# Spitfire BBCSO control surface for DAWS using TouchOSC on IOS and Android devices



## Graham Wayne

*UPDATE: NEW VERSION NOW AVAILABLE WHICH SUPPORTS BBCSO V1.20 TECHNIQUES (MUTED BRASS) - **SEE THIS POST BELOW FOR DETAILS**, DOWNLOAD LINKS AND INSTRUCTIONS ON USAGE*

I recently invested in Spitfire’s BBCSO, and while it’s great to use, the interface isn't always as good to use as it is to look at. Some things – like tiny icons – I can’t do anything about, but I have addressed a few really common issues in a way that perhaps others might also find useful: the selection of articulations, and the real-time input of controller data - without having to have the VSTi interface open.

My solution is a simple set of pages hosted by TouchOSC (£5 to buy if you don’t have it) – it’s nothing fancy, just straightforward and self-explanatory, and should work in most DAWs including Cubase and Logic (the latter is untested as I don't have it), or directly with the BBCSO plugin if you have another way of running it e.g. the excellent Vienna Ensemble Pro, which I use on a slave PC with the entire orchestra loaded.

This interface doesn’t use OSC messages because the BBCSO plug-in doesn’t support them, so it’s purely a one-way MIDI system with no realtime visual feedback, but it makes it easy to change articulations on the fly, input performance data (expression, dynamics, vibrato, reverb etc), and modify the balances between all 20 (!) mics.

Here's what it looks like:





String section articulations - tabs for each section appear across the top of the screen






All the controllers are mapped - on this screen and the microphone tabs






And this X-Y pad makes performance quite tactile with the X-axis for expression and Y-axis for dynamics






...and a shocking number of microphones can be controlled here, assuming you have enough RAM.


Regarding cross-compatibility; I wrote this for my iPad, but I think it should work on Android devices too. However, as I don’t have one I can’t test it - do let me know if there are any problems on Android devices and I'll see if I can borrow one to find out why.

In use, selecting articulations is easier since all of them are available on one screen per section. Performance input can use either faders and rotary controllers, or the X-Y pad (x-axis is expression, y-axis is dynamics). All of the inputs can be recorded as automation data. The articulations are also consistent with the Cubase Expression Maps, part of the https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/posts/cubase-template-01 (Cubase BBCSO templates available on the Spitfire site), although you don’t need to use them with this TouchOSC control surface.

Some things to be aware of: TouchOSC will work wirelessly if set up that way, and this works fine for articulation changes and most control data inputs, but when I used multi-touch with the faders (e.g. expression and dynamics together) or the X-Y pad, the data stream suffered unworkable latency – a few packets from one fader/axis gets sent, followed by updates to the other fader/axis. This does not occur if you plug the tablet into the computer running your DAW via USB – the setup page in TouchOSC shows which connection is being used. (This problem might also be an artifact of my rather old iPad mini - perhaps newer devices are more sensitive or handle wireless connections more efficiently).

You will also need to install the free TouchOSC editor to transfer the template into the app on your tablet, and the equally free TouchOSC bridge (actually the Bome Midi Translator) to create midi ports for the PC (although you don't need to bridge on Mac hosts as the midi interface is built in to the OS). To get Cubase to ‘see’ the input, first run the TouchOSC bridge (which runs in the background), load Cubase, create a new Generic Remote in the Studio Setup and assign the TouchOSC Bridge midi ports as the input and output. I'm sorry I can't offer any guidance on setting up TouchOSC on Logic as I don't have a copy (or a Mac to run it on).

Finally, I should mention that I’ve referred to tablets as being the input device, but you could use this template on any Apple laptop with a touch screen, and iPhones or Android phones too. I just think faders would be too small to be useful on a phone, although perhaps the articulation buttons would be manageable, as would the X-Y pad.

All the best,
Graham Wayne

The files:

Spitfire Audio BBCSO control surface for DAWS with C3 as middle C
Spitfire Audio BBCSO control surface for DAWS with C4 as middle C (as per Spitfire's keyswitches)

SEE POST BELOW FOR FURTHER DETAILS INCLUDING WHICH VERSION TO DOWNLOAD


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## BassClef

Many thanks for this post. I do not have BBCSO but was going to investigate TouchOSC on my iPad for cc fader controls in various VIs.... possible XY pads as well. I use Logic and have the Logic remote app on my iPad and iPhone which is great as well, but does not have faders for cc sends.


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## harmaes

Thanks for sharing this!


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## emasters

Thank you!


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## Graham Wayne

BassClef said:


> Many thanks for this post. I do not have BBCSO but was going to investigate TouchOSC on my iPad for cc fader controls in various VIs.... possible XY pads as well. I use Logic and have the Logic remote app on my iPad and iPhone which is great as well, but does not have faders for cc sends.


 
Well, you start from a better position actually, because Logic does have OSC implemented and there's a good Logic template supplied with TouchOSC (well, it looks good - can't say how well it works) -with banks of faders, as I recall - although these will be channel faders I expect. You could mod the supplied template as an option, or build one pretty quickly. I'd be very interested to know if Logic returns OSC messages for plug-ins - that would be rather cool, actually.

I have to say the PC editor is rather crude, but considering how little it costs perhaps that's not a fair criticism. Anyway, it's possible the Mac version is better - the whole thing smacks of being written by Mac users for OSC apps, with the PC/MIDI version grudgingly added on as an afterthought by someone unfamiliar with PC application standards.


