# Orchestral Tools Premiere Event—Thursday, December 17 (+ a massive announcement…)



## OrchestralTools (Dec 4, 2020)

Hey everyone,

2020 has been a busy year for Orchestral Tools.

We introduced the SINE Player, worked with Harry Gregson-Williams on Phoenix Orchestra, and with Jeff Russo on the TV and underscoring toolkit Modus. We took our first steps into studio production with LA Sessions, and traveled new paths with our wonderful Creative Soundpacks.

We want to say a big thank you to all of you—to all our customers, partners, our supporters, and everyone involved. But the year isn’t over yet.

*Join us at the Orchestral Tools 2020 Premiere Event, on Thursday, December 17, 2020, on our YouTube channel.*

We are proud to share a massive announcement with you.
Something we started many years ago is entering a new chapter…

Join us at this unique online event on Dec 17, at 10 AM in LA, 7 PM in Berlin.

You can register via our *website* or on the *event page*. Make sure to click ‘Add to calendar’ so you don’t miss it!

We look forward to seeing you there.

Best,

OT

P.S. Special shoutout to @Manaberry for that brilliant Jurassic Park video...


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 4, 2020)

Booked! :D


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 4, 2020)

Metropolis Ark 5!


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 4, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> Metropolis Ark 5!


Somehow I think it's even bigger than that...


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 4, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> Somehow I think it's even bigger than that...


Metropolis Ark 6?


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 4, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> Metropolis Ark 6?


Somehow I think it's even bigger than that...


----------



## mixedmoods (Dec 4, 2020)

I am pretty sure this could mean that the Berlin Libraries are finally ported to SINE player and will be available as one new "Berlin Orchestra" product – similar to BBCSO. Hopefully reedited and extended of course. In a way the title JOIN could be a small hint already.


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 4, 2020)

mixedmoods said:


> I am pretty sure this could mean that the Berlin Libraries are finally ported to SINE player and will be available as one new "Berlin Orchestra" product – similar to BBCSO. Hopefully reedited and extended of course. In a way the title JOIN could be a small hint already.



That would be like a $3000 single orchestra...

It's a new collaboration with Abbey Road, obviously.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 4, 2020)

JOIN as in "merging with Spitfire"


----------



## MA-Simon (Dec 4, 2020)

Berlin Orchestra *V2*


----------



## zimm83 (Dec 4, 2020)

Sine 2.0 with auto arranger.


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 4, 2020)

It's a long shot. But I think they've found a way to clone Tom Holkenborg.


----------



## zimm83 (Dec 4, 2020)

Hans Zimmer Orchestra...


----------



## GingerMaestro (Dec 4, 2020)

Well this is really exciting. The 4 top professional developers (OT,PS,CSW &AB) squeezing in their new releases before the end of the year. 2021 is going to be a great year for composers. I think these releases will really up everyone’s game. Amazing


----------



## emilio_n (Dec 4, 2020)

Booked! I am sure it will be something great!


----------



## Manaberry (Dec 4, 2020)

I look forward to seeing what you guys will announce! @OrchestralTools always a pleasure to create great memes.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Dec 4, 2020)

My guess is : Berlin Series going Sine + big updates ?


----------



## PaulieDC (Dec 4, 2020)

Ugh. NOW they are doing this?? My library cash balloon is deflated as of last week and you KNOW this is probably going to be a killer announcement.

I'm going to freeze my credit cards the night before. Just to save me from myself.


----------



## PaulieDC (Dec 4, 2020)

whitewasteland said:


> My guess is : Berlin Series going Sine + big updates ?


If they do the same with the big libraries like they did with Inspire (upgraded us to SINE for free), they've got a friend for life.


----------



## Michel Simons (Dec 4, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Booked! I am sure it will be something great!



I am sure it will be MASSIVE.


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 4, 2020)

I found some free oil to add to this fire... 💧

Check this out, from this past May. Lots of speculation potential here, based what they talked about in this round table. Sine! Something about articulation management! User-defined divisi!

And just for the fun of it, look at Hendrik's face every time they ask him "Could you have this by the fall?"


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 4, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> That would be like a $3000 single orchestra...
> 
> It's a new collaboration with Abbey Road, obviously.


More like The Berlin Philharmonik with the virtual Herbert von Karajan plug in.


----------



## LamaRose (Dec 4, 2020)

Rumored new library called, "The Fifth F." Spinal Tap for the orchestral world... UUUGE.


----------



## samphony (Dec 4, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> Somehow I think it's even bigger than that...


I have a good good feeling about this.


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 4, 2020)

"Something we started many years ago is entering a new chapter…"

It really could be anything.

I think we can all expect Berlin to be ported to Sine. This could be it, is that worth an announcement though? Hmm. It could be something like JXL Strings, that collection was started a while ago, and could be considered a new chapter. Or, it could be a new venture started years ago, undisclosed, and now being announced near finalisation stages.

We're in the dark it seems. Give us something to speculate on OT!


----------



## Confuzzly (Dec 4, 2020)

I'm normally not one to speculate, but if I am right, I will be so happy.

Since the day SINE was announced, I have suspected that OT's plans for it was never to be an Orchestral Tools Player. I have always assumed that their plan was, at some point, to open up the platform for other developers to build and sell their libraries on (of course, OT would monetize this is some way).

My hope is that three things will be announced.

1) Berlin Sine Port

2) Proper Sample Streaming. One of the few major features that SINE is lacking that hold it back a bit.

3) Announcing their plans to open up the platform in Q3-Q4 2021 as well as allowing any interested developers early access to their development tools much sooner. This would truly be massively "game changing" imo.

Imagine a software that is tailor made for the large sample libraries that we as composers regularly use. A front end made with a composers workflow in mind, as well as a back end made with orchestral sample developers in mind.

Imagine a literal one-stop-shop where you can just search for "Solo Trumpet" and every single solo trumpet patch on SINE from numerous developers will be listed where you can listen, purchase, and download all without so much as minimizing your DAW.

Imagine that software as FREE to use.

This is a future of the sample library industry that I wish for, and now all I can do is hope that OT agrees with me.


----------



## Beans (Dec 4, 2020)

Confuzzly said:


> 3) Announcing their plans to open up the platform in Q3-Q4 2021 as well as allowing any interested developers early access to their development tools much sooner. This would truly be massively "game changing" imo.



This would certainly disrupt the market, a key thing that Geoffrey Moore hammers into his writings. Not exactly a surprise statement, but it sure is hard to pull off.


----------



## Loïc D (Dec 4, 2020)

Booked.
I think it’s subscription.

(yes, I’ll do this joke over and over until I die or I become famous. tip : bet on the first)


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 4, 2020)

Will this hype train set the bar for future hype trains?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 4, 2020)

SINE is meant to be something to differentiate OT from it’s competitors and give OT an advantage towards them. There’s no way they’ll open it up to other developers.


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 4, 2020)

Confuzzly said:


> 2) Proper Sample Streaming. One of the few major features that SINE is lacking that hold it back a bit.



Care to explain?


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 4, 2020)

Will it be a Game Changer ?


----------



## purple (Dec 4, 2020)

Berlin series OPUS edition


----------



## purple (Dec 4, 2020)

They're going to release CSW!


----------



## FrozenIcicle (Dec 4, 2020)

just another word scramble comp guys, relax


----------



## Geoff Grace (Dec 4, 2020)

They'll probably finally release an AAX version of SINE ... just after I've moved my template to VEP Pro 7.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## shawnsingh (Dec 4, 2020)

so, here are the speculations we've had so far:
- More Metropolis Arks
- "Berlin Orchestra" moved to Sine
- Berlin Orchestra 2
- Another JXL library
- Sine becoming a platform for third party libraries too, instead of just a player
- a subscription model

Whatever it ends up being, I'm excited. I wish we didn't have to wait for 2 weeks to find out more.


----------



## jcrosby (Dec 4, 2020)

I'm trying to keep expectations realistic so my guess is they'll announce all remaining Kontakt libraries have been ported to Sine, and demo new features coming to Sine player that go well beyond Kontakt and SF player's limitations.


----------



## Alchemedia (Dec 4, 2020)

Jeff Rona taught me everything I needed to know about MIDI at UCLA 20 years ago.


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 4, 2020)

so, here are the speculations we've had so far:
- More Metropolis Arks
- "Berlin Orchestra" moved to Sine
- Berlin Orchestra 2
- Another JXL library
- Sine becoming a platform for third party libraries too, instead of just a player
- a subscription model 
- Ditching SINE and moving to SA player
- Selling the whole Berlin as a bundle for $599


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 5, 2020)

The video with the LA creatives was good. Hendrick talks about the potential of a DAW that can see ahead. 

Instrument modelling discussing was amazing too and a great way to abolish the huge CPU, RAM and ROM load of of sample voices. It would be amazing to see AI technology learn as it has done in our art sector. 

For instance if you look at VFX, we've been recreating faces for ages to replicate actors in 3D. Taking textures, scans, etc. Parts of the subject and then bring it together to get something close, but hits the uncanny valley. The same as we do with sampling. Its very close, just not there yet.

But along comes Deepfake, where loads of images and videos of a face have been analysed and used to give an amazing representation in its primary release. It goes in a new direction, and by-passes the complexity of recreating materials, muscles, motion, lighting, etc. 

The same concept could be applied to an instrument. If the AI could learn the instrument fed samples and performances of the instruments or sections it could do a much better job than us, manually chopping up and blending samples. I know it sounds difficult but Adobe previewed a scope of impressive audio tech years ago. Where it could recreate a person's speech from a sample of someone's voice. AI voices are also getting there. These patterns we speak in, the tones, etc, it's the same as an instrument, so we're not a million miles away from the concept of AI being feasible. 

Not saying OT are doing this, just the video was very interesting and sparked thoughts.


----------



## Dima Lanski (Dec 5, 2020)

Peter Satera said:


> The video with the LA creatives was good. Hendrick talks about the potential of a DAW that can see ahead.
> 
> Instrument modelling discussing was amazing too and a great way to abolish the huge CPU, RAM and ROM load of of sample voices. It would be amazing to see AI technology learn as it has done in our art sector.
> 
> ...


Can you post a link to the video, please? Interesting stuff and I seem to have missed it.


----------



## Maxime Luft (Dec 5, 2020)

Dima Lanski said:


> Can you post a link to the video, please? Interesting stuff and I seem to have missed it.


----------



## Dima Lanski (Dec 5, 2020)

Maxime Luft said:


>



Thank you!


----------



## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 5, 2020)

Berlin Choirs


----------



## Fry777 (Dec 5, 2020)

A new DAW


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Dec 5, 2020)

Fry777 said:


> A new DAW


But why?


----------



## Mystic (Dec 5, 2020)

I doubt it would be a DAW. They are a sampling company and there is too much competition already in the DAW market.

I'm guessing a core library replacement for Berlin built from the ground up.


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 5, 2020)

Peter Satera said:


> The video with the LA creatives was good. Hendrick talks about the potential of a DAW that can see ahead.
> 
> Instrument modelling discussing was amazing too and a great way to abolish the huge CPU, RAM and ROM load of of sample voices. It would be amazing to see AI technology learn as it has done in our art sector.



I agree with this. To me, the discussion about articulations was especially revealing and I admire OT's view that it's not good for composers when we're forced because of current limitations to live with nothing but legato and spiccato. 

If I'm not wrong, I think OT did some pioneering work with Adaptive Legato back in the day and created the ability in the Berlin Series to turn any long interval into a legato. 

So taking all of this together, I would expect some kind of new technology, possibly some new scripting engine inside SINE, like Capsule was for Adaptive Legato...


----------



## mybadmemory (Dec 5, 2020)

I think the logical trajectory for any developer of digital products at a certain point becomes to not just create and sell your own (which is a limited business model), but to become a platform for reselling yours and others (an unlimited business model).

Going from creator of products, to a platform for products, basically breaks the barrier for how big of a vision you can achieve, how much of the market you can affect, and how much revenue you can eventually generate. What SINE is so far, definitely feels like a step towards this.

Being a store, where people can purchase the content they need, from directly within the context of where they do their work, is a huge advantage. And from that perspective OT has the lead by far since they are already doing exactly this, albeit on a smaller scale with their own content.

We'll see what happens. But with a store inside a DAW already established, and OT already branching out and doing more and more collaborations, I would be very surprised if it was not at all intended to grow into a platform for as much sampled content as possible.

You don't build a store if you don't plan to sell things, right?


----------



## mybadmemory (Dec 5, 2020)

And with Kontakt (which has for many years been the de facto platform) feeling older and more left behind for every day, this slot is basically already begging to be taken! The difference between OT and the other devs that also abandoned kontakt to make their own players, is that OT made their player not just a player but a store. That don't just plays stuff but sells stuff. That is already in your DAW. If they are not looking to fill the shoes of becoming a new major library platform, I don't know what they are doing. :D


----------



## axb312 (Dec 5, 2020)

Perhaps a revamped/ newer version of the Berlin series? Hence the recent 50% off?


