# Berlin strings - official announcement [update 1.6]



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Hey guys,

we´re proud to announce the release of the BERLIN STRINGS main library.
After more than 8 months of development and more than 2 weeks of recording sessions, this library will become the most extensive release since we started the Orchestral Tools sampling project.

Here a first look about the concept and our thoughts on Berlin Strings.



The release for BERLIN STRINGS is scheduled for next month.
More info soon!

All the best,
Hendrik and the whole OT Team

*CHAPTER I: Short Notes*

http://youtu.be/t4k2lDCSDAc

*CHAPTER II: Legato*

http://youtu.be/M2P3Mij7_U8

*CHAPTER III: Playable Glissandi & Dynamics*

http://youtu.be/aWbZHWN-dZI


*Mic Positions Demo*

1. All mics on
2. Concert Master mic
3. AB mics
4. TREE mics
5. CLOSE mics
6. SURROUND mics

[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/BST_Mic_Demo.mp3[/mp3]


*Trépak* (mockup made by Sascha Knorr)
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/berlin_strings_trepak.mp3[/mp3]


*Aerial Boarding* by Hendrik Schwarzer
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F127279202&secret_url=false[/flash] 


*Aase's Death* mockup made by Sascha Knorr
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_aases_death.mp3[/mp3]

*Passing Seasons* by Ben Botkin
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_passing_seasons.mp3[/mp3]

*And Now the News* by Craig Sharmat
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_and_now_the_news.mp3[/mp3]

*Sky Passage* by Blakus
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_sky_passage.mp3[/mp3]


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## Malo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

BRAVO, Hendrik! Really looking forward to this. :D


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## jamwerks

Congrats OT team!

No more info you want to add? Before tomorrow?
I have décisions to make....


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## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Excellent concept for strings. BWW - exp b adaptive legato just 'works' - well this certainly makes me take pause on a decision I must make in the next day or two. :?


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## Goran

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

The concepts described in the video do sound convincing. I'm looking forward to listening to first offical demos...


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## Walid F.

Bravo! 

You guys are the best. A really fantastic stage, with great musicians and a fabulous developing crew - You bring us the best. 

Also, Hendrik, I love how you germans say "articoolation" :D

Can't wait for this!


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## korgscrew

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Wow!

Going to hold off on Cinestrings for now!

If its the strings on the background tracks, Wow!!

By the way, stop releasing near xmas! Ill have no money left to buy any presents!


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## R.Cato

So we have CineStrings, Spitfire Symphonic Strings, Berlin Strings and probably the new string series by 8dio comming. Don't forget the Dimension Strings by VSL.... Holy moly! Can't count all the options for strings anymore.

Great times ahead.


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## damstraversaz

very interesting, especially before black friday !
do you have an idea of the price range ?


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## Guy Rowland

Yes, some very interesting ideas here, keen to hear more.

I'm guessing that the background music doesn't feature strings from the library? Just a pet thing of mine, I'd prefer the music mixed much quieter relative to the dialogue in these videos, as it a) makes it harder to hear the conversation and b) it's distracting, since you're thinking "but if that isn't what they're talking about, why is it so loud?" And if it IS from the library, can't we hear it without the conversation


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## Hannes_F

+1


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## Markus S

R.Cato @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> So we have CineStrings, Spitfire Symphonic Strings, Berlin Strings and probably the new string series by 8dio comming. Don't forget the Dimension Strings by VSL.... Holy moly! Can't count all the options for strings anymore.
> 
> Great times ahead.



Agreed but to my ears, there still is nothing that matches the sound of live strings, so I am really excited and curious about this project.


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## The Darris

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Within the next two years I will most likely have a Sony Template, a Air Lyndhurst Template, and a Teldex Template. Sigh....I'm okay with that. All of these libraries sound great and are fun to play but having the whole orchestra in one room with such diversity and quality of sound makes the writing process more fluid. I can't wait to see more about this library.


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## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Aaaaand, that's enough right there to put the purchases I was _JUST_ about to make 'on hold'. REALLY looking forward to more info on Berlin Strings. I have to agree that the newest BWW 1.6 Legato just works. I'm also REALLY hoping the strings will have the articulation performer right off the bat and measured trills too.


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## Symfoniq

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



The Darris @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Within the next two years I will most likely have a Sony Template, a Air Lyndhurst Template, and a Teldex Template.



It's a conundrum, isn't it? Not wanting to deal with the trouble of mixing libraries recorded in different rooms is why I'm currently sticking with VSL libraries inside MIR. It's possible that the Orchestral Tools libraries would work extremely well with VSL since MIR has Teldex impulse responses, but many other great libraries introduced in the last few years are a difficult investment to justify when they aren't completely compatible with the samples in which I'm already heavily invested.

And to be clear, I'm not saying that the approach of recording dry and adding reverb later is the ideal. It just seems like we're getting to the point where we have almost enough control over the virtual instruments, but not nearly enough control over their environment.

That said, I'll be following Berlin Strings with great interest. Teldex has a great sound.


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## jamwerks

Being only 6 weeks off, you'd thing they'd provide something like a list of articulations, mic positions, some audio, something!.......


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## lucor

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Looks very promising!
I'm still going to get CineStrings tomorrow, though. Finally having a Sony-only Template will be just great and I guess it will still be some time until we see Berlin Brass and Berlin Perc.
Still really excited about this, hope to see some Demos soon. :mrgreen:


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## Echoes in the Attic

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

The whole adaptive legato looks very interesting.

I wonder if it will have polyphonic legato. The winds don't right? Although I suppose INTUITION may solve this anyways if there are smaller divisi sections.


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## Walid F.

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Haha, I'm very sure many developers of string samples are cursing at this announcement just before Black friday. Wonder how many buyers you have seduced your way, OT... :twisted:


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## korgscrew

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

This Announcement came just before a few major libraries are to be released. 

OT....You are Devils... :twisted:


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## germancomponist

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Interesting that now a developer speaks out what I am telling here for years when it comes to do the recordings for a (strings)-sample library... . (From 7.00 on...)

I hope that my befriended german engineer did not reveal all the things what I told him . when I talked with him about my planning to do a string library.


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## BenG

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Very exciting and the concepts sound truly innovative. I love the playability and articulations featured in BWW and I can only imagine strings will be done with the same attention to detail. 

Congrats to Hendrik and his team for the announcement!!!


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## Casiquire

I'd like a bit more info on the adaptive legato--for example, is this something the user has control over as well? Because I'm really not a fan of those types of "speed"-related articulation changes since Kontakt (or just about any current sampler) doesn't know what you're going to play before you play it. So if you're playing an expressive slow part which then turns into a run, you miss the first note of the run because the sampler is stuck playing a slow transition for the first note, not realizing the transition itself is longer than the note into which it is attempting to transition.

(Hint to developers out there, this is why we need to change the current model of sample libraries from a RE-active approach to a PRO-active approach where the library knows the notes you're going to play before you play them....)

Anyway nice video, and like everyone else here I'm wondering what's playing in the background! Sounds really good, if that's Berlin Strings.


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## rJames

jamwerks @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Being only 6 weeks off, you'd thing they'd provide something like a list of articulations, mic positions, some audio, something!.......



Should be quite simple to put together a "shorts" demo. It would behoove you to do that ASAP... and more details like an articulation list.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Hi guys,

thanks very much for your interest. The strings in the video are from an early beta version of Berlin Strings. The library will include all the main articulations for strings. Beside the adaptive legato patch we will also have a playable RR ostinato legato patch, extensive shorts, dynamics, and a few more bonbon articulations, which will bring new colors to your music.

Details, demos and walkthroughs will follow...


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## Walid F.

I'm throwing money at the screen, but nothing's happening...


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## Rob Elliott

Walid F. @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> I'm throwing money at the screen, but nothing's happening...




Ok - NOW that was funny!!!


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## MacQ

Casiquire @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> I'm really not a fan of those types of "speed"-related articulation changes since Kontakt (or just about any current sampler) doesn't know what you're going to play before you play it.



+1

The problem is how do you look ahead and be live-playable at the same time? You can't, really. Synful has a latency, Wallander NotePerformer, the same. It can lead to more realistic results, and is more akin to writing for a live section, but with the limitation that they're not playing directly with you on the stick. Which may be fine for how some people work, but I need that smoothly deft movement in real-time. Anyway, I'm always curious to see how other developers tackle the expression problem.

What's puzzling to me is that all of these libraries sound so different. Sable isn't Cinematic Strings isn't LASS isn't EWQL ... though they're all ostensibly sampling the same type of instrument ensemble. What's great now ultimately is that I can pick an acoustic sound I prefer, and know that my samples will let me write some great music. If I ever get around to it.


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## Jordan Gagne

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> thanks very much for your interest. The strings in the video are from an early beta version of Berlin Strings. The library will include all the main articulations for strings. Beside the adaptive legato patch we will also have a playable RR ostinato legato patch, extensive shorts, dynamics, and a few more bonbon articulations, which will bring new colors to your music.
> 
> Details, demos and walkthroughs will follow...



Wait, the background music was a MOCKUP? :shock:


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## quantum7

Wow! Another library to go on my "to buy" list. I cannot wait to see a walk-through next month. Considering Cinesamples is releasing their string lib tomorrow, I'm guessing they may be the only ones not excited about this. I'm guessing, though, that Berlin Strings will be more expensive than CSS, taking the price of BWW into account.



Jordan Gagne @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Nov 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> The strings in the video are from an early beta version of Berlin Strings.
> 
> Details, demos and walkthroughs will follow...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, the background music was a MOCKUP? :shock:
Click to expand...


Really? I better watch that video again.


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## thebob

Casiquire @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> (Hint to developers out there, this is why we need to change the current model of sample libraries from a RE-active approach to a PRO-active approach where the library knows the notes you're going to play before you play them....)



you mean : some kind of look-ahead that works once the performance midi score is done, or some kind of precognition that knows what you will do before you do it >8o ?


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## Maestro77

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Serious strings war going on right now. Cinesamples was about to take over until OT and Spitfire sent in reinforcements in the final hour. I feel sry for the Mikes, having this dropped on them 1 day prior to release. I hope it doesn't hurt sales too much. I would love to hear a price for OT's library asap though. That would certainly be a big factor for many of us. And is it REALLY coming out in December?


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## Guy Rowland

MacQ @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Casiquire @ Mon Nov 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really not a fan of those types of "speed"-related articulation changes since Kontakt (or just about any current sampler) doesn't know what you're going to play before you play it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> The problem is how do you look ahead and be live-playable at the same time? You can't, really. Synful has a latency, Wallander NotePerformer, the same. It can lead to more realistic results, and is more akin to writing for a live section, but with the limitation that they're not playing directly with you on the stick. Which may be fine for how some people work, but I need that smoothly deft movement in real-time. Anyway, I'm always curious to see how other developers tackle the expression
Click to expand...


Do you mean the adaptive legato? I can see you'd need to play ahead slightly but I don't see how an "intelligent" system would be any different to regular legato - I always have to play (or edit) ahead a little when playing legato. You play note A, and overlap with note B, so you trigger the legato. The only difference here is that depending on the time difference, one of three different transitions are triggered. Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't see how it introduces any need to "look ahead" (or maybe you guys were talking about something other than adaptive legato of course).

I've been saying for some time that time-dependent legato selection is a really promising way forward, great someone is trying it.

Hendrik - yay, put up that Beta track! Sounded very good - it's just super-distracting trying to hear that AND listen at the same time.


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## Jack Weaver

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Hey German guys,

For the record, in English speaking countries BS is a bad acronym for a new product. 

Just thought you'd like to know...

.


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## quantum7

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Maestro77 @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Serious strings war going on right now. Cinesamples was about to take over until OT and Spitfire sent in reinforcements in the final hour. I feel sry for the Mikes, having this dropped on them 1 day prior to release. I hope it doesn't hurt sales too much. I would love to hear a price for OT's library asap though. That would certainly be a big factor for many of us. And is it REALLY coming out in December?



If BWW is over $600, I cannot help thinking their strings would also be that...or more, by the description. I have a feeling that Mikes from Cinesamples should be OK with their killer $400 intro price.


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## RiffWraith

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Jack Weaver @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> For the record, in English speaking countries BS is a bad acronym for a new product.



So is BJs. They seem to be doing ok, tho. :wink:


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## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Jack Weaver @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Hey German guys,
> 
> For the record, in English speaking countries BS is a bad acronym for a new product.
> 
> Just thought you'd like to know...
> 
> .



:D 


Perhaps 

Berlin Orchestral Sampled Strings (BOSS)


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## quantum7

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Rob Elliott @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Jack Weaver @ Mon Nov 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey German guys,
> 
> For the record, in English speaking countries BS is a bad acronym for a new product.
> 
> Just thought you'd like to know...
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :D
> 
> 
> Perhaps
> 
> Berlin Orchestral Sampled Strings (BOSS)
Click to expand...


I agree. BOSS would be.....well.....BOSS!!!


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## RiffWraith

MacQ @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> What's puzzling to me is that all of these libraries sound so different. Sable isn't Cinematic Strings isn't LASS isn't EWQL ... though they're all ostensibly sampling the same type of instrument ensemble.



It's quite simple, actually. Different:

Players
Instruments
Room
Mic pres
Mics
Mic placement
General engineering
Post (?)

All of these are little things, but together they add up. This is why these libs sound different. And that's a good thing...



MacQ @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> What's great now ultimately is that I can pick an acoustic sound I prefer, and know that my samples will let me write some great music.



Trueism! :D


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## Peter Alexander

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> thanks very much for your interest. The strings in the video are from an early beta version of Berlin Strings. The library will include all the main articulations for strings. Beside the adaptive legato patch we will also have a playable RR ostinato legato patch, extensive shorts, dynamics, and a few more bonbon articulations, which will bring new colors to your music.
> 
> Details, demos and walkthroughs will follow...



From the video:

Vlns 1 - 8
Vlns 2 - ?
Vlas - ?
Ces - 5
Bas - 4

All sectionals, no divisi, correct?


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## korgscrew

From the sound of the mock up, those transitions sound gorgeous! So fluid! It's always been a niggle for me that my sable legatos are a tad detache.


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## KingIdiot

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Jack Weaver @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Hey German guys,
> 
> For the record, in English speaking countries BS is a bad acronym for a new product.
> 
> Just thought you'd like to know...
> 
> .



Stop bullshopping 'em jack


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## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Peter Alexander @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Nov 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> thanks very much for your interest. The strings in the video are from an early beta version of Berlin Strings. The library will include all the main articulations for strings. Beside the adaptive legato patch we will also have a playable RR ostinato legato patch, extensive shorts, dynamics, and a few more bonbon articulations, which will bring new colors to your music.
> 
> Details, demos and walkthroughs will follow...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the video:
> 
> Vlns 1 - 8
> Vlns 2 - ?
> Vlas - ?
> Ces - 5
> Bas - 4
> 
> All sectionals, no divisi, correct?
Click to expand...



Oh please let there be unique (different players/instruments) 2nd vlns.


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## Enyak

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Didn't expect Berlin Strings this quickly.

Sehr aufregend, man darf gespannt sein!


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## JE Martinsen

jamwerks @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Congrats OT team!
> 
> No more info you want to add? Before tomorrow?
> I have décisions to make....



Exactly! :lol: 

I was just about to pull the trigger on that one.. But it certainly depends on the price of Berlin Strings, and I have a feeling the price won't be revealed just yet.. I hope I'm wrong though.

Btw, my impression of the CineStrings library is that it has this distinct Hollywood sound (perhaps that's quite obvious, since it's recorded at the Sony stage), and for more classical sounding work (or if you just prefer something else than that larger-than-life blockbuster sound for a piece) it may not be one's first choice? Would the Berlin Strings sound perhaps be as little bit more versatile in that sense? Noob question, I know.. :mrgreen:


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## Inceptic

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Maestro77 @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Serious strings war going on right now. Cinesamples was about to take over until OT and Spitfire sent in reinforcements in the final hour. I feel sry for the Mikes, having this dropped on them 1 day prior to release. I hope it doesn't hurt sales too much. I would love to hear a price for OT's library asap though. That would certainly be a big factor for many of us. And is it REALLY coming out in December?



I'm aware of Cinesamples and OT's announcements, but what has Spitfire recently announced?


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## jamwerks

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Beside the adaptive legato patch we will also have a playable RR ostinato legato patch, extensive shorts, dynamics,.


Thanks for the info. The strings did sound nice on the video. The ostinato legato RR would be a selling point for me.


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## korgscrew

I think that why they went for a smaller section like spitfire and sable. Even though sable has smaller sections, they can sound big with the right mic selections.


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## korgscrew

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Inceptic @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> Maestro77 @ Mon Nov 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Serious strings war going on right now. Cinesamples was about to take over until OT and Spitfire sent in reinforcements in the final hour. I feel sry for the Mikes, having this dropped on them 1 day prior to release. I hope it doesn't hurt sales too much. I would love to hear a price for OT's library asap though. That would certainly be a big factor for many of us. And is it REALLY coming out in December?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm aware of Cinesamples and OT's announcements, but what has Spitfire recently announced?
Click to expand...


Symphonic library. 

This was a "Whoops" post by Paul in the Black Friday thread.


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## quantum7

JE Martinsen @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Btw, my impression of the CineStrings library is that it has this distinct Hollywood sound (perhaps that's quite obvious, since it's recorded at the Sony stage), and for more classical sounding work (or if you just prefer something else than that larger-than-life blockbuster sound for a piece) it may not be one's first choice? Would the Berlin Strings sound perhaps be as little bit more versatile in that sense? Noob question, I know.. :mrgreen:



I would guess that BS would fare better for classical rather than Hollywood. I own BWW and finally got to put it head to head with Cinesamples' Woodwinds at a friend's studio in Seattle last month. CWW definitely has more of a Hollywood sound than BWW. CWW did sound great, but I would use BWW any day of the week for classical....at least for my tastes. They each have there place and I plan on eventually owning both.


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## germancomponist

This is the good thing, that all libraries sound different. It always depends for what do you need one... .


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## Malo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

For the record: Berlin Strings is shortened to BST on their forum - No BS! :mrgreen:


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## Graham Keitch

thebob @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Casiquire @ Mon Nov 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> (Hint to developers out there, this is why we need to change the current model of sample libraries from a RE-active approach to a PRO-active approach where the library knows the notes you're going to play before you play them....)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you mean : some kind of look-ahead that works once the performance midi score is done, or some kind of precognition that knows what you will do before you do it >8o ?
Click to expand...


Apologies if I'm misunderstanding this - but that's what Finale's Human Playback has been doing for almost a decade! It pre-processes the file before beginning playback. Presumably this is a function of the sequencer or notation software rather than the library - but it's nothing new.

Graham


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## thebob

Graham Keitch @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> thebob @ Mon Nov 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Casiquire @ Mon Nov 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> (Hint to developers out there, this is why we need to change the current model of sample libraries from a RE-active approach to a PRO-active approach where the library knows the notes you're going to play before you play them....)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you mean : some kind of look-ahead that works once the performance midi score is done, or some kind of precognition that knows what you will do before you do it >8o ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apologies if I'm misunderstanding this - but that's what Finale's Human Playback has been doing for almost a decade! It pre-processes the file before beginning playback. Presumably this is a function of the sequencer or notation software rather than the library - but it's nothing new.
> 
> Graham
Click to expand...


you got me perfectly. 
I didn't know finale could do that (I'm not using it). it is perhaps trickier to do it inside kontakt, instead of a host ?
funnily enough, I was lately wondering why softwares didn't use this kind of trick.

at first, I was actually wondering if Casiquire wanted a (AI-based) feature that would be predictive "in real-time", before you even played or write the score, hence my >8o


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## Polarity

quantum7 @ Mon 25 Nov said:


> JE Martinsen @ Mon Nov 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, my impression of the CineStrings library is that it has this distinct Hollywood sound (perhaps that's quite obvious, since it's recorded at the Sony stage), and for more classical sounding work (or if you just prefer something else than that larger-than-life blockbuster sound for a piece) it may not be one's first choice? Would the Berlin Strings sound perhaps be as little bit more versatile in that sense? Noob question, I know.. :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would guess that BS would fare better for classical rather than Hollywood. I own BWW and finally got to put it head to head with Cinesamples' Woodwinds at a friend's studio in Seattle last month. CWW definitely has more of a Hollywood sound than BWW. CWW did sound great, but I would use BWW any day of the week for classical....at least for my tastes. They each have there place and I plan on eventually owning both.
Click to expand...


If it so it's again the choice we, or at least me, had many years ago between EW Sound Orchestra and Vienna's one.
I would always go for the Hollywood sound... so for me it's CineSamples at the moment.

If BWW are 549 + 149 + 299 Euros for all three packs, that's a lot more than the Sony's sound... (almost the double converting in euros and adding VAT to the CS bundle)... and I have already CS HollyWoodWinds.
I'd expect Berlin Strings to be about 100 euros more than BWW...

then of course it depends on what you are looking for mainly.


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## Polarity

thebob @ Mon 25 Nov said:


> at first, I was actually wondering if Casiquire wanted a (AI-based) feature that would be predictive "in real-time", before you even played or write the score, hence my >8o



quite impossible! :mrgreen: 

yep, it should work well pre-analyzing the song during playback....
just a few seconds would be enough.


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## dpasdernick

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

It's just so great to watch and listen to two very intelligent, passionate people talking about cool stuff. Such a departure from life in America these days... 

Looks and sounds very cool.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry..

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

The sounds in the background are impressive. I am +1 for putting out audio of it without talking.


----------



## Andrew Christie

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Jordan Gagne @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Nov 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> thanks very much for your interest. The strings in the video are from an early beta version of Berlin Strings. The library will include all the main articulations for strings. Beside the adaptive legato patch we will also have a playable RR ostinato legato patch, extensive shorts, dynamics, and a few more bonbon articulations, which will bring new colors to your music.
> 
> Details, demos and walkthroughs will follow...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, the background music was a MOCKUP? :shock:
Click to expand...


If that is also Berlin Brass I'm very interested! Looking forward to hearing more info


----------



## SF_Guy

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

We've got some great tools these days. I'm excited to pickup all of the complete orchestras: Berlin, Cinesamples, and Spitfire. 

It's great to be able to choose the right sound for a project - its not just about building a great virtual orchestra anymore. Good times! Thanks developers!!! 8) 

Now back to my M1.


----------



## james7275

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Andrew Christie @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Jordan Gagne @ Tue Nov 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Nov 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> thanks very much for your interest. The strings in the video are from an early beta version of Berlin Strings. The library will include all the main articulations for strings. Beside the adaptive legato patch we will also have a playable RR ostinato legato patch, extensive shorts, dynamics, and a few more bonbon articulations, which will bring new colors to your music.
> 
> Details, demos and walkthroughs will follow...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, the background music was a MOCKUP? :shock:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that is also Berlin Brass I'm very interested! Looking forward to hearing more info
Click to expand...



I don't think that is Berlin Brass. Somebody had asked Hendrik about the brass that was used on a demo of his a few months back and he said it was a private brass library of his own. But it does give you a good idea of how good Berlin Brass is going to sound though.

the strings do sound good on the demo, but I was hoping for another brass library to surface next other than more strings.


----------



## Jordan Gagne

God damn, those cellos sound incredible..


----------



## Casiquire

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Thanks for clarifying that the strings in your demo come from an early version of Berlin Strings, I think that just by clarifying that your library gained some serious credibility, and off the heels of BWW it had a lot of credibility to begin with. It's in that light that I apologize if anything I've said can be perceived as critical of your upcoming release, because I really meant it to reveal how deep under-the-hood users could get with the strings.

I was not aware that Finale could pre-render third-party libraries for "precognitive" playback, but in the hands of the developers of a library, that concept can expand much farther. The more that sample libraries push the limits, the more I think the need to expand those limits increases ;o)


----------



## Saxer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

i think a good approach to the previev of playing speed would be the axa standard from presonus and celemony. the daw knows the following notes and can react to that... in opposite to the normal realtime note recognition at the song position line. ok, it would only work for playback and not the recording but hey, no problem if the recording sounds better than the performance...


----------



## JE Martinsen

Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Details, demos and walkthroughs will follow...



This may be a long shot in the dark, but it would definitely be very helpful to know the price of Berlin Strings, or even just a rough estimate - before say.. seven days.. :lol: 

I will then know TWO things.

1. That it'll probably be amazing!

2. If I can afford it or not. And that requires some thinking in my think-hut.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

Just want to drop a note that Berlin Strings is at Native Instruments for encoding now. 

*The Instrument List:*

8 - 1st Violins
6 - 2nd Violins
5 - Violas
5 - Celli
4 - Basses

The section sizes were one of our most important decisions. We wanted to keep the definition and expression without getting a kind of "chamber" sound. 
BTW: The players in the 2nd Violins section are completely different musicians. 

You´ll have access to *4 selected mic positions*:

- Tree
- Surround
- AB
- Close

There will be a special separated mic position for the concert master,
which will help you to push the definition to another level but on the same expression basis.

The instruments are truly extensive sampled. The content counts more than 250GB of sample data (112GB compressed)

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*

I think this is going to be a great library. Is it going to be the definitive string library? No, none is. But listening to the intro I hear a lot of what I think is missing from most/all commercial string libraries: Proper, wide vibrato, e.g. in the cellos in the beginning. The legato by no means sound perfect here but the library isn't finished so there is time to improve it. Also, the smaller section sizes are great news! I have lots of big string sections to choose from (also now that CineStrings is coming out), and I think Berling Strings will make a great companion for that, for when you need to do divisi or want a somewhat smaller sound - or as layering on top of your favourite other library to add that extra vibrato.

Regarding sordinos, I think it's a shame if you cut corners here and deliver a processed version. It is not going to sound the same, and I would really have loved to have these smaller sections playing sordino as well - perhaps in an extension then 8) 

As a sidenote the horns sound very cool too - are those from your custom recordings or from the upcoming Berlin Brass?

Looking much forward to this!


----------



## SymphonicSamples

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Hey , I'd also find it helpful for any information on pricing . I'm about to pull the trigger for a new string library , but unfortunately I don't have a double barrel shot gun , only single , so a decision must be made


----------



## korgscrew

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> Just want to drop a note that Berlin Strings is at Native Instruments for encoding now.
> 
> *The Instrument List:*
> 
> 8 - 1st Violins
> 6 - 2nd Violins
> 5 - Violas
> 5 - Celli
> 4 - Basses
> 
> The section sizes were one of our most important decisions. We wanted to keep the definition and expression without getting a kind of "chamber" sound.
> BTW: The players in the 2nd Violins section are completely different musicians.
> 
> You´ll have access to *4 selected mic positions*:
> 
> - Tree
> - Surround
> - AB
> - Close
> 
> There will be a special separated mic position for the concert master,
> which will help you to push the definition to another level but on the same expression basis.
> 
> The instruments are truly extensive sampled. The content counts more than 250GB of sample data (112GB compressed)
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Jesus Hendrik, 112GB?!?

Sample libraries are getting bigger and bigger!!

Also, Im liking this no fuss, out in a few weeks approach! 8)


----------



## ed buller

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

hmmm...sounds lovely . Interesting sizes to. Half the size of cinestrings in terms of players . I wonder if they have done layered patches for a bigger sound ?

e


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

@ Hendrik, Thanks for the info! What is the "AB" mic position? Having 5 different options for mic's (including the first chair mic) is a great move on your part.

You probably have your own announcement plans, but imo, if you were to give your articulations list, and possibly also the lists for you expansion packs, you might get even more buyers (e.g. people would hold off on the other Library out today and wait for yours), even if you don't specify yet the price.

As for the sordinos, if your technology could get us 75% there, it might be worth it not to rerecord those. 

Cheers...


----------



## Guy Rowland

Cer-ikey. I think this is a library that cries out for a separate default stereo mic mix, to keep the resource use within manageable limits.


----------



## Saxer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

112 GB... could be worth to visit berlin to pick up all the gibagytes personally


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

@Saxer: Haha, we´re just sitting here at the moment in Berlin in the Teldex control room to record the first Berlin Strings expansions.
Bring a big HD with you :D


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

@ Hendrik,

Congratulations on your new Strings Library. 

I always wished that you have a comprehensive Strings Library (which was a missing item in your product list), well... I feel I got very lucky.. now that you have announced your new strings project, looks like my wish will soon become a reality.  

I'm very delighted, that you have taken this big step forward, and I'm very eager to know more about your upcoming strings library, and hear it in action. 

I have no doubts that your Strings will be First-Class, and take sampled strings to the next level of realism, expression, have a beautiful timbre quality, and offer great performance capabilities via the adaptive legato concept, and maybe you have some other techniques that you have implemented, so that keyboard performance of strings can sound more expressive, dynamic, and as realistic as possible, with more ease, and with less of resorting to convoluted methods, and tweaking tons of controllers. 

Oh.. and your Berlin WWinds Exp-B is a superb library. 

Thanks & All The Best,
Muziksculp


----------



## ed buller

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> @Saxer: Haha, we´re just sitting here at the moment in Berlin in the Teldex control room to record the first Berlin Strings expansions.
> Bring a big HD with you :D



hmm Berlin in November....bring a thick coat too !

e


----------



## korgscrew

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



ed buller @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Nov 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Saxer: Haha, we´re just sitting here at the moment in Berlin in the Teldex control room to record the first Berlin Strings expansions.
> Bring a big HD with you :D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm Berlin in November....bring a thick coat too !
> 
> e
Click to expand...


I was thinking of popping in just get it before release! (o)


----------



## aaronnt1

I'm glad that the section sizes are what they are. As said, there are enough players there to not sound like a chamber section but also there will be more definition and so will add another sound to the composer's bow who are already spoilt for choice when it comes to big lush full size strings sections. It was a good call and I think the section sizes in itself is already a selling point in that regard. In fact they could also probably stand in for divisi passages for those whose full size string samples don't have divisi sections. 

I also would love to know more about the expansions too. Looking forward to more info!


----------



## Walid F.

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



ed buller @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> hmmm...sounds lovely . Interesting sizes to. Half the size of cinestrings in terms of players . I wonder if they have done layered patches for a bigger sound ?
> 
> e



As HZ once mentioned:


> ...the biggest strings sound I ever got at Air was 8 violins in the gallery, after doing 32 violins all day.



Maybe we shouldn't make hasty assessments on this matter! :D I think you can achieve a huge sound with this too, with some clever reverberation and mic mixes.



> What is the "AB" mic position?



AB is a stereo mic pair that uses time differences for spatial imaging. Like, why can you hear things in "3D"? For example a bird, in front of you to the left, you can instantly spot where it is if you close your eyes. This is because the time it takes the sound to hit the right ear is slightly longer than the time it takes the sound to hit the left ear, and these incredibly tiny differences is what the brain utilizes for spatial imaging - it is crucial for our survival! 

AB is awesome! :D Thanks OT for adding those!


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Unique 2nd players, smaller sections, lovely vibrato, creamy legato, under the hood depth, etc. All wonderful news Hendrik - you guys are really hitting your stride! Congrats. If now at NI - isn't it possible that we could get DL links by mid-Dec?


----------



## williemyers

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> ...The strings in the video are from an early beta version of Berlin Strings.


 actually, Hendrik/Sacha, we'd love to know the source libraries of *all* the sections in that beautiful mockup? And, Sacha, did you write this one?


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

@ williemyers: All the strings I used are from Berlin Strings, WWs from Berlin Woodwinds and most of the brass is a custom library I did with Sascha at Teldex last year and the percussion are from different libraries. Except the Percussion nearly everything comes from Teldex :D


----------



## Maestro77

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Hendrik, several of us have expressed how critical it is for us right now to know the price of Berlin Strings. A certain other developer has an intro special going on for a new competing product that we've been looking forward to for a long time. Knowing the price of BST would be extremely helpful in making our decision! Otherwise, without knowing, I think many of us will likely go ahead and opt for the other one before the intro offer expires. Can you give us some idea of how much yours will be? Thanks!


----------



## Echoes in the Attic

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

I'd like to know if Berlin Strings will have patches that include multiple articulations, specifically shorts and longs/legatos. I like to have as many articulations in a patch as possible, hence why I like the Cinesamples approach quite a bit. But I am interested in the adaptive legato as well. I assume there is also some way to manually adjust legato speed?


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



Walid F. @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> AB is a stereo mic pair that uses time differences for spatial imaging!


Cool, never heard of that but am interested to hear what that sounds like. Thanks for the info. I guess OT selectively chooses who & what they want to answer to.


----------



## Mike Connelly

Portamento?

I know it was discussed a lot on one of the other threads recently and some guys never use it, but for me it's a must-have in a string library. Heck, I wish more libraries went as far as LASS and had port plus gliss, complete with speed control.


----------



## korgscrew

I got my letter in the post today. Really nice touch 

You know how to interact with your customers. 

Far more classier than an email. 

Thank you.


----------



## williemyers

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> @ williemyers: All the strings I used are from Berlin Strings, WWs from Berlin Woodwinds and most of the brass is a custom library I did with Sascha at Teldex last year and the percussion are from different libraries. Except the Percussion nearly everything comes from Teldex :D


brilliant, Hendrik - thanks very much!


----------



## williemyers

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



Maestro77 @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> A certain other developer has an intro special going on for a new competing product that we've been looking forward to for a long time.


 make that "certain other *developers*"!! (CineSamples AND Spitfire)...jeez, we've got a lot of stuff coming our way at one time, don't we?!


----------



## Conor

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> I am excited by this but in the video, at the end of chapter 2, around 5:30, you mention that having a first chair concert master on a separate mike that you can dial in is innovative. I don't own LASS, so I don't know the answer to this question. They have a product called First Chair and I thought that is what it was. What is the innovation in your new product?



Yes, LASS already does this. For example, a full LASS Violins I section looks like this:
1 - Violin I First Chair
4 - Violin I "A"
4 - Violin I "B"
8 - Violin I "C"

So you can play all patches together for a nice big section, dialing in more or less first chair to taste, then swap to A+B on the top part of a divisi and C on the bottom part, even place them differently... extremely flexible!

The Orchestral Tools team is surely aware of the competition, so I'm also not sure how their first chair approach is "innovative"... the sensitivity to transitions based on playing speed + velocity seems pretty interesting though!

Berlin Strings seems like an amazing library but what I really need right now are WWs and brass, so: announce Berlin Brass and a nice holiday sale on BWW, please! :D


----------



## playz123

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Have read all the comments so far and, like most others, am very impressed by what I hear. I wasn't fully aware that Sascha was now part of your team, but that's good news as well.

The strings sound lovely...I'm not going to comment further on that until the library is resting in my own hard drive  and I'm certainly looking forward to the release. My goal is, at some point, to have a complete OT template as well as templates from two other companies. So, if you haven't already done so, please make sure you've sorted out that credit card purchasing problem by the time this library is ready to be released....please. 
Finally very classy info letter you sent by mail. Just that little extra touch... very impressive. Now, back to work!


----------



## KingIdiot

Mike Connelly @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> Portamento?
> 
> I know it was discussed a lot on one of the other threads recently and some guys never use it, but for me it's a must-have in a string library. Heck, I wish more libraries went as far as LASS and had port plus gliss, complete with speed control.



In the video it specifically shows that the legato will anticipate different speeds and that on the slower expressive speed will trigger portamento at high velocities. (written in red on the diagram explaining this, and you can hear the different legato speeds in that short excerpt)


----------



## quantum7

korgscrew @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> I got my letter in the post today. Really nice touch
> 
> You know how to interact with your customers.
> 
> Far more classier than an email.
> 
> Thank you.



letter in the post?


----------



## muziksculp

quantum7 @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> korgscrew @ Tue Nov 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got my letter in the post today. Really nice touch
> 
> You know how to interact with your customers.
> 
> Far more classier than an email.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> letter in the post?
Click to expand...


Yes, they mailed a classy card (not an email) :D 

Here are two pics showing the Mailed Orchestral Tools Announcement Card : 










Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Casiquire

I also wondered what they meant about the first chairs having "never been done before", or something along those lines. LASS did it years ago, CineStrings is doing it now, etc. Maybe they're doing it in a different way, which would be interesting to know about.

Also for the people concerned that the sections sound "too small", just listen to the demo. It sounds lush and doesn't sound like a chamber group at all. More players doesn't always mean bigger sound. It has a lot to do with playing style and how it's recorded.


----------



## quantum7

muziksculp @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> quantum7 @ Tue Nov 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> korgscrew @ Tue Nov 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got my letter in the post today. Really nice touch
> 
> You know how to interact with your customers.
> 
> Far more classier than an email.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> letter in the post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they mailed a classy card (not an email) :D
> 
> Here are two pics showing the Mailed Orchestral Tools Announcement Card :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp
Click to expand...


I bought BWW and never received anything in the mail. No love for their Idaho customers. :( We grow a great potato here....just saying.


----------



## DocMidi657

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

I did not get anything either ....maybe our wives hid them


----------



## quantum7

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



DocMidi657 @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> I did not get anything either ....maybe our wives hid them



hmmm....considering I've spent over 12k in five years on sample libraries, and I keep telling my wife that we cannot afford that new Mustang convertible she's been wanting.....you may have a point. :oops:


----------



## DDK

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Hi Hendrik
Can you please tell us how much this will cost and give us
a rundown of the articulations.
I am tying to decide (like many others) wether to wait for your strings or 
get in on the pre sale of Cinestrings.
I think it would help your sales if you would let us know so
we can all make a decision
thanks so much
Dave


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Classy move, the card in the mail.



DocMidi657 @ Wed Nov 27 said:


> I did not get anything either ....maybe our wives hid them



This is where OT has failed. The outside should have read *Diamond Necklace Coupon*.


----------



## playz123

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



DocMidi657 @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> I did not get anything either ....maybe our wives hid them



Maybe just be patient everyone. My letter just arrived today, while others had one a few days ago, so it may take time to reach every corner of the world. This is the postal system involved here, not Santa Claus or a 100MB/sec ISP service.


----------



## quantum7

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



playz123 @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> DocMidi657 @ Tue Nov 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not get anything either ....maybe our wives hid them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe just be patient everyone. My letter just arrived today, while others had one a few days ago, so it may take time to reach every corner of the world. This is the postal system involved here, not Santa Claus or a 100MB/sec ISP service.
Click to expand...


Oh yeah, as a former postal employee for 7 years I almost forgot how slow the mail can be. :oops:


----------



## renegade

Hi OT

Interesting announcement  I'm very pleased you are going to put some thought into the "timing" aspect. It seems to me that a lot of classical/moviescore-people is mainly concerned of the sound/timbre/tone etc. The timing in the transitions/legato and the attack is just as important to me. If the timing is sloppy it sounds like the orchestra is struggling, and that bothers me as much as false notes.

Looking forward to hearing more!

Kind regards


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Hi guys,

thanks again for your great interest and feedback 

To answer a few questions and give you some more info about Berlin Strings:

1. Price and detailed articulation list will be specified and published when the first beta tests are done, so don't expect this until next week. Berlin Strings will include some very innovative patches and as always if you break new grounds, you would like to be sure that everything works correctly.

2. The AB mic position is a kind of mid position between the close mics and the tree.
The concert master is not recorded separately in the Berlin Strings main library. Its an additional microphone within the 1st Vi section, which you can dial in to taste. 

3. As it was already mentioned: The Adaptive legato patch includes portamento. We also have something very special concerning glissandos, but I cannot say more about this at the moment…

4. Berlin Strings can sound incredibly big - as it can be also very intimate. Don't get fooled by the smaller amount of players. We have to deal with samples here, which is a whole different topic in comparison to a live ensemble.
Berlin Strings is designed as a full orchestral strings library.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## korgscrew

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> thanks again for your great interest and feedback
> 
> To answer a few questions and give you some more info about Berlin Strings:
> 
> 1. Price and detailed articulation list will be specified and published when the first beta tests are done, so don't expect this until next week. Berlin Strings will include some very innovative patches and as always if you break new grounds, you would like to be sure that everything works correctly.
> 
> 2. The AB mic position is a kind of mid position between the close mics and the tree.
> The concert master is not recorded separately in the Berlin Strings main library. Its an additional microphone within the 1st Vi section, which you can dial in to taste.
> 
> 3. As it was already mentioned: The Adaptive legato patch includes portamento. We also have something very special concerning glissandos, but I cannot say more about this at the moment…
> 
> 4. Berlin Strings can sound incredibly big - as it can be also very intimate. Don't get fooled by the smaller amount of players. We have to deal with samples here, which is a whole different topic in comparison to a live ensemble.
> Berlin Strings is designed as a full orchestral strings library.
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Sounds Great Hendrik! 8)


----------



## Symfoniq

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

I just watched the video again, this time concentrating on the background music.

That's from a Berlin Strings _beta_? Are you _serious_? Those strings positively sing. When I first saw the section sizes, I thought they seemed small, not realizing that I was hearing them when I first watched the video. But the sound is beautifully detailed _and_ full.

Wow. I'm going to be watching this one closely.


----------



## playz123

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

In the Berlin brochure that arrived by mail it shows "Timpani" as being an Expansion for Berlin Percussion. However, I already have "The Timpani" from OT. Is the 'new' one different from what I already have??


----------



## Arbee

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

This may well be the first new string library to really push my "buy button" in a long while. I haven't bought LASS, HS, CS, the new CineStrings or Spitfire anything.....fingers crossed this time.... o/~ 

.


----------



## Harcourt

Mike Connelly @ Wed Nov 27 said:


> Portamento?
> 
> I know it was discussed a lot on one of the other threads recently and some guys never use it, but for me it's a must-have in a string library. Heck, I wish more libraries went as far as LASS and had port plus gliss, complete with speed control.


