# How to break into media composing and make a good living from it?



## mark812 (Apr 10, 2013)

This is the question that's been bothering me for a while, and it again fell to my mind while I was reading the "Ok, so who actually makes a living off their music?" There are a lot of successful composers that are active here so I'm sure that this is the right place to ask and collect all of advice in one place.

Since I'm a beginner in this world, I'd love to know how to make a solid living from composing for media. What are the areas besides film, TV and games that need orchestral and hybrid music? I love this forum and I learnt so much here, but I've never read a thread like this one.

Also, how does one start composing for commercials? Games?

While I pretty much understand that if you want to score for movies, you should hang and meet film people at festivals. But, commerials are completely enigmatic to me. How to find all the potential clients and work? How to start composing for libraries? That's even more mysterious to me.

How to start, what to be aware of?

Any advice is greatly appreciated. o-[][]-o


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## j_kranz (Apr 10, 2013)

*Re: How to make a good living from composing?*

Thats the question of all questions for composers! I've recently made the segway into writing for a living, and although I think you're going to get a different answer from every successful composer, I have a few pieces of advice that I believe helped me...

-Maintain ALL relationships in a professional manner... I recently broke into writing for games and its now my primary income source, HOWEVER it was actually another composer who brought me in and helped me get my start... since he simply got too busy. You never know where a break might come from...

-I'd recommend moving to an area that is a hotspot for media, such as Los Angeles... While not everyone does this, it's much easier to at least get some work within some facet of the business and learn the ins and outs.

-I think Malcolm Gladwell says it takes about 10,000 hours to become a professional at something, and I think he's about right. For me it took about five years. Bear in mind that it takes time... and those 10,000 hours will go faster if you're working on music. If you also have a full time day job and bills to pay and a girlfriend etc, its going to take longer to get there. Choosing this career requires a lot of patience is basically what I'm trying to get at.

Hope this helps a little bit, and the most important thing... stick with it and believe in yourself! =o


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## windshore (Apr 10, 2013)

I'd recommend not moving to LA. 

You ask about a "good living" and that is very different in different cities. In LA if you want to eventually own a house in a nice neighborhood, you better consistently be hitting into 6 figures. So much is done virtually now anyway, I'm not sure that it means as much to be here in person.


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## mark812 (Apr 10, 2013)

*Re: How to make a good living from composing?*

Guys, thanks for responding. I'm currently in Europe and probably will stay for awhile. Industry is solid here, not LA..but solid. 

I read lot of stuff and pretty much everyone says that student films and commercials are the most logical way to start in media composing. I've had a few student film gigs, but commercials..I don't even know where and how to start. :?


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## passenger57 (Apr 10, 2013)

> How to make a good living from composing?



Selling your soul to satan is usually a good place to start. haha just kidding. 

Well, just make friends with as many directors and music editors as you can. Also network with other working composers, sometimes they need reliable additional music guys to help out.


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Apr 10, 2013)

passenger57 @ Wed Apr 10 said:


> Selling your soul to satan is usually a good place to start...



i'm interested! 

can you PM me his email adress? thanks in advance!


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## Waywyn (Apr 11, 2013)

mark812 @ Wed Apr 10 said:


> This is the question that's been bothering me for a while, and it again fell to my mind while I was reading the "Ok, so who actually makes a living off their music?" There are a lot of successful composers that are active here so I'm sure that this is the right place to ask and collect all of advice in one place.
> 
> Since I'm a beginner in this world, I'd love to know how to make a solid living from composing for media. What are the areas besides film, TV and games that need orchestral and hybrid music? I love this forum and I learnt so much here, but I've never read a thread like this one.
> 
> ...



It totally sounds stupid, but you have to be just three things: 1. innovative and 2. sticking to it and 3. if you get under the water, get up again and proceed with 1 and 2.

There is actually no receipt for it. It is just a long process of networking and writing convincing music. It also contains discipline and if you find yourself writing 90% music and 10% bizz stuff you are probably doing something wrong! 


Just as a comment which should make you (and others think). Why does these questions such as "where are the potential clients" exists in times of fast internet, google and other options? I mean, if you e.g. want to work for mobile games, there is nothing easier to browse through the Apple store, find out all those 1000 developers and start contacting them. I remember my first session when going on the job hunt was something like 500 emails. I was literally sitting days in front of the screen doing nothing else then writing emails and calling companies!

How do you start working for libraries? You simply open a search engine and type music library companies and you literally get drowned in.

In my opinion the first thing to do is change your "how to find X" attitude into "Now lets sit down and start finding X"


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## guitarman1960 (Apr 11, 2013)

Yes, I think it probably is down to being pro-active and sending your very best tracks out to as many people as possible. I'm just starting out writing trailer style cues and have been busy finding as many music supervisors and trailer music libraries contact details as I can get. You just have to use the internet.
Whether you get any response is another matter of course, but like anything competitive and artistic it's really going to be through sheer persistance and the sheer weight of numbers of the enquiries you make that will enventually get maybe one or two people to actually listen to your track.
My day job is in the web design industry and that's a very oversaturated market too with many unemployed designers trying to get work. Making literally hundreds of enquiries to get one or two responses is the norm I'm afraid, so you have to be determined that nothing will stop you succeeding. Keep on knocking!


