# VSL Synchron Brass - intro offer through August 2, 2021



## Evans (Jul 6, 2021)

__





BRASS - Vienna Symphonic Library


Synchron Brass offers a wide variety of articulations and phrases, and features like Timbre Adjust, integrated time-stretching, and the Synchron Player’s release sample technology increase its flexibility and expressive possibilities immensely, allowing you to easily manipulate samples in...




www.vsl.co.at





(there's a Commercial thread on it already, but figure we might want other discussion here)


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## Evans (Jul 6, 2021)

Some snippets:

How does Synchron Brass relate to the Big Bang Orchestra brass libraries?​Synchron Brass includes all instruments and articulations from the Big Bang Orchestra Packs Hercules, Izar, Jupiter and Kopernikus, as well as the super-large brass sections of BBO: Zodiac. That’s why you get crossgrade discounts when you have registered one or more of these BBO Packs and you’re purchasing the Synchron Brass Standard Library or the Full Library.

Instruments​

Trumpet 1 (Marc Osterer)
Trumpet 2 (Peter First)
Trumpet Ensemble (4 players) *
Trumpet Ensemble (6 players)
Horn 1 (Péter Keserű)
Horn 2 (Viliam Vojčík)
Horn Ensemble (6 players) *
Horn Ensemble (12 players) *
Tenor Trombone (Matthias Reindl)
Bass Trombone (Bernhard Vierbach)

Cimbasso (Stefan Hirt)
Bass Tuba (Lukas Hanspeter)
Tenor trombone ensemble (4 players)
Trombone ensemble (9 players) *
Low Brass Ensemble (4 bass trombones + bass tuba) *
Low Brass Ensemble, unison and clusters
(5 players + contrabass tuba) *
Giant Tutti Brass (28 players: 6 trumpets, 12 horns, 9 tenor/bass trombones, 1 tuba)


_* also included in the Big Bang Orchestra series_

Timbre Adjust​As an alternative and addition to velocity crossfade, the Synchron Player offers a brand-new feature: *Timbre Adjust*, assigned to CC8 by default. Especially brass solo instruments are capable of creating subtle volume and timbre variations, and this new intelligent filter lets you apply dynamic changes while staying in one velocity layer. It can also be used to create variants of articulations that have only one velocity layer (such as sforzatissimo) or to prevent velocity crossfade artifacts that may occur with brass solo instruments.


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## novaburst (Jul 6, 2021)

Got my taste bugs going, I think this one was long awaited.


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## muziksculp (Jul 6, 2021)

Finally ! 

Hopefully Next will be : Synchron Woodwinds, and Synchron Solo Strings.


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## Petrucci (Jul 6, 2021)

Ah, oh, my wallet...!)))


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## Evans (Jul 6, 2021)

Something interesting that we get here that we don't often see: two developers covering the same music for an audio demo.

*Also Sprach Zarathustra*
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Series/Synchron_Brass#!Demos
http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-orchestra-opus-edition

Can't find the second one? Look for the "Multi-Track Demos" mixer graphic and use the top-right dropdown:


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## DaddyO (Jul 6, 2021)

FI-nally! Hur-RAH!


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## Casiquire (Jul 6, 2021)

Wow yes!! I knew this would have a great sound and it looks like they delivered. Seems like amazing work. I can't wait to go through all the detailed videos. I probably won't wind up getting it though. I'm well covered on brass, but i think Synchron brass and percussion are a powerful duo



Evans said:


> Something interesting that we get here that we don't often see: two developers covering the same music for an audio demo.
> 
> *Also Sprach Zarathustra*
> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Series/Synchron_Brass#!Demos
> ...


Actually the VSL held its own really well against the old Hollywood Orchestra standard. I think the only thing i liked better in the Hollywood version was the timp.


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Jul 6, 2021)

Some initial, unorganized observations:

Synchron Brass requires a slightly different performance approach than other Synchron libraries, mainly with the introduction of the Timbre Shift parameter. Synchron Brass are the only ones that Velocity Crossfade may be left off, instead opting for normal note velocity to trigger the velocity layer. For long notes _cresc._ or _dim._, if not opting for the pre-recorded patches with that function, the Timbre Shift acts as that function. This of course can be further complemented with the expression parameter, just as one would when using Velocity Crossfade in other libraries.

The trumpets are Bb instruments, which is a departure from the rotary valves used throughout Europe for many years (maybe still?). This immediately brightens the sound compared to previous VSL libraries from the VI Series or Dimension Series. For scoring, the brighter sound is preferable.

The articulations are extremely well-matched, meaning shifting from a _portato_ to a _con fortissimo legato_ sounds like it is of the same performance.

The tuba is a powerhouse now that sounds like it is playing with the section. Tubas can get a bit more of a "brassy" sound, but this is the first library where it sounds right, especially with section playing. "Oomm pah" passages are nice and round. So much less performance massaging needed compared to other tubas.

Cimbasso is very welcome and can be seen as a sort of 4th "contrabass" trombone. Outstanding blend with the bones. Tons and tons of power here.

Horns have a lovely soft solo character perfect for the solo from Tchaikovsky's 5th, flexibility for something like Strauss' _Till Eulenspiegel, _or any of that bloody lip 2015 movie trailer nonsense.

Double tonguing is rendered via the fast repetition articulations, and the trumpets/horns have upbeats that can also be slid around to make nice triplet or 16th figures.

Two legato speeds have the effect of a not-tongued slur, where in one case the valves are "snapped" down quickly, and the other has a bit more lyrical transition. Consider sprinkling in the long articulations for when a little bump of the tongue is needed for additional note definition, even on a slur.

Use the signature presets! There is gold in there for specific scoring applications.


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## Lee Blaske (Jul 6, 2021)

Looks really exciting. VSL is pretty much my go-to for brass, and this takes everything up a notch. VSL really makes some very playable instruments. Looks like this new library is exploring some new technological ground, too. VSL really seems to be putting a LOT of effort into their new releases.


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## cet34f (Jul 6, 2021)

I knew Synchron Brass would be more leaning to media composing, but I did not expect it to exclude an a4 Horn patch.

But it shows the direction of the Synchron product line, which is long-term speaking a good thing. I have missed so many sales due to the uncertainty of the Synchron product line.

I was hoping to get a one-for-all product, but it's clear now I can't save money on this. We need Synchron Brass for media composing and Dimension Brass for classical composing. The two products seem to complement each other well anyway, so building a template around Dimension Brass first then adding the extra colors from Synchron Brass seems like a good order.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 6, 2021)

Evans said:


> Something interesting that we get here that we don't often see: two developers covering the same music for an audio demo.
> 
> *Also Sprach Zarathustra*
> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Series/Synchron_Brass#!Demos
> ...


A rare treat that a piece is (fully?) mocked up in two different developer libraries. They both sound quite good to me. Different of course - OPUS has that Hollywood, full sound to it. VSL's demo had that crisp clarity to it, like a concert stage recording. If I had to pick one, I prefer OPUS personally.


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## muziksculp (Jul 6, 2021)

I wonder how VSL Synchron Brass compares to Orch. Tools : Tom Holkenborg's Brass ?


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## Rubens Tubenchlak (Jul 7, 2021)

Ben, how can we make a gliss with the Tbones??


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## holywilly (Jul 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I wonder how VSL Synchron Brass compares to Orch. Tools : Tom Holkenborg's Brass ?


I don’t have Synchron Brass yet, I have BBO brass pack (which included in Synchron Brass, identical samples) and full TH Brass. Both of them delivered consistent of sample contents and playability in terms of articulation and dynamics.

Sound-wise I think TH Brass is brighter at the high dynamic range, I often layer TH brass on top of BBO for extra bite. And I also find BBO brass has much detailed sound. 
I’ll be getting Synchron Brass for sure, the solo trumpets, horns and trombones are more musical than the solo brass in TH Brass.


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## SlHarder (Jul 7, 2021)

holywilly said:


> the solo trumpets, horns and trombones are more musical


Just noodling around on keyboard with velocity patch, with timbre adjust on controller, with legato auto-speed articulation, gets me some very nice results with almost every instrument. I'm really motivated to explore and utilize SynBrass.


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## holywilly (Jul 7, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> Just noodling around on keyboard with velocity patch, with timbre adjust on controller, with legato auto-speed articulation, gets me some very nice results with almost every instrument. I'm really motivated to explore and utilize SynBrass.


I bought way too many libraries in past few month and I need to sober down a bit in July, luckily the intro price ends on 2nd of August, then I’ll get it! I can’t wait to hand on the solo brass.


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## artinro (Jul 7, 2021)

Any chance you’d consider posting some of the noodling @SlHarder? Would love to hear it.



SlHarder said:


> Just noodling around on keyboard with velocity patch, with timbre adjust on controller, with legato auto-speed articulation, gets me some very nice results with almost every instrument.


You say “almost every instrument.” Just curious, which instrument(s) did you find not as nice?


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## DaddyO (Jul 7, 2021)

*** Deleted by OP *** Re-thought my comments.


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## Drumdude2112 (Jul 7, 2021)

Being i have JXL Brass (have started calling it TH Brass yet lol ?) Berlin Brass , HWB amoungst others i'm trying REALLY hard not to want this , but i DO have a few of the BBO brass i like a WHOLE lot and and this sounds like a helluva package...very 'next level' in fact . (spring/summer releases/sales been TOUGH on me this year lol 😩 )


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## jonathanwright (Jul 7, 2021)

I absolutely love it. This could well end up replacing every other brass library I have, it covers so much ground.


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## Drumdude2112 (Jul 7, 2021)

jonathanwright said:


> I absolutely love it. This could well end up replacing every other brass library I have, it covers so much ground.


You're NOT helping Jonathan lol 😂


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## jonathanwright (Jul 7, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> You're NOT helping Jonathan lol 😂


😊


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## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

DaddyO said:


> It seems a bit too expensive (by about $100)


You know, "we also have to pay for our sandwiches somehow" (just a nice German saying for "we also have expenses and colleagues that would like to get a pay check) 

IMO This library is far too cheap and should be priced closer to 1000-1200€ (regular pricing), especially when considering similar libraries; this library is a bargain, especially at this intro sales prices. This library is sold under value, so I definitly can't agree with your statement that it should be cheaper 



DaddyO said:


> On VSL's SYzd Dimension Brass product page there is only a 2-minute introductory video, no walkthrough that I saw. So I went to YouTube and searched for ANY additional videos (by VSL or third parties) on the library and came up empty. So I eliminated searched for just Dimension Brass, figuring my search terms for Synchronized might be missing hits. Nada, nothing.








VIENNA DIMENSION BRASS I - Vienna Symphonic Library


Vienna Dimension Brass I gives an entirely new meaning to the term multi-samples. These ensemble instruments were recorded with individual microphones. 4 trumpets, 4 horns, 4 trombones, "low brass" (tuba, bass trombone, 2 tenor trombones).




www.vsl.co.at


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## DaddyO (Jul 7, 2021)

Ben said:


> You know, "we also have to pay for our sandwiches somehow" (just a nice German saying for "we also have expenses and colleagues that would like to get a pay check)
> 
> IMO This library is far too cheap and should be priced closer to 1000-1200€ (regular pricing), especially when considering similar libraries; this library is a bargain, especially at this intro sales prices. This library is sold under value, so I definitly can't agree with your statement that it should be cheaper
> 
> ...


Thanks for correcting me. Somehow I missed the longer video. I will remove my posts about this.

Re: cost, you are of course right that it is not too expensive for what it is, just too expensive for me given that it doesn't seem to fit what I do very well. I will keep an open mind so long as the introductory price is around.


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## SlHarder (Jul 7, 2021)

artinro said:


> Any chance you’d consider posting some of the noodling @SlHarder?


I'm not that good on a keyboard, so my noodling needs lots of work to get it presentable. My comment was just based on my initial sense of the playability of the instrument. My wife overheard some of the noodling and commented on "how real that brass sounds". Lots of potential here.

“almost every instrument.” I didn't get thru all of them, but everything I tried exhibited the same attention to detail. The Tutti patch is certainly more than a "sketching tool".

If you have a Vienna key then the 14 day withdrawal policy is a no-brainer. If you don't have a Vienna key it might be worth the investment, I'm sure the 30 day demo is probably coming along sometime soon after the VSL servers catch up with early adopters.


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## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

jonathanwright said:


> I absolutely love it. This could well end up replacing every other brass library I have, it covers so much ground.


I didn't want to hear that. 

Although, I have a nice collection of Brass libraries, and tend to use Brass sparingly in my orchestrations, I tend to use more woodwinds, Strings, and Perc. so adding Synchron Brass would be a big luxury for my needs, but the very positive feedback from users, and testers of this library is creating a lot of GAS.


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## Drumdude2112 (Jul 7, 2021)

jonathanwright said:


> I absolutely love it. This could well end up replacing every other brass library I have, it covers so much ground.


Which Brass lib's may that be lol ?


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## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)




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## biomuse (Jul 7, 2021)

Sounds like diving into a swimming pool full of champagne. Spectacular. 

(No, I've never actually done that. Poetic license.)

Now - do I need it?? ? ?

Question: are there gliss articulations such that you could get a bit Barry with it if you wanted to?


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## Drumdude2112 (Jul 7, 2021)

It really does sound next level.
I have yet to 'jive' with VSL strings (havent tried Elite though) I definitely like their woods (have all the BBO wood packs) but man their brass is FanfreakinTastic !!(my fav of the bbo series by far ) i may even go FULL.
(i'm feelin' cocky lol 😂)


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## jonathanwright (Jul 7, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> Which Brass lib's may that be lol ?


In this case, JXL.


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## CT (Jul 7, 2021)

A demo for this would be great but the return policy is of course great too. I'm not totally sure about what I hear yet. One of those trumpets, I think the 2nd, has some... interesting vibrato. All the huge section stuff is kind of wasted on me too. I get that there's a certain market for that but bundled in with the soloists and more normal sections, adding to their cost, makes me wonder about the actual value for my purposes.


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## Toecutter (Jul 7, 2021)

@jaketanner I put togeter all my notes to answer your question

Q:"Aside from Aaron, what were the others...so that I don't need to do the same.. LOL. I have Century Brass Bundle, BBCSO Pro, Caspian...that's pretty much it. Aside from the BBO Brass that is."

BBCSO Pro, Cinebrass Core and Pro, Sonore, CSB, Berlin Brass, Junkie Brass, Symphonic Brass, Chapman Trumpet and Sample Modeling! LOL

Synhcron Brass' flexibility wins me over right away. The Synchron stage is excellent for brass, the trumpet tone (especially tpt 1) is amazing and so expressive and dynamic. Every note sounds alive and interesting, you can tell it's a real performance behind those samples. The musician gave his all! Programming wise we're talking VSL, they are in a different class imo. Having said that LOL here are my notes (personal babble while I was playing against the solo legatos in this video 

Berlin Brass Trumpet 2, great tone, very expressive but not as dynamic as SB (crossfades are noticeable) and it lacks the bite SB has (like one extra ff layer)

Chapman Trumpet, nice tone, not at all dynamic, one trick pony, clunky legato, showing its age

Cinebrass Core, amazing tone (my favorite) but very limited in dynamic... compared to SB sounds like it tops at mf

Cinebrass Pro, very aggressive, has the bite missing in Core but that's it for me... sounds like they recorded mp and went straight to ff. Some transitions are kinda dodgy too. So why not use CBC and CBP for the bite? Yea that should work but they don't match that well, there's more room baked in the CBC samples

Sonore, awesome tone, expressive af, improved legatos compared to CBC and CBP but it has that 80s Williams vibe only... Synchron Brass can do that and a lot more

CSB, very dynamic, nice tone, I find the performance a bit boring (sacrilege) compared to the SB musicians. I feel that the Synchron player allows more control over the performance. I can hear a lot of variation, like note transitions, different attacks, vibratos, longs etc

Junkie Brass, very dynamic but I can't stand the metallic room sound in this library, it's so different than the beautiful tone captured in Berlin Brass, must be the way they recorded it for Tom. I tried every microphone combination and that nasty metallic sound is always there. My opinion ofc because I know a lot of people swear by JXLB but for me it's a waste of space

Symphonic Brass, awesome tone, very expressive, legato can be a bit clunky sometimes, it's my overall favorite of the bunch but what bothers me is that there's not enough variation in the long notes now that I heard them a million times... the same samples being triggered (especially molto vibrato) break the illusion for me. But still one of my favorite SF instruments ever, the way the player performed in Air... sample magic, too bad it's so limited

BBCSO great room sound, not dynamic at all, crossfades as very noticeable, feels like it goes up to mf and that's it. I think SF should program the long cuivre samples in the legato patch (fake legato, I wouldn't mind) to help a bit. The symphonic brass trumpet is superior in every single way imo


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## José Herring (Jul 7, 2021)

Sounds great. But in every demo I've heard so far the shorts are less pronounced and less biting than the sustains at high volumes. That's going to lead to real problems programming action cues and trailer music.


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## ptram (Jul 7, 2021)

biomuse said:


> Sounds like diving into a swimming pool full of champagne.


It always makes me so sad, thinking to that wasted champagne! :(

Paolo


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## ptram (Jul 7, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> I have yet to 'jive' with VSL strings


I've not understood Synchron Strings at first. Nice, elegant, flexible, yet too cold. I couldn't be hooked by the sound. Not so with the old Orchestral Strings, where I went for the Konzerthaus, Pernegg or the Teldex, going for the sound I’m most familiar to.

Now, after some classical music mock-ups, I find them great. While the stage they are recorded into sounds very different from any other classical recording I know (most of which probably recorded at Teldex), it's a sound that is ideal for any type of music asking for a good blend and clarity at the same time.

This clarity makes shaping melodies and balancing timbres and harmonies very easy. I can't wait to try strings, brass and percussion together, and see how they live in the same space.

Paolo


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## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

Do you think Synchron Woodwinds will sound as good as Synchron Brass when they are released ?

Surely the Synchron Stage is flattering to the Brass family, I hope it does the same for the Woodwinds family.


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## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

ptram said:


> I've not understood Synchron Strings at first. Nice, elegant, flexible, yet too cold. I couldn't be hooked by the sound. Not so with the old Orchestral Strings, where I went for the Konzerthaus, Pernegg or the Teldex, going for the sound I’m most familiar to.
> 
> Now, after some classical music mock-ups, I find them great. While the stage they are recorded into sounds very different from any other classical recording I know (most of which probably recorded at Teldex), it's a sound that is ideal for any type of music asking for a good blend and clarity at the same time.
> 
> ...


Do you still think Synchron Strings, or Synchron Elite Strings sound cold, but got used to the way they sound, or have you managed to warm them up to your taste ?


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## Ben (Jul 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Do you think Synchron Woodwinds will sound as good as Synchron Brass when they are released ?


Well, there are ensemble and FX libraries available in the BBO series, recorded in Synchron Stage as well.


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## Drumdude2112 (Jul 7, 2021)

ptram said:


> I've not understood Synchron Strings at first. Nice, elegant, flexible, yet too cold. I couldn't be hooked by the sound. Not so with the old Orchestral Strings, where I went for the Konzerthaus, Pernegg or the Teldex, going for the sound I’m most familiar to.
> 
> Now, after some classical music mock-ups, I find them great. While the stage they are recorded into sounds very different from any other classical recording I know (most of which probably recorded at Teldex), it's a sound that is ideal for any type of music asking for a good blend and clarity at the same time.
> 
> ...


I got the high & low strings (octaves) in the BBO package...like em alot , they can be useful...Got the violin scetion for bbo (which is the violin section from syncron strings i believe) didnt get on with em' so i didn't get the other sections or buy into syncron strings..i like my strings to have a certain 'thwack' in midrange.
SCS has it , Afflatus has it , Berlin has it , NSS has it actually...(i'm sure there's a few others. but thats off the top of my
head ) 
and i'm not talking about dynamics its a tone thing , and vsl strings just didn't rock me...again , haven't check out Elite..That said i think their woods are great and brass is KILLIN' .


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## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

Ben said:


> Well, there are ensemble and FX libraries available in the BBO series, recorded in Synchron Stage as well.


Hi Ben, 

Oh.. Yes, I forgot about that. But I'm more interested in how the Solo Woodwinds will sound in Synchron Stage. Anyways.. I will check some of the BBO Woodwind demos to hear how they sound in Synchron Stage. 

I'm surely looking forward to see both Synchron Woodwinds, and Synchron Solo Strings.  

Thanks.


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## ptram (Jul 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Do you still think Synchron Strings, or Synchron Elite Strings sound cold, but got used to the way they sound, or have you managed to warm them up to your taste ?


Keep in mind I only have Synchron Strings I and Pro, but not Elite. The one I use the most is SSP.

I wouldn't say I find them "less cold"; I learnt to deal with their character. They are extremely easy to shape at will. They don't force one to adapt to their sound, but easily respond to one's instructions.

It's a noble, classical sound that sounds as listened live instead of after post-processing. In the style of the recent conductors (say, Salonen or Rattle), so often going for a clean, direct, transparent sound, more than for a more opaque blend.

Paolo


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## muziksculp (Jul 7, 2021)

ptram said:


> Keep in mind I only have Synchron Strings I and Pro, but not Elite. The one I use the most is SSP.
> 
> I wouldn't say I find them "less cold"; I learnt to deal with their character. They are extremely easy to shape at will. They don't force one to adapt to their sound, but easily respond to one's instructions.
> 
> ...


Interesting. So, would you describe the 'Character' as not cold, but rather very classical sounding. 

imho. Elite Strings have a different character to the Synchron Strings and Strings Pro. They do sound less classical, and more intimate, and kind of warmer to my ears. 

Thanks.


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## ptram (Jul 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> So, would you describe the 'Character' as not cold, but rather very classical sounding.


"The new wave of classical performance", yes.

The Vienna Instruments Orchestral Strings being the 70s-80s Euro contemporary classical and modern classical way of playing. Thinking to Boulez or Abbado.



muziksculp said:


> Elite Strings have a different character to the Synchron Strings and Strings Pro. They do sound less classical, and more intimate, and kind of warmer to my ears.


From the demos, I would guess they are more neo-classical, in the sense of some contemporary slow-paced and very consonant pieces, where each individual note has to express emotion.

Paolo


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## StillLife (Jul 7, 2021)

I think (or do I hope?) that this library might be overkill if you only use brass in a singer/songwriter context and already own Spitfire Studio Brass?


