# Daw controller with faders for a composer



## Mikko Heininen

Hi! Pleased to meet you all fellow composers, this is my first post the VI forums 

I'm looking for recommendations for a good daw controller with both faders and rotary knobs to use when composing. I would use faders to write expression and dynamics automations on Kontakt etc, and knobs for controlling soft synths and so forth

Nektar p1 seems like a viable option, I could even consider the p6 although I've read mixed reviews about the keybed..

Any thoughts? Thanks!!


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## Jaap

The BCF2000 from Behringer is a solid thing. I use it already for many years and still working like a charm.


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## Mikko Heininen

Thanks Jaap! Will check that out


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## TheNorseman

Dude, I got so much crap for loving that Behringer X-touch on the Andy Sneap forum because some of them said it was "ugly". I think that thing looks sexy, very useful, and extremely price competative. It has both channel strips and motorized faders.


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## tack

I don't own the BCF2000 but played with it briefly. Ok, sure, I find it a bit ugly too, but it has some very good length faders and, as a small bonus, if you need something nearby to bludgeon someone to death it would make a fine choice.

I myself needed something low profile (as it sits in front of my MIDI keyboard and I need to avoid rubbing my arm against whatever might be there) so I went with the Icon Platform-M. It won't win any aesthetics awards either, but the faders have a generous throw (about 115mm), and are motorized and touch sensitive. I don't use the encoders much (having only programmed 3 of them) but the faders have been very reliable for me. The configuration software is still Windows only however, and that is obviously a deal breaker for many people. (I wrote more about it here.)

The Nektar P1 looks sexy (I think), but those faders sure do seem quite anemic. I couldn't imagine myself using them for controlling CCs, which is why I went a different route.


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## Saxer

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/faderctrl-order-now.58734/


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## Ethos

I use an Avid Artist Control and Artist Mix with Cubase. Those units in combination with Cubase Quick Controls allow me to use the faders for any CC. I have CC1, 11, 2, etc... Programmed and can "play" the automated faders while composing. I'm very happy with the solution. I'd be happy to give more details if interested.


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## Mikko Heininen

Ethos said:


> I use an Avid Artist Control and Artist Mix with Cubase. Those units in combination with Cubase Quick Controls allow me to use the faders for any CC. I have CC1, 11, 2, etc... Programmed and can "play" the automated faders while composing. I'm very happy with the solution. I'd be happy to give more details if interested.




Ok cool! Would the Artist Control work with Logic too?


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## babylonwaves

Mikko Heininen said:


> Ok cool! Would the Artist Control work with Logic too?


yep


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## synthpunk

The Faderctrl Project mentioned above is highly recommended. If you need something with more features the Behringer X touch Compact is pretty solid.
https://m.music-group.com/Categories/Behringer/Computer-Audio/Desktop-Controllers/X-TOUCH-COMPACT/p/P0B3L


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## stonzthro

Mikko Heininen said:


> Ok cool! Would the Artist Control work with Logic too?


While the Avid controllers can control audio channels in Logic, I don't think you can them to control MIDI CCs (in Logic) - at least I've never been able to figure it out. It does work with Cubase in this way, however.


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## Mikko Heininen

Ok

Has anyone checked the platform M by Icon?


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## TheNorseman

Mikko Heininen said:


> Ok
> 
> Has anyone checked the platform M by Icon?



I just looked at it. Looks legit as long as you would not need channel strips. In your case, I'm assuming you're mostly looking for something to control CCs so it would work just fine.


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## Mikko Heininen

Agree! I wrote them an email


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## tack

Mikko Heininen said:


> Has anyone checked the platform M by Icon?


My post was actually about the Platform M, but I typoed it as Platform X.


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## synthpunk

Btw, nice to meet you as well Mikko and welcome to the Forum I'm sure you'll find it helpful here.


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## URL

Is it possible to use Avid Artist mix without Artist control to control cc in CB9?


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## Øivind

+1 for the FaderCTRL.


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## TheNorseman

oivind_rosvold said:


> +1 for the FaderCTRL.



Yeah it sounds to me that he is actually looking for something like the FaderCTRL. At first it says DAW control, but from what he describes he's mostly looking for CC control


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## Tiko

Terve Mikko! 

I recommend having the keyboard and sliders/knobs separate. I use the FaderCTRL others mentioned for expression and also for parameters of soft synths like Diva. Absolutely love it.


