# Cubase, Instrument tracks vs Rack + Midi tracks?



## Studio E (Nov 17, 2019)

Any opinions out there? I'm building template sections and I just realized that I can use an instrument track but still assign multiple midi tracks to it. I used to always load instruments in the rack and then assign midi tracks to it, but this way, it seems that I can then import an entire folder track from one project to another if it has instrument tracks instead of rack instruments with midi, unless I am missing something. 

Thoughts?


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## greggybud (Nov 17, 2019)

Here are just a few google links... the first one is most current. Keep in mind Instrument tracks have evolved over time so the best information will be the most recent topics.









Rack Instrument and Instrument Track discussion


Thread split from Deleting a VST instrument in a rack is needlessly hard and arcane. - Cubase - Steinberg Forums I disagree. Workflows for large through composed projects often work out far better with MIDI tracks connected to rack instruments. Workflows for ‘pattern’ or ‘looping’ style...




www.steinberg.net












Difference between Instrument tracks vs racks (Cubase 9)


Instrument tracks vs. Instrument racks … Can someone clearly state what tracks can do that racks can’t? It’s hard to find a reliable source of info about that. I use instrument racks now, and would rather not change if there is no advantage. Thanks -




www.steinberg.net












Request: Let Instrument Tracks connect to Rack Instrument


I use Vienna Ensemble Pro with a very large template. So I use many Rack instruments. It would be really helpful if we could allow Instrument Tracks to connect to Rack Instruments. As things are now, you need to have both a midi track and the audio return. So you need to create twice as many...




www.steinberg.net












Track Instruments vs. Rack Instruments in Cubase 7.5


I have always used Rack Instruments (in the old VST Instruments list) in previous versions of Cubase. I have done this for two reasons: Rack Instruments were the only way to access additional MIDI channels on multi-timbral instruments such as Kontakt. Track Instruments didn’t allow you to keep...




www.steinberg.net












rack instrument vs track instrument


I’m confused on why there are two different options to add VST instruments? I understand that one creates a folder with a midi track but what I don’t get is why this folder is different than the one I can create manually using the track instrument option instead. I also don’t understand why does...




www.steinberg.net












Instrument track vs Rack Instrument?


Hi, I am a little confused with the implementation of the instrument rack in Cubase 8. What I normally always did in previous Cubase versions is load a vst instrument in the rack, and then I was able to create several separate midi tracks and route the midi to a single instrument that is loaded...




www.steinberg.net


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## ThomasS (Nov 18, 2019)

I used racks for years (old habit) but when I started using tracks I liked it better because it speeds up my work flow.

With tracks I save the whole instrument in a TRACK ARCHIVE with the VST and the loaded library, and any other attachment (FX, Groups, Reverb, Color, Score settings like clef's etc, and so on). Everything about the track except midi data (which I delete before saving as a track archive).

I assigned a keystroke to instantly IMPORT and EXPORT track archives, with all the archives in the same folder. When I start a new project I hit ctr-shft-alt-I (Import Track Archive) and I see the folder of all my instruments and combinations and I select whatever I want and it inserts an instrument track with the VST loaded and the exact library into it as well. Say I want CSS strings, I hit CT-ALT-SHFT-I and then CSS strings and it inserts five tracks, named VLN1, VLN2, VLA, VCL, CB, and they are all loaded and ready to go, with panning, reverb, fx, color, group assignment or routing, score settings, expression maps and everything I need, all there in one click and ready to compose.

I have dozens of track archives, some with a full orchestra, some with smaller combinations, some with a selection of the same sounds from different libraries (all guitars, all strings, all brass, etc), some with all the libraries of each manufacturer, etc. and I can decide which parts of any archive I want to insert or not. All my Kontakt and Keyscape and Garritan and Elastik and BIAB and Play and other VST' s (with their libraries pre-loaded) are never more than a keystroke away from being in my project, with the right balance, panning, fx, and everything else, ready to sit in the mix and go to work. Instead of 1) inserting Kontakt as in instrument track, then 2) finding the library, then 3) loading the library, 4) naming the track, 5) panning the track and balancing its volume, 6) adding FX and reverb etc, 7) tweaking the patch as you need it, etc) 8) assigning it to a group 9) giving it a color 10) setting it up in the score editor with clefs, etc) 11, adding expression maps, and so on and so on - I just hit CT-ALT-SHFT-I and pick what I want and I have everything ready to do. My track archives folder is all I need now to get all my sounds quickly. Eleven steps are combined into one.

