# Managing multiple VSTs and articulations in a large template



## TimRideout (Sep 25, 2015)

Hi all,

Does anyone have a simple, elegant cross-DAW solution for managing multiple articulations and keyswitches in a large orchestral template context?

I do composition, orchestration and production using Vienna Ensemble Pro and Reaper or Pro Tools, depending on the situation. I use rather large templates in VEP for orchestral and production work, and have always been annoyed with managing the instruments and articulations during the compositional process. Let me explain:

Let's say I'm recording a cue for a film - I have my VEP template at the ready, and my DAW is plugged in and loaded up. I have instant access to all my sounds. I want to start with a simple orchestral pizzicato riff in the low strings. My go-to sound is, let's say... Symphobia, and in this case it would be the Short articulations.

I select and arm the track ENS STRINGS SHORT [Symphobia] in my DAW and play. But it's a Marcato articulation. So, to get the right articulation dialed in, there are several options:

1- futz around with the keyswitches until maybe I find the right one
2- drill down into my template to the instrument's GUI to see what's going on
3- keep the manual handy

These solutions are all clumsy at best when you think of the scope of the libraries I am using and the sheer number of instruments and KS conventions (8Dio has there own, Symphobia, EWQL etc). If I futz with the switches, I won't really know exactly which one I'm using (not a problem with pizz, but can be with some more subtle articulation differences). If I always have to drill down into my multiple-instance-multiple-host-multiple-Vienna-Project setup, I will be wasting much time. And as far as keep a manual handy, well, try dozens of manuals...

Yes, because of the massive size of my templates, I use Keyswitches. I know there are other preferences, but not for me. Yes, I know Cubase handles expression maps beautifully, but I'm not switching to a third DAW. I know there are some work-arounds in Reaper (including track NOTES, renaming notes on the [non-persisting] MIDI piano roll and some script-hackers that are trying to emulate Cubase-like expression maps) but there are certainly none in Pro Tools, and none that are really great in Reaper

Does anyone have a simple, elegant cross-DAW solution for managing multiple articulations and keyswitches in a large orchestral template context?

Many thanks,
T


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## EastWest Lurker (Sep 25, 2015)

Cross-DAW and simple probably don't belong in the same sentence 

Brian Wherry's software, I think it is called TransMIDIfier, is the only one I can think of.


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## samphony (Sep 25, 2015)

TimRideout said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Does anyone have a simple, elegant cross-DAW solution for managing multiple articulations and keyswitches in a large orchestral template context?
> 
> ...



Hi Tim,

I highly recommend to look into Event channel change. You can assign actions to change between the event channel of selected notes. 

Meaning if you use Kontakt /Play in VEP you would load up to 16 articulations and could change the notes midi channels via an action. If you prefer doing so via the mouse then Blakes' tool might be the right for you http://www.syntheticorchestra.com/articulatereaper/


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## TimRideout (Sep 25, 2015)

Thanks Samphony - the patches I'm using already have the keyswitches and articulations integrated. For example, 8Dio Adagio strings work wonderfully, as do the Symphobia patches. ENS SUSTAINS is a great patch, and has keyswitches defined already. That's enough options for me at present  - I'm just trying to figure how to manage them to better keep the technology out of the way as much as possible...


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## samphony (Sep 25, 2015)

TimRideout said:


> Thanks Samphony - the patches I'm using already have the keyswitches and articulations integrated. For example, 8Dio Adagio strings work wonderfully, as do the Symphobia patches. ENS SUSTAINS is a great patch, and has keyswitches defined already. That's enough options for me at present  - I'm just trying to figure how to manage them to better keep the technology out of the way as much as possible...


Of course go and figure.
I basically like to have as much articulations unified as possible. So I can compose instead of figuring out anything. So legato always on channel 1, spiccato on channel 5 etc without having keyswitch notes in the midi or score editor. I hate keeping track off keyswitch notes


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## tack (Sep 25, 2015)

I'm myself in the process of trying to sort this out. The strategy I was initially looking to take is to unify everything through Spitfire's UACC model, and using TouchOSC on my tablet as an articulation switcher. I'm working on a KSP multiscript that can redirect a key or CC event to the appropriate keyswitch (for non-Spitfire VIs) or CC event.

