# Motu's dp11 is out!



## Garlu (Jul 6, 2021)

Digital Performer | MOTU.com


Get inspired, then refine your mix — all in a singular workflow. Digital Performer 11 delivers inspirational features devised to ignite your creative muse, combined with state-of-the-art studio production technologies engineered for the most demanding, world-class recording and production...




motu.com





_DP version 11 delivers exciting new features like Nanosampler 2.0, Retrospective Audio Record, Articulation Maps and MPE Support, plus dozens of workflow enhancements requested by DP users._

Excited..!!! 

Expression maps...!!! Count me in...!!!


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## Markrs (Jul 6, 2021)

"DP11 is fully qualified for macOS Big Sur (11.x)
and the latest generation Apple silicon Macs. No
Rosetta required. Optimized for native multi-core
performance, DP’s audio engine prioritizes audio
threads on high-speed cores and reserves CPU
bandwidth for critical, time-sensitive processing."

Native support for Apple silicon Macs is a big with for DP11


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## Garlu (Jul 6, 2021)

@babylonwaves , I think we need an adapted version of your maps!  
Already purchased them in logic, and Cubase, but, this means another set of expression maps for DP!


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## babylonwaves (Jul 6, 2021)

Garlu said:


> I think we need an adapted version of your maps!


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## nightjar (Jul 6, 2021)

NKS Support!


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## kgdrum (Jul 6, 2021)

I started another thread praising MOTU for their great customer service,that’s often overlooked………
I’m not someone who rushes to upgrade software when it’s 1st released,I usually wait a bit.
Case in point I upgraded to DP10 on Wednesday and MOTU just released DP11 today! lol
So I called MOTU and the always friendly and helpful customer service representative Tina @MOTU informed me that anyone who upgraded to DP1O since March gets a free DP11 upgrade!
So a thanks to everyone @MOTU & the lovely Tina 😘 (who I’ve already proposed marriage 😱) for automatically doing the right thing for customers.

*edit* about 45 minutes later, my DP11 upgrade is already available!
As always I will wait for at least a couple of updates before moving to DP11,hopefully it will be at least a few weeks before DP12 drops,lol 😂


👍


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## dylanmixer (Jul 6, 2021)

Is it still a train wreck on PC?


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## synergy543 (Jul 6, 2021)

Does articulation selection work with VEP? Or do the libraries need to be hosted in DP to use the articulations feature?


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## AEF (Jul 6, 2021)

Oh wow! Exactly what I said I needed! Very very awesome!


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## dcoscina (Jul 6, 2021)

I'd be willing to give it a try again.


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## AEF (Jul 6, 2021)

Been playing around with it since I saw the email.

The responsiveness of the GUI is FANTASTIC compared to 10. Its very very fast. Loading VIs is very fast.

The articulation system is extremely well done and straight forward. Looking good so far!


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## Toecutter (Jul 6, 2021)

hey @pinki I think you are going to like this one! Hopefully they fixed the freeze issue when assigning notes to "playback only" status?


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## Toecutter (Jul 6, 2021)

AEF said:


> Been playing around with it since I saw the email.
> 
> The responsiveness of the GUI is FANTASTIC compared to 10. Its very very fast. Loading VIs is very fast.
> 
> The articulation system is extremely well done and straight forward. Looking good so far!


Win or Mac?


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## gives19 (Jul 6, 2021)

Still on 9 for that reason that 10 was not really that interesting. But this looks promising.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 6, 2021)

Some of my questions I have about the new articulation mapper:

Can you have chords with different articulations assigned to different notes of the chord? The articulation lanes appear to look similar as Cubase _direction_ type expression maps. Other places in the manual it says its possible to select specific notes and assign articulations to them. So I'd like some clarity on that...what happens when you use the articulation lanes to program articulations...what happens when you select notes and do it?


Can you assign more than one articulation to a note at a time?


Is DP being solid with regards to making sure keyswitches always play before the notes they are intended to articulate?


When re-channelizing notes on a per articulation basis...will other expression data from the track such as CC, Pitchbend and Aftertouch also be channelized properly along with the notes?


Is articulation tagging shown in the event list or any other place like that?


have any of the built in midi plugins been updated related to articulation management?


sadly we see nothing related to articulation latency adjustment that everyone has to deal with in some libraries...so I am wondering what could be done in that regard somehow, but probably nothing. I wish they would have thought of that, they would have leap frogged everyone else in articulation management if so. Maybe next time....


Is the articulation Map saved in a file format that can be edited, imported, keeping saved outside of the DP project in some way?


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## AEF (Jul 6, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Win or Mac?


Mac. Feels very very light on its feet so far.

Only issue I'm having which was a holdover from 10 is a latency when playing my Elektron gear via the Overbridge VST. There's a latency on recording (but never on playback).


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## pinki (Jul 6, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> hey @pinki I think you are going to like this one! Hopefully they fixed the freeze issue when assigning notes to "playback only" status?


Hey there Toecutter!

Do you know, I'm actually feeling a mixture of sadness and anger.

