# Poll: Is the computer an instrument?



## ghostnote (Apr 27, 2017)

Simple question.


----------



## JPQ (Apr 27, 2017)

Of course if you can play it its musical instrument.


----------



## mc_deli (Apr 27, 2017)

Maybe


----------



## d.healey (Apr 27, 2017)

Of course, I can whack it with a drum stick therefore it's a drum


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 27, 2017)

Not for me. I think of it as an extension of my brain.


----------



## shangsean (Apr 27, 2017)

Of course not. I mean Kontakt instruments aren't even instruments. They're just a collection of recordings that just happen to to trigger the correct note when you press the corresponding key.


----------



## chimuelo (Apr 27, 2017)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Not for me. I think of it as an extension of my brain.


Quote of the week....


----------



## Rctec (Apr 27, 2017)

shangsean said:


> Of course not. I mean Kontakt instruments aren't even instruments. They're just a collection of recordings that just happen to to trigger the correct note when you press the corresponding key.


You mean like a 17th century Pipe Organ?


----------



## Rctec (Apr 27, 2017)




----------



## Gerhard Westphalen (Apr 27, 2017)

Of course but I think about it more as the software it's running being the instrument rather than the computer itself. I guess @Rctec organ point could counteract that argument since each different sound on the organ isn't a different instrument in and of itself.

If 3 people are all playing completely different sounds using completely different UI devices (keyboard, drum pads, motion sensors, etc.) but it's all running off of 1 computer is there only 1 "instrument" present?


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Apr 27, 2017)

Does it matter?

What's important is that you learn it _*like *_an instrument.


----------



## NoamL (Apr 27, 2017)

Anything that makes a sound can be an instrument. But it has to actually make the sound not just play back the sound. 

I guess there is a grey area where, if you add a significant amount of post processing, that's controllable, in real time, to a sound then it is arguable that you are "making" the sound not playing back a recorded sound.


----------



## Robo Rivard (Apr 27, 2017)

My arse can make some great trombone sounds!...


----------



## Farkle (Apr 27, 2017)

ghostnote said:


> Simple question.



Simple Answer.

No.


----------



## Nmargiotta (Apr 27, 2017)

Instrument YES

Musical instrument NO


----------



## ctsai89 (Apr 27, 2017)

no. Your (opitional) sample library + (required) DAW + your computer/screen/studio monitor + (optional) midi keyboard) is an instrument.


----------



## Kent (Apr 27, 2017)

It is, or can be, to the same extent that a corporeal symphonic orchestra is "an" instrument!

...whether or not you like the sounds as much, of course, is up to you


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 28, 2017)

Name me an instrument that can launch a nuclear strike, create wedding invitations, drive a car, and play Go better than any human.


----------



## Svyato (Apr 28, 2017)

I think computer and art of mixing / D.A.W. can easily be taken as proper musical instruments. At least, I do.


----------



## Kejero (Apr 28, 2017)

Hah. Anyone who says a computer isn't an instrument is suffering from a very narrowminded view and is limiting themselves. But by all means, follow the rules!


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Apr 28, 2017)

Kejero said:


> Hah. Anyone who says a computer isn't an instrument is suffering from a very narrowminded view and is limiting themselves. But by all means, follow the rules!


Thanks for the encouragement?


----------



## d.healey (Apr 28, 2017)

Maybe we need a definition of computer since a digital piano is a computer with a keyboard interface and I'm petty certain that's an instrument


----------



## garyhiebner (Apr 28, 2017)

Its a musical instrument, until you run into a technical difficulty. Then its a PITA!


----------



## babylonwaves (Apr 28, 2017)

ghostnote said:


> Simple question.


pretty much all modern, electronic instruments have computers inside. so it's not really a question but our reality. unless you define what you mean by "computer" - i guess you mean personal computer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_musical_instrument

edit: @d.healey beat me on that one


----------



## stixman (Apr 28, 2017)

This IS a joke I hope!


