# Does this smell spammy/scammy to you?



## ryst (Mar 16, 2016)

I got a couple emails from someone but I am always skeptical of the validity of emails like this. I already have 2 legit music licensing deals so I'm certainly not desperate here. Just want to get other people's opinions.

Anyway, smells fishy to me. BTW, I kept the names of the company and person out of this. The company is based in Vienna. The person does have their website, email and phone number at the bottom of every email. The website also states: "Established 2016".


Person* - "Hello Nathan, 

I came across your soundcloud profile some weeks ago and I have to admit that I really enjoyed to have a listen. Very nice vibes, big ups! 

However, I was wondering if you could be interested in working together at some point. I am currently working for several labels and on various compilations. I think you could be quite a good match and I am confident that I know somebody that is willing to feature your music. 

Please hit me back as soon as possible, so that I can provide you with proper information. 

All the best,"

*
My response:
*
Hi,

Thanks for writing. What songs did you listen to?

Also, what do you mean by "working together"? More info would be great.

Thanks!
*

Person's response:
*
Hello,

Thanks for the almost immediate reply! I listened to your whole discography on Soundcloud, but what I enjoyed the most were soundtrack-related tracks. 
What I mean by working together at some point, is to maybe help you to get featured on a compilation for example. I think your sound suits our current roster. 

First of all, I want to tell you a bit about what I do as a publisher. I send out demos (your music) to various labels and other musical institutions. If somebody is interested and drops me a message, I negotiate the deal with them. If we land a deal, I will forward you all the details (releasedate, who, etc). That’s basically what we do. 

Attached to my email are our conditions we currently work with, so that you can have a proper look over. It is a standard agreement based on a non-exclusive basis.

What I would need to start working is a) a signed agreement and b) the master files of the tracks you want to submit (.wav file format/44.1 kHz/16 bit).
You can use wetransfer.com for submitting your files, also information about yourself (bio) or booking can be added here, but is optional.

Also if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. 
Kind regards, 
*

Then the person attached the contract which read as follows:

*
Music Publishing Agreement

Between 

Artist: 

Real Name: 

Birthdate: 

E-Mail: 

hereby named “The Artist”

and

hereby named “The Company”

Music Publishing

The Artist hereby grants The Company the right to deliver 

music titles submitted by The Artist to Labels, TV and Film for commercial use.

1., Territory 

Territory is the world.


2., Duration

The duration of this agreement is one year with an automated extension of another year unless The Artist terminates the contract and after The Company received a signed termination request by The Artist. 

3., Fees 

The Company doesn't charge any fees for its services. However, In case of a successful deal between The Company and a third party (Label, TV, Commercial, Film). The Company receives a commission of 50% (fifty percent) of the net receipts generated by the deal. The Artist receives 50% (fifty percent) of the net receipts. 

4., Accounting

The Company sends royalty statements on a quarterly basis to The Artist. Once The Artist has reached the threshold of 70€ (seventy euros) The Company transfers the generated royalties to The Artists bank account.

5., Exclusivity 

The agreement between The Artist and The Company is built on a non-exclusive basis and allows The Artist to release music with a third party. 

6., Rights

The Artist guarantees the copyright ownership of the submitted recordings.

Any modifications or changes in this contract shall be in written form and in agreement of both parties.

Contract is subject to Austrian Right. Jurisdiction is the commercial court of Vienna. *

*
*
Your thoughts on all this?


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 16, 2016)

That is a kind of method to aqcuire new clients and I guess he or she or whoever send thousands of that mails around. I would ask for a legal representation (website and company etc.) and what kind of clients they have and I would ask very specific questions because all their answers there are very much of a non specific thing and they feel like copy paste answers.
Just my opinion..and yes it smells a bit not totally rotten..so I would be careful because I don´t believe that they are so much interested in your music as they are trying to engage just new opportunities this way.


