# Do not make the same mistakes i did!



## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

Dramatic title yes but seriously, read this if you are a young musician/composer.

This is what I should be at my age: (62, i started music when i was 6)

A concert pianist (as in playing ability)
A world class guitarist (As in playing ability)
Famous Edit: In the music business

This is what I am not:
A concert pianist
A world class guitarist
Famous Edit: In the music business

This is why. Looking back at my musical life, I made some really bad choices.
This will be long but I will put it here as I don’t want people to make these bad choices because you WILL regret it in later life.

So it all started when I was six years old. My brother was having classical piano lessons. The teacher would come to our house every week. My parents asked me if I wanted to have piano lessons too and cos I thought my brother was cool, I said yes. Now that was the first ‘best choice of my life’ I made, even though I was only six lol.
So I started. Lessons, practice every day, lessons, practice every day and so on.

I think I got to grade 2 but can’t fully remember. I remember going to be graded in Crouch End North London.
I was doing well, piano and theory.
When I got to the age of twelve, I heard Led Zeppelin and that hit me like a ton of bricks. I told my parents that I want to stop the piano but I will learn the guitar instead. Reluctantly they agreed. Huge mistake No1.
I had one guitar lesson and as it was Spanish guitar, I didn’t like it, I wanted to be Jimmy Page so I said to them, I will teach myself.
Ok, that wasn’t too bad. Every day, I would rush home from school and play my guitar for hours at a time. I loved it, playing along to all my records, getting books on chords and learning how to stand in front of a big mirror lol.

When I got to 21, I decided I wanted to play keyboards again but under my own steam.
I sold my guitar that I saved up £600 to buy (top of the range Yamamha SG2000 Santana’s guitar)
and lost a lot from that sale but I bought a pidley little keyboard.
Selling that guitar, huge mistake No2.

By now, my taste in music had widened. So I was playing classical, rock, blues and some pop.
If you saw my little video clip of me playin a part of a Gavotte, I got to a point where I could learn and play things like that so I was progressing pretty well on the keyboard.I forgot most of the theory I had learnt but I could still read music to a certain degree and learn that way.
I also had a good ear for listening to classical piano pieces like Moonlight Sonata, and learning them by heart just by listening to them.

So now we hit the 90’s. In 91 I got married and the first thing we bought was a computer.
I used to record all my music on a double cassette over dubing each part, then I used a 4trk recorder but everything I recorded was ‘Live’.

Now the computer was great and I got into midi and I got Cakewalk.
Huge mistake No3. I stopped recording ‘Live’ and I started step recording. With midi it was so easy plus I could compose things that where way above my playing ability.
Specially when I got into Trance as everything I wrote I programmed in.

I didn’t touch a guitar for at least 15 years and I didn’t physically play my keyboards anymore, I just programmed music through Cakewalk.
That was huge mistake No4.

Huge mistake No5 was, thought the 80’s 90’s and early to mid 20’s, I was sending out demos to all the major labels and game devs. I came so close on so many occasions but it always when wrong. The huge mistake No5. was I gave up trying. I pushed and pushed and it got me down so I stopped.

If I could go back to when I was twelve, I now know exactly how I would pan my life out but you never learn until it’s too late.

These are all the mistakes I made that you shouldn’t. Specially if you are just starting out. Push yourself but don’t stop.

I hope I didn’t bore you too much but I just wanted to get this out.


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## tav.one (Jul 13, 2020)

I read it all, thanks. A good reminder to never quit the good things you start.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

tav.one said:


> I read it all, thanks. A good reminder to never quit the good things you start.


I didn't have the internet in them days, no one to point these things out.
I just went through life thinking i knew it all till it was too late.
We live and learn


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## Rob (Jul 13, 2020)

nice post... when you got to " So now we hit the 90’s. In 91 I got married"... I thought you were about to say "huge mistake n3" 
being the same age as you are, I can relate...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

Rob said:


> nice post... when you got to " So now we hit the 90’s. In 91 I got married"... I thought you were about to say "huge mistake n3"
> being the same age as you are, I can relate...


It was a huge mistake, we where divorced 7 years later  

Nah i did enjoy being married and we wrer the best of friends too. It just didn't work out in the end.


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## Glen Brown (Jul 13, 2020)

Thanks for sharing, Keith, very interesting to hear your story.

What I'd like to ask you, and anyone reading this thinking they somehow messed up / missed out in life is - why are those objectives important to you? Why, at your age do you need to be a Concert Pianist, world-class guitarist or famous in order to feel validated? These are all arbitrary, self-assigned and in my opinion, unreasonably high expectations of oneself.

Believe me, I am guilty of this myself. I and many people I know have suffered from depression/anxiety stemming from a feeling of not being good enough. I would frequently find myself thinking "If only I was in a famous band or scoring a hollywood movie or if only I could play all of these 8000 instruments, then I would be happy and could call myself a success". There's nothing wrong with having goals, but it can be quite damaging to your mental health if you define your self-worth based on your progress against extremely difficult, arbitrary targets. That's a recipe for living life feeling like a constant failure.

I've still got goals and I constantly work towards them every day - but I don't define my self worth against them. Since doing that, It's felt like a huge weight has been lifted and I've been much happier and actually more productive at working towards them.

One final point I want to add is, in my experience in life, the goalposts move. Meaning my definitions for success and my goals change and develop as I get older. There's nothing wrong with that! I personally don't see anything in your story which I would call a "mistake" - you made the best decision you possibly could at each specific time of your life - soldering on with classical piano lessons whilst headbanging to Led Zepplin was never going to work out (this one I can personally identify with!).

GB


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## Mornats (Jul 13, 2020)

I started my road to virtual instruments and composing (for want of a better word for what I do) back in 2011. A work colleague got me back into playing bass guitar after many years of not playing. He recommended that I get EZDrummer and an audio interface so that I could play along and record myself playing so that I could listen and improve.

Fast forward to today and I've spent thousands on computer audio hardware and software. So what do I regret? I barely record my bass these days and I stopped learning and practicing it. I love where I am now with my music in general but I could be a much better bass player if I didn't let that slide.


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## Geoff Moore (Jul 13, 2020)

Or perhaps all of that was simply a part of your musical journey, giving you a set of varied skills and influences, and the only real mistake you could make is holding onto regrets instead of having fun and making music. So few of our favourite composers are concert pianists or world class guitarists. Step edit the fiddly bits and play in the smooth magic


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## Rasoul Morteza (Jul 13, 2020)

Thank you for sharing your story Keith, it is eye opening.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

Glen Brown said:


> Why, at your age do you need to be a Concert Pianist, world-class guitarist or famous


When i say that, i say it because from the age of 6yrs to now 62yrs is 56yrs. So 56 years of playing piano i should be at concert piano standard and and 50 years of playing guitar, i should be at a very high standrard but i am not even close to either as i didn't persue as i should have.
That is what i meant.
As for being famous, i came so close to getting signed by major lables but when it didn't work, i had tried so hard, it got me down so i gave up. I know that not everyone makes it famous but i pushed and pushed and i came so close. It wasn't that my desire WAS to be famous, it was my desire to be in the music business in my band.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

Mornats said:


> I started my road to virtual instruments and composing (for want of a better word for what I do) back in 2011. A work colleague got me back into playing bass guitar after many years of not playing. He recommended that I get EZDrummer and an audio interface so that I could play along and record myself playing so that I could listen and improve.
> 
> Fast forward to today and I've spent thousands on computer audio hardware and software. So what do I regret? I barely record my bass these days and I stopped learning and practicing it. I love where I am now with my music in general but I could be a much better bass player if I didn't let that slide.


That is what i'm saying, from the time i started classical piano to now, i should be conert pianist standard


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## Rasoul Morteza (Jul 13, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> When i say that, i say it because from the age of 6yrs to now 62yrs is 56yrs. So 56 years of playing piano i should be at concert piano standard and and 50 years of playing guitar, i should be at a very high standrard but i am not even close to either as i didn't persue as i should have.
> That is what i meant.
> As for being famous, i came so close to getting signed by major lables but when it didn't work, i had tried so hard, it got me down so i gave up. I know that not everyone makes it famous but i pushed and pushed and i came so close. It wasn't that my desire WAS to be famous, it was my desire to be in the music business in my band.


Keith, if I may give you my personal opinion.

I can not find a better example than Bach. Although he was relatively well known at his time mostly as an organist, he definitely wasn't famous and his works were considered old fashioned. He also failed to secure certain prestigious jobs, and most certainly did not attempt to become famous as composers of that era operated in a vastly different system. They were mostly hired by religious institutions to perform certain tasks. The majority of his works never got widely published during his lifetime as that wasn't a big industry back then and not very common either. And yet he still happened to become one of the most important, if not the most important western figure in composition and counterpoint, and a musical genius. This happened because he solely focused on his craft and wrote an insane amount of music whilst he could. As Marco Pierre White once said, "success is born out of arrogance, but greatness comes from humility". There is more to music than breaking into the "industry".

Cheers


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

I will give you an e.g. why i say i made mistakes.

The piano. Takes years to master it.
In mid 2000, i had a go at writing a Liszt type rhapsody. I wrote it by programming the note in cubase note by note. As i have an undertaning of piano playing ability, i wrote a pretty in your face, typical liszt power piano piece.
I put in on soundcloud and i got a reply. Wow! What an amazing performance!

I felt so embarrased when i told them how i had composed it.
After 56 years of how i should have learnt, i would be able to perform that piece no problems. I was actually learning to play complecated Liszt and Chopin pieces myself by ear then i got the computer and all that suddenly stopped. I made a seriously bad choice for my self.


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## Stringtree (Jul 13, 2020)

I appreciate your story, Keith. The upside of this is at any point in life one can improve on skills. By watching YouTube videos, I turned a years-long interruption in guitar playing into something nice. Where I left off was a bunch of pentatonic nonsense, and then I learned to solo in a jazzier way. Intuitive rather than pattern-based.

Now it's on to brush up on sight reading. Rhythms and pitches. I'm not bad, but I'm not great! 

Never too late, man. (Where did the guitar go in modern pop music? All those thousands of hours!!!)

Oh well. Diversify and you'll never feel like any of it was a waste. Still affected deeply by music? You did something right.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

Here you go, i recorded this in 2013 after years of not phisically playing the piano. Yes i am messing around but i used to be able to play these pieces fluently and seriously all the way through. You can see my fingers know roughly where to go but they are so stiff and slow it don't work.


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## MartinH. (Jul 13, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I put in on soundcloud and i got a reply. Wow! What an amazing performance!
> 
> I felt so embarrased when i told them how i had composed it.



If you "want" to have regrets, how about regretting not to get better at framing things in a more optimistic way? Instead of being embarrased, you could have been proud your programming was believable enough to be mistaken for a real performance, something that many strive to achieve here. 

I too feel like I've made plenty of mistakes and didn't end up where past me would have wanted present me to be now, but as a friend said to me: "That's probably how most people secretly feel".


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## Rory (Jul 13, 2020)

Rasoul Morteza said:


> As Marco Pierre White once said, "success is born out of arrogance, but greatness comes from humility".



Did he actually say that? He sure knows a lot about arrogance. But humility?

To borrow a French word, Merde!


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## telecode101 (Jul 13, 2020)

...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> The better question is, is the music you are making now giving you satisfaction and making you happy?


The answer to that is yes, i am happy with what i create but i know i could be creating even better if i had kept it all up.
The more you learn the better you get, the better you get,the better you create.


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## telecode101 (Jul 13, 2020)

...


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## D1scostu (Jul 13, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Dramatic title yes but seriously, read this if you are a young musician/composer.
> 
> This is what I should be at my age: (62, i started music when i was 6)
> 
> ...


Hi Keith great post, I can relate so closely to what you say - I am sure many on this platform can. I hope you don't mind but I am going to give you my story..

I too am a pianist from London. When I was 6 my parents were told by the school head of music that I was gifted musically and I should concentrate on learning an instrument, all I wanted to do was play the piano, (I heard a recording of Winifred Atwel playing the Black & White Rag and was mesmerised by the syncopation) I could see shapes and patterns on the keyboard and instantly knew this went with this pattern etc. also I am colourblind (only red/green) and different chords registered a different colour in my minds eye which also was quite interesting. (I wonder if any others have this) Anyway, my parents couldn't afford a piano so I started learning the clarinet which was good as it got me reading and writing music. I did get a small Bontempi keyboard that I kind of taught myself to play piano on. However, I didn't get much encouragement from my family - they were not musical at all and my Dad is quite 'old school' in go out and get proper job etc. and was often told to stop playing, as a result I had no confidence to play or perform publicly. 

I got a job working in my dads Engineering factory and saved up £1600 to buy my first piano a Kemble upright which was a quite amazing instrument. I continued to play behind closed doors but wanted to get better, I guess I could play to around grade 6/7 but I wanted to be Bill Evans or Herbie Hancock. so I responded to an add in Time Out magazine for Jazz tutition. (This was the best move I made) I studied with Peter Sander in Kilburn north London - and he taught me to orchestrate and eventually compose for anything from piano solo to huge orchestral ensemble. Then I got married....

and as it turns out to a terrible person. I didn't realise it until many years later but this woman was a massive narcissist. My confidence was eroded at every turn. I wish I had been stronger to stick to my beliefs and dreams but eventually I stopped having my tutor sessions with Peter and sold my piano. I stopped playing, didn't touch a piano or write music for nearly 10 years. 

Eventually I grew a pair of balls and ended my toxic marriage (the only good thing to come out of it was my daughter) I relocated to the south east English coast, and bought a Yamaha keyboard. I started playing again...then I met the most amazing woman who would become wife number 2. She is my ex-wife complete polar opposite..she's supportive and encouraging. She heard me play the piano and couldn't believe I'd never played or performed in public. She kept on at me to do something and eventually I got gigiging in a small jazz bar. she even made me re-connect with Peter my old tutor (who is 86 now) and I still have a lesson with him every month (Covid permitting). I am now writing better than ever and more prolifically too. I am constantly seeking commissions for compositions.. if they happen it greats if not that's OK too, it wont stop me writing.

The thing that I gained from my 'journey' is to surround yourself with good, like minded people that will encourage and support you. If you suspect someone is negative or toxic run like hell. They will completely alter your outlook - on everything - and what becomes your 'norm' is taking you away from what was once your dream. If I could go back and tell my teenage self something it would be believe in yourself and be nice. Thanks Keith sorry to prattle on but your OP got me reflecting...Gl mate


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## Loïc D (Jul 13, 2020)

Keith,

I’m walking in your footsteps.
Can you be my musical godfather ? 

Some differences though :
- I never sold my gear
- I’m happily married
- I never seriously considered being professional


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

D1scostu said:


> Hi Keith great post, I can relate so closely to what you say - I am sure many on this platform can. I hope you don't mind but I am going to give you my story..
> 
> I too am a pianist from London. When I was 6 my parents were told by the school head of music that I was gifted musically and I should concentrate on learning an instrument, all I wanted to do was play the piano, (I heard a recording of Winifred Atwel playing the Black & White Rag and was mesmerised by the syncopation) I could see shapes and patterns on the keyboard and instantly knew this went with this pattern etc. also I am colourblind (only red/green) and different chords registered a different colour in my minds eye which also was quite interesting. (I wonder if any others have this) Anyway, my parents couldn't afford a piano so I started learning the clarinet which was good as it got me reading and writing music. I did get a small Bontempi keyboard that I kind of taught myself to play piano on. However, I didn't get much encouragement from my family - they were not musical at all and my Dad is quite 'old school' in go out and get proper job etc. and was often told to stop playing, as a result I had no confidence to play or perform publicly.
> 
> ...


