# HZ Piano - no one talking about it?



## Vanni (Dec 11, 2015)

Dears,
i think just today HZ Piano was released. Any thoughts?

To me it's just astounding the size of the library...(200+ GB!!!). I use Pianoteq so a completely different concept, but curious as to read how this performs.

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/hans-zimmer-piano/


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## jneebz (Dec 11, 2015)

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-hans-zimmer-piano-released.50323/#post-3918853


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## Zhao Shen (Dec 11, 2015)

Sounds gorgeous and definitely on my wish list, but the price and size have appended it to the very bottom of that list.


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## Lassi Tani (Dec 11, 2015)

Sounds brilliant! Thinking of buying some strings first, thus no space on my SSDs :D. I wish they could have a Lite edition with just a few patches and a cheaper price, and a possibility to upgrade to the full version. The library size and amount of mics, different sounds and fx are overwhelming.


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## germancomponist (Dec 11, 2015)

Friends, there are two other threads about this piano, so, not no one is talking about it! -)


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## tack (Dec 11, 2015)

I don't think anyone will be really talking about it until late tonight or tomorrow (speaking from a timezone in the Americas). It's going to take the full day to download it.


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## Mystic (Dec 11, 2015)

Yah, I'm interested in the verdict first before I jump in. That said, I'm going to be trying to work my budget so that if it's as good as I think it will be, I can buy before the end of the intro price.


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## WindcryMusic (Dec 11, 2015)

tack said:


> I don't think anyone will be really talking about it until late tonight or tomorrow. It's going to take the full day to download it.



One day? With my DSL, by my calculations it would be more like 5 days of continuous downloading, which isn't really even possible as it would interfere with my use of the DSL for work since a weekend wouldn't be long enough. Hence it isn't on my list, even though it does sound quite nice.


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## tack (Dec 11, 2015)

DSL, ouch. I _could_ have the thing downloaded in under 2 hours if only Spitfire's CDN (AWS) was able to send as fast as I can receive. It is suspiciously even at around 55 Mbit/s so I suspect it's throttled (probably based on Spitfire's service plan).


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## WindcryMusic (Dec 11, 2015)

tack said:


> DSL, ouch. I _could_ have the thing downloaded in under 2 hours if only Spitfire's CDN (AWS) was able to send as fast as I can receive. It is suspiciously even at around 55 Mbit/s so I suspect it's throttled (probably based on Spitfire's service plan).



Geeze, now I'm depressed. 55 MBits, and you say for you that appears to be throttled ... when my DSL maxes out at about 1/10th of that speed. And that's the fastest Internet access option in my neighborhood. I need to move.


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## Cowtothesky (Dec 11, 2015)

On my list. From what I've heard, it sounds really good. I have lots and lots of pianos and still have a hard time finding the right one for certain projects. Hopefully, this will make that a little easier.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 11, 2015)

Never heard a sample library piano or played one either, that really does anything for me. They're all a bit plasticy. This one doesn't change any of that. And it's expensive for a virtual piano too. A real piano does not divorce the sound from the playing action and I think that's a big problem with all virtual pianos.
If I have a piano track that's worth doing well, I record it on a real piano.


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## germancomponist (Dec 11, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> Never heard a sample library piano or played one either, that really does anything for me. They're all a bit plasticy. This one doesn't change any of that. And it's expensive for a virtual piano too. A real piano does not divorce the sound from the playing action and I think that's a big problem with all virtual pianos.
> If I have a piano track that's worth dong well, I record it on a real piano.


Wow!
Can you please share a recording where you have played a piano?


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 11, 2015)

Of course I can Gunther.


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## germancomponist (Dec 11, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> Of course I can Gunther.


So where I can listen?


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 11, 2015)

I'm watching a 1965 episode of The Avengers right now called A Surfiet of H2O Gunther.


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## germancomponist (Dec 11, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> I'm watching a 1965 episode of The Avengers right now called A Surfiet of H2O Gunther.


You are a clown or what?


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## Walid F. (Dec 11, 2015)

germancomponist said:


> So where I can listen?





Baron Greuner said:


> I'm watching a 1965 episode of The Avengers right now called A Surfiet of H2O Gunther.



:D I don't follow. I also want to hear your piano recordings, Baron. 

W.


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## doctornine (Dec 11, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> I'm watching a 1965 episode of The Avengers right now called A Surfiet of H2O Gunther.



Now, were we talking Mrs Peel or Tara King ?


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 11, 2015)

Oh Mrs Peel naturally.



germancomponist said:


> You are a clown or what?



Hey Gunther! I'm not the one with the permid hair!


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 11, 2015)

Walid F. said:


> :D I don't follow. I also want to hear your piano recordings, Baron.
> 
> W.


You don't follow? Given a choice of Mrs Peel or putting up a piano track for Gunther? Go figure.


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 11, 2015)

Why would it matter if Baron likes or does not like the piano, it's one persons opinion. I know, as do most of you many accomplished pianists who quite like their virtual pianos and do a great job with them, nothing good will come out of asking Baron to stop watching The Avengers.


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## airflamesred (Dec 11, 2015)

200 gig? As a download, has not this been thought through.


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## Walid F. (Dec 11, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> You don't follow? Given a choice of Mrs Peel or putting up a piano track for Gunther? Go figure.



I have obviously not had the pleasure of Mrs Peel's vibrance.

W.


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## kitekrazy (Dec 11, 2015)

Overkill IMO.


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## feck (Dec 11, 2015)

airflamesred said:


> 200 gig? As a download, has not this been thought through.


Why do you say that? I think it's absolutely great that they do all downloads. I wish other companies would follow suit.


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## Rctec (Dec 11, 2015)

kitekrazy said:


> Overkill IMO.


I agree! Total overkill! ...That's why we did it...


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## Walid F. (Dec 11, 2015)

Rctec said:


> I agree! Total overkill! ...That's why we did it...


xD This guy. Was just what I said to a few fellow composers.

W.


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## stargazer (Dec 11, 2015)

Pedal down samples?


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## MrCambiata (Dec 12, 2015)

Sounds gorgeous. But I too would prefer to buy a lite version of it.


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## edhamilton (Dec 12, 2015)

Really don't care about the size of it.
I can't even stand thinking about all the piano libs I've bought, only to be disappointed once played in my room and in a mix.
And demo's just can't inform that decision enough. (I'd have saved a ton of money if they could).

Wish they would do a demo version - two low C's and one middle octave would tell me all I need to know and if it works in my rig/mix, I'd happily pay the price and buy an SSD just for it. But no way I'm taking a chance on yet another piano, and an expensive, storage hungry one at that.


