# Non-admin users in Windows - am I the only one? (Izotope)



## DavidY (Mar 9, 2019)

Many years ago, I was told that one should setup Windows with an admin account, but also create a non-admin/ standard account for general use day-to-day. 

I still do this but (in the world of music software at least) I'm wondering if I'm the only one who still uses a standard account. (Contrast with my (non-music-related) day job where everyone is a standard/restricted user by default.)

Couple of cases in point:

the Spitfire Audio downloader app didn't work with LABS products from a standard account. It would seem to install OK from admin but then crash out when trying to use it from a standard account. (Think it was someone here who posted the fix of which files to copy across, and I would hope they have fixed this by now?)


last year I grabbed one of the Izotope Ozone Elements offers and this weekend I've been trying to play with it for the first time with Reaper. 

For seemingly any track I create, even a 2 bar Midi phrase with the basic ReaSynth, when I try the Mastering Assistant, it does some analysis, asks if I want to Accept... and then when I do, completely crashes Reaper. 

This crashes reliably every time I try it. I've restarted, and reinstalled both Reaper and Elements, to no avail.

But if I login with my seldom-used admin account, the same steps work fine with no crash (although Reaper and Elements, and goodness-knows what other software aren't authorised for this user so it's not an easy solution to switch over to that account.)

A bit of poke around shows that the admin user's Documents folder has some extra files which look relevant and there are also some extra bits in the registry for the admin user. I don't want to just randomly try copying files and registry keys around - that way madness lies.
But neither Ozone Elements and Reaper are exactly obscure bits of software - they must have loads of users. Could I _really _be the only user that is trying to use these tools as a non-admin user? Is that such a weird thing to do?

If it's not this, why does it crash with a standard user and not with the admin one...? (And why does the admin user seemingly have extra files and registry settings?)

[/rant]


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## MartinH. (Mar 9, 2019)

DavidY said:


> But neither Ozone Elements and Reaper are exactly obscure bits of software - they must have loads of users. Could I _really _be the only user that is trying to use these tools as a non-admin user? Is that such a weird thing to do?



My impression is that pretty much every developer of audio stuff doesn't have / can't afford robust QA. Maybe it's not even possible in the first place to feasibly test enough hard/software combinations because there are so many variables in what people use, I don't know.
Software development is hard, even more so when you try to make a living from it, so I don't want to give them too much shit.

I use Neutron Elements in Reaper and I only use a Windows user account with admin rights, and still everytime I open Neutron Elements, it complains about "Meter Tap 2.dll was not found on your system. Inter-plugin communication will not function properly. Please reinstall Neutron". So it's not _just _the admin account thing that causes issues. 
It still works as a regular plugin, so I didn't bother wasting much time trying to fix it. But it's annoying to always click away those error messages.


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## JamieLang (Mar 9, 2019)

I ran my Win7 64bit box for 9 years or so as a non admin. It's good form. I think it's in no small part WHY it ran mostly trouble free up until it's end when components started going south. 

I'm experimenting with running Win10Pro as an admin with UAC on. Fact is that if you want to turn UAC off, you can't run as an admin. It was really green in Win7...wanted to see where they are. I've had some odd UAC prompts up under the installer window and such...but, in general, it's done pretty well. I'm honestly not that sure it makes a lot easier, though. I guess you don't need a second password--you just explicitly right click and "run as administrator"....instead of "run as..." and putting in your admin password. Ehh. I WILL say I've had so many issues with these latest updates, I'll not do it that way if I have to rebuild--just on the off chance that was related.


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## DavidY (Mar 10, 2019)

I think my problem with Izotope is not a UAC issue as such.
More than when I try to install it, I have to "Run As" my admin level account, but then it leaves important stuff against the registry and documents folder of my admin account and not the one I want to use.

Although in some ways UAC is a good thing because I guess it does make it safer to run an admin account all the time.

I get the thing about software developers being limited in resources, but surely Izotope have enough customers and products to devise a method of putting files/registry entries in a different place.

Anyway I found the way to fix it for me - I temporarily gave admin rights to my Standard account, ran the Izotope installer, and then removed admin rights again. Which is a slight palaver but seems to be working so far.


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## AllanH (Mar 10, 2019)

You really do not need to run in an administrative account always. You simply "run as administrator" whenever you need. As such, there is some value in either 1) having a dedicated administrator password/account that you use in that case (especially if you're not the only person using the computer, or 2) assigning yourself administrative rights and allow "run as administrator" without a password. 

I do (2), which to some extent is a bit of shortcut, and more of a risk than (1).

My two cents.


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## DavidY (Mar 10, 2019)

AllanH said:


> You really do not need to run in an administrative account always. You simply "run as administrator" whenever you need.


