# First Synth?



## GULL

I am new to Synths. Never (extensively) used one. Which one you would recommend as my first Synth?

Thanks in advance


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## chillbot

Omni if you can afford it, Zebra if you can't.

Please disregard any post that comes after this.


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## Jaap

chillbot said:


> Omni if you can afford it, Zebra if you can't.
> 
> Please disregard any post that comes after this.



But...but.... I was going to suggest the same (and add Serum to that list and if you can't afford it, you can rent-to-buy it at Splice!)


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## GULL

chillbot said:


> Please disregard any post that comes after this.


Love this part 
I am sure you can help me to understand WHY Omni/Zebra. The criteria on picking a good synth



Jaap said:


> But...but.... I was going to suggest the same (and add Serum to that list and if you can't afford it, you can rent-to-buy it at Splice!)


Strengths of Serum please


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## synthpunk

You can download the demo versions of the U-he and Serum and see if they float your boat.

I might not recommend Zebra as your very first synth to begin with there's a lot in there to learn and you have to invest a lot of time into learning it. It may be better to start with one of the free you U-he synths such as Tyrell N6, Podolski, or Zebralette.

If you give us a better idea what type of music you do ,what type of sound you're looking for and that sort of thing we may be able to better recommend some other options for you. For example if you're looking to do Synthwave you may be better off with Diva, Uno - 62 LX, Or the Free OB-Xd.

Omnisphere will be a friend for life and do just about everything well (maybe except for EDM stuff).


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## chillbot

GULL said:


> I am sure you can help me to understand WHY Omni/Zebra. The criteria on picking a good synth


Because Omni is widely considered the best and most useful synth for the money. You can use it to make edgy electronica or you can use it in your orchestral work or organic ethnic work. You can get get into the nuts and bolts and master how to use it, make your own sounds.... but it's also the perfect synth for a beginner with thousands and thousands of presets. I use it in every track I do.

The thing about the Omni/Zebra debate is that Zebra is also a killer synth, though I think slightly more useful to advanced users than beginners. The answer to the debate is you should really get them both. Zebra is that good, but nothing compares to Omni. There are many many threads on the topic.

Please disregard disregarding this post.


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## chillbot

synthpunk said:


> Omnisphere will be a friend for life and do just about everything well (maybe except for EDM stuff).


Disagree... Omni is killer for EDM stuff. I just counted 8 third-party Omni soundsets that I own that have "EDM" right in the title!


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## GULL

@chillbot Thank you very much. That helps.



synthpunk said:


> It may be better to start with one of the free you U-he synths such as Tyrell N6, Podolski, or Zebralette.


Thanks for the suggestion. I will check them.


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## Jaap

GULL said:


> Strengths of Serum please



The sound is outstanding, you can manipulate sounds in so many ways, create your own wavetables (and import your own wave files to generate a wavetable from them). It has a nice, modern, edgy sound. 
I think this video should give you a nice overview and this guy is saying it much better then I do


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## sostenuto

^^^^^ Serum's Oscillators maybe best of the best .... 

u-he Diva not mentioned and perhaps easiest to get from start to finish for sound/library creation. Capable, trusted resource commented days ago about this compared to the striped one ... (and quite capable with both). Does lots of Omni2 stuff as well.

Omni2 is terrific choice __ perhaps best if cost is not a barrier. So many top caliber resources (tutorials/vids) out there to lean on.


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## Jaap

Parsifal666 said:


> And yes, I'm ready for the Serum fans (of which I'm one) to rally in defense. Hey, I've been using that synth since it first came out, but I certainly could be wrong.



On the contrary, I think it is good to hear different opinions and feelings with it. It is good to know the first hand experiences and how everyone is feeling about it, but in the end it differs per user of course and it is to the OP if it is up to his liking or not


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## FinGael

What kind of sounds are you interested in?

Are you looking for good presets or mainly thinking of making your own sounds?

For a film/media composer I would recommend Omnisphere 2.

It provides an easy access to a big and diverse palette of quality sounds (the ones that are included + there are many good third party soundsets available).

Something else if you want to focus on learning synthesis. Omnisphere 2 has plenty of options to modify presets, or craft your own sounds, but imo there are better options if you aim for diving into the world of synth programming.

Or you can do both; with Omni you can go far, and there are plenty of other synths to use as tools of learning, many of them freeware.


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## sostenuto

Really applaud u-he and Xfr for making great demos available !!  Makes it much better for OP to sort !


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## chillbot

Jaap said:


> On the contrary, I think it is good to hear different opinions and feelings with it.



I don't want to hear different opinions about it, this question still astounds me. Stop bringing up Diva and Serum in the same sentence as Omni. Though I don't think of Omni as a *synth* so much as a *music-making-tool*, if that makes sense. It's like an entire orchestra whereas other synths are a solo instrument. The dumbest thing you could do is to not get Omni. Now if you can't afford it, that's perfectly fine. But then the question should be phrased "If I can't afford Omni, what synth should I get?" And then we can start talking about Diva and Serum and what I consider an amazing synth but a distant 2nd place, Zebra.

Sorry if I sound harsh not my intent. I'm not trying to be a "fanboy" so much as I just try to be logical and, having had all the synths mentioned above, I don't get there's a comparison. Doesn't matter to me what the OP wants to *do* with the synth, Omni will do everything so why would you get a synth geared toward *one* thing when you can just get a synth that will help you out in every thing you do?

Though yes I grudgingly admit that if you just want to learn basic or advanced synthesis there are better synths for that than Omni. However... if you just want to learn synthesis, no reason to purchase anything there are plenty of freebies for this.


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## Jaap

@chillbot - I can only agree on what you are saying about Omni 2. It is beyond a great tool


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## sostenuto

Heh heh ... let the synth wars begin !!  

BTW at Parsifal666 was that Omni1 or 2 ?? For me Omni2 was a huge step forward ! 

Real empathy for these positions and more .. When cost range gets above $400. then NI & Komplete enter the fray with Massive, Absynth5, Reaktor6, ++ others.


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## FinGael

My opinion is that the ones mentioned so far are all good options.

...yet I have to confess that my personal favorite soft synth still is Lennar Digital Sylenth1.

It has been around for a decade or something, and many find the architecture of the synth too limiting - compared to the newer ones, but for me it still is so much fun to tweak it. Last week I counted that I have made 1500+ patches with it. I think that soundwise it is more diverse than the general opinion about it is.


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## Parsifal666

FinGael said:


> My opinion is that the ones mentioned so far are all good options.
> 
> ...yet I have to confess that my personal favorite soft synth still is Lennar Digital Sylenth1.
> 
> It has been around for a decade or something, and many find the architecture of the synth too limiting - compared to the newer ones, but for me it still is so much fun to tweak it. Last week I counted that I have made 1500+ patches with it. I think that soundwise it is more diverse than the general opinion about it is.



Sylenth is terrific, almost every time I open it I'm inspired.



sostenuto said:


> Heh heh ... let the synth wars begin !!  BTW at Parsifal666 was that Omni1 or 2 ?? For me Omni2 was a huge step forward !
> 
> Real empathy for these positions and more .. When cost range gets above $400. then NI & Komplete enter the fray with Massive, Absynth5, Reaktor6, ++ others.



I looked back and realized how stupid this was getting, so I'm ducking out. Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!


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## GULL

I was reading those posts @Parsifal666 ... You were helpful there. Anyway thank you


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## Farkle

sostenuto said:


> Heh heh ... let the synth wars begin !!
> 
> BTW at Parsifal666 was that Omni1 or 2 ?? For me Omni2 was a huge step forward !
> 
> Real empathy for these positions and more .. When cost range gets above $400. then NI & Komplete enter the fray with Massive, Absynth5, Reaktor6, ++ others.



Yes, but those aren't single synths you're buying from NI... you're buying a *bundle*. So, yes for 500 or 600, you get FM 8, AND Absynth, AND Massive, etc.

The question was, "I'm new to synths, what is the first one I should get?"

I'm 110% with Chillbot on this. If you have a DAW, and want to get your first soft synth to learn about synthesis, to have a useful tool to make music with, to have a synth that grows with your ability. Omnisphere 2. Period. Nothing else.

I also agree with Chillbot in this way... if you want to LEARN how to program synths, then either download basic freebie oscillator synths, or (better yet) use the ones that come with your DAW. Logic has ES1 and ES2, Sonar has Pentagon and Psyn, etc.