----------



## Kartus (Dec 5, 2020)

Maxime Luft said:


>



they talk about a DAW tailored for composers.


Fry777 said:


> A new DAW


I thought about that too. But it would be very surprising and a big leap, because SINE isn't established from my perspective. like take two steps in one, too big and will fail  but who knows what investors and devs they could have attracted to join their vision.



OrchestralTools said:


> P.S. Special shoutout to @Manaberry for that brilliant Jurassic Park video...


where can I find @Manaberry Jurassic Park video?


----------



## Alchemedia (Dec 5, 2020)

Whatever it is, I guessing it leverages new MIDI 2.0 capabilities.


----------



## FrozenIcicle (Dec 5, 2020)

They just discounted their Berlin series, I reckon it’s like 2.0, resampled Berlin series


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 5, 2020)

They recorded a triangle library.


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 5, 2020)

germancomponist said:


> They recorded a triangle library.


Berlin cowbell with Will Ferrell plug in.


----------



## pondinthestream (Dec 5, 2020)

germancomponist said:


> They recorded a triangle library.


competition is high Harmonic Triangles by inouï samples (inouisamples.com)


----------



## pondinthestream (Dec 5, 2020)

I think they are branching out to VST effects with a new compressor 
or
subscriptions


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 5, 2020)

pondinthestream said:


> I think they are branching out to VST effects with a new compressor
> or
> subscriptions


Maybe they took on drunken musicians. Allegedly, alcohol increases the creativity of many?


----------



## Larbguy (Dec 5, 2020)

pondinthestream said:


> I think they are branching out to VST effects with a new compressor
> or
> subscriptions


please no lol


----------



## jcrosby (Dec 5, 2020)

mybadmemory said:


> I think the logical trajectory for any developer of digital products at a certain point becomes to not just create and sell your own (which is a limited business model), but to become a platform for reselling yours and others (an unlimited business model).
> 
> Going from creator of products, to a platform for products, basically breaks the barrier for how big of a vision you can achieve, how much of the market you can affect, and how much revenue you can eventually generate. What SINE is so far, definitely feels like a step towards this.
> 
> ...


I actually completely agree with this. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities honestly...


----------



## synergy543 (Dec 5, 2020)

Hendrik repeats several times: 

"A DAW specially made for film composers that looks into the future and picks the right articulations"

Hendrik, mi6 is no longer considering you, as you cannot keep a secret!


----------



## Ihnoc (Dec 6, 2020)

Would prefer to see something other than a subscription model but then the individual instrument purchases and LA Studio kit shows Orchestral Tools are cognisant that they can tap the non-orchestral composer market and hobbyists (count myself among them), much as Spitfire are and doing that breaks open the pay wall for many. I think it's always worth keeping in mind we're a vocal minority among users.

I'd love to see a choir in SINE - the offerings among the different collections thus far sound great and feels a bit like the last cornerstone to touch upon. I somewhat don't think this announcement will pertain specifically to porting Berlin to SINE - seems bit overkill for something they have already announced.

Somewhat don't care what it is actually, just excited to see Orchestral Tools continue to develop as they have over the last few years.


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 6, 2020)

They're bound to announce the Berlin series is coming to Sine, now. However, there's likely to be more as we were shown Berlin Series coming to Sine back in January 2019 being ported over. If it was just this, it would feel like it's the same *announcement*.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 6, 2020)

pondinthestream said:


> competition is high Harmonic Triangles by inouï samples (inouisamples.com)



Awesome!


----------



## river angler (Dec 6, 2020)

Ihnoc said:


> I'd love to see a choir in SINE - the offerings among the different collections thus far sound great and feels a bit like the last cornerstone to touch upon. I somewhat don't think this announcement will pertain specifically to porting Berlin to SINE - seems bit overkill for something they have already announced.



I think they they must have a dedicated choir library in developement- It's an inevitable library for them to make as they have been teasing us with so many great choral elements in a lot of their libraries! Would be an instant buy for me for sure as I just haven't been fully convinced by any of the current choir libraries out there. When they do bring one out my guess is that it will be an all encompassing one- not just a choral library stuck in one genre. I look forward to seeing what OT come up with!


----------



## OrchestralTools (Dec 7, 2020)

Kartus said:


> they talk about a DAW tailored for composers.
> 
> I thought about that too. But it would be very surprising and a big leap, because SINE isn't established from my perspective. like take two steps in one, too big and will fail  but who knows what investors and devs they could have attracted to join their vision.
> 
> ...



Here you go @Kartus:


----------



## Vik (Dec 7, 2020)

synergy543 said:


> Hendrik repeats several times:
> 
> "A DAW specially made for film composers that looks into the future and picks the right articulations"
> 
> Hendrik, mi6 is no longer considering you, as you cannot keep a secret!


 It would be easier to add an Learn function in the actual libraries, which would analyse what you have created after a single play-through, and assign articulations automatically. This would be very useful eg. in libraries that have short notes with a lot more length options than we have today.


----------



## shawnsingh (Dec 7, 2020)

Vik said:


> It would be easier to add an Learn function in the actual libraries, which would analyse what you have created after a single play-through, and assign articulations automatically. This would be very useful eg. in libraries that have short notes with a lot more length options than we have today.



And I think this could also be strengthened with new sampling strategies. Imagine sampling strings with fingered, hand shift, and string change legato, along with an analyzer that simulates the fingering and bowing patterns a string player would use on a passage. keyswitches can be used for more abstract "playing style" instead of articulation, and articulations can be 90% what the user wanted only needing to edit the last 10%.


----------



## Maxime Luft (Dec 9, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


> Here you go @Kartus:



Didn't notice all those hidden texts at first, not bad not bad

Only 8 days until the day


----------



## jamwerks (Dec 9, 2020)

Undoubtedly JXL Strings with big section sizes!

Also looking forward to Ark 3 & BBB on SINE (and a sale)!


----------



## Fry777 (Dec 9, 2020)

A new creative pack in the meantime ...


----------



## Frederik (Dec 9, 2020)

Fry777 said:


> A new creative pack in the meantime ...



Ah you spotted it @Fry777 :D


----------



## Fry777 (Dec 9, 2020)

Frederik said:


> Ah you spotted it @Fry777 :D



Total coincidence though, I went on youtube to search for a reference track and this was right on my homepage



No, no, I'm not a stalker...


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 9, 2020)

Ok ok, I told the OT guys I wouldn't blab, but here it is






Not deep sampled, but does include a vast array of buffoonish brass, wheezing winds, strangled strings and pretentious percussion. Featuring -9 RR of player noises, background fx, music stand crashes, horrendous unisons, and a brand new "player critic" plug in to SINE where the orchestra walks out if they get bored of your music. Adjustments can be made that include static ostinati, tied whole notes longer than 4 bars, and unreasonable instrument ranges or techniques. There is even a clever notification audio that will print on your track upon bounce which says "dude WTF were you thinking?"

This could possibly be the crowning achievement of any sample developer and a library that will instantly be adopted by dozens of composers.


----------



## Frederik (Dec 9, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> and a brand new "player critic" plug in to SINE where the orchestra walks out if they get bored of your music.


Haha, I love this part especially, makes you compose quicker so the musicians stay happy


----------



## Kirk1701 (Dec 9, 2020)

I mean, I'd be happy to see a walk-through on the multi-out capabilities of SINE. Or some kind of tips and tricks tutorial on building templates.


----------



## Dima Lanski (Dec 9, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> 2020 has been a busy year for Orchestral Tools.
> 
> ...


I've got a question, do I have to register on the eventbrite.de to see the event, or will I be able to watch it directly on your youtube channel at the premier time?


----------



## OrchestralTools (Dec 10, 2020)

Only one week to go until our premiere event! We're very much looking forward to sharing the announcement with you all...






To register for the event, click the link here: https://bit.ly/3lGlCPR
Make sure to ‘Add to calendar’ so you don’t miss it!


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 12, 2020)

I'm super excited


----------



## easyrider (Dec 12, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


> Only one week to go until our premiere event! We're very much looking forward to sharing the announcement with you all...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Give us a clue?


----------



## Marsen (Dec 12, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> I found some free oil to add to this fire... 💧
> 
> Check this out, from this past May. Lots of speculation potential here, based what they talked about in this round table. Sine! Something about articulation management! User-defined divisi!
> 
> And just for the fun of it, look at Hendrik's face every time they ask him "Could you have this by the fall?"



Good find.


----------



## Babe (Dec 12, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> Ok ok, I told the OT guys I wouldn't blab, but here it is
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I won't buy this library unless it has a cymbal flying across the stage and crashing on the floor. The advance library would need more articulations such as the cymbal falling on a timpani, hitting the conductor, etc.


----------



## ysnyvz (Dec 13, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Give us a clue?





http://jxlstrings.com/


----------



## jcrosby (Dec 13, 2020)

ysnyvz said:


> http://jxlstrings.com/


you forgot:



http://jxlpercussion.com/


----------



## ysnyvz (Dec 13, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> you forgot:
> 
> 
> 
> http://jxlpercussion.com/


I didn't. I think strings will be released sooner.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 13, 2020)

Junkie XL Strings, and Junkie XL Perc. Ooooh .. I didn't expect that ! 

:emoji_astonished:


----------



## Kartus (Dec 13, 2020)

_JXLwoodwinds_.com still available.


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 13, 2020)

Kartus said:


> _JXLwoodwinds_.com still available.


It's 2020, what are woodwinds?


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 13, 2020)

I wish the 17th was tomorrow


----------



## mybadmemory (Dec 13, 2020)

I love woodwinds. :(


----------



## Paul Jelfs (Dec 13, 2020)

I imagine it will be a BUNCH of announcements. Starting with SINE 2.0 that has loads more features, and maybe integrates directly with the main DAWs, at a very high level, starting with Cubase or Logic etc- auto handles expression maps, stuff like that. 

Next, Probably a partnership with another big sample developer, or maybe DAW maker that will allows new possibilities to compose and workflow. 

They then will announce all the Berlin libraries will be on Sine 2.0 from end of todays stream. 

And finish up with a Teaser for JXL Strings, coming in Spring 2021 ? !


----------



## Manaberry (Dec 13, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I wish the 17th was tomorrow


Tell that to your wallet.


----------



## ysnyvz (Dec 13, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> what are woodwinds?


Some weird instruments invented by a guy called Alex Wallbank.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 13, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I wish the 17th was tomorrow


My wallet wishes, the 17th will never come.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 13, 2020)

Marsen said:


> My wallet wishes, the 17th will never come.



Let's leave our wallets out of this.


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 13, 2020)

Paul Jelfs said:


> I imagine it will be a BUNCH of announcements. Starting with SINE 2.0 that has loads more features, and maybe integrates directly with the main DAWs, at a very high level, starting with Cubase or Logic etc- auto handles expression maps, stuff like that.
> 
> Next, Probably a partnership with another big sample developer, or maybe DAW maker that will allows new possibilities to compose and workflow.
> 
> ...



oooOoo. Interesting, looks like I'm not the only one interested in JXL Orchestra!


----------



## Manaberry (Dec 14, 2020)

Beans said:


> Maybe it's just me, but the frequent Photoshop and HTML editing nonsense could probably stay in Sample Talk and not the paid boards.



I hesitated a lot before posting that, and you are right. I'm going to delete it 

I cannot wait for that announcement. The power outage today burned the last cell of my brain. I would be very surprised to see new libraries as this year was special for everyone. What "more space between musicians" would sound?


----------



## servandus (Dec 14, 2020)

I was rehearsing Sancan's Sonatine with Emmanuel Pahud the other day, when he told me about OT having recently sampled the Berliner Philharmoniker. I looked at him incredulously at first, but then Sarah Willis, who was hanging around at the rehearsal, said: "They made me play 12 different dynamics because of some crossfading nonsense, and 24 repetitions of each note, due to some weird problems with little birds or something. They also strongly insisted that I should play the cuivré like I was an elephant on strike, because that kind of sound is nowadays on high demand... Kind of freaky, but they're super nice guys".

I was perplexed, but Emmanuel added, "Yup, but they're using some modelling techniques this time around, so it will run nicely on any 8GB RAM machine, and it will be also extremely light on the CPU. They will be launching BPhO on their latest COSINE 5.0 platform, which is super stable, and won't crash even if you throw it off the windows". Just when I thought he was going to add "no pun intended" or something like that, he said: "It will only run natively on M1 processors though". 

