# HZ and others talking about creativity......very inspiring



## ed buller (May 15, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ziv3Nv3xTOw&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ziv3Nv3 ... r_embedded)



e


----------



## HeDa (May 15, 2014)

thanks. 
Interesting but could be better... all those are rich artists I guess or at least people that don't have to worry about how are they going to eat next day. Then they have time for creativity. 
It is good that there are artists that can sell and monetize their creativity. I am not against it. That gives them more opportunities to continue exploring their creativity better. I just would like how to do it :D


----------



## Patrick de Caumette (May 15, 2014)

HeDa @ Thu May 15 said:


> thanks.
> Interesting but could be better... all those are rich artists I guess or at least people that don't have to worry about how are they going to eat next day. Then they have time for creativity.



This is not correct: the bigger the job, the more deadline pressure there is...


----------



## Rctec (May 15, 2014)

HeDa, not everyone in this video started out as a rich artist - and if you listen to Lee Daniels, you'll understand that this was part of his background, part of his creativity. But in my experience, the ones that 'made it' never had your negative, defeatist attitude.

I've been quite good at spotting up-and-coming talent over the years, but if you walked into my room -which, in a 'virtual' way, you just did on this forum - I'd tell you to get a 'normal' job, you don't think like an artist. All artists do their art despite their existential fears. We live from idea to idea and it's pushing up against obstacles that can either crush you or become part of your creative narrative.
Artists are a weird bunch. They feel driven and compelled to realize their ideas - often at great cost to themselves and the people around them.

There is always a great, logical excuse not to get on with the art. But even at my most desperately broke times, I kept coming up with ideas. And I never, ever wanted to not experience the joy of creating. That option was the cost I wasn't prepared to pay in this one and only life.

...just my two cents

-Hz-


----------



## jcs88 (May 15, 2014)

Rctec @ Thu May 15 said:


> There is always a great, logical excuse not to get on with the art. But even at my most desperately broke times, I kept coming up with ideas. And I never, ever wanted to not experience the joy of creating. That option was the cost I wasn't prepared to pay in this one and only life.



Did you ever think "what if this doesn't work out"? My biggest obstacle is self doubt and topped with the financial weight of living in London I do think that sometimes. There's nothing else I'd rather do and while I work the absolute minimum I need to in order to survive and dedicate all my free time (and most of my sleep time..) to writing the 'threat' of failing does hang over my head. As a result I do try and remain realistic that there is life if I don't make it as a composer, though it does look terribly gray.

I am of the opinion that the attitude makes a massive, massive difference - in all forms of 'making' it (sports, creative arts etc), and sometimes worry that by thinking the above I'm not going to succeed. Composing for a living is my life's goal and I'm not going to give up any time soon, but I'm just wondering if my thought process is shared by anyone else.


----------



## PMortise (May 15, 2014)

jcs88 @ Thu May 15 said:


> Did you ever think "what if this doesn't work out"? My biggest obstacle is self doubt and topped with the financial weight of living in London I do think that sometimes. There's nothing else I'd rather do and while I work the absolute minimum I need to in order to survive and dedicate all my free time (and most of my sleep time..) to writing the 'threat' of failing does hang over my head. As a result I do try and remain realistic that there is life if I don't make it as a composer, though it does look terribly gray.


Yup, right here. Same boat, but not in London.



Patrick de Caumette @ Thu May 15 said:


> HeDa @ Thu May 15 said:
> 
> 
> > thanks.
> ...


As I watched the video my first impression was similar to HeDa's in the respect that how "monied" all the artists looked was a slight distraction from the message (which probably says more about _me_ and times of doubt more than anything else) but then Patrick's response also has merit. In the end I agree with what Hans said about money not being inspiring and only gets in the way. I'm not saying that money isn't nor shouldn't be inspiring for someone (god knows how un-American than would be, right? :wink: ), but I've sh*tted on opportunities that would've put a few more bucks in my wallet or helped me have a career while chasing after things that (while financially foolish) were inspiring to me. There are times of doubt when I get the shoulda-coulda-woulda's

So, " to thine own self be true" but you have to know and accept who that is first in order to know what really inspires you. In the end I always make those sacrifices for art because I've proven to myself time and again that I can't exist without composing. The first "playing" that I can remember was making instruments out of Legos and pretending that I can play them. Now I buy the instruments and pretend I can play! :lol:


----------



## PMortise (May 15, 2014)

Darn it! I didn't want to agree wth you _after_ you post, Hans. That's so boring. That's what I get for being slow. :lol:


----------



## ed buller (May 15, 2014)

build it...and they will come

e


----------



## José Herring (May 15, 2014)

HeDa @ Thu May 15 said:


> thanks.
> Interesting but could be better... all those are rich artists I guess or at least people that don't have to worry about how are they going to eat next day. Then they have time for creativity.
> It is good that there are artists that can sell and monetize their creativity. I am not against it. That gives them more opportunities to continue exploring their creativity better. I just would like how to do it :D



It's ok not to eat, or go buy used clothing or to go without stuff. Imo, nothing fuels the get up and go creative spirit than an empty bank account. I use to fear it. Then I just learned to roll with it. And, when, I do get a check, I make sure to treat myself to something nice like sushi or something. 

The worst penalty that the world can dish out is death. So I always figured that if I didn't fear dying that nothing else would matter that much. That attitude also helps you survive during a job. People screaming at you and yelling at you sometimes. If you have in your mind that the worse they can do is kill you, then you realize that even getting fired falls way short of that.

I understand where you're coming from. So, I don't think that it's just a "bad attitude". I've battled it myself growing up in middleclass America. If you're like me, you grew up in a family that didn't take risk, that held that 9 to 5 job, that worried a great deal about paying bills on time and things like that. It gets ingrained into your head. It takes a lot to get over that. Kind of a fuck you world attitude. And, I noticed when I took that attitude more and more I became comfortable with what I do and who I am. It's a risky life, tough to explain to people, even my own son doesn't get me. But, I look at the alternative, people doing stuff they hate, getting sick and stuff because they're so unhappy. I'd rather play on a street corner than do 1 minute of work that I wasn't passionate about.

That's my negatively positive view of life. :lol:


----------



## PMortise (May 15, 2014)

josejherring @ Thu May 15 said:


> ...I understand where you're coming from. So, I don't think that it's just a "bad attitude". I've battled it myself growing up in middleclass America. If you're like me, you grew up in a family that didn't take risk, that held that 9 to 5 job, that worried a great deal about paying bills on time and things like that. It gets ingrained into your head.  It takes a lot to get over that. Kind of a fuck you world attitude. And, I noticed when I took that attitude more and more I became comfortable with what I do and who I am. It's a risky life, tough to explain to people, even my own son doesn't get me. But, I look at the alternative, people doing stuff they hate, getting sick and stuff because they're so unhappy. I'd rather play on a street corner than do 1 minute of work that I wasn't passionate about.
> 
> That's my negatively positive view of life. :lol:


Like a brother from another mother. o-[][]-o


----------



## Rctec (May 15, 2014)

You guys have NO IDEA how much self-doubt I have about every single piece. And it just get's worse with success, because if I have an insane idea, people actually believe in it and don't question it. How should I know if it works or not....what if I'm wrong?They think I actually know what I'm doing, when really - I just make it up as I go. And I'm candid about it. Sometimes I literally tell the director "I have know idea what to do". They think I'm kidding. It doesn't help either to have the weight of a crazy budget on your shoulders while you try to recklessly invent, or being constantly told that if the movie isn't a hit, a lot of people will loose their jobs. Because you must be reckless, you must push the envelope - that's why they hire you. 
I remember playing my first tune (which, admittedly I had dashed off while finishing another project...never a good idea) to Ridley on Thelma and Louise and us both knowing that it was a piece of shit. He said nothing other than "I'll be back on Monday". I worked my arse off over the weekend...and on Monday, after hearing it, he just said "Fear can be very inspiring sometimes...". You just can't let it paralyze you. One way or the other, you have to make it a game, put the "play" back into playing music. It ain't brain-surgery, no one's going to die.


----------



## RiffWraith (May 15, 2014)

Rctec @ Thu May 15 said:


> You guys have NO IDEA how much self-doubt I have about every single piece.



No - trust me we do. You have mentioned that in just about every interview you have ever given... :lol::lol::lol:



Rctec @ Thu May 15 said:


> ...and on Monday, after hearing it, he just said "Fear can be very inspiring sometimes...". You just can't let it paralyze you.



Yep - that is what separates the men from the boys. Music, sports, going after a hot girl - doesn't matter. There are few who can rise to the occasion. Those who do, reap the rewards that others can only dream of.

Cheers.