Mike


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## GULL

Thank you @Farkle @FinGael and @sostenuto 

The confidence and reasoning of members in debates always throw light in areas of nuance. I thank everyone posting.


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## synthpunk

Agreed.



Parsifal666 said:


> I looked back and realized how stupid this was getting, so I'm ducking out. Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!


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## Ned Bouhalassa

Get one of these instead?:


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## Jaap

@GULL - I think what also could work nicely is fire up youtube and find some good walkthrough videos of the synths you might find interesting out of all the suggestions that have been made and see how their concepts work and how that is relating to you and what you are after.
On the contrary with buying a sample library like lets say Hollywood Strings or whatever, it goes further then just exposing the patches and presets. It is also about carrying it on beyond that and learn and work with your own custom created sounds and then it also comes down to what you are willing to learn and what tickles your creativity 
Anyway I hope you will enjoy it big time and good luck with the choice!


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## sostenuto

GULL said:


> Thank you @Farkle @FinGael and @sostenuto
> 
> The confidence and reasoning of members in debates always throw light in areas of nuance. I thank everyone posting.


Ha! You are cool guy and your many posts make clear your expertise. If Omni2 is a tough stretch for _1st_ synth, then many solid choices .... as you note. Omni1 was my 1st and even struggled a bit upgrading to Omni2. Have added several capable ones since, but Omni2 is used most, by far. 

Given no Demo to try, consider taking focused time at PlugInGuru.com and run thru as many videos as you deem worthwhile. John_ Skippy_ Lehmkuhl has impressive credentials starting back with years at Korg during major growth times. He is releasing new Libraries still, yet most for Omni2. 
In some recent ones, he has turned Omni2 into an incredible drum machine! That is not a strong interest of mine, but demonstrates both Omni2 strengths _today,_ in addition to Johns depth of capability with synths of any kind. 

No doubt you will sort capably and decide best __ *for you* ....


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## GULL

@Jaap Sure. Checking the Serum video now. Thanks for the help. 

@Ned Bouhalassa


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## GULL

sostenuto said:


> PlugInGuru.com


 Thanks for the suggestion.

From the posts I understand Omni is colossal and versatile. Think I should start with Zerbra or Serum as they are in my budget. I can move to Omni when I think appropriate. 

Btw, any thoughts about NI Massive? Just like to know how it is rated by synth users.


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## Jaap

Massive is great, but lacked updates from Native Instruments and Serum actually advanced a bit on that, but it it is still one heck of a synth and if you end up with the Komplete package for example, you can't go wrong with it 
And recently @TheUnfinished , which I deeply respect for all his great synth works said he is actually still grabbing back to Massive instead of Serum. I have personally the opposite, but honesty also requires to say I am in no league like TheUnfinished when it comes down to synths


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## sostenuto

GULL said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.
> 
> From the posts I understand Omni is colossal and versatile. Think I should start with Zerbra or Serum as they are in my budget. I can move to Omni when I think appropriate.
> 
> Btw, any thoughts about NI Massive? Just like to know how it is rated by synth users.



Many feel some popular, newer synths are similar to Massive in many ways, Skippy Lehmkuhl often speaks very highly of Massive, even more highly of Absynth5. Some of the very recent videos mentioned, cover those topics, but takes some effort to dig out those segments. Actually easier than Live/1st viewings, as John is very relaxed, takes a _hang_ type of posture, and moves around topics as his mood takes him. Fairly heavy-duty group following his recent LiveStreams (now recorded) as he responds freely to live posted comment as needed. 

I have time (retired) and resources to freely add synths as desired, and currently procrastinating over Zebra2, Serum, Diva, Icarus2. Not that each does not add solid value, _BUT_ Johns consistent comments cause me to rethink dedicated time with Massive, Absynth5, Reaktor6, other NI, which are already available. Omni2 is a given.

Most here know well (me for sure), there is no right answer. You at least have a solid short list and can sort what seems best first step for your needs. No matter what you choose, the other top choices will be there beaconing .....


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## Nathanael Iversen

Omnisphere is ridiculous good. It has everything: samples, granular, effects, an infinite mod-matrix. Chillbot is right - it comes with close to 10k presets with a great browser. You don't have to program anything to get usable sounds right away, but programming it is quite satisfying.


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## Voider

GULL said:


> Think I should start with Zerbra or Serum as they are in my budget. I can move to Omni when I think appropriate.



Two thoughts: Serum is a good synth to start with because of the visual representation of everything. Actually seeing what is modulating what an help understanding when learning. It has a pretty metallic/thin sound though that one needs to like. If you go for Zebra, I recommend you instead to have a look at Dune 2. Because subtractive synthesis is the most common that almost all synthesizers use and should be learned first and Zebra is a mix of different synthesis types such as additive.

That being said, Urs Heckmann (creator of Zebra) himself stated at I think it was KVRaudio, that if you own Dune 2 you most likely don't need any other synth because there is only a few it can't do. Dune 2 also has a way more cleaned up interface. But in the end, pick what you feel most comfortable with.

Edit: If you want to learn how to create patches your own, have a look at syntorial. I think that's the very best place to start with learning, if the budget allows. But there is also a free demo with the first lessons avaiable.



sostenuto said:


> even more highly of Absynth5



Absynth5 sounds beautiful. But it is focusing definitely on ambient textures and experimental sound. I demoed it a few times but never really got connected to it. But Michael McCann used it a lot for the legendary soundtrack from _Deus Ex: Human Revolution._


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## GULL

Jaap said:


> And recently @TheUnfinished , which I deeply respect for all his great synth works said he is actually still grabbing back to Massive instead of Serum



So it is seems to be all about personal choices and our capability with a product 



sostenuto said:


> You at least have a solid short list and can sort what seems best first step for your needs.


True. I feel comfortable about picking a synth just after starting this thread 



Nathanael Iversen said:


> 10k presets with a great browser.


That really talks about the versatility of the product



Voider said:


> Serum is a good synth to start with because of the visual representation of everything


 I can see that. I think @Parsifal666 said in his discarded post that Serum has more strength when it comes to mid range of keys. Any thoughts?


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## Voider

GULL said:


> Any thoughts?



Depends on the kind of music you want to do. Serum is more used in the EDM genre and will probably have more of this and electro kind sounds (referring to presets), than something more into film scoring, warm pads and those.


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## Parsifal666

Jaap said:


> And recently @TheUnfinished , which I deeply respect for all his great synth works said he is actually still grabbing back to Massive instead of Serum. I have personally the opposite, but honesty also requires to say I am in no league like TheUnfinished when it comes down to synths



This really interests me. I so like his work with EDNA in particular.

I'm always, delightedly surprised by how great Massive sounds, especially when it gets buried for awhile under my other synths. I'd LOVE to be able to import wavetables with it (I'm actually a bit baffled as to why NI never added that feature). But it's a classic that's still good enough to be relevant today, in my humble opinion.


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## Jdiggity1

Omnisphere sucks


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## sostenuto

Jdiggity1 said:


> Omnisphere sucks


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## AllanH

Your DAW likely comes with a few. That's the cheapest place to start (and learn a bit).


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## Parsifal666

Jdiggity1 said:


> Omnisphere sucks



How does it suck? I'm honestly curious. The reception for Omni2 has been overwhelmingly positive, not many bad reviews.


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## sostenuto

AllanH said:


> Your DAW likely comes with a few. That's the cheapest place to start (and learn a bit).



True, but invested time and effort can far exceed product cost. Yeah .. basics are basics, yet there is merit in selecting a starting point that has strong potential for growth as User grows. So many reasonable-cost options which are quite capable. Many mentioned here already.


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## chillbot

Parsifal666 said:


> How does it suck? I'm honestly curious.


He's just trolling me. Don't even think @Jdiggity1 owns Omni.


GULL said:


> So it is seems to be all about personal choices and our capability with a product


This is not true... personal choices are made when you have 8 synths and maybe one is slightly better for one project or you've used one synth a lot recently and need fresh inspiration. I've used Omni for what, like 15 years now at least... if you go back to the Atmosphere days... sometimes you need a break. It's good to have a bunch of synths. But if you only have *one* synth... I guess you know my thoughts but needless to say I think you're overthinking this.


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## Jdiggity1

My apologies.
It's late. And I'm wondering what to do with all these spanners.


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## Kent

I guess the real question is: are you specifically asking about a software synth (as this is in the "Virtual Synths" sub-forum)? Or about synths in general, including hardware synths?

