# Poll: ILok Licenses on Dongle or Computer Hard Drive?



## mjsalam (Dec 5, 2021)

Wasn't entirely sure where to put this one. Now that a dongle free Cubase is in sight I have been considering my iLok usage. I move between laptop and desktop often. Currently all licenses are on physical iLok - which on the laptop at least means the annoyance of a dongle poking out all the time. I have often considered storing the licenses (at least those which can be) on the laptop hard drive and ditching the dongle but am paranoid in the event that the laptop dies or I do a full OS reinstall and forget to move the licenses off the laptop first. Wondering how many keep iLok licenses on the the computer itself vs on the iLok itself and what considerations are there in choosing to do so?


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## RogiervG (Dec 5, 2021)

as you said, the "on computer" license activation is dangerous. If your computer crashes, or you do a reinstall for some reason (and you forgot to withdraw the activation in the license in ilok manager) you loose an activation slot for that license (even if the computername remains the same, it will see it as another device). I've lost several license activations that way, for some tools. Since then i always use the dongle.

If the vendor uses ilok cloud (different licensing tech from pace), however, this is less the case, since you activate with the cloud (login etc). However the computer is required constant internet connection when using the tool that uses ilok cloud licensing.


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## easyrider (Dec 5, 2021)

Ilok licences stay on ilok


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## Henu (Dec 5, 2021)

I trust the dongle more than I trust Microsoft.


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## Franklin (Dec 5, 2021)

It is obvious that the security techniques used by software vendors have hardly worked. It is a futile attempt to secure software that increasingly restricts the user and is also an illusion. Almost everything from Cubase has been cracked, iLok (UVI) security cracked recently. Software vendors would have us believe that their software is or will be more secure, but it is obvious that every new security is also a new challenge for crackers. I have seen that cracked versions of software could be downloaded even before they were officially online!

Make the software cheaper, omit the fake security, and sell like never before. When will the software vendors wake up? Whatever Cubase or other vendor comes up with, it will be cracked!

Just fort the record, all my software are legal versions!


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## RogiervG (Dec 5, 2021)

Franklin said:


> It is obvious that the security techniques used by software vendors have hardly worked. It is a futile attempt to secure software that increasingly restricts the user and is also an illusion. Almost everything from Cubase has been cracked, iLok (UVI) security cracked recently. Software vendors would have us believe that their software is or will be more secure, but it is obvious that every new security is also a new challenge for crackers. I have seen that cracked versions of software could be downloaded even before they were officially online!
> 
> Make the software cheaper, omit the fake security, and sell like never before. When will the software vendors wake up? Whatever Cubase or other vendor comes up with, it will be cracked!
> 
> Just fort the record, all my software are legal versions!


It's not that it cannot be circumvented... it's about making it increasingy harder to do (allmost that is so time consuming, they will give up). Also because if this, the use factor of those illegal license use (by bypassing these anti piracy tech), is smaller. (often its a cat and mouse situation: software cracked -> tech updated -> needs recracking -> takes a long time to crack -> gets cracked -> tech updated etc etc etc)


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## Quasar (Dec 5, 2021)

Shouldn't you have a category for "none of the above"? 

All control-freak, coporofascist protection rackets are unacceptable.


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## Franklin (Dec 5, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> It's not that it cannot be circumvented... it's about making it increasingy harder to do (allmost that is so time consuming, they will give up). Also because if this, the use factor of those illegal license use (by bypassing these anti piracy tech), is smaller. (often its a cat and mouse situation: software cracked -> tech updated -> needs recracking -> takes a long time to crack -> gets cracked -> tech updated etc etc etc)


A day after an update cracked versions are available for download. It doesn't make sense to come up with better protection and keep restricting users more and more. Software vendors will never win and it's time they realize that.


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## RogiervG (Dec 5, 2021)

Franklin said:


> A day after an update cracked versions are available for download. It doesn't make sense to come up with better protection and keep restricting users more and more. Software vendors will never win and it's time they realize that.


Well, i bet these quick cracks can't be stable, or very useful. (the rush to get it done.. )
Also i wouldn't be suprised if it is invested with malware too. (keyloggers, maybe even ransomware)
(let those pirates infest their machines.... with those things.. good riddens i'd say!)


Oh well, i don't mind..
The protection works nicely in majority of cases, dongles and online activation tech. 
I can say: i payed for it, and it feels good.


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## Franklin (Dec 5, 2021)

I think vendors should put more time into fixing bugs and improve software by LISTENING to their users instead of creating "better" protection which is an illusion.


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## Franklin (Dec 5, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> Well, i bet these quick cracks can't be stable, or very useful. (the rush to get it done.. )
> Also i wouldn't be suprised if it is invested with malware too. (keyloggers, maybe even ransomware)


Some cracks have appeared to work better and faster than the original version, believe it or not.


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## RogiervG (Dec 5, 2021)

Franklin said:


> Some cracks have appeared to work better and faster than the original version, believe it or not.