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## cadalac (Apr 18, 2013)

*Re: How to make a good living from composing?*



j_kranz @ Wed Apr 10 said:


> -I'd recommend moving to an area that is a hotspot for media, such as Los Angeles... While not everyone does this, it's much easier to at least get some work within some facet of the business and learn the ins and outs.



I've been wondering lately what the markets are like outside of North America and Europe. Do composers in Asia or South America have better opportunities for beginners? I don't like the idea of "sending 500 emails and getting 1 or 2 responses."


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## Marius Masalar (Apr 18, 2013)

I put together a blog post a year or two ago summarizing my answer to this question since it crops up quite frequently. Here's what I wrote:

1. Learn your tools. Mas­ter them so they’re never in your way, learn their tricks, per­son­al­it­ies, and best practices.

2. Learn to work fast. Then learn to work faster.

3. Make an excel­lent demo reel show­cas­ing a vari­ety of styles.

4. Make an excel­lent web pres­ence to host that demo reel and inform­a­tion about your­self. Make it easy for people to Google you and find your music. Make it easy to listen to and share.

5. Send out sev­eral emails per day to young dir­ect­ors whose work you admire on You­Tube, to game design­ers whose work you admire, to folks you’ve read about in art­icles, to people you’ve found on for­ums ded­ic­ated to film mak­ing, gam­ing etc. Do not write a form let­ter and change just a few words for each — set aside some time and do your due dili­gence. And don’t stop until you start get­ting answers. For every 50 emails you send, you’ll likely get between 5 – 10 responses, of which 3 will be a polite no, one of which will be a “we’ll keep you on file”, and the other which might be a “maybe, let’s talk about it.”

6. While you’re writ­ing so many emails, learn to write well. Be con­cise, affable, pro­fes­sional, and cour­teous. The bet­ter your emails, the more responses you’ll get. Remem­ber: no form letters.

7. Respect your work; just because you’re new doesn’t mean you’re not worth money. You may not be worth $500/minute yet, but you sure are worth some­thing. Find a num­ber and try to get paid for your work, even if only an hon­or­arium. If you teach people that you think your work is worth noth­ing, then don’t be sur­prised when they keep com­ing back expect­ing you to work for free even when they get big­ger budgets.

8. Watch a lot of films, study a lot of film scores, and learn about the pro­cess of mak­ing films. Not your part, theirs. Find out about cine­ma­to­graphy, learn to recog­nize good edit­ing, refine your eye for good dir­ec­tion and good writ­ing. If you can hold a con­ver­sa­tion on their pas­sion with them, you’re already a more attract­ive pro­spect than the ignor­ant com­poser too caught up in his work to real­ize that other people exist and con­trib­ute to a film. Learn to under­stand the con­text within which you’ll be work­ing, in other words.

9. Learn about audio from other per­spect­ives: learn the phys­ics, learn the psy­cho­logy of musical influ­ence, learn the biases of cul­tural iden­tity. Learn about audio formats, about com­pres­sion, about deliv­ery formats, and about the pro­cess of imple­ment­ing music in a project.

10. Learn to man­age your time well. Fig­ure out how many pro­jects you can have on the go at once (if it’s just one then you’re in the wrong line of work), fig­ure out how many minutes of music you can con­sist­ently write per day in vari­ous styles (again, if it’s just one then you’re not going to be par­tic­u­larly com­pet­it­ive), and be dili­gent about stick­ing within the zone of com­fort that allows you to max­im­ize the qual­ity of your work on each pro­ject. But don’t stag­nate: let that com­fort zone expand as you get more experienced.

It's a very broad question to answer, but hopefully some of the advice you're getting on this thread will point you in the right direction!


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## Tanuj Tiku (Apr 18, 2013)

Well, India is a big hotspot for media composers. Tons of work here as such and a huge vibrant industry. If you are a great programmer or songwriter, come down!

Commercials I hear is a bigger music driven industry than most parts in the west in India. Almost 95% of the music is custom made as in by hiring a composer. There is hardly any licensing. So there are lots of opportunities for young composers to be around. Royalties are a problem but you get decent up front money. The royalty law has been passed recently and we are hoping to see the change in the next couple of years. Some get it, most do not.

The music producer/programmer scene is also quite big as such but this remains a very elite group. Fewer good guys around and people who work with top composers. But there is still decent amount of work.

Lots of great artists. If you are a great guitar player or something, you will get good work. Less for orchestral instruments - very little work even though we have a shortage of players now!

Its good money too specially if you are staying here. 

There are however, major problems also. Its the everyday stuff and creative output/vision at times you will find most difficult to deal with. Bad debts are common and it takes upto 6 months to get your money (or more) for commercials. Sometimes you work for peanuts and songwriting is huge in India. Its the film music of India - just like scores are in Hollywood but its also the only big-machinery music scene here - like its both film music and pop. 

