# Best HQ thunderbolt sound card, to replace my current Clarett 2Pre



## Mike Stone (Aug 8, 2022)

Hi,

I have a Focusrite Clarett 2Pre USB sound card, which I'm very happy with overall, great sound quality. I'm stuck with minimum 128-256 IO buffer size (using a 2018 Mac Mini), and I would like to get less latency during recording keyboard parts in my Logic Pro projects.

Afaik thunderbolt sound cards have less latency, because they work directly with the CPU, unlike USB cards. However, I'm struggling a bit with finding a good alternative to my Clarett 2Pre. I need something similar to the high sound quality of the Clarett (ie. not an entry level quality product). I only need 2 preamps, otherwise nothing fancy, just high quality AD-DAs.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!


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## Kent (Aug 8, 2022)

the problem is Focusrite, not USB, but you really can't go wrong with anything RME! (It'll be the most expensive option, though)


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## method1 (Aug 8, 2022)

AFAIK the Clarett USB is class compliant? 

Buffer size is set in your DAW, do you have the option to choose lower buffer sizes but the Mac can't handle it? Ultimately low latency with core audio comes down to your CPU. Thunderbolt might shave off a couple of milliseconds of latency but it's the computer doing the heavy lifting.


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## Mike Stone (Aug 8, 2022)

Kent said:


> the problem is Focusrite, not USB, but you really can't go wrong with anything RME! (It'll be the most expensive option, though)


Thanks, I will look into RME. However, they have a huge selection of sound cards. Do you know which model that is the closest to the Clarett 2Pre in features (+thunderbolt)?



method1 said:


> AFAIK the Clarett USB is class compliant?
> 
> Buffer size is set in your DAW, do you have the option to choose lower buffer sizes but the Mac can't handle it? Ultimately low latency with core audio comes down to your CPU. Thunderbolt might shave off a couple of milliseconds of latency but it's the computer doing the heavy lifting.


Thanks, my impression was that I could get near half the latency with a good quality thunderbolt sound card, or is this too optimistic? I've been looking at various forums, but there are so many uninformed hot takes, so it's hard to know what to think...

My Mac Mini 2018 i7 barely gets along with IO buffer size at 128, as long as I don't use more demanding sample libraries or more demanding effects. It's still a bit too much latency for my taste, especially for hammond, Clavinet and similar stuff that demand very precise playing.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 8, 2022)

See if you can get an Apogee Element 24. Wonderful interface with crystal clear preamps. Apogee stopped making them, but they are still worth it. I run mine at 128.


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## method1 (Aug 8, 2022)

Thunderbolt will somewhat reduce latency, but the CPU is the main bottleneck with core audio, your CPU has to be able to "keep up" with the interface. To get the lowest advertised RTL on some of these interfaces you have to run at 96khz with 32 buffer - your machine needs to be able to handle that.

If at all possible demo whatever interface you're interested in, that'll let you know for sure if it's time to upgrade your Mac or not!


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## Mike Stone (Aug 8, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> See if you can get an Apogee Element 24. Wonderful interface with crystal clear preamps. Apogee stopped making them, but they are still worth it. I run mine at 128.


Thanks for the tip, I'll look at the model. Btw., how many ms of latency do you get at 128 (roundtrip/output) with the Apogee Element 24?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 8, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> Thanks for the tip, I'll look at the model. Btw., how many ms of latency do you get at 128 (roundtrip/output) with the Apogee Element 24?


If I remember correctly, it’s around 1.4 ms.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 8, 2022)

Its a combination of both the bus and the CPU as well as driver quality. 

This decades long thread is the best source I know of to find out how different devices are doing. They have a master list with many devices, but its somewhat outdated, you have to search through the thread to find other modern devices:









Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base - Gearspace.com


Hey All, I am sure all of us have seen posts over the years where end users have purchased a new audio interface and have experienced varying degrees o



gearspace.com





USB can be the bottleneck compared to Thunderbolt or PCI. Its not only about the over-all bandwidth , which is what marketing teams often publish. Its about the immediate response and jitter. Jitter means that the device is not constantly accessed. It is accessed periodically according to the OS, and it gets clumps of data at a time from it. If you have longer delays between accessing the device, then that is the lowest latency you can get.

