# Anyone Using An i7 5775C?



## chimuelo (Oct 27, 2015)

Cyrstal Well L4 cache can be used for the CPU or the Iris Pro GFX.

Years ago I remeber Core Duo CPUs upped thier cache size which really benefitted DAWs.

I am hoping this 128MBs of L4 cache does the same.
Also seems the stock 1.8GHz speed of the cache can be overclocked using a multiplier.
Asus gamer geeks post impressive gains.

Trying to confirm my suspicions.

Thanks


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## chimuelo (Nov 1, 2015)

Found a Sonar user that has the i7 5775C and claims more plug ins that are time based FX.
Explained that cache is the reason.
Made sense as guys with AMD rigs 10-12 years ago claimed their reverbs and delays were more numerous.
Also back then Algorithmix had insanely good plug ins.
But a couple of EQs and thier Split Compressor brought an Intel to its knees.
The AMD builds were using twice as many.

So personally I already have 2 great running Z97 rigs and while tempted will pass on this recent CPU.
128mb L4 cache sounds great.
But Skylake refresh due out by CES in Janurary will have 2 x new desktop versions where 64mb will be available.
128mb versions are BGA only.
Love to see the laptops those will be in.


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## dtonthept (Nov 1, 2015)

Innnnnnterestinnnnng!!!!


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## chimuelo (Nov 8, 2015)

Works great. Testing it out at stock speeds.
With an i7 4790 stock vrs. the i7 5775C it outperforms already with a 700mhz deficit.
Havent tried samples as thats hard to tell since I'm using NVME devices.
But usually on Zebra2 HZ I get few voices with 2 x Diva Filters.
Now I can get many voices and I havent even overclocked it.
Dont think I want to as I already succeeded.
But tomorrow will try as many instances of Zebra2 HZ and Omni 2.1 as allowed.
No need really just curious.

But gamers say this CPU is better than the i7 6700K as they can get 1GHz where as the 6700s only get 4.5GHz, a 500mhz jump.
It definately gives Z97 users an X99 or C600 experience.
I believe IPC has peaked out and CPU Cache is the way forward until 10nm.
37C temps with such performance is worth the extra 25 bucks.
Got this from a music store in NYC.
Guess they know whats up....

Newegg wont be carrying it since they dropped from 521 to higher 300s.


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## synthetic (Nov 9, 2015)

J, what kind of polyphony are you getting on your i7 4790 system? How many Kontakt instances/channels loaded? (Also, what happened to DAWbench?)


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## chimuelo (Nov 9, 2015)

1600 iirc running @ 4.5GHz.
But the CPU was so hot I stayed stock.
Like the 4790. But noticed using my Zebra2 HZ Dual Diva presets were trapped in low poly mode.
On 2011 vrs. 3 rigs I got full poly?
Assumed it was Quad RAM or the chipset.
Then noticed the cache is larger on the 6 core CPU.
@3.3GHz the 5775C outperforms the 4790.
It's safe to assume additional IPC comes from the 128mb L4 cache.
Overclocking the 5775C tonight but must learn how to undervolt the L4 cache in the BIOS using Ring Bus.
Sweet spot is 3.7GHz with L4 cache @ 2GHz.
Tricky stuff since the CPU cache gets overclocked in BCLK.
Reason for 3.7Ghz is 80watts.
These low watt CPUs are the high binned products.
Watts and heat run parallel and it's a 1U build.
But what a little beast this is at 65 watts and 3.3Hz.

DAWbench was a great resource.
The LASS/Thonex Cubendo and Kontakt tests.
Even there we'd see AMD out performing Intel due to CPU cache.

I miss that forum of cackling Hens.


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## Mystic (Nov 9, 2015)

Am I seeing this right that 5775C only supports 32Gigs of RAM?
http://ark.intel.com/products/88040/Intel-Core-i7-5775C-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_70-GHz?q=5775C


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## chimuelo (Nov 10, 2015)

Yeah this was pretty much thier last 16 lane 32GB CPU.
Its a great upgrade if you want to just get more performance without springing for a new rig.
In fact the only benefit of the Z170 is 20 lanes and 64GBs.
Pretty much another upgrade via chipset.
Next time I upgrade iit willl be to a large cache CPU.
They keep avoiding single thresd improvements.


