# Sib vs Fin



## cug (Dec 13, 2013)

I didn't see a recent discussion on this so I'll post the age old question. I'm taking a course in scoring for strings starting January. I need to get either Finale or Sibelius. I'm not setting up anything for publishing/printing but I will need to print (at home) some parts for a string quintet. I will likely start with a mock-up in Logic and then export a MIDI file to either Finale or Sibelius for detailed notation marks. My mock-ups will use either VSL solo strings or LASS. I use lots of expression and velocity fading. I don't expect the controller performance data to migrate to the notation program per se but it would be nice... Any preference in this crowd? If so, which one makes your life easier?


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## SamGarnerStudios (Dec 13, 2013)

I was a Finale user for several years, but I transitioned to a very Sibelius heavy environment at my school, so I made the leap. Occasionally I miss certain things Finale can do, but more times than not I'm very satisfied with Sibelius. It's very user friendly but powerful. I'm not that person that whines about Finale being tough to use, it can be difficult, but I put the time into learning it and it is extremely powerful. I would be more inclined to use Finale if I was publishing, which you are not. 

All that being said, if you are a jazz guy Sibelius loses it's edge. It's a little harder to deal with rhythmic notation and the chord tool is a little weirder, imo, but it doesn't sound like you'll be doing any of that so you should be fine.


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## stonzthro (Dec 13, 2013)

Both are robust programs but what you are describing can be done in Logic. Jay Asher wrote the book on Logic notation (literally). Get his book, read it over the holidays, then reassess. 

I've been on Finale since 1990 and I'd probably look into Sibelius first if I were just starting out.


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## Luke W (Dec 13, 2013)

I've been a Finale guy since 1992 and engrave for a living. For what you want to do, I don't think there's a clear winner. I still think Finale has the better notation engine under the hood, but in terms of producing mock-ups, I don't believe either program does it particularly well. Depending on the client, sometimes I can live with what Finale spits out, sometimes I print the music and just play everything into Logic. From what my Sibelius friends tell me, that program produces similar results.

If you're already comfortable with one over the other, I'd recommend sticking with it. Either program will give you a comparable demo, from what I understand. But again, I'm a Finale guy - maybe a Sibelius user will bring some info I'm unaware of.


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## composeradrian (Dec 13, 2013)

You really have to treat Sibelius/Finale as an engraving tool and nothing more. Stonzthro has a good point of possibly just using Logic's notation option if you're keeping it in house. Otherwise, all the extra CCs will just bog down your midi when you import into Sibelius/Finale, and you'll spend more time cleaning up the file after import than inputting from scratch.

But if I had to pick from one of the two... Sibelius, hands down (at least for the time being.)


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## SamGarnerStudios (Dec 13, 2013)

Yeah, I forgot to mention that too. The first thing I do when I import midi into sibelius is delete ALL CC data. It bogs down the GUI and it's not worth it. If it's alreayd in Logic, you don't need to worry about playback. 

Sidenote, you can also check out Notion 4. A great composing tool, especially for quick printing and composing. It's on the top of my "Best 99$ spent" list.


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## wcreed51 (Dec 13, 2013)

A couple of other things to consider are:

There's a new version of Finale just out that still has some rather serious bugs.

Finale has no built in support for LASS or VSL SS, so you'd have to manually set those up, where as this support is already available for Sib.

I say all this as a long time Finale user...


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## SamGarnerStudios (Dec 13, 2013)

Does anyone know the latest word on the financial situation of Sibelius?


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## Phrosty (Dec 13, 2013)

SamGarnerStudios

Sibelius got gobbled up by AVID or were you referring to something else?


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## JT (Dec 13, 2013)

Let me second what wcreed said above. Finale has no HP preferences setup to control playback with VSL SS or LASS. You'd have to create a custom set to do that yourself. Sibelius would be your choice based on this criteria. I've created a custom set of preferences that work with Sable, works really well. But it takes a while to create this.

And like wcreed, I too am a Finale user. I tried Sibelius but couldn't wrap my head around it, still can't. But the future of Sib. is up in the air.

edit: just a thought, if you're thinking about using LASS with Sib., check and see what version of LASS is supported. I'm not sure if SIb. will work with the latest update.