----------



## muk (Apr 28, 2017)

Depends on your definition of 'musical instrument'. To be lazy and quote Wiki: 'A *musical instrument* is an instrument created or adapted to make musical sounds. In principle, any object that produces sound can be a musical instrument—it is through purpose that the object becomes a musical instrument'. By that definition, any computer that is adapted to make musical sounds, and used to that purpose, is an instrument.


----------



## C.R. Rivera (Apr 28, 2017)

It seems to me that if an object is capable of producing any impulse it can be an instrument. Witness early man beating two rocks together, or, stamping their feet. However, one wonders whether in the year 2525, will man still be alive.  Only the oldsters will get the reference.


----------



## Soundhound (Apr 28, 2017)

This reminds me of the discussion when Dylan 'went electric'. Some interesting distinctions drawn, which is how conventions in thought progress. In the end though, hasn't really got anything to do with making music. Mike Bloomfield and Al Cooper, and Levon Helm and Rick Danko playing with Dylan, that's making music.


----------



## Leon Willett (Apr 28, 2017)

In my opinion, a computer with sample libraries is an instrument because you can use it to make music


----------



## URL (Apr 28, 2017)

Computer is not a instrument, computer often compensate the lack of being able to extract an instrument for what an instrument is intended for.
However, for this reason, it is still possible to create music based on different feelings that go through a computer to host, for example, sampling libraries.

Its better to play arpeggios for a instrument with your hands on a instrument and feel then use a computer based machine...

Computers is great for recording what you just played with your fingers or mouth thats my opinion.


----------



## C.R. Rivera (Apr 28, 2017)

URL said:


> Computer is not a instrument, computer often compensate the lack of being able to extract an instrument for what an instrument is intended for.
> However, for this reason, it is still possible to create music based on different feelings that go through a computer to host, for example, sampling libraries.
> 
> Its better to play arpeggios for a instrument with your hands on a instrument and feel then use a computer based machine...
> ...



If I might reply here, does anyone remember when synths first came? The purists said pretty much the same. In addition, the mellotron, which is not a computer, was also criticized in the same vain. I suspect Mike Pinder, Rick Wakeman, Tony Banks, et al., probably feel pretty worthless playing a "non-instrument." [But, they got some beautiful wall hangings called 'gold records']


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 28, 2017)

My point is not that a computer cannot be an instrument, but rather that it can be that, it can become an instrument, but since it does so much more, it's closer to a human than a guitar or a saxophone. Then again, my favourite instrument of all time is Ella Fitzgerald!


----------



## URL (Apr 28, 2017)

If we are talking musical instrument here or are we talking tools for been creative in composer setup?

If we are talking musical instrument.
You can't play violin on a keyboard-it do not sound the same as a violin player plays on a real instrument.

If you play a modular synth with keyboard as a person okey you play a musical instrument.
Computer is a tool for been creative in different areas... recording knobs moment to a Daw from a synth etc.
Swinging knobs for filters and LFOs etc is sound design in my opinion.


----------



## Ashermusic (Apr 28, 2017)

To me, it's not an instrument, but it can be dealt with as if it were.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 28, 2017)

And physical modelling, dsp synths, etc.


----------



## pbattersby (Apr 28, 2017)

I think of the computer as a tool - a thing that plays back sounds, like a tape recorder. My MIDI controller is the instrument. I don't play the computer, I play the MIDI keyboard. If I draw notes in my DAW, it's still a tool just like staff paper and a pen.


----------



## Pietro (Apr 28, 2017)

To me, if something transforms human creative input into sounds, it's an instrument all right.

- Piotr


----------



## pbattersby (Apr 28, 2017)

Pietro said:


> To me, if something transforms human creative input into sounds, it's an instrument all right



By that description, wouldn't a set of speakers or headphones be considered an instrument? They take creative human input and transform that into sounds by causing the surrounding air to vibrate just like a drum or any other traditional musical instrument.