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## chimuelo (Nov 11, 2015)

But the Z97 is the first and last chipset to allow M.2 SSDs direct connections to the CPU.
Explains why my rig is so Damn fast.
The i7 5775C helps but my M.2 and U.2 connected Intel 750 make no stops at the chipset. The round trip is avoided.
New Z170 chipsets force all requests to CPU to go through the chipset.
Think we got lucky with ASRock Z97 Extreme boards.


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## woodslanding (Nov 30, 2015)

Is the extreme 6 the only board that supports this nifty shortcut? Reason I ask: I can only fit an ITx board in my rig... Is ASRock likely to come out with an ITX board that does this? Unless this is it: 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asrock-x99e-itx-ac-motherboard,4127.html
_
The CPU’s leftover PCIe 3.0 lanes aren’t completely wasted either, as the X99E-ITX/ac connects four of them to an M.2 slot. The trip gets a little stranger at this point because, according to Device Manager in Windows, the secondary network controller is connected to the CPU’s PCIe 3.0 pathway. We’ve heard that Haswell-E processors can support up to five devices, and connecting this to the CPU does free up some of the chipset’s DMI bandwidth_

Is this what you are talking about? Or am I confusing oranges and lemons? I'm struggling to get up-to-date on the new tech, not having shopped for a system in several years.

And on a related note: If I were to build a system around a single m.2 drive, would you recommend the Samsung or the Intel? I'm using a 256gb samsung currently, so I could manage with either drive. Of course, I'm just now getting into orchestration.... but I guess I'm not going to try to run those libraries in my live rig even if I do start going nuts keyswitching at home.


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## chimuelo (Nov 30, 2015)

There's the Z97E ITX but it's a 2X speed which means it has to go through the Chipset.
I wanted a Z170 badly but too many spikes in wattage too much DPC latency just too damn new and over hyped for me.
If you have to use ITX that X99 would be a monster performer.
What apps are you using live and what chassis do you use?


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## woodslanding (Nov 30, 2015)

My chassis right now is just a Mac mini. I'm not sure what box I would (or even could) use with a new ITX build. I need to measure the space inside. The chassis might just be my keyboard.... The mini sits behind the babyface on the right. Are there reasons for having your computer parts inside a metal box beyond just protecting them? Grounding issues, maybe? There's good ventilation--speaker grille cloth on the back, slots on the front, and I think that I could squeeze an ultra low profile cooler in, like the Noctua NH-L9i--whatever it is, it needs to be quiet. The circuit board you see there has gone away since I changed the bottom controller. The space is at minimum 2x8x9 inches, but there might be a little more depth. And there are nearby spaces that could fit a power supply. I think I could get an Alienware alpha in there, for example. But I haven't really looked for an ITX chassis yet to see if there is one out there that would fit.





For software, I've built a host in Usine which looks like this:





I am in the process of rebuilding it in Max 7, but for now it hosts 5 instances of Kontakt (one with specific mappings for the drawbars) 4 instances of Reaktor, and 2 each of Massive and Guitarrig. The max version will be much more dynamic, allowing different sets of vsts per preset. For now, this configuration is pretty hardwired.

There are 4 effects sends. For patching speed, each vst goes to one fx buss, and my faders go from 100% dry to 100% wet. The effects can be sent to each other as well.

What's nice is that I can set this up in a studio in five minutes, and be immediately layering sounds 4 to 6 deep. I can get access to 512 presets for each channel with 2 presses on the touchscreen. Big buttons so I can patch with one hand while I'm playing with the other. I run my own versions of Prism and Steampipe in Reaktor, as well as a delay I built with a swept NI ladder filter in the feedback path, which is controlled by the knobs on the Right.

I would love to cut my latency down a bunch....I'm running 256 right now, with crackles only on alternate tuesdays. And when the max version is up and running, I'll have a lot more (cpu draining) options.

