# Brushed drum kits - what's the best?



## DSmolken (Jan 5, 2017)

What's the best currently available brushed drum kit, especially when it comes to stirs? That seems like a tricky articulation to sample...


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## storyteller (Jan 5, 2017)

I really like XLN's Addictive Drums 2 with the modern Jazz Brushes expansion pack. I'm curious to see other's answers though.


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## Polkasound (Jan 5, 2017)

I love the sound of NI's Abbey Road Vintage Drummer, but I don't recommend it for users of Cubase due to VST performance spikes. In my opinion, brush stirs need to be tempo-synced to sound right, but I don't know of any drum libraries that go that far.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jan 5, 2017)

I'm a big fan of the VSL Jazz Drums. the overall sound is very classy, very pure and down-to-earth and just a joy to work with. There's 2 mic positions that can be blended, the dynamics are great and the brushed articulations are pretty deep and extensive. A lot of people seem to be totally sleeping on this one. Great library.


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## maclaine (Jan 5, 2017)

Straight Ahead Samples has a great brush kit with tempo synced swirls in a few different meters. The kit is definitely tuned for jazz stuff, but I've been able to make it work with non-jazz music. You can also just use the swirl patterns and try to mix/blend it with other libraries for the rest of the kit, which I've also had success with. There's also the added bonus of the kit played with mallets.

http://straightaheadsamples.com/shop-2/sa-brushes-mallets/

If you have Superior Drummer, the Brushes expansion is also terrific. Less jazzy, but obviously requires the buy in of having SD first.

https://www.toontrack.com/product/roots-sdx-brushes-rods-mallets/

I've use both of these and highly recommend them.


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## ken c (Jan 5, 2017)

Soniccouture has a free one. just downloaded to try it out. http://www.soniccouture.com/en/products/p40-brush-kit/


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## DSmolken (Jan 6, 2017)

Thanks, all. Interesting that there are so many different favorites, including one which I didn't even know existed (VSL). I'll check these out in more detail.

I have the Soniccouture one (and also the free Pettinhouse one), and I'm working on a small free kit right now - so far it's just kick and snare recorded, planning to add hi-hat and ride for a 4-piece and leave it at that. So, I want to check out what articulations the best pro kits include, and how they handle stirs.

Also spent some time watching drum tutorials for research purposes.


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## zeng (Jan 6, 2017)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I'm a big fan of the VSL Jazz Drums. the overall sound is very classy, very pure and down-to-earth and just a joy to work with. There's 2 mic positions that can be blended, the dynamics are great and the brushed articulations are pretty deep and extensive. A lot of people seem to be totally sleeping on this one. Great library.


Hey Jimmy, are there any midi loops in VSL Jazz Drums? If not are you writing your drums note by note or using midi loops?


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jan 6, 2017)

zeng said:


> Hey Jimmy, are there any midi loops in VSL Jazz Drums? If not are you writing your drums note by note or using midi loops?



I'm not sure if there are any loops, to be honest. The product page on the VSL website says "Includes MIDI drum loops for the internal APP sequencer of _Vienna Instruments PRO_." But I wouldn't know how to access them - I never used that sequencer thing.

I do my own drum tracks note by note and spend way too much time obsessing over it. I love drums.


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## mc_deli (Jan 6, 2017)

SD2 brushes here but there was a thread a couple of months ago where someone posted a mindblowing track with Straight Ahead. Turned me right on (to it)..,


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## Saxer (Jan 6, 2017)

I also like jazz drums but the only ones I like are XLN Jazz Brushes and VSL too. But VSL are the only ones which can do convincing swiped non-ballad time keeping. They simply have sweeps with a little attack at the beginning and stop when you release the key. All other brush sweeps I found are brushed one-shots (like cymbals: Ffffffffffffff...) Some of them can be stopped by a second note (hi hat mode) but it's hard to play the simple TffffTap-T-TfffTap.