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## stargazer (Dec 12, 2015)

edhamilton said:


> Really don't care about the size of it.
> I can't even stand thinking about all the piano libs I've bought, only to be disappointed once played in my room and in a mix.
> And demo's just can't inform that decision enough. (I'd have saved a ton of money if they could).
> 
> Wish they would do a demo version - two low C's and one middle octave would tell me all I need to know and if it works in my rig/mix, I'd happily pay the price and buy an SSD just for it.



+1


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## Alatar (Dec 12, 2015)

I see no mention of how many velocity layers they recorded.
What about sympathetic resonances and overtones? (Very important feature to me, which other libs have)
What about half pedalling and re-pedalling?
They do write that they have round-robin, which is interesting. Many other piano libs I tried do not have that.

All in all the HZP piano seems like a sound-engineering tool to me, but maybe not quite a "real" piano.


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## mickeyl (Dec 12, 2015)

I second the request for a light version. I'd be most satisfied with the usual CTAO tuple. That with a slightly lower price would be great.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 12, 2015)

Orcel said:


> The Garritan CFX is maybe the best choice to find the original feeling and sound of real Piano.



There's no question about the fact that a lot of composers (let's say in this instance, of piano music) have done really well with virtual pianos. In my case, my biggest paying track to date is a very fast, very difficult solo piano work that was done using a virtual piano and we decided to leave it that way for the publishers.

But you're never going to beat a real piano. Just as a small example, I was round an auction house viewing about 9 months ago and an upright Challen (quite modern and completely in tune and in great condition) was up for sale. So I sat down and played Lady Madonna and drew quite a crowd and a load of applause (I loved that bit a lot).
There's no way on earth you're going to get that _sound and level of feedback through your hands and brain_ from a virtual piano trust me. I don't care how good anyone thinks their weighted BS state of the art controller keyboard is.

Btw, the Challen made £90 at auction and was probably worth 20 times that if you're doing comparisons with virtual v. real pianos.

The 1st issue for most writers is getting a real piano and then having to jump through hoops in what could be quite a small recording area, getting it miced up etc etc.
The 2nd issue is their capability in actually playing it. With a virtual piano you can obviously iron out all the mistakes and timing problems.
The 3rd issue is the tuning.

If anyone has a really good piano track that they feel is really worthwhile getting it to sound good, I would send it to a company that does real piano playing and recording, or go into a recording studio and record it yourself.


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## lumcas (Dec 12, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> There's no question about the fact that a lot of composers (let's say in this instance, of piano music) have done really well with virtual pianos. In my case, my biggest paying track to date is a very fast, very difficult solo piano work that was done using a virtual piano and we decided to leave it that way for the publishers.
> 
> But you're never going to beat a real piano. Just as a small example, I was round an auction house viewing about 9 months ago and an upright Challen (quite modern and completely in tune and in great condition) was up for sale. So I sat down and played Lady Madonna and drew quite crowd and a load of applause (I loved that bit a lot).
> There's no way on earth you're going to get that _sound and level of feedback through your hands and brain_ from a virtual piano trust me. I don't care how good anyone thinks their weighted BS state of the art controller keyboard is.
> ...




I completely agree with you, on the other hand Orcel haven't said that a virtual piano can replace the real thing, he says, that Garittan CFX is currently the best choice (sound-wise and playability-wise) and I agree with him totally (based on over 20 piano libraries I own). So you're both right


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## Alatar (Dec 12, 2015)

Actually, I prefer virtual pianos. They sound better than your average real piano.
Of course, if you can get an expensive grand piano, things are different. But unless you have that money, I'd choose a digital piano any time.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 12, 2015)

Alatar said:


> Actually, I prefer virtual pianos. They sound better than your average real piano.



You're a crap player then are you? 

Your'e not being serious right? 

THEY DO NOT SOUND BETTER THAN A REAL AVERAGE PIANO! GET YOUR EARS TESTED SIR!


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 12, 2015)

lumcas said:


> I completely agree with you, on the other hand Orcel haven't said that a virtual piano can replace the real thing, he says, that Garittan CFX is currently the best choice (sound-wise and playability-wise) and I agree with him totally (based on over 20 piano libraries I own). So you're both right



You have 20 piano libraries? I would have given up after say……..5?


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## Carbs (Dec 12, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> Hey Gunther! I'm not the one with the permid hair!



Lol!! Honestly...it is strikingly similar to my mother-in-laws haircut, so it's been disturbing me...thanks for the laugh. (No offense, Gunther, I've been reading this forum long enough to know you have a good sense of humor). 

As far as your opinion of sampled piano goes, I think most trained musicians would agree that nothing beats the real thing. I'm with you 100%. 

I'm a guitarist - not a pianist - but there is absolutely no way a guitar library could replace or replicate AT ALL what I can record/perform on the real instrument. 

I tend to roll my eyes at guitar libraries (not looking down on people that don't play, don't misunderstand) because I know they could never match a live performance on a real guitar. 

That very thought goes through my head every time I'm dealing with an orchestral instrument. I imagine an amazing violin player probably has the same "this could never satisfy me" thoughts when analyzing a solo violin virtual instrument. 

We tend to be very limited when dealing with vi's...

All that aside...

I think the piano sounds awesome! Unfortunately for me, even the intro price is way too expensive.


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## Resoded (Dec 12, 2015)

Your own recorded pianos wouldn't have the sound of AIR with reverb and all.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 12, 2015)

Resoded said:


> Your own recorded pianos wouldn't have the sound of AIR with reverb and all.



Oh now come along, come along!

You can add all sorts of reverb etc to an audio file of a real piano surely?


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 12, 2015)

Carbs said:


> I'm a guitarist - not a pianist - but there is absolutely no way a guitar library could replace or replicate AT ALL what I can record/perform on the real instrument.



Absolutely.

For many years I thought most guitarists were morons until I decided to learn to play the guitar myself. The amount of nuances alone would sink a battleship.


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## Resoded (Dec 12, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> Oh now come along, come along!
> 
> You can add all sorts of reverb etc to an audio file of a real piano surely?



You can add fake reverb, not the real AIR sound.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 12, 2015)

Resoded said:


> You can add fake reverb, not the real AIR sound.



But it's not a real piano is it. It's a fake piano. 

For some reason you are saying you can't add fake reverb to a real piano, BUT you can have real reverb on a fake piano.


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## Resoded (Dec 12, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> But it's not a real piano is it. It's a fake piano.
> 
> For some reason you are saying you can't add fake reverb to a real piano, BUT you can have real reverb on a fake piano.



What a strange discussion. The major selling point for Spitfire libraries is the sound of AIR. Same thing with this library. What I say is that adding algo or convo reverb to your own recording of a piano does not have the sound of AIR. You can't seriously disagree with that?


