# Generating MIDI for runs



## marclawsonmusic (Sep 7, 2020)

Hi all,

Any tried-and-true suggestions for quickly generating MIDI for runs and glissandos? 

I wonder if there is a tool that allows you to specify the type of scale, duration (8th, 16th, etc), and start/end of the run... and out pops some nice MIDI. Or maybe there is a MIDI pack out there with a bunch of runs that can be dragged/dropped?

I am using Logic. Using step input would be ideal, but I have not found an easy way to use step input with variable-length tuplets (5, 7, 15, etc). I supposed I could switch to score editor for this, but that is also not ideal since I have to pencil in each note.

Thanks in advance,
Marc


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## AndyP (Sep 7, 2020)

RedRoom Audios Arps & Runs are prerecorded String and Woodwind runs with drag & drop Midi export. Does the job for me. Alternative I play them myself.


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## marclawsonmusic (Sep 7, 2020)

Thanks @AndyP, but ugh... $199. And I don't really need more samples... I just want the MIDI data. I'm trying to avoid playing myself since my timing is not so good for two-octave scale runs.


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## nolotrippen (Sep 7, 2020)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Thanks @AndyP, but ugh... $199. And I don't really need more samples... I just want the MIDI data. I'm trying to avoid playing myself since my timing is not so good for two-octave scale runs.



Many DAWs have arpeggiators. Add some crescendo and decresendo for spice and you should be set. No extra samples required. Alternatively, you can play runs in yourself (slowly if you're like me) and edit to taste.


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## sbarrettmusic (Sep 7, 2020)

You can create runs pretty quickly in Logic using step input and time stretching. So let's say you want a septuplet, 7 notes fit evenly inside one beat. Create a new region and step input the notes you want as whole notes. You should have a region that is 7 measures long with 7 whole notes. Now time stretch the region by holding option then click and drag the right edge of the region to the left until the region is only 1 beat long. You now have a region that is one beat long with 7 evenly spaced notes.


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## marclawsonmusic (Sep 7, 2020)

sbarrettmusic said:


> You can create runs pretty quickly in Logic using step input and time stretching. So let's say you want a septuplet, 7 notes fit evenly inside one beat. Create a new region and step input the notes you want as whole notes. You should have a region that is 7 measures long with 7 whole notes. Now time stretch the region by holding option then click and drag the right edge of the region to the left until the region is only 1 beat long. You now have a region that is one beat long with 7 evenly spaced notes.



Hey, sounds perfect! I'll give that a try. Thanks for the suggestion


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## sbarrettmusic (Sep 7, 2020)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Hey, sounds perfect! I'll give that a try. Thanks for the suggestion


No problem! What also is great about this method is that it's the same process no matter how many notes you want and no matter how many beats the notes should fill. So if you want 15 notes across two beats then you input 15 whole notes and time stretch the region to fit two beats.

I should add that step inputting whole notes assumes you are in 4/4, if you are in 3/4 you should input dotted halves. The idea is that in order for the notes to be spaced evenly, the region needs to be exactly the length of the notes, so theoretically you could input any note length you want and cut the end of the region at the end of the last note before you time stretch it.


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## tonaliszt (Sep 7, 2020)

If you are using logic you in addition to @sbarrettmusic good suggestion you might also find it useful to save various runs as MIDI apple loops. I did this a while back with various harp glisses and come back to it every once in a while.


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## JohnG (Sep 7, 2020)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Any tried-and-true suggestions for quickly generating MIDI for runs and glissandos?



Do you have Hollywood Strings, Marc? There are lots of runs using HS on a demo I did (perhaps oddly) for Hollywood Brass here: 

http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-brass 

Go to "audio demos" and look for "Juicy Insect" -- lots of runs on that one.

I think the strings actually sound better now than my brass did. Probably could do better today.


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## Illico (Sep 7, 2020)

For Harp, there were a Kontakt plugin : Harp Notes Generator


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## AndyP (Sep 7, 2020)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Thanks @AndyP, but ugh... $199. And I don't really need more samples... I just want the MIDI data. I'm trying to avoid playing myself since my timing is not so good for two-octave scale runs.


Ah ok, I understand.
In Cubase, and certainly in other Daws, you can also use the stepsequncer mode in the editor window. You play the notes as normal, and depending on whether you set it to 4/4 or 3/4, the notes are automatically set in the grid, depending on the choosen quantize settings.
Afterwards unquantize them a little bit so they don't sound so static. You can also play the notes very slowly, they are always exactly in the grid.
With this I get very good results. The input also reacts to velocity values.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 7, 2020)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Hey, sounds perfect! I'll give that a try. Thanks for the suggestion



I actually include doing that in my soon to be released Logic Pro X book.


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## marclawsonmusic (Sep 7, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Do you have Hollywood Strings, Marc? There are lots of runs using HS on a demo I did (perhaps oddly) for Hollywood Brass here:
> 
> http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-brass
> 
> ...