In my opinion, nothing teaches one about synthesis more than having physical, haptic control over a synthesizer. Maybe not the very best one, but a good "first" synth would, IMO, be something like the https://www.roland.com/us/products/gaia_sh-01/ (Roland Gaia).


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## GULL

chillbot said:


> He's just trolling me. Don't even think @Jdiggity1 owns Omni.
> 
> This is not true... personal choices are made when you have 8 synths and maybe one is slightly better for one project or you've used one synth a lot recently and need fresh inspiration. I've used Omni for what, like 15 years now at least... if you go back to the Atmosphere days... sometimes you need a break. It's good to have a bunch of synths. But if you only have *one* synth... I guess you know my thoughts but needless to say I think you're overthinking this.



Got it


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## GULL

synthpunk said:


> You can download the demo versions of the U-he and Serum and see if they float your boat.
> 
> I might not recommend Zebra as your very first synth to begin with there's a lot in there to learn and you have to invest a lot of time into learning it. It may be better to start with one of the free you U-he synths such as Tyrell N6, Podolski, or Zebralette.
> 
> If you give us a better idea what type of music you do ,what type of sound you're looking for and that sort of thing we may be able to better recommend some other options for you. For example if you're looking to do Synthwave you may be better off with Diva, Uno - 62 LX, Or the Free OB-Xd.
> 
> Omnisphere will be a friend for life and do just about everything well (maybe except for EDM stuff).



I am looking for creating sfx, for layering with other instrument samples. I am unlikely to do anything like EDM


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## sostenuto

GULL said:


> I am looking for creating sfx, for layering with other instrument samples. I am unlikely to do anything like EDM



This pretty 'key' comment and will likely get some focus. The EDM thing is sticky as so many capable synths have also been responding to the 'push' for some time. Having a chat with fav sound designer(s) and hope they provide some ideas.


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## AdamKmusic

Zebra2 and ZebraHZ, get some The Unfinished sound sets too! Then dive into learning it and making your own sounds!


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## GULL

Anyone use Codex Synth from Waves?


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## Living Fossil

There are lots of choices...

Personally, i would say Zebra (HZ) is the best choice, in terms of sound and flexibility.

Omnisphere is great and i use it a lot. However, in my opinion u-He synths have better filters. 
(And i totally like the semi modular approach of Zebra).


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## sostenuto

Zebra2 @ AudioDeluxe for ~$179. now. If you add HZ Expansion later (~$99.) .. then Zebra3 Upgrade (maybe 2018) is free. You're spending close to $300. total, but little doubt about capability ... now and later ! Tough to beat if budget allows ....


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## Voider

As said previously, I doubt Zebra is a good starting synth because subtractive is the most common synthesis way one should learn first. Additive synthesis and all this advanced stuff is something for later.


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## Parsifal666

Living Fossil said:


> There are lots of choices...
> 
> Personally, i would say Zebra (HZ) is the best choice, in terms of sound and flexibility.
> 
> Omnisphere is great and i use it a lot. However, in my opinion u-He synths have better filters.
> (And i totally like the semi modular approach of Zebra).



Love love LOVE HZ!  But I also use Sylenth, Massive, XILS IV, Harmor, Sytrus, Waldorf Nave, Largo, and PPG 3, Gladiator, Diva, Electra, Serum.


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## sostenuto

Voider said:


> As said previously, I doubt Zebra is a good starting synth because subtractive is the most common synthesis way one should learn first. Additive synthesis and all this advanced stuff is something for later.



At first look, I tend to agree and there are many solid choices ____ TyrellN6, Bazille, Sylenth, Spire, Zebralette, even Diva. There is a way in Zebra2 to build simple subtractive synth templates and learn from there. My stubbornness is a gut feel that the OP is more capable than many newer users and I hate to see $$, time, effort go into something with no growth/future. My time/talent is not 'free' and hate to waste/trivialize it on a solution that dead-ends quickly. 

On balance, you are likely more correct and perhaps OP should find a 'PATH' like u-he, to begin and move forward as he learns. NI is another, with a marvelous range to explore and grow into.


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## Voider

sostenuto said:


> My stubbornness is a gut feel that the OP is more capable than many newer users and I hate to see $$, time, effort go into something with no growth/future.



You could make whole albums with Dune II alone. These are a few cinematic examples by kevin schröder with Dune 2 only: 

Of course this would require to already have mastered synthesis and is nothing one can expect in the first years I guess, but just referring to how much is possible with it in the end.


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## MisteR

I think if you are just starting on synths it's worth noting that buying one single issue of computer music magazine ($5 online or on zinio or phone) gives you license to their huge vault of light versions of many of these synths. Start there before you lose your shirt.


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## Parsifal666

MisteR said:


> I think if you are just starting on synths it's worth noting that buying one single issue of computer music magazine ($5 online or on zingo or phone) gives you license to their huge vault of light versions of many of these synths. Start there before you lose your shirt.



I had a two year subscription early on and learned a BUNCH.


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## sostenuto

Voider said:


> You could make whole albums with Dune II alone. These are a few cinematic examples by kevin schröder with Dune 2 only:
> 
> Of course this would require to already have mastered synthesis and is nothing one can expect in the first years I guess, but just referring to how much is possible with it in the end.




At $169. are you suggesting that this could not also be accomplished by a page-full of synths already mentioned here ? 
OP's additional short post __ _" am looking for creating sfx, for layering with other instrument samples. I am unlikely to do anything like EDM"_ __ is a definite improvement on his initial 'broad' inquiry. 

Since I do not use my many synths for this application, I have no useful suggestion and 'withdraw' 

Hopefully there are some here who are capable at precisely this synth work and can offer a few truly appropriate alternatives.


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## Voider

sostenuto said:


> At $169. are you suggesting that this could not also be accomplished by a page-full of synths already mentioned here ?



Depends on what synth. Something like Diva probably not due to lack of free drawable MSEGs, I doubt Serum got enough low end for heavy SFX such as _booms_. Of course it depends on what kind of sfx the OP want, but the best way to go for that are Dune 2 and Zebra in that price range and I already mentioned why I would start with Dune 2 over Zebra. Also Dune 2 is $99 at sales and we're just a few weeks ahead summer sales. I don't know if synapse audio launches summer sales but they did black friday/christmas.

But I basically was just replying to your growth/future statement.


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## sostenuto

Understand ^^^ Yeah .. I'm lost at this point and you/others can focus on his stated needs.
Your Serum comment seems valid; Dune 2 / Diva subtleties _ I need to sort as not having pursued Dune2 yet.
Summer Sales are an excellent point if OP can hang on & experiment with quality freebies.

Best !


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## GULL

Dune 2 is impressive


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## GULL

Here is the naive question. As many posters say Serum lacks low tonality, say is it impossible to create a BHOOM with Serum, or it is not very easy to create. The reason is that my basic understanding of a Synth is _a software with appropriate interface to tweak parameters to create, to modulate sounds algorithmically. 
_
Each synth can approach the task differently. But there should be some basic ingredients common to every synth. I am actually struggle to understand a particular synth lacks something. Please help me to understand.

Context of this question is that I have installed the free synths from u-he and playing with them. And, I have been eyeing Splice rent to own Serum for two reasons. I can start learning Serum and still can reserve my budge for another synth (for a possible upcoming sale).

Am I making sense?

Thanks


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## Parsifal666

GULL said:


> Here is the naive question. As many posters say Serum lacks low tonality, say is it impossible to create a BHOOM with Serum, or it is not very easy to create. The reason is that my basic understanding of a Synth is _a software with appropriate interface to tweak parameters to create, to modulate sounds algorithmically.
> _
> Each synth can approach the task differently. But there should be some basic ingredients common to every synth. I am actually struggle to understand a particular synth lacks something. Please help me to understand.
> 
> Context of this question is that I have installed the free synths from u-he and playing with them. And, I have been eyeing Splice rent to own Serum for two reasons. I can start learning Serum and still can reserve my budge for another synth (for a possible upcoming sale).
> 
> Am I making sense?
> 
> Thanks



Splice is a very fair program for Serum imo. I had sold Serum a year after buying (I simply used Nave and Electra more0, then realized from a demo a year and a half later how much it had been improved upon. Splice helped me get it back.

Serum can be responsible for some super fun, skull-rattling BHOOM...it's just not particularly BOOMY. I realize that sounds cuckoo, so bear with me. I've created and heard some terrific, snapping, crackling, and popping sounds from that synth, but I've yet to hear a Diva, Zebra/HZ, or Z3ta-level sub bass boom, not without either layering it (that's often your only choice in the end, to simply use it as a mid to high mid element in a layer) or using your best outboard effects, I've used Renaissance Bass to excellent effect with it, for instance (I know, I know, just EQ it, but some folks around here can't be bothered, no problem).

