# Giovani Edition....



## Simon Ravn (Jun 22, 2005)

Damn. Seems like someone else have to do this right. Maybe our next forum project? It has the DIVA sound; mono-ish, phase-ish and muffled. Someone should tell Francis not to use Toys'r'Us microphone(s - are these stereo recordings at all?) and ESI converters. And maybe hire a classical engineer. This truly sounds like a missed opportunity to me. And it's got to be the samples, because the rest of the samples in the demo compositions generally sound more open and spacious. The vocal samples are just dull and... screwed up. With a $500 a day or so extra investment, this could have been great sounding probably. I actually hoped I was gonna buy this (if Francis would have let me :lol but I don't need this.

You can listen over at NS in the announcement thread.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 22, 2005)

No earplugs this time? Too lazy?


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## TheoKrueger (Jun 22, 2005)

Hey Simon,

I don't think its nice because of a personal thing that goes back years to bash every product Frank makes in public for no reason, especially 10 minutes after the product has been announced. 

Someone new to the forum might think that the above post is your honest oppinion. 

I worked very closely with GIO and it sounds wonderful. Frank wanted "real situation" demos where the choir would not be too loud in the mix but instead, the choir should be used like in a normal composition.

I have no personal issues with you Simon and i'd like it to stay that way, but i have to defend what i think is the truth.


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## Herman Witkam (Jun 22, 2005)

[quote:630713bb9d="Simon Ravn"]Damn. Seems like someone else have to do this right. Maybe our next forum project? It has the DIVA sound; mono-ish, phase-ish and muffled. Someone should tell Francis not to use Toys'r'Us microphone(s - are these stereo recordings at all?) and ESI converters. And maybe hire a classical engineer. This truly sounds like a missed 498a     @ÿú–ãâ&  ì  }ˆH488b498a   [email protected]÷ú—ã×&     Û„ˆH4cacd509 (http://www.scoredog.tv/scoredog80x80.jpg [email protected]öú˜ãê& /  }…ˆH4db3a3c4 107187628147a31240b05bd.jpg < @öú™ãé&    ÎˆˆH4c19e3ec 319313553483845b798ad5.jpg   @ÿúšã×&   O jˆH5a0fed91   < @÷ú›ãè& A p ÝˆH4ada40ce 1495945571466821c0c4d7b.gif [email protected]öúœãÒ&     .‘ˆHd5179d5a 1957365900487091f15fcf7.jpg < @öúãÒ&   ¥ Ê”ˆHd9ecbd73 53587129247260a429f71e.jpg < @öúžã


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 23, 2005)

Disregard.


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 23, 2005)

josejherring said:


> Giovanni sounds like the best childrens choir I've heard to date. Better than my SOV kids. Does anybody know of any better?
> 
> Jose



I haven't heard or tried the childrens choir in EWQL symphonic choirs, but I assume the sound quality in that is good at least. I still think the boys choir in SOV SOUNDS pretty good, at least if you don't expose it too much, it doesn't come across as super fake. So EWQL/SOV would still be the best ones around, except they are not as comprehensive as Giovani of course.


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 23, 2005)

Lex said:


> Choir in all the demos sounds as if it's being played trough a band pass on a mono chanel..
> 
> However I really like the performance of the choir in samples, and decided to order it and belive that the lo-fi sound is coming from the demo producers and not the samples....I refuse to belive that anyone could put out a recording that is so lo-fi...
> 
> Lex



Good luck - let me know when you have it It just doesn't make sense to me that the problems in the demos are mainly with the choir samples. Had it been the complete sound image that was screwed up in the demos, I could have been with you.


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## griels (Jun 23, 2005)

Hmm, I have to say this sample library sounds great to me. 'Heaven' made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and 'Pandora's Box' gave me a sense of impending doom.

For the record, I'm a newbie to orchestral composition and sound design, somewhere between your average punter on the street and Mr Picky Musician. But there are plenty of libraries people rave about (naming no names) which leave me cold. All I know is this is the best sounding choral sample library I've heard. And maybe people could wait until the general public has an opportunity to try this product before slating it...

Anyway, I'll leave you guys to argue over technicalities.. Thanks for listening...


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## Markus S (Jun 23, 2005)

griels said:


> Hmm, I have to say this sample library sounds great to me. 'Heaven' made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and 'Pandora's Box' gave me a sense of impending doom.
> 
> For the record, I'm a newbie to orchestral composition and sound design, somewhere between your average punter on the street and Mr Picky Musician. But there are plenty of libraries people rave about (naming no names) which leave me cold. All I know is this is the best sounding choral sample library I've heard. And maybe people could wait until the general public has an opportunity to try this product before slating it...
> 
> Anyway, I'll leave you guys to argue over technicalities.. Thanks for listening...



Best way to decide is by yourself listening to the demos, IMO. You will always find all the opinions on a product and all the opposite opinions. Just read the endless EWQLSO vs VSL threats.  When I bought my first samples I decided to buy the xsample woodwinds only based on the demos, I didn't find much praise of them around the forums, I still think they are absolutly great, never regretted my choice.


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## Hollow Sun (Jun 23, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Damn. Seems like someone else have to do this right.


Come on then smart arse - you put your money where your loud mouth is and *you* sink tens of thousands of $$$ and a year's work into it and *you* show us mere mortals how it _should_ be done in your infinite and 'Captain Golden Ears' wisdom - it's simple really. Oh yes.. of course... I forget... it's *SO* mush easier to sit there on your skinny arse and completely berate a product based on a few *MP3s* played over your PC speakers.



Simon Ravn said:


> Maybe our next forum project?


Go on then.



Simon Ravn said:


> It has the DIVA sound; mono-ish, phase-ish and muffled. Someone should tell Francis not to use Toys'r'Us microphone(s)


Don't be absurd! 

Look - if you don't like it (for whatever reason), so be it ... no problem and that's your prerogative but WTF is the point of your post? To somehow look superior? Well... that ain't happening!

My understanding of human biology is that your arse has just one purpose - best not to try and talk through it in future would be my advice.


