# Blade Runner 2049



## synthpunk

OST to be released on Epic
http://filmmusicreporter.com/2017/09/27/epic-records-to-release-blade-runner-2049-soundtrack/


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## jtnyc

That is so disappointing. Besides being so overly compressed, congested, distorted, and generally cold sounding, the music itself it's just uninspiring. I feel like I'm listening to a VI demo, not a soundtrack. This music has no voice.

And then there's Vangelis. It's too bad he didn't score it. But then again, who knows if the movie itself will even be any good. It might turn out as formulaic and average as the music in that clip...


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## synthpunk

Anybody know about the shorts, and prequel anime that is currently out ? Confused.


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## Greg

That is definitely not the legit OST. Also who the fuck wants a CD? Release it on Vinyl...


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## rottoy

I'm carefully optimistic that it will work in the film itself. 
But listening to this on it's own, it doesn't really inspire me.


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## Mundano

no no nooo... what did they do? at first I wanted Vangelis to do the soundtrack again, I don't know why it didn't happen.. then Johannson was a good choice, and again something behind the curtains happened.. and the choice of HZ, I love HZ, but not for Blade Runner...


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## Greg

"Official" this one is just a rip of the trailer audio including sfx..


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## Mundano

Greg said:


> "Official" this one is just a rip of the trailer audio including sfx..




sorry, this "epicness" has nothing to do with the aesthetic of the first film... but this is their business...


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## Mundano

the Maestro with his own hands, delivering in his last production:


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## Greg

Mundano said:


> sorry, this "epicness" has nothing to do with the aesthetic of the first film... but this is their business...



Its not the real soundtrack......


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## Mundano

Greg said:


> Its not the real soundtrack......



...oh!  sorry..


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## Ollie

Greg said:


> "Official" this one is just a rip of the trailer audio including sfx..





Yeh the first 1:50ish is a youtube rip of the track my brother and I did for trailer 2. Not sure where the rest came from.


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## muziksculp

Here is the full Soundtrack of Blade Runner 2049. (Official Release is Oct. 6th).


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## Mundano

muziksculp said:


> Here is the full Soundtrack of Blade Runner 2049. (Official Release is Oct. 6th).




.... is this really his OST? this sounds like a mix of Two Steps From Hell + Zimmer's Dark Knights/Inception in some [edit: most] tracks...  intensive bombastic percussions and strings section. And if this is really his OST, from style I miss a step forward...

WHERE IS VANGELIS !?? or at least Johannson....


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## erica-grace

muziksculp said:


> Here is the full Soundtrack of Blade Runner 2049. (Official Release is Oct. 6th).



That is *NOT* the Blade Runner 2049 OST


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## Mundano

erica-grace said:


> That is *NOT* the Blade Runner 2049 OST


i am so naive...


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## Grizzlymv

I don't know if this is the real deal or not... but I like what I hear there. Anyway, will save my comments from within the movie context.


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## gsilbers

synthpunk said:


> Anybody know about the shorts, and prequel anime that is currently out ? Confused.



yes. there are 3 prequels the director told other filmakers to do. one is anime showing the history of the blackout which seems to be important to the movie plot. and then two live action shorts.


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## Ollie

Grizzlymv said:


> I don't know if this is the real deal or not... but I like what I hear there. Anyway, will save my comments from within the movie context.




I think this one might be legit. I remember hearing the track a while back here: http://roadto2049.bladerunnermovie.com/

Though I think that was before the Hans Zimmer transition was announced. So maybe this is one of Jóhann Jóhannsson's?


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## Replicant

synthpunk said:


> Anybody know about the shorts, and prequel anime that is currently out ? Confused.



2048 introduces the character "Sapper", arguably the best Dave Bautista has ever been.

2036 introduces Wallace, the villian (or so it seems) of the new movie and how his new replicants obey without question.

Blackout 2022 is by far the coolest, and is an anime prequel that basically explains exactly how and why the world went to shit before 2049.


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## givemenoughrope

This is probably the ONLY film i can think of that I'm going to see on the basis of the soundtrack and I don't think I want to spoil it. I'll be doing that enough by actually watching the film. (How DV and Jared Leto are part of an American noir is just beyond me.)


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## jtnyc

Ollie said:


> I think this one might be legit. I remember hearing the track a while back here: http://roadto2049.bladerunnermovie.com/
> 
> Though I think that was before the Hans Zimmer transition was announced. So maybe this is one of Jóhann Jóhannsson's?


It's kind of funny that that music is so average and non discript yet it could be Zimmer, maybe it's Johann, or maybe it's just a hobbiest on YouTube? I would hope it's not either of the first two. If Vangelis scored it tho, there would be no such confusion or discussion. You would hear it and know who scored it.


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## givemenoughrope

None of what I'm hearing above sounds like they could even be demos for the thrown out score or otherwise.


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## AdamKmusic

Hans and Ben currently live on FB talking about the score -


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## Replicant

God _damn_, Lauren Daigle is all kinds of fine.

Nice voice, too


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## Jetzer

Excited for this movie. First reviews are really positive.

Btw, Benjamin Wallfisch is on fire lately. A Cure for Wellness is really great. Haven't seen IT yet, but heard it is good. 

I really like this theme:


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## J-M

marksumm said:


> Just watched the film. I was so looking forward to JJ's score but I have to say, I couldn't fault a single second. If the cinematography wasn't as equally compelling, I'd happily watch the film with my eyes shut.



The movie isn't total crap? I was preparing for the worst, maybe I'll go and see it. :D


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## ghobii

I saw it last night. I really enjoyed everything about it. The soundtrack is what, I think, fans will expect. A modernized take on the original, turned up to eleven. It really worked well, and that first big synth swell in the beginning, the way it just washes over you - so gorgeous.


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## rottoy

ghobii said:


> I saw it last night. I really enjoyed everything about it. The soundtrack is what, I think, fans will expect. A modernized take on the original, turned up to eleven. It really worked well, and that first big synth swell in the beginning, the way it just washes over you - so gorgeous.


Overall, Zimmer and Wallfisch did a nice job with really imposing soundscapes to match the astounding visuals. There were some moments where I thought the choice of synthesizers veered into obnoxious.
But it's telling when they do a Vangelis quote near the end and it makes all of the other music pale in comparison.


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## muziksculp

Listening to the Blade Runner 2049 soundtrack, I started getting bored pretty fast.

Not what I was expecting. I really, really wish Vangelis scored it.

Mostly big paddy chordal washes with the CS-80, I really don't get it. Most likely it works in the movie's context, but I still wish it had more character, more interesting rhythmic ideas, and a strong melodic theme, that would have generated a new nostalgic soundtrack for such a classic movie sequel.


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## David Donaldson

I've never had much interest in Hans Zimmer, mostly because he tends to score movies I'm not interested in but I did want to see Blade Runner 2049. I would have been more keen to see the film if it had had Johanns Johannsson's score but went despite hearing that it was "too long"(it wasn't) and now had a Hans Zimmer and Benjamin Wallfisch score.

I loved it. Amazing visuals, great sound ( I saw it at the only Dolby Atmos theatre here in New Zealand) good story and perfect score for the film, I thought anyway.
I would never bother listening to the music outside the film but that's fine with me. It's serving the film and just one element that makes, hopefully a greater whole.
Within the context of the film the score worked great for me.


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## muziksculp

David Donaldson said:


> I've never had much interest in Hans Zimmer, mostly because he tends to score movies I'm not interested in but I did want to see Blade Runner 2049. I would have been more keen to see the film if it had had Johanns Johannsson's score but went despite hearing that it was "too long"(it wasn't) and now had a Hans Zimmer and Benjamin Wallfisch score.
> 
> I loved it. Amazing visuals, great sound ( I saw it at the only Dolby Atmos theatre here in New Zealand) good story and perfect score for the film, I thought anyway.
> I would never bother listening to the music outside the film but that's fine with me. It's serving the film and just one element that makes, hopefully a greater whole.
> Within the context of the film the score worked great for me.



Hi David Donaldson,

Glad you enjoyed the movie, and the score (in context of the film), well.. at least the music worked in context of the film, but, imho. the score is not even close to the Vangelis Score for the original Blade Runner in terms of nostalgia, and memorability.

I will most likely go see the movie soon, and Thanks for your feedback, and thoughts about the movie, and soundtrack.

Oh.. and I would love to hear Johann Johannsson's score for the movie, but I'm guessing that will never happen.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## babylonwaves

just watch it if you lighthearted


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## Voider

The soundtrack was one of my bigger parts in the review I wrote on a german filmsite yesterday.
It has some good and some negative sides.

It indeed is very powerful and really adds on the feeling of the imposing buildings and landscapes. I called it "cinematic suspense", because it felt like suspense, but really hits the big wide cinematic screen in a different huge dimension, soundwise. Blade Runner 2049 was even darker than the original, sometimes almost horrifying regarding the atmosphere.

But then besides that there is no "sound signature" that will make this soundtrack something remarkable for the upcoming 10 years, or something that makes people going back to the soundtrack on youtube and listening to it over and over again. It missed the chance to become iconic. On the one hand I'd say that's okay because the way Blade Runner 2049 looks and feels like, it fits. I'd even go so far and say that the Blade Runner 2049 soundtrack works better the way it is, than trying to be iconic from the start to the end, because it hits the atmosphere and emotions just on the right spot.

On the other hand I feel like it just needed two or three remarkable soundtrack parts placed well, which would create a very immense contrast to the dark epic side of the whole movie, because they would be the exceptions that proves the rules. Lights in the dark. A Blade Runner 2049 just can't have beat-heavy rhythmic synthesizer soundtracks because those are more aimed on visually stylish (in terms of bright colors and action) movies.

But something in between would've fit perfectly if used carefully.

I was waiting the whole film for such a scene. It finally came up in the last quarter of the film - the first and last scene that really featured a synthesizer soundtrack with a classical bassline and sfx. But I felt disappointed by it, the sounddesign on this seemed to be the only loveless part in the whole soundtrack, it felt like quickly done, very basic. It didn't match the screen, the screen was made for a sounddesign masterpiece at this moment, it was the prelude to the final, but the track couldn't keep up.

By the way, does anyone know more about the story behind Jóhann Jóhannsson leaving the project?
I wonder how his soundtrack for the film would've sounded like. Really.

PS: The movie was absolutely beautiful. I'd have just wished a few more scenes were shot in the great cyberpunk city they had build.


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## Ultra

saw it. the movie doesn't have a score and/or soundtrack in the common sense.

it has synth sound design elements. the mix was way too loud, it got annoying very, very fast. repetitive, boring, empty sound design bits and pieces. about 50% of the time it does not add to the pics at all - and the other 50% it was still way too loud. Worst mix ever.

often, it would have been better to have no "music" (for the lack of a better word what was done here) at all, and just let room or environment tone run. u know, Blade Runner used to have these scenes filled with people and lots of black market action...

there is one scene where the sound design blasts at full force while Gosling has a line... inaudible, of course.

pretty much the worst "score" I heard in a long time. once in a nexus moon a fragment of the original Vangelis score sneaks in, other than that there is not a single recognizable melody or theme here... this must have been put together in half a day and/or I have zero idea what the director's intent here was.

considering that the movie itself is not bad (I had strong concerns), this is rather ironic. on a 185 mill budget, this is strange.

ZERO original Blade Runner feeling, which was oozing atmosphere also greatly because of the score, but a different spin in the same universe. Wish they'd gotten Vangelis and or taken much more care of the score.

There are quite a few scenes in the movie which would have benefited from a strong, deep score.


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## muziksculp

Ultra said:


> saw it. the movie doesn't have a score and/or soundtrack in the common sense.
> 
> it has synth sound design elements. the mix was way too loud, it got annoying very, very fast. repetitive, boring, empty sound design bits and pieces. about 50% of the time it does not add to the pics at all - and the other 50% it was still way too loud. Worst mix ever.
> 
> often, it would have been better to have no "music" (for the lack of a better word what was done here) at all, and just let room or environment tone run. u know, Blade Runner used to have these scenes filled with people and lots of black market action...
> 
> there is one scene where the sound design blasts at full force while Gosling has a line... inaudible, of course.
> 
> pretty much the worst "score" I heard in a long time. once in a nexus moon a fragment of the original Vangelis score sneaks in, other than that there is not a single recognizable melody or theme here... this must have been put together in half a day and/or I have zero idea what the director's intent here was.
> 
> considering that the movie itself is not bad (I had strong concerns), this is rather ironic. on a 185 mill budget, this is strange.
> 
> ZERO original Blade Runner feeling, which was oozing atmosphere also greatly because of the score, but a different spin in the same universe. Wish they'd gotten Vangelis and or taken much more care of the score.
> 
> There are quite a few scenes in the movie which would have benefited from a strong, deep score.



Hi Ultra,

Thanks for your feedback regarding the movie and soundtrack.

I didn't see the movie (yet), but I listened to the entire soundtrack, and had the same reaction to it , you can read my thoughts about it posted a few posts before yours, Oh boy, what a wasted opportunity for a much more nostalgic, sophisticated, animated, memorable, and super futuristic soundtrack, I would have even liked it if it was a Hybrid score, Orchestra + Synthetic.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Ultra

muziksculp said:


> Hi Ultra,
> 
> Thanks for your feedback regarding the movie and soundtrack.
> 
> I didn't see the movie (yet), but I listened to the entire soundtrack, and had the same reaction to it , you can read my few words about it posted a few posts before yours, Oh boy, what a wasted opportunity for a much more nostalgic, sophisticated, animated, memorable, and super futuristic soundtrack, I would have even liked it if it was a Hybrid score, Orchestra + Synthetic.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



yeah, hard to tell what happened here. movie changed people in key positions a few times, but the "music" can only be described as a "missed opportunity" - that is as nice as can put it.

the movie has a few other things, but not gonna go into that since many have not yet seen it. but at least IMO, the good news is that the movie is not bad. I believe many were concerned about a full on disaster


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## heisenberg

AdamKmusic said:


> Hans and Ben currently live on FB talking about the score -




I gathered after watching this video yesterday that they were seriously pressed for time (more so than usual) for coming up with the score. Figure they had to dig into the bag of tricks more than normal as well to meet deadline.


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## heisenberg

There was a Google Talk with the Director which sheds some light on his approach to the sound. He addresses the shifting of the "approach" to scoring the film. You can read between the lines as to what happened.

I won't publicly speculate on it as feeding into the rumour mill will have a good chance of marring the reputations of all three composers who were involved.


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## jtnyc

Ultra said:


> saw it. the movie doesn't have a score and/or soundtrack in the common sense.
> 
> it has synth sound design elements. the mix was way too loud, it got annoying very, very fast. repetitive, boring, empty sound design bits and pieces. about 50% of the time it does not add to the pics at all - and the other 50% it was still way too loud. Worst mix ever.
> 
> often, it would have been better to have no "music" (for the lack of a better word what was done here) at all, and just let room or environment tone run. u know, Blade Runner used to have these scenes filled with people and lots of black market action...
> 
> there is one scene where the sound design blasts at full force while Gosling has a line... inaudible, of course.
> 
> pretty much the worst "score" I heard in a long time. once in a nexus moon a fragment of the original Vangelis score sneaks in, other than that there is not a single recognizable melody or theme here... this must have been put together in half a day and/or I have zero idea what the director's intent here was.
> 
> considering that the movie itself is not bad (I had strong concerns), this is rather ironic. on a 185 mill budget, this is strange.
> 
> ZERO original Blade Runner feeling, which was oozing atmosphere also greatly because of the score, but a different spin in the same universe. Wish they'd gotten Vangelis and or taken much more care of the score.
> 
> There are quite a few scenes in the movie which would have benefited from a strong, deep score.



I'm not surprised at all. I can't tolerate the sheer volume of many movies these days, even worse when mumbling dialogue disappears under the sound design/score. Add to that the ridiculous overuse of booms, bangs, and slams, and it just becomes silly. When is that going to go out of style? I don't know if BR is totally like that as I haven't seen it, but the trailers I've seen sound unoriginal and formulaic. I think many of us have a very high standard regarding this sequel, and I think that just sets us up for disappointment. The original soundtrack is legend. It has so much personality and oozes with atmosphere (well stated). On top of that it has very strong melodic themes, played with so much emotion. There's not many people that can get that much emotion out of a synth. There's only one Vangelis...

How is the story, actors, dialogue? Is it in the same league as the original, or is it just another non stop, bang you over the head, fast edit, loud sound design circus?


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## Replicant

Ultra said:


> saw it. the movie doesn't have a score and/or soundtrack in the common sense.
> 
> it has synth sound design elements



Given that this is essentially the standard for modern blockbusters, I have to wonder why you expected _anything but_


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## Ultra

Replicant said:


> Given that this is essentially the standard for modern blockbusters, I have to wonder why you expected _anything but_



well, as u know... hope dies last... 

