# 8dio purchase



## Jonas.Ingebretsen (Jul 15, 2014)

Hello,

I am considering buying some of 8dio's percussion instruments. But after searching around on Reddit and Google I found many posts accusing them of manipulating forums and censoring comments that they don't like... Is any of it true? 

This thread on reddit stood out the most for me: 
http://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMa ... emoved_me/

Thanks!


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## José Herring (Jul 15, 2014)

Seems about right. But, why would you care. Either you're going to buy from them because you like their libraries or you're not.

It's not like you're marrying the company. They're just sample libraries.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: What is up with 8dio's reputation?*



Jonas.Ingebretsen @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> This thread on reddit stood out the most for me:
> http://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMa ... emoved_me/



With comments like:

HEY GUYS DON'T YOU KNOW YOU CAN JUST DOWNLOAD ALL THIS SOFTWARE VIA TORRENTS AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY A THING?

followed by 

WTF STOP CENSORING ME

- I wouldn't put too much stock in a site such as that.

Cheers.


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## Mystic (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: What is up with 8dio's reputation?*



RiffWraith @ Tue Jul 15 said:


> With comments like:
> 
> HEY GUYS DON'T YOU KNOW YOU CAN JUST DOWNLOAD ALL THIS SOFTWARE VIA TORRENTS AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY A THING?
> 
> ...



What's funny is that then you see the "OMG why do I have 400 viruses on my computer and running so slow?!?!"


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## JohnG (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: What is up with 8dio's reputation?*

8dio has a strong point of view about sampling, which is great if you like what they are doing.

I would vote with my ears, not some chit-chat somewhere.

I own some of their libraries, and they resolved a problem for me satisfactorily not too long ago, so I am positive on them.


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## MA-Simon (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: What is up with 8dio's reputation?*



> 8Dio Productions deleted my comments, removed me from their subs and blocked me on their Youtube channel because I didn't like their new product "Dubstep" and spoke freely. Bad customer service 8Dio. Really bad.


+


> Well it's certainly NOT cool that they deleted my comment on Youtube where I said you could get better software like Massive, Absynth 5 or FM8 or Monark + Razor for the same price



I would have deleted these comments too. ~o) 
Not shure why that would have been bad customer service?

There are other stories told in this thread, but mostly very one-sided.
There are other viewpoints which are obviously missing. 

I think 8Dio is just very protective of their work and don't like to do much smalltalk.

Most flack probably evolved post Tonehammer / Percussion era, after their products got more pricey and more out of reach for hobby composers (like myself).
But thats mostly because their new product lines are also way more complicated, expensive and involved in the making. 

I think they are doing fine.


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## StevenOBrien (Jul 15, 2014)

From what I know, EDM producers are bitter about 8dio releasing libraries like Dubstep because it gives composers pre-made loops rather than forcing them to made their own sounds using synthesizers, so I would take that reddit post with a grain of salt.

I myself have a template full of 8dio products, and I'm quite happy with all of them.


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## The Darris (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: What is up with 8dio's reputation?*

All I can say about this is that you know something is up when you think twice before supporting a company that you fear any type of retribution from when stating your opinions of their products in an open forum. Retribution in this case would be banned from buying their products as I know at least one individual who has been refused service but for reasons unknown. <Again, two sides to the story to at least give 8dio the benefit of the doubt. 

My personal thought on them and their products thus far is that, they aren't for me. I don't care for the VI's they have created thus far. That doesn't mean they won't ever create something that I would buy or like in the future which is why I always look at their new releases objectively and let their products speak for themselves. 

As far as personal issues with them, other than the fear factor, none. I haven't witnessed any conduct unbecoming of developer. A lot of stuff found in that reddit link could just be embellished BS.


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## José Herring (Jul 15, 2014)

So banned so what? If you self ban for fear of being banned isn't that self defeating?


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## StatKsn (Jul 15, 2014)

Based on past stories and criticisms I have seen here and there (I also heard multiple times that their polite comments are deleted, dev's hotheaded behavior on forums, treated like a pirate and asked a copy of passport, etc), I am under impression that the people behind 8Dio are tad "emotional", overly so from time to time. To be honest, my personal perception of 8Dio has been a bit tarnished (which definitely turned me off from impulse buying 8Dio products like I used to do), and I never got reply for support requests I sent to 8Dio, but I never had a direct conflict with them.