I've waited_ twenty years_ for them to do ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to Quickscribe. It's sat there for 20 years, bug-ridden and utterly abandoned.

And now, and now,... because lets face it... *Studio One*....now, they get off their fat lazy arses and DO SOMETHING.
Sorry, but man it's too little too late. My heart already is broken. (like DP 10)
And make no mistake, there will be no updates for at least a year once they've pushed this one limping out of the door.


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## pinki (Jul 6, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> I started another thread praising MOTU for their great customer service,that’s often overlooked………
> I’m not someone who rushes to upgrade software when it’s 1st released,I usually wait a bit.
> Case in point I upgraded to DP10 on Wednesday and MOTU just released DP11 today! lol
> So I called MOTU and the always friendly and helpful customer service representative Tina @MOTU informed me that anyone who upgraded to DP1O since March gets a free DP11 upgrade!
> ...


Yeh great customer service that don't fix bugs but release a new version instead. Good luck.


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## Rubens Tubenchlak (Jul 6, 2021)

babylonwaves said:


>


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## dcoscina (Jul 6, 2021)

I was an ardent DP user for the better part of 10 years. Scored all my media projects with it and it was fantastic. Trying out the new DP11 demo (there is a demo option once you boot up for the first time after downloading), It's not widely advertised which is odd.


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## pinki (Jul 6, 2021)

I was ardent too....and then came DP10.
Do you know the last time Mach Five 3 was updated? 2013.


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## kgdrum (Jul 6, 2021)

pinki said:


> I was ardent too....and then came DP10.
> Do you know the last time Mach Five 3 was updated? 2015


Why would you expect Mach V to be updated?
UVI and MOTU obviously are not collaborating with each other anymore & haven’t been for years. I’d imagine UVI has control of the MACH V code and would be in the developer responsible for any possibility of Mach V being updated.
Falcon is the way to go in this case,there was a somewhat generous crossgrade for DP users and all of the Mach V instruments load into Falcon.
Falcon is a wonderful continuation of what Mach V was.
I’m guessing you’re not a glass 1/2 🥃 full kind of person?


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 6, 2021)

I'd still consider going back just for chunks. I'm playing with DP11 demo right now. So far, not too impressed with the ArticulationMapper, but still figuring it out. Seems like they missed some important details, but we'll see. its better then nothing, which is what they had before.

One nice thing, the Articulation Mapper files are saved in JSON for easy editing in a text editor and sharing...

for one thing they completely left out the ability to re-channelize notes based on their articulation assignment. This is kind of a deal breaker for me, MOTU missed the mark on this feature entirely. For $195 upgrade fee they will need to improve it to get me to bite.

Ironically they have some feature that can do something based on the midi channel of the recorded notes...which seems useless to me...


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## kgdrum (Jul 6, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> I'd still consider going back just for chunks. I'm playing with DP11 demo right now. So far, not too impressed with the ArticulationMapper, but still figuring it out. Seems like they missed some important details, but we'll see. its better then nothing, which is what they had before.
> 
> One nice thing, the Articulation Mapper files are saved in JSON for easy editing in a text editor and sharing...


I know nothing about articulation mapping but I can presume MOTU will be able to modify and improve the new Articulation mapping in subsequent updates in response to customer feedback………


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 6, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> I know nothing about articulation mapping but I can presume MOTU will be able to tweak and improve the new Articulation mapping in subsequent updates in response to customer feedback.



That is a nice dream that I have rarely if ever seen ANY of the big DAW developers do. But trust me they will get my feedback, but I will not hold my breathe...I have seen too many disappointments with other DP features that people complained for literally decades and were never addressed...they seem to roll out a little new thing and call it done...and I expect about the same this time, maybe in two years we can hope they might improve it, but based on their track record, I'm not going to hold my breathe for anything.

I'm afraid this ArticulationMapper is not enough for me to switch back to DP at this time or pay for the upgrade. We can still dream though...


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## kgdrum (Jul 6, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> That is a nice dream that I have rarely if ever seen ANY of the big DAW developers do. But trust me they will get my feedback, but I will not hold my breathe...I have seen too many disappointments with other DP features that people complained for literally decades and were never addressed...they seem to roll out a little new thing and call it done...and I expect about the same this time, maybe in two years we can hope they might improve it, but based on their track record, I'm not going to hold my breathe for anything.


It does bug me that they abandoned DP Control,how hard or expensive would it be for MOTU to have someone bring this up to date or create a new control app?
This I find beyond bewildering.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 6, 2021)

Well there are a fair amount of updates in DP. If I were already a devoted DP user, I would update it to v11 without question for whatever improvements they have developed...and even though its rather expensive upgrade. But anyway for me....I own several DAW's, and have ended up moving way from DP primarily because of articulation management...where LogicPro, Cubase and increasingly S1 are providing solid solutions. MOTU did do something for Articulation Mapping and its nice to see that its on their radar, but it also seems like they are still uninformed about some of the articulation management challenges and have provided really a bare minimum support, but hey...existing DP users will love that this is there compared to nothing before...so that's great...but its still not enough for me to move to DP at this time...