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## Anders Wall

ping @Spitfire Team @christianhenson @paulthomson shouldn't this be on your "The Page"
@Graham Wayne nice work!

Best,
Anders


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## Graham Wayne

Anders Wall said:


> ping @Spitfire Team @christianhenson @paulthomson shouldn't this be on your "The Page"
> @Graham Wayne nice work!
> 
> Best,
> Anders


Thanks Anders - appreciate the feedback


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## shayne.oneill

Just bumping this old thread to add that I got this template to work for Studio One, but first I had to shift all the keywitches down an octive. But after that , and adding a few little changes to my own likeing, it works great. Just remember on your midi lanes to set midi input to "all" so it can recieve info from both TouchOSC and your keyboard of choice.


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## Hadrian

Awesome info, thank you


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## Richard Bowling

Thanks for sharing!


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## Graham Wayne

shayne.oneill said:


> Just bumping this old thread to add that I got this template to work for Studio One, but first I had to shift all the keywitches down an octive. But after that , and adding a few little changes to my own likeing, it works great. Just remember on your midi lanes to set midi input to "all" so it can recieve info from both TouchOSC and your keyboard of choice.


Hi Shayne - sorry about the octave shift, but there's a conflict in midi note nomenclature, where Yamaha/Steinberg refer to MIDI note 60 (middle C) as C3, while Roland and others refer to this note as C4.

In fact, if you had downloaded the Cubase version (I assume you started with the Logic version) you could probably have saved some time, since the only difference between the Cubase and Logic versions are the note names i.e. the Cubase version starts at C-0, while the Logic version starts at C-1, shifting all the articulation commands up one octave.


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## shayne.oneill

Ah lol, that would have saved me some time. Thanks for the template anyway.


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## Graham Wayne

*NEW VERSION NOW AVAILABLE WHICH SUPPORTS BBCSO V1.20 TECHNIQUES (MUTED BRASS)*

I've created new versions of the two templates (and renamed them - I'll explain in a moment) to which I've added the new muted brass articulations (techniques). There's a small modification needed to the default trombones to get them to switch correctly, which I'll also explain here.

First of all, the new names: I inadvertently created some confusion (sorry Shayne) in calling the first templates "Cubase" and "Logic". I guess this suggested some technical difference between them but in fact the only difference is the keyswitch data they send out. Spitfire have adopted a naming convention where middle C is called C4 - the Roland nomenclature. I use Cubase, which uses the Yamaha convention of naming middle C as C3. This results in the wrong note name being sent to the BBCSO if I use the same names Spitfire made as defaults.

So there are now two new versions which I've called the C3 and the C4 version. If your DAW uses C3 for middle C, download that version - and vice versa. (A note for Logic users - I have read that you can change the middle C designation in the preferences, shifting the note names an octave in either direction). Anyway, that's the only difference between the two file versions, which are here:

Spitfire Audio BBCSO control surface for DAWS with C3 as middle C
Spitfire Audio BBCSO control surface for DAWS with C4 as middle C (as per Spitfire's keyswitches)

ONE IMPORTANT NOTE: The muted trombones use different keyswitches from the horns and trumpets. There isn't room in the template to create a different page for the trombones, so I simply changed the key designations in the Spitfire BBCSO interface. It's quite quick: just click on the articulation for any of the trombones e.g. 'LONG (MUTED), then click on the keyswitch widget arrow (circled) to pop up a list of all the keys:






In the trombones, the default setting for the 'Long (Muted)' articulation is G♯-1 - just change it to A♯-1 to work with the template as shown in the screenshot above - the selected note gets a red dot beside it. Similarly, change Staccatissimo (Muted) from A-1 to B-1, and Marcato (muted) from A♯-1 to C0. You need to do this for three instruments: Tenor Trombone, Trombones A3 and Bass Trombones A2, saving each one before moving to the next. To save them, click on the rather quaint little floppy disk icon:






Leave the name the same, click on save and overwrite the default preset - which doesn't overwrite the original instrument, but creates or overwrites the user preset if you have one. If you are creating a new DAW project, remember to load the user versions of the trombones rather than the default instruments, or the keyswitches will not work for the trombones.

Anyway, that's it for the new versions - hope you enjoy using them and of course if there are any issues just let me know.

Cheers,

Graham


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## Markrs

Graham Wayne said:


> *NEW VERSION NOW AVAILABLE WHICH SUPPORTS BBCSO V1.20 TECHNIQUES (MUTED BRASS)*
> 
> I've created new versions of the two templates (and renamed them - I'll explain in a moment) to which I've added the new muted brass articulations (techniques). There's a small modification needed to the default trombones to get them to switch correctly, which I'll also explain here.
> 
> First of all, the new names: I inadvertently created some confusion (sorry Shayne) in calling the first templates "Cubase" and "Logic". I guess this suggested some technical difference between them but in fact the only difference is the keyswitch data they send out. Spitfire have adopted a naming convention where middle C is called C4 - the Roland nomenclature. I use Cubase, which uses the Yamaha convention of naming middle C as C3. This results in the wrong note name being sent to the BBCSO if I use the same names Spitfire made as defaults.
> 
> So there are now two new versions which I've called the C3 and the C4 version. If your DAW uses C3 for middle C, download that version - and vice versa. (A note for Logic users - I have read that you can change the middle C designation in the preferences, shifting the note names an octave in either direction). Anyway, that's the only difference between the two file versions, which are here:
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HlLohfthpDZ4i2AMFFby4ALpJT-R6S-B/view?usp=sharing (Spitfire Audio BBCSO control surface for DAWS with C3 as middle C)
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pia2SfJEVEJcPiRoqGl30TAv-hqaN6S4/view?usp=sharing (Spitfire Audio BBCSO control surface for DAWS with C4 as middle C (as per Spitfire's keyswitches))
> 
> ONE IMPORTANT NOTE: The muted trombones use different keyswitches from the horns and trumpets. There isn't room in the template to create a different page for the trombones, so I simply changed the key designations in the Spitfire BBCSO interface. It's quite quick: just click on the articulation for any of the trombones e.g. 'LONG (MUTED), then click on the keyswitch widget arrow (circled) to pop up a list of all the keys:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the trombones, the default setting for the 'Long (Muted)' articulation is G♯-1 - just change it to A♯-1 to work with the template. Similarly, change Staccatissimo (Muted) from A-1 to B-1, and Marcato (muted) from A♯-1 to C0. You need to do this for three instruments: Tenor Trombone, Trombones A3 and Bass Trombones A2, saving each one before moving to the next. To save them, click on the little floppy disk icon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leave the name the same, click on save and overwrite the default preset - which doesn't overwrite the original instrument, but creates or overwrites the user preset if you have one. If you are creating a new DAW project, remember to load the user versions of the trombones rather than the default instruments, or the keyswitches will not work for the trombones.
> 
> Anyway, that's it for the new versions - hope you enjoy using them and of course if there are any issues just let me know.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Graham


This looks fantastic. I had a go at connecting TouchOSC via WiFi to Reaper but gave up. I will try it via USB cable, I also have Cubase so I will try it with that as well.


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## Graham Wayne

Markrs said:


> This looks fantastic. I had a go at connecting TouchOSC via WiFi to Reaper but gave up. I will try it via USB cable, I also have Cubase so I will try it with that as well.


Hi Mark - I have no experience with Reaper, but in Cubase the connection was pretty straightforward. You just need to install the TouchOSC bridge on your computer (assuming it's a PC - a Mac doesn't need it but this is helpful: https://hexler.net/docs/touchosc-configuration-connections-osc), run it by clicking on it, and then create a Generic Remote device in the Studio Setup, with the bridge as both in the input and output. Also if you're on a PC, make sure you right-click on the B icon in the system tray (down by the clock)...




...and turn on "enable USB connections". Once I had completed this setup, things started working straight away, without any hassle, so good luck...


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## octave music

Graham Wayne said:


> *NEW VERSION NOW AVAILABLE WHICH SUPPORTS BBCSO V1.20 TECHNIQUES (MUTED BRASS)*
> 
> I've created new versions of the two templates (and renamed them - I'll explain in a moment) to which I've added the new muted brass articulations (techniques). There's a small modification needed to the default trombones to get them to switch correctly, which I'll also explain here.
> 
> First of all, the new names: I inadvertently created some confusion (sorry Shayne) in calling the first templates "Cubase" and "Logic". I guess this suggested some technical difference between them but in fact the only difference is the keyswitch data they send out. Spitfire have adopted a naming convention where middle C is called C4 - the Roland nomenclature. I use Cubase, which uses the Yamaha convention of naming middle C as C3. This results in the wrong note name being sent to the BBCSO if I use the same names Spitfire made as defaults.
> 
> So there are now two new versions which I've called the C3 and the C4 version. If your DAW uses C3 for middle C, download that version - and vice versa. (A note for Logic users - I have read that you can change the middle C designation in the preferences, shifting the note names an octave in either direction). Anyway, that's the only difference between the two file versions, which are here:
> 
> Spitfire Audio BBCSO control surface for DAWS with C3 as middle C
> Spitfire Audio BBCSO control surface for DAWS with C4 as middle C (as per Spitfire's keyswitches)
> 
> ONE IMPORTANT NOTE: The muted trombones use different keyswitches from the horns and trumpets. There isn't room in the template to create a different page for the trombones, so I simply changed the key designations in the Spitfire BBCSO interface. It's quite quick: just click on the articulation for any of the trombones e.g. 'LONG (MUTED), then click on the keyswitch widget arrow (circled) to pop up a list of all the keys:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the trombones, the default setting for the 'Long (Muted)' articulation is G♯-1 - just change it to A♯-1 to work with the template as shown in the screenshot above - the selected note gets a red dot beside it. Similarly, change Staccatissimo (Muted) from A-1 to B-1, and Marcato (muted) from A♯-1 to C0. You need to do this for three instruments: Tenor Trombone, Trombones A3 and Bass Trombones A2, saving each one before moving to the next. To save them, click on the rather quaint little floppy disk icon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leave the name the same, click on save and overwrite the default preset - which doesn't overwrite the original instrument, but creates or overwrites the user preset if you have one. If you are creating a new DAW project, remember to load the user versions of the trombones rather than the default instruments, or the keyswitches will not work for the trombones.
> 
> Anyway, that's it for the new versions - hope you enjoy using them and of course if there are any issues just let me know.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Graham


HI Graham-
Great job with this template. I'm curious, is there a functional reason you utilized the keyswitches via MIDI notes as opposed to the channel 32 UACC data?
Thank you.


