# Score The World 2 contest - feedback requested



## marclawsonmusic (Mar 15, 2021)

I thought I had a good idea for how to approach this scene, but I must have been wrong. I would appreciate any constructive feedback to help me improve.

My approach was:

Score the characters' emotions, not the scene.
Do the homework:
These are Hungarian Jews, recently escaped from a prison camp. There should be tension throughout.
The main character suffered a great loss immediately before this scene, so he feels defeated.
The smile on the main character's face is the first time he has shown happiness the entire movie.

The scene doesn't need wall-to-wall music.
Instrumentation should be fairly light (definitely not full orchestra), and should include ethnic instruments.
Harmonically, the music should be structured around the characters - so I chose Jewish and Hungarian folk music as a reference.
The key moment (very touching) is when the man smiles, and my interpretation was that he was reminded of _innocence _- perhaps his own childhood. The melody on the music box is from a 1200 year-old Hungarian folk song that every child in Hungary knows.
So... tell me what I did wrong. Too complicated? Poor execution? Bad mix? Wrong approach? Music overpowering? Keep my day job? Jump off a bridge? LOL

Thanks in advance


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## TiagoG (Mar 15, 2021)

I think this sounds great! The instrumentation and orchestration really blends in and supports the picture. 

The only thing I would probably change is the mood of the last section (when the soldiers show up). To me it came across as a darker/sadder scene, but the music (great as it was) gave me more of an adventure or mystery vibe. 

Disclaimer - I'm an amateur


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## Illico (Mar 15, 2021)

I'm totally agree with all your points. I also had the same approach during the contest. I listened lots of Jewish melodies. I selected folks hungarian instruments and enjoyed playing with it.
Orchestration and mix seems good to me.
The introduction was good. I think, on the key moment, the music box instrument did not fit the scene and was too much in front, too obvious, or too "childish" feeling. It could be much more on background to let audience the choose to listen it (some remembrance). The chords progression during the child escape just before soldiers appear, also did not fit the scene (need sadder vibe).
Sorry if my feedback sounds rough, it was not my intention.
Do not jump off the bridge, but cross it, and go on ! LOL.
This such contest exercise is very good.
Disclaimer - an another amateur


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## Composerbell (Mar 15, 2021)

Very cool weaving the cultural context in. I think there's a few things that I would have pushed for differently though.

1) Filmmakers in the modern day are always pushing for tension, reserving release only for major moments in a film. What you've done with the piano is cool, but feels much more 80's or earlier in aesthetic, like what you might expect Morricone to have done with such a scene.

2) You say the moment of happiness comes on the smile, but I really felt like the smile came much, much later than the music did (more like 2:20, when his cheek finally creases).

3) Dropping out on the open door and running silent for that felt like a long time. What should we be feeling here? When they're running at the beginning, the restless motion of the camera helps convey a sense of tension and desperation, so I don't actually find scoring there super necessary (but it wasn't bad either). But the blank image of the door didn't convey much. Are we afraid of soldiers coming through? That's where my mind went. So I would suggest something subtle and tense through that shot to the boy appearing. How do we know the boy isn't dangerous? A snitch? I'd suggest a turn on the kid arriving, but reserving a relaxation until the smile actually comes through at 2:20 as we're suspicious of the kid until then.

4) Nice shift on the kid getting grabbed! But again, I'd say it felt overly positive and gentle as the kid is running - the camera is low to the ground, kid level, hiding the men in the bushes. Crank the surprise factor and go much darker. And then as the kid runs off, I'd suggest another shift once he's out of screen - currently it just rolls through and doesn't really acknowledge that we've left the kid to stay behind to hear the death.

5) The bass boom right at the top gives off a very strong "trailer" vibe, which is kinda cool - but not really what you'd want to do if you were really scoring the scene for real. Now, this is a competition, and winning competitions is very different from scoring stuff for real commercial use, so none of what I've said maybe even really matters - but I think what I've said would be helpful in terms of doing it as an actual scoring gig.


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## TiagoG (Mar 16, 2021)

Composerbell said:


> How do we know the boy isn't dangerous? A snitch?


That's exactly what I thought when I first saw the kid.


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## marclawsonmusic (Mar 16, 2021)

Thanks for all the feedback.

All the things everyone mentioned were creative choices I made (music playing or not, type of music, etc.) Again, the music was written from the perspective of the characters' emotions, not intended to follow everything literally on screen... so when the men arrived at the shack, I felt there was a sense of resolve while they plotted their next move. They were safe for the moment.