He probably noticed my bewilderment, so he tried to explain: "COSINE 5.0 will now include StaffPal, a new handwriting and voice recognition module, Cuteface a groundbreaking, AI-driven DAW that pre-reads the score and generates all the needed playback data on the fly, and Frigio, a sublime music notation module which blows away any other thing you've ever seen so far on the market. CONSPIRATA will also be included, so you can forget about mixing. They recorded everything in the Philharmonie, but with this new tool you can easily make us sound as if we were playing in any other hall on the planet. A technological marvel, also very low on CPU, and only 135MB of HD space requiered!". 

Just when it seemed enough, but right before I could even open my mouth, I was all of a sudden transported to the recording sessions in the Philarmonie... and there he was: magnificent, passionate, so absorbed in his conducting, no other than the legendary Sir Simon von Karajan. They were also sampling him as deeply as one can imagine: every movement, every little gesture, with up to 16 round robins, 12 dynamic layers, adaptive-polyphonic arm legato and all that jazz; they were even thinking of including two different conducting modes on COSINE: CC64 below 100 would trigger his "head down, closed eyes" samples; above 100 you could enjoy his "fulminating look" samples. It was at that very moment that I realized what they meant by "a massive announcement". 

He then turned around, and looked at me, but something strange happened: his body was still Herbert von Rattle's, but his face morphed into Hendrik Thomson's, and he told me: "You see? This is truly a game changer, a new universal starting point". And then a voice came from the control room: "And it will be free for every composer on planet Earth for ever". It was Sascha Henson, who smiled at me while the talented Christian Knorr, sitting next to him, added: "We've even sampled the Rundfunkchor and the State-and Cathedral Choirs, and make them sing every phoneme humans are able to pronounce in every known language. Thanks to our teaming up with Dreamdominants, we're able to include Synthesizer N in COSINE, which you can also route into the Studio version of our Harmodyne plugin, should you want to go really wild." 

By then, more than bewildered I was close to paroxysm, when Sir Paul Schwarzer von Karajan uttered the final words that woke me up: "I'm very excited. Aren't you?"

Well, for sure I am. Really looking forward to watching the announcement on Thursday


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 14, 2020)

servandus said:


> I was rehearsing Sancan's Sonatine with Emmanuel Pahud the other day, when he told me about OT having recently sampled the Berliner Philharmoniker. I looked at him incredulously at first, but then Sarah Willis, who was hanging around at the rehearsal, said: "They made me play 12 different dynamics because of some crossfading nonsense, and 24 repetitions of each note, due to some weird problems with little birds or something. They also strongly insisted that I should play the cuivré like I was an elephant on strike, because that kind of sound is nowadays on high demand... Kind of freaky, but they're super nice guys".
> 
> I was perplexed, but Emmanuel added, "Yup, but they're using some modelling techniques this time around, so it will run nicely on any 8GB RAM machine, and it will be also extremely light on the CPU. They will be launching BPhO on their latest COSINE 5.0 platform, which is super stable, and won't crash even if you throw it off the windows". Just when I thought he was going to add "no pun intended" or something like that, he said: "It will only run natively on M1 processors though".
> 
> ...


My favorite post of the year - FOR SURE! 😂


----------



## Vik (Dec 14, 2020)

servandus said:


> due to some weird problems with little birds or something


Poor robins!


----------



## RogiervG (Dec 14, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> It's 2020, what are woodwinds?


But Alex is about to release some...


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 14, 2020)

RogiervG said:


> But Alex is about to release some...


Right and before that, nobody is using winds in 2020


----------



## RogiervG (Dec 14, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> Right and before that, nobody is using winds in 2020


i do


----------



## jazzman7 (Dec 14, 2020)

servandus said:


> I was rehearsing Sancan's Sonatine with Emmanuel Pahud the other day, when he told me about OT having recently sampled the Berliner Philharmoniker. I looked at him incredulously at first, but then Sarah Willis, who was hanging around at the rehearsal, said: "They made me play 12 different dynamics because of some crossfading nonsense, and 24 repetitions of each note, due to some weird problems with little birds or something. They also strongly insisted that I should play the cuivré like I was an elephant on strike, because that kind of sound is nowadays on high demand... Kind of freaky, but they're super nice guys".
> 
> I was perplexed, but Emmanuel added, "Yup, but they're using some modelling techniques this time around, so it will run nicely on any 8GB RAM machine, and it will be also extremely light on the CPU. They will be launching BPhO on their latest COSINE 5.0 platform, which is super stable, and won't crash even if you throw it off the windows". Just when I thought he was going to add "no pun intended" or something like that, he said: "It will only run natively on M1 processors though".
> 
> ...


That is SO Good!


----------



## jazzman7 (Dec 14, 2020)

shawnsingh said:


> And I think this could also be strengthened with new sampling strategies. Imagine sampling strings with fingered, hand shift, and string change legato, along with an analyzer that simulates the fingering and bowing patterns a string player would use on a passage. keyswitches can be used for more abstract "playing style" instead of articulation, and articulations can be 90% what the user wanted only needing to edit the last 10%.


I want the Yo-Yo Ma Legato Asap. Siiiine!


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 14, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> It's 2020, what are woodwinds?





RogiervG said:


> But Alex is about to release some...





Bluemount Score said:


> Right and before that, nobody is using winds in 2020





RogiervG said:


> i do



No, but you see you haven't really used woodwinds until you've used Cinematic Studio woodwinds....


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 14, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> No, but you see you haven't really used woodwinds until you've used Cinematic Studio woodwinds....


Okay folks, let's not ruin OT's thread!


----------



## Marsen (Dec 14, 2020)

Back to topic:

Wallet is empty!


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 16, 2020)

RogiervG said:


> But Alex is about to release some...



He might be waiting for 2021. Don't know what's the deal with that release.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 16, 2020)

I'm looking forward to the big event, and announcements from OT tomorrow ! 

Exciting times ahead.


----------



## Casiquire (Dec 16, 2020)

Even more than a learn function, the player can just have an extra long delay like another recent library and pick out articulations based on what's coming in the next three seconds or so. It seems to work remarkably well.

I think the JXL libraries are more likely though. Or maybe it will indeed be an event with several announcements


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 16, 2020)




----------



## Manaberry (Dec 16, 2020)

We are almost there.


----------



## samphony (Dec 16, 2020)

I can’t wait to see what’s next!!!


I’ve heard from a pretty good source that they will start a subscription service.
Also from the background of their new player and system, it makes total sense to me...


----------



## Marsen (Dec 16, 2020)

Berlin calling...


----------



## Marsen (Dec 16, 2020)

samphony said:


> I’ve heard from a pretty good source that they will start a subscription service.
> Also from the background of their new player and system, it makes total sense to me...



This wouldn't be a massive anouncement, this would be a massive dissapointment.


----------



## artinro (Dec 16, 2020)

If it’s subscription, I hope they’ll allow for regular purchasing alongside. I hate the idea of subscriptions.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 16, 2020)

Marsen said:


> Berlin calling...


Considering the reference to london calling - I think it's better if we just don't mirror that with Germany

I'm broke as hell - hopefully it's a combination of free stuff for kontakt owners and a preorder that's atleast going to last the month of january XD


----------



## Marsen (Dec 16, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Considering the reference to london calling - I think it's better if we just don't mirror that with Germany
> 
> I'm broke as hell - hopefully it's a combination of free stuff for kontakt owners and a preorder that's atleast going to last the month of january XD


Yeah, same for me. Still in recovery mode.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 16, 2020)

artinro said:


> If it’s subscription, I hope they’ll allow for regular purchasing alongside. I hate the idea of subscriptions.



Subscription is like loan agreement.
If you can't pay, you're out.

What you purchased, you can use, no matter what amazing products comes next.


----------



## artinro (Dec 16, 2020)

Marsen said:


> Subscription is like loan agreement.
> If you can't pay, you're out.
> 
> What you purchased, you can use, no matter what amazing products comes next.



Yeah, just not a fan of it. I’d rather just pay once for a library I want. I have zero interest in keeping track of which developer is about to bill me on any given month, perhaps for a product I haven’t used for a while but might again soon. So, if a dev goes the subscription route without offering the alternative, it’s an instant “out” for me, personally.


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 16, 2020)

I also think the “massive” part refers to junkie XL stuff, continuing something they started “a while ago”. 300 violin I players, etc

It would be incredible (and stupid) if XL remains standalone brass and not a full series


----------



## nowimhere (Dec 16, 2020)

I'm a fan of Orchestral Tools... But can someone please explain....

IF the announcement is about moving to SINE player as so many have speculated...
Whats the big deal? Like, whats the advantage of that?


----------



## John57 (Dec 16, 2020)

Another problem with subscriptions is what happens when the company ever goes belly up?


----------



## bvaughn0402 (Dec 16, 2020)

I can’t believe it is just a SINE announcement. Although I’m patiently waiting for Berlin. It must be a new product.


----------



## Benjamin Duk (Dec 16, 2020)

I personally think the big announcement will be engine related to SINE, and not a library. They mentioned it's something they've been working on for years.

Rent to own model is nice. I wish more developers would do that.


----------



## BlackDorito (Dec 16, 2020)

nowimhere said:


> IF the announcement is about moving to SINE player as so many have speculated...
> Whats the big deal? Like, whats the advantage of that?


Well, the Capsule player has at least one bug I know of that OT has indicated is not easy to fix .. and will not be present in SINE. Sending a CC command to change the slot in a multi-artic patch - i.e. to select the articulation with a CC - is unreliable.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 16, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> 300 violin I players



Hopefully they didn't go that far.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 16, 2020)

Can't wait to have all my Berlin Series libraries running in SINE.

I will have to say Bye Bye to Kontakt & CAPSULE , It was a pleasure working with you, but I need to move forward


----------



## VSriHarsha (Dec 16, 2020)

Oh! So they’re making everything SINE?

That’s something affordable in a way. But they gotta solve out the RAM thing.

Even Berlin Inspires are not actually a Laptop Orchestra, as they mention. I don’t buy that.
But it got some real damn good sound.

I think the one who can make anything workon 2 gb Ram & Core 2 Duo is a winner, well, mostly.

I am telling you Spitfires can do that. Well, they actually did it. Some of theirs.

Sorry for writing about Spitfires in this post but just a line or 2.

Well, I love OT’s but you really gotta make it work with less CPU usage as possible.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 16, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> I think the one who can make anything workon 2 gb Ram & Core 2 Duo is a winner, well, mostly.



You must be joking ... right ? 

2 GB RAM ? What are we running here... Apple Loops ?


----------



## John Longley (Dec 16, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> You must be joking ... right ?
> 
> 2 GB RAM ? What are we running here... Apple Loops ?


Imagine running OS11 on 2GB RAM.


----------



## Tremendouz (Dec 16, 2020)

John Longley said:


> Imagine running OS11 on 2GB RAM.


Dunno about that but I have an old PC running Windows 10 with 3GB DDR2 and it works just fine for basic stuff in Reaper!


----------



## Kevinside (Dec 16, 2020)

They present the "Netflix ESC Firesaga" Library... Make an ESC Song in 5 Minutes....
And they worked so hard with Ralph Siegel to make this wonder happen for us all....


----------



## pawel (Dec 16, 2020)

I think they're going to announce Sine's support for 3rd party libraries. The business model is going to be similar to how NI does it: Sine Player for just using libraries and Sine "Full" (paid) for creating them. The most important difference is that Sine Player is going to work with all Sine libraries and not only the ones that OT blesses.


----------



## Kevinside (Dec 17, 2020)

Without Aax Support


----------



## Montisquirrel (Dec 17, 2020)

JOIN: you can now join SINE and sell your own libraries, OT will get some % of it and get "massive" amount of cash like Valve with Steam.


----------



## samphony (Dec 17, 2020)

nowimhere said:


> I'm a fan of Orchestral Tools... But can someone please explain....
> 
> IF the announcement is about moving to SINE player as so many have speculated...
> Whats the big deal? Like, whats the advantage of that?


I have to say i can’t wait until every single library is SINE only. It’s usability and possibilities is totally my cup of tea.
The advantage is 

- usability
- mic merge
- layer anything and everything
- batch editing for channel/ controller assignments 
- single instrument/ bundle puchase through the plugin


----------



## KallumS (Dec 17, 2020)

Imagine if Orchestral Tools collaborated with Spitfire Audio on a library


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 17, 2020)

If it is indeed subscription, then I'm not a complete fan of it. But I see some benefits of it as I would possibly use it in a different manner. I'd opt in for a month to test product(s) before parting with a large sum.

Although I doubt this might be it, Orchestral Tools also have an opportunity here to do this with their player, as the store and player are all in one. They could allow for trial periods of all their libraries, which shows confidence in their product.


----------



## holywilly (Dec 17, 2020)

How about Orchestral Tools collaborates with VSL, that will be massive!


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

I don't really see OT doing a subscription model, they already have piecemeal.