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## Graham Wayne

octave music said:


> HI Graham-
> Great job with this template. I'm curious, is there a functional reason you utilized the keyswitches via MIDI notes as opposed to the channel 32 UACC data?
> Thank you.


As far as I'm aware, UACC has never been properly implemented in the BBCSO. There is no mention of it in the manual at all, there are no default UACC mappings, and people who have tried to use it and set up custom mappings appear to have had problems with it - see https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360010869198-UACC-with-New-Player-BBCSO- or this https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360014274217-BBCSO-Core-UACC

I do not believe it would have been practical to suggest that people had to set up their own CC mappings for all the articulations to use TouchOSC, when they can use a keyswitch-mapped template straight out of the box.


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## octave music

Graham Wayne said:


> As far as I'm aware, UACC has never been properly implemented in the BBCSO. There is no mention of it in the manual at all, there are no default UACC mappings, and people who have tried to use it and set up custom mappings appear to have had problems with it - see https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360010869198-UACC-with-New-Player-BBCSO- or this https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360014274217-BBCSO-Core-UACC
> 
> I do not believe it would have been practical to suggest that people had to set up their own CC mappings for all the articulations to use TouchOSC, when they can use a keyswitch-mapped template straight out of the box.


Yes! That's right! Thank you for reminding me. I too contacted Spitfire about this...I had forgotten about this....and told them it was ridiculous that I had to go through EVERY preset and setup UACC with the correct assignment [using spitfire's UACC chart] and then RESAVE every preset as a "user preset". Well...I did that. Didn't take quite as long as I thought it would. I prefer UACC so much more than keyboard assigned because they are immune to transposing on the midi track. But, yes, I totally understand why you went with the default keyswitch assignments...since that is how they ship it. How LONG could it possibly take for spitfire to have done the work that I did to make BBCSO UACC ready [see screenshot]? I love love love Spitfire...but this was a head scratcher. I also had to do this with Abbey Road One.


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## PaulieDC

Graham Wayne said:


> ...Anyway, that's it for the new versions - hope you enjoy using them and of course if there are any issues just let me know.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Graham


This is all amazing Graham, thank you!


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## wsimpson

I am pretty new to all of this but HOLY COW! $5 and about an hour later and I can adjust articulations and expression, dynamics, and vibrato on my entire BBC Pro Orchestra using an old Android tablet? Really? I can't thank you enough!!!


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## Sjamus

Thank you so much for your template. I’ve got three old iPads in use now. Ditched my old Mackie MCU in favor of OSC and Logic remote. It just works and your template for BBCSO made me invest in Touch OSC. I have Lemur and Mididesigner Pro but never really understood the way they work. To me Touch OSC is easier to understand. Just purchased EW Choir during the sale. Anybody know if there is a EWC Touch OSC template I could buy for that library? I know I could try making my own, but I’m foremost a musician and not a programmer.


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## BasariStudios

Thank You Sir! Can you please let me know
where do i Donate or Buy this?


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## Graham Wayne

BasariStudios said:


> Thank You Sir! Can you please let me know
> where do i Donate or Buy this?


Hi BarsariStudios. Thanks for the kind and thoughtful offer, but you really don't need to buy it or make a donation. Like other musicians, I've enjoyed info, templates and help that has been given freely to the community, and this is my way of saying a very small thank you.


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## BasariStudios

Graham Wayne said:


> Hi BarsariStudios. Thanks for the kind and thoughtful offer, but you really don't need to buy it or make a donation. Like other musicians, I've enjoyed info, templates and help that has been given freely to the community, and this is my way of saying a very small thank you.


Thank You!


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## Mavros

Many thanks I was just searching for a way to get all articulations switches accesible with only 61 keys for instruments with a big range and found the link to this post. That is solved by the TouchOSC app and your great layout but the XYgrid also solves my second issue of combined expression and modulation. If you have two iPads you have the functionalities of an Streamdeck and a multi fader controller which would probably cost €500 for a very low investment.


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## Graham Wayne

Mavros said:


> Many thanks I was just searching for a way to get all articulations switches accesible with only 61 keys for instruments with a big range and found the link to this post. That is solved by the TouchOSC app and your great layout but the XYgrid also solves my second issue of combined expression and modulation. If you have two iPads you have the functionalities of an Streamdeck and a multi fader controller which would probably cost €500 for a very low investment.


Actually, if you have a decent size smartphone running either IOS or Android, you don't need a second iPad. I use the iPad for articulation selection since you need a reasonable size touchscreen to hit the right button, but the X/Y grid works fine on a phone!


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## DCPImages

Do it all on one screen  it is actually really easy. 

Using TouchOSC ‘Touch Editor’ I setup a single ipad screen that has an XY Pad on the left (CC1 and CC21 vibrato) and a slider CC11 and 24 push buttons for articulations on the right (I used to use stream deck for this). 

I made a variation of this for my iPhone, which also is extremely useable.

If you really want to get fancy, you can simply add separate pages adapted for Woods, Strings, Brass and Percussion. You don’t have to place the buttons in order, so you can, for example, easily group the shorts separately from the longs. 

