# Spitfire Albion One vs EWQL Cloud Composer X



## dman007 (Aug 31, 2017)

Hi,

Advice and opinions much appreciated...

Spitfire Albion One vs Eastwest Composer Cloud X (Hollywood Orchestra Gold)

Which one and why?

Thank you in advance.


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## John Busby (Aug 31, 2017)

both and layer them together = magic


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## ctsai89 (Aug 31, 2017)

hollywood Orchestra Gold because you'd have all the patches separated. In case you need them. Hollywood strings also has ensemble patches + violin 1 for the right hand for sketching.


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## dman007 (Aug 31, 2017)

....I can only choose one at the moment


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## ctsai89 (Aug 31, 2017)

decision would be very easily made if I were you. 

I have a lot of SPitfire stuff but that's because I didn't try out composers cloud for 30$ a month before I started all the Spitfire stuff. 

If you got one Spitfire product it'll be like a snowball and make you buy what you don't have in Albion ONE you'll likely end up CRAVING to spend up to 2500$ so I'd be careful 

Why not give the composer cloud a try for 30 a month then go from there if you're not satisfied?


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## dman007 (Aug 31, 2017)

A couple of things have stopped me just going for the EWQL. One, read lots of people have problems with the Play engine being sluggish/problematic. Two, a lot of reviews and people seem to criticize the brass. Three, I don't have capacity for Diamond, so it would be Hollywood Orchestra Gold which are 16-bit samples and only on 1 mic position. Any thoughts on any of that?


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## ctsai89 (Aug 31, 2017)

dman007 said:


> A couple of things have stopped me just going for the EWQL. One, read lots of people have problems with the Play engine being sluggish/problematic. Two, a lot of reviews and people seem to criticize the brass. Three, I don't have capacity for Diamond, so it would be Hollywood Orchestra Gold which are 16-bit samples and only on 1 mic position. Any thoughts on any of that?



I heard the opposite about brass. It's one of their strong suit. The play engine should be better than years ago because I heard they updated it. 

It's a relatively dry library with that one position you can still have a lot of flexibility. 

In terms of big problems, spitfire has a plenty such as the drums velocity problem in Albion ONE and volume deficiency/loss in some patches that makes me not as confident when mixing their products. But nothing sojnds as good spitfire


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## John Busby (Aug 31, 2017)

dman007 said:


> Any thoughts on any of that?


one word SSD

EDIT: and i agree with ctsai89 - their brass is fantastic!


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## ctsai89 (Aug 31, 2017)

johnbusbymusic said:


> one word SSD
> 
> EDIT: and i agree with ctsai89 - their brass is fantastic!



That's actually 3 words abbreviated into one just go clarify


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## dman007 (Aug 31, 2017)

I was impressed with Albion I but I know what you mean about limitations pushing you towards buying more products. I'm struggling to decide which way to go.

EWQL 16-bit samples... does that not affect the sound quality & timbre? And headroom? Would the 16-bit Gold samples be genuinely competitive for library work?


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## Chris Hurst (Aug 31, 2017)

If I had my time again - Composer Cloud all the way. Learn to use those East West tools and you'll master the Spitfire stuff easily later.


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## ctsai89 (Aug 31, 2017)

dman007 said:


> I was impressed with Albion I but I know what you mean about limitations pushing you towards buying more products. I'm struggling to decide which way to go.
> 
> EWQL 16-bit samples... does that not affect the sound quality & timbre? And headroom? Would the 16-bit Gold samples be genuinely competitive for library work?



I personally can't hear that difference especially for orchestral music but for electronic music I can sort of hear a difference because they all use the limiter to battle out the loudness war and the bit depth kinda affects the full-ness of the bass, not sure if it was the bit depth or mp3 loss from .wav but I think it's related


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## ctsai89 (Aug 31, 2017)

In my opinion (I usually don't say it this way but if I don't there's going to be a few members that's going to be pissed at me for saying things as if they were facts) the only thing Albion ONE does better than the original 1 was the staccato/spiccato tightness. Albion 1 sounded more realistic plus it didn't have that low drum bug. If you ask me.


