# Who in here is using Cakewalk by BandLab?



## widescreen (Sep 18, 2020)

As I started with music production I tested some cheap/free DAW, but the only one that seemed feature rich enough AND with a nice interface was CbB for me. And it's free! As I got more experience it still looks like it could stay my major DAW. But I'm still struggling with some details.

@Mike Enjo Your YT channel helps a lot, thanks for that!

What about other users of CbB in here? How deep is your actual knowledge on this product?

As I look around, most seem to use the "big" DAW with a decent price tag. The commercial pros will stay at ProTools, Cubase, Logic, Ableton etc, that's obvious and unquestionable.

The only one of them I would also be interested in is PreSonus StudioOne 5 Professional if it wouldn't be that expensive. But is it worth $400 over CbB?


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## Markrs (Sep 18, 2020)

widescreen said:


> The only one of them I would also be interested in is PreSonus StudioOne 5 Professional if it wouldn't be that expensive. But is it worth $400 over CbB?


can’t comment much on the difference as I only had a play around with cakewalk but stayed with reaper.

regarding the cost, they currently have a crossgrade from any DAW (though you might Want to check that) ongoing at plugin boutique https://www.pluginboutique.com/products/6549 which is only £153.03 until 30 September with code: f6460a6l

i often see it on sale on VI-C / KVR / Knobcloud for around similar prices or less


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## widescreen (Sep 18, 2020)

Markrs said:


> can’t comment much on the difference as I only had a play around with cakewalk but stayed with reaper.
> 
> regarding the cost, they currently have a crossgrade from any DAW (though you might Want to check that) ongoing at plugin boutique https://www.pluginboutique.com/products/6549 which is only £153.03 until 30 September with code: f6460a6l
> 
> i often see it on sale on VI-C / KVR / Knobcloud for around similar prices or less


I also tested Reaper. Features are quite right, but the interface couldn't convince me. But that's subjective.

Thanks for the info, 200€ sound better than 400€. But still more than e.g. Reaper. Or does the Artist version suffice? I remember there were limitations in number of tracks in most trimmed versions of big DAW. That would be a no-go.


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## wst3 (Sep 18, 2020)

I've used Cakewalk since it was Cakewalk Pro Audio sometime in the late 1990s. I was a beta tester for them for over 10 years. I watched Sonar mature, even did the lifetime subscription thing when it was offered. And then everything fell apart, and Cakewalk was no more.

I had been toying around with Studio One and Digital Performer. DP was still a bit "young" under Windows, but Studio One was mature, and getting better with each release. I ended up switching to Studio One.

I still have the last version of Sonar Platinum installed, and I have been updating Cakewalk by Bandlab as well. I think Noel and company are still doing a stellar job, and I will probably never abandon Cakewalk/Sonar. But I will always have that worry in the back of my mind... it could disappear again.

So for now I start the majority of my projects in Studio One, but if I need to finish something really quickly, or need a feature that I know is absent in Studio One I will work in Cakewalk by Bandlab.

Both platforms have their strengths. Maybe start with Cakewalk by Bandlab?


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## robgb (Sep 18, 2020)

widescreen said:


> The only one of them I would also be interested in is PreSonus StudioOne 5 Professional if it wouldn't be that expensive. But is it worth $400 over CbB?


Studio One is a good DAW. I used to use it regularly. But I don't think it's nearly worth the price when you can get Reaper (which is far superior in my personal opinion) for $60.

As for Bandlab—it isn't cross platform, so it's limited.


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## jonathanwright (Sep 18, 2020)

You can also grab S1 from Splice, on a rent to own basis.









