# Best software reverb not involving I-Lok



## South Thames (Dec 10, 2020)

Hoping someone can point me in the right direction. I'm scouting for an algorithmic software reverb:

1) Because I don't have a high quality algorithmic reverb
2) Because the I-lok dependency of my Altiverb is just one more thing to get in the way of being portable between studio and laptop

Unfortunately, from what I can see it seems that Lexicon and TC offerings both require I-Loks and/or hardware (and I find the product ranges for these hard to navigate as there seem to be a number of discontinued offering still selling), which I would like to avoid. I'm starting to trial Fab Filter and Vahalla, and whilst I can see them being useful, they don't seem to have the naturalistic 'wow' factor that I associate with Lexicon or TC reverbs.

So, any recommendations?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 10, 2020)

I highly recommend EW Spaces II. It's iLok, but you don't need a dongle, it can be just a machine license.


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## merty (Dec 10, 2020)

2caudio as far as I know doesn't use ilok.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 10, 2020)

FabFilter Pro-R
Verberate 2


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## jcrosby (Dec 10, 2020)

There's tons of options...

Pro-R, Valhalla, Verberate, Neoverb, plus any others mentioned above and a bunch more...

I have all of the ones listed and all are great. I use them pretty evenly. Verberate could use some more love but that's simply a matter of me making myself incorporating it into a template... It's a killer reverb.

I disagree with your opinion of Valhalla... Different strokes for different folks of course, however they're widely used in commercial studios across the world. Interestingly it also did suprisngly well in a blind test SF did a few years back. Jake wound up liking it more than one of his _favorite_ reverbs in one round, and overall they felt it was the _prize package_ of all the reverbs... Hilariously the blind test completely contradicted a previous blog they did where they dumped on VH and pined over the TC. Just suggesting to give their reverbs a fair shake before writing them off.



Linked the video if curious...


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 10, 2020)

South Thames said:


> 2) Because the I-lok dependency of my Altiverb is just one more thing to get in the way of being portable between studio and laptop
> 
> (...)
> 
> So, any recommendations?


Some ilok products come with 2 activations possible, wouldn't that work?

Edit:
So you can use 1 activation on the studio computer and the other activation on your laptop.


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## South Thames (Dec 10, 2020)

> Hilariously the blind test completely contradicted a previous blog they did where they dumped on VH and pined over the VSS3. Just suggesting to give their reverbs a fair shake before writing them off.



Point taken; I've only downloaded the trials for FF and Valhalla in the last few days so definitely need to get a proper feel for them. I guess my early impression was may be they were less naturalistic than what I was hoping for, but admittedly that's a very superficial impression.

Also not familiar with Verberate or ESpaces II so will take a look.



> So you can use 1 activation on the studio computer and the other activation on your laptop.



It would but I'd have to carry the dongle around with me (exactly the sort of thing I'm apt to lose), or a buy a second one. Neither option particularly appeals. It's just a dependency I'd rather not have if I can avoid it.


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## MauroPantin (Dec 10, 2020)

I looove R4 and Nimbus. Pretty much the only things I use now, along with EW Spaces II for IR.


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## jcrosby (Dec 10, 2020)

South Thames said:


> Point taken; I've only downloaded the trials for FF and Valhalla in the last few days so definitely need to get a proper feel for them. I guess my early impression was may be they were less naturalistic than what I was hoping for, but admittedly that's a very superficial impression.
> 
> Also not familiar with Verberate or ESpaces II so will take a look.
> 
> ...


Verberate's definitely worth a demo. And it really is worth listening to the SF video with your eyes closed. You'd be surprised at just how much bias overrides of what you think you hear.

FYI if curious about R4/R2 - Neoverb is built on the R2 Engine. Basically it is the same overall algorithm as Exponential Audio if those were something you were interested in but put of by them being ilok... The one downside is it's a little resource heavy at the moment however I've emailed support about this and they said they'll be optimizing its CPU use soon. (My guess is after they get Apple M1 compatibility sorted..)


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## Noeticus (Dec 10, 2020)

Valhalla.


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## CT (Dec 10, 2020)

If iLok is out, then Valhalla, easily.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 10, 2020)

South Thames said:


> It would but I'd have to carry the dongle around with me (exactly the sort of thing I'm apt to lose), or a buy a second one. Neither option particularly appeals. It's just a dependency I'd rather not have if I can avoid it.


