# JunkieXL's new VEPro Template



## marclawsonmusic (Feb 3, 2015)

Since there are precious few people in the world who truly appreciate this stuff...

Tom Holkenborg (aka JunkieXL) recently tweeted a bunch of pictures of his new VEPro setup. This template is MASSIVE - 3800 tracks running on 6 VEPro servers hosted in Cubase 8. Looking at some of the pics, it looks like they are VisionDAW boxes.

https://twitter.com/Junkie_XL

If you have ever spent countless hours building your own template, I think you will appreciate the tenacity, care and outright _madness_ that goes into building something this huge. My (geek) jaw was on the floor.


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## Qomodo (Feb 3, 2015)

*Re: JunkieXL's VEPro Template*

Insane...

Nearly touching the 1tb Ram domain...


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## SymphonicSamples (Feb 3, 2015)

Thanks for the link !! Love the tech . That's some serious power available throughout the network . Would be amazing to see a system like that running up close .


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## stonzthro (Feb 3, 2015)

I love that at the top of his rack is an Art Digital MPA!


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## Mike Marino (Feb 3, 2015)

Somebody's been a busy bee, lol. Geeeeezzzzz! That's supremely impressive! Nice find, Marc.


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## gsilbers (Feb 3, 2015)

must be dawnting to start something with such a huge template... so many options!


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## gsilbers (Feb 3, 2015)

wow.. each visiondaw would almost $10k each. x6.


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## Amey Ghule (Feb 3, 2015)

Ohh...My...God!! :shock:


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## Ozymandias (Feb 3, 2015)

Interesting.

I wonder how easy it is to "mix as you go" in a template like this. Can the audio side in Cubase be made to follow MIDI track selection? Or does he have to sift through those ~2400(?) audio returns manually?


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## Jetzer (Feb 3, 2015)

What's also cool is that he said it boots in 18 minutes. 

8)


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## rpaillot (Feb 3, 2015)

Ozymandias @ Tue Feb 03 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I wonder how easy it is to "mix as you go" in a template like this. Can the audio side in Cubase be made to follow MIDI track selection? Or does he have to sift through those ~2400(?) audio returns manually?



In Cubase you can assign a midi track to its audio return. This way you can see your audio fader on the left inspector bar, as well as the inserts . very handy !


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## Dryden.Chambers (Feb 3, 2015)

How can you just buy a Mac pro and still be depressed, this! lol

32 Zebra, 32 Diva : )

Han's can you sneak in there one night and pull some plugs ? : )


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## Ryan (Feb 3, 2015)

Feels like I'm from the stone age.. How can I work now.. Depressed.


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## BGvanRens (Feb 3, 2015)

This is insane... Indeed, it did make my jaw hit the floor!


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## José Herring (Feb 3, 2015)

That's just damn cool!


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## tokatila (Feb 3, 2015)




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## givemenoughrope (Feb 3, 2015)

I prefer the Cliff Martinez or Charlie Clouser setup (or the other person around here who is working portable with a MBP, 2 Minis). Although horses..courses..

It looks like he is mixing most of the instruments in quad (with low stuff out the boom channel i'm sure) as opposed to 5 channels. Doesn't Hans do 5 channels with the understanding that the center channel will be pushed to either side (or something to that effect)?

Very cool though. I like that he takes the time to create and label granular/sound design patches. I'm realizing that stuff is as much if not more 'know what you're going for' as opposed to 'happy accident' with the options we have between Machfive Ircam, Halion 5 and the rest.


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## gsilbers (Feb 3, 2015)

im surprised he switched from logic to Cubase. 

well he used logic for midi and pro tools for audio.


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## Lawson. (Feb 3, 2015)

:shock: 

I am speechless…


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 3, 2015)

Somewhere between this tech hell and John Williams' pencil is my butter zone.


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## gsilbers (Feb 3, 2015)

well, the one harry gregson William has is also crazy. mainly because he has the slaves going into a pro tools system with effects, then from that PT it goes to the PT for stems. 
but with this one seems like all audio effects are being hosted in the main DAW.


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 3, 2015)

looks like he's mixing in 4.1 in cubase?


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## milesito (Feb 3, 2015)

Honestly I am not too sure I could scale vepro in logic to that extent. I don't think it is practical based on the need to load so many ve pro instances to distribute the load amongst the cores.


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## pkm (Feb 3, 2015)

milesito @ Tue Feb 03 said:


> Honestly I am not too sure I could scale vepro in logic to that extent. I don't think it is practical based on the need to load so many ve pro instances to distribute the load amongst the cores.



There's a limit to how many instances you can connect from a single server in Logic. It's around 75 VEP instances. So you'd need ~50 computers to reach 3800 separate tracks.


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## José Herring (Feb 3, 2015)

You would need vst3 to do what he's doing.


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## marclawsonmusic (Feb 3, 2015)

Guy Rowland @ Tue Feb 03 said:


> Somewhere between this tech hell and John Williams' pencil is my butter zone.


Haha! :D


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## germancomponist (Feb 3, 2015)

Way toooo many tracks for me, but everyone should work the way he likes.


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## ryanstrong (Feb 3, 2015)

Front / Back... would you assume that is close vs far mics/channels?


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## Dryden.Chambers (Feb 3, 2015)

I wrote a piece with 12 tracks recently, shame on me! : )


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## gsilbers (Feb 3, 2015)

i guess we can expect a mad max drum 
sample library. 
check the link in the 1st post again


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## Tatu (Feb 3, 2015)

One would have to copy-paste MIDI regions to death with that set up. Nice.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Feb 3, 2015)

Does anyone know if he still has the studio at RCP? With this setup at home I don't see why he'd still use his studio at RCP.


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## Jetzer (Feb 3, 2015)

^You can find that & more information here: 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun14/a ... k-0614.htm

Looks like they take security very, very seriously at RCP, which I understand, but still fun to read.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Feb 4, 2015)

JH @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> ^You can find that & more information here:
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun14/a ... k-0614.htm
> 
> Looks like they take security very, very seriously at RCP, which I understand, but still fun to read.