They are probably trying a bit too hard when it comes to social advertisement, but I must say that, as a member, V8P is one of the best way to reward returning customers I've ever seen (with exclusive promotional offers), I hope other companies will follow this path.

Also, Tawnia of 8Dio's post in the reedit thread is worth reading and very reasonable.

Edit: Is kriztofo's comment about the Tonehammer split in the reedit thread true? A quick search shows that he definitely seems to be a Soundrion associate.


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## The Darris (Jul 16, 2014)

josejherring @ Tue Jul 15 said:


> So banned so what? If you self ban for fear of being banned isn't that self defeating?



Yes, it is, but I am not self banning. I just haven't found a product of their's that I can't live without for the time being. However, the mere fact that I have those concerns are a problem in my opinion and should be a concern to a developer if they want customers. We all know how quickly they will post a link to one of their Adagio or Adagietto videos on any strings thread outside of the commercial release topic. They want people to buy so why not put some care into their own reputation?

If someone, like me, who doesn't own any of their libraries has the opinion I do of them then something is wrong. If I were a sample developer, I would want to change that. Sure, maybe the loudest idiot/troll has skewed my opinion and I could be completely wrong to think this way but I haven't seen it addressed by them. Do they need to? That is up to them. I won't tell them how to do their jobs nor will I fault them for that. The fact remains that this is my impression of their reputation which is what this thread is about.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 16, 2014)

I trust we all have legal representation on this thread?


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## The Darris (Jul 16, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Tue Jul 15 said:


> I trust we all have legal representation on this thread?



My point exactly. And thanks for a laugh that woke my wife up. hahahahaha. :D


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## Casiquire (Jul 16, 2014)

I know EastWest's forum practices certainly put a bad taste in my mouth. I had Hollywood Strings and Hollywood Brass Diamond in my cart at the time, back when they were over a grand, and while the forum issue wasn't the only problem I've had with them, it didn't help. I haven't bought either of those products, nor have I made any other purchases from them since. No, being happy with the "Delete" button is not a harmless practice. Saying "your ears are the only thing that matters" is misguided too--if a company needs to whitewash to look good, then I have reason to worry.

Anyway my post is in no way referring to 8dio since this is the first I've heard of such rumors, I'm just talking about my views on online censorship's negative impact on product/service quality perception.


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## Casiquire (Jul 16, 2014)

josejherring @ Tue 15 Jul said:


> It's not like you're marrying the company. They're just sample libraries.



Also--I flat out disagree. They're complicated pieces of technology with NO RETURN POLICY. The company better prove itself, without the need for censorship.


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## rayinstirling (Jul 16, 2014)

The Darris @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> josejherring @ Tue Jul 15 said:
> 
> 
> > So banned so what? If you self ban for fear of being banned isn't that self defeating?
> ...




It's time you joined the real world. Most developers who have membership here will jump in on threads where they feel their product will do the job and why not? It's their business. BTW I couldn't care if they were as obnoxious as me (unlikely) as long as their offering worked (and I can count on one hand those that haven't) for me over many years buying such things.


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## The Darris (Jul 16, 2014)

rayinstirling @ Tue Jul 15 said:


> It's time you joined the real world. Most developers who have membership here will jump in on threads where they feel their product will do the job and why not? It's their business. BTW I couldn't care if they were as obnoxious as me (unlikely) as long as their offering worked (and I can count on one hand those that haven't) for me over many years buying such things.



I think you miss understood my comment. I don't mind them plugging their products, I would do the same if I were a developer. My point is that they are clearly wanting customers, so why not care more about their reputation? 

Anyway, that was my point and was not meant to be a snarky stab at how they promote their products. I know the Adagio and Adagietto series is something they feel really passionate about which is why they do that. Self promotion in a positive way increases sales. Having a good reputation also helps. Just sayin.


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## tawnia (Jul 16, 2014)

Dear Jonas.Ingebretsen,

You have nothing to worry about. 8dio does not censor or manipulate forums. The thread you are referring to is over a year old and it was a very unique thread indeed. 

8dio will continue to produce innovative and quality products and we hope our customers enjoy them and find them useful. 

I can always be reached at [email protected] if there are any additional concerns.

I am confident that your experience with 8dio will be a positive one and hope you give us a try. 

Tawnia
Co-Creator 8dio


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## The Darris (Jul 16, 2014)

tawnia @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> Dear Jonas.Ingebretsen,
> 
> You have nothing to worry about. 8dio does not censor or manipulate forums. The thread you are referring to is over a year old and it was a very unique thread indeed.
> 
> ...



