# Anyone Else Think 8dio Adagio Violas Kick Ass?



## Parsifal666 (Dec 31, 2018)

I've been using these as a default for years now and got so much use out of it out of the box I neglected the manual (I know, I talk the talk and sometimes don't walk the walk...so hate me!). I realized that the "Instinct" patch I love so much is based upon one of my Gods, Jerry Goldsmith (dude we need a Composer's Toolkit for this man SOOO bad @Spitfire Team!)

There are also patches based upon Thomas (too bad not Alfred) Newman and Newton-Howard.

I also started really messing with fast legato passages and can't hear any of the boo-boos I've read here. The legato sounds excellent to my ears. I really wish there was a better vibrato control (it's hard to beat the Hein for that), but hey these violas do so much else it's forgivable for the price, at least in my eyes.

What are your thoughts on this instrument? The only thing out of the Adagio collection I thought really sucked were the violins, both the Viola and Double Bass are the balls imo.

(uh, maybe I should wait and make these pronouncements after buying the @Chris Hein viola and double bass lol! His instruments tend to change my mind about others lol!)


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## Consona (Dec 31, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> (dude we need a Composer's Toolkit for this man SOOO bad @Spitfire Team!)


But without combined patches. And I need Herrmann toolkit without combined patches as well.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 31, 2018)

Consona said:


> But without combined patches. And I need Herrmann toolkit without combined patches as well.



lol! I guess we differ my friend, I LOVE the combinations (the only one that has a bit of a fake sheen to it is the trumpet/xylophone, but I've found plenty of use for it on the short end).


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## Stanoli (Dec 31, 2018)

I bought Adaghietto in the last sale and became a fan of the sound.
On Black Friday I bought everything Adagio and Agitato (plus Anthology for free).
I think these strings have the perfect combination of brightness and warmth.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 31, 2018)

Stanoli said:


> I bought Adaghietto in the last sale and became a fan of the sound.
> On Black Friday I bought everything Adagio and Agitato (plus Anthology for free).
> I think these strings have the perfect combination of brightness and warmth.



And warmth is definitely a HUGE plus when it comes to viole. I hear that, not just in the cantabile patches.


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## novaburst (Dec 31, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> out of the Adagio collection I thought really sucked were the violins, both the Viola and Double Bass are the balls imo.



reading this did wet my taste bugs again, the violas are very appealing I do think they are processed a little to much but this may have given them that appealing tone, they growl at the lower end and very sharp from mid to high using close and mixed mic

My favourite are the cellos, I think the violins are nice apart from the glitch's that can be heard every now and then, but the violas are certainly a gem, a nice reverb is needed to make them sing


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## jtnyc (Dec 31, 2018)

The Violas are the best of the lot in my opinion


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 31, 2018)

novaburst said:


> reading this did wet my taste bugs again, the violas are very appealing I do think they are processed a little to much but this may have given them that appealing tone, they growl at the lower end and very sharp from mid to high using close and mixed mic
> 
> My favourite are the cellos, I think the violins are nice apart from the glitch's that can be heard every now and then, but the violas are certainly a gem, a nice reverb is needed to make them sing





jtnyc said:


> The Violas are the best of the lot in my opinion



I'm with you guys, the violas are tops (I wish they would have added more to the solo viola stuff, however I do _*really*_ like the way that solo sounds in general).

The double bass solo are my default for that instrument as well. I never use the violins anymore; I have other, way better libraries for that.


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## sostenuto (Dec 31, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> I'm with you guys, the violas are tops (I wish they would have added more to the solo viola stuff, however I do _*really*_ like the way that solo sounds in general).
> The double bass solo are my default for that instrument as well. I never use the violins anymore; I have other, way better libraries for that.




For those without much 8DIO yet, and after following many posts, plus Cory Pelizzari's video, can you support current Anthology purchase @ $148. ?? 
Hate to miss strong qualities, even if some key Adagio /Agitato content is changed.
Understand merits of full Adagio /Agitato, but pricey right now.


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## Wolf68 (Dec 31, 2018)

yep - These Violas are definitely on of the secret Tools. damn. now they know it all.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 31, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> For those without much 8DIO yet, and after following many posts, plus Cory Pelizzari's video, can you support current Anthology purchase @ $148. ??
> Hate to miss strong qualities, even if some key Adagio /Agitato content is changed.
> Understand merits of full Adagio /Agitato, but pricey right now.



Yow that's a pretty darn good deal. I don't own the cello so can't help you there, but I totally vouch for both the violas and double basses.


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## Wolf68 (Dec 31, 2018)

btw, to complete my praising, here's a song I wrote 2013 where the Adagio Violas Play the main role:

https://app.box.com/s/2nf6xg0ow7abc1sv685wgayovur1ah2b


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 31, 2018)

Wolf68 said:


> btw, to complete my praising, here's a song I wrote 2013 where the Adagio Violas Play the main role:
> 
> https://app.box.com/s/2nf6xg0ow7abc1sv685wgayovur1ah2b



Hey I like! It can be very expansive. Definitely a good way to show off the viole.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 31, 2018)

I still love Adagio, warts and all. Just works so well for underscore.


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## CT (Dec 31, 2018)

Consona said:


> And I need Herrmann toolkit without combined patches as well.



That's what the Studio series is for!


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## Consona (Dec 31, 2018)

miket said:


> That's what the Studio series is for!


But the sound is very different.


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## TheSigillite (Dec 31, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> I've been using these as a default for years now and got so much use out of it out of the box I neglected the manual (I know, I talk the talk and sometimes don't walk the walk...so hate me!). I realized that the "Instinct" patch I love so much is based upon one of my Gods, Jerry Goldsmith (dude we need a Composer's Toolkit for this man SOOO bad @Spitfire Team!)
> 
> There are also patches based upon Thomas (too bad not Alfred) Newman and Newton-Howard.
> 
> ...


You had me at Thomas Newman strings... Which patches would you say those are?


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 31, 2018)

http://old.8dio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/8dio_adagio_violas_1_read_me.pdf


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## Lionel Schmitt (Dec 31, 2018)

Limited but very expressive! Perhaps the most expressive I've heard.


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## whiskers (Dec 31, 2018)

Consona said:


> But without combined patches. And I need Herrmann toolkit without combined patches as well.


The ability to adjust levels & separate the combos would be mind-blowingly amazing!


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## TheSigillite (Dec 31, 2018)

Wolf68 said:


> btw, to complete my praising, here's a song I wrote 2013 where the Adagio Violas Play the main role:
> 
> https://app.box.com/s/2nf6xg0ow7abc1sv685wgayovur1ah2b


Awesome! I wasn't even considering 8DIO anthology, but now you have me on the fence.


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## quantum7 (Dec 31, 2018)

I used Adagio cellos on my last New Age album alongside my real violinist. Most people thought I had also used a real cellist.


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## whiskers (Dec 31, 2018)

quantum7 said:


> I used Adagio cellos on my last New Age album alongside my real violinist. Most people thought I had also used a real cellist.


Could I hear that album? Pretty please?


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## synthetic (Dec 31, 2018)

I also love Adagio's keyswitch endings for the legato. Takes a bit of extra work to put those in there but makes a big difference to me. Having an actual performed diminuendo vs just moving the mod wheel down is a great detail.


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## quantum7 (Dec 31, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Could I hear that album? Pretty please?



Here is a piece that the cello begins around 2:40, but it's pretty simple and the beautiful live violinist gets all the ear attention.


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## whiskers (Dec 31, 2018)

quantum7 said:


> Here is a piece that the cello begins around 2:40, but it's pretty simple and the beautiful live violinist gets all the ear attention.



Well done, very nice


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## quantum7 (Dec 31, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Well done, very nice



Thank you! This one has always been one of my favorites on that album.


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## Consona (Dec 31, 2018)

I use Adagio as a layer for my CS2. For example its sustains at the lowest dynamics sound sooo gorgerous, detailed and lively and I love layering different types of shorts, like the on bow spiccato and tapped spiccato, with CS2 shorts to give them specific flavour, very effective.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 1, 2019)

quantum7 said:


> Here is a piece that the cello begins around 2:40, but it's pretty simple and the beautiful live violinist gets all the ear attention.




The strings sound SO sweet!


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## Vik (Jan 1, 2019)

I like the tone of the Adagio Viola too, it’s has the woody kind of viola sound I like (along with the Soaring Strings and Afflatus violas and maybe some others).


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 1, 2019)

Vik said:


> I like the tone of the Adagio Viola too, it’s has the woody kind of viola sound I like (along with the Soaring Strings and Afflatus violas and maybe some others).



To me it sounds much more realistic. 

But then I love the sound of a rugged string instrument as a rule.


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## Wolf68 (Jan 1, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> Hey I like! It can be very expansive. Definitely a good way to show off the viole.






TheSigillite said:


> Awesome! I wasn't even considering 8DIO anthology, but now you have me on the fence.




Thanks a lot, Parsifal666 and The Siggillite for your kind feedback concerning my viola demo!


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## Motr3b (Jan 1, 2019)

You guys are really selling me this library ...
Does anyone know whether the anthology viola has the same quality as the adagio or not ??


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## jaketanner (Jan 1, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> I've been using these as a default for years now and got so much use out of it out of the box I neglected the manual (I know, I talk the talk and sometimes don't walk the walk...so hate me!). I realized that the "Instinct" patch I love so much is based upon one of my Gods, Jerry Goldsmith (dude we need a Composer's Toolkit for this man SOOO bad @Spitfire Team!)
> 
> There are also patches based upon Thomas (too bad not Alfred) Newman and Newton-Howard.
> 
> ...



Which patch are you referring about the violas? Divisi, Ensemble, solo?


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## kavinsky (Jan 1, 2019)

Motr3b said:


> You guys are really selling me this library ...
> Does anyone know whether the anthology viola has the same quality as the adagio or not ??


Same thing but less content


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## Mike Fox (Jan 1, 2019)

Man, I really need to revisit this library now.


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## quantum7 (Jan 2, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> The strings sound SO sweet!


Indeed!


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## axb312 (Jan 12, 2019)

On sale now for 28 USD...almost like 8Dio is reading these forums...


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 12, 2019)

axb312 said:


> On sale now for 28 USD...almost like 8Dio is reading these forums...



A steal.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 12, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> A steal.


Quick, start a thread about the cellos so 8Dio can flash sale them too. You have that power.


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## CT (Jan 12, 2019)

Despite some frustrations with Adagietto, over the last few days, I've had a renewed appetite for Adagio....


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## jbuhler (Jan 12, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> A steal.


_Oh, @Parsifal666 started a thread on our Adagio violas, we better have a sale! _


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## CT (Jan 12, 2019)

Would owning the violas and Adagietto entitle one to any discount off the whole bundle? Any idea how much?


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## sostenuto (Jan 12, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> _Oh, @Parsifal666 started a thread on our Adagio violas, we better have a sale! _



Yep ! Ha ha.  Downloading now. 

Plz *@ Parsifal666* get us going now for Adagio Cellos for $28 !!


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## Lionel Schmitt (Jan 12, 2019)

I get the feeling 8dio is monitoring Vi-C. There were people who wanted the Epic Dhol as a X-Mas flash sale and it came afterwards...
Now this thread and... some time later they go on sale! :D 
Could be an coincidence of course.


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## jbuhler (Jan 12, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> I get the feeling 8dio is monitoring Vi-C. There were people who wanted the Epic Dhol as a X-Mas flash sale and it came afterwards...
> Now this thread and... some time later they go on sale! :D
> Could be an coincidence of course.


8dio's marketing strategy is to always have some attractive sale. Some of those sales may be planned for whatever reason, but since the library on sale can be pretty much any of them, they can use the bump in attention from a thread here to feed into that strategy. So I doubt it is deeply calculated, but I also doubt it is completely a coincidence.


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## ScarletJerry (Jan 12, 2019)

I'm trying to conserve hard drive space, so I would love to purchase this library and just keep the solo viola on my drive (archive the rest of the library) is that possible?

-Scarlet Jerry


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 12, 2019)

ScarletJerry said:


> I'm trying to conserve hard drive space, so I would love to purchase this library and just keep the solo viola on my drive (archive the rest of the library) is that possible?
> 
> -Scarlet Jerry


Yes. The samples are single files and organised in different subdirectories.
You can just keep the "Solo" folder and remove the others you don't need.
The Solo samples have roughly a size of 2.5GB.


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## ScarletJerry (Jan 12, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Yes. The samples are single files and organised in different subdirectories.
> You can just keep the "Solo" folder and remove the others you don't need.
> The Solo samples have roughly a size of 2.5GB.



Thanks for this comprehensive answer! I was wondering about the sample sizes too.

-Scarlet Jerry


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 12, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Quick, start a thread about the cellos so 8Dio can flash sale them too. You have that power.



Hmm...I have and use Emo Cello all the time (and expect to scoop the Hein soon)...but at under 30 the Adagio Cello would be a no-brainer for me. @Soundiron Team 

If I only had the _*POW-ah!*_


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## artomatic (Jan 12, 2019)

$28. Grabbed it for fun.


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## jaketanner (Jan 12, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Quick, start a thread about the cellos so 8Dio can flash sale them too. You have that power.



I second the cello sale. This will complete my Adagio series. I have Anthology, but it's just not the same as Adagio at all. Or Agitato for that matter.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 12, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> but at under 30 the Adagio Cello would be a no-brainer for me


Okay...so it sounds like you don't actually have Adagio Cellos. But you still have the power to make this flash sale happen.

Anyone else think 8dio Adagio Cellos _might_ kick ass? If only there was some way we all could get it and find out. 

Also, 66 Bases might kick ass, and maybe 66 tubas...


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## jaketanner (Jan 12, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> I second the cello sale. This will complete my Adagio series. I have Anthology, but it's just not the same as Adagio at all. Or Agitato for that matter.



Correction...BASS is needed. Cello is cool...I have that. BASS PLEASE!! LOL


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## robgb (Jan 12, 2019)

I'd buy this, but I suspect that since I have Adagietto it would probably be redundant.


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## jaketanner (Jan 12, 2019)

robgb said:


> I'd buy this, but I suspect that since I have Adagietto it would probably be redundant.



no it wouldn't...completely different. Adagio also has solo and divisi instruments.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 12, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Correction...BASS is needed. Cello is cool...I have that. BASS PLEASE!! LOL



The bass is excellent imo, plenty of useable articulations, and I personally get along fine with the legato (lol). That would be a terrific sale. It's my default for solo bass, but the ensembles can be fine as well.

Keep in mind that I haven't grabbed the Hein Cello, Viola, or DB yet, and I imagine they're just as sensational as his violin. I kind of hesitate recommending the Adagio over the Hein, however if these sales continue then everyone benefits big time from a small price and a still-_*very*_-good library.


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## robgb (Jan 12, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> no it wouldn't...completely different. Adagio also has solo and divisi instruments.


It's my understanding that Adagietto uses the same samples as Adagio, it's simply far more limited in articulations. Divisi is nice, but I use AM for solo instruments.


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## dflood (Jan 12, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> we all could get it and find out.


The adagio basses are also on sale for $55
https://8dio.com/instrument/adagio-basses/


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 12, 2019)

dflood said:


> The adagio basses are also on sale for $55
> https://8dio.com/instrument/adagio-basses/


Looks more like a permanent price than a sale.


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## sostenuto (Jan 12, 2019)

dflood said:


> The adagio basses are also on sale for $55
> https://8dio.com/instrument/adagio-basses/



Hmmmmm …… 2x typical Promo price. Was a bit surprised with @ Cory Pelizzari _ Bass comment. 
Would really want this in the 'toolbox' when needed /desired.


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## dflood (Jan 12, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> Hmmmmm …… 2x typical Promo price. Was a bit surprised with @ Cory Pelizzari _ Bass comment.
> Would really want this in the 'toolbox' when needed /desired.


I agree. I was very impressed with the tone of the solo bass in the promo video and the various articulations.


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## sostenuto (Jan 12, 2019)

Should post this aa a new Thread, but maybe see some guidance here ??
Fortunate to get Anthology on promo. and now Adagio Violas. Also have Symphonic Shadows, Agitato Grandiose Sordino Strings and Violins Legato.

