# Switch from Ableton to Cubase?



## stanthemanNL (May 2, 2021)

Hello everyone! I bought Ableton to make techno music. But then I discovered SA libraries and now I’m only making orchestral music. I’m thinking about switching from Ableton to Cubase since pianoroll midi editing and orchestral programming looks easier with Cubase. Therefore I was wondering if other people have experience with switching from Ableton to Cubase. Why did you switch? Is it worth it to switch DAW or is it not the DAW but my lack of skills that makes Ableton nog enjoyable to work with?

And If I would switch, would you recommend the Pro version or is Artist fine as well?


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## jcrosby (May 2, 2021)

With a little luck Daniel James will chime in... He used Live for quite a while and has been working in Cubase for a number of years now... Doesn't seem like he misses Live that much...

I personally use Logic and Live. I use Live for mostly non-orchestral stuff, orchestral stuff in Live just doesn't work for me though. Live's MIDI editor is just way to primitive when I'm working with tons of CCs and Logic's always let you see multiple midi channels at the same time, in a way more powerful way... 

Live has a fast workflow I still like though for certain things... It does have a ton of pitfalls as well though... No bounce in place, rendering and freezing take forever due to its outdated code... Velocity editing isn't particularly great if you need to get nuanced, and it lacks a midi event editor, something Logic and Cubase both have...

Lately I've beeb using Live in rewire mode. Live's audio editing is efficient and it's rhythmic stretching algorithm is still top notch. The drag and drop approach to sampling I still find faster in Live... And I kind of love being able to have two simultaneous approaches - Logic working in linear time, Live working in looped/non-linear time. (This is actually possible in Logic now, but Live still does this better)... Definitely something worth exploring if you decide to move to Cubase, or another DAW...


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## doctoremmet (May 2, 2021)

I use both. Cubase Pro 11 for orchestral music, and Ableton Live Suite 11 is my main DAW (because I tend to make other music more often). Cubase has indeed way more efficient options to quickly edit MIDI, expression lanes etcetera. Artist version has all you need IIRC, at least if you’re main interest is the pianoroll options. I prefer Live’s sampler, time stretching and Max for Life stuff for almost anything else. But Cubase is a great environment, I have to say.


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## Michael Antrum (May 2, 2021)

The Artist version doesn't have Expression Maps, which I find very useful for writing orchestral music.

Also Time Warp, VCA faders are only in Pro too......


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## Daniel James (May 2, 2021)

stanthemanNL said:


> Hello everyone! I bought Ableton to make techno music. But then I discovered SA libraries and now I’m only making orchestral music. I’m thinking about switching from Ableton to Cubase since pianoroll midi editing and orchestral programming looks easier with Cubase. Therefore I was wondering if other people have experience with switching from Ableton to Cubase. Why did you switch? Is it worth it to switch DAW or is it not the DAW but my lack of skills that makes Ableton nog enjoyable to work with?
> 
> And If I would switch, would you recommend the Pro version or is Artist fine as well?


Hey I made that move a while back. I do miss how well Live syncs and stretches audio. But for the amount of midi work I do, cubase just has more of the features I need.



-DJ


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## stanthemanNL (May 4, 2021)

Thanks for your answers guys! I'm going for the 30 day trial and see for myself. Probably will start with the artist version (nice educational discount) and upgrade to pro later.

Once again, thanks a lot. You really helped me


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## BabaGhanoushSpecial (May 4, 2021)

stanthemanNL said:


> Thanks for your answers guys! I'm going for the 30 day trial and see for myself. Probably will start with the artist version (nice educational discount) and upgrade to pro later.
> 
> Once again, thanks a lot. You really helped me


Definitely go for the trial but also don’t sleep on Studio One. The new updates have been fantastic, they’ve added more orchestral focused pieces (see the articulation maps they just came out with), and overall it’s a great middle ground between Live and Cubase (from my limited experience with the Cubase trial). Granted I’m still very much a beginner, especially in comparison to Daniel James, so take everything with a big grain of salt there. However I really love what Presonus is doing and highly recommend checking out their trial as well!

