# Getting a bad feeling about..



## AC986 (Oct 7, 2014)

Ebola.

This is beginning to look like the plague if it goes completely wrong. Western world has acted far too slowly shutting down transport arteries?


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## gbar (Oct 7, 2014)

That's irresponsible journalism at work. Next up,shark attacks are increasing along with escalator deaths.


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## chimuelo (Oct 7, 2014)

Get a good feeling knowing that someone sent a residual force to help establish a front line over in West Africa rather than waiting for infected folks to spread this around the globe.

The media is simply trying to remain relevant in an era where they failed by not reporting on issues really important to Americans like the IRS, VA, the Marine in Mexico, who is the only person that can't cross over into the USA right now, and over compensating to the point where they all sound like Fox News.

I learned about Russian soldiers going into the Crimea during the Olympics from a Mexican Newspaper, all while NBC had commentaries on how great Putin was.

At some point people should just realize world media is a divisional tool used by the very people deciding who sits in power around the globe.
Before the media actually had investigative journalism and unfiltered/approved editing.
Over and over we see the benefit to those getting the ad money from a 100 million dollar Senatorial race in North Carolina, or Kentucky.
Why would they actually go back to being an investigative tool that serves the citizenry when they can fatten up shareholders by following instructions ??


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## snowleopard (Oct 7, 2014)

Agree completely with Gbar. 

It's like all the hysteria about ISIS/ISIL. 

When journalists cover it wall-to-wall, viewers get the impression it's dominating the world. 

Just for starters, compare the number of ebola cases to those killed by the flu.


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## G.E. (Oct 7, 2014)

+1 gbar
That's why I put actual effort in avoiding the news. I would rather risk being uninformed of important issues than having to listen to 24/7 fear mongering.


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## chimuelo (Oct 7, 2014)

But they aren't really being irresponsible, they are serving their shareholders.

General Electric owned NBC at the same time as their CEO headed the "Obama Jobs Council" that never created jobs, nor had a representative from Small Business with a seat at the table.
GE did get approval to send 25,000 jobs to China instead of here, and the entire XRay Division now has relocated.
Did MSNBC or NBC make any mention of this treasonous act. Nope.
So you see this isn't irresponsible journalism, they served their masters rather well.


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## snowleopard (Oct 7, 2014)

chimuelo @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> But they aren't really being irresponsible, they are serving their shareholders.



While there is much truth to what you say, it's also pasted right on the front of NPR, or the PBS News Hour and their website. So it's not just shareholders, it's lazy journalism as well. 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/


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## AC986 (Oct 7, 2014)

You guys don't understand.

Unless they come up with a vaccine, you only have to use your imagination. One of these gets loose in London and New York during the incubation period, you've got hell on earth on your hands.

How are you going to track down that many contacts? And when you've tracked down the contacts, where are you going to start on the contacts that the contacts have, have had?

Without a vaccine, you then have wide spread panic. No one goes out of their house. Market meltdown. Financial chaos.

And what if it mutates? What if it already mutated years ago? WHO first became aware of this in 1975.

Discuss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbt9oVTwWi4


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## Greg (Oct 7, 2014)

adriancook @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> You guys don't understand.
> 
> Unless they come up with a vaccine, you only have to use your imagination. One of these gets loose in London and New York during the incubation period, you've got hell on earth on your hands.
> 
> ...




"But health officials haven't seen real world cases of the virus spread by casual contact in public, such as sitting next to someone on a bus, said Dr. Tom Frieden, the CDC director."

My imagination doesn't see the pandemic happening, sorry.


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## G.E. (Oct 7, 2014)

adriancook @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> You guys don't understand.
> 
> Unless they come up with a vaccine, you only have to use your imagination. One of these gets loose in London and New York during the incubation period, you've got hell on earth on your hands.
> 
> ...



We definitely should be vigilant, but unnecessary fear doesn't help. Since it's not airborne and can only be transmitted through bodily fluids, the risks are lower. Just think about how many HIV infected people live among us right now. Do you see an HIV outbreak happening ? It's true that the vomiting, diarrhea and bleeding makes it somewhat tricky, but still...

Because of the clear symptoms, it's easier to know when you are exposed and avoid it. Containing the virus is also easier. It also helps to put Ebola in perspective. Since 1976, Ebola has infected fewer than 10 000 people and killed fewer than 5000. That’s in Africa, where over 1 billion people live. By contrast, measles still kills 120 000 people every year and killed over 2 million a year in 1980.


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## AC986 (Oct 7, 2014)

HIV is blood related. Blood. Back the 80s the big question was mutation. Viruses have a nasty habit of mutating. HIV did not, as far as anyone knows.

Bodily fluids. Let's talk about body fluids.

When I speak to you and you speak to me in real life, whether I like to not, I spit involuntarily. And so do you. And so does everyone. That is body fluid. You breath spit all the time. Good way of catching flu for example. We generally don't spit blood.

How do you know what the clear symptons of anything is, when in incubation period?

I've had measles. These viruses kill people with certain issues. Ebola kills 90% of anyone it infects.

Discuss.


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## Greg (Oct 7, 2014)

adriancook @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> HIV is blood related. Blood. Back the 80s the big question was mutation. Viruses have a nasty habit of mutating. HIV did not, as far as anyone knows.
> 
> Bodily fluids. Let's talk about body fluids.
> 
> ...



"But health officials haven't seen real world cases of the virus spread by casual contact in public, such as sitting next to someone on a bus, said Dr. Tom Frieden, the CDC director."


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 7, 2014)

Yesterday we switched between Al Jazeera, CNN, and MSNBC, and they all had the same feed of the same doctor blathering on with no new information.

It's just ludicrous.

Having said that...



> compare the number of ebola cases to those killed by the flu



Well okay, but people killed by the flu (the types going around every year anyway) have other weaknesses that cause their bodies not to be able to fight it off. You or I aren't likely to die if we get the flu, we'll just be miserable for a few days.

Ebola is a whole lot worse than that, even if the odds of dying in the western world are much lower than in an African village.

The threat of another pandemic wiping out a lot of the human race is certainly real, especially now that we live in such a small world. It's happened several times, most recently 100 years ago when I think 5% of the world's population died.

But if you can trust the reports, ebola isn't going to do that unless it mutates.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 7, 2014)

Time to get your flu shots, by the way!


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## AC986 (Oct 7, 2014)

The Plague killed off half the population of Great Britain first time around. Just from a flea bite.


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## snowleopard (Oct 7, 2014)

Okay, if the flu isn't potent enough for you, let's talk about HIV/AIDS. 

The number of deaths from AIDS related illnesses is around 16,000 per year, over 40 people per day. 

More than 1.1 million people in the United States are living with HIV infection, and almost 1 in 6 (15.8%) are unaware of their infection. There are 50,000 new HIV infections per year. Even with modern awarness that's 137 people a day in the US alone or nearly six people every single hour.


But if everyone wants to go ahead and panic about ebola, be my guest.


