# How did you learn Mixing?



## Stepan (Dec 15, 2014)

I know it's quite a general question, but everyone has his/her own approach when it comes down to Mixing, and maybe we can all learn one or two new things in this thread by sharing our experience

Personally, I attended a 2-semester-course in "media composition" at the SET (School of Entertainment and Technology) where we learned a little bit of everything, including Mixing. 
I have good ears and taste, so most of the time the combination of basic knowledge + intuition is enough, but sometimes I just can't seem to find a solution. I usually know what I'm doing when I make orchestral stuff but I can have a hard time producing music I'm not very familiar with. 
For example, a couple of months ago I started a YouTube channel and for the second episode I had to make a Goa/Psytrance track - getting the right sound (especially the bass) turned out to be sooo much harder than I thought!


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## germancomponist (Dec 15, 2014)

This is a learning process what will never end in your life, you know it. I startet mixing with a Tascam Porta Studio Casette Recorder 244.... . I have read thousends of interviews, e.t.c. , all about mixing, but then again new effects came out, side chaining, loudnessmaximizers, dynamic eq's e.t.c. ... . 

You always have to experiment. "Should I use this effect first, or this one.......?"

A so wide field!


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## RiffWraith (Dec 15, 2014)

germancomponist @ Tue Dec 16 said:


> This is a learning process what will never end in your life



Ain't that the truth.

I started by doing it. My mixes way back when sounded like ostrich balls (tho I would have never thought so back then :lol and I just got better over time. My main method was finding something that sounded great in whatever genre I was working in, and try and match my mix to that. I would try and eq things to match, and then go and listen to a comparison in different places. Different rooms - car, gf's house, etc. Come back, make adjustments, and start the process over again. I kept hearing what I was doing wrong, and was forced to figure out just what that was. This helped "tune my ear" and my mixing chops evolved. I still use commercial CDs as a reference, and still listen in different spaces, but I feel comfortable that I can get a good mix on my own first, due to the exercises I have done previously.

I also picked up some tips from various engineers from various studios that I either worked in, or hung around. Nothing that definitively made a huge difference by itself, but a tidbit here, a tidbit there helped along the way.

Cheers.


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## germancomponist (Dec 15, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Tue Dec 16 said:


> germancomponist @ Tue Dec 16 said:
> 
> 
> > This is a learning process what will never end in your life
> ...



Think only about this: https://www.izotope.com/en/products/audio-repair/rx

When we started mixing there was nothing like this on the market..., you know it!


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## chimuelo (Dec 15, 2014)

By mixing of course....


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## germancomponist (Dec 15, 2014)

As a side note: I like it very much to learn something new every day! It keeps me fit!

A good way to avoid the disease dementia!


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## MichaelL (Dec 15, 2014)

I started back in the mid 70's. I learned by watching engineers mix the projects I was working on. 

As Gunther said, the "learning never ends." After about five years, I bought a Tascam 80-8 and two Tascam mixing boards that were linked together, and set up my own project studio. My first sampler was an original emulator. Later, I replaced the TASCAM boards with a Soundcraft Ghost LE. Then came an EIII, two EIV's. I replaced the 80-8 with Digital performer, and then eventually sold the Ghost and transitioned to doing everything "in the box." Every step of the way was a new learning curve. And it continues with every new VI.

Like Gunther, I try to learn something every day. I'm older than he is so that's REALLY important! :lol: 

Currently, I read MIX, SOS and watch a lot of tutorials. I find Groove3.com (subscription) and Pensado's Place (free) to be very helpful. http://www.pensadosplace.tv

And...as I'm sure you know, VI Control is a valuable source of tech info, when people aren't on a soapbox (which only happens once in a while). I sometime save tech threads as PDF files for reference.

Best of luck.
_Michael


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## jaeroe (Dec 15, 2014)

I STARTED to learn about mixing while working at a music house (late 90's). they had a fantastic engineer who mixed most of the stuff there - worked with a lot of big names and his stuff sounded great. He was nice enough to walk me through his mixes when there was a little bit of time. He also shared his basic approach and process and the basic/general concepts. I would then bring mixes I had done for him to give feedback on. He was a curmudgeonly guy of the older generation in a lot of ways, but when he got to know you he was a really magnanimous guy.

That was all invaluable. I still suck and am too slow with it all, but I can at least give something presentable for demos and when I can't bring in a real engineer.

A really important thing that came out of that was also being able to speak intelligently and concisely when an engineer is mixing my stuff now.


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## Jem7 (Dec 16, 2014)

I learnt by doing it and being never satisfied my own mixes. Also comparing your mixes with your referance mixes helps a lot if they have similar instrumentation/orchestration or the sound you're after.