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## Karmand (Jul 7, 2021)

I have Spitfire Brass - this does fill out some things nicely and they are so smooth, loud, clear good sounding... I'm thinking about it... watching videos. The only thing I don't like about Vienna is that I can only have it on one usb/loc at a time. With others I can have their samples on my main Mac and Laptop. I know, you can move the usb stick - but I have two of those - it was cheaper to have two VEP7 than 1 and their service plan.


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## AEF (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> @jaketanner I put togeter all my notes to answer your question
> 
> Q:"Aside from Aaron, what were the others...so that I don't need to do the same.. LOL. I have Century Brass Bundle, BBCSO Pro, Caspian...that's pretty much it. Aside from the BBO Brass that is."
> 
> ...



the way you described the other libraries that I own (BBC, CSB, and JXL) is so exactly matched with my opinion. This is bad news for me bc it means I will like Synchron Brass even more that I do now pre purchase. Damnit!


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## jaketanner (Jul 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> @jaketanner I put togeter all my notes to answer your question
> 
> Q:"Aside from Aaron, what were the others...so that I don't need to do the same.. LOL. I have Century Brass Bundle, BBCSO Pro, Caspian...that's pretty much it. Aside from the BBO Brass that is."
> 
> ...



Thanks for the details...helps a lot. It's a shame about Cinebrass...I had my eye on it, and nearly pulled the trigger when it was half off...glad I waited. I actually like the tone of BBC Pro...especially the tree mic...the MIX 1 is ass for brass...LOL. The tree give a much nicer tone, but dynamics are short. Also, CB is like 8 years old...sample recording techniques have since changed.

I have Chapman...forgot I had it until now...LOL So never used it.


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## novaburst (Jul 8, 2021)

@Ben and VSL I am wondering if this library can be split up to purchase individual instruments at a time, so we can get ahold of what we need, 

I was able to do this with the VI brass, also Orchestral Tools have the same shopping options,

As with most cases there will probably be instruments that will not be touched throughout the use of the library, also it gives a good incentive to build up the instruments over time if needed,

Also much more easy on the bank account : )


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## daviddln (Jul 8, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Do you think Synchron Woodwinds will sound as good as Synchron Brass when they are released ?
> 
> Surely the Synchron Stage is flattering to the Brass family, I hope it does the same for the Woodwinds family.


Given the quality of BBO Neptune, Orion and Solaris, I think Synchron Woodwinds will be fantastic.


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## dhlkid (Jul 8, 2021)

Anyome bought the full.library? or bought the standard?


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## holywilly (Jul 8, 2021)

Bought full, as always for Synchron series.


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## daviddln (Jul 8, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Bought full, as always for Synchron series.


Me too.


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## Evans (Jul 8, 2021)

Have I missed any audio examples from the user community? It seems like this should be a massive release, yet I don't see the fervor I expected, whereas the Infinite Brass thread has four fresh (small) examples for an update that's about 12 hours old.

EDIT: And yes, part of the point of this post is to provoke people into posting some clips.


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## Ben (Jul 8, 2021)

@Evans It's holiday season and many people recover from all the lockdowns, so it is a little quiter than usual. But we still have a few videos in pipeline, so stay tuned


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## Bastiaan (Jul 8, 2021)

@Ben Is the integration with Studio One (for sound variations) a feature also supported by Synchron Brass, similar to Synchron Strings Pro?


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## Ben (Jul 8, 2021)

Bastiaan said:


> @Ben Is the integration with Studio One (for sound variations) a feature also supported by Synchron Brass, similar to Synchron Strings Pro?


It's automagically supported by all libraries in the Synchron Player


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## jaketanner (Jul 8, 2021)

I am very close to pulling the trigger also...but gonna start with Standard. Been listening to the BBO mic options, and the 4 main ones sound pretty good in this case...If it were a piano, I'd definitely opt for full though.


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## Bastiaan (Jul 8, 2021)

I just pulled the trigger on full - I think those extra mics make a world of difference in terms of the room sound, and thats half the game if you ask me. (ok maybe not half but you get my point :D ). I learned that doing what you do now, but with SSP.

@Ben In terms of dynamic balance with Synchron Strings Pro: is/how was this taken into account? It's safe to assume I will complete the collection when Woodwinds arrive, and I am just wondering how much SSP and SB are "aligned" out of the box.

Thanks.


----------



## Ben (Jul 8, 2021)

Bastiaan said:


> @Ben In terms of dynamic balance with Synchron Strings Pro: is/how was this taken into account? It's safe to assume I will complete the collection when Woodwinds arrive, and I am just wondering how much SSP and SB are "aligned" out of the box


It should match pretty well out of the box.


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## novaburst (Jul 8, 2021)

Well needless to say this is a very good brass library


Toecutter said:


> Junkie Brass, very dynamic but I can't stand the metallic room sound in this library,


love when you can hear the metal in brass instrument i think this time the Synchron stage has played a good enhancement to this library Well done VSL keep it up


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Jul 8, 2021)

Synchron Brass 🤠


----------



## SlHarder (Jul 8, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> pulling the trigger also...but gonna start with Standard


I started with Standard but a couple of days in I know I'll be up to Full before sale ends. This is just toooooooo good!


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## AEF (Jul 8, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Synchron Brass 🤠



Sounds amazing. Glad you recovered well!


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 8, 2021)

Sorry, but what should the Star Wars walkthrough tell us? It‘s a silly imitation of Blakus’ video, with the cappy, the head movements and the look into the camera at the beginning. Coincidence? Don’t know. Just my opinion. I immediately thought of blakus while watching.

I’m a big fan of VSL, but that’s not nice. Please prove me wrong. To be fair, the blakus version is better.


----------



## Evans (Jul 8, 2021)

I don't mind a little goofiness in their videos, and didn't take it as a slight on blakus. And I'm easily offended.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh (Jul 8, 2021)

I mean... this is a video made by a guy who once dressed up as a dog to play a Mozart sonata...


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 8, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Sorry, but what should the Star Wars walkthrough tell us? It‘s a silly imitation of Blakus’ video, with the cappy, the head movements and the look into the camera at the beginning. Coincidence? Don’t know. Just my opinion. I immediately thought of blakus while watching.
> 
> I’m a big fan of VSL, but that’s not nice. Please prove me wrong. To be fair, the blakus version is better.


I didn’t see it as OP making fun of blakus or anything, it looked to me like a completely harmless and fun nod to blakus’ Star Wars video.

In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if blakus himself loved seeing it


----------



## Getsumen (Jul 8, 2021)

Damn, ya'll really memorize a video and matched it with a 30-second clip. I wished I had this good of a memory.


----------



## Karmand (Jul 8, 2021)

Oh, oh, glad I waited... Infinite Brass 1.6 is out and on sale... the bundle is a good deal too.








Infinite Brass — Aaron Venture


Your personal live brass ensemble - playable virtual instruments for NI Kontakt. Perform all articulations with infinite variety. Build your own sections from 26 solo brass instruments and position them as you please in 3 different real spaces, then dial in your preferred mix of 3 different micropho




www.aaronventure.com




Hmmm...


----------



## dunamisstudio (Jul 8, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Synhcron Brass' flexibility wins me over right away. The Synchron stage is excellent for brass, the trumpet tone (especially tpt 1) is amazing and so expressive and dynamic. Every note sounds alive and interesting, you can tell it's a real performance behind those samples. The musician gave his all! Programming wise we're talking VSL, they are in a different class imo. Having said that LOL here are my notes (personal babble while I was playing against the solo legatos in this video
> 
> Berlin Brass Trumpet 2, great tone, very expressive but not as dynamic as SB (crossfades are noticeable) and it lacks the bite SB has (like one extra ff layer)
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'm sold on Synchron Brass now. Just need to wait til payday.


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 8, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Bought full, as always for Synchron series.


What’s the difference between full(as in Pro?) & Standard version. I think the price is a little more too.


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## Bastiaan (Jul 8, 2021)

From the top of my head I am not sure if there is a difference in the number of articulations you get, but the main factor are the additional mic's. If realism in classical/orchestral music is your thing its a must have, as you really hear the room much better and the stereo imaging is much improved.

Just sounds way more realistic, and you can use the handy pre-made mixes to just load the sound you like. Easy. But also uses more RAM.. so keep that in mind.


----------



## markleake (Jul 8, 2021)

Karmand said:


> Oh, oh, glad I waited... Infinite Brass 1.6 is out and on sale... the bundle is a good deal too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why paste this in all the VSL threads though?


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## Chris Harper (Jul 8, 2021)

I believe I saw a Bobby Shew trumpet mouthpiece in the video, which I assume was probably borrowed from one of the performers during filming. Really interesting, because that’s typically known as a jazz lead mouthpiece. I’m wondering if someone used it in the session, or if it was just a spare someone pulled out of the case. Sorry for the totally irrelevant trumpet nerd thoughts….

The library sounds killer. It gets loud but stays focused. Great orchestral players can play really loud without the tone losing focus. There’s definitely a place for spraying fff with growling edginess and “blatting” notes all over the place, but it gets old fast if it’s used constantly. It has become the movie trailer equivalent of the Loudness Wars.


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## AndyP (Jul 8, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> I mean... this is a video made by a guy who once dressed up as a dog to play a Mozart sonata...


Preachers Boss plays the piano. 
Had to think of the series immediately. Very good!


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## holywilly (Jul 8, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> What’s the difference between full(as in Pro?) & Standard version. I think the price is a little more too.


You get extra mic positions. Articulations stay the same.


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Jul 8, 2021)

Chris Harper said:


> I believe I saw a Bobby Shew trumpet mouthpiece in the video, which I assume was probably borrowed from one of the performers during filming. Really interesting, because that’s typically known as a jazz lead mouthpiece. I’m wondering if someone used it in the session, or if it was just a spare someone pulled out of the case. Sorry for the totally irrelevant trumpet nerd thoughts….
> 
> The library sounds killer. It gets loud but stays focused. Great orchestral players can play really loud without the tone losing focus. There’s definitely a place for spraying fff with growling edginess and “blatting” notes all over the place, but it gets old fast if it’s used constantly. It has become the movie trailer equivalent of the Loudness Wars.


Presumably, playing high notes for 2-3 hours that day, _in tune_, with 5 other players for the a6 patches, a couple of the players probably opted to use a screamer mouthpiece instead of their bach 1 1/2 Cs.


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## Chris Harper (Jul 9, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Presumably, playing high notes for 2-3 hours that day, _in tune_, with 5 other players for the a6 patches, a couple of the players probably opted to use a screamer mouthpiece instead of their bach 1 1/2 Cs.



LOL good point… Wimps! 

Playing in tune is overrated anyway. 

But seriously, I have always been amused at the “cheater mouthpiece” epithet. I used to play a Schilke 14A4a all the time for lead work. It’s hard to get that sound from a 1.5C. The only ones worse than trumpet players arguing over mouthpieces are guitar players arguing about strings, amps, cables, pedals, picks, pickups, pots, capacitors, switches, woods… well, everything basically.


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## pinki (Jul 9, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Synchron Brass 🤠



Eek well that put me off.


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## ptram (Jul 9, 2021)

Chris Harper said:


> The only ones worse than trumpet players arguing over mouthpieces are guitar players arguing about strings, amps


Don't let me start about sax players and mouthpieces…

Paolo


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## Saxer (Jul 9, 2021)

ptram said:


> Don't let me start about sax players and mouthpieces…
> 
> Paolo


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## Casiquire (Jul 9, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> @jaketanner I put togeter all my notes to answer your question
> 
> Q:"Aside from Aaron, what were the others...so that I don't need to do the same.. LOL. I have Century Brass Bundle, BBCSO Pro, Caspian...that's pretty much it. Aside from the BBO Brass that is."
> 
> ...



It seems like Berlin Brass holds up better than most against Synchron. Would you say that's accurate? Once the FF later gets added as it gets ported to SINE, would you say that it would do pretty well aside from less smooth crossfades? Idk. I think Synchron sounds really fantastic but Berlin sounds warmer, I like the sound of Teldex better, and I'm not missing any features i need. If it's the next best and the biggest difference is just some weaker crossfading, I'm happy to work with what I've got. I have yet to feel held back by Berlin's crossfades.


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## Casiquire (Jul 9, 2021)

novaburst said:


> @Ben and VSL I am wondering if this library can be split up to purchase individual instruments at a time, so we can get ahold of what we need,
> 
> I was able to do this with the VI brass, also Orchestral Tools have the same shopping options,
> 
> ...


While it's not exactly the same, you could buy your way up from BBO


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## Jay Panikkar (Jul 9, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Synchron Brass 🤠



I got infected with COVID at the 4 second mark, but apart from that I like the clean brass sound. Synchron Elite Strings and Synchron Brass both seem to nailed this clear and precise sonic character without sounding synth-y.


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## Loerpert (Jul 9, 2021)

Did anyone buy it already? Can't really find any content that shows more in depth stuff. Only a short walkthrough of the trumpets and some mockup video's. Really wondering what the horns sound like in detail. Especially the legato transitions. Any demo's of that are much appreciated!


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## jaketanner (Jul 9, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> I started with Standard but a couple of days in I know I'll be up to Full before sale ends. This is just toooooooo good!


Just got a killer deal from a third party dealer for standard. Would Probably get a good deal for full also, but I didn’t ask for that. Might have to get this now.


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## jaketanner (Jul 9, 2021)

Anyone know why they didn't record 2 bones to match the other brass? Seems like a weird decision...unless there is a logical explanation?


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## jaketanner (Jul 9, 2021)

@Ben ..looking at the pictures from the session, it seems that all the trumpets are piston with no rotary trumpets? Is this correct or is it a mix?


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## SlHarder (Jul 9, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Just got a killer deal from a third party dealer


My understanding is you can't use the 14 day withdrawal policy when you don't buy directly from VSL. But I could be wrong ...


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## jaketanner (Jul 9, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> My understanding is you can't use the 14 day withdrawal policy when you don't buy directly from VSL. But I could be wrong ...


Yes that is correct. That’s a drawback, but if you are sure, then there is no worry. It
s always salable...so you're not stuck with it, just can't return it.


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## muziksculp (Jul 9, 2021)

Anyone know what libraries Blakus used to make this Star Wars track demo ?


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## jaketanner (Jul 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Anyone know what libraries Blakus used to make this Star Wars track demo ?



I thought he mentioned it on his channel...but I think I remember him also using bespoke samples.


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## muziksculp (Jul 9, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I thought he mentioned it on his channel...but I think I remember him also using bespoke samples.


There is no info. on this YT video comments, or replies about the libraries he used. Looks like he wanted to keep them secret.


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## Zanshin (Jul 9, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> My understanding is you can't use the 14 day withdrawal policy when you don't buy directly from VSL. But I could be wrong ...


US here. I buy my VSL stuff from Best Service, no euro conversion, no tax, etc. The VSL license has to be manually added to your account so it can take a day or so but is usually fast. Way better price but yes, no return like when you buy direct from VSL, something to personally weigh. 

I had demo'd the BBO libraries some of the brass in this library includes so I felt safe ordering it and was not disappointed. I'm excited for Synchron Winds - the BBO winds were fantastic as well.


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## Drumdude2112 (Jul 9, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Just got a killer deal from a third party dealer for standard. Would Probably get a good deal for full also, but I didn’t ask for that. Might have to get this now.


which third party 😉 ?


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Anyone know what libraries Blakus used to make this Star Wars track demo ?



I think he specifically said he used a ton of stuff from Performance Samples.

I also remember him saying he finds it easier to get a natural sound when he’s using samples with baked-in reverb.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Anyone know what libraries Blakus used to make this Star Wars track demo ?



Post in thread 'Star Wars: Main Title (Blakus) - Why do I do this to myself?'
https://vi-control.net/community/th...hy-do-i-do-this-to-myself.101160/post-4684125


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 9, 2021)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I think he specifically said he used a ton of stuff from Performance Samples.
> 
> I also remember him saying he finds it easier to get a natural sound when he’s using samples with baked-in reverb.


Blakus speaks highly of PS here:



https://www.google.dk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiHq_bTvtbxAhXtk4sKHXMXBrwQFjAFegQIBBAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fperformancesamples%2Fposts%2Fa-few-words-from-blakus-on-performance-samples-librariesvirtual-instruments-with%2F2854730811440059%2F&usg=AOvVaw2WaWiHZ3ZM3mMT1Zs63by7



”The fact that over 90% of my orchestral template consists of samples created by Jasper is testament to his craft."


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 9, 2021)

Sorry for going OT, I forgot this was a thread about SyBrass.


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## muziksculp (Jul 9, 2021)

@Henrik B. Jensen ,

Thanks for the links to the posts about Blakus video. It seems like he layers many articulations, and from various libraries to achieve the sound he wants, and doesn't rely on key-switching instrument articulations on one track. So, lots of customization, and detail are his way to achieve realism, I'm not surprised. We should also note that doing this requires a lot of time. So it depends how much time one has at his/her disposal when working on project.

Now back to Synchron Brass. Given that the Synchron Player is such an amazingly flexible, and powerful tool to layer, and customize instrument sounds, I think it would be wise to take advantage of this, and not just rely on the provided out of the box articulations to get even more realistic results.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jul 9, 2021)

Wow! Thank god they moved to the syncron stage!  Haven't listen to VSL brass demos for a while...


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## jaketanner (Jul 9, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> which third party 😉 ?


Audiodeluxe.com


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## DaddyO (Jul 9, 2021)

I ended up ordering SY Brass this evening despite my initial misgivings that it seemed oriented more towards the "film-scoring" sound than the classical sound I tend to work in. I knew I would regret not taking advantage of VSL's flagship brass library at the intro price, even given it's orientation. The best price I could find was indeed at AudioDeluxe with their USD price plus a small summer sale discount.

Hope I get my license keys tomorrow early.


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## jaketanner (Jul 9, 2021)

DaddyO said:


> I ended up ordering SY Brass this evening despite my initial misgivings that it seemed oriented more towards the "film-scoring" sound than the classical sound I tend to work in. I knew I would regret not taking advantage of VSL's flagship brass library at the intro price, even given it's orientation. The best price I could find was indeed at AudioDeluxe with their USD price plus a small summer sale discount.
> 
> Hope I get my license keys tomorrow early.


audio deluxe is great.


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## DaddyO (Jul 9, 2021)

I had forgotten that I had used AD to buy SY Strings Pro last September. Back when I was first building a library with VI Special Editions I used them a lot.


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## JonS (Jul 9, 2021)

Got the Full Library today, still downloading it!!


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## Zanshin (Jul 9, 2021)

How much out the door at Audio Deluxe for standard?


----------



## ChickenAndARoll (Jul 9, 2021)

Has anyone else had issues with Vienna Download Manager crashing when it starts to install the second part after the initial download? Or is that just a me problem? I'm on Windows 10 by the way. I'm trying to install this library but the download manager keeps crashing on me


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## Zedcars (Jul 9, 2021)

ChickenAndARoll said:


> Has anyone else had issues with Vienna Download Manager crashing when it starts to install the second part after the initial download? Or is that just a me problem? I'm on Windows 10 by the way. I'm trying to install this library but the download manager keeps crashing on me


I’ve had major problems with it but I’m on a Mac (Catalina). My problem sounds similar though. I had multiple downloads and when I tried to install one the installer just stalled. When I tried to cancel the installation it refused. I tried quitting the app but it would not quit, not even with a force quit. I couldn’t even shut down my Mac in the normal way. Had to do a force shutdown by keeping the power button depressed. My problems with VDM didn’t end there. When I restarted the app it said one download was ready to install and yet not all of it had downloaded. More problems too but I won’t bore you any further.

The only thing that worked was to delete what it had downloaded and start again, although even then it was not straightforward. I now only download 1 at a time. Terrible app.


----------



## ChickenAndARoll (Jul 9, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> I’ve had major problems with it but I’m on a Mac (Catalina). My problem sounds similar though. I had multiple downloads and when I tried to install one the installer just stalled. When I tried to cancel the installation it refused. I tried quitting the app but it would not quit, not even with a force quit. I couldn’t even shut down my Mac in the normal way. Had to do a force shutdown by keeping the power button depressed. My problems with VDM didn’t end there. When I restarted the app it said one download was ready to install and yet not all of it had downloaded. More problems too but I won’t bore you any further.
> 
> The only thing that worked was to delete what it had downloaded and start again, although even then it was not straightforward. I now only download 1 at a time. Terrible app.


For me, the initial smaller download gets downloaded correctly, but then when the second bigger install phase happens, it gets to 1% and then the download manager crashes, even when it's one library at a time. The way I used to fix this was to instead install the libraries with the "Synchron Library Installer" but unfortunately this time that isn't working either, it also crashes.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Jul 10, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> I’ve had major problems with it but I’m on a Mac (Catalina). My problem sounds similar though. I had multiple downloads and when I tried to install one the installer just stalled. When I tried to cancel the installation it refused. I tried quitting the app but it would not quit, not even with a force quit. I couldn’t even shut down my Mac in the normal way. Had to do a force shutdown by keeping the power button depressed. My problems with VDM didn’t end there. When I restarted the app it said one download was ready to install and yet not all of it had downloaded. More problems too but I won’t bore you any further.
> 
> The only thing that worked was to delete what it had downloaded and start again, although even then it was not straightforward. I now only download 1 at a time. Terrible app.


That's odd, because I've used it on Mojave, Catalina and now Big Sur, and it has never given me a single problem.

The only part where it isn't as slick as it could be is how it always wants to activate your licence key - even if it already has the required licence on it....


----------



## borisb2 (Jul 10, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Also, CB is like 8 years old...sample recording techniques have since changed.


Wait.. I thought you are a recording engineer? When was Neumann U87 introduced? 1967. Hasn’t Mic-techniques changed since?

Jokes aside .. I LOVE CineBrass


----------



## Frederick (Jul 10, 2021)

ChickenAndARoll said:


> Has anyone else had issues with Vienna Download Manager crashing when it starts to install the second part after the initial download? Or is that just a me problem? I'm on Windows 10 by the way. I'm trying to install this library but the download manager keeps crashing on me


Sometimes with VSL it crashes shortly after the start of the unpack phase, but just trying again solves it. (I'm on Windows 10 and I'm downloading to the same SSD as I want to install to.) In my case it has to do with an unexpected reinitialization of my SSD drives. I have sufficiently powered hubs so I have no clue why this sometimes happens, but with the standard library of the Synchron Brass it did.


----------



## borisb2 (Jul 10, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> It seems like he layers many articulations, and from various libraries to achieve the sound he wants,


Exactly. As recently mentioned in another thread one shouldn’t limit oneself to a given „closed library“ but cherry-pick the best from all libraries And mix. Different room? .. who cares.