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## gjelul (Dec 12, 2015)

Still trying to understand this thread - weird discussion, reminds me of kindergarten.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 12, 2015)

Resoded said:


> What a strange discussion. The major selling point for Spitfire libraries is the sound of AIR. Same thing with this library. What I say is that adding algo or convo reverb to your own recording of a piano does not have the sound of AIR. You can't seriously disagree with that?



The sound of AIR is great as is a lot of studios.

Have you been into a studio and recorded on a real piano? Have you any idea what they add to a real piano in the studio? Sometimes it can be nothing I will concede that, but often it can be quite a lot.

This isn't about reverb but about virtual pianos. Not necessarily this piano, but all.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 12, 2015)

gjelul said:


> reminds me of kindergarten.



Well you'd better get back there then or add something intelligent to this conversation if indeed, you're allowed to stay up this late.


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## Resoded (Dec 12, 2015)

Baron Greuner, I see you just recently registered on this forum so I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt. I think I was kind of argumentative when I joined this forum too.

The thing is, this forum has long been quite free of the traditional forum nonsense and I love having it that way.


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## Zhao Shen (Dec 12, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> You're a crap player then are you?


Completely unwarranted remark. Disappointed in the direction your argument has taken.


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## Guffy (Dec 12, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> Oh now come along, come along!
> 
> You can add all sorts of reverb etc to an audio file of a real piano surely?



Yes, but it still won't be recorded at AIR studios.
You can EQ all you want aswell, but it still won't have many many thousands of dollars worth of microphones and hardware invested in the recording process. (It may - of course, but usually not). And don't forget all the knowledgable people involved.

It's not always about realism either.
Do you think Hans chose to use the Malmsjø over the bosendorfer in his studio because it sounds more realistic?


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## ysnyvz (Dec 12, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> The sound of AIR is great as is a lot of studios.
> 
> Have you been into a studio and recorded on a real piano? Have you any idea what they add to a real piano in the studio? Sometimes it can be nothing I will concede that, but often it can be quite a lot.
> 
> This isn't about reverb but about virtual pianos. Not necessarily this piano, but all.


Maybe you should ask these questions to Hans Zimmer. Because he is the one who wanted to make this "fake piano"


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## Dave Connor (Dec 12, 2015)

I have an absolutely incredible sounding Yamaha C7. Being a piano player, naturally if I want to sit down and play that's where I'm going to do it. I will record it as well depending on what I'm working on. That said, of course I want the best possible virtual piano available - I'm a piano player! I do mockups professionally and work in midi all the time. What if a composer sends me a midi composition of an orchestral (or other) piece with a piano track and needs to hear something in a few hours? Silly argument professionally speaking.


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## germancomponist (Dec 12, 2015)

I think it is very clear that a VST Instrument is not the real thing.

Baron, if you do not like VST instruments, this is fine, no question. But we do and we have a lot of fun with it and are happy about the "sound". This piano sounds so very good to my ears and this is the reason why I will get it.
Look, that's me!


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## Dave Connor (Dec 12, 2015)

I just listened to the demo _Inauguration _and sort of checked out the concept of this instrument. In this day and age of hybrid and new sounds it would seem to me it's exactly what someone would want in their toolbox. Particularly in film where the character of the sound is as important as the musical statement. To have a vast sonic palette on a traditional acoustic instrument like that gives you sounds you would likely never be able to create yourself. Who has the time, money, expertise and studio environment to do that? People's ears are used to hearing a wide variety of acoustic, non-acoustic and all points in between sounds these days. More importantly, most film makers want exactly that and you want to be able to deliver a fresh, modern sounding score to them (unless you're asked not to in which case get out your Ravel scores or whatever.)

That incredible low bottom end that comes in early on in the demo is just gorgeous. Just one or two things like that will get me to buy a library - because you either have it in your palette or you don't.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 12, 2015)

No I do not like VST instruments particularly Gunther. You are correct. Like Daryl, I very much prefer the real aspect of real players. Unlike Daryl, I am unable to afford real players and therefore have to use VST instruments. 
However, you are right Gunther. You should always stick to your guns and get what you think will work for you.


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## germancomponist (Dec 12, 2015)

I also prefer the real aspect of real players, no question, but I/you have to pay them ... .


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## Dave Connor (Dec 12, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> No I do not like VST instruments particularly Gunther. You are correct. Like Daryl, I very much prefer the real aspect of real players. Unlike Daryl, I am unable to afford real players and therefore have to use VST instruments.
> However, you are right Gunther. You should always stick to your guns and get what you think will work for you.


Fair enough but if there is no instrumentalist who can give you a certain sound what are you going to do? There is a philosophical difference between using completely organic/acoustic instruments and not - but once someone comes down on the side of allowing for _any _sound source to be altered or used then the matter is settled.


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## kdm (Dec 12, 2015)

Putting the live vs library debate aside, I think this piano sounds excellent, even for a sampled grand. I am a trained, skilled pianist and keyboard player, and am picky even about real grand pianos, much less sampled pianos (most all of which fall quite short of a live grand, but can work quite well in context). But, an average Steinway will run $30k+ (their piano may well be worth far more), plus the space for one. This library is $350 and the cost of an SSD (cheap). Seems like quite a fair tradeoff technology and Hans/Spitfire's work is affording us, considering the quality of the library is far more than the 1% of the price it represents. I don't need a sampled piano necessarily and had no plans to add another (have a few that work well usually), but this is now high on my list.

Nice work Spitfire and Hans!


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## stargazer (Dec 12, 2015)

stargazer said:


> Pedal down samples?


Bumping my question regarding pedal down samples.


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## NoamL (Dec 12, 2015)

kitekrazy said:


> Overkill IMO.



It's based on a main selling point of Spitfire - letting YOU create any AIR mix you want.

It is also based on the main selling point of Hans' music which @Dave Connor condensed brilliantly, "The character of the sound is as important as the musical statement." The instrument is like a toolkit for finding exactly the right grand piano sound. With the mains and spots alone you have 16 potential combinations.


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## tack (Dec 12, 2015)

stargazer said:


> Bumping my question regarding pedal down samples.


I assume you mean not the pedal itself, but the sympathetic resonance on the soundboard generated when notes are struck with the sustain pedal pressed?

Yes, it does. Looking at the group editor confirms it, as there are separate pedalup and pedaldown groups. The sympathetic resonance is not as pronounced as with some piano VSTis but it's there, and the note certainly opens up quite a bit when pressing the sustain pedal while it's decaying.

Soft pedal however seems to just be implemented with EQ.


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## Leeward (Dec 12, 2015)

Wow, sounds lovely. Very dynamic.