Well this is a proper story and i'm happy you shared it.
Like you, my ex wife was very undertanding and kept me pushing and pushing to reach my dreams. It was a few years after we divorced that i stopped pushing.

In my mind, i know i could have been 100 times better as a performer and composer.


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## SergeD (Jul 13, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I know i could be creating even better if i had kept it all up.



Absolutely false, creating is a journey within oneself. Creating is avoid patterns used over and over again and instead open up new territories that you have never explored.

A piano is a paddle, a guitar is a bicycle, each instrument is a means to move forward in the exploration of one's being.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

SergeD said:


> Absolutely false, creating is a journey within oneself. Creating is avoid patterns used over and over again and instead open up new territories that you have never explored.
> 
> A piano is a paddle, a guitar is a bicycle, each instrument is a means to move forward in the exploration of one's being.


I don't tend to over think things, i go by my experience. When i started composing, my music was crap, the more i learnt composing and ability wise, the better my music got. If i had kept up music study, i would be on the same musical understanding as say John Williams. I am not saying my music would be as good as his, i am saying that my knowledge and understanding of composition would be far superiour to what it is now so i think i would be composing better music with a better playing ability and composing ability if i had kept it up.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

Loïc D said:


> Keith,
> 
> I’m walking in your footsteps.
> Can you be my musical godfather ?
> ...


Don't follow me lol

On your differences, i am happy for you on all three counts!
Wanting to make it as a pro from an early age puts a lot of pressure on yourself and if you crash and burn, that is a bitter pill to swallow.
Ok that last bit is a bit silly but yes, i am disapointed in myself for giving up.


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## D1scostu (Jul 13, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Well this is a proper story and i'm happy you shared it.
> Like you, my ex wife was very undertanding and kept me pushing and pushing to reach my dreams. It was a few years after we divorced that i stopped pushing.
> 
> In my mind, i know i could have been 100 times better as a performer and composer.


My reply to that would be 'stop looking back wondering on missed opportunities'. You are clearly very talented (I watched your YouTube clip) and still play better than most. Try and look forward mate. I feel like I wasted so many years in that toxic relationship but there is F all I can do about that now. Gotta keep moving forward and trying to look for the next thing. You enjoy making music so just make it with enjoyment, without any expectations. You end up putting unnecessary pressure on yourself otherwise. I am pretty sure whatever you produce would be decent.


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## MartinH. (Jul 13, 2020)

Hopes and dreams and hindsight aside, and on a much more grounded and mundane level, is there even one person here who truly feels like they really got their shit together? No planned or important things they've been putting off for too long etc.? Are we all feeling to some degree that it's just impossible to ever "catch up"?


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## D1scostu (Jul 13, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Hopes and dreams and hindsight aside, and on a much more grounded and mundane level, is there even one person here who truly feels like they really got their shit together? No planned or important things they've been putting off for too long etc.? Are we all feeling to some degree that it's just impossible to ever "catch up"?


I guess that is how every one feels until you reach the point you want to be at.


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## telecode101 (Jul 13, 2020)

..


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## D1scostu (Jul 13, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> I think attaching your success or failures to wives/husbands/girlfriends/boyfriends is not right. Your choices and the opportunities you make or miss in your personal life are separate from the ones you make in your creative or professional life.
> 
> I am currently reading Francois Truffaut and his huge influence on cinema in 50s and 60s as a critic, writer. Sure, he had connections in film industry when he was young, but he also lived and breathed cinema and his art and craft all day and all night most of his life. I can't say I devoted that much time and energy to my craft.


Sir, with all due respect you have clearly never lived with a narcissist.


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## telecode101 (Jul 13, 2020)

..


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## D1scostu (Jul 13, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> yeah, sorry, i don't buy it. (don't take offense. its just my own philosophy on life). it's like people who go around calling everyone who's personality is in complete contrast to their own a sociopath. it means nothing and has no basis for nothing. everyone is living their life playing the hero in their life story.


Wow


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## telecode101 (Jul 13, 2020)

..


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## Ashermusic (Jul 13, 2020)

I was supposed to be both a pop star and a film scorer, like Randy Newman. I am not.

I came really close to both. In the end was I good, but not good enough? Was I too socially unskilled? Did I not work hard enough at my career instead of spending so much time with my wife and daughter? Did I just not get some breaks?

Probably all of the above. But as well intentioned as the OP is, you WILL make mistakes, because you are human.

I followed and continue to follow my passion, did and do everything to the best of my capabilities and held on to my integrity. And no, I would not choose to not have done so, despite the disappointments.


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 13, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> It was a huge mistake, we where divorced 7 years later
> 
> Nah i did enjoy being married and we wrer the best of friends too. It just didn't work out in the end.


Life repeats in themed cycles of 7 (7 intraday periods per day, 7 days per week, 7 weeks per 7-week period, 7 52-day periods per year from one’s bday, 7 years in 7-year period): Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. 7 notes in a heptonic scale (major, minor, modes).

Big group hugs 🤗 for Keith for being open and vulnerable, thanks for your truth & humility 🍾


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## telecode101 (Jul 13, 2020)

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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 13, 2020)

poetd said:


> Wait, what?


Even if you knew what I know, control is a mirage. Let life play out, as I don’t believe the Universe lets any of us be in real control. The idea of control and setting goals is like being hooked on heroine or cocaine. It feels good but that’s not necessarily what lies before your path as time matches on.


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## Montisquirrel (Jul 13, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> In my mind, i know i could have been 100 times better as a performer and composer.



If you would have achieved this and if you would be that 100-times-better-composer right now, you would still regret not to achieve to be a 200-times-better-composer.

The best thing you can do right now is taking your own lesson, learn from it and start today to become that 100-times-better-composer. You might have many many more years in front of you and even if the body gets slower and weaker you don't want to start a new thread in this forum in 20 years to tell us that you regret your last 20 years.

Do it now. You can do it. Close the tab from this forum am make some music.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

Montisquirrel said:


> If you would have achieved this and if you would be that 100-times-better-composer right now, you would still regret not to achieve to be a 200-times-better-composer.


Yes but at least my music would be 100 times better now untill i achieved the 200 times better mark.
We all strive to be better than what we are today (or most people do)


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## Arthur Lewis (Jul 13, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Yes but at least my music would be 100 times better now untill i achieved the 200 times better mark.
> We all strive to be better than what we are today (or most people do)



But striving to be better is different from looking back on the the choices you made that led you to not be better and calling them "mistakes".

Life is a balancing act. We make decisions based on the information we have at the time, and what feels right based on who we are. We're always weighing one thing against the other, and it's only in hindsight that we're able to look back and tell ourselves that the option we didn't choose was better or worse.

It seems like you're looking back at your life and saying "I wish I were a better musician" and then looking at what choices you made kept that from happening. So you've told us about your 5 big mistakes — 5 decisions that you made that led you away from being the best musician you could be now. But you haven't told us why you made them. You've told us what they took from you, but not what they gave you. I'd love to hear why you sold that guitar, why you stopped playing for so long, why you started step programming in Cakewalk. I'd bet each of those decisions brought you closer to something good back then, even as they took away from this idea of being a better musician that you're worried about looking back.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jul 13, 2020)

Regarding fame...

As a publicist for over 45 years in the film industry, I have worked with hundreds of celebrities, including many that people would consider legends. Let me tell you, getting famous would do NOTHING to alleviate your feelings of regret. I have never once seen it do it for anybody. Fame doesn't solve problems and often adds them. There are people who are fine without fame who find it to be a pleasant addition to their already happy lives-- before the pandemic it got them a table at a nice restaurant. 

Regarding your piano and guitar skills, I could tell you a similar story. Promising music career, bad marriage, the whole deal. My life went a different way, and that's all there is to it, and thankfully I enjoyed the actual life I lived.

Nobody can change the past, but the future is 100% in your hands. Don't look back. Give yourself a project. Push yourself to write the best music you can with the skills you have.

You say you wish you didn't give up in the past, so don't give up now! To quote Fritz Perls. "today is first day of the rest of your life."

From where I sit, you're a young man. I'm 67 and I'm making an album. I don't have all the technical skills and musical training that others have, but there's nothing I can do about that, so I accept it and move on. I just pick up my guitar and go to my keyboard and play. You're miles ahead of me!

Fame and skill don't mean anything at all if the act of music-making doesn't fill you with joy. Get going! Your best music is ahead of you.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Regarding fame...


Maybe i phrased that about famous wrong. It wasn't that i wanted to be famous, it was i wnated to be in the music business. Being part of a band that makes it in the business, fame comes with it. Being a film score composer, fame usually comes with it. So i don't mean i wnated to be famous, what i shoud have said was i should have had my profession in the music business.


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## MartinH. (Jul 13, 2020)

Somehow I'm being reminded of a talk by Dan Gilbert about freedom of choice and how it affects happiness:


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

Arthur Lewis said:


> I'd love to hear why you sold that guitar, why you stopped playing for so long, why you started step programming in Cakewalk.


I sold the guitar to buy a keyboard and a cheaper guitar.
When i got into computers i got into Midi, then into electronic music and trance and most of it was step record fast arps copy paste all that stuff. Didn't need guitar in that music, didn't need to play keyboards in that music lol

It was all programming the sequenser. What did i loose doing that? learning by instruments to a better level. What did i gain. A lot of trance and EDM tracks.
What would you rather have?
I enjoyed what i did at the time yeah but now i am paying for it as my own regrets.


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## Arthur Lewis (Jul 13, 2020)

Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is that wishing you'd done something else, because it makes you unhappy _now,_ doesn't necessarily mean it was a mistake then. I mean, what should you have done? Kept doing work it sounds like you didn't want to do for decades so that you could finally look back at 62 and say "Well, at least I'm really good at instruments now"? I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek here of course, but I think it's really important, as other folks have said earlier in the thread, to make a distinction between current regrets and actual mistakes.


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## telecode101 (Jul 13, 2020)

...


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## Varishnipu (Jul 13, 2020)

I do think you made no mistakes...music is not very good for all people to do..


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## telecode101 (Jul 13, 2020)

..


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## el-bo (Jul 13, 2020)

They're only mistakes when viewed in hindsight. At the time they were just choices you made, following what you wanted to do. Had any of those choices lead you to some sort of success (Whatever you define that to be), would they have been mistakes? Had you become a world-renowned Trance producer, able to now command tons of money playing DJ-ing your own music, all over the world, would you still call it a mistake?

As someone else posted, perhaps you might try reframing your multi-faceted life experience in a more positive light.

Of course, now you've identified the things you regret not having done, the real mistake would be to not actually start doing them. It's never too late!


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## RonV (Jul 13, 2020)

You might have been a concert pianist by age 25, and might have been completely "burned out" by age 35. Lang Lang developed serious tendonitis about 3 years ago, and his playing career was in doubt in his early 30's. (He recovered fortunately!) In the movie "Butterfly Effect" (2004), the main character discovered the ability to go back in time a short bit and "re-do" numerous events. But more often than not, making a different choice at a key moment produced OTHER unexpected and sometimes unwanted results.


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## Thundercat (Jul 13, 2020)

Some of a lot of Bach’s work is lost forever. I remember reading some of his manuscripts were used to wrap up meat. Think of all the tasty music lost to antiquity!


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## Thundercat (Jul 13, 2020)

poetd said:


> Good post Keith.
> 
> Brought back some sad memories though.
> 
> ...


Don’t limit yourself. You’d be amazeballsed at what you can still accomplish.


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## Thundercat (Jul 13, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I don't tend to over think things, i go by my experience. When i started composing, my music was crap, the more i learnt composing and ability wise, the better my music got. If i had kept up music study, i would be on the same musical understanding as say John Williams. I am not saying my music would be as good as his, i am saying that my knowledge and understanding of composition would be far superiour to what it is now so i think i would be composing better music with a better playing ability and composing ability if i had kept it up.


To quote Monty Python, ‘You’re not dead yet!” Your very best could still be ahead. If you persist.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

poetd said:


> Not that the young will hear you of course, they're all immortal and infinitely more wise than any old codger.


That is probably why i posted this, i thought i knew it all when i was younger


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jul 14, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Maybe i phrased that about famous wrong. It wasn't that i wanted to be famous, it was i wnated to be in the music business. Being part of a band that makes it in the business, fame comes with it. Being a film score composer, fame usually comes with it. So i don't mean i wnated to be famous, what i shoud have said was i should have had my profession in the music business.


I didn't respond to this right away because I wanted to think about it. You didn't say "I wanted to be in the music business." You said fame, which is revealing.

_Being part of a band that makes it in the business, fame comes with it.

So i don't mean i wnated to be famous, what i shoud have said was i should have had my profession in the music business._

A lot of people on this forum make all their money in the music business. Offhand, I can think of two famous ones. Maybe some of the others are extremely famous, I've just never heard of them.  

Let me tell you a story.

I was working on Ridley Scott's movie "1492." We finished up in Spain and moved to Costa Rica for scenes of the New World. I was sitting late one night next to a pool with one of the actors in the film. He had had a long and storied career as a New York actor, and had played many small roles in movies. He was there acting a supporting role in this huge epic. He wasn't roughing it in the resort with the crew like me. No bugs and salamanders and chickens in his room. He was in the deluxe small hotel with Ridley and the stars.

But he was practically suicidal. He thought he had wasted his entire life. He regretted every decision he made. Everything was a mistake. He was sobbing. 

Other actors might have cut off a finger to be him. A lot of people study and study but never get a single professional job. To them, he'd hit the jackpot. He'd lived his entire life as a professional actor. Why was he so sad? He wanted more than that. He wanted fame and didn't achieve his lofty dreams. So people called him, gave him big jobs, and he was miserable. 

I could tell you so many stories like this, although none are as extreme as this one. Success is in your head.

I'm not going to try to argue with you because I suspect you have your mind made up. But you are giving advice to young people, and I, who have spent my entire life adjacent to the very highest levels of "success," want to give very different advice to young people.

Be positive. Never, ever give up. As Woody Allen supposedly said, "80 percent of success in life is just showing up." You know? If you don't try, you don't achieve anything. Music doesn't write itself. 

Many of the most legendary artists in history had day jobs. The great American poet Wallace Stevens, who won the Pulitzer Prize, worked for decades as an insurance executive at The Hartford. 

Don't let anybody tell you what success is. Just keep playing and composing, whenever you can, no matter the obstacles. And sometimes the biggest obstacle is just getting yourself to go over to the computer, rolling up your sleeves, and getting to work.


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## telecode101 (Jul 14, 2020)

...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> Even if you had made those other choices back then, there's no guarantee you'd then be a happier, more satisfied man today. No-one can say how your life would've been instead.


That is a fair statement but i will say this too...
The person that said money can't buy you happiness... Oh yes it bloody well can! Specially if you are a composer/musician. I have spent over 30k in the last few years on instruments and gear and i have no where near what i want. How about my own big fat studio full of synths and guitars and gear. No matter what else happens in my life, THAT would make me very happy.
Making it in the music bizz with a big band or as a major artist would certainly give you that.
Being happy is all about being content.
Money can't buy you love but it can certainly buy you happiness lol


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## telecode101 (Jul 14, 2020)

...


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## jononotbono (Jul 14, 2020)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Be positive. Never, ever give up


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## Ashermusic (Jul 14, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> That is a fair statement but i will say this too...
> The person that said money can't buy you happiness... Oh yes it bloody well can! Specially if you are a composer/musician. I have spent over 30k in the last few years on instruments and gear and i have no where near what i want. How about my own big fat studio full of synths and guitars and gear. No matter what else happens in my life, THAT would make me very happy.
> Making it in the music bizz with a big band or as a major artist would certainly give you that.
> Being happy is all about being content.
> Money can't buy you love but it can certainly buy you happiness lol



True, Michael Caine said he grew upon poor, hungry, and cold and when someone says "money can't buy you happiness" he wants to punch them in the mouth. He says, "you better believe it has made me happy."


