# Just got an email... CD BABY ALPHA assumes my publishing?



## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

Without any action on my end I just received an email stating that CD BABY ALPHA is to receive 100% of the publisher royalties of my work even though I own the master recordings of my music 100%.

Did anyone else get an email like this?


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## Daryl (Feb 13, 2016)

Unless you've already agreed to that, they can't.


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

Daryl said:


> Unless you've already agreed to that, they can't.



I mean I signed up to CD Baby for them to distribute the work online.

Or does this mean I am assigning them as 100% publisher so that they pay my publishing and not ASCAP. Anyway I'll probably speak with a lawyer but didn't know if this was a "new thing" that everyone was aware of.


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## Daryl (Feb 13, 2016)

No, you have to agree and sign that they become the publisher. If they are just selling your music, then all they are is a distributor. That may cover owning your publishing, but only if you've agreed to it, and that doesn't sound likely to me.


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

This is the email I received from ASCAP...

_We are in receipt of CD BABY ALPHA MUSIC's letter dated 2/8/16 indicating that CD BABY ALPHA MUSIC (herein after, the Assignee) is to administer RYAN STRONG MUSIC's (herein after, the Assignor) interest in specific works as indicated in the agreement. Unless we are advised to the contrary, our records have been marked accordingly effective with the upcoming Publishing Distribution (3rd Quarter 2015 performances, March 2016 Publisher Distribution).

As administrator, the Assignee is entitled to receive the publisher royalties for the specific works as indicated in the agreement. All correspondence, statements and checks for these works will be sent to the Assignee.

Should this agreement be terminated, the Society must be notified in a timely manner. If either party contests the administration or termination, the Society will treat the matter in accordance with our Disputed Claims Procedures which can be found on ascap.com under ASCAP Governing Documents.
_


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

_As administrator, the Assignee is entitled to receive the publisher royalties_​
wut


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## Daryl (Feb 13, 2016)

So if you didn't agree to this, take it up with both CD Baby and ASCAP.


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

Yeah I definitely did not agree to this it's just amazing that they can go ahead and assume this.


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## RiffWraith (Feb 13, 2016)

Agree w/Daryl here, BUT -



ryanstrong said:


> I mean I signed up to CD Baby for them to distribute the work online.



Are you sure the fine print didn't say something like:

_If you allow CD Baby to distribute your work online, you are agreeing to CD Baby becoming your publisher_

- in legalese, of course.


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## Daryl (Feb 13, 2016)

So another thing to check is that CD Baby isn't collecting them on your behalf. It's possible that they might be marketing your music, getting placements and collecting income for you. So they do this? Have you asked them to?

BTW, what is Alpha? Is it your record label?


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

Over a year ago I signed up for CD Baby to simply distribute my music online so iTunes/Amazon/Spotify etc. I would have thought CD Baby was more common around here.

Anyway no Alpha is not my record label, actually I don't know what Alpha is I assumed CD BABY ALHPA is just their legal name.

The thing is I have been receiving royalties from the music that has been distributed by CD BABY from ASCAP for awhile now..... I dont know why this has changed.

This is why I posted... Didn't know if it was like a "new thing" that everyone was questioning.


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

Response from ASCAP...

_CD Baby will collect royalties obo your publishing entity, and then distribute them to you directly. If you have questions about your agreement terms, please contact CD Baby directly. _
_
I_ just don't know why this is coming out right now as it's never been like this... ASCAP has always distributed royalties from the results of cdbaby distribution services.


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## Daryl (Feb 13, 2016)

A quick search elicited this post from a couple of years ago:



I would contact CD Baby direct and find out what is going on. The last thing you want to do is make them the Publishers, because they could mean that they have rights to your income that you don't even know about.


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## José Herring (Feb 13, 2016)

Wow. Sounds like they are just outright stealing the music. I don't even think that is legal. Did you opt in to some sort of song promotion?


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## José Herring (Feb 13, 2016)

ryanstrong said:


> I mean I signed up to CD Baby for them to distribute the work online.
> 
> Or does this mean I am assigning them as 100% publisher so that they pay my publishing and not ASCAP. Anyway I'll probably speak with a lawyer but didn't know if this was a "new thing" that everyone was aware of.



