# What Will 64GB of RAM Get Me That 32GB Won't?



## Rory (Aug 6, 2020)

I have 32GB (2x16GB) of RAM ready to install in a 2018 Mac mini, but I'm open to changing this to 64GB (2x32GB) if there's a significant benefit. I'd have to sell the 32GB at a loss, but that's OK if 64GB will make a big difference. Because a mini has only two memory slots, I can't just install 32GB now and add to it later.

The mini is a 6 core i7. My most demanding library, just acquired, is Spitfire's BBC Symphony Orchestra Professional. I use Logic, without other apps running in the background and with dynamic plug-in loading active.

I know that the answer to my question is "It depends". I'd just like to get a better sense of what "it depends" means.

Thanks


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## Rasoul Morteza (Aug 6, 2020)

Well, I personally can't go below 64.

I upgraded my memory amount throughout the years whenever I reached its limit on a particular project.

So the question is, have you ever written something peaking 32GB of memory. If so then go for the 64.

Cheers


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## Kent (Aug 6, 2020)

32 is a solid minimum, but if you want to host a whole modern virtual orchestra—not to mention multiple options per instrument or other instruments (guitars, pianos, etc.)—you’ll quickly find yourself frustrated by the cap.

64 IMO is the minimum for working with a “full ensemble” at once. Anecdotally, many Hollywood composers have templates in the 80s-90s.


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## Rory (Aug 6, 2020)

Rasoul Morteza said:


> So the question is, have you ever written something peaking 32GB of memory. If so then go for the 64.



No, but I have not used a library that is this potentially demanding, nor that involves this many potential tracks.


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## Rasoul Morteza (Aug 6, 2020)

Rory said:


> No, I have not used a library that is this potentially demanding, nor that involves this many potential tracks.


Then I would suggest putting that money towards a better audio interface (unless you have a very good one already) providing excellent ASIO/driver stability.

Often times when you go above 32 GB of memory assuming that you also run a fair amount of plugins, you will be capped by CPU issues (not necessarily bottlenecking) before filling your entire memory.

Cheers


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## Rory (Aug 6, 2020)

Rasoul Morteza said:


> Then I would suggest putting that money towards a better audio interface (unless you have a very good one already) providing excellent ASIO/driver stability.
> 
> Often times when you go above 32 GB of memory assuming that you also run a fair amount of plugins, you will be capped by CPU issues (not necessarily bottlenecking) before filling your entire memory.



Thanks, your second paragraph is interesting. If others here have a 2018 mini/I7/64GB RAM, it would be interesting to know whether they think that the processor will cap the benefit of 64GB of RAM.

I'm using a Sound Devices interface that I have a lot of confidence in. SD is less well-known in the music world, but it's a major player, and highly regarded, in the film production, radio and field recording worlds.


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## babylonwaves (Aug 7, 2020)

Rasoul Morteza said:


> Often times when you go above 32 GB of memory assuming that you also run a fair amount of plugins, you will be capped by CPU issues (not necessarily bottlenecking) before filling your entire memory.



depends. you can have a lot of plug-ins instantiated but that doesn't mean they're all running in parallel. i'd say 30% of my track count is spot sounds which occur one a view times for the duration of the entire project.

rule of thumb: load your project, open activity monitor, and make sure your system has about 20% to breath (that's physical mem minus memory used). when you do so also open e.g. your browser and email client etc first. because realistically you will open those at some point when you work on a project anyway. so those need to be counted towards the total.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 7, 2020)

Be aware also that the Mini's integrated graphics card needs free system memory (I don't know how much) to drive monitors smoothly, so you need some overhead for that.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 7, 2020)

I just checked a recent Logic project of 60-odd tracks (15 sample library instruments and the rest softsynths etc), and my i7 Mini is using 23Gb of RAM overall according to Activity Monitor with no other user applications running, so I'd be nervous about trying to do something with bigger orchestrations if I had only 32Gb.


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## Rory (Aug 7, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Be aware also that the Mini's integrated graphics card needs free system memory (I don't know how much) to drive monitors smoothly, so you need some overhead for that.



I use an external Vega 56 graphics card.


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## Rory (Aug 7, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I just checked a recent Logic project of 60-odd tracks (15 sample library instruments and the rest softsynths etc), and my i7 Mini is using 23Gb of RAM overall according to Activity Monitor with no other user applications running, so I'd be nervous about trying to do something with bigger orchestrations if I had only 32Gb.



Thanks @SupremeFist, that’s really helpful information.


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## Loïc D (Aug 7, 2020)

I only have 16 and can't wait to move to 64. I'll skip 32 for sure.