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## kgdrum (Jul 6, 2021)

I just bought Logic for the 1st time a couple of weeks ago and upgraded to DP10 a few days ago so I’m eager to explore and learn both.
Fortunately having purchased the DP10 upgrade last week, MOTU gave me DP11 gratis 👍
I like what I see in Logic considering the brief amount of time I have actually spent with it,I still have to get my head wrapped around some of the basic features and the workflow of Logic.
The manual being built into the control app imo is simply brilliant!
I’m intrigued to learn Logic and basically re-learn DP(I haven’t used it consistently for quite a while).
The small fonts and lack of any articulation mapping for in DP were two of the biggest glaring issues for me,so these enhancements might really help DP work for me.
Fun times ahead……..


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## pinki (Jul 6, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> Why would you expect Mach V to be updated?
> UVI and MOTU obviously are not collaborating with each other anymore & haven’t been for years. I’d imagine UVI has control of the MACH V code and would be in the developer responsible for any possibility of Mach V being updated.
> Falcon is the way to go in this case,there was a somewhat generous crossgrade for DP users and all of the Mach V instruments load into Falcon.
> Falcon is a wonderful continuation of what Mach V was.
> I’m guessing you’re not a glass 1/2 🥃 full kind of person?


Er you might want to go to Motu's website. Mach Five is very much alive. There's a splash screen too, announcing the 3.2 update. Hilarious.


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## pinki (Jul 6, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> I know nothing about articulation mapping but I can presume MOTU will be able to modify and improve the new Articulation mapping in subsequent updates in response to customer feedback………


They don't do that.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 6, 2021)

I will say this... With the new Articulation Mapper, as flawed as it is...it will be at least possible to use the GUI to make articulation assignments on a note by note basis. Those could be used to send CC switches and filter that through a 3rd party plugin or scripter to do things such as channelizing per articulation or other custom articulation management that their simple mapper doesn't provide now. so....there is that....


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## nolotrippen (Jul 6, 2021)

A large feeling of "meh."


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## kgdrum (Jul 6, 2021)

pinki said:


> Er you might want to go to Motu's website. Mach Five is very much alive. There's a splash screen too, announcing the 3.2 update. Hilarious.


It’s alive,meaning it works but the reality of it is MOTU probably doesn’t have the ability or access to the code to update Mach V much beyond keeping it OS compatible. Even if MOTU wanted to rewrite M5 given the development and subsequent success of Falcon with the available cross-grade,I don’t think it would be cost effective or realistic to expect any developer under these circumstances to be inclined to update a product that was replaced by the developer that created the program several years ago.
I would guess the majority of Mach V users that used and enjoyed M5 took advantage of the cross-grade are already using Falcon. I can’t imagine updating Mach V would be cost effective for MOTU or UVI as the Mach V user base is probably minuscule all these years later.
Given the choice how many people are still going to buy M5 when Falcon is available?


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## pinki (Jul 6, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> It’s alive,meaning it works but the reality of it is MOTU probably doesn’t have the ability or access to the code to update Mach V even if they wanted to and given the development and subsequent success of Falcon with the available cross-grade. I don’t think or expect any developer under these types of circumstances would be inclined to update any product that was replaced by the developer and released such a worthy successor.
> I would guess the majority of Mach V users that used and enjoyed M5 took advantage of the crossgrade. I can’t imagine updating Mach V would be cost effective for MOTU or UVI as the Mach V user base is probably minuscule several years later.
> Given the choice how many people are still going to buy M5 when Falcon is available?


But it's still being sold. Motu will redirect you to Sweetwater where it's available for $459.00
If I'm a new customer I wouldn't know anything about UVI and Falcon and all that. I might buy it and hope that it might get the odd update.
Anyhow I'm derailing the thread, apologies. I'm done with Motu. They were glorious once.


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## gzapper (Jul 6, 2021)

I may risk it, DP updates have been pretty trustworthy.
Articulations, MPE and a few little things are good.
Nothing ground shaking.

Did they fix the consolidated window?

Reports that the GUI are snappier would be amazing, working on a show with 200 cues of 200 tracks with VEP and its really sluggish changing cues.

Putting the nanosampler v2 as the biggest feature on the update isn't really doing it for me, but still.....


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## JohnG (Jul 6, 2021)

Well -- I still like DP and will carry on with it. Looking forward to the UG but might wait just a bit as I'm in the middle of something.


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## musicalweather (Jul 6, 2021)

Oh. My. God. Articulations maps. I'm a twenty-year DP user, and just in the last several months, I've bought both Cubase and Studio One (both at very discounted prices), primarily for their articulation management. Guess I'll need to try out the demo of DP 11 as I'm not keen on updating right now. Will be interesting to see what users say about the new version.


