# Hedwig's Theme - MockUp



## Casey Edwards (Jul 7, 2011)

Lately I've been trying to refine my Orchestral Template so I thought I'd give an existing piece a go for comparison and since I've been in a Harry Potter mood I thought, "why not Hedwig's Theme?" It's only half of the piece but I've only spent about 8 hours on it starting yesterday and working on it some today as well, and man some of those runs are a real bitch to play. It's still a lot of live playing but I had to input some of the stuff for the sake of time. There are some odd spots that I've noticed already on my own, but I'd rather just go ahead and get a consensus from you guys because I always miss stuff. The only brass used is CineBrass besides a small input of muted trumpet at the beginning. 

http://soundcloud.com/caseyedwards/hedwigs-theme-mockup


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## Dracarys (Jul 7, 2011)

Awesome. Are those strings samples like hollywood winds or did you sequence them yourself?


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## mducharme (Jul 8, 2011)

Hi,

Very nice! Please do not take what I say below harshly, it is meant to be constructive, as this is well done, but I just wanted to point out what I do hear.

The reverb sounds better here but the runs do sound synthy - which is not really your fault, those things are *really* tough to pull off well with samples.

At 1:23 the balance seems a bit off - I can hear the horns just fine but can barely hear the strings.

At 1:32-1:35ish there are a few of those problematic legato transitions in Cinebrass, the same ones I ran into in my "short love story" cue.

At 1:39 you have some machine gun going on there (same when the winds do the repeated notes again).

When the brass does the same part I don't hear the machine gun, but with repeated notes in a row there should be some shaping (they would not all be played at the same level by real players).


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## Casey Edwards (Jul 8, 2011)

Casalena @ Fri Jul 08 said:


> Awesome. Are those strings samples like hollywood winds or did you sequence them yourself?



The strings are just LASS. Thanks for lsitening.



mducharme @ Fri Jul 08 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Very nice! Please do not take what I say below harshly, it is meant to be constructive, as this is well done, but I just wanted to point out what I do hear.
> 
> ...



Like I've said before, I've had my pieces taken apart and dissected and ask a million questions on my decisions by my mentors and teachers so I'm used to being told what can be improved/fixed. So thanks for your honesty, it's really all that's worth while.

Now to your points; Man, I really REALLY tried with these strings and you're right, it is really tough to pull it off, but I have confidence that LASS is capable of doing it under the right hands. I'll compare the balance issues with the live recording when I pull it back up and fix that, should be an easy fix. I was aware of the Horn legato problem and I meant to fix that by automating the volume of my stems, but I forgot. One of those things I already knew was wrong and forgot to fix. I hope this is fixed soon because I barely even bumped that modwheel! haha And the machine gunning...ugh...I'm not very good at getting EWQLSO winds to sound good, but I'll try some new things and see what I can do. Thanks for you input, it's really helpful!


Hopefully I take it upon myself to finish it for my own sake, but for now I have a piano recital I need to prepare for! >8o


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## Arturas (Jul 8, 2011)

Common... And this is one of the things what I really don't understand. Why people doing this? John Williams did a nice job... And I hear a lot of people taking their expensive time and doing Williams or other composers music with samples.. again and again! Why? What is the reason for doing that? This is really not a good experience.. Trying to understand how Williams or other composers do music and thinking that this job will gives you experience? NO!!! Never. These kind of jobs destroying your own creativity... again and again. And if you want to say that it's just because you're trying the sample libraries or whatever, so good - try it with your own music and this will be a good experience. Do your own music and not similar to other composers experience or style.. Go deep in to your self, understand what you feel, how do you feel and good luck realizing your own creativity... Be a fan of your own music and only, love what you do and day by day dream doing it better and better - this will be very right way and very good experience for you. This is my opinion - you can use it or you can believe in your opinion, but don't waste your time doing jobs like this - it will never works for your career and your creativity.

Good Luck,
Arturas


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## dannthr (Jul 8, 2011)

Mock-ups are an incredibly important skill for the professional composer and one that is best developed detached from the writing process.

Of course, the exercise is lost if the person working on the mock-up ignores the direct comparison to the original source music.

And with that in mind, Casey, do you honestly feel like your version SOUNDS like the original recording?

If not, how can you fix it. These are questions you need to learn to ask yourself--when you identify a challenging aspect of the mimicry, articulate the question: "How..."

Try things out, and when it doesn't work, ask us, if you think you've got it, show us.


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## mducharme (Jul 8, 2011)

Arturas,

I do think there is something of value in mockups when you are learning. You get to really look closely at orchestration, phrasing, mixing, everything that goes into a recording, with a perfect reference recording to compare with and attempt to match as closely as possible. Casey said he was doing a template test - I think it makes perfect sense to use an existing piece for this, don't you? He can't very well write something new and have a real recording of a symphony orchestra playing it to compare it with his sample sound/orchestration/phrasing/mix.

I would agree it's better to do your own works as doing mockups can lead to sounding too much like that composer, and Casey already has the John Williams sound down. When I was younger I listened to lots of Goldsmith and Horner and I generally try hard to not sound like them but it still appears in my music because I spent too much time doing mockups of their works.

I might suggest doing mockups of sections of Ravel/Debussy/Mahler/Vaughan Williams/Stravinsky/Bartok etc., rather than John Williams, but I would not go so far to say that mockups are a waste of time.


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## Casey Edwards (Jul 8, 2011)

WHOA guys! Simmer down now. First of all if I have to defend myself then so be it; here we go!

