# Cinematic Studio Brass vs.Cinebrass



## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 22, 2018)

For those with both libraries, I would love to hear your thoughts between these 2 collections!


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## HBen (Dec 22, 2018)

Too early to start a brass comparison thread, why not wait for Audiobro MSB in Q1,2019. We are not far from that.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 22, 2018)

HBen said:


> Too early to start a brass comparison thread, why not wait for Audiobro MSB in Q1,2019. We are not far from that.


I’m sure we’ll have a comparison thread for that as soon as it’s released. 

I am curious through in this comparison, as I have the Cinebrass bundle, but am wondering what users of both think.


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## jbuhler (Dec 22, 2018)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> I’m sure we’ll have a comparison thread for that as soon as it’s released.
> 
> I am curious through in this comparison, as I have the Cinebrass bundle, but am wondering what users of both think.


It’s never too soon for a comparison thread by why not make it a general brass comparison thread rather than that specific one?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 22, 2018)

dont have cinebrass but own csb, too early for me..sound is good though, playabilitiy is a bit clunky..but since I am working so much with ibrass and sample modeling brass, I am used to the playability thing now and then those clunkyness really becomes so obvious. However, I think cinebrass is awesome also considering that it is 7 or 8 years old. Its like with hollywood brass, still a valuable product.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 22, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> It’s never too soon for a comparison thread by why not make it a general brass comparison thread rather than that specific one?


I feel that there are quite a few general brass threads already (such as this one: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/brass-which-one.76650/#post-4304215), and those who may be wondering the same questions as me could find this thread useful after some more input.  I’m all for a new general thread once more libs come out next year!


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## HelixK (Dec 22, 2018)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> I’m sure we’ll have a comparison thread for that as soon as it’s released.
> 
> I am curious through in this comparison, as I have the Cinebrass bundle, but am wondering what users of both think.



Yea I'd be interested in hearing direct comparisons between CB and CSB too.


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## JohnBMears (Dec 22, 2018)

Which patches would you like compared? I can play a few lines in both and post. I find them to be close in room sound (if you turn off the built in Default IR in CineBrass). The legato transitions in CSB sound to me like a midpoint between the exposed slurs in Berlin Brass and the more directed slurs in CineBrass. The dynamic crossfading is so so good in CSB that the library has so many more uses. The CineBrass 6horns is a weak point to me and the CSB 4horns make up for it. 

@ChrisSiuMusic From watching and listening to your stuff, I think you'll find CSB to straddle the fence between CB and BB. Since you have CSS, you'll also appreciate how well they work together. Honestly (with the exception of low dynamic part-writing) I could see myself doing without BB now that I have CSB. The superhero sound of the Trumpet Ensemble in CineBrass will always remain in my template, but much of the rest of CineBrass is also covered by CSB. 

In another thread I mentioned feeling like CSB is a reprogrammed and rescripted (and scaled down) Hollywood Brass for Kontakt.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 22, 2018)

JohnBMears said:


> Which patches would you like compared? I can play a few lines in both and post. I find them to be close in room sound (if you turn off the built in Default IR in CineBrass). The legato transitions in CSB sound to me like a midpoint between the exposed slurs in Berlin Brass and the more directed slurs in CineBrass. The dynamic crossfading is so so good in CSB that the library has so many more uses. The CineBrass 6horns is a weak point to me and the CSB 4horns make up for it.
> 
> @ChrisSiuMusic From watching and listening to your stuff, I think you'll find CSB to straddle the fence between CB and BB. Since you have CSS, you'll also appreciate how well they work together. Honestly (with the exception of low dynamic part-writing) I could see myself doing without BB now that I have CSB. The superhero sound of the Trumpet Ensemble in CineBrass will always remain in my template, but much of the rest of CineBrass is also covered by CSB.
> 
> In another thread I mentioned feeling like CSB is a reprogrammed and rescripted (and scaled down) Hollywood Brass for Kontakt.


That’s really interesting, thanks for sharing your thoughts John! Would you be able to do a slow and fast legato example for horn 1 in BB and solo horn in CSB? Also, I’ve heard others say the 6 Horns is weak in CB, but I find myself using it in every cue. I’m less of a fan of the 2 horns, because although they’re great for chords, they only have 1 type of short recorded. 

One of the main reasons I’m curious about this comparison is because I’m wondering if CSB can put forth the same level of dynamic heroism and inspiration that Cinebrass does? The Sony room does a lot to enhance the sound, so I’m curious about the natural ambience of Trackdown as well.


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## JohnBMears (Dec 22, 2018)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> That’s really interesting, thanks for sharing your thoughts John! Would you be able to do a slow and fast legato example for horn 1 in BB and solo horn in CSB? Also, I’ve heard others say the 6 Horns is weak in CB, but I find myself using it in every cue. I’m less of a fan of the 2 horns, because although they’re great for chords, they only have 1 type of short recorded.
> 
> One of the main reasons I’m curious about this comparison is because I’m wondering if CSB can put forth the same level of dynamic heroism and inspiration that Cinebrass does? The Sony room does a lot to enhance the sound, so I’m curious about the natural ambience of Trackdown as well.



Yeah there is no doubting how awesome the CineSound is. For me it is the scripting in the legato on the Horns. CineSamples said themselves in the update a few years ago that being their first library they had a learning curve. As a brass player who has spent so much time with Berlin Brass and now CSB, that envelope closing and opening on legato transitions sound pretty apparent to me. But the shorts of CineBrass and CineStrings are the some of the most precise out there. Compare it here to CSB.


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## kevthurman (Dec 22, 2018)

JohnBMears said:


> Yeah there is no doubting how awesome the CineSound is. For me it is the scripting in the legato on the Horns. CineSamples said themselves in the update a few years ago that being there first library they had a learning curve. As a brass player who has spent so much time with Berlin Brass and now CSB, that envelope closing and opening on legato transitions sound pretty apparent to me. But the shorts of CineBrass and CineStrings are the some of the most precise out there. Compare it here to CSB.



I think that video pretty much settles it haha!


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## novaburst (Dec 22, 2018)

JohnBMears said:


> Yeah there is no doubting how awesome the CineSound is. For me it is the scripting in the legato on the Horns. CineSamples said themselves in the update a few years ago that being there first library they had a learning curve. As a brass player who has spent so much time with Berlin Brass and now CSB, that envelope closing and opening on legato transitions sound pretty apparent to me. But the shorts of CineBrass and CineStrings are the some of the most precise out there. Compare it here to CSB.



Noticed 6 horns on CB and only 4 horns on CSB, can you give us a more equal comparison


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## prodigalson (Dec 22, 2018)

novaburst said:


> Noticed 6 horns on CB and only 4 horns on CSB, can you give us a more equal comparison



It's not really about the numbers, it's about the scripting.


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## novaburst (Dec 22, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> It's not really about the numbers, it's about the scripting.



Less horns will cut through more precise, also CB has adaptive legato, I feel when doing a comparison you need to perform with the library's best advantage, so you will say what has this library given me to get the best out of it, because that is how you will use it when doing your project some library's will not give good comparisons by just pressing the notes and comparing, you need to set your library up for best performance


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 22, 2018)

JohnBMears said:


> Yeah there is no doubting how awesome the CineSound is. For me it is the scripting in the legato on the Horns. CineSamples said themselves in the update a few years ago that being there first library they had a learning curve. As a brass player who has spent so much time with Berlin Brass and now CSB, that envelope closing and opening on legato transitions sound pretty apparent to me. But the shorts of CineBrass and CineStrings are the some of the most precise out there. Compare it here to CSB.



Thanks for the comparison. While I think the tone of CS is absolutely great I find (at least in your example) the transitions..so clunky and bumpy with Cinebrass. CSB handles that there imo much better, sounds so much more smooth. Is that something you can fix with programming or using different patches?


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## JohnBMears (Dec 22, 2018)

novaburst said:


> Noticed 6 horns on CB and only 4 horns on CSB, can you give us a more equal comparison



CineBrass only recorded 6Horns (well they did a 2 horn patch but it's kind of incomplete IMO).
CSB only recorded 4Horns and Solo Horn. If I'm comparing those two libraries there are no congruent patches for horns...

Also this is done with CineBrass Core 1.7 which has their own attempt at adaptive legato.


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## JohnBMears (Dec 22, 2018)

I'd add that those folks who are accustomed to Berlin Brass will find much more familiarity with the sound and scripting of CSB. Check out this example. While somewhat similar, The main difference you'll notice is that BB horn 1 is at mod wheel 127 and CSB is only halfway up on xfade. CSB is like the missing link to BB's dynamics. I imagine them working well together.


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## Sovereign (Dec 22, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Thanks for the comparison. While I think the tone of CS is absolutely great I find (at least in your example) the transitions..so clunky and bumpy with Cinebrass. CSB handles that there imo much better, sounds so much more smooth. Is that something you can fix with programming or using different patches?


Bumpy transitions is a problem IMO with much of the whole Cine line-up, including their strings. Which is unfortunate since better scripting could take it to a whole new level. Legatos are also not sampled "long-form" (meaning they do x-fades into every destination note).


