# Why Soundonline forum banned me !!



## shakuman (May 15, 2010)

Hi.
Really strange what happened to me I owned 95% of east west products and today I wrote a thread about HS and microtuning..First thread has been removed and second thread I have benn banned!!waht is the reason ? who banned me ? it's illegal to be banned with no reason..below the thread I wrote in Soundonline forum any boday tell me what mistake I did ? I need some one from EastWest answer me.

Shakuman.


Hi.
My previous thread has been removed ! why I don't know..BTW I noticed there is no microtuning in HS which really disappinted me as a composer even my friends the reason we still stuck with LASS..I didn't buy HS even my friends due to this reason..Any chance to add microtuning in upcoming update ? just I need an answer if yes I will go for it..

Kind regards.

Shakuman.


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## dcoscina (May 15, 2010)

You should enquire with EW folks- we cannot know why they would do this. If you're looking for sympathy, well, I'm sorry you were banned. I honestly would try contacting Stefan or one of the mods and ask them what you said to lead to your banishment.


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## lux (May 15, 2010)

off topic section?


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## shakuman (May 15, 2010)

dcoscina @ Sat May 15 said:


> You should enquire with EW folks- we cannot know why they would do this. If you're looking for sympathy, well, I'm sorry you were banned. I honestly would try contacting Stefan or one of the mods and ask them what you said to lead to your banishment.



I know but the problem that I have been banned from access the forum and I know some guys from EastWest around here!

Shakuman.


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## Mike Connelly (May 15, 2010)

While it may be a bummer, it's hardly "illegal". It's their site and they can do whatever they want.


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## Dan Mott (May 15, 2010)

This place is much better. The admin over at EW annoyes the heck out of me. I pesonally think VI is full of a wide range of people, generally nice people.


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## Justus (May 15, 2010)

I guess your mistake was to mention LASS...


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## chimuelo (May 15, 2010)

:lol: LASS 'eh...
Moderators have the right to ban you anytime they want.
Its kind of rare I thought, like getting kicked out of a Las Vegas strip club while you still have cash in fist...
The developers have been in the biz too long to waste thier own time yakking with forum dwellers, so I would write one of them directly.
I am sure the assistant to the assistant who moderates or is putting in his lenghty " Composers Assistant " gig had a bad day, Talk to a higher authority.


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 15, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Sat May 15 said:


> While it may be a bummer, it's hardly "illegal". It's their site and they can do whatever they want.



don't be so sure. I could have sworn I heard of litigation recently where a banned forum member successfully sued the forum owners somehow... I could be wrong but I remember reading about something along these lines...


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## JohnG (May 15, 2010)

please. It's their forum, they can ban anyone they choose. What would your damages be?

Did they publicly libel or slander you, or threaten physical assault? Doesn't sound like it.

Suggest contacting them offline, as several others have also urged. Jay and Stefan have always been very helpful to me.


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## shakuman (May 15, 2010)

Justus @ Sat May 15 said:


> I guess your mistake was to mention LASS...



LASS! it doesn't make any sense..I said the truth My subject was about HS and microtuning for this reason I've been banned without a warning! I hope Nick Phoenix will read this.

Shakuman.


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## shakuman (May 15, 2010)

JohnG @ Sat May 15 said:


> please. It's their forum, they can ban anyone they choose. What would your damages be?
> 
> Did they publicly libel or slander you, or threaten physical assault? Doesn't sound like it.
> 
> Suggest contacting them offline, as several others have also urged. Jay and Stefan have always been very helpful to me.



You are right but they supose to inform me about my mistake before I became banned.

Shakuman.


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 15, 2010)

shakuman @ Sat May 15 said:


> Justus @ Sat May 15 said:
> 
> 
> > I guess your mistake was to mention LASS...
> ...


Nick Pheonix couldn't care less about your lowly proletariat plight. He's got a Lambo to tune, he's a busy man.


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## José Herring (May 15, 2010)

My guess would be that you advertised a competing product on their forum.

But, I wouldn't take it personally. It's just all business to EW.


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## midphase (May 15, 2010)

"My question should be answered by yes or no before I spend $$$$ for something I might not use without microtuning. "

First of all, I was under the impression that PLAY 2.0 supports microtuning.

Secondly...if you feel your question is not being answered, don't buy the product...simple as that. 

Remember this folks...the corporations and politicians have pulled off an incredible trick by making the world believe that they are in charge....but make no mistake, the most powerful element of our society is the consumer. What's in your wallet is the ultimate decider. You can choose to purchase something, but you can also choose not to.

Not to throw too much of this off topic, but Arizona is currently undergoing a tourism boycott. I've cancelled plans for a trip to the Grand Canyon in July for this specific reason. If the boycott (i.e. from consumers) is widespread enough, then the laws will be changed. Watch and learn, then apply it to your everyday life (starting by not going to see really bad Hollywood films).


