# Oscars 2010



## choc0thrax (Mar 4, 2010)

It's that time of year again to get ready to yell at the TV when the worst score out of a bunch of bad scores wins the Oscar. This year we get to choose between 10 "best" pictures. There's also a new voting system this time:

"This year's supersize Best Picture race also brings with it a new voting system. Rather than simply check off one of the 10 nominees, Academy members are being asked to rank the contenders from 1 to 10. After all the first-place citations are counted, the film with the fewest votes will be eliminated, and those voters' second choices will count instead. The process continues until one film has more than 50 percent of the vote."

Here's how I rank original score:

1. *Avatar*
2. *The hurt Locker*
3. *Up*
4/5. *Sherlock Holmes* *TIE* *Fantastic Mr. Fox* (couldn't decide which one was more annoying.)

Avatar basically wins by default. 

While I'm at it I guess I'll list my best picture list: (only listing the films I've seen)

1. *District 9*
2. *Hurt Locker*
3. *Inglourious Basterds*
4. *Up*
5. *Avatar*


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## choc0thrax (Mar 5, 2010)

That Desplat score makes me reach for the Advil.


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## AR (Mar 5, 2010)

...doesn't matter, cause he won't get it. I promise you


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## choc0thrax (Mar 5, 2010)

Oh, I know he won't win. It'll be Avatar.


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## midphase (Mar 5, 2010)

It's funny but even Slate.com, a non-musical site doesn't think Horner deserves the Oscar. Here's what they wrote recently:

"But handicapping these prom-queen awards seems less fun than railing about the tech-category outrages that only we nerds get invested in: James Horner cannot win for best score for the sub-Wagnerian martial hokum that accompanied Avatar! "

Link to the full article:

http://www.slate.com/id/2246812/entry/2246814/


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## midphase (Mar 5, 2010)

I think UP will grab it...I really do.


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## choc0thrax (Mar 5, 2010)

I wouldn't mind Up getting it. What I'm worried about is Avatar somehow winning best picture which would be retarded. I don't even think it should win for best visual effects (I prefer the effects in D9).


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 5, 2010)

midphase @ Fri Mar 05 said:


> It's funny but even Slate.com, a non-musical site doesn't think Horner deserves the Oscar. Here's what they wrote recently:
> 
> "But handicapping these prom-queen awards seems less fun than railing about the tech-category outrages that only we nerds get invested in: James Horner cannot win for best score for the sub-Wagnerian martial hokum that accompanied Avatar! "
> 
> ...



That's a good point.


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## autopilot (Mar 6, 2010)

Up for score

Crazy Heart for song. 

The rest here... 

http://oscar.go.com/extras/play-along-ballot?uid=11916


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## choc0thrax (Mar 7, 2010)

Well looks like Up took the best score award. Tarantino got totally ripped off for best original screenplay.


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## nikolas (Mar 7, 2010)

Avatar got 3 oscars in all? Hmmm... Yes, Tarantino was ripped, but YAY for UP! (the one place that I didn't want Avatar to win...).


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 7, 2010)

Glad Avatatar didn't do any better. A good movie that was way over rated. 

At least I got my only prediction rightòŸ'   ÇöxŸ'   ÇöyŸ'   ÇözŸ'   Çö{Ÿ'   Çö|Ÿ'   Çö}Ÿ'   Çö~Ÿ'   ÇöŸ'   Çö€Ÿ'   Çö


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## choc0thrax (Mar 7, 2010)

midphase @ Mon Mar 08 said:


> I called it! What do I win?



You win nothing, autopilot got two right!


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## KingIdiot (Mar 7, 2010)

I really need to give my ears a break...

all I kept hearing was noise reduction, and phasey nastiness of the audience clapping (from the collapsed surround mix I'm guessing)

WTF is wrong with me?

on the "up" side. Screw the whole 1st Female director thing, A Video Game composer just won an Oscar!! There's hope for us all!! .. well maybe not all..