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## Raphioli (Dec 22, 2018)

JohnBMears said:


> I'd add that those folks who are accustomed to Berlin Brass will find much more familiarity with the sound and scripting of CSB. Check out this example. While somewhat similar, The main difference you'll notice is that BB horn 1 is at mod wheel 127 and CSB is only halfway up on xfade. CSB is like the missing link to BB's dynamics. I imagine them working well together.



wow, they sound more similar than I've expected.
thx for the comparison.


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## JohnBMears (Dec 22, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Thanks for the comparison. While I think the tone of CS is absolutely great I find (at least in your example) the transitions..so clunky and bumpy with Cinebrass. CSB handles that there imo much better, sounds so much more smooth. Is that something you can fix with programming or using different patches?



Yeah I actually think that the older script for CineBrass 1.6 sounds better than the new 1.7. I know nothing about scripting, just have 26 years experience playing trombone and hearing brass instruments. I feel their new 'adaptive' rescript probably made the response time more agile with quick playing, but it creates a 'gap' for more moderate speed playing that I think sounds worse than the previous version. Attached is the older CineBrass script compared to CSB. As well as close cousin, Hollywood Brass 6 Horns.


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## Gingerbread (Dec 22, 2018)

Here's another direct comparison between CSB and Cinebrass, each playing the "Raiders March" out of the box, no extra EQ or reverb. (Note: the CSB clip is the one NoamL posted in another thread, hope he doesn't mind my re-posting it here.)

First is CSB, second is Cinebrass.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/raiders-csb-mp3.17344/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/raiders-cb-mp3.17345/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## novaburst (Dec 22, 2018)

JohnBMears said:


> I'd add that those folks who are accustomed to Berlin Brass will find much more familiarity with the sound and scripting of CSB. Check out this example. While somewhat similar, The main difference you'll notice is that BB horn 1 is at mod wheel 127 and CSB is only halfway up on xfade. CSB is like the missing link to BB's dynamics. I imagine them working well together.



Nice comparison but I am not hearing a difference in dynamic, more in volume


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## JohnBMears (Dec 22, 2018)

novaburst said:


> Nice comparison but I am not hearing a difference in dynamic, more in volume



Yeah my attempt was to show off their similarity at the same dynamic timbre. My point is that the video shows there is much more modwheel left to go up on the CSB patch and none on BB


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## RogiervG (Dec 22, 2018)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> That’s really interesting, thanks for sharing your thoughts John! Would you be able to do a slow and fast legato example for horn 1 in BB and solo horn in CSB?


Why do you bring in BB out of a sudden? You are asking for CSB and CineBrass.. not BB  don't derail your own thread hehe


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 22, 2018)

RogiervG said:


> Why do you bring in BB out of a sudden? You are asking for CSB and CineBrass.. not BB  don't derail your own thread hehe


True haha


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## Raphioli (Dec 22, 2018)

JohnBMears did mention BB in his first post, so I thought it was natural for you to become curious.
It isn't bad to be flexible.


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## BenG (Dec 22, 2018)

As a happy Cinebrass owner, this is a really interesting thread to hear the different in tone between the two libraries. Both sound great imo...


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## tehreal (Dec 22, 2018)

I own all 4 (CSB, CB, CBPro, Descant Horn) but I'll be reaching for CSB mostly from now on.

Would I still buy CB if I have CSB? No (CSB has better legato, repetition sampling and its wonderful UI). Would I still get CBPro? Maybe (has many FX and monster patches that CSB doesn't, plus 12 horn patches). Would I still get the Descant Horn? Absolutely.

They have different sounds that can factor into your decision but taking into account the price points of CSB and CB and the functionality you get in return, CSB wins out hands down.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 22, 2018)

JohnBMears said:


> Yeah there is no doubting how awesome the CineSound is. For me it is the scripting in the legato on the Horns. CineSamples said themselves in the update a few years ago that being their first library they had a learning curve. As a brass player who has spent so much time with Berlin Brass and now CSB, that envelope closing and opening on legato transitions sound pretty apparent to me. But the shorts of CineBrass and CineStrings are the some of the most precise out there. Compare it here to CSB.


Thanks for your help John. Will have to think hard about this one.


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## JohnBMears (Dec 22, 2018)

A quick mockup from The Santa Clause 3. Just saw it flipping channels and recalled that it was composed by George S. Clinton who is also from Middle Tennessee (like me). Strings and Brass are all Cinematic Studios.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/sc-with-csb-mp3.17350/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Raphioli (Dec 22, 2018)

JohnBMears said:


> A quick mockup from The Santa Clause 3. Just saw it flipping channels and recalled that it was composed by George S. Clinton who is also from Middle Tennessee (like me). Strings and Brass are all Cinematic Studios.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/sc-with-csb-mp3.17350/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Wish I could give multiple likes.
A bit early but Merry Christmas to you too!


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## AlexRuger (Dec 22, 2018)

I'm speaking from a somewhat left-field place, in that I'm an originally orchestral-first composer who's come to really embrace the fact that most projects don't have a budget for an orchestra. I actually really hate the sound of layering a small ensemble or solo player over a MIDI arrangement -- give me a full orchestra or give me death! -- so I've just stopped doing that, and have slowly arrived at a place farther and farther away from your standard orchestral sound. My sound has been heavily influenced by the fact that I treat virtual orchestras like oscillators and go from there -- often, they're fodder for what is best described as tonal sound design, in that I filter and process them just as one would a saw wave.

So, take my opinion with a gallon of salt.

CineBrass has been my main brass library for basically ever. Love it. Just like LASS, I know it well and can achieve just about anything I want with it. Sometimes it takes some serious tweaking (lots of print to audio then processing from there, sometimes quite heavily), but to be honest that should be expected; regardless of your goals re: realism, _a library is not an orchestra,_ and therefore a good amount of (audio) editing and processing post-MIDI programming should probably be expected if you want truly great results.

I'm still new to CSB, as are we all, but I like it a lot. Alex is doing amazing work. His libraries are among the most immediately playable I've come across, and that counts for a lot.

It's not _that _different than CineBrass, tone-wise, but is a bit more playable, a bit more realistic. I feel it can be best described as "CineBrass 2.0."

If you expect needing to do nothing more than MIDI programming: you'll probably be underwhelmed with either, but better served by CSB; a good rule of thumb is to go with the more modern one. Both are great, though. Difficult to truly compare. CineBrass is a classic, IMO, so no matter what, you can't really go wrong.


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## wst3 (Dec 23, 2018)

Thanks Alex, that was helpful.

CineBrass Core was my first brass "real" brass library, and it remains my favorite, in part because I really like their articulation control scheme, but mostly I really like the sound.

I was about to purchase CineBrass Pro when CSB was released. So I've been wrestling with the decision.

I won't give up on CB Core, but I think the next step i CSB - I find Alex's articulation management scheme to very usable too, I suspect I prefer Cinesamples approach mostly because I've used it longer? CSB provides solo and ensemble trumpets, trombones, horns, and a tuba - the basics. CB Pro has a little more, I especially like their sections, but I can fill in other instruments from other libraries. (Alex, if you are watching please add a solo piccolo trumpet, a trumpet in C, different sized sections, and flugelhorn, and and and... oh never mind.)


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## cloudesky (Dec 23, 2018)

wst3 said:


> Thanks Alex, that was helpful.
> 
> CineBrass Core was my first brass "real" brass library, and it remains my favorite, in part because I really like their articulation control scheme, but mostly I really like the sound.
> 
> ...



If you're still on the fence between which library to purchase CB or CSB. A lot of users are posting demos on the forum here called Cinematic Brass. I don't have CB but I did make a short demo/test with CSB.


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## HelixK (Dec 23, 2018)

CSB solo horn compared to Cinebrass Descant solo horn. I don't own CSB so I used @JohnBMears example.

0:00 CSB solo horn
0:11 Descant Horn matching dynamics...about 70% CC1
0:23 Descant Horn with some minor modwheel action

There is also some noodling at the end to show the noise present at higher notes.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/csb-solo-horn-vs-cbd-mp3.17369/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Scamper (Dec 23, 2018)

tehreal said:


> I own all 4 (CSB, CB, CBPro, Descant Horn) but I'll be reaching for CSB mostly from now on.



Considering that you know them all now and that CSB and CB are somewhat similar, how much would you feel the need to get CSB, if you only had CB? 
Sure, CSB seems to be a lot better in general, but I'm not sure, if I can justify it due to the similarities. What I certainly miss in CB is the Solo Tuba and Bass Trombone, so maybe it's just worth it for those.


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## tehreal (Dec 23, 2018)

Scamper said:


> Considering that you know them all now and that CSB and CB are somewhat similar, how much would you feel the need to get CSB, if you only had CB?
> Sure, CSB seems to be a lot better in general, but I'm not sure, if I can justify it due to the similarities. What I certainly miss in CB is the Solo Tuba and Bass Trombone, so maybe it's just worth it for those.



If you have the loyalty discount coupon I think it's worth it to replace CB Core. Otherwise you could just hold off for the next sale or something. My personal rule of thumb is "if I'm on the fence about getting a library, I don't get it."


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## I like music (Dec 24, 2018)

tehreal said:


> If you have the loyalty discount coupon I think it's worth it to replace CB Core. Otherwise you could just hold off for the next sale or something. My personal rule of thumb is "if I'm on the fence about getting a library, I don't get it."



You've already climbed the fence, which is the hard part. All you have to do now is _lean_ gently towards the neighbouring garden, and the rest will be taken care of... GO ON!


