# Spectrasonics' KEYSCAPE....anyone?



## Christof

It is available from today.

I would love to read some opinions or short reviews!
Especially the Acoustic grand.

Cheers!


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## Thorsten Meyer

Mine is shipping and should be here on Tuesday


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## Baron Greuner

I'm definitely getting it. Not sure how it's delivered? Is it via hardware or is it download only?

Actually I watched the video all the way through today. Providing it plays as it shows in the video, this might well be an definitive addition to any library. This possibly could be a one-stop go-to piano library if it's as good as it looks, plays and sounds.
One very interesting aspect of it, at least to me, is the different types of sound you can get from just one instrument, such as ambient, studio sound, etc.

Another thing perhaps someone can advise on, is I don't have Omnsiphere 2. So what advantage is there of beng able to load this library into Omnisphere 2?


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## Ned Bouhalassa

Your Keyscape patches can benefit from Omnisphere's built-in FX, granular engine, filters, deeeep modulation options, etc. Oh, you also get Omnisphere's thousands of patches as a bonus...!


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## dcoscina

Given that there's no intro pricing or loyalty discount (not hating, just stating), I will grab this but probably a little down the line. I own all other Spectrasonics products and have no doubt this one will be utilized a ton when I do grab it. Again, a big congrats to Eric and his team.


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## Fleer

JRRshop has it for $337 ...


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## Vision

I _think _I want this, but I'd like to hear more demo's/examples of the patches. Especially examples of the more ethereal sounds.


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## gjelul

I have the box -- looks nice! As for sounding, haven't check it out yet, but I am sure it is great (based on the demos).


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## Justus

Can't write a long answer, have to go back to the keyboard! 
Seriously, I love it! Keyscape must be one of the best sounding samples of keyboard instruments.


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## Baron Greuner

Justus that's great. What about some detail. Like the C7 for example.


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## jmvideo

Can't wait to see and hear some user demos!


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## Whatisvalis

I only see it for $379 on JJR, not $337


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## dcoscina

Damn. I watched the video again. Me want it. Looks in wallet and moths fly out.


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## Ned Bouhalassa

Here are a few examples of Keyscape taken from my recent work for television:

1. Tears Of A Mother : Grand C7 Dark Score patch


2. Falling Out of Love: Grand C7 Cinematic patch


3. A Final Plea: Hohner Planet T Echo Shift patch 


The synths are mostly Matt's superb work for Omni 2, the strings are mostly Adagio and Adagietto.


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## Fleer

Whatisvalis said:


> I only see it for $379 on JJR, not $337


Coupon code Forum.


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## dcoscina

Ned you're killing me. I'm loving the atmosphere in those piano sounds.


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## Zookes

Want it, but cannot spare expenses this month.

Can justify easily with next e-keys project tho. Very very nice.


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## chimuelo

Man or Myth.....Ned B.
Sounds great.

I went to Ilio out of habit.
399 overnighted, USB Stick.

Got a fast DAWg for this inside of Omni 2.1.
I can imagine a lite splash of granular on the bellish sounds.
But the incredibly authentic Rhodes sold me.
Actually the great performers made this decision easy too.

Thanks Ned.
Thanks Eric P.
Thanks Russ and VI Control.


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## synthpunk

Very Thomas Newman, nice. How is the playability Ned ? I know for you to forgo your PIB it must be inspiring.



dcoscina said:


> Ned you're killing me. I'm loving the atmosphere in those piano sounds.


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## Ned Bouhalassa

Thanks for the compliments, gents! Please note that in these examples, I am often exploring/limiting myself to the pp register, on purpose. There are many more colours to explore on each of these patches, made so easy with the controls. FWIW, I'm no piano player, so I will defer from making playability comments. I will, however, vouch most strongly for its composability! 

PS: Chimuelo, you won't regret!!


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## synthpunk

It's on my Xmas list.


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## Gabriel Oliveira

Thorsten Meyer said:


> Mine is shipping and should be here on Tuesday



boxed?


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## Greg

Trying to forget this exists so I don't have to carry my rhodes back down stairs. :D


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## stigc56

Fleer said:


> Coupon code Forum.


Hi Could you be a bit more specific regarding the coupon code?


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## Fleer

stigc56 said:


> Hi Could you be a bit more specific regarding the coupon code?


Sure, there's a coupon field and you best use one of these codes: Group (for 15% off) or Forum (for 10% off). Sometimes both work, sometimes none.


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## Scrianinoff

I am dying trying to download it. After having downloaded 97%, the download manager keeps saying "Reliable source serving corrupt data, 1765.69 MB remaining", then starts downloading the remaining part at a much slower speed of around 200KB/s, and after a minute again the reliable source serving corrupt data ....

If anyone has a solution then please tell me.


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## Whatisvalis

I ended up ordering it with the Forum code from JRR. Can never say no to Spectrasonics.


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## Ned Bouhalassa

Try contacting Spectrasonics' tech support:

https://www.spectrasonics.net/support/knowledgebase_view_topic.php?id=247&categoryID=72




Scrianinoff said:


> I am dying trying to download it. After having downloaded 97%, the download manager keeps saying "Reliable source serving corrupt data, 1765.69 MB remaining", then starts downloading the remaining part at a much slower speed of around 200KB/s, and after a minute again the reliable source serving corrupt data ....
> 
> If anyone has a solution then please tell me.


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## Scrianinoff

Thanks a lot Ned. Fortunately it proceeded to download without further issues after I followed the advice I found Googling the error message. It brought me to a support page for the game Elder Scrolls, that also has a "download manager" that produces the exact same error in some instances. After setting the DNS temporarily to Google's DNS server (*8.8.8.8*) and restarting Spectrasonics' download manager, it downloaded the rest without problems. It could be coincidence, maybe it just worked this time and the Google DNS server was not the fix, I will never know. But if anyone else is struggling, you might as well give it a try. Now I am off playing the thing!


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## Thorsten Meyer

Playing around with Keyscape and loving it.


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## Baron Greuner

Thorsten Meyer said:


> Playing around with Keyscape and loving it.



How does it play through the keyboard?


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## Thorsten Meyer

Baron Greuner said:


> How does it play through the keyboard?


Very nice, as they show off with those über-player in the video. Loading a video right now as a first quick overview.


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## Baron Greuner

Great thanks. Where did you load the library to? External SSDs?


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## Thorsten Meyer

Baron Greuner said:


> Great thanks. Where did you load the library to? External SSDs?


I installed it on my "MAC fusion" internal drive in my iMac.


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## Baron Greuner

Thorsten Meyer said:


> I installed it on my "MAC fusion" internal drive in my iMac.



OK thanks. Is that a good idea? That's around 77GBs on your internal drive. Perhaps it's OK and will not cause any glitches. I have an iMac too, but try to keep everything external.


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## Thorsten Meyer

A rather quick overview on what is included in the newest Virtual Instrument KEYSCAPE from Spectrasonic
Later in the video I did use different Pianos, Keyboards in combination Cinematic Studio Strings.


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## Thorsten Meyer

Baron Greuner said:


> OK thanks. Is that a good idea? That's around 77GBs on your internal drive. Perhaps it's OK and will not cause any glitches. I have an iMac too, but try to keep everything external.


The reason for me to not put it on the external SSD was "not enough space left one my SSD"


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## Baron Greuner

OK I see. Getting an error on the video Thorsten.


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## Thorsten Meyer

Baron Greuner said:


> OK I see. Getting an error on the video Thorsten.


It is still loading, just give it some youtube loading and processing time. As soon you can see the thumbnail in the post above you can watch it...

--- EDIT --> Video is now up on Youtube


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## Baron Greuner

These sound great.

Nice playing too Thorsten.

So how did you find the playability on your keyboard?


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## synthpunk

Nice job Thorsten. Although there does seem to be some glitching in the audio throughout (Mac, Firefox)

Footage from Keyscape Release Party


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## chimuelo

I'm being tortured.
I don't own any 19th century headphones where I can hear the doorbell.
I have IEMs where I can't hear anything.
So I can't practice.
Just waiting looking through the front door feverish to load this up.


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## oboemaroni

I think compared to most libraries it sounds great, but for me the acoustic pianos are still not up to the standard where I'd be happy to use it for exposed piano work - you can hear samples cutting off quite a bit in Cory Henry's pieces, the lack of half-pedaling isn't good and there are piano behaviours that sampling just can't recreate (e.g. the harmonic changes when playing quickly repeated sustained notes). Plus I'm disappointed in the upright they've chosen, I want a characterful, warm sound, the Keyscape one is too honky-tonk. I wish someone would work on a sampled/modeled hybrid to get around these issues...


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## chimuelo

You got a good ear because that's what they do until you go to Natural then the decay is more authentic.
The authenticity of the Rhodes, the 200A, the Digital Pianos and numerous others are dead on balls accurate.

Looks like Malmsjo GVI is my Grand,
PianoTeq Upright blended with KeySp Upright is fantastic,
PianoTeq 200A mixed w/ KeySp 200A is also excellent.

But KeyScape Rhodes is a standalone, totally impressed with this.

The Upright on KeyScape blended with PianoTeqs Upright is fantastic.
Due to the inherent Honk-iness of the KeyScape I had to re tune my Upright but I am very pleased.

But nothing beats the Malmsjo GVI for Grand Piano Glory, for me that is.


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## DDK

is there any kind of pre sale or is anyone selling at a discounted price??


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## Andrew Aversa

Earlier today I recorded a (live) video where I spent about an hour and a half with Keyscape. Unscripted, just my own impressions, noodling, thoughts, and browsing through sounds. I'm NOT an amazing keyboardist by any stretch so I was looking at it more from the viewpoint of a composer. I look forward to posting the YouTube video once I get it uploaded, but here are my thoughts:

Keyscape sounds fantastic. The level of detail in the recordings is excellent. Everything is clear, crisp, and full-bodied. Much like Trillian and Omnisphere, every sound has life across the entire spectrum. This means in a mix context you will probably end up doing some high / low passing, but I would generally rather have more detail than less. The playability is wonderful (helped by the easy velocity curve editor.) The effects sound really great - particularly the spatial stuff like the shimmer reverb, chorus, phaser, and tremolo, which go a long way to really making the electric pianos shine.

I thought the most interesting instruments were the unusual ones. The keys with plucked and bell tones, hybrid patches, and interesting attack characteristics. I got a lot of joy from playing these and they reminded me of the finest instruments from the Omnisphere library in the psychoacoustic / hybrid keyboards sections. The tremendous level of detail (dynamics, RR, noise layers) made everything sound amazing.

If you like vintage & retro keys this will be a particular delight. The rhodes, wurlitzer, and clavs sound incredible. Definitely the best I've used. The effects push this way beyond what Kontakt can do because (unfortunately) Kontakt lacks a really good chorus or phaser. The included presets are also great.

In terms of resource usage, these are not light instruments - though there are light patches available - so I would recommend an SSD without a doubt (or do the light installation). CPU usage seemed fine though.

Is it worth the price? Does it fall short anywhere? That depends on your expectations. If you are looking for a very deep grand piano library, you may be disappointed. The Yamaha C7 sounds good. I'm biased since ISW released a similar library, but what I will say is that it does not appear to have multiple mic positions available. Thus if you want a hall concert grand type sound, you won't find it here, but I don't think that was the point of the library anyway. Likewise you won't find other grand piano models like Steinway etc. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The C7 is wonderful and versatile, and honestly, I'm glad Spectrasonics spent most of their effort on the other keyboard sounds.

