# Spitfire's New Solo Strings



## artomatic (Jun 5, 2018)

I'm hoping there's a cross grade/upgrade discount.


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## ism (Jun 5, 2018)

very excited


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## Mornats (Jun 5, 2018)

They said way back last year that there would be an upgrade price crkmthe original solo strings. Looking forward to this


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 5, 2018)

Bets are on then:
Kontakt or Spitfire player?


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## muziksculp (Jun 5, 2018)

Looking forward to the release, which will be on Thursday !

Also curious if it will use Kontakt, or the Spitfire Player ?


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## Geocranium (Jun 5, 2018)

Have Spitfire released a new orchestral section library since Hans Zimmer Strings? I'm not the most enthused about moving away from Kontakt, as Kontakt has some pretty solid features. To be fair, I have yet to use the new player, so maybe it has all the bells and whistles that Kontakt does.


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## MaxOctane (Jun 5, 2018)

Alex Fraser said:


> Bets are on then:
> Kontakt or Spitfire player?



Spitfire Player!


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## Puzzlefactory (Jun 5, 2018)

How much?


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## Henu (Jun 5, 2018)

So...much.....reverb.


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## Ruffian Price (Jun 5, 2018)

Alex Fraser said:


> Kontakt or Spitfire player?


Why would they ever come back to Kontakt after spending considerable resources on their own platform and DRM?


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## kimarnesen (Jun 5, 2018)

Love what I'm hearing, even the fake off-pitch playing


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## madfloyd (Jun 5, 2018)

I hate the amount of reverb I'm hearing. If that's how it was recorded it's a real shame.


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## rottoy (Jun 5, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> ven the fake out off-pitch playing


 That immediately grabbed my attention as well.


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## Puzzlefactory (Jun 5, 2018)

I think it’ll be a first if there isn’t the option for close Mics only in a spitfire library...


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## kimarnesen (Jun 5, 2018)

madfloyd said:


> I hate the amount of reverb I'm hearing. If that's how it was recorded it's a real shame.



I'm sure it wasn't recorded like that.


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## CT (Jun 5, 2018)

Puzzlefactory said:


> I think it’ll be a first if there isn’t the option for close Mics only in a spitfire library...



Not only will there be no close mics, but the reverb will be extreme and un-adjustable, and the library will be marketed through an ad campaign that utilizes flashing banners, and teaser trailers for said banners, encoded with subliminal messages to convert users to the (evil) Spitfire cause.


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## D Halgren (Jun 5, 2018)

Ca


miket said:


> Not only will there be no close mics, but the reverb will be extreme and un-adjustable, and the library will be marketed through an ad campaign that utilizes flashing banners, and teaser trailers for said banners, encoded with subliminal messages to convert users to the (evil) Spitfire cause.


Careful, or this will end up in the drama zone


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## Seven7h (Jun 5, 2018)

I read but never post here. But with as much as people have been complaining about and nitpicking Spitfire stuff, I’m willing to bet they didn’t bake in that much reverb, which would limit its applicability and addressable market significantly.

Had they shipped the video with no reverb everyone would say it sounded like “harsh/shrill crap”. Had they shipped it with less reverb everyone would assume that lighter amount of reverb was definitely baked in and not good enough reverb. They just can’t win with some of you guys...

It’s obviously bathed in reverb for dramatic effect just for the video.


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Jun 5, 2018)

miket said:


> Not only will there be no close mics, but the reverb will be extreme and un-adjustable, and the library will be marketed through an ad campaign that utilizes flashing banners, and teaser trailers for said banners, encoded with subliminal messages to convert users to the (evil) Spitfire cause.



Evil charity-giving cause!!!


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 5, 2018)

miket said:


> Not only will there be no close mics, but the reverb will be extreme and un-adjustable, and the library will be marketed through an ad campaign that utilizes flashing banners, and teaser trailers for said banners, encoded with subliminal messages to convert users to the (evil) Spitfire cause.


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## rottoy (Jun 5, 2018)

miket said:


> Not only will there be no close mics, but the reverb will be extreme and un-adjustable, and the library will be marketed through an ad campaign that utilizes flashing banners, and teaser trailers for said banners, encoded with subliminal messages to convert users to the (evil) Spitfire cause.


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## CT (Jun 5, 2018)

D Halgren said:


> Ca
> 
> Careful, or this will end up in the drama zone



Hey, just a joke! It won't be my fault if it ends up there....


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## D Halgren (Jun 5, 2018)

miket said:


> Hey, just a joke! It won't be my fault if it ends up there....


Me too!


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 5, 2018)

miket said:


> Hey, just a joke! It won't be my fault if it ends up there....


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## D Halgren (Jun 5, 2018)

Alex Fraser said:


>


Guess my joke needed more cleavage...


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## Daniel James (Jun 5, 2018)

lucianogiacomozzi said:


> Evil charity-giving cause!!!





miket said:


> Not only will there be no close mics, but the reverb will be extreme and un-adjustable, and the library will be marketed through an ad campaign that utilizes flashing banners, and teaser trailers for said banners, encoded with subliminal messages to convert users to the (evil) Spitfire cause.



I get you guys are being snide for the sake of it, but if you want to have that chat, set up a new thread. Nothing good comes from openly mocking someones position, if I was to defend my stance on it the thread would goto the drama zone and you already have your minds made up about Spitfire so whats the point in trying to start the drama again.

Oh and LABS isn't for charity anymore, so their marketing worked on one guy at least (you can't critique something if its for charity. And making you think it still is, is one of the sneaky issues I have with the predatory pricing practises they are into now....but again if you want to have this out, start a new thread in drama zone)

-DJ


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## Seven7h (Jun 5, 2018)

If people care that much about making an impact for charities, buy the libraries, make great content with them, then donate some of the proceeds from that to charity directly yourself. It’s the best way to multiply impact, rather than simple self-deception stemming from feel-good consumption-based activism.

Back on topic, I’m interested to see what this library brings to the table. I’m sort of feeling like Spitfire is sure to reach a point of diminishing returns soon, if they haven’t already. What more can be done???


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## Geoff Grace (Jun 5, 2018)

Okay then, so let's get back to what we do know at this point: Violin, Viola, Cello & Bass—Coming Thursday.

Short thread, based on what we currently know. Looking forward to Thursday.

Best,

Geoff


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Jun 5, 2018)

Daniel James said:


> I get you guys are being snide for the sake of it, but if you want to have that chat, set up a new thread. Nothing good comes from openly mocking someones position, if I was to defend my stance on it the thread would goto the drama zone and you already have your minds made up about Spitfire so whats the point in trying to start the drama again.
> 
> Oh and LABS isn't for charity anymore, so their marketing worked on one guy at least (you can't critique something if its for chartiy, and making you think it still is, is one of the sneaky issues I have with the predatory pricing practises they are into now....but again if you want to have this out start a new thread in drama zone)
> 
> -DJ



I was certainly not mocking someone's position because, to be honest Daniel, I agree with them for the most part. I am very much of the opinion that it's not a binary thing - you can like part of something and dislike others. I know they aren't giving to charity anymore, hence why I made the comment - the point they give to charity is used so much to blanket defend them. I like the sounds of their libraries however.

I personally am done with Spitfire as I've said in the LABS thread before this, it's too much trouble and their marketing is obnoxious. I didn't necessarily agree with you on Hans Zimmer Strings but I agree with you on the company strategy.


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 5, 2018)

D Halgren said:


> Guess my joke needed more cleavage...


Putting aside the gifs for a second, remember that nothing triggers VI control more than a Spitfire thread. But perhaps you knew that, evil tricksters. 

Looking forward to this library anyhow. I have popcorn in stock for the accompanying threads.


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 5, 2018)

lucianogiacomozzi said:


> I know they aren't giving to charity anymore, hence why I made the comment - the point they give to charity is used so much to blanket defend them. I like the sounds of their libraries however.


Sorry - I have to jump in at this point: Whilst the labs aren't charity based anymore, the company said it was giving a certain percentage of all gross profit to charity from this point onwards. No matter what you think about Spitfire (and they 'aint perfect) it's only fair to make this clear. Not trying to cause a rumble.


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Jun 5, 2018)

Alex Fraser said:


> Sorry - I have to jump in at this point: Whilst the labs aren't charity based anymore, I think the company said it was giving a certain percentage of all gross profit to charity from this point onwards. No matter what you think about Spitfire (and they 'aint perfect) it's only fair to make this clear. No offence to anyone.



To clarify, that was to respond to DJ's LABS comment specifically.


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## Daniel James (Jun 5, 2018)

lucianogiacomozzi said:


> I was certainly not mocking someone's position because, to be honest Daniel, I agree with them for the most part. I am very much of the opinion that it's not a binary thing - you can like part of something and dislike others. I know they aren't giving to charity anymore, hence why I made the comment - the point they give to charity is used so much to blanket defend them. I like the sounds of their libraries however.
> 
> I personally am done with Spitfire as I've said in the LABS thread before this, it's too much trouble and their marketing is obnoxious. I didn't necessarily agree with you on Hans Zimmer Strings but I agree with you on the company strategy.



My mistake mate! I too agree the sound of Spitfire libs is usually top notch (if somewhat soft for my uses). Its everything around it that gets to me. BTW I am still liking HZS, using the fuck out of it on this game im doing.



Seven7h said:


> If people care that much about making an impact for charities, buy the libraries, make great content with them, then donate some of the proceeds from that to charity directly yourself. It’s the best way to multiply impact, rather than simple self-deception stemming from feel-good consumption-based activism.
> 
> Back on topic, I’m interested to see what this library brings to the table. I’m sort of feeling like Spitfire is sure to reach a point of diminishing returns soon, if they haven’t already. What more can be done???



Thats been my long standing worry for a while. They are (if judging by all the vlog updates of new huge offices and large workforce are anything to go by) spending wildly, more so than any other developer I have seen before. And they are doing so on a finite resources. How many time will someone buy a Spitfire String library. Do you get to the 21st one and think...you know what I need, more Spitfire libraries 21 isnt enough.

I am curious however to see what innovation this library brings to the table. I mean they do already have 6(ish) solo string libraries. And if this is just "MORE MICS" then, why, just why.

-DJ


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 5, 2018)

lucianogiacomozzi said:


> To clarify, that was to respond to DJ's LABS comment specifically.


Gotcha, cool.


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## Puzzlefactory (Jun 5, 2018)

Daniel James said:


> I get you guys are being snide for the sake of it, but if you want to have that chat, set up a new thread. Nothing good comes from openly mocking someones position, if I was to defend my stance on it the thread would goto the drama zone and you already have your minds made up about Spitfire so whats the point in trying to start the drama again.
> 
> Oh and LABS isn't for charity anymore, so their marketing worked on one guy at least (you can't critique something if its for charity. And making you think it still is, is one of the sneaky issues I have with the predatory pricing practises they are into now....but again if you want to have this out, start a new thread in drama zone)
> 
> -DJ



I don’t think anyone’s singling you out. 

There’s has been a general feeling of (in my opinion, unwarranted) mild animosity towards Spitfire in this forum, long before the HZ string debacle.


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## Saxer (Jun 5, 2018)

The old version of Solo Strings were very basic in function and articulation. But they still belong to the best sounding solo strings samples (my taste). The trailer doesn't betray any useful info but I'm looking forward to the release on Thursday.


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## sostenuto (Jun 5, 2018)

In retrospect … I wish strongly that SFA had extended the 'legacy' Solo Strings offer at least a week or so after release of this new one. My bad for procrastinating and missing the recent deadline ..  

Support tells me there will be NO possibility going forward.


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## Garry (Jun 5, 2018)

Daniel James said:


> Oh and LABS isn't for charity anymore, so their marketing worked on one guy at least (you can't critique something if its for charity. And making you think it still is, is one of the sneaky issues I have with the predatory pricing practises they are into now....but again if you want to have this out, start a new thread in drama zone)
> 
> -DJ



I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this Daniel, as on the face of it, I disagree entirely, but would like to hear your opinion before forming mine on it. So, I'll take you up on what I think was a good suggestion of starting a thread in the drama zone - see you there.


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## Seven7h (Jun 5, 2018)

I suggest we focus on the libraries wants and desires here. However, quick note... Spitfire should be free to run their business how they see fit, and we vote with our wallets.

The cheap Labs instruments are a smart move to get people onboard the Spitfire train. After all, you get a taste of their quality, registered on their site (removing friction from purchasing other products), and you receive promotional advertisements in email for new full size libraries for sale.

The additional charity angle was just sweetening the pot, so you can guiltlessly get on their train. The whole combination of cheap+charity causes ripple effects throughout the ecosystem, with news and knowledge of these labs products reaching much further than any normal priced libraries would have. It’s brilliant.

I see nothing wrong with it, and it’s smart marketing. As long as they continue to release quality products, then the smart marketing is not a problem for me. If marketing ever supplants substance, we have a problem and I’ll just stop buying from them. No threats or drama required.


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## CT (Jun 5, 2018)

Puzzlefactory said:


> I don’t think anyone’s singling you out.
> 
> There’s has been a general feeling of (in my opinion, unwarranted) mild animosity towards Spitfire in this forum, long before the HZ string debacle.


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## Garry (Jun 5, 2018)

Daniel James said:


> I get you guys are being snide for the sake of it, but if you want to have that chat, set up a new thread. Nothing good comes from openly mocking someones position, if I was to defend my stance on it the thread would goto the drama zone and you already have your minds made up about Spitfire so whats the point in trying to start the drama again.
> 
> Oh and LABS isn't for charity anymore, so their marketing worked on one guy at least (you can't critique something if its for charity. And making you think it still is, is one of the sneaky issues I have with the predatory pricing practises they are into now....but again if you want to have this out, start a new thread in drama zone)
> 
> -DJ



Ok - thread opened in the Drama Zone here to discuss your assertion regarding Spitfire's charity donations, as you proposed @Daniel James. Look forward to your reply there. Challenge accepted. Bring popcorn!


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 5, 2018)

I'm curious to see how they sound and function in a working setting. Any time we have people developing solo instruments it's a good thing, imo. I hope they're equally playable as they are great sounding. I would love to add solo instruments to my plate when I buy spitfire stuff in the late fall...