Regarding the Star Wars Demo I‘m on the fence of liking the demo from @Stephen Limbaugh more than Blakus .. not sure but SYBrass really sounds good here.

Regarding the Zarathustra demo on the VSL-website I‘m not so convinced. That sounds a bit meeh - personal opinion of course .. Here‘s a more punchy version recently done with a happy mixture of CineBrass (mainly), CSB and Ark1 Brass.


----------



## daviddln (Jul 10, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> Did anyone buy it already? Can't really find any content that shows more in depth stuff. Only a short walkthrough of the trumpets and some mockup video's. Really wondering what the horns sound like in detail. Especially the legato transitions. Any demo's of that are much appreciated!


There is a new walkthrough video for horns on their youtube channel.


----------



## holywilly (Jul 10, 2021)

I really wish VSL sampled the horns a4. And one disappointed thing is the mismatched articulations of horns a6 from BBO Jupiter. Where is the “rip”?


----------



## Evans (Jul 10, 2021)

holywilly said:


> I really wish VSL sampled the horns a4. And one disappointed thing is the mismatched articulations of horns a6 from BBO Jupiter. Where is the “rip”?


Does this mean we can't clear up space from redundant instruments across BBO H, J, K?


----------



## holywilly (Jul 10, 2021)

Evans said:


> Does this mean we can't clear up space from redundant instruments across BBO H, J, K?


Don’t do it yet, however I found BBO brass packs are easier to work with. And matching articulations for Tom ones a12 with other brass instruments is my wish list for Synchron Brass, well…..


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## Ben (Jul 10, 2021)

holywilly said:


> I really wish VSL sampled the horns a4. And one disappointed thing is the mismatched articulations of horns a6 from BBO Jupiter. Where is the “rip”?


Hm, looks like it was forgotten in the instrument preset. I'll ask my colleague.
The articulation is still there, you can drag'n'drop it from the patch list:


----------



## holywilly (Jul 10, 2021)

Ben said:


> Hm, looks like it was forgotten in the instrument preset. I'll ask my colleague.
> The articulation is still there, you can drag'n'drop it from the patch list:


Ahhhh, thank @Ben, my beloved rip.


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## DaddyO (Jul 10, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> How much out the door at Audio Deluxe for standard?


450 USD including summer sale discount.


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 10, 2021)

DaddyO said:


> 450 USD including summer sale discount.


About $100 less if you own BOO brass.


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## holywilly (Jul 10, 2021)

Latest Synchron Player Articulation Switch Problem - Synchron Libraries - FORUMS - Vienna Symphonic Library


No description




www.vsl.co.at





The latest Synchron Player is having awkward issue when using velocity to switch articulations. This issue has been confirmed and will expect an update soon.

Unfortunately Synchron Brass only works on the latest Synchron Player, all we need is a little patient.


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## Loerpert (Jul 11, 2021)

@Ben It would be super duper awesome if you guys added a3 / a4 sections to this library as well. It would be unbeatable then and also be a true competitor to JXL brass!!


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## jaketanner (Jul 11, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> @Ben It would be super duper awesome if you guys added a3 / a4 sections to this library as well. It would be unbeatable then and also be a true competitor to JXL brass!!


A4 for which? There are already 4 horns, bones and trumpets. I think if anything, a2 patches would have be a better choice, so that we can make a nice harmony with the 2 soloists and still have only 4 instruments..


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 11, 2021)

Question for those that have Synchron Brass AND Synchron Strings Pro and Synchron Strings 1...which of the two string libraries blend better with the brass?


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## Loerpert (Jul 11, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> A4 for which? There are already 4 horns, bones and trumpets. I think if anything, a2 patches would have be a better choice, so that we can make a nice harmony with the 2 soloists and still have only 4 instruments..


The website states there are 2 solo horns, an a6 and a12 ensemble. No a4. Sorry I should have specified. I was talking about horns.


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## jaketanner (Jul 11, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> The website states there are 2 solo horns, an a6 and a12 ensemble. No a4. Sorry I should have specified. I was talking about horns.


my bad...I thought for sure there were 4 for horns...I double checked now, and they are only 6. Damn...so strange then. Seems I may need to rethink this then if they don't have an a4 horn...that really makes no sense to me at all.


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## Ben (Jul 11, 2021)

Ther is no a4 for Horns.
But try to use the a6 instead - in practice with real instruments the impact of a sectin size is not the same as when using samples. And with this many mics it's quite easy to create a smaller sounding ensemble / mix it with one of the Solo Horns (the solo instrument mixed a little bit louder).

Of course it would be great to have as much options as possible, but adding another sized section would increase cost and disk space while adding not so much value to this package imo.


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 11, 2021)

Ben said:


> Ther is no a4 for Horns.
> But try to use the a6 instead - in practice with real instruments the impact of a sectin size is not the same as when using samples. And with this many mics it's quite easy to create a smaller sounding ensemble / mix it with one of the Solo Horns (the solo instrument mixed a little bit louder).
> 
> Of course it would be great to have as much options as possible, but adding another sized section would increase cost and disk space while adding not so much value to this package imo.


an a2 would have been a good addition though. I do agree that the translation of samples sizes to live players will not be a 1 to 1 ratio. Some libraries though will require less to equal live players: Like if I have 6 live players available, some a4 patches will sound equally huge...all depends on the room they are recorded in. Example, an a4 horn patch recorded at AIR studios, will sound larger than an a6 horn section recorded live in a much smaller venue with less natural reverberation. 

I am just not sure how to achieve a harmonic section of horns with only 2 soloists and an a6 patch. The transpose feature isn't a great way of doing this all the time. What is your experience with this? I do have the triple horn from Vienna VSL that I can add to this as well...maybe I can grab one more solo horn from Vienna?


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## Loerpert (Jul 11, 2021)

Ben said:


> Ther is no a4 for Horns.
> But try to use the a6 instead - in practice with real instruments the impact of a sectin size is not the same as when using samples. And with this many mics it's quite easy to create a smaller sounding ensemble / mix it with one of the Solo Horns (the solo instrument mixed a little bit louder).
> 
> Of course it would be great to have as much options as possible, but adding another sized section would increase cost and disk space while adding not so much value to this package imo.


Thanks, I should receive my key this week so I will try that out. I do have enough libraries with a3 and a4 sections but the Synchron stage sounds sooo good.


----------



## Ben (Jul 11, 2021)

Well, a2 is easy: Use both, Solo Horn 1 + 2.
a4 is also not complicated: Chords: Just create a copy of the players. Unisono: Use different articulations with the copies - there are so many, it's not hard to achieve.
Or just use the a6 ensemble for unisono parts...


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 11, 2021)

Ben said:


> Ther is no a4 for Horns.
> But try to use the a6 instead - in practice with real instruments the impact of a sectin size is not the same as when using samples. And with this many mics it's quite easy to create a smaller sounding ensemble / mix it with one of the Solo Horns (the solo instrument mixed a little bit louder).
> 
> Of course it would be great to have as much options as possible, but adding another sized section would increase cost and disk space while adding not so much value to this package imo.


I'm still on track to get this regardless..LOL. It's truly a great sounding brass library and I often wished BBO would be more comprehensive...so here it is.


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 11, 2021)

Ben said:


> Well, a2 is easy: Use both, Solo Horn 1 + 2.
> a4 is also not complicated: Chords: Just create a copy of the players. Unisono: Use different articulations with the copies - there are so many, it's not hard to achieve.
> Or just use the a6 ensemble for unisono parts...


I meant an a2 on top of the 2 soloists...then a true 4 part harmony can be achieved. But I get what you are saying. It's still a great library.


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 12, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> An extract of the Superman March by John Williams. Mockup using VSL Synchron Brass, Synchron Strings I, and VI Woodwinds and percussion (BBCSO Snare 1).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



God! I just don’t wanna hear any spoil this theme but I did not listen your mock up, yet, but I really hope you did it good coz I see you used the Synchron Brass, which is creating nice reviews around. Thanks for doing this.


----------



## Ben (Jul 13, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Latest Synchron Player Articulation Switch Problem - Synchron Libraries - FORUMS - Vienna Symphonic Library
> 
> 
> No description
> ...


We just now released an update addressing this issue.


----------



## holywilly (Jul 13, 2021)

Ben said:


> We just now released an update addressing this issue.


Thanks Ben, that is super fast! VSL has the best support ever!


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## Toecutter (Jul 13, 2021)

AEF said:


> the way you described the other libraries that I own (BBC, CSB, and JXL) is so exactly matched with my opinion. This is bad news for me bc it means I will like Synchron Brass even more that I do now pre purchase. Damnit!


Yep I think you will! Sorry XD My notes were in the heat of the moment, focused on the sound only... if I consider the programming and flexibility of Synchron, there's nothing else other than Infinite Brass that can touch it. And SB sounds as good as Cinebrass that up until now was the king of brass tone imo


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## Toecutter (Jul 13, 2021)

dunamisstudio said:


> Thanks, I'm sold on Synchron Brass now. Just need to wait til payday.


I think you won't regret it. SB got everything in one box: sound, control, support. The only reason I didn't buy it yet is that Infinite Brass got a game-changing update (compared to the previous version) so I'm waiting for more Synchron walkthroughs to compare to IB 1.6 and see how badly I still need SB.


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## Toecutter (Jul 13, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> It seems like Berlin Brass holds up better than most against Synchron. Would you say that's accurate? Once the FF later gets added as it gets ported to SINE, would you say that it would do pretty well aside from less smooth crossfades? Idk. I think Synchron sounds really fantastic but Berlin sounds warmer, I like the sound of Teldex better, and I'm not missing any features i need. If it's the next best and the biggest difference is just some weaker crossfading, I'm happy to work with what I've got. I have yet to feel held back by Berlin's crossfades.


Sorry for the late reply, been very busy. The Trumpet 2 tone and expressiveness is awesome but that's all the praise I can give to it (mainly talking about the legato patch). There are lots of weird legato transitions and nasty perspective problems in the Tree microphone that annoy the hell out of me. Example if you have the library: play D5 and A4 (or listen to this audio if you don't, use headphones)
View attachment tpt2.mp3


Can you hear how the sound moves to the left channel when I play the A4?

More crappy transitions where the room gets sucked out of the sample
View attachment tpt22.mp3



Berlin Brass sounds amazing but it's badly programmed, inconsistent and plagued with technical issues that will never get fixed and I learned to live with  I can't recommend it to anyone else in 2021 when there are far better options like Synchron Brass and Infinite Brass 1.6.

With Vienna and Aaron you pay for quality control. No fucking around! And they can sound equally amazing compared to Berlin, Spitfire, Cinebrass. No excuses like "but VSL libraries sound thin and sterile" or "Infinity libraries are too synthy" that shit belongs to the past


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## Toecutter (Jul 13, 2021)

@FabioA I'm going through the horns walkthrough, great job! At 4:27 can you confirm that what we are listening to is the solo horn? You even say it's the solo horn 1 but the video shows "Horn 1,2" instead of "Horn 1" so I'm a bit confused.


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## FabioA (Jul 13, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> @FabioA I'm going through the horns walkthrough, great job! At 4:27 can you confirm that what we are listening to is the solo horn? You even say it's the solo horn 1 but the video shows "Horn 1,2" instead of "Horn 1" so I'm a bit confused.


Hey, thanks a lot! I confirm it is the solo horn 1. But you are absolutely right: I haven't been very consistent with the labelling on the upper right corner, so I understand your confusion.
By the way, in case there are other points where it is not clear, you can always check on the upper right corner of the Synchron Player.


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## Toecutter (Jul 13, 2021)

FabioA said:


> Hey, thanks a lot! I confirm it is the solo horn 1. But you are absolutely right: I haven't been very consistent with the labelling on the upper right corner, so I understand your confusion.
> By the way, in case there are other points where it is not clear, you can always check on the upper right corner of the Synchron Player.


No worries! just wanted to confirm because I'm playing your examples against my libraries and want to do a fair comparison, thanks for the Synchron Player tip. Congrats again, you are 2/2 convincing me XD Isn't it great when a company hires someone how knows how to use the product they are promoting? Vienna has that old school vibe of software companies that used to understand what a "product specialist"actually is.


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## Petrucci (Jul 13, 2021)

I bought SB Full but didn't realize that the new version of Synchron Player works starting from Mac OS 13.6 now..! So I had to upgrade from 12.6 which would be smooth if not for an electricity shutdown right in the middle of upgrade lol..!)) All in all, it ended well and SB sounds amazing! Now I wonder should I upgrade even further to Mojave..


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## ptram (Jul 15, 2021)

Ben said:


> Well, a2 is easy: Use both, Solo Horn 1 + 2.
> a4 is also not complicated: Chords: Just create a copy of the players. Unisono: Use different articulations with the copies - there are so many, it's not hard to achieve.


I’m thinking that these sections could be done with a custom preset. Open two instances of Synchron Player, and copy and paste patches from different players. Fine tune the mixer as needed.

Et voila, a new a2 or a4 preset!

Paolo


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 22, 2021)




----------



## muziksculp (Jul 23, 2021)

Great sounding Synchron Brass Trailer


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 23, 2021)

I‘m interested in some lyrical, more softer demos of the solo instruments (like Jurassic Park or Princess Leia)? I’m not a big fan of the solo horns heard in the walkthrough.

Pity that it turned rather quiet here again like with the other Synchron releases. I hear lots of potential, but the current demos haven‘t convinced me at all.


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## Casiquire (Jul 23, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I‘m interested in some lyrical, more softer demos of the solo instruments (like Jurassic Park or Princess Leia)? I’m not a big fan of the solo horns heard in the walkthrough.
> 
> Pity that it turned rather quiet here again like with the other Synchron releases. I hear lots of potential, but the current demos haven‘t convinced me at all.


I'd like to hear more of that too, but Synchron Brass sure does seem to tick a lot of boxes.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 23, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I‘m interested in some lyrical, more softer demos of the solo instruments (like Jurassic Park or Princess Leia)? I’m not a big fan of the solo horns heard in the walkthrough.
> 
> Pity that it turned rather quiet here again like with the other Synchron releases. I hear lots of potential, but the current demos haven‘t convinced me at all.


Do you prefer the CSB Solo Horn compared to what the VSL Synchron Brass Solo Horns sound like ?


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 24, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Do you prefer the CSB Solo Horn compared to what the VSL Synchron Brass Solo Horns sound like ?



Yes, also CB and HB. But I‘m mainly using VI (dimension) brass, and it comes ridiculously close to CB when you put it into MIR Synchron.

Only wanted to hear if Synchron Brass can achieve something similar. I don‘t like wet brass. I already demoed the BBO Horn Ensemble back then, and I didn‘t like it. I general prefer drier brass, especially horns. I know the Synchron libraries have a relatively short tail, but the sound is more of a symphonic sound compared to a scoring stage sound, at least my impression. I also don’t like Spitfire brass, too wet (except SStB).


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## holywilly (Jul 24, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Yes, also CB and HB. But I‘m mainly using VI (dimension) brass, and it comes ridiculously close to CB when you put it into MIR Synchron.
> 
> Only wanted to hear if Synchron Brass can achieve something similar. I don‘t like wet brass. I already demoed the BBO Horn Ensemble back then, and I didn‘t like it. I general prefer drier brass, especially horns. I know the Synchron libraries have a relatively short tail, but the sound is more of a symphonic sound compared to a scoring stage sound, at least my impression. I also don’t like Spitfire brass, too wet (except SStB).


Try Wide option in preset categories, and turn of the reverb, the sound of Synchron Brass is pretty dry comparing with other brands, even tho the brass is recorded at Synchron (scoring) Stage.


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## muziksculp (Jul 24, 2021)




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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 24, 2021)

Also curious how folks are finding Synchron Brass now compared to other brass libraries they may own. I am never disappointed when I use Synchron Strings Pro so I'm certainly tempted by Synchron Brass.


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## muziksculp (Jul 24, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Also curious how folks are finding Synchron Brass now compared to other brass libraries they may own. I am never disappointed when I use Synchron Strings Pro so I'm certainly tempted by Synchron Brass.


Yes, that would be very helpful feedback to read from Synchron Brass owners.


----------



## SlHarder (Jul 24, 2021)

I'm a hobbyist so I can't claim an extensive depth and breadth of experience.

I have found SSPro and SB are both libraries that I can sit down with and just instinctively know how to effectively use them. The consistency of articulation structure and sample quality across SSPro, SB and BBO creates a workflow synergy that keeps me from getting distracted by non-creative issues. There is a sense of "place" within the Synchron player that is very supportive to creative endeavors.

SB quality is as excellent as SSPro. It's up to each user to decide if it meets their needs.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 24, 2021)

In the meantime, I'll just listen to the demos to compare to Opus, SSB, CSB, and JXL Brass. My initial impression is while Synchron Brass has a lot of articulations, I notice some inconsistency between solos and the ensembles. Also, it could just be VSL's preference of style for demos, but VSL sounds almost thin compared to some of the other library demos. Some perhaps would say that is "clarity" which tends to be VSL aesthetic I've noticed.


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## muziksculp (Jul 24, 2021)

My biggest challenge to add Synchron Brass is that I already have a nice selection of Brass Libraries, i.e. Berlin Brass, CineBrass Core and Pro, CSB, BBCSO Pro Brass, and some ala-carte Brass from JXL Brass. 

Do I need another Brass Library i.e. Synchron Bras ? That's the big question for me. It only would make sense if it offered a better sound, realism, functionality when compared to the other Brass Libraries I own. This is not an easy thing to evaluate.

I'm also guessing that there are others who have even more brass libraries, and are trying to decide if Synchron Brass is worth getting. So, surely more feedback from Synchron Brass owners is going to help. I know one can demo the library for a couple weeks, so that might be another option to evaluate it.

One more important detail I have to deal with, is.. I'm not a fan of using a lot of brass in my compositions, so I'm not a huge brass fanfare type music composer, a little brass for me goes a long way, as long as the sounds are good, have the essential articulations, and can be very expressive. So I'm a bit concerned that Synchron Brass might be an overkill brass library for my needs.


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## ptram (Jul 25, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I‘m interested in some lyrical, more softer demos of the solo instruments


Just a little Stravinsky with Horn 2 (the mellower one, so it seems to me). As naked as it comes out of the preset. Velocity Xfade, Timbre Adjust both in action.

Stravinsky - Firebird, Finale, Horn Solo (RoomMix)

Stravinsky - Firebird, Finale, Horn Solo (Decca)

Stravinsky - Firebird, Finale, Horn Solo (Decca, less Mid)

Paolo


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## Soundbed (Jul 25, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> I think you won't regret it. SB got everything in one box: sound, control, support. The only reason I didn't buy it yet is that Infinite Brass got a game-changing update (compared to the previous version) so I'm waiting for more Synchron walkthroughs to compare to IB 1.6 and see how badly I still need SB.


Let us know. The only brass on my list before SB came out was Sonore and maybe IB.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 25, 2021)

ptram said:


> Just a little Stravinsky with Horn 2 (the mellower one, so it seems to me). As naked as it comes out of the preset. Velocity Xfade, Timbre Adjust both in action.
> 
> http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/musichealtri/stravinsky/Firebird-Solo_Horn_2_Xf.mp3 (Stravinsky - Firebird, Finale, Horn Solo)
> 
> Paolo


Thank you, Paolo! 

Nice. Which preset is this? Room Mix? I think, it's again the preset I don't like, the focus is always on the mids, isn't it? Would you be so nice (and if time allows) to post the same example with a "standard" decca tree without mids involved?


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## muziksculp (Jul 25, 2021)

I wonder when we will see *Synchron Woodwinds* ? 

I'm really hoping they are the next big release by VSL.


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## ptram (Jul 25, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Nice. Which preset is this? Room Mix? I think, it's again the preset I don't like, the focus is always on the mids, isn't it? Would you be so nice (and if time allows) to post the same example with a "standard" decca tree without mids involved?


I confirm it's the default Room Mix preset. Not too far, not too close, strong in the mids and highs.

I'll try to do a different mix tomorrow. I'll just use the default Decca preset, and maybe also mess a bit with the mixer.

Incidentally, I find this mix very real and very open. Maybe not the final sound I would go for, but a honest starting point.

Paolo


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## Ben (Jul 25, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I don‘t like wet brass. I already demoed the BBO Horn Ensemble back then, and I didn‘t like it.


You should have checked out the dry mixer presets, or create one yourself. It's really easy to get a dry sound out of this library.


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## Petrucci (Jul 25, 2021)

I have bought SB but haven't used it yet but for those who might think that some presets are too "direct" sounding - I had this feeling with BBO Brass Horns too - for example in Surround To Stereo Wide preset and I found that by just lowering down Mid mic by something like 0,6-2 dB the Horns were moving back, becoming less direct and more spacious so it's really easy to shape the sound in Synchron Player Mixer.


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## Ben (Jul 25, 2021)

Petrucci said:


> I have bought SB but haven't used it yet but for those who might think that some presets are too "direct" sounding - I had this feeling with BBO Brass Horns too - for example in Surround To Stereo Wide preset and I found that by just lowering down Mid mic by something like 0,6-2 dB the Horns were moving back, becoming less direct and more spacious so it's really easy to shape the sound in Synchron Player Mixer.


There are so many people all having different taste, but as you mentioned you can highly customize it. And it's really easy as well: Load the mixer preset you like most and start tweaking the sound from there. In most cases just a few volume changes will do the trick.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 26, 2021)

ptram said:


> I confirm it's the default Room Mix preset. Not too far, not too close, strong in the mids and highs.
> 
> I'll try to do a different mix tomorrow. I'll just use the default Decca preset, and maybe also mess a bit with the mixer.
> 
> ...


No question that it sounded real. As @Ben said, it's about personal taste, it's just not mine.


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## ptram (Jul 26, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Would you be so nice (and if time allows) to post the same example with a "standard" decca tree without mids involved?


I've added to the previous post a version with the default Decca Classic mix, and one with the same mix, but with the Mid mic lowered a bit.

Paolo


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## MelodicAdagio (Jul 26, 2021)

Evans said:


> Something interesting that we get here that we don't often see: two developers covering the same music for an audio demo.
> 
> *Also Sprach Zarathustra*
> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Series/Synchron_Brass#!Demos
> ...


Nice to be able to make a side-by-side comparison. Both are good. While I intend to get Synchron Brass while it's still at the introductory price, I preferred the Opus demo here and thought it was really put together well.


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## muziksculp (Jul 27, 2021)




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## muziksculp (Jul 27, 2021)

This seems to be the first review of Synchron Brass that has been posted on YT.


