# There goes my sailing scholarship to Stanford...



## JohnG (Mar 12, 2019)

*Felicity Huffman among dozens charged over admissions fraud at top US schools*
*Scheme helped wealthy Americans buy their children’s way into elite universities including Yale, Georgetown and Stanford*
Jamiles LarteyFirst published on Tue 12 Mar 2019 11.13 EDT

How did the scheme work and who was charged?
US federal prosecutors have charged Hollywood actors Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin, along with almost 50 other people, over a $25m scheme to help wealthy Americans buy their children’s way into elite universities including Yale, Georgetown, Stanford and the University of Southern California.

Huffman appeared in court in Los Angeles on Tuesday afternoon, where a magistrate judge said she could be released on a $250,000 bond. The judge ordered the Desperate Housewives star to restrict her travel to the continental United States. Huffman’s husband, actor William H Macy, attended his wife’s initial court appearance. He has not been charged and authorities have not said why.

[article continues]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...s-georgetown-southern-california-universities


----------



## SchnookyPants (Mar 12, 2019)

And, ahem, did they also threaten the schools to ensure their scores weren't released?


----------



## NYC Composer (Mar 12, 2019)

I'm shocked that rich people would pay to allow their kids to skip the line.

_Shocked_, I tell ya.


----------



## JohnG (Mar 12, 2019)

and I had this great outfit all picked out, too


----------



## Soundhound (Mar 12, 2019)

Live long enough, there’s no telling what you’ll see.



NYC Composer said:


> I'm shocked that rich people would pay to allow their kids to skip the line.
> 
> _Shocked_, I tell ya.


----------



## SchnookyPants (Mar 12, 2019)

JohnG said:


> and I had this great outfit all picked out, too


I'd chip-in to a 'Go-Fund-You' to raise the cost of that outfit, just to see a posted-pic of you modeling it.


----------



## JohnG (Mar 12, 2019)

Well, there's the Cap'n Crunch hat, for starters.


----------



## AllanH (Mar 13, 2019)

this is absolutely amazing. What is really interesting is a point that Alan Dershowitz brought up in an interview: why would you even attempt to get into e.g. Yale of you don't have the academic chops? You'd wash out in no time? Well ... not any more. Today, grades are no longer favored,so if you get in, he more or less implied that you'll graduate. Yikes.


----------



## Soundhound (Mar 13, 2019)

I know plenty of people who went to Yale/Harvard/Penn etc. Some are really smart, some are just entitled brats, these are the ones who generally work the fact that they went to an ivy league school into the first paragraph or two of any conversation. There's even a term for it, dropping the H bomb (in the Cambridge cases)


----------



## NYC Composer (Mar 17, 2019)

Doug-I experienced that twice today. Usually it’s about Columbia (for reasons you know.)


----------



## mikeh-375 (Mar 17, 2019)

Turns out that over here in England our big 2 unis may have to publish reasons for rejections of candidates. Is this down to pushy arrogant parents who can't accept their child is average? Or perhaps perceived snobbery against candidates from working class backgrounds? Hmmmm...It wouldn't surprise me if there is a similar problem to what you have in the States over here.
One thing is for sure..money talks and it needs to given the fees. Thank God I had my education in the 80's when I got a grant with no strings attached.

EDIT...Just read about how applicants where cheating the admissions with fake applications and more...jeez.


----------



## SchnookyPants (Mar 17, 2019)

School of hard knocks, here; i.e. Poison Ivy League.


----------



## mikeh-375 (Mar 17, 2019)

hard knocks down under...don't be silly....


----------



## Michael Antrum (Mar 18, 2019)

I thought this was normally done by making a large donation to the college library extension. It certainly isn't anything new. 

The key is there is a big difference between being intelligent and being educated.

We've got youngsters who have racked up £ 50k worth of debt doing a degree in Gender Studies, or South American Pan Pipe Studies, wondering why the only job they can get is as a Barista. In the UK having a University degree when I was young really meant something.