I get some people prefer dry libraries, people dislike their marketing campaigns and yada yada yada. But it is so often I hear high quality mockups and whaddya know? They're often using Spitfire stuff!

When I first heard Spitfire Orchestra stuff I hadn't heard orchestra libraries in a while, and I personally was really excited - because it sounded to me like a great English orchestra. 

My composition instructor, who conducted his own piece with the London Philharmonic, literally freaked right out when I showed him. Immediately wanted to buy them. I had to like talk him off the ledge and explain all the CC programming in a DAW and that you couldn't just load them into Sibelius. Hahaha!

So, haters gonna hate. Everybody else is just going to get down to the business of making music with whatever tools they choose.


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## Rob Elliott (Jun 5, 2018)

Didn't read through this whole thread but please confirm there is a 2nd Vln. Transpose trick would be lame for solo strings. Aside from the heavy verb - it is a nice sneak peek.


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## ism (Jun 5, 2018)

Daniel James said:


> I am curious however to see what innovation this library brings to the table. I mean they do already have 6(ish) solo string libraries. And if this is just "MORE MICS" then, why, just why.
> 
> -DJ




Yes this is where it get interesting. I am definitely feeling a gaping solo-strings-shaped hole in what's available for solo strings, and am very excited that this could be a real moment in the history of solo strings. 

What I do know is that innovation in solo strings in the last 18 months has been amazing. Witness Joshua Bell or the Vir Harmonic expansions. But as much as I love these instruments for certain sounds, they don't necessary work for everything. 

The JB, unfailingly brilliant though it may be, is a little too virtuosic a lot of the time. And the Bohemian cello a can be little to sweepingly emotional - which is of not a problem when you're writing in this respective styles, bu can start to grate when I'm going for something else.

Also they don't exactly blend. Or rather, they do actually can sound amazing great together - but as two solo instruments each with very distinct character. Sometime this is amazing, but it's not always what I want. 

The Alternative solo strings do blend wonderfully, and they have a sound that I absolutely love the sound in general. If only they had proper legatos, and maybe a little more variation on the vibrato (though I love the progressive legato that's baked into the samples).

CSSS - I've spent a lot of time thinking about this because they can really sound great also. But a some point, I think they just sound, I don't know, I was going to say "middle of the road", but I don't mean it disparagingly because it's a superb "middle of the road" sound ... by which I think I think I mean, if this makes any sense, a certain "studio" quality to the sound ( so they certainly do what they say on the tin - if I was writing for film I suspect this would be the safest bet at the moment). It's an amazing library for that kind of sound. But I think I've come to see it as not *quite* scratching the itch I'm looking for in solo strings.


On the other end of the spectrum you have Sacconi - which I actually think might be closer to the sound I'm looking for than anything else. But it's marketed as high classical, and there's scarcely a demo available that gives a sense of what they could do in other styles.

Then you have the old spitfire solo strings, which I'm happy to have picked up also, and wow the sound here, like the Artisan strings is unbeatable. But also quite limited - very strong emphasis on molto-vibrato, single mic legato, and the legatos themselves, are, well I'm sure they were amazing in 2011. 

And the Embertone Intimate Solo Strings. Which, for all their many merits, are very much different instrument in different spaces, and not really a ensemble. Although there's are sound that you can make with the Freidlander violin that can't be beaten with anything else, so I'm happy to have (most of) these also. 


At some point I guess I've learned to Stop Worrying and Love Buying Lots of Solo String Libraries. And frame it as a continual discovery of just have vast and magnificent the range of solo strings instruments really is. (As opposed to constant angst and disappointment that I'm *still* not quit at the sound I'm looking for yet). I mean, its a good think that that we can never be satisfied with any single violin sample library right?

And while teaser here gives us virtually nothing to for and really opinions on, I really do *love* the sound ... so here's hoping for something great!


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 5, 2018)

Rob Elliott said:


> Didn't read through this whole thread but please confirm there is a 2nd Vln. Transpose trick would be lame for solo strings. Aside from the heavy verb - it is a nice sneak peek.



That's actually a solid concern. The video was only labeled "Violin, Viola, Cello and Bass". It would be a true shame if they didn't do a second violin. 

But then they're soloists and not marketed as an ensemble. So I wouldn't be surprised to find that no, there is no second violin. :(


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## ism (Jun 5, 2018)

Also - anyone thing there's a chance we'll get Viktor Orri Árnason on violin? I notice that that spitfire retweeted once of Olafur's video (with footage of him recording in AIR) immediately before the first solo strings teaser ... probably just a coincidence. ( But I wouldn't say no to Spitfire Scandi Solo Strings if one were ever to fall into my lap ).


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## ism (Jun 5, 2018)

Rob Elliott said:


> Didn't read through this whole thread but please confirm there is a 2nd Vln. Transpose trick would be lame for solo strings. Aside from the heavy verb - it is a nice sneak peek.



Actually ... starting at ~ 11:00





... I think Paul is claiming 3 violins (including Clio Gould) .. for a "wide variety" of styles ...


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## Garry (Jun 5, 2018)

Garry said:


> Ok - thread opened in the Drama Zone here to discuss your assertion regarding Spitfire's charity donations, as you proposed @Daniel James. Look forward to your reply there. Challenge accepted. Bring popcorn!


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## Geoff Grace (Jun 5, 2018)

I know that some threads wind up in the Drama Zone, but it never occurred to me until today that it might be something to _aspire_ to.

Best,

Geoff


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## Garry (Jun 5, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> I know that some threads wind up in the Drama Zone, but it never occurred to me until today that it might be something to _aspire_ to.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


I think this was a good idea from Daniel, rather than derail an existing thread. However, it's awfully quiet down there! No reply from Daniel as yet... Does he fear to tread... into... the Drama Zone!


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 5, 2018)

ism said:


> Actually ... starting at ~ 11:00
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Zhao Shen (Jun 5, 2018)

I think Spitfire could really knock it out of the park here, but at the same time I am getting so tired of them using particularly non-challenging atmospheric pieces to showcase their instruments. Wow, pizzicatos. Imagine a solo string library being good at those. The walkthrough better be Joshua Bell levels of expressive.


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## muziksculp (Jun 5, 2018)

Zhao Shen said:


> I am getting so tired of them using particularly non-challenging atmospheric pieces to showcase their instruments. Wow, pizzicatos. Imagine a solo string library being good at those. The walkthrough better be Joshua Bell levels of expressive.



Same feeling here. Let's focus on the meat & potato sounds first, rather than the garnish stuff.


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## KEM (Jun 5, 2018)

Cautiously optimistic to see this...


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 5, 2018)

I mean... it's a teaser, so it's doing its job, which is getting everybody speculating and talking...


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## muziksculp (Jun 5, 2018)

Zhao Shen said:


> The walkthrough better be Joshua Bell levels of expressive.



JB-Violin is a good library to try to beat, or compare against. imho. It has raised the standard of Solo Violin Libraries a healthy notch upwards. Especially when it comes to playability, and timbre quality.


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## procreative (Jun 5, 2018)

The cynic in me wonders how much of a difference between Solo Strings, Sacconi Strings, Alternative Solo Strings...

There is a balancing act between groundbreaking new products vs keeping the production line going with releases to generate cashflow.

All those shiny new studios opposite the old ones that were built themselves at great expense only a few years ago (remember the YT story of the pro-audio build by an expensive looking contractor), no doubt paid in part by the "investor".

I suspect this "investor" is the landlord of the Tileyard site, but they will still want a return and like when your favourite company goes PLC, they will have to satisfy their shareholders at some point.

This means convincing us the latest release is the one that took so many years, so much expense, so many GBs of pristine 96k audio etc, etc. I am finding a lot of overlap with Spitfire releases and a lot of "redundancy".

That does not mean I hate them or think their stuff is shoddy, but do get a sense of diminishing returns on the wow factor.


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## ism (Jun 5, 2018)

procreative said:


> The cynic in me wonders how much of a difference between Solo Strings, Sacconi Strings, Alternative Solo Strings...
> 
> There is a balancing act between groundbreaking new products vs keeping the production line going with releases to generate cashflow.
> 
> ...




I can see this for a lot of types of libraries, but if there's one class of sample library that's just really been showing that great leaps forward are possible, I'd say its solo strings.


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## Garry (Jun 5, 2018)

ism said:


> I can see this for a lot of types of libraries, but if there's one class of sample library that's just really been showing that great leaps forward are possible, I'd say its solo strings.


Anyone care to submit these for the blinded violins shootout - it would answer your question perfectly!


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## Rob Elliott (Jun 5, 2018)

ism said:


> Actually ... starting at ~ 11:00
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sweet!


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## ism (Jun 5, 2018)

Garry said:


> Anyone care to submit these for the blinded violins shootout - it would answer your question perfectly!




Yes I'd love to see something similar for solo instruments ... however ...

I wouldn't use Alternate solo strings for the most of the sample lines in the above shootout, as its just not really what SASS is meant for. I would use it for a very different kind of textures, not for smooth legato leads (although the Vc and Vl have an interesting portamento).

And I probably wouldn't use the old Spitfire Solo string for most of these lines either as they're best at virtuosic molto virbrato lines with and orchestral background.

Sacconii, I don't have, and I'd actually really like to know how it would play these lines. But at the same time, the sacconi instruments are meant to be played as a quartet. 

The JB violin could play those lines easily and virtuosically - but it isn't going to have ability to blend with a quartet wth the same kind of amazing coherence you get from something like Sacconni (I think its this sense of "coherence" that I really love about Sacconni, but I'm not quite sure that fully covers what draws me to they're sound). Although the JB has a wonderful soft register that blends amazingly well wth Tundra.

All of which goes to show that, well for one thing, it's really not possible to have too many solo string libraries.

But also that while I really like the idea of something similar to that shootout thread for solo strings, the caveat is that context and style of a solo instrument are all important, and getting a meaningful comparison for solo strings is going to be even harder that for ensemble sections. But a straight comparison of classical quartet instrument vs a virtuosic solo instrument vs a soaring-lead-over-the-orchestra instrument vs a neoclassical/scandi/artisan instrument is not necessarily going to be informative in and of itself.

Still, there might be an interesting way to set up such a "shoot out". I'll maybe give this a bit of thought.



In general, I don't really see cause for cynicism that all of these string libraries are basically the same thing. I find them all wonderfully different instruments.

Exasperation and angst that there's always another one to buy - now that I do understand all too well. But not cynicism.


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## thesteelydane (Jun 5, 2018)

I expect this to be brilliant, but I hope this lib won’t be too bad for my livelihood...


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## Garry (Jun 5, 2018)

ism said:


> Yes I'd love to see something similar for solo instruments ... however ...
> 
> In general, I don't really see cause for cynicism that all of these string libraries are basically the same thing. I find them all wonderfully different instruments.
> 
> Exasperation and angst that there's always another one to buy - now that I do understand all too well. But not cynicism.


All good and valid points.

Just wanted to challenge the 'cynicism' though, and differentiate from skepticism. I'm skeptical that some of the libraries are as different as our biases would have us believe - but a skeptic like me can be immediately persuaded by data. The problem is, up to now, we haven't had such data, and in the absence of data, we all risk becoming cynical. So the shootout (of which there could conceivably be many, tailored to specific needs, as you allude to) is the antidote to cynicism.


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## ism (Jun 5, 2018)

Garry said:


> All good and valid points.
> 
> Just wanted to challenge the 'cynicism' though, and differentiate from skepticism. I'm skeptical that some of the libraries are as different as our biases would have us believe - but a skeptic like me can be immediately persuaded by data. The problem is, up to now, we haven't had such data, and in the absence of data, we all risk becoming cynical. So the shootout (of which there could conceivably be many, tailored to specific needs, as you allude to) is the antidote to cynicism.




Yes, I'm all for skepticism, especially when trying to figure out what exactly a samples instrument actually *is*, musically I mean, from a handful of demos on a developer's site.

Curious what you mean by "our biases"? Are you talking about our biases in how we evaluate marketing material, or some deeper biases that arise while actually working with instruments?

And it's a very interesting question in and of itself what a useful "shootout" for solo string would look like.


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## Garry (Jun 5, 2018)

ism said:


> Yes, I'm all for skepticism, especially when trying to figure out what exactly a samples instrument actually *is*, musically I mean, from a handful of demos on a developer's site.
> 
> Curious what you man by "our biases"? Are you talking about our biases in how we evaluate marketing material, or some deeper biases that comes from actually working with instruments?
> 
> And it's a very interesting question in and of itself what a useful "shootout" for solo string would look like.



The idea behind the double-blinded shootout is that we build up biases based on many things (for example, a non-exhaustive list: effectiveness of the developer's marketing, whether we have already bought the library or not, our predisposition to the developer, if we have other libraries from the same company, our implicit assumption of a cost/quality association, how old the library is, our own familiarity with the real instrument), such that when we compare libraries, either directly or indirectly, from different companies, the extent to which we are influenced by these factors, rather than just the true differences between libraries, remains undetermined. A blinded comparison enables us to compare the libraries with such biases eliminated. My working hypothesis is that such differences are more apparent than real. However, it is difficult to know if this is true, because we don't often have the ability to directly compare them, and even if we do, it's hard to do this blinded by ourselves. This is where the resources of the VI-C community come in. For what I think might be the first time, we now have multiple libraries, all playing the same lines, contributed by different players, subjected to randomised double-blind testing. To me at least, the 'result', in terms of the overall voted winner of the VI-C community (that part is more just a bit of fun), is less important than the output, i.e. that we will now all have multiple libraries with a direct means of comparison, to decide for ourselves (whether the community vote agrees with us or not), which we feel is the best, for our own purposes. This could provide a benchmark, by which future libraries could be compared, to see if they truly differentiate from what is already out there, and ensure that developers' claims of 'groundbreaking', 'a new paradigm shift', etc, are matched by meaningful comparative assessment.

That's basically the idea!


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## dogdad (Jun 5, 2018)

Just wanted to share my excitement for this library! Spitfire Solo Strings has a special place in my heart. I love they tone of this library (especially the Cello) and have used it much. I have been looking forward to an update and can’t wait to seee what they’ve incorporated, especially after everything Spitfire has learned from developing their other incredible libraries. Can’t wait!


