# Celli divisi playing two different articulations



## mgaewsj (May 3, 2022)

Is it acceptable (allowed) in a classical orchestral music context to split a 8 celli section in two and have 4 celli play legato and 4 celli play pizzicato? (just for a 20 seconds passage)


----------



## Heinigoldstein (May 3, 2022)

Well, if it sounds good, it‘s allowed, we live in the 21st century 

Stravinskys Firebird starts with legato basses doubled by a few pizz basses by the way.


----------



## muk (May 3, 2022)

It's absolutely acceptable, and quite common. So no problem there.


----------



## mgaewsj (May 4, 2022)

Heinigoldstein said:


> Stravinskys Firebird starts with legato basses doubled by a few pizz basses by the way.


indeed!

interestingly the score does not include a "divisi" keyword but it just uses two different staffs

EDIT: well they are playing the same notes so he *must *use two different staffs


----------



## Daryl (May 4, 2022)

mgaewsj said:


> indeed!
> 
> interestingly the score does not include a "divisi" keyword but it just uses two different staffs


Strictly speaking it's not divisi, as the pizz. is played by two soloists, but I take the point.


----------



## R.G. (May 4, 2022)

mgaewsj said:


> interestingly the score does not include a "divisi" keyword but it just uses two different staffs
> 
> EDIT: well they are playing the same notes so he *must *use two different staffs


Stravinsky's _complimentary divisi_ could've been notated on one staff with opposing stems. Or, if not for the bowing slurs, something like the following example, except with the appropriate divisi instructions (desk 1 = pizz/p, the remainder = arco/con sord/pp), and slurs on the beams of the down stems. Depending on other local notation factors, the desk 1 instruction might be placed above the stave and the other placed below the stave.






Composers could learn a few things from *conductors who have the right mindset*. Some conductors specify complementary divisi to secure the necessary effect that is not coming off in the rehearsal. Here's one from the Bruckner 7(IV), where the required clarity is provided by the divisi bowing right at the climax of the symphony.






Or when they can't get the necessary definition from a slurred phrase, they'll have the inside players of each desk play a _legato détaché_.

Staggered slurred bowing can provide just the opposite. Of course, Stokowski's insistence on _free bowing_ is the ultimate staggered bowing.

You can prescribe divisi fingering for a critical exposed passage to minimize a jarring color shift, but you shouldn't attempt it unless you're a string player or can consult with one of adequate caliber.

Lots of possibilities for complementary divisi, some for creative effect, and some to avoid an unintended one. And you can fine-tune it like Stravinsky did in the example above, by allocating an uneven number of players or desks to each part.


----------



## robgb (May 4, 2022)

mgaewsj said:


> Is it acceptable (allowed) in a classical orchestral music context to split a 8 celli section in two and have 4 celli play legato and 4 celli play pizzicato? (just for a 20 seconds passage)


ANYTHING that sounds good is fine. Don't worry about "rules" unless those rules actually contribute to a great sound. But feel free to break them, too.


----------



## mgaewsj (May 5, 2022)

R.G. said:


> Stravinsky's _complimentary divisi_ could've been notated on one staff with opposing stems. Or, if not for the bowing slurs, something like the following example, except with the appropriate divisi instructions (desk 1 = pizz/p, the remainder = arco/con sord/pp), and slurs on the beams of the down stems. Depending on other local notation factors, the desk 1 instruction might be placed above the stave and the other placed below the stave.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wow, thanks

TBH I am not sure to understand the Divisi thing in Bruckner's score 🤔


----------



## sinkd (May 5, 2022)

mgaewsj said:


> wow, thanks
> 
> TBH I am not sure to understand the Divisi thing in Bruckner's score 🤔


Where it says DIV., half of the section plays the tremolos, the other half plays the bowings below the notes (non trem) to make sure the eighth note line comes out. I think I have that right.


----------



## mgaewsj (May 5, 2022)

sinkd said:


> Where it says DIV., half of the section plays the tremolos, the other half plays the bowings below the notes (non trem) to make sure the eighth note line comes out. I think I have that right.


ok, got it!


----------

