# Condenser vs Shotgun Microphone



## PeterBaumann (Dec 10, 2015)

Hi,

I'm looking at buying my first microphone for my home studio, for use with my UR22 interface. I'm considering Rode NT1A, NT2A and NT1000s, but I'm also thinking of getting instead a shotgun mic, most likely the Rode NTG3. 

Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing, particularly if the Rode NTG3 would be as good/significantly worse than the NT2A, for instance? The reason I'm thinking of getting a shotgun rather than the condensers is because I'm starting to do some work on audio editing for student films, and a lot of the issues are simply because the mics they're using are really really bad, so to save a lot of time and effort, I'm considering getting the shotgun mic so that I can record acoustic stuff like cello, violin, and horn when I need, and then for film stuff I can go out and take the mic for those jobs for better dialogue quality. I'd also possibly use if for voice-over work. 

Any thoughts?

Peter


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## d.healey (Dec 10, 2015)

Shotgun mics tend to be condensers, so I'm not too sure how to answer your topic title  Types of microphone are things like condenser, dynamic, ribbon (this refers to how the microphone capsule works). Then you have polar patterns (which is basically the direction the mic picks up sound from), cardioid, Omni etc. A shotgun mic is a very directional microphone (have a look on Wikipedia). For general purpose stuff get yourself a large diaphragm condenser (you'll probably need a phantom power source for it), it will be a good all round mic. I've found that if you ask people what mic should I buy you will get a thousand different opinions, pretty much all mics are "good" even the more affordable ones (although the more expensive ones tend to be more durable, and have better specs). You need to test out a few mics for yourself and a lot of getting a good sound is down to mic position. A good book on the subject is "Mic It!"

Don't use a shotgun mic for instruments, you'll be picking up a very directional sound and will loose a lot of the tone, use an Omni or cardioid, or a mix (but that brings new problems).


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## PeterBaumann (Dec 10, 2015)

Sorry, yeah, the title isn't very clear! I understand that shotgun mics are quite directional, so have to (or at least most of them do) be pointed at the audio source for best quality. I'm more interested to know if anyone on here actually uses shotgun mics for this kind of music recording, so pointing it towards the strings of a violin, would there be any particular issue doing it that way (with a shotgun) rather than something like the NT2A condenser?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 10, 2015)

There's a Sennheiser shotgun mic people traditionally use for voiceover - MKH 70? now I've forgotten - and it's just great for that application. It makes anyone's voice sound big. But it's quite expensive, and it's definitely not what you want for recording instruments. The problem isn't so much the pickup pattern itself, it's just the sound of the mic.

d.healey's answer is very good. I'd add that there are character mics with an opinion and there are flat mics. One isn't better than the other, but I'd personally gravitate toward a flat mic if I only had one.


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## Noam Guterman (Dec 10, 2015)

You need to be more specific in your needs from a microphone. What will you be recording mostly?


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## PeterBaumann (Dec 10, 2015)

Noam Guterman said:


> You need to be more specific in your needs from a microphone. What will you be recording mostly?



Solo instruments like violin and Cello, horn, probably vocals. Orchestral stuff sampled with solo instruments recorded live as I don't have good enough samples basically. From what it sounds, the large diaphragm condensers are going to be my best options I think.


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## Noam Guterman (Dec 10, 2015)

PeterBaumann said:


> Solo instruments like violin and Cello, horn, probably vocals. Orchestral stuff sampled with solo instruments recorded live as I don't have good enough samples basically. From what it sounds, the large diaphragm condensers are going to be my best options I think.


Do you have any estimated budget for this?


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## PeterBaumann (Dec 10, 2015)

Well the NT2A goes for between £200-250 (plus mic stand), so depending on what I go for, my budget is adaptable. Basically, I'm all for buying quality so that I don't have to replace it every other year when it becomes outdated or unusable for whatever I'm doing, which is why I was thinking of forking out a bit more for a shotgun mic, that I could use on sets, for acoustic recordings and V/O, knowing that it costs more, but in the long run, will be more adaptable. If I have to get both in the end, I have to get both, but if I can pay more now for one that can cater for the majority of my needs, I also believe that's better for me to fork out more now and none/not as much later. Chances are it'll be more expensive to buy lots of cheaper things than a one or two more expensive, better quality pieces of hardware.


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## Noam Guterman (Dec 10, 2015)

That's a great attitude. Although from what you've written previously (your uses for the mic) I believe a studio mic will be more of use for you than a shotgun mic. Once again, it all depends on needs. If it's going to be 80% studio instrument recording and 20% field, I would buy a good studio mic and wait for a while with the field mic till you need it more frequently. If it's more like a 50% / 50% scenario, I would buy a studio mic and a shotgun mic, and go for a lower tier on the quality (although not going full-on cheap).
Option A (80%-20% scenario); go with a AKG C214, or alternatively at the same price the Audio Technica AT4040. (research and listen to shootouts and pick the one your ears love the most)
Option B (80%-20% scenario); up the budget a bit, OR (preferably) find a used one that keeps with your budget, and go for a higher tier Neumann TLM 102, or alternatively a Shure KSM 32 (same procedure, do some research / shootouts). Those 2 are real staples of good home recording studios, no-nonsense mics.
Option C (50%-50% scenario); go with with an Audio Technica AT2020 and a Rode NTG 2.
I personally would go with option B, and shortly after start saving up for a higher tier shotgun as well, the NTG 3 (preferably used as well, to shorten the waiting period).
Those are my 2cents anyway..


