# Samplemodeling SWAM Cello: what's special about it



## Fa (Aug 10, 2016)

After few weeks from the launch of the new VI (and few days from the last nice update), I was reading comments and listening to demos. 

I think one point has not been checked and discussed yet enough, and it's what makes this VI so special to me: the Physical Modeling approach, enabling a set of new features, like the mimic of real instrument behaviour in response to playing technics (bow/fingers position, direction, speed, pressure etc.).

I find this a bit challenging, but definitely stimulating and opening new options for MIDI programming, so I did some experiment: I take a video of a performance, and I try to use it as a source of inspiration, not only for the musical content (time, expression etc.) but for the technical gestures as well (looking to the pressure, position, bow changes, vibrato etc.).

Here you find a link to my video, with the sound track replaced by the MIDI rendition: it's a rough experiment, nothing perfect in sync or sound, but I think it's already showing some of the instrument potential features, almost impossible with traditional sample based VIs and libraries.



Well... if actually you find Yo Yo Ma original performance better than my rendition, I won't be offended  Any feedback is welcome by the way...


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## Arbee (Aug 10, 2016)

Nicely done! I think it's the consistent "creaminess", for want of a better word, that gives the SM cello away. Playability though, as with all SM instruments, is a huge plus.


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## Fa (Aug 10, 2016)

Arbee said:


> Nicely done! I think it's the consistent "creaminess", for want of a better word, that gives the SM cello away. Playability though, as with all SM instruments, is a huge plus.


Well, actually I agree. There's some "borders" to the achievable sound, (not surprisingly, we are just pioneering the physical modeling with actual hardware/software resources) but the palette of sounds combining IR and gestures is so wide and flexible, that the amount of solutions is amazing, and the responsibility of the quality is back into the hands of the user/performer (...good or bad you may consider it vs. a frozen perfection of a nice sample)


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## Quasar (Aug 10, 2016)

Nicely done. Did you use a MIDI keyboard, some other kind of controller, or write it out in a MIDI editor?


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## Fa (Aug 10, 2016)

Tugboat said:


> Nicely done. Did you use a MIDI keyboard, some other kind of controller, or write it out in a MIDI editor?


Thank you. Usually I play a piano keyboard controlling cc11 and cc1 with a Korg Nanopad. In this case I programmed it in Cubase, to get control over bow pressure, speed and some other special parameters of the SWAM-S engine.


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## PerryD (Aug 11, 2016)

That's really interesting, how an image can influence the perception of sound. I like to play all of the Samplemodeling stuff in real time, using a breath controller & keyboard. I'm still learning to use all the options available for the SWAM Cello. The new midi mapping features let you combine some things to squeeze a little more nuance out of a real time performance. For example, I have vibrato rate & depth both mapped to CC1 (modwheel). You can then set the threshold and range differently for each of those, so as I increase the depth, I actually have my vibrato speed up just a bit. You can even go in negative directions. Like Fa said, you can map other things like variable bow pressure and position for real time control as well. I posted this clip on another thread but it demonstrates how you can go from staccato to legato & portamento in real time without keyswitches.


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## Fa (Aug 12, 2016)

PerryD said:


> That's really interesting, how an image can influence the perception of sound.


ah ah...maybe.  Anyway in this case it was definitely interesting, because several of the sound choice and articulations programming were directly coming from observing the video.


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## brunodegazio (Mar 2, 2017)

In a similar vein, here is my version of the Prelude from Bach's G major suite for Cello, using the SWAM Cello. I've been playing this piece (on EWI) for years, but for this recording I took a few ideas on bowing and tempo from Yo Yo Ma's performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCicM6i59_I (here).

The SWAM Cello is a joy to play, but it has its limitations. In this project I noticed that the bow position control works, but is subtle. In particular, I would like to push the Sul Pont. end of it much farther, more like what Spitfire calls "super sul pont." I'm interested in whether the bow position changes in my recording (mostly between normal and sul pont.) are audible to listeners.