Now, not so much.


----------



## dflood (Mar 18, 2019)

Why is it that with over 50 people charged, many of them men, the media have singled out only 2 women for public shaming? Also, very little mention of the bribe takers. No excuse for the actions of Huffman and Loughlin, but they should hardly be shouldering all of the public indignation. 

https://www.thisisinsider.com/college-admissions-cheating-scandal-full-list-people-charged-2019-3


----------



## fiestared (Mar 18, 2019)

dflood said:


> Why is it that with over 50 people charged, many of them men, the media have singled out only 2 women for public shaming? Also, very little mention of the bribe takers. No excuse for the actions of Huffman and Loughlin, but they should hardly be shouldering all of the public indignation.
> 
> https://www.thisisinsider.com/college-admissions-cheating-scandal-full-list-people-charged-2019-3


Maybe it's because they're the most famous ? My wife (here in France) knows Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin...


----------



## ka00 (Mar 18, 2019)

fiestared said:


> Maybe it's because they're the most famous ? My wife (here in France) knows Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin...



@dflood Not only are they the most famous, they are the only famous faces involved. Celebrities make headlines. It’s not about gender.


----------



## chimuelo (Mar 18, 2019)

Some folks should never let schooling get in the way of a good education.

I feel sorry for these children, of course they’re spoiled and this is why people have issues with the sheer amount of worthless degrees being sold.

On the bright side, these children will probably now have to go into the real world where mommy and daddy won’t be there to help them. I’m sure they’ll agree with me that failing is a part of success and you’ll have to face the facts, you can’t avoid them.

You know I’ve always liked these actresses, they’re not the celebrities out there telling others what they should do, or being condescending.
I hope they just lose most of their money instead of doing prison time.

Sadly though in these cases, it’s usually the biggest Rat low life scumbag who has the dirt on dozens more people, who will sell them out to reduce his/her prison sentance.


----------



## Soundhound (Mar 18, 2019)

Right, in your neighborhood that's like people in Pompei talking abut Mt Vesuvius. The first person I remember noticing dropping Yale into every paragraph was actually not an entitled brat, she busted her ass and was very smart, just needed to make that known for some reason. On the other hand I had a band with a friend a long time ago and never knew he went to Yale until I was complaining about a paper i had to do (I had dropped out to go on the road with a band and then gone back to finish up). He mentioned he had done a paper on that subject and told me about the class. I'd known him for two years, written songs with him, before he said anything about going to Yale. I copied the paper (have always been a bad person) and got a B- for it at NYU, he'd gotten an A at Yale. Go figure.



NYC Composer said:


> Doug-I experienced that twice today. Usually it’s about Columbia (for reasons you know.)


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 18, 2019)

I kind of feel bad for them, as this sort of thing has been going on for years and nobody said anything. But as @Michael Antrum said, they used to buy a building or something. I guess with all the SAT's and stuff, you can't get your illiterate snowflake, um I mean educationally challenged child into college as easily as you could before. 

Seriously though, I have some nieces and nephews that have decent grades but were basically told to do 2 years of junior college here in California because there were too many applicants for the local state colleges and universities and they didn't have space for all of them. They were able to get in as juniors without any problem and their degree only shows the university. It probably solves the problem of half the students dropping out before the end of the first year.


----------



## JohnG (Mar 18, 2019)

Michael Antrum said:


> We've got youngsters who have racked up £ 50k worth of debt doing a degree in Gender Studies, or South American Pan Pipe Studies



Or worse! Music composition and poetry!

I tell my kids they are not going to advanced studies to make more money, but to enrich their lives. If life is merely a contest to accumulate wealth it's a complete waste.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2019)

John, you and I have discussed this before, but the same kind of racket goes on all the way down with private schools - as far as grade school.

They'll take your application money, and then laugh: "What movie are you in?!"


