# IMac 2017 i7 vs Mac Pro 2013



## Jonik (Oct 20, 2017)

Hi all,

I'm using a 2012 'classic' macbook pro, which has served me well, but I'm running out of power, can't open some projects due to a RAM limit - all the usual issues with older machines!

I've held off upgrading for so long with the hopes that there would be a 32gb RAM Apple laptop out, but there isn't and my hand is being forced!

I do a lot of on-site work for composers, so the laptop has always been the most helpful option as I can go to them, and be there at studio sessions with a printable rig. However about 40% of my work is now at my home studio and I can work from there if needed! I won't be able to be at the recording session with a desktop necessarily though. The sort of sessions I'm struggling to run are large orchestral VI sessions with lots of plugins being made on a 12 core 2013 Mac Pro.

That leaves me with either getting an iMac or a Mac Pro. The old cheesegraters don't stack up according to my research using geekbench. Although they can hold their own single and multi-core wise, the cost isn't cheaper and it doesn't have thunderbolt and could be unsupported at any point. If it was half the price, then maybe, but it isn't. It's also definitely not portable!

Looking at Geek Bench, the iMac 2017 4.2 i7 and the 6-8 core Mac Pro 2013s are in roughly the same zone, both financially and power house wise. Here's a screenshot of geekbench:












Obviously the iMac trounces the mac pro on single core, but Logic X is very much multi core supported and the 8 core mac pro still wins even after 4 years.

I can get all 3 discounted:

*Mac Pro 2013 - 6 core*, 1tb SSD, 64gb RAM - £3,115
*Mac Pro 2013 - 8 core*, 1tb SSD, 64gb RAM - £3,445
*iMac 2017 - i7 4.2gHz*, 1tb SSD, 64gb RAM, Radeon 580 - £3,496.33
(iMac inc thunderbolt 3 adapter, keyboard with numpad)

All 3 have a 3 year warranty with their shops.

I'm torn. Mac Pro 2013 is more portable but is 4+ years old, the iMac has fan issues (due to i7 being so hot) and isn't as portable! I have screens already and could travel with the Mac Pro if needed, but the iMac is 2017 tech so should be supported for longer. Is the single core iMac result worth it overall? Or would I be happier with an 8 core Mac Pro that will fit in a backpack if needed?

Help!


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## mrj1nx (Oct 20, 2017)

I was in the same position, I went with the iMac, just got it a few weeks ago. My rationale was that the refurb option like createpro was to expensive so it would be more viable if i found a good/nobrainer deal by luck. I also read contradictions about single vs multi for music, and since the new iMac has such a high singlecore score I felt like it would even out, for my needs. I dont do major templates, work more with Soft synths like u-he and more. So far I havent even heard the fan, but I havent done any heavy projects yet, mostly around 15-20 tracks with 1-5 plugins per channel +5-10 buses.

I was gonna get a 15" maxxed out mbp first but after reading more on thermal throttling and the fact that the iMac has desktop grade cpu while macbooks has mobile versions, i decided to take the plunge on stationary, since what i needed was raw power. I also have my mobile needs covered with my 11" macbook air.

(FYI I went for the 27" i7 Radeon Pro 575, 8 gb ram (upgrade later), 512 ssd)


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## sourcefor (Oct 20, 2017)

I have a 2013 iMac i7, does anyone know if I can replace the fusion drive with an SSD?


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## Soundhound (Oct 20, 2017)

I just had the fusion drive in my 2012 iMac i7 swapped out for an ssd. I've experienced some problems (kernel panics, whatever that is) and it's in the shop, but so far they are saying it has nothing to do with the ssd change. I'll post more as I find out next week.


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## synthpunk (Oct 20, 2017)

Hope this helps





sourcefor said:


> I have a 2013 iMac i7, does anyone know if I can replace the fusion drive with an SSD?


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## Jonik (Oct 20, 2017)

Interesting - I knew that the cpu is better for plugins, so your thought is that as the cpu is much better on the imac the multicore result being slightly worse still means that overall it’s a better computer?