+1...portamento and glissando both very important IMO, and I'm glad that Berlin Strings have included it. I also hope sordino strings are sampled separately. I'm not fond of the pseudo sordino in HS - it just doesn't sound convincing.


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

those that hope to get recorded sordinos and may have no clue how the fx expansions could be designed should have a look to the tech blog on the orchestral tools site: http://orchestraltools.com/techblog/index.html


----------



## Frankly-h

The sound is great. One thing I noticed that none of the string libraries, available today, can do is the repeated two note 'legato' figure, rocking back and forth. I could here this in the background music. I very much look forward to this.


----------



## benmrx

Frankly-h @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> The sound is great. One thing I noticed that none of the string libraries, available today, can do is the repeated two note 'legato' figure, rocking back and forth. I could here this in the background music. I very much look forward to this.



+1 

I have some of the Adagio strings, and they DO have round robin legatos for the 'rocking back and forth' type lines, but man......, I'm extremely excited to see how OT handles this task. Their legatos and measured trills in BWW 1.6 are amazingly easy to use, sound great and the articulations performer just brings the whole workflow together.


----------



## zacnelson

Could anybody point out a particular time location on the Berlin Strings video to look out for as a good example of the rocking back and forth string sound? Thanks!


----------



## aaronnt1

I hope Berlin Strings has trills going up to at least a fourth, most string libraries give the bare minimum of up to a 2nd. And I really hope the ranges are not overly restrictive, I hope all playable notes or at least 95% of the playable ranges have been sampled. Really looking forward to this one, I'm sure it will be special and stand out from the crowd.


----------



## Frankly-h

zacnelson @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Could anybody point out a particular time location on the Berlin Strings video to look out for as a good example of the rocking back and forth string sound? Thanks!



It starts around 0:50 in the accompaniment.


----------



## FredrikJonasson

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

How appropriate, I have begun to revisit Audiobro's videos. Hrrm. Sounds very interesting indeed Hendrik & Co!


----------



## Dan Mott

If this library is a 100 GB download. I could take a trip to Berlin and back from Australia and would still be downloading when I get back. lol.


----------



## zacnelson

Thank you Frankly-H for pointing out the location for me. I must say, the more I listen to that background music on the video, the more amazed I am that Berlin Strings haven't been making more of a deal about this demo! They should release it without the talking. It is a sublime sound.


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Hi,

According to *Orchestral Tools*, their Berlin Series Strings Library Line-up (Recorded at Teledex), looks Like this :

** Berlin Strings
* EXP A : Special Bows I
* EXP B : Special Bows II
* EXP C : Soloists
* EXP D : First Chairs
* EXP E : String Effects*

Which imho. is an amazing line-up, that will offer quite a complete, and comprehensive Strings Library when all the Expansions are released. 

So, Berlin Strings will be out next month ? I'm guessing the expansions will be released during 2014 Periodically, as they are completed. 

This is surely on my to buy list ! and most likely most of their other libraries.

Hmmm... I need to apply for a Sample Library Loan, given the new, and exciting Sample Libraries coming out during 2014  

I wonder if they have plans to offer them on (HDs/Flash Drives, or other compact media) given the expected large size of these libraries. 

Surely 2014 is going to be a very exciting year, as far as Sample Libraries go. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Diffusor

man, these sound pretty amazing, Definitely will be looking more into this when they are released.


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Wha ha! I like the slightly Fringe opening to the video. I want to see Walter in the 'cello section. Looks great.

Mahlon


----------



## FriFlo

Edit: See next post! It was my mistake. I will leave text, but I was wrong about it, as I just found out!

I am kind of expecting to draw some users rage upon me, again ... But, here we go:
Regarding pricing I would encourage OT to consider an early adopters offer, that will hold its promise or not make an early bird offer at all. For OSR this was a really good deal, but with BWW not so much: about a year after the initial release the normal price dropped to the same amount of the very first early bird offer, which should have been the best deal to get it. This happened exactly with the last update, so users who bought the library in its early state that needed some kind of tweaking didn't really make a great deal as advertised.
I want to emphasize that I have nothing but respect for Hendrik and the OT team. they have been very generous with updates (free newly recorded samples in OSR in several updates, etc.). I just want to stress how important it is (for me - others might feel different) to feel treated with respect for the early support of their products! I really have no problem with not making an early bird offer at all! But when there is one, I kind of feel cheated when it turns out it really wasn't such a good offering and I could have just as well waited how everything turns out in the end (if I don't really need it NOW!).
Please, guys! take it easy on me, now! I can't take any more punishment on this forum!


----------



## FriFlo

Oops! Sorry! I will take back what I wrote before. my mistake!
The early bird price was actually the same amount in dollars, which is now in Euro! So it really was the best offering up to today! apologies!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

haha, no punishment here 

Thanks for bringing this on the table.
There was never a pricedrop or special after the introduction period of Berlin Woodwinds.
We just changed our shop from Dollars to Euro. That's it.
It is nearly the same price (of course depending on the currency).

As some of you noticed, we don't do that much specials here at OT.

Best, Hendrik


----------



## FriFlo

Thanks Hendrik. But you realize, I corrected my mistake afterwards. I just didn't want to delete it, as I hate it when you come to the forum and don't understand the discussion.
All is good! Looking forwards to what BS(T) will bring to the table!


----------



## damstraversaz

Are you thinking to sell soloist and first chairs alone ?
I'm very impressed by the sound, but really don't need an orchestra library. But I'm using every day solo strings and really like your concept.
best,
Damien


----------



## OT_Tobias

Hi Damien,

the solo strings and first chairs will be expansions to the man library, so yes, they will be available separately!


----------



## EwigWanderer

damstraversaz @ 2nd December 2013 said:


> Are you thinking to sell soloist and first chairs alone ?
> I'm very impressed by the sound, but really don't need an orchestra library. But I'm using every day solo strings and really like your concept.
> best,
> Damien



Hi,
some info:

http://www.orchestraltools.com/observatory/index.html


----------



## damstraversaz

oh, sorry! thanks a lot !


----------



## OT_Tobias

No need for sorry  There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers!


----------



## FlmComp12

Super excited for the release of this library.


----------



## The Darris

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

So just to clarify, we can buy EXP A-D without having the core libraries' samples?


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



The Darris @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> So just to clarify, we can buy EXP A-D without having the core libraries' samples?



Wondering this as well


----------



## OT_Tobias

Yes, the expansions will work standalone and you will not need the main library in order to use them.
Just as it is with the Berlin Woodwinds Expansions.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Yes. All the expansions are completely individual libraries. 
And you don't have to own the main library to run them.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Oh Tobi, you're just too fast :-D


----------



## OT_Tobias

Haha, I drank a full barrel of gasoline for breakfast


----------



## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Fingers Crossed that we'll some prices and an articulation list for the main library in the next couple days.


----------



## aaronnt1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



benmrx @ Tue 03 Dec said:


> Fingers Crossed that we'll some prices and an articulation list for the main library in the next couple days.



Yes, I'm itching for this information too.


----------



## SymphonicSamples

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

I'd say there a lot of people thinking the same thing . So there's no time like the present OT


----------



## SymphonicSamples

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

I finally got my mail out card today , I was wondering if the other side of the earth would be included , I feel like part of the family now


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*

Hey Guys,

our new screencast "CHAPTER I: Short Notes" is online.
Hope you like it!

I´m happy to say that we got the files back from Native.
So the encoding is already done.

More info will come soon...



Best,
Hendrik


----------



## BenG

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Sounds great! 

24 RRs!?!?.....Loving the spiccatissimos, great raw sound overall too! I also noticed that nothing sounds "chamber-like". To be honest it sounds more like a real orchestra (clear and defined) as oppose to a mass of sound that can be messy.Really looking forward to some of the legato videos as well


----------



## Maestro77

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Two words: RELEASE IT.


----------



## tmm

Jaw, meet floor.

Very, very nice tone. I'm really impressed!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Thanks so much guys!


----------



## MacQ

Sounds great Hendrik ... 24xRR!!?? :-O


----------



## EwigWanderer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Great o-[][]-o 

Can't wait to get it!


----------



## Frankly-h

OT is becoming my favorite developer. 
First you covered everything missing from our orchestral palettes and now you are taking over the rest too!


----------



## The Darris

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

I'm happy with the the quality and sound but 24RR seems excessive, mostly for smaller systems that don't have massive amounts of RAM. I mean, the footprint for that first patch was .75gb with others sitting at .86+. I can't begin to think how large the Legato patches are going to be. Anyway, I would request having a tweakable version of these patches to reduce the ram usage, such as being able to configure how many RRs that are active. 

My last concern is whether or not this preview was completely out-of-the box or with added reverb. Seems way more wet than BWW.

All in all though, sounds pretty damn awesome. Great job OT!!


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Sounds really promising - gotta love those celli portatos 8)


----------



## IvanP

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



SymphonicSamples @ Wed Dec 04 said:


> I finally got my mail out card today , I was wondering if the other side of the earth would be included , I feel like part of the family now



So did I :lol: 

What a pleasant surprise


----------



## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

YES

Funny. My four year watched that demo with me, and he said it sounded like Frankenweenie when the Cello Portato Longs came on. Specifically, the scene when Sparky (his dog) dies. Then he said it sounded like Spiderman 1 during the Double Bows patch. Both scores by Danny Elfman. My personal favorite modern composer. This is the library I've been waiting for.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*



Simon Ravn @ Wed Dec 04 said:


> Sounds really promising - gotta love those celli portatos 8)




Agreed Simon. I think the portatos work BECAUSE the RIGHT number of players were used. Wonderful. Hendrik - new date for release? (since NI is done)


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

If you manage to combine the different articulations and patches in a way which is playable and intuitive, then this will do very well. Being thorough with sampling is brilliant, but I'm finding myself using the libraries which allow me to work quickly over the ones which may have more detail but take five times as long to sequence, layer etc.

This would be perfect for the stuff I mentioned in a separate thread about MIDI analysis - if you could look at the midi file about to be played, you would know exactly when to use those double staccatos in advance. Spiccato, staccatissimo etc determined in advance via note length. Same with fast legato.

If it can do fast legato well, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PztMcNH8t2g&list=PLCF452EA1AE2F6205&index=5 (this) without sounding lifeless, then I'll give you the password to my Paypal account!


----------



## aaronnt1

Those spicattisimos are nicely defined. 24xRR could be seen as a little excessive but hey, I'm all for as much realism as I can get - perhaps there will be lighter patches with less RAM footprint. The extended ranges for Basses and Celli is extremely welcome.


----------



## Jordan Gagne

Wow, that sounded incredible. My only concern is the patch-per-articulation approach, which might be okay for other orchestral sections but will create a lot of clutter in a hurry when trying to manage all the crucial string articulations. Hopefully there's an intuitive option like the BWW articulation performer.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*



wilx @ Wed Dec 04 said:


> If you manage to combine the different articulations and patches in a way which is playable and intuitive, then this will do very well. Being thorough with sampling is brilliant, but I'm finding myself using the libraries which allow me to work quickly over the ones which may have more detail but take five times as long to sequence, layer etc.
> 
> This would be perfect for the stuff I mentioned in a separate thread about MIDI analysis - if you could look at the midi file about to be played, you would know exactly when to use those double staccatos in advance. Spiccato, staccatissimo etc determined in advance via note length. Same with fast legato.
> 
> If it can do fast legato well, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PztMcNH8t2g&list=PLCF452EA1AE2F6205&index=5 (this) without sounding lifeless, then I'll give you the password to my Paypal account!




Most days are EXACTLY like this. I need to get ideas down fast. This is a BIG deal for me. Hoping and a wishin' - the library sounds great of course.


----------



## quantum7

Why 24 RR's on some and 4 RR's on others? Maybe 8 to 10 RR's on everything would have been better?


----------



## Guy Rowland

aaronnt1 @ Wed Dec 04 said:


> Those spicattisimos are nicely defined. 24xRR could be seen as a little excessive but hey, I'm all for as much realism as I can get - perhaps there will be lighter patches with less RAM footprint.



I did notice the voice count regularly hitting 250 on a few chords - double that of course when the two patches were layered. This is definitely feeling like a high end and high resources library.


----------



## Kralc

Sounds fantastic! Seems like we're in the string lib blow out right now with CineStrings, Mural, Adagietto, and this bad boy!



quantum7 @ Thu Dec 05 said:


> Why 24 RR's on some and 4 RR's on others? Maybe 8 to 10 RR's on everything would have better better?


The lower RR's seem to be on the pizzes, which wouldn't really be playing in such fast succession as the bowed shorts?


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Congrats OT, totally top quality imo. Of all the developers, I was expecting that OT would be the most complete articulation Wise, as it seems to be the case. Kind of like a 2nd generation VSL. And the mic mix there on the video sounds wonderful.

There seem to be 4 shorts, excellent. And the "true double" totally sold me on it. Yet more strings to by.....


----------



## Dan Mott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Nice tight shorts.

Looks like users will need an SSD and lot's of RAM for the big patches.

I like the 24RRs thing. The more the better and the more dynamics the better.

I am sure that there would be smaller patches for people who do not have the resources.


----------



## Walid F.

Those Celli portatos... Absolutely beautiful and vibrant sound!

I demand demos on the legato/sustains!!


----------



## tmm

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*



Rob Elliott @ Wed Dec 04 said:


> wilx @ Wed Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you manage to combine the different articulations and patches in a way which is playable and intuitive, then this will do very well. Being thorough with sampling is brilliant, but I'm finding myself using the libraries which allow me to work quickly over the ones which may have more detail but take five times as long to sequence, layer etc.
> 
> This would be perfect for the stuff I mentioned in a separate thread about MIDI analysis - if you could look at the midi file about to be played, you would know exactly when to use those double staccatos in advance. Spiccato, staccatissimo etc determined in advance via note length. Same with fast legato.
> 
> If it can do fast legato well, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PztMcNH8t2g&list=PLCF452EA1AE2F6205&index=5 (this) without sounding lifeless, then I'll give you the password to my Paypal account!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most days are EXACTLY like this. I need to get ideas down fast. This is a BIG deal for me. Hoping and a wishin' - the library sounds great of course.
Click to expand...


+1 I very regularly choose the instruments that are easiest to sequence over the instruments that have the most detailed sampling (of course, when they're not the same instrument, like Ilya's Duduk).


----------



## Symfoniq

Sounds absolutely fantastic. Looking forward to the next screencast.


----------



## aaronnt1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*



Dan Mott @ Wed 04 Dec said:


> Nice tight shorts.



:mrgreen:


----------



## Maestro77

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Nothing like some nice tight shorts to wrap around your longs.


----------



## Per Lichtman

I'm liking having both spiccato and spicattisimo and the number of round robins for each is looking good, too.

Very curious to see the articulation list when it arrives - for instance exactly what the spiccato vs martele and staccato options will be.

Definitely some encouraging aspects so far!


----------



## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Watching the video again, I'm seeing a violin graphic with a slider in the lower left hand corner of the GUI in certain patches. I'm wondering if that slider is the 'first chair' mic.


----------



## Daniel James

Awesome work guys! its sounding great. Any chanse when you release more of these videos you could edit them into the initial post too, just so I dont have to search for it through the comments when this thread hits 20 pages or so 

Keep up the great work.

-DJ


----------



## Udo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Instrument List added]*



SymphonicSamples @ Wed Dec 04 said:


> I finally got my mail out card today , I was wondering if the other side of the earth would be included , I feel like part of the family now


I got mine too yesterday. Looks like they were shipped in bulk to Australia and then posted to individual addresses. Mine was postmarked Dec 3.

The strings sound promising!


----------



## Polarity

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

I believe this library will knock down most of single computer based DAW systems if you want to have a full orchestral template loaded and ready to play...


----------



## Guy Rowland

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*



Polarity @ Thu Dec 05 said:


> I believe this library will knock down most of single computer based DAW systems if you want to have a full orchestral template loaded and ready to play...



Yeah, I can see this being so resource intensive on a full section that it might almost need a machine just for this lib >8o I do think a best mic stereo mix set of samples would help.


----------



## aaronnt1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*



Guy Rowland @ Thu 05 Dec said:


> Polarity @ Thu Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe this library will knock down most of single computer based DAW systems if you want to have a full orchestral template loaded and ready to play...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I can see this being so resource intensive on a full section that it might almost need a machine just for this lib >8o I do think a best mic stereo mix set of samples would help.
Click to expand...


I agree, I think this is essential.


----------



## zacnelson

Those portatos are divine


----------



## skyforestblaze

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*



jamwerks @ Wed Dec 04 said:


> Congrats OT, totally top quality imo. Of all the developers, I was expecting that OT would be the most complete articulation Wise, as it seems to be the case. Kind of like a 2nd generation VSL.



Very well done indeed. Seems like the core package already is very huge, so add to that the planned expansions and you will probably need one dedicated SSD for the whole Berlin Strings library. I think the sound in the demo is amazing, and if Berlin Brass will be just as detailed and amazing sounding, i think OT is going to drain a lof of bank accounts :( :D


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Thanks so much for the great response on the video.

Berlin Strings will be pretty straight forward (technology-, articulation- and resource wise). The 24RR spiccato patches will have a menu to limit the value of the RRs. You can decide how many RRs you want to use - depending on Music, resources, etc.
The unused RRs will be purched from the RAM then. 

We are also working on eco options for the legatos.

Like in BWW, Berlin Strings will have the same dynamics menu, where you can enable or disable specific dynamic layer. Also a Feature (beside the mic positions) to customize Berlin Strings to your own computer resources.

Anyway Berlin Strings IS very extensive sampled and appears a bit resource hungry to date but as the computer resources will be better every year, the investment into the Berlin Orchestra is also future oriented. Especialy with the concept of our expansions where we try to realize extended ideas, articulations and techniques. It´s a growing concept.

Best, Hendrik


----------



## Jem7

It sounded great! 
But it seems like even with 24RR, some shorts has a bit machine gun effect to me. Especially cellos in the beginning. Anybody else noticed this or is this just me?


----------



## syashdown

I can see the sale of Mac Mini's with SSDs going up after this release, great sound OT!


----------



## dedersen

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Wow, those shorts are really impressive, arent' they? And the background demo to the first video is really impressive. Wish I could hear it without the chatter!

Very curious to see how this will be priced. It seems obvious that it will be more expensive than CineStrings, considering the deeper sampling, but I'm anxious to see just how much more expensive. 

Great news about the posibility of purging RRs depending on resources. Sounds like you've really given this product a lot of thought, Hendrik.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

€599 - €499 intro price 8)


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*



> Simon Ravn
> Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]
> Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:22 am
> €599 - €499 intro price



Where do you take that information from? Wild guess?


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Yes, it's just a wild guess based on BWW pricing and the competition on the market.


----------



## FriFlo

For 499€ I wouldn't think twice to buy it, based on what I know about this library so far! Could be a little more, though, as this looks quite a bit more detailed and bigger than CS ... But maybe 500 bugs intro price excluding Vat is not completely unrealistic ...


----------



## jamwerks

It's going to be interesting to hear these with their "con sordino" technology.


----------



## FriFlo

In case the con sordino emulation will not be as good as the real thing, I guess Hendrik will certainly listen to the users, if they demand for a recorded expansions. At leas, I have very good experience in OT listening to what users want!
But, in case they really nailed this ... Even better! We will be able to save quite some money!


----------



## Zelorkq

Jem7 @ Thu Dec 05 said:


> It sounded great!
> But it seems like even with 24RR, some shorts has a bit machine gun effect to me. Especially cellos in the beginning. Anybody else noticed this or is this just me?



I have to agree with you here, sadly. Maybe the RRs don't differ as much as in other products.
I love my BWW and hope berlin strings will be just as good. The shorts video is really great and I have high hopes for this product, but I did expect slightly better shorts (the portatos are amazing tho).
Being able to adjust RRs and resource specific elements is very important, good thinking.
Can't wait for the legatos!!


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*



aaronnt1 @ Thu Dec 05 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Thu 05 Dec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polarity @ Thu Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe this library will knock down most of single computer based DAW systems if you want to have a full orchestral template loaded and ready to play...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I can see this being so resource intensive on a full section that it might almost need a machine just for this lib >8o I do think a best mic stereo mix set of samples would help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree, I think this is essential.
Click to expand...



For sure - BEST MIC option for template is a must have. Release date?


----------



## jamwerks

Jem7 @ Thu Dec 05 said:


> It sounded great!
> But it seems like even with 24RR, some shorts has a bit machine gun effect to me. Especially cellos in the beginning. Anybody else noticed this or is this just me?


I just listened again to the video, and don't hear any machine-gun effect at all. Can you please give us the exact spot where you had that impression (in seconds).

In watching again I notice the Martelé articulation also. Sounds great, and haven't heard that elsewhere.

As for a best mic stereo mix, not possible imo. Everyone has different tastes when it comes to mic mixes. One possibility would be to just use the tree mic's while writing, then add later.

I agreee with what said earlier about cpu. I'd rather have developers push the limits sound-wise, and not worry about ram & power. Up to us to buy the machines that these libraries merit. PC slaves are so inexpensive, no reason to not have a couple!


----------



## Simon Ravn

Zelorkq @ Thu Dec 05 said:


> Jem7 @ Thu Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sounded great!
> But it seems like even with 24RR, some shorts has a bit machine gun effect to me. Especially cellos in the beginning. Anybody else noticed this or is this just me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to agree with you here, sadly. Maybe the RRs don't differ as much as in other products.
> I love my BWW and hope berlin strings will be just as good. The shorts video is really great and I have high hopes for this product, but I did expect slightly better shorts (the portatos are amazing tho).
> Being able to adjust RRs and resource specific elements is very important, good thinking.
> Can't wait for the legatos!!
Click to expand...


I doubt they really recorded 24+ (because you have to toss some of your recordings out) RR's for each short note. I think they might have edited together different takes' beginning/ends, possibly deriving from the nearest two notes. I really see no reason to record that many and it would be horribly tedious (even more..) for the musicians to record these. But that is just my guess, that we're really not talking 24 uniquely recorded short notes.


----------



## Jem7

jamwerks @ 5/12/2013 said:


> Jem7 @ Thu Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sounded great!
> But it seems like even with 24RR, some shorts has a bit machine gun effect to me. Especially cellos in the beginning. Anybody else noticed this or is this just me?
> 
> 
> 
> I just listened again to the video, and don't hear any machine-gun effect at all. Can you please give us the exact spot where you had that impression (in seconds).
Click to expand...


Sure.
It's around the crescendo at 0:05 - 0:07 and 0:09 - 0:11 and 0:14 - 0:20.
It's not static machine gun effect I'm talking about. More like I hear down bow everytime not like down up down up...etc as supposed to.


----------



## Walid F.

Is it only me, or does it feel a bit "jagged" with the transitions of the celli portatos at 2:26 and a bit forward? They seem to lose the release sound almost, or that the room isn't reverberating the previous notes right after the transition.

Hmm, not sure about this, but very very lovely tone to this.


----------



## Per Lichtman

@Jem7 It's because of the chords.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

The spiccatos have down- and up bows. 
In the patch they are programmed as down-up-down-up etc.


----------



## peksi

excellent stuff. hope the price is not jaw dropping aswell.


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Hi,

I would love to hear the shorts in a musical context. More demos would be very helpful to better evaluate the shorts, and the other articulations of OT's Berlin Strings. I'm sure more demos will be posted soon. 

I'm very excited, and eagerly waiting for the release of *Berlin Strings* this month.  

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## jc

Vid sounds awesome! Also...thanks for getting straight to the action and not 5 minutes of talking about the Ui or what you had for breakfast...

One thing i'd love to see in a string library is the ability to do fast slurs whilst playing staccato. (like the opening string motif in duel of the fates).


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira

jc @ Thu Dec 05 said:


> One thing i'd love to see in a string library is the ability to do fast slurs whilst playing staccato. (like the opening string motif in duel of the fates).



You can fake this with staccato+legato layered.

Here is an example alterning 2 bars staccato, 2 bars staccato+leg, 2 bars staccato, 2 bars staccato+leg:

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F123442179&secret_url=false[/flash]


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*

Thanks for all the feedback!

I made an audio demo for you to present the different mic positions we have included into Berlin Strings.
It´s a simple Phrase played with the 1st Violins regular Staccato patch.

1. All mics on
2. Concert Master mic
3. AB mics
4. TREE mics
5. CLOSE mics
6. SURROUND mics

[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/BST_Mic_Demo.mp3[/mp3]

All the best,

Hendrik


----------



## Simon Ravn

Awesome Hendrik! When can be get this?!


----------



## jamwerks

Nice! I really like that the tree sound a bit farther back than what Cinesamples does. And the AB and surround capture a lovely room sound.

This should turn out to be an awesome Library.


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> Thanks for all the feedback!
> 
> I made an audio demo for you to present the different mic positions we have included into Berlin Strings.
> It´s a simple Phrase played with the 1st Violins regular Staccato patch.
> 
> 1. All mics on
> 2. Concert Master mic
> 3. AB mics
> 4. TREE mics
> 5. CLOSE mics
> 6. SURROUND mics
> 
> [mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/BST_Mic_Demo.mp3[/mp3]
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Hendrik



BEAUTIFUL! Now do a FULL MIX mic option for resource-saving sake, please


----------



## mchastney

Wow, I absolutely love the sound, I think this is the string library I've been waiting for. Looking forward to price info and more demos!


----------



## Simon Ravn

I think two mic sets should do it for most situations. I'll probably use tree + AB or tree + close. But yes, an "Orchestral Tools mix" would be a welcome edition although I realize that is a lot of work.


----------



## SoundTravels

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

Really nice to hear the different mics.

Is the "Concert Master" mic mono, and then you pan it to where you want him/her to sit? Sounded like it was mono, straight down the middle in that example, but wonder if you left it centered in the "all mics" or panned it.

Thanks!

ST


----------



## jamwerks

Simon Ravn @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> But yes, an "Orchestral Tools mix" would be a welcome edition although I realize that is a lot of work.


I'm not sure that it's feasible to do a stereo mix after the fact. You'd have to chose the mic's, then do a bounce of each and every sample. Can you imagine the work. :shock:


----------



## aaronnt1

jamwerks @ Fri 06 Dec said:


> Simon Ravn @ Fri Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But yes, an "Orchestral Tools mix" would be a welcome edition although I realize that is a lot of work.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure that it's feasible to do a stereo mix after the fact. You'd have to chose the mic's, then do a bounce of each and every sample. Can you imagine the work. :shock:
Click to expand...


Macros to do all the work - is that even a possibility? Some sort of instruction set that tells the macro runner what mic parameters to set up and then automatically batch encode to those settings? Don't know, just musing. I just assumed all these fiddly things were done by software rather than some poor human clicking and encoding, clicking and encoding...!


----------



## Sid Francis

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

This is so fantastic sounding. Must-have..., and since the "all-mics-on" is sounding so great an option to have a mixed and downsized version of this would highly be appreciated. Perhaps in an update?


----------



## germancomponist

When I compare this to EW Hollywood Strings or Cinesamples strings I am not so sure..... .


----------



## The Darris

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

If I am going to make a request, it would be to have a mixed mic option that is mixed to sound in the same closeness and space of BWW. Berlin Strings, so far, sounds so much bigger and spacious than BWW can sound without reverb treatment. I am all for the CineSeries mixing style as well as Spitfire's Air Lynhurst mixing style because all the libraries just play well together out of the box without treatment. I was looking forward to this with Berlin Strings because of the room, I love Teldex. Anyway, I am hoping to hear some more demos of Berlin Strings and BWW playing together, out of the box without any reverb treatment to hear how they sound together.


----------



## benmrx

germancomponist @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> When I compare this to EW Hollywood Strings or Cinesamples strings I am not so sure..... .



Me either....., not so sure how anyone is _NOT_ going to buy this cause it sounds freakin' amazing! 

BIG +1 for a Full-Mix option!


----------



## Damon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

Sounds lovely Hendrik, looking forward to it


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira

benmrx @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> ... Me either....., not so sure how anyone is _NOT_ going to buy this cause it sounds freakin' amazing! ...



how? If they don't make a Full Mix option I'm gonna be the first not to buy... sadly :/


----------



## The Darris

Gabriel Oliveira @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> how? If they don't make a Full Mix option I'm gonna be the first not to buy... sadly :/



It probably won't make it into the library for release, based on that demo. If they provided a reasonable entry price plus a confirmation of a mix option in an update, I would be more inclined to buy this library. However, still skeptical on how it sounds with BWW. That will be my deciding factor.


----------



## DenisT

benmrx @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> Me either....., not so sure how anyone is _NOT_ going to buy this cause it sounds freakin' amazing!



We don't know the price, yet :wink:


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

Hi Hendrik,

Thank You for posting the various Mic option demos of 1st Vlns playing staccato.

Love the sound and timbre of the violins. 

Please reserve a copy for me, just in case you run out of digital copies of this library :D 

Looking forward to hear, and know more about this and your future libraries. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## benmrx

DenisT @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> benmrx @ Fri Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Me either....., not so sure how anyone is _NOT_ going to buy this cause it sounds freakin' amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't know the price, yet :wink:
Click to expand...


True.., true. I'm in the camp that's hoping it will be priced similar to BWW, but you never know. I was also just goofin' a bit :mrgreen: For what ever reason the OT libraries and Teldex just resonate with me, so I might be a little more stoked on this release than others.


----------



## Arbee

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

Got to say, I'm REALLY liking what I hear so far 8) 


.


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

Hi,

Actually, I like the fact that Orch.Tools have layed out the floor plan for their libraries in advance. Which makes me feel that I can count on adding more options to enhance Berlin Strings via the additional future expansions they will offer. It will only get better, and better as you add the various Expansions, Same goes for their Brass, WW, & Perc. 

i.e. Orch.Tools Strings :

* Berlin Strings 
* EXP A : Special Bows I 
* EXP B : Special Bows II 
* EXP C : Soloists 
* EXP D : First Chairs 
* EXP E : String Effects 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## damstraversaz

the audio exemple are really great in my opinion.
About the solo strings and first chairs, could you explain a little more about the differences in your libraries ?
great work, really !


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira

damstraversaz @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> ... About the solo strings and first chairs, could you explain a little more about the differences in your libraries ?
> great work, really !



"Berlin Strings EXP C: Soloists": Solistic sampled strings from the Teldex Solo Booth.

"BERLIN STRINGS EXPansion D": First Chairs. Sampled at the Teldex Scoring Stage.


----------



## damstraversaz

thanks a lot Gabriel, I have see this, but I was curious if there is others change appart these one ( vibrato, expression etc)


----------



## Malo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*



> We don't know the price, yet



Well, we do have an indication that it will cost more than Cinestrings. Hendrik from OT wrote the following in this thread:
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... 0&start=35



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> They do very good products. I´m one of the many happy customers.
> Cinestrings and Berlin Strings are way too different. The pricing is completely different as well as the concepts and ideas.


----------



## Loeberg

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

Just saw this on their website (http://www.orchestraltools.com/techblog/index.html):



> It will be the core feature of the Playable Glissandi to be able to control the start, the ending and the tempo of glissandi with the keyboard - without having to adjust numerous settings or parameters. The playability is comparable to the Playable Runs patches. This means each note is playable by itself individually. The script for the instrument will determine the way in which the glissandi are executed based on the playing style."
> Stan Berzon
> 
> To bring this crazy idea to reality, we recorded a bunch of different glissandi styles and lengths during the recording sessions for Berlin Strings.
> 
> More info and a demonstration will follow soon in a new Chapter of the Berlin Strings video series.



This sounds very interesting indeed, looking very much forward to the legato walkthrough now!


----------



## thebob

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

edit - it didn't translate


----------



## Gusfmm

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement ["CHAPTER I: Short Notes" video added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> Thanks for all the feedback!
> 
> I made an audio demo for you to present the different mic positions we have included into Berlin Strings.
> It´s a simple Phrase played with the 1st Violins regular Staccato patch.
> 
> 1. All mics on
> 2. Concert Master mic
> 3. AB mics
> 4. TREE mics
> 5. CLOSE mics
> 6. SURROUND mics
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Hendrik



Hendrik, althought I'm listening through disposable headphones, the Concermaster mic sounds with slightly less first reflections than the Close mics, to me. Could this be an effect of the stereo field on the Close mic take (which was a surprise to me), or maybe the sorting got messed up? Or is it my mistake in the audition?


----------



## Gusfmm

One other question on the video audition- tone is lovely, but something grabbed my attention on the celli portatos at around that 2:15 segment. I can see the line is played live on a controller without any editing or other added verbs, but the notes sound somehow disconnected not in an effective (read realistic) way, it sounds as if a bit of the release is being trimmed (or a release not being played). For instance at 2:21-2:24. And I can see you're mixing close with tree and surround mics, so the ambient feeling sounds disjointed, again, to me. Could you confirm?


----------



## Malo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

A little more info on the OT site with production status on their Berlin series:

http://www.orchestraltools.com/observat ... rettyPhoto

o[])


----------



## Inceptic

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

Not sure if this has been asked before, but what is the difference between EXP C: Soloists and EXP D: First Chairs??


----------



## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*



Inceptic @ Tue Dec 10 said:


> Not sure if this has been asked before, but what is the difference between EXP C: Soloists and EXP D: First Chairs??



I'm guessing the EXP C will be done in a similar way to the BWW EXP B, where the focus was to record in the 'booth' at Teldex and NOT in the main hall in order to have more control over the sound. Almost more VSL like. With BWW EXP B they added in a Teldex IR in order to blend in with the orchestra. Could be wrong, but that's my guess.


----------



## lucor

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*



Inceptic @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> Not sure if this has been asked before, but what is the difference between EXP C: Soloists and EXP D: First Chairs??



If I understood it correctly, the First Chairs will be recorded directly on the Teldex Scoring Stage (so it will already be positioned correctly, have the room tone etc.), while the Soloists will be recorded in a small both, so the sound is absolutely dry and the instruments are more flexible to work with.


----------



## Walid F.

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*



lucor @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> Inceptic @ Wed Dec 11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if this has been asked before, but what is the difference between EXP C: Soloists and EXP D: First Chairs??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I understood it correctly, the First Chairs will be recorded directly on the Teldex Scoring Stage (so it will already be positioned correctly, have the room tone etc.), while the Soloists will be recorded in a small both, so the sound is absolutely dry and the instruments are more flexible to work with.
Click to expand...


Like Exp B for Berlin Woodwinds, they are indeed recorded in the dry booth, but they also give you an opportunity of using the IR of the Teldex stage, so you can still make them sit very nicely with samples recorded in that same room.


----------



## lucor

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*



Walid F. @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> ... but they also give you an opportunity of using the IR of the Teldex stage, so you can still make them sit very nicely with samples recorded in that same room.



What's the point of buying the First Chairs then? Different articulations?


----------



## Walid F.

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*



lucor @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> Walid F. @ Wed Dec 11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... but they also give you an opportunity of using the IR of the Teldex stage, so you can still make them sit very nicely with samples recorded in that same room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's the point of buying the First Chairs then? Different articulations?
Click to expand...


I think so, yes. And also that it actually is recorded in the Teldex stage, so it's really a first chair position for them, rather than the soloistic performance you would get in the booth. Compare "first chair" BWW (the original ones) with the solo Exp B additions. Perfect comparison in my mind.


----------



## Sid Francis

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

Besides: The library being 115GB compressed: how will it be delivered? The whole cake or several logical pieces?


----------



## aaronnt1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*



Malo @ Wed 11 Dec said:


> A little more info on the OT site with production status on their Berlin series:
> 
> http://www.orchestraltools.com/observat ... rettyPhoto
> 
> o[])



I'd like to know a bit more about the Extra Special bows. Will there be a range of articulations for each bowing technique, for example, will Sul Pont have legatos, sustains, tremolos and staccatos, and same for harmonics, or just a selection of them per bowing technique? Thanks.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [MIC POSITIONS demo added!]*

Hey Guys,

we´ve uploaded a new video about the Berlin Strings legatos!

CHAPTER II: Legato



Best, Hendrik


----------



## EwigWanderer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Great! Legato sounds very authentic o/~


----------



## jamwerks

Some great sounding stuff there!


----------



## kawaivpc1

What a perfect legato system! 
Many older string libraries have problem with playing fast passages with legato patches.
They have good sounding legato patches but when you play very fast passages, they start to mess up and sound really artificial... Think about super fast passages in 'Moldau'... I was never able to make realistic mockup of that orchestral piece due to poor legato patches. I had to use spiccato patches instead. 
A lot of older libraries are missing this 'fast legato' patch...

This one really covers up all downsides of older libraries.

I'm going to buy this!!!!!
_-)


----------



## Walid F.

The accentuations on the bow strokes is something that really caught my ears! Sounds amazing and realistic, and I can really imagine how useful all of these adaptive performance features will actually be in my writing. It's like Embertones solo strings, just with larger ensembles. -Awesome-!!

One thing though... 1st Violins legato: *4.36 GB*!?? :D

W.


----------



## Vovique

Amazing runs! And the GUI is so beautifully... Berlin-ish


----------



## aaronnt1

Walid F. @ Fri 13 Dec said:


> One thing though... 1st Violins legato: *4.36 GB*!?? :D
> 
> W.



I think all mics were loaded though right? 

This sounds really amazing, those legatos are superb and the tone of the instruments is really really nice! And loving those high cellos (though violas could perhaps go a little higher?). 

Great work!


----------



## SymphonicSamples

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Absolutely fabulous sounding library .. With only one string attached  The price ....


----------



## snattack

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

RELEASE IT NOW!!!!! :mrgreen:


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

After buying *everything* in the last 2 weeks and deciding to stop for the time being, I'm clearly going to have to make an exception... 

Sounds fantastic. 


One note, though. 
Towards the end of the video, you mention not being able to look into the future with regard to articulations changing suddenly. That's true of live playing, but live playing makes up a very small part of most composition workflows. After the part is played in, it is subsequently played back from the midi part. 

So given that the midi part has all of that information in - where the runs are, where the long notes are etc - couldn't you use that to determine in advance whether fast legato/runs/spiccato etc are activated?


----------



## AndyV

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

I loooove the sound of these strings. I held off on a lot of Black Friday purchases because I think OTT will be getting a lot of my money this year! Would love to hear all sections together. And Sascha's music from the announcement video was sublime. Resource hit is scary but maybe with purging and limited mics and bouncing to audio it will be workable. I'll go back to the "old" days of needing to bounce for that sound!


----------



## Diffusor

Fantastic! What's the total size of the library installed?


----------



## Sid Francis

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

4.96GB for the violins? Oooppsie. I just upgraded my machine to 24GB but to have to load 12-15 GB only for the longs alone is a bit steep. REAL need for some mix patches it seems.
At the moment my whole orchestral template is 15GB...

After watching the video again I presume I could click away the "runs" legatos and the "AB" and "Close" mics to save some space for sketching? Is the concert master mic the violin icon on the left? Also purgable?


----------



## Walid F.

aaronnt1 @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> Walid F. @ Fri 13 Dec said:
> 
> 
> 
> One thing though... 1st Violins legato: *4.36 GB*!?? :D
> 
> W.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think all mics were loaded though right?
> 
> This sounds really amazing, those legatos are superb and the tone of the instruments is really really nice! And loving those high cellos (though violas could perhaps go a little higher?).
> 
> Great work!
Click to expand...


I suppose so! but still.. If I want the full sound of all the sections, it's going up to 20-25 GB of RAM ONLY for legatos. 

*MR. SCHWARZER:* We would -really- like a Stereo Mix option for this!!

W.


----------



## valexnerfarious

This thing could replace my Hollywood Strings...this is amazing...its vey very ram heavy from what i can see on the video


----------



## Diffusor

valexnerfarious @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> This thing could replace my Hollywood Strings...this is amazing...its vey very ram heavy from what i can see on the video



Will be interesting to see how this library runs compared to Hollywood strings as it is obviously just as resource heavy if not more with all the adaptive stuff. I have confidence this will run better than PLAY.


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Oh come on... 4gb?! Really?! Do some Full Mix option... or at least promise this for 1.1 :/


----------



## AC986

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Hahaha! Very nice sound but 3 gigabytes plus for Violas?? 

I don't know how my current setup could come even close to dealing with that. I currently have 16 gigs of ram.


----------



## AC986

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Hahaha! Very nice sound but 3 gigabytes plus for Violas?? 

I don't know how my current setup could come even close to dealing with that. I currently have 16 gigs of ram.

I just noticed 4.36 GB for the violins? Can't see myself making that work in a template.


----------



## The Darris

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Well, I guess it is quite resonant on here with the concern about the library's size. I do understand that when you are dealing with extensively sampled content that size becomes a huge factor. I feel like this range is being designed almost as a Bespoke line for working/successful composers versus the ones who are still working their way up through the trenches. Personally, I would have to buy another RIG and slave it to run BWW alone based on current RAM specs of the patches. Oh well.

I will say that these legatos sound good but compared to some of my other libraries that are less than a quarter of the footprint needed to run them, I will have to turn in my excitement to a pass. I am looking forward to the day that I can actually utilize this library but by then, some new cutting edge library will be on the market. Haha. First world problems.


----------



## Enyak

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

RAM size isn't really the biggest concern for me... I feel like you can always just set Kontakt to force less RAM in the DFD streaming option, so RAM usage goes down to 1/2 or even 1/3 if you run it on a fast SSD instead at the push of a few buttons.

Like what I am hearing so far!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Hey Guys,

thanks so much for the great feedback.