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## mc_deli (Jan 6, 2017)

Here is that track by @cAudio 
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/upright-bass-preference.57889/page-2#post-4026700


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## DSmolken (Jan 6, 2017)

Thanks again. Playable brush sweeps are especially interesting to me, and it looks like Straight Ahead, VSL and Addictive Drums all have different ways of trying to make those work.

It's not a terribly complicated sound or technique, but it's sustained yet unpitched - quite different from either drum hits or other sustained instrument sounds which we're used to sampling, so figuring out a good way to sample and control it is a challenge.


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## AllanH (Jan 6, 2017)

Like Storyteller, my favorite brushed kit it XLN's Addictive Drums 2 modern Jazz Brushes. The associated midi pack is also excellent.


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## cAudio (Jan 6, 2017)

I have used Abbey Road Vintage Drums' midi grooves for more traditional, straight ahead brushes. Project Sam's Swing also have a brush set that work great for certain tracks, but probably not the best for complex , authentic jazz playing. I also have Addictive Drums' brush set but find it difficult to program believable swing tracks with it but have used it more for country tracks.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 6, 2017)

AllanH said:


> Like Storyteller, my favorite brushed kit it XLN's Addictive Drums 2 modern Jazz Brushes. The associated midi pack is also excellent.




Me too.


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## Dietz (Jan 6, 2017)

Being the engineer who set up the recording sessions for the VSL Jazz Drums back then I'm most certainly a very biased source. Let me just add that for me they are one of VSL's most underrated instruments. 



zeng said:


> Hey Jimmy, are there any midi loops in VSL Jazz Drums? If not are you writing your drums note by note or using midi loops?



Vienna Instrument Pro's built-in APP indeed offers quite a few pre-fabricated, but completely editable basic patterns (programmed by VSL's drums- and Logic-guru Marnix Veenenbos). They can be triggered by MIDI commands.









There are several video tutorials which go into the details of APP: -> http://www.vsl.co.at/en/Products/Software#!Video_Demos (scroll down to the VI Pro section).

In addition, there are some readily set-up sessions available for Vienna Ensemble 5/6 in the "Tutorials and Templates"-download area of VSL's website.

HTH,


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## synthpunk (Jan 6, 2017)

I'm very blessed to have Steve Gadd as a neighbor and friend. Although I think I owe him about 6 lunches now


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## FGBR (Jan 6, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> I'm very blessed to have Steve Gadd as a neighbor and friend. Although I think I owe him about 6 lunches now



Hard to beat that


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## Iskra (Jan 6, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> I'm very blessed to have Steve Gadd as a neighbor and friend. Although I think I owe him about 6 lunches now


Can we crash at your place sometime?


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## stigc56 (Jan 6, 2017)

I have tried so many, but I find XLN Addictive drums the best and the MIDI packs are excellent too!


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## DSmolken (Jan 6, 2017)

That seems like the most popular choice... I'll have to look into it more deeply. Especially how the stirs might be playable using an electronic drum kit as a controller.


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## re-peat (Jan 7, 2017)

If *this* and/or *this* are telling examples of what the AD2 brushes sound and behave like — and these being official demo’s, I assume they must be — I have to say I’m a bit puzzled by the widespread enthusiasm for this product. Not bad perhaps, but definitely not the sort of brushes I would choose to work with.

The VSL’s, on the other hand, sound rather good and versatile to me. I never really liked the kit as such — its rather unsuitable-sounding, strangely un-jazzy ride cymbals have always made the decision not to buy it a very easy one — but those brushes certainly seem capable of quite a lot.

Whenever I need jazzy brush-work, the Straight Ahead kit is often the one I reach for first. Most of the time with, to my ears, decent results. Could do with some fresh, additional material though.

I’m also pretty pleased with the *‘Historic Jazz’* kit (*) from *Premier Soundfactory*. Well, more than that: these are currently my go-to virtual brushes. It's not a very 'deep' library — there's only a handful of brush samples — but its sound is very close to how I like brushes to sound and drumtracks made with these samples mix amazingly well (a feature which it shares with all the libraries from this developer that I'm familiar with).
As with most of those Premier libraries, the patches need quite a bit of editing and re-programming — Premier’s Kontakt-programming skills verge on the non-existent, I’ve come to think — but with that extra bit of attention, these drums become capable of *http://users.telenet.be/re-peat/PremierBrushes.mp3 (something like this)* which, I think, is not half bad as sampled brushes go. (No sampled performances or loops in this example, everything is programmed with single-hit samples.) 
Not very well suited for really slow brush-work though, but then, I don't know of any library that is.