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## kid-surf (Mar 7, 2010)

Glad Hurt Locker cleaned up...

Got a kick out of seeing my wife's colleague get so much face time. He was the guy seated next to KB. Her represents her...


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## Conor (Mar 8, 2010)

nikolas @ Sun Mar 07 said:


> Avatar got 3 oscars in all? Hmmm... Yes, Tarantino was ripped, but YAY for UP! (the one place that I didn't want Avatar to win...).


I'm with Mr. Sideris all the way here. 8)

Avatar deserved far more. Call me a fanboy, but the beauty of that story (borrowed though it may be) and that world have really stayed with me, made me feel a little more alive. Jeezus, I *AM* a fanboy aren't I?

Tarantino deserved a little love. (Although Christoph Waltz did win Best Supporting Actor, cheers to him!)

And UP very much deserved Best Original Score. (My congrats to Mr. Giacchino!)

Clearly, I need to see The Hurt Locker now.


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## Imzadi (Mar 8, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Fri Mar 05 said:


> I wouldn't mind Up getting it. What I'm worried about is Avatar somehow winning best picture which would be retarded. *I don't even think it should win for best visual effects (I prefer the effects in D9*).



I get some criticizing Avatar for its generic story and other flaws, but when I read this I wonder if Avatar success and hype have backfired in such a way that people just criticize it for the sake of it. 
How far and different the concept and criteria for what good special fxs have to be? I don't believe there's such a thing or discussion to be had, but I might be wrong (although I doubt it!).


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 8, 2010)

midphase @ Mon Mar 08 said:


> I called it! What do I win?



You did. I'll buy you a beer. o-[][]-o


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## choc0thrax (Mar 8, 2010)

Imzadi @ Mon Mar 08 said:


> choc0thrax @ Fri Mar 05 said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't mind Up getting it. What I'm worried about is Avatar somehow winning best picture which would be retarded. *I don't even think it should win for best visual effects (I prefer the effects in D9*).
> ...



Just a personal preference. I prefer gritty, realistic CG to the sort of jar jar binx type Avatar stuff.


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## spectrum (Mar 8, 2010)

So.....

They completely ELIMINATE the performances for Best Song from the show and noone even seems to notice.

What does that say about the state of Music today?

They add live BREAKDANCING to the Best Score entries to spice it up? Huh?

What does that say about the attention-span of the audience that its not even entertainment enough to play the score nominees with the film clips anymore?


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## mf (Mar 8, 2010)

Singing to lyrics being replaced by dancing to music, sounds like a meaningful decision for a show that is celebrating the art of film. Pop performances are primadonas celebrating nothing but themselves. (for this precise reason, I would completely ELIMINATE pop songs from films.)
I liked the choreography number, it was one of the strongest moments of this show imo.


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## dcoscina (Mar 8, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Mon Mar 08 said:


> Imzadi @ Mon Mar 08 said:
> 
> 
> > choc0thrax @ Fri Mar 05 said:
> ...



I also thought the CG in D9 was a lot more 3 dimensional and organic compared to Avatar which still looked flat to me. 

Also, I heard that Cameron's acceptance speech from the Golden GLobes was so cocky that it hurt his Oscar chances. Glad Bigelow won for Director. I think Point Break is an awesome film too. It showed her to be a director who wouldn't let stereotypes get in her way. Congrats on her beating out her ex hubby.


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## choc0thrax (Mar 8, 2010)

Point Break is awesome. Love Swayze in that.


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## madbulk (Mar 8, 2010)

I dunno, Eric. Best song, for me, has long been overdone compared to score anyway. I don't want Paul McCartney out there singing garbage like Vanilla Sky. And they don't write The Way We Were anymore. There have been some really good songs, but so many mediocrities, I don't feel cheated out of the performances as much as I might've expected.
I was grateful that they let us hear a bit of each song and each score. It was enough for me.