Regarding the resource usage: Please keep in mind that *everything is loaded *(all mic positions, bow noises, all dynamic layer and every legato zone) in my screencast.
It isn´t a small library, of course but you have access to nearly everything to fit it to your computer resources.
We tried to avoid any kinds of compromises and I think you can hear that in the videos (also in the very first video where I used the strings to compose the background music). For me it makes sense to go that next step into the future of string sampling.
*But we have options included to minimize the resource usage.*

Best, Hendrik


----------



## jamwerks

That with 4 mic's loaded and maybe the preload buffer in K5 at the default setting. With SSD's you could probably cut that in 4!


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



Enyak @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> RAM size isn't really the biggest concern for me... I feel like you can always just set Kontakt to force less RAM in the DFD streaming option, so RAM usage goes down to 1/2 or even 1/3 if you run it on a fast SSD instead at the push of a few buttons.
> 
> Like what I am hearing so far!




For sure - you SSD'ers - set the buffer in K5 to 12K. Works fine here even with complex dense orchestrations streaming.


----------



## The Darris

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Hendrik, thanks for sharing that. Would you be willing to show some of the different configurations of loaded and unloaded samples so we can better access this library before release? I would personally love to hear the different mic configurations and not just separate so like, Close and Tree, Tree and Surround, etc? As well as with and without bow noise? It would be nice to hear how it would sound on my system (as well as many others') considering I don't have >16gb of RAM just for Berlin Strings' Legatos.

Thanks Hendrik and I look forward to more demos. Happy Holidays!!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

buffer was at default setting (64KB?).

It´s also questionable if you really use all MICs for all the sections at the same time...
(including Bow Noises, which is like an additional Mic Position).

Concertmaster can be purged as well.


----------



## MA-Simon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Sounds very good to me! 
I would like to hear some close mics stuff if possible. :D


----------



## korgscrew

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Its funny that people want Deep deep deep sampled strings, Round Robin legato, full use of mics, intelligent legato etc etc then are surprised when the patch memory is large.

C'mon guys, RAM is cheap and you can stuff it into desktops these days. If your desktop / laptop doesn't accept high RAM upgrades, maybe its time to get a new one. Times change. We can't use G4's forever! :roll: :wink: 

Really looking forward to the library!


----------



## aaronnt1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



korgscrew @ Fri 13 Dec said:


> Its funny that people want Deep deep deep sampled strings, Round Robin legato, full use of mics, intelligent legato etc etc then are surprised when the patch memory is large.
> 
> C'mon guys, RAM is cheap and you can stuff it into desktops these days. If your desktop / laptop doesn't accept high RAM upgrades, maybe its time to get a new one. Times change. We can't use G4's forever! :roll: :wink:
> 
> Really looking forward to the library!



+ 1.

I for one appreciate it when developers push the envelope. It's easy to build a PC more than cable of utilising Berlin Strings to it's full, it's just matter of whether you feel it's worth the investment. When Hollywood Strings came out, people complained frequently about how resource intensive it was and as a result, Hollywood Brass and Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds (though still excellent) were simply not as comprehensive and could easily have been as large as HS and they would have been even better for it.


----------



## Jordan Gagne

I keep forgetting how this is a relatively small this string section is. It sounds HUGE! I don't know where string sampling is going to go from here but I don't know how it can get any better based on the sound of what I've heard so far.

I think my rig will probably need an upgrade to be able to handle this library, but one day...


----------



## Walid F.

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



korgscrew @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> Its funny that people want Deep deep deep sampled strings, Round Robin legato, full use of mics, intelligent legato etc etc then are surprised when the patch memory is large.
> 
> C'mon guys, RAM is cheap and you can stuff it into desktops these days. If your desktop / laptop doesn't accept high RAM upgrades, maybe its time to get a new one. Times change. We can't use G4's forever! :roll: :wink:
> 
> Really looking forward to the library!



So we shouldn't strive for resource effective VSTi's? :D It can be deeply sampled, intelligent legato and all of that, but keep down the resources with stereo mixes, with some compromises and stuff. Since Hendrik said that they actually have included resource-saving options for this (and also the ability to remove some of the mics and options for even more saving), I'm not worried! 

Looking forward to this, guys.

W.


----------



## SamiMatar

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Love the dynamic intonation! Overall great sound.

Regarding RAM... One should always look to improve efficiency, but we have to be realistic and accept the fact the RAM requirements will only get higher. Its the nature of this business.


----------



## kawaivpc1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Don't worry about RAM memory guys.. I just bought a new motherboard that supports 64GB RAM! 

just release this beast!!!! o-[][]-o o-[][]-o o-[][]-o o-[][]-o o-[][]-o


----------



## ChrisL

Sounds great! Wish my Mac Mini supported more than 16 GB of RAM, though


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



kawaivpc1 @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> Don't worry about RAM memory guys.. I just bought a new motherboard that supports 64GB RAM!
> 
> just release this beast!!!! o-[][]-o o-[][]-o o-[][]-o o-[][]-o o-[][]-o



Remember the times when EWQLSO came out and we all had 2 or 4 GB max, and we had to buy more slaves for only using this library... . I had re-programmed the complete library because this reason... . (Took month to do it)


----------



## ysnyvz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

sounds awesome! 
about ram usage, kontakt doesn't show exactly how much ram a patch uses
for example each kontakt instance uses around 150 mb ram
and when kontakt shows 4 gb for a patch, it actually uses around 5-6 gb ram


----------



## OT_Tobias

Kontakt empty uses about 110 MB on my system. When loading patches some resources are used for scripts and GUI, but not so much. 4GB of samples uses about 4.5GB in total on my system.


----------



## ryans

Pretty impressive. Congratulations Orchestral Tools team!

Ryan


----------



## kawaivpc1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

I know... when EWQLSO first came out, my computer had 4GB RAM memory. And I had lot of problems using sample libraries... 
but now things have changed.. now one DDR3 ram memory can go up to 8GB-16GB.
There's a motherboard from MSI that supports up to 128GB RAM.
I think it won't be problem for anyone anymore.. 
What concerns me now these days is CPU power. Intel guys should make better and cheaper CPUs more... I will grab a new Six core CPU soon. Hope this one will not crash as often as the older one. o-[][]-o o[])


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



kawaivpc1 @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> I know... when EWQLSO first came out, my computer had 4GB RAM memory. And I had lot of problems using sample libraries...
> but now things have changed.. now one DDR3 ram memory can go up to 8GB-16GB.
> There's a motherboard from MSI that supports up to 128GB RAM.
> I think it won't be problem for anyone anymore..
> What concerns me now these days is CPU power. Intel guys should make better and cheaper CPUs more...



This 

I remember, I built "voice groups" e.t.c. .. . 

Watch this:

It's been exciting to see how to move forward rapidly progress.


----------



## jamwerks

And those sordinos...?


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## ryans

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



kawaivpc1 @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> I know... when EWQLSO first came out, my computer had 4GB RAM memory. And I had lot of problems using sample libraries...
> but now things have changed.. now one DDR3 ram memory can go up to 8GB-16GB.
> There's a motherboard from MSI that supports up to 128GB RAM.
> I think it won't be problem for anyone anymore..
> What concerns me now these days is CPU power. Intel guys should make better and cheaper CPUs more... I will grab a new Six core CPU soon. Hope this one will not crash as often as the older one. o-[][]-o o[])



Yeah well back in my day I was trying to make music with only 16 *mb* of ram so quit complaining :mrgreen:


----------



## ysnyvz

OT_Tobias @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> Kontakt empty uses about 110 MB on my system. When loading patches some resources are used for scripts and GUI, but not so much. 4GB of samples uses about 4.5GB in total on my system.


mac or pc?
i did that test a few times before, it is different in different systems
difference gets bigger as ram usage gets bigger
and also when you load a patch and close it, kontakt uses more ram than the empty instance that you opened first


----------



## OT_Tobias

PC, Win 8.1. What makes a BIG difference is the size of Kontakt's database. I keep it completely empty, this easily saves 50MB or so per instance.


----------



## germancomponist

ysnyvz @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> mac or pc?
> i did that test a few times before, it is different in different systems
> difference gets bigger as ram usage gets bigger
> and also when you load a patch and close it, kontakt uses more ram than the empty instance that you opened first



... and when you re-load it, it loads much faster... .  So it seems that there is something held in the RAM?


----------



## germancomponist

OT_Tobias @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> PC, Win 8.1. What makes a BIG difference is the size of Kontakt's database. I keep it completely empty, this easily saves 50MB or so per instance.



True!


----------



## The Darris

OT_Tobias @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> What makes a BIG difference is the size of Kontakt's database. I keep it completely empty, this easily saves 50MB or so per instance.



What do you mean? Like not have any libraries loaded in the library pane?


----------



## OT_Tobias

I mean the stuff saved in Kontakt's database tab where you can search for patches. While it is a great feature for convenience, for me the performance loss is too big to make it worth it.


----------



## germancomponist

OT_Tobias @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> I mean the stuff saved in Kontakt's database tab where you can search for patches. While it is a great feature for convenience, for me the performance loss is too big to make it worth it.



Haha, so you have too many libs... . 

But yes, you are right!


----------



## quantum7

Wow! I was holding out for Spitfire's Mural, but now am not sure since Berlin Strings is impressing me so much. I cannot wait to see more videos and hear more demos.


----------



## ysnyvz

OT_Tobias @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> PC, Win 8.1. What makes a BIG difference is the size of Kontakt's database. I keep it completely empty, this easily saves 50MB or so per instance.


yeah mine is empty too 
also difference between actual ram usage and what kontakt says is bigger with compressed (ncw) libs compared to uncompressed (wav) libs



> ... and when you re-load it, it loads much faster... .  So it seems that there is something held in the RAM?


yes 
anyway thanks to SSDs we can lower preload buffer size


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Daaaaaamn! Looks like another day 1 purchase. My credit card is going to catch on fire at this rate....any official word on a release date yet?


----------



## lucor

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



feck @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> Daaaaaamn! Looks like another day 1 purchase. My credit card is going to catch on fire at this rate....any official word on a release date yet?



They said they're aiming for a december release, so it shouldn't be to far away. Nothing specific yet, though.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

I'd love it yesterday but so appreciate it getting nearly perfect and ready for prime time. Hendrik and team always impress me in this way.


----------



## Malo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

@Hendrik:

The legatos and shorts sound wonderful, and the adaptive legato seems very intuitive. I like the way you can control the attack with velocity.

Two questions:
1. Are there full strings patches in Berlin Strings? I like them for sketching.
2. I have a 2009 Mac Pro 2x2.66Mhz with PCI based SSDs. Do you think there's any chance I will be able to run a full Berlin Strings template on this machine with some Kontakt preload buffer trickery, or will I need a slave?

Thanks!


----------



## The Darris

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Hendrik,

If you could release a RAM usage chart with all instrument articulations that would be awesome. For instance:

Full Mic = 'Xgb'
Close+Tree = 'Xgb'
etc.

Any information on this would be really awesome.


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

I really need to know how much this library is going to be.


----------



## M.K.

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Is there any vibrato control?


----------



## eric aron

this is the most beautiful string sound I've ever heard from a library. This will allow really expressive music writing. Bravo Hendrik, you have raised the bar far above... and I was wise to wait for my next purchases


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



The Darris @ Sat Dec 14 said:


> Hendrik,
> 
> If you could release a RAM usage chart with all instrument articulations that would be awesome.


It really depends on the buffer setting you using in Kontakt.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Absolutely. I used the standard buffer sizes.

For me the Tree is the most important mic position. That´s what they use mostly in orchestral film recordings at Teldex. I´ll use that in my template and maybe some Close here and there and that´s it. 
Later in the mixing process you can export every mic position one by one to add them to the final mix. This way it is possible to use it in a much, much more economic way (maybe a quarter of the ram showed in the screencast).


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

What I forgot to mention in the legato screencast are the following features:

1. We recorded true repetitions on the same note in the legatos. That means if you repeat the same note within a legato phrase, a restroke transition will be added.

2. As we have captured different attacks, you can also add a soft decay for the end of a phrase. We recorded special phrase endings for that which will be added with the sustain pedal. This way a running note will not be chopped up.

3. We recorded up to 3 different vibrato expressions (romantic, without and strong), which will be switchable by a cc of your choice.

4. There is a new much smoother and convincing way in the adaptive engine how we blend over from the transitions to the sustains.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## kawaivpc1

can we get this library next week?


----------



## DDK

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Love to hear a lush warm string textures so 
I can hear how they blend together


----------



## Guy Rowland

Dammit this really does sound good, doesn't it? I love all the scripting ideas. Can you tweak stuff like the transition switching points between articulations? I'd love to put port on the softest key velocity cos my brain is hard wired that way from LASS and other libraries.



OT_Tobias @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> PC, Win 8.1. What makes a BIG difference is the size of Kontakt's database. I keep it completely empty, this easily saves 50MB or so per instance.



Wow - didn't know that at all, that's well worth knowing if you have dozens of instances that soon adds up, and I'm sure it'll help with template load times.

So on the ram usage thing - 4.4gb for 5 mics = 880mb per mic. If you're on preload buffers of 18 that goes down to 260mb, which I'd say is pretty standard for a legato patch, and this has all those cool artics loaded by default.

Is there any reason why it can't run fully purged? Is it all DFD streaming?


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Thanks Guy! It´s all DFD.

Changing switching points is a great idea but I don´t see enough time for it until release...


----------



## Jordan Gagne

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 14 said:


> Dammit this really does sound good, doesn't it? I love all the scripting ideas. Can you tweak stuff like the transition switching points between articulations? I'd love to put port on the softest key velocity cos my brain is hard wired that way from LASS and other libraries.
> 
> 
> 
> OT_Tobias @ Fri Dec 13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PC, Win 8.1. What makes a BIG difference is the size of Kontakt's database. I keep it completely empty, this easily saves 50MB or so per instance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow - didn't know that at all, that's well worth knowing if you have dozens of instances that soon adds up, and I'm sure it'll help with template load times.
> 
> So on the ram usage thing - 4.4gb for 5 mics = 880mb per mic. If you're on preload buffers of 18 that goes down to 260mb, which I'd say is pretty standard for a legato patch, and this has all those cool artics loaded by default.
> 
> Is there any reason why it can't run fully purged? Is it all DFD streaming?
Click to expand...


Guy, can you explain preload buffers in kontakt to me? I've seen it come up now and then in regards to reducing RAM, and I'm in sore need of that at the moment.


----------



## Assa

Jordan Gagne @ Sat Dec 14 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dammit this really does sound good, doesn't it? I love all the scripting ideas. Can you tweak stuff like the transition switching points between articulations? I'd love to put port on the softest key velocity cos my brain is hard wired that way from LASS and other libraries.
> 
> 
> 
> OT_Tobias @ Fri Dec 13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PC, Win 8.1. What makes a BIG difference is the size of Kontakt's database. I keep it completely empty, this easily saves 50MB or so per instance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow - didn't know that at all, that's well worth knowing if you have dozens of instances that soon adds up, and I'm sure it'll help with template load times.
> 
> So on the ram usage thing - 4.4gb for 5 mics = 880mb per mic. If you're on preload buffers of 18 that goes down to 260mb, which I'd say is pretty standard for a legato patch, and this has all those cool artics loaded by default.
> 
> Is there any reason why it can't run fully purged? Is it all DFD streaming?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Guy, can you explain preload buffers in kontakt to me? I've seen it come up now and then in regards to reducing RAM, and I'm in sore need of that at the moment.
Click to expand...


Here is a video from Alex Pfeffer explaining it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpjmbZ3h9KA


----------



## Guy Rowland

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Cheers Hendrik, good news on DFD and maybe those tweaks are a candidate for a future revision....

Jordan - briefly so as not to get the thread off topic, but it's the defined amount of each instrument's sample start that gets loaded into ram. When a sample is called, Kontakt starts playing from RAM while finding the rest from disk, and switching over when ready (mind boggling to consider how much is going on all the time). With conventional drives, you might set the figure as anywhere between 36-80k (the Kontakt default is 60). With SSDs you can get that figure way down between 6-18k. I've found my hassle-free sweet spot is to purge all samples completely at startup, and run at 18. 6 or 12 works well mostly, but I do get the occasional glitch.


----------



## Jordan Gagne

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 14 said:


> Cheers Hendrik, good news on DFD and maybe those tweaks are a candidate for a future revision....
> 
> Jordan - briefly so as not to get the thread off topic, but it's the defined amount of each instrument's sample start that gets loaded into ram. When a sample is called, Kontakt starts playing from RAM while finding the rest from disk, and switching over when ready (mind boggling to consider how much is going on all the time). With conventional drives, you might set the figure as anywhere between 36-80k (the Kontakt default is 60). With SSDs you can get that figure way down between 6-18k. I've found my hassle-free sweet spot is to purge all samples completely at startup, and run at 18. 6 or 12 works well mostly, but I do get the occasional glitch.



Interesting. For someone who is hitting the ceiling of a 16 GB ceiling (and dreaming of a day of 32+ GB), is it possible that an SSD might be a better investment than a 32 GB system, given that an SSD preload buffer would essentially give you twice as much RAM?


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Sat Dec 14 said:


> What I forgot to mention in the legato screencast are the following features:
> 
> 1. We recorded true repetitions on the same note in the legatos.


Listened again to the screencast, and really like what I hear. Controlling the attacks like you've done is something I really been missing in other libraries. You undoubtedly put lots if time into these legato.

Just to be clear, If I play a repetitive figure between two notes (C-E-C-E-C-E etc.) it will alter between 2 or more transitions?

As for the discount period when the library comes out, I'd suggest to extend that a day or two into January for credit card reasons. We're probably all broke with the holidays coming.


----------



## Guy Rowland

(we should do this in a new thread really Jordan - but possibly - it's a complex set of pros and cons)

Back to Berlin!


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



Jordan Gagne @ Sat Dec 14 said:


> given that an SSD preload buffer would essentially give you twice as much RAM?


Even 3-5 times as much, depending on cpu & memory speed.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



> Just to be clear, If I play a repetitive figure between two notes (C-E-C-E-C-E etc.) it will alter between 2 or more transitions?



@jamwerks: No, it means that if the same notes comes twice (from e to e) there is also a specific "transition" for that.

But BTW there will be a special Ostinato Legato patch which addresses repetitive transitions as well.

Best, Hendrik


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

This kind of thing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PztMcNH8t2g&list=PLCF452EA1AE2F6205&index=5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PztMcNH8 ... 05&amp;index=5)

And anything on the post-realitime playback idea? 

Given that 99‰ of the sample performances we hear are on playback from a pre-existing midi track rather than live, wouldn't it make sense to make use of this? Some sort of midi analysis thing which knows when and where the runs/spiccs/long flowing legato lines etc are...


----------



## kawaivpc1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

I just bought ASUS Rampage IV Black Edition which came out 2 months ago...
o-[][]-o =o


----------



## zacnelson

Is there any facility for polyphonic legato?


----------



## muk

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



wilx @ Sat Dec 14 said:


> Given that 99‰ of the sample performances we hear are on playback from a pre-existing midi track rather than live, wouldn't it make sense to make use of this? Some sort of midi analysis thing which knows when and where the runs/spiccs/long flowing legato lines etc are...




Sorry to be OT, maybe we should open a new thread for this.
It is possible to do this (at least in notation programs), as proven by Wallander's Note Performer. Somehow it reads ahead in the score and uses the info for playback decisions. It does a great job at making notation playback sound *musical* (the algorithms are based on analyses of real performances).

I would love to have something similar in a sample library. I guess it would be some sort of script that you could turn of when playing live and switch back on in playback situations. However, it would have to be slightly different. It wouldn't be necessary to alter timing, phrasing and such since that's played in rather than just notated. But it should be able to interpret the playing to choose fitting articulations etc.
I never quite understood why it is not possible for a sample library to automatically trigger a staccato/spiccato sample when playing a short note in a certain style, or a legato when overlapping notes. That might not work for live playing, but certainly for later playback. Would be a *huge* timesaver.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



muk @ Sun Dec 15 said:


> It is possible to do this (at least in notation programs)


For that in the sample world, that might need to be a implemented by Kontakt itself, rather than developers.


----------



## Symfoniq

The new demo videos sound amazing. Really looking forward to seeing this released.


----------



## Enyak

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Hah, there's a date on the Orchestral Tools Website for the lib now. It's next saturday (21)!


----------



## Frankly-h

This sound absolutely wonderful. I wish I had the money and resources to purchase it


----------



## muk

Six days, then. I'm looking forward to the upcoming demos and the first reviews.


----------



## korgscrew

Still waiting on price. Nothing mentioned, even after some people asking. Ive got a feeling ill be shocked either way!


----------



## Saxer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

i think the release date will destroy some x-mas family togetherness around the world :wink:


----------



## korgscrew

Haha, the turkey will be burnt!

Im torn between Berlin strings & Adagio at the moment! Im just glad I've never had a credit card!


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

It's going to be a very exciting Winter Solstice  

Looking forward to hear more audio demos/videos in the next few days.

Q. Will this be a watermarked library ? 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## ysnyvz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

my guess is 799 euros :D


----------



## korgscrew

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



muziksculp @ Mon Dec 16 said:


> It's going to be a very exciting Winter Solstice
> 
> Looking forward to hear more audio demos/videos in the next few days.
> 
> Q. Will this be a watermarked library ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Im guessing so. Arnt all OT libraries? Lets not get into the whole watermarking topic again ala protected rights! :roll:


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



korgscrew @ Sun Dec 15 said:


> muziksculp @ Mon Dec 16 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's going to be a very exciting Winter Solstice
> 
> Looking forward to hear more audio demos/videos in the next few days.
> 
> Q. Will this be a watermarked library ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im guessing so. Arnt all OT libraries? Lets not get into the whole watermarking topic again ala protected rights! :roll:
Click to expand...


I'm guessing so too. But not 100% sure, that's why I asked.


----------



## quantum7

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



ysnyvz @ Sun Dec 15 said:


> my guess is 799 euros :D



If so, too rich for my blood!


----------



## ysnyvz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



quantum7 @ Sun Dec 15 said:


> If so, too rich for my blood!



well BWW is €549 with 11 solo instruments and 2 a3 ensembles and it's 120 gb
BST is 28 instruments and 250 gb
also some other strings libs are still around 1000 dollars
so i think my guess is rational
but i hope it will be cheaper :D


----------



## star.keys

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Size isn't everything.. A fair price would be around 500, given there will be expansions coming in later at additional price


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*

Hey Guys,

the full articulation list and pricing will be announced tomorrow. 

Our friend Sascha made a mockup of a famous classical piece.
This is the "Trépak" - the Russian Dance from Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Ballet Suite. Its done with Berlin Strings, Berlin Woodwinds (+ EXP A for the Bass Clarinet) and The Timpani. The Brass is the custom library I did with Sascha - also recorded at Teldex. The only thing, Sascha isn't happy with, is the Tambourine, which is also the only instrument in this mock-up, that isn't recorded at Teldex unfortunately. 

You can have a look at the score here, if you want: http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/84/IMSLP01090-Tchaikovsky_-_Nutcracker_Suite_IV.pdf

Trépak (mockup made by Sascha Knorr)
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/berlin_strings_trepak.mp3[/mp3]

All the best,

Hendrik


----------



## handz

I cant say Im extremely excited by this mockup, dont sound bad but not sounds so great it would blow other libs out of wather either, and considering how resource hungry it is...

. I love BWW and OSR but this lib dont seems to be a must have like these two to me. 

I still miss llib with a nice lush tone. Best string demos I probably heard were for HS but well, it was because TJ did them.


----------



## jamwerks

Extremely difficult to pull a piece like that off with samples. Nice work!


----------



## kawaivpc1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

wow... this sounds 100% real. I can't tell if this is fake or real... seriously. 
If someone told me this was real one, I would believe it. 
This is REAL!!!
Congrats guys! I'm saving up money for this one.. I will buy it ASAP o/~ o/~ o/~


----------



## Conor

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

Sounds like this library will do a great job with fast, agile lines!

It also sounds like you guys intend to keep trolling us with this not-available-for-purchase brass library!!

Ah well, you win some, you lose some.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

Thanks so much for the great feedback

@CobraTrumpet: It´s not our intention to loose or win buyers with our custom samples. Sascha isn´t part of OT. He is a very good friend of mine and and we sampled this custom brass on less than a weekend. It´s everything but not complete.


----------



## Conor

@Hendrik: I mean only that I am impatient for Berlin Brass.  (Which I understand is a completely different thing.)


----------



## james7275

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

The strings do sound good in this piece. But it seems like my attention was honing in on the brass as well.

I don't know if I''ll buy this library, but I know I'll be waiting impatiently for your brass release.


----------



## quantum7

Great mockup!


----------



## blougui

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

Congratulations !
Impressive work, really.
Fast Shorts are amazing.


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

Hello Hendrik,

Great sounding demo. The short String articulations are very animated, have a realistic bouncy-bow feel to them, nice and airy, and great timbre as well. (no harshness), and very enjoyable to listen to. Actually, they sound very, very real o/~ 

The only thing I would comment on, is that this piece is a bit too busy with the Brass, , so if I may suggest a bit less of Brass, in future demos, since it would be easier to evaluate the strings, maybe some woodwinds would be a nice touch, but Brass is a bit too loud to isolate the Strings from. 

So far, I love everything I heard from your _OT Berlin Strings_ Demos. and Look forward to listen to more demos, maybe videos, and eventually buying it, and many of your upcoming new libraries. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



muziksculp @ Mon Dec 16 said:


> Hello Hendrik,
> 
> Great sounding demo. The short String articulations are very animated, have a realistic bouncy-bow feel to them, nice and airy, and great timbre as well. (no harshness), and very enjoyable to listen to. Actually, they sound very, very real o/~
> 
> The only thing I would comment on, is that this piece is a bit too busy with the Brass, , so if I may suggest a bit less of Brass, in future demos, since it would be easier to evaluate the strings, maybe some woodwinds would be a nice touch, but Brass is a bit too loud to isolate the Strings from.
> 
> So far, I love everything I heard from your _OT Berlin Strings_ Demos. and Look forward to listen to more demos, maybe videos, and eventually buying it, and many of your upcoming new libraries.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp




heck - just post the strings only. I bet it will blow us away at it's nimble handling of this material. :D


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

Sounds great. I have money at the ready.... 8)


----------



## Justin Miller

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

awesome clarity in the fast lines.. great work! On a side note, if its not a big inconvenience, could you post another bounce of the track with less reverb, maybe just more close mic? I think its just a little bit more saturated than a real recording of that would be produced, and I would like to see how it handles that more in your face sound with the strings. Awesome mockup :D


----------



## reddognoyz

it sounds awesome, if I was conducting this, (which I solely promise will never happen), I would ask the violins for a crisper and more prominent and forceful expression of the 16th note phrase on the "and of one" of the first and second measure of the opening motif. ,,, but i wouldn't want to have to sequence it. 

edit:

I played this for my wife and she said she felt that how it's generally articulated live, at least how she remembers it. mushy. so I may have spent too much time with samples, in fact i KNOW i've spent too much time with samples.

Sasha, awesome as always. A must buy for me.


----------



## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

Finally got a chance to check out the Legato Screencast and Saschas new mockup. All I can say is.... thank you. More confirmation that _this_ is the strings library I've been waiting for. 

Amazing work.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

Thanks again for the great Response!

There is another new feature I would like to show you. 
In a special practice we recorded and isolated the natural noises of the bows of nearly all the articulations. The difference is more subtle but it is designed to raise the expression. It is like an additional layer you are able to control via cc to express something through the preasure of the bow to the strings.

1. normal
2. with bow expressions


[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_noises_demo.mp3[/mp3]

Best, Hendrik


----------



## muk

Great feature, Hendrik! And another lovely demo, very expressive. Sounds so real.

Judging from this demo, bow expression could be awesome to create a more intimate, smaller sound.


----------



## Sid Francis

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

I love it, I love it. Could even be a tiny bit louder  I know this effect from the Session Strings and I have the bow fully in for intimate ensembles. It really makes a difference.


----------



## muk

If I'm not mistaken, the full articulation list and pricing will be anounced today, too.


----------



## eric aron

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Screencast CHAPTER II: LEGATOS added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Dec 16 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> the full articulation list and pricing will be announced tomorrow.
> 
> Our friend Sascha made a mockup of a famous classical piece.
> This is the "Trépak" - the Russian Dance from Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Ballet Suite. Its done with Berlin Strings, Berlin Woodwinds (+ EXP A for the Bass Clarinet) and The Timpani. The Brass is the custom library I did with Sascha - also recorded at Teldex. The only thing, Sascha isn't happy with, is the Tambourine, which is also the only instrument in this mock-up, that isn't recorded at Teldex unfortunately.
> 
> You can have a look at the score here, if you want: http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/84/IMSLP01090-Tchaikovsky_-_Nutcracker_Suite_IV.pdf
> 
> Trépak (mockup made by Sascha Knorr)
> [mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/berlin_strings_trepak.mp3[/mp3]
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Hendrik




this demo is brilliant. the sound is detailled, expressive, and fill the space without artificial feeling. a beautiful result for such challenging task, bravo. i also would like to hear the strings parts only. or a string only mockup.. some Dvorak? Tchaikovsky S6?


----------



## aaronnt1

muk @ Tue 17 Dec said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the full articulation list and pricing will be anounced today, too.



So they said... perhaps they are still mulling over the price even now! Come on guys, sell it for £250 and you'll sell thousands of copies tonight! :mrgreen:


----------



## Peter Alexander

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

most impressive. Excellent work Sascha.


----------



## BenG

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

I really like your demo of the Trepak Sascha! I was actually at the ballet just the other day so it's a vivid comparison. Personally, I would like the strings a bit sharper but that is just my opinion. 

I still remember playing this very piece, trust me it's much more fun to listen than actually playing it

Anyway, the bow noise/expression is a great idea and I love this idea. I was one of the few people that liked this when it was a 'recording mistake' in other libs, sounds so real and natural. Great work!


----------



## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

Out of pure curiousity, and without trying to derail this thread, but has any other developer had a demo like this (classical piece) with their string library?


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

Sure! Check the VsL web site ...


----------



## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



FriFlo @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> Sure! Check the VsL web site ...



Thanks! I always forget about VSL. 

.... and now back to your regularly scheduled program....


----------



## Simon Ravn

1 hour left Hendrik...


----------



## muk

You sure don't value quitting time Simon


----------



## Richard Bowling

Simon Ravn @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> 1 hour left Hendrik...



just watching the clock myself...


----------



## RiffWraith

Simon Ravn @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> 1 hour left Hendrik...



Yeah - but which clock is he going by? His? Mine? (Not that I have any idea why on earth he would do that.....) Honolulu? (In which case he has about 12 hrs. left....)

I am hedging my bet on €549. Who is with me? :D


----------



## eschroder

I'm with you! =]


----------



## muk

749€ it'll be. Does the one with the closest bet win a free copy?


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



kawaivpc1 @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> wow... this sounds 100% real. I can't tell if this is fake or real... seriously.
> If someone told me this was real one, I would believe it.
> This is REAL!!!
> Congrats guys! I'm saving up money for this one.. I will buy it ASAP o/~ o/~ o/~



...

When did the last time listened to a concert by a real orchestra?


----------



## mark812

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

My bet is 600€, intro. With expansions it could be around 1300.


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

Hendrik, this is not fair! You are in the German time zone! 
My bet would be 799€ and an early bird offer of 150€ off. But it could rightfully be more, as LASS is still at $999 and this looks like way more content ...


----------



## ed buller

i think this will be over 4 figures

e


----------



## korgscrew

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



FriFlo @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> Hendrik, this is not fair! You are in the German time zone!
> My bet would be 799€ and an early bird offer of 150€ off. But it could rightfully be more, as LASS is still at $999 and this looks like way more content ...



No con sord, no FX. Sable is 4 figures with everything. This is the Berlin equivalent to cine strings, no matter how they spin it.


----------



## ed buller

loads more content

e


----------



## korgscrew

In what context?

Shorts, legato, pizz, col legs, longs. 

Have you seen an arts list we haven't?


----------



## ed buller

well just the sheer no of samples for one

e


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



korgscrew @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> FriFlo @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hendrik, this is not fair! You are in the German time zone!
> My bet would be 799€ and an early bird offer of 150€ off. But it could rightfully be more, as LASS is still at $999 and this looks like way more content ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No con sord, no FX. Sable is 4 figures with everything. This is the Berlin equivalent to cine strings, no matter how they spin it.
Click to expand...

That was a joke, right?


----------



## ed buller

no i have not......i just don't think this is comparable to cinestrings at all. And therefore ...again just guesswork..i think it will be more expensive. Possibly a lot more. But i really don't know.


e


----------



## korgscrew

More speculation than a joke. 

The first volume looks pretty much the same Arts in a different room. But the expansions will go further. Again, just speculation. 

I was more hinting towards how a lot were hailing CS then were disappointed after purchase.

If it is 4 figures, then you have to look at the value you get from Adagio. Divisi, solo, hundreds of different shorts, dynamic bows. 

To be honest, I'm more annoyed at myself for wanting this when I should be using what I already have! :D


----------



## FriFlo

korgscrew @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> In what context?
> 
> Shorts, legato, pizz, col legs, longs.
> 
> Have you seen an arts list we haven't?


Obviously, you weren't joking ...
Well, the uncompressed library size and the sheer number of different short notes, sustains and transitions we have heard from at this point. IMO that does not explain the library size yet, so I am most thrilled to get more info! But we can certainly say it is quite some bigger cat than CineStrings ...


----------



## korgscrew

Size isn't everything. HZ was 60 gigs plus. Berlin woodwinds, a much bigger library in instrument collection around 60 gigs. You can't judge it by the amount of gigs. It all depends what bit depth the samples are, compression etc.


----------



## Dan Mott

korgscrew @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> More speculation than a joke.
> 
> The first volume looks pretty much the same Arts in a different room. But the expansions will go further. Again, just speculation.
> 
> I was more hinting towards how a lot were hailing CS then were disappointed after purchase.
> 
> If it is 4 figures, then you have to look at the value you get from Adagio. Divisi, solo, hundreds of different shorts, dynamic bows.
> 
> To be honest, I'm more annoyed at myself for wanting this when I should be using what I already have! :D




I'm a bit of a string nut.

However, after some regretful purchasing decisions, I made a promise to my self that I will only get a new string lib if its....


1. Has a much better sound than the one I am currently using

2. Has a better workflow

3. Good customer service


All those have to be combined.

Most importantly. If Berlin Strings does not beat the sound of your currently strings by a long shot. There is no need for it.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*

Hey Guys,

we´re happy to announce the full articulation list, pricing and pre-order today!

Berlin Strings is our most extensive sample library and a lot of innovation went into its concept, recordings and scripting.
With more than 250GB of samples it is a multifaceted work horse which will support you getting a huge variety of different colors and shades into your orchestrations.

Here is the full articulation list.
Please keep in mind that not every articulation is a seperate patch.
So there are more articulations than patches of course...

http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_artic_list.pdf


*Splitted Intro Special*

*Normal pricing will be: *
€ 839,50 (outside EU) 
€ 999.- (Germany + EU incl. VAT)

*Pre-Order (ends Dec. 21 ´13):* 
€ 671,43 (outside EU)
€ 799.- (Germany + EU incl. VAT)

*Intro (ends Jan. 3 ´14):* 
€ 755,46 (outside EU)
€ 899.- (Germany + EU incl. VAT)

Berlin Strings will be available exclusively at:
http://www.orchestraltools.com

More info will follow during the next days!


All the best,

The OT-Team


----------



## ed buller

Sweet...very attractive pricing. Well done Berlin. Can you fix the link please

e


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Wow - a little higher than I expected. Normal pricing in USD is right around $1250. Either way, best of luck with this!

Curious tho - how come it's more money if you live in Germany, than the rest of the EU?

N/m - seems the post was edited.


----------



## Dan Mott

Pretty impressive articulations list. I must say.


Also. There at least needs to be a demo (naked) using all the sections together before the 21st.


----------



## eschroder

Cool. I know you have trills up the to the 5th in Symphonic Sphere... was really hoping this would have it as well. Any thoughts on adding it or is that for another volume perhaps?


----------



## Guy Rowland

Dan Mott @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> Pretty impressive articulations list. I must say.
> 
> 
> Also. There at least needs to be a demo (naked) using all the sections together before the 21st.



Agreed to both!

4 days must be the shortest pre-order offer in VI history - I prophecy a frenzied clamour for many more walkthroughs and plenty of demos.


----------



## ed buller

if we all chip in a tenner...someone is the guinea pig...and reports back ?

e


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

EURO to USD today = $926 (pre order). Anyone seeing a conversion trend in the next 4 days :wink:


----------



## Graham Keitch

Dan Mott @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> Pretty impressive articulations list. I must say.
> 
> 
> Also. There at least needs to be a demo (naked) using all the sections together before the 21st.



Agreed - this is a lot of money to be parting with! I have every faith in OT but this is a lot of money up front considering I already own Sable and CS2. To be honest, I'd rather pay full price later down the line once I'm certain this really is a winner. My New Years resolution (although it isn't New Year yet!) is to hold off. I did that with CineStrings and judging by some of the feedback, I'm glad I did. However, a really generous pre-order price might (almost certainly will) make me change my mind!  

Graham


----------



## quantum7

:( A little pricier than I had hoped also. I'm sure it will be a great library, though, but I guess I should wait for Spitfire's Mural before even thinking of spending that kind of money right now....especially since I already own Adagio strings and Sable. I wonder if those who skipped the Cinestrings $400 promo price to hold out for Berlin Strings are going to feel now with this costing two and a half times more money. At least I know I will have extra Christmas money now.


----------



## star.keys

Impressive articulation list... A bit more expensive than anticipated. Pre-order decision worth EUR 799 based on couple of demo tracks is high risk on wallet, am hoping for more content rich & naked demos that demonstrate the value...


----------



## jleckie

get 'em quick.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/12/1 ... UU20131217


----------



## jamwerks

Well, this is higher than I was thinking. I'm not contesting the price, but it's not an "automatic buy". I like a lot of what I've heard. It would be nice to know what Adagio Vol II and Mural is going to include before deciding, but will we find that out in the next few days?

Too bad imo about not including double & triple strokes for violas @ celli. I would do that just as much as for violins.

And is there any statements about the inclusion of the con sordino technology talked about on their blog?


----------



## DocMidi657

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Higher price than I thought as well. Unfortunately have to pass as well.


----------



## ryanstrong

Guy Rowland @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> Dan Mott @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty impressive articulations list. I must say.
> 
> 
> Also. There at least needs to be a demo (naked) using all the sections together before the 21st.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed to both!
> 
> 4 days must be the shortest pre-order offer in VI history - I prophecy a frenzied clamour for many more walkthroughs and plenty of demos.
Click to expand...


Yes would love to see more walkthroughs and naked demos before 21.


----------



## FriFlo

Bought ... without any hesitation! This is such a good company, who never let me down thus far and the articulation list has so many things I am looking for. Only exceptions: missing ostinato legatos on the viola and playable glissandi only for Vl1. Maybe that could be added later ...


----------



## quantum7

jleckie @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> get 'em quick.
> http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/12/1 ... UU20131217



I guess that if you live in the USA, companies like 8dio and Cinesamples will become even more desirable with this. Perhaps the days of even buying from my beloved Spitfire will come to an end if the US dollar keeps falling against the Euro- I sure hope not. :(


----------



## JE Martinsen

quantum7 @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> At least I know I will have extra Christmas money now.



Hehe, I have to admit I felt a little relieved to know the price of this.. :lol: 

I love what I've heard so far though! Maybe someday.. :mrgreen: 

Congratulations on the release of Berlin Strings, Hendrik!


----------



## BenG

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Articulation list is quite amazing! Time to start saving


----------



## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Well..., this _is_ the strings library I've been waiting for, but it's just too much for my wallet with the current exchange rate. I was hoping the intro price would have been closer to $750 US, but it's not in the cards. I love my BWW library, and I hope to add these strings to my collection someday in the future. 

All that said, I really think Hendrik and OT team have done a freakin' amazing job with this library. The articluations list is astounding. Well done.


----------



## M.K.

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Need more demos showing the different kinds of vibrato expressions...

By the way, is it possible to smoothly transition from one kind of vibrato to another with CC?
For example, starting notes with no vibrato then transitioning into vibrato?


----------



## Symfoniq

Not really surprised by the pricing (the sound seems "premium"), but agree that it would be nice to hear more demos before the pre-order pricing expires.


----------



## muziksculp

Symfoniq @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> Not really surprised by the pricing (the sound seems "premium"), but agree that it would be nice to hear more demos before the pre-order pricing expires.



+1

Yes, more audio/video demos will be helpful to pre-order. Hopefully they will post some before the 21st. Quite an extensive list of articulations ! 

I did not see *Marcato* articulations listed. Any feedback on this ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## kawaivpc1

check my old post.. I said I was expecting 1000 euros for this library and it turned out that I was correct. 
I knew they would ask 1000 euros... that's how this library sounded. This is much better than LASS or Cinestrings, Adagio. 
All of these libraries are missing delicate fast legato patches. They can make good mockup for sustain strings but none of the sounds good with fast transition legato phrases. They all start to mess up. 

I think this library truly concludes 'Sampling'... can there be better library than this one? I wonder...


----------



## Dan Mott

kawaivpc1 @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> check my old post.. I said I was expecting 1000 euros for this library and it turned out that I was correct.
> I knew they would ask 1000 euros... that's how this library sounded. This is much better than LASS or Cinestrings, Adagio.
> All of these libraries are missing delicate fast legato patches. They can make good mockup for sustain strings but none of the sounds good with fast transition legato phrases. They all start to mess up.
> 
> I think this library truly concludes 'Sampling'... can there be better library than this one? I wonder...