Blade Runner is very dear to many of us, and besides being very concerned that this is a complete disaster (which it is not, IMO), Warner knew that every single element of this sequel was gonna be an insanely touchy subject for the fans...

considering they dodged the bullet on many other elements - or avoided complete disaster - by putting in a lot of work and love into VFX, matte paintings, set extensions etc, it is very strange to say the least to slap this "music" on top... I don't even have a proper term for it, as it does not qualify as a score... sound design fragments... and very, very generic..

man, but the mix was the worst I've ever heard... the "music" is so generic predictable that you would rather fade out as soon as u can, but they put the fader up 10+ dB...

it sounds like a kid had half a day to play with a HZ VI sound kit...

no idea what the director thought, or maybe Villeneuve did not have enough say in it...


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## Ultra

jtnyc said:


> I'm not surprised at all. I can't tolerate the sheer volume of many movies these days, even worse when mumbling dialogue disappears under the sound design/score. Add to that the ridiculous overuse of booms, bangs, and slams, and it just becomes silly. When is that going to go out of style? I don't know if BR is totally like that as I haven't seen it, but the trailers I've seen sound unoriginal and formulaic. I think many of us have a very high standard regarding this sequel, and I think that just sets us up for disappointment. The original soundtrack is legend. It has so much personality and oozes with atmosphere (well stated). On top of that it has very strong melodic themes, played with so much emotion. There's not many people that can get that much emotion out of a synth. There's only one Vangelis...
> 
> How is the story, actors, dialogue? Is it in the same league as the original, or is it just another non stop, bang you over the head, fast edit, loud sound design circus?



don't wanna spoil too much as many have not yet seen it... the "music" is the least good about the movie, IMO... other things received a lot of care...

but u know, there's many reasons why the original (which has many problems, hence the 50 different versions of it) is what it is... it's hard to capture that essence, unless u get an absolute super fan specialist director... and then the right production team to go along with it

Villeneuve is okay, but for example when they got PJ for LOTR u knew chances were very high it was gonna be something special... ARRIVAL for me was a complete smoke and mirror show, with ultimately very little in it... SICARIO exact same thing (although I like Sicario better than Arrival), ultimately very little but very nice use of the score which creates a lot of tension in scenes where there is ultimately NOTHING happening...

but this here is def better than what Ridley would have done with it, I am very certain of that...


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## Simon Ravn

Not really a surprise, if the score is just average "run of the mill" thing, considering the time constraints. It would have taken longer time to develop more of an original concept, like Zimmer has done before on Inception, Dark Knight etc. This way it must have been probably some of the easiest/less time consuming money Zimmer has made in a long time, so at least that is something. Not that i presume he needs the dough...

Looking forward to seeing the movie nevertheless. I actually just watched the original 2 days ago in the new 4K HDR release. The score is obviously a classic but also borderline corny in some places (the saxophone parts mainly). But that's part of how movies were scored in that period.


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## givemenoughrope

That was Blade Runner...? Huh...


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## Ultra

IMO, the original score adds greatly to the atmosphere but as a standalone score to listen to, only the "End Credits" track cuts it...


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## Lassi Tani

Saw the movie, I couldn't connect emotionally to the scenes, the actors, which felt empty, or the soundtrack, which was very loud indeed and unfortunately nothing memorable. I guess my expectations were too high. Some scenes, which didn't need music, were filled with synths and sound design elements. The movie was quite slow paced, and it wouldn't be a problem, if I could connect to the scenes emotionally. I was almost ready to leave the movie.


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## reddognoyz

I really liked BR 2049. Not a perfect movie, but very beautiful and atmospheric and thought provoking. After watching the trailers leading up to the film, which were essentially one long montage of gigantic CGI monsters, robots and explosions, against the back drop of the same trailer soundtrack audio devices, it was a breath of fresh air to see some pacing in a film. Not there was any fresh air in the film per se, evidently the air quality in LA doesn't improve in the future : )

The soundtrack was an homage to the original, and very powerful in it's own way. It dovetailed right into the sound design and was in fact part of the sound design as much as music, which was brilliant. It added enormous weight to the film imho.


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## Mundano

SPOILERS ALERT! (not so explicit, but..)

I saw the film yesterday

*My* subjective positive impressions:

Really a good film
Soundtrack mission accomplished. Did its work
*My* observations:

Interesting mix between SFX and Soundtrack (in some parts almost unrecognizable)
one only recognizable main theme
lack of melodies
the lack of melodies leads to a very high contrast when the main theme appears (at the beginning, middle and end of film)

at least 1 title written by Vangelis used (I saw it in the end credits but it was too fast, I couldn't read well)
reminiscence of Vangelis: use of Vangelis style synthesizers beds, leads, textures
recognizable Hans Zimmers percussions and Low End
*My* critic:

Soundtrack doesn't fulfill *my* expectations, though good work because...(see next points)
Zimmer and Wallfisch didn't take risks: in my perspective they composed flat and it let the main theme shines because of lack of other themes with melodies (example: very deep sound design approach, the only recognizable different theme to the main theme was in the "make love" scene with the bass sequencer...)
Filmmakers and Composers lost the universe created in the *first* film, and created a new darker universe in the present one (it works, but we are talking about Blade Runner). Reasons:
Soundtrack miss the aesthetic of the first film (for example the nostalgic aspect, they miss also the "orient" aspect that influenced the soundtrack of Vangelis in the first film). Its alright, this is another film, must not be exactly like the first one, but conserve some critical elements
the use of explicit violence (shot in the head..., knives, genocide -multi assassination scene-, etc.) causes darker menace ambient (the first film causes this also without being so brutal)

positive critic: The credit's music was the best of all, it showed a real new proposal. In my view they could have composed this way for the whole film, but they took no risks

*My* conclusions & speculations:

I think composers HZ & W were in a rush after JJ being fired, they took NO RISKS and did their work for the film to work well
Elements of the composers are recognizable, but they didn't *either* done a recapitulation of the first film aesthetic (only Vangelis theme and synths basses) *or* propose one step ahead score for the new film (I mean, something new, risky, that show a development in the music (like in the end credits), because "music" was very scarce to hear...)
*My* statement:

the art of criticizing is very easy, I think the composers did the job well, I can't imagine if I were in their shoes with approaching time to release of the film. Any way, I wish the director had choosen Vangelis...


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## muziksculp

Was Vengelis approached, contacted, or even considered by the director to score BR-2049 before Johann was comissioned ? or was Johann his first choice ? If Vangelis was not approached, that would be quite a bit odd, since Vangelis would have been the natural composer candidate to score the sequel.


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## synthpunk

Just out of the matinee and I have neither no qualms with the movie itself nor the score. Although I am certainly not over critical, overzealous or obsessed as some may seem to be out there. This coming from someone who has a Blade Runner poster in their Studio. I hope you all enjoy it as well.

As far as critiquing OST's I always remember one thing John Powell said in a interview when asked if he listened to other soundtracks... he broke out in laughter and said oh God no.


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## Mundano

a side opinion: the trailer music of this film is really disappointing... sorry men, but could one not be more creative using this whooshes all the time and bombastic impacts? its really boring..


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## Ultra

Mundano said:


> at least 1 title written by Vangelis used (I saw it in the end credits but it was too fast, I couldn't read well)



yes, he's in the credits because they used fragments of his _*original theme*_... I'm fairly certain he did not write a new piece for this movie...


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## givemenoughrope

I don't want to dog anyone's work. Be it Johansson, Zimmer or the guy who does bumper tracks for news shows (me), everyone is working, all the time, growing a beard, it's all hard work pushing dots around. To be honest, even though I'm not a Johansson fan (I should be since I'm a fan of all of his influences) I think that he would have been right for this film. Drones, space, etc. Fine. The score that ended up there was fine. Did they have almost no time to make it? Probably. Does that matter? I don't know. My problem is that I didn't really like the film. Some good stuff. Some didn't make total sense so I'm going again.

But it's just a movie.


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## Ultra

givemenoughrope said:


> But it's just a movie.



No, man it's not "just a movie". It's freaking BLADE RUNNER !!!!!!


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## givemenoughrope

Ultra said:


> No, man it's not "just a movie". It's freaking BLADE RUNNER !!!!!!


If it lived up my expections then I'd agree. But...ah whatever. It was ok.

I guess they wanted some CS-80 with their reverb. Was it really a CS-80?


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## Ultra

givemenoughrope said:


> If it lived up my expections then I'd agree. But...ah whatever. It was ok.



)))

absolutely. I think the good news is, it wasn't a disaster. the music was useless, IMO.

other than that - since others have already spoken about the piece - 3 actors were absolutely miscast. they did as good as they possibly can, but they were not perfect for the role. at all.

Leto's character has ZERO arc. absolutely pointless. the script, once the movie is over, turns out to be much ado about one thing... and why does Harrison always have trouble with his kids in all of his movies ?

they really took care of the VFX, though. but, landscapes and some cities were lifeless - that is NOT Blade Runner. I don't mean empty, no, lifeless. not enough environment tone/sound... u need to emerge in the masses in the apocalyptic world... the black market... the hassle... the chaos...

ever noticed that they have flying cars but K is the only one flying around in one ? ))) hahaha so bad.

If K's story arc would have turned out what it pretended to be, it would have been ANGLE HEART-esque, and that could been quite a feast... if Gosling could act and the director could squeeze that... Rutger Hauer would get that done in improv... like he improv'd "tears in the rain" on the fly... but we're not dealing with actors of that calibre here...

although they really tried, some set design just looked studio like... and overall, the images were too clean... that is not because of digital and DI, it's set design... this is a f'd up world... K walks to his apt which looks like in a prison block after a gang riot broke out and then inside it looks like he's cleaning all day...

bringing Harry back is great for all of us fans, but these generic off the mill same old BS lines they give him is so tired... man, I wanted to see badass RICK DECKARD... a stone cold killer... who fell in love with Sean Young...


----------



## jtnyc

Ultra said:


> )))
> 
> absolutely. I think the good news is, it wasn't a disaster. the music was useless, IMO.
> 
> other than that - since others have already spoken about the piece - 3 actors were absolutely miscast. they did as good as they possibly can, but they were not perfect for the role. at all.
> 
> Leto's character has ZERO arc. absolutely pointless. the script, once the movie is over, turns out to be much ado about one thing... and why does Harrison always have trouble with his kids in all of his movies ?
> 
> they really took care of the VFX, though. but, landscapes and some cities were lifeless - that is NOT Blade Runner. I don't mean empty, no, lifeless. not enough environment tone/sound... u need to emerge in the masses in the apocalyptic world... the black market... the hassle... the chaos...
> 
> ever noticed that they have flying cars but K is the only one flying around in one ? ))) hahaha so bad.
> 
> If K's story arc would have turned out what it pretended to be, it would have been ANGLE HEART-esque, and that could been quite a feast... if Gosling could act and the director could squeeze that... Rutger Hauer would get that done in improv... like he improv'd "tears in the rain" on the fly... but we're not dealing with actors of that calibre here...
> 
> although they really tried, some set design just looked studio like... and overall, the images were too clean... that is not because of digital and DI, it's set design... this is a f'd up world... K walks to his apt which looks like in a prison block after a gang riot broke out and then inside it looks like he's cleaning all day...
> 
> bringing Harry back is great for all of us fans, but these generic off the mill same old BS lines they give him is so tired... man, I wanted to see badass RICK DECKARD... a stone cold killer... who fell in love with Sean Young...



Well, that's just about all I need to hear to just skip it...

My hopes were never very high... I would have preferred the original lineup. Scott, Vangelis and Ford. The hell with "modernizing" it. Who cares? Why, so it's more like every other movie that's been released in the past few years. It would stand out from the crowd more if it looked and sounded more like the original. Well, from your review it looks like they might have missed the boat on more than just the soundtrack anyway.

ahh.... I probably end up going... Haha


----------



## creativeforge

AdamKmusic said:


> Hans and Ben currently live on FB talking about the score -




I like the bit about nostalgia in science-fiction,and the reference to steam engines...


----------



## Ultra

jtnyc said:


> ahh.... I probably end up going... Haha



it's worth the ticket... the visual alone need to be seen on a big screen... this movie is def better than ARRIVAL or all that other boring crap... it is one of the better sci-fis to come out in a long time...

the critique being voiced here is obviously comparing it to a best case scenario and the ultra high cult appeal of the original, although the original has many issues as well...

and here's some other incentive to go watch it:

Edward James Olmos appears in a scene, I have no idea why he did not have larger role... but that is some real texture right there... that dude oozes more charisma and screen presence sitting in a chair than Gosling in the entire movie...

Mackenzie Davis has a young Daryl Hannah like quality... those piercing eyes... it's quite intriguing... almost bringing back some original BR nostalgic feelings... naturally her arc is severely crippled, like everybody elses...


----------



## gregh

jtnyc said:


> I can't tolerate the sheer volume of many movies these days, even worse when mumbling dialogue disappears under the sound design/score. ?



I have been speaking of this for quite a while. With the ageing population and increased hearing problems through listening to music too loud with earbuds, we should see dialogue relative volumes increasing fairly soon. Although Hollywood et al may just continue thinking discretionary spending is the sole province of the young

Hearing impairment is one of the not very sexy "health to wealth" transfers the tech industries have been more than happy to exploit.


----------



## ryanstrong

Saw the film last night, amazing! Loved the cinematography, the beautiful lonnnng scenes, and just the overall vibe of the film. Very nostalgic and sentimental. A must see in the theaters.

I am still digesting the score... I don't think I want to comment on the score just yet.


----------



## Darren Durann

givemenoughrope said:


> That was Blade Runner...? Huh...



I finally went and saw the new movie, having been reluctant at first (never much a fan of the original...movie or score).

I didn't like it. Pretty much any of it. The score was way too familiar...and a lot of it did sound more like effects than music (at least, music as I studied it at Berklee). At times it made me think of XL (which is bad in my ears). No offense meant to XL fans.

I'm a fan of Hans Zimmer, but not of this. Just my opinion.


----------



## studiostuff

Saw it yesterday (Sat. 10/7). I thought it was beautiful to see. Perhaps the loudest film I've experienced. Saw it in a big IMAX theatre with excellent sound repro. Very loud. 

I think Vangelis was able to use his score as a big part of the sound design, and in BR2049's case, the sound design was a big part of the music (to the detriment of producing a memorable score, imho). I did smile broadly at the opening percussion events... a definite nod to the Vangelis opening. I thought, "Here we go!". That was fun. 

I don't think the score will be as memorable for me, but it's too soon to tell. I really hated the complete statement of the Vangelis theme on the steps in the snow, near the end. Cheap, nostalgic, melancholic use... wrong in a hundred ways. 

The occasional use of the SFX from BR was also fun for those, like me, who have memorized every sonic nuance of the original. 

I thoroughly loved BR2049, but the Vangelis score for BR is in no danger, imho. I respect that if Vangelis was asked to score BR2049, he turned it down knowing he said all that would ever need to be said about music for that story. What a terribly difficult assignment BR2049 would be for anyone.


----------



## givemenoughrope

How much of this "It won't be memorable" sentiment has A) to do to the fact that no matter how good it was that it was still going to be in the shadow of the original and B) that the delivery mechanism, ie digital recording, editing, mixing, plugins, etc has less "personality" and is arguably more "flat" than the methods of 35 years ago? And how DOES one produce a score that is sonically memorable in 2017? I mean, if HZ and co. aren't doing it (I think they ARE most times out), then I'm not sure too many others can either. Is it just the nature of the beast at this point? And for that matter, how do you make a memorable FILM in 2017? I think Good Time is probably the only one that will stick with me from this year and that has grossed under $2mil.


----------



## Greg

Thought the score was definitely "good enough." But that's exactly where it slams on the breaks. Missed a huge opportunity to be a soundtrack that we would never forget. The emotions were profound, the picture offered plenty of time for the music to breathe and develop, the film was BEGGING for brilliant music.

But alas, they captured maybe 5% of Vangelis and called it a day. Likely due to lack of time so I certainly wouldn't blame anyone. Maybe it was an impossible task? Creativity is a strange beast, always coming and going in waves. The stars just didn't align here. The pressure alone might have squashed the risk taking and inspiration necessary to explore and uncover that special something the music needed. 

Overall a brilliant movie and amazing achievement for everyone involved. I am so happy a movie like this even had the chance to be made with that kind of budget.


----------



## Replicant

The movie was better than the original.