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## NoamL (Aug 31, 2017)

Welcome to VIC!



dman007 said:


> A couple of things have stopped me just going for the EWQL. One, read lots of people have problems with the Play engine being sluggish/problematic.



This was certainly true in the past. With the long-promised PLAY 5 update, I don't experience those issues anymore. So, don't be dissuaded by anti-PLAY posts from before 2017 (you may even find I wrote some of them, haha).



> Two, a lot of reviews and people seem to criticize the brass.



I'm surprised, the brass is by far the most perennial of the libraries in my view. I still hear people use it all the time in mockups. It's true that there are several libraries out there that try to be even better than HW Brass, but they're all over $500. Also, even if you get one or more of those libraries at some future time, you'll still find uses for HWB.

If anything, I think the _woodwinds_ are widely acknowledged as the Hollywood series's weak point. Take a close listen to the mockups and see if you're comfortable/happy with the woodwind sound.

The strings also have a very specific character baked into the sound. It's by no means a "neutral" string sound. So have a listen to those mockups too and see if you like the tone.



> Three, I don't have capacity for Diamond, so it would be Hollywood Orchestra Gold which are 16-bit samples and only on 1 mic position. Any thoughts on any of that?



16-bit samples are not really that bad at all 

Having only one mic position is more problematic - ideally you'd want multiple mics to be able to mix specific sounds based on the genre or mood of your music. But this isn't much of a difference from your other library choice, Albion - the nature of Spitfire's recording setup means you don't get a tremendous amount of variability, it's more like "This sounds rather dry and it's in a nice church" vs "This sounds very wet and it's in a nice church." (obviously "nice church" is a huge understatement for the sound of AIR Studios  )

IMO if you are just starting out, EastWest Composer Cloud is offering you a tremendous value. For those of us who already own their best libraries there's not as much value in the cloud. They have a lot of libraries besides the HW series but those have aged rather poorly.

Also, before you buy, check out "Berlin Orchestra Inspire." It's another "starter" style product that's really good.


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## John Busby (Aug 31, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> that low drum bug


i agree, there's a phasing issue in the low perc


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## Illico (Aug 31, 2017)

PLAY5 works very well with a SSD and 16GoRAM (I use EWQL Symphnic Orchestra)


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## ctsai89 (Aug 31, 2017)

johnbusbymusic said:


> i agree, there's a phasing issue in the low perc



not just that.. there's missing velocity layers. There's only 2 velocity as opposed to the original 1 having many more.


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## dman007 (Aug 31, 2017)

The 16-bit & 1 mic thing does bug me a bit. 

Anyone use Play5 in Cubase? Cubase is my main daw, on PC.


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## dman007 (Aug 31, 2017)

Any other alternatives?


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## Consona (Aug 31, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> But nothing sojnds as good spitfire


Have to disagree. Especially when it comes to Albion One which sounds rather artificial and over-processed. And for example Cinematic Strings 2 sound better than any SA strings, IMO.

I'd go for ComposerCloud for sure. So many libraries and instruments and with a good reverb you can make a very fine sounding orchestra even with 1 mic position.


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## Michael Antrum (Aug 31, 2017)

If you get Composer Cloud X I think you get 2 mike positions. Plus QL Spaces convo reverb does would do wonders in any case.

If I started from scratch I would do composer cloud X in an instant. Some of the other libraries RA, Gypsy, Silk - well just watch the videos on You Tube.


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## ctsai89 (Aug 31, 2017)

Consona said:


> Have to disagree. Especially when it comes to Albion One which sounds rather artificial and over-processed. And for example Cinematic Strings 2 sound better than any SA strings, IMO.
> 
> I'd go for ComposerCloud for sure. So many libraries and instruments and with a good reverb you can make a very fine sounding orchestra even with 1 mic position.



haha I agree with you actually. If you saw some of my last posts I've been saying ALbion I sounds better than ONE and for the same reason you listed. However in my opinion SSS's tone is almost unbeatable. I do like CS2 as well.


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## Symfoniq (Aug 31, 2017)

I own all the Albions, and ONE is my least favorite by a few country miles. In your shoes, I'd go with Composer Cloud.