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## Ashermusic (Jul 14, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> (btw.. this is a film music composer forum -- not pop or EDM -- you *may* want to hit gearsluts site).




No, it isn't it's a virtual instruments forum.


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## telecode101 (Jul 14, 2020)

...


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## Ashermusic (Jul 14, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> oops. i didnt know that. i got the impression the community here is a little more pro composer oriended than gearsluts. i got on here to stay on top of kontakt development.




We have many media composers and aspiring media composers, but other endeavors as well. It's called "VI- Control" for a reason.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> a number of issues you have there. (btw.. this is a film music composer forum -- not pop or EDM -- you *may* want to hit gearsluts site).
> 
> what does "making it" exactly mean? how in the loop are you with new music and trends by new artists?
> 
> ...


I am here because i write orchestral and cinematic music. I write all sorts in fact. 
I am not interested in doing remixes of other peoples music. I compose my own. Making it in the music business doesn't only mean being in a rock or pop band. I am also here cos it is a site for composer and musicians. I use loads of orchestral libraries and i use loads of synth vst's.
Making it in a band is what i 'may' have been back then, making it as a film score composer is what i 'may' have been now.
I never thought about writing for films then, i didn't have the knowledge or resorses.
What i mean about 'making it' to me is anything to do with writing or performing music that i get paid for as a living weather it was in a band then or for film or tv in later life.
I am totally not interested in re mixing other people music


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> True, Michael Caine said he grew upon poor, hungry, and cold and when someone says "money can't buy you happiness" he wants to punch them in the mouth. He says, "you better believe it has made me happy."


   Too right. It feeds you, it puts clothes on your back, it puts a roof over your head but most of all, it gets you loads and loads of synths and guitars and orchestral libraries lol


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## telecode101 (Jul 14, 2020)

...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> The excersize of remixing other peoples mixes is it gives you exposure to new genres of music and new people and more importantly, to mixing and production styles and techniques that you haven't been exposed to.


Ok, that is a very fair point and i know that now days, you can't just be a composer, you have to be a producer, mix engineer, master engineer and so on.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jul 14, 2020)

Jay is obviously right in that it is better to have money than to be poor. There are a lot of people in the US not who are worried about how they are going to keep their homes and be able to eat. If they had money, they could sleep a lot better. 

But money ALWAYS brings everybody happiness all by itself? I have not found that to be true. I went out with an heiress for a few years. Tens of millions of dollars. Not happy at all. Very screwed up family. Lots of people born into fortunes have similar situations. 

I'm glad for Michael Caine, but his life doesn't speak for everybody on the planet thoughout history.

I have known hundreds of rich people and as a group they are much more unhappy than the people I know who are just comfortable. The more they have the more they want, or they are entitled and spoiled and always feel the world is not treating them right. If they are a movie star, they want to be a bigger movie star, or movie star x has more fame or gets paid more.

On the other hand there are people who get fame and money but it didn't change them from unhappy to happy. They were happy before, and with money they were just able to buy more stuff. I'm not saying it isn't nice, but it doesn't change who you are. If you are the kind of person who is going to try to kill yourself from drugs or whatever, you still will. 

I have spent my life in the fame game. When I talk of these things it comes from decades being with these people at very close quarters. I know what I'm talking about.

I don't know you, @Keith Theodosiou but if my life is any judge, you could buy a billion dollars worth of gear and you still might not be happy. Because you think it's going to make you happy. And that kind of thing isn't enough.

You would still feel regret and worse, you would be stunned to discover that the money didn't cure you of everything. I don't know, maybe you would be sad that you didn't get the money when you were young. There's always something to be depressed about if you set your mind to it.

How much gear does it take to make music in 2020, anyway?

Anyway, going back to play... enough of this thread.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

TigerTheFrog said:


> I don't know you, @Keith Theodosiou but if my life is any judge, you could buy a billion dollars worth of gear and you still might not be happy. Because you think it's going to make you happy. And that kind of thing isn't enough.


Ok you saying that.
Me as a person, i have always been happy all my life, i laugh a lot and i enjoy life.
There was a period in my life where in the space of 6 years, i was made redundant 4 times, the last time was so bad, i had to sell everything i owned to servive. All my gear, my car, my motorbike. I could not get work anywhere. It got to a point that i was living on one packet of biscuits a day and i had to use the local food bank cos i was getting ill. So, i know poverty and i know being well off.
Being well off time, i was always happy and enjoyed life, poverty time, i wasn't happy and i hated my life cos i couldn't see a way out.
I know what i would take any day as i have been through both.
Ok this has derailed a bit from the post but i said this as it was part of the post.

Edit: As an after thought, i am not expecting sympathy or anything like that, i am just stating what i went through in my life and how it affected my mentallity. I know there are people that have been in far worce situations than i went through, i am just saying what i personally went through and when i say about money making you happy, it's about not worrying where i'm gonna get the money to pay the electric bill or rent. And also things like, Oh Spitfire have released a new library called Symphonic Emotions, wow i really want that,then logging on and buying it and downloading it without worrying have i got enough money to get it.
That to me IS happiness (or a big part of happiness) Not having to worry and being able to buy what you want when you want.


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## Arthur Lewis (Jul 14, 2020)

Studies tend to show that money makes you happier to the level at which you’re comfortable, i.e. not struggling too much, and has not much effect above that.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

Arthur Lewis said:


> Studies tend to show that money makes you happier to the level at which you’re comfortable, i.e. not struggling too much, and has not much effect above that.


10 million quid = my own recording studio full of instruments and gear = watch my grin split my face from ear to ear.
Tell THAT to the researchers lmao


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## Arthur Lewis (Jul 14, 2020)

Sure, but for how long?


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

Arthur Lewis said:


> Sure, but for how long?


Knowing me? Till i die. Like i said, i am generally a happy guy, having money like that would make me even more happy. Why wouldn't it?
Like i said, i know me, better than anyone in this world.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

Ok i will try and explain this post in a nutshell that will cover both topics.

The money part: The only time in my life i was unhappy was that 'bad' period i went through that was caused by having NO money.
The rest of my life, happy when i was just comfortable enough to live and be able to buy some things i wanted, very happy when i was well off and i could buy a lot of the things i wanted.
The 10 million quid bit, i could by the one thing i have dreamt of nearly all of my musical life, a recording studio full of gear. How could 10 million quid possibly make me unhappy. It wouldn't. I know this. The ONLY thing that made me unhappy was loosing my dad but he was 89 so i expected that but loosing my sister who was only 55, that killed me yes but that would kill anyone so i don't class that kind of unhappiness as what we are talking about here.

Now, the original topic and how happiness overlaps with that.
Like i said, i am a happy guy, i don't sit here all miserable cos i posted to you lot that i made mistakes or wrong choises in life that like i said, trying to enlighten young musicians on why my bad choices didn't do me any favours. I'm still happy in lfe but i am saying i could be playing piano like a concert pianist or i could be playing guitar like Satriani or Vie but my choices stopped that.

I have never looked for sympathy i just told you what i did in life that at the time, i didn't think would affect me in later life.
I am still happy, look


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## Thundercat (Jul 14, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Ok you saying that.
> Me as a person, i have always been happy all my life, i laugh a lot and i enjoy life.
> There was a period in my life where in the space of 6 years, i was made redundant 4 times, the last time was so bad, i had to sell everything i owned to servive. All my gear, my car, my motorbike. I could not get work anywhere. It got to a point that i was living on one packet of biscuits a day and i had to use the local food bank cos i was getting ill. So, i know poverty and i know being well off.
> Being well off time, i was always happy and enjoyed life, poverty time, i wasn't happy and i hated my life cos i couldn't see a way out.
> ...


I’m sure I’m misunderstanding you but it just sounds like you think money will make you happy.

it will not.

you can find temporary pleasure in shiny new things, but if you are depressed or unhappy - those feelings will come back.

I think at a core level manyof us, including me, have a feeling that we are not enough. So we strive to fill ourselves and our lives with people and things - but that hole can never be filled that way. It’s a deep wound probably from childhood or media conditioning that tells us we are not enough unless we look a certain way, have certain things, have a certain amount of money, etc.

studies have shown that above roughly $75,000/year, more money does not equate to more happiness.

Other studies have shown people are generally happier when they spend money on experiences Vs things.

I guess new gear falls into both categories lol.

Point is - chin up lad. I know you’re not happy and I’m glad you posted. But you won’t find happiness in money alone. You might for awhile, but it will be short lived. As others have posted - if you’re unhappy, you’ll still be unhappy with money.

a really interesting book is Happiness is a Choice, by Barry Neil Kaufman. I’ve met the author personally and he’s brilliant.

another terrific book on inner healing is The Journey, by Brandon Bays.


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## Rodney Money (Jul 14, 2020)

4 years. That’s all you need to go from performer amateur with the skills of a senior high schooler being accepted into a school of music to a professional level performer. You need to do 3 things though, a live one on one private lessons with a teacher who can give you pro advice to your face, practice constructively 2 hours 5 days a week, and play consistent gigs, in live ensemble, or recitals.

I majored in music in college, but went through a difficult spell in life soon after, but then one day I looked at my wife and said, “I need to play again (my trumpet.)” This was 2016.” I had an old high school friend who offered to let me play a solo at his church, I only played in front of just 20 people on a Christmas Eve, but that led me to my 1st paying gig. I took it easy for that one playing the 3rd trumpet part. Then, I reconnected with my old trumpet teacher from college, asked him to build me some horns with the sound in my head, talked with him every weekend sometimes for hours about trumpet, and got to work on a strict practice schedule again. Then I had several playing gigs playing the 1st part, formed my own professional ensemble, performed some solo recitals and concerts, and ended up playing 1st trumpet in a professional orchestra playing a score to picture live in front of an audience right before the pandemic hit. So this was from 2016-2020. 4 years, and it started with a choice. Now I have people who play with me who say, “We don’t want to disappoint you,” and I have places that I’ve asked, “Why have you not ever called me to play?” Then they would say, “We wanted to but always figured you were too busy and we didn’t want to bother you.” Just 4 years, what a total difference, and my constant playing has given me a constant flow of composition commissions also from meeting everyone.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 14, 2020)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Jay is obviously right in that it is better to have money than to be poor. There are a lot of people in the US not who are worried about how they are going to keep their homes and be able to eat. If they had money, they could sleep a lot better.
> 
> But money ALWAYS brings everybody happiness all by itself? I have not found that to be true. I went out with an heiress for a few years. Tens of millions of dollars. Not happy at all. Very screwed up family. Lots of people born into fortunes have similar situations.
> 
> ...




Let's put it this way: if you don't have psychological issues, which may not be your fault, that prevent you from being happy, then it can make you happy.

Dennis Prager, who I almost never agree with, nonetheless wrote a book called "Happiness Is A Serious Problem" that is excellent. He makes the case that while people have different capacities for happiness, we have a moral obligation to ourselves, our family and friends, etc. to be as happy as is possible for us.

I can tell you this: I have had times in my life when I was not rich but making a fair amount of money. I was happy. I have a lot less money now, and I am not as happy. Every time I get hired for something that pays well, I get happier again.


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## telecode101 (Jul 14, 2020)

...


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## easyrider (Jul 14, 2020)

@keith-theodosiou

Read some Albert Camus....

Material Possessions are merely an illusion...Happiness manifests from meaning...

Embracing the absurd is the path to living....

Just like money is worthless when you have no way of spending it...

You regret selling a guitar...this is such wasted energy....and ultimately meaningless...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

I'm sorry but i don't understand you lot.
I am telling you i am a happy guy, even with the fact that i didn't reach my original achievements in life. I am a happy guy, always. Never depressed. I enjoy life, i really enjoy composing music. Having huge wads of money WOULD MAKE ME HAPPIER!

I know this i 100% know this. I want this i want that , having the money to be able to get this and that will make me happier.

Don't try and be philosophical about it. I am not like anyone else, i am like me. 
Just accept that. Wow, he would be happy with 10 million quid. Don't go by what anyone else feels, go by what i am telling you.
I am easy going, i love having a laugh, i enjoy life in general, i enjoy what i do, i don't get depressed( unless it's like i mention above but anyone would loosing a familly member that they where very close to)

Just accept the fact that i know i would be VERY happy with loads of money and loads of gear. Why can't you understand that simple statement lol

The people that are born loaded and are depressed all the time, is it REALLY cos they are wealthy? If it is, they can simply walk away from it and start a new life.

Just accept that i know the being able to buy what i want when i want would make me happy.

I've been married, i've been divorced, I've had relationships sinse, i've been happy and i've been sad in relationships, that is the norm.

As a Human Being though, i am happy, i am not a constant depressant, i enjoy life,i get on with it, yes i have regrets but i don't sit here moaning toy you about it, i tried to explain to other not to make bad choices in life like id did, but it all gets turned around lol.

I am a happy guy that enjoys life that enjoys what i create that would certainly enjoy 10 million quid to buy all the material thing i want in life.

Just accept what i am telling you. It is really that simple. lmao


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## classified_the_x (Jul 14, 2020)

Hey Keith, I'll stay on topic, I enjoy your posts here at Vi-Control and listened to a few tracks on Youtube, "Our Beautiful Planet" is very very nice IMO. (listened about 3 tracks). I noticed there are not many views at Youtube, since you've been for so long at the game, are you monetizing or promoting your tracks somehow? I know you said you got down after deals didn't go through, but expecting to be discovered nowadays is not so realistic.

You seem like an intelligent person, and intelligent people do not fit in that easy. Maybe you were ahead of your time, as someone said, who knows.

Just keep going, and although I'll keep your advice in mind, I play the piano fairly well, have a lot of gear (no 10 quid studio though) and I want so much more. We always want more, maybe you're just feeling the age, but 62 is young nowadays so keep going.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

The things in life that a person can experiance ONLY if money is no object.

I want to get on a plane to a far off exotic place and swim in the sea with dolphins any time i want.

I want to go around the world and se iconic places with my own eyes not a camera lens.

The pyramids, The Closseum, Everest, Australia, America, Russia, India, Japan, Africa, A safari, The Caribbean, the stones at Puma Punku and so on, you get the idea, to live life to the full, to see the world, how much have i spent so far?
I love fast cars, i want an Audi R8, i want an Aston Martin, i want a Dodge Viper, i want a Ferrari, the cost to run and maintain these cars, how much have i spent so far,

I want the Recording Studio, i want all the vintage synths, i want all the top of the range guitars and recording gear and so on, how much have i spent?

You get the idea, i like things, these things would me me happy, to see the world before i die, to experiance this world.

To be able to do what you want in life without worrying about it.

Would a huge bank account make me happy? Yes

Would a huge bank account make you happy? I don't know cos i don't know you.

I know me though.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

classified_the_x said:


> Hey Keith, I'll stay on topic, I enjoy your posts here at Vi-Control and listened to a few tracks on Youtube, "Our Beautiful Planet" is very very nice IMO. (listened about 3 tracks). I noticed there are not many views at Youtube, since you've been for so long at the game, are you monetizing or promoting your tracks somehow? I know you said you got down after deals didn't go through, but expecting to be discovered nowadays is not so realistic.
> 
> You seem like an intelligent person, and intelligent people do not fit in that easy. Maybe you were ahead of your time, as someone said, who knows.
> 
> Just keep going, and although I'll keep your advice in mind, I play the piano fairly well, have a lot of gear (no 10 quid studio though) and I want so much more. We always want more, maybe you're just feeling the age, but 62 is young nowadays so keep going.