----------



## Loïc D (Dec 17, 2020)

My guess is a new library collection, probably using an updated SINE engine. 
My bet goes to a prestigious scoring orchestra recorded in a LA stage. 

The design of the invitation uses the same pattern / fonts as the recent LA sessions release.

Porting Berlin to SINE is certainly fine, but would not be a massive news.


----------



## AudioLoco (Dec 17, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Can't wait to have all my Berlin Series libraries running in SINE.
> 
> I will have to say Bye Bye to Kontakt & CAPSULE , It was a pleasure working with you, but I need to move forward


May I genuinely ask what is so exciting about Sine vs Kontakt?
Cheers.


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (Dec 17, 2020)

Their event is sold out?!?
What support respectively quality can I expect from Orchestral Tools when they not even can handle all the stakeholders?
I know I will hear about the new announcement and probably can follow it afterwards but this is what keeps me away from a company which shouldn’t have this lack of sophisticated infrastructure which in turn lets people conclude…


----------



## Kent (Dec 17, 2020)

Ronny D. Ana said:


> Their event is sold out?!?
> What support respectively quality can I expect from Orchestral Tools when they not even can handle all the stakeholders?
> I know I will hear about the new announcement and probably can follow it afterwards but this is what keeps me away from a company which shouldn’t have this lack of sophisticated infrastructure which in turn lets people conclude…


Please elaborate?


----------



## Jerry Growl (Dec 17, 2020)

Ronny D. Ana said:


> Their event is sold out?!?
> What support respectively quality can I expect from Orchestral Tools when they not even can handle all the stakeholders?
> I know I will hear about the new announcement and probably can follow it afterwards but this is what keeps me away from a company which shouldn’t have this lack of sophisticated infrastructure which in turn lets people conclude…


There is a difference between the youtube event and tickets to be actually there in Berlin in person in 2020 during corona lockdown conditions, right?


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (Dec 17, 2020)

Company: "Announcement!"
People: "Subscription!!!!!"
Company "???"

What's wrong with folks?


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (Dec 17, 2020)

kmaster said:


> Please elaborate?


I tried to book the 2020 Premiere Event at https://www.eventbrite.de/e/orchestral-tools-2020-premiere-event-tickets-131319023735 and it says that it is sold out which led me to my rant.

What else in particular do you want me to elaborate?


----------



## Toecutter (Dec 17, 2020)

Ronny D. Ana said:


> I tried to book the 2020 Premiere Event at https://www.eventbrite.de/e/orchestral-tools-2020-premiere-event-tickets-131319023735 and it says that it is sold out which led me to my rant.
> 
> What else in particular do you want me to elaborate?


Don't worry I'm sure Orchestral Tools will stream the event all over social media.


----------



## jonathanwright (Dec 17, 2020)

Kevinside said:


> They present the "Netflix ESC Firesaga" Library... Make an ESC Song in 5 Minutes....
> And they worked so hard with Ralph Siegel to make this wonder happen for us all....



Ja Ja Ding Dong!


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (Dec 17, 2020)

Jerry Growl said:


> There is a difference between the youtube event and tickets to be actually there in Berlin in person in 2020 during corona lockdown conditions, right?



I am sure that there is not any possibility to get tickets to be actually there in Berlin in person (which of course I would not be interested in).


----------



## shawnsingh (Dec 17, 2020)

My guess is that the registration might be just an oddity of using event brite. But even on the event brite page it just says "join us on our YouTube channel". probably anyone should be able to join.


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (Dec 17, 2020)

Toecutter said:


> Don't worry I'm sure Orchestral Tools will stream the event all over social media.


Yes I know (as said) but I do not understand why a company which eventually is a IT related one can not handle an event for every stakeholder. And that said I conclude that this company is not able to handle support for every stakeholder which in turn is the most important feature a company can have.


----------



## Kent (Dec 17, 2020)

Ronny D. Ana said:


> I tried to book the 2020 Premiere Event at https://www.eventbrite.de/e/orchestral-tools-2020-premiere-event-tickets-131319023735 and it says that it is sold out which led me to my rant.
> 
> What else in particular do you want me to elaborate?


I hear your frustration, but digital events (especially media-heavy ones) have attendance caps. I don’t think this reflects poorly on OT...


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

DarkestShadow said:


> Company: "Announcement!"
> People: "Subscription!!!!!"
> Company "???"
> 
> What's wrong with folks?


these people are a hit at weddings too...
*dings wine glass* "everyone, thank you for coming to one of the most important moment's in our lives... Melissa and I would like to announce the next big moment on the horizon" **drunk ViC users munching on cake** "A Subscription model??" ... ".... .... no, Melissa and I are expecting a baby"


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (Dec 17, 2020)

How a sample company handles a digital event has zero to do with their usual business... making sample libraries. 

And it's irrelevant anyway, hop over to YT or potentially other social media and watch when it's time.
THE END.


----------



## jamwerks (Dec 17, 2020)

I'd say:

JXL Strings

and

A new line starting with new Woodwinds

and

Ark 3 Ready on Sine

and

X-mas sale on individual Sine instruments


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (Dec 17, 2020)

shawnsingh said:


> My guess is that the registration might be just an oddity of using event brite. But even on the event brite page it just says "join us on our YouTube channel". probably anyone should be able to join.



Yes I read that also, thanks . But why using event bride when going live in YouTube?
Maybe I am wrong ranting at the IT department of Orchestral Tools. Maybe it is the marketing teams fault.
I do not know but it is annoying. OT has wonderful products (even though they are very expensive) which I would really like to buy. But I can not because of this unsteadiness the give me.


----------



## davidson (Dec 17, 2020)

How the hell is a digital event 'sold out'? There's no streaming cap with youtube, twitch etc. Oh well, looks like I'll have to sit at home and look at a blank screen.


----------



## Manaberry (Dec 17, 2020)

Because Eventbrite is an event organizer app. Why not using it? It has dedicated tools and analytics.


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (Dec 17, 2020)

kmaster said:


> I hear your frustration, but digital events (especially media-heavy ones) have attendance caps. I don’t think this reflects poorly on OT...


But OT is the first contact so they are responsible for their business partners and have to suffer from my rant 
And repeating myself If they can not handle this (with or without their partners) it makes me not trusting this company very much


----------



## davidson (Dec 17, 2020)

It's not that great if only half a dozen people can view the event (I pulled that number out of my ass, but you get the point)


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (Dec 17, 2020)

DarkestShadow said:


> How a sample company handles a digital event has zero to do with their usual business... making sample libraries.
> 
> And it's irrelevant anyway, hop over to YT or potentially other social media and watch when it's time.
> THE END.



It is not!
A company is as good as the weakest link. Imagine you have a simple application with a sole task. The application does not start so you call the company to support you in starting the application but they can not help you for some reasons. What do you think about the company? And even if you think, well their usual business is fine but the support is bad..would you trust this company and buy anything else from it?
And by the way [..]THE END[..] ...


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 17, 2020)

Ronny D. Ana said:


> ...have to suffer from my rant



yes


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 17, 2020)

I think some people need to calm down a bit on here.... It's an announcement not the second coming. It's unlikely that whatever they have in mind will go live after the event anyhow so what's the big deal if you find out a couple hours or minutes after the event? 

If you base your assessment of this developer on how they handle their event announcements rather than the quality of their libraries, you are in store for endless disappointments in life my young friends.


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 17, 2020)

I am proud to share a massive announcement with you.
"Something we started many years ago is entering a new chapter... "

So it's something existing from what I read, moving into a modern 2021 era. Exciting


----------



## OrchestralTools (Dec 17, 2020)

Ronny D. Ana said:


> It is not!
> A company is as good as the weakest link. Imagine you have a simple application with a sole task. The application does not start so you call the company to support you in starting the application but they can not help you for some reasons. What do you think about the company? And even if you think, well their usual business is fine but the support is bad..would you trust this company and buy anything else from it?
> And by the way [..]THE END[..] ...



Hey Ronny,

Eventbrite caps the events automatically, but we've requested more tickets so you can register for the event again! But as we've stated, the event will take place on our YouTube channel tonight at 7pm Berlin time—everyone is invited.

Thank you to everyone who has registered so far. We're stoked the cap was hit and we are really excited for 7pm—looking forward to seeing you all there and sharing the big announcement!

Best,

OT


----------



## Toecutter (Dec 17, 2020)

Cinesamples moved from Sony... Orchestral Tools is in LA now... Mmmmm.....


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 17, 2020)

Toecutter said:


> Cinesamples moved from Sony... Orchestral Tools is in LA now... Mmmmm.....


OT is in LA now?? Or have they expanded their operation and still operate in Germany?


----------



## nowimhere (Dec 17, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> I think people need to chill a bit on here.... It's an announcement not the second coming. It's unlikely that whatever they have in mind will go live after the event anyhow so what's the big deal if you find out a couple hours or minutes after the event?
> 
> If you base your assessment of this developer on how they handle their event announcements rather than the quality of their libraries, you are in store for endless disappointments in life my young friends.


I agree here 💯


----------



## Beans (Dec 17, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> I think people need to chill a bit on here....



For what it's worth, "people" only seems to be two people.


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 17, 2020)

Yeah as OT say, we may have overlooked / forgotten about where it'll be, but it is on the event.







oOOOOoo Not long now! :D


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 17, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> I am proud to share a massive announcement with you.
> "Something we started many years ago is entering a new chapter... "
> 
> So it's something existing from what I read, moving into a modern 2021 era. Exciting



OK..... so let's say "many years" is between 100 and 5 years ago

2011 - Orchestral String Runs​2012 - Symphonic Sphere​2013 - Berlin Woodwinds​2014 - Berlin Strings​2015 - Nocturne Violin​
And "recently" is between 5 years ago and today

2016 - Metropolis Ark 1; Berlin First Chairs​2017 - Metropolis Ark 2; Berlin Brass; Berlin Percussion​2018 - Metropolis Ark 3; BO Inspire​2019 - Metropolis Ark 4; Glory Days big band horns; Time Macro​2020 - JXL Brass; Tableau solo strings; Time Micro​
(And of course I'm missing stuff here.) 

The next one is "massive"....


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (Dec 17, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey Ronny,
> 
> Eventbrite caps the events automatically, but we've requested more tickets so you can register for the event again! But as we've stated, the event will take place on our YouTube channel tonight at 7pm Berlin time—everyone is invited.
> 
> ...



That's a support I can live with. Customer has a problem, company reacts. I am pleasantly surprised!!!

So thank you Orchestral Tools for the opportunity and first of all for your kind reaction!

And sorry folks for having to listen to my rant


----------



## Paul Jelfs (Dec 17, 2020)

Its a Name change - double event. Orchestral Audio, and Spitfire Tools.


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 17, 2020)

nowimhere said:


> I agree here 💯


Good point- I edited my OP to reflect this.


----------



## Casiquire (Dec 17, 2020)

I'm curious why the big theory is SINE support for third party libraries. It makes a ton of sense but nobody expected that out of, say, Spitfire. What points us toward this theory?


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)

AudioLoco said:


> May I genuinely ask what is so exciting about Sine vs Kontakt?
> Cheers.



SINE is awesome. Too many things to mention, just check their site, and learn more about SINE .


----------



## Kevperry777 (Dec 17, 2020)

Speculation: SINE migration and expansion is a given so I don’t think it’s SINE centric. That’s not massive, it’s expected. 

I don’t think you do Eventbrite for a new ARK or normal library either. 

I’m guessing they found a new mine. (Hall to record...like SA with AR1) So a new modular orchestra...seems like LA based makes sense. Perhaps the LA sessions was the gateway to new opportunity. Maybe they are opening an LA “branch”? Or moving to LA even.

All this is fun speculation. I look forward to being wrong and enjoying whatever they announce.


----------



## Wunderhorn (Dec 17, 2020)

I think the big news is that OT has been acquired by Audiobro and therefore the event is being postponed for another decade.


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 17, 2020)

Yeah, it's fun to read all of the speculations (and jokes) while we wait.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 17, 2020)

I just say B S O .


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (Dec 17, 2020)

It's the masterplan and clue to the name Sine. A sine wave recorded at Abbey Road, 20 mic positions, including a mic placed within the stomach of the conductor.


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

How to watch this? In the announcement I read "join us on our YT channel". I go to the OT channel and there is still no live stream announced. I also got a number from event brite. But where to watch to video that is supposed to start in 10 minutes ...? Not very German organization, if you ask me! :-D


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> How to watch this? In the announcement I read "join us on our YT channel". I go to the OT channel and there is still no live stream announced. I also got a number from event bride. But where to watch to video that is supposed to start in 10 minutes ...? Not very German organization, if you ask me! :-D


yeah I am in the same boat. Not sure how we access this and with what channel???


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 17, 2020)

Hope it's not just another Ark edition.