Dude...


Based on a couple of short demos which weren't naked and A few videos. No way can anyone say this concludes sampling. Or perhaps you didn't mean that literally?

Need to hear more.

String sample libs could easily get better. Always room for improvement in the string world.


----------



## Richard Bowling

I definitely appreciate OT's libraries thus far, and though I like what I hear of the Berln Strings so far I would not say it concludes sampling-- it appears without doubt to compliment other Strings for sure.


----------



## quantum7

kawaivpc1 @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> check my old post.. I said I was expecting 1000 euros for this library and it turned out that I was correct.
> I knew they would ask 1000 euros... that's how this library sounded. This is much better than LASS or Cinestrings, Adagio.
> All of these libraries are missing delicate fast legato patches. They can make good mockup for sustain strings but none of the sounds good with fast transition legato phrases. They all start to mess up.
> 
> I think this library truly concludes 'Sampling'... can there be better library than this one? I wonder...



There is absolutely no way one can say that this is better than LASS, Cinestrings, or Adagio without actually owning and really digging into the library first.....not to mention also owning all the inferior libraries you mentioned. "Concludes sampling"????? I want what you are smoking.  OK then....bye bye now.


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

No harmonics
No sul pont tremolo
No cc controlled vibrato
No Full Mix mic option
4gb legato patches

and $ 1200? 

Sorry, I'll pass :roll:


----------



## lettucehat

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Even after OT's own demos showcasing the library, I have serious doubts about whether the short articulations are up to the standard of libraries that came out years ago - LASS, HS, CS2... Something about the shorts just takes me out of the realism of the demos. They sound very sterile, even a little synthy. I will say that the legatos are the best I've ever heard, so I hope the same all-around quality to be found in BWW can be found in this library, for all articulations. For the price, I'd really want to hear demos focused solely on dry performances of the many types of shorts... with all of those RRs, you'd want them to be well recorded!


----------



## ryanstrong

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

If you just have say the TREE mics enabled on the legato patches how much is loaded into ram?


----------



## MA-Simon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Way to expensive for me. 
Once again the everything in one big package approach smashes all hope for non music business musicians.

I would have hoped for a more condensed articulation list for a more competetive price.
A lot of these articulation read like they could be in an expansion package.

There is hoping for a light version?


----------



## korgscrew

I would need to see a serious walk through before parting with that amount of cash for the pre order that has 3 Days left. BEFORE CHRISTMAS!


----------



## Jordan Gagne

I'm wondering how on earth it is possible to manage that giant list of articulations in a template. Will there be any kind of keyswitching patch or script to condense these? I know OT doesn't usually offer this feature but while the articulation list is very impressive, at a certain point it becomes too much to manage. Maybe that's just me.


----------



## muziksculp

Jordan Gagne @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> I'm wondering how on earth it is possible to manage that giant list of articulations in a template. Will there be any kind of keyswitching patch or script to condense these? I know OT doesn't usually offer this feature but while the articulation list is very impressive, at a certain point it becomes too much to manage. Maybe that's just me.



Same thought crossed my mind. 

How would one manage all these articulations, i.e. switch between them ? having a track for each artic. is going to require a huge template, and can get annoying to deal with in a complex arrangement. 

I would like to know more about this important detail from OT. Maybe they have a good solution already devised. But, I have no clue at this time.


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Expression maps, perhaps?


----------



## lucor

Jordan Gagne @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> I'm wondering how on earth it is possible to manage that giant list of articulations in a template. Will there be any kind of keyswitching patch or script to condense these? I know OT doesn't usually offer this feature but while the articulation list is very impressive, at a certain point it becomes too much to manage. Maybe that's just me.



I'm guessing, they'll do the same thing they did with the Articulations Performer in BWW?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99sLgz1UhaE


----------



## Jordan Gagne

lucor @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> Jordan Gagne @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering how on earth it is possible to manage that giant list of articulations in a template. Will there be any kind of keyswitching patch or script to condense these? I know OT doesn't usually offer this feature but while the articulation list is very impressive, at a certain point it becomes too much to manage. Maybe that's just me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing, they'll do the same thing they did with the Articulations Performer in BWW?!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99sLgz1UhaE
Click to expand...


Even then the Articulation performer is fairly limited -- if I'm not mistaken there are only around 12 articulation slots, and they all have to be sequential in terms of keyswitches (IE your keyswitches all have to be in the same range, such as C0-C1; you can't have some keyswitches at C-1 and another group at C7. Probably not an issue for most people but my personal KS setup has too many switches for the space below C0. I like that Spitfire's keyswitching system allows you to set a KS to ANYTHING you want). Plus it requires one kontakt instrument per instrument, which, while not the end of the world, will take up even more resources in a library that is already pushing the limits of the average template setup.


----------



## EwigWanderer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Congratulations to Hendrik and his team. Price is a bit high for me, but I understand the price point. OT has raised the bar by releasing new innovations like OSR and Sphere.

I also hope that there would be a Lite version for this. I wonder will there be any updates for OSR and Sphere with Teldex ir's or maybe even new samples recorded at Teldex?


----------



## Guy Rowland

Jordan Gagne @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> I'm wondering how on earth it is possible to manage that giant list of articulations in a template. Will there be any kind of keyswitching patch or script to condense these? I know OT doesn't usually offer this feature but while the articulation list is very impressive, at a certain point it becomes too much to manage. Maybe that's just me.



Did no-one watch their legato video? All the legatos are on one live patch for starters (and optional individual ones). It's one of the major selling points.


----------



## Enyak

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

More expensive than I hoped, though glancing at the arts I am not sure there's anything I'd want to be cut out in order to slash the price. So I am not opposed to the price - if the lib has something to offer that nobody else does. Which by its underpinning concept alone it seems to do.

Awaiting the next demos with baited breath then!


----------



## Enyak

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

OK, so this is the sound I want:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3pdhiq2mamwk0 ... eMusic.mp3

(Which is impossible to get this beautiful with samples.)

But post something convincing in that vein and you got a sale. 

(EDIT: And listening to the legato demo and very similar tone again, there should be quite a bit possible. Though "beauty" in an actual phrase with samples is still the hardest thing.)


----------



## ed buller

my only misgiving is the the size of the sections. There is a very nice crisp but small quality to this that i fear when put in a bombastic orchestral setting will sound very thin. And i don't know if that is fixable. But for delicate stuff It sounds like it will be tremendous.The legatos are stunning and the number of RR on the short boys will be very useful.

e


----------



## OT_Tobias

I have used BST quite heavily the last weeks (obviously^^) and had no difficulties managing the number of tracks. I indeed have 1 track per articulation, but as Guy rightly says, the legato patch covers _a lot_ of what you usually need in just 1 patch.

Ed: Don't let the numbers fool you. I think BST sounds pretty large despite the small section size.


----------



## ed buller

OT_Tobias @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> Ed: Don't let the numbers fool you. I think BST sounds pretty large despite the small section size.



Could you post something big sounding ? 

e


----------



## star.keys

I don't want to start a war but for a fair comparison (given the asking high price), can someone who owns all VSL strings libraries help explain why Berlin Strings deserves this kind of money over VSL? I was listening to VSL demos again and the sound and flexibility of VSL Orchestral + Chamber + Appassionata standard editions is just amazing...


----------



## mark812

kawaivpc1 @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> check my old post.. I said I was expecting 1000 euros for this library and it turned out that I was correct.
> I knew they would ask 1000 euros... that's how this library sounded. This is much better than LASS or Cinestrings, Adagio.
> All of these libraries are missing delicate fast legato patches. They can make good mockup for sustain strings but none of the sounds good with fast transition legato phrases. They all start to mess up.
> 
> I think this library truly concludes 'Sampling'... can there be better library than this one? I wonder...



Yeah, until the new one comes out. 

This will be a great library for sure, but much better than the others? Different, sure.

Anyways, it's too rich for my blood, but good luck to OT with sales.


----------



## ed buller

well there is a big difference in price. VSL strings bundle is 4280 euro's Appassionata is 1030...alone....so. Loads more money

i have a feeling this is gonna be a big hit for them. Berlin WW is trully stunning and their new legato scripting feels like a game changer. I don't think the price is unreasonable at all. 

ed


----------



## pavolbrezina

star.keys @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> I don't want to start a war but for a fair comparison (given the asking high price), can someone who owns all VSL strings libraries help explain why Berlin Strings deserves this kind of money over VSL? I was listening to VSL demos again and the sound and flexibility of VSL Orchestral + Chamber + Appassionata standard editions is just amazing...



In fair comparison the sound (as from examples posted here) is not as good as VSL realism, but please dont talk about it in this thread, because you will be marked as fanboy. The price is very high if you imagine what can VSL offer you in complete Strings for the same price. Orchestral Tools is great company and I think they has great future if they create own controller software. VSL started with Kontakt versions too. So lets see...


----------



## Guy Rowland

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Oh the endless price bickering! This is a really good price. Berlin brings entirely new things to the table, the performance legatos alone are groundbreaking. And although its priced higher than some libs, it is (considerably) cheaper than others. It's all a bit grubby in a commercial announcement thread, anyway imo.

Hendrik - I suspect this isn't in the master plan, but I'd be really interested in a Lite version in the fullness of time - 16 bit, one mic mix, same artics. Actually across the whole Berlin range that would be a great option imo, with upgrade paths.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

I will preorder this for sure. It is 130 Euros or something more than I predicted but really... If I had to do a custom session and do this, let alone edit and script this, I would never be done and it would cost a fortune. This is how I view it and of course, when you do need and use all of these tools to make an income, it is a small amount of money to get your hands on something that will add to your palette of sound and give you even more possibilities. Of course I can see why hobbyists would shy away from this, but this is not really who this is aimed at I believe anyway, considering how deep and thoroughly this seems to have been sampled, edited and programmed.

Really looking forward to get my hands on this, and congrats to Hendrik, Tobias and the rest of the team to get this huge undertaking released 8)


----------



## Enyak

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Yeah, not a fan of "This price isn't right, because..."-statements as they don't leave a lot of room to go anywhere.

I'd rather discuss "Well, YOU seem to think this price is right. Now convince / show us why!"


----------



## Vik

ryanstrong @ 18.12.2013 said:


> Yes would love to see more walkthroughs and naked demos before 21.


+1


----------



## pavolbrezina

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



Enyak @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> "Well, YOU seem to think this price is right. Now convince / show us why!"



Yes, this is what I want to know in first place


----------



## Vik

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ 18.12.2013 said:


> *Normal pricing will be: *
> € 839,50 (outside EU)
> € 999.- (Germany + EU incl. VAT)
> 
> *Pre-Order (ends Dec. 21 ´13):*
> € 671,43 (outside EU)
> € 799.- (Germany + EU incl. VAT)
> 
> *Intro (ends Jan. 3 ´14):*
> € 755,46 (outside EU)
> € 899.- (Germany + EU incl. VAT)




If bought now, will future free updates include con sordino/harmonics/sul pont/playable glissandi for all instruments? 
Alternatively, will these articulations come in a paid upgrade? In an additional, paid product? Or not at all?


----------



## ed buller

oh how quickly we forget.....remember the launch price of QLSO....!!

I agree it's a great price and the chance to get it €200 cheaper with a leap of faith seems very reasonable . I've had a great time dealing with this company and can't wait to hear the expansions. 


e


----------



## OT_Tobias

@Vik: BST contains a con sordino script.
Harmonics and Sul Ponticello (and Sul Tasto) will come with BST EXP A.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Tobias: Which exp will (real) sordinos be in?


----------



## DenisT

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

If you are a serious (professional) composer, the price is right IMHO. If you just want to write music for yourself, well, you should probably look for a cheaper option.

This product looks good!  But I'm gonna wait for reviews and a little bit more demos. I'm not sure I need it right now, I have strings librairy I still need to experiment with :wink:


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Simon Ravn @ 18th December said:


> Which exp will (real) sordinos be in?



Actually we´ve to see how close we´ll get to the real thing with our con sordino simulation. Sofar I´m pretty impressed by it. But of course that doesn´t mean that we generally will not do an expansion pack for con sordino. 




> I wonder will there be any updates for OSR and Sphere with Teldex ir's


@EwigWanderer: Sounds like a clever idea  

All the best,
Hendrik


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> Sofar I´m pretty impressed by it.
> All the best,
> Hendrik



Hallo Hendrik ,
first of all congratulations to this release !!!

Concerning system requirements :
a) is this a Kontakt5.3 encoded library or do you also offer prior K5 encoded versions for those users that are still on Mac OS X 10.6.8 , which is not compatible with Kontakt5.3 system requirements ?

b) because this is a more demanding library : did you also have beta-testers that use Logic and VEPRO on Mac ? If so , would you rather recommend a PC system to run BST or is this library save for an intensive use on a Mac system (with SSD's and lots of RAM) ?

Thanks for any info on this

All the best
Gerd


----------



## OT_Tobias

Gerd: While I mainly use a PC, I also extensively tested BST on a Mac with a Crucial M4 SSD in VE Pro. Performance is very good, on par with other libraries on OSX. With a reasonably powerful system you should have no issues.
I personally would get a slave for BST plus BWW (both on 1 slave), but that is just my preferred mode of working. I am a big believer in slavery


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

OT_Tobias @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> Gerd: While I mainly use a PC, I also extensively tested BST on a Mac with a Crucial M4 SSD in VE Pro. Performance is very good, on par with other libraries on OSX. With a reasonably powerful system you should have no issues.
> I personally would get a slave for BST plus BWW (both on 1 slave), but that is just my preferred mode of working. I am a big believer in slavery


Many "Dankeschön" for the quick reply, Tobias .
Yes , i was thinking of a slave machine for this library , too . But I was wondering if can use a Mac with OSX10.6.8 or get a new PC slave for it. That's why I raised the question.

So , it seems it's a "_Kontakt5.3 only_" release which therefore rules out OS X Snow Leopard systems , right ?

Best
Gerd


----------



## williemyers

ed buller @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> oh how quickly we forget.....remember the launch price of QLSO....!!


(a.) and the launch (and current) price of LASS? (a grand)
(b.) and the launch price for Garritan Orchestral Strings? ($1,250)
(c.) and the launch price of the *original* Miroslav Viteous strings, for that matter??!! ($3000-4,000)

The complete 8DIO Adagio strings bundle is on sale for $1099.
The complete Spitfire Sable strings, about $2,200
and, as mentioned above, complete VSL packages run thousands....

I think, to expect a library of the size, complexity and quality of BS to come in at a few hundred is just...amateurish. 

The only thing keeping me from dropping a credit card straight away is that I "invested" in too many of those listed above and the bleeding's got to stop somewhere! 
Now....if Hendrik & co. would decide to offer a "crossgrade" one day!!?? o-[][]-o


----------



## williemyers

OT_Tobias @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> Gerd: While I mainly use a PC, I also extensively tested BST on a Mac with a Crucial M4 SSD in VE Pro. Performance is very good, on par with other libraries on OSX. With a reasonably powerful system you should have no issues.
> I personally would get a slave for BST plus BWW (both on 1 slave), but that is just my preferred mode of working. I am a big believer in slavery


Tobias, this is going a bit off-topic, but could you give a bit more detail on the system you mentioned above? ("a Mac with a Crucial M4 SSD in VE Pro.') Was it a MacPro? How many cores? Was the SSD your sytem drive? or Library drive? or both? And why did you select Crucial over say Samsung?


----------



## star.keys

This has started getting confusing now... Is this the price for Berlin Strings only, or are we talking about COMPLETE Berlin series including all expansions...


----------



## ed buller

just berlin strings

e


----------



## germancomponist

williemyers @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> ed buller @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh how quickly we forget.....remember the launch price of QLSO....!!
> 
> 
> 
> (a.) and the launch (and current) price of LASS? (a grand)
> (b.) and the launch price for Garritan Orchestral Strings? ($1,250)
> (c.) and the launch price of the *original* Miroslav Viteous strings, for that matter??!! ($3000-4,000)
> 
> The complete 8DIO Adagio strings bundle is on sale for $1099.
> The complete Spitfire Sable strings, about $2,200
> and, as mentioned above, complete VSL packages run thousands....
Click to expand...

And EW-Hollywood Strings Diamant Edition is on sale for 299,50 €!


----------



## OT_Tobias

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Sure thing:
MacPro Late 2008 2*2.8 Ghz Quad (so 8 cores in total), OS 10.8
26 GB Ram
Regular 7200rmp drive for the system, Crucial M4 for samples.
I chose Crucial because a local PC retailer had a sale  No deeper hidden significance behind the decision.

PS: Just for clarification. This is NOT my regular production system. And this is most definitely NOT the official system requirements for Berlin Strings - just in any case someone might think that^^


----------



## star.keys

germancomponist @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> williemyers @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ed buller @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh how quickly we forget.....remember the launch price of QLSO....!!
> 
> 
> 
> (a.) and the launch (and current) price of LASS? (a grand)
> (b.) and the launch price for Garritan Orchestral Strings? ($1,250)
> (c.) and the launch price of the *original* Miroslav Viteous strings, for that matter??!! ($3000-4,000)
> 
> The complete 8DIO Adagio strings bundle is on sale for $1099.
> The complete Spitfire Sable strings, about $2,200
> and, as mentioned above, complete VSL packages run thousands....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And EW-Hollywood Strings Diamant Edition is on sale for 299,50 €!
Click to expand...


+1 
Let's ignore their launch price of 1300, there was nothing like that when they launched it but as far as current situation is concerned, EW Hollywood Strings is an absolute no-brainer.

I still look forward to buying BS, subject to a demonstration of value using some naked demos (ideally Cinesamples or 8Dio style patch walkthroughs) :|


----------



## DocMidi657

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Hi,

Asking respectfully, can someone tell me what the difference is between Orchestral Tools Adaptive Legato that changes between articulations and VSL's speed Control that changes between articulations?

Thanks,
Dave


----------



## williemyers

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



OT_Tobias @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> Sure thing:
> MacPro Late 2008 2*2.8 Ghz Quad (so 8 cores in total), OS 10.8
> 26 GB Ram
> Regular 7200rmp drive for the system, Crucial M4 for samples.
> I chose Crucial because a local PC retailer had a sale  No deeper hidden significance behind the decision.
> 
> PS: Just for clarification. This is NOT my regular production system. And this is most definitely NOT the official system requirements for Berlin Strings - just in any case someone might think that^^


hey ,many thanks for that! I'm at one of those extremely uncomfortable points where I'm having to take a long, hard look at my entire system (same as you described above, excepting only 16GB RAM) and - before I can spring for BST - factor in the cost of an entire re-do. I've never done slaves before, but now may be the time! Thanks again....


----------



## handz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



germancomponist @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> kawaivpc1 @ Tue Dec 17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> wow... this sounds 100% real. I can't tell if this is fake or real... seriously.
> If someone told me this was real one, I would believe it.
> This is REAL!!!
> Congrats guys! I'm saving up money for this one.. I will buy it ASAP o/~ o/~ o/~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> When did the last time listened to a concert by a real orchestra?
Click to expand...


+100 

im affraid that people who listen mainly to samples and Zimmer like stuff losing connection with how real orchestral music sounds


----------



## Simon Ravn

Disregard.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



handz @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> germancomponist @ Tue Dec 17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kawaivpc1 @ Tue Dec 17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> wow... this sounds 100% real. I can't tell if this is fake or real... seriously.
> If someone told me this was real one, I would believe it.
> This is REAL!!!
> Congrats guys! I'm saving up money for this one.. I will buy it ASAP o/~ o/~ o/~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> When did the last time listened to a concert by a real orchestra?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> +100
> 
> im affraid that people who listen mainly to samples and Zimmer like stuff losing connection with how real orchestral music sounds
Click to expand...


Agree - it didn't sound real at all, but it's an almost impossible piece to do with samples. Not something I would try with any samples at least 

But I don't think there is any connection to "Zimmer stuff" - most of his stuff is live recorded orchestra + samples, and certainly something like the "end theme" to "The DaVinci Code" couldn't be achieved perfectly with samples either, although it could probably come closer due to the slower nature of the music. The notion that everything Zimmer is just someone playing a keyboard is kinda absurd. And the stuff that does use synths+samples heavily is in such a different universe that it doesn't make any sense to compared it to traditional orchestral music.


----------



## EastWest Lurker

pavolbrezina @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> In fair comparison the sound (as from examples posted here) is not as good as VSL realism, but please dont talk about it in this thread, because you will be marked as fanboy.



Not if you say it once in the thread, but if you say it multiple times, yes you will be rightfully marked as a fanboy.

Congrats guys on your new release!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



ryanstrong @ 18th December said:


> If you just have say the TREE mics enabled on the legato patches how much is loaded into ram?



I just made a screenshot of the legato patch with tree only.
I set the sample buffer size down to 30KB. If you have a SSD this really helps to save more ram.

Anyway, I would like to recommend to use the Tree only for composing and before you start to do the final mix you can render all the other mics. This way the ram space is much less used and it shouldn´t be a big problem.


----------



## Walid F.

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



Simon Ravn @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> handz @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> germancomponist @ Tue Dec 17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kawaivpc1 @ Tue Dec 17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> wow... this sounds 100% real. I can't tell if this is fake or real... seriously.
> If someone told me this was real one, I would believe it.
> This is REAL!!!
> Congrats guys! I'm saving up money for this one.. I will buy it ASAP o/~ o/~ o/~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> When did the last time listened to a concert by a real orchestra?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> +100
> 
> im affraid that people who listen mainly to samples and Zimmer like stuff losing connection with how real orchestral music sounds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - it didn't sound real at all
Click to expand...


Come on, that's a bit harsh to put it. It does sound quite real, but of course not real like you would hear in a concert. I agree that people really are starting to lose grasp over how real orchestras sound (going to concerts really is amazing and an eye opener for people who get too comfy with their computers), but this library does sound quite fantastic and has a "real" tone and feel over it. Better than most libraries from what I can hear in the demos.

A bit pricy I can agree on too. Guess I'll pass on this one for now, and wait for more demos and reviews. Too bad on missing the pre-order deal though.. !

W.


----------



## pavolbrezina

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



Walid F. @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> handz @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> germancomponist @ Tue Dec 17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kawaivpc1 @ Tue Dec 17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> wow... this sounds 100% real. I can't tell if this is fake or real... seriously.
> If someone told me this was real one, I would believe it.
> This is REAL!!!
> Congrats guys! I'm saving up money for this one.. I will buy it ASAP o/~ o/~ o/~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> When did the last time listened to a concert by a real orchestra?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> +100
> 
> im affraid that people who listen mainly to samples and Zimmer like stuff losing connection with how real orchestral music sounds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agree - it didn't sound real at all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Come on, that's a bit harsh to put it. It does sound quite real, but of course not real like you would hear in a concert. I agree that people really are starting to lose grasp over how real orchestras sound (going to concerts really is amazing and an eye opener for people who get too comfy with their computers), but this library does sound quite fantastic and has a "real" tone and feel over it. Better than most libraries from what I can hear in the demos.
> 
> A bit pricy I can agree on too. Guess I'll pass on this one for now, and wait for more demos and reviews. Too bad on missing the pre-order deal though.. !
> 
> W.
Click to expand...


for everyone considering this or other orchestral library to sound real, I suggest to buy also one year ticket here www.digitalconcerthall.com :wink:


----------



## Walid F.

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



pavolbrezina @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> for everyone considering this or other orchestral library to sound real, I suggest to buy also one year ticket here www.digitalconcerthall.com :wink:



What's up with all this black and white comparisons between real and not real? Welcome to the grayscale guys: reality. :D Can't a library sound "quite real" or "real enough to be satisfying"?


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



Walid F. @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> pavolbrezina @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> for everyone considering this or other orchestral library to sound real, I suggest to buy also one year ticket here www.digitalconcerthall.com :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's up with all this black and white comparisons between real and not real? Welcome to the grayscale guys: reality. :D Can't a library sound "quite real" or "real enough to be satisfying"?
Click to expand...


The original poster said something along the lines that "this sounds completely real! I couldn't tell the difference!" - and I totally have to disagree. I could instantly tell that this was sampled.

And btw, I preordered. Very excited about this library!


----------



## kawaivpc1

Stop fighting over my comment guys!


----------



## Hannes_F

The aim is not to mimic a concert but to mimic a studio recording. That is a big difference.

I'm with Simon here, could always tell it is samples but it sounds as if it is a very nice product.


----------



## williemyers

Hannes_F @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> The aim is not to mimic a concert but to mimic a studio recording. That is a big difference.


make that a *HUGE* difference!


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

I know this merely speculation but does anyone think this could run ok on a 7200 RPM drive with 16 of RAM?


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



ETMuz @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> I know this merely speculation but does anyone think this could run ok on a 7200 RPM drive with 16 of RAM?



Depends on how much of it you are loading and how much of it you want to play at the same time - your bottleneck for the latter will be the hard drive - get an SSD!


----------



## kawaivpc1

or get a new motherboard and more RAM


----------



## AC986

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



Simon Ravn @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> Walid F. @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pavolbrezina @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> for everyone considering this or other orchestral library to sound real, I suggest to buy also one year ticket here www.digitalconcerthall.com :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's up with all this black and white comparisons between real and not real? Welcome to the grayscale guys: reality. :D Can't a library sound "quite real" or "real enough to be satisfying"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The original poster said something along the lines that "this sounds completely real! I couldn't tell the difference!" - and I totally have to disagree. I could instantly tell that this was sampled.
Click to expand...


I will never understand WHY anyone would do a classical work sample library mock up. It's suicide.

If you're going to do mockups with sample libraries then do a mockup that definitely isn't classical. It's a pointless, fruitless exercise in navel gazing.

Do film music instead.


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Motherboard is out of the question for me...and unfortunately so is a SSD. I'm going to have to drain my personal funds just to get this library(in pre-order pricing). 

I have 1 SSD with HWS/HWB on it. One 2TB 7200 HD for tons on VI's, and one 2TB drive for storage. I'm in a pickle with where to put this Library. I hoped it could work on my 2TB VI HD. I may be too optimistic. I just believe that this library in Kontakt may work better than PLAY has lately(Since I updated from snow Leopard to ML).


----------



## kawaivpc1

ETMuz, check this out

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822178379

This is a brand new 'Hybrid Drive'. It works as fast as SSD and as cheap as normal HDDs...
It's 4 times faster than normal HDD and price is about the same. 4TB is only 220 dollars. I'm going to grab 3 of those soon... why not consider this one instead of more expensive SSD


----------



## aaronnt1

From what I understand those hybrid drives are not as fast as SSD's - they only cache a certain amount of data so that certain programs and boot times are much quicker. I don't think there will be much difference if any over normal 7200 drives when it comes to heavy sample streaming projects. Anyway, best do your research first.


----------



## Simon Ravn

kawaivpc1 @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> ETMuz, check this out
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822178379
> 
> This is a brand new 'Hybrid Drive'. It works as fast as SSD and as cheap as normal HDDs...
> It's 4 times faster than normal HDD and price is about the same. 4TB is only 220 dollars. I'm going to grab 3 of those soon... why not consider this one instead of more expensive SSD



I would not recommend this for sample streaming. A hybrid drive isn't a piece of magic. What it does it it puts often used files/data on the SSD part to speed up loading of that. In other words: It will not help you much streaming 100 GB's of samples, when the drive only has 8GB of SSD storage. It would be great if it worked, but all logic says it won't.

This will be fine as a drive to hold your OS and applications but not much else.


----------



## quantum7

aaronnt1 @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> From what I understand those hybrid drives are not as fast as SSD's - they only cache a certain amount of data so that certain programs and boot times are much quicker. I don't think there will be much difference if any over normal 7200 drives when it comes to heavy sample streaming projects. Anyway, best do your research first.



I've also read the same information regarding that and it does make sense. SSD's are truly the only way to go for streaming.


----------



## muk

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [TREPAK MOCKUP ADDED]*



adriancook @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> I will never understand WHY anyone would do a classical work sample library mock up. It's suicide.
> 
> [...]
> 
> It's a pointless, fruitless exercise in navel gazing.



You know, some of us do actually like to write in a more classical style themselves. Mockups of classical pieces can help to judge how well a certain library may fare for this style.
Plus, in my opinion there's nothing wrong with showing how far you can push a product until it reaches it's limits. So bring on those ultra hard classical demos


----------



## eric aron

not pointless, useful. classical orchestral music has reached the ultimate in expression, and thus using it for demoing a sample library is an honest and clear way to show its real potential. i can understand why so many developers are frightened to do it, because yes it will instantly suicide their product. its so much more easy to use layers of make up and mockup huge "hollywood" sound with tons of fx, reverb and percs.


----------



## williemyers

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



ETMuz @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> I know this merely speculation but does anyone think this could run ok on a 7200 RPM drive with 16 of RAM?





Simon Ravn @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> get an SSD!





kawaivpc1 @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> or get a new motherboard and more RAM


in other words.....get a new computer!!!


----------



## eschroder

I wonder why the pre-order period has to be so short? :/


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Hi,

Would love to hear More demos of Berlin Strings (Please)  

I'm very interested in pre-ordering it to take advantage of the lower price, which expires on Dec. 21st. 

Planning to get a new PC early next year. So, perfect timing to get _Berlin Strings_ installed on the new system. My current 6 year old PC has served me very well. but its time to go with an SSD based PC, more RAM, more Cores, etc. 

Looking forward to enjoy working with Berlin Strings o/~ 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



> eschroder
> I wonder why the pre-order period has to be so short? :/


So that I can get my hands on this very quickly! 
Honestly, it is like with their BWW release: there are two different phases of discount, only that the preorder phase is a little short this time. I guess they couldn't update their website earlier!? Anyway, it is a PREoder rewarding and people get rewarded for having a little more faith in the company than others. If you do not have that kind of faith, you can still have half of the saving by buying after the 21st of December ...


----------



## Mr. Anxiety

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

I would +1 on the pre-order period being so short. This coming Sat., 5 days before Christmas, with everyone spending money on family gifts and all other things without much of a budget plan, usually. To ask us to earmark another $1k at this time, regardless of how great the price is, is a tough request IMO.

Mr A


----------



## rJames

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Did you see the RAM use on the legato violins? over 4g for just the violins.

It just became critical to find a new computer.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



rJames @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> Did you see the RAM use on the legato violins? over 4g for just the violins.
> 
> It just became critical to find a new computer.



Depends on the preload buffer, how many mics you want to use and such.... there were probably quite a few mics loaded?


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



Simon Ravn @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> rJames @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you see the RAM use on the legato violins? over 4g for just the violins.
> 
> It just became critical to find a new computer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the preload buffer, how many mics you want to use and such.... there were probably quite a few mics loaded?
Click to expand...



Agreed. Hendrik said his buffer was set at default 64K (if on SSD - set to 12K and only use the Tree to 'write') - me thinks it will be less than 1 gb.


----------



## ETMuz

kawaivpc1 @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> ETMuz, check this out
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822178379
> 
> This is a brand new 'Hybrid Drive'. It works as fast as SSD and as cheap as normal HDDs...
> It's 4 times faster than normal HDD and price is about the same. 4TB is only 220 dollars. I'm going to grab 3 of those soon... why not consider this one instead of more expensive SSD



Thx. I'll research it.


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

I don't see anything on the site - will this be downloadable?


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



feck @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> I don't see anything on the site - will this be downloadable?



I would guess : Yes 

Since all of their libraries are downloadable. But I also saw this http://www.orchestraltools.com/ssd_service/hd_ssd_service.php

So, maybe they will have an SSD option too for Berlin Strings.


----------



## eschroder

I'm a little worried for OT. I feel that they would gain more sales by extending the pre-order due to lack of demos and walk throughs of all the features. I own several products of there's, so trust isn't an issue. I just want them to succeed.


----------



## gpax

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



FriFlo @ Wed Dec 18 said:


> eschroder
> I wonder why the pre-order period has to be so short? :/
> 
> 
> 
> So that I can get my hands on this very quickly!
> Honestly, it is like with their BWW release: there are two different phases of discount, only that the preorder phase is a little short this time. I guess they couldn't update their website earlier!? Anyway, it is a PREoder rewarding and people get rewarded for having a little more faith in the company than others. If you do not have that kind of faith, you can still have half of the saving by buying after the 21st of December ...
Click to expand...


Faith pricing. Half-faith pricing. Then agnostic pricing, lol.


----------



## Richard Bowling

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



gpax @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> FriFlo @ Wed Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eschroder
> I wonder why the pre-order period has to be so short? :/
> 
> 
> 
> So that I can get my hands on this very quickly!
> Honestly, it is like with their BWW release: there are two different phases of discount, only that the preorder phase is a little short this time. I guess they couldn't update their website earlier!? Anyway, it is a PREoder rewarding and people get rewarded for having a little more faith in the company than others. If you do not have that kind of faith, you can still have half of the saving by buying after the 21st of December ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Faith pricing. Half-faith pricing. Then agnostic pricing, lol.
Click to expand...



funny... help Thou mine unbelief...

with a demo maybe?


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

At least a demo of the ostinato legato, and a strings-only audio demo would be a good way of helping people decide before preorder-1 ends.


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Took the plunge and pre-ordered. US conversion rate came out to just about $940. Seeing how playable this is, and hearing the demos, I am PSYCHED to download and get working with them.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*

Hey Guys,

just uploaded the next screencast chapter III about the playable glissandi and the dynamic patches of Berlin Strings.
The playable glissando patch is really something special where we tried to work with samples on a completely new level of flexibility.
It´s possible to play them in different tempos, lengths and it reacts absolutely agile.
Beside that we decided to capture true dynamic expressions as I don´t think you can create that in a similar expressive and convincing way with Xfade patches. I think the video speaks for itself on that.



All the best,

Hendrik and the OT-Team


----------



## eschroder

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

okay, that was cool! Show me more more more =]


----------



## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Even though I won't be able to get in on the preorder.... these strings WILL be mine! This library is (IMO), truely a 'nextgen' work of art.


----------



## eschroder

Id really like to find out more about the ostinato arp patches and the difference between trills and hook trills.

Also, the repetition 16ths and triplets. Would love a video or something on all of this


----------



## SF_Guy

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Hendrik, is the playable glissandi only on the 1st violins?


----------



## Diffusor

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> just uploaded the next screencast chapter III about the playable glissandi and the dynamic patches of Berlin Strings.
> The playable glissando patch is really something special where we tried to work with samples on a completely new level of flexibility.
> It´s possible to play them in different tempos, lengths and it reacts absolutely agile.
> Beside that we decided to capture true dynamic expressions as I don´t think you can create that in a similar expressive and convincing way with Xfade patches. I think the video speaks for itself on that.
> 
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Hendrik and the OT-Team




Farkin' awesome.


----------



## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



SF_Guy @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> Hendrik, is the playable glissandi only on the 1st violins?



I'm not Hendrik, but I would say 'yes'..., according to the posted articulations list. I think it's sort of a sneak peak into what they've got cooking for the expansions.


----------



## rJames

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



feck @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> Took the plunge and pre-ordered. US conversion rate came out to just about $940. Seeing how playable this is, and hearing the demos, I am PSYCHED to download and get working with them.



Every time I do the conversion 799 Euros comes out to about $1080. Maybe the conversion rate is different in your state.

Is that what is was on your invoice? Like after it was calculated at Orchestral Tools or Paypal?


----------



## Blakus

Here are the prices Hendrik listed. I believe you are including the VAT.

Normal pricing will be: 
€ 839,50 (outside EU) 
€ 999.- (Germany + EU incl. VAT) 

Pre-Order (ends Dec. 21 ´13): 
€ 671,43 (outside EU) 
€ 799.- (Germany + EU incl. VAT) 

Intro (ends Jan. 3 ´14): 
€ 755,46 (outside EU) 
€ 899.- (Germany + EU incl. VAT)


----------



## Dr.Quest

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



rJames @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> feck @ Thu Dec 19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took the plunge and pre-ordered. US conversion rate came out to just about $940. Seeing how playable this is, and hearing the demos, I am PSYCHED to download and get working with them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every time I do the conversion 799 Euros comes out to about $1080. Maybe the conversion rate is different in your state.
> 
> Is that what is was on your invoice? Like after it was calculated at Orchestral Tools or Paypal?
Click to expand...


Ron,
Isn't it 671.43 in the states? 799 is Europe.
J


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



rJames @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> feck @ Thu Dec 19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took the plunge and pre-ordered. US conversion rate came out to just about $940. Seeing how playable this is, and hearing the demos, I am PSYCHED to download and get working with them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every time I do the conversion 799 Euros comes out to about $1080. Maybe the conversion rate is different in your state.
> 
> Is that what is was on your invoice? Like after it was calculated at Orchestral Tools or Paypal?
Click to expand...


Conversion rates should not vary from state to state. They may vary from bank to bank slightly, but not state to state.

799 Euros comes out to 1,089.37 USD, as of this moment. Far from 671,43 USD, However, that 671,43 USD does not include VAT, where as the 799 Euros does (according to Hendricks' post). That makes the price in Euros that needs to be converted to USD 640. 640 Euros comes out to 872.581 USD - proving that I have absolutely no idea how Hendrick came up with the USD figure. :?

--edit--- ah.. I screwed up. :roll: It's not 671,43 USD - it's 671,43 Euros. Therefore, the conversion makes sense.


----------



## quantum7

For USA orders it is €671.43, which equals $915.47


----------



## Audio

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Would be nice if there was a set USD price a la projectSam. Wouldn't mind seeing that from all the over yonders.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

To clarify this: If you´re living outside from the EU (e.g. USA or Japan...) you don´t have to pay VAT. You only have to pay the lower price. (671,43 Euro)

Same thing for everybody who lives in the EU (but not in Germany) with a valid EU VAT nr. (if you have a company, you probably have this nr!). After typing in this EU VAT nr., the VAT will be discounted. You only have to pay the lower price. (671,43 Euro)

Best, Hendrik


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

My order page lists the grand total (EU, inc vat) as €671.43.

Does the vat get added in the Paypal page? Because 'grand total' implies that's the price I will be charged.

Could we also perhaps hear an example of the ostinato patch and just one demo using the strings only before the first preorder period ends?


----------



## Dan Mott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Naked demo before release please.


----------



## feck

quantum7 @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> For USA orders it is €671.43, which equals $915.47


The PayPal page showed $940something - I paid by CC which shouldn't add fees on my end, but that is what the confirm-payment page showed.


----------



## OT_Tobias

The USD price depends on Paypal exchange rates which vary greatly and do not necessarily need to have anything to do with the current official exchange rate


----------



## korgscrew

The paypal exchange rate has its pros and cons.

When I ordered Adagio it was nearly £90 cheaper than the week before!


----------



## snattack

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

I just pre-ordered and selected my cards exchange rate, about $50 cheaper.


----------



## star.keys

Great dynamics, more more and more demos please 

As posted in the other thread, I have just pre-ordered and will hold my download until satisfactory assessment of demos. As per the cancellation policy, I am entitled to cancel the order for refund within 14 days, provided the download hasn't commenced (and few other terms related to business merchant / self employed buyers etc)..

However no regret if I have misinterpreted the returns policy in any way 

I look forward to the demos...


----------



## Rv5

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

That last screencast, recorded dynamics and glissandi runs... I'm starting to feel that what will be achievable with the whole Orchestral Tools set-up will be rather spectacular! Exciting!


----------



## eschroder

star.keys Where is the information on canceling an order if one were to buy but not download?

Thanks


----------



## rJames

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER SPECIAL STARTED]*



rJames @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> Maybe the conversion rate is different in your state. I was starting to worry that some of the southern states had succeeded in seceding. (say that 5 times in a row)



That part was a joke... I just hadn't dug far enough to see the non VAT rate.


----------



## rJames

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Is there an Articulation Switcher with this lib?


----------



## FriFlo

The glissando thing is pretty cool, but I would rather like to control it with a ribbon controller. Would it be possible to make that script react to pitchbend in high resolution (14 bit)? Maybe in combination with a note on to define the starting pitch?!


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



SF_Guy @ Thu Dec 19 said:


> Hendrik, is the playable glissandi only on the 1st violins?


Yes, it is. But fortunately this is something they want to enhance for the SFX expansion. I would really love to get an enhanced version of this for all string groups, but, as I just said: not via keyboard! Ribbon, iPad controller would be way cooler with this to gain better control.


----------



## FriFlo

@Hendrik: for the SFX expansion this would be cool:
Glissando sul pont, tremolo, close to the frog and normal and all possible combinations (including morphing in between those)! :-D


----------



## aaronnt1

The tone of this library is gorgeous and the articulation list looks great. My only bugbear is that I think minor and major 3rd trills and maybe even 4ths, should be standard in new string libraries, especially ones at this price point. I know OT has the trill orchestrator in Symhonic Sphere but I can't imagine it would blend too well with the smaller section sizes of BS? Anyway, I love the sound of these smaller sections, I love the definition. Great work.

I hope the special bows expansions will be very comprehensive in size and detail with the same ranges as the core BS library.


----------



## star.keys

eschroder @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> star.keys Where is the information on canceling an order if one were to buy but not download?
> 
> Thanks



Hi eschroder, if I remember (what I read during the purchase process) correctly, the right to return with 14 days would end if the seal of the product is opened. I'd suggest please check with OT for peace of mind, I guess these things must be somewhere on their website.. I didn't read the fine print but have checked enough T&Cs that matter...

