# Izotope unbelievable...what's happening?



## José Herring

So Izotope is practically giving their stuff away. Which has me actually a little worried. I've invested a bunch in their stuff over the years. Not even sure why other than it just kind of appealed to me. It's practically all I use for mastering. Now they're giving all their stuff away in a major sale for the price of what it usually cost me to upgrade Ozone... Is this the end of the company? Smacks of a "going out of business" sale. 









iZotope Loyalty Deals


View current deals on iZotope products and access savings on audio plug-ins for mixing, mastering, audio restoration, and more.




www.izotope.com


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## jneebz

includes RX9 Advanced??!! Damn just paid almost twice that for the RX9 upgrade. This is a ridiculous deal.


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## Quasar

Izotope has long been playing various shell games with sales in a way that makes it literally impossible to track. But even for them, this one is unusual... There has to be an angle, but I have no idea what it might be...


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## emilio_n

You need to have any RX Advanced previous version or an old everything bundle.
The Everything bundle coming, for instance, from MP4 is 499$

Said that I was tempted several times to go to the everything bundle for 499$. It's a great deal.


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## axb312

I see it for 199$ without owning a previous everything bundle...

How long is this sale on for?


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## emilio_n

You need to have at least this.


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## vitocorleone123

I have RX 9 Std and MPS3 and the everything bundle is $199. That’s less than the advanced upgrade alone. Still more than I think I want to give them, though.

Really the only thing I use anymore is the standalone Ozone and once I awhile RX9 Std


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## José Herring

emilio_n said:


> You need to have any RX Advanced previous version or an old everything bundle.
> The Everything bundle coming, for instance, from MP4 is 499$
> 
> Said that I was tempted several times to go to the everything bundle for 499$. It's a great deal.


Oh, Okay makes a little more sense but still....Quite a deal for those that have RX Advanced.


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## axb312

emilio_n said:


> You need to have at least this.


Right, that does show up in cart. My bad.


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## el-bo

Given how badly aligned the text is in the product list, I thought it might’ve been a fake.

Anyway…The current best deal seems to be the one offered by Native Instruments, as a crossgrade from Komplete. $299 gets the Music Production Suite (Ends in a few days).


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## Jdiggity1

This is a good way for iZotope to see how many of their customers are willing to pay $199 just to get updates to plugins they already bought a year ago.
My guess is they're paving the way for a $199/yr subscription, just like Plugin Alliance (a new business partner of theirs) offers.


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## José Herring

axb312 said:


> Right, that does show up in cart. My bad.


I know. They kind of trick you. Once you put it in the cart it tells you the truth.


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## Justin L. Franks

It allowed me to add it to my cart and go to checkout even though I don't have an earlier Everything Bundle or RX9 Advanced.


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## Quasar

emilio_n said:


> You need to have any RX Advanced previous version or an old everything bundle.
> The Everything bundle coming, for instance, from MP4 is 499$
> 
> Said that I was tempted several times to go to the everything bundle for 499$. It's a great deal.


Is a "Music Production Bundle" the same as a "Post Production Suite"?

I never bought an RX Advanced or an everything bundle, but have Ozone 9 Adv, Neutron 3 Adv, Nector 3 Plus and some other stuff with an MP bundle, and it's letting me add it to the cart for $199. Is there a catch?


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## Markrs

Quasar said:


> Is a "Music Production Bundle" the same as a "Post Production Suite"?
> 
> I never bought an RX Advanced or an everything bundle, but have Ozone 9 Adv, Neutron 3 Adv, Nector 3 Plus and some other stuff with an MP bundle, and it's letting me add it to the cart for $199. Is there a catch?


I have similar plugins with them and it is $499 for me to get the Everything bundle

Just checked again and it is $199


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## Quasar

Justin L. Franks said:


> It allowed me to add it to my cart and go to checkout even though I don't have an earlier Everything Bundle or RX9 Advanced.


Same here.


Markrs said:


> I have similar plugins with them and it is $499 for me to get the Everything bundle


Very strange. I'd like to know what they're doing without the smoke-&-mirrors...


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## Jdiggity1

For what it's worth, I had the Music Production Suite 4 from 2020 and I was able to purchase the everything bundle for $199, but only via Jose's link. It doesn't show up in my account's offers, and the Everything Bundle is still $2499 if I go directly to the store.

Everything Bundle contains this:
- BreakTweaker Expanded
- Iris 2
- Melodyne 5 Essential
- Izotope Music Production Suite 5
- Brainworx - Creative Mixing Set
- RX Post Production Suite 6
- Exponential Audio - Stratus3D + Symphony3D
- Stutter Edit

Oh and to respond to myself from earlier, they already have a $199/yr subscription for the "Music Production Suite Pro". I had no idea.


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## NuNativs

"We're doomed Gulliver"...


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## Quasar

Jdiggity1 said:


> For what it's worth, I had the Music Production Suite 4 from 2020 and I was able to purchase the everything bundle for $199, but only via Jose's link. It doesn't show up in my account's offers, and the Everything Bundle is still $2499 if I go directly to the store.
> 
> Oh and to respond to myself from earlier, they already have a $199/yr subscription for the "Music Production Suite Pro". I had no idea.


I'm in the same boat. MP4 from 2020, and I too can only see the offer from Jose's link. It's not in my "loyalty offers" (which are meaningless) either. Could they take the money and then refuse to activate the products you paid for?


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## Markrs

Use code: FRET10 to get another 10% off


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## Markrs

Same for me itvwas $499 in my loyalty offers but $199 via José's link


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## Quasar

Markrs said:


> Same for me itvwas $499 in my loyalty offers but $199 via José's link


Did you buy it?


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## Markrs

If you got the "Everything Bundle" would you get the 2 future upgrades releasing soon like they promised those getting MPS 5?

To answer my question, you do



> *Plus, get two more major flagship updates to your suite this fall at no additional cost.*


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## Jdiggity1

Markrs said:


> Use code: FRET10 to get another 10% off


Dammit Mark! Why couldn't you have been 10 minutes quicker! 



Quasar said:


> I'm in the same boat. MP4 from 2020, and I too can only see the offer from Jose's link. It's not in my "loyalty offers" (which are meaningless) either. Could they take the money and then refuse to activate the products you paid for?


I have successfully installed and authorized RX9 Advanced. All products are in my product portal.
It would appear that there was no "catch".


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## Markrs

Quasar said:


> Did you buy it?


No, and I am not sure I will. It is a great price, but there isn't must extra I want, plus I already have a ridiculous amount of mixing and mastering plugins. RX 9 advanced is tempting but I have the full Accusonus Noise Reduction Suite that they gave away for free (though no future updates).


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## Giscard Rasquin

José Herring said:


> So Izotope is practically giving their stuff away. Which has me actually a little worried. I've invested a bunch in their stuff over the years. Not even sure why other than it just kind of appealed to me. It's practically all I use for mastering. Now they're giving all their stuff away in a major sale for the price of what it usually cost me to upgrade Ozone... Is this the end of the company? Smacks of a "going out of business" sale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iZotope Loyalty Deals
> 
> 
> View current deals on iZotope products and access savings on audio plug-ins for mixing, mastering, audio restoration, and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.izotope.com


Thanks for that! Just bought it, too good of a deal to pass.
Also includes two updates of flagship products this fall 
I think I didn’t have the products it said you need to have but it worked. 

EDIT: all installed and activated!


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## vitocorleone123

I suspect maybe Ozone 10 and RX 10 in Fall? Hmm. Probably be Vocalsynth or something with my luck. I really do use those two, though the rest is "fluff" I probably wouldn't install. $197 or so with sales tax for basically and RX Advance upgrade I don't use regularly.   

I'll probably take so long to decide the deal with vanish!


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## oboemaroni

So if you're able to buy this then you can install and authorise without any issue? I only have Ozone 8 standard and a few other plugs but looks like I can go to checkout...


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## vitocorleone123

oboemaroni said:


> So if you're able to buy this then you can install and authorise without any issue? I only have Ozone 8 standard and a few other plugs but looks like I can go to checkout...


The sales are non-refundable, and I can't completely waste $200. Seems risky.


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## jamwerks

Ozone 10 undoubtedly just around the corner. I'm hoping for tools getting closer to what Soothe 2 can do, amoug others.


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## Jdiggity1

oboemaroni said:


> So if you're able to buy this then you can install and authorise without any issue? I only have Ozone 8 standard and a few other plugs but looks like I can go to checkout...


Yes. I purchased it earlier and I'm already using the plugins.


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## Technostica

If you are formally eligible, buy it from JRRShop as you will get 15% off with a usual code.


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## GtrString

They are probably cashing in on perpetual licenses before they go subscription only.


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## Technostica

They’ve been doing this for ages, giving ridiculously low crossgrades.


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## badabing

Seems risky, surely the T&Cs would state that you have to have the specified product you are upgrading from, so Izotope could cancel at any point and you'd have no comeback?


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## badabing

Read the terms of sale and it says "We make every attempt to ensure that the products and services offered for sale on the Site are described and represented as accurately and as completely as possible. However, mistakes may occur and if there are errors, we reserve the right to correct and revise.". Not sure whether that means they would revoke authorizations but don't think you'd have much of a leg to stand on if they did.


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## JCold

Thanks for the extra code Markrs, works for me. I'm in the same boat as a few people here where I don't have any Everything Bundles in my account, a couple of pro but otherwise it doesn't show up in my loyalty page. This might just be sloppy web store management where a specific link URL isn't being measured against eligibility. Sorry to be that guy but I'm going for it, it's a crazy deal. If it bombs on the buy button I'll report back, and if they refuse to honour my purchase, well, I'll be wanting my money back, no harm, no foul.


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## badabing

Not sure I will, for me it feels almost like using cracks, okay you're paying something but it's much less than it should be and besides I'd always be concerned that they'd cancel the contract mid-project, so I wouldn't have peace of mind which to me is the main benefit of buying things officially. Each to their own though.


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## Simeon

Thanks @José Herring for the link, just purchased.
I have used iZotope products in my daily workflow since Ozone version 1. They do ask you to login to your iZotope account possibly for some sort of verification but it’s all good.

Also, thanks to @Markrs for the extra 10% code, that helped to offset some of the sales tax 🤓


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## gsilbers

Fransico Partners wants some of that investment dough back 

oh also,,, 

if its free you are the product. 


in this case, we might be transitioning into being the product lol


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## Macrawn

I don't think they are giving it away. They make their money when you upgrade and they sell a lot of software. Once you own Izotope stuff you are more than likely going to want to upgrade it at some point once you start using it. If they can get $200 bucks out of a customer every year or every other year that's a lot of $$$. 

So it's pretty cheap to get started I think and then you know you are going to upgrade it. And they make it worth the upgrade as the software gets better and better. 

They are definitely not giving it away. They are just getting you addicted to their ecosystem and you will be spending $200 bucks with them every year or two and you will be happy to do it. It's like a subscription without a subscription.


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## badabing

JCold said:


> Thanks for the extra code Markrs, works for me. I'm in the same boat as a few people here where I don't have any Everything Bundles in my account, a couple of pro but otherwise it doesn't show up in my loyalty page. This might just be sloppy web store management where a specific link URL isn't being measured against eligibility. Sorry to be that guy but I'm going for it, it's a crazy deal. If it bombs on the buy button I'll report back, and if they refuse to honour my purchase, well, I'll be wanting my money back, no harm, no foul.


It does say that all purchases are non-refundable though. Clearly I'm still on the fence as I'm checking this thread haha!


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## Joël Dollié

Feels almost Illegal.

RX advanced by itself is still shown to be 1200 USD. Nice.

I wonder how smart of a move this actually is. Sort of devalues the products. On the bright side since they did that, it sort of marks the end of 10000$ ''super mega pro'' editing software suites. Just lowers the entry point by a lot.


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## Brasart

To be sure: you guys who bought this bundle without having the required software beforehand, what exactly did you have?

Very interested in this bundle, I use RX7 Standard daily and wouldn't mind a RX9 Advanced upgrade with all the stuff around


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## playz123

Thanks for the code, Mark. At the very last page in the purchase process, Digital River, who are not located in Canada, slapped on a 12% GST and PST tax. So your code basically covered most of the tax. Izotope and their agent have done this before though, so it shouldn’t have been a surprise. Somehow I doubt that tax ever reaches Canada, but maybe I’m just being cynical. 😊 Total cost $200.80….and to update only Ozone 8 to version 9, it would have been $199 plus tax. So this bundle is more than a bargain. Strangely though they are also offering a Mix and Mastering Bundle for $199, BUT it only contains 4 products. Almost bought it, before I discovered this offer.


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## gzapper

Just to confirm, people who don't have the prerequisites listed can still buy this upgrade and get RX9 advanced?

wow


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## cet34f

badabing said:


> Not sure I will, for me it feels almost like using cracks, okay you're paying something but it's much less than it should be and besides I'd always be concerned that they'd cancel the contract mid-project, so I wouldn't have peace of mind which to me is the main benefit of buying things officially. Each to their own though.


I totally agree with you. This is clearly a mistake of poor management of the site.

I have no intention whatsoever of condemning those who buy them. It’s not about the moral issues. But what about logic issues? Since this is a website error (obviously), you don't really have a license for the product. Why paying $200 for a product that is not licensed when you can download it for free?


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## Thundercat

Wow this is exactly what happened with CakeWalk before they sold out to BandCamp - they offered a "lifetime" subscription for $200 and like a fool I paid it. Couple months later it was BandCamp and it was free. Never have I felt so snookered.


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## signalpath

Joël Dollié said:


> I wonder how smart of a move this actually is. Sort of devalues the products.


Indeed.


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## Technostica

Thundercat said:


> Wow this is exactly what happened with CakeWalk before they sold out to BandCamp - they offered a "lifetime" subscription for $200 and like a fool I paid it. Couple months later it was BandCamp and it was free. Never have I felt so snookered.


It's nothing like that at all.


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## Thundercat

Technostica said:


> It's nothing like that at all.


You can be contrary all you want, but to me it's similar. I had no indication the company was going out of business; it was just an offer like this is just an offer. A too-good-to-be-true offer.


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## Technostica

I wish that the OP would amend the first post to make it clear that this is for an Upgrade from a higher tier product.
If you buy at this price when you aren't formally eligible, that is not the same as an actual deal that is available generally. 
If you are formally eligible, as I have stated above, it is cheaper at JRR. 

This is a price I have seen before and inline with other deals that they have had for years now for MPS and to a lesser extent this bundle.
​


José Herring said:


> So Izotope is practically giving their stuff away.


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## Markrs

This is just a glitch deal, where there was meant to be a prerequisite to have prior everything bundle or post-production bundle but was not setup up right. These types of mistakes happen more often than most realise.

If you buy the licences are fully legit, you have paid for it and that payment has been accepted. You have entered and completed a contract. very simple. 

If this software is useful then it is a great deal.


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## Technostica

Thundercat said:


> You can be contrary all you want, but to me it's similar. I had no indication the company was going out of business; it was just an offer like this is just an offer. A too-good-to-be-true offer.


See above, as this specific offer has been run before as have many other killer deals for MPS and the Mix/Master bundle.
The Cakewalk deal was for lifetime, that was the significant part of that deal, which in no way relates to this one.


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## Thundercat

Technostica said:


> See above, as this specific offer has been run before as have many other killer deals for MPS and the Mix/Master bundle.
> The Cakewalk deal was for lifetime, that was the significant part of that deal, which in no way relates to this one.


OK you win, your option is right.

For you 

Agree to disagree shall we like gentlemen?


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## Technostica

Markrs said:


> This is just a glitch deal, where there was meant to be a prerequisite to have prior everything bundle or post-production bundle but was not setup up right. These types of mistakes happen more often than most realise.


Someone has posted a specific link which enables you to get it at this price and omitted to state that it is an Upgrade from a higher tier product.
It's iZotope's fault for not verifying the eligibility via the link, but where does that link come from and should it have been shared?
The fact that the source of the link is unknown and it's not mentioned that it's an upgrade has drawn some people here to dramatically conclude that iZotope are in trouble or "doing a Cakewalk".

If people want to game the system, that is one thing, but let's not write a premature obituary based on a misunderstanding of what is happening here.


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## Markrs

Technostica said:


> Someone has posted a specific link which enables you to get it at this price and omitted to state that it is an Upgrade from a higher tier product.
> It's iZotope's fault for not verifying the eligibility via the link, but where does that link come from and should it have been shared?
> The fact that the source of the link is unknown and it's not mentioned that it's an upgrade has drawn some people here to dramatically conclude that iZotope are in trouble or "doing a Cakewalk".
> 
> If people want to game the system, that is one thing, but let's not write a premature obituary based on a misunderstanding of what is happening here.


it isn't a special link if you look at the URL, it is just a loyalty page, but the requirements behind the "everything bundle" purchase are missing. It is just an error. Nothing wrong with people buying when there is an error.



Code:


https://www.izotope.com/en/shop/paid-loyalty-deals-2.html


Personally I don't have any issues with it ethically as most businesses happily let you pay more when they reduce the price the next day, or release an update, or even you buy a single product but could have got that cheaper via a bundle instead (this is often the case with iZotope).


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## Thundercat

Technostica said:


> Someone has posted a specific link which enables you to get it at this price and omitted to state that it is an Upgrade from a higher tier product.
> It's iZotope's fault for not verifying the eligibility via the link, but where does that link come from and should it have been shared?
> The fact that the source of the link is unknown and it's not mentioned that it's an upgrade has drawn some people here to dramatically conclude that iZotope are in trouble or "doing a Cakewalk".
> 
> If people want to game the system, that is one thing, but let's not write a premature obituary based on a misunderstanding of what is happening here.


I don't think it's "gaming the system" if someone buys a product and installs it and it works. The initial product page says nothing about needing a previous version - this could also be seen as misleading.

I think high and mighty judgments serve no one.

And let's not forget, Izotope has the right/duty to revoke such licenses and can do so at any time, so it's not like they are stuck. They can rescind the licenses for anyone who didn't meet their eligibility requirements.

No one is suffering here.


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## Technostica

Markrs said:


> it isn't a special link if you look at the URL, it is just a loyalty page, but the requirements behind the "everything bundle" purchase are missing. It is just an error. Nothing wrong with people buying when there is an error.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> https://www.izotope.com/en/shop/paid-loyalty-deals-2.html


The full link is this and I have split it over 3 lines so it can be seen as text:

https://wwwizotope.com/en/shop/paid-loyalty-deals-2.html?
fbclid=IwAR2GgyoF1_apUWrPwMC91S3l2Kup5EvhGToOY-xBipT16mGUO-qLfzTDUOQ

No idea what that is, a referral link even?


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## Rudianos

Wow what a steal! Ended up buying everything back in March. They ended up dropping their offer $100 or something from Holidays. Do not regret the purchase - these are epically useful tools... If this offer hack is here do not hesitate to buy. This my total costs over the last year was $700

IMO they will be included in NI Komplete 14 CE ... to some degree anyways.


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## jules

I doubt it's a glitch. Isn't everybody supposed to have RX essential bundle, that was free for ages with any purchase here and there ? From the advertizing : "IZOTOPE EVERYTHING BUNDLE UPGRADE FROM *ANY* EVERYTHING BUNDLE, PPS, OR RX 9 ADVANCED*",* with RX essential falling in the PPS (post production suite) category ?


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## José Herring

Thundercat said:


> Wow this is exactly what happened with CakeWalk before they sold out to BandCamp - they offered a "lifetime" subscription for $200 and like a fool I paid it. Couple months later it was BandCamp and it was free. Never have I felt so snookered.


Obviously something is happening soon. And, they are being a bit coy about it. First they don't make it clear on the sale that you need some expensive version of RX9 to qualify. Then, you put it in the cart and it says you do, only for that not to be true. That's just crazy. Meanwhile on the very same page they have other sales that are more expensive and offer less products. WTF?
It's got to be a going out of business sale of some sort. Or a drastic change to subscription only and they are trying to get as many people hooked as possible.


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## Thundercat

José Herring said:


> Obviously something is happening soon. And, they are being a bit coy about it. First they don't make it clear on the sale that you need some expensive version of RX9 to qualify. Then, you put it in the cart and it says you do, only for that not to be true. That's just crazy. Meanwhile on the very same page they have other sales that are more expensive and offer less products. WTF?
> It's got to be a going out of business sale of some sort. Or a drastic change to subscription only and they are trying to get as many people hooked as possible.


Yeah, that's what I thought - hence my comment. But one member seemed to think this was a ridiculous comparison.

Well I pulled the trigger; I just installed RX9 Advanced and successfully installed it. It does not say trial; it seems to be the full license. I'm in process of installing the others.

While it could be said to be a moral gray area, the other side of it is, I paid for a product that shouldn't have worked, but it did. How is this wrong? And if Izotope can revoke it at any time, then this isn't my issue as a consumer.


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## Marsen

What's going on with their website Loyalty System?
Logged in, I'm getting an loyalty offer to upgrade to Ozone Standard for 95€, though already owning Ozone Advanced (and it's in my purchase history). Wtf?


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## vitocorleone123

I've decided to pass. I just don't use anything from this company enough to warrant even another $200 to them. Some day I'll get Ozone 10 and maybe(!) RX10 Standard. Or not. If they go full sub, I'll just eventually use other tools after a couple years.


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## Markrs

Technostica said:


> The full link is this and I have split it over 3 lines so it can be seen as text:
> 
> https://wwwizotope.com/en/shop/paid-loyalty-deals-2.html?
> fbclid=IwAR2GgyoF1_apUWrPwMC91S3l2Kup5EvhGToOY-xBipT16mGUO-qLfzTDUOQ
> 
> No idea what that is, a referral link even?


The bit after the "?" is just tracking code from where the link came from. You can remove it and the link on the page is still valid.


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## Markrs

Marsen said:


> What's going on with their website Loyalty System?
> Logged in, I'm getting an loyalty offer to upgrade to Ozone Standard for 95€, though already owning Ozone Advanced (and it's in my purchase history). Wtf?


I got that as well. Very strange


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## Markrs

Rudianos said:


> Wow what a steal! Ended up buying everything back in March. They ended up dropping their offer $100 or something from Holidays. Do not regret the purchase - these are epically useful tools... If this offer hack is here do not hesitate to buy. This my total costs over the last year was $700
> 
> IMO they will be included in NI Komplete 14 CE ... to some degree anyways.


That is my instinct as well, though given the basic plugins they have added in from PA, it might not be anything like RX9 Advanced they include, maybe more the Elements suite


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## el-bo

José Herring said:


> Obviously something is happening soon.


Just seems like an error


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## rrichard63

Marsen said:


> What's going on with their website Loyalty System?
> Logged in, I'm getting an loyalty offer to upgrade to Ozone Standard for 95€, though already owning Ozone Advanced (and it's in my purchase history). Wtf?


iZotope has been doing this sort of thing for a long time now. I've never understood it. Maybe their website developer thinks the extra logic required to supress these inappropriate offers isn't worth the trouble.


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## rrichard63

I've been wishing I had the Everything Bundle for a while, because I think it's probably the most economical way to keep everything up to date. But I'm on the fence about this offer because we don't know what the "two major upgrades coming this fall" are. I have everything in the bundle except Neutron 4 and these unknown upgrades. If they turn out to be Ozone 10 and RX 10, then the package is worth $170 to $180 (after a store coupon code) to me. If they turn out to be Nectar 4 and either Ozone 10 or RX 10, then it might be worth that amount. Otherwise, not so much.


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## Frederick

rrichard63 said:


> I've been wishing I had the Everything Bundle for a while, because I think it's probably the most economical way to keep everything up to date. But I'm on the fence about this offer because we don't know what the "two major upgrades coming this fall" are. I have everything in the bundle except Neutron 4 and these unknown upgrades. If they turn out to be Ozone 10 and RX 10, then the package is worth $170 to $180 (after a store coupon code) to me. If they turn out to be Nectar 4 and either Ozone 10 or RX 10, then it might be worth that amount. Otherwise, not so much.


I'm basically in the same situation.

I've been aware of this everything deal for a couple of days, but I'm not sure if I'm going to bite. I'm not sure how much usefull extra functionality I will get for my money. It's still $199 (minus 10% apprently)...

I also read something into that Neutron no longer has a standard and an advanced version. Something big is going to be changed indeed. I didn't think of it becoming part of Komplete 14 UCE, but maybe that will be it. I think the smart thing is probably to just pass.


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## Polkasound

Has anyone else who jumped on the Everything Bundle noticed that none of the third-party plugins (i.e. Brainworx and Exponential Audio) are showing in their product portal?


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## Thundercat

Polkasound said:


> Has anyone else who jumped on the Everything Bundle noticed that none of the third-party plugins (i.e. Brainworx and Exponential Audio) are showing in their product portal?


I'm same. I was just looking for Stratus 3D but haven't found it.


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## Frederick

Thundercat said:


> I'm same. I was just looking for Stratus 3D but haven't found it.


They don't use their product portal for the external tools. You probably have download codes for those. (I don't have the everything bundle myself, just music prod. 4 and post prod. 6.)


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## Dietz

Thundercat said:


> I'm same. I was just looking for Stratus 3D but haven't found it.


Just download, install and enter the iLok-code that you see in your iZotope account.


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## Thundercat

Frederick said:


> They don't use their product portal for the external tools. You probably have download codes for those. (I don't have the everything bundle myself, just music prod. 4 and post prod. 6.)


I can confirm this is correct. Go to your products in your account to access everything...I found the Stratus products there.


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## Simeon

Thundercat said:


> Wow this is exactly what happened with CakeWalk before they sold out to BandCamp - they offered a "lifetime" subscription for $200 and like a fool I paid it. Couple months later it was BandCamp and it was free. Never have I felt so snookered.


Sorry for the off-topic but wanted to clarify,
Cakewalk was owned by Gibson at the time that Gibson offered the "lifetime" upgrade. Shortly after that Gibson went into bankruptcy and killed Cakewalk entirely, and it was unclear what the future would be.

So the intellectual property was in limbo when an unexpected but welcomed turn of events saw Meng the owner of several successful music companies invested in acquiring the Cakewalk assets, launching it under Cakewalk by Bandlab, rehiring some of the existing Cakewalk developers, and staff, and since have continued to develop and improve the platform with monthly, updates, bug fixes and improvements. Here is a little more info here:








BandLab Technologies - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Many want to blame Cakewalk when it was actually Gibson who mismanaged Cakewalk in an eerily similar way when they managed to kill Opcode and Vision back in the day. Fortunately for all of us Cakewalk had a much better outcome.


----------



## Drjay

jules said:


> I doubt it's a glitch. Isn't everybody supposed to have RX essential bundle, that was free for ages with any purchase here and there ? From the advertizing : "IZOTOPE EVERYTHING BUNDLE UPGRADE FROM *ANY* EVERYTHING BUNDLE, PPS, OR RX 9 ADVANCED*",* with RX essential falling in the PPS (post production suite) category ?


Why do you think, RX essential is falling in the PPS category?


----------



## Thundercat

Simeon said:


> Sorry for the off-topic but wanted to clarify,
> Cakewalk was owned by Gibson at the time that Gibson offered the "lifetime" upgrade. Shortly after that Gibson went into bankruptcy and killed Cakewalk entirely, and it was unclear what the future would be.
> 
> So the intellectual property was in limbo when an unexpected but welcomed turn of events saw Meng the owner of several successful music companies invested in acquiring the Cakewalk assets, launching it under Cakewalk by Bandlab, rehiring some of the existing Cakewalk developers, and staff, and since have continued to develop and improve the platform with monthly, updates, bug fixes and improvements. Here is a little more info here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BandLab Technologies - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many want to blame Cakewalk when it was actually Gibson who mismanaged Cakewalk in an eerily similar way when they managed to kill Opcode and Vision back in the day. Fortunately for all of us Cakewalk had a much better outcome.


That's interesting, and helpful. I really trusted CW so I'm happy to know this wasn't their doing.

But must mean Gibson knew the score, so by offering the "lifetime" upgrade they were essentially doing a cash grab...or so it appears to me.

Thanks.

Carry on...


----------



## Rudianos

rrichard63 said:


> I've been wishing I had the Everything Bundle for a while, because I think it's probably the most economical way to keep everything up to date. But I'm on the fence about this offer because we don't know what the "two major upgrades coming this fall" are. I have everything in the bundle except Neutron 4 and these unknown upgrades. If they turn out to be Ozone 10 and RX 10, then the package is worth $170 to $180 (after a store coupon code) to me. If they turn out to be Nectar 4 and either Ozone 10 or RX 10, then it might be worth that amount. Otherwise, not so much.


I have been grandfathered into a crossgrade to the upcoming updates. Citing my recent purchase. They just gave Neutron new one for free and mentioned the new upgrades are covered too.


----------



## wonshu

I've installed it without having any of the prerequisites.

Now Portal is offering to install "Trial" versions. ??

I've written to iZotope to clear this up or possibly refund the money. Until they reply I will not install any trial or anything.

I feel a bit duped.


----------



## AndrewS

I'm in the boat of I don't really need to buy this, but $199 seems like too good of an offer. RX Standard does the job for me and the rest of it I use sparingly. Getting the Exponential Audio surround verbs for dirt cheap is a major selling point though.


----------



## emilio_n

wonshu said:


> I've installed it without having any of the prerequisites.
> 
> Now Portal is offering to install "Trial" versions. ??
> 
> I've written to iZotope to clear this up or possibly refund the money. Until they reply I will not install any trial or anything.
> 
> I feel a bit duped.


You need to add the serial numbers in the Izotope Product Portal.


----------



## Daren Audio

How does Stratus 3D compare to Altiverb or MIR?


----------



## Technostica

wonshu said:


> I've installed it without having any of the prerequisites.
> Now Portal is offering to install "Trial" versions. ??
> I've written to iZotope to clear this up or possibly refund the money. Until they reply I will not install any trial or anything.
> I feel a bit duped.


I contacted the CIA telepathically as you are in breach of the license terms and they have hacked your computer.  

But seriously, that's normal.
When you download and activate it will then show as Authorised.


----------



## Dietz

Daren Audio said:


> How does Stratus 3D compare to Altiverb or MIR?


Stratus is an algorithmic reverb. AltiVerb and MIR rely on convolution. 

... a bit like synths opposed to samplers.


----------



## jules

Drjay said:


> Why do you think, RX essential is falling in the PPS category?


Because RX essential is a suite of plug-ins for post production. De-clic, de-hum and the like.


----------



## kitekrazy

Thundercat said:


> Wow this is exactly what happened with CakeWalk before they sold out to BandCamp - they offered a "lifetime" subscription for $200 and like a fool I paid it. Couple months later it was BandCamp and it was free. Never have I felt so snookered.


 Cakewalk didn't sell out to Bandcamp. Gibson bought them and they ceased development. It was a helluva lot more than a couple months before it became BandCamp. I went for that LT upgrade as well while spending more time with FL Studio. I guess our $200 is now being used to pay for that server where you can still download the old stuff. 


I got into the Izotope good chain when they offered everything which only Izotope back then for $150. Rumor has it that it was a mistake and they decided to roll with it to get more users.

I would not doubt this is another one of their intentional mistakes. They only thing about these mixed bundles is the licensing. Those verbs need an iLok, PA has a 3 machine limit. You can install Izotope on everything.


----------



## kitekrazy

Marsen said:


> What's going on with their website Loyalty System?
> Logged in, I'm getting an loyalty offer to upgrade to Ozone Standard for 95€, though already owning Ozone Advanced (and it's in my purchase history). Wtf?


Their loyalty offers have been messed up like forever.

I'm going to side with the mistake is intentional by Izotope.

With many economies that are inflated I think people think twice about larger amount of money for software when fuel and food prices are high.


----------



## kitekrazy

Thundercat said:


> That's interesting, and helpful. I really trusted CW so I'm happy to know this wasn't their doing.
> 
> But must mean Gibson knew the score, so by offering the "lifetime" upgrade they were essentially doing a cash grab...or so it appears to me.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Carry on...


They were also doing the sub model. From now on if Gibson acquires a software company be sure to seek alternatives immediately.


----------



## kitekrazy

José Herring said:


> Obviously something is happening soon. And, they are being a bit coy about it. First they don't make it clear on the sale that you need some expensive version of RX9 to qualify. Then, you put it in the cart and it says you do, only for that not to be true. That's just crazy. Meanwhile on the very same page they have other sales that are more expensive and offer less products. WTF?
> *It's got to be a going out of business sale of some sort. Or a drastic change to subscription only and they are trying to get as many people hooked as possible.*


 Shouldn't all developers be going out of business by this thought? Izotope already has a sub. Just about every developer does. I guess you miss the daily emails from Waves that have dales every day. What about IK with their group buys?


----------



## NoamL

AndrewS said:


> I'm in the boat of I don't really need to buy this, but $199 seems like too good of an offer. RX Standard does the job for me and the rest of it I use sparingly. Getting the Exponential Audio surround verbs for dirt cheap is a major selling point though.


Same here. If this was the Fabfilter Everything bundle I'd already have leapt on it. There's too many question marks around this one though. Whether it's legit and also whether Izotope is slowly changing over to the Waves business model of constant headaches. Also gotta admit that I don't really like the "AI mixing" approach except for Gullfoss (Master version) where it's very very subtle and it shows me exactly what it's doing... maybe Ozone is like that?


----------



## badabing

I do wonder whether this is a deliberate tactic, the recent Eventide sale "mistake" too.


----------



## Quasar

I don't see any moral gray areas at all, except on the part of developers who dazzle and confuse on purpose out of a perceived belief that it increases profit, which (though I do not know what they're doing here) Izotope has been doing for a long time...

...So I would opine that anyone who wants the deal and can get it through the link has every ethical right to do so. But I am going to pass, because:

1) I do not like convoluted & confusing smoke-&-mirror marketing.

2) Though Izotope has always had a dongle-free offline activation, some of their partners do not, and at any rate I no long trust challenge/response because it can and will be taken away at any time for any reason. Without local control, I would have to trust the moral integrity of a company, and Native Instruments has taught me that I was a naive fool to ever do that.

3) We're seeing more and more of these big players joining forces, creating de facto huge VI corporate conglomerates, and I dislike that.

4) There are a couple of "like to haves" in the bundle, but nothing I truly need, and will look in the future for such tools as made by smaller, independent devs who offer a local license or file key not dependent on a remote server, who just sell their stuff without opaque marketing b.s. and activation crapola.


----------



## Drjay

badabing said:


> I do wonder whether this is a deliberate tactic, the recent Eventide sale "mistake" too.


I am pretty sure, the Eventide glitches have been intentional.
But imo this Izotope glitch is no real mistake. Actually you can often buy upgrade licenses, but can‘t activate them, if you are not eligible. Strange it seems to work in this case. I‘d say is more a problem with their licensing system.


----------



## Braveheart

I upgraded from MPS 4.1 and it's working, all registered my serials on Izotope portal


----------



## sound team apk

NoamL said:


> Same here. If this was the Fabfilter Everything bundle I'd already have leapt on it. There's too many question marks around this one though. Whether it's legit and also whether Izotope is slowly changing over to the Waves business model of constant headaches. Also gotta admit that I don't really like the "AI mixing" approach except for Gullfoss (Master version) where it's very very subtle and it shows me exactly what it's doing... maybe Ozone is like that?


Maybe others who have used it more will correct me, but Ozone does show you what it's doing. It's not mastering in real time with AI as much as creating a custom preset on the fly after listening to a bit of your music. After that it's just an instance with a strip of plugins and settings that you can tweak as much as you like.

