# Thoughts on Philip Glass' music?



## rgames (Jan 4, 2010)

I watched the Glass documentary over the weekend and have been thinking about his music. He certainly developed a style that is unique but here's where I have trouble with it: it doesn't seem very adaptable.

For example, Beethoven can sound like Beethoven in a lot of different contexts: even within different types of instrumentation (full orchestra, piano, string quartet, etc), he (and others) seem to be able to capture a lot of different sub-styles that are all somehow tied to his overall style (which might change with time, of course). I don't see that type of adaptability within a recognizable style in Glass' music - maybe I just haven't heard enough of it. I feel the same way about a lot of film composers, actually.

To me, when I hear the minimalist arpeggiated chords on top of a mid-range repeated note, that sounds like Philip Glass. But I never see any nuanced differenes that make me say "that's different but related" - it always sounds either the same or completely unrelated. It's almost as though he only has the more specific sub-style and not the broader stylistic brushes that other great composers have.

Not sure where I'm going with this - just some thoughts....

rgames


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## bigdog (Jan 4, 2010)

Brings to mind a knock knock joke....

Knock Konck...

Who's there?

Philip Glass.....Philip Glass.....Philip Glass.....Philip Glass.....Philip Glass.....


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## José Herring (Jan 4, 2010)

I heard a play he scored in NY that used string quartet. Very good indeed. I think that more than any other period people get pegged for a certain style. Then they are expected to repeat that style over and over again.

Most of the stuff that's recognized as Phillip Glass is really old stuff. He really doesn't compose like that any more.

But I think pieces like this one show a lot of diversity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB0wHIC0 ... re=related


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 4, 2010)

The only thing I liked from Glass is the score he did for "The Hours" which I though was really nice, and if I'm not mistaken he won an Oscar for best score of the year. But when a piece moves forward 1 inch per hour I can't dig that.


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## RiffWraith (Jan 4, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Tue Jan 05 said:


> ...for "The Hours" which I though was really nice, and if I'm not mistaken he won an Oscar for best score of the year.



Phillip was nominated, but Elliot Goldenthal won for "Frida".

Glass is a talent, but as said, his music is not very adaptable. It works in certain situations (think the qatsi films) but not many. Phillip Glass is like escargot - it's an aquired taste. He did, however, have one of the best quotes from a composer that I have ever heard. Upon being hired to score Dracula - the original, silent, 1931 film, which someone had the bright idea of adding music to:

"This is a dream job - the picture has been locked for 70 years, and the director is dead."

Cheers.


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## José Herring (Jan 4, 2010)

You guys are kind of looking at it from a narrow viewpoint. Really he's got a lot of remarkable concert work. Listen to the link above. Also this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKMEtPeFFMY

So very lovely stuff in there. Not all of it is my cup of tea but who cares.

Jose


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## José Herring (Jan 4, 2010)

Also this is a nice piece:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiKKuM9rkeQ&feature=fvw


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 4, 2010)

He scored one of the movies about magicians in the 1800s a few years ago...man, I can't think of the title, but there were two of them that year. The score was really great, and as a matter of fact he did adapt his minimalist approach just as much as Beethoven would have done.

And as Jose pointed out, what he's doing now is very different from what he was doing in the 70s. I liked what he was doing back then too, in fact I saw him live with a small group at the Roxy in 1976 and still remember it like I was there. It takes a huge amount of skill to do what he does.

But - and I don't mean this to sound as patronizing as it does - you had to listen beneath the surface to appreciate what he was doing. The patterns evolved very slowly in a very subtle, intricate way.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 4, 2010)

The Illusionist.


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## Dave Connor (Jan 4, 2010)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Jan 04 said:


> The Illusionist.



He generally doesn't float my boat but The Illusionist is a terrific score. Very clever adopting of the Classical style into a more modern harmonic language. An approach that made his repetitive style work very well, which often doesn't work imho. That score is a bit of a curiosity in that the film takes place in Vienna much closer to the second Viennese school than the first but he chose the earlier period as a departure point: Mozart rather Mahler in a sense.

As Jose suggests he's considered by many to be a major figure in modern classicism and even hailed as a genius. He has an opera that's considered to be a masterpiece as well (don't recall the long Hindu sounding title.) I haven't heard enough of his concert material to opine on the subject.


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## autopilot (Jan 4, 2010)

It can be quite repetitive. 

ha ha 

I kill me.

Actually i dig his slowly evolving textures - I find them meditative and relaxing. Koyanisquatsi is a top score in anyones books.


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## Markus S (Jan 5, 2010)

rgames @ Mon Jan 04 said:


> I watched the Glass documentary over the weekend and have been thinking about his music. He certainly developed a style that is unique but here's where I have trouble with it: it doesn't seem very adaptable.
> 
> For example, Beethoven can sound like Beethoven in a lot of different contexts: even within different types of instrumentation (full orchestra, piano, string quartet, etc), he (and others) seem to be able to capture a lot of different sub-styles that are all somehow tied to his overall style (which might change with time, of course). I don't see that type of adaptability within a recognizable style in Glass' music - maybe I just haven't heard enough of it. I feel the same way about a lot of film composers, actually.
> 
> ...