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## constaneum (Dec 24, 2018)

for me, I personally prefer cinematic brass over cinebrass core. Cinebrass' legato scripting isn't that great. cinematic brass on the other hand has great legato scripting with very clean sounding legato transition between notes. the shorts for cinematic brass are awesome as well (especially that repetition patch. works marvelously). The marcato patch sounds awesome as well.


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## star.keys (Dec 24, 2018)

My thoughts: I own BB, CB and HB... It is hard to match the tone of CB. BB for its flexibility (individual sampled instruments), room sound, warmth and lower dynamics, I'm considering purchasing CSB for its legato and the control on dynamic range. Some of these libraries are different and we need a mix of them, it's not like one thing or the other..


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## Consona (Dec 25, 2018)

Gingerbread said:


> Here's another direct comparison between CSB and Cinebrass, each playing the "Raiders March" out of the box, no extra EQ or reverb. (Note: the CSB clip is the one NoamL posted in another thread, hope he doesn't mind my re-posting it here.)
> 
> First is CSB, second is Cinebrass.
> 
> ...


I made a CB mock-up as well since I thought it can sound a little better with some tweaking applied. 

Trombones is the solo one from Pro, since it has better dyn range, trumpets is the ensemle from Core:


I used some highpass eq and noise reduction on the solo trombone since it's noisy out of the box, otherwise no effects. Dunno about the chords at the end, it's hard to nail that sound (I used some weird combination of articulations to make it sound better than just using the standard 1/2 or 1/4 or sus or whatever).

A version with some reverb and eq:

But seems CB sounds great on its own.

I noticed the first note of the theme is shorter in the original but..... (better not to compare it to the original anyway. )


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## kevthurman (Dec 25, 2018)

Consona said:


> I made a CB mock-up as well since I thought it can sound a little better with some tweaking applied.
> 
> Trombones is the solo one from Pro, since it has better dyn range, trumpets is the ensemle from Core:
> 
> ...




A valiant effort but CSB is clearly still miles ahead


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## Consona (Dec 25, 2018)

I think this could sound very good with SStB also, since there's no legato involved and it has a very nice tone and time machine patches, still waiting for demos from people who own it.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 25, 2018)

tehreal said:


> I own all 4 (CSB, CB, CBPro, Descant Horn) but I'll be reaching for CSB mostly from now on.
> 
> Would I still buy CB if I have CSB? No (CSB has better legato, repetition sampling and its wonderful UI). Would I still get CBPro? Maybe (has many FX and monster patches that CSB doesn't, plus 12 horn patches). Would I still get the Descant Horn? Absolutely.
> 
> They have different sounds that can factor into your decision but taking into account the price points of CSB and CB and the functionality you get in return, CSB wins out hands down.


But on that note, would you say that you can mix and blend CB with CSB? 
I also have CB, CBPro and CBDescant too... so I am curious


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## tehreal (Dec 25, 2018)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> But on that note, would you say that you can mix and blend CB with CSB?
> I also have CB, CBPro and CBDescant too... so I am curious



With the different mic positions and being able to EQ them separately they can mix fine. CSB is much drier so you would to need to add more room to it.

As I said before though CSB would replace CB for the most part (better programming and lot of the patches have more punch as well as better softer samples). I'd only add in CB bundle for its breadth of specialty patches (FX, chords, etc) as well as the 12 horn sound. And of course the Descant Horn is wonderful.


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## ionian (Dec 26, 2018)

HelixK said:


> CSB solo horn compared to Cinebrass Descant solo horn. I don't own CSB so I used @JohnBMears example.
> 
> 0:00 CSB solo horn
> 0:11 Descant Horn matching dynamics...about 70% CC1
> ...



Just to throw a curveball from left field, and just in case anyone's interested in the comparison, here's SampleModeling's "The French Horn" dry (as it naturally comes with no reverb) and with some reverb added (Reverb Foundry's "HD Cart" on the Medium Hall preset), played on a Yamaha WX5 wind controller.

I do love the sound of CSB though and I'm on the fence for a bit now and probably will take the plunge. It has a great sound.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/samplemodelnorvb-mp3.17423/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/samplemodelrvb-mp3.17424/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Consona (Dec 26, 2018)

My current position. I love the SStB sound, but dunno about the playability (but it has time machine patches). I love CSB's playability but I like SStB sound more. I have CB, but CSB really seems to be way better programmed with a way better legato, but CineBrass at least sounds great. But Sample modeling is actually the most playable one... And there's Cinesamples' 90s trumpets also... So... I don't know.

From what I've gathered a lot of brass passages is actually not a legato playing, so for slower things SStB could be enough while for everything else the great sounding shorts with TM patches should do the job. Just thinking out loud.  I really think Spitfire nailed the brass sound with the Studio Brass, I'm listening to the walkthroughs over and over.


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## Brian Nowak (Dec 31, 2018)

I've been hopping between CSB and CB (I own core and pro) playing around for the last couple of mornings before getting to composing for the day.

I like the tone of cinebrass and sometimes it's exactly the sound I want. It's got that American, punchy, Copland-esque sound. And the MGM stage sounds excellent. The tone is often very good. And there are certain places I will still use it.

But it's scripting is older and not all that great. Many things, like the legato, or the 1/4 and 1/2 shorts with "short release", tend to sound really stiff and mechanical if exposed or pushed beyond a very obvious comfort zone. Most of these issues can be passed off in a mix of other instruments where the brass is not being showcased, or in trailer tracks where you're doubling your brass with aggressive synths and it's more like sound design than anything else. But there's no hiding that legato scripting, which sounds more like 2 separate samples being taped together than actual legato. And also, the instruments in Core just simply don't have a full dynamic range. They top out before they really reach full forte. 

The problem I have is that other than some of the tonal characteristics, every time I play CSB after playing CB, CSB just kind of beats the everliving shit out of CB in terms of playability, responsiveness, and overall realism. Stuff that "kind of works" when I play it in CB just flows more effortlessly when I open CSB. The only thing I like better is how CB applies it's double/triple tonguing, which is pretty cool. The CSB "double tonguing" is more like a pickup to a short-ish note than actual double tongued playing. I understand why it behaves that way - the "repetition" articulation has to be followed up by a "staccatissimo" or longer articulation or you get a weird "sucking" sound as the tail is cut off. In earnest, I hope Cinematic Studios releases an update to clean that up - it would be nice to have an actual SHORT short note.


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## Consona (Dec 31, 2018)

Maybe CineSamples' 90s trumpets + horns (when released) will be the next step in playability with THE sound.


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## jbuhler (Dec 31, 2018)

Consona said:


> My current position. I love the SStB sound, but dunno about the playability (but it has time machine patches). I love CSB's playability but I like SStB sound more. I have CB, but CSB really seems to be way better programmed with a way better legato, but CineBrass at least sounds great. But Sample modeling is actually the most playable one... And there's Cinesamples' 90s trumpets also... So... I don't know.
> 
> From what I've gathered a lot of brass passages is actually not a legato playing, so for slower things SStB could be enough while for everything else the great sounding shorts with TM patches should do the job. Just thinking out loud.  I really think Spitfire nailed the brass sound with the Studio Brass, I'm listening to the walkthroughs over and over.


Yes, it is the sound of SStB that draws me as well.


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## Go To 11 (Jan 1, 2019)

JohnBMears said:


> Yeah there is no doubting how awesome the CineSound is. For me it is the scripting in the legato on the Horns. CineSamples said themselves in the update a few years ago that being their first library they had a learning curve. As a brass player who has spent so much time with Berlin Brass and now CSB, that envelope closing and opening on legato transitions sound pretty apparent to me. But the shorts of CineBrass and CineStrings are the some of the most precise out there. Compare it here to CSB.


That was beautifully revealing. Thanks!


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## kavinsky (Jan 1, 2019)

Cinebrass and Cinestrings are both great libraries, but I can’t disagree more on the precision of the shorts. Both of the libraries are extremely sloppy in terms of editing, attack speed of the samples.
Nowhere near CSS and CSB which are edited to perfection


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## Scamper (Jan 2, 2019)

Go To 11 said:


> Thanks so much - I'm really interested in the sound of the room, without reverb on either. How 'meaty' does the brass sound, what are the early reflections like etc. Just playing the same tune on both, with the opportunity to hear the softest and the loudest, would be amazing. Comparing Horns for Horns or Trumpets for Trumpets would be a great idea, so we can hear how the instruments compare 1 to 1. (As many as you have time for). Thank you!



Sorry for the delay. I'll answer your request from the CSB thread over here.

I've made a couple of comparisons for Cinematic Studio Brass and Cinebrass Core. I don't have CineBrass Pro, so it might be a bit of a different story, if you add it to the mix. It's all without reverb, pretty much out of the box.

*Instrument Comparisons*
First there are a bunch of comparison for single instruments of both libraries. They all cover the full dynamic range in the sustains. _*It's always Cinebrass first and CSB second.*_

For the horn ensembles, Cinebrass has horns a2 and a6, which you will hear in this order. Keep in mind, that the 2 horns only have the 1/8 shorts, the shortest ones, so it's not as versatile.
Also for the Tuba and Bass Trombone with CSB, I first put them together to compare to the Tuba+BassTrombone patch of Cinebrass and then they're also spearate for comparison.
I didn't want to compare the Solo Trombone of CSB against the Trombone ensemble of CineBrass so far, so I left this out.