I’m not sure if Daniel has tried it but his comparison would be way more useful than mine


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## PaulieDC (May 4, 2021)

I went from Studio One 4 to Cubase 10 (now 11) Pro and for Orchestral I'm totally happy. I will say that Studio One 5.2 has come of age for the most part. So I run that on my laptop for my own fun and sketching and mobile tracking, and keep Cubase on my tower. Cubase is so vast and has so much from 30 years of development, it's truly a one-stop shopping, but you have to be Ok with that much STUFF in a DAW. As a software developer for over 20 years I'm totally fine with all the hidden caves in Cubase.

The latest and greatest feature in Cubase as a mix engineer is Control Room. Where has this been al my life! I can put SonarWorks in there and never ever make a boo boo and send a client something where I forgot to remove it. Easy peazy A/B checking, switch to mono and it can be automated. LOVE IT. And if someone else is mastering the project, I can put all mixbuss effects in Control Room so I hear the effect but it stays clear of the output so the mastering engineer gets just the mix. Doesn't sound like a dealbreaker, but wait until you send your first paid project to a client and forget to remove the mixbuss plugins that shouldn't be there, and it sounds horrid on their end.

I ran Studio one 3 and 4 for several years, now I've used Cubase for 2 years and I'm totally committed to Cubase pro as my DAW. Check that box off, other mountains to climb! OH, the reason: I run Windows, not a Mac. I still believe that Cubase and Studio One are great choices for the Windows platform. If I were doing rock/pop/EDM, I'd be Studio One all the way. For MIDI Orchestration, Cubase. The support for Cubase all over YouTube University is nuts, you almost never need to pay for training. Ba Da Bing.


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## Crossroads (May 5, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I went from Studio One 4 to Cubase 10 (now 11) Pro and for Orchestral I'm totally happy. I will say that Studio One 5.2 has come of age for the most part. So I run that on my laptop for my own fun and sketching and mobile tracking, and keep Cubase on my tower. Cubase is so vast and has so much from 30 years of development, it's truly a one-stop shopping, but you have to be Ok with that much STUFF in a DAW. As a software developer for over 20 years I'm totally fine with all the hidden caves in Cubase.
> 
> The latest and greatest feature in Cubase as a mix engineer is Control Room. Where has this been al my life! I can put SonarWorks in there and never ever make a boo boo and send a client something where I forgot to remove it. Easy peazy A/B checking, switch to mono and it can be automated. LOVE IT. And if someone else is mastering the project, I can put all mixbuss effects in Control Room so I hear the effect but it stays clear of the output so the mastering engineer gets just the mix. Doesn't sound like a dealbreaker, but wait until you send your first paid project to a client and forget to remove the mixbuss plugins that shouldn't be there, and it sounds horrid on their end.
> 
> I ran Studio one 3 and 4 for several years, now I've used Cubase for 2 years and I'm totally committed to Cubase pro as my DAW. Check that box off, other mountains to climb! OH, the reason: I run Windows, not a Mac. I still believe that Cubase and Studio One are great choices for the Windows platform. If I were doing rock/pop/EDM, I'd be Studio One all the way. For MIDI Orchestration, Cubase. The support for Cubase all over YouTube University is nuts, you almost never need to pay for training. Ba Da Bing.


I have to add, by adding the Absolute 4 Collection and Backbone, together with Unfiltered Audio Triad and Unify, I tried to make Cubase into the ultimate sound design machine. Turns out, I also accidentally created the ultimate EDM machine with that, depending on how I use those plugins


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## doctoremmet (May 5, 2021)

+1 for TRIAD. And anything UA make. Great developer really, producing exquisite effects (and synth).