Steve


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 23, 2005)

Sooo, Francis called up a friend, or maybe just himself to come out and help. Fine :twisted:


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## Markus S (Jun 23, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Sooo, Francis called up a friend, or maybe just himself to come out and help. Fine :twisted:



Simon, 

no disrespect, I don't think Francis did call up a friend or did write it by himself, he must be very busy with other things at the moment. What beats me : Why does such a talented guy like you spend so much energy and time on this, rather than creating more of such wonderful tracks like The Traveller?  So let's just leave this be, you don't like the lib, no problem, can't please everybody.. I don't like every lib on the market either..

Best and curious to hear some of your more recent works!


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 23, 2005)

Markus S said:


> Simon Ravn said:
> 
> 
> > Sooo, Francis called up a friend, or maybe just himself to come out and help. Fine :twisted:
> ...



Well he's a new poster, both here and on NS...  I don't spend much time on this. Don't worry. But I think it's amazing to repeat the same mistake over and over again. Besides, when people tell lies about me, like Francis and a certain GG has done, I am not going to act friendly with them.

There's plenty of recent stuff at my website, but I have also done a lot of stuff I am not allowed to release to the public.


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## Markus S (Jun 23, 2005)

Hi Simon,

Steve has been working on the loops of gio as he posted on NS forum. I have been beta testing the product, so I can grant for his identity. I think, it is understandable people are getting upset when they see their hard work being attacked imediatly.
It is ok with everybody, if you don't like the sound of the lib, however if there is some personal matter involved, I think this should better be discussed apart from gio.

So.. now keep up the great work,  
Markus.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 23, 2005)

Markus S said:


> What beats me : Why does such a talented guy like you spend so much energy and time on this, rather than creating more of such wonderful tracks like The Traveller?



Please don't discourage members from participating actively in forums like this one. It *is* possible to write great music and post opinions on forums. After all, it takes about what, 15 seconds tops to write a few lines and hit the Submit button?


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 23, 2005)

Markus S said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> Steve has been working on the loops of gio as he posted on NS forum. I have been beta testing the product, so I can grant for his identity. I think, it is understandable people are getting upset when they see their hard work being attacked imediatly.
> It is ok with everybody, if you don't like the sound of the lib, however if there is some personal matter involved, I think this should better be discussed apart from gio.
> ...



To some degree it is personal. But my opinion is completely frank. It's just with gloves completely off I wouldn't call it crap if I thought it was great or vice versa, no matter how much I disliked a developer. Had I been married to Francis, I probably wouldn't have posted at all about it, just to be nice.


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## Markus S (Jun 23, 2005)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Markus S said:
> 
> 
> > What beats me : Why does such a talented guy like you spend so much energy and time on this, rather than creating more of such wonderful tracks like The Traveller?
> ...



Hi Ned,

I suppose this must be a misunderstanding.. 

Like I said, I respect Simons opinion on the product, even if I don't share it personally. If everybody would always agree, forums would just be a big bore. So, I didn't mean to discourage anyone.
All I was just saying that this should not become some kind of personal *war* or that personal issues, that are not related to the lib, get involved. And I was saying that Francis was not behind the identity of the post above, as far as I know.
Furthermore I said, that I have no personal issue with Simon, but very much respect for his work.

So, hope there's no other misunderstanding.. :wink:


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## Hollow Sun (Jun 23, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Sooo, Francis called up a friend, or maybe just himself to come out and help. Fine :twisted:


Again... don't be absurd!

I was just trawling and stumbled upon this sorry thread and (as pointed out elsewhere hereabouts) given that I actually worked on and *know* these samples and their quality AND because I know the sheer amount of work and investment that went into Gio, to see it being trashed by some unknown who has based his opinion on a few MP3s enraged me. And I expressed an opinion. Is that wrong? Or do you have the exclusive on that?

To imply that I am Francis under a pseudonym is insulting to Francis and impertinent. You can clearly see my posts at NS (and elsewhere - I don't hide under silly names) and you can see my own site.

Personally, I don't know who you are or what your agenda is but I think you're a troll.

Hmmmm


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## Hollow Sun (Jun 23, 2005)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> It *is* possible to wriËäê& / Š ½@‹H4c187205 670122648487fd418473a7.jpg    @ÿúÌäÔ& C x B‹H43bc8be5     @ÿúÍäê& / x ‡B‹H43bc8be5   [email protected]öúÎäÓ&    ½B‹Hd07d0a2d 1909507113461d5175636a2.gif < @öúÑäË& A  E‹H4769aa70 837311559447656a64d4c9.jpg


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## Hollow Sun (Jun 23, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> You didn't express an opinion, you made a personal assault


And you didn't make a personal assault on Gio? Let's see....

"mono-ish, phase-ish and muffled. Someone should tell Francis not to use Toys'r'Us microphone(s - are these stereo recordings at all?)"

"The vocal samples are just dull and... screwed up. With a $500 a day or so extra investment, this could have been great sounding probably."

"It sounds horrible"

Your unfounded, opinionated vitriol continues elsewhere with comments that (to me at least) are a "personal assault" on the quality of Gio.



Simon Ravn said:


> I was guessing you were EITHER Francis, or - more likely - a friend of him. At least that wasn't too far off. First post on NS, first post here. Typical.


Well... you seem very adept at jumping to wrong conclusions.

Yes... I am *now* a 'virtual' friend of Francis. He employed me to do some work on the project through word-of-mouth, recommendation and my work at my own website. In fact (not that I need to justify my actions to you), at first, Francis and I fell out over a difference of opinion but we overcame that and I became heavily involved in Gio and it was at this point that I truly understood the time, energy, love, passion, effort and money invested in this project. Since that time, yes... I value Francis as a friend (albeit professionally and 'virtually' - we have never met) which is why I rose to his defence (and all the other talents involved in this project).

And yes..you are right - my first posting here (to respond to your trolling) but not my first post to NS - one of many (tho I will admit that I am not prolific there).

So - you don't like Gio.. fine - I am sure Francis has no problem with that. You think you can do better - go on then.

However, I think it unreasonable for you to post such deflammatory opinions when you have not actually _used_ the product. Had you posted your comments a week from now after having ordered, received and actually _used_ Gio, your opinion would carry more weight and respect. As it is, you have based your opinion on a handful of MP3s (not known for their sonic fidelity) and as such, your opinions and criticisms have no validity.

Your insistence in pursuing this thread so vigorously with personal insults to all involved in the Gio project implies to me some sort of curious vendetta that I find unhealthy and incomprehensible.