Taking advantage of 'SAMPLE TALK' and puzzling about preferred next addition: Century Strings Bundle (@ next Promo ~~ $360.) versus Spitfire _ Studio Strings Core @ Pro @ 249. or Pro @ $499. 

Not so much 'which is better', but which should be the strongest complement to Anthology, Adagio, Agitato libs now used ???


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## AllanH (Jan 12, 2019)

I would be more interested in the entire Adagio series. 8dio really do know how to sample orchestral strings.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 12, 2019)

It's interesting to see how many people list 8dio's Adagio Series in the Most Disappointing Library Thread. In fact, it seems to be the single most mentioned library on there, although maybe a third of those mentions are defending it.


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## dflood (Jan 12, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> It's interesting to see how many people list 8dio's Adagio Series in the Most Disappointing Library Thread. In fact, it seems to be the single most mentioned library on there, although maybe a third of those mentions are defending it.


Did they pay the full price?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 12, 2019)

dflood said:


> Did they pay the full price?


Most mention getting it on sale, actually.


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## jaketanner (Jan 12, 2019)

robgb said:


> It's my understanding that Adagietto uses the same samples as Adagio, it's simply far more limited in articulations. Divisi is nice, but I use AM for solo instruments.



I have both as well as Agitato, and to me, they all sound slightly different. Anthology also uses the same sample sets, yet it sounds a lot thinner and not as much of a bite...don't like the sound of Anthology compared to Agitato for sure...something is going on under the hood with each of those libraries.


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## whiskers (Jan 12, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> I have both as well as Agitato, and to me, they all sound slightly different. Anthology also uses the same sample sets, yet it sounds a lot thinner and not as much of a bite...don't like the sound of Anthology compared to Agitato for sure...something is going on under the hood with each of those libraries.


so I already have Anthology, would you still advocate looking at these?


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## robgb (Jan 12, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> I have both as well as Agitato, and to me, they all sound slightly different. Anthology also uses the same sample sets, yet it sounds a lot thinner and not as much of a bite...don't like the sound of Anthology compared to Agitato for sure...something is going on under the hood with each of those libraries.


I have some Agitato as well (the sordinos), and while there are sound differences between it and Adagietto's sordino, it's not really that much different. Not enough to justify spending more money (for me, at least).


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## Sid Francis (Jan 12, 2019)

Funny that there are so many adagio viola lovers in one spot. I bought them and never ever used them. Bought Adagietto...never ever used it. Bought Agitato Grandioso...never ever used it. Why the heck did this idiot buy again and again when obviously this was not the kind of samples he likes you might ask?.
Yes guys, the ultimate answer, the holy grail of V.I.Control forum: sale, sale, sale.....cheap!! Get it for less now!! Grab it while you can !! Black friday, only once a year!! ad lib.....

Thank heaven I am mostly out of it. Have 3 hard drives full of things I don´t use. I have stopped it a while ago. And you know what? I love Session Strings 1 and Kirk Hunter Concert strings 2. Idiot...as I said.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 13, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> It's interesting to see how many people list 8dio's Adagio Series in the Most Disappointing Library Thread. In fact, it seems to be the single most mentioned library on there, although maybe a third of those mentions are defending it.



Try to avoid the violins.


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## pderbidge (Jan 13, 2019)

Sid Francis said:


> Funny that there are so many adagio viola lovers in one spot. I bought them and never ever used them. Bought Adagietto...never ever used it. Bought Agitato Grandioso...never ever used it. Why the heck did this idiot buy again and again when obviously this was not the kind of samples he likes you might ask?.
> Yes guys, the ultimate answer, the holy grail of V.I.Control forum: sale, sale, sale.....cheap!! Get it for less now!! Grab it while you can !! Black friday, only once a year!! ad lib.....
> 
> Thank heaven I am mostly out of it. Have 3 hard drives full of things I don´t use. I have stopped it a while ago. And you know what? I love Session Strings 1 and Kirk Hunter Concert strings 2. Idiot...as I said.


Certainly a matter of workflow and tastes. It's no doubt we all have heard demos of the libraries we buy that sway us but then don't seem to find the mojo between us and the library to make it work for us. I've owned the Agitato's and Adagietto for a while before I was able to really get accustomed to their quirks and loveliness. Once I spent a little more time forcing myself to try and work with what I own because I hate the idea of wasting money I've fallen more and more in love with 8Dio's string libraries. They are not as consistent and perfect as some other string libraries but when you find the gems within they beg for you to try and find new uses for them. Lass 2 on the other hand was instant love for me as I liked it's raw sound that reminded me of real recordings, raw, if not a bit harsh (which also means more bite) that needs some decent processing to sound right. If I remember right, you didn't end up caring for LASS either. Nothing wrong with that but if you ever get the time keep giving your Lass and 8Dio strings a chance I think you will eventually find what people love so much about these libraries.

Edit: Come to think of it, I remember being really disappointed in Albion and then feeling suckered into Albion One. Although I still think Albion was bit overpriced for what I've gotten out of it compared to my other orchestral libraries I've found a lot of gems in there too. The shorts are really good, and I really like the Stephensen's Steamband patches quite a bit. I've layered the string ensembles quite a bit with great results and I'm still discovering good stuff in this one.


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## gjelul (Jan 13, 2019)

For $28 it is totally worth it. Downloading now...


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## NYC Composer (Jan 13, 2019)

For me, the thing about the current crazy pricing is this-as much as I’ve reined in my gear lust over the past few years (and I have) spending $28 is worth it if there’s just one patch I love and end up integrating into my workflow. The only drawbacks are download and installation time and the limitations of SSD space.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jan 13, 2019)

Anybody care to share their opinion about the quality of the Solo Viola in this library?

Thanks!


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## Rob (Jan 13, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Anybody care to share their opinion about the quality of the Solo Viola in this library?
> 
> Thanks!


I think it's very emotional, and has a beautiful timbre...


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## robgb (Jan 13, 2019)

Sid Francis said:


> Kirk Hunter Concert strings 2


Kirk's stuff is vastly underrated. I've been playing with (and fixing) the Concert strings that come with KH Diamond Orchestra. I'm not sure what version they are, but with tweaks they sound great.


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## sostenuto (Jan 13, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> Try to avoid the violins.



Aarrgghh ….. My abilities to optimize any Orch libs is stunted, and was cruising along adding Anthology, some Adagio /Agitato, in hopes they would work together nicely. Your post 'hurts', as I will be uncomfortable sorting another Violin to work with 8DIO. 
I do have a broad assortment which may get close …. KH_ Diamond Symphony Orch, Spotlight Solo Strings / NI _ K11U, Symphony Essentials / OT _ ARK1 / SF _ Albions: One, Loegria, Tundra / xyz.

Can one of 8DIO Violins work at an acceptable level ? If not, can you advise a couple alternatives you feel I can use comfortably ??


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## sostenuto (Jan 13, 2019)

robgb said:


> Kirk's stuff is vastly underrated. I've been playing with (and fixing) the Concert strings that come with KH Diamond Orchestra. I'm not sure what version they are, but with tweaks they sound great.



_You posted as I was writing my last one. _
I have enjoyed much of my Diamond Symphony Orch content, as well, as Spotlight Solo and Virtuoso Ens. Definitely too easily swayed by adverse comment, or lack of comment, as other String libs take precedence.

_8DIO, on sale, is a helpful learning tool, as I can add 'affordable' content to audition and compare with existing libraries._

THX ...


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## richardt4520 (Jan 13, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> Can one of 8DIO Violins work at an acceptable level ? If not, can you advise a couple alternatives you feel I can use comfortably ??


I think the 8Dio violins work just fine. There are better options but I personally weigh that with how well they fit together sound wise and the Adagio violins gel nicely with the rest of the Adagio series, better than anything else I have. I think a lot of the issues people are having is from using the room mics, which can jump around in the stereo field. I use the close mics, pan to position, and use an external reverb to put them into a space. So I don't have much of that going on.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 13, 2019)

Sid Francis said:


> I bought them and never ever used them.


You are me from the future. I feel like I'm predestined to keep buying random stuff on sale, then just continuing to use Cinematic Studio Strings for everything.

Hey, does anyone here use the Adagio divisi sections for actual divisi (rather than treating it as a separate section size)?


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## CT (Jan 13, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Hey, does anyone here use the Adagio divisi sections for actual divisi (rather than treating it as a separate section size)?



I would, if I had them... and I may have them soon.

Although it doesn't look like support will get back to me about upgrade paths before the sale expires.


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## novaburst (Jan 13, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> It's interesting to see how many people list 8dio's Adagio Series in the Most Disappointing Library Thread. In fact, it seems to be the single most mentioned library on there, although maybe a third of those mentions are defending it.



IMHO Adagio are a great sounding library and you will not find many other string library's that can match it,

There are some artefacts in the library's but when compared to what you can use its very small.

The Adagio library's force you to think like a string player as on most of the samples you will only a bow stroke or two then the sample ends this is what turns a lot of people away from the library as many are not string players and don't understand how strings work myself included.

Many prefer to press a note on the keyboard and have a continues note that does not end but that is how not to play strings.

The Adagio library's are very useable tone is great but work in favour of those who know how to use strings, also works for those who are whiling to learn. 

As the title of the thread has said about the Viola, I think Adagio generally kicks Ass.


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## whiskers (Jan 13, 2019)

Love the sound but not sure on this as I already have Anthology. Hmm


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 13, 2019)

novaburst said:


> IMHO Adagio are a great sounding library and you will not find many other string library's that can match it,
> 
> There are some artefacts in the library's but when compared to what you can use its very small.
> 
> ...



Remind me of creating a new thread about breath controllers and how I would force everyone to buy it, because I believe people would readjust their sense for brass when they had to push their own air through a mouthpiece of a controller set which can be adjusted to real conditions regarding airflow which I would force them to do so :D


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## CT (Jan 13, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Remind me of creating a new thread about breath controllers and how I would force everyone to buy it,



+1


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## Rob (Jan 13, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Anybody care to share their opinion about the quality of the Solo Viola in this library?
> 
> Thanks!


a little bit with the legato solo viola, close mic plus reverb

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/8dioviola-mp3.17803/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 13, 2019)

Rob said:


> a little bit with the legato solo viola, close mic plus reverb
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/8dioviola-mp3.17803/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Rob, you rock!

A raw user demo is worth a thousand words.


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## whiskers (Jan 13, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Remind me of creating a new thread about breath controllers and how I would force everyone to buy it, because I believe people would readjust their sense for brass when they had to push their own air for a controller set which can be adjusted to real conditions regarding airflow which I would force them to do so :D


You have the tecControl?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 13, 2019)

whiskers said:


> You have the tecControl?



I have the breath and bite controller 2 of them, yes.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jan 13, 2019)

Rob said:


> a little bit with the legato solo viola, close mic plus reverb
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/8dioviola-mp3.17803/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Thank you. Downloading!


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## NYC Composer (Jan 13, 2019)

Rob said:


> a little bit with the legato solo viola, close mic plus reverb
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/8dioviola-mp3.17803/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Rob, I just bought this and I like the tone too, but the legato plays you-you can't just play whatever you like and have it sound good because it feels to me like a lot of the legato transitions are at different levels. I think the lyrical bit you played is what it does well, but still.

Does the jumping around the stereo field not drive you a little nuts? The first two notes of what you played, even!


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 13, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> you can't just play whatever you like and have it sound good because it feels to me like a lot of the legato transitions are at different levels.


Time permitting, could you upload an example of the weakness in the legato?


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## Rob (Jan 13, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Rob, I just bought this and I like the tone too, but the legato plays you-you can't just play whatever you like and have it sound good because it feels to me like a lot of the legato transitions are at different levels. I think the lyrical bit you played is what it does well, but still.
> 
> Does the jumping around the stereo field not drive you a little nuts? The first two notes of what you played, even!


Larry (happy new year btw!) first of all, you just bought for less than 30 dollars a viola library with ensembles, divisi and solo all with a beautiful tone, and you're complaining?  I encourage you to take some time to understand how this instrument has been conceived, and how to take advantage of its strengths... and no, I'm not bothered by the stereo inconsistencies... oh I see that the tone of my reply could seem very serious or irritated, but it's not like that, I'm smiling as I'm writing this my friend...


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 13, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> Aarrgghh ….. My abilities to optimize any Orch libs is stunted, and was cruising along adding Anthology, some Adagio /Agitato, in hopes they would work together nicely. Your post 'hurts', as I will be uncomfortable sorting another Violin to work with 8DIO.
> I do have a broad assortment which may get close …. KH_ Diamond Symphony Orch, Spotlight Solo Strings / NI _ K11U, Symphony Essentials / OT _ ARK1 / SF _ Albions: One, Loegria, Tundra / xyz.
> 
> Can one of 8DIO Violins work at an acceptable level ? If not, can you advise a couple alternatives you feel I can use comfortably ??



The Hein solo violin works great...it, along with Emo Cello and the Adagio Viola and Bass are my solo string defaults.


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## ism (Jan 13, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Anybody care to share their opinion about the quality of the Solo Viola in this library?
> 
> Thanks!




It is 3-4 generations behind the current state of the art. Ok for certain kinds of first chair work, I guess. But an abomination if you're trying to mock of Beethoven quartets. 

In general, I would seriously advise taking the demo video with a grain of salt.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 13, 2019)

ism said:


> But an abomination if you're trying to mock of Beethoven quartets.



Uh, most live performances of Beethoven's quartets (especially the late) are abominations. Those pieces aren't going to be captured properly by _*any*_ library anytime soon. And yeah, I've endured dozens of trys...it ain't happening.

I've studied those quartets my whole life, they probably are his greatest masterworks (at the least the most expressive and forward-thinking...the end of the Classical era itself).

Oh no, I'm raving on LvB again..


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## NYC Composer (Jan 13, 2019)

Rob said:


> Larry (happy new year btw!) first of all, you just bought for less than 30 dollars a viola library with ensembles, divisi and solo all with a beautiful tone, and you're complaining?  I encourage you to take some time to understand how this instrument has been conceived, and how to take advantage of its strengths... and no, I'm not bothered by the stereo inconsistencies... oh I see that the tone of my reply could seem very serious or irritated, but it's not like that, I'm smiling as I'm writing this my friend...


Rob, and a VERY happy New Year to you, my friend!

No, not complaining at all. Having gone through the whole library quickly, there are just a few things I’d use personally (mostly the section legatos and the sustains, which I like very much) you’re certainly right that time spent will improve my understanding and ability to get the best out of it, but personally I’d rather turn to the CSSS solo instruments for their also nice tone and much greater consistently and ease of use. Time will tell, of course.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 13, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Time permitting, could you upload an example of the weakness in the legato?


Sure, i’ll give it a try tomorrow, finishing something up at the moment.

Do you have the library?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 13, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Sure, i’ll give it a try tomorrow, finishing something up at the moment.
> 
> Do you have the library?


Haven't bitten yet. I'm back and forth as to whether it adds anything new to Cinematic Studio Strings line.


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## Mikro93 (Jan 14, 2019)

Is anybody having issues with some samples not triggering (the long sustain after a legato transition, mostly), and the impossibility of switching articulations, either via keyswitches or even clicking on the interface?
Just did a quick googling, no luck. I'm running Reaper and Live 9 in Windows 10, seems to be some inconsistencies, to say the least.


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## jbuhler (Jan 14, 2019)

Mikro93 said:


> Is anybody having issues with some samples not triggering (the long sustain after a legato transition, mostly), and the impossibility of switching articulations, either via keyswitches or even clicking on the interface?
> Just did a quick googling, no luck. I'm running Reaper and Live 9 in Windows 10, seems to be some inconsistencies, to say the least.


I have this same problem with some of the legatos. I am not having any problem with switching articulations.


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## whiskers (Jan 14, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Haven't bitten yet. I'm back and forth as to whether it adds anything new to Cinematic Studio Strings line.


same, but trying to see if it adds anything to Anthology. Anthology just doesn't sound very organic in a lot of places to my ears. IDK what it is.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 14, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Haven't bitten yet. I'm back and forth as to whether it adds anything new to Cinematic Studio Strings line.


Here are two short examples, slower and more lyrical, then a bit faster. The legato isn't as bad as I feared, though you can hear that it struggles to keep up in the second, faster part.
My biggest problems are in the stereo perspective (which keeps bouncing around) and the crossfading (which often sounds to me like a section playing instead of a solo.)