If you're looking for inspiring, DEEP and playable keyboard instruments for scoring / soundtrack purposes then you'll find a lot to love. No question about it. I'm very interested in seeing what people come up with in terms of Omnisphere hybrid sounds, as those were definitely my favorites in the library. At the time I recorded the video I hadn't yet downloaded the Omni update so I didn't get the chance to use Keyscape in Omnisphere yet.


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## Fleer

Great review. However, for a deep sampled C7 with a myriad of options, ImpactSoundworks' Pearl Grand rocks!


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## SoNowWhat?

I was thinking I would pass on this but, keep listening (can't stop) to the Rhodes demo's and I'm almost weeping. Sounds deliciously good.


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## Christof

The whole thing is excellent, so many new possibilities and timbres.
And the integration into omnisphere 2 is fantastic.
This is much more than just a keyboard collection.


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## dcoscina

I ended up buying it. Downloading now but it says it will take 8 hrs. Ouch


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## lumcas

Christof said:


> ...the integration into omnisphere 2 is fantastic.
> This is much more than just a keyboard collection.



I think this is the KEY information....this is not just another piano-synth-mallet-whatever library...


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## Ashermusic

My mind is open, but someone is going to have to prove to me in a comparison that:
1. The Rhodes sounds better than the Neo Soul rhodes.
2. The B3 sounds better than the UVI B-5.

Just for starters.


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## Eduardo Macedo

Ashermusic said:


> My mind is open, but someone is going to have to prove to me in a comparison that:
> 1. The Rhodes sounds better than the Neo Soul rhodes.
> 2. The B3 sounds better than the UVI B-5.
> 
> Just for starters.



Jay, there's no B3 in Keyscape.

https://www.spectrasonics.net/products/keyscape/keyscape-library.php


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## Fleer

Ashermusic said:


> My mind is open, but someone is going to have to prove to me in a comparison that:
> 1. The Rhodes sounds better than the Neo Soul rhodes.
> 2. The B3 sounds better than the UVI B-5.
> 
> Just for starters.


True, that Neo Soul one is the standard to measure up to.


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## chimuelo

I got Neo Soul, PianoTeq 5 Pro, both of those Rhodes won't be needed anymore.

Also installed the LITE version since I will not need much of the wind plectrum or acoustic samples.

Even took it a step further and deleted anything, even the Classic Rhodes as I prefer the custom LA version.

Now I have a super efficient Clavinet C and Rhodes, plus the FM Epiano stuff.
Have hardware Filters and FX to use where I can control the parameters.
Not a big fan of "Auto" wahs.

Reminds of Windows 10 helping me all the time, no thanks.
Cortana told me I had to take a shit twice daily recently.
Wow thanks for reminding me....

Would love to get the pictures and listings out of the browser since they can't used now.
Anyone know how to remove the cool pictures in the browser?


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## Ashermusic

Eduardo Macedo said:


> Jay, there's no B3 in Keyscape.
> 
> https://www.spectrasonics.net/products/keyscape/keyscape-library.php



Wow, that seems to me to be an odd omission for a keyboard library.

But as I say, while I am content with my present choices, my mind is open.


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## SoNowWhat?

chimuelo said:


> I got Neo Soul, PianoTeq 5 Pro, both of those Rhodes won't be needed anymore.


Oh man! You're not helping. Too much around at the moment catching my eye/ear.

...and cheers for the heads up on going twice a day. Much appreciated.


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## chimuelo

Jay you know I'm a Hammond Boehner Rhodes geek of yore.
Hammond is covered with the HX3 @ a Leslie 2101MKII.
But Keyscape Rhodes is so remarkable, and the Hohner too.
I use a TC Fireworx for wah and Filter and it's as good as the real thing.

Doing KC & The Sunshines Get Down Tonight intro with whammy bar clavicle is sick.

Lots of impressive FM Pianos too.
Thinner than the real thing but more precise being digital.
I simply blend a Rhodes with Roland stuff and it's fat city.


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## Ashermusic

Chim, since you have NeoSoul, can you post a comparison of the two?


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## chimuelo

No.
Not using a recording DAW these days, just Bidule.
I can explain my tests though.

Top of the World by the Carpenters, corny ass song but great Rhodes parts that truly make a sample sink or swim.
A+ passed

Butterfly by Hancock off of the Thrust album.
Lots of dual hand lead patterns, real choppy.
A+ passed

ppp stuff such as Light as a Feather by Chick and Flora Purim.
A+ super accurate.

If you are really into dynamics this dog will hunt.

One thing I dont like though, but fixed with the Physis K4 Velocity Table Programs was the Distorted sfz.
Kept thinking I was red lighting so I looked at mu Analog Meter (external) and nope.
Its in the sample. 
A little much for me, but sure glad its there and you can tweak that down in Velocity on Keyscape probably, not sure though.


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## chimuelo

Also _I dont know if others notice this but I comp alot with left hand while soloing, and its as if there's a little side chaining that occurs.
Most samples or phys mods I have to concentrate too much on left hand dynamics which is OK but with Keyscape the upper octaves just sit right where you want them to.
Now I can just let leftie do his thing while righty goes off on his own.

Niii-eeee-ccceeee...!!_


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## lucky909091

oboemaroni said:


> I think compared to most libraries it sounds great, but for me the acoustic pianos are still not up to the standard where I'd be happy to use it for exposed piano work - you can hear samples cutting off quite a bit in Cory Henry's pieces, the lack of half-pedaling isn't good and there are piano behaviours that sampling just can't recreate (e.g. the harmonic changes when playing quickly repeated sustained notes). Plus I'm disappointed in the upright they've chosen, I want a characterful, warm sound, the Keyscape one is too honky-tonk. I wish someone would work on a sampled/modeled hybrid to get around these issues...



...but which other library do you prefer and recommend for these purposes?


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## ag75

Is anyone finding the loading times to be quite a bit longer than Omnisphere? I'm streaming from a SSD as well. Any suggestions?


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## Ashermusic

chimuelo said:


> No.
> Not using a recording DAW these days, just Bidule.
> I can explain my tests though.
> 
> Top of the World by the Carpenters, corny ass song but great Rhodes parts that truly make a sample sink or swim.
> A+ passed
> 
> Butterfly by Hancock off of the Thrust album.
> Lots of dual hand lead patterns, real choppy.
> A+ passed
> 
> ppp stuff such as Light as a Feather by Chick and Flora Purim.
> A+ super accurate.
> 
> If you are really into dynamics this dog will hunt.



Well, playing live and sitting in a DAW mix are two different beasts.


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## chimuelo

Yepp they are.
But surely you must agree that if things sound good in the box, when it hits the FOH it's a different story.

Prime example is the VI B3 Hammonds and VI 122/147 Leslies.
They sound decent on wide nearfields or IEMs but take a big shit in the real world.
Which is why I use an FGPA Hammond emu and a real Leslie miked and re tubed.

Somethings just dont cut the mustard and live is where it's most noticable.

This Rhodes through my cabs and the mock up FOH Rig I have in a barn out back is BIG FAT SHIT.

Neo Soul and PTeq Rhodes are great in the mid range like all VIs seem to be.
Low they lose focus, high they thin out.
This Rhodes is the real deal all the way Jay.


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## zeng

I don't know if this judgement is right or not but I always felt that a library that focuses on one instrument is better than the same instrument found in a pack. For example a known brand's standalone glockenspiel library is better than a very good known brand's glockenspiel in a full percussion library (in terms of sound quality, articulations etc). So how should I consider this giant keyboard library in this perspective?


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## Twrogstudio

zeng said:


> I don't know if this judgement is right or not but I always felt that a library that focuses on one instrument is better than the same instrument found in a pack. For example a known brand's standalone glockenspiel library is better than a very good known brand's glockenspiel in a full percussion library (in terms of sound quality, articulations etc). So how should I consider this giant keyboard library in this perspective?



I get that, but it doesn't apply to Keyscape IMHO. I've been a gibbering pool of joy since getting this. I have great sampled grands, and this one is right up there with the best, but nothing revolutionary. However, virtually every other instrument in Keyscape is vastly better than anything else I've ever used as far as sampled instruments go. It's just a stunning piece of work and worthy of the praise.


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## chimuelo

The Natural preset has more sustain on the C7, but I am already past my critique of it and noticing it's blending aspects and how sweet it is loading up a C7 in Omnisphere 2 and having a blast with Strings, voices, even a choppy Detuned saw wave with a matching decay.


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## NYC Composer

That slight sample cutoff in the C7 was the first thing I noticed in the initial demo, but y'all are saying it's gone in the "natural" preset?


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## Ashermusic

I guess here is the bottom line for me. i am torn.

I like Eric as a person and I have been using products with his sounds since the mid '90's. Everything he does, he does well and with sincerity.

But this is $399 and if I am to upgrade to Omni 2 from Omni 1, it will cost me $249 for that. (I have all three of the others, but since one is an NFR, I don't qualify for the even lower price.) So basically, almost $650.

Then I look at the instrument list and given what I get hired to write, what do I use? A Rhodes, a Wurlitzer, a pianet, and a clavinet, and a piano.

Now if when I trot out my present array and play them I am feeling, "man, these just are not cutting it for me" then maybe I do this. But that isn't the case. The NeoSoul Rhodes sounds great. and their Wurlie is OK, and I also love Sampletekk's Tubed Wurlie. I hardly ever need them but I have a decent pianet (which is a very limited instrument anyway, I know because I played one a lot "back in the day") and the Logic Vintage Clavinet is also pretty decent on the rare occasion I need one.

So yes, maybe his are better. Let's say that they are. The bottom line for me is that there are an awful _lot_ of things I can buy for $650 that are potentially more difference makers for me personally.

But I feel guilty, because I want to support Eric's efforts. Not that he needs me on this, he will do just fine without me


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## NYC Composer

I don't have the NeoSoul, and that's one fact (including its not insubstantial price) that has me considering Keyscape.


I agree with Jay about a sense of loyalty to Eric. I've gotten so much use from his products, starting in the early 90s.


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## Thorsten Meyer

I focus this time on the Rhodes, interesting enough I did need to cut out a section of the first part where at the end I got to much clicks into the recording which I did not hear when I recorded it.


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## 5Lives

I almost never use an e. piano in my music (even in the pop stuff). What's more interesting to me about Keyscape though is the hybrid / sound design sort of presets. Seems like there are some fantastic opportunities there - as Thorsten's demo shows. But to me it isn't a $399 instant buy at the moment as I feel many of the sounds can be approximated by layering other libraries and effects.


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## oboemaroni

lucky909091 said:


> ...but which other library do you prefer and recommend for these purposes?


I don't, I use my upright or go into a studio, which means either hassle (tuning, mic'ing, mixing etc.) or expense... so I live for the day that someone comes up with a library which is good enough for me personally to feel I don't have to do any of that - was hoping this might be it, and actually in some cases I think it could be good enough, but there's still that question "does it sound fake?" which I hate hanging over tracks I'm working on.


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## synthpunk

I remember when $400 was a down payment on a good instrument


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## Fleer

... which you could hold and cherish


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## Baron Greuner

I played mostly Hammond organs back in the day. Not only could you hold and cherish all that lovely Cherrywood, you could actually lie down on top of it and go to sleep. Can't really do that with a Fender, although it's not impossible.


