# Did a control surface really speed up your workflow?



## SomeGuy (May 14, 2016)

I was looking at adding a control surface for controlling Cubase and plugins more quickly. However, I use Vienna Ensemble pro and try to load as many instruments and insert effects inside VE pro on both my PC slave and main Mac system. 

Will systems like the Nektar Panorama (who have pre-mapped instruments/plugins) still work if the instrument or insert effect is being hosted in VE pro? How about the CC121 or even the Euphonix or Eucon offerings? Also any owners feel control surfaces actually deliver on being able to work less with the mouse and do quicker / better mixing & automation using their control surface? 

I guess I'm not too concerned about instrument control as I use Lemur for ipad to control my main instruments & sample libs, which works great! I'm mainly looking for controlling 3rd party effects like EQ, Delays, Filters, Reverbs, etc without having to map them all manually (if thats even possible) or use any wrappers like automap. Again most of the plugins I use are inserts in VE pro, which I fear will make them inaccessible to any control surface.

I would love to hear feedback from users to how well their control surfaces integrate with their DAWs and in the end, was it worth the investment? Do you find having motorized faders and/or physical knobs to be a great improvement over simply using Lemur on an ipad? I would imagine it does make things faster, but would hate to drop a bunch of $$$ to find out it has major shortcomings.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 14, 2016)

In a word, no. I had a HUI for years, and never used it when I was actually working on something. And it was brilliant, so it's not the fault of the design. It's just that for MIDI-plus-overdubs, I'd always done most of the mixing by the time it was appropriate to use it.

Plus, being a project studio engineer rather than a real one, I never became married to hardware faders.

I do like Logic Control for the iPhone and iPad, but I wouldn't use it for mixing.


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## givemenoughrope (May 14, 2016)

On a whim I tried mixing audio (after printing, compiling edits) back through VE Pro (also taking advantage of offloading plugins on the slaves) and assigning the faders on my controller to the various channels. I had forgotten how musical it is to slightly alter the balance of tracks either the full stems or within them. Just inching the drums or a shaker up or down for a few beats can really liven up a mix. The key being able to move a few channels at once (cang do that w a mouse). Besides, I've heard many engineers say that 90% of a mix is just minute volume changes to get the right balance.

I'm going to figure a way to just balance the stems in Cubase soon. Tired of mousing around for every last thing.


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## DocMidi657 (May 14, 2016)

I would also say no as well. I had one of those built like a tank Logic Control units and found for all the years I had it all I was really using was the transport, the Jog Wheel, one fader and the little Save Button which was always buggy as the little red light was supposed to go out when you hit the button to confirm that your new changes were saved... so then I had to hit COMMAND+S on the computer keyboard anyway to make sure  All of this can easily be set set on an extended computer keyboard on my Mac. I can fly around just as fast with the computer keyboard and trackPAD then a controller. 

The only thing that I do find handy is to have a single fader to write CC data or automation. Also a single fader is nice to have when you enable a track and you want to quickly adjust the volume of your VI and don't want to have to click and mouse around on screen to get to the fader for it. An iPad or one of those single transports (PreSonus FaderPort) can do that for you and take up whole lot less space. 

Another aspect to think about aside from the cost...Do you really want this thing taking up desk space between your MIDI controller and your computer keyboard mouse/trackball and monitors? What if you want to put a score down on your desk and write something?

Every controller I see coming out always states "it's not designed to eliminate the need for a computer keyboard". When I see that I say to myself "then why bother"? 

What I'd like to see is a computer keyboard with a Jog wheel and a few faders all integrated into a single unit, something small and tidy but heavy enough that it did not slide around. Now that I'd buy.


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## jononotbono (May 14, 2016)

In the future, I'll probably end up buying two Slate Ravens, side by side AND still end up using the Mouse and Keyboard! Typical.