Many VIs need a lot of memory. The thing is that you cannot really guess how much before actually using it.

Recently I bought Spitfire Studio String and discovered that a single instrument with all articulations and 1 mic takes 2GB of memory (where Chamber String tops at 1.4GB) ! All purged. 
(I don't really know why it takes so much memory, even purged, so I don't really use it much so far).

So, more memory also gives you room for bigger libraries, in addition of all other benefits listed above.

You can actually open your wallet without double thinking about memory limitations. 
Don't thank me :D


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## Rory (Aug 7, 2020)

Loïc D said:


> You can actually open your wallet without double thinking about memory limitations.



There may be some debate about whether that’s a good thing


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## Ivan M. (Aug 7, 2020)

> What Will 64GB of RAM Get Me That 32GB Won't?


More memory. Exactly 32GB more. Precisely 32 gigabytes of lightning fast Double Data Rate Synchronous Dynamic Random-Access memory more. Sorry, I had to


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## Uiroo (Aug 7, 2020)

You can definitely max out 32gb RAM if your orchestral setup is that detailed.
I'm approaching my limit with 32gb but it's not an issue yet.

Assuming RAM gets cheaper over time I'd stick to what you have as long as it works and get 64gb when you actually need it.


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## macmac (Aug 7, 2020)

babylonwaves said:


> depends. you can have a lot of plug-ins instantiated but that doesn't mean they're all running in parallel. i'd say 30% of my track count is spot sounds which occur one a view times for the duration of the entire project.
> 
> rule of thumb: load your project, open activity monitor, and make sure your system has about 20% to breath (that's physical mem minus memory used). when you do so also open e.g. your browser and email client etc first. because realistically you will open those at some point when you work on a project anyway. so those need to be counted towards the total.


That looks similar to my 2018 i7 Mini with my 16GB of RAM. My swap is lower though and often my Memory used is lower as well, never more even with Safari and Mail open. When I ordered the mini my plan was to do 3rd party RAM later...I still might, but I don’t do large orchestral projects and I’m no where near it struggling. I had kicked myself for not just ordering the machine with 32 and being done with it instead of planning for it later, but so far so good.


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## nolotrippen (Aug 7, 2020)

Rory said:


> I have 32GB (2x16GB) of RAM ready to install in a 2018 Mac mini, but I'm open to changing this to 64GB (2x32GB) if there's a significant benefit. I'd have to sell the 32GB at a loss, but that's OK if 64GB will make a big difference. Because a mini has only two memory slots, I can't just install 32GB now and add to it later.
> 
> The mini is a 6 core i7. My most demanding library, just acquired, is Spitfire's BBC Symphony Orchestra Professional. I use Logic, without other apps running in the background and with dynamic plug-in loading active.
> 
> ...




My iMac (last year's model) seems to handle everything better with 64 over 32. Even memory leaks seem to have vanished. It's like high octane over regular.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 7, 2020)

It's pretty simple: a man who can lift 200 lbs lifts 100 lbs more effortlessly than a man who can only lift 100 lbs.


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## Uiroo (Aug 7, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> It's pretty simple: a man who can lift 200 lbs lifts 100 lbs more effortlessly than a man who can only lift 100 lbs.


So even though I never max out my 32gb RAM, can I expect better performance when I have 64gb?


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## Ashermusic (Aug 7, 2020)

Uiroo said:


> So even though I never max out my 32gb RAM, can I expect better performance when I have 64gb?



Yes.


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## Uiroo (Aug 7, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Yes.


Ah, cool, didn't know that. Can you explain to me why? 
Someone said anything about memory leaks, is there something else? 
I'm not that familiar with how RAM works.


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## nolotrippen (Aug 7, 2020)

Uiroo said:


> Ah, cool, didn't know that. Can you explain to me why?
> Someone said anything about memory leaks, is there something else?
> I'm not that familiar with how RAM works.



RAM is fast. Whatever can't load into RAM has to access your hard drive which is much slower. The more your program has to swap between RAM and drive, the slower it is. Mind you, this "slow" is leagues faster than computers just a few years ago, but if you can afford to double your RAM, it's a no-brainer.


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## JamesIV (Aug 7, 2020)

Not to hijack this thread, but I’m about to purchase a new Mac Pro and am wondering if folks ever use more than 128 gig of ram. Would anything over 128 gig be overkill? Or is more than 128 beneficial? Thanks


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## babylonwaves (Aug 7, 2020)

macmac said:


> That looks similar to my 2018 i7 Mini with my 16GB of RAM. My swap is lower though and often my Memory used is lower as well, never more even with Safari and Mail open. When I ordered the mini my plan was to do 3rd party RAM later...I still might, but I don’t do large orchestral projects and I’m no where near it struggling. I had kicked myself for not just ordering the machine with 32 and being done with it instead of planning for it later, but so far so good.