You don’t have to use a dongle for iLok.


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## peladio (Dec 10, 2020)

B2, Aether, Breeze, Arturia Plate..


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## JonS (Dec 10, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> There's tons of options...
> 
> Pro-R, Valhalla, Verberate, Neoverb, plus any others mentioned above and a bunch more...
> 
> ...



Goes to show how good all these verbs are. I love that they did this video!!


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## jcrosby (Dec 10, 2020)

JonS said:


> Goes to show how good all these verbs are. I love that they did this video!!


Yeah, it really does show just how much of a role bias plays in what we think about a plugin.

Hell the McGurk effect proves our ears are completely deceived by what we see. There's a ton of research that found that the visual cortex completely overrides the auditory cortex when someone's asked to perform a task that requires both senses at the same time. Pretty fascinating


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## JonS (Dec 10, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> Yeah, it really does show just how much of a role bias plays in what we think about a plugin.
> 
> Hell the McGurk effect proves our ears are completely deceived by what we see. There's a ton of research that found that the visual cortex completely overrides the auditory cortex when someone's asked to perform a task that requires both senses at the same time. Pretty fascinating


There are so many really good plugins these days not just for reverbs but also eq, compression, limiting, guitar & bass amps, delay, saturation, modulation, etc. No one can really go wrong with any of the choices that are out there, as there are so many great companies: Universal Audio, FabFilter, Plugin Alliance, Waves, Eventide, Softube, Slate Digital, Lexicon, Soundtoys, EastWest, Nugen Audio, LiquidSonics, Exponential Audio, iZotope, UVI, Valhalla DSP, NI, VSL, Sonnox, Apogee, PSP, and others. More and more top pros are moving to ITB rigs, which shows how good these plugins have become.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 10, 2020)

South Thames said:


> Point taken; I've only downloaded the trials for FF and Valhalla in the last few days so definitely need to get a proper feel for them. I guess my early impression was may be they were less naturalistic than what I was hoping for, but admittedly that's a very superficial impression.



I tried really hard to like FF, but found it just didn’t sound natural enough for orchestral music.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 10, 2020)

JonS said:


> Goes to show how good all these verbs are. I love that they did this video!!



It comes down to different tastes and needs IMO.

I love the Valhalla verbs from a design and price standpoint, but I tend to use reverbs to create realistic spaces or enhance them, and I could never make Valhalla verbs do that as well as something like SP2016 or Seventh Heaven.

I find even a “free” reverb like ChromaVerb in Logic is better for putting things in a space than Valhalla Room or Vintage Verb.


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## averystemmler (Dec 10, 2020)

I've accumulated a few thousand dollars of software reverbs, but the 2CAudio ones always pull me back when I venture into something else. Even in blind tests, and even when I think I have something else enabled. For real or "hyper-real" spaces, Breeze 2.5 (with Precedence, on dry sources) takes the cake for me in terms of both workflow and sound, but B2 can get very close sonically and can go way beyond with some of its dual-engine, filter, and oversampling options. At the cost of CPU and a slower workflow (at the moment - there are apparently updates in the works).

It took me a long time to appreciate the design, and most of the presets (expansions included) in all of their plugins are extremely exaggerated for my typical use, but the manual is comprehensive and I've been able to create the best sounding subtle rooms and "hall extenders" I've heard in a software reverb, with a little practice.

They're all completely offline, serial number based activations, and have a very reasonable demo system. For your specific needs, I suggest giving Breeze 2.5 and Precedence a try, but check out the others when you get a chance too.

As a final note, my opinions are based on my listening environment, which are headphones and an alarmingly imperfect room. I've heard them echoed by other, better established people, but still. Take what I say with a grain of salt and give the demos a go.


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## South Thames (Dec 10, 2020)

Many thanks to everyone for the suggestions -- quite a lot of products here I was not previously aware of, so will look them up. 



> You don’t have to use a dongle for iLok.



I'm quite willing to be corrected, but my understanding is that whilst some products can use ILok authentication online, Altiverb and others require the use of the physical dongle/key (whatever you call it).


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## merty (Dec 10, 2020)

South Thames said:


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I made these comparison files a while ago, all hall presets some-what matched by ear (wet/dry+tail) maybe it might help.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 11, 2020)

South Thames said:


> Many thanks to everyone for the suggestions -- quite a lot of products here I was not previously aware of, so will look them up.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm quite willing to be corrected, but my understanding is that whilst some products can use ILok authentication online, Altiverb and others require the use of the physical dongle/key (whatever you call it).