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## Sovereign (Jul 27, 2021)

muziksculp said:


>



Best demo I've heard so far. Stil uncertain though on some things which are holding me back. Are the marcatos real recordings, or just a staccato layered on top?


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## muziksculp (Jul 27, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> Best demo I've heard so far. Stil uncertain though on some things which are holding me back. Are the marcatos real recordings, or just a staccato layered on top?


Good question regarding the Marcatos.

Watch this video (Cued to show Horn Marcato) which I guess crossfades between regular, and marcatao longs based on velocity, but not sure if it is a stacc. layer that does the marcato function. Maybe @Ben can give us some feedback about this detail.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 27, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> Best demo I've heard so far. Stil uncertain though on some things which are holding me back. Are the marcatos real recordings, or just a staccato layered on top?


I didn't want to post anymore, haha... but totally agree. Best demo so far! (not that the others are bad, but not to my taste and didn't convince me)


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## muziksculp (Jul 27, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> not that the others are bad, but not to my taste and didn't convince me


@Pixelpoet1985 ,

Remember that using the Synchron Player you can tweak the sounds to your taste quite a bit, so many options that you have at your disposal for changing the sounds, plus add to that other DSP plugins you might want to use in your mix. It's not one size fits all library, but rather just the opposite.


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## muziksculp (Jul 27, 2021)

For example, the Brass in the epic classic movie Conan The Barbarian Soundtrack, by Basil Poledouris is one type of brass sound I like to create, and I'm sure I can emulate that brass sound using VSL Synchron Brass, although the sounds out of the box sound very, very different than that vintage Conan The Barbarian Brass.


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## Sovereign (Jul 28, 2021)

Just purchased it. Can I do away with the BBO Hercules and Jupiter installs?


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## Ben (Jul 28, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> Just purchased it. Can I do away with the BBO Hercules and Jupiter installs?


You could, but you have to reload the instruments in existing products.
To uninstall BBO H+J simply navigate to the location where these are installed and delete the folders.


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## muziksculp (Jul 28, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> Just purchased it.


_*Congratulations !*_

I'm planning to purchase it before Aug. 2nd, let us know how you like Synchron Brass once you get to discover it for a while. Did you get the Full version ?


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 28, 2021)




----------



## Evans (Jul 28, 2021)

After loading up Infinite Brass for the first time in ages, all that keyswitching makes me anxious. 

I'm not sure what to do about this anxiety other than posting about it on this forum.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 28, 2021)

I'm guessing that most of the key-switching in Synchron Player, and in many of these VSL Synchron demos, is done after the notes are played in, on an articulation assignment phase of the production.

So it's not something you would perform in real time with key-switching. On the other hand, using a library like Infinite Brass (I don't have it), but would guess gives you the luxury of playing these types of articulations in real time, by adapting to your playing style. Kind of under the hood magic. 

I wish that was possible with Synchron based libraries, but that's not how they are designed. Having something like Sound-Variations in Studio One Pro with VSL Synchron, was super helpful for me to use Synchron libraries, with all their nested key-switches. and the Key-Switches are exchanged bi-directionally. 

But there is still quite a bit of decision making, and experimenting as to which articulation to assign to notes to make the phrase sound natural/to your needs.


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## Sovereign (Jul 28, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> _*Congratulations !*_
> 
> I'm planning to purchase it before Aug. 2nd, let us know how you like Synchron Brass once you get to discover it for a while. Did you get the Full version ?


I purchased full.


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## muziksculp (Jul 28, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> I purchased full.


Great ! That's the way to go


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jul 28, 2021)

muziksculp said:


>



That sounds phenomenal. I still have a feeling that the horns are the weakest part of Synchron Brass. But for the trumpets and 'bones alone, it is tempting.


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## muziksculp (Jul 29, 2021)

Simon Ravn said:


> That sounds phenomenal. I still have a feeling that the horns are the weakest part of Synchron Brass. But for the trumpets and 'bones alone, it is tempting.


I don't hear any weaknesses in the Horns. Maybe they will post more videos demos of some more horn prominent orchestration. I love what I hear in this walkthrough as far as the Horns are concerned.


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## fduncan (Jul 29, 2021)

The introductory offer is extended to the 15th of August, I have received an email from VSL today.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 29, 2021)

Not that I need more brass, but how would one go about deciding on Infinite brass versus Synchron Brass? 
Is there anything Synchron Brass full does that Infinite doesn’t?


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## muziksculp (Jul 29, 2021)

fduncan said:


> The introductory offer is extended to the 15th of August, I have received an email from VSL today.


Hmmm... I didn't get any email stating that. Also checked their product page, it still shows Intro Price ends August 2nd.


----------



## biomuse (Jul 29, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Not that I need more brass, but how would one go about deciding on Infinite brass versus Synchron Brass?
> Is there anything Synchron Brass full does that Infinite doesn’t?


While I love the idea of IB and the sound of the revision is definitely improved, when it comes down to the demos there is still a not-infrequent plausibility problem that I can't quite help but hear. It's frustrating b/c I can't quite put my finger on it - something to do with phase or internal movement of certain notes? 
But it might be below the threshold for most listeners, dunno.


----------



## Evans (Jul 29, 2021)

biomuse said:


> t's frustrating b/c I can't quite put my finger on it - something to do with phase or internal movement of certain notes?


I don't disagree. You basically gotta decide if you can ignore that missing _something_ in the sound of IB, or if you can't fathom the idea of managing so many keyswitches in SB for the "stitched together" sound. In that way, both are very lovely products with perhaps the exact opposite problem. Neither is really a unique problem.

That said, some people don't get along with Synchron hall. Fortunately, VSL has that 14-day return policy and people can try for themselves.


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## fduncan (Jul 29, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hmmm... I didn't get any email stating that. Also checked their product page, it still shows Intro Price ends August 2nd.


The email was the newsletter. Have you subscribed to it ? Anyway, Ben will probably confirm the new date any time now.


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## Ben (Jul 29, 2021)

fduncan said:


> The introductory offer is extended to the 15th of August, I have received an email from VSL today.


That's right!


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## Soundbed (Jul 29, 2021)

biomuse said:


> While I love the idea of IB and the sound of the revision is definitely improved, when it comes down to the demos there is still a not-infrequent plausibility problem that I can't quite help but hear. It's frustrating b/c I can't quite put my finger on it - something to do with phase or internal movement of certain notes?
> But it might be below the threshold for most listeners, dunno.





Evans said:


> I don't disagree. You basically gotta decide if you can ignore that missing _something_ in the sound of IB, or if you can't fathom the idea of managing so many keyswitches in SB for the "stitched together" sound. In that way, both are very lovely products with perhaps the exact opposite problem. Neither is really a unique problem.
> 
> That said, some people don't get along with Synchron hall. Fortunately, VSL has that 14-day return policy and people can try for themselves.


Right. So. The answer, as always, is to get them both.


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## muziksculp (Jul 29, 2021)

Hi @Ben, 

Thanks for confirming that the Intro price has been extended to Aug 15th.

Hopefully more videos, and demos will be posted to further evaluate, and appreciate what Synchron Brass can deliver.


----------



## Zanshin (Jul 29, 2021)

I bought standard as soon as it came out, broke down and bought the upgrade to full today because I anticipate doing the same for Elite Strings too, I want those ribbon mics haha.

Anyway, I have and love IB too and will continue to use it. IB, while super playable, takes more work to setup and to have it sound great. SB sounds great out of the box, but is not quite as playable. I feel like they are like chocolate and peanut butter.

SB IS replacing the large chunk of JXL Brass I bought ala carte though. To my trashy ears, SB sounds better, and the Synchron Player is SOOOOOO much better than Sine.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 29, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I bought standard as soon as it came out, broke down and bought the upgrade to full today because I anticipate doing the same for Elite Strings too, I want those ribbon mics haha.
> 
> Anyway, I have and love IB too and will continue to use it. IB, while super playable, takes more work to setup and to have it sound great. SB sounds great out of the box, but is not quite as playable. I feel like they are like chocolate and peanut butter.
> 
> SB IS replacing the large chunk of JXL Brass I bought ala carte though. To my trashy ears, SB sounds better, and the Synchron Player is SOOOOOO much better than Sine.


*Congratulations *

Getting the Full versions of Elite Strings, and Synch. Brass will surely give you more ear candy. 

Oh.. how do you like the Horns in Synchron Brass ? Just curious to get your direct feedback if you had the chance to spend some time using the horns (Solo and Sections). 

Thanks.


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## Zanshin (Jul 29, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Oh.. how do you like the Horns in Synchron Brass ? Just curious to get your direct feedback if you had the chance to spend some time using the horns (Solo and Sections).


I feel like the horns sound great. If there is any disparity in the package it might be that the trumpets and trombones sound stunningly good haha. Everyone has a different ear though.


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## muziksculp (Jul 29, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I feel like the horns sound great. If there is any disparity in the package it might be that the trumpets and trombones sound stunningly good haha. Everyone has a different ear though.


Thanks. I agree.

Yes, actually, everything I heard in the videos, and demos from Synchron Brass sounded great.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 29, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Right. So. The answer, as always, is to get them both.


Which tone do you like better? That generally should be the guiding factor because at the end, that's what your listener will hear. They won't hear the workflow differences, the articulations matrix, etc. I've posted before that IB's "playability" is a bit of a misnomer - and you can see it when somebody shares a screenshot of their CC programming for it. It is extensive. That's no accident - you have to do that in order to make it sound good. And even then, it may not sound exactly how you like. There was a recent thread here on how to do trumpet falls with IB and the answer ended up being "use the pitch wheel". Or when I asked how to do a rip, the answer from the developer was quickly scale through the notes just like a normal brass player would (I don't play brass so I didn't know exactly how they play all of the techniques). So these are approximations, while in VSL (and other libraries), the developer has recorded live players doing these so you know what you're hearing is the actual articulation recording. That may or may not make a difference to you, but to me, it makes a world of difference.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 29, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> SB IS replacing the large chunk of JXL Brass I bought ala carte though. To my trashy ears, SB sounds better, and the Synchron Player is SOOOOOO much better than Sine.


Agree that Synchron Player is far superior to SINE. Curious what you prefer about SB tonally to JXL?

Wonder which of these two demos folks prefer (one is VSL and one is JXL).



Spoiler: Answers



A - JXL, B - VSL


----------



## SlHarder (Jul 29, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I feel like the horns sound great. If there is any disparity in the package it might be that the trumpets and trombones sound stunningly good


Each trumpet and horn solo instrument is distinctive and true to itself. Each has a unique character and depth. You can easily substitute #2 for #1 in a complex passage for comparison and each performs the articulations almost identically but its personality shines through.


----------



## artinro (Jul 29, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Agree that Synchron Player is far superior to SINE. Curious what you prefer about SB tonally to JXL?
> 
> Wonder which of these two demos folks prefer (one is VSL and one is JXL).
> 
> ...


As someone who owns JXL but doesn't use it a whole lot: I like the tone of JXL, but the legato is pretty weak to me on a number of instruments (I think Berlin Brass has much better legato, for example) and SB legato sounds better than JXL to me too. I'm also not fond of the JXL trumpets and the SB trumpets have piqued my interest. I'm strongly considering SB.


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## Zanshin (Jul 29, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Agree that Synchron Player is far superior to SINE. Curious what you prefer about SB tonally to JXL?


I feel like JXL can sound a bit synthy and harsh even outside the FFF layers. I also personally had a hard time finding mixes I liked (as opposed to say HZS, with as many mics, I find mixing way easier and rewarding). Trumpets lol. All of the above is tempered by JXL Brass being my favorite non-IB brass library before SB. I just don't think I will use it anymore.

I may also be biased by that I have way more invested in Synchron Stage libraries than Teldex recorded libraries.


----------



## AEF (Jul 29, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Agree that Synchron Player is far superior to SINE. Curious what you prefer about SB tonally to JXL?
> 
> Wonder which of these two demos folks prefer (one is VSL and one is JXL).
> 
> ...


Thanks for this.

In this I preferred JXL, which shows that demos can be misleading. I own the BBO Horns and JXL Horns and the BBO are far better for everything other than epic FFF.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 29, 2021)

AEF said:


> Thanks for this.
> 
> In this I preferred JXL, which shows that demos can be misleading. I own the BBO Horns and JXL Horns and the BBO are far better for everything other than epic FFF.


Indeed - and perhaps valid feedback to the demo makers too. Perhaps not representative of the true strengths (and weaknesses) of these libraries. VSL’s 14-day trial is a mandatory option for any buyer IMO - dive beyond the demos.


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## Soundbed (Jul 29, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Which tone do you like better? That generally should be the guiding factor because at the end, that's what your listener will hear. They won't hear the workflow differences, the articulations matrix, etc. I've posted before that IB's "playability" is a bit of a misnomer - and you can see it when somebody shares a screenshot of their CC programming for it. It is extensive. That's no accident - you have to do that in order to make it sound good. And even then, it may not sound exactly how you like. There was a recent thread here on how to do trumpet falls with IB and the answer ended up being "use the pitch wheel". Or when I asked how to do a rip, the answer from the developer was quickly scale through the notes just like a normal brass player would (I don't play brass so I didn't know exactly how they play all of the techniques). So these are approximations, while in VSL (and other libraries), the developer has recorded live players doing these so you know what you're hearing is the actual articulation recording. That may or may not make a difference to you, but to me, it makes a world of difference.


Thank you.

Tone-wise IB and SB seem pretty close to me, so far. (I'm not in love with the SB sound so far. I do like the way brass sounds in Teldex — not only JXL brass but the Arks and Times, too.)

So the main reason I would get IB would be to execute whatever my samples haven't recorded, even if it takes a lot of effort.

That's also why I was wondering if there was anything Synchron Brass full can do but Infinite cannot (?)


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 29, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Tone-wise IB and SB seem pretty close to me, so far. (I'm not in love with the SB sound so far. I do like the way brass sounds in Teldex — not only JXL brass but the Arks and Times, too.)
> 
> ...


What have you come across in your own writing / composing that your current brass libraries couldn't handle? You're right in theory that IB can execute a broader range of lines, but it also depends on what you write and how complicated you need it to be where a traditional library can't keep up.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 29, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Tone-wise IB and SB seem pretty close to me, so far. (I'm not in love with the SB sound so far. I do like the way brass sounds in Teldex — not only JXL brass but the Arks and Times, too.)


Perhaps a useful self-test for you then - VSL, Spitfire Symphonic Brass, and Infinite examples.

Is the tone or "flexibility" in performance of any standing out as head and shoulders above the others?



Spoiler: Answers



A - Infinite, B - VSL, C - SSB


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## muziksculp (Jul 29, 2021)

*B*


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh (Jul 29, 2021)

Try playing the Promenade trumpet solo from Pictures at an Exhibition with the SF, with no audio editing. Categorically inferior product.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 29, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Categorically inferior product.


Depends on your evaluation criteria, right? Inferior across the board or inferior in programming that specific trumpet solo?


----------



## Toecutter (Jul 29, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Perhaps a useful self-test for you then - VSL, Spitfire Symphonic Brass, and Infinite examples.
> 
> Is the tone or "flexibility" in performance of any standing out as head and shoulders above the others?
> 
> ...


C for me!


----------



## Toecutter (Jul 29, 2021)

Ok I hit spoiler and was pleasantly surprised. Are these your tracks? Really liked the last one!! (you can answer with a spoiler too to no give away XD)


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## artomatic (Jul 29, 2021)

B sounds fatter to me.


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## NoamL (Jul 29, 2021)

Yep brass is all about the players IMO. Record the absolute top session players + a great stage and you get the best sound...

I love SSB & AROOF, and Cinebrass has really nice tone especially for the low brass. If I'm doing something that needs great legatos or phrases with different lengths of shorts I'll use CSB; if it needs to be really super-ff sound I'll use Angry Brass or sometimes Caspian, layered in with a library that has a better soundstage. And then Berlin I unfortunately use the least but sometimes the 1-shot articulations are useful. Haven't been tempted to get any other brass libraries besides those! Any other library kinda gets eclipsed by one of those options in my workflow.

@Toecutter that track is by


Spoiler



Andy Blaney


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## Toecutter (Jul 29, 2021)

NoamL said:


> @Toecutter that track is by





Spoiler



Thanks! Of course...  Sounds so much more life like compared to the other examples, they are not bad at all (quite the contrary, great use of the libraries) but just too polite and "consistent" for a lack of better word. SSB imperfections plus the brilliant programming sold it to me


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Jul 29, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Depends on your evaluation criteria, right? Inferior across the board or inferior in programming that specific trumpet solo?


One has to be able to intermix tenutos, slurs, and legatos in a musically-matched way that sounds like the same performance. There are a few libraries that have a handle on this, but the Spitfire Symphonic Brass isn’t one. Try it! 😁 Or Mahler 5, or Jurassic Park. It is incredibly difficult to get something passable for those classic excerpts, and basically impossible to beat other flagship brass libraries.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 29, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> One has to be able to intermix tenutos, slurs, and legatos in a musically-matched way that sounds like the same performance. There are a few libraries that have a handle on this, but the Spitfire Symphonic Brass isn’t one. Try it! 😁 Or Mahler 5, or Jurassic Park. It is incredibly difficult to get something passable for those classic excerpts, and basically impossible to beat other flagship brass libraries.


Care to share an example from a library that does it well then?


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 29, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Care to share an example from a library that does it well then?


(I'd wager a guess that it's from VSL 😉)

To be fair though Synchron Brass really does sound like a truly special library


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 29, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> (I'd wager a guess that it's from VSL 😉)
> 
> To be fair though Synchron Brass really does sound like a truly special library


I’d love to hear it  Though it is somewhat telling that many folks chose the other libraries’ demos in my blind examples - spoiled for choice these days!


----------



## CT (Jul 29, 2021)

Yeah, Synchron and Spitfire sound good in those examples. The only question is how much work is it to wrangle agile performances out of them? The Spitfire approach can be unwieldy for that kind of writing (though obviously Andy shows it's possible (presumably with lots of patience)), and VSL's philosophy of a billion isolated articulations also is a pain.

I've found expression maps/articulation ID's etc. to be really useful for this, but that relies very heavily on the articulations being switched between having a certain amount of consistency and evenness. I found this was not often the case with the old VSL brass, but maybe Synchron is a little more reliable?


----------



## Minsky (Jul 30, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I’d love to hear it  Though it is somewhat telling that many folks chose the other libraries’ demos in my blind examples - spoiled for choice these days!


Yes, I was surprised. I'm a big fan of VSL bit I chose IB. Though ... I doubt that I'd have the skill to get it to sound so good so perhaps it's still not the right 'tool' for me.


----------



## Sovereign (Jul 30, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Thanks. I agree.
> 
> Yes, actually, everything I heard in the videos, and demos from Synchron Brass sounded great.


I'm keeping the brass. I like the sound. While I still think the legatos are not necessarily the best to me they are way more acceptable than the Synchron Strings legato. Overall I think these are very good, crisp and very consistent recordings . Shame though that the ensembles don't have some of the arts found in the solo instruments, on a few patches the loops are rather obvious. SB might become my favourite brass library when I finish setting it up in my template.

There seems to be a bug in the 4 bones ensemble, long notes, marcato. No matter how far I push the mod wheel, the marcato overlay plays but the sustains remain super soft. Ben, can you confirm?


----------



## Ben (Jul 30, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> There seems to be a bug in the 4 bones ensemble, long notes, marcato. No matter how far I push the mod wheel, the marcato overlay plays but the sustains remain super soft. Ben, can you confirm?


Sorry, I'm currently not in my studio and can't check this myself. Make sure you have installed the latest library updates from MyVSL (we released two since the initial release).
If this doesn't solve the issue, please contact our support: [email protected] (you can also include information regarding the loops - my colleagues will check it out!).


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 30, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> I'm keeping the brass. I like the sound. While I still think the legatos are not necessarily the best to me they are way more acceptable than the Synchron Strings legato. Overall I think these are very good, crisp and very consistent recordings . Shame though that the ensembles don't have some of the arts found in the solo instruments, on a few patches the loops are rather obvious. SB might become my favourite brass library when I finish setting it up in my template.
> 
> There seems to be a bug in the 4 bones ensemble, long notes, marcato. No matter how far I push the mod wheel, the marcato overlay plays but the sustains remain super soft. Ben, can you confirm?


Hi @Sovereign ,

Thank You for the helpful feedback. I'm glad you like it. I plan to get it as well, really love the 'crisp, and clear' sound I hear in the demos/videos. 

Maybe other Synchron Brass users can check the Marcato issue you mentioned, and see if they experience it as well, and as @Ben suggested, make sure you have the latest version of the library installed. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## artinro (Jul 30, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> While I still think the legatos are not necessarily the best to me they are way more acceptable than the Synchron Strings legato.


Interesting. Thanks for offering your feedback. What other brass do you currently have and which of those has your favorite legato? From what I've heard in the walkthroughs, SB seems to be among the better brass libraries in the legato department while also maintaining a pleasing tone. I have my opinions on all the other libraries I own in both the tone and legato departments and generally I feel like they all excel at one, but not the other. So I'm strongly considering adding SB to my template just for added variety. Also, does SB have same-note legato which can be triggered via something like the sustain pedal (like CSB, for example).


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Jul 30, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Yeah, Synchron and Spitfire sound good in those examples. The only question is how much work is it to wrangle agile performances out of them? The Spitfire approach can be unwieldy for that kind of writing (though obviously Andy shows it's possible (presumably with lots of patience)), and VSL's philosophy of a billion isolated articulations also is a pain.
> 
> I've found expression maps/articulation ID's etc. to be really useful for this, but that relies very heavily on the articulations being switched between having a certain amount of consistency and evenness. I found this was not often the case with the old VSL brass, but maybe Synchron is a little more reliable?


I feel like no matter the library it needs rebalancing. 

Not sure why, but synchron feels no different in that regard to me. 

One thing that I feel like bothers me is that the timbre control feels more like a workaround for not having many dynamic layers on a lot of the articulations.

I put all sorts of music making on hold while I'm working and considering rebuilding my setup, but that's the general feeling I get when I'm toying around with the library. 

The way I tested this was turning the mod wheel all the way down and flicking through articulations noticing many would simply be at full volume still, revealing that it's a single dynamic layer


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## artinro (Jul 30, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> The way I tested this was turning the mod wheel all the way down and flicking through articulations noticing many would simply be at full volume still, revealing that it's a single dynamic layer


Aside from specific cresc/dim patches which traverse the whole range and maybe the sfz and sffz where that makes sense, which other patches are 1 or very few dyn only?