Sorry I'm still getting use to this "new" forum format as I don't spend much time on it and I didn't see this.

Yes, you just gave them your publishing. It must of been in the terms of your distribution deal. 

Personally I would never do this. For CD baby it's a numbers game. If they distribute a million songs and get $10 in royalties from each song it is a huge haul for them. For us it's just $10. Which isn't worth it. 

If you can get out of this distribution deal I would do it immediately.


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## José Herring (Feb 13, 2016)

ryanstrong said:


> Response from ASCAP...
> 
> _CD Baby will collect royalties obo your publishing entity, and then distribute them to you directly. If you have questions about your agreement terms, please contact CD Baby directly.
> 
> I_ just don't know why this is coming out right now as it's never been like this... ASCAP has always distributed royalties from the results of cdbaby distribution services.


This means that CD Baby is now your subpublisher. They collect all the publishing, take a percentage of it, then distribute the rest to you.

It could work out well if there's some actual money involved.

What you need to find out now is what percentage do they take, when do they distribute. And then keep track of the income they collect through ASCAP. On your statement it will read $0.00 to you, but it will give the amount sent to CD Baby as your subpublisher.

Also, a subpublisher should in fact be keeping very close track of where your music is used. That's their prime responsibility and is also the only reason to get a subpublisher.


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## rgames (Feb 13, 2016)

As far as I know, CD Baby Pro is the one that keeps the publishing. If you signed up for just the regular CD Baby distribution (not Pro) then they don't get involved in the publishing. I have a few albums on CD Baby and they don't have any involvement on the PRO side.

The irony is that I can't think of any reason why a professional would assign his publishing to CD Baby.

rgames


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

rgames said:


> As far as I know, CD Baby Pro is the one that keeps the publishing. If you signed up for just the regular CD Baby distribution (not Pro) then they don't get involved in the publishing. I have a few albums on CD Baby and they don't have any involvement on the PRO side.
> 
> The irony is that I can't think of any reason why a professional would assign his publishing to CD Baby.
> 
> rgames


Yeah exactly... so I wonder what the advantage CD BABY says about Pro if ASCAP or BMI or whoever delivers your royalties anyway.


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## José Herring (Feb 13, 2016)

ryanstrong said:


> Yeah exactly... so I wonder what the advantage CD BABY says about Pro if ASCAP or BMI or whoever delivers your royalties anyway.


I think you might still be confused. 

ASCAP/BMI will not send you your royalties. That is up to CD baby now. Basically you singed an agreement with CD Baby that says they are now your publishers, will take a cut and send you the rest. It's called subpublishing.


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

josejherring said:


> I think you might still be confused.
> 
> ASCAP/BMI will not send you your royalties. That is up to CD baby now. Basically you singed an agreement with CD Baby that says they are now your publishers, will take a cut and send you the rest. It's called subpublishing.


Yeah I got that exactly... I'm saying what's CD Baby's marketing speak to why someone would sub publish.

And for the record I did not sign an agreement for them to subpublish. Not unless I have identity theft going on.


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## José Herring (Feb 13, 2016)

Seems to me looking from outside, when you agreed for them to distribute your work via Pro, you entered into a subpublishing deal with them.

The advantages of subpublishing is that you have a third party looking out for your plays via radio, tv, film, ect...

ASCAP BMI are notorious for missing music play especially in foreign markets. So your subpublisher is looking at that and looking for places that the major PRO's don't even know where to look.

In the best cases it will mint you a lot of cash that would have gone unreported. In the worst case it just cost you money as you now have somebody just as a middle man.


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

According to CD Baby's website..

*Isn’t it enough to just register with ASCAP or BMI?*
_No, ASCAP and BMI collect performance royalties ONLY. CD Baby will affiliate you with one of those Performing Rights Organizations for that purpose, but if you’re relying solely on ASCAP or BMI, you may be missing out on a big chunk of other publishing revenue — including mechanical royalties for global streams and international downloads._


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

josejherring said:


> Seems to me looking from outside, when you agreed for them to distribute your work via Pro, you entered into a subpublishing deal with them.