----------



## chimuelo (Mar 19, 2019)

Michael Antrum said:


> We've got youngsters who have racked up £ 50k worth of debt doing a degree in Gender Studies, or South American Pan Pipe Studies, wondering why the only job they can get is as a Barista. In the UK having a University degree when I was young really meant something.
> Now, not so much.



£ 50k for a degree learning why 5 different restrooms are necessary for the removal of feeces and urine is cheap.

It’s more expensive here @ Harvard where the Accumulation of wealth might not be taught but its definately their goal.

Higher education costs are up 800% over the last 25 years.
No other sector has that steep of a profit margin.

It’s always about the money, even when they say it isn’t.

If I were to go to college again I want to major in women’s studies.
Pretty sure guys can have such degrees.
I don’t understand why women need to learn more about themselves.
But as a man these would be invaluable studies.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2019)

I want to major in Gender Studies at Reed College. Dr. Nira Cain-N'Degeocello, our nation's leading expert, is on the faculty.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 19, 2019)

I always tell kids going to college to get a business degree. No matter what you end up doing in life, it never hurts to have a basic understanding of management, marketing, accounting and finance. Especially if you end up as an artist where you have to set your prices, advertise, etc...

edit - I can spell, but I can't type....


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> I always tell kids going to college to get a business degree. No matter what you end up doing in life, it never hurts to have a basic understanding of management, marketing, accounting and finance. Especially if you end up as an artist where you have to set your prices, advertise, etc...



Not bad advice.

While I'd never want to trade my Berklee education for anything - and the general ed classes were excellent - my advice to myself would be to focus even more on liberal arts in general, because 1. as John basically says, your intellectual development is an important part of who you are; and 2. who knows where the opportunities will be in 15 years.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 19, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Not bad advice.
> 
> While I'd never want to trade my Berklee education for anything - and the general ed classes were excellent - my advice to myself would be to focus even more on liberal arts in general, because 1. as John basically says, your intellectual development is an important part of who you are; and 2. who knows where the opportunities will be in 15 years.


Wait, liberal arts....isn't that a lot of writing? I got an accounting degree so I wouldn't have to write a lot. Turns out my job is mostly writing. Sigh. 

Generally, if you are really good at something and don't mind putting in the work, you can be successful at it. I've heard mixed things about Berklee, but I think a lot of it is either they aren't talented enough and/or they don't want to put the work in, because, you know, music is supposed to be fun and easy.

And? I'm a lifelong learner. I am always studying something. I think it is great to keep learning new things and you never know what will help you in the future. Taking that class on making the perfect cup of coffee may just get you the job...


----------



## Mike Fox (Mar 19, 2019)

Reminds me of Billy Madison.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> I've heard mixed things about Berklee



I've heard mixed things about everything.


----------



## chimuelo (Mar 19, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I want to major in Gender Studies at Reed College. Dr. Nira Cain-N'Degeocello, our nation's leading expert, is on the faculty.



That guy is hilarious. PBS has him on all the time.
He’s funnier than Sasha Cohen.

I like people like him, they know they aren’t liked by a majority of people, but they have their Schtick, and they’re sticking to it.

The more extremes we tolerate on both sides of the spectrum, the bigger the middle class becomes. Top down bottom up, chimuelo style...

Ankyu


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 19, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I've heard mixed things about everything.


LOL! I was thinking of taking some of their online classes, but they are a little pricey for someone who is not doing it for a career. Basically what I heard from students in my research was that if you took advantage of all the networking opportunities provided it was totally worth it. Otherwise, you might as well go to a state school with a good music program for a lot less.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> LOL! I was thinking of taking some of their online classes, but they are a little pricey for someone who is not doing it for a career. Basically what I heard from students in my research was that if you took advantage of all the networking opportunities provided it was totally worth it. Otherwise, you might as well go to a state school with a good music program for a lot less.



Shit. That means I wasted my money.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2019)

Seriously... well, I don't know anything about the online courses. And while networking is important - you only get as far in life as your friends help you get - if that's your reason to go to any college, you have the wrong attitude.

