# Plugin to catch distortion



## Bman70 (Dec 28, 2020)

I'm wondering if I already have something that does that Soundways Reveal does... on the master bus while adjusting your limiter it can listen for distortion that you might not otherwise detect easily.





Shop | Soundways


*/ [column cols="5" begin="1"] [flipbox type='img' image='https://soundways.com/sites/default/files/Core-Production-Bundle-Half-Size.png' title=''][/flipbox][/column] [column cols="7" end="1"]




www.soundways.com





Is there something in Ozone, or in Span or a cheaper plugin that will perform this function? Thanks


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 28, 2020)

Are you talking about detecting clipping or harmonic distortion?


----------



## Bman70 (Dec 28, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> Are you talking about detecting clipping or harmonic distortion?



Hmm probably clipping... or whatever happens when the limiter squashes something too much? But not sure what they mean, I just like the idea of being warned if some bad audio creeps in.
The description for Reveal says "Reveal is used to hear problems in the studio before they are heard on consumer listening systems. The top row is used to listen to core frequencies the human ear finds most sensitive." Then it has the Distortion Listening tab.


----------



## Macrawn (Dec 28, 2020)

Gosh I don't know if there is a tool in Ozone for checking distortion caused by the limiter smashing your mix. The limiter has a gain reduction trace view which shows you where the brick wall engages in and smashes the mix down, and by how many db. You can see visually how heavy it's smashing it. 

For balance there is tonal balance control ( I think it's not part of ozone but it's an izotope plugin) I find this very useful but it's not looking for distortion like you want but good for checking mixes. 

There is a plugin called mixchecker, I tried it and didn't think it was that great. I don't think it checks for distortion but it checks for other things. I didn't find it useful compared to what the ozone suite has, but I'm sure some people find it useful and it has a trial. 

I might give that a trial for kicks but it's pricey I think. Can't see myself buying it at the listed price.


----------



## Macrawn (Dec 28, 2020)

I was looking at some more info on the plugin. I think the distortion thing listens to only the side channels taking out the mids. That way you can hear any distortion that is masked by the loudness of the overall mix. I've got a brainworks plugin that just I can flick on the sides very easily. I never really thought to just listen to the sides for distortion but it does make sense I guess.


----------



## Bman70 (Dec 28, 2020)

Macrawn said:


> I was looking at some more info on the plugin. I think the distortion thing listens to only the side channels taking out the mids. That way you can hear any distortion that is masked by the loudness of the overall mix. I've got a brainworks plugin that just I can flick on the sides very easily. I never really thought to just listen to the sides for distortion but it does make sense I guess.



Right, that was the part I was interested in. I guess it just makes it easier to hear. I'll have to check if I have something that gives just the sides. Mostly I was interested in a single peak in my mix that Ozone was showing being reduced by about 7 or 8 dB. It's a saturated bass note, but I can't turn it down because it already sounds quiet. And the rest of the mix gets almost no limiting. So I wondered if that's too much squashing for a single quick peak. Another thread I guess but I'll do some Googling first.


----------



## AudioLoco (Dec 29, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> Right, that was the part I was interested in. I guess it just makes it easier to hear. I'll have to check if I have something that gives just the sides. Mostly I was interested in a single peak in my mix that Ozone was showing being reduced by about 7 or 8 dB. It's a saturated bass note, but I can't turn it down because it already sounds quiet. And the rest of the mix gets almost no limiting. So I wondered if that's too much squashing for a single quick peak. Another thread I guess but I'll do some Googling first.


In these cases, if you can, it is better to go back to the mix and adjust that peak. (It's called "fix it in the mix" not "fix it in the mastering"  )
If the bass note sounds quiet but "looks" loud it means it might have frequencies too low to translate to your monitoring, or any monitoring, depending on the frequencies.
You might need to cut what is not "useful" in that note. 
If it doesn't sound "bassy" as you would want it to, you can try some harmonic enhancers like RBass/MaxxBAss/Sub_Synth after cutting the very very low end a bit. 
They would give an illusion of having plenty of extreme low end while actually raising higher harmonics of the fundamental you are interested in enhancing, or simply add in the "right" low frequencies you are after.
It would be a pity to have an overall lower track volume just to accomodate one note....

There should be a few free plugins that just let you manipulate side and mid if you want to hear what is happening there.

Another good way of checking for distortion given from excessive limiting is soloing only the very high frequencies 8k/10K on-wards.(some multiband compressors can do that for example)
This kind of distortion is more appearent in high frequency ranges and this makes it easier to spot.


----------



## jcrosby (Dec 29, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> Right, that was the part I was interested in. I guess it just makes it easier to hear. I'll have to check if I have something that gives just the sides. Mostly I was interested in a single peak in my mix that Ozone was showing being reduced by about 7 or 8 dB. It's a saturated bass note, but I can't turn it down because it already sounds quiet. And the rest of the mix gets almost no limiting. So I wondered if that's too much squashing for a single quick peak. Another thread I guess but I'll do some Googling first.


