# USB interface under $300: latency & mic preamps?



## creativeforge (Feb 11, 2016)

Hi all,

I'm looking at replacing my USB audio interface (I am using an M-Audio Fasttrack Ultra). On a Core i7 860, Win 7 64 with 16GB RAM. This card sucks on MIDI so far, and I have had issues with it for years, but not doing much work during that time, I didn't bother. The preamps were good on this... once you found the right driver.

*I'd like to hear feedback on latency and preamps from those of you who own or know any of these? *

*Focusrite Scarlett 2i2*,
*Komplete*,
*Presonus Audiobox* (not sure if it's still made),
*Mackie Onyx* (are their preamps too dry, I remember the 1202 VLZ mixer was a bit on the harsher flavor),
*Roland Duo*,
*Steinberg UR 22*, etc.

*Also: USB or Firewire?*

I'll be using it for MIDI, virtual instruments, audio monitoring, and am looking for simple setup and multiplex.

If you know any newcomers too? I'm reading online, but having musicians actually using them is much more reliable imho...

Thanks! Long & McQuade is having a blowout inventory sale today and tomorrow, so it's a good time for this.

Andre


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## Vin (Feb 11, 2016)

creativeforge said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking at replacing my USB audio interface (I am using an M-Audio Fasttrack Ultra). On a Core i7 860, Win 7 64 with 16GB RAM. This card sucks on MIDI so far, and I have had issues with it for years, but not doing much work during that time, I didn't bother. The preamps were good on this... once you found the right driver.
> 
> ...



Either Komplete Audio 6 (Cirrus Logic convertors) or Steinberg UR 22, you won't go with either one.


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## creativeforge (Feb 11, 2016)

Vin said:


> Either Komplete Audio 6 (Cirrus Logic convertors) or Steinberg UR 22, you won't go with either one.



Thanks, Vin, which one do you use?


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## muk (Feb 11, 2016)

If you don't record anything I can recommend the Esi [email protected] Low latency (lower latency than the RME Babyface according to the dawbench test), and it has been solid for me since years.


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## creativeforge (Feb 11, 2016)

Thanks muk, but yes, analog preamps are essential... but thanks, never heard of that one before...


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## MarcelM (Feb 11, 2016)

audient id14. nothing in its price range beats it.

babyface is compareable but more expensive, so the id14 is really best bang for the buck and top notch!


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## Vin (Feb 11, 2016)

creativeforge said:


> Thanks, Vin, which one do you use?



I have a Komplete Audio 6 and I'm very satisfied with it - I was using a M-Audio Fast Track Pro, smaller version of ultra, which was sh*t.

I had friend's Babyface for a few months and couldn't hear any difference in sound between it and my KA6. Drivers are what make RME interfaces so good.


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## MarcelM (Feb 11, 2016)

since preamps are important, i can only recommend the audient id14 once again. it uses the same burr brown converters as audients big consoles.

honestly, today if you want an usb device for around $300 there is really nothing coming close to the id14.

google it and check some reviews. i did and got mine yesterday... so damn happy with the purchase!


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## creativeforge (Feb 11, 2016)

But the Audient has no MIDI connections?


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## creativeforge (Feb 11, 2016)

I'm finding a lot of support for the Komplete Audio 6, preamps are highly regarded...


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## MarcelM (Feb 11, 2016)

well that is true. iam using only a usb master midi keyboard so i dont really need any, but if you do id go with the steinberg ur22. i had both here for testing, but the id14 beat the steinberg regarding sound quality and preamps. the steinberg did a good job though, but the sound of the audient is so damn crystal clear... i love it 

dont buy an esi juli as recommended. i had one, and its not in the same league. i upgraded from an m-audio profire 610 btw, and the difference to the audient is big!


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## creativeforge (Feb 11, 2016)

Thanks Heroix, I'll be doing some more reading. Amazon has a lot of reviews, and I just found out a few strikes against the Komplete (Vin?) about drivers, pops and clicks, etc. 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R33HPI4WBD2GIH/ref=cm_cr_pr_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B004YPRPJ6


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## MarcelM (Feb 11, 2016)

np... let us know what you end up with. if it is the audient in the end tell the world how impressive it is for the price!

also that scroll control is very usefull - in case you didnt check reviews yet.

its really like i have new monitors and a new mic


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## dimtsak (Feb 11, 2016)

I have my eyes for a while on Steinberg ur44.
I 've read only good things about it.
If you think you 're gonna need more than two chanells for recording, have a look at it.

audient id14 seems great for 2 inputs.


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## Vin (Feb 11, 2016)

creativeforge said:


> Thanks Heroix, I'll be doing some more reading. Amazon has a lot of reviews, and I just found out a few strikes against the Komplete (Vin?) about drivers, pops and clicks, etc.



Not in my experience.


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## Suganthan (Feb 11, 2016)

Some reviews about Steinberg UR 12 stated there is an increased noise floor while recording. ()
Not sure Steinberg UR 22 can be any different.