_Fight me_


----------



## Ultra

givemenoughrope said:


> How much of this "It won't be memorable" sentiment has A) to do to the fact that no matter how good it was that it was still going to be in the shadow of the original and B) that the delivery mechanism, ie digital recording, editing, mixing, plugins, etc has less "personality" and is arguably more "flat" than the methods of 35 years ago? And how DOES one produce a score that is sonically memorable in 2017? I mean, if HZ and co. aren't doing it (I think they ARE most times out), then I'm not sure too many others can either. Is it just the nature of the beast at this point? And for that matter, how do you make a memorable FILM in 2017? I think Good Time is probably the only one that will stick with me from this year and that has grossed under $2mil.



there is no real score here, only generic sound design FX... so u can't really compare anything.. so (A) and (B) never come into play...

general speaking (B) is never a problem at all, matter of fact today's tech and hardware improves on everything and obviously u can outboard every audio stream u want to quality hw if desired

re (A), well first of all u have to actually write a score. this is not what happened here. this was rush slapped together in half a day, and the last people to blame here are prob the composers. with zero time there is zero room to experiment and let the juices flow (those are assumptions, I don't know the actual time tables).

A score to a prequel can def be improved upon and/or outdo the original (obviously harder if the original is a superb score)... Morricone improved on every single score in the Dollar trilogy... the last one being the very best (but, the scope of the stories expanded as well quite a bit)...

on BR2049 this task was actually less complicated, because although it plays in the same Blade Runner universe, this is a different look at Blade Runner... very different... so, u gotta write to that and pin-point everything to the new images, characters and textures...

for example, one out of many parameters in the equation that makes the original what it is, is that the original mostly only plays at night (except the last scene in the convertible in the theater cut - to create a massive contrast)... but that was a big part of the original environment design (similar to what Fincher did in Se7en)... this movie here has A LOT of day scenes (almost all)... a very different look

simple analogy: Vegas at day and Vegas at night. It's the exact same city, but very, very different.


----------



## studiostuff

Replicant said:


> The movie was better than the original.
> 
> _Fight me_


 You probably have no frame of reference within which to make this comment. I won't "fight you", but I will add that it sounds to me like you don't know what your are talking about... Have you seen the original? What to you could "better" possibly mean? 

Not terribly interested to a reply from you. This has got to be a troll joke. I'm laughing with you AND at you.


----------



## Replicant

studiostuff said:


> You probably have no frame of reference within which to make this comment. I won't "fight you", but I will add that it sounds to me like you don't know what your are talking about... Have you seen the original? What to you could "better" possibly mean?
> 
> Not terribly interested to a reply from you. This has got to be a troll joke. I'm laughing with you AND at you.



Oh stfu, I've seen the original, all of the cuts, many times. Probably more than you have.


----------



## studiostuff

Nope. I won't. Is english your second language? Please, look up the word "better". C'mon. Do it for me. Thanks!


----------



## jononotbono

I’ve booked my tickets for Tuesday and stoked about seeing it. My news feed on Facebook has been flooding with so many people saying they loved it and loved the music.


----------



## Replicant

studiostuff said:


> Nope. I won't. Is english your second language? Please, look up the word "better". C'mon. Do it for me. Thanks!



You're taking the fact that some people disagree with your opinion about a movie as an opportunity to make condescending, pretentious, holier-than-thou, antagonistic posts. I actually don't give a fuck what you think about it, and there is obviously no worthwhile discussion to be had with someone like you, anyway.

Consult your nearest shrink and play pseudo-intellectual with them.



jononotbono said:


> I’ve booked my tickets for Tuesday and stoked about seeing it. My news feed on Facebook has been flooding with so many people saying they loved it and loved the music.



What version you seeing? Regular? 3D? IMAX?

My only regret is not (yet) seeing it in IMAX.


----------



## jononotbono

Replicant said:


> You're taking the fact that some people disagree with your opinion about a movie as an opportunity to make condescending, pretentious, holier-than-thou, antagonistic posts. I actually don't give a fuck what you think about it, and there is obviously no worthwhile discussion to be had with someone like you, anyway.
> 
> Consult your nearest shrink and play pseudo-intellectual with them.
> 
> 
> 
> What version you seeing? Regular? 3D? IMAX?
> 
> My only regret is not (yet) seeing it in IMAX.



Sadly IMAX isn’t available on the little island I live so 3D it is.


----------



## Mundano

jononotbono said:


> and loved the music


...then they don't know anything about music... because there were almost no music... only 1 recognizable theme/melody at all


----------



## muziksculp

Blade Runner 2049 disappoints at US box office


----------



## Replicant

muziksculp said:


> Blade Runner 2049 disappoints at US box office



I'd have been more surprised if it was a huge success.

The original disappointed at the box office as well, and aside from cinephiles and hardcore sci fi fans, Blade Runner isn't that popular — it's pretty niche.


----------



## FriFlo

I haven't seen the movie, yet, but I will do that soon, as it seems to be quite a good one ... in terms of the music: like others already said, I am having a hard time of calling this music. Not that music always has to have melody or establish a harmony pattern. There is very interesting music (e.g. Ligeti) that has no recognizable melody at all. The music just didn't have anything interesting - certainly nothing you remember - at all. I don't think it is the fault of the composers on the project. Without knowing any details on this project, it seems to be more and more the Zeitgeist to make film music such a background thing. Ironically, you can turn this music up quite a lot in the mix and it still won't steal any attention from the pictures or story. It is more of a screen to project the thoughts of the audience onto. Sadly, such meditation music is (at least in my ears) never a good music on its own, although it may work well in context. You can say, it is executed decently, but that is all positive one could ever say about it. Of course people like us can ravel about certain synth sounds, unusual combinations and (uhhh) dwell on the glory of the CS 80! We can also admire how dense, yet light the mix of this music is (compare by listening to the original score from Vangelis!). But all of that does not count to the audience nor the artistic reception. It is simply a score you can't say much negative about, but definitively nothing positive either. I would really like to know what JJ had done on it! I am pretty certain, what the producers disliked is what is missing here ... But I don't think Vangelis would have been the right choice. Just listen to the sound pallet of his these days! I admire his "play all in one take"-philosophy. It worked in his time with the gear he had then, but today he's using mostly orchestral samples that sound artificial (for the sake of being playable). His music is great but the execution doesn't meet the standards of modern production quality. Who knows - maybe he would have pulled out his old CS80s for scoring the movie. It would be interesting to know how he would have done it for sure! But I can understand why the producers wouldn't take the risk of him doing it - at least not him alone.


----------



## babylonwaves

FriFlo said:


> I am having a hard time of calling this music.


wow. if you can't call this soundtrack music, i'm curious about your thoughts on punk rock


----------



## AdamAlake

givemenoughrope said:


> How much of this "It won't be memorable" sentiment has A) to do to the fact that no matter how good it was that it was still going to be in the shadow of the original and B) that the delivery mechanism, ie digital recording, editing, mixing, plugins, etc has less "personality" and is arguably more "flat" than the methods of 35 years ago? And how DOES one produce a score that is sonically memorable in 2017? I mean, if HZ and co. aren't doing it (I think they ARE most times out), then I'm not sure too many others can either. Is it just the nature of the beast at this point? And for that matter, how do you make a memorable FILM in 2017? I think Good Time is probably the only one that will stick with me from this year and that has grossed under $2mil.



Zero. Absolutely zero.


----------



## AdamAlake

Replicant said:


> You're taking the fact that some people disagree with your opinion about a movie as an opportunity to make condescending, pretentious, holier-than-thou, antagonistic posts. I actually don't give a fuck what you think about it, and there is obviously no worthwhile discussion to be had with someone like you, anyway.
> 
> Consult your nearest shrink and play pseudo-intellectual with them.
> 
> 
> 
> What version you seeing? Regular? 3D? IMAX?
> 
> My only regret is not (yet) seeing it in IMAX.



So what is your argument for it being better?


----------



## FriFlo

babylonwaves said:


> wow. if you can't call this soundtrack music, i'm curious about your thoughts on punk rock


I think it is good sound design. I should have probably added that. But I should also add that it is probably not worth going into a discussion on what is music and what is not, as this leads to a war between personal philosophies of individuals. But I would definitively call punk rock music. Wether I like it or call it good music is an entirely different topic - again related to taste and personal preference. Yet, I miss any similarities between any punk rock (I know) and the OST of Blade Runner 2049. If there are any from your perspective, please enlighten me ...


----------



## Mundano

can HZ be "punk" (I mean compose music in this direction)? give me an example pls... (I would be glad to know)


----------



## babylonwaves

FriFlo said:


> I think it is good sound design. I should have probably added that. But I should also add that it is probably not worth going into a discussion on what is music and what is not, as this leads to a war between personal philosophies of individuals. But I would definitively call punk rock music. Wether I like it or call it good music is an entirely different topic - again related to taste and personal preference. Yet, I miss any similarities between any punk rock (I know) and the OST of Blade Runner 2049. If there are any from your perspective, please enlighten me ...


i don't think there is any punk rock in Blade Runner 2049. i've just used punk as a placeholder for something else some people say about that it is not music. my comment was purely cynical, hence the "". calling something "no music", in this context, i find disrespectful, unless I get you wrong and you use this term without a pejorative connotation. but you said in your reply that you'd rather call the OST "good sound design" instead and I guess that clears it up a little - let's move on


----------



## Greg

Mundano said:


> ...then they don't know anything about music... because there were almost no music... only 1 recognizable theme/melody at all



People are allowed to like things that you don't. No need to grasp at arbitrary definitions to belittle their opinions.


----------



## Mundano

marksumm said:


> This is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever read... I'm curious, what music do you listen to you? To say the film featured almost no music is disrespectful not just to the musicians involved, but to all those that create and enjoy music like this. If it's not to your taste, that doesn't mean it's not music.


yeah, you are right  , it is too radical to say that, it was way light quickly said like that. I don't want to hurt anybody, I excuse me if somebody got hurt. And in fact, it was music there, very scarce. It was a form of express my subjective impressions. It was provocative too, I got the counter reaction... sorry.


----------



## Mundano

marksumm said:


> I'm curious, what music do you listen to you?



Musica Antiqua, Bach, Haydn, Vivaldi, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Tschaikowsky, Philip Glass, Madonna, Michael Jackson, Iron Maiden, Metallica, The Beatles, Vangelis, Enya, Anúna, Rammstein, Aerosmith, Nightwish, Loreenna McKennit, Fela Kuti, Mulato Astatke, Yann Tiersen, Björk, Sigur Rós, Bill Evans, ...


----------



## Mundano

marksumm said:


> not just to the musicians involved, but to all those that create and enjoy music like this



I love Hans Zimmers work! (I think I have said it more than once..) I am fan of his music! But not this one. It worked well in film context, I have said it too. And I value it also, and had said, I can't imagine to be in a rush composing for BR2049 release, but with all the equipment, all the team and overall talent, it was for *me* as stated before, not fulfilling. Yes, you and others can have another taste, is very good, diversity. But give me one point. Very scarce music there..


----------



## Mundano

marksumm said:


> I suppose it comes down to where you draw the line between sound design and music. For me personally the very timbre of a sound can be just as memorable as a melody - and there's no denying these sounds weren't powerfully used in a musical context. I definitely agree that the score was melodically scare compared to the original, but that doesn't make it any less musical, or evocative, in my opinion. Each to their own!


spoilers!
I appreciate very much the minimalism of the score, maybe it has felt to *me* 1 more strong melody, *only 1*, to replace all the sound design mix with long synths notes when for example K was a young hiding his horse toy, or when K made love with his lover (there was only a bass sequencer), or when Mr. Dekcard (Harrison Ford) appeared for the first time (one citation could have been great _á la_ Star Wars when Lucky Sky Walker appeared again since years of secrecy), or when Mr. Dekcard found hisself trapped from Mr. Wallace and met Rachel's copy... etc.


----------



## Zhao Shen

Mundano said:


> It worked well in film context.



Then it's a job well done. That is the only criteria that matters to everyone involved in the project. I definitely won't be listening to the soundtrack very much on its own because yeah, it's not the most interesting. But that's ultimately inconsequential.


----------



## synthpunk

It is good to have differing opinions, but lets please stay classy and respectful everyone.

"Musicians Helping Musicians"


----------



## ctsai89

I can only speak as someone who didnt' watch the original Blade Runner. 

I found it to be extremely draggy and slow and boring seeing that the characters react to bad situations with some kind of ritardando. 

The sound track was ominous for the most part and sound effects were really good and well engineered but I found the thematic component to be missing. And don't get me wrong because I'm a huge Hans Zimmer fan and loved his sound tracks in interstellar/dark knight/inception but seroiulsy for a movie this colorful and emotional(disputable) there's gotta have been more emotional themes (similar to that of interstellar's) in it. Just my opinion though.

I think I would be able enjoy the movie a whole lot more if I knew what was going on in 2019 by watching the movie that was out in 1982. 

So I will probably do that in the coming next few days.


----------



## FriFlo

Zhao Shen said:


> Then it's a job well done. That is the only criteria that matters to everyone involved in the project. I definitely won't be listening to the soundtrack very much on its own because yeah, it's not the most interesting. But that's ultimately inconsequential.


Well, to you it may be that way. But. to me and so many other people, there is something valuable in music that is written for a film that resonates way beyond being played within the context of the film. It is ok, if film music supports the film and certainly its first responsibility - also what the composer has been payed for. But in my mind, a soundtrack has to do more to be truly great. This one just didn't accomplish that IMO. Time will tell, if I am right, but that IS consequential.


----------



## jononotbono

Mundano said:


> ...then they don't know anything about music... because there were almost no music... only 1 recognizable theme/melody at all



Well I wouldn’t be so bold to tell other people what is and isn’t Music. I also value the opinions of people that are not musicians or composers because they immediately know if they like or dislike something. Perhaps not always being able to articulate why they do like or dislike something but they certainly don’t ponder over things so many musicians and composers seem to. It’s irrelevant to me because to me Sound Design in a Film is music and therefore I am sure there is a huge amount of Music in the film. How polite of me.


----------



## Replicant

AdamAlake said:


> So what is your argument for it being better?



Many reasons



Spoiler



• First off, the film is much more interesting to just watch because the plot is one of discovery; twists and turns rather than the fairly straightforward plot of most cuts of the first which goes through replicant killings and interviews that lead one man, who has essentially lost his humanity, to regain it via his experiences with inhumans with a greater appreciation for their own lives than most humans do. This all comes from false memories of course, but Deckard realizes that it doesn't matter if these memories are false because they are real to the ones experiencing it.

2049 is about a replicant who gains humanity through his _own_ experiences in the present; real, tangible things, and then watches it all crumble away as he discovers more of the truth, and at the bottom of that rubble, a variety of tough existential questions about the nature of free will and the human mind remain. To me, that's a far more interesting approach. Especially since Ridley Scott did his best in the original cuts to force "Deckard is replicant" down your throat, which undermines the philosophy and point of the whole damn film.

• The film and its short films do a far better job of exploring the world of Blade Runner beyond the gritty streets of LA.

• The action sequences are far better shot and the final showdown with LUV is amazing; far cooler and less cheesy, bludgeoning with symbolism, than the showdown with Roy in the first one.

• Ana De Armas' character is amazing. Not only a visual marvel, but she does a phenomenal job playing a character who is extremely relevant to our time. She is just a computer program, and her relationship with K is one of the realest things he experiences. There is all this talk about robot brothels, some being shut down before opening for fear men will frequent them more than real women, the tinder era, etc. all proving that people today interact better with inanimate objects and computer software than they do with each other.

I really took a shot in the feels when she got crushed by LUV, but then at the end of the film, when K sees that billboard speaks to him just like his Joi did, and it's marketed with "everything you want to hear/see", that even _that was_ a lie. There are people out there madly (emphasis on that word) in love with sex dolls or that guy who married the girl in his dating sim on his nintendo DS. One day, this tech will get so advanced that it will be just like Joi...but really, we're just being told what we want to hear and not really getting anything real and fulfilling out of it — we're just doing it because it's easier than dealing with real people.

Forgive me for thinking that's a far more compelling relationship than what Deckard and Rachael had, or at least what was explored in the first BR? Hell, 2049 even tries to put this spin on it when Ford sees Sean Young's character again and Wallace tells him that she was just engineered to fall in love with him.

• The cinematography and sets are far better than the first

• The varied climate enhances the narrative

• The film and its surrounding media explore a deeper divide between humans and replicants than simply being rogue machines that are hazardous and instead an existential threat.

I could go on...


----------



## Darren Durann

I think the soundtrack to Blade Runner 2059 qualifies as movie music.

I think Rozsa's score to Ben-Hur basically puts it in its place as far as great music goes. But then, few scores then and now can stand up to that one imo. Actually, I doubt Zimmer was particularly interested in even trying to keep up with what Vangelis did.

And yes, times have changed. I'm first to concede on that point.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I thought it was a way too long movie with fantastic visual design and a craftily engineered and often impressive sounding, but insensitive, at times gimmicky and overbearing sound design.