And I'm glad Up won. His little waltz is gonna play in my head for the rest of my life.


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## madbulk (Mar 8, 2010)

I dunno, Eric. Best song, for me, has long been overdone compared to score anyway. I don't want Paul McCartney out there singing garbage like Vanilla Sky. And they don't write The Way We Were anymore. There have been some really good songs, but so many mediocrities, I don't feel cheated out of the performances as much as I might've expected.
I was grateful that they let us hear a bit of each song and each score. It was enough for me.

And I'm glad Up won. His little waltz is gonna play in my head for the rest of my life.


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## spectrum (Mar 8, 2010)

dcoscina @ Mon Mar 08 said:


> I also thought the CG in D9 was a lot more 3 dimensional and organic compared to Avatar which still looked flat to me.


D9 CGI was great, but did you see Avatar in Imax 3D?

To me, that was almost required viewing to see the film properly. In Imax 3D, the experience was pretty remarkable. In all other formats, it's a completely different and much less immersive experience.



> Also, I heard that Cameron's acceptance speech from the Golden GLobes was so cocky that it hurt his Oscar chances.


Nah.....wasn't that bad at all. You should see if for yourself. Way different than his over the top Oscar speech from Titanic days. He's actually been pretty gracious this time around....particularly to Katherine Bigelow.

No need to pound the guy. He's an innovator and a visionary and deserves respect or what he created.

Loved his talk at this year's TED conference on imagination for example:

http://www.ted.com/talks/james_cameron_before_avatar_a_curious_boy.html (http://www.ted.com/talks/james_cameron_ ... s_boy.html)



> Glad Bigelow won for Director. I think Point Break is an awesome film too. It showed her to be a director who wouldn't let stereotypes get in her way.


Yeah....was great that she won!


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## spectrum (Mar 8, 2010)

madbulk @ Mon Mar 08 said:


> I dunno, Eric. Best song, for me, has long been overdone compared to score anyway. I don't want Paul McCartney out there singing garbage like Vanilla Sky. And they don't write The Way We Were anymore. There have been some really good songs, but so many mediocrities, I don't feel cheated out of the performances as much as I might've expected.
> I was grateful that they let us hear a bit of each song and each score. It was enough for me.


To lose an opportunity to hear someone like Dr John perform live is a big deal I think. The guy is a living legend.

Sure, they should nominate better songs, but that's a whole other issue.

I thought the excepts they chose for the scores wasn't really great either.

Seriously, you guys thought that watching dancers do robot breakdancing was a good move to represent the scores?

That dance troupe is really talented....I just thought it was a very awkward fit at best and pretty laughably ridiculous at worst. We were literally laughing our heads off at it over at our house.

So I guess it was entertaining, but not in the way they intended.


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## dcoscina (Mar 8, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Mon Mar 08 said:


> Point Break is awesome. Love Swayze in that.



I also really like Isham's Skydive track. Pretty terrific music.


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## choc0thrax (Mar 8, 2010)

Almost forgot, did anyone notice this last night? http://www.popeater.com/2010/03/08/musi ... ?icid=main


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 8, 2010)

I enjoyed the moment when James Taylor played and sang "In My Life" in accompaniment to the "In Memoriam" montage. Nice Beatles rendition also.


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## kid-surf (Mar 8, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Mon Mar 08 said:


> Almost forgot, did anyone notice this last night? http://www.popeater.com/2010/03/08/musi ... ?icid=main



Yes, I thought someone should have put a silencer to that woman's head then kicked her lifeless body down the stairs, and off camera, so that he could finish being grateful.


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 8, 2010)

Yeah, seems that Oscar went right to her head.


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## synthetic (Mar 8, 2010)

I thought Hurt Locker was pretty silly because it was trying to be realistic but the guy is doing all of this stupid stuff, like walking around Baghdad by himself and suddenly he's a sniper, etc. But still a better film than Avatar (which I liked more than most people I know). 