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## Leo Badinella (Dec 16, 2014)

chimuelo @ Mon Dec 15 said:


> By mixing of course....



This here.

I read everything related to mixing I could get my hands on, i bought the Audio Encyclopaedia and studied it from cover to last page. Same thing with Nika Aldridge's and Bob Katz's books. I copied and tried to recreate mixes I liked. I built a studio and recorded, mixed and produced bands. I am still learning everyday.


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## blougui (Dec 16, 2014)

Thing is, I've never approached the matching of the mixes I enjoy, be it electro, pop, hybrid scoring. I mean, listening to them and trying to match has never worked. Like in "never".
Have read hundreds of itvs plus watched the usual suspects.
I'm at the point now where I try to isolate a range of freq I seem to like on a track with the help of spectral meter inside an EQ but that doesn't help neither.
My mixes keep being cluttered, with no bass despite my efforts to get rid of the 200hz mud or something. 
I hipass the very low basses.
I try to tame the peaks with the use of compression - not too much, or sometimes by squeezing when I get bored of my poor results.
I try gain staging.
I try mixing kick and bass 1st, then the rest. Or by tracks in isolation. Or this or that.
And I'm not talking about spacialization : how to use a verb, a delay, how to pan. I find my mixes lacking of decent panning ; everything seem to be coming from the same place in the room or quite so.
And I suck at the master buss, ending with a headache cauz everything goes BANG, squashed but with less loudness than the right dudes.
Trying to reproduce, copycat, clone is one thing. Understanding what's going on in a commercial mix is quite another. And the choice of the right instruments/sounds/arrangements beforehand is paramount. I feel stuck and i'm bored, despite keeping trying.


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## reddognoyz (Dec 16, 2014)

At the expense of my clients : )


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## Markus S (Dec 16, 2014)

Very true, you never stop learning how to mix.

What helped me was to record stuff myself. The problem when mixing with samples and virtual instruments is that it often is already pre mixed or pre produced.

If you are recording you are working with rough and raw sound material and you start to understand what mixing is about. 

In example compression is often not really necessary in sampled based orchestral music. To regulate the loudness you will use your midi controllers. When you start to record, you will have those "infamous" notes that are too loud (or too quiet), or the attacks are maybe too soft and so on, stuff you might want to pull out a good compressor for.

So starting to record yourself, make a full track 100% live might help.

Also keep it simple. For now, no multi-band compressor, no side chain compression (except for that trance thing  ), no fancy loudness maximers. Master the simple tools, EQ, compressor and reverb and you will use probably a lot less of the fancy ones.


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## MichaelL (Dec 16, 2014)

reddognoyz @ Tue Dec 16 said:


> At the expense of my clients : )





+1

LOL...Stuart. I can identify. So true! :lol:


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## gsilbers (Dec 16, 2014)

Stepan @ Mon Dec 15 said:


> I know it's quite a general question, but everyone has his/her own approach when it comes down to Mixing, and maybe we can all learn one or two new things in this thread by sharing our experience
> 
> Personally, I attended a 2-semester-course in "media composition" at the SET (School of Entertainment and Technology) where we learned a little bit of everything, including Mixing.
> I have good ears and taste, so most of the time the combination of basic knowledge + intuition is enough, but sometimes I just can't seem to find a solution. I usually know what I'm doing when I make orchestral stuff but I can have a hard time producing music I'm not very familiar with.
> For example, a couple of months ago I started a YouTube channel and for the second episode I had to make a Goa/Psytrance track - getting the right sound (especially the bass) turned out to be sooo much harder than I thought!



There are a few tutorials on how to much dance music in youtube. I think the futuremusic channel site has some dj who have a few tips on the kick and bass. 
like anything... some are good, some are basic and some are dumb.


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## amordechai (Dec 16, 2014)

Roey Izhaki's Mixing Audio is an awesome book. I'm still a noob but I feel that I've improved a lot after reading it. It's very dense and has a lot of examples.

- A.


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## Stephen Rees (Dec 16, 2014)

I always wanted to write orchestral music. I started doing it with samples 15 years or so ago when the Internet was still young, and we used those fabled things called 'books' sometimes.

Every book on mixing had various chapters like 'the kick drum', 'the bass guitar', 'the vocals' etc. Although they were useful for general hints and tips, they were totally geared towards pop/rock music and we're not at all aimed at orchestral sampled music.