----------



## José Herring (May 15, 2014)

Rctec @ Thu May 15 said:


> You guys have NO IDEA how much self-doubt I have about every single piece. And it just get's worse with success, because if I have an insane idea, people actually believe in it and don't question it. How should I know if it works or not....what if I'm wrong?They think I actually know what I'm doing, when really - I just make it up as I go. And I'm candid about it. Sometimes I literally tell the director "I have know idea what to do". They think I'm kidding. It doesn't help either to have the weight of a crazy budget on your shoulders while you try to recklessly invent, or being constantly told that if the movie isn't a hit, a lot of people will loose their jobs. Because you must be reckless, you must push the envelope - that's why they hire you.
> I remember playing my first tune (which, admittedly I had dashed off while finishing another project...never a good idea) to Ridley on Thelma and Louise and us both knowing that it was a piece of [email protected]#t. He said nothing other than "I'll be back on Monday". I worked my arse off over the weekend...and on Monday, after hearing it, he just said "Fear can be very inspiring sometimes...". You just can't let it paralyze you. One way or the other, you have to make it a game, put the "play" back into playing music. It ain't brain-surgery, no one's going to die.



I think people know that about you and expect it now. I remember a Disney exec ( at least I think it was Disney) saying of your music, that the first take may not be that great, but the next take will be out of this world.  I always thought that that was pretty cool. They know that you'll do what it takes no matter what.


----------



## dgburns (May 15, 2014)

Rctec @ Thu May 15 said:


> HeDa, not everyone in this video started out as a rich artist - and if you listen to Lee Daniels, you'll understand that this was part of his background, part of his creativity. But in my experience, the ones that 'made it' never had your negative, defeatist attitude.
> 
> I've been quite good at spotting up-and-coming talent over the years, but if you walked into my room -which, in a 'virtual' way, you just did on this forum - I'd tell you to get a 'normal' job, you don't think like an artist. All artists do their art despite their existential fears. We live from idea to idea and it's pushing up against obstacles that can either crush you or become part of your creative narrative.
> Artists are a weird bunch. They feel driven and compelled to realize their ideas - often at great cost to themselves and the people around them.
> ...



this is on the money.

One thing that always tweaks me is not "how things are",but more,"what could they be"-what can you bring to a project,what does not exist but through a lot of effort can be brought into being.This continues to fuel me.And a constant source of frustration and contemplation after a project is done.Did I do enough?Did it work out?What to do better next time...all sorts of things to improve on.People think I'm nuts,but you have to ask the hard questions of yourself.

We all have fears.I think it's healthy to express it out loud.I think it's good to think others have skill too,it makes you work harder at getting better cause you acknowledge the need for your own improvement.It sucks to know you have to get better,but it feels good trying to.May as well just accept it and learn.

The world doesn't need another composer.But it doesn't need another accountant either.Choose your poison and get on with it.What the hell,someone's gotta score the music,may as well be me too!

anyway,life's too short to have regrets.... 
david


----------



## Valérie_D (May 15, 2014)

When I was 15, Gladiator came out and I was super inspired by the music, not your typical ''gladiator'' film music, really emotional etc. 

Watched an interview about it and thought, wow, it looks so easy to tap into one's creativity and there's so much freedom being a film composer! Thanks for sharing your own process, approach and how you deal (or don't) with self-doubt as a film composer, There's a reality check to it but it's really inspiring too!


----------



## synergy543 (May 15, 2014)

I never saw Gladiator for all of these years because I thought it was a Holst ripp-off. Not so! I just saw it for the first time the other day and its a brilliant example of borrowing to create compelling new art in the same spirit as the old masters have done. And, its a great movie. Very inspiring.

And Hans, speaking of self-doubt, if you think its bad for artists, imagine how gladiators felt! On the ladder of social hierarchy, today we're on about the same level. Remember, gladiators were stars too (not to trigger your self-doubt or anything :wink: ).


----------



## HeDa (May 15, 2014)

Rctec @ Thu May 15 said:


> HeDa, not everyone in this video started out as a rich artist - and if you listen to Lee Daniels, you'll understand that this was part of his background, part of his creativity. But in my experience, the ones that 'made it' never had your negative, defeatist attitude.
> 
> I've been quite good at spotting up-and-coming talent over the years, but if you walked into my room -which, in a 'virtual' way, you just did on this forum - I'd tell you to get a 'normal' job, you don't think like an artist. All artists do their art despite their existential fears. We live from idea to idea and it's pushing up against obstacles that can either crush you or become part of your creative narrative.
> Artists are a weird bunch. They feel driven and compelled to realize their ideas - often at great cost to themselves and the people around them.
> ...