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## gbar (Oct 7, 2014)

adriancook @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> You guys don't understand.
> 
> Unless they come up with a vaccine, you only have to use your imagination.



I'd rather not, thank you  I'm not addicted to being hypervigilant, and I'd be more worried about that doing me in than anything else if I were.

If your goal is to get worked up about things you can't control or do much about that could cause big problems, you're never going to relax and do interesting things like...

composing music  Or whatever it is you do do (not a fecal joke--just terrible grammar0.

Trust me, there is no end to possible horror scenarios once you wander into the realm of skewed probability.

I bet you have a bigger chance of slipping and falling to your death in your own shower or tub.

And good God! Don't drive ever.


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## germancomponist (Oct 7, 2014)

chimuelo @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> At some point people should just realize world media is a divisional tool used by the very people deciding who sits in power around the globe.
> Before the media actually had investigative journalism and unfiltered/approved editing.
> Over and over we see the benefit to those getting the ad money from a 100 million dollar Senatorial race in North Carolina, or Kentucky.
> Why would they actually go back to being an investigative tool that serves the citizenry when they can fatten up shareholders by following instructions ??



+1


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## chimuelo (Oct 7, 2014)

I never get flu shots, I never get the flu, maybe I eat properly and have good genes, so the fear of death and mayhem never coerces me into taking something that seems to be controversial in it's chemical breakdown.
Another thing is I always played by the rules and had my kid get the usual federal vaccinations.
But at a school townhall meeting parents who didn't want their children getting vaccinated came armed with reports and facts about autism yet they were treated terribly by other parents that made the school board folks happy as they sat back and watched the fireworks.
A question that had no answer from the health "officials" and board members was why they worried so much about unvaccinated kids if there wasn't any fear of children with vaccinations now catching the disease, as getting vaccinated would prevent this...?

They sat silent as an economics professor wanting others to practice their theories while never taking such a risk on themselves.


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## madbulk (Oct 7, 2014)

I don't get the flu shot generally either. But I probably should more often. I also haven't gotten the flu in a long time. 
Clean living, me and chimuelo. Or we're just lucky.

In either case there however is where we split, my friend.

Economists are by and large too smart to give pat answers to complex and dynamic problems when asked for a magic bullet. Economics is an artsy science.

Your non-vaccinating parents may have come armed with facts, but they didn't come armed with truth and so if they were treated terribly it's because they're a tiresome threat to society. Not to be indulged.

I'm not worried about my kids getting sick. I'm worried about THEIR poor innocent kids getting sick.

Silence on the part of the school board is unfortunate but simply irrelevant. It does not follow that the well meaning but misinformed parents had a point. They didn't.


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## AC986 (Oct 7, 2014)

gbar @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> adriancook @ Tue Oct 07 said:
> 
> 
> > You guys don't understand.
> ...



I'm sorry but are you a qualified psychiatrist?


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## madbulk (Oct 7, 2014)

Qualified, or accredited? Where's the bar here on Universe Repair?


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## José Herring (Oct 7, 2014)

Be comforted in the fact that Ebola is extremely hard to get. 

The Black Plague was the result of rats getting out of control in a dirty filthy Europe that also found it fashionable never to bathe. That place was rife for disease.

Be comforted in the other fact that you'll sooner die from a heart attack, cancer or stroke before you die of Ebola. 

Every disease should be cured, just chalk Ebola up on the list.


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## AlexandreSafi (Oct 7, 2014)

Usually, i would be on the ignore-fear-mongering side, but i'm sorry, this time this looks pretty serious... Don't know if it's mainstream, but according to some reports, i definitely heard of airborne possibility, international flights (twice), and USA cases... Anyways, just as a suggestion, i found this interesting video, with some advice proposed if... (good Ytb channel by the way...)
Ebola - What You're Not Being Told:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnQVUf775VE

Serious or not, i really hope we all manage to understand the situation sooner than later...


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## chimuelo (Oct 7, 2014)

Head Cheese is nasty, showers on a daily basis is a must.

Just seeing chicks with hairy armpits and legs in Turkey sent me back into the Hotel room.

I was mesmorized by the Olive skin and blue/black hair, even risked the bad looks from local tribesmen we were getting, but once they waved and the big furball was seen, I bailed.

Seeings how I loved womens legs too, I had flashbacks of me chatting to some nice babe and rubbing the hair on her shins....
Furgeddaboudit... :cry: 

I also remember the AIDS scare but my 3rd eye always ignored my logical thinking and had a mind of his own.
Guess I got lucky there too.

I expect a Fox News flash any day with jpeg's of those damn pesky Mexicans in groups of 20 scurrying across the border bringing with them Liberian suicide ebola bombers from the Jihadist group named after it's leader " Hassen Bin Sober."


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## madbulk (Oct 7, 2014)

I only got as far as the guy's youtube handle, "StormCloudsGathering." 
Ignore.


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## jleckie (Oct 7, 2014)

Theres too many people in the world anyways...

Just saying.


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## G.E. (Oct 7, 2014)

> Ebola - What You're Not Being Told:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnQVUf775VE


Only watched the first 2 minutes and I can already tell you that this guy is a cherry picker. Yes, it's absolutely true that a study was conducted where Ebola was transmitted from a pig to a monkey through aerosol. What he doesn't tell you is that it was never proven to be transmitted from one monkey to another monkey using the same method.

Could anyone link a video of Alex Jones talking about this subject ? I could use a good laugh.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 7, 2014)

Until a few days ago, I got my headline news from cnn.com. That ended with the following big banner headline:

"FIRST CASE OF EBOLA HITS U.S.-IS IT TIME TO PANIC?"

I didn't bother reading the article- I just erased the CNN webpage from my iPad.


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## germancomponist (Oct 7, 2014)

josejherring @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> Be comforted in the fact that Ebola is extremely hard to get.
> 
> The Black Plague was the result of rats getting out of control in a dirty filthy Europe that also found it fashionable never to bathe. That place was rife for disease.
> 
> ...



+1

Here in Germany they talk about a faked disease..... . Who will make the money with which vaccine?


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## NYC Composer (Oct 7, 2014)

jleckie @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> Theres too many people in the world anyways...
> 
> Just saying.



Why?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 7, 2014)

> Okay, if the flu isn't potent enough for you, let's talk about HIV/AIDS



Oh, no question there are other diseases to worry about a lot more.

What worries me the most is that we're running out of antibiotics.


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## choc0thrax (Oct 7, 2014)

Ebola will certainly kill billions of us just like Y2K did but I think there may be a more efficient killer secretly lurking all around us: US.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/30/weve-killed-off-half-the-worlds-animals-since-1970/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... ince-1970/)

While it's a somewhat less immediate, more complex issue - and thus, of course, less concerning - I still think we need to be worried about the possibility of eventually killing off most of the life on the planet. Some scientists have begun to speculate that such a thing could lead to a murky, poorly understood phenomenon known as "repercussions". I know I'm deathly afraid of higher cheese prices and the possibility of a baconless future hellscape.