What processor would you recommend for that X99?

-eric


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## chimuelo (Dec 1, 2015)

That's awesome.
Must be a pleasure building your own rigs.
So it seems you need a fast low latency solution.
Stay away from ASRock Z170 until they can get around thier DPC latency.
But right now Z97 and X99 builds will be based on mature proven designs.

My builds are low powered fast and noisy.
You could a use 5600 CPU on the X99 and probably try using new fans that are using hydraulic sleeves
That are extra powerful and quiet.

Do post back as I love watching DIYs coming together.

If you can use a larger motherboard with just one M.2.
Supermicro has some excellent boards for i7 or Xeon.

I have 4 different M.2s. Plextor Samsung 951 and 950 Pro and Intel 750 400gb.
The Intel is the ultimate performer.
Even if you use 2 lanes instead of 4 you still get ultra fast access and random performance.


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## woodslanding (Dec 1, 2015)

I'll think on this. So you would not see the need for a metal box to put the mobo in?

I looked at the benchmarks here:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

The only 5600 I see is the 5600u, and that is a slow cpu. Is the 5600 too new to be listed there? The mini's CPU benches in the 6k range, and I was hoping to get to 11-12k with this build..... 4790 or 5820.... 5600u is in the 4k range.

I will post back for sure. But with small kids at home, everything happens very slowly! z170 may well be mature by the time I carve time out of the schedule.


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## chimuelo (Dec 1, 2015)

Typo. I meant 5800.
I do suggest a metal chassis.
Doesn't have to be a rackmount.
Lian Li has a sweet looking ITX Box.
I'd love to see this when your done.
Maybe check into the discontinued Neko to see how their controllers housed motherboards.
If you do get a rack check out Travla.
They have dual itx chassis that are pretty specd out...


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## woodslanding (Dec 1, 2015)

This case will fit in my keyboard:

http://www.mini-box.com/M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure

It has a lot of ventilation holes, which means it can take advantage of my airflow, and any fans I put on the outside of the case. But if I don't need a graphics card (do I?--do all the intel cpus have some nominal graphics?) or a 2.5" ssd, or any riser cards, there may be room for a fan inside the case as well.

On further reading, it is not clear if this MOBO can actually take a stock cooler. The only one that I have seen that has a prayer of fitting in this space is the Noctua NH-L9i, and its not clear that you could put it on this board, and even if you could, whether you could still access the m.2 slot.

It's looking sort of impossible.


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## woodslanding (Dec 1, 2015)

Ahh Neko CONTROLLERS! Yeah they have a ton of space inside those. I'm way more frugal with space. But I can't find any pics of the interior anyway.

'Neko Case' did not turn up ANY computer links


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## chimuelo (Dec 1, 2015)

Intel GPUs are pretty sweet IMHO.
They sucked when I got a Clarksdale CPU years back, total loss.
Since then each new version is impressive and the Iris Pro I recently got is especially nifty.
Customizable like a large Discrete Card.

I use Dynatron HSF and CoolJag HSF.
Both low profile and 1150/51/55 LGA only.
But check out the 2 companies and see if they have 2011 LGA HSFs, low profile.

Don't really need these giant coolers unless you plan to overclock.
At stock speeds there are plenty of passive coolers using no fan and copper only.

Wort case scenario just get a bigger box like I mentioned above.
But I do like small efficient solutions.
M.2s and GPUs on the LGA Package like my i7 5775C are incredible gifts for guys wanting
a very small footprint.


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## woodslanding (Dec 3, 2015)

So I have a few more questions now, if you don't mind:

What latency are you running at, and how high can you run the cpu before you get dropouts?

Also, it looks like the intel SSD is a PCIe? I thought it was an m.2 for some reason...

So maybe I don't need a board with an m.2 after all? I don't have anything I want to put in a pcie slot. I guess the space could be useful for something--like fans.

But seems like the samsung m.2 is a good performer...?