Other than a couple short 10-30 second one offs I have never spent time doing covers via MIDI orchestration. So, why have such a fit? Did you even listen to my other pieces? I write music ALL the time, everyday, using pencil, paper, piano, and my computer when it's time. I'm graduating with my degree in Composition next May and have spent the past 6 years learning to write by mostly copying styles and studying scores so that I can understand everything involved in composition and its craft. I have won awards and scholarships based on my merit of writing MY OWN MUSIC. I'm not rich or famous but damn it I try my best and I do things that worth while more often that not. I'm currently also working on a string quartet among several other things. 

I just recently did a Re-Score for the _first time_ too, because I wanted to test my own emotive reaction to film and I had some remarks about the MIDI orchestration. It was JW influenced so I thought it was definitely worth my while to try and get a better grasp on my MIDI orchestration skills with a REAL recording to compare it to. As far as it sounding close to the original, I think some of it does and some doesn't. I only spent about 8 hours over 2 days working on it throughout the days in between taking care of my daughter and domestic activities while my girlfriend was at school and work. I'm definitely glad I spent that time doing it because it helped me learn some things about controlling dynamics via MIDI and expose some things that I need to work on. I have no problem orchestrating and composing without using a computer and in no way am I threatened by these accusations just because it pisses you off that someone took the time to do this. I learned something by it that has been just as valuable as the times I studied Masterwork scores and composers, going to concerts, playing in concerts, reducing orchestral works, expanding piano to orchestra, etc, etc. It has all been very informative in my experience and my growing as a composer. And do you honestly think I learned nothing from this other than MIDI skills? I just spent 8 hours puling information of a very well orchestrated piece. 

And of course I LOVE writing my own music and I search inwardly every time I sit down alone with my thoughts and ideas and the music that accompanies my every day life. So please, take the time to ask before you accuse. You know what they say when you ASSume.


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## Arturas (Jul 10, 2011)

Casey Edwards @ Fri Jul 08 said:


> And of course I LOVE writing my own music and I search inwardly every time I sit down alone with my thoughts and ideas and the music that accompanies my every day life. So please, take the time to ask before you accuse. You know what they say when you ASSume.



Dear Casey,

I was in your soundcloud profile and listened what you do. Everything is fine with your music, but 80% of it is absolutely like JW or other major composers. I heard your style, but not too much. Right now is maybe fine, ok, whatever.. But when the time comes for you to write for picture.. Believe me it will be hard to be not like JW or like something other but not you. This is why I'm saying that you need to be a fan of your own style and your own music and only - this is the only way to be successful! If you have a talent use it in the right way. Don't waste your time trying to be like someone else - it will never gives you success!! Never. This is not critics - don't take it like that. It's only my opinion.

But in your profile there was something I enjoyed o/~ 

Cheers,
Arturas


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## dannthr (Jul 10, 2011)

That's like criticizing someone for playing scales on the piano by saying: Clearly you're a good pianist, but your music is too chromatic.


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## Casey Edwards (Jul 10, 2011)

Arturas @ Sun Jul 10 said:


> Casey Edwards @ Fri Jul 08 said:
> 
> 
> > And of course I LOVE writing my own music and I search inwardly every time I sit down alone with my thoughts and ideas and the music that accompanies my every day life. So please, take the time to ask before you accuse. You know what they say when you ASSume.
> ...



I wrote another long reply, but this part is all that matters:

What I'm saying is, yes I'm influenced, as is everyone else by other composers, but it doesn't dictate my direction in music nor is it a crutch for me to follow. My voice in music hasn't matured yet but it is still my own regardless of similarities in style when I approach to write for a certain genre for the sake of practice. JW is just a sand speck in the composers that I've studied over the years. When I want to write Americana I think Copland-esque; when I write quirky music I feel an automatic mix of Elfman and Stravinsky in my head. The more I become exposed to the more it mixes up in my melting pot.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jul 11, 2011)

Arturas @ Fri Jul 08 said:


> Common... And this is one of the things what I really don't understand. Why people doing this? John Williams did a nice job... And I hear a lot of people taking their expensive time and doing Williams or other composers music with samples.. again and again! Why? What is the reason for doing that? This is really not a good experience.. Trying to understand how Williams or other composers do music and thinking that this job will gives you experience? NO!!! Never. These kind of jobs destroying your own creativity... again and again. And if you want to say that it's just because you're trying the sample libraries or whatever, so good - try it with your own music and this will be a good experience. Do your own music and not similar to other composers experience or style.. Go deep in to your self, understand what you feel, how do you feel and good luck realizing your own creativity... Be a fan of your own music and only, love what you do and day by day dream doing it better and better - this will be very right way and very good experience for you. This is my opinion - you can use it or you can believe in your opinion, but don't waste your time doing jobs like this - it will never works for your career and your creativity.
> 
> Good Luck,
> Arturas



I really hope you are not saying mocking up composers that are making it in the business is a bad idea. I also hope you are not saying your sound is unique and you have no influences at all.

Also you are wrong about this being a waste of time. Doing a mock-up is very difficult and teaches you more about MIDI control and what articulations to use than your own composition.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 11, 2011)

Arturas @ Sun Jul 10 said:


> Casey Edwards @ Fri Jul 08 said:
> 
> 
> > And of course I LOVE writing my own music and I search inwardly every time I sit down alone with my thoughts and ideas and the music that accompanies my every day life. So please, take the time to ask before you accuse. You know what they say when you ASSume.
> ...



As I wrote in a similar discussion on the SOL forum, there are 2 types of successful film composers, those with signature sounds and those who are chameleons. There are very few of the former and some who are considered that, like John WIlliams, actually are not but are only responding to the films they are being hired to do. If you listen to the early Westerns he did or even "JFK", they sound nothing like "Jurassic Park" or "Harry Potter." 

In the concert hall world, being a unique stylist is very important. In the film scoring world, it matters not a whit. Jerry Goldsmith was the ultimate chameleon and most of us consider him one of the 10 best film composers who has ever lived.


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