# Are Paid Synths Worth It?



## Gingham Jones

I just recently entered the vast, wonderful world of synths and have found that there are an insane amount of free synths that sound... well, like synths! Is there any reason to buy any? I mean, Modulair is a full modular synth (though I haven't played around with it much) for free and there are plenty of hardware emulations too. Some of these free ones have okay-to-horrid interfaces, like Synth1, so I could see that being an advantage to paid synths but are there any sound quality or functional benefits?


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## MisteR

Yes. But if you’re happy with the free ones stick with those until you’re not. One issue of computer music magazine ($5 digital version) gets you a boatload of free versions of paid synths (they call it “the vault”). Check out the u-he synths.


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## el-bo

These days it's getting harder to make the case for spending any money on synths. Unless you're looking for a near-as-currently-possible emulation of a synth you owned a few decades back, or are tempted by the hybrid behemoths e.g Omnisphere, Falcon etc. then you'll find much of what you need between Vital, Surge and u-he's freebies.

There's always the opportunity to upgrade your stash at a point when you more understand what you need, and more importantly what you don't. And if you ever find yourself in the world of Komplete, you'll have more than you ever need, at an incredible price


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## doctoremmet

Good answers already. Honestly, if you’re “merely” looking for great sounding synth patches, free synths and low-cost paid ones get you 100% of the way there! Which is awesome.

- AAS Player + free Swatches soundpack = >500 marvelous sounding patches

- free Meldaproduction MSoundFactory Player = great sampled piano patch + 100s of creative modern sounding “non-EDM” patches

- free Vital synth = Serum level wavetable quality with dozens of sounds

- Cherry Audio standalone synths are $29 and on sale even a tenner less. At the rate they are currently releasing them it is quicky becoming a VERY capable and ridiculously affordable alternative for Arturia’s V Collection - so for hardware emulations it is also a golden era

True synth heads like myself like to tinker under the hood AND create their own sounds, preferably using different synth engines. In that case purchasing a modern take on a Buchla synth (Newfangled Audio Generate) *) for $49 on sale is almost the same thing as “free”. 

*) you want to find out what that sounds like? Guess what... the monophonic little brother Pendulate is... free (and it is great!)

So I have to say... if you want a varied set of top tier synths and don’t want to spend (or if you can’t for that matter)... the free options are terrific and soundwise noone would ever be able to tell that “only” free synths were used on a track.

Edit: typo


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## Gingham Jones

That's the thing @MisteR is that I have a bunch of free ones and don't feel like I need to check out anything else and if there's no large increase in sound quality, which I can't imagine since the free ones sound great to me, then what's the point? 

@el-bo I ended up with IK's Syntronik and I have the ones that come with the paid version of Kontakt. I don't like Syntronik at all. It's very frustrating trying to find presets and when I load one it doesn't look like anything changes on the synth so it seems like you have to use the presets to get sounds. Maybe I'm off the mark there, I was a complete ignorant fool the last time I played around with it but even so, the free ones are simpler, navigate better, and sound great.


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## doctoremmet

Gingham Jones said:


> That's the thing @MisteR is that I have a bunch of free ones and don't feel like I need to check out anything else and if there's no large increase in sound quality, which I can't imagine since the free ones sound great to me, then what's the point?
> 
> @el-bo I ended up with IK's Syntronik and I have the ones that come with the paid version of Kontakt. I don't like Syntronik at all. It's very frustrating trying to find presets and when I load one it doesn't look like anything changes on the synth so it seems like you have to use the presets to get sounds. Maybe I'm off the mark there, I was a complete ignorant fool the last time I played around with it but even so, the free ones are simpler, navigate better, and sound great.


Syntronik isn’t a true synth either, as it is largely based on samples of the real synths with some generic filters and ADSRs thrown in. And a bit of a clunky interface.

“True” synths are way more lean and mean. I bet you will have way more fun with U-he Podolski, or Vital!


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## doctoremmet

Gingham Jones said:


> no large increase in sound quality, which I can't imagine since the free ones sound great to me, then what's the point?


- there is NO difference in sound quality
- if it sounds great it IS great
- so, there is NO point



And if you’re me you can’t wait to buy your next synth (Tracktion F ‘Em) and spend another $99. Programming different and new synths is my hobby.


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## Tag

doctoremmet said:


> Meldaproduction MSoundPlayer


It's _MSoundFactory,_ by the way. (-;


Regarding the topic: I would agree: if you can achieve the sound you are looking for with free synths, just go for it! I guess paid plugins might have a bit faster and maybe more stable (maybe it's just a personal feeling and thus unfair to say!) development. If I remember correct at least back then the free plugins might be more CPU intense as well. But I did not use free synths for many years. Things probably have changed already. I mean ... it's incredible what you can get for free these days! (=




Gingham Jones said:


> and don't feel like I need to check out anything else


Regarding this, another maybe important thing might be: workflow! Maybe you get to some point where you understand things deeper and get yourself to a point where you feel that you could do things better in another plugin or so. So this might also be a point to experience. But as long as you can get the things done in the tools you already have and use: just do it! (-;


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## doctoremmet

Tag said:


> It's _MSoundFactory,_ by the way. (-;


Of course. It was a typo

I meant to say MSoundFactory PLAYER


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## doctoremmet

Stability and CPU strain aren’t an issue with Vital, Surge, Pendulate etc.


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## Tag

doctoremmet said:


> I meant to say MSoundFactory PLAYER


Fair enough, haha! Sometimes I forget that there is the player version as well, hehe.


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## doctoremmet

Tag said:


> Fair enough, haha! Sometimes I forget that there is the player version as well, hehe.


I am a Melda fan and have been using MSF since I purchased it a few months ago. José Herring’s enthusiasm for both it and MPowerSynth was contagious 

Loving it. It is quite the capable multi-layered sampler too.


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## Tag

I should not comment this, since I am probably a biased factory content creator for MSF, hehe. d-:


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## el-bo

Tag said:


> Things probably have changed already.


They have


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## doctoremmet

Tag said:


> I should not comment this, since I am probably a biased factory content creator for MSF, hehe. d-:


Ah... well... here’s a suggestion. If I open an MSF thread later today, would you care to drop some war stories and maybe a patch or two or maybe tips & tricks?


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## Tag

doctoremmet said:


> Ah... well... here’s a suggestion. If I open an MSF thread later today, would you care to drop some war stories and maybe a patch or two or maybe tips & tricks?


Just send me a PM with the link and I might jump in, if I can be of help then. (-;


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## doctoremmet

Will do some time over the course of the next couple of days!


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## el-bo

Also, if you're not hugely into programming sounds, like me, then perhaps look into sound-design from an effects point-of-view. Any bland, pedestrian sound can become a huge beast with saturation and distortion. Add in tape fx, delays, reverbs, cutting huge swathes of eq, adding compression etc. And you can create fantastic sounds. All of these effects can be had for free, also


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## José Herring

The free ones are awesome and have been for nearly 2 decades. Synth One is a great synth. Oatmeal is a great synth and so is Crystal. Those happen to be my first foray into virtual synthesis. 

I then moved on to included synths in DAWS. Reason's Thor, then Cubase Retrologue, the later Padshop. These are killer synths to this day and Reason has some little hidden gems that still rock even though some are nearly 20 years old now. Subtractor, ect...

Now you have Surge and Vital which are great freebees as well. Vital has paid versions of course but the free version made me guilty enough for using it that I ended up just buying the full package because I kept on getting visions of the guy slaving away for years eating peanut butter while I'm enjoy his free synth (also me eating peanut butter sandwiches but hey, I had 80 bucks so might as well share the wealth ).

In the end I use a combination of free synths, low priced synths, and mid to high priced stuff. 

Each synth has kind of it's own unique thing to it and sometimes things will work with one that won't work another easily. I was working on a bass line and it wasn't working with The Legend but worked like gang busters with Monark. Interesting I thought. 

So, use the free ones. Then get a few paid ones. Whatever gets the job done. 

I only pay for synths that have something that make them really stand out. PA Knifonium is a rare gem that you won't get for free. Zebra 2 is a killer, if you only had that you'd be doing great. Vital is a must have in any form. 

But, we are literally 10 more years away where free shit will out shine paid stuff. They keep on improving the old free synths and many of the paid ones either get dropped or the developer moves on to other paid stuff. The gap has narrowed so much since the days of Oatmeal and Synth One. My jaw dropped when I downloaded the free version of Vital. It's every bit as good as any paid synth I've ever used. 

But other than that many free synths are geared towards guys that maybe don't have the best of computers. So many sound underpowered and thin to my ears. Even a lot of included synths in DAWS sometimes suffer from this. So soon I was reaching for new synths that had some power to them. Like Knifonium, Obesession, The Legend, MPowersynth, MSoundFactory and many other.


