# Patchbay and guitar pedals



## Just Johnny NZ (Sep 15, 2021)

Gidday from NZ. New comer here with a question I have been having issues finding answers to.

I don't use a computer with my setup.
Two Sampson S patchbays. One is for synths
The other is for Guitar pedals eg: x3 stymon.

Question 1: Do I use TS to TS snakes from guitar pedals to patchbay or can I get away with TRS snakes?
Question 2: What patch cables do I use to patch from the front of the guitar patchbay to front of the synth patchbay, TS or TRS?
Question 3: Will this setup work without DI box.

Thank you


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## Hansu Heya (Sep 16, 2021)

Hi! My first post here, too, so I am happy to be able to answer your questions:
First, you should know what you patchbay is: balanced or unbalanced? If you got an unbalanced patchbay, that is ok for guitar pedals and most synths, as these usually provide unbalanced connections as well. In case you get any noise, a balanced connection might cancel that out. In any way I recommend you googling up what balanced and unbalanced is.

1) So, assuming your patchbay is unbalanced, there is no reason to use any TRS cables. You can use them and they will work just as well as TS cables, however, they do not provide any benefit.

2) Synths are usually unbalanced as well, hence, TS as well. You might have to take a look at your synths manual. However, if your synths are balanced, you can also plug them into a unbalanced device via TS - you just have to learn what balanced really is, then you will understand ...

3) There are different designs of DI-boxes for different kinds of purposes. Mostly, DI-boxes are made to turn a unbalanced signal into a balanced one. But there are also other functions of those boxes like amplification and high/low impedance ... as long as all of your equipment is unbalanced, you will not need a DI-Box, but you might need amplifiers to get the correct signal strength for certain connections.

Read this to get an idea how to generally plug synths into guitar pedals:









Do Guitar Pedals Work With Keyboards & Synthesizers? | My New Microphone


Guitar effects pedals are an exciting and fun addition to any guitarist's rig. So much so that it can be keyboardists/synth players jealous (even with…




mynewmicrophone.com


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## Just Johnny NZ (Sep 16, 2021)

Hansu Heya said:


> Hi! My first post here, too, so I am happy to be able to answer your questions:
> First, you should know what you patchbay is: balanced or unbalanced? If you got an unbalanced patchbay, that is ok for guitar pedals and most synths, as these usually provide unbalanced connections as well. In case you get any noise, a balanced connection might cancel that out. In any way I recommend you googling up what balanced and unbalanced is.
> 
> 1) So, assuming your patchbay is unbalanced, there is no reason to use any TRS cables. You can use them and they will work just as well as TS cables, however, they do not provide any benefit.
> ...


Thanks for the info. The patchbay is balanced. Have bought Ts to Ts snake for pedals to the patchbay. I'm thinking I should have stayed with TRS to TRS. From what I've read there may be a wee bit of noise.

I've been using TRS for all my synths, all seems fine

Cheers for replying.


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## wst3 (Sep 17, 2021)

Sadly a TRS cable won't do much to reduce noise if all your other gozintas and gozoutas are single-ended. Save a couple bucks and just get TS cables.

If you are curious I can give you the three hour explanation<G>.


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## Just Johnny NZ (Sep 17, 2021)

wst3 said:


> Sadly a TRS cable won't do much to reduce noise if all your other gozintas and gozoutas are single-ended. Save a couple bucks and just get TS cables.
> 
> If you are curious I can give you the three hour explanation<G>.


Cheers, I have indeed bought and are waiting on TS snakes to arrive. Glad in a way. I was stressing that I had bought the wrong cables, wouldn't have any use for them. 

Now I'm using a mix of TS and TRS cables at the back of the bay, TS and TRS patch cables for the front of the bay patchbay wont do any harm?


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## wst3 (Sep 18, 2021)

If you are going to mix and match TS and TRS you just need to be careful that when grounding the ring you are not grounding a signal source. Most of the time that won't be a big deal, but there are output designs that will let out the magic smoke when grounded. Sadly I do not have a list, so the best idea is to be consistent within any specific signal path.

An alternative, which I have done many times, is to wire everything as if it were balanced. This eliminates the chance of grounding a signal by mistake, and can even improve the signal to noise ratio - a little anyway.


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## Just Johnny NZ (Sep 19, 2021)

wst3 said:


> If you are going to mix and match TS and TRS you just need to be careful that when grounding the ring you are not grounding a signal source. Most of the time that won't be a big deal, but there are output designs that will let out the magic smoke when grounded. Sadly I do not have a list, so the best idea is to be consistent within any specific signal path.
> 
> An alternative, which I have done many times, is to wire everything as if it were balanced. This eliminates the chance of grounding a signal by mistake, and can even improve the signal to noise ratio - a little anyway.


Thank you. Wire everything as if it were balanced...Does this mean using trs cables from guitar pedals to patchbay and use trs cables for patching at front of patchbay ?
So far everything Im using is trs apart from guitar pedals. Attached is a picture showing strymon pedals next to mixer. I'm in the experimenting stage.


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## wst3 (Sep 21, 2021)

This is not a topic that is readily handled in a forum I'm afraid. I will try to write up an outline of the process. You seem to have a pretty good grasp of things, so that should be enough.


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## chimuelo (Sep 22, 2021)

Just Johnny NZ said:


> Thank you. Wire everything as if it were balanced...Does this mean using trs cables from guitar pedals to patchbay and use trs cables for patching at front of patchbay ?
> So far everything Im using is trs apart from guitar pedals. Attached is a picture showing strymon pedals next to mixer. I'm in the experimenting stage.


I see the Strymon tri-fecta in the background..! 
I have Mobius, Timeline and Big Sky.
I also use the Deco for authentic Tape Flange.

My most recent is the Zelzah Dual Phaser.
I’ve wanted a MIDI Controlled Phaser forever and used DSP based plug ins of MXR 90, etc. Never quite sound as good as a well designed pedal, but then those great designs had no MIDI.

Zelzah not only has MIDI but USB A to USB C MIDI, and the editing and parameters available allow total automation in real time.

Using All Pass algorithms instead of delay lines it’s super clean, very powerful and sounds fantastic.

Strymon pedals are where Effects are at.



https://www.strymon.net/manuals/Zelzah_UserManual_RevA.pdf


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