# Filmmusic.net!!!



## Leandro Gardini (Feb 19, 2008)

Hi all...I´d like some opinions of composers with experience in submiting their wokrs for the jobs in Filmmusic.net???Well, the question is direct...does it really works???
I´ve been there for more than one year submiting lots of my stuff but I´ve never been forwarded...I don´t think my music is that terrible, is it???I´m wondering why nothing works there!!!
Not to say that I´ve never been forwarded, one guy from one licensing company got extremelly interested in my musics...he stated that his company works for Hollywood, but so far, nothing...another licensing one got in contact with me but the pay too litle!!!
So, what you think about the jobs there???they´re fake ones, or my music is the worst ever :? ???


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## homebilly (Feb 20, 2008)

i stopped submitting because there was NEVER any feedback good or bad. at least weith a LOTTO ticket you know if you didn't win. it smells of scam to me so i stopped.


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## David A (Feb 20, 2008)

homebilly @ Wed Feb 20 said:


> i stopped submitting because there was NEVER any feedback good or bad. at least weith a LOTTO ticket you know if you didn't win. it smells of scam to me so i stopped.



HMM...well thats VERY discouraging.....


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## David A (Feb 21, 2008)

And from a fellow Brit? Hmm. Maybe it works the other way round then!

Dave.


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 4, 2008)

There´s currently a lot of jobs that I´ve submited my best works, and???Nothing so far...I really don´t get it :? !!!
I´d like more composers to post their experience with film music!!!


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## redleicester (Mar 5, 2008)

When you have been applying Leo, have you checked if there are any territorial issues? I realised fairly quickly that quite a lot of the jobs were hunting for someone local. I'm in the UK so found I was being passed over without any reaction at all - you may well have the same problem.


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 5, 2008)

redleicester @ Wed Mar 05 said:


> When you have been applying Leo, have you checked if there are any territorial issues? I realised fairly quickly that quite a lot of the jobs were hunting for someone local. I'm in the UK so found I was being passed over without any reaction at all - you may well have the same problem.


Yes I´m aware about that...I don´t submit when there´s any specific area...the fact is that we usually receive an automatic email whn the client listen to our music, but I´m not even receiveing thses emails...well, I don´t want to keep complaining about something, but I´m just trying to understand what´s going on all these months I´ve been there!!!


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## wonshu (Mar 5, 2008)

I think patience is the most important virtue of a filmcomposer...

sorry to say that.

But cold aquisition is one of the hardest things to do ever and in the music business it's next to impossible.

Don't let it get to you!


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## redleicester (Mar 5, 2008)

leogardini @ Wed Mar 05 said:


> redleicester @ Wed Mar 05 said:
> 
> 
> > When you have been applying Leo, have you checked if there are any territorial issues? I realised fairly quickly that quite a lot of the jobs were hunting for someone local. I'm in the UK so found I was being passed over without any reaction at all - you may well have the same problem.
> ...



That's my point leo - if for some reason you dont fit the profile of what they're looking for, they won't even listen to the music...

Oh yes, and patience is indeed what we all have to practice.... :|


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## midphase (Mar 5, 2008)

If you don't get jobs on Filmmusic.net it must mean that you suck!


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## John DeBorde (Mar 5, 2008)

midphase @ Wed Mar 05 said:


> If you don't get jobs on Filmmusic.net it must mean that you suck!



Boy, yeah you just can't take this stuff too seriously. I think they literally get hundreds of submissions for each posting - far too many for them to possibly even review them all.

The few times I've submitted since they have the new feedback system, I think my submission was even looked at only once. Every other time they didn't even bother to check it out. This is a total long shot way of getting a gig. If you ever get a gig thru this it would be a fluke, and certainly not a sustainable way to keep yourself employed.

Developing relationships and nurturing them over the long haul is how you get gigs. Not throwing demos blindly over the fence hoping somebody will hire you. It doesn't hurt to try, but I wouldn't expect much.

good luck!  

john


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 5, 2008)

midphase @ Wed Mar 05 said:


> If you don't get jobs on Filmmusic.net it must mean that you suck!


This is the easyest explanation, but not really the thuth...(edit)!!!


