# Apple event incoming! Oct. 18, 2021



## eakwarren (Oct 12, 2021)

New M1X MacBook Pros incoming?! Interesting the event is on a Monday. Likely to avoid the Google Pixel event on Tuesday.


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## nightjar (Oct 12, 2021)

Got my wallet ready!


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## Sovereign (Oct 12, 2021)

64gb Mac mini please.


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## Loïc D (Oct 12, 2021)

Got my wallet ready!


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## handz (Oct 12, 2021)

New 27 or better 32 6k imacs please.


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## colony nofi (Oct 12, 2021)

For us composers and noise makers, there are some things to be announced in this event which will be encouraging and helpful for some. However, it won't be covering the needs and wants of a decent sized group here. Good things are on their way (which we all kinda know right?) but not till 2022.
Still - exciting times. Apple silicon "M" based macs are really cool, interesting machines.


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## edhamilton (Oct 12, 2021)

64GB 16"MBP
128GB Imac 27"
128GB Mac Mini

any of those 3 would be instant purchases.

Yet - I think there's a good chance none of these will happen.
So the wait for M1X macPro might continue another year.


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## Tronam (Oct 12, 2021)

As much as my inner geek wants to wait for the next generation Mac Pro, I think I've reached a point where my personal performance needs will be easily met by whatever gets announced next week. Even the M1 is nearly enough. I mainly want more RAM and storage than anything else.


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## eakwarren (Oct 12, 2021)

Tronam said:


> my personal performance needs will be easily met by whatever gets announced next week


I'm in this camp as well, and I'm bracing for some astronomical prices due to "chip shortages."


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## eakwarren (Oct 12, 2021)

MacRumors has a story summarizing new leaker info.

"According to Dylandkt, the base 14 and 16-inch MacBook Pro models will feature 16GB RAM and 512GB of storage space, which is in line with the current high-end 13 and 16-inch MacBook Pro options.

As he has said previously, the new MacBook Pro models are also expected to feature an upgraded 1080p webcam, and the M1X chip will have the same configuration in both sizes with 10-core CPU.

Dylandkt claims Apple will provide a new charging brick, which is not a surprise since the upcoming machines are rumored to feature a new MagSafe charging port, which would necessitate new charging hardware.

The MacBook Pro models will feature mini-LED displays and smaller bezels with no bottom logo, which we have heard before, and pricing is expected to be similar between the two different sizes. The pricing gap between the 14 and 16-inch options will be "much more narrow" than the current 13 and 16-inch high-end MacBook Pro options.

Display analyst Ross Young earlier today said that the new MacBook Pro models could feature a 120Hz refresh rate for the mini-LED displays, and Dylandkt claims that 120Hz was "being tested on a Mac prototype" earlier in the year, but that he has "no clue when it's coming."


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## colony nofi (Oct 12, 2021)

eakwarren said:


> MacRumors has a story summarizing new leaker info.
> 
> "According to Dylandkt, the base 14 and 16-inch MacBook Pro models will feature 16GB RAM and 512GB of storage space, which is in line with the current high-end 13 and 16-inch MacBook Pro options.
> 
> ...


Yeah - these leaks are interesting, and go into way more detail than anything that apple is saying in private meetings. 
However, it should be stressed :
No one is expecting mac pro's. 
It is very doubtful we will ever see an M1(X) version of the mac pro. For a number of very good reasons outlined in reviews of the CPU architecture. There are many clues though as to the direction they are headed. Who knows what it will be called. 

Its fairly well understood that M1 = lower core count, lower ram. M1X = more cores, more ram. Performance machines. So will be in the MBP, as well as possibly a new imac (next year) and mac mini (I've heard conflicting things about time period for this one)

An M1X topping out at 64GB ram (no matter the format... imac, MBP, Mini) will all have their place for composers. It will satisify pretty much ALL of the hobbiests, and a bunch of the pros. The high end pros and hobbyists (of which we at vi-control are mostly members) who like to push performance and run large sessions etc will be waiting a while for 128GB + machines. I have not heard a single word from any meeting regarding confirmation of when this is coming. The only thing I have ever heard direct from apple is that they are working on a computer that will slot into the same market segment as the current mac pro. Take from that what you will, but given the MP can do 1.5TB of ram (and the VFX guys are using that much at times) I would suggest we will see something quite amazing (with price tag to match) sometime in the next year or so. The architecture of the M1 we have seen is just not scalable to this kind of machine. But there are hints as to what they might be doing. (and that includes having the RAM OFF the chip for the very high end machines.)


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## machinesworking (Oct 12, 2021)

colony nofi said:


> Yeah - these leaks are interesting, and go into way more detail than anything that apple is saying in private meetings.
> However, it should be stressed :
> No one is expecting mac pro's.
> It is very doubtful we will ever see an M1(X) version of the mac pro. For a number of very good reasons outlined in reviews of the CPU architecture. There are many clues though as to the direction they are headed. Who knows what it will be called.
> ...


My current Mac Pro is two separate 6 core 3.33Ghz chips machine. IMO it would make sense in terms of manufacturing to instead of designing a 40+ core single chip, Apple take multiple SOCs and use them in a single Mac Pro. Say the M2 scales up to 16-24 cores with 64 GB RAM, two of those along with whatever GB GPU They have would make a solid Mac Pro. I don't actually see Apple making a 64 core SOC, and I think it's very possible that Apple design their own GPU helper for their own SOC, but I kind of doubt they go back to third party RAM and GPU solutions.


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## colony nofi (Oct 12, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> My current Mac Pro is two separate 6 core 3.33Ghz chips machine. IMO it would make sense in terms of manufacturing to instead of designing a 40+ core single chip, Apple take multiple SOCs and use them in a single Mac Pro. Say the M2 scales up to 16-24 cores with 64 GB RAM, two of those along with whatever GB GPU They have would make a solid Mac Pro. I don't actually see Apple making a 64 core SOC, and I think it's very possible that Apple design their own GPU helper for their own SOC, but I kind of doubt they go back to third party RAM and GPU solutions.


Separate chips with their own RAM would break a lot of things about the current architecture. Sure - its *possible* but very very unlikely. Cache is designed to service each chip. Not RAM.

We need to perhaps looks at arm chips like the Ampera Altra to see where apple might head. These are designed as multi cpu machines - each with up to 80 cores (210W TDP) per chip. I think based on Arm v8.2+ (and from memory m1 was based on arm v8). I doubt we will see arm v9 until m2 or even m3.

For the M1, The RAM on the CPU really isn't anything more than throwing standard RAM on top of the CPU die. Its a pretty bog standard SOC implementation. There's no magic special sauce involved. Two CPU's with their own pool of ram kinda breaks a lot of things. And no matter what would require an off chip interconnect in order to funnel data from one set of ram to the other chip. Seems dubious at best. If they go down the route of multiple CPU's in order to go to higher core counts, it will involve RAM off the CPUs.


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## jcrosby (Oct 12, 2021)

eakwarren said:


> I'm in this camp as well, and I'm bracing for some astronomical prices due to "chip shortages."


Realistically you probably should....
The _shortages_ are real, and the prices of pretty much anything requiring any kind of microprocessor (especially new designs like Apple's) have gone up across the board; computers ironically being a bit more stable compared to industries typically overlooked, but equally reliant... (Medical-tech, automotive-tech, etc...)

E.G. - The cost of a car stereo I recently installed in the past 3 months for example went up between 20-25%. These aren't artificial costs either, as the manufacturers I went with has a long/strong history of remaining competitively priced despite being high quality... And, every equally positioned manufacturer's prices/availability fluctuated along-side it... (I.E. --- I went with Kenwood - Pioneer, Alpine, and any brand even remotely competitively-similar fluctuated in price and availability identically across the board.. Kenwood availability and pricing mirrored Alpine's, Pioneer's, etc...)