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## dbage46

ag75 said:


> Is anyone finding the loading times to be quite a bit longer than Omnisphere? I'm streaming from a SSD as well. Any suggestions?


Mac or PC? I'm on mac and realized only recently that my ext. SSD was NOT in osx extended format. I reformatted the drive to the correct mac format, copied all my sample libraries back, and my load times were SO SO much faster. Both Spectrasonics Instruments (Omni 2) and Kontakt Instruments.


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## windshore

I remember when $400 would only buy you an expansion module for the VJ-1080....


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## chimuelo

I bought these 2 x Keyscape Sound cards.
200 dollars each.


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## Thorsten Meyer

chimuelo said:


> I bought these 2 x Keyscape Sound cards.
> 200 dollars each.


Same here, did you find the driver? They get only warm but no sound here. Mine are even missing speaker connection, guess they are Bluetooth enabled


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## synthpunk

$341 usd on jrrshop btw using "Forum" discount code if that helps anyone.


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## jmvideo

synthpunk said:


> $341 usd on jrrshop btw using "Forum" discount code if that helps anyone.



Thanks!


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## ag75

dbage46 said:


> Mac or PC? I'm on mac and realized only recently that my ext. SSD was NOT in osx extended format. I reformatted the drive to the correct mac format, copied all my sample libraries back, and my load times were SO SO much faster. Both Spectrasonics Instruments (Omni 2) and Kontakt Instruments.


 I'm on a Mac and I don't think I formatted it to Mac extended. I will try that thanks!


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## Craig Sharmat

Keyscape is deep so I have not scratched the surface of the sounds but initially it's great...played a few sounds wrote a cue I am quite happy with....inspirational.


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## Ned Bouhalassa

Craig Sharmat said:


> Keyscape is deep so I have not scratched the surface of the sounds but initially it's great...played a few sounds wrote a cue I am quite happy with....inspirational.



Good move, my friend! You'll really enjoy it.


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## dcoscina

Totally worth the purchase. It feels like a real instrument and not a VI. And to think I ever doubted the sheer genius of Eric. Well I actually didn't but this cements it.


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## Vision

How are load times? I have omnisphere 2, and all of my steam software on a 7200, and it runs great.


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## lucky909091

I have put my STEAM folder on a SSD.
This is much faster than anything I know.


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## Vision

dcoscina said:


> Totally worth the purchase. It feels like a real instrument and not a VI. And to think I ever doubted the sheer genius of Eric. Well I actually didn't but this cements it.



Damnit people, stop praising this product.... :-/ arrrrgggg. Now I gotta think about making space on my ssd.


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## Christof

dcoscina said:


> It feels like a real instrument and not a VI


This is probably the best description I have heard in a long time:
A good VI should feel like a real instrument.
Thanks for that!


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## Craig Sharmat

Vision said:


> How are load times? I have omnisphere 2, and all of my steam software on a 7200, and it runs great.



seems instant, SSD drive here.


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## Vision

Craig, do you know if it's possible to separate keyscape to ssd while leaving my other steam libraries on my other drive? Or is it all or nothing?


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## Craig Sharmat

I don't know though there is something I read on moving steam folders so it may be possible...but don't trust me on that.


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## Zookes

Craig Sharmat said:


> I don't know though there is something I read on moving steam folders so it may be possible...but don't trust me on that.


This is possible, yes.

https://support.spectrasonics.net/manual/Trilian/get_started/page04.html


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## Ned Bouhalassa

Cool tutorial on using Keyscape in Omnisphere:


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## Ned Bouhalassa

And this, my friends, is how a demo should be done! Good player:


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## nordicguy

Christof said:


> This is probably the best description I have heard in a long time:
> A good VI should feel like a real instrument.
> Thanks for that!


I'd say that it depends.
Sometimes it's totally the case of course (i.e. performance based track).
Other times, you can get some amazing results getting lost in tweaking a plugs that bring you somewhere you wouldn't have thought in the first place.
Out of yourself, so to speak!
It's all about inspiration, for me at least.


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## Vision

Zookes said:


> This is possible, yes.
> 
> https://support.spectrasonics.net/manual/Trilian/get_started/page04.html



Thanks for this. I actually do have the space, but I'd still want to split the library, because Ominsphere 2 works so well on my 7200.


----------



## dcoscina

Vision said:


> Thanks for this. I actually do have the space, but I'd still want to split the library, because Ominsphere 2 works so well on my 7200.


I managed to do this yesterday. I just added another Steam folder alias link to Keyscape on another drive inside the Spectrasonics folder under application support in the user library of OS X


----------



## muziksculp

*Keyscape* is the only _Spectrasonics_ Product that didn't excite me, since I don't see any need for it, given what I already have. Hopefully their next product will be more useful, exciting, and interesting for me, and will be released before 2026


----------



## dcoscina

muziksculp said:


> *Keyscape* is the only _Spectrasonics_ Product that didn't excite me, since I don't see any need for it, given what I already have. Hopefully their next product will be more useful, exciting, and interesting for me, and will be released before 2026


Its actually got a lot more applications for media scoring than you think.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Actually, for keyboard players and non - keyboard players that write music for money, or play live, Keyscape is one of the most important libraries that has come out for quite a while. Useful is not even close to what this library will be over the long term, especially when you put it through Omnisphere 2.

IMO, this is an incredible piece of kit that will repay itself over and over again. The second this library was mooted, I became very interested because it was apparent what this library was going to be capable of very quickly, provided it was playable: which it is. A lot if single keyboard libraries at anything from $99 to $200 plus, are not playable, requiring too much investment in time and effort and generally sound like crap.

Some people buy every library that comes out and others buy libraries only after they make an educated judgement that it will give them a better than even chance to make a good return.

I could wax lyrical about Eric and his team. But I don't need to.


----------



## muziksculp

dcoscina said:


> Its actually got a lot more applications for media scoring than you think.


 
Maybe, but I don't see that at this time, maybe I'm missing something very unique here ? Isn't this just a bunch of classic Keyboard/Pianos/Electric Pianos ? what's so special about it compared to other libraries, VSTs, Hardware, ..etc. ?


----------



## prodigalson

This is a testament to the sound of keyscape:

I'm working on a film that is a glee-style "musical" feature with on-screen production numbers and have already done the bulk of production for the songs, was pretty happy with where they were, going into post. This week about to start the score. 

Just got keyscape and now I want to replace ALL the pianos/keys in the songs and I've already found several patches that are definitely going to be heavily featured in the score. 

Instantly useful


----------



## jononotbono

Baron Greuner said:


> Actually, for keyboard players and non - keyboard players that write music for money, or play live, Keyscape is one of the most important libraries that has come out for quite a while. Useful is not even close to what this library will be over the long term, especially when you put it through Omnisphere 2.
> 
> IMO, this is an incredible piece of kit that will repay itself over and over again. The second this library was mooted, I became very interested because it was apparent what this library was going to be capable of very quickly, provided it was playable: which it is. A lot if single keyboard libraries at anything from $99 to $200 plus, are not playable, requiring too much investment in time and effort and generally sound like crap.
> 
> Some people buy every library that comes out and others buy libraries only after they make an educated judgement that it will give them a better than even chance to make a good return.
> 
> I could wax lyrical about Eric and his team. But I don't need to.



I agree. I will definitely pick this up when I'm back on it writing and recording Rock and Pop stuff again. I need to pick up Omnisphere 2 first though. "Need".


----------



## dcoscina

muziksculp said:


> Maybe, but I don't see that at this time, maybe I'm missing something very unique here ? Isn't this just a bunch of classic Keyboard/Pianos/Electric Pianos ? what's so special about it compared to other libraries, VSTs, Hardware, ..etc. ?


The atmospheric patches are outstanding. There's also all the clanks and clunks in the more arcane keyboards as far a physical movement of the hammers against strings or tines that give a unique sound I've never heard before. As k mentioned earlier, it feels like a real instrument rather than a VI. Plays extremely well with Omni 2 as well.


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

muziksculp said:


> Maybe, but I don't see that at this time, maybe I'm missing something very unique here ? Isn't this just a bunch of classic Keyboard/Pianos/Electric Pianos ? what's so special about it compared to other libraries, VSTs, Hardware, ..etc. ?


watch the videos...


----------



## muziksculp

@ dcoscina , Thanks for the feedback. (Although doesn't Omnisphere offer enough of that ? Plus, I have a lot of other tools to create atmospheric sounds).

@ Patrick de Caumette, Thanks. I will watch the videos.

It will also depend how much I might need to use it, and the fact that it also needs a considerable amount of disc space is another important detail to factor in. But, I guess it is worth checking out further, to see if it clicks with me.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## chimuelo

Put STEAM Folder anywhere you want.
I prefer NVMe M.2 SSDs.

Not a big fan of yellow progress bars.

On a big less lean PC I have TBs of samples, basically my hardware cloud.
Decided to use Keyscape in Omnisphere....WOW.
Granular FM Pianos and Celestes are sick...

We're only just seeing the concept of brilliance.
Can't wait to see what patch GuRu's come up with.

Until then I'm having a blast doing old Bill Evans voicings.
I have hurt my back from standing so long since Keyscape came out.

Time to see the Masogynist....


----------



## prodigalson

muziksculp said:


> Maybe, but I don't see that at this time, maybe I'm missing something very unique here ? Isn't this just a bunch of classic Keyboard/Pianos/Electric Pianos ? what's so special about it compared to other libraries, VSTs, Hardware, ..etc. ?



The recording quality, flexibility and the PRESETS!! You don't see this in the official video but there is a ton of presets per instrument that give you a whole range of great sounding versions of the same instrument with the typical spectrasonics sound quality.


----------



## ag75

dbage46 said:


> Mac or PC? I'm on mac and realized only recently that my ext. SSD was NOT in osx extended format. I reformatted the drive to the correct mac format, copied all my sample libraries back, and my load times were SO SO much faster. Both Spectrasonics Instruments (Omni 2) and Kontakt Instruments.


Hey Thanks for this tip. I reformatted and it's loading flawlessly. thanks!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Look, there's always a lot of talk about what this piano and that piano library sounds like in sample land right?

Forget all that shit. Why? Because pianos aren't like strings, drums, certain woodwinds, brass etc. They fall apart most of the time when they're exposed. They're thin and lack body. That's not to say your Granny would notice anything other than its something that sounds like a piano. Any piano player that's Grade 6 and above will tell you there's no comparison in the way they play, sound and many other nuances. It takes way too much time to get a sample piano to sound anywhere near good. If you want a really good sounding exposed piano, hire good studio time.

Therefore, Keyscape based just on playablilty is going to make life much easier for many users based on the 'sound' and various hybrid and treated patches. We know it's not a real piano sound but it's going to be so much easier to get a good 'sound' fast, that Granny is still going to like.


----------



## Zookes

Spectrasonics maybe target bands and producers more than a granny with this price. Church groups also.