Hi and thanks for checking out my YouTube channel.
Getting played on YouTube is not easy, Like you say, not many views or subscribers for the amount of time i have had the channel.
Same with Soundcloud or any other site i have uploaded. Maybe people don't like my music, who knows, i create, i upload and thats it. I enjoy what i create  
I have never earnt a single penny from any piece of music i have ever created, i have tried but not yet.
Music libraries for sync, all sorts.
When i was very young, i would have been disapointed but not now, i just compose, upload and try to promote on social media like most others do. People either listen or don't. Thats it really


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## classified_the_x (Jul 14, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Hi and thanks for checking out my YouTube channel.
> Getting played on YouTube is not easy, Like you say, not many views or subscribers for the amount of time i have had the channel.
> Same with Soundcloud or any other site i have uploaded. Maybe people don't like my music, who knows, i create, i upload and thats it. I enjoy what i create
> I have never earnt a single penny from any piece of music i have ever created, i have tried but not yet.
> ...



some people got into psychology in this thread, I don't like it so much because it can be patronizing at times but you might be self sabotaging yourself by not making an effort to promote your tracks. I can't judge by Youtube quality but if your mixes are good I am pretty sure you could monetize some of your tracks.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

classified_the_x said:


> some people got into psychology in this thread, I don't like it so much because it can be patronizing at times but you might be self sabotaging yourself by not making an effort to promote your tracks. I can't judge by Youtube quality but if your mixes are good I am pretty sure you could monetize some of your tracks.


On YouTube, you can't monetize untill you have 1000 subscribers.

As for the having loads of money side, i would not dream of telling you that 10 million wouldn't make you happy simply cos i don't know you, i don't know what you are like as a person or your view on life.

The researchers that say money don't buy you happiness are not talking about everyone, they are talking about the people they researched. I am not one of the people they researched, if i was, they would say, money don't buy SOME people happiness but others would be over the moon with it lol

By the way, i watched all the videos on the internet on how to promote your YouTube channel and Soundcloud page and this page and that site, i did all of it, it didn't make the slightest bit of difference.
I had my own website, i promoted that site with Google and all the other promoting sites, it didn't make the slightest bit of difference.

I tried, it didn't work, thats it. I'm still a happy guy


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## classified_the_x (Jul 14, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> On YouTube, you can't monetize untill you have 1000 subscribers.
> 
> As for the having loads of money side, i would not dream of telling you that 10 million wouldn't make you happy simply cos i don't know you, i don't know what you are like as a person or your view on life.
> 
> ...



Of course money is important, we need it for everything. I have listened to worse tracks than that track of yours I mentioned, in music libraries. Putting them on Youtube and Soundcloud is not enough, no one really gets listens in those places nowadays without ads or PR efforts, or personal promotion. Try royalty free libraries, at least if someone likes over there they might purchase your songs.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 14, 2020)

classified_the_x said:


> Try royalty free libraries, at least if someone likes over there they might purchase your songs.


I have my music on these sites, some of it has been there for years, i have heard nothing from them. That's it, what more can you do, i had one email once from one of the sites saying a major company is interested on one of my tracks for a major tv add campaign. That was it, that's all i heard.


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## schiing (Jul 15, 2020)

This one turned out to be a long one. I hope at least some of you will bear with me - perhaps there's some life advice in here, too, I don't know. Your threads turn out to be perfect platforms for online self-reflection - in front of strangers, no less, Keith (and before I've been able to dive into any of the equipment discussions, too!). Thanks, I guess 😁!

I enjoyed reading about your journey, in some ways it resembles my own. And many of the posts in the thread echo my own sentiments when thinking about these things - we're not that different from each other, it would seem.

I always think back to a conversation I had with an acquaintance in the legal profession. A man of many talents, he was a very likable guy, pretty high up in the legal system. He absolutely hated his current position.

But he felt so bound by the constraints of his chosen career path, the pride and prejudice of his professional environment, that in his head there was really only one road ahead that was acceptable. Unfortunately - and for reasons out of his control - that was almost certainly never going to be an option.

So he had basically resigned to the fact that for the next 25 years of his work life he would walk into an office he hated, work with awful people in a field he was done with years ago.

A lot of us feel that way - what struck me about his predicament was that it was entirely avoidable. A man of his talents could have gone on to do a thousand things and thrived - but none of them were tenable for a man in his position.

Now, I have made mistakes in my life, and pride, insecurities and social expectations have certainly influenced my choices over the years as well. In retrospect, it turns out, almost always negatively - and it is definitely the reason why I turned my back on music at every decisive turn, despite the fact that every fibre of my being has always been about music.

What pleases me most about my current position, though, is that none of that fazes me anymore. I spend every possible moment on music and the people I love - and that is everything. Due to my half-assed musical choices in the past, I don't think I'm a brilliant musical *anything*, and even though I'm as insecure about my music as anyone, nothing can ever stop me from doing exactly what I want to do when I want to do it - musically - other people's opinion be damned.

And I can't help but think that if I had entered music conservatory at that particular junction in 1991 and gone on to become a fêted soloist or an overworked media composer - or if I hadn't left that band just as I noticed that things started happening - I might not have found (or kept) the particular, all-encompassing joy of music that I experience at this stage of my life. 

As for fame - well, that wouldn't sit well with my personality at all!

So all in all, I'm pretty happy with how things turned out. But I would still kick myself over a few of the choices I made _if_ I could go back in time!


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

schiing said:


> This one turned out to be a long one. I hope at least some of you will bear with me - perhaps there's some life advice in here, too, I don't know. Your threads turn out to be perfect platforms for online self-reflection - in front of strangers, no less, Keith (and before I've been able to dive into any of the equipment discussions, too!). Thanks, I guess 😁!
> 
> I enjoyed reading about your journey, in some ways it resembles my own. And many of the posts in the thread echo my own sentiments when thinking about these things - we're not that different from each other, it would seem.
> 
> ...


This is a good post, you have been as honest as you can, even in front of strangers.
Hopefully i have too. Talking like this in front of people i don't know doesn't bother me at all. I was just tryng to put a point across weather it was my bad choices or how i feel about having money or not.

You can think what you like, we all have that option in life.
If i say i would be really happy with 10 million quid, you can not possibaly say i wouldn't. You could say it may not make you as happy as you think it would then i would reply but oh yes it would.
That's it lol i am telling you what i know 10 mil would do for me


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## schiing (Jul 15, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> If i say i would be really happy with 10 million quid, you can not possibaly say i wouldn't. You could say it may not make you as happy as you think it would then i would reply but oh yes it would.
> That's it lol i am telling you what i know 10 mil would do for me


Oh, well, I can only agree with you there. In opposition to fame, I think money sits very well with my personality!


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## classified_the_x (Jul 15, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I have my music on these sites, some of it has been there for years, i have heard nothing from them. That's it, what more can you do, i had one email once from one of the sites saying a major company is interested on one of my tracks for a major tv add campaign. That was it, that's all i heard.



you seem to have some confirmation bias with most of your assumptions, specially regarding money. would 500k suffice for instance or you specifically need 10 million? it just sounds unrealistic in the music business

regarding making music sales, maybe you should move some of your stuff to microlicensing websites then, won't make you 10 million though.


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## FinGael (Jul 15, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Dramatic title yes but seriously, read this if you are a young musician/composer.
> 
> This is what I should be at my age: (62, i started music when i was 6)
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing your personal story Keith.

It reminds of a little piece of music that I made in the past. It was based on a very lively vision of a very old lady who knew her time was just about up. I saw it in my mind as it was a movie scene. She stood on a porch of a big white wooden house, resembling many of those beautiful houses in the east coast of US.

She stood there and watched people of different ages passing by her house; children running, playing and laughing, a young couple deeply in love, young adults looking busy, an elderly couple walking slowly and steadily hand in hand and so on. There was a sense of longing and nostalgy, but at the same time tranquility. Longing to be able to live those moments again, but with the knowledge and perspective of life that life itself had brought along during they journey. At the same time acceptance of the situation, peace in her heart and a deep understanding that things were supposed to happen the way they did.

I can relate to many parts in your story. Music was always my biggest passion and still I had a break of almost fifteen years in playing instruments and composing. Also wanted to become famous, when younger, but thank god it didn't happen. With the ego I had back then it would have been disastrous. Even without major success I managed to crash and burn - and lost many years in trying to climb back to daylight.

Nowadays I think that things could have gone differently, but I am the person I am because of what I have gone through, experienced and what I have chosen. There are many kinds of routes and roads, and many different stories to be shared. Some of the hardest things on my path made me really want to grow as a human being and as a result I appreciate life today - as it is.

Often I hear that "old dogs can't learn new tricks", but (except purely physical things) I do not feel that way at all. Actually it feels the contrary; in many ways it feels easier and faster to learn things now. Maybe it has something to do with the state of consciousness I usually am in nowadays.

Is there a conclusion to all this? What I would say to young kids as an advice?

I don't know. Except "live your life and work to become the best version of you". Sometimes it means becoming successful, in many cases something completely different.

Anyways, our days are very limited here. I have chosen to try to be grateful of every day of this beautiful opportunity. Thank you all for being there to share this experience with me.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

classified_the_x said:


> you seem to have some confirmation bias with most of your assumptions, specially regarding money. would 500k suffice for instance or you specifically need 10 million? it just sounds unrealistic in the music business


I am just using 10 mil as an e.g. , 500k would get me some of the things i want then i would run out. 10 mil is an e.g. of having a bank account that lets you get or do what you want when you want.
The 'studio' was a young kids dream. I would still want that at my age. Who wouldn't.

I didn't say i would have earn't that in the music bizz, i may have i may not have.

10 quid is better than 5 quid. 100 quid is better than 50 quid. 10 million quid is better than 500k.
What i am saying is, the more zero's on the end the less you worry about money and the more you can get and do with it.

Can't you see what i am getting at?


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> It's good to have money to survive but its not good to have too much money for it makes you miserable and destroys you.


I'm sorry but i just can't see that. I have explained here time and again what money would do for me personally. Does that mean i am a greddy person or does it just mean i want a lot of things.

When i have money, i am one of the most generous people you will meet. I have given guitars to people that didn't have one that really wanted one to carry on learning. I am not a hoarder when i have money, i spend it like water, i see something i want so i buy it. Is that a bad thing? no.
If i wasn't a composer or musician, would i still want 10 million? Probably not but i would still want to be comfortable in life.
As a composer/musician, you know how extreemely expensive it can get. I use that figure as an e.g. for what i would want to help me buy the things i want. I can't put it any simpler than that. The path that most of us in this forum are on is a very expensive path. That's it. It's that simple lol


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## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

schiing said:


> I always think back to a conversation I had with an acquaintance in the legal profession. A man of many talents, he was a very likable guy, pretty high up in the legal system. He absolutely hated his current position.
> 
> But he felt so bound by the constraints of his chosen career path, the pride and prejudice of his professional environment, that in his head there was really only one road ahead that was acceptable. Unfortunately - and for reasons out of his control - that was almost certainly never going to be an option.



What he had no free will to leave ?



> So he had basically resigned to the fact that for the next 25 years of his work life he would walk into an office he hated, work with awful people in a field he was done with years ago.
> 
> A lot of us feel that way - what struck me about his predicament was that it was entirely avoidable. A man of his talents could have gone on to do a thousand things and thrived - but none of them were tenable for a man in his position.



Why was his position not allowing freedom of choice?


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## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I am just using 10 mil as an e.g. , 500k would get me some of the things i want then i would run out. 10 mil is an e.g. of having a bank account that lets you get or do what you want when you want.
> The 'studio' was a young kids dream. I would still want that at my age. Who wouldn't.
> 
> I didn't say i would have earn't that in the music bizz, i may have i may not have.
> ...



Your preoccupation with money is the key to your dissatisfaction with your own existence...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Your preoccupation with money is the key to your dissatisfaction with your own existence...


Ok now you jest


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## schiing (Jul 15, 2020)

easyrider said:


> What he had no free will to leave ?
> 
> 
> 
> Why was his position not allowing freedom of choice?


These questions are, of course, only for him to answer. He had an important public role. My interpretation is that he was so caught up in a system where people are so attached to the importance, status and reverence of their position - in society and in the law community - that any deviation from the traditional career path is seen as a huge step downwards/backwards.

And that's not always an easy step to take when you're on top of the world. 

I mean, imagine Thomas Newman or Hans Zimmer moving into jingles - or becoming celebrity cooks for that matter because they suddenly love cooking so much. People being people and, no matter what motivated the change; many will simply conclude that they have now lost their composer mojo and are, forevermore, losers.


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## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Ok now you jest



No, totally serious....

“Life,is what happens to us while we are making other plans.The trouble is most of us don’t realize this except in retrospect and then life has already happened.”

People always look for excuses...it’s in every Human Being.....Thats why “God” exists in some cultures...

External meaning is Myth


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## doctoremmet (Jul 15, 2020)

schiing said:


> These questions are, of course, only for him to answer. He had an important public role. My interpretation is that he was so caught up in a system where people are so attached to the importance, status and reverence of their position - in society and in the law community - that any deviation from the traditional career path is seen as a huge step downwards/backwards.
> 
> And that's not always an easy step to take when you're on top of the world.
> 
> I mean, imagine Thomas Newman or Hans Zimmer moving into jingles - or becoming celebrity cooks for that matter because they suddenly love cooking so much. People being people and, no matter what motivated the change; many will simply conclude that they have now lost their composer mojo and are, forevermore, losers.


In the Netherlands we recently had a member of the country’s administration (a secretary of state) who had to resign after some scandal. In stead of accepting a state paid pension that guy went on to become a bus driver, and he was quoted that he finally pursued his real “career dreams”. The guy obviously did not give a rat’s ass about societal status or whatever. Kind of a cool move.


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## Tice (Jul 15, 2020)

I sense a common theme in the 'mistakes' you list: It's usually you choosing to pick one thing over another thing. For some reason, you didn't think you could do both. But 'both' is often the most advantagious choice to make.
Sure, play the guitar, but don't stop playing the piano also.
Sure, compose through programming, but also keep playing live.
Sure, don't get your hopes up with each and every demo you send, but also don't stop sending them.
'Both' is the magic word. Variety is not only the spice of life, it's a major aspect of your composer's toolkit. And it's the thing that will keep you motivated over a long period of time.


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## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

schiing said:


> These questions are, of course, only for him to answer. He had an important public role. My interpretation is that he was so caught up in a system where people are so attached to the importance, status and reverence of their position - in society and in the law community - that any deviation from the traditional career path is seen as a huge step downwards/backwards.



Many people with conviction have stood down positions of power in history...It not the position it’s the person holding that position who is weak....

so in essence their position of power is nothing but illusion...They keep hold of the power as they are too weak to let go....this is delusion...



> And that's not always an easy step to take when you're on top of the world.



But no one had a gun to his head....he had the choice to Leave...regardless of wether this was hard or not...




> I mean, imagine Thomas Newman or Hans Zimmer moving into jingles - or becoming celebrity cooks for that matter because they suddenly love cooking so much. People being people and, no matter what motivated the change; many will simply conclude that they have now lost their composer mojo and are, forevermore, losers.



Imagine John Lennon becoming a house husband and baking bread and hanging up his guitar in search for his own personal meaning....Oh wait....


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## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

and


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## Arthur Lewis (Jul 15, 2020)

Alright, let me back it up a little. There’s nothing I can say to the “I know myself” argument. Maybe you are different from most people. But then, what‘s the point of giving advice? I’ve been responding in this thread not because I have some pressing need to change your outlook, but because you say you’re making these points in the name of giving advice.