You will get an opportunity to read all T&Cs (it is mandatory to agree T&Cs on order the submission form) before you click final payment button anyway..


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



rJames @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> Is there an Articulation Switcher with this lib?




Hoping for this. VERY useful tool for BWW.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

I´ve good and not so good news for you guys.

Yesterday we detected a pretty huge bug with how Kontakt handles patches which were created with K5.2 and re-saved with K5.3.
It is a bug which was not visible on the first view. I believe that we´re not the only developer who has problems with that. The only workaround is to re-create all patches completely new and to copy all the groups from the original patches into them.
As we have many patches for Berlin Strings it is a lot of work and that´s why everything comes a bit delayed (including demos and screencasts). We also decided to deliver the two Ostinato Legato patches with an update in January. We planned more time to tweak them and we lost this time with that patch workaround. But I´m optimistic that we are able to release tomorrow.
With the recording sessions of "Special Bows I" we also recorded the playable glissandi for Violas and Celli, because we just were amazed about how they turned out. We decided to include them into Berlin Strings main for free in an update as a compensation for the delayed Ostinato Legato patches. Also we´ll extend the first pre-order period until monday because of that.

@star.keys: The 14 day return right is for private orders only. Anyway to be fair, that´s not the idea behind the pre-order as this special is meant to customers who decide their buy decision based on what is there and the trust in our project.

All the best,

Hendrik


----------



## rJames

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Articulation switcher?


----------



## ed buller

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



rJames @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> Articulation switcher?



yes be good to know...like the most excellent one in BWW ?

e


----------



## star.keys

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> The 14 day return right is for private orders only. Anyway to be fair, that´s not the idea behind the pre-order as this special is meant to customers who decide their buy decision based on what is there and the trust in our project.



Sounds fair as a selling approach.. and to be fair from buyer's perspective, I haven't bought anything from OT in the past that forms a basis to the desired trust yet (although I do get a sense of it from others). Therefore as a private buyer, I look forward to exercise the necessary caveats that protect my investment. Putting things in the right perspective, I am near-confident that I have made the right decision to block my money upfront, and that's huge element of trust if you see where I am coming from..

All the very best for delivery of a high quality product tomorrow..


----------



## Malo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> With the recording sessions of "Special Bows I" we also recorded the playable glissandi for Violas and Celli, because we just were amazed about how they turned out. We decided to include them into Berlin Strings main for free in an update as a compensation for the delayed Ostinato Legato patches.


 o=?

That is a really nice compensation! Thank you, Hendrik! Those glissandi were impressive!

I am so happy I preordered this! I hit the buy button after hearing the dynamic patches in the latest screencast. The nice vibrato I miss in many string libraries seems to be present here. I hope the vibrato I heard are in every sustain/legato patch as well. Very promising!


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Hello Hendrik,

Thanks for moving the Pre-Order date to Monday. (Wise decision)  

Hopefully you will be able to post more audio/video demos over the weekend. This will be super helpful to make me go forward with Pre-Ordering on Monday. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## rJames

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

[bump]

Articulation switcher?


----------



## ed buller

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



rJames @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> [bump]
> 
> Articulation switcher?



re bump


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

[bump]

no :D


----------



## rJames

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> [bump]
> 
> no :D



Smiley face is totally out of place. How about a :twisted: or a :( 

Unless you are about to tell us how to put all our violins 1 on one track.

Anyone?


----------



## rJames

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> [bump]
> 
> no :D



Seriously Hendrik. Do you have a script that will allow us to load up one Kontakt instance with all the viol patches we need and switch them so that we can write all on one line?

Can you suggest such a script.

I guess you don't know how important this is by your glib response.

Ron


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



rJames @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Dec 20 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [bump]
> 
> no :D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you don't know how important this is by your glib response.
> 
> Ron
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I don't see how a single emoticon qualifies his response as glib. Your question is valid, but I might suggest relaxing a bit until Hendrik answers in detail.


----------



## Jordan Gagne

No articulation switcher? Bleh. Not that I was going to be able to afford this anyway but looks like Mural will be more suited to my workflow preference of keyswitching.


----------



## Malo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



rJames @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Dec 20 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [bump]
> 
> no :D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously Hendrik. Do you have a script that will allow us to load up one Kontakt instance with all the viol patches we need and switch them so that we can write all on one line?
> 
> Can you suggest such a script.
> 
> I guess you don't know how important this is by your glib response.
> 
> Ron
Click to expand...


I'm not Hendrik, but after I got Mind Control by Orange Tree Samples I stopped worrying about how to combine Kontakt patches into one line. Have you checked this out? It's brilliant!

http://www.orangetreesamples.com/mind-control


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

@ Malo,

Thanks for the info. regarding _Mind Control by Orange Tree Samples_

Could be very useful to get this. I will check their user manual to get a better understanding of how it works. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## pavolbrezina

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> [bump]
> 
> no :D



why?


----------



## Diffusor

Jordan Gagne @ Fri Dec 20 said:


> No articulation switcher? Bleh. Not that I was going to be able to afford this anyway but looks like Mural will be more suited to my workflow preference of keyswitching.



This is where the brilliance of Steinberg's VST Expression comes in handy.


----------



## feck

Diffusor @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> Jordan Gagne @ Fri Dec 20 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No articulation switcher? Bleh. Not that I was going to be able to afford this anyway but looks like Mural will be more suited to my workflow preference of keyswitching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is where the brilliance of Steinberg's VST Expression comes in handy.
Click to expand...

+1


----------



## The Darris

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Cubase's Expression mapping system will work nicely for this but you are still kinda screwed with other DAWs that don't have a similar setup (I don't think any other does). It would be great if they offered a solution, one more similar to the ARC script in LASS. I would really like to utilize the other bays of Kontakt to reduce my Kontakt instance and ram footprint. I would honestly pay someone for a script that can do this for any library.


----------



## Sid Francis

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



muziksculp @ Fri 20 Dec said:


> Hello Hendrik,
> 
> Thanks for moving the Pre-Order date to Monday. (Wise decision)
> 
> Hopefully you will be able to post more audio/video demos over the weekend. This will be super helpful to make me go forward with Pre-Ordering on Monday.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Same for me. I HAVE to hear more to fork out such an amount of money. I would be very much interested in the sound of the strings in the FIRST half of your nice yellow dynamics indicator. Put it to 9 o´clock and show some calm and soothing cello notes. Let the violas "scratch" a bit. Show the lower violins in their most intimate version. The higher dynamics sound very good, absolutly not harsh or shrill like in (really ) many other libs ("don´t go over 50% with the mod wheel" remember? ) ) But the lower half is much more interesting for me since it might be the "one step bigger than Sable" Sound that I am missing.


----------



## Saxer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

if you have lass you can use the arc for any library.


----------



## The Darris

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



Saxer @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> if you have lass you can use the arc for any library.



Doesn't ARC only recognize LASS's naming system though? Also, I don't want to fork over $999 for a library just for the script. I am happy with my strings and just want a commercial script with similar features. Seems pretty reasonable to me.


----------



## Diffusor

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



The Darris @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> Cubase's Expression mapping system will work nicely for this but you are still kinda screwed with other DAWs that don't have a similar setup (I don't think any other does). It would be great if they offered a solution, one more similar to the ARC script in LASS. I would really like to utilize the other bays of Kontakt to reduce my Kontakt instance and ram footprint. I would honestly pay someone for a script that can do this for any library.



Isn't ARC kind of like Orange Tree Mind Control?


----------



## The Darris

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



Diffusor @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> Isn't ARC kind of like Orange Tree Mind Control?



I think it is similar, I sent Greg an email asking about it because I just stumbled upon it tonight. My concern is whether or not you can use multiple Instrument Banks versus just the one.


----------



## Vik

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



Sid Francis @ 21.12.2013 said:


> Same for me. I HAVE to hear more to fork out such an amount of money.


Yes, and announcing that the the product can be ordered for a better price before more info/examples are available makes some of us wonder why they don't provide full info with enough examples before these offers expire.


----------



## star.keys

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



Vik @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> Sid Francis @ 21.12.2013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same for me. I HAVE to hear more to fork out such an amount of money.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and announcing that the the product can be ordered for a better price before more info/examples are available makes some of us wonder why they don't provide full info with enough examples before these offers expire.
Click to expand...


They are not ready yet as Hendrik mentioned, which has been quite evident. The good thing is, they seem to have learnt from EW and extended the pre-order pricing date :lol: 

I just hope they deliver a high quality product today without a need for a "planned" bug fix version at a later date...


----------



## Malo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



Vik @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> Sid Francis @ 21.12.2013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same for me. I HAVE to hear more to fork out such an amount of money.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and announcing that the the product can be ordered for a better price before more info/examples are available makes some of us wonder why they don't provide full info with enough examples before these offers expire.
Click to expand...

I think you have misunderstood the pricing model. The normal price (and the intro price) is not a punishment for those buying later. It is the NORMAL price. The pre-order price is a reward for those who are willing to pay upfront based on the demoes and info at hand. There is no conspiracy here. 
o-[][]-o


----------



## AC986

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

How much is it?


----------



## OT_Tobias

BST is 799€ pre-order, Adrian.
After Monday it will be 899€ and in January will go to normal price 999€


----------



## AC986

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Thanks Tobias.

£804 including VAT. Sounds nice but too big a stretch for me this time.


----------



## OT_Tobias

No Adrian, the 799€ already includes VAT, should be about 670 GBP!


----------



## ed buller

I really really really want to buy this library....but i don't see how i'm going to fit it into my workflow without multi's. I somewhat surprised that after the really excellent multiplayer that came with BWW this has none. Is this something that will come later ?

ed


----------



## FriFlo

ed buller @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> I really really really want to buy this library....but i don't see how i'm going to fit it into my workflow without multi's. I somewhat surprised that after the really excellent multiplayer that came with BWW this has none. Is this something that will come later ?
> 
> ed


Guys! This is a 1.0 release and OT has really shown in the past, that they are dedicated to polishing their products! Some of their updates (all free) even included vast amounts of new sample material. This is one of the few brands, where you can really have some faith ...
The articulation performer of BWW was also not available with v.1.0 but came later. With this release they already have the most advanced scripting I have ever seen so far built in within the patches. So, please give them a break to sort things out and I am very sure they will bring all the things mentioned missing later.
By the way, I a m in no regards affiliated with OT! I just speak out of my customer experience from OSR, Orchestral Sphere and BWW, which I purchased and have been very graciously updated and improved by OT. No fanboyism here: As soon as They screw it, I will be the first to complain!  But until now: one of the best out there! By the way! They also don't get mad at their customers despite all the turmoil of a thread like this! Maybe, SF could learn from that, since this is kind their only weak point ...


----------



## Eric

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Could anyone tell me if the bow attack strength triggered by velocity occurs on all patches, or only on the legato patch? Thanks!

<edit> never mind my question, I see now the answer is yes... I should've watched the shorts video more closely before posting.


----------



## ed buller

FriFlo @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> [
> The articulation performer of BWW was also not available with v.1.0 but came later. With this release they already have the most advanced scripting I have ever seen so



This I did not know....apologies . I am a big admirer of their products . I does sound amazing especially the legatos...

e


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Hey Guys,

We decided to not include an articulation switcher in BST for the following reasons:
For the Adaptive Legato we already included many articulations into one patch, which is playable in a very intuitive way.
There are the slurred legatos, all the vibrato expressions, the playable runs, the agile legato, the different attacks and the portamento legato. All in one patch! That´s something that makes absolutely sense to me.
But we here at OT are not that convinced with keyswitching between ALL the articulations. One of the points is that the word Key-Switch says already what it is. You decide (switch) between one or another thing. In my work with samples I experienced that in several situations it makes more sense to "blend" or to layer the articulations over each other to create additional shades or articulations. Especially if you work with short notes. That does´t mean that we don´t like keyswitches at all. Sometimes it´s wise to switch instead of blending something (mode switching e.g.). Other points that came up to me are things like keyswitches change with transposing, keyswitches are going lost if you start the playback of your composition in the middle of the arrangement. Then keyswitches don´t have labels, you´ve to learn them and different libraries are choosing different KS standards. What´s about Basses? Here we have to put the keyswitches in the upper registers. That´s just a few experiences I had. Since I´m using single tracks for articulations, I´m much faster in my workflow. Most of my friends who work as professionals preferring individual midi tracks as well. Just give it a try. It looks worser than it is in reality!

But that´s also a decision related to Berlin Strings. It is technically not possible with Kontakt to put all the articulations into one patch (too many samples). The articulation list is simply too extensive. We conceptualized everything articulation wise to create extensive special scripts for them (e.g. the scale runs are tempo synced, trills have their own scripts, double and triple strokes need another usability, playable glissandi uses a completely different technique,...).
Combining all these scripts and concepts would not work for such an extensive sampled library in Kontakt. We would do compromises to put all this into a KS patch.

Another solution would be an articulation switcher as a multi script. But to be honest, there are A LOT of opportunities out there where you can choose the best for your personal workflow. Some of them are already mentioned above like VST Expression, MindControl, Miditransfier (an amazing tool BTW!) or simple multi instruments in Kontakt.
This way you´re completely free in how you want to build Berlin Strings into your workflow and we don´t have to do compromises in flexibility and quality of the patches.

So please keep in mind that we already combined many different legatos, vibrato expressions, sustain styles into a single patch. So you don´t need so many tracks anyway, except the short notes.
We here at OT are doing libraries how we would and will use them as composers later. It´s a sampling project of some crazy composers and their philosophies. I think that´s one of the secrets of success anyway. Do it how you would buy it straight away. Do what you missed in the other stuff before and do it different if you´re sure it is the right path. Maybe I´m wrong. Who knows?

All the best and looking forward to the release,

Hendrik


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



Eric @ 21st December said:


> Could anyone tell me if the bow attack strength triggered by velocity occurs on all patches, or only on the legato patch? Thanks!
> 
> <edit> never mind my question, I see now the answer is yes... I should've watched the shorts video more closely before posting.



I´m not sure if we talked about this but the different attacks in one patch triggered by velocity is in the adaptive legato patches only.

Best, Hendrik


----------



## star.keys

Hi Hendrik,

Sounds good.. Trust there is something that allows some manual control over articulations (if not the key switches) if/when required? I very much look forward to experience the magic of the script that reads my mind...

Cheers


----------



## BenG

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

I am not sure why "not having key-switches" or multis is such a big issue here. It seems that VST Expression, Mind-Control and TransMIDIfier eliminated the issue. 

Not only are they cheap/free solutions but they are customizable to your likings. All my libraries, with KS or not, are set-up using my custom expression maps so everything is laid out the same way across my whole template. This way, the key-switches for Albion matches BWW which is also the same as HWS and so on. 

Not to mention the patches will probably work better, as Hendrik mentioned. I don't understand what the problem is:/


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Hey Hendrik. Totally understandable. Now please get your IT guys to email those download links out.... :mrgreen:


----------



## rJames

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



BenG @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> I am not sure why "not having key-switches" or multis is such a big issue here. It seems that VST Expression, Mind-Control and TransMIDIfier eliminated the issue.
> 
> Not only are they cheap/free solutions but they are customizable to your likings. All my libraries, with KS or not, are set-up using my custom expression maps so everything is laid out the same way across my whole template. This way, the key-switches for Albion matches BWW which is also the same as HWS and so on.
> 
> Not to mention the patches will probably work better, as Hendrik mentioned. I don't understand what the problem is:/



It works like this...

We ask questions that are not clearly defined by printed marketing materials. Then we get answers which sometimes bring up more questions, so we drill down on a particular issue.

This is how we find out about the products that are presented to us here at VI. We are especially interested if the product will fit into our workflow when the developer is dangling a few hundred dollar savings over our head for a pre-order.

BTW always believe what a developer tells you.

Sarcasm aside, don't assume that the OT scripting doesn't break or prevent other scripts from working because of the way they need to work.

Don't assume anything when buying software. If its not explicitly stated that software will do a particular task, you might want to ask about it.

The library looks great. Just having the variable attacks in the legato is enough to make me want this lib.

IMHO the fact that the legatos are adaptive and complex doesn't fully answer the question as to why the developer doesn't include a script for us to be able to write ALL of our violin1 parts in one track.

Who am I to say that they have to include this script... nobody.

But its a deal breaker for me for the preorder. I just need someone else to buy the lib, test it out and let me know that this product won't break my methods.


----------



## kawaivpc1

Thanks for extending pre-order period... I will buy it tomorrow


----------



## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> Another solution would be an articulation switcher as a multi script. But to be honest, there are A LOT of opportunities out there where you can choose the best for your personal workflow. Some of them are already mentioned above like VST Expression, MindControl, Miditransfier (an amazing tool BTW!) or simple multi instruments in Kontakt.
> This way you´re completely free in how you want to build Berlin Strings into your workflow and we don´t have to do compromises in flexibility and quality of the patches.



I can understand the reasoning behind this, but as an owner of BWW, I can definitely say that I would like to set up Berlin Strings in 'exactly' the same way as BWW. To me, that's a big part of why I would want to build a template that's mainly based on one developers libraries. Whether it's Cinesamples, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, etc. Half the fun is that every instrument is laid out the _exact_ same. 

To me, the BWW Articulation Performer was the absolute perfect answer for Kontakt. I could choose my own articulations AND (as you mentioned) easily blend them together in various ways. Maybe I'm wrong here, but the problem with Cubase VST Expression is that you can't easily blend patches. That's something that would need 2 tracks. Also, the Orange Trees 'Mind Control' doesn't allow the user to use the main Performance view of the Kontakt patches loaded. I'm honestly not too sure what the 'Miditransfier' is or does though. Is that something for both Mac and PC?


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Hmmmm. LASS' Arc? Might just work.


----------



## The Darris

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



benmrx @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> I'm honestly not too sure what the 'Miditransfier' is or does though. Is that something for both Mac and PC?



Check it out, you can accomplish the blending transformations like Sustain to Tremolo, etc. However, you would need to invest into a virtual midi cable solution which is mentioned in this thread for this application here: http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3754450


----------



## Geocranium

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

For those that already own BWW, why not just use the articulation performer? 

Just load up an empty multi in BWW, like first flute empty, then drag the BS patches over the matching BWW patches. This is what I do for other Kontakt instruments. 

It should work just the same, right?


----------



## FlmComp12

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Hendrik— Are things still looking good for a release today?


----------



## Diffusor

It's technically already the 22nd over in Germany right? You are tardy!!


----------



## FlmComp12

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Just received the download link in my email! :D Very excited.


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*



FlmComp12 @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> Just received the download link in my email! :D Very excited.


Same here....psyched!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [PRE-ORDER + SCREENCAST: Playable Glissandi/ Dynamics]*

Hey Guys,

we´re happy to announce the official release of Berlin Strings.
The downloadlinks just went out and the library is now available at 
http://www.orchestraltools.com

Just want to mention our* SSD HD backup service *which we will start with Berlin Strings. Everyone who orders the SSD product with their library purchase will get all the purchased libraries of that order on a backup SSD. We use super fast Samsung 840EVOs for that, which we also recommend for using our libraries.
If you decide to order the SSD backup afterwards, just because Berlin Strings is a huge download with more than 120GB, you can write us an E-Mail to "Support [at] orchestraltools.com" (Please don´t forget to add your order and serial number!). 
More Information about the SSD backup service can be found here: http://www.orchestraltools.com/ssd_service/hd_ssd_service.php

More info about Berlin Strings will follow during the next weeks.

All the best,

Hendrik


----------



## star.keys

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Thanks Hendrik, downloading it now 

Good timing, the download should finish within a day or two (? @ 25 Mbps), just in time when I'm back from family vacation...


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Hello Hendrik,

Congratulations on the release of OT-Belin Strings ! 

I look forward to buy them soon. (Not sure if I will Pre-Order yet) 

Will you be posting additional audio/video demos by Monday ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Looking forward to using this Hendrik - thanks for all your hard work (and that of your team and musicians). Very much appreciate to the tools to work with each and every day.


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

I've started my download but it doesn't look like its installing as fast as it usually does. I have several bits downloaded but only a few show to be installed under the status column. Usually I recall things being installed as soon as they were downloaded. Am I wrong? Should I be worried?


----------



## OT_Tobias

ETmuz: That is totally normal. Connect will first download all sample packages and extract them at the end, because they are 1 continuous archive which needs to be downloaded in full first.

If anything bad happens, Connect will tell you.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Ohhhh... Connect. Is there a manual links download option?


----------



## star.keys

There is a manual download link option in my email, hence assuming it would be there in all emails sent to those who bought it


----------



## Guy Rowland

star.keys @ Sun Dec 22 said:


> There is a manual download link option in my email, hence assuming it would be there in all emails sent to those who bought it



Ah good news. Connect really doesn't play well with some ISPs, glad there's an alternative.


----------



## ETMuz

OT_Tobias @ Sun Dec 22 said:


> ETmuz: That is totally normal. Connect will first download all sample packages and extract them at the end, because they are 1 continuous archive which needs to be downloaded in full first.
> 
> If anything bad happens, Connect will tell you.



Thanks Tobias


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Is there any way to change Connect's download folder once you have started? I tried uninstalling and installing it, but it still remembers the download folder I initially chose. The problem is that there wont be enough space on the drive I chose to hold both the archives + the samples, so I need to get it to another location. This just seems impossible... :shock: 

Have requested the manual links as an alternative, but Connect is easier...


----------



## OT_Tobias

Simon, go to
SYSTEM DRIVE:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\Connect
and look for the files with the BST serial number. Delete and start Connect, it should offer to download to a new location. If you move the already downloaded files to th new location, it will not download them again.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Tobias, thanks but I am on Mac - where would I find those files? I tried deleting "rollbackdirectory" files at User/Continuata/Connect but to no avail.


----------



## OT_Tobias

I guess in ApplicationSupport, but I don't know. Best send an email to Continuata Support, they should be able to tell you.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Tobias, thanks will do - nothing in ApplicationSupport unfortunately.


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

Simon Ravn @ Sun Dec 22 said:


> Tobias, thanks will do - nothing in ApplicationSupport unfortunately.



Simon ,

have a look in your System user section:

SYSTEM DRIVE -> Users -> Simon Ravn (?) -> Continuata -> Connect


there you should find the xml files


Best
Gerd


----------



## OT_Tobias

When they tell you - tell us here in the thread, I'd like to know, too


----------



## kawaivpc1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

for solo string and first chair expansion packs. please make something convincing and realistic. Honestly, the most of libraries out there sound really bad and they don't respond like real solo string instrument. For instance, they also can not play fast legato phrases. When you do that, they start to sound like MIDI machine. 
It could be great if there are many types of legatos with adaptive legato concept. 
Also, if you guys can capture natural double stops or triple stops, it will be nicer. 
These libraries today can play sustain passages pretty well but none of them sound close to real. (o)


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Gerd, thanks but I tried that too. I really tried to get rid of ALL things Continuata, but still it must have snuck some file in somewhere that it hides from us 8) Awaiting an answer from Continuata support - not sure how swift they are, also considering this is the weekend it could be after Christmas....


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

that´s why we decided to create one expansion for blending directly at the stage (first chairs) and another one for solistic passages (soloists).
Of course we´ll try to include as much techniques from the main library as possible and I´m with you, fast playing should be one of the features. :D 

Best, Hendrik


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*



Simon Ravn @ Sun Dec 22 said:


> Gerd, thanks but I tried that too. I really tried to get rid of ALL things Continuata, but still it must have snuck some file in somewhere that it hides from us 8) Awaiting an answer from Continuata support - not sure how swift they are, also considering this is the weekend it could be after Christmas....


Ah , okay . Understand. Sorryto hear that it didn't work out.
As Tobias already asked:
Could you please post the solution for this riddle after you've got a response from Continuata ?
Would be great.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

hmm, there should be a way how you can tell Continuata not to remember the download status but I´ve to ask him too.
I´ll try to reach him via Skype... If I´ve something new I´ll let you know.

Best, Hendrik


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Simon, you just hold down Shift and hit install to pick a new location for installation.

That should work.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Hendrik, wow, that did it. Easy solution (when you know it) 8) 

There you have it, the rest of you wondering as well


----------



## SF_Guy

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Anyone have it yet? Would really appreciate any first impressions, demos, etc... 

I'm seriously considering taking the plunge.

Hendrik, just to be clear, do we have till the END of Sunday or Monday to get the €799 price?


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Could you tell us whether there will be any further audio examples - a string-only demo, or a preview of the ostinago legato feature for example - before the end of monday?

I'm imagining a few people here are looking for an excuse to pull the trigger and grab this, but just want to hear one or two more examples of the library being used in context.


----------



## OT_Tobias

Hi folks,

we just discovered an issue in the Celli Legato patch that has crept in while re-creating the patches to work around the Kontakt 5.3 issue we mentioned.
The Agile Legato has a missing parameter in the backend script, so notes will "jump out". We are tracking down the issue and will provide a hotfix for you Wednesday evening at the latest. We are really sorry this has slipped through our fingers. The bug was not present in the beta patches and none of the other legatos has the issue.
Just to be 100% sure, we will go through the legatos and all other patches as well and look for other issues that might have crept in, but so far the Celli Legato seems to be the only patch affected.

Thanks for your understanding and your patience!


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

After 45 minutes or so, I can say that these are just fantastic. It will certainly take some time to get into all the articulations, but just the legatos alone kept me busy for a bit. So expressive. Excellent job as I expected, guys! o-[][]-o Now back to playing....


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*



feck @ Sun Dec 22 said:


> After 45 minutes or so, I can say that these are just fantastic. It will certainly take some time to get into all the articulations, but just the legatos alone kept me busy for a bit. So expressive. Excellent job as I expected, guys! o-[][]-o Now back to playing....



Great to hear early positive user feedback  

Congratulations on your new Berlin Strings ! 

Have fun o/~ o/~ o/~ and if possible post more feedback when you can. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## kawaivpc1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Please upload your demos!! so we can hear what you guys got
=o


----------



## Walid F.

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*



kawaivpc1 @ Sun Dec 22 said:


> Please upload your demos!! so we can hear what you guys got
> =o



+1!! and more reviews :D


----------



## Vik

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

A few last (?) questions:
Is a link to a clip where I can check out the sordino script?
Can on download the 120gb compressed file to any drive I want (eg. an external drive)?
What's the procedure for controlling the speed of the portamentos, and are long, recorded portamentos (1+ seconds) available?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Vik

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

....and:
If I use the Freeze Track option with Berlin Strings in Logic Pro, is there a(n easy?) way to free up memory in BS/Kontakt afterwards, and still hear the frozen track in Logic?


----------



## Richard Bowling

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

(1) Will there be full string patches? (Sus-short) Didn't see any listed in the articulation PDF. 
(2) when on Monday does the pre-order special end? [ Include time zone :wink: ]


----------



## Jordan Gagne

Is Trepak the only demo for Berlin Strings?


----------



## eschroder

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Alright, feck. We're running out of time! Give us an update on what you think


----------



## Dan Mott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*



feck @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> After 45 minutes or so, I can say that these are just fantastic. It will certainly take some time to get into all the articulations, but just the legatos alone kept me busy for a bit. So expressive. Excellent job as I expected, guys! o-[][]-o Now back to playing....




Post a clip of all the sections sustaining in unison. Cres to decres and some chord changes.


:D


----------



## Notes

OT_Tobias @ Sun Dec 22 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> we just discovered an issue in the Celli Legato patch that has crept in while re-creating the patches to work around the Kontakt 5.3 issue we mentioned.
> The Agile Legato has a missing parameter in the backend script, so notes will "jump out". We are tracking down the issue and will provide a hotfix for you Wednesday evening at the latest. We are really sorry this has slipped through our fingers. The bug was not present in the beta patches and none of the other legatos has the issue.
> Just to be 100% sure, we will go through the legatos and all other patches as well and look for other issues that might have crept in, but so far the Celli Legato seems to be the only patch affected.
> 
> Thanks for your understanding and your patience!



Hello ,

I'm very interested in your library !!! 
But could you please extend the early adopters offer a little bit longer ??
It's difficult to make a decision based on two official Demo Videos out there .
I'm looking forward to hear more demos of BST (_as soon as possible, please_) .
Notes


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Pre-Order will end in a few hours!

Here are all the Demos listed for evaluating:

*Conceptualizing Berlin Strings*
The soundtrack I composed for this video is made with Berlin Strings.
All strings you hear are from BST!

http://youtu.be/Mg8UwKYkYl0

*CHAPTER I: Short Notes*

http://youtu.be/t4k2lDCSDAc

*CHAPTER II: Legato*

http://youtu.be/M2P3Mij7_U8

*CHAPTER III: Playable Glissandi & Dynamics*

http://youtu.be/aWbZHWN-dZI


*Mic Positions Demo*

1. All mics on
2. Concert Master mic
3. AB mics
4. TREE mics
5. CLOSE mics
6. SURROUND mics

[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/BST_Mic_Demo.mp3[/mp3]

*Trépak* (mockup made by Sascha Knorr)
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/berlin_strings_trepak.mp3[/mp3]


More Demos will follow during the next weeks.

All the best,

Hendrik


----------



## star.keys

Just back home from vacation and what a shame, the download had got stuck after 44 RAR files and I had to resume the rest again.. My ISP must have caused something. So around 25GB more to download and hopefully after that I will be able to provide my first impressions later today...


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Great you decided against a refund :D


----------



## Christian Marcussen

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

More impression soooooon.


----------



## m-tron

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

i'd really like to get these, but i was told by tobias from orchestral tools' technical support that:

_"Berlin Strings definitely needs Multiprocessing switched on, simply because it uses parallel threads in a lot of the patches, which is not possible without MP."_

for my setup (2010 mac pro 3.33 ghz 32gb ram master, 3930k 64gb ram windows 7 slave, vepro 5, latest kontakt 5.3), i haven't been able to find a good way to have both kontakt and ve pro's multiprocessing enabled on my slave at the same time. 

the reason i asked tobias about multiprocessing and berlin strings in the first place is that i've had trouble with clicks and pops with their "The Orchestral Grands" instruments (TOG) and despite absolutely LOVING the sound of those pianos, i constantly have to reload the patches while i'm working with them once i start to hear issues (that does seem to fix the problem temporarily, usually for a few passes through the cue). he told me that it's highly advisable to have MP in kontakt enabled with their pianos, so i've tried to do it, but i just haven't been able to make it work yet. granted, i've been under crazy deadlines getting a score ready lately and haven't been able to really spend a lot of time tweaking parameters and then waiting for my template to reload over and over in order to test adequately and find the sweet spot, so it may be possible. but i did try 3 different combinations of thread distribution between vepro and kontakt unsuccessfully before i decided to leave TOG temporarily out of my template and carry on with letting ve pro do all of the multiprocessing. tobias told me that only 3 people (including me and him) have experienced those issues with TOG within ve pro so far, so i don't get the impression that they see it as a big issue. so if you've had this same experience, please contact their tech support and let your voice be heard so that they'll prioritize it! 

anyway, i just wanted to throw this out there in case there are others on the fence about berlin strings and who also have had trouble enabling multiprocessing in kontakt. with multiple patches necessary for each string section, all needing multiprocessing enabled in order to work, i just don't see how i can pull the trigger on these, which is a huge bummer. i know i have plenty of CPU overhead left with my 3930k processor (a beast!), but i just can't get ve pro and kontakt to share its threads efficiently. 

as a side note, i wish orchestral tools would put this requirement for enabling multiprocessing in kontakt on their product pages and in their manuals (it is not in the TOG manual as far as i could find), because it seems to be a minimum requirement for their latest instruments. the only way i found out about this requirement was by experiencing issues and then contacting technical support. i also wish they would allow people to download a .pdf manual for their products before purchasing them like a lot of other sample developers do (apologies if they're on there somewhere, but i couldn't find them readily on the product pages or in the support section).

anyway, i really hope i/we can find a solution to this issue soon so i can feel confident making the substantial investment in berlin strings. they sound amazing, and i love the way the adaptive legato seems to work in the video.


----------



## Vik

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ 23.12.2013 said:


> Pre-Order will end in a few hours!


Fair enough (but too bad  ).... but:

Are the minimum/recommended requirements (RAM, CPU) printed somewhere? I have an 8-core Mac Pro (2008). 
Are any of the sordino scripts demonstrated in any of the videos?
Is there any way to manually force a slow portamento to happen between two notes?


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

I personally doubt that there's anything specific about OT stuff regarding MT. In my experience, using VEP, MT in kontakt is better is better left off. You then assign threads in VEP accordingly.


----------



## OT_Tobias

Multiprocessing benefits most libraries. Everything apart from the legatos (and related articulations) in BST should work fine without multiprocessing switched on; the legato performance is similar to The Orchestral Grands. It runs fine without MP support on my system, by the way.

Even TOG runs perfectly fine on most systems. m-tron, myself and one (!) other user being the only people with this issue so far. 
For me, setting VE Pro to two threads per instance and leaving Kontakt's MP on brings the best results. Nothing in our libraries is in any way specific to just our products. VSL recommends switching MP off all the time, but I found that it needs to be carefully evaluated. I have it on and all issues (also with other libraries from other companies) have stopped.

I also told m-tron that we are actively tracking the issue, so in NO way do we see it not as a priority.


----------



## m-tron

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*



> I personally doubt that there's anything specific about OT stuff regarding MT. In my experience, using VEP, MT in kontakt is better is better left off. You then assign threads in VEP accordingly.



i disagree that there's nothing specific about OT stuff - i have a template of around 600 kontakt instruments including full LASS, LASS LS, most spitfire stuff (all albions, all sable, percussion, etc.), all of adagio, most cinesamples stuff (brass full, winds full, cinestrings core, cineperc full, etc.), tons of VSL (winds 1&2, orchestral strings, chamber strings, solo strings, dimension strings, dimension brass), MIR PRO, tons of different pianos, tons of percussion, etc. orchestral tools' "the orchestral grands" is literally the only instrument i have this problem with (clicks and pops that require me to reload the instrument repeatedly) when i have multiprocessing turned off in kontakt. ve pro does a great job of keeping all of those other instruments happy (i assign all 12 threads to ve pro and leave MP off in kontakt), but not TOG. i don't find that to be a coincidence, but your mileage may vary. everyone's system is different. my only aim was to put the info out there that multiprocessing being on in kontakt is a requirement because OT has not made that clear on this thread or on their site.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

I am doing some simple tests here

just ran 4 legato instruments simultaneously on a Mac 12 core with MP off in K5.3

used about 1/3rd of a processor. My guess is different systems will vary but so far so good here.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

We will check that TOG issue out and we always take reports in a serious way.

Anyway this thread is about Berlin Strings NOT about TOG.
Tobias does his best to help you out via support.

Best, Hendrik


----------



## star.keys

Hi all,

My early impressions, purely in the interest of time for those who are sitting on the fence:

- Absolutely gorgeous sound
- Excellent playability
- I'm loving the legato patches, the script mostly transforms playing into appropriate style
- Fantastic bow attack effect on velocity
- I am yet to figure out how to manually control parameters such as vibrato etc (it's been a few mins and I'm yet to read the manual)

- I faced a few technical glitches, in particular stuck notes (consistently when hosted through VEP and occasionally when hosted directly within Nuendo 6.0.6 - running it on a Mac Pro 12 Core with 32GB Ram, streaming through Samsung Evo 840 1TB SSD).

2 key observations:

- Legato patches are around 0.7 GB, and I loaded Tree and Close which takes it over 1.6GB per legato patch, so you need a high spec system with good amount of RAM and processing power & streaming capability.

- If I could buy only one library, it would't be BST (I wouldn't start comparison here in the commercial announcement thread). However, I see it as indispensable in my current pallet. No serious composer would live with just one library anyway.

Overall, I'm more than happy with the purchase  Great job Hendrik and team - you now have one more loyal customer in the list! If you decide to offer a reasonable deal with BWW, I'm more than happy to buy it.

Cheers!


----------



## Daryl

star.keys @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> ..... No serious composer would live with just one library anyway.


Serious composers wouldn't have any libraries. They would be using pencil and paper. :lol: 

D


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Does the preorder price end at 23.59 German time tonight?


----------



## Casey Edwards

Daryl @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> star.keys @ Mon Dec 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... No serious composer would live with just one library anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Serious composers wouldn't have any libraries. They would be using pencil and paper. :lol:
> 
> D
Click to expand...


Daryl, while I stand by such a Romantic notion and do myself use pencil and paper all the time because I just don't believe in clicking a mouse and crossing your fingers, but you know that for 99% of all composers for the media, we have to deliver a mockup of some kind - even the big guys. Speaking of which, how many composers still use the pencil and paper method exclusively? John Williams, Cliff Eidelman, Joel McNeely, Ron Jones, Conrad Pope... Of the top of my head that's all I can think of. I write concert music as well and miss the days where all my teacher wanted was my staff paper and a few rehearsals.


----------



## m-tron

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*



> I also told m-tron that we are actively tracking the issue, so in NO way do we see it not as a priority.



hi tobias,
yes, you did say in your email today that you guys would take a look at it in january - that's awesome! but you also emphasized that there are very few people experiencing this problem which is why it hasn't been a very high priority for you. this is a direct quote from your october 30th email to me:



> This behaviour is on our list of things to investigate, but it is simply that you and me are among the very few people to run Kontakt on a single core usually, so it is not the highest priority.



from what i've learned from my own experience with my own system, what i've read on the VSL forum, and also from jamwerks a couple of posts ago (and other ve pro users on vi-control), there are many users who find that keeping kontakt's MP off within ve pro works the best for them. like i said before, i have libraries from almost every major sample developer in my template and i've never run into a library that required MP to be on in order for it to work with my system.

that's totally fine (and actually, really cool!) if you guys want to develop some next-level instruments that require MP, but please don't keep it a secret that that's a requirement. my point is that it should be listed on your site and in your manual - it's no different than telling people which versions of kontakt your library requires. i saw a need for other composers who might be in the same boat as me to know what i know about the MP requirement, so i made a post. i've been thankful for other people's similar posts many times in the past - it's part of what makes vi-control so valuable.

please understand that i'm not trying to cause trouble for you guys - i really like your company (specifically tobias has been very friendly and professional in his emails), and the sounds of your products are amazing! but i would hate to see someone invest a ton of money in berlin strings and then find out that they can't use it because of the way their system is set up. maybe i should have just posted "fyi, i have been told by OT that berlin strings will require MP to be turned on in kontakt" and left it at that, but i felt that including more of my system specifics and my issues with TOG would lead to a better understanding by other vi-control members about OT's newer generation of "MP-required" instruments. 

hendrik, i realize that this thread is not about TOG, but they have the same multiprocessing requirement (which has not been made public), so i consider them linked.

anyway, thank you both for looking into the TOG issue, and best of luck with your release! i sincerely hope to buy it soon!


----------



## Simon Ravn

OT_Tobias @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> Multiprocessing benefits most libraries. Everything apart from the legatos (and related articulations) in BST should work fine without multiprocessing switched on; the legato performance is similar to The Orchestral Grands. It runs fine without MP support on my system, by the way.



These things seem to be very system specific. I used to have MP on in Kontakt, but I came in trouble (e.g. with Berlin Woodwinds) very quickly. Trying to find a balance as to how many cores I should set in Logic, how many threads in Vienna, and also how many cores in Kontakt. Anyway, when I disabled MP in Kontakt, performance became much better 8)


----------



## windshore

Guess these cutting edge technologies will have more of us looking at the new Mac Pro in 2014 eh? That's how it always happens, computers get more powerful, then we ask more of them,…

Of course products that give very advanced features require more horsepower and more tweaking.


----------



## Daryl

Casey, I said "serious composers" not "media composers". You know the type; if you hit a chord that sounds like a chord, it must be the work of the Anti-Christ. :wink: 

D


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

I haven't had any CPU issues - in Studio One at 128 samples a legato patch played slowly to quickly (utilizing all transitions) spikes to about 40% on my 8 core 2009 Mac Pro. Certainly less intensive than Hollywood Strings.


----------



## Udo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

I've decided to wait for the special Boxing Day Sale.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Which Special Boxing Day Sale?
Never heard about that before...
Or was that an idea by Tobias? :mrgreen:


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> Which Special Boxing Day Sale?
> Never heard about that before...
> Or was that an idea by Tobias? :mrgreen:


Hey Hendrik, congrats on the release, and thanks for making such a killer new product. So much fun to be had with these....
Cheers!
o-[][]-o


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*

Does the preorder period end at 11.59 German time? So do we still have a couple of hours left?
Would be nice to hear a user demo at least, or have they been told to hold off posting mp3s?


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Just changed the website...
So if you want to buy it, do it now as I´ll change it in our shop system in a few minutes.


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*



feck @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> I haven't had any CPU issues - in Studio One at 128 samples a legato patch played slowly to quickly (utilizing all transitions) spikes to about 40% on my 8 core 2009 Mac Pro. Certainly less intensive than Hollywood Strings.



Feck, how much ram do you have?


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Hi Hendrik,

I look forward to buy OT-Berlin Strings next year ! 

I will have a new super-computer to run it on as well  

Would love to hear more demos of Berlin Strings,very excited about your entire new Berlin Library line up. 2014 is going to be a very exciting year for us sample library addicts. :lol: 

Thanks & Happy Holidays,
Muziksculp


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY]*



ETMuz @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> feck @ Mon Dec 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't had any CPU issues - in Studio One at 128 samples a legato patch played slowly to quickly (utilizing all transitions) spikes to about 40% on my 8 core 2009 Mac Pro. Certainly less intensive than Hollywood Strings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feck, how much ram do you have?
Click to expand...