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## gbar (Oct 7, 2014)

josejherring @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> Every disease should be cured, just chalk Ebola up on the list.



Evolution will keep supplying new disease :(

Until you can crank out safe and effective bespoke antibodies pretty much on-demand for very low cost, there will be something.

This one might get more attention now, but where's the profit motive for a pharmaceutical when the largest outbreak ever is in the low thousands for those infected?


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## NYC Composer (Oct 7, 2014)

gbar @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> josejherring @ Tue Oct 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Every disease should be cured, just chalk Ebola up on the list.
> ...



Which is where some huge NGOs might step in. The Gates Foundation is heavily invested in curing malaria. While I have some doubts about the possibility of shutting it down before it mutates (always a problem with Malaria) they are making a difference and saving lives.

There will need to be government funding as well, which is always easier to get when first world citizens panic.


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## Greg (Oct 7, 2014)

> +1
> 
> Here in Germany they talk about a faked disease..... . Who will make the money with which vaccine?



Why, shareholders of biopharm companies of course! CMRX provides the experimental drug that is being used on the patient in Texas.

https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:CMRX

Whoever the Govt choses to throw funding at for these experimental drugs and more so, purchase stockpiles from is going to get their shareholders extremely rich.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics ... rading-law

Starting to put shit together? If not, have a look into SIGA... 

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/13/nation/la-na-smallpox-20111113/3 (http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/13 ... 20111113/3)


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## gbar (Oct 7, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> Which is where some huge NGOs might step in. The Gates Foundation is heavily invested in curing malaria. While I have some doubts about the possibility of shutting it down before it mutates (always a problem with Malaria) they are making a difference and saving lives.
> .



Not to denigrate the work of NGOs, but their contribution to combating malaria is largely supplying nets, other mosquito control, basic supplies and procuring off-the-shelf already-available treatments and supplying doctors and nurses.

Over 100 million people a year are infected with malaria, and over a half-million die every year (more than 50,000 a month). Most of the people infected are in poorer equatorial regions, but it's still a large enough market to where big pharma is workng on advanced treatments and possible vaccines.

For example, I am pretty sure Glaxo has a vaccine in the trial phase. Maybe that will keep folks from getting a dominant flavor of malaria.

It ain't NGOs that are going to make a serious dent in that one, I am afraid. They've been trying for decades, and still hundreds of millions get infected and 100s of thousands die.


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## gsilbers (Oct 7, 2014)

i just keep reading that ebola is really hard to to get and you get it if you touch/share an infected persons liquids. yet a lot of the cases being shown in the news the poeple were close to patients but nothing indicateed that they were touching their saliva, urine , blood etc. 
so maybe the cdc got it wrong and getting its about the same as getting a flu. someone neaby sneazes or touches somehting you later touch.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 7, 2014)

gbar @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> NYC Composer @ Tue Oct 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Which is where some huge NGOs might step in. The Gates Foundation is heavily invested in curing malaria. While I have some doubts about the possibility of shutting it down before it mutates (always a problem with Malaria) they are making a difference and saving lives.
> ...



Parts of what you say are true, and parts not. The Gates people are working on a vaccine and have poured many many millions into doing so. I have been contributing to bed net organizations for years and reading a fair amount about malaria, and that is decidedly not all they do. A few clicks on Google will inform you.

Sonia Shah has written an excellent book on malaria-"The Fever." She's also about to release a book on cholera in Haiti.

You're right regarding the nasty problem malaria is-unfortunately clean water, the drainage of swamp pools, the mutation of mosquitos, it's all a pretty difficult problem. The Gates people came up with a vaccine that was approximately 50% effective, but they've been unable to work miracles yet. Still, it is better than it was. The nets are somewhat effective. It's all bricks in the wall of the problem.

There's no particular reason the larger NGO's won't work towards a cure for Ebola. They don't need Glaxo. To an extent, Glaxo needs them, as they are partnering with governmental agencies and have boots on the ground to deliver, let's say, potential cures for more financially rewarding vaccines.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 7, 2014)

Malaria evolves faster than drugs, it's nasty, but it's not fatal if you're treated (which isn't to say that lots of people don't die from it).

It's also not a virus, which I think makes it easier to deal with. But I could be wrong about that.


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## simonmac (Oct 8, 2014)

Some http://www.scpr.org/news/2014/10/02/47120/how-contagious-is-ebola-really/ (info) regarding how contagious the Ebola virus is:


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## AC986 (Oct 8, 2014)

Oh thank you Simon. I love charts.




(As an aside to NickB & Larry) Christ, we're all going to die.


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## gbar (Oct 8, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> The Gates people came up with a vaccine that was approximately 50% effective,.



Umm, no. That was Glaxo (GSK). The Gates Foundation contributed 200 million dollars toward its development and production. Glaxo is in it for about 350 million (and with an expected profit margin of 5% over production costs, it may never turn a profit).

Joe Cohen, the co-lead researcher, had been working on a vaccine for nearly 30 years (he is now 70) at GlaxoSmithKline. Joe Cohen has been working on this longer than GSK has been GSK (he started on it when the company was SmithKline & French (1987)). The Gates Foundation got on board in 2001 after the first trials in the 1990s were complete.

The Gates Foundation's financial contribution was not insignificant, and it no doubt will lower final costs (because profit margins can be lower than they would be for a 500 million dollar investment), and it will be NGOs like the Gates Foundation that are largely the buyers of the vaccine, but Glaxo made a long-term commitment and committed a lot of share-holder resources long before the Gates Foundation was on board with no real expectation of ever turning a profit.


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## Daryl (Oct 8, 2014)

I don't think that HIV is a fair comparison as there are specific circumstances that have to happen in order to be infected. It would certainly be impossible to infect someone with HIV by sitting next to them on a bus, whereas I don't think that this has been proven with Ebola.

D


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## snowleopard (Oct 8, 2014)

Daryl - Did you see Simon's chart above?


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## Daryl (Oct 8, 2014)

snowleopard @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> Daryl - Did you see Simon's chart above?


Yes, it means nothing because everything is circumstance specific and circumstances are different for different people. That chart is not about people sitting next to one another on a bus.

D


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## gbar (Oct 8, 2014)

snowleopard @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> Daryl - Did you see Simon's chart above?



That chart is one dimension: contagiousness. The other significant dimension is infectiousness.

Ebola strains aren't very contagious (you have to come into direct contact with body fluids). They are very infectious, however. You don't need to come into contact with much.

Measles is very contagious, but it is far less infectious. It's a bigger problem because it is more contagious, but you must come into contact with more of the pathogen.

That being said, unless you are working with ebola patients, you probably shouldn't be very worried. The news media can distort your perception of threat level because they sensationalize things and under-report other things, so this kind of skews your perception.

If, for example, every single auto-accident fatality in the US alone was broadcast on CNN, they'd have to report nearly a 100 of them a day, so they wouldn't have time to cover much else. Some folks, no doubt, would stop driving.


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## snowleopard (Oct 8, 2014)

gbar @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> The news media can distort your perception of threat level because they sensationalize things and under-report other things, so this kind of skews your perception.