At this point, it seems like what you’re saying is: I’m very happy with my life. But I wish I had more money so I could be even happier. If I had just stuck to playing instruments and composing with them when I was younger, instead of all that trance/EDM nonsense, I’d be more successful and have all that money so I could buy the things I want now and be happier. So kids, stick to your instruments and don’t get distracted.

The thing is: this is _terrible_ advice for so many reasons. If your goal is to make money, don’t go into music. Become an investment banker, or a lawyer or something, and do music as a hobby. If you have to make music, but want to maximize your potential income, popular music is absolutely a viable choice, and you have to be responsive to what’s happening around you. Sticking blindly to one thing in the hopes of 25 years later becoming a successful concert instrumentalist or composer may pan out for a few people, but it is definitely not practical.

It’s almost certainly true that if you had stuck to the piano and practiced hours a day every day for your whole life, you’d be a better player than you are now. But it doesn’t follow from that in any way that you’d be rich and successful. And it doesn’t follow for most people that if they followed this particular path, and became rich and successful, that _they’d _be happy, especially if they chose it over other things that they enjoyed more.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

[/QUOTE]


easyrider said:


> No, totally serious....


You haven't got a clue about me,
You haven't got a clue about how i see life,
You haven't got a clue about what makes me tick.
Yet you come out with a statement like that which to be honest made me laugh out loud.

I really can't see how you came to that conclusion based on some words i posted in a forum.
That is what i find funny.
I am obssesed with money and because of that, my life is a big dissapointment to me.

That is what i find funny cos it couldn't be any further than what i am all about.

Like i said, we all have our own opinions, it's just that sometimes, peoples opinions are pretty far fetched concidering they don't know the full facts


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## el-bo (Jul 15, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I have spent over 30k in the last few years on instruments and gear and i have no where near what i want.



Want or need?



Keith Theodosiou said:


> Being happy is all about being content.



You claim to be happy, but you seem far from content.



Keith Theodosiou said:


> As a composer/musician, you know how extreemely expensive it can get.



It can do. It needn't, though.



Keith Theodosiou said:


> The path that most of us in this forum are on is a very expensive path.



I've not been here that long, but is there really a "most of us"?. I'm inclined to believe that those that are spending the most are buying tools of their trade, which will earn back their cost at some point. Of course, that doesn't mean that a lot of money can't be spent by those of us that won't be able to recoup the investment. But it also doesn't mean that one cannot produce great music on a much smaller budget.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

I am sorry but a lot of you are missing the point of what i was actually saying.

I made bad choices in my life. Not musically, not EDM or electronic music' nonence' as some people say. I love EDM i love electronic i love rock, blues cinematic classical and so on.
What i said was, i stopped playing my instrument 'live' because i started to step record instead.
THAT is what i regret THAT is the original advise i was trying to give out.
It's like you are all trying to change what i had said.

I stopped playing my instuments live! I stopped playing the guitar full stop! THAT is what i regret.
That is what this advice was about till it all got turned around as though i'm some kind of idiot giving out silly advice!

I am NOT depressed with my live cos i haven't got money
I am NOT depressed with my like cos i didn't make it famous
I am NOT depressed with my life cos i am not in the music bizz.

I am disapointed it didn't go how i saw it going when i was younger but i am NOT depressed.

What part of any of that can't you get your heads around.
I made bad choices in my life that affected me in later life.Thats it. We all do at some point or another.

If you tell me your bad choices, i will accept that. I won't try and analise it and change it around then come out with a statement that is totally NOT what i am about.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 15, 2020)

I watched a photo the other day of Four Tet’s studio. He is a pretty succesful EDM composer and (re)mixer. Succesful in a couple of ways: he releases cool music, he gets to cooperate with cool other musicians, he seems happy 

Anyway, I noticed that he has way fewer synths and gear than I’d have thought. I saw an old battered Macbook, from a few generations ago. Some outboard gear like cassette decks and the odd lunchbox EQ or compressor. And most notably a very ugly chair. The comment below the photo was “So excited to announce my latest music release”.

Most likely I have spent more $ on my samples collection than the actual worth of this guy’s entire home studio. I liked Four Tet even more after this realization. He apparently “just” does it (which may not be true at all of course).


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## Arthur Lewis (Jul 15, 2020)

When dozens of different people misunderstand you in the same way, it’s worth considering whether your own communication hasn’t as been as clear as it could be. But what you said just now doesn’t change what I was saying: sticking to playing real instruments is absolutely no guarantee of money, success, or fame. I can understand that you wish you hadn’t given it up because it’s something you love doing and you wish you were better at it. But all the other stuff about money and success is just not useful advice for anyone starting out in music now.

If I’m still misinterpreting your advice, then please clarify. What is the advice you want to give? What lesson do you want people to take away from your story?


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## MartinH. (Jul 15, 2020)

schiing said:


> I mean, imagine Thomas Newman or Hans Zimmer moving into jingles - or becoming celebrity cooks for that matter because they suddenly love cooking so much. People being people and, no matter what motivated the change; many will simply conclude that they have now lost their composer mojo and are, forevermore, losers.



I'm sure a Hans Zimmer cooking show would be amazing!


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

Arthur Lewis said:


> sticking to playing real instruments is absolutely no guarantee of money, success, or fame.


"Now the computer was great and I got into midi and I got Cakewalk.
Huge mistake No3. I stopped recording ‘Live’ and I started step recording. With midi it was so easy plus I could compose things that where way above my playing ability.
Specially when I got into Trance as everything I wrote I programmed in.

I didn’t touch a guitar for at least 15 years and I didn’t physically play my keyboards anymore, I just programmed music through Cakewalk.
That was huge mistake No4."

Where in that statement did i ever say what i quoted you?
This is what i mean about twisting what i said to make it like i said something else.

I regret what i did simply for the reason that if i hadn't stopped playing my instruments live, i would be a lot better and happier with my playing abilites now.
That is what i was implying. Not one mention that it would have made me famous or rich.

I you are going to keep twisting what i originally said, then there is no point in me having this debate really.


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## Arthur Lewis (Jul 15, 2020)

Wait what?



> This is what I should be at my age: (62, i started music when i was 6)
> 
> A concert pianist (as in playing ability)
> A world class guitarist (As in playing ability)
> ...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

Arthur Lewis said:


> Wait what?


And? your point?
Read my quotes again. Because i stopped playing my instruments live, i am not a concert pianist in playing ability
I am not a world class guitarist in playing ability but if i had kept up playing my instruments live, i would have those abilities now.

I'm sorry but you lot just can't see what i'm getting at.
I have explained it over and over now, you are still not getting it so there is no point now.
You may discuss this amongst yourselves and make up your own little versions of what i said. 

No hard feelings at all by the way. I've just had enough of trying to explain what i meant


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## MartinH. (Jul 15, 2020)

Lets not split hairs guys, misunderstandings happen. It's a well meant thread that led to interesting and fruitful discussions.


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## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> You haven't got a clue about me,
> You haven't got a clue about how i see life,
> You haven't got a clue about what makes me tick.
> Yet you come out with a statement like that which to be honest made me laugh out loud.
> ...



There are people that ”DO” and their are people who post Sentiments of regret about giving up playing the guitar years ago....

The former is more productive...the latter is wasted energy....

Your OP title is “Don’t make the same mistakes as me” As you have concluded everyone is different...and

“You haven't got a clue about me,
You haven't got a clue about how i see life,
You haven't got a clue about what makes me tick.”

Then giving up the guitar and pursuing something else or a new direction could be the best thing another individual could do based on your latter comments in this thread....


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## el-bo (Jul 15, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I watched a photo the other day of Four Tet’s studio. He is a pretty succesful EDM composer and (re)mixer. Succesful in a couple of ways: he releases cool music, he gets to cooperate with cool other musicians, he seems happy
> 
> Anyway, I noticed that he has way fewer synths and gear than I’d have thought. I saw an old battered Macbook, from a few generations ago. Some outboard gear like cassette decks and the odd lunchbox EQ or compressor. And most notably a very ugly chair. The comment below the photo was “So excited to announce my latest music release”.
> 
> Most likely I have spent more $ on my samples collection than the actual worth of this guy’s entire home studio. I liked Four Tet even more after this realization. He apparently “just” does it (which may not be true at all of course).



It's probably fair to say that those musicians who make music primarily from audio, off the back of crate-digging and sample-flipping, can get buy with very little. That's not to diminish Kieran's work, in any way, as he really makes some beautiful music!


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## SupremeFist (Jul 15, 2020)

I haven't a clue how I would even begin to spend £10 million on studio gear. Sure, I'd like some more guitars because I am a guitarist and therefore an idiot, but once you have an instrument like my nicest guitar (a Les Paul Standard), there are very rapidly diminishing returns in spending more, and it generally becomes a distraction from working on getting better at playing the damn thing.


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## Arthur Lewis (Jul 15, 2020)

OK, I've just read through the entire thread again (whew!) and I think I get it. @Keith Theodosiou, I now understand why you're saying that folks have been misunderstanding you, and I apologize for doing that myself. From a closer reading, it seems like you've been making two entirely separate arguments throughout the thread:

1. If you'd stuck to playing live, you'd be a much better player now.
2. Even though you're already very happy, you'd be even happier if you'd become rich and successsful and could buy more gear.

Is that right? Those points both seem reasonable enough by themselves; I think I (and some other folks) had been combining the two of them into something that seemed less reasonable. Again, I apologize for that.

I will, however, reiterate one point I made earlier: if dozens of people are misunderstanding you in the same way, it's worth looking at how you're communicating your point. I wasn't twisting your words around for fun; I got confused because I was actually finding it very difficult to keep track of what you were saying. Which is why I went back and read through the whole thread just now. I guess I'm just saying please keep in mind that we're not misunderstanding you on purpose.


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## Arthur Lewis (Jul 15, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I haven't a clue how I would even begin to spend £10 million on studio gear. Sure, I'd like some more guitars because I am a guitarist and therefore an idiot, but once you have an instrument like my nicest guitar (a Les Paul Standard), there are very rapidly diminishing returns in spending more, and it generally becomes a distraction from working on getting better at playing the damn thing.


This sounds like it might make a very interesting new thread.


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## el-bo (Jul 15, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I haven't a clue how I would even begin to spend £10 million on studio gear. Sure, I'd like some more guitars because I am a guitarist and therefore an idiot, but once you have an instrument like my nicest guitar (a Les Paul Standard), there are very rapidly diminishing returns in spending more, and it generally becomes a distraction from working on getting better at playing the damn thing.



With that kind of money one could probably buy everything necessary, just from the interest payments


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## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

poetd said:


> Frank wasn't a Rock Star who turned to classical.
> He was a classical musician who turned to Rock to get laid.
> 
> He later realised he could use the more popular Rock stuff to pay for his Orchestral work to get played.
> Though he never really saw any massive distinction between the 2 sides.



My point of posting the video was to highlight you make music for you...if people like it good if they don’t then it doesn’t matter...

Being good at something does not mean you have to have commercial success...

Zappa says similar at 3.00...

He takes the recording home so he can listen to it...if some people dig it then fine but that’s not the driving force behind his endeavour...


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## MartinH. (Jul 15, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I haven't a clue how I would even begin to spend £10 million on studio gear. Sure, I'd like some more guitars because I am a guitarist and therefore an idiot, but once you have an instrument like my nicest guitar (a Les Paul Standard), there are very rapidly diminishing returns in spending more, and it generally becomes a distraction from working on getting better at playing the damn thing.



If I may humbly make a suggestion for your £10 million studio: Get a massage room staffed 24/7 (or whatever time window you might be in the studio) with friendly and qualified physiotherapists to give you a massage whenever you need one, and do some personal training sessions with you twice a week or so. That's probably one of the most tangible life-quality enhancing things you can buy, that is actually healthy for you.


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## jononotbono (Jul 15, 2020)

Arthur Lewis said:


> If your goal is to make money, don’t go into music.



Most honest piece of advice of all time. 😂


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## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Most honest piece of advice of all time. 😂




Cause it's a bittersweet symphony this life
Trying to make ends meet, you're a slave to the money then you die.


----------



## Rory (Jul 15, 2020)

easyrider said:


> My point of posting the video was to highlight you make music for you...if people like it good if they don’t then it doesn’t matter...
> 
> Being good at something does not mean you have to have commercial success...
> 
> ...



Right...

"*There are a lot of things that I can do to earn a living, and a lot of things that I’ve already done to earn a living, which has produced the amount of capital needed to do this project. I came here to spend money on an English orchestra to record my music so I can take it home and listen to it. And, if somebody else likes that kind of stuff, I will make it available on a record so that they can hear it. … Just a crazy guy who spent the money to hire English musicians to do a concert at the Barbican and make an album for Barking Pumpkin Records."*


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

Arthur Lewis said:


> OK, I've just read through the entire thread again (whew!) and I think I get it. @Keith Theodosiou, I now understand why you're saying that folks have been misunderstanding you, and I apologize for doing that myself. From a closer reading, it seems like you've been making two entirely separate arguments throughout the thread:
> 
> 1. If you'd stuck to playing live, you'd be a much better player now.
> 2. Even though you're already very happy, you'd be even happier if you'd become rich and successsful and could buy more gear.
> ...


I will respond to this reply as it is the best responce i can agree with.

Your point 1 and 2 are precisely both my points i was trying to get across so thank you.

As for apologizing to me for misunderstanding, there is no need to as it may be me that should be apologizing for not making my inicial points clear in the first place.

So, point 1 and point 2 in this post are exactly what i was trying to get across


----------



## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

poetd said:


> But he also says he's already made the money that he can afford to do it.
> 
> Few of us can just "choose" to go and get the LSO to record our music for us.
> 
> (OMG, the results if that was so......)



That shouldn’t be a limitation of creating music...


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## Brambleclaw (Jul 15, 2020)

Life decisions are never a mistake, they're just part of the journey in personal growth.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 15, 2020)

Brambleclaw said:


> Life decisions are never a mistake, they're just part of the journey in personal growth.



This!!!!! Hindsight is always 20/20, it’s easy to keep saying “what if”, I am guilty myself. 

@Keith Theodosiou if you had pursued becoming a concert pianist, you may have totally hated it. You are alive and well, and did what you thought was right at the time. Plus, you ARE still young it’s never too late to pursue those things that are nagging your heart. I have a very similar story, and I’m in my third year of taking formal piano lessons (I’m 50). I think at this point in life, we know exactly what we want, so it’s easier to focus.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> @Keith Theodosiou if you had pursued becoming a concert pianist, you may have totally hated it.


I didn't say i wanted to persue a career as a concert pianist, i implied that if i hadn't stopped playing the piano 'live' when i did, the rate at which i was excelerating my playing ability, at my age now i would be in the concert pianist playing ability ability lol


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 15, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I didn't say i wanted to persue a career as a concert pianist, i implied that if i hadn't stopped playing the piano 'live' when i did, the rate at which i was excelerating my playing ability, at my age now i would be in the concert pianist playing ability ability lol



Of course, but it doesn't necessarily mean you would enjoy it (nor does it mean you would be a better composer). If you hadn't done what you did, you may have been a great pianist at this point, but regretted not sending out those demos to major labels in the 90's. It's catch 22, and you can either dwell on it or pick up where you left off and make the most of it while you can. 

PS- I also bought a computer in the early 90's, my fist sequencer was Cakewalk 2.0....I still have the box sitting on a shelf in my studio!