You are right, the style is a lot less adaptable than the romantic style, but I think the point is, that, if you always want music to be 100% adaptable, you will find the same solutions over and over again (mix of orchestra, electronic, percussion, to have the most colors, build ups, romantic themes etc.). 

The music of Phillip Glass doesn't have the aim to go well with the action of a film, it is somehow inspired by tribal "primitive" music (don't other culture love that term  ). You will get repetitions that somehow disappear in an endless patterns that then starts to flow in a continuous, complex way, building up a "trance-like" state of mind. So, first it's concert music inspired by "ethnic" music , and not really film music. 

So if it ends up in a film, I think it is simply to have a new sound, a new approach, something from outside the usual film music style, and this it what gives the music the strength. So it's not there to replace the film music, but to offer a new perspective, maybe something esotheric, maybe an abstract character, maybe some continuous energy.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 5, 2010)

I LOVE his score for Notes on a Scandal. Haunting, beautiful, lyrical. His style of writing is not my favourite (although I'll never forget my first introduction to Einstein on the Beach, in the 80s, which blew my young mind), but he's a monster talent, and will be remembered as one of the great US composers of the second half of the 20th Century. I wish I had 10% of his composing/playing chops.

PS: I suppose that to truly enjoy Glass, you have to spend a lot of time with his oeuvre, so you can get past the superficial first reaction to the repetition, otherwise, you'll be like the person that walks out of a bebop jazz gig complaining that, "they're just playing anything, randomly!".

PPS: Oh, and don't underestimate his great ability to write melodies.


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## lux (Jan 5, 2010)

ask choco


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 5, 2010)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jan 05 said:


> PS: I suppose that to truly enjoy Glass, you have to spend a lot of time with his oeuvre,



I don't know if I can invest that much time to find out if I really dig his music.


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## John DeBorde (Jan 5, 2010)

rgames @ Mon Jan 04 said:


> I watched the Glass documentary over the weekend and have been thinking about his music.
> rgames



If you are referring to "Glass: A Portrait of Philip in Twelve Parts", I saw that at a festival a few years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought it was a very interesting window into a successful composer's life, whatever you think of his music ( I run hot and cold on it myself - some I like, some not so much). It also begs the question what does he do when the cameras _aren't_ following him around. I know I would behave differently.

Anyway, I highly recommend the film for anyone who hasn't seen it.

-john


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## choc0thrax (Jan 5, 2010)

I think he should stick to concert music and those concerts should take place somewhere far away. I hear Transnistria is nice this time of year.


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## mf (Jan 5, 2010)

RiffWraith @ Mon Jan 04 said:


> Phillip Glass is like escargot


Whoa... you mean, that fast?


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## JohnG (Jan 5, 2010)

I love Glass' film music; in fact, most of his concert music as well, so I'm prejudiced.

That said, I sometimes wonder whether the affinity is created solely by the music or in equal parts by the story / program associated with the music, on the one hand, and the music itself, on the other hand.

To Richard's original musing, I think there is something to what you say. Without the change of story I wonder if I'd see such differences between pieces.

Still, "Notes on a Scandal" is a very good score for that film.


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## David Story (Jan 5, 2010)

Philip Glass said "Directors hire me for what I know, and what I can do."
He knows classical, ethnic and electronic music. And he can evoke exotic or abnormal situations better than anyone else in film, imo.
I like a lot of his work. I've tried mockups,it requires live performance to sound right.


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## Hannes_F (Jan 5, 2010)

Hmm ...

I watched "The Illusionist" for the first time a few days ago. Got terribly annoyed by the soundtrack. Even my wife noticed how boring it was to listen to the same three cords over and over with the violas playing wooheewooheewoohee.

I google composers when I like something but this time I googled it because I wanted to know which layman knocked that together. Then I saw that it was Philip Glass and understood that he had made hilarious caricature of it and speared the allto idiomatic stereotype. Bravo Philip Glass that was brilliant (as a move, not the music).


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## dinerdog (Jan 5, 2010)

I know he's an acquired taste, but it's pretty impressive to have such a distinct voice in music in this day and age. Originality is for sure the most precious commodity there is (IMHO). That being said, (and not to distill his most well known style) there's an amusing (and informative) video from Torley dissecting his vibe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNiOqa1nWgI


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 5, 2010)

Your wife didn't "notice" that it was boring, Hannes, she *felt* it was boring. I have no problem with your disagreeing with me and saying you didn't like it, but I do think you might want to reconsider your pronouncement that he's a layman.


