# 2013 mac pro 6.1 or new 2020 iMac 27inch 8 or 10 core?



## jamie8 (Sep 26, 2020)

i am considering selling my trashcan mac , its a 10 core 3.0 ghrz with 64 ram. 
i need help in determining if i should stay with this machine or buy a new iMac 2020 27inch i7 or i9.
my trashcan has a cal digit hub and i use it with a couple of gtech ssd 's and a thunderbolt 2 to 3 cable for my thunderbolt 3 owc raid drive. i generaly use a bunch of kontakt and bbcso pro stuff as well as other heavy virtual instruments such as omnisphere dune and zebra. i am on os 10.3.6 high sierra , and pro tools is my main daw although i do use logic. i seem to be hitting the wall with this setup and was wondering if i just upgraded the ram to 128megs and perhaps got a 2280 M.2 NVMe SSD would that help.
i know the speed of the 2280 M.2 NVMe SSD would help with loading times but i also know it would have nothing to do with single core performance on the mac and that is key.
would getting more ram help or would i just be better off and pick up the new iMac? 
this system also uses a uad apollo . how are you guys doing with larger templates , multiple articulations and at what buffer size? i don't want to go backwards and i am limited on my budget,
any advice would be greatly appreciated, 
james


----------



## jcrosby (Sep 26, 2020)

jamie8 said:


> i am considering selling my trashcan mac , its a 10 core 3.0 ghrz with 64 ram.
> i need help in determining if i should stay with this machine or buy a new iMac 2020 27inch i7 or i9.
> my trashcan has a cal digit hub and i use it with a couple of gtech ssd 's and a thunderbolt 2 to 3 cable for my thunderbolt 3 owc raid drive. i generaly use a bunch of kontakt and bbcso pro stuff as well as other heavy virtual instruments such as omnisphere dune and zebra. i am on os 10.3.6 high sierra , and pro tools is my main daw although i do use logic. i seem to be hitting the wall with this setup and was wondering if i just upgraded the ram to 128megs and perhaps got a 2280 M.2 NVMe SSD would that help.
> i know the speed of the 2280 M.2 NVMe SSD would help with loading times but i also know it would have nothing to do with single core performance on the mac and that is key.
> ...


It depends on what you mean by hitting the wall. RAM will have essentially no impact unless you are literally running out of memory. Macos lets you also get pretty damn close to the system memory limit before you'll see hangs. Basically if you know you're not running your memory usage right near the physical limitation of your machine that's a pretty decent indication that your CPU's the bottleneck.

As CPUs evolve plugins evolve to take advantage of new 'features' like AVX. I noticed my 12 core MP started to feel sluggish. When I upgraded my MBP it was pretty obvious that in many ways the MBP could outpace the MP. If I were strictly working in a bare bones project just running kontakt with no plugins the MP would win for sure on kontakt count. But once you start to add audio plugins, add send fx and busses into the equation, the MBP could handle significantly heavier single core loads.

Even my MBP handles Omnisphere and zebra with ease compared to my old 12 core MP. My 9900k hackintosh slices though them like a hot knife on butter... The 10 core imac gets higher track counts in the Logic benchmark than my hackintosh so you'd be looking at even better performance...

If you want something that's going to still feel snappy in 5-7 or years I'd serioulsy consider the i9 if you decide to go with the new imac. These handle single core tasks more aggressively and I find they handle lower latency buffers with ease compared to older CPUs. There's a thread about the new imac, a search should reveal it easily. Surely someone else in that thread came from a 2013 MP, I'd imagine someone can give you an idea of how it compares to the new imac.

The bigger question is Catalina, and/or Big Sur. Compatibility's the main issue you should be asking yourself about if you're going to buy a new machine. I've seen people have Pro Tools issues if not up to date. I belive these have more or less been addressed, if you're running an older version however you should absolutely check if your version of Pro Tools compaible with 10.15 and beyond. You can see compatibility issues if older haven't been updated in a few years. Basically I'd spend more time checking compatibility than CPU specs... I'd also do the same thing I've been recommending to everyone moving to Catalina if coming from more than one OS behind... Build a bootable clone, boot to it on your current machine, and actually test your DAW(s) and plugins for compatibility. Catalina is quite different from 10.13

Personally I'd avoid Big Sur, it's almost certainly going ot be a long while before a lot of software runs and or is stable under it. Not only is it new, it's a major shift in macos's archtecture. Catalina was bad enough, Big Sur is surely likely to have far more compatibility issues... In theory a 10 core imac will let you downgrade to Catalina but I'd double check this so don't quote me as the saying goes... 

Finally, you could also wait a few months and grab a refurb imac from Apple. No difference than new and will save you a few bucks...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 26, 2020)

I don't understand why people are running out of single-core horsepower on a 5,1 12-core.