(*) Not entirely sure if it's still available as a separate product, because from the looks of it, Premier appears to have bundled all its existing drum libraries, augmented with a truckload of new stuff, into one big single product: *Drum Tree*. 

_


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## DSmolken (Jan 7, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Not very well suited for really slow brush-work though, but then, I don't know of any library that is.


The sort of slow, quiet, minimal swirls like the drummer's doing here?



You might be right, or maybe some can do that, the demos just spend their time showing more active, fancier patterns.

Also, the Premier double bass is well liked around these parts.


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## Dietz (Jan 7, 2017)

re-peat said:


> [...]
> 
> The VSL’s, on the other hand, sound rather good and versatile to me. I never really liked the kit as such — its rather *unsuitable-sounding, strangely un-jazzy ride cymbals* have always made the decision not to buy it a very easy one — but those brushes certainly seem capable of quite a lot.
> 
> ...



Those guys haven't been aware of the "official" definition of a jazz-ride, obviously.


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## DSmolken (Jan 8, 2017)

OK... which kit has the best, jazziest ride? I can ask my drummer to go for that type of sound, and also the same articulations (we'll probably do ring scrapes, anyway, just for fun, even if nobody wants them).


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## nordicguy (Mar 20, 2017)

Just bought Drum Tree from Premier Soundfactory.
I was looking for that type of acoustic/open/unprocess (not over-processed) sound of drum since a while.
It just rings in a totally natutal/lively manner.
I'm totally amazed by what I'm hearing!


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## NYC Composer (Mar 20, 2017)

For those who don't mind using loops (and these have a fair assortment of fills, stops, etc...)
I like these a lot:

http://www.drumsondemand.com/collections/drum-loops/products/jazz-latin-drum-loops


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## rrichard63 (Mar 22, 2017)

Has anyone tried Analogue Drums Pizazz?

https://www.analoguedrums.com/products/pizazz/

It has sweep, rim, stir and dig articulations for the snare. As far as I know, though, the stirs can't be tempo-synced (I'm not sure I understand how a developer would do that). I love the sound, and there are companion libraries (called Smoker and Royale) using sticks and mallets on the same kit recorded in the same room.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 22, 2017)

rrichard63 said:


> Has anyone tried Analogue Drums Pizazz?
> 
> https://www.analoguedrums.com/products/pizazz/
> 
> It has sweep, rim, stir and dig articulations for the snare. As far as I know, though, the stirs can't be tempo-synced (I'm not sure I understand how a developer would do that). I love the sound, and there are companion libraries (called Smoker and Royale) using sticks and mallets on the same kit recorded in the same room.





rrichard63 said:


> Has anyone tried Analogue Drums Pizazz?
> 
> https://www.analoguedrums.com/products/pizazz/
> 
> It has sweep, rim, stir and dig articulations for the snare. As far as I know, though, the stirs can't be tempo-synced (I'm not sure I understand how a developer would do that). I love the sound, and there are companion libraries (called Smoker and Royale) using sticks and mallets on the same kit recorded in the same room.



That sounds pretty good in the demos. At that price I think I will pick it up.


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## DSmolken (Mar 22, 2017)

Yeah, not a lot of dynamic layers, but the demos do sound quite nice, and stirs sound stirr-y.


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## airflamesred (Mar 23, 2017)

Some useful bits in the Kontakt jazz kit.


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## Mojo Bone (Mar 23, 2017)

Count me in with the Addictive Drums crowd, but if anything is required that's complicated to program, I have a couple snare drums and some actual brushes.