That article is fairly old which is why I'm wondering if he's completely ditched the RCP studio since he has these new slaves and practicaly an identical setup at home


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## Rctec (Feb 4, 2015)

This is the beginning of a new project Junkie and I are working on. Junkie leading the charge, really challenging some of my paradigms and taking us all to another level. Actually, its incredibly easy to manage and display/hide this amount of tracks in Cubase 8. He's been on Cubase for quite a while now. He'll have the same setup at RCP. We are just starting to get really into some serious technology leaps. Mark Wherry and the RCP team are working on something big as far as sheer computing horsepower goes.


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 4, 2015)

That SOS article was pretty informative. Thanks.

It's not a big deal to have a ton of midi tracks in Cubase. I might have 600 to almost 2k depending on the template all in folders and subfolders; kontakts either loaded but empty or with purged samples. The problem I'm having is seeing everything in the arrange window. I've started to drag the midi tracks I'm actually using into a new folder and then fold and tuck away everything else. Even then, I can have about 40 tracks without scrolling on a 32 inch monitor. It's making me want to start to move towards less midi tracks with deeper expression maps not just for strings, etc but for synths (a lot of times I'll duplicate a synth and alter the arp pattern or envelopes and jump between them). 

So how do you large track count users deal with all of this visually without going bonkers? Folders don't always cut it as a total strategy for me thus far.


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## Ryan (Feb 4, 2015)

Gerhard Westphalen @ 4/2/2015 said:


> JH @ Wed Feb 04 said:
> 
> 
> > ^You can find that & more information here:
> ...



As a father of two I fully understand this type of setup...


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 4, 2015)

givemenoughrope @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> That SOS article was pretty informative. Thanks.
> 
> It's not a big deal to have a ton of midi tracks in Cubase. I might have 600 to almost 2k depending on the template all in folders and subfolders; kontakts either loaded but empty or with purged samples. The problem I'm having is seeing everything in the arrange window. I've started to drag the midi tracks I'm actually using into a new folder and then fold and tuck away everything else. Even then, I can have about 40 tracks without scrolling on a 32 inch monitor. It's making me want to start to move towards less midi tracks with deeper expression maps not just for strings, etc but for synths (a lot of times I'll duplicate a synth and alter the arp pattern or envelopes and jump between them).
> 
> So how do you large track count users deal with all of this visually without going bonkers? Folders don't always cut it as a total strategy for me thus far.



I don't think dragging tracks would work well for me. It's all well and good, but of course the moment you want a different track, you're back to square one - well, maybe a slightly more confused square one as you've dragged the first violins somewhere else and now you want the second. Cubase has its visibility agents which might help. The one we really want is "all used midi tracks and their associated VI outputs", but that doesn't exist (though I think someone wrote a macro for it). Even then you're back and forthing a lot.

Although I'm merely at the 500-600 track level, the really basic technique I use is track folders and subfolders. Most things are collapsed on launch, and I just expand the ones as I need them. Keeps everything logically together and stops endless moving between different modes, while also stopping you losing a fortnight every time you scroll up and down.


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## Waywyn (Feb 4, 2015)

That is an awesome setup. Having everything at hand you will ever need!
Because of all the awesome new hide functions in Cubase a setup like this wouldn't even be confusing!

Just make sure to not forget that you can at least have a light version of this at home.
Simply create a big template as much RAM you have and then disable the instrument tracks you need the least. Basically you can have a template of 3000+ tracks at home by disabling them all, save this project as template and just activate the tracks you want to work with. If you assign disable/enable with a simple shortcut, life becomes pretty easy!


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 4, 2015)

Guy, even with folders I'm scrolling and unfolding more than I should be. It means that I'm stuck between keeping tracks of all of these tracks in my head (right, I know) as opposed to just seeing them on the screen. If I need another track (say the 2nd violin shorts or arp 4) I know where it is and it takes 4 seconds to grab it. No big deal. 

Where did you read about that macro? I've actually never thought of that. I would try that for sure.


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## arnau (Feb 4, 2015)

Hi Guy, do you know any shortcut to expand/collapse a folder track in Cubase?? 

Thanks,
Arnau


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## marclawsonmusic (Feb 4, 2015)

Waywyn @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> Simply create a big template as much RAM you have and then _disable the instrument tracks_ you need the least.


This is a great suggestion and how I was able to get more mileage out of my Logic VEPro template (only a paltry 600 tracks). 

I leave the VEPro plugins disabled (bypassed) until I need them. Then, I hit a button on my MIDI controller that sends a CC to activate it (un-bypass). It's an easy way to save CPU.


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## germancomponist (Feb 4, 2015)

Waywyn @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> That is an awesome setup. Having everything at hand you will ever need!
> Because of all the awesome new hide functions in Cubase a setup like this wouldn't even be confusing!
> 
> Just make sure to not forget that you can at least have a light version of this at home.
> Simply create a big template as much RAM you have and then disable the instrument tracks you need the least. Basically you can have a template of 3000+ tracks at home by disabling them all, save this project as template and just activate the tracks you want to work with. If you assign disable/enable with a simple shortcut, life becomes pretty easy!



Hey, thinking about it in this way makes sense, also for me, one of whom never liked to look at so many tracks ... .


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 4, 2015)

arnau @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> Hi Guy, do you know any shortcut to expand/collapse a folder track in Cubase??
> 
> Thanks,
> Arnau



I don't I'm afraid, but confess I haven't really looked.


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## Saxer (Feb 4, 2015)

is it really easier to have all those tracks loaded, purged and switched off until you need it instead of importing tracks on demand?


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 4, 2015)

Folders and subfolders are great and necessary but just mess with the macros and combine some presets and you can very easily hide and unhide tracks not in use. Macros...where have you been all my cubase life? Right under my nose apparently. I'll post some later but a simple search yields loads of useful ones.


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## milesito (Feb 4, 2015)

all i know is that with logic and about 500 tracks and 70ish ve-pro instances (approximately 7 insgtruments per instance), it takes like 10-12 seconds to save my project...which is a pain, but still worth the value of ve-pro...