Completely correct. 

Speaking of underreporting, Greg's post above perfectly illustrates that. I'm, one who actually pays attention to the plutocracy, and understand that corruption, cronyism and bribery are what truly is ruining this country in a vast, bi-partisan way, and even I missed that bill passing, and this all but tucked away article on it.


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## AC986 (Oct 8, 2014)

A chef once told me that he was having a life assurance questionnaire.

The guy asked him from a list of questions 'have you ever had HIV AIDS'

To which the chef replied 'fuck me no! don't wanna get that again'

The question itself is total nonsense when you think about it.

Listen you imbeciles.

I've had Mumps & Measles and Christ knows what. I didn't die.

If I get Ebola I'm almost certainly going to die under present [email protected]%£@£$

Vomiting and hurling all over my loved ones and pets probably. Jesus! Wake up!!!


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## gbar (Oct 8, 2014)

adriancook @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> If I get Ebola I'm almost certainly going to die under present [email protected]%£@£$
> 
> Vomiting and hurling all over my loved ones and pets probably. Jesus! Wake up!!!




And if you win the MegaMillions lottery, you can retire immediately.

Neither event is likely to happen to you.

You are far more likley to die a long-suffering prolonged death due to a large number of other causes.

If you want to worry about things, at least be a bit Bayesian about it


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## snowleopard (Oct 8, 2014)

It's still equally likely you're going to be beheaded by an ISIS member. 

Look at it this way. We all go eventually, with modern methods of travel you now have more choices with the way you go if you take action now. 

After all, life is filled with fear and terror.


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## G.E. (Oct 8, 2014)

Adrian, just lay off the golf course for a while and you should be fine. You never know where those balls have been. :D


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## AC986 (Oct 8, 2014)

gbar @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> adriancook @ Wed Oct 08 said:
> 
> 
> > If I get Ebola I'm almost certainly going to die under present [email protected]%£@£$
> ...



*I AM RETIRED FFS!!!!*


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## gsilbers (Oct 8, 2014)

Daryl @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> I don't think that HIV is a fair comparison as there are specific circumstances that have to happen in order to be infected. It would certainly be impossible to infect someone with HIV by sitting next to them on a bus, whereas I don't think that this has been proven with Ebola.
> 
> D



some of the accounts from people who got infected said pretty much they sat in a car next to someone with ebola and that's how they got it. they helped the person get in a car and rode them to the hospital.


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## AC986 (Oct 8, 2014)

gsilbers @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> Daryl @ Wed Oct 08 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think that HIV is a fair comparison as there are specific circumstances that have to happen in order to be infected. It would certainly be impossible to infect someone with HIV by sitting next to them on a bus, whereas I don't think that this has been proven with Ebola.
> ...



I've already explained about when people talk. They spit. That is body fluid. Just check your computer screen if you don't believe it.


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## simonmac (Oct 8, 2014)

gbar @ 2014-10-08 said:


> snowleopard @ Wed Oct 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Daryl - Did you see Simon's chart above?
> ...



As I understand it, The R0 number of any particular virus is derived from the assumption that everyone in the populace is equally susceptible to infection and also the infectiousness of the virus is taken into account as well as the incubation period and likelihood of finding infected people and preventing spread. An R0 of 2 (as ebola has) is of course scary, as it implies an exponential increase, grains of rice on a chess board and all that. BUT, as ebola victims are not contagious until they exhibit symptoms, then it's relatively easy to contain by simply quarantining everyone who had contact with the infected person BEFORE they exhibit symptoms themselves. That way the R0 immediately becomes zero. Even with large swathes of the population this shouldn't be too hard to implement in a total pandemic emergency eg. everyone stay at home and don't have contact with anyone outside for 21 days. Presuming the virus doesn't mutate to being airborne of course. Then we're well and truly f**ked.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 8, 2014)

And that's what R0 doesn't include: how widespread the virus is to start with! Measles is all around, but thank goodness ebola isn't.

(Thanks for posting that, by the way - I didn't know about R0.)



> (As an aside to NickB & Larry) Christ, we're all going to die.



In the meantime we're all going to live.


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## AC986 (Oct 8, 2014)

What's happening with the cop in Texas?

I've been reading about flu and measles. These are biohazard level 2 viruses.

Ebola is biohazard level 4. There is no level 5.


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## gsilbers (Oct 8, 2014)

adriancook @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> gsilbers @ Wed Oct 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Daryl @ Wed Oct 08 said:
> ...



doesnt the flu get transimited the same way?

also this
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/08/world/eur ... ?hpt=hp_t1

for being something hard to be contagious, it seems poeple are getting very easily.


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## Mike Connelly (Oct 8, 2014)

That article says eight cases of Ebola in Europe, seven of whom contracted it in Africa then came back. The eighth is the only confirmed person so far to have contracted it outside of Africa. While there may be others in Spain who turn out to have it, numbers like that don't seem like people are getting it "very easily".


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## chimuelo (Oct 8, 2014)

In spite of the cacklings big thumbs up for the President.
Maybe others will follow instead of look the other way like Ruanda.
In that part of the world Bush, Bono and Obama are heros more there than their own homeland, sad actually.
They deserve more credit for good things like this.


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## JohnG (Oct 8, 2014)

adriancook @ 8th October 2014 said:


> I've already explained about when people talk. They spit. That is body fluid. Just check your computer screen if you don't believe it.



Or in my case, when I compose, I drool and weep copiously.

I've seen FB posts blaming Obama for Ebola. Same number of syllables, both start with a vowel, and ends in an 'a' I suppose.


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## G.R. Baumann (Oct 8, 2014)

I posted the thread about air transportation import risks a few days ago. I think such information is valuable.

Observing the current reporting in papers and other channels, it is astonishing, going full spectrum, from describing it as harmless for the rest of the world to doomsday kabooom, here is the end of days scenario.

Fact is, the virus is in USA and Europe already.

No one in the mainstream media speaks of highly possible bio-terror scenarios! This risk alone would demand much stricter handling of that situation in my humble opinion.

Or take just another situation for example: 

What about our schools after vacation in Europe? Why is no one demanding that parents are asked whether they had been in one of the high risk countries during holidays? A simple and common sense measure to reduce risk one would think.

Not happening as far as I am aware.


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## gsilbers (Oct 8, 2014)

Mike Connelly @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> That article says eight cases of Ebola in Europe, seven of whom contracted it in Africa then came back. The eighth is the only confirmed person so far to have contracted it outside of Africa. While there may be others in Spain who turn out to have it, numbers like that don't seem like people are getting it "very easily".



im not talking about amount of poeple. its HOW those people got ebola. 

the incubation period is longer, so its not as spreadable as flu and others but still, pretty scary. 

one main issue i see is that if passengers get ebola and board the plane w/o syntoms then they will pass the airport inspections in developed countries. and once inside it will be like that dalas dude who just died. 
so imo thats the tricky part of the long incubation period.