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 15, 2010)

midphase @ Sat May 15 said:


> "My question should be answered by yes or no before I spend $$$$ for something I might not use without microtuning. "
> 
> First of all, I was under the impression that PLAY 2.0 supports microtuning.
> 
> ...



california is under a counter-boycott as a riposte against the boycott the Terminator launched against AZ. I just found that funny. 

Anyways you're right about what you said up there, we are the consumers and have the power, just don't purchase their damn product. 

Often when libraries are very even in the way that LASS and HS are in their sound, the ultimate decision to purchase something comes down to which developers you like more and let's be honest Andrew Keresztes is a far more amiable and affable individual than the infamously pompous Doug Rogers and the bi-polar/eccentric Nick Phoenix (I love Nick though! :mrgreen: )

o-[][]-o


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## shakuman (May 15, 2010)

josejherring @ Sat May 15 said:


> My guess would be that you advertised a competing product on their forum.
> 
> But, I wouldn't take it personally. It's just all business to EW.



If LASS was the problem I am really disòÄ   ÑÛ{Ä   ÑÛ|Ä   ÑÛ}Ä


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## José Herring (May 15, 2010)

shakuman @ Sat May 15 said:


> josejherring @ Sat May 15 said:
> 
> 
> > My guess would be that you advertised a competing product on their forum.
> ...



They have very, very strict rules about mentioning other products on their forum.

I've met both Doug and Nick personally and they are both extremely decent people. I've always had a tremendous respect for those guys. They take what they do very personally and I think it's why they are the biggest and imo the best at what they do. I don't post on their forum because often to figure something out I get critical of this or that in an effort to better understand products and how to use them. I'm also intrinsically opposed to samples on a human level so often my "comments" come out harsh. In all truth I realized a long time ago that EW forum wasn't the place for my style of comments and though they didn't ban me back then I did get a few post deleted and removed over some comments I made about Play.

But, in the end I didn't take it personally and I would suggest just continuing to enjoy their products and not get into the nitty gritty petty upsets of life on a computer based forum. o-[][]-o


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## gsilbers (May 15, 2010)

seems those guys will develop health problems if they keep being so defensive and bothered by online folks opinions  

i say take it easy and let the market take its natural evolution. just give the facts and if its a good product consumers will realize it. And HS seems its a great product. 
just take spectrum for example, he argues the facts because he knows them inside out. there where tons of threads at gearslutz of guys who didnt like the product one for reason or another but he only argued when they posted something that was not factual, like for example "there is no pianos in this library" as suppose to arguing "this pianos suck i like X better", which is a personal opinion and therefore if there anything he can learn he would of not he let it go. and there where still 4 other posts replying saying the opposite opinion and they like the piano better than X. 
Or explaining the reason for going a certain direction with their products which if it was thought out good and its explain well, then its hard to argue. 
EW do put out good music and good products and i bet they are very nice guys but in this respect its a different matter, a very small one in their business practices, so small i dont even know why i wrote so much


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (May 15, 2010)

> They take what they do very personally and I think it's why they are the biggest and imo the best at what they do.



Yes, but it's a very defensive stance and overall makes them look not as confident.

OP: Did you post that in the General Forum? See if your post was actually moved, not deleted.

And did you ACTUALLY get banned, or are you assuming that because they deleted a post. Usually there is a ban reason posted, what was it?


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## madbulk (May 15, 2010)

Yawn. Don't ask other forums to be like this one. This one exists to be unlike the others. 
And as Jose intimated, don't judge the other guys personally for what they do to promote and protect their business. You may disagree, but if I had a stake in EW, I'd be on board with their censorship without reservation.


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## shakuman (May 15, 2010)

Thanks guys for your response..What I am looking for, some one from EW is show me my mistake ?

Shakuman.


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 15, 2010)

shakuman @ Sat May 15 said:


> Thanks guys for your response..What I am looking for some one from EW is show me my mistake ?
> 
> Shakuman.


 your mistake was to become a member of EW forum. It's one of the most infamous forums on the internet for intolerance and undeserved banning.


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 15, 2010)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sat May 15 said:


> requiem_aeternam7 @ 15/5/2010 said:
> 
> 
> > ... your mistake was to become a member of EW forum. It's one of the most infamous forums on the internet for intolerance and undeserved banning.
> ...



haha........very good. yes considering this entire forum (vi control) is comprised of refugees and exiles from there, that indeed makes it the worst most ban-happy forum in existence. The moderators there seriously must have Gestapo handbooks on conduct ...but EW forums are a close second >8o :mrgreen:


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 15, 2010)

and I should mention the opposite end of the spectrum is VSL forums. I don't think anyone has ever been banned there and I heard some pretty bad stuff there and yet they must have as a rule, no banning allowed... that rule is almost as bad as too much banning because the biggest trolls have free reign to cause havoc and call people the worst names and yet no action is taken.