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## AEF (Jul 6, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> I'd still consider going back just for chunks. I'm playing with DP11 demo right now. So far, not too impressed with the ArticulationMapper, but still figuring it out. Seems like they missed some important details, but we'll see. its better then nothing, which is what they had before.
> 
> One nice thing, the Articulation Mapper files are saved in JSON for easy editing in a text editor and sharing...
> 
> ...


Is there a way in which Logic or Cubase or S1 do things differently in terms of articulation management?

I find it easier to set up than Logic or Cubase. The in-clip assignments are great bc they are large, and you can see all of your options without going into a menu (S1 and Logic), or killing your real estate with an automation lane that has twenty articulations in it.

Also, articulations can be applied directly in quickscribe. 
The current DP version is far far snappier and more stable than the unusable on Mac S1 5.3.

Track delay offsets are still a big missing piece for me, but I think it’s a great update. Also, Metagrid made 10.0 freak out, and I’m curious if the implementation is any better now, but haven’t tried it.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 6, 2021)

AEF said:


> Is there a way in which Logic or Cubase or S1 do things differently in terms of articulation management?



Both Logic and Cubase have numerous aspects of articulation management that are missing from what MOTU just put out, yes. I won't elaborate right now as it would be long winded.



AEF said:


> Also, articulations can be applied directly in quickscribe.



Logic and Cubase can do that also. I didn't dig any deeper to find out whether DP is more or less deep then the other two in this regard.


AEF said:


> Track delay offsets are still a big missing piece for me,



yes they could have leap frogged all the other articulation management systems if they had provided that. but they didn't.


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## prodigalson (Jul 6, 2021)

AEF said:


> Track delay offsets are still a big missing piece for me,


Can you clarify this? Are you saying that there's no way to offset track delay in DP??


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 6, 2021)

There is a way to offset the entire track. There is not way to offset on a per articulation basis.


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## prodigalson (Jul 6, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> There is a way to offset the entire track. There is not way to offset on a per articulation basis.


Got it, thanks. Do any DAWs allow for this?


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 6, 2021)

no. that's why I said MOTU had a chance to leapfrog them all. its a common challenge for many people.


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## Toecutter (Jul 6, 2021)

I installed the DP11 trial... I'm so lost... why you have to assign your MIDI controller in a menu named "BUNDLES"? It doesn't make any sense 

The scaling implementation is everything I ever wanted in Cubase! Seems like a simple thing but Cubase is still stuck with the scaling set on Windows instead of letting me zoom in or out like in DP. Well done MOTU!

It's not as snappy as Cubase tho. I tested a project with 500 Kontakt tracks. Cubase feels like butter, DP is laggy af in Windows 10. Does it have GPU acceleration or something else that I'm not aware? I couldn't find any information. I set DP.exe to maximum performance in the Nvidia control panel but that didn't help.

Project file sizes are much smaller in DP11, I liked that a lot. 500 disabled Kontakt tracks in DP = 2MB, while in Cubase it's 42MB. Yep in Cubase the project files can get huge and take some annoying time to save if the project is too complex. One of the reasons I host everything in Vepro.

Quickscribe looks awesome but I need to figure out the lag thing before I can give it a serious try.


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## AEF (Jul 6, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> There is a way to offset the entire track. There is not way to offset on a per articulation basis.


How is this done? Thanks!


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 6, 2021)

The entire track can be offset using the TimeShift built in midi insert plugin


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 6, 2021)

It can also be accomplished by pushing Expert Sleepers Latency Fixer plugin as an FX on the instrument channel.


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## dylanmixer (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> I installed the DP11 trial... I'm so lost... why you have to assign your MIDI controller in a menu named "BUNDLES"? It doesn't make any sense
> 
> The scaling implementation is everything I ever wanted in Cubase! Seems like a simple thing but Cubase is still stuck with the scaling set on Windows instead of letting me zoom in or out like in DP. Well done MOTU!
> 
> ...


Good to know it's still laggy on Windows. I'll be sticking with Cubase then.


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## Garlu (Jul 7, 2021)

@babylonwaves : I think I have good news!!! Expression maps from Cubase work when importing... But: 
- You'll have to bulk import folder by folder and organise it in finder (extensions will become .dpartmap in stead of .expressionmap). 






- For the ones asking for offsets, I think we should ask MOTU about it, since it'd be super powerful to have. They do include a bunch of options like % velocity limit, note length or pitch limit. Why not adding an offset option?  







I don't have a lot of time, but will try to test further soon!


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## Toecutter (Jul 7, 2021)

dylanmixer said:


> Good to know it's still laggy on Windows. I'll be sticking with Cubase then.


Unfortunately DP is a mess on my Windows computer (Ryzen 3950X 128GB). I was getting random crashes doing basic stuff like changing cell focus and other erratic behavior that I'm not being compensated for beta testing for MOTU. It's the same computer that runs heavy projects on Cubase-Pro Tools and never lets me down. At least MOTU offers a 30 day trial so you can test it yourself, maybe you have better luck?