I have Focusrite Scarlett, the drivers are stable on windows. I could even use it as windows default audio output simultaneously as working in a DAW. M-audio fastrack wont let me to do the same though.


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## MarcelM (Feb 11, 2016)

my old profire 610 could do that aswell, and so does my new audient id14 but regarding sound quality and preamps not a single interface in this whole thread can compete with the audient. 

if you want similar quality you would have to go with a babyface and such... these costs much more than the audient.


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## synthpunk (Feb 11, 2016)

Second the Audient Andre. You can use a separate Midi interface.


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## creativeforge (Feb 11, 2016)

aesthete said:


> Second the Audient Andre. You can use a separate Midi interface.



What would you suggest I use for vstis? And could that eliminate latency issues? I was playing with Eastwest Piano Gold and it was painful. Felt like there was no immediacy and realism in the experience except the sound, and only within a specific velocity range...


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## synthpunk (Feb 11, 2016)

You have me stumped.



creativeforge said:


> What would you suggest I use for vstis? And could that eliminate latency issues? I was playing with Eastwest Piano Gold and it was painful. Felt like there was no immediacy and realism in the experience except the sound, and only within a specific velocity range...


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## kitekrazy (Feb 11, 2016)

aesthete said:


> Second the Audient Andre. You can use a separate Midi interface.





creativeforge said:


> What would you suggest I use for vstis? And could that eliminate latency issues? I was playing with Eastwest Piano Gold and it was painful. Felt like there was no immediacy and realism in the experience except the sound, and only within a specific velocity range...



Most usb controllers do not need a midi in on audio devices. Latency will have more to do with the vsts.


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## synthpunk (Feb 11, 2016)

I see what you mean Andre. Most DAWS have latency compensation built in now, at least the ones I use (Logic X, Ableton 9, and Reaper).



kitekrazy said:


> Most usb controllers do not need a midi in on audio devices. Latency will have more to do with the vsts.


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## MarcelM (Feb 11, 2016)

latency depends on buffer settings aswell as on frequency and bit depth, so the interface does play a big role.
your cpu also does play a big role, but the midi interface/keyboard does not or very little if at all.

iam very pleased with the latency of the audient, and its about the same as the profire 610 i had before (that one was known for low latency).

i dont have exact numbers in mind and iam on my laptop now, but iam sure you wont regret buying the audient if you pull the trigger


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## creativeforge (Feb 11, 2016)

ok, so Audient for audio. I also use a 88 keys Yamaha controller, and a Korg Trinity (both using MIDI connectors), so maybe I'm rusted, foggy, but how would I connect this to my computer to play the virtual instruments? Like I said it's been a while, and technology has evolved so much... 

Is it better to have audio and MIDI separated?

Thanks for your patience, y'all!


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## MarcelM (Feb 11, 2016)

the audient is an usb interface, so you just plug it in and it will work without anything else.

since the audient doesnt have midi i/o you could grab something cheap like this to connect your stuff:

http://www.thomann.de/de/thomann_midi_usb_1x1.htm

there are other options like this, but this is an example and it would work.

you could also buy a new master keyboard which is also connected to your computer via usb, but i guess you would like to keep your stuff. 

iam glad to help btw... i am still a beginner composer and learned ALOT here on VI... iam happy to give something back if i can


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 11, 2016)

I do writing for iConnectivity, so I'm biased, but it's worth taking a look at the iConnectAUDIO4+.

It has both 5-pin and USB MIDI (up to eight devices with a powered hub), and it supports two computers at the same time. And it routes audio and MIDI between the two computers (Mac/PC/iOS), so there's an additional 16 tracks (depending on settings) of internal audio as well as the regular six outputs.

The latency is the same as everyone's interface: <3ms through the box. It's software that adds the latency, not the hardware - contrary to what you read all over about drivers and stuff.


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## synthpunk (Feb 11, 2016)

Many good suggestions here Andre. For midi I/O I would probably look for something used on Ebay or Craigslists, but if you go new something like MOTU.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/microlite



creativeforge said:


> ok, so Audient for audio. I also use a 88 keys Yamaha controller, and a Korg Trinity (both using MIDI connectors), so maybe I'm rusted, foggy, but how would I connect this to my computer to play the virtual instruments? Like I said it's been a while, and technology has evolved so much...
> 
> Is it better to have audio and MIDI separated?
> 
> Thanks for your patience, y'all!


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## Maximvs (Feb 12, 2016)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I do writing for iConnectivity, so I'm biased, but it's worth taking a look at the iConnectAUDIO4+.
> 
> It has both 5-pin and USB MIDI (up to eight devices with a powered hub), and it supports two computers at the same time. And it routes audio and MIDI between the two computers (Mac/PC/iOS), so there's an additional 16 tracks (depending on settings) of internal audio as well as the regular six outputs.
> 
> The latency is the same as everyone's interface: <3ms through the box. It's software that adds the latency, not the hardware - contrary to what you read all over about drivers and stuff.