----------



## MarcusMaximus (Apr 28, 2017)

Of course it's not an instrument, in and of itself. It is a device which can store sounds and if you connect another device to it which can trigger those sounds, like a midi keyboard, then I think that whole setup could be described as an instrument. Whether striking the keys causes a bunch of hammers to impact on certain strings or to trigger a bunch of samples or other sounds in an electronic device makes little difference IMO. Once the physical act of striking the keys causes a sound source to respond and produce a musical note or other sound, then it can qualify as a musical instrument. It's only the technology that is used to produce the sound that is different.


----------



## Pietro (Apr 28, 2017)

pbattersby said:


> By that description, wouldn't a set of speakers or headphones be considered an instrument? They take creative human input and transform that into sounds by causing the surrounding air to vibrate just like a drum or any other traditional musical instrument.



Yes, and so they can become an instrument too. Your hands, feet, metal objects, kitchen tools, freaking animal guts or gunpowder cannons. If you use them to create music (in a very wide definition of it), they become instruments.

This is one of the ways a piano or organs have become an instrument, although I bet someone in the old times looked at those hellish machines for the first time and said "Are you kidding me? Lute is an instrument, shawm if a fine instrument too. I understand you can play drums, but this? F&@k this s&@t".

- Piotr


----------



## airflamesred (Apr 28, 2017)

I realise I'm not helping here, But how on earth did this thread get to 3 pages?


----------



## URL (Apr 28, 2017)

Far to little to do... compose on a real instrument instead.


----------



## FriFlo (Apr 29, 2017)

It certainly can be a creative tool, but an instrument? Maybe you could call the keyboard attached to it an instrument. But a computer offers nothing of the direct interaction and year-long learning experience a real instrument does. Even electronical substitutes for the real instruments (like an electric Piano) do not offer that kind of feeling and relationship. A computer is simply a tool, which can be used.
If you voted for yes, you should honestly try to really learn an instrument, otherwise you might be missing something important in music ...


----------



## gregh (Apr 29, 2017)

I dont think the computer is an instrument - the analogy I would make is with a violin or a guitar. No-one would think that the wood they are made from is an instrument until it takes on the form of an instrument (such as violin or guitar). Similarly the computer is not an instrument but the form that it takes might be


----------



## JonSolo (Apr 29, 2017)

A guitar was designed to be a musical instrument. It really can't be much else.

A piano was designed to be a musical instrument. It really can't be much else.

Spoons were designed to be used to eat with but were repurposed as a musical instrument.

Computers are more like spoons. They have been repurposed in some cases to be musical instruments but they can be other things as well. But their design was not originally intended to serve a musical purpose like a guitar or piano.

So I would have to say it IS an instrument but not a musical instrument by design. It must be repurposed to fit that terminology.

What do you play? Oh I play the piano.

What do you play? I play a little guitar.

What do you play? Oh I am proficient at the computer....hmm...nope doesn't work.


----------



## ranaprathap (Apr 29, 2017)

I use my computer keyboard to input notes into my Piano Roll, and I don't use a MIDI controller.

This makes my laptop my sole musical instrument. 

What about EDM producers who use launchpad attached to their laptop to play live? Doesn't that make the computer their instrument?


----------



## Pietro (Apr 29, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> If you voted for yes, you should honestly try to really learn an instrument, otherwise you might be missing something important in music ...



I wouldn't make the assumption, that people who voted yes, don't play any other instruments . 

- Piotr


----------



## lp59burst (Apr 29, 2017)

airflamesred said:


> I realise I'm not helping here, But how on earth did this thread get to 3 pages?


Slow day at the office maybe...? 

As to the Poll question.... It's not a "simple question". You asked if it's an instrument then yes, but then, by that definition, so is a scalpel and pen. It's more of a tool and not a "musical" instrument... if it's a "musical" instrument then so is my CD player, smart phone, my car radio...


----------



## JonSolo (Apr 29, 2017)

ranaprathap said:


> I use my computer keyboard to input notes into my Piano Roll, and I don't use a MIDI controller.
> 
> This makes my laptop my sole musical instrument.
> 
> What about EDM producers who use launchpad attached to their laptop to play live? Doesn't that make the computer their instrument?