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## prodigalson (Jun 6, 2018)

I think those that are expecting a level of detail and expression similar to JB Violin will be sorely disappointed. Spitfire have always prioritized tone, timbre and sonic flexibility over programming prowess. They do have some great legatos but I dont see them coming up with something as playable as the JB Violin for each of the instruments provided. That would be a monumental task and couldn’t be competitively priced. 

I for one am curious to see if they have followed the same method of programming legatos as in their recent instruments. Anyone else notice that if you play a legato interval over an 8ve you get an unpleasant foreign transition that sounds almost like a whole step grace note?.... in ALL of theirel recent libraries?

First I noticed it in Sacconi Strings and filed a support ticket. The response was that they noted it as a bug report and would look into it. 

Then I was curious and started trying other libraries including SCS and they all have this quirk whenever you try and play a legato interval of a 9th or greater. 

Clearly, it is the result of a standard approach to programming legato. So I would don’t doubt the solo strings will be the same


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## D Halgren (Jun 6, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> I think those that are expecting a level of detail and expression similar to JB Violin will be sorely disappointed. Spitfire have always prioritized tone, timbre and sonic flexibility over programming prowess. They do have some great legatos but I dont see them coming up with something as playable as the JB Violin for each of the instruments provided. That would be a monumental task and couldn’t be competitively priced.
> 
> I for one am curious to see if they have followed the same method of programming legatos as in their recent instruments. Anyone else notice that if you play a legato interval over an 8ve you get an unpleasant foreign transition that sounds almost like a whole step grace note?.... in ALL of theirel recent libraries?
> 
> ...


I can confirm this, and it has been noted before. Even in HZ Strings it's there.


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## Rob Elliott (Jun 6, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> I think those that are expecting a level of detail and expression similar to JB Violin will be sorely disappointed. Spitfire have always prioritized tone, timbre and sonic flexibility over programming prowess. They do have some great legatos but I dont see them coming up with something as playable as the JB Violin for each of the instruments provided. That would be a monumental task and couldn’t be competitively priced.
> 
> I for one am curious to see if they have followed the same method of programming legatos as in their recent instruments. Anyone else notice that if you play a legato interval over an 8ve you get an unpleasant foreign transition that sounds almost like a whole step grace note?.... in ALL of theirel recent libraries?
> 
> ...



Hoping for the level of detail had from JB. Seems to be the new standard.


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## ism (Jun 6, 2018)

Rob Elliott said:


> Hoping for the level of detail had from JB. Seems to be the new standard.



I'm not sure I need my spitfire solo strings to replicate the in-your-face solo virtuosity of the JB. While I'm certainly hoping for a great leap forward in legato playability, I'm above all hoping for something that really works in an ensemble - that amazing quality of coherence that Sacconi, for instance, manages. Obviously we'll expect spitfire's legato to have advanced since 2011, hopefully cognizant of the new bar set by the likes of JB and Bohemian Chris Heins. But the JB is sometimes too virtuosic and too out front and hard to blend except as a flagrantly virtuosic lead. And as much as I love the Emberton and Vir Harmonic approaches, and I would neither expect, nor want, spitfire to simply replicate either of these approaches. Long live so many distinct artistic and technical approaches to solo string. 

So I'm also just looking forward to seeing where spitfire has decided to go with this. Some of their best innovations lately have been completely unexpected (to myself at least). And you've got to admit that artistically, (even if you had technical niggles about, say, Bottle mics or some such of one or another of their recent libraries) they're on an amazing streak of late. One tiny example is Alternative solo strings, kind of an incidental library in the grand scheme of things, but which managed to be something quite new and wonderful without any particular focus on technical advances. Its strength was its sound, the performances, and the artistic decisions that went into as opposed to breakthroughs in legato scripting. 

Can't wait.


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 7, 2018)

Kind of curious if anybody has heard anything. In my email spitfire had indicated Thursday would be the reveal... 

Well... It's Thursday...


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## Phillip Dixon (Jun 7, 2018)

Brian Nowak said:


> Kind of curious if anybody has heard anything. In my email spitfire had indicated Thursday would be the reveal...


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## paulmatthew (Jun 7, 2018)

Brian Nowak said:


> Kind of curious if anybody has heard anything. In my email spitfire had indicated Thursday would be the reveal...
> 
> Well... It's Thursday...


nothing yet


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## Mornats (Jun 7, 2018)

Remember folks, Spitfire are British so nothing happens before tea and crumpets. Expect something after 5 and tally-ho!


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## Grégory Betton (Jun 7, 2018)

It's here: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-solo-strings/

(or see the other thread)


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## dtcomposer (Jun 7, 2018)

$189 for an upgrade path if you own the older solo strings. It's a decent discount for sure, but not enough to make it an insta-buy for me unless there is something really special about these. There are so many good to great solo string options out there now.


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## goalie composer (Jun 7, 2018)

dtcomposer said:


> $189 for an upgrade path if you own the older solo strings. It's a decent discount for sure, but not enough to make it an insta-buy for me unless there is something really special about these. There are so many good to great solo string options out there now.


Agreed. I never found much use for the original (I disliked them tonally).


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 7, 2018)

Well... the demos leave a LOT to be desired, and I'm not entirely certain the walkthrough did a great deal to persuade me either.

I would like to hear some more soloistic writing for them, even in the context of a full orchestra before I'd consider throwing $340 at them. Right now the examples and walkthrough material is pretty wishy washy.


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## Lavashak (Jun 7, 2018)

What's with Spitfire Audio not demo'ing their legato patches lately? Hmm


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## N.Caffrey (Jun 7, 2018)

Brian Nowak said:


> Well... the demos leave a LOT to be desired, and I'm not entirely certain the walkthrough did a great deal to persuade me either.
> 
> I would like to hear some more soloistic writing for them, even in the context of a full orchestra before I'd consider throwing $340 at them. Right now the examples and walkthrough material is pretty wishy washy.



I don't agree, I think the sound is great and detailed. Christian said in the other thread they're gonna keep working on it, so we can expect to see legatos in the future. I have CSSS so I don't need another one, BUT if I didn't maybe I'd consider this one, just because it blends really well with all their other libraries. In the end I use CSSS a lot to add definition to CSS, so this in a way can be used in the same way


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 7, 2018)

N.Caffrey said:


> I don't agree, I think the sound is great and detailed. Christian said in the other thread they're gonna keep working on it, so we can expect to see legatos in the future. I have CSSS so I don't need another one, BUT if I didn't maybe I'd consider this one, just because it blends really well with all their other libraries. In the end I use CSSS a lot to add definition to CSS, so this in a way can be used in the same way



I didn't say they sounded bad. I would have just liked to see more thoroughly soloistic demoing of the product.

I don't personally understand how a company can release solo strings without legato, and I'm not just trying to dog on them. I like the sounds I've heard from many of their libraries. I'm not a hater by any means. It just seems an odd choice to have solo strings without actual awesome legato - kind of takes out a big chunk of soloistic writing.


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## mobileavatar (Jun 7, 2018)

If the legatos are not near ready, what's the hurry? Yes, demos of solos and small ensembles, i.e. duet/trio/quartet/quintet are quintessential to understand how the instruments blend together, will help understand the "signature" of this library.

At this moment, the shorts sound great... but for the longs, I am not even too sure about the progressive vibrato, e.g. would there be CC to control how soon/late the vibrato kicks in? If not, how would it work with music of different tempi...

For the longs, they just sustain and end... the demos do not necessarily reveal enough how the releases feel like.


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 7, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> If the legatos are not near ready, what's the hurry? Yes, demos of solos and small ensembles, i.e. duet/trio/quartet/quintet are quintessential to understand how the instruments blend together, will help a lot to understand the "signature" of this library.
> 
> At this moment, the shorts sound great... but for the longs, I am not even too sure about the progressive vibrato, e.g. would there be CC to control how soon/late the vibrato kicks in? If not, how would it work with music of different tempi...



My sentiments exactly.

Just finish the product before you release it, for crying out loud.


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## anderslink (Jun 7, 2018)

I think it is VERY telling that they didn't demo the legato patches on the walkthrough. The legato patches probably aren't ready yet but it doesn't matter because there is no way they would do these videos without demoing them if they were groundbreaking. They focused on what they are best at - extremely nice shorts and longs in an unbeatable space. I also think they have good enough ears to realize that there isn't a single good VI that sounds as good as the real thing in regards to legato... and it doesn't even make sense to focus on it. It sucks but even Embertone's JB really can't get that close to the sound of a real player. You really have to be so careful when you play an exposed line and most of the time it still sounds too consistent and fake. Please someone show me a demo that sounds real or give me some pointers on that... I'm not saying it's totally impossible all the time just unlikely in my experience. I love JB violin but really... I think of this as Spitfire reminding us that you need to hire a musician if you want to make someone cry. Use these sounds as a palette but we're not even going to give you the tools to make a solo melodic legato performance because there is little point. It sucks but it's the reality of it and I've come to appreciate it too. In the end it is a good thing because it means we can't do without musicians. Ultimately I started buying less sample libraries as I started playing instruments I can. Lately I've felt more inclined to play an instrument that fits the piece less well but is real than use samples. I really, really need to befriend some string players.

I can already see people lashing back at me for this. I really want to hear your opinion and I'm not saying I'm right. I just really feel this way right now and I'm not thrilled about it :/


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## artomatic (Jun 7, 2018)

Since v1.0 of the Solo Strings were used in the demos, I anticipate that the legatos will be released during its launch day or soon after. I think they've learned their lesson with HZS' legato debacle.
And since I do have SCS and SSS (all recorded at Lyndhurst Hall as well), this will be a welcome addition to these collections. As a standalone, it's a yes for me, especially with the cross grade discount.


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## anderslink (Jun 7, 2018)

artomatic said:


> Since v1.0 of the Solo Strings were used in the demos, I anticipate that the legatos will be released during its launch day or soon after. I think they've learned their lesson with HZS' legato debacle.
> And since I do have SCS and SSS (all recorded at Lyndhurst Hall as well), this will be a welcome addition to these collections. As a standalone, it's a yes for me, especially with the cross grade discount.



What debacle? I didn't pay much attention to the HZS release. I have pretty much always disliked my legatos in Sacconi but as I said it's really not the reason to go with Spitfire's stuff and perhaps any sample library. I was impressed with Spitfire's solo flute legato so much that I thought it sounded real. I worked the CCs and modulation as well as I could and people with good ears can still tell very easily it's not real. I'm not a fantastic programmer but the reality of legato samples is becoming clearer to me now.


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 7, 2018)

I just kind of wonder if all these companies are behind the eight ball and are close to dead broke or something. They aren't the only ones who practice the "released before it's really done" thing. I never even received an email back when I sent OT an email about numerous bugs within Ark 3. There's even an entire instrument just... Missing. 

Legato articulations aren't even listed on the website for solo strings. Why even pre-release something that isn't finished? If they have really learned from HZ Strings it isn't yet showing. 

Not trying to be an ungrateful git, either. I seriously wonder if their marketing budget is just way out front from their survival and workhorse budget.


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## artomatic (Jun 7, 2018)

anderslink said:


> What debacle? I didn't pay much attention to the HZS release. I have pretty much always disliked my legatos in Sacconi but as I said it's really not the reason to go with Spitfire's stuff and perhaps any sample library. I was impressed with Spitfire's solo flute legato so much that I thought it sounded real. I worked the CCs and modulation as well as I could and people with good ears can still tell very easily it's not real. I'm not a fantastic programmer but the reality of legato samples is becoming clearer to me now.



When HZS was released, its legatos were very sub par. Violas were released without a legato patch, not to mention the glitches that accompanied some of the patches...


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## kimarnesen (Jun 7, 2018)

Does anyone else find the violin longs too harsh?


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## StillLife (Jun 7, 2018)

I've only read the last page of this thread, but don't some of you miss something? The library is still more than a month from release... Have a bit of faith. S


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## Michel Simons (Jun 7, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> Does anyone else find the violin longs too harsh?



The violins longs arts were probably the only ones I didn't like that much.


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## williemyers (Jun 7, 2018)

StillLife said:


> I've only read the last page of this thread, but don't some of you miss something? The library is still more than a month from release... Have a bit of faith. S


https://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfires-new-solo-strings.72205/page-4#post-4240840


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## ism (Jun 7, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> Does anyone else find the violin longs too harsh?



I think there was one that I found a bit harsh at the higher dynamics. But here are 22 violin long articulation in total, including some of the most beautiful soft articulations I've ever hear.


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## muziksculp (Jun 7, 2018)

ism said:


> I think there was one that I found a bit harsh at the higher dynamics. But here are 22 violin long articulation in total, including some of the most beautiful soft articulations I've ever hear.



Yes, and it also depends on which Mic combo is used. Lots of options to tweak them to taste.


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 7, 2018)

StillLife said:


> I've only read the last page of this thread, but don't some of you miss something? The library is still more than a month from release... Have a bit of faith. S



I think it's reasonable for people to be wary when the prerelease seems to be underdeveloped. 

It's not that the material they showed was terrible or anything. But it's just not very... well... soloist from what I've heard. 

Give me an example where the solo violin plays something that is as expressive as the solo passage from The Village, for example.

The timbre was nice, yes. But they could have just called it "Long and short notes of different types so you can make really plain and inarticulate gestures with these great tones."

There's more to soloistic writing than tone!


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## kimarnesen (Jun 7, 2018)

michelsimons said:


> The violins longs arts were probably the only ones I didn't like that much.



Me too, which makes me nervous about the tone of the legato patches.


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## MA-Simon (Jun 7, 2018)

Not really interested so far. To bad short/fast expressive repeated sustains are missing again. Probably will have to wait on performance samples to do something about that. Only legato for 3 out of 5 Instruments? If those legatos do not push this out of the water then 399 is a really steep pricetag. I mean Air, shure. But i bet most of us might prefer their solo strings dry.


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## cadenzajon (Jun 7, 2018)

I'm expecting the legatos to be fairly solid, but I'm disappointed that their list of legatos only includes the 1st desk violin and not the virtuoso violin. :-(


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## robgb (Jun 7, 2018)

I can't say I'm particularly impressed by the walkthrough. My opinion only, of course.


