# Anyone else feel EW Hollywood series should be re-scripted?



## feck (Jan 3, 2014)

So in the wake of several killer new orchestral sampling projects (Spitfire, CineSamples, Orchestral Tools, etc.) I have found that, while I love the sound of EW Hollywood Strings, it's lack of adapting to playing style keeps me from using it much these days. Which is a shame, as the samples really are fantastic sounding in my opinion. I know historically EW doesn't revamp their products but rather do new sampling endeavors, BUT I can't help but think that if they took the whole existing library and re-scripted it to intelligently adapt (at least to some degree) to the player and combined many of the myriad cryptic articulations into multi-scripts, it could seriously contend with all of the projects which came after it, and seem to be more commonplace amongst us composers. Jay, any idea if this sort of thing may be considered? Auto legato, auto portamento/glissando, auto staccato, intonation blurring along with adaptive legato transitions based on speed of playing - all great things which have come about in recent libraries but are absent in HW (at least in my experience).


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 3, 2014)

Scott I doubt it. I think that after HOP is released Doug, is done with orchestral stuff and on to the pop/rock stuff with the big times guys he has made deals with.


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## feck (Jan 3, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Scott I doubt it. I think that after HOP is released Doug, is done with orchestral stuff and on to the pop/rock stuff with the big times guys he has made deals with.


Thanks for the quick answer Jay!


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## Dan Mott (Jan 3, 2014)

The short notes should be re scripted in HS. 

Sloppy.

Uneven dynamics.

Tedious.

Other than that. Everything seems fine.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 3, 2014)

The legatos in HS Silver react very strangely for me. Jay mentioned there might be some new patches for it, so we'll see. I love the warmth and bloom of the samples.


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## pkm (Jan 3, 2014)

The tails are all abruptly cut off on all short notes in HS Silver (listen to the spiccato basses especially). And you simply cannot play steady eighth notes at a medium tempo with the legatos. So yes! I submitted a ticket about the short notes and they said they would put out an update.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 3, 2014)

It has been verified that there are issues in Silver that are not in Platinum and Gold and an update IS coming.


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## pkm (Jan 3, 2014)

Great to hear. Thanks Jay.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 3, 2014)

Great to hear- and even though I already know the answer, might there be a time frame?


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## Jeffrey Peterson (Jan 4, 2014)

feck @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> So in the wake of several killer new orchestral sampling projects (Spitfire, CineSamples, Orchestral Tools, etc.) I have found that, while I love the sound of EW Hollywood Strings, it's lack of adapting to playing style keeps me from using it much these days. Which is a shame, as the samples really are fantastic sounding in my opinion. I know historically EW doesn't revamp their products but rather do new sampling endeavors, BUT I can't help but think that if they took the whole existing library and re-scripted it to intelligently adapt (at least to some degree) to the player and combined many of the myriad cryptic articulations into multi-scripts, it could seriously contend with all of the projects which came after it, and seem to be more commonplace amongst us composers. Jay, any idea if this sort of thing may be considered? Auto legato, auto portamento/glissando, auto staccato, intonation blurring along with adaptive legato transitions based on speed of playing - all great things which have come about in recent libraries but are absent in HW (at least in my experience).



Cinebrass came before Hollywood Brass I believe...not 100% sure but they were close.

LASS was before EWHS. Both are fantastic. Heck have you heard what Alex Pfeffer can do with Symphobia? EWHS legatos are top notch silk. Admittedly I don't use the short articulations in EWHS.

EW was top of the top when EWHS and EWHB came out. Then because of PLAY they started getting a bad rep on here. PLAY works great for me inside of VE PRO (knock on wood), and they are two wonderful libraries no doubt.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 4, 2014)

Jeffrey Peterson @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> LASS was before EWHS. Both are fantastic. Heck have you heard what Alex Pfeffer can do with Symphobia? EWHS legatos are top notch silk. Admittedly I don't use the short articulations in EWHS.



I'm glad HS legatos are " top notch silk" for you, truly. I'm going to assume you don't have Silver, because if you're writing any kind of music at even medium tempos with HS Silver, I assure you it's not the case.


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## Blakus (Jan 4, 2014)

I find HS legato great. But there are a couple of legato inconsistencies across the Silver edition patches. High velocities give a faster transition usually, but Violas and 2nd Violins velocity seems to be inverted (high velocity = slower transition). This confused the crap out of me until I figured it out. Hope that helps a little.


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## Jeffrey Peterson (Jan 4, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> Jeffrey Peterson @ Sat Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > LASS was before EWHS. Both are fantastic. Heck have you heard what Alex Pfeffer can do with Symphobia? EWHS legatos are top notch silk. Admittedly I don't use the short articulations in EWHS.
> ...



No, I'm afraid I have Gold. That is a shame about silver, I've never had the opportunity to test it out. However it might be what Blakus said with the inverted velocities. That would be annoying.


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## StatKsn (Jan 4, 2014)

I would love to see real divisi (HS uses mono L/mono R close-mic samples, which aren't sounding half good) but I don't think it's going to happen, then. Other than that it is a fantastic sounding library.

And no, Play had ominous rep since the beginning to inception of Play 3. :wink:


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## Jeffrey Peterson (Jan 4, 2014)

Blakus @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> I find HS legato great. But there are a couple of legato inconsistencies across the Silver edition patches. High velocities give a faster transition usually, but Violas and 2nd Violins velocity seems to be inverted (high velocity = slower transition). This confused the crap out of me until I figured it out. Hope that helps a little.



Not to derail the thread for a moment but Blakus, I have your exact same setup, all except Windows Ultimate. I have Windows 7 Pro.

Kontakt 5.3 inside VE PRO 5, Cubase 7.5 (64bit), Windows 7 Ultimate, Intel Core i7 3770k @3.9GHz, 32GB RAM


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## snattack (Jan 4, 2014)

I would pay good money for a rescripted modernized version of HS. Currently I don't use it at all, but the sound of HS is still fantastic.


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## jamwerks (Jan 4, 2014)

Apparently an update of HOW is in the works...


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 4, 2014)

The reason I started the infamous poll about people's views on EW returning to Kontakt was the intense frustration of hearing such wonderful, wonderful samples in a format that doesn't do them justice. I wrote 3 years ago that if Play became sufficiently advanced and closed the gap with Kontakt I'd be a happy man, but progress seems so slow I've sort of given up believing it might.

The idea of these hundreds of similar but slightly different patches seems so antiquated now when practically every other developer has advanced the scripting to allow for more playability and / or customisation. But EW don't have any track record of revisiting products, barring maintenance updates, which is another factor affecting my purchasing decisions.

I know Jay will roll his eyes at me posting on this subject yet again, but it genuinely is a backhanded compliment - if the samples weren't as good as they clearly are, I simply wouldn't care. But I do care.