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## nordicguy (Apr 7, 2017)

This one definitely worth a look at!
*KICK N' BRUSH*
*http://www.loopsdelacreme.com/kontakt-libraries/?mc_cid=ec8f2bba9b&mc_eid=81e17b2f08*


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## DSmolken (Apr 7, 2017)

Just kick and brush, not even a hi-hat? I wonder how well they'd mix with hi-hats from elsewhere.


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## JeffvR (Apr 7, 2017)

I use EZdrummer Jazz and their midi grooves


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## nordicguy (Apr 7, 2017)

DSmolken said:


> Just kick and brush, not even a hi-hat? I wonder how well they'd mix with hi-hats from elsewhere.


Have to say that this isn't rare that I mix drum pieces coming from different kits.
In fact, thinking of it, I almost always do.
This guy is making Kontakt instruments that are simple/effective and that sounds pretty good.
FYI, he also made this one dedicated to High Hats <>.


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## DSmolken (Apr 7, 2017)

Heh, I might just leave this kit as kick and snare, too, and leave the hi-hat and ride out. I'm really just interested in trying something different for the snare stirs, it makes sense to include the rest of the snare with that so hits and stirs sound like the same drum, and it makes sense to have a kick for the sympathetic snare buzz to also sound coherent, but I don't really have any ideas for the hi-hat or ride that would be an improvement over what's already out there, so they'd just be there for completeness.


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## re-peat (Apr 8, 2017)

nordicguy said:


> In fact, thinking of it, I almost always do.



Me too. Well, very often anyway. The *http://users.telenet.be/re-peat/PremierBrushes.mp3 (demo)* I posted earlier in this thread has brushes from PremierSoundfactory, a bassdrum which I sampled myself and a hi-hat from the Peter Erskine Living Drums library.

And surely, adding a hi-hat from one library to brushes from another, isn’t that much of a mixing challenge, is it? Besides, the kicks in this Loops de la Crème library clearly come from completely different sources as well. I didn’t hear a single combination of brushes and kicks during the entire video that sounded as if both were played on one and the same kit.

And the thing is, there aren’t that many good sampled hi-hats. Very, very few actually. Hi-hats and cymbals (rides especially) are usually the instruments that stop sampled drums from convincing. I have a pretty large number of drum libraries — in all shapes, sizes and price categories — but only two contain hi-hats that I’m completely happy working with. Depending on the sort of music you make, your tolerance for sampled hi-hats (and rides) might be greater or smaller than mine, but the fact remains: there aren’t many *really good* ones.

So, I think it’s a sensible decision of Loops de la Crème to leave the hi-hats out of their brushes library. I’d even have thrown out all those kicks as well — several of which sound very ill-fitting to me — and focus exclusively on the brushes.

_


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## Maxfabian (Apr 11, 2017)

I like the Vienna Jazz drums a lot! If they are the best, i don't know I haven't tried any others. But I really think they are easy to use and I got the Vienna Instrument Pro which make them even better so that is a suggestion if you considering buying them. Here is a piece i did using VSL Jazz drums. Hope you like what you here 



Cheers!


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## jonathanparham (Apr 11, 2017)

Just got addictive drum brush kit over the weekend. Really helpful for a cue I'm working on


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## woafmann (Jan 25, 2020)

Maxfabian said:


> I like the Vienna Jazz drums a lot! If they are the best, i don't know I haven't tried any others. But I really think they are easy to use and I got the Vienna Instrument Pro which make them even better so that is a suggestion if you considering buying them. Here is a piece i did using VSL Jazz drums. Hope you like what you here
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!




Late to the party, but hot damn. What excellent playing. Really enjoyed listening to this.


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## Maxfabian (Jan 25, 2020)

woafmann said:


> Late to the party, but hot damn. What excellent playing. Really enjoyed listening to this.


Thanks man! Glad u did


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## apollinaire (Jan 25, 2020)

Maxfabian said:


> I like the Vienna Jazz drums a lot! If they are the best, i don't know I haven't tried any others. But I really think they are easy to use and I got the Vienna Instrument Pro which make them even better so that is a suggestion if you considering buying them. Here is a piece i did using VSL Jazz drums. Hope you like what you here
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!



lovely demo! what piano are you using, it sounds great!