Studio One by PreSonus | Splice


Studio One Professional DAW is designed for intuitive end-to-end music production. Try it free for 14 days, then pay $16.99/mo until it's yours.




splice.com


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## widescreen (Sep 18, 2020)

wst3 said:


> I've used Cakewalk since it was Cakewalk Pro Audio sometime in the late 1990s. I was a beta tester for them for over 10 years. I watched Sonar mature, even did the lifetime subscription thing when it was offered. And then everything fell apart, and Cakewalk was no more.
> 
> I had been toying around with Studio One and Digital Performer. DP was still a bit "young" under Windows, but Studio One was mature, and getting better with each release. I ended up switching to Studio One.
> 
> ...


Hey, you seem to know nearly as much about Cakewalk as the developers. 
My first time I saw it was in the 90s, too, but that time I was not thinking about getting into music that deep. Over 20 years later, things look different. 

That's what I thought from the first time I started with Cakewalk in 2019, what a stunning kind of DAW just for free!! That made budget free for the really important stuff like virtual instruments. 
So you misunderstood a little bit. I already started with it 1 year ago and I like it a lot. But some things are not comprehensible for me, e.g. why does an instrument track playback normally when I played the MIDI myself, but does not when I paste the MIDI notes from a mid-file or another project directly in that track? It just plays back without sound like it were a single MIDI track without output attached. If I delete these notes and play/record them on my own again, they work.
Both variants look exactly the same. Does it have to be like that or is there a secret switch I miss when inserting? That is not really intuitive in 2020.

So I'm just looking around what arouses me optically to then dive deeper and check if it could be equal or better than CbB.

But you said "feature that I know is absent in Studio One". Which feature is in Cakewalk but not in Studio One?

Do you know any deep diving tutorials apart from Creative Sauce on YouTube and the Reference Manual that could help? Most are outdated (e.g. Groove3 on SONAR Platinum), all new features since 2018 are missing.

It's hard to get deep knowledge only by playing around when there is limited time and so much to learn. Besides that the sources for knowledge about e.g. Cubase, ProTools, Logic stuff etc are endless. That's why I'm looking for the major platforms as there are much more tutorials for them on every aspect.
DAW should be just basics and simply work I think, the composition/arranging skills with instruments should be the main part investing time or what do you think?


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## widescreen (Sep 18, 2020)

robgb said:


> As for Bandlab—it isn't cross platform, so it's limited.


That's no point for me cause I'm an IT pro deeply connected into the PC/Windows platform (from DOS 5.0/Win3.1 on) from endpoint to server. Everytime I work with something from the Apple universe I'm glad to come back to my Windows systems. Just subjective. 

When do I really need an Apple (or Linux) in music production/composition? Are there cases when I cannot stay away?
I do not want to start an endless discussion on Apple vs. Microsoft here, but if there are points to consider, I am open to them!


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## widescreen (Sep 18, 2020)

jonathanwright said:


> You can also grab S1 from Splice, on a rent to own basis.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip. Then it's full price over 2 years but testing is cheaper then buying and reselling it again. If there is e.g. Studio One 6 in those 2 years, do you get that for free?


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## JoelS (Sep 18, 2020)

I've used Cakewalk/Sonar since Cakewalk 9 back in some year that is a distant memory. Still using Cakewalk by BandLab currently. It does everything I need it to, which is 'handle a bunch of VIs and synths.' I don't work much with audio in large quantities, so I can't comment on its capacity there. It has some quirks that sometimes pop up, but nothing that threatens my productivity.

I don't have any workflow issues that have me wanting to explore other DAWs, so I haven't. I just stuck with Sonar while Cakewalk was in limbo as a company. They were rescued before I was forced to move to another DAW.



widescreen said:


> But some things are not comprehensible for me, e.g. why does an instrument track playback normally when I played the MIDI myself, but does not when I paste the MIDI notes from a mid-file or another project directly in that track? It just plays back without sound like it were a single MIDI track without output attached. If I delete these notes and play/record them on my own again, they work.