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## pinki (May 14, 2016)

I would also say no...I had a Mackie Control and it took up too much space and I never used it. I do love my Jazz Mutant Lemur though, which I use every day because I can tailor it to my needs and it's ethernet. I like the idea of a single physical fader though.
I was trying the ViPro remote today on iPad which seems great but necessitates a WiFi network...


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## NYC Composer (May 14, 2016)

givemenoughrope said:


> The key being able to move a few channels at once (cang do that w a mouse).



Why not? At least in Cubase, you can control click any faders you want and gang them together. You could also create a group.


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## elpedro (May 14, 2016)

i use controllers for ableton and it works out really well for me, although i still use some of my old moves such as keyboard shortcuts etc, without thinking.I find it helpful to reduce the million mouse clicks..especially when recording automation


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## ryanstrong (May 14, 2016)

I know this is not the same thing but setting up TouchOSC on my iPad and routing several CC's via Generic Remote along with an XY pad for Expression and Modulation not only sped up workflow but helped me "play" the virtual instruments with more finesse with the XY pad.


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## AlexRuger (May 14, 2016)

Depends. MIDI CC's are absolutely played in faster than they're drawn (obviously), but I still end up going back re-drawing them half the time anyway...

I've never gotten the point of controllers with play buttons and record buttons and whatnot. I already have those on my keyboard.

C_brians for Lemur, though...that could speed things up significantly. I think controllers work best as either, a) real-time performance controllers, or b) doing things that keyboard shortcuts can't, like macros and the logical editor in Cubase. Beyond that...meh.


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## vicontrolu (May 14, 2016)

In my case yes, but i would have answered no for a really long time. What i do is:

-Fader volume (better ride it physically) Alphatrack
-EQ (avoids openning the mixer,editor, EQ section etc) TouchOSC
-Macros/logiacal editor presets (would be impossible to remember all i use on keyboad shortcuts) TouchOSC
- Spitfire UACC (articulation change)- TouchOSC


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## givemenoughrope (May 15, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> Why not? At least in Cubase, you can control click any faders you want and gang them together. You could also create a group.


I meant move them each up or down individually but at once..


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## KEnK (May 15, 2016)

In my case the tiny and very cheap Nanokontrol was a big changer.
Very small- and I totally love that I can put up to 4 fingers on consecutive faders for realtime cc input.
This is especially great on Samplemodelling and sometimes LASS- a few others too.
Love the thing.

k


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## Guy Rowland (May 15, 2016)

IMO the HUI and Mackie protocols are so poor that they negate the positives of most controllers. You need a surface that follows you as you work, not the other way round, and has clear dynamic labelling on the controls. The huge plus of physical controls vs touch screen is that you can control things without having to look at the controls themselves. And for mixing, being able to control multiple faders at once pretty essential for me.

In short, for mixing and basic automation / CC chores, the Avid Artist / Cubase combo via EuCon IS a major advantage. I haven't found any iPad software that helps me - mouse is quicker. For synth programming, I've not found anything that works yet, though some now discontinued ideas like the MS20 and Oscar controllers looked interesting.


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## Baron Greuner (May 15, 2016)

I had to think if having an MCU Pro did in fact actually speed up the workflow. I think it does a bit.


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## Ozymandias (May 15, 2016)

For me, it was OSC rather than any one control surface that has allowed me to do the things I wanted to. There isn't usually much talk about it on VIC, but it's the bee's knees.


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## ryanstrong (May 15, 2016)

AlexRuger said:


> Depends. MIDI CC's are absolutely played in faster than they're drawn (obviously), but I still end up going back re-drawing them half the time anyway...


Of course there will always be CC refinement with modulation, expression, velocity etc. But when I say CC's I mean routed CC's with TouchOSC via Generic Remote to do Logical Editor presets.


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## mc_deli (May 15, 2016)

Motorized faders for channel strips in mixing - no, my old ProjectMix faders were always idle
Transport controls - yes, constantly used on my old ProjectMix and now on the MPD232
Assignable faders and knobs for plug ins and CCs - my god yes, massive speed increases

When using Kontakt libs with synth elements (EDNA, Output stuff etc.) assigning multiple parameters to faders. It is great for creativity and speed.