Hope this helps 

Claude


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## molemac

DCPImages said:


> Do it all on one screen  it is actually really easy.
> 
> Using TouchOSC ‘Touch Editor’ I setup a single ipad screen that has an XY Pad on the left (CC1 and CC21 vibrato) and a slider CC11 and 24 push buttons for articulations on the right (I used to use stream deck for this).
> 
> I made a variation of this for my iPhone, which also is extremely useable.
> 
> If you really want to get fancy, you can simply add separate pages adapted for Woods, Strings, Brass and Percussion. You don’t have to place the buttons in order, so you can, for example, easily group the shorts separately from the longs.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> Claude


Any chance of sharing it ?


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## DCPImages

molemac said:


> Any chance of sharing it ?


Yes, no problems. Once I get back to my computer I will add an attachment.


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## DCPImages

DCPImages said:


> Yes, no problems. Once I get back to my computer I will add an attachment.


OK. Here you go. My TouchOSC template for BBCSO is attached as a zip file in case it is of use.

The template has 3 pages (images attached), but most things can be done on the first page. You access the 3 pages using the 3 buttons across the top (BBC keyswitches, BBC Percusion, DCPImages Chromatic). The pictures are probably self-explanatory, but I have added explanations below in case it helps.

*Page 1 BBCSO Instrumental Controls*
* The left of the page has sliders and an XYPad. The XY Pad sliders are also separated out above in case that becomes more convenient or to help with midilearn.
* The right of the page has three columns labelled Woodwinds, Brass and Strings. These are the BBCSO articulations.
* There is a little redundancy here because the keyswitches for the different groups are the same, but the labels help you to see what articulation you are triggering. Most keyswitches are shared with several instruments. Where they vary you will see the a second name listed For example, Falls and Runs in woodwinds only apply to Piccolos. The keyswitches for the Cimbassos (Cbo) are non-standard, so while they use the same keys, their articulations are listed in orange. Same goes for the Trombones (Tb). Keyswitches marked with a star such as multi-tongue* only apply to certain instruments.
* Towards the centre are keys labelled from C0 to C7 these are midi notes. I find them useful to check that everything is connected and to confirm the octave range of the loaded instrument. CC64 typically triggers the sustain.

*Page 2 BBCSO Percussion Controls*
* The lower left of the page shows the sliders that are used in BBCSO Percission. Not all sliders apply to all instruments. For example, instruments which play Rolls usually require 'CC17 release' as does Bibisgliando for harp.
* The right contains midi note pads (from notes C2 to B5) to play percussion, but keep in mind that iPad/TouchOSC does not handle velocity well so you will probably prefer to use your keyboard or edit velocities later.
* The buttons outlines in blue are the articulations. Many articulations are shared so the instruments are grouped and labelled in Yellow below. Some only apply to single instruments and are marked (eg Hits Damped# for Tubular Bells; Vibraphone* only has hits; Harp has GlissFX and Bibisgliando*). Note that there is also a button next to Harp to set the direction of the Gliss (UP or DOWN). This is arbitrarily attached to CC3 and you will need to midilearn this in the BBCSO Plugin.
* The buttons outlined in purple are for the untuned percussion.

*Page 3 Chromatic keys*
* This set is generic and can be used with any plugin.
* Blue keyswitches are for articulations from C-2 to B-1.
* Red keys are chromatic notes from C0 to C8 in case you want to enter musical notes. Elsewhere I have adapted these keys for different scales (including Akebono, Double Harmonic, Major & Minor Pentatonic etc). I have not included these here to avoid confusion, but feel free to make your own modifications.
* Because TouchOSC does not handle velocity well, you would probably prefer to enter notes from a keyboard.

I find this system works really well and is very portable, which is good because in normal times I do a lot of travelling. You can connect your iPad to your computer with Bluetooth, But I recommend USB.

Hope this is useful,
David


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## molemac

DCPImages said:


> OK. Here you go. My TouchOSC template for BBCSO is attached as a zip file in case it is of use.
> 
> The template has 3 pages (images attached), but most things can be done on the first page. You access the 3 pages using the 3 buttons across the top (BBC keyswitches, BBC Percusion, DCPImages Chromatic). The pictures are probably self-explanatory, but I have added explanations below in case it helps.
> 
> *Page 1 BBCSO Instrumental Controls*
> * The left of the page has sliders and an XYPad. The XY Pad sliders are also separated out above in case that becomes more convenient or to help with midilearn.
> * The right of the page has three columns labelled Woodwinds, Brass and Strings. These are the BBCSO articulations.
> * There is a little redundancy here because the keyswitches for the different groups are the same, but the labels help you to see what articulation you are triggering. Most keyswitches are shared with several instruments. Where they vary you will see the a second name listed For example, Falls and Runs in woodwinds only apply to Piccolos. The keyswitches for the Cimbassos (Cbo) are non-standard, so while they use the same keys, their articulations are listed in orange. Same goes for the Trombones (Tb). Keyswitches marked with a star such as multi-tongue* only apply to certain instruments.
> * Towards the centre are keys labelled from C0 to C7 these are midi notes. I find them useful to check that everything is connected and to confirm the octave range of the loaded instrument. CC64 typically triggers the sustain.
> 
> *Page 2 BBCSO Percussion Controls*
> * The lower left of the page shows the sliders that are used in BBCSO Percission. Not all sliders apply to all instruments. For example, instruments which play Rolls usually require 'CC17 release' as does Bibisgliando for harp.
> * The right contains midi note pads (from notes C2 to B5) to play percussion, but keep in mind that iPad/TouchOSC does not handle velocity well so you will probably prefer to use your keyboard or edit velocities later.
> * The buttons outlines in blue are the articulations. Many articulations are shared so the instruments are grouped and labelled in Yellow below. Some only apply to single instruments and are marked (eg Hits Damped# for Tubular Bells; Vibraphone* only has hits; Harp has GlissFX and Bibisgliando*). Note that there is also a button next to Harp to set the direction of the Gliss (UP or DOWN). This is arbitrarily attached to CC3 and you will need to midilearn this in the BBCSO Plugin.
> * The buttons outlined in purple are for the untuned percussion.
> 
> *Page 3 Chromatic keys*
> * This set is generic and can be used with any plugin.
> * Blue keyswitches are for articulations from C-2 to B-1.
> * Red keys are chromatic notes from C0 to C8 in case you want to enter musical notes. Elsewhere I have adapted these keys for different scales (including Akebono, Double Harmonic, Major & Minor Pentatonic etc). I have not included these here to avoid confusion, but feel free to make your own modifications.
> * Because TouchOSC does not handle velocity well, you would probably prefer to enter notes from a keyboard.
> 
> I find this system works really well and is very portable, which is good because in normal times I do a lot of travelling. You can connect your iPad to your computer with Bluetooth, But I recommend USB.
> 
> Hope this is useful,
> David