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## el-bo

Gingham Jones said:


> @el-bo I ended up with IK's Syntronik and I have the ones that come with the paid version of Kontakt. I don't like Syntronik at all. It's very frustrating trying to find presets and when I load one it doesn't look like anything changes on the synth so it seems like you have to use the presets to get sounds. Maybe I'm off the mark there, I was a complete ignorant fool the last time I played around with it but even so, the free ones are simpler, navigate better, and sound great.


Don't really know Syntronik, so can't really offer any advice. Definitely some good stuff to be had for free, in Kontakt. Are you only looking for synths?


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## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> I am a Melda fan and have been using MSF since I purchased it a few months ago. José Herring’s enthusiasm for both it and MPowerSynth was contagious
> 
> Loving it. It is quite the capable multi-layered sampler too.


Me? You got MSoundFactory before I did and you know it better than I do. I keep coming to you for advice. 

I finally did get to sit down with it. It's an amazing thing.


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## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> Me? You got MSoundFactory before I did and you know it better than I do. I keep coming to you for advice.
> 
> I finally did get to sit down with it. It's an amazing thing.


To be correct: your contemplations about (getting) MSF made me get it. You also sent me a WAV once of you creating an arpeggio in MPowerSynth. So I totally hold you accountable hahaha


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## doctoremmet

Glad to have encountered @Tag on here today. I feel like we hadn’t met before? Anyway... another MSF afficionado is always welcome


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## doctoremmet

Gingham Jones said:


> Modulair is a full modular synth (though I haven't played around with it much) for free and there are plenty of hardware emulations too.


To add to the free stash:

If modular is your fancy... Cherry Audio’s
selection of free modules for their flagship Voltage Modular could keep you busy for a lifetime. If one was to purchase the equivalent of that bundle in Eurocrack hardware, you’d have to spend considerable amounts of money.


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## TomislavEP

An interesting question. Indeed, there are some quite serious free virtual synths out there that can often match the commercial ones, at least when it comes to the possibilities for creating the sounds from scratch, despite certain limitations. The ones with the biggest potential I came across are likely "Tyrell N6", "Zebrallete", and "Podolski" from u-he. You can even find free presets from them, including from The Unfinished. I've also heard a lot of good stuff about Vital and Surge though I haven't actually tried them yet.

Personally, I think that one of the big selling points of commercial virtual synths is the quality and usability of presets that come with them. But then again, it's also a relative thing. As an owner of Komplete, I have quite a firepower on hand when it comes to synths. However, I must say that I frequently find the included presets a bit lackluster. Also, they're often geared toward EDM and other more aggressive styles rather than toward more subtle ones that I'm usually into.


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## el-bo

TomislavEP said:


> As an owner of Komplete, I have quite a firepower on hand when it comes to synths. However, I must say that I frequently find the included presets a bit lackluster. Also, they're often geared toward EDM and other more aggressive styles rather than toward more subtle ones that I'm usually into.


You can avoid the EDM stylings completely with FM8 and Absynth. And even though Massive (OG) has had it’s reputation forever tied to screeching Dubste tones, there are many other sides to it buried within those preset banks


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## el-bo

doctoremmet said:


> To add to the free stash:
> 
> If modular is your fancy... Cherry Audio’s
> selection of free modules for their flagship Voltage Modular could keep you busy for a lifetime. If one was to purchase the equivalent of that bundle in Eurocrack hardware, you’d have to spend considerable amounts of money.


Don’t forget VCV Rack.


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## doctoremmet

el-bo said:


> Don’t forget VCV Rack.


I won’t. Highly recommended. Some gems in there for sure


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## el-bo

doctoremmet said:


> AAS Player + free Swatches soundpack = >500 marvelous sounding patches.


This! Even better - Every Xmas (Well, for the last few years), they give away a free soundset (User’s choice). So it’s well worth getting to know the free sounds, to make the choice easier.


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## doctoremmet

el-bo said:


> This! Even better - Every Xmas (Well, for the last few years), they give away a free soundset (User’s choice). So it’s well worth getting to know the free sounds, to make the choice easier.


And they have some of the best sounding synth engines I know. Free for the win. I don’t even know why I spent thousands on paid ones....


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## el-bo

doctoremmet said:


> And they have some of the best sounding synth engines I know. Free for the win. I don’t even know why I spent thousands on paid ones....


You could perhaps get all ‘Kondo’ about the situation: Only keep the ones that bring you joy


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## el-bo

Oh...and the ones that you can’t sell


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## TomislavEP

el-bo said:


> You can avoid the EDM stylings completely with FM8 and Absynth. And even though Massive (OG) has had it’s reputation forever tied to screeching Dubste tones, there are many other sides to it buried within those preset banks


Thanks for the suggestion; I'll try that in the future. To tell the truth, I primarily use Kontakt, Reaktor, Guitar Rig, and Massive X from the package. I've never really explored these legacy Komplete synths more deeply.


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## doctoremmet

TomislavEP said:


> I've never really explored these legacy Komplete synths more deeply.


One word: Absynth ❤️


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## MartinH.

I've often heard people who bought omnisphere say that they wished they had bought this first, as it made so many cheaper past purchases obsolete for them. Rarely did one regret the purchase of omnisphere. I don't have it myself though.


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## AudioLoco

You can do probably everything with freeware synths... but... 
Zebra2HZ paid for itself several times already. That thing sounds very very close to analog stuff and has an infinite tweakability. Love it. Would buy it again and again and again...


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## vitocorleone123

You can make music with anything. If you can make music you like with free stuff, and free stuff keeps you engaged and happy, go for it!

You'd be ignoring some absolutely incredible synths and effects that cost money, but, again, if you're good with free then stay with the free. I, personally, was not able to do that for all time. This is just a hobby I've been fortunate to be able to invest in, but I love synths - have more paid synths than time to learn them (and a couple free ones). I'm spending more of my time on paid hardware synths as I'd never had any up until 3 years ago. In other words, I started off using free stuff a long time ago and have since moved to collecting many thousands of $ in hardware and software synths and effects. Am I happier for it? Yes. Do I plan to ever make a single dollar from it? No - I have a busy career in tech and a family life.

There's a lot of amazing synths that go on sale into the $30 - $100 range. And I'd at least support the developer of Vital by paying $25 rather than using it for free. You can also use a free DAW like Waveform Free. And find free effects, or things sometimes are given away that either used to be charged for or are free for a short time before they cost money.

Side note: I've pretty much tabled Omnisphere until a v3 comes out, at which point I'll either have to be wowed to upgrade or I'll sell it.


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## SupremeFist

TomislavEP said:


> An interesting question. Indeed, there are some quite serious free virtual synths out there that can often match the commercial ones, at least when it comes to the possibilities for creating the sounds from scratch, despite certain limitations. The ones with the biggest potential I came across are likely "Tyrell N6", "Zebrallete", and "Podolski" from u-he. You can even find free presets from them, including from The Unfinished. I've also heard a lot of good stuff about Vital and Surge though I haven't actually tried them yet.
> 
> Personally, I think that one of the big selling points of commercial virtual synths is the quality and usability of presets that come with them. But then again, it's also a relative thing. As an owner of Komplete, I have quite a firepower on hand when it comes to synths. However, I must say that I frequently find the included presets a bit lackluster. Also, they're often geared toward EDM and other more aggressive styles rather than toward more subtle ones that I'm usually into.


Tyrell for sure is absolutely wonderful. Only problem is, it led to me buying Diva, Repro, and Zebra.


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## shadowsoflight

As a few others have already said, if you are happy with free stuff then don't feel pressured to buy any of the paid stuff. Make music and sounds that you are happy with, first and foremost. One day you might hit a limitation that cannot be overcome with free software (getting less and less likely!), but it's best to discover that for yourself, in your own time. That way you will have the skills and experience to properly choose, and then make the most of, the tool you are buying.

I'm at a point in my life where I only have time to either write music or tinker with sounds, but realistically not both - I've chosen to focus on composing, hence I have started refreshing my toolkit with some paid stuff. But if you have time, interest and energy to tinker with sounds, you can absolutely do great work with free or stock DAW tools.


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## Gingham Jones

The stability argument makes sense. I recently ran into an issue with Synth1 where I think I'll have to reinstall it. And I could also see getting paid ones for added variety. I'm not actually looking to buy any at the moment because I'm baffled already by what the free ones can do but I was curious about whether there was some "next leap" into the paid realm that isn't accessible with free synths. It seemed unlikely since there are many hardware-emulations (Synth1, Cheeze Machine, OB-XD, etc), unique, and even a modular synth available for free.


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## jcrosby

As far as the initial post.... They are AFAIC. Stability isn't the only thing that can make all the difference, development dollars means new and/or improved features. Granted not all synths get big changes, but all of my favorite ones have. They continues to get new features, while old ones get refined and generally better as development evolves... Omnisphere for example just keeps evolving and getting better and better as the years roll on. It's been worth every penny sunk I've into it, and then some...

