# Audio interface, headphone, headphone AMP/DAC setup



## Lunar Industries (Sep 3, 2021)

Background: I'm hobbyist music producer who just started getting into music licensing. I like to listen all types of music and produce music in various genres (from house, trance to epic orchestral, etc.). I have JBL LSR305s and old M-audio Fast Track audio interface, which causes many problems, have no studio headphones, headphone AMP/DAC. Room is untreated and I have no interest in treating it, because I'm planning at some point to move out to different place. Since I've started producing music for music library, I think it's a perfect time for a studio upgrade, because untreated room causes a lot of difficulties. My goal is to have a headphone, AI, amp setup which provides good sound for mixing/mastering tracks in various music genres, that way, kinda, solving my untreated room problem.

1) Because I can't treat my room, I thought that I should try mixing/mastering on quality open-back studio headphones and checking mix on JBL's. I've narrowed down my list to: DT880 Pro 250 ohms, DT1990 Pro, HD6xx, AKG712 Pro (sadly I can't go to the store and try any of them). I've been reading forums, Reddit posts, watched various YT reviews (all that seems like a mixed bag of opinions) but from what I gathered I'm leaning to both Beyerdynamic's. Is DT1990 worth the cost difference compared to DT880 Pro? I'm worried about DT1990s 8k peek (many people say that it is very harsh and it might be hard to work for an extended periods of time) and also worried about DT880 bass/sub base (is quality good/clean enough for making mixing decisions in more bass heavy tracks, like house/trance?). I should mention that I will later probably buy Sonarworks and pair it with any headphones I buy now.

2) I need to change my audio interface. I haven't done huge research about it, but I'll probably buy Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen, because it keeps getting recommended by many people, It's relatively cheap and has just enough features for my needs. I'm not an expert about ADC, but should I worry about Scarletts 2i2 ADC negatively affecting perceived sound coming through studio headphones or should I invest in dedicated DAC or DAC/AMP combo? I understand that Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen lacks headphone power, so I was thinking that the cheapest way to power 250-300 ohm headphones will be getting cheap headphone amp, without DAC, and connecting amp to Scarlett 2i2 headphone jack via balanced TRS cable. Stores sell Behringer HA400, Omnitronic LH-031 and similar cheap stuff here. My concern is whether such cheaper setup would affect headphone sound in a way that it would be not advisable to mix/master with it?


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

Ok, so researched a bit more and it seems that I shouldn't worry about AI ADC, there is no reason to buy a dedicated DAC. So I'm thinking to scratch out the idea of buying cheap headphone amplifier and buy better quality AI, which can power high impedance headphones (for example, Focusrite Clarett 2Pre). I don't need AI with many inputs for recording (2 XLR/TRS inputs are enough for my needs), because I only record electric and acoustic guitars from time to time. Des anyone have suggestions of other AIs which can power high impedance headphones well?


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## Minko (Sep 4, 2021)

Hi Lunar,

If you spend good money on tools, you should be able to test drive them yes? Maybe find a supplier where you can test drive the stuff.

Everything audio is a personal choice. That said, if you know people you admire and have the same workflow as yours use certain tools to get certain results, go with that.

Before I went out and tested stuff I would never have told you a good headphone amp matters. The same headphones will sound better with a good amp. Almost all the audio interfaces I know won’t get you there headphone-wise. Remember to use normal outputs as inputs for the headphone amp, not the headphone output.

A good DAC matters too. In my opinion, you get better spatial definition and better low end. If you hear stuff, you will make better decisions. I’m hearing this a lot from clients too. The low end is important certainly for house.

If you don’t need inputs I would recommend the M900 by Gracedesign. I’ve been testing this for a couple of weeks now and it is staying in my setup. It is a very good DAC and headphone amp and also has monitor out, so you can control your speakers with it too. It is not that expensive. It has drivers to use it as an interface but also can be connected digitally to the digital outs of your current interface. Check out their website for the manual and see if it will fit in your workflow.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

@Minko When people say that the same headphones will sound better with a good amp/DAC I always wonder how drastic is the difference? If it's only like 1-5 percent I wouldn't mind to sacrifice a bit of quality for a time being and buy good dedicated amp/DAC in the future. Buying good headphones, AI and additionally amp/DAC at the same time sums up to quite big amount of money.


