# Epic Fantasy Suite



## Guy Bacos (Jan 10, 2010)

Another demo from the VSL download collection, this time Epic horns. I've never been an epic type composer so this demo is more of an epic inspiration within my own genre.

Epic Fantasy Suite

Epic Fantasy Suite (part 2)



I appreciate any comments, thanks!

Guy


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## Nino Rajacic (Jan 10, 2010)

*Re: Fantasy Epic Suite*

Nice work, I really like how you used Epic horns in romantic way. Strings are also very nice sounding, nice piece overal. 

Only thing that I noticed is bit lack of dynamics ithe first part, some crescendo parts sounded bit weak, at least I expected bit stronger climax, especially in brass. Other than that second part is awesome, and VSL shines the way you using it there.

I really enjoyed listening


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 10, 2010)

*Re: Fantasy Epic Suite*

Thank you Nino, your comment was just what I needed. I was able to easily fix it, the mistake I had done was to reduce the volume way too much in the climax section to avoid compressing because of the strong dynamics, but when I just checked the meters now I saw I had a lot of headroom left and this abled me to unleash the original dynamics I had shrunk. Have another spin.


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## tmhuud (Jan 10, 2010)

Guy - just so you know. THeres a bit of a reverb tail left at the beginning. Overall I really liked the piece although I have to admit the piece sounded artistically like TWO different pieces sort of 'kluged' together.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 10, 2010)

tmhuud @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> Guy - just so you know. THeres a bit of a reverb tail left at the beginning. Overall I really liked the piece although I have to admit the piece sounded artistically like TWO different pieces sort of 'kluged' together.



Thanks Terry,

Since it's a "demo" piece dedicated to an instrument for VSL, my goal is more to feature that instrument in as many ways possible in the shortest time to give the person an idea the articulations involved, ex trills, flatter or fast repetitions, this is why I went into a crazy section . But as a piece, I would naturally not put both sections together. You are right, they are forced together.


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## Jack Weaver (Jan 10, 2010)

Playing around with some new ambiences, eh Guy?

.


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## tmhuud (Jan 10, 2010)

Ok- it sounds a lot more homogenous now. Before it sounded like 2 separate demos. The opener still has a bit of a Harold Kloser epic sound and the end sounds a bit more like it was composed a hundred years ago if that makes sense. Sorry its hard for me to give time specifics since there is no counter in min and sec on my QT. 

But is sounds a LOT more cohesive and I think stylistically its borderline but it DOES work.

Recording wise-everythings placed rather well. Ambience - I like although I think for this piece I would have preferred using thew Disney Hall. (Something a tad brighter) The choir might be able to come up a bit - The piano - I would have used an entirely different sound. More processing I think. Your probably using the VSL Imperial which is really hard to make sound more modern. It just has this real classical feel to it.

I would work on the end just a bit to make it sound a bit more modern.

Hey this is fun! Thanks for rescuing me from my Sibelius work.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks again Terry,

Like always you are right. I know I had some issues with this piece, in certain places.
Next time I'll send it to you first


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## theheresy (Jan 10, 2010)

beautiful piece. very well put together. can you please state which strings you used and what reverb and reverb settings you used because it was flawless


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## germancomponist (Jan 10, 2010)

Guy, your composition is very cool as also the sound. I enjoyed listening very much.

BTW, you mixing is getting better all the time. 