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## Daniel James (May 8, 2021)

BabaGhanoushSpecial said:


> Definitely go for the trial but also don’t sleep on Studio One. The new updates have been fantastic, they’ve added more orchestral focused pieces (see the articulation maps they just came out with), and overall it’s a great middle ground between Live and Cubase (from my limited experience with the Cubase trial). Granted I’m still very much a beginner, especially in comparison to Daniel James, so take everything with a big grain of salt there. However I really love what Presonus is doing and highly recommend checking out their trial as well!
> 
> I’m not sure if Daniel has tried it but his comparison would be way more useful than mine


I actually havn't tried it yet but I think @Waywyn is a wizard with it! maybe he can chime in. 

-DJ


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## Dr.Quest (May 8, 2021)

I use both. I added Cubase this year - did the 30 day trial of Nuendo and Cubase - I like the way both handle film projects, so with the crossgrade from DP9 Cubase was affordable. Not regretting having it.


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## Dr.Quest (May 8, 2021)

3DC said:


> I am also considering a switch to Cubase so two newbie questions if I may:
> 
> I wonder when or if Cubase goes ever on sale? Any "usual" spring sales?
> How good or usable is Absolute 4 compared to Komplete 13, Studio 3 Max?


Not sure about sales but they do offer a crossgrade price if you have any of these ---

Ableton Live 8 or higher (Standard and Suite / excl. Intro)
Bitwig Studio 1 or higher
Apple Logic 9 or higher
Avid Pro Tools 9 or higher incl. subscriptions (Pro Tools and Pro Tools HD / excl. First)
Cakewalk Sonar X2 or higher (Platinum and Professional / excl. Artist and Cakewalk by Bandlab)
Imageline FL Studio 11 or higher (Signature and Producer / excl. Fruity)
MOTU Digital Performer 7 or higher
Presonus Studio One (Professional / excl. Prime and Artist)
Propellerheads Reason 6 or higher
Cockos Reaper (Commercial license only / excl. discounted license)
Magix Samplitude Pro X 1 or higher (excl. Music Studio)
Magix Sequoia 9 or higher


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## Dr.Quest (May 9, 2021)

3DC said:


> Yeah I already know this but Studio One Pro has additional flash sale even on its crossgrade. Right now its only 217 EUR. With Presonus Notion 6 for 111 EUR I would pay only 328 EUR for both. Still cheaper then regular price of S1 Pro.
> Cubase Crossgrade + Absolute 4 would cost me 795 EUR. Not really a great deal at the moment. Please don't roll your eyes I learned from you guys to squeeze the minimal possible price.


Studio One 5 is a good DAW. I used it up to version 3 and got lots of use for it. I was temped to go to v5 of S1 instead of Cubase but I really liked the workflow of Cubase for Film. S1 was a little behind although I've heard they are catching up. Good choice for the Dollar!


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## doctoremmet (May 9, 2021)

3DC said:


> I wonder when or if Cubase goes ever on sale?


Absolutely. I got Cubase last year for a good sale price. IIRC some time during summer. There were many active threads about that topic on here around that time too


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## doctoremmet (May 9, 2021)

Best time to buy Cubase?


So I just used up my 30 day trial of Cubase and frankly I'm sold. I've been using DP9 for years but I find Cubase's interface much more intuitive and easier to look at . Cubase is expensive, however, so I'm just wondering if anyone knows when the next sale might be, or if I should just wait...




vi-control.net


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## Markrs (May 9, 2021)

Towards the end of last year they did a "Buy Artist version, get free upgrade to Pro" deal, which is what I went for. Got Cubase Pro 10.5 for £225 (including VAT)


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## fourier (May 9, 2021)

I'm still not sold on a move back to Cubase. I started of with Cubase in 95' and moved to Ableton around 2005 and I feel very comfortable with it. As I will have much more time on my hands in the fall, I'd consider moving back, but I am currently not sure where Cubase currently fundamentally outshine Ableton? I also feel like Ableton 10 and 11 have added features that move Ableton closer to Cubase.