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Of course, but it doesn't necessarily mean you would enjoy it (nor does it mean you would be a better composer). If you hadn't done what you did, you may have been a great pianist at this point, but regretted not sending out those demos to major labels in the 90's. It's catch 22, and you can either dwell on it or pick up where you left off and make the most of it while you can.
> 
> PS- I also bought a computer in the early 90's, my fist sequencer was Cakewalk 2.0....I still have the box sitting on a shelf in my studio!


So you are seriously saying that i wouldn't enjoy being able to play the piano like a concert pianist can?

Have you ever seen Dudley Moore on the Parkinson show play his Colonel Bogey piece? If you haven't, then google it. I would give my right arm to be able to play like that.(although then i wouldn't be able to lol)

Google it now!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 15, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> So you are seriously saying that i wouldn't enjoy being able to play the piano like a concert pianist can?
> 
> Have you ever seen Dudley Moore on the Parkinson show play his Colonel Bogey piece? If you haven't, then google it. I would give my right arm to be able to play like that.(although then i wouldn't be able to lol)
> 
> Google it now!



I have no idea, I'm not you. I'm just saying not to beat yourself up over it, life is too short (there's no guarantee you'd be any happier playing like that). But if you really want to find out, continue your pursuit! Nothing stopping you.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I have no idea, I'm not you. I'm just saying not to beat yourself up over it, life is too short (there's no guarantee you'd be any happier playing like that). But if you really want to find out, continue your pursuit! Nothing stopping you.


Ok, no disrespect to you but i don't think that is the sort of thing you would say to a pianist. Really, at the time when i stopped physically playing the piano, i was on my way, i was starting to be able to play hard Liszt pieces. I was getting there and i stopped.
I will show you what i mean. If any admin here, i am putting this here as although it is my music, it is for the purpose of a point i am trying to put across so i know it is in the wrong place.

Listen to this. I composed it totally by step recording one note at a time. When you have seen enough, then read what i write below the video.


I wrote that to try and emulate the style of Liszt.
Now, that video should have been me playing my own composition 'live'.

Now i used to be able to play somewhere in that region but not as well. This is how i would be playing if i hadn't stopped. Yes i could re learn how to get to this standard but it wouldn't just take a few months.


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## MartinH. (Jul 15, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Have you ever seen Dudley Moore on the Parkinson show play his Colonel Bogey piece? If you haven't, then google it. I would give my right arm to be able to play like that.(although then i wouldn't be able to lol)
> 
> Google it now!



If you still have the ability to think and feel "Being able to do ____ would be awesome!", cherish it! It can still drive you to learn and do things that are out of reach for many others. It is very easy to take for granted because it's hard, or maybe even impossible to imagine how it is to lose this passion... but you _can_ lose this and not everyone has it in the first place.


----------



## el-bo (Jul 15, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Yes i could re learn how to get to this standard but it wouldn't just take a few months.



You've identified the things you regret not doing, but when other people suggest that you still have the opportunity to do some of the very same things, you seem to put up a bit more resistance. 

I'm sure you started this thread with the best of intentions, but If you aren't ready to learn from your own experience, how would anybody else?


----------



## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

el-bo said:


> You've identified the things you regret not doing, but when other people suggest that you still have the opportunity to do some of the very same things, you seem to put up a bit more resistance.
> 
> I'm sure you started this thread with the best of intentions, but If you aren't ready to learn from your own experience, how would anybody else?


But compared to the age i was when i stopped which was around 34 yrs old to re starting at 62 yrs old there is a big difference. How my finger move now, my reaction times now and so on.Yes i play live now but to seriously knuckle down now is maybe asking too much of myself. If i had kept it up, the that kind of playing would not be a prob as my hands, arms and fingers would be highly toned to play.


----------



## el-bo (Jul 15, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> But compared to the age i was when i stopped which was around 34 yrs old to re starting at 62 yrs old there is a big difference. How my finger move now, my reaction times now and so on.Yes i play live now but to seriously knuckle down now is maybe asking too much of myself. If i had kept it up, the that kind of playing would not be a prob as my hands, arms and fingers would be highly toned to play.



The issue seems to be that you're viewing this from a goal-orientated perspective i.e the idea of the concert-pianist, virtuoso etc., rather than a challenge and enjoyment perspective. You may never make it to that level (You might), but there's no reason why you couldn't easily surpass your previous skills.
And the body is highly-adaptable, so unless you have some kind of health condition that prohibits fluid hand movement you should be good to go.

Again...The mistake, imo, would be to recognise the regret and still not do a thing about it.

I gave up studying classical guitar after achieving Grade 2, somewhere around the age of eleven. I have always had a classical guitar around, since then, but have for a while regretted that I don't have any kind of classical repertoire, that I could just sit and play, to enjoy (Rather than having to deal with the anguish of composing my own music). Now, at 48, I have a recently cleaned and re-strung guitar, waiting for me to start completely from scratch (Can't even read music). Any small regret I might have for not having done it sooner pails into insignificance when I consider how much I would regret it, in ten years, if I didn't start now...now that I have identified that little pang of regret.


----------



## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

el-bo said:


> And the body is highly-adaptable, so unless you have some kind of health condition that prohibits fluid hand movement you should be good to go.


I'm not saying i wouldn't give it a go but to be seriously trying to reach that level will not be easy.
When i was your age, i didn't notice my body getting older. At my age now, you notice a hell of a lot lol
Believe me, i still try and do things that didn't bother me at your age but now, it all hurts lol.
There is nothing physically wrong with me, it's just muscles and joints don't work as good as i remember them working


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## telecode101 (Jul 15, 2020)

....


----------



## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 15, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> There is probably a 1,000 other much quicker ways to make $500k or $10 million than trying to make in the music industry.  The music industry and music business is and always has been the small potatoes of entertainment industry. People usually try to graduate from music industry to TV and film because that's where the big money is.
> 
> Trying to make money in music is a risky gambling endaevour. It is for young people who are still starting out in life and don't have many obligations, responsibilities or much to lose. Once you get older, you are gambling with other peoples lives and livelihood. Keep it a hobby and enjoy the creative outlet it gives you.


Yes i totally understand that.I have been through the marriage and respocibility , now i have none. I am still a bit tied down as i have gone back to live with my mother who is 92 now so i look after her. I can't leave her to live on her own. We lost my dad in 2015 and my younger sister in 2016 which basically floored her as you can imagine.
I have all the time in the world and with that time i compose shitloads lol.
When my mum does go, then my life will change again no doubt. I know i am not going to make wads but it is nice to be comfortable and not worry about food, bills and the roof over my head plus get gear when i want


----------



## el-bo (Jul 16, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I'm not saying i wouldn't give it a go but to be seriously trying to reach that level will not be easy.
> When i was your age, i didn't notice my body getting older. At my age now, you notice a hell of a lot lol
> Believe me, i still try and do things that didn't bother me at your age but now, it all hurts lol.
> There is nothing physically wrong with me, it's just muscles and joints don't work as good as i remember them working



A lot of what people consider a normal part of ageing is really more attributable to lifestyle issues. Certainly, when it comes to joints and muscles, inflammation can play real havoc. And much of that inflammation can be reduced with certain lifestyle changes. Either way:


----------



## Brambleclaw (Jul 16, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> So you are seriously saying that i wouldn't enjoy being able to play the piano like a concert pianist can?
> 
> Have you ever seen Dudley Moore on the Parkinson show play his Colonel Bogey piece? If you haven't, then google it. I would give my right arm to be able to play like that.(although then i wouldn't be able to lol)
> 
> Google it now!


So are you actually just bragging about your potential after washing up and being dissatisified with your current position.


I don't understand the purpose of your post if this is the case.


Its a negative attitude that just creates an excuse not improve and look forward. Shouldn't dwell over missed opportunities, there always more on the horizon.

You make your own opportunities.


----------



## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 16, 2020)

Brambleclaw said:


> So are you actually just bragging about your potential after washing up and being dissatisified with your current position.
> 
> 
> I don't understand the purpose of your post if this is the case.
> ...


Why does everyone insist on keep trying to twist what i said.

Listen, i am not bragging, i amd not the best composer inb the world, i am not dissatified with my current posion or mys current composing ability or my current life.

Understand what i am about to say now, then forget it and go on to the next post.

I mistakenly didn't phrase the inicial correctly so people mis understood what i meant.

Someone finally worked out what i meant.
I am happy with the way things are now but i am disapointed with myself at some of the choices i made in my youth.
One was i stopped playing the piano that i was finally starting to get to a point where i could start playing harder piece that i wanted to play. Simply because i started to programe all my music in a daw and i didn't stop to think how it would affect me later in life and that if i HADN'T stopped, by now i would be able to play concert standard pieces. WHAT is bragging about that. Then when someone says' but you may not be happy being able to play like that, my inicial reaction was WHAT?? What a weird thing to say to a musician that has just stated that THAT point is whet he was disapointed at himself for in the first place.

The other thing (apart from selling a beautiful top of the range guitar at the time) was giving up to easily in trying to make it in the music bizz. I was in a band, we came close time and again i wrote for computer games sending loads of demos out, i came very close at getting an in house musician job at EA but out of sheer bad luck, it all went wrong within a week.

Demos for music here demos for music there constantly, rarely getting a simple 'no' mostely getting no responce at all. From the age of 17 to about 35 till i got fed up and gave up.
Did i give up too soon? maybe.
Should i not have given up? maybe, but i did. That is it.

I am not going to explain all this again. I made choice then that when i look back, i am disapointed with my self.
I will now say the next bit i capitals. I am not shouting, i am doing it so you see it then move on.

I AM NOT DEPRESSED AND I A NOT DISAPOINTED IN MY LIFE NOW. I AMD JUST DISAPOING AT MY SELF FOR SOME BAD CHOICES I MADE WHEN I WAS YOUNGER.

Now, leave it.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 16, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> *@Keith Theodosiou*
> 
> Have you tried making stretching exercises for the joints in your fingers once or twice a day?
> 
> It's helping me (I'm 48 btw.)


I have one of them hand excercise gadgets for guitarists. Just got to be carefull not to overdo it lol I play everyday so that keeps them going too. My joints are ok and i can still play some fast riffs on the piano but i don't practice for hours and hours on guitar or piano like i used to when i was younger. I am getting slowly back to shape though. Getting the forearms used to playing for longer periods without aching so much  It's weird though as i found that playing piece's i used to play by heart, the muscle memory is still there but just forget some of the notes lol


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 16, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> *@Keith Theodosiou*
> 
> Have you tried making stretching exercises for the joints in your fingers once or twice a day?
> 
> It's helping me (I'm 48 btw.)


This was a few weeks ago lol
View attachment Gavotte.mp4


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 16, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> Stretching one's finger joints is a good thing regardless of whether or not one have problems with one's fingers, wrists etc.
> 
> Guitarists often do it; piano players probably also.
> 
> Have you never heard of this before?


Yes i have


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## doctoremmet (Jul 19, 2020)




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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


>


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


>



I am not even tempted to click on it lol


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## doctoremmet (Jul 19, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I am not even tempted to click on it lol


Hey Keith. Click it, you’ll instantly warp back to big eighties haircuts, ridiculous gated reverb Hugh Padgam snare sounds, DX7 and D50 preset patches and all those good things the eighties gave us! They even managed to program one bar of 3/4 groove over the regular 4/4 in there, quite good!


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Hey Keith. Click it, you’ll instantly warp back to big eighties haircuts, ridiculous gated reverb Hugh Padgham snare sounds, DX7 and D50 preset patches and all those good things the eighties gave us! They even managed to program one bar of 3/4 groove over the regular 4/4 in there, quite good!


Oh ok, for the memory of that girlfriend, i was besoted with her lol


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## el-bo (Jul 19, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I am not even tempted to click on it lol



Solid pop classic 👍🏻


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

el-bo said:


> Solid pop classic 👍🏻


I can listen to a lot of 80's classics but i clicked the link, heard a few bars and had to turn it off lol
They where really not my thing back then, i went for her lol


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## doctoremmet (Jul 19, 2020)

Ok Keith. You seem to love progrock. So let me offer you this in stead of Bros. Brittain’s most excentric but good guitar player:


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Ok Keith. You seem to love progrock. So let me offer you this in stead of Bros. Brittain’s most excentric but good guitar player:



Yes they where a bit 'out there' lol


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## doctoremmet (Jul 19, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Yes they where a bit 'out there' lol


But very good


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> But very good


Indeed, like John Mclaughlin, i did have Birds of Fire by Mahavishnu Orchestra


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## easyrider (Jul 19, 2020)

I seriously can recommend this doc ( No I’m not joking )









After the Screaming Stops (2018) - IMDb


After the Screaming Stops: Directed by Joe Pearlman, David Soutar. With Luke Goss, Matt Goss, Ron Perlman, Robin Antin. In the 1980s, "BROS" were on of the biggest bands in the world - for 15 minutes. A raw and emotional look into the aftermath of fame and the re-connection between two twins...




www.imdb.com





Both are incredibly talented guys....even though a tad neurotic


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I seriously can recommend this doc ( No I’m not joking )
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think i have seen that to be honest. I know they where talanted from seeing them live.
I wasn't really into Prince but i saw a docu on him and realised he was a phenominal musician.


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## Michel Simons (Jul 19, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Ok Keith. You seem to love progrock. So let me offer you this in stead of Bros. Brittain’s most excentric but good guitar player:




Now we're talking. The mighty Crim.


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## Ivan M. (Jul 19, 2020)

I don't think you made a big mistake. If you were to train as a concert pianist, you would probably hate it. I'm sure of that because your interests pulled you in other directions. Seems to me you're a producer and a composer, and that's where you feel at home (correct me if I'm wrong). 

The only thing you need as a producer/composer is to be proficient with an instrument enough to be able to create, not to perform, especially today when we have computers.

Sometimes we are drawn to things that seem to give more status (fame), but that's usually different from what we actually love. And if we ignore what we love, we become miserable. 

The industry, judging by the comments, is disgusting, who would ever want to work there. So failure to break through might be a good thing. ,,Who knows what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from". 

It would be nice to earn money from music, but the market is so saturated, it's almost impossible, even to be heard as a bare minimum. And if you earn money, you most likely dont have the full creative freedom, you work for others, in that disgusting industry.


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## telecode101 (Jul 19, 2020)

..


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

Ivan M. said:


> I don't think you made a big mistake. If you were to train as a concert pianist, you would probably hate it. I'm sure of that because your interests pulled you in other directions. Seems to me you're a producer and a composer, and that's where you feel at home (correct me if I'm wrong).


I wasn't training to be anything in particular to be honest. I started piano when i was six and i was getting better and better as the years went by,with a few years in between to concentrate on learning the guitar.
I was getting to a point where i wanted to be with the piano, then i stopped to persue electonic music with midi.That is my personal mistake, i should have carried on playing live and getting better as well as doing the midi not instead of.
I simply cannot undersatnd why people keep saying i would be unhappy playing to concert piano standard. That is what i want, i just couldn't see it at the time as i was too engrossed in midi.
I would be seriously happy being able to play the piano at that standard, i mean, who the hell would be unhappy.
I don't get you lot lmao


----------



## Levon (Jul 19, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I wasn't training to be anything in particular to be honest. I started piano when i was six and i was getting better and better as the years went by,with a few years in between to concentrate on learning the guitar.
> I was getting to a point where i wanted to be with the piano, then i stopped to persue electonic music with midi.That is my personal mistake, i should have carried on playing live and getting better as well as doing the midi not instead of.
> I simply cannot undersatnd why people keep saying i would be unhappy playing to concert piano standard. That is what i want, i just couldn't see it at the time as i was too engrossed in midi.
> I would be seriously happy being able to play the piano at that standard, i mean, who the hell would be unhappy.
> I don't get you lot lmao


If you had chosen a different path you may now be sitting here as a concert pianist saying to yourself “I wish I had learned midi” 😀


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## Ivan M. (Jul 19, 2020)

Think about this, there's a difference between liking an *idea* vs liking doing something just because you *love* *doing* it.
Wanting to be a great performer is a bit of a status wish, vs learning a hard piece just because you love it actually becoming a performer.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

Levon said:


> If you had chosen a different path you may now be sitting here as a concert pianist saying to yourself “I wish I had learned midi” 😀


Can you all please try and understand what i am saying.How hard is it to understand.