To be completely fair, Serum is advertised as anything but an analogue synth overall, so one shouldn't really expect that capability on top of the seemingly countless opportunities for modulation.


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## Voider

GULL said:


> I am actually struggle to understand a particular synth lacks something. Please help me to understand.



That's likely because of the different ways the filters work. But Serum is one of the very few that sound that thin, usually most of the synths don't lack in the low end.


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## GULL

Parsifal666 said:


> Splice is a very fair program for Serum imo. I had sold Serum a year after buying (I simply used Nave and Electra more0, then realized from a demo a year and a half later how much it had been improved upon. Splice helped me get it back.
> 
> Serum can be responsible for some super fun, skull-rattling BHOOM...it's just not particularly BOOMY. I realize that sounds cuckoo, so bear with me. I've created and heard some terrific, snapping, crackling, and popping sounds from that synth, but I've yet to hear a Diva, Zebra/HZ, or Z3ta-level sub bass boom, not without either layering it (that's often your only choice in the end, to simply use it as a mid to high mid element in a layer) or using your best outboard effects, I've used Renaissance Bass to excellent effect with it, for instance (I know, I know, just EQ it, but some folks around here can't be bothered, no problem).
> 
> To be completely fair, Serum is advertised as anything but an analogue synth overall, so one shouldn't really expect that capability on top of the seemingly countless opportunities for modulation.



I got it now


----------



## Parsifal666

I'd hate to give up any of my synths. Sometimes I wonder if the sheer volume and range of the synths I own are the main reason I never bought Omnisphere again. My synths and libraries keep me occupied like crazy, endless sources of inspiration.

But I imagine I'll buy Omni again, for zee collection. I can't fool myself. After I get a bunch of other stuff like the Strezov AMS Brass! (drool drool), the rest of the Hein Solo Strings, etc.


----------



## Parsifal666

Voider said:


> That's likely because of the different ways the filters work. But Serum is one of the very few that sound that thin, usually most of the synths don't lack in the low end.



I'm pretty much in agreement here. That weird lack of low end was even more striking to me because of this.


----------



## GULL

MisteR said:


> I think if you are just starting on synths it's worth noting that buying one single issue of computer music magazine ($5 online or on zingo or phone) gives you license to their huge vault of light versions of many of these synths. Start there before you lose your shirt.



Can you share any link? There are many results in search, with varying subscription options


----------



## sostenuto

With most recent few Posts, would (selfishly) like to hear a bit more re. Diva/Dune2. Diva has been very high on shortlist for some time; Dune2 not. 
Close resource very high on Diva, especially on accomplishing project work more quickly. He produces/sells libraries regularly. What are serious Diva shortcomings vis-à-vis Dune2 ? and Dune2 vis-à-vis Diva ?


----------



## Parsifal666

At least some of the hoopla surrounding Diva is the SOUND. It's just...I mean, the filters can at times make Serum seem pretty wimpy in my opinion.

But it's not just that, if you like super fat 80s sound, the thinner 70s horror thing, the "new romantic" post-punk thing, modern music to the present day (those basses are eminently usable in electro-industrial, EDM, and dub, I know from experience). The sound is so incredibly fat, full...it can sound heavenly, it can sound anti-hero ugly, bright (but not garishly like most analogue synths, almost a "warm brightness", if that makes any sense).


----------



## sostenuto

Parsifal666 said:


> At least some of the hoopla surrounding Diva is the SOUND. It's just...I mean, the filters can at times make Serum seem pretty wimpy in my opinion.
> 
> But it's not just that, if you like super fat 80s sound, the thinner 70s horror thing, the "new romantic" post-punk thing, modern music to the present day (those basses are eminently usable in electro-industrial, EDM, and dub, I know from experience). The sound is so incredibly fat, full...it can sound heavenly, it can sound anti-hero ugly, bright (but not garishly like most analogue synths, almost a "warm brightness", if that makes any sense).



While this is the input received ..... plz do not treat as a quote, and for obvious reason I will not identify my source ....

_........ Diva is a personal favorite, because the path from idea to a finished sound is extremely quick. Granted - have been making sounds for it for years so know it inside out, but Zebra is on a whole different level. It’s a bit like a simpler version of Reaktor - and if you don’t work with hard discipline, you can spend a whole night getting nowhere. With Diva - results are quick. You are way more limited of course, but that often leads to interesting work arounds._

_But have you heard the new Repro-1? Man - am blown away.
_
This was just days ago, and was while asking for help choosing next synth ... with no specific project in mind. Left the Repro-1 comment in as it has now derailed me for a bit !


----------



## Parsifal666

I'm not sure about the good results quick with Diva, though there are presets on there that are imo completely extraordinary. Best results mean you have to buckle down with the tutorials, learning all the intricacies of the filters. Plus, the modulation set up on Diva is a little bit quirky. So unless you're into presets mostly, it's NOT that easy with Diva...easier than Zebra I'll concede.

However, U-he just plain makes great presets with ALL of their synths, and the Strip'd Horse (Zebra/HZ) is no exception. IMO.


----------



## sostenuto

Parsifal666 said:


> I'm not sure about the good results quick with Diva, though there are presets on there that are imo completely extraordinary. Best results mean you have to buckle down with the tutorials, learning all the intricacies of the filters. Plus, the modulation set up on Diva is a little bit quirky. So unless you're into presets mostly, it's NOT that easy with Diva...easier than Zebra I'll concede.
> 
> However, U-he just plain makes great presets with ALL of their synths, and the Strip'd Horse (Zebra/HZ) is no exception. IMO.



For me, this is the dilemma OP faces with Replies ... as I know this sound designer and Presets are not what he would be utilizing. So his comment must be taken carefully, when flavored by your insightful thoughts. Every individual is coming from such a salient position, providing honest comment, just shaped by many different factors. Like you, he is quite comfortable with the Strip'd one and responding to my query. Perhaps response to OP's need could be very different .....

I need to butt out, but this Thread bears so heavily on my shortlist dissection and stirred it up plenty. Zebra2, Diva, Serum, & couple Rob Papen ....
Apologies @ Gull !!


----------



## Parsifal666

I own Papen Blue II and Predator and love them a lot.

Blue II is a modulation MONSTER, just check out the recordable XY function. Predator I use for effects and sometimes basses. Though not sonically dissimilar to Serum, that XY function alone makes it a really stimulating synth (not sure, but I don't think Serum features that ability).


----------



## Parsifal666

If you end up liking the Waldorf sound, Largo is yet another one for amazing, multi layered programming. It's more of a niche, as is the Wavegenerator and 'mapper by PPG. The latter two are also character synths, you have to like their different sound in order to want to learn how to program them...the rewards from all three never stop coming, at least in my experience.


----------



## sostenuto

Parsifal666 said:


> I own Papen Blue II and Predator and love them a lot.
> 
> Blue II is a modulation MONSTER, just check out the recordable XY function. Predator I use for effects and sometimes basses. Though not sonically dissimilar to Serum, that XY function alone makes it a really stimulating synth (not sure, but I don't think Serum features that ability).



Cool ! No secret I have followed John 'Skippy" Lehmkuhl (PlugInGuru) intently and was a bit startled with recent release of Blue II Library. He followed up with a 'compromised' Livestream (remote location) and clearly finds many strengths in Blue II. My very brief tracking would have led to Predator, but not for any informed reasons.

I guess the 'good news' is the vast list of quality, capable synths !!! .... if one truly knows what specific need is to be met.


----------



## GULL

@sostenuto Every post is a guide to my quest, directly or indirectly. I can already searching for information on what @Parsifal666 mentions in his post. Now I know names of dozen synths  Off course, not mere names


----------



## MisteR

GULL said:


> Can you share any link? There are many results in search, with varying subscription options


Zinio.com
You don't have to subscribe. One issue costs around five bucks. Get the latest issue and you have 72 free instruments/plugins to explore...


----------



## sostenuto

GULL said:


> @sostenuto Every post is a guide to my quest, directly or indirectly. I can already searching for information on what @Parsifal666 mentions in his post. Now I know names of dozen synths  Off course, not mere names



Has been rewarding here, and so cool that all of these top synths have solid Demos available. Didn't notice at first pass with Rob Papen but found 'em Blue II Demo just installed, Predator2 maybe soon. Dune 2 done earlier.