TL;DR - Despite any hype that may have surfaced over the past few months claiming that Apple is somehow immune to the same issue are more or less bullshit, even Apple will be affected... And if we know anything about Apple, if they pay more in manufacture we pay even more as consumer...

..........................

I'm sure you're aware of this, you wouldn't have mentioned it if you weren't...
I just think it's worth mentioning again... As this is some very real shit we're all going to be economically scrunched by over the next 6-18 months.... And computers barely scratch the surface of where we should expect to see costs rise...)


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## emilio_n (Oct 12, 2021)

I hope they present a Mac mini with 64Gb of RAM.


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## PhilipJohnston (Oct 12, 2021)

Don’t get your hopes up on 64GB RAM just yet - Luke Miani is not always right, but he’s very confident that only two configurations will be available for MacBook pros: 16GB and 32GB. See video below from 6:51


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## davidson (Oct 12, 2021)

I'd be happy with 32gb for the time being. I don't think we're going to see 64 this year.


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## LatinXCombo (Oct 13, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> 64gb Mac mini please.


I will compromise and accept a 32GB Mac Mini if you can upgrade the ram and storage by yourself.


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## LatinXCombo (Oct 13, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> TL;DR - Despite any hype that may have surfaced over the past few months claiming that Apple is somehow immune to the same issue are more or less bullshit, even Apple will be affected... And if we know anything about Apple, if they pay more in manufacture we pay even more as consumer...


OK, fine, 16 GB Mac Mini will do.


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## jcrosby (Oct 13, 2021)

LatinXCombo said:


> OK, fine, 16 GB Mac Mini will do.


I'm not saying there might not be anything new... I'm just saying people shouldn't expect that prices might not increase a little if that were the case... (Even then no way to know until the 18th)


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## emilio_n (Oct 13, 2021)

PhilipJohnston said:


> Don’t get your hopes up on 64GB RAM just yet - Luke Miani is not always right, but he’s very confident that only two configurations will be available for MacBook pros: 16GB and 32GB. See video below from 6:51



Yes, I am afraid that he could be right.
At the same time a lot of other sources talk about 64Gb. If the MX1 comes finally with 32gb of RAM, I think I will try to wait a few months to the new iMac 27...


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## machinesworking (Oct 13, 2021)

colony nofi said:


> Separate chips with their own RAM would break a lot of things about the current architecture. Sure - its *possible* but very very unlikely. Cache is designed to service each chip. Not RAM.
> 
> We need to perhaps looks at arm chips like the Ampera Altra to see where apple might head. These are designed as multi cpu machines - each with up to 80 cores (210W TDP) per chip. I think based on Arm v8.2+ (and from memory m1 was based on arm v8). I doubt we will see arm v9 until m2 or even m3.
> 
> For the M1, The RAM on the CPU really isn't anything more than throwing standard RAM on top of the CPU die. Its a pretty bog standard SOC implementation. There's no magic special sauce involved. Two CPU's with their own pool of ram kinda breaks a lot of things. And no matter what would require an off chip interconnect in order to funnel data from one set of ram to the other chip. Seems dubious at best. If they go down the route of multiple CPU's in order to go to higher core counts, it will involve RAM off the CPUs.


I'm just thinking it's very unlikely we see Apple design a chip specifically for their high end with 80 cores etc. Unlikely at 40 really. There's no money there. That said I think they do want to compete a bit for that prestige, so how do they get there? One way would be to go back to multi chip configurations, and repurposing some M2 for that configuration. You might be right about RAM off the CPUs but I don't think we will see off the shelf RAM and user configurable Mac Pros outside maybe PCI if that. The solution will be in house, I think that's almost a guarantee at this point.


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## handz (Oct 13, 2021)

Tronam said:


> As much as my inner geek wants to wait for the next generation Mac Pro, I think I've reached a point where my personal performance needs will be easily met by whatever gets announced next week. Even the M1 is nearly enough. I mainly want more RAM and storage than anything else.


Mac pro was always just an overpriced garbage to be overpowered by imacs costing 1/3 of the price soon after. No thanx. 🤡


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## handz (Oct 13, 2021)

So. How does these apple chips works in sample world? I mean there is no additional ram option. We need 64gb or more. 

BTW i got the 2020 imac this year and bought 128gb ram for it (not from apple of course) and oh my, it’s a good thing (I am doing lot of other system heavy stuff than music)


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## Alex Fraser (Oct 13, 2021)

Tronam said:


> As much as my inner geek wants to wait for the next generation Mac Pro, I think I've reached a point where my personal performance needs will be easily met by whatever gets announced next week. Even the M1 is nearly enough. I mainly want more RAM and storage than anything else.


Same here. I'm reasonably confident that a Mini M1X with 32Gb, coupled with some fast external storage would be fine for me. Not enough for a multi-mic Template of Sauron, but enough to fly in patches and use multi-mics when required. Small and silent is the key here.


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## colony nofi (Oct 13, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> I'm just thinking it's very unlikely we see Apple design a chip specifically for their high end with 80 cores etc. Unlikely at 40 really. There's no money there. That said I think they do want to compete a bit for that prestige, so how do they get there? One way would be to go back to multi chip configurations, and repurposing some M2 for that configuration. You might be right about RAM off the CPUs but I don't think we will see off the shelf RAM and user configurable Mac Pros outside maybe PCI if that. The solution will be in house, I think that's almost a guarantee at this point.


I agree multi cpu configs may occur. But just was pointing out they wont use RAM on the die for that particular setting - it just doesn't work with the architecture.

I doubt that they will develop RAM in house - that doesn't really make sense. There are so few RAM manufacturers in the world right now - that there would need to be a damn good reason to do it. If they wanted to lock it down, they'd just solder bog standard LP-DDR4X (if I remember correctly thats whats inside an m1 package) onto the motherboard. There's absolutely no reason to reinvent the wheel. I cannot personally see them doing this for the high end mac pros - which are 100% in development.

Ram use in the M1 is different to X86 though, in that it is shared between the cpu and gpu (and other processing!) How that plays out for machines with external graphics (which is coming!) will be interesting.


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## colony nofi (Oct 13, 2021)

handz said:


> Mac pro was always just an overpriced garbage to be overpowered by imacs costing 1/3 of the price soon after. No thanx. 🤡


I can't disagree further with this statement. It certainly is not a machine for everyone, but it is an incredible machine for certain workloads. The engineering is off the planet.

While things like the wheels (and stand for the monitor) are somewhat overpriced (hint - they are not for the target market - which is high end creative houses mostly for VFX / animation etc) there are other parts of the design which make workflows and workloads that would bring an imac to its knees able to work in a heartbeat. 

So its not for you. That doesn't make it garbage. Far from it. There's multi-million dollar buisnesses running BECAUSE of these machines, and gaining a competitive advantage over similar intel based workstations (often at a CHEAPER price point!)

Now - there are very few composers who could justify the cost of these machines - but that has more to do with the way the software we run is designed. There are *some* I know who ARE using those machines, and they work incredibly well for them (although they may have been able to go cheaper going PC, but certainly not be able to run their particular workflow on a 128GB imac.)

I'm first in line to bash the apple tax at times... but for some things, they kick butt. And one of those is the current mac pro. Its however been built for a VERY small market - and that was a very deliberate decision by apple.


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## Will Wilson (Oct 13, 2021)

My M1 MacBook Air (16GB RAM) is the best Mac I have ever owned (and I've owned a fair few). The RAM is a limitation compared to my 64GB iMac. If they release a Mac Mini with 32GB I will buy it without hesitation.


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## colony nofi (Oct 13, 2021)

Will Wilson said:


> My M1 MacBook Air (16GB RAM) is the best Mac I have ever owned (and I've owned a fair few). The RAM is a limitation compared to my 64GB iMac. If they release a Mac Mini with 32GB I will buy it without hesitation.