There is simply no way for me to max mine out with Omnisphere, even with big multis. I tried and I couldn't do it.


----------



## jamie8 (Sep 26, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> If you want something that's going to still feel snappy in 5-7 or years I'd serioulsy consider the i9 if you decide to go with the new imac. These handle single core tasks more aggressively and I find they handle lower latency buffers with ease compared to older CPUs. There's a thread about the new imac, a search should reveal it easily. Surely someone else in that thread came from a 2013 MP, I'd imagine someone can give you an idea of how it compares to the new imac.


from what i understand the i 7 is actually better due to the performance throttling of the i9 chip.
with the i9 and the amount of wattage it draws is being limited so as to not overheat.
there are some videos on you tube showing the i7 will draw more power with the 8 core , run cooler and consistently run at a higher clock speed than the i9. however the i9, does seem to get about 6 more tracks as in a higher count in logic. . again thank you for the help as every bit of help i can get get is appreciated,
james


----------



## jamie8 (Sep 26, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I don't understand why people are running out of single-core horsepower on a 5,1 12-core.
> 
> There is simply no way for me to max mine out with Omnisphere, even with big multis. I tried and I couldn't do it.


hi nick , this machine is a 6.1 2013. and it seems the more i research the bottle neck is the cpu,plugins like bbcso pro can really tax it.
i made a mock up of elenore rigby the other day and at a 512 buffer with 5 instances of spitfire, jake jackson mix 2 and a close mike as well, two instances of chris hein on kontak 6.4.1 one for cello the other for contrabass and it was having trouble. have also had trouble running symphonic motions, always have to use that on in granuar low cpu mode.


----------



## holywilly (Sep 26, 2020)

Invest in VEP might be more practical, using VEP for VI will free you lots of cpu power for your DAW.


----------



## jamie8 (Sep 26, 2020)

holywilly said:


> Invest in VEP might be more practical, using VEP for VI will free you lots of cpu power for your DAW.


how so? do i need to run this on another computer or just my mac and if this is the case would that not tax my system more? please tell me as im not vep literate.
thanks james


----------



## holywilly (Sep 26, 2020)

You can run VEP on the same machine. This is how I do it for years. I’m using Mac Pro 6,1 12 cores, 128GB of rams, my template also contain the whole BBCSO, everything runs smoothly.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 27, 2020)

jamie8 said:


> hi nick , this machine is a 6.1 2013. and it seems the more i research the bottle neck is the cpu,plugins like bbcso pro can really tax it.
> i made a mock up of elenore rigby the other day and at a 512 buffer with 5 instances of spitfire, jake jackson mix 2 and a close mike as well, two instances of chris hein on kontak 6.4.1 one for cello the other for contrabass and it was having trouble. have also had trouble running symphonic motions, always have to use that on in granuar low cpu mode.



I don't have all those libraries, so I can't check.

But okay, I believe you.


----------



## jamie8 (Sep 27, 2020)

holywilly said:


> You can run VEP on the same machine. This is how I do it for years. I’m using Mac Pro 6,1 12 cores, 128GB of rams, my template also contain the whole BBCSO, everything runs smoothly.


OK thanks that sounds good I’m going to look into that


----------



## ptram (Sep 27, 2020)

I don't know about Pro Tools, but VEPRO makes working with Dorico much, much easier. The CPU goes very light. More or less, it is the same amount of CPU taken by Logic.

Paolo


----------



## Mattia Chiappa (Sep 27, 2020)

I have an iMac 2015 32GB , i7 Quad. Nothing impressive about this machine but it allows me to run a fairly big template very smoothly with pretty much zero issues. The real problem with it are those super noisy fans. Overall they are very distracting and make tasks like mixing and mastering extremely difficult even at medium high volumes. Many simple things like recording with condenser mics are no longer an option for me how loud they are. I don't know if I was unlucky or if it aged badly but I would advise against an iMac or at least look into that issue.


----------



## jbuhler (Oct 3, 2020)

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I have an iMac 2015 32GB , i7 Quad. Nothing impressive about this machine but it allows me to run a fairly big template very smoothly with pretty much zero issues. The real problem with it are those super noisy fans. Overall they are very distracting and make tasks like mixing and mastering extremely difficult even at medium high volumes. Many simple things like recording with condenser mics are no longer an option for me how loud they are. I don't know if I was unlucky or if it aged badly but I would advise against an iMac or at least look into that issue.


I have a similar iMac but with 64GB. Fan only rarely comes on when working with audio. It comes on quite a lot when working with video editing or when I run OBS. And yes when it comes on it’s very noisy.


----------



## ridgero (Oct 4, 2020)

I had a Mac Pro 2013 with 12 Cores and switched to an iMac Pro 10 Core.

It is a completely different story. The iMac feels way more modern and snappy due the good single core performance. The TB3 ports are important for my workflow as well.

