# Problems Recording Automation for MIDI CC Data in DP9 & Kontakt 5



## Ultra (Dec 27, 2016)

Hi,

I already posted this on Motunation but though I'd ask here for help as well.

I'm using DP 9.12 & Kontakt 5 on Win 8.1 x64.

I'm trying to record automation of MIDI CC data (continuous data) to a MIDI track in *separate passes*, meaning: I have already recorded the MIDI notes in the first pass, and now I play back the MIDI notes and record CC data automation in real time for the notes (modulation, vibrato, or any other CC). Exact same concept as you can play back a soundbite and record volume automation by riding the fader. This here is is simply for MIDI CC data.

Problem is this works only for CC7 (Volume) and CC10 (Pan), which both happen to be controls inside DP (meaning: the knobs are inside DP).

When I try to record automation (in a separate pass) for any other CC for a VI loaded in Kontakt 5 (meaning the CC actually targets a VI control inside Kontakt), the automation is NOT recorded to the MIDI track. I tried automating the CC values via my MIDI controller or directly automating the knobs via mouse. Nothing (other than CC7 or CC10) is recorded, when doing a separate pass.

Notes: 

(a) recording automation of CC data does generally work in the _*first pass*_, so when I am in full record mode and I record the MIDI notes and CC automation in the same pass, everything is recorded to the MIDI track. 

I just need to run multiple passes after that to automate additional CC parameters.

(b) I can manually edit/insert CC data in the MIDI editor. This works just fine. I just prefer in some cases to automate the CC while the notes are playing back, ergo riding the CC.

(c) the INPUT FILTER is set to record all CC

(d) I've tried using Kontakt 5 directly as a VI in DP9 or inside VEPro - same result

(e) odd enough, when I try to do a separate pass to record automation and I set the automation mode to OVERWRITE, then - at the record playback starting point - DP sets 3 CC events: an unmute event, a CC7 event (value: 127) and a CC10 event (value: 64) - but none of the CC data that is actually being automated is recorded.


Can anybody point me into the right direction how to achieve this ?

Thanks !


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## synergy543 (Dec 27, 2016)

You said above that the input filter was already set to all. 
Also try,
Under View > Filters, check your automation and controller settings (at the bottom). Try selecting All. 
DP will record and show any MIDI CC data as long as you're not filtering it out.


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## Ultra (Dec 27, 2016)

@ synergy: 

view > filter (both global & events) is set to all

yes, DP does record the MIDI CC data on the first initial pass in full record mode, but on additional passes in automation record mode it only records CC7 & CC10 here on my setup...


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## synergy543 (Dec 27, 2016)

Hmm...you could record CC in a second channel and set the MIDI destination to be the same. This is what I do. I only use automation for CC7. Other CCs I draw or record to a second channel. 
DP experts might have other ideas too. There is also an MOTU facebook group that's quite active, you might try there as well. Let us know if you find other solutions. There are so many different ways of doing things, its good to see alternatives.


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## Ultra (Dec 27, 2016)

when you say "record to a second channel", do you mean a second MIDI track and then merge the data over ?


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## synergy543 (Dec 27, 2016)

Ultra said:


> when you say "record to a second channel", do you mean a second MIDI track and then merge the data over ?


Yes. I do this a lot. Its a hang over from the old tape days I suppose, but it works very well for me. I also use that when entering note data so I can do A/B rolls of phrases. It makes playing and editing easier (for me). I'll record a pass, and the open another MIDI track and enter controller data. If you want, you can easily merge the channels.


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## Ultra (Dec 28, 2016)

Ultra said:


> when you say "record to a second channel", do you mean a second MIDI track and then merge the data over ?


okay, I'll try this for now as an alternative solution... thanks !


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## synergy543 (Dec 28, 2016)

I just read your comments on Motunation. Do you have the overdub button turned on? (second from the right, bottom row). This lets you record notes. Then do another pass and record MIDI CC data to the same track (or more notes if you wish). Both the above multi-track and the overdub method work, its just a matter of what you're most comfortable with and which is easier for editing.


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## Joe_D (Dec 28, 2016)

You have to turn on _Overdub mode_, which means that your new controller moves are going to be overdubbed (added) to your old recording. Be careful, because if you bump notes or accidentally jiggle the modwheel or whatever, those unintentional MIDI events will be added to your recording as well.

You turn on Overdub mode with the icon near the bottom right of this pic (it appears light blue in the pic, meaning that Overdub mode is enabled):






(pic is from DP 8) Note that you enable Overdub mode, then hit "record" which does not erase your previous recording as it typically would, but will add to it instead. That's what you're trying to do here.

Just remember to turn off Overdub mode when you're done recording; that'll save you some grief and head-scratching somewhere down the road.

I have not gone up to DP9 yet, so I don't know if the controller lanes feature that they added will change this procedure or not (I'd guess not). 

For the ultimate in flexibility, you could instead record each controller onto it's own track (in a track folder for that instrument, with all of those tracks assigned to the same MIDI output); that will have a few advantages and disadvantages which I won't go into here.
_
Edit: I see Synergy beat me to it...._


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## synergy543 (Dec 28, 2016)

Joe_D said:


> Edit: I see Synergy beat me to it....


Jinx!


Joe_D said:


> Just remember to turn off Overdub mode when you're done recording; that'll save you some grief and head-scratching somewhere down the road.


^ What he said. This is the reason I guess I don't like overdub much. Once I've got a good take, I don't want to risk messing it up (as I surely will).


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## Ultra (Dec 28, 2016)

@ synergy & joe: 

thanks, yes this does work: Overdub with DP in *full record mode* (I missed that the first time I tried Overdub, beginner here)

What I tried to do is what the manual states, page 804 DP 9.12 manual:
-----------------------------------------
*RECORDING AUTOMATION*
Automation data can be recorded in real time during playback. To do so, enable the automation record button for the track you wish to record (as shown in Figure 68-7), and choose the desired mode (Overwrite, Touch, Latch, etc.) *You do not need to put Digital Performer into record mode to record automation.* Just start playback and adjust volume, pan, *plug-in settings*, send levels, and mutes as desired during playback.

The automation data is recorded directly into the track, replacing existing automation data of the same kind, if any.
-----------------------------------------

--> I guess this does not work for VIs hosted inside Kontakt.

Out of interest, how does one merge CC data from one MIDI track onto another MIDI track ?

Thanks !


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## synergy543 (Dec 28, 2016)

Ultra said:


> how does one merge CC data from one MIDI track onto another MIDI track ?


1. Go to View > Filters, and click SET ALL down at the bottom.
2. Set the range of the edit
3. Select the first track with MIDI data and Copy.
4. Select the second track and select Merge (Edit > Merge).

Alternately, you can copy data from two or more tracks, go to another track, press the option key (or control on PC) and select Merge Together. All tracks will then be merged into one.

These are older tutorials but worth watching to maybe answer some of your earlier questions about automation:


And this:


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