----------



## Technostica (Dec 17, 2020)

Premiere Event!
Does that mean virtual drinks and snacks on YT?
Should I change out of my pyjamas?


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> yeah I am in the same boat. Not sure how we access this and with what channel???


Is it possible they messed this up?


----------



## mybadmemory (Dec 17, 2020)

Is this OTs first live stream? Things like these are usually available on YT at least 24 hours before they start... I think many followers will miss out on this!


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 17, 2020)

mybadmemory said:


> Is this OTs first live stream? Things like these are usually available on YT at least 24 hours before they start... I think many followers will miss out on this!


No, they've done it before. Last year. Its probably a hiccup.


----------



## Manaberry (Dec 17, 2020)

Just finished my apero on time.


----------



## mybadmemory (Dec 17, 2020)

It’s on YT now. But moved 15 minutes forward!


----------



## Dirk Ehlert (Dec 17, 2020)

Looks like 15 mins delayed


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 17, 2020)

Manaberry said:


> Just finished my apero on time.



Now you're talking - (heads off to the wine fridge....now where's that bottle of prosecco ?)


----------



## Pixelpoet1985 (Dec 17, 2020)

Thanks. But why these tickets if it's available on YouTube?


----------



## Francis Bourre (Dec 17, 2020)




----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Ok, so it finally IS on their YT channel ... poof! Evening entertainment is saved! Now, time to get junk food and beers!


----------



## davidanthony (Dec 17, 2020)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Thanks. But why these tickets if it's available in YouTube?



The more e-mail addresses and geo-data available for harvest, the better!


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 17, 2020)

After this 15mins, watch OT troll us with another 15. XD


----------



## mybadmemory (Dec 17, 2020)

TV turned on. Candles lit. Chocolate ready. Let’s do it! 📺🕯🍫


----------



## andyhy (Dec 17, 2020)

2 am in the morning here and I have absolutely no idea how to joint the event. Eventbrite bit just confuses me. Free ticket but no clear guidance as to how to join. Clicked on one link and received an email in German. Probably just click the JOIN box here.


----------



## andyhy (Dec 17, 2020)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Thanks. But why these tickets if it's available on YouTube?


I ask the same question. Was that really necessary?


----------



## mybadmemory (Dec 17, 2020)

andyhy said:


> 2 am in the morning here and I have absolutely no idea how to joint the event. Eventbrite bit just confuses me. Free ticket but no clear guidance as to how to join. Clicked on one link and received an email in German. Probably just click the JOIN box here.


It’s on their YT channel now. Better late than never.


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Now I get it ... this was all to enhance the drama a little. Now, if Hendrik will say "and one more thing ..." tonight, I think OT is on the way to leave even Spitfire behind them in marketing show!


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (Dec 17, 2020)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Thanks. But why these tickets if it's available on YouTube?



Who knows...?!?!?!?
The Eventbrite says JOIN LIVE NOW: 

It is obviously a matter of catching email addresses. That is the reason why every company gets its own email address from me. So I can retrace who uses the distinguished address and what it is done with it.
Works very well and is very helpful when going to court.


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

andyhy said:


> I ask the same question. Was that really necessary?


Yes, to collect data about you ...


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 17, 2020)

So the Event Bright page link I go to basically shows the same YT link... haha.


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> So the Event Bright page link I go to basically shows the same YT link... haha.


Yes, but it made you feel special!


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Yes, but it made you feel special!



For a moment yes


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

So, now ... for the countdown after the countdown!


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 17, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> For a moment yes


yeah for 2 seconds.. .


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

WOOHOO! A COMPRESSION ALGORITHM!!!!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 17, 2020)

Super compression! Is OT really Pied Piper?


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (Dec 17, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> So the Event Bright page link I go to basically shows the same YT link... haha.



That's marketing...


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

So BBCSO Berklee then?


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (Dec 17, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> So BBCSO Berkley then?


Whate else ... :-D


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

New larger (40%) EDU discount.


----------



## Kent (Dec 17, 2020)

Berklee, not Berkeley


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Scotty just announced new strings!


----------



## mojamusic (Dec 17, 2020)

Berlin Symphonic Strings?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 17, 2020)

2021 is really the year of string libraries. BSS, MSS, OPUS, Spitfire Abbey Road, what else.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu


----------



## MA-Simon (Dec 17, 2020)

Noice! RR Legato!


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

That's more like it! Sounds fantastic and 399EUR seems very reasonable.

This presentation has the energy of a sombre wake though.


----------



## Wunderhorn (Dec 17, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> 2021 is really the year of string libraries. BSS, MSS, OPUS, Spitfire Abbey Road, what else.



Don't forget about Century Strings 2.0.
Audiobro MSS was postponed to next year. Quite frankly, that's what I am interested to get more information on first.


----------



## Manaberry (Dec 17, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu


Time to remake your template my friend. HAHA


----------



## Larbguy (Dec 17, 2020)

ooooooh pattern legato


----------



## MaxOctane (Dec 17, 2020)

Sounds lurvely


----------



## Toecutter (Dec 17, 2020)

Wunderhorn said:


> Audiobro MSS was postponed to next year. Quite frankly, that's what I am interested to get more information on first.


Audiobro is seriously sleeping... they should post a demo asap


----------



## Kent (Dec 17, 2020)

Toecutter said:


> Audiobro is seriously sleeping... they should post a demo asap


Why?


----------



## Brasart (Dec 17, 2020)

The new stuff is great but I can't stop laughing at how awkward the presentation is, previously the background was a concrete grey wall and now they look like a super-villain organization in their secret base


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

The rapid legato sounds pretty good!


----------



## Toecutter (Dec 17, 2020)

kmaster said:


> Why?


A lot of people would like to hear MSS and decide if it's worth the wait or not. Money is finite and there's a lot being released or announced at the same time.


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 17, 2020)

Sounds great so far


----------



## robgb (Dec 17, 2020)

Sounds nice. But is it worth leaving Kontakt? Personally for me, no.


----------



## Wunderhorn (Dec 17, 2020)

Toecutter said:


> Audiobro is seriously sleeping... they should post a demo asap



Still waters run deep. Sometimes it is the slow or quiet ones that take the cake.
It's down to sound demos, facts and workflow. For the latter criteria Sine is a clear argument against OT at the moment, at least in my books.


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

Any minute now Jack Bauer is going to blow the doors and set these poor women free.


----------



## Toecutter (Dec 17, 2020)

Wunderhorn said:


> Still waters run deep. Sometimes it is the slow or quiet ones that take the cake.
> It's down to sound demos, facts and workflow. For the latter criteria Sine is a clear argument against OT at the moment, at least in my books.


I hope you are right! MSS on paper is the perfect strings library


----------



## nickhmusic (Dec 17, 2020)

i was excited before. I am no longer excited.


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 17, 2020)

robgb said:


> Sounds nice. But is it worth leaving Kontakt? Personally for me, no.



If it becomes as stable, and the price? Worth a punt you not think?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 17, 2020)

Brasart said:


> The new stuff is great but I can't stop laughing at how awkward the presentation is, previously the background was a concrete grey wall and now they look like a super-villain organization in their secret base



They are taking a page (or ten) from another developer's marketing plan but it's definitely dragging a bit. They should've saved some of these bits for post-stream videos IMO.


----------



## muddyblue (Dec 17, 2020)

nickhmusic said:


> i was excited before. I am no longer excited.


me too


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

So how do we get credit for owning Berlin Strings? That's not clear from the website.


----------



## robgb (Dec 17, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> If it becomes as stable, and the price? Worth a punt you not think?


Until I can go behind the wrench, I'm less inclined to buy. That doesn't mean I won't. But I do hesitate.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

robgb said:


> Sounds nice. But is it worth leaving Kontakt? Personally for me, no.


Since Berlin Strings don't work all that well in Kontakt, yes.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Dec 17, 2020)

Almost cried when I heard Berlin Brass is having an additionnal layer :')


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

If you're bored of watching the film stuff, Berlin Symphonic Strings is actually out already. I'm downloading it right now.


----------



## coprhead6 (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> So how do we get credit for owning Berlin Strings? That's not clear from the website.



Usually the discount is automatically applied to your account. That's how it works when I look at JXL instruments since I own the trombone.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

nickhmusic said:


> i was excited before. I am no longer excited.




Let me guess, you're one of those people who bragged about not watching an episode of game of thrones




whitewasteland said:


> Almost cried when I heard Berlin Brass is having an additionnal layer :')



lets just cry together


----------



## paularthur (Dec 17, 2020)

Lovely sound.


----------



## mybadmemory (Dec 17, 2020)

*SUMMARY*

* New Compression Format
* Berklee Collaboration & Education Discounts
* Improved Berlin Series in SINE Player
* Berlin Symphonic Strings with new Legato Approach
* Info about the sister company Scoring Berlin
* SINE Factory (their version of LABS = free stuff)


----------



## Manaberry (Dec 17, 2020)

This is what a keynote is all about. It was a great show @OrchestralTools , Congrats! 2021 will be a Grand cru.


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 17, 2020)

So Symphonic Strings is out now?
I'm not lazy, just in a car lol


----------



## pawelmorytko (Dec 17, 2020)

whitewasteland said:


> Almost cried when I heard Berlin Brass is having an additionnal layer :')


Highlight of the announcement in my opinion. Looking forward to getting some of the Berlin Brass ensemble patches when it is a la carte!


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> So Symphonic Strings is out now?
> I'm not lazy, just in a car lol


Yup - 74GB download. 

168 GB of samples (74,4 GB SINEarc compressed)


----------



## Pixelpoet1985 (Dec 17, 2020)

The Symphonic Strings are a bit low on articulations, in my opinion.


----------



## andyhy (Dec 17, 2020)

A lot to take in but looks very promising.


----------



## Robert_G (Dec 17, 2020)

Did they fix the SINE player yet?


----------



## Ihnoc (Dec 17, 2020)

Totally open to shelling more on Orchestral Tools products! Where's that EUR299 upgrade for Strings owners (or did you have to not buy it in the recent sale?) @OrchestralTools @OT_Tobias


----------



## MaxOctane (Dec 17, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Did they fix the SINE player yet?



Yes, it's fixed now.


----------



## Beans (Dec 17, 2020)

Ihnoc said:


> Totally open to shelling more on Orchestral Tools products! Where's that EUR299 upgrade for Strings owners (or did you have to not buy it in the recent sale?) @OrchestralTools @OT_Tobias



You'll be prompted to enter your Berlin Strings serial number in the Promotions field during the checkout process.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Usually the discount is automatically applied to your account. That's how it works when I look at JXL instruments since I own the trombone.


But Berlin Strings is not yet a Sine library so it's not in the account...


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Dec 17, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Usually the discount is automatically applied to your account. That's how it works when I look at JXL instruments since I own the trombone.



What discount do you get for owning the trombone? I added up the single instruments from a few libraries, and together they are more than a 50% increase in price over the whole library. I'm wondering what the upgrade pricing is if you own just a couple of instruments in a library. Do you get a full credit for what you have already paid for the single instrument(s) you own?


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

Justin L. Franks said:


> What discount do you get for owning the trombone?


It's a sliding scale.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

Justin L. Franks said:


> What discount do you get for owning the trombone? I added up the single instruments from a few libraries, and together they are more than a 50% increase in price over the whole library. I'm wondering what the upgrade pricing is if you own just a couple of instruments in a library. Do you get a full credit for what you have already paid for the single instrument(s) you own?


For JXL Brass, I was told by OT that you receive about 70% credit toward the full library on the individual instruments you bought.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> So how do we get credit for owning Berlin Strings? That's not clear from the website.


If you take the new library in the basket, it says for owners of Berlin Strings to type in your serial into the coupon field.

*Edit @Beans first!


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

You just enter the Berlin Strings code you got (the Kontakt number) in the voucher field. Then you will see it automatically subtracts 100 bucks. I just bought it. That was a pretty easy choice.


----------



## coprhead6 (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> But Berlin Strings is not yet a Sine library so it's not in the account...


Just saw this in another thread:
“
You just enter the Berlin Strings code you got (the Kontakt number) in the voucher field. Then you will see it automatically subtracts 100 bucks.”


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

Marsen said:


> If you take the new library in the basket, it says for owners of Berlin Strings to type in your serial into the coupon field.


Cool, I didn't get that far into the process because I didn't want to accidentally buy it at the more expensive price.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

Wish there was more demos of the spiccato/staccato/marcatos.... I'm liking ben's demo which shows how the bouncy-er articulations can work, and nice contrast with the legato. 

having spiccato, staccato, marcato short, and long makes it lightyears easier to form more energetic lines, as well as fit with other lines already using this approach(like berlin brass and JXL)


----------



## Artemi (Dec 17, 2020)

can someone please record some examples of mics differences once you download it?
I wonder how many dynamic layers are there?