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## Casiquire (Jul 30, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I feel like no matter the library it needs rebalancing.
> 
> Not sure why, but synchron feels no different in that regard to me.
> 
> ...


Same question as @artinro, but I'm also curious how authentic the timbre control is too. At a certain level of quality I'm not opposed to workarounds line Frankenstein articulations or timbre adjust


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## Toecutter (Jul 30, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I feel like JXL can sound a bit synthy and harsh even outside the FFF layers.


That is exactly how I feel about JXLB and why I stopped using it. I can't get a good sound out of it no matter how I try. There are some metallic overtones (it's brass I know) that sound so unnatural almost synth-like and I don't hear that on Cinebrass, Berlin Brass, Infinite Brass 1.6 and CSB, my main brass libraries. 

As a matter of fact Aaron managed to remove the same thing that used to bug me about Infinite Brass in version 1.6. Whatever he did, it sounds like a whole different library, much more organic... if only Orchestral Tools could fix that but they won't touch JXLB because it's "working as intended". 

If anyone has tips of microphone positions, settings, eq, to improve it I will be forever grateful. I bought it blind because it was OT and Tom hyped it like crazy (I learned my lesson) and now I'm stuck with a 300GB brass library that I never use.


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## ProfoundSilence (Jul 30, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> That is exactly how I feel about JXLB and why I stopped using it. I can't get a good sound out of it no matter how I try. There are some metallic overtones (it's brass I know) that sound so unnatural almost synth-like and I don't hear that on Cinebrass, Berlin Brass, Infinite Brass 1.6 and CSB, my main brass libraries.
> 
> As a matter of fact Aaron managed to remove the same thing that used to bug me about Infinite Brass in version 1.6. Whatever he did, it sounds like a whole different library, much more organic... if only Orchestral Tools could fix that but they won't touch JXLB because it's "working as intended".
> 
> If anyone has tips of microphone positions, settings, eq, to improve it I will be forever grateful. I bought it blind because it was OT and Tom hyped it like crazy (I learned my lesson) and now I'm stuck with a 300GB brass library that I never use.



It really isn't hard to get a good tone, my advice is to try each mic and find the ones you like and blend them and bake it. 

My current setup is a blend of tree and surround (sometimes amxl and sometimes not) plus whatever close mic combo I need. 

On the contrary I'm not particularly satisfied with the tone of SY brass when you disable all the processing.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 30, 2021)

I wonder how Synchron Brass would fare with the James Bond theme? A couple of mockups from other libraries attached.



Spoiler: Answers



A - Modern Scoring Brass, B - Infinite Brass 1.6


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 31, 2021)

Been rewatching all the great walkthroughs. Given we have recent indications that the updated Berlin Brass should be out this year (with the newly recorded dynamic layer), makes this decision even harder! Berlin has more soloists but fewer ensembles. SB has more articulations (?) and of course a far superior player. Berlin has a warmer sound but SB has the mic flexibility to maybe be similar?


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## Soundbed (Jul 31, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Been rewatching all the great walkthroughs. Given we have recent indications that the updated Berlin Brass should be out this year (with the newly recorded dynamic layer), makes this decision even harder! Berlin has more soloists but fewer ensembles. SB has more articulations (?) and of course a far superior player. Berlin has a warmer sound but SB has the mic flexibility to maybe be similar?


Thanks for all your help with the comparisons. It is a difficult choice indeed. Yes we are spoiled for choices in the crowded brass market.


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## Toecutter (Jul 31, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Thanks for all your help with the comparisons. It is a difficult choice indeed. Yes we are spoiled for choices in the crowded brass market.


Are you missing something from your current brass libraries? I really really really liked SB but I decided to skip it after playing with IB 1.6 and considering what I already have (CB, Berlin, SF, SM). If there's something I can't do, it's not my libraries fault, no excuses XD


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## muziksculp (Jul 31, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Are you missing something from your current brass libraries? I really really really liked SB but I decided to skip it after playing with IB 1.6 and considering what I already have (CB, Berlin, SF, SM). If there's something I can't do, it's not my libraries fault, no excuses XD


Hi @Toecutter ,

Interesting. I'm thinking about getting Synch.Brass. but reading your post made me think about IB. 

Since you have IB 1.6, and it seems like you like this library, I don't have any of the Infinite libraries at this time, and noticed today is the last day for their current discount offer. So, would you recommend getting IB ? Oh.. and do you have IWoodwinds ? Are they worth looking into, or is their Brass a better option ? 

Thanks.


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 31, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Been rewatching all the great walkthroughs. Given we have recent indications that the updated Berlin Brass should be out this year (with the newly recorded dynamic layer), makes this decision even harder! Berlin has more soloists but fewer ensembles. SB has more articulations (?) and of course a far superior player. Berlin has a warmer sound but SB has the mic flexibility to maybe be similar?


I think a good combo is Berlin Brass plus individual sections from JXL/THB and the Arks as needed.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 31, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I think a good combo is Berlin Brass plus individual sections from JXL/THB and the Arks as needed.


I have JXL full, but Berlin Brass might be great for those softer pieces / lines. Watching the walkthrough, even though the library is quite old now, BB sounds pretty phenomenal - and the difference between using an ensemble patch vs. 3-4 individual players is so apparent. I wish there were some more examples of Synchron Brass doing pieces that require p-mf. It certainly excels at the louder, bombastic side of things from what I've watched / listened to so far. Did VSL ever post the dynamic layers count for each articulation? Couldn't find it in the manual like their other libraries.


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## Soundbed (Jul 31, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Are you missing something from your current brass libraries?


Well for better or for worse I have resigned myself to writing “to the samples” over the last few years.

If the library excels at something, and the cue requires that emotional “tone,” then I’ll use library X and write ‘to the samples’ that do the thing. (lol)

What’s happening after a few months here on VI-C is I’m sort of … yearning to do things that would “push” the libraries, and also return to writing more “creatively” … ie based less on what articulations were recorded, and more on my imagination. 

I think this direction / thought process is leading me slowly toward IB. Even if it’s only for certain passages and phrases. (I’m comfortable blending libraries / reverb etc. for what I usually do.)

I’m thinking I don’t really hear SB covering new territory that I don’t have in my existing brass collection.


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## Casiquire (Jul 31, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I have JXL full, but Berlin Brass might be great for those softer pieces / lines. Watching the walkthrough, even though the library is quite old now, BB sounds pretty phenomenal - and the difference between using an ensemble patch vs. 3-4 individual players is so apparent. I wish there were some more examples of Synchron Brass doing pieces that require p-mf. It certainly excels at the louder, bombastic side of things from what I've watched / listened to so far. Did VSL ever post the dynamic layers count for each articulation? Couldn't find it in the manual like their other libraries.


I'm very happy with Berlin Brass, but Synchron sounds great too. I love having the four separate players. One quirky thing about the library is that not all the instruments are sampled with the exact same dynamics, so French Horn 1 might have a louder MF layer than French Horn 2. A lot has been made about that in these forums but i don't see it as a problem personally. I think this is part of why each player maintains individuality and i don't hear any negative effects from it when they play in unison. 

One good thing about Berlin Brass is that there are also recorded sections. It's nice to be able to have four independent players in harmony joining into a true recorded unison section.

I'm hesitant to call it the brass-library-to-rule-them-all just because i see some users here who are bothered by those dynamic inconsistencies or who don't feel it goes loud enough (to which i say, switch to a marcato until we get the new FF layer. The marcato is plenty powerful and can be played with legato transitions) but in my own non-epic style of writing it's my go-to brass and covers just about all of my brass needs. It might be "older" but that doesn't really mean much. Look at how many people still swear by Cinebrass!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 31, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I'm very happy with Berlin Brass, but Synchron sounds great too. I love having the four separate players. One quirky thing about the library is that not all the instruments are sampled with the exact same dynamics, so French Horn 1 might have a louder MF layer than French Horn 2. A lot has been made about that in these forums but i don't see it as a problem personally. I think this is part of why each player maintains individuality and i don't hear any negative effects from it when they play in unison.
> 
> One good thing about Berlin Brass is that there are also recorded sections. It's nice to be able to have four independent players in harmony joining into a true recorded unison section.
> 
> I'm hesitant to call it the brass-library-to-rule-them-all just because i see some users here who are bothered by those dynamic inconsistencies or who don't feel it goes loud enough (to which i say, switch to a marcato until we get the new FF layer. The marcato is plenty powerful and can be played with legato transitions) but in my own non-epic style of writing it's my go-to brass and covers just about all of my brass needs. It might be "older" but that doesn't really mean much. Look at how many people still swear by Cinebrass!


Appreciate the thoughts! I was leaning towards your perspective too - balance each player individually and for me, I’m not missing FFF brass like many seem to focus on here (and JXL fills that spot anyway).


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## muziksculp (Jul 31, 2021)

Looking forward to the release of Berlin Brass in SINE.


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## muziksculp (Jul 31, 2021)

From demos, I hear Berlin Brass much darker/warmer in timbre compared to Synchron Brass, which has a brighter/crisper timbre.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 31, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> From demos, I hear Berlin Brass much darker/warmer in timbre compared to Synchron Brass, which has a brighter/crisper timbre.


Agree - I think that's partially due to the general lack of the very loud dynamic in Berlin Brass in longs and the fact that most Synchron Brass demos are pushing the upper range vs. more mellow examples. Having listened to some live performances by the Berlin Philharmonic though, Synchron Brass's demos for the same pieces sound remarkably good in comparison.


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## muziksculp (Jul 31, 2021)

I'm still undecided if I really need Synchron Brass. I like what I hear, but


ALittleNightMusic said:


> Agree - I think that's partially due to the general lack of the very loud dynamic in Berlin Brass in longs and the fact that most Synchron Brass demos are pushing the upper range vs. more mellow examples. Having listened to some live performances by the Berlin Philharmonic though, Synchron Brass's demos for the same pieces sound remarkably good in comparison.


Yeah.. I just purchased Infinite Brass, and Woodwinds, and still have some GAS left for Synchron Brass, but it's not easy to decide.


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## Casiquire (Jul 31, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Agree - I think that's partially due to the general lack of the very loud dynamic in Berlin Brass in longs and the fact that most Synchron Brass demos are pushing the upper range vs. more mellow examples. Having listened to some live performances by the Berlin Philharmonic though, Synchron Brass's demos for the same pieces sound remarkably good in comparison.


I think it's about more than just the dynamics. I think the Synchron hall has a distinct metallic twang i hear in every library they come out with and it happens to flatter brass and percussion. I think it's just a bright library.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 31, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I'm still undecided if I really need Synchron Brass. I like what I hear, but
> 
> Yeah.. I just purchased Infinite Brass, and Woodwinds, and still have some GAS left for Synchron Brass, but it's not easy to decide.


You of all people know you can never have too many libraries  I've made my thoughts clear on IB (and I think IW has some pretty lackluster tone in general), but I hope you enjoy your purchase.



Casiquire said:


> I think it's about more than just the dynamics. I think the Synchron hall has a distinct metallic twang i hear in every library they come out with and it happens to flatter brass and percussion. I think it's just a bright library.


Agreed that it is a bright library - my initial reaction was "too bright" but after listening to those live performances, I've changed my mind as SB seemed to match quite well (granted, those performance may be in brighter halls). If I do buy this, I will see how much I can tame that "harshness" via the mic positions or something like Soothe2 / EQ.


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## muziksculp (Jul 31, 2021)

I surely think that adding an extra FFF layer to Berlin Brass will brighten them, I also think they might tweak the sampled for SINE, and since I already have Berlin Brass, I'm hesitant to add Synchron Brass. But I still like the way they sound. Not making it easy for me.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 31, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I surely think that adding an extra FFF layer to Berlin Brass will brighten them, I also think they might tweak the sampled for SINE, and since I already have Berlin Brass, I'm hesitant to add Synchron Brass. But I still like the way they sound. Not making it easy for me.


Same debate I'm having - but the tipping point for me may be that I think SINE is the worst sample player out there right now and Synchron Player is easily the best.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 31, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You of all people know you can never have too many libraries  I've made my thoughts clear on IB (and I think IW has some pretty lackluster tone in general), but I hope you enjoy your purchase.


LOL.. Thanks.

I know that the Inf. Woodwinds are going to be improved further, that's one reason I got the bundle, I didn't use them yet, but the IB sound very good, and have so much to offer.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 31, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Same debate I'm having - but the tipping point for me may be that I think SINE is the worst sample player out there right now and Synchron Player is easily the best.


True. But I'm also hoping to see more improvements in the next SINE version. Which they mentioned is being worked on so it can offer more useful features for their Berlin line.


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 31, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Same debate I'm having - but the tipping point for me may be that I think SINE is the worst sample player out there right now and Synchron Player is easily the best.


To play devil's advocate though, SINE seems to be on the verge of a significant upgrade with more functionality, you'll have the Kontakt versions if you like them better, and i believe you yourself observed that Synchron Brass doesn't necessarily do the best in blind matchups 😛


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 31, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> To play devil's advocate though, SINE seems to be on the verge of a significant upgrade with more functionality, you'll have the Kontakt versions if you like them better, and i believe you yourself observed that Synchron Brass doesn't necessarily do the best in blind matchups 😛


No devil can convince me that SINE's next update will bring it particularly close to Synchron 

I do wonder in these demo comparisons though how much is down to the person mixing / producing the mockup. As others have stated, certain libraries can come off amazing in demos but the real world experience with them is not as such.


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 31, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> No devil can convince me that SINE's next update will bring it particularly close to Synchron
> 
> I do wonder in these demo comparisons though how much is down to the person mixing / producing the mockup. As others have stated, certain libraries can come off amazing in demos but the real world experience with them is not as such.


While i do agree with that, I'm not missing anything in the Kontakt version and at least for me, workflow scores lower than sound when I'm looking for a library because i can just throw all the articulations i want into a track template and my goal is to touch the UI as little as possible anyway. But everyone's different!

Is there something in particular you're looking for your next brass library to achieve?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 31, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> While i do agree with that, I'm not missing anything in the Kontakt version and at least for me, workflow scores lower than sound when I'm looking for a library because i can just throw all the articulations i want into a track template and my goal is to touch the UI as little as possible anyway. But everyone's different!
> 
> Is there something in particular you're looking for your next brass library to achieve?


You know, if the Kontakt versions would get the fixes / upgrades in the future, I would likely be less hesitant - but we know only SINE versions will. Who knows, maybe the next SINE upgrade will be amazing - but given how unimaginative the TH Perc release was from a SINE standpoint (especially if you look at something like Hammers), I don't think that's OT's natural inclination - while VSL has always been about creating very powerful and innovative sample players.

I have many brass libraries so I don't need another one. But I love Synchron Strings Pro and I like having "complete sets". For no real reason other than I can.


----------



## Petrucci (Jul 31, 2021)

I also think that some "brightness" of Synchron Brass might come from EQ on mics in Synchron Player Mixer, not mentioning those mics balance (Close and Mid mics Carey a lot of brightness, for instance). As for me I like how it blends nicely with other libraries from Synchron range, just using Surround To Stereo Wide preset)


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 31, 2021)

By the way, to my previous point on how VSL regards their sample player - this issue was fixed within 5 days of reporting https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...Player-Articulation-Switch-Problem#post304671

It's not even that major of a feature or issue in the grand scheme of things, but VSL got a fix out within the span of a week. Now, compare that to broken Mic Merge in SINE...


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## muziksculp (Jul 31, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> By the way, to my previous point on how VSL regards their sample player - this issue was fixed within 5 days of reporting https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...Player-Articulation-Switch-Problem#post304671
> 
> It's not even that major of a feature or issue in the grand scheme of things, but VSL got a fix out within the span of a week. Now, compare that to broken Mic Merge in SINE...


OT should learn from this. 

8 months, and counting. and their mic-merge feature for BSS is still broken. Makes me nervous to have any of their future SINE releases with a bug being reported, good luck to have them fix it in a reasonable amount of time.


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## jason.d (Jul 31, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I wonder how Synchron Brass would fare with the James Bond theme? A couple of mockups from other libraries attached.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok wow the infinite brass version sounds so true to the original. Did you make this?


----------



## ptram (Jul 31, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Agreed that it is a bright library - my initial reaction was "too bright" but after listening to those live performances, I've changed my mind as SB seemed to match quite well


The sound of the Berliners under Rattle was defined "rich and transparent" (and I've always found the recordings with Abbado darker, but very transparent). I think the sound of the Synchron libraries have more or less that kind of signature.

No idea of how the Berliner Philharmonie sounds live, since I've never been there if not via their Digital Concert Hall :(

Paolo


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 31, 2021)

jason.d said:


> Ok wow the infinite brass version sounds so true to the original. Did you make this?


I did not - Aaron Venture did. My preference is the MSB version though.


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## muziksculp (Jul 31, 2021)

I guess one can throw some Gulfoss on a dedicated Synchron Brass bus to tame the brightness a bit if that is what is needed for any reason.


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## Ben (Jul 31, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I guess one can throw some Gulfoss on a dedicated Synchron Brass bus to tame the brightness a bit if that is what is needed for any reason.


Of course you can. You should also check out the signature presets - we've included a few darker sounding presets as well.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 31, 2021)

You can always remove high frequencies that exist, but you can't add any when they don't exist. Better to record with them in tact than to record too mellow IMO.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 1, 2021)

Downloading Synchron Brass Full now...


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## Toecutter (Aug 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Toecutter ,
> 
> Interesting. I'm thinking about getting Synch.Brass. but reading your post made me think about IB.
> 
> ...


Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner muzik! I see the sale is still up, listen to the walkthrough, if you like what you hear, that's exactly what you will get. If anything you will have a VERY playable library to blend with others. For this purpose, I think of IB as Berlin First Chairs compared to Berlin Strings, if that makes any sense.

If I were starting over and had to choose between IB and SB... at gunpoint... RIP toecutter 

Okay, 1 2 3...... Synchron. There, I said it. Synchron = Instant gratification, great room sound, best engine imo, best players. It's a formidable library if you don't have anything else. But it can sound pretty bad, depending on who is driving it:



 (no offense to the composer, it's straight out of Dorico, no tweaks, just pointing out how it CAN sound bad if you don't put any effort into programming)

Now this:




And this:



Erik nailed the brass  can't say same the same about the strings tho, I'll give it a pass since it's not the point of the video.


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## Toecutter (Aug 1, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I think this direction / thought process is leading me slowly toward IB. Even if it’s only for certain passages and phrases. (I’m comfortable blending libraries / reverb etc. for what I usually do.)
> 
> I’m thinking I don’t really hear SB covering new territory that I don’t have in my existing brass collection.


I think you summed it up perfectly sbed! 

IB will definitely give you something different from anything else out there, it's a totally different concept. SB is more of your traditional sampled brass and imo it's one of the best if you know how to drive it. But the same can be said about Spitfire Brass, Cinematic Brass, Century, Cinebrass... they are all excellent and cover similar ground.


----------



## Toecutter (Aug 1, 2021)

@muziksculp forgot to answer, no I don't have IW, my woodwinds budget went all to CSW and I regret it.


----------



## Evans (Aug 1, 2021)

My ideal library would be a Synchron Brass that could also handle something like the opening line from "Far Horizons" from Skyrim.

Try it in Synchron Brass, then do it in any of Tom Holkenborg Brass, Berlin Brass, CineBrass, Audio Imperia Solo, Majestic Horn, EastWest Opus, Cinematic Studio Brass, Modern Scoring Brass, or Infinite Brass (I either own these or have heard someone attempt it in prior years for those I do not).

Synchron Brass would be "categorically inferior," as Stephen would say, for such a use case. VSL's take on the transitions simply isn't a fit.


----------



## Ben (Aug 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> My ideal library would be a Synchron Brass that could also handle something like the opening line from "Far Horizons" from Skyrim.
> 
> Try it in Synchron Brass, then do it in any of Tom Holkenborg Brass, Berlin Brass, CineBrass, Audio Imperia Solo, Majestic Horn, EastWest Opus, Cinematic Studio Brass, Modern Scoring Brass, or Infinite Brass (I either own these or have heard someone attempt it in prior years for those I do not).
> 
> Synchron Brass would be "categorically inferior," as Stephen would say, for such a use case.


How did you come to this conclusion? I have not tried it myself yet, but I'm pretty shure Synchron Brass is perfectly capable to reproduce it.


----------



## Evans (Aug 1, 2021)

Ben said:


> How did you come to this conclusion? I have not tried it myself yet, but I'm pretty shure Synchron Brass is perfectly capable to reproduce it.


EDIT: I've edited my posts for clarity that the legato is the part that isn't a fit here. Nothing to do with post.
----
Please, go for it. I'd love to see it accomplished equal to at least one of the aforementioned products, because it would extend my usage of Synchron Brass.

As an otherwise happy owner of Synchron Brass (and over a dozen other Synchron Stage products, not even including the pianos), I tried it last week myself, shrugged, and figured it's just "not what I'd reach for" for such use cases.

The VSL take on legato isn't a new topic, for better or worse. Everyone has their own personal taste, and each developer's library has its own sweet spot use cases. I greatly like Hans Zimmer Strings from Spitfire Audio, for example, but Spitfire is another developer that sticks to their guns on what legato means to them and is far different from, say, Performance Samples or the Cinematic Studio Series.


----------



## Ben (Aug 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> Please, go for it. I'd love to see it accomplished equal to at least one of the aforementioned products, because it would extend my usage of Synchron Brass.
> 
> As an otherwise happy owner of Synchron Brass (and over a dozen other Synchron Stage products, not even including the pianos), I tried it last week myself, shrugged, and figured it's just "not what I'd reach for" for such use cases.


I'll might try it as soon as I'm back in my studio in ~a week.

My guess: Just like the original you would have to use quite some post processing effects to get this sound (to my knowledge the Skyrim soundtrack was mostly done with VSL VI and GPO + a lot of reverb).

If you want to give it another go, try using the Signature preset "Soaring" or "Nostalgic" for the horn, disable the reverb FX in the bus and add a similar sounding reverb in your DAW.


----------



## Evans (Aug 1, 2021)

Sorry, for clarity, I'm talking about legato transitions. I've updated my posts to avoid further confusion. Given that any library, I suppose, can be heavily manipulated with effects, I didn't stop to think that my post could be taken as meaning anything down in the chain.


----------



## ptram (Aug 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> My ideal library would be a Synchron Brass that could also handle something like the opening line from "Far Horizons" from Skyrim.