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## BassClef (Sep 4, 2021)

Just a hobbyist here… not sure I agree with posts necessitating outboard headphone amps. Many AIs have very robust headphone circuits. (plenty of power and very good DACs) I started with the Scarlet 2i2 and later upgraded to the Claret2PreUSB, finding a large improvement in the headphone out. The good folks at Focusrite have explained this. Although I now have an outboard headphone amp (Fiio K5Pro) it was purchased for the convenience of dual headphone use. It can push much more volume but at the same volume levels, sounds no better than my Claret AI. I use Beyerdynami DY880pro and Drop HD6xx headphones. Good luck with your search.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

I've just found out that Motu M2 gets a lot of praise among users, regarded as best at this price range. It performed great at tests, has great specifications, have an AMP which can power high impedance headphones, etc. It has pretty much everything I'm expecting from good AI. I'm pretty much decided to buy Motu M2 as my new AI.

Now just need to decide between DT880 Pro or DT1990s headphones.


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## bill5 (Sep 4, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> Room is untreated and I have no interest in treating it, because I'm planning at some point to move out to different place. Since I've started producing music for music library, I think it's a perfect time for a studio upgrade


Because the room is untreated and you're not going to treat it, I respectfully disagree, but to each their own. I hope you realize that no matter what equipment you get, you're probably going to have recordings that don't have very good sound quality (excluding MIDI of course). I'd wait until you move. But if you're really dying to get new stuff, yes the M2 should serve you well, as would just about any audio interface really...tech has gotten so good, it's all but impossible not to buy a good one. 

I haven't used either of those headphones, but am confident saying either should serve you well and frankly I'd get whichever is cheaper, as you're not likely to hear much difference, if any.


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## mybadmemory (Sep 4, 2021)

I personally can hear very little to no difference between my AKG K701 powered through an AI/amp, and my way cheaper AKG K240S plugged straight into my Mac. I actually prefer the latter because of better comfort and less cables/stuff on the table.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

@bill5 Thanks for reply! As I mentioned I don't record live instruments much these days, so recording won't be a big deal. For last 2-3 years I've been producing electronic dance music mainly, but always loved classical/film/epic orchestral music and recently started investing in orchestral VI's and such. Years before I used to play guitar in a band, so ability to play guitar is like my skill from the past, lol :D


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## bill5 (Sep 4, 2021)

ah cool then if it's all MIDI, no worries about the room treatment!


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## Colin66 (Sep 4, 2021)

BassClef said:


> Just a hobbyist here… not sure I agree with posts necessitating outboard headphone amps. Many AIs have very robust headphone circuits. (plenty of power and very good DACs) I started with the Scarlet 2i2 and later upgraded to the Claret2PreUSB, finding a large improvement in the headphone out. The good folks at Focusrite have explained this. Although I now have an outboard headphone amp (Fiio K5Pro) it was purchased for the convenience of dual headphone use. It can push much more volume but at the same volume levels, sounds no better than my Claret AI. I use Beyerdynami DY880pro and Drop HD6xx headphones. Good luck with your search.


Hopefully the OP doesn't mind me going slightly off topic, but as someone who is about to purchase headphones, how do the 880's and the HD6xx's compare? Would you recommend one over another or?


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

I will probably pull the trigger for DT880s. It's my first time purchasing studio cans and blowing more then 400 Euros for DT1990s might be too much as a first timer, having in mind that I might not like the harshness. I was concerned about the sub bass of DT880s, but after rethinking everything, it might not be a problem. I had difficulties mixing on monitors throughout all spectrum, for example, deciding which resonant frequencies to cut (changing listening position changes annoying resonant frequencies to my ears, so I cut one, but later I don't like another one, it's like never ending process). So flat mixing headphones should help with such problems. And for sub bass, I probably couldn't judge sub bass even with the best cans anyway, because you don't need just hear the sub, but to feel it with a body. Of course headphones is personal, but I've seen DT880s recommended not just by random people on reddit or whatever, but by people with proper experience in music production, so it's says something.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

Colin66 said:


> Hopefully the OP doesn't mind me going slightly off topic, but as someone who is about to purchase headphones, how do the 880's and the HD6xx's compare? Would you recommend one over another or?


Of course I don't mind!


