# Genelec 'the ones' users



## davidson (Apr 5, 2021)

Anyone here using the ones? Id be interested to hear how you're connecting things up (AES or analogue), what interface you're using, monitor controller and volume management, whether you have the GLM connected 24/7, do you use a sub - anything!


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## David Kudell (Apr 5, 2021)

Hi davidson, last year I purchased a pair of Genelec 8341's and a 7360 subwoofer and I'm extremely happy with them. I did a ton of research on monitors as it's a big investment. I sold a bunch of band gear so I had a decent budget to work with.

My top contenders were Adam, ATC, PMC, Quested, and Genelec the Ones. I really like the sound of ATCs that I've heard before. And I know that HZ swears by Quested. The issue for me is I don't have a well-treated room. I did build a few DIY acoustic panels and those help with most frequencies but bass is a lot harder. So after reading a forum post here on VI Control by Charlie Clouser talking about the Ones and their GLM room correction feature, I decided to try those. I got a demo set from RSPE Audio in LA.

I didn't intend to get the sub at first, so I just demoed the 8341s with the GLM system. I'm so glad I demoed them with GLM because it made me realize just how bad my room was at bass. There were huge spikes every 20-30 Hz or so, as much as 8db. This is common with just using a bedroom as a studio. Even with bass traps this is hard to tame, I think you need diagonal walls or maybe concrete walls plus tons of bass traps to control these spikes. I'm not an expert on room acoustics by any means.

The GLM software did a great job flattening the EQ on the mids and highs. However, without the sub, it wasn't able to do as much for the bass spikes. Also, I wasn't super satisfied with the low end of the speakers by themself, as it just drops off around 45Hz...I was used to a pair of computer speakers that had a sub, so I missed the low punch on percussion and low bass. So I decided to get the 7360 sub as well.

The sub really brought it to a level of near perfection for me. The GLM software measures everything for you, not only EQ but phase and delay. It's mind boggling how much better it sounds when you turn it off and on again. It goes from being muddy and unfocused to just really clean, accurate, and balanced...not too bassy, just the right amount of bass that you can really rely on when trying to mix how loud those taikos and bass guitar should actually be. And the highs and mids are so crisp and clear, you'll hear things you never heard before, and the stereo image as you probably know is an advantage of the coaxial system.

As far as my setup, I'm just going analog out from an Apogee Duet 2. I don't have AES out on that, and the interfaces that do have AES are quite a bit more....you can get SPIDIF digital out on the new Symphony Desktop or the Apollo x6 I think (and use a SPDIF to AES converter box). Someday maybe, but for now analog sound great (especially from an Apogee interface). I even use a little Mackie mixer as monitor mixer for speakers / headphones for convenience's sake and it works fine for me.

Hope that helps, I do encourage you to do a demo, there's really no risk and it's the best way to know if they work for you.


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## Anders Wall (Apr 5, 2021)

I'm on a mixture of 8341, 8340 and a 7370 in a 7.1 system connected AES through a 9301 interface.
My "volume control" is thought the AVID MTRX interface using eucon and an iPad.
I opted out the DAD pro/mon controller, I find that once the levels are set I rarely change anything else than dim and cut/mute.

You could do the volume handling with the GLM interface, a potentiometer and some resistors connected to switches. Would be super easy to build and wouldn't cost that much.

Best of luck,

/Anders


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## charlieclouser (Apr 5, 2021)

I don't have "The Ones" yet, but I've demoed a set of 8351a + 7380 sub in my room with GLM kit.

They were astonishingly good. I did not buy at that time because a little bird told me that the 8351a would soon be replaced by 8351b, which it has. Also the 7380 (15") sub was a bit big for my room but it was all they had on the demo pile.

I am about to purchase 3x 8351b for LCR + 2x 8341b for LsRs + 2x 7370 sub + 9301a surround interface + GLM kit.

I think that if you have GLM kit + their volume knob that you do not need to have the GLM software running (or even have the computer powered up) in order for the volume knob to control monitoring level of the entire system. Knob talks to GLM box, box talks to speakers via Cat5, done. You only need to launch the GLM software on the computer to load/save/change configurations, run analysis, apply new correction curves, etc. GLM software talks to the box via USB. Box talks to all the speakers via Cat5. Calibration mic and volume knob connect to GLM box via 3.5mm stereo plugs.

I think their volume knob is a simple potentiometer wired to a stereo 3.5mm plug, so it should be possible to fabricate a slicker knob and install it into the desk surface (which is what I hope to do).