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## Allen Constantine (Feb 4, 2015)

Musical wonders!


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Feb 4, 2015)

milesito @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> all i know is that with logic and about 500 tracks and 70ish ve-pro instances (approximately 7 insgtruments per instance), it takes like 10-12 seconds to save my project...which is a pain, but still worth the value of ve-pro...



Are you working decoupled? When decoupled I believe the saving time should be quicker.


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## dtonthept (Feb 4, 2015)

From the ongoing Twitter photos he's posted there were close ups of a lot of the touchscreen macros which included a lot of visibility options for different groups - pretty damn cool!


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## dtonthept (Feb 4, 2015)

Rctec @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> We are just starting to get really into some serious technology leaps. Mark Wherry and the RCP team are working on something big as far as sheer computing horsepower goes.



This sounds very cool! Can you share any broad (or specific!) hints about what you guys are cooking up?


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## Dryden.Chambers (Feb 4, 2015)

Just remember one thing. As my mentor quite often reminds me, The Beatles and George Martin did it with 4 and 8 tracks. Apples and oranges of course, but I think something to always keep in the back of your mind.


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 4, 2015)

https://twitter.com/Junkie_XL/status/563109357076758529

ugh...what?


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## 24dBFS (Feb 5, 2015)

I really love Junkie's approach to create this template and the fact that all is there and ready to go. 
With Cubase 8 some new cool tricks are possible now and template this big is a must for this kind of soundtracks with a lot of electronics and sound design apart from the usual and unusual orchestral stuff.
I've already told him how inspiring it is to see his process and how kind of him to share it with us. He is a really cool and humble guy!
I can't wait for what comes from this awesome collaboration between Tom and Hans!

@Rtec - can You please elaborate a bit on the aspect of writing music in Quadra? 
I know that You, Junkie, Steve J. and few others are doing this but more than stereo for music is still a big "WHAT?" among many composers, directors and producers (at least in Europe). 
I hope for a change in that matter but people need to understand the benefit first. 
Any particular rules or things to avoid or be aware of while composing/mixing for Quadra?

Thanks in advance!


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## synthetic (Feb 5, 2015)

He has been very responsive to questions on Twitter (as you can see from my question above.) He answered in minutes. 

Inspiring setup. I'm spending the weekend updating and upgrading.


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## José Herring (Feb 5, 2015)

dtonthept @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> Rctec @ Wed Feb 04 said:
> 
> 
> > We are just starting to get really into some serious technology leaps. Mark Wherry and the RCP team are working on something big as far as sheer computing horsepower goes.
> ...



Yes the Zimmer needs to keep up with the Holkenborg if he wants to retain the title of the most cutting edge studio in town. The bar has been raised. This should be fun to watch--the new studios being built in the next few years. :D


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## gsilbers (Feb 5, 2015)

i was under the impression hans has 10.1 strings in 192k. plus a bunch of pro tools systems. junkiexl doesnt seem to have pro tools? it goes straight to cubase, but not sure the routing. stems? either way its wow. 
i guess its always nicer to have less but more powerful equipment.


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## José Herring (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh Junkie got da tools.


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 6, 2015)

And if the music doesn't sound significantly better than someone using 100 tracks it means nothing.


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 6, 2015)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Feb 06 said:


> And if the music doesn't sound significantly better than someone using 100 tracks it means nothing.



No, that's missing the point. Templates are primarily about workflow, not about getting a better sound. It's about accessing that great sound quickly (and even more important, making the composition process itself fast). If Mr XL can get the same sound and composition in half of the time using 10,000 tracks than he can with 100, then who are you or I to argue?


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 6, 2015)

Guy Rowland @ Fri Feb 06 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Feb 06 said:
> 
> 
> > And if the music doesn't sound significantly better than someone using 100 tracks it means nothing.
> ...



I understand that perhaps better than you as I get hired to help people with their workflow. But technology is there to assist us to do better work, not just faster work. It is not an end in itself.

As Duke Ellington said, "It Don't Mean A Thing If It Ain't Got That Swing."


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## dgburns (Feb 6, 2015)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Feb 06 said:


> And if the music doesn't sound significantly better than someone using 100 tracks it means nothing.



while I do admire the dedication,or perhaps the "one-upmanship" involved in creating such a large personal work area,I also wonder about the other side,as in, the increase for error in a lot of places.Just in the daw alone,there is more room for error,usually human error,not to mention more complications increase with pushing tech beyond it's limits.
I rather think that the one strength Cubase has is the ability to focus your tracks by using track presets etc.It is easier to me to create more specific collections for any given purpose,and save as track presets,or even track archives.
that way,you could start with just an empty shell of a template with placeholders for just about everything you'd need,and load those things up in a mouse click.

Speed,efficiency,inspiration and precision are the way forward,not bigger and clumsy.

and for what it's worth,it's easy to make a hundred audio tracks sound like a ball of mush in two seconds flat.no thanks.

think different people.walk your own path.

as a final thought,give me a Hans Zimmer (or enter any admired composer name) with a four track cassette machine any day.It's not the tools,it's the man.it's the brain,the heart and the courage to create that counts,not the canvas.

there,I said my say.


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 6, 2015)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Feb 06 said:


> I understand that perhaps better than you as I get hired to help people with their workflow. But technology is there to assist us to do better work, not just faster work. It is not an end in itself.
> 
> As Duke Ellington said, "It Don't Mean A Thing If It Ain't Got That Swing."



Nonsense - again you're missing the point. If you have two ways of achieving _exactly the same end product_ and one does it at half the time with all other things being equal, that's clearly an advantage. It doesn't have to ALSO sound better to be valid. Getting better sounds or composing better are totally different subjects.

I have zero interest in a 10,000 track template, for me it would be counterproductive. And even thinking about it gives me a headache. But if it works for others, good for them. I'd take Hans with whatever tools he feels most comfortable working with.


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 6, 2015)

If you get a bad sounding result faster all you do is get to bad faster. Admire that if you want, I do not.I am just tired of the view that technology is an end in and of itself because it has led to so much really bad sounding music.