Not with EastWest, I haven't used a physical dongle on my MacBook for years now.


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## Solarsentinel (Dec 11, 2020)

South Thames said:


> Many thanks to everyone for the suggestions -- quite a lot of products here I was not previously aware of, so will look them up.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm quite willing to be corrected, but my understanding is that whilst some products can use ILok authentication online, Altiverb and others require the use of the physical dongle/key (whatever you call it).



There is 3 ways to activate a product with ilok :
- Local
- ilok usb dongle
- cloud with permanent internet connection

Beware when you purchase the plugin you want, some of these not require the 3 ways but 1 or 2 instead or just one.

So for example Eventide plugins, izotope, and few others don't need the cloud or the usb dongle, only the local mode is needed, and you activate 2 lisences, one on your studio Pc and the other on your laptop.

Use the software ilok manager to manage and activate your licenses. And if you want, you can move your licenses on another machine with that software.

I think ilok is pretty cool since they have done the ilok software manager and the local account activation. No dongle needes anymore!


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## averystemmler (Dec 12, 2020)

Solarsentinel said:


> Use the software ilok manager to manage and activate your licenses. And if you want, you can move your licenses on another machine with that software.
> 
> I think ilok is pretty cool since they have done the ilok software manager and the local account activation. No dongle needes anymore!



Do beware though, if you're not already - if something happens to the hardware the licenses are attached to, such that you're unable to deactivate through the license manager, there is no way to recover them. Much like a lost/stolen iLok, you're at the mercy of the developers to replenish your activations. Some devs do have procedures in place for this (usually detailed in their FAQs), but it's something to keep in mind.


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## Pyllia (Jan 2, 2021)

I recently picked up Spaces II and have been really impressed. I don't have a ton of experience... I can only compare it to the last reverb I used, which would have been one of the Waves reverbs that used to be such a big deal 10+ years ago. It certainly blows away the old generation. To my ears, it's great.


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## Russell Anderson (Jan 7, 2021)

In addition to the aforementioned Verberate, 2cAudio reverbs, I’d like to submit:

- VSS3 sounds awesome (corrected below, it’s iLok - unsure of # of concurrent activations)
- Sonsig Rev-A, if it allows for 2 activations or more per serial, also sounds excellent
- The EA reverbs Nimbus and R4, while fantastic-sounding, were recommended already but unfortunately allow only one activation at a time per license (correct me if I’m wrong)


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## AudioLoco (Jan 8, 2021)

Many/most great plugins are on iLok.

The only good enough non iLok reverb I know of is the Valhalla range.
I prefer others, but they are certainly very very good - and cheap.


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## bill5 (Jan 8, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Many/most great plugins are on iLok.


No not really. The responses here have elaborated on examples.

iLok is a joke. Even if I had to use an inferior reverb (and happily I don't, ditto for any other plugin type you can name), I would.


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## AudioLoco (Jan 9, 2021)

bill5 said:


> No not really. The responses here have elaborated on examples.
> 
> iLok is a joke. Even if I had to use an inferior reverb (and happily I don't, ditto for any other plugin type you can name), I would.


Ilok, for a professional user, is the best possible copy protection there is.
Very easy to switch computers, and when you re-install stuff you don't need to authorize anything thorough any long, elaborate, and boring procedure. just put the stick in the computer, done.

If you want to use an inferior product because of this you are welcome to, at your own loss, in my opinion. I am sure you are perfectly happy about your setup and plugins, so we will agree to disagree I guess.


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## AudioLoco (Jan 9, 2021)

Russell Anderson said:


> In addition to the aforementioned Verberate, 2cAudio reverbs, I’d like to submit:
> 
> - VSS3 sounds flat-out awesome (though I can’t promise it’s not iLok/has multiple available activations per license)
> - Sonsig Rev-A, if it allows for 2 activations or more per serial, also sounds excellent
> - The EA reverbs Nimbus and R4, while fantastic-sounding, were recommended already but unfortunately allow only one activation at a time per license (correct me if I’m wrong)


VSS3 is on ilok


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## jcrosby (Jan 9, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Ilok, for a professional user, is the best possible copy protection there is.
> Very easy to switch computers, and when you re-install stuff you don't need to authorize anything thorough any long, elaborate, and boring procedure. just put the stick in the computer, done.
> 
> If you want to use an inferior product because of this you are welcome to, at your own loss, in my opinion. I am sure you are perfectly happy about your setup and plugins, so we will agree to disagree I guess.