*Ensemble Comparison*
To compare the sound of the whole ensemble playing together, I made a little brass track, again with both libraries, _*starting with Cinematic Studio Brass this time*_.
Here, I didn't try to max out the dynamics, but tried to keep them somewhat even mostly. CSB certainly has more room to go louder and more quiet.



*My Conclusion*
Generally I prefer Cinematic Studio Brass over CineBrass Core.

CSB sounds great, has full dynamic range p-ff(f) for every instrument, nice legatos, various shorts and other articulations. For me the solo tuba and solo bass trombone sounds great and were alone worth it, which I was missing with CineBrass and there's also the solo trombone.
It's also very consistent for every patch and it's all very flexible. Still, it cost me more time to deal with the articulations, dynamics and timings, but I think it's worth it.

Having both, I still don't find CineBrass Core redundant. The sound is great, especially in the solo trumpet and horn, but those are also more limited in dynamic range and tonal range. It's generally not that consistent and the dynamic range is a bit narrower, so it might not suit the low dynamics well.
I find it easy to program and for live playing using the sustain pedal and velocity based articulation switches, but this probably works mostly with this limited amount of articulations, but it's a bit leaner on the RAM. The legatos are also nice and there are lots of controls for legato speed, dynamic range and more.

Hope that helps.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cb-csb-solos-horntrumpet-mp3.17591/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cb-csb-trumpets-mp3.17592/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cb-csb-horns-2cb-6cb-4csb-mp3.17593/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cb-csb-trombones-mp3.17594/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cb-csb-tuba-basstrombone-mp3.17595/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Go To 11 (Jan 2, 2019)

Scamper said:


> Sorry for the delay. I'll answer your request from the CSB thread over here.
> 
> I've made a couple of comparisons for Cinematic Studio Brass and Cinebrass Core. I don't have CineBrass Pro, so it might be a bit of a different story, if you add it to the mix. It's all without reverb, pretty much out of the box.
> 
> ...




Wow, thank you very very much. This was more comprehensive and industrious than I could have hoped for, and I really appreciate your time. It's amazing how similar the rooms sound and they would blend very nicely. If I had to pick one I think I would go with the slightly smoother legatos and better dynamics of CSB. In isolation, I think the MGM stage is the nicer of the two in that it's slightly denser and warmer, whereas the Sydney stage is a touch brighter. That being said, once you play a piece as a whole (and yours was lovely!), CSB seems more lively and realistic, and the brightness of the room has an extra sparkle to it that may well be lacking in the Cinebrass. This is not what I expected given how muted I find the Cinematic Studio Strings, but that is another story. Thank you so much, again, and happy composing!


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## Hanu_H (Jan 2, 2019)

Yeah, I think the legatos and dynamics of the sustains sound better in CSB, but sometimes the shorts in CB are better. Still a good library after a many years, I wish they would bring back the old dynamics... :(

-Hannes


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## JohnBMears (Jan 2, 2019)

Great information everyone! I now know what my custom brass library would be...

1) Legato scripting, dynamic crossfades and GUI of CSB
2) Articulation list and individual-sampled-player aspect of Berlin Brass
3) Recorded in the Sony room (for that CineSamples Tone) + the trumpet ensemble patch & mix mic position
4) As an alternative to the 4Horn patch, I'd also invite the 6Horns patch from Hollywood Brass with the 2Horns patch for chording purposes.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jan 2, 2019)

JohnBMears said:


> Great information everyone! I now know what my custom brass library would be...
> 
> 1) Legato scripting, dynamic crossfades and GUI of CSB
> 2) Articulation list and individual-sampled-player aspect of Berlin Brass
> ...


I’d pick that up before you could say horn.


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## Consona (Jan 2, 2019)

The playability of CSB is very nice, things feel smoother than with CB, but I love the openness of CB's sound, CSB is not as dark as CSS, but it still feels like there's a blanket over the sound sometimes.


Scamper said:


>



The libraries sound quite similar here, but when the piece comes to the fanfarish part, CB has that nice brassiness while CSB sound is more restrainted. But CSB legatos are way better.

I think I'll wait for how 90s Retro Horns turn out.

@Scamper Thx for the demos!


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## Gerbil (Jan 2, 2019)

Very interesting. CB can be a bit of a trick to tame at times and it doesn't have a wide dynamic range without resorting to filters and trickery but I did slightly prefer it to CSB in scamper's demo. I can respect that CSB is faster and better programmed though and, judging by this example, there's really not much between the two here. The workflow factor and smoothness of operation is what makes CSB enticing for me.


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## erikradbo (Jan 2, 2019)

Thanks @Scamper! To avoid confusion, in your composition CSB is first, but in the other files it's CB first?


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## Scamper (Jan 3, 2019)

Hanu_H said:


> Still a good library after a many years, I wish they would bring back the old dynamics... :(


What was different about the old dynamics in CB? I'm just happy they brought the slider for the dynamic volume range.



Consona said:


> The libraries sound quite similar here, but when the piece comes to the fanfarish part, CB has that nice brassiness while CSB sound is more restrainted. But CSB legatos are way better.


I find the brassy CB sound more rounded and in a way more pleasant, but while CB is pretty much maxed there, CSB is at CC1/dynamics of 80-90, so it can go louder and brassier.



erikradbo said:


> Thanks @Scamper! To avoid confusion, in your composition CSB is first, but in the other files it's CB first?


Yes, that's right. I should have kept this consistent.


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## erikradbo (Jan 3, 2019)

JohnBMears said:


> Great information everyone! I now know what my custom brass library would be...
> 
> 1) Legato scripting, dynamic crossfades and GUI of CSB
> 2) Articulation list and individual-sampled-player aspect of Berlin Brass
> ...



And 5) Snappy shorts from CB rather than CSB


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## Consona (Jan 3, 2019)

Scamper said:


> I find the brassy CB sound more rounded and in a way more pleasant, but while CB is pretty much maxed there, CSB is at CC1/dynamics of 80-90, so it can go louder and brassier.


Really? Do you have the demo saved? Could you push CSB in the fanfarish part from 0:29 onward to the more brassier level?


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## Hanu_H (Jan 3, 2019)

Scamper said:


> What was different about the old dynamics in CB? I'm just happy they brought the slider for the dynamic volume range.


I think it was 1.6. update where they did some normalizing for the samples, before that it was just raw dynamics that was recorded. For me the dynamics sounded really good and natural and I still use the old instruments sometimes. The old legato and etc. are of course not on the bar with the new improved ones, but for simple dynamic things it works.

-Hannes


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## Scamper (Jan 3, 2019)

Consona said:


> Really? Do you have the demo saved? Could you push CSB in the fanfarish part from 0:29 onward to the more brassier level?


Ok, now comparing both just for this part with maxed dynamics at the end. Keep in mind, that I used CSB still out of the box, but had to push CineBrass by about 9-10dB to match the volume.

CineBrass first, then CSB.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cinebrass-vs-csb-highdynamics-mp3.17610/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## erikradbo (Jan 3, 2019)

Scamper said:


> Ok, now comparing both just for this part with maxed dynamics at the end. Keep in mind, that I used CSB still out of the box, but had to push CineBrass by about 9-10dB to match the volume.
> 
> CineBrass first, then CSB.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cinebrass-vs-csb-highdynamics-mp3.17610/][/AUDIOPLUS]



I want CSB to sound better, but here I find CB having the edge with it's rounder sound.


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## JohnBMears (Jan 3, 2019)

Scamper said:


> Ok, now comparing both just for this part with maxed dynamics at the end. Keep in mind, that I used CSB still out of the box, but had to push CineBrass by about 9-10dB to match the volume.
> 
> CineBrass first, then CSB.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cinebrass-vs-csb-highdynamics-mp3.17610/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Thank you!! CineBrass does sound great. Any chance to upload that midi file?


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## jamwerks (Jan 3, 2019)

Don't have it yet but CSB here sounds fantastic. I recently purchased Century Brass and that and CSB seemingly sound quite close.


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## Scamper (Jan 3, 2019)

erikradbo said:


> I want CSB to sound better, but here I find CB having the edge with it's rounder sound.


Right, I also like the rounder sound, but since this is really the top end of CSB, I see it more of an extra. Mostly, I will probably keep it around the level of the whole track with dynamic values of up to 100. I think in this range it also has more body, but yeah, CineBrass still has it's warm quality.



JohnBMears said:


> Thank you!! CineBrass does sound great. Any chance to upload that midi file?


Sure, but since I just had it, here's the midi file for the whole track (CSB part), if that's alright. The notes for Bass Trombone and Tuba are up an octave there because of CSB.


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## Consona (Jan 3, 2019)

Scamper said:


> Ok, now comparing both just for this part with maxed dynamics at the end. Keep in mind, that I used CSB still out of the box, but had to push CineBrass by about 9-10dB to match the volume.
> 
> CineBrass first, then CSB.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cinebrass-vs-csb-highdynamics-mp3.17610/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Thank you. Hm. They sound rather similar here.

I don't know what you guys call a "rounder" sound, but to me, CSB is the one that has a rounder tone, CB is more open at the high end. Just like CSS, CSB have this darker top end, is it due to the room or the recording equipment? Dunno, but CSSS sound quite normal.