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## Mikko Heininen

synthpunk said:


> Btw, nice to meet you as well Mikko and welcome to the Forum I'm sure you'll find it helpful here.


 Thanks!


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## Mikko Heininen

TheNorseman said:


> Yeah it sounds to me that he is actually looking for something like the FaderCTRL. At first it says DAW control, but from what he describes he's mostly looking for CC control


 Yes that's exactly what I'm looking for!


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## Mikko Heininen

Tiko said:


> Terve Mikko!
> 
> I recommend having the keyboard and sliders/knobs separate. I use the FaderCTRL others mentioned for expression and also for parameters of soft synths like Diva. Absolutely love it.


That's my idea too. Thanks all for the recommendations


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## synthpunk

You can also pick up a Korg Nanokontrol for about $60 USD which makes a great controller for your external synths and misc control.



Mikko Heininen said:


> That's my idea too. Thanks all for the recommendations


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## Bear Market

I have to give a shout out to the JL Cooper FaderMaster (https://www.jlcooper.com/_php/product.php?prod=fmp). Sturdy and highly customizable with 8 100mm faders. It is a bit pricy, but if you're lucky you can find a preowned one on ebay. I managed to get my hands on one for USD 250.

There's also the Kenton Control Freak and the Peavey PC-1600, but they might be more difficult to get your hands on. But I have seen them appear on ebay from time to time (especially the PC-1600). Not the flashiest or prettiest perhaps, but they get the job done well in my experience.


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## Markus Kohlprath

Don't overlook the possibility of using an ipad with lemur. In terms of customize ability unbeatable I would say. But no physical faders. Something I got used to pretty fast. Can be very precise, takes not much real estate on the desk and can be put anywhere.


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## synthpunk

Peavey PC-1600 is available on eBay quite often. There are a couple different versions but they're all built very well like a tank and can be updated to the last version Rom (also available on eBay at times). Just keep in mind that the 16 faders are not full 100 mm size.

Should also be noted in this thread that the JL Cooper and Kenton's are no longer being made.



Bear Market said:


> I have to give a shout out to the JL Cooper FaderMaster (https://www.jlcooper.com/_php/product.php?prod=fmp). Sturdy and highly customizable with 8 100mm faders. It is a bit pricy, but if you're lucky you can find a preowned one on ebay. I managed to get my hands on one for USD 250.
> 
> There's also the Kenton Control Freak and the Peavey PC-1600, but they might be more difficult to get your hands on. But I have seen them appear on ebay from time to time (especially the PC-1600). Not the flashiest or prettiest perhaps, but they get the job done well in my experience.


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## Jeremy Spencer

Mikko, the P1 is an excellent choice. I have the Nektar LX88+ which is basically a P1 integrated into an 88-key controller. I personally love the Nektar stuff, and it works well with Logic and Cubase. There are many other good recommendations in this thread as well.

I tried a Novation controller as well, but wasn't a fan of the Automap software that it uses.


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## Christof

Wolfie2112 said:


> Mikko, the P1 is an excellent choice. I have the Nektar LX88+ which is basically a P1 integrated into an 88-key controller. I personally love the Nektar stuff, and it works well with Logic and Cubase. There are many other good recommendations in this thread as well.
> 
> I tried a Novation controller as well, but wasn't a fan of the Automap software that it uses.


Exactly the same here, I used Novation and switched to the P1.Best choice so far!


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## Mikko Heininen

Christof said:


> Exactly the same here, I used Novation and switched to the P1.Best choice so far!


Awesome. Although have been warming up to the JL Cooper or the faderCTRL though. How would you describe the P1 faders? Good enough for writing expression lines on strings etc?


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## Jeremy Spencer

Mikko Heininen said:


> Awesome. Although have been warming up to the JL Cooper or the faderCTRL though. How would you describe the P1 faders? Good enough for writing expression lines on strings etc?



Yes, they are smooth. You can assign any slider/knob you want within Logic's Smart Controls. I assign a knob for expression on the nektar.

https://www.logicprohelp.com/assign-midi-controller-knobs-plugin-logic-pro/


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## Mikko Heininen

You don't think the range is too short?


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## Christof

Mikko Heininen said:


> You don't think the range is too short?


No, I work every day with it, range is okay.


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## higgs

+ 1 FaderCTRL. No frills, just nice faders, in a nice enclosure, made by a nice man.


