# What's wrong with me? New music leaves me cold, uninspired, bored



## dcoscina (Mar 26, 2009)

Maybe it's just me but 90% of what I hear that is new music from the film or game world is just uninspired, boring, and sometimes sounds bad to my ears. I'm totally willing to except that it's just me but I recently attended a performance of Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet (complete ballet) which I had never heard before in its entirety and I left refreshed, inspired, and elated about music. 

Aside from John Williams' recent music for American Theatre, or hearing something like Hank Mancini's NIGHTWING (1979) finally issued on CD, I'm just not inspired by film music or orchestral music. I do put the same demands on pop or jazz music so that's neither good nor bad IMO but orchestral music, especially in film, has just declined. 

I'm wondering why that is... I know this discussion has been done to death but where once I heard some new score and was inspired creatively myself, I hear nothing of any interest or creativity. I would have to go back to Jonny Greenwood's There Will be Blood as far as how music impacted its film narrative. I recently just got Greenwood's other film score to Bodysong which is also very interesting. 

Just wish there was more out there worth listening to....sigh. :(


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## TheoKrueger (Mar 26, 2009)

I think that the problem is the approach of newer composers. They want to live from music, but they don't care about breathing life into the music they make. Or to say it simplier, they don't care spending more of their time to perfect their music.

"as long as the director likes it, my music is good"
"as long as it sells its good"
"as long as people won't notice the mistakes, its OK, most don't know about music anyway"
"as long as its hearable the production is ok"
"if it sounds like John Williams my music is good"
"if it sounds like Zimmer my music is good"
"i've got a life of my own, I can't spend too much time with music"

Etc etc etc.

Some composers don't love music that much as to care about what they write.

Sensitivity is lost nowadays, it has been sacrificed on the throne of popularity, mass productions and money.

I can think of more reasons why new music sucks but i'll leave it to this point because it saddens me to think that the old times have passed away and the only thing we leave to new generations is commercial crap.

Cheers,
Theo.


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## Niah (Mar 26, 2009)

if you don't like the music of now it's because you are looking in the wrong places

there was plenty of bad music in the past also but fortunately time has cared to erase it from our memories...thank god for that


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## TheoKrueger (Mar 26, 2009)

Yeah i guess my reply was very one-sided... on the positive side there is good new music to listen to, its just a lot less than the commercial music..

Edit: "Always look at the bright side of life"

There's always gonna be good and the bad music. Saving one's attention for the former is probably the best advice 8)


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## billval3 (Mar 26, 2009)

TheoKrueger @ Thu Mar 26 said:


> I think that the problem is the approach of newer composers. They want to live from music, but they don't care about breathing life into the music they make. Or to say it simplier, they don't care spending more of their time to perfect their music.
> 
> "as long as the director likes it, my music is good"
> "as long as it sells its good"
> ...



Maybe the people you're listening to just aren't as talented as you'd like them to be! Or maybe the system is to blame in some ways. But I don't buy this "the new generation just doesn't care like people did in the good old days" argument. I'm sure there are slackers out there, but that's always been true ( a similar statement to the one Niah made above).

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, just wondering if we need to think twice before making assumptions about peoples' motives. :| 

Of course, maybe you have firsthand experience with this kind of attitude that I don't know about.


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## artsoundz (Mar 26, 2009)

"it saddens me to think that the old times have passed away and the only thing we leave to new generations is commercial crap."

I think that's a bit of an overstatement given there is a LOT of great music being written-new and fresh with every bit of musical dignity and evolution found in the past. 

There just happens to be a lot of medicore stuff -probably more than any time in musical history due to midi and technology/communication most likely. It's SO much easier to create mediocrity now and the ratio of producer/directors (on all levels) that really get what great writing is- just hasn't kept up. 

But I'm i agreement with the basic frustration here. Of note,however- I've heard or been exposed to some pretty exciting stuff right here on V.I control. So, I'm not worried about great music ever going away. It's just that the commercial pendulum does seem to be stuck somewhat. 

But again. music seems to be as healthy as ever. I think Keith Jarrett said something to that effect- "Music takes care of itself just fine-it's the people I worryòå   š¬Eå   š¬Få   š¬Gå   š


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## billval3 (Mar 26, 2009)

TheoKrueger @ Thu Mar 26 said:


> billval3 @ Thu Mar 26 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not trying to pick a fight here, just wondering if we need to think twice before making assumptions about peoples' motives. :|
> ...