Lots of people are trying to convince me on ATC or Amphion but... Amphion were too clear and not "big" enough sounding. Great near fields but not all purpose for me. ATC suffer from driver alignment issues in near-to-mid field placement - moving my head up and down takes me in and out of the firing line of each of the three drivers. This is the issue I always had with conventional three-way monitors and this issue does NOT exist AT ALL with The Ones (or, to be fair, with other coaxial monitors I've owned in the past like Tannoy System-15dmt and other smaller Tannoys I had in the 1990's).

The point-source / co-axial driver thing is not snake oil. It's real. Whether it's crucial to you is another matter, but it is really great to me. GLM, networking of surround sets, built-in room analysis and corrective EQ that is performed on DSP located inside the speakers and stored inside the speakers, ultra-low DSP latency (less than 2ms I think), and digital inputs.... The Ones tick all the boxes for me.

Now I just have to write that check for $20k+ for the full setup. Oof.

I may also get a monitor controller, since I love having dedicated hardware buttons for mute and dim, and to mute Center and Surround speakers, etc. But pickings are slim if you want digital input AND digital output on a surround monitor controller. It's either Grace 908 (not the 905), CraneSong Avocet, or various Studio Technologies models. Actually the Studio Technologies ones are probably best for my needs. The Grace has all kinds of stuff I don't need. 

The Studio Technologies ones look unimpressive, with their 1980's script fonts on the front panels, but the feature sets are nice. Check the model comparison here:









StudioComm Loudspeaker Monitor Control Systems Feature-by-Feature Comparison Chart - Studio Technologies, Inc.


To find out which StudioComm system is right for your application, review the comparison chart.




studio-tech.com


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## davidson (Apr 6, 2021)

@David Kudell @Anders Wall @charlieclouser Thanks for taking the time, it's appreciated 

@David Kudell You're definitely putting GLM through its paces with that right hand monitor! Is there any reason you didn't go for the 8331s, what with you using a sub anyway? I very rarely monitor above 80db so can't see a good reason to go any bigger than 8331 + sub, not unless I ever move to a bigger room with less neighbours to piss off.

@Anders Wall So you're comfortable controlling the volume level digitally? I've had too many scares in the digital realm with noise bursts from my mac, I don't want to put my ears through any more damage. Do you have anything in place if you had a noise burst? How do you go about connecting up headphones with that setup?

@charlieclouser You're partly to blame for this spending spree I'm about to embark on, I hope you're feeling bad. Same questions to you as I had for Anders. Are you guys setting the max volume level physically via a pot on the back of the monitors and then using the digital controller to attenuate that?

The biggest OCD headache that I'm giving myself is reading about how connecting the monitors via AES sounds worlds better than analogue. My old faithful apollo twin doesnt have digital out so my options seem to either be spending 5 times the price for an interface with 10x as many in/outs as I need, or a cheap usb focusrite unit and using a spidf to AES convertor.

Had any of you used sonarworks, trinnov or similar before GLM? I'm happy with sonarworks but prefer the set and forget aspect of SAM, but I wonder if in 5 years sonarworks won't be much more powerful than being stuck with an underpowered in the box DSP chip with the genelecs.


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## Nimrod7 (Apr 6, 2021)

Hey Davidson,

Another happy user of 8341a here. I am expecting a 7360 sub to arrive in 5-10 days also. 
I am using an older UA Apollo 8 Duo, which doesn't have AES/EBU out, so I am taking the coaxial S/PDIF out into a Grace m905, and the AES/EBU out of the Grace into the Genelec. That way I have full digital signal flow. The m905 controls the volume digitally.

GLM is connected also all the time. I have it shutting down the monitors when the computer shuts down, which is great.


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## Anders Wall (Apr 6, 2021)

Yes, I’ve set the GLM level to be as loud as I want it to be.
Around 75db-ish.
What I then do is only to dim or cut the speakers.
There’s no way I would get spikes or burst and if so they would be at 75db not louder.
I’ve worked in 4 other rooms/studios with the same setup.
Never had any issues with loud noises.

re trinnov.
The room next to mine has it.
Great stuff, only stereo (I’m probably wrong but haven’t seen surround systems) I’ve been in three studios with stereo trinnov but never in a surround one.
They mastered a record I mixed a few weeks back.
Sounded great. He’s a great engineer, I’m not.
My mix sounded roughly the same on his systems as on mine.
It’s hard to tell when you can’t AB them.

A few years back I tried ARC, never got it to work.
It did work, but my mixes sounded even worse than without it so I uninstalled it.

You should demo the speakers you want to buy in your room.
What works for me might be awful for others.
Listen to material you know and do a few remixes of your own stuff to see what they are about.