The first section was done freehand, no quantizing. The faster part was quantized. No eq, one instance of Phoenixverb as an insert:

http://www.ljnmusicandsound.com/2019/a-dagio-viola/


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 14, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Here are two short examples, slower and more lyrical, then a bit faster. The legato isn't as bad as I feared, though you can hear that it struggles to keep up in the second, faster part.
> My biggest problems are in the stereo perspective (which keeps bouncing around) and the crossfading (which often sounds to me like a section playing instead of a solo.)
> 
> The first section was done freehand, no quantizing. The faster part was quantized. No eq, one instance of Phoenixverb as an insert:
> ...


Thank you, this sounds well worth $28 to my ears. Nice playing too.

I mainly wanted to know if this would give me sounds I don't otherwise have and to my ear it does. And I wanted to know whether that is outweighed by the handful of bugs and inconsistencies and it seems like for lyrical playing it is not.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 14, 2019)

I agree-you can do some lyrical playing with this instrument if you can deal with the stereo thingie. The tone is a bit edgier than I like, but that's easily eq-able.

The bouncing stereo perspective doesn't bother you?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 14, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> The bouncing stereo perspective doesn't bother you?


It totally does. 8dio should have their heads checked--what were they thinking?

Richardt4520 mentioned that he addresses this by using the close mics, and I'm thinking there might be a way to collapse the spread a bit then place in position (I use EAReverb) and hope for the best.

EDIT: I switched my speakers to mono and listened to it again and think it sounds okay. I don't always have the best ear for spacialization, but it sounds usable to me.


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## Mikro93 (Jan 14, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> I have this same problem with some of the legatos. I am not having any problem with switching articulations.


Did you find a fix?


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## jaketanner (Jan 14, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> The bouncing stereo perspective doesn't bother you?



I have heard this issue with other libraries. Don't remember off the top of my head, but this seems to happen from time to time. I think it's a case of possibly recording on different days, and having the seats be slightly off from a previous take...only thing I can think of why the bouncing around.


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## transverb (Jan 14, 2019)

I'm on the fence. I have 8dio Adagietto so I'm guessing I'm covered from the ensemble perspective and I have CSSS so I'm covered for the solo perspective. Besides the divisi would this bring any value? Even at $28 I don't want to hop on something that is going to collect virtual dust. 

Now the bases on the other hand....


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 14, 2019)

Not to defend 8 dio but stereo bouncing bullshit inconsistencies are present in libraries from other devs also.wont mention names but is with almost every premium company out there...doesnt make it cool though.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 14, 2019)

I guess I'm kind of baffled at how much conjecture there is over a library this price. At 28 bucks you'll find a use for at least some of those samples, folks.

Not meant disparagingly. I guess I'm just an old person whom is still getting used to the fact that some people here spend way more time on deliberating sales and purchases than learning anything about or composing music (not that I have any problem at all with that and neither should anyone else; hobbies are great to have imo). I myself know exactly how fun it is to do the above...so much so that I (_*almost*_) resent the time I have to spend finishing commissions when I could be having fun like you guys lol!

So I'm a total hypocrite, because I already know I'd spend_* way *_more time on here if I didn't have to work


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 14, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> So I'm a total hypocrite, because I already know I'd spend_* way *_more time on here if I didn't have to work




Actually, I must add that if I weren't at times such a condescending, musically snobby prick who's full of hot air, I'd be on here more.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 14, 2019)

Bought it, love it. There's issues here and there, I wouldn't buy it expecting it to be a go-to. For me it'll be a specialized tool for slower expressive writing. Like adagios. 

BTW, there's a _lot_ of portamento in this. I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect there might be some intervals where the only connected note you can get has a portamento. EDIT: The Village legato (the last option) set to xfade seems to be free of portamento.


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## CT (Jan 14, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> I guess I'm kind of baffled at how much conjecture there is over a library this price. At 28 bucks you'll find a use for at least some of those samples, folks.
> 
> Not meant disparagingly. I guess I'm just an old person whom is still getting used to the fact that some people here spend way more time on deliberating sales and purchases than learning anything about or composing music (not that I have any problem at all with that and neither should anyone else; hobbies are great to have imo). I myself know exactly how fun it is to do the above...so much so that I (_*almost*_) resent the time I have to spend finishing commissions when I could be having fun like you guys lol!
> 
> So I'm a total hypocrite, because I already know I'd spend_* way *_more time on here if I didn't have to work



I don't think you're being hypocritical at all, maybe just not imagining every scenario that some of us may be in.

I've had lust for Adagio for years, now. I did almost jump on this without any thought, as a way to finally start my collection. It's just that even $28 is a significant number for me, especially if it ends up being a waste for whatever reason; it's not always easy for me to tell how right something will be for me. I've been burned like everyone else, but I think my budget is definitely on the very low side for the VI-Control population, and even small amounts like this add up, and inevitably keep me from buying something I'm more sure of down the line. This deliberation doesn't come at much cost for me when it comes to focusing on more important things. Actually, it's an important thing itself: money.

Support never got back to me about ugrade paths, anyway, so I've missed my chance, and that lack of communication doesn't exactly endear me... I love the 8Dio sound, but it's never the smoothest ride with them, in any way.


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## jbuhler (Jan 14, 2019)

Mikro93 said:


> Did you find a fix?


Nope. Likely solution will be: don't use the patches. Maybe it will be fixed once I am able to run the installer. Not sure why that would do anything, but I haven't been able to run it, and 8dio support hasn't gotten back to me about the installer not running.


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## CT (Jan 14, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Bought it, love it. There's issues here and there, I wouldn't buy it expecting it to be a go-to. For me it'll be a specialized tool for slower expressive writing. Like adagios.
> 
> BTW, there's a _lot_ of portamento in this. I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect there might be some intervals where the only connected note you can get has a portamento.



That's something I found odd and frustrating about the violas in Agitato Sordino Strings. It stinks that it's apparently in Adagio too.


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## jbuhler (Jan 14, 2019)

transverb said:


> I'm on the fence. I have 8dio Adagietto so I'm guessing I'm covered from the ensemble perspective and I have CSSS so I'm covered for the solo perspective. Besides the divisi would this bring any value? Even at $28 I don't want to hop on something that is going to collect virtual dust.
> 
> Now the bases on the other hand....


The dynamic bows are very nice, and for me are worth $28. The divisi is not really divisi but a half section. (That is, you don't get two half sections but only one.)


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## transverb (Jan 14, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> The dynamic bows are very nice, and for me are worth $28. The divisi is not really divisi but a half section. (That is, you don't get two half sections but only one.)



Thank you, appreciate the feedback.


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## Rob (Jan 14, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Bought it, love it. There's issues here and there, I wouldn't buy it expecting it to be a go-to. For me it'll be a specialized tool for slower expressive writing. Like adagios.
> 
> BTW, there's a _lot_ of portamento in this. I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect there might be some intervals where the only connected note you can get has a portamento.


Have you tried high velocities? I think portamento engages at low vel.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 14, 2019)

Rob said:


> Have you tried high velocities? I think portamento engages at low vel.


Using the ensembles, I haven't noticed the velocity having an effect on the legato type. I've only played with it for 30 minutes and there's a ton of things to tweak so it's entirely possible that there are important functions that I'm missing. With that huge caveat in mind, I notice the portamentos kicking in mostly at intervals of a fourth or over.


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## kitekrazy (Jan 14, 2019)

miket said:


> I don't think you're being hypocritical at all, maybe just not imagining every scenario that some of us may be in.
> 
> I've had lust for Adagio for years, now. I did almost jump on this without any thought, as a way to finally start my collection. *It's just that even $28 is a significant number for me, especially if it ends up being a waste for whatever reason*; it's not always easy for me to tell how right something will be for me. I've been burned like everyone else, *but I think my budget is definitely on the very low side for the VI-Control population, and even small amounts like this add up, and inevitably keep me from buying something I'm more sure of down the line. This deliberation doesn't come at much cost for me when it comes to focusing on more important things. Actually, it's an important thing itself: money.*
> 
> Support never got back to me about ugrade paths, anyway, so I've missed my chance, and that lack of communication doesn't exactly endear me... I love the 8Dio sound, but it's never the smoothest ride with them, in any way.



Welcome to the club. I rarely do orchestra anyway. I've gained a collection of budge VSL which I should take time to learn. As some say on here get a library and learn it to the fullest capacity. Often HWO Gold can be had for under $250. I should save for that and be done.


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## jbuhler (Jan 14, 2019)

transverb said:


> Thank you, appreciate the feedback.


I should mention I don't have Adagietto, so I don't know what content overlaps. But for $28, I found the dynamic bows both for ensemble and divisi half section to be worth to price. Hopefully, I'll find more useful stuff as I work through the library and also figure out why so many of the legato patches seem broken...


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## Quanah (Jan 14, 2019)

@jbuhler & @Mikro93 ... regarding the legato sustains being cut off. I'm not sure if this is what you are both experiencing...and forgive me if you already know this, but every legato style has the C0 Natural keyswitch. This patch by design was cut short. It definitely got me when I first bought an Adagio lib. Maybe this isn't the issue here, but I'll still link a helpful vid I found on YT, explaining it.


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## ReelToLogic (Jan 14, 2019)

Quanah said:


> @jbuhler & @Mikro93 ... regarding the legato sustains being cut off. I'm not sure if this is what you are both experiencing...and forgive me if you already know this, but every legato style has the C0 Natural keyswitch. This patch by design was cut short. It definitely got me when I first bought an Adagio lib. Maybe this isn't the issue here, but I'll still link a helpful vid I found on YT, explaining it.



Thanks for the video link. I noticed at 25:30 into the video he linked his Mod-Wheel to both Dynamics and Expression as I do, but he has an OFFSET so that they are not at the same value (the Expression knob has a higher value than the Dynamics knob until it reaches its limit). Does anyone know how that is done?


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## ism (Jan 14, 2019)

My recollection is that Adagio doesn’t have different legatos on the individual legato patches in the same way that adagietto and anthology do. 

There is a Kontakt multi that does something like this (though it crashed when I tried to install it -8dio offered a workaround, but it was just more trouble that it was worth).


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## jbuhler (Jan 14, 2019)

Quanah said:


> @jbuhler & @Mikro93 ... regarding the legato sustains being cut off. I'm not sure if this is what you are both experiencing...and forgive me if you already know this, but every legato style has the C0 Natural keyswitch. This patch by design was cut short. It definitely got me when I first bought an Adagio lib. Maybe this isn't the issue here, but I'll still link a helpful vid I found on YT, explaining it.



Thanks! I had wondered if it was by design as it seemed about a bow stroke long, sustain-transition-sustsin, but it still cut off without release tail. On the other hand it happens on more than just that patch. It’s also inconsistent on some patches applying to some notes and not others.


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## jbuhler (Jan 14, 2019)

ism said:


> My recollection is that Adagio doesn’t have different legatos on the individual legato patches in the same way that adagietto and anthology do.
> 
> There is a Kontakt multi that does something like this (though it crashed when I tried to install it -8dio offered a workaround, but it was just more trouble that it was worth).


Yes, the installer isn’t working for me either. I find this library very strange. It’s not bad despite inconsistencies, but it’s not user friendly. I do like the dynamic bows which mix nicely with and give nice detail to OACE waves.


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## IdealSequenceG (Jan 14, 2019)

Adagio Solo Viola Test


[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/8dio-solo-viola-test-mp3.17862/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/8dio-solo-viola-test-mp3.17862/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## MisteR (Jan 14, 2019)

ism said:


> My recollection is that Adagio doesn’t have different legatos on the individual legato patches in the same way that adagietto and anthology do.
> 
> There is a Kontakt multi that does something like this (though it crashed when I tried to install it -8dio offered a workaround, but it was just more trouble that it was worth).


What was the workaround?


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## tmm (Jan 14, 2019)

Yep, my fav of the Adagio series... actually, possibly of any string library. The tone of the Adagio Violas is just heart wrenching. They have their limitations, but for the things I use them for, nothing else will do.


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## ism (Jan 14, 2019)

MisteR said:


> What was the workaround?



Can’t recall exactly .. I think they sent some kind off executable to run outside of Kontakt ... whatever it was, it more complex that I was willing deal with at the time without really knowing exactly what was going on technically. 

Were I truely desperate for a fix, it would easy enough to write a logic file switch between midi channels without getting into system level messing about.


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## Mikro93 (Jan 15, 2019)

Quanah said:


> @jbuhler & @Mikro93 ... regarding the legato sustains being cut off. I'm not sure if this is what you are both experiencing...and forgive me if you already know this, but every legato style has the C0 Natural keyswitch. This patch by design was cut short. It definitely got me when I first bought an Adagio lib. Maybe this isn't the issue here, but I'll still link a helpful vid I found on YT, explaining it.



Thanks for the video 

I don't think it's exactly the same thing as the issue I have, I think I can hear an artificial fading out typical of a legato transition, without a proper release tail. However, that might be a way to narrow down the issue to just the keyswitches not working, and every patch being stuck on the natural patch.

Have a look here:


I sent an e-mail to 8Dio's support. We'll see


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 15, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Using the ensembles, I haven't noticed the velocity having an effect on the legato type. I've only played with it for 30 minutes and there's a ton of things to tweak so it's entirely possible that there are important functions that I'm missing. With that huge caveat in mind, I notice the portamentos kicking in mostly at intervals of a fourth or over.


The Village Legato (the last option) set to xfade seems to be free of portamento, FYI.


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## ism (Jan 15, 2019)

Mikro93 said:


> Thanks for the video
> 
> I don't think it's exactly the same thing as the issue I have, I think I can hear an artificial fading out typical of a legato transition, without a proper release tail. However, that might be a way to narrow down the issue to just the keyswitches not working, and every patch being stuck on the natural patch.
> 
> ...




My understanding is that Anthology is basically an abandoning of any further fixes to Adagio. Party because they announced the end of life of Adagio at the same time. 

But rumours of it's death having turned out to be exaggerated, it would be great if this new surge of interest in Adagio might change that. Because, speaking as someone who bought it as a fist library - it's a terrible, terrible first library. 

But now that I have other, more reliable, libraries that are much more fun and much less painful to work with in general, I'm starting appreciating Adagio again, but now as more of fine detail brush. Niche, and not necessarily very well behaved outside of a its particular expressive niche (like a lot of 8dio, notably the claire winds), but immensely lovely so log as you're focused specifically on the kind of fine expressive lines it can do.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jan 15, 2019)

Still waiting for a fix (hopefully) on the install perils on a Mac running OSX Sierra or higher..... 
no gui and some notes are missing.

Downloaded again but with same result
Installer seems from pre OSX date even....


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## fretti (Jan 15, 2019)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> Still waiting for a fix (hopefully) on the install perils on a Mac running OSX Sierra or higher.....
> no gui and some notes are missing.
> 
> Downloaded again but with same result
> Installer seems from pre OSX date even....


There are two versions of Mac installers from 8Dio:
1) OS 10.10 and later (which you should use)
And 2) Legacy for older OS versions (doesn‘t run on High Sierra and later)

Maybe that helps?


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## jbuhler (Jan 15, 2019)

fretti said:


> There are two versions of Mac installers from 8Dio:
> 1) OS 10.10 and later (which you should use)
> And 2) Legacy for older OS versions (doesn‘t run on High Sierra and later)
> 
> Maybe that helps?


Well, the version of Adagio Violas they sent out only had one Mac installer and it doesn't work. I've had a ticket in with 8dio support since Saturday and have not yet received a response except the automated one stating they received my request.


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## fretti (Jan 15, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Well, the version of Adagio Violas they sent out only had one Mac installer and it doesn't work. I've had a ticket in with 8dio support since Saturday and have not yet received a response except the automated one stating they received my request.


That‘s odd...bought it yesterday evening and had (as always for me when buying stuff from 8Dio) 3 links for downloaders in the mail I got (one for PC and two for MAC)... 
Does it work with a direct download?


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## jbuhler (Jan 15, 2019)

fretti said:


> That‘s odd...bought it yesterday evening and had (as always for me when buying stuff from 8Dio) 3 links for downloaders in the mail I got (one for PC and two for MAC)...
> Does it work with a direct download?