I didn't think much of the score to Up, but whatever. Oscar voters like very simple scores that stay out of the way of ACTING which is where THE GENIUS lies. So the score that fits that description usually wins. Simple tune, stays out of the way. I thought Sherlock Holmes was the best because it was so different and fresh but whatever. I've stopped trying to care about who wins that award after the last few years. 

Yes the actual production of the show is horrific. The producers need to be strapped to chairs with Clockwork Orange clips on their eyes to watch the thing 5 times the next day. They should know this in advance and take it into consideration. Interpretive dance, YGBSM. Just get a quirky to play all of the themes, that would be so much better. Let alone an actual orchestra. 

I actually went to Old Hollywood to watch the awards, very entertaining.


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## kid-surf (Mar 8, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Mon Mar 08 said:


> madbulk @ Mon Mar 08 said:
> 
> 
> > lux @ Mon Mar 08 said:
> ...



Some people like jokes...including me. But I have to be honest, I've heard that one before, I'm certain he stole that joke. Probably from Choc0.


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## kid-surf (Mar 8, 2010)

Dancing:

The dude who directed the Oscars is Adam Shankman...choreographer, director of many a dance film, judge on So You Think You Can Dance.

My problem with it was that the choreography abandoned the #1 principle espoused on SYTYCD, and that little thingy Hollywood asks of its screenwriters (despite Hollywood's obsession with ruining it), which is: TELL A STORY.

Had the choreography cleverly told the story, in short form, of the film/film-score in question. Sold. And I'm familiar enough with these choreographers' works to know that they (Adam) could have accomplòŸˆ   ÈÍŸˆ   ÈÎŸˆ   ÈÏŸˆ   ÈÐŸˆ   ÈÑŸˆ   ÈÒŸˆ   ÈÓŸˆ   ÈÔŸˆ   ÈÕŸˆ   ÈÖŸˆ   È×Ÿˆ   ÈØŸˆ   ÈÙŸˆ   ÈÚŸˆ   ÈÛŸˆ   ÈÜŸˆ


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## lux (Mar 9, 2010)

kid-surf @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> I'm Brian's guest...thus, I take mine shaken not stirred. Thanks Luca, now run along and fetch me my bitches, by that I mean sandals. Which I'll wear as I go in search for my ho's.



who are you? disappear right now!!

nooo, not you mr Brian Sir, lobsters arent good as you expected, sorry. I'll take remedy. Some champagne?


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## Tanuj Tiku (Mar 9, 2010)

Billy Crystal should host the oscars every year!!!


He does a great job.


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## choc0thrax (Mar 9, 2010)

vibrato @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> Oh and sorry to disagree choc0thrax
> 
> but...Avatar had one of the worst scores I have heard in recent years.
> 
> ...



Umm what are we disagreeing about? I never said Avatar had a good score. I just don't really care for any of the nominated scores. I've listened to the Avatar score for about 4 minutes total this whole time since it came out. I guess I failed to mention in my first post that they're all almost tied for me.


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## madbulk (Mar 9, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> I seriously doubt that there is anyone here, with a few possible exceptions, who can write as good a score as Horner, Desplat, Beltrami, or Giacchino.



The hell, you say.

(please smile, Jay.)


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## madbulk (Mar 9, 2010)

kid-surf @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> Some people like jokes...including me. But I have to be honest, I've heard that one before, I'm certain he stole that joke. Probably from Choc0.



Death penalty for stealing jokes. I'd have given attribution if I thought it was Choc0's. It was innocent.

And if you wanna go on being my coat tail riding martini swiller, pipe down.


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## choc0thrax (Mar 9, 2010)

I steal all my jokes from Germancomponist anyways.


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## midphase (Mar 9, 2010)

Tanuj,

I think you should know that some of the people around here know these guys personally (Horner, Giacchino, etc)...and because of that I think some of the guys take negative comments a bit more personally than they should.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 9, 2010)

vibrato @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> *Ashermusic:*
> 
> 
> I dont understand what has me saying something about Avatar's score got to do with my musical skills or anyone else's on this forum?
> ...