I'm still not sure I like it either (or if it's any better than any number of other plugins), but it's more about creating a starting point based on a reference than it is about doing everything magically and automatically.


----------



## vitocorleone123

wonshu said:


> I've installed it without having any of the prerequisites.
> 
> Now Portal is offering to install "Trial" versions. ??
> 
> I've written to iZotope to clear this up or possibly refund the money. Until they reply I will not install any trial or anything.
> 
> I feel a bit duped.


This signals the likely upcoming end to this avenue of purchase - once someone reports it. It's unfortunate that the cause sounds like this person was a little rushed and didn't understand how to activate the products. But maybe they really are just trial versions only for them.


----------



## vitocorleone123

sound team apk said:


> Maybe others who have used it more will correct me, but Ozone does show you what it's doing. It's not mastering in real time with AI as much as creating a custom preset on the fly after listening to a bit of your music. After that it's just an instance with a strip of plugins and settings that you can tweak as much as you like.
> 
> I'm still not sure I like it either (or if it's any better than any number of other plugins), but it's more about creating a starting point based on a reference than it is about doing everything magically and automatically.


Correct. Neutron is closer to real time, but also uses analysis.

I've started using Ozone more as an advisor rather than as the tool to finish a mix in, unless I just can't seem to achieve what it does outside of it using other software. This has been in an effort to slowly move away from izotope in case they go sub only. That said, it's a good advisor!

Tonal Balance 2 is probably the only tool I really use the most (in conjunction with Mastering the Mix Reference).

If I did post-production work, or even worked with recorded raw vocals, this price just for RX9 Advanced would have compelled me.


----------



## Scottyb

Yikes! What a crazy deal! Ugh!


----------



## Scottyb

Looks like they caught the code! So no 10% hehe oh well!


----------



## Nimrod7

- Their loyalty offers are messed up. It is like that for years, there is no sense to look at them at all. They even want money for downgrades.

- Izotope doesn't have in their backend systems the concept of "upgrade", they are always deploying full licenses. So if you go into a third party (or in this case the Izotope website) and get an upgrade, you'll receive a full license for the product.

- They don't care, that's no bad, and people exploit that for years. However if you want to be on the right side, just buy the upgrades you deserve.

- I complained once to their support for their upgrade pricing, and they gave me a 30% coupon! They also have grace periods if you buy something and an upgrade released within a month.

- Certainly the price reductions will have something to do with Soundwide. Plugin Alliance is on the same mood, destroyed all pricing with the $31 subscription (which you can cancel), and even today's sale (any plugin for $30.99 new or old).

- Enjoy it, everything else in the world is way more expensive nowadays!


----------



## Thundercat

wonshu said:


> I've installed it without having any of the prerequisites.
> 
> Now Portal is offering to install "Trial" versions. ??
> 
> I've written to iZotope to clear this up or possibly refund the money. Until they reply I will not install any trial or anything.
> 
> I feel a bit duped.


Don't worry about it - just proceed and install the "trial." Mine said same thing! You just need to install them and then it will let you activate them no problem. It's a bit time consuming, but it works. I just did it today and all I owned was MPS3.1. Worked perfectly.


----------



## ManicMiner

Once in a blue moon Izotope's sales make sense. Too many times of me looking at my loyalty offers and being asked to upgrade from an Advanced version of a plugin I own to a Standard version of the same plugin. I tuned out.
I picked up Stutter Edit 2 three weeks ago for $10. That made sense.
I own MPS 2.x (O8A etc.), which I use and like, but they haven't added enough hugely significant features for me to look at paying for an upgrade $149... $199 etc.


----------



## Thundercat

kitekrazy said:


> Cakewalk didn't sell out to Bandcamp. Gibson bought them and they ceased development. It was a helluva lot more than a couple months before it became BandCamp. I went for that LT upgrade as well while spending more time with FL Studio. I guess our $200 is now being used to pay for that server where you can still download the old stuff.
> 
> 
> I got into the Izotope good chain when they offered everything which only Izotope back then for $150. Rumor has it that it was a mistake and they decided to roll with it to get more users.
> 
> I would not doubt this is another one of their intentional mistakes. They only thing about these mixed bundles is the licensing. Those verbs need an iLok, PA has a 3 machine limit. You can install Izotope on everything.


It doesn't change the fact that I paid for a lifetime sub that was then offered free. I hear you but do you hear me? My feelings are valid, I felt totally ripped off.


----------



## Markrs

Scottyb said:


> Looks like they caught the code! So no 10% hehe oh well!


NERDS10 seems to work


----------



## Technostica

There will be an avalanche of EA 3D reverbs in the trading forum.


----------



## el-bo

Quasar said:


> I don't see any moral gray areas at all, except on the part of developers who dazzle and confuse.


Oh NoEz! Da BiGg EvIl cOrPoRaShUnS! hOw ThEy DaZzEl AnD cOnFoOz!


----------



## Scottyb

Markrs said:


> NERDS10 seems to work


Man you're awesome! Thanks!


----------



## LearningToCompose:)

Not interrested in their products atm and don't have an account with them I think. But I guess you could always ask their customer support if it's intentional or a bug?


----------



## rrichard63

Scottyb said:


> Looks like they caught the code! So no 10% hehe oh well!


Both Audio Deluxe and JRR Shop usually give the same or a better discount. At JRR Shop, the code "forum" often works. At Audio Deluxe, the discount is often applied automatically. If it's not, try "JUNE2022" or similar in other months.


----------



## Nico5

*... **but wait - there is more** less !! *


More moderate discounts, going along with more moderate official prerequisites:









iZotope Deals


View current deals on iZotope products and access savings on audio plug-ins for mixing, mastering, audio restoration, and more.




www.izotope.com




leading to





and





Paid Media Product Owner Deals


View current deals on iZotope products and access savings on audio plug-ins for mixing, mastering, audio restoration, and more.




www.izotope.com




leading to


----------



## Crowe

I've read 6 pages but it's still not clear to me if this will work when you have *no* standard version. I only have the light versions of everything. Has that worked for anyone?


----------



## el-bo

badabing said:


> I do wonder whether this is a deliberate tactic, the recent Eventide sale "mistake" too.


Well, i have an open support ticket, so I just asked


----------



## rrichard63

Markrs said:


> If you got the "Everything Bundle" would you get the 2 future upgrades releasing soon like they promised those getting MPS 5?
> 
> To answer my question, you do "*Plus, get two more major flagship updates to your suite this fall at no additional cost."*



@Markrs, where did you find this quote? I thought I saw the same thing somewhere, but now I can't find it again.


----------



## Scottyb

I have to imagine at this point they know either way. But I might be wrong : )


----------



## Markrs

Crowe said:


> I've read 6 pages but it's still not clear to me if this will work when you have *no* standard version. I only have the light versions of everything. Has that worked for anyone?


Others have bought on Reddit only having a few izotope plugins and it seemed to work for them.


----------



## Markrs

rrichard63 said:


> @Markrs, where did you find this quote? I thought I saw the same thing somewhere, but now I can't find it again.


----------



## rrichard63

Markrs said:


>


Thank you!


----------



## MartinH.

Maybe they're not going "away" soon, but maybe you'll find all the izotope plugins soon as part of the "Native Instruments Soundwide Komplete Ultimate Collectors Edition Plus", and maybe izotope as a separate entity will no longer exist. It takes a while to prepare such a move, so why not use the time to milk the old customerbase a little longer while you can. Once they're part of Komplete, there is not much incentive to market the products at the old prices, and compared to Komplete the current crazy deal might even look like a bad deal. 

Maybe this "are we even supposed to have access to this deal?!" uncertainty is part of the marketing scheme too. They're getting crazy exposure over it and a lot of people seem to love getting a deal that is "so good, you weren't even supposed to have it". I remember the 8dio store glitches were pretty popular too.


----------



## Simeon

wonshu said:


> I've installed it without having any of the prerequisites.
> 
> Now Portal is offering to install "Trial" versions. ??
> 
> I've written to iZotope to clear this up or possibly refund the money. Until they reply I will not install any trial or anything.
> 
> I feel a bit duped.


@wonshu , when you log in to your iZotope user account you should see your purchases and serial numbers listed. In the iZotope portal look towards the upper right corner (looks like a UPC code) and there you can copy and paste your new serial number there to register the product to your account, then they will show up to allow you to install and authorize them.


----------



## Bman70

I have so much of what's in this bundle already, purchased individually, that it comes down to whether the RX advanced is worth $199 (minus possible 10%). I don't really think it is. What am I, a professional de-clicker? 

Still, it's tempting, as all incredibly deep discounts are.


----------



## Technostica

Bman70 said:


> I have so much of what's in this bundle already, purchased individually, that it comes down to whether the RX advanced is worth $199 (minus possible 10%). I don't really think it is. What am I, a professional de-clicker?
> 
> Still, it's tempting, as all incredibly deep discounts are.


With bundles, it is easy to get carried away and think of a notional idea of value.
Better to focus on what one actually will use, as opposed to being blinded by how good the stuff that you very likely won't use is.
RX advanced is very highly regarded, but if it doesn't stop my mouse clicking, it's of little use to me.
Damn, now that I have typed that, I realise just how loud my mouse and keyboard actually are. :(


----------



## cedricm

NoamL said:


> If this was the Fabfilter Everything bundle I'd already have leapt on it.


Dream on


----------



## waltercruz

Bman70 said:


> What am I, a professional de-clicker?


I'm just an amateur de-clicker!

Equally tempted.


----------



## Bron

Just purchased. Everything went through ok.


----------



## NekujaK

Purchased - everything installed and registered fine. But how do I access the installers for the Exponential Audio reverbs?

I already owned a couple of their reverbs, but nothing from Exponential shows up up in my iZotope account, nor in the Portal app. So where does one get the installers?


----------



## Bman70

Technostica said:


> With bundles, it is easy to get carried away and think of a notional idea of value.
> Better to focus on what one actually will use, as opposed to being blinded by how good the stuff that you very likely won't use is.
> RX advanced is very highly regarded, but if it doesn't stop my mouse clicking, it's of little use to me.
> Damn, now that I have typed that, I realise just how loud my mouse and keyboard actually are. :(


That's the thing, my focus is music, not restoring archival footage or something. And mostly I can prevent noise / clicks with a little effort in the studio setup. However, the other day I did a quick unboxing video and there was some hum I removed using RX Elements and Waves Z- or X-noise. But as rarely as this comes up, $200 seems steep. 

But you know a sale is good when you have to talk yourself out of it.


----------



## Alchemedia

In the future...
All Your Base Are Belong To Francisco Partners.


----------



## Daren Audio

NekujaK said:


> Purchased - everything installed and registered fine. But how do I access the installers for the Exponential Audio reverbs?
> 
> I already owned a couple of their reverbs, but nothing from Exponential shows up up in my iZotope account, nor in the Portal app. So where does one get the installers?


Direct downloads to all Exponential Audio products:

https://www.izotope.com/en/products/downloads.html


----------



## Simeon

NekujaK said:


> Purchased - everything installed and registered fine. But how do I access the installers for the Exponential Audio reverbs?
> 
> I already owned a couple of their reverbs, but nothing from Exponential shows up up in my iZotope account, nor in the Portal app. So where does one get the installers?


Check this article:


https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us/articles/6658037224209-Exponential-Audio-Product-Activation



Download the installers here:








Download Free Trials


Try iZotope products for free! Download a free and fully functional 10-day* demo for any iZotope plug-in. (Exponential Audio products are available for 21 days and RX demos are available for 30 days.)




www.izotope.com





Then you need to copy and paste your Exponential Audio product's serial numbers into the iLOK Manager and activate them there.

I hope that helps.


----------



## tc9000

Glitch works great - thanks @José Herring for finding this and thanks @Justin L. Franks for being the first to do what I was tempted, but too timid, to try.
I got it just to have Insight 2  (which retails at 199 USD) and a few extra things hahah.

Now I can play @emptyvessel's superb Entropia as it is meant to be played: with Insight 2 occupying as much of the screen as possible!

Like this:


----------



## Constant K

I was here for the great izotope glitch! I was also lucky with the great eventide glitch of 2020 or whenever that was.

Thanks guys. RX9 advanced and the new Neutron is pretty great value on it's own. Have wanted balance control and insight since forever and never went for the bundles with them before. I had a bunch of stuff on my account but none of the above. 

Possibly the greatest ever deal/glitch? 

Today was a good day to browse VI control. lol.


----------



## Nico5

This is one of those threads that leads me to think a better name/url for this forum might be

*http://www.fomo.bargains (www.fomo.bargains)* (yes, that's a legitimate domain name and it's still available)

or alternatively one of the following (also apparently still available) domains:

*fomo.party
fomo.church
fomo.country
fomo.bingo
fomo.help*





Spoiler: FOMO



*








Definition of FOMO


fear of missing out : fear of not being included in something (such as an interesting or enjoyable activity) that others are experiencing… See the full definition




www.merriam-webster.com




*


----------



## tc9000




----------



## tc9000

Parent edition:


----------



## Technostica

The game is up seemingly.


----------



## Constant K

Technostica said:


> The game is up seemingly.


Seriously? I just did it not an hour ago. Have been browsing while I install.


----------



## davidanthony

Markrs said:


> If you buy the licences are fully legit, you have paid for it and that payment has been accepted. You have entered and completed a contract. very simple.


I think this is a case of deceptive simplicity.

Generally, for a contract to be valid, both parties have to 100% agree on what they're contracting for. Here, Izotope intended this offer to only be made available to purchasers who already owned certain pieces of Izotope software, and indicated this with text during the checkout process. So if a buyer purchased without owning the software, Izotope would be legally within their right to void the sale in most jurisdictions, because the contract was not "you can buy our software" but "you can buy our software provided you already own XYZ", and the buyer failed to uphold their end of the deal.

That's how most laws look at it. Practically, are they going to claw these purchases back, especially after they've gone into accounts/iLoks? I highly doubt it. So the licenses will be legit, but only because it wasn't worth it for Izotope to void the transaction, and not because the purchase gave a user legal claim to them.


----------



## Thundercat

davidanthony said:


> I think this is a case of deceptive simplicity.
> 
> Generally, for a contract to be valid, both parties have to 100% agree on what they're contracting for. Here, Izotope intended this offer to only be made available to purchasers who already owned certain pieces of Izotope software, and indicated this with text during the checkout process. So if a buyer purchased without owning the software, Izotope would be legally within their right to void the sale in most jurisdictions, because the contract was not "you can buy our software" but "you can buy our software provided you already own XYZ", and the buyer failed to uphold their end of the deal.
> 
> That's how most laws look at it. Practically, are they going to claw these purchases back, especially after they've gone into accounts/iLoks? I highly doubt it. So the licenses will be legit, but only because it wasn't worth it for Izotope to void the transaction, and not because the purchase gave a user legal claim to them.


Disagree. The first marketing statement had no conditions on it, which told the user they could buy the software at the price without condition. So which page is right? The one with the condition or the one without? I have both saved as PDF and this is deceptive first and foremost, if not downright misleading.

Secondly, if the buyer purchases and installs it, and Izotope allows it, when they have all the technical know-how to have disabled it completely as most other software manufacturers do, then they have given consent. It can't be both ways.

No proof of previous versions were required - as most software makers stipulate. No waiting period to verify account status or previous ownership.

This can only be seen as deliberate, or of such colossal mishap on the part of Izotope that the user cannot be held responsible.


----------



## Trash Panda

Constant K said:


> Seriously? I just did it not an hour ago. Have been browsing while I install.


The button was changed from buy to Check Eligibility and now leads to your loyalty offer page.


----------



## Brasart

Well I'm glad I bought it 6-8 hours ago, indeed it seems to have been a glitch


----------



## el-bo

Thundercat said:


> This can only be seen as deliberate, or of such colossal mishap on the part of Izotope that the user cannot be held responsible.


Were it deliberate there'd have been no ambiguity. And had José happened upon the Izotope page and bought without fully understanding the qualifying terms, that’s one thing. But after a thread has been started and it was seen to very clearly be a mistake, then anyone who knowingly clicked ahead after seeing the qualifying terms did so knowing they were taking something that hadn’t been offered.

How would that _not_ be their responsibility?


----------



## Alchemedia

Ironic considering iZotope's specialty is glitch removal.


----------



## Thundercat

Brasart said:


> Well I'm glad I bought it 6-8 hours ago, indeed it seems to have been a glitch





el-bo said:


> Were it deliberate there'd have been no ambiguity. And had José happened upon the Izotope page and bought without fully understanding the qualifying terms, that’s one thing. But after a thread has been started and it was seen to very clearly be a mistake, then anyone who knowingly clicked ahead after seeing the qualifying terms did so knowing they were taking something that hadn’t been offered.
> 
> How would that _not_ be their responsibility?


There is no "fault" or moral issue here - Izotope can simply revoke the licenses. They are not without recourse. And they also allowed this to happen, so there is no moral gray area here. Yes it could have been a mistake, but was it?

There was no "proof" it was a mistake - no it was not clear - as many shared perhaps it was a marketing tactic - which it still may have been.

In any case, we'll see what they do going forward.

Mike


----------



## Trash Panda

Just out of curiosity, why are people focusing on the ethics of the consumer’s actions here? If Izotope cares, they can revoke the licenses and issue refunds. If they don’t care, why should others?


----------



## Thundercat

Trash Panda said:


> Just out of curiosity, why are people focusing on the ethics of the consumer’s actions here? If Izotope cares, they can revoke the licenses and issue refunds. If they don’t care, why should others?


My point exactly. And at the end of the day if they don't revoke the licenses, they got money for products that most would not have purchased. I would never have bought the full suite, and did not plan on spending $180 today with them. In fact I was not ever planning on giving them any money again after all the goofiness. Their marketing is crazy; I too have been offered "upgrades" to products for which I already own the advanced version...


----------



## el-bo

Thundercat said:


> There is no "fault" or moral issue here - Izotope can simply revoke the licenses. They are not without recourse. And they also allowed this to happen, so there is no moral gray area here. Yes it could have been a mistake, but was it?
> 
> There was no "proof" it was a mistake - no it was not clear - as many shared perhaps it was a marketing tactic - which it still may have been.
> 
> In any case, we'll see what they do going forward.
> 
> Mike


i guess it depends on how you view morality. To my mind it exists before the issue of consequence. Morality would be what stopped someone from doing something wrong, even if they’d be able to get away with it. In other words, what Izotope are within their rights to do, after the fact, is seperate to the question of morality.

And there needn’t have been proof, either way - Just a willingness to wait to find out if it was intentional or not. The rush to buy seems clearly motivated by the notion of taking advanatge of the mistake, before someone realises. 

But I agree that there’s no grey area, here. Just not for the reasons you think.


----------



## el-bo

Alchemedia said:


> Ironic considering iZotope's specialty is glitch removal.


Trash and Stutter Edit might disagree


----------



## Thundercat

el-bo said:


> i guess it depends on how you view morality. To my mind it exists before the issue of consequence. Morality would be what stopped someone from doing something wrong, even if they’d be able to get away with it. In other words, what Izotope are within their rights to do, after the fact, is seperate to the question of morality.
> 
> And there needn’t have been proof, either way - Just a willingness to wait to find out if it was intentional or not. The rush to buy seems clearly motivated by the notion of taking advanatge of the mistake, before someone realises.
> 
> But I agree that there’s no grey area, here. Just not for the reasons you think.


Respectfully, I don't think you know what I think - but I respect your point of view. I also like your posts and follow you often.

Thank you for sharing. I see it both ways. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong really. 

Best to you,

Mike


----------



## el-bo

Thundercat said:


> In fact I was not ever planning on giving them any money again after all the goofiness.


“Fuck Izotope, and their goofiness!!“
…
…
…

“Oooh, look…A glitch”


----------



## QuiteAlright

el-bo said:


> i guess it depends on how you view morality. To my mind it exists before the issue of consequence. Morality would be what stopped someone from doing something wrong, even if they’d be able to get away with it. In other words, what Izotope are within their rights to do, after the fact, is seperate to the question of morality.


Exactly. Just because one _can _do something, doesn't mean they should. It's still morally wrong to take advantage of a mistake even if it can be undone on their end. 

But out of all the evils in the world, I'd rank people paying $200 for a price glitched bundle pretty low. This seems minor to me, and people are still paying money for it, even if it's supposed to be more valuable than that.


----------



## marius_dm

Morality? Uhm.. what?! This is genius marketing from Izotope, lol. Whoever needed RX 9 Advanced already had it. Whoever thinks they need it now would have never bought it for a higher price. Win win.


----------



## el-bo

Thundercat said:


> Respectfully, I don't think you know what I think - but I respect your point of view. I also like your posts and follow you often.
> 
> Thank you for sharing. I see it both ways. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong really.
> 
> Best to you,
> 
> Mike


Thanks! But perhaps you could explain where the ambiguity lies.


----------



## marius_dm

And can I remind people as we sometimes forget: $200 is quite a lot of money for a lot of people.


----------



## davidanthony

Thundercat said:


> Disagree. The first marketing statement had no conditions on it, which told the user they could buy the software at the price without condition. So which page is right? The one with the condition or the one without? I have both saved as PDF and this is deceptive first and foremost, if not downright misleading.


"Which page is right?" implies a binary condition where only one or the other can be "right", when the reality is _both_ can be correct under the law of contract. There are actually few legal principles designed to be applied in situations like this.

One of them is that contracts are presumed not to include extraneous information. In other words, if something is present in an agreement, then it is assumed that the party meant to put it in there.

Another principle is that you should interpret the individual provisions of a contract in a way that does not directly contradict other provisions in a contract, if such an interpretation exists.

So applying those two principles to this transaction, if at some point during the order process you came across language that described who Izotope intended to be eligible to purchase these products, the law would assume that was a condition of the agreement to purchase that Izotope intended to make part of the transaction, and the fact that it didn't appear on one page but did appear on a subsequent one doesn't mean we should disregard it all together.

I saw such language qualifying the offer after adding the product to my cart, in fairly large text, so I don't think there's any argument that the text didn't exist, or that Izotope never intended for it to apply.



Thundercat said:


> Secondly, if the buyer purchases and installs it, and Izotope allows it, when they have all the technical know-how to have disabled it completely as most other software manufacturers do, then they have given consent.


And according to their EULA (that you have to accept in order to download and install their products), what Izotope giveth, Izotope can taketh away:

*14. License Termination.*_ This Agreement, together with the license rights granted to You herein, shall terminate automatically if You fail to comply with any of its terms. Upon termination, You must immediately cease using and destroy all copies of the Software._



Thundercat said:


> No proof of previous versions were required - as most software makers stipulate. No waiting period to verify account status or previous ownership.


That's now required, more evidence that it was intended all along.



Thundercat said:


> This can only be seen as deliberate, or of such colossal mishap on the part of Izotope that the user cannot be held responsible.


Actually, under the law, the more obvious the error, the less chance you have of a court finding a valid agreement existed, because it should have been more clear to one of the parties that something was off.

In sum, there are pretty much zero legal legs for any purchasers of this deal to stand on. It's just going to be up to Izotope to decide if they want to take the pains of trying to correct the error or not.

(Sorry if this all seems unnecessarily pedantic but I've been a commercial attorney for over a decade and I see so many misstatements about contract law that I can't resist the urge to wade in from time to time.)


----------



## Thundercat

el-bo said:


> Thanks! But perhaps you could explain where the ambiguity lies.


I totally get your point of view - I do, and I see it your way too. I can't defend my position, I did what I did, I feel a little guilty about it - as in methinks the lady doth protest too much. I think my arguments are valid, but they are arguments.

I can't defend it morally. Probably just greed. Anyway thanks.


----------



## Bman70

The hierarchy of winning outcomes on VI-C: 
1. Get premium products for free. 
2. Get premium products for a negligible sum in a legit sale or upgrade. 
3. Get premium products free or for a negligible sum due to a glitch. 
4. Question the morality of people who got products under #3.


----------



## waltercruz

marius_dm said:


> $200 is quite a lot of money for a lot of people.


It's more than my rent


----------



## Braveheart

el-bo said:


> i guess it depends on how you view morality. To my mind it exists before the issue of consequence. Morality would be what stopped someone from doing something wrong, even if they’d be able to get away with it. In other words, what Izotope are within their rights to do, after the fact, is seperate to the question of morality.
> 
> And there needn’t have been proof, either way - Just a willingness to wait to find out if it was intentional or not. The rush to buy seems clearly motivated by the notion of taking advanatge of the mistake, before someone realises.
> 
> But I agree that there’s no grey area, here. Just not for the reasons you think.


If you have seen my movie, you already know where my mortality lies.. Oh, you mean morality


----------



## Karmand

Buy iZotope Community Appreciation Bundle | Sound Editing/Production Software


Elevate your sound with 15 powerful plug-ins for one great price from iZotope, Native Instruments, Plugin Alliance, and Brainworx. Whether you’re just getting started or a seasoned pro, the Soundwide Into Bundle has something for everyone.




www.izotope.com


----------



## Technostica

It’s part of human nature to take advantage of others whilst sometimes even denying that you are doing that or to judge others who you see behaving in that way.
It’s part of a divine nature to not judge or to forgive ourselves and others for behaving in these ways.
For me, this is an opportunity to let go of the judgement of others and self and embrace forgiveness.
Peace to you all.


----------



## Thundercat

davidanthony said:


> "Which page is right?" implies a binary condition where only one or the other can be "right", when the reality is _both_ can be correct under the law of contract. There are actually few legal principles designed to be applied in situations like this.
> 
> One of them is that contracts are presumed not to include extraneous information. In other words, if something is present in an agreement, then it is assumed that the party meant to put it in there.
> 
> Another principle is that you should interpret the individual provisions of a contract in a way that does not directly contradict other provisions in a contract, if such an interpretation exists.
> 
> So applying those two principles to this transaction, if at some point during the order process you came across language that described who Izotope intended to be eligible to purchase these products, the law would assume that was a condition of the agreement to purchase that Izotope intended to make part of the transaction, and the fact that it didn't appear on one page but did appear on a subsequent one doesn't mean we should disregard it all together.
> 
> I saw such language qualifying the offer after adding the product to my cart, in fairly large text, so I don't think there's any argument that the text didn't exist, or that Izotope never intended for it to apply.
> 
> 
> And according to their EULA (that you have to accept in order to download and install their products), what Izotope giveth, Izotope can taketh away:
> 
> *14. License Termination.*_ This Agreement, together with the license rights granted to You herein, shall terminate automatically if You fail to comply with any of its terms. Upon termination, You must immediately cease using and destroy all copies of the Software._
> 
> 
> That's now required, more evidence that it was intended all along.
> 
> 
> Actually, under the law, the more obvious the error, the less chance you have of a court finding a valid agreement existed, because it should have been more clear to one of the parties that something was off.
> 
> In sum, there are pretty much zero legal legs for any purchasers of this deal to stand on. It's just going to be up to Izotope to decide if they want to take the pains of trying to correct the error or not.
> 
> (Sorry if this all seems unnecessarily pedantic but I've been a commercial attorney for over a decade and I see so many misstatements about contract law that I can't resist the urge to wade in from time to time.)


Yes, and I'm not a lawyer, I'm a consumer, and both texts were present. I do not have years of experience in interpreting things and if someone says one thing, and then another, that's misleading.

PERIOD.

And as you rightly point out they can taketh it away digitally.

What is the point in all this? They will do what they will do. Apparently it was a glitch that some people took advantage of, and Izotope will take it away or they won't.


----------



## Thundercat

waltercruz said:


> It's more than my rent


WHERE do you have rent less than $200???


----------



## branshen

Anyone know if this bundle can be split up? I'm interested in only one or two items. Won't really use RX, which seems to be the main draw for people.


----------



## el-bo

marius_dm said:


> And can I remind people as we sometimes forget: $200 is quite a lot of money for a lot of people.


It is, to me. But I’m not sure what your point is.


----------



## Nico5

davidanthony said:


> (Sorry if this all seems unnecessarily pedantic but I've been a commercial attorney for over a decade and I see so many misstatements about contract law that I can't resist the urge to wade in from time to time.)



But doesn't a lot of this stuff involve fine lines between genuine errors, careless negligence and willful negligence or worse?

Isn't that one of the reasons that lots of commercial cases hinge upon discovery of company internal documents, in addition to public or 3rd party evidence?

In the absence of knowing any company internals I have no idea where iZotope falls.

p.s. Not a lawyer myself, but have spent too many delightful hours shoulder to shoulder with contract lawyers (as the IT or software business guy) pouring over software license agreements on the buying as well as the selling side.


----------



## waltercruz

Thundercat said:


> WHERE do you have rent less than $200???


Brazil


----------



## marius_dm

el-bo said:


> It is, to me. But I’m not sure what your point is.


Nevermind then. Izotope is simply pulling a Waves move. Nobody freaks out when Waves is selling a gazillion plugins for $199... Or the whole $29 deal.


----------



## alcorey

I was going to get it after reading how it was being successfully purchased by a lot of you............... BUT I waited too long................ and got this






Check Eligibility gave me $499 as an owner of MP4............................BUT!!!!

I had put it in my cart from an earlier visit and it was still there..............So I went to check out, put in the nerds10 code for 10% off and voila - I was able to still purchase it for $179.10 

There is no guilt here at all. Most of those who were able to purchase for $199 more than likely would NOT have paid $499 for it (clearly, I wouldn't have) so Izotope made a bunch of dollars that they probably would not have @ the $499 level. They have lost nothing.


----------



## davidanthony

Nico5 said:


> But doesn't a lot of this stuff involve fine lines between genuine errors, careless negligence and willful negligence or worse?


These are lines that would be explored if someone were to sue _Izotope, _presumably after Izotope voided the sale (a deception type claim) and/or more likely kept someone's money but offered them less than the Everything Bundle because they didn't have the qualifying products. Unlikely for this to happen.



Nico5 said:


> Isn't that one of the reasons that lots of commercial cases hinge upon discovery of company internal documents, in addition to public or 3rd party evidence?


Where "intent" is a factor in establishing a party's motive or desire to contract/not contract, then discovery is one of the means to figure that out, but again this would only really be relevant if someone sued Izotope on the grounds that this was all some kind of nefarious plot to trap new users with a guerrilla-marketing-fake-glitch-VI-control-astroturfing plot.

As of now this looks like a pretty cut and dried failure w/r/t "meeting of the minds", with Izotope suffering the entirety of the damages, so pretty far away from battling over nuances and taking depositions.


----------



## davidanthony

Thundercat said:


> Yes, and I'm not a lawyer, I'm a consumer, and both texts were present. I do not have years of experience in interpreting things and if someone says one thing, and then another, that's misleading.
> 
> PERIOD.


Well then you were "mislead" into saving thousands of dollars, and you should count your blessings!


----------



## marius_dm

davidanthony said:


> Well then you were "mislead" into saving thousands of dollars, and you should count your blessings!


Is it still 'saving' if I wouldn't have bought any of that otherwise? LOL


----------



## Trash Panda

This is a funny place. I recall not too long ago the gluttony of 8dio glitches was being celebrated with high fives all around. Now it’s all morals and finger wagging.


----------



## Brasart

Pricing errors happen all the time everywhere, you guys don't need to philosophize or make conspiracy theories about it.

Just this week Tekken 2 was priced at 9999$ on the Playstation Store, pretty sure it wasn't a genius masterplan from an evil marketing team there either


----------



## el-bo

Bman70 said:


> The hierarchy of winning outcomes on VI-C:
> 1. Get premium products for free.
> 2. Get premium products for a negligible sum in a legit sale or upgrade.
> 3. Get premium products free or for a negligible sum due to a glitch.
> 4. Question the morality of people who got products under #3.


From what I remember, the question of morality was brought up by someone who bought the package 

But are we not allowed to discuss morality without people feeling judged?


----------



## el-bo

marius_dm said:


> Nevermind then. Izotope is simply pulling a Waves move. Nobody freaks out when Waves is selling a gazillion plugins for $199... Or the whole $29 deal.


They aren't “pulling” anything. There was an error on their site, which they’ve now corrected


----------



## el-bo

Trash Panda said:


> This is a funny place. I recall not too long ago the gluttony of 8dio glitches was being celebrated with high fives all around. Now it’s all morals and finger wagging.


Actually, I spoke out about that also…and got a lot of shit for doing so.


----------



## el-bo

Thundercat said:


> I totally get your point of view - I do, and I see it your way too. I can't defend my position, I did what I did, I feel a little guilty about it - as in methinks the lady doth protest too much. I think my arguments are valid, but they are arguments.
> 
> I can't defend it morally. Probably just greed. Anyway thanks.


The temptation is real


----------



## marius_dm

el-bo said:


> They aren't “pulling” anything. There was an error on their site, which they’ve now corrected


Well not sure how well they've "corrected" it because I can still buy it for $179 (I only have RX9 Standard and MPS4 and some individual updates so not strictly 'eligible'). I'm on the fence about paying the 179 though, doesn't seem to be worth it to me.


----------



## waltercruz

marius_dm said:


> Well not sure how well they've "corrected" it because I can still buy it for $179 (I only have RX9 Standard and MPS4 and some individual updates so not strictly 'eligible'). I'm on the fence about paying the 179 though, doesn't seem to be worth it to me.


It's on my cart for this price too, but my fence is that even $180 is very expensive to me (but the 499 price its just impossible). But I will just watch a movie and sleep after, and probably tomorrow the FOMO will be under control.


----------



## Thundercat

el-bo said:


> The temptation is real


It was. Until it wasn't. Until the money was gone and the dirty goods were transferred.

Except...one poster got the deal for 179 anyway after it said it was supposed to be 499, so all this over another error that would have allowed the same deal.


----------



## el-bo

alcorey said:


> I was going to get it after reading how it was being successfully purchased by a lot of you............... BUT I waited too long................ and got this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check Eligibility gave me $499 as an owner of MP4............................BUT!!!!
> 
> I had put it in my cart from an earlier visit and it was still there..............So I went to check out, put in the nerds10 code for 10% off and voila - I was able to still purchase it for $179.10
> 
> There is no guilt here at all. Most of those who were able to purchase for $199 more than likely would NOT have paid $499 for it (clearly, I wouldn't have) so Izotope made a bunch of dollars that they probably would not have @ the $499 level. They have lost nothing.


Speak for yourself! I've had my sights set on the NI $299 production bundle crossgrade. Seems like a fantastic deal, to me. But had I gone for this, they'd have received less money for more products.

Also, shifting the perspective akin to the 'victimless crime' seems to be completely missing the point?


----------



## Thundercat

el-bo said:


> Speak for yourself! I've had my sights set on the NI $299 production bundle crossgrade. Seems like a fantastic deal, to me. But had I gone for this, they'd have received less money for more products.
> 
> Also, shifting the perspective akin to the 'victimless crime' seems to be completely missing the point?


I don't want to be judgmental, but you've been awfully active in pursuing the morality of all of this...is there something you want to tell us? I told you my sins...


----------



## SoftSynthLover99

Are people really arguing morality over a software purchase here? If you purchased this bundle for the discounted price, then I see nothing wrong with that. You didn’t hack anything, you didn’t somehow rig iZotope’s network to display the price, you just paid for something that was available at the time. That has nothing to do with right or wrong, moral or immoral IMO. 

As consumers it’s always expected of u to get the bad end of a deal, or most transactions to be heavily in favor of the company. Nice to see consumers get a great bargain if only for a short time


----------



## alcorey

el-bo said:


> Speak for yourself! I've had my sights set on the NI $299 production bundle crossgrade. Seems like a fantastic deal, to me. But had I gone for this, they'd have received less money for more products.
> 
> Also, shifting the perspective akin to the 'victimless crime' seems to be completely missing the point?


