# Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2 vs. alternatives...



## Zhao Shen (Jul 10, 2020)

Hey guys, considering I've been composing for years, maybe it's a surprise that I have done 0% of it on a MIDI keyboard (I draw my parts in by hands and have no piano/keyboard skills). However, I'm looking to change that now.

I was looking for a keyboard that's excellent for composition but also suitable for developing proper piano/keyboard technique. NI's Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2 is pretty high on my list partially due to the guide lights, which I feel like would be useful for recognizing the playable keys and weird keyswitch zones in many Kontakt libraries. However, I've heard numerous things about the keys being sluggish, making soft chords and quick rhythms more difficult to play, and am unsure if that detracts from its value, especially for a beginner to piano.

Curious to hear your thoughts on the S88 Mk2 and its alternatives.


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## HeliaVox (Jul 11, 2020)

If you’re not a piano player, you might be fine with the S88. I’m a piano player and I’m fine with the S88. Others aren’t ok with it. Keybed feel is a personal thing. I know we’re in a pandemic, but if you can’t go to a dealer and try it, just make sure whoever you buy it from has a good return policy.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jul 11, 2020)

As you know, of you want an 88 key keyboard with NKS light guides there are only two that are sold: S88 MkI and S88 MkII. For me it was easy, because I had an S49 and loved all the NKS features. 

When I first played my S88 I was a little disappointed with the way it played, but after I adjusted the velocity within Komplete Kontrol I was fine. This is typical for MIDI keyboards--the "feel" is kind of an illusion that can be tricked out with a different velocity setting. If people critique the action, I would ask how much setting up they've done. You can't just try it out in a store. 

If you want to play piano, there are additional adjustments you can make in most piano virtual instruments (Keyscape, KeySuite, ArtVista, etc). You can really get it pretty close to the way you want. 
I don't think that any piano-style MIDI controller is the ultimate tool for recording each and every one of the countless virtual instruments that exist. Some of us supplement with wind controllers, guitar MIDI, drum pads, MPE devices, slider controllers, etc. 

Based on where you're coming from, I highly recommend the S88 MKII, particularly if you work with one of the DAWs it is well integrated with, like Cubase and Logic.


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## charlieclouser (Jul 11, 2020)

Don't forget that the light guide LEDs above the keys ONLY work when you instantiate plugins inside Komplete Kontrol, which is an NI plugin that acts as a "shell" into which you load other plugins like Kontakt, Massive, or any other "NKS compatible" synth or fx plugin. 

If you just load up Kontakt by itself as normal, the light guide LEDs do not indicate the colors shown in the Kontakt user interface.

That's a deal breaker for me, as tempting as the LEDs are.


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## jononotbono (Jul 11, 2020)

charlieclouser said:


> Don't forget that the light guide LEDs above the keys ONLY work when you instantiate plugins inside Komplete Kontrol, which is an NI plugin that acts as a "shell" into which you load other plugins like Kontakt, Massive, or any other "NKS compatible" synth or fx plugin.
> 
> If you just load up Kontakt by itself as normal, the light guide LEDs do not indicate the colors shown in the Kontakt user interface.
> 
> That's a deal breaker for me, as tempting as the LEDs are.



Couldn't say it better. Talk about a NI being the biggest tease. Along comes a keyboard with a light system to show you where all your weird drum hits are, playable ranges, key switches, etc and then you realise you have to use Kontrol. I can't stand Kontrol. I just want it to work with Kontakt. Having kontrol built into Kontakt would be good. And when I say built into Kontakt, I don't mean the GUI changing and having to be limited like Kontrol is in comparison. I just mean, I want the Lightguide to reflect what is show in the Kontakt keyboard. I was so bummed out about this when it got released and since using one for a while at the studio I work at, I still look at it every time thinking, "You could be so much more. Shame on you".

It also doesn't work with instruments that are hosted in VEPro so if you use VEPro, and you buy one of these, then it's suddenly a very expensive controller that's missing the main point of buying one.

Shame. I really want one but I'm just back to circling round all the other choices that don't blow my skirt up either.