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## sostenuto (Sep 4, 2021)

Have not had desired success obtaining /correlating Audio I/F Headfone specs with those from several chosen dedicated Headfone amp providers. No matter how respected, and recommended, I prefer to understand how to rate and choose. 
Have (2) Saffire Pro14 AI(s) and fine for (1) Win10 Pro /Reaper DAW. Separate DAW has DT880 Edition _ 600 ohm Fones, driven from PC DAC out, to Schiit Audio - Modi 3 DAC, to Asgard 3 Headphone Amp. Very pleased ! Was not successful sorting which quality AI(s) would do this job _600 ohm_ properly _ tho several likely would. fwiw


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## averystemmler (Sep 4, 2021)

If you haven't already, have a gander at Julian Krause's videos. I really love his technical breakdowns, and it's impossible to find manufacturer-printed specs for some of these things.



I think that video in particular might be relevant to your search. There still seems to be some significant variance in power, harmonic distortion, and crossfeed with the onboard headphones amps of otherwise comparable low-to-mid budget interfaces.


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## Colin66 (Sep 4, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> Of course I don't mind!


Thanks!


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## sostenuto (Sep 4, 2021)

averystemmler said:


> If you haven't already, have a gander at Julian Krause's videos. I really love his technical breakdowns, and it's impossible to find manufacturer-printed specs for some of these things.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that video in particular might be relevant to your search. There still seems to be some significant variance in power, harmonic distortion, and crossfeed with the onboard headphones amps of otherwise comparable low-to-mid budget interfaces.



Impressive review _ THX ! Will check his other videos, as key concern is for RME, UA Apollo, Apogee, Motu, et al.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

@averystemmler Yes, I watched Julian Krause's videos, really informative! His videos was one of the reason I chose Motu M2 over other AIs.


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## Colin66 (Sep 4, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> @averystemmler Yes, I watched Julian Krause's videos, really informative! His videos was one of the reason I chose Motu M2 over other AIs.


The reason I chose it too!


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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2021)

Audient is one company that cares about building good headphone amps into their interfaces. I have an Audient id14 and also a separate headphone amp (the Atom). The latter gives me maybe an extra ≈1% of air/detail/something used with my VSX, but the Audient is absolutely more than capable of driving k7xx or HD6XX cans adequately by itself. Mind you, other people think Audient fans are cultists so take with a pinch of salt.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

I'm a bit confused how headphone amp should be properly connected to AI. Could someone elaborate about what @Minko said "Remember to use normal outputs as inputs for the headphone amp, not the headphone output." Does this mean that if I decide to buy headphone amp and connect it to M2, which has only 2 line outs I'm not going to be able to have my JBL monitors and headphones connected at the same time, because line outs will be taken? Why headphone amp shouldn't be connected via headphone out? If that's the case, I should probably buy AI, like M4, with more line outs, to future proof, if I end up needing an external amp.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> I'm a bit confused how headphone amp should be properly connected to AI. Could someone elaborate about what @Minko said "Remember to use normal outputs as inputs for the headphone amp, not the headphone output." Does this mean that if I decide to buy headphone amp and connect it to M2, which has only 2 line outs I'm not going to be able to have my JBL monitors and headphones connected at the same time, because line outs will be taken? Why headphone amp shouldn't be connected via headphone out? If that's the case, I should probably buy AI, like M4, with more line outs, to future proof, if I end up needing an external amp.


Yes you assume right, because if you connect via the headphone amp then you're running the output of one headphone amp (the one built in to the interface) into another one, which will obviate the point of using a separate amp for (allegedly) better fidelity. So yes you can get an interface with more outs, or use a switcher box, if you want to keep both headphone amp and monitors connected.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

@SupremeFist Thanks, this is very helpful! It acually has an impact on my purchase decisions.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> @SupremeFist Thanks, this is very helpful! It acually has an impact on my purchase decisions.


No problem! PS the Audient id14 mkii has two sets of monitor outs.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> No problem! PS the Audient id14 mkii has two sets of monitor outs.


