# How do you deliver your stems (for Film and TV) for mixing?



## jononotbono (May 16, 2020)

So let’s just say you’ve finished your music and you have hired a mixing engineer to mix your music, how do you give your stems to them?

When working on music, especially with dialogue and sfx, music is often very quiet as I write it so I’m curious what everyone does?

When you’ve finished writing a cue, scene, short film (whatever it is) do you bounce out files that have been brought back to 0db or do you bounce out files with your own volume adjustments as you made them whilst writing? I guess I’m the digital domain a file can be raised or lowered but I do wondered about delivering superlow Volume stuff and whether it’s best to just provide a reference track of what the music sounded like and then give flattened files all centre panning and at 0db?

Cheers for any help

Bono


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## Henning (May 16, 2020)

Best is to ask the engineer. I'm doing games mostly and the stem delivery details vary a big deal between clients and their mixing engineers.


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## Scoremixer (May 16, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> When you’ve finished writing a cue, scene, short film (whatever it is) do you bounce out files that have been brought back to 0db or do you bounce out files with your own volume adjustments as you made them whilst writing? I guess I’m the digital domain a file can be raised or lowered but I do wondered about delivering superlow Volume stuff and whether it’s best to just provide a reference track of what the music sounded like and then give flattened files all centre panning and at 0db?



Nah, always give them your balance and your levels - budgets and time constraints mean mixing film and tv is almost always a matter of getting through an unreasonable amount of music in an unreasonable amount of time; recreating a starting point that you and the director/production are already reasonably happy with is a waste of time. If the music's super quiet then it's easy to clip gain everything up, but much harder to recreate a balance from scratch. 

Beyond that, then definitely ask whoever's mixing for their preferences. For me, I'd ask you to leave on any creative or hard to replicate effects, take off any vanity effects like sweetening EQs or general reverbs, and always provide the last reference mix file that the production has heard and approved.


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## goalie composer (May 16, 2020)

Scoremixer said:


> Nah, always give them your balance and your levels - budgets and time constraints mean mixing film and tv is almost always a matter of getting through an unreasonable amount of music in an unreasonable amount of time; recreating a starting point that you and the director/production are already reasonably happy with is a waste of time. If the music's super quiet then it's easy to clip gain everything up, but much harder to recreate a balance from scratch.
> 
> Beyond that, then definitely ask whoever's mixing for their preferences. For me, I'd ask you to leave on any creative or hard to replicate effects, take off any vanity effects like sweetening EQs or general reverbs, and always provide the last reference mix file that the production has heard and approved.



This


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## jononotbono (May 16, 2020)

Scoremixer said:


> Nah, always give them your balance and your levels - budgets and time constraints mean mixing film and tv is almost always a matter of getting through an unreasonable amount of music in an unreasonable amount of time; recreating a starting point that you and the director/production are already reasonably happy with is a waste of time. If the music's super quiet then it's easy to clip gain everything up, but much harder to recreate a balance from scratch.
> 
> Beyond that, then definitely ask whoever's mixing for their preferences. For me, I'd ask you to leave on any creative or hard to replicate effects, take off any vanity effects like sweetening EQs or general reverbs, and always provide the last reference mix file that the production has heard and approved.



So audio that has been rendered that is super quiet, has no problem being clip gained and raised in volume? No loss of energy or anything? I didn’t think there would be a loss as it’s digital but wasn’t 100%

So here is another example (I’m trying to understand this because I’m not a professional mixing engineer) I’m curious about. Typically when mixing (for example) a Kick drum you would have the recorded performance and therefore consistency in recorded volume so plugins and rack gear will respond to it as the user intends. What if the composer takes that recorded performance and edits parts of it so it’s quieter or louder in parts of the performance and then when that file gets sent to a mixing engineer, it’s now not consistent. Does the engineer clip gain it back? Automate it? Create a new channel with the quieter part and use different plugins and rack gear on those parts to suit?

Thanks, just trying to understand this stuff to ultimately make everything less painful 😂


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## RonOrchComp (May 16, 2020)

It seems as tho you are making this more complicated than it needs to be.

First, what is clip gaining? Never heard that term before.

Secondly, if you want to "make it" in the production music/library field (is this what yo are going for?), you HAVE to learn how to mix yourself. It's one thing if you score an entire TV show, or TV movie, and want an engineer to do the mix, but another if you are churning out 100s of cues per year - which is what almost everyone needs to do in order to earn a good living. The money you spend on an engineer will very rarely be worth it, nor will the xtra time involved.