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## composeradrian (Dec 13, 2013)

Things also aren't that great at MakeMusic either

http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/layoff ... makemusic/


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## Jdiggity1 (Dec 13, 2013)

'Sibelius First' might be a cheap alternative for you. I personally wouldn't fork out full price for Sibelius 7 with such an uncertain future ahead of them.

http://www.sibelius.com/products/sibeli ... index.html


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## cug (Dec 13, 2013)

SamGarnerStudios @ 2013-12-13 said:


> All that being said, if you are a jazz guy Sibelius loses it's edge. It's a little harder to deal with rhythmic notation and the chord tool is a little weirder, imo, but it doesn't sound like you'll be doing any of that so you should be fine.



My initial use is for a course, Writing and Scoring for Strings at UCLA. Learning to write and notate for the string family. Later, I would like to be able to produce charts for just about any genre including jazz.


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## cug (Dec 13, 2013)

Jdiggity1 @ 2013-12-13 said:


> 'Sibelius First' might be a cheap alternative for you. I personally wouldn't fork out full price for Sibelius 7 with such an uncertain future ahead of them.



Thanks. Good point about the future. The instructor seems to be pushing for full pro versions of Sib or Fin. Not sure if the less expensive versions would have all the notation markings that we might need for strings notation. I probably need to go for the full product, either way.


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## Jdiggity1 (Dec 13, 2013)

cug @ Sat 14 Dec said:


> Jdiggity1 @ 2013-12-13 said:
> 
> 
> > 'Sibelius First' might be a cheap alternative for you. I personally wouldn't fork out full price for Sibelius 7 with such an uncertain future ahead of them.
> ...



In that case, my vote goes to Sibelius. Granted, I have never used Finale, but I have never felt that I needed to. I use it for string and orchestral writing, transcriptions (of any kind), piano writing, and jazz charts.
There is an extensive selection of 3rd party plug-ins that allow you to do much much more than what you can out of the box.
And I have found there to be an enormous wealth of information and support for Sibelius users.


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## Daryl (Dec 14, 2013)

There are two issues to consider with this topic.

1) Which is better to use now? There is no doubt that Finale can do certain things better or more quickly than Sibelius, but it really depends on whether or not you want those things. In my career I've never missed these notation possibilities by using Sibelius. However, the things that Sibelius does better save hours of time, and I use these features every time I type a score. Finale is trying to catch up, but is still years behind when it comes to some every day functions.

2) Which is the better long term prospect? Obviously Avid has shot themselves in the foot by firing the Sibelius team, and there is no guarantee that they will be able to deliver anything past Sibelius 8 (which was pretty much done before the team got fired). Leaving aside the moral aspect of a greedy, grasping, parasite of a company that is Avid, I wouldn't bet on Sibelius keeping its market share over the next few years. For me the most exciting thing is the prospect of the new application from Steinberg. Not only is the team very experienced, but they have a golden opportunity to create something new, without being hampered by all the old stuff from previous versions. Having said that, there will be nothing for a while, so it doesn't help current decisions.

To conclude, if I was starting again, leaving aside moral considerations, I would still buy Sibelius, because for normal daily use it is way quicker to get a reasonable looking score and parts than Finale, but would see what the new Steinberg application brings to the table when it finally arrives. FWIW I am still using Sibelius 6, because I never liked the look of Sibelius 7 (other than the Acorn version....!).

D


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## jamwerks (Dec 14, 2013)

I'd DL the trials and decide for yourself. They're on the same level imo, but have different strengths & weaknesses.

Should be to long for the new 3rd child from Steinberg, developed by the original team from Sibelius...


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## composeradrian (Dec 16, 2013)

small update on the future of Sibelius:

http://www.sibeliusblog.com/people/avid ... -sibelius/


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## dedersen (Dec 16, 2013)

I'm really anxious to see what the previous Sibelius crew, now with Steinberg, will come up with. They've explicitly stated that they are working on a stand-alone application right now, but I am keeping my fingers crossed that this will eventually lead to a hugely improved score editor within Cubase.

http://blog.steinberg.net/

Their blog is a really interesting read, btw.


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