I was really digging DP when it worked, some really cool features for the composer that I could see myself using. I already miss Quickscribe and chunks. But it is what it is, I'll try Studio One later the week though I'm not very optimistic, heard it falls apart with a few hundred tracks... makes me appreciate how reliable Cubase is on Windows, that thing was engineered to take a beating!


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## Rubens Tubenchlak (Jul 7, 2021)

Garlu said:


> @babylonwaves : I think I have good news!!! Expression maps from Cubase work when importing... But:
> - You'll have to bulk import folder by folder and organise it in finder (extensions will become .dpartmap in stead of .expressionmap).
> 
> 
> ...


Garlu, do you know if expression maps are working when the instruments are inside VEP?


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## richhickey (Jul 7, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> for one thing they completely left out the ability to re-channelize notes based on their articulation assignment. This is kind of a deal breaker for me, MOTU missed the mark on this feature entirely. For $195 upgrade fee they will need to improve it to get me to bite.


Hrm, it's documented to be able to do that: 


> "The Channel setting causes the Articulated notes to be redirected to the specified MIDI channel."


And it does work. Make sure you have the output set to channel "Any", else it gets rechannelized.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 7, 2021)

richhickey said:


> Make sure you have the output set to channel "Any", else it gets rechannelized.



I will try that, thanks. 

I will also say that MOTU should have made the midi re-channelization RELATIVE to the source track...not instead of it. Poor design either way, you'll find that out when you start creating large templates... But anyway, I digress...


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 7, 2021)

so as you said, change source track to ANY and then the ArtMap will channelize the notes... however...when adding CC automation to that same source track...those CC events are all sent to midi channel 1 (even though the track is actually configured as ANY) and....of course...CC events are not following the re-channelized events to other midi channels....

so.... still not there IMHO.

And as I said...re-channelization would be far more convenient in the long run if it were relative to the source track so that art maps can easily be reused without having to edit the artmap in some cases.

@richhickey, at least you can use the new articulation lanes and write custom scripts. Just assign some PC value for each articulation in the art map...and then you'll be able to use the cool articulation lanes instead of hard coded PC messages to drive your scripts. So that is something...


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 7, 2021)

Garlu said:


> @babylonwaves : I think I have good news!!! Expression maps from Cubase work when importing...



ok, this is actually pretty cool! It doesn't handle expression map groups though, so its a partial import feature for single-group expression maps and also I guess it would not translate DIRECTION style expression maps...but....its still very cool to have at least that.

Too bad they didn't build in ability to open LogicPro articulation sets, which actuall would have transferred in completely since they also don't support DIRECTION's nor multi-groups... Maybe I'll write a command line script to do that..wouldn't be hard.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 7, 2021)

Garlu said:


> - For the ones asking for offsets, I think we should ask MOTU about it, since it'd be super powerful to have. They do include a bunch of options like % velocity limit, note length or pitch limit. Why not adding an offset option?



Agreed. They missed it. In fairness, all the other DAW's have missed it so far also.


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## Al Maurice (Jul 7, 2021)

Has anyone on Windows managed to get VST3 support working properly?

It's just that many of my VST3 plugins like Zebra 2 don't show up as instruments, but they come up as effects so there's no way to open them; although they do pass in the plugin scan. So I'd be interested to know if this is possible and how.

Also Kontakt as a VST3 is making the UI very flaky in terms of screen redraws and is not working effectively. The VS2 seems fine.

Edit: As I found DP essential operates like a hard disk recorder to stream samples and files to and from the DAW. So once I moved my project files to a separate drive, the glitching decreased and Kontakt as a VST 3 worked fine. It seems you need at least 3 drives to get the best from it, i). SSD with program files; ii). SSD as read only for your sample libraries; and iii). An HD drive at least 7200prm to read and write project files to -- best not to use an SSD as they tend to degrade over time with regular writes to them.

Still will be interested to know how one can coincide other VIs without proper manufacturer information or not properly described as VSTis. And VST2s and VST3 showing up coincidentally


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## babylonwaves (Jul 8, 2021)

Hey @Garlu - thanks for letting us know. I've done some test myself and the imports i've done work fine. Still, I think we've have a "native" DP version to offer, simply because details such as the symbols can be done much better than the simple import can do. That might be important for Quickscribe purposes.

@Rubens Tubenchlak - VEPPRO should work, it works with expression maps on every other platform as well.

In the long run, I guess we'll offer a DP version - so far it looks very promising. I just don't know how soon we'll have it. A part of the reason is that the holiday season is starting here and i'll take some time off in the near future. But this will only delay things.


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## Rubens Tubenchlak (Jul 8, 2021)

babylonwaves said:


> Hey @Garlu - thanks for letting us know. I've done some test myself and the imports i've done work fine. Still, I think we've have a "native" DP version to offer, simply because details such as the symbols can be done much better than the simple import can do. That might be important for Quickscribe purposes.
> 
> @Rubens Tubenchlak - VEPPRO should work, it works with expression maps on every other platform as well.
> 
> In the long run, I guess we'll offer a DP version - so far it looks very promising. I just don't know how soon we'll have it. A part of the reason is that the holiday season is starting here and i'll take some time off in the near future. But this will only delay things.