Piano patches here are good in mixes and exposed for brief times, but maybe not so good for solo. E-keys tho? Very very nice.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Baron Greuner said:


> Actually, for keyboard players and non - keyboard players that write music for money, *or play live*,


----------



## Fleer

Baron Greuner said:


> Look, there's always a lot of talk about what this piano and that piano library sounds like in sample land right?
> 
> Forget all that shit. Why? Because pianos aren't like strings, drums, certain woodwinds, brass etc. They fall apart most of the time when they're exposed. They're thin and lack body. That's not to say your Granny would notice anything other than its something that sounds like a piano. Any piano player that's Grade 6 and above will tell you there's no comparison in the way they play, sound and many other nuances. It takes way too much time to get a sample piano to sound anywhere near good. If you want a really good sounding exposed piano, hire good studio time.
> 
> Therefore, Keyscape based just on playablilty is going to make life much easier for many users based on the 'sound' and various hybrid and treated patches. We know it's not a real piano sound but it's going to be so much easier to get a good 'sound' fast, that Granny is still going to like.


True, but with playability as one and only criterion, Pianoteq would rule supreme.


----------



## dbage46

ag75 said:


> Hey Thanks for this tip. I reformatted and it's loading flawlessly. thanks!


Glad it worked out for you!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Fleer said:


> True, but with playability as one and only criterion, Pianoteq would rule supreme.



Thats true and it's probably because its a modelled piano rather than the normally aspirated sampled piano. Odd sort of tone though what?


----------



## Fleer

Baron Greuner said:


> Thats true and it's probably because its a modelled piano rather than the normally aspirated sampled piano. Odd sort of tone though what?


Truedat, but they're getting close, particularly their Steinway Model B and Blüthner. Maybe combining Pianoteq with Keycape's C7 might prove interesting.


----------



## Fer

Just curious; to keyscape owners, is actually the Yahama C7 the best sampled acoustic grand that you have? does it shine clearly over the rest of your other grands? if you have to choose between your best sampled acoustic grand and the keyscape yamaha C7...what would you choose?


----------



## Fleer

ImpactSoundworks Pearl Grand and ProductionVoices Grand Gold. Both C7.


----------



## gtrwll

Wasn't going to pick this up just yet, but a local shop is offering it for an introductory price of 299€ here in Finland...although it's not that big of a discount it's maybe enough to push me over the edge :D


----------



## Fleer

That is a fine price, almost 20% off.


----------



## synthpunk

ADSR Overview


----------



## re-peat

Very strange way to demonstrate Keyscape, having an API 2500 compressor, the Sausage Fattener AND the Fabfilter Pro-L Limiter on the Stereo Output. Because, judging by the sounds in that video (and comparing it with how Keyscape sounds at my place), those plugins don't just sit there doing nothing.

_


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira

re-peat said:


> Very strange way to demonstrate Keyscape, having an API 2500 compressor, the Sausage Fattener AND the Fabfilter Pro-L Limiter on the Stereo Output. Because, judging by the sounds in that video (and comparing it with how Keyscape sounds at my place), those plugins don't just sit there doing nothing.
> 
> _



edm boys gonna edmify


----------



## dbh

gtrwll said:


> Wasn't going to pick this up just yet, but a local shop is offering it for an introductory price of 299€ here in Finland...although it's not that big of a discount it's maybe enough to push me over the edge :D


Ha! Happened to me too. Wasn't going to jump just yet but saw the price at DLX and went for it..


----------



## Prockamanisc

Will JRRShop still have Keyscape on sale next month?


----------



## Ryan99

Prockamanisc said:


> Will JRRShop still have Keyscape on sale next month?



You should ask them...


----------



## SoNowWhat?

Ryan99 said:


> You should ask them...


----------



## noises on

Went onto the DLX site, and tried to braille my way through the buying process.....sadly it was all Finnish to me


----------



## Living Fossil

Fer said:


> Just curious; to keyscape owners, is actually the Yahama C7 the best sampled acoustic grand that you have? does it shine clearly over the rest of your other grands? if you have to choose between your best sampled acoustic grand and the keyscape yamaha C7...what would you choose?



I would be interested how the Keyscape yamaha C7 compares to the C7 of Ivory II.
(in 92% of the cases i prefer Steinways anyway and sometimes the sound of a Bösendorfer, but in some occasion the C7 is perfect)


----------



## Fleer

Anyone compared the C7 to the Cinematic Studio Series piano?
http://www.cinematicstudioseries.com/piano.html


----------



## re-peat

Ivory’s C7 was never its most appealing asset, I always thought. To me, it always sounded like a caricature of a C7, with every single one of its familiar characteristics exaggerated out of all proportion, resulting in a very hard, piercing pianosound that may have its uses (it’ll cut through even the most dense mix), but one that is not a very enjoyable thing to listen to on its own. Just my opinion, of course.

The CSP Yamaha is certainly not bad — continuing along the ‘just my opinion’-line here — but calling it great is not something I’m ready to do either. It’s a library that does quite well what I think it was sampled to do — sit all sweet and Siren-like on a bed of orchestral textures — but in a solo piece (or any part that asks a bit more from a piano than chords and/or melody lines), its limitations will be as noticeable as its strengths.

In complete contrast to Keyscape’s C7 where the note releases only appear when specifically instructed to do so, the CSP’s note releases are quite pronounced (troublesomely so, I find), and being a locked library with hardly any controls on its interface, there’s nothing to be done about that. (Nor about most anything else that you might want to adjust.)

I don’t regret the purchase (it hardly cost a thing at the time of CSS’s introduction), but it’s not a library I would ever consider seriously when looking for a virtual C7.

Keyscape’s C7 — not the final word in sampled C7’s either, it must be said — is, all things considered, a much better proposition. Sonically superior, much more timbral variety, much more editable and, of course, part of a sensational high-quality assortment of keyboards.

Talking of which: they haven’t received much attention anywhere, but some of the smaller ‘secondary’ keyboards in Keyscape — like the clavichord, pre-piano, butterfly piano, harmochord, etc … — are a _true_ treasure.

_


----------



## prodigalson

re-peat said:


> some of the smaller ‘secondary’ keyboards in Keyscape — like the clavichord, pre-piano, butterfly piano, harmochord, etc … — are a _true_ treasure.



Amen. I suspect the bulk of my use of keyscape will actually be these instruments.


----------



## Living Fossil

re-peat said:


> Ivory’s C7 was never its most appealing asset, I always thought. To me, it always sounded like a caricature of a C7, with every single one of its familiar characteristics exaggerated out of all proportion, resulting in a very hard, piercing pianosound that may have its uses (it’ll cut through even the most dense mix), but one that is not a very enjoyable thing to listen to on its own. Just my opinion, of course.



Thank you for the comparisons!
I had Ivory I for a long time, but instead of the update i bought ivory's American Grand. Which is amazing, but sometimes i missed the C7 for exactly the reasons that you describe. 
Since the only situation were i really like it's sound are those contexts...

However, two days ago i finally bought the Ivory Grand update....


----------



## Vision

So.... I keep getting intermittent stops with the Keyscape Download Manager. "Socket Transport Failed". Then, it will continue downloading. Is this normal?

Edit
Got it working.


----------



## Geoff Grace

Best,

Geoff


----------



## JohnG

I just love Eric -- he just radiates a love of music and sound.


----------



## rJames

Anyone notice that the overtones in the C7 samples around E0 are so pronounced as to prevent its use? The E0 has a loud D3 overtone. So, if you're not in a key that tolerates a b7, you're out of luck.
I tried a number of the C7 options. Unluckily, I happen to need a loud E0 pedal tone in the cue I'm working on.


----------



## Virtuoso

rJames said:


> Anyone notice that the overtones in the C7 samples around E0 are so pronounced as to prevent its use? The E0 has a loud D3 overtone.


Yes! Although not with those notes - I'm hearing a very pronounced overtone on B1 and C#1. The overtones are a slightly sharp G3 and A3. Example below:-


----------



## BigImpactSound

Will buy this for sure!
So using the group coupon gives 15% off and one just has to write 'Group' in the coupon code field?
Are there any bugs for the moment? Normally I wait to buy software until the first bugs are gone, how is it going in this case?


----------



## Fleer

BigImpactSound said:


> So using the group coupon gives 15% off and one just has to write 'Group' in the coupon code field?


If you're talking about JRR, that's the way to go. If "Group" doesn't work, try "Forum".


----------



## ionian

Virtuoso said:


> Yes! Although not with those notes - I'm hearing a very pronounced overtone on B1 and C#1. The overtones are a slightly sharp G3 and A3. Example below:-




Oh wow...those really jump out. It's almost like a resonant whistle. I wonder how Eric Persing missed that... then again getting a library of this size ready, I'm sure his ears must have been fatigued to all heck. But I wonder if they can address that or if it's too late?


----------



## BigImpactSound

Great, thanks Fleer!


----------



## virtualcomposer

Hey Keyscapers - thought I'd post this here as y'all are using Keyscape. I am only able to get one instance of Keyscape producing sound in Vienna Ensemble Pro. I'm getting midi for sure, just no meters going on the keyscape interface. Also tried loading into Omnisphere, but although it sees the keyscape library, it won't load any patches. Single click, double click, nothing. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Thorsten Meyer

virtualcomposer said:


> Hey Keyscapers - thought I'd post this here as y'all are using Keyscape. I am only able to get one instance of Keyscape producing sound in Vienna Ensemble Pro. I'm getting midi for sure, just no meters going on the keyscape interface. Also tried loading into Omnisphere, but although it sees the keyscape library, it won't load any patches. Single click, double click, nothing. Any help would be appreciated.


I updated Omni and the same issue went away


----------



## ZeroZero

I bought Keyscape on the first day and have played with it every day since. Here is _my _impression

1] It is the best electro mechanical keyboard package in my studio - the level of the game has been raised. It can't be compared to packages like NeoSoul keys which I also have. Neosoul keys is more about creating original sounds in the same genre. 

2] Though I would not describe the acouistic piano as weak, I would say that it is 8.5/10. My goto solo sound is the concert grand on my Roland 700NX (which is a little metallic), one to one comparisons with that lead me back to the Roland, though I fully appreciate that Keyscape's Yamaha is a very good instrument. It is likely to sit in a mix better. Many of the presets are very high quality and instantly give the composer the sound for that setting. As a solo practice day to day piano the Yamaha will certainly do the job, but there are better (IMO). This is more of a top quality studio engineers piano collection than a solo practice creature.

3] The Electric keyboards are the best I have heard - they wipe away the opposition, they have dirt and character.


4] There is no Hammond, but I think that's wise as the Hammond is a beast on its own. I own a few Hammond VSTs plus a real Hammond A100 -frankly no VST comes that close, but the NI B4 comes closest IMO. 

5] The electrical mechanicals are the BIG thing about Keyscape, they have the nuances that are often rinsed out of digital emulations. I don't own any of the original instruments, but I do feel like I am playing the real thing when I play them. If you were to be hyper critical then ytou can sometimes nbotice that a particular character is 'layered in' rather than being a fully integrated part of the three dimensional sound, but you would have to be listening close and have very picky, skooled ears. They are meticulously recorded and are responsive and epxressive. They all have appropriate function dials that alter the sounds in a way that is consistent with the original sound, so your not just stuck with a two dimensional sound. Though it is probably not the case that each instrument has exactly the same controls as the original (I suspect), the controls do seem to be appropriate to the keyboard in question. 

6] There are toy pianos. Some may think these are a little pointless, but this is not the case at all. Their delicate high range sounds have that mechanical instrumental noise that gives reality, they (to my mind) are much more preferable to a synth based sinusoidal bell type sound when used in a mix. Great for decoration.

