# Orchestral piece using Spitfire Symphonic Strings



## Ben E (Nov 21, 2017)

There's something about this string sound that doesn't sound right to me. I usually use Spitfire's chamber strings. But on the "sample talk" forum people were talking about SSS v. SCS and a few people said they really like SSS, so I thought I'd give it another try. The library can do agile stuff (like SCS can) and there are plenty of articulations but do the strings sound synthy to you? If so, is there something *I* can do to fix that?


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 21, 2017)

I'm not going to talk about the string sound. I'm just dropping this comment to let you know that your music is incredible.


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## moosethree (Nov 21, 2017)

They sound gentle to me not synthy


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## NoamL (Nov 21, 2017)

Amazing sound Ben! I think the strings could use a little _less_ modwheeling, very fast "swoopy" hairpins (<>) feel slightly unidiomatic if overdone. Aim for a more even and connected sound. Also, the horns are too loud in your template (as a matter of absolute volume, not placement on stage). The woodwinds could come up very slightly too, maybe just 2dB. Everything else sounds great to me.


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## storyteller (Nov 21, 2017)

Really like it. My daughter was sitting next to me just now when I was listening to it and I asked her, "what do you think of these strings?" She's 12 and yesterday she randomly asked me what the difference of a "good mix versus a bad mix" was (since she hears me talking about mixing). I played her some live string recordings and a group of mockups of different calibers. Long story short... when I was playing your song over my studio monitors and I asked her the question just now she said, "That's the most real you've played. I can hear _the air_." I also didn't tell her if they were real or sampled.

What's funny is I never used the word "air" yesterday nor did I ever tell her the concept of how different sample libraries are recorded. She decided yesterday - in her words - that live recordings have more "air" and that yours had the most "air" of the examples I've played for her. I then went ahead and told her about Spitfire and the "air" recording concept. Now I'm typing this to share with you.


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## Ben E (Nov 21, 2017)

NoamL said:


> Amazing sound Ben! I think the strings could use a little _less_ modwheeling, very fast "swoopy" hairpins (<>) feel slightly unidiomatic if overdone. Aim for a more even and connected sound. Also, the horns are too loud in your template (as a matter of absolute volume, not placement on stage). The woodwinds could come up very slightly too, maybe just 2dB. Everything else sounds great to me.



Hey NoamL, thanks for this. Okay, so when you say "absolute volume" v. "placement on the stage" do you mean that the absolute volume issue can be corrected by merely turning down the volume of the track? And if so, then the "placement on the stage" (if that were the issue) would be corrected by ... volume _and_ reverb/EQ (to simulate distance) or what exactly? Coming from a band background -- where reverb/EQ etc. were never applied in order to fool the ear into thinking one was hearing instruments in their native environment, this is new and exciting territory.


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## Ben E (Nov 21, 2017)

storyteller said:


> Really like it. My daughter was sitting next to me just now when I was listening to it and I asked her, "what do you think of these strings?" She's 12



Wow! That's perceptive of her. Thank you!


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## OleJoergensen (Nov 22, 2017)

I like your composition, it is wonderful.
Maybe there is to much air in the string sound..? Can that be changed by using more close mic? Or layering with an other string library recorded with less room.


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## tehreal (Nov 22, 2017)

I gotta ask. What are the woodwinds you're using (and the brass as well if you care to share)?


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## Ben E (Nov 22, 2017)

tehreal said:


> I gotta ask. What are the woodwinds you're using (and the brass as well if you care to share)?



The woodwinds are Berlin (Orchestral Tools) with two exceptions: there's a brief bass clarinet which is Spitfire Symphonic Woods and I used the Albion 1 "woods high long" and "woods low long" for the unobtrusive pad-like chords. The brass is Spitfire Symphonic Brass -- just the Horns a2.


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## moosethree (Nov 22, 2017)

convinced me to get one of the black friday complete a collection opportunities to get Symphonic Strings......at an amazing price!


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## amsams (Nov 23, 2017)

Like the sound of this a lot. Beautiful arrangement. I'm not hearing the synthy-ness at all.


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## Arbee (Nov 23, 2017)

Love the arrangement. While I'm not a fan of Spitfire strings in general due to the, IMHO, excessive room ambience, I suspect the issue here might be the inherent consistency in any single string library. They move together, attack together, swell together etc etc. Sometimes the trick of adding another independently played or programmed first chair or small ensemble track to each section does wonders to add the "human touch". Just my 2 cents....


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## shomynik (Nov 23, 2017)

Beautiful composition! I don't have a problem with strings at all... actually quite liking the string dynamics here, don't seem overdone to me. It's just lovely!

But in terms of sound, though I love it in general, I too have a problem with those horns. Not just the volume, but the muddiness /freq build up. It sounds to me like a call for EQ.

Now I go to enjoy it some more!


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## markleake (Nov 29, 2017)

I love SSS so the strings naturally sound fantastic to me here, you've done a great job with them. I really like the piece. I don't hear anything synth like in the string tone, I think it is more a tonal difference that SSS has. More light and airy than for example CSS. That may give it a washy sound sometimes, but I think it's also realistic.