Well I want to commend you for having such a good attitude in response to my response! 8)


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 26, 2009)

Niah @ 26/3/2009 said:


> if you don't like the music of now it's because you are looking in the wrong places
> 
> there was plenty of bad music in the past also but fortunately time has cared to erase it from our memories...thank god for that



+1000


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## Stevie (Mar 26, 2009)

Do you mean music in general or just filmmusic-wise?
If you mean music in general have a listen at: 

Jazzanova - Another New Day
Jazzanova - No Use
Jazzanova - L.O.V.E. And You & I
Clara Hill - Maybe Now
Beady Belle - Ghosts
Beady Belle - Moderation
Beady Belle - Game
Beady Belle - Goldilocks
Beady Belle - Pillory-Like
Beady Belle - Closer
Beady Belle - When My Anger Starts to Cry 
Beady Belle - Shadow
Beady Belle - Hindsight

Pretty much everything from them is ingenious.
Well, okay, you gotta love the style. But I really advise you to have
a listen! o=< 

Cheers,

Stevie


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## Pzy-Clone (Mar 26, 2009)

uhm....

in general, u know... even bad musicians with no careers bust their balls off, i think its wildly presumptious and unfair to label a entire generation of composers and artists as lazy non caring hacks, just becouse you happen to not find inspiration at the moment. I refer in perticular to the second poster in this thread.

True, music, and filmmusic is taking on a rather simplified twist in some ways, but that does not imply that that people involved are making less of an effort.???

And the idea that someone would get anywhere at all, with the attitide of " i cant spend too much time on music, i have a life"...do you realy think that leads anywhere? Seeing as there are 100.000 people that WOULD be willing to spend the time needed on it, today?

if anything, there are probably alot of more people spending alot of more time on music now, than ever before.
...But we cant all be john Williams or stravinsky u know.

okay, im not offended offcourse, i just thought that was a rahter silly thing to claim.

so there you go. o=<


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## RiffWraith (Mar 26, 2009)

TheoKrueger @ Fri Mar 27 said:


> I think that the problem is the approach of newer composers. They want to live from music, but they don't care about breathing life into the music they make. Or to say it simplier, they don't care spending more of their time to perfect their music.
> 
> "as long as the director likes it, my music is good"
> "as long as it sells its good"
> ...



You make some valid points there.

I feel the problem is twofold:

Years ago (think the hey day of Goldsmith, Williams, even Herrmann, etc), it was not as difficult as now to break into the "scoring for film" game. I am sure it wasn't easy, but I am also absolutely positive it was not nearly as hard as it is today. Today, you have many more composers trying to break in to the business and trying to make a living at doing this - many more than you did back then. This dictates that composers are less apt to take chances, and more apt to go with the tried and proven method(s). There is always an underlying fear that if the director/studio/whoever doesn't like what you have done, they will say, "you are fired - we are going with someone else" instead of "this isn't what we are looking for - go back and try it again". Now, the "go back and try again" IS in fact what happens alot - especially when you have relationships with people, but IMHO, there is still that fear that the powers that be will at any moment pull the job, and give it to someone else. Nowadays, it is that much easier than it used to be to do this and find another willing and competent composer. So, it's the "play it safe game".

The 2nd problem as I see it, is directors/studios are unwilling to accept music from composers that is different, new, fresh, and inspiring. They too want to go with the tried and proven method(s). And when you have a director/producer/exec that falls in love with the temp score - then what happens? Th composer comes up with something that not only fits well - it's fresh and "new sounding". But the director says, "yeah - but, it doesn't sound like the temp score". This happens ALOT. I have seen Acadamy-award nominated composers (no names/films here) get fired because the didn't follow the temp score. Forget about how good their work might have been - it did not sound like the temp score. So what is a composer supposed to do?

So, following Thoe's line of composer thinking, here is my take on the director/producer/studio exec thinking:

"as long as the director (insert 'producer'; insert 'exec') likes it, his music is good"
"as long as it helps the movie to sell, its good"
""as long as it sounds like a Hollywood score, the production is ok"
"if it sounds like John Williams his music is good"
"if it sounds like Zimmer his music is good"

-and on.

And I do not see this trend changing anytime soon.

Cheers.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 26, 2009)

dcoscina @ Thu Mar 26 said:


> Aside from John Williams' recent music for American Theatre, or hearing something like Hank Mancini's NIGHTWING (1979) finally issued on CD:(



Great news! - Great score!