The driver itself will often take this into account and will not allow a super low latency when it knows that the device is not accessed reliably at that rate. You will notice with most USB devices that at the lower buffer settings, the latency doesn't cut in half compared to the one above it. They hard code in a bottom amount of latency...which frankly speaking for USB...is nowhere near the amount achieved by PCI and thunderbolt. USB is definitely the bottleneck in this regard.

Thunderbolt can be thought of like external PCI. it has more direct and prioritized access to data streams then USB does. That is why, for example, MOTU has numerous Thunderbolt devices that claim 1.6ms round trip latency with 32 buffer at 96khz. That's best case scenario. There is not any USB device that can touch that kind of reported latency...from anyone, anywhere. 

So its not crazy to seek thunderbolt for lower latency (or PCI).

However, your computer cpu also has to be able to keep up with that. If it can't, you'll get audio drop outs while the driver attempts to do it.

The thread I mentioned above has lots of scores and you can see generally the top performers are all PCI or thunderbolt solutions. USB are down the list. 

Mind you, 5ms one way latency is achievable with USB...and is usually good enough for most people...so USB is not unusable. But different manufacturers can build better or worse drivers and/or their actual hardware can be better or worse...that is true of USB and thunderbolt both...

So you have to consider all three aspects.... USB vs Thunderbolt (or PCI).....driver quality, and is your CPU able to keep up with it.

I spent some money on a Lynx solution, combined with x32 mixer. its on PCI bus and Lynx makes extremely good drivers, but my 5,1 Mac Pro really can't use the lowest buffer settings without coughing and sputtering...so really my old Mac bottoms out around 3ms at best...and really around 5ms is where its happy. My experience with USB on the same computer is that it needs more like 10ms and some USB are worse then others, but between 5-10ms, USB craps out, but with the PCI bus solution it was able to get closer to 5ms and possibly even lower with a synth that doesn't use a lot of CPU. But 5ms is quite good enough.

Anyway, I heartily reccomend thunderbolt over USB, MOTU makes great TB devices but probably the mic pre's are not as good as the focus rite, but that's a matter of subjective opinion. They are still quite good and acceptable. Presonus has some TB devices that are less expensive and solid. There are others as well.


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## method1 (Aug 8, 2022)

re: element 24, Apogee says 

1.41ms round-trip at 96kHz with a 32 buffer setting


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## Mike Stone (Aug 9, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Its a combination of both the bus and the CPU as well as driver quality.
> 
> ....
> 
> Anyway, I heartily reccomend thunderbolt over USB, MOTU makes great TB devices but probably the mic pre's are not as good as the focus rite, but that's a matter of subjective opinion. They are still quite good and acceptable. Presonus has some TB devices that are less expensive and solid. There are others as well.



Many thanks, that was highly informative, including the audio interface thread. I will definitely look into those brands you mentioned.



method1 said:


> re: element 24, Apogee says
> 
> 1.41ms round-trip at 96kHz with a 32 buffer setting



Yikes, that's crushing my system. I get 6.9ms with the same settings. However, anything over 44.1/48khz with 128 buffer results in lots of crackling. Clearly these newer M1-based systems are crushing the 2018 Mac Mini i7, or maybe the Focusrite drivers are also more CPU-demanding on lower latencies?

Thanks again for the help. Apple's new M1-based computers are very expensive, so I'm trying to hold out until at least M2 Pro/Max - or preferably M3. I'd rather wait a little longer anyway, because of all the 3rd party stuff I use and reported latency issues when running Logic in Rosetta mode. Buying a lower latency sound card for now, would be a step in the right direction..