Was very tempted to purchase just now but sense took over and I will hold off for a while. Sounds well worth the price tag but I just don't have the funds (or space) at the moment. Sad face.


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## b2 (Dec 12, 2015)

stargazer said:


> Bumping my question regarding pedal down samples.



The UNA CORDA pedal (left one) is a completely different timbre using 2 strings instead of 3. This cannot be faked with EQ, in a somewhat similar manner to creating a Con Sordino patch from a normal violin articulation. Any piano library that misses this .. oh well too bad. The Vienna Bosie has una corda samples and is what I use however i do like the sound of the HZP a lot so will probably order it.


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## FriFlo (Dec 12, 2015)

tack said:


> I assume you mean not the pedal itself, but the sympathetic resonance on the soundboard generated when notes are struck with the sustain pedal pressed?
> 
> Yes, it does. Looking at the group editor confirms it, as there are separate pedalup and pedaldown groups. The sympathetic resonance is not as pronounced as with some piano VSTis but it's there, and the note certainly opens up quite a bit when pressing the sustain pedal while it's decaying.
> 
> Soft pedal however seems to just be implemented with EQ.


Well, that covers all the information I need, then. A huge letdown! It is not enough to me, that it sounds good. I need it to be thoroughly executed, which should easily be doable at 200gb compressed ...


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## tack (Dec 12, 2015)

After having played HZ Piano a bit longer, here's my personal opinion:

It_ sounds_ absolutely fantastic, of course. But people looking for a playable solo piano that behaves close to the real thing will be disappointed. Unfortunately, it _feels_ like samples being triggered by a keyboard. I can't help but pit it against my favorite sample-based piano, Galaxy Vintage D, which for me remains the gold standard in playability for sample-based piano VSTis.

From the other thread, I knew HZP lacked repedalling, and I expected to feel that pretty severely, and I did. Notes suddenly vanish after a fast pedal up/down during flowing passages, which is the classic symptom when repedalling isn't supported. There are several other nuances that break the illusion of the virtual instrument. For example, while playing Moonlight Sonata, the melody was very difficult to preserve because when you strike the same note multiple times with the sustain pedal, when you release the sustain pedal with that note still held, the earlier sample layers suddenly drop away, leaving an abrupt change in volume of the note.

Also be aware that it chews up voices. Mix in 2 or 3 mic positions, and the default 400 voices isn't sufficient. Noticed during Clair de Lune, where chords are played over a bass pedal tone. It's no fun when your pedal tone drops out.  Reducing the number of mics and/or increasing the number of voices helps of course, but when you have a ceiling on the number of voices your system can deliver, you just need to be aware of this.

For mockups, I think many of the playability limitations can be overcome with MIDI note and CC tweaking, and of course it sounds sublime, so that alone may be worth the expense for some.

For me, HZP will not replace Galaxy Vintage D or Pianoteq as the pianos I play when I'm composing or practicing. Even as a source of inspiration, the lack of performance realism will probably frustrate me too much. But it will definitely replace the orchestral grand currently in my template, and for solo contexts, it will find a lot of use since I won't mind tweaking notes as needed in exchange for the wonderful sound.

But notice my criticisms are less about the sound (samples) and more about the playability (programming). So there is some hope that this will see some iteration that improves on the performance nuances.


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## prodigalson (Dec 12, 2015)

Been playing around a bit and here are my thoughts so far, largely in agreement with Tack.

First of all, the download was waaaay easier than I was expecting. I started it at 3am and by waking at 9am much to my surprise it was done. Thank God I recently upgraded my internet!

They clearly set out with the same ethos as HZ Percussion; to do something different that sounds the way Hans would want it to sound. My initial reaction to the sound was that it's really really nice...though a little bright in the default patch for my personal taste. The 'Warm and Rounded' patch sounds closer to what I like but still could use a LITTLE more fullness in the mid-range. That's ok though as I have several other warmer pianos that I like for those moments. That being said, there are so many mic positions and sonic possibilities that with that and a little creative EQ you could get close to any sound you'd like, I'd imagine. And, the upper register sounds particularly fantastic to me. I don't think theres going to be any problem getting this piano to stand out in a mix.

The flexibility in terms of positioning in the room is truly what makes this VI stand out for me. It can sound pretty close (though as with other SF BML libraries you're never going to completely lose the sound of the room) but you can also push it waaay back into the room. 

The soft notes patch is really cool. It's a really interesting idea, not sure what I'll use it for yet but as soon as I heard it I knew that if I added a few db of gain and a few choice vintage hardware plugs I could get a really unique and amazing sound. 

Agree that in terms of playability, as a solo instrument you're not going to be mocking up any Rachmaninov concertos any time soon but I'd imagine that's not what they made this piano for. There are maybe other pianos that are better for that. But it sounds sooo good in this hall and between the many mic positions and unique FX patches the sonic possibilities, I'd imagine are huge. 

This library isn't going to completely replace my other piano libraries any time soon...and that's a GREAT thing. In the same sense that HZ Percussion doesn't replace my other orchestral percussion libraries.

If you want to sit at a weighted, ivory keyed controller and play solo Chopin preludes there MAY be better libraries but my initial impression is that this is a Piano VI that Hans and the SF guys would want for themselves in their own music and to that end, I think they've succeeded.


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## tack (Dec 12, 2015)

Another thing I'll mention is that some of the samples are not without their share of ticks and clacks and creaks and other unwanted room noises common with Spitfire libraries. It's not as bad as I've heard, but you _will _notice it under headphones playing around.

I couldn't find a way in the UI to ignore RRs, but I suppose given that (very happily!) it's not a locked library, I can take care of this within Kontakt.

Again it's not a showstopper, but it's a mild disappointment to hear such room noises on such a premium library. (Room noises as such don't bother me, but the problem is when you trigger the same sample multiple times and the same artifacts fire out in succession.)


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## tack (Dec 12, 2015)

tack said:


> There are several other nuances that break the illusion of the virtual instrument. For example, while playing Moonlight Sonata, the melody was very difficult to preserve because when you strike the same note multiple times with the sustain pedal, when you release the sustain pedal with that note still held, the earlier sample layers suddenly drop away, leaving an abrupt change in volume of the note.


Here's a quick rendering of the first minute or so of Moonlight Sonata.

You can tell I am still struggling with dialing in the velocity curve. My dynamics are all over the place, and in some spots I lose my tempo because I'm startled by how loud or quiet the note just played turned out. I'm no brilliant pianist by any stretch, but you'll have to take my word for it that I'm not quite this bad. 