Yeah that shouldn't happen, your limiter should be reacting to percussive transients. If it dips by 7 dB something is really wrong with that bass note. You should start using spectrum analyzers and get in the habit of looking for information that you might not be able to hear. An oscilloscope plugin is also very useful. Something this loud should reveal itself immediately on a scope...

I haven't used the scope below but it looks like it'll do the job and is free...









Oscilloscope by SocaLabs - Oscilloscope Plugin VST Audio Unit


Product Description: Stereo Oscilloscope. Negative or positive edge trigger. Adjustable trigger level. Y Offset per channel. ...




www.kvraudio.com





Also use a level meter of some kind, even a general RMS meter is fine. The trick to using a level meter is simple. you should be able to have your "mastered" track match the level of a commercial track similar to yours. If your track shows the same RMS but your track sounds much quieter it's as simple as this.. You have way too much low end... (Or LUFS - depends on preference but both tell you the same thing... RMS is easier to wrap your head around when your new, and it was the standard for decades before there were things like LUFS meters...An RMS meter is plenty alright...)

This is where analyzers can help you see what you may not yet have developed the skills to hear... They're basically great 'training' tools.. If you see an RMS value like a commercial track but your track is much quieter that tells you it's time to break out an analyzer and go hunting for low end rumble, or compare your track to the commercial track and see if your track has much more low end overall. (Not uncommon actually).

Each of these meters all tell you something different - a scope lets you see your waveform in real time, it can reveal a short problematic hit like yours, but these are also very useful to keep handy when applying dynamics of any kind... A spectrum analyzer shows you the frequency content.. I Find the most valuable feature in an analzyer is the ability to set very slow. This is useful for giving you an idea of how your perceive the overall "tone" of what you're looking at.. Finally, a level meter shows you the crest factor (the ratio of peaks to RMS/loudness (the perceived loudness)). They also can be useful for seeing if your low end is sitting well... To quiet = too much low end, too loud = too bright/not enough low end - mind you this is based on using a reference that is similar... Over time you learn what levels to look for and using a level meter becomes second nature..


----------



## labornvain (Dec 29, 2020)

This is what you need.


----------



## rrichard63 (Dec 29, 2020)

The manual for Reveal says

`Distortion Listening is a classic mastering technique for hearing distortion in a mix. This mode allows only side content to play. When listening in this way, any distortion created by compression or limiting can be easily heard, and limiters can be more precisely set. Avoid an over limited, distorted master by previewing your adjustments using Distortion Listening.`

In other words, it doesn't actually measure distortion. It only helps you hear it. As others have already pointed out, any of several free plugs will do this for you. One good one is Voxengo MSED.

I'm not aware of any plugins that measure distortion in real time.


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 29, 2020)

Do you have a multiband compressor or dynamic eq you can use to tame that big bass hit? Does it happen just once or several times? Do you have the individual stems for the track or the original source material?


----------



## Bman70 (Dec 30, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> Do you have a multiband compressor or dynamic eq you can use to tame that big bass hit? Does it happen just once or several times? Do you have the individual stems for the track or the original source material?



Yeah instead of letting the master limiter handle it, I stacked up insert effects on the bass itself to try to tame it. It's actually an instrument from Omnisphere (*Moonbase Arp*, with Arp turned off, playing D1.. might have f'd with it in other ways, can't remember. I think for B layer I changed the filter to LPF Juicy 12dB.)

I used Pro-Q3 to to cut a lot of lows... there was a big kind of hump below 50ish Hz, which is hopefully gone now. I used MaxxBass making sure it didn't redline (mainly I wanted this to give it some harmonics so it wouldn't disappear on iPhone speakers but it still does). I compressed it, narrowed its stereo field, and finally put a limiter on it individually. Now I'm not getting dB reduction more than 2 or 3, but I still can't hear it on phone speakers  .


----------



## jcrosby (Dec 30, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> playing D1.. might have f'd with it in other ways, can't remember.


There ya go... D1 on a correctly pitched instrument = 37 Hz. Typically stuff that low is better off distorted/saturated and high passed and the 'sub' played an octave up with a sine wave or something... Or in hip hop for example they'll distort the shit out of an 808 but high pass it above, and let the kick fill the sub out instead...

40 Hz is about as low as you want to go before things start to get really messy, or you run into information you can't hear or your speakers can't reproduce. Unfortunately you limiter doesn't care whether your speakers can produce information that low, it's just going to react to 37 Hz whether you can hear it or not.. If not dealt with properly the result can be a wonky sounding master... Especially given the reality that most commercial music is still mastered quite loud, (even if intended for streaming...)