The download worked fine. The problem is running the multi installer that comes packaged with it. The Mac version doesn't work on my system. It crashes immediately on launch.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jan 15, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> The download worked fine. The problem is running the multi installer that comes packaged with it. The Mac version doesn't work on my system. It crashes immediately on launch.


Similar in my case, it does extract but hangs somewhere.... and manual unrar also ends up somewhere with stuff missing, mostly gui, multi...

Also a ticket out....

Although 8dio has some nice products on sale, these issues are oddly uncared for.
We musn’t be the first to install on newer OSX?


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## Ihnoc (Jan 15, 2019)

I'm glad I took a punt on the Adagio Violas at $28 after reading this thread. As difficult as the Cinematic Studio Strings legato is, I would probably have thrown Adagio out the window had I picked it up for primary use. My quick tour with the Adagio Violas does make me feel it is great for new shades and colours though (without getting into esoteric articulations).

The Colin's Favourite legato layers well with CSS's legato and after collapsing the field and a bit of EQ to pull some of the resonances from Adagio, they sound like one section, though I wouldn't use them this way in reality. Good fun was had loading the solo, divisi, ensemble and CSS violas together.

I barely noticed the stereo issues in legato on the ensemble patches but it is certainly present on the solo viola. The divisi and solo instruments are lovely in tone but the lack of consistent articulations, especially the absence of the sordino shorts.

I've yet to get my head around some of the different legato styles; the Colin's Favourite, Sordino and Sweet Slur work to my ears but I struggle to define a difference between Instinct, Perdition and Village.

The dynamic bowing patches, while wonderful in sound, probably won't fit my workflow so well. I've yet to understand exactly what the Loure patches and articulations even _do_. The minor and major tremolos are certain to enter my template. The Ambiences are certainly noises, and like every sound design patch, will gather dust since I don't write music that way.

Somewhat of a ramble, but my appetite is whetted for the rest of Adagio, especially Celli. The try pack of Agitato Grandiose Legato doesn't thrill me but I feel like it probably isn't the best sampling of that library. If there are further flash sales at that much of a discount, I'm in.

Are there any patches in the Violas (or the rest of Adagio and Agitato) that people really love, or shine brighter than the rest? Also, how does the 2nd Violins switch work?


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 15, 2019)

As far as I know these installers only copy some graphic files into the Native Instruments Kontakt directory.
In the Adagio Cellos 8Dio has already included the files for "manual installation" with a small installation instruction.
They should be doing this for Violins, Violas and Basses too. Thus no installers would be necessary at all.
It would be so easy to just publish the necessary files on their webpage for free download, because these files do not have any useful content without having the library itself.


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## ScarletJerry (Jan 15, 2019)

I was able to reduce the Violas to an "essentials" collection that's 7.5 GB. Like @lhnoc , I could not hear a real difference among the legatos, so I deleted all of them except for "Collin's favorite." I also got rid of the Sordinos because I have the Agitado Sordinos. Of the remaining files, I am mainly interested in the solo instrument, the dynamic bowing, and Collin's Fav legato.

-Scarlet Jerry


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 15, 2019)

Lest anyone forget, give the Instinct patches a try in different contexts. The reason I originally found them irresistible is because the manual mentioned a Jerry Goldsmith vibe. I've found several quite useful things there, though perhaps not in the vein intended.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 15, 2019)

Ihnoc said:


> Are there any patches in the Violas (or the rest of Adagio and Agitato) that people really love, or shine brighter than the rest?


So far, I'm finding Village Legato to be the best all-arounder. A lot of them just have too much portamento for me.

Perdition is con sordino. Loure just means it has multiple bowings, I think. For the Dynamic Bowings, it's helpful to use the sustain pedal and not hold notes on the keyboard--this will allow the patch to play out completely on its own. If you load up TM Dynamic Bowing patches, you can use the pitch wheel to speed up or slow down the patch. I get some crackling with TM.


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## jbuhler (Jan 15, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> So far, I'm finding Village Legato to be the best all-arounder. A lot of them just have too much portamento for me.
> 
> Perdition is con sordino. Loure just means it has multiple bowings, I think. For the Dynamic Bowings, it's helpful to use the sustain pedal and not hold notes on the keyboard--this will allow the patch to play out completely on its own. If you load up TM Dynamic Bowing patches, you can use the pitch wheel to speed up or slow down the patch. I get some crackling with TM.


I agree with you about the portamento. Instinct is ok too. Just played around with the TM Dynamic Bowing patch a bit. I didn't get any crackling.


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## IdealSequenceG (Jan 15, 2019)

Solo does not have a fast legato sample, so if the phrase gets faster than this, the sound will be destroyed.

and there are some samples that are not tuned, so some correction is needed.



[AUDIOPLUS=https://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/8dio-solo-viola-test-2-mp3.17895/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 15, 2019)

IdealSequenceG said:


> Solo does not have a fast legato sample, so if the phrase gets faster than this, the sound will be destroyed.
> 
> and there are some samples that are not tuned, so some correction is needed.
> 
> ...



Have you tried using the natural setting for faster parts?

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/vla-solo-01-mp3.17898/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/vla-solo-01-mp3.17898/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## jaketanner (Jan 16, 2019)

I got the violas to add to my Cello and Violins...haven't played around with it much yet, but I did call up the first patch for the solo viola, as a replacement for MIDI information that I did for a solo cello part, using the Tina Guo Legato patch. The violas played near perfect without need to really go in and edit the MIDI data from the cello part. So this interchangeability is great. Most other libraries I would need to go in and modify the MIDI data to meet the response of the new library.

However...what really irks me, is that I rushed to buy this on Sunday when it would have been easier for me to get it on Tuesday, because I was traveling and computer access was minimal...but it's very clear that they said the price would go back to $88 on the 15th(still on their site)...meaning that the 14th(to my understanding), was the last day of the sale. Well this morning, the violas are STILL at $28. I don't mind they extended the sale based off the momentum of this thread (seems to be the case), but let people know so they can plan things accordingly.


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## IdealSequenceG (Jan 16, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Have you tried using the natural setting for faster parts?
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/vla-solo-01-mp3.17898/][/AUDIOPLUS]
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/vla-solo-01-mp3.17898/][/AUDIOPLUS]



good. But if it were in Adagio's solo viola, as in the Agitato ensemble fast legato sample, the note definition of the fast phrase would have been more alive.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 16, 2019)

IdealSequenceG said:


> good. But if it were in Adagio's solo viola, as in the Agitato ensemble fast legato sample, the note definition of the fast phrase would have been more alive.


I'm just letting people know that the solo violin has a fast legato sample and that playing fast doesn't exactly "destroy" the sound.


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## musophrenic (Jan 16, 2019)

ReelToLogic said:


> Thanks for the video link. I noticed at 25:30 into the video he linked his Mod-Wheel to both Dynamics and Expression as I do, but he has an OFFSET so that they are not at the same value (the Expression knob has a higher value than the Dynamics knob until it reaches its limit). Does anyone know how that is done?



Hey @ReelToLogic! The method I used in that video (and in my general workflow) is:

- Go into the Automation tab on the top left side of Kontakt.
- Underneath it you'll click on MIDI Automation. There, you can see what each CC is controlling. 
- Underneath the panel below, you'll find a small box that says "From % 0.0" & "To % 100.0". You can define your offsets there. 

I think what I did was I changed the Expression under CC1 to "From % 10.0 To % 100.0". You can also invert them if you ever needed that for any CC (for instance, having the same CC raise the volume of one mic position while simultaneously lowering the other). 

Hope that helps and makes sense!


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## IdealSequenceG (Jan 16, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I'm just letting people know that the solo violin has a fast legato sample and that playing fast doesn't exactly "destroy" the sound.



um. mistake in choosing a term. 

I think it is a hidden treasure in the slow tempo that matches the name of the library.


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## jbuhler (Jan 16, 2019)

So 8dio support finally got back to me. Evidently the multi installer is no longer needed. No guidance on how I'm supposed to make the multi usable though. Here's what I get when I open a multi:






So I now have submitted a query about how to get the multi to work. But if anyone here knows how to get the multi to work—what files I need to move where—please let me know!


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## Mikro93 (Jan 16, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> So 8dio support finally got back to me. Evidently the multi installer is no longer needed. No guidance on how I'm supposed to make the multi usable though. Here's what I get when I open a multi:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the same issue, with Windows 10. Didn't mention it when I submitted my query. 
Please let us know


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## Thomas Kallweit (Jan 16, 2019)

And another one here.
The multis do look the same (so without gui elements). I used the installer for the graphics though and all that stuff has been exported into C:\Users\xxxx\Documents\Native Instruments\. Win 7.
But all other instruments look as they should.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 16, 2019)

I'm a mac-user, have the same issue with loading multis.


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## freecham (Jan 16, 2019)

Thomas Kallweit said:


> And another one here.
> The multis do look the same (so without gui elements). I used the installer for the graphics though and all that stuff has been exported into C:\Users\xxxx\Documents\Native Instruments\. Win 7.
> But all other instruments look as they should.



Under Windows, you have to copy the pictures folder of the install in this folder :
C:\Users\xxx\Documents\Native Instruments\Kontakt\pictures\8DIO_Adagio_Violas_v1


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## Thomas Kallweit (Jan 16, 2019)

Yep,
everything correct - this is the directory they are in here (just missed the end-directory to paiste with all else)


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 16, 2019)

On Windows 10 the installer has put the files here by default:
C:\Users\YourUsernameHere\*My Documents*\Native Instruments\Kontakt 5\pictures

Move them here:
C:\Users\YourUsernameHere\*Documents*\Native Instruments\Kontakt 5\pictures

It works fine.


(edit): another copy of the files goes to
C:\Users\YourUsernameHere\*My Documents*\Native Instruments\Kontakt 4\pictures
which must be moved to
C:\Users\YourUsernameHere\*Documents*\Native Instruments\Kontakt 4\pictures
in case you use Kontakt 4.


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## sostenuto (Jan 16, 2019)

Using Win10 Pro and Download has: Adagio_Violas_v1.part1 to 19.rar _ 
_BUT _ also: *v1_348296.rar* (3,911 KB) …… What is this ?
_
Installer is set to download to a separate 2TB HDD which is used just for Downloads. I extract them there as well. and then move final Folder to SDD or HDD as desired.

Nothing inherently goes to Users\my name\Documents\Native Instruments\Kontakt5\pictures.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 16, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> _BUT _ also: *v1_348296.rar* (3,911 KB) …… What is this ?_



The second archive contains the instrument files, whereas the part1-19 contain the samples.
You need to unpack both.
Inside the rar archive will be an executable installer that needs to be run and will put some files into the mentioned folders.

The graphic files of this installer are only used in the "multi" patches. All other patches work without those.


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## sostenuto (Jan 16, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> The second archive contains the instrument files, whereas the part1-19 contain the samples.
> You need to unpack both.
> Inside the rar archive will be an executable installer that needs to be run and will put some files into the mentioned folders.
> 
> The graphic files of this installer are only used in the "multi" patches. All other patches work without those.



THX ! I did 'unrar' the Inst files folder (348296) … not knowing if it would be done routinely after #19.

(edit) (4) Multis. Graphics issues as posted earlier. Not sure where to look after new download and install.


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## Shagal (Jan 16, 2019)

The Agitato Sordino Strings are on sale for $88,- Are those the same as discussed here?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 16, 2019)

Shagal said:


> The Agitato Sordino Strings are on sale for $88,- Are those the same as discussed here?


We're discussing Adagio Violas, a different product. Apparently the $28 sale is over.


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## Shagal (Jan 16, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> We're discussing Adagio Violas, a different product. Apparently the $28 sale is over.


Okay thanks, I'm not familiar with the 8dio stuff. Getting really confusing with so many libs...


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## jbuhler (Jan 16, 2019)

poetd said:


> Isn't that only the case if you use their download/installer app?
> Did you use that or download the files manually?


I used their downloader. So are you saying I should download manually?


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 16, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> (edit) What few 'simple' checks to confirm everything is present ? (Multis)


Ok that seems good.
Only the patches inside the folders called "Multi" (for example in the Ensemble/Multi) are affected by the graphics files. Do you see the GUI when opening one of those?


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## sostenuto (Jan 16, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> I used their downloader. So are you saying I should download manually?



Hmmmm ….. on Win10 Pro here and graphics are as you posted #156, after new download, install, Batch re-save in K5.8.1.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 16, 2019)

Shagal said:


> Okay thanks, I'm not familiar with the 8dio stuff. Getting really confusing with so many libs...


This'll help:

I also recommend using the forum's search function.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 16, 2019)

@sostenuto:
I can guide you through.
Look in the files you have unrared. There should be an exe installer somewhere.
For me it is called:
/Installers/Adagio_Violas_v1_Windows_Installer.exe


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## jbuhler (Jan 16, 2019)

poetd said:


> No, sorry. You said that support told you you didn't have to run the installer, so I assumed you downloaded it manually (which I did and had to run the installer).
> 
> Apologies for any confusion. Carry on without me.


Yes, they have a download app, which I installed and used to download the program. But then there is an installer for the multi, which crashes on launch, but that support said I don’t need. Support hasn’t yet told me how to assemble the multi properly.


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## MisteR (Jan 16, 2019)

Support told me the multis were a bandaid for a problem with an older version of Kontakt...so they’re not needed now.


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## MisteR (Jan 16, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, they have a download app, which I installed and used to download the program. But then there is an installer for the multi, which crashes on launch, but that support said I don’t need. Support hasn’t yet told me how to assemble the multi properly.


 Have you tried just reassembling their multis from scratch?


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 16, 2019)

This is what the multis are doing in this lib:
The multis load multiple of the the nki patches (legato patches) and velocity keyswitch between them.
If you are not missing this just use the normal nki patches. You are not missing any samples just that automatic keyswitching.

If anyone knows how to load 2 or 3 patches in one instance of kontakt and keyswitch by velocity between these we could easily build these multis ourselves.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 16, 2019)

MisteR said:


> Support told me the multis were a bandaid for a problem with an older version of Kontakt...so they’re not needed now.


EDIT: Manuel beat me to this by a few seconds.

The multis allow you to use velocity to switch between different types of legato. You should ask them exactly how you'd do it without the multi. 

Everyone who has an open ticket with this issue should ask them this and maybe they'll actually fix it. The only bandaid here is that they're trying to get around fixing it.


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## jbuhler (Jan 16, 2019)

Support wrote back and basically said that they are no longer supporting the multis as in the current version of Kontakt they are simply several patches loaded together. They suggested simply making my own multis and saving them in the usual manner.

Still why they haven’t updated the files and/or documentation to reflect this is beyond me.


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## jbuhler (Jan 16, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> EDIT: Manuel beat me to this by a few seconds.
> 
> The multis allow you to use velocity to switch between different types of legato. You should ask them exactly how you'd do it without the multi. Everyone who has an open ticket with this issue should ask them this and maybe they'll actually fix it.


Nothing from support about the multis actually containing velocity switches, which as I understand it you’d have to build with a multiscript. So either support doesn’t know this or they are dissembling, neither of which is exactly reassuring.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 16, 2019)

*Complete "Adagio Violas" installation guide for Windows 10 users*
(probably also works for other Windows versions):

1)
Download Adagio Violas (either manual or with downloader tool)
In case of manual download unrar the part1-19 archives.
Also unrar the second archive with the longer number in its name.

2)
Run the "/Installers/Adagio_Violas_v1_Windows_Installer.exe" file which is inside
your unrared files. Or whereever you have installed the library.

3)
Copy all files from:
C:\Users\YourUsernameHere\*My Documents*\Native Instruments\Kontakt 5\pictures
to
C:\Users\YourUsernameHere\*Documents*\Native Instruments\Kontakt 5\pictures

(edit): You might have to adjust the paths to "Kontakt 4" or maybe even "Kontakt 6" if you are using these versions.


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## sostenuto (Jan 16, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> @sostenuto:
> I can guide you through.
> Look in the files you have unrared. There should be an exe installer somewhere.
> For me it is called:
> /Installers/Adagio_Violas_v1_Windows_Installer.exe



Duuuuhhhh ! Done; looks well. Many thanks … no clue why not looking in Installer Folder. 