Hey John, I do have Hollywood Strings, but am currently using CSS for this project. I am trying to write my own glisses (as practice), although the pre-programmed ones would definitely give a better results. 'Juicy Insect' - crazy fun track, by the way! What a fun ride


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## robcs (Sep 7, 2020)

The guys at sonokinetic are adding midi copy to their Modal Runs product at some point. I guess the question is can you wait? Especially as the haven't given an ETA


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 7, 2020)

sbarrettmusic said:


> You can create runs pretty quickly in Logic using step input and time stretching. So let's say you want a septuplet, 7 notes fit evenly inside one beat. Create a new region and step input the notes you want as whole notes. You should have a region that is 7 measures long with 7 whole notes. Now time stretch the region by holding option then click and drag the right edge of the region to the left until the region is only 1 beat long. You now have a region that is one beat long with 7 evenly spaced notes.


I use a stretching script for reaper, this is definately the easiest way to program runs. 

I like it because i nudge/tweak the run slightly off perfect timing anyways based on the phrase(so it's slightly faster or slower during certain points) because of this, I dont even have to care if I step-entered it in quarter notes, itll fit 11 notes in 1 bar or 6.


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## marclawsonmusic (Sep 8, 2020)

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. Much appreciated!


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## NekujaK (Sep 8, 2020)

If you're interested in MIDI, there's this, but I can't quite figure out where to download the files. I think you may need to support him on Patreon.









Fast Orchestral MIDI Runs


As a gift in March to my Patrons, 10 fast orchestral MIDI runs that you can use in any of your orchestral compositions. Thanks for your support! https://youtu.be/SJ5SZgVgh5U Don’t forget to hit that like button if




gh0stwrit3r.com


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## GingerMaestro (Sep 8, 2020)

I play a gliss in live using my finger on the white notes, starting on the lower pitch and finishing at the top (or reverse if going from high to low) I then adjust the accidentals and dynamics etc in the piano roll, then you are done...easy...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 8, 2020)

sbarrettmusic said:


> You can create runs pretty quickly in Logic using step input and time stretching. So let's say you want a septuplet, 7 notes fit evenly inside one beat. Create a new region and step input the notes you want as whole notes. You should have a region that is 7 measures long with 7 whole notes. Now time stretch the region by holding option then click and drag the right edge of the region to the left until the region is only 1 beat long. You now have a region that is one beat long with 7 evenly spaced notes.



I don't quite follow. Why do you need to record whole notes and time-stretch them into one beat rather than just step-entering a group of however many "tuplets" you want?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 8, 2020)

Also, especially for strings, one of the tricks is to layer different performances of the run so they're not perfect, i.e. randomize one performance.


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## sbarrettmusic (Sep 8, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I don't quite follow. Why do you need to record whole notes and time-stretch them into one beat rather than just step-entering a group of however many "tuplets" you want?


OP was asking for a quick way of step-inputting various tuplets, for example something like this:






If there is a way to step input this figure, then I am all ears.


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## tjr (Sep 8, 2020)

Do you have any notation software? I'd probably input these passages into Sibelius and export MIDI.


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## jononotbono (Sep 8, 2020)

Buy a MIDI pack? 

Sorry. Too soon.


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## marclawsonmusic (Sep 8, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I don't quite follow. Why do you need to record whole notes and time-stretch them into one beat rather than just step-entering a group of however many "tuplets" you want?



Hi Nick, that is the quantize dropdown... which isn't the same as used by the step entry. 

Step entry just gives you standard note values - e.g. 16th, 32nd, 8th, etc. There doesn't appear to be an option for (any size) tuplets there (other than triplets).


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## marclawsonmusic (Sep 8, 2020)

GingerMaestro said:


> I play a gliss in live using my finger on the white notes, starting on the lower pitch and finishing at the top (or reverse if going from high to low) I then adjust the accidentals and dynamics etc in the piano roll, then you are done...easy...



Good idea (I think @Living Fossil made a similar suggestion but I can't find his post anymore).

I can easily do one-hand runs / glisses at tempo, but when it goes beyond five fingers I struggle a bit. Sorry, not a great piano player here... especially for 2-octave up-and-down runs. 

Anyway, this is one of those cases where I just want something programmed / quantized / whatever. In the end, it's a background effect so I don't want to spend a lot of time tweaking MIDI like I would with legato melody lines. I just want a tool (like the harp tool mentioned earlier) that outputs MIDI notes on my piano roll. (harp tool doesn't, sadly) 

There are lots of good suggestions in this thread. Thanks again to everyone who took interest.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 9, 2020)

sbarrettmusic said:


> OP was asking for a quick way of step-inputting various tuplets, for example something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Easy in Logic Pro. You use the N-tuplet in the Score Editor.


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## sbarrettmusic (Sep 9, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Easy in Logic Pro. You use the N-tuplet in the Score Editor.