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## JohnBMears (Jan 3, 2019)

Scamper said:


> Right, I also like the rounder sound, but since this is really the top end of CSB, I see it more of an extra. Mostly, I will probably keep it around the level of the whole track with dynamic values of up to 100. I think in this range it also has more body, but yeah, CineBrass still has it's warm quality.
> 
> 
> Sure, but since I just had it, here's the midi file for the whole track (CSB part), if that's alright. The notes for Bass Trombone and Tuba are up an octave there because of CSB.



Wow- thanks so much! Are you using the 1.6 or 1.7 version of CineBrass? Which mapping system for articulation changing do you prefer in CineBrass? Thank you again.


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## Scamper (Jan 3, 2019)

Consona said:


> I don't know what you guys call a "rounder" sound, but to me, CSB is the one that has a rounder tone, CB is more open at the high end. Just like CSS, CSB have this darker top end, is it due to the room or the recording equipment?



Interesting. At this maximum dynamic (considering CineBrass is a level below CSB), I perceive CineBrass to be rounder, meaning warmer and having more body, while CSB becomes super brassy and sharp without low end, but I would think this is just the nature of the brass sound at this dynamic for a recording, isn't it?



JohnBMears said:


> Wow- thanks so much! Are you using the 1.6 or 1.7 version of CineBrass? Which mapping system for articulation changing do you prefer in CineBrass? Thank you again.


Sorry, the MIDI was for CSB. I'll post the version for CineBrass as well. I'm using CineBrass 1.7 with the standard mapping, pedal for sustains and key velocity for short articulations.


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## Hanu_H (Jan 3, 2019)

Consona said:


> Thank you. Hm. They sound rather similar here.
> 
> I don't know what you guys call a "rounder" sound, but to me, CSB is the one that has a rounder tone, CB is more open at the high end. Just like CSS, CSB have this darker top end, is it due to the room or the recording equipment? Dunno, but CSSS sound quite normal.


Yes, CSB sounds a lot darker compared to CB. For my taste CB wins this one. It seems that if you are looking for a library for fanfares or really loud dynamics, CB is still hard to beat.

Edit: Actually listening it again, I think it's just some mid's that are really dominant in the CSB sound, making it sound more rounder. It still has the brassiness in the top end, but with CB it sounds more obvious.

-Hannes


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## Scamper (Jan 3, 2019)

JohnBMears said:


> Wow- thanks so much! Are you using the 1.6 or 1.7 version of CineBrass? Which mapping system for articulation changing do you prefer in CineBrass? Thank you again.


Here's the MIDI for Cinebrass.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jan 3, 2019)

erikradbo said:


> I want CSB to sound better, but here I find CB having the edge with it's rounder sound.


Agreed, CB has that stage sound that just opens up so beautifully.


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## JohnBMears (Jan 3, 2019)

Scamper said:


> Here's the MIDI for Cinebrass.



Awesome! Thanks. Using Mix mic position or something custom?


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## Scamper (Jan 3, 2019)

JohnBMears said:


> Awesome! Thanks. Using Mix mic position or something custom?



It was just the standard full mix.


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## kevthurman (Jan 3, 2019)

Scamper said:


> Ok, now comparing both just for this part with maxed dynamics at the end. Keep in mind, that I used CSB still out of the box, but had to push CineBrass by about 9-10dB to match the volume.
> 
> CineBrass first, then CSB.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cinebrass-vs-csb-highdynamics-mp3.17610/][/AUDIOPLUS]


I think I prefer CSB here. I think it could be warmed up a bit with reverb and sounds cleaner and more punchy to my ears.


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## Henu (Jan 4, 2019)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Agreed, CB has that stage sound that just opens up so beautifully.



I've said it before, and I say it again- willing to sell a kidney for the impulse. It's the best stage I've ever heard with orchestral samples.


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## Consona (Jan 4, 2019)

Hanu_H said:


> Yes, CSB sounds a lot darker compared to CB. For my taste CB wins this one. It seems that if you are looking for a library for fanfares or really loud dynamics, CB is still hard to beat.
> 
> Edit: Actually listening it again, I think it's just some mid's that are really dominant in the CSB sound, making it sound more rounder. It still has the brassiness in the top end, but with CB it sounds more obvious.
> 
> -Hannes


EQing the High dynamics demo, I think you are right. Cutting some mids (still trying to figure out the right frequencies) can help, plus adding some top end to open the sound (not much, like +1 dB maybe) and some reverb.
CB feels more spacious and the sound is great out of the box, but with that eq and reverb help, CSB sounds really good, together with that playability... Hmmm... F**k! I just want more money, that's what I need.  To buy them all.

Btw using frequency analyzer is fricking useless. Both libraries have so similar frequency profile that you basically have to eq it by ear.

But I think there's a possibility 90s legatos will be even tighter than CSB. From what I've heard from the Trumpets alone, the fast legato is really good (plus it has the auto borrow) and you can choose what attack type you want, so it's like CSB's marcato legato. The dyn range in CSB is wider, IMO.


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## Hanu_H (Jan 4, 2019)

Consona said:


> EQing the High dynamics demo, I think you are right. Cutting some mids (still trying to figure out the right frequencies) can help, plus adding some top end to open the sound (not much, like +1 dB maybe) and some reverb.
> CB feels more spacious and the sound is great out of the box, but with that eq and reverb help, CSB sounds really good, together with that playability... Hmmm... F**k! I just want more money, that's what I need.  To buy them all.
> 
> Btw using frequency analyzer is fricking useless. Both libraries have so similar frequency profile that you basically have to eq it by ear.
> ...


I think CSB is more complete than CB. It has wider dynamics and more articulations. Scripting is top notch as well. EQ:ing it per instrument would give you better results than EQ:ing the whole arrangement. I have a lot of brass libraries, but I don't have CSB. From the demos and videos I've heard, CSB is the best brass library for the buck at the moment. Just amazing library for the money. I would instantly buy it if I did't already have CineBrass, SM Brass, Adventure Brass, Metropolis Ark 1 Brass, Bravura Scoring Brass, EWQLSO Brass, etc...

-Hannes


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## Consona (Jan 4, 2019)

Hanu_H said:


> I would instantly buy it if I did't already have CineBrass, SM Brass, Adventure Brass, Metropolis Ark 1 Brass, Bravura Scoring Brass, EWQLSO Brass, etc...
> 
> -Hannes


Hehe.

...Yea, CSB seems to be the new top-tier standard when it comes to brass libraries. I'm kinda glad I didn't buy anything big during the current sales so I have money that can potentially go into CSB.


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## IdealSequenceG (Jan 4, 2019)

I still like CB, the MGM stage recording tone.


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## Consona (Jan 4, 2019)

IdealSequenceG said:


> I still like CB, the MGM stage recording tone.



Did you set the legato speed all the way up? Also I think there would not be that many legatos used in that line (and definitely not 12 horns, but that's beside the point ).


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## Consona (Jan 4, 2019)

Tried it. 12 horns patch opens up its brassiness way too early to play this. The 2 horns patch from Core is way more suitable.

90s Retro Horns will own this line.


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## marclawsonmusic (Jan 4, 2019)

Here is a comparison of CSB and CineBrass Core playing the opening to Back To The Future (first CSB, then CB). Both examples use the main mics (Dennis Sands on CB, Mix mic on CSB) and no processing.



I love the sound of CineBrass. I spent about the same amount of time programming each of these, but I know I could get a better result with CineBrass if I spent even more time. In my opinion, that's where CSB excels - it takes less MIDI programming to get a good result. Another difference if there are more articulations in CSB than CineBrass Core... of course, this is resolved if you also purchase CineBrass Pro. 

In my opinion, you really need CineBrass Pro in order to get good results with CineBrass. The solo instruments are great for layering (and softer dynamics - e.g. the solo trombones). With both Core and Pro, it is easier to cover some of the cracks that you here in my demo above. So again, it takes more programming to get a good result with CineBrass... totally my opinion of course.


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## Axel Caino (Jan 4, 2019)

Hi guys, i'm new here! Well, i have recently recorded the first EP of my band. We did it in a wide studio and with several orchestral instruments and 3 mics: 2 french horns (at the same time and individually), 2 trumpets (at the same time and individually), 1 trombone, 1 tuba, strings, ww, etc.

From my little experience (i have BB, CB Core and Pro), the main reason to decide wich library you want is what "thing" do you wanna get.

For example:
-if you are looking for realness with the sound, you should look for the library that sounds more like a real orchestra, real instruments with imperfections (i learned this after hearing all our arrangments and melodies played by real instruments). It is a hole new level, a lot of expressions and intermediate articulations that you literally cant obtain or maybe sound synthetic when twicking if the library simply does not have it.

-now, if you are looking for sound, is different. You should buy the library that goes best with your taste.



I mainly work with BB, the tone is simply amazing but if you compare it with CBS, this one is even better and more real (maybe because it's a close library), and seems to have better playability, legato transitions and sinergy between patches. Imo, CSB is amazing in terms of realism, because i realized that brass section sounds brassy and harsh, and that's maybe the reason you have to complete with good orchestration. I will be buying it soon.


CB has a nice sound but it is not real for me.

We also improved a LOT our mockups because now we know how should sound. And that's a thing to have in mind when programming, imagine or try to replicate some real orchestra playing the articulation/rythm you wanna get.

Sorry if i made some mistakes, my english is not perfect.