(Jay - no need to post your disapproval of this post - I know!)


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## Christof (Jan 4, 2014)

I would LOVE to be able to create my own keyswitches in HS, or at least have more articulations in one instance like they did in QLSO, it is a shame to be forced to use about 4 tracks with different articulations for just one instrument group.
Or did I miss something?
The sound is awesome, no doubt.


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## SymphonicSamples (Jan 4, 2014)

I would also happily pay for a revised version of HS , which I still believe is a wonderful library as is , it's just out of all the developers EW is the one that's had the least serious advancements to an existing product , based on it's time out in the wild in comparison . You can achieve some amazing things with it , it's just the work around required sometimes can be time consuming , like the timing in certain patches at fast tempos is not so reliable . Don't get me wrong , I still love and use it , but to be honest one only sense's the passion has long left the Hollywood building ....


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## StatKsn (Jan 4, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> The reason I started the infamous poll about people's views on EW returning to Kontakt was the intense frustration of hearing such wonderful, wonderful samples in a format that doesn't do them justice. I wrote 3 years ago that if Play became sufficiently advanced and closed the gap with Kontakt I'd be a happy man, but progress seems so slow I've sort of given up believing it might.
> 
> The idea of these hundreds of similar but slightly different patches seems so antiquated now when practically every other developer has advanced the scripting to allow for more playability and / or customisation. But EW don't have any track record of revisiting products, barring maintenance updates, which is another factor affecting my purchasing decisions.
> 
> ...



Of course there were some improvements in Play 4, but the development of Play has been dragged like a dead-beat cow. Their QA has been bad and showing no signs of improvement since 2008. No I won't say they should go back to Kontakt. However, I am slowly changing my state from "like it but I want more" to "meh".

My heart danced when I saw/hear HS and HB. It's just not anymore, I am not feeling the passion nor don't feel they are serious about developing Play. Sigh.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 4, 2014)

Christof @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> I would LOVE to be able to create my own keyswitches in HS, or at least have more articulations in one instance like they did in QLSO, it is a shame to be forced to use about 4 tracks with different articulations for just one instrument group.
> Or did I miss something?
> The sound is awesome, no doubt.



I agree, but there are Expression Maps in Cubase that allow this and apparently a product called TransMidifier does as well.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Great to hear- and even though I already know the answer, might there be a time frame?



My impression is, sooner rather than later.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> Christof @ Sat Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > I would LOVE to be able to create my own keyswitches in HS, or at least have more articulations in one instance like they did in QLSO, it is a shame to be forced to use about 4 tracks with different articulations for just one instrument group.
> ...



With Logic Pro I use Peter Schwartz's SkiSwithcer Environment layer and I can happily keyswitch or program change through articulations at will with the Hollywood Series.


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## Lawson. (Jan 4, 2014)

I love the Hollywood series. Sometimes it can be a little annoying not to have auto-legato, but I like being able to fully customize it (splicing every. single. note.), which can produce some verrrrrryyy nice end results.


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## gsilbers (Jan 4, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sat Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > Christof @ Sat Jan 04 said:
> ...



i have seen keyswitcher scripts for logic x midi plugin around the web. is that about the same?

i was going to get this one http://www.audiogrocery.com/ag_ch_sw.htm but seems the guy wants to charge and make a PRO version.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

gsilbers @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sat Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > NYC Composer @ Sat Jan 04 said:
> ...



Ivan's approach is different than Peter's. Ivan's is a script that you add to each LP X instrument track while Perter's is in the Environment and therefore applies to all tracks. I prefer the latter.

Peter originally had his as "Donation-ware" but as this is the Age of Entitlement, only a couple of people did so, so he pulled it.

He is going to allow me to give it to my Logic clients when I help them with their setups, but there WILL be a fee for it, at my insistence, probably $25.

Hard work and knowledge should be compensated for IMHO.


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## SoundTravels (Jan 4, 2014)

I've seriously thought about recording some of the notes as WAVs and rescripting it in Kontakt myself. It kills me that I spent so much $ on Platinum back in the day, and now it just sits on my hard drive gathering dust...

The fact that the ends of notes and release tails are all quickly cut off is kind of a deal-breaker for me though, and part of what makes it sound so dated to my ears... Don't know why they did that! I guess to save drive space. But, yes, the raw sound was really close to a great actual Hollywood string sound.


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## KingIdiot (Jan 4, 2014)

SoundTravels @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> I've seriously thought about recording some of the notes as WAVs and rescripting it in Kontakt myself. It kills me that I spent so much $ on Platinum back in the day, and now it just sits on my hard drive gathering dust...
> 
> The fact that the ends of notes and release tails are all quickly cut off is kind of a deal-breaker for me though, and part of what makes it sound so dated to my ears... Don't know why they did that! I guess to save drive space. But, yes, the raw sound was really close to a great actual Hollywood string sound.



it sucks that a format is so closed that people feel they have to put it on a shelf because it can't be used anymore. I say resample it for yourself. Find some use for all the energy those players put into playing single notes those weeks. Validate that boring work somehow (and your money too )

truth is it's not that hard to do. Yes it's not perfect duplicate of the instrument, but neither is the sample of the actual instrument(s). You own it. Make use of it if you like it, and want to make it better.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

This is not a shot across anyone's bow; this is not meant to be insulting to anyone here; this is not because I am a part time EW employee. 

Every time I sit down to compose I am using HS and usually HB and HOW. Since HS is the first of the three that was released, I will specifically address it. I compose to the library's strengths and avoid its weaknesses, as I do with every library I have ever owned and also every live player I have written for. I produce parts that I think sound great and so far, so have my clients.

You may prefer another library's sound. You may prefer another library's workflow. You may like having the greater level of control that a Kontakt library gives you .I have zero problem with any of that.

But I am going to make a blanket assertion:: if you cannot produce really lovely results with HS Diamond, you cannot produce really lovely results with any strings library.


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## guydoingmusic (Jan 4, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> But I am going to make a blanket assertion:: if you cannot produce really lovely results with HS Diamond, you cannot produce really lovely results with any strings library.



+1 - Sometimes... it isn't the tool, but rather the person using the tool. Same with a paintbrush. Just saying! :wink:


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## 667 (Jan 4, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Scott I doubt it. I think that after HOP is released Doug, is done with orchestral stuff and on to the pop/rock stuff with the big times guys he has made deals with.


What about EW's commitment to making the Hollywood Series a "living library"?
http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3650671

I've reported several patch programming bugs but it seems EW doesn't care enough about their flagship "living library" to fix them. Last update to HS diamond was over 2 years ago (November 2011!!!). Yes it's mostly usable but mostly usable is not acceptable when you keep having to track down things that don't quite sound right only to find it's another EW patch bug.