The question is not "can the computer be USED as an instrument". The question as stated "IS the computer an instrument". 

There is no question that the computer CAN BE USED as an instrument. Most reasonable (subjective) people would likely say "yes" simply because a LOT of non-musical things can be used as an instrument.

But musical instruments (a least ones I consider real) serve NO OTHER PURPOSE. Therefore, a launchpad WOULD be a musical instrument because it was created solely with music as its intent. A computer on the other hand would not be a musical instrument if I were creating graphics, doing my homework, crunching a database, etc. Try doing those things with a musical instrument and see how far you get.

A computer is a multi-use tool. Music is one of its uses. And it CAN be USED as a musical instrument.

And I guess I am contributing to getting to a 4th page...


----------



## Saxer (Apr 29, 2017)

I would compare a computer musicwise to the wood of a violin body. 
If the wood is lucky it will become part of a musical instrument.


----------



## Replicant (Apr 29, 2017)

One of my former professors turned his old Mac into a synthesizer.

So I'd say yes.


----------



## marclawsonmusic (Apr 29, 2017)

After reading responses like @FriFlo's below, I think I am going to quit this forum...



FriFlo said:


> If you voted for yes, you should honestly try to really learn an instrument, otherwise you might be missing something important in music ...


----------



## G.R. Baumann (Apr 30, 2017)

hmmm... a tool made or found to interact with to generate sound, perhaps?

To be considered a master virituous, you invested in excess of 10,000 hours to reach that stage, and not too long ago, we really narrowed that down to acoustic sound generators only, triggered by breath, strings or beating the crap out of drums or the likes.... behold, then we started to use electricity.

I think it is plain wrong to consider Kontakt for example not an instrument, since the way I play, aftertouch, velocity and so on, varies the tone.

So yes, by all means, a computer, used in a specific way, is an instrument. Further, no one would object a digital synthesiser to be an instrument, I guess.

But.... why do you ask?


----------



## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 30, 2017)

Computers are made of atoms. Loree oboes are made of atoms. Haynes flutes are made of atoms. Woodwind players are made of atoms. When there is a beta decay from radioactivity, a neutrino or an anti neutrino is emitted depending on whether it is a positron or a normal beta particle. Do you really wish to get into this discussion? Would not a more interesting question be is the instrument a computer? That one I am geared up for. This one is boring to me. Just joking as always. I am laughing. Sorry, I laugh at my own jokes when nobody else does. It is a character flaw.


----------



## TGV (Apr 30, 2017)

For some it is, for most it isn't. A record player with an LP is not a musical instrument, but some people use it to create sounds from scratch (ok, bad pun). An oil barrel isn't a musical instrument, but it can be turned into one. Likewise, a computer is –for most people– a tool, but for others an instrument, most obviously those who program it to generate sound waves. Many of us would fall somewhere in between: it's not quite an instrument, but we do use it to make music, like the frame of a piano.


----------



## FriFlo (Apr 30, 2017)

marclawsonmusic said:


> After reading responses like @FriFlo's below, I think I am going to quit this forum...


Marc, if you took that as an offense, I am sorry. I did not intend to attack anybody. But it is out of my imagination, how someone could compare the two - the instrument, crafted by human hand and improved over centuries, giving a human being intimate control over sound and than the PC (or Mac) that is certainly a fine accomplishment of human technology, but nonetheless bares no resemblance to the other ...
If you think, a PC is an instrument, fine! But there is no need to feel attacked, when I just find that crazy talk ...


----------



## d.healey (Apr 30, 2017)

TGV said:


> For some it is, for most it isn't.


The poll says otherwise


----------



## marclawsonmusic (Apr 30, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> Marc, if you took that as an offense, I am sorry. I did not intend to attack anybody. But it is out of my imagination, how someone could compare the two - the instrument, crafted by human hand and improved over centuries, giving a human being intimate control over sound and than the PC (or Mac) that is certainly a fine accomplishment of human technology, but nonetheless bares no resemblance to the other ...
> If you think, a PC is an instrument, fine! But there is no need to feel attacked, when I just find that crazy talk ...