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## Architekton (Jan 4, 2019)

erikradbo said:


> I want CSB to sound better, but here I find CB having the edge with it's rounder sound.



CB sounds "rounder" because of the loads of reverb. If we could hear CSB with same amount reverb on it, it would sound light years better. It doesnt mean CB doesnt sound good, its good...but no where near CSB.


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## Consona (Jan 4, 2019)

Architekton said:


> CB sounds "rounder" because of the loads of reverb. If we could hear CSB with same amount reverb on it, it would sound light years better. It doesnt mean CB doesnt sound good, its good...but no where near CSB.


I downloaded a lot of demos posted here and on YT and put various eqs and reverbs on those. I still think CB sounds better.


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## Consona (Jan 4, 2019)

But the fact is, and @Hanu_H pointed that out, I can't eq the single instruments there, so maybe CSB could sound even better. But as for now, I think CSB has more solid, darker sound; CB has more open and lofty sound.


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## Architekton (Jan 4, 2019)

Consona said:


> I downloaded a lot of demos posted here and on YT and put various eqs and reverbs on those. I still think CB sounds better.



Wait, you put eq and reverb on demos that someone else produced? Or you got CSB and can speak for yourself?


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## Consona (Jan 4, 2019)

Do I write in mandarin?


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## Architekton (Jan 4, 2019)

Consona said:


> Do I write in mandarin?



Obviously is something mandarin in your process when you judge an sample library that you dont have, but you, as an expert, download god knows which demos (some with other instruments) and you eq and reverb those, than judge library by that? If yes, I am speechless.


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## Consona (Jan 4, 2019)

@Architekton Look. I stated, explicitly, I judge that library by what I hear in those demos. If you cannot process that and put into the consideration, then it's not my problem.
Plus everybody who posted a demo here said whether it's out of the box or processed.

And keep that condescending tone out of this board. Everybody else here behaves with such a decency, no need to change that.


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## Hanu_H (Jan 4, 2019)

Consona said:


> Hehe.
> 
> ...Yea, CSB seems to be the new top-tier standard when it comes to brass libraries. I'm kinda glad I didn't buy anything big during the current sales so I have money that can potentially go into CSB.


I don't think it's top-tier, it's bread and butter library. From the new libraries that are announced, only one I would think as top-tier library is Audiobro's Modern Scoring Brass. It's in the same league as Berlin Brass, Spitfire Symphonic Brass, etc. CSB is something different, it covers the 70-80% of your brass writing. It doesn't do everything but what it does it excels. It is also a pretty specific sound, more geared towards classical movie sound than modern. It has a lot of similarities with CB actually.

-Hannes


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## Consona (Jan 4, 2019)

Hanu_H said:


> I don't think it's top-tier, it's bread and butter library. From the new libraries that are announced, only one I would think as top-tier library is Audiobro's Modern Scoring Brass. It's in the same league as Berlin Brass, Spitfire Symphonic Brass, etc. CSB is something different, it covers the 70-80% of your brass writing. It doesn't do everything but what it does it excels. It is also a pretty specific sound, more geared towards classical movie sound than modern. It has a lot of similarities with CB actually.
> 
> -Hannes


Yea, I meant top-tier in the sense of playability and consistency, and even the dynamic range. I think overall it's in a rather good spot considering even Spitfire or Orchestral Tools libraries as alternatives.


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## Go To 11 (Jan 4, 2019)

Henu said:


> I've said it before, and I say it again- willing to sell a kidney for the impulse. It's the best stage I've ever heard with orchestral samples.


That's the thing with brass though, you can't just impulse it. Unless you record it, you don't get it. The room is everything. I learned this through countless hours trying to get some meat out of Sample Modelling. The information just isn't there.


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## Hanu_H (Jan 4, 2019)

Go To 11 said:


> That's the thing with brass though, you can't just impulse it. Unless you record it, you don't get it. The room is everything. I learned this through countless hours trying to get some meat out of Sample Modelling. The information just isn't there.


It really depends what kind of sound you are after. I have heard some amazing compositions done with SM Brass. Same thing with VSL. Drier libraries work better for non epic music I think, where the room is not such a big factor. But they give you other advantages that wet libraries don't. So it's best to use both and do what sounds best for the part.

-Hannes


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## Hanu_H (Jan 4, 2019)

Consona said:


> Yea, I meant top-tier in the sense of playability and consistency, and even the dynamic range. I think overall it's in a rather good spot considering even Spitfire or Orchestral Tools libraries as alternatives.


I agree it's on a good spot. I think most people would be happy with a library like this and don't need anything special from brass. I am one of those actually.

-Hannes


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## jononotbono (Jan 5, 2019)

I have CB and about to buy CSB. I’m just wondering about CB Pro. Probably going to buy that as well. Recommended? Think 2019 is the year for Brass Purchases for me!


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## N.Caffrey (Jan 5, 2019)

I'm torn between the 2. I have Cinebrass, and after having it for many years I'm a bit fed up with the sound and CSB is very appealing. On the other hand, as someone pointed out, CSB despite being better in probably everything could be a Cinebrass 2.0 in terms of sound (aimed more towards a classical sound). I've uploaded a small snippet with Cinebrass (Church reverb from Seventh Heaven and some Izotope/Neutron presets). Could someone with CSB have a go at it? And feel free to make it pretty with reverb. I've attached the midi as well. Cheers! 



[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cinebrass-mp3.17643/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jan 5, 2019)

N.Caffrey said:


> I'm torn between the 2. I have Cinebrass, and after having it for many years I'm a bit fed up with the sound and CSB is very appealing. On the other hand, as someone pointed out, CSB despite being better in probably everything could be a Cinebrass 2.0 in terms of sound (aimed more towards a classical sound). I've uploaded a small snippet with Cinebrass (Church reverb from Seventh Heaven and some Izotope/Neutron presets). Could someone with CSB have a go at it? And feel free to make it pretty with reverb. I've attached the midi as well. Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cinebrass-mp3.17643/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Are you just bored with the sound? Or does it not do what you want?


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## N.Caffrey (Jan 5, 2019)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Are you just bored with the sound? Or does it not do what you want?



Mm a bit of both I suppose. Cinebrass has been one of the first libraries I bought many years ago, so I'd like to hear a different brass sound, but I also see some of its limitation. @ricoderks made an amazing piece with CSB, and I think I wouldn't be able to achieve that realism with Cinebrass.


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## Scamper (Jan 5, 2019)

N.Caffrey said:


> Could someone with CSB have a go at it? And feel free to make it pretty with reverb. I've attached the midi as well. Cheers!
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/cinebrass-mp3.17643/][/AUDIOPLUS]



I took that into CSB and pretty much kept the MIDI as it is, but lowered the high dynamics a tad and added a bunch of reverb. Since you played chords, I wasn't sure, if you wanted the solo instruments or ensembles, so there is a version for both.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/csb-deco-mp3.17658/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## N.Caffrey (Jan 5, 2019)

Scamper said:


> I took that into CSB and pretty much kept the MIDI as it is, but lowered the high dynamics a tad and added a bunch of reverb. Since you played chords, I wasn't sure, if you wanted the solo instruments or ensembles, so there is a version for both.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/csb-deco-mp3.17658/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Thank you so much!


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## IdealSequenceG (Jan 7, 2019)

I tried solo horn.


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## IdealSequenceG (Jan 7, 2019)

2nd


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## JohnBMears (Jan 7, 2019)

IdealSequenceG said:


> 2nd




These are with CineBrass, right?


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## IdealSequenceG (Jan 7, 2019)

JohnBMears said:


> These are with CineBrass, right?


Yes, and an individual library.


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## JohnBMears (Jan 7, 2019)

IdealSequenceG said:


> Yes, and an individual library.



So by individual do you mean Core or Pro?

EDIT- Oh I see, Descant Horn, that's a separate product from them, I like that it still has that great CineBrass tone and that it seems to incorporate a nice dynamic range, but the more I play with CSB each day, the more I have fallen for the legato scripting. In fact, I also have 'recouped' my desire to have drier libraries, my Berlin Brass seems so darn distant and blurry compared to this new library. I am excited to see what CineSamples does with 90s horns....


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## Phil Harmony (Jan 8, 2019)

I simply love the french horn sound in CineBrass - it is the most symphonic horn sound that I know, like in a Richard Wagner ouverture


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## gjelul (Jan 8, 2019)

CineBrass still holds its ground imo. The only thing that I never understood is the GUI and the fonts Cinesamples uses, outdated and not easy to read. When it comes to the sound though, tough to beat.

Having both would be the way to go


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## Phil Harmony (Jan 11, 2019)

gjelul said:


> CineBrass still holds its ground imo. The only thing that I never understood is the GUI and the fonts Cinesamples uses, outdated and not easy to read. When it comes to the sound though, tough to beat.
> 
> Having both would be the way to go



That is true - Cinesamples GUIs are often ugly, especially the CineBrass, CineStrings and so. But I don't care about that as long as they sound great, what they do!


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## Gerbil (Jan 11, 2019)

I like Cinesamples' GUI. Everything's set out well, easy to read and understand.


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## gjelul (Jan 12, 2019)

Gerbil said:


> I like Cinesamples' GUI. Everything's set out well, easy to read and understand.