I think you have a lot of guys that aren't that well versed in composition itself so you don't hear the invention and real writing that you would get either listening to the classics or Goldsmith and Williams old-school types. You could say the same perhaps about the depth of Lennon and McCartneys writing compared to a lot of song writing since (where training is not vital.) So it may be an issue of elements that are not there that you anticipate and yet never arrive. Great work is still being done however. It's just you have a lot more folks now creating music that may be out of their depth.


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## mjc (Mar 26, 2009)

How can you say that when there's guys like James Newton Howard and John Powell on the scene!!! :D


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## Hal (Mar 26, 2009)

i see ur problem from *a total different perspective..*
_Ur a composer urself so u listen to the music from a technical point of view_
u dont let urself get inspired u dont let urself feel the music because u cant listen to the music..you are actually analysing it.

am pretty sure this is the way u listen to ur tracks now..
For instance..track one
C,Am,F,G and then u will say "ok i got it where is the chorus lets jump to it.." u listen to the chorus once and then well thats boring next track..

same with soundtracks,with may be everything..

while there is some very boring,cheesy,bad tracks,i beleive in ur situation of almost not liking anything it is your problem of the way u listen to the music,with too much of the expert ears.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 26, 2009)

ajcmuso @ Thu Mar 26 said:


> How can you say that when there's guys like James Newton Howard and John Powell on the scene!!! :D



The poster threw a very wide net including games. Plus the phenomenon of anyone with a computer being able to make some sort of music has indeed flooded the airwaves with a ton of average music. It's just a statistical fact. I didn't indict anyone in particular and said there's still great work being done. (I didn't name any names there either.) I've heard average to very good in game music.

I understand the point of the thread. Visit myspace and click around if you don't think it's true.


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## Hal (Mar 26, 2009)

personally i do not get impressed in only one case..
when i think that i could do much better.
and for most of the recent good sundtracks i cant come close to the sound thats why i am impressed.
there is some action cues in POT that r simply more then impressive for the long sustained action and the big sound,like
"i dont think now is the best time" POT 3
am even impressed from the simplicity and tone of a movie like crash..


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## poseur (May 11, 2009)

it's rough out here.
i'm not complaining, just observing:

there is undeniable (& creatively pointless, imo) pressure
--- from the studios, from directors whose "film educations" seem to have
utterly skipped-over anything whatsoever to do with scoring ---
to deliver whatever bad, clichéed crap is in the temp-score.....
..... which results in a general desire from these folks
for their non "A-list" composers _*not*_ to present any add'l. filmic,
story and/or character viewpoints into the fray;
running scared,
hollywood & the indies, both, seem increasingly 
to be leaving music's importance to film to the 
last minute, to the last .20¢.....
and creative "trust" (vis á vis its composers)
is at a new low:
just like on the internet,
everyone is an "expert" on music,
somehow, so long as they have an opinion.
ha!

this, necessarily i believe, intimidates composers
who're either schooled or un-schooled,
film-savvy or not, adventurous or traditional
with their conceptions.

still, this is general......
i do find scores that i dig, even in the midst
of hollywood's clear (to me) "music crisis".
and..... what's most important to me is not that
others live up to my expectations,
but that i, myself, can wake up in the morning
to affirm that i am absolutely attempting to
do my utmost with the resources available.
but, i've always been more focussed on
gauging the intention, direction & [/b]quality of my own work & direction
than in gauging those of others;
i worry more about me, iow,
as egocentric as that must appear to be.

d


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## madbulk (May 11, 2009)

It's gonna go that way. We're all getting older. I don't even listen to music anymore.


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## poseur (May 11, 2009)

madbulk @ Mon May 11 said:


> It's gonna go that way. We're all getting older. I don't even listen to music anymore.


for real?
that's sad.....
i'm always finding new music that i either enjoy,
or which moves me, or both.....
and, i'm as old as the freaking hills, i think!

d


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## madbulk (May 11, 2009)

Hal @ Thu Mar 26 said:


> am pretty sure this is the way u listen to ur tracks now..
> For instance..track one
> C,Am,F,G and then u will say "ok i got it where is the chorus lets jump to it.." u listen to the chorus once and then well thats boring next track..



The problem is that F chord. Make that a D of some sort, take it up tempo and swing it and I'll listen to that all day long.


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## madbulk (May 11, 2009)

poseur @ Mon May 11 said:


> madbulk @ Mon May 11 said:
> 
> 
> > It's gonna go that way. We're all getting older. I don't even listen to music anymore.
> ...



nah, just hyperbole.