We have a couple M1 mac minis for post production, and they are handling about 80% of what a 6 or 8 core mac pro trash can could handle for fairly heavy sound design sessions. The other day we tested a full surround mix for a 23min animation show (done last year on a mac pro) and it didn't blink. This was several hundred tracks wide, and had tonnes of mix based routing (especially for being able to output multiple mixes and sets of stems at the same time). Pretty cool really. We are currently just using one as a sound edit based machine (loving the 10GbE built in - saves another piece of hardware) - but will likely test any updates that might come out in the near future based on M1X.
This is likely. It *may* end up being a different form factor to the mini, but no one seems to be talking about that. Doesn't bother us, so long as it doesn't have a screen. (imacs do not fit our workstation layouts)
32GB ram would be good - although this is less necessary for post. Nice to have a bit of headroom... the mix session was hitting pretty close to 14GB in use. 
Our expectation is actually a machine that is 100% identical to the new macbook pro (coming next week) in components but just a different form factor. So similar to how m1 air = m1 mbp = m1 mini = m1 imac (with a few slight tweaks of course)

(i think the m1 mini is the only one that has 10GbE right?)


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## samphony (Oct 13, 2021)

handz said:


> So. How does these apple chips works in sample world? I mean there is no additional ram option. We need 64gb or more.
> 
> BTW i got the 2020 imac this year and bought 128gb ram for it (not from apple of course) and oh my, it’s a good thing (I am doing lot of other system heavy stuff than music)





davidson said:


> I'd be happy with 32gb for the time being. I don't think we're going to see 64 this year.



I think it’s the other way around. 
VI sample player developers need to adjust their software for these types of processors and use the resources available more efficiently.


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## Alex Fraser (Oct 13, 2021)

I do wonder how this will play out. As the M1s are so capable (and presumably the M1X is better) I reckon they'll be more and more buyers who come "down market" as the "entry" machines become more powerful.

If we assume that the AS MacPro will be a monster - I wonder what it means for the Mac mid-market? Presumably Apple's decision to tie the ram to the CPU will limit the amount of options they want to offer? It's not hard to see a 27inch+ iMac being powered by M1X and Apple calling it a day on that front. It already appears that they're consolidating the CPU's between models as much as possible. The M1 powers 4.

In fact, if we're being really dramatic, this could be the most important Mac event *in years *from a VIC perspective. On the assumption that M1 and M1X models might power the entire non-Mac Pro range for now, then Mondays event will draw the line at where Apple considers the upper performance option for those non Mac Pro buyers. It'll ruffle a few feathers if that magic number is 32gb of ram.

Random thoughts over a sandwich. Feel free to destroy.


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## eakwarren (Oct 13, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Small and silent is the key here.


Agreed! Two of my kids in college have the M1 Macbook Air (no fan) and it’s dead silent. (Unlike my three other kids still at home!) When they visit I eye it jealously as my 2017 MBP spins up into “hair dryer mode” for no reason.


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## Alex Fraser (Oct 13, 2021)

eakwarren said:


> Agreed! Two of my kids in college have the M1 Macbook Air (no fan) and it’s dead silent. (Unlike my three other kids still at home!) When they visit I eye it jealously as my 2017 MBP spins up into “hair dryer mode” for no reason.


_<Looks wearingly at noisy Intel MbP.>_
Oh, yep.


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## dcoscina (Oct 13, 2021)

So my hopes for a iPad Mondo Pro 30" must be put on the back burner. But seriously, one wonders if Apple has a response to the Surface Studio.


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## eakwarren (Oct 13, 2021)

samphony said:


> VI sample player developers need to adjust their software for these types of processors and use the resources available more efficiently.


I recently picked up Staffpad and I’m impressed with the playback quality (and I haven’t even bought any of the premium libs yet.) And that’s based on inputting dots on a page and _one_ automation layer. I think devs could learn a thing or two from DWH and team. Imagine if Staffpad and Noteperformer got together and had a baby… 

The state of the nation for sample libs reminds me of the CPU Mhz race wars back in the day. It was all about clock speed. That was advertised as the only meaningful spec in consumer marketing… until they hit a ceiling in physics, then multi-core became the buzzword. Similarly, we’ve gone through the phase of MOAR SAMPLES = BETTER LIBS marketing and perhaps we’re hitting a ceiling there as well where the practicality of downloading and installing an almost 1TB orchestral library is a little ridiculous. (Looking at you BBCSO Pro.) Companies have kind of hidden or downplayed this by breaking up the orchestra sections and selling separate winds/brass/strings/perc collections. It’s genius marketing really. We fall for it because we gotta complete the collection. 

I think the move of the bigger devs away from Kontakt to an in-house player is forward-thinking, but let’s face it, most of these companies aren’t software devs at heart and it’s going to take a lot of time to mature their individual players to be at parity with Kontakt. And even then, that isn’t innovation in the way scripted (and then true) legato was. I’d love to see a shift away from throwing everything including the kitchen sink into a sample lib (_and thereby reducing the RAM footprint needed to load the sucker_) and towards making libs that are more musical, playable (for those with the keyboard chops), writable (for those with notation chops)…and ultimately enjoyable and satisfying so we don’t _need_ 10 different orch. libs. Each one seems to excel at _one_ thing, but collectively they all fall short at _something_. We had a legato revolution; it’s time for an anti-RAM revolution. (RAM is dead, long live RAM! )

TLDR; I’d love to see this new era of Apple Silicon encourage (or force) sample devs to think smarter, not larger.


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## eakwarren (Oct 13, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> one wonders if Apple has a response to the Surface Studio.


Is there really a market for one? In my (very limited) experience, I’ve never heard of a music/film/game producer, engineer or composer use the Surface Studio. I’d be happy to be incorrect. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love a huge pen and touch canvas, but it _would_ tie me to one location. I’ve grown fond of being able to compose literally anywhere.


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## dcoscina (Oct 13, 2021)

eakwarren said:


> Is there really a market for one? In my (very limited) experience, I’ve never heard of a music/film/game producer, engineer or composer use the Surface Studio. I’d be happy to be incorrect.
> 
> Don’t get me wrong, I’d love a huge pen and touch canvas, but it _would_ tie me to one location. I’ve grown fond of being able to compose literally anywhere.


Nick Dodd uses it for all his orchestrations 

If you don’t know who he is look him up on IMDB..


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## samphony (Oct 13, 2021)

eakwarren said:


> Is there really a market for one? In my (very limited) experience, I’ve never heard of a music/film/game producer, engineer or composer use the Surface Studio. I’d be happy to be incorrect.
> 
> Don’t get me wrong, I’d love a huge pen and touch canvas, but it _would_ tie me to one location. I’ve grown fond of being able to compose literally anywhere.


I would purchase a 24“ or bigger touchscreen from Apple as soon as it’s released. 

I see touch as an extension for creativity not as a replacement. But it needs to be native and with the same quality as an ipad pro. All third party workarounds I’ve tried in the past (Acer, Dell, Slate) were not to my satisfaction when it came to build quality. 

DIY is not my cup of tea either. Gave up on that.


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## Tronam (Oct 13, 2021)

handz said:


> So. How does these apple chips works in sample world? I mean there is no additional ram option. We need 64gb or more.


In my case I've been reducing the Kontakt buffer size so that it leans more heavily on streaming from disk than being memory resident. The internal SSD has been fast enough for this, at least in my projects.


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## eakwarren (Oct 13, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Nick Dodd uses it for all his orchestrations
> 
> If you don’t know who he is look him up on IMDB..