----------



## dgburns

Have not seen the film. That said, and since I can't seem to keep my mouth shut here goes -

-I'm sure the film is fantastic, and something I would enjoy. these are actually good times -being able to go to the cinema and see something like this. (and a film composer selling out arenas with a film music review show in 2017)

-While the film has some original members, there's no doubt in my mind there might have been overtures to the original composer as well. Pure speculation on my part.

-I'm of the thought that Vangelis ultimately wins here as there seems to me to be quite the revival in the original film + score. Wouldn't be surprised to see him back in LA LA land in the not to distant future. But with all this things with the big V, it'll be on his own time and circumstance.

-the original film was not fast paced, so while some are critical of the same slow pace in the newer one, it's not out of franchise charactor. Ridley Scott is one ballsy producer, who has the juice to make his own story arcs. Very rare in Hwood. Love me some Ridley Scott.

Like I said, good times.


----------



## Mundano

jononotbono said:


> Well I wouldn’t be so bold to tell other people what is and isn’t Music. I also value the opinions of people that are not musicians or composers because they immediately know if they like or dislike something. Perhaps not always being able to articulate why they do like or dislike something but they certainly don’t ponder over things so many musicians and composers seem to. It’s irrelevant to me because to me Sound Design in a Film is music and therefore I am sure there is a huge amount of Music in the film. How polite of me.


 Agreed totally EDIT: with all except of "huge amount of Music in the film", I think I only wanted to express myself quickly and was a little acid with the commentary. Apologizes


----------



## Ultra

dgburns said:


> -the original film was not fast paced, so while some are critical of the same slow pace in the newer one, it's not out of franchise charactor. Ridley Scott is one ballsy producer, who has the juice to make his own story arcs. Very rare in Hwood. Love me some Ridley Scott.
> 
> Like I said, good times.



One of the problems of the original was pacing (at times, not always)... And some useless scenes while other scenes are completely missing...

This one here doesn't necessarily have severe pacing issues, it just gets unnecessary lengthy at the end when they squeeze in Harry for zero reasons... It adds nothing but drag to an already very thin storyline


----------



## Mundano




----------



## Zhao Shen

FriFlo said:


> Well, to you it may be that way. But. to me and so many other people, there is something valuable in music that is written for a film that resonates way beyond being played within the context of the film. It is ok, if film music supports the film and certainly its first responsibility - also what the composer has been payed for. But in my mind, a soundtrack has to do more to be truly great. This one just didn't accomplish that IMO. Time will tell, if I am right, but that IS consequential.



I think we agree - a soundtrack does have to do more to be great, and Blade Runner 2049's soundtrack is not truly great. What I'm saying though, is that there is that no one involved in the film cares how the score sounds out of context. The film's needs supercede that of musical greatness. 

Of course, it's always wonderful when a soundtrack goes above and beyond and is enjoyable to listen to on its own (my Spotify playlists are stuffed with such tracks), but ultimately that's a bonus that's only possible if the film allows. Don't know if you've seen the film yet, but I'm of the opinion that most things that might have sounded better out of context would have felt out of place.


----------



## Darren Durann

Mundano said:


>




The image for this video for some reason got me thinking of much better music


----------



## Ultra

Zhao Shen said:


> I think we agree - a soundtrack does have to do more to be great, and Blade Runner 2049's soundtrack is not truly great. What I'm saying though, is that there is that no one involved in the film cares how the score sounds out of context. The film's needs supercede that of musical greatness.
> 
> Of course, it's always wonderful when a soundtrack goes above and beyond and is enjoyable to listen to on its own (my Spotify playlists are stuffed with such tracks), but ultimately that's a bonus that's only possible if the film allows. Don't know if you've seen the film yet, but I'm of the opinion that most things that might have sounded better out of context would have felt out of place.



fully disagree. Every movie greatly benefits from a deep score. Every movie.

But especially this piece right here was screaming for a rich, theme driven score... many empty scenes, with beautiful but lifeless VFX that needed an emotional tone or anchor...

if this movie had a score like the original one - not similar, as the movies are very different, but with the same kind of care and treatment - then this would have been a sci-fi milestone. There are other flaws when being nitpicky, but the score can overshadow/hide a lot of that... Star Wars is a great example...

they massively dropped the ball on completely screwing up the score here. All other elements were in place or in the upper third... this is already an "achievement" nowadays for many of the big, idiotic studio pictures... they wasted potential here.

and btw, Blade Runner 1982 made his money back... it took a long time and many cuts but they got it back... reason: because of the exceptional art design of the many depts... this one right here used Gosling to try to attract a younger crowd... looks like it didn't pull, and the score is a waste. put those two in place and even if the box office lacks, u will break even later... DVD, Blu-Ray HD, Blu-Ray UHD, etc


----------



## Replicant

Ultra said:


> fully disagree. Every movie greatly benefits from a deep score. Every movie.
> 
> But especially this piece right here was screaming for a rich, theme driven score... many empty scenes, with beautiful but lifeless VFX that needed an emotional tone or anchor...



I disagree completely.

Those empty scenes didn't need score, especially in the Nevada desert. It's _supposed_ to be empty; it doesn't need "rich themes" that would be cheesy as hell in this context and against the point the filmmakers were trying to make. That deafening "boom" may not have been interesting while K was walking around there, but it did suit the mood just fine.

The original movie had more memorable music, sure, but not exactly by much. I've seen the movie so many times and aside from the end credits, the "love" theme, and that one vocal track...the music was more or less the same idea.

Now, I do believe that it's possible for every score to have at least some melodic fragment that is _memorable_, but the 21st century favours "gritty", atmospheric, ultra-serious films for blockbusters; the romantic, swashbuckling adventures of yore are now the exception and not the rule.

Not every film can or should sound like Star Wars; even if it is superior from a strictly musical standpoint. Movies like Blade Runner and the Dark Knight or TV shows like Battlestar Galactica would not have had the same impact with soaring strings, crazy woodwind runs, and triumphant brass.


----------



## AdamKmusic

Well I thoroughly enjoyed it! Definitely a blu ray purchase!


----------



## Ultra

Replicant said:


> I disagree completely.
> 
> Those empty scenes didn't need score, especially in the Nevada desert. It's _supposed_ to be empty; it doesn't need "rich themes" that would be cheesy as hell in this context and against the point the filmmakers were trying to make. That deafening "boom" may not have been interesting while K was walking around there, but it did suit the mood just fine.
> 
> The original movie had more memorable music, sure, but not exactly by much. I've seen the movie so many times and aside from the end credits, the "love" theme, and that one vocal track...the music was more or less the same idea.
> 
> Now, I do believe that it's possible for every score to have at least some melodic fragment that is _memorable_, but the 21st century favours "gritty", atmospheric, ultra-serious films for blockbusters; the romantic, swashbuckling adventures of yore are now the exception and not the rule.
> 
> Not every film can or should sound like Star Wars; even if it is superior from a strictly musical standpoint. Movies like Blade Runner and the Dark Knight or TV shows like Battlestar Galactica would not have had the same impact with soaring strings, crazy woodwind runs, and triumphant brass.



yeah, u misunderstood.

(a) it's only "cheesy" if the score is cheesy... a deep and rich score - for a desert scene - can be very simplistic... like the opening of Alien from Goldsmith...

(b) the original Blade Runner score only has one really good track for me (I stated this before) but the score and music as whole includes a lot of sound design and FX and fragments that do set the mood in every scene. Mission absolutely accomplished.

(c) Star Wars was an example I gave how a insanely soapy story line can be drastically enhanced by a very sophisticated, deep and rich score. I did not say all movies should sound like SW. Would make no sense.

BR2049 has ultimately a very thin script which would have greatly benefited from a deep and rich score - and by that I mean a _*superbly crafted score*_. Not "soaring strings" - that is not "rich" or "deep".

Rich or deep is the level of atmosphere u create. Can be done by a single Glockenspiel.


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## givemenoughrope

Well, why don't we all just re-score it when it comes out on DVD? By committee.


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## Greg

Replicant said:


> I disagree completely.
> Those empty scenes didn't need score, especially in the Nevada desert. It's _supposed_ to be empty; it doesn't need "rich themes" that would be cheesy as hell in this context and against the point the filmmakers were trying to make. That deafening "boom" may not have been interesting while K was walking around there, but it did suit the mood just fine.



The empty scenes were exactly where score was needed the most. Maybe if K was just tracking down unpaid parking tickets then yeah the emptiness was good. However, K was searching for his soul obviously distraught with many churning emotions. I think the right composer could have nailed something fucking amazing. Johann is a god at being subliminal and not over the top or cheesy.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Greg said:


> Johann is a god at being subliminal and not over the top or cheesy.



Theory of Everything is thee most syrup-y and sentimental score I've heard in a long long time. For it to come out in THIS decade makes it sound like a parody to me. (It's possible that I missed the point entirely and it was MEANT to sound that way?) It makes Desplat sound like Jerry Fielding. That said, it fit perfectly with that awful film, the same way I think a JJ score would really have fit with this rather drab and uninspired new Blade Runner.

Johan would have had LESS music and what would be there would be painfully minimal. I don't understand the hemmnig and hawing over the difference between HZ and JJ in this context. They would both essentially deliver a score that functions in the same way as determined by the powers that be. And in fact, they are both very similar in that regard; minimalist composers with high production value. I think it's really funny that JJ gets all these accolades for being so different and original when his scores (at their best) function like a HZ score and his "original sound" is so obviously cribbed from Part, Gorecki and whatever else you see talked about in The Quietus or The Wire magazine, basically the high level hipster avant garde; but he sure acts like he owns these things in every interview. It's salesmanship. Hans on the other hand has really taken disparate styles of music and combined them in really interesting ways to create something that everyone else has basically copied to SOME degree (including JJ). I mean, like it or not, HZ IS modern film scoring for a reason. And I bet he will be in 5-10 years when this whole minimal, Icelandic, listening to paint dry muzak (which is really just a reaction to loud, cliched scores, but a baby/bathwater deal) is no longer in vogue at the cineplex.


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## Mundano

givemenoughrope said:


> Well, why don't we all just re-score it when it comes out on DVD? By committee.


lol, i have thought about that, but I am so busy atm...


----------



## Mundano

from 
https://soundtrack-universe.blogspot.de/2017/10/blade-runner-2049-speed-review.html
and
http://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=52357

OCT
12


*Blade Runner 2049 (Speed review)*


*Blade Runner 2049 *(2017)

*Composers: *Hans Zimmer/Benjamin Wallfisch

*Number of tracks: *24

*Total time: *93:45 (1 hour, 33 minutes and 45 seconds)

*Overview:*

Continuing in Hollywoods storied tradition of either remaking or creating a belated sequel to something from the 1980's comes _Blade Runner 2049_, a sequel to director Ridley Scott's 1982 Sci-Fi/Noir classic that has wallowed in development hell for over a decade. Directed by Denis Villeneuve (_Arrival, Sicario)_ and executive produced by Scott himself, the new film picks up thirty-five years after the events of the 1982 original and furthers that films mythos and storyline.

_Blade Runner 2049_ follows a "blade runner" named K (Ryan Gosling) who is tasked with retiring (aka killing) old model Replicants (fully synthetic humans who are used as slaves). While on an assignment, K discovers a hidden secret that has the possibility to disrupt the delicate balance between new era Replicants and mankind. The young blade runner seeks out the assistance of an older agent, Rick Deckard (Harrison Ford), who may hold the key to the mystery....

Despite immense praise from film critics, audiences seemed to be mostly indifferent to _Blade Runner 2049_ with the film grossly underperforming at the box office. Granted, given the history of the original 1982 feature, this fate for the sequel should hardly be unexpected. Here's hoping the film, like its predecessor, will find its audience in home media in the following years.

The score for _2049_ has a storied history unto itself. Originally scheduled to be composed by Johann Johannsson (who had scored Villeneuve's prior two films), a last minute change only a month or so before the films release handed scoring duties over to Hans Zimmer and Benjamin Wallfisch. Even while Zimmer's name is proudly trumpeted on the credits and in various news articles, based on interviews with the two composers, it appears Wallfisch did most of compositional work on the film with Zimmer contributing and playing various synths on the finished recording. With that said, I'll mostly be referring to Wallfisch as _the _composer of _Blade Runner 2049_ for the remainder of the review.

*Review of the music:*


The approach to _Blade Runner 2049_ is very similar in places to Vangelis's 1982 score, maybe too loyal for some listeners. Wallfisch and Zimmer employ the highly distinctive tones of the Yamaha CS-80 synthesizer that was used throughout the original _Blade Runner _in a nice nod of continuity between the two scores. The most obvious thematic carryover in _2049_ is the bittersweet theme heard in "_Tears in the Rain"_ at the end of the first film, strongly hinted at here during "_Rain"_ before finally getting a full reworked performance in "_Tears in the Rain"._ Besides this, most of the other connective tissue to the first score is provided in simple tonalities thanks to the CS-80 sprinkled throughout the album including "_2049", "Mesa", "Someone Lived This", "Joi", "All The Best Memories Are Hers"_ and_ "Blade Runner"._

Thematically, Wallfisch keeps things on the simply side with a general four-note motif that weaves in and out of the score (heard best in "_Joi"_) along with a much darker theme for Replicant creator Niander Wallace (Jared Leto) presented in "_Wallace", "Furnace" _and_ "Her Eyes Were Green"._ A brief action ostinato is also heard during "_Flight to the LAPD", "Pilot", "Sea Wall" _and the beginning of "_Blade Runner" _that sounds not unlike a merging of Brad Fiedel's T-1000 theme from _Terminator 2_ with some of Zimmer's own percussive ideas from _The Dark Knight_. Unfortunately _Blade Runner 2049 _also features some nigh unlistenable sound design in the same general tone of the nightmare sequences of _Batman v Superman_ as well. Mercifully contained primarily to "_Hijack" _and the second half of _"Sea Wall",_ this material is easily the lowest point of the score and nicely ruins the overall ambient tone of the rest of the work.

Special note should be made of the inclusion of a handful of songs on the album: two by Frank Sinatra ("_Summer Wind", "One For My Baby (And One More for the Road)"_) and two by Elvis Presley ("_Suspicious Minds", "Can't Help Falling in Love"_). No doubt source songs for the film, their inclusion on the album is fine, though the placement is rather strange with "_Summer Winds"_ appearing near the start of the album while the remaining three are clumped near the beginning of the climax. Again, probably positioned where they appear in-film, but still an odd choice the latter placements ruin the flow of the score. Also an end credits tune, "_Almost Human"_ by Lauren Daigle, is included for those that like that sort of thing.

*Closing thoughts:*

To some extent the score to _Blade Runner 2049_ was destined to be a mixed bag from the onset. The combined elements of following a genuinely great synth score by Vangelis along with director Villeneuve's insistence on ambient textures above all else was going to be a hard enough challenge to overcome on its own. Add to that the last second replacement of composers along with Zimmer being mostly absent from the proceedings thanks to an active concert tour and one ends up with... _Blade Runner 2049_. While not a complete travesty, Wallfisch and Zimmer's work does suffer from several problems, many of which were unfortunately unavoidable.

With the sequel score (and film) so locked within the world of the 1982 film, there leaves hardly any room for the new composers to experiment around. Unfortunately whenever Wallfisch does try to stray from the Vangelis sound as in "_Hijack", "Sea Wall" _or "_Flight to the LAPD"_ the newer sounds and textures utterly clash with the surrounding "retro" soundscape. Likewise, the directors insistence on ambient textures means that most of the score merely drifts by without much of an impact.

Despite all this, there is still enough of interest in _Blade Runner 2049_ to warrant a cautious recommendation for fans of ambient synth scores as well as more casual listeners. A very solid 45 to 50 minute playlist could be made from the nearly 94 minute commercial product, which would be the ideal presentation for this score. In the end, _Blade Runner 2049_ is mostly a musical disappointment that still has enough interesting material buried within to keep it from being a complete disaster. Too bad Zimmer wasn't able to fully immerse himself in this one....

*Score:*

2 out of 5
Posted 1 hour ago by Bennett Dobbins
Labels: ben wallfisch composer blade runner 2049 soundtrack review blade runner new score blade runner soundtrackhans zimmer and benjamin wallfisch tears in the rain song


----------



## givemenoughrope

Also, I mean really, isn't this score and film just a target that can't be hit no matter what anyone does? HZ has had about 5-10 scores that rival Blade Runner to me. Trying to recreate something, modernize it and satisfy everyone seems impossible and unnecessary. I'm listening to it now and sounds great to me in spots.