----------



## Sovereign (Dec 17, 2020)

Hmm, no information on the number of dynamic layers?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Wish there was more demos of the spiccato/staccato/marcatos.... I'm liking ben's demo which shows how the bouncy-er articulations can work, and nice contrast with the legato.
> 
> having spiccato, staccato, marcato short, and long makes it lightyears easier to form more energetic lines, as well as fit with other lines already using this approach(like berlin brass and JXL)


I like the way you pretend to be evaluating it when you know very well it will end up in your cart!


----------



## PaulieDC (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> So how do we get credit for owning Berlin Strings? That's not clear from the website.


You enter your Berlin Strings serial number as the Promo Code and it knocks the additional 100 off. Just tried it.

Almost panicked, where's my serial number, I usually have those saved, lol! But I logged into NI's site and since BS is Kontakt, they have the serial numbers available from your account.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Cool, I didn't get that far into the process because I didn't want to accidentally buy it at the more expensive price.



Yeah, I´m more on the light-headed side, ups


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I like the way you pretend to be evaluating it when you know very well it will end up in your cart!



I just want to see more of my present while I wait until the end of the month for my next paycheck.




Sovereign said:


> Hmm, no information on the number of dynamic layers?



Says 4, but not sure if that's every articulation or not, without a walkthrough


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Dec 17, 2020)

Sovereign said:


> Hmm, no information on the number of dynamic layers?


Website says :
"Four dynamic levels—from pianissimo to triple forte—plus numerous articulations for maximum expression"


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

Ironically - strings I've got sitting with JXL fine, it's the woodwinds that are hard to line up with JXL section sizes.


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Ironically - strings I've got sitting with JXL fine, it's the woodwinds that are hard to line up with JXL section sizes.


What are you using with JXL? I've been hoping for JXL Strings but this will do!


----------



## Artemi (Dec 17, 2020)

Do I need it? No
Do I want it? Yes


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> What are you using with JXL? I've been hoping for JXL Strings but this will do!



Honestly just berlin strings with an EQ match IR on the close mics.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> For JXL Brass, I was told by OT that you receive about 70% credit toward the full library on the individual instruments you bought.



So if there's a $500 library and you purchased $100 of single instruments, you would get a $70 credit, making it $430 to get everything else?

That's quite fair. You would end up paying only $30 more ($100 for the single instrument + $430 for the rest of the library) than if you bought the whole library from the start.

This definitely makes it more attractive to get a couple of single instruments.

Thanks!


----------



## Artemi (Dec 17, 2020)

for some reason some of the demos remind me of cinestrings


----------



## MA-Simon (Dec 17, 2020)

Does not look like there is vibrato control?


----------



## PaulieDC (Dec 17, 2020)

The dilemma: another string library?? But even with startup woes that all new libraries have, there's the potential for fixes and expansions. Is it better to grab it now at $299 (I own BS)? Not really asking, just the classic struggle.

Honestly, as somebody newer/starting out with Orchestration, it's actually confusing to have so many libraries. Almost want to holler at myself and just say "use EWSO and shut up until you know how to compose".

I'll pass. I'm enrolling at BerkleeOnline tomorrow anyway for a 3-semester Live Sound certificate course, then will switch to Orchestration in Fall 2021. I'll use my discount then, sounds like it'll be a required library by then. Have to admit the timing is pretty awesome. Plus, the number of accomplished composers on this site is quite amazing and you all will be piping in with your take on the new BSyS, so I'll be looking forward to that!


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)




----------



## river angler (Dec 17, 2020)

Artemi said:


> for some reason some of the demos remind me of cinestrings



I agree!... almost sound too polished... but ones perspective can change when you actually start working with them in your own system- demos can sometimes be deceiving


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 17, 2020)

Yeah, really looking to forward in January to get the 40%, that's a genius move. Thanks OT!!


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> But Berlin Strings is not yet a Sine library so it's not in the account...



Yes, that's true. I was hoping it would have been ported to SINE, but not yet. Hopefully early next year. 

Also the rest of the Berlin Series in SINE, the sooner the better.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

Justin L. Franks said:


> So if there's a $500 library and you purchased $100 of single instruments, you would get a $70 credit, making it $430 to get everything else?
> 
> That's quite fair. You would end up paying only $30 more ($100 for the single instrument + $430 for the rest of the library) than if you bought the whole library from the start.
> 
> ...


According to the Store, I'm getting a 40 Euro credit for owning the solo trombone.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)

I have OT-Berlin Strings, and love it. 

But I always wished I could get a larger more cinematic strings sound out of them, well, now I can. 

Thank You Very Much OT for making *Berlin Symphonic Strings*, offering Large Cinematic String Sections  Also the nice discount for Berlin Strings Owners. 

I'm so excited, and looking forward to see the rest of the Berlin Series in SINE.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 17, 2020)

Sovereign said:


> Hmm, no information on the number of dynamic layers?


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> Does not look like there is vibrato control?


There is:-


----------



## LudovicVDP (Dec 17, 2020)

Damn... Another Strings library I can't afford right now... 
List is getting longer and longer. 

Sounds nice!


----------



## youngpokie (Dec 17, 2020)

mybadmemory said:


> *SUMMARY*
> 
> * New Compression Format
> * Berklee Collaboration & Education Discounts
> ...



I think it was a combined Consumer and TV/Film industry announcement. 

The industry part had to do with full sound matching between mockups made with OT instruments for presentation to directors etc and then recorded on location at Teldex. "It will sound like your mockup", basically.... And now they put a recording package together along the lines of "one stop shop" model, with single point of contact, licensing, buyouts (!) and so on. 

But what really stood out to me was how different is the OT concept of the modular orchestra. You build your modular orchestra across all OT libraries and everything will match because it's recorded at Teldex. Compare this with the competitive approach where your modules are ensembles, sections and players coming online throughout the year...

This ties in perfectly with the Berklee announcement. You basically have a Teldex sound at every life stage, from school to the release of your soundtrack CD...

I have to say this is very smart on OT's part.


----------



## oooooooooooooooooh (Dec 17, 2020)

I'm actually kind of relieved Berlin Symphonic Strings this isn't something I'm that interested in—seems like a fabulous product, but it's not exactly the sound I'm going for. I just got Berlin Strings and I absolutely love it, at this point I'm just hoping for a sale on the expansions for that and the woodwinds soon.

Now, porting these to Sine (and .spc format), the new free subscription service, and MAYBE even the Berklee orchestra _are_ very interesting to me! I'm curious to know what it has compared to Berlin.

For now, I'm just happy that my wallet has been mostly spared by OT...for the time being. It won't be for long, I'm sure...


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 17, 2020)

That's Christmas presents bought and sorted


----------



## Pappaus (Dec 17, 2020)

I can’t afford another string library (bummer) but I have to say, when OT promises an announcement, they deliver!!!


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Sovereign said:


> Hmm, no information on the number of dynamic layers?


I have downloaded the violins 1 so far and they all got 4 layers, except for pizzicato and trills which have 3 layers.


----------



## Sovereign (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> I have downloaded the violins 1 so far and they all got 4 layers, except for pizzicato and trills which have 3 layers.


Legatos too? Any first impressions?


----------



## Casiquire (Dec 17, 2020)

I don't know what all the negativity was about. This announcement was pretty awesome aside from the bit of awkwardness. I think it's easier to present when there's a full audience lol! But we're getting FF layers in the brass, they're making a new orchestral product for Berklee students, Berlin Symphonic Strings...this is good stuff and clearly they do care about updating old libraries. They're even bringing (at least most of) the expansions into SINE and making tweaks to them as well. It makes me think there might be an update for the original Berlin Strings when it ports over too.

I'm still waiting to get demos and walkthroughs of a certain competitor because they'll offer divisi, but this announcement was pretty cool to me.

Never did i expect that I'd be this happy about a Black Friday buy that keeps on giving


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> According to the Store, I'm getting a 40 Euro credit for owning the solo trombone.



Perfect. Thanks again!


----------



## Marsen (Dec 17, 2020)

Seriously, 299 + VAT seems to be a steal for this.
I´m so happy to have pulled the trigger on BF.

Also, the free FFF Layer for Berlin Brass gives me an even better feel.
It is, like you invested into the right thing. Not because of the money. Cause I love the OT sound & playability.

Although I´m really in recovery mode, it seems like I took the right road with OT.
I´m not a fan of proprietary players, as mentioned several times before, but SINE seems to have some advantages over kontakt and it´s stable so far.
...at the same time, there is just one huge NI Sale going on, which doesn´t belong to this thread, but anyway...hard decisions to make.

Decisions like this, going the OT Route, does mean for me, not going the SA AR1 Route for the entire next year.
But who knows...
Anyway, great news from OT.


----------



## Luke W (Dec 17, 2020)

Are they converting all libraries to the new compression format?


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

I'd RTFM if there were an M, but is Rapid Legato only for runs (ie adjacent notes)? I'm getting pretty janky results with arpeggios. Sounds like a synth with too much portamento!


----------



## GingerMaestro (Dec 17, 2020)

Peter Satera said:


> Yeah, really looking to forward in January to get the 40%, that's a genius move. Thanks OT!!


What is the 40% in January...I seem to have missed that...thanks


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

GingerMaestro said:


> What is the 40% in January...I seem to have missed that...thanks


New increased EDU discount.


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Sovereign said:


> Legatos too? Any first impressions?


Only very first rough impressions, cause I literally spent a few minutes with just the the first violins tree and spot 1 mic:

- most legatos sound pretty washed
- the new legato approaches are not very flexible as far as I can see now: e.g. the pattern legatos work nice for played trills, but as soon as you play chord-figures, you hear uneven notes and it sounds artificial
- using modulation wheel on the legatos creates problems within lines
- the melodic legato works fine
- I like the wealth of short notes that usually come with OT releases

Altogether: I am not really blown away, but having Berlin Strings it is a good complementary library and some things might also be improved. Also, I suppose I will need some time to understand which patch works good for what and that might change my first impression somewhat. I can't see this to become a must-have, though, to be honest.


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Only very first rough comparisons, cause I literally spent a few minutes with just the the first violins


Could you try the Cello with Rapid Legato? I'm getting weird uneven triggering/retriggering, unnatural portamento and the ambience dropping in and out. Doesn't seem to happen on the others - just the Celli so far.


----------



## axb312 (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Only very first rough comparisons, cause I literally spent a few minutes with just the the first violins tree and spot 1 mic:
> 
> - most legatos sound pretty washed
> - the new legato approaches are not very flexible as far as I can see now: e.g. the pattern legatos work nice for played trills, but as soon as you play chord-figures, you hear uneven notes and it sounds artificial
> ...



How many RRs on the shorts here?

The demo Magical forest doesn't sound too great to me. Washy as you say and weird releases/ attacks...


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> Could you try the Cello with Rapid Legato? I'm getting weird uneven triggering/retriggering, unnatural portamento and the ambience dropping in and out. Doesn't seem to happen on the others - just the Celli so far.


Maybe later ... I am still downloading the Violas


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

axb312 said:


> How many RRs on the shorts here?
> 
> The demo Magical forest doesn't sound too great to me. Washy as you say and weird releases/ attacks...


4 RRs on all shorts except for the pizz as I already mentioned. I honestly cannot tell anything about how the shorts work in an arrangement - obviously, as I only have the violins for a few moments so far!  

Regarding washy: You have to understand that there rarely is a large string group that sounds excellent on agile programming. You mostly buy such a library for the large expressive lines. This library will be able to deliver those with a similar esthetic compared to Berlin Strings Main.

Following the announcement, I had the feeling they had done all to make this huge section very agile. That may be the case, but it didn't work for me right away by playing through some patches. However, I am completely new to this library. I simply hadn't that out of the box feel "wow, this plays great". That is all I am saying. The library may still be pretty useful.


----------



## star.keys (Dec 17, 2020)

Can someone post some examples using legato transitions using just the closed mics? These sounded pretty meh to my ears in that promo live stream but I'm hoping that I heard something wrong.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 17, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> I don't know what all the negativity was about. This announcement was pretty awesome aside from the bit of awkwardness. I think it's easier to present when there's a full audience lol! But we're getting FF layers in the brass, they're making a new orchestral product for Berklee students, Berlin Symphonic Strings...this is good stuff and clearly they do care about updating old libraries. They're even bringing (at least most of) the expansions into SINE and making tweaks to them as well. It makes me think there might be an update for the original Berlin Strings when it ports over too.
> 
> I'm still waiting to get demos and walkthroughs of a certain competitor because they'll offer divisi, but this announcement was pretty cool to me.
> 
> Never did i expect that I'd be this happy about a Black Friday buy that keeps on giving



Exactly this!