So I started to just do it and learned on my own (as I think most people do). But Internet forums were beginning to take hold, and I discovered the NorthernSounds forum which was full of people trying to do the same as me, only far more experienced and far more accomplished. The likes of Craig Sharmat, Bruce Richardson, Simon Ravn, Ned Bouhalassa, Maarten Spruijt and many many more. So many helpful and knowledgable people, many of whom migrated here to this forum.

So I have become more accomplished in mixing both by 'just doing it', and learning from the advice and example of many others.

This forum has become a vast resource for anyone wanted to make recordings with both virtual and real instruments. Anyone wanting to learn how to do it has much of the resources they need right here.

I am grateful to those folks who have both knowingly and unknowingly have helped me on my way.


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## germancomponist (Dec 16, 2014)

There is another thing that I forgot to mention how you can learn a lot: Do covers! Cover the music you like and compare! I always did it by my ears only.

In the very past I covered many songs and got payed very good for this... .


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## MichaelL (Dec 16, 2014)

Stephen Rees @ Tue Dec 16 said:


> I always wanted to write orchestral music. I started doing it with samples 15 years or so ago when the Internet was still young, and we used those fabled things called 'books' sometimes.
> 
> Every book on mixing had various chapters like 'the kick drum', 'the bass guitar', 'the vocals' etc. Although they were useful for general hints and tips, they were totally geared towards pop/rock music and we're not at all aimed at orchestral sampled music.
> 
> ...





+1

Here are a few more links:

I've picked up some good mixing advice here:
http://www.audiovibes-studios.com/wordpress/tutorials/

Alex is on the forum often. He's also a source of good info.

https://www.youtube.com/user/alexpfefferdotnet


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## lux (Dec 16, 2014)

I also think thats a never ending learning process. A mixing session represents a "creation" itself, able to generate new sounds out of old ones, to let a track fly over times and spaces. 

It also very much depends on the styles involved. Paradoxally mixing a pop, rock or dance song can be such a pita because you have hundred references and possible directions. There the "choice" is a pretty much relevant part of the game. The sound you're after, in other words.

Personally I had the best benefits from learning a few rudiments of the art of scooping from engineers, often friends. It goes hand in hand with trying to learn the "right" frequency range of each instrument, was it orchestral or not. Most common mixing errors come out of a limited consideration of each instruments range. Typically the bass range is the most sensitive part of a mix. And only a part of the instruments included in a mix deserve a place within that range. 

Mixing is like Tetris. You need to handle shapes to fit a space. Removing unwanted frequencies out of instruments is one of the keys. The great engineer is the one who keeps most of the juice in the sounds while shaping them to create a mix.


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## germancomponist (Dec 16, 2014)

lux @ Tue Dec 16 said:


> I also think thats a never ending learning process. A mixing session represents a "creation" itself, able to generate new sounds out of old ones, to let a track fly over times and spaces.
> 
> It also very much depends on the styles involved. Paradoxally mixing a pop, rock or dance song can be such a pita because you have hundred references and possible directions. There the "choice" is a pretty much relevant part of the game. The sound you're after, in other words.
> 
> ...



I underline all what you are saying!


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## wst3 (Dec 16, 2014)

I haven't yet, as many others have stated, it's a life long process. 

How did I get started?

Same as many here - in the mid 1970s I started sweeping floors, running for food or coffee, soldering patchbays, whatever it took to become somewhat valuable at a couple local studios.

And then I say quietly and watched. Or moved microphones around. Or went out for more food.

I ended up with a front row seat, and I learned more about recording and mixing from that experience than any other single thing I've done, within a compressed time frame... if that makes sense.

I also read everything I could get my hands on - artist interviews, equipment manuals, even a couple of books. (If you can find a copy, read Runstein's first edition of "Modern Recording" - it's geared towards rock and roll, and it is certainly dated, but I got so much from that one volume!)

Certainly I've learned a lot by just mixing, but I think the framework that those early mentors provided makes learning to do things myself a bit easier now.

I would imagine that videos ought to be a great way to teach - but the few I've looked at didn't offer much. That might be solely because I'm an old fart. I really don't have a good way to judge.

The other thing I'd suggest is ear training. I was probably subjected to it way back when, but we weren't smart enough to call it that.

Dave Moulton's Golden Ears series is the best course you can buy. I can't recommend it highly enough. I had a copy, I spent quite a bit of time with it, and then foolishly sold it to a friend who needed it. I suspect I'll end up buying another copy for myself.


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## pixel (Dec 17, 2014)

+1 "never stop learning" 

Every mix is like a new journey into unknown (more or less)and with every new track I always have to discover something new. 