Tawnia earned +5 reputation points from me. 

Thanks for addressing this thread Tawnia.


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## Pingu (Jul 16, 2014)

I've been a customer since day 1 of Tonehammer, and never had an issue, apart from the delays to release dates. And, contrary to what was said in the reddit thread, that has actually improved massively since they became 8DIO. More to the point, there have always been emails, shortly before the anticipated release dates, to say 'sorry, we're running behind.' 

If it concerns you that they may run their business like a business then by all means keep investigating, but if your primary concern is whether you might hit snags as a customer then I wouldn't worry.


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## Markus S (Jul 16, 2014)

Personally, if I don't especially like the behavior of a company, but like their products I will buy them anyway, but I will wait until it is really necessary. I tend to buy much quicker from people who I trust, like U-HE in example or Spectrasonics, where you just know they will do everything to deliver high-class customer service.

The other day I couldn't find my Zebra serial number and at U-HE they sent it back within a few hours with an update to great new version of Zebra, I wasn't aware of as I do very little electronic music. They were quick, polite and efficient and that impressed me.

So my point being - even if you think there is a problem with a developers attitude or reputation or whatever, if it is safe to buy (no scam) and you really need the product for a job, go for it anyway.


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## Matthijs van Wissen (Jul 16, 2014)

I own several products from 8DIO, and I'm very happy with all of them. I've contacted the helpdesk a few times with technical problems and they responded within a couple of hours and the problem was solved immediately.


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## Jaap (Jul 16, 2014)

I have never had any problems with them actually and this sounds quite unexpected and also a bit over the top (just read a bit of the reddit page). They where good in support when they where Tonehammer and they are good now (also Soundiron btw, my Requiem Light moved to them).
Also these things are highly personal. I read horror stories about EW as well, but my experience with them is nothing but excellent. I think it also has a lot to do with how you present your issue with a company.


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## Daniel James (Jul 16, 2014)

As a composer your focus should be on achieving the greatest end product you can get. If you believe 8dio products will get you there, then absolutely give them a go, you are only hurting yourself if you don't.

A company's reputation will be hit and miss depending on who you are talking to. But like I said it comes down to what you as a creator feel you need for your work. Keep business as business and drama as drama.

-DJ


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 16, 2014)

Daniel James @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> As a composer your focus should be on achieving the greatest end product you can get. If you believe 8dio products will get you there, then absolutely give them a go, you are only hurting yourself if you don't.
> 
> A company's reputation will be hit and miss depending on who you are talking to. But like I said it comes down to what you as a creator feel you need for your work. Keep business as business and drama as drama.



Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with that, Dan. Talking purely in generalities here, not about the specifics of this thread (and I realise I'm wading into philosophical territory here) - what kind of a world do we want to live in? One where brute corporate strength wins, with no ethical consequences? Regardless of damage to people or environment? IMO that's not a healthy road to go down. For example, I think we should be aspiring to a world where child labour is unacceptable, and if that makes phones a bit more expensive, so be it.

So obviously that's all on a dramatic grand scale, as far as I know no developers are actively involved in the slave trade. But if people want to inform their purchasing decisions with ethics, I'm all for it.


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## G.E. (Jul 16, 2014)

Daniel James @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> Keep business as business and drama as drama.


^ THIS !
Seriously...You are looking to buy a sample library,not to make friends.As long as they deliver on their product,it really doesn't matter if they're A-holes.And 8Dio delivers.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jul 16, 2014)

@Guy: Child labour and the slave trade are very different things.
FYI

And about 8Dio, I own and absolutely love some of their products. Use them in everything. And I have NEVER NEEDED to contact support. That in itself is enough for me.


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## stillcd (Jul 16, 2014)

Daniel James @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> As a composer your focus should be on achieving the greatest end product you can get. If you believe 8dio products will get you there, then absolutely give them a go, you are only hurting yourself if you don't.
> 
> A company's reputation will be hit and miss depending on who you are talking to. But like I said it comes down to what you as a creator feel you need for your work. Keep business as business and drama as drama.
> 
> -DJ


I agree with DJ on this. At the end of the day, 8Dio is still a business. They make a product, and if that product will further enhance you as a composer, then it makes sense to become a customer. Limiting your options for sample libraries because of what "he said/she said" is only gonna hold you back. 