Issue now is: with any of (4) Multis selected, only top audio /volume graphic displays anything playing. Would I not expect one or more of other Multi selections to show output as well?


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 16, 2019)

For this to happen you need to activate the "auto" button on the GUI 
or use the knob which xfades between the different loaded patches.
Then play with different velocity (many of the slur patches only trigger on highest velocity).
Then you have reached your goal!


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 16, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> So either support doesn’t know this or they are dissembling, neither of which is exactly reassuring.


They know, they just continue to tell people this anyway. I already went through it with them.

If anyone figures out the fix for a Mac, please share.


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## jbuhler (Jan 16, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> They know, they just continue to tell people this anyway. I already went through it with them.


Did you get instructions on how to set up the multi when you pressed them?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 16, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Did you get instructions on how to set up the multi when you pressed them?


They said to write support, so I opened a ticket.


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## sostenuto (Jan 16, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> For this to happen you need to activate the "auto" button on the GUI
> or use the knob which xfades between the different loaded patches.
> Then play with different velocity (many of the slur patches only trigger on highest velocity).
> Then you have reached your goal!



Aha! I have reached my goal ! (the '_getting started for dummies_' goal) 
I truly appreciate your capable guidance. Surely some salient 8DIO tips to learn. 

Thanks and regards.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 16, 2019)

Question to 8Dio:
Why the hell am I supporting your products here? 

Answer to myself:
Probably because I like the sound of that instrument


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## jbuhler (Jan 16, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> They said to write support, so I opened a ticket.


Wrote back to support asking if they won’t pretty please give me the multi so I can velocity switch between legato and portamento. 

I may work out a multuscript but it’s irritating that 8dio would deprecate a product like this and then not even bother to change the manual and downloaded files. 

Sigh.


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## IdealSequenceG (Jan 18, 2019)

Divisi Violas Test

The tone is really good



[AUDIOPLUS=https://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/divisi-viola-test-mp3.17925/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/divisi-viola-test-mp3.17925/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 18, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Wrote back to support asking if they won’t pretty please give me the multi so I can velocity switch between legato and portamento.
> 
> I may work out a multuscript but it’s irritating that 8dio would deprecate a product like this and then not even bother to change the manual and downloaded files.
> 
> Sigh.



That's really bizarre, as I've had no difficulties with the Adagio products. I so hope things work out for you, my friend.

I was sketching out some Kammermusik this morning and was pretty much delighted with the patches for solo, not as much on the ensembles. 

Despite some of the criticisms here, it says a lot that the Adagio Viola solo patches have kept me away from the Hein for so long (the Hein solo instruments are uniformly pretty damn killer imo). If I had the problems mentioned by others, I would have simply substituted the Hein when released.

Side note: of course, my engagement with the rest of the Hein solo strings libraries is inevitable  yes I still GAS...I'm honest with myself enough to know that once I buy the Viola from CH I'll probably use the Adagio sparingly. It's just that I'm so used to the Adagio now...


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## jaketanner (Jan 18, 2019)

I have been back and forth with 8Dio ever since I got into Adagio about the issues with the GUI and Kontakt 5. It seems that Adagio was formatted for Kontakt4, and never upgraded to play nice with Kontakt 5. Thus having the need to create Anthology...which is a step backwards if you ask me, in terms of sound...not sure what they did to the sample pool, but I much prefer the sound of Adagio and Agitato far better than Anthology. 

Getting back to the issues: I often get notes that just cut out, and the playability seems a little less agile than in the walkthrough videos that got me to get Adaio. Support basically said (after weeks of pinning them down for an answer): Adagio was supposed to be discontinued completely...they kept it on knowing the issues, because people still appreciated the sound. So I ask...then why the hell doesn't @8Dio just rework the GUI to work flawlessly with Kontakt 5 and up? I even asked them to please send me the old installer with the old GUI that's in the video, but they don't have them apparently. SO I am stuck with some issues.

I would love to see 8Dio got one step further and just get back in the studio, record the same string players, same sound (please), and use modern techniques to bring this library current. I love the thick, lush, raw sound of the Agitato/Adagio series...fits my style perfectly. But...wishful thinking.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jan 18, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Wrote back to support asking if they won’t pretty please give me the multi so I can velocity switch between legato and portamento.
> 
> I may work out a multuscript but it’s irritating that 8dio would deprecate a product like this and then not even bother to change the manual and downloaded files.
> 
> Sigh.


if you are willing to share this ( I am on a Mac too) that would be welcomed.

I bought this sale item mostly for the dynamic bowings which do offer something that no other dev has. (OA has the waves but you can't change chords during the hairpin, and with this one you can.)


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## jbuhler (Jan 18, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> That's really bizarre, as I've had no difficulties with the Adagio products. I so hope things work out for you, my friend.


In the grand scheme of things it’s not a big deal, since I’m well covered for string libraries, I picked the library up cheap, and for that price the dynamic bows were worth the price to me. It is, however, a bit frustrating because I can hear a good sound in the legato patches if I could only get at it in a non-cumbersome manner. It was also a way of testing out an 8dio product at minimal cost and my experience on this has made it unlikely I’ll ever buy anything expensive from them. 

I tried the Instinct legato on a track last night and where it worked it worked very well indeed. But it only worked about 50% of the time, and the other 50% was very bumpy and would have taken a lot of programming to get right (as well as more balancing and matching to the other libraries), so I ended up backing it out. It wasn’t a fair test though because it was dropped in on a passage with midi optimized for another library (which was also struggling with it). In any event, we’ll see.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 18, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> In the grand scheme of things it’s not a big deal, since I’m well covered for string libraries, I picked the library up cheap, and for that price the dynamic bows were worth the price to me. It is, however, a bit frustrating because I can hear a good sound in the legato patches if I could only get at it in a non-cumbersome manner. It was also a way of testing out an 8dio product at minimal cost and my experience on this has made it unlikely I’ll ever buy anything expensive from them.
> 
> I tried the Instinct legato on a track last night and where it worked it worked very well indeed. But it only worked about 50% of the time, and the other 50% was very bumpy and would have taken a lot of programming to get right (as well as more balancing and matching to the other libraries), so I ended up backing it out. It wasn’t a fair test though because it was dropped in on a passage with midi optimized for another library (which was also struggling with it). In any event, we’ll see.



Sounds to me like customer support will help you iron it out.

I think you'll like it (well, REALLY like it for the price) once the bumps are smoothed out.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jan 18, 2019)

Following the instructions from @Manuel Stumpf I was able to get the interface. While I have no issue with switching between the four multis, I can't figure out how to delete the interface. I can delete the two programs, but not the UI. I'm just muting it for the moment, but perhaps somebody can tell me the right way to do it.


Secondly, there are some Factory presets that come with the multis that allow you to harmonize and transform what you play in countless ways. 






There's also a decent set of utilities, including a MIDI filter and monitor. But I can't get them to work with the multis. When I load one of the presets, I can't get the multi to make a sound. 

However, when I delete the programs in the multi and load in a regular patch, they work great. In fact, they work with _any_ virtual instrument you load under them, even if you load a lot of them.


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## jbuhler (Jan 18, 2019)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> if you are willing to share this ( I am on a Mac too) that would be welcomed.
> 
> I bought this sale item mostly for the dynamic bowings which do offer something that no other dev has. (OA has the waves but you can't change chords during the hairpin, and with this one you can.)


I haven’t heard back from 8dio support, and truthfully I don’t really expect to. Setting up a keyswitch between the different patches isn’t hard using the free KS Router multiscript from Orange Tree (https://www.orangetreesamples.com/blog/free-keyswitch-router-multiscript) if that would be enough . But I haven’t worked enough with multiscripts (or scripts for that matter) to know offhand how to make a switch based on velocities. I can’t imagine it’s too difficult since the decision tree is trivial (if velocity > 20 play channel 1; else play channel 2, etc.). You would also need to pass the regular keyswitches to all channels loaded with legato in the multi so the articulations remained in sync. And if I was doing it. I’d look to load the shorts as well and have them on separate keyswitches. As I start thinking about it in this way I now wonder about building an articulation set in Logic, though since I use Studio One as well I’d prefer something that is cross platform.

I’m also wondering if buying an articulation management system might be a better solution since I’ve been thinking about doing that anyway. Most of those however are DAW specific. Something like Mind Control from Orange Tree (https://www.orangetreesamples.com/products/mind-control) might answer.


----------



## Mikro93 (Jan 18, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> the Adagio Viola solo patches have kept me away from the Hein for so long (the Hein solo instruments are uniformly pretty damn killer imo).



How incredibly frustrating it is to read this when working on a project that JUST needs a viola solo, and I have no other good alternative. And Adagio Violas won't work properly on my computer, as stated earlier.

Performance Samples Solo Violin it will be, then. Thank you for your attention.


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## jbuhler (Jan 18, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> Sounds to me like customer support will help you iron it out.
> 
> I think you'll like it (well, REALLY like it for the price) once the bumps are smoothed out.


Hopefully, but my engagement with support so far has been along the lines of "we are not supporting the multis any longer so you have to deal with it by building your own, and we won't give you any help in doing that." You are right about the sound but I fear my other core libraries (SF Chamber Strings and Symphonic Strings and Berlin Strings main) are sufficient that I won't have the motivation to battle the library to get at what it has to offer. As I've said, though, I love the dynamic bows, and the purchase was worth it to me for that. I'll probably get the cellos if they are offered at a similar price for the dynamic bows as well.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 18, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Hopefully, but my engagement with support so far has been along the lines of "we are not supporting the multis any longer so you have to deal with it by building your own, and we won't give you any help in doing that." You are right about the sound but I fear my other core libraries (SF Chamber Strings and Symphonic Strings and Berlin Strings main) are sufficient that I won't have the motivation to battle the library to get at what it has to offer. As I've said, though, I love the dynamic bows, and the purchase was worth it to me for that. I'll probably get the cellos if they are offered at a similar price for the dynamic bows as well.



I'm so sorry, as I had no idea their support was that bad...but, come to think of it, I never contacted them for help (must have been lucky). Had I known I would have told everyone right up front. 

Don't miss out on the basses! Actually, given the stated poor support, maybe not _*any*_thing more lol.


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## jbuhler (Jan 18, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> I'm so sorry, as I had no idea their support was that bad...but, come to think of it, I never contacted them for help (must have been lucky). Had I known I would have told everyone right up front.
> 
> Don't miss out on the basses! Actually, given the stated poor support, maybe not _*any*_thing more lol.


Well, fortunately, the dynamic bows work just fine, and they sound lovely as an ensemble on chords. In quick experiments, they also seem to mix well with the OACE waves, adding nice detail. 

At $28 I can think I'm just buying collections of dynamic bows with some added bonus legato patches and shorts! (I haven't yet worked with the shorts at all to see if I like them.) If I think about it that way, I don't expect any support either! But it would make me mad if I had bought this full price or one of their other big libraries and received this kind of support. Again, at $28, I'm willing to accept a lot of DIY. So I'm not adverse to buying 8dio at cut rate prices, but I'm leery of spending much for any of their big libraries.

What do you like especially about the basses?


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 18, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Secondly, there are some Factory presets that come with the multis that allow you to harmonize and transform what you play in countless ways.


The multis use so called multi kontakt scripts (enabled/disabled on the "KSP" button on the top right corner of Kontakt).
These presets are just example scripts that come with Kontakt (you can see them if you load a new Kontakt instance and enable the KSP switch).
They have nothing to do with the library and therefore are not doing anything useful.

I am used to loading different articulations or patches onto different tracks (or use Kontakt multitimbral), so I don't really care about the multis that much.
In my personal opinion you can easily live without the them.
All of the patches work without them too.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 18, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> What do you like especially about the basses?



Fat tone (that doesn't muddy up things too much), just enough grit to get nice and ugly when needed. The vibrato is more than fine for sketches...though I have used both the solo viola and bass for a few final mockups.

I find the overall tone of the Adagio Basses and Viole to be inspiring. That's why I have recommended then somewhat strenuously, especially for the sale prices...but not just (at least, for certain pet patches). It's been a marvelous tool for me over the past couple of years, but would champion the Hein over it without even doing a test drive with the Hein.
'
You know it could be that I simply messed around, studied up, and tweeked and used those solo instruments so much I basically hot rodded them for myself. I didn't just start messing with those instruments and got completely satisfactory sound right off. It still takes some dedication...which is why I wonder when I see a couple people here giving up so easily (not you). I would hope they don't do that with the more expensive libraries...aw hell what am I saying, everyone should do whatever the hell they want to, it's their money.


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## ism (Jan 18, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> Fat tone (that doesn't muddy up things too much), just enough grit to get nice and ugly when needed. The vibrato is more than fine for sketches...though I have used both the solo viola and bass for a few final mockups.
> 
> I find the overall tone of the Adagio Basses and Viole to be inspiring. That's why I have recommended then somewhat strenuously, especially for the sale prices...but not just (at least, for certain pet patches). It's been a marvelous tool for me over the past couple of years, but would champion the Hein over it without even doing a test drive with the Hein.
> '
> You know it could be that I simply messed around, studied up, and tweeked and used those solo instruments so much I basically hot rodded them for myself. I didn't just start messing with those instruments and got completely satisfactory sound right off. It still takes some dedication...which is why I wonder when I see a couple people here giving up so easily (not you). I would hope they don't do that with the more expensive libraries...aw hell what am I saying, everyone should do whatever the hell they want to, it's their money.




Any tips on how to get the solo viola to sound not terrible?


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 18, 2019)

ism said:


> Any tips on how to get the solo viola to sound not terrible?



Ask your Mom.


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## EgM (Jan 18, 2019)

Anyone thinking 8Dio's Adagio viola sounds bad needs to quit composing, or find something else to complain about.

Of course, that's just my personal opinion


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## EgM (Jan 19, 2019)

poetd said:


> No-ones saying it's bad.... just a little misunderstood?
> 
> The recording sounds lovely, but when some of the solo legatos sound like 4 out of tune violas suddenly appeared out of nowhere and mans on forum chatting about how he knows the library inside out and has mastered it's nuances, mans needs to share, especially when it was his thread bigging up the thing in the first place. imo of course.



I get that, don't worry


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## Mikro93 (Jan 19, 2019)

poetd said:


> 4 out of tune violas


Or, as we like to call them: 4 violas. 
Violas jokes never get old, do they?


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## IdealSequenceG (Jan 19, 2019)

Divisi Violas Test 2



[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/divisi-viola-test-2-mp3.17946/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## ism (Jan 19, 2019)

EgM said:


> Anyone thinking 8Dio's Adagio viola sounds bad needs to quit composing, or find something else to complain about.
> 
> Of course, that's just my personal opinion




Trust me, I can make the solo viola sound bad.



To the point that it really did convince me, at the time, that solo strings weren't worth even attempting to compose with. Or at last worth me trying to compose with - all respect to anyone with the skill to do better.

But uncritically singing the praises of the solo viola is a disservice particularly to inexperienced composers who might lack the (admittedly, borderline god like) midi programming skill of some people around here.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 19, 2019)

ism said:


> Any tips on how to get the solo viola to sound not terrible?


It doesn't sound terrible. People read these threads, let's try to give them decent and helpful info and not scare them with non-specific criticisms.

It's an old library that was steeply discounted. It's got problems: jumps around the stereo field, some intonation issues (opinions vary about how bad this is), some kinks in the legato, it can be difficult to play faster passages. 8dio has an awful reputation for quality control.

You can get a good sound from it, and a uniquely expressive one at that. There are maybe half a dozen user demos posted on this thread and none of them sound terrible.

Currently it's selling for $88, since the sale is over. I would not recommend that people buy it at this price. For $28, I would recommend it to people, with the caveats mentioned above.

So it's a fixer upper, not terrible. Obviously you don't want to pay full price for a fixer upper though.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 19, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> It doesn't sound terrible. People read these threads, let's try to give them decent and helpful info and not scare them with non-specific criticisms.
> 
> I



I've heard actual live and studio recordings with strings that sound far more terrible than the worse patch in the 8dio.