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## John DeBorde (Mar 5, 2008)

leogardini @ Tue Feb 19 said:


> Hi all...I´d like some opinions of composers with experience in submiting their wokrs for the jobs in Filmmusic.net???Well, the question is direct...does it really works???
> I´ve been there for more than one year submiting lots of my stuff but I´ve never been forwarded...I don´t think my music is that terrible, is it???I´m wondering why nothing works there!!!
> Not to say that I´ve never been forwarded, one guy from one licensing company got extremelly interested in my musics...he stated that his company works for Hollywood, but so far, nothing...another licensing one got in contact with me but the pay too litle!!!
> So, what you think about the jobs there???they´re fake ones, or my music is the worst ever :? ???



Replying to your original post, I don't think it's a scam, just an over flooded system. Sounds like you've heard back from two people which is more than I think I've ever heard back from!

I wouldn't take the silence personally, it's just the indifference bred by an over saturated market. It sucks, but it's pretty common too so it's probably best to get used to it.

cheers,
john


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## Stevie (Mar 11, 2008)

i didnt check but im sure one has to pay for being part of the "club of the elite film composers"?
god, you gotta hate the tons of those damn social networks...


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 14, 2008)

Two "music publishers" have got in contact with me this couple of weeks...both of them required me to send them a CD with many of my tracks but when I asked about the contract the first they one simply disappeared, and the second one told me he would send later on...I googled both and nothing!!!
Well, as I said, we are getting somewhere because now I see everyone can be a job poster...and you can´t trust in anyone there...seems there are a lot of fake jobs posters!!!


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## marknortham (Mar 14, 2008)

Hi Everyone -

I wanted to respond to the thread and offer my assistance if anyone has any questions about the Film Music Network (http://www.filmmusic.net), SubmitDIRECT, or any of our services. I've posted our SubmitDIRECT FAQ below - it answers many frequent questions we receive, and I'd be happy to respond here or privately (I'm at mark [at] gmocorp.com) to any questions or comments.

Thanks,

Mark Northam
Film Music Network

Film Music Network
SubmitDIRECT FAQ

Q: What is SubmitDIRECT?
A: It's an automated delivery technology for Film Music Jobs (see http://www.filmmusic.net) that allows those interesting in submitting for job postings to upload their music directly into a special review area that job posters use to listen to submissions and make contact with those they are interested in discussing licensing, hiring, etc with. Submitters can upload music, their website and bio/credits info, etc and reviewers with a single click can directly contact the submitter to learn more about their music or discuss a deal.

Q: What does it cost?
A: $1.99 per track for Film Music Network members, $5.99 per track for non-members. 

Q: Where does the money go?
A: It pays for the development and maintenance of the technology we use to maintain SubmitDIRECT, and pays for the people who we hire to go out and find job opportunities to post.

Q: Do the job posters get any of the money?
A: Absolutely not. The per-track fees go to maintain the system and pay for our job researchers who locate new job listings every week. In essence, it pays for delivery technology, just like you'd pay FedEx or the Post Office to send a CD in the mail.

Q: Does every job you post use SubmitDIRECT?
A: No. It's up to the job poster - while many posters choose to use SubmitDIRECT due to the ease of use and ability for anyone to upload tracks quickly without paying high postage and delivery costs (FedEx, etc), some job posters prefer to receive CDs in the mail, etc.

Q: How many submissions do you get for a job?
A: The average is between 50 and 75. For very popular jobs that either are for "big name" companies or offer a very high rate of pay, the number of submissions can be over 100. Most submissions are from members.

Q: Who listens to the music that is submitted?
A: Unlike other services that employ anonymous "screeners" that decide whether your music is "good enough," our job posters are the only ones who listen to the music you submit. We believe that only those who actually post the job are in the best position to judge the value of the music submitted.

Q: Why do you accept only MP3 files? 
A: Since the intent of the SubmitDIRECT system is to *audition* your music, not provide ready-to-use full resolution master copies, we decided on MP3 as the standard we'd use since it's so easy to create. Job posters also appreciate this as it's the most transportable and compatible cross-platform file standard. Once your music is selected, the job poster will usually request a high quality AIFF or WAV file for actual use.

Q: Suppose somebody steals my music and uses it in a film without my permission?
A: That's rare, given the fact that it would likely be an open-and-shut copyright case that would cost the music user far, far more in penalties and legal fees than it would simply to pay you for a license.