7] Though these sounds would be fine for any gig, I find that they are what they say on the tin - they are VST sounds, primarily aimed at a studio. The presets are crafted by people that obviously know what is required of the sound genre to fit into song genres of different character -sad, upbeat, ballad, heavy grunge, sci-fi, spooky, spiritual, soul foood etc..Just the ticket - out of the box; but with an ability to alter in meaningful ways. Best of all worlds really. 

8] Integration with Omnisphere (2) is great. What happens is you can choose Keyscape only as a library as you wish in Omnisphere - one click. Click on a chosen sound in Omnisphere (2 only I think) sound and the Keyscape interface opens up within Omnisphere. You can stick with this, or you can click an (additional) button provided on the Keyscape interface and you go straight into the Omnisphere interface with your sound loaded as a sample set and mangle away. Could not be easier. Trillian can also be loaded this way. 
9] Keyscape comes with an FX rack. I find the fx units to be of very high quality, especially the reverbs. These racks are similar to the Omnisphere racks- if you know Omnisphere or Trillian you will be at home. Each instrument also has its own controls in another panel, these controls are instrument specific. 
Overall this is one of the best investments I have made in my studio. I think Persing has again raised the game. Basically it's a must have.

*Set up warning!*
*I have all of Spectrasonics stuff. My Steam folder is now over 160 gigs and my Sage folder (RMX) adds another 13 gigs. I would strongly adivse dedicating an SSD drive to Spectrasonics. Also, IF YOU NEED TO MOVE THE STEAM FOLDER DO THIS BEFORE INSTALLATION! For some reason my copy of Keyscape did NOT behave itself, even using the instruction for moving on Spectrasonics site, I had no luck. They also recommend moving the STEAM folder before installation. I ended up re-installing ALL of Spectrasonics packages - which share the steam folder - this took a day and a lot of rummaging in old cupbards. You can either download Keyscape, or buy it on credit card type usb drives. I found that the usb plugs on these drives was a little thinner than most USB plugs, and they waggled a bit. This meant that one of the two cards did not read well. I had to try several ports and keep very still. *

Bug wise the program seems immaculate. _Once _installed everything just works. The overall geography of the app is the same as Omnisphere and Trillian, both of which have great browsers. SO easy to find the sound you want. Groove3 have a great course on Omnisphere which teaches you this interface in depth, but for just Keyscape it is largely self explanatory. 

Eric Persing has said that he has a huge collection of retro electrical mechanical instruments and this is just a few. I fully expect that he will release more at some point. 

I hope this helps you guys

Zero


----------



## ionian

Any update on the Yamaha C7? Does it still have all the nasty resonances in the lower region that users have been posting? I was all set to pick that up and when I heard that it put the freeze on it until I see if Eric is going to fix it.


----------



## rJames

You know, Ionian, I've rethought that whole question of mine. The overtones are strong and this piano may not be right for every cue. But these strong overtones may be its strength. As I was driving to dinner one night I was listening to a classic rock station called Vinyl. The piano that winwood used on a song had very strong overtones. Other stuff like Elton John had this sound as well. It has a much more intense low end. Again, these overtones could get in the way but if you want a lively piano, this one has a bright stringy sound way down low.


----------



## Geoff Grace

In today's inbox:



Spectrasonics said:


> Keyscape 1.0.1 Updates
> 
> New MKS-20 sounds and velocity curve presets added for 40 popular keyboard controllers! Keyscape Software, Patch Library and Soundsource Library 1.0.1 updates are available to download now!



Best,

Geoff


----------



## SoNowWhat?

ZeroZero said:


> I bought Keyscape on the first day and have played with it every day since. Here is _my _impression
> 
> 1] It is the best electro mechanical keyboard package in my studio - the level of the game has been raised. It can't be compared to packages like NeoSoul keys which I also have. Neosoul keys is more about creating original sounds in the same genre.
> 
> 3] The Electric keyboards are the best I have heard - they wipe away the opposition, they have dirt and character.
> 
> 5] The electrical mechanicals are the BIG thing about Keyscape, they have the nuances that are often rinsed out of digital emulations. I don't own any of the original instruments, but I do feel like I am playing the real thing when I play them. If you were to be hyper critical then ytou can sometimes nbotice that a particular character is 'layered in' rather than being a fully integrated part of the three dimensional sound, but you would have to be listening close and have very picky, skooled ears. They are meticulously recorded and are responsive and epxressive. They all have appropriate function dials that alter the sounds in a way that is consistent with the original sound, so your not just stuck with a two dimensional sound. Though it is probably not the case that each instrument has exactly the same controls as the original (I suspect), the controls do seem to be appropriate to the keyboard in question.
> 
> I hope this helps you guys
> 
> Zero


Very helpful thank you. I'd really like to know your thoughts on compare/contrast between Keyscape and NeoSoul, in those areas that they overlap. Obviously, Keyscape covers a wider scope of instruments. Can you expand on your comment in point 1? Keyscape is on my "list" and there's a discount offer on NeoSoul now. Is it worth having both?


----------



## Joe_D

Virtuoso said:


> Yes! Although not with those notes - I'm hearing a very pronounced overtone on B1 and C#1. The overtones are a slightly sharp G3 and A3. Example below:-



Hi Virtuoso,

In addition to being a composer/performer I'm also a piano technician/rebuilder. You may be hearing one of two problems.

The first possibility is the excitation of longitudinal modes for those notes (especially on the B). Here's a one paragraph simplified description: 

When the string is displaced by the hammer perpendicular to its length, that's called a transverse mode wave motion, which is like if you smack or yank a taut clothesline and a bulge travels back and forth on the line; this is the "regular" oscillation producing most of the partials (overtones) you hear in a piano. When the string instead kind of shimmies back and forth along its length, as if you stretched a spring and then while it is immobilized at both ends you grabbed it in the middle, pulled it along its axis and then released it, that's called a longitudinal mode wave motion, which is much higher in frequency than the fundamental or lower transverse modes. When the physical makeup of the string causes a longitudinal mode to be near a transverse mode partial, energy leaks from one mode to the other, and you get that annoying high whistling sound. It can only be remedied by creating a new string with different mass/tension, so that the leakage does not occur; you cannot "voice" the hammer with needles or any other treatment to remove the longitudinal mode leakage.

The second possibility is that the two strings that make up the bichord pair for each of those notes may not match (have the same physics), in which case their inharmonicity (progressive out-of-tuneness of their partials) makes it impossible to tune all of the overtones pure at the same time when tuning the two strings of each note to each other (it's like trying to line up the lines of a piece of notebook paper with the lines on a copy of it xeroxed at 105% enlargement). In this case, the tuner must decide either to leave the lower overtones rolling slowly and woozily, or make the lower overtones closer to pure and leave some faster beating partials higher up the overtone series. Voicing can mask this problem, but not eliminate it. Once again, having new strings manufactured with different physics is the only real solution.

It sounds to me that the problem is at or near the 15th partial; that's a minor 9th higher than the higher note(s) that you are playing in the middle of your example. Try playing along with your right hand a minor 9th higher and I think you'll see that it's a closer match to the problem frequency for each note. My money is on the longitudinal mode, though the example notes are too short to hear for sure.

In any case, Spectrasonics would have to have new (probably custom) strings manufactured to solve the problem. It wouldn't be a "factory spec" C7 any more. I routinely improve problems like this when rebuilding pianos, and don't care that they're "not exactly Steinway" (or whatever brand) anymore. Many pianos have bass strings with both of these problems (this includes very fine and expensive pianos). So, Spectrasonics is just presenting an accurate picture of the real piano with their offering. As I said, I personally choose to fix these problems when the budget and situation allows it. But I'm not criticizing Spectrasonics; "warts and all" add realism.


----------



## James Bernard

Hi all,

James from Spectrasonics here... just wanted to chime in and give you a bit of background and info on this directly from Jim Wilson (http://www.lapianoservices.com) himself. 

_"All pianos resonate in different ways. Some pianos accentuate certain partials more prominently than others, seemingly randomly in the bass section._

_A vibrant harmonic structure can cause some notes to accentuate certain partials that – when focused in on – seem objectionable to some out of context. However, in context these partials can go unnoticed. _

_All pianos have what is called "inharmonicity", which is the property of the overtone series to be out of tune with the fundamental. A piano string produces an incredibly complex overtone series in a different way than say, a woodwind, or reed instrument (whose overtone series are mathematically perfect.) The fundamental frequency of a piano string is produced by the overall flexural vibration. The second partial is produced by the 1/2 segment of the string, the third partial produced by the 1/3 segment of the string, etc. Unfortunately, the "node" that divides each segment predicates that the "1/2 segment"is slightly less than exactly 1/2 of the overall length of the string. This will cause that particular segment to vibrate slightly faster than its theoretical speed. (The 1/2 segment of a string that overall is vibrating at 220 cps should theoretically vibrate at 440 cps. However, due to the small node segment in the middle that is not part of either segment, the "half segment" vibrates slightly faster and will produce a frequency of 441 cps or more)._

_That and the imperfect nature of the piano dictates that some partials will be accentuated more than others, and not always uniformly._

_Over the course of 35 years of voicing and hypercritical attention to tone, I have noticed that certain frequency anomalies can go completely unnoticed by virtually all listeners, and are much more noticeable by others. (One particular client has a 9-ft Steinway concert grand with few notes with harmonics that are extremely bothersome to this person, and yet at least five piano technicians were unable to even hear it, let alone rectify it to his tastes. This particular client considers their supersonic hearing a blessing and a curse). Something that seems quite objectionable to one person can go completely undetected by - or even be pleasing to - another._

_The actual "LA Custom" Keyscape Yamaha C7 grand piano has been used on dozens of high end recording sessions for extremely discriminating artists, with no mention of frequency anomalies."_


----------



## Fleer

Wonderful review from Ask Audio:
https://ask.audio/articles/review-spectrasonics-keyscape


----------



## TeamLeader

dcoscina said:


> I managed to do this yesterday. I just added another Steam folder alias link to Keyscape on another drive inside the Spectrasonics folder under application support in the user library of OS X



Hey there. Can you give me a step by step of this. I need to put the honking big Keyscape on a new separate drive from all the other spectrasonics stuff.

later added...
Oh I must have been dense this morning. You just mean, do the keyscape install to the new drive. May alias of its steam folder, and place alongside the other original Steam alias in app support. Got it me thinks.


----------



## Ashermusic

If you buy it, can you install it on more than 1 computer?


----------



## Eduardo Macedo

Ashermusic said:


> If you buy it, can you install it on more than 1 computer?



Yes, Jay, as stated by Spectrasonics FAQ:

*"Does this mean I can use my Spectrasonics Virtual Instruments on more than one computer at a time?*
Yes. This is no problem as long as you are the only user. "


----------



## Ashermusic

Thanks Eduardo.


----------



## Fleer

Ordered and waiting for delivery.


----------



## JohnTaylor

I installed the LITE version on my MBP, but now would like to put the FULL version on instead... Anyone know how to do this without messing anything up ? Thanks for any help ! - JT.


----------



## sneakymax

Christof said:


> It is available from today.
> 
> I would love to read some opinions or short reviews!
> Especially the Acoustic grand.
> 
> Cheers!


I'm sure you've bought it by now but just wanted to say this is THE best piano I've ever heard. Stunning tone and clarity. Especially if you're playing soft passages. The electric pianos and clavinet are stellar. Spectrasonics hit another one out of the park in my humble opinion.