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## higgs

Also worthy of mention are some of the older LIVID products like the OHM-RGB which can be picked up for a decent price on Reverb.com or eBay. It's got 8 sliders, a bunch of twisty knobs, and 64 binary pads. The pads make the unit take up quite a bit of space and are pretty much useless so far in my work. But, I'm still pondering the possibilities.

Also _also_, the Peavey PC1600 deserves honorable mention.

I want twisty knobs on the next FaderCTRL - assuming there is another version in the future.


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## FriFlo

Mikko Heininen said:


> You don't think the range is too short?


The range of midi CC is 128 steps and due to the midi protocol that gets thinned out (jumps values) during fast movement anyway ...
So, from my experience, a 60mm fader is more than enough (for my taste even better) than a 100mm fader. For automation, there are more steps, so a 100mm fader might make a difference if, it sends 14bit midi. The rest depends on technique: if you rest your arm on a surface, like most people use the modulation wheel of their keyboard, it is better to have a shorter fader to cover the whole rangewithout having to lift the hand. It also makes quick movements easier.
A 100mm fader forces you to move the arm which is in my opinion inferior for virtuoso midi CC performance.


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## MatFluor

I build my own - mainly because either other Faderboxes are too big for my taste, or (in case of the FaderCtrl, which I would buy in a heartbeat) just too expensive. The price is totally fair, but the shipping and taxes are unbearable  Else I would have one already.


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## KV626

...No love for the Faderport 8?


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## Maximvs

Korg Nanokontrol 2 does the job for me: http://www.korg.com/us/products/computergear/nanokontrol2


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## synthpunk

good for mixing, but needs to be hacked for Midi CC I think ?



KV626 said:


> ...No love for the Faderport 8?


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## Josh Richman

synthpunk said:


> good for mixing, but needs to be hacked for Midi CC I think ?


I was so excited when I bought one, only to discover I can't do any Midi with it. Quickly sold it. Just bought a Behringer X-Touch Compact (That should do Midi !!)


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## Vik

This one is definitely worth checking out:
http://www.nektartech.com/panorama-p1.html


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## Mikko Heininen

Ended up ordering the FADERCTRL. Can't wait!


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

Well here are couple of options to control midi cc with hardware controllers..
1. Berhinger bcf2000 or berhinger x touch compact
2. Novation xl control and zero control sl
3. Nectar p1
4. Korg nano studio and nano kontrol
5. Fader control that is custom made you can order it her on this forum
6. Fader master jl cooper’s(way too costly)
7.Modular control system( its new made by company called pallette i think and they are quite portable too)
8. Livid does provide custom build controllers
9. Ipad with apps like touch osc or lemur
10. Expression pedal if you have mod wheel on your keyboard then you can use expression for cc11 ( though i feel you want to control it with your fingers anyways...)

I am not sure about icon’s m control as its more of a daw controller and dont know if it can be used as a midi controller also people here are saying its mapping software is window only, you need to do some research on it...

Also avid’s artist control are strictly meant for mixing stuff and they are not wise choice for only controlling midi information considering there price and ease of use and i dont think you can control midi cc with them either apart from cubase...

Anyways good luck with your composing... cheers!!!


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## URL

have anyone tried this one?

http://iconproaudio.com/product/platform-x-plus/


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

No idea but it would be great if somebody can put some light on icon controllers for controlling midi cc info...


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## URL

According to Sound Service GmbH, Icon X + works with, for example, Cb9 and can handle CC via Mackie protocol.
And it is a nice price.

Answer from Sound Service regarding win 10/CB9.
Platform X+ is compatible with Windows 10 and Cubase 9 and operates with standard MIDI CC values and uses Mackie Control Protocol. The included iMap software allows custom remapping of MIDI functions in addition to what is possible within Cubase.


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## DynamicK

I bought an *Icon Platform M* not long ago. Was not impressed with the build quality or QC...several of the push buttons had different knobs, which resulted in them not sending any data. Returned it to the retailer. Bought a *Behringer X-Touch Compact *which is streets ahead in build quality. If you buy an Icon, make sure it's returnable. Both suffer from no support for their editors if you are using a Mac.


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## URL

the Icon M,X+ is a updated version...maybe this new version is better....?


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## khollister

The Behringer BCF-2000 is discontinued as is (I believe) the original JL Cooper Fademaster. There is a newer Fademaster Pro, but it is $999(!).