Re the horns... I've found I needed to EQ the horns in the SF library to remove muddiness in the past. The solo horn has some notes that really reverberate horribly. Not to say I don't like the SF brass though!


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## Paul T McGraw (Nov 29, 2017)

Nice composition, good sound. Are we lucky or what? To live in a time when we have a choice of several awesome string libraries that sound so alive and musical is like science fiction. Great job on this.


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## FruitBat (Dec 2, 2017)

Sounds amazing Ben. I've both SSS and SCS, the latter I bought during last week's sales and at the moment prefer the 'intimate detail' of SCS. However, both libraries sounds great and so did your track. Would not call it synthy in any form or fashion. 

Which patches did you use?


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## JohnG (Dec 2, 2017)

Sounds nice. Not sure if you used the "performance legato" or not, but if not, try substituting that on the top violin line.


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## Ben E (Dec 2, 2017)

FruitBat said:


> Sounds amazing Ben. I've both SSS and SCS, the latter I bought during last week's sales and at the moment prefer the 'intimate detail' of SCS. However, both libraries sounds great and so did your track. Would not call it synthy in any form or fashion.
> 
> Which patches did you use?



Thank you, Fruitbat. The strings are all the Performance Legato patches. Except for the occasional trill. And a couple seconds worth of Flautando.


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## Ben E (Dec 2, 2017)

JohnG said:


> Sounds nice. Not sure if you used the "performance legato" or not, but if not, try substituting that on the top violin line.



Thanks JohnG. These were the Performance Legato patches. I think what I'm hearing is this: I like the sound of the Spitfire strings played softly and so what I think I've done is programed the mod wheel dynamics too low and then just turned them up in the mix. So while the volume is at the right level they sound too "whispy" or whatever.


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## JohnG (Dec 2, 2017)

Ben E said:


> they sound too "whispy" or whatever.



If you like how they sound, then why change them? We get hired for our taste more than for our hard-won knowledge. I say, do what you think sounds good and ignore me / us / them.

I wasn't sure if you knew about the performance legato, which offers a huge improvement over the original scripting.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 5, 2017)

Ben you are one talented dude. I listened to it three times in a row and just closed my eyes and imagined a real orchestra performing this at a hall. I wouldn't change a thing, honestly. I am a HUGE Mozart fan, and I can definitely hear some of that. I now have to check out Spitfire to add to my string libraries, maybe I'll hold off on Hollywood Choirs


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## Ben E (Dec 6, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Ben you are one talented dude. I listened to it three times in a row and just closed my eyes and imagined a real orchestra performing this at a hall. I wouldn't change a thing, honestly. I am a HUGE Mozart fan, and I can definitely hear some of that. I now have to check out Spitfire to add to my string libraries, maybe I'll hold off on Hollywood Choirs



Wow! Thank you for these kind words!


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## TintoL (Dec 6, 2017)

Ben E said:


> There's something about this string sound that doesn't sound right to me.


It sounds absolutely awesome to me. Such a beautiful piece. I hope I can eventually do half of that. 

May I ask you what did you do to the strings for the dynamics and sound? Did you used any other controller in addition to the mod wheel? 
Also, how did you mixed the mics for the placement?

Thanks in advance for the info.

Wonderful piece!


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## Ben E (Dec 6, 2017)

TintoL said:


> It sounds absolutely awesome to me. Such a beautiful piece. I hope I can eventually do half of that.
> 
> May I ask you what did you do to the strings for the dynamics and sound? Did you used any other controller in addition to the mod wheel?
> Also, how did you mixed the mics for the placement?
> ...



Thank you!

The strings are using only the tree mics -- which is how they open "out of the box." For dynamics I used the mod wheel (well, sort of. See below...) and the expression control.

So here's a screen video of the piece. You can see the mod wheel automation at the bottom. Since I don't play keyboards the modulation animation is drawn using the "automation curve" tool after the notes are manually placed where they belong. Same for expression automation. Also notice the master tempo at the top -- manually adjusted for push and pull feel.


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## TintoL (Dec 6, 2017)

Ben E said:


> Thank you!
> 
> The strings are using only the tree mics -- which is how they open "out of the box." For dynamics I used the mod wheel (well, sort of. See below...) and the expression control.
> 
> So here's a screen video of the piece. You can see the mod wheel automation at the bottom. Since I don't play keyboards the modulation animation is drawn using the "automation curve" tool after the notes are manually placed where they belong. Same for expression automation. Also notice the master tempo at the top -- manually adjusted for push and pull feel.





Ben, thank you so much for taking the time to make that video. It explained so many things. 

The sound is great and you are using only one mic. 
What I find astonishing is that you don't play the parts in the keyboard, you actually compose with the mouse. 

I was listening to your music in soundcloud. Awesome music, quite inspiring.

Thanks again for your answers.


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## Celestial Aeon (Dec 7, 2017)

First of all, excellent work both technically and composition wise, pure bliss <3

Only slight detail that comes to my mind is that some of the endings sound slightly a bit too abrupt / fast, but not all of them. In the very beginning mainly. I tend to find the releases and modwheel control to be the most critical thing in any virtual string lines and the dryer the samples the more important it is down to very detail level.

Anyways, excellent job!


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