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## gsilbers

i saw it on monday. i loved the movie! its all i have hoped. its my style of films. 

with that said, i don tknow what was going on with that score. im a big fan of synth based music and hans and to me most of this score sounded like just simple filter sweeps placed very loudly in the mix and a few rare misses - like that LFO - distorted synth. wtf was that?! i mean, it was on random places. like when he was eating a sandwich and the hookers come to talk to him. why the hell did that need music?! .. or THAT specific sound!? so odd. 
i have to say, that score kinda got my attention away from the movie. i saw the original a day before and the music is ok-ish for me. i know its a classic bla bla but tbh, its ok, not the best but it did create that cool atmosphere and sound for the movie. on 2049 seems it was made a little to fast maybe? and trying to copy that orginal and everyone forgot what was cool?  
i still enyoyed the movie and the music is prolly much much better than anything i coudl make. but man.. that LFO synth sound... so annoying and so out of place. 4.5 out of 5 just for that lfo synth


----------



## Vastman

Replicant said:


> Many reasons
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> • First off, the film is much more interesting to just watch because the plot is one of discovery; twists and turns rather than the fairly straightforward plot of most cuts of the first which goes through replicant killings and interviews that lead one man, who has essentially lost his humanity, to regain it via his experiences with inhumans with a greater appreciation for their own lives than most humans do. This all comes from false memories of course, but Deckard realizes that it doesn't matter if these memories are false because they are real to the ones experiencing it.
> 
> 2049 is about a replicant who gains humanity through his _own_ experiences in the present; real, tangible things, and then watches it all crumble away as he discovers more of the truth, and at the bottom of that rubble, a variety of tough existential questions about the nature of free will and the human mind remain. To me, that's a far more interesting approach. Especially since Ridley Scott did his best in the original cuts to force "Deckard is replicant" down your throat, which undermines the philosophy and point of the whole damn film.
> 
> • The film and its short films do a far better job of exploring the world of Blade Runner beyond the gritty streets of LA.
> 
> • The action sequences are far better shot and the final showdown with LUV is amazing; far cooler and less cheesy, bludgeoning with symbolism, than the showdown with Roy in the first one.
> 
> • Ana De Armas' character is amazing. Not only a visual marvel, but she does a phenomenal job playing a character who is extremely relevant to our time. She is just a computer program, and her relationship with K is one of the realest things he experiences. There is all this talk about robot brothels, some being shut down before opening for fear men will frequent them more than real women, the tinder era, etc. all proving that people today interact better with inanimate objects and computer software than they do with each other.
> 
> I really took a shot in the feels when she got crushed by LUV, but then at the end of the film, when K sees that billboard speaks to him just like his Joi did, and it's marketed with "everything you want to hear/see", that even _that was_ a lie. There are people out there madly (emphasis on that word) in love with sex dolls or that guy who married the girl in his dating sim on his nintendo DS. One day, this tech will get so advanced that it will be just like Joi...but really, we're just being told what we want to hear and not really getting anything real and fulfilling out of it — we're just doing it because it's easier than dealing with real people.
> 
> Forgive me for thinking that's a far more compelling relationship than what Deckard and Rachael had, or at least what was explored in the first BR? Hell, 2049 even tries to put this spin on it when Ford sees Sean Young's character again and Wallace tells him that she was just engineered to fall in love with him.
> 
> • The cinematography and sets are far better than the first
> 
> • The varied climate enhances the narrative
> 
> • The film and its surrounding media explore a deeper divide between humans and replicants than simply being rogue machines that are hazardous and instead an existential threat.
> 
> I could go on...




Amen, brother...you said sooooo much...no need to repeat but well said!

I'm 67 and lived all versions of the original...had the VHS, dvds... it is amazing for its time...BUT...it was both crude and inconsequential compared to this...and I think PDK would agree (I also have the complete works of Philip K. Dick and the 52 hour long Exegesis of PKD and have followed him since i was a child...quite sure he would smile & marvel at this film...)

Aside from taking the issues of artificial lifeforms to a much deaper level, it portrays a much more insightful understanding of the future we humans are creating... abandoned coastal cities, massive seawalls to keep out the 100 ft ocean rise we've baked into our planetary future, the aftermath of emp, which is overdue via solar flares or some wack job like trump/Nkorea's version, and much more... As a lifelong futurist dealing with such issues I was just blown away...it took the comingling of AI/humans further and probed more deaply...the soundfield/score IS an integral part of the experience this film engendered and it consumed me...enveloped me in the experience.

Only had a chance to see it once thus far (mom dying/little time) but this film is far deeper and relevant to future pathways...it deserves a dozen watches/listens...it is an AMAZING fusion of visuals and sound....i was for the most part transfixed in a wonderland of stimuli... and can't wait to sit in front of my 65in LG OLED and emerse myself for a few days...

As to the soundtrack, I'm listening to it as as I type and i feel it is a wonderful comingling of stunning synth lines and searing/thundering sound fields emersed withinin an elaborate overall sound design... there is a huge amount of extremely powerful & lovely homage to vangellis throughout the movie and i don't get what all the fuss is about. WAY more powerful, emersing, and mindbending than I've seen/ heard in a looooong time! I view/listen to ever scifi ever made... the soundtrack also stands on its own... being a long term Google red customer, I've been listening to the soundtrack since coming home... it is VERY powerful and full of lines linking to V's original genius...some of the comments in this thread are just ludicrous...

Each moment is a possibility... an endless stream of possibilities...and I'm quite pleased with the choices made here in this spellbinding creation. WHO among you has come close to be so pios and irreverent? What scores are more appropriate to their subject matter? Do i like the three hours of rain/thunder/music version, as a pure listen, better? Maybe... although here i am at 10 minutes into the movie score and I'm QUITE captivated. At 18 minutes in...OMF'nG! Did some of u really not see/listen? I'm sad for some of u... suprised at the names of some who've dismissed this as a failure...shit, 27 minutes in.... rapturous sounds evoking the origional...which could not have been created befor...have ANY of you listened to the score after seeing the movie? Homage to V is all over the place, in bits and pieces to majestic sweeping smears of Vness

Lots of blather going on in this thread...like all the blather going on about the new Trek from luddites stuck in historical moments, wonderful moments to be sure, but to be so blinded....and crass...

I've stood back and watched humans troll the planet all my life... funny to see it here! Actually, it's to be expected, I guess... small little egos screeching for attention! Narrow minded brain dead luddites with impaired perspectives! I'm thoroughly glad I had the opportunity to have my mind blown today...it will take several more visitations to absorb it all... to be one who can't comprehend... that is so sad...glad, oh soooo glad I'm not one of the "shallow"...oblivious to the searing of the soul from so many lines lashing outwards to vibrate and rock the moment.

To those dismissing the powerful soundfield created to envelope the watchers...you should be so lucky to ever even get close to evoking such from your own mind/body/spirit&fingers...


----------



## NoamL

Yet again a composer does a good last-minute score and can't catch a break from other composers! There were so many people slamming MG's Rogue One score too.


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## AdamKmusic

NoamL said:


> Yet again a composer does a good last-minute score and can't catch a break from other composers! There were so many people slamming MG's Rogue One score too.


Two composers. Well maybe one, from the FB live interview they did last week it sounds like Wallfisch did the majority of the work!


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## Replicant

NoamL said:


> Yet again a composer does a good last-minute score and can't catch a break from other composers! There were so many people slamming MG's Rogue One score too.



Personally, I fully support the idea that someone put forth earlier that, when it hits blu-ray, these people rescore it and we can all pass judgement.


----------



## jononotbono

Replicant said:


> Personally, I fully support the idea that someone put forth earlier that, when it hits blu-ray, these people rescore it and we can all pass judgement.



I would love that. Watch that tumble weed pass by! haha!


----------



## givemenoughrope

Replicant said:


> Personally, I fully support the idea that someone put forth earlier that, when it hits blu-ray, these people rescore it and we can all pass judgement.


 
That's not totally what i meant but of course that WOULD happen as a result. It just seems like in the age of youtube and fans recutting trailers and the like couldn't the collective we just re-score it (and maybe recut it to some degree) by consensus? I mean, for a commercial release it's most likely a completely awful idea. But why not? If this film didn't live up to people's expectations and they don't want that in their memory (collective or ind) then make your own memories. It's a completely Blade Runner thing to do. Blade Runner 2017, redux. I think that would be pretty interesting. Then store it away on a server and say "THIS is Blade Runner," or "This is MY version of Blade Runner. Not That." Aren't there 5 cuts of the original? Why not this? It's totally illegal of course...but then again almost every major shift in our industry has come about by something that was.


----------



## jononotbono

givemenoughrope said:


> That's not totally what i meant but of course that WOULD happen as a result. It just seems like in the age of youtube and fans recutting trailers and the like couldn't the collective we just re-score it (and maybe recut it to some degree) by consensus? I mean, for a commercial release it's most likely a completely awful idea. But why not? If this film didn't live up to people's expectations and they don't want that in their memory (collective or ind) then make your own memories. It's a completely Blade Runner thing to do. Blade Runner 2017, redux. I think that would be pretty interesting. Then store it away on a server and say "THIS is Blade Runner," or "This is MY version of Blade Runner. Not That." Aren't there 5 cuts of the original? Why not this? It's totally illegal of course...but then again almost every major shift in our industry has come about by something that was.



Personally, I wouldn’t want that in the slightest. I just want to see what everyone that is slagging off the Blade Runner 2049 score would do instead.


----------



## Mundano

Replicant said:


> Personally, I fully support the idea that someone put forth earlier that, when it hits blu-ray, these people rescore it and we can all pass judgement.



is there the possibility to shut off the music/soundtrack in a DVD? ...would be interesting


----------



## Greg

jononotbono said:


> Personally, I wouldn’t want that in the slightest. I just want to see what everyone that is slagging off the Blade Runner 2049 score would do instead.



Heres something I wrote for a trailer release with Blade Runner in mind!


----------



## Zhao Shen

NoamL said:


> Yet again a composer does a good last-minute score and can't catch a break from other composers! There were so many people slamming MG's Rogue One score too.



Impressive abilities to rush and meet deadlines aside, I think the criticisms are completely different. 2049 is a gorgeous piece of work being criticized for having a valid minimalistic approach to scoring, whereas Rogue One was clearly trying to honor Williams with the score, which ended up feeling a bit dull because it didn't have the liveliness that it was trying to capture.



Greg said:


> The empty scenes were exactly where score was needed the most. Maybe if K was just tracking down unpaid parking tickets then yeah the emptiness was good. However, K was searching for his soul obviously distraught with many churning emotions. I think the right composer could have nailed something fucking amazing. Johann is a god at being subliminal and not over the top or cheesy.



See, the thing with minimalistic music or even silence is that it leaves things ambiguous. There are no lush strings reminding you that yes, this is love at first sight. There's no swirling orchestration at the mention of a key plot detail. 2049 is not filled with immediate conclusions, and I think the ambiguity of its themes is a pretty important part of why it's so good.

And before it gets said (and this isn't directed at you personally), I'm pretty tired of hearing "Wow, these Social Network style soundtracks are taking over and it's so awful what is happening to real music!!??" A lot of movies, Social Network included, don't want or need a gorgeous orchestral score, and would actually become much worse if that choice were made. It's not quite so black and white with 2049, and though I don't agree in the slightest, I can at least understand why people might be disappointed.


----------



## Replicant

I just realized I did not respond to this.



Ultra said:


> yeah, u misunderstood.
> 
> (a) it's only "cheesy" if the score is cheesy... a deep and rich score - for a desert scene - can be very simplistic... like the opening of Alien from Goldsmith...



The opening theme to Alien _is_ cheesy (listen to those winds) and most of its "atmosphere" relies on now heavily cliched orchestral effects. How is this any different from now cliche sound design?

Further, we need to establish that you are not using the terms "deep" and "rich" by any sort of objective metric; what qualifies as a "deep and rich" score is defined by you and your later statements contradict the literal definitons of these terms:



Ultra said:


> Rich or deep is the level of atmosphere u create. Can be done by a single Glockenspiel.



So a "deep" score can be done with a single instrument (!?), and you believe is about the level of "atmosphere" you create. Well, huge reverbed sounds, drones, reverses, etc. are literally called "atmosphere" collectively today, but you somehow feel that a score that is a textbook example of both aspects of your final sentence does not satisfy your definition of "deep and rich".

I stagger to think that most people, when asked to name a "deep and rich" score, would not name something like Harry Potter or Star Wars right off the bat.



Ultra said:


> Star Wars was an example I gave how a insanely soapy story line can be drastically enhanced by a very sophisticated, deep and rich score.



Another inconsistency. So Star Wars is "deep and rich" — high-atmosphere, as per your definition — but when you say that 2049 (and every movie) would benefit from a "deep and rich" score, you _don't_ mean like Star Wars? Further, I know of not one person who would describe the Star Wars scores as "atmospheric" in any way. "Emotional", "romantic", "sweeping", "lively", "epic" — these are terms regularly associated with such music.



Ultra said:


> BR2049 has ultimately a very thin script



Bullshit.



Ultra said:


> would have greatly benefited from a deep and rich score - and by that I mean a _*superbly crafted score*_.



So a "deep and rich" score is one that is "superbly-crafted" — of which, no objective metric exists and we are at the mercy of whatever you personally consider "superbly-crafted" — and that is a score that creates a high level of atmosphere, but does _not_ rely on contemporary ambient (atmospheric) sound design techniques (Alien gets a pass) like Star Wars, even though the latter contradicts your definitions and somehow, someway, considering all of this — a "deep" score can be achieved with _just one instrument.









Ultra said:



the original Blade Runner score only has one really good track for me (I stated this before) but the score and music as whole includes a lot of sound design and FX and fragments that do set the mood in every scene. Mission absolutely accomplished.

Click to expand...

_
So what you really mean to say is: "This movie did not have sound design and a style that I personally like, and therefore is bad."


----------



## charlieclouser

I just saw Blade Runner 2049 in IMAX at the usually excellent AMC Universal Citywalk theater.

Good. Lord. The. Score. Was. Too. Loud.

way, WAY, WAAAAAAYYYY TOOOOO LOUD.

To the point that after half an hour I didn't even care what was happening, I just wanted it to be over. Bummer.


----------



## synthpunk

I think a few of the NIN shows I been to were pretty loud so thats sayin somthing coming from Charlie.

Funny if you start seeing people in the theatres with earplugs! lol. It's probably a good issue to take up/discuss with the film industry being a keen advocate for ear health myself.



charlieclouser said:


> I just saw Blade Runner 2049 in IMAX at the usually excellent AMC Universal Citywalk theater.
> 
> Good. Lord. The. Score. Was. Too. Loud.
> 
> way, WAY, WAAAAAAYYYY TOOOOO LOUD.
> 
> To the point that after half an hour I didn't even care what was happening, I just wanted it to be over. Bummer.


----------



## rottoy

charlieclouser said:


> I just saw Blade Runner 2049 in IMAX at the usually excellent AMC Universal Citywalk theater.
> 
> Good. Lord. The. Score. Was. Too. Loud.
> 
> way, WAY, WAAAAAAYYYY TOOOOO LOUD.
> 
> To the point that after half an hour I didn't even care what was happening, I just wanted it to be over. Bummer.


Saw it for the second time yesterday, I wholly agree. The cinema had also cranked up the overall volume this time around to deafening levels, so the last act was painful. My left ear is still hurting.


----------



## Greg

Zhao Shen said:


> See, the thing with minimalistic music or even silence is that it leaves things ambiguous. There are no lush strings reminding you that yes, this is love at first sight. There's no swirling orchestration at the mention of a key plot detail. 2049 is not filled with immediate conclusions, and I think the ambiguity of its themes is a pretty important part of why it's so good.
> 
> And before it gets said (and this isn't directed at you personally), I'm pretty tired of hearing "Wow, these Social Network style soundtracks are taking over and it's so awful what is happening to real music!!??" A lot of movies, Social Network included, don't want or need a gorgeous orchestral score, and would actually become much worse if that choice were made. It's not quite so black and white with 2049, and though I don't agree in the slightest, I can at least understand why people might be disappointed.



I don't hear minimalist ambiguity in the score I just hear a massive lack of imagination. Social Network is a good example of having more interesting music while remaining ambiguous. Arrival is another good example of that aside from the Max Richter cue. Emotional music can still be ambiguous and doesn't have to be orchestral strings...


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## SillyMidOn

synthpunk said:


> I think a few of the NIN shows I been to were pretty loud so thats sayin somthing coming from Charlie.
> 
> Funny if you start seeing people in the theatres with earplugs! lol. It's probably a good issue to take up/discuss with the film industry being a keen advocate for ear health myself.


Wow, yes if a NIN member thinks it is too loud, that is saying something. 