Awesome thanks a lot , I travel a lot too and although I have streamdeck for key switches I often dont have access to faders as my travel keyboard doesn’t have more than a mod wheel so this will really help Especially having it all on one page.


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## DCPImages

molemac said:


> Awesome thanks a lot , I travel a lot too and although I have streamdeck for key switches I often dont have access to faders as my travel keyboard doesn’t have more than a mod wheel so this will really help Especially having it all on one page.


Interestingly, I too used StreamDeck, but it has now been replaced by my iPad - more flexible, includes faders, don’t have to worry about mechanical buttons failing, packs flat, can easily back up & transfer. Having said that I’d like to see an update in TouchOSC that can use velocity and can do transport control and navigation, but I still haven’t been able to work that out


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## molemac

DCPImages said:


> Interestingly, I too used StreamDeck, but it has now been replaced by my iPad - more flexible, includes faders, don’t have to worry about mechanical buttons failing, packs flat, can easily back up & transfer. Having said that I’d like to see an update in TouchOSC that can use velocity and can do transport control and navigation, but I still haven’t been able to work that out


Is there a way to edit an existing layout on the ipad that I dont have the touchosc original file anymore . ie can I sync back from the ipad to the touchosc editor ? if not how could I transfer the touchosck layout from ipad to mac ?


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## DCPImages

The template I uploaded is fully editable. You need the TouchOSC Editor for your computer is free to download from Hexler. You also need the Hexler Bridge (a small app) that is used to transfer the the edited file from your computer to your iPad. That is how I made and edited these templates.


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## micrologus

Thank you for the templates!


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## molemac

DCPImages said:


> The template I uploaded is fully editable. You need the TouchOSC Editor for your computer is free to download from Hexler. You also need the Hexler Bridge (a small app) that is used to transfer the the edited file from your computer to your iPad. That is how I made and edited these templates.


Yes , I got that thanks. I have used the editor before. I just wanted to see if it’s possible to go the other way round.Transfer from IPad to TouchOSC editor. I have some old layouts on the iPad that I dont have the original TouchOSC file for. I would like to adapt them and add a few things


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## Mavros

Nicely compact like this. I just changed the XY Grid to channel 1 and 11 Modulation (Dynamics) and Expression as that is what I mostly use. Could it be that X and Y are switched in your original template using Vibrato and Dynamics? What would be very nice is if the buttons would highlight or change color upon pushing to know what the setting is but I did not find any option for that


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## DCPImages

molemac said:


> Yes , I got that thanks. I have used the editor before. I just wanted to see if it’s possible to go the other way round.Transfer from IPad to TouchOSC editor. I have some old layouts on the iPad that I dont have the original TouchOSC file for. I would like to adapt them and add a few things


I am not sure, but it will be a file and the file must be in the file system of the iPad and I am sure with a bit of poking around you could find it. I would start by looking in the folder that TouchOSC set when it was installed.


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## DCPImages

Mavros said:


> Nicely compact like this. I just changed the XY Grid to channel 1 and 11 Modulation (Dynamics) and Expression as that is what I mostly use. Could it be that X and Y are switched in your original template using Vibrato and Dynamics? What would be very nice is if the buttons would highlight or change color upon pushing to know what the setting is but I did not find any option for that


I did do a version where you have CC1 and Cc11 and also two XY pads and you can use either or both. There is something quirky about the software in that the X and Y seems to be reversed and you need to just for that when setting things up.


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## DCPImages

molemac said:


> Yes , I got that thanks. I have used the editor before. I just wanted to see if it’s possible to go the other way round.Transfer from IPad to TouchOSC editor. I have some old layouts on the iPad that I dont have the original TouchOSC file for. I would like to adapt them and add a few things


Hi Molemac. Yes, I just checked my iPad and there is a TouchOSC folder in the files on my iPad and in that folder are the template files. They have .touchOSC as a suffix. It should be easy for you to find the file you are looking for and send it back to your desktop computer for editing. 
Claude


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## andyhy

Markrs said:


> This looks fantastic. I had a go at connecting TouchOSC via WiFi to Reaper but gave up. I will try it via USB cable, I also have Cubase so I will try it with that as well.