Yes, I've noticed that, and inspecting Audient iD14 mk2 more now


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## Martin S (Sep 4, 2021)

I found Julian Krause’s review of the Audient ID14 mk2 really helpful, and it’s the reason I’ll be upgrading from Audient EVO 4 to the ID14. Especially his comparison chart of the Headphone output quality won me over.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

Dang it! I have one problem. My computer doesn't have USB Type-C inputs, which means there will less power output. On the other hand, Motu M2s are sold out at stores here and stores don't sell M4s. Also Audient seems to have very good DI input, which would be handy for recording my electric guitar. So now I'm leaning towards Audient ID14 mk2. Because of USB Type-A I will probably gonna need some kind of headphone amp. But at the end, maybe thats for the better...


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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> Dang it! I have one problem. My computer doesn't have USB Type-C inputs, which means there will less power output. On the other hand, Motu M2s are sold out at stores here and stores don't sell M4s. Also Audient seems to have very good DI input, which would be handy for recording my electric guitar. So now I'm leaning towards Audient ID14 mk2. Because of USB Type-A I will probably gonna need some kind of headphone amp. But at the end, maybe thats for the better...


I think usb bus power is the same (5v) regardless of whether it's a type A or type C connector? You just use whatever cable has the right connectors at each end. (Yes, the Audient hi-z input for guitars is very nice.)


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## sostenuto (Sep 4, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> Dang it! I have one problem. My computer doesn't have USB Type-C inputs, which means there will less power output. On the other hand, Motu M2s are sold out at stores here and stores don't sell M4s. Also Audient seems to have very good DI input, which would be handy for recording my electric guitar. So now I'm leaning towards Audient ID14 mk2. Because of USB Type-A I will probably gonna need some kind of headphone amp. But at the end, maybe thats for the better...


?????????? 🤷🏻


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)




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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2021)

I'm not going to watch that video but sometimes people like USB-C connections just for convenience. But you can absolutely connect a USB-C interface to a USB-A port on a computer with no loss of power.


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## Martin S (Sep 4, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I'm not going to watch that video but sometimes people like USB-C connections just for convenience. But you can absolutely connect a USB-C interface to a USB-A port on a computer with no loss of power.


I do believe that Julian Krause in the video measured poorer headphone performance when using usb-a, and recommends using usb-c because it provides more power to drive the headphone amplifier. So a usb-c to usb-a converter will not help in that regard. Of course, the interface will still work with usb-a, but headphone amp. performance will not be as good.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

@Martin S Thats exactly what I wanted to say (english isn't my native language, so I might been misunderstood before).


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## BassClef (Sep 4, 2021)

Colin66 said:


> Hopefully the OP doesn't mind me going slightly off topic, but as someone who is about to purchase headphones, how do the 880's and the HD6xx's compare? Would you recommend one over another or?


Mind you... am 70 and have lost much of my top end hearing. I've spent quite a bit of time with both and like them both. However, I find the HD6xx more detailed without being top heavy. Many claim that these are veiled, but I do not hear them that way. The DT880Pros are darker, and have a slight hump in the upper-mid-base, so they sound slightly muddier to my ears. And they have a reputation for being on the bright side, but I do not hear that, likely due my loss of high frequency hearing.


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## Martin S (Sep 4, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> @Martin S Thats exactly what I wanted to say (english isn't my native language, so I might been misunderstood before).


No worries  The good thing is though, that if you decide to go with the iD14 mk2, the extra 2 outputs could be used to drive a headphone amplifier, as SupremeFist mentioned earlier.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

Anyway, if it happens that I will need a headphone amp for Audient iD14 mkii I will purchase it and headphone should benefit from it. I found an interesting quate about this: "Lastly, by using higher quality components and power supplies, *a dedicated headphone amp will provide better quality sound at ANY volume level.* Remember, we are concerned here with having the PEAK output be clean and undistorted, and having the overall signal reproduced as cleanly as possible; *it's not about the quantity of the signal, it's about the quality of the signal. A great headphone will sound good from just about any headphone jack, but it won't sound great without an equally worthy headphone amplifier."*


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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2021)

Martin S said:


> I do believe that Julian Krause in the video measured poorer headphone performance when using usb-a, and recommends using usb-c because it provides more power to drive the headphone amplifier. So a usb-c to usb-a converter will not help in that regard. Of course, the interface will still work with usb-a, but headphone amp. performance will not be as good.


Oh OK! Did he measure it when using USB-A but powered via the power adaptor? (I keep my mk1 connected to AC.)


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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> *a dedicated headphone amp will provide better quality sound at ANY volume level.*


Did a guy selling headphone amps write that?