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## PeterBaumann (Dec 10, 2015)

OK, I'll have a look at those ones you recommended. Would you not recommend the Rode NT2A/NT1A/NT1000? For now then, I'll probably go down the 80:20 scenarios, looking at the non-shotgun mics I think.


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## Noam Guterman (Dec 10, 2015)

In the Rode department, I would go with an NT1, not the A, but the black one, which is a newer model with a revised design, and is a very good overall budget mic. It doesn't suffer from the harsh top end that most cheap condensers have in common.


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## Hannes_F (Dec 10, 2015)

Peter, the 'problem' with shotgun microphones is that they are quite mid forward in order to make the speech more comprehensible. That is not what you typically want from a studio instrument microphone.

That being said I must have some recordings where violin and accordeon have been recorded with sennheiser shotguns (the video team of a live concert did it) and I was quite pleased with the result. So ... it is not typical and most people with a clue would not recommend it - but it is not as bad as one would think. I'll have a look if I can find a demo.


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## PeterBaumann (Dec 10, 2015)

Thanks very much for all your help, this is my first post on here, and you're all very helpful! Hadn't even realised there was an NT1 to be honest, just looking into that now


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## Hannes_F (Dec 10, 2015)

Peter, here is something from that concert:
http://www.strings-on-demand.com/demos/Kreisler_Trunc_Remix3.mp3

This was all before I went into recording myself. The sound guys were holding two Sennheiser shotguns on booms, one on front of the left side of the stage, one on front of the right side, both approx. 3 meters away. For that condition it worked quite well. But under such conditions it is not possible to get a good accordeon sound of course, a russian baian is a monster to record and you need good preamps and converters for that.


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## PeterBaumann (Dec 10, 2015)

Thanks very much for this


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## wst3 (Dec 10, 2015)

microphones are a deep topic, as you've no doubt gathered...

Some rules of thumb that have served me well over the years:

A neutral microphone will work more often than not, but it won't give you "that" sound.
A character microphone will sound great for some small number of things, and ok the rest of the time. Some of them can sound bad, but it's rare.

Patterns - if the spaces where you record sound good then you'll probably be happier with an omnidirectional microphone. They don't misbehave off access, and they can pick the room, which we've sort of decided sounds good. If the spaces do not sound good then you want a cardiod, or maybe even a hyper-cardiod microphone. The so-called shotgun microphones are the next step, they have a very narrow pickup pattern, but most of them get downright wonky (that is a technical term) when you move off axis. Ugly wonky! They have their uses, but recording in a closed space is probably not one of them.

Another thing to keep in mind, as the pattern becomes more directional there is a proximity effect which becomes more pronounced, the net result of which is you get a lot more bass, sometimes more than is actually there. And sometimes (like for Voice-overs) that's exactly what you want. Electro-Voice found a way to mitigate the proximity effect, which can be really strange if you are expecting it. I'd imagine that patent has long since expired, so probably others offer the same trick.

The motor that generates the voltage is important, but it isn't everything. Condensor microphones use a conductive diaphram, sometimes more than one, and depend on changes in distance between the diaphram and a reference plate to generate voltage.These diaphrams are pretty light, and can react quite quickly, so they can be more detailed, or have a more extended high frequency response, than some other designs.

Condenser microphones are often divided further into large and small diaphram classes. Smaller diaphrams can react more quickly - all other things being equal. And they do not suffer from some of the distortions that larger diaphrams can be sensitive to. Most (all?) measurement microphones use very small capsules. That's probably a hint...

Dynamic microphones can be divided between moving magnet and moving ribbon. Ribbon microphones - well designed ones anyway - tend to react even faster than small capsule condensors. The original ribbon designs suffered from being too fragile, and from always having a figure 8 or bi-polar pickup pattern. That can be a real advantage, but you have to think it through.

Moving magnet microphones are the workhorses. They can sound better, on some sources, than any of the others, for a variety of reasons.

If it were me, well when it was me, I put aside a chunk of change and set out to purchase one or two large capsule condenser microphones, two small capsule condenser microphones, and a handful of moving magnet microphones. I had also budgeted for one moving ribbon microphone, but my luck did not hold, and ribbon microphone prices started to soar. And that's what I ended up with.

I also subscribed to your philosophy that I would be better served by a small number of really good microphones than a large number of mediocre models. (and back in the mid 1980s there were not a lot of mediocre models anyway - saved from myself!)

Since then I've slowly added to my microphone locker, and with one exception I've found a use (usually several) for every microphone. That does take the sting out of things!

If I were in your shoes today I'd purchase one large capsule condenser, two small capsule condensers, and two or three dynamics. Can't really name names because microphones that appeal to me may not be your cup of tea. But I do feel comfortable with the basic suggestion of one, two and a few!


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## PeterBaumann (Dec 10, 2015)

Thanks very much for this


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## PeterBaumann (Dec 11, 2015)

Have any of you had any experience with SE3s? I've found a pair of them lying around, and will test them out, but have found very little online!


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