That isn't to say amazing things can't be done with freeware. But freeware has no guaranteed shelf life. An indy developer doesn't have the same kind of resources that a development team does, and freeware by commercial developers eventually becomes cost ineffective unless the freeware is specifically intended as a marketing asset...


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## el-bo

Gingham Jones said:


> The stability argument makes sense. I recently ran into an issue with Synth1 where I think I'll have to reinstall it. And I could also see getting paid ones for added variety. I'm not actually looking to buy any at the moment because I'm baffled already by what the free ones can do but I was curious about whether there was some "next leap" into the paid realm that isn't accessible with free synths. It seemed unlikely since there are many hardware-emulations (Synth1, Cheeze Machine, OB-XD, etc), unique, and even a modular synth available for free.


I urge you to check out Vital and Surge. Surge used to be a highly-regarded paid synth, which is now open-source and being developed by a supposedly solid group of individuals. Sounds great!

Also, back to my recommendation of fx. Yesterday was playing a great Repro 5 patch and was curious how it sounded with the fx bypassed. The result was really nothing special or unique. That patch leveraged all five of Repro’s effects to make it standout. And it’s effects where most free synths are at a loss.


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## wst3

There are some really great free, or nearly free plugins, and when starting out it makes tremendous sense to investigate them. If they sound good to your ears, they are good, by definition.

I no longer use very many free plugins, and the ones I am using are things I found a while back. It probably makes me sound like snob or an idiot, which is fine, I have my reasons:

I just don't have the time to go digging through hundreds of plugins searching for something cool. If it is really cool it will come to the attention of a bunch of folks, and it will be talked about, and I'll find out about it. It's not (entirely) that I am lazy, I just have other uses for my time.
I have too darned many plugins now. I have successfully thinned my list of software synthesizers, and have no plans to look for more at the moment. If I can't make a sound with the tools at hand I need to go back to the woodshed (and I almost always have to go there).
I need stability - not in terms of code but in terms of support. Granted there is no guarantee that a paid plugin will be supported long term, but it is a better bet than free stuff. You can make the argument that open source means they will always be supported, but history suggests otherwise. When I need to revisit a project I want to be able to do so with minimal hassle (it'll never be zero).
I like to support developers. Simple enough, they make my music making life better.
None of these are reasons why YOU should not use free plugins. They are the reasons I no longer look for new free stuff, and why I've weaned myself off older free stuff I collected.


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## InLight-Tone

Maybe buy just Reaktor and be done with it...


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## Trash Panda

@OP Are you wanting to design your own sounds or more preset surfing?


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## Gingham Jones

Again, I'm not looking for recommendations, I'm well occupied with what I've found already. That's why I'm asking if paid synths are worth it because I don't see any further need possible (easy to say in the ignorance of the possibilities of course). I agree with @wst3 in that I have too many plugins as it is and I'd just as gladly donate to the folks who make the free synths I end up using as opposed to paying for a new one if there's no benefit. It sounds like the benefit lies in product support mostly or in more complicated synths which would certainly be something to tackle in the future rather than now! I guess I have a hard time believing that something that seems "to good to be true" really is true and that "nothing is free" is false. Yet here we are in 2021 and some amazing people have devoted time over the years to developing quality things for fun, or as a learning project, or whatever reason these free things exist.


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## TomislavEP

jcrosby said:


> freeware by commercial developers eventually becomes cost ineffective unless the freeware is specifically intended as a marketing asset...


There is truth to this, but there are also several constantly growing series of quality freeware such as Spitfire Labs, Klang, Sine Factory, as well as Pianobook to some degree. Taking into account their quality and usability, I'm looking upon these as an expansion of a library of commercial titles rather than just an incentive or demo, like the traditional freebies. But there is no doubt that there is also a commercial message in the background of the mentioned series.



> An indy developer doesn't have the same kind of resources that a development team does


Definitely. Despite the incredible quality of freeware these days, there are still certain categories of VI's and libraries where you just cannot find a free alternative that can rival the commercial ones due to the very reason. The most obvious example is deeply sampled orchestral instruments.


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## el-bo

...


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## bill5

Gingham Jones said:


> That's the thing @MisteR is that I have a bunch of free ones and don't feel like I need to check out anything else and if there's no large increase in sound quality, which I can't imagine since the free ones sound great to me, then what's the point?


There is none, unless you just want to try something new out of curiousity...but it'll cost you and you likely won't find anything "extra" that can be done or done any better than you could have done with free ones in most if not all cases. It's far more about the skill and knowledge of how to use them. 

"You get what you pay for" is pretty much meaningless when it comes to plugins.




TomislavEP said:


> Personally, I think that one of the big selling points of commercial virtual synths is the quality and usability of presets that come with them.


Disagree; free ones have great presets too. Of course it all varies with the specific synths you're talking about, but paid ones do not inherently have any advantage over free ones, presets included.




shadowsoflight said:


> One day you might hit a limitation that cannot be overcome with free software (getting less and less likely!)


I'd say borderline impossible these days  




Gingham Jones said:


> The stability argument makes sense.


Not really. At least in my experience, and I've used many, many free and paid synths...never noticed any stability advantage that the paid ones had. I doubt that's due to an incredible stretch of luck. 




jcrosby said:


> freeware has no guaranteed shelf life. An indy developer doesn't have the same kind of resources that a development team does, and freeware by commercial developers eventually becomes cost ineffective unless the freeware is specifically intended as a marketing asset...


Keep in mind we're talking about free synth plugins (and somewhat plugins overall), not all freeware, and while there may be no "guarantees," freebies have no less inherent shelf life than paid ones (Synth1 came out in 2002; I'd call that one hell of a shelf life!). And free plugins CAN'T become cost ineffective, because they're free. Sure, newer, flashier things might come along, but if it's great now, it will be great 10 yrs from now. Plugins have gotten so good that we're hitting a point of diminishing returns, free or paid.


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## Fidelity

Gingham Jones said:


> I guess I have a hard time believing that something that seems "to good to be true" really is true and that "nothing is free" is false. Yet here we are in 2021 and some amazing people have devoted time over the years to developing quality things for fun, or as a learning project, or whatever reason these free things exist.


Maybe on a _literal _monetary level, but the saying still absolutely holds true 

As far as quality for paid vs free...I can't agree. I'm not a synth programmer and presets are what I care about. U-he's zebra is the first thing that comes to mind - just an amazing range of patches out there for it (check out The Unfinished and Nordsound). 

When you get a synth like Omnisphere, you're also getting a massive built in sample library that you can incorporate into your own patches (not something you'll get in freeware or even most paid synths and sample libraries since the developer was granted a relatively unique license to sample hardware in a commercial product).

But yes, if you program patches from the ground up, you're probably going to do well with a freeware synth. Better not to get into GAS if you haven't already. It's a slippery slope as I'm sure many can attest.


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## chocobitz825

if considering things from a professional standpoint, nothing matters more than what works. a lot of people get caught up on money, but any software can be a waste of resources, even the free ones. You're wasting drive space, time, and/or money. If a synth can make back its value in any of those areas, it's worth it.


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## vitocorleone123

chocobitz825 said:


> if considering things from a professional standpoint, nothing matters more than what works. a lot of people get caught up on money, but any software can be a waste of resources, even the free ones. You're wasting drive space, time, and/or money. If a synth can make back its value in any of those areas, it's worth it.


Or, as a hobbiest musician, if it brings happiness it can also be worth it. Income doesn’t have to factor into it. I’ll never make a dollar with music but, damn, do I love all my software and hardware, as it makes me happy. And I can afford it (also a key factor).


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## bill5

chocobitz825 said:


> if considering things from a professional standpoint, nothing matters more than what works. a lot of people get caught up on money, but any software can be a waste of resources, even the free ones. You're wasting drive space, time, and/or money. If a synth can make back its value in any of those areas, it's worth it.


Good post, but I would counter that drive space is cheap (and most synths don't take up much anyway), and since they're free, you aren't wasting any money. Time is another story, although to find a synth that works takes up no more or less time with free vs paid...I think the real danger of losing time is that because they're free, you figure why not check it out, and there are so many...


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## chocobitz825

bill5 said:


> Good post, but I would counter that drive space is cheap (and most synths don't take up much anyway), and since they're free, you aren't wasting any money. Time is another story, although to find a synth that works takes up no more or less time with free vs paid...I think the real danger of losing time is that because they're free, you figure why not check it out, and there are so many...


you would think drive space is cheap, but some folks around here tend to get pretty shaky about the space their libraries and synths take up on their systems. whatever it is, you're going to be impacted by at least one of those factors.

As Marie Kondo says, "Does it spark joy?" pretty much the only thing that matters on a personal level.


----------



## jcrosby

bill5 said:


> And free plugins CAN'T become cost ineffective, because they're free.