Very cool for you to begin evaluation of those you end up with after the culling process!!
You really can't go too far wrong now _ (nor I)


----------



## GULL

MisteR said:


> Zinio.com
> You don't have to subscribe. One issue costs around five bucks. Get the latest issue and you have 72 free instruments/plugins to explore...



Thank you. Very nice plugins. Now I have collection of synths to experiment. 

Madrona Labs Aalto
Alpha (Looks like Crystal)
Bazille (U-he)
Dune
Enkl (monophonic)
Podolski
PolyKB
Repro
Rhino
Triplecheese
TyrellN6
XILS
Zebralette , ZerbraCM

Any suggestion on picking one or two to start with?
Thanks


----------



## Flaneurette

I would start with a modular. Once you understand that, you pretty much know all synths from then on. Otherwise, you'll be chasing synth after synth and preset after preset. Which, of course, isn't criticism, but it's easier, cheaper and faster to create them yourself. (which doesn't mean that I don't use other synths with presets, I do, but it's easier to modify them once you understand how they are created) The learning curve is as steep as learning a new VST. I think it is possible to explain rudimentary synthesis on one sheet of office paper. Reaper has a nice modular synth, written by a member of the Reaper forum. I have been writing presets for it when I have the time. It's really fun: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=181111


----------



## GULL

Flaneurette said:


> start with a modular.


Thanks. That helps.
I will check Reaper


----------



## Parsifal666

XILS IV= SUPER BALLS, not to mention extraordinary experimental capabilities. It's wrongly seen by many as a niche synth only (probably because you could go avante-gard-o-rama on it). It's way more than that.

But there's a STEEP learning curve, so most just opt for Diva or Ace.


----------



## sostenuto

Reaper user here, and love it, but maybe start with one or two on your list ?? 
@ Parsifal666 has good points re. XILS (... and Poly M has just been announced as coming very soon). _Maybe whole new ballgame if analog synth door is opened wide_ .... many strong choices with Repro-1 out there and Repro-5 soon with likely very low-cost Upgrade based on u-he normal practice ?.

One of my solid sources got back __ feels Papen Blue II sonic test quite strong vs Dune2 ..... (just another capable perspective FYI). Will be giving Papen a solid look given his reputation and focus.

Your're on sound footing now and will do fine. _ 'nuther vote for Diva though ....depending on your response to its Demo._


----------



## SymphonicSamples

First Synth, an absolute piece of sh.t , a Korg DS-8 , got it second hand cheap and used it as a controller  Funny thing it resides now inside a 2 manual Hauptwerk Organ I built a few years back as note control trigger and not one of the manuals.


----------



## sostenuto

GULL said:


> Thanks. That helps.
> I will check Reaper



Ha ! You 'owe' us a final report when selections are made ....


----------



## JohnG

Parsifal666 said:


> most just opt for Diva



Diva is awesome.

To answer the OP -- Rhodes Chroma.


----------



## GULL

Watched a u he bazille tutorial video for Bazille CM. Really liking it. Now I am not buying a new synth. I plan to attempt to work with each one from the list I posted


----------



## Parsifal666

GULL said:


> Watched a u he bazille tutorial video for Bazille CM. Really liking it. Now I am not buying a new synth. I plan to attempt to work with each one from the list I posted



Bazille can lend some astonishing results, especially once a programmer wraps his mind around the workflow. A very rewarding synth, though I could conceivably see XILS IV as an excellent substitute (the latter has that aforementioned, crushingly heavy low end...but, unfortunately, an even steeper learning curve than Bazille).


----------



## sostenuto

Parsifal666 said:


> Bazille can lend some astonishing results, especially once a programmer wraps his mind around the workflow. A very rewarding synth, though I could conceivably see XILS IV as an excellent substitute (the latter has that aforementioned, crushingly heavy low end...but, unfortunately, an even steeper learning curve than Bazille).



How do you sort XILS IV and Repro-1 as they exist today? Any sense of how already leaked/announced new Updates will impact this ? and ..... do you feel PolyAna competes here ??


----------



## Parsifal666

sostenuto said:


> How do you sort XILS IV and Repro-1 as they exist today? Any sense of how already leaked/announced new Updates will impact this ? and ..... do you feel PolyAna competes here ??



I know nothing about the other two, but XILS IV is definitely a great synth. You have a two sided monster modular there, with testosterone levels to die for. Not just that...if you're into Stockhausen and/or Parmegiani then you might have found your synth with XILS: it does crazy, out there sounds terrifically well.

If you're turned off by steep learning curves, don't do this one btw.


----------



## CarlLofgren

GULL said:


> I am new to Synths. Never (extensively) used one. Which one you would recommend as my first Synth?



A friend of mine asked me to join the discussion and share some of my thoughts. I've been a synth geek practically all my life. I remember vividly when a friend of mine bought a DX7 and we hammered randomly on the keys and thought we were Kraftwerk and Madness at the same time  Today I am working as a sound designer and I am totally obsessed with sound. My favourite tool is hands down Omnisphere 2. I absolutely love creating libraries for that thing.

That being said, I wouldn't pick Omnisphere as my first synth, not because it costs lots of money, but because it's offers too many options and too many layers that you would just get lost in. Gain some knowledge first and then get Omnisphere. The same goes for Zebra. Incredibly powerful synth. And since both are semi modular it's actually helpful if you have started to develop a certain taste. Taste for a certain kind of oscillators, filters, envelopes, slopes etc.

If I were to pick a synth for one of my friends I would recommend two synths and both are from U-he: Diva or Repro-1. *Repro-1* is the simpler of the two but has an amazing scope. I've been sitting the last week making sounds for it and I am blown away by its simplicity and sound. U-he has really nailed a fantastic combination of usability and clever ways to go way further than with the original Pro One synth. The only downsides of Repro-1 is 1) monophonic and 2) it's pretty hard on your CPU. U-he has a Repro-5 under development which will emulate the original Prophet 5. Which will have five voices and probably fry most modern computers 

*Diva* is a fantastic synth and probably my second favourite soft synth after Omnisphere. It has the simplicity of a old vintage analog synth combined with a clever way to change parts. You like a resonant Moog filter? Two clicks and you have it. You like the raw oscillators from old analogue Korgs? Click-click. Done. It's done in such a simple and organic way that you quickly learn the different characteristics of the parts. So probably just from this perspective I would pick Diva as my first synth. You can set it up to be emulating a polyphonic Minimoog and just keep it like that if you want to. But quite quickly you start changing around the modules and learn to appreciate their characteristics. Diva is an excellent synth that will grow with you for a long long time.

I am not trying to push my soundsets or do some hidden marketing - but I think these soundclips serves as an example of how vast the scope of Diva can be.

First is a typical demo of analog dance sounds. I know you are not interested in EDM, but take a listen just to establish a baseline.



Second up is my latest collection of dark cinematic sounds. Again, not trying to push my own sounds here, but I am still amazed of the sounds I managed to squeeze out from Diva.



/Carl


----------



## Parsifal666

He's right about Diva, being able to mix and match (overall mind-blowing) filters can lead to serious inspiration. And yeah, I'll mention it again: *THAT DIVA SOUND!!!*


----------



## GULL

To
Carl,

Thanks for jumping in. 



CarlLofgren said:


> I wouldn't pick Omnisphere as my first synth,



Totally understand it. 



CarlLofgren said:


> if you have started to develop a certain taste. Taste for a certain kind of oscillators, filters, envelopes, slopes etc.


This really helps to look for.

Thanks for sharing the tracks. I love the second one (obviously 
Astonishing !


----------



## sostenuto

GULL said:


> To
> Carl,
> 
> Thanks for jumping in.
> 
> 
> 
> Totally understand it.
> 
> 
> This really helps to look for.
> 
> Thanks for sharing the tracks. I love the second one (obviously
> Astonishing !



Really pleased that Carl posted directly. I did not feel free to reference him without permission. He has become an amazing long-distance resource (Sweden > USA) and always provides stimuli and guidance when asked. 

@ Gull ... sounds like you are moving forward nicely !


----------



## sostenuto

Parsifal666 said:


> I know nothing about the other two, but XILS IV is definitely a great synth. You have a two sided monster modular there, with testosterone levels to die for. Not just that...if you're into Stockhausen and/or Parmegiani then you might have found your synth with XILS: it does crazy, out there sounds terrifically well.
> 
> If you're turned off by steep learning curves, don't do this one btw.



