# Where to build a Composer Cave? (geography)



## PeterN (Aug 21, 2020)

So what is happening to the cities. People fleeing Paris, fleeing New York, now we see same about California - even London start to show signs. The cities are becoming unliveable and gradually taken over by urine, mobs and zombies. 

Personally, having the seeds of a prophet, I have prepared for this already 5 years. First I went allover globe (mostly Asia) to search for a "secret base", but was pretty much unable to find one. I was sweating in Spice Islands and hated every second due to heat and moist, I did enjoy some parts of Japan but it was too expensive for a base, I went to Nias Island and ended up in malaria season etc. Sulawesi Highlands, Bhutan and Sikkim might be only places that got my green light. But most of those are damn unconvenient and Bhutan is impossible unless you marry there. So I got a small house in far away Spanish countryside and one for covid escape (as rent) in North Europe seaside. And I fukin love it, theres no way I go back to cities anymore. 

Where do you recommend a composer base for artists who will soon have to flee the cities? Ive heard Oklahoma is good. Ive heard Wales countryside is nice. Ive heard Malta is good. Ive heard Ecuador and Costa Rica are great. Some say Texas. I heard of a Norwegian who moved to Svalbard (you cant go much further than that). One guy went to Iceland and he said he will stay. Alaska?

Anything you would recommend as a composer cave now when city people need to start to prepare soon? Prices are still low, but the trend will change fast.


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## d.healey (Aug 21, 2020)

If everyone's leaving the city then I'd go to the city


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## tf-drone (Aug 21, 2020)

Hi,

a cave would be most inconvenient. No lights, no air flow, no fire protection, no view of nature. I prefer the house I am currently living in: very big windows everywhere, solar panels on the roof, orchids and cacti inside, a garden outside, 5 min by car to the next grocery store, 2 min by foot into the forest. Climate could be better here, but that is the thing you have to do for money.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Aug 21, 2020)

Malta is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, so I'd scratch that off my list (unless a favorable tax system outweighs lots of people and a high level of corruption.)
I guess the countryside of any reasonably well functioning country where you like the climate and can get a decent internet connection...


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## Collywobbles (Aug 21, 2020)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> country where you like the climate and can get a decent internet connection...



Well that rules out Australia!


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## PeterN (Aug 21, 2020)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Malta is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, so I'd scratch that off my list (unless a favorable tax system outweighs lots of people and a high level of corruption.)
> I guess the countryside of any reasonably well functioning country where you like the climate and can get a decent internet connection...



Good point, I didnt check this more closely. Someone I met said she moved there for casino industry and said many people had "escaped there". I read an article about it too that theres a huge expat scene building up. But for a composers cave maybe Malta is not the right place.

Since you have Scandinavian name, let me assume you are one. I did check about Svalbarg and had it as option for excape base. Huge expat scene there too. Being a composer on Svalbard, I dont think they have one fukin composer there. Svalbard cannot be scratched completely from the list, its just Norway is extremely expensive. Too expensive. And you cannot flip a hammock in Svalbard, if the ice dont get you the polar bear will.


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## Henu (Aug 21, 2020)

Come to Finland, we have plenty of space. And most of the bears stay within Russian borders anyway!


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## PeterN (Aug 21, 2020)

tf-drone said:


> Hi,
> 
> a cave would be most inconvenient. No lights, no air flow, no fire protection, no view of nature. I prefer the house I am currently living in: very big windows everywhere, solar panels on the roof, orchids and cacti inside, a garden outside, 5 min by car to the next grocery store, 2 min by foot into the forest. Climate could be better here, but that is the thing you have to do for money.



Check the cave houses in Andalucia. They have electricity, water, heating etc. and are right out in the nature. Theres tons of artists who have moved into one of those caves. Used to be gypsies who lived in them, but they are fab now, even middle class found them. And there are still gypsies doing flamenco in every cave village. You can get them from a few thousand onward. Now I didnt settle in an actual cave myself, but it was very near. I went to check many. Nothing wrong with them. Apologies, point is not to put myself here in front, point is, those caves are damn cool. Excellent for an artist. And excellent choice for an artist fleeing the urine, zombies and mobs that are infesting cities. The decadence, that will get much worse.


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## ptram (Aug 21, 2020)

The end of the Roman civilization was characterized by rich and middle-class people escaping from the city and going in the country villas and the smaller communities. Unfortunately, the decadence sooner or later reached them also.