The boy... again, if you understood the backstory it might make more sense... but the man had just lost the body of _another _boy in a river (he wanted to give the child a proper burial), and he was disoriented. So when he sees a boy in the doorway... 'Is this real? Is it a dream?' But then he realizes it's just an innocent kid and smiles. I decided to continue that happy moment while the boy was running away to give a false sense of hope (?) (and of course the man is still smiling back at the shack). But we are then rudely pulled back into reality at the ambush.

All creative choices, all intentional, but clearly _not _the right ones for this contest. 

If I had scored the scene solely based on what I saw on camera (and didn't dig so much into backstory), I probably would have done better in the contest. In the real world, I would have presented my ideas to a director early in the process and they would have either liked them or not... but with these contests you have no choice but to run with one idea and hope the judges like it. In my case, they didn't. C'est la vie.

Now, back to the day job!


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## Composerbell (Mar 16, 2021)

Hey yeah - just wanted to pop in and say that on a technical level, everything you've got going sounds fine. Decent mix, mockup quality is good. So yeah, on that level, you're totally good - it really does come down to creative choices. And at least as far as my notes go, I want to reiterate that I have not won these sorts of competitions (closest was a runner up on the Pannonia one a couple years back, but I generally don't have time to participate in these kinds of things). My feedback more was my understanding of what tends to work for directors in a general sense. You mentioned in your opening text "There should be tension throughout." I completely agree with this assesment. I just didn't find this to hold true with the actual execution here. Would it have helped win? No idea!


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## Macrawn (Mar 16, 2021)

What's wrong with it? I thought it was one of the better scene scores I've seen on the forum. Most things I see like this are not that great but yours is good. Music blends perfectly, I think it captures it well. 

I think to win something like this not only does it have to be really good, it has to match the preconceptions someone else has, and there is no predicting that. So it has to be good, and it has to have some level of chance that it matches a judges idea. 

I guess someone else could score it differently, create a different mood and win just because it matched how another person's preconceived idea about it. (assuming it's high quality work). 

Great piece, I'm sure it was a contender. You didn't get lucky, don't fault the work on this one.


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## marclawsonmusic (Mar 17, 2021)

Thank you both. I was just disappointed and beating myself up. After a couple days of reflection (and these helpful comments), I've realized that much of this is subjective. 

This particularly rings true:


Macrawn said:


> ...it has to match the preconceptions someone else has, and there is no predicting that.



I think this also applies to getting gigs and whether people like (or 'get') your art. I guess the lesson is you can do something that you are personally proud of, but still not win or get the gig.


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## Manfred (Mar 17, 2021)

I appreciate very much not only the final version of your score, but especially your approach. How you think about the characters, the emotional “mood” of the scene, the ethnic and historic values, and the human psychology are all strong indicators of what you bring to your work. I so agree that film music doesn’t need to be wall-to-wall music (as it often seems to be in scoring competitions), but rather a “spice” that supports the filmmaker’s vision. Often a single note conveys more then a long run of notes only a virtuoso could play! Music should never get in the way of the film’s story. Silence, especially in this piece, is golden, and an instrument in itself in your score. I love that choice made! ”Too busy“ music is like seeing the sound boom mic on screen that couldn’t be edited out. Sensitive music is very difficult to create, especially music that “fits” a film scene...you accomplished that. Your sensitivity to such matters is a real feather in your cap, and will distinguish you! Stay the path friend! You have real talent! The music your wrote is very, very good, and your ability to support the story on screen is very strong. Keep writing music/scores as you know best and filmmakers will find you. 

Best,
Manfred


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## Composerbell (Mar 17, 2021)

Ha! You’re catching on. Ravel did NOT think Bolero was a great piece of music, and yet it’s by far his most famous piece. I’ve had to struggle many times axing what I thought was a perfect cue (or wreck it with “bad” changes) because what the directer wanted was different.
Getting gigs is super hard. Many first time directors are looking for that “perfect match” because they don’t know how much a composer can change in revisions. Conversely, early career composers tend to not WANT to change their music much, so there’s a fairly intense contrast there. I’m not much help in regards to getting first connections, but in order to maintain a relationship, having a willingness to abandon your vision for the score to do what the director’s vision is instead (with a smile and no complaints) is a major part of getting them to come back on the next project. Which is not to say you can’t try to convince them your idea is better....just be prepared that 9 times out of 10, you’re the one who is going to adapt, not them.