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## snowleopard (Oct 9, 2014)

Keeping in the spirit of VI. Anyone here watching *The Strain?* I have only seen part of one episode and it was too much for me. How did you like the music by Ramin Djawadi and or Brandon Campbell?

Anyone watch *Helix* on SyFy? That show is both cool, and kooky I think. I like Reinhold Heil's music more here than some of his other work. But that's my taste. 

Do either of these shows make you feel creeped out? Infected? Like something similar is just around the corner? That they are inspired by outbreaks like Ebola and life could really be like this in our society?


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## AC986 (Oct 9, 2014)

Never seen it.

I keep thinking that the UK national TV networks have been told not to show Outbreak.


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## AC986 (Oct 9, 2014)

JohnG @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> adriancook @ 8th October 2014 said:
> 
> 
> > I've already explained about when people talk. They spit. That is body fluid. Just check your computer screen if you don't believe it.
> ...



It gets worse as you get older.


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## G.E. (Oct 9, 2014)

snowleopard @ Thu Oct 09 said:


> Keeping in the spirit of VI. Anyone here watching *The Strain?* I have only seen part of one episode and it was too much for me. How did you like the music by Ramin Djawadi and or Brandon Campbell?
> 
> Anyone watch *Helix* on SyFy? That show is both cool, and kooky I think. I like Reinhold Heil's music more here than some of his other work. But that's my taste.
> 
> Do either of these shows make you feel creeped out? Infected? Like something similar is just around the corner? That they are inspired by outbreaks like Ebola and life could really be like this in our society?



I've seen both those shows and I love them. But to answer your question, no. I don't feel like Ebola is going to bring forth the zombie/vampire apocalypse. :lol: 
The music didn't particularly stand out for me on either of them.


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## gbar (Oct 9, 2014)

JohnG @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> adriancook @ 8th October 2014 said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen FB posts blaming Obama for Ebola. Same number of syllables, both start with a vowel, and ends in an 'a' I suppose.



LOL.Oh lord, I can already see crazy old men with tea bags stapled to tri-corner hats holding signs that include "Barak Ebola" in whatever looney rant will fit on a piece of cardboard.

Perhaps you could write circus music cues to be used in news broadcasts covering such?


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## Mike Connelly (Oct 9, 2014)

gsilbers @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> im not talking about amount of poeple. its HOW those people got ebola.



Either way, I still don't see anything in that article that makes it sound like people are getting it very easily.


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## snowleopard (Oct 9, 2014)

gbar @ Thu Oct 09 said:


> Perhaps you could write circus music cues to be used in news broadcasts covering such?


Now we're talkin'! 

I'm wondering what happens when Ebola mutates with Mad Cow. Think of the apocalyptic possibilities! 

What about Contagion? Are they showing that one on TV this week?


----------



## NYC Composer (Oct 9, 2014)

gbar @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> NYC Composer @ Tue Oct 07 said:
> 
> 
> > The Gates people came up with a vaccine that was approximately 50% effective,.
> ...



You're right, "came up with" was erroneous. "Underwrote much of the cost.." Is more accurate. Also-they are will be supporting innoculation and education.

There's a whole 'nuther problem with NGOs taking over funding of what was previously the province of governmental and WHO funding- if the foundations get discouraged and move on to other initiatives, it might be hard to put the old coalitions back in place. However, that's an entirely different discussion.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 9, 2014)

adriancook @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> gbar @ Wed Oct 08 said:
> 
> 
> > adriancook @ Wed Oct 08 said:
> ...



.... And you've allowed that to mellow you.... :wink:


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## NYC Composer (Oct 9, 2014)

snowleopard @ Thu Oct 09 said:


> gbar @ Thu Oct 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps you could write circus music cues to be used in news broadcasts covering such?
> ...



Prions are pretty fckin' scary.


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## gbar (Oct 9, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Thu Oct 09 said:


> snowleopard @ Thu Oct 09 said:
> 
> 
> > gbar @ Thu Oct 09 said:
> ...



If it makes you guys feel any better, the conversation on this thread is very intelligent compared to what I just read on Yahoo comments and Politico comments. i think my brain needs a shower now.

Mostly, there's every response from overt racist nonsense to politicizing the response (which I think could be fairly criticized for being inadequate so far) by claiming sending troops and medical teams to contain it "is the biggest mistake ever".

So take heart, on the other side of the coin (where one side is blind panic), there's an uglier picture where people think that if it isn't contained it poses no threat to us at all.

So there are degrees of... umm... can't think of a kind word for it. Well, let's just say the political nuts are really out of it :(


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## NYC Composer (Oct 9, 2014)

News article commentary leads me to suicidal ideation .


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## clarkus (Oct 9, 2014)

Ebola is hard to transmit. It's not airborne. You've got nothing to worry about.

Here's an infectious disease specialist saying the same thing.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-north ... you_b.html


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## AC986 (Oct 10, 2014)

Oh thank you Clarkus. I love infectious disease specialists. Especially when they say the same thing.


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## snowleopard (Oct 10, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Thu Oct 09 said:


> News article commentary leads me to suicidal ideation .


Speaking of, huge props to USA Today for partaking in actual journalism. Their front page today has an article on suicide in America, of which has reached epidemic numbers. 40,000 a year, or one every 13 minutes. 

As our country becomes one more and more of individuals, feeds off greed, and trumpets Ayn Rand's "Virtue of Selfishness", we turn a blind eye to this staggering statistic. All while bordering on paranoia that Ebola (this month, ISIL last) is going to kill us at any moment if we don't do something.


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## gbar (Oct 10, 2014)

snowleopard @ Fri Oct 10 said:


> NYC Composer @ Thu Oct 09 said:
> 
> 
> > News article commentary leads me to suicidal ideation .
> ...




Well, it's probably in everybody's interest that ebola is contained.

It's math. At a couple hundred cases, you figure tracing contacts is maybe looking up 50 * 200 or 10,000 possible contacts on average to find out if any of those people are infected and to insure that they restrict their movement/interactions, and the disease burns out.

At 8,000 infected, that's a number like 400,000 possible contacts to trace, so that has overwhelmed the system in the countries affected, so they need help to contain it, or it will spread, and as the number of people infected increases, the number of contacts to trace increases even more, so doing nothing is not an option. 

It needs to be contained, and there is zero possibility of maintaining the illusion that an infectious disease observes things like borders, political leanings, etc.

We're all in this together, so it's in the world's interest to contain this now because if we don't, it's possible that in a few months, it could go global.

That being said, I'm not worried about it. Steps are being taken, and right now there is about zero chance this will affect me. I'd hate to have to change my risk assessment, and I'd hate to see hundreds of thousands or millions of people die, so... containing it now is the right thing to do.

Also noteworthy, the forest region of New Guinea, where patient zero was infected, is now a place nobody wants to go, so the people there face another deadly problem: possible starvation.

People facing starvation tend not to sit there and die quietly of starvation. They tend to move. So that's something else that has to be handled.