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## gjelul (Jan 12, 2019)

Phil Harmony said:


> That is true - Cinesamples GUIs are often ugly, especially the CineBrass, CineStrings and so. But I don't care about that as long as they sound great, what they do!



So, we're basically saying the same thing


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## jaketanner (Jan 26, 2019)

I know this is a bit off topic, but I was searching for brass libraries, and came across Century Brass...To me, sounds fantastic, and has way more articulations than Cinebrass. Is there anyone that can please give me the tale of the tape for Cinebrass compared to Century Brass? Thanks. This is mostly for cinematic scoring, nothing too classical. I would like the dynamics to be full range, pp-ff if that exists in either library. Thank you!!!


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## ionian (Jan 26, 2019)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Here is a comparison of CSB and CineBrass Core playing the opening to Back To The Future (first CSB, then CB). Both examples use the main mics (Dennis Sands on CB, Mix mic on CSB) and no processing.



The thing that kind of bothers me with CB is that on this particular example, every single note played by CB has this kind of "Bwah" on every single attack. It happens literally right at the beginning of every note and it's very fast. It kills the sound for me because it almost makes it sound like you're attacking every single note which isn't how a real player plays.

I don't own CB (or CSB for that matter, I use a Yamaha wind controller and Sample Modeling Brass) so I'm not sure if it's something that can be programmed out. Maybe it's just how this particular excerpt was played or programmed and maybe it's something that can be fixed with a keyswitch or velocity. I'm just stating what jumped out at me the the minute I heard the CB example. It's not present in the CSB example, which to me sounds more "fluid" because of that.


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## Brian Nowak (Jan 27, 2019)

ionian said:


> The thing that kind of bothers me with CB is that on this particular example, every single note played by CB has this kind of "Bwah" on every single attack. It happens literally right at the beginning of every note and it's very fast. It kills the sound for me because it almost makes it sound like you're attacking every single note which isn't how a real player plays.
> 
> I don't own CB (or CSB for that matter, I use a Yamaha wind controller and Sample Modeling Brass) so I'm not sure if it's something that can be programmed out. Maybe it's just how this particular excerpt was played or programmed and maybe it's something that can be fixed with a keyswitch or velocity. I'm just stating what jumped out at me the the minute I heard the CB example. It's not present in the CSB example, which to me sounds more "fluid" because of that.



No, that's just kind of how CB sounds. It's a tongued/accented start to the notes. The legato transitions all have a slight tongued transition as well. 

In earnest - I know a lot of people have used cinebrass forever and love the sound. But at this point I'd say Cinebrass is simply outclassed by better sampling and scripting that has come along. 

Yes, you can get workable results with Cinebrass. Yes, it has a nice overall tone. But it really is not all that consistent (certain articulations have different volumes/dynamic ranges/etc), the instruments have fairly limited dynamic range (core doesn't really go brassy loud), and there's concessions all over between core and pro. There's also a lot of warbly notes, a few tuning issues, and pro has some serious noise floor problems. There's also a lot of inconsistency in volume from note to note on the pro instruments. 

Given how much more dedicated (and affordable) dedicated brass libraries have come out recently, and how many are set to come out over the next year, I'd say Cinebrass sits pretty far behind in terms of the competition. At this point other than a couple standout instruments I feel like Cinebrass was a mistake purchase on my end. It just won't see much use because I have more flexible, easier tools at my disposal.

It would be wicked if they had an update that took care of these things. But I think at this point Cinesamples would have to make an entirely new library with better sampling to really compete with what is available.


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## jaketanner (Jan 27, 2019)

Brian Nowak said:


> No, that's just kind of how CB sounds. It's a tongued/accented start to the notes. The legato transitions all have a slight tongued transition as well.
> 
> In earnest - I know a lot of people have used cinebrass forever and love the sound. But at this point I'd say Cinebrass is simply outclassed by better sampling and scripting that has come along.
> 
> ...



How do you feel about Century Brass? I’ve been looking into it, and I think it’s much more flexible than CB, and the cross fades sound great. Also has a wider dynamic range. 

I’d love to get an opinion on it. Thanks


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## Brian Nowak (Jan 27, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> How do you feel about Century Brass? I’ve been looking into it, and I think it’s much more flexible than CB, and the cross fades sound great. Also has a wider dynamic range.
> 
> I’d love to get an opinion on it. Thanks



I don't touch 8dio after getting one of their pianos. It is terribly scripted, terrible to play and mix, and the interface is god awful to work with. Turned me off to anything they do.


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## jaketanner (Jan 27, 2019)

Brian Nowak said:


> I don't touch 8dio after getting one of their pianos. It is terribly scripted, terrible to play and mix, and the interface is god awful to work with. Turned me off to anything they do.



I know what you mean. But aren’t the pianos a bit older? I only have their 1928, and I’m hoping that Century Brass is using their latest GUI. I’ve tried their try pack and seemed pretty good.


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## Brian Nowak (Jan 27, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> I know what you mean. But aren’t the pianos a bit older? I only have their 1928, and I’m hoping that Century Brass is using their latest GUI. I’ve tried their try pack and seemed pretty good.



Don't know and I'll likely never know. There are too many outright complaints about the inconsistencies in their libraries for me to bite. Might get more balanced opinions on the thread about century brass, though:

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/8dio-century-brass.46960/page-14


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## jaketanner (Jan 27, 2019)

Brian Nowak said:


> Don't know and I'll likely never know. There are too many outright complaints about the inconsistencies in their libraries for me to bite. Might get more balanced opinions on the thread about century brass, though:
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/8dio-century-brass.46960/page-14



Would you suggest SF Studio Brass? I've been going back and forth with this one myself. Also, between pro version and regular. I can't afford to make the wrong choices as this will be it for a while, then I'm stuck with it..LOL


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## Brian Nowak (Jan 27, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Would you suggest SF Studio Brass? I've been going back and forth with this one myself. Also, between pro version and regular. I can't afford to make the wrong choices as this will be it for a while, then I'm stuck with it..LOL



I don't have much experience with those libraries, sorry. People mostly seem to be liking it, from what I'm seeing. Pretty expansive. But spitfire has a very different workflow than other stuff, so you should probably do some research on their products themselves.

Finally, no matter what you do, you should wait for a sale.


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## jaketanner (Jan 27, 2019)

Brian Nowak said:


> I don't have much experience with those libraries, sorry. People mostly seem to be liking it, from what I'm seeing. Pretty expansive. But spitfire has a very different workflow than other stuff, so you should probably do some research on their products themselves.
> 
> Finally, no matter what you do, you should wait for a sale.



I have SF Chamber and Albion so I’m familiar with the workflow. And I get an EDU 40% off. Thanks for your feedback.


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## constaneum (Jan 27, 2019)

Brian Nowak said:


> I don't touch 8dio after getting one of their pianos. It is terribly scripted, terrible to play and mix, and the interface is god awful to work with. Turned me off to anything they do.



Ever since i've gotten their Adagio series, I sort of not wanting to opt for 8dio for orchestral stuffs. Even though they have recorded the sounds beautifully, there are a few flaws in that library such as out of tune sounds and other noises which they've said it's intended for realism. Those really turn me off from purchasing anymore of their orchestral products. Kinda sad even though i like other patches as well as the sound recorded in general. Patch like the spiccato feathered sounds beautiful. I wonder whether Century Strings have this issues or not ?


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## jaketanner (Jan 27, 2019)

constaneum said:


> Ever since i've gotten their Adagio series, I sort of not wanting to opt for 8dio for orchestral stuffs. Even though they have recorded the sounds beautifully, there are a few flaws in that library such as out of tune sounds and other noises which they've said it's intended for realism. Those really turn me off from purchasing anymore of their orchestral products. Kinda sad even though i like other patches as well as the sound recorded in general. Patch like the spiccato feathered sounds beautiful. I wonder whether Century Strings have this issues or not ?



True their older libraries have not been updated or really worked on...However, their attempt at reimagining the Adagio/Agitato series with Anthology was a fail in my opinion. Something went awry with the sound, and just thinned out. However...Century Brass is supposed to be a newer library, and a labor of love...so I am hoping that it's a killer.


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## marclawsonmusic (Jan 28, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> True their older libraries have not been updated or really worked on...However, their attempt at reimagining the Adagio/Agitato series with Anthology was a fail in my opinion. Something went awry with the sound, and just thinned out. However...Century Brass is supposed to be a newer library, and a labor of love...so I am hoping that it's a killer.



Hi Jake, what kind of music are you trying to write?


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## Consona (Jan 29, 2019)

90’s Retro Trumpets as on sale.


Brian Nowak said:


> No, that's just kind of how CB sounds. It's a tongued/accented start to the notes. The legato transitions all have a slight tongued transition as well.
> 
> In earnest - I know a lot of people have used cinebrass forever and love the sound. But at this point I'd say Cinebrass is simply outclassed by better sampling and scripting that has come along.
> 
> ...


90’s Retro Trumpets are on sale. Maybe that's like the Cinebrass 2.0 we are talking about? Dunno.


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## jaketanner (Jan 29, 2019)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Hi Jake, what kind of music are you trying to write?



Hi. I write cinematic orchestral music. Not quite classical, but a good variety. From what I hear, Century Brass is a good all around work horse, which is what I need I think as my main library.


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## Lassi Tani (Jan 29, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Hi. I write cinematic orchestral music. Not quite classical, but a good variety. From what I hear, Century Brass is a good all around work horse, which is what I need I think as my main library.