Interesting! I'm happily incorrect!  (Although, I was thinking more along the lines of regular DAW usage, not Staffpad.) Any vids or articles you've come across where he explains his process? A web search led me back to your post about talking with DWH.


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## Minsky (Oct 13, 2021)

eakwarren said:


> New M1X MacBook Pros incoming?! Interesting the event is on a Monday. Likely to avoid the Google Pixel event on Tuesday.


They're announcing a New Mac Pro with M1X with 747,000 Gb for £3000. Obviously.


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## handz (Oct 13, 2021)

Tronam said:


> In my case I've been reducing the Kontakt buffer size so that it leans more heavily on streaming from disk than being memory resident. The internal SSD has been fast enough for this, at least in my projects.


Well, they can be, but anything larger than 2TB with fast speed is still expensive (considering that anything apple is already enormously overpriced)


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## rnb_2 (Oct 13, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Nick Dodd uses it for all his orchestrations
> 
> If you don’t know who he is look him up on IMDB..


The Surface Studio still strikes me as a halo/vanity project, especially when you look at the price - it starts at $3500, but is currently out of stock at Microsoft (which maybe hints at a replacement on the way). I hear Mac people pining for something similar, but I honestly have not seen anything to indicate that Microsoft has sold very many, and the last time I checked the support forums on their site, there were murmurings of hardware issues that weren't being addressed.

Admittedly, one of the major problems that the Surface Studio has had to contend with is the balancing act between power-hungry and hot Intel CPUs and Nvidia GPUs and keeping the base unit, where all of the processing/RAM/storage is located, at a reasonable size to facilitate the drafting mode. Could Apple do something better with M1X? Almost certainly, and it would be nice to see them move away from the current era of extreme minimalism to more functional designs (hopefully hinted at by the rumors of ports being added back on the M1X MacBook Pros). In all honesty, though, I'd be surprised if they go further than a slightly less minimalistic iMac stand (and they might not even do that).


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## eakwarren (Oct 13, 2021)

Tronam said:


> I've been reducing the Kontakt buffer size so that it leans more heavily on streaming from disk than being memory resident. The internal SSD has been fast enough for this, at least in my projects.


Yep, same here. I also tweaked the buffer and other settings in the Spitfire player and now I can load pretty much the base orchestra for live tutti.


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## eakwarren (Oct 13, 2021)

Minsky said:


> They're announcing a New Mac Pro with M1X with 747,000 Gb for £3000. Obviously.


Flip it, it's got 3000GB and costs $747,000! 
.
.
.
.
.
(I think in Europe, the "," is the same as the "." in the US, but I mean literally seven hundred forty seven THOUSAND dollars/euro. ...and now I've ruined my own joke by explaining it. )


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## eakwarren (Oct 13, 2021)

I know it's not part of this update cycle, but I'd be happy with a 32GB MacBook Air.


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## Delboy (Oct 13, 2021)

Be good if they would sort out multi monitors - every year we wait


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## KEM (Oct 13, 2021)

Really hoping for an Apple Silicon based Mac Mini that supports 64gb of ram and a 4tb hard drive, I'm holding off buying a new computer until that option becomes available


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## Tronam (Oct 13, 2021)

handz said:


> Well, they can be, but anything larger than 2TB with fast speed is still expensive (considering that anything apple is already enormously overpriced)


It's true, but whenever I try to price out large external drive solutions with a similar sustained performance level of Apple's internal SSDs (2.5-3 gigabytes/sec) the pricing goes up significantly, especially with the additional Thunderbolt tax. Maybe I'm just not aware of the best options though and would love some excellent suggestions. The one external SSD I have which sits in the 1-1.5GB/sec range gets pretty hot and begins to throttle after a while, so perhaps I'll need to consider an enclosure with good built-in cooling. OWC has a nice looking TB3 M.2 enclosure for ~$350 which taps out at 2800MB/sec, which I'm assuming is TB3’s theoretical maximum throughput. Along with two 2TB high speed M.2 drives (that I'd run striped as one RAID-0 logical drive), it would come out to about $1000. That's the same price as the 4TB SSD upgrade in the 16" MacBook Pro.


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## khollister (Oct 13, 2021)

Tronam said:


> It's true, but whenever I try to price out large external drive solutions with a similar sustained performance level of Apple's internal SSDs (2.5-3 gigabytes/sec) the pricing goes up significantly, especially with the additional Thunderbolt tax. Maybe I'm just not aware of the best options though and would love some excellent suggestions. The one external SSD I have which sits in the 1-1.5GB/sec range gets pretty hot and begins to throttle after a while, so perhaps I'll need to consider an enclosure with good built-in cooling. OWC has a nice looking TB3 M.2 enclosure for ~$350 which taps out at 2800MB/sec, which I'm assuming is TB3’s theoretical maximum throughput. Along with two 2TB high speed M.2 drives (that I'd run striped as one RAID-0 logical drive), it would come out to about $1000. That's the same price as the 4TB SSD upgrade in the 16" MacBook Pro.


Be aware that the OWC 4M2 enclosure has PCIe 1.0 lanes insternally, so an individual NVMe blade in that enclosure only gets about 800 MB/s. The 2800 MBs advertised speed is only if you have 4 blades in RAID 0..

If you just want to run JBOD, I am not aware of an external TB case that will provide 2000+ MBs on an individual blade.


----------



## mscp (Oct 13, 2021)

It's probably going to be another uneventful 2-3 hours blab show about how many app store downloads there have been, profit margin BS, minor updates to stuff (even if it's a product launch), ...

But hey..this year could be different. lol.

They want to make investors happy...the rest is bonus.


----------



## rnb_2 (Oct 13, 2021)

mscp said:


> It's probably going to be another uneventful 2-3 hours blab show about how many app store downloads there have been, profit margin BS, minor updates to stuff (even if it's a product launch), ...
> 
> But hey..this year could be different. lol.
> 
> They want to make investors happy...the rest is bonus.


Since they moved to pre-recorded events due to the pandemic, almost all Apple events have been around an hour, and I don't think any have been even 90 minutes.


----------



## mscp (Oct 13, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> Since they moved to pre-recorded events due to the pandemic, almost all Apple events have been around an hour, and I don't think any have been even 90 minutes.


Ok...so it's probably going to be another uneventful 60 minutes blab show about how many app store downloads there have been, profit margin BS, minor updates to stuff (even if it's a product launch), lol.


----------



## rnb_2 (Oct 13, 2021)

mscp said:


> Ok...so it's probably going to be another uneventful 60 minutes blab show about how many app store downloads there have been, profit margin BS, minor updates to stuff (even if it's a product launch), lol.


You can just say "I haven't watched an Apple event in a while, probably won't watch this one" - nobody will hold it against you.


----------



## Technostica (Oct 13, 2021)

USB 4.0 with full bandwidth will be useful. 
20Gbs per port and the enclosures and cables will be cheaper and get cheaper over time.


----------



## bdr (Oct 13, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Nick Dodd uses it for all his orchestrations
> 
> If you don’t know who he is look him up on IMDB..


wow! From my memory of working with Nick and his total disinterest in tech, he must have an assistant standing by to push the on and off switch...

Of course, a genius orchestrator though, made my music sound like I was pretty good.


----------



## dcoscina (Oct 13, 2021)

bdr said:


> wow! From my memory of working with Nick and his total disinterest in tech, he must have an assistant standing by to push the on and off switch...
> 
> Of course, a genius orchestrator though, made my music sound like I was pretty good.


Actually, David William Hearn did a lot of the mock-ups from his orchestrations for years and now that Nick uses the Surface Pro and StaffPad, he doesn't need David's services anymore. He jokes that his StaffPad creation put him out of a job with Dodd..