That’s great news!!! I will be waiting as I believe many DP users.


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## kgdrum (Jul 8, 2021)

@babylonwaves 
You will have a eager captive DP user audience once you release a Native version of this.
Please keep us posted. 👍


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## gnapier (Jul 8, 2021)

@babylonwaves - Count me in! 🙂

Have a restful holiday!


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## Garlu (Jul 8, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> Agreed. They missed it. In fairness, all the other DAW's have missed it so far also.


I wrote them an email yesterday and they replied very kindly saying they'll pass the info on to the developer team. Hopefully, they'll implement that [offset per articulation on the expression maps] on future updates, it'd be amazing!!! Fingers crossed!


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## Mark Schmieder (Jul 9, 2021)

Just bought and installed it late tonight. No problems so far, and fonts are finally not a strain on my tired old eyes -- in list views, at least. Haven't checked yet whether fonts in Tracks Overview can be customized. I think it's just the list views that have scalable fonts.


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## babylonwaves (Jul 10, 2021)

You know what's a really nice detail? When you switch from one Articulation Set to another (or drag a MIDI sequence from one instrument to another) DP matches the articulations available to both sets.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 10, 2021)

babylonwaves said:


> You know what's a really nice detail? When you switch from one Articulation Set to another (or drag a MIDI sequence from one instrument to another) DP matches the articulations available to both sets.


I'm not sure what you mean by that exactly, can you explain that feature a little more?


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## gzapper (Jul 11, 2021)

babylonwaves said:


> You know what's a really nice detail? When you switch from one Articulation Set to another (or drag a MIDI sequence from one instrument to another) DP matches the articulations available to both sets.


Cool, so if you drag a string part with pizz mapped from a spitfire channel to EW or some other library it correctly changes the articulation to pizz in the new library?
That's awesome.


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## babylonwaves (Jul 11, 2021)

gzapper said:


> Cool, so if you drag a string part with pizz mapped from a spitfire channel to EW or some other library it correctly changes the articulation to pizz in the new library?


looks like it  - This is where the unified naming in Art Conductor really pans out.


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## Nathan Padgett (Jul 17, 2021)

Unless I’m missing something, I’m not seeing an articulation maps window that can be docked in one of the sidebars. That seems like an obvious feature to include. In Cubase you have an expression maps window where you can see the available articulations (and their remote triggers) for each track.

Also would be great if the articulation maps window followed the track selection automatically.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 17, 2021)

Nathan Padgett said:


> So far I’m liking this. What is missing for you from articulation maps?



You quoted me in a strange way. The thing you quoted from me was a question to @babylonwaves, which was never answered here so far in any way that I could actually understand. I am still curious what he was trying to explain:



babylonwaves said:


> You know what's a really nice detail? When you switch from one Articulation Set to another (or drag a MIDI sequence from one instrument to another) DP matches the articulations available to both sets.



Anyway, in answer to your question, these are some of the things I would like to see MOTU develop further with their Articulation Maps. What they have done is a great start though...right up there with the other DAW's to date...


When re-channelizing notes per articulation, the CC expressions, PitchBend and aftertouch need to also be channelized to the same midi channels where the notes are going. Right now it is not, rendering that particular feature borderline unusable.


They missed the opportunity to provide a solution for negative delay offsets


Something similar as Cubase expression map "groups", in order to have separate independent articulation lanes...so that for example you have switch between primary articulations in one lane...and switch between mute and unmute in another lane (just one example).


Perhaps adopt PreSonus Sound Variation protocol


Scripting capability to overcome any articulation management limitations.




Nathan Padgett said:


> Unless I’m missing something, I’m not seeing an articulation maps window that can be docked in one the sidebars. That seems like an obvious feature to include. In Cubase you have an expression maps window where you can see the available articulations (and their remote triggers) for each track.



Yea, being able to see the remote triggers for the current track without having to open the articulation map window would be very useful. LogicPro does this in the smart controls panel, for example. Not sure the right solution in DP for this right now. Myself I will definitely be moving to some kind of iPad based remote control solution in the future which should eliminate that problem.


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## Nathan Padgett (Jul 17, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> You quoted me in a strange way. The thing you quoted from me was a question to @babylonwaves, which was never answered here so far in any way that I could actually understand. I am still curious what he was trying to explain:
> 
> 
> Yea, being able to see the remote triggers for the current track without having to open the articulation map window would be very useful. LogicPro does this in the smart controls panel, for example. Not sure the right solution in DP for this right now. Myself I will definitely be moving to some kind of iPad based remote control solution in the future which should eliminate that problem.


Sorry, I’m typing on my iPhone and it gets a little weird sometimes when I’m trying to quote/reply.



I agree an iPad is a great idea. However, it seems like the only way to get dp to send a signal to your iPad running Composer Tools Pro or OSC is to use Midi Device Groups. Unless you have another method?