I should have kept up the piano playing AS WELL AS the getting into midi and electronics


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

Just stop tying to analise anything.
I should have kept up plaing the piano while i was doing everything else that i was doing in my life AT THAT TIME!
Understand THAT!


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## InLight-Tone (Jul 19, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> I'm sure a Hans Zimmer cooking show would be amazing!


I'd rather see a Hans Zimmer get's in shape show...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

Look, this is the bottom line.
I stopped classical piano lessons to learn guitar, I should have learnt both at the same time not stop one to learn the other.
I should have carried on learning piano AND guitar and not stopped them both to learn midi.

Those are basically the bad choices i made. I could have learnt it all at the same time not stop one or two to learn the third.

What can't you understand about that simple phrase.


----------



## Arthur Lewis (Jul 19, 2020)

If I were you, Keith, I’d probably just unwatch the thread at this point. I think it’s no longer just about your actual experience; it’s about the questions you’ve raised, other people’s experiences, advice for other people, etc. It seems very unlikely that everyone else who posts in the thread is going to wade through 9 pages of confusion and clarification, so you’re probably just going to keep being/feeling misunderstood...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

Arthur Lewis said:


> If I were you, Keith, I’d probably just unwatch the thread at this point. I think it’s no longer just about your actual experience; it’s about the questions you’ve raised, other people’s experiences, advice for other people, etc. It seems very unlikely that everyone else who posts in the thread is going to wade through 9 pages of confusion and clarification, so you’re probably just going to keep being/feeling misunderstood...


To be honest, it's just easier to delete the whole thing as people are just not listening to what i am saying lol


----------



## MartinH. (Jul 19, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> To be honest, it's just easier to delete the whole thing as people are just not listening to what i am saying lol


You can't delete your thread, but you can edit a more clear version of what you wanted to convey into your thread opener post. 
Try not to think too much about it. These are topics not everyone will agree on, no big deal imho.


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## Ivan M. (Jul 19, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Just stop tying to analise anything.
> I should have kept up plaing the piano while i was doing everything else that i was doing in my life AT THAT TIME!
> Understand THAT!



Sorry, didn't mean to be rude. I speak from my own self reflection. I too regret not spending more time practicing and taking classes. Some of it I made right years later, much later than I should have learned. But also realized I don't really care that much about playing. Though I am very happy to be able to play some hard pieces, I only truly care about creating.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

Ivan M. said:


> Though I am very happy to be able to play some hard pieces, I only truly care about creating.


Don't you think that goes hand in hand?
What i mean is, the better you are at an instrument, the better understanding you have of that instrument which will give you a better creative ability for that instrument.
I firmly believe that even if some people will disagree with that.
Yes, i can write for the piano way above my playing ability but, if i could play like Chopin or Liszt, surely i would be able to write like that.
I really do believe that. Some don't. That's up to them.


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## goonman (Jul 19, 2020)

I think I understand the OP thoughts about where he is and the wisdom he intended to impart pretty well. In many ways his story mirrored my own and the conclusions he drew were similar to my own. If we're old enough to have enough life behind us when we look back we all have learned to cope, justify and sigh at the present result even though we are a culmination of the good and bad of our choices. The challenge is somehow believing that we'd make a different choice if we had it to do all over again (or "make it right" as the Series DARK suggest). 

Unfortunately we don't live long enough to pick up where we left off and finish the 10,000 hours it takes to master a particular endeavor let alone two or three aspirations. Everyday we're inundated by the appeal of technology that makes it easier to appear accomplished when in reality it's only the facade of programming.

So we've learned to be happy with what our mind produces even though it may not *always* be translated through disciplined/trained fingers.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

goonman said:


> I think I understand the OP thoughts about where he is and the wisdom he intended to impart pretty well. In many ways his story mirrored my own and the conclusions he drew were similar to my own.


I am the OP by the way lol


----------



## goonman (Jul 19, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I am the OP by the way lol


I'm actually replying to a number of earlier threads where some are suggesting you rethink your present declaration. In short I understand though my own experience what you mean. You just happened to post something before I pressed send...LOL


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 19, 2020)

goonman said:


> I'm actually replying to a number of earlier threads where some are suggesting you rethink your present declaration. In short I understand though my own experience what you mean. You just happened to post something before I pressed send...LOL


Oh sorry lol


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## NYC Composer (Jul 20, 2020)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Jay is obviously right in that it is better to have money than to be poor. There are a lot of people in the US not who are worried about how they are going to keep their homes and be able to eat. If they had money, they could sleep a lot better.
> 
> But money ALWAYS brings everybody happiness all by itself? I have not found that to be true. I went out with an heiress for a few years. Tens of millions of dollars. Not happy at all. Very screwed up family. Lots of people born into fortunes have similar situations.
> 
> ...


The richest guy I know presents as an extremely unhappy individual with no friends he hasn’t bought.

Money CAN buy you a lot of stuff and a lot of comfort, sure, but happiness? I dunno. I’m pretty happy now, but I was happy at 18, leaving college and scrounging for gigs. At 25 I moved to NYC, and after going through my meager savings I played on the street for a few months. I was happy then too.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 20, 2020)

In generally, i am a happy guy, i love life and i love having a laugh. That is most of my life not worrying about food or a roof over my head or paying bills.
Then i hit a really bad time in my life, it lasted about four years. I have mentioned previously, i had to sell it all, car bike gear the lot. I mentioned i was living on one packet of biscuits a day.
What i didn't mention is, some days i would have to go without electicity until my next little guv check arrived. What i was getting at the time was not enought to cover the cost of living in this country.
Another thing i didn't mention is, i was right on the verge of being made homeless and my guv wasn't interested i had clumps of hair falling out from the stress. This whole situation put me on the lowest i have ever been in my life. It was all to do with one thing. Money.

I am not saying this to get sympathy or any crap like that.
I am saying this to tell you a simple fact for me.
Money makes me happy. Money makes me not worry. It feeds me so i don't get ill, it gives me a roof over my head and it keeps me warm.

If i got loads of money and i walked past a guy in the street laying in a sleeping bag in the freezing cold, i would not hesitate in giving him what i could. I was nearly there. I tried to get work at the time, nobody wanted to know, it was all out of my hands.
Luckally, i managed to get out of that situation and get back on track.
I will never ever forget that situation all due to the fact of lack of money.

When ever someone tells me, money don't buy you happines, i can look them straight in the eye and say, oh yes it does.

I am talking the kind of money that keeps you in that state of not having to worry about the things i have mentioned.

As for being a millionaire, give me a few million quid and i will send you a picture of me on a carrabien beach saying wish you where here then i would gut up and take a leasurly stoll down to my recording studio, turn it all on and start creating some lovely music. If i have no friends to do it with that would be a shame but not the end of my world.

I have been married with loads of freinds and i have spent years living on my own with no one around me. I'm still happy either way as long as i am not worrying about money.


I really don't know why i keep putting all this here but if i can put across to anyone what i feel about money then so be it.

Don't ever tell me money can't make you happy cos that just depends on your frame of mind and your outlook on life. I just told you mine


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## Ashermusic (Jul 20, 2020)

OK, folks, I will give you all my PayPal and we will do an experiment. Everybody send me a lot of money and I will report back in a year as to where or not is has made me happier.


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## Loïc D (Jul 20, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Ok Keith. You seem to love progrock. So let me offer you this in stead of Bros. Brittain’s most excentric but good guitar player:



Oh, thanks !
I’m a huge fan of Discipline.
Absolutely crazy album and still very melodic !


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## doctoremmet (Jul 20, 2020)

Loïc D said:


> Oh, thanks !
> I’m a huge fan of Discipline.
> Absolutely crazy album and still very melodic !


Discipline is one of the best! Belew and Fripp are a machine on that album. Love it.


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## Polkasound (Jul 20, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> When ever someone tells me, money don't buy you happines, i can look them straight in the eye and say, oh yes it does.
> 
> I am talking the kind of money that keeps you in that state of not having to worry about the things i have mentioned.



Going from poverty to being able to pay the bills does bring happiness, but once you become wealthy enough that the worry goes away, the happiness money brings goes away with it. Some will try to recreate that feeling of happiness by buying houses, cars, and boats, but it just doesn't work. The ones who remain happy have loving families and friends at their side, which, ironically, are all things money cannot buy.


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## Michel Simons (Jul 20, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Discipline is one of the best! Belew and Fripp are a machine on that album. Love it.



If you guys haven't then you should check out the live album Absent Lovers. I believe it was the last concert they did in the 80's. They were so ridiculously tight by then it wasn't funny anymore.

Now that is what makes me happy. (Trying to stay somewhat OT.)


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 20, 2020)

Polkasound said:


> Going from poverty to being able to pay the bills does bring happiness, but once you become wealthy enough that the worry goes away, the happiness money brings goes away with it. Some will try to recreate that feeling of happiness by buying houses, cars, and boats, but it just doesn't work. The ones who remain happy have loving families and friends at their side, which, ironically, are all things money cannot buy.


But i am not talking about the things money cannot buy. I am talking about the things money can buy me.
I am not anyone else, the people that do all this 'research' haven't come across me.
I can guarantee you that beaing wealthy would make me a lot happier than i am now.
Do you know how i know this? Because i know me, no one else knows me. Full stop.

I have had love, i have been alone, i have been happy with both appart from when i was at that low point in my life.

You cannot possibly tell me personally that beiing wealthy would make me unhappy just like i couldn't possibly tell you the same thing.
We are all different in our outlook on life. I have had 62 years of experiance of life and my experiance tells me i would be bloody happy being wealthy 

That's it, simple as that. Why can't anyone accept that. The one person that really knows the answer is me yet no one accepts that.

Don't give me a reply based on your outlook on life, accept my outlook on life as my fact.

Seriously, i can't keep arguing this point.


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## Polkasound (Jul 20, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I can guarantee you that beaing wealthy would make me a lot happier than i am now.





Keith Theodosiou said:


> Why can't anyone accept that. The one person that really knows the answer is me yet no one accepts that.



I think it's just that we're all so used to hearing the hackneyed saying, "If I won the lottery, I'd be so happy!" But so many of us come to the realization in life that happiness is completely unrelated to anything tangible. It's purely a state of mind that is derived from the contentment of being loved. If you're unhappy when you have just enough money to get by, that unhappiness will haunt you no matter how much money you make, because wealth can't generate love. Money can fix financial problems, but not emotional ones. Suicidal people who win the lottery still end up killing themselves — the only difference is when you find them dangling at the end of a rope, the rope is tied to palm tree on a remote Caribbean island they bought for $50 million.

But maybe you truly are an exception to the rule. Maybe becoming wealthy would make you a lot happier. More power to you. All I'm saying is don't be surprised if people take it with a grain of salt and respond with kind of an _"oh, if he only knew"_ reaction.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 20, 2020)

Polkasound said:


> But maybe you truly are an exception to the rule. Maybe becoming wealthy would make you a lot happier. More power to you. All I'm saying is don't be surprised if people take it with a grain of salt and respond with kind of an _"oh, if he only knew"_ reaction.


And what about me when i hear all these people telling me their views on money and how it would make me feel and i just think "oh,if only they knew".
Well they don't "know" simply cos they don't "know" me.

I keep explaining to everyone that throughout my whole life with the exception of those four years, i have been a fun loving happy guy, I have had love, i have tasted sadness that love also brings. We all do.
I don't need love anymore, i don't crave it, it either comes to me or it don't. 
Having a fat bank account would not change me as a person, i have always known this since i was young. If i have money or not, i will walk around in a pair of jeans and trainers and t-shirt. I would have a nice house, not a mansion, just a nice house with plenty of land around it so i can have my own top of the range studio in there .
When a new big fat expensive synth comes out, i drive to the music shop,buy it,take it home,plug it in and turn the volume up to No.11. Then i will plug in my Gibson Les Paul '58 vintage guitar (why a '58 and not a '59? cos '58 is the year i was born lol) and turn that up to No.11.
I would also like to see the world in my lifetime, (that i know is never going to happen) to really live my life to the full. I have already explained all this before.
I would not have time to be unhappy if i was loaded, i want too much and i want to see too much and i would either do it all with someone close to me or i would do it all on my own, that really doesn't bother me. It did when i was younger, it doesn't now.

I am not like anyone else on this planet, i am me just like you are you.
As a Human being on this planet, we get one shot at life and i don't want to spend that life being an unhappy person, i enjoy life and if i had a fat bank account, i would enjoy it even more as it would enable me to do the things i really want to do in my life.
Everything i know about our world is through film, tv and school.
Wouldn't it be great to just be able to get on a plane and see it all with your own eyes. The pyramids, a humpback whale jumping out the water right in front of you, the Himalayas. You get the idea.

Having no money ties you down. It ties you down to a 9 to 5 job that you prob get bored with but you have to do it to survive. You do this for 50 odd years of your life to keep up payments on your house,car, food ,bills and so on. every day nearly all your life the same thing day in day out. Is that what it means to be a human.
Being wealthy unties you from that existence and gives you the chance to live life to the full.

If you as a person would be unhappy with all that, then that is down to you.

I know what i would rather have in my life and i would embrace that big fat bank account with open arms and a massive grin on my face thank you very much     

If anyone tells me that money wouldn't make me happy after what i have just said here, i will unwatch this thread and let you all get on with saying things you havn't got a clue about... ME!


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## SupremeFist (Jul 21, 2020)

As David Lee Roth sings on the last Van Halen album: "I've been rich and I've been poor / Rich is better, definitely better".


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## Michel Simons (Jul 21, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> If anyone tells me that money wouldn't make me happy after what i have just said here, i will unwatch this thread and let you all get on with saying things you havn't got a clue about... ME!



Damn, now I am tempted...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 21, 2020)

Michel Simons said:


> Damn, now I am tempted...


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## schiing (Jul 21, 2020)

I'm going to call my new lecture on how to convince people online "Do Not Make the Same Mistakes Keith Theodosiou Did!"

(Please don't take it literally, it's just a quick joke - I'm not actually accusing you of making mistakes. If anything, I have the greatest sympathy for the way you seem to be eternally stuck in the inner lane of this wretched roundabout of a thread!)


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 21, 2020)

schiing said:


> I'm going to call my new lecture on how to convince people online "Do Not Make the Same Mistakes Keith Theodosiou Did!"
> 
> (Please don't take it literally, it's just a quick joke - I'm not actually accusing you of making mistakes. If anything, I have the greatest sympathy for the way you seem to be eternally stuck in the inner lane of this wretched roundabout of a thread!)


Maybe i should have titled it "Do Not Make The Same Bad Choices As I Did" but then,would it have made any difference lol


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## MGdepp (Jul 21, 2020)

The “wisdom” that money doesn’t make happy is of course in part true. But in our days it is also part of a propaganda spread by the 1% of the population who possess about 50% of the wealth (this disparity is increasing as we speak). It may be true that money doesn’t make happy, but in the right dose, it surely helps to keep you fed, healthy a d served with most of the basic human necessities. It has become increasingly difficult to just accomplish that without selling yourself - many seem to forget that wage labor is sometimes (of course greatly depending on the exact conditions!!!) not that far away from slave labor! In that sense, we are currently rolling back towards slave labor, as big corporations are becoming the new normal, while small, independent businesses decrease.