HS could be much much better than it is in terms of playability. It's sort of the last big library to use limited single-use patches instead of making them more dynamic/expressive in response to playing input. If EW was being honest about their commitment to the Hollywood series being "living" then this would be on the agenda along with bug fixes.

Probably there is just too much competition in this space to justify the cost of fixing the existing bugs or adding any enhancements.


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## Dan Mott (Jan 4, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> This is not a shot across anyone's bow; this is not meant to be insulting to anyone here; this is not because I am a part time EW employee.
> 
> Every time I sit down to compose I amusing HS and usually HB and HOW. Since HS is the first of the three that was released, I will specifically address it. I compose to the library's strengths and avoid its weaknesses, as I do with every library I have ever owned and also every live player I have written for. I reproduce part that I think sound great and so far, so have my clients.
> 
> ...



I sort of agree and sort of disagree.

HS could be better and that's what is hard to accept. What about more KS patches? What about changing the big patches so that the dynamics are controlled by CC1, instead of CC1 being vibrato? Who would want vibrato on CC1? You want to load up a patch and just start playing, not drawing. PLAY doesn't even allow you to change the mapping either.

HS could for me personally, have strengths in all areas is the short notes were dealt with. As I said, the dynamics jump why too much and it's almost impossible to do a smooth cres to drecres with them, or simply just crossfading smoothly between dynamics.

Writing to libs strengths is good and all, but not if you know that the lib you have could easily be improved by the devs. Otherwise you are just becoming a slave to the lib. "Ah well, the devs won't change it, I guess I have to just use it this way. Shame" You know what I mean.

HS could use some attention. A little refining. At least in my opinion.

I just cannot make those shorts sound good. Sloppy timing and dynamics is the reason. I'd love to hear from anyone who can.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

There are a ton of patches. It is dead simple to find all you need to play in most musical ideas.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

Sure HS could be better. ALL the big libraries could be better. No disagreement there. But if someone describes it as unusable, then I am sorry, they just aren't good enough at ysung it.


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## Dan Mott (Jan 4, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> Sure HS could be better. ALL the big libraries could be better. No disagreement there. But if someone describes it as unusable, then I am sorry, they just aren't good enough at ysung it.



HS is definitely usable in all areas.

Just really needs some improvements. :D


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## SoundTravels (Jan 4, 2014)

Agreed Jay. And I used it for awhile, and got results that were leagues above the results I was getting with EWQLSO. Our versions of lovely might be different, but it was more just a workflow and a few niggles about certain sounds, like the shorts having the volume turned down instead of ringing out mentioned above. 

FWIW, I think, like you said, you can still make a lovely track with EWQLSO if you write to it's strengths, so definitely the same w/ HS.

The reason I was actually interested in porting it to Kontakt, was to have control over the way HS blends from sus note to leg transition, to sus, and RT etc. Play doesn't have the wrench, and it doesn't let you get in there and change the curves of the AHDSR or apply a curve to how velocity changes the volume etc. All really tweaky stuff I like to do with Kontakt libs to get them to sound a little closer to the way I want them to sound. 

I don't want to knock any devs and I know EW discussions can blow up pretty quickly, I just found that the way the notes transition can be really bumpy, and it got to the point where I couldn't focus on anything but the bumpiness. 

Every once and awhile I break out HS and try again, but despite a really convincing raw sound at times, it hasn't made it back into the workflow yet...


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## NYC Composer (Jan 4, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> This is not a shot across anyone's bow; this is not meant to be insulting to anyone here; this is not because I am a part time EW employee.
> 
> Every time I sit down to compose I amusing HS and usually HB and HOW. Since HS is the first of the three that was released, I will specifically address it. I compose to the library's strengths and avoid its weaknesses, as I do with every library I have ever owned and also every live player I have written for. I reproduce part that I think sound great and so far, so have my clients.
> 
> ...



I don't disagree with your assertion, Jay, and though it's not Platinum, I love the tone of Silver. However, I will say that when I try to write something that seems fairly simple and should be, in my view, simple for a reasonably flexible professional library to achieve, I'm frustrated. I'm looking forward to the Silver updates to see if those issues are resolved. 

Even if they're not, Silver was extremely reasonably priced and I'll use it for what it does well.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

Well, I don't do that with my Kontakt libraries anyway. If a patch isn't working for me, I choose another patch. I have neither the time nor frankly inclination to start tweaking sample starts and releases, etc. All the "really tweaky stuff" as you put it. I would rather spend the time on the composition itself. Horses for courses.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

Yes, Larry, there are issues with Silver that need to resolved that are not in Diamond or Gold. How many times do I have to forthrightly state that?


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## NYC Composer (Jan 4, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> Yes, Larry, there are issues with Silver that need to resolved that are not in Diamond or Gold. How many times do I have to forthrightly state that?



None before that faintly irascible statement, but now, umm...4 more.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

Yes, Larry, there are issues with Silver that need to resolved that are not in Diamond or Gold. 

Yes, Larry, there are issues with Silver that need to resolved that are not in Diamond or Gold. 

Yes, Larry, there are issues with Silver that need to resolved that are not in Diamond or Gold. 

Yes, Larry, there are issues with Silver that need to resolved that are not in Diamond or Gold.


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## SoundTravels (Jan 4, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> Well, I don't do that with my Kontakt libraries anyway. If a patch isn't working for me, I choose another patch. I have neither the time nor frankly inclination to start tweaking sample starts and releases, etc. All the really tweaky stuff as you put it. I would rather spend the time on the composition itsekf. Horses for courses.



Yeah, it's not for everyone, but I found that it's a trade off. I can spend time trying to get the library to play the way I hear it in my head... or I can spend time editing the midi... or automating volumes... or playing it in again... or finding another patch that sounds better... it tends to even out, though it all takes WAAAY to f'ing long. Obviously I think we'd all just rather focus on the composition, having to be the engineer too adds a lot of time.

Honestly, it's all stuff I hate, well... maybe love/hate. It's so hard, if it was just a mock-up for a live date it'd be one thing, but when the actual product is the mock-up, whew boy, always hard for me to turn the perfectionist off. TV deadlines always help...


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## Mahlon (Jan 4, 2014)

Christof @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> I would LOVE to be able to create my own keyswitches in HS, or at least have more articulations in one instance like they did in QLSO, it is a shame to be forced to use about 4 tracks with different articulations for just one instrument group.
> Or did I miss something?
> The sound is awesome, no doubt.




Try TransMidifier. It's wonderful. And if you're using Cubase, you can mix expression maps with keywitches from TransMidiFier.

M.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

I hear you Sound Travels. All I can say is that as a pianist, I love playing Hollywood Strings and after I play or enter my controller stuff, i am happy with the result.