----------



## rnb_2 (Oct 13, 2021)

khollister said:


> Be aware that the OWC 4M2 enclosure has PCIe 1.0 lanes insternally, so an individual NVMe blade in that enclosure only gets about 800 MB/s. The 2800 MBs advertised speed is only if you have 4 blades in RAID 0..
> 
> If you just want to run JBOD, I am not aware of an external TB case that will provide 2000+ MBs on an individual blade.


For multi-blade enclosures, I haven't seen an implementation that doesn't assume RAID0/4/5 if you're looking for performance - there very well could be a technical hurdle here, since they all seem to behave similarly to the OWC 4M2.

The only single-blade DIY enclosures that I've seen that offer >2GB/s are Orico's transparent plastic models, which claim 2.3GB/s read and 2.1GB/s write. I have the USB-C version of that enclosure, and while it does have an aluminum plate for heat dissipation, I prefer a metal enclosure with a bit more secure closure than the Orico, which is a tool-less design that relies on tension between two plastic parts to stay closed. I've had good luck with the OWC Envoy Express - 1.5GB/s seems to be plenty for anything I've thrown at them.


----------



## khollister (Oct 14, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> For multi-blade enclosures, I haven't seen an implementation that doesn't assume RAID0/4/5 if you're looking for performance - there very well could be a technical hurdle here, since they all seem to behave similarly to the OWC 4M2.


I suspect it is simply a cost saving measure based on intended use. Since most consumers of these solutions are probably doing video, striping is common practice to obtain large volumes with high sustained throughput. TB3/4 currently has a 2800 MBs limit due to bandwidth reserved for video, so going to the expense of implementing an internal PCIe 3.0 or 4.0 connection to the blades is wasted money - having a theoretical 8 GBs bandwidth is useless when the pipe to the computer is limited to 2.8 GBs.

While there have been many tests and threads about RAID being useless for sample streaming (other than volume management), it is probably the best way to make use of one of these multiple NVMe chassis given the design constraints. Of course any failure means the entire stripe set goes down, not just the content on the failed blade.


----------



## LatinXCombo (Oct 14, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> I'm not saying there might not be anything new... I'm just saying people shouldn't expect that prices might not increase a little if that were the case... (Even then no way to know until the 18th)


*Sigh* All right, you've talked me into it, I'll just upgrade my existing 2018 Mac Mini to 64GB. 

But that's my final offer, take it or I walk.


----------



## machinesworking (Oct 17, 2021)

Maybe I'm optimistic, but everything points to at the very least much higher specced Macbook Pros being announced, and I'm already having preemptive buyers remorse about getting a 4TB SSD version, (I hate spending money on things like computers that lose value, natural spendthrift etc.), and whatever RAM I can afford. Considering how much I can do with the 12 core 09 mac pro here, a true all in one laptop would be ideal to me. 

The current M1 Macbook Pro matches my Mac Pro in performance, so if the new one near doubles it, then the Mac Pro becomes a legacy machine, and I won't need an Apple Silicon Mac Pro at all.


----------



## handz (Oct 18, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> You can just say "I haven't watched an Apple event in a while, probably won't watch this one" - nobody will hold it against you.


Looks like we have a hardcore Apple fan here  Did you watch the last event? That felt like 5 hours. And yet they told absolutely nothing other that their new phone is best phone they ever made (SURPRISE )


----------



## Alex Fraser (Oct 18, 2021)

Best bet is to wait a couple of days for the "Apple event in 10 minutes" edits.

That said, I'm a sucker for the reveals and events, be it Apple, Spitfire, what-have-you. This is an all consuming vocation/hobby and we might as well enjoy the hype train. Else it's just dark rooms and CC mangling.


----------



## Zedcars (Oct 18, 2021)

KEM said:


> Really hoping for an Apple Silicon based Mac Mini that supports 64gb of ram and a 4tb hard drive, I'm holding off buying a new computer until that option becomes available


The rumors suggest that a Mac Mini with M1X, 64GB RAM and 4 Thunderbolt ports indeed looks like a possibility. If they are available to buy immediately in the UK I'll be ordering. 

If not then I guess I'll just have to wait.


----------



## davidson (Oct 18, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> The rumors suggest that a Mac Mini with M1X, 64GB RAM and 4 Thunderbolt ports indeed looks like a possibility. If they are available to buy immediately in the UK I'll be ordering.
> 
> If not then I guess I'll just have to wait.


Well I hope the TB/USBC ports work this time around and don't randomly disconnect.


----------



## KEM (Oct 18, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> The rumors suggest that a Mac Mini with M1X, 64GB RAM and 4 Thunderbolt ports indeed looks like a possibility. If they are available to buy immediately in the UK I'll be ordering.
> 
> If not then I guess I'll just have to wait.



We will know soon enough!! I’m really hoping those rumors prove to be true


----------



## samphony (Oct 18, 2021)

davidson said:


> Well I hope the TB/USBC ports work this time around and don't randomly disconnect.


What do you mean?

I have mac minis m1 and intel. None of them randomly disconnect.


----------



## davidson (Oct 18, 2021)

samphony said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> I have mac minis m1 and intel. None of them randomly disconnect.


Do you have any drives directly connected to the TB ports using a usbc cable? Literally hundreds of threads about it on reddit, apple forums etc. You can get around it by using the usba ports and having a hub connected to that, but still, it's not great having usbc drives you can't connect directly. 





__





External SSD Disconnects Repeatedly Mac M… - Apple Community







discussions.apple.com


----------



## Alex Fraser (Oct 18, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> The rumors suggest that a Mac Mini with M1X, 64GB RAM and 4 Thunderbolt ports indeed looks like a possibility. If they are available to buy immediately in the UK I'll be ordering.
> 
> If not then I guess I'll just have to wait.


That would be the sweet spot for all but the hardcore. Fingers crossed.


----------



## kevinh (Oct 18, 2021)

Buddy works at Apple. Because of chips shortage they are switching to pretzels.


----------



## machinesworking (Oct 18, 2021)

handz said:


> Looks like we have a hardcore Apple fan here  Did you watch the last event? That felt like 5 hours. And yet they told absolutely nothing other that their new phone is best phone they ever made (SURPRISE )


 You know you can throw on the event and do other things right? If I'm not working when they're on that's what I do, if they touch on interesting things I look and pay attention. The ones announcing Apple Silicon, and annoucning the M1 Air, Mini and 13" pro were interesting, I expect this one to be as well, for the same reasons. 
This also begs the question, if you find their events universally uninteresting, why even read or post in this thread? It's almost a given this one is going to announce a serious contender for, or likely easily fastest, laptop chip out there. This isn't likely to be their dullest iphone presentation event etc.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 18, 2021)

davidson said:


> Do you have any drives directly connected to the TB ports using a usbc cable? Literally hundreds of threads about it on reddit, apple forums etc. You can get around it by using the usba ports and having a hub connected to that, but still, it's not great having usbc drives you can't connect directly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe once every six weeks I get a "you didn't disconnect the drive properly" message (when I didn't disconnect the drive) on my 5,1 Mac Pro. Most recently that happened to an external SSD connected to a USB2 port (the drive is in a USB enclosure).

Is that caused by something different? No idea.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Oct 18, 2021)

ka00 said:


>


Perfect. And a slightly uncomfortable truth. 😅


----------



## davidson (Oct 18, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Maybe once every six weeks I get a "you didn't disconnect the drive properly" message (when I didn't disconnect the drive) on my 5,1 Mac Pro. Most recently that happened to an external SSD connected to a USB2 port (the drive is in a USB enclosure).
> 
> Is that caused by something different? No idea.


I'd say unrelated, yeah. The m1 laptops and imac don't have the same issue so it looks to be m1 mini only. It also happens mush more frequently than every few weeks too - several times a day sometimes.