Also, there's the question of hospital beds. The countries affected have less than 1,000 beds. They need 2,000-4,000. The US is building 500. That could slow things, but it's not enough to fully contain the problem, so more help is needed for food , quarantine construction, etc.


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## snowleopard (Oct 10, 2014)

gbar @ Fri Oct 10 said:


> That being said, I'm not worried about it. Steps are being taken, and right now there is about zero chance this will affect me.


And that's my point exactly. While we should take steps to contain it, we're basically ignoring some of the other, major issues that affect our society in much greater numbers, such as the staggering facts on sucide. 

_"Americans are far more likely to kill themselves than each other. Homicides have fallen by half since 1991, but the U.S. suicide rate keeps climbing. The nearly 40,000 American lives lost each year make suicide the nation's 10th-leading cause of death, and the second-leading killer for those ages 15-34. Each suicide costs society about $1 million in medical and lost-work expenses and emotionally victimizes an average of 10 other people."_

http://www.usatoday.com/longform/news/nation/2014/10/09/suicide-mental-health-prevention-research/15276353/ (http://www.usatoday.com/longform/news/n ... /15276353/)

:(


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## clarkus (Oct 10, 2014)

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2014/10/ebola_ebola_e (http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-north ... la_ebola_e) bola_should_you_b.html

I'm not sure anyone read this, but it's from someone who actually knows something about pandemics. This is not one. The article I am citing was forwarded to me by a doctor who is similarly sanguine. This is a situation tailor-made for panicky speculation. But the profile of this particular illness just doesn't rise to the level necessary to warrant all this hysteria. 

You can stop stockpiling and go back to what you were doing ... worrying about the midterm elections, maybe.


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## AC986 (Oct 10, 2014)

gbar @ Fri Oct 10 said:


> Well, it's probably in everybody's interest that ebola is contained.



Get away??


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## chimuelo (Oct 11, 2014)

img host


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## AC986 (Oct 16, 2014)

So how's the Ebola thing going down in the US?


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## NYC Composer (Oct 16, 2014)

adriancook @ Thu Oct 16 said:


> So how's the Ebola thing going down in the US?



"Hi, I just came back from Liberia. I have a fever and may have been exposed to Ebola."

"Take a seat in the waiting room and we'll get to you as soon as possible. It's a busy afternoon."

"Ok, you've been examined- you have a high fever. Go home."

Reductio ad absurdum, obviously-but you gotta wonder about low information people.

Media is making big advertising dollars from this, so there is huge tv coverage and ther eare screaming headlines. The usual protectionists want to "close the borders". Allow no flights from West Africa. Problem is, there aren't any- they're all through Europe. CDC says if you keep people from West Africa from flying in legally they'll come in through other means and we won't be able to track them. Also, there are plenty of people in West Africa who are holding American passports. So. One death here, growing panic.


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## AC986 (Oct 16, 2014)

Yes Larry that's about how I see from this side of the pond vis a vi the US reports coming in. Is there a guy there called Dr Friedlan or something like that who makes reports on the crisis. Don't like what I hear coming from him atm. He's too laid back. He's not at all frightening. He should be.

If the Ebola virus spreads to 15 other African countries that's all hell breaking loose and all airlines and shipping in and out will be stopped immediately. So far the death rate seems to be exponential. If it carries on doubling every month, then that's all hell breaking loose again.

Anyone want to mention the flu again?


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## NYC Composer (Oct 16, 2014)

Adrian my friend-

Panic solves nothing. Panic crashes stock markets, runs on banks, racial incidents; it fills emergency rooms with people who have minor colds, not good. Authoritarian figures SHOULDN't be frightening. They should be calming whilst also projecting credibility so that people don't panic.

Concern is another matter. Almost every major health official I've seen has said we need to contain it in West Africa if we want to keep it from spreading here (Europe, North America etc) because "closing the borders" won't stop immigration or travel. What about journalists, aid workers, health professionals, businesspeople? People holding American or European passports, any of whom could be contagious? If we try to contain it in West Africa, we protect ourselves as well. 

Additionally, it will be much easier to respond to and contain Ebola in countries with robust medical systems.

Anyway, why are you worried? Aren't you almost as old as I am? Whats the worst that could happen? :wink:


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## AC986 (Oct 16, 2014)

Larry I want to spread fear. Fear is my middle name. 

I'm saying that Dr Friedman should be one of the four horseman, but you need to get a point across. A nurse light years away in Texas has no business getting ebola.

Besides, I thought the stock markets had crashed. Best place for them imo.

Why am I worried? I am older than you Larry and the remaining years that I have should not include projectile vomiting.

That's all I'm saying here. 

And another thing. Emergency rooms are filled with minor ailments already. Mostly drunks actually.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 16, 2014)

adriancook @ Thu Oct 16 said:


> Larry I want to spread fear. Fear is my middle name.
> 
> I'm saying that Dr Friedman should be one of the four horseman, but you need to get a point across. A nurse light years away in Texas has no business getting ebola.
> 
> ...



You seem far too experienced with emergency rooms, drunks and projectile vomiting. 

Which reminds me, it's almost cocktail hour!


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## AC986 (Oct 16, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Thu Oct 16 said:


> adriancook @ Thu Oct 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Larry I want to spread fear. Fear is my middle name.
> ...



I wish I could join you. Cocktails in New York sounds ridiculously Breakfast at Tiffanys. I want it! I want it now!!!!

However, I've just been informed that I'm about to watch a film that involves Denzel Washington flying an airliner upside down. Here goes!!


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## Hannes_F (Oct 23, 2014)

Just in case somebody feels like doing something about it: Avaaz.org has asked their members for voluntary helpers, and thousands have signed. What comes out of this we will see, as there are certain criteria for anybody going there. However everybody can help with a litte funds. This is what the staff of Avaaz writes:



> Dear friends,
> 
> In the last two weeks, thousands of courageous members of our movement have volunteered to fly to West Africa and help contain the deadly Ebola virus. It's an act of heroism and a testament to the interdependence we all feel as part of this global community.
> 
> ...



More info about volunteering:
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/ebola_volun ... ?slideshow

More info about helping with some money:
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/ebola_fr_ed_ctrl/?trDSKab


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## G.R. Baumann (Oct 24, 2014)

Hello Hannes,

I would like to state that they are a US based NGO, founded by Mr. Rick Patel, operating as "Avaaz Foundation", 857 Broadway, New York, N.Y., and incorporated in the state of Delaware. 

They stated that they are


> helping to create a pool of potential volunteers for frontline humanitarian organisations, including Partners In Health, International Medical Corps and Save the Children



Partners In Health:

http://www.pih.org

International Medical Corps:

https://internationalmedicalcorps.org

and Save the Children: 

http://www.savethechildren.net

So, without sharing details about my sceptical opinion on Avaaz here, I'd rather ask why not contact the above three organisations directly if someone plans to volunteer?