Sure, but where they released very quickly (within 1 to 3 days after official release)? where they ilok or elicenser circumventions? or other tech? (like arturia's or Native-intruments systems)?
Even if it was ilok / e-licenser, there are always exceptions.. i guess.

Look, i used to be on the same idea as you are now...
But now years later, i think it's not that bad, to try to prevent bypassing protections, by means of innovations in that area. (ilok is improving, other tech is implemented here and there.. )
It leads to lesser use of pirated copies.. any gain in that area is a win in my book.
even if marginally... it is still good to take away the pleasure of the pirates.

And yes,, dongles used to be a nightmare, a problem area in stability (physically and software).
Nowadays, ilok is very stable, works 9/10 times without a hitch. Same for most other tech used, like activation software managers etc.

Sure piracy remains a thing, and you cannot (at this time anyway), prevent it from happening.
But i understand why vendors/developers try to slow down the use of cracks.


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## Franklin (Dec 5, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> Sure, but where they released very quickly (within 1 to 3 days after official release)? where they ilok or elicenser circumventions? or other tech? (like arturia's or Native-intruments systems)?
> Even if it was ilok / e-licenser, there are always exceptions.. i guess.


Steinberg, Native Instruments, UVI, VI Labs, Arturia and the list goes on and on, all cracked!


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## RogiervG (Dec 5, 2021)

Franklin said:


> Steinberg, Native Instruments, UVI, VI Labs, Arturia and the list goes on and on, all cracked!


I know... but it's about the timeframe, the stability, etc... A crack in it's own says nothing, about how well it works.. and for what version of the cracked sotware..
If it starts, and works for a few minutes.. well.. still not saying much. It might crash on a crucial activity with the software (e.g. exporting audio, or loading certain patches crashing the software): aka not stable. (so not much use for the pirates there)

anyway, we're getting too offtopic. The question in play is: on machine activation vs dongle (ilok), not the ethics of tech's like Ilok.


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## mjsalam (Dec 5, 2021)

Quasar said:


> Shouldn't you have a category for "none of the above"?
> 
> All control-freak, coporofascist protection rackets are unacceptable.


Good point. Added.


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## Franklin (Dec 5, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> I know... but it's about the timeframe, the stability, etc...


Some cracked within a day, others a week or longer, but the point i'm trying to make is that we are fed an illusion that our legal software is well protected, but the reality is that we get restricted more and more, pay more and more and still end up with bugs that are sometimes never fixed and wrong UI decisions we have to deal with.


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## jbuhler (Dec 5, 2021)

Mostly on the ilok. A few on the computer. I’ve also lost a few activations to a computer going kaput, and so minimize computer activations.

ETA: I also haven’t had a license error in years. I used to get those all the time.


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## dunamisstudio (Dec 5, 2021)

All are on my dongle. I recently did some in the cloud that allowed it for my laptop. For cloud use, only one pc signed in at a time.


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## Vik (Dec 5, 2021)

I have used dongle for many years and are OK with that, but with a transition to a Mac with fewer USB ports of the right/old type, authorizinf the system drive (or the computer) seems to be a simpler solution. However, since some libraries come with only one authorization, even if you can use it on two, authorizing drives/computers may be more cumbersome than getting two hubs and move the dongle from one computer to the other.

EDIT: I'm used to Logic, where one can remove authorizations (there are 5) from Macs after you don't own them anymore or after a Mac has stopped working, or have been stolen. Maybe there are some libraries that don't offer the same thing. In that case, using dongles is a better idea (until the dongle is lost/stolen or stops working).


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## khollister (Dec 5, 2021)

iLok has become quite stable in the last few years and I really appreciate the convenience of the dongle. With ZDT/TLC for $30/yr, it is completely risk free. Frankly I wish everyone used iLok rather than the PIA challenge/response, keeping up with serial numbers or having to beg for more activations in the event of SW problems or machine changes (just happened again with Spitfire, still waiting on permission for a reset so I can use what I paid for).


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## cedricm (Dec 5, 2021)

Dongle all the way for me! I just don't like that I also must have an eLicenser and an USB key for waves/overloud/internet co licenses. I'd just be happier if everyone standardized on iLok.
With a dongle, it's so much easier to work with multiple computers or buy a new one.

I bought a zero-downtime sub though, just in case.

As an aside, I complained to them I couldn't pay it with PayPal because USD payments is all my bank needs to charge me disgusting fees plus absurd FX rates.

They answered that they did offer PayPal before but stopped because people were abusing the 6-month PayPal protection. Unfortunately, I believe them. It's the same trick fake donors use on Twitch.


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## thorwald (Dec 5, 2021)

First of all, I have to say that I am not a fan of dongles. There are, perhaps less secure, but more convenient methods of software activation, such as what Plugin Alliance uses (a key file that you can move onto an USB drive as well). Ultimately, all of these, Ilok included, will be cracked, it's a cat and mouse game.