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## Thundercat (Jul 11, 2020)

charlieclouser said:


> Don't forget that the light guide LEDs above the keys ONLY work when you instantiate plugins inside Komplete Kontrol, which is an NI plugin that acts as a "shell" into which you load other plugins like Kontakt, Massive, or any other "NKS compatible" synth or fx plugin.
> 
> If you just load up Kontakt by itself as normal, the light guide LEDs do not indicate the colors shown in the Kontakt user interface.
> 
> That's a deal breaker for me, as tempting as the LEDs are.


Very good point. I have the S88 MK2 and even with libraries that are NKS, I find myself often just loading the KONTAKT version instead, because I find KONTAKT easier to navigate and use than KOMPLETE KONTROL. It's really silly they have two different softwares so similar. IMO they should just make KONTAKT work with NKS and be done with it.

Oh and when, oh when, will we actually be able to resize the KONTAKT interface?!


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## Thundercat (Jul 11, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Couldn't say it better. Talk about a NI being the biggest tease. Along comes a keyboard with a light system to show you where all your weird drum hits are, playable ranges, key switches, etc and then you realise you have to use Kontrol. I can't stand Kontrol. I just want it to work with Kontakt. Having kontrol built into Kontakt would be good. And when I say built into Kontakt, I don't mean the GUI changing and having to be limited like Kontrol is in comparison. I just mean, I want the Lightguide to reflect what is show in the Kontakt keyboard. I was so bummed out about this when it got released and since using one for a while at the studio I work at, I still look at it every time thinking, "You could be so much more. Shame on you".
> 
> It also doesn't work with instruments that are hosted in VEPro so if you use VEPro, and you buy one of these, then it's suddenly a very expensive controller that's missing the main point of buying one.
> 
> Shame. I really want one but I'm just back to circling round all the other choices that don't blow my skirt up either.


Oops I hadn't read your post before I made my post. Thanks, agreed!


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## jononotbono (Jul 11, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Oops I hadn't read your post before I made my post. Thanks, agreed!



No worries man. I've used both mk1 and mk2 and I definitely prefer the key bed with the mk2. It also has Mod and pitch wheel which is great... but then there's a ribbon controller underneath the wheels which means your wrist constantly touches that (well my wrist does). Instead, it would have been wonderful to have that above the wheels because it's a great little creative device. Doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things though because it's all about that light guide!


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## jbuhler (Jul 11, 2020)

You can make your own presets that set the light guide and knob mapping to the particular library you are using. You have to manually change the preset when you change the library, but it is a way of getting the lights and knob mapping without using Kontrol. I also dislike Kontrol and only use it to make these presets.


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## jononotbono (Jul 11, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> You can make your own presets that set the light guide and knob mapping to the particular library you are using. You have to manually change the preset when you change the library, but it is a way of getting the lights and knob mapping without using Kontrol. I also dislike Kontrol and only use it to make these presets.



That sounds like a lot of fanny fuck arsing about. Unless of course you have 1 library. And let's face it, who round these parts can even count that low?


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## jbuhler (Jul 11, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> That sounds like a lot of fanny fuck arsing about. Unless of course you have 1 library. And let's face it, who round these parts can even count that low?


Many libraries are laid out very similarly, so it's not as big a deal as you'd think. So you can have one for Spitfire libraries, for instance, and cover most of their orchestral libraries so long as you don't need to have the playable range mapped by the lights. Similarly most of the Sonokinetic libraries have the same keyboard layout. That said, no, it's not ideal, and truthfully, these days I use the guide lights more for mood lighting.


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## jononotbono (Jul 11, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> and truthfully, these days I use the guide lights more for mood lighting.



I'm glad you're the first to be honest about the best feature of all. Joy comes at a premium. Lighting is everything.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Jul 11, 2020)

Blue LEDs Amazon


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## jononotbono (Jul 11, 2020)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> Blue LEDs Amazon



But that's just "Oh he has some LEDS" cello taped to the desk. If you buy the Kontrol S Keyboard it's more like "Oh wow. That must control a spaceship. Tron shit! This person must write amazing music". Or something.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Jul 11, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> But that's just "Oh he has some LEDS" cello taped to the desk. If you buy the Kontrol S Keyboard it's more like "Oh wow. That must control a spaceship. Tron shit! This person must write amazing music". Or something.