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## madbulk (May 15, 2010)

Yeah Ned, but comparatively...

It's EW's website. You don't go on Letterman and say "NBC" over and over. It's rude. You're a guest there.
We're guests here.
The EW forum is somewhere between service and promotional arm. But at any rate you're a guest there. Don't like the house rules? Tough tarts.

NS is more judgement worthy. Back in the day, they evolved slowly, my recollection, toward being beholden to a few developers and weren't so upfront about it. And we migrated.

In both cases, fool me twice, shame on me. 

Your mistake was to become and member of the EW forum and forget where you were.


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## synergy543 (May 15, 2010)

requiem_aeternam7 @ Sat May 15 said:


> and I should mention the opposite end of the spectrum is VSL forums. I don't think anyone has ever been banned there....



Dude, if you knew your forums as well as your pop music google stats, you'd know that none other than Evan Evans (son of Bill Evans) was booted from the VSL forum.


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## madbulk (May 15, 2010)

Sorry, I shouldn't be yawning on the one hand and prolonging this on the other.


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 15, 2010)

madbulk @ Sat May 15 said:


> Sorry, I shouldn't be yawning on the one hand and prolonging this on the other.



human nature tends to the contradictory, don't fight it... just accept our human frailties. o-[][]-o


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## choc0thrax (May 15, 2010)

synergy543 @ Sat May 15 said:


> requiem_aeternam7 @ Sat May 15 said:
> 
> 
> > and I should mention the opposite end of the spectrum is VSL forums. I don't think anyone has ever been banned there....
> ...



Haha. I haven't been on VSL forums in years but I remember how awful that Evan Evans douche was.


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 15, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Sat May 15 said:


> synergy543 @ Sat May 15 said:
> 
> 
> > requiem_aeternam7 @ Sat May 15 said:
> ...



I never even saw him on VSL forums... just from my own personal interactions with him and reading his pompous blogs/websites I could tell what sort of character he had


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## madbulk (May 15, 2010)

I retract my apology. This took a nice turn.


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## nikolas (May 15, 2010)

guys,

Honestly if you think that SOL is an awfully moderated forum... You've not seen anything! Really... get real! :D SOL is a privately funded forum by a single company, of course they are not tollerant to certain things, but this doesn't mean they are evil or anything...


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 15, 2010)

nikolas @ Sat May 15 said:


> guys,
> 
> Honestly if you think that SOL is an awfully moderated forum... You've not seen anything! Really... get real! :D SOL is a privately funded forum by a single company, of course they are not tollerant to certain things, but this doesn't mean they are evil or anything...



I dunno it's just I hear nothing but horror stories about it. In the past few months on here alone I've seen like half a dozen complaints about being banned over there just by bringing up PLAY issues and such...


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## nikolas (May 15, 2010)

I don't know how much you "know" me but considering I am a mod here (with the lovely trust of Fred) and have more than 2000 posts in SOL and NSS, I'd say that I'm rather tender speaking in all accounts.

Well I've been banned once in my lifetime in a forum about adventure games! And all that while I was working on one and was speaking about the game (already released) there. And I was moderated in a piano related forum, when I decided to offer a link to audio and score of a piece I wrote called "my fucking life" (I know that fucking is censored automatically here). My post was deleted with a warning. Despite the fact that it was the link to the audio file only, and everything else was named mfl and there was a warning about the naming already. Rules are rules, they said, and they are right! But it's a name for a piece of art, a piece of music! Not profanity for the shake of it.

Anyways, my experiences in the various non musical forums are rather... yikes, I have to say! 

Plus the horror stories seem to be coming from the same members pretty much (not shakuman). Dan Jay has been constantly complaining about SOL, for reasons I won't go into, same as Reauso (sp?) for other reasons I won't go into. NSS banned a bunch of people back in the 'old days', but somehow this seems to be forgotten now! :D


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## Guy Bacos (May 15, 2010)

requiem_aeternam7 @ Sat May 15 said:


> choc0thrax @ Sat May 15 said:
> 
> 
> > synergy543 @ Sat May 15 said:
> ...



The reason Evan Evans was banned from VSL forum is that he was trying to tell them how to run the company. I'm sure the manner had a lot to do with it.

I've worked with Evan on a feature film, he's a very nice guy, but I do remember some things he said on VSL that created a stir.


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## Narval (May 15, 2010)

Shakuman, everyone deserves a fair treatment. If you think they have banned you undeservedly, then me thinks it would be just fair that you ban them in return.