I did speak for myself! I also made mention of a harmless "possibility or probability" - NOT A FACT.
There is no "crime" as far as I'm concerned. I've given Izotope plenty of money in the last few years - Mix & Master bundle, Tonal Balance, MP4, and now the purchase of Everything - no crime committed.

I think you should wait until the sale period ends and then pay them $2,499 for the Everything bundle and make some morally acceptable music!


----------



## Fleer

Nothing sweeter than remorse.


----------



## el-bo

Thundercat said:


> I don't want to be judgmental, but you've been awfully active in pursuing the morality of all of this...is there something you want to tell us? I told you my sins...


I thought we were having a conversation. To the extent that I'm pursuing anything, is to highlight the deeper implications of what seems like harmless fun. But in other contexts the question of morality would become much clearer.

I don’t see why trying to convince good people to act in accordance with their already inherent morality to be a bad thing.


----------



## dunamisstudio

Guess I missed the the cheap price.
But that's one hell of a glitch, they want $250 just to upgrade Music Production Suite. Despite I own everything except RX Advanced and Dialogue Match, previous versions, I'm not even considered for an Everything Bundle. Typical Izotope, screw existing customers, reward new ones. Since they are part of the group now, should offer deals to those that own Komplete too.


----------



## Bman70

I still have it in my cart from my reflexes acting this morning, seems to work still. And the Nerds10 coupon still works. Ah, FOMO Lol. Actually I'm pretty glad my wallet isn't $200 lighter while my de-clicking abilities have slightly increased.


----------



## el-bo

alcorey said:


> I did speak for myself! I also made mention of a harmless "possibility or probability" - NOT A FACT.
> There is no "crime" as far as I'm concerned. I've given Izotope plenty of money in the last few years - Mix & Master bundle, Tonal Balance, MP4, and now the purchase of Everything - no crime committed.
> 
> I think you should wait until the sale period ends and then pay them $2,499 for the Everything bundle and make some morally acceptable music!


You literally highlighted the bit I put in inverted commas, but then ignored it to suggest that I was actually accusing you of a crime. Nice!

You can rationalise all you want. You can even try and shame me for pointing out that there is a moral/ethical blind-spot that I think isn’t being acknowledged. But it was you who went ahead and took something that hadn’t been offered to you. You may have paid for a product, but you didn't pay the correct price for what you received. And I'm not sure you having previously given them plenty of money, is any kind of justfication.

And why would I need to spend $2,499? There are legitimate offers floatimg around


----------



## Fleer

There is no sanctuary!


----------



## bvaughn0402

Whew!! Mine is $499. At $199 I would have caved in. At $499 I can resist. 😀


----------



## el-bo

Fleer said:


> There is no sanctuary!


----------



## Thundercat

el-bo said:


> I thought we were having a conversation. To the extent that I'm pursuing anything, is to highlight the deeper implications of what seems like harmless fun. But in other contexts the question of morality would become much clearer.
> 
> I don’t see why trying to convince good people to act in accordance with their already inherent morality to be a bad thing.


I meant it a bit tongue in cheek; you seemed a bit zealous.

In any case, peace ✌️


----------



## alcorey

el-bo said:


> You literally highlighted the bit I put in inverted commas, but then ignored it to suggest that I was actually accusing you of a crime. Nice!
> 
> You can rationalise all you want. You can even try and shame me for pointing out that there is a moral/ethical blind-spot that I think isn’t being acknowledged. But it was you who went ahead and took something that hadn’t been offered to you. You may have paid for a product, but you didn't pay the correct price for what you received. And I'm not sure you having previously given them plenty of money, is any kind of justfication.
> 
> And why would I need to spend $2,499? There are legitimate offers floatimg around


But it WAS offered to me - otherwise how would I have purchased it?
I PAID the correct price they asked WHEN it was offered to me  

You're not going to convince me I've done anything wrong (singling me out) even though you are implying that ALL who bought in at $199 are sinners and criminals and morally bankrupt.

It's great for yourself to feel the way you do, keep it to yourself - don't come here preaching to the rest of us - this is not Sunday and you don't have the pulpit to preach from.


----------



## Bman70

el-bo said:


> I don’t see why trying to convince good people to act in accordance with their already inherent morality to be a bad thing.



It's just that there's so much assumption involved... from guessing iZotope's intentions, to assuming if the purchase goes through and the serial numbers register to your account correctly, it's still somehow not supposed to apply to you... that weighing all those assumptions in a way that tends evaluate others poorly, could appear less than neighborly. 

In the US, we're practically trained that prices even if a mistake will usually be honored. So it doesn't inspire a lot of nail biting if you see a hot price, you just grab it. So there's even another assumption, about what country and culture each of us comes from.


----------



## WWBiscuit

alcorey said:


> But it WAS offered to me - otherwise how would I have purchased it?
> I PAID the correct price they asked WHEN it was offered to me
> 
> You're not going to convince me I've done anything wrong (singling me out) even though you are implying that ALL who bought in at $199 are sinners and criminals and morally bankrupt.
> 
> It's great for yourself to feel the way you do, keep it to yourself - *don't come here preaching to the rest of us - this is not Sunday and you don't have the pulpit to preach from.*


I'm not sure that gifting the theoretical moral high ground to modern Christianity is the way to go these days...given its love of neoliberalism and far right bigotry.


----------



## José Herring

Technostica said:


> I wish that the OP would amend the first post to make it clear that this is for an Upgrade from a higher tier product.
> If you buy at this price when you aren't formally eligible, that is not the same as an actual deal that is available generally.
> If you are formally eligible, as I have stated above, it is cheaper at JRR.
> 
> This is a price I have seen before and inline with other deals that they have had for years now for MPS and to a lesser extent this bundle.
> ​


It's okay to call me by name. Honestly I didn't know as the original offer on the link said nothing about having to have RX9 Advanced. I haven't caught up to all this thread but it appears there was some sort of "glitch". I highly doubt that. I don't any company would make such a glitch. I honestly think they were trying to give it away because inspite of the warnings on the cart a few people were able to get the products in full in spite of not having met the prerequisite requirements. 
C'est La Vie.


----------



## José Herring

I haven't been able to catch up but it appears this "sale" was more of a "glitch". Then people jumped on the moral bandwagon. Honestly with the way that software developers slash prices with little to no warning how is anybody suppose to know if this deal was a legit or not? Sometimes products that cost thousands are on sale for less than a few hundred bucks. This business is volatile that way.


----------



## NuNativs

Crowe said:


> I've read 6 pages but it's still not clear to me if this will work when you have *no* standard version. I only have the light versions of everything. Has that worked for anyone?


Hold on, I'm sure we'll get this ironed out within another 12 pages or so...


----------



## NuNativs

el-bo said:


> I thought we were having a conversation. To the extent that I'm pursuing anything, is to highlight the deeper implications of what seems like harmless fun. But in other contexts the question of morality would become much clearer.
> 
> I don’t see why trying to convince good people to act in accordance with their already inherent morality to be a bad thing.


Wait, are we writing music, or debating morality?


----------



## alcorey

NuNativs said:


> Wait, are we writing music, or debating morality?


I think it's morphing into musicality


----------



## Constant K

Trash Panda said:


> The button was changed from buy to Check Eligibility and now leads to your loyalty offer page.


Wow made it by the skin of my teeth.


----------



## el-bo

alcorey said:


> But it WAS offered to me - otherwise how would I have purchased it?
> I PAID the correct price they asked WHEN it was offered to me


The offer was for those who had qualifying products. But due to a glitch, you were able to get it without. You can twist it however you want. Nothing will change that.



alcorey said:


> You're not going to convince me I've done anything wrong


Why? Are you 6 years old?



alcorey said:


> [...]you are implying that ALL who bought in at $199 are sinners and criminals and morally bankrupt.


Not implying or outright accusing anything of the sort. It's quite the opposite, actually. If I thought everyone here was morally bankrupt, or criminals, I wouldn't bother trying to reason with anyone. As I've already said, I think it's about genuinely good people acting in ways that are seemingly out-of-alignment with that natural state.

I happen to think this kind of thing is a bit of a blind-spot for people. And that when challenged they try to rationalise it away.

And just so it's clear, I'm not suggesting I'm better than anyone else.



alcorey said:


> It's great for yourself to feel the way you do, keep it to yourself - don't come here preaching to the rest of us - this is not Sunday and you don't have the pulpit to preach from.


Well, I'm more Atheist/Nihilist (Thanks for asking). But actually, in my time-zone - and at the hours I wrote them - many of my replies did fall on a Sunday


----------



## Nico5

el-bo said:


> And just so it's clear, I'm suggesting I'm better than anyone else.


is it fair to assume, that's a typo by omission?


----------



## alcorey

Nico5 said:


> is it fair to assume, that's a typo by omission?


I wouldn't assume that based on his higher than thou ethics


----------



## alcorey

I'm not going to continue spatting with you elbow, your views and my views are totally not aligned - good luck to you in your quest for fairness between developers and their customers - but please be sure to apply your tactics to BOTH - developers AND customers, because there is also something to be said about marketing practices of SOME developers - Izotope included


----------



## el-bo

Bman70 said:


> It's just that there's so much assumption involved... from guessing iZotope's intentions, to assuming if the purchase goes through and the serial numbers register to your account correctly, it's still somehow not supposed to apply to you... that weighing all those assumptions in a way that tends evaluate others poorly, could appear less than neighborly.


Why is there even need for assumptions? There was missing detail on the first page of the offer. But on the second page, it clearly stated who this upgrade path was available for. End of story, no? Shouldn't it be?

But one would only have had to read to (what?)...the second page of this thread, to know that there was a glitch that could be taken advantage of. From there, the conversation turned to the subject of what if anything Izotope would be able to do about it.

From that point on, anyone who then went ahead and tried to grab the deal, did so with full knowledge that this was very likely not something they were entitled to.

Even in the case that there're all these assumptions being made, why does that justify acting without having the assumptions cleared first. Wouldn't the best thing, to distinguish assumption from fact, be to actually wait until Izotope have confirmed the situation? 

And I think I am being neighbourly. I'm just choosing to include Izotope amongst my neighbours 



Bman70 said:


> In the US, we're practically trained that prices even if a mistake will usually be honored. So it doesn't inspire a lot of nail biting if you see a hot price, you just grab it. So there's even another assumption, about what country and culture each of us comes from.


This is no different than in the culture within which I was raised. But fortunately, there're a lot of things that are part of our various cultural upbringing(s) that people will often challenge. But this goes back to the discussion earlier i.e that just 'cause something will end up having to be honoured, doesn't make it the right thing to do. 

I think part of the issue, in this case, is that Izotope are not very much liked. And maybe there is a distancing - an air of big corp - that makes this more abstract, and easier to rationalise. But there are a huge amount of smaller developers that are a well-loved part of this community.

Would the situation be any different, in your mind, were it any of those that this was happening to? 

What if it were any of the one-man-and-his-dog (literally) boutique library designers? What if Pendle and Percy decided to spend a weekend away visiting family. And what if someone here found a 'poke' to get the entire 'Sound Dust' inventory for $1. Would the situation be the same? Would there be all the normal jollity, celebrating the glitch, even though Pendle would return home on Monday to find he was tens of thousands of pounds down on licenses? And would you, or anyone, feel comfortable leaning on their cultural upbringing to insist that these licences be honoured?

And maybe you don't identify with this company. If not, think of any other small developer that you really like, having to endure the same outcome.

Or what about if it was Mike Greene? Would it be ok for members here to spread the news of a glitch, so that we could all grab what we wanted, before the problem was fixed.

I think these are rhetorical questions for most of us here. But to me this is about consistency, and goes back to my main position i.e That I don't think anyone here is and person. i just think there is a blind-spot in situations like this, that when placed in different contexts should become a lot clearer.


----------



## el-bo

alcorey said:


> I'm not going to continue spatting with you elbow, your views and my views are totally not aligned - good luck to you in your quest for fairness between developers and their customers - but please be sure to apply your tactics to BOTH - developers AND customers, because there is also something to be said about marketing practices of SOME developers - Izotope included


If you feel slighted or badly treated by developers, then take it up with them. If you get no resolution, then don't give them your business...even when you stand to gain. There're companies I feel operate in ways i don't agree with, so i avoid them (and have done for years)...without exception...even if they are the only company to offer 'that one thing' I need. 

You want to suggest that I apply fairness to all sides (Something I try to do), while acting in a more eye-for-an-eye, "they fucked us over, so..." manner. Great!

At least you finally acknowledge that I'm arguing for fairness, and not taking the moral high-ground. That's a result I'm happy to take


----------



## Laddy

I would think that if it's possible to sell individual licenses, it could be that Izotope won't let this sail. Hundreds of cheap second hand Rx9 Adv and EA Symphony serials could devalue the product, no?


----------



## el-bo

NuNativs said:


> Wait, are we writing music, or debating morality?


Your answer is in the first sentence of my post that you quoted. Not sure how you missed it?

If you have no interest in the conversation, perhaps you should get back at it. Chop Chop! Music needs to be written!


----------



## el-bo

Nico5 said:


> is it fair to assume, that's a typo by omission?


Haha...yeah. Erm...edited


----------



## Laddy

Yeah, and clicks and hums need to be de-clicked and de-hummed. 😂


----------



## WWBiscuit

Does an Izotope rep frequent these boards? It would be interesting to hear their take on what has transpired.


----------



## chrisr

This was an interesting few hours. Last night at midnight uk i added the glitch to my basket, just to see what was up.

It was a pretty easy decision not to go through with purchase - i would LOVE to have some of that software, and only currently have the stuff that's been on deep discount or free, so I'm towards the bottom of the pile in terms of loyalty and nowhere near eligible.

Even this morning, telling my wife about it, she just said "well the nice thing about the moral high ground is that it's a very comfortable place to be".

I expect there's a chance i could still now go and check out the basket, but i won't be doing that.


----------



## el-bo

alcorey said:


> I wouldn't assume that based on his higher than thou ethics


I've already tried to make it clear that this is not the case. But if suggesting that it is makes your life better in some way, then i say have at it. My shoulders are wide enough


----------



## el-bo

José Herring said:


> Honestly with the way that software developers slash prices with little to no warning how is anybody suppose to know if this deal was a legit or not?


By asking Izotope, themselves


----------



## Crowe

Considering you have to add the product to the basket to see the "this is only for those updating" while nothing in the original loyalty deal implies that AND it doesn't seem to be for those updating, I'm pretty sure the error is in the basket description itself.

I like how some folks here are *really* choosy in what their morals allow. Extortionist practices? Fine! Eternal subs with no ownership? Nothing wrong with that. Buying a loyalty offer with a nonsensical basket description? You're going to hell buddy.

Not to mention they caught that one voucher basically immediately and this is still going.


----------



## el-bo

Crowe said:


> I like how some folks here are *really* choosy in what their morals allow. Extortionist practices? Fine! Eternal subs with no ownership? Nothing wrong with that. Buying a loyalty offer with a nonsensical basket description? You're going to hell buddy.


Googled "Strawman" and got linked to this post


----------



## Crowe

You must be magic, because that's not how Google works. As long as you're right huh?


----------



## LearningToCompose:)

WWBiscuit said:


> I'm not sure that gifting the theoretical moral high ground to modern Christianity is the way to go these days...given its love of neoliberalism and far right bigotry.


And i'm not sure that putting all christians in one basket is the way to go. It's in fact very bigoted. Not sure why you went there in a discussion about this.


----------



## el-bo

Crowe said:


> You must be magic, because that's not how Google works.


I'm accusing you of strawmanning certain of my positions, and you wanna just dismiss that with a technicality?

Maybe I'm wrong, and your comment wasn't directed at me. But if it was, then why not come straight out and ask me to clarify those positions?


----------



## Bman70

el-bo said:


> Why is there even need for assumptions? There was missing detail on the first page of the offer. But on the second page, it clearly stated who this upgrade path was available for. End of story, no? Shouldn't it be?


There you go, you assume that the 2nd of two pages is the correct one. But instead of a detail omitted from page 1, it could have been an incorrect detail added to page 2, as a busy website engineer re-used a template and left it in. Very common mistake. But that's the thing. I _don't have _to sit here and guess which is which, before buying something. And companies don't expect me to.


----------



## el-bo

Bman70 said:


> There you go, you assume that the 2nd of two pages is the correct one. But instead of a detail omitted from page 1, it could have been an incorrect detail added to page 2, as a busy website engineer re-used a template and left it in. Very common mistake. But that's the thing. I _don't have _to sit here and guess which is which, before buying something. And companies don't expect me to.


So you acknowledge that, for whatever reason, there has been some kind of mistake? Seems like a 50/50 gamble, or at least it would be if any of the jeopardy was yours. You've already explained that you have an expectancy, borne of cultural norms, that mistake or not the sale of the license would have to be honoured. So, no...you "_don't have _to sit [t]here and guess which is which". However, in the rest of my post (Which you've not addressed), I've tried to offer different but similar contexts, to frame the situation in a way that might give you pause, to consider whether it's right to act without knowing.

And you're right! I did/do assume it was an error. So I wrote to Izotope to confirm. And in that email, I expressly asked that they confirm the legitimacy (or not) of the deal, before the 22nd, so that I could buy this package deal instead of the NI cross-grade deal. I wonder if I can dare suggest that's the 'right' thing to do, without being accused of having a holier-than-thou attitude 

Would love to hear your thoughts on the rest of the post you quote from.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Well I realized I could get RX9 Standard for $100, which was a better deal than RX9 Advanced for $200 since I don't use any of the advanced modules. Nice. Also, I don't have a bunch of Izotope plugins I don't have to feel weird about not using, doing little more than reminding me each time I see them of what I did on that 18th of June...

Lo and behold, one of my sm57's has a hum. Sigh... But until my new one comes in the mail, now I have de-hum. And it works pretty well! The de-noising works pretty great in offline mode, also, and will probably work even better once I actually learn how to use it lol


----------



## Zedcars

Izotope probably got more more money from this so-called “glitch” than they would have done ordinarily. Why? Because it seems most people in this thread don’t even seem to want/need it that much but bought it anyway (FOMO?). IOW, they would never have bought it at the regular price. I actually think it’s win win for all parties.


----------



## Constant K

Kudos to everyone who didn't take advantage of the pricing error/deal.

Stay classy.

Me?

I live for this shit!

I will be waiting in the long grass for the next pricing error/deal. I will not hesitate.


----------



## PhilA

Bah I bought it as I wanted some of the stuff in there anyway. Do I feel guilty for ‘taking advantage’ do I hell. Izotope are still way richer as a business than I am and I doubt this ‘glitch’ will actually hurt their bottom line in the slightest.


----------



## Michael Antrum

VI-Control be going full Paul Bettany....


----------



## WWBiscuit

LearningToCompose:) said:


> And i'm not sure that putting all christians in one basket is the way to go. It's in fact very bigoted. Not sure why you went there in a discussion about this.



My post was directly referring to another poster's disaffection with apparent sermonising in this thread. In doing so, he/she evoked Christian iconography. That's the context. My comment may have been somewhat tangential, in that I veered into contemporary politics. It wasn't designed as a slight against all Christians, so was poorly worded by me if it is interpreted thus. My apologies.


----------



## resonate

Quasar said:


> Izotope has long been playing various shell games with sales in a way that makes it literally impossible to track. But even for them, this one is unusual... There has to be an angle, but I have no idea what it might be...


the world is ending. they will hide in a bunker soon.


----------



## LearningToCompose:)

WWBiscuit said:


> My post was directly referring to another poster's disaffection with apparent sermonising in this thread. In doing so, he/she evoked Christian iconography. That's the context. My comment may have been somewhat tangential, in that I veered into contemporary politics. It wasn't designed as a slight against all Christians, so was poorly worded by me if it is interpreted thus. My apologies.


No problem and thank you for your apology


----------



## NekujaK

In the brick & mortar world, if you walk into a store, pick up an item off the shelf that's marked $10, and during checkout it rings up as $25, you can legitimately point out that the "advertised" price on the shelf was $10, and the store is expected to honor the $10 price. And they nearly always do.

It doesn't matter if the $10 label was a mistake. The store is obligated to adhere to their publicly posted pricing.

The consumer isn't responsible for second guessing pricing decisions made by a seller. The consumer's only obligation is to pay the stated price.

Once iZotope made the $199 deal accessible to the public, it became the officially advertised price. If it was a mistake, it's iZotope's responsibility to fix it - they're the ones who set the price, after all. If a consumer feels compelled to somehow protect iZotope's interests, they can call it to their attention. But ultimately, the price set by iZotope is the only legitimate price, and the consumer's only responsibility is to pay it.

That's the contract between sellers and buyers. The seller states the price. The buyer pays the stated price. The seller can undercharge or overcharge deliberately or accidentally, but in all cases, the buyer's only obligation is to pay what the seller is asking.


----------



## MartinH.

The way I see it pirating plugins you wouldn't have purchased at full price is obtaining software for less than the intended price, but you can still change your mind later and buy the licenses, and until you do you have not directly caused costs to the developers. 
Conciously exploiting store glitches to get higher than intended discounts is obtaining software for less than the intended price, but you can not later buy it again to rectify that mistake, and the developer still has to pay for the download bandwidth and potentially licensing cost. 
Whether the glitch makes you a legally valid owner or not may depend on locally varying laws and regardless what these are the developer may feel forced to accept those sales as "legal" simply out of fear of the shitstorm that would ensue when they don't. 

So what's worse, pirating or exploiting store glitches? To me the difference is so small, I can't even say which one is worse for sure. 

That's just my 2 cents, I mean... fuel for the fire. 





NekujaK said:


> In the brick & mortar world, if you walk into a store, pick up an item off the shelf that's marked $10, and during checkout it rings up as $25, you can legitimately point out that the "advertised" price on the shelf was $10, and the store is expected to honor the $10 price. And they nearly always do.
> 
> It doesn't matter if the $10 label was a mistake. The store is obligated to adhere to their publicly posted pricing.
> 
> The consumer isn't responsible for second guessing pricing decisions made by a seller. The consumer's only obligation is to pay the stated price.


So you'd enforce the legal rights you have from consumer protection laws (even though this is a case where you don't need to be protected) on a struggling mom & pop retail store knowing full well that a 25$ item sold by mistake for 10$ is actively losing them money because margins are so small they will for sure have paid more than 10$ to obtain the item in the first place? That's... cold. You might as well outright steal a smaller item from them. If you just steal a 5$ item that's likely less damage to the store than buying the mislabeled 25$ item for 10$. 

I know stuff like this happens all the time, but I still don't think it's morally ok.


----------



## el-bo

NekujaK said:


> In the brick & mortar world, if you walk into a store, pick up an item off the shelf that's marked $10, and during checkout it rings up as $25, you can legitimately point out that the "advertised" price on the shelf was $10, and the store is expected to honor the $10 price. And they nearly always do.
> 
> It doesn't matter if the $10 label was a mistake. The store is obligated to adhere to their publicly posted pricing.
> 
> The consumer isn't responsible for second guessing pricing decisions made by a seller. The consumer's only obligation is to pay the stated price.
> 
> Once iZotope made the $199 deal accessible to the public, it became the officially advertised price. If it was a mistake, it's iZotope's responsibility to fix it - they're the ones who set the price, after all. If a consumer feels compelled to somehow protect iZotope's interests, they can call it to their attention. But ultimately, the price set by iZotope is the only legitimate price, and the consumer's only responsibility is to pay it.
> 
> That's the contract between sellers and buyers. The seller states the price. The buyer pays the stated price. The seller can undercharge or overcharge deliberately or accidentally, but in all cases, the buyer's only obligation is to pay what the seller is asking.


There was no issue with Izotope's pricing. That seems to be the price for the cross-grade from RX Advanced. It seems to have been a mistake, not clarifying this on the main page. However, it was clarified on the second page.

The terms of the deal and the price were not hidden, nor any different than they should've been.


----------



## NekujaK

MartinH. said:


> So you'd enforce the legal rights you have from consumer protection laws (even though this is a case where you don't need to be protected) on a struggling mom & pop retail store knowing full well that a 25$ item sold by mistake for 10$ is actively losing them money because margins are so small they will for sure have paid more than 10$ to obtain the item in the first place? That's... cold. You might as well outright steal a smaller item from them. If you just steal a 5$ item that's likely less damage to the store than buying the mislabeled 25$ item for 10$.


It's not my job to run their business for them. Every store proprietor knows that the prices they post are the prices that consumers will pay, so part of running a store entails being diligent about how you set your prices.

If they can't price their items properly, maybe they shouldn't be running a store.


----------



## marius_dm

el-bo said:


> You may have paid for a product, but you didn't pay the correct price for what you received.


There is NO such thing as a “correct” price for anything, something is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it. Source: Economics 101.
You keep saying that the second page description showed eligibility. Many people like me have a lot of plugins from them but not sure what bundle they actually own. If I bought MPS and a bunch of extra plugins do I have an “everything” bundle? Who knows, Izotope UI is one of the most confusing in the industry on that front. 
This is just silly to assume that people care to question Izotope pricing decisions. If anything someone could be entitled to sue them if they don’t honor the advertised $199.


----------



## Zedcars

MartinH. said:


> The way I see it pirating plugins you wouldn't have purchased at full price is obtaining software for less than the intended price, but you can still change your mind later and buy the licenses, and until you do you have not directly caused costs to the developers.
> Conciously exploiting store glitches to get higher than intended discounts is obtaining software for less than the intended price, but you can not later buy it again to rectify that mistake, and the developer still has to pay for the download bandwidth and potentially licensing cost.
> Whether the glitch makes you a legally valid owner or not may depend on locally varying laws and regardless what these are the developer may feel forced to accept those sales as "legal" simply out of fear of the shitstorm that would ensue when they don't.
> 
> So what's worse, pirating or exploiting store glitches? To me the difference is so small, I can't even say which one is worse for sure.
> 
> That's just my 2 cents, I mean... fuel for the fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you'd enforce the legal rights you have from consumer protection laws (even though this is a case where you don't need to be protected) on a struggling mom & pop retail store knowing full well that a 25$ item sold by mistake for 10$ is actively losing them money because margins are so small they will for sure have paid more than 10$ to obtain the item in the first place? That's... cold. You might as well outright steal a smaller item from them. If you just steal a 5$ item that's likely less damage to the store than buying the mislabeled 25$ item for 10$.
> 
> I know stuff like this happens all the time, but I still don't think it's morally ok.


In both cases neither store is forced to complete the transaction. The “mom and pop” are not legally obligated to do so*. They could just say “sorry, that was an error. We can give you a good will discount”, or they can say “sorry, that was an error, it’s either $25 or no sale”. Entirely up to them as owners of the store.

*not a expert in US law, happy to be corrected if wrong.


----------



## NekujaK

el-bo said:


> There was no issue with Izotope's pricing. That seems to be the price for the cross-grade from RX Advanced. It seems to have been a mistake, not clarifying this on the main page. However, it was clarified on the second page.
> 
> The terms of the deal and the price were not hidden, nor any different than they should've been.


IMHO, this also falls in iZotope's realm of responsibility. If the price they set has conditions associated with it, they need to A) state those conditions clearly and obviously; and B) take measures to validate and enforce those conditions.

It's their conditions, not ours, so they need to be responsible for enforcing them.


----------



## jules

marius_dm said:


> There is NO such thing as a “correct” price for anything





marius_dm said:


> [...] If anything someone could be entitled to sue them if they don’t honor the advertised $199.


Totaly agree that there's not such a thing like a "correct" price, but sueing them is a bit over the top... 
This whole thread is slowly moving towards the Drama Zone ...


----------



## gamma-ut

NekujaK said:


> In the brick & mortar world, if you walk into a store, pick up an item off the shelf that's marked $10, and during checkout it rings up as $25, you can legitimately point out that the "advertised" price on the shelf was $10, and the store is expected to honor the $10 price. And they nearly always do.



In many jurisdictions they are not obliged to (I'm not aware of one where the above is the case). They can just say "whoops, that's a mistake, you can buy it for $25 or leave it". It's just that the store owner may fancy a quieter life and eats the loss. 

It's the same deal here. Izotope seems to have honoured the pricing while the glitch was in place, and that seems par for the course for Izotope's prior approach to these situations (one of these day they might sort out their online store and offers. One day). 

In any case, I don't think I've ever seen a case where they've turned around later and said no deal when they've done a pricing SNAFU. And let's face it, what are they going to do other than provide a refund if that was the case?


----------



## Thundercat

I feel like there’s a crazy amount of moral high-grounding going on here and trying to protect Izotope.

Why?

Do they need protecting? Or are fragile egos hell-bent on keeping the world a certain version of “perfect”?

I didn’t know for sure if I was allowed to buy as I was confused about exactly what I had already; the fact it worked told me it was ok. It was NOT up to me to check with mommy to see if it was ok.

In all my years in IT I’ve never seen upgrade only licenses work, if the user was even able to purchase without proof of prior ownership.

If this was a glitch, then they have learned an expensive lesson in making sure their offers are working correctly.

It is not up to me to correct a large company, protect them, or assume that confusing marketing offers do not apply.

I’m going to bow out of this thread as the air is too thick with software lawyers wagging fingers at confused consumers who don’t know contract law for 39 years and holier-than-thou analogies of ripping off poor mom and pop stores for personal gain.

As if.

The road to hell is paved with forum threads like this.

Good day.


----------



## el-bo

marius_dm said:


> There is NO such thing as a “correct” price for anything, something is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it. Source: Economics 101.


I think you're referring to value, right? i.e Something only has value up to the amount people are prepared to pay for it. Price, on the other hand, is given. You accept it or you don't. Sure...at some point if sales don't match expectations then a company might rethink the price. But this os not a 'Pay what you want' kind of deal.



marius_dm said:


> You keep saying that the second page description showed eligibility. Many people like me have a lot of plugins from them but not sure what bundle they actually own. If I bought MPS and a bunch of extra plugins do I have an “everything” bundle? Who knows, Izotope UI is one of the most confusing in the industry on that front.


Which bit of the requirements section did you find confusing? Do you own RX Advanced?

Either way, this is missing the point. If in doubt, ask. 



marius_dm said:


> This is just silly to assume that people care to question Izotope pricing decisions.


Again...There was nothing wrong with the pricing, nor the qualifying requirements. In this case, those who blatantly didn't qualify for the upgrade took a chance that they could buy it and would likely get away with it 'cause it'd be too much stress (Bad PR, apparently) for Izotope to revoke the licenses.



marius_dm said:


> If anything someone could be entitled to sue them if they don’t honor the advertised $199.


Would it be churlish of me to suggest that those who are claiming that companies should be made to "honour" deals made by error, should themselves perhaps consider acting honourably, by not being happy to capitalise on others' errors?

Honour!


----------



## NekujaK

gamma-ut said:


> In many jurisdictions they are not obliged to (I'm not aware of one where the above is the case). They can just say "whoops, that's a mistake, you can buy it for $25 or leave it". It's just that the store owner may fancy a quieter life and eats the loss.


I think you're right, the store is not obliged to honor their shelf price (actually just happened to my wife at Costco this weekend). But I do believe, if a store advertizes a price - either online or in a newspaper (remember those?), they are legally obliged to honor it, otherwise it's considered false advertising.

Don't know if the same applies to webstores.


----------



## el-bo

Thundercat said:


> I feel like there’s a crazy amount of moral high-grounding going on here and trying to protect Izotope.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Do they need protecting? Or are fragile egos hell-bent on keeping the world a certain version of “perfect”?
> 
> I didn’t know for sure if I was allowed to buy as I was confused about exactly what I had already; the fact it worked told me it was ok. It was NOT up to me to check with mommy to see if it was ok.
> 
> In all my years in IT I’ve never seen upgrade only licenses work, if the user was even able to purchase without proof of prior ownership.
> 
> If this was a glitch, then they have learned an expensive lesson in making sure their offers are working correctly.
> 
> It is not up to me to correct a large company, protect them, or assume that confusing marketing offers do not apply.
> 
> I’m going to bow out of this thread as the air is too thick with software lawyers wagging fingers at confused consumers who don’t know contract law for 39 years and holier-than-thou analogies of ripping off poor mom and pop stores for personal gain.
> 
> As if.
> 
> The road to hell is paved with forum threads like this.
> 
> Good day.


I suppose coming out on the attack is one way to assuage your aforementioned guilt 

This post's got more fucking 'COPE' than Julian 



And it's not about protecting Izotope. It's about trying to protect a principle. If you have no sympathy for Izotope, then I already offered more close-to-home examples that might give you pause to reconsider your position. Maybe not, though.


----------



## Technostica

I am looking forward to the first person to write a Glitch Opera based around the text of this thread, so a morality tale for the VST generation.
All virtual instruments used in the production must have been acquired via a glitch though!


----------



## WWBiscuit

MartinH. said:


> The way I see it pirating plugins you wouldn't have purchased at full price is obtaining software for less than the intended price, but you can still change your mind later and buy the licenses, and until you do you have not directly caused costs to the developers.
> Conciously exploiting store glitches to get higher than intended discounts is obtaining software for less than the intended price, but you can not later buy it again to rectify that mistake, and the developer still has to pay for the download bandwidth and potentially licensing cost.
> Whether the glitch makes you a legally valid owner or not may depend on locally varying laws and regardless what these are the developer may feel forced to accept those sales as "legal" simply out of fear of the shitstorm that would ensue when they don't.
> 
> So what's worse, pirating or exploiting store glitches? To me the difference is so small, I can't even say which one is worse for sure.
> 
> That's just my 2 cents, I mean... fuel for the fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you'd enforce the legal rights you have from consumer protection laws (even though this is a case where you don't need to be protected) on a struggling mom & pop retail store knowing full well that a 25$ item sold by mistake for 10$ is actively losing them money because margins are so small they will for sure have paid more than 10$ to obtain the item in the first place? That's... cold. You might as well outright steal a smaller item from them. If you just steal a 5$ item that's likely less damage to the store than buying the mislabeled 25$ item for 10$.
> 
> I know stuff like this happens all the time, but I still don't think it's morally ok.



I dare say that contract law varies quite a bit from country to country. In Australia, an advertised selling price is regarded as an 'Invitation to Treat'. A consumer can then offer to buy at the advertised price, but the seller is not obliged to honour that price if a mistake has been made. Hence, the mom and pop retail store is protected from opportunists wanting to exploit an innocent error.

What happens online is another matter altogether, if not legally then certainly logistically. It is difficult when an actual moment of transaction does not involve two sentient beings. What constitutes an error, or more pointedly, how does the buyer unequivocally know? It is a world of caveat emptor, where purchasing requires some element of good faith from the buyer - i.e., that they will receive the advertised goods or services at the advertised price. Essentially their duty of care is to themselves - read the fine print, know what you're getting yourself into. But it would be tricky to argue that a buyer's duty of care extends to the seller as well. The consumer's choice is simple - should I enter this contract or not? It is not up to them to second guess the intentions of the seller. And when commercial transactions are automated and impersonal, as they are online, there is no definitive way of knowing whether something was intentional or not.

Now, if a seller contacts you afterwards to notify you of an error, and perhaps asks you to relinquish the purchased product for a refund or pay the difference, then it more clearly becomes a moral issue. I'm just not so sure that it is essentially a moral issue up until that point.


----------



## Technostica

NekujaK said:


> But I do believe, if a store advertizes a price - either online or in a newspaper (remember those?), they are legally obliged to honor it, otherwise it's considered false advertising.
> 
> Don't know if the same applies to webstores.