Storing activations on a hard drive is a bad idea, and the cloud is not always available. It happened to me a few times that I could not work on a project because they had outages. A dongle always works, even though it's not as convenient as the cloud.


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## mjsalam (Dec 5, 2021)

dunamisstudio said:


> All are on my dongle. I recently did some in the cloud that allowed it for my laptop. For cloud use, only one pc signed in at a time.


I actually considered the cloud as well but upon reading it sound like it checks for activation every few minutes which (assuming it’s true) seems unnecessarily aggressive to me and means I could never use offline.


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## Wes Antczak (Dec 5, 2021)

Also not a big fan of dongles, but if there does need to be some sort of security measure... which is unfortunately necessary because of some people (I am assuming nobody from around here), then I would much rather have a dongle in stead of something sitting on a dead hard drive. So, dongle and one less thing to have to worry about should an hd problem occur. And of course I prefer not to have to be online in order to produce music. Just my own personal thoughts on the matter.


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## MartinH. (Dec 5, 2021)

Franklin said:


> Some cracked within a day, others a week or longer, but the point i'm trying to make is that we are fed an illusion that our legal software is well protected, but the reality is that we get restricted more and more, pay more and more and still end up with bugs that are sometimes never fixed and wrong UI decisions we have to deal with.



One day I'll start pestering neural DSP to release a no-drm version of one of their sims that already has been cracked. They're right now missing out on sales of people like me that refuse to deal with iLok but don't want to take the pirated stuff either. It's so weird to keep insisting on iLok when it demonstrably no longer protects their product. I don't get it.


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## Nico5 (Dec 5, 2021)

I sometimes wonder if anti-piracy protections are really targeted at eliminating cracked software, or if it’s more designed to prevent illegitimate license “sharing” of legitimately purchased licenses in a medium or large studio or between bandmates or between friends.


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## Learningtomix (Dec 5, 2021)

I had a computer failure while using machine based ILok. Thankfully ILok contacted the various vendors who got me sorted out with new activations. I've still to buy a dongle, but intend to as i've 2 machines and some vendors only provide 1 ILok activation.


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## NekujaK (Dec 5, 2021)

Well, reading this thread just motivated me to go buy an iLok dongle  I've been cruising along for way too many years on the good graces of my PC not failing. But that can't last forever.

Besides, now I'll be able to get a couple of Sonnox plugins that I've always wanted!


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## Quasar (Dec 5, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> One day I'll start pestering neural DSP to release a no-drm version of one of their sims that already has been cracked. They're right now missing out on sales of people like me that refuse to deal with iLok but don't want to take the pirated stuff either. It's so weird to keep insisting on iLok when it demonstrably no longer protects their product. I don't get it.


Yes, this is the elephant in the room that apparently so many fail to see. The axiomatic notion that:

_software protection that does not work, that fails to protect, is *necessary*_

is so obviously demonstrably and empirically false that the persistence of this belief is utterly baffling. There are so many developers who I automatically pass over because of their draconian DRM, yet could easily acquire for free if I were a pirate. Since I'm not, I just ignore their products. But either way (whether I were a pirate or not) they get exactly the same amount of money from me, zero, when they could in many instances easily get money from me simply by dropping the protection that that doesn't work anyway.

This state of affairs makes so little sense that I can only attribute it to a sort of mass psychogenic illness or something.


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## rgames (Dec 5, 2021)

The approach that makes the most sense to me is two (maybe three) software activations per user that require check-in via the web every now and then (maybe once a month). That way you don't need a dongle but also don't carry the risk of licenses dying with a computer. And developers can keep track of how many uses are associated with a license and shut them down if necessary.

The second-best option is a hardware dongle.

The second-worst option is single-activation via software (Waves...). Colossal PITA.

The absolute worst option is what Spitfire uses: software activation that, even when connected to the web on a valid installation, randomly refuses to let you use the software that you paid for.

rgames


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## Tralen (Dec 5, 2021)

mjsalam said:


> Good point. Added.


By that token, you should add an option for the cloud.


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## emasters (Dec 5, 2021)

No issues here, using the iLock dongle. Also have Zero Downtime as a backup, if needed. By contrast, the number of times I've had drive and computer failures, far exceeds any potential issues with the iLock USB dongle. Much prefer the portability, reliability and ease of the dongle versus the risk of licenses on a drive.


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## nightjar (Dec 6, 2021)

iLok cloud is very convenient and reliable for me. Big fan of this method and I encourage others to try it. I have zero worries about ever losing a license and I can get any such plugin authorized quick and easy on whatever rig I'm working on.


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## mjsalam (Dec 6, 2021)

nightjar said:


> iLok cloud is very convenient and reliable for me. Big fan of this method and I encourage others to try it. I have zero worries about ever losing a license and I can get any such plugin authorized quick and easy on whatever rig I'm working on.


If you lose internet connectivity … how long until something happens … and what exactly happens?


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