# Cinematic Studio series and Expression Maps



## Grizzlymv (Feb 7, 2021)

Hi there,
For those using the Cinematic Studio series instruments (CSS, CSW, CSB, CSSS) and Cubase with the expression maps, anyone had any success using it properly? I tried to use the CC58 method, which almost work fine. All entries are set as Attributes and it works fine as long as you don't add the Legato or Sordino in the equation. In order to have a Sustain Legato and a Sustain non Legato, both would in theory need 1 CC58 at 8 + CC58 at 88 while the other one would need CC58 at 8 + CC58 at 83. If you'd like to use it as Sordino, then a third CC would have to be sent. Thing is, when multiple value are used, only the last one takes effect. and obviously, you can't have multiple articulation on the same note, so even if I keep legato on, legato off, sustain and sordino on and sordio off on their own entry, only the sustain will work as others aren't an articulation per say. So, it would change it live, but in the recording, it's not retained, therefore once you playback, it always default to Legato On and Sordino Off. 

The note on instead of controller could be an option, but I'd prefer to use the CC values if that's possible. I've used other tutorials in the past where it locks the legato to Marcato and Sustains only, so that means you don't enable/disable the legato, but you select Marcato or Sustain with or without legato. And that scenario excluded the sordino (or I'd have to duplicate the track and enforce Sordino on that one). 

I've been searching over the past few days about how to approach this properly, but all threads and solution I found so far doesn't fully address the above. Just wondering if anyone here had any success of doing so, and if so, if they are willing to share their receipe of success.  

Thanks in advance. 
Martin


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## yiph2 (Feb 7, 2021)

Have you looked at this?








How to create Expression Maps for Cinematic Studio Strings


And CS Solo Strings, and CS Brass, and CS2




medium.com


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## Grizzlymv (Feb 7, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> Have you looked at this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes. that's the one I used so far. but as I said, it kind of works, but it limits the legato to marc and sus only (which I can deal with), but if you want to deal with Con Sord, then you have to duplicate the track, and replicate the same, but this time, with Sordino On. 
I was looking for something that would easily allow to switch between all arts through CC58, but seamlessly allow to turn on / off the legato, sordino (as the UI allows) so I could keep it within 1 track rather than 2 (one sordino, one normal). I can achieve this for live playing, but it doesn't record the on/off of the leg and sordino, so when I playback a recording, it's messed up.


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## yiph2 (Feb 7, 2021)

No clue if this works, but maybe instead of 3 instances, make it 4 (extra one with con sordino)?


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## BassClef (Feb 7, 2021)

Logic user here... I spent some time making a few for Logic but then decided it was too much work. So I purchased the Babylon Waves articulation sets. Those work great with the CS libraries. (waiting on those for the new woodwinds)


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## Grizzlymv (Feb 7, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> No clue if this works, but maybe instead of 3 instances, make it 4 (extra one with con sordino)?


Well, using that method that would be 6 instances instead of 3 since you'd have to duplicate all of it. I guess that could be a compromise... but using twice the resources. 
If there's a way to keep it with one instance, that'd be best. 
@Alex W must have designed the CC58 controls that way for a reason (Leg on/off and sord on/off separated than the arts themselves). Not sure if he could bring some best practices or clarification for how to properly implement legato/sordino support in such case.



BassClef said:


> Logic user here... I spent some time making a few for Logic but then decided it was too much work. So I purchased the Babylon Waves articulation sets. Those work great with the CS libraries. (waiting on those for the new woodwinds)


Those aren't cheap though. and it's a bummer to have to wait for a third party to eventually provide full support. If they are able to do it, I guess we could too as well. With the amount of people using those libs, there must be someone who figured it out somewhere. Unless we aren't that many using expression maps, but that's a whole other story


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## OatMeal (Sep 2, 2022)

Grizzlymv said:


> Hi there,
> For those using the Cinematic Studio series instruments (CSS, CSW, CSB, CSSS) and Cubase with the expression maps, anyone had any success using it properly? I tried to use the CC58 method, which almost work fine. All entries are set as Attributes and it works fine as long as you don't add the Legato or Sordino in the equation. In order to have a Sustain Legato and a Sustain non Legato, both would in theory need 1 CC58 at 8 + CC58 at 88 while the other one would need CC58 at 8 + CC58 at 83. If you'd like to use it as Sordino, then a third CC would have to be sent. Thing is, when multiple value are used, only the last one takes effect. and obviously, you can't have multiple articulation on the same note, so even if I keep legato on, legato off, sustain and sordino on and sordio off on their own entry, only the sustain will work as others aren't an articulation per say. So, it would change it live, but in the recording, it's not retained, therefore once you playback, it always default to Legato On and Sordino Off.
> 
> The note on instead of controller could be an option, but I'd prefer to use the CC values if that's possible. I've used other tutorials in the past where it locks the legato to Marcato and Sustains only, so that means you don't enable/disable the legato, but you select Marcato or Sustain with or without legato. And that scenario excluded the sordino (or I'd have to duplicate the track and enforce Sordino on that one).
> ...


I don't know if you still need it, but it may help other readers. 

So to solve this you make separate slots for Legato ON, Legato OFF, Sordino ON and Sordino OFF if haven't yet. 

*Next goes the vital step:* in Art. 2 _(not in Art. 1)_ column for both Legatos create/add corresponding articulations. Now they are assigned to the _second group _in the articulation section. Do the same for Con Sord but now assign articulations in Art. 3 column. Now your Legato and Con Sordino are in separate groups hence they can be called simultaneously (see the screenshots). I work with the Direction Type of articulation but I think Attribute should work as well.

Then assign the Output Mapping as you would for other keyswitches (both CC58 and regular keys should work; the second way is in my case).


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## Henu (Sep 3, 2022)

I've never got separate columns to work with the articulation maps. I remember once reading that the columns don't work this simple (of course, because it's Cubase and expression maps! Simple would be just too much to ask.) but you need to make combined versions of everything in the "sound slots" section first before it works.

So you actually need Sus+leg, Sus+noleg, Sus+cs+leg, Sus+cs+noleg and so forth and _then_ combine the articulation groups together in the left side of the map creator. These won't be showing in the actual expression map (and won't be showing in the "articulations" section either) but are needed to be done so that Cubase can actually understand what you're trying to do. I have CSS and CSB maps that I got which have it like that and I've made myself a custom LASS3 map using the same principle, and they all work how you explain. But this "simple" method doesn't work, unfortunately.

I actually tested this again as we speak out of curiosity, both with KS and CC controlling the legato column, but neither worked. It's like Cubase ignores the second group completely if you don't do that annoying combination work in the "sound slots"- section. I'm doing CSW map right now and can share it when it's done if anyone wants it.

EDIT: Map attached. It's directional, but you can always change it to attributes if you will. From the screenshot you can see how I built it, so you need to have combined groups in order for it to work properly.


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