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Oh OK! Did he measure it when using USB-A but powered via the power adaptor? (I keep my mk1 connected to AC.)


Dunno. But there seems to be even more possible variables, like was it tested on USB 2.0 or 3.0. From YT comment section "On Audients homepage they say that the interface will be able to work just as well using the USB A connection, as long as it is on the 3.0 standard (thus providing 900ma of current)."


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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> Dunno. But there seems to be even more possible variables, like was it tested on USB 2.0 or 3.0. From YT comment section "On Audients homepage they say that the interface will be able to work just as well using the USB A connection, as long as it is on the 3.0 standard (thus providing 900ma of current)."


Yeah that sounds more likely. Honestly I would say (from my experience) the difference with a separate amp is so small compared to a good interface that you should get the latter first and then see if you think you really need the former/maybe test one that you can return?


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Did a guy selling headphone amps write that?


Haha, good one :D I found citation on gearspace, but even there the citation was taken from the source which is no longer available :D


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## Martin S (Sep 4, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Oh OK! Did he measure it when using USB-A but powered via the power adaptor? (I keep my mk1 connected to AC.)


The mk2’s are only bus-powered (as opposed the the mk1’s, which had a power plug).


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

From my experience there is weird policy on returning items to local stores here. I bought impact gxp88 and it arrived bent like a bow:


https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/bent-jpg.35038/


I made a return and the store inspected it for a few days and after that offered a replacement, if I remember correctly. I should probably learn more about returning policies if I decided to do a test.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2021)

Martin S said:


> The mk2’s are only bus-powered (as opposed the the mk1’s, which had a power plug).


Ah OK good to know. So if OP's computer's USB-A ports are USB3 protocol (these names are so dumb), then he'll be OK, but if not maybe not...


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## Martin S (Sep 4, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Yeah that sounds more likely. Honestly I would say (from my experience) the difference with a separate amp is so small compared to a good interface that you should get the latter first and then see if you think you really need the former/maybe test one that you can return?


That’s a sound advice and I thought exactly the same thing. And I still believe that the overall quality of the id14 mk2 is quite good - even via usb-a - that an amp would likely be overkill


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## BassClef (Sep 4, 2021)

FYI... Both my Claret2PreUSB and my Fiio Headphone amp/DAC each have their own power supply and each is connected directly to my iMac PC vis USB. (actually via a USB HUB)


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Ah OK good to know. So if OP's computer's USB-A ports are USB3 protocol (these names are so dumb), then he'll be OK, but if not maybe not...


Yeah, my PC supports USB3, so it should be fine (if that random YT comment was right ).


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## Martin S (Sep 4, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> Yeah, my PC supports USB3, so it should be fine (if that random YT comment was right ).


I think you’ll be all right. And remember that both the ADC and DAC of the mk2’s have been improved, compared to the predecessor (which was already highly regarded by many users)

Here’s another (highly un-scientific) test of the ID14 mk1 vs Solid State Logic 2. It’s a little bit tongue-in-cheek, but I actually like these guys a lot


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

By the way, local stores have weird selection of headphone amps here (portable stuff, cheap stuff, signal splitters, items without any reviews on the internet, etc.). Assortment seems quite low:
https://www.tamsta.com/lt/ausines/ausiniu-stiprintuvai





Ausinių Stiprintuvai / DAC







soundium.lt




If you see anything worth mentioning in this stock, tell me (of course if you bother checking it :D) 

I wonder if companies like Schiit Audio ships to Lithuania and what is the cost. Amazon costs are usually quite high if I remember well. But even with an extra delivery cost it would probably be worth it.


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## Martin S (Sep 4, 2021)

Since you’re in the EU, you might find a larger selection here :

https://www.thomann.de/intl/lt/headphone_preamps.html


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

Side notes: I can't believe, that I've used this old trash M-Audio Fast Track for so long! They have stopped supporting it ages ago (last driver 2013-05-21!!!), which is not just bad for hardware, but is insecure too. It has no Win10 support, etc.

Does EQ'ing headphones is a common (good) practice among pros? I was wondering if it solves headphones problems like Beyers peeks in high frequency. I've found a suggestion that to get closer to Harman frequency response cans user should apply oratory1990's EQ settings for DT880. I wonder how simple EQ'ing differs from Sonarworks profile application.