Overclock.com says that the noctua cooler will fit on this board. Only question is if it can keep a 5820 cool. I'll look into the coolers you mentioned.

I'm also wondering about the tradeoffs between buss speeds, cpu speed/number of cores, and mobo latency. This board:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8773/asus-maximus-vii-impact-review-premium-gaming-z97-in-miniitx


has an M.2 x4 slot, and a latency of 29 microseconds. Seems like if I'm looking to run at low latency, I'd be able to push my cpu a lot harder with this board before getting dropouts. The asrock 99 board is respectable at 100 microseconds, but that's more than 3 times as long.

--------------
Okay, I finally went and read up on the original topic subject!! I now see the crazy logic of the 5775c. Lower power slower chip with a huge L2 cache. Mistakenly optimized for audio in a tiny box? Now I see how you can contemplate passive cooling.

Does the cache mean you can push the cpu harder before you get dropouts? Or does the same set of plugs just tax the cpu less? Anyway, this chip seems like a much saner one to put in the tiny space I'm talking about, heat-wise. I guess I need to verify that it can be booted via NVMe on this board.

What exactly is the advantage of the Intel drive over the Samsumg? Maybe I'm down to just debating which drive to install! This mobo/chip combo seems like a really good one for me. I guess what I'm missing that you have is the quad ram? But I thought you had an x97 board?

----------------
Or maybe I should just wait for skylake. I'm not in that much of a hurry. Do you think skylake will have the big L2 cache?


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## chimuelo (Dec 3, 2015)

Intel 750 2.5" SSD uses the M.2 slot to attach the U2 connector to. The cable then goes out to a tray in my 1U.
It sits on the left side of this chassis, dual intake fans sit dead center to draw in air, then the other is my 1U HSF combo.
But Intel originally made the SSD for PCI-e only.
Not much use in a 1U as I already use the chassis PCI backplane slot for the PCI-e 1X XITE-1 DSP Rack connector card. Sits horizontally using a riser card/ribbon.



image hosting free
What are you going to do that needs this kind of speed and power though?
If it's just for live work I can save you a bundle as I have built Kontakt only rigs, Kontakt PLAY VSTi rigs, etc.etc.
I have 3 rigs up and running with 4 spares.
Pre production has one, rehearsal studio one and the i7 5775C is my practice home rig until it proves itself worthy to remain among us.


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## chimuelo (Dec 3, 2015)

And let me clear things up on the audio side a little.
I NEVER get dropouts since I use an XITE-1 DSP Rack. It crunches the big numbers, this is also why I can run low watt rigs where streaming is the concern.
But I had to get Zebra2 HZ and I do not like limited polyphony when using dual DIVA Filters. It pisses me off.
So Zebra2 HZ needed a jolt and since it's not like Omni where a faster CPU fixes things, or an M.2 loads dual live patches instantly.
I had to try a different CPU like a Xeon but that meant blowing tons of cash on finicky RAM or UDIMMs.
I got the 57C and immediately was pleased.
Since then I overclocked it to 3.7GHz and stopped @ 53C. I go by temperature and heat dissipation since that's what causing audio dropouts, not the interrupt requests.

Another reason for the 57C was I liked the incredible load times and speed when editing I get with the Z97/M.2 4X SSDs and it's direct connections to the CPU.
Seems like the Z170 has new DMI and everything goes through that protocol now.
I am sure its fast but again more stalling tactics from Intel because they can't get their 14nm build to be as good.
When they go to 10nm I will be just as skeptical of those sneaky bastards then too.
Their last great CPU is the 57C, before that the 3770K was ummm-so-so.
It was the i7 920-960 and the i7 2500/2600 CPUs that were really excellent audio chips.
Since then we're getting bent over from a lack of competition.
And the Iris Pro 6200 is a monster GPU.
This was Intels main priority to kill AMDs only strength, they succeeded in that endeavor.
Now there's no competition in the consumer market segment, so they will bull shit us on release dates, leak information worse than the Obama administration, you get the picture.

Watch out for IBM Power 8 CPUs.
They seem to love large Cache too.