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## G.R. Baumann (Oct 24, 2014)

further:



> Please be advised that, at this time, Doctors Without Borders is no longer recruiting specifically for the Ebola emergency in West Africa.


http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/work-with-us

Last but not least perhaps some financials, for the year 2012, Avaaz stated 22% costs base for fundraising and general management of Avaaz with 78% going to programs and services. - Keep in mind this is an online based petition campaign organisation. -

Doctors without borders, 13.6% while 86.3% went into programs and services. - Worth remembering, they operate in the field and well, I think it is fair to say, organisational and management demands are much higher than those of a online petition campaign site.


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## Hannes_F (Oct 25, 2014)

G.R. Baumann @ Fri Oct 24 said:


> why not contact the above three organisations directly if someone plans to volunteer?



Perhaps because Avaaz has a bigger user base than those organisations? No need to badmouth a good thing because you might (perhaps) know a better one (better for your subjective point of view, that is).

Anything actually done, and even if it is a small donation of which 22% may go into the pockets of Avaaz, is better than doing nothing but lame jokes about the topic in an internet forum.

Excuse me, G. R. Baumann, but that badmouthing of humanitarian actions of others is a typical example of that heart- and lifeless intellectualism that I don't care about, at all. Since one can criticise anything it leads to criticising everything and doing nothing.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 25, 2014)

Actually, both organizations fare better than The Red Cross or United Way, both if which have HUGE operational costs.

Hannes, I think G.R. is saying that it's important to know where your charitable dollars are going because there are a lot of charities that pay themselves too large a portion of your money. It's important that the largest part of your money is going to the people you intend to give it to.


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## G.R. Baumann (Oct 26, 2014)

Hannes_F @ Sat Oct 25 said:


> G.R. Baumann @ Fri Oct 24 said:
> 
> 
> > why not contact the above three organisations directly if someone plans to volunteer?
> ...



Gimme a break!

I explicitly said that I am NOT sharing details of my rather deeply sceptical opnion on Avaaz here, and I didn't. I was neither making lame jokes nor badmouthing humanitarian actions. 

Yes, I made that important point, to be double cautious when considering to give away your hard earned.

There are professional and established organisations that deal with such disasters on a regular and in the field basis that deserve our direct support.


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## G.E. (Oct 26, 2014)

Epidemiology expert, Doctor Chris Brown has spoken: https://twitter.com/chrisbrown/status/5 ... 9696312321
We are all officially doomed !


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## NYC Composer (Oct 26, 2014)

I can't wait for his take on malaria.


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## AC986 (Oct 26, 2014)

Haha. All deadly viruses and deadly diseases are a form of population control. And if that fails, old age is a great leveller when talking about population control.

Here's the thing that I can't stand. 

You get people coming on tv and telling people that Ebola is difficult to contract. That doesn't really make any sense does it, when you examine the facts and West Africa. When I see people having to be taped into their bio suits, statements like that come across as patronising in the extreme.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 26, 2014)

Adrian, do you deal with a lot of people's' bodily fluids?

Wait, don't answer that.


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## AC986 (Oct 26, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Sun Oct 26 said:


> Adrian, do you deal with a lot of people's' bodily fluids?
> 
> Wait, don't answer that.



I'll answer but only if you let me breath into a brown paper bag at the same time Larry.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 26, 2014)

adriancook @ Sun Oct 26 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sun Oct 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Adrian, do you deal with a lot of people's' bodily fluids?
> ...



Ummm- ok?

Heh.


----------



## NYC Composer (Oct 26, 2014)

snowleopard @ Fri Oct 10 said:


> NYC Composer @ Thu Oct 09 said:
> 
> 
> > News article commentary leads me to suicidal ideation .
> ...



By happenstance,I've been re-reading Matt Taibbi's fascinating "Griftopia", where I first learned that Alan Greenspan was a longstanding member of Ayn Rand's inner circle. Then he went and led the Fed, which Randians didn't believe in.


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## chimuelo (Oct 26, 2014)

And married Andrea Mitchell too, making her a valuable insider for reporting.
Virtual Blue Blood.

Glad to see some States taking Ebola seriously during fundraising season.
Sad too that this doctor is getting bashed so badly.
Sure he made some bad judgement call, but probably caused smarter people to get involved locally, bypassing the new Trail Lawyer/Ebola Czar.
Again a lawyer, always on the losing team too promoted to a position to make us Feel good and give an appearance of "concern."

Saw a doctor making requests for a Hero Hotel.
This means those brave people who are on the front lines don't get housed in an Ellis Island style detention area but get a nice welcome home in a hotel with others travelling from the areas in question.
At least they get treated with respect for their services instead of being treated like outcasts.

For non medical travelers they get a hotel too, but pretty much coach seating until their incubation period is over.

Why can't we have smart people like this in charge instead of these political payback activists, advocates and trust fund babies getting groomed for failure by this inept inner circle of campaign donors children and relatives...?


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## AC986 (Oct 26, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Sun Oct 26 said:


> adriancook @ Sun Oct 26 said:
> 
> 
> > NYC Composer @ Sun Oct 26 said:
> ...



Larry afaik, I don't deal with other peoples body fluids. The point is, I don't want to.


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## AC986 (Oct 26, 2014)

Either voluntarily or otherwise btw.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 26, 2014)

chimuelo @ Sun Oct 26 said:


> And married Andrea Mitchell too, making her a valuable insider for reporting.
> Virtual Blue Blood.
> 
> Glad to see some States taking Ebola seriously during fundraising season.
> ...



Because we're broken, and apparently smart people aren't as profitable as dumb rapacious people.


----------



## AC986 (Oct 26, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Sun Oct 26 said:


> chimuelo @ Sun Oct 26 said:
> 
> 
> > And married Andrea Mitchell too, making her a valuable insider for reporting.
> ...



They are in and going towards panic mode. They should have sorted all this out at the very beginning.


----------



## chimuelo (Oct 26, 2014)

Congress is on a historically long fundraising campaign to keep those jobs that pay a low 6 figure salary.
The Commander In Cletes is golfing since his own Liberal redistributors don't want to be seen with him.
I even noticed today watching the Games there's no commercials for campaigns, have seen only a few actually this time, so that is the best news really as I avoid that multi billion dollar purchasing of politicians and the associated lies and ads from corporations telling us we are sick and we need their drugs.
Maybe it's better when these phucks are on long vacations and gone.

I do the same by getting my Holiday shopping over the 1st week of November.
In that way I can avoid the maggot gagging sounds of smooth jazz Christmas Carrols by Kenny G. and other sexy sounding players.

I wonder if the States could just handle the nations affairs for 2 years and let Obama's bosses and Congresses owners just travel the world and maybe ruin their economies, and just leave us alone while ObolaCare unravels.

What a great Christmas gift that would be.
Send our trial lawyers to the Middle East w/ the ACLU and War On Women advocates, they'll soon beg us to retrieve these useless people and succumb to our demands.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 26, 2014)

chimuelo @ Sun Oct 26 said:


> I wonder if the States could just handle the nations affairs for 2 years and let Obama's bosses and Congresses owners just travel the world and maybe ruin their economies, and just leave us alone while ObolaCare unravels.
> 
> What a great Christmas gift that would be.
> Send our trial lawyers to the Middle East w/ the ACLU and War On Women advocates, they'll soon beg us to retrieve these useless people and succumb to our demands.