Totally not what I meant. They can become cost ineffective for the developer unless the purpose is to maintain it specifically as a marketing tool in the form of a giveaway. If that weren't the case then the successor to the original TAL Uno-62 wouldn't have been released as a commercial product in the form of TAL-Uno-LX, and TAL would not have it listed as deprecated on their site. (A single example out of many.)


----------



## bill5

chocobitz825 said:


> you would think drive space is cheap, but some folks around here tend to get pretty shaky about the space their libraries and synths take up on their systems. whatever it is, you're going to be impacted by at least one of those factors.


Apples and oranges...libraries can run 10-20GB or more easily, while most synths are more like 50-100MB or less, often a LOT less. Even so, fretting about 10-20GB+ seems silly when 1-2TB hard drives can be had for the cost of dinner for two. 



> As Marie Kondo says, "Does it spark joy?" pretty much the only thing that matters on a personal level.


Absolutely!


----------



## bill5

jcrosby said:


> Totally not what I meant. They can become cost ineffective for the developer unless the purpose is to maintain it specifically as a marketing tool in the form of a giveaway. If that weren't the case then the successor to the original TAL Uno-62 wouldn't have been released as a commercial product in the form of TAL-Uno-LX, and TAL would not have it listed as deprecated on their site. (A single example out of many.)


My bad, I misunderstood.


----------



## chocobitz825

bill5 said:


> Apples and oranges...libraries can run 10-20GB or more easily, while most synths are more like 50-100MB or less, often a LOT less. Even so, fretting about 10-20GB+ seems silly when 1-2TB hard drives can be had for the cost of dinner for two.



I’m with you on that. I don’t view drive space as an issue, but some people seriously lose their shit about the cost of data on their systems. Whether it be for libraries, instruments, project files or backups. Perhaps the person who sticks to free plugins because of financial constraints also sees data upgrades as equally expensive as plugins. I can’t speak for everyone.

ultimately, I think time is the bigger factor. Searching for free stuff and then trying to give it the run through for quality assurance isn’t often all that rewarding in my experience. Some really great free stuff is out there, but I find very little benefit from starting my hunt looking for free, rather than looking for quality at whatever the price may be.


----------



## TomislavEP

bill5 said:


> paid ones do not inherently have any advantage over free ones, presets included.


IMO, this is a bit of a moot point. Presets are not only fantastic starting points but even more so a demo of sonic possibilities for a particular synth. It seems logical that the team behind a commercial product would put more thought and effort into this segment as a part of their selling strategy.

But I agree that this is also often relative and largely dependant on your particular needs and preferences. As I wrote earlier, I'm not particularly keen on presets that come with the majority of Native Instruments VI synths and synth libraries.


----------



## bill5

chocobitz825 said:


> ultimately, I think time is the bigger factor. Searching for free stuff and then trying to give it the run through for quality assurance isn’t often all that rewarding in my experience. Some really great free stuff is out there, but I find very little benefit from starting my hunt looking for free, rather than looking for quality at whatever the price may be.


? Because? Again there seems to be this "you get what you pay for" perception, like free stuff has inherently less quality than paid stuff. Just aint so IMO. The only reason I've spent more time checking out freebies is basically because I can...i.e. they're free, costs me nothing (other than some time) to check them out. Paid stuff costs just as much time per synth, but also my wallet, and there's a big diff between checking out a freebie and it doesn't grab me vs paying for something and that happens...then I'm out more than time, I'm out X dollars.


----------



## chocobitz825

bill5 said:


> ? Because? Again there seems to be this "you get what you pay for" perception, like free stuff has inherently less quality than paid stuff. Just aint so IMO. The only reason I've spent more time checking out freebies is basically because I can...i.e. they're free, costs me nothing (other than some time) to check them out. Paid stuff costs just as much time per synth, but also my wallet, and there's a big diff between checking out a freebie and it doesn't grab me vs paying for something and that happens...then I'm out more than time, I'm out X dollars.


I think the potential for a mismatch is pretty close, but the bigger difference between many free synths and paid ones is marketing material. This isn't universal, but a lot of free synths come with less dedicated documentation to let you know what you're getting. Many, that I have experienced at least, basically say "it's free, try it out and see for yourself." Paid options spend a lot more time trying to convince you that you want it, so you go in generally with a better idea of what you're getting. doesn't mean paid is better, it just means a different approach in many cases. Again my point is not that paid is better. Better is better. 

From a professional standpoint, I don't see a "loss of money" as a factor because if I can make back the cost of the synth from a job, it all breaks even anyways. All I care about is usefulness and stability really. I don't want a synth to waste my time, whatever it costs.


----------



## dohm

I think the paid synths are totally worth it. For example, I was considering buying a Prophet 5 but decided to try the UHE Repro software synth. It is amazing and very very close to the HW! I like hardware synths, but no need to spend >3k$ when the UHE synth is so good and I'm already setup with a good controller. I have Omnisphere, Trillian, Dune 3, Obsession, UHE Diva, UHE Zebra2HZ and a couple more. They are all fantastic. Given what you get from these synths, the are also affordable, imo, and the long term customer support is great. It is worth supporting some of these great software synth companies and developers.


----------



## Gingham Jones

Yeah, the time spent searching for quality free synths can be greatly reduced by Googling what the best free synths are. I've very quickly found a little fewer than 10 that are highly rated, sound great, and have presets built into them. It seems the verdict is still in question. The only issue I've had so far though is with Synth1 because for some reason it decides to stop working and won't produce sound... and the interface is way outdated of course. It sounds great when it does work.


----------



## chocobitz825

Gingham Jones said:


> Yeah, the time spent searching for quality free synths can be greatly reduced by Googling what the best free synths are. I've very quickly found a little fewer than 10 that are highly rated, sound great, and have presets built into them. It seems the verdict is still in question. The only issue I've had so far though is with Synth1 because for some reason it decides to stop working and won't produce sound... and the interface is way outdated of course. It sounds great when it does work.


Perhaps it’s just a bit of a difference of goals and perspectives. Free is not what i search for. If anything I buy based on a desire or need for a certain type of synth. So, sure,I could search for the best free FM synths, but I think in general I’d find the best results by searching for the best FM synths and if some of them happen to be free, that’s just a bonus.


----------



## jcrosby

bill5 said:


> The only reason I've spent more time checking out freebies is basically because I can...i.e. they're free, costs me nothing (other than some time) to check them out. Paid stuff costs just as much time per synth, but also my wallet, and there's a big diff between checking out a freebie and it doesn't grab me vs paying for something and that happens...then I'm out more than time, I'm out X dollars.


For some it comes down to what your time is worth. If you earn a living composing time can be an expensive commodity. A well documented synth with a solid support team in some cases can up the value. Add in something like KSP support for instruments that have it and the time vs cost factor can pay you back in the form of time lost fiddling around. As the post above says it's a difference of goals and perspective vs better or worse.


----------



## el-bo

jcrosby said:


> For some it comes down to what your time is worth. If you earn a living composing time can be an expensive commodity.


But does it really take any more time? If you just Foogle “Best free synths” and choose a couple. Then just use them. Those who have the time and the interest might be happy to find and try all options, but that’s not a pre-requisite.


----------



## jcrosby

el-bo said:


> But does it really take any more time? If you just Foogle “Best free synths” and choose a couple. Then just use them. Those who have the time and the interest might be happy to find and try all options, but that’s not a pre-requisite.


That's great for those that can and do. I think Choco said it very well as being a matter of goals and perspective vs better or worse. I'm not suggesting free synths are bad. It comes down to what I perceive as valuable in the form of an instrument I can consistently rely on to live in a template for ongoing work.


----------



## chocobitz825

el-bo said:


> But does it really take any more time? If you just Foogle “Best free synths” and choose a couple. Then just use them. Those who have the time and the interest might be happy to find and try all options, but that’s not a pre-requisite.


Again I think that’s the difference in thought here. I’m personally not looking for free synths. Free isn’t priority. “Best” is the priority. Or to be more precise, best synth for my needs. If the best synth on a list happens to be free, that’s fantastic! I’m not going to look down on it because it’s free. I’m just not going out of my way to explore the free synth market to try and dig out good ones.

If people have the time for exploration and want to search out great free synths more power to them, but that is time spent searching for something with no other priority other than it’s free price point. It’s a bottom-up approach of finding what’s free and then vetting it for quality. For anyone who values time equally or more than money, that’s lost creative time. As far as price points go, I find way more use lately from the $29 cherry audio synths than I do from the far more expensive Arturia ones…so again, it’s really not about price. It’s just bout results and not wasting time shooting in the dark. For me at least…


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

You can make a nice meal from dumpster-diving, but at some point, you want to support the local restaurants too.


----------



## bill5

Gingham Jones said:


> Yeah, the time spent searching for quality free synths can be greatly reduced by Googling what the best free synths are. I've very quickly found a little fewer than 10 that are highly rated, sound great, and have presets built into them. It seems the verdict is still in question.


