# Hi I just bought some AKG 702’s Need advice on Sonarworks.



## toomanynotes (Mar 27, 2020)

Hi headphone users..

Times are hard, I can’t afford Speakers yet.
I was wondering if there is anyone else who get by with headphones and reference tracks?
I’ve heard of a software called Sonarworks I need? Is there anything else i need?
Can someone be kind enough to share advice and tips to set me on the right path?


many thanks,

toomanynotes


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## Zx81 (Mar 27, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> Hi headphone users..
> 
> Times are hard, I can’t afford Speakers yet.
> I was wondering if there is anyone else who get by with headphones and reference tracks?
> ...



Hi mate - as it happens I recently finished a bunch of tracks for a library music label. For the most part they were mixed on AKG 702s using Sonarworks to help correct the response of the headphones .

I’m not sure I can provide much in the way of sage advice but here’s some comments / vague memories of the experience 

- my ears got tired real quick using headphones . Keep the volume low whenever possible. Take regular breaks and rest your ears

-pick a handful of reference tracks and learn them inside out. Use them frequently - compare your track with the references on a regular basis.

-check your mixes out on your phone / car / hifi . I noticed that that I was cutting way too much bass out of my mixes. I can only guess that this was a subconscious move of my part as my ears started getting tired during the day.

- send your mixes to a colleague or friend and ask for brutal feedback. I have a writing partner who is a far more experienced mix engineer . He was suitably brutal about my mixes - but it helped a lot in the end 

- the sonarworks software whilst not essential is very useful. I’ve used it now for around 18 months and would not try to mix for label without it.

- take regular breaks (repeated for emphasis ) - IMHO it really is the most important of these points

Let me know if you want any more specific advice.

cheers
Dave


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## jcrosby (Mar 27, 2020)

I use SW with my cans. Makes a big difference as it reduces all of the harshness and fatigue cans usually cuase... (The first few times you AB it'll freak you out, I've used it with three pairs of phones and it's never subtle.) If you eventually do upgrade to the full version it'll also bring your speakers much closer to the sound of your cans... Better translation...

One thing I personally do is use SW in tandem with _Can Opener._ If find The crossfeed algorithm really helps me judge width with significantly better results... Something I've always disliked about mixing in phones... Not mandatory, but definitely useful...


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## toomanynotes (Mar 27, 2020)

Hi Dave and Jcrosby,
Thanks for taking the time to help, this is very useful to know!
Maybe I can stretch to some Presonus Eris 3.5 monitors if it makes life easier on the ears.
My music will be orchestral.
Sorry How do I choose reference track and to know it inside out? what does it mean to know a piece of music inside out?..in context to helping a mix In headphones? 

I’ll also check out can opener, I was wondering how to figure out the 3D spaces I’m missing with monitors.
cheers


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## Zx81 (Mar 27, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> Hi Dave and Jcrosby,
> Thanks for taking the time to help, this is very useful to know!
> Maybe I can stretch to some Presonus Eris 3.5 monitors if it makes life easier on the ears.
> My music will be orchestral.
> ...



hi ya -

regarding reference tracks - IMHO knowing the music is not important - it’s more about learning how the instruments are sitting in the mix . By that I mean a) their relative volumes and panning b) what part of the frequency spectrum the occupy and c) how they interact.

For the project I just completed I had two genres - emotional / reflective piano style and ‘US crime drama (CSI style)’

I used a couple of tracks off The Blue Notebooks (max richter) for the piano tracks and some off the Daft punk Tron soundtrack for the ‘CSI style’. It wasn’t a very scientific choice - they just sprang to mind as nice tracks in a style I was emulating and they were recorded and mixed well (IMHO).

again, sorry I can’t offer any definitive advice but hope this helps a bit.

D


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## Fab (Mar 27, 2020)

Sonarworks is a room correction tool, it's most useful in my opinion for monitoring setups and you need a special microphone to measure the room (doesn't have to be the sonarworks one).

There are other companies doing similar things for room correction, with ikmultimedia being the most recent 'all in one kit' I can think of right now.

I have mixed only on headphones using the sonarworks software (though I also owned the full version with mic and my own monitor set up).

I think it* isn't* essential but rather it's a 'nice to have' thing when you have spare cash.

If you are mixing on headphones only though, remember to take breaks. *It's really important!* Not just for your mixes but for your ears also.

I would get some 2nd hand budget monitors, loads of them are 'good enough' and are under £200. I think you want to break up the 'headphones only' approach, not just for reference tracks but in general.

Disclosure: I hate headphones...

Fab


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## pmcrockett (Mar 27, 2020)

I've never used CanOpener, but I have used Ircam HEar, Waves Nx, and Waves Studio 3, all of which do crosstalk/room modeling. Of the three, I like Studio 3 the most, but it's all extremely subjective and you may not like any of them.

Also, if you're not already aware, K 702's have an extremely long burn-in period (like 100+ hours) before they sound how they're supposed to. I left mine playing music overnight for about a week when I first got them.


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## toomanynotes (Mar 27, 2020)

Ok guys this is brilliant, i understand the references now.
I hear about the ‘burning in’ thing, but read the other day that it was all in people’s heads (placebo) regarding the change in sound. Lol...I guess it won’t hurt to have them played in.
Regarding software i will check em out...maybe i’m not quite giving my ears the justice and trust, but good to know of other composer‘s opinions.
Bloody hell may have to get some monitors...💩


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## onebitboy (Mar 27, 2020)

pmcrockett said:


> Also, if you're not already aware, K 702's have an extremely long burn-in period (like 100+ hours)


Burn-in with headphones is placebo. The only "burn-in" actually happening is your hearing getting used to new headphones.


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## GtrString (Mar 27, 2020)

Most important is to learn your headphones, like you would learn your speakers. After a while doing projects you will be confident mixing to the representation they give you. AKG 701/702 are pretty flat to begin with.


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## toomanynotes (Mar 28, 2020)

Thanks fellas


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## toomanynotes (Mar 28, 2020)

the waves plugin is 75% off at $50...is it always this price or is this a great deal? Thanks


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## pmcrockett (Mar 28, 2020)

Waves has sales constantly, so never buy anything from them at full price. If you don't buy the plugin now, it'll be the same price or lower in some future sale.


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## nilblo (Mar 28, 2020)

AKG 240K Studio + Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 100 (USB to Digital Audio headphone amp.) + Sonarworks.. I´m pleased with this setup, fits my needs and my thin wallet.. Helps me balance the voicing and instrumentation when composing plus I can wear these phones for hours.


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## toomanynotes (Mar 29, 2020)

I happen to have a FiiO K1, so that will have to do for my AKG 702’s!
Though i need some closed cans for recording too.


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## Thundercat (Mar 29, 2020)

I just picked up some Sennheiser HD6XX headphones from Massdrop for less than 2 c notes. Still waiting for them to arrive but heackuva deal. FYI these are Sennheiser HD 650s with slightly different name and color.


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 30, 2020)

The AKG 702 is an open headphone that is very comfortable to wear. 
It also has a very analytical sound. 
*However, it tends to be rather bright in sound and a bit too little in bass.* 
--> So when you make mixes with the 702, they tend to sound a bit too dark later on other systems - at least in the treble range. 
If you don't have another listening opportunity, *I highly recommend Reference 4*, because the software corrects the typical characteristic curve so that the AKG 702 sounds more neutral (linear). It retains its analytical sound, of course. This works very well. Both my headphones sound nearly the same (HD650 / AKG702), which is not the case without Reference 4.

Additionally
Also make sure that your headphone amplifier has the necessary quality.

Beat


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