I am probably not as perfectionistic as some though. Perfection for me is when I play it back, it sounds pretty good to me, and after I send it to the client and he/she writes me back, "Works great, Jay."


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## SoundTravels (Jan 4, 2014)

So true. If the client's happy that's what really matters. I'm trying to move away from perfectionism and closer to what you just said, but when it's a habit it's a struggle!!!


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

SoundTravels @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> So true. If the client's happy that's what really matters. I'm trying to move away from perfectionism and closer to what you just said, but when it's a habit it's a struggle!!!



Don't get me wrong, I admire that. It is just not my nature.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 4, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> Yes, Larry, there are issues with Silver that need to resolved that are not in Diamond or Gold.
> 
> Yes, Larry, there are issues with Silver that need to resolved that are not in Diamond or Gold.
> 
> ...



Ha!


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## Jordan Gagne (Jan 4, 2014)

Aside from Jay, East West as a company is a total dud. There, I said it. Companies like Spitfire and Cinesamples, with their excellent customer support and free updates, have made EW as a sample developer virtually obsolete in my books. And then when you take into account that it uses Play -- it's the nail in the coffin for me. 

I appreciate how good some of the actual samples of their libraries sound, and if EW was still the top tier developer in the sample world then maybe it would be worth putting up with. But they're not anymore -- not by a long shot. 

It would be nice if Jay's thoughtfulness and enthusiasm could be put to use supporting another developer, since honestly, at this point Jay's deathgrip on the tattered EW banner is the only thing really keeping them relevant here. I don't envy your job at all, but I can't say that you don't do it well.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

Jordan Gagne @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> I appreciate how good some of the actual samples of their libraries sound, and if EW was still the top tier developer in the sample world then maybe it would be worth putting up with. But they're not anymore -- not by a long shot.



If that is your opinion you are of course entitled to it, but by measurements of sales, pro users, and awards....well let's just say your view is not empirically correct....not by a long shot


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## SymphonicSamples (Jan 4, 2014)

HS was at it's release a massive achievement , and very forward thinking , even with current PC's it can still pack a punch on ram requirements , but that was one thing I loved about HS , she was a monster , no hiding that , and still hold's it's place , stands it's ground in the strings market (imho) , it's just a shame that some advancements in Play 4 couldn't offer some ground to be gained . It's still one of the best libraries I've bought to date , and until recently the only strings I used at all  Adagietto intro was too tempting , but does it replace HS , of course not , like every high-end library, it's another color/brush available to realize your music . Hats off to you Jay for your passion and commitment to EW , your a better man than most o-[][]-o


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## feck (Jan 4, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> Sure HS could be better. ALL the big libraries could be better. No disagreement there. But if someone describes it as unusable, then I am sorry, they just aren't good enough at ysung it.


It isn't about "unusable" for me. A busted Harmony guitar with 4 strings is "usable". But if I have a proper Les Paul next to it which plays better, I'm gonna use it. As a working composer with tons of deadline/time sensitive work, I end up factoring ergonomics and ease-of-use in with the samples I use along with the requisite sound quality factor. I don't think there is ANY doubting or arguing that at this point that the Hollywood series is nowhere near the top of the heap when it comes to quick playability, ease of use, or adaptive playing/scripting. However, it does sound stunning. Which is why I would love to see (even if it is a paid upgrade which I assume it would have to be) a re-scripting that brings it into the arena with the other current big boy sample sets which react to the user and can be customized, at least to some degree. I realize you said that won't happen, but can you blame me for trying? :D


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

SymphonicSamples @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> HS was at it's release a massive achievement , and very forward thinking , even with current PC's it can still pack a punch on ram requirements , but that was one thing I loved about HS , she was a monster , no hiding that , and still hold's it's place , stands it's ground in the strings market (imho) , it's just a shame that some advancements in Play 4 couldn't offer some ground to be gained . It's still one of the best libraries I've bought to date , and until recently the only strings I used at all  Adagietto intro was too tempting , but does it replace HS , of course not , like every high-end library, it's another color/brush available to realize your music . Hats off to you Jay for your passion and commitment to EW , your a better man than most o-[][]-o



Thank you, I greatly appreciate that.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

feck @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sat Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > Sure HS could be better. ALL the big libraries could be better. No disagreement there. But if someone describes it as unusable, then I am sorry, they just aren't good enough at ysung it.
> ...



Scott, I just don't get the playability issue and I wish you were in LA and could come here and see how effortlessly I pay plarts in. I mostly use about 6 patches per instrument that I navigate through in Logic with program changes from my controller: a legato slur; a mod shorts; a ks patch for sustain, trills, tremolo; a pizz; and a playable runs. All respond to my playing beautifully and I can create string tracks pretty faciley and quickly. The same for HB, and I am getting closer to that with HOW.
Once again, those of you in LA are welcome to come over and watch and report to others what you see.


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## dpasdernick (Jan 4, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Scott I doubt it. I think that after HOP is released Doug, is done with orchestral stuff and on to the pop/rock stuff with the big times guys he has made deals with.



Doug does the scripting? >8o Can't EW hire a dude to fix the issues these guys are talking about? Is this another example of a developer moving on to other endeavors and leaving a product with problems? Sorry to sound critical but that sounds like a cop out. Sounds like Doug is just fed up with orchestral libs and wants to move on. Meanwhile there are people here with concerns. What does this say for EW's commitment to their products?


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2014)

I was referring to major overhalls of orchestral libraries, not bug fix updates. I believe there will be more of those. I do not expect there will be e.g. an HS 2.0 with a bunch of new keyswitch patches and new content.


----------



## Peter Alexander (Jan 4, 2014)

feck @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> As a working composer with tons of deadline/time sensitive work, I end up factoring ergonomics and ease-of-use in with the samples I use along with the requisite sound quality factor. I don't think there is ANY doubting or arguing that at this point that the Hollywood series is nowhere near the top of the heap when it comes to quick playability, ease of use, or adaptive playing/scripting. However, it does sound stunning.



I have this lib and I've written multiple articles on it over at http://www.soniccontrol.tv (www.soniccontrol.tv) and www.professionalorchestration.com. 

Not knowing you, I don't know your background, so please keep that into consideration as you read this. I don't personally see that the library needs rescripting. What I _do_ see is that more users need to understand the string section and string bowings.

Even more than the Vienna string libraries, you are presented with the opportunity/challenge of being a virtual concertmaster with this library. You have the opportunity/challenge of being able to actually plan your bowings and develop that I have not seen possible to date with other libraries. In saying this, I don't have the Spitfire string libs nor do I have at this time Berlin Strings or Adagio/Adagietto. 