----------



## James Bernard

JohnTaylor said:


> I installed the LITE version on my MBP, but now would like to put the FULL version on instead... Anyone know how to do this without messing anything up ? Thanks for any help ! - JT.


Delete the older install (you should see a Keyscape folder in the STEAM folder), then install the full version.


----------



## chasmanian

just played around with some Rhodes instruments.
short review. like 3 words.
heaven, paradise, ecstasy.
in my most humble of opinions, Keyscape would still be an extremely good deal at 10 times the price.
at its actual price, it is an absolute gift. its like they're giving it away.


----------



## John Zuker

Do the Keyscape sounds stream from disk or fully load into RAM? If I put this library on one of my SSD drives it would have to live with either East West/PLAY libs on one or Kontakt libs on the other? 

If its just about faster load times, and it doesn't stream from disk than I suppose that it could share? Otherwise, its gotta go on the old 7200 drive.


----------



## John Zuker

...Or could I use an external SSD via USB 3 as a viable alternative?


----------



## chasmanian

googled. found this. hope it answers some of your questions.
I talked to them on the telly a while back. they were very friendly and helpful. give them a call.

https://support.spectrasonics.net/manual/Keyscape/1/en/topic/streaming

https://support.spectrasonics.net/manual/Keyscape/1/en/topic/optimization

https://www.spectrasonics.net/products/keyscape/keyscape-faq.php


----------



## John Zuker

That answers it, thanks! Guess I should have looked at the source.

Wondering in general how USB 3.0 SSD drives work for samples. I'll ask on a new Hardware thread.


----------



## chasmanian

I read a little about that a couple years ago.
I remember stuff about how the rails in your computer are a factor.
its a speed thing.
my computer only supported 3 GB/sec.
that would be a limit on the speed of the whole setup. so the 6 GB/sec speed of the USB 3.0 SSD would be limited by that.
I think I described that right. hope so.
hope you can understand. if you google, you will find this worded better.


----------



## John Zuker

chasmanian said:


> I read a little about that a couple years ago.
> I remember stuff about how the rails in your computer are a factor.
> its a speed thing.
> my computer only supported 3 GB/sec.
> that would be a limit on the speed of the whole setup. so the 6 GB/sec speed of the USB 3.0 SSD would be limited by that.
> I think I described that right. hope so.
> hope you can understand. if you google, you will find this worded better.



Thanks! I'm also wondering about different library player engines living and streaming from the same SSD. Would the Spectrasonics play nicely the PLAY or Kontakt libs? I'll google that one!


----------



## chasmanian

I can only guess.
my guess is yes, if you mean one at a time.
(I must point out right away though, that Keyscape has no standalone capability. I use it my DAW, Reaper. also, I know nothing about Kontakt. so, the above is indeed a guess. I just know that I can play Ravenscroft in UVI workstation, Pianoteq in its own engine, Garritan CFX in ARIA, and all my VST's on Reaper, no problemo.)
remembered another detail, regarding external SSD question.
speed thing is all about SATA II and SATA III.
SATA II is slower. 3 GB/sec max.
SATA III is faster. 6 GB/sec max.


----------



## Fleer

Just got this juan in. Noice!


----------



## Fleer

Good comparison vid here:


----------



## Monkberry

chasmanian said:


> just played around with some Rhodes instruments.
> short review. like 3 words.
> heaven, paradise, ecstasy.
> in my most humble of opinions, Keyscape would still be an extremely good deal at 10 times the price.
> at its actual price, it is an absolute gift. its like they're giving it away.


Just installed. Couldn't agree more. The EP's are stunning!! Lots of great content all around. The Yamaha C7 doesn't matter much to me but it's useful for certain things I guess. Just scratching the surface now. Worth every penny and then some.


----------



## brett

Not sure why there's not a lot of love for the C7. Sometimes I wonder if people get hung up on specs rather than actually playing the thing, because under my fingers it just *feels* right. Immensely enjoyable. I forget it's a vst instrument

Plus, it is eminently sculpt-able. Great presets


----------



## Monkberry

brett said:


> Not sure why there's not a lot of love for the C7. Sometimes I wonder if people get hung up on specs rather than actually playing the thing, because under my fingers it just *feels* right. Immensely enjoyable. I forget it's a vst instrument
> 
> Plus, it is eminently sculpt-able. Great presets


Not a judgement on my part regarding the C7. I was more-interested in the other aspects of Keyscape. Mainly the EP's and oddities. I tend to like Steinway sample libraries but I will spend more time with the C7 when I get more familiar with everything else in Keyscape. It sounds spectacular when Cory Henry plays it but a wet noodle would sound great under his command.


----------



## chasmanian

a couple thoughts:
- I have found some presets that have the C7 combined with another instrument, to be really awesome excellent.
- Keyscape maxes out my 6th gen quadcore i5. thats on my 5 month old Dell laptop, Windows 10, in Reaper, with the main programs on an SSD, and the Keyscape sample library on a secondary SSD.
I have to use Thinning to make it work without clicks and dropouts.
- I read that Spectrasonics is gonna release a standalone app. I wonder if I'll be able to record in it. I doubt it, but then what do I know.


----------



## danwool

stigc56 said:


> Hi Could you be a bit more specific regarding the coupon code?





Fleer said:


> Coupon code Forum.


This code is still good at JRRshop.com btw, for anyone who's getting off the fence because of the new, free Keyscape Creative Library announced at NAMM. $337 with the code. ....the "Group" code mentioned earlier intros thread does not work fyi


----------



## Virtuoso

brett said:


> Not sure why there's not a lot of love for the C7.


Buried in a mix or layered with other sounds I'm sure it's fine, but as a solo instrument it has many drawbacks. No support for partial- or re-pedaling, no sympathetic resonance, weak low end, muted high end, unnatural stereo image (and only 1 mic perspective), weird resonances/harmonics on certain notes, 64 note maximum polyphony (defaults to 32!), demanding and glitch prone even on very high end systems. If you're a discerning pianist looking for a killer piano, you're going to be disappointed - my recommendation would be to check out Ivory American D, Garritan CFX or Ravenscroft 275 instead.


----------



## chasmanian

was just playing Ravenscroft 275 and Ivory ACD.
highly recommend Ravenscroft.
also love Garritan CFX.


----------



## Fleer

ImpactSoundworks Pearl Grand is a wonderful C7 to compete with Keyscape's.


----------



## Twrogstudio

FYI the Keyscape C7 just received an update. Haven't checked it yet, but....

"• Thinning optimization dramatically improves performance on LA Custom C7 Patches
• Adds “TWEAK” page to LA Custom C7 Patches for more detailed control"


----------



## Guy Rowland

Virtuoso said:


> Buried in a mix or layered with other sounds I'm sure it's fine, but as a solo instrument it has many drawbacks. No support for partial- or re-pedaling, no sympathetic resonance, weak low end, muted high end, unnatural stereo image (and only 1 mic perspective), weird resonances/harmonics on certain notes, 64 note maximum polyphony (defaults to 32!), demanding and glitch prone even on very high end systems. If you're a discerning pianist looking for a killer piano, you're going to be disappointed - my recommendation would be to check out Ivory American D, Garritan CFX or Ravenscroft 275 instead.



...and I'd add the recent Komplete pianos (Grandeur etc) - they have far more life and character in them imo, and are consistently overlooked for reasons I cannot fathom. The Keyscape C7 is quite a weak spot, imo - just feels dead when you release the keys (and yes, that's with the releases turned on). Oh, and the stereo width is ridiculous.

I thought the electrics and toys the far better parts of the library, and now Creative really does give the product the must-have status it has previously lacked.


----------



## Twrogstudio

Just going through the new Creative presets. I may not be heard from for a few of days...by anyone


----------



## chasmanian

wouldyou please elaborate about Creative?
I do not have Omnisphere, so I cannot get Creative?


----------



## Guy Rowland

chasmanian said:


> wouldyou please elaborate about Creative?
> I do not have Omnisphere, so I cannot get Creative?



No, it's for owners of both Keyscape and Omni 2. Well worth it, imo.


----------



## chasmanian

thank you.
I've checked out Omnisphere on youtube a tiny bit.
I didn't get the feeling that I really need it.
but, I think Keyscape is quite extraordinary.
to say a little more:
I'm just an amateur guy that likes to play. alot.
hugely disappointed in the LA Custom C7. 
but I only played it through headphones.
but one day I played it through a speaker. that sounded really good!!!
last thing I have to say:
I bought a dell laptop with an i5, ssd's, 16 GB RAM.
it will not play duo instruments nor some individual instruments without glitching horribly.
I can click Thinning, but the sound is not as good.
wondering if the update will help.
guessing I really need to get an i7, perhaps a desktop, blah blah blah....


----------



## Ashermusic

I am SO tempted but waiting for the NeoSoul update first and also another developer showed me a really good Wurlitzer at NAMM yesterday.


----------



## SoNowWhat?

Guy Rowland said:


> ...and I'd add the recent Komplete pianos (Grandeur etc) - they have far more life and character in them imo, and are consistently overlooked for reasons I cannot fathom. The Keyscape C7 is quite a weak spot, imo - just feels dead when you release the keys (and yes, that's with the releases turned on). Oh, and the stereo width is ridiculous.
> 
> I thought the electrics and toys the far better parts of the library, and now Creative really does give the product the must-have status it has previously lacked.


Agree re Komplete Pianos. I really enjoy playing The Grandeur and lately have been exploring The Maverick more (it's resonant snap shots are lovely for Gymnopaedie No.1). I've held off getting another piano, though was close on a couple of occasions as I think they're quite useful.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I have that NI collection of pianos.

Compared to the equivalent pianos in Keyscape, I'm afraid to have to tell you they don't really stand up to any real scrutiny.

It really depends on your skill as a keyboard player.


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira

Baron Greuner said:


> I have that NI collection of pianos.
> 
> Compared to the equivalent pianos in Keyscape, I'm afraid to have to tell you they don't really stand up to any real scrutiny.
> 
> It really depends on your skill as a keyboard player.



good enough for John Powell.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Gabriel Oliveira said:


> good enough for John Powell.



He's almost certainly a crap keyboard player then.


----------



## brett

It's important to distinguish between sound and playability. Of course, ideally we strive for both, but re-pedaling, sympathetic resonance etc - these are just impressive specs and don't necessarily translate into a playable piano. 

Many years ago I read an article where Hans Zimmer described loving (I think it was) the old Roland MKS-20 (?) digital piano module not because it sounded like a piano (it didn't) but because it *responded* like a piano


----------



## chasmanian

I was just playing Keyscape, after installing the latest updates.
it is just heaven. thats what it is.


----------



## nmortho

I have been using Keyscape for the past two weeks and I cannot get it to work without popping/crackeles/dropout on my Windows 10 laptop no matter what I do. I have the newest Surface Book with Performance Base which has been hailed as the most powerful laptop on the planet. Here are the specs: i7 processor running at 2.81 GHZ, 16 GB of RAM, and a 1TB SSD. I am using Bitwig Studios as my host, a NI Audio 6 interface, and both a NI Komplete Kontrol S49 and a Roland RD-800 as my MIDI controllers. Even if I use Thinning, set the voices to 16, up the samples to 256, and try everything else under the sun, I still get audio pops, crackles, and dropout that make using the software impossible. The C7 sounds great when it is not popping, but I can't perform with it under these conditions. Spectrasonics has been working with me but has not been able to find a solution. I also own Omnisphere 2 and have no problems with that. Does anyone have suggestions about how I can get this to work?