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## cug (Jan 25, 2020)

Maxfabian said:


> I like the Vienna Jazz drums a lot! If they are the best, i don't know I haven't tried any others. But I really think they are easy to use and I got the Vienna Instrument Pro which make them even better so that is a suggestion if you considering buying them. Here is a piece i did using VSL Jazz drums. Hope you like what you here



Ditto on the kudos! Nice work. What did you use for piano and bass?


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## cug (Jan 25, 2020)

DSmolken said:


> What's the best currently available brushed drum kit, especially when it comes to stirs? That seems like a tricky articulation to sample...


I like most of the sounds in Straight Ahead! Brushes and Mallets. I've been able to use the swirls on a few projects. I'm not crazy about the kick drum. I've tried it in mixes but usually end up replacing it because it rings too long and has so much room sound. I know that's the point but it just doesn't work for me. I haven't been able to use the built in patterns too much, mainly because they sometimes keep playing after I stop playback in Logic X. 

My go-to is still Mad RocknFunk for a basic stick kit. I can get a very lively hi-hat because there are so many alternations to work with. VSL Jazz Drums is also on my wish list. The demos sound good and I'm glad they are not hyped up with big arrangements. 

I picked up a cheap snare drum at a yard sale. It's crap for regular hits but fine for doing my own brush work. I also bought a K ride recently because it's really hard to sample the way a ride sounds when playing a pattern, the ongoing ringing, etc. So my "sampled" drums are very hybrid at the moment.


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## Pianolando (Jan 25, 2020)

cug said:


> I like most of the sounds in Straight Ahead! Brushes and Mallets. I've been able to use the swirls on a few projects. I'm not crazy about the kick drum. I've tried it in mixes but usually end up replacing it because it rings too long and has so much room sound. I know that's the point but it just doesn't work for me. I haven't been able to use the built in patterns too much, mainly because they sometimes keep playing after I stop playback in Logic X.



From my perspective it’s the only library I’ve heard that actually has a kick drum that sounds (somewhat) like the 60s Blue note records I love! I use it sparingly and with very low velocity, but I totally get what you’re saying about the boomyness!


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## DSmolken (Jan 26, 2020)

Since this thread's a few years old and got bumped, at least two new developments. Soniccouture Moonkits has various tempo-synced patterns which can be shortened from the interface, and single sweeps.

And I've documented my approach in gory detail as open-source SFZ opcodes, though I've still never applied it to any kit that's actually tuned and set up for jazz. That's here: https://sfzformat.com/tutorials/brush_stirs

If anybody wants to port that to Kontakt or HISE or whatever, go for it.


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## Maxfabian (Jan 26, 2020)

apollinaire said:


> lovely demo! what piano are you using, it sounds great!


Thanks, glad u liked it The piano is Ravenscroft 275. https://www.vilabsaudio.com/Ravenscroft-By-VI-Labs

Cheers!


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## Maxfabian (Jan 26, 2020)

cug said:


> Ditto on the kudos! Nice work. What did you use for piano and bass?


Glad u liked it as well The piano is Ravenscroft 275 (https://www.vilabsaudio.com/Ravenscroft-By-VI-Labs) and the bass is Trillian on this one... but nowadays I prefer Straight Ahead Bass, it feels a little bit more "dirty" witch I prefer for jazz. Here is a track I did with SA Bass, Ravenescroft Piano and SA Drums.... for comparison.. Hope u like it!




Cheers


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## Pianolando (Jan 26, 2020)

Maxfabian said:


> Glad u liked it as well The piano is Ravenscroft 275 (https://www.vilabsaudio.com/Ravenscroft-By-VI-Labs) and the bass is Trillian on this one... but nowadays I prefer Straight Ahead Bass, it feels a little bit more "dirty" witch I prefer for jazz. Here is a track I did with SA Bass, Ravenescroft Piano and SA Drums.... for comparison.. Hope u like it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great sound, great programming and awesome playing! I love the SA drums and bass aswell! Have to try the Ravenscroft, sounds really good in your recording!