32GB of DDR800 RAM. I am running Berlin Strings off an SSD.


----------



## Vik

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

So - if I understand this right - these are the prices, except that 21st has been changed to 23rd (midnight, I assume... in other words - very soon)?



> Normal pricing will be:
> € 839,50 (outside EU)
> € 999.- (Germany + EU incl. VAT)
> 
> Pre-Order (ends Dec. 21 ´13):
> € 671,43 (outside EU)
> € 799.- (Germany + EU incl. VAT)
> 
> Intro (ends Jan. 3 ´14):
> € 755,46 (outside EU)
> € 899.- (Germany + EU incl. VAT)



But - will it run on a 2008 Mac Pro, and if yes - what are the RAM recommendation/requirements? Can I download the library to an external drive, or does it default to the system drive (which in my case doesn't have enough space available)?


----------



## Simon Ravn

Vik, whether "it runs" on a 2008 Mac Pro is impossible to say. All depends on what your Mac Pro is equipped with (RAM, SSD's), how many patches you expect to load and use at the same time, what other libraries you might want to run alongside it etc. There's simply too many variables in the answer to that question, IMHO....

Regarding the 2nd question I can answer yes, you can download it and use it on any drive you want, just like any other sample library.

Sorry if I gave a different answer than you might get from the OT team - we'll see


----------



## Vik

Simon Ravn @ 23.12.2013 said:


> Vik, whether "it runs" on a 2008 Mac Pro is impossible to say. All depends on what your Mac Pro is equipped with (RAM, SSD's), how many patches you expect to load and use at the same time, what other libraries you might want to run alongside it etc.



Thanks of your reply and... sure; I'll of course equip my Mac with the needed RAM and SSD if I order it. 
However, I'm living outside the European Union, and the pre-order price seems to be gone - it says € 755.46 even if it it's Monday here and "EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY" in the thread title.


----------



## Casey Edwards

Daryl @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> Casey, I said "serious composers" not "media composers". You know the type; if you hit a chord that sounds like a chord, it must be the work of the Anti-Christ. :wink:
> 
> D



Haha! I knew that was going to be your first quote in a reply if I got one. I get your point man. o-[][]-o


----------



## Ed

Daryl @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> star.keys @ Mon Dec 23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... No serious composer would live with just one library anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Serious composers wouldn't have any libraries. They would be using pencil and paper. :lol:
> 
> D
Click to expand...


I doff my hat to those guys I have no idea how they think! But to me thats like a painter writing down instructions on where to paint and how to paint and how to mix the colours. ---shudder--- I know its not exactly the best analogy since a painter doesnt write out instructions for other people to paint his work usually, but hopefully you get my meaning. I could never be a programmer either for this reason and decided I hated screen writing as well. I just need to see and hear whats actually going on. So with music, its like me trying to write a whole track just in the MIDI piano roll only going by the blocks and colours ERGH. I wonder how that would sound...


BTW, I think this library sounds awesome. I would totally love to buy it if I hadnt already invested in so many other this year, like Sable. I especially like the short notes. Its like Orchestral Tools and 8dio are really pushing this further with new techniques, and with the 8dio podcast recently I think it was Colin who said there's a kind of collective knowledge that gets brought forward with each genderation of new libraries. It takes people like Hendrik Schwarzer and Troels and Colin and others to push the boundaries of new ideas rather than just sampling the same stuff over and over again in the same way just with different players and environments. It happened with G-Town and SAM Horns, then VSL with its legato and round robins and deep sampling (for the time) and its got to take new ideas like this to keep that going. A lot of it has to do with programming I think, sometimes the raw material is there, it just takes someone to figure out the right method. Then maybe we realise the method is good, but we just need to record it slightly differently and it will really make it work X% better. And so it goes...

Btw I dont know if anyone pointed it out before, but watching the "Playable Glissandi & Dynamics" a lot of it reminds me of the dynamic bowings ideas in Adagio.


----------



## Ed

Yes I love killing threads. Next time I'll post a picture of a dead baby.


----------



## NYC Composer

Vik @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> Simon Ravn @ 23.12.2013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vik, whether "it runs" on a 2008 Mac Pro is impossible to say. All depends on what your Mac Pro is equipped with (RAM, SSD's), how many patches you expect to load and use at the same time, what other libraries you might want to run alongside it etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks of your reply and... sure; I'll of course equip my Mac with the needed RAM and SSD if I order it.
> However, I'm living outside the European Union, and the pre-order price seems to be gone - it says € 755.46 even if it it's Monday here and "EXTENDED PRE-ORDER UNTIL MONDAY" in the thread title.
Click to expand...


Just be aware that the late 2008 Mac Pro will not utilize the 6g speed of SSDs because it only runs SATA2 . To use a full speed SSD, you'd have to buy one that was PCI-e based. They're very fast but also very expensive.

I ran into this problem on the same machine and ended up buying a Mac Mini slave and an SSD.


----------



## synergy543

NYC Composer @ Tue Dec 24 said:


> Just be aware that the late 2008 Mac Pro will not utilize the 6g speed of SSDs because it only runs SATA2 . To use a full speed SSD, you'd have to buy one that was PCI-e based. They're very fast but also very expensive.
> 
> I ran into this problem on the same machine and ended up buying a Mac Mini slave and an SSD.


Larry, while this is true for the SATA2 bus, there are other options now. I just installed a Sonnet PCI Adapter and Samsung 1T SSD into my early 2008 Mac Pro 3,1 and I'm seeing speeds over 500MB/s (5.0 GT/s), well over the SATA2 limit of about 170MB/sec. This card works with all later Macs too. The card costs only $117 and the 1T SSD was $530 (both from Amazon). This setup is _F-A-S-T._, my old Mac now feels like a Darth Vader trashcan! Highly recommended (but careful pulling out cards, I broke the PCI retaining clip - still works OK though).

You can even add a second SSD and there is also a 'PRO version' that goes up to 960MB/s if you have more bucks to spend.


----------



## NYC Composer

synergy543 @ Tue Dec 24 said:


> NYC Composer @ Tue Dec 24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just be aware that the late 2008 Mac Pro will not utilize the 6g speed of SSDs because it only runs SATA2 . To use a full speed SSD, you'd have to buy one that was PCI-e based. They're very fast but also very expensive.
> 
> I ran into this problem on the same machine and ended up buying a Mac Mini slave and an SSD.
> 
> 
> 
> Larry, while this is true for the SATA2 bus, there are other options now. I just installed a Sonnet PCI Adapter and Samsung 1T SSD into my early 2008 Mac Pro 3,1 and I'm seeing speeds over 500MB/s (5.0 GT/s), well over the SATA2 limit of about 170MB/sec. This card works with all later Macs too. The card costs only $117 and the 1T SSD was $530 (both from Amazon). This setup is _F-A-S-T._, my old Mac now feels like a Darth Vader trashcan! Highly recommended (but careful pulling out cards, I broke the PCI retaining clip - still works OK though).
> 
> You can even add a second SSD and there is also a 'PRO version' that goes up to 960MB/s if you have more bucks to spend.
Click to expand...


Very interesting indeed, thanks for the info. I may upgrade the Mac Pro as well in that case, although it looks like the Mini slave I bought will be rockin'.

This flies in the face of everything I've heard previously- did you have to install the card into a specific PCI Slot? Is the SSD internal? Are you hooking it up via the SATA bus, or?


----------



## gpax

NYC Composer @ Tue Dec 24 said:


> synergy543 @ Tue Dec 24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYC Composer @ Tue Dec 24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just be aware that the late 2008 Mac Pro will not utilize the 6g speed of SSDs because it only runs SATA2 . To use a full speed SSD, you'd have to buy one that was PCI-e based. They're very fast but also very expensive.
> 
> I ran into this problem on the same machine and ended up buying a Mac Mini slave and an SSD.
> 
> 
> 
> Larry, while this is true for the SATA2 bus, there are other options now. I just installed a Sonnet PCI Adapter and Samsung 1T SSD into my early 2008 Mac Pro 3,1 and I'm seeing speeds over 500MB/s (5.0 GT/s), well over the SATA2 limit of about 170MB/sec. This card works with all later Macs too. The card costs only $117 and the 1T SSD was $530 (both from Amazon). This setup is _F-A-S-T._, my old Mac now feels like a Darth Vader trashcan! Highly recommended (but careful pulling out cards, I broke the PCI retaining clip - still works OK though).
> 
> You can even add a second SSD and there is also a 'PRO version' that goes up to 960MB/s if you have more bucks to spend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very interesting indeed, thanks for the info. I may upgrade the Mac Pro as well in that case, although it looks like the Mini slave I bought will be rockin'.
> 
> This flies in the face of everything I've heard previously- did you have to install the card into a specific PCI Slot? Is the SSD internal? Are you hooking it up via the SATA bus, or?
Click to expand...


Would love to hear more as well (from both of you). I'm on a 3,1 still, and am trying to determine longevity, not to mention if I can run Berlin Strings at some point. Maybe we should start a new thread? 

g


----------



## synergy543

NYC Composer @ Tue Dec 24 said:


> This flies in the face of everything I've heard previously- did you have to install the card into a specific PCI Slot? Is the SSD internal? Are you hooking it up via the SATA bus, or?





gpax @ Tue Dec 24 said:


> Would love to hear more as well (from both of you). I'm on a 3,1 still, and am trying to determine longevity, not to mention if I can run Berlin Strings at some point. Maybe we should start a new thread?


Sounds like a good idea so we don't disrupt the Berlin Strings thread.

@Larry, @gpax
I''ve moved the PCI SSD conversation over to this relevant thread posted today.
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3755408


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

So if I get an SSD for my early 2009 Mac Pro should it be Sata 3?2? Whats the difference?


----------



## muk

Could you please discuss SSD questions in the newly opened thread and get back on topic here? Thanks


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I agree, go to the thread in the other area, it's a great topic but this a thread about BST.

Though I have come down with a flu (yeah merry Xmas) I have spent a fair amount of time with this lib and I think it is pretty great, lots of creative options, very well thought out and some very original ideas.


----------



## Saxer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

wow, this legatos are beautiful! simply playable in all tempos! finally! great!


----------



## Dan Mott

Can you guys who bought it early, post something naked? :D l


----------



## feck

Dan Mott @ Tue Dec 24 said:


> Can you guys who bought it early, post something naked? :D l


The Berlin demos are naked.


----------



## Dan Mott

feck @ Wed Dec 25 said:


> Dan Mott @ Tue Dec 24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you guys who bought it early, post something naked? :D l
> 
> 
> 
> The Berlin demos are naked.
Click to expand...


You mean demo. There is only one demo that is naked and it's all short notes.

want to hear some nice emotive sustains naked.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Hey Guys,

we just released a small hot fix update (v. 1.0.1) which fixes that mentioned legato bug in the celli and a few other small issues we found.
*IMPORTANT:* Please use the download code from the newer update mail you got from us. The first doesn´t work.

A happy Xmas to everyone!

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## brunodegazio

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Hendrick, thanks for the fantastic library. Just finished the download and I'm enjoying the quality and clarity of the sampling and programming. I love the algorithmic sordino, and the playability of the legato is outstanding. I have a few questions. Apologies if these have been answered already on this thread, but I couldn't find mention of them.

1. The "legato_+" patches that you use in your demo video seem to be absent. What's the difference between these and the ones included in release 1.0 (without the "_+" in the filename)? 

2. What is the purpose/style of the various "blurred" patches? 
[edit] I see it on the webpage now - the "blurring" refers to the intonation. 

3. The manual states that the Trill Orchestrator allows "trills" (i.e. interval tremolo) up to a fifth, but they don't seem to actually work beyond a whole tone. Is this a mis-statement in the manual or will they come in an update? 

thanks again for your great work!


----------



## star.keys

After using BST for couple of days, and although I am overall satisfied with the purchase, there are quite a few bugs that need be resolved. These bugs are ranging from tuning problems to transition / cross fading issues. Not sure if some these have resulted out of K5.3 scripting thing but something as something as simple as should have easy to identify through the testing process...


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I got two emails with two different download codes? One worked and one did not. Anything to worry about?

2nd question is do we delete the 1.0.0 nkr/nkc?

I agree the library will be fantastic once all the bugs are fixed.


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



ETMuz @ Wed Dec 25 said:


> I got two emails with two different download codes? One worked and one did not. Anything to worry about?
> 
> 2nd question is do we delete the 1.0.0 nkr/nkc?
> 
> I agree the library will be fantastic once all the bugs are fixed.


Henrik said 2 emails were sent out, disregard the 1st.


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



feck @ Wed Dec 25 said:


> ETMuz @ Wed Dec 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got two emails with two different download codes? One worked and one did not. Anything to worry about?
> 
> 2nd question is do we delete the 1.0.0 nkr/nkc?
> 
> I agree the library will be fantastic once all the bugs are fixed.
> 
> 
> 
> Henrik said 2 emails were sent out, disregard the 1st.
Click to expand...


Right i got that now. What about the 1.0.0 nkr? Did you delete yours?


----------



## Simon Ravn

Am I the only one getting a large amount of crashes when simply loading up patches? I think Logic crashes about 1 time every 5-6 patches of BS I load up. Weird, I never saw this with any other libraries. I am on Maverick and it happens in both Logic 10 and 9, Kontakt 5.x (latest version). Any clues?


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

The only time I had a crash is when I maxed out my RAM seeing how many patches/Mic positions I could load.


----------



## brunodegazio

*first-release bugs*

I've noticed the following strangeness - 

1. Violins 2 - Spiccato - plays 2 semitones high. i.e. striking the note C on the keyboard produces a D 

2a. Celli - Spiccato - plays a major third high, i.e. striking the note C on the keyboard produces an E 

I'm working around both of these transposition problems at the moment by counter-acting the MIDI Transposition in "Instrument Options", but that means the lower few notes of the respective patches are unavailable for use. Substituting the Staccato patch is also a work-around. The Spiccato patches for Violins 2, Violas and Basses all behave normally. All other patches I've used so far (Legato, staccato, pizza, Martele) play as expected. 

I don't think this is a "tuning" bug so much as a "transposition" bug, because the pitch discrepancy of the patches in question is exactly two semitones (or four semitones in the case of the Celli)

2b. Celli - Spiccato - some string knocks against fingerboard at higher dynamics that repeat a bit too often. Only come in when velocity > 64. 

3. Celli legato - unreliable legato connections. 

Apparently there was an update notice sent out, but I didn't receive it. I''m on library release 1.0

These are typical early release bugs that will not be difficult to iron out. This is still a fantastic library with huge potential.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

Simon Ravn @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> Am I the only one getting a large amount of crashes when simply loading up patches? I think Logic crashes about 1 time every 5-6 patches of BS I load up. Weird, I never saw this with any other libraries. I am on Maverick and it happens in both Logic 10 and 9, Kontakt 5.x (latest version). Any clues?



This is happening with most of my libraries in K5.3, it is not BST specific. Not writing over another patch seems to help a bit but it still is not right.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Craig, ahh ok "great" Yes I usually drag'n'drop stuff over eachother. I will try to delete patches and double click instead and see if it helps.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: first-release bugs*



brunodegazio @ 26th December said:


> I've noticed the following strangeness -
> 
> 1. Violins 2 - Spiccato - plays 2 semitones high. i.e. striking the note C on the keyboard produces a D
> 
> 2a. Celli - Spiccato - plays a major third high, i.e. striking the note C on the keyboard produces an E
> 
> I'm working around both of these transposition problems at the moment by counter-acting the MIDI Transposition in "Instrument Options", but that means the lower few notes of the respective patches are unavailable for use. Substituting the Staccato patch is also a work-around. The Spiccato patches for Violins 2, Violas and Basses all behave normally. All other patches I've used so far (Legato, staccato, pizza, Martele) play as expected.
> 
> I don't think this is a "tuning" bug so much as a "transposition" bug, because the pitch discrepancy of the patches in question is exactly two semitones (or four semitones in the case of the Celli)
> 
> 2b. Celli - Spiccato - some string knocks against fingerboard at higher dynamics that repeat a bit too often. Only come in when velocity > 64.
> 
> 3. Celli legato - unreliable legato connections.
> 
> Apparently there was an update notice sent out, but I didn't receive it. I''m on library release 1.0
> 
> These are typical early release bugs that will not be difficult to iron out. This is still a fantastic library with huge potential.




Hi Brunodegazio, all these bugs (except 2b) are already fixed with v.1.0.1.
Regarding 2b, we´ll check that and fix it with v.1.1

Maybe you can take a look into your spam folder for the update mail. Otherwise we can send out a new mail for you. Please just send a mail to support (at) orchestraltools.com

Great you like the library sofar!

@Simon Ravn: We will observe that too and I´ll contact NI if that is a common Kontakt problem.

@ETMuz: Yes, you can delete that file, if you don´t want to use the initial v1.0 version anymore. V1.0.1 fixed several bugs already!


All the best,
Hendrik


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I must say that what I tried so far sounds really promising and quite extraordinary. The cellos... wow... the cello repetitions, wow... Everything sounds very even and without major problems. It's a great 1 (.01) release which seems to have gone through careful programming and testing. And the sound is awesome. Maybe some problems with noise build ups in the violins shorts, and a little lack of air generally but I think a little EQ can help with both. Super excited about this and very happy I went for the pre-order! 8)

Not so sure I'll be a big fan of the cor sordino-button though... I hope you'll consider recording the real deal, especially for violins and violas.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Oh, one more request: Panning options for the close and concert mics! As it is now, if I dial up the close mics on the basses, my basses will sound more and more centered, instead of being to the right. Same for the other sections.


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Berlin Strings user demo

https://soundcloud.com/grasun_cat/ravel ... tet-in-f-i


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I haven't been back at my computer since The night I got BS up and running, but one thing I noticed was the 16 note patch was not synced to my host tempo.

^
Hendrik you may have already fixed this issue is was just something I remember taking note of while I was going through patches. 

Super excited to get back to my DAW and play BS


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Simon Ravn @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> I must say that what I tried so far sounds really promising and quite extraordinary. The cellos... wow... the cello repetitions, wow... Everything sounds very even and without major problems. It's a great 1 (.01) release which seems to have gone through careful programming and testing. And the sound is awesome. Maybe some problems with noise build ups in the violins shorts, and a little lack of air generally but I think a little EQ can help with both. Super excited about this and very happy I went for the pre-order! 8)
> 
> Not so sure I'll be a big fan of the cor sordino-button though... I hope you'll consider recording the real deal, especially for violins and violas.



I was surprised how well these worked, of course the real deal is better but few people will be able to tell the difference.


----------



## pavolbrezina

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Gabriel Oliveira @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> Berlin Strings user demo
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/grasun_cat/ravel ... tet-in-f-i



Very synthy sounding. You should give some breath to those music...


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Could just be a midi file that someone's applied the respective legato patches to... Hard to tell what it really sounds like without some official demos.


----------



## quantum7

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



pavolbrezina @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> Gabriel Oliveira @ Thu Dec 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Berlin Strings user demo
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/grasun_cat/ravel ... tet-in-f-i
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very synthy sounding. You should give some breath to those music...
Click to expand...


Agreed! I would think Berlin Strings could do much better.


----------



## Jordan Gagne

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



quantum7 @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> pavolbrezina @ Thu Dec 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gabriel Oliveira @ Thu Dec 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Berlin Strings user demo
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/grasun_cat/ravel ... tet-in-f-i
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very synthy sounding. You should give some breath to those music...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agreed! I would think Berlin Strings could do much better.
Click to expand...


That's the thing about releasing a library with only one demo; you get user demos and you're at the mercy of the user's production levels. :o


----------



## pavolbrezina

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

So question is, why OT didnt make serious demo for this library. I really dont understand this.


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



pavolbrezina @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> So question is, why OT didnt make serious demo for this library. I really dont understand this.



Hi,

The very limited number of audio/video demos of OT's Berlin Strings was one of the primary reasons I did not Pre-Order it. 

I was hoping they will post more demos before the Pre-Order expired, but they didn't. 

imho. it is very, very important that developers give us as much sonic feedback as possible, when they release a library, especially one with a high-price tag. Maybe they got too busy trying to finish up the library, and did not have enough time to produce a lot of demos that will showcase it. 

Oh well.. I'm still waiting for more demos to be posted before I click the buy button on Berlin Strings, most likely during Q-1 2014. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



pavolbrezina @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> Gabriel Oliveira @ Thu Dec 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Berlin Strings user demo
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/grasun_cat/ravel ... tet-in-f-i
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very synthy sounding. You should give some breath to those music...
Click to expand...


not my demo, just found on soundcloud...


----------



## Jordan Gagne

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



pavolbrezina @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> So question is, why OT didnt make serious demo for this library. I really dont understand this.



It's possible that they had to omit demos in order to make a pre-Christmas release. But it's risky because the composers that are hired to write demos for sample libraries fulfill a very important role as they usually show how powerful a library is in adept hands. Luckily OT has an incredible track record so I'm assuming that Berlin Strings is phenomenal despite not being blown away by the Trepak demo. 

That being said, every time a user posts a mockup showing off Berlin Strings that is poorly sequenced (no offense meant to the fellow who posted his demo here), they run the risk of losing potential customers due to a the perceived quality of the library dropping. At least if you have one amazing demo you know that the library is capable of replicating that with enough attention to detail.


----------



## Vik

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



muziksculp @ 26.12.2013 said:


> pavolbrezina @ Thu Dec 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So question is, why OT didnt make serious demo for this library. I really dont understand this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The very limited number of audio/video demos of OT's Berlin Strings was one of the primary reasons I did not Pre-Order it.
Click to expand...


The reasons is probably a combination of not enough time and not enough time to finish thd product they need in order to make a demo of it.

There's some info about OT's plans here: 
http://www.orchestraltools.com/observatory/#prettyPhoto
If you click on the images, it says that both EXP A and EXP B is needed if for those who need...

- Sul Ponticello
- Sul Tasto/ Flautando
- Flageolets/ Harmonics
- Col Legno

...for all the four instruments. 

Luckily there are other great libraries which can be used until BS is more complete and more info is posted (and afterwards as well!) – but has anyone heard anything about when they plan to release these expansion kits – and at which price?


----------



## Dan Mott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

The real question is. Why have OT constantly ignored customers questions about an ETA of more demos.... and also why there have been so little.


----------



## SamiMatar

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



> The real question is. Why have OT constantly ignored customers questions about an ETA of more demos.... and also why there have been so little



+1


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Gabriel Oliveira @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> Berlin Strings user demo
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/grasun_cat/ravel ... tet-in-f-i



That almost sounds like someone loaded a midi score for Ravel, assigned instruments and pressed play. Don't know.

EDIT: I'm not criticizing BST here. Everything I've heard of BST's sound so far is pretty incredible. Just commenting on this mockup.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Dan Mott @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> The real question is. Why have OT constantly ignored customers questions about an ETA of more demos.... and also why there have been so little.



Do you really think they are ignoring requests for demos?

Lets see, they deliver a product on time even after having major problems just shortly before release.

This alone would stop them from doing demos

It is also Christmas but my guess is they were lucky to get in much family time.

As mods we have allowed users to publicly attack developers in the past but that is not fair to the developers and they are as much as a part of the board as the user. Hopefully it is usually a symbiotic relationship cause neither can live w/o the other.

The other thing OT owes you nothing as you have no obligation to buy their products.


----------



## Jordan Gagne

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Craig Sharmat @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> Dan Mott @ Thu Dec 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real question is. Why have OT constantly ignored customers questions about an ETA of more demos.... and also why there have been so little.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really think they are ignoring requests for demos?
> 
> Lets see, they deliver a product on time even after having major problems just shortly before release.
> 
> This alone would stop them from doing demos
> 
> It is also Christmas but my guess is they were lucky to get in much family time.
> 
> As mods we have allowed users to publicly attack developers in the past but that is not fair to the developers and they are as much as a part of the board as the user. Hopefully it is usually a symbiotic relationship cause neither can live w/o the other.
> 
> The other thing OT owes you nothing as you have no obligation to buy their products.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't really call what he said an attack; I think he's just saying he can't justify buying the product given how little of it has been heard, which is a fair point imo. OT is a tier 1 sample developer and deserves credibility based on their track record, but at the end of the day it's still around a thousand dollar purchase, isn't it? (not sure of the price right now)


----------



## Dan Mott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Craig Sharmat @ Fri Dec 27 said:


> Dan Mott @ Thu Dec 26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real question is. Why have OT constantly ignored customers questions about an ETA of more demos.... and also why there have been so little.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With all due respect
> 
> *Do you really think they are ignoring requests for demos?* - Yes. Just scroll through the thread.
> 
> *Lets see, they deliver a product on time even after having major problems just shortly before release.* - Perhaps they should have delivered it when it was working? I do not understand why releases have to be rushed these days.
> 
> *This alone would stop them from doing demos
> 
> It is also Christmas but my guess is they were lucky to get in much family time.*
> 
> No problem with spending time with Family on Christmas, I'm all for that. Demos were asked way before Christmas. In fact, the product was released with one naked demo that only had short notes. What's up with that? Got something to hide? Unorganized? Rushing to grab our money? Just curious.
> 
> *As mods we have allowed users to publicly attack developers in the past but that is not fair to the developers and they are as much as a part of the board as the user. Hopefully it is usually a symbiotic relationship cause neither can live w/o the other.*
> 
> I am not attacking anybody. I am just wondering why a lot of questions have been ignored. In fact, if they answered my question and others questions, for example - Sorry. We haven't had much time to write any demos. We are just a little busy at the moment. However, we are working on it, so hang in there. We will get some demos soon. See what I did there? Customer communication. That's all they had to say... ah well.
> 
> *The other thing OT owes you nothing as you have no obligation to buy their products.*
> 
> No. I do not have any obligation to buy. How could I anyway? It's a bit hard to tell from one demo. I just have curiosity and interest in the product, as well has what they are doing businiess wise because it seems odd to me. If they owe us anything, then it would be to answer some questions about lack of demos. It's really simple. Takes about a minute of someones time.
> 
> 
> Merry Christmas :D
Click to expand...


----------



## SamiMatar

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I think it's very reasonable to ask for demos considering the points you mentioned. 

OT is a business and at the very least they are obligated to respond to the request. Whether it be a yes or a no. It's unprofessional to completely ignore one, let alone multiple comments and questions from multiple users on this thread. 

Frankly, I think your (Craig Sharmat) response is more of an attack.


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

That demo is not at all what I hear when I play with BS. I would've tried to do a user demo but I have just not been home :(


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



SamiMatar @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> I think it's very reasonable to ask for demos considering the points you mentioned.
> 
> OT is a business and at the very least they are obligated to respond to the request. Whether it be a yes or a no. It's unprofessional to completely ignore one, let alone multiple comments and questions from multiple users on this thread.
> 
> Frankly, I think your (Craig Sharmat) response is more of an attack.



I am laying it out the way I see it. I know these guys worked hard to make a release date. Remember not too long ago we would get demos of products that we could not buy for many months even with a pre-order and the product would come in a practically unusable state. This product came in very good shape for a 1.0. and I prefer this business model to promises of a brighter future with shiny demos and an incomplete product. Should you buy this product just because I suggest it? ...of course you should...


----------



## Arbee

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Perhaps "lack of demo variety that can be highly scrutinised by potential customers" + "short early buy discount period" + "not a cheap and cheerful library" = "some degree of frustration from same potential customers"? 

I don't see anything more evil than that in this thread.

.


----------



## Dan Mott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Arbee @ Fri Dec 27 said:


> Perhaps "lack of demo variety that can be highly scrutinised by potential customers" + "short early buy discount period" + "not a cheap and cheerful library" = "some degree of frustration from same potential customers"?
> 
> I don't see anything more evil than that in this thread.
> 
> .



Well for me, I do not care how much it is. If it's too expensive, then I won't bother buying until I can afford it. It's that simple. I'm not going to complain about it.


but............


I do not need to explain the BUT. I already have.


----------



## Guy Rowland

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I kinda feel for OT - they pretty much honoured their release date when faced with last minute difficult challenges, and good for them.

IMO (and it really is) I'd far prefer it if developers ignore us clamouring impatient lot and built in more margin for error into their schedules, with a couple of months allowed for last tweaks and sending out betas to folks who can do demos. I'm not really a fan of strictly pre-release offers, but allowing more tweaking / demoing time might provide a better context for them.

Good observation from Mahlon above. I'd expect to hear some great pieces in the coming weeks featuring Berlin.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I too have been spending the past days celebrating x-mas 8) So I only had a couple of hours with BST, but I am getting more and more impressed with what I hear. There are articulations in there that I didn't even know they were doing, like the "Hook tremolos" which are awesome in the cellos and can be used for some really frantic repeated notes lines, the "accented attack" sustains, the "long exp" and "short exp" sustains and much more that hasn't really been done like this before. There's so much more than "just" the legatos and shorts in this library (which I would say would have been worth the price alone) so I am very happy so far. There are just a couple of initial issues that I already mentioned with noise build up in the violins and a little lack of air for my liking. I don't think those will be showstoppers though and I look forward to really getting to grips with this library 8) 

The lack of demos I think is mainly down to OT not having the time to do it, prioritizing getting the library out in good shape on time - 3 days before christmas, which probably made it tough for them to do anything between the 21st and ... today. I don't think they are hiding anything because they don't need to.


----------



## Celador

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Gabriel Oliveira @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> Berlin Strings user demo
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/grasun_cat/ravel ... tet-in-f-i



This must be kind of abstract art: Buy a 1000 Euro library and let it sound like a SoundBlaster GM synth from 1993 . Amazing!


----------



## synergy543

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Simon Ravn @ Fri Dec 27 said:


> I too have been spending the past days celebrating x-mas 8) So I only had a couple of hours with BST, but I am getting more and more impressed with what I hear. There are articulations in there that I didn't even know they were doing, like the "Hook tremolos" which are awesome in the cellos and can be used for some really frantic repeated notes lines, the "accented attack" sustains, the "long exp" and "short exp" sustains and much more that hasn't really been done like this before. There's so much more than "just" the legatos and shorts in this library (which I would say would have been worth the price alone) so I am very happy so far..


+1
Simon's impression mirrors mine. I was very impressed by the tremendous variety of expressive articulations. Its a bit like getting a beautiful set of rich pastels with every imaginable color. Somewhat daunting, but such a magnificent toolset to have! And every bit as lovely as the few demos led me to believe.


----------



## Diffusor

Is there a way to easily separate out each mic position to a discrete Kontakt output? Didn't see anything in the videos.


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



synergy543 @ Fri Dec 27 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Fri Dec 27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I too have been spending the past days celebrating x-mas 8) So I only had a couple of hours with BST, but I am getting more and more impressed with what I hear. There are articulations in there that I didn't even know they were doing, like the "Hook tremolos" which are awesome in the cellos and can be used for some really frantic repeated notes lines, the "accented attack" sustains, the "long exp" and "short exp" sustains and much more that hasn't really been done like this before. There's so much more than "just" the legatos and shorts in this library (which I would say would have been worth the price alone) so I am very happy so far..
> 
> 
> 
> +1
> Simon's impression mirrors mine. I was very impressed by the tremendous variety of expressive articulations. Its a bit like getting a beautiful set of rich pastels with every imaginable color. Somewhat daunting, but such a magnificent toolset to have! And every bit as lovely as the few demos led me to believe.
Click to expand...


+2 and I am very excited for the rr legatos which we haven't even seen yet! I just wonder why these have not been incorporated into the normal legato patches (probably because they were not ready yet and maybe for the patch becoming to big). I find ostinato legatos one of the most important articulations for groundbreaking new libraries and hope those will be made available for all string sections in future updates. Also, I think there is some room for improvement for the runs patches, as they seem to create artifacts and sometimes erratic behavior (but that made have to do with them being on a regular HD as I went out of SSD space).
Apart from that I also want to say that even the stuff available now seems well worth the money spent in comparison to other libraries.
Congratulations on a pretty solid 1.0 release to Hendrik and OT!


----------



## muk

Of course more demos - especially a naked one with a musical background - would be welcome. But what helps me most to evaluate a sample library are (elaborate) reviews and user videos/tutorials/walkthroughs. From demos I can only judge the sound of a library. When it comes to workflow I need the other mentioned resources.


----------



## DenisT

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I didn't pre-order it for the same reasons : price & lack of demos.

Why would I buy Berlin Strings when I can get Hollywood Strings AND Hollywood Brass for less money? I don't even now how good Berlin Strings sounds, while HS and HB sounds awesome thanks to a lot of great demos. OT needs to provide demos, a list of articulations is not enough.

I have a lot of repsect for OT, of course. But it's a business, and you need to show your customers why your product worth spending so much money. And right now, I still don't know why I should buy Berlin Strings, just because I can't evaluate how good it is.

I'm sure it's a great product with a LOT of potential, but DEMOS. It's all about DEMOS. :wink:


----------



## Dan Mott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

[quo"DenisT @ Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:27 pm"]I didn't pre-order it for the same reasons : price & lack of demos.

Why would I buy Berlin Strings when I can get Hollywood Strings AND Hollywood Brass for less money? I don't even now how good Berlin Strings sounds, while HS and HB sounds awesome thanks to a lot of great demos. OT needs to provide demos, a list of articulations is not enough.

I have a lot of repsect for OT, of course. But it's a business, and you need to show your customers why your product worth spending so much money. And right now, I still don't know why I should buy Berlin Strings, just because I can't evaluate how good it is.

I'm sure it's a great product with a LOT of potential, but DEMOS. It's all about DEMOS. :wink:[/quote]


Exactly


----------



## Vik

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [Concept Video added]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ 25.11.2013 said:


> Details, demos and walkthroughs will follow...


Great! Will this info and walkthroughs be posted before or after the intro offer expires on the 3rd next week? 

Like many others, I like both LASS, Spitfire and Berlin (or, I guess I'll like them when/if I get them), and will probably buy several libraries – but I/we still need to know more about Berlin, since the others are out already.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Dan Mott @ Fri Dec 27 said:


> [quo"DenisT @ Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:27 pm"]I didn't pre-order it for the same reasons : price & lack of demos.
> 
> Why would I buy Berlin Strings when I can get Hollywood Strings AND Hollywood Brass for less money? I don't even now how good Berlin Strings sounds, while HS and HB sounds awesome thanks to a lot of great demos. OT needs to provide demos, a list of articulations is not enough.
> 
> I have a lot of repsect for OT, of course. But it's a business, and you need to show your customers why your product worth spending so much money. And right now, I still don't know why I should buy Berlin Strings, just because I can't evaluate how good it is.
> 
> I'm sure it's a great product with a LOT of potential, but DEMOS. It's all about DEMOS. :wink:




Exactly[/quote]


Not to derail the thread but "if" you have a system that can handle Hollywood Strings or brass at the ridiculously low price it often is on sale for why wouldn't you do it?


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I bought BS ONLY for the legatos (which have met or perhaps exceeded my expectations). The shorts are a huge surprise and as Simon mentioned there are many arts that have simply not been done (at least so convincingly). RR legatos? It will push it over the top and even without THAT - I'll buy anything from this series (based on the BS I have right now) - without a single demo. BS is THAT good. IMHO.


----------



## Dan Mott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Rob Elliott @ Sat Dec 28 said:


> I bought BS ONLY for the legatos (which have met or perhaps exceeded my expectations). The shorts are a huge surprise and as Simon mentioned there are many arts that have simply not been done (at least so convincingly). RR legatos? It will push it over the top and even without THAT - I'll buy anything from this series (based on the BS I have right now) - without a single demo. BS is THAT good. IMHO.




Well too bad there isn't one demo that proves what you said.


----------



## Diffusor

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



DenisT @ Fri Dec 27 said:


> I didn't pre-order it for the same reasons : price & lack of demos.
> 
> Why would I buy Berlin Strings when I can get Hollywood Strings AND Hollywood Brass for less money? I don't even now how good Berlin Strings sounds, while HS and HB sounds awesome thanks to a lot of great demos. OT needs to provide demos, a list of articulations is not enough.
> 
> I have a lot of repsect for OT, of course. But it's a business, and you need to show your customers why your product worth spending so much money. And right now, I still don't know why I should buy Berlin Strings, just because I can't evaluate how good it is.
> 
> I'm sure it's a great product with a LOT of potential, but DEMOS. It's all about DEMOS. :wink:



Not exactly fair. Hollywood Strings was about $1300 when released. I bought at that price and now I've seen it being blown out for under $400. For that reason alone I will never buy another EW product. On top of that Play is glitch city with it, even with a SSD and a super powerful machine. I tried to run it for around a year and finally just got sick of babysitting it all the time. EastWest tried to say the big legato patches just have a lot more going on than other libraries. Well I can definitely say with OT's adaptive legato technology, intonation and attack, a legato patch over 4 gigs you can say their claim is false; PLAY is indeed just a garbage player. feck said a BS legato patch with all mic perspectives loaded plays back perfectly off a SSD. I couldn't even get one mic position of a HS legato patch to play back "consistently" perfect. And just what I have seen and heard so far Berlin Strings just crushes Hollywood Strings with the adaptive legato in terms of playability and expressiveness, and I like the sound better as well.


----------



## Graham Keitch

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I had allocated about 750 GBP for this ...... and it's still sitting in my bank account. Nuff said. :( 

Graham


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Just want to drop a note that demos are currently in production and will be posted before the intro special ends.
Of course we will provide them - no question!

Indeed we had a very big issue with how Kontakt 5.3 stored patches which were created with 5.2. We invested all the man power and energy into fixing that issue and I´m happy to say that this issue doesn´t exist in the inital version anymore. 
I´m sure this bug would have created a shit storm (especially here at Vi C !).
So with that in mind I´m pretty relaxed that this and some other things are fixed already. Berlin Strings 1.0.1 is a very solid and stable version, something that´s much more important to me than additional demos.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Saxer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

good decision.


----------



## Graham Keitch

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

To be fair, no one was asking for a full Vaughan Williams mock-up - just a few bars of sustained strings involving the whole string orchestra. If the library is so playable, that shouldn't take more than a few minutes.


----------



## kawaivpc1

Please put more classical music demos. I'd like to hear some *Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, Smetana, Beethoven, Mozart, Handel *etc. I wish you guys put some convincing mockup of old grand masterpieces. As well as contemporary pieces from Philip Glass, Karl Jenkins would be great..


o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~

*Mockup recommendation: *
*
Beethoven Symphony No. 5
Karl Jenkins - Palladio - Allegro & Presto, Sarikiz - Allegro 
Bedřich Smetana - Moldau
Tchaikovsky - Symphony No 6, Piano Concert No 1
Rachmaninoff - Piano Concerto No 2
Ennio Morricone - Deborah's Theme
*

o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~


----------



## handz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Hmmm and still not any demos out...

Sorry but who (other than people who buys every major lib that is released) spends such amount of money on a lib you heard only tiny bit of?

Especially after many of other big libs released recently were received with very mixed feelings and some people publicly regretted preordering... really this was not a good move. I know that OT libs are usually great but still, without detailed waltkhrough or demos it is unlikely tha most people buy it nowdays. 

Hope to hear some detailed demos specializing to unique and main features of the lib soon. o/~


----------



## aaronnt1

Why do people keep pressurising OT for these demos? They said there will be some soon, and before the preorder offer ends, so relax! Go and have some more Christmas cake and take it easy!


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Dec 27 said:


> Indeed we had a very big issue with how Kontakt 5.3 stored patches which were created with 5.2. We invested all the man power and energy into fixing that issue and I´m happy to say that this issue doesn´t exist in the inital version anymore.
> I´m sure this bug would have created a [email protected]#t storm (especially here at Vi C !).



I can understand the panic and rush very well, which results from this. And not to mention, it was Christmas. Working for this at Christmas is not self-evident. For this you get from me a praise. Respect!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Handz, please read my post above!
BTW this pre-order was successfull and I´m happy to say that we sold more licenses in such a short time than with any other library before.
We´ll provide more demos before we end the intro price special. Just wait until more demos are available if you´re unsure at the moment. There is no preassure :D


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

More demos before the Jan intro price would be welcome. Especially ostinato legato, since I'm having issues trying to get a workable sound for those lines currently. 

I've also earmarked cash for this, so I'm ready to grab before the deadline if the impending demos do the job!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Ostinato Legato will come in a free update next month. We´ll not be able to show them next week as we have to put a lot of work into them.


----------



## AC986

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Graham Keitch @ Fri Dec 27 said:


> I had allocated about 750 GBP for this ...... and it's still sitting in my bank account. Nuff said. :(
> 
> Graham



Graham I feel quite lucky.

The feeling I get from some good musicians on this thread is that it's great and will get better when more and more issues get ironed out. Why is that lucky?

Because by the time the issues are more or less ironed out, Mural will be released and then we can all do a fair comparison. Of course, there will be a lot of people that will want both. Alas, I cannot afford both.

I can understand why people want classic mock ups but that's the last type of demo I want. I want something original and contemporary.


----------



## williemyers

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

o.k....

let's see.....

@ 12:51pm, today - Hendrik writes *"Just want to drop a note that demos are currently in production and will be posted before the intro special ends."
*
then, @ 1:20pm, today ((29 minutes later)), handz writes: *"Hmmm and still not any demos out..."*

is it just me, or is this all gettin' a bit ridiculous?!?!


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



williemyers @ Fri Dec 27 said:


> o.k....
> 
> let's see.....
> 
> @ 12:51pm, today - Hendrik writes *"Just want to drop a note that demos are currently in production and will be posted before the intro special ends."
> *
> then, @ 1:20pm, today ((29 minutes later)), handz writes: *"Hmmm and still not any demos out..."*
> 
> is it just me, or is this all gettin' a bit ridiculous?!?!