Third, what is this: "What if the composer takes that recorded performance and edits parts of it so it’s quieter or louder in parts of the performance and then when that file gets sent to a mixing engineer, it’s now not consistent". Sorry, but that makes no sense. Not sure what you are getting at there.

Fourth, why are you at_ super quiet_ levels? You shouldn't be. Your levels should be as high (loud) as possible, without clipping. You should aim for 0db, or just under. No less then -.05db. If your loudest parts are peaking at, say, -8db, your cues are not as loud as other cues that you are competing with. Guess who has a better chance here?

Lastly, your stems should be an accurate representation of the full mix. ie - there should not be any level changes when the stems are rendered.

Hope this helps.


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## jononotbono (May 16, 2020)

RonOrchComp said:


> First, what is clip gaining? Never heard that term before.



Clip gain is a feature in Pro Tools and Cubase (and probably most DAWs).




RonOrchComp said:


> Secondly, if you want to "make it" in the production music/library field (is this what yo are going for?), you HAVE to learn how to mix yourself.



No, actually I'm trying out a mix engineer for a short film I've written the music to and he typically mixes audio for bands not film but I'm good friends with him and want to see what happens. I usually mix my music myself unless it's for a feature film. So it's obviously how I want in my DAW when not going to someone else.




RonOrchComp said:


> Third, what is this: "What if the composer takes that recorded performance and edits parts of it so it’s quieter or louder in parts of the performance and then when that file gets sent to a mixing engineer, it’s now not consistent". Sorry, but that makes no sense. Not sure what you are getting at there.



Using recorded material (that I own and wrote all the music) and specifically making some parts louder and some parts quieter (using automation or Clip Gain). And then bouncing that as a stem so the stem has my changes. If a mix engineer now runs this through his outboard compressors (as an example) it will be working as desired until the volume changes so my questions are pretty self explanatory and hopefully you now know what I'm getting at.



jononotbono said:


> Does the engineer clip gain it back? Automate it? Create a new channel with the quieter part and use different plugins and rack gear on those parts to suit?






RonOrchComp said:


> Fourth, why are you at_ super quiet_ levels? You shouldn't be. Your levels should be as high (loud) as possible, without clipping. You should aim for 0db, or just under. No less then -.05db. If your loudest parts are peaking at, say, -8db, your cues are not as loud as other cues that you are competing with. Guess who has a better chance here?



Because the level of the dialogue and sfx tracks dictate my writing levels. I guess I could put a Neve on them and squash them and make it "as high (loud) as possible" but why would I want to do that when I want it mixed by a professional mixing engineer when he will make everything louder? And then I will want it mastered and not having any headroom because I've made it as loud as possible? 

Thanks for your input. And Adam has basically answered my questions. Cheers.


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## Scoremixer (May 17, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> So audio that has been rendered that is super quiet, has no problem being clip gained and raised in volume? No loss of energy or anything? I didn’t think there would be a loss as it’s digital but wasn’t 100%



Yeah, no problem with that as long as you're exporting 24bit files.



jononotbono said:


> So here is another example (I’m trying to understand this because I’m not a professional mixing engineer) I’m curious about. Typically when mixing (for example) a Kick drum you would have the recorded performance and therefore consistency in recorded volume so plugins and rack gear will respond to it as the user intends. What if the composer takes that recorded performance and edits parts of it so it’s quieter or louder in parts of the performance and then when that file gets sent to a mixing engineer, it’s now not consistent. Does the engineer clip gain it back? Automate it? Create a new channel with the quieter part and use different plugins and rack gear on those parts to suit?



Well, obviously there are exceptions to every rule. But you've automated that kick drum for a reason, so why not preserve it? Typically in a project, live recordings either happen early on in the process and get integrated into the project by the composer, (at which point as a mixer you have to generally live with what they've done because rolling back to the unprocessed raw recordings would be impractical) or the recording is the last part of the chain (typically if you're doing orchestra) and goes straight to the mixer. If you've got an element that might be an issue, like a nicely recorded live kit, you could always deliver the multitrack in a straight line and then provide a bounce of your automated stem for reference. That's a luxury approach though. 



jononotbono said:


> Does the engineer clip gain it back? Automate it? Create a new channel with the quieter part and use different plugins and rack gear on those parts to suit?



All of those things... The technicalities are a non-issue. I do find myself using far less traditional wide-band compression on most mixes destined for Film/TV than I might for a band though, for the very reason that dynamic pieces make it harder to dial in that type of processing.


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## R. Soul (May 17, 2020)

RonOrchComp said:


> First, what is clip gaining? Never heard that term before.


Can't blame you, I had to Google it.

It's just the Pro Tools name for 'adjusting volume level on audio event', not some highly advanced feature. I imagine every DAW have been able to do this for close to 10 years.