In the UK, most websites have terms that state that the contract is only fully binding after shipping or even delivery.
Glitches are common and often caught and especially when they are shared on prominent websites.
I have heard of cases where a company has shipped goods and then requested the courier to return them.


----------



## LearningToCompose:)

For me, this has nothing to do with Izotope specifically. It applies to all companies in this situation. Bigger or smaller than Izotope.
If for whatever reason you made a dumb mistake and forgot to make a link private on your website where you were selling all your music for $0. Or maybe something went wrong with a discount code or something. 
You didn't promote it on your website, but somehow someone got the link or discount code and then shared it on a public forum where everyone could take advantage of it.
Can you honestly say your attitude would be "Oh well, expensive lesson, but oh well, my bad", or would you have appreciated someone reaching out and asking if it was a mistake?
If you read this thread before purchasing, you knew something was up. You could have reached out to Izotope before deciding to purchase it.
You might think that you are immune to errors like this. But if it ever happens, just remember to have the same attitude towards it as you have when it comes to sofware developers you are purchasing from. Be consistent.


----------



## JCold

I got it, it's working. I understand the perspective that some don't want anything to do with it, fair enough. I think if they ever reneged on it, they should just deny the license and give me my money back, I wouldn't hold that against them(although they need to get their online store act together). It's not me asking for a refund, it's them eradicating the transaction. I get the feeling that they'll go "oh shit" sometime next week and just fix it and move on. Having a non-verified bundle upgrade URL is sort of an Online 101 Don't.

I should point out that I currently don't technically own an Everything license - I got the equivalent upgrade for the products in that, but it's not currently a bundle I own after the deal. For what that's worth.

I should also point out that I once bought a lifetime subscription to an Ableton tutorial site which is very, very good though a third party offer that was insanely cheap(iirc something like $20), and since then I've been noticing their pricing for everyone was something like that every month. It wasn't remotely shady, the company offering it is legit, it was just a decision they made at some point to offer a great deal and once it's gone, it's gone. For all I know they only offered 10 of them and I just lucked out. Again, it's sort of the price of doing business on the web. I refuse to feel bad about getting a great deal.


----------



## el-bo

NekujaK said:


> IMHO, this also falls in iZotope's realm of responsibility. If the price they set has conditions associated with it, they need to A) state those conditions clearly and obviously; and B) take measures to validate and enforce those conditions.
> 
> It's their conditions, not ours, so they need to be responsible for enforcing them.


I don't disagree that Izotope need to pay more attention and shore up their own defences. In the same way as it's up to people to make sure that they don't leave their houses with the doors wide open. 

I doubt anyone here would argue that an open door to a stranger's house is a glitch, and therefore entering and helping oneself to their belongings is 'fair game'. Moreover, I'd bet the same people would despair at anyone using such justifications for exploiting such a 'glitch'.

Can I ask what you do if/when a cashier undercharges you, or a waiter gives you too much change?


----------



## Laddy

The difference is that the marginal costs for a license is probably close to zero. Many people (musicians, hobbyists) would never even consider buying Rx, so its not money lost. UNLESS people start selling licenses second hand to people who would otherwise buy from Izotope for a higher price.


----------



## el-bo

LearningToCompose:) said:


> For me, this has nothing to do with Izotope specifically. It applies to all companies in this situation. Bigger or smaller than Izotope.
> If for whatever reason you made a dumb mistake and forgot to make a link private on your website where you were selling all your music for $0. Or maybe something went wrong with a discount code or something.
> You didn't promote it on your website, but somehow someone got the link or discount code and then shared it on a public forum where everyone could take advantage of it.
> Can you honestly say your attitude would be "Oh well, expensive lesson, but oh well, my bad", or would you have appreciated someone reaching out and asking if it was a mistake?
> If you read this thread before purchasing, you knew something was up. You could have reached out to Izotope before deciding to purchase it.
> You might think that you are immune to errors like this. But if it ever happens, just remember to have the same attitude towards it as you have when it comes to sofware developers you are purchasing from. Be consistent.


This! All of it!

When in doubt, the 'Golden Rule' is a great place to start


----------



## NekujaK

Regardless of the morality issues surrounding this iZotope glitch, I think iZotope's own poor web implementation definitely exascerbated the problem. Aside from the obvious mistake of allowing seemingly unqualified purchases to go thru, many of us were confused right from the start as to whether we were qualified for the deal or not.

iZotope's website has always been a bit of a pain to navigate. I often get asked to login again when navigating away from my account page. The loyalty deals listed in my account don't always make sense, and often don't even seem like deals. Now they don't even show you the price until you add an item to the cart - what? Because of various purchases I've made over the years, I have multiple licenses for multiple products, but there's no organized view where I can see all my licenses at a glance. I don't know which products were purchased as part of a bundle and which were purchased individually. Their checkout page is an unformatted mess of misaligned text and links that don't work.

It's just a big mess.

On top of this, my iZotope VST folder is loaded with so many versions of their plugins, I'm not even sure which are current.

When I made my purchase, I actually had no idea if I was eligible or not - not only because of the overall organizational confusion, but also because I didn't find a statemnet clearly saying which plugins were eligible, so I naturally assumed their checkout system would simply inform me of my status when I tried to make the purchase. After all, they required me to login, so they know who I am and what plugins I own.

Hopefully this glitch was a wakeup call for them to update their web presence.


----------



## NekujaK

el-bo said:


> I doubt anyone here would argue that an open door to a stranger's house is a glitch, and therefore entering and helping oneself to their belongings is 'fair game'. Moreover, I'd bet the same people would despair at anyone using such justifications for exploiting such a 'glitch'.


An unlocked door of a home and a mislabeled price in a store are two completely different things.

A home is private property, and entering it uninvited is trespassing. Taking items out of the home without permission is stealing. Trespassing and stealing are both morally and legally "wrong". This is always the case, whether the front door is locked or unlocked.

A store, whether on the web or on the street, is a commercial business where money is paid in exchange for items on sale. The store sets the price, and it's up to the consumer to decide if they want to pay that price. This is true whether the price was set mistakenly or deliberately. Morality is not involved - it's a simple business transaction. The store's responsibility is to provide the goods at the stated price, and the consumer's responsibility is to pay the stated price. It's very simple and it's worked for centuries.



el-bo said:


> Can I ask what you do if/when a cashier undercharges you, or a waiter gives you too much change?


I don't see how it matters what I do in these situations. I'm not here to fill out a "morality checklist".

Every person has their own moral compass. As much as we'd like everyone to embody the same moral values, the reality is, everyone makes their own moral choices. The best we can do as a society, is create laws that define unacceptable social behavior, but beyond that, it's up to every individual to act on their own conscience.

And no one should try to impose their moral standards/judgment on anyone else.


----------



## Fleer

Still, interesting comparison. Suppose the home owner left a message at the open door for a (loyal) friend stating: “I’m not in, please enter and have a drink or two while I’m out.”
Suppose he forgot to write whom the message was for. Would you enter?


----------



## el-bo

NekujaK said:


> An unlocked door of a home and a mislabeled price in a store are two completely different things.


Of course! Except, in this context I was answering your argument as to where the responsibility for the issue should be placed. If you're going to argue that it's up to the owner of certain property or goods to make sure they are well-secured (or accept the possible consequences) then I'd say they're the same. The software owner needs to check for glitches/exploits, the home-owner needs to make sure they check doors and windows before leaving the house and the cashier needs to pay more attention when handing out change...otherwise, well...

And you're still saying this was a mislabelled price. The price and the qualifying conditions seem to have been correct.



NekujaK said:


> A home is private property, and entering it uninvited is trespassing. Taking items out of the home without permission is stealing. Trespassing and stealing are both morally and legally "wrong". This is always the case, whether the front door is locked or unlocked.


You seem to be defaulting to this being a question of law, rather than a personal responsibility position. I clearly differ. 

One definition of stealing is: "To take without right or permission". Most here seem to be skating on the very thin-ice of a lack of proper validation (for qualifying products) as a tacit offer of permission. But given the terms of the deal were quite clearly-stated, along with the existence of this thread with almost everyone in agreement that this was not what was intended to be offered, then there was neither the right nor the permission. So...stealing?



NekujaK said:


> I don't see how it matters what I do in these situations. I'm not here to fill out a "morality checklist".


Whether it matters or not is for you and those you have influence over, to work out. Certainly, at least within the culture of the country in which I currently reside, the normal thing seems to pocket the money and keep schtum (I've literally been told that by someone who thought me insane to correct a waiter for undercharging me). Maybe that's just their perception.

But I'm not asking because I'm morally judging you. I'm asking to ascertain consistency. Your position seems to be that the onus lies with others to protect themselves against these potential issues, so I 
was curious to see if that's a position you hold as consistent, regardless of who you are dealing with. And if you're not consistent, I'd be curious to know what the difference would be that would determine who would benefit from your 'good' grace and who wouldn't.

But no...not a moral checklist; nor any pressure to answer. 



NekujaK said:


> Every person has their own moral compass. As much as we'd like everyone to embody the same moral values, the reality is, everyone makes their own moral choices. The best we can do as a society, is create laws that define unacceptable social behavior, but beyond that, it's up to every individual to act on their own conscience.
> 
> And no one should try to impose their moral standards/judgment on anyone else.


Subjective morality is a hard-sell. From a zoomed-in perspective, how we view this incident will no doubt (and evidently) be informed to a lesser or greater extent by how we each view Izotope, and how they conduct 'themselves'. But from a wider perspective, I'm suggesting that the way we act in this situation (Dare I say?) should be the way we act in every similar situation, whether it be a big 'faceless' music-corp such as Izotope or Waves; Pendle Poucher or Mike Greene; The Mom & Pop hardware store or the waiter who brings you your daily coffee.

And I couldn't disagree more with your notion that the "best" we can do is rely on the law to act as a safety-net for those whose social-behaviour is 'lacking' and leave everything up to the conscience of the individual. That maybe the reality, but it's certainly not the best. You're welcome to your fatalistic view of the world, of course. But maybe you're right. This thread is full of good people acting towards Izotope in a way they'd likely never act in other similar contexts. 

As I said, I'm not trying to impose my morals on others and I'm not claiming I'm better than anyone else. Far from it, in fact. (Anyone who has any inkling of how I genuinely feel about the world and my place within it would tell you that was an absurd idea). I have no unblemished moral score-card, either. But we live and learn.

But maybe might os make right, in which case there are a small handful of us who have moral compasses that are on the fritz. Either way, I'm just gonna leave y'all to it


----------



## Crowe

Fleer said:


> Still, interesting comparison. Suppose the home owner left a message at the open door for a (loyal) friend stating: “I’m not in, please enter and have a drink or two while I’m out.”
> Suppose he forgot to write whom the message was for. Would you enter?


Let's be honest here, if you leave your house unlocked and write a blanket permission slip to enter your home you're a f***omg idiot.


----------



## rrichard63

Zedcars said:


> *not a expert in US law, happy to be corrected if wrong.


I forget whether this is federal law or state law where I live: merchants are legally obligated to honor the price posted on the shelf. That doesn't mean they always do, but my experience is that they know the law and follow it.


----------



## Braveheart

In the meantime, Izotope is counting the unexpected flux of money from customers that wouldn’t have paid that amount otherwise, and are laughing very hard reading this thread…


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

For that price, it was a real steal.


----------



## rrichard63

I have an idea. Let's talk about the plugins. Maybe we could compare Neutron/Ozone to Fab Filter. Or figure out what the two "flagship" updates are going to be. Or something.

Just a thought ...


----------



## Guido Pannekoek

rrichard63 said:


> I have an idea. Let's talk about the plugins. Maybe we could compare Neutron/Ozone to Fab Filter. Or figure out what the two "flagship" updates are going to be. Or something.
> 
> Just a thought ...


Isn't it that Izotope is good for beginners because of their tutorials and once you understand what you are doing you better switch to Fabfilter products?


----------



## Karmand

I would have bought it but did not see that price in my cart. And to comment: this is a brilliant marketing plan from Izotope; get traction, get forums talking, get sales, make it look like a mistake, pull it back and get more sales. Lot's of talk about Izotope. I bought SStS Pro for 50 bucks that way.


----------



## badabing

I bought, even though I had misgivings. Had this been a small developer I wouldn't have and would actually have informed them they'd made a mistake, but part of what made me feel willing to take advantage of the glitch was that I feel Izotope are making moves which will harm smaller developers, using VC funding to form a company with NI/PA which will probably dominate the market in an unhealthy way. 

That's not a justification for my decision though, ultimately I knew it wasn't the most morally defensible thing to do, but I take responsibility for having made that choice, and if Izotope cancel my license I won't complain about it.

Ironically though I now regret buying for other reasons, as I don't really think I'll use the software! Ozone 8 was basically good enough for me, the Neutron/Nectar AI plugs are super CPU intensive and so far I don't like the mixing decisions they make, and I don't really do much in the way of audio restoration so RX advanced is overkill. Plus using all these new tools would take an age to learn, and I do not have time to spend on that. In fact if I could return to Izotope for a refund I probably would. I got seduced by the bargain gold rush and ignored my own sense of what is right for me. So I guess that's a lesson learned on my part.


----------



## Fleer

You can always resell the lot and make a substantial profit. Ah, the morality of it all!


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Can anyone tell me how I can download the Brainworx Creative mixing set? It is not in my Izotope Portal and I cannot find it on the Izotope website

Thank you


----------



## emilio_n

MorphineNoir said:


> Can anyone tell me how I can download the Brainworx Creative mixing set? It is not in my Izotope Portal and I cannot find it on the Izotope website
> 
> Thank you


In the mail let you know how to do it, but basically, go to the cart on the Plugin Alliance webpage and add the code you got on your mail. You didn't need to buy anything, just write the code.


----------



## Zedcars

MorphineNoir said:


> Can anyone tell me how I can download the Brainworx Creative mixing set? It is not in my Izotope Portal and I cannot find it on the Izotope website
> 
> Thank you


You should have received a redemption code via email.

_“To access your Brainworx products, please create an account at plugin-alliance.com, and add your redemption code here. Once the code is registered to your account, download and run the Installation Manager to get access to all six plug-ins.”_


----------



## tc9000

I found it was a bit tricky to locate Symphony's vst after it installed (I'm on Windows) - it's at C:\Program Files\VstPlugins\ if you have the same problem.


----------



## badabing

Fleer said:


> You can always resell the lot and make a substantial profit. Ah, the morality of it all!


Now I'm trying to work out if it's more morally problematic to sell it for the same price or to make a profit LOL!


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Zedcars said:


> You should have received a redemption code via email.
> 
> _“To access your Brainworx products, please create an account at plugin-alliance.com, and add your redemption code here. Once the code is registered to your account, download and run the Installation Manager to get access to all six plug-ins.”_


Ahhh I missed that part - thank you


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

badabing said:


> Now I'm trying to work out if it's more morally problematic to sell it for the same price or to make a profit LOL!


Give it free to a homeless person, for maximum Karma, he may be grateful that there’s a room plugin in it.


----------



## easyrider

badabing said:


> I bought, even though I had misgivings. Had this been a small developer I wouldn't have and would actually have informed them they'd made a mistake, but part of what made me feel willing to take advantage of the glitch was that I feel Izotope are making moves which will harm smaller developers, using VC funding to form a company with NI/PA which will probably dominate the market in an unhealthy way.
> 
> That's not a justification for my decision though, ultimately I knew it wasn't the most morally defensible thing to do, but I take responsibility for having made that choice, and if Izotope cancel my license I won't complain about it.
> 
> Ironically though I now regret buying for other reasons, as I don't really think I'll use the software! Ozone 8 was basically good enough for me, the Neutron/Nectar AI plugs are super CPU intensive and so far I don't like the mixing decisions they make, and I don't really do much in the way of audio restoration so RX advanced is overkill. Plus using all these new tools would take an age to learn, and I do not have time to spend on that. In fact if I could return to Izotope for a refund I probably would. I got seduced by the bargain gold rush and ignored my own sense of what is right for me. So I guess that's a lesson learned on my part.


FOMO bit you in the ass! 😂


----------



## rrichard63

Guido Pannekoek said:


> Isn't it that Izotope is good for beginners because of their tutorials and once you understand what you are doing you better switch to Fabfilter products?


That's one way to look at it. I've always thought of Neutron and Nectar as (complicated) channel strips. And I think of mastering suites like Ozone as being a specialized kind of channel strip. Since Fab Filter doesn't offer a channel strip, you are comparing two different workflows. I don't think it's an either/or decision; each is suited to different situations.


----------



## badabing

easyrider said:


> FOMO bit you in the ass! 😂


It really did, $179 to try out software I'd probably have decided not to buy FML


----------



## NekujaK

el-bo said:


> Of course! Except, in this context I was answering your argument as to where the responsibility for the issue should be placed. If you're going to argue that it's up to the owner of certain property or goods to make sure they are well-secured (or accept the possible consequences) then I'd say they're the same. The software owner needs to check for glitches/exploits, the home-owner needs to make sure they check doors and windows before leaving the house and the cashier needs to pay more attention when handing out change...otherwise, well..


I see them as very different. A homeowner locking windows and doors is doing so to deter a burglary, which is a crime.

iZotope validating customer qualifications for a purchase is not about crime prevention, but simply enforcement of their own arbitrary rules. The fact that they failed to enforce their own rules, or even clearly state them, doesn't make those who purchased the bundle morally bankrupt or criminals.

As a seller, iZotope may have made a mistake (we don't know for sure), but buyers were simply purchasing what iZotope had on offer in their store. No crime was committed. A few lucky people got a great deal before iZotope apparently fixed the problem. But it was always THEIR problem to fix.


----------



## gamma-ut

rrichard63 said:


> I forget whether this is federal law or state law where I live: merchants are legally obligated to honor the price posted on the shelf. That doesn't mean they always do, but my experience is that they know the law and follow it.



If that's California, as I understand it, the relevant bit of the Business and Professions Code only applies to commodities - basically food, fuel and stuff like that. It's the same in Massachusetts by the looks of it and maybe some other states.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

rrichard63 said:


> I forget whether this is federal law or state law where I live: merchants are legally obligated to honor the price posted on the shelf. That doesn't mean they always do, but my experience is that they know the law and follow it.


Here in germany (where its said whats tagged, counts) i bought a Dr Pepper some weeks ago, which was priced as 99€ct. At the cashier, he scanned it for 1,39. Being equipped with not more than 1€, i suprised him so much by informing him about the wrong pricetag, he called someone to run through that whole store looking for the „correct“ price. That took a while. Meanwhile, that induced many situative negativities:
I felt like a poor bum. I felt like i cant read. I felt like being picky. I felt like i have too much time without caring for the whole good world and people behind me.

As the waiting line bulked and started producing gnarly noises, he scanned it again, and the „reduced price“
appeared, like something holy granted me mercy and wanted to get rid of me finally.

What i learned from that, is that, even if my morals start to nibble on me, its worth waiting for clarification of the entity that has raised a doubt of its own intelligence.
And, that even 99ct was too much for something that tastes like toothpaste.


----------



## Braveheart

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Here in germany (where its said whats tagged, counts) i bought a Dr Pepper some weeks ago, which was priced as 99€ct. At the cashier, he scanned it for 1,39. Being equipped with not more than 1€, i suprised him so much by informing him about the wrong pricetag, he called someone to run through that whole store looking for the „correct“ price. That took a while. Meanwhile, that induced many situative negativities:
> I felt like a poor bum. I felt like i cant read. I felt like being picky. I felt like i have too much time without caring for the whole good world and people behind me.
> 
> As the waiting line bulked and started producing gnarly noises, he scanned it again, and the „reduced price“
> appeared, like something holy granted me mercy and wanted to get rid of me finally.
> 
> What i learned from that, is that, even if my morals start to nibble on me, its worth waiting for clarification of the entity that has raised a doubt of its own intelligence.
> And, that even 99ct was too much for something that tastes like toothpaste.


Let's hope you used that extra money on the Izotope deal.


----------



## Drjay

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Here in germany (where its said whats tagged, counts) i bought a Dr Pepper some weeks ago, which was priced as 99€ct. At the cashier, he scanned it for 1,39. Being equipped with not more than 1€, i suprised him so much by informing him about the wrong pricetag, he called someone to run through that whole store looking for the „correct“ price. That took a while. Meanwhile, that induced many situative negativities:
> I felt like a poor bum. I felt like i cant read. I felt like being picky. I felt like i have too much time without caring for the whole good world and people behind me.
> 
> As the waiting line bulked and started producing gnarly noises, he scanned it again, and the „reduced price“
> appeared, like something holy granted me mercy and wanted to get rid of me finally.
> 
> What i learned from that, is that, even if my morals start to nibble on me, its worth waiting for clarification of the entity that has raised a doubt of its own intelligence.
> And, that even 99ct was too much for something that tastes like toothpaste.


If I remember correctly (I attended a contractual law semester ages ago), in Germany the price tag is the request to the client to make an offer to the merchant and not the offer of the merchant. Which means the merchant does not need to accept it and you can‘t force him to sell the goods for the price mentioned on the tag. Strange…


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

Drjay said:


> If I remember correctly (I attended an contractual law semester ages ago), in Germany the price tag is the request to the client to make an offer to the merchant and not the offer of the merchant. Which means the merchant does not need to accept it and you can‘t force him to sell the goods for the price mentioned an the tag. Strange…


Maybe depends on the kind of force that’s being used, which is very calculable.
Sometimes „my dad is a lawyer“ helps, sometimes its heat plus a whole day of movement.
If i ever see something written followed
by a *, ill change the side of the road.


----------



## José Herring

el-bo said:


> By asking Izotope, themselves


iZotope in no way made it clear until after you put it in the cart that RX9 was a prerequisite. The whole sale was confusing. So you are harping on people for getting confused? Makes no sense.

But thanks, next time a company puts a product on sale I will contact tech support to make sure they mean it.

I hear what you are saying though and if it was clear that they made a mistake then okay I get it, but it wasn't clear at all.

And just to be frank, I didn't take advantage. I posted because I was confused but ended up not buying it once I realized that RX9 Advanced was a Prerequisite.

But I also don't blame others if they bought it anyway. Did iZotope come out and say they made a mistake? This glitch got the industry buzzin' over iZotope. I learned of the sale on Facebook and it seems like it took them days to correct it. Hmmm.....impossible to believe they didn't mean it.


----------



## Mike Greene

Funny timing, I was installing software on my new Mac Studio a few days ago and since it's on Monterey, I figured this was a good time to go ahead and upgrade RX6. I saw this deal on my upgrades page and snapped it up, since I also needed to upgrade Ozone.

In theory I got lucky, but in a way, so did iZotope. Years ago, they convinced me to upgrade RX to RX Advanced for a really low price. But then ... every time I upgrade RX, it's $199 instead of $99. I'm not so sure I've ever used any of the "Advanced" features of RX, but they got an extra hundred bucks out of me each time I'd update. As others have said, there's a sort of subscription aspect to this and they hooked me into a pricier subscription when all I actually need is the basic De-Noise element. Who knows what they'll charge me when I need to upgrade this everything bundle. More than $99, that's for sure.

As a developer myself, I've had a couple similar glitches where people got better deals than they should have. I'm annoyed with myself about them, but at the same time, I think I came out ahead overall. It's software downloads, and electrons are cheap, so it's not like I _lost_ money. My guess is iZotope is similarly annoyed, but kinda happy about it.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

José Herring said:


> But thanks, next time a company puts a product on sale I will contact tech support to make sure they mean it.


Thats the spirit. Imagine the depression buying something and waking up the next day and reading an email about a mistake and getting your money back. When you had wet dreams about your new possession and telling everybody you made the deal of your life.


----------



## Polkasound

José Herring said:


> I learned of the sale on Facebook and it seems like it took them days to correct it. Hmmm.....impossible to believe they didn't mean it.


This could very well have been a planned, intended "glitch." If you want an influx of revenue, you can't run a blowout sale with rock-bottom prices because you're guaranteed livid backlash from your loyal customers, you have to coordinate the sale with all your retailers, and it will devalue your products. But, if you rig it so that an unadvertised blowout price is accessible by the general public, you can run the "sale" for a short period of time by masking it as a glitch.

I can't assume with 100% certainty that's what Izotope did here, but considering their adoption of subscriptions and the possibility that their perpetual license sales may have slowed to a crawl, tapping the GAS market by running a glitch sale would have been a viable way to generate a quick influx of revenue from new customers.

Had this been a glitch where I could have gotten their products for free, then I would have abstained on moral grounds as it clearly would have been a mistake. But $199 is not nothing. From a business perspective, there's nothing clear about what happened. The only thing that's clear right now is that Izotope is sitting on a pile of money. I'm sure they'll come out of this just fine.


----------



## Crowe

José Herring said:


> iZotope in no way made it clear until after you put it in the cart that RX9 was a prerequisite. The whole sale was confusing. So you are harping on people for getting confused? Makes no sense.
> 
> But thanks, next time a company puts a product on sale I will contact tech support to make sure they mean it.
> 
> I hear what you are saying though and if it was clear that they made a mistake then okay I get it, but it wasn't clear at all.
> 
> And just to be frank, I didn't take advantage. I posted because I was confused but ended up not buying it once I realized that RX9 Advanced was a Prerequisite.
> 
> But I also don't blame others if they bought it anyway. Did iZotope come out and say they made a mistake? This glitch got the industry buzzin' over iZotope. I learned of the sale on Facebook and it seems like it took them days to correct it. Hmmm.....impossible to believe they didn't mean it.


Don't worry too much, just because folk are really loud doesn't mean they're necessarily right.

Truly, the sense of moral superiority in this topic is getting nauseating.


----------



## kitekrazy

So we are back to the regular never makes sense upgrade pricing.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

Crowe said:


> Don't worry too much, just because folk are really loud doesn't mean they're necessarily right.


Folks getting now even louder mastering with Ozone.


----------



## davidanthony

Polkasound said:


> I can't assume with 100% certainty that's what Izotope did here, but considering their adoption of subscriptions and the possibility that their perpetual license sales may have slowed to a crawl, tapping the GAS market by running a glitch sale would have been a viable way to generate a quick influx of revenue from new customers.









In all seriousness, I think Izotope would have let this ride through the weekend if they meant to do this. They added the eligibility check quite soon after people started contacting them with questions.


----------



## davidanthony

Thundercat said:


> I’m going to bow out of this thread as the air is too thick with software lawyers wagging fingers at confused consumers who don’t know contract law for 39 years


Erm, I think this one is directed at me. I'm sorry you felt that way, but I'd just like to point out that you were the one who replied to my response to Mark, stating that you "disagree" and then proceeded to make a bunch of inaccurate legal statements, so you kind of brought this on yourself. In the future I'd consider not inviting debates if you don't want to deal with the outcome...


----------



## tmhuud

Crowe said:


> Don't worry too much, just because folk are really loud doesn't mean they're necessarily right.
> 
> Truly, the sense of moral superiority in this topic is getting nauseating.


There are plugins for being too loud.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

davidanthony said:


> Erm, I think this one is directed at me. I'm sorry you felt that way,


Should have stopped right there, it feels for the harmony addicted.


----------



## el-bo

Crowe said:


> Truly, the sense of moral superiority in this topic is getting nauseating.


From the guy who is willing to die on the hill of subscriptions as a moral abomination, but who gives a hard pass to mining glitches and riding 'em for everything they've got


----------



## el-bo

Mike Greene said:


> As a developer myself, I've had a couple similar glitches where people got better deals than they should have. I'm annoyed with myself about them, but at the same time, I think I came out ahead overall. It's software downloads, and electrons are cheap, so it's not like I _lost_ money. My guess is iZotope is similarly annoyed, but kinda happy about it.


Would you have felt the same way if these glitches had resulted in zero money gained and thousands of licenses lost?


----------



## Polkasound

davidanthony said:


> In all seriousness, I think Izotope would have let this ride through the weekend if they meant to do this. They added the eligibility check quite soon after people started contacting them with questions.


That would make sense, because they could say "Sorry, no one was in the office to catch and fix the error," but fixing it on a Saturday after it's apparently been propagated on Facebook for a few days would make the glitch seem even more unintentional.


----------



## Crowe

Polkasound said:


> That would make sense, because they could say "Sorry, no one was in the office to catch and fix the error," but fixing it on a Saturday after it's apparently been propagated on Facebook for a few days would make the glitch seem even more unintentional.


I am furiously taking notes.


----------



## fakemaxwell

iZotope sold me Iris for 50 dollars, and then the next day gave it away for free. For this, they will be first against the wall!!!


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

el-bo said:


> Would you have felt the same way if these glitches had resulted in zero money gained and thousands of licenses lost?


Would you feel the same way if the sky was green?
Would you feel the same way if you ate a bean?
Would you feel the same way if they were very mean?

I'm not sure how these hypotheticals are relevant...


----------



## José Herring

I got R2, R4 and Iris for $30 total from them. How the hell is anybody suppose to figure out that this time they didn't mean it when they have a history of cut throat pricing.


----------



## Constant K

badabing said:


> Ironically though I now regret buying for other reasons, as I don't really think I'll use the software! Ozone 8 was basically good enough for me, the Neutron/Nectar AI plugs are super CPU intensive and so far I don't like the mixing decisions they make, and I don't really do much in the way of audio restoration so RX advanced is overkill. Plus using all these new tools would take an age to learn, and I do not have time to spend on that. In fact if I could return to Izotope for a refund I probably would. I got seduced by the bargain gold rush and ignored my own sense of what is right for me. So I guess that's a lesson learned on my part.


I think it is worth it for RX, Tonal Balance and Insight alone tbh. Plus IMO right now you are underestimating the usefulness of RX. Ok you may not need advanced but RX is incredible software.

I agree that Neutron is cpu hungry, particularly if you are using the fancy features, but the fancy features are kinda the point. It's never really been my jam either as a mixing channel, I don't like the interface for example, but I will withhold judgement until I dig into the new features some (I'll probably still dislike it, lol). Some of the Ozone modules are very good too btw, you don't need to use every single module to get value from that. EDIT: I have quickly realised that using the individual modules solves a lot of my issues with the neutron workflow. I just don't care about the AI stuff, YMMV but the individual processors are worthwhile IMO.

It's not gonna change your life overnight but it is very much worth what you've paid for it. Do not sell it off in the first couple of months is my advice. FOMO REGRET can be way worse than actual FOMO, trust me I know. If someone were just looking to flip it sure but you're not. In six months or a year you could definitely look back and think "Dang, what a bargain THAT was!".


----------



## el-bo

José Herring said:


> I got R2, R4 and Iris for $30 total from them. How the hell is anybody suppose to figure out that this time they didn't mean it when they have a history of cut throat pricing.


There's a difference between getting cheap deals on what was at one point considered end-of-life software (It was, if you were a Mac0user, hopeful of a move towards Apple Silicon), and getting everything they own for less than all the other current upgrade/crossgrade bundles.

You started this thread from a position of incredulity. I'd say, you're quite well-tuned to what is legit and what isn't


----------



## el-bo

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I'm not sure how these hypotheticals are relevant...


Hypotheticals can be a useful tool to get to the crux of someone's position and/or to test the consistency of their position. In this case, there would be two constants: a) The eventuality of a glitch and, b) The willingness of the majority to pounce on said glitch, without much (or any) consideration for the consequences.

If exploiting glitches is to be seen as fair game, then that would also have to apply in a case where Izotope, Mike or any other developer stood to lose a helluva lot of money.


----------



## Trash Panda




----------



## Crowe

Trash Panda said:


>


Whelp, XKCD has been quoted.

This topic can be closed now.


----------



## Mike Greene

el-bo said:


> Hypotheticals can be a useful tool to get to the crux of someone's position and/or to test the consistency of their position. In this case, there would be two constants: a) The eventuality of a glitch and, b) The willingness of the majority to pounce on said glitch, without much (or any) consideration for the consequences.
> 
> If exploiting glitches is to be seen as fair game, then that would also have to apply in a case where Izotope, Mike or any other developer stood to lose a helluva lot of money.


You're missing Sarah's point, though. The hypothetical you proposed: _"resulted in zero money gained and thousands of licenses lost"_ is not what happened. iZotope made a _lot_ of money on this, and they didn't lose any licenses, they _sold_ licenses. Hence the pile of money they just made. (And the resulting suspicions this may have been intentional.)

Not only that, they're going to _keep_ making money on those licenses, since iZotope charges handsomely for yearly updates, and the vast majority of people who bought this bundle are going to pay an update/upgrade price at some point. So if they sold these bundles too cheap (intentionally or accidentally), they're still going to reap years of residual income from those sales.

Realitone, on the other hand, operates on a completely different business model than iZotope does. All our money is from that first sale, and we don't keep collecting yearly upgrade fees. If you bought the Ladies when they first came out ten years ago, they still work today, and you haven't paid me a nickel for it since then.

So there's not a real comparison here. But ... if you insist - If I accidentally sold a whole pile of $500 licenses for $200, and in the process, I didn't suffer the repercussions of being blamed for having a blowout sale, I think I'd be a happy boy.


----------



## Nico5

@el-bo

As you noticed from a prior response of mine, I had given you the strong benefit of the doubt.

However, allow me to mention how uncomfortable I am with conversations invoking "morality".

To me the invocation of "morality" is an attempt to stop dialog. It strikes me as coming from the same fundamentalist playbook to stop questioning and conversations and learning about often complex topics that require context dependent and nuanced discussion.

In several of your posts you seem to actively dismiss the validity of a more contextual discussion and maybe different valid answers for different individuals by invoking the morality clause. And you seem to have reached into "slippery slope" ("hypotheticals") type of arguments to make an absolutist case, while dismissing other arguments as "strawmen". -- That made me wonder if you're really interested in a conversation exploring alternate ways of looking at things, or if over the duration of this thread you've slowly migrated to just needing to win an argument?

As a result I now perceive you as being quite judgemental - although you may not feel that way about yourself. That in itself doesn't make you a bad person or unlikable - some of the favourite people in my life also have a very judgemental streak. But I also frequently remind them of their judgemental nature. 

Fundamentalism can be found on many topics, not just religion. I have come across too many people who escaped one kind of fundamentalism, just to end up in another. In addition or instead of religion, some people are fundamentalist atheists, some others are fundamentalist vegans, some are fundamentalist free speech advocates, some are fundamentalist moralists.

I understand how seductive fundamentalism is, since it makes it so much easier to comprehend and react to and make decisions in an ever more complicated world. However, it's also a primary driver of division in the world, because it prevents people from growing their own positions and attitudes. And it gets in the way of compromise. And it's also a great enabler for the abuse of power.

I subscribe to the world view that many (most?) things are very contextual and therefore in fringe cases get incredibly complicated, multi-dimensional and nuanced. In my view, the iZotope glitch story falls into nuanced and complicated territory.

I had a very complicated reaction to the glitch because of the multi-dimensionality of the situation, including questions such as

Is it a genuine innocent mistake or a sneaky marketing AB test, or a devilishly brilliant "fomo" experiment to quickly milk money from people who would otherwise never have parted with that money? Am I being an a-hole to "take advantage" or am I being "smart with my limited funds" or am I a dupe who's falling for a cheap psychology trick?
Are they innocently incompetent or willfully and abusively confusing in their pricing strategy?
Is my money going to a small group of people trying to eek out a living or to a stone-cold-hearted incredibly wealthy investor group, that actively tries to milk me for everything they can?
Do I want to get even more deeply into their eco-system, while I'm actually considering to get out entirely?
Would buying the big package now lock me into much more expensive upgrades of the big package forever? (e.g. I've never gone to NI Komplete Ultimate or Steinberg Nuendo because I was afraid, that it would lock me into those higher priced upgrade paths forever (compared to Komplete regular and Cubase).
Is the stuff I don't already have even worth the lowest possible "glitch" price for my future work flow needs? (Arguably there were 3 different pricing levels of "glitch").
I ended up on the *not buying* side (so the apparently same side as you), but it never crossed my mind to question the different decision tree bottom lines of other individuals, whether they came to a similar one to me or to a very different one.