Thank God that our brave state Representatives, Senators and Governors aren't corrupt, otherwise with the Federal government gone, they'd have to steal twice as much from their own folks to catch up. Then there would be the state- based initiatives:

Alabama would outlaw public education and bring religious instruction back into schools. Texas would start requiring all citizens to be armed at all times, and the incidents of men accidentally shooting their nuts off in public bathrooms would increase. New Jersey would start highway blockades as well as bridge closings for all politically recalcitrant mayors.
Colorado would start putting pot into pizzas and taxing them, thereby selling three times as many pizzas.

Ah, the glorious day when the States finally and truly represent The People....


----------



## gbar (Oct 26, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Sun Oct 26 said:


> Thank God that our brave state Representatives, Senators and Governors aren't corrupt, otherwise with the Federal government gone, they'd have to steal twice as much from their own folks to catch up. Then there would be the state- based initiatives:
> 
> Alabama would outlaw public education and bring religious instruction back into schools. Texas would start requiring all citizens to be armed at all times, and the incidents of men accidentally shooting their nuts off in public bathrooms would increase. New Jersey would start highway blockades as well as bridge closings for all politically recalcitrant mayors.
> Colorado would start putting pot into pizzas and taxing them, thereby selling three times as many pizzas.
> ...



Now that's funny. I wish I were funnier sometimes 

But it overlooks some local complexities that would involve things like Austin & San Antonio, Atlanta, & Athens, Tempe & Phoenix, and Memphis all seceding from their states. The rest of New York State would secede from NYC and Westchester.

California would break up into at least three smaller states: Northern California, Southern California, and The San Joaquin .

Southern California and The San Joaquin would declare war on Northern California in order to try and grab control of the waterways.

Memphis would put tollbooths up at Arkansas and Mississippi, and demand that guest workers from those states pay an additional tax in Memphis. Something similar would happen with NYC and NJ.

Etc.

The ensuing economic turmoil would send rural communities back to the 17th or 18th century for the most part.

Scratch off the thin veneer of Federalism, and it'd be chaos. We'd pretty much look like the Middle East for oil territories and the FSU (former Soviet Union) for the rest of the states.

See? That's not funny :( My comedy gifts are sparse :(


----------



## NYC Composer (Oct 26, 2014)

gbar @ Sun Oct 26 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sun Oct 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank God that our brave state Representatives, Senators and Governors aren't corrupt, otherwise with the Federal government gone, they'd have to steal twice as much from their own folks to catch up. Then there would be the state- based initiatives:
> ...



Hey it's pretty funny! :wink: 

It also supports my theory that we haven't really evolved that far from our simian forebears. We're still shrieking at each other, masturbating and throwing bananas for the most part. The thin veneer of civilization we've acquired breaks down pretty fast when times get tough, and the bigger louder simians still rule and hoard most of the bananas.

Our friend Chim has this much right- the Powers that Be have Blue and Red at each others' throats whilst their interests mainly lie in Green....and I ain't talkin' 'bout global warming.


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## chimuelo (Oct 26, 2014)

Even the Greenies are all about Green.
Often wondered why wealthy Liberals would go on about subways under water and Polar Bears and could never understand why they would sink millions of dollars into their beachfront property.
Then I read about FEMA deciding to get into the insurance rackets created by the Sicilian Mafia in the early 20th century.
FEMA guarantees x-amount of dollars based on the amount of coverage.
When you over insure the property you are guaranteed tax payers will cover the current appraisal rates.
It reminded me of a Concrete Company based in Valley Park, MO. that a friend of mine's father owned. Every Winter Concrete business slowed to a crawl as the Winters there are pretty brutal and they didn't have chemicals like Plasticizer that allows cold weather pouring.
But the river would flood and he could collect insurance on lost business, even though the earnings were based on an average work week during the regular season.
He made Bank every year and was never asked to relocate his business.

So I think big Al is pretty smart for holding his global warming meeting with anti fracking movie producers and other Hollywood elites so they can meet their Saudi Royal family Green Energy backers in person. All protected by US tax dollars and the Secret Service.
These guys got their shit together when it comes to creating wealth for themselves and their friends.

The gullible middle class never learns and the poor people just want more money for their vote, so this explains why DC booms under Wealth redistribution. They weren't lying either, they just forget to mention that is was being redistributed amongst themselves and their friends.

Saudi guys are especially smart since they know how to hedge their bets.
21st Century Fox is a favorite for them. They not only get to decide how violent movies are, they also have a say in who gets a movie into circulation, so expect more anti fracking movies, and most appearances of Saudi Princes on Fox News since they also have a say in that operation too.

This is why eventually people are going to force some of these Blue and Red folks to unite against the Deep State the wealthiest Liberals and Conservatives actually control.

You look at who pushed through NAFTA, then the Chinese made NAFTA Superhighway we never hear about into the US where trucks are allowed 100 miles inland before they are "inspected" and see who lobbied and who got paid, who voted, etc.
This super highway was created after China bought Mexico's deep water ports, then went to the Liberals in Sacramento to leverage their ILWU agreements where the Longshoresmen were sold out by their Liberal buddies. China had more money than the Unions this time.

Sure there are some good Democrats and Republicans but their voices are drowned out by the partys' elite who have served there for decades fleecing Americans the entire time they pretend to care about the Middle Class.

And talking about sections of states wanting to become the 51st and 52nd State check out who lobbied from Miami/Dade County and Silicon Valley.
This Liberal bastion doesn't try to hide their wealth and power, the Gentry Wing doesn't give a hoot about the poor that so many other Liberals rely on to get elected.
They have moved out middle class and working class folks in the Mission area of San Francisco to the point where there's chaos about inequality in the wealthiest Liberal city in California.
Miami is all drug Lords, wealthy Liberals and Conservatives and they got smart using the Al Gore Green Energy Global warming mantras claiming their city is underwater so they want their own state which thankfully includes the largest corporations and beachfront properties in Orlando and Miami. They can have Tampa and all of those Ghettos, Jacksonville and Gainesville too.

So keep your eyes on the Gentry Wing, they purchased 5 Senators this time. Kentuckys Allison Grimes, Georgia's Nunn, and other areas like Colorado where they already purchased legislation and then made weed legal to control even more people.

Pretty savvy cats these fellows are.
I like them as they don't try and hide the fact they have idiots for voters and will let them snort coke, smoke weed, even give it out to get seats.

You add Wall Street guys to this mix and you can see where they would love having the same divisions and same 2 fake parties.
Let them fight over abortion and weed and stupid things like a minimum wage, and in the meantime the real legislation like Transpacific from last year we never heard about gets passed faster than them exempting themselves from ObolaCare.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 27, 2014)

So you'd vote for a Sanders/Warren ticket then-excellent! :wink:


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## chimuelo (Oct 27, 2014)

I'd rather see someone who actually ran something other than their mouth get elected.


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