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## woodslanding (Dec 5, 2015)

I remember researching all about those riser card adaptors when I was trying to put together a system like that a while back. I still had my RME with the pcmcia card and needed a pci slot for that. Nobody was supporting the format anymore.... Finally bought the babyface. But that multiface lasted for 10 years! Eventually I just decided to buy a mac mini, figuring I'd get better latency from well-integrated mac hardware than I had with my 4 year old Dell laptop (also quad-core i7). But the two perform virtually identically running my system. Not impressed.

In my tiny space, I think m.2 makes a lot of sense.

As for the speed. I get dropouts at 40%, and it's pretty easy to get layered deep enough between the two keyboards to where I exceed that number. My host chews up a *lot* of processing power--it's not optimized like it could be if I coded it in C, which I am not competent to do. And I'd like to cut my latency to half, if not a quarter.

My first upgrade did not improve things as much as I hoped.... my old lenovo core2duo laptop had sub-70-microsecond latency, and I could run at over 60% cpu. Moving to a quadcore i7 didn't improve things nearly as much as I hoped. I couldn't quite halve the latency, so I ended up adding features instead.

So mostly, if I upgrade I want to feel like I've really upgraded. And whatever people say, I think I can tell the difference even between 128 and 64 sample latency. There's definitely a huge difference between 256 and 128.

And there's always going to a higher sample rate or bit depth if I'm actually drowning in power! 

I don't know how much more efficient the Max/Msp implementation of the host might be. Maybe a lot. Maybe none. But that's 4-6 months off yet, I think. Lots of rearchitecting to do. I'd like to have something faster in the meantime.


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## woodslanding (Dec 5, 2015)

Had a look at Scope. Very interesting product. Definitely NOT a way to save money at $5K. Not in my budget....

But I am very inclined to put together a build around that 5775c. What are you waiting on before putting it into service? Just more hours of test time, or are there specific questions you haven't answered yet?

That Dark Zebra soundset is lovely!


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## woodslanding (Dec 5, 2015)

Well, looks like this is no time to buy a 5775c--they are selling for well over list price!


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## woodslanding (Dec 6, 2015)

Well, it is looking like they are pretty much straight up unavailable. And the guy at micro-center (who may or may not know what he is talking about) said they are not going to make any more.

Don't suppose your source has any more of those? I was pretty psyched about this build. Guess I can wait for the low- power skylake chips and buy a 170 board.... or maybe I should be investigating AMD? I really know nothing about them.


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## Elephant (Dec 7, 2015)

There are some on Amazon


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## chimuelo (Dec 7, 2015)

Musicians are buying them from B & H Photo.
I already decided I'll be getting a Xeon for the bigger rig in 2016.
SoC BGA with 64mbps L4 cache and the Iris Pro 6300.
Probably in late January.
If I ever decide to become a composer and stop chasing the buck I'll have a Master with 6 x powerful Slaves...
Here's the 8U Chassis from Senzhen that's made for BGA boards.
Can't stand the color though. These are 10 year stock brand new surplus.
Water proof membrane for the QWERTYs and Touchscreen.


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## woodslanding (Dec 7, 2015)

B&H doesn't have any in stock and no clue if they'll get any more. But I guess I'll get on their waiting list.....

Amazon does have a few, but they are almost $200 above list! Hard to decide if I want one that bad.


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## chimuelo (Dec 7, 2015)

Once gamer guys got a hold of these it was a feeding frenzy.
Not many CPUs can overclock an extra 1.1GHz since the i7 2600K.

Don't pay more than 4 bones for one of these.
I'd wait for the new Greenlow 64MB L4 cache on the C236 chips.
Supermicro has a board already w/ better DMI, extra PCI-e lanes and a 4x M.2.


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## woodslanding (Dec 7, 2015)

makes sense. Well I got in line at B&H. I'm gonna let the ...um.... chips fall where they may. I will build it if it comes. Otherwise I'll check back in a few months. 

Just got a new touchscreen, Acer. It actually works right with the mini, which my Dell never did.... so I've got something to be excited about for now. 