Sounds to me like certain people (_not_ you, @Land of Missing Parts ) want instant gratification all the time when the fact is that some of the best libraries are all about studying up and applying the tips *to* that library, so a composer can get past initial impressions and really get something out of that library. You get what you put in. Dismissing something as terrible before you even put any real work into it proves that you really have no interest in making a library your own...let alone in making music. It becomes more of a consumer concern (buy up/throw poop on the wall until something sticks).

Trust me, you don't want to approach any new library in a myopic manner, you are only cheating yourself.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 19, 2019)

poetd said:


> Strapped in and ready to learn!


Jumps around the stereo field--
I use the close mics, narrow the stereo field a bit to taste (using Logic's direction mixer), pan and add reverb with EAReverb. I think collapsing it to 100% mono is too much for me. Caveat: Spacialization is one of my weaker points.

Intonation--
In a mix, I'd leave it. In real life, intonation isn't usually 100% anyway. Exposed, I'd probably bounce to audio then fix with Logic's flex pitch, though I haven't done that yet. I also think it's worth considering what might be happening with the player to cause the pitch issues. It can help me learn about which areas are stronger and weaker for a viola, and help me write more idiomatically.

Kinks in legato--
There are a lot of parameters to tweak. Something like ten legato types for the ensemble and two for the solo. Within that, there are at least five settings for each. I'd experiment with different combinations of those first. If that's not working, consider using the sustain, marcato, or changing the line. I work with articulation sets (in Logic) so that it's easy to switch all of these editing note by note in the piano roll. I'm happy to share my art sets with other Logic users--you can PM me if you want them.

Fast passages--
I use the "natural" setting and it works most of the time for me so far.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 19, 2019)

All respect to everyone, but I keep seeing this flashing neon, hot green "*RTFM*"


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## jbuhler (Jan 19, 2019)

poetd said:


> Difficult sounds better than impossible. Any tips on moving from impossible to difficult?


I don’t find the library very playable because it is designed to change articulations frequently. I take from that that you need to stitch together the performance rather than play it in. 

So here’s how I go about it. First, it’s helpful if you think of this in terms of scoring a line or crafting a performance rather than composing, so you start with the line already more or less written. You might need to alter the line for the capabilities (or rather incapabilities) of the instrument but the limited playability means that the instrument is not a great sketching tool. YMMV. 

In any case with your line written try out different patches and/or articulations within the patches and find the one that renders some part of the line reasonably well. Then find a part that’s not working and try different programming, articulation, patch, etc. until it works reasonably well. Wash, rinse, repeat as you build up the programming of the part. Occasionally nothing will work all that well in which case you live with it, change to a different library, or change the line.

This process will be painfully slow as you start but as you get to know the instrument it speeds up considerably because you learn the capabilities of the instrument. 

The question is whether the ultimate result will be worth the investment of time. Here you have to go by what you have heard in demos, the testimonials of those who use the library, and most importantly what you are hearing in the sounds. When you play it or give it some midi to play, are you hearing moments where it’s giving you something you want and that you can’t get easily from another library? If not, it’s probably not worth the time of learning. If so, it almost certainly is.


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## ism (Jan 19, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> Sounds to me like certain people (_not_ you, @Land of Missing Parts ) want instant gratification all the time when the fact is that some of the best libraries are all about studying up and applying the tips *to* that library, so a composer can get past initial impressions and really get something out of that library. You get what you put in. Dismissing something as terrible before you even put any real work into it proves that you really have no interest in making a library your own...let alone in making music. It becomes more of a consumer concern (buy up/throw poop on the wall until something sticks).
> 
> Trust me, you don't want to approach any new library in a myopic manner, you are only cheating yourself.





Ok, I guess I'm "certain people".


And I'll first apologize if the above came across as inflammatory - was my intention to be little glib, but not inflammatory or dismissive. Clearly I should have thought that through a little more. 

But my question was sincere, designed to give you space to give more details on the brilliance you're finding in the solo viola. And I'm genuinely excited by the possibility that there might be useable expressive capabilities of these solo instruments that I completely missed.





Land of Missing Parts said:


> It doesn't sound terrible. People read these threads, let's try to give them decent and helpful info and not scare them with non-specific criticisms.




Ok, so here's a specific criticism - my experience in buying this library and spending months trying to writing with the solo strings is I was never able to write anything that didn't sound terrible. Not just unrealistic, but properly terrible. In fact every time I tried to use the solo string I ended up despondently closing the logic project .

Was this down to my inexperience and lack of skill in midi programming in particular and composition in general? Absolutely, unquestionably, and without any doubt whatsoever.

Was it *only* about my own inadequacy, "mytopia" for "instant gratification", or unwillingness to "put any real work in"?

Well no, actually. Solo strings are complex. How marketing copy represents (or misrepresents) the capacities of a solo strings is complex. How were write about and debate critically about solo strings on vi-c is complex. But also very interesting.


And conversely - I'd really love something more substantive to back up all this "non specific" praise of the solo instruments.

Because note that, in addition to my own - very specific and subjective - experience :

a) in Corey's (very helpful) review he basically dismisses the legato of the solo strings completely.


b) Beyond a few tiny passages on this thread, I've never heard a convincing piece written with 8dio solo strings.


c) While there's individual lines in the 8dio marketing that sound very good, for me personally there's no form of marketing that I trust less that 8dio marketing of solo strings. All marketing should taken with a grain of salt. 8dio solo strings marketing should be taken with large sections of Utah.


d) The only user demo that I know on these pages that attempts an actual composition using 8dio solo strings - is legitimately terrible. I use the word advisedly. And when the composer asks for help the only constructive advice anyone was here able to offer was recommendations for other libraries.



Against this, I do trust and respect the opinions of people like yourself. So I'm only too happy to have my earlier impressions challenged.


So I'm not trying to be negative. I really do think there is something truly wonderful at the heart of the 8dio violas, and I'm really enjoying this thread, which has really encouraged me to revisit the library both with the insights shared here, and with the experience I've gained since I gave up on Adagio in despondency a couple of years ago.


I also think that the price drop fundamentally changes how we can now talk about it as a 'fine brush' library rather that a workhorse. (I maintain my position that this is a *terrible* first library for inexperienced composer though, even at $28).


So its wonderful to hear that people can get these great results with the solo instruments. And I'd really love to hear more, and if anyone can share advice and insight on how to get better results, that would be great.


Anyway, great thread - and again apologies if my earlier comment pushed it in a negative direction. Totally not my intention.


More than that, thanks to this thread I've gone back to the ensemble patches and discovered some really wonderfully - and eminently useable - expressiveness in the ensemble patches that just wasn't able to fully grasp a couple of years ago. And I'd love to be able to do something similar with the solo patches.


But I think the larger issue is the solo strings are just so hard to write about that the default mode of writing about them is inherently 'non-specific'.


So +1 for "decent and helpful" discussion going forward.


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## ism (Jan 19, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> All respect to everyone, but I keep seeing this flashing neon, hot green "*RTFM*"



Sorry - I don't know what that means.


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## jbuhler (Jan 19, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> All respect to everyone, but I keep seeing this flashing neon, hot green "*RTFM*"


To be honest the manual for this library is not all that helpful on the technical side. What it does do is convey something of the flavor of the underlying philosophy of the library and so alerts you to the fact that you will be unlikely to be able to just plop midi on a patch, let it go with perhaps a bit of tweaking, and it will produce good results.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 19, 2019)

ism said:


> my experience in buying this library and spending months trying to writing with the solo strings is I was never able to write anything that didn't sound terrible. Not just unrealistic, but properly terrible. In fact every time I tried to use the solo string I ended up despondently closing the logic project .


Sounded terrible how? Can you be more specific? Maybe someone here can help.


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## ism (Jan 19, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> All respect to everyone, but I keep seeing this flashing neon, hot green "*RTFM*"




Sigh. Ok I get it now.

And excellent advice of course.

But can I just suggest that first, you’re actually doing a great job in constructively litigating your point about the brilliance of this library, and I really appreciate it.

But second, that while some frustration and criticism of this library - not least by myself - does come from inexperience and lack of skill. A) it’s not just that, and b) maybe such ignorance might be better treated as an opportunity so reinforce you points via further constructive litigation of your insight.


But, it’s frustraiting, I do get that.


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## ism (Jan 19, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Sounded terrible how? Can you be more specific?



Well it was a couple of years ago, so it hard to be too specific. Partly because I lacked the critical framework at the time to fully understand why what I was writing was so terrible. I’ve been writing a lot about solo strings in these pages, In part because I’ve really put in enormous effort since then do better understand the these instruments and how to approach them.

And I was asking for advice here to presage going back and revisiting in the solo viola in terms of what I’ve learned since.


But I do recall in particular (as Corey says in his review) that the cross fade doesn’t work well. I seem to recall that it’s better on some notes that others, and that this viola is better than the violin.

But the cross fade isn‘t just limited, it’s in some cases completely broken. “4 violas playing out of tune” isn’t really that much of an exaggeration. Modern instrument wouldn’t ship with this kind of phasing. they would either do it better (spitfire, Chris Hein) or the would simply prevent crossfade from happening at all (Joshua Bell). But it’s an old instrument so perhaps this was the state of the art at the time. 

think it may also have been that I was trying to play in a style that just wasn’t within, or even close to, the expressive space the instrument is designed for. I tend to really love using the crossfade and crafting the dynamics, for instance.

Again, I was totally clueless at the time. And at least some of these insults being thrown at inexperienced users (and in some sense even this “spitfire fanboy” invective, in that the spitfire approach does happen to align more easily with the expressive spaces I often tend to gravitate towards) , aren’t exactly wrong. If not exactly helpful either. 

But debating whether this instrument ‘terrible’ vs ‘not terrible’ is equally unhelpful (and I’m partly guilty of this, so I will again apologize). In that it obscures the particular complexities of solo string instruments.

It this a ‘terrible’ instrument? I have no idea - though people who’s work I respect are arguing that there’s great things to be done with it and I’d like to understand that more.

Have I ever been able to make it sound not terrible - sadly no. 

Very different questions of course.


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## jbuhler (Jan 19, 2019)

ism said:


> Sigh. Ok I get it now.
> 
> And excellent advice of course.
> 
> ...


The library overall is extremely frustrating. I haven't yet looked at the solo instrument, so can't speak to that, but from my very limited experience with the main instrument, it's clear that this is a complex instrument that does not yield whatever excellent performances might be coaxed from it easily. As you've noted in other threads, solo instruments are extraordinarily limited and at this point developers still have to choose small sweet spots to optimize. So it's certainly possible that whatever the solo instrument is optimized for simply doesn't suit any of the things you tried to get it to do. It's also completely possible that it's not really optimized for anything because 8dio didn't have a good focus on the solo instrument. I do wonder if it has decent arcs just as individual samples, simply because that does seem to be something that 8dio libraries select for, and to my ear those arcs are the best part of the main library.

At the same time and going back to the viola section, all of my viola sections are subpar on legato. I have this 8dio one, SCS, SSS, and Berlin Strings and all of them crash and burn on relatively straightforward legato lines at medium speed. (That reminds me, I need to try the Ark 2 mid strings patch to see if it can handle some of these better.) You don't notice it much when they are doubling another instrument but if you emphasize a certain kind of line, they just don't sound good. It's similar with the second violins, except not quite as pronounced in the latter. I chalk it up in part to developers not prioritizing the legato on violas and second violins.

I was working on a waltz the other night and trying to do the under sixth and octave below doubling with second violin doing the under sixth and the viola the octave below, and it was not pretty because of the sloppiness of the legatos for the second violins and violas. I ran through all my libraries. The SF solo viola did well on it, but everything else was garbage or close to it. Ended up not using the legato at all and converting some of the passage to shorts rather than legato with the solo viola legato serving to stitch it together. <Insert obligatory viola joke.> Sorry to drift off-topic.


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## ism (Jan 19, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> So it's certainly possible that whatever the solo instrument is optimized for simply doesn't suit any of the things you tried to get it to do. It's also completely possible that it's not really optimized for anything because 8dio didn't have a good focus on the solo instrument.



Exactly. And I'd welcome any insight into how to understand exactly what the sweet spot of solo viola instrument is.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jan 19, 2019)

Thank you @Parsifal666 for starting this thread. I decided to buy it based on your post and the video by @Cory Pelizzari. I'm so glad I did.


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## sostenuto (Jan 19, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> It doesn't sound terrible. People read these threads, let's try to give them decent and helpful info and not scare them with non-specific criticisms.
> 
> It's an old library that was steeply discounted. It's got problems: jumps around the stereo field, some intonation issues (opinions vary about how bad this is), some kinks in the legato, it can be difficult to play faster passages. 8dio has an aweful reputation for quality control.
> 
> ...



Ha ha !!  Luv '_fixer upper_' descriptor ! 
May fit a surprisingly broad range of Libs these days


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## ism (Jan 19, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> It doesn't sound terrible. People read these threads, let's try to give them decent and helpful info and not scare them with non-specific criticisms.
> 
> It's an old library that was steeply discounted. It's got problems: jumps around the stereo field, some intonation issues (opinions vary about how bad this is), some kinks in the legato, it can be difficult to play faster passages. 8dio has an awful reputation for quality control.
> 
> ...



Incidentally, I do agree with this for the library as a whole. But any tips on specifically how the solo viola is fixer upper?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 19, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> Ha ha !!  Luv '_fixer upper_' descriptor !
> May fit a surprisingly broad range of Libs these days


If you want the opposite of a fixer upper, look at Performance Samples. Amazing sounds with hardly any effort. And a free solo violin! Life is good.


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## novaburst (Jan 19, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Currently it's selling for $88, since the sale is over. I would not recommend that people buy it at this price. For $28



The value of the library is perhaps worth more than $88.00 Yes it has its issues but for every bad note it has you can find 5 good usable notes it really does have a lot of stuff you can use and the truth is as with all library's you will never use all the notes and articulations of the library, it just want happen.

generally we stick around a certain style of music that only require a fraction of what most library's offer.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 19, 2019)

ism said:


> any tips on specifically how the solo viola is fixer upper?


I though Rob's solo viola sample was a great example of what the viola does well. Try recreating that.

Another idea: Watch the video walkthroughs and play along. You can get a sense for how the creators meant for it to be used.

Trouble shooting: I posted my thoughts on these specific issues.


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## novaburst (Jan 19, 2019)

poetd said:


> Lets face it - todays newer instruments are geared usually to be great out of the box - and that's just how things are now. Technology moves on and expectations with it.



Yes some of todays library's give you the one note wonder, but so does East West HS and that library is old.

As I have mention before the detail and make up of this library seems to be geared towards those that understand how to use real life strings and that can put a novice on the back foot.


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## ism (Jan 19, 2019)

On the solo viola:

Lots of respect to Troels and Rob for getting some really beautiful lines out of this instrument, and for anyone else who reports great results.


But quickly revisiting the instrument, and putting my initial disappointment through a more critical lens, here’s a list of what I think tripped me up so badly...


I’m going to phrase this negatively, but what I’d really like is a positive version of this that gives some guidance on how to avoid the instrument’s limitations and focus on its strengths. (Because if you don’t understand both the limitations and the strength, and their interactions, that’s when it really becomes a terribly instrument)



1. Phasing in some legato intervals


I incorrectly recalled above that it was phasing in the dynamic layers was the deal breaker (I might have been thinking about the violin).


But it's actually in some of the legato transitions. Notably, noodle about in C in the lowest octave and you’ll find some of the worst example: C -> E is very phasey, A -> G is similarly broken and so on. There are some beautiful legato transitions, particularly higher in the register, and particularly when you play the fast natural legato. But my impression was unhappily formed noodling in mostly in C major, mosty in the lower octaves.


To get good results I think you need to just avoid certain intervals, or find another way to cover up the phasing.

C minor appears to have significantly fewer bad intervals, for instance. So that's one option.




2. No soft dynamics.


My go-to phrasing tends to be to start softly. But this instrument simply doesn’t have a p layer, so what you get is the uncanniness of a mf sample playing at low volume.


What I now realize is this kind of uncanniness just drives me crazy. My fix is that if the instrument doesn’t have p samples, then don’t play p notes.