Did you manage to get TouchOSC to control BBCSO in Reaper?


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## Markrs

andyhy said:


> Did you manage to get TouchOSC to control BBCSO in Reaper?


Nope, I gave up, and in the future I will look at using Open Stage Control as that doesn't rely on an app, just a web browser, plus it is a _lot _more powerful.


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## andyhy

Markrs said:


> Nope, I gave up, and in the future I will look at using Open Stage Control as that doesn't rely on an app, just a web browser, plus it is a _lot _more powerful.


Thanks for the update. I'll give TouchOSC a miss in that case. I'll be interested to hear how you get on with Open Stage Control. I need to spend more time writing but I have a weakness for exploring these solutions in case they improve on using the midi control knobs and sliders on my old Fantom G8 synth.


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## Markrs

andyhy said:


> Thanks for the update. I'll give TouchOSC a miss in that case. I'll be interested to hear how you get on with Open Stage Control. I need to spend more time writing but I have a weakness for exploring these solutions in case they improve on using the midi control knobs and sliders on my old Fantom G8 synth.


Will do, though might be worth exploring this thread:






Open Stage Control (Tutorial) - An alternative to Lemur and TouchOSC


Hi everyone! I've been using Open Stage Control for almost two years now (jeez, time flies). This application really improved my workflow as a composer. It’s an alternative to Lemur/TouchOSC. This is a free software developed by Jean-Emmanuel, available on Windows, OSX, Linux. It's quite a long...




vi-control.net





It is quite a bit of a rabbit hole, which is why I'm not exploring it just yet, but it is crazy what Open Stage Control can do.


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## andyhy

Markrs said:


> Will do, though might be worth exploring this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open Stage Control (Tutorial) - An alternative to Lemur and TouchOSC
> 
> 
> Hi everyone! I've been using Open Stage Control for almost two years now (jeez, time flies). This application really improved my workflow as a composer. It’s an alternative to Lemur/TouchOSC. This is a free software developed by Jean-Emmanuel, available on Windows, OSX, Linux. It's quite a long...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is quite a bit of a rabbit hole, which is why I'm not exploring it just yet, but it is crazy what Open Stage Control can do.


Sounds promising. Keep us posted.


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## andyhy

Markrs said:


> Will do, though might be worth exploring this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open Stage Control (Tutorial) - An alternative to Lemur and TouchOSC
> 
> 
> Hi everyone! I've been using Open Stage Control for almost two years now (jeez, time flies). This application really improved my workflow as a composer. It’s an alternative to Lemur/TouchOSC. This is a free software developed by Jean-Emmanuel, available on Windows, OSX, Linux. It's quite a long...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is quite a bit of a rabbit hole, which is why I'm not exploring it just yet, but it is crazy what Open Stage Control can do.


Not related to this thread but glad I spotted your SA Spring Sale comment about SSS. I hadn't planned to spend anything but the glitch or early access offer price or whatever it was on SSS Core was impossible to resist so I caved and put it in the cart as quick as I could before it disappeared. Even received that $20 voucher from Spitfire! So thank you Markrs and the VI Control forum.


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## DCPImages

andyhy said:


> Did you manage to get TouchOSC to control BBCSO in Reaper?


I tested the template I posted and it seems to work in reaper with Kontakt and Spitfire Epic strings. The setup I used was:
Start TouchOSC Bridge
Connect IPAD to computer by USB
Run OSC template on iPAD
then in
Reaper Preferences>midi devices>TouchOSC Bridge>enabled + control
then in track header:
1. Arm record
2. FX: VST3i Spitfire Originals Epic Strings (also tested Kontakt Albion)
3. IN FX: MIDI all channels

I did this as a test of concept and did not do thoroughly testing, but it seems that (a) midi notes and (b) CC controls and (c) articulations are all working.

At this point I have not tested BBCSO because it is a pain to activate in a new DAW (I am using a MACBOOK AIR M1 Apple silicon)

David


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## DCPImages

DCPImages said:


> I tested the template I posted and it seems to work in reaper with Kontakt and Spitfire Epic strings. The setup I used was:
> Start TouchOSC Bridge
> Connect IPAD to computer by USB
> Run OSC template on iPAD
> then in
> Reaper Preferences>midi devices>TouchOSC Bridge>enabled + control
> then in track header:
> 1. Arm record
> 2. FX: VST3i Spitfire Originals Epic Strings (also tested Kontakt Albion)
> 3. IN FX: MIDI all channels
> 
> I did this as a test of concept and did not do thoroughly testing, but it seems that (a) midi notes and (b) CC controls and (c) articulations are all working.
> 
> At this point I have not tested BBCSO because it is a pain to activate in a new DAW (I am using a MACBOOK AIR M1 Apple silicon)
> 
> David


I have now also tested BBCSO (AU Version) with the spitfire app running Reaper in ARM mode (Apple M1 Native) using touchOSC on my iPhone and it seems to work fine.