Nonetheless, these are all _smaller_ ensembles until Spitfire releases Mural. This means that Vienna Appassionata & Orchestral Strings, Hollywood Strings, LASS and Mural will be the only string libs with a dramatic size string section as used in symphonic concerts and larger budget film scores. 

Hollywood Strings is a library to be explored _musically_ moreso than technically.

What the library needs is for EW to be produce a serious orchestration based, training series that shows how to get the most out of this library. There are enough meat and potato bowings in this lib that you can get going right away. I have deadlines, too.

You CAN work fast with this lib.


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## KingIdiot (Jan 4, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> This is not a shot across anyone's bow; this is not meant to be insulting to anyone here; this is not because I am a part time EW employee.
> 
> Every time I sit down to compose I amusing HS and usually HB and HOW. Since HS is the first of the three that was released, I will specifically address it. I compose to the library's strengths and avoid its weaknesses, as I do with every library I have ever owned and also every live player I have written for. I reproduce part that I think sound great and so far, so have my clients.
> 
> ...



I'm with you man. In also think that if you have the tools to customize it to do what you want, then you can't bitch ....as much 

And truth is we have those tools. Its really not THAT hard to do, and if you miss it enough that you long for it, then do the work tone unique. If its just about being bummed out, then put it away like pictures of exes you're obsessing over. Burn it.

For the record I was replying in context to the platinum talk

I think that hws has enough really great stuff to warrant the price and forgive some of the clunky shit. All great libs are like that.


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## Casiquire (Jan 4, 2014)

dpasdernick @ Sat 04 Jan said:


> Doug does the scripting? >8o Can't EW hire a dude to fix the issues these guys are talking about? Is this another example of a developer moving on to other endeavors and leaving a product with problems? Sorry to sound critical but that sounds like a cop out. Sounds like Doug is just fed up with orchestral libs and wants to move on. Meanwhile there are people here with concerns. What does this say for EW's commitment to their products?



The same thing I've been thinking about EW's commitment to their products for a long while now.


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## aaronnt1 (Jan 5, 2014)

It's a shame if Doug still feels he doesn't want to do any more orchestral stuff, EW are so good at sampling that and surely there's more money in that than pop/rock stuff where people will use session musicians more? I mean things like the upcoming Ghostwriter sound pretty interesting and may provide some great new sounds but there's a lot more EW could do orchestral wise, Hollywood expansions like the upcoming Berlin Strings and Brass expansions for a start. A killer harp library. Orchestral fx and controllable aleotoric stuff which more developers are tackling now.

I just feel without more orchestral orientated releases, EW may start to fade in people's minds over time? I'm sure Doug knows what he's doing though.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 5, 2014)

aaronnt1 @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> It's a shame if Doug still feels he doesn't want to do any more orchestral stuff, EW are so good at sampling that and surely there's more money in that than pop/rock stuff where people will use session musicians more? I mean things like the upcoming Ghostwriter sound pretty interesting and may provide some great new sounds but there's a lot more EW could do orchestral wise, Hollywood expansions like the upcoming Berlin Strings and Brass expansions for a start. A killer harp library. Orchestral fx and controllable aleotoric stuff which more developers are tackling now.
> 
> I just feel without more orchestral orientated releases, EW may start to fade in people's minds over time? I'm sure Doug knows what he's doing though.



Doug doesn't exactly pour out his heart to me but I from what little I have gleaned, I believe he feels that with the Hollywood Series he successfully climbed Mt. Everest and is now looking for other mountains to climb. And anyway, it's pretty crowded on Mt. Everest these days 

As for his decision making, when I find myself disagreeing with positions he takes, I remind myself that it is hard to argue with his track record.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 5, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> And anyway, it's pretty crowded on Mt. Everest these days



This.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 5, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 05 said:
> 
> 
> > And anyway, it's pretty crowded on Mt. Everest these days
> ...



It's simply common business sense, isn't it?. As a composer unless I am specifically hired to do it, I avoid the bombastic trailer sound that so many here are anxious to achieve partly because so many try to do it and so many libraries make it easy (relatively) to do it somewhat decently.

That, and because I hate, hate, hate it.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 5, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sun Jan 05 said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 05 said:
> ...



I think it makes business sense because the field is getting crowded, the investments are large and the time frame is fairly long to achieve returns. I do wonder if someone will take a crack at an EWQLSO- style, comprehensive, all in one approach again with more modern technology- because to me, this is still a hole in the marketplace in a field where everything is now modular.


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 5, 2014)

Well, EWQLSO was modular too at first, wasn't it? So CineOrch (er, needs a new name) from CS can only be a few months and a marketing campaign away. Ditto Berlin Orch. Spitfire 2015.

I'd have thought the returns vs outlay on re-scripting the HS series for K*****t would be the easiest money in all sampledom, but there I go again....


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## KingIdiot (Jan 5, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> Well, EWQLSO was modular too at first, wasn't it? So CineOrch (er, needs a new name) from CS can only be a few months and a marketing campaign away. Ditto Berlin Orch. Spitfire 2015.
> 
> I'd have thought the returns vs outlay on re-scripting the HS series for K*****t would be the easiest money in all sampledom, but there I go again....



I did some small amount for myself  because play hated my old rig and I wanted something for my mobile setup without loading 500GB of samples. It's fairly easy to do something simple, but it wont be exact and you can run into issues with phasing depending on what/how you sample.

I'm a bit nuts thought.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 5, 2014)

I am probably the REAL King Idiot for posting this, but here is something I did with HS and HB this morning. I took app. 1 hour and 5 minutes to compose and perform it and 1/2 hour to mix it.

If you don't like it, don't blame the Hollywood Series and certainly Alban Berg, blame me

EDIT:

I decided I like this well enough to do a better job on the mix. So, here's the new link.

https://soundcloud.com/jay-asher/for-alban


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## Vlzmusic (Jan 5, 2014)

Call me weird, but I like Play  Though, by coincident, I have joined EW users pool the day Play 3 went online, so I imagine Play/Play 2 users have darker memories. 

I like the screen (I do know Kontakt by heart, know how to script etc. but still like Play more), LOVE the effects. I wish it could allow keyswitches, and wish mic faders would provide numerical values - but thats about all.

Now - the most significant problem I`ve ever experienced with EW - musical inconsistency. Some of the things are rock solid, but some, as the MOR 2 drums, drive me nuts, honestly.

I own only HS Gold from the Hollywood series, but if I could name one thing which stops me from using them much much more - rhythmic inconsistency. Legatos, some of the shorts (even the "tight" folder) - I just don`t like hitting play button twice, and hear significantly different rhythmic phrasing. I could live with normal, musical variation, as in RR.