That's because internet reviews and articles are just one person's opinion (and they mostly just parrot each other anyway). And as you say, they only list a few (typically the list is "best 10" or similar, not "all the great free ones"). 

Trust me, there are far more than 10 free synths that sound great and have presets (almost all synths have presets FYI, free or not). Of course that's just one guy's opinion too.  And some are very niche, but they're good at filling that niche and so, to me at least. well worth having around.


----------



## bill5

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> You can make a nice meal from dumpster-diving, but at some point, you want to support the local restaurants too.


To each their own...if I buy something it's because I feel it provides me with sufficient value for the cost. I otherwise have no obligation or interest in supporting anyone outside of my household (charitable contributions aside), and similarly I wouldn't expect them to support me either. I'm not destitute, but I'm hardly rich either, so if I buy a plugin, it's because I think it's worth the money...no more, no less. If someone thinks that makes me a "bad person," whatever, again to each their own.


----------



## sean8877

bill5 said:


> To each their own...if I buy something it's because I feel it provides me with sufficient value for the cost. I otherwise have no obligation or interest in supporting anyone outside of my household (charitable contributions aside), and similarly I wouldn't expect them to support me either. I'm not destitute, but I'm hardly rich either, so if I buy a plugin, it's because I think it's worth the money...no more, no less. If someone thinks that makes me a "bad person," whatever, again to each their own.


I think the point is supporting devs who are making worthwhile synths so that they can continue their work and put out maybe even better products. Win win for everybody.


----------



## muratkayi

Hi,

I played only free synths for years on end and was basically happy with them. Therefore I would only like to point out one thing: 
If you ever feel like purchasing ONE single product by NI, save yourself some regrets and just buy Komplete (at whatever version it happens to be at). I singled out and bought Prism and then other stuff and looking back I should have just gotten the whole thing and be done with it. And THEN you will find a plethora of synths that will blow your mind. 

Also, having bought Komplete, you have access to the Reaktor User library which is a universe of its own. So, buying a paid synth to just own a paid synth as such won't actually make a difference, but I found owning Komplete really made a difference.

Also, there is no such thing as too many plugins.


----------



## José Herring

There's some great synth makers popping up that have really reasonably priced stuff now. I'm starting to get into Cherry Audio and Tal and Synapses a lot these days.


----------



## doctoremmet

TAL are on my radar too. Their Sampler especially, seeing how one of my favourite sound designers is creating tons of great patches with it...


----------



## kitekrazy

I guess a lot has to do with what DAW you are using. I've seen so much stuff using 3xOsc in FL Studio. You could do a lot o work in Reason or Live with built in synths. I've gotten to the point where I've bought so many I don't bother checking out free ones.


----------



## chocobitz825

kitekrazy said:


> I guess a lot has to do with what DAW you are using. I've seen so much stuff using 3xOsc in FL Studio. You could do a lot o work in Reason or Live with built in synths. I've gotten to the point where I've bought so many I don't bother checking out free ones.


i can agree here. I made a long round trip through various paid synths just to realize studio one had a pretty nice powerhouse built-in as well.


----------



## jcrosby

doctoremmet said:


> TAL are on my radar too. Their Sampler especially, seeing how one of my favourite sound designers is creating tons of great patches with it...



I have this and absolutely love it. Everything EV puts his hands on is gold AFAIC


----------



## doctoremmet

jcrosby said:


> I have this and absolutely love it! Everything EV puts his hands on is gold AFAIC


Cool. I have his LION and Thorn sets and some WAV packs. EV is my current “main inspirational sound guy”, I just seem to love everything he touches.


----------



## Greeno

Gingham Jones said:


> I just recently entered the vast, wonderful world of synths and have found that there are an insane amount of free synths that sound... well, like synths! Is there any reason to buy any? I mean, Modulair is a full modular synth (though I haven't played around with it much) for free and there are plenty of hardware emulations too. Some of these free ones have okay-to-horrid interfaces, like Synth1, so I could see that being an advantage to paid synths but are there any sound quality or functional benefits?


I entered the synth world properly a year ago and for me despite owning all of the N.I synths and several free ones, when I finally got to play other 'paid' synths I could immediately hear and feel the quality difference.
For me U-he synths such as Diva, Hive 2 etc , Omnisphere and The Arturia Synths are where it is at, obviously there are plenty more to list but these are my go-to synths. I could talk all day about how good U-he synths are, when you open out the filters, the warmth and timbre....also worth a mention are Synapse with Dune 3 etc and Massive x with its expansions. They all just have a sound quality and depth that goes beyond free ones. Sure the best free ones are very good for free, if you're happy with those then all good but worth trying those mentioned.


----------



## Wally Garten

Greeno said:


> I entered the synth world properly a year ago and for me despite owning all of the N.I synths and several free ones, when I finally got to play other 'paid' synths I could immediately hear and feel the quality difference.
> For me U-he synths such as Diva, Hive 2 etc , Omnisphere and The Arturia Synths are where it is at, obviously there are plenty more to list but these are my go-to synths. I could talk all day about how good U-he synths are, when you open out the filters, the warmth and timbre....also worth a mention are Synapse with Dune 3 etc and Massive x with its expansions. They all just have a sound quality and depth that goes beyond free ones. Sure the best free ones are very good for free, if you're happy with those then all good but worth trying those mentioned.


Yeah. I've used free and "free" (e.g., included in my DAW) synths for years. U-he's paid stuff, which I only recently got int he NI sale, is on a whole other level in terms of warm "analogue" timbre. Just really incredible. For those sounds, my experience is that you really do get what you pay for.

That said, you can make great music with any of the free tools people have mentioned here. You can also make great music with the cheapies like Cherry Audio or Plogue's line of chip emulations. 

And there's an in-between range, too -- AAS' physical modeling synths are usually around $99 and are wonderful for "organic" sounds. And Sonic Charge makes some paid tools that do stuff you don't really find anywhere else. This is to say nothing of Reaktor, which is a one-time buy-in for an extraordinary ecosystem of community-built synths -- some better than others, but the best ones are spectacular.

All of these have sweet spots, and it can take some trial and error to find the ones that best suit your particular style and workflow. Which leads to a final observation -- often the "best" synth is the one you've spent the most time with, whose functioning you understand and whose controls are intuitive to you. If you can get what you want out of a decades-old free synth, or that old NI synth that you've own through several iterations of Komplete... often that's all you need!

(But it is fun to try all the new toys, too.)


----------



## Pier

Some free synths are awesome (eg: Vital) but you know what's more awesome?

People getting paid to work on what they love.

I throw money at U-He because Urs and co are doing amazing work and I want to support them. I deeply believe the musical ecosystem is better with their products. Whenever I watch a Nolan film and I hear Zebra used by HZ, I know that was possible in part because people like me supported U-He over the years.


----------



## mscp

Gingham Jones said:


> I just recently entered the vast, wonderful world of synths and have found that there are an insane amount of free synths that sound... well, like synths! Is there any reason to buy any?


Yes. There are plenty.



Gingham Jones said:


> I mean, Modulair is a full modular synth (though I haven't played around with it much) for free and there are plenty of hardware emulations too.


I'm not familiar with Modulair but I can hear the difference between the same OSC



Gingham Jones said:


> Some of these free ones have okay-to-horrid interfaces, like Synth1, so I could see that being an advantage to paid synths but are there any sound quality or functional benefits?


Synth1 is an amazing subtractive/FM synth with some features but only has one filter style, one VCA, no routing, .... It's a great synth though and you can do a lot with it.

There is a myriad of reasons why you'd buy a soft synth (or hard synth)...

If you're new to synthesis, start with free ones, and then once you learn the basics of sound design, you will start wishing you could do things that come up in your head...which will then force you to look for paid synths in one way or the other. hehe.


----------



## vitocorleone123

muratkayi said:


> Hi,
> 
> I played only free synths for years on end and was basically happy with them. Therefore I would only like to point out one thing:
> If you ever feel like purchasing ONE single product by NI, save yourself some regrets and just buy Komplete (at whatever version it happens to be at). I singled out and bought Prism and then other stuff and looking back I should have just gotten the whole thing and be done with it. And THEN you will find a plethora of synths that will blow your mind.
> 
> Also, having bought Komplete, you have access to the Reaktor User library which is a universe of its own. So, buying a paid synth to just own a paid synth as such won't actually make a difference, but I found owning Komplete really made a difference.
> 
> Also, there is no such thing as too many plugins.


No. I upgraded from Kontakt to Komplete and sold that upgrade months later because it was mostly not worth the money as I already had better or equivalent stuff/didn’t like what was in it. Freed up a ton of hard drive space, too. Komplete was a complete waste of money for me.

Also, there’s definitely such a thing as too many plugins. Paralysis of choice is real. Not to mention time to truly learn and master each tool rather than preset surf.