Q: Why can't I use copy protection software on my tracks?
A: Because job posters don't want the hassle of having to download a special plug-in or other type of decoder/decrypter. People are very, very reluctant to download and install anything on their computer that they don't really need.

Q: Is my music being forwarded?
A: We don't listen to and forward music like other services (like TAXI) - the client (music supervisor, filmmaker, music library exec, etc) is the one actually listening to your music and deciding whether they have interest in doing a deal with you. We don't listen to your music, and we don't have any role, we aren't involved, and we don't take any commissions, etc from any deal that you may make with someone who posts a job with us. The deal is completely between you and the person or company hiring you or licensing your music.

Q: Do I have to give up my publishing?
A: Not unless the job poster clearly spells that out in their proposed deal with you. The majority of job postings are for licensing music for film and television, which does not typically entail giving up any publishing interest. Some music libraries who post with us rename your music and use the new name for any placements they generate. In this case, they receive the publisher's share of performance royalties but only for placements they generate. They own no copyright, there is no transfer of copyright, they simply have a license from you to place the music and put themselves down as "publisher" on the film and television cue sheets in order to receive the publisher's peformance royalties from only those placements. You retain your copyright, you retain your publishing for all other usages, period.

Q: I submitted for a job but never got the automatic email that says the job poster listened to my submission. What gives?
A: In most cases, most or all submissions are listened to by the job poster. We've identified some issues with the auto email sending function that can occur when more than one poster are listening to music at the same time. We're upgrading our server array to attempt to solve these problems, which should be complete in about 30 days. We check in with our job posters for all open jobs every week or so to make sure they don't have any questions or issues listening to music. In some cases, however, a job poster will get partially through listening to submissions and find what he or she considers is "the" music for the job, and won't listen to the remainder of the submissions. In our talks with the job posters, however, we find these cases to be relatively rare.

Q: Are your job posters legit?
A: We contact each poster, whether we're reaching out to them or we receive an incoming job posting, in an effort to determine two things: 1) Are they legit? and 2) Is the job posting exploitative of the composer or writer they are looking to hire or the music they are looking to license. We turn down about 50% of the incoming job postings every week because we determine they are either not legit or the job posting is exploitative. You'd be surprised at some of the lousy deals some comapnies want composers to live with!

Q: I'm not happy with the deal that was proposed by one of your job posters who wants to use my music.
A: That's of course your right to decline any deal offered. Different people have different requirements and standards in this industry - it's a diverse group of people! It would be impossible for us to check every deal point on every contract that our job posters might offer composers, hence why any composer should have a competent and experienced music attorney check every contract or license thye are asked to sign.

Q: Are job postings all you do?
A: No, we have a comprehensive package of products and services designed to benefit those who work in the film and television music business. Check out our online store at http://www.filmmusicstore.com for books, guides, directories, and more about the business, and don't forget to get a free subscription to Film Music Weekly at http://www.filmmusicweekly.com and take out a free directory listing in Muse411.com, our online music industry directory.

Q: Somebody told me your company is a scam, Nigerian email scheme, etc!
A: We've been in business for 11 years, and our single goal is to provide job opportunities and open them up to people who may not have otherwise heard about them. Any questions, give us a call! You can reach us at 1-888-910-7888 and feel free to speak to Robyn Young, our customer service manager at ext. 1 or founder Mark Northam at extension 702. You can also email [email protected] to reach Robyn or [email protected] to reach Mark Northam. We welcome all questions, comments and feedback about our products and services.


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## lux (Mar 15, 2008)

Aaahhh, this building relationships thing again....aaahhhh
the nightmare if you live in a place with no local market.

What about targeting? probably hitting the target with your music counts really more than showin off how good are you. Usually people demanding music dont have time to imagine how good you could provide them the music they need on an hipotetical basis. They just watch if youre providing them "now" the music they need or something close. As pointed out i think they receive hundreds submissions.

So my very little experienced suggestion is never get depressed. Continue submitting and produce things with a specific target in mind trying to see out there what products are shown with that specific target label. That should work enough.

Luca


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## marknortham (Mar 15, 2008)

Good point, Luca.

With score composers, close geographical relationships can be important as the composer and director often work together closely for the 5-7 weeks it can take to score a feature length film.