When the film Gravity was released a few years ago my wife and I went to see it, after about 2 min of being bombarded with waaayyy over the top volume, the rather elderly gentleman in the seat in front had a giggle and said: "Great, I don't need my hearing aid with this film", and pulled them out of his ears. 

I tend to take my custom made ear-protection to the cinema these days, so I put mine in while the poor darling wife had to make do with putting her hands over her ears.

It's a real shame, because our young son loves watching films, but he hates going to the cinema, as he finds it far too loud as well. It's a shame if youngsters are put off (I know he's not the only one), or even worse are already suffering hearing loss, OR as tends to happen the damage starts young, but only manifests itself years later. My dad has serious hearing issues due to his career in the military (something that only showed up years after the damage was done), and there is nothing nice about hearing loss at all. People tend to be blasé about it, partly because it is not a visible ailment, but that's the wrong attitude. No being able to take part in conversations, social exclusion at all kinds of events, lack of awareness, the constant ringing in your ears, endlessly having the hearing aid tweaked, people losing patience when they have to repeat things, etc.

I agree that much more should be done about this issue.


----------



## Zhao Shen

Greg said:


> I don't hear minimalist ambiguity in the score I just hear a massive lack of imagination. Social Network is a good example of having more interesting music while remaining ambiguous. Arrival is another good example of that aside from the Max Richter cue. Emotional music can still be ambiguous and doesn't have to be orchestral strings...



Agreed, it was just an example. But to each his own. I didn't feel that 2049 lacked anything in the sound department. Loved the atmosphere.


----------



## MPortmann

SillyMidOn said:


> Wow, yes if a NIN member thinks it is too loud, that is saying something.
> 
> When the film Gravity was released a few years ago my wife and I went to see it, after about 2 min of being bombarded with waaayyy over the top volume, the rather elderly gentleman in the seat in front had a giggle and said: "Great, I don't need my hearing aid with this film", and pulled them out of his ears.
> 
> I tend to take my custom made ear-protection to the cinema these days, so I put mine in while the poor darling wife had to make do with putting her hands over her ears.
> 
> It's a real shame, because our young son loves watching films, but he hates going to the cinema, as he finds it far too loud as well. It's a shame if youngsters are put off (I know he's not the only one), or even worse are already suffering hearing loss, OR as tends to happen the damage starts young, but only manifests itself years later. My dad has serious hearing issues due to his career in the military (something that only showed up years after the damage was done), and there is nothing nice about hearing loss at all. People tend to be blasé about it, partly because it is not a visible ailment, but that's the wrong attitude. No being able to take part in conversations, social exclusion at all kinds of events, lack of awareness, the constant ringing in your ears, endlessly having the hearing aid tweaked, people losing patience when they have to repeat things, etc.
> 
> I agree that much more should be done about this issue.



Agree. Excessive volume ruins the theater experience altogether. Even with earplugs it's still so loud. I went to see Dunkirk at AMC Woodland Hills, the low subs (as well as fx and music) were so obnoxiously loud that having earplugs in does little to stop the damage. Does anyone know if theaters have control of volumes or do the filmmakers and studios dictate this?


----------



## givemenoughrope

charlieclouser said:


> I just saw Blade Runner 2049 in IMAX at the usually excellent AMC Universal Citywalk theater.
> 
> Good. Lord. The. Score. Was. Too. Loud.
> 
> way, WAY, WAAAAAAYYYY TOOOOO LOUD.
> 
> To the point that after half an hour I didn't even care what was happening, I just wanted it to be over. Bummer.



Don't take this the wrong way but coming from you maybe that is saying something. I keep seeing things like this (Dunkirk, etc) at the Arclight Dome and I don't have the same complaint. So, now I'm eager to see and hear it there to compare.

The loudest film I've seen this year was Good Time at the Arclight...and it was just the dialog, not the music. And I've seen Dunkirk, which certainly had it's moments, at the Dome and an IMAX on the East Side.


----------



## Nils Neumann

With all the hype/discussion around the Blade Runner franchise, I decided to watch Blade Runner (the orginal) and I have to say that I don‘t understand the score at all and I don‘t get all this glorification about the score. What am I missing? Maybe I just can‘t related to the time/era? Just turning 20 this year, so quite shure that part of my problem with this scores can be explained with that. But can somebody explane why V work for Blade Runner is so „good“?


----------



## charlieclouser

Nils Neumann said:


> With all the hype/discussion around the Blade Runner franchise, I decided to watch Blade Runner (the orginal) and I have to say that I don‘t understand the score at all and I don‘t get all this glorification about the score. What am I missing? Maybe I just can‘t related to the time/era? Just turning 20 this year, so quite shure that part of my problem with this scores can be explained with that. But can somebody explane why V work for Blade Runner is so „good“?



My take on the original film, and the over the top love for the Vangelis score, is this:

The original was sort of a "film noir" piece in a futuristic setting. Deckard is the hard-boiled, somewhat threadbare, whiskey drinking detective who just wants to close his case, collect his pay, and move on - until he meets the woman who he can't get out of his mind. The two of them are from completely different circles; Deckard doesn't normally mix socially with the country club (replicant) set - until they find out they've got more in common than either of them think. So Deckard torpedoes his own case and runs away with the hot tomato to live out his days in obscurity in Venezuela.

If you line up the pins in the original film with the tropes of the Raymond Chandler type movies, lots of them correspond. So maybe that was why the romantic, electro-brassy feel of the Vangelis score works for so many people. It IS sort of a modern noir feel for sure - but with CS-80 brass instead of an actual "smoky sax" or "distant trumpet" solo.


----------



## JPQ

jtnyc said:


> I'm not surprised at all. I can't tolerate the sheer volume of many movies these days, even worse when mumbling dialogue disappears under the sound design/score. Add to that the ridiculous overuse of booms, bangs, and slams, and it just becomes silly. When is that going to go out of style? I don't know if BR is totally like that as I haven't seen it, but the trailers I've seen sound unoriginal and formulaic. I think many of us have a very high standard regarding this sequel, and I think that just sets us up for disappointment. The original soundtrack is legend. It has so much personality and oozes with atmosphere (well stated). On top of that it has very strong melodic themes, played with so much emotion. There's not many people that can get that much emotion out of a synth. There's only one Vangelis...
> 
> How is the story, actors, dialogue? Is it in the same league as the original, or is it just another non stop, bang you over the head, fast edit, loud sound design circus?



I must say if you think american movies have such soundtrack and dialogue problem you have luck my home country local movies (In here Finland) are way much more worse in this. Luckily most movies there are something poor i think. ideas are fine sometimes but acting,filming,music etc dont work.


----------



## John Busby

haven't seen either movie but i just listened thru the entire 2049 score twice and was very pleased with what i heard.
the synths and sub lows were perfect and it did have a theme to return to, albeit simple, it was effective at least for me. Not sure how it serves the movie but for i'm for damn sure interested (two thumbs up for the score)


----------



## givemenoughrope

Exactly, the original is a noir dressed up as futuristic sci-fi...BUT it deals with with the parts of humanity that ONLY sci-fi and noir can do so well in their own ways. It's really the one classic film that comes to mind that does both (maybe MAYBE THx 1138). Vangelis sealed the deal by dealing with both sides in a fresh way.

This new film is a DV film with robots and holograms. Meh. I do like the score though.

(I wish Polanski would make a low budget sci-fi film.)


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## charlieclouser

givemenoughrope said:


> Don't take this the wrong way but coming from you maybe that is saying something. I keep seeing things like this (Dunkirk, etc) at the Arclight Dome and I don't have the same complaint. So, now I'm eager to see and hear it there to compare.
> 
> The loudest film I've seen this year was Good Time at the Arclight...and it was just the dialog, not the music. And I've seen Dunkirk, which certainly had it's moments, at the Dome and an IMAX on the East Side.



Well, yeah - I've spent more time than most in high SPL stage situations, but here's the thing - when NIN shows were loud, it wasn't "wall of hair-metal guitars played way too loud and making your ears ring for a week" loud, it was "got DANG it Bobby, those drum samples are hitting SO hard" loud. It's one thing when the peak level of the loudest, but SHORTEST sounds is unbelievably loud, especially if they're juicy fat kick drums and synth bass - it's another sensation entirely if the peak level of LONG, sustained sounds with lots of mid and high frequencies is way up there. 

In the NIN shows (and records for that matter), the drums were ALWAYS the loudest thing, with the super-harsh industrial guitars and machine samples sitting a notch below in volume. Most of our "loud" songs had very little sustained tones - the riffs were "chunky" and had big holes in them to let your ears breathe. Even songs like "March of the Pigs" or "Head Like a Hole", which DO have pretty continuous guitar riffs with no big holes, have the drums sitting high and clear with that wall of guitars down a notch. The only notable exception is the song "Wish", which intentionally overdrives the mix bus when the "answer" guitars in the verse come in - at that point it all just folds up and turns into a swirling mess of overdrive, with the drums absolutely buried. BUT. When the chorus kicks in, the entire mix jumps UP in volume by 3db on the original mastered release - and at that point you get immense satisfaction and a huge boost of trash-the-neighborhood energy from the surprising jump in volume. Not so audible when heard over broadcast radio, but listen to the original CD and it's really a huge volume jump. So you realize that those "folding" verse guitars really weren't as loud as you thought.

In Blade Runner 2049 last night, at least the version I saw in the room that I was in, the thing is that many of the "too loud" score moments had no short percussive sounds at all - just long, sustained tones that had a lot of mid and high-mid frequencies. It was bordering on actual physical pain for me and I had to put my fingers in my ears for more than a couple of seconds, more than a few times. Besides the painful screech of these long sustained sounds, the long sustained low frequency tones were actually causing the playback system to break up - I could definitely hear speaker-flap, woofers hitting max excursion, and also structural rattling coming from the bottom-center of the screen. At some points it actually sounded like someone had tossed a handful of loose screws into the sub cabinets, which was totally weird, not good, and I'm sure not intended. I've seen other movies in that room and they were loud, but the music was down 6db or more compared to last night. Even the endless string of trailers that played before the film (Geostorm, Pacific Rim 2, and, hey, Jigsaw!) were loud, but not "ouchie ouch oh my god my ears please god nooooo" loud. And they felt balanced - short hits were as loud as they could possibly be but sustained sounds didn't have me wincing. 

Those few moments in Blade Runner 2049 that had the "terminator style" synth drum hits and gigantic taiko sounds were as loud as they could possibly be, which was fine I guess, but the relative level between these and the "too-loud" sustained stuff had the effect, for me, of taking away ALL of the frightening, satisfying impact of those big drum hits. They felt "less loud" than the sustained stuff because short sounds need to be louder than sustained sounds to achieve the same impact - but they weren't. Everything was pushed to the absolute limit it seemed. It was at the point where I wondered if someone had the wrong settings on the IMAX playback hard drive array or whatever, and the score was accidentally playing back 12 or 18 db too loud. (I seriously doubt that this is what happened in one of LA's best IMAX rooms though). But it was just weird and uncomfortable, and didn't sound "right". Maybe the score was overly compressed and not just mixed too loud relative to the rest of the audio? I dunno.... but it wasn't fun to listen to.

As to the relative merits of the score, its musical qualities, appropriateness for various scenes, etc. - I can't really get too deep into evaluating it because it just seemed so wildly out of balance with the dialog, fx, and the picture itself. There were a few missed opportunities I thought - for instance, one huge sustained chord that ended on the cut from Joe/K pulling the wooden horse from the ashes in the furnace, and nothing corresponded to the timing of the moment - it was just BIG and LOUD and STAYED that way across "the moment". Then (I think it was this scene) there was a cut to Joe/K lying in bed, and the previous cue could have cut off right at the picture cut, maybe with some reverb tail across into the next scene, but instead the outgoing cue continued across the cut with a volume fade-out in the next scene. Like a music editor did it and had no access to any plugins to splash a reverb tail across the cut. It just felt weird. An example of what I hoped I'd hear in that moment is the fantastic cue in Michael Clayton where Arthur is watching the U-North video on the screen in Times Square, and the music is just a sustained chord that gradually gets louder and then stops HARD on the cut to the Anna's farm house with nothing but a few seconds of reverb tail. Perfect. It made the music feel louder than it really was, and accentuated the cut so well.

There were moments in Blade Runner 2049 when there were terminator taikos at planet-splitting volume while someone was walking down a quiet street, and not walking to their doom, not walking into a showdown or ambush - just.... walking to the next scene. Maybe at a lower playback volume this musical choice would have worked, but at that volume, in that room, behind that scene, it didn't work for me. So, last night, the excessive volume of the score prevented me from really appreciating what I was hearing. I just longed for the sweet release of death, or at least the quiet of my car on the ride home. If I hadn't been with other people I'd have walked out half an hour into it due to ear fatigue. Even my wife, who normally can instantly suspend her disbelief and be "in the movie", turned to me at a couple of points with a wincing expression, like, "Geez that's too loud". 

That said, the rest of the audio was fine - the dialog and fx were clear, well-balanced, and sounded just fine. That's why I was thinking someone pushed the wrong button on the decoder or something. "It's not REALLY supposed to be this loud, right?" 

A buddy saw it at this same IMAX room and then at the Cinerama Dome the following night, and he said that while the Dome wasn't quite as loud overall, and pieces of the wall weren't caving in, the score was still at the same relative volume. So I don't know if I dare to give it another chance in another room.

That said, the art direction and cinematography looked great, and the projection quality and "depth of black" in the Citywalk IMAX room is great. Second only to my 4k OLED television. But I may have to wait until I can watch it again at home where I have my own volume knob.


----------



## Living Fossil

Nils Neumann said:


> With all the hype/discussion around the Blade Runner franchise, I decided to watch Blade Runner (the orginal) and I have to say that I don‘t understand the score at all and I don‘t get all this glorification about the score. What am I missing?



Funny detail: in this forum there is a "favorite film scores" thread, where HZ mentioned Blade Runner (together with Giorgio Moroder's Midnight Train, iirc). 
However, the impact of music is always highly subjective and if the magic of the Vangelis score doesn't touch you, then it simply doesn't do. You can hardly convince somebody in questions of subjective taste.
I personally think it's a milestone in modern film scoring and a reason why (the original) Bladerunner became such a cult movie.


----------



## J-M

JPQ said:


> I must say if you think american movies have such soundtrack and dialogue problem you have luck my home country local movies (In here Finland) are way much more worse in this. Luckily most movies there are something poor i think. ideas are fine sometimes but acting,filming,music etc dont work.



This. I rarely watch Finnish movies because usually the volume of the dialogue is almost non-existent...while the soundtrack is just blasting away.


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## Replicant

Loudest movie I've ever seen was Van Helsing. I swear slayer concerts are quieter.

Apparently, it was on Stephen Sommers orders that the volume was cranked right to the nuts.

I remember leaving the movie and people from several auditoriums down being like "We couldn't hear our movie over fucking Van Helsing."


----------



## Mundano

charlieclouser said:


> gigantic taiko sounds


spoiler
...hated that in this scene when K was walking alone... sorry WF/HZ... two isolated taiko strikes............... the scene was so beautiful and then...k-boom...destroying the suspense...


----------



## Ultra

Replicant said:


> I just realized I did not respond to this.
> The opening theme to Alien _is_ cheesy (listen to those winds) and most of its "atmosphere" relies on now heavily cliched orchestral effects. How is this any different from now cliche sound design?



I could now respond to all of your points, but that statement right there clearly shows we have very, very different views on matters.  hahaha oh boy... oh boy

Alien 1979 is a perfect movie. And that opening theme by grand master Goldsmith sets the stage perfectly, for what is about to come.

Naturally, everything I stated here - ever - is merely my opinion. So is yours.

But, (a) prob best not to comment for u on script structure if u think that BR2049 had anything but a very thin script (b) u know, we're talking here about composing for film... so rich and deep and superbly crafted is a best case scenario to enhance or add atmosphere and/or emotional texture in a given scene... that is all the filmmaker does... the score is one of a few tools to combine and achieve a desired effect... sometimes no score can be better...

it has nothing to do with "reverb" or the "amount of instruments", that is idiot's talk for not seeing the full big picture - I strongly assume u "just compose"... direct a film and or create one from full scratch to understand the full task at hand...

a filmmaker manipulates the audience... if all other factors/parameters in the equation already bring him 98% there then a freaking SW score will shoot way over target... u need to choose appropriate measures to hit the target pin-point

the scene that plays consisting of imagery, production sound, sound FX, ADR and score needs to be rich, deep and superbly crafted. and that goes for all individual elements that are part of the scene - and they obviously need to be aware of each other, and the filmmaker takes care of that.

while our terminology and personal understanding of "rich", "deep" and "superbly crafted" may differ, the above is an universal rule that always applies. just substitute in ur terminology. the equation does not change.

if u got the best score in the world but really shitty pictures and production sound, it won't save the overall presentation. and vice versa.

so as others have stated, we've seen the movie, we've seen the intent based on execution of the image acquisition, the VFX and the script and IMO there's a larger amount of wasted potential when it comes to the atmosphere that could have been created here, that the scenes in this BR universe were screaming for - quite a few scenes could have benefited from a pin point score.

do we have a reference point to support that statement ? yes, BR1982. That is the bar.

but even that score would have not helped much at the end of BR2049 when the movie was 30 mins too long, and the story revealed itself as much talk, very little walk... they touch on stuff a bit here and there (very shallow) and there is zero follow through...