I come from 20+ years of ... no scratch that... almost 30 years of working with Swedish tv and radio as an engineer. So I’ve been on genelecs for a long long time and know what to expect from them. And also what not to bring out in them.

When GLM came it made life a bit easier since we were able to get smaller rooms to sound flatter without to much treatment.
So OB-vans that used to sound hollow and dull started to sound kind of OK.

There are other speaker with built in DSP.
I’ve never really tried them.

Best of luck,
/Anders


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## davidson (Apr 6, 2021)

@Nimrod7 The controller for the 905 is something I've lusted after for years, what a piece of kit. Is there a reason you bypassed the 8331 and jumped to the 8341?

@Anders Wall For sure I'll run a demo here before buying, cheers.


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## Nimrod7 (Apr 6, 2021)

davidson said:


> @Nimrod7 The controller for the 905 is something I've lusted after for years, what a piece of kit. Is there a reason you bypassed the 8331 and jumped to the 8341?


I had the opportunity to listen the 8331, 41, 51 in the local dealer, and the volume output of the 41 seemed to be the best option for the size of my room and for my taste. I was debating actually between the 8351 no sub or 8341 with sub and went with the latter option.

my feeling is that the 31s are a bit small for most rooms in 2.0, or 2.1 configurations except if you don’t enjoy volume.


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## davidson (Apr 6, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> I had the opportunity to hear the 8331, 41, 51 in the local dealer, and the volume output of the 41 seemed to be the best option for the size of my room and for my taste. I was debating actually between the 8351 no sub or 8341 with sub and went with the latter option.
> 
> my feeling is that the 31s are a bit small for most rooms in 2.0, or 2.1 configurations except if you don’t enjoy volume.


Oh I enjoy volume, it's my neighbours who don't


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## charlieclouser (Apr 6, 2021)

davidson said:


> @David Kudell@charlieclouser You're partly to blame for this spending spree I'm about to embark on, I hope you're feeling bad. Same questions to you as I had for Anders. Are you guys setting the max volume level physically via a pot on the back of the monitors and then using the digital controller to attenuate that?
> 
> The biggest OCD headache that I'm giving myself is reading about how connecting the monitors via AES sounds worlds better than analogue. My old faithful apollo twin doesnt have digital out so my options seem to either be spending 5 times the price for an interface with 10x as many in/outs as I need, or a cheap usb focusrite unit and using a spidf to AES convertor.
> 
> Had any of you used sonarworks, trinnov or similar before GLM? I'm happy with sonarworks but prefer the set and forget aspect of SAM, but I wonder if in 5 years sonarworks won't be much more powerful than being stuck with an underpowered in the box DSP chip with the genelecs.


I will always prefer to leave the output of the DAW un-attenuated and use the speakers' volume control to set listening level. This is best practice. They Dynaudio AIR system I've used for 20 years does it this way, with a dedicated volume remote. Not sure if the remote actually controls the gain of the speakers' internal amps, or just attenuates the AES input once it hits the back of the speaker, but I hope it's the latter.

With the Genelec setup with no monitor controller I would use the GLM box and their $99 volume knob to control listening level.

With the Genelec setup WITH a monitor controller I would leave the Genelecs at max gain (or thereabouts) and attenuate the AES signal in the monitor controller. This is less desirable to me for technical purist reasons but I'm sure it sounds fine. The main reason I would use a monitor controller is for easy source switching and mute+solo of individual speakers in the surround array. My MOTU audio interfaces have on-board headphone outputs so I will use those.

Since I'm in surround I would need to use either the Grace 908 ($$$), TC Clarity-X, or Studio Technologies 760-03 or 780-03 monitor controllers to get surround AND digital in AND out. At the moment Studio Technilogies units look right for me. After a recent firmware upgrade, the Grace 905 has digital input AND now a digital output that is controlled by the volume knob, but it's stereo only in that department. The Grace 908 has the full whack of digital inputs and knob-controlled digital outputs in surround, but it's big dollars. Sexy though.

My reasoning behind connecting my speakers digitally is:

A) Back in the days of passive speakers with separate power amps I always heard some floor noise at idle if I put my ear right next to the speaker. Since the level knobs on the Bryston power amps were supposed to be left wide-open and the analog signal feeding them was attenuated at the source, this was an opportunity for bad gain staging and for noise to creep in. This could result in situations where you were never totally sure if the noise you were hearing had been recorded or was part of the monitoring chain. If you DID isolate some noise that had been recorded, it could only be isolated down to the level of the monitoring chain's floor noise - if the recorded noise was quieter than that it would disappear into the murk. I want to be able to hear SILENCE and the difference between that silence and what I've recorded. I grew tired of tweaking the all-analog setup, trying different cables and power sources for the amps, etc. The problems were reduced (but not eliminated) when self-powered monitors came on the scene, but the analog signal between the DAW and the monitors was still analog and a possible inlet for noise, and since the speakers on-board volume control (if there was one) had to be left wide-open just like the discrete power amps, the analog signal coming from the DAW was attenuated at the source allowing for noise to creep in even with fancy balanced cables from the DAW to the monitors. Screw ALL that!