The wrinkle I've run into now is that I like to be able to layer articulations. With Spitfire instruments using actual keyswitches, this is possible just by pressing multiple keyswitches simultaneously. But with UACC it's not possible -- you just get _one_ articulation.

I'm mulling over solutions to this problem. My first idea was to have my multiscript take the UACC event, redirect it to an actual keyswitch for the Spitfire instruments, and simulate the keyswitches behind held down as long as the sustain pedal is pressed. OTOH, I actually like to switch articulations in the middle of say a long chord, where I'd already be using the sustain pedal.

Other ideas begin to degenerate in kludginess. (Edit: actually, I just discovered what UACC KS actually means, and it solves this problem. Wonderful.)

In your case, if you're content to use actual keyswitches (I just have a 61 key controller so I hesitate to give up an octave for keyswitching), you might get far enough just by unifying all your libraries keyswitches through redirection (e.g. your legato keyswitch is C0, and on channel 1 redirects to G#-1 for library X, but on channel 2 it redirects to A0 for library Y, and on channel 3 it activates channel 21 which is a dedicated legato patch for library Z and blocks the keyswitch from passing through, etc., etc.). I haven't released my multiscript yet so that doesn't help you, but there may already be solutions out there. (I looked, but couldn't find one flexible enough and to handle the sheer volume of rules you'd need to setup for this to work.) And in any case that only works with Kontakt.


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## samphony (Sep 25, 2015)

I've settled on event channel for articulations in logic and reaper.


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## dgburns (Sep 25, 2015)

for my solution I used three ipads(all running lemur) and osculator on mac,mostly for LPX but it works with C8 with a different ipad layout.In LPX I can select the exact track I want remotely,but in C8 I prefer to make visible a grouping of tracks.

for LPX-One ipad is used for selecting tracks by name by using the multipad object (lemur).I've created entries for all my main orchestral tracks in LPX and can select a track remotely from the ipad.This way I can jump around by looking at an array of tracks on the ipad organized by type.One page for each section,woods,brass. etc etc.,and by library.
This setup also allows me to select the appropriate articulation menu on the third ipad with the same button press.I created a page for all instruments in my template that require unique articulation keystrokes.The different libraries are on unique interfaces/tabs.The first ipad can switch these interfaces on the third ipad by using OSC messages and some basic lemur scripting.The pages are basic pads with the articulation names on them so I never need to remember or guess.
There's really no big trick,it's just a combi of using CLIclick and applescript to trigger a mouse click at a specified co-ordinate on the screen to select the desired track in LPX.To make it repeatable,I created screensets to make the desired track(s) visible.I use applescript to both change screenset and then mouseclick,and then change interface on the third ipad by way of an osc message.
what a joy to work with when all setup.But it takes a bit of data inputing in Osculator,as well as grabbing the screen co-ords for the LPX tracks and applying all that to applescripts that get recalled by the lemur buttons.
Of course it means I can't mess around with the track layout or the remote track selection part of it falls down.I've been intrigued by the osculator plugin,as it acts as a OSC bridge to LPX,but so far I can't seem to be able to use it to remotely select tracks by name,which would be the ultimate in nerdism bliss-even though I feel it should work.i don't have time to mess around with that.Maybe when I have a few down days I can dig in a bit more.

(in anticipating the times I would want to turn off track selection,but keep the ability to switch the third ipad to the right artics,I created two presets in Osculator,one which disables the track selection side.So with a button press I can turn on/off that part of the macro.This is usefull if I'm really close to a few tracks and don't need to scroll,but want to select the artics for a few nearby tracks).And this is done with a on/off button on the ipad so I don't have to think about all that,it's all under the hood.
just some thoughts


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## wst3 (Sep 27, 2015)

I was using a combination of tools that let me send key-switches, which were recorded as CC values, and the CC values were then used to trigger articulations where possible, and translated back where not. A mess, but I prefer using CC to switch things within the sequence for a couple reasons - first, it is chaseable, and second, it doesn't make a mess of the piano roll or staff views.

