# BBO: L & M goes strings!



## Ben (Jul 1, 2020)

It's time for more Big Bang Orchestra, and this time it's all about strings:

BBO Lyra: High Strings (14 first violins, 12 second violins, 8 violas - playing unison and in octaves)
BBO Musca: Low Strings (6 cellos, 4 basses - playing in octaves)
The articulation list is similar to the last BBO installments, containing Bold and Agile Shorts, Sustained with light and strong vibrato, espressivo, real legatos, different dynamics, tremolo, trills, fast repetitions, glissandos minor/major up/down, pizzicto.

Easy to use with a beautiful sound, you will enjoy working with these libraries. As always with many mic-positions and mixer presets included, so you can start quickly and customize the sound with your own mix.


And here is the best part: You get these installments for €65 each (introductory prices, regular: € 95)

Listen to the demos!


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## Ben (Jul 1, 2020)

And here a demo by Guy Bacos:


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## holywilly (Jul 1, 2020)

Are Sforzato and sforzatissimo the real or stack of staccato and sustain like the one in Synchron Strings?


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## Ben (Jul 1, 2020)

holywilly said:


> Are Sforzato and sforzatissimo the real or stack of staccato and sustain like the one in Synchron Strings?


All real, and all new recordings


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## holywilly (Jul 1, 2020)

Beautiful double pack of strings! And also expecting Synchron Strings update


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## jamwerks (Jul 1, 2020)

Sounds great! Love those videos done in that way! Will be' interesting to hear what combos they do for WW's! How about an à4 Contrebassons?


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## stfciu (Jul 1, 2020)

Is Big Bang suitable only for "Big Bang" orchestration or can it achieve some more subtle tone as well?


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## Ben (Jul 1, 2020)

stfciu said:


> Is Big Bang suitable only for "Big Bang" orchestration or can it achieve some more subtle tone as well?


Yes, it can. We recorded multiple velocity layer, even the very soft ones.
Try it out yourself: get the free BBO and the Brass Packs 30 days demo from the product sites. I think you will be impressed!


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## Bighill (Jul 1, 2020)

Are all the articulation sampled both unison and in octaves?


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## Ben (Jul 1, 2020)

Bighill said:


> Are all the articulation sampled both unison and in octaves?


Low Strings => In octaves
High Strings (3 sections) => Octave + Unison. You can't toggle between these.


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## Salorom (Jul 1, 2020)

From what I can hear, the €190 Lyra and Musca bundle sounds MUCH fuller and realistic than the €1100 full Synchron Strings I (let's compare products with the same amount of mic positions). They also come with true sforzato, glissando, proper swells, while none of them can be found in the latter.

As far as I'm concerned, SS1's only actual advantage is the access to separate sections, which in my opinion doesn't justify such a huge price gap at all. 

As it stands, I don't see myself staying much longer on board the Synchron train if the cheaper "simplified" BBO installments end up better sounding and easier to use than their "more professional", much more expensive counterparts.

We're still waiting for dedicated MIDI loops for Synchron Percussion, when BBO Dorado was released with loads of them. This is becoming silly...


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## Ben (Jul 1, 2020)

@Salorom Don't worry, we are still working on Synchron Libraries as well! Stay tuned, we have some interesting news soon


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## Salorom (Jul 1, 2020)

Let's see, then. Many of us have long been asking for a decent Synchron Strings I overhaul. This new installment feels like VSL have learnt what needed to be done when sampling live strings. In all honesty, the Lyra and Musca release not coming along with a substantial update to SS1 leaves a bitter taste.


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## Sunny Schramm (Jul 1, 2020)

Ben said:


> @Salorom Don't worry, we are still working on Synchron Libraries as well! Stay tuned, we have some interesting news soon



Great  Its always a good feeling when more expensive libraries still get Updates over years. Makes them feel much more worth a good decision and feels thankful from the developers side for buying their stuff 🥰


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## jamwerks (Jul 1, 2020)

Love the sound but don't usually buy octave libraries. 

If Synchron strings I & II would sound like this (and same arts), I'd be in !


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## Bighill (Jul 1, 2020)

jamwerks said:


> Love the sound but don't usually buy octave libraries.
> 
> If Synchron strings I & II would sound like this (and same arts), I'd be in !


To me, libraries sampled in octaves are totally unusable.


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## AndyP (Jul 1, 2020)

jamwerks said:


> Love the sound but don't usually buy octave libraries.
> 
> If Synchron strings I & II would sound like this (and same arts), I'd be in !


Yeah, I was hoping for sections, at least. Although I like the sound of that, you're still limited.


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## Symfoniq (Jul 1, 2020)

jamwerks said:


> Love the sound but don't usually buy octave libraries.
> 
> If Synchron strings I & II would sound like this (and same arts), I'd be in !



Lyra and Musca sound the way I hoped Synchron Strings would sound. Wish I'd spent the money on these instead.


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 1, 2020)

Ben said:


> Low Strings => In octaves
> High Strings (3 sections) => Octave + Unison. You can't toggle between these.