I don't often do that, but just tried copy/pasting MIDI from one project to another, from a synth track into Kontakt (and back the other way) and I didn't encounter that issue. Also, I've occasionally drag-and-dropped MIDI from Superior Drummer into a track and it played back properly. Do you get that error consistently, regardless of which VI/synth assigned to the track? It sounds like a routing thing or maybe there's some CC data in the MIDI clip(s) you're pasting in effecting the playback volume. As far as I know, there's no special setting in Cakewalk that needs to be enabled or switched for this to work properly. It seems to behave properly for me without any special effort.


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## jonathanwright (Sep 18, 2020)

widescreen said:


> Thanks for the tip. Then it's full price over 2 years but testing is cheaper then buying and reselling it again. If there is e.g. Studio One 6 in those 2 years, do you get that for free?



A major point upgrade normally has an upgrade fee attached, but I'm not sure if that would apply to a rent to own plan. Might be worth checking with them on that.


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## SlHarder (Sep 18, 2020)

See the next post to see why I'm a whole lot happier because of this good news.

I was very happy to jump back into a free Cakewalk when I rediscovered midi after a 15 year hiatus. It definitely handles all my current projects. Developers release updates multiple times a year.

Cakewalk is a great resource for anyone new to midi. It provides a solid daw platform. Any Cakewalk user who chooses to move into other purchased daws can make an educated decision based on their experiences using Cakewalk.

As to the question of longevity, Bandlab is an investor group that laucnhed a worldwide music sharing community and "recently acquired and relaunched brands including DJ streaming platform Chew, and cult guitar marques Harmony and Teisco." The future is never assured and change happens in many brands. The recent management changes at NativeInstruments are an example of that. I'm hoping Cakewalk lasts another 30 years.


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## Villanao (Sep 18, 2020)

Articulation maps are coming to the next Cakewalk release, in case that's your thing. You can see a preview here from 18:22


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## Markrs (Sep 18, 2020)

Villanao said:


> Articulation maps are coming to the next Cakewalk release, in case that's your thing. You can see a preview here from 18:22



That is great, massively enhances cakewalk from my perspective. It is amazing that it is free given it is a full powerful DAW.


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## Simeon (Sep 18, 2020)

I join with many others that have been with Cakewalk since the early days. I got in around Cakewalk Pro Audio 6 and have watched it continually grow into a robust Audio and MIDI production platform. One of the things I really appreciated was that Cakewalk made sure to be compliant with the MIDI spec as I was producing a lot of GM files for my PraiseTracks library and it was critical that these would be compatible.

I also have gotten used to the GUI as well as the clean look of the Transport and floating/dockable toolbar. The articulations will be a massive feature additional for sure. They have just launched an Arranger feature which looks to be very useful.

I am by no means a Cakewalk "Pro" but have been with it a looonnng time, I am always willing to help where I can.

The intervention of BandLab to revive Cakewalk from an uncertain future was I think the best thing that has ever happened. It has breathed a new life and as we already see through the monthly updates and feature adds, many new possibilities for the future.

All the best!


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## WaltM (Sep 18, 2020)

Also a long-time Cakewalk user here. I think the current version is the best yet!


widescreen said:


> ... e.g. why does an instrument track playback normally when I played the MIDI myself, but does not when I paste the MIDI notes from a mid-file or another project directly in that track? It just plays back without sound like it were a single MIDI track without output attached. If I delete these notes and play/record them on my own again, they work.
> Both variants look exactly the same. Does it have to be like that or is there a secret switch I miss when inserting? That is not really intuitive in 2020.


Chances are the MIDI you're pasting has a different channel than your instrument track. If you click on the MIDI clip and open the Event Inspector in the Control Bar, you can change the channel to match the track. You can see the track channel on the MIDI tab of the track inspector.


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## lychee (Sep 18, 2020)

What ???? "Articulation Map" ????
Ok, I was drooling in front of this tool exibited by other DAWs, and I was wondering about a possible software change.
But now this option which was missing from the program that I have been using for years will be included, never, never again will I have this crazy idea. Long live Cakewalk By Bandlab !!!

