# USB cable shall we ignore the difference



## novaburst (May 14, 2022)

Audioquest Diamond USB A > B (72V DBS) Cable


Audioquest Diamond USB - 72V DBS - In 1982 Sony gave us Perfect sound forever, along with the attitude that, it s just digital, so all CD players sound the same.Audioquest Diamond USB A > B (72V DBS Black) Cable - In 1982 Sony gave us Perfect sound




www.audiodestination.co.uk





USB cables can cost you over £400.00, can they make a difference, is it all in the head or is our imagination running away with us.

I count over 6 USB cables in my setup and using all basic cables, the cables that came with the items on my setup

So the question firstly is would you purchase USB cables even over a £100.00 or have you gone as far as that with your set up I mean you have more than 10 cables right, that can be a very expensive setup.

So the cable can cost more than the audio unit.

Is this a step to far, would you even bother,

Are the basic £2.99. cable good enough 

What if cheap basic USB cables were the course of all our instability on our setup, 

We can use our imagination and run wild with this but what do you think have you taken the USB road yet


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## d.healey (May 14, 2022)

If there is a shielded cable then that can be better. If the cable is for power delivery primarily rather than data then a beefier cable might be better. But no, you shouldn't be spending $400 on a USB cable.


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## novaburst (May 14, 2022)

The USB Cable upgrade is very new to me but was wondering if this has been the norm for anyone 

the link shows another type of cable it is far much cheaper but still far far above of what I would consider to pay for a USB cable.

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/supra-...vCai-XegvAsvKRg_GZtAwC4AcGhxnrhcaArdJEALw_wcB

Is this something we should be considering in our setups/workstations for better reliability and sound.

In the review they talk about missing bits that can be remedied with using this cable but still if you consider your self having more than 5 to 10 USB cables its still a pretty Wight to consider


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## d.healey (May 14, 2022)

novaburst said:


> better reliability and sound


What do you mean by better sound? If you are having audio quality issues then any new cable might help or it could be something else. USB is digital so except for noise (which shielded cables will help against) there isn't much that can go wrong.


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## gamma-ut (May 14, 2022)

I could understand manufacturing quality being a little more important to Thunderbolt or USB-C cables simply because of the higher signal rate - and the effects of interference and reflections in the cable-connector interface. But oldskool USB-A? This is a borderline scam.

I have noticed issues with some really cheap bundled cables that don’t seem to be shielded (though I found one with a choke that didn’t really work properly - I would guess a broken strand inside ra than the shielding being a problem) but for the most part these cables just work.

You’re more likely to encounter issues with the power supply from a hub.


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## d.healey (May 14, 2022)

You might find this video of interest:


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## novaburst (May 14, 2022)

gamma-ut said:


> I could understand manufacturing quality being a little more important to Thunderbolt or USB-C cables simply because of the higher signal rate - and the effects of interference and reflections in the cable-connector interface. But oldskool USB-A? This is a borderline scam.
> 
> I have noticed issues with some really cheap bundled cables that don’t seem to be shielded (though I found one with a choke that didn’t really work properly - I would guess a broken strand inside ra than the shielding being a problem) but for the most part these cables just work.
> 
> You’re more likely to encounter issues with the power supply from a hub.


Yes i think with the C type Cable you can eliminate cable all together if BT is available on that unit.

I'm just wondering if this is ground where we did not discover or realize that it mattered so much. 

Because these high end cables have been around for years, we on the other hand have just not seen them,

With so many high end types of cable around can we really say don't bother,

This is what made me look into it, i purchased a unit and the cable that came with it was to short, so i had a standard printer long cable in its place, yes the unit worked fine no hassle and no real reason to change, until i played the same sound with a different cable, the cable that came with a keyboard controller when i used that cable the sound appeared to be much broader or even different if you like.

Then i did some research and understood that there are indeed different types of USB cable that will make a difference to the sound and quality,

But there does not seem to be a lot of knowledge about this is there such thing as a better digital sound or digital audio with high end cables,

one thing for sure is the high end cables are out there but unknown or not necessary deemed important


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## CSS_SCC (May 14, 2022)

My two cents: the vast majority of the signal path is digital which for all intents and purposes means having a decent quality cable for interconnect but that's about it. I have yet to see anything that would convince me that any of the "miracle" cables are anything else than scams. Please check the video above as it's a very good introduction. For more about the reliability of recording and remembering your own experiences, just have a look at the latest research in brain science and the impact of approximation, confirmation bias and even hourly fluctuation of hormones. Just a short taster:


For professional reasons, I get to meet hundreds of regular people every month either at their homes, either out and about. The quality of the vast majority of the sound systems is abysmal (sound either from the TV, cheap radio/voice assistant or, for the most advanced, a decent sound bar). And, as headphones go, maybe they will have the Airpods and/or a pair of £100-150 closed back Bluetooth headphones. In the last ten years, after visiting thousands of homes, I have seen extemely few decent sound systems, even in multimillion pound homes. Proper 5.1 or Dolby Atmos systems - a handful a year even from households that are in the high income bracket. For most of them the best sound system is the one that comes integrated in the car.