Mmm, not sure I'd agree that non-ilok products are inferior in any way (assuming that's what you're implying?) Vahalla, FabFilter, and numerous other top shelf developers have copy protection that lets me clone an old machine to a new one and things work immediately. 1 less step than inserting an ilok...

Do I mind ilok? Not at all. But non-ilok authorization can be amazingly hands off when done thoughtfully... And ilok in no way indicates a developer, or their copy protection is inferior.

How about your virtual instruments? Do all of them use ilok?


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## Russell Anderson (Jan 9, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Do I mind ilok? Not at all. But non-ilok authorization can be amazingly hands off when done thoughtfully... And ilok in no way indicates a developer, or their copy protection is inferior.


This may not be a reply to the sentiment of your comment, exactly, but I do wonder where the widespread dislike of iLok comes from. I understand the sentiment of “you shouldn’t punish your law-abiding/supportive customers”, but iLok is hardly a hindrance except in the case, like with Exponential Audio, where only one activation is allowed at a time. And the iLok transfer fee - I haven’t read to see if any portion of this goes to the plugin developer, but if so, all the merrier.

Given user accounts typically accompany all software purchases, it is hard to imagine running into replacement problems should a drive/dongle fatally malfunction.


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## AudioLoco (Jan 9, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Mmm, not sure I'd agree that non-ilok products are inferior in any way (assuming that's what you're implying?) Vahalla, FabFilter, and numerous other top shelf developers have copy protection that lets me clone an old machine to a new one and things work immediately. 1 less step than inserting an ilok...
> 
> Do I mind ilok? Not at all. But non-ilok authorization can be amazingly hands off when done thoughtfully... And ilok in no way indicates a developer, or their copy protection is inferior.
> 
> How about your virtual instruments? Do all of them use ilok?


I don't avoid plugins that are not on iLok, but prefer the authorization process with iLok most of the times.
There are obviously some great plugins NOT on iLok, saying others are inferior sounding because of a type of authorization process would be completely idiotic on my part, I didn't imply that at all. 

Let's just say that many plugins that I consider essential part of my work are on iLok.
I would never part with those precious tools.
I don't think I am the only one.


BTW Valhalla has NO copy protection at all if I'm not mistaken, and, isn't Fabfilter on iLok?
Sample libraries authorization processes are always very different then VST plugins.


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## AudioLoco (Jan 9, 2021)

Russell Anderson said:


> This may not be a reply to the sentiment of your comment, exactly, but I do wonder where the widespread dislike of iLok comes from.


I don't get it either, it's a godsend ...
Each to their own I guess


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## jcrosby (Jan 9, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> I don't avoid plugins that are not on iLok, but prefer the authorization process with iLok most of the times.
> There are obviously some great plugins NOT on iLok, saying others are inferior sounding because of a type of authorization process would be completely idiotic on my part, I didn't imply that at all.
> 
> Let's just say that many plugins that I consider essential part of my work are on iLok.
> ...


Ah ok! Adn no, FF is a serial number and it's god for life... It's not locked to a machine ID so it can be moved to a new machine, (and moves when cloned). Same with Valhalla... (and yes, they do have protection).. It's a key file that's yours for life, and works on any machine you own with no faffing required... The authorization also sticks if you migrate to a new machine. U-he as well... Authorize once, it moves as you migrate to new machine(s)


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## bill5 (Jan 9, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Ilok, for a professional user, is the best possible copy protection there is.
> Very easy to switch computers, and when you re-install stuff you don't need to authorize anything thorough any long, elaborate, and boring procedure. just put the stick in the computer, done


That's fine, to each their own. I was speaking more to the shortcomings of the company than the dongle or other hoops one is forced to jump through.



> If you want to use an inferior product because of this you are welcome to, at your own loss





> There are obviously some great plugins NOT on iLok, saying others are inferior sounding because of a type of authorization process would be completely idiotic on my part, I didn't imply that at all.


Sure sounded it like it. Glad you clarified. I have plenty of very high-quality plugins which don't require iLok, so no loss on my part. Enjoy!


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