Personally I would find your position much more admirable, if you communicated it as purely your own discomfort to purchase in this set of circumstances, without claiming to be guided by a universal "morality" and hammering the thread with it's universal applicability overriding any other individual's considerations. 

For me, the issue isn't your decision making, the problem is the claim of universality.

I'd be impressed and feel enlightened, if you stated why you came to a conclusion for yourself while also accepting that different decision outcomes are perfectly valid and interesting. And maybe refrain from trying to prove that everyone coming to a different conclusion is wrong.


In my view, for a case like this "live and let live" principles easily beat "morality" principles.


----------



## Hendrixon

badabing said:


> It really did, $179 to try out software I'd probably have decided not to buy FML


I'd pay you $5 to call iZotope and tell them you want a refund cause you think their whole software catalog is not worth $179


----------



## Bman70

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Folks getting now even louder mastering with Ozone.


Morality at -3 LUFS.


----------



## Bman70

davidanthony said:


> In all seriousness, I think Izotope would have let this ride through the weekend if they meant to do this. They added the eligibility check quite soon after people started contacting them with questions.


That can never be more than speculation. If a company did do this on purpose, of course they'd have a given amount of licenses targeted to sell, after which they would shut it off.


----------



## SoftSynthLover99

el-bo said:


> Hypotheticals can be a useful tool to get to the crux of someone's position and/or to test the consistency of their position. In this case, there would be two constants: a) The eventuality of a glitch and, b) The willingness of the majority to pounce on said glitch, without much (or any) consideration for the consequences.
> 
> If exploiting glitches is to be seen as fair game, then that would also have to apply in a case where Izotope, Mike or any other developer stood to lose a helluva lot of money.


Ok so hypothetically speaking, what if iZotope sold 3,000 licenses at $199 (nearly $600,000 in profit in a very short time frame). Are you advocating for iZotope to void all those transactions, refund over half a million dollars, all because the website they operate had a price glitch? Is that your position?

In any case, hypothetically speaking, how are the people who made a company over a half a million dollars within 1-2 days, somehow immoral because they got a great discount on software? They didn’t hack any system, exploit or disrupt iZotope servers, they just added something to the cart and purchased it.

You went to the extreme of developers losing money and thousands of licenses, but the other extreme is also a possibility. Selling thousand of licenses and making 100s of thousands (or millions) of dollars.

You seem to be thinking in absolute black or white terms with no room in between for things to be viewed differently. Life is rarely that simple my friend.


----------



## Hadrondrift

Mike Greene said:


> iZotope [...] didn't lose any licenses, they _sold_ licenses.


And maybe that's exactly what Soundwide is interested in. Perhaps the success of iZotope in the early days of the alliance is measured primarily by the number of licenses sold, not by the actual revenue generated with them. Such glitches, be they intentional, unintentional or deliberately tolerated, can massively increase the number of licenses sold, generating regular revenue from update sales in the longer term. Who knows, maybe they'll even be sort of happy because they can deliver good figures to the Soundwide Group ("We sold a few thousand new licenses!")

Related side note: Some even judge the Plugin Alliance "Forever29" subscription as kind of a "glitch", because it can be canceled and renewed at will, can even be purchased multiple times and effectively sets the price of all PA plugins to $31. At first glance, this may seem nonsensical from a business perspective, but it can make sense if Soundwide initially measures the success of PA primarily by the number of subscriptions sold rather than actual revenue generated.


----------



## Fleer

Interesting observation indeed. Similar things happening at iZotope and Plugin Alliance, it seems. Something’s afoot, as even IK Multimedia is pushing out Group Buys like there’s no tomorrow.


----------



## el-bo

Mike Greene said:


> You're missing Sarah's point, though. The hypothetical you proposed: _"resulted in zero money gained and thousands of licenses lost"_ is not what happened. iZotope made a _lot_ of money on this, and they didn't lose any licenses, they _sold_ licenses. Hence the pile of money they just made. (And the resulting suspicions this may have been intentional.)
> 
> Not only that, they're going to _keep_ making money on those licenses, since iZotope charges handsomely for yearly updates, and the vast majority of people who bought this bundle are going to pay an update/upgrade price at some point. So if they sold these bundles too cheap (intentionally or accidentally), they're still going to reap years of residual income from those sales.
> 
> Realitone, on the other hand, operates on a completely different business model than iZotope does. All our money is from that first sale, and we don't keep collecting yearly upgrade fees. If you bought the Ladies when they first came out ten years ago, they still work today, and you haven't paid me a nickel for it since then.
> 
> So there's not a real comparison here. But ... if you insist - If I accidentally sold a whole pile of $500 licenses for $200, and in the process, I didn't suffer the repercussions of being blamed for having a blowout sale, I think I'd be a happy boy.


Thanks! Will respond tomorrow, if the thread is still open.


----------



## timprebble

Hadrondrift said:


> And maybe that's exactly what Soundwide is interested in. Perhaps the success of iZotope in the early days of the alliance is measured primarily by the number of licenses sold, not by the actual revenue generated with them. Such glitches, be they intentional, unintentional or deliberately tolerated, can massively increase the number of licenses sold, generating regular revenue from update sales in the longer term. Who knows, maybe they'll even be sort of happy because they can deliver good figures to the Soundwide Group ("We sold a few thousand new licenses!")
> 
> Related side note: Some even see the Plugin Alliance "Forever29" subscription as kind of a "glitch", because it can be canceled and renewed at will, can even be purchased multiple times and which effectively sets the price of all plugins to $31. At first glance, this may seem nonsensical from a business perspective, but it can make sense if Soundwide initially measures the success of PA primarily by the number of subscriptions sold rather than actual revenue generated.


Very good point.
It's important to remember that VC funded business does not rely on the same data as a normal* business. The ideal for VC funded business (to access more VC funding) is 'hypergrowth'

By "normal" I mean a business that regardless of scale, is profitable enough to be sustainable.


----------



## Daren Audio

SoftSynthLover99 said:


> Ok so hypothetically speaking, what if iZotope sold 3,000 licenses at $199 (nearly $600,000 in profit in a very short time frame).


Meanwhile during shareholders meeting...

Francisco Partners: _You made WHAT (in a short time frame)_*!?!?*
Izotope: YES!
Francisco Partners: When is the next scheduled, accidental glitch?
Izotope: YES!


----------



## Nico5

timprebble said:


> Very good point.
> It's important to remember that VC funded business does not rely on the same data as a normal* business. The ideal for VC funded business (to access more VC funding) is 'hypergrowth'
> 
> By "normal" I mean a business that regardless of scale, is profitable enough to be sustainable.


I might re-phrase “VC funded” into “capital investment funded”, but would overall agree that there are various different business strategies at play than with “normal” businesses.

To take a more educated guess at the strategy of the current owners of iZotope, NI et al, it’s interesting to glance at the news page of that investment company:






Francisco Partners - News







www.franciscopartners.com





I’m not a player in that field, but my guess is that their business model is 

* buy an established, but distressed company for cheap
* clean up the balance sheet
* create some short term good looking profit/loss numbers and/or customer growth numbers for a couple of years 
* merge or split acquired companies if it helps with balance sheets and profit/loss numbers
* sell resulting companies at a profit to different investors

This investment company is therefore very different from Gibson having bought Cakewalk or Fender buying Presonus (including Studio One) or Behringer buying TC Helicon or Ableton buying Cycling 74.

But it’s also not a VC, which typically denotes *startup* company funding capital. This is a play on established, but somewhat distressed companies.


----------



## Robert_G

Did i miss out on a deal?


----------



## Nico5

Robert_G said:


> Did i miss out on a deal?


it was much more than that: 😇🥵😱🤑


----------



## rrichard63

Nico5 said:


> I might re-phrase “VC funded” into “capital investment funded”, but would overall agree that there are various different business strategies at play than with “normal” businesses.
> 
> ...
> 
> But it’s also not a VC, which typically denotes *startup* company funding capital.


I think most people would call Francisco Partners's strategy "private equity" rather than "venture capital". But I'm not an expert here.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Robert_G said:


> Did i miss out on a deal?


Some in this thread call it a deal...others, a steal


----------



## Robert_G

MorphineNoir said:


> Some in this thread call it a deal...others, a steal


Call it? Or called it (as in past tense....meaning the deal/steal has been removed)?


----------



## MusiquedeReve

Robert_G said:


> Call it? Or called it (as in past tense....meaning the deal/steal has been removed)?


Well, they may have "called" it either/or in the thread but, unless they have changed their minds by the debate contained in this thread, they likely still "call" it such


----------



## Trash Panda

How have we made it 17 pages into this thread without a single critique of the legato in these plugins?


----------



## Soundhound

I got the $199 everything bundle, I guess was able to get it because I have RX9 Advanced? actually wound up $179 with the coupon code. I updated what I had (note: I redownloaded the izotope product portal after having some issues and that seemed to be better, though it was the same version I already had). It seems that the plugins I didn't have previously are listed in the Product Portal as "Full Trial". I haven't tried installing those yet, if izotope is in glitch mode at the moment maybe better to wait...

Anybody seeing this as well? And if so were you able to install without problems? I did get some serials in the email from izotope, maybe I have to register them in the portal or on their site...


----------



## alcorey

Soundhound said:


> I got the $199 everything bundle, I guess was able to get it because I have RX9 Advanced? actually wound up $179 with the coupon code. I updated what I had (note: I redownloaded the izotope product portal after having some issues and that seemed to be better, though it was the same version I already had). It seems that the plugins I didn't have previously are listed in the Product Portal as "Full Trial". I haven't tried installing those yet, if izotope is in glitch mode at the moment maybe better to wait...
> 
> Anybody seeing this as well? And if so were you able to install without problems? I did get some serials in the email from izotope, maybe I have to register them in the portal or on their site...


Yeah, you'll need to add the serial #s here - inside the red square click the + sign






and you'll get






copy and paste the serial # for each product individually and submit


----------



## José Herring

MorphineNoir said:


> Some in this thread call it a deal...others, a steal


......While others spotted it as too good to be real. 

Damn, someone needs to set a beat to those rhymes.


----------



## Soundhound

alcorey said:


> Yeah, you'll need to add the serial #s here - inside the red square click the + sign
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you'll get
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> copy and paste the serial # for each product individually and submitanks


Thanks! It worked for the Music Productions Suite 5 plugin bundle, but didn't recognize it for the (ex) Exponential reverbs?


----------



## alcorey

Soundhound said:


> Thanks! It worked for the Music Productions Suite 5 plugin bundle, but didn't recognize it for the (ex) Exponential reverbs?


You have to use ilok manager for those:
install and activate your Exponential Audio reverbs with iLok License Manager

and for the brainworx plug-ins you have to set up a Plug-in Alliance account and register them there

and for Celemony you have to got to celemony.com and register that one there


----------



## Harry

el-bo said:


> Of course! Except, in this context I was answering your argument as to where the responsibility for the issue should be placed. If you're going to argue that it's up to the owner of certain property or goods to make sure they are well-secured (or accept the possible consequences) then I'd say they're the same. The software owner needs to check for glitches/exploits, the home-owner needs to make sure they check doors and windows before leaving the house and the cashier needs to pay more attention when handing out change...otherwise, well...
> 
> And you're still saying this was a mislabelled price. The price and the qualifying conditions seem to have been correct.
> 
> 
> You seem to be defaulting to this being a question of law, rather than a personal responsibility position. I clearly differ.
> 
> One definition of stealing is: "To take without right or permission". Most here seem to be skating on the very thin-ice of a lack of proper validation (for qualifying products) as a tacit offer of permission. But given the terms of the deal were quite clearly-stated, along with the existence of this thread with almost everyone in agreement that this was not what was intended to be offered, then there was neither the right nor the permission. So...stealing?
> 
> 
> Whether it matters or not is for you and those you have influence over, to work out. Certainly, at least within the culture of the country in which I currently reside, the normal thing seems to pocket the money and keep schtum (I've literally been told that by someone who thought me insane to correct a waiter for undercharging me). Maybe that's just their perception.
> 
> But I'm not asking because I'm morally judging you. I'm asking to ascertain consistency. Your position seems to be that the onus lies with others to protect themselves against these potential issues, so I
> was curious to see if that's a position you hold as consistent, regardless of who you are dealing with. And if you're not consistent, I'd be curious to know what the difference would be that would determine who would benefit from your 'good' grace and who wouldn't.
> 
> But no...not a moral checklist; nor any pressure to answer.
> 
> 
> Subjective morality is a hard-sell. From a zoomed-in perspective, how we view this incident will no doubt (and evidently) be informed to a lesser or greater extent by how we each view Izotope, and how they conduct 'themselves'. But from a wider perspective, I'm suggesting that the way we act in this situation (Dare I say?) should be the way we act in every similar situation, whether it be a big 'faceless' music-corp such as Izotope or Waves; Pendle Poucher or Mike Greene; The Mom & Pop hardware store or the waiter who brings you your daily coffee.
> 
> And I couldn't disagree more with your notion that the "best" we can do is rely on the law to act as a safety-net for those whose social-behaviour is 'lacking' and leave everything up to the conscience of the individual. That maybe the reality, but it's certainly not the best. You're welcome to your fatalistic view of the world, of course. But maybe you're right. This thread is full of good people acting towards Izotope in a way they'd likely never act in other similar contexts.
> 
> As I said, I'm not trying to impose my morals on others and I'm not claiming I'm better than anyone else. Far from it, in fact. (Anyone who has any inkling of how I genuinely feel about the world and my place within it would tell you that was an absurd idea). I have no unblemished moral score-card, either. But we live and learn.
> 
> But maybe might os make right, in which case there are a small handful of us who have moral compasses that are on the fritz. Either way, I'm just gonna leave y'all to it





el-bo said:


> Thanks! Will respond tomorrow, if the thread is still open.


I really hope it isn't ...


----------



## Nico5

Harry said:


> I really hope it isn't ...


you can make it happen for yourself:


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

Harry said:


> I really hope it isn't ...


Maybe call it an accidental thread.



Nico5 said:


> you can make it happen for yourself:


Was looking for the ignore morality button, but seems its not there for everyone.


----------



## Braveheart

Soundhound said:


> I got the $199 everything bundle, I guess was able to get it because I have RX9 Advanced? actually wound up $179 with the coupon code. I updated what I had (note: I redownloaded the izotope product portal after having some issues and that seemed to be better, though it was the same version I already had). It seems that the plugins I didn't have previously are listed in the Product Portal as "Full Trial". I haven't tried installing those yet, if izotope is in glitch mode at the moment maybe better to wait...
> 
> Anybody seeing this as well? And if so were you able to install without problems? I did get some serials in the email from izotope, maybe I have to register them in the portal or on their site...


You’re entitled to this deal. Your morality still equals purity for everyone in this thread.


----------



## Fleer

Now for some atonement…


----------



## method1

This thread unbelievable...what's happening?


----------



## doctoremmet

method1 said:


> This thread unbelievable...what's happening?


The 2020s are happening


----------



## Crowe

method1 said:


> This thread unbelievable...what's happening?


Basically, this thread is Twitter.


----------



## kitekrazy

alcorey said:


> You have to use ilok manager for those:
> install and activate your Exponential Audio reverbs with iLok License Manager
> 
> and for the brainworx plug-ins you have to set up a Plug-in Alliance account and register them there
> 
> and for Celemony you have to got to celemony.com and register that one there


I often find this as a deterrent to go for these bundles. Some of that stuff was had for free or very low price. Plus the licensing it not consistent.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

Crowe said:


> Basically, this thread is Twitter.


----------



## Constant K

method1 said:


> This thread unbelievable...what's happening?


Verily I say unto thee, those who profit from the errors of the plugin corporations shall know the wrath of the butthurt bootlickers until such time as they are satisfied with appropriate upgrade paths for all. For weak are the men who suffer with GAS and and noble are the men who deny upgrade shenanigans. Let he who hath never entered a discount coupon throw the first shade, for the straight and narrow path leads to the inevitable advertised full price suffered only by fools. Let us not mock those who suffer such burden for the betterment of future development turnaround in the promised land of the next point upgrade, for they carry us all to lower cpu overheads and an abundance of new features. And it is they alone who will know the joy of the tax deductible for multimedia professionals.

Amen.


----------



## Michael Antrum




----------



## SupremeFist

doctoremmet said:


> The 2020s are happening


Can you stop them pls


----------



## José Herring

method1 said:


> This thread unbelievable...what's happening?


Not what I intended for this thread. I honestly thought it would be a discussion about iZotope and the direction the company might take. Instead I got a glitch in the matrix and dissertations on the underlying morality of the free enterprise system in the post machine age of information with its impact on the ethos of religion in the modern age.

But I am cool with that.


----------



## Braveheart

Seems like temptation of the Christ over virgin Izotope all over again


----------



## SonicMojo

I have a truckload of current iZotope Product and can find no way whatsoever to take advantage of this "everything" sale - looks like someone finally shut the doors.

I do see about 8 other "loyalty" offers in my account - I especially like the Ozone "Standard" Loyality offer for 99.00 when I already have Ozone 9 Advanced clearly activated. Are they assuming I am going to spend even more to step down from ADV to standard?

But no sign of any "everything" for 199 deals.

Cheers!

Sonic.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

SonicMojo said:


> I have a truckload of current iZotope Product and ….


And those fell from the truck too, right?


----------



## Daniel James

I am not sure what the idea is behind all of the sales after this merger but I have never been more nervous about being a user of any of the companies involved.

I hope whoever is running the new ship realizes that everything they are doing is coming across in a weird way and making everyone uneasy. We need more communication on whats going on, cause as other have said right now it almost looks like desperation or a going out of business sale.

Hopefully, they can clear up what is going on soon. Would be silly to pick something up that's not going to be supported in a short while.

-DJ


----------



## SupremeFist

To be somewhat on topic: I started deliberately trying to move away from Ozone (9 Advanced) when they announced the subs plan as I wanted to be more in control of my fate. I now feel I am getting significantly better results from my, er, "curated" mastering chain than I ever got from Ozone, but this might well be because I've just got better at that stuff in the mean time. Anyway, I was not tempted by the glitch because RX is not something I need, but I still find Tonal Balance Control 2 super useful. 🤘🏻


----------



## SonicMojo

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> And those fell from the truck too, right?


Not sure I am ctaching your drift but I have been a customer since 2006...


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

SonicMojo said:


> Not sure I am ctaching your drift but I have been a customer since 2006...


Hey im just trying to find the rat here who works for izotope and „implemented“ the glitch. I have a strong guess, but wait now to get bribed to keep it hidden.


----------



## SonicMojo

Looks like I need to read more on this thread 

S


----------



## fakemaxwell

Daniel James said:


> I am not sure what the idea is behind all of the sales after this merger but I have never been more nervous about being a user of any of the companies involved.


In the past, when a company was bought out by a private equity firm, it didn't quite work out as a boon for the consumer...


----------



## SupremeFist

fakemaxwell said:


> In the past, when a company was bought out by a private equity firm, it didn't quite work out as a boon for the consumer...


I'm old enough to remember the time before "corporate raiders" were rebranded as "private equity".


----------



## doctoremmet

SupremeFist said:


> I'm old enough to remember the time before "corporate raiders" were rebranded as "private equity".


I have a feeling we both watched education materials like Wallstreet back in the day


----------



## doctoremmet

Back when greed, for lack of a better word, was deemed good.


----------



## method1

José Herring said:


> Not what I intended for this thread. I honestly thought it would be a discussion about iZotope and the direction the company might take. Instead I got a glitch in the matrix and dissertations on the underlying morality of the free enterprise system in the post machine age of information with its impact on the ethos of religion in the modern age.
> 
> But I am cool with that.


Not to worry, apparently after this thread Izotope developed a new XenForo de-noising plugin.


----------



## Thundercat

davidanthony said:


> Erm, I think this one is directed at me. I'm sorry you felt that way, but I'd just like to point out that you were the one who replied to my response to Mark, stating that you "disagree" and then proceeded to make a bunch of inaccurate legal statements, so you kind of brought this on yourself. In the future I'd consider not inviting debates if you don't want to deal with the outcome...


I could not make anything but inaccurate legal statements because I am not a lawyer, just a dumb consumer. However, I appreciate your point of view and I apologize for being rude.

Yeah this thread's a little bit like potato chips...

Thanks,

Mike


----------



## SoftSynthLover99

Daniel James said:


> I am not sure what the idea is behind all of the sales after this merger but I have never been more nervous about being a user of any of the companies involved.
> 
> I hope whoever is running the new ship realizes that everything they are doing is coming across in a weird way and making everyone uneasy. We need more communication on whats going on, cause as other have said right now it almost looks like desperation or a going out of business sale.
> 
> Hopefully, they can clear up what is going on soon. Would be silly to pick something up that's not going to be supported in a short while.
> 
> -DJ


I think the music production landscape is changing dramatically, and perhaps for the better. PA, iZotope and Native Instruments are likely not going anywhere, but the way they are pricing things moving forward suggest a dramatic shift from the old model ($150-$349 for a single plugin) to something more sustainable that makes sense in 2022. Like the forever $29 offer from PA which gets you any new plugin for $1 ($30.99).

I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a ”Soundwide Everything Bundle” for $599 or more a year which includes all iZotope, Native Instruments and Plugin Alliance products. I think this is more likely than Komplete 14 Ultimate Collector’s etc, which I also think will have a subscription option when it releases.

Definitely hope Soundwide starts to show a clear direction for these companies so we can stop wondering what’s really going on.


----------



## Thundercat

el-bo said:


> I suppose coming out on the attack is one way to assuage your aforementioned guilt
> 
> This post's got more fucking 'COPE' than Julian
> 
> 
> 
> And it's not about protecting Izotope. It's about trying to protect a principle. If you have no sympathy for Izotope, then I already offered more close-to-home examples that might give you pause to reconsider your position. Maybe not, though.



I'm not sure who has been doing the attacking here? You seem to have the whole thing locked up into a nice tidy "one-size-fits-all determination", or more accurately, "MY-size-fits-all" morality, and you have not stopped hammering this thread since its inception.

It never was black or white or this thread would not be at 18 pages now. Yours is not the only "right" or correct view on this, and morality does not belong to you, no matter how hard you try to force it on all of us. And you have been defending your position with wild analogies of ripping off small stores, which I feel is offensive to even compare the situation. No one here would do that.

Izotope is NOT a small developer; they have the combined resources of NI and themselves, with who knows how many developers and marketers. It's definitely not a mom and pop store, and while I agree it is still not moral to steal from anyone regardless of how rich they might be, even framing this as stealing, which you have done now many times, is just your opinion. I paid money for a product that I installed and it works. Yes they listed prerequisites to buy it, which I was not certain I had, but the bundle worked. So I am immoral and a criminal and a thief because I installed something I paid for and it works?

How does that make me a criminal or immoral? In your eyes, I will always be 24601 I suppose. But I just had to buy that Izotope loaf of bread to feed my family. 18 pages in prison is too long a sentence.

And let's not forget, as many have stated this is likely a marketing move. And they can revoke the licenses at will. So if they are not going to do that, they are condoning it. If they lost so much money on the deal as you presuppose, they would certainly revoke the licenses.

Analogies are wonderful, until they aren't. Changing the circumstance to make your point doesn't make your point valid for the original circumstance. It just doesn't. It makes your point look stronger, but is it really stronger in another context?

It's OK, I respect your opinion, and if you felt I attacked you, I do apologize; it was not my intention to be unkind. But I do not apologize for calling you out on playing God here. 

And yes, I felt guilty and angry at all the gunslinging by you, I took it onboard and was really down and depressed until I listened to MY heart and my thoughts and I realized I'm giving away my power.

I wish you peace, as I stated before, I like your posts and perspectives most of the time.

Mike


----------



## Hendrixon




----------



## Alchemedia




----------



## Trash Panda

If anyone missed out on the weekend deal/glitch/fire sale, this may be relevant to your interests.


----------



## Constant K

Trash Panda said:


> If anyone missed out on the weekend deal/glitch/fire sale, this may be relevant to your interests.



This guy gambled and won. You have to respect that.


----------



## Alchemedia

This reminds me of the basic advert/marketing concept: people want things they can't have. In the '80's a major brewery released a new beer, and their tagline was "Classic Beer. The best beer you ever had, if you can find it." Of course it was sold out everywhere because they intentionally limited distribution to create a buzz and artificial demand. 

PS Got Milk?


----------



## vitocorleone123

$300 and I could’ve scored this and the Arturia crossgrade and gotten myself another… 100 plugins or whatever, 3 or 4 of which I’d have used. 

Putting that money toward hardware, I think. Maybe the LXR-02.


----------



## easyrider

Woop, Buying more plugins you don't need and then not using them and then in a few months they are out of date and then you upgrade again!


----------



## lp59burst

easyrider said:


> Woop, Buying more plugins you don't need and then not using them and then in a few months they are out of date and then you upgrade again!


Exactly... this is my hobby. Spend more time researching and pondering my choices than actually doing anything with those choices once they've been made.


----------



## Fleer

lp59burst said:


> Exactly... this is my hobby. Spend more time reasearching and pondering my choices than actually doing anything with those choices once they've been made.


That’s me!


----------



## Constant K

easyrider said:


> Woop, Buying more plugins you don't need and then not using them and then in a few months they are out of date and then you upgrade again!


In two years or so when you are surrounded by more pedals then you possibly have room to store and when you are spending all of your time flipping pedals on reverb, you'll say pretty much the same thing to yourself about hardware, take yourself off the analog man waiting list, swear off all hardware and convert back to software, then evangelise to anyone you can find about how good we all have it with the software at our disposal.

The cycle of GAS.

It would be tragic if it weren't so comical. Particularly because you are especially legendary on all of the interweb GAS forums as someone who literally partook in every deal going and then spent all their time day trading their plugins away for years.

I'm glad you have started your hardware journey because hardware has unique benefits for sure but lets face it everyone knows where this is heading for you, lol. It is like someone treating their cocaine withdrawal with heroin...

Everyone who abused this glitch did the right thing economically. You can't lose with a glitch like this.

Are you going to hell?

Sure. But your tracks will now be artifact freeeeeee!


----------



## doctoremmet

Constant K said:


> In two years or so when you are surrounded by more pedals then you possibly have room to store and when you are spending all of your time flipping pedals on reverb, you'll say pretty much the same thing to yourself abut hardware, take yourself off the analog man waiting list, swear off all hardware and convert back to software, then evangelise to anyone you can find about how good we all have it with the software at our disposal.
> 
> The cycle of GAS.
> 
> It would be tragic if it weren't so comical. Particularly because you are especially legendary on all of the interweb GAS forums as someone who literally partook in every deal going and then spent all their time day trading their plugins away for years.
> 
> I'm glad you have started your hardware journey because hardware has unique benefits for sure but lets face it everyone knows where this is heading for you, lol. It is like someone treating their cocaine withdrawal with heroin...
> 
> Everyone who abused this glitch did the right thing economically. You can't lose with a glitch like this.
> 
> Are you going to hell?
> 
> Sure. But your tracks will now be artifact freeeeeee!


Haha this. Ever noticed how converted now-non-smokers who used to smoke a pack a day are the worst kind of preachy?


----------



## Crowe

doctoremmet said:


> Haha this. Ever noticed how converted now-non-smokers who used to smoke a pack a day are the worst kind of preachy?


I think that depends on one's sense of self-importance. I'd never assume I'm a suitable role model for anyone. Luckily I'm surrounded by other ex-smokers who all generally mind their own business.

Even as an ex-smoker, preachy ex-smokers annoy me something fierce.


----------



## easyrider

Constant K said:


> In two years or so when you are surrounded by more pedals then you possibly have room to store and when you are spending all of your time flipping pedals on reverb, you'll say pretty much the same thing to yourself abut hardware, take yourself off the analog man waiting list, swear off all hardware and convert back to software, then evangelise to anyone you can find about how good we all have it with the software at our disposal.
> 
> The cycle of GAS.
> 
> It would be tragic if it weren't so comical. Particularly because you are especially legendary on all of the interweb GAS forums as someone who literally partook in every deal going and then spent all their time day trading their plugins away for years.
> 
> I'm glad you have started your hardware journey because hardware has unique benefits for sure but lets face it everyone knows where this is heading for you, lol. It is like someone treating their cocaine withdrawal with heroin...
> 
> Everyone who abused this glitch did the right thing economically. You can't lose with a glitch like this.
> 
> Are you going to hell?
> 
> Sure. But your tracks will now be artifact freeeeeee!


No, the pedal board is complete….and BTW…I bought the Thorpy FX The boneyard Fuzz Pedal for £299…..two days later I was offered $2000 for it…..did I sell it no…but hardware does,when bought right, increase in value….😜👍

I won’t even get the Arturia FX Collection 3 update for €69….I’m bored of the endless cycle of updates…

Izotope won’t get another penny from me….after the way they edged their bets by taking the piss out of their customers with the Sub, and exclusive products for said sub….once people voted with their wallets and complained to support they come grovelling back with a new GUI for N4 and we promise to give new two new updates….pathetic….

Ik multimedia have gone from my system too…the install for syntronik and sampletank is a joke…

I was glad I was able to sell some on though before they become obsolete.


My plugin game is over…the constant search for a deal….it’s all disguised subscription….FX collection 3…..oooooo 3 new plugins…….Music production suite 5 from 4.1


Total studio max 3.5 then 4….then groupbuys for T racks 5…..when we all know they will be redundant plugins in a couple of months with T Racks 6 making your account a Digital graveyard of v5 plugins…..

it’s all so boring….and BTW…my pedal board and amps smoke Amplitube 5 in terms of tone….I could never go back to amp sims now and wonder why I was buying them in the first place….I must have been depressed And filling the void of my existence with the constant need to checkout and get the mini buzz of I’ve just bought a new plug for 29….it sounds like ass but I might use it one day mentality…🤔😂


----------



## Eptesicus

Trash Panda said:


> If anyone missed out on the weekend deal/glitch/fire sale, this may be relevant to your interests.




Still works by the way.


----------



## easyrider

doctoremmet said:


> Haha this. Ever noticed how converted now-non-smokers who used to smoke a pack a day are the worst kind of preachy?


Smoking is a bad idea….But plug in a guitar to a handmade Fuzz through a 1970 Fender Valve is not….it’s fecking awesome!

At 15 I was learning guitar and now years later I’m back having been lost with digital dirge….😂


----------



## jonnybutter

Izotope is kind of a mess. Their plugs are cool, some of them. But I often can’t figure out what’s going on w/some aspect of authorization or content, and so just pass. I also had a plug of theirs that I had used for years suddenly refuse to scan (without paying again) and no tech support succeeded in fixing it. Adios izotope. It’s been fun


----------



## easyrider

jonnybutter said:


> Izotope is kind of a mess. Their plugs are cool, some of them. But I often can’t figure out what’s going on w/some aspect of authorization or content, and so just pass. I also had a plug of theirs that I had used for years suddenly refuse to scan (without paying again) and no tech support succeeded in fixing it. Adios izotope. It’s been fun


Same here…I’ll use what I have in MPS 3….oh wait I have a lot of the plugins already included in MPS5!

😂


----------



## Constant K

easyrider said:


> it’s all so boring….and BTW…my pedal board and amps smoke Amplitube 5 in terms of tone….I could never go back to amp sims now and wonder why I was buying them in the first place….I must have been depressed And filling the void of my existence with the constant need to checkout and get the mini buzz of I’ve just bought a new plug for 29….it sounds like ass but I might use it one day mentality…🤔😂


Bruh you don't even get to pedalboard endgame until you buy your first chase bliss...

Now if this were a regular Joe I would estimate that would be between 2-5 years away. But you... short odds on 6 months to a year. There's only one path from there; (Darth Vader voice)


Spoiler



EURORACK!



Right now easyrider is thinking "I don't give a fuck about that, lol!".

We all know how this ends dude. Right now you have just left Hobbiton...

When you return to Hobbiton a very different Hobbit we'll talk again.

Enjoy your finished board...


----------



## Eptesicus

did everyone get stutter edit 2? didnt seem to get a key for that.


----------



## easyrider

Constant K said:


> Bruh you don't even get to pedalboard endgame until you buy your first chase bliss...
> 
> Now if this were a regular Joe I would estimate that would be between 2-5 years away. But you... short odds on 6 months to a year. There's only one path from there; (Darth Vader voice)
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> EURORACK!



I don’t want more digital on my board…and I don’t want a pedal called MOOD either 😂

The ONLY thing digital is my DigiTech Hardwire RV-7 Stereo Reverb


Constant K said:


> Right now easyrider is thinking "I don't give a fuck about that, lol!".
> 
> 
> We all know how this ends dude. Right now you have just left Hobbiton...
> 
> When you return to Hobbiton a very different Hobbit we'll talk again.
> 
> Enjoy your finished board...


----------



## Jamie Hunter

José Herring said:


> So Izotope is practically giving their stuff away. Which has me actually a little worried. I've invested a bunch in their stuff over the years. Not even sure why other than it just kind of appealed to me. It's practically all I use for mastering. Now they're giving all their stuff away in a major sale for the price of what it usually cost me to upgrade Ozone... Is this the end of the company? Smacks of a "going out of business" sale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iZotope Loyalty Deals
> 
> 
> View current deals on iZotope products and access savings on audio plug-ins for mixing, mastering, audio restoration, and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.izotope.com


I have a feeling it's because they are going down the subscription route and will eventually stop selling perpetual licence's in the future. They also seem to offer new products at an introductory price before going up to the RRP., Neutron 4 (just released) is currently 50% off. This shows that RRP is kind of a scam, I have never paid full price for any iZotope products as they are nearly constantly on sale, seem to be following Waves Audio sale model!


----------



## Constant K

easyrider said:


> I don’t want more digital on my board…and I don’t want a pedal called MOOD either 😂
> 
> The ONLY thing digital is my DigiTech Hardwire RV-7 Stereo Reverb


I've seen it all over the usual forums already bro. Nice beginner board.

Enjoy the journey.


----------



## easyrider

Jamie Hunter said:


> I have a feeling it's because they are going down the subscription route and will eventually stop selling perpetual licence's in the future. They also seem to offer new products at an introductory price before going up to the RRP., Neutron 4 (just released) is currently 50% off. This shows that RRP is kind of a scam, I have never paid full price for any iZotope products as they are nearly constantly on sale, seem to be following Waves Audio sale model!


One thing going for Izotope is the licence transfer process is quick and easy and free.


----------



## easyrider

Constant K said:


> I've seen it all over the usual forums already bro. Nice beginner board.
> 
> Enjoy the journey.


That Flanger is 40 years old….amazing! 🤓


----------



## Constant K

easyrider said:


> That Flanger is 40 years old….amazing! 🤓


Already bragging about your acquisition value. Incredible.

It's like watching someone fall off a skyscraper in slow motion.