You are prob right! But after talking with ASCAP I don't HAVE to at this point in time I can actually terminate it. So now I just need to figure out if it's worth it. If they truly are a good policeman of publishing revenue or not.


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## José Herring (Feb 13, 2016)

Also, some subpublishers are starting to actively promote and place music as well. So that's another thing to consider.


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

OK yeah it was as a result from signing up for CD Baby Pro... BUT after talking with CD Baby they are unsure why this email came up NOW when I had signed up over a year ago.

Either way I at this point have a decision to make weather I need CD Baby Pro and it doesn't sound like I do since in all reality they just basically submit the music titles, and collect the royalties on behalf of me.

I can submit titles no problem and ASCAP collects. So don't see a need for Pro!


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## JT3_Jon (Feb 13, 2016)

Correctly me if I'm wrong, but I believe ASCAP uses a "survey" system where they do not actually track individual plays of music. So if CD Baby Pro actually tracks individual plays, it could work out in your favor.


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

JT3_Jon said:


> Correctly me if I'm wrong, but I believe ASCAP uses a "survey" system where they do not actually track individual plays of music. So if CD Baby Pro actually tracks individual plays, it could work out in your favor.


I think thats the problem with a lot of this is that I don't feel there is an actual description between either ASCAP (or the like) or CD Baby (or the like) that defines how they "count the beans".

There's a lot of marketing speak that say "we count the beans better" or "we find the beans to be counted better" but never an actual defining statement. As least from topical research.


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## ryanstrong (Feb 13, 2016)

Which to me brings up the question... why is "finding the beans to count" even an issue? Is there not just a singular source where cue sheets, streaming sheets etc. are submitted to? Or is that basically the root of the problem... and so places like CD Baby and TuneCore are saying we try to solve that problem more then the major ASCAPs BMIs?


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## Daryl (Feb 14, 2016)

Ryan, you've hit the nail on the head. The problem is that none of the PROs do their jobs properly, because most of the TV and streaming channels don't do theirs properly. In this day and age there is no reason that an exact play list can't be generated by every broadcaster and then the results forwards to the PRO. But that doesn't happen. It is the same with PRS. You could get loads of plays and not be represented on the days that they do the survey. There is also the issue of not all plays being equal ion sites such as Spotify. It is all a bit of a cock sandwich. It could be sorted out, but nobody has the will to make it happen.


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## kclements (Feb 14, 2016)

Daryl said:


> ... It could be sorted out, but nobody has the will to make it happen.



And why do you suppose that is? (Not being sarcastic). Is it because things have always been done this way and the current system is too ingrained? or there's no additional profit worth paying for the change ( doesn't seem likely, especially for the pros who would maybe see more or at least more accurate placements, and the production companies would have an easier time reporting)? Or are there too many different productions companies to deal with trying to get them all on the same system?

It's strange to me how some things automate easily (I.e. UPC codes for buying products in the grocery store) and other outdated systems stick around.


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## RiffWraith (Feb 14, 2016)

Daryl said:


> It is all a bit of a cock sandwich



I have to remember that!


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## Daryl (Feb 14, 2016)

kclements said:


> Is it because things have always been done this way and the current system is too ingrained?


Yes, that's my view. In my working life I've heard "well, we've always done it like that" so many times that I tend to filter it out. Technology is moving so fast, but the monolithic companies don't have the will to move with the times and by the time they do, everyone has been shafted. I will be fixing up a meeting with PRS to discuss such things, but I think it lies upon all of us to make our PROs start to throw their not inconsiderable weight around.


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## kclements (Feb 14, 2016)

Daryl said:


> ... I will be fixing up a meeting with PRS to discuss such things, but I think it lies upon all of us to make our PROs start to throw their not inconsiderable weight around.



I'll certainly contact BMI and let them know my opinions, but since I am barely (or not even) a blip on their radar, I'm not sure what good it will do. Unless others all do the same. 

Anyway, I am more than happy to lend my voice.


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## AllanH (Feb 14, 2016)

Maybe I'm missing something, but to me it looks as if CDBaby Pro collects all the publishing fees and keeps 15% of the publishing frees for its services:

http://members.cdbaby.com/pro.aspx

and specifically

* What percentage does CD Baby take? *
- We take an admin fee of 15% of your collected royalties. 