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## JonSolo (Aug 31, 2017)

I have a ton of Spitfire stuff. And I have a ton of EWQL stuff. For months I had CC. EWQL was so good I ended up buying the full products down the line. I love Albion One (but I love Albion I better, uh, more, uh, extra, whatever). But for a tiny investment every month you have access to things Albion One can never do, and there is no price you can put on that..

The weakest link, as some have brought up, with EWQL is Hollywood Woodwinds. To be sure there is SOME issues there. But that is more than made up with Symphonic Orchestra if you use lots of woodwinds in your productions.

And if you compare that to Albion One woodwinds, well, EWQL still wins.

End game- CC by miles.


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## ctsai89 (Aug 31, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> I have a ton of Spitfire stuff. And I have a ton of EWQL stuff. For months I had CC. EWQL was so good I ended up buying the full products down the line. I love Albion One (but I love Albion I better, uh, more, uh, extra, whatever). But for a tiny investment every month you have access to things Albion One can never do, and there is no price you can put on that..
> 
> The weakest link, as some have brought up, with EWQL is Hollywood Woodwinds. To be sure there is SOME issues there. But that is more than made up with Symphonic Orchestra if you use lots of woodwinds in your productions.
> 
> ...



Albion ONE woodwinds is one of the least favorite things. The oboes are just overblown loud in it. Very bad sounding.


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## sostenuto (Aug 31, 2017)

Soooo glad I bought into the SF and Forum _hype_  .....
Purchased Albion One and not so impressed. Nothing major , just meh .....
Last possible choice was E/W CC, and am now a monthly pay-dude. 

No telling what's down the road, _but_ plenty of time before I spend what SF_Albion One
drained from 'piggy' .....  
Lotsa 'bearded' stuff out there now ... 

Pleased with LADD so far, LASS Full 2.5 likely next, but nothin 'til several months sorting time in the CLOUD !!!


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## Fleer (Aug 31, 2017)

Composer Cloud X (with the extra mic, particularly for Woodwinds) and also enjoy all those other amazing EWQL libraries such as Ghostwriter. Plus, that new Hollywood Choir is around the corner, together with at least one other new library (according to their FB page). Then again, that sweet Albion One also includes wonderful eDNA stuff.


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## sostenuto (Aug 31, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Composer Cloud X (with the extra mic, particularly for Woodwinds) and also enjoy all those other amazing EWQL libraries such as Ghostwriter. Plus, that new Hollywood Choir is around the corner, together with at least one other new library (according to their FB page). Then again, that sweet Albion One also includes wonderful eDNA stuff.



OK. Feelin' better. Do like eDNA and already confortable with Earth, Kinematik, Glass & Steel.


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## Fleer (Aug 31, 2017)

True, went back to check on my Albion One and there's just so much in there it's an absolute must-buy for anyone starting out with orchestral compositions. Such a nice sketchbook. So my advice would be to get Albion One outright and pay for Composer Cloud on a monthly basis until you know which EWQL libs you want to keep. Then buy those.


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## sostenuto (Aug 31, 2017)

Fleer said:


> True, went back to check on my Albion One and there's just so much in there it's an absolute must-buy for anyone starting out with orchestral compositions. Such a nice sketchbook. So my advice would be to get Albion One outright and pay for Composer Cloud on a monthly basis until you know which EWQL libs you want to keep. Then buy those.



Good counsel, and must add, that many posts here focused on initial Choir Library content ( NOT available with Spitfire Audio ..yet ). 
So many responses heralded EWQL Hollywood Choir and CC seemed a fine way to 'get acquainted' with EW and learn with Symphonic Choir. 
Once this need sorts, then plenty of time to reconsider.

THX!


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## markleake (Sep 1, 2017)

Consona said:


> Have to disagree. Especially when it comes to Albion One which sounds rather artificial and over-processed. And for example Cinematic Strings 2 sound better than any SA strings, IMO.
> 
> I'd go for ComposerCloud for sure. So many libraries and instruments and with a good reverb you can make a very fine sounding orchestra even with 1 mic position.


+1 to your CS2 comment. While I love the Spitfire Sound, Cinematic Strings 2 just has an unbeatable full sound when you get all the sectionns going that SF strings can't quite match with SSS, for a more modern tone at least.