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## Rob (Jan 26, 2020)

I'd like to add groove agent's Simon Phillips jazz drums to the list... although listening to the included patterns I'm under the impression that he hasn't played a lot of actual jazz really . But the samples are good


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## Rich4747 (Jan 26, 2020)

Yes Simon Phillips jazz drums sound great to my ears.


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## Rob (Jan 27, 2020)

here are Phillips and SA bass trading fours


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## Consona (May 9, 2020)

I've noticed there's 7 different stirs in Analogue Drums Pizazz, somebody who knows what's that about?


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## Mark Schmieder (May 10, 2020)

As I am just now wrapping up production work on a bunch of jazz-oriented tunes, I am quite pleased to report that the brush kits in Toontrack Decades are holding up through the mix and mastering stages as the first ones I've used that have managed to retain presence and dynamics at all playing velocities.

I think at this point I have swapped out all other brush kits for these, and I use all of them as each piece calls for a slightly different sound. The one I mixed last night used the Modern Jazz kit with brushes. And the same comments hold for the mallets and other non-traditional hits as well.

It is quite likely that there is something more sophisticated out there for snare stirs, when starting from scratch, but these are legacy projects and I'm not going to re-do the drum parts at this point just to get even more nuances on the snares. But for those who have e-drums kits and use those for playing their sample library parts, there are probably better options, even including the VSL Jazz Drums, if you can manage to remember all of the mappings while playing.


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## Monkberry (May 11, 2020)

Mark Schmieder said:


> As I am just now wrapping up production work on a bunch of jazz-oriented tunes, I am quite pleased to report that the brush kits in Toontrack Decades are holding up through the mix and mastering stages as the first ones I've used that have managed to retain presence and dynamics at all playing velocities.
> 
> I think at this point I have swapped out all other brush kits for these, and I use all of them as each piece calls for a slightly different sound. The one I mixed last night used the Modern Jazz kit with brushes. And the same comments hold for the mallets and other non-traditional hits as well.
> 
> It is quite likely that there is something more sophisticated out there for snare stirs, when starting from scratch, but these are legacy projects and I'm not going to re-do the drum parts at this point just to get even more nuances on the snares. But for those who have e-drums kits and use those for playing their sample library parts, there are probably better options, even including the VSL Jazz Drums, if you can manage to remember all of the mappings while playing.


+ 1. The Decades expansion is one of Toontrack's best.


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## Consona (May 12, 2020)

Now, this finally looks like a playable brush snare library:


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## DSmolken (May 13, 2020)

Thanks, I think after a few years and sampling a few kits I got the playability decent, largely thanks to Peter L. Jones who tested these with an e-kit. Now what's missing is applying this to samples of a drum kit that's really set up for jazz - tuned high, snare that's not very deep, toms on the small side etc.

I'm busy with other stuff for quite a while, so if anybody wants to take the documentation I linked above explaining how I did this, run with it, and apply it to a very jazzy kit, I'm all for it.


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## DoubleTap (Oct 14, 2020)

There's a new brushes VST just out with a snazzy GUI:









Brushify Pro. Brush drum kit for Finger Drummers | Sampleson.


Brushify Pro. Brush drum kit for Finger Drummers | Sampleson.



sampleson.com







(I did buy Swirly Drums which were great btw).


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## Jkist (Oct 14, 2020)

Another +1 for SD3 Decades. Library is incredible. And the built-in midi grooves actually make it super easy to make something convincing. Superior Drummer 3 as a whole is just an incredible tool, I am actually selling my SSD5.5 library, as well as a few GGD libraries since purchasing SD3!


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## DSmolken (Oct 14, 2020)

DoubleTap said:


> There's a new brushes VST just out with a snazzy GUI:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I remember when that came out, the approach to modeling stirs is similar-ish to what I do, in the sense that the stirs are flexible in terms of length and dynamics.


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## GtrString (Oct 14, 2020)

The art of brushes from The Loop Loft is the best brushes Ive tried, as well as the brushes in ProjectSam Swing.