In response to @widescreen who seems a bit in doubt about CbB, Cakewalk is not a small DAW, it's been around for over 30 years, and I think it's inspired some of the current "big" sequencers. through its Skylight interface, and was even ahead of them on some points.
You should know that if two giants of music, Roland and Gibson, had this software in their hands, it is certainly not because it would have been "small" and uninteresting.

So this is my veteran's advice on this software.
Keep Cakewalk as your main sequencer, you don't have to look elsewhere, even if yes, it isn't perfect.
There will always be something to improve (as in all Daw for that matter), but it remains as powerful as the others, and now it is free, and just that puts it in first position, what more could you ask for?


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## widescreen (Sep 18, 2020)

WaltM said:


> Also a long-time Cakewalk user here. I think the current version is the best yet!
> 
> Chances are the MIDI you're pasting has a different channel than your instrument track. If you click on the MIDI clip and open the Event Inspector in the Control Bar, you can change the channel to match the track. You can see the track channel on the MIDI tab of the track inspector.


Thanks for the tip, I will check that this weekend.


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## Mr Mindcrime (Sep 18, 2020)

Interesting, all the love for Cakewalk. I was a long-time user and when they shut down right after I bought the lifetime subscription, it ticked me off so bad that I ran as fast as I could to Cubase. I've never looked back and I love Cubase now. I also have Ableton, though now that I don't play live anymore, I rarely use it. Maybe I should reinstall Cakewalk to play around with .......


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## SlHarder (Sep 18, 2020)

Mr Mindcrime said:


> it ticked me off so bad that I ran as fast as I could to Cubase


I totally get where you were coming from. Other current threads here on VI are discussing the possible uprades to EastWest Hollywood Orchestra and Spitfires reuse of previously issued libraries and how that affects current owners. 

Cakewalk has probably improved since your last use of it and it may have something to offer you.


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## wst3 (Sep 19, 2020)

Oh my - just when I thought I had settled on my primary platform... articulation maps are a big deal, I will be checking out the Cakewalk implementation at my earliest opportunity!


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## SlHarder (Sep 19, 2020)

wst3 said:


> I will be checking out the Cakewalk implementation at my earliest opportunity!


No way to be sure when that update will come out, hopefully soon. Updates have been happening bimonthly. Cakewalk usually dosen't make promises that they can't fulfill. So it's bated breath for the moment. I'm really fired up for this.


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## dzilizzi (Sep 19, 2020)

I worked with Sonar from version 8 until Platinum. I also used ProTools because that's what the guy who was teaching me used. PT doesn't use VST and pretty much all the free VI's and FX plugins are VST only. I found Sonar very easy to use coming from PT. There were a lot of things I liked about it. Most of my problems were because I couldn't afford a good enough computer to really run any DAW, except maybe Reason. 

I haven't really used CbB yet. I do have Platinum on my computer. I took advantage of the really discounted crossgrades available when Gibson announced Cakewalk was going away. I mostly use Cubase now, when I'm not using PT, mostly because of the Chord Track. But I will say coming from Sonar, Cubase is not intuitive. Studio One is better. 

As for the midi issue, I never had that problem with Sonar. I mostly used EZKeys to give me midi and just dragged and dropped it into the instrument track. Are you dragging it into its own midi track that isn't connected to an instrument? Sometimes drag and drop creates its own midi track not connected to the instrument. The other problem could be keyswitches in the instrument may be getting hit by the midi. I've had that happen where the instrument would suddenly go silent for no apparent reason. After a lot of frustration trying everything out, I noticed the keyswitch was changing and found a midi note sitting way at the bottom of the track I didn't see. Removing it fixed the problem.


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## Robo Rivard (Sep 19, 2020)

Haha, Cakewalk 1.0 was my very first MIDI-only sequencer thirty years ago, running under Windows 3.1.