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## bill5 (Sep 4, 2021)

USB C is a just shape. Improved power comes from USB 3, along with the improved speed. The thing is I think most USB 3s are USB C as well, adding to the confusion. Either way IMO it's overkill for all but the most demanding of needs.

As for the headphone amps in AIs, it seems to be a mixed bag...e.g. Audients did well in the power ratings, but poorly in impedence. Honestly I suspect most of the time these diffs won't even be noticeable. Also it should be noted that Audients don't have MIDI jacks, in case that's a thing (I think these are on the way out though).


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

@bill5 Well then, that's a relief! And MIDI jacks shouldn't be a problem for my needs.


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## bill5 (Sep 4, 2021)

Martin S said:


> I found Julian Krause’s review of the Audient ID14 mk2 really helpful, and it’s the reason I’ll be upgrading from Audient EVO 4 to the ID14. Especially his comparison chart of the Headphone output quality won me over.


I'm generally a fan of his stuff too...I esp like his no-nonsense style, unlike some guys who try to be "entertaining" which gets old really quickly. I do think sometimes he gets wrapped up in the numbers too much though. Specs are only useful to a point.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 4, 2021)

I have ordered DT880 Pro and Audient ID14 mk2, I will have my hands on them after a day or two. I'm so eager to try them out! Thanks everyone for the help!  Finally, after days of non-stop searching, I can go back to actually producing music


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## Colin66 (Sep 5, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> I have ordered DT880 Pro and Audient ID14 mk2, I will have my hands on them after a day or two. I'm so eager to try them out! Thanks everyone for the help!  Finally, after days of non-stop searching, I can go back to actually producing music


Excellent. Good luck with them. I'll be interested to hear what you think because I might well be ordering the same in a couple of weeks


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## Minko (Sep 5, 2021)

Haha, I go outside for just one day . . . . and all these posts.
Yes I mean connect your headphone amp to normal outputs of your interface.

With the M900 you would do this digitally and it is a good volume knob for your mains also.

Also, the Julian Krause videos are great.


I see you went the Audient route, heard great things about these. Have not tested them myself. Have fun. In the end, it is about the emotion we convey with our art. Not how we listen to it


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 5, 2021)

@Minko Audient isn't RME Babyface or something, but I think it should be perfect for my current needs. Probably even the cheapest AI would be better compared to what I'm currently have. My M-Audio AI wasn't good even at the time when I purchased (during studies) and got even worse through the years. It should have been in the trash can long time ago :D


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## Minko (Sep 5, 2021)

Well I've seen people working on laptop with earbuds making #1 hits. 

But they did have some people in a good studio help them out finishing them.


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 8, 2021)

My first impressions (take it with a pinch of salt, because I don't have much experience with AI's and studio headphones)

Audient iD14

Pros. Build quality: AI is very sturdy, has weight to it; as for electronics only time will show how it holds up. I've done quick recordings and was really happy with the quality. Bad comparison, but with Fast Track I couldn't record live recordings (for example ukulele), because you had to set input gain pretty much to max to get reasonable recorded audio levels, which raised noise floor and in general had bad quality. This is not the case with Audient, recording live is hassle free, no need to set gain to 11, recorded audio is clear and in good quality. I have only instrument mic, so I haven't tested phantom power. Recording electric guitar trough DI was also great, no issues here; any issues I had here was from my old electric guitar electronics and not so great stock humbuckers. First I thought I will dislike one knob approach for setting monitors/headphones levels, but this design choice is well implemented. Audient iD14 powers my DT880 250 Ω really great (in terms of quantity; as for quality I'm not experienced to comment how good is analog to digital conversion) - you can go ridiculously loud, I would never listen at such high volume levels, I set volume about about halfway most of the times. I hadn't any problems with Audient software, mixer section works fine; I haven't looked deeper in this software capabilities. Having in mind what bad experience was with M-Audio (they stopped supporting AI drivers after year or two after I bought AI), I hope that Audient company will keep users with updated software and drivers years to come.