But what I really wanted to highlight was the phenomenon I mentioned in my earlier post. You can hear it with the G# at 30 seconds, and G at 50 seconds. These melody notes are supposed to ring out smoothly and naturally.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 12, 2015)

tack, that sounds really good to me. I hear none of the brittle midrange you hear in bad sampled pianos.


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## tack (Dec 12, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> tack, that sounds really good to me. I hear none of the brittle midrange you hear in bad sampled pianos.


Yes, agreed. The mids are perhaps a bit sharper for my tastes, like prodigalson, but generally the sound is quite superb. It's certainly "full and bright" just as the patch says.

Apart from my dubious playing, I was mainly trying to demonstrate the dropouts for notes that had multiple samples playing simultaneously (repeatedly struck during sustain) in spite of still being pressed when the sustain pedal is released. I could do a simpler test case if you're not quite sure what I mean.


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## zolhof (Dec 12, 2015)

Thanks for your review, tack. Galaxy Vintage D is also my go-to piano in terms of playability.

For anyone curious about repedaling, halfpedaling, sostenuto, una corda.. this video is very informative:


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## jmvideo (Dec 12, 2015)

tack said:


> it _feels_ like samples being triggered by a keyboard.



I think this pretty much sums up my opinion after hearing the demos. I didn't want to say anything negative because obviously the folks at Spitfire have put a ton of work into this thing. But when you take away all the Hans Zimmer/Spitfire branding, and the hype of a new VI, I'm not hearing anything that sounds like a real piano.


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## tack (Dec 12, 2015)

I'm not quite so harsh. My problems are less to do with how it sounds and more to do with how to feels while playing. I do think it sounds quite lovely.


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## stargazer (Dec 13, 2015)

tack said:


> I assume you mean not the pedal itself, but the sympathetic resonance on the soundboard generated when notes are struck with the sustain pedal pressed?
> 
> Yes, it does. Looking at the group editor confirms it, as there are separate pedalup and pedaldown groups. The sympathetic resonance is not as pronounced as with some piano VSTis but it's there, and the note certainly opens up quite a bit when pressing the sustain pedal while it's decaying.
> 
> Soft pedal however seems to just be implemented with EQ.



If I understand you, there seems to be separate samples per note for sustain pedal down as opposed to sympathetic resonance simulated with impulse responses?

No una corda samples, then.
I wish they'd done that at the cost of a few of the mic alternatives.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 13, 2015)

Sorry to hear that Tack. Nice sound no question and I hear the issue with the repeated notes. But I already heard that on the demo video.
I would refer you to my first post on this thread. Obviously this has made no difference to many people and naturally one wishes them hours of enjoyment.


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## lumcas (Dec 13, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> You have 20 piano libraries? I would have given up after say……..5?


given up what?


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## Dave Connor (Dec 13, 2015)

Obviously this instrument wasn't designed to play Chopin. It's a cinematic tool. It doesn't make much sense that HZ would want to create a sampled Steinway instrument because he would just use a real one if that's what the music called for. This is an instrument that offers a lot of sounds that are piano based to get that sound into your music as a _new _sound rather than old Not any different than what you can do with an electric guitar versus an acoustic to where we now have "Cinematic Guitars" available to us. The concept is not new - the sounds are though.


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## Rctec (Dec 13, 2015)

Dear Stargazer, it takes forever to record another set of unicornda samples (roughly two minutes per note, if you hurry - multiplied by 88 times sixteen - pedal and non-pedal velocities, times five for round-robins... And many, many wrong starts. You try to hit each note with an equal touch!), but it doesn't add a lot of time to just stick up a few more microphones. 

This library was recorded from a very personal point of view. I like the sound and different colours you get from different microphones (and AIR has one of the most exquisite and exclusively well-maintained microphone selection in the world). I think each piece of music needs its own subtle Colour of recording technique. Just like you choose the appropriate player for a piece, you need to pick you microphone. It's not "one size fits all" - otherwise Geoff Foster would be happy to just stick with one set of mic's. But each microphone tells a slightly different story...

I love the sound of The Hall. It doesn't really matter that much which instrument you put in there - the acoustics will just make it inspiring and wonderful.
But we wanted to be able to go from epic to very intimate (which meant different mic positions and distances, of course), and I felt that no one ever had done truly quiet and even velocities on a piano successfully. ...And now I know why. It was extraordinarily difficult to get the piano to "speak" evenly, to have the mastery of the right muscle control (Simon Chamberlin is an extraordinary player) and retain analog goodness while maintaining an acceptable noise-floor. It was sheer torture and some of the Spitfire team will probably never be the same again. I'm twitching just thinking about it!

The other important issue for me was that it should be a "Recording" piano. There will always be a difference between the way it feels to perform on a real piano - you feel the physical vibration in your fingers and your body. But I make recordings, not live-performances. So it was important to me that the sound would make for extraordinary recordings that translated well in even the biggest IMAX theaters. (That's why we use so much analog gear. It just seems to hold focus more consistently to me across a 100-foot screen...)
You can't just take a piano and slap some artificial reverb on. Convolution - to my ears - isn't advanced enough to capture the subtlety and beauty of a great acoustic space.

But in the end, it's a very personal and subjective sound. It might not be your aesthetic. 

But I want to thank Christian and Paul, Geoff and the team at Air Studios - and most of all the unsung heroes, the whole "Spitfire" editing, de-no using, naming team for doing the impossible - 18 months with grace, passion and dedication!

-Hz-


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## gjelul (Dec 13, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> Well you'd better get back there then or add something intelligent to this conversation if indeed, you're allowed to stay up this late.



Can't add anything... seems you're definitely the intelligent one in this forum. Good luck!


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## tack (Dec 13, 2015)

Rctec said:


> You try to hit each note with an equal touch!), but it doesn't add a lot of time to just stick up a few more microphones.


I had no idea it would be this way. I would have expected some kind of mechanical rig, perhaps using weights or magnets, to deliver a consistent, adjustable velocity on each key.

I suppose what I'm asking is: why _isn't_ it that way? Such a device doesn't seem too difficult to build, and certainly would spare a talented pianist many boring days and weeks.


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## Casiquire (Dec 13, 2015)

tack said:


> I had no idea it would be this way. I would have expected some kind of mechanical rig, perhaps using weights or magnets, to deliver a consistent, adjustable velocity on each key.
> 
> I suppose what I'm asking is: why _isn't_ it that way? Such a device doesn't seem too difficult to build, and certainly would spare a talented pianist many boring days and weeks.



VSL's Imperial was done using mechanics instead of a real human. That's how they were able to sample like 100 velocity layers without worrying about keeping things consistent.


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## tack (Dec 13, 2015)

Rctec said:


> But in the end, it's a very personal and subjective sound. It might not be your aesthetic.