I'm a huge fan of both DAW's, so I'm just curious to hear current pro's and con's debated here.


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## LudovicVDP (May 9, 2021)

For me the change was very useful but it's probably the way that I approached both DAW that made it so more than the DAW themselves.

I started with Ableton. When I used to be a DJ, the session view was my friend. Loops, loops and loops again. Effects, assigned to external contollers, and a bit of sound design. I could (too) easily get lost with powerful 4 bars loops and a filter, producing half tracks to play on saturday night.

Then, years later, I used it again, live, with a pop/rock cover band as a keyboard player. With a foot controller, I could switch from scene to scene and trigger samples, send CC to my synth and switch between virtual instruments and effects (assigned to a pedal), keeping both my hands on the keyboards. Super easy and flexible.

But when it comes to composing, I had never been able to compose a real track from beginning to end. I mostly got stuck with loops... Which could be ok for techno and stuff... But not when I wanted to go more orchestral.

Going Cubase got me out of the session view and made me approach things differently, which was the kick I needed. I would probably have been able to do what I do now with Ableton... But I guess I needed that change to evolve... 

I should add that Ableton at that time couldn't support video... So scoring a scene (which I also wanted to to) was tricky. I think Ableton catched up on that aspect with the last version though, but I'm putting things in their context. 

Anyway... I'm not using Ableton at all anymore now...


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## Braveheart (May 9, 2021)

I love Studio One, plenty of regular improvements, great workflow.


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## Denkii (May 11, 2021)

I still use live if I just want to have fun.
If I need to get stuff done, I use something else.
Went from S1 (v3) to Cubase Pro and recently back to S1 (v5). I prefer working in S1 over Cubase by a lot. The only thing I regularly find annoying is how clunky it is to set up and work with video in S1 compared to Cubase.
Also: If you need to work in 5.1 or more, stay away from S1. 

Other than that: I love it and will try to stick with it as long as possible. They update it frequently, most things are easily accessible and layed out in an easy way (looking at you Cubase), the hardware/software with integration with Presonus controllers is top notch.

In the end, it's always the same: You need to get used to whatever you end up with. They all do 98 % of the same things, just in a different way. Cubase probably has the other 2 % over the rest...it is just not for me.


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## darkogav (May 11, 2021)

stanthemanNL said:


> Hello everyone! I bought Ableton to make techno music. But then I discovered SA libraries and now I’m only making orchestral music. I’m thinking about switching from Ableton to Cubase since pianoroll midi editing and orchestral programming looks easier with Cubase. Therefore I was wondering if other people have experience with switching from Ableton to Cubase. Why did you switch? Is it worth it to switch DAW or is it not the DAW but my lack of skills that makes Ableton nog enjoyable to work with?
> 
> And If I would switch, would you recommend the Pro version or is Artist fine as well?


A DAW is just a DAW. I see a fellow on YouTube making orchestral scores in FL Studio. You only need to worry about DAWs if you are exchanging projects and most audio post is ProTools anyways.

If you switch to Cubase, you need Pro[1]. I would save my money and keep using Ableton and just wait. Steinberg/Yamaha are in the process of re-vamping their licensing scheme.

[1] https://new.steinberg.net/cubase/compare-editions/


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## Leo Brennauer (May 11, 2021)

darkogav said:


> A DAW is just a DAW. I see a fellow on YouTube making orchestral scores in FL Studio. You only need to worry about DAWs if you are exchanging projects and most audio post is ProTools anyways.
> 
> If you switch to Cubase, you need Pro[1]. I would save my money and keep using Ableton and just wait. Steinberg/Yamaha are in the process of re-vamping their licensing scheme.
> 
> [1] https://new.steinberg.net/cubase/compare-editions/


Do you have any source for this revamping romour? I’m not finding any information. Or do I just miss sth


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## darkogav (May 11, 2021)

Leo Brennauer said:


> Do you have any source for this revamping romour? I’m not finding any information. Or do I just miss sth


I think its public. Lots of posts. I even saw them discuss it on Facebook. I believe the plan is to phase out the dongle. So wait a bit and save $50 if you won't need one.