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## poseur (May 11, 2009)

madbulk @ Mon May 11 said:


> poseur @ Mon May 11 said:
> 
> 
> > madbulk @ Mon May 11 said:
> ...


glad to hear that!
d


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## clarkcontrol (May 11, 2009)

2 things I totally agree with here:

1. Time will tell.

The cream will rise after a time and the golden nuggets will shine as the best example of this period in music and we will all say, "man music was great back in 2009."

2. Production costs are dropping like a lead balloon.

Everybody's a professional photographer. 'nuff said.

Clark


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## Lex (May 11, 2009)

Why would anything be wrong with you simply cause your taste in music doesnt match with current trends? Shouldnt our individuality be treasured, and our specific taste valued?

From what you said, sounds like you enjoy and find inspiration in old school film scores, and classical...great, listen to them and be inspired, why would this be a problem? 

I find older music u listed cold, uninspireing and boring...so I dont listen to it...I simply listen to stuff I do like...and from this point of view theres really nothing wrong with either of us, right?

Unless you were implying that the music that leaves you inspired is better and smarter, on general level, then the music that does nothing for you, which of course would be wrong. 

aLex


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## nikolas (May 11, 2009)

dcoscina @ Fri Mar 27 said:


> Also, if you really want to hear a film composer working on all cyliners, listen to James Horner from the '80s and '90s. . .


I know you mentioned he's not the most original guy, but my personal feelings are that he steals teh shite from Prokofiev (and Copland)... Not lending, not making his own, not even referrencing. 

---Sorry for the off topic---


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## Waywyn (May 14, 2009)

Lex @ Mon May 11 said:


> Unless you were implying that the music that leaves you inspired is better and smarter, on general level, then the music that does nothing for you, which of course would be wrong.
> 
> aLex



That reminds me that I was and still am inspired a lot by the band Meshuggah.
Most of you will find this to be a static noise buzz only :D


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 14, 2009)

There's always been crap. It's just that the old crap got filtered by time. So if you wait 20 years, the few scores that are still around, quoted, etc, will seem really great compared to 90% of what's out in 2029. But that's because all that will be left from 2009 are the best 10% of soundtracks. IMO, if you want to stay connected to music of your time, you have to put up with being disappointed 90% of the time. It's the 10% great stuff that makes it worthwhile to me. It's why I'd much rather listen to the latest from Radiohead, Apparat or John Powell than stay in a comfortable, predictable groove (old shoe) by listening to tried and true music from my/our past, even if I have to put up with a lot of crap from the present.

BTW, I think that this 90 % crap, 10 % great ratio can be applied to pretty much every artistic discipline.


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## Waywyn (May 14, 2009)

Lex @ Thu May 14 said:


> Waywyn @ Thu May 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Lex @ Mon May 11 said:
> ...



Now we're talking =o


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## watikutju (May 14, 2009)

> Lex @ Thu May 14, 2009 12:35 pm wrote:
> Waywyn @ Thu May 14, 2009 7:19 am wrote:
> Lex @ Mon May 11, 2009 9:49 pm wrote:
> 
> ...



sounds like you guys need a dose of this....

http://www.texturesband.com/

inspiration and perspiration!!!


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## Waywyn (May 14, 2009)

watikutju @ Thu May 14 said:


> > Lex @ Thu May 14, 2009 12:35 pm wrote:
> > Waywyn @ Thu May 14, 2009 7:19 am wrote:
> > Lex @ Mon May 11, 2009 9:49 pm wrote:
> >
> ...



well, I was more talking this style 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc


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## Niah (May 14, 2009)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Thu May 14 said:


> There's always been crap. It's just that the old crap got filtered by time. So if you wait 20 years, the few scores that are still around, quoted, etc, will seem really great compared to 90% of what's out in 2029. But that's because all that will be left from 2009 are the best 10% of soundtracks. IMO, if you want to stay connected to music of your time, you have to put up with being disappointed 90% of the time. It's the 10% great stuff that makes it worthwhile to me. It's why I'd much rather listen to the latest from Radiohead, Apparat or John Powell than stay in a comfortable, predictable groove (old shoe) by listening to tried and true music from my/our past, even if I have to put up with a lot of crap from the present.
> 
> BTW, I think that this 90 % crap, 10 % great ratio can be applied to pretty much every artistic discipline.



that's so true

And besides I am always out of the loop and behind, so most of the times all I have to do is sit in my corner and voila ... things just come to me like it was meant to be or something like that

I think that coscina mentioned something that he reviews scores for a mag or something so I can understand him, if that is it then he has to listen to alot of crap most of the time now there's a job I wouldn't want to have to do ...

but coscina get some perspective man :mrgreen:


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