I did not feel attacked nor did I take your comment personally. I just found it to be highly ignorant and dismissive.

Your point comparing hand-crafted instruments to modern technology is a valid one... but so also is Hans' analogy that the computer is much like the old pipe organ. The computer is a tool and it takes a great deal of craft to create with it. To be dismissive of that seems very naive to me.


----------



## FriFlo (Apr 30, 2017)

marclawsonmusic said:


> I did not feel attacked nor did I take your comment personally. I just found it to be highly ignorant and dismissive.
> 
> Your point comparing hand-crafted instruments to modern technology is a valid one... but so also is Hans' analogy that the computer is much like the old pipe organ. The computer is a tool and it takes a great deal of craft to create with it. To be dismissive of that seems very naive to me.


Indeed, I consider a keyboard or a pipe organ less an instrument then a string or wind instrument (although I only play keys and a tiny bit of guitar). But as soon as digital comes into play, there is always missing something. Even with the most innovative inventions, like the Roli Seaboard, which is way more capable in terms of expression than my piano. If someone would ask, wether a Seaboard is a musical instrument, it would be a difficult question. With a computer, it is out of the question to me. Fine! Others see it differently and they are allowed to. I am just saying, if so many people here other forum don't share that feeling, I get the impression I am in the wrong place here, to be honest ... and I am by no means anti technology or anything like that. A physical instrument is however its own thing in my mind and it cannot be replaced by technology.


----------



## TGV (Apr 30, 2017)

d.healey said:


> The poll says otherwise


It's all opinions, isn't it? Otherwise it wouldn't be much of a poll.

But if it's not a real instrument, perhaps we can call it a virtual instrument.


----------



## Dietz (Apr 30, 2017)

Q: Is the Computer an Instrument?
A: Definitely maybe.


----------



## ghobii (Apr 30, 2017)

Wow.
I think this is secretely some kind of personality test for the members of this forum.


----------



## novaburst (Apr 30, 2017)

Paul Grymaud said:


> The question is uncomplete. "Musical" instrument ? If so, NO.



This of course is the correct answer, there are many instruments but have nothing to do with music, so if I used word and excel and a graphic software and never at one time used any music software would you have ask the same question no you would not,

Are you now gong to say is your computer a secretary because I use word and excel and draft up the project meetings every day, no

What the computer is, is simply a host that can host what ever you want but because you may create music every day with it does not change what it is, the computer loads your instruments that's it, weather it be standalone or through your DAW,

So a more correct question would be is your cumputer an intelligent storage device.


----------



## Pietro (Apr 30, 2017)

Is piano an instrument? Yes. However, it can also double as an expensive table. It's the use for music, that makes it a musical instrument.

Same goes for a computer. I doubt the question was if any computer can be called an instrument. We are on a musicians forum. Computer here is a set of devices, equiped with musical software and proper input interface purposed for music creation. So again, yes. Or are we talking about office computers and pianos, guitars or violins without strings? Which you can definitely still use as an instrument btw (all of the above). Even a computer without OS. And turned off (I'm taking it to the extremes on purpose).

I would have more doubts if anyone asked me if a flute in vacuum can still be called an instrument.

- Piotr


----------



## novaburst (Apr 30, 2017)

Pietro said:


> Is piano an instrument? Yes. However, it can also double as an expensive table. It's the use for music, that makes it a musical instrument.
> 
> Same goes for a computer. I doubt the question was if any computer can be called an instrument. We are on a musicians forum. Computer here is a set of devices, equiped with musical software and proper input interface purposed for music creation. So again, yes. Or are we talking about office computers and pianos, guitars or violins without strings? Which you can definitely still use as an instrument btw (all of the above). Even a computer without OS. And turned off (I'm taking it to the extremes on purpose).
> 
> ...



Yes and how long is a peace of string this augment can go on until Judgment ....knock your self out dude


----------