Paolo


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## MusiquedeReve (Aug 21, 2020)

d.healey said:


> If everyone's leaving the city then I'd go to the city


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## Rasoul Morteza (Aug 21, 2020)

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

- Rick James


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## PeterN (Aug 21, 2020)

ptram said:


> The end of the Roman civilization was characterized by rich and middle-class people escaping from the city and going in the country villas and the smaller communities. Unfortunately, the decadence sooner or later reached them also.
> 
> Paolo



Are you sure about that? History has a lot of examples of people fleeing destruction and decadence successfully.

But is Rome and exception? Did the Roman decadence reach caves from Cappadocia to Andalucia? Or are you just guessing? Please elaborate futher if you have the insight here.

Im not completely denying it, of course. We know during Stalins purge and Maos purges - and we are talking about huge countries - they sent their fanatics to every single corner and during worst times of famine and chaos. There was no corner of salvation then, no mountain top, no valley, no forest, unless you had escaped prior. Some did, successfully, of course.


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## Pier (Aug 25, 2020)

I'm from Spain so I know the caves you're talking about!

Other than the zombies you have to consider climate change too. So far it hasn't affected humanity much (we just saw two hurricanes in the Atlantic for the first time) but that will most likely change during this decade.

My wife and I are considering moving to anywhere in the world in the next couple of years so we've been examining many countries.

We've been living 11 years in Mexico in many places and I know the tropics are just not for me. We lived 2 years in Cancún and I was miserable every day because of humidity, heat, and other factors. Even in other parts of Mexico the sun is just too strong for me and I'm forced to live like a vampire. I mean, more vampire than usual.

Our choices are basically Europe, Canada, or New Zealand.

Land is super cheap in Canada. The problem is that, other than the US, everything is far away. And we have zero interest in traveling to the US.

Europe is expensive, but my family is there, and every other country is almost around the corner. Governments generally seem to respect human life more than many other countries. My wife would like to go to Northern Spain or Souther France, but I'd prefer Estonia (for the tech industry), or some Scandinavian country. We've also considered Ireland, Switzerland, and Luxembourg.

New Zealand seems like a perfect place to live. Beautiful, peaceful, decent government, but again, too far from anywhere else. We have 2 dogs and we panic with the idea of flying all the way there with them.


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## jononotbono (Aug 25, 2020)

Go to the Isle of Wight. There’s a place for you in civilisation there now I’ve left.


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## PeterN (Aug 26, 2020)

Pier said:


> I'm from Spain so I know the caves you're talking about!
> 
> Other than the zombies you have to consider climate change too. So far it hasn't affected humanity much (we just saw two hurricanes in the Atlantic for the first time) but that will most likely change during this decade.
> 
> ...



How is the safety in Mexico, we dont read so many good news from there these days. I bet Cancun has its issues, most of those commercial tourist places do. Its years, Ive been there, we took bus to Belize City and I wonder if you can do that anymore without being robbed. Belize City was spooky.

The heat and humidity. I had this plan to move to Spice Islands, buy a house there, then a myna bird and a cockatiel, compose music with them, marry a local kind hearted woman and live happily there the rest of the life. Just when landed at airport, you felt the moisture and heat, it took 5 minutes and all clothes were soaked in sweat. Basically you knew after 5 minutes after landing, this will idea will not work out  Its impossible, even with air condition 24-7, you are outside 5 minutes and you are done. Like Borneo, "the white mans graveyard" thats what the British called it. Theres a reason they called it like that. Only place Ive sleepwalked in, going down the stairs sleepwalking, sure it was even the soul planning escape.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 26, 2020)

PeterN said:


> The cities are becoming unliveable and gradually taken over by urine, mobs and zombies.





ptram said:


> The end of the Roman civilization was characterized by rich and middle-class people escaping from the city and going in the country villas and the smaller communities. Unfortunately, the decadence sooner or later reached them also.
> 
> Paolo



Yes, yes, our beautiful city sucks. Please stay the hell away.

- Decadent Zombie/Mob Member/Gallant Pisser


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## PeterN (Aug 26, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Yes, yes, our beautiful city sucks. Please stay the hell away.
> 
> - Decadent Zombie/Mob Member/Gallant Pisser



I was working whole day, drag, but got a good laugh now late night. Were you told before you have a sublime gift of a comedian? Thanks man, a good laugh. :D


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## method1 (Aug 26, 2020)

Some good news, with the imminent collapse of civilisation, you won't need to network or hustle for work, so just pick a spot you enjoy


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## Pier (Aug 26, 2020)

PeterN said:


> How is the safety in Mexico



Everyone asks me that. I've been here 11 years. I've lived in a couple of different states. I've travelled to most states either for work or pleasure. I've never been robbed, assaulted, or even felt unsafe. I've never even seen violence first hand or know someone that has. I don't know maybe I'm extremely lucky but considering I'm tall, blond, blue eyes, I look like a tourist and I never pass unnoticed.