You don't like it (based on the demos) - fine... drop it and do something better with your time/talent.

Steve


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## Lex (Jun 23, 2005)

Hollow Sun said:


> Personally, I don't know who you are or what your agenda is but I think you're a troll.
> 
> Hmmmm



Hah! name calling , cool..

I dont know who you are, but I think you're a fat gnome! :twisted: 

aLex


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## jc5 (Jun 23, 2005)

I second Ned's request for an a capella demo. No better way to judge a sound than by hearing it stand up all by itself musically - after all, I can even make my Roland choir patches sit well in mix. :wink: 

From what I've heard, I like the actual performances of the samples - very 'live' and natural. I was also pleasantly surprised by the fact that at least some word building has been incorporated, even if in a limited way. And the legato functions seem to be nothing to scoff at.

My main concern, as a potential buyer, is that the lib is a tad pricey in comparison to Symphonic Choirs, which gives you full word building for all vocal sections of an adult choir, as well as a boy choir (and a couple of solos as bonus)...

An added advantage for Giovani though is that it will be available for Giga.. hmmmm...


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## Lex (Jun 23, 2005)

jc5 said:


> My main concern, as a potential buyer, is that the lib is a tad pricey in comparison to Symphonic Choirs, which gives you full word building for all vocal sections of an adult choir, as well as a boy choir (and a couple of solos as bonus)...
> 
> An added advantage for Giovani though is that it will be available for Giga.. hmmmm...



Well, while the recording in QLSC is superb, the boy choir in it is more of an add on IMHO...sounds great but it's not as versital as the main choir..
QLSC doesnt have legato, no mather what marketing says..

As for word building in QLSC , it works, but I'm really eager to try the choped up phrases thing in GIO, since this is the aproach Im advocating since the days of Siedlaczek choir..

My point is that comparing QLSC and GIO doesnt make much sence, cause one has boy choir as bonus, the other is extensive children choir only...

Now, fingers crossed that the GIO demo makers are tone deaf and that the lib acctualy doesnt have a permanent band-pass turned on..

aLex


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## fv (Jun 23, 2005)

Hi,



Hollow Sun said:


> As it is, you have based your opinion on a handful of MP3s (not known for their sonic fidelity) and as such, your opinions and criticisms have no validity.



A capella demos would be nice from my perspective too. If MP3's are not known for their sonic fidelity and some people have been dissing the sound quality, why not also post one or 2 of the demos in 24-bit .wav quality so that people can get a better sense of what the uncompressed sound of this library is really like? Or, perhaps re-compress them as MP3's using a different codec. I've found that there are differences (sometimes large) between different mp3's encoders.

I personally cannot make any comments on what I think of the sound as I haven't had a chance to listen to the demos on a decent system (just on computer speakers). I do agree about the live quality to them. They seem to be very alive and natural in their performance. 

IMHO, some of you are feeding the fire by attacking Simon's opinion of these samples. This is, afterall, his (and only one person's) opinion. He doesn't like the way they sound in the demo. That's how he feels. You feel differently? Great! Buy a copy of the lib if you need it and have the money. 

FV


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## jc5 (Jun 23, 2005)

Lex said:


> jc5 said:
> 
> 
> > My main concern, as a potential buyer, is that the lib is a tad pricey in comparison to Symphonic Choirs, which gives you full word building for all vocal sections of an adult choir, as well as a boy choir (and a couple of solos as bonus)...
> ...



Interesting points - I have to admit, I did notice something afoot with the sound... Francis has promised some a capella demos though, so that will (should) quickly show us what is going on in that department.

In the pdf notes by the demo makers, for the question of 'what else would you like to see in future' most list more syllables for word building. I really do hope that the syllable pool is expanded in time - in the end, there are a finite number of different syllables in language, and if enough of them are covered one can be pretty free in phrase construction. That for me would increase the value of the library a thousand fold.

As an aside... I wonder if the syllabic approach to word building would be more effective for _solo_ voices, which have thus far been rather elusive?

Regarding SC, how much of a 'bonus' is the boys choir really though? I believe it is just as functional as any of the adult sections, including full word building?


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## Lex (Jun 23, 2005)

The word building works fine with Boys in SC, but there are no slurr patches, plus the dynamics are not as wide as in full choirs..

But they sound good, much better then what you can hear in current demos..

aLex


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## Marsdy (Jun 23, 2005)

jc5 said:


> I second Ned's request for an a capella demo. No better way to judge a sound than by hearing it stand up all by itself musically - after all, I can even make my Roland choir patches sit well in mix. :wink:



Exactly!

This demo sounds seriously strange...
http://www.beladmedia.com/audio/pandoras-box.mp3

It sounds like there are serious phase issues with the choir, listen in mono and the choir gets even more distant! Whether there are, it's hard to tell because the whole mix doesn't sound right. It might well be a poor quality mp3 but that's a pretty poor state of affairs if it is.

I certainly wouldn't fork out hard earned cash on the basis of this demo despite there being nothing wrong with the composition. 

I'm also hearing some really odd sibilance and some wacky tuning occasionally. 

People spend a lot of money on samples, often money they can't really afford. I really hate it when they don't get the quality they expect or deserve. This lib really needs some demoes were you can hear the samples clearly. As it stands, the audio quality of the samples sounds quite poor compared to the competition.


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## Marsdy (Jun 23, 2005)

oops double post.


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## Scott Rogers (Jun 23, 2005)

..........


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## FilmComposerZ (Jun 23, 2005)

Strange....I heard EWQL Choir demos with some friends, and all agreed that the Giovani was so much more organic (Children's choir of course)....Of course no WordBuilding Utility like EWQLSC, but does have something "similar". This is definetely on my list...

But I guess it's all personal taste...

Great job Francis, another winner...


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## José Herring (Jun 23, 2005)

Finally heard the demos on my studio monitors.

I tell you it does have some flanging artifacts but what struck me is that this choir actually glides pretty good in legato and also sounds pretty natural performance wise.

I'm not sure if the phase stuff comes from the mixes or not. I wish demo composers would actually compose for the medium. I mean lets lay of the Carmina Buruna orchestra for just a little bit so we can actually hear these choirs more in a context that they would be used. The orchestra in these demos is way over powering the kids choir sound and as a result the mixes sound unnatural.