I would agree with you - but I fear Izotope perhaps didn't get the memo.

I generally use method (1), but this doesn't work with the problem I had, because "Run As" with a different admin user name means it puts the Izotope goodies against the admin user name, not the one I actually want to use.


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## AllanH (Mar 10, 2019)

DavidY said:


> I would agree with you - but I fear Izotope perhaps didn't get the memo.
> 
> I generally use method (1), but this doesn't work with the problem I had, because "Run As" with a different admin user name means it puts the Izotope goodies against the admin user name, not the one I actually want to use.



That's pretty lame.


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## kitekrazy (Mar 10, 2019)

DavidY said:


> Many years ago, I was told that one should setup Windows with an admin account, but also create a non-admin/ standard account for general use day-to-day.
> 
> [/rant]



That would only make sense if others are using your system. One time in frustration I think it was my W7-10 upgrade something messed up and I named the admin WTF. So my admin is now WTF. My user folder is also WTF.


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## dzilizzi (Mar 10, 2019)

I am running as administrator on my music computer and still have to set half my programs to run as administrator. I have no idea why other than I have less issues when my DAWs are set that way. I am the only user, so it isn’t an issue. And I have medium user controls so it always asks before loading. I think about changing it, but the short extra time it takes to click ok is worth not having something run that I don’t want to run.


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## DavidY (Mar 10, 2019)

kitekrazy said:


> That would only make sense if others are using your system.


I spent a lot of time in Windows XP, which was before the days of UAC. I think the risk of malicious software using admin rights (if you were logged in as admin) was somewhat higher in those days. So in those days it was definitely good practice. 

I still think there might be some security advantage to it though, but probably less with more modern versions of Windows.


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## Olivier1024 (Mar 10, 2019)

I had problems to get Ozone 8 Adv to work properly with Reaper or other DAW (Win10Pro).

The solution I found to get Ozone 8 to work properly is :

1 - Switch the user account as a "admin" account
2 - Install Ozone from this account
3 - Switch the "admin"account as a user account

This way Windows create all the read/write... everywhere where it's useful and all work perfectly.

I can use the Ozone MP3 codec Preview inside my DAW.
It also solve another problem with Ozone, now when I use the Master Assistant Ozone doesn't crash my DAW.


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## DavidY (Mar 10, 2019)

Olivier1024 said:


> I had problems to get Ozone 8 Adv to work properly with Reaper or other DAW (Win10Pro).
> 
> The solution I found to get Ozone 8 to work properly is :
> 
> ...



Yeah, that's what I did in the end. We shouldn't have to do that sort of thing though.


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## Olivier1024 (Mar 10, 2019)

I asked Izotope support to test this solution and indicate it in their FAQ. I never get their answer.
The problem come from Izotope.

When I asked Izotope about problems with Ozone 8, thay indicate that :
" Our software typically requires users to run the account with admin privileges.
You should be installing and using the software and computer as the admin user. "

I understand that they do not care about people using windows with an user account.


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## JamieLang (Mar 10, 2019)

At one point, it was a function of my job to reverse engineering various developers' apps, in house and third party to find out WHY they required admin rights and how to change that on the client side.

In like 90% of cases, it was two things: them doing something that assumed that the user had admin rights to THEIR OWN folder in Program Files...and/or--they wrote things that were critical to the app's working into the install user profile.

*So, the fix is that with an admin account, you grant "users" read/write (or full control) to the directory and all subfolders and files of C:\ProgramFiles\Izotope\ShittyDevsApp. * This CAN be tricky in the Win10 with the LEGACY programFiles(x86)...as even with an admin account you'll have to run a specified elevated Explorer to make the changes. Or do it in an elevated Powershell, obviously--but...I mean, I don't even want to dig deep for that syntax just to change a handful of permissions on a local machine. There's an explorer shortcut on my desktop--right click, run as administrator...make the changes.

*The fix for the second is to give the regular user account admin privs….install the software and take them back away. But, no should you ever need to have it useable by ANOTHER user account, you need to give them temp rights to install.* The GOOD side...is that often this will take care of the first, because the user account doing the install might get the "creator Owner" rights to the folder, which will continue after you remove their admin privs.

That's from I can't even count how many apps...tracing files being opened and registry differences...and...in the end, those two, were the HUGE offenders. Sure--the other ten percent would curl your toes, or did mine in tracing the fixes--component registrations...various cryptic system (meaning no the company's own) Registry key permissions...local machine rights to load drivers...anyway--much more complex and unique to the situation fixes. But, the above was really most of it.

It's something that's super quick to try. Obviously YMMV.


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