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## chillbot (Sep 19, 2020)

I've written 20,000 tracks in various forms of Cakewalk, I can say it is fully "adequate" in every way. Don't let the "free" price tag deter you it's every bit exactly the same as the old paid version which I paid a lot for many times over. Better, actually, they're still improving it.

It's also maddeningly frustrating in many ways, probably too much to go into here. My biggest gripe is over the years they have slowly added more and more and more features aimed toward hobbyists, DJs, and songwriters. NOTHING AGAINST ANY OF THOSE PEOPLE I LOVE ALL OF THEM. But they aren't features that are useful to me, personally, or to a more orchestral approach to working. And slowly and slowly over the years all these features have bogged down the whole program to the point where things that used to be instantaneous are no longer. I would wish for a streamlined super-simple version of Cakewalk that would just handle MIDI, VSTs, and audio, and nothing else.

I bought Cubase a year or two ago and keep trying to convince myself to switch over but after 30 years of Cakewalk it's not easy...


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## wst3 (Sep 20, 2020)

Switching from Cakewalk/Sonar to Cubase is insanely difficult - hard to believe that two DAWs that sprung from MIDI sequencers can be this different. Harder yet (at least for me) is pinpointing exactly where they diverge. But I agree, I've not been able to make the switch.

When Gibson tanked Cakewalk I switched to Studio One, and I do like it a lot. I keep thinking about completely cutting ties with Sonar, but that familiarity is really difficult to give up. And with some of the recent updates I'm even considering abandoning Sonar Platinum completely (I have both Platinum and CwB installed at the moment - thank goodness disc space is so cheap!)


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## rudi (Sep 21, 2020)

Markrs said:


> can’t comment much on the difference as I only had a play around with cakewalk but stayed with reaper.
> 
> regarding the cost, they currently have a crossgrade from any DAW (though you might Want to check that) ongoing at plugin boutique https://www.pluginboutique.com/products/6549 which is only £153.03 until 30 September with code: f6460a6l
> 
> i often see it on sale on VI-C / KVR / Knobcloud for around similar prices or less


Has anyone else taken advantage of this?

At this price I thought I'd give it a chance, especially as I interested in the score editor facility.
First of all, being in the UK the price excludes VAT, so you'll have to factor in 

I went through the purchase process, got my serial number, and as per the instructions went to the Presonus website (I already use Notion) to register it.

However it shows up as Studio one 5 Artist not Professional - I am not sure why. (resolved - see update below!)
Maybe I need to do something else, as I wasn't asked for proof of purchase for the DAW I am crossgrading from. I am not too clear as what to do next.

I've raised a support ticket with Plugin Boutique to find out the next step.
They've got a large volume of queries to deal with at the moment, so it might take a little while.

I'll keep you updated when I find out.

*UPDATE*
I just heard back from support - they were sent a batch of serial numbers for the wrong product version! They apologised, and immediately udpated the serial number into my account. 
I registered it on the Presonus website and it worked straight away for the right version!
Just playing with the software now, and getting used to where everything is located, and what shortcuts to use (my muscle memory is based on REAPER with my custom shortcuts).
First impressions are favourable, and you do get a lot of plugins, FX, etc. for your money.
I am already impressed with the score editor (my main reason for buying Studio One) - it looks so much clearer and cleaner than REAPER.


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## widescreen (Sep 24, 2020)

Little update from me: I did not have the time to do anything of the tips for my problem in CbB mentioned in the early posts. But as I realized that I already have a Studio One 4 Artist as part of an audio interface, I grabbed an update to 5 Artist at JRRshop for $35.
When there is time over the next weeks (I'm a hobbyist with plenty of work in my main job and a family) I will catch up on it and also compare both programs.

Interesting to hear that the crossgrade to S1 Prof does not ask for any proof which other DAW you have. $150 is a lot better than $300.


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## SlHarder (Sep 24, 2020)

chillbot said:


> Don't let the "free" price tag deter you


As a long time user of Cakewalk I would encourage anyone who is starting out in midi to download and try Cakewalk by Bandlab. You have nothing to lose! You should adopt a mindset of exploring all the fantastic FREE resources that are available across the midi world.

