# Is anyone here using a notation program to make their mockups?



## Virtual Virgin (Sep 11, 2018)

If so, which programs are "performing" the best?
Are you using them as a standalone, or in conjunction with your DAW?


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## Rodney Money (Sep 11, 2018)

Before I switched to Cubase for rendering I got Finale to do this:


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## d.healey (Sep 11, 2018)

I use notation to create my compositions but not for my mockups. If you're going to be giving the music to musicians then the output you get from a score writer is fine, but if the end result is going to be created using virtual instruments the performance you will get from a score writer can't compete with what you can create in a DAW.


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## muk (Sep 11, 2018)

Virtual Virgin said:


> Are you using them as a standalone, or in conjunction with your DAW?



Nope, neither nor. As David wrote, the audio output of each and every notation program is far behind what can be achieved with sample libraries in a DAW. The best you can do with notation programs is with Arne Wallander's NotePerformer in my opinion. 

https://www.noteperformer.com/

Stunning piece of software, and it's comparably inexpensive. It really lets you hear if what you wrote would work with real instruments. For me it's an invaluable tool for composing. For mockups I still reach for my DAW, though.


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## jamieboo (Sep 14, 2018)

I write all my orchestral mockups in Cubase's Score Editor. I am ridiculous.


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## ptram (Sep 15, 2018)

Rodney Money said:


> Before I switched to Cubase for rendering I got Finale to do this:



Rodney, while not as realistic as required by a final production, this mockup is incredibly convincing. Was this also due to the Human Performance algorhythms of Finale?

Is there a reason you eventually switched to a DAW? And, do you think that separation between written and played notes in Dorico could have helped you staying in the notation software?

Paolo


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## Rodney Money (Sep 15, 2018)

ptram said:


> Rodney, while not as realistic as required by a final production, this mockup is incredibly convincing. Was this also due to the Human Performance algorhythms of Finale?
> 
> Is there a reason you eventually switched to a DAW? And, do you think that separation between written and played notes in Dorico could have helped you staying in the notation software?
> 
> Paolo


It was a mixture of the human playback feature in Finale and layering the articulations such as using shorts for accents and cimbasso for tuba accents. I switched to a DAW because I am extremely expressive when I play live which Finale cannot capture. I felt like Finale was playing my mock-ups, not me, so I switch to DAW so I could play everything in live like this:


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## Vik (Sep 15, 2018)

> Is anyone here using a notation program to make their mockups?



Yes, 13:
https://vi-control.net/community/th...program-for-work-with-sample-libraries.73407/


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## Maximvs (Sep 15, 2018)

jamieboo said:


> I write all my orchestral mockups in Cubase's Score Editor. I am ridiculous.


Hi Jamie, if you don't mind me asking... are you aware of any course that is specific on learning Cubase Score editor, I have always found this powerful part of Cubase neglected by people who teach Cubase... I think that a specific course on the score editor would be very popular... Cheers, Max T.


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## bryla (Sep 15, 2018)

When I do arrangements or compositions for a concert the artist or producer wants a track for approval or for rehearsal. I write it all in Sibelius so I just use the Noteperformer sounds for the output.


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## jamieboo (Sep 15, 2018)

Massimo said:


> Hi Jamie, if you don't mind me asking... are you aware of any course that is specific on learning Cubase Score editor, I have always found this powerful part of Cubase neglected by people who teach Cubase... I think that a specific course on the score editor would be very popular... Cheers, Max T.


I'm afraid I am not aware of any such course. But I agree that it is a rather neglected element in terms of available tutorial resources.
I also gather that it is generally not that well regarded by people who know their score editors!
I only use it out of habit and for reasons connected with my silly workflow. I use mouse to enter notes on the stave, note by note - I do not play things in.
But I do not really read music.
So as I am positioning the note, I need to hear all potential notes as I hover over them over the stave. When I hear the note I need, I release the mouse button.
For this rather unwieldy process to work best for me I need to be able to have the whole range of chromatic notes available for me right there as I'm hovering over the stave. But pretty much every other 'proper' notation package I've tried requires a chosen key signature - after which hovering over the stave only sounds the diatonic notes of that chosen scale. Sure you can enter a note and flatten or sharpen it after if necessary but it just doesn't work for me. I need to have the full chromatic range available to me immediately as I position the note.


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## Popslaw (Sep 15, 2018)

I used to do everything in Sibelius before switching to Cubase. It can be tedious to get decent results, but in some ways I still prefer the work flow to that of Cubase. Here are a few examples of Sibelius-only mock-ups. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTg2bEXhii0 (In a Village)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfbd4EAJ5ng (In a Mosque)


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## Virtual Virgin (Sep 15, 2018)

Popslaw said:


> I used to do everything in Sibelius before switching to Cubase. It can be tedious to get decent results, but in some ways I still prefer the work flow to that of Cubase. Here are a few examples of Sibelius-only mock-ups.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTg2bEXhii0 (In a Village)
> 
> ...



These are quite impressive with Sibelius. Is this with Note Performer?


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## Popslaw (Sep 15, 2018)

Virtual Virgin said:


> These are quite impressive with Sibelius. Is this with Note Performer?



Thank you very much. 

No, all notes were entered by point-and-click with mouse into the score. It required quite a lot of tweaking of nearly every note to get the timing and dynamics to sound remotely realistic.


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## Maximvs (Sep 16, 2018)

jamieboo said:


> I'm afraid I am not aware of any such course. But I agree that it is a rather neglected element in terms of available tutorial resources.
> I also gather that it is generally not that well regarded by people who know their score editors!
> I only use it out of habit and for reasons connected with my silly workflow. I use mouse to enter notes on the stave, note by note - I do not play things in.
> But I do not really read music.
> ...


Thanks for your kind reply and feedback... Cheers, Max T.


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## Mackieguy (Nov 2, 2018)

Depends on the score. If it's really orchestral in nature then I kinda cheat a little bit. I'll do the initial mockup in Sibelius/Dorico (using Dorico more and more as it develops) and map it to a good, general library. Right now, I'm all about using Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra as a great basic library. By using a notation app, I find it a lot easier to get the writing done more efficiently as I can see it in a more "musical" manner, especially as I'll print stuff out and scribble notes in by hand and then go back to the computer and enter in what I've written. It can be really circular but it keeps me in a musical frame of mind. It allows me to set basic dynamics, switch between Solo, a2, a6, etc. all that stuff. Once the notes are more or less complete, THEN I'll move over to Cubase, import the MIDI from Sibelius/Dorico and start doing deep level programming from there using a multitude of libraries, articulations on separate tracks, FX, final mix, etc.

If I'm combining orchestra with other stuff, I'll still use Sibelius for the orch. as it can tempo-lock via rewire to Cubase. I'll put the Spitfire orchestral elements in Sibelius and other stuff (soft synths, guitars, screams, bleeps, bloops, etc. all going direct to Cubase). Rewire gets it all to play together.

But if there's minimal orchestra in the piece then I'm pretty much completely within Cubase all the way to final mix.

Hope this makes some kind of sense.


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