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## SomeGuy (May 16, 2016)

Thank you all for your posts! It seems for most having expensive, large control surfaces is not worth the investment? Interesting as it kind of confirms my fear. 

BTW, I probably should have clarified a bit. I do own a Novation keyboard and use the knobs and faders all the time for midi CC & cubase quick controls assigned to plugins that I want to automate quickly. I then use an ipad with Lemur + composer tools for most of my key switches and for x-y control of instruments & synths as its GREAT to see the full name of the articulation / parameter! I also use cubase's ipad app for key commands & macros that I use occasionally but forget their actual assigned keys - again very helpful that you can name the buttons on the ipad. 

I was mainly considering adding either a control surface with motorized faders or something like the Nektar P1 where plugins are already mapped, thinking this could help me mix faster. However I then thought about my reliance on VE pro and I dont think any plugin mappings work inside VE pro?


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## SomeGuy (May 16, 2016)

Guy Rowland said:


> IMO the HUI and Mackie protocols are so poor that they negate the positives of most controllers. You need a surface that follows you as you work, not the other way round, and has clear dynamic labelling on the controls. The huge plus of physical controls vs touch screen is that you can control things without having to look at the controls themselves. And for mixing, being able to control multiple faders at once pretty essential for me.



100% agree! Which is why I've been on the fence as it seems that unless steinberg makes it themselves, there wont be a product like this for Cubase. 



Guy Rowland said:


> In short, for mixing and basic automation / CC chores, the Avid Artist / Cubase combo via EuCon IS a major advantage.



Does the Avid Artist / Cubase combo with EuCon use HUI and Mackie protocols? Will it actually follow you if you select a track or open a plugin? Do you mind going into more detail about the major advantages of this setup? I really wish there were more videos on youtube showing these tools integration with DAWs other than protools, and using 3rd party plugins. Though Cubase's stock EQ & channel strip plugins are nice, I tend to use 3rd party EQs, compressors, etc more often, and though I can assign quick controls it would be helpful if I could assign more than 8 controls, and that these could be saved on a per plugin level.


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## SomeGuy (May 16, 2016)

vicontrolu said:


> In my case yes, but i would have answered no for a really long time. What i do is:
> 
> -Fader volume (better ride it physically) Alphatrack
> -EQ (avoids openning the mixer,editor, EQ section etc) TouchOSC
> ...



How do you assign EQ parameters without opening the mixer / editor / EQ section? Sounds very interesting!! But I'm assuming this only works on Cubases built in EQ? I'll grab different EQ's for different jobs, i.e. I have a few I go to first for boosting high end vs sculpting mids, or even active vs passive if I'm looking for color or transparency, etc.


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## owenave (May 17, 2016)

The only time I could see using a larger control surface is if you are running a commercial
studio for music recording. Not really for yourself, but some clients are still stuck on 
seeing a big old SSL in the room. And I know some studios that bought the Pro Tools Avid Big control surfaces to make the clients happy. 
As for myself all I need is something simple to control articulations and cc for some of the 
virtual instruments. I loved seeing the one touch controller on an ipad for the Chris H solo violins. 
That looked like something that would be nice. (although the CH Solo Violins sounded harsh to me and would not sit in the mix well for my personal taste)


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## Krzys (May 17, 2016)

Hi

No and Yes! 
Had the Mackie/Logic Control: never used the unit fully (Transport & Jog Wheel mostly) 
Had the Euphonix Transport......was great when it functioned (software was a bit of a dog's breakfast)
Tried to use the iPad....slobbering my finger over glass just didn't work for me, some love it.
Now i use a Presonus Faderport (with the updated controller assignments from here: http://tinyurl.com/zutfq94 works the charm.)


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 17, 2016)

Docmidi, interesting what you say about the keyboard being necessary. To me it always seemed silly to pretend the regular input devices weren't there!