----------



## MaxOctane (Oct 18, 2021)

Oooo, Tim Cook immediately starts keynote saying it will focus on Music. YEAHH


----------



## machinesworking (Oct 18, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> Oooo, Tim Cook immediately starts keynote saying it will focus on Music. YEAHH


M1 "Pro"
lol!


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh (Oct 18, 2021)

ok... so it's 32gb ram.


----------



## CT (Oct 18, 2021)

Did I miss my chance for an Intel Mini? Was literally trying to buy one when the Apple Store went down for upgrades....


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh (Oct 18, 2021)

oh I see what they did there. M1 MAX lol....64gb ram! 😂


----------



## mscp (Oct 18, 2021)

oh, wow! haha.


----------



## Technostica (Oct 18, 2021)

Where’s the M1 Max Pro? 
GPU and memory sound very impressive, but the CPU seems not to have been given the same level of attention.
The much higher memory bandwidth should help the cores though.


----------



## CT (Oct 18, 2021)

I've never watched one of these things before. I now begin to understand why some people are so rabidly annoyed by Apple....


----------



## machinesworking (Oct 18, 2021)

ports are back,


----------



## machinesworking (Oct 18, 2021)

not hard edges, glad for that, would have been a dumb design choice.


----------



## Manaberry (Oct 18, 2021)

Who's gotta pay for those GPU cores to make music?


----------



## mscp (Oct 18, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> ports are back,


It's like they thought: Hmm, we have taken everything away from the customer, and our profit margins have lowered, so....let's bring it all back, and make it smell like epiphany.


----------



## machinesworking (Oct 18, 2021)

Manaberry said:


> Who's gotta pay for those GPU cores to make music?


Yeah, I'm a little worried about the price difference for 64GB. This determines if I attempt to go all in one, or still rely on VEP for big templates.


----------



## machinesworking (Oct 18, 2021)

mscp said:


> It's like they thought: Hmm, we have taken everything away from the customer, and our profit margins have lowered, so....let's bring it all back, and make it smell like epiphany.


To be fair the low end line never had that many ports, so nothing changed for the worse is more like it.


----------



## Pier (Oct 18, 2021)

The MBPs are impressive but that notch is kinda fugly


----------



## machinesworking (Oct 18, 2021)

OK crap, they've added in everyones requests, 1080p camera, 120hz display, ports etc. etc. this isn't gonna be cheap. Hopefully not more expensive...


----------



## machinesworking (Oct 18, 2021)

Pier said:


> The MBPs are impressive but that notch is kinda fugly


Agreed but I'm always in Dark mode, so I will hardly notice it.


----------



## Technostica (Oct 18, 2021)

Video people are having their minds blown by these.


----------



## KEM (Oct 18, 2021)

Apple came out swinging for this event, wow


----------



## Virtuoso (Oct 18, 2021)

Here comes the price... 

Base price not too bad, but I bet when the store comes back up it's around $6k for a Max with 64GB.


----------



## Daren Audio (Oct 18, 2021)

M1 64 GB RAM...SWEET! After Effects, Blender, Final Cut Pro, Da Vinci Resolve, Motion, Affinity, Orchestral Music Compositions...


----------



## machinesworking (Oct 18, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> Here comes the price...
> 
> Base price not too bad, but I bet when the store comes back up it's around $6k for a Max with 64GB.


Yeah, that's the "fun" part. Hopefully it isn't terrifying


----------



## Pier (Oct 18, 2021)

Damn no new iMac or Mac Pro!


----------



## Zedcars (Oct 18, 2021)

No Mac Mini M1 Max yet then. Bummer


----------



## MaxOctane (Oct 18, 2021)

Too bad, no Logic Pro update. I really thought it was coming.


----------



## KEM (Oct 18, 2021)

Was really hoping for a new Mac Mini


----------



## IFM (Oct 18, 2021)

Pier said:


> Damn no new iMac or Mac Pro!


Ya the Mini was what I was waiting for, don't care about any more laptops but I get that's their biggest area. Back to waiting before the vader mac gets replaced.


----------



## el-bo (Oct 18, 2021)

Apple done fucking killed it!!!!!! 

:emoji_astonished::emoji_astonished::emoji_astonished:


----------



## Zedcars (Oct 18, 2021)

KEM said:


> Was really hoping for a new Mac Mini


Early next year maybe?


----------



## Virtuoso (Oct 18, 2021)

Well, I'm shocked. $3899 for a 16" 64GB Max with 1TB SSD. That's extremely reasonable! Buying one right away - might upgrade to 2TB for $400 more.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh (Oct 18, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> Too bad, no Logic Pro update. I really thought it was coming.


There is... they just didn't talk about it. You could see in the videos ATMOS objects flying around in a native plugin.


----------



## Vik (Oct 18, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> this isn't gonna be cheap


$2000 /2500 for the core models (14"/16").


----------



## mscp (Oct 18, 2021)

So close. ha.


----------



## Manaberry (Oct 18, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> There is... they just didn't talk about it. You could see in the videos ATMOS objects flying around in a native plugin.


That's funny to see Dolby Atmos when they label it as "Spatial Audio" on Apple Music. Always changing a few things just to piss off producers.


----------



## KEM (Oct 18, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> Early next year maybe?



That sounds likely, I’d imagine it’s in their new round of Mac updates


----------



## Markrs (Oct 18, 2021)

Not small change, but I thought the price would be higher than that. Still too much for a hobbiest though.


----------



## Tronam (Oct 18, 2021)

Not as expensive as I was expecting, especially considering the larger 10-bit, 120Hz panels and performance uptick. They certainly saved manufacturing cost by ditching the TouchBar and Intel's exorbitantly overpriced CPUs and chipsets. The return of MagSafe and the additional ports is the final sweeping away of Jony Ive's legacy of obsession with minimalist form over function.


----------



## Technostica (Oct 18, 2021)

£400 to upgrade from 32 to 64GB is about half the price of the upgrades on the M1 which is a nice surprise.


----------



## yiph2 (Oct 18, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Not small change, but I thought the price would be higher than that. Still too much for a hobbiest though.


FYI if you go for the second tier M1 Pro, you can upgrade to the Max with a 24core GPU saving a bit


----------



## Tronam (Oct 18, 2021)

KEM said:


> Was really hoping for a new Mac Mini


I was too, although considering even the 5 month old 24" iMac is still, even now, 3-4 weeks back ordered I don't know how many new computers they can actually launch at once and have enough chips to go around. Maybe a new mini will get announced alongside the 27" iMac replacement next spring or WWDC.


----------



## el-bo (Oct 18, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Not small change, but I thought the price would be higher than that. *Still too much for a hobbiest though.*


But so too, arguably, is the Max chip, the full 64gb ram and the 2tb drive. Also, many are going to have the laptop hooked up to an external screen, meaning that even more money can be saved on the screen-size. This bodes even better for the next 'Mini', should it get the same treatment


----------



## shropshirelad (Oct 18, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Not small change, but I thought the price would be higher than that. Still too much for a hobbiest though.


The equivalent of $5,630.57 at today's rates!


----------



## Zedcars (Oct 18, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> Well, I'm shocked. $3899 for a 16" 64GB Max with 1TB SSD. That's extremely reasonable! Buying one right away - might upgrade to 2TB for $400 more.


I see your 16” 64GB Max with 1TB SSD and I raise you 7TB extra for all the additional sample libraries you might have bought if you weren’t already broke…


----------



## Markrs (Oct 18, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> FYI if you go for the second tier M1 Pro, you can upgrade to the Max with a 24core GPU saving a bit


Given the cost, my instinct is to go for the 32core GPU for the extra £100.


----------



## Markrs (Oct 18, 2021)

shropshirelad said:


> The equivalent of $5,630.57 at today's rates!


I think it is quite above just adding VAT onto the US prices sadly


----------



## Virtuoso (Oct 18, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Not small change, but I thought the price would be higher than that. Still too much for a hobbiest though.