If it's the mellow solo horn, I’ve tried it with Stravinsky's Firebird in this or the other thread. Even without considering it the best example, it would seem to me quite revelatory of how SB can deal with this type of evocative melodic line. Just add a lot of artificial reverb!

Paolo


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## AEF (Aug 1, 2021)

I think some people misunderstand “legato” as it relates to brass instruments and how they should sound.


----------



## Evans (Aug 1, 2021)

ptram said:


> If it's the mellow solo horn, I’ve tried it with Stravinsky's Firebird in this or the other thread. Even without considering it the best example, it would seem to me quite revelatory in how SB can deal with this type of evocative melodic line. Just add a lot of artificial reverb!
> 
> Paolo


Yep! It is the mellow solo horn, but I haven't heard an example that comes anywhere close, especially, near the top of the horn's (or horns') range. It has nothing to do with effects.

To be clear, I'm not faulting Synchron Brass for not being something that it's not trying to be. It was a statement of my "ideal library." I think everyone with a key should give Synchron Brass a try, especially given VSL's 14-day refund policy. You can probably find 10x more posts of mine here applauding VSL's libraries, software, and policies than not.

Again, I'll make the Spitfire Audio comparison. VSL and SA have their own views. Performance Samples has another, which is similar to Cinematic Studio Series. OT, well, they're all over the place in their approach even on their main Teldex libraries.



AEF said:


> I think some people misunderstand “legato” as it relates to brass instruments and how they should sound.


Fine. Let's take my view or any "misunderstanding" out of the equation and strictly listen to what developers have offered us. The articulations quite specifically labeled "legato" across the products from my earlier post have a wide range of approaches to what they recorded and how they edited that result in different final sounds. There's nothing subjective about that. They're simply different.

So, if your post was referring to me, then it seems like you have issue with quite a few developers and how they think legato should sound.


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## AEF (Aug 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> Yep! It is the mellow solo horn, but I haven't heard an example that comes anywhere close, especially, near the top of the horn's (or horns') range. It has nothing to do with effects.
> 
> To be clear, I'm not faulting Synchron Brass for not being something that it's not trying to be. It was a statement of my "ideal library." I think everyone with a key should give Synchron Brass a try, especially given VSL's 14-day refund policy. You can probably find 10x more posts of mine here applauding VSL's libraries, software, and policies than not.
> 
> ...


Im just saying that people seem to confuse legato with slurred when it comes to brass.


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## Evans (Aug 1, 2021)

AEF said:


> Im just saying that people seem to confuse legato with slurred when it comes to brass.


Are you saying that those are mutually exclusive? I'm trying to get over language barriers, as English isn't my first and despite decades of it I do still goof.


----------



## holywilly (Aug 1, 2021)

That’s why we need not only ONE library for instruments. Some are easy to write with, some are perfect for layering, and some are pure fun to play with. And not all libraries will fit in one piece of my music.


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## AEF (Aug 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> Are you saying that those are mutually exclusive? I'm trying to get over language barriers, as English isn't my first and despite decades of it I do still goof.


Slurs are always legato.

Legato is not necessarily slurred.


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## Evans (Aug 1, 2021)

Great, just making sure we're on the same page.


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## muziksculp (Aug 1, 2021)

@Evans.


Do you feel libraries like CSB, and IB can better emulate this type of horn legato, heard in the beginning of this track than Synch. Brass can ?

Thanks.


----------



## Evans (Aug 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> @Evans.
> 
> 
> Do you feel libraries like CSB, and IB can better emulate this type of horn legato, heard in the beginning of this track than Synch. Brass can ?
> ...



What my own ears hear as a non brass player is that the hardness of the transition sounds more similar between CSB/IB and the posted track than between SB and the posted track.

My understanding is there are quite a few ways to smooth out such a slur, but I don't think anyone would say that CSB goes through much effort to do so, at least not with any consistency. In contrast, the whole series seems to revel in it, which can actually annoy people.

Synchron is the opposite, in my opinion, in which consistency and precision (with very, very high QA) reigns high.

I somewhat understand the statement that this is an example of why it's great to have many libraries with many options, but I do disagree. I'd rather pay much more to just for the "everything" product for the same hall/stage and be done with it. Any redundant purchases for me would be for different recording spaces.

If Synchron Brass Full is €790, I'd gladly pay at least four times that to have more transition options (and mutes). It's just not practical, however, for a developer, because people's price tolerance has changed in the past 15 or so years. I know we've seen Nick Phoenix lament over that in the past.


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## muziksculp (Aug 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> What my own ears hear as a non brass player is that the hardness of the transition sounds more similar between CSB/IB and the posted track than between SB and the posted track.
> 
> My understanding is there are quite a few ways to smooth out such a slur, but I don't think anyone would say that CSB goes through much effort to do so, at least not with any consistency. In contrast, the whole series seems to revel in it, which can actually annoy people.
> 
> Synchron is the opposite, in my opinion, in which consistency and precision (with very, very high QA) reigns high.


Interesting.

I'm trying to figurer out if the opening horn theme in the track is a solo horn or a few horns. To my ear they are playing a nice legato at mp dynamic.

And.. I'm still trying to decide if I will get Synch.Brass.


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## Evans (Aug 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> And.. I'm still trying to decide if I will get Synch.Brass.


My own signature says "don't listen to my advice," but listen to my advice here: buy it. If you don't like it, return it within 14 days. VSL is incredible that way.


----------



## muziksculp (Aug 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> My own signature says "don't listen to my advice," but listen to my advice here: buy it. If you don't like it, return it within 14 days. VSL is incredible that way.


I'm a fan of VSL libraries, and really like the Synchron Player. I have Synchron Strings Pro, and Elite Strings, also Synchron Strings I (but don't use it). So, adding Synchron Brass would make sense to add to the Synchron EcoSystem. I'm really looking forward to Synchron Woodwinds, and Solo Strings.

So, you have Synchron Brass, on a scale from 1 to 10 , 10 being amazing, what would you rate it at ?

I just got AV IB and IW, I'm guessing you have them as well, and CSB, do you feel SB is an overkill for brass if one has all these other libraries ?

Also love the Studio One and Synchron Player Sound-Variation bi-directional communication, and exchange of keyswitches.

Thanks.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I'm a fan of VSL libraries, and really like the Synchron Player. I have Synchron Strings Pro, and Elite Strings, also Synchron Strings I (but don't use it). So, adding Synchron Brass would make sense to add to the Synchron EcoSystem. I'm really looking forward to Synchron Woodwinds, and Solo Strings.
> 
> So, you have Synchron Brass, on a scale from 1 to 10 , 10 being amazing, what would you rate it at ?
> 
> ...


Why don't you try it out yourself for the 14 day period?


----------



## muziksculp (Aug 1, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Why don't you try it out yourself for the 14 day period?


I might. But, I already feel confident that Synchron Brass is a fantastic sounding brass library. 

I have never used their trial option. How does it work, do you get a trial license for elicenser valid for 14-days to test it ?


----------



## Ben (Aug 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I might. But, I already feel confident that Synchron Brass is a fantastic sounding brass library.
> 
> I have never used their trial option. How does it work, do you get a trial license for elicenser valid for 14-days to test it ?


You buy it. If there is an issue you mail [email protected]
If you are still unsatisfied and want to return it within 14 days you mail [email protected] as well.


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## Evans (Aug 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> So, you have Synchron Brass, on a scale from 1 to 10 , 10 being amazing, what would you rate it at ?


I'm not equipped to do that. I've only spent a couple of hours with it, nor do I think I'm the right person to make such a rating anyway. I only like to point out specific things I hear/don't hear. But overall value is too subjective and restrictive to use cases.



muziksculp said:


> I just got AV IB and IW, I'm guessing you have them as well, and CSB, do you feel SB is an overkill for brass if one has all these other libraries ?


I can give you my perspective of why *I* bought Synchron Brass despite having a few others. While I'm kinda sorta okay at writing, I'm absolutely the worst at blending libraries from different recording spaces together. So, I buy "redundant" libraries (SB, CSB, IB, Opus, etc.) so I can choose the one that fits a project the most and (hopefully) stick with other instruments from the same space.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I might. But, I already feel confident that Synchron Brass is a fantastic sounding brass library.
> 
> I have never used their trial option. How does it work, do you get a trial license for elicenser valid for 14-days to test it ?


You get a full license but can then request a refund within 14 days of activation. I did it with Elite Strings (which I think is an amazing library, but wasn't different enough to Synchron Strings Pro for me). They were very friendly and quickly refunded me.


----------



## muziksculp (Aug 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> I'm not equipped to do that. I've only spent a couple of hours with it, nor do I think I'm the right person to make such a rating.


Ok. I understand.

By the way, the Synchron Player is very powerful, and can be used to tweak the patches quite a bit via layering, and cross fading them, and many other ways. You might want to spend some time experimenting with it, you might be able to get the Skyrim horns type smooth legato you are seeking.


----------



## Sovereign (Aug 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> By the way, the Synchron Player is very powerful, and can be used to tweak the patches quite a bit via layering, and cross fading them, and many other ways. You might want to spend some time experimenting with it, you might be able to get the Skyrim horns type smooth legato you are seeking.


Evans surely means the 'scoops' between the notes, which are more prominent and longer in pretty much every other library, from Cinebrass to JXL and CSB. VSL apparently believes the tradeoff for low latency is worth cutting into the interval transitions to a large degree. Personally I don't like that approach, IMO it killed the fluency of the legato in their strings. 

As for the Far Horizons example above, I think this can be done with SB, the horn 1 legato espressivo patch has enough 'slur' to do it, though perhaps a bit less than other libraries. I like both solo horns.


----------



## Ben (Aug 1, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> VSL apparently believes the tradeoff for low latency is worth cutting into the interval transitions to a large degree. Personally I don't like that approach, IMO it killed the fluency of the legato in their strings.


We already had this discussion once, so just a reminder: We do not cut into the transition.
It was performed this way during the sample recording sessions.


----------



## muziksculp (Aug 1, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> Evans surely means the 'scoops' between the notes, which are more prominent and longer in pretty much every other library, from Cinebrass to JXL and CSB. VSL apparently believes the tradeoff for low latency is worth cutting into the interval transitions to a large degree. Personally I don't like that approach, IMO it killed the fluency of the legato in their strings.
> 
> As for the Far Horizons example above, I think this can be done with SB, the horn 1 legato espressivo patch has enough 'slur' to do it, though perhaps a bit less than other libraries. I like both solo horns.


Hi @Sovereign ,

Would you recommend getting Synchron Brass ? 

Do you find it complementing your other Brass libraries ? 

I'm guessing you have CSB, how would you compare it to Synchron Brass sonically ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Evans (Aug 1, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> Evans surely means the 'scoops' between the notes


This is why you wear the badge you wear.


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## Soundbed (Aug 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> I haven't heard an example that comes anywhere close, especially, near the top of the horn's (or horns') range.


Here's my attempt this morning. I got IB last night. Still exploring all the possibilities, but it seems extremely flexible.

I have a bit of humanization on (10 out of 70) and I have a the pitch accuracy down a touch (so, less accurate, to be slightly more human). This means that each playback will be slightly different, so a disadvantage might be that you might need to "record a couple takes" to pick the one you like the best.

Also the tuning on everything is at A=445Hz to match the soundtrack better.

Other things behind the scenes: I decided to compress the horn a bit (FabFilter Pro-C2) then do some Soothe to remove a bit of resonance near the fundamental to match the reference. I chose the Horn 3 player and moved her to the far left in the Horn L6 position. Reduced the attack and dynamic ranges a bit to help keep my mod wheel moves down. Adjusted the mix. Modulation is on the vibrato a bit esp for the sustained note, which doesn't really match the original so I'd take it out later. Finally, I added some Exponential Audio R4 reverb, to set it back even further.

(Abbey Road One for the strings. The high strings were sordino with some more reverb. The low strings were arco. I might not have gotten the voicing correct and was only looking for a pad sound.)

Thoughts?

Final comparison starts at 1:34


----------



## Evans (Aug 1, 2021)

To my ears: with some massaging, Infinite Brass can get closer than Synchron Brass and Spitfire Symphony Brass for this specific use case.

For what it's worth, my "no example comes close" comment was about any playing I've heard from Synchron Brass (since a prior Stravinsky snippet was called out), not any library ever. JXL, for example, I think does an admirable job.


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## Soundbed (Aug 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> my "no example comes close" comment was about any playing I've heard from Synchron Brass


oh, I misunderstood you then.


----------



## Evans (Aug 1, 2021)

That's because I left room for the misunderstanding with my wording. 

Thanks for the example!


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## Soundbed (Aug 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> That's because I left room for the misunderstanding with my wording.
> 
> Thanks for the example!


No problem. I took it as a challenge. Nice way to "warm up" this morning.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 1, 2021)

Seems like AK Dern may be reviewing this on YouTube soon (along with Afflatus Strings).


----------



## CT (Aug 1, 2021)

Ben said:


> to my knowledge the Skyrim soundtrack was mostly done with VSL VI and GPO + a lot of reverb


Nope....


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 1, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Here's my attempt this morning. I got IB last night. Still exploring all the possibilities, but it seems extremely flexible.
> 
> I have a bit of humanization on (10 out of 70) and I have a the pitch accuracy down a touch (so, less accurate, to be slightly more human). This means that each playback will be slightly different, so a disadvantage might be that you might need to "record a couple takes" to pick the one you like the best.
> 
> ...



For all the playability, IB sure does require a lot of programming...like I said  Hope you're enjoying it though.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 1, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Nope....


You probably should provide more evidence to the contrary if you have further knowledge on the subject.


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## CT (Aug 1, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You probably should provide more evidence to the contrary if you have further knowledge on the subject.


Nope.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 1, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Nope.


I guess we'll have to believe Ben then


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## CT (Aug 1, 2021)

At your own peril!


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## Soundbed (Aug 1, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> For all the playability, IB sure does require a lot of programming...like I said  Hope you're enjoying it though.


I could have simply played it in and it would have sounded good.

The "work" was trying to replicate the nuances of the OST recording, which would have taken effort no matter which library I was using.

And yes IB was exactly what I wanted and expected.

Instead of trying to make the sampled articulations do something they cannot, I'm able to get IB to play "in between the samples" at an almost infinite level of granularity. Very impressive.

*I'm sure Synchron Brass is an excellent package*, and if I didn't already have so much other brass I'm sure I'd be happy to own it.

But your advice helped me realize that IB fills a gap for me, which is to say I wanted something that could go "in between" what other brass typically offers.

Whether or not that result was your precise intention, you did help me, so thanks again!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 1, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I could have simply played it in and it would have sounded good.
> 
> The "work" was trying to replicate the nuances of the OST recording, which would have taken effort no matter which library I was using.
> 
> ...


In the end, we are here to help each other and if you've found a tool that suits you and your workflow, I'm happy for that!


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## markit (Aug 1, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Nope....





Mike T said:


> Nope.





Mike T said:


> At your own peril!


Genuine question: how old are you?


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## CT (Aug 1, 2021)

markit said:


> Genuine question: how old are you?


Hi, I can see this is going to be "a thing" for a certain type of member here, so I'll explain: I merely wanted to point out that the estimation of Skyrim as a VSL/GPO endeavor was false. Didn't have the time at that moment to go into more detail, and I didn't feel any more motivated when it was suggested I defend my claim as though I were standing in front of a thesis board. Furthermore, there've been a number of threads on here on this subject for anyone genuinely interested.


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## markit (Aug 1, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Hi, I can see this is going to be "a thing" for a certain type of member here, so I'll explain: I merely wanted to point out that the estimation of Skyrim as a VSL/GPO endeavor was false. Didn't have the time at that moment to go into more detail, and I didn't feel any more motivated when it was suggested I defend my claim as though I were standing in front of a thesis board. Furthermore, there've been a number of threads on here on this subject for anyone genuinely interested.


Thank you for clarifying, and my apologies. For a few seconds I almost thought you were trolling!


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## CT (Aug 1, 2021)

Apology accepted!


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## muziksculp (Aug 1, 2021)

It would be interesting to highlight what Synchron Brass can do better than other Brass libraries.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 1, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Hi, I can see this is going to be "a thing" for a certain type of member here, so I'll explain: I merely wanted to point out that the estimation of Skyrim as a VSL/GPO endeavor was false. Didn't have the time at that moment to go into more detail, and I didn't feel any more motivated when it was suggested I defend my claim as though I were standing in front of a thesis board. Furthermore, there've been a number of threads on here on this subject for anyone genuinely interested.


I didn’t think I suggested you defend your claim as if it was a thesis. Just that, especially in today’s environment, people can go around saying “not true” to pretty much anything without any evidence to the contrary or responsibility to support their claim, especially when it runs counter to somebody who could be considered an industry insider / expert. Not to say you are not just as much of an insider or are wrong, but just pointing out my take on your response.


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## CT (Aug 1, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I didn’t think I suggested you defend your claim as if it was a thesis. Just that, especially in today’s environment, people can go around saying “not true” to pretty much anything without any evidence to the contrary or responsibility to support their claim, especially when it runs counter to somebody who could be considered an industry insider / expert. Not to say you are not just as much of an insider or are wrong, but just pointing out my take on your response.


I can well understand being wary of anything anyone says on this forum. Just turns out that my response to that wariness when directed at me is to shrug it off rather than go out of my way to allay it (it might be well deserved, after all, what do I know?). Not a big deal!


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## Ben (Aug 1, 2021)

@Mike T Feel free to correct me; it's just what I recalled from my memory, but I didn't double check (writing from my phone, because I took a day off ), so I might be totally off.


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## CT (Aug 1, 2021)

You may be thinking of Oblivion, which did rely a fair bit on VSL!


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## Ben (Aug 1, 2021)

Might be! I'll see if I have the time in the next few days to look into this. Thanks for the hint!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 1, 2021)

Some early thoughts playing around with Trumpet 1 in relation to some other libraries' solo trumpets I have:

Synchron Brass - Much warmer tone than I anticipated, but not overly warm in that there's still some high end bite if you push CC1 to the max. Legato sounds wonderful to me - highly playable. Trumpet 2 offers a totally different flavor (slightly more sharp / nasal with more pronounced vibrato and less top dynamic bite).

CineBrass - SO warm and thick. Dulcet tones. But the consequence is even maxed out, there's no bite at the top of the dynamic range. Not a good choice if you need that. Legato is pretty good (as long as you adjust the settings).

Spitfire Symphonic Brass - Wonderful sound IMO, but lower half of the range doesn't seem to have any bite at max CC1, while top end does. Can be hard for it to cut through. Legato works best on slower lines - can't keep up with enough clarity for faster passages (better to use staccato).

Opus - Nice bite without overdoing it at max CC1. Nice tone, though somewhat on the thin and nasal side with just the main mic - the other mics help a lot though. Legato works well (using Slur Max patch).

Cinematic Studio Brass - Way too bright at the top end IMO, it's like exaggerated compared to the others. I don't put my CC1 beyond like 90-100. Legato is great as expected, but tonally, not my favorite compared to the ones above.

Infinite Brass - If CSB was bright, this thing is like staring at the sun. And it gets overly bright very quickly IMO. Don't want to put CC1 beyond 70. The most malleable, but unexpectedly, ran into issues with playing legato - dropped transitions, notes when playing fast while the other libraries handled the same figuration. The tone here is just not my jam - very thin compared to the others.


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## muziksculp (Aug 1, 2021)

Love the way Trumpet 2 sounds here (I have the video cued at the right point).


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## richhickey (Aug 2, 2021)

The new Synchron Brass solo instruments sound great in general. I wish there were more attack and dynamics options, as there were with the VI series, and some more tools for re-articulated connected lines (could there be a brass equivalent to Elite Strings' fantastic performance detache?), especially at the asking price. I didn't need the Big Bang stuff again, discount notwithstanding.

The tuba though is woefully inarticulate and a big miss compared to the others, IMO.


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## John R Wilson (Aug 2, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Some early thoughts playing around with Trumpet 1 in relation to some other libraries' solo trumpets I have:
> 
> Synchron Brass - Much warmer tone than I anticipated, but not overly warm in that there's still some high end bite if you push CC1 to the max. Legato sounds wonderful to me - highly playable. Trumpet 2 offers a totally different flavor (slightly more sharp / nasal with more pronounced vibrato and less top dynamic bite).
> 
> ...


What's you view on Synchron Brass in direct comparison to Cinebrass core/pro? Any of these libraries still you favourite/main go to library? 

Infinite Brass can get very bright if you ride that mod wheel up high. I often keep it much lower and never ride it right to the top. I've also found that you need to use the mod wheel very differently than normal sampled libraries to get the most out of Infinite Brass. I've found that small dips and rises between transitions is often needed.


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## Simon Ravn (Aug 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Love the way Trumpet 2 sounds here (I have the video cued at the right point).



I think it sounds terrible, unless it's meant for a Mariachi like performance. Which I doubt.

But many other things to like about this library.


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## muziksculp (Aug 2, 2021)

Simon Ravn said:


> I think it sounds terrible, unless it's meant for a Mariachi like performance. Which I doubt.
> 
> But many other things to like about this library.


It's just played with lots of vibrato, not your typical orchestral style of playing, but if you do need a line with vibrato it surely sounds great to me, not sure why you think it sound terrible, it sounds great to me.. Oh.. and I also love Mariachi Trumpet style of playing.


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## Ben (Aug 2, 2021)

In typical orchestral style I would use the non-vibrato option of Trumpet 2. But when you need a trumpet with a nice vibrato, this one sounds so nice! I had a lot of fun with it during testing


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## muziksculp (Aug 2, 2021)

I finally purchased Synchron Brass (Full Library).


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## muziksculp (Aug 2, 2021)

Now... Can we have *Synchron Woodwinds* (Please).


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## holywilly (Aug 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I finally purchased Synchron Brass (Full Library).


Wisely picked


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## Casiquire (Aug 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I finally purchased Synchron Brass (Full Library).


We knew it was just a matter of time!



muziksculp said:


> Now... Can we have *Synchron Woodwinds* (Please).