Have lurked for some time over this. Wow, they are quite proud of it @ $185. ! Just downloaded latest Demo.....

u-he Repro-1 is $99. / _ $88. @ audiodeluxe __ fairly confident upgrade to Repro-5 will be something like $39. 

Hmmmmmm......


----------



## chimuelo

Carl Lofgren....long time no see.
I've gotta see what you've done with Omnisphere.
The stuff you were doing 15 years ago was fantastic on many programming levels.
Your presets for Scope DSP ProWave were killer.

Wasn't my first softy though.
Scope DSP Cards came with dozens of synths and a Modular Synth I still use 16 years later.
But these synths lost their edge in quality once the i7 CPU was released.

Zebra2 HZ was my first love in Native.
Omnisphere has been added and these 2 will keep me busy for quite a while.

Carl Lofgren....damn good to see you again..


----------



## chimuelo

Just bought Deep Ocean Carl....
Gonna be like old times...


----------



## sostenuto

Just gets me pushed to Diva and his new stuff and then Repro-1 pops up 
There really is $$$$ limit .....


----------



## shangsean

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but FAW Circle 2 is a great synth for learning how synths work as there is a lot of animated feedback that shows exactly what's happening.


----------



## GULL

shangsean said:


> I know I'm a bit late to the party, but FAW Circle 2 is a great synth for learning how synths work as there is a lot of animated feedback that shows exactly what's happening.



Thank you. It is not too late 

@Parsifal666 You mentioned Sytrus. How good it is?


----------



## Parsifal666

GULL said:


> Thank you. It is not too late
> 
> @Parsifal666 You mentioned Sytrus. How good it is?



EXCELLENT! But please be warned of the tiny GUI. I actually took FM8 off of my computer because I use Sytrus waaaaay more. Do you want to learn a ton about FM synthesis and applying sound design and all that good stuff to Sytrus? Check out Seamless' tutorials (you have to be a bit patient, because Seamless tends to behave as though he just had a double espresso), they are a treasure trove on those subject. While you're at it, if you want what's for a lot of composers I know a secret weapon, get Harmor. It's a programmer's synth, and it's extremely distinctive, sounds great...and has a helluva learning curve lol! It's set up a lot like Sytrus, so the good news is Seamless often lumps those two together.

When it comes to FM my most used (in order of use) are Sytrus, Nemesis (BALLSY *MON*STER!), and to a degree (though they aren't specialized toward FM) Blue II and of course Zebra/HZ.


----------



## GULL

Parsifal666 said:


> Check out Seamless' tutorials



Great! I am going there...


----------



## chillbot

I see that you guys are still discussing this. Has anyone mentioned Omni yet?


----------



## GULL

chillbot said:


> I see that you guys are still discussing this. Has anyone mentioned Omni yet?



haha... Omni has been mentioned by many  No debate it seems


----------



## sostenuto

chillbot said:


> I see that you guys are still discussing this. Has anyone mentioned Omni yet?



Early on, but many concerns about complexity that comes with Omni2 capabilities. Hard to argue with that, but so many tutorials out there ... Cost is of some concern as well.

@ Gull; @ Parsifal666; in addition to my _lesser skills todate_,  one area I differ is using Presets heavily to observe Settings and learn / vary as desired. This is a major reason for leaning to solid providers and popular synths, as they have so may top quality presets and expansions. When I hear what I like .... immediately look at Settings and make note of how they may vary from other favs from the past. Even Omni2 is fine for this, yet depth /pages of possibilities is staggering. BTW _ included Effects in Omni2 is impressive, and some top Library sources often add their own often. PlugInGuru has major FX folder for his Libraries.


----------



## Lawson.

Omnisphere is by far the best synth to start out with, and possibly the best one in general.


----------



## GULL

Lawson. said:


> Omnisphere is by far the best synth to start out with, and possibly the best one in general.



Is there a demo version of Omnisphere? I didn't find one.


----------



## sostenuto

GULL said:


> Is there a demo version of Omnisphere? I didn't find one.



@ $499.  BUT .... the Spectrasonics site has pages of Tutorials for most important functions. Sure, does not allow you to manipulate on your system, but I think your would get a decent feel for the User Interface and how things are accessed/changed. Those most recent PlugInGuru.com Videos (mentioned before) Oscillators, Filters, Envelopes .... jump around a lot, but provide reasonable feel for how capable users work with Omni2. 
Honestly believe time spent in these two sites would minimize your risk if purchased. Omnisphere 1 was my first serious Synth, then update to Omni2, and have never, ever, regretted the decision. 
Likely why I struggle so hard to spend 'real' $$$ on Diva, Zebra2, Papen, Repro-1, others, when not really solid on what I'm gaining at this point, that can't be done with Omni2 + focused 3rd party Libraries. ......


----------



## JohnG

Omni is fantastic, Diva is fantastic, Zebra's incarnations are fantastic.

thanks to @CarlLofgren for chiming in.


----------



## sostenuto

and ..... the answer is ...... ????


----------



## Farkle

sostenuto said:


> and ..... the answer is ...... ????



Roland Juno 106.


----------



## sostenuto

Farkle said:


> Roland Juno 106.


easy peasy _ Many Juno in Omni2 and Trilian has great Juno 106 patches.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

GULL said:


> I am new to Synths. Never (extensively) used one. Which one you would recommend as my first Synth?
> 
> Thanks in advance



I would disagree with Carl's assessment here for a variety of reasons.

Briefly, Omnisphere offers a clearly layed out and easy to get into graphical user interface. Of course, and this counts for ever learning experience, you have to maintain a certain discipline.

There is also excellent learning material available, I would recommend to study these to begin with: https://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/omnisphere-101-omnisphere-2-explored

Then go deeper as you require.

Further, it is an assumption only as you were tight lipped in what you want to do, I guess you want to make music as well, and not exclusively work on your bachelor thesis of LFO abduction cycles. 

Here you could approach Omnisphere two fold, you learn synthesiser basics is the one side, the other is you quickly learn how to approach and build your own Multi's in Live and/or Stack mode. The latter you will pick up VERY quickly!!

Watch this Omnisphere Tutorial LIVE MODE for an impression: https://www.spectrasonics.net/video/videos.php?p=2&f=&q=&InstrumentID=all&VideoTypeID=3

I would describe LIVE mode as a never ending pool of inspiration for quick improvisations. I made this quick Improvisation here a few years ago for a friend who wanted to know how this looks like in a single instance of Omnisphere, and of course, depending on your computer power, you can load many instances of Omnisphere, so this is just one.



You will gain immediate inspiration and fun in working with Omnisphere. It might trigger your curiousity to go deeper and deeper into the "HAL9000 of Synthesis".

Best
G


----------



## sostenuto

G.R. Baumann said:


> I would disagree with Carl's assessment here for a variety of reasons.
> 
> Briefly, Omnisphere offers a clearly layed out and easy to get into graphical user interface. Of course, and this counts for ever learning experience, you have to maintain a certain discipline.
> 
> There is also excellent learning material available, I would recommend to study these to begin with: https://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/omnisphere-101-omnisphere-2-explored
> 
> Then go deeper as you require.
> 
> Further, it is an assumption only as you were tight lipped in what you want to do, I guess you want to make music as well, and not exclusively work on your bachelor thesis of LFO abduction cycles.
> 
> Here you could approach Omnisphere two fold, you learn synthesiser basics is the one side, the other is you quickly learn how to approach and build your own Multi's in Live and/or Stack mode. The latter you will pick up VERY quickly!!
> 
> Watch this Omnisphere Tutorial LIVE MODE for an impression: https://www.spectrasonics.net/video/videos.php?p=2&f=&q=&InstrumentID=all&VideoTypeID=3
> 
> I would describe LIVE mode as a never ending pool of inspiration for quick improvisations. I made this quick Improvisation here a few years ago for a friend who wanted to know how this looks like in a single instance of Omnisphere, and of course, depending on your computer power, you can load many instances of Omnisphere, so this is just one.
> 
> 
> 
> You will gain immediate inspiration and fun in working with Omnisphere. It might trigger your curiousity to go deeper and deeper into the "HAL9000 of Synthesis".
> 
> Best
> G




No reason to argue with this perspective. Feel fortunate to have been exposed to Spectrasonics so early in my pursuits and have had their 'trio' for years. Your emphasis of LIVE Mode and Omni2 Multi possibilities is something OP should explore seriously. Have stated before how much emphasis should be placed on time, talent, effort investment ...... far beyond initial monetary cost. Believe this deeply and share your encouragement for OP to dig deep into Omni2 before moving forward.