Not at all saying that is true of this guy. I don't know his music.


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 6, 2015)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Feb 06 said:


> If you get a bad sounding result faster all you do is get to bad faster. Admire that if you want, I do not.I am just tired of the view that technology is an end in and of itself because it has led to so much really bad sounding music.
> 
> Not at all saying that is true of this guy. I don't know his music.



Good, glad we've got that cleared up. In the context of discussing Junkie XL's working methods, it sounded more than a little patronising.


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 6, 2015)

Guy Rowland @ Fri Feb 06 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Feb 06 said:
> 
> 
> > If you get a bad sounding result faster all you do is get to bad faster. Admire that if you want, I do not.I am just tired of the view that technology is an end in and of itself because it has led to so much really bad sounding music.
> ...



Certainly not my intention.


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## synthetic (Feb 6, 2015)

So, back on topic. 

I rebuilt my Cubase 8 template completely from scratch last night. I have around 200 MIDI tracks, 40 audio tracks, four instrument tracks, three external effects, groups, etc. Idle CPU is 5% less, maybe a little more. Which, sure, I'll take that. Haven't really stress tested, getting back to work and upgrading tomorrow anyway. 

Good opportunity to think about changes as you go. "Why do I have this? I've never used it." Or "Maybe I should rethink the way I'm naming instrument families and color coding."


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## Jaap (Feb 7, 2015)

My god what a setup....deep deep respect for creating it!

I wonder how I would work with it to be honest. A few years ago my studio was a bit bigger in setup and due to circumstances I had to start from scratch again. Atm I am working with a one pc setup with 16gb of RAM, but to be honest....composing goes much smoother. The limitation is something frustrating (and I hope to expand to some extend soon), but it also creates a certain amount of creativity. I think I would feel lost if I had a 3800 track setup haha. But then again if you build it yourself according to your own needs it might stimulate the workflow and creativity.
I really wonder what I would do myself if I had that kind of resources 

Nonetheless very fascinating and awesome to see!


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## synthetic (Feb 7, 2015)

It's a rig designed to be able to rescore a tentpole movie in 14 days. Not something most of us need to do. 

...but I'll keep buying gear anyway. :D


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## karmadharma (Feb 9, 2015)

givemenoughrope @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> The problem I'm having is seeing everything in the arrange window. I've started to drag the midi tracks I'm actually using into a new folder and then fold and tuck away everything else. Even then, I can have about 40 tracks without scrolling on a 32 inch monitor.



when money is no object why not just get a 4k projector mounted vertically, run windows NOT in HiDPI mode (which would be unusable on a monitor due to things being too small) and project on a 100+" vertical screen? you could orient things so you have, say, the 100" vertical on the left with all the tracks, and two 50" horizontal on its side, top for the movie and bottom for the mixer and/or other things (vi windows etc.).

With a 4k screen in vertical mode run not in HiDPI you'd have more or less the same pixel real estate as 3 1440p monitors one on top of the other which should be quite a bit of tracks.

This said I am also thinking that once the VR tech matures things will get even more flexible, put on the microsoft glasses and every wall/surface in your studio can be a monitor showing different things


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## Greg (Feb 9, 2015)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Feb 06 said:


> And if the music doesn't sound significantly better than someone using 100 tracks it means nothing.



This. Not a big fan of JXL scores lately. He's really talented, they just didn't resonate with me.


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## gsilbers (Feb 9, 2015)

oops.. I posted in a wrong thread....


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## snattack (Feb 9, 2015)

Rctec @ Wed Feb 04 said:


> This is the beginning of a new project Junkie and I are working on. Junkie leading the charge, really challenging some of my paradigms and taking us all to another level. Actually, its incredibly easy to manage and display/hide this amount of tracks in Cubase 8. He's been on Cubase for quite a while now. He'll have the same setup at RCP. We are just starting to get really into some serious technology leaps. Mark Wherry and the RCP team are working on something big as far as sheer computing horsepower goes.



Interesting, I'm finding it a bit hard to be friendly with this part of the workflow in a sequencer (mainly writing for live orchestras). A notated score of course contains less instruments, but it's also a matter of overview to my eyes (which of course is due to a lack of training) that makes it easier.

Are you using folder structures, hiding the whole of them? Using shortcuts for hiding different parts of the track list? On the touch screen? Any info would be usable


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## Rctec (Feb 10, 2015)

I'm going to talk with Junkie after we finish the whole template idea about publishing some of his and my shortcuts. I'm actually displaying far less clutter on the screen these days with really utilizing cubase 8 view options. It's not hard to set up in a way that you never look at more than you have to, but it automatically 'house keeps' everything you need in view...


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 10, 2015)

Rctec @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> I'm going to talk with Junkie after we finish the whole template idea about publishing some of his and my shortcuts. I'm actually displaying far less clutter on the screen these days with really utilizing cubase 8 view options. It's not hard to set up in a way that you never look at more than you have to, but it automatically 'house keeps' everything you need in view...



Oooh, I'd be very interested in that. I use a few basic custom view options and they help, but I don't think I'm using that facility to the maximum potential by a long way. In general I'm finding the overall look in C8's mixer a real step forward - very clean.


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## jonathanwright (Feb 10, 2015)

I'm just getting to grips with that in C8 too.

Even at the very basic level though, simply being able to show only the tracks with data on is incredibly useful.


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## Rv5 (Feb 10, 2015)

Rctec @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> I'm actually displaying far less clutter on the screen these days with really utilizing cubase 8 view options. It's not hard to set up in a way that you never look at more than you have to, but it automatically 'house keeps' everything you need in view...



This one of the things I love about Reaper - it's done this for years! You can show and hide anything you want to in any order and route via a matrix if desired. The theme is yours to play with (if you wish) and the layout of each track fully customisable, will upload a reaper template later this year. Would be great to see what you're doing cubase wise, hope you find the time!