----------



## Eptesicus

Mike Greene said:


> Funny timing, I was installing software on my new Mac Studio a few days ago and since it's on Monterey, I figured this was a good time to go ahead and upgrade RX6. I saw this deal on my upgrades page and snapped it up, since I also needed to upgrade Ozone.
> 
> In theory I got lucky, but in a way, so did iZotope. Years ago, they convinced me to upgrade RX to RX Advanced for a really low price. But then ... every time I upgrade RX, it's $199 instead of $99. I'm not so sure I've ever used any of the "Advanced" features of RX, but they got an extra hundred bucks out of me each time I'd update. As others have said, there's a sort of subscription aspect to this and they hooked me into a pricier subscription when all I actually need is the basic De-Noise element. Who knows what they'll charge me when I need to upgrade this everything bundle. More than $99, that's for sure.
> 
> As a developer myself, I've had a couple similar glitches where people got better deals than they should have. I'm annoyed with myself about them, but at the same time, I think I came out ahead overall. It's software downloads, and electrons are cheap, so it's not like I _lost_ money. My guess is iZotope is similarly annoyed, but kinda happy about it.



Yep, when it comes to software, the actual loss is almost nothing. A priciing mistake on actual physical product where much of the cost to the consumer is the actual manufacturing cost could absolutely destroy a company. Though with physical/shipped products, a company has the opportunity to realise and just not send it. With automated license deliveries....not so much. But that works both ways. For the consumer once you press buy on a digital license, that is it. No takesies backsies, and to be honest that should work both ways.

It is likely 99% of the people who bought this, would never have bought it if it wasnt $199 so they likely have made a lot more money in the long run.

I guess the only negative is the percpetion of devalued products. However, the way most VST developers treat their prices with constant massive sales kind of highlights how little most of them care about that anyway.


----------



## easyrider

Constant K said:


> Already bragging about your accusation value. Incredible.
> 
> It's like watching someone fall off a skyscraper in slow motion.


My board obviously strikes a nerve….The story behind that pedal…is pretty cool tbh…bought it used and the guy who I bought it off sent me a pic of himself playing in the Band using it in the early 80s….Nice note came with it too….it’s a bit of history and mojo…

But I’m not bragging about it…but if you think I am then so be it….in the words of the artic monkeys…..”I can’t be arsed to carry on in this debate”

Enjoy your updates….😂👍❤️


----------



## Bman70

Eptesicus said:


> Still works by the way.


Not at Thomann where that guy got it, they removed the link. But I don’t get how this was happening at third party sites. I can see iZotope messing up their own launch page, but not a glitch propagating to multiple merchants.


----------



## easyrider

Eptesicus said:


> I guess the only negative is the percpetion of devalued products. However, the way most VST developers treat their prices with constant massive sales kind of highlights how little most of them care about that anyway.


The market is saturated….they have no choice in the matter….


----------



## Constant K

easyrider said:


> My board obviously strikes a nerve….


You are not the first person to fall down a rabbit hole.

You used to brag about every single software bargain you acquired and every penny you pinched. Now you already have an amusing anecdote about an unbelievable "bargain" you've acquired. I shudder to think what your wishlists look like right now.

At the end of the day if you can afford it there is zero harm in it. Ultimately the only thing you will lose is time. Forum dwell, cop some gear, forum dwell, cop some gear...

If you were to ask for some advice I would tell you to limit your acquisitions to one piece every six months and only ever buy pieces that are required upgrades. But you didn't ask.

Enjoy it. I live for gear. But don't forget to make some music. God knows I forget. ☮️


----------



## Technostica

Bman70 said:


> Not at Thomann where that guy got it, they removed the link. But I don’t get how this was happening at third party sites. I can see iZotope messing up their own launch page, but not a glitch propagating to multiple merchants.


Izotope always sell crossgrades and upgrades via third parties.
This is just another one and the $200 price isn’t exceptional by their standards as the prerequisite is high value.


----------



## Thundercat

Re hardware vs software, I like to DIY my own gear too - which is every bit as worse GAS as software GAS. I’ve got a couple kits to make a UA76 compressor and the originals use a UTC HA100X transformer. A few years ago I bought a pair for $700.

Now those transformers are going for $700 each! I guess that’s one good thing about vintage hardware; it can go up in value.

I have yet to assemble that UA76 tho…


----------



## Eptesicus

Eptesicus said:


> did everyone get stutter edit 2? didnt seem to get a key for that.



Anyone?

I didn't get a seperate key for this, and it looks like it used to be part of music production suite 4.1, but is not part of 5 so could be an oversight.


----------



## LearningToCompose:)

Nico5 said:


> Is it a genuine innocent mistake or a sneaky marketing AB test, or a devilishly brilliant "fomo" experiment to quickly milk money from people who would otherwise never have parted with that money? Am I being an a-hole to "take advantage" or am I being "smart with my limited funds" or am I a dupe who's falling for a cheap psychology trick?
> Are they innocently incompetent or willfully and abusively confusing in their pricing strategy?
> Is my money going to a small group of people trying to eek out a living or to a stone-cold-hearted incredibly wealthy investor group, that actively tries to milk me for everything they can?
> Do I want to get even more deeply into their eco-system, while I'm actually considering to get out entirely?
> Would buying the big package now lock me into much more expensive upgrades of the big package forever? (e.g. I've never gone to NI Komplete Ultimate or Steinberg Nuendo because I was afraid, that it would lock me into those higher priced upgrade paths forever (compared to Komplete regular and Cubase).
> Is the stuff I don't already have even worth the lowest possible "glitch" price for my future work flow needs? (Arguably there were 3 different pricing levels of "glitch").


But at the end of the day, the reasoning behind the sale is all speculation.
To me the most likely outcome is that it was an error.
Motivation matters a lot to me.
Had I clicked the link and bought the deal without reading the tread, not aware that there might be something wrong, I wouldn't have known that I was possibly taking advantage of an error.
But after reading the thread, the high possibility of the deal being an error would make it wrong to go through with the purchase.
I should then contact Izotope for some clarification.
As a relativist I hope you won't feel judged, afterall it should just be my "taste".


----------



## Fleer

A brother from another forum confirmed iZotope’s reaction that it was a glitch and that serials would not be rescinded.


----------



## Constant K

Fleer said:


> A brother from another forum confirmed iZotope’s reaction that it was a glitch and that serials would not be rescinded.


I think European consumer law would probably not allow them to anyway or at least make it a massive hassle.


----------



## easyrider

Constant K said:


> Software is dirt cheap tho, this thread is case in point to that. Hardware can ruin you, lol.


All those $29 deals add up….


----------



## tmhuud

21 pages, has anyone figured out what IS happening?


----------



## ManicMiner

Jamie Hunter said:


> I have a feeling it's because they are going down the subscription route and will eventually stop selling perpetual licence's in the future.


I don't think subscription will work for Izotope like it has worked for Adobe. Trouble is Izotope don't have unique enough plugins to pull that off. (RX, Ozone workflow maybe). It worked for Adobe because nothing could touch Photoshop or After Effects. Happily now Photoshop and AE clones are getting very close.
If I ditch all my Izotope stuff, I could find competitive alternatives easily.


----------



## Constant K

easyrider said:


> I only have 12 guitars so I curbed my GAS on them….it can be done….😂


Lul. Godspeed Hombre.

My whole point is your road to Damascus conversion was very recent. I know because I am a forum dweller (someone who lives on forums...) and I read your postings, cause you're on all the Goddamn forums! So you know don't charge into a software thread and start spewing "All you software wankers enjoy your updates! Laters!" it's... not helpful to say the least. Especially when you are only starting down this rabbit hole and not 6 months ago you were all about the software bargains. And I mean you really were about those bargains fam.

I agree that HW is great. I think it's great that you are excited about it. But cool down, maybe? Just a thought.


----------



## Thundercat

Fleer said:


> A brother from another forum confirmed iZotope’s reaction that it was a glitch and that serials would not be rescinded.


And if it was a marketing tactic, would they have said the truth anyway?


----------



## easyrider

Constant K said:


> Lul. Godspeed Hombre.
> 
> My whole point is your road to Damascus conversion was very recent. I know because I am a forum dweller (someone who lives on forums...) and I read your postings, cause you're on all the Goddamn forums! So you know don't charge into a software thread and start spewing "All you software wankers enjoy your updates! Laters!" it's... not helpful to say the least. Especially when you are only starting down this rabbit hole and not 6 months ago you were all about the software bargains. And I mean you really were about those bargains fam.
> 
> I agree that HW is great. I think it's great that you are excited about it. But cool down, maybe? Just a thought.


Frank Zappa once said does humour belong in music….

Easyrider once said Does humour belong in forums…



> Woop, Buying more plugins you don't need and then not using them and then in a few months they are out of date and then you upgrade again!



My post was joke….🤭


----------



## Thundercat

An unemployed California gas station manager who was fired after mistakenly setting prices at 69 cents is trying to pay back $20,000 in losses to his former bosses

A California gas station manager lost his job after mistakenly setting a gas price at 69 cents per gallon.
John Szczecina's sister set up a GoFundMe that raised more than $20,000 to repay the station owners.
"Even though it cost me my job, it's fine. Because the truth is, you know, it's my fault," Szczecina said.
Former Shell gas station manager John Szczecina is trying to pay back his former employer, after mistakenly pricing premium gas as low as 69 cents a gallon .

Szczecina's Shell station in Rancho Cordova , California , flooded with customers when he mistakenly misplaced a decimal on $6.99 per gallon on premium gas to 69 cents, according to CBS Sacrament

Before the mistake was fixed several hours later, customers had flocked to the station to take advantage of the unintentional deal amid rising gas prices. The mistake reportedly cost the gas station $20,000 in sales, according to Fortune .

"I immediately thought we had gotten robbed and was scared that something terrible had happened to the cashiers," Szczecina, who later lost his job , told https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/16/gas-station-california-fired-price/ (Washington Post). "Even though it cost me my job, it's fine. Because the truth is, you know, it's my fault."

With the help of friends and family, the former manager is now trying to pay back the Shell gas station, which is reportedly independently owned . A person who said they are Szczecina's sister, Paula Jackson, set up a https://www.gofundme.com/f/mgr-owes-16000-in-69-cent-glitch-rancho-cordova?qid=c64c844ad9e15c3afa3195c569cd613e (GoFundMe)which raised more than enough money to cover the damage. Szczecina and his sister are making arrangements to return the money to Shell.

"He doesn't have to pay it back," Jackson told the Washington Post. "But just the fact that he is doing it and wants to do it shows a lot of character and honesty and responsibility, and I'm really proud of him for that."

The GoFundMe easily surpassed its goal, raising $24,087.

"We want to thank you all for your encouraging words and financial support! We have made our goal and now are in the process of arranging the return of the money," the page said Friday. "We appreciate all of you kind and generous people!"

Read the original article on Insider


----------



## SonicMojo

Eptesicus said:


> I didn't get a seperate key for this, and it looks like it used to be part of music production suite 4.1, but is not part of 5 so could be an oversight.


I just sent in a ticket on this yesterday - I see this listed in my iZotope account - but cannot see how to install or activate. No key listed and I do not have MP Suite 4.1 - only 4.0.

Sonic.


----------



## Braveheart

Thundercat said:


> An unemployed California gas station manager who was fired after mistakenly setting prices at 69 cents is trying to pay back $20,000 in losses to his former bosses
> 
> A California gas station manager lost his job after mistakenly setting a gas price at 69 cents per gallon.
> John Szczecina's sister set up a GoFundMe that raised more than $20,000 to repay the station owners.
> "Even though it cost me my job, it's fine. Because the truth is, you know, it's my fault," Szczecina said.
> Former Shell gas station manager John Szczecina is trying to pay back his former employer, after mistakenly pricing premium gas as low as 69 cents a gallon .
> 
> Szczecina's Shell station in Rancho Cordova , California , flooded with customers when he mistakenly misplaced a decimal on $6.99 per gallon on premium gas to 69 cents, according to CBS Sacrament
> 
> Before the mistake was fixed several hours later, customers had flocked to the station to take advantage of the unintentional deal amid rising gas prices. The mistake reportedly cost the gas station $20,000 in sales, according to Fortune .
> 
> "I immediately thought we had gotten robbed and was scared that something terrible had happened to the cashiers," Szczecina, who later lost his job , told https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/16/gas-station-california-fired-price/ (Washington Post). "Even though it cost me my job, it's fine. Because the truth is, you know, it's my fault."
> 
> With the help of friends and family, the former manager is now trying to pay back the Shell gas station, which is reportedly independently owned . A person who said they are Szczecina's sister, Paula Jackson, set up a https://www.gofundme.com/f/mgr-owes-16000-in-69-cent-glitch-rancho-cordova?qid=c64c844ad9e15c3afa3195c569cd613e (GoFundMe)which raised more than enough money to cover the damage. Szczecina and his sister are making arrangements to return the money to Shell.
> 
> "He doesn't have to pay it back," Jackson told the Washington Post. "But just the fact that he is doing it and wants to do it shows a lot of character and honesty and responsibility, and I'm really proud of him for that."
> 
> The GoFundMe easily surpassed its goal, raising $24,087.
> 
> "We want to thank you all for your encouraging words and financial support! We have made our goal and now are in the process of arranging the return of the money," the page said Friday. "We appreciate all of you kind and generous people!"
> 
> Read the original article on Insider


We’re always talking about gas here. Very relevant…


----------



## Thundercat

Braveheart said:


> We’re always talking about gas here. Very relevant…


I thought the story of a glitch sale might have been relevant 😂

And we always talk about GAS so…


----------



## el-bo

Mike Greene said:


> You're missing Sarah's point, though. The hypothetical you proposed: _"resulted in zero money gained and thousands of licenses lost"_ is not what happened. iZotope made a _lot_ of money on this, and they didn't lose any licenses, they _sold_ licenses. Hence the pile of money they just made. (And the resulting suspicions this may have been intentional.)


Maybe I am missing Sarah's point. Perhaps either of you might clear up my misunderstanding.

The hypothetical I posed is an alternate situation, in which users didn't get the licenses for less...they got them for free. My contention is that, despite the after-the-fact shoe-horning in of it being a win for Izotope, the same people who took advantage of this glitch would have done exactly the same thing if it resulted in absolute loss for Izotope.

At various points in the thread, I've tried expanding the conversation to look past Izotope, who are evidently not customer favourites. I'm curious how a thread might've looked had someone passed 'round a code or pointed out a glitch that had zeroed the cost of the entire inventory of a particular small developer, or the owner of this forum.

Now you've made it clear, if I've not misunderstood, that as long as you're in profit you've got nothing to complain about. Great! But I don't think you'd feel the same if you lost thousands of license to a glitch, for no compensation at all.




Mike Greene said:


> Not only that, they're going to _keep_ making money on those licenses, since iZotope charges handsomely for yearly updates, and the vast majority of people who bought this bundle are going to pay an update/upgrade price at some point. So if they sold these bundles too cheap (intentionally or accidentally), they're still going to reap years of residual income from those sales.


It might seem obvious to some that there's no way this could be anything but a win for izotope. But without someone confirming this, maybe we shouldn't assume. Maybe they have no interest in this kind of thing happening, regardless of the outcome. Maybe there're a few Izotope employees currently in hot-water, for letting such a thing happen. Who knows?

Edited, to add: Also, given Izotope's no-quibble, no-cost license-transfer policy (And yes, they allowed me to split and sell various parts of a bundle), there'll be people who will stand to profit off of selling the licenses. In these cases, Izotope definitely lose i.e The licenses that would've been bought by the buyer.


----------



## Constant K

It was a glitch. Glitches happen.

I took advantage of the glitch. Does that make me a bad person. Sure if you want it to.

Remember the video of the two monkeys who each got a piece of cucumber, but then they gave one and only one a grape instead of cucumber and the one who was left with the cucumber freaked out?

That's all that's happening here and it's understandable. If you are invested in iZotope and paid RRP or regular sale price and then a bunch of Johnny come lately's come along and get it all for next to nothing.. well you get this thread. Even if you're not invested in izotope and you don't want anything to do with them you could still be pissed off at the outcome. It's not right! Morally wrong!

Angry monkeys with cucumber and happy monkeys with grape. Life is just a bunch of random shit that happens. What are you gonna do? Think about the monkey who got the cucumber or the monkey who got the grape? Don't bother. It was a glitch. People took advantage of a random glitch. There isn't a debate about stealing, looting, the consequences for the employee responsible for the glitch, izotopes share price or anything else. Unless you want there to be.


----------



## Robert_G

Lets remember that iZotope aint got nothin on glitch sales compared to 8Dio. With 8Dio, glitch sales are a scheduled monthly event.


----------



## easyrider

I’ll quite happily exploit any glitch….if I was buying plugins…The fact is Izotope are in a mess…with all the messing about and games they have been playing with customers….doing U Turns and begging people to come back to them after taking the piss out of them….I’m not surprised this disorganised nonsense left a gaping whole in their online shop people could exploit…..even at 199 for the everything bundle and with code 179 it will all be out of date in a few months so I just see things like this as a disguised subscription…

Izotope won’t get another bean from me….regardless of what daft sale they have…

got an email from them saying buy Neutron 4 for 149…..then days later got an email saying buy Neutron 4 for 99…

Izotope are like a desperate needy girlfriend or a turd that won’t flush depending on how you look at it.😂


----------



## easyrider

They are still selling EOL Reverbs too that doesn’t sit well with me…


----------



## Eptesicus

SonicMojo said:


> I just sent in a ticket on this yesterday - I see this listed in my iZotope account - but cannot see how to install or activate. No key listed and I do not have MP Suite 4.1 - only 4.0.
> 
> Sonic.



Thanks. Might not just be me then. It is advertsied as being part of the everything bundle, and was part of Music Production Suite 4. However i think they forgot it was not included in MP 5 and therefore listed it as included in the everything bundle still.


----------



## Trash Panda

easyrider said:


> They are still selling EOL Reverbs too that doesn’t sit well with me…


They’re not EOL anymore. Izotope has been walking back quite a bit of unpopular decisions lately (no more subscription only, updating the EA reverbs, etc.).


----------



## badabing

I've noticed that quite a few posts in this thread indicate that people are equating criticism of their actions with a judgement of their entire character. It is possible for people who aren't "bad" to do something immoral or amoral; we are all far too complex to be judged in our entirety based on any single action. In fact christian teachings advise separation of the "sin" from the "sinner", I'm sure other religions have versions of this. Anyway, it might take some of the heat out of the arguments here to think of things that way.


----------



## Constant K

easyrider said:


> I’ll quite happily exploit any glitch….if I was buying plugins…The fact is Izotope are in a mess…with all the messing about and games they have been playing with customers….doing U Turns and begging people to come back to them after taking the piss out of them….I’m not surprised this disorganised nonsense left a gaping whole in their online shop people could exploit…..even at 199 for the everything bundle and with code 179 it will all be out of date in a few months so I just see things like this as a disguised subscription…
> 
> Izotope won’t get another bean from me….regardless of what daft sale they have…
> 
> got an email from them saying buy Neutron 4 for 149…..then days later got an email saying buy Neutron 4 for 99…
> 
> Izotope are like a desperate needy girlfriend or a turd that won’t flush depending on how you look at it.😂


I agree the endless updating is tiresome it is definitely a veil subscription service they are selling you. The last Ozone I had was 4? and I had alloy 1 and 2 never neutron, a bunch of other things (I love Iris since version 1 for example) so this was a no brainer for me cause I don't really do cyclic upgrades as you can see lol.

Yeah I wonder what new ownership is doing to them? They already seemed desperate before the merger IIRC, that could just be my bias tho. There's a lot to like about them and their tech but also weird design choices. I guess the marketing has to be aggressive to stay afloat. I honestly wish them the best but yeah I understand your frustration.


----------



## mobiuscog

Eptesicus said:


> Thanks. Might not just be me then. It is advertsied as being part of the everything bundle, and was part of Music Production Suite 4. However i think they forgot it was not included in MP 5 and therefore listed it as included in the everything bundle still.


I raised a ticket on Friday about this, and received an update today:


As for Stutter Edit 2, there was an issue with the codes being generated but you will now find a Stutter Edit 2 code within your account


----------



## easyrider

Trash Panda said:


> They’re not EOL anymore. Izotope has been walking back quite a bit of unpopular decisions lately (no more subscription only, updating the EA reverbs, etc.).


Said nothing planned for updates and M1 support …but the link no longer works….I can’t find anything on the site that Says Exponential Audio Reverbs like Nimbus and R4 will be M1 compatible.


----------



## Trash Panda

easyrider said:


> Said nothing planned for updates and M1 support …but the link no longer works….I can’t find anything on the site that Says Exponential Audio Reverbs like Nimbus and R4 will be M1 compatible.





https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us/articles/6658082572049-iZotope-Compatibility-with-Apple-silicon



Nimbus/Phoenix and R2/R4 are not specifically called out, so it might only be the most recent generation reverbs (Symphony/Stratus) getting M1 compatibility, but since they’re all in the same general framework, I doubt the older EA reverbs will get left behind unless they stop being money makers.


----------



## Mike Greene

el-bo said:


> The hypothetical I posed is an alternate situation, in which users didn't get the licenses for less...they got them for free.


But that's not the situation here, so it's not a question I'm interested in.


----------



## easyrider

Trash Panda said:


> https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us/articles/6658082572049-iZotope-Compatibility-with-Apple-silicon
> 
> 
> 
> Nimbus/Phoenix and R2/R4 are not specifically called out, so it might only be the most recent generation reverbs (Symphony/Stratus) getting M1 compatibility, but since they’re all in the same general framework, I doubt the older EA reverbs will get left behind unless they stop being money makers.


I’ll believe it when I see it…


----------



## SupremeFist

Thundercat said:


> An unemployed California gas station manager who was fired after mistakenly setting prices at 69 cents is trying to pay back $20,000 in losses to his former bosses
> 
> A California gas station manager lost his job after mistakenly setting a gas price at 69 cents per gallon.
> John Szczecina's sister set up a GoFundMe that raised more than $20,000 to repay the station owners.
> "Even though it cost me my job, it's fine. Because the truth is, you know, it's my fault," Szczecina said.
> Former Shell gas station manager John Szczecina is trying to pay back his former employer, after mistakenly pricing premium gas as low as 69 cents a gallon .
> 
> Szczecina's Shell station in Rancho Cordova , California , flooded with customers when he mistakenly misplaced a decimal on $6.99 per gallon on premium gas to 69 cents, according to CBS Sacrament
> 
> Before the mistake was fixed several hours later, customers had flocked to the station to take advantage of the unintentional deal amid rising gas prices. The mistake reportedly cost the gas station $20,000 in sales, according to Fortune .
> 
> "I immediately thought we had gotten robbed and was scared that something terrible had happened to the cashiers," Szczecina, who later lost his job , told https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/16/gas-station-california-fired-price/ (Washington Post). "Even though it cost me my job, it's fine. Because the truth is, you know, it's my fault."
> 
> With the help of friends and family, the former manager is now trying to pay back the Shell gas station, which is reportedly independently owned . A person who said they are Szczecina's sister, Paula Jackson, set up a https://www.gofundme.com/f/mgr-owes-16000-in-69-cent-glitch-rancho-cordova?qid=c64c844ad9e15c3afa3195c569cd613e (GoFundMe)which raised more than enough money to cover the damage. Szczecina and his sister are making arrangements to return the money to Shell.
> 
> "He doesn't have to pay it back," Jackson told the Washington Post. "But just the fact that he is doing it and wants to do it shows a lot of character and honesty and responsibility, and I'm really proud of him for that."
> 
> The GoFundMe easily surpassed its goal, raising $24,087.
> 
> "We want to thank you all for your encouraging words and financial support! We have made our goal and now are in the process of arranging the return of the money," the page said Friday. "We appreciate all of you kind and generous people!"
> 
> Read the original article on Insider


Was there ever a gofundme set up for jrrshop after a bunch of people jumped on his HOD glitch?


----------



## LearningToCompose:)

badabing said:


> I've noticed that quite a few posts in this thread indicate that people are equating criticism of their actions with a judgement of their entire character. It is possible for people who aren't "bad" to do something immoral or amoral; we are all far too complex to be judged in our entirety based on any single action. In fact christian teachings advise separation of the "sin" from the "sinner", I'm sure other religions have versions of this. Anyway, it might take some of the heat out of the arguments here to think of things that way.


Christianity teaches we are all bad, period. You can't get salvation untill you realize you are not good, no one can live up to God's standard. Christianity is the only faith where you are not saved by works but through the sacrifice Jesus made for our sins.
Anyway, i'm going to stop being "preachy" but it was relevant to your comment  
I hope any of my posts haven't given that impression to anybody. I was simply responding to the morality issue already being brought up with my stance on why I felt it was not a great move to take advantage of the glitch.


----------



## kitekrazy

tmhuud said:


> 21 pages, has anyone figured out what IS happening?


Yep, the sub only pandemic is alive and well at Vi Control. If there's a sale or a glitch it triggers that "uh oh they are going to be sub only". It has replaced the everything going iLok frenzy. So much knee jerk reaction. The sub only model is a major risk in the DAW world if you look for income from non professionals. Business people think because it works for Adobe it works everywhere.


----------



## Constant K

kitekrazy said:


> Yep, the sub only pandemic is alive and well at Vi Control. If there's a sale or a glitch it triggers that "uh oh they are going to be sub only". It has replaced the everything going iLok frenzy. So much knee jerk reaction. The sub only model is a major risk in the DAW world if you look for income from non professionals. Business people think because it works for Adobe it works everywhere.


Adobe had a monopoly tho. Only monopoly in this industry is kontakt.


----------



## kitekrazy

Constant K said:


> Adobe had a monopoly tho. Only monopoly in this industry is kontakt.


People take pictures with their phones compared to those running Kontakt.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

So the *Everything Bundle Link* is not working anymore?


----------



## Constant K

kitekrazy said:


> People take pictures with their phones compared to those running Kontakt.


Just mean that if anything makes sense for sub only it's kontakt.


----------



## Alchemedia

tmhuud said:


> 21 pages, has anyone figured out what IS happening?



I believe it's a hommage to Bunuel's "Exterminating Angel".


----------



## el-bo

badabing said:


> I've noticed that quite a few posts in this thread indicate that people are equating criticism of their actions with a judgement of their entire character. It is possible for people who aren't "bad" to do something immoral or amoral; we are all far too complex to be judged in our entirety based on any single action. In fact christian teachings advise separation of the "sin" from the "sinner", I'm sure other religions have versions of this. Anyway, it might take some of the heat out of the arguments here to think of things that way.









If I thought anyone here was a bad and/or immoral/amoral person, I wouldn't have wasted a single fucking keystroke. Not even entirely sure I'm accusing anyone of an immoral action though. I certainly think there's a blind-spot and I thought there was a wider conversation to be had. 

Besides, the court of public opinion has spoken. The verdict is that I was wrong, all along. I definitely appreciate your contribution, though


----------



## SupremeFist

el-bo said:


> If I thought anyone here was a bad and/or immoral/amoral person, I wouldn't have wasted a single fucking keystroke. Not even entirely sure I'm accusing anyone of an immoral action though. I certainly think there's a blind-spot and I thought there was a wider conversation to be had.
> 
> Besides, the court of public opinion has spoken. The verdict is that I was wrong, all along. I definitely appreciate your contribution, though


fwiw I don't think you were wrong. I'm not sure I think you were absolutely right either, but it's a completely valid conversation to have!


----------



## Thundercat

SupremeFist said:


> Was there ever a gofundme set up for jrrshop after a bunch of people jumped on his HOD glitch?


I wasn't around then...dunno


----------



## Nico5

easyrider said:


> I don’t want more digital on my board…and I don’t want a pedal called MOOD either 😂
> 
> The ONLY thing digital is my DigiTech Hardwire RV-7 Stereo Reverb


nice board!

My own multi-year journey to the my ultimate guitar setup ended up here, because upon returning to the guitar after many years only in synth land, I just “had to” have stereo and dual amping. And a little guitar synthing without a 13pin cable. 






That particular journey feels kind of complete now, and over the last little while I’ve been on a quest to emulate that hardware setup in software.

The stereo/dual audio chain adds an interesting twist to my software quest. So many different ways of going about it.

— 
But sorry for the side-track and now back to our ongoing program of fundamentalist finger waggings.


----------



## el-bo

Nico5 said:


> @el-bo
> 
> As you noticed from a prior response of mine, I had given you the strong benefit of the doubt.
> 
> However, allow me to mention how uncomfortable I am with conversations invoking "morality".
> 
> To me the invocation of "morality" is an attempt to stop dialog. It strikes me as coming from the same fundamentalist playbook to stop questioning and conversations and learning about often complex topics that require context dependent and nuanced discussion.
> 
> In several of your posts you seem to actively dismiss the validity of a more contextual discussion and maybe different valid answers for different individuals by invoking the morality clause. And you seem to have reached into "slippery slope" ("hypotheticals") type of arguments to make an absolutist case, while dismissing other arguments as "strawmen". -- That made me wonder if you're really interested in a conversation exploring alternate ways of looking at things, or if over the duration of this thread you've slowly migrated to just needing to win an argument?
> 
> As a result I now perceive you as being quite judgemental - although you may not feel that way about yourself. That in itself doesn't make you a bad person or unlikable - some of the favourite people in my life also have a very judgemental streak. But I also frequently remind them of their judgemental nature.
> 
> Fundamentalism can be found on many topics, not just religion. I have come across too many people who escaped one kind of fundamentalism, just to end up in another. In addition or instead of religion, some people are fundamentalist atheists, some others are fundamentalist vegans, some are fundamentalist free speech advocates, some are fundamentalist moralists.
> 
> I understand how seductive fundamentalism is, since it makes it so much easier to comprehend and react to and make decisions in an ever more complicated world. However, it's also a primary driver of division in the world, because it prevents people from growing their own positions and attitudes. And it gets in the way of compromise. And it's also a great enabler for the abuse of power.
> 
> I subscribe to the world view that many (most?) things are very contextual and therefore in fringe cases get incredibly complicated, multi-dimensional and nuanced. In my view, the iZotope glitch story falls into nuanced and complicated territory.
> 
> I had a very complicated reaction to the glitch because of the multi-dimensionality of the situation, including questions such as
> 
> Is it a genuine innocent mistake or a sneaky marketing AB test, or a devilishly brilliant "fomo" experiment to quickly milk money from people who would otherwise never have parted with that money? Am I being an a-hole to "take advantage" or am I being "smart with my limited funds" or am I a dupe who's falling for a cheap psychology trick?
> Are they innocently incompetent or willfully and abusively confusing in their pricing strategy?
> Is my money going to a small group of people trying to eek out a living or to a stone-cold-hearted incredibly wealthy investor group, that actively tries to milk me for everything they can?
> Do I want to get even more deeply into their eco-system, while I'm actually considering to get out entirely?
> Would buying the big package now lock me into much more expensive upgrades of the big package forever? (e.g. I've never gone to NI Komplete Ultimate or Steinberg Nuendo because I was afraid, that it would lock me into those higher priced upgrade paths forever (compared to Komplete regular and Cubase).
> Is the stuff I don't already have even worth the lowest possible "glitch" price for my future work flow needs? (Arguably there were 3 different pricing levels of "glitch").
> I ended up on the *not buying* side (so the apparently same side as you), but it never crossed my mind to question the different decision tree bottom lines of other individuals, whether they came to a similar one to me or to a very different one.
> 
> Personally I would find your position much more admirable, if you communicated it as purely your own discomfort to purchase in this set of circumstances, without claiming to be guided by a universal "morality" and hammering the thread with it's universal applicability overriding any other individual's considerations.
> 
> For me, the issue isn't your decision making, the problem is the claim of universality.
> 
> I'd be impressed and feel enlightened, if you stated why you came to a conclusion for yourself while also accepting that different decision outcomes are perfectly valid and interesting. And maybe refrain from trying to prove that everyone coming to a different conclusion is wrong.
> 
> 
> In my view, for a case like this "live and let live" principles easily beat "morality" principles.


Not entirely sure why you'd have given me the benefit of any doubt, given how much you've seemed to misrepresent my position(s). 

Anyway...I'm not ignoring you, and do intend to respond. Just gimme a minute


----------



## Brasart

Thundercat said:


> I certainly don't think you were wrong either. Chacun a son gout.


Just a quick correction to lighten up the mood a bit, the correct expression in French would be: _à chacun son goût _!





à chacun son goût - Wiktionary







en.wiktionary.org


----------



## easyrider

Nico5 said:


> nice board!
> 
> My own multi-year journey to the my ultimate guitar setup ended up here, because upon returning to the guitar after many years only in synth land, I just “had to” have stereo and dual amping. And a little guitar synthing without a 13pin cable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That particular journey feels kind of complete now, and over the last little while I’ve been on a quest to emulate that hardware setup in software.
> 
> The stereo/dual audio chain adds an interesting twist to my software quest. So many different ways of going about it.
> 
> —
> But sorry for the side-track and now back to our ongoing program of fundamentalist finger waggings.


👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️


----------



## easyrider

Waves 14 is here


WUP! 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳


----------



## el-bo

SupremeFist said:


> Was there ever a gofundme set up for jrrshop after a bunch of people jumped on his HOD glitch?


What HOD glitch? And what gofundme?


----------



## el-bo

For anyone who's interested: I received a reply in my current, ongoing support enquiry, that there was nothing intentional about the glitch.

Take that (or not) as you will (or won't).

*Edited* to correct a mistake that rendered the last sentence meaningless


----------



## Constant K

easyrider said:


> Waves 14 is here
> 
> 
> WUP! 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳


I thought you were joking. He's not joking everyone.


----------



## SupremeFist

el-bo said:


> What HOD glitch? And what gofundme?


There wasn't a gofundme as far as I'm aware, that's my point, but over a weekend last year (I think?) jrrshop accidentally listed full HOD for something like less than $200 and there was a big thread of people gleefully buying it, then afterwards it was confirmed it was a mistake. (Much worse than the izotope glitch because jrr presumably had to pay EW for those licenses).


----------



## Daren Audio

easyrider said:


> They are still selling EOL Reverbs too that doesn’t sit well with me…





easyrider said:


> Said nothing planned for updates and M1 support …but the link no longer works….I can’t find anything on the site that Says Exponential Audio Reverbs like Nimbus and R4 will be M1 compatible.


Exponential Audio plugins have been brought back to life. I re-activated mine on M1 (Rosetta).

 https://vi-control.net/community/threads/exponential-audio-officially-runs-in-macos-monterey-and-rosetta.125945/


----------



## tmhuud

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Its like one of those movies where you’re not sure until the end. Started good, had a nice plottwist very early, but feels stretched now. The amount of drama was a bit foreseeable but had unexpected ideas. The battle scenery was a bit short for my taste, and you could see the swords were just props….yea budget cuts (literally).
> I didn’t like the comedy though, felt way too forced.
> Id give it a steady 8/10, just for the nice Soundtrack.


Sounds a little like “The Batman”. 😆


----------



## el-bo

SupremeFist said:


> There wasn't a gofundme as far as I'm aware, that's my point, but over a weekend last year (I think?) jrrshop accidentally listed full HOD for something like less than $200 and there was a big thread of people gleefully buying it, then afterwards it was confirmed it was a mistake. (Much worse than the izotope glitch because jrr presumably had to pay EW for those licenses).


I vaguely remember this.

Interesting that nobody bought it up, earlier in the conversation, as it's a prime example of where I think these things can end up - Same gleeful, "I live for this shit!", mining of a glitch...Very different outcome.

Is mining glitches only ok if 'we' hate the company involved? or if they end up making a profit? Or is it also fair game even if companies and/or developers (perhaps those on this forum), or much loved/respected internet shop-owners such as 'Uncle E', end up really losing out?


----------



## Nico5

el-bo said:


> For anyone who's interested: I received a reply in my current, ongoing support enquiry, that there was nothing intentional about the glitch.
> 
> That that (or not) as you will (or won't).


 My following comment is *not* a critique of you posting about the answer you received.