......... compared to Rutger Hauer, sitting on the rooftops in the rain in his last moments, making a final statement for replicants (and/or slaves) and then sparing the life of a killer.... a machine more human than the human chooses to be.

That is _*one*_ scene of BR1982... where was any of that in BR2049 other than the tiny bit of Bautista in the very opening... ?


----------



## charlieclouser

Yeah, I agree. There was nothing in BR2049 that equates to Roy Batty's death scene in BR1982 - Joe/K lying down on the steps outside of the memory implantation lab was, I guess, supposed to be some sort of parallel to the Roy Batty death scene - but it was definitely lacking in calories and gravitas if that was what it set out to be. Still, when they dropped in that cue from the original movie in that spot it was such a welcome change from the relentlessly too-loud main body of the film.

I didn't mind the casting of Ryan Gosling or his performance - to my eyes his blankness worked well for this role. Jared Leto, on the other hand, is no Joe Turkel. Not saying they should have cast some maniac like Crispin Glover in Leto's role, but... SOMEONE with a hint of "the other" behind them. Likewise with Robin Wright. What happened to you Jennnnaaaayyyy? If only she would have moved just her eyes, perhaps looking down at her whiskey glass, perhaps idly rotating the glass on the table, before returning her gaze to Joe/K. Then I would have cared what happened to her character. But the utterly stony, icy, unflinching gaze with which she affixed the other characters made me wonder if she was also a replicant. Was she? You know what... it doesn't matter.

My overall reaction to BR2049, not the score specifically but the whole darn thing, was this:

"It tried so hard, and said so little, and ultimately meant.... almost nothing."

Harsh perhaps, but there, I said it. But what the hell do I know? I put poorly-played industrial guitar riffs behind scenes of people getting chewed up by mechanical traps designed by a "psychopathic madman on a mission of redemption" or some such. So take my opinions with a grain (pound) of salt.

All of these harsh criticisms aside, we know Villeneuve's got the goods. Have you seen Prisoners? One of my favorite movies and a perfect score. Johannson's score didn't try too hard, and ultimately didn't really DO all that much - but it never felt "wrong". I also like Sicario (but a little less so than Prisoners), and Arrival I was like... meh. I also couldn't tell you one thing about the score for Arrival. Did it even have a score? Who knows.

I saw some blurb somewhere about Vangelis being asked to score BR2049 and refusing, and I think he might even have said something along the lines of, "It would be impossible for me to improve upon my own greatness" - but then I seem to remember reading a different piece that described him as being unsatisfied with his original score for BR1982, so who knows. Only he does. The only way to win is not to play.

But I wouldn't want to go within a hundred miles of scoring a reboot / sequel to a classic like BR1982. That's like being asked to do a cover of a Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd song. You just can't win. Maybe that's why Vangelis took the "I won't go there again" route.


----------



## Replicant

charlieclouser said:


> But what the hell do I know? I put poorly-played industrial guitar riffs behind scenes of people getting chewed up by mechanical traps designed by a "psychopathic madman on a mission of redemption" or some such. So take my opinions with a grain (pound) of salt.



Well _I_ happen to think those poorly-played industrial guitar riffs sound badass.


----------



## dgburns

charlieclouser said:


> Yeah, I agree. There was nothing in BR2049 that equates to Roy Batty's death scene in BR1982 - Joe/K lying down on the steps outside of the memory implantation lab was, I guess, supposed to be some sort of parallel to the Roy Batty death scene - but it was definitely lacking in calories and gravitas if that was what it set out to be. Still, when they dropped in that cue from the original movie in that spot it was such a welcome change from the relentlessly too-loud main body of the film.
> 
> I didn't mind the casting of Ryan Gosling or his performance - to my eyes his blankness worked well for this role. Jared Leto, on the other hand, is no Joe Turkel. Not saying they should have cast some maniac like Crispin Glover in Leto's role, but... SOMEONE with a hint of "the other" behind them. Likewise with Robin Wright. What happened to you Jennnnaaaayyyy? If only she would have moved just her eyes, perhaps looking down at her whiskey glass, perhaps idly rotating the glass on the table, before returning her gaze to Joe/K. Then I would have cared what happened to her character. But the utterly stony, icy, unflinching gaze with which she affixed the other characters made me wonder if she was also a replicant. Was she? You know what... it doesn't matter.
> 
> My overall reaction to BR2049, not the score specifically but the whole darn thing, was this:
> 
> "It tried so hard, and said so little, and ultimately meant.... almost nothing."
> 
> Harsh perhaps, but there, I said it. But what the hell do I know? I put poorly-played industrial guitar riffs behind scenes of people getting chewed up by mechanical traps designed by a "psychopathic madman on a mission of redemption" or some such. So take my opinions with a grain (pound) of salt.
> 
> All of these harsh criticisms aside, we know Villeneuve's got the goods. Have you seen Prisoners? One of my favorite movies and a perfect score. Johannson's score didn't try too hard, and ultimately didn't really DO all that much - but it never felt "wrong". I also like Sicario (but a little less so than Prisoners), and Arrival I was like... meh. I also couldn't tell you one thing about the score for Arrival. Did it even have a score? Who knows.
> 
> I saw some blurb somewhere about Vangelis being asked to score BR2049 and refusing, and I think he might even have said something along the lines of, "It would be impossible for me to improve upon my own greatness" - but then I seem to remember reading a different piece that described him as being unsatisfied with his original score for BR1982, so who knows. Only he does. The only way to win is not to play.
> 
> But I wouldn't want to go within a hundred miles of scoring a reboot / sequel to a classic like BR1982. That's like being asked to do a cover of a Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd song. You just can't win. Maybe that's why Vangelis took the "I won't go there again" route.



Charlie, let me play the industrial guitar riffs. seriously.

After some thought, I remember thinking my first reaction to the original BR was that the synths sounded a bit kitchy, now that I think on it. Especially that wide pitch shift with the cs80 ribbon controller thingy, like it was a future-spacey kinda cool 80's thing. Thought at the time it was not going to age well.

Was just talking to a producer today about the concept of 'hiding behind the volume' phenomenon. You know, how it's possible to overwhelm people with volume so it's impossible to clearly hear what is going on.

Loudest concert I ever heard was Pat Travers in some medium sized club. It was so loud that I ended up listening from outside, and it was STILL too loud to talk. I have never heard anything that loud since, in any settng, large concert or anything. I have never felt that sensation of sound moving through my body with such force as to nearly make me shit my pants. No one, no where ever. And I've done my share of gigging, sometimes in large arenas. Pat Travers, fuckin stupid volume.

Keep in mind I have a few marshall stacks and having them full tilt is nothing.


----------



## JPQ

MrLinssi said:


> This. I rarely watch Finnish movies because usually the volume of the dialogue is almost non-existent...while the soundtrack is just blasting away.


So true. and music dont capture emotions at all in some movies. like Vares series. Sorry if you know who made music and like it i dont like it.


----------



## J-M

JPQ said:


> So true. and music dont capture emotions at all in some movies. like Vares series. Sorry if you know who made music and like it i dont like it.



Everyone is entitled to their opinion! But yeah, you do have a point there. Sometimes the music in those movies just doesn't make any sense...to me at least. Who knows, maybe the composers don't get paid enough? This subject almost deserves it's own thread...


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Thanks for the great posts, Charlie - I couldn't agree more with your points.


----------



## Lex

I really enjoyed the movie. More then I expected. I felt like I was reading an awesome short story or a poem. The score was phenomenal, it's unique and fits the story so well. It felt like it was a very difficult film to score right, it also felt like it was Denis Villeneuve score as much as it was Zimmer and Wallfisch. 

I'm just imagining here, but I felt like it's the score that had gone trough a lot of extremely creative reduction, stripping it down and down so that it ends up filled with emotions, just not purely Human emotions.

Oh, and the mix in the non IMAX room where I saw it was just perfect.

Looking forward to see it again.

alex


----------



## Maronier

A nice study in class system. We are who we think we are, and we act/ feel/ perceive accordingly. Still, as a movie, not that good. The score was minimal, which was the right thing to do. But in my opinion also too much in between all kind of considerations.


----------



## JPQ

MrLinssi said:


> Everyone is entitled to their opinion! But yeah, you do have a point there. Sometimes the music in those movies just doesn't make any sense...to me at least. Who knows, maybe the composers don't get paid enough? This subject almost deserves it's own thread...



In Finland is more common.


----------



## mmendez

Some great posts in this thread. Watched the movie last weekend with the wife and we both thought it was great. I'm also a huge fan of the first one. Like with Dunkirk, I found that the soundtrack served the film perfectly, which is what is supposed to do.

I've listened to the score at home 3 times and the sound design rocks but, whereas Vangelis' masterpiece gives me goosebumps every time I listen to Rachel's Song or Tales of the future, all I can say about this one is: Mad synth programming skills but where did the melodies go? Not the composers fault, mind you. They are just doing what the director asked for.

Miguel


----------



## Satorious

My opinion is that the score felt like almost three hours of trailer music to me and the mix was way too loud, taking me out of the film at points. I'll stick with Vangelis! As for the film itself - I feel all of this talk about being better than the original is definitely premature, but it is probably better than it had any right to be. I'd like to give it another watch before passing further judgement.


----------



## Mundano

any similitude to this is unintentional..


----------



## Vin

Loved the film, definitely one of the best sequels I've seen. Exquisite directing and cinematography. Regarding the score, I think that it works very well within the film, but as a standalone soundtrack it would be great for sound design analysis, not something that I'd listen to by itself. Projection wasn't too loud, but it wasn't IMAX version.


----------



## J-M

Saw the film, liked it. I didn't really pay attention to music, but it certainly worked and had some great moments. And the volume was fine too, so my ears are okay!


----------



## synthpunk

The Sound Of Bladerunner 2049 Documentary


----------



## Mundano

synthpunk said:


> The Sound Of Bladerunner 2049 Documentary




Sound Design & Sound FX was awesome!!


----------



## jononotbono

synthpunk said:


> The Sound Of Bladerunner 2049 Documentary




So inspiring. So much work and just incredible. It’s exactly why I love the Film Industry!


----------



## J-M

synthpunk said:


> The Sound Of Bladerunner 2049 Documentary




Thanks for sharing!


----------



## synthpunk

Here is the archived interview that Han's and Benjamin did on live stream...

*http://tinyurl.com/ydcz66ea*


----------



## Consona

rottoy said:


> Overall, Zimmer and Wallfisch did a nice job with really imposing soundscapes to match the astounding visuals. There were some moments where I thought the choice of synthesizers veered into obnoxious.
> But it's telling when they do a Vangelis quote near the end and it makes all of the other music pale in comparison.


This really hit me hard in the theatre. Zimmer/Wallfisch soundscapes fitted the visuals nicely but when the Vangelis quote appeared it totally changed the whole picture.

It really shows the power of a melody. More so since the whole score was pretty motif-less.



Ultra said:


> IMO, the original score adds greatly to the atmosphere but as a standalone score to listen to, only the "End Credits" track cuts it...


Yea, there are like two or three tracsk I can listen to standalone.


As for the films themselves. I thought the original had some very good ideas and great visuals but the pacing was horrendous. And I liked BR2049 a lot. Cannot wait to watch it again on the big screen.


----------



## AdamKmusic

synthpunk said:


> The Sound Of Bladerunner 2049 Documentary




Bit disappointing there was so little on the music as it’s such an iconic part of the film!


----------



## Mundano

AdamKmusic said:


> iconic



...iconic? I differ very much, I can imagine this film with other music.. but that is only my opinion!


----------



## AdamKmusic

Mundano said:


> ...iconic? I differ very much, I can imagine this film with other music.. but that is only my opinion!


By that I meant the connection between BR and the music in general, if you get what I mean.


----------



## Mundano

AdamKmusic said:


> By that I meant the connection between BR and the music in general, if you get what I mean.


there I differ again, but we can continue all the thread so...  . I have enjoyed the film, it was really a good film, and the soundtrack did its work, regardless of my opinion about the lack of melodies, regardless of all my critic and other's critic, it worked though lot of weak spots, it is what it is.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Mundano said:


> any similitude to this is unintentional..



How killer is that first pad sound...they way it floats there and evolves...
If the P12 could control each voice separately with a filter for each I'd sell almost everything else.


----------



## Soundhound

Haven't read the whole thread, sorry if I'm doubling up anyone here.

Just saw the movie. Thought it was ok. Visually really beautiful and I liked the score, powerful and emotive, felt connected to the original but moved it to a new place. I agree with a previous post that said it sounded like it was rushed in that maybe they didn't have time to really explore. I read somewhere that HZ and the other composer were brought in in July, that's not much time to concept and create a score for a sequel to a movie that is a touchstone for a lot of people.

But the big problem for me was the story. I'm so sick of sequels. The tropes used are so familiar they make me feel claustrophobic, the parent/child dynamic, etc. etc., just feels contrived. The writers were the original screenwriter and the guy who did the American Gods tv show, which I've liked, but I think it's a thankless task. Studios want guaranteed box office and so they want the same thing over and over, it's stultifying.


----------



## robertGL

I give it a 7/10, and a generous 7. It looks fantastic, but the CGI was badly used in a couple instances, IMHO.
The story was not very good; perhaps David Peoples should've written it, rather than Fancher. I would've gone a totally different route, personally.
I liked Gossling, Bautista, the deadly chick.. but overall, the movie just seemed like a comic book.
Regardless, it had some hints of brilliance. I liked the creeping mood of post-humanism, but I don't think it was explored enough.
The soundtrack was good.. They even used a CS-80, but it didn't sound like _Vengalis_'s CS-80..
It's definitely a movie I will enjoy watching again in the future, so credit to the makers


----------



## Saxer

The music fits perfectly to the movie. The movie was boring.


----------



## Vovique

The movie was boring, agreed. The music? Didn't hear one. Tried hard to get a sonic glimpse of a melody or a chord progression... I mean, those Big Names got paid, why not a single memorable synth line?


----------



## Vovique

robertGL said:


> I give it a 7/10.
> The soundtrack was good.


The soundtrack was OK. The music was not there.


----------



## jtnyc

I found it disappointing in a few ways. Now I like slow paced films, but his was not one of them. The pacing was meandering and it just felt unnecessarily long to me. I did not connect much to any of the characters. Gosling was ok, but flat. I just didn't care about K or his story, nor any of the others really. When I think about characters like Roy Batty, Pris, Leon or Hannibal Chew "I just do eyes"... these were great characters with very memorable presence. I got none of that from the performances in 2049. Ford was good, but it just fell flat in general.

Where I saw it, it was way too loud, but for me that is a general complaint these days. The music/sound design seemed mostly run of the mill to me. That loud loud brassy motorcycle type sound that would just randomly repeat 3 or 4 times every now and then was beyond annoying and loud. In some spots it wasn't even connected to anything that was happening. It seems like they decided they needed some sound at a spot and just threw it in. As far as the music itself, I really don't remember hearing anything but pads and SD.

It did look amazing...


----------



## jtnyc

Saxer said:


> The music fits perfectly to the movie. The movie was boring.



Simply put and spot on


----------



## AKM

"Sea Wall". Love it.