In the FAQ section near the end, it's relatively clear what they claim to do:

* What type of royalties will I receive? *
There are two main kinds of royalties we’ll collect:

*Performance Royalties*
Performance royalties are owed anytime your song is played in a public venue. Not only does this include when you or anyone else performs your song live, but also when your recorded music is played on TV and radio.
*Mechanical Royalties*
As an independent artist, it's nearly impossible to get paid all the mechanical royalties you're owed — unless, of course, mountains of paperwork, hundreds of unreturned emails and phone calls, and never-ending admin fees are enough to put the pep in your step each morning. Your performing rights organization (ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, etc.) is not responsible for collecting these kinds of royalties, so you're still missing out on mechanicals from streaming services like Spotify (worldwide), as well as mechanicals for digital sales outside of the U.S. through sites like iTunes Europe. CD Baby Pro is here to change all that; we'll make sure you get paid what you're owed.

So the way I read this page, is that CDBaby is indeed the publisher and performs the expected duties. In return they want 15% of what they collect.

I don't see anywhere that they expect to keep all of the publisher half.

Thanks for all the good comments so far - I am/was considering CDBaby Pro for an upcoming project.

Allan


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## ryanstrong (Feb 14, 2016)

AllanH said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but to me it looks as if CDBaby Pro collects all the publishing fees and keeps 15% of the publishing frees for its services:
> 
> http://members.cdbaby.com/pro.aspx
> 
> ...



Yes that is correct.

What has been the issue in my case was that I signed up for CDBaby Pro in July of 2014 and for some reason they are just now passing on the agreement to ASCAP. So that's why I brought this up because I assumed the administration of the publishing took over shortly after I signed up. So when I saw something come up NOW well over a year later it made me raise my eyebrows.


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## AllanH (Feb 15, 2016)

Ryan - thank you for clarifying. I read your initial post as if CDBaby were keeping 100% of the publishers share, not "just" the 15%.


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## ryanstrong (Feb 15, 2016)

AllanH said:


> Ryan - thank you for clarifying. I read your initial post as if CDBaby were keeping 100% of the publishers share, not "just" the 15%.


 The way you read the first post was the way I read the first email that I received from them so your confusion was my same confusion until I got them on the phone.


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## jacobthestupendous (Sep 12, 2016)

AllanH said:


> I am/was considering CDBaby Pro for an upcoming project.





ryanstrong said:


> Either way I at this point have a decision to make weather I need CD Baby Pro


Just curious if you guys went with (or continued to go with) CD Baby Pro. I am a nobody (yet!) thinking about putting my first year of compositional experiments for sale somehow (spent $,$$$ on gear and sample libraries--going to convince the missus it was worthwhile by selling ten or fifteen albums online ). I'm not affiliated with a PRO yet. CD Baby seems like a nice solution to get my meager offerings out there in a relatively convenient way. If it'll cost only 15% of total royalties (actually, from reading their website today, it looks like 9% of digital revenues and $4 per physical album order), then it seems like a decent trade-off, but not if it murders my future earning potential. Any advice? Thanks!


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## ryanstrong (Sep 12, 2016)

jacobthestupendous said:


> Just curious if you guys went with (or continued to go with) CD Baby Pro. I am a nobody (yet!) thinking about putting my first year of compositional experiments for sale somehow (spent $,$$$ on gear and sample libraries--going to convince the missus it was worthwhile by selling ten or fifteen albums online ). I'm not affiliated with a PRO yet. CD Baby seems like a nice solution to get my meager offerings out there in a relatively convenient way. If it'll cost only 15% of total royalties (actually, from reading their website today, it looks like 9% of digital revenues and $4 per physical album order), then it seems like a decent trade-off, but not if it murders my future earning potential. Any advice? Thanks!


It does what's advertised, I'm not in love or hate it. It's a necessary thing. 

Wish you could just upload music to iTunes and Spotify, ZERO need for a middle man in these tech days but whatever.


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## Desire Inspires (Sep 13, 2016)

It all comes down to how much money you are making. If you aren't making much money, you do not have much to worry about. If you are making a lot of money, you should be asking questions about what they are actually doing to earn that 15% of your royalties.


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