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## mc_deli

Akai MPD series. 60mm faders. Really good software editor.


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## AllanH

I got the Akai MPD 232 6+ months ago, and I really like it
http://www.akaipro.com/products/pad-controllers/mpd-232

Faders are smooth and there are three banks of 8. There are also pots and buttons. Everything programmable with software that works.

Drum pads are excellent and very sensitive. Also fully programmable. 4 banks.

I have not gotten the transport section to work with Sonar, but I haven't spent much time on it.


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## Josh Richman

synthpunk said:


> good for mixing, but needs to be hacked for Midi CC I think ?



Exactly! Looked nice, build quality was good (metal surface). But, no midi so I returned it.


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## synthpunk

They just came out with a Faderport 16 today, still no mention of Midi CC's, odd.



Josh Richman said:


> Exactly! Looked nice, build quality was good (metal surface). But, no midi so I returned it.


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## Josh Richman

Josh Richman said:


> Exactly! Looked nice, build quality was good (metal surface). But, no midi so I returned it.



*Behringer X-Touch Compact*
*
Go for about $300. Pretty good price point.*


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## synthpunk

yep, thats a good one, does Midi CC mode as well although I'm not sure if the motorized function can be turned off ?



Josh Richman said:


> *Behringer X-Touch Compact
> 
> Go for about $300. Pretty good price point.*


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

Unfortunately xtouch compact is not available in india...


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## s_bettinzana

Hello!
I want to inform you that my company (www.deviltechnologies.com) is updating one of our SW application (DFader).
After the update, you will be able to send MIDIcc from any HUI or Mackie-Control-Protocol compatible controller. In other words, it will act as a HUI/Mackie_Control - MIDIcc smart bridge.
DFader does more, but this new feature could be of interest for you.

Silvano


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

Hi silvano, thanks for sharing pls let me know once that’s available it would be awesome, cheers!!!


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## s_bettinzana

We already have a beta on our web-site for Windows. This only support one fader (it was developed for a beta tester with a FaderPort).
Our guys are working on an update for both Windows and OS-X which supports many faders (till 32) with an extensive presets system. Usually, they are very fast, days ... not weeks!


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

Good luck, waiting for it to happen...


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## Garlu

s_bettinzana said:


> Hello!
> I want to inform you that my company (www.deviltechnologies.com) is updating one of our SW application (DFader).
> After the update, you will be able to send MIDIcc from any HUI or Mackie-Control-Protocol compatible controller. In other words, it will act as a HUI/Mackie_Control - MIDIcc smart bridge.
> DFader does more, but this new feature could be of interest for you.
> 
> Silvano



Does it mean it would be compatible with the newer Presonus Faderport 16 turned into a CC controller? 
Oh my... if that's the case... wallet, get ready!


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## s_bettinzana

Garlu said:


> Does it mean it would be compatible with the newer Presonus Faderport 16 turned into a CC controller?
> Oh my... if that's the case... wallet, get ready!



Yes, absolutely!
You will also be able to use one/more buttons in your Faderport16 to immediately switch between the pass-through mode and the MIDIcc mode. So, at the press of one button, the Faderport16 will instantly switch between a HUI/Mackie_Control controller (for control of the DAW mixer) and a MIDIcc sender.

There also is the DFader Control mode (check the current DFader documentation/description on our Web-Site).

There will also be a preset recall/editing system to create/recall many user_defined presets (at the press of some buttons on the Faderport or mouse clicks): for example a MIDIcc mapping on the faders for Spitfire_Symph... and a preset for CSS ... or a mix between DFader_Control_Mode and MIDIcc ...

It will also write the MIDIcc# (or a user defined string) on the HUI/Mackie_Control channel strip displays.

Maybe that it will be available next week ... or a bit later to write a good User Guide (we aren't English mothertongue).


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## synthpunk

Sounds like this is going to help allot of people out!



s_bettinzana said:


> Yes, absolutely!
> You will also be able to use one/more buttons in your Faderport16 to immediately switch between the pass-through mode and the MIDIcc mode. So, at the press of one button, the Faderport16 will instantly switch between a HUI/Mackie_Control controller (for control of the DAW mixer) and a MIDIcc sender.
> 
> There also is the DFader Control mode (check the current DFader documentation/description on our Web-Site).
> 
> There will also be a preset recall/editing system to create/recall many user_defined presets (at the press of some buttons on the Faderport or mouse clicks): for example a MIDIcc mapping on the faders for Spitfire_Symph... and a preset for CSS ... or a mix between DFader_Control_Mode and MIDIcc ...
> 
> It will also write the MIDIcc# (or a user defined string) on the HUI/Mackie_Control channel strip displays.
> 
> Maybe that it will be available next week ... or a bit later to write a good User Guide (we aren't English mothertongue).