What about Audiobro's MSB? I've halted all my plans for new brass library purchases until I hear demos and walkthroughs of MSB.


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## jaketanner (Jan 29, 2019)

sekkosiki said:


> What about Audiobro's MSB? I've halted all my plans for new brass library purchases until I hear demos and walkthroughs of MSB.



Well, I can get Century Brass for 50% off at the moment. So I doubt MSB will be anywhere near that. Lol.


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## Lassi Tani (Jan 29, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Well, I can get Century Brass for 50% off at the moment. So I doubt MSB will be anywhere near that. Lol.



Well that's true.


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## fretti (Jan 29, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Well, I can get Century Brass for 50% off at the moment.


Have I missed something or how would you get 50% off atm?


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## marclawsonmusic (Jan 29, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Hi. I write cinematic orchestral music. Not quite classical, but a good variety. From what I hear, Century Brass is a good all around work horse, which is what I need I think as my main library.



I cannot comment on Century Brass, unfortunately. But I have Cinebrass (Core and Pro) as well as Cinematic Studio Brass. For cinematic music, I think either of those could meet your needs, but for my part I recently replaced Cinebrass with CSB.


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## DANIELE (Jan 29, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Hi. I write cinematic orchestral music. Not quite classical, but a good variety. From what I hear, Century Brass is a good all around work horse, which is what I need I think as my main library.



Why don't you look at Infinite Brass?


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## miguel88 (Jan 29, 2019)

marclawsonmusic said:


> I cannot comment on Century Brass, unfortunately. But I have Cinebrass (Core and Pro) as well as Cinematic Studio Brass. For cinematic music, I think either of those could meet your needs, but for my part I recently replaced Cinebrass with CSB.


I could hear a few CSB naked demos and I found that has too much phase sound on trumpets and bass trombone especially on the close mics, what do you think? I have css and i m doubting about get csb


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## jaketanner (Jan 29, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> Why don't you look at Infinite Brass?



Who makes that?


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## DANIELE (Jan 29, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Who makes that?



Aaron Venture: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/aaron-venture-infinite-brass-update-v1-2-is-live.77050/

I'm loving this library, especially for the playability. He's doing great improvements too.


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## jaketanner (Jan 29, 2019)

miguel88 said:


> I could hear a few CSB naked demos and I found that has too much phase sound on trumpets and bass trombone especially on the close mics, what do you think? I have css and i m doubting about get csb



Speaking of phasing. Century brass has a lot of it on their ensemble patches close Mics. The rest are fine, but the close Mics, listening to their walkthrough, sounds very phasy. I think most of their close Mics don’t sound too good. But as an addition to their overall sound, it all works.


DANIELE said:


> Aaron Venture: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/aaron-venture-infinite-brass-update-v1-2-is-live.77050/
> 
> I'm loving this library, especially for the playability. He's doing great improvements too.



Cool, I’m going to check this out once I get home. Thanks.


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## boxheadboy50 (Jan 29, 2019)

miguel88 said:


> I could hear a few CSB naked demos and I found that has too much phase sound on trumpets and bass trombone especially on the close mics, what do you think? I have css and i m doubting about get csb





jaketanner said:


> Speaking of phasing. Century brass has a lot of it on their ensemble patches close Mics. The rest are fine, but the close Mics, listening to their walkthrough, sounds very phasy. I think most of their close Mics don’t sound too good. But as an addition to their overall sound, it all works.


You can check out this thread in regard to close mic phasing. Might give you some more info? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/cinematic-studio-brass.59957/page-49#post-4338703


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## jaketanner (Jan 29, 2019)

boxheadboy50 said:


> You can check out this thread in regard to close mic phasing. Might give you some more info? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/cinematic-studio-brass.59957/page-49#post-4338703



Yes, there are phasing issues with multiple players when not perfectly tuned...I guess I am used to recording 2 players and locked as close as possible to pitch. I have not done orchestral recordings, and this makes sense then. Thanks.


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## N.Caffrey (Jan 29, 2019)

@ChrisSiuMusic did you get the library in the end?


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## jaketanner (Feb 1, 2019)

fretti said:


> Have I missed something or how would you get 50% off atm?



I entered the xmas scoring contest, and it was a consolation prize for all entrants.


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## jaketanner (Feb 2, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> Why don't you look at Infinite Brass?



Thanks, I will.


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## Pancake (Nov 23, 2019)

i want to play mutiple legatos, i saw in cinebrass you can, is it possible in Cinematic?


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## JohnBMears (Nov 23, 2019)

Pancake said:


> i want to play mutiple legatos, i saw in cinebrass you can, is it possible in Cinematic?



There is not polyphonic legato in CSB.


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## Pancake (Nov 23, 2019)

ok thank you


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## Mike Fox (Nov 23, 2019)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Here is a comparison of CSB and CineBrass Core playing the opening to Back To The Future (first CSB, then CB). Both examples use the main mics (Dennis Sands on CB, Mix mic on CSB) and no processing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cinebrass sounds SO much better to me in that clip. That stage probably has a lot to do with it.


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## marclawsonmusic (Nov 23, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> Cinebrass sounds SO much better to me in that clip. That stage probably has a lot to do with it.



Yes but took twice as long! I agree it is more in line with the original - nothing like that Sony stage!!! But from a programming perspective it was definitely more challenging.

I love Cinesamples for sure.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 23, 2019)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Yes but took twice as long! I agree it is more in line with the original - nothing like that Sony stage!!! But from a programming perspective it was definitely more challenging.
> 
> I love Cinesamples for sure.


I think the payoff was worth it. How long did it take?


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## marclawsonmusic (Nov 24, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> I think the payoff was worth it. How long did it take?



Thanks, Mike. I can't exactly remember, but I think it was a weekend project - maybe a couple hours each day fiddling. It was fun!


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## Damarus (Nov 24, 2019)

Welp - I was set on CSB..


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## marclawsonmusic (Nov 24, 2019)

Damarus said:


> Welp - I was set on CSB..



I actually replaced Cinebrass with CSB... CSB is my go-to brass library at the moment. It's just so easy to work with. 

I like the brightness of Cinebrass too, but you can still get a great orchestral brass sound from CSB. I did this track with CSS + CSB and was happy with the result.


Cheers,
Marc


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## Damarus (Nov 24, 2019)

marclawsonmusic said:


> I actually replaced Cinebrass with CSB... CSB is my go-to brass library at the moment. It's just so easy to work with.
> 
> I like the brightness of Cinebrass too, but you can still get a great orchestral brass sound from CSB. I did this track with CSS + CSB and was happy with the result.
> 
> ...




Very nice! Thank you. I love both Cinebrass and CSB. Just no need to get both at the moment so I need all the convincing before the sale tomorrow.


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## wst3 (Nov 24, 2019)

I'm not sure I think it should be Cinematic Studio Brass vs CineBrass - they are two different libraries.

When I am using Cinesamples libraries I get into a groove of sorts, and their articulation management approach makes complete sense. Then I spend time away from them and it is confusing again, but eventually I get back to it.

On the other hand the entire Cinematic Studio series is just dead simple to use, probably my favorite in terms of ease of use, but that comes with a price, of sorts - you are slightly limited in the articulations that are available. It is not a huge deficit, and honestly I've yet to work on a project where I said "gee, I wish CSB did X"

Then there is the sound - they sound different, neither one is better or worse, sometimes I want the Cinesamples Sony Soundstage sound, sometimes I don't.

And not to further complicate things, but I also use Chris Hein Orchestral Brass, not as often as the other two, probably because it is a little more difficult - for me - to get around. I fell in love with his Horns, and the Orchestral Brass does not disappoint. The sound is once again different, that's all.

When it comes to pop/rock/big band stuff I still use CHH, but I am also using Glory Days. And again it is two different approaches to articulations, and two different sounds.

I suspect one day there will be a one-size-fits-all brass library that sounds perfect for every application, and is simple to use, and includes every possible articulation... well, maybe not???

All this because I was working with the three orchestral libraries this weekend - trying to record brass choir arrangements of Christmas Carols, and it was fascinating the different directions I traveled depending on the library I was using.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 24, 2019)

I think i just prefer the overall tone of CB. It just sounds so alive and energetic to me. 

...and the current 50% off is crazy tempting right now!


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## Damarus (Nov 24, 2019)

Dang I was hoping it was going to be easy!


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## 5Lives (Nov 24, 2019)

I find CineBrass significantly more limited in articulations than CSB. And as somebody else mentioned earlier, the legato notes have this weird accent / tongued sound in the front that you can’t remove and makes it sound far less smooth and connected than CSB.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 24, 2019)

5Lives said:


> I find CineBrass significantly more limited in articulations than CSB. And as somebody else mentioned earlier, the legato notes have this weird accent / tongued sound in the front that you can’t remove and makes it sound far less smooth and connected than CSB.


I just wish i liked the tone of CSB. I'm just not feeling it. Sounds way too small for my liking. Then again, it is "studio" brass.


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## Frank1985 (Nov 30, 2019)

Can anyone offer their opinion on CSB vs the Aaron venture infinite version? The demos of the former seem to be baked in verb so it’s hard to make a true comparison.

How dry does Cinematic studio go with the close mics engaged, and do the samples work well with spitfire libs?


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