# Mixing Felt Pianos?



## Dan Light (Feb 10, 2020)

Wondering if anybody has any pro tips for mixing felt pianos into tracks? I find that specifically felt ones have a lot of low/mid fuzziness that in isolation sounds nice, but in the context of a larger arrangement causes a lack of clarity. I like to use the Spitfire Olafur Arnalds a lot for reference. Cutting lows makes the piano sound thin...


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## pulsedownloader (Feb 10, 2020)

Stack them with another 1 or 2 pianos


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## CGR (Feb 10, 2020)

A very subtle amount of a layered 2nd piano with a short, percussive hammer attack, or even a soft dulcimer, will give some definition without taking away the character.


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## ryst (Feb 12, 2020)

Dan Light said:


> Wondering if anybody has any pro tips for mixing felt pianos into tracks? I find that specifically felt ones have a lot of low/mid fuzziness that in isolation sounds nice, but in the context of a larger arrangement causes a lack of clarity. I like to use the Spitfire Olafur Arnalds a lot for reference. Cutting lows makes the piano sound thin...



I generally don't like to use felt pianos unless it's one of the main instruments of a track. With a busy mix, the first thing I'd do is try replacing the piano with something that will stick out a little better (if that's what's needed). Did you write the track you're mixing or is this a mix for someone else?


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## Dan Light (Feb 12, 2020)

ryst said:


> I generally don't like to use felt pianos unless it's one of the main instruments of a track. With a busy mix, the first thing I'd do is try replacing the piano with something that will stick out a little better (if that's what's needed). Did you write the track you're mixing or is this a mix for someone else?



It's sort of a general question...I find myself often writing tracks with felt pianos and struggle with getting them to sit right. Even sometimes if it's something as simple as just a pad + piano, I get a lot of low/mid frequency build up.


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## AlexRuger (Feb 12, 2020)

I find that lightly carving out the mids/low mids helps to alleviate some of the boominess that can build up when using them with a lot of reverb (which, most of the time, we probably are).

I also give it a hilariously huge high shelf, starting pretty low, around 2-4k, depending on the needs of the mix. The EQ looks all wrong, but I love bringing out the otherwise quiet hammer sounds.


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## Paul Cardon (Feb 12, 2020)

AlexRuger said:


> I find that lightly carving out the mids/low mids helps to alleviate some of the boominess that can build up when using them with a lot of reverb (which, most of the time, we probably are).
> 
> I also give it a hilariously huge high shelf, starting pretty low, around 2-4k, depending on the needs of the mix. The EQ looks all wrong, but I love bringing out the otherwise quiet hammer sounds.


I kind of want to focus on that last sentence. "The EQ looks all wrong". NEVER worry about an EQ looking wrong. Some of my favorite media music composers/mixers do some of the craziest EQ curves I've ever seen in their EQs, and because of that, I've really broken past the fear of a "bad looking" EQ.

Go nuts with your EQs if something needs it.

In the case of the OP, you shouldn't feel any shame in tackling it with big +/- 10dB cuts and boosts if that's what it truly needs. Automating an EQ band's gain is also super fine. You want all that body and warmth in the intro when it's just felt piano but you need to automate it out once the track gets busy? Go for it.


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## CGR (Feb 12, 2020)

Paul Cardon said:


> I kind of want to focus on that last sentence. "The EQ looks all wrong". NEVER worry about an EQ looking wrong. Some of my favorite media music composers/mixers do some of the craziest EQ curves I've ever seen in their EQs, and because of that, I've really broken past the fear of a "bad looking" EQ.
> 
> Go nuts with your EQs if something needs it.
> 
> In the case of the OP, you shouldn't feel any shame in tackling it with big +/- 10dB cuts and boosts if that's what it truly needs. Automating an EQ band's gain is also super fine. You want all that body and warmth in the intro when it's just felt piano but you need to automate it out once the track gets busy? Go for it.


Great advice - mixing/engineering with your ears, not your eyes.


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## AlexRuger (Feb 12, 2020)

Paul Cardon said:


> I kind of want to focus on that last sentence. "The EQ looks all wrong". NEVER worry about an EQ looking wrong. Some of my favorite media music composers/mixers do some of the craziest EQ curves I've ever seen in their EQs, and because of that, I've really broken past the fear of a "bad looking" EQ.
> 
> Go nuts with your EQs if something needs it.
> 
> In the case of the OP, you shouldn't feel any shame in tackling it with big +/- 10dB cuts and boosts if that's what it truly needs. Automating an EQ band's gain is also super fine. You want all that body and warmth in the intro when it's just felt piano but you need to automate it out once the track gets busy? Go for it.



Oh, totally. I just think it’s hilarious, because the sound is still this relatively warm, soft thing, and then if you open up the EQ you go .


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## Paul Cardon (Feb 12, 2020)

AlexRuger said:


> Oh, totally. I just think it’s hilarious, because the sound is still this relatively warm, soft thing, and then if you open up the EQ you go .