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2016)

Is anyone here actually using the Slate Raven MTI2? I do love the idea of it but what I want to know is whether I can create a Lemur type template of Buttons that control Midi CCs. So it could be used for both Audio and Midi Automation (and obviously controlling plugs etc). If you can control Midi CC then I will buy one when I have the money. Currently I am using some Steinberg CMCs, a Korg Nano Kontrol 2, iPad with Lemur, and a JLC Cooper Fadermaster Pro (and obviously a Keyboard and Mouse) to get more hands on control over various things - some of it works, some of is no quicker than a Qwerty Keyboard (How many more transport buttons does one really need? Space bar is pretty good!! haha) but I have constantly wondered about the Slate Raven. The appeal of an iPad Pro is the screen size and use of Lemur to create a controller template. Surely the Raven could do the same?

Here's a shot of the controllers I am currently trying out.


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## babylonwaves (May 18, 2016)

Krzys said:


> Had the Mackie/Logic Control: never used the unit fully (Transport & Jog Wheel mostly)
> Had the Euphonix Transport......was great when it functioned (software was a bit of a dog's breakfast)
> Tried to use the iPad....slobbering my finger over glass just didn't work for me, some love it.
> Now i use a Presonus Faderport (with the updated controller assignments from here: http://tinyurl.com/zutfq94 works the charm.)


funny, i've bought the same products in the same order, got rig of them as well and now i'm sitting in front of a fader port which i really like. nevertheless, i need a fader bank sooner or later ...


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## JohnG (May 18, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> Here's a shot of the controllers I am currently trying out.



That's a lot of controllers. Any of them helping?


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## FriFlo (May 18, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> Is anyone here actually using the Slate Raven MTI2? I do love the idea of it but what I want to know is whether I can create a Lemur type template of Buttons that control Midi CCs. So it could be used for both Audio and Midi Automation (and obviously controlling plugs etc). If you can control Midi CC then I will buy one when I have the money. Currently I am using some Steinberg CMCs, a Korg Nano Kontrol 2, iPad with Lemur, and a JLC Cooper Fadermaster Pro (and obviously a Keyboard and Mouse) to get more hands on control over various things - some of it works, some of is no quicker than a Qwerty Keyboard (How many more transport buttons does one really need? Space bar is pretty good!! haha) but I have constantly wondered about the Slate Raven. The appeal of an iPad Pro is the screen size and use of Lemur to create a controller template. Surely the Raven could do the same?
> 
> Here's a shot of the controllers I am currently trying out.


Funny coincidence! I just got a six pack of steinberg CMC controllers. I will probably not use all of the, but I like the channel and some of the transport controllers and they are using a lot less space than other comparable controllers. I was successful hacking the fader module to use those as midi cc control, however, every time I start cubase, I have to disconnect them in the devices menu, because a Cubase automatically reconnects them as channel mixer ... Sometimes features intended to be user friendly are really annoying ... And since Steinberg so quickly abandoned this series of controllers, there is not a lot of hope this will be fixed.


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2016)

JohnG said:


> That's a lot of controllers. Any of them helping?



The Fadermaster Pro is amazing. 100% Accurate to what values Cubase shows. I Love it and currently have Midi CCs assigned to each fader. For example, CC1 on Fader 1, CC7 on Fader 2 etc etc. 

Korg Nano Kontrol 2 cost £30 and feels like it. Can't complain but I only bought it to try it out. I have Sample Library Mic Positions assigned to the faders. Could definitely live without it as I have the Fadermaster Pro. 

The iPad and Lemur (using an Arts Unmuted Templated called qb 2.5) is amazing. I don't like it for Fader Riding (which is where the JLCooper gets used) but for shortcuts/Macros I love it. 