But the main thing is that Berklee is an excellent music college, and what you get there is different from a traditional music program (I went there way before they bought Boston Conservatory). It's an immersive experience.

And when I was there, the academic classes were excellent. The only difference was that there weren't very many of them to choose from, compared to a regular college or university. But a lot of what I learned, especially in the poli sci classes, sticks with me every day.


----------



## D Halgren (Mar 19, 2019)

W went to Yale and got an MBA from Harvard...
Just sayin.

All those bribes and not a single politician, really?

Oh, and I don't think I've ever seen a clearer case of entrapment. He offered them services while working for the FBI. They just took him up on it, cause they had the money to do it.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 19, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Seriously... well, I don't know anything about the online courses. And while networking is important - you only get as far in life as your friends help you get - if that's your reason to go to any college, you have the wrong attitude.
> 
> But the main thing is that Berklee is an excellent music college, and what you get there is different from a traditional music program (I went there way before they bought Boston Conservatory). It's an immersive experience.
> 
> And when I was there, the academic classes were excellent. The only difference was that there weren't very many of them to choose from, compared to a regular college or university. But a lot of what I learned, especially in the poli sci classes, sticks with me every day.


And this is where it comes back to what you are willing to put into it is what you will get out of it. I'm guessing not all of the people I talked to wanted to do the work. And I'm thinking I wouldn't get the immersive experience online, which may have been what they were trying to tell me.


----------



## chimuelo (Mar 19, 2019)

D Halgren said:


> W went to Yale and got an MBA from Harvard...
> Just sayin.
> 
> All those bribes and not a single politician, really?
> ...



Good to know.
I don’t keep up with the latest, Im a week behind unless I DuckDuckGo something of interest. The rat bastard is trying to save his own skin. I hope he goes to jail, even if it’s only a few years.

I know this there’s wire fraud, mail fraud, bribery, etc.
But sending Lori Laughlin to jail will destroy her family and her children.
Right now they are really in bad shape, I’m not an apoligist but at that age suicide seems easier than to face the online mob.

I hope there’s some real dirtbags out there to satisfy the red meat carnivores.
Don’t destroy a family over non violent crimes.


----------



## Soundhound (Mar 19, 2019)

In my early years in advertising it was always the people who had gone to business school, instead of learning the business hands on, who screwed everything up. Without fail. The extent of their assuming they knew everything was matched only by the extent of their screwing everything up because they actually knew nothing.




dzilizzi said:


> I always tell kids going to college to get a business degree. No matter what you end up doing in life, it never hurts to have a basic understanding of management, marketing, accounting and finance. Especially if you end up as an artist where you have to set your prices, advertise, etc...
> 
> edit - I can spell, but I can't type....


----------



## NYC Composer (Mar 19, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> But the main thing is that Berklee is an excellent music college, and what you get there is different from a traditional music program



And to think that while you were communing with the cognoscenti at Berklee, I was attending Holiday Inn University, up and down the Yeast Coast.


----------



## FrontierSoundFX (Mar 19, 2019)

fiestared said:


> Maybe it's because they're the most famous ? My wife (here in France) knows Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin...


I have not seen a full list. A full list might be interesting... or not since we all sort of knew this anyway.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 20, 2019)

Soundhound said:


> In my early years in advertising it was always the people who had gone to business school, instead of learning the business hands on, who screwed everything up. Without fail. The extent of their assuming they knew everything was matched only by the extent of their screwing everything up because they actually knew nothing.


That's a whole other matter. I've had to train just out of college kids. Some are happy to learn anything you will teach them. But there are always those who know it all. They usually don't last too long.


----------



## Quasar (Mar 20, 2019)

The fundamental problem is that the concept of education has devolved into being nothing more than another _commodity_, something to be consumed, to be bought. You _buy_ the _product_ and what you get in return for your purchase is a coupon that can be redeemed later for membership among the economic elite.

That's the ad hype surrounding it, at least. And of course whenever you have a saleable commodity that is perceived to have value, some people are going to beg, borrow, lie, cheat and steal in order to possess it. So nothing about any of this is surprising.