1. I have not seen or heard Avatar's score yet but James Horner is a terrific film composer.

2. Where in my post did I mention your name?

3. Personally, I think it is wrong for unaccomplished people to knock accomplished people and so I comment on it when I see it.

4. If that drives some folks out of here who do so, I can live with it


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## lux (Mar 9, 2010)

Critical analysis of commercial artistic products is by far the oldest and most important activity when musicians grow up and learn. Its 101 praxis. Most, not to say all, accomplished musicians grew up analyzing and criticizing others' works. Dunno where the problem is


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## Ashermusic (Mar 9, 2010)

lux @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> Critical analysis of commercial artistic products is by far the oldest and most important activity when musicians grow up and learn. Its 101 praxis. Most, not to say all, accomplished musicians grew up analyzing and criticizing others' works. Dunno where the problem is



I know that not many of you agree with me but IMHO that while doing so in a dorm in college with your buddies is fine and valuable as a learning tool, since most of you are presumably beyond that stage of your life and are pros or semi-pros, doing so in a public forum, is merely in bad taste.


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## lux (Mar 9, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> lux @ Tue Mar 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Critical analysis of commercial artistic products is by far the oldest and most important activity when musicians grow up and learn. Its 101 praxis. Most, not to say all, accomplished musicians grew up analyzing and criticizing others' works. Dunno where the problem is
> ...



well that offers a vision of forums as mere technical info sharing places. I think forums are probably a different beast. I think the crossline between bad taste and good taste is in the manners. Avoiding every politely expressed critique reduces this place to a half-virtual-instruments-and-stuff-wiki without a soul.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 9, 2010)

lux @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> Ashermusic @ Tue Mar 09 said:
> 
> 
> > lux @ Tue Mar 09 said:
> ...



I think it is wrong attacking those who are not here to defend themselves. We are not discussing composers who have passed away but human beings with careers, families, etc. And this IS a virtual instruments forum even though this is an off topics sub-forum,

I accept that you and many others disagree but I am going to continue to call it as I see it.


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## lux (Mar 9, 2010)

no big deal, its an interesting topic itself.

My guess is that it has to do mostly with the perception of success. If the only debt success takes was being criticized on small sized forums by a bunch of pretty decent musicians, well i think successful artists would take that as the best scenario possible.

Reaching lot of people means reaching lot of brains as well. Its part of the game. A succesful and financially satisfied composer will never be able to defend himself again critiques on a worldwide basis. Thats just insane to think imho.

The fact you may know personally a few of those composers changes your perception of their success but its unable to change what i think is a crystal clear reality. 

And a game that people like James Horner and other greats had likely accepted so many years ago...


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Mar 9, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> I steal all my jokes from Germancomponist anyways.


 o-[][]-o


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## Ashermusic (Mar 9, 2010)

lux @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> no big deal, its an interesting topic itself.
> 
> My guess is that it has to do mostly with the perception of success. If the only debt success takes was being criticized on small sized forums by a bunch of pretty decent musicians, well i think successful artists would take that as the best scenario possible.
> 
> ...



Yes, I know this argument. It also maintains that celebrities have to understand that their success means that have to tolerate paparazzi haunting them and invading their privacy, their families, privacy. Its the price of success yada-yada-yada.

I don't buy it. It sucks. I don't expect to change the world, but it would be nice if maybe I make at least a few here possibly re-think it. 

Unlikely, I concede, but I give it the old college try


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Mar 9, 2010)

Some people naturally bash what's successful. Especially if it's from one of those "Evil" companies.


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## lux (Mar 9, 2010)

i never thought vicontrol as a paparazzi website, but this opens pretty new sights. 

But sure we haunt and invade. Seriously. I have a bunch of hairs from Horner's pet at my house. I use it for vodoo stuff, you know..