Re: a good match music-wise, that's key too. You'd be amazed at how many people submit stuff to our JobWire listings that are way, way off target for what's being asked for. It usually ends up being a waste of everyone's time, and the job poster isn't exactly left with a warm, fuzzy feeling about that composer. Sometimes if composer submits multiple tracks and the filmmaker listens to the first one and it's way off base, they don't even bother to listen to the rest by that composer and skip on to the next composer's submission(s). 

But the good thing about licensed-in music is that it often doesn't really matter where you live, but it does matter how you build relationships. Even in Los Angeles, most business is done over the phone and internet vs. physical meetings. I know more than a few composers who live far outside the normal "music centers" and make a nice six-figure income doing licensing and writing for libraries.

More and more, it doesn't matter where you live. The quality of your music and your business/personal skills and the ability you have to inspire the confidence of others (like filmmakers and music supervisors) with your approach and your music are really key factors. For instance, composers and songwriters who are knowledgeable about how licensing deals work, what current industry standards are for deal terms and pay ranges, etc. can do well. By the same token, people who don't understand the business side of things and have unrealistic expectations or appear not to understand how deals work are typically avoided at all costs because no filmmaker or music supervisor wants a "problematic" relationship or license deal that over the long term proves to be way more trouble than it's worth.

It's nice to spend time in the studio and write, explore sample libraries, and be creative. Thing is, in order to build a career doing this, you've also got to understand how to build the business relationships that will result in the kind of income that allows you the time to spend doing what you love to do. 

Mark Northam


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## Stevie (Mar 17, 2008)

Hi Mark, 

I'm a bit sceptical about the payment...
Let's say a deal is developing, the composer lives in Europe and the director in the USA. How can the composer be sure he gets the money for his work?
Sending a wav-file is quickly done...

Best,

Stevie


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## marknortham (Mar 18, 2008)

Hi Stevie -

This is of course an issue - once a high quality non-compressed digital audio file is sent, it's out there. It's a big reason why we only accept MP3 files for the submission process with SubmitDIRECT - our submission system is for audition purposes only. This issue is faced by composers whenever a demo is sent, whether it's on CD, online, etc.

I do NOT recommend copy protection software, etc - it only creates a hassle for the client. Instead, it can be helpful to not include full cuts, but include a cut that fades after the main themes, aspects of the piece, etc have been stated. Also, some people prefer to submit montages that include clips of several different compositions. In the end, it's a personal decision you need to make balancing your business concerns and your marketing objectives.

Once a deal is in the works, the copyright law is pretty open-and-shut about using music in a film or television show without the appropriate sync and master licenses in place. (I say this as a non-attorney) A filmmaker would have to be a fool to use music without a license, as he'd likely be facing far greater legal penalties for infringement than he would if he simply negotiated a license with the composer/writer. What's more, film distribution companies, networks and other music users for their own protection require certificates of authorship for all music used in the film, so if a filmmaker was going to try and rip off a composer, he'd have to prepare phony documentation as well. Plus, the last thing a filmmaker would want is you calling up their distribution company to let them know they have no legal right to distribute your music with the film as there is no deal in place. Talk about a deal-killer...

And of course, never send a high quality digital audio file without a signed license or deal document in place. Speaking of payment issues, another thing that can be helpful if you do enough licensing work with smaller indie filmmakers, etc is to get set up to take credit cards (Mastercard and Visa) for your business - lots of indie filmmakers finance their films on credit cards, and you'd be surprised at the tiny number of composers who are set up to accept credit cards. It can create a strong reason for a filmmaker in this situation to do business with you, and removes the issue of "waiting for the check to come". Once they want to do a licensing deal with you, get the signed document and their credit card no, charge their card, and send the final audio file(s) upon successful charge of their card. Instant marketing advantage.

Are their hazards in sending out demos? Of course. But in the end, I have to believe that the more people hear your music, the more chances that you will discover opportunities that your music is a great fit for, and success (hopefully!) grows from those kinds of opportunities. 