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## d.healey (May 14, 2022)

novaburst said:


> the sound appeared to be much broader or even different if you like.


This is absolutely the worst way to verify any claim about audio quality. We are all easily fooled by our own ears. Many is the time I've been twiddling a knob to get the sound just perfect only to discover later that the knob in question wasn't actually connected to anything.


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## timbit2006 (May 14, 2022)

They're mainly useful to flex.
"You're really planning to record your next album at XXXXXXX studios? I heard they don't even use
Audioquest Diamond USB A > B (72V DBS) Cable "​​To be fair though a good amount of cables being sold are unshielded or have some pins missing; one of the reasons why you should never use dollar store cables with anything but your phone.​


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## Sarah Mancuso (May 14, 2022)

Digital doesn't work that way, at all. It's not transmitting an analog waveform, it's transmitting an encoded digital representation of one, in a format that the cable knows nothing about. If your USB cables were somehow altering the data going through them, everything going through them would just be corrupted and unusable.


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## ryans (May 14, 2022)

Sounds like a total scam to me.


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## LatinXCombo (May 14, 2022)

_Cf. _"You can save _up to fifteen percent or more_ on your car insurance...."


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## novaburst (May 15, 2022)

ryans said:


> Sounds like a total scam to me.





Sarah Mancuso said:


> Digital doesn't work that way, at all. It's not transmitting an analog waveform, it's transmitting an encoded digital representation of one, in a format that the cable knows nothing about. If your USB cables were somehow altering the data going through them, everything going through them would just be corrupted and unusable.





ryans said:


> Sounds like a total scam to me.


All i am saying, has it been explored enough, its easy to say scam when perhaps there is no interest 

And i am sure the all the high end cables out there are not just to scam us, if there is a chance to get better audio better data to enhance your work anything is worth exploring.

I am sure we can all agree this is an area we have not explored so i would rather say its unknown territory, but one thing for sure these high end cables are being used,

Do we know enough about digital, or about cables to give such a definitive answer,

We do know data transmits through gold better than copper or steel but all those metals will transmit data but some are better at doing it than others, insulation plays a big part too,


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## novaburst (May 15, 2022)

CSS_SCC said:


> households that are in the high income bracket. For most of them the best sound system is the one that comes integrated in the car.


Is this a matter of why bother, or is it a matter of this system will do even with the knowledge that there is better out there,

Audio and music is not the very top thing in many lives out there to some as long as they can hear it that's good enough


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## d.healey (May 15, 2022)

novaburst said:


> All i am saying, has it been explored enough, its easy to say scam when perhaps there is no interest


Yes. It has been debunked several times. Did you watch the video I posted?



novaburst said:


> I am sure we can all agree this is an area we have not explored


I don't agree.



novaburst said:


> Do we know enough about digital, or about cables to give such a definitive answer,


Yes.



novaburst said:


> We do know data transmits through gold better than copper


With analogue data this can be important. With digital data it makes no practical difference. Using a gold contact HDMI cable will give you no advantage over a copper one in terms of quality of data transmission. Although, it may increase the longevity of the contacts since gold doesn't oxidise.


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## novaburst (May 15, 2022)

So then the question is why are they there and why do people use them,


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## d.healey (May 15, 2022)

novaburst said:


> So then the question is why are they there and why do people use them,


Same reason homeopathy exists. Or magnet therapy, or Bigfoot conventions, or David Ike.

People believe certain things that aren't true and other people want to take advantage of those beliefs in order to make money.


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## CSS_SCC (May 15, 2022)

novaburst said:


> Is this a matter of why bother, or is it a matter of this system will do even with the knowledge that there is better out there,
> 
> Audio and music is not the very top thing in many lives out there to some as long as they can hear it that's good enough


Please have a look at this (and remember that in this particular video the discussion is about an analog signal path):


The simple conclusion is that yes, it looks prettier, maybe it's a little bit sturdier, but it's the same as the difference between having high gloss airbrushed custom decal gold leaf blah-blah paint on your car and just the standard factory paint. No difference in the real day-to-day performance.

