# Korngold-inspired Intro/Prelude



## Jorgakis (Jul 11, 2017)

Hey,

spend a lot of time creating an "old style" hollywood introduction (considering its length maybe the most time I've spend for a composition). I know it could've been a little "less", the ideas more simple, but at some point I couldn't go on anymore.
The main inspiration was "The Sea Hawk" Opening by Erich Korngold, but also some more jazzy elements like from David Raksin's "Laura". 
Hope you like it:



Jorgo


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## TGV (Jul 11, 2017)

I do like it. It has some of that late Romantic "shattered counterpoint", as I tend to think of it, that Korngold used so well, and it's well orchestrated.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 11, 2017)

Jorgakis said:


> Hey,
> 
> spend a lot of time creating an "old style" hollywood introduction (considering its length maybe the most time I've spend for a composition). I know it could've been a little "less", the ideas more simple, but at some point I couldn't go on anymore.
> The main inspiration was "The Sea Hawk" Opening by Erich Korngold, but also some more jazzy elements like from David Raksin's "Laura".
> ...





Wooowooo..sloooow down..
First: I love the fact what you are after. And I probably know what you want to create. But you have a bit to slow down. The whole 29 first seconds have such great orchestrational sounds. But I can´t really tell where I am. After beeing 1-2 Bars in the game, you modulate already, and then I am totally lost in where your "meat" idea is about there? The fanfaric approach is niiice and you get some great colors here and the execution of midi treatment is also very good, but brother: You need a tiny hook or something where you can either melodic wise or rhythmic wise relate too. And that is not that easy here, to find out where you are going for. I like your b - Section a way more as it gives a bit of more fluid flow. At 1.34..is that a return to the A Section, I am not sure, but it sounds again fanfarish, but it is hard for me to tell where the motif is established. That carries practically on throughout the end of the track. I love really the orchestraton and intensity of the perfomance here, but you should really at least to relax a little and focus on a certain motif, because I tell you: Korngolds orchestration which you capture pretty cool, but Korngold has very motivic anchors, just e.g. the Kings Row theme. The whole beginning is just a very basic I/IV/V progression by its "very basic" understanding with a simple melody in it. I think there is this hard thing to master which is: You want to have complex sound and approach, but without beeing "complicated" or "confusing". And so I can only recommend that you should probably establish first a clear idea regardless if it is a fanfarish motif or melodic on a piano sketch. I am not sure: Did you sketch out that track before you orchestrated it? Just would like to know your approach here.


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## Saxer (Jul 11, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> The whole 29 first seconds have such great orchestrational sounds. But I can´t really tell where I am.


To be fair: that's what happens to me in parts of Korngolds scorings too 
Probably it would help the listener to take them by the hand and give them a chance to find their way through the track. But the track sounds great! I can hear the celluloid! Fantastic work!


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## dcoscina (Jul 11, 2017)

Jorgakis said:


> Hey,
> 
> spend a lot of time creating an "old style" hollywood introduction (considering its length maybe the most time I've spend for a composition). I know it could've been a little "less", the ideas more simple, but at some point I couldn't go on anymore.
> The main inspiration was "The Sea Hawk" Opening by Erich Korngold, but also some more jazzy elements like from David Raksin's "Laura".
> ...



Terrific!!!


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## Jorgakis (Jul 11, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Wooowooo..sloooow down..
> First: I love the fact what you are after. And I probably know what you want to create. But you have a bit to slow down. The whole 29 first seconds have such great orchestrational sounds. But I can´t really tell where I am. After beeing 1-2 Bars in the game, you modulate already, and then I am totally lost in where your "meat" idea is about there? The fanfaric approach is niiice and you get some great colors here and the execution of midi treatment is also very good, but brother: You need a tiny hook or something where you can either melodic wise or rhythmic wise relate too. And that is not that easy here, to find out where you are going for. I like your b - Section a way more as it gives a bit of more fluid flow. At 1.34..is that a return to the A Section, I am not sure, but it sounds again fanfarish, but it is hard for me to tell where the motif is established. That carries practically on throughout the end of the track. I love really the orchestraton and intensity of the perfomance here, but you should really at least to relax a little and focus on a certain motif, because I tell you: Korngolds orchestration which you capture pretty cool, but Korngold has very motivic anchors, just e.g. the Kings Row theme. The whole beginning is just a very basic I/IV/V progression by its "very basic" understanding with a simple melody in it. I think there is this hard thing to master which is: You want to have complex sound and approach, but without beeing "complicated" or "confusing". And so I can only recommend that you should probably establish first a clear idea regardless if it is a fanfarish motif or melodic on a piano sketch. I am not sure: Did you sketch out that track before you orchestrated it? Just would like to know your approach here.