----------



## Scalms (Dec 17, 2020)

I am genuinely contented with today’s reveal, although I must say I am a little eensy weensy disappointed they didn’t announce an end of year/ holiday sale


----------



## Saya (Dec 17, 2020)

Scalms said:


> I am genuinely contented with today’s reveal, although I must say I am a little eensy weensy disappointed they didn’t announce an end of year/ holiday sale



You dont really expect this... OT rarely has sale event. Only 3 times(2 for BF)in total hostorically. If you want something you should be aiming at intro/pre-order price if possible


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Saya said:


> If you want something you should be aiming at intro/pre-order price if possible



Well, that is what they want you to do, of course!  I am sure there will be more Black Friday sales and other ones coming up. Never be in a hurry to get something! That is the best advice concerting sample libraries ...


----------



## AEF (Dec 17, 2020)

Some aspects of the demos sounds quite stunning having listened to more of them now.

But the agile legatos, a big supposed selling point, is IMO the weakest part.


----------



## Saya (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Well, that is what they want you to do, of course!  I am sure there will be more Black Friday sales and other ones coming up. Never be in a hurry to get something! That is the best advice concerting sample libraries ...



Not really, the most possible chances for OT sales are libraries from NKS -> SINE case ONLY(or NI sale). Other cases are quite random and almost at zero chance. 
OT is a company never has any sale before year of 2018..
And FYI the so-called 3 sales, 2 of them are only Berlin main libraries.

You dont really expect a sale for OT. If it has some, then lucky enough(like this BF), if not, then that is it.


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Only very first rough impressions, cause I literally spent a few minutes with just the the first violins tree and spot 1 mic:
> 
> - most legatos sound pretty washed
> - the new legato approaches are not very flexible as far as I can see now: e.g. the pattern legatos work nice for played trills, but as soon as you play chord-figures, you hear uneven notes and it sounds artificial
> ...



Would it not be best to hold off until you get the full library and spend some time with it before saying 'altogether you're not blown away'. As you say, you have yet to download the violas and the mics. It's only been out a few hours, I would suggest take the time to digest the lib once you have it all, before stating it needs improved upon or complemented by berlin strings.


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Peter Satera said:


> Would it not be best to hold off until you get the full library and spend some time with it before saying 'altogether you're not blown away'. As you say, you have yet to download the violas and the mics. It's only been out a few hours, I would suggest take the time to digest the lib once you have it all, before stating it needs improved upon or complemented by berlin strings.


No ...


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 17, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> Yes, it's fixed now.


SINE Player for me takes ages to load

I only have it due to the MODUS Competition they ran... but I find it clunky and it causes my macOS to beachball in standalone at least.


----------



## Scalms (Dec 17, 2020)

Saya said:


> You dont really expect this... OT rarely has sale event. Only 3 times(2 for BF)in total hostorically. If you want something you should be aiming at intro/pre-order price if possible


Yeah I know, I’m trying to use a little suggestive psychology here. Once OT reads my post they will immediately convene a board of directors meeting and light bulbs will go off everywhere and they will discount all their libraries 40% for Christmas


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> No ...



That's fine. I expect knee-jerk reactions but these opinions are rarely seen as valid, to state it needs improved upon, while saying you don't have anything else other than 1st violins and a few mics. But each to their own.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> SINE Player for me takes ages to load
> 
> I only have it due to the MODUS Competition they ran... but I find it clunky and it causes my macOS to beachball in standalone at least.


Also on Mac here. I've had some issues with Sine, especially using Amber, but it's been pretty stable for me recently. It seems no slower than any other sample player in loading. And I rarely get beach balls with it.


----------



## fourteentoone (Dec 17, 2020)

Just a FWIW, I've downloaded the whole library and thought I'd try it out on a project. It works great, sounds is great, blends great, and I find the patches highly playable. It is extremely clean sounding but I find that the sound has a bit of personality to it too. The players don't sound bored, (even though they probably are as it's ... sampling). Shorts are also really nice. I'm impressed so far. No problems with SINE Player either (and I was someone that had massive problems with it before v1.05). Just my own thoughts, no I don't work for OT. lol


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Generally, I must say, the quality of demos used to be way higher with OT than with this release (but partly also other late releases). I don't know why they lost that quality ... are they paying the demo composers not well enough? Or has it to do with the libraries? Anyway, demos are certainly important for selling the products! They should take better care of that in the future. Some of the demos with this release really sound dilettantish!


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 17, 2020)

I really think we should consider a complete sub-site on VI-Control for Strings Libraries... those poor algorithms!


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Generally, I must say, the quality of demos used to be way higher with OT than with this release (but partly also other late releases). I don't know why they lost that quality ... are they paying the demo composers not well enough? Or has it to do with the libraries? Anyway, demos are certainly important for selling the products! They should take better care of that in the future. Some of the demos with this release really sound dilettantish!



Wondering, what convinced you to buy? There's no walk-through, only a few examples during the stream and you don't like the demos.


----------



## szczaw (Dec 17, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> Honestly, as somebody newer/starting out with Orchestration, it's actually confusing to have so many libraries. Almost want to holler at myself and just say "use EWSO and shut up until you know how to compose".



I got HO diamond earlier because of the big discount, but I'm starting to think that I don't need anything else and watch all these new releases with a sense of detachment. I may even ignore the new OPUS 

The video confirmed my thinking of OT libraries as the most compressive and cohesive collection of orchestral instruments recorded in the same space.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

One thing that's interesting about this release: Normally OT has the intro price expire when the library is released. And they've struggled to get demos and walkthroughs out before the prerelease price expired, so you feel like you are buying without having the full picture. Here they released the library with lots of demos, but without walkthroughs, and a fairly long period for the intro price so there will be lots of user demos available. I have to say I much prefer this release strategy.


----------



## MaxOctane (Dec 17, 2020)

Peter Satera said:


> That's fine. I expect knee-jerk reactions but these opinions are rarely seen as valid, to state it needs improved upon, while saying you don't have anything else other than 1st violins and a few mics. But each to their own.



ALL reactions and all reviews are valid, even if they're after just a few minutes or "first playthroughs". @MGdepp very clearly states that these were his immediate impressions after a few minutes dabbling. So, now we have the first "first-impression" review, and we wait for more in-detail reviews. 

Really, so long as the person sharing their review is clear about how much time/effort they put into the product, it's the responsibility of the *reader* to gauge for themselves how to interpret the opinion of others.


----------



## musicisum (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Generally, I must say, the quality of demos used to be way higher with OT than with this release (but partly also other late releases). I don't know why they lost that quality ... are they paying the demo composers not well enough? Or has it to do with the libraries? Anyway, demos are certainly important for selling the products! They should take better care of that in the future. Some of the demos with this release really sound dilettantish!



Which demos do you mean? I find the runs here and therd quite convincing, and will probably buy only the Celli to start with bss.


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Peter Satera said:


> Wondering, what convinced you to buy? There's no walk-through, only a few examples during the stream and you don't like the demos.


I don't like some of the demos at all and I didn't listen to most of those before buying. Also, my remark about the demos was not related to the library - at least not entirely. Every experienced composer should know that it is more about the artist than the tool being used. But it might have to do with compensation for writing the demos or other factors ... that was a different thought!

I bought the library right away, because I have almost everything from OT and usually like most of their libraries. I was just a little underwhelmed with certain aspects of this library compared to the presentation. I made no secret out of the fact that I only had parts of the library when I wrote those lines (now I have all instruments in tree and Spot 1, by the way). 

I hope this will end your dismay with my postings! 

Sincerely
Your Sample musician trying to help other musicians!


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

musicisum said:


> Which demos do you mean? I find the runs here and therd quite convincing, and will probably buy only the Celli to start with bss.


Sorry, I cannot mention specific ones, as there are names of actual people attached ... listen for yourself.


----------



## Sean (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> No ...


I appreciate the initial first impressions especially when there isn't a walkthrough video yet.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 17, 2020)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> SINE Player for me takes ages to load
> 
> I only have it due to the MODUS Competition they ran... but I find it clunky and it causes my macOS to beachball in standalone at least.



So this is interesting, as I seem to have the same computer setup (mac mini 2018 i7 , well now with 64Gb Ram). Mac OS is Mojave though.
SINE loads really fast for me.


----------



## musicisum (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Sorry, I cannot mention specific ones, as there are names of actual people attached ... listen for yourself.


I find some really, really great - some others not that much, but that more synth-y sound is surely because of one's mock-up skills.


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

star.keys said:


> Can someone post some examples using legato transitions using just the closed mics? These sounded pretty meh to my ears in that promo live stream but I'm hoping that I heard something wrong.


Close mics first followed by Close+Tree+Outriggers


----------



## Alex Niedt (Dec 17, 2020)

For the demo junkies...here's a demo that isn't on the site yet


----------



## Peter Satera (Dec 17, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> ALL reactions and all reviews are valid, even if they're after just a few minutes or "first playthroughs". MGdepp very clearly states that these were his immediate impressions after a few minutes dabbling. So, now we have the first "first-impression" review, and we wait for more in-detail reviews.
> 
> Really, so long as the person sharing their review is clear about how much time/effort they put into the product, it's the responsibility of the *reader* to gauge for themselves how to interpret the opinion of others.



Sure. I think it was the term 'Altogether' which somewhat surprised me. As someone that writes for Beta's I don't even like to assume I can comprehend an entire libraries potential before final release / complete release. As I said though, each to their own, these opinions are usually left to the sample discussion and not on the commercial announcement too. I have no dismay @MGdepp. Just stating some patience to test the lot as an overall digest from you would be of greater benefit rather than an opinion segmented per instrument / mic.


Now that you have it, I look forward to demonstrating any pros/cons if you have time or if they are to come.


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Well, I assume most of those composers are usually not paid for their work. You get what you pay for, as they say. For sure, quite often composers get not paid nearly as much as they should compared to other professions ... But why a highly profitable company working in the very business of music like OT doesn't get that is beyond me ...


----------



## Marsen (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> I bought the library right away, because I have almost everything from OT and usually like most of their libraries. I was just a little underwhelmed with certain aspects of this library compared to the presentation. I made no secret out of the fact that I only had parts of the library when I wrote those lines (now I have all instruments in tree and Spot 1, by the way).
> 
> Sincerely
> Your Sample musician trying to help other musicians!



I really appreciate your effort in sharing your first impressions on the library with the community.


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 17, 2020)

river angler said:


> I agree!... almost sound too polished... but ones perspective can change when you actually start working with them in your own system- demos can sometimes be deceiving



Teldex and MGM/Sony rooms are very close in their modes.


----------



## Sips Tea (Dec 17, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> Close mics first followed by Close+Tree+Outriggers



Is it me or do the players sound spaced out? I looked at the pictures on the OT website and players seem to be spaced further apart than they would ordinarily be? Or am I wrong?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 17, 2020)

Marsen said:


> So this is interesting, as I seem to have the same computer setup (mac mini 2018 i7 , well now with 64Gb Ram). Mac OS is Mojave though.
> SINE loads really fast for me.


Crapalina strikes again it seems


----------



## Sovereign (Dec 17, 2020)

Could someone play a couple of notes using cellos, violas and vlns, softest layer, maximum vibrato?


----------



## NathanTiemeyer (Dec 17, 2020)

So will this finally be the library that teaches me how to actually write for strings?  
Congrats on the release OT, it sounds beautiful!


----------



## Chungus (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Well, I assume most of those composers are usually not paid for their work. You get what you pay for, as they say. For sure, quite often composers get not paid nearly as much as they should compared to other professions ... But why a highly profitable company working in the very business of music like OT doesn't get that is beyond me ...


You _probably_ shouldn't go accusing a company of extracting under-paid labour from artists without something to back that claim up. Especially on that company's commercial thread. That seems like a way to get banned.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 17, 2020)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Crapalina strikes again it seems



Well, I´m a bit happy acting conservative in staying on an old OS.
Mojave did some odd things too lately, but since the last security update, it behaves kind of "normal". 
Back to topic...


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 17, 2020)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I really think we should consider a complete sub-site on VI-Control for Strings Libraries... those poor algorithms!



There is... it's called Sample Talk.


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

Sips Tea said:


> Is it me or do the players sound spaced out? I looked at the pictures on the OT website and players seem to be spaced further apart than they would ordinarily be? Or am I wrong?


Might be that flu that's going round?


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 17, 2020)

Sips Tea said:


> Is it me or do the players sound spaced out?


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> There is... it's called Sample Talk.


It's about string libraries and a small sample of other sections


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Chungus said:


> You _probably_ shouldn't go accusing a company of extracting under-paid labour from artists without something to back that claim up. Especially on that company's commercial thread. That seems like a way to get banned.


Hmmm ... the thing is though, EVERY demo composer I asked got nothing in compensation for his work except for an NFR copy of the library. So, I cannot know for sure what everyone got payed, but it is safe to assume that unpaid composing for sample library companies is quite the norm ... why would speaking up regarding the topic be a reason to get banned? It is for real ... maybe the top known demo composers will get some compensation, the rest has to live upon fame and libraries.