Best,

Gunther


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## A/V4U (Jan 11, 2010)

theheresy @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> beautiful piece. very well put together. can you please state which strings you used and what reverb and reverb settings you used because it was flawless



I just can agree 100x. Guy can you share as thehersey is asking for. Curious too. TIA


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks Gunther, I'm glad you appreciate my mix evolution, this one was pretty difficult because the epic horns (6 horns) take so much space, and I had to feature them as much as possible, sometimes I would of preferred to have the strings take over.

theheresy and A/V4U,

Thanks. Since it's all VSL, the strings are as well. I use appa, orchestra strings, chamber, expressivo, and solo, in different combinations, If I have, say a six part string section, each line is treated differently, the work here is to tweak it just right, to make the right combinations, to get the nicest texture possible. It's a bit of an investment, but once you find some interesting combinations and realistic textures it goes quite fast for future pieces. If ever I'd do a video I could show that in more details, but as I once said, I'd have to first find a way to make a downloadable video that people would not be able to copy. Anyway, as for the reverb, I used Berlin concert large hall and some Sydney opera house, but varying just right the distance for each section and within the section, again can be better demonstrated in a video, hopefully I can make it happen. Todd AO has a richer sound but at the end it gives me too much EQ problems. There are also few tricks I do to make the strings sound smoother, but that's the basic of it.


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## germancomponist (Jan 11, 2010)

Guy, why not do a video and load it up on youtube? You can insert always (all 30 sekunds, for example) your name there in the video, what makes sence marketing wise for you.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 11, 2010)

germancomponist @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> Guy, why not do a video and load it up on youtube? You can insert always (all 30 sekunds, for example) your name there in the video, what makes sence marketing wise for you.



How would I profit from that?


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## theheresy (Jan 11, 2010)

YES good idea make a vid on youtube pretty pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease


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## germancomponist (Jan 11, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> germancomponist @ Mon Jan 11 said:
> 
> 
> > Guy, why not do a video and load it up on youtube? You can insert always (all 30 sekunds, for example) your name there in the video, what makes sence marketing wise for you.
> ...



Personally, your name worldwide. The money comes on your next films then. 

*First video = as a marketing tool.* o/~ 

Without joking, I think this is not a bad idea.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 11, 2010)

I have no problem sharing though a video, but I have to pay my dentist today and I would love to give him a copy of the video instead, but I doubt he'll go for the deal.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 11, 2010)

I've decided to make it 2 separate pieces and add some real voices in the first part, I'm also processing the piano as Terry suggested.


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## germancomponist (Jan 11, 2010)

I wanted to sell my edited Kontakt-EWQLSO Platinum instruments but it seems that I am not allowed. But to share my editing can`t be forbitten. So I do a video where I show it..., for free.


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## Nino Rajacic (Jan 11, 2010)

tmhuud @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> Guy - just so you know. THeres a bit of a reverb tail left at the beginning. Overall I really liked the piece although I have to admit the piece sounded artistically like TWO different pieces sort of 'kluged' together.



Yeah, exactly sounded like mistake and not intention


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## madbulk (Jan 11, 2010)

I think the second part is much stronger, musically sonically and in terms of showing epic horns. So I agree completely with breaking it up, apart from the kludgy thing.
I agree that the piano is a bad fit as well, and I'll add that there's a close voicing or two in there that I like compositionally, but would question the voicing and perhaps it's the fault of the piano itself.
Gotta say, I don't at all like the way epic horns sits in the first part. I think it sounds very synthy. I understand that your mandate, Guy, is likely to put them right out front and be epic as hell about it, so your choices are limited.


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## theheresy (Jan 11, 2010)

Guy, can you share more info about your reverb/panning setups though? Do you do the early reflection separate buss trick then add master track with TAIL? How do you pan your instruments and do you use any other plugins to get such a full stereoscopic rich sound? Do you pan in VE or in your DAW (Cubase??)


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 11, 2010)

madbulk @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> Gotta say, I don't at all like the way epic horns sits in the first part. I think it sounds very synthy. I understand that your mandate, Guy, is likely to put them right out front and be epic as hell about it, so your choices are limited.



Really, it sounds very synthy? Can you be more specific? Is it more at some point or everywhere? I'd be curious to know if others feel that way.

As for the rest, I think it's pretty much taken care of, it's now broken up into 2 pieces. I like the piano voicing, I think the piano sound works better now.

Thanks!