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## synthetic (Feb 10, 2015)

I tried to recreate those custom view options with Lemur. So far I can get 8 of them going. I started a new thread on this: 

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3852072


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 10, 2015)

Guy Rowland @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> Rctec @ Tue Feb 10 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to talk with Junkie after we finish the whole template idea about publishing some of his and my shortcuts. I'm actually displaying far less clutter on the screen these days with really utilizing cubase 8 view options. It's not hard to set up in a way that you never look at more than you have to, but it automatically 'house keeps' everything you need in view...
> ...



So I set up an easy peasy macro that just hides every track that has no data on it. I meant to post it here but I forgot. I worked on some mega huge woosh bang bumper track and of course had the whole template open (1000+ tracks) and all the types of tracks are in their type folders (subs, bass, arps, pads, transitions, guitars, mallets, plinks, donks) but even with the folders closed it is a ton of scrolling and it sucks. you have a million tracks to make things fast but then scrolling through them slows you down...

this macro just takes hides all the unused tracks. need to see them again, unhide. 

ill post it asap. 

I'm very curious to see what the RC crew comes up with too.


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## Øivind (Feb 11, 2015)

I use the artsunmuted template metagrid, awesome stuff. It has many of the Cubase (inkl 8 ) functions already
embedded, and also able to add the macros you create in Cubase. Very nice for those who are not so skilled in 
coding for Lemur, like me ^^

Now i only hope that the Lemur app for Android will be updated to fix the Font scaling displacement issues i am 
having on my Nexus 9, then everything will fall into place.
Edit: just got an e-mail saying that the font issue will be fixed soon in an upcomming patch :D

Seeing the JXL setup really got me inspired :D


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## ChristopherDoucet (Feb 13, 2015)

Sorry, I didn't quote properly. 

If you set up the ability to hide all tracks without data on them, how would that work if you have the little bit of CC data at the beginning of the session? What I'm essentially saying is every single one of my MIDI tracks have data on them at the beginning of the session.


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## RiffWraith (Feb 13, 2015)

givemenoughrope @ Wed Feb 11 said:


> So I set up an easy peasy macro that just hides every track that has no data on it.



Eh, you have a macro that hides unused tracks? In Cubase? This has been a feature request for years, which has not been implemented. And you have figured a way to do this with a macro? :shock: 

Please do share!


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## synthetic (Feb 13, 2015)

RiffWraith @ Fri Feb 13 said:


> Eh, you have a macro that hides unused tracks? In Cubase? This has been a feature request for years, which has not been implemented. And you have figured a way to do this with a macro? :shock:
> 
> Please do share!



Try this: 
http://jefflaity.com/misc_pix/hide-non-data.png

I'd post as an image but the board doesn't allow images of readable size. 

BTW I updated my thread with instructions to have more than 8 visibility presets. Cleaner version here:

http://www.jefflaity.com/using-lemur-to-hideshow-tracks-in-cubase-8/


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## RCsound (Feb 13, 2015)

Project Logical Editor is the swiss knife of Cubase, I use it extensively in my template to hide/unhide, active, arm, by name by xxx ect, you have a lot of examples in the "Project Logical Editor" directory to start programming your own presets.


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 13, 2015)

ha, Jeff. I was just about to post it. 

The only real difference is that I put "Toggle" as Parameter 1 of the Action Target. I set a key command of Control+H (for Houdini). 

If you want to keep some tracks visible that are unused you could just draw an empty section on the track somewhere and it will stay visible with everything else hid. 

This helps my eyes and brain so much. Even more than the huge monitor I just bought. I'm definitely digging into the Project Logical Editor more now...


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## synthetic (Feb 13, 2015)

Toggle is a good idea, thanks.


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## stonzthro (Feb 13, 2015)

My goodness, I really need to look more seriously into Cubase!


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## RiffWraith (Feb 13, 2015)

synthetic @ Sat Feb 14 said:


> Try this:
> http://jefflaity.com/misc_pix/hide-non-data.png





givemenoughrope @ Sat Feb 14 said:


> < pic >



Oh wow, look at this. Never knew this was possible. I wonder if Andrew Keresztes knows about this - he's the one that started the "hide unused tracks" campaign on the Nuendo forum back in the v3 (?) days. 

Well, thanks to both of you. Jeff, I must say I like rope's way better, as it appears his method allows you to toggle this. This may actually force me to start using v7, as you can't do this in v5. :/

Thanks guys - much appreciated! :D


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## mohurwitzmusic (Feb 13, 2015)

You can also use this method to record-enable tracks. I don't believe you can record-enable multiple tracks simultaneously using this method, though. 
MOH


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## tmm (Feb 13, 2015)

Rv5 @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> This one of the things I love about Reaper - it's done this for years! You can show and hide anything you want to in any order and route via a matrix if desired. The theme is yours to play with (if you wish) and the layout of each track fully customisable, will upload a reaper template later this year. Would be great to see what you're doing cubase wise, hope you find the time!



+1 for Reaper. I've had it for years, and many times found myself thinking I needed a "more pro" DAW... But every time realized that there was just too much about Reaper I liked to justify spending money and time in a new DAW.

Re: the JXL template - I appreciate the amount of work and cognitive organization that must have gone into that setup, but it's absolutely the antithesis of my approach to writing. I approach things in a more minimalist way, trying to get to where I want to go in as few steps (few patches / plugins) as possible (without sacrificing tone or inspiration, of course). I have a few patches / instruments that are my go-to's for getting ideas down, and then I just grab what I need for additional / replacement instruments when the time comes. I know the instruments I have, and what I can do with them, so even when I'm playing in a melody with Cinebrass Pro horns or Jubal Flute (some of my favs for writing), in my head I'm hearing how the line will sound when I replace the patch w/ Storm Choir, 3 Adagio patches, Diva or Bazille. It's very unusual when I have more than 20-something tracks (I think my max was 43), and often enough have < 16.


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## jamwerks (Feb 14, 2015)

Another great thing about the Logical Editor is that any magic trick that you creat there, can then get it's own shortcut KS!


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 14, 2015)

A couple of questions on this visibility business.