Don't quote me on this, but I've heard somewhere that, when asked what's their opinion about an alleged campaign underway in Detroit to ban the Beatles, McCartney said something like, no prob, we're gonna start our own campaign to ban Detroit. :D 

Ban ban! /\~O


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## Frederick Russ (May 15, 2010)

I've said this before but it bears repeating:

Soundsonline has a product specific forum built to focus upon their products. VI is not tied to any specific product so there is a difference. Understanding that difference versus refusing to understand it is probably at the root of your suspended status there - just guessing. They're generally fairly reasonable if you can convince them you'll stop posting about other products (thereby promoting those foreign products regardless whether you intended to or not) on a forum they built to promote their own products. 

That said, at VI you can talk about any product you want - we're not a specific product based forum like EW. There's room in the world for both.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (May 15, 2010)

requiem_aeternam7 @ Sat May 15 said:


> and I should mention the opposite end of the spectrum is VSL forums. I don't think anyone has ever been banned there and I heard some pretty bad stuff there and yet they must have as a rule, no banning allowed... that rule is almost as bad as too much banning because the biggest trolls have free reign to cause havoc and call people the worst names and yet no action is taken.



I have never seen that happen on the VSL forum.


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 15, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Sat May 15 said:


> requiem_aeternam7 @ Sat May 15 said:
> 
> 
> > choc0thrax @ Sat May 15 said:
> ...



Holy crap..Guy I've never seen you explode on someone before even when trolled constantly by some of the guys here but out of curiosity after reading this thread I looked up Evan's posts on VSL and I saw Guy* lose his cool real bad :lol: :lol: :lol: 

"Shut the [email protected]#$# up!" and such...was really awesome I'm proud of you Guy because he really deserved it by saying that "All VSL demos are inferior" etc WTf?? Why does that guy think he's so much smarter and better than everyone. 

*(p.s. at least I'm assuming that's the same Guy....)


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 15, 2010)

nikolas @ Sat May 15 said:


> I don't know how much you "know" me but considering I am a mod here (with the lovely trust of Fred) and have more than 2000 posts in SOL and NSS, I'd say that I'm rather tender speaking in all accounts.
> 
> Well I've been banned once in my lifetime in a forum about adventure games! And all that while I was working on one and was speaking about the game (already released) there. And I was moderated in a piano related forum, when I decided to offer a link to audio and score of a piece I wrote called "my fucking life" (I know that fucking is censored automatically here). My post was deleted with a warning. Despite the fact that it was the link to the audio file only, and everything else was named mfl and there was a warning about the naming already. Rules are rules, they said, and they are right! But it's a name for a piece of art, a piece of music! Not profanity for the shake of it.
> 
> ...




Hey man are you the same guy from youngcomposer forum? Aren't you the moderator there too? No offense but I remember you being a huge a-hole there but it's strange because here so far you're one of the nicest posters I've seen. Either it's a different guy or you've had a life re-affirming transformation in the past few years (I haven't been to YC in a few years...)

If that IS you, I'm proud of your improving attitude! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 15, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Sat May 15 said:


> requiem_aeternam7 @ Sat May 15 said:
> 
> 
> > and I should mention the opposite end of the spectrum is VSL forums. I don't think anyone has ever been banned there and I heard some pretty bad stuff there and yet they must have as a rule, no banning allowed... that rule is almost as bad as too much banning because the biggest trolls have free reign to cause havoc and call people the worst names and yet no action is taken.
> ...



Did you not ever read some of the most truculent posts by William and Paul and some of the others? I've literally seen people threatened over there and no moderator or anyone ever even came on to say "Calm down guys" or "cool it" or ban anyone...nothing. Worst I've seen is someone threatened to close the thread and that's it.... but not hold anyone responsible for the actions leading to the closure of that thread... WTF???

It's like an anarchy society over there...kinda cool on paper but doesn't work too well in practice. >8o


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## nikolas (May 15, 2010)

requiem_aeternam7 @ Sun May 16 said:


> Hey man are you the same guy from youngcomposer forum? Aren't you the moderator there too? No offense but I remember you being a huge a-hole there but it's strange because here so far you're one of the nicest posters I've seen. Either it's a different guy or you've had a life re-affirming transformation in the past few years (I haven't been to YC in a few years...)
> 
> If that IS you, I'm proud of your improving attitude! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


I am the same guy from YC, but I'm not sure I was an a-hole there... Could it be you're confusing me with another mod? (QcCowboy?). I really fail to remember ever being an a-hole... :roll:


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## Guy Bacos (May 15, 2010)

requiem_aeternam7 @ Sun May 16 said:


> Holy crap..Guy I've never seen you explode on someone before even when trolled constantly by some of the guys here but out of curiosity after reading this thread I looked up Evan's posts on VSL and I saw Guy* lose his cool real bad :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> "Shut the [email protected]#$# up!" and such...was really awesome I'm proud of you Guy because he really deserved it by saying that "All VSL demos are inferior" etc WTf?? Why does that guy think he's so much smarter and better than everyone.
> 
> *(p.s. at least I'm assuming that's the same Guy....)