----------



## GULL

G.R. Baumann said:


> it is an assumption only as you were tight lipped


lol... I use to get some Kontakt based instruments for sounds so far. Last week I was in need of creating something right from scratch as I could not find suitable sound sample. So I though I should learn some sound synthesis. 

Thanks for your help


----------



## GULL

Thanks @G.R. Baumann The introductory video http://play.macprovideo.com/omnisphere-101-omnisphere-2-explored/1 (1. What is Omnisphere?) helped to get the basic idea of the product.


----------



## José Herring

I think I'm going to say something opposite of what everybody else is saying. Use any simple synth that comes with your daw. If you have Cubase you can use Retrgrade, ect. Learn those inside out. Then once you can get those sounding good you'll have a basis of comparison as to why other advanced synths are so great. 

To give you a comparison I've been programming synths for a while. I started with Thor in Reason. I hardly use that any more having gone over to analog and more advanced softsynths, but believe it or not, because Thor was my first, I'm faster at program that one than any other synth and really could get about 60 percent of my synths sounds from Thor should I need to use synth sounds. 

The basic synth has osc (sound sources), envelopes (sound shapers), filters (timber shapers), LFO (sound modifiers) and an amp (sound output). Once you got those basics down then you can branch out in the Omnispere world or other synths like MPowerSynth or Zebra. 

Also, getting a hardware synth like Microbrute or Korg Minilogue is a good investment. They don't cost much more than a softsyth and you have real knobs to tweak; they will get you some good sounding stuff and basis of comparison. Also, you have to get damn creative when there's only one filter and one envelop on the synth.


----------



## GULL

josejherring said:


> getting a hardware synth like Microbrute or Korg Minilogue is a good investment



Is there a specific benefit of hardware synths?


----------



## sostenuto

GULL said:


> Is there a specific benefit of hardware synths?



Heh heh !!! _"... you have real knobs to tweak;"_ 

@ GULL you have been serious and persistent throughout.
Have long used Omni2, Trilian, Stylus RMX, NI Komplete10 Ultimate synths, ... which makes it a true struggle to step up and add Serum, or Diva, or Zebra2 .... _yet_.
One interest had indeed been peaked .... analog synths. Omni2 has many great ones, and for pure 'sound', also have Arturia Analog Lab ..... yet just added u-he Repro-1 for more exposure and comparison. Since my MIDI Keyboards/ Controllers have many 'KNOBS', I can tweak them to my heart's content!

You surely noticed that almost all responders have a reasonable list of synths .... reflecting a typical lust for more and different tools to meet personal and project needs. So, enjoy your search and KNOW that some other goodies will always be on the horizon.


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## GULL

sostenuto said:


> "... you have real knobs to tweak;"


lol

But there can be a good reason.


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## José Herring

GULL said:


> Is there a specific benefit of hardware synths?


Debatable. Depends on the application. I personally think that you need all types of synths. Mostly it depends on the programmer. I just feel that with hardware and modular especially you just get a sound that's hard to mimic digitally. 

But if you get hardware do your research because some companies like Roland are producing this analog modeling hardware synth which makes no sense to me because it's basically just a computer with knobs on it.


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## Saxer

GULL said:


> Is there a specific benefit of hardware synths?


Turning knobs by mouse on a screen is like eating soup while holding the spoon with chinese chop sticks.


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## GULL

Saxer said:


> Turning knobs by mouse on a screen is like eating soup while holding the spoon with chinese chop sticks.


Perfect!

Synth programing can benefit from control surfaces i guess


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## Parsifal666

There is a certain *presence* to hardware synths' sound. It can be very physical, sometimes the lows definitely give your heart a thump.

But then, I've heard sounds not dissimilar from soft synths like XILS IV, Diva, Z3ta.


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## Voider

If you keep overthinking it this thread is gonna have 15 pages in a week and you're still not having your first synth and learning synthesis. Honestly, just do it  And don't start with a $399 synth (omnisphere 2) or hardware because too expensive for the start. When you're starting out, you first need to get involved at all. Only when you're inside the process and have learned, you know what you actually want and need and from there you can expand and get the specific synth that complements your collection.

I would still say, wait for summer sale and buy one of those mid-pricerange synths like Dune 2 or just start out with Syntorial if you are serious about learning how to create sounds in depth. 

You don't need the killer machine for the beginning. Start small, that also makes sure that you're not quickly becoming overwhelmed. You can even start with free ones and learn synthesis via youtube tutorials and written guides or just by reading the manual and reverse-engineering patches that come with the factory content. Until you hit the limits there and know them inside out, the next christmas or summer sale will be avaiable within range if there is really the need for a new synth then.


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## Parsifal666

Voider said:


> If you keep overthinking it this thread is gonna have 15 pages in a week and you're still not having your first synth and learning synthesis. Honestly, just do it  And don't start with a $399 synth (omnisphere 2) or hardware because too expensive for the start. When you're starting out, you first need to get involved at all. Only when you're inside the process and have learned, you know what you actually want and need and from there you can expand and get the specific synth that complements your collection.
> 
> I would still say, wait for summer sale and buy one of those mid-pricerange synths like Dune 2 or just start out with Syntorial if you are serious about learning how to create sounds in depth.
> 
> You don't need the killer machine for the beginning. Start small, that also makes sure that you're not quickly becoming overwhelmed. You can even start with free ones and learn synthesis via youtube tutorials and written guides or just by reading the manual and reverse-engineering patches that come with the factory content. Until you hit the limits there and know them inside out, the next christmas or summer sale will be avaiable within range if there is really the need for a new synth then.



Truth. Sylenth might be your perfect choice. Far from the most complicated, really simple to modulate and learn, and imo it sounds terrific to this very day. A good set of balls there too, but you can get wonderful sweetness.


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## sostenuto

... of course, the 'spectacular sounds' YOU hear, no matter your choice, are going to be through YOUR ears, in YOUR room, using YOUR speakers/headphones and YOUR audio system. 

The 'smiley' is a great, single-character representation of a response to myriads of posts re. every possible synth, sound library, patch, ...... ever conceived ___ through 'their' ears, 'their' room, 'their' speakers/headphones and 'their' audio systems, and what ever 'uncontrollable' ambient noise they live with.
No criticism here .... just reality and factors YOU must evaluate moving forward ....
That incredible touchy, feely knobby, analog hardware synth still plugs into YOUR system .... hopefully with at least _Mogami _cables !!!!


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## GULL

Thank you everyone taking time to post. After starting this thread, I have become familiar with many synths and synth types. Now I can see I have bunch of synths to start learning. I have started creating simple sounds with Bazille CM already. I plan to work with different types of synths.

I believe I will be able to choose one right for me after some experience with the free/basic synths. Hopefully in coming summer sales as @Voider said.

Again, I thank everyone for taking time help me here.


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## Rohann

If I can jump in for a second, hopefully without hijacking this (and avoiding making another thread on the same topic)...

I'm debating the same thing right now. I'm having fun making my own sounds via simple automation effects and stacking instruments, but I'd love a synth with which I can do it creatively and less arduously, as well as add my own sounds and more easily tweak them.

Looking more into
I'm also considering Omnisphere 2, Zebra 2, Reaktor 6, and Kontakt.

Is Omnisphere 2 flexible enough to emulate what some Kontakt libraries can do? Kontakt is drawing me because of third-party libraries like Dark Matter and Dark Matter 2, though my ignorance on synths is preventing me from figuring out if other synths can emulate this sort of thing. The benefit of full Kontakt would be for these libraries (relatively inexpensive) as well as things like Spitfire's Labs and the like, but I don't seem to pick up too much about people owning Kontakt Full all that often...


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## Chandler

Kontakt is a sample player and the other things you mentioned are synths. Of course you can make samples with synths, but the samples will be much less flexible. If you want synth sounds I'd buy a synth and learn how to use it instead of using a sampler. Of course samples will give you more instant gratification, they aren't very tweakble and they're expensive.

That said Kontakt is a great thing to have, but IMO it is much more useful for acoustic instruments than synth sounds. 

Isn't komplete on sale now? It has lots of synths and Kontakt included I believe.