Does anyone else have any thoughts that might help me decide?



mrj1nx said:


> I was in the same position, I went with the iMac, just got it a few weeks ago. My rationale was that the refurb option like createpro was to expensive so it would be more viable if i found a good/nobrainer deal by luck. I also read contradictions about single vs multi for music, and since the new iMac has such a high singlecore score I felt like it would even out, for my needs. I dont do major templates, work more with Soft synths like u-he and more. So far I havent even heard the fan, but I havent done any heavy projects yet, mostly around 15-20 tracks with 1-5 plugins per channel +5-10 buses.
> 
> I was gonna get a 15" maxxed out mbp first but after reading more on thermal throttling and the fact that the iMac has desktop grade cpu while macbooks has mobile versions, i decided to take the plunge on stationary, since what i needed was raw power. I also have my mobile needs covered with my 11" macbook air.
> 
> (FYI I went for the 27" i7 Radeon Pro 575, 8 gb ram (upgrade later), 512 ssd)


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## sourcefor (Oct 21, 2017)

for what its worth I also have a 2017 15" mBP that I use when traveling. It seems a bit peppier but I still get those dreaded Logic CPU spikes..are they ever gonna fix this!!???


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## lpuser (Oct 21, 2017)

Wouldn´t it be better to wait until December, when Apple officially unveils the iMac Pro?
I asume that after the launch, earlier systems will drop in price and for sure the "pro" version will be more powerful.
Just a thought ...


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## Jonik (Oct 21, 2017)

lpuser said:


> Wouldn´t it be better to wait until December, when Apple officially unveils the iMac Pro?
> I asume that after the launch, earlier systems will drop in price and for sure the "pro" version will be more powerful.
> Just a thought ...



Also a very good point. I guess I’ve discounted the iMac Pro because the base model is rumoured to be just as expensive as the top line normal iMac, with the ram not being used upgradeable. Assuming the bottom line model of any line isn’t really the best value for money (16gb ram and tiny ssd etc) I didn’t think it affordable enough for me. I hadn’t however thought about the Mac Pro going down in price as a result, but I highly doubt the iMac line will go down in price.


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## lpuser (Oct 21, 2017)

Jonik said:


> but I highly doubt the iMac line will go down in price.



That´s a valid point for sure, because yes, the iMac Pro might not replace the current lineup. But maybe it will make them harder to sell so at some point, dealers could make special offers (just a guess).


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## Kaufmanmoon (Oct 22, 2017)

My gut feeling is the Trashcan's might even go up in price once the new imac pro's come out and people realise the cost once they want 64gb ram in their machine.


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## synthnut1 (Oct 23, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> I just had the fusion drive in my 2012 iMac i7 swapped out for an ssd. I've experienced some problems (kernel panics, whatever that is) and it's in the shop, but so far they are saying it has nothing to do with the ssd change. I'll post more as I find out next week.



I'm interested in what you find out about what is causing the kernel panics....I'm dealing with a similar issue.....Thanks...Jim


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## Soundhound (Oct 23, 2017)

Sorry I hadn't posted about this. I've had my iMac back for a couple of days and it hasn't happened again. The only thing they'd found wrong with it was a broken sensor, they think it was the one that checks on drive temperature. They think. They said it could cause kernel panics, but aren't sure.

To further complicate things, I had my MacBook Pro hooked up to all my stuff — 2 thunderbolt bus, 2 blackmagic docks w/ssds, a couple of monitors, and yesterday morning it had restarted itself overnight. 

So it could have been the iMac or could have been something else. I'll post with anything new I find out. Sorry this isn't much help...





synthnut1 said:


> I'm interested in what you find out about what is causing the kernel panics....I'm dealing with a similar issue.....Thanks...Jim


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## synthnut1 (Oct 24, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> Sorry I hadn't posted about this. I've had my iMac back for a couple of days and it hasn't happened again. The only thing they'd found wrong with it was a broken sensor, they think it was the one that checks on drive temperature. They think. They said it could cause kernel panics, but aren't sure.
> 
> To further complicate things, I had my MacBook Pro hooked up to all my stuff — 2 thunderbolt bus, 2 blackmagic docks w/ssds, a couple of monitors, and yesterday morning it had restarted itself overnight.
> 
> So it could have been the iMac or could have been something else. I'll post with anything new I find out. Sorry this isn't much help...


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## synthnut1 (Oct 24, 2017)

I put a new hd in my iMac and reinstalled the heat sensor...I'm wondering if this might be the cause of my problems......?......I'll give it a shot and see if it works and will report back.... Thanks for the help.....Jim


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## Soundhound (Oct 24, 2017)

update: this morning the imac had restarted again overnight. sigh. i’m away for the week but will look into it again next week.


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## babylonwaves (Oct 24, 2017)

Jonik said:


> I'm torn. Mac Pro 2013 is more portable but is 4+ years old, the iMac has fan issues (due to i7 being so hot) and isn't as portable! I have screens already and could travel with the Mac Pro if needed, but the iMac is 2017 tech so should be supported for longer. Is the single core iMac result worth it overall? Or would I be happier with an 8 core Mac Pro that will fit in a backpack if needed?


