# Simulating sul pont and sul tasto with EQ - possible?



## mducharme (Apr 17, 2011)

Hi all,

I frequently find I use sul ponticello and sul tasto on string instruments, and very few libraries actually have full blown samples of these.

It strikes me, however, that really the biggest difference between regular playing, sul pont and sul tasto is the intensity of the harmonics, therefore it stands to reason that one might be able to get a reasonable approximation of these techniques utilizing EQ.

I am wondering whether anybody has attempted doing this. Does it seem doable? Would there be a set of magic EQ settings somewhere that would give me that sound? I am not really much of a mixing expert, but do want to extend the articulations my string libraries provide.

Thanks


----------



## germancomponist (Apr 17, 2011)

Try this:

Duplicate your audio track and invert the phase from one. So then you will hear nothing. Then insert an eq in one track. Now, when you experiment with the frequency parameter ( small band) and the volume parameter for this parameter you maybe can find the sound what you are after.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 17, 2011)

Sul tasto sort of, but ponticello not really - in my opinion, of course. You won't get the sweet sound you get with real sul ponticello, but you can sort of get it by rolling off the highs.

VSL has sul tasto...I forget whether it has ponticello.


----------



## Stephen Baysted (Apr 18, 2011)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Apr 18 said:


> Sul tasto sort of, but ponticello not really - in my opinion, of course. You won't get the sweet sound you get with real sul ponticello, but you can sort of get it by rolling off the highs.
> 
> VSL has sul tasto...I forget whether it has ponticello.



Yup, Orch Strings has ponticello.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 18, 2011)

Okay, I'm inside out. Sorry, I haven't written for real strings in a very long time.

Sul tasto - near the fingerboard - that's the sweet sound you can probably simulate by rolling off the highs. Sort of, kind of, not really.

Sul ponticello - near the bridge - is an additive sound, and what it does isn't really there to bring out with EQ; you're more likely just to create a totally nasty sound.

Both really benefit from being part of the section. Sul tasto on solo strings is...well, it's an effect.


----------



## ozmorphasis (Apr 18, 2011)

Not possible. The degree to which ponticello brings out shifting harmonics (it's not at all consistent...that's the whole effect), is impossible with EQ.

There may very well be some other way of emulating this through processing, but EQ aint it.


----------



## germancomponist (Apr 18, 2011)

Has someone experimented in the way I described to use an eq? Adding then a little bit distortion could help.... . When I`m back in my studio I will experiment.


----------



## re-peat (Apr 19, 2011)

Will never work, Gunther. For one thing, because the frequency content (the distribution of frequencies, I mean) simply varies too much from one note to the next for any static EQ-setting to work across the entire range of pitches and dynamics, and secondly, because the timbre produced by both ponticello and sul tasto is fundamentally different from regular bowing. It's a different sound. And no EQ, no matter how capable or cleverly configured, is ever gonna bridge that gap convincingly.

With convolution you can get more or less from regular bowing to 'con sordino' bowing (as the Hollywood Strings demonstrate, even though it's still nowhere near the same thing), but ponticello and sul tasto really do need dedicated samples, it seems to me.

It's a very creative suggestion though, to offset two phase-switched versions of the same audiofile and then treat one differently than the other. Could very well produce a really interesting timbre.

_


----------



## germancomponist (Apr 19, 2011)

re-peat @ Tue Apr 19 said:


> It's a very creative suggestion though, to offset two phase-switched versions of the same audiofile and then treat one differently than the other. Could very well produce a really interesting timbre.
> 
> _



I use this method for testing eq`s and very often for sound design. In Kontakt, for example, you can do this by building 2 groups what are using the same sample. Inverse the phase from one group and then insert eq`s and other effects. This is a fantastic way to build new sounds.


----------



## Udo (Apr 19, 2011)

germancomponist @ Tue Apr 19 said:


> Has someone experimented in the way I described to use an eq? Adding then a little bit distortion could help.... . When I`m back in my studio I will experiment.


 Gunther, when you're back in your studio ......

...... can you get out those demos you promised of your approach to fast string runs that are as good as the OSR demos ....



germancomponist @ Sun Dec 12 said:


> Hm, to be honest, I can`t hear any different between the demos, done with OSR, and my older experimets what I did with EW, VSL, P. Siedlaczek`s and other string libraries.... .
> But I am sure there must be a way to let this OSR library sound better?! So more and better demos maybe will show us... .





germancomponist @ Wed Dec 15 said:


> Udo @ Tue Dec 14 said:
> 
> 
> > It would also interesting to hear the results of your experiments and how you approached it.
> ...


----------



## germancomponist (Apr 19, 2011)

Udo,

I posted a short snippet in another thread where you can hear my slur runs.

Listen: http://www.box.net/shared/ceg3lkvzah

It begins with real players, then a snippet from EW HS and then my slur runs. To get better results I have to record real strings in my way. I hope I can realize it this year.


----------