Cody


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## sinkd (Jul 16, 2014)

Haven't bought anything since Tonehammer became 8dio, but always had a great opinion of their customer service.

DS


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 16, 2014)

Jdiggity1 @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> @Guy: Child labour and the slave trade are very different things..



:roll:


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## Jdiggity1 (Jul 16, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Wed 16 Jul said:


> Jdiggity1 @ Wed Jul 16 said:
> 
> 
> > @Guy: Child labour and the slave trade are very different things..
> ...



Yes, that was my response also.


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## Ian Dorsch (Jul 16, 2014)

I own and use a bunch of 8Dio stuff and have had nothing but good experiences with the company and their products.


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## stonzthro (Jul 16, 2014)

Jonas - do you like the sound of the percussion on 8dio? If so, follow JohnG's advice and "vote with your ears".

I have lots of their samples and many other libs as well and I've never been censored (that I know of...), and I have voiced an issue here and there.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 16, 2014)

Jdiggity1 @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Wed 16 Jul said:
> 
> 
> > Jdiggity1 @ Wed Jul 16 said:
> ...



I didn't think I had to spell out that a) I am aware of that, b) they are both horribly serious issues and c) I was therefore using different examples, but maybe I do.

Why make such a point, I guess many are saying - simples for me. Do we accept that there are ethical considerations to be made in business, or is it a dog-eat-dog (not literal dogs, folks) free for all? My view is that consideration of ethics are essential from a humanitarian perspective, and to stop society from ultimately destroying itself. Although in our little VI realm there's nothing nearly as serious as stuff found in big business, for sure ethical considerations might well come into play. Fortunately, it's a big market out there now and many quality players, so if one or two are found wanting in any regard, it's no hardship to lean on the others more. There's very very few developers whose products are SO good that they are put into a different league from everyone else... for me it might only be Spectrasonics and Native Instruments (purely for Kontakt), in truth, that I musically absolutely couldn't live without, although I would of course it would be a terrible wrench to be without companies such as AudioBro, Spitfire, ProjectSam and CineSamples.

To touch briefly on the specifics purely of the quality of 8dio's stuff I have some products from the Tonehammer era (split now between 8dio and Soundiron) and some from 8dio itself - most are excellent, but Hybrid Tools 2 was disappointingly light, content-wise.


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## TheUnfinished (Jul 16, 2014)

I'm with Guy here. There are a couple of developers that I don't buy stuff from because I know they've given smaller developers litigious shit over very spurious reasons.

So... sometimes, not supporting an ethically suspect company is actually supporting an ethically strong company.

And I think that's worth doing. Espcially when they're the smaller guys who need the support more.


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## wst3 (Jul 16, 2014)

two more cents worth...

I've been a customer since early Tonehammer days, and I've yet to have anything but positive experiences.

A long time ago when I needed a vocal library I emailed them and ended up in a lengthy, and very educational exchange with Troels.

Since then I did need to re-download a library I had purchased, and they had me fixed up same day.

Troels can be a bit of a character, and he is very protective of his work - which is fine, and has strong opinions about creating and using sample libraries. I think that's fine, but thus far it has always worked to my advantage<G>!

IF you find them to be heavy handed, or somehow offensive then you should vote with your wallet. I'd just urge you to dig deeply, and be sure you have an issue with their business practices, as you will miss out on some very cool libraries.


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## mscottweber (Jul 16, 2014)

I agree with Guy and Matt about the importance of trying to choose ethically sound companies to buy from. As consumers our greatest power is our choice to buy something or not. If we feel that companies are practicing unethical business and we want to change that, the best way to do it is by not doing business with them. ESPECIALLY in a market as niche as ours here, buying or not buying from a developer has a greater impact than choosing not to shop at Walmart, etc.

That being said, I personally don't own any 8dio products but I don't think I would hesitate to buy one if I felt I needed it.


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## PMortise (Jul 16, 2014)

Firstly, I own a few 8dio libraries and haven't gotten anything from them except smooth transactions, helpful advice - and a couple of cool freebies!

But 8dio aside, this is an interesting topic that reminds me of the saying: "Every dollar you spend is a vote for how you want the world to be and who you want to control it."