...we knew it was just a matter of time! 😆


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## SomeGuy (Aug 2, 2021)

Anyone mind sharing what the BBO “soft legato” patch is now named in Synchron Brass? I’ve tried to find it, but none of the articulations in Synchron sound like the BBO ”soft legato” patches. Perhaps this patch was made by limiting velocity layers for BBO and Synchron Brass does not have a patch with this limit? I must admit I really liked it from BBO, especially in the Horns, so I would love to have an official answer on how to match these patches in Sync Brass.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 2, 2021)

Honestly, the first time I played Trumpet 2, I also thought of mariachi. It has that tone and natural vibrato, especially if you're using Con Vibrato. However, you can scale it back using Senza Vibrato or Expressivo. I do prefer the warmer tone of Trumpet 1 most of the time, but unlike most other libraries, you actually have the choice of 2 solo trumpets here. I imagine they blend well as an ensemble, but I haven't tried. You also have recorded ensemble trumpets.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 2, 2021)

John R Wilson said:


> What's you view on Synchron Brass in direct comparison to Cinebrass core/pro? Any of these libraries still you favourite/main go to library?
> 
> Infinite Brass can get very bright if you ride that mod wheel up high. I often keep it much lower and never ride it right to the top. I've also found that you need to use the mod wheel very differently than normal sampled libraries to get the most out of Infinite Brass. I've found that small dips and rises between transitions is often needed.


I need to spend more time comparing. I like Cinebrass's sound, but it is also very limited in terms of articulations and I don't think the scripting is as good as newer libraries. However, it has been a staple for many professional composers for many years - so that's saying something. I've been using Cinematic Studio Brass lately because the Project Colossal template, but the more I use the Cinematic Studio series, the more I get frustrated with their approach to delays. It's super annoying lining things up properly, especially if you have 20-30 tracks. I much prefer VSL / Spitfire's approach here - and I think the legato sounds plenty good.


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## muziksculp (Aug 2, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> but the more I use the Cinematic Studio series, the more I get frustrated with their approach to delays


They will be updating all of their other libraries with the Low-Latency Legato mode. Same as the one they have in CSW 1.3


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## Casiquire (Aug 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> They will be updating all of their other libraries with the Low-Latency Legato mode. Same as the one they have in CSW 1.3


It seems like it'll still be a minute though.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> They will be updating all of their other libraries with the Low-Latency Legato mode. Same as the one they have in CSW 1.3


I don’t find their new approach any better. It still has variable delay.


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## muziksculp (Aug 2, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I don’t find their new approach any better. It still has variable delay.


The new Low-Latency mode has been a big improvement for me to play in real time. The delay/variable delay doesn't bother me anymore.


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## Casiquire (Aug 2, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I don’t find their new approach any better. It still has variable delay.


Does it? I was under the impression they're going to implement a consistent delay but i don't have CSW so i haven't seen it for myself. That would be really disappointing if not. I'm spoiled by MSS now


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## muziksculp (Aug 2, 2021)

Actually, I don't know if the new Low-Latency mode is a variable delay, or just a constant delay.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 2, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Does it? I was under the impression they're going to implement a consistent delay but i don't have CSW so i haven't seen it for myself. That would be really disappointing if not. I'm spoiled by MSS now


Yup - "Low latency mode only has two delays Medium, which is around 90ms, and Fast which is about 70ms."

I don't really understand their point. They went from 3 zones to 2 zones of variable delay and they are still about the same delay as fast on the normal legato. Also they still have a _different_ delay for the shorts and other articulations like longs. CSS already has a 2 zone standard legato mode so I don't know what they're really going to do differently for this new "low latency mode" there. MSS really is the king in that regard. All handled automatically. Or use somebody like VSL or Spitfire or Berlin series or CineSamples.


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## Casiquire (Aug 2, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Yup - "Low latency mode only has two delays Medium, which is around 90ms, and Fast which is about 70ms."
> 
> I don't really understand their point. They went from 3 zones to 2 zones of variable delay and they are still about the same delay as fast on the normal legato. Also they still have a _different_ delay for the shorts and other articulations like longs. CSS already has a 2 zone standard legato mode so I don't know what they're really going to do differently for this new "low latency mode" there. MSS really is the king in that regard. All handled automatically. Or use somebody like VSL or Spitfire or Berlin series or CineSamples.


Aside from low latency mode though, I'm surprised they didn't give a standardized One Delay to Rule Them All option. That's disappointing.

It's beyond disappointing, I'm surprised we aren't all on the same page that it's unacceptable


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## John R Wilson (Aug 2, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I need to spend more time comparing. I like Cinebrass's sound, but it is also very limited in terms of articulations and I don't think the scripting is as good as newer libraries. However, it has been a staple for many professional composers for many years - so that's saying something. I've been using Cinematic Studio Brass lately because the Project Colossal template, but the more I use the Cinematic Studio series, the more I get frustrated with their approach to delays. It's super annoying lining things up properly, especially if you have 20-30 tracks. I much prefer VSL / Spitfire's approach here - and I think the legato sounds plenty good.


I am a fan of Cinebrass tone. Cinematic studio brass was one I had been considering getting. Have got CSS which is great but I never ended up getting Cinematic Studio Brass or Woodwinds.

I'm just trying to weigh in what Synchron Brass may add to my current libraries. However, I am tempted to start going more the VSL route when considering any more libraries going forward, just because they offer 14 day returns, allow resales and are going to be using Ilok.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 2, 2021)

John R Wilson said:


> I am a fan of Cinebrass tone. Cinematic studio brass was one I had been considering getting. Have got CSS which is great but I never ended up getting Cinematic Studio Brass or Woodwinds.
> 
> I'm just trying to weigh in what Synchron Brass may add to my current libraries. However, I am tempted to start going more the VSL route when considering any more libraries going forward, just because they offer 14 day returns, allow resales and are going to be using Ilok.


You can’t go wrong with Cinematic Studio Series - and similarly, you can’t go wrong with VSL. Top tier quality for both IMO.


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## John R Wilson (Aug 2, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You can’t go wrong with Cinematic Studio Series - and similarly, you can’t go wrong with VSL. Top tier quality for both IMO.


Absolutely agree, after getting a few VSL libraries I can see how well put together they are and how good the player is, probably my favourite player currently. The pianos are brilliant! CSB and CSW look great and sound great as well!


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## ptram (Aug 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> The new Low-Latency mode has been a big improvement for me to play in real time.


Argh. So, we try to have a Cinesamples-like slow legato in VSL, and Cinesamples is trying to have a VSL-like fast legato!

Paolo


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## Casiquire (Aug 2, 2021)

ptram said:


> Argh. So, we try to have a Cinesamples-like slow legato in VSL, and Cinesamples is trying to have a VSL-like fast legato!
> 
> Paolo


I'm guessing you're referring to Cinematic Series. Speaking for myself, i want to have a slower legato with a manageable and consistent handling of the delay. The simple truth, to my ears, is that a longer transition sample brings life and authenticity to the sound, but at the cost of playability and convenience. We're about to see more releases with legato delay and how they handle that balance will, i think, be a factor in how well they do.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 2, 2021)

Messed around with the trombone ensemble and tuba for a bit. There was some MIDI of Mahler's 2nd posted in another thread, so was using that to compare libraries. This particular passage calls for very soft and warm playing - spoiler alert, none of the libraries could match the live recording exactly.

Synchron - as is VSL's reputation, consistent quality and tone is on display. Also, SB gives you variety in terms of instruments - solo tenor, solo bass, 4 bone and 9 bone ensembles. Tonally, relatively well matched for this piece - especially when coupling timbre adjust with velocity XF to really get that mellow tone (even further still with espressivo). But dynamic range is great as well - ensemble gets brassy if needed (but not as much as some other ones). Tuba sounds fantastic. Legato for both is excellent. The full mic range really gives you options for tweaking the tone (though in terms of upper end brightness, even the "Enraged" preset didn't go as bright and buzzy as some other libraries with either ensemble patch).

Spitfire Symphonic - rather disappointed in the 6 trombone patch here, because the lowest dynamic layer is still quite mp / bright. The 2 bone patch is better, but still not as mellow as needed for this piece. On the ff side, the 6 bone patch is very aggressive and bright, while there's not enough bite on the 2 bone patch.

CineBrass - The king of mellow? Not as soft or rounded as Synchron actually, but has that rich, majestic tone to it. Nice bite at the upper end of the dynamics too. One thing I've noticed with CB is the dynamic layer crossfading is very seamless and smooth (especially compared to something like CSB which has pretty abrupt transitions).

Cinematic Studio Brass - I really dislike niente patches, but I understand why they do it. Personally though I'd rather have full control of volume with expression and let CC1 control dynamic layers. Anyway, CSB does quite well here in terms of keeping things mellow and of course also gets super brassy. Not as warm and mellow as Synchron but close - and has a much brighter top end. Downside is it only offers a 2 bone ensemble patch.

Opus - The more I compare with Opus the more I like it. I think EW did a great job here (of course the original samples were great to start with). Only a 2 bone patch again, but with 5 (!) dynamic layers - though I think the top layer could've been even brighter with more bite. Not as warm or rounded as Synchron at the lower dynamic end.

BBCSO - does surprisingly well here because you don't need bright cuivre-style brass and one of it's two dynamic layers is quite mellow and round.

What continues to be very clear is all of these libraries are capable - and they all sound quite different to each other. You can certainly get by with one - which one though is the tricky thing. For this particular comparison round, I would say VSL, CSB, or Opus would be my picks. Very hard choice though - and certainly to get any of these if you already have the others, an even harder choice because I'm not finding any particular one to be head and shoulders above the pack in terms of what it offers, how it sounds, etc. I think something like Berlin Brass or Modern Scoring Brass would bring those individual instruments to the table, but then Synchron has the recorded ensembles (plus the soloists), while CSB has the legato many people like and CineBrass has that rich, warm tone to it.


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## Erisno (Aug 3, 2021)

There is one Synchron Brass feature that is not mentioned here a lot, and that's the customizability. If you want to have a different sound than someone else, you can. I was surprised, how many options there are regarding the mix (of course, you can use one of the presets). With the many microphones, you can create scoring stage sound, concert sound, epic and even dry sound typical for jazz or cabaret. Just play around with the panning, channel delay, volume or reverb. There are four types of reverb in Synchron player - plate, room, algorithmic and impulse response (If you own any Synchron-ized libraries, you can create new mixes when you load an IR on any microphone of Synchron libraries).

Regarding the tone of the library, you can change that at any time as well. Each microphone channel has a five-band EQ. Additionally, there are integrated plugins you can use (like Saturator, Phaser, Widener and more). There is also time-stretching, meaning you can create additional options for the articulations. Time stretching is recommended to be used on short notes, but you can also use it on legato if your computer can handle it.


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## ansthenia (Aug 3, 2021)

Erisno said:


> There are four types of reverb in Synchron player - plate, room, algorithmic and impulse response (If you own any Synchron-ized libraries, you can create new mixes when you load an IR on any microphone of Synchron libraries).
> 
> Regarding the tone of the library, you can change that at any time as well. Each microphone channel has a five-band EQ. Additionally, there are integrated plugins you can use (like Saturator, Phaser, Widener and more). There is also time-stretching, meaning you can create additional options for the articulations. Time stretching is recommended to be used on short notes, but you can also use it on legato if your computer can handle it.


The reason not many people bring this up or care about it is because they already have all these options in their DAW to apply to any library or sound they want.


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## Casiquire (Aug 3, 2021)

ansthenia said:


> The reason not many people bring this up or care about it is because they already have all these options in their DAW to apply to any library or sound they want.


Your DAW can't replace the mic positions or time stretching features though


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## Evans (Aug 3, 2021)

Yeah, perhaps "all these options in their DAW" is a bit much, but I do feel like the tablestakes stuff is just UI clutter and unnecessary dev time.

EDIT: my opinion only...

Unless, of course, someone is using Synchron Player as standalone. Then, it's pretty important, especially for something that might more often be used standalone, such as the piano releases.


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## Ben (Aug 3, 2021)

ansthenia said:


> The reason not many people bring this up or care about it is because they already have all these options in their DAW to apply to any library or sound they want.


But your DAW does not provide already many pre-configured presets for exact this library/instrument that make use of these plugins, does it?
It might not be important for you, but especially for beginners it is an awesome learning resource imo.


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## Ben (Aug 3, 2021)

Evans said:


> tablestakes stuff


Sorry, I don't get this.


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## Evans (Aug 3, 2021)

ansthenia's comment is still accurate, though, since it was a response as to why "not many" bring up half of those features, which is therefore why it's not often seen discussed here (except for the pianos, which seems far more often brought up in threads).



Ben said:


> Sorry, I don't get this.


"Tablestakes" meaning an expected minimum set of capabilities (plugins) you would have in any DAW, like saturation. I think it comes from poker, as in the minimum money a player must put on the table to play the game.

BTW, congratulations on the Anne-Kathrin Dern video. Her YouTube channel is gold.


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## markit (Aug 3, 2021)

@Ben Apologies for the beginner question: is it possible to route specific mics in Synchron player to different busses in my DAW? The output of each mic can be set from 1 to 10, but I have no idea how to proceed from there!

Also: BBO instruments all have a plate reverb, while Synchron Brass uses a room one. Would you suggest consolidating them all in my project when instruments from different libraries are paired?


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## Ben (Aug 3, 2021)

Evans said:


> BTW, congratulations on the Anne-Kathrin Dern video. Her YouTube channel is gold.


Yes, it is!


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## Ben (Aug 3, 2021)

markit said:


> @Ben Apologies for the beginner question: is it possible to route specific mics in Synchron player to different busses in my DAW? The output of each mic can be set from 1 to 10, but I have no idea how to proceed from there!


Depends on your DAW. In Cubase you have to enable the additional outputs.



markit said:


> Also: BBO instruments all have a plate reverb, while Synchron Brass uses a room one. Would you suggest consolidating them all in my project when instruments from different libraries are paired?


Depends on your setup and the sound you want to achieve. If you mix it with other libraries you might want to try to disable the plate/room reverb in the Synchron player and use a reverb per stem / on the master instead (if you have a good reverb plugin).


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## ptram (Aug 3, 2021)

ansthenia said:


> The reason not many people bring this up or care about it is because they already have all these options in their DAW to apply to any library or sound they want.


If each mic channel is processed separately, that's correct. If processing is only applied to all the mics mixed together, it's something different. Processing in Synchron Player can be done for each mic channel separately, and that's where one can sculpt the sound in the most effective way, using EQ, compression, delay.

I must add that the integrated effects are the same as in Vienna Suite, and as far as I can say they have a transparent quality that I’ve not found in Logic or Cubase, or in the third party plug-ins I could try. When summing them up, I find that transparency can translate positively in an orchestral mix.

Paolo


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## markit (Aug 3, 2021)

Ben said:


> Depends on your DAW. In Cubase you have to enable the additional outputs.


I am actually using VEP! (To Cubase)
I was looking for some info in the manual but couldn’t find any.

Thanks for clarifying the reverb situation! 👍


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## Ben (Aug 3, 2021)

markit said:


> I am actually using VEP! (To Cubase)
> I was looking for some info in the manual but couldn’t find any.


Here you go: 





Multi-timbral plugins in Vienna Ensemble Pro | VSL - Software Manuals







www.vsl.info


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 3, 2021)

Hmm was hoping for an non-sponsored review from AKD with her usually unfiltered honest thoughts (pros and cons). This one is very much a promo.

Would be interesting if somebody out there has SB and Berlin Brass or MSB to hear some comparative thoughts.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Aug 3, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Hmm was hoping for an non-sponsored review from AKD with her usually unfiltered honest thoughts (pros and cons). This one is very much a promo.
> 
> Would be interesting if somebody out there has SB and Berlin Brass or MSB to hear some comparative thoughts.


Exact thinking, but I hesitated to say it.


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## muziksculp (Aug 3, 2021)

AKD wrote that she will be making a more detailed walkthrough review of Synchron Brass on her YT channel.

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/new-synchron-brass.111681/post-4881911


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> AKD wrote that she will be making a more detailed walkthrough review of Synchron Brass on her YT channel.
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/new-synchron-brass.111681/post-4881911


I can’t imagine it’ll be as unbiased as her other videos though. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you and all that. But looking forward to it nevertheless. She’s a CinrBrass user so hoping she provides some thoughts vs. that.

@muziksculp You own Berlin Brass right? How are you liking SB in comparison?


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## Toecutter (Aug 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> AKD wrote that she will be making a more detailed walkthrough review of Synchron Brass on her YT channel.
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/new-synchron-brass.111681/post-4881911


I hope she revisits the mockup and adds vibrato, the original cue has some strategically placed vibrato that adds so much expression... I was curious to hear how SB would tackle Williams vibrato but it's been omitted from the mockup, example 2:15 

Tone is  as always!


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## muziksculp (Aug 3, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I can’t imagine it’ll be as unbiased as her other videos though. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you and all that. But looking forward to it nevertheless. She’s a CinrBrass user so hoping she provides some thoughts vs. that.
> 
> @muziksculp You own Berlin Brass right? How are you liking SB in comparison?


Yes, I have Berlin Brass, but I haven't installed Synchron Brass yet.


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## muziksculp (Aug 3, 2021)

I came across this demo of Synchron Brass, done with only the Solo Brass Instruments, no ensembles used. I love the way it sounds.


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## muziksculp (Aug 3, 2021)




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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Yes, I have Berlin Brass, but I haven't installed Synchron Brass yet.


I look forward to your comparison


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 4, 2021)

I wanted to share a comparison I made with another library and see what folks thought. Two files - one comparing trumpets (playing solo trumpet shorts at forte and then softer, trumpet ens shorts at forte and then softer, and lastly, two lines of solo trumpet legato) and one comparing horns (playing solo horn legato and then horn ensemble marcato).

It is Synchron Brass and one other library and I don't switch the order of the comparison (that is, either SB goes first always or the other library goes first always). Was an educational experience trying to match the performance.



Spoiler: Reveal



The first library in both comparisons is Modern Scoring Brass by Audiobro. I don't own it so I recorded the lines Andrew played in the walkthroughs and then tried to match with Synchron Brass. Some drawbacks I found when using SB were related to how SB's legato had trouble with some faster lines, the lack of a variety of short lengths for the ensemble patches, and difficulty in the tonal / dynamic matching when trying to switch between articulations. I tried to match the tone / dynamics to the MSB lines as best as I could, but had to resort to use Timbre Adjust for the trumpets to try and mellow it out enough.

Certainly gave me food for thought doing this type of comparison. MSB seems unpopular here or at least underrepresented, but it is also one of the only libraries with individual players recorded. I know some folks have said they dislike the tone, but in this particular comparison, I didn't come away thinking that.


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## Casiquire (Aug 5, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I wanted to share a comparison I made with another library and see what folks thought. Two files - one comparing trumpets (playing solo trumpet shorts at forte and then softer, trumpet ens shorts at forte and then softer, and lastly, two lines of solo trumpet legato) and one comparing horns (playing solo horn legato and then horn ensemble marcato).
> 
> It is Synchron Brass and one other library and I don't switch the order of the comparison (that is, either SB goes first always or the other library goes first always). Was an educational experience trying to match the performance.
> 
> ...


I preferred the first one. The dynamics were more nuanced and the performance was more expressive. The second was more loud and bright


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## Toecutter (Aug 5, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I wanted to share a comparison I made with another library and see what folks thought. Two files - one comparing trumpets (playing solo trumpet shorts at forte and then softer, trumpet ens shorts at forte and then softer, and lastly, two lines of solo trumpet legato) and one comparing horns (playing solo horn legato and then horn ensemble marcato).
> 
> It is Synchron Brass and one other library and I don't switch the order of the comparison (that is, either SB goes first always or the other library goes first always). Was an educational experience trying to match the performance.


I prefer the second one. Now to the spoiler reveal...

after reveal: makes sense XD


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## ptram (Aug 5, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I wanted to share a comparison I made with another library


Nice comparison. I liked them both. However, the second trumpet in the example should have more close/mid mics, to make the sound as full bodied as the first one.

Paolo


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## Evans (Aug 5, 2021)

I think trumpets are one of the better achievements in the "spoiler" library. It's within the higher dynamics on horns and trombones where it gets the most criticism, especially in a full mix.


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## Evans (Aug 5, 2021)

It's already been revealed! Check the Spoiler button.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 5, 2021)

ptram said:


> Nice comparison. I liked them both. However, the second trumpet in the example should have more close/mid mics, to make the sound as full bodied as the first one.
> 
> Paolo


Yeah I left it on the default mix but then adjusted those particular mics on the horns comparison to try and make it a little more similar.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 5, 2021)

Evans said:


> I think trumpets are one of the better achievements in the "spoiler" library. It's within the higher dynamics on horns and trombones where it gets the most criticism, especially in a full mix.


Interesting - I didn’t hear anything that jumped out as poor in the horns or trombones examples I listened to. What’s the common criticism there?


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## Evans (Aug 5, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Interesting - I didn’t hear anything that jumped out as poor in the horns or trombones examples I listened to. What’s the common criticism there?


I've seen commentary similar to this on several posts at multiple forums (including outside of VI-C, from contributors with a good few imdb credits):





Audiobro Modern Scoring Brass or Berlin Brass?


I'm interested in Audiobro's Mod Scoring Brass. I like the idea that I can use divisi (a2 etc) and I'm considering picking up LASS 3 when it finally drops so once I know the engine I can use it for both. But .. y'know... Berlin? Does anyone have experience with both / either and anyone care to...




vi-control.net





I read through the very long MSB thread at VI-C, as well as the SoundBoard thread, multiple times before picking it up. It's by no means a loss, even though brass _rarely_ makes even the slightest appearance in a paid engagement for me. Quite a bit of it is really good, in my tiny opinion.


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## CT (Aug 5, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I preferred the first one. The dynamics were more nuanced and the performance was more expressive. The second was more loud and bright


Listening on a phone for now, but even in that context I prefer the first too, and I'm a bit surprised to read which was which.


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 5, 2021)

Just saw this video. Love her take on Synchron Brass. Although, overall, I found the sound to be a little muddy maybe the sound’s just naked but still, yea, I like it.

Anne Kathrin Dern on Synchron Brass


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 5, 2021)

Evans said:


> I've seen commentary similar to this on several posts at multiple forums (including outside of VI-C, from contributors with a good few imdb credits):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I read that thread here and it seems a lot of the lingering sentiments are based on that single post (because it is really one of the few in-depth posts you can find on this library). Putting aside the tone comments there since that’s pretty subjective, I find the dynamics comments pretty surprising given my test / comparison. I had to work somewhat hard to try and get SB to match the dynamic range (as you can hear in the trumpet comparison) - resorting to timbre adjust as well. Dynamic inconsistency across articulations was also something I called out in SB. As an owner of MSB, do you agree with the sentiments in that post by Purple?


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## Casiquire (Aug 5, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Listening on a phone for now, but even in that context I prefer the first too, and I'm a bit surprised to read which was which.