I think the sound -- and _flexibility _of the sound -- does speak for itself. My comments were to make people understand they shouldn't compare it to pianos that seem to focus on solo playability, and I think your comments about the design goals of HZ Piano put that nicely into context.

Thanks for chiming in, Hans. (Especially on this thread, which has gotten a bit sophomoric at times.)


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 13, 2015)

But it was ever going to be 'solo playability'. I tried to explain all of this from the very beginning. But wound up getting flack. That's OK though. I started playing pianos in recording studios in London in 1968. And they were/are all playable and the whole point of piano playing is playability which allows you to not have to think about nano seconds, latency, staccato, or anything along those lines. Latency and all that stuff wasn't even thought of in those days.

I've seen a concert pianist at college smash a piano up because it was out tune, never mind non playablilty.


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## stargazer (Dec 13, 2015)

I very much appreciate your answer and the philosophy behind this library, Rctec!
I also respect the hard work you all have put into this.
Especially looking forward to try the Super Soft patches!

Thanks,
Hakan Glante


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## Dave Connor (Dec 13, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> ...they were/are all playable and the whole point of piano playing is playability...


As a piano player, I totally get your desires and expectations as a player. When HZ or _anyone _sets off to design an instrument, you are now in the world of _their _desires and expectations. At that point the piano just becomes a sort of common denominator but most similarities end there. A Prepared Piano as envisioned and used by John Cage is something he wanted and samples of that {highly personal} use of that instrument are now common. Playing a Beethoven Sonata on that is not what it's designed for. So it's really just the basic principle where someone wants to use an instrument in a less conventional way and fortunately (for many anyway) it's available to anyone who would like use it in whatever way they choose.


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## tack (Dec 13, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> But it was ever going to be 'solo playability'.


Clearly _HZP _was never going to be about that, because as Rctec pointed out, the goals were different.

But that's not to say it couldn't have been. Playability and feel is a spectrum. Although most do not, some VSTi pianos have excellent playability. I mentioned Galaxy Vintage D, which is the best of the sample-based pianos I have tried (and I have tried many). Pianoteq is _the_ most playable virtual instrument I've ever used -- very much passable for a real piano in feel and response when paired with a good controller such as the Kawai VPC1.


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## prodigalson (Dec 13, 2015)

I think that there is a nuance to this discussion that is being somewhat lost in translation. There is an assumption being made that what one person desires in a piano library should be what everyone else desires too. And along the same lines, that all piano libraries should have the same features and approach and if they don't then they are definitively "not good libraries" and not useful additions to the market. There are several libraries with dozens of velocity layers and half pedalling and re pedalling and una corda and controllable sympathetic resonance etc etc etc. Why would Hans and SF bother to compete with these? They clearly wanted to make a piano library that was unique and focused on the things that they think are important as very accomplished modern film composers. I think they've done that. There is absolutely no other piano library that is going to sound like this, in this hall with all these mics. 

They chose to prioritize mic positions and sonic flexibility over a million velocity layers and features and in that sense it is a useful *addition* to a cinematic composers arsenal especially if you already use a lot of SF's libraries. 

IMO, there are other libraries that perhaps feel more authentic under your fingers on first play but many of those libraries sound dead and dry and feel too clean and pristine. 

I see myself using this library A LOT. not for everything but how many of us have libraries that we use for everything?


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## dan1 (Dec 13, 2015)

how can you even say those words "another piano library"
ITS FUCKING ZIMMER'S
you cant even compare that with anything...
you perceive this library as classical piano library, no!!!!! its not meant to be... who cares with pedal or without........
when you try to score something very mild and quiet and dramatic .. like the piano from interstellar.. do you hear any pedal?.. who cares...it's all about the feel
they didn't just capture plain piano sound... they captured hans own touch, his own emotion & feeling
I stink you just being too picky and technical, nobody cares about technical specs, you looking for "yet another" piano?.. or a piano with the personal touch from godfather of all epic..who taught you everything you know
who gives a fap about the size/price, you got a gift from god.. you wont take it?
GO BUY IT NOW!!! i'm not paid for this just mad


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## davidgary73 (Dec 13, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> But it was ever going to be 'solo playability'. I tried to explain all of this from the very beginning. But wound up getting flack. That's OK though. I started playing pianos in recording studios in London in 1968. And they were/are all playable and the whole point of piano playing is playability which allows you to not have to think about nano seconds, latency, staccato, or anything along those lines. Latency and all that stuff wasn't even thought of in those days.
> 
> I've seen a concert pianist at college smash a piano up because it was out tune, never mind non playablilty.



I agree with you with what you have said earlier.

IMHO, best that *YOU* remove any VI samples or even plugins, throw all of them away if you have any in your computer as they are all fake sounding. 

Go buy the real stuff and let us have all the fun with all these fantastic VI samples


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## Zhao Shen (Dec 13, 2015)

dan1 said:


> how can you even say those words "another piano library"
> ITS FUCKING ZIMMER'S
> you cant even compare that with anything...
> you perceive this library as classical piano library, no!!!!! its not meant to be... who cares with pedal or without........
> ...



OK I agree that the piano sounds gorgeous - the main negatives for me are the size and price, so I'd be extremely happy to see a "light" version come to fruition. Otherwise, my ears absolutely love how this instrument sounds.

*However. *"Who cares about pedal?" "who gives a fap about the size/price?" "Godfather of all epic...who taught you everything you know?" Please, I respect Zimmer enormously and he is a big reason of why I got into music in the first place, so of course I can't thank him enough for that...but no. Your logic seems to go along the lines of "this is a Zimmer product, therefore it cannot have fault," and that's completely false.

Personally, as someone who may not be a skilled pianist like many of those here on this thread, I don't get some of the previously stated points of contention. But your argument is not a good rebuttal to those points at all. If you like it, buy it. If you have issues with it that you can't overlook, make an informed decision. But don't bring up this "Zimmer is god" stuff...


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## dpasdernick (Dec 13, 2015)

tack said:


> Another thing I'll mention is that some of the samples are not without their share of ticks and clacks and creaks and other unwanted room noises common with Spitfire libraries. It's not as bad as I've heard, but you _will _notice it under headphones playing around.
> 
> I couldn't find a way in the UI to ignore RRs, but I suppose given that (very happily!) it's not a locked library, I can take care of this within Kontakt.
> 
> Again it's not a showstopper, but it's a mild disappointment to hear such room noises on such a premium library. (Room noises as such don't bother me, but the problem is when you trigger the same sample multiple times and the same artifacts fire out in succession.)