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## URL

is is possible to turn off motorized function for Faderport 16 in cc mode?


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## s_bettinzana

URL said:


> is is possible to turn off motorized function for Faderport 16 in cc mode?



If you speak about Faderport16 only, I don't think that it has a native MIDIcc mode.

If you speak about Faderport16 + DFader, the answer is YES, obviously; I couldn't imagine a MIDIcc mode with a motor driven fader.


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

DFader requires a dongle??? I dont think i can avail it in india, apart from it I already own 6 dongles, it would be painful to add one more, will have to think...


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## s_bettinzana

In my company they know that a lot of potential users don't like it, but, yes, it needs an iLok dongle (iLok2 or iLok3).
Do you have 6 dongles? Why? iLok? eLicenser? Other? Why so many? It is a bit off-topic, but I am curious.


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## URL

s_bettinzana said:


> If you speak about Faderport16 only, I don't think that it has a native MIDIcc mode.
> 
> If you speak about Faderport16 + DFader, the answer is YES, obviously; I couldn't imagine a MIDIcc mode with a motor driven fader.



How does Dfader disconnect them, motorized faders?


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## s_bettinzana

URL said:


> How does Dfader disconnect them, motorized faders?



OK ... thank you for the question ...

DFader is a piece of SW with virtual in and out MIDI ports.
The MIDI data from/to the motor_fader_controller and the MIDI data from/to the DAW are "captured", interpreted and "regenerated" by DFader. In other words it is a bi-directional smart bridge between the fader_controller and the DAW.
The MIDI messages are "translated" by DFader according to the needed behaviour, including the delete of motor_move messages coming from the DAW to the fader_controller.
If is a sort of smart "shell" around the fader_controller.

Hope this helps!


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## URL

... that means that the motorized faders because they are "touch sensitive" already have a function that turns them off when drawing data that you then use for the MIDI cc data function - if I now understand everything right ...?

edit:Ok I understand now-would be nice to see a youtube video about this


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## s_bettinzana

URL said:


> ... that means that the motorized faders because they are "touch sensitive" already have a function that turns them off when drawing data that you then use for the MIDI cc data function - if I now understand everything right ...?



Now I don't know if I correctly understand you; anyway, what you describe (using the touch_sense to switch the motor off) is the trick used when you are drawing "regular automation". With "regular automation" I mean, for example, the automation of the virtual mixer fader of your DAW.

In the case of MIDIcc, you don't have a feedback from the DAW regarding previously written data in a MIDI part (there are many discussions about this around the forums!). So, you neither have a MIDIcc data stream useful to move the physical fader. For this reason, when DFader is in MIDIcc mode, it switch the motor off, independently of any detected touch_sense signal.

It is not easy to be explained if you don't know the HUI or Mackie_Control data stream, but I am more than glad to help you.



URL said:


> edit:Ok I understand now-would be nice to see a youtube video about this



OK!


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## URL

I use Cubase 9.30/win10 Creative update suppose dfader is compatible with all daw?


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## s_bettinzana

URL said:


> I use Cubase 9.30/win10 Creative update suppose dfader is compatible with all daw?



Yes, I have (and enjoy) Cubase too.
It is DAW-agnostic.

For Logic users, they should know how to set the "Environment". We can help, but in past we have seen that the Logic Environment is not very well-known. It is a very powerful but almost unknown tool, unfortunately.


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## URL

Thanks for your answer!


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## whinecellar

Man, I have tried a LOT of controllers - I've never found one I truly loved that did everything I want. Finally just grabbed a Behringer X-Touch Compact, and I gotta say, it's pretty stellar - and darn near perfect for what we all do. I thought for $299 it would feel a bit cheesy, but not at all - it's built like a piece of pro studio hardware, IMO, Faders feel far better/smoother than the Mackies used to, and at least as good or better than the Avids. When in CC mode, the motors are bypassed, so it works great.