And MDGs seem kind of cumbersome for this. First you have to create potentially hundreds or thousands of device groups for your template - one for each track. And there isn’t a great way to organize/folderize MDGs either. So you’re just going to have a list of tons of device groups to deal with in the sidebar. Then you need to assign each track to its device group, and you can’t use the handy shortcuts for bulk reassigning the port and channel for midi tracks.



Just doesn’t seem like the best solution.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 17, 2021)

DP has one of the best `OSC` protocols which is what I will be using when I get to that point. Actually I will probably start by just purchasing *Patchboard* and using that. Later on maybe I'll consider doing something more custom, but using `OSC`. 

Sending midi from the Mac to the iPad is not the right approach, not sure what you would be trying to accomplish with that, but yea hundreds of `MDG`'s would be lunacy.


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## Nathan Padgett (Jul 17, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> DP has one of the best `OSC` protocols which is what I will be using when I get to that point. Actually I will probably start by just purchasing *Patchboard* and using that. Later on maybe I'll consider doing something more custom, but using `OSC`.
> 
> Sending midi from the Mac to the iPad is not the right approach, not sure what you would be trying to accomplish with that, but yea hundreds of `MDG`'s would be lunacy.


Composer Tools does just that with the MK recaller


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 17, 2021)

does what?


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## Nathan Padgett (Jul 17, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> does what?


The midi device group set up


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 17, 2021)

for what purpose?

I definitely won't be doing my own remotes that way though, I can say that...


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## Nathan Padgett (Jul 17, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> for what purpose?
> 
> I definitely won't be doing my own remotes that way though, I can say that...


for letting composer tools pro know what layout you want it to change to. 

The other day I looked over the DP manual for OSC control surfaces/devices a little, but not in detail. Does the spec allow for sending/requesting the kind of info from a specific track that would allow you to change articulation pages?

I experimented a little with basic cut and paste commands from TouchOSC, but nothing like what you’re talking about.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 17, 2021)

There is a control surface manual and the OSC protocol is laid out in there.


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## Nathan Padgett (Jul 17, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> There is a control surface manual and the OSC protocol is laid out in there.


Yes that’s what I was reading. It sounded like you can send and receive certain properties from a track. You can request the current state of properties like solo and mute, etc., and then send an OSC command to put the track in the state you want it to be in. Programming it to work in conjunction with an iPad that changes to a different set of articulations based on the track you select would take me a long time to figure out. I wonder if anyone in the forum would have the technical knowledge to tackle that. I’d be willing to pay for it and I’m sure there are others.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 17, 2021)

check out the PatchBoard product for a readymade solution. Aside from that I recommend you follow discussions regarding Open Stage Control, the info is out there. But setting up hundreds of MDG's would not be the way I would do it.


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## Nathan Padgett (Jul 17, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> check out the PatchBoard product for a readymade solution. Aside from that I recommend you follow discussions regarding Open Stage Control, the info is out there. But setting up hundreds of MDG's would not be the way I would do it.


Simple solution would be a dock window showing a given track’s articulations and remote switches right in DP. MOTU could also create a paid app that displays the current track’s articulations and lets you select between them from the iPad.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 17, 2021)

sure. Let's hope they will continue to improve Articulation support.


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## Nathan Padgett (Jul 17, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> sure. Let's hope they will continue to improve Articulation support.


Let’s hope! Good steps though


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## Garlu (Sep 14, 2021)

Garlu said:


> I wrote them an email yesterday and they replied very kindly saying they'll pass the info on to the developer team. Hopefully, they'll implement that [offset per articulation on the expression maps] on future updates, it'd be amazing!!! Fingers crossed!


Offset per articulation has been implemented in the v11.01 update!!!


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## JohnG (Sep 14, 2021)

Garlu said:


> Offset per articulation has been implemented in the v11.01 update!!!


that is super-awesome news. Thanks @Garlu


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## Garlu (Sep 16, 2021)

@babylonwaves . Would it be possible to have your great articulation maps updated with the offsets?Now there is a new "new output" called "delay", in ms.  

This sheet created by David Kudell might be very useful!!


THANK YOU!!!!


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## babylonwaves (Sep 16, 2021)

Garlu said:


> @babylonwaves . Would it be possible to have your great articulation maps updated with the offsets?Now there is a new "new output" called "delay", in ms.


hey Vanessa, I think it would be possible, in theory. What I wonder though is: the sheet is pretty incomplete. Wound't that, in the end, create even more inconsistencies when I implement what's there? I know some people here would happily deal with it, but what's about all those, less advanced, who are just using Art Conductor as is?


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 16, 2021)

I think this is something that is evolving and will become eventually mandatory but it is still evolving. Ideally the library makers would publish the latency values but as of now it’s somewhat subjective as to what they should be and probably not universally agreed upon yet. Seems to me BW would need to test them all out and set those values to their estimation of the best negative delay values to use. If and when we see steinberg, Apple or presonus follow the lead of motu in this area then I think this will become very mandatory.

There are still some technical issues with motu’s first implementation of this and I applaud them for doing it but hope they will work on it some more.