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## markleake (Sep 1, 2017)

The OP... EWQL Hollywood products are hard to beat. They have a steeper learning curve and will lack the wonderful hall sound you get with Albion One, but you get much more versitility with Composer Cloud.

I'd also recommend having a look at Orchestral Tools Inspire. But really Composer Cloud is a better starting point if you aren't too scared to jump straight in.


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## markleake (Sep 1, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Soooo glad I bought into the SF and Forum _hype_  .....
> Purchased Albion One and not so impressed. Nothing major , just meh .....
> Last possible choice was E/W CC, and am now a monthly pay-dude.
> 
> ...


Don't dismiss Albion One too quickly. I often use it as a general go-to for filling in instrument parts quickly, even though I might have better preferences if I was willing to spend more time. It tends to sneak into many pieces somehow.

And there really are some good patches in it that just work in a mix, regardless of how some of us (including me) complain about them sounding a bit processed by themselves. The various string shorts are just excellent. The strings longs are good for doubling/blending or for pads. The legatos on all instruments are excellent. The low strings and brass are very useful and I find hard to reproduce so nicely elsewhere. I like the muted string longs also.

Don't forget Albion One also comes with quite a few original Albion 1 patches that still sound fantastic!


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## sostenuto (Sep 1, 2017)

markleake said:


> Don't dismiss Albion One too quickly. I often use it as a general go-to for filling in instrument parts quickly, even though I might have better preferences if I was willing to spend more time. It tends to sneak into many pieces somehow.
> 
> And there really are some good patches in it that just work in a mix, regardless of how some of us (including me) complain about them sounding a bit processed by themselves. The various string shorts are just excellent. The strings longs are good for doubling/blending or for pads. The legatos on all instruments are excellent. The low strings and brass are very useful and I find hard to reproduce so nicely elsewhere. I like the muted string longs also.
> 
> Don't forget Albion One also comes with quite a few original Albion 1 patches that still sound fantastic!



Appreciate your extra detail as Albion One surely has strong assets not even explored yet ... (by me). Regrets, for allowing random critiques to 'poison the well' 

Actually, overreaction stems from imminent desires to add more Albions given their salient content despite some _age_.

Do not think I can get CS2 anymore, so present dilemma is CSS or perhaps LASS Lite2 + LASS FC2 Bundle ?? 
Divisi has become a detail still to be sorted.

THX!


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## dman007 (Sep 1, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> If you get Composer Cloud X I think you get 2 mike positions. Plus QL Spaces convo reverb does would do wonders in any case.
> 
> If I started from scratch I would do composer cloud X in an instant. Some of the other libraries RA, Gypsy, Silk - well just watch the videos on You Tube.



In Cloud X, it's just 1 mic position and samples are 16-bit.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 1, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Do not think I can get CS2 anymore...



Of course you can get CS2 still. It's a great string library - it has more 'air' than my wife's hair drier, and you also get a discount on Cinematic Studio Strings if you decide to get that later too. There sure are a lot of great choices out there.

http://www.cinematicstrings.com

Also agree on Albion I vs One. I tend to use Albion I was more than Albion One. Particularly for strings. If only you could still buy Albion I .....


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## dman007 (Sep 1, 2017)

You can get CS2 still. CS2 vs CSS - which would you get?


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 1, 2017)

dman007 said:


> In Cloud X, it's just 1 mic position and samples are 16-bit.








Have I misunderstood this then ? I've just grabbed it from their website a few minutes ago.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 1, 2017)

dman007 said:


> You can get CS2 still. CS2 vs CSS - which would you get?



I cannot help there. Most people on the forum wax lyrically about CSS, but I have not felt the need to 'upgrade' to CSS just yet. 

I say 'upgrade' but that's not really the correct term - the two are apparently recorded in different halls and completely different libraries. CSS has a lot of fans here. I got CS2 during a Black Friday sale and it has been one of my better buys.


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## dman007 (Sep 1, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> Have I misunderstood this then ? I've just grabbed it from their website a few minutes ago.