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## bmiller360 (Jul 16, 2014)

I know nothing about censoring, etc coming from 8dio. I do have issues, however with their concept of sampling and have been burned (totally my fault) twice. When I had Claire Clarinet issues, the support replies were silly and protective. So, what did I do? I went ahead and bought their Adagietto Strings and found some ridiculous flaws, as well as the support reply that acknowledged NOTHING. Some Los Angeles composer colleagues were in disbelief of the reply I got when I contacted tech support. 8dio's only reply to anything (for me) has been "our product is great and sounds beautiful". Well, come over to my studio and face my very respected, busy friends with that line. Nothing against the actual fidelity of their samples, but the programming and obvious audio flaws make their stuff unusable for me. Their tech support makes their products unusable, in my eyes for everyone with ears! This is not a rant, but an actual explanation of my experience with 8dio. The library I went to when the Adagietto strings and support went off the wall has been AMAZING. An incredible support, incredible sounds and several of my colleagues have jumped to them from 8dio and are as flabbergasted as I am about their way of doing business.


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## tawnia (Jul 16, 2014)

Dear Bmiller,

My sincere apologies for your experience. I am truly surprised that 8dio support would respond that way. This is not something I would tolerate and not the way we operate.

If you would like to contact me at [email protected] and I will be happy to look at the ticket and find out what went wrong. 

Again, truly sorry for your experience. 

Tawnia


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## jamwerks (Jul 16, 2014)

Pretty much agree with @wst3 above...

I own Adagio and Claire, and had one problem with support. Went back and forth 3-4 times, and I could tell the guy really didn't know what he was talking about (was nice about it though). But no company is perfect.

I don't agree with some of Troel's philosophy, but will say that we're fortunate imo to have passionate people like him making tools for us.

As for the samples, the legato in Claire is much better than anything else out there imo (I own lots of it). They really seem to know how to program legato.

My only real problem with the 8dio's products as a whole, is the Kontakt articulation management. There is little or no custom options. With Claire, you have to use KS's, and they aren't customizable. With Spitfire & Cinesamples for example, you can totally customize how you work. And Cinesamples has had these posibilities for about 3-4 years now. Pretty sure I won't buy any thing else from them until this is updated.


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## Markus S (Jul 16, 2014)

bmiller360 @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> I know nothing about censoring, etc coming from 8dio. I do have issues, however with their concept of sampling and have been burned (totally my fault) twice. When I had Claire Clarinet issues, the support replies were silly and protective. So, what did I do? I went ahead and bought their Adagietto Strings and found some ridiculous flaws, as well as the support reply that acknowledged NOTHING. Some Los Angeles composer colleagues were in disbelief of the reply I got when I contacted tech support. 8dio's only reply to anything (for me) has been "our product is great and sounds beautiful". Well, come over to my studio and face my very respected, busy friends with that line. Nothing against the actual fidelity of their samples, but the programming and obvious audio flaws make their stuff unusable for me. Their tech support makes their products unusable, in my eyes for everyone with ears! This is not a rant, but an actual explanation of my experience with 8dio. The library I went to when the Adagietto strings and support went off the wall has been AMAZING. An incredible support, incredible sounds and several of my colleagues have jumped to them from 8dio and are as flabbergasted as I am about their way of doing business.



And what library did you turned to, if you don't mind?


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## Ian Dorsch (Jul 16, 2014)

Markus S @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> And what library did you turned to, if you don't mind?



In the interest of not rehashing this, it's been discussed previously in this thread: http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39605


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## Markus S (Jul 16, 2014)

Ian Dorsch @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> Markus S @ Wed Jul 16 said:
> 
> 
> > And what library did you turned to, if you don't mind?
> ...



Mural? OK, thanks for the link.


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## Ian Dorsch (Jul 16, 2014)

Markus S @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> Mural? OK, thanks for the link.



o-[][]-o


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## Graham Keitch (Jul 17, 2014)

Here's what I like about 8dio - and what I don't like about them.

Good points:

Not afraid to innovate and stand by their ideas. Their approach to sampling real expression is certainly not new but they have embraced this as a key feature of their recent libraries.

They are enthusiastic and generally communicative.


Bad points FOR ME- but these will not be shared by everyone.

Poor quality control. Within minutes of using Adagio when it first came out there were obvious bad notes in some of the most important articulations. All libraries suffer from this to some extent but some 8dio libraries I've purchased have been notoriously bad.

Apart from the above expression model, a lack of strategic direction. Adagio was recorded in a church, Claire in a concert hall. For those wanting to build a complete orchestra (which is not all of us, but it is me) this is inconsistent.

Adagio - still no true second violins. It can't be a complete string library without v2!