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## Loïc D (Aug 9, 2022)

I’ve gone Antelope a few months ago and I’m very happy with it (Discrete 8 Synergy Core), though many people are complaining about the lack of support.
I was targeting RME but it was out of stock for months and I grew tired of waiting.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 9, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> Many thanks, that was highly informative, including the audio interface thread. I will definitely look into those brands you mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I used the Apogee on my former 2013 MacBook Pro, running at 128. No issues. Can run at 32 on the 2020 iMac (Intel), but don’t need to


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> Yikes, that's crushing my system. I get 6.9ms with the same settings. However, anything over 44.1/48khz with 128 buffer results in lots of crackling. Clearly these newer M1-based systems are crushing the 2018 Mac Mini i7, or maybe the Focusrite drivers are also more CPU-demanding on lower latencies?



Its a combination of the driver, the device, the bus and your CPU. 

Your CPU can definitely do better then you are reporting. You don't need to get an M1 in order to get 128 buffer without crackling or even down to 64 buffer. Maybe not likely to get buffer size 32 working..regardless of the device used. But in any case, I know your machine is capable of better then that. So then you have to consider different audio devices. Ideally, non-USB will be more likely to get you there.

What kind of latency do you get with the built in sound card on the Mac BTW?

When you say 6.9ms, how are you coming to that number? Reported from where? Is that Round Trip latency or one way? Did you try to do an actual RTL loopback test?

Honestly 6.9ms is not terrible. But if it was crackling then that isn't your lowest latency, it would be something higher then that with a larger buffer where it doesn't crackle.



Mike Stone said:


> Thanks again for the help. Apple's new M1-based computers are very expensive, so I'm trying to hold out until at least M2 Pro/Max - or preferably M3. I'd rather wait a little longer anyway, because of all the 3rd party stuff I use and reported latency issues when running Logic in Rosetta mode. Buying a lower latency sound card for now, would be a step in the right direction..



It might. Make sure there is a good return policy on anything you buy.


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## Mike Stone (Aug 9, 2022)

Loïc D said:


> I’ve gone Antelope a few months ago and I’m very happy with it (Discrete 8 Synergy Core), though many people are complaining about the lack of support.
> I was targeting RME but it was out of stock for months and I grew tired of waiting.


Antelope Discrete 4 Synergy Core seems quite impressive. The problem with the thunderbolt sound cards I'm looking at, is they're either an expensive large rack with many preamps, or use DSP chips, ending up costing 3x times or more than something like Clarett 2Pre.



Dewdman42 said:


> Its a combination of the driver, the device, the bus and your CPU.
> 
> Your CPU can definitely do better then you are reporting. You don't need to get an M1 in order to get 128 buffer without crackling or even down to 64 buffer. Maybe not likely to get buffer size 32 working..regardless of the device used. But in any case, I know your machine is capable of better then that. So then you have to consider different audio devices. Ideally, non-USB will be more likely to get you there.
> 
> What kind of latency do you get with the built in sound card on the Mac BTW?



With the internal sound chip, Logic reports a roundtrip latency of 10.3 ms ([email protected] IO buffer). I get 12.2ms with my Clarett 2Pre. That isn't terrible, but 6-8ms would definitely be better. However, buying a $1200-1400 sound card just to get thunderbolt is a bit much for me.

The Apogee Element 24 (as Jeremy Spencer recommended) seems good though, but it's been discontinued for a while now, and I worry about future MacOS and Apple silicone compatibility (e.g. Logic 10.7 demands MacOS Monterey). I'd prefer to buy something new and more future proof.

All I need is a fairly basic thunderbolt sound card with a couple of preamps, and high quality AD-DA (like Clarett 2Pre). For some reason, not a lot of those around it seems.

Thanks again for the help, much appreciated.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

depends a lot on what plugins you are trying to use at the same time as you are recording parts. Reduce that to minimal also to impact your CPU less or at least remove your CPU from the discussion as much as possible.