It reminds me of the Dylan line:

_Do what they do to be
Nothing more than something they invest in..._


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> cognoscenti at Berklee



It was about $9K a year then, and that may even have included the summer semester (I forget, but I was able to save a year and a half by going through the summers). The only cogniscendo there was moi.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 20, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> It was about $9K a year then, and that may even have included the summer semester (I forget, but I was able to save a year and a half by going through the summers). The only cogniscendo there was moi.


If it were still that price, it would definitely be worth it.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> If it were still that price, it would definitely be worth it.



Private college is now about $60K a year if you pay retail - which not that many people do, but still.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 20, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Private college is now about $60K a year if you pay retail - which not that many people do, but still.


And then they pay more to bribe someone to get in? I wish I was that rich.....


----------



## Soundhound (Mar 20, 2019)

Absolutely on training kids out of college. But there's also a biz school mafia in advertising, they always promote each other, resulting in some of the most hilarious missteps I've ever seen. 

Things may be different now that business school is so much more common, and the advertising business, like so many, is way more cookie cutter than it used to be. All about counting them short term benjamins. Thinking out of the box scares the crap out of people. 




dzilizzi said:


> That's a whole other matter. I've had to train just out of college kids. Some are happy to learn anything you will teach them. But there are always those who know it all. They usually don't last too long.


----------



## Soundhound (Mar 20, 2019)

It's just ridiculous. When I was in school it was $3k a year, $300 a semester for in state! The high end schools were $5k. It hasn't grown along with inflation, it has tripled or something. I don't know why or how, but somebody somewhere is making a fortune.

People now move to Germany so they can get a great, free education. Here in our primitive, banana republic, reaganite, gilded age nation, college is for the rich. 



Nick Batzdorf said:


> Private college is now about $60K a year if you pay retail - which not that many people do, but still.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 20, 2019)

Soundhound said:


> Absolutely on training kids out of college. But there's also a biz school mafia in advertising, they always promote each other, resulting in some of the most hilarious missteps I've ever seen.
> 
> Things may be different now that business school is so much more common, and the advertising business, like so many, is way more cookie cutter than it used to be. All about counting them short term benjamins. Thinking out of the box scares the crap out of people.


Yeah, I'm in an accounting field, so I think it is different from advertising. Advertising is more art with a dash of business. We are a little more set in what we do. 

Though once in a while I do get to see some really creative accounting....


----------



## Soundhound (Mar 20, 2019)

Creative accounting makes the world go round!  

Advertising is way less creative than it used to be. Used to be hilarious commercials, now it's clicks and data analytics and brand core values. Don't get me wrong, it was always bullish*t, but it was sometimes fun bullsh*t. 





dzilizzi said:


> Yeah, I'm in an accounting field, so I think it is different from advertising. Advertising is more art with a dash of business. We are a little more set in what we do.
> 
> Though once in a while I do get to see some really creative accounting....


----------



## chimuelo (Mar 20, 2019)

My old favorite when I was a kid.
Alka Selzer is so well known now they don’t even advertise anymore.


----------



## NYC Composer (Mar 21, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Yeah, I'm in an accounting field


I was in an accounting field once. We planted, we watered, and when it was time for the harvest, we pulled numbers out of our asses.


----------



## fiestared (Mar 21, 2019)

Soundhound said:


> Creative accounting makes the world go round!
> 
> Advertising is way less creative than it used to be. Used to be hilarious commercials, now it's clicks and data analytics and brand core values. Don't get me wrong, it was always bullish*t, but it was sometimes fun bullsh*t.


Agree, I even remember looking for some ads... they were so funny, especially ads from UK... Now, I keep the remote like a gun, ready to kill the stinking pollution ...


----------



## fiestared (Mar 21, 2019)

chimuelo said:


> My old favorite when I was a kid.
> Alka Selzer is so well known now they don’t even advertise anymore.



Thanks made me laugh


----------