Oh dude yeah, cranking that high shelf as high as it will go to get the brushing of the pads on the strings is A+ felt piano strategy (especially if you love the sound of mic hiss)


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## SupremeFist (Feb 12, 2020)

Do other people also make these kinds of EQ cuts with regular non-felt pianos? Most of my piano libraries seem to have some notes that are overly resonant/rumbly in a passage and I've started notching them out to smooth out the sound even in a solo context. Or am I going insane?


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## cloudbuster (Feb 14, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Do other people also make these kinds of EQ cuts with regular non-felt pianos? Most of my piano libraries seem to have some notes that are overly resonant/rumbly in a passage and I've started notching them out to smooth out the sound even in a solo context. Or am I going insane?


I don't think so. I'm using all sorts of EQs pretty much on every track/instrument. With regards to pianos more often than not I'm using two EQs, the second one being a dynamic EQ, like Waves F6 or the one in izotope's Neutron + a transient shaper to get something pretty close to a felt piano.


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## Joël Dollié (Feb 14, 2020)

Few tips:

1: Don't use them in a busy part or layer them with something brighter.
2: embrace the warmth, they're kind of band passed feeling, but if you boost the high mids it won't sound good. Not better than a normal piano.
3: Don't boost too much highs or you might have some noisy brushy noise poke through the mix and it could sound weird.
4: You can reshape the mid range if it's a bit muddy. There's often slight buildups at 500 or so. Cutting there can sound nice as it rebalances the low mid and bass energy and honky energy which can be sometimes too much in comparison to the bass energy.
5: the Gullfoss plugin (google it), helps a ton with point number 4. A normal dynamic EQ can help too if you have specific resonant notes.


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## Bluemount Score (Feb 14, 2020)

Joël Dollié said:


> 5: the Gullfoss plugin (google it), helps a ton with point number 4. A normal dynamic EQ can help too if you have specific resonant notes.


I would be interested to see how you use Gullfoss (got it as well). There are only few parameters to change, but as always things can be overdone quickly and it's maybe even worse than before.
Especially gotta watch the high end, I often feel like Gullfoss likes to boost too much 10k+ for orchestral tracks if not used carefully (reducing brightness generally helps).


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## ThomasNL (Feb 14, 2020)

By the way, now that we are on the topic of felt piano's. The Olafur Arnalds one is VERY recognizable, especially when the space echo is turned on. I once came across a piano album by someone that was all done on that piano lol. Always try to mix it in your own way, add your own reverb/ambience and maybe layer it with something else.

My dream is to own my own felt piano and never having to use a plugin for that ever again 

EDIT: Getting the piano won't be the biggest issue, getting microphones that do the piano justice is, hehe


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## SupremeFist (Feb 14, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> I would be interested to see how you use Gullfoss (got it as well). There are only few parameters to change, but as always things can be overdone quickly and it's maybe even worse than before.
> Especially gotta watch the high end, I often feel like Gullfoss likes to boost too much 10k+ for orchestral tracks if not used carefully (reducing brightness generally helps).


I'm demoing Gullfoss for my piano tracks atm and I'm finding that literally just 1% of "tame", with a bit of negative bias, adds some really nice clarity and air without exactly brightening.


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## SupremeFist (Feb 14, 2020)

cloudbuster said:


> I don't think so. I'm using all sorts of EQs pretty much on every track/instrument. With regards to pianos more often than not I'm using two EQs, the second one being a dynamic EQ, like Waves F6 or the one in izotope's Neutron + a transient shaper to get something pretty close to a felt piano.


Right, I'm using a static EQ plus Soothe2!


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## Bluemount Score (Feb 14, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I'm demoing Gullfoss for my piano tracks atm and I'm finding that literally just 1% of "tame", with a bit of negative bias, adds some really nice clarity and air without exactly brightening.


1%? You hear 1% of Gullfoss Tame? Maybe my young ears aren't that great after all.


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## SupremeFist (Feb 14, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> 1%? You hear 1% of Gullfoss Tame? Maybe my young ears aren't that great after all.


Ha, yes I do but maybe it has a more noticeable effect on sparser material? I've never tried it on a big orchestral or other mix....


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## Joël Dollié (Feb 17, 2020)

You don't need to do as much Gullfoss as you think. I sometimes just do 5% on masters. 1% is really little though.


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## Yellow Studio (Feb 18, 2020)

The Coles mics in individual mics and mix is a bit less muddy in Spitfire Olafur Arnalds


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## Jerry Growl (Feb 22, 2020)

Depends on the context, of course. Don't cut too much in low mids. Maybe a bit of dynamic eq in that region will do. The essence of the instrument is in the low mid region. Sounding all mellow was the point in the first place. If not we would not bother to put a felt cloth on the strings.

Ducking ahead might work nice to get the attack of the felt cut through layers of strings or pads. 

Usually the felt piano moment in a song or a composition is a break, or silent part, so it might be an idea to enhance the general contrast of that part of the song by making everything else temporarily darker (so you adapt the context to the felt piano and not the other way round)...


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