----------



## muratkayi

vitocorleone123 said:


> Not to mention time to truly learn and master each tool


I would definitely mention time. It helped me tremendously to systematically check each product, get a feel for it, set tasks for certain products and the like so that when it's time to play, I know what I am dealing with. Also, the Maschine/Komplete Kontrol Browsers with their tagging and fav system really help to narrow the vastness of Komplete down to a manageable list of choices. 

But you know... YMMV


----------



## bill5

Phil81 said:


> If you're new to synthesis, start with free ones, and then once you learn the basics of sound design, you will start wishing you could do things that come up in your head...which will then force you to look for paid synths in one way or the other. hehe.


Only if you haven't fully explored the great free synths out there.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

I've been quite happy with the combination of Arturia Pigments and the Knifonium plugin. I got both for $100 total through sales.

Pigments is ridiculously powerful and pretty easy to learn. Knifonium has a sound like no other IMO, but it's definitely not for everyone.

The free stuff is pretty phenomenal though. I just really like Pigments' UI and Knifonium's distinct tone.


----------



## bbrylow

I’ve never actually found a free synth and that was up to the task of being used for professional composition work. There’s some good stuff for just fooling around and making music for fun but not as a workhorse synthesizer.


----------



## bill5

Then you haven't looked very hard.


----------



## bbrylow

I’ve tried them all, especially all of the stuff that was created with synthedit and died out at 32 bit. I’ve been doing this for over 20 years and the only one that I have found truly reliable is Surge.


----------



## doctoremmet

I’d argue of the current crop of free ones, Vital and Pendulate are very reliable too


----------



## SteveC

I like MSoundfactory alot. I love the Arturia sound. I think Dexed is a nice and free DX7 emulation for example. Normally, the paid ones sound better right out of the box. The free ones need a bit more care.

Btw: I bought Arturia V collection 4 for 40€. Nobody wants to buy these old versions, but sometimes you can upgrade from every version to the newest for 99$. I saw a Arturia 4 offer at KnobCloud (https://www.knobcloud.com/i/12162/arturia-v-collection-4-349-upgrade-to-v-collection) - you can ask him, maybe he sells his version for 40€. That's the way I bought it.


----------



## Pier

bill5 said:


> Then you haven't looked very hard.


Indeed.

Vital is better than many paid synths in the market (IMHO).


----------



## jcrosby

Pier said:


> Some free synths are awesome (eg: Vital) but you know what's more awesome?
> 
> People getting paid to work on what they love.


^ This.


----------



## janila

Are free synths worth it? Most soft synths still sound cold and digital and I haven’t heard analog-style warmth in free synths. Softube Model 72 and Modular made me sell my hardware synths, I like to work in the box and with them sound quality wasn’t an issue. It’s also quite obvious that there isn’t going to be official Buchla modules for VCV. Omnisphere is the bargain of the century, no way anyone could get near that quality and amount of content in a free product. Without paid synths I would be tied to hardware synths for years to come.


----------



## vinnie2k

vitocorleone123 said:


> No. I upgraded from Kontakt to Komplete and sold that upgrade months later because it was mostly not worth the money as I already had better or equivalent stuff/didn’t like what was in it. Freed up a ton of hard drive space, too. Komplete was a complete waste of money for me.


Can you expand on this? I have Kontakt and am loking at upgrading to Komplete.


----------



## vinnie2k

Pier said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Vital is better than many paid synths in the market (IMHO).


We want names 
Seriously though: names would help me decide to get Komplete or not.


----------



## José Herring

Pier said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Vital is better than many paid synths in the market (IMHO).


Vital is a paid synth.


----------



## vinnie2k

José Herring said:


> Vital is a paid synth.


There's a fully functional free version.


----------



## el-bo

vinnie2k said:


> Can you expand on this? I have Kontakt and am loking at upgrading to Komplete.


Its very hard for most people to NOT be able to justify the cost of the cross-grade from Kontakt to Komplete. You only need want a handful of the plugins or libraries and it pays for itself.
But that doesn't mean it'll work for everyone. It's not out of the realms of possibility that you might own better or preferred alternatives to what is on offer.

Unless you give an idea of what you own, what kind of music you make and what particular about Komplete is of interest, then it's not so easy to advise.


----------



## vitocorleone123

el-bo said:


> Its very hard for most people to NOT be able to justify the cost of the cross-grade from Kontakt to Komplete. You only need want a handful of the plugins or libraries and it pays for itself.
> But that doesn't mean it'll work for everyone. It's not out of the realms of possibility that you might own better or preferred alternatives to what is on offer.
> 
> Unless you give an idea of what you own, what kind of music you make and what particular about Komplete is of interest, then it's not so easy to advise.


Yeah.

For example: me. I have Kontakt, upgraded, sold the upgrade as being near worthless to me, as I already had other things that were as good, or, more often, better. I picked the right time and got back what I paid for it, at least.

Generally, I recommend taking your time and doing your research to find the right tools rather than diving in with the "shotgun" approach of buying huge bundles of stuff and hoping for the best. I'd rather have 3 tools I know and love than 300 to sort through. Now, if you've tried a bunch of things and NI is your favorite for them all, go for it!

Of course, when you get 300 you know and love, that, too, gives some issues!


----------



## musicisum

vinnie2k said:


> We want names
> Seriously though: names would help me decide to get Komplete or not.


I'd avoid it… 
Simply take a look here at what some guy named rctec on that forum says about u-he synths. 
My personal favorites:

u-he Repro (cinematic, big sounding, but can do the modern EDM stuff super good as well)
TAL-Uno (Juno emulation)
Korg Triton for that really vintage e-piano sound
Serum (tons of brilliant presets with that)


----------



## el-bo

musicisum said:


> I'd avoid it…
> Simply take a look here at what some guy named rctec on that forum says about u-he synths.
> My personal favorites:
> 
> u-he Repro (cinematic, big sounding, but can do the modern EDM stuff super good as well)
> TAL-Uno (Juno emulation)
> Korg Triton for that really vintage e-piano sound
> Serum (tons of brilliant presets with that)


But none of those cover the scope of synths like Kontour, Rounds, Prism or Form, for example


----------



## José Herring

vinnie2k said:


> There's a fully functional free version.


Sort of. I consider it a fully functional demo. Features are added as you pay. Not to mention they have some great presets. 

So I don't consider it "free" per sey but rather having tiers of ownership including a subscription.


----------



## musicisum

el-bo said:


> But none of those cover the scope of synths like Kontour, Rounds, Prism or Form, for example


Oh… realizing I know nothing once again! 
Thanks for the input. My thoughts were mainly about synths to quickly get "that sound"


----------



## Alchemedia

doctoremmet said:


> I’d argue of the current crop of free ones, Vital and Pendulate are very reliable too


Don't forget about Surge!


----------



## doctoremmet

Alchemedia said:


> Don't forget about Surge!


Believe it or not, I kind of did. And I have never spend any time with it. But yes, of course you are right!


----------



## el-bo

musicisum said:


> Oh… realizing I know nothing once again!
> Thanks for the input. My thoughts were mainly about synths to quickly get "that sound"


It's not a question of knowing nothing. All your suggestions are good recommendations.

But it's all context-dependant, with each different person having their own particular context. Not everyone will want the types of sounds the synths i listed offer. But also, between Monark, Super 8, Razor and Massive X, perhaps Komplete even covers much of what you listed. Not saying it is better, just saying it's not so cut 'n' dry...from either perspective.

Komplete also has a ton of good-to-great drum Kontent (Acoustic and 'Machine'), the powerhouse that is Reaktor, a great guitar/multi-fx suite, a shed-load of awesome production and sound-design fx and some really spiffing sample libraries, should anyone be inclined.

Of course, 'Repro' deserves a spot in anyone's collection, Komplete or not 

*Edited*, for spelling!


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## el-bo

Alchemedia said:


> Don't forget about Surge!


Who could ever forget about Serge?


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## doctoremmet

Lol


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## doctoremmet

Serge Modular


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## Pier

José Herring said:


> Vital is a paid synth.


Actually the synth is free to use. When you pay you get more presets and wavetables.


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## sean8877

Pier said:


> Actually the synth is free to use. When you pay you get more presets and wavetables.


Yes, you're only paying for extra presets and wavetables with Vital, all the functionality is available in the free version.


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## José Herring

Pier said:


> Actually the synth is free to use. When you pay you get more presets and wavetables.





sean8877 said:


> Yes, you're only paying for extra presets and wavetables with Vital, all the functionality is available in the free version.


So what you are saying is, it's a fully functional free paid synth. I'm happy with that.


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## lastmessiah

vinnie2k said:


> Can you expand on this? I have Kontakt and am loking at upgrading to Komplete.


There’s nothing special about NI or Komplete. I have Bitwig Studio and can do just about everything Komplete does just with that. NI just has brand recognition and hype and lots of reinforcement in internet circles. Not to say that they make bad products, but they aren’t the only game in town.