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2017)

PerryD said:


> That's really interesting, how an image can influence the perception of sound. I like to play all of the Samplemodeling stuff in real time, using a breath controller & keyboard. I'm still learning to use all the options available for the SWAM Cello. The new midi mapping features let you combine some things to squeeze a little more nuance out of a real time performance. For example, I have vibrato rate & depth both mapped to CC1 (modwheel). You can then set the threshold and range differently for each of those, so as I increase the depth, I actually have my vibrato speed up just a bit. You can even go in negative directions. Like Fa said, you can map other things like variable bow pressure and position for real time control as well. I posted this clip on another thread but it demonstrates how you can go from staccato to legato & portamento in real time without keyswitches.




Hi PerryD,

Your SM Solo Cello demo sounds very nice.

Q. How did set up the SWAM engine so you can change from Staccato to Legato & Portamento in real time without Keyswitches ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2017)

Hi Fa,

Very Nice Yo Yo Ma emulation using SM-Cello ! 

It would be nice to share some tips on some of the useful real time parameters to manipulate, and that add the most realism when automating the SWAM based SM Cello via physical controllers for CC's. 

Another important detail would be which reverb you use with SM Cello ? basically the effects and other sonic treatments that might improve its timbre/character ? 

Thanks for sharing,
Muziksculp


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2017)

Hi brunodegazio,

Very nice SM Cello demo of Bach's G Maj Cello Prelude.

Yes, I can hear the subtle Bow position changes in your performance, the keyword here is subtle, It would be nice if this can be pushed further to more of an extreme, maybe this could be possible via a future update from SampleModeling. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2017)

Hi,

For those who have all three SampleModeling Solo Strings : Cello, Viola, and Violin. Which one do you think sounds the closest to the real deal, (which one do you think they modeled best) ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Rob (Mar 2, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> For those who have all three SampleModeling Solo Strings : Cello, Viola, and Violin. Which one do you think sounds the closest to the real deal, (which one do you think they modeled best) ?
> 
> ...



of the three, violin is my favorite...


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2017)

Hi again,

I just wanted to point that using controllers is an important part of getting realistic realtime results when playing the SWAM engine.

Check this video :



Here is another one :


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2017)

Rob said:


> of the three, violin is my favorite...



Hi Rob,

Thanks for the feedback.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## brunodegazio (Mar 3, 2017)

Rob said:


> of the three, violin is my favorite...



I would agree with Rob that, timbre-wise, the Violin is closest to reality. The Cello is a close second, though. The Viola is a lot tougher to make sound good. Maybe that's just the nature of the viola though.


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## Vardaro (Apr 11, 2017)

One problem is that we violists don't agree as how a viola should sound; velvety or husky, brassy C & A strings, silky or strident, warm or nasal? My two violas have 15-3/4 inch bodies, but one is narrow with a "mezzo" quality, while the other is wide bodied with a more powerful plummy "contralto" tone. One for Mozart, the other for Brahms?

Maybe there isn't enough cello-like "sluggishness" in the SM viola's attacks,or insufficient inharmonicity or pitchbend in the harmonics. In a real viola, we are expecting a cello-ish quality from an instrument not much bigger than a violin.


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## Arbee (Apr 11, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> Hi again,
> 
> I just wanted to point that using controllers is an important part of getting realistic realtime results when playing the SWAM engine.


While these videos are great for demonstrating expression, I suggest these techniques would make many synth patches sound really organic. But, played "normally" across the full register I don't believe either of these quite cut it sonically as violins, sadly.


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## robgb (Apr 13, 2017)

Arbee said:


> While these videos are great for demonstrating expression, I suggest these techniques would make many synth patches sound really organic. But, played "normally" across the full register I don't believe either of these quite cut it sonically as violins, sadly.


Yet, in a blind test done a few months ago, most here thought the SM violin was the real thing... funny how a lack of knowledge (or just the opposite) can color your perception.