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## kgdrum (Sep 16, 2021)

@Dewdman42 
Hi,
I’m curious if you ever got DP11.01 up and running on your system? If so what was the issue?
I updated to DP11.0 yesterday and held off trying .01 after seeing the problems you and a few other people had with .01 update.
Any progress or developments or opinion with the move to DP11.01 would be most appreciated.
Thanks


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 16, 2021)

Yes I did. First thing, MOTU does not officially support rewire since quite a while. They told me this yesterday. Fine so, I haven't used rewire pretty much ever. 

Unfortunately there are some other apps like Reason and/or Ableton Live that install some rewire drivers automatically when they are launched. There could be other rewire-aware apps which might do this too. 

These drivers end up in `/Library/Application Support/Propellerhead Software/`

DP 11.0 safely ignored those drivers, apparently, but 11.01 for whatever the reason is not ignoring them, even though MOTU tells me that DP has not support rewire for quite some time. 

I deleted that Application Support folder, and then 11.01 starts up fine.

Note that Ableton Live can also be configured with a poorly documented trick using an Options.txt file to tell it not to use Rewire slave out Rewire master modes...which allegedly will prevent it from automatically repopulating that rewire malware into the computer, but I don't know yet whether that will actually work or not. Google around about that. But for now it seems that MOTU should simply make DP ignore rewire bundles if and when they exist, as was the case with 11.0 and is apparently not the case now in 11.01 for some reason...but that is what fixed it for me, removing the rewire drivers.


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## kgdrum (Sep 16, 2021)

@Dewdman42
Thanks I’m glad you got this resolved.
I don’t use rewire but I’ll look for that folder just in case and trash if it’s there.
Otherwise it sounds like the DP11.01 update is a good one. I’m already enjoying the jump from 10.13 to 11.0 so maybe I’ll take the .01 leap.
Thanks


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 16, 2021)

I don't either, I don't think I've ever used it. But I have Ableton Live 10 Lite installed, which I got for free with something, I think maybe my Roli. My understanding is that Ableton Live 10 installs the noted Rewire drivers whenever you launch it.

Ableton Live 11 no longer supports rewire and rewire is considered antequated and unsupported technology.

But the question is why then is DP 11.01 even trying to load the rewire stuff when its there? I still put blame on MOTU here, they should fix that. I have always found Rewire to be a malware annoyance honestly. I have two apps which might be guilty of automatically installing this rewire driver...Ableton Live 10 Lite, which I should probably just remove from my computer. And The Reason plugin, which I could also just as easily remove form my computer..so I might.


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## kgdrum (Sep 16, 2021)

@Dewdman42 

Yeah I have the same Propellerhead Software folder in my application support folder (rewire,Rex,soundbanks)
So to the 🗑 it goes.


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## kgdrum (Sep 16, 2021)

Looking a bit closer in the Application Support folder I see :
Rex Shared.bundle and a Rex shared alias (arrow in the bottom corner)

Should this be trashed or is this something else.


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 16, 2021)

I just trashed the whole propellerhead folder. If I need REX again later I'll figure that out. You could probably just trash the rewire sub folder and that wo ld probably fix DP (knock on wood). 

REX is related to old school beat slicing.


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## kgdrum (Sep 16, 2021)

It’s not a sub folder it’s two rogue icons


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 16, 2021)

ok, well anyway, I don't know, let us know what works for you. I just deleted the entire Propellerhead folder. I'm pretty sure Reason will repopulate it again if I try to launch the reason plugin.


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## kgdrum (Sep 16, 2021)

Thanks I’ll just try trashing the folder and see if there’s any problem updating.
Thanks for the helpful information.


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 16, 2021)

you could compress it first to save it just in case


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## cuttime (Sep 16, 2021)

RE REWIRE: I have never found a reliable way to delete these as running other Applications (Ableton, I'm looking at you) will put them right back. AFAIK, the "options.txt" file no longer works.


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 16, 2021)

its freaking malware as far as I'm concerned. Well anyway, its on MOTU to ignore it.


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## José Herring (Sep 23, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> Yes I did. First thing, MOTU does not officially support rewire since quite a while. They told me this yesterday. Fine so, I haven't used rewire pretty much ever.
> 
> Unfortunately there are some other apps like Reason and/or Ableton Live that install some rewire drivers automatically when they are launched. There could be other rewire-aware apps which might do this too.
> 
> ...


Reason and Ableton have both dropped all Rewire support and the new versions don't have them. So updating to the latest versions of each program should solve your problem.


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 23, 2021)

or better yet, removing them from my system along with all rewire. What I have, Ableton Live Lite 10, is not upgradable without paying, which I don't plan to do.


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 23, 2021)

I just found out that Live Lite 10 can be upgrade for free to Live Lite 11, which should at least eliminate that automatically installation of Rewire malware when launching Live lite...

Hopefully that should end that problem once and for all.


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## danwool (May 1, 2022)

Can you install the trial version of DP11 if you have DP9.52 installed? Asking for a friend....no, really. I *am.*


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