I just don't like the tone of their instruments. I don't know whether it's technique, environment, players or instruments but across the board they sound slightly metallic / harsh and synthetic to my ears. This is based on my taste for warmer sounding samples. LASS, Cinesamples and other American libraries suffer from this and I suspect this is a cultural difference.

The 8dio demos are far too wet and keyboard orientated for my taste - again a personal issue. It seems to me, these libraries are orientated towards live playing-in. As another poster has noted, keyswitch dependency is evidence of this.

So the bad points outweigh the good - FOR MY TASTE AND REQUIREMENTS. But some of these can be discounted if you don't share my taste and needs


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Jul 17, 2014)

I'm not a fan of 8Dio instruments personally because they are just not, as Graham said above, in my taste for the tone. I have thus far had a couple of exchanges with the support in the past, it has been a mixed bag as I have yet to receive any feedback at all for my latest email. I have, however, had positive experiences in the past with 8Dio support.


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## mr (Jul 17, 2014)

I own two 8dio products, one of which I personally like more than the other, but both definitely are great products.

What I really like about Troels is that he is very protective about their intellectual property and speaks out about copyright/piracy issues in general.


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## williemyers (Jul 17, 2014)

bmiller360 @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> ....I went ahead and bought their Adagietto Strings and found some ridiculous flaws, as well as the support reply that acknowledged NOTHING......


 bmiller, I wonder if you could specify (perhaps in a PM) some of the difficulties that you ran in to with Adagietto? I also found it woefully disappointing, but didn't know quite how to express it to 8DIO. Perhaps some faults that you found coul help me speak out to them, as well?


bmiller360 @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> The library I went to when the Adagietto strings and support went off the wall has been AMAZING.


 Oh - - name names, please!!


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## JohnG (Jul 17, 2014)

This kind of thread troubles me, as a user. 

I don't like to see any one company singled out in a kind of shooting gallery for every negative experience one has had with them, which this thread feels like in some respects.

Please write in a balanced way if you have had a balanced experience. Consider that these are all small companies with fairly limited sales figures, and if you write "X Company is great but..." and then write two paragraphs about the one difficulty you've had, readers might be left with an overall quite negative idea about your experience even though that's not really what it was like for you.

So I invite all to weigh judiciously what is written in a thread like this, not just for this company but for all the developers we depend on.

(For the sake of clarity, I am writing here as a user of music technology, and not as a moderator. You are free to write what you think and this should not be interpreted as "official" censorship or any nonsense like that.)


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## givemenoughrope (Jul 17, 2014)

8dio stuff is great. I have Adagio, Adagietto and CAGE. They sound great but have their own approach. Sometimes it works well sometimes it doesn't and I reach for LASS or the Xfade patches in Adagio. And yes, we're lucky to have a nutcase like Troels and co. (and other developers) following through with his vision. Hats off. 

Never had a problem with their service. They've helped me with a few issues and even been insightful about their approach, how to get good results, etc. via email. All good. 

Samples are all just little audio snapshots of microperformances. Wrangling into something that almost sounds like actual music is tough so just use everything. Seriously, the best library is all of them..or none of them. Get over it. 

Bmiller and colleagues (ha), you had an expectation of how that library would work and it didn't work for you. No big deal. You're rubbed bc you dropped a few bills and the workflow doesn't work for you. Ok fine. I guarantee there will be some cue where your go-to's need some help and adding just a few notes from the 8dio stuff will make it and breath and work. Then you got your $'s worth. I just spent all this $ and time (years) and been to every tech from La Canada to Chatsworth to Venice to get some vintage German amplifiers to work...only to find that I don't actually like the sound of them as much as I thought. Learned a ton about amp design, transformers, (and amp techs) etc. but moving on...


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## Graham Keitch (Jul 17, 2014)

That's sound advice John - and a number of us commenting here have done so in a constructive and honest manner, generally using phrases like 'to or for my taste' as an indication that are comments reflect personal preferences and opinions. 

Three cheers for 8dio and all the other developers to whom we owe so much o-[][]-o 

Graham


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## prodigalson (Jul 17, 2014)

> This kind of thread troubles me, as a user.
> 
> I don't like to see any one company singled out in a kind of shooting gallery for every negative experience one has had with them, which this thread feels like in some respects.
> 
> ...