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## Manfred (Mar 17, 2021)

Composerbell said:


> Ha! You’re catching on. Ravel did NOT think Bolero was a great piece of music, and yet it’s by far his most famous piece. I’ve had to struggle many times axing what I thought was a perfect cue (or wreck it with “bad” changes) because what the directer wanted was different.
> Getting gigs is super hard. Many first time directors are looking for that “perfect match” because they don’t know how much a composer can change in revisions. Conversely, early career composers tend to not WANT to change their music much, so there’s a fairly intense contrast there. I’m not much help in regards to getting first connections, but in order to maintain a relationship, having a willingness to abandon your vision for the score to do what the director’s vision is instead (with a smile and no complaints) is a major part of getting them to come back on the next project. Which is not to say you can’t try to convince them your idea is better....just be prepared that 9 times out of 10, you’re the one who is going to adapt, not them.


Great point/post! Collaboration is key in film scoring.


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## Stringtree (Mar 17, 2021)

This was hard to watch because it's so sad. 

But I was drawn in by the story and forgot the music. I was "in the mind" of the characters. There's a whole-tone rise that jolted me out of it and I didn't really care for, but on the whole, it was a wonderful, terrifying scoring. What's happening onscreen is detestable, and this sinuous music supported the drama unfolding. 

The coolest thing was that for the most part, I didn't really notice any music. It did its job so well.

There's a lack of any music at one point, and its absence is curious. I didn't like the letdown.

Thanks for putting your music on display. It's a privilege to listen to, and I hope a lot of good comes from this. At the very least, I'm knocked down a few pegs on my ladder because I'm a constant learner. The good that came out of this for me is that I heard a really bright star and strive to be that good.


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## stigc56 (Mar 17, 2021)

I sounded fine to me. The story and the pictures hold so much emotion in it self. If I should comment, I will say that the concert hall sound emphasized by the Gran Casa, doesn't play to well with the "outdoor"/"documentary" feeling. The drone in the start is too static, maybe. The modulation a minor third up (2:25) is kind of telling another story, if you understand what I mean.


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## marclawsonmusic (Mar 17, 2021)

@Manfred, I can't thank you enough for your kind words. I needed a bit of encouragement and this was really uplifting. You made my day.

@Stringtree, the story is devastating isn't it? But I can't think of a nicer compliment than this, so thank you:


Stringtree said:


> But I was drawn in by the story and forgot the music. I was "in the mind" of the characters.



Thanks also to @stigc56 for your feedback. Maybe there is a better way to get an organic 'sub bass' boom without the gran casa... I just knew I didn't want to use a synth. Certainly something to think about for the next project.

@Composerbell, you are right about the collaboration. I am not married to my approach - in fact, it would have been wonderful to get some feedback and make it even better. I guess that's why contests are so tricky... you work in a vacuum until the premiere!


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## Prone69 (Mar 26, 2021)

Hi Marclawsonmusic,

I also feel a great disappointment with my work. For me the appearance of the child gave me the feeling of tension. In fact the whole scene for me is one of tension, drama. Although I later associated a rather childish melody with the memory that awakens in the main character. I would like to hear your opinions ...

Thanks


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## marclawsonmusic (Mar 26, 2021)

Prone69 said:


> I would like to hear your opinions ...


Dear Prone69,

I think your music was brilliantly orchestrated and rendered. Harmonically, it was also very interesting and had some lovely old school vibes. Well done.

However, for me, I felt the full orchestra was too 'big' for this scene. The choirs make it sound even 'bigger'. But clearly the judges did not agree, because the winning entries had full string sections.

I wish you the best in your musical endeavors,
Marcus


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## Illico (Mar 26, 2021)

Prone69 said:


> Hi Marclawsonmusic,
> 
> I also feel a great disappointment with my work. For me the appearance of the child gave me the feeling ...
> 
> Thanks


I'm totally agree with @marclawsonmusic feedbacks. And I'll be honest with you @Prone69 , I did not anderstand the end of your track. What are your intentions on the last 30 secondes bars (glock + snares + triangle and bandoneon)? Its sounds like a comedy, but here we are talking about something very strong, Jewish–Hungarian prisoners in Auschwitz. Hope you anderstand my desapoinment and this is for a constructive feedbacks of course. Regards


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## Manfred (Mar 26, 2021)

Greeting! Is anyone willing to share the unscored video? I missed the competition, and would love to take a try to this beautiful film.
Thanks!!!


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## marclawsonmusic (Mar 26, 2021)

Sent you a PM, @Manfred


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