Steinberg CMCs. Well, The AI knob is cool and I use the Jog Function all the time. So that's a Keeper. Horizontal navigation is great with that. The CMC CH has a few buttons that bring up VST Edit windows, Cubase Plugin Windows, Sends etc. It is useful so I have kept it. The CMC Transport panel is useful but I know the qwerty keyboard inside and out so the single most important button on the Transport CMC is the "Copy Track" button (which obviously can be sorted with a Macro etc - most of this stuff can). The CMC PD (Drumpad one on far right) is setting to shortcuts - I would never use it for a Drum Pad mini MPC style thing - has shortcuts and macros set to it. Like, the first button is create Mono Audio track, next one is Create Stereo Audio, Midi, Import Audio. It's really handy. I only use the CMCs because I own them. They are better used than collecting dust. 

I am thinking about buying a Slate Raven MTi2 and getting rid of everything except the Fadermaster Pro but time will tell! Having a massive touch screen with most shortcuts is something I can see working (the iPad and Lemur is an amazing combo). The videos of it are impressive. but like all new tech, is it there yet? That's the question.


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2016)

FriFlo said:


> Funny coincidence! I just got a six pack of steinberg CMC controllers. I will probably not use all of the, but I like the channel and some of the transport controllers and they are using a lot less space than other comparable controllers. I was successful hacking the fader module to use those as midi cc control, however, every time I start cubase, I have to disconnect them in the devices menu, because a Cubase automatically reconnects them as channel mixer ... Sometimes features intended to be user friendly are really annoying ... And since Steinberg so quickly abandoned this series of controllers, there is not a lot of hope this will be fixed.



I don't own the CMC FD (Fader Units). To me they are useless. You can't see which fader you are controlling. I also never use the Ribbon Fader on the CMC CH and they are the exact same Ribbon Faders used in the FD. The Ribbon Faders don't show accurate Metering so you end up constantly looking at the Computer Display and then the FD and then back again! Of course, each to their own. Some may love it. But imagining 4 x FDs side by side and having 16 Ribbon Faders than don't even tell you what they are controlling is not for me! For the price, the CMCs are alright. The Jog wheel and PD are by far my favourites! You can definitely live without most of it. Most of it is having a button to assign Macros or shortcuts. Having various "Create Track" buttons on the PD speeds up work flow. No doubt about it. I also set up some Macros so when I press top Left PD button, It hides everything in a Cubase Template except for Strings. Then the next button would hide everything and only show the Brass. You get the idea and this is why, to me, Lemur wipes the floor for this kind of thing.


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## dtonthept (May 18, 2016)

The slate looks amazing, I've got one on order but they won't be in stock till mid June at least. Can totally see it working alongside an iPad running quadro for macros etc. 

My carpal is kicking in really bad so in the meantime I have just ordered a wacom cintiq 13hd, will be very interested to see how this one goes.... 

My avid MC mix, while functionally and form factor wise ideal, had been getting more and more unreliable to the point where I have lost confidence in the product, they seem to be horrifically unreliable, so a total roll of the Dice if you get one. Too bad!


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## AlexRuger (May 18, 2016)

Just joined the FaderMaster Pro club yesterday. It's easily the best controller I've used and is well worth the $350 I had to shell out for it.


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2016)

AlexRuger said:


> Just joined the FaderMaster Pro club yesterday. It's easily the best controller I've used and is well worth the $350 I had to shell out for it.



It's amazing isn't it!


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## Ashermusic (May 18, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> It's amazing isn't it!




I have been tempted by the Fadermaster Pro many times but I have heard conflicting things about the health of the company and therefore the prognosis for future compatibility? I take it you guys don't share that concern?


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## JohnG (May 18, 2016)

dtonthept said:


> My carpal is kicking in really bad



sorry to hear that


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## jononotbono (May 18, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> I have been tempted by the Fadermaster Pro many times but I have heard conflicting things about the health of the company and therefore the prognosis for future compatibility? I take it you guys don't share that concern?