B) When I got my first digital-input monitors those issues disappeared completely and instantly. The Dynaudio AIR system is dead silent, whether the DAW is not even turned on, or whether it's on and not playing. Volume knob settings have no effect on floor noise. I can turn them up all the way, to the point where a single hi-hat sample would take your head off, and there is no floor noise. Finally I had a system that worked as I wanted. After 20 years of that life I will never go back to an analog signal path. When I am mixing from the DAW there are no analog cables passing signal in my room except for about six inches of wiring inside the monitors themselves, from the on-board power amps to the drivers, which is unavoidable and fine by me. The only part that is unclear and not specified in marketing materials is whether the supplied volume knob (on either the Genelec or Dynaudio systems) is attenuating the AES signal before it hits the D>A inside the speaker, or whether it's digitally controlling the gain of the amps which are still being fed an un-attenuated signal that's passed through the D>A at full level. Obviously the latter is best practice.

If you need to feed the Genelec rig via analog because of your interface then I think you'll survive, but you'll definitely want the GLM kit so that you can calibrate the room with the included microphone, and from that point it's only $99 for the volume knob - so why not get that accessory? Then you can use that as your listening level control and leave the DAW outputting full level. If you like you can instead use the volume knob on the Apollo Twin to attenuate the analog signal going into the Genelec rig and leave the speakers turned up so that with the Apollo volume knob on max it's as loud as you want to go in the room. Either way I'm sure you'll love the setup - the sonic improvements on the Genelec rig is 45% from the co-axial design, 45% from the GLM analysis+correction, and only 10% from an all-digital signal path.

I have tried SonarWorks in my room, and played with Trinnov in other rooms. I did not like Sonarworks - it sounded phase-y to me but I was using v3 and now it's v4. But the workflow was unacceptably funky - inserting it on the master output of the DAW is a no-go, and the utilities to intercept the DAW's output and insert the SonarWorks plugin on the stream so that you can bounce without remembering to bypass SonarWorks is also very funky. And it didn't do surround so it was a non-starter for me. But the big flaw with SonarWorks is that its corrective EQ does cuts AND BOOSTS. This means that if you have a null, or dip in room response, at your listening position then SonarWorks will BOOST those frequencies and try to get the speakers to push more energy into that range. This will make the speakers max listening level lower (sometimes by a LOT) and lead to "the woofer's jumping out of cabinet but I still don't hear any bass" scenarios. I believe you can set SonarWorks to operate in "cuts only" mode, which is how GLM works, but it's not the default. Add up all these issues and SonarWorks is not right for me.

I played with Trinnov in a friend's room. He had a stereo-only rig with the older, huge BlueSky 2.1 system for mixing electronic / club music, and his room was not well-treated and was absolutely full of dozens of keyboards and racks and shelves full of stuff. With Trinnov turned on the sound was amazing - like a nightclub. With it turned off the sound was boxy and much worse. So for him it was a godsend but he was fighting an uphill battle with his room (which was a temporary, rented location). But Trinnov is essentially a rack mount PC with an audio card running their software. Fans, screen, the whole works. So... not for me.

When GLM and The Ones came out I was ready to just sigh and do what everybody else does which is use ATC or Amphion. I heard the Amphion and did not like them at all, and the ATC setups had the same "driver focusing" issues that all conventional three-way speakers have. But my dealer at Westlake Pro said, "Imma send you these funky looking new Genelec speakers and you got to try them and let me know what you think." So I auditioned 8351a + 7380 with GLM kit in my room and was blown away. I did not buy right then because he told me that 8351b was coming soon so I waited but I am about to pull the trigger on a big and expensive rig and hope to stay with them for the rest of my career. I got 20 years out of the Dynaudio rig so this is a real possibility. Plus I can so stuff like use a smaller 8341+7360 2.1 rig in a vacation home or hotel room and get similar sound to the big rig at home. So I'm a believer.