Also, I'm wondering if some women were used to make this childrens choir. Sounds like I hear femal voice disguised to sound like kids rather than actuall kids. But, again its hard to tell with these demo pieces.

One more vote for acapella demos.


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## Markus S (Jun 23, 2005)

josejherring said:


> Finally heard the demos on my studio monitors.
> 
> I tell you it does have some flanging artifacts but what struck me is that this choir actually glides pretty good in legato and also sounds pretty natural performance wise.
> 
> ...



I agree with you, IMO, the demos bury too much the choir and the style of the compositions would rather fit to a huge adult choir. I can hear the artifacts on the demos, too, but as far as I can tell, they are not from the samples, but rather from the processing, maybe mastering, or mp3 compression. I think gio is all about natural singing and a "live" feel to the samples. There is as less processing as possible on the wav files.
Something I like alot about some of the patches : they connect very well and give you easily a legato feel.
There are no femal singers in the boys section, but you get also a very nice girl choir (first one sampled, I believe). Anyway I am sure we'll hear some acapella demos soon.

(Edit : just for the info, I have beta tested gio)


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## lux (Jun 23, 2005)

The demos are musically nice. I hear something strange in overall mix too, but I think it should be more a reverb/panning/mastering problem.

I have to say that is not possible to give such definite comment, based on those demos, because voices are not much exposed, I think due to a musical choice.

I think we should clarify for demoers that the judgement is not about the pieces, that I find personally good, but about the fact thats a choirs library, and people try to understand how would it sound under their fingers, expecially for a 500$ price.

I do the same thoutgh also for EWQL choirs (doubled, assumed they cost 1000$)

Luca


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 23, 2005)

Hollow Sun said:


> Had you posted your comments a week from now after having ordered, received and actually _used_ Gio, your opinion would carry more weight and respect. As it is, you have based your opinion on a handful of MP3s (not known for their sonic fidelity) and as such, your opinions and criticisms have no validity.



Steve, I don't really understand why you think that demos are not what should be used to judge a given library. Are you suggesting that the only way to judge any library is to own it? If so, then how are we supposed to make a decision before the purchase? And why do some companies and individuals spend so much time and effort on their demos? I have composed a few demos in my time, and I can tell you that never did I question the value of these glimpses into a given library. As for the quality of mp3s, well most sample library demos are of that format, so the playing field is even, and we _can_ compare.


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## Christian Marcussen (Jun 23, 2005)

Belad just posted on NS that some stero plug fucked up the sound.


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## Marsdy (Jun 23, 2005)

Christian Marcussen said:


> Belad just posted on NS that some stero plug [email protected]#k up the sound.



You don't say!


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## Christian Marcussen (Jun 23, 2005)

Oh sorry..has that been mentioned in this thread? Must have missed it


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## Marsdy (Jun 23, 2005)

Hollow Sun said:


> Simon Ravn said:
> 
> 
> > Damn. Seems like someone else have to do this right.
> ...



Funny how people never take their own advice :roll: 

Maybe we can hear the non screwed up version of the demos now?


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## Ed (Jun 23, 2005)

The demos are nice as music. The choir is too burried, but what I hear I dont like. I had high hopes for this one too.

Ed


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## José Herring (Jun 23, 2005)

Christian Marcussen said:


> Belad just posted on NS that some stero plug [email protected]#k up the sound.



Well is he going to release the demos again or is he just going to post lame excuses.

Imagine me telling my clients, "ah, sorry about the music. The computer f*#k up my sounds."

Jose :roll:

edit: He was probably using the free voxengo stereo enhancer. I downloaded that yesterday and it has that flangy sound to it. Hmmmm...


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## TheoKrueger (Jun 23, 2005)

Hey guys,

I can't deny that my demo sounded strange.
The mastering really changed the natural sound of the initial mix. Its hard to understand what a stereo plug-in can do when you don't A-B all the time. 
Frank realised what was happening and already posted a new version and there are more demos coming up.

Anyway,

You can also have a listen to Kaveh Cohen's demo which sounds amazing and the production is great too. http://www.beladmedia.com/audio/journey.mp3


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## TheoKrueger (Jun 23, 2005)

And... a natural version of my GIO demo. With no wideners and stuff:

http://www.beladmedia.com/audio/pandoras-box-nv.mp3

I believe the choir is loud enough in this version and has no phasing or mastering issues like the previous versions. Please let me know what you think guys.


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## Niah (Jun 23, 2005)

saaaayyy, that's mucho better theo!

When I heard the first demos I thought the problem was from the geovani impulse reverb, and started me thinking - Where did they record this? In the bathroom? hehehe.

I'm particulary impressed by the choir's oh's and ah's they sound great with the orchestra. Although I'm not sure if they will sound as good on their own or even in a more exposed mix. But I think so yes.
As for the word-building/phrases there's still a long way to go for geovani and EWQLSC, either products seem to lack of a smooth legato feel between the sylables. 

Anyway nice job, it is a great demo!


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## TheoKrueger (Jun 23, 2005)

Thank you Niah! I am glad you like it better.

Cheers mate


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## José Herring (Jun 23, 2005)

Truly remarkable. Much better. Thanks Theo.

This moves to the must buy list.

Very good work Francis.

Cheers,

Jose


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 24, 2005)

Hollow Sun said:


> Simon Ravn said:
> 
> 
> > You didn't express an opinion, you made a personal assault
> ...



That's not a personal attack. That's an attack on the equipment used, because I believe it sounds bad.



> "The vocal samples are just dull and... screwed up. With a $500 a day or so extra investment, this could have been great sounding probably."
> 
> "It sounds horrible"



Same here. It's my opinion on the sound quality on the samples, and my opinion is that had he hired an engineer with a good set of mics and preamps, it would have sounded so much better. Why skimp on the recording quality when you record something as big as a choir. 


> And yes..you are right - my first posting here (to respond to your trolling) but not my first post to NS - one of many (tho I will admit that I am not prolific there).



OK sorry, maybe not your very first post at NS. But you have the status of a "new member", so it can't have been that many.


> So - you don't like Gio.. fine - I am sure Francis has no problem with that. You think you can do better - go on then.



I can do better. I know that for a fact. But I am not going to become a commercial sample library developer.