It particularly drove me crazy at the time, I think, because:


a) I hadn’t quite identified just how much specifically the uncanniness of fake dynamics bothers be (I have similar issues with the Blakus cello, and wrote a script to compress the dynamics of the new spitfire solo strings to avoid even the hint of such uncanniness. So while ymmv, but I’m entirely neurotic about fake dynamics when they crossover into the uncanny).


b) The beautiful demos make excellent use of the beautiful and natural decrescendos baked into the dynamic arcs. But of course baked in beautiful and natural decrescendos doesn’t imply the presence of beautiful and natural crescendos.

Somehow - and this may have been a little naive - this wasn’t completely obvious to me when I bought the instrument.

I think the loveliness of the decrescendos also makes the uncanniness of the fake crescendo just all the much worse.

So good results require not attempting much in the way of crescendos within a single notes.

(Note that in jettisoning the dynamic arcs completely, Anthology's solo strings are suffer immensely by comparison).


3. Sustains are kind of static.


This library is at its best with a) the dynamic arcs (ie progressive vibrato) and b) the fast, natural legatos, especially in the higher registers.


But unless you have a dynamic arc, I really don’t like the sustains. They have a, I don't know almost "machine gunny", static feel (unlike that actual sustains of the library).


Unfortunately, the way the instrument works, the first note is always a sustain.

The fix for this is to write lines that don’t start with a long note. (Which is unfortunately, given that this is how I typically like to start viola lines).




4. Limited ability to craft dynamics of phrasing.


This kind of repeats the above.


But the take away is that to get good results you need to just go with the pre recorded dynamic arcs as much as possible.


Which suggests to me that it would be better to think of the instrument as closer in concept to Virharmonic than, for instance, Spitfire. And accepting that you have little means to satisfactorily craft the opening of a phrase.


My instinct being to go crazy with the mod wheel to try to craft the phrases, well it was always going to sound terrible.



5. Intonation is all over the place.


The tuning issues vary by note.


All the impressive demos are completely solo, where you can just about imagine that the intonation is a kind of expressiveness as opposed to bad tuning.


My experience is that when you put the instruments in context the intonation issue becomes suddenly much more serious. Its possible that this difficulty interacts with the weakness of my mixing skill. But I’ve found it hard to blend.



So the suggestion of manually correcting the intonation ... well maybe ... if there’s enough that the instrument does uniquely well to merit this kind of hassle.


6. bumpy legatos etc

The lib also has some bumpiness in the legatos, same as most libraries. But it's generally not a deal breaker.

So I just want to make the point that a minor limitations in the realism isn't the what makes the instrument difficult, it's these much more fundamental flaws and/or design limitations. Or at least, the failure to understand them properly.



From this, I can now start to see the general shape of the inverse of these limitations - a set of positive principles on how to get the best out of the instrument. But rather that attempt to formulate it myself, maybe this would be an interesting thing to discuss?


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## ism (Jan 19, 2019)

Here's a quick experiment with the ensemble violas, which comes in part from thinking about the viola's more like something more along the lines of the Virharmonic model - where central to the performance is selecting the right arc for the moment.

But also I was wondering what would happen if you use a viola line more like I've been using the claire piccolo and alto flutes - which is for lyrical leads. I thing the claire winds would be very difficult to work with as regular orchestral winds, but when you have them up front for a very lyrical moment, they can be very lovely, and you can really use the arcs (on the legato patch) to good effect.



So similarly, here I've laid down some very basic chords with Spitfire studio cellos, and noodled a viola line over top - but exposed enough so that you can really make use of the expressiveness of the various arcs first with the Adagio soft slur, followed by Agitato violas.



The Adagio brings an interesting contrast - it has a slightly harder edge, and yet the gentle articulations, when you ensure they're sufficiently exposed in the mix, have quite a lovely effect.

Haven't corrected the stereo issues which are annoying, but not too severe on these patches.

These are just noodles, with key switching in real time. And there is quite a nice expressiveness in being able to integrate the arcs into a performance.


Tried to do something similar with the solo viola. But I'm sorry to report it sounded quite terrible.


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## jbuhler (Jan 20, 2019)

ism said:


> Here's a quick experiment with the ensemble violas, which comes in part from thinking about the viola's more like something more along the lines of the Virharmonic model - where central to the performance is selecting the right arc for the moment.
> 
> But also I was wondering what would happen if you use a viola line more like I've been using the claire piccolo and alto flutes - which is for lyrical leads. I thing the claire winds would be very difficult to work with as regular orchestral winds, but when you have them up front for a very lyrical moment, they can be very lovely, and you can really use the arcs (on the legato patch) to good effect.
> 
> ...



Some lovely sounds in your rendition of the Adagio violas in particular. It's not just that the legato is bumpy, though, but also that the number of choices make it somewhat complicated to control. This is what I was noticing in messing around with the solo viola last night. You can get quite good things out of it in its sweet spot, but it takes a lot of shifting and sorting among the articulations and patches. The solo viola is a bit simpler than the main library in this respect because it has far fewer alternatives, but it's still a lot to keep straight and the library doesn't help matters. For instance, I found I had to balance the patches before I even started to ensure they matched at the same point of the modwheel. And the solo instrument has bad notes on some patches/articulations so you have to avoid those and use a different one. The number of patches/articulations for the main instrument are quite a lot higher, increasing complexity even further. All of that makes the instrument quite cumbersome compared to newer instruments that automate through scripting a lot of the switching you have to do manually on this one. Of course that automation brings a loss as well as a gain, and maybe what you say about the SF solo strings applies to this library as well: it is flexible enough that it allows the instrument to sound bad if you ask it to do something that is outside its sweet spot, but that seeming negative is actually just a consequence of the degree of choice that it allows. I think that we would both agree that the SF solo instrument manage this tradeoff much better (hardly surprising given that the SF library is both much newer and a dedicated solo library), but it does speak to a kind of affinity on this narrow point, even though 8dio and SF seem to me to otherwise have radically different approaches to sampling in general.


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## sostenuto (Jan 20, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Some lovely sounds in your rendition of the Adagio violas in particular. ***********
> I think that we would both agree that the SF solo instrument manage this tradeoff much better (hardly surprising given that the SF library is both much newer and a dedicated solo library), but it does speak to a kind of affinity on this narrow point, even though 8dio and SF seem to me to otherwise have radically different approaches to sampling in general.



… and SF _ Alternative Solo Strings as well ?


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## jbuhler (Jan 20, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> … and SF _ Alternative Solo Strings as well ?


I don't have SF Alternative Solo Strings, and haven't yet looked at them carefully, so I can't really speak to it directly. It does seem like before the current trend of making instruments playable and, to deploy @ism's useful term, increasingly "plonkable," that the idea of the VI was more along the lines of analytical comprehensiveness for a library—more articulations, more variants, allowing the molding of performances through careful selection, even at the expense of often impenetrable complexity. The basic difficulty was and continues to be the joins (hence the obsession on legato) that creates a convincing performance in the nature of a set of splines. But there are all kinds of ways the joins can go wrong and legato only solves some of them (and legato is often not the right one, even if you have many different legatos to choose among). And it is immensely complex and time consuming crafting performances this way. So it's no surprise that recent instruments have taken to automating through scripting a lot of this work. This makes the current generation of instruments infinitely more playable and increasingly plonkable, but at the cost of the loss of control and access to some of the specificity allowed by the older model. 

I should enter the caveat that I'm talking about tendencies here, not absolutes so I'm drawing a darker analytical line between the current libraries and older ones than actually exists, because the older libraries needed to be useable and appealing and current libraries need flexibility. But I do think they placed emphasis on different points in negotiating that tradeoff, and it's interesting thinking about why that emphasis changed, which I don't think only had to do with technological improvements (though those improvements were a precondition for the change).


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## sostenuto (Jan 20, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> I don't have SF Alternative Solo Strings, and haven't yet looked at them carefully, so I can't really speak to it directly. It does seem like before the current trend of making instruments playable and, to deploy @ism's useful term, increasingly "plonkable," that the idea of the VI was more along the lines of analytical comprehensiveness for a library—more articulations, more variants, allowing the molding of performances through careful selection, even at the expense of often impenetrable complexity. ***********
> I should enter the caveat that I'm talking about tendencies here, not absolutes so I'm drawing a darker analytical line between the current libraries and older ones than actually exists, because the older libraries needed to be useable and appealing and current libraries need flexibility. *******



Thank-you. Expertise here goes well beyond personal level, yet helps make decisions on these library expenditures. 
'Terrible' for ~$28. and questionably 'Plonkable' for $300. /$400. are not trivial choices.


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## jbuhler (Jan 20, 2019)

At $28, I don't think the Adagio Violas are terrible. They are quite a good buy. In fact I don't think they are terrible at all, though it's perfectly possible to make them sound terrible in ways that is much harder to do with recent libraries. But they are a real challenge to use: out of tune notes, phasing issues, legatos that don't always work right, levels between patches not well matched, etc. Under the work flow for which this library was designed, many of those issues were not as much of a big deal, but working with current libraries, it makes those issues more of a problem, because we don't generally piece things together quite the same way. At least I don't unless I'm working with a choir or voice, libraries that, for whatever reason (well, because of the need to deal with the high variability of words), retain much more of that older work flow.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 20, 2019)

Well I like the 8dio Violas so far I used them in one of my actuall production and they add imo a very nice sonic flavor to my other violas. I am satisfied with the purchase so far and it was dirt cheap..just my few cents.


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## jbuhler (Jan 20, 2019)

poetd said:


> Old pianos are full of character and a life that some think more modern pianos lack.
> But ask any concert pianist if they'd rather play a 100 year old piano or a newer one, chances are they'll pick the newer one because it gives them greater CONTROL of the performance rather than being hemmed in by the sonic characteristics of an older instrument.
> 
> Doesn't mean that the old piano doesn't have it's uses when you need that specific sound though.
> ...


I think you often have more control with the older instruments because the new instruments have been optimized for other things. But I agree with you that I generally prefer to work with recent ones because they generally reduce complexity in useful ways that allows me to better exercise my control over them. But I find it's often harder to get around the limitations of the newer instruments because you are more at the mercy of the scripting.


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## jbuhler (Jan 20, 2019)

poetd said:


> My thoughts on the library - nice characterful rich sounds, wonky as all heck in places - the elders will tell you tales about how it comes from a place in time where men were real men, composers were real composers and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.


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## jbuhler (Jan 20, 2019)

jbuhler said:


>




Also that was way too complicated figuring out how to get the gif to embed.


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## ism (Jan 20, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> Thank-you. Expertise here goes well beyond personal level, yet helps make decisions on these library expenditures.
> 'Terrible' for ~$28. and questionably 'Plonkable' for $300. /$400. are not trivial choices.




So just to be really, really, clear - I never call this a terrible library. There's a lot that I really love about it.

I did say that it's a terrible *first* library. Because as amazing as the demos sound, this library original cost something like two or three thousand dollars, and there was never any need to make any concessions to beginners. And all the wonkiness you have to contend with in the violas along increases exponentially with you have to simultaneously deal with the enormous inconsistencies across the Adagio sections as well as within them. I bitterly regret buying this as a first library. But I'm actually very happy to have it now that I don't need to rely on it as a primary library.

And I also said that I don't know how to make the solo viola sound not terrible. And unfortunately this remains true - I especially don't know how to get it to blend with anything, I think because of the intonation issues. I look forward to hearing a convincing use of this in anything more that a demo phrase.

Note that even at $28, were you to multiply it by 5 sections, then it's still about as expensive as Light and Sound Chamber strings - which would be an excellent first library.

But I doubt we'll see the cello an violin on this kind of sale - although maybe we might hope for $38 sales over the next couple of years. Which would make this as roughly as expensive as Spitfire studio strings - another excellent first library.


That said - for $28 dollars, worth it for the dynamics bowing alone. And lots more to love besides.


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## ism (Jan 20, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> … and SF _ Alternative Solo Strings as well ?




I don't think I would put the alt-ss in the same category here. They're very lovely, but I would understand them more as a texture library. There's great depth in the way you can craft the sonority - which is I think what people mean when they talk about "vertical develop". It does have legatos, but they're very limited, I would never used them for anything exposed - unless you're writing in a very idiosyncratic style that aligns with the Andy Blaney demos (I don't write in that style and so have never found them useful, except in doubling and thickening, so we're back to "vertical development").

Maybe a way to think of them is something along the lines of "LCO first chairs" - so performability/ playability isn't such an important concept in such a library.




jbuhler said:


> it allows the instrument to sound bad if you ask it to do something that is outside its sweet spot, but that seeming negative is actually just a consequence of the degree of choice that it allows. I think that we would both agree that the SF solo instrument manage this tradeoff much better (hardly surprising given that the SF library is both much newer and a dedicated solo library), but it does speak to a kind of affinity on this narrow point, even though 8dio and SF seem to me to otherwise have radically different approaches to sampling in general.





I'de broadly agree with this - except that the spitfire breaks when you move out of the stylistic sweet spot that arises from the design decisions. Wheres Adagio additional breaks because of poor implementation.

This means that you don't just have to worry about it breaking when you push the style of your performance too far in one direction or another. Whereas, especially with the solo viola, you additional have to worry that it will break if you deviate into play a note that's excessively out of tune, or an interval that's unusable phasey. Because getting good results also means using the dynamic arcs also, you're also very limited in the tempo at which a phrase will work. The natural legato really can sound wonderful - but it's basically a "fast legato dynamic arc", and can be unforgiving of deviations in tempo.

Wheres with spitfire solo strings if it works in C minor, it's probably going to work in C major, so you don't have the overhead of planning your melodies to avoid those kinds of black holes in the universe of possible viola lines.

Which is perhaps why I'm having such a terrible time figuring getting any practical sense of just what is the sweet spot of the solo viola.


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## jbuhler (Jan 20, 2019)

ism said:


> I did say that it's a terrible *first* library. Because as amazing as the demos sound, this library original cost soothing like two or three thousand dollars, and there was never any need to make any concessions to beginners.


I think this is right. It is not a good first library. It's probably not even a good second library. The dynamic bows have a niche, so if you are needing something to supplement or give additional functionality to the OACE waves, for instance, it is very good for that. And I think that's even true of the solo viola. All of the various arcs in the different parts of the library can be useful for the varying kinds of longs in such contexts as well. For $28, it has real value as a supplement in that way. 

The legatos are more questionable in my opinion. While I'm reasonably happy with what I can craft from the library (both section and solo), it is very fussy, takes a relatively long time to program, and it's not apparent to me that the library excels in some aspect over other libraries that take much less work getting there. That is, its sweet spots are not comparatively distinctive, at least, I don't think so, but now that I've crafted a few phrases I'm reasonably happy with I will try them on my other libraries and see if I can, as I believe, get similar results in much less time.


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## jbuhler (Jan 20, 2019)

ism said:


> I'de broadly agree with this - except that the spitfire breaks when you move out of the stylistic sweet spot that arises from the design decisions. Wheres Adagio additional breaks because of poor implementation.


Yes, this is largely true, and it's why hitting up against the limitations of the SF instruments is not maddening the way this library can be, but I also wonder how much of what we see as poor implementation now is at root a product of that analytic, modular comprehensibility that was part of older instrument design that focused on providing a large inventory of possibilities. I mean, one thing that is very interesting about working for a spell using this library is how if feels like stepping back in time in terms of work flow and library functionality.


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## ism (Jan 20, 2019)

Here's another example with the ensemble legato, what I think refines my notion of where there's a real sweet spot in this library:



Again it's Spitfire flautanos on the Vc + Vl, with the sweet slur Va legato, much the same as the above, but a little less crude as a proof of concept. A few thoughts:

1. The dynamic bowings really add something.

Again, the sweet spot I imagine comes from when an Adagio section comes to the foreground for a particularly lyrical passage. And in this context, I really think the various dynamic arcs (that is, the legato keyswitches, not the separate patch) - in this example short bow, short bow 2, medium arc + heavy vibrato - really do something add something uniquely lovely, if used carefully.

2. You need to have space in the mix to hear the dynamic arcs.

I'm pleased with how it mixes with the softer spitfire flautandos. But it's not just that you need space in the mix in order for the expressive nuances of the dyanamic arcs to be even audible. It's that if you're using all the Adagio sections, the hollywood intensity of all 4 Adagio sections risks overwhelming the detailed nuances of the dynamic arcs, and I tend to feel that it's hard to get much audible benefit from them - in such cases I'd probably go with CSS or some such in that an extra dynamic layer and better quality cross fade would, in practice, probably give you better results than the beautiful, yet in practice, all but imperceptible details of the Adagio arcs.