Coming back to my experience in different houses, the only places where I have seen a semblance of care with regards to the setup of the sound system was in home studios for professional producers and mixing engineers. And you will be surprised by the age and the (low) quality of the equipment used.

The only possible conclusion that I can find is that there will be a core group of devotees that will pay anything for that 0.01% of mostly subjective extra performance (as in any industry). The rest of the world couldn't care less. If a professional cello player with 30+ years of international gigs can make do with just his basic bookshelf speakers, an amp and a CD player, I think we can all relax.


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## novaburst (May 15, 2022)

d.healey said:


> Same reason homeopathy exists. Or magnet therapy, or Bigfoot conventions, or David Ike.
> 
> People believe certain things that aren't true and other people want to take advantage of those beliefs in order to make money.


Come on @d.healey to say we are the smart ones they are the not so smart ones isn't conclusive

We just cant say that about people who may be in the know more than us maybe is about measurements on meters, speed, consistency, thing we perhaps don't care about.

any this is all light hearted,


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## novaburst (May 15, 2022)

CSS_SCC said:


> Please have a look at this (and remember that in this particular video the discussion is about an analog signal path):
> 
> 
> The simple conclusion is that yes, it looks prettier, maybe it's a little bit sturdier, but it's the same as the difference between having high gloss airbrushed custom decal gold leaf blah-blah paint on your car and just the standard factory paint. No difference in the real day-to-day performance.
> ...



I can find vids that say the different, this vid cant speak for the world

again all light hearted


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## novaburst (May 15, 2022)

Have you ever considered that cheap basic USB cables could be the big bad wolf on our setup

Or we may not be getting the best performance from our DAC or Audio interface because of USB connection

Just an area that you may or not want to consider

Anyway thanks for your input guys, i think when it comes to setups or even music it becomes a personal journey 

but being open minded can be a good thing too


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## telecode101 (May 15, 2022)

always use the correct cable. there is differences. good luck.



https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/210293725-Choosing-the-Correct-USB-Cable-for-Your-NI-Hardware-Device


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## d.healey (May 15, 2022)

novaburst said:


> to say we are the smart ones they are the not so smart ones


I would never say someone who has a belief in something that isn't true is not smart. I would say they are misinformed. Some of the smartest people who have ever lived believed in things that were totally nonsensical and had no basis in reality, it didn't stop them being clever and intelligent - we all have blind spots.


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## HCMarkus (May 15, 2022)

I occasionally enjoy perusing these reviews of Denon's (discontinued) $9,999.00 1.5 Meter Ethernet cable. I fully expect folks who purchase the Audioquest USB Cable to experience similar results.

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Cable-Version/product-reviews/B000I1X6PM
Here's a sample:



> This cable has direction arrows printed on it to indicate which direction the data must flow. Unfortunately I made the mistake of hooking it up to my Roku player backwards with the arrows pointing towards the router. While I was behind my home theater messing around with the cable my daughter was playing with the remote and accidentally turned on Pandora. "Imagine" by John Lennon started playing. I became mesmerized by the breadth and the clarity of the soundstage. I thought that maybe the cable direction didn't matter. That was until the John Lennon song reached the infamous line "And no religion too".
> 
> I heard a loud thunderclap, the doors of the coat closet in the foyer burst off their hinges. A beam of brilliant white light shone out of the door way. The living room began filling with fog. "Revolution 9" began playing from my stereo. Before I knew it I was gripping my TV stand for dear life as the portal opened creating a massive vacuum. All I do is watch in horror as a being of pure energy energed, morphed into the shape of a giant claw and grabbed my daughter taking her back into the portal. Worse yet my logitech harmony got sucked in as well.


Interestingly, the author of the above resolved the situation by using an Audiquest speaker cable.... check the link for the exciting conclusion!


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## Loïc D (May 15, 2022)

Could these cables enhance the quality of a 128kbps MP3 ?


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## carlc (May 15, 2022)

As an EE who has designed serial interfaces, I can say that the quality of the USB cables matter to a point. They need to meet the USB standards for the speed you want to achieve, have decent AWG, solid construction, and decent shielding. Beyond that, the protocols are robust and can handle most data errors you would encounter. 

There are lots of junk cables that you should avoid, but if you are paying more then $15-20 per cable, you are probably wasting money. This applies to USB, not TB2/3. 