I completely agree. I think we need to remember that most of these developers including 8Dio are (AFAIK) small companies making essentially boutique products for a relatively small niche market. An entire thread with the title "What's Up With 8dio's Reputation?" can be a dangerous thing. The title alone implies (perhaps unintentionally) that there is a ton of examples of this negative perception...even though the only reference given is one user's rant on Reddit (?). This thread started as a question about 8dio's reputation and quickly became a discussion less about 8dio and more about a philosophical argument on the merits of buying from a company with questionable service in PRINCIPLE.

Nevertheless a new user unfamiliar with 8dio would be forgiven for glancing through all of this and coming away with the impression that there is some long history of bad service and product design by 8dio which I think we can all agree is generally untrue. 

I for one have many 8dio products. Some I love, some less so but I have NEVER gotten the impression that they are misleading in their advertising of their products and although I have only had one customer service exchange with Tawnia, I found her incredibly helpful, quick to respond and generally very appreciative of my business.

Just my two cents


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## Carbs (Jul 17, 2014)

I think a new user would read through this thread and see that the OP's concerns were unfounded. At least thats how I came away from it. I don't own any 8dio products, but tawnias' replies alone have made it clear to me that they are professionals who do care about customer service. I think these threads are only dangerous if the reader lacks any sort of critical thinking skills of their own.


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## The Darris (Jul 17, 2014)

This thread became toxic the second individuals decided to discuss why they don't like their products versus the topic which is reputation and more about customer service. Your taste in their products is subjective. Customer treatment isn't, in my opinion. 

Tawnia's few posts on here show a great deal of professionalism and willingness to help those out who have had a bad experience. I suggest those step up and email her so you all can shelf the issues from the past.


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## ChristopherDoucet (Jul 17, 2014)

Tawnia from 8Dio went out of her way to help me when she and Troels didn't need to. I'll always be grateful.


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## Diffusor (Jul 17, 2014)

Graham Keitch @ Thu Jul 17 said:


> I just don't like the tone of their instruments. I don't know whether it's technique, environment, players or instruments but across the board they sound slightly metallic / harsh and synthetic to my ears. This is based on my taste for warmer sounding samples. LASS, Cinesamples and other American libraries suffer from this and I suspect this is a cultural difference.



Adagio sounds more harsh than LASS? LASS was always like sawing wood to me and took a lot of processing. Adagio sounds more "warm" to me out of the box.


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## Jonas.Ingebretsen (Jul 17, 2014)

Hey.

Wow. This thread blew up. 

I've read every post in here and I'm feeling relieved to see that 8dio are indeed, based on the user posts, a good company, though every company has its flaws and every company is not without wrong doings... I sometimes find it hard to imagine that a company is actually built up by people. These people share the same passion and love for music as we do. It's simpler to look at a company from a dehumanized perspective and make quick judgments based on whatever we find on the internet. This is the core reason why I started this thread as I was hoping to hear from both the developers and their loyal costumers.

This thread has gone a bit off topic as some are starting to discuss their products, which is not what this thread is about at all. Second, my intentions was never to hurt their image. In fact these kinds of threads are a double edge sword to any company, as opinionated people will feel the need to share their relations with the company. I hope we all can continue discussing in a respectable manner. 

I for one, have made up my mind.


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## Casiquire (Jul 17, 2014)

Diffusor @ Thu 17 Jul said:


> Graham Keitch @ Thu Jul 17 said:
> 
> 
> > I just don't like the tone of their instruments. I don't know whether it's technique, environment, players or instruments but across the board they sound slightly metallic / harsh and synthetic to my ears. This is based on my taste for warmer sounding samples. LASS, Cinesamples and other American libraries suffer from this and I suspect this is a cultural difference.
> ...



Reread the original quote--they're not saying LASS is warmer than Adagio.


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## rayinstirling (Jul 18, 2014)

Jonas.Ingebretsen @ Fri Jul 18 said:


> Hey.
> 
> Wow. This thread blew up.



Surprise, surprise!
Jonas, you must take full responsibility for all the replies to your ill-worded question.
Of course, neither this forum nor any other are solely populated by even-handed intelligent people who always, think before they post.
In my experience most software I've bought that hasn't work for me usually is down to my failings as a user. It would be nice if some others could be so humble and just move on.

Ray


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## Vovique (Jul 18, 2014)

*Re: What is up with 8dio's reputation?*

Yep, it's the opposite that was meant - that American-made string libraries (including LASS) have a kind of a rough cinematic edge to their sound (which I personally prefer), whereas Berlin and Vienna are softer in a European way. That's what was implied by "cultural differencies".