> As it is, you have based your opinion on a handful of MP3s (not known for their sonic fidelity) and as such, your opinions and criticisms have no validity.



MP3's can sound great. Most people can't tell the difference between a 192kbps encoded MP3 and a 24-bit .WAV - I conducted this test several times. So don't give me the "its the MP3 causing it" lecture. Tell me how the MP3 should affect the choir samples only and not the rest of the material. Don't be silly.


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 24, 2005)

Hey hollow sun (and others) 

I put up a small clip with two short choir (a capella) I used on a film score. This is a small choir, for economical reasons, only 12 people, divided into 4 voices So don't expect it to be huge sounding even though I did several takes and mixed them together.

Does it have the muffled, mono-ish, phased sound? I don't believe so. This was very quick to setup and record. I eventually layered this with VOTA on the final tracks and it works great.

http://www.simonravn.com/media/Choir-testerc35


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 24, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Hey hollow sun (and others)
> 
> I put up a small clip with two short choir (a capella) I used on a film score.



Too short... More! :D 8)


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 24, 2005)

I'd like to hear a Ligeti mock-up using one the choir libraries. Andy Blaney?


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## Aaron Sapp (Jun 24, 2005)

It doesn't sound awful, but it didn't meet my expectations. I was hoping this would be THE childrens choir library... but it sounds appropriate more for pad like work. 

At any rate, good luck with the release!


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## Markus S (Jun 24, 2005)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> I'd like to hear a Ligeti mock-up using one the choir libraries. Andy Blaney?



..miam, miam.. Ligeti is my favorit composer (so far). You mean his cluster work? EWSC has some really stunning cluster effects.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 24, 2005)

Clusters, random gliss, whispers... the works! But not as performances/loops. Programmed.


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## Markus S (Jun 24, 2005)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Clusters, random gliss, whispers... the works! But not as performances/loops. Programmed.



Oh, ok... maybe with an upcoming synful choir. :lol:


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 24, 2005)

Markus S said:


> Simon Ravn said:
> 
> 
> > Hey hollow sun (and others)
> ...



My point was not to say that samples should sound as REAL as a live performance - but the sound quality, the engineering part of Giovani should be on par with a "real" recording.

There's some leftover around 3-5khz from a "clicktrack" the performers had in their ears that I didn't notice before after the recordings. It wasn't a problem in the mix though. The point is: this has HF material. Giovani sounds like everything above 5khz is gone.


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 24, 2005)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Simon Ravn said:
> 
> 
> > Hey hollow sun (and others)
> ...



Generally it was very short instances of choir that I used Besides it doesn't make so much sense a capella since it wasn't used a capella at ALL


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 24, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> The point is: this has HF material. Giovani sounds like everything above 5khz is gone.



Maybe it's a mixing problem from the mastering of the mp3s. I vote that someone give Simon a copy so we can really be sure! :lol:


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## Markus S (Jun 24, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Markus S said:
> 
> 
> > Simon Ravn said:
> ...



Yes, of course, I did get that. (I was just talking in general. Better performance makes better (richer) overall sound.) 

As far as I am concerned, I didn't realize the high frequencies, missing, but it is true, that they are rather soft (not exagerated). Now this is just very hypothetical, but it *could* also be that the composers had the modwheel down while composing which is indeed some kind of high cut filter. This happened to me serveral times while testing. I cannot be sure at all about this, the choir is too buried in the mix. It sounds brighter, in example in Heaven, if I remember right. 

Anyway, the best way to decide if you like the sound or not are indeed acapella demos, dry which will be posted soon, as I read somewhere..

Best,
Markus.


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## Scott Rogers (Jun 24, 2005)

..........


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 24, 2005)

Markus S said:


> Simon Ravn said:
> 
> 
> > Markus S said:
> ...



I think you're reaching here...


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## Kaveh Cohen (Jun 24, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Choir still sounds muffled and mono. And totally burried.



As Bela D Media has stated on more than one occassion, Giovani was designed to capture the dark and ethereal side of the children's choir. It does not have the "airy" sound you've described as that was not the producer's intent. If you're seeking that sound, then the Quantum Leap Symphonic Choirs Boy's Choirs are best suited for you.

The choir is neither muffled nor mono. The phase and collapsed mono problem you made issue with was caught and addressed by the producer shortly after posting the initial demos. Giovani is a fresh perspective to the current lineup of choirs, providing a different and necessary "sound" that has not been addressed with the choir libraries released to date. As with orchestra libraries, it is a great benefit to the composer to have a varied palette of textures so that the orchestra, or in this case the choir, does not always sound the same and allows the composer to be versatile in different contexts that call for a different tone. To this end, again Giovani offers the darker and more ethereal side of the children's choir.

Finally, the choir is not buried in any of the posted demos. The producer's intent was to showcase the choir in a real world context of a piece of music. For this reason, the choir was not made louder or more prominent in the mix. If you are interested in hearing the choir isolated, I understand Bela D Media will be posting isolated choir samples soon.

Kaveh Cohen


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## Markus S (Jun 24, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Markus S said:
> 
> 
> > Simon Ravn said:
> ...



What am I reaching? :D 

Sorry, didn't get you. All I was saying is that there is a modwheel function with a high cut filter. It didn't mean to say that turning the mod wheel makes the samples sound from bad to good.  It is a matter of choice of the composer to make the sound a little more "duller" or "brither", so maybe the demo composer prefere the high cut sound to make it sound a little softer in the mix (as I did myself). Maybe that is what you are hearing, and what is disturbing you. 

Best,
Markus.


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## Markus S (Jun 24, 2005)

Kaveh Cohen said:


> As Bela D Media has stated on more than one occassion, Giovani was designed to capture the dark and ethereal side of the children's choir. It does not have the "airy" sound you've described as that was not the producer's intent. If you're seeking that sound, then the Quantum Leap Symphonic Choirs Boy's Choirs are best suited for you.



Very well analysed. In fact you will find this very airy sound in the boys section EWQLSC. It is a esthetical choice from the producers, to create either a somehow "over the top", more attractive sound than real or to leave the sound as is, as natural as possible. Both are valuable choices, IMO, the use is depending on context.