----------



## Daryl (Mar 16, 2016)

At this point you know nothing about this company. Certainly if it a Worldwide company it means Web based and no sales team. You need to find out more about this company, and why they think they can take on the "big boys". I'm not saying that they can't; just that they haven't proved themselves to you yet. Look at all the other Library companies out there, look at what music they are selling and ask yourself:

Can they really compete with the others?
Is the rest of the music on that site any good? If not, it doesn't matter whether or not you're any good, because no reputable client will ever hear your stuff.


----------



## Baron Greuner (Mar 16, 2016)

Normally wouldn't comment on this part of the forum but not quite sure why DOB is necessary.


----------



## Tatu (Mar 16, 2016)

So.. they pitch your work for libraries etc and take a cut? Sort of a manager but operates via soundcloud messages. I've had a few of these.. usually they get banned after a while (I never respond to them). Indeed ask for more specifics, details and solid references, now that you've established some form of communications.

BTW; Did he actually listen to your tracks? If you have soundcloud pro, you can sometimes see it from the stats.


----------



## RiffWraith (Mar 16, 2016)

Sounds as tho it could be legit - like someone is just sending around emails to get new clients, as Alexander alluded to. Kinda like cold calling.

The one thing that bugs me is this:



ryst said:


> The Company receives a commission of 50% (fifty percent) of the net receipts generated by the deal. The Artist receives 50% (fifty percent) of the net receipts.



I am not the world's foremost expert here, but from what I know,_ net receipts_ pertains to mechanical royalties (physical units sold [albums, CDs, books]), and not performance royalties. Are you selling physical copies of your music? No? Then there are no net receipts. Don't they already know that? As it pertains to performance royalties, there are _gross receipts_ - what the PROS take for administrative and operating expenses. But _net receipts_??? You can do some research here - and if you find anything that contradicts what I have said, please let me know.

If I were you, I'd email this person back and ask what "net receipts" means. Just ask, and see what they come back with. Then, maybe get into more detail when you respond to that email. But put the onus on them.

Cheers.


----------



## Ethos (Mar 16, 2016)

I get those a lot. I think they are basically "boutique" (aka small start-up) music libraries.


----------



## Daryl (Mar 16, 2016)

RiffWraith said:


> I am not the world's foremost expert here, but from what I know,_ net receipts_ pertains to mechanical royalties (physical units sold [albums, CDs, books]), and not performance royalties. Are you selling physical copies of your music? No? Then there are no net receipts.


It's a slightly odd way of phrasing, but they could well be correct, under two circumstances:

They use a Sub-Publisher in order to get more clients. In that case the Sub takes a percentage, so the writer will only get 50% of what they receive. As they don't receive the gross amount charged, I guess it could be called net receipts.
If a foreign territory has a withholding tax, it means that the amount the Publisher receives is not the gross that was paid.
The thing to watch for here is that "net" in their minds doesn't mean "after we have paid all our expenses for hosting your music on our website, and the bar bill for the client has bee dealt with".


----------



## Daryl (Mar 16, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> Normally wouldn't comment on this part of the forum but not quite sure why DOB is necessary.


Because most contracts state that the writer must be over 18.


----------



## Baron Greuner (Mar 16, 2016)

Which is madness because most people just make one up.


----------



## JohnG (Mar 16, 2016)

That looks half baked to me. Address of the "company?" What is your split of royalties / license fees? Do they agree to get your name on the cue sheet for PRO? A fair amount of binding you to them, but not very expansive on what you get out of it other than their marketing efforts. Which of course would be invisible to you; there is no way to find out what they are doing. And "Austrian Right" is an odd wording -- not like anything I've seen before.

Who is on their "roster" now? Do you agree you are a good fit?

Unless this is someone you know personally or know well someone who's done business with them, I would pass. It's either fishy or just amateurish. Either way.


----------



## babylonwaves (Mar 16, 2016)

just call them. speaking to somebody in person always helps when in doubt.


----------



## ryst (Mar 16, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> That is a kind of method to aqcuire new clients and I guess he or she or whoever send thousands of that mails around. I would ask for a legal representation (website and company etc.) and what kind of clients they have and I would ask very specific questions because all their answers there are very much of a non specific thing and they feel like copy paste answers.
> Just my opinion..and yes it smells a bit not totally rotten..so I would be careful because I don´t believe that they are so much interested in your music as they are trying to engage just new opportunities this way.