But the most interesting thing in this thread to me is that some here seem to say that money is not important, that you don’t need the most expensive gear, that you need to train yourself in your instrument and possibly develop talent as a pen and paper composer, ... Stuff I would strongly agree with! But then look at the gods those same people pray to ... and it is easy to see the contradiction.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 21, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> big corporations are becoming the new normal, while small, independent businesses decrease.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 21, 2020)

This is where my life took a turn for the worst. I had been working for a family run print finishing company for about 15yrs. I satretd at the bottom on minimum wage but over the years, i learnt my skill and ended up on top rate of that firm. Then the big companies started getting all the work and they could afford to undercut us. We went bust. The next firm i went to,same thing,we went bust,then the next again untill eventually, i got a job at the BIG multimillion firm. I was there for 6 yrs untill they decided, lets get rid of all the top earners and take on young peaple to learn the skills and pay them peanuts so we can line our pockets even more.
That was my four years of hell after they kicked me out. I went to a tribunal with unfair dismissal. They said nothing we can do as they made you redundent claining your job was not needed anymore then they simply called my job by a different title so they could then re advertise my job to the young. This happened to all the older high payed skilled workers.

We couldn't get work cos one, all the small business's had gone bust and two, cos of our ages.

All i could get was a part time job as a cleaner on minimum wage which was enough to pay the rent and just about bills but not eat.

With just enough money, you just about survive, with no money you can't survive, with shitloads of money, you can do most of the things you've always dreamt of.
I pesonally have dreamt of a hell of a lot lol also i am a guitarist, a keyboard player and i write music. Those last 3 things alone cost an arm and a leg. I say i would love being wealthy through my own experiances in life. No one elses.


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## Polkasound (Jul 21, 2020)

When I talk about "love" I'm not talking about needing to be married or anything like that. I'm talking about the love within yourself — a feeling of self-worth that makes you the happiest you can be whether you're rich or poor. It's not something you can get from the world; it's a love inside you that you give to the world.



Keith Theodosiou said:


> If anyone tells me that money wouldn't make me happy after what i have just said here, i will unwatch this thread and let you all get on with saying things you havn't got a clue about... ME!



True story: Right now, I literally could be a millionaire. I could be living in a big house with a young, attractive, thin, blonde wife. I could be vacationing in Hawaii. I could have car service, vacation properties, a huge RV, and the financial freedom to build the studio of my dreams.

I turned it all down, because the multi-millionaire who wanted to marry me had a drinking problem. Even though we loved each other very much, her drinking was sapping too much happiness out of my life. When I discovered what the problem was, I put all of my effort into helping her quit, but she declined to get help. I had to break up with her. I'm now collecting a pittance of pandemic unemployment and watching COVID-19 destroy my upcoming Oktoberfest season, but my happiness is still fully intact.

My point is to say that nobody's disagreeing that you believe money would make you a lot happier. Like you said, we're all different. But don't be upset if people have the opinion that if you're not happy enough now, there's something _intangible_ missing in your life that money can't buy. It's just another opinion, that's all. Hopefully you can calmly disagree with that opinion without needing to place the whole thread on ignore. Your posts offer some insightful reading and I hope you'll continue.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 21, 2020)

Polkasound said:


> When I talk about "love" I'm not talking about needing to be married or anything like that. I'm talking about the love within yourself — a feeling of self-worth that makes you the happiest you can be whether you're rich or poor. It's not something you can get from the world; it's a love inside you that you give to the world.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am upset because people are telling me i wouldn't be happy with money. They are telling me or at least some are telling me. How would they know.
As for being a millionaire, i had the near same as you.
Being Greek, our tradition back then was arranged marriages. I was 17, her parents whe multi millionaires, in shipping or something.I turned her down. Why? to me, she was ugly as in not my type.
I couldn't marry just for the sake of money, no.
I am happy with myself,i am happy with my inner self, i enjoy life, im a happy bloke, i have a very open mind, i am not really a narrow minded person (which i was when i was younger but life experiance has changed all that) i love meeting people i'm not really an agressive person, i get on with anyone i meet, i adore female company, i love male company and to top it all off, i would love being loaded.
That is me. Just accept that, that's all i am asking  
You can tell me i MAY not be happy being loaded but i can tell you i WOULD be happy being loaded.
I have been that all my life, why the hell would money change that. This is what i am saying.
What can't anyone understand about my statement lol


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## MartinH. (Jul 21, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I have been that all my life, why the hell would money change that.


I don't think many said it would. At least I didn't take it that way. "Money doesn't buy happiness" doesn't mean "money makes you sad".




Polkasound said:


> But so many of us come to the realization in life that happiness is completely unrelated to anything tangible. It's purely a state of mind that is derived from the contentment of being loved.


And about two thirds or so genetics from what I heard. Maybe more. 




Polkasound said:


> If you're unhappy when you have just enough money to get by, that unhappiness will haunt you no matter how much money you make, because wealth can't generate love. Money can fix financial problems, but not emotional ones. Suicidal people who win the lottery still end up killing themselves — the only difference is when you find them dangling at the end of a rope, the rope is tied to palm tree on a remote Caribbean island they bought for $50 million.


If you're poor and unhappy you can tell yourself you're unhappy because you're poor. Getting out of poverty isn't easy, but conceivable. I could see there being a few rare situations where the people then get a lot of money through some coincidence, and realize that the escape from unhappiness isn't as straight forward as they thought it would be and that can be quite crushing. Reaching a goal and realizing it does absolutely nothing to make you happy, can be quite a disheartening experience. And realizing you're not happy in spite of living a live that others say they'd kill for, can lead to strong feelings of guilt.


Also this: 





Hedonic treadmill - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 21, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> I don't think many said it would. At least I didn't take it that way. "Money doesn't buy happiness" doesn't mean "money makes you sad".


Ok look at it this way. I want an Audi R8, a nice white one. I walk into a showroom and i say, "i want that one there" and pay them the money, i then get in that car and drive it away. I am now driving down the road with a big fat grin on my face.
I then drive that car to a music shop and say to them, "i want that big fat synth" and pay them the money.
Now i'm driving down the road with TWO big fat grins on my face.

That money just bought me happiness.
I am saying money would buy me happines. Not anyone else, just me cos i know me. I don't know how anyone else would be. That is impossible for me to know.

Shall i go on or do you get the picture lol


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 21, 2020)

I really do think it's time to leave this thread alone. I just can't get my point across any simpler than i have already.
Lets all just move on lol


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## Dear Villain (Jul 21, 2020)

the monk who sold his ferrari - Google Search


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 21, 2020)

Dear Villain said:


> the monk who sold his ferrari - Google Search


Yeah but what is that about, it has nothing to do with me. It's about someone else lol


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## Polkasound (Jul 21, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I am upset because people are telling me i wouldn't be happy with money. They are telling me or at least some are telling me. How would they know.



I think what people are saying is that you can only be happy with wealth if you were happy before you had it, because no amount of money on earth can make you love yourself any more than you already do. People are just expressing the opinion that they don't agree with you. If an alcoholic said, "I don't need any help. I can quit whenever I want to," the alcoholic will insist they know best, but their family, friends, and AA counselor may disagree. Everyone will have an opinion.




Keith Theodosiou said:


> That money just bought me happiness.



But how will you feel after you have a showroom full of expensive cars a wall of synths? My belief is that if you won the lottery and bought all that stuff, the joy of being financially secure would fade, the luxury vacations would become routine, and the expensive studio toys would give you no more joy than the ones you have now. You'd revert to the same exact level of happiness you're at now, because it's my belief that happiness is not in any way proportional to wealth. That's not an opinion worth getting upset about, is it?


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 21, 2020)

Polkasound said:


> I think what people are saying is that you can only be happy with wealth if you were happy before you had it, because no amount of money on earth can make you love yourself any more than you already do. People are just expressing the opinion that they don't agree with you. If an alcoholic said, "I don't need any help. I can quit whenever I want to," the alcoholic will insist they know best, but their family, friends, and AA counselor may disagree. Everyone will have an opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok i give up, having shitloads of money would make me the most miserable guy on this planet.
There. 
I am now going to unwatch this thread cos i hav'e had enough of it.
You lot may carry on to your hearts content


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## Polkasound (Jul 21, 2020)

Keith, I don't understand what you're getting upset over. If someone looked at a mountain and said, "I can climb it," and other people said, "No, you can't," no one is right or wrong until the person makes the attempt. Until then, all people have are their opinions. That's all that's happening here; the sharing of opinions.


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## MartinH. (Jul 21, 2020)

I respect your wish to withdraw from the thread for your own sanity's sake, so I won't tag or quote you, but I don't think most posts here are worth getting that defensive about, at least I didn't intend mine to be. I wasn't trying to argue with you, sorry if I phrased things poorly. Peace!


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## NYC Composer (Jul 28, 2020)

I think you should hook up with Polkasound’s ex.


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## Polkasound (Jul 28, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> I think you should hook up with Polkasound’s ex.



There's time to think about it. She doesn't get released from the correctional facility until fall. (Serving two years for OWI #6).


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## NYC Composer (Jul 28, 2020)

Hey, if money's the problem, you got to take the good with the bad. Plus I'll bet she mixes a mean cocktail, and probably isn't boring until she's schnockered.


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## MeloKeyz (Jun 1, 2022)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> That is probably why i posted this, i thought i knew it all when i was younger


Fast Forward, two years later, I read this post and all I wanna say is that regretting is the worst unpractical behavior in human beings and you really have nothing to do about the past. The past is past and you need to figure out what you wanna do with the rest of your life. Based on what I read, you have top skills in midi arrangement and orchestration that every aspiring composer hope to achieve, just don't underestimate that.


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## jononotbono (Jun 1, 2022)

What mistakes have you done recently? 😂


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## jononotbono (Jun 1, 2022)

Mistakes I have made...

Didn't leave the Isle of Wight
Got a band together with the best I could find (limited on IOW)
Spent years being an assistant for various people... (Amazing stories... I can never tell)
Spent years getting great at playing Guitar... when no one gives a fuck about Guitar anymore
(Jokes aside... I play Guitar cause I fucking love it. Fuck the world)
Didn't break noses when needing paying in every venue

Recent mistakes...

Listening to faceless people on the Internet
Sharing my booze with strangers 😂


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## liquidlino (Jun 1, 2022)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Ok look at it this way. I want an Audi R8, a nice white one. I walk into a showroom and i say, "i want that one there" and pay them the money, i then get in that car and drive it away. I am now driving down the road with a big fat grin on my face.
> I then drive that car to a music shop and say to them, "i want that big fat synth" and pay them the money.
> Now i'm driving down the road with TWO big fat grins on my face.
> 
> ...


The research into hedonic outcomes is pretty clear. Those big fat grins last a few days/weeks and then evaporate and you're back to the same level of happiness as pre-purchase/success/achievement. When asked pre-exam results how much happier people would be if they got straight A-s, every person overestimated the effect, and when measured post-results even those that got the straight A-s recorded much lower than predicted immediate happiness improvement, and after two weeks the happiness had largely renormalised to the pre-results happiness level.

For money, same thing. When asked, nearly everyone will answer that if they earned double what they're on now, they'd be substantially happier. Research again shows that this isn't the case. The new income quickly normalises, and happiness levels return to pre-income improvement. Once past a basic level of income that grants security/health/ability to meet basic needs and some level of individual pursuits, then additional money tends not to make any difference to an individuals happiness.

The things that do improve happiness? really it comes down to appreciating what you already have, and enjoying them for what they are, not lusting after what they are not. Be that musical skills, income, cars, sporting achievements, career etc etc. Basically, getting off the hedonic treadmill.


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## JohnG (Jun 1, 2022)

Money helps a lot with happiness. If you’re hopelessly wrong-headed, maybe no amount is enough? As @liquidlino wrote, some people adjust quickly to a new level and pant for more. 

On the other hand, if you make some money and you’re not silly about life, and especially if you’ve been poor, it’s possible to appreciate indefinitely one’s financial stability and the absence of the relentless, corrosive worry of poverty.

Plus it’s a treat to have nice instruments and all that, as the OP has lovingly repeated.


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## tmhuud (Jun 2, 2022)

jononotbono said:


> Mistakes I have made...
> Sharing my booze with strangers 😂


Oh. C'mon. Thats always worth good Karma points.


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## telecode101 (Jun 2, 2022)

JohnG said:


> Money helps a lot with happiness.


It really depends on the person I think. There is (well was!) a guy I worked with a long time. We are in IT and making pretty good income for what we do. He decided to give it all up and move to a mountain in South East Asia and grow stuff and live on 1/20th of what he was making. I visit him once every few decades. He grumbles about money and has his problems, but he's much happier than living the life in a big city in the West. Commuting. Dealing with office politics. Toxic management culture. All that stuff you gotta do for decades in the labor force, so you can retire and play golf because you gotta ride around in a golf cart cause your knees and feet are failing, but don't really want to admit you are getting old, so you show the world you play golf now. ;0)


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## bunjaonkvr (Jun 2, 2022)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Dramatic title yes but seriously, read this if you are a young musician/composer.
> 
> This is what I should be at my age: (62, i started music when i was 6)
> 
> ...


Im glad i read this 
You sound a lot like me 
Only that i started singing at age 7 
And sang with some people 
Started keyboards in teen and 20s stopped for computers late 20s 
Early 30s acoustic guitar 
Late 30s piano/keyboard again 
Early 40s (acoustic guitar again ) 

The problem here is two things sticking with one thing enough until you get proficiant and maybe some self esteem with me anyway 

And the other problem is wanting to sound like all the music you love 

I too loved pop early on
Then computers came i wanted to make trance and stopped singing 
Realised i didnt love dance music as much as pop and started singing playing guitar again 

And electronic music i really love is synthave which pulls me back to the computer again

I think at least with me what im gonna do this time 

And listen mate you can do this two it doesnt matter if your 62 im 42 

I havent got time anymore 
So im gonna get awesome at one thing 
And all the other things im gonna do small bits and pieces of 

So that one thing ( okay two but its at the same time ) 
Is acoustic guitar and singing 
And the synths abd ableton live and all that are gonna be small bits to fit aroubd it im not gonna spend that much time 

Because otherwise youll be jack of all trades master of none 

And i maybe wrong but once you are proficiant at one instrument i think all the other bits like composing songwriting fit around it no ? 


And also we have to stop wanting to sound like all the music we love because it changes so much 

Pick an idea and style and go with it until your really good at that shit and the. Maybe change 


So im kinda writing this all to myself 

As i think i still have some time 

If i dont get sidetracked with 


“Oh i wanna use computers now exclusivly
“ no changes my mind guitar 
“Nope i mean it this time i mean piano 

Ive sold four synths three pianos 
And five acoustic guitars in the last ten years 
My kids laugh and say dad u always say your gonna stick with one 

Now i have a piano a acoustic and a computer that i will never selll any

But im sticking with the acoustic 

And because im ok on the keys and i know my way around a computer 
Those bits will be there when i need them

Hope i made sense as i type awlful 

But great post man 

Stick and master one or two simple things ( like singing and guitar or piano and recording youraekd 
I am and i challege you to do the same 

We are not finished come on!


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## jononotbono (Jun 3, 2022)

tmhuud said:


> Oh. C'mon. Thats always worth good Karma points.


Maybe. I never share my booze for karma but I always share my booze. I know, I'm weak! 😂Especially with strangers.


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