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## Rohann

Chandler said:


> Kontakt is a sample player and the other things you mentioned are synths. Of course you can make samples with synths, but the samples will be much less flexible. If you want synth sounds I'd buy a synth and learn how to use it instead of using a sampler. Of course samples will give you more instant gratification, they aren't very tweakble and they're expensive.
> 
> That said Kontakt is a great thing to have, but IMO it is much more useful for acoustic instruments than synth sounds.
> 
> Isn't komplete on sale now? It has lots of synths and Kontakt included I believe.


Good point. Hmm.

Quite honestly, the main draw for Kontakt are 3rd party synths like Dark Matter and Dark Matter 2 that contain complex acoustic sounds manipulated by a synth engine. I'm just not sure how replicable something like that would be with a synth like Omnisphere -- the extend of my synth experience has been with things like Xpand2 and the like, which had some interesting parameters but would likely not be something I'd pay a much more than the $1 I paid for it. If Omnisphere can accomplish most of what 3rd party Kontakt libraries can, then great, but there are quite a few interestingly sampled Kontakt instruments I've come across that allow one to manipulate a variety of really fascinating acoustic sounds.

Considering the main differences, is there one you'd opt for for sound design purposes?

Komplete upgrades are on sale, but are still quite expensive compared to Kontakt.


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## CarlLofgren

chimuelo said:


> Carl Lofgren....long time no see.
> I've gotta see what you've done with Omnisphere.
> The stuff you were doing 15 years ago was fantastic on many programming levels.
> Your presets for Scope DSP ProWave were killer.
> 
> Wasn't my first softy though.
> Scope DSP Cards came with dozens of synths and a Modular Synth I still use 16 years later.
> But these synths lost their edge in quality once the i7 CPU was released.
> 
> Zebra2 HZ was my first love in Native.
> Omnisphere has been added and these 2 will keep me busy for quite a while.
> 
> Carl Lofgren....damn good to see you again..



First of all... a big apology for not writing back directly. I literately drowned in cables - rewired my studio four times before I finally settled. Sometimes I feel like having a home studio is a bit like Lego for mad people 

Thank you for your kind words - those were the days  Yes, Scope _has_ lost a bit of its edge. I love Diva, Omnisphere and Repro-1 - all amazing synthesizers. But there is something incredibly nice with that old DSP platform. I actually miss parts of it. Don't think Sonic Core ever could get back to their former glory - but I do miss having Scope in the background with its virtual channels and mixers. You really could do some crazy stuff with it.

I'll try to be a bit more active here - Gearslutz is mostly just making me depressed 

/C


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## chimuelo

Gearslutz is old Northern Sound Fossils trying to lecture young upstarts who moan like babies on anything over 50 bucks...
Not a good combination.


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## SoNowWhat?

Thank you to all the contributors in this thread. Some great stuff in here.
I'm so very grateful that many of the devs provide demos. This is excellent for trialling some of their kit and finding what works for you. 
I really love the u-he synths. They are so completely wonderful in the sounds they produce. Filters are like double cream, so unctious. I'm also quite taken with Dune 2 when I wasn't expecting to be. Was surprised that I didn't instantly fall in love with Zebra but maybe we need more time together. I'm going to look at Xils4 and Pappen Blue 2 as well.
Anyway, that's possibly all besides the point as I've just ordered Omnisphere from a local sale. That should keep me occupied for a while.


Happy now @chillbot


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## chillbot

Yes. Wait, no. What? What about the OP tho.


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## Parsifal666

chimuelo said:


> Gearslutz is old Northern Sound Fossils trying to lecture young upstarts who moan like babies on anything over 50 bucks...
> Not a good combination.



Really? I mean, I knew Gearslutz was bad but last I checked there was some valuable information on the Northern sounds forum.

Or maybe that's because I'm a Fossil (just not a Northern Sound variety, *VI-Fossils be Gangstas For LIFE, yo!*).



Btw, I'd be the biggest hypocrite around if I discouraged others from buying anything over 50 US...I just spent 440 and will be spending 400 the first week of July lol!


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## chimuelo

Northern Sounds was great.
But members there never whined about nickels and dimes.
Hell some of us spent 3 large on Miraslav.
GS has dozens of children who were never spanked.

I often quote Achilles from Homers Illyiad.
When the little darlings exclaim they will never pay 199 for a great synth, I quote them and say "And that is why no one will remember your name."


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## Parsifal666

chimuelo said:


> Northern Sounds was great.
> But members there never whined about nickels and dimes.
> Hell some of us spent 3 large on Miraslav.
> GS has dozens of children who were never spanked.
> 
> I often quote Achilles from Homers Illyiad.
> When the little darlings exclaim they will never pay 199 for a great synth, I quote them and say "And that is why no one will remember your name."



I think 199 is all that keeps a person from Zebra...talk about a great synth investment. The rewards are many, and consistent.


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## synthpunk

Of course many of us old curmudgeons remember when $199 was a down payment on a good hardware synth 



Parsifal666 said:


> I think 199 is all that keeps a person from Zebra...talk about a great synth investment. The rewards are many, and consistent.


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## SoNowWhat?

Parsifal666 said:


> *VI-Fossils be Gangstas For LIFE, yo!*


It's straight outta a Wagner libretto.


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## SoNowWhat?

chillbot said:


> Yes. Wait, no. What? What about the OP tho.


For the OP looking for a first synth I would suggest almost anything from U-he. I guess a caveat on Zebra that it will almost certainly require more work to get to grips with.
I really like Dune 2 and I think it's possible to get your head around it fairly quickly (it's hard to put yourself into the headspace of a you with no experience of synthesis and I wouldn't say I had a lot).
Having said that I am really digging the Papen Blue 2 synth. If the OP is looking for sound design capabilities it has some very interesting presets. So does the Xils but I'm finding it less approachable (which is in keeping with what @Parsifal666 said above.

Personally, in addition to a flexible set of sound creation options I have to enjoy the actual sound of the thing, and with the U-he's, Dune 2 and Blue 2, I do. No reports back on Omni 2 yet as it's currently installing.


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## sostenuto

Omni2 was a solid choice. 
Repeat Dune 2 comment ... pay careful attention to 'sound' vs alternatives.
Blue2 is strong addition.

Zebra2 would be helluva partner with Omni2 ... for _committed_ learner. IMHO 

Congrats on cool first move !!


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## mc_deli

chimuelo said:


> When the little darlings exclaim they will never pay 199 for a great synth, I quote them and say "And that is why no one will remember your name."


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## synthpunk

Usually tell kids to start with the free U-he synths (Podolski, Tyrell N6, Zebralette), and free OBXD. Really good learning tools that sound great.


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## Parsifal666

I'm going to throw something out there. Tone 2 accepts resales, but every time I go to sell *Electra 2* I make the mistake of opening it and programming it and...

*Electra 2* is an _excellent_ synth, terrific sound (one of the few which feature good onboard effects), plenty of programming features, plus PCM-encoded files can be imported.

Another excellent pair (though more niche) are the *PPG Wavemapper* and *Wavegenerator*, which work amazing together and are no joke as synths in and of themselves. They're probably best as secret weapons, so you never heard it from me 

I'm mentioning them because I felt they've been neglected in these forums, and they are superb instruments. Not as far ranging as *Zebra/Hz*, or *Omnisphere*, but I definitely won't be selling them anytime soon.


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## Living Fossil

After all those years owning Reaktor (but never using it) i had an amazing experience with Reaktor 6 in the last days... (Thanks to @synthpunk for repeatedly mentioning it...  )
It came with the Komplete update and i took some hours to give it a try.
And after realizing what immense potential all those user ensembles and elements have, i think that Reaktor could possibly be an amazing "first synth". You can begin with some simple blocks (Oscillator, Envelopes, Filter) and work your way up to granular/spectral madness. It has the potential of being used as an incredibly comprehensive tutorial.


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## SoNowWhat?

synthpunk said:


> Usually tell kids to start with the free U-he synths (Podolski, Tyrell N6, Zebralette), and free OBXD. Really good learning tools that sound great.


I think this is very good advice.


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## synthpunk

That's great to hear. Much like my first encounter with really good soft synths about 5 years ago and having that first wow moment.



Living Fossil said:


> After all those years owning Reaktor (but never using it) i had an amazing experience with Reaktor 6 in the last days... (Thanks to @synthpunk for repeatedly mentioning it...  )
> It came with the Komplete update and i took some hours to give it a try.
> And after realizing what immense potential all those user ensembles and elements have, i think that Reaktor could possibly be an amazing "first synth". You can begin with some simple blocks (Oscillator, Envelopes, Filter) and work your way up to granular/spectral madness. It has the potential of being used as an incredibly comprehensive tutorial.


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