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## Hannes_F (Jan 5, 2010)

Nick, as I said I think he pulled a leg on the film music industry and that is something certainly no layman could do.

Just to be clear, I am serious about it, this is no sarcasm or the like from my side.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 5, 2010)

Hannes, I just popped into iTunes and listened to the first 30 seconds of each cue of the Illusionist soundtrack. I think you should do the same before you continue to say silly things. Seriously, take 5 minutes to listen to the clips.


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## JohnG (Jan 5, 2010)

Hannes_F @ 5th January 2010 said:


> the same three cords over and over with the violas playing wooheewooheewoohee.



thats the funniest put-down of minimalism I've ever read.

I love Glass but I understand that a lot of people hate it and think it's worthless.


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## rayinstirling (Jan 5, 2010)

Hey! guys, I'm a musical pygmy (knowing fcuk all about music theory) and I unexpectedly enjoyed most things I've heard from him. What does this mean?

And no! I can't even beat a drum.


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## Hannes_F (Jan 5, 2010)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jan 05 said:


> Hannes, I just popped into iTunes and listened to the first 30 seconds of each cue of the Illusionist soundtrack. I think you should do the same before you continue to say silly things. Seriously, take 5 minutes to listen to the clips.



Hi Ned and John,

I must admit I appearently missed some very nice cues at the beginning. Not sure I actually watched the whole film. After listening to the complete list it seems that maybe the editor used "The chase" and "Meeting in the carriage" repeatedly through the film - at least often enough for me to leave the sofa and google it up. So ... let's blame the editor, haha. 

The good thing is how nice strings accompaniment is sounding even if all on it's own for quarters of hours. The classic role of themes and melodies are taken by the visuals, I guess that may be part of the message.

And - no, I don't hate it. After I learned that it was done by Philip Glass I respected and maybe kinda understood it, really.


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## tfishbein82 (Jan 5, 2010)

I loved "The Illusionist" - movie and music. You may accurately call me a layman though, so I don't know what that says about Philip Glass.


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## JohnG (Jan 5, 2010)

rayinstirling @ 5th January 2010 said:


> Hey! guys, I'm a musical pygmy (knowing fcuk all about music theory) and I unexpectedly enjoyed most things I've heard from him. What does this mean?
> 
> And no! I can't even beat a drum.



Well leaving aside the fact that you've demonstrated you are not a musical pygmy, your comment about theory is interesting in relation to Glass. In the documentary, he says:

"_I never was inclined to be involved with the theoretical ideas about music; that would have been about thinking. I didn't care about theories of music, I cared about listening to music._" -- Philip Glass


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## artsoundz (Jan 5, 2010)

mf @ Tue Jan 05 said:


> RiffWraith @ Mon Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > Phillip Glass is like escargot
> ...



good one : ) And the knock knock joke earlier.

Thin Blue line was perfect.


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## choc0thrax (Jan 5, 2010)

The Prestige totally pwns The Illusionist.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2010)

bigdog @ Mon Jan 04 said:


> Brings to mind a knock knock joke....
> 
> Knock Konck...
> 
> ...



Love that! o-[][]-o


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## rgames (Jan 5, 2010)

Interesting discussion - I do like a lot of Glass' work but my point earlier was that I can't really find a lot that holds it together other than the singular "minimalist" Glass sound.

For example - of his works that don't have that distinctive minimalist feel, could you guess that they were Glass? I certainly couldn't. I guess I'm not really interested in whether the music is good or bad - I'm interested if there's an identifiable style there. Maybe there is but it's too nuanced for me to notice.

rgames


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## tradivoro (Jan 6, 2010)

I think for my tastes, Glass's music seems to be better presented at first if it's accompanied by something else, i.e., a movie, a stage performance, dance... For instance, I remember hearing Glassworks around when he first wrote it... It really didn't grab me... However, when I saw the New York City Ballet's production using Glassworks, I had a whole new appreciation for the piece... Maybe it was because it was a live performance, but for me, if I hear his music in combination with something else first, I like it more... The guy has written some nice stuff over the years...


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## mf (Jan 6, 2010)

The_Dark_Knight @ Tue Jan 05 said:


> styled patterns, transparent dynamics


It's stylish, transparent, and barely moving. What is it? 
It's Glass, and it's got class.


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## JohnG (Jan 6, 2010)

tradivoro @ 6th January 2010 said:


> I think for my tastes, Glass's music seems to be better presented at first if it's accompanied by something else, i.e., a movie, a stage performance, dance... For instance, I remember hearing Glassworks around when he first wrote it... It really didn't grab me... However, when I saw the New York City Ballet's production using Glassworks, I had a whole new appreciation for the piece... Maybe it was because it was a live performance, but for me, if I hear his music in combination with something else first, I like it more... The guy has written some nice stuff over the years...



+1

That's what I was trying to say, only you've said it much better. I'm hooked now.


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