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## JJP (Mar 9, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> I seriously doubt that there is anyone here, with a few possible exceptions, who can write as good a score as Horner, Desplat, Beltrami, or Giacchino.
> 
> IMHO it illustrates what I have long believed to be largely true: that those who can, do, and those who can't instead criticize those who can.


There are some of us on this board who have worked on Oscar-nominated scores in various capacities and who also know and work with the musical crew for the Oscars ceremony. For that reason I too don't like the way some people criticize successful composers and other "successful" musicians here.

However, I also do not like the idea of any one of us broadly condemning the abilities of the majority of our fellow forum members. I'm afraid this comment only contributes to a harsh tone of inappropriate, possibly uninformed, public criticism. I don't think that was your intention, but I fear that may be the result.


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## synthetic (Mar 9, 2010)

[quote:81013bee1a="Ashermusic @ Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:46 pm"]1. I have not seen or heard Avatar's scorò    È88    È89    È8:    È8;    È8<    È8=    È8>    È8?    È[email protected]    È8A    È8B    È8C    È8D    È8E    È8F    È8G    È8H    È8I    È8J    È8K    È8L    È8M    È8N    È8O    È8P    È8Q    È8R    È8S    È8T 


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## Ashermusic (Mar 10, 2010)

JJP @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> Ashermusic @ Tue Mar 09 said:
> 
> 
> > I seriously doubt that there is anyone here, with a few possible exceptions, who can write as good a score as Horner, Desplat, Beltrami, or Giacchino.
> ...



There are a great number of people here who in fact do not indulge in that behavior so I am not "broadly condemning the abilities of the majority of forum members.

Do a little experiment for yourself and over the next couple of months make a mental note of the ones that do and do not, visit their websites, see their credits and listen to their music, and then draw your own conclusions. I think you will find that the ones who are actually doing professional work are the least likely to be doing this. If I am correct, than my statement becomes quite simply a fact.


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## lux (Mar 10, 2010)

JJP @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> However, I also do not like the idea of any one of us broadly condemning the abilities of the majority of our fellow forum members. I'm afraid this comment only contributes to a harsh tone of inappropriate, possibly uninformed, public criticism. I don't think that was your intention, but I fear that may be the result.



thats one of Jay's favourite activities here. It also tends to average people from different places and with different opportunities under his nice "show me your credits" game.

The other one is funny jokes about language inabilities of non-native english speakers which i expecially love.


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## midphase (Mar 10, 2010)

I would like to add a couple of points:

First of all, I think it's natural to hold those in the news to higher standards than the rest of us in the slums....as such when one of the top guys clearly "phones it in" I think the least that we can do is call him out on it!

Secondly, I've long maintained that we work in an industry which does not necessarily reward talent or hard work. I think some of us doing dumpy indie stuff have to work twice as hard to sound half as good. So lack of accomplishments is not an indication that we don't know what the hell we're talking about. Give me a dozen assistants, legendary orchestrators, engineers, and access to the world's top scoring stages and orchestras and I guarantee you that even the worst of us will sound like the best.


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## madbulk (Mar 10, 2010)

lux @ Wed Mar 10 said:


> The other one is funny jokes about language inabilities of non-native english speakers which i expecially love.


expecially, eh?


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## Ashermusic (Mar 10, 2010)

lux @ Wed Mar 10 said:


> JJP @ Tue Mar 09 said:
> 
> 
> > However, I also do not like the idea of any one of us broadly condemning the abilities of the majority of our fellow forum members. I'm afraid this comment only contributes to a harsh tone of inappropriate, possibly uninformed, public criticism. I don't think that was your intention, but I fear that may be the result.
> ...