I did ask them but they said it's 1 mic position, so not sure! :-\


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## JW (Sep 1, 2017)

Perhaps take a look at Orchestral Tools library, Inspire. 
http://www.orchestraltools.com/libraries/berlin_orchestra_inspire.php


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## Consona (Sep 1, 2017)

The thing is, with CC you can just dive into the orchestral composing world, with Albion One, you cannot. There are no instrument sections, i.e. 1st and 2nd violins, violas, celli and basees, no separate horns, trombones, etc., etc., and a lot of important patches are in octaves. This alone would direct me straight to the Composer Cloud.

Of course only if you want to compose something Goldsmith/Williams/Wagner/Dvorak-like. You just need all the individual sections to properly develop and orchestrate the piece, if you only want to score modern action films and trailers, you don't need anything other than Albion One.


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## dman007 (Sep 1, 2017)

Yes, with Cloud X, you now get 2 mic positions. Anything 'Gold' includes the close mic. Only 1 mic pos on Cloud (the month by month one).


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## dman007 (Sep 1, 2017)

Intended use will be for films, underscores, cues, video games and trailers.


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## ctsai89 (Sep 1, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> I cannot help there. Most people on the forum wax lyrically about CSS, but I have not felt the need to 'upgrade' to CSS just yet.
> 
> I say 'upgrade' but that's not really the correct term - the two are apparently recorded in different halls and completely different libraries. CSS has a lot of fans here. I got CS2 during a Black Friday sale and it has been one of my better buys.



Doesn't cs2 have the high and low position option and CSS is just pretty basic with more complicate legato system?


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 1, 2017)

CS2 does indeed have the high and low position - but I don't have CSS so I cannot comment on the legato system. I have heard that there are some delay issues with the legato - but that's hearsay - I have no direct knowledge of it. I also understand that CS2 is 'bigger' than CSS in a sound sense.


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## sostenuto (Sep 1, 2017)

Ha1 Cinematic Strings is getting life of its own here.  
CS2 now getting serious attention as was previously pointed to LASS Lite2 + LASS FC Bundle. 
Are these (2) comparable competition ? and how does LASS Divisi enter in ?


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## JonSolo (Sep 1, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Ha1 Cinematic Strings is getting life of its own here.
> CS2 now getting serious attention as was previously pointed to LASS Lite2 + LASS FC Bundle.
> Are these (2) comparable competition ? and how does LASS Divisi enter in ?


Thread hijack. You might want to start a new thread to get specific answers like this. This thread is for discussion of Albion One vs EWQL CC. It just helps us keep better track of what library you are currently interested in...


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 1, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> Thread hijack. You might want to start a new thread to get specific answers like this. This thread is for discussion of Albion One vs EWQL CC. It just helps us keep better track of what library you are currently interested in...


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## sostenuto (Sep 1, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


>



OK .... Topic is akin to: ' Cheese Platter _or_ Monster Buffet Table ? ' .....

Kinda lends itself to drifting off a bit .....


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## pobsky (Sep 1, 2017)

i just thought what the heck and subscribed to composer cloud after not having the samples i want time and time again, i did have Albion which is great but often spent so much time looking for cheap or free stuff that albion doesnt quite do ! i think i made the right decision so far with the vast sounds i now have access too !


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## markleake (Sep 1, 2017)

Consona said:


> The thing is, with CC you can just dive into the orchestral composing world, with Albion One, you cannot. There are no instrument sections, i.e. 1st and 2nd violins, violas, celli and basees, no separate horns, trombones, etc., etc., and a lot of important patches are in octaves. This alone would direct me straight to the Composer Cloud.


+1 Composer Cloud is going to do a huge amount more for you that Albion One. I'd always recommend Composer Cloud as the best starting place, and I think most of us here would take that same stance. Their Hollywood series may take a bit of time to learn, but it is great quality stuff.

Easily the second most recommended option here is Albion One, and now OT Inspire. If you can't stomach Play, then either of these two are the second best option.


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## Quasar (Sep 1, 2017)

Albion 1 legacy. Get a time machine if you have to.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 2, 2017)

As Albion 1 isn't sold anymore, and Spitfire do not allow resale of a library - that's going to be something of a tall order.....


