018)

THE library for epic music, hmm, I think it's good to have a few different ones in your arsenal to get a bit different sound. I like Metropolis Ark 1 and 3 a lot, because they are beasts, and sound really huge. I'm usually using them with Albion One, when I need a bit softer sound. It's how the instruments were played in Arks, OT was looking for mf-fff dynamics, and that can heard from the sounds. E.g. I just compared Albion One Strings Spic/Stac patch with Ark 1 Strings High Spic, and the difference is big in the higher dynamics. In Ark 1 the player really digs in to the strings to get an edgy fff sound, when in Albion One the strings can be loud, but not as loud as in Ark 1.

Albion One is great of course, and I'm using it a lot, but when I need an extra orchestral punch of epicness, I'm using Ark 1 and Ark 3.

I like Audio Imperia's stuff a lot for effects, and for percussion I'm using Soundiron's Apocalypse Percussion + Rhapsody Orchestral Percussion + Percussion from Arks.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Mar 21, 2018)

VinRice said:


> F*ck yeah! I much prefer sociopaths, people who do bad things and social injustice, oh wait a minute...



There's quite an overlap between sociopathy and the previously named groups.


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## procreative (Mar 21, 2018)

Daniel James said:


> I learned today that making jokes about death camps and the such are actually illegal in the UK. The charge was 'gross offence' and was listed as a hate crime.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925
> 
> ...



As you know in the UK we have a champagne socialist "comedian" called Frankie Boyle, because he is so right on he gets away with stuff that Bernard Manning got lambasted for. His idea of comedy is to take a group like the disabled and poke fun at them.

I dont find any kind of humour directed at someone else's expense funny. Comedy should be about laughing with someone not at them.

Death Camps, Nagasaki, Aboriginees, Black Slavery, Russian Pogroms, Disability, Ethnic Groups...

None of these should be material for comedy.

So if you have the nerve to use them, man up and take the flak on the chin.

Which leads me back to good old Frankie Boyle who whines like a baby when he gets harassed over his shit comedy.


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## Dr Belasco (Mar 21, 2018)

Is farting in public illegal in the UK? If it is, I could be in trouble on my next visit.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Mar 21, 2018)

Things are only illegal if you get caught!


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## Dr Belasco (Mar 21, 2018)

But some of my farts can be EPIC!!!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 21, 2018)

Tfis said:


> If the composition is "epic", a piano does the job.



I read from the beginning of this thread waiting for someone to say that!

Yeah some libraries have a bigger out-of-box sound than others - obviously Metropolis Ark's thick layers are big to start with - but... well, above all it's an attitude, but specifically it's a matter of concerted writing (especially octave and double octave unison).

And big reverb.


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## robgb (Mar 21, 2018)

The Library of Congress, Music collection.


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## KMA (Mar 21, 2018)

Albion 1, Albion 3 and Masse have been useful when I've needed something bigger. I've been meaning to check out the Ark stuff as well.

I wonder if the word "epic" is a little like the word "extraordinary". Is it still epic if everyone's doing it?

(That said, if a paying client wanted it, I'd happily say yes )


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## Perry (Mar 29, 2018)

robgb said:


>



Yeah! I love the Piano in this Dave is an awesome player.This is probably the best Piano score I liked. I saw the movie and was really impressed. After hearing Dave I wanted to hang it up.


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## Perry (Mar 29, 2018)

Well I do Trailers. I take the music and dialog out and replace it with my Music and sound Design.I use a hodgepodge of library"s.From Orchestral,Synths,Hybrid,Weird noises.I make it interesting.Example Eclipse, Maximo, AlbionOne, Decimator drums,Signal,Electro City,Aphelion, Gas,Cymbal rolls, Wavestation SR, Sinedust. I used these on this Mockup "The Dark Tower" http://suitestudio.webs.com/music. Still practicing


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## Perry (Mar 29, 2018)

Greg said:


> THE library for epic music is combining all of them at the same time


I agree I just posted a message about trailers


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## IdealSequenceG (Mar 31, 2018)

OT Metropolis Arks 1 + Wavefactory Drum Circle Combo

I feel that the width of the sound is enlarged just by adding a little.


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