I think that out of all the methods of doing room analysis and corrective eq, the Genelec system is the most well-though-out system. The corrective eq curves are stored inside the speaker so the analysis software does not need to be running. The DSP is performed inside the speaker at very low latency (less than 2ms I think). The corrective eq is cuts-only. The SAM system allows for configuration of very large arrays, form stereo to 5.1 / 7.1 up to Atmos and beyond, and can accommodate multiple subwoofers during analysis and correction. They provide a volume control (although it is basic). And you can have BOTH bass management AND dedicated LFE channels active at the same time in the same system. 

All in all I think the GLM setup is the best - certainly the best for my needs but your mileage may vary. Stereo-only people have more options like SonarWorks, Trinnov, more monitor controllers, etc. but the GLM setup kicks ass even in stereo-only configurations.


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## David Kudell (Apr 6, 2021)

davidson said:


> @David Kudell @Anders Wall @charlieclouser Thanks for taking the time, it's appreciated
> 
> @David Kudell You're definitely putting GLM through its paces with that right hand monitor! Is there any reason you didn't go for the 8331s, what with you using a sub anyway? I very rarely monitor above 80db so can't see a good reason to go any bigger than 8331 + sub, not unless I ever move to a bigger room with less neighbours to piss off.


For my current setup which is a small apartment the 8331's would have probably been fine since I'm using a sub. But I plan to have a larger setup eventually and wanted to be future proof. I know the 8341's will go with me when I get a larger studio.


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## vividmoog (Apr 6, 2021)

Hi everyones,

Some interesting thoughts on the Genelec ones monitors just to say I use the 8351A 8340A and 8430A IP in my own small setup.I have considered a sub but sound pressure levels may be to high if I were to introduce a single LF subwoofer.

Regards


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## davidson (Apr 6, 2021)

Thank you everyone, that's more help than I could have hoped for and I now have much to think about


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## davidson (Apr 11, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> The corrective eq is cuts-only.


I did read that. It's one thing that bugs me with sonarworks - the safe headroom feature due to boosts and the mess that makes when mixing etc. In saying that, I'm using sonarworks currently and it adds some boosts here and there from 1k >, and I like the sound if I'm honest. What does glm do about frequencies that could do with a boost?


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## charlieclouser (Apr 11, 2021)

davidson said:


> I did read that. It's one thing that bugs me with sonarworks - the safe headroom feature due to boosts and the mess that makes when mixing etc. In saying that, I'm using sonarworks currently and it adds some boosts here and there from 1k >, and I like the sound if I'm honest. What does glm do about frequencies that could do with a boost?


I don't think GLM does anything with frequencies that need a boost. The way its eq's are configured, it's not a zillion-band transfer function, it's a bunch of parametric bands and it does what it can using those - so I doubt it would do something like "cut everything by 6db and then cut frequency range X by zero db" in order to simulate a boost. That would have a similar "lowering of headroom" effect to what SonarWorks suffers from - but at least it's not on a plugin inside the DAW or audio path.

If the room is soaking up a frequency range more than it should, it's the room's problem. The speakers are designed and tested to the point that Genelec knows they're outputting those frequencies correctly, and I think they made a wise choice in making GLM cuts-only. That at least helps with room resonances and issues with reflection from work surfaces etc.

When I tried SonarWorks in my room it built such a crazy, zillion-band correction curve that it was no surprise that I thought it sounded "phasey" and weird. With GLM I didn't have that impression, and the correction curve was less elaborate for sure.

Since trying both systems (and buying neither) I have added a TON of bass traps and treatment, and I'm not done yet. 8" of trapping on the entire front wall, corner traps floor to ceiling, a 10' x 4' x 8" ceiling cloud, and I'm waiting on 16" soffits to arrive. Once that stuff is all hung I will get the new Genelec rig in here again and see what's what, and I'll also shoot the room with SonarWorks and FuzzMeasure again as well to see if all the effort made any difference.


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## davidson (Apr 11, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> I don't think GLM does anything with frequencies that need a boost. The way its eq's are configured, it's not a zillion-band transfer function, it's a bunch of parametric bands and it does what it can using those - so I doubt it would do something like "cut everything by 6db and then cut frequency range X by zero db" in order to simulate a boost. That would have a similar "lowering of headroom" effect to what SonarWorks suffers from - but at least it's not on a plugin inside the DAW or audio path.
> 
> If the room is soaking up a frequency range more than it should, it's the room's problem. The speakers are designed and tested to the point that Genelec knows they're outputting those frequencies correctly, and I think they made a wise choice in making GLM cuts-only. That at least helps with room resonances and issues with reflection from work surfaces etc.
> 
> ...


I'm trying to get a trial with the genelecs. It'll be interesting to run them with glm and soundID separately and see what results I get. I'm also tempted to bite the bullet and jump up to the 51's minus the sub. Then finally, I can write a piece of music, but not until then.


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