I agree its more money for super low latency..that is what it is...there are no cheap devices with super low latency, except the built in sound card on your Mac probably gets pretty low latency and its not expensive  And if you try to use a lot of plugins then your CPU will crap out anyway.

There is really no magic bullet. I just did a test using the built in sound card on my 2010 MacPro and I easily was playing Pianoteq through it without crackles...buffer=32, RTL=6ms. But I know if I put more plugins on there, I will have to raise it to 128 probably..and then I'm gonna be closer to 10ms RTL, but that is actually quite fine for me.

I spent an unreal amount of money for a PCI solution (which isn't hooked up at the moment)..and it can get lower latency with less overhead, no question. My next sound card will be Thunderbolt and I will hope to run the sound card at around 3-5ms RTL. Most likely something from MOTU which is likely to be $999. And by then I'll have a newer Mac too.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

I've heard good things also about the Presonus Quantum which I think is in the $699 range if I'm not mistaken.


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## Mike Stone (Aug 9, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> depends a lot on what plugins you are trying to use at the same time as you are recording parts. Reduce that to minimal also to impact your CPU less or at least remove your CPU from the discussion as much as possible.
> 
> I agree its more money for super low latency..that is what it is...there are no cheap devices with super low latency, except the built in sound card on your Mac probably gets pretty low latency and its not expensive  And if you try to use a lot of plugins then your CPU will crap out anyway.
> 
> ...


Very true. I just looked at the M2 sound card from MOTU:





M2 | MOTU.com


The M2 is a 2-in/2-out USB-C audio interface for Mac, Windows and iOS that offers best-in-class audio quality, best-in-class speed (ultra-low latency) and best-in-class metering with a full-color LCD.




motu.com





It says a RTL at 2.5ms at [email protected] buffer size, vs. my Clarett 2Pre which gets 6ms. Afaik MOTU only uses USB with their sound cards, but the latency is a lot better at this setting (doesn't say what the latency is at 44.1khz/128 buffer size).

MOTU M2 is less than half the price of the Clarett 2Pre, so I doubt the DA converters sound as good. I'll keep looking I'll guess.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

If I were buying a MOTU today it would be the 828es. $999

Check out Presonus Quantum. $699

By the way, the DA's on any MOTU are going to be fine. If you want a fancy high end preamp you are going to be way over $1000.. Anything under $1000 from just about any of the big companies are going to be pretty comparable in terms of DA quality and mic pre (knock on wood)


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## Mike Stone (Aug 9, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> I've heard good things also about the Presonus Quantum which I think is in the $699 range if I'm not mistaken.


I just looked at the product page, now we're talking.  It has more preamp inputs than I need (I mostly need high quality DA-converters), but this is certainly the best one so far. Thanks!


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> (doesn't say what the latency is at 44.1khz/128 buffer size).


Generally, the sample rate just cuts the latency proportionally. 

At 96k, the buffer represents exactly half as much time compared to 48k. So if they report a certain latency at 96k, then double that latency for 48k and it will be a little longer then that for 44k.

But also keep in mind that at higher sample rates....the CPU is working twice as hard!


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## marius_dm (Aug 9, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> The Apogee Element 24 (as Jeremy Spencer recommended) seems good though, but it's been discontinued for a while now, and I worry about future MacOS and Apple silicone compatibility (e.g. Logic 10.7 demands MacOS Monterey). I'd prefer to buy something new and more future proof.


I have both an Element 24 and an RME Digiface USB connected to a bunch of M-Audio Profire 2626s. Apogee really disappointed me as a company, it's been 2 years now and the Element is still glitchy on M1 (the mixer app resets randomly, can't save settings, reloads randomly, etc). So I use it as a standalone ADDA connected through ADAT to the Digiface. Conversion and preamps sound good.