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## Leo Brennauer (May 11, 2021)

darkogav said:


> I think its public. Lots of posts. I even saw them discuss it on Facebook. I believe the plan is to phase out the dongle. So wait a bit and save $50 if you won't need one.


Ah just saw it. Thanks!


_Hello all,

For many of you this is the announcement you have been waiting for. While we put our heart and soul into developing ground-breaking products in your best interests, we haven’t accomplished our promise to provide you with the user experience you deserve in every part of Steinberg’s technologies in recent time. 


We have been listening to your feedback for years, but significant changes need time, and we had to carefully lay out our vision for the future. But now the time has come to put our approach to license management at the center of our attention. We have decided to adopt a new license management technology that everyone will benefit from to prepare for coming requirements.

An authorization system shouldn’t get in your way, but support you in the onboarding process. Anti-piracy protection technology shouldn’t restrict you as the customer, but secure your investment. A license management shouldn’t stop you from using your products, but enable you to be creative, whenever and wherever you are.

At this point in time, all we can tell you is that everyone at Steinberg is strongly committed to providing you as soon as possible with a solution that offers more flexibility, more reliability and, of course, a seamless migration. It’s too early to announce details on the schedule or the new environment, but one thing is for sure: The future will be dongle-free.

The Steinberg Team_


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## Waywyn (May 12, 2021)

BabaGhanoushSpecial said:


> Definitely go for the trial but also don’t sleep on Studio One. The new updates have been fantastic, they’ve added more orchestral focused pieces (see the articulation maps they just came out with), and overall it’s a great middle ground between Live and Cubase (from my limited experience with the Cubase trial). Granted I’m still very much a beginner, especially in comparison to Daniel James, so take everything with a big grain of salt there. However I really love what Presonus is doing and highly recommend checking out their trial as well!
> 
> I’m not sure if Daniel has tried it but his comparison would be way more useful than mine


My two cents on this whole thing would be that if you don't care too much about advanced video features, don't need OSC and you are not using a touch screen controller for example, and don't use an orchestral template above 1000 tracks, I would strongly recommend Studio One. To me, it is one of the most intuitive DAWs out there, everything works with drag and drop and once these above-mentioned features are fixed I can't wait for the day to finally leave the Cubase world. I have been using it for 15 years and it is time they overhaul their core engine rather than building and building on top of it.


... and thanks for the mention @Daniel James


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## CATDAD (May 13, 2021)

Not Cubase, but I switched from Ableton to Studio One and have most of all enjoyed the UI for mixing. Routing is fairly intuitive (there is a learning curve coming from Ableton, but feels more flexible and logically laid out to me) and it seems really silly but I also didn't realize how much I disliked Ableton having its track headers on the right side. The session view was always a waste for me, and much prefer having a mixing console view to see all my chains at once. I also very much dislike Ableton's UI for its plugins due to their tiny space constraints, stuff I didn't know mattered to me when I started.

Like @Waywyn and @Denkii said above, Studio One is sleek but is fairly lacking in video features aside from some basic stuff (it can lay out a video track and export it at least) so if you have any intention of doing involved video syncing, be wary. (I think at this point it's more likely Studio One will add more video functions sooner than Cubase will overhaul decades of engine code though)

Something to keep in mind too is if you use a lot of Ableton's native plugins, make sure to checklist whether or not there are equivalents in whatever DAW you choose, and during a trial, keep track of which features you use and whether they are in the "Pro" version of the new DAW or not. If you work a lot with 3rd party plugins, you may only need what the "artist" versions offer for the most part.

I think Cubase and Studio One have full-featured 30 day trials so just try em out! 30 days is more than enough to overcome the very beginning learning curve and just take a look at what it feels like to do what you do in those environments.


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