We left Cancún in November 2018 and crime was getting a bit out of hand. Mostly shooting between gangs (like in most parts of Mexico) but also I heard of some small restaurants being robbed. We never felt unsafe there.

There are many horrible stories coming from Mexico, no doubt, but this is not Somalia. It's not a war zone. We have Amazon, fiber internet, etc.


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## Gerbil (Aug 26, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Go to the Isle of Wight. There’s a place for you in civilisation there now I’ve left.


I have really good memories of the Isle of Wight. I used to gig in Shanklin and Sandown years ago as a student to make a bit of money in the summer. Relaxing, carefree times.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 26, 2020)

I've been watching a few Youtubers who live on boats and sail around the world. Mostly they have some access to the Internet. Depending upon the size of your boat, you might have room for a very small studio. As long as you don't have any guests or kids or anything that needs space, like extra food. You will need a lot of solar panels to support the electricity you'll need.

You do need to know how to sail and do boat repairs. And it really helps if you can swim. And catch fish. And gut them. Because, you know, eating is good. 

Other than that, it looks like fun. And I don't think Zombies swim. Though sharks do.... :emoji_shark:


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## jononotbono (Aug 26, 2020)

Gerbil said:


> I have really good memories of the Isle of Wight. I used to gig in Shanklin and Sandown years ago as a student to make a bit of money in the summer. Relaxing, carefree times.



I used to play many a gig on the island. It’s definitely a place like none other. Except if you have any ambition to work in film and tv you really need to fly that nest. It’s a very scenic and quiet place. Definitely a close knit community. Some might say a trap and many never leave because it’s so chilled out and carefree as you say.

I have a house in Newport and today I decided I’m going back in December till mid Feb and can’t wait! Will be nice seeing family and friends after being away and working pretty much every day and night since leaving. 

Things in NY are getting savage.


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## PeterN (Aug 27, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Yes, yes, our beautiful city sucks. Please stay the hell away.
> 
> - Decadent Zombie/Mob Member/Gallant Pisser



Ironically saw today in news people fleeing Cali to Arizona in hordes. 

You are not running around there naked or something, Nick?


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## el-bo (Aug 27, 2020)

PeterN said:


> urine, mobs and zombies.



Sounds like a great weekend 

Getting overwhelmed by city life, also. However, it wasn't long ago that I'd had enough of the quiet, rural backwaters. Ideally, I'd have one foot in the mountains, and t'other in the sea. And somewhere in the middle would be a place where I could observe (And occasionally interact with) other humans, doing life.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 27, 2020)

PeterN said:


> Ironically saw today in news people fleeing Cali to Arizona in hordes.
> 
> You are not running around there naked or something, Nick?



Running around?!


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## Jeremy Gillam (Aug 28, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I've been watching a few Youtubers who live on boats and sail around the world. Mostly they have some access to the Internet. Depending upon the size of your boat, you might have room for a very small studio. As long as you don't have any guests or kids or anything that needs space, like extra food. You will need a lot of solar panels to support the electricity you'll need.
> 
> You do need to know how to sail and do boat repairs. And it really helps if you can swim. And catch fish. And gut them. Because, you know, eating is good.
> 
> Other than that, it looks like fun. And I don't think Zombies swim. Though sharks do.... :emoji_shark:


I've been on a massive Sailing La Vagabonde YouTube binge -- have you seen that channel? I was thinking a yacht studio might be cool but I think I would spend all my time trying to prevent my boat from sinking and would never actually make any music. It's hard enough as it is!


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## PeterN (Aug 28, 2020)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> I've been on a massive Sailing La Vagabonde YouTube binge -- have you seen that channel? I was thinking a yacht studio might be cool but I think I would spend all my time trying to prevent my boat from sinking and would never actually make any music. It's hard enough as it is!



Hi Jeremy. Is that your channel, or are you just recommending it?