That was wrong of me when I have done so and you are correct to call me to task for it.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 10, 2010)

midphase @ Wed Mar 10 said:


> I would like to add a couple of points:
> 
> First of all, I think it's natural to hold those in the news to higher standards than the rest of us in the slums....as such when one of the top guys clearly "phones it in" I think the least that we can do is call him out on it!
> 
> Secondly, I've long maintained that we work in an industry which does not necessarily reward talent or hard work. I think some of us doing dumpy indie stuff have to work twice as hard to sound half as good. So lack of accomplishments is not an indication that we don't know what the hell we're talking about. Give me a dozen assistants, legendary orchestrators, engineers, and access to the world's top scoring stages and orchestras and I guarantee you that even the worst of us will sound like the best.



Good post but I see 3 problems with what you have written, Kays. 

One is that as you know full well, frequently we write the score that is demanded of us. Cameron is notoriously hands on so it could well be that what some are describing as Horner phoning it in are merely his giving Cameron what he as demanded.

Secondly, some dissed ALL the nominated scores. Would any reasonable person really maintain that ALL of them were either phoned in or done by guys who are not that talented?

Finally, while you may indeed be one of them, I really doubt that there are more than a handful here that even with Conrad Pope orchestrating, a top notch conductor on a great scoring stage with Shawn Murphy engineering could turn in a score that is better than what ALL of the 5 nominees composed. One perhaps, but all 5? I am not buying it.


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## madbulk (Mar 10, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Wed Mar 10 said:


> lux @ Wed Mar 10 said:
> 
> 
> > The other one is funny jokes about language inabilities of non-native english speakers which i expecially love.
> ...



Okay, in general, yes. 
But that one time was funny.


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## synthetic (Mar 10, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Wed Mar 10 said:


> Finally, while you may indeed be one of them, I really doubt that there are more than a handful here that even with Conrad Pope orchestrating, a top notch conductor on a great scoring stage with Shawn Murphy engineering could turn in a score that is better than what ALL of the 5 nominees composed. One perhaps, but all 5? I am not buying it.



So the only critics are those that can do better? Did Roger Ebert make a better film than The Godfather? Did Edward R. Murrow run a country? 

Why do you waste time with us hacks? 

Why not state your reason why the Oscar nominees are so well written, which would add something to the conversation?


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## George Caplan (Mar 12, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Tue Mar 09 said:


> I seriously doubt that there is anyone here, with a few possible exceptions, who can write as good a score as Horner, Desplat, Beltrami, or Giacchino.
> 
> IMHO it illustrates what I have long believed to be largely true: that those who can, do, and those who can't instead criticize those who can.



completely agree with that last bit and i also doubt that horner desplat beltrami or giacchino could write a score as good as goldsmith herrmann bernstein or barry.


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## EnTaroAdun (Mar 12, 2010)

Yeah exactly ... you are only allowed to criticize somewthing, if you can do it better ... :roll:



I have to agree vibrato.
The Avatar score was not "not good", it was bad ... very bad.
The main theme is not even _that_ bad, but was used rather clumsy most of the time.
The music in the battle scenes belongs to the worst I've ever heard.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 12, 2010)

EnTaroAdun @ Fri Mar 12 said:


> Yeah exactly ... you are only allowed to criticize somewthing, if you can do it better ... :roll:



Edit that to "you are only wise to criticize something publicly, if you have demonstrated that you can at least do it adequately" and yes, that is my position.

You can roll your eyes all you want but if we all held ourselves to that standard, I think it would be a nicer world.

Thich Nhat Hahn wrote: "Before you speak (write), ask yourself: Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary? Does it improve on the silence?”

And before someone points it out, yes, I need to do that here also. I will try.


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## EnTaroAdun (Mar 12, 2010)

It'd be a nicer world, if everyone could just say what he thinks, without people commenting on it like:
"Who are YOU to criticize HIM? You have no right to talk."

That's _my_ position.


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## bryla (Mar 12, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Fri Mar 12 said:


> "Before you speak (write), ask yourself: ... Does it improve on the silence?”