I just ordered that exact configuration!  Delivers Nov 3-5.

I've been using the same MacBook Pro since Late 2013 - this is the first time in 8 years that I've actually wanted to replace it. Great that Apple seem to have learned from all their missteps from the past few years with thinness, crappy keyboards, no ports, noisy fans, rubbish graphics etc. And the memory upgrade prices no longer feel like prison sex! 

Woot! Comes with 3 months of AppleTV+ free. That's a $15 value!!


----------



## Markrs (Oct 18, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> I see your 16” 64GB Max with 1TB SSD and I raise you 7TB extra for all the additional sample libraries you might have bought if you weren’t already broke…


That is a beast of a machine, though. If I made a good living from music, I would be tempted.


----------



## Pier (Oct 18, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> No Mac Mini M1 Max yet then. Bummer


Yeah... I was expecting that one too.


----------



## Pier (Oct 18, 2021)

3DC said:


> I feel sorry for AMD and Intel. After this presentation their notebook processors seems obsolete. Impressive performance from M1Max but 2500 bucks for notebook is no go for me. Better save some money for Mac Pro.
> 
> One has to wonder what a beast this is going to be? Anyone dare to speculate specs after M1 Max?



Everything by Intel and AMD is obsolete at this point.

My Ryzen 3700X which was a beast when I bought it in 2019, is comparable to the low end M1 for casual users.


----------



## Markrs (Oct 18, 2021)

Pier said:


> Everything by Intel and AMD is obsolete at this point.
> 
> My Ryzen 3700X which was a beast when I bought it in 2019, is comparable to the low end M1 for casual users.


Agree. I would rather stay on Windows and I like that my desktop PC is upgradable, but these are likely to trounce my 3600 CPU.


----------



## machinesworking (Oct 18, 2021)

Torn about the SSD, 4TB really covers it, but an extra $1000 is painful. My main concern is that VEP with an additional computer might still be the better choice with 64GB of sample libraries.


----------



## Technostica (Oct 18, 2021)

Pier said:


> Everything by Intel and AMD is obsolete at this point.
> 
> My Ryzen 3700X which was a beast when I bought it in 2019, is comparable to the low end M1 for casual users.


For laptops these have staggering performance but they only stated up to a 70% increase in CPU performance.
So it will be interesting to see how it compares to a 16 core desktop system, keeping in line with the comparison you made.


----------



## Pier (Oct 18, 2021)

Technostica said:


> For laptops these have staggering performance but they only stated up to a 70% increase in CPU performance.
> So it will be interesting to see how it compares to a 16 core desktop system, keeping in line with the comparison you made.


My point was not so much that the M1 Max/Pro will outperform all current desktop chips (although they will outperform most desktop chips).

What I meant was that Apple's approach is the way forward. Intel and AMD will have to play catch-up while Apple has easily 5-10 years of advantage.

That said, when Apple releases the 128 core chip for the Mac Pro it will be endgame.


----------



## Technostica (Oct 18, 2021)

Pier said:


> My point was not so much that the M1 Max/Pro will outperform all current desktop chips (although they will outperform most desktop chips).
> 
> What I meant was that Apple's approach is the way forward. Intel and AMD will have to play catch-up while Apple has easily 5-10 years of advantage.
> 
> That said, when Apple releases the 128 core chip for the Mac Pro it will be endgame.


Keep in mind that the majority of the performance gains are of zero relevance for most software. 
That's why I focused on the CPU performance and it will be interesting to see how that plays out in real world usage. 
Tremendous achievement but a lot of unknowns still. 
The price makes these irrelevant to many people also. 
But for the first time in a long while, Apple are able to differentiate themselves significantly from the pack. 
I can see these rightly selling in enormous numbers.


----------



## handz (Oct 18, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> This also begs the question, if you find their events universally uninteresting, why even read or post in this thread?


Because I am waiting for PRO apple chip and was interested in what the rumors are.


----------



## emilio_n (Oct 18, 2021)

I think the iMacs and Macs Minis could arrive before the year-end. They just need to move the same specs to a different enclosure.


----------



## jbuhler (Oct 18, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> I just ordered that exact configuration!  Delivers Nov 3-5.
> 
> I've been using the same MacBook Pro since Late 2013 - this is the first time in 8 years that I've actually wanted to replace it. Great that Apple seem to have learned from all their missteps from the past few years with thinness, crappy keyboards, no ports, noisy fans, rubbish graphics etc. And the memory upgrade prices no longer feel like prison sex!
> 
> Woot! Comes with 3 months of AppleTV+ free. That's a $15 value!!


I'm still running a 2012 i7 15" macbook pro with 16GB. Pre-retina and it has a DVD drive! I also have not had any desire to replace it with a new machine until now. I still don't plan to do it until the old machine becomes unworkable, but at least I'm no longer dreading the idea of replacing it.


----------



## mscp (Oct 18, 2021)

Pier said:


> Everything by Intel and AMD is obsolete at this point.
> 
> My Ryzen 3700X which was a beast when I bought it in 2019, is comparable to the low end M1 for casual users.


What do you mean obsolete? You can't work on your music with what you have anymore? I still run an i9 10900 PC and haven't really seen any CPU issues with my 800 tracks template yet. I don't know anything about the Ryzen though. I'm sure Intel and AMD will do something about it. Wait a year.

I still support PC desktops because of maximum upgradability, but I have to give credit where credit is due. Their new MacBook Pro line is definitely something. Of course, it won't be enough to use it as a main machine (as I doubt it ever will), but for location/remote work, it will thrive. I may get one down the line (after watching several performance reviews).


----------



## Pier (Oct 18, 2021)

3DC said:


> Not that much of advantage. Both Intel and AMD can switch relatively fast to RISC(ARM) type processors.


It took Apple 10 or so years of designing ARM chips to get here.

Intel and AMD have definitely more chip experience and knowledge, but at the same time they have been solving very different sets of problems.

Time will tell.


----------



## Technostica (Oct 18, 2021)

Apple's biggest advantage is that they control the whole stack. 
Intel/AMD are dependent on Microsoft to implement changes in Windows. 
It's a much bigger and slower moving market that demands backwards compatability. 
Apple are small enough and don't care so much about compatibility so they can plough ahead. 
Very impressed, even though there's nothing of specific interest to myself.


----------



## Pier (Oct 18, 2021)

mscp said:


> What do you mean obsolete? You can't work on your music with what you have anymore? I still run an i9 10900 PC and haven't really seen any CPU issues with my 800 tracks template yet. I don't know anything about the Ryzen though. I'm sure Intel and AMD will do something about it. Wait a year.


Well, you can still move around with a horse, can't you? But horses became obsolete the moment cars started appearing.

Time will tell, but I doubt Intel and AMD will be able to produce a chip similar to the M1 in less than 3 years.


----------



## rnb_2 (Oct 18, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> I think the iMacs and Macs Minis could arrive before the year-end. They just need to move the same specs to a different enclosure.


I'd guess March - they've had a March event most years lately, and it gives them a few months to clear the first batch of MacBook Pro orders out (🤞 - looking at the 24" iMac). We could see Mac mini and bigger iMac in a desktop Mac event, or a Mac mini + iPad Air update, with the iMac coming at WWDC. Happy to be wrong, of course, but it would be odd to release something closer to the holidays - the only time things come out that late in the year, they have a preview earlier and say "available before the end of the year".


----------



## mscp (Oct 18, 2021)

Pier said:


> Well, you can still move around with a horse, can't you? But horses became obsolete the moment cars started appearing.



They still make CPUs, and very powerful ones. Far from being obsolete.



Pier said:


> Time will tell, but I doubt Intel and AMD will be able to produce a chip similar to the M1 in less than 3 years.