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## StillLife (Jun 7, 2018)

williemyers said:


> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfires-new-solo-strings.72205/page-4#post-4240840


Well, yes... It is a month from release, that's what I said. This link just confirms that. I don't understand what you're saying.


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## Musicam (Jun 7, 2018)

I prefer Sacconi


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## StillLife (Jun 7, 2018)

Brian Nowak said:


> I think it's reasonable for people to be wary when the prerelease seems to be underdeveloped.
> 
> It's not that the material they showed was terrible or anything. But it's just not very... well... soloist from what I've heard.
> 
> ...



Of course it is reasonable to be wary: we're talking about a lot of money. Underdeveloped... I don't know.

It's just... It seems that the more advanced these libraries get, the more we notice what they can't do, instead of marvel about what they can. Maybe I am too old... an example: Spitfire released two LABS instruments lately. The sound and playability of these is SO much better than what I had many years ago, when I started. And, best of all, both libs are absolutely FREE (in my early days you practically had to be a millionaire to be a collector of musical instruments, analogue or digital). Then what happens? People complain about 1) the gui, 2) the download process, 3) the Ads that notify us of this free service. I just can't get my head around that. I know times are a changin', and you can't compare today's VST-market with the musical business of the late 20th century, but I do feel a little sad sometimes when I notice that amazement of what is achieved is overshadowed by complaints about what still might be lacking.

I have too little money to buy all these libraries, but I do take my hat off for the effort these companies take to develop beautiful libraries. Of course they do it for a living - I too won't teach for free - but they chose to make a living out of capturing nuances of beauty - they could have chosen so much worse.

Maybe I got a bit carried away. I did not mean that we should never critique, obviously. Without critique nothing gets better. But I think critique is best given 1) after a product is intensively tested 2) when thorough testing shows that a product does not do what it says on the tin. That's why I always wait for thorough reviews before buying expensive libraries and that's why I asked for patience, since the product this thread is about is not even out yet, let alone the reviews.

All the best.


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## williemyers (Jun 7, 2018)

StillLife said:


> Well, yes... It is a month from release, that's what I said. This link just confirms that. I don't understand what you're saying.


apologies, StillLife! 
I misread and you are correct!


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## StillLife (Jun 7, 2018)

williemyers said:


> apologies, StillLife!
> I misread and you are correct!


No problem!


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## axb312 (Jun 7, 2018)

Walkthrough left me cringing....


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## WindcryMusic (Jun 7, 2018)

I haven't even listened to the walkthrough ... I'm just glad that the pre-order price isn't inviting enough to make me feel pushed into buying right now, especially if there are questions about legatos and such. I can afford to wait to see how this thing is received once it is finished, and then down the road consider it again (maybe in a wish list discount period this year or next year, if those continue to occur, and I hope they do).

Waiting will help me pay off that big computer that Christian's video greatly helped to sell me last month.


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 7, 2018)

StillLife said:


> Of course it is reasonable to be wary: we're talking about a lot of money. Underdeveloped... I don't know.
> 
> It's ju 7st... It seems that the more advanced these libraries get, the more we notice what they can't do, instead of marvel about what they can. Maybe I am too old... an example: Spitfire released two LABS instruments lately. The sound and playability of these is SO much better than what I had many years ago, when I started. And, best of all, both libs are absolutely FREE (in my early days you practically had to be a millionaire to be a collector of musical instruments, analogue or digital). Then what happens? People complain about 1) the gui, 2) the download process, 3) the Ads that notify us of this free service. I just can't get my head around that. I know times are a changin', and you can't compare today's VST-market with the musical business of the late 20th century, but I do feel a little sad sometimes when I notice that amazement of what is achieved is overshadowed by complaints about what still might be lacking.
> 
> ...



Sure, but as they've completely avoided soloistic writing in any examples provided in the demos and walkthrough I'm not encouraged. 

In the fall I'm buying SSC and was hoping I'd have some great solo strings to go along with it. But I tend to write soloist music for solo instruments and not just background ostinsti and languid long notes .

It's expensive to record samples, yes. And yes, samples sound better than ever before. I just hope that good sounding longs and shorts isn't where the buck stops here. 

I patiently wait for Spitfire to show me I'm totally dead wrong.


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## robgb (Jun 7, 2018)

Musicam said:


> I prefer Sacconi


I prefer Audio Modeling.


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## Ron Kords (Jun 7, 2018)

It definitely sounds great but the reason I didn't buy the original is still there - not enough control or realism in the vibrato.

It's older now and probably been outdone but the control of vib (speed and depth) on Embertone intimates strings feels like something I could never do without.

Of all my samples (not as many as most here!), Embertone solo strings using breath control is the one that blows people away. The ability to fade vibrato in or out whilst also controlling speed and depth is priceless!


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## Sid Francis (Jun 7, 2018)

michelsimons said:


> The violins longs arts were probably the only ones I didn't like that much.


and unfortunately these are the only artics that I use from a lib of solo strings...great...long waiting for...harsh..wow!
Where is beauty gone? Somewhere in the trashcan of oblivion? Sorry to spit in the spitfire cheering soup but I could not hold it back longer. Yes: they are detailed. Yes : they are deepsampled, very deep. But..where is...beauty gone?
That is my reason to make music...not detail.


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## Erick - BVA (Jun 7, 2018)

Ron Kords said:


> It definitely sounds great but the reason I didn't buy the original is still there - not enough control or realism in the vibrato.
> 
> It's older now and probably been outdone but the control of vib (speed and depth) on Embertone intimates strings feels like something I could never do without.
> 
> Of all my samples (not as many as most here!), Embertone solo strings using breath control is the one that blows people away. The ability to fade vibrato in or out whilst also controlling speed and depth is priceless!


Hmmm... I always thought the synthetic vibrato sounded fake and obvious. But perhaps I have't heard it done right. I still prefer Virharmonic's approach. I really dislike dealing with a lot of keyswitches and having to load different patches just for a change in articulation. They have 3 styles of playing in the current Behemian Violin, and you can override with keysitches if you need to. It really is the most useful solo instrument I've every played. Can't wait 'till they finally come out with more updates, and hopefully with some more "styles" of playing with their performance (soul) capturing technique.
As far as the new Spitfire Strings go, they sound rather nice to me.


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## Dear Villain (Jun 7, 2018)

anderslink said:


> I think it is VERY telling that they didn't demo the legato patches on the walkthrough. The legato patches probably aren't ready yet but it doesn't matter because there is no way they would do these videos without demoing them if they were groundbreaking. They focused on what they are best at - extremely nice shorts and longs in an unbeatable space. I also think they have good enough ears to realize that there isn't a single good VI that sounds as good as the real thing in regards to legato... and it doesn't even make sense to focus on it. It sucks but even Embertone's JB really can't get that close to the sound of a real player. You really have to be so careful when you play an exposed line and most of the time it still sounds too consistent and fake. Please someone show me a demo that sounds real or give me some pointers on that... I'm not saying it's totally impossible all the time just unlikely in my experience. I love JB violin but really... I think of this as Spitfire reminding us that you need to hire a musician if you want to make someone cry. Use these sounds as a palette but we're not even going to give you the tools to make a solo melodic legato performance because there is little point. It sucks but it's the reality of it and I've come to appreciate it too. In the end it is a good thing because it means we can't do without musicians. Ultimately I started buying less sample libraries as I started playing instruments I can. Lately I've felt more inclined to play an instrument that fits the piece less well but is real than use samples. I really, really need to befriend some string players.
> 
> I can already see people lashing back at me for this. I really want to hear your opinion and I'm not saying I'm right. I just really feel this way right now and I'm not thrilled about it :/



Not saying it's perfect, but this was the best I could get out of JB violin. As for new Spitfire library, I'm still waiting for that elusive "can do it all" library (which of course would never happen, because these developers rely on a steady stream of new releases to keep things afloat...kind of like making sure they never find a cure to the common cold).


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## anderslink (Jun 7, 2018)

Zhao Shen said:


> I think Spitfire could really knock it out of the park here, but at the same time I am getting so tired of them using particularly non-challenging atmospheric pieces to showcase their instruments. Wow, pizzicatos. Imagine a solo string library being good at those. The walkthrough better be Joshua Bell levels of expressive.



This is harsh but it totally made me laugh. I did have the same exact reaction. Pizz sound nice though


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## JEPA (Jun 7, 2018)

i am just working with a real violinist...


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jun 7, 2018)

All those longs on *solo* instruments without legato - how on earth are we suppose to use that effectively? not even an option to create a psuedo detache sound. Why do they do this with all their libraries...too much TV composing/pad writing within the spitfire group I think.

The sound is overall lovely.


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## muziksculp (Jun 7, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> All those longs on *solo* instruments without legato - how on earth are we suppose to use that effectively? not even an option to create a psuedo detache sound. Why do they do this with all their libraries...too much TV composing/pad writing within the spitfire group I think.
> 
> The sound is overall lovely.



I'm guessing they will be adding Legatos in the coming days, and weeks, before it becomes available for download. But I'm not sure about that. I can't see them skip the Legato articulations in this library, they just need more time.


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 7, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> All those longs on *solo* instruments without legato - how on earth are we suppose to use that effectively? not even an option to create a psuedo detache sound. Why do they do this with all their libraries...too much TV composing/pad writing within the spitfire group I think.



Within the articulations menu at the bottom right there are some legato articulations listed, but they are limited. What I (And others who have mentioned it) can't figure out is why they didn't showcase any of them. Like at all. Or any of the demos included any.


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## muziksculp (Jun 7, 2018)

Brian Nowak said:


> Within the articulations menu at the bottom right there are some legato articulations listed, but they are limited. What I (And others who have mentioned it) can't figure out is why they didn't showcase any of them. Like at all. Or any of the demos included any.



As I mentioned in the post above, they are most likely still working on the Legato articulations, so they are not ready yet. I Pre-Purchased this library, but it is not available for download yet, and no info. on the disc space it requires, again that is most likely because they don't know that info. yet, due the the legato samples they will need to add. So, it's still a work in progress scenario.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jun 7, 2018)

Brian Nowak said:


> Within the articulations menu at the bottom right there are some legato articulations listed, but they are limited. What I (And others who have mentioned it) can't figure out is why they didn't showcase any of them. Like at all. Or any of the demos included any.


Yeah not a good sign at all. Spitfire aren't exactly known for their amazing legatos so I am not so sure we should be expecting much here.


muziksculp said:


> I'm guessing they will be adding Legatos in the coming days, and weeks, before it becomes available for download. But I'm not sure about that. I can't see them skip the Legato articulations in this library, they just need more time.


I did notice that but I am thinking how to possibly utilize _any _of those solo longs convincingly outside of a very atmospheric pad style. It works a hell of a lot better in a section but even listening to the walkthrough, the longs sound very synthetic playing one note after the other.


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## JEPA (Jun 7, 2018)

excuse me, may i ask you, do you know that?


muziksculp said:


> they are most likely still working on the Legato articulations


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## muziksculp (Jun 7, 2018)

JEPA said:


> excuse me, may i ask you, do you know that?



No, I'm just guessing. Why would they skip Legato articulations of a Solo Strings Library ? makes no sense.


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 7, 2018)

This is my chief concern regarding the materials provided. I'm really hoping before the release somebody comes out and programs something that sounds like a real performance, rather than yada yada soft something or other nonsense.


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## ism (Jun 7, 2018)

JEPA said:


> excuse me, may i ask you, do you know that?


 
From Christian's comments on the other thread I think it's quite a reasonably assumption. And the art list does indicate 3 types of legato on Vl, Va, Vc. So there's every reason to be hopeful (or at last suspend judgement). 

Given that the library it's replacing had pretty amazing legatos (for the time - and for a certain type of line, they're still pretty amazing) it would be very odd if this didn't have a serious legato. And if it was just a perfunctory legato, why would they still be working on it? Maybe it's taking so long to get the legato right because it's going to be an especially amazing legato. Which is as reasonably an assumption as any at this point.


The marketing is confusing though. I'm really looking forward to more details.


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## mobileavatar (Jun 7, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> the longs sound very synthetic playing one note after the other.



I agree... In one demo, they were showing longs with breaks in-between, but they don't even seem to have proper releases, and that's scary.


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## mobileavatar (Jun 7, 2018)

ism said:


> the art list does indicate 3 types of legato on Vl, Va, Vc. So there's every reason to be hopeful (or at last suspend judgement).



I followed the thread and realized Christian asked his team to add/clarify the types of legatos available AFTER he read the criticism here... and that really showed how much they undermined the importance the legatos in this library.

If they did value the legatos,
1. they would have partially completed some of them and showcased how great they are.
2. they would have clarified the incompletion of the legatos right in the beginning of the walkthrough video, instead of slipping the comment in casually at the end.
3. they would have detailed the types of legatos in their first release of the webpage, instead of adding/clarifying the info after having read feedbacks from forum.

Christian kept on mentioning this would be only Solo Strings v1.0, and more will be coming. But how many spitfire libs they did with major revisions, v1.5, v2.0, etc.? (I do not know and that's why I am curious.)


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## JEPA (Jun 7, 2018)

ism said:


> or at last suspend judgement


?? i am not judging? i was asking because it seemed @muziksculp was very confident about this information.


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## ism (Jun 7, 2018)

JEPA said:


> ?? i am not judging? i was asking because it seemed @muziksculp was very confident about this information.



I really didn't mean to suggest you were, sorry if it came across that way.


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## muziksculp (Jun 7, 2018)

It would be helpful if Paul, or Christian of SA clarify the status of this library's Legatos. It really puzzles me why developers are not clear with important details like Legatos. Especially when announcing a new Solo Strings library. They should know already from their long experience that a big weight is placed on Legato functionality these days.

My guess is they are not ready yet with the legatos, hence they are not showing them. But why do we have to guess.


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## JEPA (Jun 7, 2018)

ism said:


> I really didn't mean to suggest you were, sorry if it came across that way.


don't worry, i wanted only to clarify that. I am interested in this library, but i don't know how a "1.0 release" works in Sample Libraries. I have thought a product will be delivered complete at with the first version and forthcoming bugs will be corrected in other versions. At least that's the way it works by audio plugins...