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## Nick Phoenix (Jun 24, 2005)

I can sympathize with Francis on this one, because choir demos are very difficult to do. We still don't have demos for EWQLSC that really show off the library. To me the choir in the new Bela library demos is too soft and do sound a bit phasey, but this might not be the library itself. It's hard to tell. The FX sound really great, though.


----------



## ComposerDude (Jun 24, 2005)




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## tob (Jun 25, 2005)

Great idea!! I think this library can be very useful. Hard to tell the sound quality judging from the demos.. sounds like they are lowpass filtered, burried in reverb and mastered with exciters and stereo wideners... (I hope it's recorded without any extra processing).

Let us hear some demos with louder choir and with no further processing. Wanna hear how the library sounds like and not how the composers studio sounds like. 

/Tobias


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## Kaveh Cohen (Jun 25, 2005)

tob said:


> Great idea!! I think this library can be very useful. Hard to tell the sound quality judging from the demos.. sounds like they are lowpass filtered, burried in reverb and mastered with exciters and stereo wideners... (I hope it's recorded without any extra processing).
> 
> Let us hear some demos with louder choir and with no further processing. Wanna hear how the library sounds like and not how the composers studio sounds like.
> 
> /Tobias



Hello Tobias,

To answer your query, in regard to my own piece for Giovani, the choir was not lowpass filtered, effected by any more reverb than the orchestra and had no processing whatsoever other than some mild compression. No exciters and stereo wideners you mentioned were used for the choir or for the orchestra.

The redundant issue with posting product demos is that it inevitably illicits the same responses. On one side of the fence, some potential users want to hear a libraries' usage in actual real world contexts as exhibited by the current lineup of demos. Others prefer to hear the library either more prominently featured or isolated. 

With this in mind, please take into consideration that these demos were constructed to reflect how most users may use the library. It is also important for the demos to reflect what the respective composers' studios sound like as we have used many of the tools available to everybody. This again reflects how the new library will perform when blended with other samples.

I believe Bela D Media will be posting isolated choir demonstrations soon.

Best,

Kaveh Cohen.


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## tob (Jun 25, 2005)

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## Hardy Heern (Jun 26, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Sooo, Francis called up a friend, or maybe just himself to come out and help. Fine :twisted:



I only got as far as the above post in this thread before feeling compelled to post  

I like to be even handed and have always thought you're a decent composer.....but if you carry your attitude over into your business life (I bet you don't) it's not going to help your case.

To suggest that everyone who disagrees with your opinion has either physical problems which prevent them hearing stuff as well as you do or is a friend of Francis Belardino is just plain bloody stupid.

I didn't like the divas at all but this library is a different kettle of fish.

Forget the past and just move on ...let it go.....try to be reasonable and fair....as long as it doesn't hurt too much. :D 

Frank


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 26, 2005)

Well, Hardy, I wasn't far off was I? First time poster... it usually makes sense like that.


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## Hardy Heern (Jun 26, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Well, Hardy, I wasn't far off was I? First time poster... it usually makes sense like that.



I guess it does sometimes....and that really pisses me off too. People who come up with double and more identies and other devious strategies. I say, if folk have anything to say 'Stand up and be counted!'.

That's why I use the same identity at all the forums I post at.

I'm only at page two of the thread so if you exposed this guy later I'll get to it eventually! :D 

As a matter of interest I just had the following deleted, without explanation, and re-posted at NS (on the occasion of the announcement of SI's new library....so there's always a lot of silly business practices going on there and elsewhere. Music's a dirty business! :D (apparently)

_ Second post- I had the following email deleted from this thread without reason....and I thought it was a fair observation too. Four days since I posted this, the observation still seems to be true: -

This sounds like a very exciting and innovative sample library, although more than a little out of my reach. I listened to all the demos and it does sound very good indeed and the variety of compositions is excellent.....hard to pick a favourite......especially as I don't want to encourage conceit! 

I must say this though. It does disturb and annoy me, due to the incestuousness of it, that there is a group of developers (and their followers) on this forum who IMMEDIATELY (before the pixels dry), sycophantically congratulate each others? product introductions. 

It just struck me that their congratulations are noticeably absent here??.so far (and I?ve waited for a few hours before posting this?.. just to make sure I?m not jumping the gun).

This sort of ?business? just puts my back up and makes these perpetrators look extremely foolish IMO (or thoughtless and self centred....if I were to be generous).

Are Silcon Implants somehow outside the ?Inner circle?? Are they the lepers here?

Good luck with this SI.

Frank_ 



Frank


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 26, 2005)

Hardy, you are right that the GPO's and the Bela D's always praise each other for everything, both products, birthdays, sales figures and what not. It's so corny, really. But I guess most people can see through this easily, since it's so obvious? I hope so.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 26, 2005)

Hey guys,

Can we cut down on the GPO, Bela, etc bashing? I don't mean good, incisive criticism (-> Simon) and honest opinions, just the useless your-pants-are-too-tight disdain. IMO, it's enough of a statement of position to just leave NS for a while (or for good).

You can always use chats to spill some bile. :twisted:


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 26, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> So Simon when is your birthday? I've already baked you a big ol' GPO cake. hyuk hyuk hyuk yuk...



Oh it's far away - january, so I suggest you put that cake in the freezer  Thanks


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## Niah (Jun 26, 2005)

Hardy Heern.

It looks like your post is a mixed bag.

It seems to me that you liked the library, and then started rambling about the biz and doing unfair accusations. So, were do you stand?

Also what's with the cry-baby attitude? Your posted was deleted and now you re-posted on the sonic implants forum. What exactly do you want?

I believe you can post criticism, but do you want do be taking seriously by calling the company Silcon Implants? Why not Silcon Pants too? 

I think that's why your post was deleted and now it's being ignored your criticism seemed more like bashing.


----------



## Hardy Heern (Jun 26, 2005)

Niah said:


> Hardy Heern.
> 
> It looks like your post is a mixed bag.
> 
> ...



Niah (you say your location is earth?),

I don't know who you are.....are you a double??

You're right, my post is a mixed bag.....in the sense that I'm saying a couple of things and they've been said on different threads. Maybe it's not that comprehensible or perhaps it's ambiguous.

The things I'm saying are these:

I didn't like BelaMedias Diva....but that doesn't mean it's bad.... it's just not my cup of tea.