I started without any knowledge with few magazines before internet comes to my life. 
After few years I had opportunity to watch and read internet tutorials where I learn that 80% of this "knowledge" was a crap :wink: 
By getting better equipment I have learned that internet is full of "overprocessing" type of tutorials. I can make good mix with just few steps. Source and arrangement is 80% of successful mix.

And now I decide to go to school! (you're never too old to back to school :D ) because now I'm in different country with totally different education system than in my small country


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## amordechai (Dec 17, 2014)

that is an amazing free online resource for ear training: 
https://www.goldenears.philips.com/en/challenge.html#


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## Stepan (Dec 18, 2014)

Wow, thank you guys! 
Lots of informative, as well as inspiring stuff has been said so far!


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## PMortise (Dec 18, 2014)

reddognoyz @ Tue Dec 16 said:


> At the expense of my clients : )


Good one.


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## shapeshifter00 (Dec 18, 2014)

http://therecordingrevolution.com/ is also a good site to learn things, easy to understand and often good tips that don't cost a lot.


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## Allegro (Dec 18, 2014)

I have been lucky to be making multi genre music (Romantic Orchestral Soundtracks to say, Uplifting trance or Melbourne Bounce) and while I have a lot to learn with mixing. Working in different genres taught me a lot of things. Here are a couple of things i couldn't find in mixing tutorials. They sound meh but really help practically. Pensados Place & Recording Revolution tutorials are really helpful though. This is where i started tbh.

Pay special attention to gain staging and transients in EDM. 
Sometimes you just can't get two sounds to sit in the mix together, there are compromises. 
Your sound sources are as imp as your mix. 
Try fixing the problem from its source or the one closer to the source.
For loudness, the lower you go in the freq spectrum, below 1-2k , the more headroom it will take but will not sound as Loud because of how our ears perceive frequencies. 
Squash your mix like crazy, temporarily, it will really exaggerate things that should be fixed. Unsquash, fix, ?profit??

Lastly, when you're having a bad day, set the compressor ratio to 3:1 with a medium attack and release, then read this sentence just to find out that I was kidding.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Dec 18, 2014)

This is how I learnt whatever I know till now (in no particular order as such):

1. Keep writing music and learning. Lots and lots of tracks...!

2. Experimentation in the process - lots of it! 

3. Analyzing mixes you like and comparing your sound

4. Realizing that there is more in the arrangement and the orchestration. Choosing the right instruments and samples. Learning why some things work and why some don't. Then breaking the rules of course 

5. Feedback from good friends you trust and admire. I took lots of feedback from V.I Control over the years. 

6. Reading up a ton on how most of the equipment works and what it was designed to do. Manuals, interviews, case studies. 

7. Trusting my ears and focusing on what I am really hearing. This is a tricky one because it is difficult sometimes to focus and take the track apart in a way. But with time, you get good at it. 

8. VSL forum early on and then V.I Control. I learnt a lot here from some great folks who have been kind enough and willing to share their thoughts and experiences. Some of them have been helping me in one way or another for over 10 years.

9. The pressure of working in the industry - staying up till very late to working hard! It is amazing how focused you can be sometimes when there is pressure of a deadline and get yourself in line. But training is important for it to kick in when the time is right. I did learn a lot of things on the job as well. 

10. Working with musicians, engineers, discussing ideas, learning - listening to them and applying the techniques. 

11. Setting up a system and reference for yourself. I keep my volume knob on only two settings - Low and comfortable high. I will almost never change that. I shuttle between these two modes. 

12. The magic of orchestration, the tonalities of different instruments and key signatures! Knowing about the resonances of different keys. After a while, you know what key your idea will sound good in. F and F# are more resonant in the bass regions for example. Stuff like that. A gives a sort of thick mud sound at times.

13. Resting your ears and taking breaks. Ears are very complicated and they can get used to something very quickly. It is important to take breaks to retain that objectivity. Remember how things sound very different the next morning? 


Sorry for the long post! Hope this helps 


Tanuj.


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## waveheavy (Dec 28, 2014)

Great thread.

I noticed back the '70's, a lot of LP mixes were kind of 'raw' sounding compared to the tightness of mixes today (Wishbone Ash). They didn't use pitch shifting to correct vocal mistakes, etc. Albums like Deep Purple's 'Burn' and stuff produced by Alan Parsons (Dark Side Of The Moon) and the Alan Parson Project showed a lot of precision in the analog world, maybe changed the game a bit.

For me, learning mixing means finding one gifted to teach it, because it's still an art although the tools are exact science. I find Fab Dupont one of those very gifted teachers; he makes things so simple (see his website Puremix).