Wow! I don't even remember that, better I don't. Early on I had some differences with one guy on VSL and we butt heads for a while, but not now very good friends. With Evan we had one fight but we became good friends as well after that. Those damn records! :D


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## synergy543 (May 15, 2010)

Do you remember theheresy troll? 
Well, he's back...(those damn records!)

http://mmorpgmaker.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8106

theheresy wrote:
".....Anyways, my personal site is currently under construction and as such I don't have a demo reel available yet but email me at [email protected]"


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## nikolas (May 15, 2010)

It's a coincidence! Come on! :D LOL!... Good find there mate!


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## Synesthesia (May 16, 2010)

synergy543 @ Sun May 16 said:


> Do you remember theheresy troll?
> Well, he's back...(those damn records!)
> 
> http://mmorpgmaker.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8106
> ...



Of course.

It would be nice if there was some way to prevent people posting under multiple aliases. Although I do wonder if those people should maybe get a life, take a walk outside and spend less time sh*t stirring for no reason. Very sad.

Paul


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## shakuman (May 16, 2010)

Guys..Toledoo1 is a member in NOL forum and he mentiond about microtuning and LASS but he never get banned!!
http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/show ... light=LASS


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## requiem_aeternam7 (May 16, 2010)

synergy543 @ Sat May 15 said:


> Do you remember theheresy troll?
> Well, he's back...(those damn records!)
> 
> http://mmorpgmaker.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8106
> ...



why are you acting like it's a secret alias? It's not I believe I've already stated I came back because something happened to my previous account and I couldn't log in to tell site admins about it. It was saying I have to verify my account email but for some reason I wasn't able to properly do it (verify the email) not sure why but I couldn't be bothered with it so had no choice but to make a new account


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## snowleopard (May 16, 2010)

Some amusing posts, requiem_aeternam7. :D 

I too have I think 6 EWQL lib's, and bought several of Nick's old QL libraries on Akai disk from the day, and I have to say I rarely go over there. Too thin of skin and too heavy of a hand on everything. Bugs me because Nick seems like a nice guy, and is a very, very good musician, but he's rarely around. Must be out driving that Lambo. :lol:


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## Mike Connelly (May 18, 2010)

I have to agree about the Vienna forum, I have seen some really horrible stuff there recently, and they are really slow to shut that stuff down. Some personal attacks that were just nasty, nothing like I've seen on a website for a music product.

Recently, there was a whole thread ranting about how HWW is some sort of "auto compose" tool that can let any hack hit one key and get a John Williams score. Really ignorant and uninformed, just ranting about something without having any of the facts. Their policy is supposed to be no discussion of other products, but they let the bashing go on for a long time. I thought it was pretty tacky.

In the case of EW, I know they can do what they want, but my big objection is the cases where they have made promises about their products and not delivered, and then deleted any discussion of it and banned people who bring it up. The biggest example that comes to mind is when they advertised the original Storm Drum (and a couple other products) with the promise of a free upgrade to the PLAY version when it was ready ("PURCHASE WITH CONFIDENCE!"). It's bad enough that they changed their mind and it never happened, but they refused to even give a discount on SD2 to SD1 owners and even insisted that they never promised that in the first place (even though there are still google archives of a number of sites selling it that still show it), deleting some old SO threads that talked about it. I understand companies taking down posts bashing their products or promoting other ones, but I have no tolerance for being dishonest to customers. There's no reason for it, and any decent company should want to make good on their mistakes and be honest about how they handle things.

And I thought Doug was the Lambo guy...do they both have one?


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## reid (Jul 9, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ 18th May said:


> And I thought Doug was the Lambo guy...do they both have one?




I think he's got a Ferrari now; poor Doug just couldn't get the Lambo to do what the company said it would - if you've got a taste for low brow irony, go to this thread and click on the link in post #730071 from 'reid'
http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/s...oug+rogers+reid&topic=&Search=true#Post730071


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## synergy543 (Jul 9, 2010)

Reid said:


> The knockout line comes at the end of Doug's post on 7th May 2004 - the irony contained within this link is breathtaking......
> 
> Dontcha just hate it when companies sell things that don't work?


 /\~O 


Reid, you're quite the sleuth - the irony is too funny!


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## noiseboyuk (Jul 9, 2010)

I totally missed this thread first time round! Shakuman - did you ever get this resolved?

FWIW I reserve all my vitriol for the Northern forum. It has a pretence at being independent, but it isn't, and that's what really rankles. Just type the world PETTINHOUSE into a post there and see what happens. Just extraordinary. It's actually quite sinister imho... it's clearly all about who pays to get promoted. I've no problem with that if it is transparent, but it most certainly is not at NS.