Cons. To be honest, I can't find any cons, maybe it's only minor inconveniences. Mic inputs could be on the front side, rather then back side, but if you have a studio were you can keep AI easily accessible or can leave mics connected, then this shouldn't cause any trouble. Some people prefer not to have AI with software, but personally I don't mind it. Audient comes with very short USB-C to USB-C cable, but if I understand correctly USB-C cables can't be longer then 1 or 2 meters, because it may not power AI well. My PC has only USB-A, so I had to buy cable separately. It sadly doesn't have power on/off switch, like Motu 2, that would be simple neat little feature. This also means, that if you switch computer off, AI lights stays lit illuminating room, which isn't ideal for bedroom producer.

DT880

Pros.

Build quality: like all Beyers - very sturdy. I've read on gearspace forum that for some people DT880 drivers after some time becomes faulty, I hope it won't be a case soon.

Comfort. DT880 sits on the head very tightly (it's not flabby), but I don't feel uncomfortable pressure to my head/ears, which is great. Cushions have a nice feel to it too. I've used it for hours straight without discomfort.

Sound: my first impressions was just like when I purchased my first studio monitors to replace ordinary speakers - that it sounds flat, like it supposed to be. Technically it has V shape frequency response, but FR is more to the brighter side. It's bright, but I wouldn't say I hear sibilance, as some people mentioned and I should add that I have tried to protect my hearing throughout years so I doubt that I like the DT880 sound because my hearing is damaged in some way. Tried to listen to some bass heavy tracks, bass frequencies aren't exaggerated, but it's there, you can identify notes played. Some say that it's light on mids and one could agree with a statement, because of V shape FR, but I wouldn't say as others that human voice doesn't sound like voice or something (what this even means?!). I believe that people who say that such product is on par with cheap consumer cans are simply ignorant or maybe their background is different (spent all their life listening music on bass boosted cans, are not music producers), so for someone who is looking for new cans I would advise to be careful with evaluating such radical statements as valid. Truth is somewhere in the middle. I tried to compare (A/B) with my Razen Kraken V2 cans (bad comparison, I know), but you can simply hear how disgracefully muddy the sound of cheap cans are. DT880 has very clean, detailed, intimate sound, comparable to studio monitors; you can clearly hear/catch things like bow hitting strings, instrument player moving in a chair, etc. DT880s are good at exposing issues in the mix, they don't try to embellish the sound, they stick true to listeners/producers ears. Important note is that some people say that DT880s needs to burn in to fully experience the sound of it. This might be a fact or fiction. To my ears it feels that it sounded brighter at first and it developed in the bass a bit maybe? Or that may be my ears adapting only, who knows...

Stereo image isn't super wide as you would expect from, let's say, AKG K712 Pro, but it is wide to hear instruments separately and hear how music producer placed them in panorama. But this is exactly what you expect when buying semi-open (not open) cans. I read people complaining that there is no 3D image; I simply can't agree with this, because of things mentioned above.

Cons. It's very hard to find any. Cable is coiled (not straight), which may or may not be a preference for some people (maybe not comfortable to record instruments with it?), personally I don't care too much about cable type. Coiled cable looks cool, though. If you looking for bassy cans, you should look elsewhere (at this price range maybe DT770s, ATH M50X). Cans are semi-open, which means that sound leaks to environment (can bleed/leak/spill to the recordings), but that's by design to create wider image; these cans are for mixing/mastering, so if you looking for tracking cans, there are better options (closed backs).


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## SupremeFist (Sep 8, 2021)

Lunar Industries said:


> My first impressions (take it with a pinch of salt, because I don't have much experience with AI's and studio headphones)
> 
> Audient iD14
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you're pretty satisfied so far. (I too wish the id14 had a power switch.)

Now you're set up with a good interface and good headphones, I'd highly recommend you try out the free demo of dsoniq Realphones:









Download the free 41-day version now!


With Realphones, you can work in your headphones as efficiently as you would on professional monitors in an acoustically designed room!




www.dsoniq.com





(I use the Slate VSX system but Realphones with my other decent cans is absolutely my secondary go-to. )


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 8, 2021)

@SupremeFist I will definitely check this out


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## Lunar Industries (Sep 9, 2021)

I have applied oratory1990 EQ settings for DT880 (Harman FR target) and these cans sound even more fun/better now!


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## Vik (Jul 20, 2022)

Hi, are any of you using DAC-amp dongles for use with an iPhone or iPad? I just bought one (Qudelix K5), but I can't get better audio quality than AAC 256kb with Bluetooth, and regular USB->USB-C cables don't work.


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