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## sean8877

José Herring said:


> So what you are saying is, it's a fully functional free paid synth. I'm happy with that.


No the fully functional synth is free, so not sure what you're getting at. It comes with some presets and wavetables in the free version (they have nothing to do with the functionality of the synth). There are tons of free presets and wavetables available on their Vital forums also. Some people pay for the extra presets and wavetables I think to mostly support the developer, but no requirement to pay in order to have the fully functional synth.


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## José Herring

sean8877 said:


> No the fully functional synth is free, so not sure what you're getting at. It comes with some presets and wavetables in the free version (they have nothing to do with the functionality of the synth). There are tons of free presets and wavetables available on their Vital forums also. Some people pay for the extra presets and wavetables I think to mostly support the developer, but no requirement to pay in order to have the fully functional synth.


I used the free version for a while. The paid version has a lot more than you think.


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## AkashicBird

I'm pretty new to synth but between Surge and Vital, I don't see the need to go look at paid synths for a pretty long time, I think.
That being said, U-HE synths are pretty cool.
But honestly Surge and Vital alone should get you covered. And Zebralette too.


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## lastmessiah

José Herring said:


> I used the free version for a while. The paid version has a lot more than you think.


It's just presets though. That isn't anything that's not already in the synth itself.


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## Alchemedia

Here's another very cool freebie!

*Odin 2 Open-Source Synthesizer*

24-voice polyphonic synthesizer. It covers about every type of synthesis out there:


Three Osc Slots: Choose from eleven different modules
Draw Oscillator Waves / Spectra
Three Filter Slots: High quality analog filter emulations (Ladder, KRG-35, SEM and more).
FX Included: Delay, Phaser, Flanger, Chorus and Distortion.
Flexible Routing
Four ADSRs
Four LFOs
XY-Pad
Big Modulation Matrix
Arpeggiator
Preset Library






TheWaveWarden







www.thewavewarden.com


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## Alchemedia

More excellent freebies...


full bucket music


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## vinnie2k

el-bo said:


> Its very hard for most people to NOT be able to justify the cost of the cross-grade from Kontakt to Komplete. You only need want a handful of the plugins or libraries and it pays for itself.
> But that doesn't mean it'll work for everyone. It's not out of the realms of possibility that you might own better or preferred alternatives to what is on offer.
> 
> Unless you give an idea of what you own, what kind of music you make and what particular about Komplete is of interest, then it's not so easy to advise.


I was looking for why the poster thought it was a Komplete waste of money *for him" as I didn't want to hijack the thread (completely).

Since you're asking  I am a hobbyist; I make all kinds of music, nothing really genre-specific. I am actually looking into collaborating with other like-minded people because I don't have a lot of seed ideas on my own.

I bought Kontakt because I was frustrated about not being able to use some of the good free free librairies that only work with the full version of Kontakt. Now that the summer sale is on, Komplete likes like a good bargain for the breadth of instruments it offers.


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## el-bo

vinnie2k said:


> Komplete likes like a good bargain for the breadth of instruments it offers.


What do you already have? What do you think you're lacking? What interests you in Komplete?


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## vinnie2k

el-bo said:


> What do you already have? What do you think you're lacking? What interests you in Komplete?


Right now, I'm sitting on 

Native Instruments: 
Komplete Elements, 
Kontakt Factory Library, 
Kontakt Factory Selection, 
Reaktor 6 Player, 
Reaktor Factory Selection R2, 
Play Series Selection, 
Guitar Rig 5 Elements Selection,
Cloud Supply,

Project Sam The Free Orchestra,
Ferrum Free,
7CG MkII (piano), 
Kirk Hunter Virtuoso (classical ensemble), 
a whole bunch of Rigid Audio instruments,
Spitfire Audio:
Labs,
BBC SO Discover,

XLN Addictive Drums 1 + 2 free ones
Vital,
Synthmaster One, plus a couple of freebees.
In Komplete, I like:

Monark and the rest of the NI synths because I like synths, I want to understand them better and learn how to use them,
Some of the pianos because I currently have two (that I know of) and sometimes this restricts what I want to do with them,
The drums instruments because I'd like to upgrade from what I have (I'm a drummer),
Some of the global instruments look interesting to get new vibes into my music,
Session guitarist because even though I own an electric guitar I'm not that good with it and Session Guitarist seems like a good option for what I want to do,
Guitar Rig (see above),
The expansions I haven't looked into.
I am looking at getting the standard edition but it seriously lacks in the classical and cinematic areas which I do want to get into because I think I'd like to try film scoring: starting from scratch is not my strong suit and getting a lead on creativity with video sounds like an interesting option for me. So Ultimate looks like an interesting option, especially for half price.

I am looking at getting rid of a lot of free stuff and various installers lying around to make my life simpler: start Komplete Kontrol, find my sound, be done with it. I'm doing the same on the FX side: I got iZotope MPS for $200 and got rid of almost everything else. I don't have the time or knowledge to fudge around with testing plugins left and right.

Funny how this all sounds like I'm trying to convince myself


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## el-bo

vinnie2k said:


> Right now, I'm sitting on
> 
> Native Instruments:
> Komplete Elements,
> Kontakt Factory Library,
> Kontakt Factory Selection,
> Reaktor 6 Player,
> Reaktor Factory Selection R2,
> Play Series Selection,
> Guitar Rig 5 Elements Selection,
> Cloud Supply,
> 
> Project Sam The Free Orchestra,
> Ferrum Free,
> 7CG MkII (piano),
> Kirk Hunter Virtuoso (classical ensemble),
> a whole bunch of Rigid Audio instruments,
> Spitfire Audio:
> Labs,
> BBC SO Discover,
> 
> XLN Addictive Drums 1 + 2 free ones
> Vital,
> Synthmaster One, plus a couple of freebees.
> In Komplete, I like:
> 
> Monark and the rest of the NI synths because I like synths, I want to understand them better and learn how to use them,
> Some of the pianos because I currently have two (that I know of) and sometimes this restricts what I want to do with them,
> The drums instruments because I'd like to upgrade from what I have (I'm a drummer),
> Some of the global instruments look interesting to get new vibes into my music,
> Session guitarist because even though I own an electric guitar I'm not that good with it and Session Guitarist seems like a good option for what I want to do,
> Guitar Rig (see above),
> The expansions I haven't looked into.
> I am looking at getting the standard edition but it seriously lacks in the classical and cinematic areas which I do want to get into because I think I'd like to try film scoring: starting from scratch is not my strong suit and getting a lead on creativity with video sounds like an interesting option for me. So Ultimate looks like an interesting option, especially for half price.
> 
> I am looking at getting rid of a lot of free stuff and various installers lying around to make my life simpler: start Komplete Kontrol, find my sound, be done with it. I'm doing the same on the FX side: I got iZotope MPS for $200 and got rid of almost everything else. I don't have the time or knowledge to fudge around with testing plugins left and right.
> 
> Funny how this all sounds like I'm trying to convince myself


With Komplete Standard, you get a lot of your wants covered. Good quality stuff, also. Good enough that you may never need to look elsewhere. But you'll need to think (And pretty quickly, I guess) if you're likely to feel settled or if you're already looking at other things. For instance:

I think the Abbey Road drums are really good kits. Deeply sampled, good set of articulations and with a flexible mixer (Includes top fx) that offers a wealth of sound possibilities from each kit. Whether it'll stop you from lusting after BFD or Superior Drummer is the question (I actually own BFD, but still love using the AR 70's 'Tight Kit', for example)

I really like Guitar Rig. However, some will swear it pails in comparison to Amplitube et al.

Battery is a solid performer, with tons of Kontent. Add Reaktor's PolyPlex and Kontakt's DrumLab (Not to mention all the Maschine expansions) and you'll be sorted for electronic and hybrid beats for a long time. 

And the world percussion stuff (India, Middle-East etc,) are still worthy additions.

Then if you're interested in Reaktor, the cross-grade pretty much pays for itself. The included synths etc. are excellent, but you also get access to huge amounts of free user-created kontent etc.

The older synths are no slouches, either. Huge amounts of sounds and creative potential to be had. But by this point, even if you're not taken by these older synths, you're pretty much getting the for free.

Good selection of pianos (The Grandeur seems to be a go-to for many VI-C users), and Una Corda is a beautiful instrument. 

Then there's everything else.

What i can't really advise about it jumping to 'Ultimate' or CE, as I have yet to do so. I think this is where you have to assess each extra library as to whether or not you chose from NI's set-menu or whether you decide to start picking up the (perhaps) more niche libraries a la carte, from other developers. I personally would love to get hold of their cinematic libraries libraries such as Arkhis, Straylight, Thrill etc. but just can't afford it this time around. These libraries are generally very well-regarded, however.