As far as Thunderbolt vs USB latency, I wouldn't bother with TB. An RME USB interface will be more stable and will have lower latency than most other brands' TB interfaces. I run medium sized projects at 64 samples using the Digiface USB.

Looking at the Gearspace thread, the RME UFX+ USB has less latency than the Presonus Quantum TB, for what it's worth.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

how much does the RME cost? Please report your actual measured latency with it.


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## marius_dm (Aug 9, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> how much does the RME cost?


If you meant the Digiface USB, you can probably get it under $500, but remember that you will need to BYOIO ("bring your own IO" using ADAT).


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

I see the RME UFX+ for $3000 new. It should be noted also that it is one of the few actual USB3 interfaces on the market which distinguishes it from other USB devices generally.


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## marius_dm (Aug 9, 2022)

There's no latency difference between USB2 vs USB3. There are bandwidth differences, but the OP only needs 2 input preamps, so not an issue.

EDIT: See this for reference: https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en...are-Focusrite-interfaces-USB-2-0-not-USB-3-0-


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

you're talking theoretical now... Post your actual measured latency. I'm just pointing out...USB generally cannot keep up with TB. You are wrong to say otherwise. TB is simply better then USB2. If RME did something special with USB3 in the UFX+ I can't say, but for $3000 I would hope so. But across the board with everyone else, TB will slay USB2. You can see that pattern clearly on the GearSlutz thread...and PCI slays Thunderbolt even more so!


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## Mike Stone (Aug 9, 2022)

Thanks for all the help guys, really appreciated! I just ordered a Presonus Quantum 2626. It's an updated version of the original Quantum. It's the same low latency, DA-converters and preamps, but it has slightly less IOs and lacks remote monitoring - nothing that I'll miss. It's also nearly half the price of the original, and uses the updated thunderbolt 3 port.

It will be interesting to compare the latency of this one to my current Clarett Pre2.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

please let us know! Good luck


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 9, 2022)

marius_dm said:


> it's been 2 years now and the Element is still glitchy on M1


That is definitely a concern! I won't be on M1 anytime soon, but I hope my Element will still work past Monterey.


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## marius_dm (Aug 9, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> you're talking theoretical now... Post your actual measured latency. I'm just pointing out...USB generally cannot keep up with TB. You are wrong to say otherwise. TB is simply better then USB2. If RME did something special with USB3 in the UFX+ I can't say, but for $3000 I would hope so. But across the board with everyone else, TB will slay USB2. You can see that pattern clearly on the GearSlutz thread...and PCI slays Thunderbolt even more so!


"In general" I think that's a fair assessment IF the drivers are done properly. I've never had an issue with RME, not a single glitch. And really, nobody can even tell the difference between 1ms RTL and 2.5-3ms RTL. It's a non-issue in my opinion.



Jeremy Spencer said:


> That is definitely a concern! I won't be on M1 anytime soon, but I hope my Element will still work past Monterey.


It still works though, but I will say that the fact that I'm working in my daw and all of a sudden the Apogee mixer window pops up with a message asking me to confirm a reload of the mixer app gets really old after a while. Also, every time I reconnect my laptop to the dock, I need to reload a saved mixer preset since it doesn't remember the mixer settings. Annoying. These are all in the "Known Issues" list on Apogee's site, since Oct last year...









Apogee Products and macOS Monterey compatibility - Apogee Electronics


Apogee is pleased to announce compatibility with the release of macOS Catalina and iOS 13.Please see the macOS Catalina (10.15) and iOS 13 compatibility status for each product below.




apogeedigital.com


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

marius_dm said:


> "In general" I think that's a fair assessment IF the drivers are done properly. I've never had an issue with RME, not a single glitch. And really, nobody can even tell the difference between 1ms RTL and 2.5-3ms RTL. It's a non-issue in my opinion.