I like BelaMedia's Giovanni choir and so it seems do most folk

I like GPO and think it's a brilliant value for money package (and so does half the world) (I've got Gold too mind you)

I liked the demos of the new SI Symphony orchestra.

I don't like the way some developers and their troops, at NS and probably elsewhere, fawn over each others products at launch to an almost childish degree whilst totally ignoring this new SI library. This practice isn't solely limited to Gary G or Francis B either.

I hope that this clarifies what I was saying.....it should be clear now. This is where I stand and always have done. Look at any of my many posts. I try to tell it like it is as I've no allegiances.....but obviously what I say is tinged by my personal preferences and taste. 'Loyalty' is one of the most abused and misused of human traits. Loyalty in the wrong hands is very dangerous indeed. Honesty is a more straightforward trait.

I hope this helps.

It so happens that I do like to play with words but I hadn't realised my mistake with SI!! :D I wish I _had _thought of that....it would have been a good laugh at the right time. That is a true Freudian slip!!.....my mind must have been elsewhere!!! :D :D 

Best regards

Cry Baby
PS If there's something you don't agree with.....fine. If there is something that still isn't clear, let me know.


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## Niah (Jun 26, 2005)

Thank you for making it clearer Hardy, and I apologize if I misunderstood some things you said.

_I don't like the way some developers and their troops, at NS and probably elsewhere, fawn over each others products at launch to an almost childish degree whilst totally ignoring this new SI library. This practice isn't solely limited to Gary G or Francis B either. _

We all know what NS has become into. So I think it's a waste of energy really posting about that but that's my my opinion. I always thought that SI was one of the less representative companies on NS so I was glad to see some support from other developers. (even is if sounded fake)

Now I'm not speaking directly to you Hardy but to all:
I believe people should post their criticism about the products, either good of bad, they are all valid opinions. But leave the companies alone.
I think it's the only way to help musicians and developers to "live under the same roof".


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## esteso (Jun 26, 2005)

I've got to agree that I would love to hear the featured library much louder in the mix. Acapella in this case would be even better. I can imagine how I'd use the library in a "real world" situation quite easily, thank you very much. I want to hear how the library really sounds.

This is how I do it in my studio. A singer lays down a track. We listen back quite a bit louder than the level it will sit on the final mix. Sometimes if we're lazy or pressed for time we'll back it down into the mix and say, "Oh well, good enough!"

Cheers


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## TARI (Jun 26, 2005)

I heard the demos of EWQLSC and except one or two, the rest I don?t like the way the choirs sounds. I am not going to buy that library, even if they use the best microphone or engineer in the universe. 
The demos of Gio sounds real and beauty, they make me feel a wonderful sensation.
Perhaps we should talk about emotions and sensations instead of technical aspects.
I didn't heard nothing bad technicaly speaking in GIO ( I am not an engineer), but I am a composer that searchs things full of magic and spirit, and I am sure that Gio is plenty of that :wink:


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## tob (Jun 27, 2005)

TARI said:


> I heard the demos of EWQLSC and except one or two, the rest I don?t like the way the choirs sounds. I am not going to buy that library, even if they use the best microphone or engineer in the universe.
> The demos of Gio sounds real and beauty, they make me feel a wonderful sensation.
> Perhaps we should talk about emotions and sensations instead of technical aspects.
> I didn't heard nothing bad technicaly speaking in GIO ( I am not an engineer), but I am a composer that searchs things full of magic and spirit, and I am sure that Gio is plenty of that :wink:



I like the feel of the GIO too.. but I can't say I know what that library is capable of. Need to hear more before I buy if I'll buy it.  Love EWQLSC though but if GIO can do something that EWQLSC can't I'll better get it. Can't get enough of choirs... 

/Tobias

/Tobias


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## TARI (Jun 27, 2005)

tob said:


> TARI said:
> 
> 
> > I heard the demos of EWQLSC and except one or two, the rest I don?t like the way the choirs sounds. I am not going to buy that library, even if they use the best microphone or engineer in the universe.
> ...



Hi Tobias. I have just bought yesterday Gio. I think the demos are enough to see the possibilities of this library, and the price is really afordable. I really like DIVA, so I can imagine Gio is much better because everybody does his work even better with the pass of time and because there are 2DVDs 8) I think that I have done a good buy without doubt. I am sure Gio will surprise me, i will tell you next week :wink:


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## choc0thrax (Jun 27, 2005)

Hey Simon my birthday is in January too, Capricorn power!! Unless you were born later in the month and are one of those yucky Aquariuses.


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## Markleford (Jun 27, 2005)

One important thing to note about sample library development is that often times mastering decisions are made in order to expand the breadth of its potential application. In such cases, an overwhelming amount of "character" can be seen as a limiting factor, as it constrains its suitability across the gamut.

So, if a choir is *too* breathy/airy, you're going to divide potential customers into two camps: love it or hate it. Hopefully the programming of a library is such that the user can make the decision about various sonic aspects in a non-destructive capacity, through filters and convolution and whatnot.

But there are also times where this decision has to be made at recording time with selection of microphones, their placement, and the venue. Naturally, one would hope to capture the performance with as many mics and locations as possible. Realistically, one could *never* produce a sample set from each of these: too much work!

So it comes down to an editorial decision as to chosing one or a limited number of recordings to use, and hopefully these will suit the needs of as many different applications possible.

I can't say as Gio is better than X library or not: choirs aren't my thing. It does sound like it could fit a number of applications well, and I hope that nobody here has the hubris to proclaim that Gio is unsuitable for *everyone's* purposes. As for people that are very picky about their childrens choir sounds (like I'm picky about sax!), they probably have a favorite library already, or at least they now have the option of buying the cheaper Gio to do mock-ups before they hire real people to do a location session.

And please try to differentiate "the quality is below my demands" with "this library is a festering turd".  Politeness doesn't cost you anything (except perhaps some "forum cred" for being a trash-talking bad-ass, as many people apparently aspire to be).

Calling to question a developer's professional acumen for creating a library to a particular spec and price shows a lack of understanding of the market. There's supposed to be something for everyone. That's the beauty of it: pick what your ear and budget requires.

- m


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## Lex (Jun 27, 2005)

New demo at NS

http://www.beladmedia.com/audio/addison.mp3

Sounds muuuuch better now to me..