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## ism (Jun 7, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> I followed the thread and realized Christian asked his team to add/clarify the types of legatos available AFTER he read the criticism here... and that really showed how much they undermined the importance the legatos in this library.
> 
> If they did value the legatos,
> 1. they would have partially completed some of them and showcased how great they are.
> ...




Well, maybe, and maybe not. But this tends towards the most pessimistic possible assumption. But Christian did come in and say that they're being cautious (from past experience) about announcing anything until they got it completely right. And given how negative the thread started before we know anything at all, well its just that pessimism tends to cascade on the internet. My point is basically just

a) spitfire has a lot of good will in reserve from my self so I, personally, would tend towards optimism.

b) Given that the initial announcement was only made a few hours ago, I don't really see any need to make any definitive judgments on way or they other

c) In a different context, ie outside a thread wasn't from the outset framed by negativity of - flashing adds or, I forget exactly where it was coming from, happily - it might be easier perceived the uncertainty as, perhaps, a slow reveal that I might even enjoy, rather than a crisis of faith. 

d) And wow those non-legato sounds are the best non-legato sounds I've very hear from a string library. (Strictly speaking, I realize this isn't at all relevant to your argument, but I just though I'd end on an up note  ).


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## JEPA (Jun 7, 2018)

yeah very nice sound!


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## colony nofi (Jun 7, 2018)

These videos sound superb. I'm really looking forward to this library. I don't even mind the announcement of this announcement / marketing. I understand it in this day and age, even if it does tend to grate upon a number of users here. It has its use as a business tool. 
Saving pennies.


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## mobileavatar (Jun 7, 2018)

Legato types have been reduced from 3 to 2 overnight. Any thoughts?
To make up for legatos for Violin (virtuoso) perhaps? 

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-solo-strings/


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jun 7, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> Legato types have been reduced from 3 to 2 overnight. Any thoughts?
> To make up legatos for Violin (virtuoso) perhaps?
> 
> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-solo-strings/


Wow I checked it an hour ago and you're right, they just got rid of 1 legato. Must have only just happened.

That's actually bordering on false advertising for anyone who's preordered so far.


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## MaxOctane (Jun 7, 2018)




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## mobileavatar (Jun 7, 2018)

SCS 1st Violins currently has 12 types of legati:

Legato (Bowed)
Legato (CS Portamento)
Legato (CS)
Legato (Fast)
Legato (Fingered)
Legato (Flautando Portamento)
Legato (Flautando)
Legato (Portamento)
Legato (Runs)
Legato (Sul G)
Legato (Sul Pont)
Legato (Tremolo)

And how about articulatons like marcato and tremolo sul pont, etc.?
For similar libraries out there, usually it's the reverse situation, solo strings lib covers more articulation types than its chamber/orchestral equiv.

How does Spitfire expect its customers to use the lib? To use as accompaniment to SSS and SCS, like in one of their demos, with Solo Strings' pizz and staccatissimo to accompany melodies played by SSS/SCS?

Spitfire calls it "THE ALL-NEW SOLO ACCOMPANIMENT TO YOUR SYMPHONIC AND CHAMBER RANGES"


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## anderslink (Jun 7, 2018)

Take a look at the website now:

*Violin (1st Desk) - Legato*

Portamento
Fingered
*Viola - Legato*

Portamento
Fingered
*Cello - Legato*

Portamento
Fingered
I'm really curious to know what happened now. I'm sure this is going to be a TON of work and I'm hoping it will sound awesome. I love Sacconi but legato transitions in that library aren't the best. If these turn out as well as Sacconi that's still an achievement but not one worth shouting about.


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## Jediwario1 (Jun 7, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> Legato types have been reduced from 3 to 2 overnight. Any thoughts?
> To make up for legatos for Violin (virtuoso) perhaps?
> 
> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-solo-strings/



I'm curious, what was the 3rd legato type? If they had it listed online then they must of recorded it, unless it was purely a mistake on the website (which is hard to believe).


Also I noticed that on that page under mic/mixes they have a "St(ereo)" mix. I wonder if this is the usual JJ mixes (fine, medium, broad)?


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## NYC Composer (Jun 7, 2018)

Do you WANT a new solo strings library or DONT you??

“Cake.....or death?”*


*Eddie Izzard


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jun 7, 2018)

Jediwario1 said:


> I'm curious, what was the 3rd legato type? If they had it listed online then they must of recorded it, unless it was purely a mistake on the website (which is hard to believe).
> 
> 
> Also I noticed that on that page under mic/mixes they have a "St(ereo)" mix. I wonder if this is the usual JJ mixes (fine, medium, broad)?


Slurred I think? Or bow. I can't remember now.


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## mobileavatar (Jun 7, 2018)

Jediwario1 said:


> I'm curious, what was the 3rd legato type?



It was the "Legato (Bowed)". I do not mind if they cannot complete all the legato types in v1.0, but I was hoping at least they could make a COMMITMENT in matching the list of legato types existed in SCS ultimately. If Spitfire wants us to commit, should it be reciprocal?

SCS 1st Violins currently has 12 types of legati:

*Legato (Bowed)*
Legato (CS Portamento)
Legato (CS)
Legato (Fast)
*Legato (Fingered)*
Legato (Flautando Portamento)
Legato (Flautando)
*Legato (Portamento)*
Legato (Runs)
Legato (Sul G)
Legato (Sul Pont)
Legato (Tremolo)


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## ctsai89 (Jun 8, 2018)

What u guys talkin about? The legato worked just fine before the new version came out

The problem I thought the previous version had was that the dynamic cross fades phase a bit and sometimes sound like 2 players are playing at certain cc points, 

Anyone know if that's been fixed?


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## Seycara (Jun 8, 2018)

anderslink said:


> Take a look at the website now:
> 
> *Violin (1st Desk) - Legato*
> 
> ...



So now they're cutting the promised legato articulations by 1/3 across the board. Lol I'm sorry but this library is a pass for me. Seriously, why couldn't they just release the product _*after*_ they've finished producing all of the articulations?


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## mobileavatar (Jun 8, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> SCS 1st Violins currently has 12 types of legati:
> 
> Spitfire calls it "THE ALL-NEW SOLO ACCOMPANIMENT TO YOUR SYMPHONIC AND CHAMBER RANGES"



By "accompaniment", Spitfire probably intended to mean the new library "complements well" the existing SSS and SCS. Now, it seems the new lib cannot even serve as proper first chairs.

Imagine, an orchestra hired some new chairs who are not even on a par with the tutti members.
How long would it take for the conductor to fire those new chairs?


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## Puzzlefactory (Jun 8, 2018)

Sounds pretty good to me. 

I guess I don’t belong in this thread.


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## Leo (Jun 8, 2018)

I see this library as a supporter for chamber or symphonic strings, something like 1.chairs.
For this purpose sounds to me very good and useful. 
But if anyone thinks that with this "solo strings" finally realizes his first quintet, is wrong and will be crying.
Comparison to Embertone JB is also false. Reduct legatos 2 (yesterday 3 types) will bee on very basic level, like always.
What I like is violin C - progressive, really nice tone, but without legato, oh dear!
vice versa cello sounds to nervous, real player never ever make sound with instant deep vibrato (almost molto).
And last, I have 4k monitor and this type of GUI is so diminutive, why it's finally no getting bigger GUI!

p.s. I do not know whether even this I must praise, until recently I thought it was normal, thnx God they go back
to Kontakt! God bless this spitfire guys!


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## rocking.xmas.man (Jun 8, 2018)

I'm quite surprised the new solo strings is going out for 100€ less than sacconi. I' quite interested to see and hear the differences between the two - besides obviously the included instruments


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## Musicam (Jun 8, 2018)

LISTEN THE MASTER PIECE OF MR. HENSON.

LOVELY PIECE OF ART OF A GENIOUS.

Apizziture (Contextual) - Christian Henson (0:40 / 2:35)


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## JEPA (Jun 8, 2018)

Jediwario1 said:


> I'm curious, what was the 3rd legato type? If they had it listed online then they must of recorded it, unless it was purely a mistake on the website (which is hard to believe).
> 
> 
> Also I noticed that on that page under mic/mixes they have a "St(ereo)" mix. I wonder if this is the usual JJ mixes (fine, medium, broad)?


"bowed legato" must have been...


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## mobileavatar (Jun 8, 2018)

Was the original solo strings intended for smaller ensemble, or like the new one more to complement SSS and SCS?

If the old one is for smaller ensemble and the new one more is more for concerto/first chairs, why did Spitfire replace the old one? 

Wouldn't the two libraries fill different niches?

I was just listening to the demos of Sacconi Strings. Those demos sound very well-balanced in terms of tones and arts. I was actually expecting similar demos for the new Solo Strings...


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## blougui (Jun 8, 2018)

Wow !It's getting more and more Gearsluttyz in here...


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## Pablocrespo (Jun 8, 2018)

I know it is turning very pessimistic, but I think that is the result of announcing things too early. I know they have to keep the engine running and they have high costs, but maybe they could have made the announcement next week when they can answer all the questions with confidence. 

I for one would have loved legato in the virtuoso violin, I can´t understand that choice, short of budget constrain when recording? but I could be wrong.

The sound is very nice though


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## AllanH (Jun 8, 2018)

I hope Spitfire takes the time to address the change in specs after the initial announcement. For me, legato is especially important in the Virtuoso patches. This time, the pre-order discount is "only" 15% (its usually 30%, I think), so I'm going to wait until all of this has settled out.


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## Garry (Jun 8, 2018)

blougui said:


> Wow !It's getting more and more Gearsluttyz in here...


Spitfire seem to attract the perpetual complainers like flies, and anyone who takes a balanced view (likes some of their products, passes on others), is hurriedly dismissed as a fanboy or shill. I don't know why Spitfire attracts this tribalistic hate, but they really don't deserve it. It seems anything they do, people will focus on ANY flaw, real or not, and hold it in their teeth like a dog with a bone.

I've no skin in the game: I like some of Spitfire's products (I own only Albion & Tundra), and pass on others if they don't fit my needs, and will consider future products on their merits, like any reasonable customer does. But I do worry about the long-term effect of all this negativity. Christian and Paul are decent people, and they're just like you and me: when they feel that everything they do is met with criticism and negativity, then they'll eventually get discouraged, and go do something else where their efforts are more appreciated. I imagine it's only out of loyalty to their employees that they haven't done it already. That's clearly the intention for _some _of the hardcore Spitfire haters, but for others, I just wonder if you might take a step back, anticipate that as an outcome, and ask whether driving out one of the main developers from this community is in your own interests. You probably have some of their libraries and enjoy using them. If they're no longer around, because they just get sick of the negative response, is that in your own interest? That's of course not to say people shouldn't criticise, or that all criticisms are invalid, or that all those who have criticised are just haters. I'm not saying that at all (though I'll no doubt be accused of it). But there really needs to be some balance around here. Imagine working for months and months on something, excited to release it, and then pages of negativity await you. When a developer has to come on to a thread to say "any chance of some positive comments, before all our team goes and hangs themselves", you really have to recognise that that's a problem.


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## JEPA (Jun 8, 2018)

yah, salty comments are not beautiful, but critic with respect is a good thing to get better in life.

i have a question. Is it usual/normal procedure to announce/release a product for preordering, in this case a strings solo library, with a main articulation still in development prior to the release? i am asking only..

EDIT: i am asking only out of curiosity because i am interested in a near future to release my own sample library and is of interest to know how are the acceptable procedures for such a commercial behaviour toward customers. Thanks


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## PerryD (Jun 8, 2018)

JEPA said:


> "bowed legato" must have been...


 Bow legged gato?  Sorry, late session last night.


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## JEPA (Jun 8, 2018)

PerryD said:


> Bow legged gato?  Sorry, late session last night.


very nice cat! is it a wild one?


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 8, 2018)

Yeah, there are some pretty hardcore haters out there, but that is going to be the case with ANY successful company. Nothing can be done for people who set out to dislike a company, or their general philosophy on their products.

I think Spitfire is doing just fine regardless of trolls. And they don't get it as bad as some successful companies I've seen. Hell - Fractal Audio had people screaming that they were destroying music by releasing their guitar amp modeling systems. They're still making modeling systems though.

Some people are just childish.

I think certain criticisms and questions are totally valid, though. And it Spitfire is getting a lot of people asking the same questions it is worth their time to examine why that is. Many more companies have gone under because they don't answer the demands of their demographic than because of hurt feelings. I would hope they have broad enough shoulders to deal with it. 

Further, VI Control is known to have pretty critical members. I know several people who stopped coming years ago due to that perception. I'm sure Spitfire is getting plenty of praise elsewhere.


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## nas (Jun 8, 2018)

I own the original Spitfire Solo Strings. It is a great sounding library, however, as has been mentioned some of the phasing between crossfades can get very noticeable and annoying. There were also some inconstancies with the scaling of velocity layers on some of the shorts, so I hope these issues have been addressed. That being said, I found they were able to sit very well in a fairly busy mix and in the proper context and space.

One thing I would mention is that as they seem more designed to sit with the Chamber and Symphonic Strings (recorded in the same Lyndhurst Hall) it may be a little more challenging to get a closer more intimate sound - especially for sparse arrangements. Even if you pull up the close mics and drop the tree mics down a bit, you still get some of the hall slap-back... in a busy mix its not as noticeable, but in a more intimate setting it may not be desirable. I noticed this with the Symphonic Woodwinds where it was tough to dial out the larger hall sound... that's why I needed additional woodwind libraries that were recorded in a drier/smaller space.

So perhaps this library is best suited for blending with Chamber and Symphonic strings rather than in a quartet setting or a smaller space sound... for which I have Virharmonic and JB Violin (which seems almost limitless).


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## Garry (Jun 8, 2018)

Brian Nowak said:


> Yeah, there are some pretty hardcore haters out there, but that is going to be the case with ANY successful company. Nothing can be done for people who set out to dislike a company, or their general philosophy on their products.
> 
> I think Spitfire is doing just fine regardless of trolls. And they don't get it as bad as some successful companies I've seen. Hell - Fractal Audio had people screaming that they were destroying music by releasing their guitar amp modeling systems. They're still making modeling systems though.
> 
> ...