But as a lyrical foreground on a more subtle background, I'm starting to feel this is a real sweet spot where the Adagio concept really benefits the kind of music I want to write.

(Not saying there's aren't other sweet spots of course, just that this is one that that might suit my own style).


3. Unexpectedly good performability.

There's an example here that might help refine the notion of "performability".

And the key concept here is that the melody here comes from improvising a performance with the arc key switches in real time. For instance the first 4 notes use short bowing. Then as we get more intense move to the medium arc and the heavy vibrato.

And there a real sense in which my ability to improvise such a melody depends on the ability explore the different expressive senses I get from the different arcs. I'm not sure that I think the Loure or the "2 bows exp" are terribly useful. Or that the difference between "short bow 1" and "short bow 2" are consciously audible in context. But in general, you can a very nice short bow effect, and the ability to intensify from Xfade -> medium arc -> and heavy vibrato.

And with a bit of practice, this a real "performability" here that might contribute to actually composition and improvisation, as opposed to just some nice nuances you can slap on afterwards.

4. Other legatos ... as keyswitches?

To get this performability, I'm focusing on using a single legato patch. But in general, I think tweaking the legato type on a second or third pass is perfectly ok. Or at least, I think that focusing on performing with the arc keyswitches adds more to the performability - or the compositionally significant part of the performability - that simply selecting the legatos.

It's such a pity 8dio abandoned this library for the expressively much inferior Anthology. Even by the time they made Adagio, they had much a more practical approach to the legatos worked out.




5. This also explains why Anthology is so disappointing.


I especially dislike the solo legatos in Anthology - and I think this is down to the abandonment of the dynamic arcs, and indeed the central philosophy of the library (if you believe the marketing).



jbuhler said:


> but I also wonder how much of what we see as poor implementation now is at root a product of that analytic, modular comprehensibility that was part of older instrument design that focused on providing a large inventory of possibilities.



I think there's some of this. But wonder if it isn't predominantly just the industry gaining experience in what actually works.

My sense with Anthology is that it responded to some perception that market had spoken and the CSS model was the winner. All the marketing copy about "this is what we wanted all along" was clearly grotesque marketing happy talk. But it also basically announced the abandoning of the whole Adagio concept - or what the marketing had previously claimed was the whole concept, if you happen to be someone who believes 8dio marketing.

So echoing what I said above, I have this sense that the 4 dynamic layers and much smoother crossfade and legato of CSS (and probably also the SSS/SCS performance patches) had become good enough to let you craft the phrase well enough that in most practical cases the additional expressive benefits of the Adagio approach was mostly inaudible. And certain the CSS approach to rebowing is far superior to the fiddly and frustrating Loure approach.

So while CSS delivers superb plonkabilty, it's in some sense also a legitimate side effect of genuinely better performability. And a better understanding of what's actually most important , in practice.

And Century strings confirms that the Adagio approach has been largely abandoned (excepting the separate dynamic arc patches, ).

Which is great pity, as there remains something in the heart of the Adagio approach that I really think is exceptionally lovely.

Still, the "Adagio philosophy" lives on in various places - most obviously in solo string libraries like the Bohemian and Emotional Violin.

But also in the innovations of Light and Sound Chamber strings dynamic arcs. Which are eminently playable and hopefully a proof of concept that it's absolutely possible to execute dynamic arcs both beautiful and practically which I hope the rest of the industry is taking note of (ahem - @Spitfire Team , how about integrating those Olafur waves into SCS more deeply? Because that would be amazing.)


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## sostenuto (Jan 20, 2019)

OK. Was trying to be careful using marks around 'terrible' so as not to infer direct quote.
But c'mon …. almost everything posted is clearly critical. I have no judgements about any of that and remain comfortable with $28. spent, to use and learn.
Anthology is also battered, and perhaps a better choice may have been L&S Chamber Strings … which has also seen conflicting comment. 
Are KH Diamond Chamber Strings waaay deficient versus L&S ?

Still likely pick up Adagio Cellos and Basses if they are promo'd.

_Sorry for late edit. _ Did not want to sound sarcastic. Just having fun while trying seriously to build more affordable lib content.


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## ism (Jan 20, 2019)

No worries, but



sostenuto said:


> almost everything posted is clearly critical.



I don’t see this at all ... sure people are noting it’s flaws, but mostly this thread is about the brilliance that can be found in the library.


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## jbuhler (Jan 20, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> OK. Was trying to be careful using marks around 'terrible' so as not to infer direct quote.
> But c'mon …. almost everything posted is clearly critical. I have no judgements about any of that and remain comfortable with $28. spent, to use and learn.
> Anthology is also battered, and perhaps a better choice may have been L&S Chamber Strings … which has also seen conflicting comment.
> Still likely pick up Adagio Cellos and Basses if they are promo'd. Will then have a plethora of mediocre Strings libs NI_Symphony Essentials, KH_ Diamond Symphony /Virtuoso Ensembles /Spotlight Solo Strings, 8DIO x,y,z _ to wallow in with ignorant glee.


The "problem" is that none of the libraries is perfect, and they each choose to optimize certain things. Nearly every library that is released these days does something well, usually multiple things. Yet the marketing for almost every library also overpromises. Everyone's needs are different and so trying to figure out if a particular library is going to be a useful addition can be difficult. The libraries also differ quite a lot in terms of complexity. Adagio is a very complex library in that it requires knowing how to do a lot of things in order to get it to sound decent. And comparatively it takes a long time to program it. I think that's why @ism says it is not a good first library. Yet, even this library has items, such as the dynamic bows, that would be useful to someone starting out—they are in fact very plonkable—assuming you want to write music that does those sorts of things.


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## sostenuto (Jan 20, 2019)

ism said:


> No worries, but
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t see this at all ... sure people are noting it’s flaws, but mostly this thread is about the brilliance that can be found in the library.



My bad grammer … not referring to Thread overall but recent detailed, technical posts. 
The limited, and specific, strengths mentioned are noted.


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## Ihnoc (Jan 21, 2019)

ism said:


> 5. This also explains why Anthology is so disappointing.
> ...
> I especially dislike the solo legatos in Anthology - and I think this is down to the abandonment of the dynamic arcs, and indeed the central philosophy of the library (if you believe the marketing).
> ...



Do you have some comparisons of the same lines between the Adagio/Agitato instruments and the Anthology ones? I'm personally more interested in the ensembles than the solo or divisi instruments, but I can't find like for like comparisons for either.

I personally feel that, for what I want it for, buying into Anthology is going to be simpler to integrate with Cinematic Studio Strings and my workflow than Adagio will be (as you suggest). Having said that, there's a few patches and articulations in the Adagio Violas that I might go the other way, depending on the comparisons in sound.


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## ism (Jan 21, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> My bad grammer … not referring to Thread overall but recent detailed, technical posts.




Just to be difficult ... i’m going to debate that these even the recent technical posts have been especially negative ....

My premise is always that the limitations of a library are often a consequence of design decisions, and insofar as the strengths rest upon these decision, the strengths also hinge on the weaknesses.

Properly understanding the limitations of the solo viola, for instance, is critical for understanding where it’s strengths lie and finding the sweet spots etc. And in working through why is sometimes doesn't give good results, I was at the same time focusing in on where its strengths actually lie. And in this sense, trying to figure out why the 2 or 3 demos we have do sound good, and why I struggle to reproduce this success.

And conversely, repeatedly citing two or three demo lines that sound good doesn’t necessarily in itself give a lot of insight into the true strengths of the library. (At worst - and 8dio marketing is a case study in this - it can as much serve to obfuscate what the instrument is about.)

Admittedly, the solo viola is a particularly extreme example. But there is a general principle here.


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## ism (Jan 21, 2019)

Ihnoc said:


> Do you have some comparisons of the same lines between the Adagio/Agitato instruments and the Anthology ones? I'm personally more interested in the ensembles than the solo or divisi instruments, but I can't find like for like comparisons for either.
> 
> I personally feel that, for what I want it for, buying into Anthology is going to be simpler to integrate with Cinematic Studio Strings and my workflow than Adagio will be (as you suggest). Having said that, there's a few patches and articulations in the Adagio Violas that I might go the other way, depending on the comparisons in sound.




I can share a comparison if you think that would be helpful.

But I'm curious, given that you have CSS, what you're additionally looking to get from Anthology?

Anthology does have a different, and very lovely sound from CSS, which I tend to think of as a kind of "Hollywood intensity" to CSS's controlled "studio gorgeousness" .

So in Anthology you have this different sound, as well as the dynamic arc patches and the divisi. But otherwise, Anthology feels like an awkward attempt to crush Adagio/Agitato into the CSS business model. It's partially successful, in the it's much easier to use. But it comes at the loss of a great deal of the character and expressiveness of Adagio/Agitato.

CSS was designed form the start to invest all its energies in superb crossfading. And its hardly a surprise that Anthology, which whatever the marketing claims, was designed with a very different philosophy in mind, can't compete wth CSS or SCS and other libraries on a technical level.


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## sostenuto (Jan 21, 2019)

ism said:


> Just to be difficult ... i’m going to debate that these even the recent technical posts have been especially negative ....
> My premise is always that the limitations of a library are often a consequence of design decisions, and insofar as the strengths rest upon these decision, the strengths also hinge on the weaknesses.
> 
> Properly understanding the limitations of the solo viola, for instance, is critical for understanding where it’s strengths lie and finding the sweet spots etc. And in working through why is sometimes doesn't give good results, I was at the same time focusing in on where its strengths actually lie.
> ...



I'm fine with this, as trying to digest your extensive level of String (Viola) knowledge is far beyond my abilities to understand fully. Naturally, I tend to pick up bits and pieces which do not reflect the whole context in which they are presented. 

I will continue to read, and reread, to learn what I can for future reference. My current situation is a true dilemma, as continuing work with String libraries _now on-board_, reinforces learning flawed implementations and trusting them to be correct. This current set of focused (viola) Posted analyses, while learning Adagio Violas and Anthology, may improve awareness of issues discussed.

Thanks and regards


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 21, 2019)

Ihnoc said:


> Do you have some comparisons of the same lines between the Adagio/Agitato instruments and the Anthology ones?


Cory does a quick a/b of Anthology and Agitato/Adagio in his video, in case that helps. That second Anthology legato example is pretty jacked up.


Another comparison you might find helpful. There was a violin blind shootout a few months ago. It's a long thread worth going through in its entirety, but to skip to the comparison you want you can download the files here and listen to the first two, which are 1.Adagio, 2.Agitato. There are other 8dio ones in there if you check the unblinding list and Anthology might make an appearance. Basically, each instrument is put through its paces in a seven part obstacle course meant to simulate the hardest things for a VI legato to pull off.


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## ism (Jan 21, 2019)

Corey's video is helpful in it's comparison between Adagio and Anthology, but it doesn't really go into the details of the dynamic arcs.

So here's a third little experiment:



First the line from the above noodle with viola soloed, then repeated on Anthology.

To try to get a fair comparison I've tweaked the midi data on the Anthology section, in attempt to simulate the dynamics baked into the arcs on the Adagio line.

I think the arcs on the Adagio section have a much more emotional quality. But keep in mind that this line is crafted explicitly to explore the kind of phrases that really benefit from the arcs. Although the busier the mix the less this would matter.

I really think for violas in the lower registers, for this kind of line, Adagio is fantastically beautiful and expressive.

I'm especially really starting to love the short bows - check out the difference between short bow 1 and 2 on the first two (2-note) phrases. Subtle, but really quite a beautiful effect if you leave enough space in the mix for it to be heard.

So even within the sweet spot of this library, delicate phrases in the lowest viola register is an especially lovely sweet spot.


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## jaketanner (Jan 21, 2019)

I think the one thing with these Adagio libraries that is missing for me, compared to other newer libraries, is the all inclusive "master" patch. The auto switching from articulations based off velocity...not KS. And BTW, side note: my Adagio solo cello, has so many notes that just cut short, it's quite difficult to play. But I was warned that this Adagio series in general, was supposed to have been discontinued, yet 8Dio has left it...albeit, at a discount. Wish they'd revisit them...Anthology does not do these samples justice..especially not Agitato...they have such a nice tone, that somehow is missing in Anthology.


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## gruskada (Jan 29, 2019)

Can anyone help? I can play legato patches just fine on the stand-alone version of Kontakt (v5.8.1), and they sometimes work when I just play a patch with Reaper (5.965), but as soon as I hit record, the legato doesn't work, and I can play multiple notes at once.

I emailed 8dio's support on this - they asked me lots of details, but now they won't respond.


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## EgM (Jan 30, 2019)

gruskada said:


> Can anyone help? I can play legato patches just fine on the stand-alone version of Kontakt (v5.8.1), and they sometimes work when I just play a patch with Reaper (5.965), but as soon as I hit record, the legato doesn't work, and I can play multiple notes at once.
> 
> I emailed 8dio's support on this - they asked me lots of details, but now they won't respond.



They're right, you need to give more details. Attach a Reaper project or post a video.


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## gruskada (Feb 3, 2019)

EgM said:


> They're right, you need to give more details. Attach a Reaper project or post a video.



I had given them all the details they asked for and even suggested that I could send them a video, and got no answer for over a week.

In any case, they eventually replied after prodding them a few times, but now everything just works without me doing anything. So I'm not sure what to do if it starts acting up again, but at least it works for now.


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## jbuhler (Feb 5, 2019)

So in a complete surprise 8dio support got back to me at long last with materials to install the multis for the Adagio violas. I’m not at my rig right now so I can’t attest to whether they work, but it was at least gratifying to see that they did ultimately attempt to address the issue rather than sticking with their original line that the multis were no longer needed. I’ll report back once I’ve had a chance to install.


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## sostenuto (Feb 5, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> So in a complete surprise 8dio support got back to me at long last with materials to install the multis for the Adagio violas. I’m not at my rig right now so I can’t attest to whether they work, but it was at least gratifying to see that they did ultimately attempt to address the issue rather than sticking with their original line that the multis were no longer needed. I’ll report back once I’ve had a chance to install.



Good to know ! This infers each user will need to contact 8DIO Support for this fix ? 
No big deal, just strange versus Update and notification.


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## jbuhler (Feb 5, 2019)

sostenuto said:


> Good to know ! This infers each user will need to contact 8DIO Support for this fix ?
> No big deal, just strange versus Update and notification.


I'm not sure. And it may only apply to Apple users on later systems where the Apple installer originally supplied with the library didn't work. I'll let you know when I've had a chance to install it and see what they gave me.


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## sostenuto (Feb 5, 2019)

Got it. No Installer issues here with Win10 Pro PC, so no worries. Good luck on your end!


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## jbuhler (Feb 6, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> I'm not sure. And it may only apply to Apple users on later systems where the Apple installer originally supplied with the library didn't work. I'll let you know when I've had a chance to install it and see what they gave me.


8dio support sent me a set of graphics and once put in the correct folder the multi works as promised. The switching in the multi doesn't seem especially smooth, at least in the mode selected by velocity, but we'll see. At least it works now...


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## Silence-is-Golden (Feb 6, 2019)

@jbuhler Can you let us know what exactly you received? Then I will ask for that same file as well+ instruction what belongs where


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## Wolf68 (Feb 7, 2019)

my adagio voilas are from 2013. does anyone know if there is an update meanwhile?


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## jbuhler (Feb 7, 2019)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> @jbuhler Can you let us know what exactly you received? Then I will ask for that same file as well+ instruction what belongs where


Yes it was a zip file, that expanded the following:





This folder then gets placed into the Kontakt/pictures folder.


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## Uncle Jesse (Apr 9, 2019)

Wolf68 said:


> btw, to complete my praising, here's a song I wrote 2013 where the Adagio Violas Play the main role:
> 
> https://app.box.com/s/2nf6xg0ow7abc1sv685wgayovur1ah2b



Sounds cool man!


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## Wolf68 (Apr 10, 2019)

Uncle Jesse said:


> Sounds cool man!


thanks a lot, man!


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