A mix engineer I studied under for about a year said there are 3 major points in a mix, with phase correction between tracks being one of the major ones, because if it's not fixed nothing else done later will help. Getting initial balances listening in Mono he stressed a whole lot, where phase issues will easily show up. Gain staging one was of the most difficult things for me to learn, because based on the music genre, having to boost the final mix level too much can ruin the whole feel and groove of the song.


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## reset85 (Jan 4, 2015)

Mostly by reading loads and loads of posts on Gearslutz (not books) and...

...by LISTENING actively. Everywhere, at every hour of the day, in every situation. Always asking myself "oh, what range of frequencies is occupying (for ex.) this annoying burglar alarm?"; "Hey, this bathroom's reverb has very strong Early Reflections". This constant and slow process was key to sharpen my ears.

What I've learned? That the most important things for me (to date) are:
1. Phase
2. Balance (levels and panpot); has to be done before any eq,comp,rev etc
3. Subtractive EQ
4. Always keep a clear psychological image of how your mix has to sound like.
5. Automation for excitement

There are many more obviously...

Cheers


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## Patrick_Gill (Jan 5, 2015)

I was mentored some what for sound engineering but there will come a time where people can only really point you in the right direction, the rest is all down to practice like everything - especially with mixing. Not to mention everybody will have their own idea of what sounds good, their own internal sonic blueprint.

Once you know enough to stand up straight you have to train your ears and the only way to really do that is by a LOT of listening and analysing of recordings. There's no easy way around it 

In the same way you would analyse a piece of music and how it's composed. Instead analyse the frequencies of each instrument instead, trying to figure out where the instruments belong in the EQ spectrum, panning, placement, the stereo field etc etc. For me what really helped was loading up a 10-band EQ with a medium Q isn point and literally sweeping every sound you want to study (e.g violin) from 20hz all the way to 20000khz (the Low, Mids, Hi's). By doing this you learn where the instruments low and hi fundamentals start so you'll get an idea of the instruments frequency range. Take a violin for example. I know it roughly starts around 200hz and there isn't any properties in the sound usually below that so i'll roll them off with the high pass straight away to free up room for the cello, violas etc. 

The best way I think to approach EQ is subtractive, you're essentially separating frequencies and giving the instruments their own little hole to sit in and mixing everything to the loudest instrument whilst ensuring a correct gain structure… usually the bass drum or subsonic frequencies will be the loudest. As you begin to strip away the harsh frequencies with your EQ and the crap that's not needed you'll be left with just the sound.

A good way to visualise a mix it is like a tree. The thicker the trunk the stronger the tree. Lets say the kick drum is the trunk, (usually because it's slap bang in the middle), I'm talking an electronic kick or rock kick but I also have my Timpani centralised. Anyways, I've found the bigger the kick drum/bass drum, bass and the better balanced they both are against each other ultimately the louder and bigger your mix will translate and the easier it will be for everything else to slot into place… It ultimately gets wider too. The kick/bass drum has a huge potential decibel range and fundamentally it's the loudest instrument which is why I always mix everything to it.

Waffling now haha.

It really depends what you're trying to achieve so it's good to have a listening reference. Personally I love dynamics, compression, punch and clarity over a slammed or squashed mix. I like to be able to hear whats going on with everything instrument.

I'd definitely recommend listening to a lot of older LP's and recordings as well as new. In particular albums by Quincy Jones, Michael Jackson - Thriller. Pink Floyd. Ennio Morricone. Alan Silvestri - Predator. Predator 2 Deluxe… (both of these are sonic masterpieces imo). 


Ooh this chart is awesome too!
http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm (http://www.independentrecording.net/irn ... isplay.htm)

Patrick.


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## BoulderBrow (Jan 5, 2015)

Nice diagram Patrick!


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## H.R. (Jan 5, 2015)

A very good tutorial series:
http://www.tischmeyer-mastering.de/pwde/default.asp?lang=DE (http://www.tischmeyer-mastering.de/pwde ... sp?lang=DE)

Little old but still helps.


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## Onlinefrank (Jan 6, 2015)

I learned it from here:
http://hofa-college.de/fernkurse/pro/


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## Biome_Digital (Jan 6, 2015)

I learned myself over the last 20 years. No formal training.


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## Consona (Jan 10, 2015)

My early mixes were terrible but I'm getting better and better with every mix.
My the most important observation is:
Balance > everything else. You can low-cut, eq, compress, whatever but when your track does not sit well in the mix without effects you cannot fix it by adding effects. Sometimes eq helps a lot but basic volume and pan placement is fundamental starting point. After that starting point things can change a lot but without it, it is just a mess.
So for me the most difficult and important thing these days is to be able to find the right volume level for each track.


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