Soundsonline - yeah, that's an EWQL forum so clearly different rules apply. I don't like it if people are banned for reporting faults, but I THINK that's a thing of the past. IMHO they'd do themselves more favours by being more open, but it's their call with mentioning other products of course. I do think they should contact the banned poster to explain why of course (and in an ideal world just issue a warning for a first offence) - it isn't always obvious what rule has been broken, especially to Newbies, and it is common courtesy.


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## clarkcontrol (Jul 9, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Sat May 15 said:


> Wow! I don't even remember that, better I don't. Early on I had some differences with one guy on VSL and we butt heads for a while, but not now very good friends. With Evan we had one fight but we became good friends as well after that. Those damn records! :D




I remember!

You and I even PM'ed about it afterward and you said "who is this punk" and I mentioned that Evan had set up all those keyswitch multis for the Pro Ed in EXS, even setting up a website for people to exchange multis. 

He had a strange way of showing his loyalty to VSL but he certainly was trying. Like with the multis I mentioned and he invented the trick of running two instances of Logic simultaneously by naming logic something else then installing it again and launching them both...

Yeah he was a real d!ck. The problem was you met him when we was on his period. Because as you know he can be cool once you know him. I got off on the right foot with him because my piano teacher studied with his dad. 


Clark


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## reid (Jul 9, 2010)

synergy543 @ 9th July said:


> Reid said:
> 
> 
> > The knockout line comes at the end of Doug's post on 7th May 2004 - the irony contained within this link is breathtaking......
> ...




Now, if he'd bought a Skoda in the first place, he just wouldn't have had those problems. Or maybe a pushbike?..... :mrgreen:


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## Animus (Jul 9, 2010)

Did you guys catch that thread where certain shills were outed at Gearslutz and Soundsonline recently? it was quite hilarious.


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## Guy Bacos (Jul 9, 2010)

clarkcontrol @ Fri Jul 09 said:


> Guy Bacos @ Sat May 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow! I don't even remember that, better I don't. Early on I had some differences with one guy on VSL and we butt heads for a while, but not now very good friends. With Evan we had one fight but we became good friends as well after that. Those damn records! :D
> ...



Oh really? I forgot that we PM each other about Evan. That's it, it's Alzheimer!!!


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## EnTaroAdun (Jul 9, 2010)

Banning someone out of a forum without any explanation just for mentioning a product of the competition is pretty pathetic.


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## chimuelo (Jul 9, 2010)

Since everything is so virtual these days, perhaps in the future we could reach through the LCD and slap some faces.
That would be cool, but I gig 6 nights a week and need to protect my fingers.
At the end of the day, one could always start his own forum, its pretty easy.
I belong to a private forum of DSP developers and enthusiasts that requires proof of purchase to join and there's no holds barred.
We don't have to worry about posing since we don't sell anything, we trade babe pictures, and can curse as much as we want.
Its really quite fun.
On occassion we invite someone over there just to bash them around for being a jerk on the main forum, then we enjoy banning them after a severe thrashing.
The angry man here has his reasons I suppose, so he could gather anti EastWest customers from here and have a party....


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## reid (Jul 10, 2010)

Animus @ 10th July said:


> Did you guys catch that thread where certain shills were outed at Gearslutz and Soundsonline recently? it was quite hilarious.



I only saw the thread at Gearslutz - was there also one at Soundsonline forum? Funny as hell, and quite shameless too - that employee from EW just got caught in the headlights and froze 

Not a good advert for the company, and really makes you wonder how low they're willing to stoop to get ahead.


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## Synesthesia (Jul 10, 2010)

Link?


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## NYC Composer (Jul 10, 2010)

I don't bother with the SOL forum. I own umpteen of their libraries, but the absolute denial of the original Play problems defied reason and any semblance of customer support.
I would lurk but I said very little, mostly just watched in amazement. Great products, inability to admit mistakes. Odd.

When I first came here, I had just been banned from the Garrit...ummm...I mean...the Northern Sounds forum. I ranted about it for a few weeks. I had been an active member for a while, but the party line became impossible to toe.

I've said it a few times now, but to reiterate, we are lucky to have V.I. This place rocks.

o-[][]-o


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## reid (Jul 10, 2010)

I don't fekin believe it..... just went over to Gearslutz to find the thread, and it looks like they've deleted it.

In a nutshell, it was a 2 year old thread bemoaning PLAY's lack of usability. Someone brought the thread back to life asking about PLAY's current form - Doug Rogers popped up and answered a few questions, offered some opinions, then a poster slated the standard of EW's customer helpline, implied that he'd been told to take a hike with his problems. Bunch of new posters with very low or zero post counts suddenly spring up on the thread, singing the praises of EW, their products and the reliability of PLAY. Was already starting to smell fishy, when a longtime GS member downloaded the vCard of one of the apparent shills, from the GS member profile page.