Haha thanks for the post Alex, I know I have something like "musical adhs" (not in real life though). It's hard to fight it and still go a little crazy with the ideas. I've heard it quiet a few times on this forum, and I totally agree. My main goal is to be more clear, I always have that in mind. I'm working on that, I hope it's not that bad anymore...

I know I didn't quiet nail it but I think the main fanfare idea is not that unclear. Just like the sea hawk introduction I wanted to get that hurried fanfare sound and squeeze it in a 2min piece. To me this also didn't sound THAT catchy (the romantic theme did ofc).
I sketched out several A B C parts and tried out different combinations. But my first idea was like making a march-only track. Then I listened too much to "the sea hawk" prelude, and decided to go for an introduction, with a fanfare, and a rather dreamy-romantic theme. The 3rd theme is ok on it's own I guess but may be too distracting from the other 2 really adhs-themes, so I guess this might be a bit of a problem digesting the whole thing. But considering my model-piece "the sea hawk" , it also contained a 3rd theme. So I ended up like this.

The fanfare theme has a main statement that is answered by this syncopated outbreak (00:04...), yes there is really much happening but I thought it sounded more korngold-ish than the first idea I had (wich was answering the motif in a similar, march-like manner). At the end I answer the motif in a half-time-way , maybe it would've been better for the whole piece? I'm not sure...

Currently trying to sketch everything out on the piano, but I still end up doing some confusing stuff. Working on some chamber pieces that force me to be more limited to my piano skills, which automatically slows me down.




Saxer said:


> To be fair: that's what happens to me in parts of Korngolds scorings too
> Probably it would help the listener to take them by the hand and give them a chance to find their way through the track. But the track sounds great! I can hear the celluloid! Fantastic work!



Thanks very much Saxer, that's what I thought too:D. But I know, the Korngold idea is still much clearer...



dcoscina said:


> Terrific!!!



Thank you dcoscina!



TGV said:


> I do like it. It has some of that late Romantic "shattered counterpoint", as I tend to think of it, that Korngold used so well, and it's well orchestrated.



Thank you! Do you have any late romantic example for "shattered counterpoint"? (no film music, I mean)


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## dcoscina (Jul 11, 2017)

The composition is solid. This kind of style of writing is challenging for even the best sample libraries out there. Kudos to your mock up but extra kudos for the music itself. It's dynamic and wonderful!


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## markleake (Jul 14, 2017)

I have no idea why you don't have more listeners on your soundcloud. This is great. I really love the contrasting section at 0:30. The flute doing is little trills, the strings so smooth but strong. It's wonderful stuff, and your orchestration is to be admired.

I do agree that you could have made more of the fanfare motive, and that the fanfare itself could do with some more complexity (although overall the motive works very well). But that's what I come to expect from your tracks, that you have to expect the themes to move on very quickly. Other parts of you track have that same issue a little... wonderful textures but you have to work hard to hear the melodic themes.


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## Guy Bacos (Jul 15, 2017)

I really enjoyed this. Good orchestration! Beautiful contrast at 1:40. 

As far as the form, works form me, flows nicely even with the sudden modulations and that's what's fun about the piece, at least the way it's crafted, as I hear it.


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## Jorgakis (Jul 16, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> The composition is solid. This kind of style of writing is challenging for even the best sample libraries out there. Kudos to your mock up but extra kudos for the music itself. It's dynamic and wonderful!



Thanks, that's something I'm always aiming for, although I dont have the patiens to dig in too deep into technical questions (like eq and compression). But at least the orchestra should sound "organic".



markleake said:


> Other parts of you track have that same issue a little... wonderful textures but you have to work hard to hear the melodic themes.



I know that, believe me, it bothers me every day. I hope that it gradually is getting slightly better though. In this track I tried it very hard to be more "compact", while maintaining some crazy stuff. But I also learned from hearing symphonic music that some things are not that obvious at the first place, but make sense after a little while. 



Guy Bacos said:


> I really enjoyed this. Good orchestration! Beautiful contrast at 1:40.
> 
> As far as the form, works form me, flows nicely even with the sudden modulations and that's what's fun about the piece, at least the way it's crafted, as I hear it.



Thank you very much, again, coming from you (I remember buying my first vsl se, and I listened to the demos, and I thought, yeah I want to do something the Bacos pieces :D).
Yeah, I was hoping the modulations to sound like fun! That's what stroke me listening the the ben hur prelude, or the korngold pieces...


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