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## ProtectedRights (Jul 18, 2014)

rayinstirling @ Fri Jul 18 said:


> In my experience most software I've bought that hasn't work for me usually is down to my failings as a user.



Well for me it is the exact opposite. All glitches and edges that I experienced in sample libraries or software were real bugs, and I reported lots of them. There are tons of bugs in software these days.


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## KMuzzey (Jul 18, 2014)

I've never had a problem with the 8Dio folks. And they make such awesome toys. 

Kerry


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## JohnG (Jul 18, 2014)

ProtectedRights @ 18th July 2014 said:


> rayinstirling @ Fri Jul 18 said:
> 
> 
> > In my experience most software I've bought that hasn't work for me usually is down to my failings as a user.
> ...



You could make it a second career.


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## ProtectedRights (Jul 18, 2014)

JohnG @ Fri Jul 18 said:


> ProtectedRights @ 18th July 2014 said:
> 
> 
> > rayinstirling @ Fri Jul 18 said:
> ...



No kidding, that actually occured to me as well! I think I would make a really good beta tester, or test engineer, if you want


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## woodsdenis (Jul 18, 2014)

To answer the OP, the Dubstep episode was handled spectacularly badly, and didn't portray them in a good light. Didn't they also refuse to sell one of their products to a forum member here? He can comment if he wishes. As for their products I have a couple, one of which, the mandolin strummer is excellent.


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Jul 18, 2014)

woodsdenis @ Fri 18 Jul said:


> To answer the OP, the Dubstep episode was handled spectacularly badly, and didn't portray them in a good light. Didn't they also refuse to sell one of their products to a forum member here? He can comment if he wishes. As for their products I have a couple, one of which, the mandolin strummer is excellent.



You know, I forgot about that incident, especially as it was against the spirit of a product for charity.


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## madbulk (Jul 18, 2014)

lucianogiacomozzi @ Fri Jul 18 said:


> woodsdenis @ Fri 18 Jul said:
> 
> 
> > To answer the OP, the Dubstep episode was handled spectacularly badly, and didn't portray them in a good light. Didn't they also refuse to sell one of their products to a forum member here? He can comment if he wishes. As for their products I have a couple, one of which, the mandolin strummer is excellent.
> ...



Oooookay... we're crossing yet another threshold now. Let's go back to John's kind advice and not be characterizing people as "against the spirit of a product for charity." I don't know the facts; thrilled to not know them; but I'm confident nobody is against charity here.


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## José Herring (Jul 18, 2014)

madbulk @ Fri Jul 18 said:


> lucianogiacomozzi @ Fri Jul 18 said:
> 
> 
> > woodsdenis @ Fri 18 Jul said:
> ...



In this case everybody was quick to jump on 8dio being the bad guy, when if you flipped it and actually looked at the motivation of the guy doing the "charity" work, you realize that his motivations weren't all that charitable.


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## playz123 (Jul 18, 2014)

JohnG @ Thu Jul 17 said:


> This kind of thread troubles me, as a user.
> 
> I don't like to see any one company singled out in a kind of shooting gallery for every negative experience one has had with them, which this thread feels like in some respects.



My sentiments exactly so +1. While many respondents have offered positive comments, I'm still not sure about the merits of focusing on one company like this, and personally I don't have any major gripes to offer about 8DIO or their products. I suspect that we could centre out any of the major developers, and someone would still come up with something negative to say about them,  whether it would be about their products (or lack of updates and new releases) or their support. Certainly nothing wrong though with constructive criticism and, again, some respondents have definitely kept that in mind when posting.

My question to myself is: have I really learned anything or gained anything useful by reading this thread, and sadly the answer is probably 'very little'.


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Jul 18, 2014)

...and they just sorted out my support issue, so thanks guys!


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## tmm (Jul 18, 2014)

TL;DR... Is this a real thread?


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## jleckie (Jul 18, 2014)

It is. And it's consistent with most threads on the internet as far as I can tell...


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## Markus S (Jul 22, 2014)

I'm posting here, why? Because I can. ah sweet freedom.  ...Oh well, have to get back to work now.


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## ProtectedRights (Jul 22, 2014)

Markus S @ Tue Jul 22 said:


> I'm posting here, why? Because I can. ah sweet freedom.  ...Oh well, have to get back to work now.



You truly achieved great things :roll:


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## FriFlo (Jul 22, 2014)

...


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## snowleopard (Jul 23, 2014)




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