# Liberty and Honor, DB demo + fusion of DB and older VSL brass



## Guy Bacos (Feb 12, 2011)

Liberty and Honor (Dimension Brass)


Just so there's no misunderstanding, DB is not replacing the old brass. Just for fun I added some color, 10%-15% from the previous VSL brass and this is the result:

Fusion between Dimension Brass and older VSL brass libraries


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## Colin O'Malley (Feb 12, 2011)

*Re: Liberty and Honor (re-mixed) Dimension Brass demo*

Guy,

This mix sounds better than the previous version you posted. The brass is sitting farther back and imaging better. The reverb also sounds more natural to me. I would be curious to hear what Dimension would sound like with the original VSL brass on the lead lines (Dimension on all supporting harmonies). Dimension seems to solve the "pipe organ" effect on chords, but the original ensemble might be bolder sounding. Writing and producing a piece like this with samples is no easy task. I'm not sure I could have done it. 

Colin


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## synergy543 (Feb 12, 2011)

*Re: Liberty and Honor (re-mixed) Dimension Brass demo*

Great sounding mix and a spectacular piece. 

This new mix adds a nice sense of depth, clarity, and spacial panning - a difficult combination to achieve.


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## antoniopandrade (Feb 12, 2011)

This makes me want to hear a Dimension mock-up version of "Fanfare for the Common Man" :D

great job Guy, always enjoyed your demos on the VSL site!


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 12, 2011)

*Re: Liberty and Honor (re-mixed) Dimension Brass demo*

Thanks Colin, Greg and antoniopandrade!

Colin, getting rid of that organ effect was too first thing I was happy about, and there are big chords here. No doubt, combining DB with some of the other VSL brass will enhance it, but so people wouldn't get confused with other lib I only used DB since this is a DB dedicated demo, however, I will eventually make demos combining them as you suggested.

Greg, it just shows what a better mix can do.  


antoniopandrade, you bet, "Fanfare for the Common Man" would be awesome, and Jay Bacal would be the man for that.


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## Ryan Scully (Feb 12, 2011)

*Re: Liberty and Honor (re-mixed) Dimension Brass demo*

Great Demo Guy! This piece really illustrates the library effectively. 

+1 on "Fanfare For The Common Man" !!! o-[][]-o


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## jamwerks (Feb 12, 2011)

*Re: Liberty and Honor (re-mixed) Dimension Brass demo*

Best Dimension demo I’ve heard to this point. Nice mixing job also.

Only little weak spot (imo) the trumpets at 3'00". Maybe the right articulations aren’t available to make that work?

What reverb are you using? o-[][]-o


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 12, 2011)

*Re: Liberty and Honor (re-mixed) Dimension Brass demo*

Thanks prscully20 and jamwerks!

Jamwerks, I used "Samplicity Bricasti M7", I had downloaded in my altiverb/Amsterdam hall, and for ER Todd AO. Very little rev is needed, this threw me off at the beginning.


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## Allegra (Feb 12, 2011)

*Re: Liberty and Honor (re-mixed) Dimension Brass demo*

Although I am not a programmer and cannot make suggestions regarding software choices or adjustments, or different library choices, I can speak and address to the improved mix of the composition *Liberty and Honor*. 

Guy, this remixed version (except the obvious ...to much reverb here, or too much vibrato there comments etc.) really confirms the belief that a good mix can make all the difference in the piece coming to life and hearing with clarity the harmonies and subtle nuance of the work; which is the real purpose of the Composer. It's quite a challenge learning how to improve with each new mix attempt. It's the difference between a mediocre result and a really refined result that has the musical punch that the composer was after. I should think, it's the main objective of the composer. Not easy decisions either...it's all about ears isn't it? 

I think you accomplished this task quite well. o=< 
Keep up the good work. 
In your grasp, the brass is a gas!

Allegra


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 13, 2011)

*Re: Liberty and Honor (re-mixed) Dimension Brass demo*

Thanks Allegra, much appreciated!


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## Dave Connor (Feb 13, 2011)

*Re: Liberty and Honor (re-mixed) Dimension Brass demo*

Excellent Guy. That's the best I've heard from that collection. Nice writing of course. The only thing that jumped out at me was when the trumpets go from unison to thirds and both have a very buzzy attack which seemed to give them away as samples. Can you tweak that a bit? So maybe one has the buzz and the other doesn't? I'm just wondering if it's possible to fix that because that would eliminate the only really obvious flaw in the mockup.

Great work!