----------



## nmortho

chasmanian said:


> a couple thoughts:
> - I have found some presets that have the C7 combined with another instrument, to be really awesome excellent.
> - Keyscape maxes out my 6th gen quadcore i5. thats on my 5 month old Dell laptop, Windows 10, in Reaper, with the main programs on an SSD, and the Keyscape sample library on a secondary SSD.
> I have to use Thinning to make it work without clicks and dropouts.
> - I read that Spectrasonics is gonna release a standalone app. I wonder if I'll be able to record in it. I doubt it, but then what do I know.


----------



## nmortho

Does anyone have a laptop that is powerful enough to run Keyscape? My brand new Microsoft Surface i7 with Performance Base cannot handle it with out clicks and dropouts (even in Thinning mode)


----------



## chasmanian

I am no expert.
that said, I just tried Keyscape on a 3 year old HP laptop with a 4th gen i7.
the boot drive is a 5400 rpm hdd. the sample library is on an mSATA SSD.
it works pretty good.
still some minor crackling or pops.....some kind of artifacts anyway.
my new Dell with the i5 does not cut it.
I really do not know much. Keyscape suggested I use the thinning function. I don't want to.
a friend told me that what I really need is a desktop. the cpu's that are in laptops are not as strong as the desktop cpu's.
next time I buy a computer, its going to be a desktop, and I will buy it from a guy who builds them specifically for the audio recording studio environment.
thats all I know.
aside from usual recommendations for tweaks, shut off wifi, and a whole bunch of other tweaks.
good luck. I definitely feel your pain.
I am thrilled that Keyscape is working better on my HP with the i7. it still struggles with many instruments and duos. but, I am making the best of it until I buy a desktop.


----------



## SoNowWhat?

Baron Greuner said:


> I have that NI collection of pianos.
> 
> Compared to the equivalent pianos in Keyscape, I'm afraid to have to tell you they don't really stand up to any real scrutiny.
> 
> It really depends on your skill as a keyboard player.


Cheers Baron. Do you have any experience with the VI Labs True Keys pianos? See here. 

I've been playing keys since my 5th birthday which is hmmm approaching 40 years (holy crap!! How did that happen!). Sure, I'm not a virtuoso but I "get by". I still very much appreciate your comments and have no doubt there are better piano VIs out there and I'm interested in the deal above.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I should certainly hope after 40 years of playing you do more than get by. 

I don't have any experience of VI labs pianos.

The trouble for people like me is years of no computers, £.s.d. No cell phones, no sample libraries, having to go from studio to studio playing an array of different keyboards live, ect ect.

So in short, said it many times, sampled pianos on midi keyboards the way things stand today, is a regressive step IMO.

However, the way EP puts stuff together has always been a step up and Keyscape at the very least, gives quite a few positive options.


----------



## khollister

I'm way late to the party, but Keyscape Creative tipped me over the edge and I just purchased Keyscape. The Rhodes, Wurli's, clav's, etc are just amazing and seem so much more alive than anything else I had - an amazing library and the Creative patches are icing on the cake.

Like many here, I'm of a mixed mind on the C7 piano. I love the warmer tone (not at all what I expected from a Yamaha) and the playability is excellent, but the registers below middle C have extremely short releases, even with the Natural preset and the release parameters turned up. When I play staccato chords, there are virtually no sympathetic harmonics present compared to either a real piano or my other "A-list" sampled pianos (Galaxy Vintage D, Ivory American D, VI Labs Ravencroft, Imperfect Samples Walnut Steinway). The registers above middle C sound far more natural, maybe even the best of my modest collection in that regard. It's just odd why things are so different below that.

Of course adding a bit of Nimbus Small Recital Hall and mixing with other instruments pretty much obscures the shortfall, but I do wonder what Eric was thinking. They clearly spent a ton of money and time prepping this particular instrument, and didn't seem to be too worried about memory, but I also can't believe this instrument actually sounds like that in real life. Not a big issue for me personally because I didn't buy this for yet another grand piano - the electric pianos, clavs and assorted exotic plucked and hammered instruments justifies the cost of this thing alone.

My observations on performance ...

I'm running this inside Cubase 9 on a i7-6850 6 core Windows 10 box with 64GB of Ram and a RME UCX on USB. I'm amazed at how low the ASIO CPU hit is in Cubase at 128 samples with 64 voice poly - I was expecting something more demanding based on some of the comments here. However the load times are rather glacial compared to anything else I own. My STEAM folder is on a pair of striped 1TB 850 Evo SSD's connected to SATA3 ports on the motherboard, so It's not like I have disk IO limitations. With PLAY 5, even my Hollywood Strings Diamond patches load quicker than this. Again, not a show=stopper for me, but I wasn't expecting this level of sloth.


----------



## Ashermusic

I have been on the fence. CJ Vanston said to me "buy Keyscape and that is all you need for those instruments". Steve Porcaro is using the C7 on the new Toto album and loves it, although he often replaces the parts later with his MIDI-ed acoustic piano.

But I am so happy with the NeoSoul Rhodes and Indiginus Wurl-e and I have so many good sampled pianos, I just have not pulled the trigger, especially in light of how demanding Keyscape is.


----------



## Vision

Ashermusic said:


> I have been on the fence. CJ Vanston said to me "buy Keyscape and that is all you need for those instruments". Steve Porcaro is using the C7 on the new Toto album and loves it, although he often replaces the parts later with his MIDI-ed acoustic piano.
> 
> But I am so happy with the NeoSoul Rhodes and Indiginus Wurl-e and I have so many good sampled pianos, I just have not pulled the trigger, especially in light of how demanding Keyscape is.



Just get it, it's actually not all that demanding. I'm running it off if an old 7200 rpm drive. Keyscape is one of those libraries that you don't know you need until you have it.


----------



## Ashermusic

Vision said:


> Just get it, it's actually not all that demanding. I'm running it off if an old 7200 rpm drive. Keyscape is one of those libraries that you don't know you need until you have it.



Could I impose on you to be more specific about what you find that you needed from it if you already had a great Rhodes, Wurlitzer, and acoustic pianos?


----------



## Lee Blaske

It's a very well put-together library like all of Spectrasonics products. The C7 is nicely done, but there is a LOT of competition out there regarding sampled pianos, and I don't know if it particularly stands out. The combo patches are really nice. Lots of the other instruments are very nice (I particularly like the celesta). If you have Omnisphere, the patches that combine the two instruments are very nice.

But, if you already have good representations of the instruments in question, you probably don't need it. Again, it's a great product, but I'm not sure it's life-changing (in the way that I consider Omnisphere to be life-changing).


----------



## Ashermusic

Lee Blaske said:


> It's a very well put-together library like all of Spectrasonics products. The C7 is nicely done, but there is a LOT of competition out there regarding sampled pianos, and I don't know if it particularly stands out. The combo patches are really nice. Lots of the other instruments are very nice (I particularly like the celesta). If you have Omnisphere, the patches that combine the two instruments are very nice.
> 
> But, if you already have good representations of the instruments in question, you probably don't need it. Again, it's a great product, but I'm not sure it's life-changing (in the way that I consider Omnisphere to be life-changing).



That is how it strikes me as well.


----------



## guydoingmusic

Ashermusic said:


> Could I impose on you to be more specific about what you find that you needed from it if you already had a great Rhodes, Wurlitzer, and acoustic pianos?


Jay - I have had Keyscape since it's release. I've decided to sell my REAL Rhodes. In addition, I have essentially quit looking for a Wurli 200. It sounds like I would track it already. I have a few good samples already of both... but the detail in both of these is literally like sitting in front of the real thing. Granted, everyone's own personal experience is different due to taste and all. I really don't think you would regret that purchase though. To me -- it just responds the way you would expect the real instrument to respond and sounds amazing as well. Then, you also get the added bonus of loading them up in Omnisphere and having the ability to manipulate it into all kinds of mangled mess.  So if you're on the fence, here's a shove!! BUY IT!


----------



## Ashermusic

guydoingmusic said:


> Jay - I have had Keyscape since it's release. I've decided to sell my REAL Rhodes. In addition, I have essentially quit looking for a Wurli 200. It sounds like I would track it already. I have a few good samples already of both... but the detail in both of these is literally like sitting in front of the real thing. Granted, everyone's own personal experience is different due to taste and all. I really don't think you would regret that purchase though. To me -- it just responds the way you would expect the real instrument to respond and sounds amazing as well. Then, you also get the added bonus of loading them up in Omnisphere and having the ability to manipulate it into all kinds of mangled mess.  So if you're on the fence, here's a shove!! BUY IT!




Like I say. I played the Keyscape ons and while they are very good, they don't seem to me to be better than NeoSoul and Wurl-e, although I have not a A> B d them.


----------



## Vision

Ashermusic said:


> Could I impose on you to be more specific about what you find that you needed from it if you already had a great Rhodes, Wurlitzer, and acoustic pianos?



Sure. Well.. obviously this is all based on personal preferences. But for one, the playability of the sounds was something I noticed immediately. The default velocity curve is perfect. And I use a heavy keyboard action S90ES.. that I hate. Not to mention, the sound in general is stellar. Just for the sake of reference: I have Scarbee vintage keys, NeoSoul, Piano in Blue, East West Pianos, 8dio 1928, Kontakt Piano Collection, Una Corda.. I'm sure I'm missing a few. This isn't to say I don't use any of those other keyboard libraries anymore. But I will say Keyscape is my go-to. 

Rhodes wise, there is no better 73 I've ever heard in a VI. I'm not much of a Wurlitzer guy.. but it's great, and there are so many variations of every instrument. I didn't think I'd like the piano as much as I did until I had it in my hands. In fact, I didn't even buy it for the piano. Suggest if you have any friends in your vicinity that have it, check it out. I couldn't be the one to determine if this library is a dire need for you since you seem happy with what you have. However, if you consider yourself more of a keyboard player, and you enjoy sheer playing, Keyscape is a must in my opinion.


----------



## Vision

guydoingmusic said:


> Jay - I have had Keyscape since it's release. I've decided to sell my REAL Rhodes.



Yep. A good friend of mine was on the fence, and came over to my studio to play with Keyscape. I eventually just walked out, and let him zone out for a good hour. I told him he wouldn't use his 73 anymore after playing keyscape... And he doesn't. It's really that good.


----------



## guydoingmusic

Ashermusic said:


> Like I say. I played the Keyscape ons and while they are very good, they don't seem to me to be better than NeoSoul and Wurl-e, although I have not a A> B d them.


Gotcha... I get where you're coming from then. I don't own either of those. I personally like having an all in one solution like Keyscape offers. Personal preference is huge though. For me, I would be in the same boat as you reversing the roles here. I wouldn't be interested in those other libraries since I have Keyscape and have it covered. However, I really do like having the ability to tweak the way I do to dial in a sound I want with with the Keyscape/Omni combo. 

Having said all that-- I still don't think you would regret the purchase. But totally get where you are coming from.


----------



## Fleer

As for me, the mere fact that it blends so well with Omnisphere 2 wacked me of the fence if I ever sat there.


----------



## chasmanian

Jay, consider this another push regarding Keyscape. I think you will love it. 

hi Fleer,
I have Keyscape. and really do love it.
I am still on the fence about getting Omnisphere 2. do you possibly please have any more thoughts about that?