Ive been watching people building off grid houses, self sufficient as possible, and I got myself some chickens, fishing stuff, etc. and I cant imagine having sheeps and horses too. Having a handful chickens is already a work. I care about them, so maybe if you just throw them sonewhere its not a big deal, but they give eggs every day so they deserve a good life. I wake up every morning when they start to "cry" to get out and eat bugs. Heart breakening!


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## chimuelo (Aug 28, 2020)

We play on mobile stages where the trailer unfolds, lights already on trusses.

These look really nice because I get bored in the same town over and over.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 28, 2020)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> I've been on a massive Sailing La Vagabonde YouTube binge -- have you seen that channel? I was thinking a yacht studio might be cool but I think I would spend all my time trying to prevent my boat from sinking and would never actually make any music. It's hard enough as it is!


They are one of the ones I watch. Elayna has recorded her own music on board, but I get the impression it isn't easy. I think if you are working with virtual instruments and not needing quiet to record vocals or room to set up a mic for guitar and singing, it would be much easier.


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## PeterN (Aug 28, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> We play on mobile stages where the trailer unfolds, lights already on trusses.
> 
> These look really nice because I get bored in the same town over and over.




Whatever that is, I can recognise many symbols. The base is Tibetan and they have mixed Indonesia in it too. I didnt check the channel, but I guess its a contemporary architect who took influence from Asia. But why would he have a dorje, bell, even a tibetan symbol on the bookshelf, bcs that makes it more personal - maybe its Richard Gere.

Edit: Re checked it. It must be a family from Bhutan.


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## Gingerbread (Aug 28, 2020)

I definitely go for Welsh countryside, if I could. Which I can't.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Aug 28, 2020)

PeterN said:


> Hi Jeremy. Is that your channel, or are you just recommending it?
> 
> Ive been watching people building off grid houses, self sufficient as possible, and I got myself some chickens, fishing stuff, etc. and I cant imagine having sheeps and horses too. Having a handful chickens is already a work. I care about them, so maybe if you just throw them sonewhere its not a big deal, but they give eggs every day so they deserve a good life. I wake up every morning when they start to "cry" to get out and eat bugs. Heart breakening!


Just a channel I enjoy (and dzilizzi too!)


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## chimuelo (Aug 28, 2020)

PeterN said:


> Whatever that is, I can recognise many symbols. The base is Tibetan and they have mixed Indonesia in it too. I didnt check the channel, but I guess its a contemporary architect who took influence from Asia. But why would he have a dorje, bell, even a tibetan symbol on the bookshelf, bcs that makes it more personal - maybe its Richard Gere.
> 
> Edit: Re checked it. It must be a family from Bhutan.



There’s tons of trailers you attach to a truck that unfold into whatever you want.

You can go to the Homebliss Site and see dozens of stages and movable homes that can be set up in minutes to what ever location you like.
Im looking at used ones because I’m leaving my house to my son and I’m heading to the Sierra Nevada.

Its that or continue being tortured by traffic, hordes of screaming infants and hurdling over baby gates and mine fields of Rottweiler turds.

The models I want unfold into a 24 x 48 A Frame with a Redwood bark finish, and a 20 x 24 garage/rehearsal space.

Already rebuilt a Ford 3/4 ton F250, and a 19.99 per day UHaul Truck can drag the Garage.

You’ll find me tucked away in the Redwoods, then driving to Tahoe or Reno is a 30 minute drive. Solar powered, fresh spring water, etc.

After decades of children I want some privacy.
Like in the Jules Verne movie 20,000 Leagues Beneath the Sea, Captain Nemo was asked why he never shared his discoveries with mankind, he replied “Contact with my own species has always been disappointing.”


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## PeterN (Aug 28, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> There’s tons of trailers you attach to a truck that unfold into whatever you want.
> 
> You can go to the Homebliss Site and see dozens of stages and movable homes that can be set up in minutes to what ever location you like.
> Im looking at used ones because I’m leaving my house to my son and I’m heading to the Sierra Nevada.
> ...



Every dignified man should retire near the stormy sea (not the beach) or in the misty mountains.


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## PeterN (Aug 28, 2020)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> Just a channel I enjoy (and dzilizzi too!)



Yea, I got it after I watched a clip. They had like a million or more subscribers too. I saw the clip when they were in a storm. Yea, good entertainment. Not really a sailing holiday.


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## PeterN (Sep 18, 2020)

Shapiro announced yesterday leaving California. Joe Rogan leaving.

Its one after another.

Its leaking now, and hole getting bigger....heard same about New York.

Quoting Shapiro: "If you have the means to get out, you are going to get out."


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