I didnt like Toontrack, Xln and NI Studio Drummer brushes. Still I got a real snare and some brushes to record, as I haven’t been completely happy with any of the software offerings so far.


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## Kirk1701 (Nov 2, 2020)

DSmolken said:


> I remember when that came out, the approach to modeling stirs is similar-ish to what I do, in the sense that the stirs are flexible in terms of length and dynamics.



I agree. I just picked up Swirly Drums and it sounds really good. I'm using it on a cover of Ray Charles' "Hard Times," but I wish all the sounds were a little 'washier,' if that makes sense.

I'm working in Kontakt. Perhaps I'm missing something that could make the attack a bit softer(?), especially on the cymbals. I don’t know if a long decay splash strike exists and I'm not hearing it.

I use Abbey Road 60s Drummer for all my drum sounds. I wish they'd added a brush articulation for this VI. In fact, I'd make an official request, if it didn't fall on deaf ears.


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## DSmolken (Nov 2, 2020)

Thanks. I just kinda hit the cymbals with the wires swinging straight down like a stick, so a lot of wires make contact at once. Though it would be entirely possible to make a softer attack in real life with flat glancing blows... lemme ask a drummer or two if they ever do that in real life. Even if it's not really loud enough for regular use at gigs, it should record fine.

I guess you could poke around in the Kontakt instrument and see if you can do a volume envelope with a quarter-second attack for the cymbals. Won't be the same as real recordings, but if it sounds useful...


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## Kirk1701 (Nov 2, 2020)

DSmolken said:


> Thanks. I just kinda hit the cymbals with the wires swinging straight down like a stick, so a lot of wires make contact at once. Though it would be entirely possible to make a softer attack in real life with flat glancing blows... lemme ask a drummer or two if they ever do that in real life. Even if it's not really loud enough for regular use at gigs, it should record fine.
> 
> I guess you could poke around in the Kontakt instrument and see if you can do a volume envelope with a quarter-second attack for the cymbals. Won't be the same as real recordings, but if it sounds useful...



It's a very specific strike I'm looking for and only appears once at the downbeat of the first verse. I think the og drummer might've used the handle rather than the wires, but I can't be sure.


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## re-peat (Nov 2, 2020)

Here’s a recent mix of an old track of mine — *Promenade* — that has virtual brushes. Stitched together with a mixture of samples from Straight Ahead, Big Fish Audio, Premier Soundfactory plus a few last minutes additions from Superior Drummer 3.


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## DoubleTap (Nov 2, 2020)

DSmolken said:


> Thanks. I just kinda hit the cymbals with the wires swinging straight down like a stick, so a lot of wires make contact at once. Though it would be entirely possible to make a softer attack in real life with flat glancing blows... lemme ask a drummer or two if they ever do that in real life. Even if it's not really loud enough for regular use at gigs, it should record fine.
> 
> I guess you could poke around in the Kontakt instrument and see if you can do a volume envelope with a quarter-second attack for the cymbals. Won't be the same as real recordings, but if it sounds useful...



I've definitely hit a crash with both the handle and the wires. I wouldn't use the handle very often though, because you would generally get a much more gong-like effect - very very slow attack, but quite loud. The rubber would kill the transient sparkle but the motion of the cymbal would create the swell of noise. But the whole point of a crash is usually to emphasise a beat, not to just make a general noise.

The standard thing to do would be to use the brushes to sizzle the hi-hats. Most of the time though, because brushes are quiet, you don't want to make a big noise. I remember when I was learning to play jazz brushes my teacher was always on at me to make the bass drum quieter. 

"But I'm barely touching it!" 

"Still too loud."

You can of course turn the brushes around and play the ride with the ring at the end of the wires too - the metal on metal effect is pretty sharp. I always liked the shimmery effect of scraping both brushes on the ride, not sure if anyone's done that much.


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## DSmolken (Nov 2, 2020)

Ha. Yes.