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## robgb (Apr 13, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> Q. How did set up the SWAM engine so you can change from Staccato to Legato & Portamento in real time without Keyswitches ?


There is no setting up. SWAM strings play legato when you play legato, play portamento when you use less velocity, and play staccato when you play staccato. That's why they're such a joy to play.


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## muziksculp (Apr 13, 2017)

robgb said:


> There is no setting up. SWAM strings play legato when you play legato, play portamento when you use less velocity, and play staccato when you play staccato. That's why they're such a joy to play.



Thanks for the feedback. 

I wonder if SampleModeling are working on further improving their SWAM engine based instruments, and how likely is it that we will see improvements to their current SWAM based Solo Strings Instruments in the future ? or are they all done with the development/improvement of the SWAM engine ? 

Just curious to know if they have officially stated that they are working on improving the current solo SWAM based instruments ? 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Lotias (Apr 13, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I wonder if SampleModeling are working on further improving their SWAM engine based instruments, and how likely is it that we will see improvements to their current SWAM based Solo Strings Instruments in the future ? or are they all done with the development/improvement of the SWAM engine ?
> 
> ...


They've been generally improving the sound of every solo string when the release a new one, so it's reasonable to expect there may be another update when the contrabass comes out.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Aug 16, 2018)

would SWAM instruments benefit from an XY controller with velocity and aftertouch?

like the Roli Lightpad Block M?


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## eli0s (Aug 17, 2018)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> would SWAM instruments benefit from an XY controller with velocity and aftertouch?
> 
> like the Roli Lightpad Block M?


I have the seaboard block and all of the swam instruments are responding very well to it. You can immediately produce more life like results that otherwise would have required great performing skills with a normal keyboard, or with daw programming.


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## lastmessiah (Aug 17, 2018)

I play the SWAM Violin with a Rise 49 and a Lightpad Block, works like a dream but you do need to map expressions beforehand.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Aug 17, 2018)

eli0s said:


> I have the seaboard block and all of the swam instruments are responding very well to it. You can immediately produce more life like results that otherwise would have required great performing skills with a normal keyboard, or with daw programming.





lastmessiah said:


> I play the SWAM Violin with a Rise 49 and a Lightpad Block, works like a dream but you do need to map expressions beforehand.



may be worth grabbing the Violin to test with the Block.

$360 for the bundle is tempting.

this and VSS could be my next chamber setup.

hmmm. 

darn you VI-C.


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## Audio Motion (Sep 21, 2018)

Since this thread got reactivated I wanted to add to the discussion about the importance of powerful midi controllers (particularly for SWAM instruments). A few months ago I released the violin bow controller App Pen2Bow which allows you to capture true bow motion using the Apple Pencil on the iPad. I created youtube videos for all SWAM string instruments for those who might be interested in seeing and hearing it in action. Here is the link for the SWAM Cello:


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## voxtemperamental (Feb 2, 2021)

why is everybody referring to SWAM instruments as being from sample Modeling when they are created by Audio Modeling


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## Ben H (Feb 2, 2021)

voxtemperamental said:


> why is everybody referring to SWAM instruments as being from sample Modeling when they are created by Audio Modeling


Because originally Sample Modeling and Audio Modeling were business partners, with Sample Modeling exclusively distributing/selling Audio Modeling products under the "Sample Modeling" label.

And, you've dug up a 4 year old thread.


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## voxtemperamental (Feb 2, 2021)

Ben H said:


> Because originally Sample Modeling and Audio Modeling were business partners, with Sample Modeling exclusively distributing/selling Audio Modeling products under the "Sample Modeling" label.
> 
> And, you've dug up a 4 year old thread.


thanks for the clarification
I was a bit confused
cheers


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## Fleer (Feb 2, 2021)

These are also available as an add-on for GeoShred on the iPad. Already got the saxophone and it’s pretty, pretty good:


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