----------



## Tanuj Tiku

charlieclouser said:


> Yeah, I agree. There was nothing in BR2049 that equates to Roy Batty's death scene in BR1982 - Joe/K lying down on the steps outside of the memory implantation lab was, I guess, supposed to be some sort of parallel to the Roy Batty death scene - but it was definitely lacking in calories and gravitas if that was what it set out to be. Still, when they dropped in that cue from the original movie in that spot it was such a welcome change from the relentlessly too-loud main body of the film.
> 
> I didn't mind the casting of Ryan Gosling or his performance - to my eyes his blankness worked well for this role. Jared Leto, on the other hand, is no Joe Turkel. Not saying they should have cast some maniac like Crispin Glover in Leto's role, but... SOMEONE with a hint of "the other" behind them. Likewise with Robin Wright. What happened to you Jennnnaaaayyyy? If only she would have moved just her eyes, perhaps looking down at her whiskey glass, perhaps idly rotating the glass on the table, before returning her gaze to Joe/K. Then I would have cared what happened to her character. But the utterly stony, icy, unflinching gaze with which she affixed the other characters made me wonder if she was also a replicant. Was she? You know what... it doesn't matter.
> 
> My overall reaction to BR2049, not the score specifically but the whole darn thing, was this:
> 
> "It tried so hard, and said so little, and ultimately meant.... almost nothing."
> 
> Harsh perhaps, but there, I said it. But what the hell do I know? I put poorly-played industrial guitar riffs behind scenes of people getting chewed up by mechanical traps designed by a "psychopathic madman on a mission of redemption" or some such. So take my opinions with a grain (pound) of salt.
> 
> All of these harsh criticisms aside, we know Villeneuve's got the goods. Have you seen Prisoners? One of my favorite movies and a perfect score. Johannson's score didn't try too hard, and ultimately didn't really DO all that much - but it never felt "wrong". I also like Sicario (but a little less so than Prisoners), and Arrival I was like... meh. I also couldn't tell you one thing about the score for Arrival. Did it even have a score? Who knows.
> 
> I saw some blurb somewhere about Vangelis being asked to score BR2049 and refusing, and I think he might even have said something along the lines of, "It would be impossible for me to improve upon my own greatness" - but then I seem to remember reading a different piece that described him as being unsatisfied with his original score for BR1982, so who knows. Only he does. The only way to win is not to play.
> 
> But I wouldn't want to go within a hundred miles of scoring a reboot / sequel to a classic like BR1982. That's like being asked to do a cover of a Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd song. You just can't win. Maybe that's why Vangelis took the "I won't go there again" route.




Thanks for sharing your thoughts Charlie. I have not seen Blade Runner 2049 yet. But, I did feel Dunkirk was very loud. Specially, there is a moment in the beginning of the film, there are a few gun shots - I seriously thought the IMAX sound was WAY off base. Huge notch in the high mids - it really hurt my ears. But then it settled in little bit. Still the movie was too loud over all.

As for Arrival - the score is actually really great but I could rarely hear it properly in the film. It was either mixed too low or seemed unclear. At one point it sounded a bit busy for the sequence.

I really liked the film though.

Prisoners another masterpiece. Great movie!


----------



## dgburns

charlieclouser said:


> Yeah, I agree. There was nothing in BR2049 that equates to Roy Batty's death scene in BR1982 - Joe/K lying down on the steps outside of the memory implantation lab was, I guess, supposed to be some sort of parallel to the Roy Batty death scene - but it was definitely lacking in calories and gravitas if that was what it set out to be. Still, when they dropped in that cue from the original movie in that spot it was such a welcome change from the relentlessly too-loud main body of the film.
> 
> I didn't mind the casting of Ryan Gosling or his performance - to my eyes his blankness worked well for this role. Jared Leto, on the other hand, is no Joe Turkel. Not saying they should have cast some maniac like Crispin Glover in Leto's role, but... SOMEONE with a hint of "the other" behind them. Likewise with Robin Wright. What happened to you Jennnnaaaayyyy? If only she would have moved just her eyes, perhaps looking down at her whiskey glass, perhaps idly rotating the glass on the table, before returning her gaze to Joe/K. Then I would have cared what happened to her character. But the utterly stony, icy, unflinching gaze with which she affixed the other characters made me wonder if she was also a replicant. Was she? You know what... it doesn't matter.
> 
> My overall reaction to BR2049, not the score specifically but the whole darn thing, was this:
> 
> "It tried so hard, and said so little, and ultimately meant.... almost nothing."
> 
> Harsh perhaps, but there, I said it. But what the hell do I know? I put poorly-played industrial guitar riffs behind scenes of people getting chewed up by mechanical traps designed by a "psychopathic madman on a mission of redemption" or some such. So take my opinions with a grain (pound) of salt.
> 
> All of these harsh criticisms aside, we know Villeneuve's got the goods. Have you seen Prisoners? One of my favorite movies and a perfect score. Johannson's score didn't try too hard, and ultimately didn't really DO all that much - but it never felt "wrong". I also like Sicario (but a little less so than Prisoners), and Arrival I was like... meh. I also couldn't tell you one thing about the score for Arrival. Did it even have a score? Who knows.
> 
> I saw some blurb somewhere about Vangelis being asked to score BR2049 and refusing, and I think he might even have said something along the lines of, "It would be impossible for me to improve upon my own greatness" - but then I seem to remember reading a different piece that described him as being unsatisfied with his original score for BR1982, so who knows. Only he does. The only way to win is not to play.
> 
> But I wouldn't want to go within a hundred miles of scoring a reboot / sequel to a classic like BR1982. That's like being asked to do a cover of a Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd song. You just can't win. Maybe that's why Vangelis took the "I won't go there again" route.



I think this is what I would say if we were drinking a few beers somewhere. Ok, alot of beers.


----------



## charlieclouser

Tanuj Tiku said:


> Prisoners another masterpiece. Great movie!



Yep. I saw Prisoners totally at random on HBO and immediately called my agents, saying, "Have you seen this? Have you heard the score?!?? AMAZING! Who cares if nobody saw that movie, I want to do movies like THAT!" 

And my agent was like, "You and everybody else, pal. Get in line."

*sad trombone.wav*


----------



## Kevin Fortin

Late to the thread, but I had put off seeing BR 2049 until I could watch it at home, in part because of the reports that it was being played at unbearably loud levels (so I could turn it down, and also so I could take a break if needed). But when I watched it at home, it didn't seem inherently loud, and the dialogue never seemed obscured by the rest of the soundtrack. Maybe they remixed it before the streaming release? Or maybe the projectionists need instructions?

Also, I really like Jared Leto's portrayal of Wallace, in the short as well as the film. I know that DV's first choice would have been David Bowie. Maybe after a decade or two of AI development we'll get to see how Bowie would have played that.  Or one of our corollary sub-echoes will ...


----------



## creativeforge

Hmmm... Bowie in CGI? Resurrecting artists like him for virtual cameos would indeed be awesome!


----------



## studiostuff

Or if, in the future, Bowie's schedule opens up, and if the part is right of course, he might actually return to give a worthy film a few days of shooting.


----------



## jononotbono

Finally seen Blade Runner 2049 as I missed it at cinema and just got it on Blu Ray. Absolutely loved it and actually prefer it to the original. 

Now watching the extras included on the Blu Ray. Incredible!


----------



## muziksculp

jononotbono said:


> Finally seen Blade Runner 2049 as I missed it at cinema and just got it on Blu Ray. Absolutely loved it and actually prefer it to the original.
> 
> Now watching the extras included on the Blu Ray. Incredible!



Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to get it on Blu Ray, and watch it as soon as I have the time. Haven't had a chance to watch it, I think I will do so soon.


----------



## paularthur

jononotbono said:


> Finally seen Blade Runner 2049 as I missed it at cinema and just got it on Blu Ray. Absolutely loved it and actually prefer it to the original.
> 
> Now watching the extras included on the Blu Ray. Incredible!



Oh man, the bass sounded so good in theatre!


----------



## jononotbono

paularthur said:


> Oh man, the bass sounded so good in theatre!



I waited to see it in the cinema and you know that situation when your partner invites some friends of friends and then it keeps getting postponed until basically it's not showing at the cinema anymore. Yeah that! Haha! Gutted is not the word. Still, it might be the perfect leverage I need to to upgrade my Music Lab with a Surround System at last!


----------



## paularthur

jononotbono said:


> I waited to see it in the cinema and you know that situation when your partner invites some friends of friends and then it keeps getting postponed until basically it's not showing at the cinema anymore. Yeah that! Haha! Gutted is not the word. Still, it might be the perfect leverage I need to to upgrade my Music Lab with a Surround System at last!



..sadly i do know* that situation lol! I should've said it felt*** so good in theatre. First thing i checked when i left the theatre was how much debt a 5.1 configuration would put me in lol!


----------



## Jediwario1

paularthur said:


> Oh man, the bass sounded so good in theatre!



I hate how films seem to be getting louder at the theater, but for BR2049 you really need it to be loud.


----------



## jononotbono

Jediwario1 said:


> I hate how films seem to be getting louder at the theater, but for BR2049 you really need it to be loud.



How come you think it needs to be really loud?


----------



## gsilbers

jononotbono said:


> How come you think it needs to be really loud?



it was so long... something to wake you up hahahaah

just kidding... i loved it. but yes, the music was very loud. (at least in the thatre i went)


----------



## gsilbers

givemenoughrope said:


> How killer is that first pad sound...they way it floats there and evolves...
> If the P12 could control each voice separately with a filter for each I'd sell almost everything else.



hopefully the rev2 can do that. im planning on getting the rev2.


----------



## studiostuff

jononotbono said:


> How come you think it needs to be really loud?


At that level, the "fight or flight" response is triggered, and one's body involuntarily goes to eleven...! Even living in the city did not inoculate me from an involuntary response to the sound level. Part of me thought, "Cool!!", and a part of me thought, "Damn! That is LOUD!!!".


----------



## blougui

Every time a sound comes from behind or from hard left or right in a theatre, I go "what's that sound that's not in the movie ?"
It just grab my attention in a way that pushes me out of the movie immersive experience.


----------



## Mundano

*'I must say I was disappointed': Denis Villeneuve expected 1 more Oscar nod for Blade Runner 2049*
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/denis-villeneuve-oscar-nominations-1.4501100

The Oscar nominations for Blade Runner 2049 include:
Cinematography, Blade Runner 2049
Production Design, Blade Runner 2049
Sound Mixing, Blade Runner 2049
Sound Editing, Blade Runner 2049
Visual Effects, Blade Runner 2049


----------



## jononotbono

BR 2049 deserves all the awards it can get.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

jononotbono said:


> BR 2049 deserves all the awards it can get.


And this movie is better than the old one for you? Man, that must be truely a fantastic movie then, right? I am still curious but someone can say something like that after such a short time after seeing the movie? Imo I always let myself a distance of at least half a year to make my mind up about decisions like that. Just a thought.


----------



## jononotbono

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> And this movie is better than the old one for you? Man, that must be truely a fantastic movie then, right? I am still curious but someone can say something like that after such a short time after seeing the movie? Imo I always let myself a distance of at least half a year to make my mind up about decisions like that. Just a thought.



Yes. BR2049 is better than the first for me. The story is far superior and the story is the most important thing in any film. I don’t need half a year to form an opinion. I also don’t need anyone suggesting to me how to make up my own mind. Just my thoughts.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

jononotbono said:


> Yes. BR2049 is better than the first for me. The story is far superior and the story is the most important thing in any film. I don’t need half a year to form an opinion. I also don’t need anyone suggesting to me how to make up my own mind. Just my thoughts.



It was not a suggestion but a thought. However, it is always nice talking to you.


----------



## Guffy

I watched the first one just the day before i went to see BR2049, so i didn't really have any emotional attachment to the original. I much preferred 2049, and watching it in a top-notch dolby atmos cinema was the best movie-experience i've had since Interstellar.


----------



## NoamL

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> And this movie is better than the old one for you? Man, that must be truely a fantastic movie then, right? I am still curious but someone can say something like that after such a short time after seeing the movie? Imo I always let myself a distance of at least half a year to make my mind up about decisions like that. Just a thought.



I saw the original after 2049... probably not the intended experience! 

I think both movies are trying to do generally the same thing, but 2049 is more successful at it.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

NoamL said:


> I saw the original after 2049... probably not the intended experience!
> 
> I think both movies are trying to do generally the same thing, but 2049 is more successful at it.



Well I saw the original blade runner in 1988 / 89 or something and it caused a profound experience on me as a kid, and up to this day I value the movie as an artistic manifesto. But again: I don´t like most of the modern hollywood cinema as I think hollywood is not capable anymore of telling interesting stories with characters who really develop, but I yet haven´t seen Blade Runner 2049, so of course I can´t judge the movie. Probably it is not that bad as some say, but not that good as some other might think? Rudger Hauer himself (who is a very intelligent fellow by the way) wasn´t that impressed by BR 2049 for some good reasons which he explained. But sure lets see, when I have some time and nothing better to do I will watch the movie of course


----------



## NoamL

The story is not super relevant in either movie, it's more about the mood it's trying to create in the audience. 2049 tells the story visually and leaves the thinking to the audience. The original Blade Runner had a lot of on-the-nose dialogue from Tyrell and from Roy (except for his last scene, which Mr. Hauer made up himself, and his dialogue is what the _rest_ of the movie is _trying_ to be...). 

2049 is worth it just for one scene with 3 actors in it, I won't spoil it for you but everyone who's seen the movie knows which scene I'm talking about.... it is one of the most mind bendingly weird and yet starkly beautiful scenes ever put to film.

With the original Blade Runner, I had trouble relating it to it as the revolutionary film it no doubt was, because "The Fifth Element" is one of my favorite movies and it's clearly taking the piss out of Blade Runner in lots of scenes.


----------



## jononotbono

I’m really hoping more BR films get made. The BR world is incredible to look at and listen to.


----------



## jononotbono

Well, this makes me very happy! Fingers crossed!

https://www.express.co.uk/entertain...dley-Scott-Blade-Runner-2049-Denis-Villeneuve


----------



## jtnyc

As a big fan of the original, I was disappointed by this sequel. Gosling was a generic bore. I felt the characters in general were flat and not very intriguing at all. I love Robin Wright, but a totally forgettable role. Leto... eh, not intriguing or memorable IMO. It was unnecessarily long as well. The story line meandered and didn't satisfy in the end. The music was ok I guess, predictable and generic really. Nothing new there. I'd like to hear what Johann was working on before they got rid of him. The volume was obnoxiously loud where I saw it. That ridiculous brassy motorcycle revving sound would just blast up in places that seemed to not even call for it. It was like they said, ok this silent scene is too boring, put some "exciting" sound design in there. That in itself was entertaining as I found myself laughing at it. I know I'm being brutal here and I did want to like it, but it just didn't deliver for me.

It did look incredible -)


----------



## Mundano

Mundano said:


> *'I must say I was disappointed': Denis Villeneuve expected 1 more Oscar nod for Blade Runner 2049*
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/denis-villeneuve-oscar-nominations-1.4501100
> 
> The Oscar nominations for Blade Runner 2049 include:
> Cinematography, Blade Runner 2049
> Production Design, Blade Runner 2049
> Sound Mixing, Blade Runner 2049
> Sound Editing, Blade Runner 2049
> Visual Effects, Blade Runner 2049



i mean, like i expected, the score wouldn't get a nomination, in detriment/pity* of the great composers...

* i hope my english here is correct in order to NOT offend anybody..


----------



## AdamAlake

Commercial failure and rightfully so. The flick is decent at best.


----------



## blougui

jononotbono said:


> Yes. BR2049 is better than the first for me. The story is far superior and the story is the most important thing in any film. I don’t need half a year to form an opinion. I also don’t need anyone suggesting to me how to make up my own mind. Just my thoughts.


If a story is the most important thing in any film, then just read synopsis 

Usually, I don’t take 6 months to figure out what I think about a product of art. But I tend to separate 2 moments : I can get a lot of fun while watching a film though considering it not such a good one at a distance (Phantom Menace comes to mind as being the perfect exemple for me : I was delighted during the projection but it didn’t took time to find the film not on par with my immediate feelings)

That said, I dind’t like 2049 though the plot is more elaborate than Blade Runner's. I def not like Gosling, neither the art direction (the cliché of the cement/cold future, the post-apo stuff of the garbage field and so on), nor the convoluted screenplay, nore the starting point (really, the child of 2 replicants has to have some sort of a tatoo as his parents? but that’s just a detail).
I did like the cinematography, most of the directing (if that’s the correct word for how the camera is placed and moves), sound design (Villeneuve is like Lynch a master at creating ambience backgrounds) and I really found the bad lady replicant a great creation.


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## robertGL

I watched BR2049 again last night. I gave it a 7 before, but I've got to say that I bump it up to an 8. The entire sea wall fight climax sequence is sublime - so visceral and cathartic, and the score nailed it as far as I'm concerned. I will repeat that I would've preferred a different plot, and that it's somewhat comic-bookish. But it's a movie that I like to watch.. I enjoy experiencing the movie as it unfolds, and that is an element that I find sorely missing in today's cinema.


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## jononotbono

I got invited to a friend's house to watch BR2049 in 4k last night. Looked absolutely amazing.


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## muziksculp

I purchased the Blade Runner 2049 on Blueray 4k, but have not yet watched the movie. I'm really looking forward to enjoy it soon.


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## Steve_Karl

Greg said:


> That is definitely not the legit OST. Also who the fuck wants a CD? Release it on Vinyl...


Wouldn't releasing a soundtrack like this on vinyl be effectively putting an extra hi pass and low pass filter on the whole recording?
Why would you want to hear it in a way that was not intended by the original composer and producer?


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