That fully explains my lack of career success. Time to redecorate.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jul 11, 2020)

The Komplete Kontrol software does a handshake with each NKS equipped keyboard. Depending on which keyboard is connected, it works somewhat differently. If you connect two NKS keyboards at the same time, it can only work with one of them. This is not something that can just be "put into Kontakt" The light guides have to be lit up by something and that something is Komplete Kontrol software.

Remember that the light guides also work with many if not most instruments whether they are Kontakt or not. When I loaded Karoryfer Samples' Sforzando library "Hadziha" into KK... the light guides worked. There are also many non-NKS libraries that map all the knobs--like all the ujam libraries (aside from the guitars, which are NKS). But you have to load them into KK or you lose all that added functionality.

NKS has additional features, like pre-mapping all the patches to the controller knobs (although some developers do this a lot better than others) and providing audio samples of each patch, so you can hear them immediately, without loading them. Again, this is in the software. The keyboard is just a vessel for the software and not the other way around. 

I have various Cubase templates with dozens of my favorite instruments loaded up as deactivated instances within Komplete Kontrol. It takes me a few seconds to bring some or all of these instruments into one of my songs ready to go in KK. It's just a click and they are there.

It sucks that KK doesn't work with VSL. But despite this and despite any hassle using the KK shell, it is already big help to my workflow and one I don't want to give up.

Although I totally understand that it isn't for everybody.


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 11, 2020)

not sure if it was mentioned here but one "workaround" for getting the komplete nks lightguides, but with kontakt is to just run kontakt through Komplete kontrol software. You can hide all the extra menus and just run it like a normal instance of kontakt and every instrument will respond correctly. Only issue I've found is that the initial boot up in studio one takes awhile...but in the end its worth it. for any non-supported libraries you can create your own custom light guides.


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## Geoff Grace (Jul 11, 2020)

For those who've rejected the Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2, what keyboard did you settle on?

Best,

Geoff


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## yiph2 (Jul 11, 2020)

I have a Roland A88 mk2, keyboard feels great (as a piano player), and also will have support for MIDI 2.0


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## emilio_n (Jul 12, 2020)

I was really close to buying a Komplete S88 MKII Keyboard but finally I las week I decided another path. Why?

- Too much people talking about the bad quality overall of the keyboard. (Keys that fail with the time, cheap construction...)
- When I tried the action is not very good. I am not a professional pianist but I hate this spongy feeling. (Absolutely personal and I am sure that with time I will be ok more or less with the action.)
- Need to use Komplete Kontrol Software to host all the instruments if I want to take the full functionality of the keyboard.

I love the Lightguide because I use a lot of Kontakt hosted libraries with a lot of weird key switches, but finally, I bet on build quality and mostly on Key action and finally I bought a Roland RD-2000. Of course, is an alternative more expensive and I know that all that I get about Key action and build quiality I lose about Native Instruments ecosystem integration. Maybe I did a wrong move, time will tell...

As a lot of people said in previous threads, you need to decide if the Keybed is something important for you. To compose and play not specific piano tracks and if you are lucky with your unit, I am sure that you will love the NI S88 MKII. Just my 2cents.


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## DovesGoWest (Jul 12, 2020)

Just to add my two cents I took delivery of an S61 a few days ago. Previously I had a Nektar LX61+ and I did try out the GXP88 as well

I love the keybed on the S61 so smooth and responsive and I did tweak the velocity response settings.

You can create MIDI templates that map the buttons knobs etc as well as defining colours and sections in the keybed. The two downsides I have found to this is that you have to manually select the template for the instrument your working with, secondly the knobs are CC absolute with no soft take up

Using komplete control means the buttons knobs are mapped for the instrument/preset along with the light guide IF the developer supports NKS. If they don’t support NKS you can still map knobs buttons but you can NOT alter the light guide. Also using KK means all knobs use soft take over.