Also, gold contacts are generally not required for office/studio applications. They tend to be used in harsh environments where oxidation and corrosion is common. For example, I would always spec gold contacts for cable connectors on locomotives. There are also special pin geometries for high vibration environments, but again, not needed for office/studio.


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## ryans (May 16, 2022)

novaburst said:


> but being open minded can be a good thing too


*Always a good thing


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## HCMarkus (May 16, 2022)

ryans said:


> *Always a good thing


Actually, not always. Here are a couple of examples off the top of my head:

1. Cat Poop. Shall I smear it on my carpet?

2. Cliff Diving. Who cares how deep the water is?

3. Pianos. Daily exposure to direct sun followed by extreme cold enhance the tone and intonation.

I invite others to expand the list.

PS: I understand the sentiment expressed by Ryans, and strive to be open-minded about many things in life. Pleasant surprises often result. That said, we often gain an understanding of some process or object through personal experience or research that allows us to make decisions that do not have to be revisited. Our time is, after all, limited. Which has me wondering why I am even writing this.

***

Revised version of this post:


ryans said:


> *Always a good thing


No.


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## kitekrazy (May 16, 2022)

I guess if I ever spent that much on a cable I'd swear up and down that is was the best thing ever to justify my foolishness and hopefully to get others to fall for the same thing.


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## method1 (May 16, 2022)

Don't forget to pick up Denon's amazing Ethernet cable, (only $500!) for a purer internet experience or crystal sound if you use an Ethernet interface. 









Denon's $500 Ethernet cable


Denon is selling a "ultra premium" $500 Ethernet cable for the audio sucker, I mean, enthusiast. So why should I drop $500 on a Cat6 cable with high purity copper?




www.cnet.com





The reviews speak for themselves, customers experienced results way beyond expectations!

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Cable-Version/product-reviews/B000I1X6PM


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## HCMarkus (May 16, 2022)

method1 said:


> Don't forget to pick up Denon's amazing Ethernet cable, (only $500!) for a purer internet experience or crystal sound if you use an Ethernet interface.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I totally ninja'd you, dude. (look back a few posts)

Please note that you may be understating the price of these incredible ethernet cables. 


Cowabunga.


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## method1 (May 16, 2022)

HCMarkus said:


> I totally ninja'd you, dude. (look back a few posts)
> 
> Please note that you may be understating the price of these incredible ethernet cables.
> 
> ...



You were able to go back in time and post before me by using the Denon cables! Excellent!


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## HCMarkus (May 16, 2022)

Curses! Foiled again.


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## d.healey (May 16, 2022)

Be open minded, but not so much that your brain falls out.


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## EgM (May 16, 2022)

Why stop at USB? Clean sound starts at the AC cable 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L4XYKD1/ref=as_sl_pc_tf_til?tag=&linkCode=w00&linkId=&creativeASIN=B07L4XYKD1 (Amazon link)

In all seriousness, clean good sound starts with a real power conditioner and reasonable cable. Anything more is just wasting money.


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## novaburst (May 16, 2022)

method1 said:


> Don't forget to pick up Denon's amazing Ethernet cable, (only $500!) for a purer internet experience or crystal sound if you use an Ethernet interface.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think cables vary in price because of the type of cable it is, so not sure if you would find the same cable used in a rocket as the one linking up your basic gear, now if the same company that made and supplied those cables for rockets that fly to the moon or mars started selling to the normal public not sure if the cost will change

This is just an analogy, but for sure the standard would be very high and costly to make cables for rockets


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## ryans (May 17, 2022)

HCMarkus said:


> Actually, not always. Here are a couple of examples off the top of my head:
> 
> 1. Cat Poop. Shall I smear it on my carpet?
> 
> ...


Alright so maybe not "always", sorry, I know, only a Sith deals in absolutes. My bad.

In this context my intent was to justify the OP's question, It's always, er, _sometimes_ good to question stuff.


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## rhizomusicosmos (May 17, 2022)

novaburst said:


> So then the question is why are they there and why do people use them,


These types of cables are lifestyle accoutrements and people buy them because of marketing. As @carlc has said, there is a certain amount you need to spend on a certified cable that is fit for purpose, more than that and you are paying for non-utilitarian aspects that don't improve objective audio quality. Those aspects may make you feel good about yourself or confirm your sense of refined taste. A nice glass of wine while listening to your mix will probably do much the same thing.

Audioquest's claims about their products are not backed up by hard evidence (i.e. something that would stand scientific peer review). Their products also don't seem to display any of the official USB Implementers Forum logos, so I doubt they have even been tested for compliance to the spec.





Compliance | USB-IF







www.usb.org


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