I couldn't sit on an iMac running a big Logic session and ignore the loud fan all the time. Well, in fact I just did and it is a problem, at least for me. The iMac is certainly great but having a fan running is such close proximity, right in between the speakers - not my cup of tea. I still prefer my trashcan - it's a six core with 64GB.


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## RRBE Sound (Oct 26, 2017)

I am buying a 6-core Mac Pro tomorrow, used. It's from 2014 and seems like a very durable workhorse.


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## synthnut1 (Oct 26, 2017)

The one big feature for me wanting a Mac is Thunderbolt......Looks like the Asrock mb's are Tbolt ready and will also accept the multi core Intel processors....I can keep the computer noise away from the screen....


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## galactic orange (Oct 26, 2017)

Jonik said:


> I've held off upgrading for so long with the hopes that there would be a 32gb RAM Apple laptop out, but there isn't and my hand is being forced!


A 32GB MacBook Pro would be great boon to flexibility and mobility. However, I'm starting to wonder how much something like this would cost coming from Apple (no user installable RAM anymore). The cost might be such that a similar specced Mac Pro (2013 or future model) would offer more bang for the buck.



RRBE Sound said:


> I am buying a 6-core Mac Pro tomorrow, used. It's from 2014 and seems like a very durable workhorse.


Nice! A used 6-core is likely what I'll be looking for in the next 6 months. The low-power draw of the 2013 Mac Pro is a very important factor to me, which is why going the cheese grater route won't work. Does someone know the power draw stats of the mid-2017 iMac?

I like that the Mac Pro is upgradeable (RAM, processor, and even SSD if you're willing to take a speed hit). I don't need Thunderbolt 3. The Mac Pro RAM is considerably more expensive than the RAM for an iMac, and I plan to put 64GB in whichever one I get. Factors such as this are nudging me more and more toward the iMac although it's not what I want and I don't want reward Apple's reluctance to upgrade other systems.


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## synthpunk (Oct 26, 2017)

I believe someone tested recently and the cheese grater used asbout 30% more power. 

Here are the Vader Helmet power specs
https://macperformanceguide.com/MacPro2013-power-usage.html

Most of your power consumption is going to come form your video monitors. The older Apple Cinemas are power hogs.



galactic orange said:


> Nice! A used 6-core is likely what I'll be looking for in the next 6 months. The low-power draw of the 2013 Mac Pro is a very important factor to me, which is why going the cheese grater route won't work. Does someone know the power draw stats of the mid-2017 iMac?


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## galactic orange (Oct 26, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Most of your power consumption is going to come form your video monitors. The older Apple Cinemas are power hogs.


How do the new iMac's perform in this regard? Any performance improvements with the new screens vs. a 2015 iMac? (I could try a search for a comparison, but just wondered if someone in the forum knew offhand.)


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## Kent (Oct 26, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> update: this morning the imac had restarted again overnight. sigh. i’m away for the week but will look into it again next week.


I had some similar issues months ago. Turns out my iMac didn’t like the OWC RAM I was using ... or the replacement OWC RAM I had got for it ... or the new OS ... or the old OS ... or the yet-another-new iMac ...

But once I put Crucial RAM in, all the problems were solved.

YMMV of course. Either way, I’ve been there, and I feel for ya.


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## galactic orange (Oct 26, 2017)

kmaster said:


> But once I put Crucial RAM in, all the problems were solved.


Crucial RAM has always treated my systems well. So I've never looked elsewhere for RAM.


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## RRBE Sound (Oct 27, 2017)

galactic orange said:


> Nice! A used 6-core is likely what I'll be looking for in the next 6 months. The low-power draw of the 2013 Mac Pro is a very important factor to me, which is why going the cheese grater route won't work. Does someone know the power draw stats of the mid-2017 iMac?
> 
> I like that the Mac Pro is upgradeable (RAM, processor, and even SSD if you're willing to take a speed hit). I don't need Thunderbolt 3. The Mac Pro RAM is considerably more expensive than the RAM for an iMac, and I plan to put 64GB in whichever one I get. Factors such as this are nudging me more and more toward the iMac although it's not what I want and I don't want reward Apple's reluctance to upgrade other systems.



Very cool! - Yea. I also do like the fact that it is possible to upgrade almost everything in the Mac Pro. I do believe that some people are still using the older Mac Pro (G4) or what they are named. These can be upgraded (of course not unlimited) but the possibility is there. 