I just find their answer to you (and apparently others) is pretty much the same answer I would expect in either scenario:


Honest mistake ==> honest answer
sneaky (less than fully honest) sales tactic ==> sneaky (less than fully honest) answer 
So, unless I was in their most internal information loop, I’ll never really know - and can therefore only make subjective guesses.

And which way I’m guessing probably says more about my own life experiences and resulting biases than what it says about reality.


----------



## SupremeFist

el-bo said:


> I vaguely remember this.
> 
> Interesting that nobody bought it up, earlier in the conversation, as it's a prime example of where I think these things can end up - Same gleeful, "I live for this shit!", mining of a glitch...Very different outcome.
> 
> Is mining glitches only ok if 'we' hate the company involved? or if they end up making a profit? Or is it also fair game even if companies and/or developers (perhaps those on this forum), or much loved/respected internet shop-owners such as 'Uncle E', end up really losing out?


Exactly. People might reasonably argue that those indeed are the morally salient differences (conglomerate vs mom'n'pop; free profit vs presumed loss), but in that case they ought to be specific and clear about it.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Its like one of those movies where you’re not sure until the end. Started good, had a nice plottwist very early, but feels stretched now. The amount of drama was a bit foreseeable but had unexpected ideas. The battle scenery was a bit short for my taste, and you could see the swords were just props….yea budget cuts (literally).
> I didn’t like the comedy though, felt way too forced.
> Id give it a steady 8/10, just for the nice Soundtrack.


Frankly, I find it severely lacking in the gratuitous sex and violence department….


----------



## el-bo

Nico5 said:


> My following comment is *not* a critique of you posting about the answer you received.
> 
> I just find their answer to you (and apparently others) is pretty much the same answer I would expect in either scenario:
> 
> 
> Honest mistake ==> honest answer
> sneaky (less than fully honest) sales tactic ==> sneaky (less than fully honest) answer
> So, unless I was in their most internal information loop, I’ll never really know - and can therefore only make subjective guesses.
> 
> And which way I’m guessing probably says more about my own life experiences and resulting biases than what it says about reality.


I went back to edit my mistake. But other than that, your response (Not just particular yours) is expected, and therefore covered in the last sentence.

As I already pointed out earlier, there's quite the amount of cope in this thread. Maybe I'm remembering it wrongly, but I think one poster even seemed to stretch the idea of this being intentional to the point that it seemed like a crowd-funding or charity event. I even started to feel guilty that i hadn't donated 

I asked a question. I got an answer. I shared that answer ¡Ya Está!


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

Michael Antrum said:


> Frankly, I find it severely lacking in the gratuitous sex and violence department….


The sex is there, but gearporn is for the hardware audience. People like Tubes for a reason. Violence? Some people were pulling hairs out, thats all it needs.


----------



## Constant K

The only comparison that can justifiably happen here without resorting to ridiculous hypotheticals (really this "would you murder Hitler as child?" stuff is laughable) is every other incident where a retailer or manufacturer incorrectly advertised a product and consumers purchased it.

Please show me the charge sheet of any person who ever knowingly purchased incorrectly priced goods?

There is no moral question here. Unless you want to talk about the inherent morality of you know, Capitalism?

If you feel icky on behalf of yourself or others who knowingly purchased mispriced goods, that is a you problem.

You can do a bad thing and not be a bad person? I can't even...

When a Lion eats a Gazelle where is the cruelty? I do not mean that in the Gordan Gecko sense. Cruelty only resides in the Human heart; that is to say your perception of how the World actually works is what leads to your pity for the Gazelle.

How many of you who attend Church on a Sunday want to tear down Capitalism because of it's inherent immorality? I can put you in touch with some anarchists.


----------



## Nico5

el-bo said:


> I went back to edit my mistake. But other than that, your response (Not just particular yours) is expected, and therefore covered in the last sentence.
> 
> As I already pointed out earlier, there's quite the amount of cope in this thread. Maybe I'm remembering it wrongly, but I think one poster even seemed to stretch the idea of this being intentional to the point that it seemed like a crowd-funding or charity event. I even started to feel guilty that i hadn't donated
> 
> I asked a question. I got an answer. I shared that answer ¡Ya Está!


Did you feel attacked by that post? I honestly tried to open with a sentence that I was NOT crtical of your post.

So why this comment belittling my post?



el-bo said:


> But other than that, your response (Not just particular yours) is expected, and therefore covered in the last sentence.


And why belittle another (albeit unnamed) poster?



el-bo said:


> one poster even seemed to stretch the idea of this being intentional to the point that it seemed like a crowd-funding or charity event.



It’s perfectly okay to disagree, but the sometimes belittling, snarky and judgemental tone is clouding some of your (otherwise entirely reasonable and interesting) personal interpretations, views and choices. 

I’m perfectly accepting of your views and choices and find them valid input into my own continually evolving views and choices. — It’s the judging, belittlement and ridiculing of different views that I find a lot less endearing.


----------



## el-bo

Nico5 said:


> Did you feel attacked by that post? I honestly tried to open with a sentence that I was NOT crtical of your post.
> 
> So why this comment belittling my post?
> 
> 
> And why belittle another (albeit unnamed) poster?
> 
> 
> 
> It’s perfectly okay to disagree, but the sometimes belittling, snarky and judgemental tone is clouding some of your (otherwise entirely reasonable and interesting) personal interpretations, views and choices.
> 
> I’m perfectly accepting of your views and choices and find them valid input into my own continually evolving views and choices. — It’s the judging, belittlement and ridiculing of different views that I find a lot less endearing.


Wasn't belittling anyone, not even the unnamed (Sorry! Was being too lazy to go back and check) poster. It just amused me that the speculation that this was planned (I'm not even claiming it wasn't, though I believe what I was told), could be taken 'and run with' to such an extreme.

Also, no snark.

I wrote the last sentence in that way to account for the fact that people could or need not believe the answer, and that I was trying to cover the possibility (even likelihood) that most of the people in this thread will disbelieve the answer I got.

My sharing of the reply I received was not to be taken as my endorsement of it as the truth.


----------



## easyrider

Daren Audio said:


> Exponential Audio plugins have been brought back to life. I re-activated mine on M1 (Rosetta).
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/exponential-audio-officially-runs-in-macos-monterey-and-rosetta.125945/


Let’s hope they redeem themselves.


----------



## lp59burst

Constant K said:


> Bruh you don't even get to pedalboard endgame until you buy your first chase bliss...
> 
> Now if this were a regular Joe I would estimate that would be between 2-5 years away. But you... short odds on 6 months to a year. <snip...>


Haha... been there too... 

I have a Chase Bliss Audio Preamp MKII (with cover  ) along with a '77 A/DA Flanger (SAD1024A), Boss BF-1 Flanger, "Script" Phase 90, '78 Deluxe Electric Mistress, Fulltone ((Stereo)) Deja Vibe...

...and my Avatar is my '03 Brazilian Board Les Paul R9...

All of which I actually use - unlike the majority of my plugins...


----------



## Manuel Cervera

Everything is on offer.
But I'm a little tired of buying things that give me little.
They are all good tools. 
But the ones I already have are also good.


----------



## Nico5

el-bo said:


> Anyway...I'm not ignoring you, and do intend to respond. Just gimme a minute


If you prefer, I can delete my post. I've said what I wanted to say at that point in time and the conversation. And you and those who were participating in that part of the conversation a couple of days ago, know my position. 

However, as far as I'm concerned, my post addressing you doesn't need to live on this forum forever. And if it's gone, it also might save you the time and effort for a rebuttal.

One the other hand, if you prefer, I can also leave it there. 

Just let me know your preference and I'll act accordingly.


----------



## thesteelydane

Gotta say, as someone who has paid about $700 for RX9 Advanced, I feel a bit cheated.


----------



## easyrider

thesteelydane said:


> Gotta say, as someone who has paid about $700 for RX9 Advanced, I feel a bit cheated.


No way really?
They are constantly on sale!


----------



## el-bo

Nico5 said:


> If you prefer, I can delete my post. I've said what I wanted to say at that point in time and the conversation. And you and those who were participating in that part of the conversation a couple of days ago, know my position.
> 
> However, as far as I'm concerned, my post addressing you doesn't need to live on this forum forever. And if it's gone, it also might save you the time and effort for a rebuttal.
> 
> One the other hand, if you prefer, I can also leave it there.
> 
> Just let me know your preference and I'll act accordingly.


Thanks for the offer. But if you still stand by what you said, then leave the post where it is. If you've changed your position regarding anything you wrote, then post an addendum. Yours may not even be the worst misrepresentation of my position. It's just that you actually took the time to write it out very clearly and very eloquently, so it seemed to offer a good opportunity to clarify myself.

I just don't think I can be bothered. Let people think what they think. If I change my mind, I'd like the post to be there. Then I can respond. If I don't, no hard feelings


----------



## Thundercat

thesteelydane said:


> Gotta say, as someone who has paid about $700 for RX9 Advanced, I feel a bit cheated.


That really sucks!!


----------



## kitekrazy

thesteelydane said:


> Gotta say, as someone who has paid about $700 for RX9 Advanced, I feel a bit cheated.


Everyone has been cheated at some point. It's the risk of buying. It happens with groceries every week.


----------



## Nico5

el-bo said:


> Thanks for the offer. But if you still stand by what you said, then leave the post where it is. If you've changed your position regarding anything you wrote, then post an addendum. Yours may not even be the worst misrepresentation of my position. It's just that you actually took the time to write it out very clearly and very eloquently, so it seemed to offer a good opportunity to clarify myself.
> 
> I just don't think I can be bothered. Let people think what they think. If I change my mind, I'd like the post to be there. Then I can respond. If I don't, no hard feelings


Thanks for responding so quickly. I’ll leave it then. And you don’t have to feel obligated to respond for my sake. It would seem, that we agree to disagree for the time being. 
And that’s perfectly fine and no hard feelings indeed!


----------



## sinkd

I pulled the trigger before I realized that I was not supposed to be eligible (though I own a lot of Izotope licenses, including a recently updated RX standard). I asked them about it and received this kind reply



> Hi Damon,
> 
> Thanks for reaching out to iZotope Customer Care!
> 
> I am sorry for the confusion here. We did have a glitch where the Everything bundle upgrade was being offered to users who did not qualify for the upgrade. To be eligible for the $199 upgrade offer, you must own a license for RX 9 Advanced or Post Production Suite.
> 
> However, because the mistake was on our end, and you had already taken advantage of the offer, I am happy to honor that pricing for you! I hope that you enjoy the new plugins as part of your purchase!
> 
> Please reach out if you have any questions or concerns and I will be happy to help! Hope you have a great day!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Phoenix


----------



## Nimrod7

thesteelydane said:


> Gotta say, as someone who has paid about $700 for RX9 Advanced, I feel a bit cheated.


You're not alone:



That's just the upgrade, but again, at that time, those prices were considered good. I had paid each versions upgrade since then.

I have no regrets for the tool, or the money spend, its worth it for me, what it does it's invaluable.
Now with the price reductions, I am happy that more people will get access to it.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Nimrod7 said:


> I am happy that more people will get access to it.


You're not fooling anyone....


----------



## Bman70

Nimrod7 said:


> its worth it for me, what it does it's invaluable.


I'm curious, what exactly are people doing with RX advanced? I know it removes noise, but how much of that really happens in studio based recording? So far Elements alone has been fine for my occasional needs. Or are you using it for things besides music, e.g. film footage, outdoor shoots etc.?


----------



## Nimrod7

Bman70 said:


> I'm curious, what exactly are people doing with RX advanced?


Post people use it a lot, for dialog repair, de-reverb, fixing noises with the spectral editor, de-breath / pop / click, removing ambient sounds captured in the dialog, and a ton of other things. Every one of the toolset it provides can be a a lifesaver. 

I guess for musicians, the music rebalance it's a cool feature apart from the noise reduction to create acapellas! I am not sure what other uses it has.


----------



## jcrosby

Daren Audio said:


> Exponential Audio plugins have been brought back to life. I re-activated mine on M1 (Rosetta).
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/exponential-audio-officially-runs-in-macos-monterey-and-rosetta.125945/


Looks like they updated Excalibur and Phoenix Verb too to be compatible with Monterey. 

These also show updates from June 2nd with the same compatibility.


----------



## easyrider

Nimrod7 said:


> You're not alone:
> 
> 
> 
> That's just the upgrade, but again, at that time, those prices were considered good. I had paid each versions upgrade since then.
> 
> I have no regrets for the tool, or the money spend, its worth it for me, what it does it's invaluable.
> Now with the price reductions, I am happy that more people will get access to it.


wow just wow.....

I'm lost for words....


----------



## Fleer

jcrosby said:


> Looks like they updated Excalibur and Phoenix Verb too to be compatible with Monterey.
> 
> These also show updates from June 2nd with the same compatibility.


Let’s hope they’ll be M1 native too.


----------



## jcrosby

Fleer said:


> Let’s hope they’ll be M1 native too.


Definitely hope so!!!


----------



## thesteelydane

Bman70 said:


> I'm curious, what exactly are people doing with RX advanced? I know it removes noise, but how much of that really happens in studio based recording? So far Elements alone has been fine for my occasional needs. Or are you using it for things besides music, e.g. film footage, outdoor shoots etc.?


High quality noise reduction is essential in sampling, as is removing squeaky chairs, breaths, unintended resonances etc...or some users WILL complain, in my experience.


----------



## Crowe

thesteelydane said:


> High quality noise reduction is essential in sampling, as is removing squeaky chairs, breaths, unintended resonances etc...or some users WILL complain, in my experience.


Indeed we will.


----------



## rrichard63

I received an email from iZotope dated today that says, "But hurry—this offer expires June 30th!" No, it doesn't. It has already disappeared from both the iZotope site and dealer sites.

EDIT: This email says "EMAIL ONLY" in the subject line. Clicking on the link does still offer you the $199 price. But the special price is no longer available through retailers.


----------



## thesteelydane

Nimrod7 said:


> You're not alone:
> 
> 
> 
> That's just the upgrade, but again, at that time, those prices were considered good. I had paid each versions upgrade since then.
> 
> I have no regrets for the tool, or the money spend, its worth it for me, what it does it's invaluable.
> Now with the price reductions, I am happy that more people will get access to it.


Yeah my price is not exact, I went through the various sales and upgrades over the years. I don’t think I ever saw the last step from standard to advanced for less than $400 so that why I estimate my total costs at about 700. Granted, I got a lot of other cool stuff for that money…


----------



## KEM

Ozone 10 and RX 10 are coming soon and both are free upgrades for owners of 9









iZotope Deals


View current deals on iZotope products and access savings on audio plug-ins for mixing, mastering, audio restoration, and more.




www.izotope.com


----------



## Fleer

KEM said:


> Ozone 10 and RX 10 are coming soon and both are free upgrades for owners of 9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iZotope Deals
> 
> 
> View current deals on iZotope products and access savings on audio plug-ins for mixing, mastering, audio restoration, and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.izotope.com


If you buy Ozone or RX 9 now. Not if you've got them already, I'm afraid.


----------



## Crowe

Fleer said:


> If you buy Ozone or RX 9 now. Not if you've got them already, I'm afraid.


Seems like it, but the site is utterly baffling as always.





Why on earth am I getting an offer for a Free upgrade to 10 for 149,-? If this is Ozone 9 itself, why am I getting an offer for software I already own?

It's pretty confusing, but that's nothing new.


----------



## Benbln

Crowe said:


> Seems like it, but the site is utterly baffling as always.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth am I getting an offer for a Free upgrade to 10 for 149,-? If this is Ozone 9 itself, why am I getting an offer for software I already own?
> 
> It's pretty confusing, but that's nothing new.


Do you have Ozone 9 advanced? Because I have the same offer as you posted. They always want me to buy Ozone 9 Standard even if I have advanced.


----------



## Crowe

Benbln said:


> Do you have Ozone 9 advanced? Because I have the same offer as you posted. They always want me to buy Ozone 9 Standard even if I have advanced.


Ah, that explains it then. Indeed, that is the case.


----------



## sostenuto

Crowe said:


> Seems like it, but the site is utterly baffling as always.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth am I getting an offer for a Free upgrade to 10 for 149,-? If this is Ozone 9 itself, why am I getting an offer for software I already own?
> 
> It's pretty confusing, but that's nothing new.


Curious _ _NOT _ _went to JRRShop and need translator. Much seemed pricey, if anything. 🙈


----------



## SonicMojo

Benbln said:


> Do you have Ozone 9 advanced? Because I have the same offer as you posted. They always want me to buy Ozone 9 Standard even if I have advanced.


I just contacted support on this today. They acknowledged that their website has a mind of it's own and does not offer you anything logically. I also get the super annoying Standard upgrade when I already own Advanced.

He mentioned the web team is aware but I sense it's not a huge priority for them 

Also confirmed that neither of these are free - UNLESS you buy 9 now (coming from a lower version) and then you will get 10 for "free". Most likely the same deal with RX x -> RX9 ->RX 10 (Free). 

This is their "standard" 30 day window offering.

Sonic


----------



## vitocorleone123

SonicMojo said:


> I just contacted support on this today. They acknowledged that their website has a mind of it's own and does not offer you anything logically. I also get the super annoying Standard upgrade when I already own Advanced.
> 
> He mentioned the web team is aware but I sense it's not a huge priority for them
> 
> Also confirmed that neither of these are free - UNLESS you buy 9 now (coming from a lower version) and then you will get 10 for "free". Most likely the same deal with RX x -> RX9 ->RX 10 (Free).
> 
> This is their "standard" 30 day window offering.
> 
> Sonic


iZotope doesn't care about their website or, really, their customers (anymore). They'll happily try to sell you the same thing over and over. It's been that way a long time. Their new owners, Francisco Partners, want people to move to a subscription (iZotope, PluginAlliance and Native Instruments) and will slowly but surely lean more and more into that avenue. Their pricing on individual products is completely broken, and they don't care about that, either.

I'm at the point I'm actively avoiding purchasing anything from SoundWide.


----------



## José Herring

Crowe said:


> Seems like it, but the site is utterly baffling as always.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth am I getting an offer for a Free upgrade to 10 for 149,-? If this is Ozone 9 itself, why am I getting an offer for software I already own?
> 
> It's pretty confusing, but that's nothing new.


You're intended to consult your Tarot cards to see which deal the High Priestess will allow.


----------



## artomatic

SonicMojo said:


> I just contacted support on this today. They acknowledged that their website has a mind of it's own and does not offer you anything logically. I also get the super annoying Standard upgrade when I already own Advanced.
> 
> He mentioned the web team is aware but I sense it's not a huge priority for them
> 
> Also confirmed that neither of these are free - UNLESS you buy 9 now (coming from a lower version) and then you will get 10 for "free". Most likely the same deal with RX x -> RX9 ->RX 10 (Free).
> 
> This is their "standard" 30 day window offering.
> 
> Sonic




That's so out of whack! Unacceptable for a major company!


----------



## Leigh

artomatic said:


> That's so out of whack! Unacceptable for a major company!


But business as usual for a monopoly. We live in a canabalistic culture.

**Leigh


----------



## Jett Hitt

Leigh said:


> We live in a canabalistic culture.


^^^This^^^


----------



## Crowe

I don't particularly mind having to pay for upgraded versions, as I don't often find a need to upgrade. Stuff works perfectly fine the way it is, or I wouldn't be using it. Usually.

Regardless, I find the lack of transparency a little questionable.


----------



## Zedcars




----------



## X-Bassist

I can't read that without paying James Earl Jones royalties in my head.

I always have to keep track of what I buy since I caught myself re-buying some instruments from 8Dio. They were nice enough to allow me a refund since I already had it in my account. But that's unusual nowadays.


----------



## Russell Anderson

This is where y'all who got the $200 complete bundle get a free ozone/RX 10 because the free upgrade to two major titles was included in the bundle. And I talked myself into RX Standard for $100!

I thought when they said "updates to flagship software" it would be to Nectar and Neutron or something, you know... but here they go updating the actual plugins :s


----------



## Trash Panda

Russell Anderson said:


> This is where y'all who got the $200 complete bundle get a free ozone/RX 10 because the free upgrade to two major titles was included in the bundle.


Well there needed to be some kind of payoff for all the lecturing on morality in glitch pricing. 😂


----------



## Gaffable

Russell Anderson said:


> This is where y'all who got the $200 complete bundle get a free ozone/RX 10 because the free upgrade to two major titles was included in the bundle.


Thanks for the reminder. I had forgotten about this.

The order confirmation email that I received from Izotope for the Everything Bundle does not state that the free upgrades are included. Thankfully, we do have some documentary proof of the free upgrades, because @Markrs screenshotted the Izotope deal page in post #119 of this discussion thread. Here's the screenshot:


----------



## jbuhler

I agree with much of what’s being said here. Except the izotope bundles and offers have always been confusing and rarely made sense. So current practice in that sense is just continuing old practice.


----------



## Braveheart

Gaffable said:


> Thanks for the reminder. I had forgotten about this.
> 
> The order confirmation email that I received from Izotope for the Everything Bundle does not state that the free upgrades are included. Thankfully, we do have some documentary proof of the free upgrades, because @Markrs screenshotted the Izotope deal page in post #119 of this discussion thread. Here's the screenshot:


It’s still showing on their website:









iZotope Deals


View current deals on iZotope products and access savings on audio plug-ins for mixing, mastering, audio restoration, and more.




www.izotope.com


----------



## cnogradi

Gaffable said:


> Thanks for the reminder. I had forgotten about this.
> 
> The order confirmation email that I received from Izotope for the Everything Bundle does not state that the free upgrades are included. Thankfully, we do have some documentary proof of the free upgrades, because @Markrs screenshotted the Izotope deal page in post #119 of this discussion thread. Here's the screenshot:


Looks.like they are going to honor the free upgrade! 


Coming Soon: Ozone 10 and RX 10​






Your plug-ins are about to get a major upgrade. New versions of *RX* and *Ozone*, our flagship audio repair and mastering plug-ins, are dropping next month!

And, best of all, as an owner of the iZotope Everything Bundle you’ll automatically *get both of these powerful updates as soon as they’re available and at no extra cost.* Keep an eye on your inbox for more updates.

Until then, check out a sneak preview of what’s coming in Ozone 10 and RX 10.​


----------



## tc9000

cnogradi said:


> Looks.like they are going to honor the free upgrade!
> 
> 
> Coming Soon: Ozone 10 and RX 10​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your plug-ins are about to get a major upgrade. New versions of *RX* and *Ozone*, our flagship audio repair and mastering plug-ins, are dropping next month!
> 
> And, best of all, as an owner of the iZotope Everything Bundle you’ll automatically *get both of these powerful updates as soon as they’re available and at no extra cost.* Keep an eye on your inbox for more updates.
> 
> Until then, check out a sneak preview of what’s coming in Ozone 10 and RX 10.​


yep - i got this too - i felt a little bit bad


----------



## Trash Panda

tc9000 said:


> yep - i got this too - i felt a little bit bad


I don’t feel bad!


----------



## gedlig

So I got that glitched everything bundle, and RX10 got released yesterday. They added RX10 to my account, but it's the standard version instead of advanced that is in the everything bundle xD Though another problem I have is that I can't find the order confirmation email to maybe contact support to ask and give the order number, cause for some reason Izotope split that order into 3 different ones

Edit: Like instead of having an order for the complete bundle, there are orders for music production suite 5, post production suite 6 and a third for the other izotope, exponential audio and bx things


----------



## Nimrod7

gedlig said:


> So I got that glitched everything bundle, and RX10 got released yesterday. They added RX10 to my account, but it's the standard version instead of advanced that is in the everything bundle xD.


They added the correct 10 advanced in my case. It shows under "Purchase History" at least. 

The update however seems minor, I have so far seen 2 improved plugins and a text search (which is great), I might be mistaken, I need to deep dive in the weekend.


----------



## gamma-ut

Apparently, I can upgrade to Everything for $199 or MPS for $249. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## gedlig

Nimrod7 said:


> They added the correct 10 advanced in my case. It shows under "Purchase History" at least.
> 
> The update however seems minor, I have so far seen 2 improved plugins and a text search (which is great), I might be mistaken, I need to deep dive in the weekend.


Probably best for me to contact support and ask :D



gamma-ut said:


> Apparently, I can upgrade to Everything for $199 or MPS for $249. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Yup, same. As was said in some previous post, Izotope know their website and loyalty system is effed, but apparently they're too incompetent to do anything about it :D


----------



## emilio_n

In my account, they are asking me to pay 149$ to upgrade to RX10 Advances (I got the Everything Bundle in the last offer with the glitch... I think I will contact them to ask. Looks like each person has a different situation.


----------



## gedlig

emilio_n said:


> In my account, they are asking me to pay 149$ to upgrade to RX10 Advances (I got the Everything Bundle in the last offer with the glitch... I think I will contact them to ask. Looks like each person has a different situation.


inb4 this is punishment to us who took advantage of the glitch and all the moral supremacists will bask in schadenfreude :D


----------



## emilio_n

I checked, and it looks like at least I have a licence of RX 10 Standard


----------



## Nimrod7

emilio_n said:


> In my account, they are asking me to pay 149$ to upgrade to RX10 Advances


The updates are a mess (the section in their website). It's even asking me to pay for Standard even if I have advanced. 
If it doesn't show under "Purchase History", send an email to request the proper update.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Nimrod7 said:


> The updates are a mess (the section in their website). It's even asking me to pay for Standard even if I have advanced.
> If it doesn't show under "Purchase History", send an email to request the proper update.


Just buy everything they tell you to! Simple! 😅


----------



## playz123

Had the same problem….seeing only the update to RX 10 Standard instead of Advanced. Used their Chat option and within a minute the problem was solved and I received download links and my serial number For Advanced. Much appreciated!


----------



## dunamisstudio

Well most of the time I see this pop up, I check my account and see what offers they got. Yeah, I always get the screw your loyalty upgrade option. I have majority of the products in the everything bundle except RX advanced, Dialogue Match, EA and BX ones. At this point I need to wait on a RX advanced sale.


----------



## rrichard63

playz123 said:


> Had the same problem….seeing only the update to RX 10 Standard instead of Advanced. Used their Chat option and within a minute the problem was solved and I received download links and my serial number For Advanced. Much appreciated!


We all may have to jump through the same hoops a second time when Ozone 10 becomes available. I'll probably wait until then and fix both issues at the same time.


----------



## Laddy




----------



## Laddy

So no luck here. No matter, not gonna bother fighting this. I don''t even use RX.


----------



## Junolab

Yeah same here. What a joke!


----------



## Junolab

playz123 said:


> Had the same problem….seeing only the update to RX 10 Standard instead of Advanced. Used their Chat option and within a minute the problem was solved and I received download links and my serial number For Advanced. Much appreciated!


How did you get this? Seems several members here only get the RX10 Standard


----------



## Nimrod7

This e-mail was send Jun 29,

2 upgrades, means to the relevant versions included not a downgrade. Advanced to Advanced. 
Is there any proof anywhere opposing the above? 

If not I thing you guys should make Izotope's life really difficult.


----------



## rrichard63

Laddy said:


>


@Laddy, which bundle(s) do you have? Is this Customer Service reply supposed to apply to people who own the Everything Bundle?


----------



## Henu

That upgrade-page is a complete clustefuck. You can't see any prices before you add them to your cart, and due to not telling what sort of upgrade it is, you can only see that in the cart as well. 

"So, let's see what's this another third complete bundle is for, and how much it costs this time!"


----------



## Laddy

rrichard63 said:


> @Laddy, which bundle(s) do you have? Is this Customer Service reply supposed to apply to people who own the Everything Bundle?


Its the glitch bundle


----------



## vitocorleone123

It was after buying MPS3 that I realized that bundles of music fx/tool plugins probably aren't for me (the only thing I use are Ozone and RX standalone apps - everything else is uninstalled from MPS3 at this point) - no matter the brand.


----------



## rrichard63

Laddy said:


> Its the glitch bundle


So it looks like @Laddy and @playz123 got completely different answers to the same question.


----------



## Junolab

If Izotope were a car dealer, they'd say that they could update your car to the newest version.... and give you a bike...


----------



## Crowe

This is what this page says right now.

Frankly, with what I've paid for the Everything Bundle I really couldn't care less even if there weren't *any* updates involved.


----------



## playz123

Junolab said:


> How did you get this? Seems several members here only get the RX10 Standard


I certainly didn't do anything special. As mentioned, I was seeing the Standard version in my account and had been advised my RX 9 Advanced was eligible for the upgrade. Yes, I had purchased the "everything" bundle for $199 in June. So all I did was use the Chat function, mentioned the message, and the very helpful assistant immediately provided links and a serial number. For me, nothing was frustrating or whatever, and the download, installation and authorization was a breeze. I can't comment on what others are experiencing since I did not have similar issues.


----------



## Phaedraz

playz123 said:


> I certainly didn't do anything special. As mentioned, I was seeing the Standard version in my account and had been advised my RX 9 Advanced was eligible for the upgrade. Yes, I had purchased the "everything" bundle for $199 in June. So all I did was use the Chat function, mentioned the message, and the very helpful assistant immediately provided links and a serial number. For me, nothing was frustrating or whatever, and the download, installation and authorization was a breeze. I can't comment on what others are experiencing since I did not have similar issues.


I chatted with support regarding the same problem. They added RX10 advanced to my account within a minute.


----------



## Trash Panda

Phaedraz said:


> I chatted with support regarding the same problem. They added RX10 advanced to my account within a minute.


When did you purchase the everything bundle? Support says purchases in June don’t qualify for RX10 Advanced.


----------



## gedlig

Where is this chat thing? I sent an email to support and waiting for a reply after not finding direct chat :D


----------



## Crowe

Chat is hidden in my browser and connection is being blocked by client after I unhide it. I'm not sure, but it possibly has to do with location?


----------



## Phaedraz

Trash Panda said:


> When did you purchase the everything bundle? Support says purchases in June don’t qualify for RX10 Advanced.


In June, during the glitch. Refer to the screenshot in this thread about a promised upgrade to 2 products and insist on that 9 advanced to 10 standard is not an upgrade, it is actually a crossgrade.


----------



## Crowe

My email says the following. Check your email and use this email to make your case.







EDIT:

In the meantime it's now also impossible for me to contact support via mail. Wtf.

EDIT AGAIN:
It's because the site is really, really bad.


----------



## YaniDee

I am trying to ignore all these Izotope "no brainer" deals..I keep getting variations or replacing stuff a month after I get it..It adds up. And the funny part, is that it's not even my go-to mixing /mastering solution.


----------



## Junolab

playz123 said:


> I certainly didn't do anything special. As mentioned, I was seeing the Standard version in my account and had been advised my RX 9 Advanced was eligible for the upgrade. Yes, I had purchased the "everything" bundle for $199 in June. So all I did was use the Chat function, mentioned the message, and the very helpful assistant immediately provided links and a serial number. For me, nothing was frustrating or whatever, and the download, installation and authorization was a breeze. I can't comment on what others are experiencing since I did not have similar issues.


Weird. I have now tried twice with two different supporters and none could help. Was your purchase also in June?


----------



## gedlig

Crowe said:


> My email says the following. Check your email and use this email to make your case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> In the meantime it's now also impossible for me to contact support via mail. Wtf.


Yeah, I also got this email. Gonna use this (especially as one of those split orders is for post production suite 6...) and the screenshot a couple pages back.

Regarding the chat button. Either they disabled it after an onslaught or it got hidden from me by either Ghostery or Privacy badger :D


----------



## Junolab

Crowe said:


> My email says the following. Check your email and use this email to make your case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> In the meantime it's now also impossible for me to contact support via mail. Wtf.


Which email is this? Doesn't look like any of my order confirmation mails


----------



## Phaedraz

Junolab said:


> Which email is this? Doesn't look like any of my order confirmation mails


I also got this email today 3 hour ago. Indeed it promises an upgrade to 10 advanced lastly in the email.


----------



## gedlig

Junolab said:


> Which email is this? Doesn't look like any of my order confirmation mails


Sent today. Starts with this.


----------



## Phaedraz

gedlig said:


> Sent today. Starts with this.


Yeah, if you got it, insist and don't give up.


----------



## gedlig

Oh those bastards... Still no reply from support, but got another promo email about RX 10.


----------



## AndrewS

gedlig said:


> Oh those bastards... Still no reply from support, but got another promo email about RX 10.


Just got that too, it completely contradicts the early email I got from them today.

What a mess, it's basically impossible to figure out what I own in the portal after buying that everything bundle. Overlapping Standard and Advanced versions galore.

Also not being able to CMD>Q to fully quit the Portal is getting on my nerves. In what world does CMD>Q make sense to just close the window!?


----------



## Phaedraz

gedlig said:


> Oh those bastards... Still no reply from support, but got another promo email about RX 10.


That is shady business practice! They try to take back their promises.... boooooh iZotope 🤑🤬


----------



## gedlig

AndrewS said:


> Just got that too, it completely contradicts the early email I got from them today.
> 
> What a mess, it's basically impossible to figure out what I own in the portal after buying that everything bundle. Overlapping Standard and Advanced versions galore.
> 
> Also not being able to CMD>Q to fully quit the Portal is getting on my nerves. In what world does CMD>Q make sense to just close the window!?


Don't use macs, can't comment on the cmd+q thing :D

It's not just contradicting the earlier email, it's contradicting what was written during the everything bundle sale in june xD

Edit: not only that, but since that bundle in my order history is split into music production suite 5 and post production suite 6 (which is supposed to get the free upgrade to the advanced version), they're just choosing the option most convenient to them


----------



## Phaedraz

gedlig said:


> Don't use macs, can't comment on the cmd+q thing :D
> 
> It's not just contradicting the earlier email, it's contradicting what was written during the everything bundle sale in june xD
> 
> Edit: not only that, but since that bundle in my order history is split into music production suite 5 and post production suite 6 (which is supposed to get the free upgrade to the advanced version), they're just choosing the option most convenient to them


They cannot get away with this. Too much evidence of earlier promises!


----------



## gedlig

I like how now there's randomly a particular time frame of purchases when there was never any mention about exactly what kind of update (i. e. standard or advanced) you would receive in buying on a specific date. And I could bet any consumer rights protection institution would say that if the product you bought contains the advanced version, then it's rightly assumed you would be entitled to the advanced update.


----------



## Trash Panda

gedlig said:


> I like how now there's randomly a particular time frame of purchases when there was never any mention about exactly what kind of update (i. e. standard or advanced) you would receive in buying on a specific date. And I could bet any consumer rights protection institution would say that if the product you bought contains the advanced version, then it's rightly assumed you would be entitled to the advanced update.


Looks like a way to recoup "losses" from the glitch upgrade purchases made during that timeframe.


----------



## rrichard63

I agree with everyone who has said or implied that iZotope is going back on their word. I sent a customer service inquiry before I saw the most recent email (post #538 above). Having seen it now, I'm not holding out much hope.


----------



## Junolab

Ok they just reached out to me by email (didn't contact them again) and they now said that I could get it. So they sent the serial. I think they had a talk about the case. So reach out to them again as soon as you can and it can hopefully work out for all.

BTW still got the standard RX10 on the account. Super weird.


----------



## Crowe

gedlig said:


> Oh those bastards... Still no reply from support, but got another promo email about RX 10.


Jup. Just saw this when I went to check if anyone replied to my inquiry yet. This is pretty shady.

And I say that as a professional hypocrite.


----------



## gedlig

Crowe said:


> Jup. Just saw this when I went to check if anyone replied to my inquiry yet. This is pretty shady.
> 
> And I say that as a professional hypocrite.