So if you want light guide control use MIDI templates, if you want soft take over , auto select etc use KK


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## mickeyl (Jul 12, 2020)

DovesGoWest said:


> Just to add my two cents I took delivery of an S61 a few days ago. Previously I had a Nektar LX61+ and I did try out the GXP88 as well
> 
> I love the keybed on the S61 so smooth and responsive and I did tweak the velocity response settings.



I totally relate to this. It's quite sad that they don't offer the very same keybed with 88 keys.


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## DovesGoWest (Jul 12, 2020)

mickeyl said:


> I totally relate to this. It's quite sad that they don't offer the very same keybed with 88 keys.


Yeah seems their opinion is if you want 88 keys you be a pianist and want hammer action. If I remember m-audio do the opposite with the 88 ketstation, it comes in hammer and non hammer action


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## telecode101 (Jul 12, 2020)

..


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jul 12, 2020)

DovesGoWest said:


> If they don’t support NKS you can still map knobs buttons but you can NOT alter the light guide.



Not true. I map the light guides for all the MIDI templates I create with Komplete Kontrol.

Most recently I created light guide templates for Sine's "Tableau."


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## DovesGoWest (Jul 12, 2020)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Not true. I map the light guides for all the MIDI templates I create with Komplete Kontrol.
> 
> Most recently I created light guide templates for Sine's "Tableau."


Think you need to reread what I wrote, if you create midi templates then yes you can create light guides. But you lose soft take over and have to manually select maps 

if you use KK then you get auto selection and soft take over but you cannot define light guides. The plugin developer has to implement the light guide api for use in Kk


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jul 12, 2020)

DovesGoWest said:


> Think you need to reread what I wrote, if you create midi templates then yes you can create light guides. But you lose soft take over and have to manually select maps
> 
> if you use KK then you get auto selection and soft take over but you cannot define light guides. The plugin developer has to implement the light guide api for use in Kk



You're right. I didn't read your entire post carefully. The upper part shows you know that the light guides can be programmed into user templates.

I just didn't understand what you wrote later on, largely because I have never previously heard the term "soft take over," so it went past me.

Do you mean by "soft takeover" that the lights work in a non-NKS instrument instantiated inside of Komplete Kontrol? (It does with some instruments; it doesn't with others.) My experience is that there are three possibilities:

Automatic Light Guides and no possible user mapping.
The knobs are auto-assigned, but the user can't add light guides.
The user can create their own templates from scratch with light guides and mapping.
But what you wrote I have read several times and I honestly don't know if you are saying the same thing or the opposite.



DovesGoWest said:


> Using komplete control means the buttons knobs are mapped for the instrument/preset along with the light guide IF the developer supports NKS. If they don’t support NKS you can still map knobs buttons but you can NOT alter the light guide. Also using KK means all knobs use soft take over.
> 
> So if you want light guide control use MIDI templates, if you want soft take over , auto select etc use KK


Are we in agreement or is there something about NKS I don't understand? You clearly know what you're talking about with NKS.


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## DovesGoWest (Jul 12, 2020)

TigerTheFrog said:


> You're right. I didn't read your entire post carefully. The upper part shows you know that the light guides can be programmed into user templates.
> 
> I just didn't understand what you wrote later on, largely because I have never previously heard the term "soft take over," so it went past me.
> 
> ...


Ok I will try to explain it, btw soft take over is not related to the light rail.

so in a midi template u have knob 1 mapped to cc01 now no matter which track in your daw you select the value knob 1 will remain static. So if track one has a cc01=25 and track 2 cc01=50 the display for knob 1 won’t reflect this. Now as soon as you touch knob 1 the value for cc01 will go back to 1 and start increasing as you turn it. If soft take over we’re implemented then either when you turn the knob nothing happens until u reach the current cc01 orwhen you turn the knob it starts from whatever the current value is.

now if you use kk to load an instrument you will see that knob 1 always displays is corresponding cc value in the instrument, and when you go to change it it picks up from whatever the current value is


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