I am buying the MAc Pro with a 256 GB SSD, however, I do have a 500 GB EVO SSD, maybe I should use that.. ? 

Also, do anyone have experience with the **physical'' size of the ram (I think I mean in depth, )???

All the best
Rune


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## babylonwaves (Oct 27, 2017)

RRBE Sound said:


> I am buying the MAc Pro with a 256 GB SSD, however, I do have a 500 GB EVO SSD, maybe I should use that.. ?


256 is fine, you just need do more house keeping.


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## seclusion3 (Oct 27, 2017)

I can’t wait to receive my 2017 27” 4.2 1TB SSD with 32 gigs of ram. Coming from a 2010 Mac Pro that died I am excited. I also purchased a OWC dock 3 so I can use my FireWire Presonus 16.0.2, 2 3.1 gen 2 media sonic external dual ssd HD enclosures, extra 27” display and several USB devices.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 27, 2017)

synthnut1 said:


> The one big feature for me wanting a Mac is Thunderbolt



I'm less enthusiastic than you about yet another protocol, to be honest, especially one that's changing all the time. USB 3 is fine, because you can just add a cheap card - as with Gigabit Ethernet, which is also wireless. But Thunderbolt requires a computer that supports it, plus it's going to be carried over a USB-C connector - along with power and everything else. That seems like a prescription for clusterfongula.

Other from attracting women (or men if you prefer), does Thunderbolt bring anything compelling to our spiritual lives?


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## synthnut1 (Oct 27, 2017)

Some of the new Thunderbolt products from Antelope looks pretty enticing...They also have USB 3 products, but I'm not too sure about USB 3...????.....USB C ?.....maybe.....Still up in the air on this one...Fast external SSDs can be run via Thunderbolt also...Still researching all of the above....Jim


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## joespringfield (Nov 6, 2017)

Is anyone using usb c on the new macbook pro? I guess I would have to get an adapter to work with Apollo twin mk2


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## sourcefor (Nov 6, 2017)

joespringfield said:


> Is anyone using usb c on the new macbook pro? I guess I would have to get an adapter to work with Apollo twin mk2


Yes I am using the new 2017 MacBook Pro with no problems yet ...I have a Hyperdrive dongle which has USB 3 thunderbolt, etc and I have the other usb-c adaptors and they seem to work great on my machine. I use an Apogee ONE on the road and a symphony mk2 at home!


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## samphony (Nov 6, 2017)

I just upgraded my Vader Pro from 6core to 12core for $560!


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## Sovereign (Nov 6, 2017)

samphony said:


> I just upgraded my Vader Pro from 6core to 12core for $560!


What type of Xeon did you put in?


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## joespringfield (Nov 7, 2017)

sourcefor said:


> Yes I am using the new 2017 MacBook Pro with no problems yet ...I have a Hyperdrive dongle which has USB 3 thunderbolt, etc and I have the other usb-c adaptors and they seem to work great on my machine. I use an Apogee ONE on the road and a symphony mk2 at home!


Thanks for your reply. Does the fan in your macbook kick on after hours of use? I will be tracking in the same room.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 7, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Other from attracting women (or men if you prefer), does Thunderbolt bring anything compelling to our spiritual lives?



My new Apogee Element is Thunderbolt, and there is zero latency. I didn't really have issues on USB previously, but I get can the buffers really low and there's nothing. I can't say it's attracted any cougars yet


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 7, 2017)

This line always works for me: "Hey, I like your buns. Wanna see how my Thunderbolt interface nests in my chest hairs?"


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## jonnybutter (Nov 7, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> This line always works for me: "Hey, I like your buns. Wanna see how my Thunderbolt interface nests in my chest hairs?"



 we male music geeks are so suave.

I got a refurb Vader partially because I wanted something portable. I use TB with my new Antelope audio interface, and it's almost like playing through a wire and hardware outboard gear. I *had* noticed some timing problems with my Focusrite (USB2) interface although I don't know that it was a USB problem. No problems now. The SSD drives are in the Blackmagic rack and everything is zippy. I'm happy.


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## samphony (Nov 7, 2017)

Sovereign said:


> What type of Xeon did you put in?


It’s an Intel Xeon E5 - 2697 v2 

If you eBay that you will find plenty of them. I decided between the 2697v2 (12core) and 2690v2 (10core) and went with the 2697v2.


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## sourcefor (Nov 11, 2017)

joespringfield said:


> Thanks for your reply. Does the fan in your macbook kick on after hours of use? I will be tracking in the same room.


Don't really notice it and sometimes I will record a V/O next to the computer as well!


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