Well, I found one secondhand on Ebay so have no warranty or anything like that. I got it for about £120 which I thought was a steal. I use a Motu Midi Express 128 for my midi interface and I can't see Motu dropping support for that for a long time so I don't really have any concerns over future compatibility. All user settings are stored in the Fadermaster Pro so all you do is connect it and use it. Built like a tank. I don't really think I qualify for giving you advice Jay. I'm a mere beginner.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 19, 2016)

Another way of explaining what I was trying to say before.

People who are used to mixing on consoles approach them like a musical instrument. If that's you, then you're going to look at control surfaces differently from a project studio MIDI + occasional live overdubs user like me.

I went through two analog mixers, then a Yamaha O1V digital mixer, and finally a Panasonic DA7 (bigger, better digital mixer). By the time I got rid of the DA7 it had been sitting off to the side for a few years, just handling routing and monitoring. I didn't even notice it when I connected everything to an audio interface. Input and output levels are set-and-forget if everything is inside a computer.

So a mixing control surface didn't do anything much for me. If I were recording bands it might be different, because it's nice being able to grab everything and set levels on a board.

Now, MIDI faders for sequencing are a totally different thing. I have eight of those built into my Kurzweil K2500X keyboard, and they're very handy.


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## AlexRuger (May 19, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> I have been tempted by the Fadermaster Pro many times but I have heard conflicting things about the health of the company and therefore the prognosis for future compatibility? I take it you guys don't share that concern?



Got mine used too. I was under the impression the company went under (maybe not?), so lack of support isn't a concern. And it's not like MIDI is going away any time soon, and seeing as I just daisy chain everything and plug it all into a single MIDI to USB thing (the MIO, I think), compatibility isn't a problem either.


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## tboston007 (May 19, 2016)

I have been using the cc121 for a few years now and it is consistently a part of my workflow although I find myself typically using it for the AI knob, (which is great for tweaking any parameter or third party plug in) the jog wheel and the transport, occasionally the fader, mutes, solos etc. never the eq as I don't use cubase eq. 

Slate Raven MTi2 has been a game changer for me. I love it for editing and mixing. It does not completely negate the need for mouse and keyboard as there are some things that a mouse click is more precise to accomplish such as grabbing a fade handle and adjusting. With that said, I love to get my hands on the screen when editing and do find that mixing on it is very intuitive and better than most other solutions. Tweaking plugins is much better for me, I hate being one step removed with having to click a mouse to turn a dial, I understand some people prefer an actual dial but honestly a touch surface accomplishes the goal for me of, I touch it and it turns. Also virtual faders work for me as well. It has become a huge timesaver for me overall and I see the longer I use the faster it will become. I have a friend is very fast working in pro tools and he was using the Raven with impressive speed to move around.

*Most important to me is that I am noticing much less stress on my wrists, neck and shoulders due to less need to constantly be on the keyboard and mouse. My health is better for it...or so far it seems that way. I have it mounted on a dual mounting arm for my two monitor setup and can even raise it up so I can stand and use it.

The Raven software also is a time saver with all the batch commands, most of which work well. 

I did have an Avid Artist Mix but found it just sat there most of the time. 
I sold it on eBay and took the money to buy the Raven MTi2 when they first came out, I have software for protools and cubase and it all is working quite well. 

I am happy to answer any questions.


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## dtonthept (May 20, 2016)

Have you ever tried using a stylus on the raven? Would be great to be able to get super precise directly on the screen, and I wonder about having an additional posture for the hands too...


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## jononotbono (May 20, 2016)

tboston007 said:


> I have been using the cc121 for a few years now and it is consistently a part of my workflow although I find myself typically using it for the AI knob, (which is great for tweaking any parameter or third party plug in) the jog wheel and the transport, occasionally the fader, mutes, solos etc. never the eq as I don't use cubase eq.
> 
> Slate Raven MTi2 has been a game changer for me. I love it for editing and mixing. It does not completely negate the need for mouse and keyboard as there are some things that a mouse click is more precise to accomplish such as grabbing a fade handle and adjusting. With that said, I love to get my hands on the screen when editing and do find that mixing on it is very intuitive and better than most other solutions. Tweaking plugins is much better for me, I hate being one step removed with having to click a mouse to turn a dial, I understand some people prefer an actual dial but honestly a touch surface accomplishes the goal for me of, I touch it and it turns. Also virtual faders work for me as well. It has become a huge timesaver for me overall and I see the longer I use the faster it will become. I have a friend is very fast working in pro tools and he was using the Raven with impressive speed to move around.
> 
> ...