----------



## AceAudioHQ (Dec 17, 2020)

musicisum said:


> I find some really, really great - some others not that much, but that more synth-y sound is surely because of one's mock-up skills.



I listened to the demos and found that it sounds like a nice strings library, but that was the problem, it sounded like a strings library


----------



## Alex Niedt (Dec 17, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Hmmm ... the thing is though, EVERY demo composer I asked got nothing in compensation for his work except for an NFR copy of the library. So, I cannot know for sure what everyone got payed, but it is safe to assume that unpaid composing for sample library companies is quite the norm ... why would speaking up regarding the topic be a reason to get banned? It is for real ... maybe the top known demo composers will get some compensation, the rest has to live upon fame and libraries.


Just to put this to rest, your assumption is not correct. Orchestral Tools very much values the people they work with. I think we can move along from here without getting into how much people are making.


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 17, 2020)

Alex Niedt said:


> Just to put this to rest, your assumption is not correct. Orchestral Tools very much values the people they work with. I think we can move along from here without getting into how much people are making.


I am happy for you, man!  I won't ask how much it was, no fear ...


----------



## turnerofwheels (Dec 17, 2020)

musicisum said:


> I find some really, really great - some others not that much, but that more synth-y sound is surely because of one's mock-up skills.



Same. In particular some of the octave doubling sent me back to the early 00's.

Very nice sound overall though. I'm sure like any other library it has its strengths and weaknesses.


----------



## star.keys (Dec 17, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> Close mics first followed by Close+Tree+Outriggers




thanks for sharing these!


----------



## yiph2 (Dec 17, 2020)

Curious what the collaboration with Berklee means. They get a tailor made library, but do all the students have to use it?


----------



## Sips Tea (Dec 17, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> Might be that flu that's going round?


Based on the examples you've provided, it sounds like the distance between the players has affected their timing and their ability to create a more focused sound. Have you noticed that compared to other symphonic string libraries?


----------



## Alex Niedt (Dec 17, 2020)

FWIW, regarding the distance/timing thing, one of my friends asked Alan Meyerson about how the spacing situation in sessions is generally working out, and he replied, "It works fine. Less of a difference than you would expect."


----------



## Sips Tea (Dec 17, 2020)

Alex Niedt said:


> FWIW, regarding the distance/timing thing, one of my friends asked Alan Meyerson about how the spacing situation in sessions is generally working out, and he replied, "It works fine. Less of a difference than you would expect."


Thanks Alex! That's helpful information. I know it can be harder for string players when they're not able to see or follow the section leader. I thought this might affect the overall sound given the new approach of recording performances and not individual intervals. But I guess it's an easier issue to overcome in a recording session as opposed to during a live concert hall performance.


----------



## gjelul (Dec 17, 2020)

- Free update for the Berlin Brass
- Sine update
- 299 Full String Section Library
- Free libraries starting from Jan 2021 (Sine Factory)

All this in a year where the whole world is shut down...

Imo, we should appreciate the developers a bit more and cut them a break for releasing some great products during this crazy year. I really believe (especially this year) they've played their part in helping out the musicians, be that in Berlin, London, or wherever. And just for this, it is worth paying 299 for a new library.

My 2 cents.. 

Happy holidays to everyone!


----------



## CSNV (Dec 17, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> Close mics first followed by Close+Tree+Outriggers




I hear exactly the same flaw that I heard on a lot of Orchestral Tools libraries, and unconsciously it participates a lot to the non realism of the sound : the panning is not consistent on each notes.

One clear example is at 1:09, there is a E - G - Bb note sequence. The G is more on the right channel than the E, and it's the opposite for the Bb who is more on the left channel than the E.

Orchestral Tools make beautiful sounding libraries ; but the editing is very disappointing, especially for the price asked. Inconsistencies in panning, timing, tone, dynamic levels... I'm totally not OK with that.

For example, I recently updated Ark 1 to SINE version ; and I was so disappointed to see that it still has BIG timing issues (some RR are up to a 100ms lag) on short notes (especially on brass), 5 years after the first release... totally unacceptable.

I don't understand why a library developer would focus on some fancy stuff like a new compression algorithm, when this basic stuff is not correctly done. I clearly prefer a library who takes 20 GB more on my SSD, than a smaller one I have to fight with to write a realistic line because some notes have a bad panning / timing / tone / dynamic.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 18, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> Close mics first followed by Close+Tree+Outriggers



The cello is probably the most strongest points of this library. Thx for this.

OT should record additional legato patches for all sections using this new legato sampling method for their regular Berlin Strings. (paid expansion or something)


----------



## Pixelpoet1985 (Dec 18, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> Close mics first followed by Close+Tree+Outriggers



Are the small portamento moments separate and triggered on high velocities as in BS? Or are these exaggerated transitions part of the new legato?


----------



## tabulius (Dec 18, 2020)

FF layer to Berlin Brass! Thanks, OT. Looking forward to getting this thing in Sine. I really hope that the volume differences and other quirks have been polished too.

As for the new strings library, it sounds ok and big. There is something about violins legato that says "hey, I'm sample", but it is too early to say. The demos didn't give a wow effect, but I'm sure walkthroughs will tell us more. Currently, if I'm looking for a bigger string section sound I have Hollywood strings Gold or Ark series so I don't NEED this, but of course, new samples are always fun and add fresh sounds to the template. I wish "round robin legato" would be in every modern sample library so it is great that OT included that in.


----------



## Hendrixon (Dec 18, 2020)

tabulius said:


> FF layer to Berlin Brass! Thanks, OT.



This ^^^

When I heard this I wept like a baby lol


----------



## Sovereign (Dec 18, 2020)

I caved, just bought it.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 18, 2020)

Sovereign said:


> I caved, just bought it.


lasted longer than I did.


Quick notes: the default mic configuration has too much close mic - similiar to ark 2 if you just load it up without touching the mic. Also worth noting I've find I like spot 2 a little more, although spot 1 has better body. Spot 2 + some leader is nice an sweet for the close mics.


----------



## FrozenIcicle (Dec 18, 2020)

FrozenIcicle said:


> They just discounted their Berlin series, I reckon it’s like 2.0, resampled Berlin series


Guess I predicted correctly on the 6th, was this one of your guessing competitions @OrchestralTools ?


----------



## el-bo (Dec 18, 2020)

Really looking forward to the free stuff. Would be great if they've looked at 'Labs' and thought of a selection that would be complimentary, rather than just treading the same ground.

Either way, very generous


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 18, 2020)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Are the small portamento moments separate and triggered on high velocities as in BS? Or are these exaggerated transitions part of the new legato?


Velocity makes no difference to the legato speed - the portamento seems to be baked in. There is a legato tab which allows you to set speed zones for fast playing which switches between legato types.






Hopefully there's a manual/video tutorial coming which explains how the different legato types should work.


----------



## PaulieDC (Dec 18, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> But Berlin Strings is not yet a Sine library so it's not in the account...


This question has probably been answered, but you enter your Berlin Strings serial number as the promo code, to get the price to 299 Euros. The exchange rate has dived since the summer so that about $365 USD. Ugh.


----------



## river angler (Dec 19, 2020)

CSNV said:


> I don't understand why a library developer would focus on some fancy stuff like a new compression algorithm, when this basic stuff is not correctly done. I clearly prefer a library who takes 20 GB more on my SSD, than a smaller one I have to fight with to write a realistic line because some notes have a bad panning / timing / tone / dynamic.



As much as I love the Inspire Series I have to agree with this. The timing of some of the RRs is frustrating! Also I find I have to adjust the general track delay between instruments to get them to sit right together timing wise all the time. I love the sound of OT's samples but am not impressed by the hours spent fiddling with the Logic Inspector track delay plus the amount of shifting of individual notes in the piano roll to get the instruments to playback satisfactorily.

Not encouraging to hear that there is no improvement in SINE with these issues. However these timing problems are actually inherent in the cutting of the samples themselves not the GUI that plays them.

Also I've always found the legato patches hit and miss and again find the timing erratic.


----------



## Beans (Dec 19, 2020)

CSNV said:


> I don't understand why a library developer would focus on some fancy stuff like a new compression algorithm, when this basic stuff is not correctly done. I clearly prefer a library who takes 20 GB more on my SSD, than a smaller one I have to fight with to write a realistic line because some notes have a bad panning / timing / tone / dynamic.



Not all engineers and scripters are of equivalent skills.

I've got engineers who can be put on payments-related projects and have vast knowledge of things like PCI compliance, credit card retries, and so on. Whereas others are my staff focused on marketing-themed products and can own services responsible for a good bit of GDPR compliance, double opt-in practices, IP warming, and the like. Others still are focused on more traditional HTML, CSS, and Web accessibility.

OT likely has some staff working on improvements to SINE (including compression), and others that are working on the actual libraries. Very different skill sets.


----------



## meradium (Dec 20, 2020)

Hopefully we will not only see


whitewasteland said:


> Almost cried when I heard Berlin Brass is having an additional layer :')



Well, ... I would also love to see a simple F layer on the marcato patches for anythings that reads Trombones... Right now it moves from mf straight to ff... and that is not what you always want. And cross fading is not a solution either because of the way brass sounds at different volumes. Have always struggled with these...


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Dec 20, 2020)

meradium said:


> Hopefully we will not only see
> 
> 
> Well, ... I would also love to see a simple F layer on the marcato patches for anythings that reads Trombones... Right now it moves from mf straight to ff... and that is not what you always want. And cross fading is not a solution either because of the way brass sounds at different volumes. Have always struggled with these...


Also true, sometimes you really have to be cautious reaching the maximum dynamic without hearing that ff buzz fading in ! I even disable the ff layer in some cases.


----------



## Nils Neumann (Dec 20, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Well, I assume most of those composers are usually not paid for their work. You get what you pay for, as they say. For sure, quite often composers get not paid nearly as much as they should compared to other professions ... But why a highly profitable company working in the very business of music like OT doesn't get that is beyond me ...


I got compensated very fairly every time I wrote something for OT.

I don't know why you would just write something with no knowledge about how it really works.


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 20, 2020)

Nils Neumann said:


> I got compensated very fairly every time I wrote something for OT.
> 
> I don't know why you would just write something with no knowledge about how it really works.


Well, then good for you, again! You have, others haven’t - bad for those, I guess. Also, I am not sure what “compensated really fairly” means to you. Paying with free libraries is not the same as paying with actual money, but it may for sure feel like a good reward for some people ...

And I was making clear that this is not against OT, but rather a common observation across most developers. I mentioned it only in this thread as ONE possible explanation why OT demos used to be a lot better than today. IMO I should say - but I am not the only one who thinks so.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 20, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Well, then good for you, again! You have, others haven’t - bad for those, I guess. Also, I am not sure what “compensated really fairly” means to you. Paying with free libraries is not the same as paying with actual money, but it may for sure feel like a good reward for some people ...
> 
> And I was making clear that this is not against OT, but rather a common observation across most developers. I mentioned it only in this thread as ONE possible explanation why OT demos used to be a lot better than today. IMO I should say - but I am not the only one who thinks so.


The more obvious answer is a tighter production schedule


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 20, 2020)

Nils Neumann said:


> I don't know why you would just write something with no knowledge about how it really works.



I think you could post that after 90% of internet comment section replies.

Probably 99%, but I'm feeling optimistic this morning


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 20, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> I think you could post that after 90% of internet comment section replies.
> 
> Probably 99%, but I'm feeling optimistic this morning


Oh, and I was just ignoring that part. I know what I know.


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 20, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Oh, and I was just ignoring that part. I know what I know.



I wasn't aiming at you specifically, just the general interwebs.
Depending on how much port I've consumed, I vary on the percentage scale


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 20, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> I wasn't aiming at you specifically, just the general interwebs.
> Depending on how much port I've consumed, I vary on the percentage scale


I wasn’t referring to your text, either! Rather the one you quoted.


----------



## cnogradi (Jan 2, 2021)

Anyone seeing the previous 25% edu discount jumping to 40% now? Was it automatic or did you have to submit a new edu request?


----------



## Maximvs (Jan 2, 2021)

cnogradi said:


> Anyone seeing the previous 25% edu discount jumping to 40% now? Was it automatic or did you have to submit a new edu request?


As far as I understand from a very recent reply I received from a support ticket I sent OT during the holidays, the 40% EDU discount will take place at some point during this month of January but it is not yet in place.

Best,

Max


----------



## cnogradi (Jan 2, 2021)

Massimo said:


> As far as I understand from a very recent reply I received from a support ticket I sent OT during the holidays, the 40% EDU discount will take place at some point during this month of January but it is not yet in place.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Max


Great! Thanks


----------