It is not just you.


----------



## Richard Bowling

Did he say, "sh!t storm"? ....
....That was grade A hilarious!

OT - just keep up the innovative thinking


----------



## Dan Mott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Sat Dec 28 said:


> Just want to drop a note that demos are currently in production and will be posted before the intro special ends.
> Of course we will provide them - no question!
> 
> Indeed we had a very big issue with how Kontakt 5.3 stored patches which were created with 5.2. We invested all the man power and energy into fixing that issue and I´m happy to say that this issue doesn´t exist in the inital version anymore.
> I´m sure this bug would have created a shit storm (especially here at Vi C !).
> So with that in mind I´m pretty relaxed that this and some other things are fixed already. Berlin Strings 1.0.1 is a very solid and stable version, something that´s much more important to me than additional demos.
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik




Thank you. That's all we needed. :D


----------



## Nathanael Iversen

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Just a quick happy customer post. Very pleased with the whole experience. The pre-order price was much appreciated, the early demos showed the care given to the samples, and the articulation list was extensive. (and those portato cellos.....) I'm still getting it built into the template, but I am very impressed with the scope and quality. First class release and organization. Thanks for a great product.

I will happily take product quality over demos any day.

Nathanael


----------



## Graham Keitch

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



niversen @ Sat Dec 28 said:


> I will happily take product quality over demos any day.
> 
> Nathanael



A two minute demo isn't going to reduce the quality of the product Nathanael!

Ofcourse the product is top rate - all the OT products are and that's why I intend to purchase the strings library to go with my Berlin WW, Spheres, Timps and other OT tools. However, some of us want to hear what we're getting before parting with big money. So, for now the money stays in my account. We've been promised demos soon and I look forward to them. But to suggest demos will compromise the quality of the product is silly.  

The more of us that buy this library - the more money will end up in OTs coffers for further improvements and developments. So please don't knock those of us that are holding back until more demos are released. It's in your interests too to keep us happy! :wink: 

Graham


----------



## Vik

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Graham Keitch @ 28.12.2013 said:


> niversen @ Sat Dec 28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will happily take product quality over demos any day.
> 
> Nathanael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A two minute demo isn't going to reduce the quality of the product Nathanael!
Click to expand...

Maybe he just referred to the fact that they recently had spent time on bugfixing/finishing the product instead of making more demos? Anyway... for those of us who don't already know OT's user interface, and know little or nothing about the tweakabilty of these products, walkthroughs are essential. This has to do with how the library deal with divisi (reducing section size or not?) and scalability in general, manual control of eg portamento speed, ability to block away RRs, purge unused samples and so on. 

Since the competition both have their products out *and* have brilliant walkthroughs, most potential customers probably expect to see real walkthroughs (and not only demos) before purchasing something in this price range. 

The vast amount of recordings could maybe also require an extra level of testing and system requirements, since - AFAIK - none of the released and finished string libraries are that large. I know Vienna Dimension Strings strings will contain circa a million samples when i's ready, and I guess there are *lots* of samples in BS as well (due to 254 gb size). So just a hint about minimum requirements would be good to see. I guess SSDs are needed, but will 16 gb RAM be enough? Will BS be usable on a MacBook Pro at all?


----------



## Saxer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

its easier on cpu than dimension strings and runs on my 16gb macmini with ssd and on my old macpro. i think it's compareable to any other kontakt string library. but i just startet testing...


----------



## BenG

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Saxer @ Sat Dec 28 said:


> its easier on cpu than dimension strings and runs on my 16gb macmini with ssd and on my old macpro. i think it's compareable to any other kontakt string library. but i just startet testing...



Great to hear!


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Did a short mockup of some John Williams as my first "play around" and "getting used to" BST. It is pretty short because figuring out what exactly is going on in the music is pretty impossible for me, so I just held the last (not true to the original) chord and ended it right there abruptly.

There's an issue with the basses - the legato intervals seem to always be too loud so each time you attack a note, you get a very audioable "bump" which is also evident in this small mockup. But that should be an easy fix for OT... 8) 

http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-BST-JW-test.mp3

I am sure BST can do even better than this, when you really get to know the library and when some of the current issues get adressed, but I love the "intimate" vibrato that you can get in the violins especially.


----------



## TheUnfinished

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

That sounded very nice Simon. Damn you.


----------



## brunodegazio

*demo - Vaughan Williams Fantasia on Greensleeves*

I thought the RVW arrangement is simple and would give a workout for the legato. My rendering still rough around the edges, but I've learned a good deal of how to use Berlin Strings. 

https://soundcloud.com/bruno-degazio/fa ... eensleeves

Uses Berlin Strings (legato, spiccato, tremolo, pizz.) Wallander WIVI flutes, Kirk Hunter Harp. 

The Strings are mostly divisi, which I simulate with two instances of BST. Not ideal, but not too bad. I would prefer to use Embertone as a second library with a small section size, but the Freidlander's lack of tremolo and pizz stopped me. 

I found that the main legato patches were a bit unpredictable, so I 'locked" them to the "agile" setting in the player. Smoother and more consistent response. Also needed to set the dynamic response to 64 for most patches to get enough range at the quiet end.


----------



## kawaivpc1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Great demos.... sounds better than LASS


----------



## rottoy

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Not to take anything away from the current release,
but I'm saving my cash for the upcoming Expansion C: Soloists for Berlin Strings.

Can't wait to see how they approach it. :D


----------



## quantum7

Agreed- nice demos...both of you.


----------



## Enyak

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

@Simon

That's exactly the style of demo I want to hear. And great job on the actual demo too! I love the strained, emotional quality of the violins. Any chance you can post some stems? Would love to hear the violins and celli isolated. Again, great job.

UPDATE: Also, is there any kind of processing (EQ, reverb setup) on the demo? I have to say this demo is really selling me in BST, even though I can hear the mentioned bass bump.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Enyak @ Sun Dec 29 said:


> @Simon
> 
> That's exactly the style of demo I want to hear. And great job on the actual demo too! I love the strained, emotional quality of the violins. Any chance you can post some stems? Would love to hear the violins and celli isolated. Again, great job.
> 
> UPDATE: Also, is there any kind of processing (EQ, reverb setup) on the demo? I have to say this demo is really selling me in BST, even though I can hear the mentioned bass bump.



Yes there is EQ - I add some highend and take something out at around 1.5khz and 8khz on the violins, something similar on the rest of the strings.

Here are two stems, one with violins, one with violas and cellos. Both without added reverb. I only used the tree mics.

http://www.simonravn.com/media/BST-vlns.mp3
http://www.simonravn.com/media/BST-vlascls.mp3


----------



## DenisT

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Great demos guys, thanks for sharing!


----------



## Sid Francis

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Yes, thanks to the both of you, nice work, and very good sound. BST really add a new colour to the palette and I like it a lot.


----------



## Vik

Dan Mott @ 25.12.2013 said:


> feck @ Wed Dec 25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dan Mott @ Tue Dec 24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you guys who bought it early, post something naked? :D l
> 
> 
> 
> The Berlin demos are naked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean demo. There is only one demo that is naked and it's all short notes.
> 
> want to hear some nice emotive sustains naked.
Click to expand...


In the beginning of the Legato video it says "Out of the box sound, no additional reverb used". Doesn't that mean that it's pretty naked?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2P3Mij7_U8


----------



## ChrisAxia

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I finally had a chance to play around with the library, and so far I can echo what Simon said. There is a slight issue with noise build up, and a few transition tuning issues (which I'm sure will be resolved in a future update) but the tone and expression are so nice, that I can forgive OT for this. I've been an Adagio user since it was released and I did some back to back comparisons with the violins. 

Berlin strings have slightly more top end 'air', and while I have had great results with Adagio, the Berlin legato is more 'fluid' and the range of dynamics in the legato patches cannot be compared. The dynamic range in the Berlin legatos is phenomenal. I'm really looking forward to using this library properly next week!

Thank you Hendrik and team!

~Chris


----------



## Enyak

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

@Simon

Thanks a lot for the stems / info! That's really sounding rather real, isn't it? And not just real but musical too in the legato. I am sold.


----------



## SF_Guy

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I've got to chime in too. 

I finally had some time to play around with the library. I own Hollywood Strings and Adagio, and while they definitely have their strong points, I believe that Berlin Strings is the sound I've been looking for - so much so that I just picked up the rest of the Berlin instruments.

I also really like the Spitfire libraries (and am curious about Mural), however, I think the Orchestral Tools sound is a better fit for what I do. Now bring on Berlin Brass and Percussion!


----------



## Walid F.

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



SF_Guy @ Sun Dec 29 said:


> ... however, I think the Orchestral Tools sound is a better fit for what I do.



Same here actually. Although there are things no other developer other than SF can achieve  



SF_Guy @ Sun Dec 29 said:


> Now bring on Berlin Brass...



Mmmmhmmm. :D


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Here's a small test of the faked sordinos:

http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-BST-Castaway.mp3

I only used legatos for the 1st vlns and cellos - rest are regular sustains so perhaps the legato sound could be improved a bit - on the other hand I think the legato transitions sometimes get in the way of the sound consistency so it's a delicate balance with pros and cons on both sides.


----------



## Frankly-h

Sounds beautiful Simon.


----------



## Walid F.

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Simon Ravn @ Sun Dec 29 said:


> Here's a small test of the faked sordinos:
> 
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-BST-Castaway.mp3
> 
> I only used legatos for the 1st vlns and cellos - rest are regular sustains so perhaps the legato sound could be improved a bit - on the other hand I think the legato transitions sometimes get in the way of the sound consistency so it's a delicate balance with pros and cons on both sides.



Oh wow.. that is very beautiful ... :o Could maybe have used a bit higher dynamics towards the end there, felt like it needed some more power. But very convincing sordinos!!


----------



## Arbee

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

The overall tone of this library, to my ears, is very, very impressive (OK, I'll say it - an early call but probably the best I've heard from any library to date). Will be interested to see how the various technical aspects come to rest with folk as it gets bedded in and extended. Thanks for sharing your early experiences.

.


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

How much hard disc does Berlin Strings take? Is it the 121 GB compressed?

And does anyone know what is the price outside of Europe after Jan. 3rd? I can't find that on the website. EDIT: I see the price now 839 Euros.

Thanks


----------



## DenisT

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I must admit this library sounds great!

The only thing I regret are the section sizes (for what I need).


----------



## brunodegazio

*demo - Fantasia on Greensleeves (revised)*

Demo using Berlin Strings, from R.Vaughan-Williams arrangement of the well-known melody. Slightly revised from my earlier posting for a better balance between the divisi strings and melodic instruments. 

https://soundcloud.com/bruno-degazio/01-1


----------



## kawaivpc1

It sounds pretty awesome...


----------



## Vik

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

I searched for Berlin Strings in Soundcloud and found this:
https://soundcloud.com/harmonicstation/ ... in-strings

It says "A sampling of Comfort Ye from Handel's "Messiah" using Berlin Strings by Luke Everson" in the comment field, but the strings sound like they come from a real orchestra to me.


----------



## Steve Martin

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Hi Vik,

thanks for posting this link. What a great performance! Luke Everson has done a great job with the performance here. The Strings sound just great! Amazing sampling of the strings Hendrik!

best,

Steve :D


----------



## AC986

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Vik @ Mon Dec 30 said:


> but the strings sound like they come from a real orchestra to me.



You think?

I think it's good rendition of a Handel and sounds like fun. I would me more interested in less of this classical mock up crap and get some contemporary stuff out there with this library. Doing classical mock ups is just such a waste of time especially of you know the works well.


----------



## Vik

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



adriancook @ 31.12.2013 said:


> Vik @ Mon Dec 30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but the strings sound like they come from a real orchestra to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You think?
> 
> I think it's good rendition of a Handel and sounds like fun. I would me more interested in less of this classical mock up crap and get some contemporary stuff out there with this library. Doing classical mock ups is just such a waste of time especially of you know the works well.
Click to expand...

I find an orchestral mockup like this very useful, because the strings aren't drowning in many layers, a lot of reverb or many other instruments. And I think so even if I'm not going to use it for classical mockups.  But I'm very interested in more contemporary stuff as well/the kind of demos provided by Spitfire/LASS. I'm probably among these people who may order Vienna within a few hours (tax detection!) if OT or someone else posts a a few demotracks/walkthroughs...


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*

Hey Guys,

thanks Simon, Bruno and Vik for posting the user demos sofar.
I think they give a honest view about the sound of Berlin Strings. 

Here are two additional official demos.
The first is a composition of mine in a full orchestral arrangement and the second is a mock-up of Aase's Death from Griegs Peer Gynt Suite No.1.
My friend Sascha Knorr realised it only with the legato patches of Berlin Strings with active Con Sordino Simulation. 
Please take note especially of the dynamic range as well as the different attacks from soft to accented.

Hope you enjoy the demos. More will come soon!

*Aerial Boarding* by Hendrik Schwarzer
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F127279202&secret_url=false[/flash] 


*Aase's Death* mockup made by Sascha Knorr
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_aases_death.mp3[/mp3]

Happy new year and thanks for such a successfull 2013 and everyone who trust into our sampling project and philosphy!

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## AC986

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + 2 OFFICIAL DEMOS POSTED]*

It's a good sounding string library and when, like all these libraries, it has any issues ironed out then it's going to be close between this and another one coming out soon.

Great action track from Hendrik. Just a little strange sounding Con Sord in there somewhere. But what a great track.


----------



## Graham Keitch

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



adriancook @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> Vik @ Mon Dec 30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but the strings sound like they come from a real orchestra to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would me more interested in less of this classical mock up crap and get some contemporary stuff out there with this library.
Click to expand...


Sounds like Adrian has already had a few too many gins this evening - and can probably be forgiven as it is New Years Eve! :oops: 

I'm quite sure OT would not wish their excellent library to be seen as something of interest to keyboard bashing contemporary 'musicians' only!

Graham :wink:


----------



## BenG

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + 2 OFFICIAL DEMOS POSTED]*

Amazing demo Hendrik! Berlin Strings sound great.
Happy new year to you, Sacha, Tobias and the rest of the OT team!


----------



## AC986

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Graham Keitch @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> adriancook @ Tue Dec 31 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vik @ Mon Dec 30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but the strings sound like they come from a real orchestra to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would me more interested in less of this classical mock up crap and get some contemporary stuff out there with this library.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like Adrian has already had a few too many gins this evening - and can probably be forgiven as it is New Years Eve! :oops:
> 
> I'm quite sure OT would not wish their excellent library to be seen as something of interest to keyboard bashing contemporary 'musicians' only!
> 
> Graham :wink:
Click to expand...


Graham I have NOTHING against classical music. Au contraire. But it TELLS ME ABSOLUTELY nothing in real world usage on what it is actually going to be like vis a vi the kind of stuff most of us do.
Well aware that you like to do particularly choral work and that is great, but actual classical mock ups just are not going to help that many users make buying decision IMO.

I hate to say it, but this library needs a Daniel or a Guy to do a video.


----------



## Graham Keitch

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + 2 OFFICIAL DEMOS POSTED]*

+1

Edit The plus one referred to the quality off the demo - but I agree with Adrian, I'm missing a good detailed walk through.

Adrian, I too have been concerned at the lack of demos but the one just posted by Hendrik does address this to some extent. Although contemporary and cinematic, its compositional roots are very much in the style of music that was well established over 100 yrs ago and is by my reckoning classical(ish) albeit very different to Handel.

Can't get the demo by SK to play though.

Graham


----------



## pavolbrezina

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + 2 OFFICIAL DEMOS POSTED]*



Graham Keitch @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> Can't get the demo by SK to play though.



Yeah I am unable to play it too.


----------



## wqaxsz

http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_aases_death.mp3 (http://www.orchestraltools.com/download ... _death.mp3)


----------



## parnasso

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + 2 OFFICIAL DEMOS POSTED]*

I find the death of Aase quite extraordinary... I'm not yet sure what to think of the sordino simulation but the expressiveness, the detailed yet deep and cohesive sound and the vibrato curves are really impressive, I don't know if I have already heard such a good result with sampled strings prior to this. There are a few transitions and note endings here and there that may still need a little improvement but altogether it sounds extremely natural to my ears.
But then again I'm only a pianist, I'd be curious to hear the opinion of a professional string player on this... but anyway, congratulations Sascha, I'm impressed!!


----------



## kawaivpc1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + 2 OFFICIAL DEMOS POSTED]*

Aase's Death demo has few mistakes. I can hear cello or viola's dynamic change errors in some section and right before the ending part, violin fortissimo comes a little faster than other parts. And I think the same vibrato repetition on that part makes it sound more MIDI... nonetheless, I think It's great. I would've been nicer if the whole thing sounded softer. I guess that can be solved by using more reverb. 
Overall, it's not bad. 
But I really want to hear you guys doing 
*Karl Jenkins - Palladio III Presto* and *Ennio Morricone - Deborah's Theme*. I just want to hear how close it can make. Darn, if you guys just give me this library, I will make mockups for ya! lol
Congrats and Happy new year! o-[][]-o


----------



## pavolbrezina

wqaxsz @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_aases_death.mp3



Little bit unnatural sounding transitions IMHO


----------



## AC986

pavolbrezina @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> wqaxsz @ Tue Dec 31 said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_aases_death.mp3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Little bit unnatural sounding transitions IMHO
Click to expand...


Some of that track sounds real.

A little and some strangeness in the mutes. Graininess on the tailends. But not that much though. It's going to be a tight decision in a couple of months because that is very good IMO and I would reiterate any issues like e.g. transitions, are taken care of by then, they could have a serious contender on their hands. Good luck to them.


----------



## kawaivpc1

Exactly, some part has too drastic dynamic controls and decresendo part sound very unnatural due to bad CC programming. It sounds like he drew each CC dynamics differently for each section while some sections must work together. And some section remain cellos and violas with bad decresendo... The fortissimo part should be separated more with a little vibrato given to the ending note only. I wish I can fix them lol


----------



## Ian Dorsch

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> thanks Simon, Bruno and Vik for posting the user demos sofar.
> I think they give a honest view about the sound of Berlin Strings.
> 
> Here are two additional official demos.
> The first is a composition of mine in a full orchestral arrangement and the second is a mock-up of Aase's Death from Griegs Peer Gynt Suite No.1.



Fantastic piece, Hendrik! Beautiful writing, and the strings sound lovely and quite convincing.

I can't say that any of the classical mockups are doing an effective job of selling the library to me--in such familiar pieces, it's hard to separate flaws in the interpretation and performance from flaws in the library, and the interpretation and performance inevitably leave a little something to be desired.


----------



## zacnelson

I have to save that Arse's Death track would have to be one of the hardest tests of any sampled strings library - if anything is going to expose the `fake' nature of samples then this kind of track will! So the effectiveness of the result is highly commendable.


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + 2 OFFICIAL DEMOS POSTED]*

Great demo, Hendrik. That's sounding really nice. These violins have the tone I've been wanting.

M.


----------



## Ian Dorsch

zacnelson @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> I have to save that Arse's Death track would have to be one of the hardest tests of any sampled strings library - if anything is going to expose the `fake' nature of samples then this kind of track will! So the effectiveness of the result is highly commendable.



It's well done for sure. But with this type of mockup, all I can hear is things that I would like to change, with no clear idea of whether or not those changes would be achievable with the library.

The Comfort Ye example posted earlier is particularly excruciating, although I am certain it was created by a talented person with the best of intentions. :D


----------



## kdm

For Hendrik, or anyone who has Berlin Strings - what kind of system would you say is needed to run a full template of all sections with a single mic position? Two or more mics?


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + 2 OFFICIAL DEMOS POSTED]*

Hello Hendrik & Sascha,

Thank You for your new demos, they sound fantastic, well done o/~ 

Would love to hear more  

I look forward to become a Berlin Strings user during Q-1 2014. 

Have a Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous New Year o-[][]-o 

Muziksculp


----------



## brunodegazio

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + 2 OFFICIAL DEMOS POSTED]*

Great demos, Hendrick. Would Sasha consider posting the midi for Aaase's Death? It would be a very educational tutorial on the use of Berlin strings.

Thanks, and happy new year

Bruno


----------



## brunodegazio

*2nd Violins - tick in note D3*

Hi Hendrick 

I've noticed a loud tick at the beginning of the 2nd Violins Immediate D3. The exact sample file with the tick is :

violin2_sus_imm_norm_50-99-D3-TREE.ncw

I can localize the tick to about 5700 samples from the start of the file. 

It's a little strange though that I can hear it quite loudly but I cannot see any discontinuity in the waveform, so the possibility exists that it is just a hard drive error. Can someone else please confirm?

- bruno


----------



## Jordan Gagne

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> thanks Simon, Bruno and Vik for posting the user demos sofar.
> I think they give a honest view about the sound of Berlin Strings.
> 
> Here are two additional official demos.
> The first is a composition of mine in a full orchestral arrangement and the second is a mock-up of Aase's Death from Griegs Peer Gynt Suite No.1.
> My friend Sascha Knorr realised it only with the legato patches of Berlin Strings with active Con Sordino Simulation.
> Please take note especially of the dynamic range as well as the different attacks from soft to accented.
> 
> Hope you enjoy the demos. More will come soon!
> 
> *Aerial Boarding* by Hendrik Schwarzer
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F127279202&secret_url=false[/flash]
> 
> 
> *Aase's Death* mockup made by Sascha Knorr
> [mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/download/bst_aases_death.mp3[/mp3]
> 
> Happy new year and thanks for such a successfull 2013 and everyone who trust into our sampling project and philosphy!
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Dat brass.


----------



## thebob

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> Aase's Death from Griegs Peer Gynt Suite No.1.



cool, I didn't remind that this was from Grieg. 
I thought these 3 magical opening chords that turn my blood into ice belonged to Deathprod' "Treetop Drive 3" piece : 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzlueX4B1Z4 (@ 7'00)


----------



## HardyP

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



adriancook @ 2013-12-31 said:


> I would me more interested in less of this classical mock up crap and get some contemporary stuff out there with this library. Doing classical mock ups is just such a waste of time especially of you know the works well.


Weird arguing… isn´t it in fact better to do demos in well known pieces, in order to have a comparison?! With a genuine piece, even the weak parts of a lib can be used and presented in a favorable way.
Anyhow, I appreciate OT´s approach to deliver both ways of demos; and congrats to Henrik and Sascha for these really amazing ones!!


----------



## AC986

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



HardyP @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> Weird arguing… isn´t it in fact better to do demos in well known pieces, in order to have a comparison?!



If you're into doing classical mockups all the time then a classical mockup is probably great help. But with a classic you are taking it straight from a score where the articulations are already in stone. 

A piece like Hendriks is far more useful as a guide to what the majority of people use these tools for IMO.


----------



## HardyP

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + INTRO PRICE]*



adriancook @ 2014-01-02 said:


> But with a classic you are taking it straight from a score where the articulations are already in stone.
> 
> A piece like Hendriks is far more useful as a guide to what the majority of people use these tools for IMO.


I see what you mean; and it´s the reason I appreciate them doing both .
My point was: In order to judge a lib´s (overall) quality, it´s good to see how the performance is with "articulations in stone", as you rightly named it! Whereas Hendriks piece, you don´t know if he used just the articulations which are shimmering anyhow 8).

OK, back to topic now


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + 2 OFFICIAL DEMOS POSTED]*

thanks for your nice remarks about my demo!

To me it seems, some of you might not quite understand the purpose of those classical demos here. They are not there to claim 100% realism or a concert-ready performed interpretation, altough I for myself find them quite convincing. We should still look at them as midi mock-ups. We provided them for some other reason. That is to give people a reference to something they know or can compare to a real recording. In the case of the Grieg, its the Con Sordino simulation and the dynamics/expression of the samples. The Tchaikovsky we decided to do, to show Berlin Strings (and also BWW) in a busy fully-orchestrated situation and again, I haven't heard another mock-up of that piece, that sounds that energetic, big and still quite transparent. I don't know, if you have the Mackerras/LSO Nutcracker version at hand. This was Sascha's reference for his mock-up, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback. More demos will follow soon.

Best, Hendrik


----------



## Vik

Ian Dorsch @ 31.12.2013 said:


> zacnelson @ Tue Dec 31 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Comfort Ye example posted earlier is particularly excruciating, although I am certain it was created by a talented person with the best of intentions. :D
Click to expand...

English isn't my native language, so I had to loop up excruciating... I listened to the Comfort Ye on my Sennheiser HD650s and my Genelec 1032s, and the strings sounds good (not as a replacement for an orchestral version; I'm just talking about the very sound of the mics, preamps, instruments and room) in both cases. Of course I trust my pro headphones and studio monitors, and not some cheap headphones. 

Listening to the same demo on using my iPhone headphones wasn't convincing at all...
IMP almost all demos can be useful. Since the price offer expires tomorrow (when tomorrow, btw?), I'd like to hear as many demos as possible, since I'd like to buy both Spitfire, Berlin, LASS and CineStrings now. Anything 'naked', eg. just the strings from some of the other demos, would be very interesting, and anything which includes use of adaptive legato in a polyphonic context, preferably without any brass, percussion etc.

Has there been set any timeframe for when the expansion libraries will be released?


And - will Berlin Strings run on a computer with 16 gb without any severe problems? 

One member here mentioned that he uses Berlin Strings on a Mac Book Pro with success, but happens when we add expansion libraries or eg. Sordinos, Sul Pont and Harmonics from other libraries? 

Is it possible to purge (all) unused samples/articulations/layers?

Will there be any walkthroughs at all before the intro offer has gone?


----------



## Ian Dorsch

Vik @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> Ian Dorsch @ 31.12.2013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zacnelson @ Tue Dec 31 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Comfort Ye example posted earlier is particularly excruciating, although I am certain it was created by a talented person with the best of intentions. :D
> 
> 
> 
> English isn't my native language, so I had to loop up excruciating... I listened to the Comfort Ye on my Sennheiser HD650s and my Genelec 1032s, and the strings sounds good (not as a replacement for an orchestral version; I'm just talking about the very sound of the mics, preamps, instruments and room) in both cases. Of course I trust my pro headphones and studio monitors, and not some cheap headphones.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I think we are in agreement that the sound is fine, provided that you can successfully divorce the raw sound of the demo from the interpretation and performance of the actual music.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [RELEASED + 2 OFFICIAL DEMOS POSTED]*

Hey Guys,

I´m happy to add two additional demos of Berlin Strings.

*Passing Seasons* by Ben Botkin
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_passing_seasons.mp3[/mp3]

*And Now the News* by Craig Sharmat
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_and_now_the_news.mp3[/mp3]

Thanks to Ben and Craig for their great compositions!

BTW the intro special will end tomorrow. Last chance to place your order for the reduced price.

All the best,

Hendrik


----------



## benmrx

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

Great Demos! Furthur proof (for me anyways) that this is _thee_ strings library!


----------



## Ian Dorsch

Craig's demo put a huge smile on my face.


----------



## jim2b

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

Mine too!!

Nice work Craig! Kudos to Ben as well! Great stuff!

Jim


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

Craig,

your demo is so very very good! I love it!


----------



## blougui

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

Oh my !
Great great work !
All of you !


----------



## quantum7

I loved the demo from Ben Botkin. Craig's was good, but with so much going on I had a harder time focusing on the strings. Berlin Strings definitely belongs in the top 5 string libs to date IMO.


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

Damn you guys. You made me buy it :D


----------



## XcesSound

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

Ben Botkins demo is the fav one I've heard on the library yet. Actually, it reminds me of a fragment from a piece of mine I wrote 2 years ago. Listen from 1'55'' onwards. At least the first 3 notes of the melody are the same... :D good comparison between sample and live for me. It's fairly close.

https://soundcloud.com/xcessound/epilogue-excerpt


----------



## brunodegazio

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

Hendrick, compliments to you on your Aerial Boarding demo. I gave it a second listen today and found the string writing superb. Bravo. A very nice demonstration of many of the musical features of the library too. 

- bruno


----------



## BenG

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*



XcesSound @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> Ben Botkins demo is the fav one I've heard on the library yet. Actually, it reminds me of a fragment from a piece of mine I wrote 2 years ago. Listen from 1'55'' onwards. At least the first 3 notes of the melody are the same... :D good comparison between sample and live for me. It's fairly close.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/xcessound/epilogue-excerpt



Wow, beautiful music. Bravo!


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*



Mahlon @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> Damn you guys. You made me buy it :D


You won't regret it, trust me. :mrgreen:


----------



## Pianistikboy

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

Wow, indeed, Ben Botkin's demo greatly shows the expressiveness of the berlin strings library. Thanks to Hendrik Schwarzer for this amazing library. 
I really love the realism in this piece but the only passage that sounds fake to me is in the middle of the track (after the 2nd cymbal roll) when the first violins are playing louder in a higher register. The phrase played is very well done regarding to the crescendos and decrescendos, but it doesn't sounds real compared to the softer playing. However it seems to be a very good library.


----------



## Waywyn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

Just mentioned it somewhere else. Those strings seriously sound amazing!!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Thanks so much, Alex and erveryone here for the great feedback!


----------



## constaneum

Hendrik. I'm astonished by the superb quality !! So looking forward to the Soloist expansion as i've been looking for really good sounding and playability solo strings library. Hopefully it can be released ASAP. Dieing for it. >.<


----------



## jensos

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

@Orchestral Tools:
I know this is a weird request, but I would love to have a listen to the demos in the "Conceptualizing" video without the voices. In particular, it would be very interesting for me to hear the one at ~04:00 (- simple though it may seem -) in isolation. Would you mind making this available?

And another question: Is there any chance the brass in Hendik's demo will ever be part of a future "Berlin Brass" library?

Just asking...


----------



## Vik

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*



jensos @ 3.1.2014 said:


> @Orchestral Tools:
> I know this is a weird request, but I would love to have a listen to the demos in the "Conceptualizing" video without the voices.


That's not a weird request.  I'd like some more naked demos as well...


----------



## BenBotkin

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

In case anyone's interested, I wrote a second BST demo yesterday, "Chasing Adventure," featuring some of the short articulations in the context of a more adventurous setting. I thought some of you might be interested in hearing another demo before the introductory price runs out... today. 

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F127642271&secret_url=false[/flash]


----------



## renegade

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*



BenBotkin @ Fri 03 Jan said:


> In case anyone's interested, I wrote a second BST demo yesterday, "Chasing Adventure," featuring some of the short articulations in the context of a more adventurous setting. I thought some of you might be interested in hearing another demo before the introductory price runs out... today.
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F127642271&secret_url=false[/flash]



Nice  ...the other one too...

EQ, reverb or just "out of the box"?


----------



## Ian Dorsch

Dang, that is really excellent work.


----------



## zacnelson

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*



XcesSound @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Ben Botkins demo is the fav one I've heard on the library yet. Actually, it reminds me of a fragment from a piece of mine I wrote 2 years ago. Listen from 1'55'' onwards. At least the first 3 notes of the melody are the same... :D good comparison between sample and live for me. It's fairly close.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/xcessound/epilogue-excerpt



Gorgeous music! Immaculate


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*



BenBotkin @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> In case anyone's interested, I wrote a second BST demo yesterday, "Chasing Adventure," featuring some of the short articulations in the context of a more adventurous setting. I thought some of you might be interested in hearing another demo before the introductory price runs out... today.
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F127642271&secret_url=false[/flash]



Also a nice demo but I am not so sure about the attacks of the short notes? 

I think there is another patch in the library for playing this short notes to sound like awaited für this kind of playing?


----------



## BenBotkin

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

Thanks guys! As far as FX and processing, I added some reverb from EW's SPACES, but that was it. No compressing or EQing or anything.


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

So what size SSD are would be best for Berlin Strings? 256 gb drive would just barely make it, right? Can it be split over multiple drives?


And by the way, what does the "T" in BST stand for? Teldex?
M.


----------



## FriFlo

BS would be Bullshit, so they use Berlin STrings as short form. Really unnecessary IMO! I will continue to call it BS.


----------



## kawaivpc1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

This beats EWQL Hollywood Strings


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*



kawaivpc1 @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> This beats EWQL Hollywood Strings



Beats?

I think it is very great to have all the different sounding libs, so you can use what works best with/for your music... . 

This library sounds absolutely great, but the EW lib sounds also absolutely great! How boring it would be if everything sounds the same!

o-[][]-o


----------



## BenBotkin

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

Mahlon, I bought a I bought a 256GB SSD thinking that Berlin Strings would fill most of it, but it only takes up 115GB when installed. 

I downloaded BST through the continua downloader to a different drive and it took up 229GB with the installation and the packed rars. I then transferred the installed folders to my SSD and left the RARs on a storage drive.


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMOS + INTRO PRICE ENDS TOMORROW]*

Thanks so much. That's what I needed to know.

M.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

Hey Guys,

there is a new demo composed by Blakus (Blake Robinson).
Thanks so much for the great composition, Blake!

Strings are Berlin Strings, WWs are Berlin Woodwinds.

*Sky Passage* by Blakus
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bst_sky_passage.mp3[/mp3]

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## germancomponist

Very nice!


----------



## DenisT

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

Wonderful!
Good job Blake


----------



## Richard Bowling

Very impressive piece Blake! Stellar job.


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

That Blake is just a demon with strings! I love the tone of BST. 

o-[][]-o


----------



## quantum7

Great piece, Blakus! The tone of BST reminds me a bit of Vienna's Appassionatta Strings.


----------



## kawaivpc1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

great job o/~ o/~ o/~


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

I'm going to say they remind me a bit of the tone in Patrick Doyle's _Mary Shelley's Franskenstein_. A tight, present sound with the airiness still there. Whatever though, they sound great.


----------



## kawaivpc1

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

please do 15% off sale! 
o-[][]-o


----------



## FriFlo

Meanwhile, I did not have the time to really work with BS, but I played around with all patches. Everything works and sounds great to me. I just have a problem with the playable runs patch: in some transitions, there are some squeaky noises, that destroy a clean sound of the run. Of course I understand, that the patch is also not clean by design, but the squeaky noises I am talking about do not fall in the category "sounding natural". They just mask the tonality of the intended run. Maybe I will post some examples later, if you are not sure what I mean.
@OT: could that be repaired or does it have to be re-recorded?
@BS-users: did you guys also notice that?


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

@FriFlo: I haven't encountered that problem sofar.
Can you write an e-mail to support at orchestraltools .com about which patch it is and which tone/ transitions it is? This way we can write it in our bug tracker for the next update.

Best, Hendrik


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*



kawaivpc1 @ Fri Jan 10 said:


> please do 15% off sale!
> o-[][]-o


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Jan 10 said:


> @FriFlo: I haven't encountered that problem sofar.
> Can you write an e-mail to support at orchestraltools .com about which patch it is and which tone/ transitions it is? This way we can write it in our bug tracker for the next update.
> 
> Best, Hendrik



I posted this on the OT Forum as well, but I would like to hear user opinions on this as well and I think not to many people have realized tzhe existence of the OT forum yet, so here we go:
I just used the 1st Violins Playable runs patch as it loads freshly, put CC1 to max position to make it loud and clear. Here is what I get with two chromatical runs. To make the problematic transition more ovious, I play it back and fourth a few time slowly afterwards.
First one is C#5 to D5, second one F'4 to G4. But there are really notes all over the place that sound weird like this.
https://soundcloud.com/friflo/bs-fast-runs-test


----------



## Blakus

Thanks guys. I had great fun working with Berlin Strings for this piece! Definitely an incredible library.


----------



## Allegro

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

Someone else here suggested BOSS (berlin orchestral samples strings). Sound way cooler imo.


----------



## OT_Tobias

@FriFlo: Please send me an email with the issues you found. I will make sure they get entered into our bug tracker so they can be fixed in the next update.


----------



## FriFlo

Oh, it is actually not a bug, I believe, because it is all over the place and you would have noticed it. Either it is some mistake happening on my system only, or this is really how it is supposed to sound like. Everyone can check and compare with the notes I mentioned and see, if he gets the same sound. But I can email you as well ...


----------



## jensos

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

FriFlo, thanks for posting this. I was questioning my sanity for a while  

I also get this very weird and disturbing effect on the "fast runs" in the 1st violins, but not in the 2nd violins nor the violas. It's there on all the minor and major second intervals.

I most definitely think of this as a bug, but I am totally confident that it will be gone with one of the next updates.

That said, I have to stress that the sound of this library is unbelievably beautiful that I don't really mind such glitches too much... After all, this is a very early version.


EDIT: I think it's probably caused by the "Intonation" automatism that kicks in the strongest when playing fast legatos. I'm saying this because I just noticed that the first chair of the 1st violins does not show this behaviour.


----------



## FriFlo

Good to know, that I am not the only one hearing a problem with artifacts in the fast runs. I got several PMs with people confirming the same problem. @OT: I would be great to hear some explanation, wether the sound in the link of my original post is some bug that only happens for some people or if it is rather the way it sounds for everyone.
In both cases, it would be great, if this problem could be resolved in the upcoming update.


----------



## star.keys

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*



FriFlo @ Fri Jan 10 said:


> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Jan 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @FriFlo: I haven't encountered that problem sofar.
> Can you write an e-mail to support at orchestraltools .com about which patch it is and which tone/ transitions it is? This way we can write it in our bug tracker for the next update.
> 
> Best, Hendrik
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I posted this on the OT Forum as well, but I would like to hear user opinions on this as well and I think not to many people have realized tzhe existence of the OT forum yet, so here we go:
> I just used the 1st Violins Playable runs patch as it loads freshly, put CC1 to max position to make it loud and clear. Here is what I get with two chromatical runs. To make the problematic transition more ovious, I play it back and fourth a few time slowly afterwards.
> First one is C#5 to D5, second one F'4 to G4. But there are really notes all over the place that sound weird like this.
> https://soundcloud.com/friflo/bs-fast-runs-test
Click to expand...


I can confirm that I experience this issue as well. Easy to reproduce. I think, this is when the script tries to switch between legato types on it's own. Also, usually the last note of runs plays late (almost like normal legato).


----------



## Justin Miller

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

Hendrik -- what brass library are you using in your strings demo? (horns)


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*



star.keys @ Tue Jan 14 said:


> FriFlo @ Fri Jan 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Jan 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @FriFlo: I haven't encountered that problem sofar.
> Can you write an e-mail to support at orchestraltools .com about which patch it is and which tone/ transitions it is? This way we can write it in our bug tracker for the next update.
> 
> Best, Hendrik
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I posted this on the OT Forum as well, but I would like to hear user opinions on this as well and I think not to many people have realized tzhe existence of the OT forum yet, so here we go:
> I just used the 1st Violins Playable runs patch as it loads freshly, put CC1 to max position to make it loud and clear. Here is what I get with two chromatical runs. To make the problematic transition more ovious, I play it back and fourth a few time slowly afterwards.
> First one is C#5 to D5, second one F'4 to G4. But there are really notes all over the place that sound weird like this.
> https://soundcloud.com/friflo/bs-fast-runs-test
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can confirm that I experience this issue as well. Easy to reproduce. I think, this is when the script tries to switch between legato types on it's own. Also, usually the last note of runs plays late (almost like normal legato).
Click to expand...

I don't think it has to do with switching between various legato types, as I have done my example with fast runs soloed.


----------



## Jem7

Nice demo Blakus! If whole thing had a bit more definition it will sound much better.


----------



## Blakus

Thanks mate! I should point out that I chose to use only the surround mics (farthest away) for this demo! I preferred a larger homogenous sound with more depth for this track. Berlin Strings is definitely capable of more definition with the other numerous closer mic positions.


----------



## jensos

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

Hi Blakus,

if you don't mind, I'd like to ask you a question about your use of BST. In your template video in which you use LASS, you showed how you have separate MIDI tracks for each of the sub-sections (FC, A, B, C) of each string section and separately play those in to create a more real-sounding string ensemble.

When using BST (which is not split up in the same way as LASS), do you simulate sub-sections using the transposition trick to be able to work in the same way? Or do you just use the library as-is, playing each section in only one go?

Thanks!!

P.S. The more I use BST the more I hope the fast legato problem in the 1st violins will be resolved soon. OT, please have a look at it!!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

Of course we´ll take a look on it and we try to find a solution for that in 1.1

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Jem7

Blakus @ 14/1/2014 said:


> Thanks mate! I should point out that I chose to use only the surround mics (farthest away) for this demo! I preferred a larger homogenous sound with more depth for this track. Berlin Strings is definitely capable of more definition with the other numerous closer mic positions.



I thought it was only the tree mics. Close enough


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*



> Of course we´ll take a look on it and we try to find a solution for that in 1.1
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Great! In the meantime I'd appreciate it,if you guys could just tell us, wether this is only a bug for some people or rather way it sounds on every system. I found it does more harm when you repeat a phrase (like my chromatic runs up and down), than having a run in one direction without any repetition. I still find those artifacts a little disturbing on single runs (more or less - depending on the transitions involved), but less so. maybe I am just expecting to much from this patch and the fast ostinatos will be more suitable for that kind of application. I would just like to know, how you guys see it.


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

The 16th note & triplet patch isn't keeping up with my host tempo. Anyone else having this? 

Tobias may I send you some issues I'm having with the library? Or would you rather me post them in here?


----------



## Blakus

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*



jensos @ Tue Jan 14 said:


> Hi Blakus,
> 
> if you don't mind, I'd like to ask you a question about your use of BST. In your template video in which you use LASS, you showed how you have separate MIDI tracks for each of the sub-sections (FC, A, B, C) of each string section and separately play those in to create a more real-sounding string ensemble.
> 
> When using BST (which is not split up in the same way as LASS), do you simulate sub-sections using the transposition trick to be able to work in the same way? Or do you just use the library as-is, playing each section in only one go?