Built a very sturdy hinged vesa-mount for it out of an old xlr panel from a studio I work at:








That Senzhen chassis is crazy! Okay, after further reading, SoC and BGA is even crazier.

Well, enough of this, back to orchestrating.

cheers,
-eric


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## chimuelo (Dec 9, 2015)

Seems Intel is going to be making more.
Don't sweat it.
Japanese guys, probably gamers, are feverish for these.
Retailers are selling them to US customers since there are plenty of guys buying them at higher prices, and are falling for the scams of "In Stock" while not being able to receive a Chip from them until mid January.

Make sure you get a Motherboard that supports these 57Cs. With ASRock mobo you'll see that Ring Bus refers to the L4 Cache, which needs to be undervolted/underclocked since it won't operate above 2000MHz. Default is 1800MHz. Guys OC'ing are discovering that their CPU seems to be locked. It isn't. When the cache gets overclocked too much it makes the CPU dive in performance back down to 3.3-3.5..

Rig looks great, love those old Pultec looking knobs too.

Have a great Holiday Season.


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## chimuelo (Dec 9, 2015)

Here's my 2016 rig.
57C w/ Z97 Extreme 6
MX-100 OS+Apps/750 U.2 for samples
FS1R/SE-1X/XITE-1 and BLA ADAT
HX-3 Hammond Module
Don't need the LCD, QWERTY or mouse after boot.
But leave the LCD with waveform/spectrum plug in on.
Shows waveforms as I play. Folks on hallucinogenics love it.


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## woodslanding (Dec 9, 2015)

Happy holidays to you as well. Thanks so much for all your tech help!

I like the eye-candy. I've thought about putting in some LEDs behind my grillcloth on the back of the keyboard, but haven't got round to it....

I was thinking of using the MSI Z97i AC motherboard with a PCIe/M.2 adapter in the slot. Do you think that would work? AFAIK The only mobo with a full length m.2 slot built-in is the ASUS ROG I mentioned earlier. I cannot find the height of it's weird add-on power sub-board anywhere, but I suspect I won't be able to find a case for it that will fit it in the space I have.... the MSI has very low latency, and MSI says they support NVMe boot for all Z97 boards.

Here's a little of me in action on the rig. I take a solo at the 2' 30" mark....



cheers,
-eric


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## woodslanding (Dec 9, 2015)

Finally dug something up on the ASUS rog maximus VII:

_Being part of the ROG line, the Maximus VI Impact uses an all-digital, eight phase DIGI+ III Power Controller paired to 60amp 'Blackwing' chokes and 10K-hour 10K Black Metallic solid capacitors. As an added benefit, *ASUS’ design is only as tall as the rear I/O ports*_

Looks like I will be able to fit it in after all.

A modest amount of future proofing in case I want to add some other PCIe card or drive down the line....

-e


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## chimuelo (Dec 9, 2015)

Bloody lucky you. Working with real horns too.
Nice percussive chops on the Hammond parts too.
I heard other parts but want to listen more thoroughly as I don't wear my IEMs while driving.
Great to see more performers here.
In our struggle to use hardware native and DSP sharing info is vital...

Chingalay


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## woodslanding (Dec 9, 2015)

Check out the other videos from that concert. There's some decent finger drumming, although I can tell my latency is too high. And some interesting sound design stuff on the non-live videos too....

Tried running 128 for a while today, but too many pops and crackles. But timing feels so much better! I don't know if there is anything else I can do to optimize this system. I'll see if there aren any newer drivers out there.

Hey if you have an install script or a slipstreamed ISO you use for windows on your machines I would pay good money for it. I assume you are running win10 these days?


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## woodslanding (Dec 18, 2015)

Man, there are three itx boards with low latency, according to anandtech, and all three are rare as hen's teeth, and/or selling for twice list....

Do you think they will be making more of these MOBOs once another round of broadwell chips comes out? Any thoughts?

ASUS rog Maximus Impact VII
MSI Z97i AC
Gigabyte GA-Z97N-WIFI


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