And my word, you can assign CCs, notes, etc. to both moving and simply touching the faders. 39 assignable buttons, 16 knobs (each with separate turn and push assignments), all x2 layers - quite a beast of a controller! Already in love with the resolution of 100mm faders that feel silky smooth for all the CC rides I do.

Only complaint is that it's pretty huge - far bigger than it should be. I love the form factor of the Icon Platform M, but the tons of QC reports scared me away. Still, for $700 or so, I'll grab one of these for MIDI CCs only along with the full X-Touch for Mackie Control. Finally real tactile control for a reasonable price!


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## URL

...anyone tried Asparion D400T + D400F, a little pricey, but looks nice and compact?


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

not sure of this one, not even available here in india, but I am willing to buy livid ds1, its rock solid metal chasis, with lots of encoders and great buttery faders without any resistance, its a great device to control midi cc, I don't need motorized faders and berhinger is crappy, looks really bad....


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## tmhuud

Really? Have you tried a Behringer? I've been using the BCF2000 for years and I wouldn't trade it for anything. If it ever crashed out on me I would go for what Jim's gone for, the X-Touch.


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

Yeah, it does the job well, one of my friend use it, you have to admit it looks crappy, and its only good for midi cc controlling as automated faders sucks, they are way too noisy and look at its size man it looks like an analog mixer from jupiter.. no matter what its something that i cant ever like lol(no offence berhinger users/fans) its just my personal thing.


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## URL

Icon Platform X*+ *is a updated version, compact and metal casing but its hard to find users...?


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## Pietro

Behringer X-Touch extender anyone?

- Piotr


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## khollister

Pietro said:


> Behringer X-Touch extender anyone?
> 
> - Piotr



I was under the impression that the Extender doesn't have a MIDI CC mode


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## synthpunk

X-Touch Compact has Midi CC mode.



khollister said:


> I was under the impression that the Extender doesn't have a MIDI CC mode


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## s_bettinzana

Hello!
The new promised DFader version wih the MIDIcc feature is available on the deviltechnologies.com web-site.


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## RRBE Sound

Hello! :D

I know it might be a little off question, but I wonder if you, who have the Behringer X-Touch can the size dimensions of it? 

I can not find this information...?


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## whinecellar

RRBE Sound said:


> Hello! :D
> 
> I know it might be a little off question, but I wonder if you, who have the Behringer X-Touch can the size dimensions of it?
> 
> I can not find this information...?



15.5" x 12" x 3.5 not including faders & knobs. This is for X-Touch Compact.


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## RRBE Sound

whinecellar said:


> 15.5" x 12" x 3.5 not including faders & knobs. This is for X-Touch Compact.


Thank you! ! :D 

That is inches i assume?


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## R. Soul

RRBE Sound said:


> Thank you! ! :D
> 
> That is inches i assume?


Yeah, the quotation mark " means inches.

Nice to see another dane around here 

I have the BFC2000. I wish it wasn't so big. The FaderCTRL is great size wise, I just find it rather pricey for such a basic unit.


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## whinecellar

Yes indeed, inches. Sorry I didn't specify! And yeah, the X-Touch is huge unfortunately - but man, it's a quality piece of gear. Behringer has come a LONG way since acquiring Midas - these are some of the smoothest faders I've ever felt at any price! And really, you can make it do just about anything!


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## RRBE Sound

R. Soul said:


> Yeah, the quotation mark " means inches.
> 
> Nice to see another dane around here
> 
> I have the BFC2000. I wish it wasn't so big. The FaderCTRL is great size wise, I just find it rather pricey for such a basic unit.




hehe, well hello or goddag!  
Yea, that one is big.




whinecellar said:


> Yes indeed, inches. Sorry I didn't specify! And yeah, the X-Touch is huge unfortunately - but man, it's a quality piece of gear. Behringer has come a LONG way since acquiring Midas - these are some of the smoothest faders I've ever felt at any price! And really, you can make it do just about anything!



no worries.
do you know who ''big'' it is compared to the BFC2000? - Is it smaller? 

- I need the mixer to be at my keybord/mouse platform, under my desk, which have a space of 9 CM from te plate to the bottom of the desk. (if this makes sense). Therefore the Avid Artist mixer would be great or the Icon Platform M+. But the Avid is very expensive and I have noticed that some Logic users have problems with the Platform m+ ...? 

The Behringer seems to have been build for Logic. -


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