I can say that iConnectivity gear are great and very reliable. I personally purchased a few weeks ago the Mio 1 In and 1 Out MIDI to USB interface to connect my GEM S3 Turbo to my studio PC and everything works great straight out of the box (http://www.iconnectivity.com/products/midi/mio).


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## kitekrazy (Feb 12, 2016)

Heroix said:


> audient id14. nothing in its price range beats it.
> 
> babyface is compareable but more expensive, so the id14 is really best bang for the buck and top notch!



I might think about getting one of these. What kind of latency are you getting.


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## MarcelM (Feb 13, 2016)

i cannot post any numbers since i am not at home, but overall i was very pleased and didnt have any problem with the audient. for the money its really a beast.

i suggest you read this, but overall you will only read good things about the audient - no matter where you look.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1044201-your-opinion-good-latency-time.html


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## creativeforge (Feb 23, 2016)

Well, I finally got myself a dedicated MIDI-USB and it eliminated my latency problem. Very happy for that. 






I keep in mind the RME line and Audient for future upgrades.

Thanks for chipping in!

Andre


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## icomposer (Jan 30, 2017)

I know this is an old thread but didn't feel like starting a new one.

After doing some extensive research across different forums, I too would like to purchase the Audient14 or the 22. I stumbled upon this thread only to find out there is no midi i/o. [Chuckles]

I will be recording midi one at a time, so I might just buy the Komplete 6 - also has good reviews it seems. Still a little skeptical about the clicks and pops, but that seems to be faulty usb cable, and new update seem to fixed this issue.

Was curious if you have upgraded since you made made this thread. You don't need the sound card? Why MIDI-USB? Will that make any difference on sound quality?


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## passsacaglia (Feb 2, 2017)

I'm a user who'll jump on the Audient train!
For the crystal clear quality Heroix reports (and all the time Iv spent on GZ), I'm super confident in buying the iD14 -wont need the extras on the iD22.
Latency also is top class and have to some users been as good as the RME or even better (cant remember the thread).
Super stable, top class high preamps and headphone amp.
For the price it seems to slash everything in its way as well as more expensive interfaces!
Great customer support, always there etc.
Ah, so many good reviews and reports and happy users out there, Audient will Def. have my money!


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## tweetertech (Apr 3, 2018)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The latency is the same as everyone's interface: <3ms through the box. It's software that adds the latency, not the hardware - contrary to what you read all over about drivers and stuff.


Sorry for resurrecting an older thread, but I was hoping you could expand on this? I've got some mios and would like to reduce their latency if possible.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 4, 2018)

tweetertech said:


> Sorry for resurrecting an older thread, but I was hoping you could expand on this? I've got some mios and would like to reduce their latency if possible.



My hunch is that your bottleneck isn't the MIDI interfaces, it's your buffer size.

What's your setup?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 4, 2018)

By the way, I was probably talking about audio, not MIDI.


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## Craig Duke (Apr 4, 2018)

Heroix said:


> the audient is an usb interface, so you just plug it in and it will work without anything else. since the audient doesnt have midi i/o you could grab something cheap like this to connect your stuff:
> http://www.thomann.de/de/thomann_midi_usb_1x1.htm



I also have an Audient iD14. Very nice. It was recommended by my DAWS builder as the best, in his opinion, under $500 option. I also have an older 88 key Yamaha that I use one of these inexpensive Midi to USB converters. Works fine.


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## tweetertech (Apr 6, 2018)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> My hunch is that your bottleneck isn't the MIDI interfaces, it's your buffer size.
> 
> What's your setup?


We're running four mio10s in parallel connected to the Mac via USB.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 6, 2018)

tweetertech said:


> We're running four mio10s in parallel connected to the Mac via USB.



A good test would be to stick a mic on your keyboard and another one next to a speaker. Record the noise your finger makes on the keyboard, the MIDI you're sending, and the audio being triggered simultaneously.

Put the tracks next to one another. You'll see the delay between your fingers, MIDI, and sound output.

Now, there are some minor things to figure in if you want to be anal about this, like the 1.1' per millisecond speed-of-sound delay. You'll also have to subtract the recording latency, i.e. the mic on the speaker will be subject to the same latency the one on your fingers is; subtract that. But this much detail shouldn't be necessary for what you're trying to determine: where the latency is that's pissing you off.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 6, 2018)

Also, I don't have a mio10 here at the moment, but if I remember right there's a number of frames or something setting in iConfig.


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## tweetertech (Apr 6, 2018)

Oddly, just _having _them plugged in seems to cause latency (even when they aren't being actively used). Physically disconnecting them from the system makes things milliseconds faster!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 7, 2018)

Sounds like a USB buffering issue.

Does it happen if you plug only one in? I never noticed that when I had one here, but that doesn't mean much.

Also, does it get better if you don't connect them all to the same USB bus or hub?


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