Totally agree: legitimate criticism is important and should be useful to the company.


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## mobileavatar (Jun 8, 2018)

nas said:


> One thing I would mention is that as they seem more designed to sit with the Chamber and Symphonic Strings (recorded in the same Lyndhurst Hall) it may be a little more challenging to get a closer more intimate sound - especially for sparse arrangements. Even if you pull up the close mics and drop the tree mics down a bit, you still get some of the hall slap-back...



Thanks for the detailed explanation! Coming from VSL Solo Strings, somehow I thought Spitfire "Solo Strings" is also intended for more intimate or even solo purposes. The shorts in the walk-thru sound gorgeous and have quite an "up-close" presence. Guess that's the reason for my confusion.

Maybe once Spitfire improves the longs (and legatos), the library can serve both purposes.


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## Seycara (Jun 8, 2018)

Garry said:


> Spitfire seems to be held to an inconsistent standard. Take for example the recent release of LABS: free software! I won't cite names, because the issue has been discussed with him ad nauseam elsewhere and the purpose here isn't to reopen that discussion, but just to quote it for comparison. But this one forum member criticised Spitfire for "predatory pricing" and that this could force smaller developers out of business (intentionally or not). He noted that piano and strings are precisely the area were small developers thrive, so it was a concern that these were Spitfire's first 2 free releases. He then asked us to imagine a time, not to far in the future, when there was "an Albions worst of content", and wondered who would buy from the lowly small developer then, when Spitfire has given it all away for free. One day later, Red Room Audio release their FREE orchestra, 'Palette Primary Colours' (comprising strings, brass and woodwind ensembles), and his response is:
> 
> _Nice one Dickie!
> I'm gunna download and check it out. Thanks for the free taster _
> ...



Spitfire clearly has clearly produced outstanding content in the past; there is no question.

However, I do not think that pointing out the fact legati were failed to be demoed combined with post-announcement redaction of 1/3 of all legati articulations is hating; combined with the confusing choice to announce and demo a library before details on a crucial articulation was even finalized while opening pre-orders begs the question whether these are the business practices of a company who currently cares more about quality products or generating hype and pre-order sales.

If any company did this, i.e. if, let's say, orchestral tools announced Berlin Brass and did not demo any legato for their instruments (meanwhile advertising legati in the articulations list) all the while later removing slurred legato after announcement and still releasing the product for pre-order, that would be something I would criticize as well. In fact, from what I have read, most people are criticizing these things that I just pointed out so I think these concerns are fair game.

Consider this: I know that it took less than 24 hours for Spitfire to update their articulations list but imagine I was someone who bought into the pre-order because there were three types of legati promised. Now there are suddenly only two despite the fact I was initially sold three. Would such a buyer be eligible for a refund despite Spitfire's (and most VST developer's) ironclad policy of no refunds? I'm hoping @christianhenson can answer this. If I was Spitfire, I would inform all the early bird buyers of this articulation list update and offer them a refund if necessary for full transparency, especially since early bird buyers are one's most loyal and valuable customers for all releases to come in the future.


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Jun 8, 2018)

Brian Nowak said:


> Nothing can be done for people who set out to dislike a company, or their general philosophy on their products.



I think it’s perfectly valid to have a negative view (just as much as a positive one) on a company’s philosophy regarding their products, especially when they have changed as much as Spitfire...


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## nas (Jun 8, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> Thanks for the detailed explanation! Coming from VSL Solo Strings, somehow I thought Spitfire "Solo Strings" is also intended for more intimate or even solo purposes. The shorts in the walk-thru sound gorgeous and have quite an "up-close" presence. Guess that's the reason for my confusion.
> 
> Maybe once Spitfire improves the longs (and legatos), the library can serve both purposes.



You're welcome! 

You can get a lot of variety with the different mic positions and in many cases you may find that the overall character and ambience of the library will work in a given situation, but IMHO it's probably not going to excel in the situations I mentioned earlier (smaller tighter and more intimate) as the character of the Lyndhurst Hall is so distinctive. It's very much a constant thread that runs through the SF symphonic libraries and acts as a glue for the various sections of that series. I believe in this context is where these libraries (and the space they are recorded in) truly shine.


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## Casiquire (Jun 8, 2018)

I do think that Spitfire attracts unnecessary hate, but it's only telling half the story to ignore the fact that they also attract a level of fanboy behavior that I just don't see with other developers. These two worlds combine into a volatile situation.


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## Lee Blaske (Jun 8, 2018)

Just watched the walk-through, listened to some demos, and placed my order. This library really sounds fantastic. I can imagine it blending really well with the Chamber Strings. The introductory price, along with the discount for already owning the original Spitfire Solo Strings made for a deal that was hard to pass up.


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## rottoy (Jun 8, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> I do think that Spitfire attracts unnecessary hate, but it's only telling half the story to ignore the fact that they also attract a level of fanboy behavior that I just don't see with other developers. These two worlds combine into a volatile situation.


I think the most recent rumbling backlash regarding Spitfire is linked to people feeling burned by Hans Zimmer Strings, and it's pouring over into subsequent releases.


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## Michel Simons (Jun 8, 2018)

Of course when in doubt about the merits of the library you can always wait until two weeks after its release and still be eligible for the intro price. By then there might be more videos and even reviews to make a more balanced decision. There is absolutely nothing to gain by pre-ordering. It won't be cheaper and you won't get it earlier.


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## Lee Blaske (Jun 8, 2018)

michelsimons said:


> Of course when in doubt about the merits of the library you can always wait until two weeks after its release and still be eligible for the intro price. By then there might be more videos and even reviews to make a more balanced decision. There is absolutely nothing to gain by pre-ordering. It won't be cheaper and you won't get it earlier.



True... For me, though, the sound instantly sold me. It's luscious. In the walk-through, Paul Thompson's test lining up a number of instruments and demonstrating the consistency was another big selling point. I've always thought that the Spitfire Chamber Strings were one of the most playable string libraries I own. It feels great under the fingers. I think these solo strings will have that same quality.


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## Casiquire (Jun 8, 2018)

rottoy said:


> I think the most recent rumbling backlash regarding Spitfire is linked to people feeling burned by Hans Zimmer Strings, and it's pouring over into subsequent releases.



You may be right. They're like any other dev, nobody is perfect.


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## Geoff Grace (Jun 8, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> They're like any other dev, nobody is perfect.


I buy the "nobody is perfect" part but not the "They're like any other dev" part.

Spitfire—along with Orchestral Tools—have become the driving force in orchestral library development, much like VSL and East West a decade ago. As a result, they garner both the praise and venom reserved for other successful companies like Microsoft and Apple.

Best,

Geoff


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## procreative (Jun 8, 2018)

Seycara said:


> Would such a buyer be eligible for a refund despite Spitfire's (and most VST developer's) ironclad policy of no refunds?



In the situation of a pre-launch purchase, a developer would have no right to refuse a refund as like when you purchase a software disk and don't remove the seal, you have not used the product.

The no refund situation can only apply once the product has been delivered as you have not received anything yet a refund would be possible. And if a company tells you no, then if they are within the EU they are breaking the distance selling rules and the right to a cooling off period.

Besides in a case like this you would also have an argument for the spec changing after paying for the pre-order.

Once you take egos out of the equation, companies should welcome feedback, even the bad (providing its polite and well-balanced). Much more useful than "this conversation is being recorded for quality and training purposes" and the insights and product suggestions can help understand their customers needs and improve future products.


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## muziksculp (Jun 8, 2018)

I just noticed SA posted that this library *will be* *Released July 12th*. on their website. 

Any idea if it is only the Legato articulations that are currently missing, or will they be adding other articulations as well before July 12th ?


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## Daniel James (Jun 8, 2018)

Garry said:


> Spitfire seems to be held to an inconsistent standard. Take for example the recent release of LABS: free software! I won't cite names, because the issue has been discussed with him ad nauseam elsewhere and the purpose here isn't to reopen that discussion, but just to quote it for comparison. But this one forum member criticised Spitfire for "predatory pricing" and that this could force smaller developers out of business (intentionally or not). He noted that piano and strings are precisely the area were small developers thrive, so it was a concern that these were Spitfire's first 2 free releases. He then asked us to imagine a time, not to far in the future, when there was "an Albions worth of content", and wondered who would buy from the lowly small developer then, when Spitfire has given it all away for free. One day later, Red Room Audio release their FREE orchestra, 'Palette Primary Colours' (comprising strings, brass and woodwind ensembles), and his response is:
> 
> _Nice one Dickie!
> I'm gunna download and check it out. Thanks for the free taster _
> ...



We literally set up a thread just to discuss this Garry. Why drag it into this thread?

Stop trying to derail the threads, you know full well the position I had on that.

This Solo Strings library sounds fantastic, I am telling my friends to check it out because its cool. Spitfire make awesome libraries and I use them constantly.

Stop trying to start some sort of slagging match, I love a lot of Spitfire stuff and have shared that love in literally HOURS of videos.... and I dislike other things. The things I dislike, and I talk about, are my opinions on where I would want to see the company go and expressing my caution if it gets close to the line of hurting smaller devs while on its rapid assent to the top of our industry.

I don't hate Spitfire, stop trying to imply that because I question parts of how they operate, that I somehow want to see them destroyed or something. I want them to thrive and innovate as they have done for years. I just also don't want smaller devs to get caught in the rocket fuel as Spitfire's success rocket takes off.

I really want this place to bring back the love. I am aware I am part of that problem ever since HZS but I will do what I can to start talking louder about what I like rather than the bits I don't. Hopefully we can all stop trying to drag everyone into a camp and start a war.

Much love 

-DJ


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## The Darris (Jun 8, 2018)




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## Geoff Grace (Jun 8, 2018)

Daniel James said:


> I really want this place to bring back the love. I am aware I am part of that problem ever since HZS but I will do what I can to start talking louder about what I like rather than the bits I don't. Hopefully we can all stop trying to drag everyone into a camp and start a war.
> 
> Much love
> 
> -DJ


Hear, hear. I second this motion.

Best,

Geoff


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## Casiquire (Jun 9, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> I buy the "nobody is perfect" part but not the "They're like any other dev" part.
> 
> Spitfire—along with Orchestral Tools—have become the driving force in orchestral library development, much like VSL and East West a decade ago. As a result, they garner both the praise and venom reserved for other successful companies like Microsoft and Apple.
> 
> ...



Those two examples are a perfect demonstration of what I'm saying. They're just like EW and VSL. A crowd of people is thoroughly invested in their offerings, they've made some incredible moves, but they've made some missteps as well, so we're seeing that clash.


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## desert (Jun 9, 2018)

Too many SA fanboys in VI-C that will sing praises of every new product they launch but never actually buy it. So many replying in this topic, too.

If SA doesn't like negative feedback from a forum (a place where mixed opinions are allowed), then maybe they should advertise somewhere else.


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## Seven7h (Jun 9, 2018)

desert said:


> Too many SA fanboys in VI-C that will sing praises of every new product they launch but never actually buy it. So many replying in this topic, too.
> 
> If SA doesn't like negative feedback from a forum (a place where mixed opinions are allowed), then maybe they should advertise somewhere else.



“Your brain doesn’t like what my brain likes. You must be a fanboy.”


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## Puzzlefactory (Jun 9, 2018)

Shouldn’t that be...

“Your brain likes what my brain doesn’t...”?


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 9, 2018)

lucianogiacomozzi said:


> I think it’s perfectly valid to have a negative view (just as much as a positive one) on a company’s philosophy regarding their products, especially when they have changed as much as Spitfire...



Sure. What I was specifically referring to was people who don't like wet samples, so they infer that the sample quality must be terrible because there is so much ambience in the microphones. Or they don't like the timbre of an instrument. There's no reason to even debate with somebody that holds those views because you'll never come to an understanding.

I haven't been following Spitfire for an incredible amount of time but I have heard people reference that they aren't as great as they used to be. This is often just a generalization and I never hear specific instances that elicits this view.

I wonder if it's that when they first started, people were impressed by how they sounded with great hall sampling and whatnot. And that over time, they kept doing their thing and people expected them to progress and be more innovative, whereas they've seemingly focused on capturing really nice timbre of instruments in a really great space. I literally don't know because I only became aware of them in 2017.

I personally think these strings SOUND amazing. I was only struck by the seeming lack of what my mind imagines when I think "soloistic" material for strings in the examples provided. I remain hopeful we'll hear some more virtuosic or at least complex phrased lines in coming videos.


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## Seycara (Jun 9, 2018)

In my opinion right now Spitfire Solo Strings' biggest rival is the OT first chairs; very similar articulations, very similar wetness, very similar quality of production. With the v2 update on OT's first chairs, it will be interesting to see what new offerings Spitfire will provide in comparison.


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## RiffWraith (Jun 9, 2018)

Daniel James said:


> Hopefully we can all stop trying to drag everyone into a camp and start a war.



Heh. You are asking some people to go against their very nature.


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## fretti (Jun 9, 2018)

Seycara said:


> In my opinion right now Spitfire Solo Strings' biggest rival is the OT first chairs; very similar articulations, very similar wetness, very similar quality of production


Wich is exactly why I‘ll sit this one out...


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## Seven7h (Jun 9, 2018)

Puzzlefactory said:


> Shouldn’t that be...
> 
> “Your brain likes what my brain doesn’t...”?



Same thing. I was just highlighting it all stems from people’s inability to reconcile the fact that they can’t control other people’s decisions with their ideal reality. I prefer to hear *why* people like or dislike things because I’m humble enough to recognize I might be missing something.

I’m not denying that fanboys exist... people who are unwilling to think critically and be intellectually honest about a product or brand. But there are not as many as people claim. It’s just that it’s become a bit of a kneejerk go-to insult that only kicks off the downward spiral.

There are also genuinely gullible people who get taken in by over-the-top substanceless marketing. So just strive to always be neutral and rational and you’ll never come up short.

The ironic thing is that both fanboys and fanboy-accusers tend to suffer from the same irrationality...