I also store audio tracks, (for vocals, guitar mic's etc) in the same archive. The track archive can store Instruments, groups, fx tracks, midi and audio.

So that is why I like Instrument tracks because racks can't be saved in the track archive. I believe the 10.50 version has something new about saving templates in this way, which I haven't looked at yet, but this is how I have been working for a few years now.


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## Mishabou (Nov 18, 2019)

ThomasS said:


> I used racks for years (old habit) but when I started using tracks I liked it better because it speeds up my work flow.
> 
> With tracks I save the whole instrument in a TRACK ARCHIVE with the VST and the loaded library, and any other attachment (FX, Groups, Reverb, Color, Score settings like clef's etc, and so on). Everything about the track except midi data (which I delete before saving as a track archive).
> 
> ...



Would Track Presets be a better option than Track Archive ?


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## Studio E (Nov 18, 2019)

ThomasS said:


> With tracks I save the whole instrument in a TRACK ARCHIVE with the VST and the loaded library, and any other attachment (FX, Groups, Reverb, Color, Score settings like clef's etc, and so on). Everything about the track except midi data (which I delete before saving as a track archive).



This is great info and also what I was starting to realize on my own. Thanks so much for the info. I really need to tackle macros as well so that I can implement all of this even faster. Thanks so much!


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## ThomasS (Nov 18, 2019)

Mishabou said:


> Would Track Presets be a better option than Track Archive ?


I don’t use Track Presets, because Track Archives work so well for me. But from what I understand, Track Presets do some of what can be done with Track Archives, but Archives do much more. Someone may be able to correct me if they use Presets, but this is my understanding:


With Track Presets you need to save each individual instrument/track as a separate file and hence you would need 20 keystrokes to load a template of 20 instruments, whereas with Track Archives you can just highlight all 20 tracks of a particular setup and save the whole lot with one keystroke, and load them all with one keystroke anytime later.
Often an instrument track is associated other tracks – it may be sent to a separate Reverb or FX track, or routed to a group, etc. With Track Archives these are all in the same archive, so if you load a VST Violins I patch that, say, is routed to a group called “Strings” and also sends to a Reverb called “Altiverb” or something like that, you save the VST Violin track in the same archive as the group and FX track, and when you load all three you will find the Violins 1 are not only panned and set correctly but also get routed to the strings and the reverb, and the reverb is exactly tweaked to what you want. I have whole orchestra setups with many group tracks (Winds, Brass, Perc, Strings, Synth, Keys, Guitars, etc) and maybe 5 or more different instruments going to each group, and they are all panned and colored and go to the colored groups, and there may be more than one FX or reverb track, and they are all in the same archive and all open at once, populating your whole project with everything you need. I don’t think you can do this with Track Presets,  or at least not in one keystroke.
Sometimes you have several Midi tracks and just one Instrument track that they all play, and you can save both the Midi and Instrument tracks together. Once again, I don’t think Track Presets can handle this.
Perhaps you have a part programmed with one patch but you want to quickly try it out with a few different libraries, so for this purpose you can have a Track Archive with every library of that type of instrument (all strings, all brass, all guitars, all choirs, etc) and if you have a lot of libraries and memory is an issue you can save them all in disabled mode (disable track before saving the archive) so when you load them they all appear in the project but greyed out. You can then paste your midi data into all of them and enable them one by one, and delete the ones you don’t want to use, and keep the one that works best for your purposes. In this way, you can easily preview your whole set of libraries anytime you need something, and you don’t need to fish around searching in Kontakt or trying to combine other VST devices and players because track archives will load all VST’s (not just Kontakt) together side by side. Once again, I don’t think Track Presets can do this.
Finally the TRACK PRESETS dialog is pre-populated with a million things I never use (Halion stuff, etc) and I don't want to have to fish through them all - I just have my own directory of the things I like and use.
Anyway, in general I love Track Archives for quick work, - here are a few more points:

1) When I get a new library and first play around with it, I save it in the archives with the settings I like (CC assignment, volume, balance, panning, FX, Expression Maps, etc) and then when I want that instrument later I load it from the Track Archive (not from the loader in Kontakt or Play, etc)

2) When I finish a project that I like, with a lot of tweaking, I save it first and then delete all the midi data, and PURGE all the libraries, and save every track as an archive, with the project name. Purging before saving archives helps when you load them later (unless you have lots of RAM - I only have 32)

3) For really large collections I often save the archive twice, all enabled and all disabled, if RAM (or loading time) is an issue. The cool thing about large archives is that you can have a coffee or watch TV or make love after hitting load archive, because you don't have to sit around and hit anything else. But if you batch saved everything it doesn't really take that long even to load a full orchestra.

4) For super large collections I leave them all enabled but never intend to load them all into a project. The Import Track Archive has a dialog to let you pick and choose what you want or don't. So I have an "ALL Strings" and "ALL BRASS" and many other ALL archives too, and they are just a better way to find and load anything in your library quickly.



Studio E said:


> I really need to tackle macros as well so that I can implement all of this even faster. Thanks so much!



Studio E is right about macros, and I am starting to use them too, but just learning to make lots of keystroke assignments is a big start.


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## Mishabou (Nov 18, 2019)

ThomasS said:


> I don’t use Track Presets, because Track Archives work so well for me. But from what I understand, Track Presets do some of what can be done with Track Archives, but Archives do much more. Someone may be able to correct me if they use Presets, but this is my understanding:
> 
> 
> With Track Presets you need to save each individual instrument/track as a separate file and hence you would need 20 keystrokes to load a template of 20 instruments, whereas with Track Archives you can just highlight all 20 tracks of a particular setup and save the whole lot with one keystroke, and load them all with one keystroke anytime later.
> ...



I use Track Preset and can accomplish everything mentioned above. As for the last point, you can put your presets in custom folder and only search/access them without seeing any other libraries (Halion, etc)

Correct me if i'm wrong but with Track Archives, one must open a dialog box for import. This was the main reason why i went with TP.


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## ThomasS (Nov 18, 2019)

Mishabou said:


> I use Track Preset and can accomplish everything mentioned above.



Thank you Mishabou for pointing this out! I just tested Track Archives vs Track Preset, and they pretty much do the same thing with a few important differences - so most of what I said in this thread (above) will work with either Archives or Presets.

Chris Selim in this video 

recommends using Archives instead of Presets (he was asked the question) and he said "Track presets are amazing to work with...They're good to save/load presets of an existing track...so you'll need to create a track to apply a track preset. Loading a Track Archive will create the track itself that was archived and not only the presets... " I tested that out and Chris is wrong - you can load a preset without a track first, even into an empty project. (Maybe this is new since he said that?)

Anyway, they are VERY similiar, so here are the differences I find:

1) If you have tracks in folders, archives is far superior. If the folders are closed (not showing the tracks) then neither method works - you get the folder track but it is empty. However, if the folder is open (showing the contents) then if you save it as a Preset you get the tracks back, but not the folder or assignment, so you have to re-do that. But in Archives you get the folder and groupings back, so that is better. Interestingly, in 10.0 I also lost the folders with archives (like presets do now) but I find that in 10.5 Archives has been improved in this regard, but not Presets.

2) Presets seems more cumbersome to load tracks because the dialog makes you put in a search term to find what you want, whereas Archives goes straight to your permanent default directory and you can immediately see and click what you want. Not a big deal but an extra keystroke and some typing is needed with Presets.

3) The import dialogue in Archives is really valuable. With Presets you have no import dialogue (and you say this is an advantage of one less keystroke) but in fact it is a limitation. With Archives you can just hit your keystroke and then "select all" and you get everything with two keystrokes (shorter than searching in Presets) - BUT at that point the import dialogue in Archives has additional options - you can choose to select which tracks you want or don't want, and decide what data you want or don't (if there is data) and various other options. So Archives if more flexible. For me, I have some really big archives that have lots of choices and I just take from them what I want or don't want, but if was in a Preset I would be forced to load all or nothing.

So you can almost do everything in Presets that I described above, but if these differences are important to you than you might find Archives a little better.


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## greggybud (Nov 18, 2019)

ThomasS said:


> So that is why I like Instrument tracks because racks can't be saved in the track archive.