Tbh I really focused on getting the snare stuff right, recording cymbals in more detail and with some more "FXy" techniques is something I haven't gotten around to yet. I've thought about recoring cymbals being hit with the ring, and also scrapes, but didn't get around to it (instead I did brushed bongos and darbouka... not classic sounds but surprisingly useful). But I've also never really sampled a jazz kit with brushes - kit pieces in jazz sizes, tuned high for jazz. I'm pretty happy with the snare stir algo I have in Unruly Drums, but that's a weird kit with a bunch of odd snares. There's always more that can be done... but knowing me, instead of being reasonable and sampling a jazzy kit I'll probably do something ridiculous like make a 20-inch hi-hat.


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## vsthem (Nov 3, 2020)

xln audio modern jazz drums is great. the struck snare and Toms sound great in a lot of contexts outside of jazz too. i always use a different kick, but otherwise it's great


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## Rossy (Nov 4, 2020)

I used BFD3 and love their Yamaha jazz maple kit. All velocity sensitive with a great drag.









FXpansion


FXpansion - UK based music software developers - makers of BFD3, Geist2, Strobe2 and Cypher2.




www.fxpansion.com


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## Lode_Runner (Nov 4, 2020)

Kirk1701 said:


> I use Abbey Road 60s Drummer for all my drum sounds. I wish they'd added a brush articulation for this VI. In fact, I'd make an official request, if it didn't fall on deaf ears.


They have brushes in Abbey Road Vintage Drummer and Abbey Road 50s Drummer, but these might be more vintage sounding than what you're after.


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## Kirk1701 (Nov 4, 2020)

Lode_Runner said:


> They have brushes in Abbey Road Vintage Drummer and Abbey Road 50s Drummer, but these might be more vintage sounding than what you're after.



This I did know. Little more than I'd like to spend at present.


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## telecode101 (Jan 13, 2021)

..


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## Kirk1701 (Jan 13, 2021)

I wound up getting Wavesfactory Legacy Drums on Black Friday. I'm pleased with the brushed kit so far. The "stir" hits are tricky, but not impossible.


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## DoubleTap (Mar 8, 2022)

Now this looks interesting:









Audio Plug-ins


Klevgrand is a creative studio and software company in Stockholm run by film makers, musicians, software developers, producers and sound designers.




klevgrand.com







> Borsta (Swedish verb, means _to brush_) is a drum and percussion instrument that simulates strokes and brushes. Its unique audio engine allows for an endless number of very natural sounding brushing phrases and rhythms.
> What sets Borsta apart from similar instruments is that its audio engine supports continuous changes in intensity. This makes it possible to create life-like brushing phrases and patterns, something that can't be easily achieved with ordinary sample-based instruments.
> The parallel envelope and events sequencers allow you to determine exactly when to start a stroke, how the stroke's pressure/speed should evolve over time and when to end it. On top of that, each instrument also offers multi-sampled one-shots with advanced choking capabilities.
> Each instrument is based on more than 400 high-quality samples, recorded for playing with different velocities and round robins. The initial version of Borsta comes with 18 different instruments, but each instance of the plug-in emulates one single drum instrument at a time. That means the sequences can only be played one at a time. However, switching between sequences can be done seamlessly via MIDI, and additional one-shot samples can be triggered using an ordinary MIDI track.
> ...


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## DSmolken (Mar 8, 2022)

Interesting, indeed. Modeling realistic sounding brushes isn't really as hard as you'd think before you try it; getting that model to be easy to use and playable in real tracks, though, that's the tricky part.


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## DoubleTap (Mar 8, 2022)

DSmolken said:


> Interesting, indeed. Modeling realistic sounding brushes isn't really as hard as you'd think before you try it; getting that model to be easy to use and playable in real tracks, though, that's the tricky part.



Yes I can imagine - the stir of the brush on a snare drum head is really just a form of noise with a volume envelope and a filter envelope isn't it? The MSEG is useful for creating the swish but it does look more like a programming tool than a playable tool, although that would suit me in many ways.

What makes it more compelling is the range of percussion instruments and the creative impetus it gives to try things out.


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