Big spoilers ahead about which libraries were used.


I was surprised too but I'm getting less and less surprised by it over time. I think we as a community never properly gave MSB the attention we maybe should have. After using MSS and LASS i can kind of understand why. I'm very much ready to re-evaluate MSB

On the other hand VSL is known for pristine and sometimes inhumanly perfect sounds that need a lot of sculpting, so the horn example especially sounded static to me by comparison. That can be fixed of course, but sometimes it's nice not to have to worry about coaxing more humanity out of samples. Ideally, we'd have both philosophies of sampling represented in our templates.

Anyway i didn't think either of them sounded BAD, but the amount of times the first library has surprised me for sounding GOOD is starting to become a pattern.


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## Evans (Aug 5, 2021)

(EDIT: talking about modern scoring brass, here)

It's not the range itself, as it's broad without trying to kill the performers. Rather, it's more like a forceful loudness in playing doesn't (always) behave well in the room in which it was recorded.

Some rooms take incredibly well to certain instruments, it seems. How many people gush over CineBrass, but take issue with CineWinds? How many people say the percussion in AR1OF is among the best, even without it having any extended techniques?

One thing that I should have called out is that I feel this problem for MSB varies greatly within the playable range. I _think_ most of my problems with the trombone, for example, were within the lower half of its register. I like to "QA" my libraries for a few days once I get them, so that I can see where I need to adjust up and down the keyboard at varying dynamics (or find game-breaking bugs). I'm not a fast writer, so when I do have a job I can't be finding these out live and make quick adjustments. So, this was on some very clinical tests of chromatic scales and common intervals that I always do.

Unless I'm misremembering, the other forum I mentioned has a good few audio examples posted there, many by Guy Rowland.

I'll also comment that a lot of people seemed to take issue with "thin" or "buzzy" trumpets in the official audio demos. I didn't have that same perception.


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## Casiquire (Aug 5, 2021)

Evans said:


> It's not the range itself, as it's broad without trying to kill the performers. Rather, it's more like a forceful loudness in playing doesn't (always) behave well in the room in which it was recorded.
> 
> Some rooms take incredibly well to certain instruments, it seems. How many people gush over CineBrass, but take issue with CineWinds? How many people say the percussion in AR1OF is among the best, even without it having any extended techniques?
> 
> ...


Which library are you referring to? i agree completely with your assessment of room sound


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## Evans (Aug 5, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Which library are you referring to? i agree completely with the first bit of your post


Sorry, I'm still responding to the earlier convo re: MSB. Thanks for asking for clarification.


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## Casiquire (Aug 5, 2021)

Evans said:


> Sorry, I'm still responding to the earlier convo re: MSB. Thanks for asking for clarification.


I'm with you then. Total agreement.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 5, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Big spoilers ahead about which libraries were used.
> 
> 
> I was surprised too but I'm getting less and less surprised by it over time. I think we as a community never properly gave MSB the attention we maybe should have. After using MSS and LASS i can kind of understand why. I'm very much ready to re-evaluate MSB
> ...


Interestingly the only reason I got interested in MSB was because of how good MSS is (and I have LASS and was not a fan). I think MSS is another one that gets a “bad rep” on Vi-C but to me sounds great in nearly every comparison I’ve done with it. Granted this is also why I’ve bought SB - because of how much I like Synchron Strings Pro.


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## CT (Aug 5, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Big spoilers ahead about which libraries were used.
> 
> 
> I was surprised too but I'm getting less and less surprised by it over time. I think we as a community never properly gave MSB the attention we maybe should have. After using MSS and LASS i can kind of understand why. I'm very much ready to re-evaluate MSB
> ...


...although, upon proper non-phone listening, I find Synchron Brass generally more tasteful.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 7, 2021)

More comparisons for my own benefit. This time I'll be comparing:

- Solo horn - SB + 2 other libraries
- Horn ensemble - SB + 2 other libraries
- Trumpet ensemble - SB + 3 other libraries

As before, the order of the libraries will remain the same throughout but isn't necessarily what I did before or what I listed above.



Spoiler: Answers



The first library in all the comparisons was Synchron Brass, using Horn 1, Horns a6, and Trumpets a4. Once again, the ensembles are not as deeply sampled as the new solo instruments and you may perhaps miss things at times like a faster legato setting or multiple short lengths (if you didn't want to use time stretching).

The second library was Berlin Brass, recorded from their walkthrough videos as I don't own it - though this comparison may have convinced me that I should. For the horn ensemble, it was using their horn ensemble patch, but for the trumpet ensemble, it was their three solo trumpets recorded independently, playing together. Multiple note attacks and legato types is clearly a benefit.

The third library was JunkieXL / TH Brass. I missed having note attack control here, though for the trumpet ensemble comparison, I just changed the ADSR envelope - but how often as you going to be automating that? Soft sustain patch did not work for this example, so had to resort to the envelope. There's something present in that 2-2.3khz range with JXL brass that I prefer to remove (I didn't for this example though). The dynamic range is intense here - 5 layers, and definitely goes way more FFF than SB.

The final library just for the trumpet ensemble comparison was the Trumpets a2 patch from Cinematic Studio Brass.

After this, similar to before, I'm a little torn on keeping Synchron Brass - especially given the price of the full version. I can get Berlin Brass (at a discount) or Modern Scoring Brass for like 50-60% of the price. I think the Standard version would be more than enough for me, but even that is more expensive than those two at its intro price.


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## Casiquire (Aug 7, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> More comparisons for my own benefit. This time I'll be comparing:
> 
> - Solo horn - SB + 2 other libraries
> - Horn ensemble - SB + 2 other libraries
> ...


I for one love when you do these and i was surprised by the answers. I was ready for the library i own to sound horrible (if it was included; i listened before checking the answers though) but it actually sounded the best all around. The first sounded oddly choppy to me in the horn example and the second stood out for its smooth and tasteful trumpets. I expected different results


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 7, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I for one love when you do these and i was surprised by the answers. I was ready for the library i own to sound horrible (if it was included; i listened before checking the answers though) but it actually sounded the best all around. The first sounded oddly choppy to me in the horn example and the second stood out for its smooth and tasteful trumpets. I expected different results


Which number did you think sounded best? Curious which library you own


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## Zanshin (Aug 7, 2021)

There’s definitely diminishing returns with the full version. I bought standard first, upgraded to full because I will upgrade to full for Elite Strings at some point. Full is nice to have but I would have been happy with standard as well.

I was disappointed for example the ribbon mic is only used for the solo patches, I guess I thought it would be consistently used through out (like Elite Strings). 

Anyway, if someone is on the fence and thinking full or nothing, allow yourself to consider just standard. Standard contains 90% of the magic IMO.


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## The Darris (Aug 7, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I wanted to share a comparison I made with another library and see what folks thought. Two files - one comparing trumpets (playing solo trumpet shorts at forte and then softer, trumpet ens shorts at forte and then softer, and lastly, two lines of solo trumpet legato) and one comparing horns (playing solo horn legato and then horn ensemble marcato).
> 
> It is Synchron Brass and one other library and I don't switch the order of the comparison (that is, either SB goes first always or the other library goes first always). Was an educational experience trying to match the performance.
> 
> ...


One of the things you could have done to give you a longer short length would have been to create a stack for the Portato or Portato Long shorts and layer one of the Staccato patches with it to give it a more pointed attack. You can do this all in one instance of the Synchron Player. The beauty of Synchron Brass is that their sample editing is impeccable. You can layer many of the shorts together to give you the right type of attack you want with the right type of length you want too without sacrificing phasing or weird timing issues due to crappy editing.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 7, 2021)

The Darris said:


> One of the things you could have done to give you a longer short length would have been to create a stack for the Portato or Portato Long shorts and layer one of the Staccato patches with it to give it a more pointed attack. You can do this all in one instance of the Synchron Player. The beauty of Synchron Brass is that their sample editing is impeccable. You can layer many of the shorts together to give you the right type of attack you want with the right type of length you want too without sacrificing phasing or weird timing issues due to crappy editing.


Ensemble patches do not have portato recorded though.


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## The Darris (Aug 7, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> There’s definitely diminishing returns with the full version. I bought standard first, upgraded to full because I will upgrade to full for Elite Strings at some point. Full is nice to have but I would have been happy with standard as well.
> 
> I was disappointed for example the ribbon mic is only used for the solo patches, I guess I thought it would be consistently used through out (like Elite Strings).
> 
> Anyway, if someone is on the fence and thinking full or nothing, allow yourself to consider just standard. Standard contains 90% of the magic IMO.


For me, the magic of the Full version lies in the main Surround mic and the Close Back Mics for the solo horns. The surround mic gives more depth and width without muddying the sound while the close back mic actually captures more of the brassy timbre in the horns which aren't very present in any of the standard version mics. 

As for the mic options between Soloist and Ensembles. You have to remember that the Ensembles were from different libraries designed specifically for the Big Bang Orchestra collection. This was one of my biggest criticisms in my review. I really wish they had recorded the more normal sized sections to go with the soloists (3 Trp, 4 Horns, 3 Tbn). My guess is they have plans to do those in a separate library meant to act as an expansion on what they've done here. This is merely a starter kit to give you the more serene, soloist options of brass while striding that line for the big epic sound that is still in the zeitgeist. So, we'll see what happens.


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## Casiquire (Aug 7, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Which number did you think sounded best? Curious which library you own


The second, to both questions


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## The Darris (Aug 7, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Ensemble patches do not have portato recorded though.


Very true, see above "rant." Yes, the biggest drawback of this library is the lack of consistent articulations between soloists and sections. You can sorta fudge with using the sfz longs but adjust your envelope a bit and the ends of your midi notes to create your own short. It's doable but takes a bit of effort. However, the soloists can do it no problem and the results are fantastic, especially in the Trumpets.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 7, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> The second, to both questions


You don't happen to have MSB too, do you?  BB seems awfully compelling as I research it more.


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## Casiquire (Aug 7, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You don't happen to have MSB too, do you?  BB seems awfully compelling as I research it more.


I do not but my experience with MSS is strongly correlated with this weird itch in my wallet. Strange, given its emptiness


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 7, 2021)

@amadeus1 Came across your horn video comparison from a couple of years ago. Which one do you still like out of Modern Scoring Brass and Berlin Brass? How are you enjoying the VSL ones still?


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## muziksculp (Aug 8, 2021)




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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 8, 2021)

Certainly not the best mockup - and definitely not a section of music meant to show off brass, but as I was doing it, I thought I'd throw in a version with just Synchron Brass as well. One is all SB and one is a mixture of some stuff I have (excluding SB).



Spoiler: Answers



A - mostly JXL plus the Spitfire Symphonic Brass tuba
B - Synchron Brass


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 9, 2021)

Wanted to say how appreciative I am of VSL's general sales policies. Upgrade pricing, demos, full and standard options, hassle-free refunds, license transfers. While Synchron Brass ended up not being for me, I will continue to keep VSL on the top of my consideration list as they come out with more libraries thanks to their policy.


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## Toecutter (Aug 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


>



wow just wow, congrats @Guy Bacos


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## dunamisstudio (Aug 9, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Sonore, awesome tone, expressive af, improved legatos compared to CBC and CBP but it has that 80s Williams vibe only... Synchron Brass can do that and a lot more


I was reading through Cinebrass libraries again and noticed the story about Sonore. Noticed this comment after reading through this thread again. How can that be done?


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 12, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> wow just wow, congrats @Guy Bacos


Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.


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## holywilly (Aug 13, 2021)

Just finish new template with Synchron Brass. Wow, layering solo instruments on top of the ensembles sounds insanely good!


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## SlHarder (Aug 13, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.


@Guy Bacos 
Thanks for the effort you put into vids like Chopin. 

The multi window presentation documents the finesse that Synchron player controllers provide.

Watching VelXF and TimbreAdjust do the work while Expression was still clued me into an effective workflow for SynBrass. Lots to learn here.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 13, 2021)




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## SlHarder (Aug 13, 2021)

Guy mentioned he was using SynBrass in upcoming project. And he has spent the time to be familiar with the articulations. So his thumbs up recommendation is based on more than the passing glance he gives some libraries he reviews. SynBrass looks to be a keeper for him.


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## Evans (Aug 13, 2021)

Yeah, this video in and of itself doesn't feel much like a review to me. Less thorough than most of his others, at least. More like a half-walkthrough/half-ad of sorts.

As Guy said himself in the video, it's sort of a "lightning fast test drive" (15m35s).


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## Toecutter (Aug 13, 2021)

Evans said:


> Yeah, this video in and of itself doesn't feel much like a review to me. Less thorough than most of his others, at least. More like a half-walkthrough/half-ad of sorts.
> 
> As Guy said himself in the video, it's sort of a "lightning fast test drive" (15m35s).


Usually a big fan of Guy but this wasn't good  I can tell he has no clue how to use SB and I don't blame him, it's a complex library that needs time and dedication. I get why developers give copies to big youtubers but at least make a requirement that the reviewer really studies your product. If I went blind to this video I'd thought SB was another soulless VSL library from the old days. For 3k views? meh.. Glad we have Fabio's walkthroughs.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 14, 2021)

As far as the patches that only have one dynamic layer seems like it's the following:

both Sfz
the softer swell
all crescendos


all in all, it was worth a shot but I don't like the timbre control, it's a filter that feels too much of something I became critical of with sample modelling. It's just hard to unhear. The lack of marcato/portato when you only have 2 sfz at F and MF and one short(the agile one doesnt feel significantly shorter than the bold) hurt the library. It has alot of the nice stuff I miss from berlin brass(like crescendos) but missing multiple length shorts narrows the writing more than I'd like.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 14, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Hmm... whatcha mean? There are 4 shorts though in the trumpets and horns. 3 of those shorts have the bold/agile sub articulations: Staccato Short, Staccato Long, Portato, and Portato Long, plus the upbeats for double/triple tongue figures.
> 
> That is a total of 10 different ways of playing short notes, not counting the velocity layers.


Lowest common denominator here, ensembles don't use them.

It's still a good library, but it's strengths are less important than it's weaknesses to me.


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Aug 14, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Lowest common denominator here, ensembles don't use them.
> 
> It's still a good library, but it's strengths are less important than it's weaknesses to me.


Oh… well an a4 staccato note with live players is never going to be so crisp that it would warrant a very short, and then a regular short. But this could also be solved with a little time stretching and blending in the soloists.

Portato would be rad though… but there are also layering/workarounds for that too that are compelling.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 15, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Oh… well an a4 staccato note with live players is never going to be so crisp that it would warrant a very short, and then a regular short. But this could also be solved with a little time stretching and blending in the soloists.
> 
> Portato would be rad though… but there are also layering/workarounds for that too that are compelling.




The most mocked up piece on the forum FWIW 

But my main issue isn't the two staccato, it's the lack of in between. 

I've got some other issues with the library/player but this is one of the main deal breakers for me. It can still make music, but its mostly incompatible with me.


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## Petrucci (Aug 15, 2021)

I've done my new track with a little bit from Synchron Brass - hope it doesn't do disservice) I love the solo instruments, will use them a ton. With Ensembles, I was totally all right with BBO Brass but a lot of new content is so much welcome!

Listen to Vegetable's Magic (Little Stories OST) by Artem Akmulin on #SoundCloud








Vegetable's Magic (Little Stories OST)


One more track I composed and produced for the new story about the benefits of eating vegetables in our mobile app for kids and their parents "Little Stories". All the instruments are from VSL - Sync




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


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## Toecutter (Aug 15, 2021)

Petrucci said:


> I've done my new track with a little bit from Synchron Brass - hope it doesn't do disservice) I love the solo instruments, will use them a ton. With Ensembles, I was totally all right with BBO Brass but a lot of new content is so much welcome!
> 
> Listen to Vegetable's Magic (Little Stories OST) by Artem Akmulin on #SoundCloud
> 
> ...


Eating vegetables never sounded so good XD


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## Petrucci (Aug 15, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Eating vegetables never sounded so good XD


 Ahaha, thanks, I've tried my best!))))


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## muziksculp (Aug 27, 2021)




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## Casiquire (Aug 27, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Eating vegetables never sounded so good XD


This is why we need more lengths of potatos


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Aug 29, 2021)

@Ben I have some basic questions not only on Synchron Brass, but also Elite Strings.

Do these libraries still have performance trills integrated into the legatos?
I know you recorded performance-based articulations, but do the shorts have performance repetitions built in? Or are these "only" shorts without connection?
I'm asking, because it's mentioned nowhere. Back then with Synchron Strings I these articulations / features were explicitly named. Hope you haven't kicked them out with the newer libraries. This has always been the best thing about the VI series.


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## Ben (Aug 29, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Do these libraries still have performance trills integrated into the legatos?


Fast Legato, yes.



Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I know you recorded performance-based articulations, but do the shorts have performance repetitions built in? Or are these "only" shorts without connection?


Yes, the Shorts have something similar to the "performance repetitions" build-in.
Bold plays the first note during a run, Agile plays the first note only at the start of a phrase and then continues with the repetitions. (Note: When playing chords in one instance you should always select "Bold").



Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Hope you haven't kicked them out with the newer libraries. This has always been the best thing about the VI series.


We have not kicked them out, but made them easier to use, so you don;t have to thing about them anymore and you need far less keyswitches.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Aug 29, 2021)

Ben said:


> Fast Legato, yes.
> 
> 
> Yes, the Shorts have something similar to the "performance repetitions" build-in.
> ...


Awesome! Thanks. I think you should explain this a little in the manuals, especially the hint with the chords. And what the different shorts are for (or what situation they are suitable for).


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Aug 29, 2021)

Found another mockup with Synchron Brass (and VSL Special Edition). I really like it.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 2, 2021)

I know I asked this before, but could someone be so nice and post some more solo horn demos which focus on the lower dynamics. Just a short cue. In every walkthrough Velocity XF is set very high.

In particular I have in mind: Leia's Theme, Yoda's Theme, Force Theme

I'm very interested in how these will sound.


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## Batuer (Sep 2, 2021)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Found another mockup with Synchron Brass (and VSL Special Edition). I really like it.



Glad you like it. I made it last week.



Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I know I asked this before, but could someone be so nice and post some more solo horn demos which focus on the lower dynamics. Just a short cue. In every walkthrough Velocity XF is set very high.


I just export 2 short pieces of Horn 1 and Horn 2 solo with VelXF control under 100 and a little Timbre Adjust. Hope that would be some help.

Horn1(Classic Decca Tree)

View attachment Horn1(Classic Decca Tree).mp3


Horn2(Classic Decca Tree)

View attachment Horn2(Classic Decca Tree).mp3


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## Casiquire (Sep 2, 2021)

Batuer said:


> Glad you like it. I made it last week.
> 
> 
> I just export 2 short pieces of Horn 1 and Horn 2 solo with VelXF control under 100 and a little Timbre Adjust. Hope that would be some help.
> ...


Nice! Is horn 2 growling? That's unexpected but i like grit in my performances


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## Batuer (Sep 2, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Nice! Is horn 2 growling? That's unexpected but i like grit in my performances


It's just near the higher dynamic layer but under control by VelXF and Timbre Adjust.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 2, 2021)

Batuer said:


> Glad you like it. I made it last week.
> 
> 
> I just export 2 short pieces of Horn 1 and Horn 2 solo with VelXF control under 100 and a little Timbre Adjust. Hope that would be some help.
> ...


Yes, I was impressed by your older demo of this piece, too. Dimension Brass is really great. But one can definitely hear the difference with the new brass.


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## ptram (Sep 4, 2021)

When owning the Synchron Brass, does one still need Dimension Brass? Synchron Brass contains, for example, only two horns and a single tenor trombone. Can the missing instruments in the respective section be convincingly replaced by duplicated instruments, or is a true set of individual section instruments still needed?

Paolo


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## hayvel (Mar 29, 2022)

ptram said:


> When owning the Synchron Brass, does one still need Dimension Brass? Synchron Brass contains, for example, only two horns and a single tenor trombone. Can the missing instruments in the respective section be convincingly replaced by duplicated instruments, or is a true set of individual section instruments still needed?
> 
> Paolo


I have the exact same thoughts and questions as you did. I am torn between Synchron Brass Std. and Synchronized Dimension Brass I. Would you mind sharing what you went for and if you are happy with your choice?

Just for context - I currently use Synchronized Woodwinds, Dimension Strings I, Synchron Strings Pro, BBO Percussion and want to complete the VSL orchestra with one of the Brass libraries while the sale is on.

I like the tone of Synchron Brass from the demos and reviews, while there is almost no content for Dimension Brass, so it is hard to compare both "from the outside". Can Synchron Brass actually be used sort of like Dimension Brass with the soloists and some tweaking? Is there anything else to know to make a proper decision (other than the general paradigm behind the libraries and the differences between silent and Synchron Stage).

Thanks in advance.


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## ptram (Mar 29, 2022)

hayvel said:


> I have the exact same thoughts and questions as you did. I am torn between Synchron Brass Std. and Synchronized Dimension Brass I. Would you mind sharing what you went for and if you are happy with your choice?


I already had Dimension Brass at the time, and then also purchased Synchron Brass. They are different, and at the moment I've not yet decided if one is 'better' than the other one. In the meantime, I use both.

As for the missing additional instruments (Horns 3-4, Tenor Trombone 2) I feel that a different mic mix and panning can be convincing. I've not found phasing issues due to the same core instrument being duplicated.

As for context of use, I still work with the old and new series in different situations. Therefore, Dimension Brass are my first choice when using the old series, and Synchron Brass when using the new series. But even the Classic VI Brass find their way in a Synchron project, thanks to the excellent integration granted by MIR.

Paolo


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## hayvel (Mar 29, 2022)

ptram said:


> I already had Dimension Brass at the time, and then also purchased Synchron Brass. They are different, and at the moment I've not yet decided if one is 'better' than the other one. In the meantime, I use both.
> 
> As for the missing additional instruments (Horns 3-4, Tenor Trombone 2) I feel that a different mic mix and panning can be convincing. I've not found phasing issue due to the same core instrument being duplicated.
> 
> ...


Great, that was already helpful. Thank you for taking the time. It sounds like they are on par but, as expected, serve different needs. Knowing that the solo instruments can, to a degree, be combined to a convincing section is the key information to me. 

I guess I am leaning towards Synchron Brass then, as it probably does all I am looking for at the moment, sounds great and overall just has the edge regarding quantity of content. Also, it is the shiny new thing! 🙃 I think I will go with that and keep Dimension Brass on my list for possible future additions.


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## muziksculp (Apr 14, 2022)




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