Music to my ears. I am pretty much sold on the MTi2. How well does it work with Cubase Pro 8.5? I've watched all the videos I can find online. It looks slick. How is navigating around hundreds of tracks in the mixer with it? I am loving the iPad Air 2 with Lemur and was going to build a Lemur template to control Cubase but just wondering whether the Raven can do a similar thing? I really want to love this but I'm on the fence. Have been since they got released but now their price is "doable" compared to when they were launched.


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## reddognoyz (May 20, 2016)

I use an Alpha track, I used to use the Faderport as well. both are a single fader that is enabled for your selected track. No scrolling for fader rides. If Motu saw fit to enable cc info other than pan/volume to be followed in real time, I would get an 8 fader device in a heart beat and have it follow/send cc"s 7,11,01,02, and what ever else I use all the time with my vi's that would be a HUGE improvement for my work flow. As it is,DP will overdub rather than replace cc data, yes overdub. That is undesired behavior.


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## tboston007 (May 20, 2016)

dtonthept said:


> Have you ever tried using a stylus on the raven? Would be great to be able to get super precise directly on the screen, and I wonder about having an additional posture for the hands too...



Yes, I have used a stylus pen on the raven and it works quite well. The one I have has kind of a rounded tip and I am trying to find a more pointed tip for accuracy, I think then the stylus could do the smaller clicks that are necessary for certain buttons and moves.



jononotbono said:


> Music to my ears. I am pretty much sold on the MTi2. How well does it work with Cubase Pro 8.5? I've watched all the videos I can find online. It looks slick. How is navigating around hundreds of tracks in the mixer with it? I am loving the iPad Air 2 with Lemur and was going to build a Lemur template to control Cubase but just wondering whether the Raven can do a similar thing? I really want to love this but I'm on the fence. Have been since they got released but now their price is "doable" compared to when they were launched.



I have been using the raven successfully with Cubase 8.5. There was a small glitch I found that sometimes if I had the session already loaded then started the raven software it would reset the pan positions and sometimes volume. Of course this a devastating thing if you are working on a mix and all the pans reset. The workaround is to start cubase, then open the raven software then load the session. If I close and re=open sessions no problem.
So yeah that is a bit of a pain but I did find a solution till they fix it so workable.

The other glitch is that there are batch commands that don't work. For example the batch command to open and add plugins to a track as insert such as UAD 1176. You would just press the batch command and everything would load for you, and can even do multiple inserts. The problem I have found is that in cubase it doesn't work because of some issue with the option key command. The raven comes with custom key commands that you load in cubase that sets everything up, somehow there is a disagreement happening with cubase and raven software so those specific batch commands don't work. Again this is a pain in the ass as it is a feature that is a time saver. It works fine in protools.
With that said, it does not prevent me from getting my work done and I just use track presets in cubase any way which is basically just as fast.

They have recently updated the software and there is a cubase 8.5 beta included (previously there was no specific raven software for 8.5 only 8 which worked fine besides the mentioned glitches.) Hopefully these issues will be fixed in this update.

Despite these small glitches the overall workflow and feeling that I am saving time is worth it to me. I am sure it is not for everyone but I do believe that touch surfaces are the future of recording studios. Even if you have a console, why not have a touch monitor that you can reach out and touch when interacting with the DAW vs mouse clicks. That is the part of touchscreen that I am liking the most. Writing automation and editing is just great. Plus the entire computer becomes a touch screen which is great for file browsing, internet and general use.