Prior to that I dedicated tracks for keyswitches, that solved the second problem but still wasn't chaseable. I abandoned it more because it created too many tracks<G>!

My first approach was the one articulation per track, and there is a LOT to be said for that, it is dead simple to implement, and pretty darned simple too use. But dang does it bump up the track count!! Whew!

I recently picked up VEPro, and I am still learning, still trying to figure out how I want to use it, but appears (to my naive mind?) that it will solve this problem once and for all. We'll see<G>!


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## EastWest Lurker (Sep 27, 2015)

When you are ready to switch to Mac and Logic Pro, Bill, I will set you up with the SkiSwitcher 2 and VE Pro and you will never look back


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## wst3 (Sep 27, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> When you are ready to switch to Mac and Logic Pro, Bill, I will set you up with the SkiSwitcher 2 and VE Pro and you will never look back


ready, sadly, does not mean financially able<G>... adding a Mac Mini to the studio remains on the list, and certainly I'd love to take another look at Logic, as well as DP. I also want "M" back! But there are other priorities, better monitors is #1 on the hit list, and better converters (in and out) is second. I really (REALLY) need to be able to hear what I'm doing more accurately! Just need a project or two to cover these expenditures... ain't that always the way?


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## samphony (Sep 27, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> When you are ready to switch to Mac and Logic Pro, Bill, I will set you up with the SkiSwitcher 2 and VE Pro and you will never look back


So true!!!


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## TimRideout (Oct 15, 2015)

Thanks for the thoughts Tack - I have resigned myself to using keyswitches for articulations, as I find the weight of the template just grows TOOO much when using one-artic-per-track. if you have 500+ instrument tracks, multiply (many of) those by 5-10 artics and... well you do the math.

So, I find the suggestion of re-routing articulations quite interesting. The problem becomes definitely one of trying to achieve creative transparency - and I think simplifying is always the base scenario. If I can somehow:

1) simplify and homogenize ALL my articulations across ALL (or even MOST) patches and
2) have those articulations visible on-screen

... I think I would be very happy. I know Cubase does the second part very well, but alas I am in Reaper and Pro Tools.

If you have any other suggestions or resources or multi-scripts, let me know 

T



tack said:


> I'm myself in the process of trying to sort this out. The strategy I was initially looking to take is to unify everything through Spitfire's UACC model, and using TouchOSC on my tablet as an articulation switcher. I'm working on a KSP multiscript that can redirect a key or CC event to the appropriate keyswitch (for non-Spitfire VIs) or CC event.
> 
> The wrinkle I've run into now is that I like to be able to layer articulations. With Spitfire instruments using actual keyswitches, this is possible just by pressing multiple keyswitches simultaneously. But with UACC it's not possible -- you just get _one_ articulation.
> 
> ...


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## TimRideout (Oct 15, 2015)

These are all very interesting ideas! Simple and elegant... no... but definitely interesting  Here is another for Reaper (Samphony mentinoed it above): http://www.syntheticorchestra.com/articulatereaper/


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## wpc982 (Oct 15, 2015)

The goal of simplicity is certainly a good one. My approach is, whenever possible, modify all libraries so that the same instrument sound can be found on the same patch number in a bank: flutes, horns, violins, double basses: many different libraries, but each one I know has a piano, poco vibrato, sustain sound in the instrument bank for that instrument in that library as patch number 5. Detache string, mf, is equivalent to tongued, mf, no accent, for woodwinds -- always at patch number 53. Takes a long long time to set up, but then using is extremely fast and easy enough to remember. tremolo? mp? it's at 42 (same as fluttertongue, as appropriate, or I substitute a mp sustain patch where the instrument can't do either a tremolo or a fluttertonge). As much as possible I avoid key switches .. transposing instruments, transposed melodies, restarting in the middle of a sequence: all are messed up by keyswitches and require irritating and illogical fiddling.


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## samphony (Oct 15, 2015)

That's an approach I follow. Legato always on channel one spiccato on channel five etc.


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