Still the recording sounds very thin to my ears, but the phrasing and "feel" are very organic and pretty..

aLex


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 27, 2005)

Yes this could have been great - performances sound really good. But the reordings still sound really low-fi and bad.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 27, 2005)

I have to agree it does sound kind of lofi but it is the best demo so far.


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## tob (Jun 27, 2005)

Yeah.. sounds like the choir is moving around for every new note and I hea a lot of interference (is that the right term when notes interfere and gives some weird distortion?). Guess the only way to know what this library sounds like.

How many patches is this? What is phrases and whats not phrases? Which mic pairs (sounds very reverberant)?

I like the in your face tubular bell at 00:49, hehehe. 

/Tobias


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 27, 2005)

http://www.webalice.it/fatis12/files/Mottetto2.mp3 

This actually is the most convincing and best sounding of all the demos I heard - it seems to have more HF material.


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## tob (Jun 27, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> http://www.webalice.it/fatis12/files/Mottetto2.mp3
> 
> This actually is the most convincing and best sounding of all the demos I heard - it seems to have more HF material.



Yeah, this demo sounded better. I hope this is rear mics and that there is a pair of closer mics as well. 

/Tobias


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## TARI (Jun 27, 2005)

Beautiful demo, Rob!! You always compose wonderful things. It is an evidence that Giovani is the best vocal library now. I love the long reverb, it is like hearing a concert in a church. 

And no LF or HF...just HQ!!!!!!!! :wink:


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## Niah (Jun 27, 2005)

Rob's demo is very good, I like it's fluency. But I agree with simon now, it sounds lf and sort of muffed.

As for the second demo, the choir sounds mucho better, perhaps because it uses the far mics.


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## Marsdy (Jun 27, 2005)

I think Al has had a bit of a brain fart over on NS. The original demos DID sound like a total phasey mess!!!! Why would they have fixed them if they were OK?


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## Hardy Heern (Jun 27, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> http://www.webalice.it/fatis12/files/Mottetto2.mp3
> 
> This actually is the most convincing and best sounding of all the demos I heard - it seems to have more HF material.



I just knew that you'd come around to my way of thinking in the end!!  

Let the power flow over you Simon........

Frank


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## handz (Jun 27, 2005)

:roll: 

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_Admin Edit: FYI professional commercial use of pictures via multiple licenses is nothing new. Just to clarify, VI was informed that Bela D Media paid for the use of this artwork, offered to show the invoice and is legally entitled to use it commercially ..... FR_


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## choc0thrax (Jun 27, 2005)

So Simon when are you ordering your copy? 8)


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 27, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> So Simon when are you ordering your copy? 8)



Hmmm :lol:


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## choc0thrax (Jun 27, 2005)

I don't really know what your response means but i'll assume you are mildly sexually interested in me.


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## José Herring (Jun 27, 2005)

Okay, my final opinion is in. I've heard all the demos including Simons last demo. And, my official conclusion is........ I see children's choir pads in my near future.


Jose


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 27, 2005)

josejherring said:


> Okay, my final opinion is in. I've heard all the demos including Simons last demo. And, my official conclusion is........ I see children's choir pads in my near future.
> 
> 
> Jose



Just for the record, it wasn't a demo I did - someone else did it. I think he posted in the thread at NS?


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## lux (Jun 27, 2005)

btw, and a bit OT, Simon did u realize any music with that small Vst choirs? I was quite curious to hear it in action.

Luca


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## José Herring (Jun 27, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> josejherring said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, my final opinion is in. I've heard all the demos including Simons last demo. And, my official conclusion is........ I see children's choir pads in my near future.
> ...



I know. I've been to your website and heard your demos. I know what you're capable of. I never thought it was yours.

I should have said, "the demo that Simon posted that came from an anonymous source."

Jose


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 28, 2005)

Jose, it wasn't because I would be ashamed to have made the demo that I pointed it out But wouldn't want to take away credit from the composer - and of course not let anyone think I actually bought the library :twisted:


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 28, 2005)

lux said:


> btw, and a bit OT, Simon did u realize any music with that small Vst choirs? I was quite curious to hear it in action.
> 
> Luca



Sorry no. And I haven't bought it either. The demo has "beeps" coming every 5 seconds or something I doubt it will be superior to VOTA and EWQL choir, but for people on a budget it might do well


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## Spirit57 (Jun 28, 2005)

I've really tried to just control myself through this whole STUPID Soapy opera that 'simon' started. I personally could CARE LESS what simon thinks-Every single one of his posts in the past have been negative-(probably his outlook on life itself) so it really meant nothing to me that he took his valuable time to sit on here and write a bunch of basic TRASH. Especially-simon since you act like the typical arrogant know it all. Frankly it actually was surprising to me after the respect I've earned for Frederick to see this Ridiculous thread continue to spin into oblivion. My gosh-you all sound like a bunch of grannies gossiping in a beauty salon. I bet someone can listen to simon's stuff and critique it to death and basically say it's a pile of garbage too-but is that even worth doing..? Not even I-who would say simon's revenge motive was so pointless and BABYISH-would be so rudely blunt about any of his pieces. And Ned-? I mean?? Why in the world were you all the sudden in defense mode for simon? You BOTH have completely disrespected the class of VI and I have ZERO respect for you guys. I don't believe your Stupid reviews and your lame-a whines and moans about BelaD. I have no connection with BelaD-and even if you wrote this same exhausting thread about mr. beatz or horn samples from 1986-I would still think you're both lazy complainers about something you can ALWAYS make sound good. If Giovani is anything close to Diva-I know it can be made to sound very powerful. Sorry simon-your hard spent time to write up BelaD has been a joke to me. And Ned-you're a 'great' moderator-Nice goin.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 28, 2005)

Spirit57 said:


> And Ned-you're a 'great' moderator-Nice goin.



Gosh - thank you! :oops:


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## Niah (Jun 28, 2005)

Hey Ed,

I think simon and others were talking another vst-choir plugin ant not gio...

check it out here http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1352


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## choc0thrax (Jun 28, 2005)

Ed, Simon is saying that cheap VST choir thing demo has beeps not Giovani.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 28, 2005)

BTW why was this thread moved to off topic? It's about a sample library. Should I start calling this place N.S. Control? 8)


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