Just this question is actually the essence Jay. If only everybody had this mantra


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## choc0thrax (Mar 12, 2010)

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3i474fda2d02866bfd83562ae66c9a5e91?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+thr/film+%28The+Hollywood+Reporter+-+Film%29 (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/con ... +-+Film%29)

Looks like they might re-release Avatar in the summer! But they're only adding about 40 minutes grrrr! Can't wait to see Tsu'tey get drunk, he was totally a scene stealer.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 12, 2010)

EnTaroAdun @ Fri Mar 12 said:


> It'd be a nicer world, if everyone could just say what he thinks, without people commenting on it like:
> "Who are YOU to criticize HIM? You have no right to talk."
> 
> That's _my_ position.



Understood, but I simply disagree. And I never said anyone in that position did not have a RIGHT to talk, only that it was wrong to do so. 

Because one can does not mean one should.


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## EnTaroAdun (Mar 12, 2010)

So now it's _wrong_ to speak out my opinion on filmmusic?
This is ridiculous.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 12, 2010)

EnTaroAdun @ Fri Mar 12 said:


> So now it's _wrong_ to speak out my opinion on filmmusic?
> This is ridiculous.



If you are not accomplished and educated on the subject, yes. If you are, discussing it is fine but attacking individual composer's work is just not a very professional choice IMHO. 

I don't expect to convince you but that is the way I see it. If you look at the guys in this forum who actually do work a lot you will find that few of them do so very much. I don't believe that is a coincidence. 

Once again, Thich Nhat Hahn wrote: "Before you speak (write), ask yourself: Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary? Does it improve on the silence?”


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## synthetic (Mar 12, 2010)

Thanks for that advice. I will also hold my tongue on political matters, because I don't have an education on that. I should also refrain from comment on legal debates, since I don't have a law degree. Maybe I shouldn't offer my opinion on recipes and health matters, because I'm neither a chef nor a doctor. 

Oh crap, I just became as boring as Jay.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 12, 2010)

synthetic @ Fri Mar 12 said:


> Thanks for that advice. I will also hold my tongue on political matters, because I don't have an education on that. I should also refrain from comment on legal debates, since I don't have a law degree. Maybe I shouldn't offer my opinion on recipes and health matters, because I'm neither a chef nor a doctor.
> 
> Oh crap, I just became as boring as Jay.



OK, re: political matters you have an obligation as a citizen to educate yourself. And yes, even though they have a right to, people who do not understand what they are voting on would be well advised not to.

And while I might express an opinion on whether a verdict is just or not, I would not go to a lawyer's forum and specifically criticize the way a defense lawyer presented his case because I think I would be deemed a fool for doing so.

And while you might state your opinion on health matters, surely you would concede that it is not equally as valid as a doctor's and therefore not all that valuable, wouldn't you?

OK, I have said all I have to say. I won't bore you further


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## EnTaroAdun (Mar 12, 2010)

I think, people should not comment on things, they have no clue about.
But you don't need to be able to compose great music to be able to judge music.



Ashermusic @ 2010-03-12 said:


> If you look at the guys in this forum who actually do work a lot you will find that few of them do so very much. I don't believe that is a coincidence.


It has to do with them being not anonymous here. In this business (as many others) it's often not a good idea to speak out your honest opinion if it's negative.


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## synthetic (Mar 12, 2010)

The other day someone told me a really funny joke, but I could not laugh because I wasn't a comedian. 

OK, I'll stop. 

/lastword


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Mar 12, 2010)

The Oscar nominated scores I believe should've been there. However, we're not talking about orchestration technique, theory, voice leading, keyboard harmony, performance, engineering, etc when it comes to Oscars. We're talking about how well the score fit with and enhanced the film.


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## choc0thrax (Mar 15, 2010)

I recently posted that Avatar may be coming back this summer but it appears that's not the only thing coming back:

http://in.news.yahoo.com/20/20100315/38 ... in-3d.html

It's good to see Billy Zane's toupee will reboot it's career in glorious 3-D.


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