@macmac - oh, sorry. i didn't post those stats for the purpose of showing how it looks on my rig. i was on my laptop and had just random office things open. i just wanted to highlight where to look at.

on my 2008 MacPro I did upgrade from 24 to 64 I believe that changed a lot in terms of how smooth the entire system worked. on my 2013 Mac Pro I went from 64 to 128 and it resulted in the same but not that drastically.

I have to admit, both were before logic introduced dynamic loading of channels/tracks. this has changed a lot to the better, especially if you (like me) work with an unpurged template. the bottom line for me is: if you're close to hit the ceiling, buy RAM. it's worth it.

this is from a hybrid orchestra suite written in 2018 with unused tracks disabled:


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## Michael Antrum (Aug 8, 2020)

I forget who it was that said;

More RAM won’t make your computer any faster than it already is.

It will just stop it being slower.


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 8, 2020)

128 GB+ in 2020 would be the "I have lots of money to spend on my career because I'm a pro composer, knowing I'm going to use and need all of this RAM in the coming years" level.


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## Rory (Aug 8, 2020)

Thanks everyone for your comments.

If this was 2018, when the price of RAM was double what it is at the moment, I'd go ahead with the 32GB that I have in hand and see how it goes. However, at current prices, buying 64GB won't lead to me living in a bus shelter. Also, I'd rather not install 32GB, only to decide in six months that I need to replace it with 64GB. Installing RAM in a 2018 Mac mini isn't brain surgery, but it's also not my idea of a fun way to spend time.

I do think that the collapse in the price of RAM has led to somewhat of a "just get 64GB" attitude. It's amazing the number of people who, in 2020, are advocating 64GB of RAM for programmes like Photoshop and Lightroom. People sure weren't saying that two years ago 

Thanks again.


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## Rtomproductions (Aug 8, 2020)

The real question is what 256GB will get you that 128GB won't


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## Rory (Aug 8, 2020)

Rtomproductions said:


> The real question is what 256GB will get you that 128GB won't



Only if one trades in a 2018 Mac mini for the new iMac


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## nolotrippen (Aug 10, 2020)

Rtomproductions said:


> The real question is what 256GB will get you that 128GB won't



Chicks, man. The chicks love RAM. Oh, I'm going to get kicked, aren't I?


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## Technostica (Aug 10, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> It's pretty simple: a man who can lift 200 lbs lifts 100 lbs more effortlessly than a man who can only lift 100 lbs.


If you have a 100 guests and 200 towels they don’t get any dryer because you have a 100 unused towels.
If you never use more than say 75% of your current RAM and you double its capacity, then generally you will only benefit if the operating system or audio application software is very badly written.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 10, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Yes.



Howja figure, Professor Jay?

I mean, if you're maxing out your RAM, then sure. But, say, a 16GB session isn't going to run any differently with 32GB or 64GB installed.

That aside, RAM is a resource I'd rather not run out of. If like me you have your basic programs running all the time in addition to your music sessions - meaning software to control your audio interface, email, maybe a browser, Messages, Dropbox, Ring, etc. - and you want to be able to launch other programs like Preview as needed without worrying - then 32GB might not be enough.


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 12, 2020)

My Machine's got 2gb Ram ddr3 1333 mhz pc3-10600 something. Is it ok rather advisable to upgrade it to ddr4 2666 MHz 8 gb pc4-something? I just want to make sure it's REALLY ok & safe.
I just can't find the ddr3 1333 mhz & if I do it's costing more than ddr4 I wonder why? I am looking at Crucial Corsair Kingston Hynix & Samsung.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 12, 2020)

All I can tell you, and yes I tend to max out my available RAM frequently, is that any time I have added RAM, my computer got noticeably more sprightly.


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## MartinH. (Aug 12, 2020)

Uiroo said:


> So even though I never max out my 32gb RAM, can I expect better performance when I have 64gb?


Afaik no. Not unless more RAM leads to higher RAM bandwidth (I'm not up to date what it's called today but it used to be called dual channel or quad channel iirc) or less swapping data to disk. 



Uiroo said:


> Someone said anything about memory leaks, is there something else?


A memory leak is when a program allocates memory for something, then forgets to deallocate it when it's no longer needed. That leads to the program continuously needing more and more memory. When it can't get more, it may crash. That happens sooner if you have less RAM.