RME definitely makes great stuff! and I agree that anything below 5ms is basically awesome. and personally I think most of the time anything under 10ms is perfectly fine, at least for midi and instrument plugins. Singing vocals and playing guitar through plugins are probably where the RTL is most critical... When singing with headphones, the latency causes comb effects in the inner ear. bleh.. singing can be dealt with by direct monitoring instead of monitoring through the software. Guitar plugins..that's really the one you can't get around because you're trying to play a sound into the computer through plugins...and there is no way around full RTL latency...and you can really feel the latency ...and for me...I really can feel the latency even at 10ms... But at 5ms I definitely can't. But then again, if you stand ten feet away from a guitar amp...that is 10ms....so whatever....




marius_dm said:


> It still works though, but I will say that the fact that I'm working in my daw and all of a sudden the Apogee mixer window pops up with a message asking me to confirm a reload of the mixer app gets really old after a while. Also, every time I reconnect my laptop to the dock, I need to reload a saved mixer preset since it doesn't remember the mixer settings. Annoying.



Never used Apogee myself, but that doesn't sound good. I have had very good results with MOTU however. In the past I had an RME PCI device and it was pretty awesome but only a few ins/outs. The larger RME devices have always just been too darn expensive for me, but in my perfect world I would be using RME in PCI slots on an M3 MacPro... hehe. But I'm also quite happy with MOTU which has a lot of similar concepts as RME with their AVB protocol, etc. My next round of interfaces are most likely to be MOTU, its more affordable then RME and still very quality.


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## P3TAAL (Aug 9, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a Focusrite Clarett 2Pre USB sound card, which I'm very happy with overall, great sound quality. I'm stuck with minimum 128-256 IO buffer size (using a 2018 Mac Mini), and I would like to get less latency during recording keyboard parts in my Logic Pro projects.
> 
> ...


I have a Claret 2 pre which is thunderbolt. Just wondered if you were aware


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## Mike Stone (Aug 9, 2022)

P3TAAL said:


> I have a Claret 2 pre which is thunderbolt. Just wondered if you were aware


I used to own one a few years ago.  It was discontinued several years ago, Focusrite only sells the Clarett+ USB version now.



Dewdman42 said:


> please let us know! Good luck


I will, thanks! I should have it by the end of the week.


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## P3TAAL (Aug 9, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> I used to own one a few years ago.  It was discontinued several years ago, Focusrite only sells the Clarett+ USB version now.


Oh, i didn't realise they only sell the USB now.


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## marius_dm (Aug 9, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Please report your actual measured latency with it.


Curiosity got the best of me, so I did a loopback test. This is going through the Digiface USB as an audio interface connected to an M-Audio Profire 2626 through ADAT.

I'm sending a drum hit using one of the Profire's outs and recording on one of the inputs on the same Profire. So entire chain is M1 MBP with Reaper at 44.1, 64 samples -> Digiface USB -> Profire 2626 via ADAT and back.

Seems like the 2.2ms reported by Reaper are actually dead on accurate (the top time unit is samples and the bottom is Minutes:Seconds).






EDIT: Added another screenshot to show the length in seconds of the selection:


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## FWB (Aug 9, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> Thanks for all the help guys, really appreciated! I just ordered a Presonus Quantum 2626. It's an updated version of the original Quantum. It's the same low latency, DA-converters and preamps, but it has slightly less IOs and lacks remote monitoring - nothing that I'll miss. It's also nearly half the price of the original, and uses the updated thunderbolt 3 port.
> 
> It will be interesting to compare the latency of this one to my current Clarett Pre2.


I have a Quantum 2626 and I'm a Logic user and run a MacMini M1.
Used to have an Apollo Twin TB and before that one the original RME Babyface. Those two were flawless and with low latency.
The Quantum sounds great, better than the other two and can run at even lower latency. Not too large projects - read not too many heavy samplelibs. - can run at 32 samples/44.1 khz with RT in Logic 1.9 ms. Another big positive thing: There is no mixer software to deal with - all monitoring is done within your DAW, which IMO is so much better than dealing with an extra mixer.
In Logic this means you must activate and use the software monitoring function. If you have any questions feel free to ask .