It's funny you mention this. When I purchased the first Albion I noticed some severe tuning issues in the brass. When I mentioned this to Spitfire they basically said a few out of tune notes adds to the realism. I countered that if you have a wonky Bb note, and every time you hit it it's wonky, it screams samples and not realism. I assume the same thing with this piano. If there is room noise in one of the notes and it's triggered each time you hit that note it is a painful reminder that you are triggering samples.


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## dan1 (Dec 13, 2015)

Zhao Shen said:


> don't bring up this "Zimmer is god" stuff...



"zimmer is god" na bushi wo de yisi lol only god is god lol I meant to say he was the inventor of epic music (na jiu god(father) of epic)


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## Rodney Money (Dec 13, 2015)

With all do respect to Han's work, I always thought Giovanni Gabrielli created "epic." 3:42 to the end, guys.


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## RiffWraith (Dec 13, 2015)

dan1 said:


> I meant to say he was the inventor of epic music (na jiu god(father) of epic)



With all due respect to Mr. Z... you aren't serious with that remark, are you?


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## Zhao Shen (Dec 13, 2015)

dan1 said:


> "zimmer is god" na bushi wo de yisi lol only god is god lol I meant to say he was the inventor of epic music (na jiu god(father) of epic)


"Inventor of epic music" isn't a very apt description... Also, me being Chinese does not mean you need to make remarks in Chinese to convey your point.


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## prodigalson (Dec 13, 2015)

dpasdernick said:


> It's funny you mention this. When I purchased the first Albion I noticed some severe tuning issues in the brass. When I mentioned this to Spitfire they basically said a few out of tune notes adds to the realism. I countered that if you have a wonky Bb note, and every time you hit it it's wonky, it screams samples and not realism. I assume the same thing with this piano. If there is room noise in one of the notes and it's triggered each time you hit that note it is a painful reminder that you are triggering samples.



This piano has 5 RR per note.


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## Rctec (Dec 13, 2015)

Rodney Money said:


> With all do respect to Han's work, I always thought Giovanni Gabrielli created "epic." 3:42 to the end, guys.




EPIC?!?
just watch this from about 11:00 minutes in for a bit of "EPIC". Of course, you could watch it from the beginning to see the bit where I stole the idea of the off-stage horns for 'Batman" from:




-Hz-


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## Rodney Money (Dec 13, 2015)

Rctec said:


> EPIC?!?
> just watch this from about 11:00 minutes in for a bit of "EPIC". Of course, you could watch it from the beginning to see the bit where I stole the idea of the off-stage horns for 'Batman" from:
> 
> 
> ...



Would you believe that was actually my first choice, lol! So true. Once I had the honor of arranging the opening of Mahler's 5th and the Finale of 2 for 23 seperate trumpet parts, organ, and percussion for a concert honoring trumpet player Robert Nagel who play under the direction of Stravinsky. Thank you for the post, my friend, I believe the world would be so much better if everyone took the time to listen to Mahler 2 at least once a week. Oh, and I am now stealing the off-stage effect for my trumpet concerto I'm currently working on also!


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## jtnyc (Dec 13, 2015)

dpasdernick said:


> It's funny you mention this. When I purchased the first Albion I noticed some severe tuning issues in the brass. When I mentioned this to Spitfire they basically said a few out of tune notes adds to the realism. I countered that if you have a wonky Bb note, and every time you hit it it's wonky, it screams samples and not realism. I assume the same thing with this piano. If there is room noise in one of the notes and it's triggered each time you hit that note it is a painful reminder that you are triggering samples.



Hahaha.... they told me the same exact thing and I responded exactly as you did. Too funny...


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## prodigalson (Dec 13, 2015)

Here's a quick snippet of the rachmaninov 2nd piano concerto, 2nd movement that I butchered after one too many whiskeys. 

out of the box sound. 'Warm and Rounded' patch.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 14, 2015)

Now here's a thing!

Had this library been called 'IT'S FUCKING ZIMMERS' in the first place that could have been a very different story. That would have been a great selling tool right off the bat.


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## Rctec (Dec 14, 2015)

tack said:


> I had no idea it would be this way. I would have expected some kind of mechanical rig, perhaps using weights or magnets, to deliver a consistent, adjustable velocity on each key.
> 
> I suppose what I'm asking is: why _isn't_ it that way? Such a device doesn't seem too difficult to build, and certainly would spare a talented pianist many boring days and weeks.


Oh, we build one! ...it just didn't ever work or sound particular human or silent...


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## Carbs (Dec 14, 2015)

Piano in Blue was recorded "by ear" instead of by velocity, since two notes struck at the same velocity wouldn't necessarily match tone wise. I think that's a rather smart approach and am not surprised HZ went that route.


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## tack (Dec 14, 2015)

Rctec said:


> Oh, we build one! ...it just didn't ever work or sound particular human or silent...


Hm, interesting point. Sounds like a delightfully fun engineering problem.


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## Tatu (Dec 14, 2015)

Rctec said:


> Oh, we build one! ...it just didn't ever work or sound particular human or silent...


Perhaps you did something wrong with it. :D Soft mallets?


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## williemyers (Dec 14, 2015)

tack said:


> Here's a quick rendering of the first minute or so of Moonlight Sonata.
> .


lovely!


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## dan1 (Dec 14, 2015)

RiffWraith said:


> With all due respect to Mr. Z... you aren't serious with that remark, are you?


I was serious



Zhao Shen said:


> "Inventor of epic music" isn't a very apt description... Also, me being Chinese does not mean you need to make remarks in Chinese to convey your point.


i like chinese people how is my chinese?
but saying that hans isnt the god of epicness..
is like saying bill gates isnt the god of computer
like newton isnt the god of math
or edison isnt the god of electricity
you get my point right


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## williemyers (Dec 14, 2015)

jtnyc said:


> Hahaha.... they told me the same exact thing and I responded exactly as you did. Too funny...


make that - at least - three of us!...(who were told the same thing and responded the same way!)


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## RiffWraith (Dec 14, 2015)

dan1 said:


> I was serious



Sorry to hear that. As good a composer as Hans Zimmer is, he is absolutely not the inventor of epic music. Not sure what makes you think he is.

Google "Carl Orff" when you get a sec.

Cheers.


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## bigcat1969 (Dec 14, 2015)

Just reading this conversation and listening to the demos makes me want to delete every 'instrument' I've ever tried to make, burn my computer and become a monk. It might not be up to the standards of some of you guys, but it sounds amazing to my untrained ears.


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## tack (Dec 14, 2015)

bigcat1969 said:


> It might not be up to the standards of some of you guys, but it sounds amazing to my untrained ears.


I agree it sounds amazing. I just want to again underline the distinction between sound and feel.


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## dpasdernick (Dec 14, 2015)

prodigalson said:


> This piano has 5 RR per note.