The experience you gain for FREE will then focus your initial money outlays on virtual instruments that will best support your interests in music. 

Cakewalk is used by many professionals world wide. It has all the features and capabilities needed to help a new hobbyist or budding professional get a great start in music.


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## Villanao (Sep 24, 2020)

The one thing that prevents me from using CbB as my main DAW is its annoying zooming controls. It's essential that any software I use has a way of confortably zoom in and out. In REAPER, Reason, S1, or any other DAW (except for Mixcraft), you can zoom horizontally and vertically using a keystroke+mousewheel combination. Not in Cakewalk. You have to use the arrow keys or righ click+drag on the ruler area to zoom in and out vertically. Just this one little thing that disrupts my workflow and I can't get around because it's just SO annoying. If anyone can prove me wrong and show me a way to zoom vertically using the mousewheel+key, I would be very grateful.


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## SlHarder (Sep 24, 2020)

Villanao said:


> It's essential that any software I use has a way of confortably zoom in and out.


You didn't mention which Cakewalk window, track or piano roll, you wanted to zoom.

These are links to CbB docs on mousewheel zoom for track view. There is another doc section for piano roll view. Maybe these address your comment.






Cakewalk - SONAR Documentation - Displaying clips


Cakewalk - SONAR Documentation - Displaying clips




www.cakewalk.com





To zoom using the mouse wheel (Fast Zoom)
*
Hold down the ALT key and roll the mouse wheel forward to zoom in, backward to zoom out.
*
Hold down ALT+SHIFT to intensify mouse wheel zoom effect.
*
Hold down ALT+CTRL to adjust track scale (Track View Clips Pane only)
To select Fast Zoom options
1.
Click the Track view Options menu and choose Mouse Wheel Zoom Options.
2.
Select the intensity of the Zoom effect in Zoom Factor by using the spinners or manually entering a value.
3.
Select the vertical and horizontal Zoom focus.
4.
Check or uncheck Simultaneous Vertical and Horizontal Zoom.
The default is for Simultaneous Vertical and Horizontal Zoom to be checked. If you uncheck it, Fast Zoom exhibits the following behaviors.
*
ALT+Mouse Wheel zooms vertically
*
ALT+SHIFT+Mouse Wheel zooms faster vertically
*
CTRL+ALT+Mouse Wheel zooms horizontally
*
CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+Mouse Wheel zooms faster horizontally
5.
Click OK.


And

Mouse Wheel Zoom Options
The Mouse Wheel Zoom feature allows you to use your mouse wheel to control Zoom functions.
Zoom Factor
Set the intensity of the zoom. Horizontal and vertical zoom intensity can be adjusted independent of one another using the spinners or by manual entry.
Zoom In
Select whether the Zoom in action is centered at the cursor or the Now Time in horizontal Zoom, and select whether the Zoom in action is centered at the cursor or the Active Track in vertical Zoom.
Zoom Out
Select whether the Zoom out action is centered at the cursor or the Now Time in horizontal Zoom, and select whether the Zoom out action is centered at the cursor or the Active Track in vertical Zoom.
Simultaneous Horizontal and Vertical Zoom
Select the check box to make horizontal and vertical zoom simultaneous.


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## Villanao (Sep 24, 2020)

SlHarder said:


> You didn't mention which Cakewalk window, track or piano roll, you wanted to zoom.
> 
> These are links to CbB docs on mousewheel zoom for track view. There is another doc section for piano roll view. Maybe these address your comment.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the response but it's not giving me what I need. What I meant is the ability to zoom in and out vertically in the arranger window, where the audio and midi clips are. Another way of putting it is I need to resize all track panes simultaneously with a keystroke+mousewheel like I can in every other DAW. Thanlks again.