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## method1 (Aug 9, 2022)

marius_dm said:


> Curiosity got the best of me, so I did a loopback test. This is going through the Digiface USB as an audio interface connected to an M-Audio Profire 2626 through ADAT.
> 
> I'm sending a drum hit using one of the Profire's outs and recording on one of the inputs on the same Profire. So entire chain is M1 MBP with Reaper at 44.1, 64 samples -> Digiface USB -> Profire 2626 via ADAT and back.
> 
> ...



Do you have "'Use audio driver reported latency'" checked in reaper? Curious because the latency figures in the status bar add up to 4.4ms.


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## marius_dm (Aug 9, 2022)

method1 said:


> Do you have "'Use audio driver reported latency'" checked in reaper? Curious because the latency figures in the status bar add up to 4.4ms.


Yeah, seems like it was selected. But unchecking it doesn't seem to change anything in the status bar. Not sure how that reported latency is supposed to work, but it's hard to argue with a hard loopback test using a TS cable I would think. Especially since it's going through an ADAT IO.


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## Scottyb (Aug 9, 2022)

Definitely check out Antelope! For the price of what you get, they're very hard to beat. The quality of the pre-amps is honestly equal to UA. And their plug-ins are up there as well. We're a dealer for both so I can say that. : ) Presonus is also very good, but the Antelope and UA pre-amps are just wonderful! But you get way more I/O for the money with Antelope between those two.


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## method1 (Aug 9, 2022)

marius_dm said:


> Yeah, seems like it was selected. But unchecking it doesn't seem to change anything in the status bar. Not sure how that reported latency is supposed to work, but it's hard to argue with a hard loopback test using a TS cable I would think. Especially since it's going through an ADAT IO.


If it was selected, it will adjust the audio position automatically to try and compensate, loopback test should be done with it unchecked, so that you know the "real" latency, you can then enter the correct offset with it checked.


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## marius_dm (Aug 9, 2022)

method1 said:


> If it was selected, it will adjust the audio position automatically to try and compensate, loopback test should be done with it unchecked, so that you know the "real" latency, you can then enter the correct offset with it checked.


HA, that's good to know! I just did another test without it and the offset is about 5.3ms.

I did another test at 44.1, 32 samples and the offset is 4ms.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

This free utility is helpful for measuring RTL in a systematic and automatic way...



Oblique Audio - RTL Utility


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## marius_dm (Aug 9, 2022)

At any rate, the best PCI interface today (RME HDSPe AIO Pro) has an RTL of *4ms* at 64 samples VS Digiface USB which is *5.3ms* at 64 samples. 

In conclusion, negligible.


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## marius_dm (Aug 9, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> This free utility is helpful for measuring RTL in a systematic and automatic way...
> 
> 
> 
> Oblique Audio - RTL Utility


Yeah, I tried using that but I'm getting tons of issues on M1, I had to force quit it. Does anyone know if it works on Apple Silicon? Can't find anything online.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 9, 2022)

aiui 6ms latency is roughly the equivalent of playing an instrument while standing 6 feet away from the monitor speaker. I do that all the time when playing guitar live and it's hardly a problem. Sometimes people get hooked on chasing specs that don't matter.


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## cedricm (Aug 9, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a Focusrite Clarett 2Pre USB sound card, which I'm very happy with overall, great sound quality. I'm stuck with minimum 128-256 IO buffer size (using a 2018 Mac Mini), and I would like to get less latency during recording keyboard parts in my Logic Pro projects.
> 
> ...


I'm very happy with my Antelope Audio ZenQ Synergy Core, Thunderbolt version. Since then, a USB version is also available.

The audio quality is outstanding, the build quality is top notch for the price range. And of course, there are DSPs + FPGA inside.

There are always great deals to be had, Antelope rotates its special offers every few weeks.
I purchased it with a modeling mic, 37 effects, a full Bitwig Studio 4 license for a ridiculous price*.