Best,

Mark Northam


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## homebilly (Mar 18, 2008)

my gripe is a simple one. 

if i am required to pay to submit then i expect at least a thank you but no thanks email. whether the client gets throught the list or not. i have paid and deserve an answer. i am not expecting an explanation of why not just that you received my cue(s) and thank you for your submission. this is the least one can ask for EVEN when one DOESN"T pay. it is called being professional. just like showing up on time!

Mark, this should be a requirement that the client must treat the submitters like professionals and not cattle.

until this happens i will not waste my time or money!
i expect to be treated like a professional!! 
BECAUSE I AM A PROFESSIONAL!

ron meza


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## rgames (Mar 25, 2008)

marknortham @ Sat Mar 15 said:


> Hi Everyone -
> 
> Q: I submitted for a job but never got the automatic email that says the job poster listened to my submission. What gives?
> A: In most cases, most or all submissions are listened to by the job poster.
> ...



Hi Mark,

Thanks for the replies. Of the 15 or so tracks I've submitted I only recall one or two notifications that the poster actually listened to the track. I've never received any follow-ons. I hope you're making good use of my $90 .

I've had much better luck getting responses to craigslist or mandy.com ads, and they're free, so I must admit that I'm skeptical of filmmusic.net's utility. I don't see how filmmusic.net is any more or less a crapshoot than those services. Can you explain?

Also, can you provide stats on how many of the job posters actually wind up using music submitted through filmmusic.net? Perhaps you can use my $90 to pay someone to collect that information!!!

And why not charge the job posters? They're the ones with the money...!

Best,

rgames


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## homebilly (Mar 25, 2008)

my point remains the same. 

if i am paying then i deserve a response!

this is the difference between Mandy & Craigslist. there i expect to be treated like a cow in a cattle call but if i am dropping $$$ then i expect something for my money. is that really too much to ask?

i want to think that it is legit but the fact that there is no structure makes me think that it is not in our best interest that it is a pay service. paying for what i ask?

make the production pay for it and throw us the bone.


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 26, 2008)

ETM Dude @ Tue Mar 25 said:


> The simple fact is whether its filmmusic.net, craigslist, mandy or any other site, these posters get literally hundreds of replies... can they listen to all or even a fraction of that? No, they are just as busy as we are, if not more so if they are trying to finish a film.
> 
> Some people may get work from these site, but it is definitely a crapshoot.
> 
> Simple experiment... post an ad on one of these sites as a film maker and see how many replies you get, you'll be surprised at the amount. It's also a great way to gauge the competition


I don´t believe in that...if I´m really a established professional (like it says in most of the jobs posts) I´d spend as much time as I need to make my best choice!!!
Also, a lot of the jobs posted are from publishers looking for new high quality music, so, they have to have time to listen to many tracks daily...it´s part of their job!!!
To me, defetively their lack of time is not any reason for not listening to all the musics submited!!!


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## Leandro Gardini (Apr 1, 2008)

It seems this topic is dead, and I got no answer about my question :roll: !!!


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## homebilly (Apr 1, 2008)

it kind of feels like when i submit. NO ANSWER




oh, that'll be $3 please


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## rJames (Apr 1, 2008)

Leo, I think your answer is here. redleicester has gotten work from it. Have you followed up with him?

I'd PM him and ask about how he submits?

I don't know the system there but maybe your work history is important and redleicester has a good resume.

Maybe he responds in a way that draws attention to his submission.

Maybe he's responding with one cue or with 2 or with a demo reel as well.

As we've discussed before, its all about hitting the nail on the head. There are too many submissions for a client to say, "he writes good, so I'll see if he can write something like this."

You need to figure out what people are paying for and shoot for that target.

Get out of your composers hat and think about what makes money. They need music for reality TV shows. Watch and listen to the circumstances and the type of cue that works.

They need music for station breaks, TV show promos (comedy, reality, talk show, news, movies of all types). what do those 15 or 30 second spots sound like?

which cue makes the most money? Ones that play over and over again. One local spot on TV won't net you much money.

You've got to figure out where the market is, see what currently is used, see what works, figure out how to do it better, figure out who is producing these spots, find out how to contact them.

Filmmusic.net, while authentic, has very bad odds. But it is up to you to figure out how to improve those odds by having the correct response to the spec.

Here's an idea. Post one of the ads that you've responded to in a new thread and ask people how well you've hit the mark. Or how you could improve your response.


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 27, 2016)

Any updates?


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