Turns out from his contact details that this guy is an EW management employee..... there for everyone to see, plain as daylight :shock: 

He tried to bluff his way out, but bottled it. Strangely, D. Rogers and all the other shills went strangely quiet on the thread after that.

Guess EW put pressure on Jules at GS to yank the thread.

_ Just seen that the thread is deleted 'Pending investigation' as of 20th June in the Music Computers forum. Guess that's the last we'll see of it....'[/i:fa0de1267ò_


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## Ashermusic (Jul 10, 2010)

As one of the folks who participated in that thread. I said that the two libraries of EW that I have, SD2 and Silk are working fin e in Logic Pro 9.1.1 with 10.6.4. and they are.

I also said that if you are using a lot of Kontakt you need to load the Play stuff first as Kontakt hogs the memory, which is also true.

And I also said that if you try to run the really big libraries and you have the minimum requirements, you should expect to load a relatively minimal amount, which should be obvious but apparently is not to some folks.

Yes, Jonathan made a bonehead move and predictably got caught so he is guilty of being an over-zealous employee, not evil.

In the times I have needed their tech support I have found them to be far more helpful than many others.

And yes, their customer relation skills need a lot of work. Doug is extremely rough around the edges and Nick gets upset and pops a cork sometimes but EW makes great sounding, cutting edge libraries and if you like them, have the money and the rig horsepower, there is IMHO no reason not to buy their products.

Finally, my guess is that Jules shut down that thread because to continue to host it with some of the borderline libelous statements going on made GS vulnerable to legal action. Interestingly, the OP came on at one point and said EW's tech support solved most of his issues a year ago.


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## JohnG (Jul 10, 2010)

My experience has been similar to Jay's. EW products sound great. When I've gotten stuck, their customer support has been better than most.

I have not experienced significant problems with PLAY on Mac, 32 bit PC, or 64 bit PC. Don't use Logic, but of course Jay does.

I saw some of the posts regarding microtuning on Soundsonline. It wasn't just "mentioning" it -- it was banging on and on about it in many different threads and more or less ignoring it when someone said, "no, it doesn't do that." And banging on and bemoaning the answer.

This is how I read it. Relentless repetition; sincere, but relentless.

I like microtuning too and use it in Omnisphere, which has tons of it, and use the odd scales in SILK, so I'm sympathetic. But a product either has a feature or it doesn't.


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## kid-surf (Jul 10, 2010)

Yuk...

I find EW's strong-arming to be flatly...pathetic and insecure. And this Lambo business. As if you can't get your Lambo without being an asshole to your customers, paranoid and employing shills. The whole thing is way too tacky for me to support in any regard.

Thus, if my TV show 'goes', and it's looking good thus far, I will >>>*BAN*<<< the use of EW products in the scoring of my show. Period. Not that EW cares, neither do I. But it will be known [amongst composers] that my show uses *no* EW samples.

...Also because Doug talked down to me years ago at NAMM, like I was some idiot [who wouldn't one day run my own TV show and therefore decide whether or not to showcase his product].

And I'll still be able to afford a Lambo all the same...I'll just look sexier in mine.

Cheers,

KID


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## NYC Composer (Jul 10, 2010)

JohnG @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> My experience has been similar to Jay's. EW products sound great. When I've gotten stuck, their customer support has been better than most.
> 
> I have not experienced significant problems with PLAY on Mac, 32 bit PC, or 64 bit PC. Don't use Logic, but of course Jay does.
> 
> ...



I want to get really specific here. John, did you use any Play products previous to the release of 1.2.5 software? If so,were you happy with the performance of Play?

If so, you would be the first I've ever heard of, and EW steadfastly refused to admit to deep performance problems with Play software. They actually went to the point of blaming the problems on their customers' technical prowess, full well knowing the product was flawed. Nick was doing demos using 8 computers!!

If you'll see my comment above, I agree that they make great sounding products, but man. Stonewalling your customers and flat out dissembling is a lousy, alienating way to do business....and then getting all sensitive when called on it?? There must have been some Erhardt Seminar Training in there somewhere.

I've been a defender of EW since 1.2.5, insofar as I try to let people know that Play now works reasonably well. However, though I own a plethora of EW products , I'm hesitant to consider new purchases because I believe in companies taking responsibility for their missteps, and they never have done. To this day, I think they would be well served corporately by releasing a statement about the Play debacle, to the effect of 'Yes, we acknowledge mistakes were made, and we pledge never to go down that road again. You will find us more transparent and honest in our released statements henceforth'.

Needless to say, I'm not holding my breath. 

(P.S.- I don't care who buys an expensive car or home or a giant stash of crack, they work hard, they make money, this is America, bully for them.)