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## danster (Aug 12, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> My Machine's got 2gb Ram ddr3 1333 mhz pc3-10600 something. Is it ok rather advisable to upgrade it to ddr4 2666 MHz 8 gb pc4-something? I just want to make sure it's REALLY ok & safe.
> I just can't find the ddr3 1333 mhz & if I do it's costing more than ddr4 I wonder why? I am looking at Crucial Corsair Kingston Hynix & Samsung.


You cannot put ddr4 ram in ddr3 slots as these are physically different.
Putting ddr3 1600 MHz RAM where ddr 1333 MHz is used will theoretically work, but the new RAM will still run at the machine's 1333 MHz.
Price depends on availability. Since older RAM is less available, prices can be higher than new RAM which is available in large amounts.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 12, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> My Machine's got 2gb Ram ddr3 1333 mhz pc3-10600 something. Is it ok rather advisable to upgrade it to ddr4 2666 MHz 8 gb pc4-something? I just want to make sure it's REALLY ok & safe.
> I just can't find the ddr3 1333 mhz & if I do it's costing more than ddr4 I wonder why? I am looking at Crucial Corsair Kingston Hynix & Samsung.


What CPU and OS are you using with that computer? 2gb isn't enough to handle most OS's now. You might be better off saving your money for a new computer.


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## telecode101 (Aug 12, 2020)

..


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## dzilizzi (Aug 12, 2020)

I have a 9th gen i7 and seem to run into CPU problems before I get RAM problems. And? I don't have huge track counts, at least not on a regular basis. It might be different if I did. But I think I would still have the CPU problems first just due to effects plug-ins. This is with both my 32gb RAM and 64gb RAM machines. And why a lot of the big names use external effects to pass the load.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 12, 2020)

64Gb is worth the extra cost over 32Gb even if you never hit the 32Gb ceiling because you are paying for peace of mind, and not having creeping anxiety as you notice your RAM usage go up into the high 20s and wonder whether you can load another instrument etc. Simply not having to care about RAM has a value.


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## David Kudell (Aug 12, 2020)

How many instruments do you want in your template? I have 128GB of RAM. I could probably do it with 64GB but 32GB would be pretty limiting. But I like to combine a lot of libraries because each one is better at a particular articulation. I generally use 3 different string libs, 3 brass libs, etc.


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## Rory (Aug 12, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> How many instruments do you want in your template? I have 128GB of RAM. I could probably do it with 64GB but 32GB would be pretty limiting. But I like to combine a lot of libraries because each one is better at a particular articulation. I generally use 3 different string libs, 3 brass libs, etc.



If you’re asking the person who started this thread, I’ve already made a decision (post #27)


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 12, 2020)

danster said:


> You cannot put ddr4 ram in ddr3 slots as these are physically different.
> Putting ddr3 1600 MHz RAM where ddr 1333 MHz is used will theoretically work, but the new RAM will still run at the machine's 1333 MHz.
> Price depends on availability. Since older RAM is less available, prices can be higher than new RAM which is available in large amounts.


Thanks for that @danster. I'll go with it.


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 12, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> What CPU and OS are you using with that computer? 2gb isn't enough to handle most OS's now. You might be better off saving your money for a new computer.


I am running Mountain Lion. I have no big libraries. I do but am not using them just because of this. I can't even afford a computer. May be I'll upgrade the ram if available I'll see ask my parents.


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## David Kudell (Aug 12, 2020)

Rory said:


> If you’re asking the person who started this thread, I’ve already made a decision (post #27)



Cool, I did see that but wasn’t sure if you had made a definitive decision. I think you made the right call.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 12, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> I am running Mountain Lion. I have no big libraries. I do but am not using them just because of this. I can't even afford a computer. May be I'll upgrade the ram if available I'll see ask my parents.


I was asking more because if you are on an old computer, you may not be able to upgrade the RAM, especially if the OS is only 32bit. 32bit OS can only look at 4GB of RAM. Any more is useless. You may want to check to see if it is 32 or 64 bit before spending money. 

Mountain Lion can do 64 bit, so it depends on your motherboard as to how much RAM you can add. 

You can make music on your computer. Just not big orchestral pieces or use a lot of effects. When I started out, I worked on worse. It crashed a lot.


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 12, 2020)

Thanks @dzilizzi 

Yea it's 64bit.


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 12, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> When I started out, I worked on worse. It crashed a lot.


Wow! I didn't know that. Thanks.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 12, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> All I can tell you, and yes I tend to max out my available RAM frequently, is that any time I have added RAM, my computer got noticeably more sprightly.



I've found that it makes my music sound phat.


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## Kent (Aug 12, 2020)

Can't go wrong with RAM


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