First I am really sorry if it was perceived as so negative. For an artist to be creative cost no money, but then when it comes for that creativity to reach out of our hands, then we often need more than our illusion, force, energy and sometimes health to achieve it. 

It pains me to see people close to me that struggle and do their best and keep creating. I was just only saying that if that video about creativity would have showcased also people in a humbler step of the ladder would have been more encouraging for all those still back on that step. 

Creativity, I agree, at the end, should be a matter of spirit and devotion, but many people that is worth, doubt and "bend" it after too much endurance. And in this case I was not even referring to myself but thinking with love and care about artists close to me. 

HZ, I confess I have admired your work for a long time, so it makes me feel awkward and clumsy that the first ever reply I get from you is also on such down terms, but I also replied following an impulse that felt honest with my first impression after watching the video.


----------



## PMortise (May 15, 2014)

HeDa,

Look at it as a challenge, not a discouragement. :wink: 
"_The brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out; the brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. The brick walls are there to stop the people who don't want it badly enough. They are there to stop the other people!"_~~http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo (Randy Pausch)


----------



## artsoundz (May 15, 2014)

HeDa @ Thu May 15 said:


> thanks.
> Interesting but could be better... all those are rich artists I guess or at least people that don't have to worry about how are they going to eat next day. Then they have time for creativity.
> It is good that there are artists that can sell and monetize their creativity. I am not against it. That gives them more opportunities to continue exploring their creativity better. I just would like how to do it :D


i

Wow- didnt get that impression at all. Im happy for their success. 
They struggled for years no doubt. 
Thats how it works. 
Btw you can be as creative as you want to be in virtually any situation. You just have to decide to be. Rich or poor. Hungry or fat. Lousy client, great client.

Its all on you. Always.


----------



## dannthr (May 15, 2014)

jcs88 @ Thu May 15 said:


> Rctec @ Thu May 15 said:
> 
> 
> > There is always a great, logical excuse not to get on with the art. But even at my most desperately broke times, I kept coming up with ideas. And I never, ever wanted to not experience the joy of creating. That option was the cost I wasn't prepared to pay in this one and only life.
> ...



I don't understand this--I don't understand what you mean by succeed/success.

I measure success by my continued ability to create. If I have the space and time to engage my passion and desire to create and I deliver--whether contracted or whether I engaged in a personal project--that to me is success.

I didn't go to business school--my brother inherited all the sense in the family--so I can't measure success by what people are paying me.

Maybe I just tell myself that because I haven't had a paid gig in over a year--but I've had lots of job gatekeepers indicate their interest in working with me over the years and when I've responded they've all blown me off in one way or another.

So all I can surmise from that is that I'm really terrible at responding to people who offer me work. Does that make me a bad composer? I hope not!

To me, success is the product reflecting what I heard in my mind--my desires when starting the creation process.

And I would rather spend my time improving my creative process than my ability to write emails--maybe that seems small when you want to get paid, but that's how I plan to spend the rest of my life, whether someone is paying me or not.

How can you fear failure? Is there some threshold you will reach where you say to yourself, "eh, I had a good run, but I'm going to stop now because I haven't made a career out if it?"

I don't understand that.


----------



## Folmann (May 15, 2014)

Beautiful thread - I don't have anything else to offer, but this delightful read:

http://inoveryourhead.net/the-complete- ... ng-a-fuck/

Quote: "Those who don’t give a fg change the world. The rest do not."


----------



## jcs88 (May 16, 2014)

dannthr @ Fri May 16 said:


> I don't understand this--I don't understand what you mean by succeed/success.
> 
> I measure success by my continued ability to create. If I have the space and time to engage my passion and desire to create and I deliver--whether contracted or whether I engaged in a personal project--that to me is success.
> 
> ...



Hey Dan,

Wrote out a nice long response and my internet died so will try and be more concise this time.

At this point in my life I'm in a full title attempt to make a living out of my music. Not for the money (and I indeed gave up lucrative opportunities in the corporate world), but so that I can write all day and night and pay my bread with it. I can, however, see myself shifting or slowing down my focus should I need to: family commitments, or (as mentioned in my previous post), financial difficulty. Say the worst case scenario happened and I was facing homelessness which could be avoided by taking more shifts at a bar instead of taking on an unpaid gig (or something to that effect), I have to remain realistic.