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## el-bo

vinnie2k said:


> I am looking at getting rid of a lot of free stuff and various installers lying around to make my life simpler: start Komplete Kontrol, find my sound, be done with it.


And here was me, about to recommend you check the freebies thread, here, and grab a load of free booty at Spitfire's Pianobook 

As for Komplete Kontrol? Hmmm...Not clicked with that, at all.


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## vinnie2k

el-bo said:


> And here was me, about to recommend you check the freebies thread, here, and grab a load of free booty at Spitfire's Pianobook
> 
> As for Komplete Kontrol? Hmmm...Not clicked with that, at all.


How do you pick your sounds? Browse presets?


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## el-bo

vinnie2k said:


> How do you pick your sounds? Browse presets?


Oh, I get it. You think I actually make music...






---------

But yeah...Generally just browse presets. It's very rare that I have such a clear idea of an exact type of sound that will fit. Nor am I producing to someone else's deadline. i can afford to experiment. Anything I come across that sounds worthwhile will be saved as a channel-strip in my DAW.

But you might get on fine with KK


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## vinnie2k

Well you were very helpful. Thank you.


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## el-bo

vinnie2k said:


> Well you were very helpful. Thank you.


You're welcome! Let us know how you get on


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## Wally Garten

el-bo said:


> you also get access to huge amounts of free user-created kontent


I see what you did there.


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## Lionel Schmitt

A good argument for paid synths is the availability of preset packs.
Lots of incredible sounds out there for the paid ones... not quite gonna be that way with free ones.
But if one makes their own sounds anyway.... it might not matter.
But make sure you are better than all those preset pack makers :D Including The Unfinished, for filmscore etc people


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## el-bo

DarkestShadow said:


> A good argument for paid synths is the availability of preset packs.
> Lots of incredible sounds out there for the paid ones... not quite gonna be that way with free ones.
> But if one makes their own sounds anyway.... it might not matter.
> But make sure you are better than all those preset pack makers :D Including The Unfinished, for filmscore etc people


The preset pack situation might change, especially as more freebies are starting to be regarded as stand-out synths (Vital, Tyrel N6 and Surge, specifically). There is of course the age-old (Perhaps only on KVR) debate about the ethics of charging money for presets designed with and for free synths, but I think that the quality of the sounds will be the determining factor.

Interestingly 'The Unfinished' does have a handful of free sound sets, for free synths...sol there's that


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## Lionel Schmitt

el-bo said:


> The preset pack situation might change, especially as more freebies are starting to be regarded as stand-out synths (Vital, Tyrel N6 and Surge, specifically). There is of course the age-old (Perhaps only on KVR) debate about the ethics of charging money for presets designed with and for free synths, but I think that the quality of the sounds will be the determining factor.
> 
> Interestingly 'The Unfinished' does have a handful of free sound sets, for free synths...sol there's that


yea, won't be the same quality though. At least in the cinematic realm the best presets will be aimed at professional film and trailer composers who use paid synths mostly. Same with The Unfinished. His free content is about 1% of his plentiful paid content in amount and value, naturally.
So.. there's that


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## el-bo

DarkestShadow said:


> yea, won't be the same quality though. At least in the cinematic realm the best presets will be aimed at professional film and trailer composers who use paid synths mostly. Same with The Unfinished. His free content is about 1% of his plentiful paid content in amount and value, naturally.


That a sound-designer would put sub-par work out for unpaid synths seems a little odd to me, but who knows.

But I did make the distinction between free and paid sound-banks. I’d expect a paid Matt Bowdler (Unfinished) bank, for a free synth, to be nothing but the best he was able to make at that particular time.


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## Lionel Schmitt

el-bo said:


> That a sound-designer would put sub-par work out for unpaid synths seems a little odd to me, but who knows.
> 
> But I did make the distinction between free and paid sound-banks. I’d expect a paid Matt Bowdler (Unfinished) bank, for a free synth, to be nothing but the best he was able to make at that particular time.


yea, I've never seen paid presets for free synths though.
I'm sure it exists but the options are certainly not comparable to the paid synth market.
I haven't seen any paid preset packs for free synths by Matt....


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## el-bo

DarkestShadow said:


> yea, I've never seen paid presets for free synths though.
> I'm sure it exists but the options are certainly not comparable to the paid synth market.
> I haven't seen any paid preset packs for free synths by Matt....


It’s certainly not common. However, I have seen it happen a few times over the years (Can’t remember specifics). and it tends to be received with a lot of negativity. The argument seems to be that if the developer is giving his hard work away for free, then it’s not right for others’ to profit.

Personally, I don’t see an issue unless the developer expressly forbids it.

I imagine that Vital (probably Surge, also) are going to make it onto uuge amounts of computers, over the coming years. It’s a huge potential market for sound-designers. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see


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## musicman3000

I'm not sure if people mentioned it in the middle pages but no free synth discussion should be complete without mentioning dexed. Get dexed and you can downlaod 3000 dx7 patches in a small zip and be busy for a while :D.


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## musicman3000

Oh btw. if your goal is to just look for a preset and roll with it, i think picking up analog lab could be a great idea.


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## Living Fossil

DarkestShadow said:


> A good argument for paid synths is the availability of preset packs.


Unfortunately the availability of preset packs is also an argument for paid synths.

If there where e.g. more high quality sounds, programmed by famous soundesigners, available for Melda's Powersynth, i'm quite sure its popularity would skyrocket.


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## Saxer

One thing with paid software is support. Troubleshooting, new versions for operation system updates, a supporting forum... Omnisphere is a synth of it's own league. The hardware support is great (connecting a supported synth and use Omnisphere like a hardware synth) and the sample content and the library is massive. And the U-He synths are character synths. Great collection of world class patch programmers are supporting these synths. It's more than the software itself you pay for.


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## vinnie2k

el-bo said:


> You're welcome! Let us know how you get on


I went for it. The $200 for the upgrade were well invested: my smile was widening as I was scrolling down Kontakt 

I now need to find projects to work on - is there a collaboration thread somewhere on here?


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## el-bo

vinnie2k said:


> I went for it. The $200 for the upgrade were well invested: my smile was widening as I was scrolling down Kontakt
> 
> I now need to find projects to work on - is there a collaboration thread somewhere on here?


So you went with ‘Standard’, right?

As for collaborating, not sure there’s a specific section or thread. Perhaps you could start something in the composition section.

Not adverse to the idea of collaboration, but I’ve just retired my computer from music-making duties :(


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## easyrider

Saxer said:


> One thing with paid software is support. Troubleshooting, new versions for operation system updates, a supporting forum... Omnisphere is a synth of it's own league. The hardware support is great (connecting a supported synth and use Omnisphere like a hardware synth) and the sample content and the library is massive. And the U-He synths are character synths. Great collection of world class patch programmers are supporting these synths. It's more than the software itself you pay for.


Happy owner of Omnisphere and U-HE here 👍


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## vinnie2k

el-bo said:


> So you went with ‘Standard’, right?


I did. IT issues with going for more - and I have enough to discover with Standard.


----------



## el-bo

vinnie2k said:


> I have enough to discover with Standard.


Indeed! It's the gift that keeps on giving


----------



## dsteinschneider

Gingham Jones said:


> @el-bo I ended up with IK's Syntronik and I have the ones that come with the paid version of Kontakt. I don't like Syntronik at all. It's very frustrating trying to find presets and when I load one it doesn't look like anything changes on the synth so it seems like you have to use the presets to get sounds.


I bought Studio Max 2 for other IK products. I spent about an hour on Syntronik getting it installed (because it's mostly sample based and involves large downloads). I also just didn't find it compelling when I already have so many great synths like Synth1, Surge, Vital, Uh-e Tryrell, Dexed, OP-X, MinimogueVA and more.


----------



## KEM

I’m not well versed in the world of free synths but I’m totally happy with all the synths I’ve bought and I think they’re well worth the price I paid for them, especially Omnisphere and Zebra, use them on everything and probably always will


----------



## el-bo




----------



## vinnie2k

I did pick the right synth (with headphones). UIs can be learned, and that's where NI synths could really use an upgrade - oh, and their manuals too.


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## hoxclab

I have Keyscape, Omnisphere, Trilian from Spectrasonics and from U-He I have Diva, Hive 2, Repro, and Zebra 2. I honestly feel like that's all I need. Oh and Synapse Audio Obsession, love that bad boy.


----------



## vitocorleone123

hoxclab said:


> I have Keyscape, Omnisphere, Trilian from Spectrasonics and from U-He I have Diva, Hive 2, Repro, and Zebra 2. I honestly feel like that's all I need. Oh and Synapse Audio Obsession, love that bad boy.


Sure, that might be all that you NEED. But you still might want to add TAL Bassline 101, Softube Model 84, bx_oberhausen, and The Legend. Just to be sure, you see.

EDIT: And don't forget NI Super 8!


----------



## doctoremmet




----------