1. If I want to see only the tracks I'm using, I usually also want to see the associated VI output tracks. Since much of this is VE Pro with 16 output pairs per instance, Cubase can't possibly know what these are, so even if I could associate the right instance returns to a midi track, it would have to show lots of audio returns I don't want to see. 

2. What I'd really like to do is toggle between my used tracks and the specific place where I was - ie with some folders open and some closed, particular automation panes open etc. Again, I can't think of a way to do this - I can preset my general views and choose one, but not the specific set I'd been working with until I switched. As far as I can work out, that's gone forever when I change views.

For those two reasons, I haven't gone beyond basic startup scenarios - just simple collapsing / expanding folders has been simplest and best for me, but very keen to hear of any other ideas I haven't thought of.


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## RiffWraith (Feb 14, 2015)

Eh, guys - rope, Jeff - what version are your screenshots from? I don't see "Hide Track" in my drop-down list. Did you somehow add that manually?


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## Lannister (Feb 15, 2015)

It's for sure there in Version 8


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## JFK (Feb 15, 2015)

rpaillot @ Tue Feb 03 said:


> Ozymandias @ Tue Feb 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting.
> ...



On Cubase 7, 7.5 and 8, this feature doesn't retain it's output selection on project restart. Also documented by others on the forums. 

Have you managed to make this work?


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 15, 2015)

Riff, I'm on 7.5. 

Guy, 

1. I agree...and honestly I haven't gotten this far. it makes sense to hide, say, the 97 of the 100 midi tracks that are assigned to a VE Pro instance but i too need to see the output...just so I can follow the signal flow. If you put some dummy automation on the VI output tracks will they stay visible? Like a quick volume jump and back before bar 0 or something. I'll try this soon. 

2. I'm not totally following but there must be the option to hide certain tracks depending on how they are named, right? of course, that is a workflow/labeling compromise if so. Not really sure...maybe give me an example. 

I do know now that I'm using this hide/unhide there are dozens of empty folders clogging up too much of the screen...so i'm going to rethink the folders/nested folders setup a bit. i think...just less folders. 

And Andrew K/Audiobro is the one who actually got me to see the light on one midi channel per articulation (the was before vst expression maps)...so I hope he knows about this option if he needs it. I think there are advantages to having both one art per channel and all in one. Depends if you are sketching or fine-tuning in my experience.


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 15, 2015)

question for rctec or anyone...

re: what junkie said about building the template from scratch in C8. Is this really worth it? Are you really carrying bugs over from a previous version (I don't know enough about these things to know if that is a legit concern or not). 
For me, the only major things that have sped up Cubase/VE Pro are SSDs (obviously) and reducing the amount of VE Pro instances to one per machine (different workflow but way faster). If rebuilding the template only helps a tiny amount then I'm not sure I'm up for it honestly...


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## synthetic (Feb 15, 2015)

Rebuilding my 200-300 track template increased VST performance by about 5%. Took a few hours but worth it.


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## Rob Elliott (Feb 17, 2015)

Does anyone know if Nuendo 6 has this logical editor function (hide unused tracks)? If not I am sure it will be in N7. It's not in N5.


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 17, 2015)

givemenoughrope @ Sun Feb 15 said:


> . I'm not totally following but there must be the option to hide certain tracks depending on how they are named, right? of course, that is a workflow/labeling compromise if so. Not really sure...maybe give me an example.



Maybe I explained myself badly. When I'm working on a cue, say I have a dozen tracks in use. I may open up controller lanes on 5 of them, cc1 on all and some cc2 on a couple. I've also changed the width on a couple too. Now, if then press a shortcut to get me to just show those tracks, I think all those specific automation lanes and widths that I've changed will vanish. And then when I want to zip back to show all tracks again to add another track, again it won't look how it did - it will go back to a default state (however I originally set it up, not specific to that cue).


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## synthetic (Feb 19, 2015)

givemenoughrope @ Sun Feb 15 said:


> 2. I'm not totally following but there must be the option to hide certain tracks depending on how they are named, right? of course, that is a workflow/labeling compromise if so. Not really sure...maybe give me an example.



You can do it that way, but an easier way is to organize tracks into folders then show/hide the folders. Divide them into instrument families or whatever makes sense.


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## marclawsonmusic (Mar 4, 2015)

Evidently, he has decided to put together some tutorial videos on his setup. Unbelievable. This guy is a saint.

https://twitter.com/Junkie_XL/status/573267516568387584


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## ryanstrong (Mar 4, 2015)

marclawsonmusic @ Wed Mar 04 said:


> Evidently, he has decided to put together some tutorial videos on his setup. Unbelievable. This guy is a saint.
> 
> https://twitter.com/Junkie_XL/status/573267516568387584



Nice! Thanks for the update.


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## Jetzer (Mar 5, 2015)

Seems he had no patience to wait for a nice carpet to arrive before setting up his rig 

But very nice to do tutorials of his work-flow.


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## Lannister (Mar 13, 2015)

Video interview with him here at his home studio,

http://collider.com/junkie-xl-mad-max-fury-road-batman-v-superman-interview/

where in the beginning he talks a bit about his setup, and then how he got into making soundtracks and what he's up to now.


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## proxima (Mar 13, 2015)

Lannister @ Fri Mar 13 said:


> Video interview with him here at his home studio,
> 
> http://collider.com/junkie-xl-mad-max-fury-road-batman-v-superman-interview/
> 
> where in the beginning he talks a bit about his setup, and then how he got into making soundtracks and what he's up to now.


Nice interview, but some of the question setups were annoying (why bring up Alexandre Desplat?


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## Jonas.Ingebretsen (Mar 19, 2015)

Rctec @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> I'm going to talk with Junkie after we finish the whole template idea about publishing some of his and my shortcuts. I'm actually displaying far less clutter on the screen these days with really utilizing cubase 8 view options. It's not hard to set up in a way that you never look at more than you have to, but it automatically 'house keeps' everything you need in view...