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## lychee (Sep 24, 2020)

Villanao said:


> Thanks for the response but it's not giving me what I need. What I meant is the ability to zoom in and out vertically in the arranger window, where the audio and midi clips are. Another way of putting it is I need to resize all track panes simultaneously with a keystroke+mousewheel like I can in every other DAW. Thanlks again.



Cakewalk zoom & navigation tutorial (from the old Sonar X2):


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## Villanao (Sep 24, 2020)

lychee said:


> Cakewalk zoom & navigation tutorial (from the old Sonar X2):




Thanks. Apparently why I want is not possible (change track height on all tracks simultaneously using the mousewheel). Pitty...


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## Tren (Sep 24, 2020)

I tried it. I personally found the UI to be over-modularized/overdesigned. The main menus have almost nothing in them. Most stuff is siphoned off to various sub menus within panels. This makes feature discovery more difficult, and I find it to be bad design. I think the documentation is very mediocre - not Samplitude bad, but definitely not great. The removal of the Context-Sensitive Help File was a horrible decision, IMO. There was a way to edit the registry to have the SONAR Help File work with it, but they disabled this in a later version...

I didn't find the PRV to be that great, the staff view is quite bad (often out of time with the audio during playback, renders some MIDI quite badly). You cannot nest folders in the arranger (they can add arranger tracks, but still haven't added folder nesting?). Video didn't perform well, for me, and CODEC options are extremely limited.

It's missing all of the good music theory tools that are in "modern" DAWs - in quotes because I think Cakewalk suffered from "tabled" development for a few years - putting it behind others in terms of feature progression while Gibson focused primarily on attracting users through bundle content deals; and that content doesn't come with CbB, which exposes this underlying misfortune.

No Chord Track, No Sampler Track, No Marker Track, No Tempo Track.

The Audio Editing is pretty basic, as well, but that's probably of no consequence here 

It has probably the worse marker system I've ever encountered in a DAW. Working with Tempo is terrible (generally not going to be a problem to people who do genres like EDM... definitely noticeable if you do Classical Compositions, which often have many tempo changes, ritardando, etc.). Have fun if you ever have to work with Drum Maps in this DAW.

Lastly, the user base is a big reason why I dropped it. You're basically beholden to the Cakewalk forums for support and discussion, and they have basically retaught me the value in paying for a product to have a direct support line to the company/developers. Feature Requests summarily dismissed as bloatware. Frequent insults towards "young" people and those who do genres of music not in vogue with the "old-timers." I couldn't bear it any longer.

So I paid for Cubase Pro and moved on with my life.

-----

Articulation Maps are nice, but there are several other areas in the DAW that are fairly underdeveloped (or don't exist) and would affect workflow for composers. These only seemed "palatable" to me because it cost $0. I'm not hurting, though, so I don't mind paying for better. That's what I ended up doing.


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## fourteentoone (Sep 24, 2020)

Composed and shipped the scores for Ori and the Blind Forest, Ori and the Will of the Wisps, Halo Infinite, ARK Survival Evolved + all DLC, Minecraft Expansion Packs (x6+ albums worth of material), Darksiders Genesis, and many many more on various versions of Cakewalk (SONAR or CbB) over the years. I use a customized version of Reaper sometimes as an alternate, but Cakewalk is - to me - incredibly efficient, only matched by Reaper in terms of CPU / VSTi handling, in my own experience.

Have used it both for composition, and also for mixing.

With regards to the UI, it's a matter of taste/preference. I don't find that it slows me down, but I am very used to it at this point. Don't really use the forums as I can usually figure things out myself. Don't understand the tempo comments by @Tren (no problems here) but one man's trash is another man's treasure. Perhaps I got used to bad design and can't see it.

Agreed that the video engine needs a lot of work, but again, the above projects I worked on, have a ton of cutscenes, and really, it's not a problem for me and I've probably just gotten used to things. Have not had playback problems here for a while. It used to be way worse than whatever it currently is.