This is also why I have a problem here as a film composer (score) - I get a lot of songwriting work offered (not the kind that is my type or wish). Scores are not really considered that important but there is nonetheless lots of work because we produce over 950 films a year in India. All of them need a score! And the scene is improving but unfortunately the budgets are not. So working with an orchestra is a rare chance even for some of the top composers. At best, you can get a string section in Chennai. But you can make a very good living doing music in India for sure. If you want to write music for great intellectual films or blockbusters in the way the west has, then may be this is not the place to write a lot of that kind of music. Obviously, Indian music is also very important here if you are not writing scores - they are still orchestral with some of them being earthy and rustic with roots in Indian classical music.

It is also an industry not run on merit. You will find people who do not know how to compose well at all or produce or play an instrument getting some of the top dollar work and lots of money. Awards are a joke. I dont care about any of this in any case.

If you want to write great scores and get paid lots of money for it, its difficult largely because of creative and technical problems. Film mixes are horrible. There is a song and dance in every film - even a super hero film like the one I am working on right now. If you can get past it, lots of work awaits you!

But if you can manage to live in what is a great mix of old and new in Mumbai, you are very welcome to try!

Its fractured, but its working for now. 

Of course, I want to add that no matter where you are some things are the same in every industry and any part of the world. We still work till late, ignore social life, lock ourselves in and work till I can see the sun. Crazy deadlines exist here also. 

You can only be as original and innovative as you allow yourself to be. Its who you are and what you do with the time you have at hand. 

Meeting people is great but I have been lucky. I found work 6 months after moving to Mumbai and then it picked up later. 

I also met some great composers who helped me further my little career. I worked with all of them and most of it has been a great experience. 

But if you want to write music for films and can get work in the US or Europe - then do that first because moving here means a lot of adjustments because its a completely different world both culturally and industry wise. The general quality of work is far better over all in the US and some other parts of the world, like scores out of Hollywood etc. You are also more likely to find like-minded people out there because film music is the only music in a movie - here you are always going to battle with songs. But if you want to write songs and can understand the mechanics of a new language and the film music of India - great place to be!

If you want a change or cant find work wherever you are, please come down and I can introduce you to some people!


Best of luck.


Tanuj.


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## stonzthro (Apr 18, 2013)

Most people 'break in' slowly - very few are able to make a big splash right away.

Have patience with yourself and your career and the industry and the people you work with and your income streams.

It takes time - lots of time.


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## germancomponist (Apr 18, 2013)

Mathazzar @ Thu Apr 18 said:


> I put together a blog post a year or two ago summarizing my answer to this question since it crops up quite frequently. Here's what I wrote:
> 
> 1. Learn your tools. Mas­ter them so they’re never in your way, learn their tricks, per­son­al­it­ies, and best practices.
> 
> ...



+1


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## cadalac (Apr 19, 2013)

Hi Tanuj. I really enjoyed reading your post. It's interesting to see what it's like composing in Mumbai right now. It was also quite interesting to read your thoughts about the differences in music from Hollywood and "Bollywood" films. I guess you have to be pretty versatile to work there. It's hard for me to imagine what it would be like living in a city with 2/3rd the population of my own country!


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## mark812 (Apr 20, 2013)

Guys, thanks so much for your informative posts. o-[][]-o


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## JohnG (Apr 20, 2013)

Good post Marius!


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## mathis (Apr 20, 2013)

Mathazzar @ Thu Apr 18 said:


> 8. Watch a lot of films, study a lot of film scores, and learn about the pro­cess of mak­ing films. Not your part, theirs. Find out about cine­ma­to­graphy, learn to recog­nize good edit­ing, refine your eye for good dir­ec­tion and good writ­ing. If you can hold a con­ver­sa­tion on their pas­sion with them, you’re already a more attract­ive pro­spect than the ignor­ant com­poser too caught up in his work to real­ize that other people exist and con­trib­ute to a film. Learn to under­stand the con­text within which you’ll be work­ing, in other words.



I think this is one of the most important advices! I keep telling this to everybody asking me for advise.

I'm not sure about the email acquisition. Most jobs I got because I happened to be in the right door at the right moment. Try to meet the people you would love to work with in person.


And very interesting post about the state of working in India. Thanks Tanuij!


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## Sasje (Apr 23, 2013)

Interesting question...

While I am an amateur (I don't see myself composing for a living) I do agree with all the above advise. I work as a freelance programmer for a living. I've never had to give a business card to anyone, I got to know a couple of people and they started to spread the word. Took me about 8 years to getting really noticed, and now I work full time for various companies all over the world. And still I don't have my own website and no business cards. All word of mouth. I think it might work the same for any freelance job: have a couple of nice connections, work hard for them, invest your time and people will tell others about you, and that starts the ball rolling. 

If you know a filmmaker or a student filmmaker, I would suggest to offer a free score, at least you can work on your scores and have an actual demo reel, no matter if't s a B movie or a short commercial. When I started programming 15 years ago I did the exact same thing: offered free software and that got it started for me.

Hard work, persistence, patience and connections... that should work one day.


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