I'll never forget years ago that I learned that Noisia (and several other EDM artists) typically wrote between E and A - (41-55 Hz)... F/F#/G they felt were the ideal keys as the sub sits between 44-50 Hz roughly...

That obviously isn't to say don't write in certain keys... It is a lesson however of the mindset of how the key you choose can influence the genre/venue where your music is heard... Club music is mastered very loud and the low end has to sit right or it'll just sound dull, mushy, or muted in a club...

Basically if you pick keys with fundamentals that low find a bass with a lot or harmonics so that you can filter out the subsonic stuff, and if you want to be crafty you can tuck a sine wave in an octave up, or add a sub osc an octave up, etc...

And for some perspective (and dorky fun ) a 37 Hz wave is 30 feet long!! Once you get into frequencies that low it's wise to start thinking of them as pressure waves... (technically it all is... But it's useful as a mindset...) I.e. the force that would throw you from a blast is a pressure wave...


----------



## Bman70 (Dec 31, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> There ya go... D1 on a correctly pitched instrument = 37 Hz.



Well that explains the hump below 50Hz! 
It must have a ton of higher harmonics because it's thick much further up the spectrum too. Now I just need to add something in to help it get through smaller consumer device speakers. I suppose I could look up the frequency response of some of those devices, and add an octave in around their "bass" end. I've heard of the sine wave trick, but I wonder would that really sound like bass? Can you duplicate the bass note and transpose it an octave up?


----------



## jcrosby (Dec 31, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> Well that explains the hump below 50Hz!
> It must have a ton of higher harmonics because it's thick much further up the spectrum too. Now I just need to add something in to help it get through smaller consumer device speakers. I suppose I could look up the frequency response of some of those devices, and add an octave in around their "bass" end. I've heard of the sine wave trick, but I wonder would that really sound like bass? Can you duplicate the bass note and transpose it an octave up?


Saturation does a great job at this... A good tube saturation plugin should create a 2nd harmonic, an octave above... Too much and it can start to alter the sound a little too much in which case you can use send and mix it in in parallel...

If you have a laptop you can listen on these are great... I actually check most of my mixes on a macbook for this reason... (Or get cheap, small computer speakers or a bluetooth speaker... Anything with a little 2 inch driver will do the job..)

Back to analyzers... A good way to see what some of the saturation plugins you have do is to play a sine wave into one and check what happens on a spectrum analyzer... Tube tends to have more even harmonics, tape tends to have more odd, but in reality most have a mix of both... Most people use a 100 Hz sine wave, but any low frequency sine you can hear is fine.... The harder you drive the saturation the more harmonics you'll see on the analyzer...


----------



## begbick (Apr 26, 2021)

OK! I love some of these replies but let me tell you what I do!

Sounds like you want to check to see if you are overusing compression or limiting. Overdoing it will of course cause unwanted pumping and distortion. LIFESAVERS for me have been Hornet’s Coherence Meter & Meterplug’s Dynameter. Both give you real time feedback on your peak to average levels and tell you if you need to back off your compression and limiting.

Dynameter = $99



Dynameter: Dynamics metering for AAX, AU and VST



Coherence Meter = $12

https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/coherence-meter/

I did a shootout, and they both alert me when I over-compress at the same time, just the target value is not the same. Like an 8 on Dynameter equates to a 6 on Coherence. Positive values above the target on both means the source could be compressed more, and negative values mean it is over-compressed and you gotta back off. Dynameter says it’s assessment is more accurate than simple coherence. The readout of Dynameter gives a visualizer that is instructive as well, and lets me know a bit more as I approach the target and over-compression. But if money is an issue, Coherence Meter is fine and is budget conscious.

They both take a 3-second snapshot of average loudness and measure it against momentary loudness. A finished track is said to be about 6-8 decibels difference between the 3 second average loudness and the momentary peaks of drum hits/transients.

I find that music for clubs, which is what I make, is 1 number negative (more compressed) than what either represent as “healthy” or optimal dynamic range for limited range music. This means I can set my own target in each by evaluating tracks I know sound good and are in the same genre.

If you are intentionally clipping for loudness, which can, maybe counterintuitively, create fewer audible artifacts than compression, SIR standard clip seems to be the most recommended, and is reasonably priced, but Kazrog K-Clip, $20 more, gives you a “wet only” listening option “delta mode” so you can hear exactly what distortion is resulting when clipping your tracks, so you can hear the wet only and ensure that the distortion you may be adding is pleasant or acceptable and not overkill. They also give you a few types of distortion which gives you options for the instrument or track.

Boz digital Big Clipper is a clipper and limiter, so you can, I think the ideal, I haven’t used it yet, is to clip your low end and limit your high end. This apparently is better than limiting low end, which can cause breathing. I only read about this though, I haven’t tried it myself though I bought it because it is/was on sale right now for thirty bucks.


----------