Thanks, but I’d rather sit in the middle than declare loyalty to one side.


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## sostenuto (Jun 9, 2018)

fretti said:


> Wich is exactly why I‘ll sit this one out...



Have BO-Inspire and came so close to Berlin FC at Intro Promo. 
Have been very cautious starting down OT path, but now looking again.


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## Ron Kords (Jun 10, 2018)

Sibelius19 said:


> Hmmm... I always thought the synthetic vibrato sounded fake and obvious. But perhaps I have't heard it done right. I still prefer Virharmonic's approach. I really dislike dealing with a lot of keyswitches and having to load different patches just for a change in articulation. They have 3 styles of playing in the current Behemian Violin, and you can override with keysitches if you need to. It really is the most useful solo instrument I've every played. Can't wait 'till they finally come out with more updates, and hopefully with some more "styles" of playing with their performance (soul) capturing technique.
> As far as the new Spitfire Strings go, they sound rather nice to me.


Must be honest, I didn’t know it was faked  So ashamed...

I’m a keys and sax player. To a fiddle player I expect it’s really obvious so i probs look a bit of an idiot on this 

If the function in Emb’ strings could be offered through real samples it would be awesome...

I’m a complete Spitfire fanboy (with good reason I think). The sound is awesome and unquestionable. The top spot for malleability/faking live playing is up for grabs though.

Vib is that tricky third finger on a faderport and gets overlooked a little. For me, there’s so much realism to be had there...


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## Fab (Jun 10, 2018)

Seycara said:


> In my opinion right now Spitfire Solo Strings' biggest rival is the OT first chairs; very similar articulations, very similar wetness, very similar quality of production. With the v2 update on OT's first chairs, it will be interesting to see what new offerings Spitfire will provide in comparison.



hopefully superior scripting


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## Ron Kords (Jun 10, 2018)

Daniel James said:


> We literally set up a thread just to discuss this Garry. Why drag it into this thread?
> 
> Stop trying to derail the threads, you know full well the position I had on that.
> 
> ...


I’m with DJ.

‘Bring back the love’


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## jamwerks (Jun 10, 2018)

Seycara said:


> In my opinion right now Spitfire Solo Strings' biggest rival is the OT first chairs; very similar articulations, very similar wetness, very similar quality of production. With the v2 update on OT's first chairs, it will be interesting to see what new offerings Spitfire will provide in comparison.


Yeah, BST 1st chairs is great (bought it last month on sale). Since I frequently use SCS & SSS, it's really worth also having SsS imo; same interface, same arts, chopped and programmed by the same folks, same hall, etc. Should be able to copy and paste midi, cc's and expression maps from SCS parts directly. What an awesome time saver!


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## mobileavatar (Jun 11, 2018)

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-solo-strings/

From the session photos, are we able to tell whether there were enough mics set up for a "Solo Strings Professional" edition?


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## Jediwario1 (Jun 11, 2018)

Seycara said:


> So now they're cutting the promised legato articulations by 1/3 across the board. Lol I'm sorry but this library is a pass for me. Seriously, why couldn't they just release the product _*after*_ they've finished producing all of the articulations?



They have updated the articulations list AGAIN. This time the 3rd legato type (Bowed) has been added back in.


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## Jediwario1 (Jun 11, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> From the session photos, are we able to tell whether there were enough mics set up for a "Solo Strings Professional" edition?



Since they're including the stereo mix in this version I would assume not.


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## Seycara (Jun 11, 2018)

Jediwario1 said:


> They have updated the articulations list AGAIN. This time the 3rd legato type (Bowed) has been added back in.



Good, now it's time to hear them in a play thru.


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## procreative (Jun 11, 2018)

What I find frustrating about all the Spitfire solo instrument walkthroughs is that they always play them chorally like an ensemble a lot of the time, kind of daft. I want to hear solo lines played by a solo instrument.

My opinion (and this is not just Spitfire), why do Devs release solo strings libraries and only offer Legato with the main Arco? Its a solo string instrument, so if it plays Con Sordino, Sul Tasto, Tremolo, Flautando or any other long articulation it should have legato connections as an option, just like a real violinist.

Sable had this for a lot of articulations (as does its update SCS).

At least Berlin First Chairs can have Legato added in Capsule.

I know it would cost more to record, but then I would have traded 3 violins for 1 violinist and would have recorded two levels of Vibrato and one progressive vibrato - if I were designing the spec.

From the spec, this should be called First Chairs anyway as its not in-depth enough to be a fully featured Solo library. Obviously none of this would be achievable at this price.

I just personally am not sure what this adds that is not already achievable with Sacconi (albeit without the "Air" air).


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## mobileavatar (Jun 11, 2018)

Jediwario1 said:


> Since they're including the stereo mix in this version I would assume not.



Right, but I am wondering whether they would add an expansion pack later on... or rebrand the current version "professional" to include additional mic positions.


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## jamwerks (Jun 11, 2018)

There will probably be several expansion packs!


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## Seycara (Jun 11, 2018)

procreative said:


> What I find frustrating about all the Spitfire solo instrument walkthroughs is that they always play them chorally like an ensemble a lot of the time, kind of daft. I want to hear solo lines played by a solo instrument.
> 
> My opinion (and this is not just Spitfire), why do Devs release solo strings libraries and only offer Legato with the main Arco? Its a solo string instrument, so if it plays Con Sordino, Sul Tasto, Tremolo, Flautando or any other long articulation it should have legato connections as an option, just like a real violinist.
> 
> ...



This is true. However, if the legatos we hear here are, let's say, even better than CSSS, then that's a winner for sure. Otherwise, I won't have too much reason to buy.


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## TintoL (Jun 11, 2018)

I have been waiting for this library for a long, long time.... I came to the forum to check what was people saying about the library. And then, I found out about what has happened to the HZS. I have been maintaining myself away from the forum because lately I've found that checking the forum now is like an alcoholic going into a
liqueur store. And end up expending a lot of money on libraries I frankly don't need. Nevertheless, this is a very, very expected library. And, to be honest, the demos I heard were really weak. Very washy, with no solo melody lines, no counterpoint, and no dynamic changes except for a bunch of sustain articulations. How does we suppose to judge a solo library with such audio samples? And I also agree, like someone said here, that the walk through does not help by playing chords with what suppose to be a solo library. They are pre-selling a solo library without showing a single legato line. That's a bit too much to ask. I hope that when that legato walk through comes it really delivers.... If not.... I could say they are playing with fire.


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## jamwerks (Jun 11, 2018)

TintoL said:


> ...They are pre-selling a solo library without showing a single legato line. That's a bit too much to ask...


The legato isn't ready yet. Of course they're showing what they have.


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## The Darris (Jun 11, 2018)

Initial thoughts? Articulations sound great and certainly have the character and tone that would fit perfectly with Chamber Strings. I love the grit in the spiccato samples, lots of intensity behind them. 

I have to piggy back off of some of the sentiments here though. I've owned the original Solo Strings since it was one of the only libraries they had available. It was certainly ground-breaking at the time and after years of waiting for it to be fixed or this predecessor to be released, the walk-through videos and demos don't really show it in the best context (I can only assume there is more to come). I don't for one second think this library can't write more complex and interesting solo, lyrical, and fast virtuoso music though. In fact, you can hear the potential in the samples themselves. I really like that. Knowing Spitfire's style for how they create string libraries, I'm sure this will be pretty easy to get under my finger tips and help create cool and interesting solo parts. 

Personally, the Legato list is weak, especially compared to Chamber Strings. The only way I can think of them adding more to the list is if users, of the library, actually give that feedback so be sure to do so if you buy this library and want more. I would hope they are considering a fast legato or runs legato because I honestly haven't found a library by another developer that beats their Runs legato from Chamber Strings, except libraries with recorded runs/phrases. 

Congrats on the new Solo Strings library Spitfire, I'm hoping the wait is worth it. I'm glad to see so many articulations in this and the inclusion of the additional Violin soloing styles. 

Cheers,

Chris


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## procreative (Jun 12, 2018)

Anyone buying this must do so with the caveat that on release the articulation list might not change. While improvements may come, its a dangerous game to buy a library assuming or hoping the things you would like to see in it are added.

I just felt rather underwhelmed by the walkthrough, playing Sustain arts in a Legato way exposed the lack of joined up transitions and the releases seemed to cut off immediately a note stopped playing.

I know Spitfire can do better, they did with Sable, still my favourite of theirs and one of the most detailed sounding string libraries I have, the vibrato is beautiful. But this feels oddly conceived (in my opinion).

If you need to layer into an Orchestra either as First Chairs or Soloistic bursts there are better alternatives as it stands. Being in Air is not the be all as you don't really want the solo overlays to disappear into the same space really.


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## MaxOctane (Jun 12, 2018)

procreative said:


> Anyone buying this must do so with the caveat that on release the articulation list might not change. While improvements may come, its a dangerous game to buy a library assuming or hoping the things you would like to see in it are added.



This. I own a ton of spitfire libs and would be hardpressed to name more than one or two major improvements after purchase. Phobos added resizeable UI and better preset management. ...that’s about all I can think of.

The new Chamber mics were nice, but a paid upgrade.


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## mobileavatar (Jun 12, 2018)

MaxOctane said:


> This. I own a ton of spitfire libs and would be hardpressed to name more than one or two major improvements after purchase. Phobos added resizeable UI and better preset management. ...that’s about all I can think of.
> 
> The new Chamber mics were nice, but a paid upgrade.



I am not yet a spitfire lib owner, but very much would like to be one if SsS turns out to be what its title suggests - a solo library (not just a first-chair or quasi-orchestral soloist one).

Christian kept on saying the current SsS spec is only 1.0, but I have been wondering how many past Spitfire libs had upgrades/improvements?

No doubt SCS has a very comprehensive arts list, as an accumulation of multiple Sable libs. Pre-selling SsS in the midst of the development is totally understandable, but I hope eventually SsS arts list could match that of SCS, and apart from the pre-scale, Spitfire could share a little more info on the roadmap. Roadmap is a big deal because it affects my judge in terms of investment and practical use of the lib. Take sul pont trem as an example, if it will be a free upgrade that will happen reasonably soon, e.g. within 3 months, surely I would not mind taking the risk to be an early-adopter. But if it is only planned for expansion pack 6, then most likely I will wait or look elsewhere.

Right now, the deciphering is the part that frustrates me the most, i.e. the legato spec change, the chordal walk-thru. I do not want to play the detective game. I just want to enjoy the lib.


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## Hat_Tricky (Jun 12, 2018)

Dont know if i should cash in on my discount for Cinmetic Studio Solo Strings or get this. I eventually want to get SCS as well, and it would be nice to have the matching pairs (SCS + SsS, and CSS +CSsS)

But I might only be able to afford one - and I already own CSS...


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## rocking.xmas.man (Jun 13, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> Christian kept on saying the current SsS spec is only 1.0, but I have been wondering how many past Spitfire libs had upgrades/improvements?


well first of all there is albion legacy which got the mid brass section - additional recorded content - some months after release and several GUI updates. the old solo strings library first came with considerably less articulations for the viola which were then added in a later update. Albion 2 got extended Ranges for the legato instruments as well as attack-shaping based on velocity with the first update. Percussion got patches simulating soft mallet bass drums after albion 2 came out.
I think that clearly states that the really important libraries (tentpoles?) of course are getting quite a lot of attention when it comes to improvements.


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## mobileavatar (Jun 13, 2018)

rocking.xmas.man said:


> I think that clearly states that the really important libraries (tentpoles?) of course are getting quite a lot of attention when it comes to improvements.



That's very encouraging info!!


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## jamwerks (Jun 13, 2018)

Free updates with added arts might be asking too much (imo) but I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually matched the extensive (25 arts circa) SCS list.


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## desert (Jun 13, 2018)

Yes, I was a little bit suspicious as to why Paul was releasing each note before he pressed the next ...


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## Vik (Jun 13, 2018)

Hat_Tricky said:


> Dont know if i should cash in on my discount for Cinmetic Studio Solo Strings or get this. I eventually want to get SCS as well, and it would be nice to have the matching pairs (SCS + SsS, and CSS +CSsS)
> 
> But I might only be able to afford one - and I already own CSS...


Who knows, maybe SCS2 would be an even better compliment to CSS than CSSS. Personally, I'd like to have both, to layer with various ensemble presets.


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## Saxer (Jun 13, 2018)

Does a solo instrument need different legato speeds (except portamento)? For a section it's the sound of multiple instruments not being exactly together for the small transition period. This transition can be different at different speeds. But a solo instrument? It just changes the note. Finger here, finger there. Isn't that the same at any speed?


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## mobileavatar (Jun 13, 2018)

jamwerks said:


> Free updates with added arts might be asking too much (imo) but I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually matched the extensive (25 arts circa) SCS list.



If it's as extensive as SCS, (paid) additional libs or expansion packs are reasonable way to go, but if Spitfire could share ahead of time how many of those will be needed to cover the list, at least we could budget ourselves better. Whether it will be 399 euro/usd *3, *4, or *5, certainly it's something I would like to know before getting my feet wet. I understand it's hard to be specific but Spitfire must have done some planning so they should have some vague ideas...


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## jamwerks (Jun 13, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> If it's as extensive as SCS, (paid) additional libs or expansion packs are reasonable way to go, but if Spitfire could share ahead of time how many of those will be needed to cover the list, at least we could budget ourselves better. Whether it will be 399 euro/usd *3, *4, or *5, certainly it's something I would like to know before getting my feet wet. I understand it's hard to be specific but Spitfire must have done some planning so they should have some vague ideas...


I agree with you there. I too would like to know. But I know also that it's not always in the devs best interest (for a miriad of reasons) for them to show all their cards...


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## col (Jun 13, 2018)

" Contextually " they sound great.


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## Musicam (Jun 13, 2018)

I cannot wait for the walktrough of Mr Henson and his Appizziture master piece! I love it!


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## procreative (Jun 13, 2018)

rocking.xmas.man said:


> well first of all there is albion legacy which got the mid brass section - additional recorded content - some months after release and several GUI updates. the old solo strings library first came with considerably less articulations for the viola which were then added in a later update. Albion 2 got extended Ranges for the legato instruments as well as attack-shaping based on velocity with the first update. Percussion got patches simulating soft mallet bass drums after albion 2 came out.
> I think that clearly states that the really important libraries (tentpoles?) of course are getting quite a lot of attention when it comes to improvements.