So in my view - if Nick, or anyone who works on these libs, could pinpoint the source of the unmusical "sloppiness", and make the performance more predictable - this would suffice in my opinion.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 5, 2014)

Please check out the new mix if you listened to the previous mix.

https://soundcloud.com/jay-asher/for-alban


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## SoundTravels (Jan 5, 2014)

Second Viennese School for Virtual Instruments. A bold move!

I do feel like the VI's are not living up to the composition though. 

It seems like there's something slightly distracting going on with the volume automation? Especially starting at around 34 seconds? Jay, let me know if you hear what I'm talking about, maybe it's just me. Sounds like someone turning a volume knob up and down which breaks the sense that it's being played by players. 

It's interesting how "Epic" music relies on VI's so heavily that it seems to fit, but in an art music context the "virtual-ness" of them really stands out. 

Thank you for putting this out there btw!


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 5, 2014)

:o


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## renegade (Jan 5, 2014)

SoundTravels @ Sun 05 Jan said:


> The reason I was actually interested in porting it to Kontakt, was to have control over the way HS blends from sus note to leg transition, to sus, and RT etc. Play doesn't have the wrench, and it doesn't let you get in there and change the curves of the AHDSR or apply a curve to how velocity changes the volume etc.



To have that wrench in PLAY would be great indeed...


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 5, 2014)

SoundTravels @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> Second Viennese School for Virtual Instruments. A bold move!
> 
> I do feel like the VI's are not living up to the composition though.
> 
> ...



Yes, I think I got a little carried away with cc11 perhaps :(

Anyway, I wrote this as a response to the VI Control folks who maintain that you cannot work fast and efficiently with the Hollywood Series. I composed and played this in (2 passes, one for notes and modwheel vibrato, second pass with cc11 Expression for volume) in 65 minutes. (with another 30 or so for mixing.)

If it were for real, I would be more picky with the automation. But anyway, I really like it compositionally and I really like the sound of the Hollywood Series and what I can achieve with it in a hurry.


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## SoundTravels (Jan 5, 2014)

Got it. Which leads me to a question you might be able to answer. There's only one velocity layer in the legato patches right? And that's why they use CC11 as just a volume control? I can't really hear different layers, but wanted to double check.

Thanks!


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 5, 2014)

The Powerful System legato patches I use have 13 layers, two of which you hear at any given point, according to the Soud On Sound review.


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## Nuno (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi Jay

In your opinion what is the best reverb(s) preset(s) included in Play 4 to to apply in HS and HB silver for closely match the room of EWQLSO? (I still dig the string shorts and the brass, as well perc included in SO.)


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 5, 2014)

Nuno @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> Hi Jay
> 
> In your opinion what is the best reverb(s) preset(s) included in Play 4 to to apply in HS and HB silver for closely match the room of EWQLSO? (I still dig the string shorts and the brass, as well perc included in SO.)


0

Sorry, but I don't know as I never use them.


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## Gusfmm (Jan 5, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> The Powerful System legato patches I use have 13 layers, two of which you hear at any given point, according to the Soud On Sound review.



That's a bit of a mangling of things Jay, the use of "layers" as opposed to "voices" doesn't help clarify the original question. 

The question was about recorded dynamic layers, and although that is not made completely clear in the manual in the context of these legato patches, I'm led to believe the answer should be: the same as there are sustained layers, which depending on the patch you select could be 3 or up to 5, for the powerful patches; from the manual:

• 5 levels of loudness for non-vibrato
• 5 levels of loudness for vibrato
• 3 levels of loudness for molto vibrato

The legato patches simply add small legato transitions to those sustained samples.

The reason why velocity doesn't change the dynamic layers in these legato patches is because the speed of the legato transition samples is determined by velocity ONLY in these legato patches, as opposed to a regular sustained patch where note velocity determines the dynamic layer to play. With the legato patches, Expression allows you to switch dynamic layers. Hope that helps.

Jay is right in that at any given point in time, there is at least two voices (or samples) playing depending on the vibrato level selected, one of them could be silent. And there could also be two dynamic layers crossfaded playing simultaneously as well, thus the complexity and resource intensive nature of the library, which translates in more flexible control for the end-user.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 5, 2014)

Thanks for the clarification, Gusfmm.


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## SoundTravels (Jan 5, 2014)

Thanks guys! Man, those different velocity layers must be _really_ subtle. It certainly doesn't sound like 5 distinct dynamics to my ear. It really sounds like one or maybe two (I'm talking about the powerful sys patches) layers just being turned up or down, but I'm guessing that since cc11 also controls volume, even the soft samples are being turned way down, instead of just letting them be their relative volume of "soft"... Maybe that's what's throwing my ear off.

Also, interesting to know that there's an inherent layering. I'd actually much rather hear just one dynamic layer at a time... maybe that's why HS has always sounded a bit odd in practice to me...

This discussion made me break HS back out and I'm playing around with it right now. I will say, the one promising thing is that it seems to blend pretty well w/ CineStrings, almost sounds like the same room. I'm fooling around with ways to use them together to see if the parts add up to more than the whole or the other way around!

Thanks!

ST

EDIT: also, what seems weird is that there must only be one dynamic layer of leg transitions... so ff and pp are both being blended with the same transition sample... Might explain some things. I'm thinking using one of the 3 patches might actually provide better results than the power patches for that reason...


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 5, 2014)

As the number goes down from 12 to 6 to 3, you will probably think the sound gets less lush though.


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## aaronnt1 (Jan 5, 2014)

SoundTravels @ Mon 06 Jan said:


> Also, interesting to know that there's an inherent layering. I'd actually much rather hear just one dynamic layer at a time... maybe that's why HS has always sounded a bit odd in practice to me...



I'm pretty sure you _do_ only hear one dynamic layer at a time, but as gusfmm said, the other layer(s) will be silent until you start to cross fade. It wouldn't make any sense to have two dynamic layers audible during a sustain...

Not sure how many dynamic layers there are for the actual legato transitions but if it is only one, they did a good job because at all loudness levels, I almost always get extremely smooth transitions.

Edit: I see Thomas J has already confirmed 3 dynamic layers of legato transitions.


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## SoundTravels (Jan 5, 2014)

Thomas_J @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> HS has 3 dynamics of true legato, 4 in the violins. I did a lot of the original scripting and we had implemented adaptive legato playing, where it would switch between bow change legato to slurred legato to runs depending on the playing speed (like Berlin strings is now doing, only 3 years earlier). Because people were already complaining about HS being a resource hog this was never implemented for public release. For the record I think Berlin strings sounds wonderful, and I'm excited to see continued enthusiasm for the commercial world of sampling even though mine came to an end after HW. That said, there's a lot you can do with HS, though. It's not an easy library to work with in the sense that it's not immediately gratifying, but as one simply does not walk into Mordor, neither does one purchase a violin and expect to play Paganini right off the bat.



Thanks Thomas!