What's this new function people keep mentioning? :idea: I'm at 600+ Instruments and It's getting messy over here with Cubase 7.5


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## 24dBFS (Mar 24, 2015)

Jonas, 

I'm not exactly sure which function do you mean but:

1). disabling/enabling instrument tracks is a huge step forward in building huge templates and freeing up RAM

2). Visibility Agents - allows you to hide/show certain tracks (sorted by name, kind, color etc..) also great for big templates if you do not have 12 monitors 

Cheers!


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## ChristopherDoucet (May 11, 2015)

Does anyone happen to have heard any update on the release of the video tutorials MR. XL said he would be doing ? I know he couldn't be busier...(Which is AWESOME) 
I'm just curious if anyone knows anything new.


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## stonzthro (May 11, 2015)

Was wondering the same thing - I'd like to look further into his approach.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 11, 2015)

Well he posted pictures of filming many weeks ago and I believe he mentioned that they were being done by Steinberg (I could be wrong) so I think its out of his hands. I'm also anxiously waiting!


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## Brobdingnagian (May 12, 2015)

Loving the touch screen with Lemur/OSC/SAM or whichever on it. There are some affordable options now from Dell and Acer.

Has anyone tried one of these with a Logic/Mac Trashcan setup? Would it work - reliably?

-B


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## givemenoughrope (Apr 29, 2016)

Jaap said:


> 3800 track setup



Is it 3,800 tracks or 3,800 stereo returns from VE Pro into Cubase? (Looking at another video where he claims the latter.) I'm about to go for broke with what I need/get away with. I'm pretty sure my router is Gigabit and all Cat6 cables. I guess we'll see...although at most I may need 2% of that number.


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## dgburns (Apr 29, 2016)

givemenoughrope said:


> Is it 3,800 tracks or 3,800 stereo returns from VE Pro into Cubase? (Looking at another video where he claims the latter.) I'm about to go for broke with what I need/get away with. I'm pretty sure my router is Gigabit and all Cat6 cables. I guess we'll see...although at most I may need 2% of that number.



3800 tracks,well his name IS Junkie after all (hugs and kisses Tom,just teasing)


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## rpaillot (Apr 29, 2016)

givemenoughrope said:


> Is it 3,800 tracks or 3,800 stereo returns from VE Pro into Cubase? (Looking at another video where he claims the latter.) I'm about to go for broke with what I need/get away with. I'm pretty sure my router is Gigabit and all Cat6 cables. I guess we'll see...although at most I may need 2% of that number.



Hmm, it is certainly not 3800 stereo returns . Cubase already gets pretty slow when you approach the 80 stereo returns so imagine with 3800


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## givemenoughrope (Apr 29, 2016)

OK...I thought that sounded...ugh, insane...
Thought I heard it here though:


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## ChristopherDoucet (May 1, 2016)

rpaillot said:


> Hmm, it is certainly not 3800 stereo returns . Cubase already gets pretty slow when you approach the 80 stereo returns so imagine with 3800



Do you find that is the case regardless of the power of the computer?


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## dgburns (May 1, 2016)

A thought experiment-

Does one need a 4000 plus template in order to score a studio film?

Does one need a large template as a symbol of musical adepteness and maintain some advantage?

Let's think about where this is going,not where we are now.It wouldn't be difficult to imagine a future where capacity would allow us to overwhelm with to many choices.

While I understand the growing trend to more bespoke environments adapted for a specific film--where does this trend lead to?Seems to me we can justify a complete studio overhaul for a film if we are getting the resources that allow for it,as well as the timeline.There was a time where creating bespoke kontakt libs just for one film (or franchise) was all de rigeur.Now it seems that's not enough,we must create a complete holistic view of what the music is based on-a complete overhaul of the philosophy used to compose said music.I suppose a million plus budget justifies this.

Yet I find myself taking pause again.Imagine a time where capacity allows for vastly increased options with ever more complex controls over the sound/instruments?What is the end game?
For me,it's about making a living still,for a little while longer perhaps.I know there is one rung just above that,where one's survival is financially assured,and priorities naturally get focused elsewhere.
I've paused buying new sounds for a while now.Partly because I don't like the way it makes me think.It naturally frames my thinking towards mastering someone else's way of doing things.That's exactly the opposite of why I got into wanting to write music.Endless hours at a piano as a kid,wandering around playing things off the top of my head,not trying to play chopin(not that there is anything wrong with that for someone else).

In the not too distant future,I think the ones with the tendancy to think for themselves will naturally do better then the ones who feel the need to buy the latest and greatest offering in some bid to advance their career.I'm not suggesting there won't be must have breakthrough advances,but recently around here,I've seen nothing but a relentless parade of bewildering sample offerings.Ever heard of the "long tail" ? if not google it.It's happening here.

Think about what you really need to make music,really original creative,no one else is "really doing it like that" music.I think we had it right back before this sample craze.We needed instruments and a way to record them.I realize this might run counter to this forum,and all the wonderfull people creating vast libs,but I'd rather speak my mind and stand out than just go along with it all.


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## JohnG (May 1, 2016)

@dgburns

I don't know if you need 4,000 sounds or fewer, but I do think Tom's music (JXL's) is fun and sounds cool and he seems to be totally into it / committed to what he's doing. So if that's the way he does it -- mixes it, programs it -- all himself, I don't see how having an abundance of sounds makes him more like anyone else. The opposite, I'd say.

My template has a lot of sounds in it and I often supplement with more (sometimes a lot more) for a particular cue. Part of our job these days is to retain in our inner ears the different sounds available, loaded or on a drive somewhere. It's the same to me as remembering all the amazing things a French Horn or cello player can do. Harsh, beautiful, weird, fast, slow -- all the bowings alone, plus effects -- there are just so many sounds available. 

Orchestra, guitar, synths, the world of percussion beyond traditional kit or orchestral instruments -- we can all have it at a relatively trivial cost. It's a miracle, looked at one way. That's why we all talk about samples being "inspiring" or "playable." The best ones, like some of the specialist Spitfire libraries (their Ricotti glockenspiel that was discussed on another thread, for example) does require that you remember a lot, since so much is available in it, but the variety of sound is amazing.