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## andyhy

DCPImages said:


> I tested the template I posted and it seems to work in reaper with Kontakt and Spitfire Epic strings. The setup I used was:
> Start TouchOSC Bridge
> Connect IPAD to computer by USB
> Run OSC template on iPAD
> then in
> Reaper Preferences>midi devices>TouchOSC Bridge>enabled + control
> then in track header:
> 1. Arm record
> 2. FX: VST3i Spitfire Originals Epic Strings (also tested Kontakt Albion)
> 3. IN FX: MIDI all channels
> 
> I did this as a test of concept and did not do thoroughly testing, but it seems that (a) midi notes and (b) CC controls and (c) articulations are all working.
> 
> At this point I have not tested BBCSO because it is a pain to activate in a new DAW (I am using a MACBOOK AIR M1 Apple silicon)


That sounds very promising thanks.


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## ElCampesino

@Graham Wayne , thanks for the work you put in this template. I made one myself for East West Symphonic Orchestra a while ago, so I know it can be quite a hassle.  

Haven't really put yours through any thourough work yet, but everything I did try worked out of the box. I got it up and running in reaper in no time at all. So thanks!


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## cmillar

Hello, I'm just becoming aware of this thread and have a couple of questions:

- will this work with MOTU DP and BBCSO?

- in the iOS app, can you program one button to trigger two articulations at the same time (both articulations working in combination) ?

Thanks! (I'm a current StreamPad user for DAW and notation control, and am curious as to TouchOCS and it's possibilities)


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## nibor

Graham Wayne said:


> *UPDATE: NEW VERSION NOW AVAILABLE WHICH SUPPORTS BBCSO V1.20 TECHNIQUES (MUTED BRASS) - **SEE THIS POST BELOW FOR DETAILS**, DOWNLOAD LINKS AND INSTRUCTIONS ON USAGE*
> 
> I recently invested in Spitfire’s BBCSO, and while it’s great to use, the interface isn't always as good to use as it is to look at. Some things – like tiny icons – I can’t do anything about, but I have addressed a few really common issues in a way that perhaps others might also find useful: the selection of articulations, and the real-time input of controller data - without having to have the VSTi interface open.
> 
> My solution is a simple set of pages hosted by TouchOSC (£5 to buy if you don’t have it) – it’s nothing fancy, just straightforward and self-explanatory, and should work in most DAWs including Cubase and Logic (the latter is untested as I don't have it), or directly with the BBCSO plugin if you have another way of running it e.g. the excellent Vienna Ensemble Pro, which I use on a slave PC with the entire orchestra loaded.
> 
> This interface doesn’t use OSC messages because the BBCSO plug-in doesn’t support them, so it’s purely a one-way MIDI system with no realtime visual feedback, but it makes it easy to change articulations on the fly, input performance data (expression, dynamics, vibrato, reverb etc), and modify the balances between all 20 (!) mics.
> 
> Here's what it looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> String section articulations - tabs for each section appear across the top of the screen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the controllers are mapped - on this screen and the microphone tabs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this X-Y pad makes performance quite tactile with the X-axis for expression and Y-axis for dynamics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and a shocking number of microphones can be controlled here, assuming you have enough RAM.
> 
> 
> Regarding cross-compatibility; I wrote this for my iPad, but I think it should work on Android devices too. However, as I don’t have one I can’t test it - do let me know if there are any problems on Android devices and I'll see if I can borrow one to find out why.
> 
> In use, selecting articulations is easier since all of them are available on one screen per section. Performance input can use either faders and rotary controllers, or the X-Y pad (x-axis is expression, y-axis is dynamics). All of the inputs can be recorded as automation data. The articulations are also consistent with the Cubase Expression Maps, part of the https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/posts/cubase-template-01 (Cubase BBCSO templates available on the Spitfire site), although you don’t need to use them with this TouchOSC control surface.
> 
> Some things to be aware of: TouchOSC will work wirelessly if set up that way, and this works fine for articulation changes and most control data inputs, but when I used multi-touch with the faders (e.g. expression and dynamics together) or the X-Y pad, the data stream suffered unworkable latency – a few packets from one fader/axis gets sent, followed by updates to the other fader/axis. This does not occur if you plug the tablet into the computer running your DAW via USB – the setup page in TouchOSC shows which connection is being used. (This problem might also be an artifact of my rather old iPad mini - perhaps newer devices are more sensitive or handle wireless connections more efficiently).
> 
> You will also need to install the free TouchOSC editor to transfer the template into the app on your tablet, and the equally free TouchOSC bridge (actually the Bome Midi Translator) to create midi ports for the PC (although you don't need to bridge on Mac hosts as the midi interface is built in to the OS). To get Cubase to ‘see’ the input, first run the TouchOSC bridge (which runs in the background), load Cubase, create a new Generic Remote in the Studio Setup and assign the TouchOSC Bridge midi ports as the input and output. I'm sorry I can't offer any guidance on setting up TouchOSC on Logic as I don't have a copy (or a Mac to run it on).
> 
> Finally, I should mention that I’ve referred to tablets as being the input device, but you could use this template on any Apple laptop with a touch screen, and iPhones or Android phones too. I just think faders would be too small to be useful on a phone, although perhaps the articulation buttons would be manageable, as would the X-Y pad.
> 
> All the best,
> Graham Wayne
> 
> The files:
> 
> Spitfire Audio BBCSO control surface for DAWS with C3 as middle C
> Spitfire Audio BBCSO control surface for DAWS with C4 as middle C (as per Spitfire's keyswitches)
> 
> SEE POST BELOW FOR FURTHER DETAILS INCLUDING WHICH VERSION TO DOWNLOAD


This is incredible! Such a lot of work! THANKS!!!!


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