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## KingIdiot (Jan 6, 2014)

Yup, that's right folks, not only is Thomas an awesome composer, he scripts his own libraries, and hes fucking good at it. He can edit samples pretty fast too, I still got him beat in a few things... like looks


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## Dan Mott (Jan 6, 2014)

Massive conspiracy about why the divisi was recorded in mono......... :lol: 


I would love to know the reason behind this decision.


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## SymphonicSamples (Jan 6, 2014)

Thomas_J @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> one simply does not walk into Mordor.


I refuse to believe this .. And most importantly , HS with Adaptive Legato , so were years on now , and we're ready Thomas . Now that would be a fine update , and clearly Play is cable of more than one may think :wink:


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## Nuno (Jan 6, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> Nuno @ Sun Jan 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Jay
> ...



No problem. Meanwhile, i realized that was time to get Spaces. I think i made a great investment.


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## DenisT (Jan 6, 2014)

Yes, you did! I use it all the time, it's a fantastic plugin.


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## Gusfmm (Jan 6, 2014)

Thomas_J @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> HS has 3 dynamics of true legato, 4 in the violins. I did a lot of the original scripting and we had implemented adaptive legato playing, where it would switch between bow change legato to slurred legato to runs depending on the playing speed (like Berlin strings is now doing, only 3 years earlier). Because people were already complaining about HS being a resource hog this was never implemented for public release.



Speaking of interesting ways of programming, just for perspecctive, I personally started building similar more complex matrixes (worth mentioning: not only limited to legato) at around the release of VSL VIP, about 3 years ago also, but I believe the concept was already there way before that, as the legacy Vienna Instrument Player had such facilities built in already. That is, controlling articulation changes via speed, velocity, etc. and having cell Xfading work in conjunction via CC. So yeah, not a new concept indeed.


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## Rv5 (Jan 6, 2014)

Hollywood strings is an awesome library... I'm really exploring the divisi mics at the moment and there are some weird things afoot, but it's mostly pretty awesome. So yes it could use some work in that respect - odd things going off on certain notes, hearing people talk and note jumps I guess.

The frustration comes from Play, for example I bounced out all 4 mic positions and had to resort to real time bouncing to stop the clicks & pops (this is from an i7 extreme, all ssds and 64gb).

Times that for all articulations across strings and brass... it's time consuming and takes the edge off it. But the results are cool when it finally get's done. I blended HS and HB with real instruments for my latest project:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_ayYdmJios


In the mean time I'm going to test out the divis setup and will post some results soon(ish).

I think what's amazing about being able to script these libraries is the in-depth understanding of the instruments whose performance you are trying to emulate required. That in turn shows skilled musicianship and musicality, it's impressive!


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 6, 2014)

I think using all 4 mics is overkill personally. Two ought to get it done.


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## Rv5 (Jan 6, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> I think using all 4 mics is overkill personally. Two ought to get it done.



Get what done?  Kinda depends on what the project is eh? It helps me to know the library, explore what's possible, and help me define different sonic landscapes.

But yes, depending what it is, I'll often use just the one... But for this project, I bounced out all 4


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 6, 2014)

Get it done musically.

Maybe try bouncing out different combos of two to " explore what's possible, and help me define different sonic landscapes."

Just a suggestion.


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## Rv5 (Jan 6, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> Get it done musically.
> 
> Maybe try bouncing out different combos of two to " explore what's possible, and help me define different sonic landscapes."
> 
> Just a suggestion.



The library has 4(5) mic positions. I try them out together because otherwise I wouldn't know what they sounded like in different combinations.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 6, 2014)

Rv5 @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Mon Jan 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Get it done musically.
> ...



Enjoy then!


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## Diffusor (Jan 6, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> I am probably the REAL King Idiot for posting this, but here is something I did with HS and HB this morning. I took app. 1 hour and 5 minutes to compose and perform it and 1/2 hour to mix it.
> 
> If you don't like it, don't blame the Hollywood Series and certainly Alban Berg, blame me
> 
> ...



I know your intention was to show you can work fast with HS but honestly this sounds like you need to spend several more hours with the programming alone. I think feck's request was to have a faster workflow with adaptable sampling "but" also sound good at the same time. This demo doesn't reflect the quality you can achieve with HS imo but only says to me you have to invest in some considerable time just as as ThomasJ suggested.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 6, 2014)

It will sound better with more work but even in its present state it is only app. 1/2 hour away from a result I like better than 90% of what I hear posted with other libraries. If you don't, I am perfectly fine with it.


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## Nuno (Jan 7, 2014)

*Re: Play 4 create Keyswitches?*

In Play 4 there is an option to create keyswitches in Menu>Advanced Instrument Properties but I can't get it to work :?


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## Mahlon (Jan 7, 2014)

I don't feel it should be re-scripted. Necessarily. Tweaked, tidied up, condensed a little? Maybe.

It's still the best sounding commercial string library out there to me, the most realistic tone and musicality able to cover the most different eras of music. (I've just picked up Berlin Strings, which also sounds very expressive and realistic, but it will be a while before I'm able to see what I can pull from it. What others have done sounds pretty incredible so far).

For me, no not re-scripted, but I wouldn't mind some updates. Though if those don't come, that's okay too. It's a super solid library.

o-[][]-o 

M.
*EDIT: Oops, I misread and thought this was just pertaining to HW Strings.*


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## shapeshifter00 (Jan 7, 2014)

For the legato patches in HS silver I have problems with it being smooth between the notes. Like when the next note comes (I do overlap the midi notes a bit) it comes like a hard staccato-like attack on each note and it makes it sound extremely bad. Modwheel doesnt work as Kontakt libraries I have. Any idea how to make the legato sound better? I thought it sound great the first time I used it in my template and now that I reload the template it seems to not sound as its supposed to. I tried to reload the patches without any luck, I also changed the attack envelope and that doesn't really do it either. Anyone know how to fix this?


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## clonewar (Jan 7, 2014)

Does anyone know why EW never released Play PRO? It had a python scripting engine and could have solved some of these issues. 

Along with creating custom keyswitch patches, it would let users script their own adaptive patches like Thomas mentioned.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 7, 2014)

shapeshifter00 @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> For the legato patches in HS silver I have problems with it being smooth between the notes. Like when the next note comes (I do overlap the midi notes a bit) it comes like a hard staccato-like attack on each note and it makes it sound extremely bad. Modwheel doesnt work as Kontakt libraries I have. Any idea how to make the legato sound better? I thought it sound great the first time I used it in my template and now that I reload the template it seems to not sound as its supposed to. I tried to reload the patches without any luck, I also changed the attack envelope and that doesn't really do it either. Anyone know how to fix this?