I just use the library the way it is, no transposition tricks.


----------



## OT_Tobias

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

ETMuz: Please send your findings via email. Thanks!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [NEW DEMO by Blakus]*

Hey Guys,

just wanted to keep you updated on Berlin Strings. Today we closed the fixing and bug list for Berlin Strings 1.1. The main issues and features we´ll work on are the artifacts on the runs mode in the 1st violins, the hanging notes issue if the note off statement will not be sended by the sequencer and we would like to improve the sample starts of the legato transitions on the 1st Violins. They are fluid but sometimes it feels like the transition has to much time before the recorded transition really starts. Sometimes that feels like a "pumping" effect. I´m optimistic that we will sort that out, beside some other reported smaller bug fixes. We´ll also add the new* Ostinato Legato patches* and *more playable glissandi patches *for some other sections.
We shedule the release of 1.1 for the second week in february. So Berlin Strings 1.1 will be the main project for us in the next weeks :D 

I would like to thank everyone who wrote us e-mails with bug reports. We definitely take care about these reports. Forums are great but for these things, e-mails can help us a lot more as Tobias keep that organized with our bug tracker.

I worked on several compositions with Berlin Strings and I would like to share two newer compositions where all the strings are from Berlin Strings only (and WWs from BWW). After a few weeks working with them I can assure that our dream and vision of the expressiveness, overall sound aesthetics, flexibility and possibility of articulations really came to reality. 

The first demo I composed for our friends at Strezov Sampling and their upcoming Storm Choir 2. It´s a fantastic library btw and they blend well with our stuff with some reverb on it as they deliver a bunch of mic options. 
For more info check out their thread here: http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3762454&no=1#3762454.

*Inner Pictures* by Hendrik Schwarzer
https://soundcloud.com/hendrik-schwarzer/inner-pictures-sc2-demo

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F129692843&secret_url=false[/flash] 

The second composition I did is for a little impressions video of a theme park in Germany (Europa-Park). 




Hope you like it!

All the best,

Hendrik


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Smokin' great demo, Hendrik!

Congrats. 

.


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

That's a wonderful piece, Hendrik. All the libraries involved sound great.

EDIT: Both of them!


----------



## apessino

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Amazing work. The Theme Park piece sounds straight out of a 1980s big Hollywood movie. :D


----------



## muk

Ah, good old Europa Park. Always brings back warm memories  The Bluefire coaster is my favourite


----------



## star.keys

How's it progressing on the release of update this week guys? Can we expect fixes for all issues reported so far?


----------



## feck

star.keys @ Wed Feb 12 said:


> How's it progressing on the release of update this week guys? Can we expect fixes for all issues reported so far?


+1 - any update would be nice. There have been some bugs which have kept me from being able to use this in compositions. Hoping they get sorted out soon.


----------



## star.keys

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Any update on the release date for the update guys? Initially committed timeline was Jan 2013 (as announced during the pre-order timeframe), then it was changed to 2nd week of Feb.. what's your next estimate please?


----------



## OT_Tobias

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Hi folks,

we are very hard at work on the update; top priority.
Work is nearly done and we want the update to be ready by the end of the week. Then the new and revised content (15-20 GB) will go to NI for encoding. As soon as we get the files back from them, the update will be released.

We decided to not only include the new content (ostinato legato...), but also to do a thorough revamp of a lot of patches. You will find the legato even smoother with completely redone runs mode.
We also fixed a huge number of bugs; right now it looks good that we will be able to fix every reported issue in 1.1.
The update getting a much larger scope than previously planned has led to a longer time creating it. We think it is worth it, though, especially for all those of you with templates. BST 1.1 looks to be rock-solid 

Thanks for your patience!

Tobias
OT Support


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

*"You will find the legato even smoother with completely redone runs mode."*

And I find the legato already the smoothest among the libraries which I have. So that is icing on the cake. Really looking forward to this update because the library's scope is just fantastic, the tone is warm, the patches have character and blend well. Once the playability is consistent, I'll be a happy camper.

Mahlon


----------



## feck

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*



OT_Tobias @ Tue Feb 18 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> we are very hard at work on the update; top priority.
> Work is nearly done and we want the update to be ready by the end of the week. Then the new and revised content (15-20 GB) will go to NI for encoding. As soon as we get the files back from them, the update will be released.
> 
> We decided to not only include the new content (ostinato legato...), but also to do a thorough revamp of a lot of patches. You will find the legato even smoother with completely redone runs mode.
> We also fixed a huge number of bugs; right now it looks good that we will be able to fix every reported issue in 1.1.
> The update getting a much larger scope than previously planned has led to a longer time creating it. We think it is worth it, though, especially for all those of you with templates. BST 1.1 looks to be rock-solid
> 
> Thanks for your patience!
> 
> Tobias
> OT Support


You guys are awesome. Happy to invest in a company with this sort of work ethic. o-[][]-o


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*



feck @ Tue Feb 18 said:


> OT_Tobias @ Tue Feb 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> we are very hard at work on the update; top priority.
> Work is nearly done and we want the update to be ready by the end of the week. Then the new and revised content (15-20 GB) will go to NI for encoding. As soon as we get the files back from them, the update will be released.
> 
> We decided to not only include the new content (ostinato legato...), but also to do a thorough revamp of a lot of patches. You will find the legato even smoother with completely redone runs mode.
> We also fixed a huge number of bugs; right now it looks good that we will be able to fix every reported issue in 1.1.
> The update getting a much larger scope than previously planned has led to a longer time creating it. We think it is worth it, though, especially for all those of you with templates. BST 1.1 looks to be rock-solid
> 
> Thanks for your patience!
> 
> Tobias
> OT Support
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are awesome. Happy to invest in a company with this sort of work ethic. o-[][]-o
Click to expand...



+1


----------



## kavinsky

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Bump
Any news on the update?
I'd love to play with that ostinato legato thing. And there are few bugs holding me from using this brilliant library full-on.


----------



## jensos

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

OT says the programming part is finished, and they're waiting for NI to encode it. Should not be too long, but I'm waiting anxiously myself...


----------



## brunodegazio

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Hendrick (and other Berlin Strings users) - Which patch do you recommend for a basic alternating up-down (detaché) bowing? 

Portato has a good sound and is round-robin but the attack is too slow for all but very slow tempos. 

Sustain-Immediate has a nice unobtrusive attack and works great for detaché melodic figures at medium-fast tempos, but as there is no round robin it falls apart on repeated notes. 

The adaptive legato patch also has no round-robin and sometimes drops notes if they are repeated too quickly. 

Is there an included articulation that is meant for detaché?


----------



## brunodegazio

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

While I'm here, another question about using Berlin Strings -

In a certain software I'm using it is impossible (or at least very messy) to specify trill with the Trills Orchestrator, as two simultaneous notes. (It also messes up the transcription to score.)

Is there a way to specify directly whether a semi-tone or whole-tone trill is needed? A simple preset articulation with the correct type of trill would work fine. 

thanks


----------



## Blakus

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Some have been asking for exposed strings to my demo. Here's a walkthrough of my demo for Berlin Strings "Sky Passage". You can find exposed BST sections from the 10min mark.


----------



## Graham Keitch

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Thanks Blakus - very informative and I enjoyed listening to this.


----------



## Symfoniq

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Thank you for the informative video, Blakus. The track is fantastic, and you've confirmed that Berlin Strings will probably be my first venture outside the VSL ecosystem. I just love that Teldex sound, and Orchestral Tools seems to have come up with something special.

Keep the great videos coming.


----------



## aaronnt1

Yes, thanks for posting, very useful and sounds great.


----------



## Richard Bowling

Thanks Blakus for posting the video. Very nice.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Wonderful tutorial Blakus. Strings programming is great. one question - you use CC2 throughout (breath) - I don't see that reference in the manual. Can you explain the 'control'? Many thanks.


----------



## germancomponist

Great demo, Blakus!


----------



## Diffusor

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*



Rob Elliott @ Fri Mar 07 said:


> Wonderful tutorial Blakus. Strings programming is great. one question - you use CC2 throughout (breath) - I don't see that reference in the manual. Can you explain the 'control'? Many thanks.



I am assuming he is using CC2 to switch the different vibrato options.


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*



Diffusor @ Fri Mar 07 said:


> Rob Elliott @ Fri Mar 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wonderful tutorial Blakus. Strings programming is great. one question - you use CC2 throughout (breath) - I don't see that reference in the manual. Can you explain the 'control'? Many thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am assuming he is using CC2 to switch the different vibrato options.
Click to expand...



Ah - makes sense. I changed that to CC17 on first day of purchase. Thanks - just wanted to be sure I hadn't missed a 'control'. Superb library.


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Thanks, Blakus. Very much.

Mahlon


----------



## Blakus

Thanks guys. Glad it's useful! And yes, I've remapped vibrato control to CC2


----------



## Blakus

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Sorry for the spam! 
I did some speed writing today using Berlin Strings - just another example for anyone interested!
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F138662415&secret_url=false[/flash]
NoFlash: https://soundcloud.com/blakus-mfm/risen-blakus


----------



## Steve Martin

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Hi Blakus,

beaut composition and great use of the strings in your music here. Also loved your Berlin Orchestral Strings demo - superb!

thanks for sharing your music with us. Inspires me when I listen to your music!


best,

Steve :D


----------



## Sid Francis

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Wonderful sound, Blakus. Say: what is the solo instrument taking over the theme at 0.22" ? The Blakus Cello in a high register? Or Blakus on a Cello in a high register? :D


----------



## OT_Tobias

...or Blakus on the Blakus Cello in a high register.


----------



## Sid Francis

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

don´t cheat: that was option 1 ... :D


----------



## OT_Tobias

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

The 1st option leaves the possibility that is was the Blakus Cello in a high register, but not played by Blakus. I want to carry the motion to investigate whether the Blakus Cello was also PLAYED by Blakus the man himself.


----------



## Softmo06004

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Hey guys,
Did you see that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh0tIzXcuF8&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh0tIzXc ... e=youtu.be)

A sort of teasing for an upcoming product or update?


----------



## muk

Chamber music with three bassoons plus three contrabassoons playing in unison?


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Monster Woods. Love it.


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*



Rob Elliott @ Sun Mar 09 said:


> Monster Woods. Love it.



Yes! Sounds pretty cool!


----------



## Blakus

OT_Tobias @ Sun Mar 09 said:


> ...or Blakus on the Blakus Cello in a high register.
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F138662415&secret_url=false[/flash]
> NoFlash: https://soundcloud.com/blakus-mfm/risen-blakus


Haha, Sid/Tobias, @22secs is actually a custom instrument I've done with baked in vib samples


----------



## NYC Composer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Blake, your stuff is sounding great.

Are you still using a fair amount of B2, btw?


----------



## Saxer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Braaaam!


----------



## Blakus

Thanks!
Larry, yeah! B2 everywhere


----------



## NYC Composer

Blakus @ Sun Mar 09 said:


> Thanks!
> Larry, yeah! B2 everywhere



B2 really seems to be the deal, but I think you'd be fine with pretty much anything

to the topic- Berlin Strings sound awesome.

Still, I'd love a recent template overview if you get the time-cheers!


----------



## zacnelson

Blakus that was a gorgeous new track


----------



## Blakus

Larry: Yeah, I really love B2, and BST  I did post a "kinda" walkthrough on the previous page of this thread (just in case you missed it), but sometime soon I may do an updated full template walkthrough. I'm still in the middle of changing it though!

Zac: Thank you mate!


----------



## NYC Composer

Blakus @ Mon Mar 10 said:


> Larry: Yeah, I really love B2, and BST  I did post a "kinda" walkthrough on the previous page of this thread (just in case you missed it), but sometime soon I may do an updated full template walkthrough. I'm still in the middle of changing it though!



...and that was your fatal mistake! :wink: left me wanting more....


----------



## kavinsky

what about that update, guys? I appreciate your work but you have already pushed the deadline few times and now there's no news on it whatsoever.


----------



## NIGHTNEO

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

No information, we have to wait :(


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

I know its frustrating not having the update but in my experience with OT is it WILL be excellent. They will not hold it a second longer than needed. Sometimes it is hard to predict an exact release date with encoding AND sorting out last bugs/features. Really looking forward to it.


----------



## molemac

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Unless I have got it wrong , using cc2 to switch to vibrato on the legato patches only works at the beginning of a note . ie you cant introduce vibrato to an existing note from a non vibrato patch . This is the same with the Berlin Woodwinds and is really restricting .
Is there a way to get round this , is this something orchestral tools can look into in an update. It would tie in with other libraries that do this and be a much more realistic natural sound for expression . Otherwise you are stuck to the same vibrato intensity for each note . I play my legato strings through a wind controller with cc 1 for velocity crossfade and cc2 for vibrato so that the harder I blow not only does it get louder but also adds more vibrato intensity like a real player would . And much that I love the Berlin sound , winds and strings, I get more expression with other libraries . The recordings and samples are there , surely there must be a way of adding this feature to the KOntakt software.

Charlie


----------



## OT_Tobias

molemac: Please send me an email to support(at)orchestratools(dot)com with a description of how you think this could work and I will be happy to include it in the list for possible features in an update.


----------



## Daryl

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*



molemac @ Sun Mar 16 said:


> Unless I have got it wrong , using cc2 to switch to vibrato on the legato patches only works at the beginning of a note . ie you cant introduce vibrato to an existing note from a non vibrato patch.


Huh? You can't crossfade from non Vibrato to Vibrato? That needs to be addressed very quickly, as this is possible with other sample libraries. And in the real world, as well. :wink: 

D


----------



## Daryl

OT_Tobias @ Sun Mar 16 said:


> molemac: Please send me an email to support(at)orchestratools(dot)com with a description of how you think this could work and I will be happy to include it in the list for possible features in an update.


Ah, I see you've answered the criticism. For me the lack of this feature would be a deal breaker.

D


----------



## Diffusor

Daryl @ Sun Mar 16 said:


> OT_Tobias @ Sun Mar 16 said:
> 
> 
> 
> molemac: Please send me an email to support(at)orchestratools(dot)com with a description of how you think this could work and I will be happy to include it in the list for possible features in an update.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, I see you've answered the criticism. For me the lack of this feature would be a deal breaker.
> 
> D
Click to expand...


I don't know. Crossfading vibrato/non-vibrato never sounds that good or convincing to me.


----------



## Blakus

I really love that OT decided not to crossfade vibrato. The technique is definitely not a complex one, so the lack of it makes me think this was an intentional decision. I have no problems sculpting the expression I'm after with the selectable vibrato. It sounds much more convincing to me than crossfading.


----------



## Malo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

I'm also very happy that OT chose not to have crossfaded vibrato. I prefer the (sampled) musicians to decide when and how much to vibrate. 8)


----------



## Daryl

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*



Malo @ Mon Mar 17 said:


> I'm also very happy that OT chose not to have crossfaded vibrato. I prefer the (sampled) musicians to decide when and how much to vibrate. 8)


That would be fine if they knew what you were going to write in advance. :wink: 

D


----------



## Malo

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*



Daryl @ Mon Mar 17 said:


> Malo @ Mon Mar 17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also very happy that OT chose not to have crossfaded vibrato. I prefer the (sampled) musicians to decide when and how much to vibrate. 8)
> 
> 
> 
> That would be fine if they knew what you were going to write in advance. :wink:
> 
> D
Click to expand...


I write very predictable music... :mrgreen:


----------



## snattack

Blakus @ Sun Mar 16 said:


> I really love that OT decided not to crossfade vibrato. The technique is definitely not a complex one, so the lack of it makes me think this was an intentional decision. I have no problems sculpting the expression I'm after with the selectable vibrato. It sounds much more convincing to me than crossfading.



Maybe, but it's quite illogical to have the order Romantic - Senza - Molto imo. Any way to work around this?

/A


----------



## star.keys

OT team,

Where are you on the update guys?


----------



## brunodegazio

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*



> Maybe, but it's quite illogical to have the order Romantic - Senza - Molto imo. Any way to work around this?
> 
> ------------


 I wrote a little Kontakt multi-script to re-order the vibrato controller (in my case, the Mod Wheel) to make sense. Paste it into a multi-script slot in the Kontakt multi containing your Berlin Strings. Note that this script will change the Mod Wheel for ALL channels in the multi.


-------------------------------------------------------

on midi_in
if ($MIDI_COMMAND = $MIDI_COMMAND_CC and $MIDI_BYTE_1 = 1)

ignore_midi
select ( $MIDI_BYTE_2)
case 0 to 40 
set_midi($MIDI_CHANNEL,$MIDI_COMMAND_CC,1,64) { senza vibrato }
case 41 to 80 
set_midi($MIDI_CHANNEL,$MIDI_COMMAND_CC,1,127) { romantic vibrato }
case 81 to 127 
set_midi($MIDI_CHANNEL,$MIDI_COMMAND_CC,1,0) { heavy vibrato }
end select	
end if
end on


----------



## brunodegazio

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*



> I have no problems sculpting the expression I'm after with the selectable vibrato. It sounds much more convincing to me than crossfading.



How do you do this without re-attacking the note? Or maybe more to the point, without _hearing_ that the note was re-started?


----------



## Daryl

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*



brunodegazio @ Tue Mar 18 said:


> I have no problems sculpting the expression I'm after with the selectable vibrato. It sounds much more convincing to me than crossfading.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you do this without re-attacking the note? Or maybe more to the point, without _hearing_ that the note was re-started?
Click to expand...

That is the issue, along with the fact that the transitions always have vibrato, so that when you select the "without" option, you get the opposite of what it would be in the real world.

Anyway, I hope that when the current issues have been ironed out, maybe OT will consider allowing the crossfade option.

D


----------



## vosk

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

We all looking forward to update! How much longer to wait around? :roll: :oops:


----------



## star.keys

Absolutely... The idea of BST update is is beyond a joke now! Over 3 months of delay? That's plain ridiculous guys..


----------



## NIGHTNEO

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

No offence, but there is a quite lot of bugs at BST. Next major update of BST probably contains ostinato patches, therefore time is required more and more.
We do not have a way except believing 0oD


----------



## Blakus

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Here's a bit of Princess Leia for fun. 
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F143019423secret_url=false[/flash]
NoFlash: https://soundcloud.com/blakus-mfm/princ ... -star-wars


----------



## Jonas.Ingebretsen

Thanks for the nostalgia, Blakus. I feel that the strings don't fit in properly in the mix, is it just me? Horns sounds delicious!


----------



## Enyak

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Blakus, the Leia demo sounds terrific!

Can you elaborate a bit on what you did on spatializing / reverb?

I like everything except the strings sound a bit too reverbant to me. And I think that's coming from the library itself. I am not against spacious sounding strings, quite the opposote. but BST always sounds a bit wetter-than-wet to me.

But overall, you nailed the sound! The brass and percussion (celesta? glock?) mix together very well and sound properly spacialized to me too.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE INFO + MORE DEMOS POSTED]*

Hey Guys,

we´re proud to release *Berlin Strings 1.5*, which is one of the most extensive library updates we have made sofar.
A lot of work went into the improvements, new helpful features and our new *Ostinato Legato*, which by the way works fantastically as a fast legato as well!
The *14.7 GB additional sample material *also includes additional *Playable Glissandi* patches for Violas and Celli (an innovation of Orchestral Tools)
and a new *Whole Ensemble section *with the most essential articulations to give you a playable great sounding tool to sketch out your ideas.
For our Berlin Strings customers, the update will be free. You will receive your individual download mail today.

We made a short video screencast to show you the *new features of Berlin Strings 1.5*:



We would like to thank you for your patience. We know that we needed more time to finish all these improvements but we aimed to do it as best as possible.

To keep the improvements running in future: Please report bugs at [email protected]
Tobias organizes all important stuff in our bug tracking system. We can´t handle stuff with care if you post it here or anywhere else.
We need all reports in one place. Thanks!

*New Features:*

- New, improved Runs Transitions in all Adaptive Legato Patches

- Ostinato Arp Legato for 1st Violins

- Ostinato Arp Legato for Celli

- Playable Glissandi for Viola

- Playable Glissandi for Celli

- Whole Ensemble Patches
- Sus Imm
- Sus Soft
- Spiccato
- Pizzicato

- Mic Output Routing

- Panning Option for Concert Master Mic

- CC11 support for all Patches


*Improvements:*

- Note Off Bug resolved

- Improved Legato scripting

- Improved Release Samples (bad noises, etc)

- VC sfz Trills corrected Pitch

- Trills Orchestrator Vol. range improvement

- Scripting improvements for Dynamics Patches

- A LOT of minor bug fixing/ bad sample exchange


All the best,

Hendrik and the OT-Team


----------



## kosi

yess !
I'm really excited, the ostinato legato sounds yummy ! and CC11, at last 

thanks guys for your outstanding work !
you make my life a lot easier


----------



## Richard Bowling

over 14 gigs of update... wow. very nice


----------



## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

Looks fantastic.


----------



## NIGHTNEO

Congratu Hendrik!


----------



## star.keys

Does this finally work in Nuendo without hanging notes and freezes? If not, I wouldn't even care to download this thing.


----------



## handz

Great update, those new patches sounds fantastic.


----------



## Jonas.Ingebretsen

WOW! One could say that I'm... Trilled :D


----------



## germancomponist

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

As I said in another thread: OT will surprise you positively!

o-[][]-o


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

Awesome! Thank you! o-[][]-o 

Mahlon


----------



## Richard Bowling

**Very nice update. Played around with it all afternoon... It seems like some of the pitches on the violas_legato are "pitchy". Anyone else find this? ( violas leg were "pitchy" prior to the update - was hoping this would be tweaked)


----------



## kavinsky

this is very good news indeed. I'm pretty sure hanging notes are fixed, they mentioned it was on the bug list. 
Very well OT, despite the delay seems like it's going to be massive update,
thanks!

PS special thanks to mic output routing feature. I really wanted to eq tri's before, and its really great being able to do it.

*@Blakus*
sounds pretty nice, but there's one thing I'd like to discuss. When you're trying to emulate loure, do you hear that attacks of the repeated notes come quite slow? I've experienced that myself and now I hear it in your mockup. Perhaps the accented attack(high velocity) would do the trick, but it sounds really agressive at times, I wish there was one more attack option there. To lay those repetitions directly on beat.
So, basically, all I can argue about is dynamics, they sound somewhat "jumply" to me, maybe you're riding CC1 too hard?
Have you already used an updated version on that mockup?


----------



## The Darris

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

This is great, I sure can't wait for the BWW update too.


----------



## ETMuz

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

Thanks to OT! :D


----------



## Blakus

kavinsky @ Sat Apr 05 said:


> *@Blakus*
> sounds pretty nice, but there's one thing I'd like to discuss. When you're trying to emulate loure, do you hear that attacks of the repeated notes come quite slow? I've experienced that myself and now I hear it in your mockup. Perhaps the accented attack(high velocity) would do the trick, but it sounds really agressive at times, I wish there was one more attack option there. To lay those repetitions directly on beat.
> So, basically, all I can argue about is dynamics, they sound somewhat "jumply" to me, maybe you're riding CC1 too hard?
> Have you already used an updated version on that mockup?



I didn't spend very long programming this, just one take through playing in each part, so definitely can be improved. I'm also quite A.D.D with my cc1 :oops: 

I don't really have a problem with the attacks. There are 3 options, medium velocity is just a nice immediate attack without too much harshness. And that track isn't using the new update.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Great news! Thx Hendrik, Tobias etc


----------



## kavinsky

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

Here's some naked Cellos Ostinato Arp Legato.

https://soundcloud.com/kimsparx/orchest ... in/s-YxShq

Not exactly an ostinato line, but I like how expressive it plays it by itself, out of the box.
legato responds superquickly and attack of the separate notes is straight on beat, I love it. The only downside is that this qualities are present only in the upper register of the ensemble. It's more muddy and not as responsive in the lower register.

The 1st violins ostinato legato patch behaves better on the first look, its just my desperate love for cellos that always forces me to play with them first.

There's no reverb used, I just applied some eq to separate mics. Really nice they included this routing option, there's some muddy frequencies I always try to find and get rid of. Its pretty obvious that they sound really wet as they are. I had no luck bringing close mics forward to compensate for that, but I'm sure eventually I'll find a way to place them where they should be in the mix.

Overall, I'm pleased. There's something very beautiful and true to the sound of BST, I hope they will continue to develop it (unlike 8Dio) There's huge potential in this product, but it still needs some clever and measured refining. Most obvious bugs was fixed as far as I can tell. Looking forward to work with it.

Thanks to OT team. 

K


----------



## SeanM1960

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*



kavinsky @ Sat Apr 05 said:


> Here's some naked Cellos Ostinato Arp Legato.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/kimsparx/orchest ... in/s-YxShq



Man, that sounds sweet. Except for that knocking noise. WOW ... Sorry - things _that loud_ should never make it into a library.


----------



## Blakus

I can't hear the knocking noise you're referring to?


----------



## kavinsky

SeanM1960

Do you mean that low sound on every legato transition?
I think its pretty natural when it comes to cellos. the part itself is on the very top of their register, should be played by violas probably, but we don't have Ostinato legato patch in violas unfortunately 
To be honest, I don't really mind various noises here and there, it adds some realism imo. the only exception is when the artifacts are repeated.


----------



## SeanM1960

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*



Blakus @ Sun Apr 06 said:


> I can't hear the knocking noise you're referring to?



You don't hear them? How's that possible?



kavinsky @ Sun Apr 06 said:


> Do you mean that low sound on every legato transition?



No - I am talking about the knocking sound - it actually sounds as though someone hit the back of the bow into the body of the cello - it's that type of sound. First one is at about 8 sec., then two really loud and distracting ones at 11, then 12. Those sounds DO NOT add realism.


----------



## Blakus

I'm a cellist, I'm not trying to be rude, but that noise you are referring to is totally 100% natural. It's the sound of the bow digging in for a stronger attack at high dynamics. It is more noticeable in the extreme high register. Great realism.


----------



## ModalRealist

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*



SeanM1960 @ Sun Apr 06 said:


> No - I am talking about the knocking sound - it actually sounds as though someone hit the back of the bow into the body of the cello - it's that type of sound. First one is at about 8 sec., then two really loud and distracting ones at 11, then 12. Those sounds DO NOT add realism.



I'm afraid I'm not hearing anything there that I'm not really hearing throughout. Only listening on my recreational headphones at the moment. Have to say that, through these, that example sounds absolutely stunning. Switching between that and a cello-melody from a real recording, it's really rather impressive. Definitely amongst the best sampled strings I've heard.


----------



## Infiniquity

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*



SeanM1960 @ Sun Apr 06 said:


> Blakus @ Sun Apr 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't hear the knocking noise you're referring to?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't hear them? How's that possible?
> 
> 
> 
> kavinsky @ Sun Apr 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean that low sound on every legato transition?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No - I am talking about the knocking sound - it actually sounds as though someone hit the back of the bow into the body of the cello - it's that type of sound. First one is at about 8 sec., then two really loud and distracting ones at 11, then 12. Those sounds DO NOT add realism.
Click to expand...


I hear some in the Basses Sus Soft. Just wrote it in the Sample talk thread.
On the Celli sus soft, I'm testing it and I hear some : Note that even though for most of them it could be assimilated as "normal" performance but some are so loud that it gets really annoying, especially if you play this note repeatedly. 
Not asking for clean samples but a good solution would be a RRx2. Doubling the size of the library


----------



## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*



kavinsky @ Sat Apr 05 said:


> Here's some naked Cellos Ostinato Arp Legato.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/kimsparx/orchest ... in/s-YxShq
> 
> K



Really nice example. Have you tried layering these with _Fast Runs Legato_ for up tempo runs? You can get a really good sound this way. I like these new ostinato arp patches.

Mahlon


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## Daryl

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

For me, loading the ostinato legato patches crashes Kontakt; both plugin and standalone.

D


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## kavinsky

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*



Mahlon @ Sun Apr 06 said:


> Have you tried layering these with _Fast Runs Legato_ for up tempo runs?
> 
> Mahlon



I tried the main legato patch, and it just not nearly as good for this kind of stuff. But I can see myself combining them, there will be no harm in replacing some long notes with portamento, for extreme realism and expression. Fast runs legato is similar in quality, but I think it was made for really fast runs in the first place, nevertheless it sounds very interesting on mid-tempo things like this as well, a bit more agressive maybe.
But that ostinato patch is gold. They just nailed it, I tried nearly every modern string library, but it had always sounded too muddy and never on the beat.
I hope they will use it themselves for some time and will do some adjustments to really make it perfect.


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## jim2b

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

I'm also having a problem loading(and removing) the ostinato legato patches.
They either take 5 minutes, or completely hang.

Everything else sounds great.

Jim


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## Mahlon

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*



jim2b @ Sun Apr 06 said:


> I'm also having a problem loading(and removing) the ostinato legato patches.
> They either take 5 minutes, or completely hang.
> 
> Everything else sounds great.
> 
> Jim



I've only loaded them once (at the beginning of the day), and yes, they did take a long time to load for me, too.

Mahlon


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## Pedro Camacho

Great update!!!


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## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

Try batch resaving. Seems to improve load times here (although batch resave took forever.)


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## jamwerks

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

I don't yet have BST, but have an eye on it. I wonder if the ostinato-legato will ever make it to the V2's and Violas at some time? Those are the two guys that would typically have that role.


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## Blakus

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*



jamwerks @ Mon Apr 07 said:


> I don't yet have BST, but have an eye on it. I wonder if the ostinato-legato will ever make it to the V2's and Violas at some time? Those are the two guys that would typically have that role.



Yeah I'm hoping for that too - that's where I'd use them most!


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## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

Really great update. There are so many things to like about BST - just try playing the ensemble soft patch, puts a smile on your face. Such a great tone.

However, I can't help but feel there are still a big issue with the legatos. For slow playing, there are a lot of volume and timbre changes going on in the transitions from the legato interval to the sustains. Those problems stand out pretty clear when doing "intimate" work with the legatos. I think the workaround will be to use the standard sustains for this, which unfortunately of course will then be without the legato. 

There are also issues with the volume changing significantly going from one note to the next, i.e. the legato interval is played too loud, which also makes it hard to use the legato patches in a non-tutti setting with moderate/slow tempos. This happens mostly in the p/mp dynamics area and is note specific -- it doesn't happen with all intervals, far from it! It should be able to get fixed if you run through all the intervals at low dynamics (yeah, boring work I know...) and change the volumes accordingly.

Then there's a lot of good stuff - I love the dynamics patches! And the new ostinatos are great but yes, please give the same treatment to the V2's and VA's as already mentioned! I also think the short notes are pretty great, but haven't had a chance to use them much yet. And the hanging notes problem seems to be at least almost completely gone.

Now I just want to know when the first expansion is coming out... 8)


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## Guy Rowland

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*



Rob Elliott @ Mon Apr 07 said:


> Try batch resaving. Seems to improve load times here (although batch resave took forever.)



If batch resaving doesn't work and you're on Windows, check in Windows Explorer to see if the files on disk are encrypted / archived. If they are, the folder will appear green by default. This totally messes Kontakt up, making stuff take forever to load. You need to de-archive / de-compress - right click the folder / general / Advanced and uncheck "compress contents to save disk space" and "encrypt contents to secure data", then apply (it might take ages to perform the task). It sometimes happens with sample libraries where the download contains mac and PC information together and are unzipped as one.


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## Rob Elliott

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*



Simon Ravn @ Mon Apr 07 said:


> Really great update. There are so many things to like about BST - just try playing the ensemble soft patch, puts a smile on your face. Such a great tone.
> 
> However, I can't help but feel there are still a big issue with the legatos. For slow playing, there are a lot of volume and timbre changes going on in the transitions from the legato interval to the sustains. Those problems stand out pretty clear when doing "intimate" work with the legatos. I think the workaround will be to use the standard sustains for this, which unfortunately of course will then be without the legato.
> 
> There are also issues with the volume changing significantly going from one note to the next, i.e. the legato interval is played too loud, which also makes it hard to use the legato patches in a non-tutti setting with moderate/slow tempos. This happens mostly in the p/mp dynamics area and is note specific -- it doesn't happen with all intervals, far from it! It should be able to get fixed if you run through all the intervals at low dynamics (yeah, boring work I know...) and change the volumes accordingly.
> 
> Then there's a lot of good stuff - I love the dynamics patches! And the new ostinatos are great but yes, please give the same treatment to the V2's and VA's as already mentioned! I also think the short notes are pretty great, but haven't had a chance to use them much yet. And the hanging notes problem seems to be at least almost completely gone.
> 
> Now I just want to know when the first expansion is coming out... 8)




Spot on assessment Simon - all the way around. BEFORE the update (just a few days ago, I sent a message over to OT about the 'intimate' work you mentioned and Hendrik said they will work on that for sure. I too either use the sustains - or where an 'issue' disconnect that legato transition.

Having said this - I still LOVE this library - the tone, the liveliness, etc. If this library continues to be an 'ongoing growing' library in features, etc. - which I think OT will stay committed to - it will be the standard.


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## jim2b

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

Thanks Guy, but I am on a Mac. 3.3/6 core.

Jim


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## Craig Sharmat

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

do you have the latest Kontakt released March 18th?


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## jim2b

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

Hey Craig,

Thanks a million!! That really helped.

Jim


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## studioj

Thanks for the update OT. Love having the full ensemble patches for sketching but I'd love to see these with a no vibrato option, or vibrato control within the patch. If you agree please let OT know! thanks.


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## Blakus

Loving the update! Here's something different I made using Berlin Strings this afternoon! I love the expression in these samples. 

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F145293136&secret_url=false[/flash]
Link: https://soundcloud.com/blakus-mfm/kepler-glowwip


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## Simon Ravn

*Re: BERLIN STRINGS - Official Announcement [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED + Video]*

Awesome. This update could be just the spice I need for the film I am working on now - gotta pick it up


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## Diffusor

Blakus @ Fri Apr 18 said:


> Loving the update! Here's something different I made using Berlin Strings this afternoon! I love the expression in these samples.
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F145293136&secret_url=false[/flash]
> Link: https://soundcloud.com/blakus-mfm/kepler-glowwip



Seriously awesome! Good work. BS flaws aside, if people can't make good music with BS then they are doing something wrong.

What drums are you using on this track?


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## Blakus

Thanks Diffusor!

The drums are NI's studio drummer, though processed heavily.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Hey Guys,

just wanted to drop a note that a new update for Berlin Strings will arrive today.
Berlin Strings v.1.6 will fix the following things:

- volume cc7 bug fixed
- BowNoises are working now on all mic outputs
- 2nd Violins Octave Scale runs RAM bug solved
- minor bugfixes

All Berlin Strings owner will receive their downloadlinks today!

Best,

Hendrik


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## Rob Elliott

Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Jun 10 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> just wanted to drop a note that a new update for Berlin Strings will arrive today.
> Berlin Strings v.1.6 will fix the following things:
> 
> - volume cc7 bug fixed
> - BowNoises are working now on all mic outputs
> - 2nd Violins Octave Scale runs RAM bug solved
> - minor bugfixes
> 
> All Berlin Strings owner will receive their downloadlinks today!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Hendrik



Awesome Hendrik. Can't wait to hear it. Were you able to get the 'soft legato bumps' issue smoothed out?


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## DocMidi657

That's great as well Hendrick. Really appreciate it. Did you guys work out the issue I alerted Tobias about regarding the hard attacks sometimes not triggering due to the script? 

Thanks guys!
Dave


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## Mahlon

Thanks, Hendrik. That's great news.

Mahlon


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## Rob Elliott

Hendrik - in the middle of a project and don't have time to update all patches in template (per my custom keyswitches, etc.) Are any of the 'shorts' been updated. NICE improvements on the legato. Congrats.


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## brunodegazio

I've had a continuing problem getting the "Adaptive Legato" patch to play reliably. The "slurred" and "portamento" components of the patch are the problematic ones (Agile and Fast Runs work fine.)

The problem when playing slurred or portamentoed is (usually) a big dropout at the connection between the two notes. I say usually because sometimes it plays OK, perhaps once out of five tries. 

I've tried changing the host buffer size, the Kontakt DFD buffer size (both globally and in the instrument patch), and even setting selected groups within the instrument to "Sampler" (to avoid the DFD streaming overhead, in case the problem is due to a slow hard drive.) Nothing helped. The problem has persisted from version 1.0 to the the current 1.6

This is on a fast (4 gHz) Mac Pro with 32 GB of ram and with the library on a 7200 rpm hard drive that has no problems playing anything else in my collection. 

The slurs and portamentos sound great so I'd love to get them to work properly. Has anyone else experienced this and found a fix or workaround? 
thanks!


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## Rob Elliott

brunodegazio @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> I've had a continuing problem getting the "Adaptive Legato" patch to play reliably. The "slurred" and "portamento" components of the patch are the problematic ones (Agile and Fast Runs work fine.)
> 
> The problem when playing slurred or portamentoed is (usually) a big dropout at the connection between the two notes. I say usually because sometimes it plays OK, perhaps once out of five tries.
> 
> I've tried changing the host buffer size, the Kontakt DFD buffer size (both globally and in the instrument patch), and even setting selected groups within the instrument to "Sampler" (to avoid the DFD streaming overhead, in case the problem is due to a slow hard drive.) Nothing helped. The problem has persisted from version 1.0 to the the current 1.6
> 
> This is on a fast (4 gHz) Mac Pro with 32 GB of ram and with the library on a 7200 rpm hard drive that has no problems playing anything else in my collection.
> 
> The slurs and portamentos sound great so I'd love to get them to work properly. Has anyone else experienced this and found a fix or workaround?
> thanks!



+1. My workaround has been to change the xfade amounts at that transition - OR - write a different note. It hasn't happened a lot but this is what I have done.


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## brunodegazio

Unfortunately, writing a different note isn't an option as the problem occurs on just about _every_ note that is slurred or portamentoed.

What do you mean by changing the xfade amounts? Is that a user choice in the BST interface? Or do you mean adjusting it somewhere in the guts of the instrument? If so, where? I would expect that the crossfading takes place within BST's script, which isn't user-accesible.


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## Rob Elliott

brunodegazio @ Wed Jul 16 said:


> Unfortunately, writing a different note isn't an option as the problem occurs on just about _every_ note that is slurred or portamentoed.
> 
> What do you mean by changing the xfade amounts? Is that a user choice in the BST interface? Or do you mean adjusting it somewhere in the guts of the instrument? If so, where? I would expect that the crossfading takes place within BST's script, which isn't user-accesible.




CC1. I might have a different problem - that works here -- sometimes


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## Mahlon

Bruno, I'm don't think I'm having that problem -- or at least I don't know it if I do. Could you put up a short example, and I'll check to see if it happens here?

Mahlon


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## OT_Tobias

Hi Bruno,

I just saw your post. I have never heard of that issue and I also could not find an email by you about this. Did you report this issue?
Do you have specific steps to repoduce reliably. If yes, please send them to me via email and I will immediately look into this!

best

Tobias
OT Support

EDIT: AAh, my poor brain. Sorry - I wanted to send Bruno a PM and after that post here... did it the wrong way 'round.

As I said, we have not seen this issue reported. So if anyone has any information - let me know! I have used all BST Legatos extensively over the last weeks and have not encountered this issue.
In general - any issues you have, you know where to find me! Send an email and I'll do my best to get you sorted out.


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## brunodegazio

Thanks Tobias. 

I haven't submitted a report on this issue, even though I experienced it from the beginning. At first I thought it might be something about the way I configured or used it, but now I've got everything else working fine and I still can't eliminate it. I haven't had much response to my post, so I'm guessing it's not a common problem. 

Maybe the trouble is with file structure on my original installation drive? e.g. the files are very fragmented? I hesitate to spend the time to re-install BST. I would like to try with an SSD but I'm waiting for the 1 TB models to drop a little more in price. 

I will investigate a little further with the Kontakt Engine profiling mode to see if I can find where the time is being spent. If you have any suggestions please let me know. The problem ONLY occurs with the slurred or portamentoed transitions of the Slurred Legato.


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## brunodegazio

Still investigating...

I've determined that the legato transitions in Adaptive Legato work correctly when played from a single instance of the instrument within standalone Kontakt 5. So far so good. 

It still plays fine when I embed the Adaptive Legato instrument within a Bank of my selected Violin 1 patches (my way of building a template.)

However, when I add similar banks for Violins2, Violas, Celli and Basses, the dropout problem at the legato transitions re-appears. The problem occurs even though I am not playing any notes on these other banks, and persists even if I mute them. The problem disappears as soon as I delete the additional banks from the instance. 

When viewing the Engine Monitor I notice that there is a sudden CPU spike of >100% whenever a dropout occurs. Perhaps Kontakt has some subtle timing issues when several instruments are contained within an instance?

Mahon, I tried recording the output of these tests to post as a demo, like you asked, but imagine my surprise when I heard the recordings all perfect, without the dropouts I heard as they were recorded! I still haven't figured that one out. This was using the "Audio File Recorder" module within Plogue Bidule.


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## Mahlon

Weird goings on. I'm sure OT will be able to help get it sorted, though.

Mahlon


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## brunodegazio

I've been using and loving the BST "Repetition 16ths" instruments lately. One question though. There is a distinct down bow accent to the beginning of each repetition group, which is not always desirable - sometimes I would like to make a series of repeated notes on different pitches without accented the change of pitch.

Has anyone worked out a way to avoid or at least diminish the accent?


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