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## José Herring (Jul 10, 2010)

Play was the first software that EW released. I honestly think they just got caught like a dear in headlights and didn't know how to release the software properly or how to deal with the complaints once released.

I actually thought that their latest release, HS, was totally cool. They were totally upfront and did a lot of research, revised Play, and then were totally upfront again by saying that you're going to need a killer highend system to run it properly. This last release went with hardly any complaints. At least no complaints that I'm aware of.

The first time I ever even became aware of Nick he was yelling at me at Northern Sounds off topic section. I was like, wtf? who is this guy? Then I realized he was the creator of the product I just bought. :lol: But on the other hand, Nick and Dough couldn't have been cooler in seeing me through what to them was probably some pretty obvious newbie problems (e.i., trying to run all of EWQLSO Gold on a 1ghz AMD machine with 750megs of ram :roll: , yes, I was that green)

So I formed an opinion of them both back then. Basically nice guys with a bit of a temper, rich as hell and trying like hell to not let that effect them, though it's hard no to. (When you can affor $145,000 dollar speakers it's tough not to look on somebody that's having a hard time coming up with $350 for SD2 as kind of not doing so well in life.)

I know there were a lot of frustrations with Play. I was one of those guys that was frustrated, but at some point we just all need to get over that. Play is good now. Maybe it's not Kontakt good but how long did it take Kontakt to get as good as it is. One thing for certain and that is that Play in it's current form is waaaayyyyy more stable than I was ever able to get Gigastudio( disclaimer, I know that there are guys that had giga rockin', I was just not one of them.) Did I blame giga for instability issues. Maybe at first, but then I found out that a lot of other good people were working fine with giga. So then I came to the conclusion that Giga was a great program just not on my systems. I think people should come to the same conclusions with Play.

This has been a long winded way of saying, GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!


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## kid-surf (Jul 10, 2010)

> (P.S.- I don't care who buys an expensive car or home or a giant stash of crack, they work hard, they make money, this is America, bully for them.)



Me neither...not why I'm banning their products. In fact when I buy my Lambo I'll mostly drive the Escalade, or Porsche, or skateboard. Cuz that's how I rollz. Just knowing I own a Lambo will be enough cat nip to feed my enormous ego(s), mine and my cock's, who wants to actually 'drive' a car that gay when you have a big dick?

Go America! o-[][]-o


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## NYC Composer (Jul 10, 2010)

josejherring @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> This has been a long winded way of saying, GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!



As this seems to have been addressed to me, which part should I get over, which part of what I said was untrue, and in what way would their releasing a mea culpa statement about having handled things badly be a bad thing?

and btw, did you miss the bit where I said I own many Play instruments (8 to be exact) , that Play has been okay since 1.2.5 and that I've tried to let people know?


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## José Herring (Jul 10, 2010)

NYC Composer @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> josejherring @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> > This has been a long winded way of saying, GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!
> ...



No bro. I'm not singling you out. Just people in general who are complaining about a software that's going on 3 years old. At this point it's clear that one should either embrace Play or not use it.

Seems like you embraced it so why worry about what happened 3 years ago? To me it's kind of like complaining about Microsoft releasing Windows Vista.


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## noiseboyuk (Jul 11, 2010)

josejherring @ Sun Jul 11 said:


> No bro. I'm not singling you out. Just people in general who are complaining about a software that's going on 3 years old. At this point it's clear that one should either embrace Play or not use it.
> 
> Seems like you embraced it so why worry about what happened 3 years ago? To me it's kind of like complaining about Microsoft releasing Windows Vista.



I think it's still vaild. Nothing about ethos of the company has changed, and for some people this is a major issue. I totally agree that EWQL should have been - and should be - more open about their mistakes and problems. One ongoing issue for me is the advertised and promised integration of Symphonic Choirs and Wordbuilder, now I think over a year overdue with no end in sight. There's never a "sorry, guys, bear with us". The lack of that tone in their communication is, I think, a great shame. So the Play issue isn't merely historical and / or isolated.

Their products sound great, they are great value, and their tech support is usually very good (though often my issues are not resolvable, it seems). But there is a downside to EWQL - how much it matters to people will, of course, vary.


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## Mike Connelly (Jul 12, 2010)

josejherring @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> At this point it's clear that one should either embrace Play or not use it.



Not using it isn't much of an option for people who own libraries that only run on it.

No question that PLAY is better than it used to be (although it still doesn't seem as stable or feature complete as Kontakt), but the way they have handled things over the years makes it hard to trust what is said about the products.

Here's a recent example of EW's attitude about PLAY - when users made requests for improvements in PLAY, one was to have numeric display of all values. EW's response was that it would be in the paid upgrade to PLAY Pro (whenever that is released, and who knows what it will cost). Come on.


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