There's a single downside, in my opinion, compared to the Apollo ecosystem: The effect catalog is less deep, it's mostly hardware emulations, some of them quite rare. So if you're not into those kind of plugins, it's a point to consider.

Conversely, if you're an effect freak and money is no object, you may want to choose a higher end model with even more processing power. Some models include world renowned clocking, some are compatible with Atmos up to 9.1.6, and depending on your needs most interfaces: HDX, Dante, Madi and whatnot.

* Such a good deal indeed, that they replaced the $399 Edge Solo in this bundle with the $149 Edge Note since then.
I also sold my Bitwig Studio 4 license, which was probably a mistake, but made the bundle a steal.


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## Mike Stone (Aug 15, 2022)

Just got the Quantum 2626 today. At 44.1khz/128 IO buffer I went from 12.2ms to 6.3ms RTL, and 18ms to 12.2ms at 44.1khz/256 IO buffer.

However, 128 IO buffer size is a bit more demanding on the CPU now, so I have to be more careful. Still, I can comfortably MIDI record at half the latency, as long as I don't push things too far. Worth the money I'd say.


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## method1 (Aug 15, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> Just got the Quantum 2626 today. At 44.1khz/128 IO buffer I went from 12.2ms to 6.3ms RTL, and 18ms to 12.2ms at 44.1khz/256 IO buffer.
> 
> However, 128 IO buffer size is a bit more demanding on the CPU now, so I have to be more careful. Still, I can comfortably MIDI record at half the latency, as long as I don't push things too far. Worth the money I'd say.


Glad you got it sorted!

For comparison, here's my RTL in Cubase on an M1 max 44/128 (connected via ethernet)


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## rickdeckard (Aug 15, 2022)

FWB said:


> I have a Quantum 2626 and I'm a Logic user and run a MacMini M1.
> Used to have an Apollo Twin TB and before that one the original RME Babyface. Those two were flawless and with low latency.
> The Quantum sounds great, better than the other two and can run at even lower latency. Not too large projects - read not too many heavy samplelibs. - can run at 32 samples/44.1 khz with RT in Logic 1.9 ms. Another big positive thing: There is no mixer software to deal with - all monitoring is done within your DAW, which IMO is so much better than dealing with an extra mixer.
> In Logic this means you must activate and use the software monitoring function. If you have any questions feel free to ask .


I'm in the market for an interface and was really looking at the Quantum 2626.
I'm on a MacBook Pro M1 Pro 14". Did you find it to be stable - as in staying connected and not crashing etc etc - ?
I'm actually a Studio One user and the integration would be even better.
I don't need that many inputs at the moment, but they might come in handy down the line, but in general what I'm more interested is the quality of the preamplifiers and of the conversion / headphone outputs. I'm actually happy of the idea not to have to deal with a dsp and a separate mixer.

Thanks for your help!
Best
-r


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## FWB (Aug 21, 2022)

rickdeckard said:


> I'm in the market for an interface and was really looking at the Quantum 2626.
> I'm on a MacBook Pro M1 Pro 14". Did you find it to be stable - as in staying connected and not crashing etc etc - ?
> I'm actually a Studio One user and the integration would be even better.
> I don't need that many inputs at the moment, but they might come in handy down the line, but in general what I'm more interested is the quality of the preamplifiers and of the conversion / headphone outputs. I'm actually happy of the idea not to have to deal with a dsp and a separate mixer.
> ...


Sorry for the late answer. Yes, for the 7 months I've had the Quantum, it has been very stable in my setup - no problems at all. The sound quality is very good too - also for preamps and headphones. And I agree - it is a big relief not having to deal with a separate mixer.
Besides Logic I have Studio One installed too, but for whatever reason, I have never dived deeper into using the two together - I'm too used to work in Logic - but yes, you can control several features on the Quantum from within Studio One. So go for it  ...


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