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## madbulk (Jan 11, 2010)

Perhaps synthy is too broad. But yeah, for me it's all over. I think there are a lot of long notes here, and it's a tough sell. Sounds like a patch and not a section. I don't like the way the crossfades to the brighter samples behave in this context. The synthyness as I think of it comes from the limited sample set behaving the same way time and time again. The lengthened legatos sound weird to me. I'm wondering about the lungs on these players. I can hear that you put a lot of care into it. 

I've always been on the side that emphasizes that you (we) write for the sample instruments. And I don't like this fit. I think you're in a tough spot. Even if you think I'm just crazy, understand that I'm mostly thinking epic horns just isn't much fun to hear this way for very long. In short doses, I've always loved the lib. But it wears out quickly for me.


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## madbulk (Jan 11, 2010)

And we're all assuming of course that it's the imperial grand, and you're again in a tough spot, Man.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 11, 2010)

madbulk @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> And we're all assuming of course that it's the imperial grand, and you're again in a tough spot, Man.



Well it is, but I must admit I didn't take the time to process the piano for this, I think it works fine now.


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## theheresy (Jan 11, 2010)

madbulk @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> Perhaps synthy is too broad. But yeah, for me it's all over. I think there are a lot of long notes here, and it's a tough sell. Sounds like a patch and not a section. I don't like the way the crossfades to the brighter samples behave in this context. The synthyness as I think of it comes from the limited sample set behaving the same way time and time again. The lengthened legatos sound weird to me. I'm wondering about the lungs on these players. I can hear that you put a lot of care into it.
> 
> I've always been on the side that emphasizes that you (we) write for the sample instruments. And I don't like this fit. I think you're in a tough spot. Even if you think I'm just crazy, understand that I'm mostly thinking epic horns just isn't much fun to hear this way for very long. In short doses, I've always loved the lib. But it wears out quickly for me.



wow..I'd like to hear your mockups, they must be better than hans zimmer's. I thought the horns are virtually perfect along with every other aspect of the first part...one of the realest mockups I've heard.


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## theheresy (Jan 11, 2010)

I keep listening to this thing over and over WOW..Guy plz share your panning/reverb secrets


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## theheresy (Jan 11, 2010)

p.s. there's only one part where the horn does sound synthy and it's exactly at :48 when it hits that high note it feels like it cuts off in velocity a little too quickly


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## Przemek K. (Jan 11, 2010)

Well, I will not say anything about the composition since you know I like it 
But the reverb...is it MIR ?


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## JBacal (Jan 11, 2010)

Always a pleasure to listen to your work. I'm a big fan of your talent!

I agree with TheHeresy that the fp note at :47 sticks out as slightly strange. 

Also I would like to hear a bit more development of the second part. I wasn't ready for it to end when it did. But hey, that's easy for me say since I don't have to slave over it. :lol: 

Best wishes,
Jay


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks everyone for all the thought out comments.

theheresy,

I really appreciate your kind words. 

As soon as I figure out a solution for a tutorial video that is cool for both sides I promise I'll let you know. 

Thanks for the 47s accented note, I hope it's fixed now.


Przemek K.

Not MIR, but I imagine it will send better when I get MIR.


Thanks Jay! I know it ended abruptly, but it was a union break.


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## sherief83 (Jan 16, 2010)

Love it! good job guy!!


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 16, 2010)

Guy,

I don't know if you use one, but an EWI will make Epic Horns sound amazing. This is good, but the connection is better facilitated with an EWI

(yes, I'm an EWI fanboi)


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks Sherief!  

Nathan, what is an EWI? Tell me about it.


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## mverta (Jan 17, 2010)

Brecker, "Original Rays": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGvYrzemJOw

_Mike


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 17, 2010)

Thanks for the link Mike.

Interesting technique. Ok, I'll start taking lessons, maybe in 10 years I'll be able to use it. :wink:


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