I find having a substantial template frees me, rather than restricting what I can write. Besides, these days, for most composers working for a living in media, a near-perfect-sounding demo seems like a requirement.


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## dgburns (May 1, 2016)

JohnG said:


> @dgburns
> 
> I don't know if you need 4,000 sounds or fewer, but I do think Tom's music (JXL's) is fun and sounds cool and he seems to be totally into it / committed to what he's doing. So if that's the way he does it -- mixes it, programs it -- all himself, I don't see how having an abundance of sounds makes him more like anyone else. The opposite, I'd say.
> 
> ...



John,as usual you are thoughtful and eloquent.As a pro,you are concerned with the pragmatic here and now.I was just wanting to lift my head above the horizon and maybe take a peek at a bit beyond it.


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## JohnG (May 1, 2016)

I agree with and applaud your thought about trying to be an individual out there. 

I'm re-posting an old post from a member here called "poseur" about the process, and striving.

These are his words:

_reading, writing and their ability to speed
attendant analysis skills are important,
are certainly key & helpful.....
..... but, i think that developing one's ears
via focused listening, playing & occasionally brutal
self-criticism remains important, too.

maybe we can gain much by remembering this:
maybe it can bring us closer to stronger internalisations
of core musical concepts:
harmony, melody, rhythm, arr & orch:
over and above intellectualised analyses,
which certainly can lead to the lionisation of the
analytical approaches at the cost of something dear
to the root-impulse to create works of un-prefabricated
feeling.

that said,
i read & write, & still have some cause to sight-read..... under pressure, with the red-light on._

_it might be seen as important that our paths 
are founded on the bases of the creation of original works,
sincere works that offer
our own personal viewpoints and perspectives;
i think it can be dangerous to suggest that
good composition absolutely requires reading & writing,
first & foremost:
i don't believe that the basic, childlike impulse to compose should be overlooked as an absolutely primary factor
worthy of work & development._

_i also think that any instrument that one plays well 
--- the more, the merrier ---
can, indeed, be folded into the approach through
which we compose,
and can thereby enrich both our understanding
of our own writing, as well as its reach & potential: 
i suggest continuing to use those instruments in one's compositional flow, and pursuing them.

unlike many,
i don't believe there's a fundamental problem
with composing-by-ear.....
if,

a) you're increasing the capacity of your ear, and 
b) you simultaneously develop various methods of
intra-musical communication.....

..... including (but, not limited-to) reading & writing. _

_..... seems like what's primary to music of value is that 
1) we actually have something to say, and
3) we can say it.

so, yeah:
do learn to read & write, so that you can study & analyse scores, & cmprehend harmony & rhythm.....
but, listen more & with greater concentration,
sing more melodies (alone, without any instrument to hand), and continue to play all your instruments
with musical vigor:
internalise the feelings of
isolated pieces of music.
everything you learn

--- no matter how, or in what chronological order --- 

it's all important. 
sorry for the potentially useless babble;
i'm tired.....

from "Poseur"_


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## dgburns (May 1, 2016)

JohnG said:


> I agree with and applaud your thought about trying to be an individual out there.
> 
> I'm re-posting an old post from a member here called "poseur" about the process, and striving.
> 
> ...



Some deep thought in there.I read it five times before attempting some response.First off,so refreshing to read.Second,this can only be understood by one who's walked a mile in those shoes.I'm struck by the fact that many have come before and wrestled with the same concepts we face today,plus ca change,I guess.
Ok,maybe a bit long on the verbiage here and there,but obviously written by someone striving to make sense of our collective path.Someone intensely interested in communication through his/her craft.I'm also struck by the fact that the world would do just fine whether I lived and wrote music,or not.Makes one feel a bit insignificant.I continue to find solace/value in the fact the "i wrote music that plays over the world daily,therfore I exist" as some small consolation to the inevitable anonimity I seem to feel daily otherwise.yes it's PRO residual distribution time again.

-edit-
Poseur's post should be made a sticky somewhere here on the forum.Part of the Eula,ha ha.

One final thought,I find it intriguing about the self deprecating last line "sorry for the potential useless babble"-sounds like that summs up all the music I've written over my career so far

thanks for the pointer to this.Sounds like someone I could sit and have a few beers with.It's strange to find re-enforcement in listening to the artistic struggles so well expressed.

thanks John,
fight the good fight


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## JohnG (May 1, 2016)

I agree, dg. Poseur has given everything he has to music and I think it is reflected in his post.

Maybe one or two people have really gotten "all the way there" in the history of music; maybe just Beethoven? But I agree it's good to keep trying even if we don't attain that level or anything close to it.

In his way, I get the feeling that Tom H (Junkie XL), Hendrix, and plenty of others have also done the best they could and honoured their inner compass to go where it led them. Listening to some of the details Tom has gotten into is humbling -- a different kind of humbling from listening to Arvo Part or Bartok, but humbling nevertheless.

Tom seems to me to be following a really interesting vein in music, influenced by everything from classical and baroque to club music and all the other acronym stuff, plus metal and -- really it's everything except maybe religious music. And I'm not so sure he's not interested in that too.

Whatever you call it, I like it and find it fun and intriguing.


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## cc64 (May 1, 2016)

Hey John it's great that you quote Poseur! Just last week i was thinking how much i miss him on this forum. He hasn't posted in a very long time it seems. Hope he is well.

Certainly for me, one of the most influential members that has contributed to this forum. Hope he stops by again...

Claude


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## JohnG (May 1, 2016)

He's doing well but seems to have moved on as far as forum posts. Miss him here too -- a very thoughtful guy.


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## dcoscina (May 1, 2016)

I recently saw dead pool and enjoyed the score, especially the inclusion of 80s synths. There was a good many moments that he score stood out


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## givemenoughrope (Jul 11, 2016)

givemenoughrope said:


> ha, Jeff. I was just about to post it.
> 
> The only real difference is that I put "Toggle" as Parameter 1 of the Action Target. I set a key command of Control+H (for Houdini).
> 
> ...




Arg!!! So the "toggling" is now crashing Cubase. Enable or Disable is fine though so I had to change around some key commands.


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