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## jononotbono (May 17, 2020)

Scoremixer said:


> Yeah, no problem with that as long as you're exporting 24bit files.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks so much man. Very useful.


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## RonOrchComp (May 17, 2020)

R. Soul said:


> Can't blame you, I had to Google it.
> 
> It's just the Pro Tools name for 'adjusting volume level on audio event', not some highly advanced feature. I imagine every DAW have been able to do this for close to 10 years.



Almost sounds like _gain staging_, but why would they not just call it that.


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## NoamL (May 17, 2020)

Heya @jononotbono , I'm gonna unload with a @charlieclouser / @JohnG size post, hopefully with at least 1/4th the expertise 😆


I deliver as one file folder per cue. In case we need to change a cue I'm not re-delivering the whole score.
Do not worry about stem audio waveforms looking like they're barely there. As long as they add up to your original mockup. The more stems you have the more they'll look puny, don't worry.
Avoid plugins on the master music bus because that makes it difficult to stem. Something like a gain plugin or a static EQ will be applied the same across all your stems, so your stems will still add up to the master. But anything dynamic such as a compressor (yikes) will affect your stems individually. Therefore, route your audio to stem busses and apply any "final" processing on those busses BEFORE they go to the master music bus.
I automate the fader on the music master bus to ride the volume relative to DIA/SFX. When I print stems, this ends up replicating the old skool console workflow of having a VCA fader locking all the stems together. It's probably not best practice for the composer to dub their own music, but in my experience on TV (ymmv) the dub stage can't be trusted to deliver a good result if the composer is not present. If you deliver music too loud they just turn it down and forget about it and don't ride it against picture hardly at all. Very disappointing. It also helps get demos approved if they're already dubbed well... So, in my opinion (again more experienced people might well disagree) you are not unwise to at least propose a dub instead of delivering "flat stems" that are likely to produce a less thoughtful result.
MIX stems are always wider (more stems) than DUB stems. Dub stems might be as few as 5 to 10 on TV. Something to keep in mind on TV regarding MIX stems is that you not only send them to your mixer, but they are often the easiest way to pull up and edit a cue. It's useful therefore to keep in mind "How might I edit this cue to create a new cue at 2 am" haha. Basic stuff like separating short and long strings, keeping cymbal swells on their own stem etc. Dub stems are kind of a project-scale exercise in risk management. Across your entire score, what are the compositional elements that are likeliest to either conflict with picture or that people might get cold feet at the last minute? Those need to be isolated so that if someone says on the dub "get rid of that flute solo" they are muting a "SOLOISTS" stem not a whole "WINDS/BRASS" stem.
This is probably a nobrainer, but always deliver a FULL MIX as your very first stem to the mixer! Their job is to *understand* and *then improve* your work. The FULL MIX is also a confidence booster / safety check in case the mixer is like "LOL wtf is this at 0:30, was that intentional or are these stems botched" they can always check YOUR mix instead of texting you at 2 am.
NUMBER YOUR STEMS! oh my goodness. Picked up this trick from Joe Trapanese and it is a life saver. Of course all the pros do it. The number can be anywhere in the filename as long as it is before the STEM NAME.
For example:

MI 1m15 01 FULLMIX
MI 1m15 02 STR HI SHT
MI 1m15 03 STR LO SHT
MI 1m15 04 STR HI LONG
etc.

MI = movie initials
1m15 = cue number
01 FULLMIX = stem number and name

It is up to you whether you want to print blank stems for the mixer (i.e. print a BRASS stem even if brass are tacet in your cue). I feel it adds more confusion than it avoids?

p.s. never undo your panning! Any kind of plugin or effect that you put into your score, you should keep in the stems, UNLESS two things apply, number one you & the mixer have time to work together, and number two you're unsatisfied with the effect you used and think the mixer can do a better job. An example that leaps to mind is if you applied, like distortion to a guitar but you don't really know what you're doing, deliver the clean gtr and tell the mixer to consult your FULLMIX for how you tried to make it sound distorted.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 17, 2020)

When it comes to the overall volume, it seems to vary a lot in terms of what people do. Some will work at their calibrated level with dialogue always being king and writing "under" the dialogue with the final files being delivered at that level (so the director can just plug it in and watch with their dialogue in) while others will have much louder levels and send demos with a ton of limiting for the directors to listen to on their own. I tend to deliver mixes at the level which the composer gives them to me whether that be a realistic volume for use in the film or a "music only" volume. I believe the later is more popular with composers who record a lot of live elements like orchestra so that you're working at a higher level during those sessions.


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