Well, I surely hope not. Let's see. I detest soldered-on components (unless we're talking about laptops).


----------



## Technostica (Oct 18, 2021)

Pier said:


> Well, you can still move around with a horse, can't you? But horses became obsolete the moment cars started appearing.
> 
> Time will tell, but I doubt Intel and AMD will be able to produce a chip similar to the M1 in less than 3 years.


When you consider what most people do with computers, beyond a certain point and it becomes almost as irrelevant as driving around a crowded city in a 200 mph super car. 

The bigger deal here for many will be the low noise and heat levels, the battery life and the build quality. 
So it's more about the comfort and design of the interior and the MPG, rather than the engine performance. 
Which is fine as many people buy luxury cars and choose the smallest engine and don't drive them hard.


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## Nimrod7 (Oct 18, 2021)

Manaberry said:


> That's funny to see Dolby Atmos when they label it as "Spatial Audio" on Apple Music. Always changing a few things just to piss off producers.


Seems to be another layer on top of Dolby Atmos.

"In a nutshell, Dolby Atmos creates the effect of watching a movie at a cinema or listening to music at a live concert — the sound comes from all around you (center, left, right, above and behind) — and Spatial Audio *adds* another layer that makes you feel like you're in movie or moving around at the concert."

Source:








Spatial Audio vs Dolby Atmos: What's the Difference?


Apple Music now supports Spatial Audio and Dolby Atmos. But what does each immersive audio technology do? And how do they work together?




www.gearpatrol.com





But yeah, agree they should have called it Atmos 2 or something.


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## Pier (Oct 18, 2021)

mscp said:


> They still make CPUs, and very powerful ones. Far from being obsolete.


Yeah but it's like the coyote floating in the air for a couple of seconds


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## Pier (Oct 18, 2021)

Technostica said:


> The bigger deal here for many will be the low noise and heat levels, the battery life and the build quality.
> So it's more about the comfort and design of the interior and the MPG, rather than the engine performance.


Oh yeah, I didn't mean only performance but also power consumption and heat.


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## synergy543 (Oct 18, 2021)

I have USB dongles and too many USB drives. What hubs are available for converting Thunderbolt 4 to USB? Most of the Thunderbolt 4 I see have only one USB port.


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## rnb_2 (Oct 18, 2021)

synergy543 said:


> I have USB dongles and too many USB drives. What hubs are available for converting Thunderbolt 4 to USB? Most of the Thunderbolt 4 I see have only one USB port.


You want the CalDigit Element Hub - hard to get because of supply chain issues, but it takes one Thunderbolt and splits it into 3 Thunderbolt and 4 USB-A.


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## Tronam (Oct 18, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> You want the CalDigit Element Hub - hard to get because of supply chain issues, but it takes on Thunderbolt and splits it into 3 Thunderbolt and 4 USB-A.


I've been trying to find one of these for 2 months now. I was worried it had been discontinued.


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## synergy543 (Oct 18, 2021)

Thanks rnb_2. On their site they address the supply issue and give delivery ETAs.





An Update on Element Hub Availability – CalDigit







www.caldigit.com


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## Pier (Oct 18, 2021)

John Siracusa shared this on Twitter "Welcome to row two of this diagram"

(I've added the chip names in white)







I'm guessing row three will be for iMacs and row four for Mac Pros?


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## rnb_2 (Oct 18, 2021)

Pier said:


> John Siracusa shared this on Twitter "Welcome to row two of this diagram"
> 
> (I've added the chip names in white)
> 
> ...


I think three and four will both be for the Mac Pro, with the iMac getting M1 Pro/Max in the first half of next year.


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## Fox (Oct 18, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> You want the CalDigit Element Hub - hard to get because of supply chain issues, but it takes one Thunderbolt and splits it into 3 Thunderbolt and 4 USB-A.


Any other good options?


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## kevinh (Oct 18, 2021)

kevinh said:


> Buddy works at Apple. Because of chips shortage they are switching to pretzels.


Told ya. They went with pretzels instead of chips.


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## rnb_2 (Oct 18, 2021)

Fox said:


> Any other good options?


If you're just looking for multiple USB-A ports, there are several Thunderbolt docks that will do the trick, though they won't give you multiple Thunderbolt ports (you can only daisy-chain, but that's still pretty flexible). I have OWC's standard 14-port Thunderbolt 3 dock connected to my M1 MacBook Air (in clamshell mode), and it has 5 USB-A, 1 USB-C, SD and microSD, gigabit Ethernet, analog and digital audio, Mini DisplayPort, and 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports. I run Thunderbolt out of it to an external SSD, and then a USB-C display connected to that. The Air gets power from the dock, as well, all over the same cable as the data connection. I have my samples SSD connected to the second Thunderbolt port on the Air.

I have the Element Hub connected to my M1 Mac mini, effectively giving it 4 Thunderbolt ports (which I need for my primary use, which is photo import and editing) and 6 USB-A ports. I have other USB-A ports via my BenQ monitor and a 4-port hub, as well as a Thunderbolt enclosure that has a couple SSDs on PCIe cards inside. I also have an external SSD connected to the Element Hub via Thunderbolt that holds my photos and Lightroom libraries so that I can take that with me on the rare occasion that I travel these days.


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## Aussieyankee (Nov 13, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> If you're just looking for multiple USB-A ports, there are several Thunderbolt docks that will do the trick, though they won't give you multiple Thunderbolt ports (you can only daisy-chain, but that's still pretty flexible). I have OWC's standard 14-port Thunderbolt 3 dock connected to my M1 MacBook Air (in clamshell mode), and it has 5 USB-A, 1 USB-C, SD and microSD, gigabit Ethernet, analog and digital audio, Mini DisplayPort, and 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports. I run Thunderbolt out of it to an external SSD, and then a USB-C display connected to that. The Air gets power from the dock, as well, all over the same cable as the data connection. I have my samples SSD connected to the second Thunderbolt port on the Air.
> 
> I have the Element Hub connected to my M1 Mac mini, effectively giving it 4 Thunderbolt ports (which I need for my primary use, which is photo import and editing) and 6 USB-A ports. I have other USB-A ports via my BenQ monitor and a 4-port hub, as well as a Thunderbolt enclosure that has a couple SSDs on PCIe cards inside. I also have an external SSD connected to the Element Hub via Thunderbolt that holds my photos and Lightroom libraries so that I can take that with me on the rare occasion that I travel these days.


I didn’t think something like the Element would work with the mini or the air as they are not listed as thunderbolt 4, you have full functionality with yours?


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## Tronam (Nov 13, 2022)

Aussieyankee said:


> I didn’t think something like the Element would work with the mini or the air as they are not listed as thunderbolt 4, you have full functionality with yours?


The Element hub works equally well with TB3 as well. For Mac users the difference between Thunderbolt 3 and 4 is essentially nonexistent; They even have the same bandwidth. The distinction is mainly relevant for Windows PCs since TB4 standardized functionality that Mac has been enjoying since TB3. They probably should’ve called it TB 3.1, but I think they wanted the naming to align with USB 4 which is already confusing enough.


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## Aussieyankee (Nov 13, 2022)

Thanks. I had gotten the impression that the main difference between thunderbolt 3 and 4 was that 3 could only split into 2 thunderbolt connections, one of which had to connect to the computer, so basically for daisy chaining, but thunderbolt 4 could be split for 4 connections, but if you can use the element hub on thunderbolt 3 you can split that into 4 also?

(sorry if that was hard to follow, I’m not sure of the appropriate vocabulary on this subject)


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## rnb_2 (Nov 13, 2022)

Yes - the Element hub itself is Thunderbolt 4, and doesn’t care if it’s connected to a TB3 or TB4 port at the computer end (at least on a Mac; can’t speak for Windows).


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