However, these were all early libraries. Although they still issue fixes, extra content is not so forthcoming.

An example: Percussion was re-issued with the excellent Kickstarter interface that allowed you to customise kits of drums with things like mapping, which sounds were purged etc.

Hans Zimmer Percussion (which by the way I rarely used initially as I found the split patches a bit of a passion killer and the Keyswitch patches were totally nonsensical as you could only switch between drums making simultaneous use impossible). 

This was updated to Kickstarter, however to end up with the same stack of sample content youy had to buy Core and Pro updates. Granted they threw in the Solo version. They did the same with Sable to SCS.

Nobody forced me to update (which I did with HZ but only Core, not with Sable as most of the update was cosmetic). But it signified a change of philosophy.

So my point is, these days they tend to throw in less "free" extra content after release. I doubt they would go back for instance and add Legato to the Virtuoso violin unless they already recorded it (which of the 3 violins almost needs it the most).

I don't want to come across as some kind of Spitfire hater as that is absolutely not the case (my bank balance can testify to that). But with so many choices out there for every section of the orchestra, knowing what each one can do, what its likely to be after release etc is a dangerous guessing game unless you can afford to "take a punt".


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## Musicam (Jun 13, 2018)

Albion 2 and 3 needs a remake. Specially Albion 2. But for Solos strings is perfect to first chairs for Symphonic and Chamber Strings


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## Pablocrespo (Jun 13, 2018)

I think that’s the question. Is this a “soloistic” library or a first chair library, I would like to know if legato is planned for the virtuoso violin, and if the legato patches will have vibrato control or will be fixed. 

I know they are playing their cards closely to the chest and that’s ok, but in the following days we could use the answers to those questions to plan our investment better.


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## Vik (Jun 13, 2018)

They should IMO announce what people should get with the first release and the essential stiff that will come in free releases not long after that release (if these are basic functions which is ideally should have been there in vol 1.). 

I'm certainly not a SF "hater" either, but my story was Mural was kind of special. M1 was released in jan 2014 (please correct me about these dates if I'm wrong, anyone!), was expensive, and lacking a lot. 
M2 came in May the same year with more legato styles etc, and M3 a while after that, in 2015 IIRR. But it wasn't until the release of Spitfire Symphonic strings, a paid new product based on Mural with discount for Mural owners, that some of the stuff I had hoped to see get in early Mural versions was implemented in a decent way.

All this ended up quite expensive for me, but I'm somehow glad I starting on that route - because it led be to update to a SSS/SCS (+ Evolutions) bundle later. So I'm just mentioning this as a reminder that it's a very good idea to wait with buying something until you know what comes with the package you're buying - when you buy it. 

And as we know this isn't only something that has happened for SF customers.


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Jun 13, 2018)

The problem I have with certain libraries and even video games is now you can release something almost instantly and don’t have to pay to print discs, companies tend to release incomplete products and then release fixes and additional things they promised later.

It’s a good thing when it comes to adding new content but not great when they keep changing the versions and you have to upgrade to get the latest stuff. I feel like products used to be more polished and included everything before when you brought them.

Personally, I feel like when I purchased the BML Horns for example, that I just wanted the horns, I didn’t want anything else because I don’t need it but the updates for it are for SSB...


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 13, 2018)

Pablocrespo said:


> I think that’s the question. Is this a “soloistic” library or a first chair library, I would like to know if legato is planned for the virtuoso violin, and if the legato patches will have vibrato control or will be fixed.
> 
> I know they are playing their cards closely to the chest and that’s ok, but in the following days we could use the answers to those questions to plan our investment better.



The thing I don't get is this: Spitfire has said these are supposed to fit in nicely with SSS and CS. So I'm thinking first chairs and first chairs often take solo parts. Maybe not some crazy-ass concerto part, but still. And SSS and CS are also capable of making some really nice lines with many different accents from the countless things I've heard - both originals and mockups. Heck listen to the demos of both on their pages. Fair amount of variety. So I went into it expecting to hear, ya know.... first chair type stuff.

Instead, so far, I've heard really nice tone from the instruments. I will not argue that they don't sound awesome. Very clearly the case. But everything that was written in the demos is pretty borderline generic film-esque stuff. Moderately vague ideas. Generally playing one type of articulation for extended periods of time. The unnoticeable type stuff that's kind of difficult to make sound bad if the samples are recorded well. In the one case of the demos where there are more distinct melodies, it's not even the solo strings providing them. So now I'm a bit weirded out because I just wouldn't think "Ok lets call these solo strings. We'll name one of them virtuoso. And THEN... let's not use them in that way like AT ALL."

So I just want to know if these will work for anybody that's going to write for them like a composer making anything other than ONLY filmy stuff. And I look forward to examples they or early buyers make where it's literally anything other than the examples provided here. I'm not being snarky. I just want to know.


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## Batrawi (Jun 13, 2018)

Saxer said:


> Does a solo instrument need different legato speeds (except portamento)?


I thought it didn't until I got my hands on CSSS, and now I actually can't go back to a solo string instrument that has no medium and slow legato speeds..just throw these between strings quartet chords and you won't believe how much realism and emotion you were missing.

Btw, does the new Spitfire solo strings have different speeds? if so then am in love already


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## madfloyd (Jun 14, 2018)

Batrawi said:


> I thought it didn't until I got my hands on CSSS, and now I actually can't go back to a solo string instrument that has no medium and slow legato speeds..just throw these between strings quartet chords and you won't believe how much realism and emotion you were missing.
> 
> Btw, does the new Spitfire solo strings have different speeds? if so then am in love already



What's a slow legato (e.g. vs a medium)? Are you referring to vibrato speed?


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## MaxOctane (Jun 14, 2018)

Batrawi said:


> I thought it didn't until I got my hands on CSSS, and now I actually can't go back to a solo string instrument that has no medium and slow legato speeds..just throw these between strings quartet chords and you won't believe how much realism and emotion you were missing.
> 
> Btw, does the new Spitfire solo strings have different speeds? if so then am in love already



Can you post some CSSS demos? I feel like I own a different product from the one people talk about here. I find the longs (especially the vibrato) unusable. This is for string quartets, though -- maybe it's much better within full orchestra.


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## Batrawi (Jun 14, 2018)

MaxOctane said:


> Can you post some CSSS demos? I feel like I own a different product from the one people talk about here. I find the longs (especially the vibrato) unusable. This is for string quartets, though -- maybe it's much better within full orchestra.


I think the official YT demos already shows the product at its best. Yet you can find an example I shared here....just ignore my sluggish performance pls

https://vi-control.net/community/th...e-kronos-quartet-in-the-fountain.70566/page-2


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## Pablocrespo (Jul 7, 2018)

So, five days to go if I´m not mistaken, is there any new info about legato, etc?


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## ism (Jul 7, 2018)

We go a little bit of a teaser of the legatos in Oliver's in action video. Only a few notes, but they really did sound great. Can't wait to hear more.


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## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2018)

Looking forward to Thursday, July 12th.


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## TonalDynamics (Dec 5, 2021)

After using this library extensively, I'd like to post my own review.

First off they do sound nice, the legato is pretty good, and the portamento and re-bow with velocity options are nice as well, but curiously a few of the instruments don't have a 'tightness' or legato speed control, while some of them do... this makes the 1st Desk violin for example unsuitable for runs or quick arpeggios (the virtuoso does quite well with this).

But if you are looking for a close/intimate sounding solo string library, this is probably not for you. The close mics (as they generally are on Spitfire products) are actually quite distant (I'd guess between 5-7 meters away), which is understandable for section and orchestra recording - but this is quite baffling for a solo strings library, where detail and clarity take precedence over wet ambient mics (attend any soundstage recording of a cellist/violinist performing a solo during tracking for a big production, and you will see just how close the mics get to the instrument).

Oddly enough, the close mic seems to be a mono recording - with a _single_ microphone, if I had to guess. Or if its not a single mic, it's at least from a single position, summed to mono and placed L in the stereo field, as opposed to a close 'mix', with enough stereo-width to bring it forward in the mix.

So not only is it distant, but sounds monophonic as well (the last thing you want from an up-front, solo instrument)

Somehow this failure to get the close-mics 'right' has a severe impact on the effectiveness of this library: The decca tree mic mix sounds great just as with all their other libraries, but the lack of proximity from the 'close' mics means that you can never put the instruments up front in the mix... it limits how 'intimate' they can get in a major way.

Spitfire recorded these solo instruments the same way they record their massive sections, which is a shame because there are some truly beautiful performances in here. They just sound like the player is doing their solo in a hall, instead of in front of the whole orchestra, right in front of you from the first row.


Also why Spitfire doesn't just bake the legato patches into their libraries instead of forcing us to use separate patches is a bit mystifying - there's no sensible reason why an additional 'master patch' can't be offered which includes legato without switching instruments constantly during tracking.

My Babylonwaves Art Conducter sound variation templates get around this by using UACC keyswitch lock, and having both the 'core techniques' and legato patch open at the same time, and allows to switch to legato that way with an actual keyswitch instead of having to take hands off keys, grab mouse, make sure nothing else is solo/muted, solo the legato patch, put hands back on keys... and repeat several dozen times during the course of recording a violin part.

But this ought not to be necessary... just add the legato articulation into the main patch as a 'combined' master patch instead of making us use separate instruments!

Hopefully someone finds this useful.

Cheers!


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## jbuhler (Dec 5, 2021)

TonalDynamics said:


> After using this library extensively, I'd like to post my own review.
> 
> First off they do sound nice, the legato is pretty good, and the portamento and re-bow with velocity options are nice as well, but curiously a few of the instruments don't have a 'tightness' or legato speed control, while some of them do... this makes the 1st Desk violin for example unsuitable for runs or quick arpeggios (the virtuoso does quite well with this).
> 
> ...


I’m quite fond of the first desk player, and it’s my favorite solo violin—and I have a lot of them. I think it works well in a quartet for certain kinds of material, and my basic quartet is the first desk instrument as violin 1, the progressive violin and AltSS violin together for second violin (not at the same time obviously), and then the SF solo strings viola and cello rounding it out. 

But where the first desk violin solo really shines is as a section soloist in the orchestra, a concertmaster solo. It emerges so beautifully from the section and is positioned just right for that effect. The close mic works best in conjunction with the tree. It’s best to think of it as bringing detail to the tree rather than as a mic that will be doing the bulk of the work. 

I agree with you about the legato patch and having a basic legato patch in the main instrument. I also think it’s worth mentioning the vibrato which is on/off. It can be startling and abrupt when you first start using the instrument but in context it works better than it has any right to. The first desk is not a virtuosic instrument but I find it can negotiate runs and arpeggios at moderate tempos reasonably well. Its tone in its second octave is not as nice as the rest of the instrument. Its tone can get a bit whiney. That would be my main complaint.


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## rocking.xmas.man (Dec 6, 2021)

TonalDynamics said:


> So not only is it distant, but sounds monophonic as well (the last thing you want from an up-front, solo instrument)


well, it does not sound distant I think. It just has the huge roominess of Air Lyndhurst included quite prominently. You can see in the trailer that the recording distance seems to be around 1 meter.

Also to have a close mic as a mono recording actually is exactly what I would it like to be - a single player is a point source after all and with a close perspective I want to be focused on that one and not on the nuances of the room in which case some sort of stereo field would make sense. All they did here is to pre-pan the mono signal in order to match the position captured with the tree mic.

I would agree though that the whole sound aesthetics indicate more of a super-first-desk library than an intimate and upfront solo library. 

But that thread is great reminder of how naive we folks tend to be - remember we really thought there might come a legato patch for the bass since there have been samples labeled bass legato found pretty early after release


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## jbuhler (Dec 6, 2021)

rocking.xmas.man said:


> But that thread is great reminder of how naive we folks tend to be - remember we really thought there might come a legato patch for the bass since there have been samples labeled bass legato found pretty early after release


I still expect that bass legato will appear some day…


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## jamwerks (Dec 6, 2021)

As for the legato patch, I imagine they do a dedicated locked patch just to protect themselves, that way nobody (other devs) can go in and see how they do their magic.

The hall is big & beautiful sounding. Too imo bad they don't scatter some big acoutic panels around the room while recording their samples. That would memic what a soloist sounds like with 70 other human bodies in the hall to absorb a bit of sound.


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## TonalDynamics (Dec 6, 2021)

rocking.xmas.man said:


> Also to have a close mic as a mono recording actually is exactly what I would it like to be - a single player is a point source after all and with a close perspective I want to be focused on that one and not on the nuances of the room in which case some sort of stereo field would make sense. All they did here is to pre-pan the mono signal in order to match the position captured with the tree mic.


Fair enough, but they could've simply done both I guess is my point, intimate and in-situ aren't mutually exclusive. For sections it would make no sense of course but we are talking about micing a single instrument here. Spend literally 5-15 more mins. on each player setting up a nice close-stereo mix and the product is instantly heaps better...

That's actually one thing I love about Cinesamples, despite all the other crazy stuff going on in their libraries, the stereo mixes are a pleasure to work with.

But as jbuhler already said, the sound of the instruments are very nice! For string quartet writing I can think of few libs more suited to the task.


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## jbuhler (Dec 6, 2021)

TonalDynamics said:


> Fair enough, but they could've simply done both I guess is my point, intimate and in-situ aren't mutually exclusive. For sections it would make no sense of course but we are talking about micing a single instrument here. Spend literally 5-15 more mins. on each player setting up a nice close-stereo mix and the product is instantly heaps better...
> 
> That's actually one thing I love about Cinesamples, despite all the other crazy stuff going on in their libraries, the stereo mixes are a pleasure to work with.
> 
> But as jbuhler already said, the sound of the instruments are very nice! For string quartet writing I can think of few libs more suited to the task.


I wonder if they don't have unreleased extended mics for these instruments, like the rest of the Air series, and we just haven't seen them yet. If that ever comes out, there would likely be a close stereo pair.


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