I'll never stop writing music, whether or not I make a career out of it. I do, however, fear failure. That is something I've set myself up for though, not external pressure. I'm not bothered about becoming rich or famous, or to be revered by peers and public. However, I have all the opportunity, stability and equipment I need to write good music so I worry about squandering my opportunities, not working hard enough; it all boils down to self doubt. It's a good kind of fear though; it makes me hungry to work as hard as possible at it. Ultimately it's about perseverance and hard work, and lots of practice (I think?)

Hope that clarifies some; bit of a ramble!


----------



## cmillar (May 18, 2014)

I had a teacher who once said: 

"Artists / Musicians are lucky compared to many other people !!! .... we get to have our mid-life crisis in our early 20's...... we get over it, knowing and realizing what's ahead of us in our lives following our chosen paths.... and then we can get on with our lives."

I've seen this over and over amongst friends and people I've know and had the fortune to work with along the way.

If I can speak for some of us who are around the same age as HZ.... and perhaps help a young composer get through there 'mid-life crisis'.... some thoughts I'd like to share.

- I went to see 'SpiderMan 2' last night, the late showing. (This was a form of procrastination on my part, as I have to compose and produce a ton of music over the next two months for 3 different projects (not films this time, but live entertainment shows that are rapidly taking shape, and the pressure is on me.... self-imposed and very real as well.... so, I needed to get out of the studio and be part of the 'other world' last night.)

I went to the film, and truthfully had NO idea who the composer of the underscore was. I was so enthralled by the 3D beginning, that I might have even missed HZ's credit if it was even posted at the start of the film.

Anyways, I played the game of "...I wonder who wrote this music?" as I enjoyed the film. Some very brilliant, new, clever, music that really WORKED for the film. It worked, because I barely noticed it in some places, but when I really turned my attention to the underscore, I was very inspired, saying ".... who the hell did this? Yeah!" And I had fun along the way hearing bits of music that were based on some of the old classical tried-and-true masterpieces.... again, saying to myself, this really works... we don't always need to 're-invent' the wheel. Bottom line is, the underscore really WORKED.

The point here is.... I found out at the end credits that HZ did the underscore. 

Did I get depressed because he made 'X amount' of money for this? Did I get depressed and bent out of shape because he lives in LA and I don't?

Did I get depressed that we're the same age, and I'm not in the same tax bracket?

Of course not! (... I got over that stuff 30 years ago in my early '20's 'mid-life crisis!)

I felt more inspired driving home, having heard some new music. Just as I did after hearing 'Man of Steel', which I thought was brilliant as well.)

- The brains behind the live entertainment show I'm hired to do the music for is in his '80's, and he has the energy of someone younger than me! He's 'living' for this project, and he says that it gives him a reason to wake up every day. This is a man who changed career paths in his 50's, and just had a great 30 year run with another show he created! Truly inspiring! He's on the phone every day with a new idea for the show!

- My first wife (from when I was in my '20's) and I lived for our art. And we both still do, with our respective spouses and families. She's a 'big-time' visual artist now, but has definitely had her share of getting paid some big commissions, along with just creating because it's what she does and who she is. At times, she's had to go the studio after putting her children to bed and then work all night in the studio, to come home and wake up her kids for school. Same with me, and it's wonderful that we can still share some aspects of our lives that way. I admire her, and she still admires me for 'sticking to it' despite the many ups-and-downs along the way. 

My wife is a modern dancer.... probably in the same tax bracket as a poet! But, we fully support each other, always will, and I'll keep composing music for her projects even if they don't really 'pay'.

I have to... it's what 'I do' ! I couldn't live with myself if I couldn't compose for my wife's art.

Anyways, to you composers in your early '20's:
- go to an art gallery, listen to music, go for a run, stay healthy, eat good food, drink good wine, and seek out the best coffee or yerba mate you can!
- realize that you'll have a 'mid-life crisis', if you haven't already.
- it doesn't do any good to compare yourself to others in your field. Be YOU! 
- your parents might not 'get it' and understand 'what you do'. That can be a lifetime struggle for many of us. They've certainly supported me and have been there for me when I have been going through some tough times. It's hard to start having success at an age when you realize that your parents might not be around to appreciate what you're doing, even after they've become your biggest fans as life goes on. You have to deal with stuff like that.

What am I saying? Well, really all the same words of advice that come from HZ and any artist our age would like to tell you.

Or, you could forget everything I just wrote here, and go see a movie and get inspired! Or go to an art gallery this afternoon! Or pick up a book on the lives of one the great musical masters, like Mozart, Beethoven, etc. 

Have a good cup of coffee and get at it.

Damn, I have to quit procrastinating here and get back to work....... !!!!!!!!


----------