The point is that if one of those round robins has noise or is out of tune you will hear that every single time you trigger that sample. 

VSL has a great sample player that introduces random subtle pitch to every trigger of a sample. Even with round robins you get even more "randomness" to it but it is never the same twice. This works well with brass, woodwinds and strings. Not sure if a piano is meant to be "imperfected" in this way.


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## quantum7 (Dec 14, 2015)

I found this thread to be very interesting with the "all sampled pianos suck" and "fake piano" talk. How the hell is this "fake"? They recorded the piano in the same manor that they would have when a performer would be playing it. I'm guessing that at Air Studios with all the mic positions a 10 song project would cost thousands of dollars to record. $300 or $400 is a small price to pay to get a lifetime of results in the privacy of your own studio that will get you nearly the same results. Yeah, it's not quite the same as playing the piano at Air for real, but again, look at the cost difference. 

I have a 7' grand in my living room that sounds quite nice, and sitting in front of it to play it is more satisfying than my favorite sampled pianos, but that said, I've gotten much better results in my recordings a majority of the time using sampled pianos. Recording a real piano and making it sound very nice is not always an easy job......and usually quite expensive in a high-end facility. Along with performing with the Jordinaires and many others, my uncle Dan has played the piano professionally for nearly 50 years now and has had his performances recorded in some very nice studios across the country on exquisitely maintained pianos over the years, and I have to say that more than a few of the recordings were, to be frank, somewhat disappointing IMO. In the last several years he has been increasingly blown away with the results he has achieved with the likes of Soniccouture's The Hammersmith or VI Lab's Ravenscroft. IMO there can NEVER be enough sampled pianos....or sampled anything for that matter. Nearly every new high-end sampled library that is released seems to bring something just a little bit better or unique to the table.... so once I get another SSD in my DAW I will definitely be picking the Zimmer piano up. It's great that we can now get the Zimmer/Air sound without the Zimmer/Air cost.


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## Hannes_F (Dec 14, 2015)

Ladies and Gentlemen,
we are getting reports about some posts in this thread (3 so far). It would be a pity to derail it with offtopic stuff, gross language and personal attacks, so please don't, thanks. (this is not aiming at you quantum7 but to others before)


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## dan1 (Dec 14, 2015)

Hannes_F said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen,
> we are getting reports about some posts in this thread (3 so far). It would be a pity to derail it with offtopic stuff, gross language and personal attacks, so please don't, thanks. (this is not aiming at you quantum7 but to others before)


i apologize the offensive language just i was so mad people dump 18 months of hans/spitfire work as if it was just another library


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## kitekrazy (Dec 14, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> Now here's a thing!
> 
> Had this library been called 'IT'S FUCKING ZIMMERS' in the first place that could have been a very different story. That would have been a great selling tool right off the bat.



IMO adding a name adds to the price. EVH Phazer, Hendricks Wah, just for starts.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Dec 14, 2015)

I am only scratching the surface, but I love HZP so far!
It is a great coloristic tool/palette, with many applications.
I suck at piano, so the way it responds to challenging material in a live performance is not a concern.
I was hesitant after purchasing it as to whether or not it was all that I expected it to be, but after a couple of days, I have to say that I am delighted.
Also looking forward to future updates that will further refine this jewel...


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## Rctec (Dec 14, 2015)

kitekrazy said:


> IMO adding a name adds to the price. EVH Phazer, Hendricks Wah, just for starts.


...Adding 30 + years of recording movie scores should add to the price, but I'm not charging you for that...or my name. But I'm not Hendrix!


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## edhamilton (Dec 14, 2015)

Gracious and self deprecating - in the spite of what is likely one of the most disappointing threads I've seen here since day 1.


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## kunst91 (Dec 15, 2015)

edhamilton said:


> Gracious and self deprecating - in the spite of what is likely one of the most disappointing threads I've seen here since day 1.



You obviously missed the Paris thread...


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## kunst91 (Dec 15, 2015)

To my guitarist's ears the piano sounds beautiful! I'm currently maxed out on hard drive space, so I can't afford to buy the library and the extra hardware. Holding out for the "lite" version!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 15, 2015)

> Google "Carl Orff" when you get a sec



And for that matter Beethoven's 5th (or Misa Solemnis), or Handel's Messiah, or hundreds of other epic pieces even before Wagner.

One thing you might be able to credit Hans with is the higher-impact electronics+orchestra layered film score sound. Out-orchestra-ing orchestras!

But what I've heard of the piano demos doesn't sound epic, tiny, expressive, unexpressive, or even epicurean. It just sounds like a really good sampled piano.


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## jononotbono (Apr 2, 2016)

I'm itching to buy this Piano but alas I need to buy a new SSD first to cater for it and then more RAM and then... Oh it just goes on and on doesn't it. Great sounding Piano from all the demos I have listened to.


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## Saxer (Apr 2, 2016)

It's not a piano that replaces a digi-piano like the Yamahas, Rolands and Kawais out there. I would put it into the category "Piano in Blue, Imperfectsamples, Emotional Piano" without being so dark. It dives beautifully into a mix. The more I use it the more I like it.


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## steveo42 (Apr 2, 2016)

I've been comparing this one, Hammersmith and Ravenscroft and the HZ seems like a composers piano to me. So something that will blend in with a movie score, commercial or such. Just my opinion listening to the demos. I'm still trying to decide between Hammersmith and Ravenscroft.. See my other thread regarding Ravenscroft sounding in real life like the demos.. Gonna pull the trigger on one of them in a day or two.


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## slobajudge (Apr 2, 2016)

steveo42 said:


> I've been comparing this one, Hammersmith and Ravenscroft and the HZ seems like a composers piano to me. So something that will blend in with a movie score, commercial or such. Just my opinion listening to the demos. I'm still trying to decide between Hammersmith and Ravenscroft.. See my other thread regarding Ravenscroft sounding in real life like the demos.. Gonna pull the trigger on one of them in a day or two.



I like Ravenscroft more then Hammersmith. Excellent playability, no single problems. This piano stand near the top samples pianos. Also with 5gb (compress) compare to 48gb of Hammersmith, it is perfect in every way. From time to time I play on Hammersmith, and I have good and bad days with this piano and somehow opposite opinions inside me. Low ends has a little blur so EQ-it is a must. For HZ Piano, i will skip it. 420e for non playable piano and 8 velocity levels at 200gb is a waste for me. But I understand if someone want it for cinematic stuff and lots of microphone positions to setup sound. Sorry, I probably say it too many times, but I am so in love with VSL VI. Its just have all that HZ Piano doesn`t, at the opposite side. Pianoteq 5 is on my list on second position with Ravenscroft at the moment.


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