We're awaiting new patches for HS Silver. Apparently, there are programming problems. Release time for the new patches is not known, however the best source we have has opined that it will be soonish rather than laterish. :wink:


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## trumpoz (Jan 8, 2014)

Clone war - icantspeak for EW obviously but.....

Doug posted a couple of years ago about the roadmap for Play. There were bug fixes to be done, a paid upgrade (looks like it was the ssl fx) and the the long road to releasing play pro. My guess is there are still a few bugs the want to iron out before going towards play pro - and it has been that long it may well have been put on the back burned.


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## Rv5 (Jan 8, 2014)

Have a question about Hollywood Strings regarding the 'powerful' patches with KSFP (Key Switch Finger Position which is one of my favourite features of HS.)-

How come the open strings behave differently in the sustain to the legato?

In the sustain patches with KSFP the mod wheel doesn't do anything on the open strings in finger position 1 but does in the legato. Just wondering what the reason for this might be?

The open string needs to be reached by taking mod wheel down on legato in finger position 1 for legato, but not sustain.


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## aaronnt1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Rv5 @ Wed 08 Jan said:


> Have a question about Hollywood Strings regarding the 'powerful' patches with KSFP (Key Switch Finger Position which is one of my favourite features of HS.)-
> 
> How come the open strings behave differently in the sustain to the legato?
> 
> ...



I also love the finger position control, makes such a difference in places. Not exactly sure what your question means though, the mod wheel shouldn't have any effect on any open string, either for the sustain patches or the legato patches (which basically are the sustain patches but with added separate transitions) since you can't control vibrato for an open string. I just tried and although you can achieve a slur down to an open string in the legato patches, both the sustain and legatos otherwise behaved exactly the same...?


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## Rv5 (Jan 8, 2014)

aaronnt1 @ Wed Jan 08 said:


> Rv5 @ Wed 08 Jan said:
> 
> 
> > Have a question about Hollywood Strings regarding the 'powerful' patches with KSFP (Key Switch Finger Position which is one of my favourite features of HS.)-
> ...



Ooh strange - on the legato patches I have loaded (legato+port from the 'powerful machine' folder, the mod wheel does bring in vibrato, but when all the way down reveals the open string. What legato patches are you using? I'll do some more tests later with other legato patches and see if it's only the ones from that folder.


----------



## aaronnt1 (Jan 8, 2014)

Rv5 @ Wed 08 Jan said:


> aaronnt1 @ Wed Jan 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Rv5 @ Wed 08 Jan said:
> ...



Weird, I just tried with the 1st Violins Leg+Port Powerful System patch and I don't get that. On bottom G position 1 - the open string position - I get no vibrato at all at any mod wheel setting, which is how it should be. Only when I change to position 2 or above then I get vibrato when raising CC1. You sure there's no hidden CC70 (finger position) message anywhere which means you're not playing an open string?


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## Rv5 (Jan 8, 2014)

aaronnt1 @ Wed Jan 08 said:


> Weird, I just tried with the 1st Violins Leg+Port Powerful System patch and I don't get that. On bottom G position 1 - the open string position - I get no vibrato at all at any mod wheel setting, which is how it should be. Only when I change to position 2 or above then I get vibrato when raising CC1. You sure there's no hidden CC70 (finger position) message anywhere which means you're not playing an open string?



Are you running the latest version of Hollywood Strings update and Play 4.1? Maybe I need to re-install the library.

Also are you trying on the other open strings? Violins D,A and E?


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## aaronnt1 (Jan 9, 2014)

Rv5 @ Thu 09 Jan said:


> aaronnt1 @ Wed Jan 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Weird, I just tried with the 1st Violins Leg+Port Powerful System patch and I don't get that. On bottom G position 1 - the open string position - I get no vibrato at all at any mod wheel setting, which is how it should be. Only when I change to position 2 or above then I get vibrato when raising CC1. You sure there's no hidden CC70 (finger position) message anywhere which means you're not playing an open string?
> ...



Yes, everything up to date. Tried G, D A & E string and getting no vibrato on any of those on 1st position.


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## Rv5 (Jan 9, 2014)

aaronnt1 @ Thu Jan 09 said:


> Yes, everything up to date. Tried G, D A & E string and getting no vibrato on any of those on 1st position.



Thanks for the feedback, after reloading everything, the issue seems to have resolved itself... Odd behaviour but it's sorted anyway!

Now however, the Divisi mics A&B on the legato patches become polyphonic and sustained with no midi input other than 1, 11 and notes. No additional midi data is being sent i.e. the scripting isn't changed from 'other'. Another strange one.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 9, 2014)

Rv5 @ Thu Jan 09 said:


> aaronnt1 @ Thu Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, everything up to date. Tried G, D A & E string and getting no vibrato on any of those on 1st position.
> ...



Well, I have been trying this now for 15 minutes and it simply isn't happening here in Logic Pro X. The monophonic legatos are remaining monophonic legatos.


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## Rv5 (Jan 9, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Jan 09 said:


> Well, I have been trying this now for 15 minutes and it simply isn't happening here in Logic Pro X. The monophonic legatos are remaining monophonic legatos.



Thanks for testing it out Jay - I'll do a screencast and send you a link. I'm using Reaper - I'll try Logic just in case, I'll also try a different keyboard. It's odd that it's only the divisi patches though and not all legato. Maybe I should just re-install the library from the original hard drive just to iron out these odd occurrences?


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## Rv5 (Jan 9, 2014)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opl1nnGKC8I

Please note the loudest part is at 1min 20 - jumps out quite a bit.

So here you'll see me loading in tracks that connect to VEP 5 where my template is loaded. The template is in progress and consists of 1st, 2nd, violas, celli and basses legato and shorts. A Play instance each for the legato and shorts per section (1st Leg, 1st Shorts, 2nd Leg, 2nd Shorts etc). This is in Play 4.1 done from scratch. This is loaded up first on the PC. Then I open Reaper and connect via VEP loading the track templates.

The video speeds up and slows down so you don't have to sit through the whole time I was playing but you see what I was doing. You'll see when I go from playing Violas and Celli and add in 1st and 2nd, the polyphony has started, this is at around 2min59. This is only in the Divisi patches. The div patches loaded are:

legato slur + port Div A Ni
legato slur + port Div B Ni

for all sections.

Just to add, I disconnected from Reaper and loaded up in Logic and the polyphony is still there in the divisi patches. It's the fact it only happens to the divisi patches that makes me think it's not a midi message being sent, and there is no change in the Play page for the patches either. They need to be reloaded in order for it to work, then it happens again.


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## feck (Jan 11, 2014)

Mahlon @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> M.
> *EDIT: Oops, I misread and thought this was just pertaining to HW Strings.*



Actually , it WAS intended to pertain only to HW Strings. Sorry, I should have been more clear in the title.


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