This + conflicting info from NI about Komplete grace periods (and I'm guessing eventually settling on no grace periods) + weirdness with Plugin Alliance... Only makes me think about the one thing they have in common, which is Soundwide


----------



## vitocorleone123

gedlig said:


> This + conflicting info from NI about Komplete grace periods (and I'm guessing eventually settling on no grace periods) + weirdness with Plugin Alliance... Only makes me think about the one thing they have in common, which is Soundwide


I'm down to using 5 or 6 Soundwide products at this time between all their brands. I don't know if I'll ever upgrade Ozone 9 or RX9.


----------



## timprebble

I'm in same boat as others - own RX9 Advanced, bought everything UPGRADE. Was sent RX10 Standard which is a DOWNGRADE. Have sent an email asking for correct license.

Maybe Soundwide are pivoting to being a support business, and are giving their support staff plenty of exercise sorting out this mess.


----------



## gedlig

timprebble said:


> I'm in same boat as others - own RX9 Advanced, bought everything UPGRADE. Was sent RX10 Standard which is a DOWNGRADE. Have sent an email asking for correct license.
> 
> Maybe Soundwide are pivoting to being a support business, and are giving their support staff plenty of exercise sorting out this mess.


Well they sure are in need of exercise, I still haven't gotten an official response from support! xD

(Sent around 16:40 my time* and it's now 08:13 the following day)

Edit 1: *UTC+3 during daylight savings time

Edit 2: Almost 14:40 the following day and still nothing


----------



## KEM

I have RX9 Standard, can’t decide if RX10 is worth it, I’d like to get Advanced but that upgrade price is not cheap


----------



## timprebble

gedlig said:


> Well they sure are in need of exercise, I still haven't gotten an official response from support! xD
> 
> (Sent around 16:40 my time and it's now 08:13 the following day)
> 
> Edit: UTC+3 during daylight savings time



Me neither, but living in the future (NZ/Aotearoa) we get used to that...

But if I don't wake up tomorrow to a fresh download, 
then it shall be time to release:

a. the hounds
b. vitriole
c. intense sarcasm
d. my credit card with a different company
e. all of the above


----------



## cedricm

KEM said:


> I have RX9 Standard, can’t decide if RX10 is worth it, I’d like to get Advanced but that upgrade price is not cheap


Same. I may wait till v11. All the more because Waves Clarity Vx works incredibly well.


----------



## Virtuoso

Looks like they've done the absolute bare minimum with the upcoming new Symphony/Stratus releases...


----------



## gedlig

Ok, my update is is that support sent me the key for RX10 advanced with download links for installers. Also said that Ozone 10 should be released next week


----------



## emilio_n

I wrote to them yesterday and didn't get any answer. :-(


----------



## gedlig

emilio_n said:


> I wrote to them yesterday and didn't get any answer. :-(


I wrote around this time yesterday and got the reply just recently, so I'm guessing you should get one quite soon also


----------



## timprebble

Still no reply to email, but I got a reply from Izotope on Twitter:
"Could you send us a DM with your account info so we can look into this for you? Email support may be a good 2 days behind due to all the RX launch volume questions."


They just DM'd me and have sorted it out, replacing my RX10 Standard license with Advanced. I had to log out of the Product Portal app and then log in again for it to realise the new license was there. Installing RX10 Advanced now.


----------



## gedlig

Wow, means I got pretty lucky with a fairly swift response it seems. Hope all you get this sorted with the proper outcome.


----------



## rrichard63

I just got a reply to my inquiry of yesterday. Like several others I received an RX10 Advanced license.

We'll probably never know whether they are doing anything for other customers who have not contacted them.


----------



## alcorey

Well I haven't contacted them - I bought the Everything bundle in June and got this email from them for a Standard copy






When I go to the Izotope Product Portal I only see a Full Trial to download






I'll probably wait until the dust settles down over there a bit before I contact them to see if they'll give me the Advanced version - I'm in no hurry


----------



## Explodingfish

First of all, thanks to everyone who told here that you'd received the Advanced update! That helped me make my case when I contacted the customer service.

I wrote them yesterday and received a reply today saying that I wasn't eligible for the update because I purchased the Post Production Bundle in spring (which is not true, I bought the Everything Bundle at the end of June, like many here).

I then sent them the receipt for the bundle and mentioned that I know a number of people who've bought the same bundle in June and reveiced RX 10 Advanced. I don't know if it was the receipt or the fact that I knew that they've given the update to others, but they finally sent me the product key for Advanced.

I thought I'd mention this here in case anyone else has been told by the customer service that they can't get the update if they got the bundle in June.


----------



## emilio_n

I got the answer yesterday night. 
Advanced activated. 👌🏻


----------



## Trash Panda

Got my reply this morning to the email form on their site I submitted. I included a PDF copy of the email I had received with this text and referred to line related to the Everything Bundle, asking them to fix the mistake and apply the upgrade to RX10 Advanced. 

They applied the correct upgrade to RX10 without any of that "if you bought between blah, blah, blah dates" malarkey.



> *If you bought RX 9 Standard you will receive RX 10 Standard FREE; If you bought RX 9 Advanced you will receive RX 10 Advanced FREE; If you bought RX Post Production Suite 6 you will receive RX Post Production Suite 7 FREE; If you bought iZotope Everything Bundle you will receive a FREE upgrade to RX 10 Advanced.


----------



## Thundercat

I too only received RX10 Standard. I have emailed their support in hopes of the upgrade. I already own RX9 Advanced.


----------



## walkaschaos

alcorey said:


> Well I haven't contacted them - I bought the Everything bundle in June and got this email from them for a Standard copy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I go to the Izotope Product Portal I only see a Full Trial to download
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll probably wait until the dust settles down over there a bit before I contact them to see if they'll give me the Advanced version - I'm in no hurry


The products show as Trial until you install and choose an activation method. Confusing I know but there you have it.


----------



## rrichard63

walkaschaos said:


> The products show as Trial until you install and choose an activation method. Confusing I know ...


I find this confusing as well. But none of the many license/download managers is perfect, and iZotope's is not the worst.


----------



## Crowe

Trash Panda said:


> Got my reply this morning to the email form on their site I submitted. I included a PDF copy of the email I had received with this text and referred to line related to the Everything Bundle, asking them to fix the mistake and apply the upgrade to RX10 Advanced.
> 
> They applied the correct upgrade to RX10 without any of that "if you bought between blah, blah, blah dates" malarkey.


They replied to me still trying to tell me that I wasn't eligible because of the date of purchase, but they gave me a key anyway, "just this once".

I think they know they're in the wrong here, you don't just give out hundreds of euros of software if you're in the right.


----------



## Braveheart

Got my Advanced license today from support


----------



## cnogradi

I contacted them on Sept.7 and have only gotten a confirmation of receipt. No answer in 3 days!


----------



## cnogradi

cnogradi said:


> I contacted them on Sept.7 and have only gotten a confirmation of receipt. No answer in 3 days!


Just got email also and they made right on it!


----------



## Trash Panda

No shenanigans today with the Ozone 10 release. Advanced showing in my account as it should be.


----------



## gedlig

Same here. And in the email they write if the everything bundle was purchased starting june 1st.


----------



## Explodingfish

I haven't received any e-mail, and don't have Ozone on my account. Bought the everything bundle in late June. I guess it's time for another e-mail to the customer support.


----------



## Braveheart

Explodingfish said:


> I haven't received any e-mail, and don't have Ozone on my account. Bought the everything bundle in late June. I guess it's time for another e-mail to the customer support.


They do it manually, so be patient. Got it not so long ago today...


----------



## Laddy

All right here now!
Maybe a bit off-topic, but how do you move authorization from one computer to another? All my Izotope programs are authorized to Computer, and in the Product Portal, the only choice is to authorize to Ilok USB. I can't see any way to deauthorize, or am I missing something? Is the license 1 machine only? (Just planning ahead for mye next build).


----------



## Captain Oveur

Laddy said:


> All my Izotope programs are authorized to Computer, and in the Product Portal, the only choice is to authorize to Ilok USB. I can't see any way to deauthorize, or am I missing something?


Each individual plugin should have a "Remove Authorization" button. It's usually in a menu labeled Options, Preferences, or a gear-shaped icon. Theoretically you should be able to authorize on your new build without deauth on the prior according to https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-u...-to-use-iZotope-Products-on-Multiple-Machines


----------



## Thundercat

Thundercat said:


> I too only received RX10 Standard. I have emailed their support in hopes of the upgrade. I already own RX9 Advanced.


Received adv versions of RX10 and Ozone.

Great tech support!

Mike


----------



## Laddy

Captain Oveur said:


> Each individual plugin should have a "Remove Authorization" button. It's usually in a menu labeled Options, Preferences, or a gear-shaped icon. Theoretically you should be able to authorize on your new build without deauth on the prior according to https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-u...-to-use-iZotope-Products-on-Multiple-Machines


Thanks!


----------



## Explodingfish

It really was a test of patience, but I finally received Ozone 10. Seems like iZotope's customer care is flooded, though. It took them full week to reply to my request and add it to my account. 🧐


----------



## tc9000

I bought the everything bundle in June, got RX10 standard  . I sent a message to support and they sorted it all out for me - RX10 Advanced ready to go - great success!


----------



## musicalweather

So, got an email today from Izotope saying that Phoenix, R2, R4, Nimbus, and the surround versions of those plus Excalibur will be discontinued, though presets from those will be available in Symphony and Stratus. I guess maybe this is old news, but it was the first time I heard it officially. Arg! Phoenix is my go-to reverb; I have Nimbus and R4 as well. I know they will continue to work on my machine, but if I upgrade to a M1 or M2 machine, they'll no longer be accessible. 

Symphony and Stratus are considerably beyond my budget; wonder if the price ever goes down significantly. I'm also wondering if I should snag a copy of Neoverb, which I can currently get from PluginAlliance for $29. From what I've heard, Neoverb seems to be using algorithms from R4...?

What do those of you who regularly use Phoenix/Nimbus or R2/R4 plan to do, if anything?


----------



## vitocorleone123

It's been just about a year since I abandoned R4 and Nimbus due to horrid, painful audio glitches in Studio One. My resolution was to replace them with Cinematic Rooms Pro and Tai Chi.


----------



## José Herring

musicalweather said:


> What do those of you who regularly use Phoenix/Nimbus or R2/R4 plan to do, if anything?


I use R2 and R4 all lot but they aren't my favorites. Reverbs in my opinion represent the few plugins that suffer from the "winds of change" there's always something newer coming out. 
Both R2 and R4 are very cloudy to me after hearing Cinematic Rooms and Tai Chi.

I use to use only Valhalla Room. It's very good but after years and years of using it I just got sick of the sound of it. R2 and R4 became my substitutes but they aren't really any better. 
I also use a lot Seventh Heaven. Really good reverb but took a little getting use to. Once I did I rather like it. 
The current state of reverbs is very clean sounding reverbs. So if I had to restock my reverbs I would get these: Cinematic Rooms, Tai Chi, Quantum 2772, and Eventide SP 2016 (for some retro room flair).


----------



## Living Fossil

musicalweather said:


> What do those of you who regularly use Phoenix/Nimbus or R2/R4 plan to do, if anything?


I hope they will still run for a long time without being updated.

And I don't agree that you can simply replace them by Cinematic Rooms Pro and all of the other mentioned good/bad reverbs.
They have their strenghts that still stand out which I haven't found a replacement for in other reverbs.
(and I own lots of them and also spend lots of time with them...)


----------



## José Herring

Living Fossil said:


> I hope they will still run for a long time without being updated.
> 
> And I don't agree that you can simply replace them by Cinematic Rooms Pro and all of the other mentioned good/bad reverbs.
> They have their strenghts that still stand out which I haven't found a replacement for in other reverbs.
> (and I own lots of them and also spend lots of time with them...)


Curious. What do you find outstanding about them? 

I agree they will work on my system for a very long time as long as VST3 is a standard, but I have found R2 and R4 plugins that I can live without. But, I'm willing to change my mind.


----------



## Crowe

Not being at the mercy of the whims of a computer manufacturer would probably be step one to ensure longevity of any software, discontinued or not.

Got no advice, I'll probably be using these plugins for the next 15 years still, if I don't get tired of them.


----------



## easyrider

I mostly use the Lexicon PCM native reverb bundle…and I’ve got Eventide etc…

I’ve pretty much ditched Izotope as a company.


----------



## Living Fossil

José Herring said:


> Curious. What do you find outstanding about them?


I have them since the beginning (as Phoenix and R2) and over the years I've made some presets that are perfect for some of my needs.
E.g. for situations where I need an additional reverb on an instrument to put it further behind in a room without getting the impression of having more reverb or getting any coloration. Perfectly transparent yet extremely efficient in regards to the placement in room. Perfect for all kind of orchestral instruments that are "dry-ish" samples.

And on R4 I have some settings that belong to the "Exploding Chamber" category which I use for lots of percussions. That give a fresh breeze of a reacting room. Again without muddying the sound.

So basically some applications that I can't even remotely replicate with my other reverbs.


----------



## Ray Toler

I stopped using most iZotope stuff when they shifted future development to subscription-only. I do use RX in standalone when needed, but have replaced all of their effects, EQs, etc., with software from other, more customer-focused vendors.

It was the cancellation of Iris2, BreakTweaker, and Trash that made me a bit sad, since I do still use those from time to time. I understand retiring old products, so don't have a problem with that. My strategy has always been to freeze a machine on an operating system when big changes are afoot (e.g., when MacOS X was released). I've frozen my Mac Pro 5,1 on Mojave, and everything's going pretty nicely.

They claim they'll continue to authorize installations, but I wonder how long the installation/authorization app will run on Mojave. This is the biggest problem I have with online-only authorization: my licenses and keys - the things I actually paid for - aren't actually in my control. It would be nice if companies doing this would start committing to releasing a final version with an offline licensing mechanism. Given iZotope's behavior over the years, I'm not optimistic that they'll do the right thing, though.

I don't expect a company to support a product indefinitely, and I'm happy to take responsibility for managing my own keys, I just wish more companies would act like Valhalla.


----------



## Bman70

musicalweather said:


> So, got an email today from Izotope saying that Phoenix, R2, R4, Nimbus, and the surround versions of those plus Excalibur will be discontinued, though presets from those will be available in Symphony and Stratus. I guess maybe this is old news, but it was the first time I heard it officially. Arg! Phoenix is my go-to reverb; I have Nimbus and R4 as well. I know they will continue to work on my machine, but if I upgrade to a M1 or M2 machine, they'll no longer be accessible.
> 
> Symphony and Stratus are considerably beyond my budget; wonder if the price ever goes down significantly. I'm also wondering if I should snag a copy of Neoverb, which I can currently get from PluginAlliance for $29. From what I've heard, Neoverb seems to be using algorithms from R4...?
> 
> What do those of you who regularly use Phoenix/Nimbus or R2/R4 plan to do, if anything?


This is why we jump on price glitches especially from iZotope. 

Iris 2 (a great little fun synth / sample mangler), Trash 2, Breaktweaker... all of which I like and use... now R2, R4, R2 Surround, PhoenixVerb, PhoenixVerb Surround, NIMBUS, and Excalibur. All getting dropped, do we get a refund?


----------



## zvenx

vitocorleone123 said:


> It's been just about a year since I abandoned R4 and Nimbus due to horrid, painful audio glitches in Studio One. My resolution was to replace them with Cinematic Rooms Pro and Tai Chi.


Exactly. Once the writing was on the wall I switched all future projects to use these exact two from those exact two..
Trusth be told I think CRP and TC are better. 
rsp


----------



## Fleer

Bman70 said:


> This is why we jump on price glitches especially from iZotope.
> 
> Iris 2 (a great little fun synth / sample mangler), Trash 2, Breaktweaker... all of which I like and use... now R2, R4, R2 Surround, PhoenixVerb, PhoenixVerb Surround, NIMBUS, and Excalibur. All getting dropped, do we get a refund?


Exactly. They even suggest contacting their Customer Care department. I will indeed.


----------



## Daren Audio

Welp.
They could 'brick' Stratus and Symphony down the line so it's best to move on from Exponential Audio.


----------



## gedlig

They write that Stratus and Symphony are the pinnacle of Exponential audio reverbs, but to me Nimbus and R4 sound better. Especially the Supertail and Tale of two cities (I think that's the name) presets are like 1/3 the volume in Stratus compared to those in Nimbus.


----------



## musicalweather

Bman70 said:


> This is why we jump on price glitches especially from iZotope.
> 
> Iris 2 (a great little fun synth / sample mangler), Trash 2, Breaktweaker... all of which I like and use... now R2, R4, R2 Surround, PhoenixVerb, PhoenixVerb Surround, NIMBUS, and Excalibur. All getting dropped, do we get a refund?


I think I bought most of the reverbs for $10, which was an outlandishly low price for such high quality verbs, so I feel like I got a great value. But I don't have anything in my collection quite like the beautiful transparency of Phoenix / Nimbus. So, like @Living Fossil, I don't think I can simply replicate that sound with other reverbs. I've got SIR2, Verberate, Pro-R, Seventh Heaven, and several others, but they've all got a bit, or a lot, of color. 

Any thoughts on Neoverb?


----------



## Bman70

I bought R4 for around $40, and Breaktweaker was in a bundle with Trash 2 and Iris 2 for about $50. 

I wonder if anyone will drop in to solemnly chastise iZotope about their moral shortcomings.  Although that only seems to happen when someone misses out on a deal.


----------



## GtrString

They seem to move very quickly forward, but I still use my copy of Alloy 2 due to some presets that I really like. Works fine, so there are many more years in these codez..


----------



## YaniDee

They put their products at "no brainer" price levels, and when everyone has one (I have 20+), they either pull the plug, or come out with the new "must have" version. I bought Ozone 9 advanced in a bundle, and a month later v10 was out..
Oh well, they're nice enough to let us keep them for a while longer...


----------



## José Herring

Bman70 said:


> I bought R4 for around $40, and Breaktweaker was in a bundle with Trash 2 and Iris 2 for about $50.


Dude you got robbed! I picked up R2, R4, Trash 2 and Iris 2 for a total of about $30. 
That's what kind of led to the original purpose of this thread when I saw the mega price slashing of their flagship products. How are we suppose to know what's a "glitch" and what's a "deal" based on this company's history of not only slashing their own products but buying other companies and slashing the price on their products as well.

And now with Izotope being given away by NI as part of Komplete packages, what a confusing cluster *&#$! I don't even know if it's currently worth upgrading my Ozone 9 Advanced to 10 now. The usual $199 upgrade price seems rather steep in comparison.


----------



## vitocorleone123

I paid about $150+ for R4 and Nimbus about 6 months before the prices tanked. It was worth it - they were good when they worked.

I got them a few months before the iZotope announcement. Silly me.


----------



## Beat Kaufmann

Anyone who has been in the business longer should know that products appear and others disappear. I got my first major lesson on this point when Logic left Windows.... 

When iZotope took over Exponential Audio, it should be clear to experienced people that it was the end of the company and its products. iZotope finally bought the know how and didn't really care about the Exponetial products. In order not to offend customers, they continued to sell the products, but somewhere on side pages of iZotope's website (i.e. only half-fire). 2CAudio and other companies have also left recently ... even if it was for other reasons. So their products will die too or already are.

So learn to accept that nothing is eternal, don't spend too much time on templates that might be worthless next year for the above reasons, and save your music as untreated audio files. In 15 years you can remix them with the tools that will be available then. As mixing projects your music will be worthless and can't be loaded anymore, because e.g. Cubase doesn't exist anymore, and from half of all effects the licenses are missing, because iLok went bankrupt...

Nothing is eternal, that is the only constant.
So we have to stay awake and flexible....
Beat


----------



## Nimrod7

Beat Kaufmann said:


> and save your music as untreated audio files. In 15 years you can remix them with the tools that will be available then.


That,

I have countless projects since 2006 that they open but plugins are missing. Especially on synths there is nothing you can do to get that sound back.

I also paid $139 for Nimbus in 2016, and another $199 in 2019 to "upgade" to the Exponential Audio bundle from Izotope. 

I love the reverbs, so sad they are no more.


----------



## biomuse

2Caudio is gone belly up?? Dammit. I loved their style and products


----------



## Trash Panda

biomuse said:


> 2Caudio is gone belly up?? Dammit. I loved their style and products


Their store is still open.


----------



## vitocorleone123

biomuse said:


> 2Caudio is gone belly up?? Dammit. I loved their style and products


I’d more say they…. Imploded and then exploded (with drama). 

I was never a fan of their products, but I know many here are/were.


----------



## Paj

Iris2---bizarre but beautiful. Got one license for $1 and another one for free. Often overlooked but priceless. Is it still available via third party? An EOL sale notice might have been nice.

Paj
8^)


----------



## fakemaxwell

Retiring every other version of the Exponential reverbs makes a lot of sense, and honestly they should have done it right off the bat to avoid this exact scenario. R4 and Symphony sound 99.9999% identical with the same settings, same for the clean reverbs. Michael Carnes is a great creator but the versioning left a lot to be desired...

The reason they're doing this is entirely because of Apple. Keep that in mind the next time you're shopping for a computer.


----------



## jcrosby

Nimrod7 said:


> I love the reverbs, so sad they are no more.


The algorithms technically also still exist in Neoverb, not just Symphony, etc. Neoverb does sound different though, I actually think it sounds better. More depth, less masking/more separation... I'm not suggesting that somehow makes it fine that this happened. But it seemed clear to me that the longterm plan has been to move some of the tech to Neoverb.


----------



## vitocorleone123

jcrosby said:


> The algorithms technically also still exist in Neoverb, not just Symphony, etc. Neoverb does sound different though, I actually think it sounds better. More depth, less masking/more separation... I'm not suggesting that somehow makes it fine that this happened. But it seemed clear to me that the longterm plan has been to move some of the tech to Neoverb.


I’ll have to try Neoverb again some day. When it was new and i compared it to R4 and Nimbus, it fell short of both because it seemed to try to be both.


----------



## PaulieDC

Beat Kaufmann said:


> In 15 years you can remix them with the tools that will be available then.


THIS.

15 years ago when I was doing a lot of photo work, I kept telling my peers NOT to delete their Camera RAW files, because it the future we will have better editing tools AND better skills. Several didn't listen and are regretting it, only left w/squashed 8-bit JPGs they can't edit or print large. Same applies with your advice, thanks for that. I'm rethinking my whole audio backup strategy now.


----------



## Akoustecx

I do my best to be positive when engaing in VI-C, but here and now, I have to vent.
Neoverb simultaneously sucks and blows so hard, it's beyond me how it isn't recognised as being both black hole and supernova.
R4 and Nimbus are the 2 most versatile reverbs I know, with depths that I still have yet to fully explore. Between the angels kiss like clarity of Nimbus and the murky depths R4 offers, all without going anywhere near the warp section both have, they offer up all I need, though I will turn to the likes of Space Duck, Blackhole, or even Relayer, for more overt sound design related needs.
But Neoverb? To me, that comes across as being an exquisite recipe, from a chef of the highest order, that's been lowered to the level of a microwave ready meal, and has already been eaten at least once.
Having said that, reverb preference is as personal as love and friendship, so your opinion is at least as valid as mine.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Neoverb is a great idea. The UX in some ways is great, but the way they've organized the advanced features seems hasty, and the full flexibility of the algorithms can't be enjoyed without some of the parameters they've removed or reduced.

- There could be more visibility over the reflections and the reverb envelope, like in the original plugins. 
- The advanced panel could be per-algorithm instead of a wall of knobs that demands the kind of trimming/consolidation they did that I'm talking about now.
- Each advanced panel could be accessed via a visually-flush button near its area on the XY blend pad and contain all of the original parameters.
- An option to disable any of the algorithms to preserve CPU usage would be welcomed by many I'm sure (the original plugins were notably light)
- Preservation of all of the parameters would open up the possibility of porting all of the Michael Carnes presets to Neoverb


----------



## fiction

I'm kinda lost in all this and could use some help. 

I'm running Music Production Suite 3 (Ozone 9 Advanced and RX 7 Standard) and also have a PA Mega sub. 

I would like to upgrade Ozone and RX to 10 Advanced and Standard respectively. 

Is buying the Music Production 5 suite crossgrade from any Music Production Suite my best option? It's currently €280 with tax at PB.


----------



## Trash Panda

Did The Glitch return? Anyone without the Everything Bundle seeing this madness? 

Seriously, WTF Izotope? Can you share what you’re smoking?


----------



## Akoustecx

Trash Panda said:


> Can you share what you’re smoking?


Since the Soundwierd(🤪) merger, the crack(s) are beginning to show!


----------



## Bman70

Trash Panda said:


> Did The Glitch return? Anyone without the Everything Bundle seeing this madness?
> 
> Seriously, WTF Izotope? Can you share what you’re smoking?


we wants the link


----------



## Bman70

I have the everything bundle loyalty also listed twice, but it's $999 and $499.


----------



## Trash Panda

Bman70 said:


> we wants the link


Apologies, but I am not able to provide a link to my personal loyalty offers.


----------



## José Herring

Trash Panda said:


> Did The Glitch return? Anyone without the Everything Bundle seeing this madness?
> 
> Seriously, WTF Izotope? Can you share what you’re smoking?


Meanwhile in their marketing department.....


----------



## Michael Antrum

I'm hoping Aston Martin are using the same web developers.....


----------



## ChazC

Bman70 said:


> I have the everything bundle loyalty also listed twice, but it's $999 and $499.


Likewise - 499 here. I’m pretty much done with iZotope but 199 would be a no-brainer tbh.


----------



## gedlig

I got the everything bundle during the june glitch and the loyalty offers for it are listed at 999 and 299 xD


----------



## Phaedraz

gedlig said:


> I got the everything bundle during the june glitch and the loyalty offers for it are listed at 999 and 299 xD


Yes, same here.


----------



## cedricm

Trash Panda said:


> Did The Glitch return? Anyone without the Everything Bundle seeing this madness?
> 
> Seriously, WTF Izotope? Can you share what you’re smoking?


Unfortunately it's $499 for me. And when I click on Learn more it goes to $1,299.


----------



## Sunny Schramm

cedricm said:


> Unfortunately it's $499 for me. And when I click on Learn more it goes to $1,299.


because you go to the normal product page with "learn more" - so you got the normal 50% offer. If you click on "upgrade now" instead you get to the cart with $499 👍


----------



## cedricm

Sunny Schramm said:


> because you go to the normal product page with "learn more" - so you got the normal 50% offer. If you click on "upgrade now" instead you get to the cart with $499 👍


True, tested in the meantime.
I would have gone for it for $199. While $499 is still a good price, it's more than what I'm willing to pay with all the coming BF offers.


----------



## dunamisstudio

nope no glitch for me. Anyway Cinesamples got my money this time.


----------



## cedricm

vitocorleone123 said:


> I have RX 9 Std and MPS3 and the everything bundle is $199. That’s less than the advanced upgrade alone. Still more than I think I want to give them, though.
> 
> Really the only thing I use anymore is the standalone Ozone and once I awhile RX9 Std


I'm jealous. I have, notwithstanding older versions, elements and oddballs:
RX9 Std, Nectar 3 Plus, Neutron 3 Advanced, Ozone 9 Advanced, Neutron 4, Iris 2+all packs, Breaktweaker, Neoverb, Stutter Edit 2+all packs, Trash 2, EA R2, R4, PhoenixVerb, Excalibur, Nimbus.
But I only get $499.

Oops my bad. Somehow I was shown posts from June. Pllease ignore.


----------



## Nimrod7

cedricm said:


> But I only get $499.


There is a glitch on the glitch however that you might be able to take advantage. 

Contact support, complain that the upgrade price is too high, they will give you a 30% discount personal coupon. 

Hold on that coupon, then wait for a $199 to appear, and use on top the coupon.

Win!


----------



## SomeGuy

Please forgive me if this a dumb question but here it goes. Since the everything bundle contains both Stratus and Stratus 3D / Symphony and Symphony 3D - which should I install? If I'm only working in stereo is there any reason to install the "3D" versions?


----------



## Fleer

SomeGuy said:


> Please forgive me if this a dumb question but here it goes. Since the everything bundle contains both Stratus and Stratus 3D / Symphony and Symphony 3D - which should I install? If I'm only working in stereo is there any reason to install the "3D" versions?


None IMO. And if you’re on a Mac using AU, you can’t do 3D.


----------



## 2c-d

regarding 2CAudio. if there are 2C users here please send me PM to learn more about the situation.
you can also find information in other online forums where moderation is not so severe.

I've developed 90% of the 2CA codebase and I can support/develop the products further should be such interest from users.

I made respective posts here since march'2022 but admin removed most of them.
so it's very likely that this post will be removed shortly too.

Denis,
2CAudio Initiator, Co-founder and Lead Developer


----------



## czy01

Nimrod7 said:


> There is a glitch on the glitch however that you might be able to take advantage.
> 
> Contact support, complain that the upgrade price is too high, they will give you a 30% discount personal coupon.
> 
> Hold on that coupon, then wait for a $199 to appear, and use on top the coupon.
> 
> Win!


30% is huge!


----------



## WaveRites

Fleer said:


> None IMO. And if you’re on a Mac using AU, you can’t do 3D.


Hi @Fleer 
Can you please elaborate a bit on that, if possible?
I’m close to buying both 3D versions (private cheap offer), but work with AU in Logic.
iZotope only states “3D option is not available in AU” under system requirements, but don’t give an explanation as to why that is, or if it will be available in a future update.


----------



## Fleer

WaveRites said:


> Hi @Fleer
> Can you please elaborate a bit on that, if possible?
> I’m close to buying both 3D versions (private cheap offer), but work with AU in Logic.
> iZotope only states “3D option is not available in AU” under system requirements, but don’t give an explanation as to why that is, or if it will be available in a future update.


Sure. It’s indeed what I found when installing them on my Mac and checking Logic, showing the non-3D version.


----------



## WaveRites

Fleer said:


> Sure. It’s indeed what I found when installing them on my Mac and checking Logic, showing the non-3D version.


Thanks a lot.
I guess we won’t know if the 3D versions will ever work in AU. A bit odd that iZotope doesn’t clarify any further as to why this is or if it will work in the future.

I just bought Stratus in the Holiday bundle, but can get the 3D reverb bundle for around the same as buying the standard version of Symphony (using JOLLY50 for half off).

I am new to iZotope and only buying them for Michael Carnes’ final contribution to his great reverbs, and also being the only possible “upgrade” from Nimbus and R4.
However, I am worried about the iZotope’s seemingly expensive paid upgrades.
So I am thinking it might be a bad move getting the 3D reverb bundle as updating that might be way more expensive than updating just the standard versions.

Since, I assume, you have more experience with iZotope updates, do you (or anyone else reading this) have any thoughts or suggestions concerning this upgrade path?

Since I don’t need the 3D versions in the foreseeable future, would it be wiser to just stick with the standard versions to avoid the potential higher cost of future updates to the 3D bundle?

From your experience, aren’t the 3D versions going to be significantly more expensive to update than the standard versions?

Finally, since the standard versions are included in the 3D bundle, would it be possible to update just the standard versions, when owning the 3D bundle?

Thanks and sorry for the 20 questions


----------



## mrhood

WaveRites said:


> Thanks a lot.
> I guess we won’t know if the 3D versions will ever work in AU. A bit odd that iZotope doesn’t clarify any further as to why this is or if it will work in the future.
> 
> I just bought Stratus in the Holiday bundle, but can get the 3D reverb bundle for around the same as buying the standard version of Symphony (using JOLLY50 for half off).
> 
> I am new to iZotope and only buying them for Michael Carnes’ final contribution to his great reverbs, and also being the only possible “upgrade” from Nimbus and R4.
> However, I am worried about the iZotope’s seemingly expensive paid upgrades.
> So I am thinking it might be a bad move getting the 3D reverb bundle as updating that might be way more expensive than updating just the standard versions.
> 
> Since, I assume, you have more experience with iZotope updates, do you (or anyone else reading this) have any thoughts or suggestions concerning this upgrade path?
> 
> Since I don’t need the 3D versions in the foreseeable future, would it be wiser to just stick with the standard versions to avoid the potential higher cost of future updates to the 3D bundle?
> 
> From your experience, aren’t the 3D versions going to be significantly more expensive to update than the standard versions?
> 
> Finally, since the standard versions are included in the 3D bundle, would it be possible to update just the standard versions, when owning the 3D bundle?
> 
> Thanks and sorry for the 20 questions


I received this reply from Izotope regarding no 3D AU support:


“For the longest time, AU, apple's plug-in format, did not support higher channel counts.

Symphony and Stratus were built to take advantage or Avid Pro Tools and Steinberg's Nuendo which do have support for 10, 12, even 22 channel of surround in the 3D versions.

So Symphony 3D and Stratus 3D were only designed to install on those hosts and be used with them.

You will only be able to use the normal Symphony Surround and Stratus Surround in Logic Pro X at this time. Those should support either 8 or 10 channels though still.”



However, I can’t get them to work in AU on a surround bed in Atmos either. 

These new 3D “updates” seem to be a reskin at best of old code.

I don’t have much hope that they will release Atmos versions for AU anytime soon and will probably be an expensive update later if they do.

I’ve purchased the whole Liquidsonics set and almost all of them are full Atmos AU compatible.

Izonope!!


----------



## WaveRites

mrhood said:


> I received this reply from Izotope regarding no 3D AU support:
> 
> 
> “For the longest time, AU, apple's plug-in format, did not support higher channel counts.
> 
> Symphony and Stratus were built to take advantage or Avid Pro Tools and Steinberg's Nuendo which do have support for 10, 12, even 22 channel of surround in the 3D versions.
> 
> So Symphony 3D and Stratus 3D were only designed to install on those hosts and be used with them.
> 
> You will only be able to use the normal Symphony Surround and Stratus Surround in Logic Pro X at this time. Those should support either 8 or 10 channels though still.”
> 
> 
> 
> However, I can’t get them to work in AU on a surround bed in Atmos either.
> 
> These new 3D “updates” seem to be a reskin at best of old code.
> 
> I don’t have much hope that they will release Atmos versions for AU anytime soon and will probably be an expensive update later if they do.
> 
> I’ve purchased the whole Liquidsonics set and almost all of them are full Atmos AU compatible.
> 
> Izonope!!


Thanks a lot @mrhood - I really appreciate your input and advice.
So many bad vibes around iZotope and their business practices (and owners).
Since their products apparently do not even work as advertised, I’m more inclined to just not buy anything from them anymore.
I think I’ll just go all in on LiquidSonics instead, which was my plan to begin with, before the offer for the 3D reverb bundle appeared.


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## Fleer

I got both Stratus (3D) and Symphony (3D) when upgrading my MPS 4.1 to 5.1, which you should be able to get as a crossgrade during their regular sales for $150 if you’ve got one of their flagship apps like Neutron. That MPS bundle also gets you the other flagship apps as well as both Exponential Audio reverbs (3D) and a number of Plugin Alliance fx. Not too shabby.


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## WaveRites

Fleer said:


> I got both Stratus (3D) and Symphony (3D) when upgrading my MPS 4.1 to 5.1, which you should be able to get as a crossgrade during their regular sales for $150 if you’ve got one of their flagship apps like Neutron. That MPS bundle also gets you the other flagship apps as well as both Exponential Audio reverbs (3D) and a number of Plugin Alliance fx. Not too shabby.


Thanks Fleer, for taking the time to write a potential crossgrade plan to get Stratus and Symphony as well as a bunch of other plugins. I appreciate it very much.


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