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## Replicant (Sep 2, 2017)

Composer Cloud or death.


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## ctsai89 (Sep 2, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> As Albion 1 isn't sold anymore, and Spitfire do not allow resale of a library - that's going to be something of a tall order.....



my theory is that Albion 1 had the stuff that was able to do as well as SSW/SSS/Spitfire Percussion could so they had to down grade edit it to ONE, and stopped selling 1, in order to create the need for anyone who wasn't introduced to Spitfire before 2016 to buy other more organic sounding libraries. Albion ONE pretty much is just about only as good as a gateway drug (actually pretty good and good enough) to the everything else spitfire.


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## sostenuto (Sep 2, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> my theory is that Albion 1 had the stuff that was able to do as well as SSW/SSS/Spitfire Percussion could so they had to down grade edit it to ONE, and stopped selling 1, in order to create the need for anyone who wasn't introduced to Spitfire before 2016 to buy other more organic sounding libraries. Albion ONE pretty much is just about only as good as a gateway drug (actually pretty good and good enough) to the everything else spitfire.



No clue, as only _recent Albion One buyer_. Still new to overall content, and to much orchestral/cinematic/epic/trailer in general ... so have not commented seriously. 

Now, not so self-deprecating for some 'meh' reactions.
So many have extolled great virtues and have little choice now but to accept and use. 

Does this suggest that subsequent Albions fall in much the same pattern ?? 

Hate feeling like 'SFA pot-smoker' needing to move 'up' to more serious stuff !! 
Perhaps good to have not experienced _mainstream_ '*1*'_ SFA early-on ....


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 2, 2017)

Albion I is now vintage gear, and therefore sounds better than the modern stuff by it's very nature....


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## markleake (Sep 2, 2017)

There is certainly a delicacy and rawness to the sound in 1 that you don't get in One, in the strings at least.


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## Quasar (Sep 2, 2017)

markleake said:


> There is certainly a delicacy and rawness to the sound in 1 that you don't get in One, in the strings at least.


I don't have ONE to compare 1 to, and have only listened to the current offering in demos. But "delicacy and rawness" is how I would characterize the original 1 too. Just a fantastic library, and am grateful to have gotten it when it went on its Spitfire-sponsored euthanasia sale.


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## sostenuto (Sep 2, 2017)

Quasar said:


> I don't have ONE to compare 1 to, and have only listened to the current offering in demos. But "delicacy and rawness" is how I would characterize the original 1 too. Just a fantastic library, and am grateful to have gotten it when it went on its Spitfire-sponsored euthanasia sale.



*Rub it in, rub it in ..... *


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## ctsai89 (Sep 3, 2017)

I was so retarded and got the EWQL symphonic Orchestra isntead of the Albion I back in 2013, I was ignorant enough to not know that it existed #dumb.

But if it's EWQL hollywood orchestra then it's a whole different story.


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## Consona (Sep 3, 2017)

The only thing that bothers me is you get only Close mics with CC X and Gold mics with CC, so you still don't get main HW Strings mics.


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## Chris Hurst (Sep 3, 2017)

Consona said:


> The only thing that bothers me is you get only Close mics with CC X and Gold mics with CC, so you still don't get main HW Strings mics.



CC X gives you the main mics (so same as CC) PLUS the close mics, so you get two mic positions with CC X.


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## MarcelM (Sep 3, 2017)

Chris Hurst said:


> CC X gives you the main mics (so same as CC) PLUS the close mics, so you get two mic positions with CC X.



are you sure about this? when i had composer cloud the hollywood strings were mid mic position and not main mic like hollywood brass.


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## Chris Hurst (Sep 3, 2017)

Heroix said:


> are you sure about this? when i had composer cloud the hollywood strings were mid mic position and not main mic like hollywood brass.



Fair point - it is mid mic position, but my point was that you don't just get the close mic with CC X (which is how I took the original post) - you get the Gold version of the instruments plus the close mic, so two mic positions on CC X, rather than the one with standard CC.

Thanks for pointing out it is Mid position only though, to avoid any confusion for anyone!


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## Consona (Sep 3, 2017)

Yea, I worded it badly.


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