Have tried other DAWs and am often underwhelmed by their inefficiencies / shortcomings. Ultimately, if you can produce good music on your DAW, it doesn't really matter what the DAW is. CbB is free, so it literally costs you nothing to try it out.


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## Tren (Sep 24, 2020)

I didn't imply that one couldn't compose in Cakewalk/SONAR. You could do it in ACID Pro if that's what you preferred. People compose on all manner of DAWs, so it isn't about a DAW being unusable for composition - taht is not the case, nor did I suppose it was the case. It's about how it compares objective (and subjectively, since personal preferences are impossible to ignore) to the competition.

Laundry list of past works is unnecessary. It doesn't negate these disparities, or any issues mentioned.

I simply stated it feel dated, somewhat "over-designed," and is missing a lot of conveniences that make work easier (and faster) in other DAWs. It feels like development slowed to a crawl for the better part of a decade, and is only now starting to pick up, but the priority on what features to implement (and in what order) still seems a bit random.

Of course, I tried it, cause it's free. One would have to be crazy not to try it before spending $300-600+ on another DAW. But, I wouldn't use it over something like Cubase or DP if money were not a concern. I'd argue Cubase has paid for itself, for me, though. It's actually shocking to see the difference in development between these two DAWs (both of them being fairly close in age).

Since I also produce other genres of music, and do a lot of music design, the feature disparities grow to quite a comprehensive list - for me (and what I need out of a DAW).

I'm really limiting my criticism, here, because this forum has a specific user base that may not be bothered with lacks in areas of the DAW they do not use (or care about).

The DAW seems comprehensive, but lots of things feel half-finished, or implemented in the quickest and dirtiest manner possible. That seems to be the common theme running across most actual reviews.


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## fourteentoone (Sep 24, 2020)

@Tren - you seem to assume I was only responding to you when in fact I was at first responding to the original post which suggested that commercial pros are only using the so-called big and paid DAWs, hence my list of commercial projects and to qualify my depth of knowledge and experience with the DAW (specifically referenced by original poster) on the DAW itself. While it is certainly not a mainstream DAW, was simply to illustrate that commercial projects both low and high profile - are happening on it. 

It doesn't invalidate any of your comments  - some of which I happen to not agree with, and that's fine. As stated, users can decide for themselves.


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## RSK (Sep 24, 2020)

There was a time when Cakewalk and Vision were the best sequencers, and recording multitrack audio on a computer was still a dream.

Odd that Gibson killed them both.


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## chillbot (Sep 24, 2020)

RSK said:


> There was a time when Cakewalk and Vision were the best sequencers, and recording multitrack audio on a computer was still a dream.


In 30+ years of Cakewalk, my only unfaithfulness was my sordid and unregretful affair with Vision... until it's bitter demise sent me limping back to Cakewalk.


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## SlHarder (Sep 25, 2020)

Just to close an info loop.

Here is a quote from a reply to Villano posting the same comment about zooming on discuss.cakewalk.com.

", I am not aware of a keystroke + mouse wheel that will vertically zoom all tracks in a project, however you can assign keystrokes to zoom in/out all tracks in Preferences. I just assigned 'Zoom In All Tracks Vertical' to 'U' and 'Zoom Out All Tracks Vertical' to 'Alt + U', works very well. "


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## Villanao (Sep 25, 2020)

SlHarder said:


> Just to close an info loop.
> 
> Here is a quote from a reply to Villano posting the same comment about zooming on discuss.cakewalk.com.
> 
> ", I am not aware of a keystroke + mouse wheel that will vertically zoom all tracks in a project, however you can assign keystrokes to zoom in/out all tracks in Preferences. I just assigned 'Zoom In All Tracks Vertical' to 'U' and 'Zoom Out All Tracks Vertical' to 'Alt + U', works very well. "



Yes, may not be what I wanted but there’s definitely enough ways of doing it. Will see if I can get used to it.


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