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## Alex Temple (Feb 13, 2011)

*Re: Liberty and Honor (re-mixed) Dimension Brass demo*

Good work here. The mixing and programming sounds so much better than it did before and really lets us appreciate the composition itself more. I agree with what Allegra was saying about how the mix can effectively bring a composition to life as it has done here. I think this is the best Dimension Brass demo out there right now.

The only thing that stuck out to me was the trumpet part at around 1:15. The attacks seem soft for the type of passage you're trying to pull off. Actually I have a hard time trying to imagine how a live player would sound playing this passage legato, as it almost begs a crisper staccato articulation. But in that respect this is a minor compositional choice and as I said before, it's the only thing that sounded off to me.


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 13, 2011)

*Re: Liberty and Honor (re-mixed) Dimension Brass demo*

Thanks Dave and Alex! I believe I addressed both of your issues, maybe you could confirm this. Yes Alex, lol, those few legato notes at 1:15 were bothering the hell out of me.


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 15, 2011)

Just so there's no misunderstanding, DB is not replacing the old brass. Just for fun I added some color, 10%-15% from the previous VSL brass and this is the result:

Fusion between Dimension Brass and older VSL brass libraries

It's really just to show you have many options. Either as a stand alone or combing with trumpet à 3 for example.


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 16, 2011)

Any feedback?


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## jamwerks (Feb 16, 2011)

This performance and mix seems better still than the previous. Great piece and production!!

A question: in order to be able to mix in some Brass I articulations, do you put those in a different instance of VI pro (and on another track)? I’m trying to understand the workflow possibilities. o-[][]-o


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## doubleattack (Feb 16, 2011)

Hello Guy,

first: interesting experiment, thanks for sharing!

To the comparison: my impression is, it get's more bite (beside sometimes it get's dangerous next to phasing or sounding more synthy) but that hasn't no effect of my emotions to your - btw beautiful - brass music. I can conceive what do you aiming for trying out this fusion, but seems - maybe in this case only - it doesn't work in the way do you looking for. At least for my taste.

I prefer the pure dimension brass version and this one sounds really great. Warm and rich sounding brass instruments.
And with your skills in composition and mixing you understand to give them a witchery! 

Even though your experiment is very instructive for me, disabusing how much vsl has improved the available brass instruments with dimension brass.

So thanks again!

Frank


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## Jack Weaver (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm with doubleattack on this one - especially regarding the tpts. With the 'regular' brass it has more balls but is a little phasey.

.


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 16, 2011)

Yep, I hear it, but that's for the long trumpet notes only, it's the only place I doubled the sound, and it was doubled a few times, I can easily adjust that.


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 16, 2011)

Fixed.


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## Jack Weaver (Feb 16, 2011)

What things did you do to it to change it?

.


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 16, 2011)

Very simple, In the original I have the 4 trumpets playing the opening melody. In the crossover version, I used the trumpet à 3 for the top melody replacing the top trumpet part from DB, but for the unison parts, such as the opening, trumpet à 3 + 3 trumpets from DB was too much, or not well balanced, so I removed 2 DB trumpets in those sections. There will be a ton of options to try out between these libraries.


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## Pzy-Clone (Feb 17, 2011)

Hm, listening to both versions now...not so sure the hybrid one really works that well.
The first thing that struck me, was that the initial sustaining notes in the Trumpets practically screams out "samples"...they seem to have a lifeless kinda static quality that is not present in your DB version? 

Also ...there`s other issues in the hybrid version, it does not really sound as a homophonic brass section to my ears, the ensemble patches seems to overpower the sound of the DB, both in terms of size, space and frequency, not really crazy about this blend to be honest. 

The DB version sounds bigger ( more distant) and better balanced, all in all.

But it is rather usefull as a comparison, it actually makes DB come out in a very favourable light, showing that some of the "issues" i have had with the VSL brass is not really the case with the new set, if these demos are to judge by.

As always , ( do we need to mention it at this point, really?) the writing and arrangement is flawless, but the original DB version is certaintly doing it more justice of the 2.


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 17, 2011)

Thanks Psy-clone, you may be right, although I think there are some things to salvage from this experiò ‹   É. ‹   É.% ‹   É.3 ‹   É.B ‹   É55 ‹   É5c ‹   É7„ ‹   É7” ‹   É9ƒ ‹   É9Ÿ ‹   É:` ‹   É:~ ‹   É; ‹   É;« ‹   É=¼ ‹   É>  ‹   ÉHc ‹   ÉH‰ ‹   ÉLË ‹   ÉLö ‹   ÉMê ‹   ÉNN ‹   ÉUP ‹   ÉUþ ‹   ÉZ


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