Yeah that was my gut feeling as well. Also, they didn't name any of my tracks they listened to but instead gave a very vague answer and the contract itself looked a bit sparse.



Daryl said:


> At this point you know nothing about this company. Certainly if it a Worldwide company it means Web based and no sales team. You need to find out more about this company, and why they think they can take on the "big boys". I'm not saying that they can't; just that they haven't proved themselves to you yet. Look at all the other Library companies out there, look at what music they are selling and ask yourself:
> 
> Can they really compete with the others?
> Is the rest of the music on that site any good? If not, it doesn't matter whether or not you're any good, because no reputable client will ever hear your stuff.



There site has no music on it. Just a vimeo video on the main page. Nothing else that even describes the company.


----------



## ryst (Mar 16, 2016)

Tatu said:


> So.. they pitch your work for libraries etc and take a cut? Sort of a manager but operates via soundcloud messages. I've had a few of these.. usually they get banned after a while (I never respond to them). Indeed ask for more specifics, details and solid references, now that you've established some form of communications.
> 
> BTW; Did he actually listen to your tracks? If you have soundcloud pro, you can sometimes see it from the stats.



He actually emailed me. It wasn't through soundcloud. So he had to search for my email address because it's not on my profile.


----------



## ryst (Mar 16, 2016)

JohnG said:


> That looks half baked to me. Address of the "company?" What is your split of royalties / license fees? Do they agree to get your name on the cue sheet for PRO? A fair amount of binding you to them, but not very expansive on what you get out of it other than their marketing efforts. Which of course would be invisible to you; there is no way to find out what they are doing. And "Austrian Right" is an odd wording -- not like anything I've seen before.
> 
> Who is on their "roster" now? Do you agree you are a good fit?
> 
> Unless this is someone you know personally or know well someone who's done business with them, I would pass. It's either fishy or just amateurish. Either way.



Yeah that was my thought as well.


----------



## Daryl (Mar 16, 2016)

ryst said:


> There site has no music on it. Just a vimeo video on the main page. Nothing else that even describes the company.


Hmm well my advice would be:


----------



## JohnG (Mar 16, 2016)

awesome Daryl


----------



## afterlight82 (Mar 16, 2016)

LOL to mickey blue eyes.

To that contract...



Net receipts - net of _what_? (the guy could say, hey, it cost me a million dollars to market it to the label, and that was a cost reducing your payment to nothing). Which performing rights societies? Audit rights? What about territories where the writer is already a member of a PRS which pays them directly, do they get billed by this company for half of writer's share? Want to sue and fly to Vienna if anything goes wrong? (not that that clause would likely be enforceable). Indemnification? Reverse indemnification? Good faith renewal? Renewal terms after two years? Third party infringement? Use of name and likeness? (Insert at least 10 other things)...


----------



## JohnG (Mar 16, 2016)

this is turning into the best thread in some time. Do we have a Godfather clip? Maybe, "Analyze This?"


----------



## ryst (Mar 17, 2016)

This is how I usually handle business.


----------



## owenave (Mar 17, 2016)

Yes there is no way to know what this persons deal is with the main publisher and what % he is really getting. And what the real expenses are like someone else stated. Some deals are just not worth the time and or lack of real money to get involved with. They end up making a bunch of money and you don't end up getting hardly anything. Unless they can prove by some testimonials from some other clients of real success I would pass myself.


----------



## Cruciform (Mar 17, 2016)

If your music is good enough to be with a publisher/library then you don't need a middleman taking a cut for basically doing what the publisher would do anyway.


----------



## gpax (Mar 17, 2016)

To me, the tone lacks expected professional conventions for introducing one's services or a business, especially in making a professional pitch. There's an almost overly familiar relationship being assumed here, including the eager follow up with all the details. While probably legitimate, I personally would be weary of the level of experience the communication suggests.


----------