Ok, I know my way around the score editor but I admit I haven't used the N-tuplet tool much. I'm a Sibelius user, I only learned how to use Logic's score editor because I had to teach it in a class. I know how to drop it on a note and get it to display a 7 note tuplet, but how do you use that to actually step input notes of that duration? If I drop in an n-tuplet and then try step inputting the note lengths stick to whatever is selected in the step input keyboard. 

The fact that this method requires switching to the score editor, dropping in an n-tuplet and changing a bunch of setting in the dialogue is already taking WAY too long. My way is faster


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## Ashermusic (Sep 9, 2020)

sbarrettmusic said:


> Ok, I know my way around the score editor but I admit I haven't used the N-tuplet tool much. I'm a Sibelius user, I only learned how to use Logic's score editor because I had to teach it in a class. I know how to drop it on a note and get it to display a 7 note tuplet, but how do you use that to actually step input notes of that duration? If I drop in an n-tuplet and then try step inputting the note lengths stick to whatever is selected in the step input keyboard.
> 
> The fact that this method requires switching to the score editor, dropping in an n-tuplet and changing a bunch of setting in the dialogue is already taking WAY too long. My way is faster




I can do it quickly just by adding a note, dragging in the n-tuplet, and then playing the remaining notes form either my keyboard or the Step Input keyboard.

But whatever works for anyone is fine.


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## sbarrettmusic (Sep 9, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I can do it quickly just by adding a note, dragging in the n-tuplet, and then playing the remaining notes form either my keyboard or the Step Input keyboard.
> 
> But whatever works for anyone is fine.


Weird, I'm likely doing something wrong but it's not working that way for me here.


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## marclawsonmusic (Sep 10, 2020)

@sbarrettmusic I tried your suggestion, but when I option-click the regions to shrink them (per the documentation), Logic doesn't compress (time stretch) the lengths - it just collapses the region over the notes. I am on 10.4.1, so maybe this time-stretching is a new feature that was recently added?

@Ashermusic I also tried score editor, and I got my tuplet entered correctly - it looked perfect in score editor - but the lengths of the notes in the piano roll varied (strange) and the timing didn't sound right. I don't know if I did it wrong or not.

I might just switch to Sibelius to do this... it sure would be nice if I had a Kontakt instrument (or script) where I could input some parameters and then output (or drag) MIDI onto the piano roll.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 10, 2020)

I always keep two project alternatives, one that sounds optimal and one that looks optimal.


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## sbarrettmusic (Sep 10, 2020)

marclawsonmusic said:


> @sbarrettmusic I tried your suggestion, but when I option-click the regions to shrink them (per the documentation), Logic doesn't compress (time stretch) the lengths - it just collapses the region over the notes. I am on 10.4.1, so maybe this time-stretching is a new feature that was recently added?
> 
> @Ashermusic I also tried score editor, and I got my tuplet entered correctly - it looked perfect in score editor - but the lengths of the notes in the piano roll varied (strange) and the timing didn't sound right. I don't know if I did it wrong or not.
> 
> I might just switch to Sibelius to do this... it sure would be nice if I had a Kontakt instrument (or script) where I could input some parameters and then output (or drag) MIDI onto the piano roll.


I think time stretch has always been a feature in Logic Pro X but I'm not exactly sure. I am on 10.4.8. When you hover your cursor over the right edge of the region, the cursor should change from this:




to this:





Is that not happening for you? Another thing you can try is to set the cycle locators to the desired length, then select the region and click Edit -> Time Stretch -> Time Stretch Region Length to Locators. If you don't see that in the menus then I guess it must be a new feature (or you have the advanced tools disabled).


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## tonaliszt (Sep 10, 2020)

sbarrettmusic said:


> I think time stretch has always been a feature in Logic Pro X but I'm not exactly sure. I am on 10.4.8. When you hover your cursor over the right edge of the region, the cursor should change from this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This can also be done using the Time Handles (access with Control T) in the piano roll.


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## sbarrettmusic (Sep 10, 2020)

marclawsonmusic said:


> @Ashermusic I also tried score editor, and I got my tuplet entered correctly - it looked perfect in score editor - but the lengths of the notes in the piano roll varied (strange) and the timing didn't sound right. I don't know if I did it wrong or not.



BTW I think the only way to get the notes to actually play the timing correctly via the score editor is to pencil the notes in rather than trying to step input. If you drop in a note and use the n-tuplet tool to make it a 7 tuplet of 16ths notes, for example, then pencil in the rest of the notes with the next smallest note value, 32nd notes in this case, then it should look correct in the score and playback correctly. It's slower than step entry but it does work.


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## sbarrettmusic (Sep 10, 2020)

tonaliszt said:


> This can also be done using the Time Handles (access with Control T) in the piano roll.


I didn't know about that, great tip, thanks! That actually makes it easier to step input any note value you want and then fit it to the desired length. My only gripe with this is that there is no way to visually see if Time Handles are toggled on or off, it would be nice if they added a toggle button in the piano roll for it, there is plenty of space....


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