I think this is one of the few remaining differences. On the flip side, I believe save selected/load selected only works with Instrument Racks.


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## Mishabou (Nov 18, 2019)

ThomasS said:


> Thank you Mishabou for pointing this out! I just tested Track Archives vs Track Preset, and they pretty much do the same thing with a few important differences - so most of what I said in this thread (above) will work with either Archives or Presets.
> 
> Chris Selim in this video
> 
> ...




Do you use Track Archive as your template, meaning you start with a blank canvas and import instruments as you go, or you start with a big template with most of your libraries already loaded ?


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## ThomasS (Nov 18, 2019)

I often use Track Archive as a big template, loading a whole orchestra at once, or a more rock oriented template, or one more suited to composing, with tools to aid composition, etc. Similar to how one loads a template in Sibelius or Dorico. I have various templates which are collections of certain types of ensembles. But I also load single instruments from the archive to add an instrument whenever I need it, and sometimes I start with just an instrument or two, and gradually add either single instruments or families only as I need them.

So I guess I do both, depending on the nature of the project. One common workflow, if I am composing, is to start with just a piano (Keyscape) and five staves (midi tracks) which play the same piano. Three are in the treble clef and two in the bass clef and that is enough for me to compose without worrying about sounds. When the composing is finished, I then load a larger template or assemble a collection of the instruments I want to use to realize the five-stave, and copy material from the composing piano staves into various instruments. 

That is a mirror of how I used to work in the old days. Compose with a five-stave sketch at the piano first, and then orchestrate later. If one is not used to this workflow then maybe it will be better to do it some other way. But for me I don't like to worry about sounds too soon, because it interferes with my composition mindset and wastes time playing with different libraries. I like to use my imagination for a while, and for some reason I have gotten used to the blank-canvas sound of the Keyscape piano, which is inspiring to me.

For many years I would compose in Sibelius, because I am notation oriented, and then at some stage I would transfer the midi files into Cubase. But I am sick and tired of the limitations of Sibelius, and Dorico 3 is still not ready to integrate with Cubase yet. So I have recently been getting better at composing with the Score Editor in Cubase, which was a bitch at first but with a lot of study and tweaking I am happy with using the Score Editor as a composer tool.

I know a lot of people compose directly to sounds, and playing around with the sample library inspires them to come up with ideas. That is another way of working which others may find better for them.

But in any case, my main method of loading sounds is to get them from a Track Archive.


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## Mishabou (Nov 18, 2019)

Thanks for your reply.

Btw, you mentioned an important advantage of Track Archives, the ability to choose which tracks to load vs loading the whole thing with Track Preset....Hmmm, might have to reconsider my workflow.


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## matthieuL (Dec 17, 2019)

A question for the users of Instrument Tracks.
*How dou you live with long saving times ??*
Indeed, with big projects (orchestra typically) I assume you have big file sizes (cpr), isn't it ? So you have necesseraly long saving times (at least 10s or more), during which Cubase is totally unusable.
I see many advantages to work with Instrument Tracks (first one is to leave this damn VE Pro), and I really would like to, but I save very often, so long saving times would be a workflow killer to me.

Cubase should implement an optionnal second save mode : save only track data (MIDI, audio, tempo...) for example in a sidecar file, in order to not save each time the whole project (instruments...)


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## jmcecil (Dec 17, 2019)

As Instrument tracks now have nearly every Rack feature it is now more convenient to use Instrument tracks for all of the reasons stated so far. The last niggle that I have is that I name my audio input/output channels. You still can't rename the first channel of an Instrument track ... well you can, but that becomes the name of the instrument. 

For example, lets say I want to use Dimension Horns. If I create an instrument track, the first audio channel will be named Dimension Horns. Or, I could name it Trumpets ... but then the instrument is called Trumpets, even though I'll have various other horns coming on the other audio channels. The rest of the audio channels can be freely named to trombone, tube or whatever. But the first channel is directly tied to the instance name. On a Rack instrument, all audio channels can have unique names, leaving the instance name separate so you can use it to name the instrument library etc.. to be used..

I've finally just accepted this niggle and use instrument tracks now, and just have to do a mental note to remember what is actually routed to the first audio channel.


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