----------



## khollister

Ashermusic said:


> Could I impose on you to be more specific about what you find that you needed from it if you already had a great Rhodes, Wurlitzer, and acoustic pianos?



I'm not Vision, but ...

The value of this thing is the combination of the quality & variety of vintage keyboard emulations (the various clavichords, bell tone keys, vintage Roland synths, etc) along with the synthesis treatments of that source material, especially if you have Omnisphere 2 with the Creative patches.

Thinking of Keyscape as a piano, Rhodes and Wurlitzer rompler is really tunnel vision. While the electric pianos are state of the art IMHO, it is the eclectic assortment of funky, rare instruments combined with Eric's sound design chops and underlying engine that makes it the "killer app".

Unfortunately most of the demo videos (both Spectrasonics and others) focus on using it as a piano, rhodes, wurli, clav & MKS-20 rompler and miss the depth of the library. Understandable since it is huge.


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## Ashermusic

I get all that. The thing is, that most of what I get hired to write is pretty "straight ahead." I am also doing my own CD of me performing my songs and I play a lot of Rhodes and Wurlitzer parts, because I came up playing them 5-6 nights a week and love their sounds, and what I have sounds just great IMHO.

I have zero doubt that like with all his stuff Eric has done a great job and if I did not have all that I have, I would go for it in a minute, but my fear is that it will turn out like Trillian for me. When I first got it, I loved it, but now mostly only use it for upright and fretless as I prefer other Fender basses and synth basses. If it went away tomorrow, the only thing I would miss it for are the fretless basses and that is mostly just one patch.


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## khollister

Ah - got it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it



Ashermusic said:


> I get all that. The thing is, that most of what I get hired to write is pretty "straight ahead." I am also doing my own CD of me performing my songs and I play a lot of Rhodes and Wurlitzer parts, because I came up playing them 5-6 nights a week and love their sounds, and what I have sounds just great IMHO.
> 
> I have zero doubt that like with all his stuff Eric has done a great job and if I did not have all that I have, I would go for it in a minute, but my fear is that it will turn out like Trillian for me. When I first got it, I loved it, but now mostly only use it for upright and fretless as I prefer other Fender basses and synth basses. If it went away tomorrow, the only thing I would miss it for are the fretless basses and that is mostly just one patch.


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## Fleer

chasmanian said:


> hi Fleer,
> I have Keyscape. and really do love it.
> I am still on the fence about getting Omnisphere 2. do you possibly please have any more thoughts about that?


Sure. Started with Omnisphere 2 though, as I'm into soundscapes and sound design. Omni 2 on itself is exquisite and the PlugInGuru libraries, particularly the MegaMagic ones on pads, bells, winds and guitars are unbelievable. But then, together with Keyscape, sound design possibilities become infinite and Spectrasonics recently added some 1200 additional Creative Patches for free if you have both products. Conclusion? If you have none, start with Omnisphere 2. If you have Omni 2, get Keyscape. If you have Keyscape, definitely get Omnisphere 2.


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## chasmanian

wow. phenomenal.
very grateful for all of that!!!
thank you very much Fleer!!!!!


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## chasmanian

bought Omnisphere 2.
started installing.
need to select components.
I have Windows 10 Pro (just updated to Windows Creator).
I know that I will install 64 Bit Plugin.
is there any reason for me to also install the 32 Bit Plugin?
I'm guessing that I should.


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## Eduardo Macedo

chasmanian said:


> bought Omnisphere 2.
> started installing.
> need to select components.
> I have Windows 10 Pro (just updated to Windows Creator).
> I know that I will install 64 Bit Plugin.
> is there any reason for me to also install the 32 Bit Plugin?
> I'm guessing that I should.




Chasmanian, if your OS and your daw are x64, there's no reason to install the x86 version.

If the program is 32 bit, it cannot access more than 4GBytes of ram in your computer.


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## chasmanian

thank you very much Eduardo.
I am now really not sure though.
by default, both 64 Bit Plugin and 32 Bit Plugin are selected (the boxes are checked).
and Spectrasonics Tech Support (super nice guy), wrote this to me yesterday:
"Be sure *not to* change any of the installation options as you go through the steps."
so now I'm really not sure.


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## Eduardo Macedo

You can install both 32 and 64 bit plugin, but assuming you're using a OS x64, a DAW x64 and have more than 4gb of ram, the 32bit version will not be used by your DAW. 

That's just a small file (couple of mb usually) for the 32bit and another for the 64 bit, so you can safely install both if you want to.

You can always double check with Spectrasonics Tech Support. They will know better than me.


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## MillsMixx

I just bought this from Sweetwater and it'll be here next week. I love pianos and I have an endless supply of libraries in Kontakt already but even more of what made me jump off the fence was it's integration into Omnisphere and being housed in the steam engine. Endless possibilities of new sound. I've only seen and heard incredible things about it. Can't wait to start playing.


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## vms

MillsMixx said:


> I just bought this from Sweetwater and it'll be here next week. I love pianos and I have an endless supply of libraries in Kontakt already but even more of what made me jump off the fence was it's integration into Omnisphere and being housed in the steam engine. Endless possibilities of new sound. I've only seen and heard incredible things about it. Can't wait to start playing.


only incredible things..?
It is because Spectrasonics has been removing negative comments from their official Facebook & YouTube channel...


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## chasmanian

thank you very much again Eduardo.
I really love Keyscape. am very excited to see how Omnisphere 2 will expand capabilities, and unlock potentials.


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## esencia

ionian said:


> Oh wow...those really jump out. It's almost like a resonant whistle. I wonder how Eric Persing missed that... then again getting a library of this size ready, I'm sure his ears must have been fatigued to all heck. But I wonder if they can address that or if it's too late?


I have the same feeling about keyscape piano sounds. If you keep pressed the pedal, it´s really noticeable that resonant and annoying whistle...
I've been trying to change different settings to find out what´s the origin with no success.

Does any other users have the same opinion?


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## ZenFaced

This looks amazing especially for the electric keyboards which seems to be a must have. But with respect to the grand piano I was considering the Garritan CFX but this C7 sounds like it was recorded nicely. So with respect to the C7 in Keyscape few questions:

I don't see way to change mic positions for the C7 (close/mid/far). Is this a deal breaker for grand piano?

Any problems using this on VEPRO 6 (any latency for live playing) or am I better off streaming it off my external thunderbolt SSD drive with my imac (see my computer specs below)?

Thanks!


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## Pianolando

ZenFaced said:


> This looks amazing especially for the electric keyboards which seems to be a must have. But with respect to the grand piano I was considering the Garritan CFX but this C7 sounds like it was recorded nicely. So with respect to the C7 in Keyscape few questions:
> 
> I don't see way to change mic positions for the C7 (close/mid/far). Is this a deal breaker for grand piano?



I have both the Garritan CFX and Keyscape and have to say that as far as grand pianos goes Garritan is way better. The Keyscape C7 isn't nearly as deeply sampled, not as many velocity layers, no different mic positions etc and also has some unwanted noices and resonances on some keys. Garritan CFX is pure magic, but needs a good computer. Keyscapes electro acoustic instruments are very good and I use them a lot, but never the grand and rarely the upright.


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## kurtvanzo

ZenFaced said:


> This looks amazing especially for the electric keyboards which seems to be a must have. But with respect to the grand piano I was considering the Garritan CFX but this C7 sounds like it was recorded nicely. So with respect to the C7 in Keyscape few questions:
> 
> I don't see way to change mic positions for the C7 (close/mid/far). Is this a deal breaker for grand piano?
> 
> Any problems using this on VEPRO 6 (any latency for live playing) or am I better off streaming it off my external thunderbolt SSD drive with my imac (see my computer specs below)?
> 
> Thanks!


The electric keyboards in Keyscape are really the jewels- Rhodes, Custom, Wurlis, Planets, alot of funky, beautiful sounds that are recorded like this nowhere else. The Grand is a decent C7 and works well on limited systems, but it's not on par with many others that work so well. Even the newer Pianotec 6 has come a long way to sounding like a sampled piano but plays better. For now I'm liking Impact Soundwork Pearl and Soniccouture's Hammersmith.


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## ZenFaced

Got it. Thanks!


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## creativeforge

Joe_D said:


> Hi Virtuoso,
> 
> In addition to being a composer/performer I'm also a piano technician/rebuilder. You may be hearing one of two problems.
> 
> The first possibility is the excitation of longitudinal modes for those notes (especially on the B). Here's a one paragraph simplified description:
> 
> When the string is displaced by the hammer perpendicular to its length, that's called a transverse mode wave motion, which is like if you smack or yank a taut clothesline and a bulge travels back and forth on the line; this is the "regular" oscillation producing most of the partials (overtones) you hear in a piano. When the string instead kind of shimmies back and forth along its length, as if you stretched a spring and then while it is immobilized at both ends you grabbed it in the middle, pulled it along its axis and then released it, that's called a longitudinal mode wave motion, which is much higher in frequency than the fundamental or lower transverse modes. When the physical makeup of the string causes a longitudinal mode to be near a transverse mode partial, energy leaks from one mode to the other, and you get that annoying high whistling sound. It can only be remedied by creating a new string with different mass/tension, so that the leakage does not occur; you cannot "voice" the hammer with needles or any other treatment to remove the longitudinal mode leakage.
> 
> The second possibility is that the two strings that make up the bichord pair for each of those notes may not match (have the same physics), in which case their inharmonicity (progressive out-of-tuneness of their partials) makes it impossible to tune all of the overtones pure at the same time when tuning the two strings of each note to each other (it's like trying to line up the lines of a piece of notebook paper with the lines on a copy of it xeroxed at 105% enlargement). In this case, the tuner must decide either to leave the lower overtones rolling slowly and woozily, or make the lower overtones closer to pure and leave some faster beating partials higher up the overtone series. Voicing can mask this problem, but not eliminate it. Once again, having new strings manufactured with different physics is the only real solution.
> 
> It sounds to me that the problem is at or near the 15th partial; that's a minor 9th higher than the higher note(s) that you are playing in the middle of your example. Try playing along with your right hand a minor 9th higher and I think you'll see that it's a closer match to the problem frequency for each note. My money is on the longitudinal mode, though the example notes are too short to hear for sure.
> 
> In any case, Spectrasonics would have to have new (probably custom) strings manufactured to solve the problem. It wouldn't be a "factory spec" C7 any more. I routinely improve problems like this when rebuilding pianos, and don't care that they're "not exactly Steinway" (or whatever brand) anymore. Many pianos have bass strings with both of these problems (this includes very fine and expensive pianos). So, Spectrasonics is just presenting an accurate picture of the real piano with their offering. As I said, I personally choose to fix these problems when the budget and situation allows it. But I'm not criticizing Spectrasonics; "warts and all" add realism.



Wow, what a post, Joe_D. So, not sure how much you use vi pianos yourself but I would be interested in hearing you on what you'd consider, both as a performer and technician, your 3 or 5 favorite grand piano libraries, that stand well as solo instruments? 

Cheers!


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## Joe_D

creativeforge said:


> ...I would be interested in hearing you on what you'd consider, both as a performer and technician, your 3 or 5 favorite grand piano libraries, that stand well as solo instruments?



Only time for a quick reply ATM, but for sympathetic and pedal resonances as well as extreme editability, I use Pianoteq. 

As far as sampled VI's I use VI Labs American grand (Steinway) most of all. That package is on sale for a few more hours. 

I'll try to post more later.


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