I guess the iMac 2020 i7/i9 will deliver an even better single core performance.


----------



## khollister (Oct 6, 2020)

I recall Christian Henson comparing his new iMac Pro (at the time) to his old trashcan MP and the iMac Pro killed it using Logic. Given the 2020 iMac i7/i9 seems to have a minor increase in performance (based on geekbench single/multi) over the similar 8/10 core iMP, I would think the 2020 iMac would be a big step up over your 6.1.

Interestingly, the geekbench multi scores listed the Geekbench browser are lower than the iMP with the same number of cores. Barefeats had an article a while back that listed geekbench multi scores for the i9 10 core that were quite a bit higher and explained theyy moved the RAM sticks to enable dual channel memory operation. The insinuation was that Apple didn't install them optimally to begin with !?.

I also have a 10 core iMP and am very happy with it. As far as playing demanding instruments live in LPX (throws it onto a single thread when armed), it absolutely slaughtered my old 6 core 5.1 MP cheesegrater. Never owned a trashcan MP, but ridgero's experience above aligns with the videos CH did back in 2017/2018


----------



## Ashermusic (Oct 6, 2020)

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I have an iMac 2015 32GB , i7 Quad. Nothing impressive about this machine but it allows me to run a fairly big template very smoothly with pretty much zero issues. The real problem with it are those super noisy fans. Overall they are very distracting and make tasks like mixing and mastering extremely difficult even at medium high volumes. Many simple things like recording with condenser mics are no longer an option for me how loud they are. I don't know if I was unlucky or if it aged badly but I would advise against an iMac or at least look into that issue.



i just replaced my 2013 iMac and it didn’t have that issue. I was actually considering a 2015 iMac like yours but instead got a 2018 Mac mini six core i7 with 64 GB.


----------



## rickdeckard (Oct 6, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> i just replaced my 2013 iMac and it didn’t have that issue. I was actually considering a 2015 iMac like yours but instead got a 2018 Mac mini six core i7 with 64 GB.


How are you finding your mini ? Thanks!


----------



## Ashermusic (Oct 6, 2020)

rickdeckard said:


> How are you finding your mini ? Thanks!



How am I finding it? I turn left at my living room 

So far, so good. Not my dream machine but faster than my previous machine, has 64 GB, and will be able to run Big Sur when the time comes and I didn’t spend a ton of dough.


----------



## colony nofi (Oct 7, 2020)

We have a 2018 mac mini in our studios and our trash cans beat it out by a fair margin for most audio work.

We also have a 2019 imac kitted out completely, and for about 80% of projects, it outperforms the trashcans, and I'm guessing the one's it doesn't is potentially due to some esoteric software we run / other things potentially not setup correctly on the imac. However, we have run into thermal issues on the imac, and will not be considering for purchasing again until the arm macs come along (and that opens its own can of worms)

Indeed, we are once again looking at needing to upgrade 2 rooms that are currently trash cans, and I'm leaning towards building PC's. But we are a number of studios, and have different requirements than single machine (or even dual machine) users.

imac also ties you to the screen, and the 27" form factor doesn't fit in well to the direction we are heading with ergonomics, monitoring (video, computer, audio (inc surround)

I kinda do wish that mac mini's were more up to the challenge, but they are really quite limited when you put them alongside trashcans / imacs or other decently spec'd PC workstations (10940X or similar). I know its not a fair fight. But its all things to be considered.


----------



## Ashermusic (Oct 7, 2020)

I am sure that is all true, but I had a budget of $2000 max and the only trash can in that price range was a 2013. I considered going that route, but knowing Apple, I worried that the OS after Big Sur will not support that old a model, and also, who knows when things will start to fail on a six or seven year old machine, which had quality control issues to begin with. My client Kevin Kiner had two of them and one or the other was always going back to Applecto be replaced.

So I went with the mini.


----------



## rickdeckard (Oct 8, 2020)

Thanks Jay


----------



## jamie8 (Oct 15, 2020)

ok , thanks everyone for your help and honest opinions!.i have just took the plunge and purchased a new 27 inch iMac 3.8 ghrz 8 core with 1 terabyte drive and 128 gigs of ram from owc, should keep me going for the next 3 years i hope and be more powerful than my 3ghrz 10 core trashcan with 64 gigs of ram . nervous but excited at the same time.


----------



## Ashermusic (Oct 15, 2020)

jamie8 said:


> ok , thanks everyone for your help and honest opinions!.i have just took the plunge and purchased a new 27 inch iMac 3.8 ghrz 8 core with 1 terabyte drive and 128 gigs of ram from owc, should keep me going for the next 3 years i hope and be more powerful than my 3ghrz 10 core trashcan with 64 gigs of ram . nervous but excited at the same time.



Great machine, I am jealous.


----------