It seems logical that while slate is definitely the pioneers and leading the revolution most of the DAW's will start to make their software touch compatible and you will be able to buy a standard touchscreen. What Slate has done is take a touchscreen tweaked for speed and compatibility with audio production and added their own software to the package that overlays the DAW and gives you a great system of working efficiently. Why would cubase or others not do this themselves and include it in their future software?

Navigating thru large sessions is pretty easy, you just bank channels 24 at a time or swipe to move thru mixer.
There are a lot of positives!


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## jononotbono (May 21, 2016)

Once it's supported with 8.5 I'm sure the bugs will disappear. Slate are on top of their game (I think they are anyway). I e-mailed Slate about using the Raven for CCs...

---------------------
Hey Jono,

Thank you for the kind words.

RAVEN does not recieve HUI info on Stereo IN/OUTS within the Cubase mixer. RAVEN cannot fire MIDI CC but with the help of an external app like Keyboard Maestro it can.

Here is a great way to deal with HUGE track counts in Cubase 

Hope this clears up some of your questions.

Kind Regards,

--------------------

I'm lusting after a Raven now. This addiction is growing strong.


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## tboston007 (May 21, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> Once it's supported with 8.5 I'm sure the bugs will disappear. Slate are on top of their game (I think they are anyway). I e-mailed Slate about using the Raven for CCs...
> 
> ---------------------
> Hey Jono,
> ...




Great Video tip! Slate support has been top notch!


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## samphony (May 22, 2016)

For my personal composing work I would like to see/feel touch surfaces with feedback like 3D Touch or force touch. Even an MTI with hardware fader(s) and knob(s) would be nice too. But yeah touch surfaces will be easier to get and implemented in the future. Can't wait to get an MTI2 soon.


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## Soundhound (May 25, 2016)

Anyone using this? Are there more ways to use a touchscreen with Logic/Studio One/Cubase/DP etc?

https://sites.google.com/site/dawkeyscom/


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## IFM (Jun 16, 2016)

Someone had asked me to respond to this a while back and I forgot. 
I had an Avid Artist Mix and Transport but sold them. With having some knobs and sliders on my KL88 for MIDI that's all I need. I also use Logic Remote or iC Pro and that's really all I need.
Never did it speed up my workflow and was more eye candy.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 4, 2016)

Soundhound said:


> Anyone using this? Are there more ways to use a touchscreen with Logic/Studio One/Cubase/DP etc?
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/dawkeyscom/




The question is if this could be so flexible as Junkie XL's touchscreen solution etc.


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## Richard Wilkinson (Dec 4, 2016)

Soundhound said:


> Anyone using this? Are there more ways to use a touchscreen with Logic/Studio One/Cubase/DP etc?
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/dawkeyscom/



I had that exact setup a couple of years ago. Great for novelty but I found mouse & keyboard are still a much better way of interacting - especially for finer control of smaller buttons, automation etc. 

Logic remote is fantastic though - especially the customisable key commands page, so now I have a far more usable touchscreen setup as well as the standard touchpad/keyboard combo.


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## samphony (Dec 4, 2016)

The short answer. Multi fader surfaces never improved my workflow when composing.

I had an Artist Mix for 4 years but it collected dust since Avid took over Euphonix. The Avid EUCON drivers where totally unreliable so I sold the Artist Mix in 2014 or so. I have an iPad for macros and Lemur. I am still faster with mouse and keyboard. Touchscreens on the other hand are a different thing. I started using an MTI 2 since August. The Slate overlay software is ugly and not that stable in Sierra on that particular 12core Vader helmet we are using in that studio. The batch command tool is really useful. I just wish slate would add the ability to create custom grid sizes as well as allowing to drag and drop to re arrange certain batch commands. I know there are always ways to improve workflows.

I personally use the MTI to grab certain plugin knobs or faders or to draw automation data.
I don't use the slate overlay software but the batch commander. 

So touchscreen plus a single fader unit is what improved my personal workflow.


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