Got Lyra and Musca. I was about to ask you that exact question, can you turn on and off the octave like with Hercules?


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## muziksculp (Jul 1, 2020)

Symfoniq said:


> Lyra and Musca sound the way I hoped Synchron Strings would sound. Wish I'd spent the money on these instead.



Maybe VSL will re-do Synchron Strings to sound like Lyra and Musca then all of us that were unhappy with Synchron Strings I will be very happy. I think VSL should value the feedback here, since they seem to capture the right sound of strings that many like when they produced Lyra and Musca, So, it should be easy to re-apply this formula to Synchron Strings I. 

VSL has a lot more experience now than when they recorded Synchron String I, which was their first Synchron Library.


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## Ben (Jul 1, 2020)

I was sceptical at first as well, but I've playing around with this library now for quite some time and it is easy to use and very much usable. Give it a try!


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## muziksculp (Jul 1, 2020)

jamwerks said:


> Love the sound but don't usually buy octave libraries.
> 
> If Synchron strings I & II would sound like this (and same arts), I'd be in !



Totally Agree ! Hopefully VSL is seriously taking notes.


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## jaketanner (Jul 1, 2020)

Ben said:


> It's time for more Big Bang Orchestra, and this time it's all about strings:
> 
> BBO Lyra: High Strings (14 first violins, 12 second violins, 8 violas - playing unison and in octaves)
> BBO Musca: Low Strings (6 cellos, 4 basses - playing in octaves)
> ...



Are the strings the same as Synchron? I mean similar sound wise...will Synchron strings work here with BBO, or are they a different sound all together? Thanks.


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## jaketanner (Jul 1, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Totally Agree ! Hopefully VSL is seriously taking notes.


I just asked Ben if Synchron Strings 1 is pretty much the same. I would rather not keep buying new strings just to go with new libraries...they're all on Synchron Stage, so I am hoping that I can get a similar sound...but I do love using unisons..I write a lot of unison, but do occasionally split out harmonies, so not sure how this will fair.


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## SupremeFist (Jul 1, 2020)

I'm curious as to why VSL went for usable separate sections for brass but only ensemble patches for strings in this series.


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## jaketanner (Jul 1, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I'm curious as to why VSL went for usable separate sections for brass but only ensemble patches for strings in this series.


only for Horns and trumpets...bones and tuba are together


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## jaketanner (Jul 1, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I'm curious as to why VSL went for usable separate sections for brass but only ensemble patches for strings in this series.


I am guessing since strings generally play in unison most of the time, brass doesn't and needs to be a able to build a chord. Just a guess...but I would have loved separated strings.


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## SupremeFist (Jul 1, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I am guessing since strings generally play in unison most of the time, brass doesn't and needs to be a able to build a chord. Just a guess...but I would have loved separated strings.


It just seems odd in that if it's meant to be a sketching library, you could have just had high brass and low brass like in an Albion, but in that case the projected total price seems very high. But with these strings that you can't actually orchestrate properly with, it's no longer a competitor for something like BBCSO Pro.


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## Rob (Jul 1, 2020)

I'm also one of those hoping to have unisons instead of octaves... useless for me this way, but like the tone


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## Rob (Jul 1, 2020)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> Differences in Synchron Strings I and Lyra/Musca:
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


not unisons though, only octaves... that's the thing


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## Ben (Jul 1, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Are the strings the same as Synchron? I mean similar sound wise...will Synchron strings work here with BBO, or are they a different sound all together? Thanks.


Yes, you can use them together. They blend perfectly imo (just tried it out  ).



SupremeFist said:


> I'm curious as to why VSL went for usable separate sections for brass but only ensemble patches for strings in this series.


1. Sound. You will not get the same sound if you record the sections seperatly.
2. The idea of BBO: Quick and instant. Just load the section and play. No need orchestrate everything in score during your creative process.
3. Cost. It's a BBO installment, and we try to keep each installment below 100€. You get libraries without compromises in quality for just ~ €65 (after intro: ~ € 95).



SupremeFist said:


> It just seems odd in that if it's meant to be a sketching library, you could have just had high brass and low brass like in an Albion, but in that case the projected total price seems very high. But with these strings that you can't actually orchestrate properly with, it's no longer a competitor for something like BBCSO Pro.


It's not primarly designed as sketching tool, nor as orchestration tool for the notation first approach imo.
You can use these libraries for these use-cases, but the main strengths are the sound and work-speed to achieve good sounding music.
But you can also use them to thicken up or complement the sound of your other libraries, be it Synchron, SYNCHRON-ized, VI or libraries from our colleagues.
And then there are the BBO installments with sounds and effects you will not get in any other libraries.

We try to design our libraries to complement each other, so you get something new and useful, even if it is a new string library


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## ptram (Jul 1, 2020)

Salorom said:


> From what I can hear, the €190 Lyra and Musca bundle sounds MUCH fuller


In Lyra we are listening to three sections playing in octaves. It would be surprising if they weren't fuller than a single section playing alone.

These BBO libraries are all devoted to espressive articulations. I wouldn't compare them (even if I admit to like them more than Synchron Strings, but this is a different matter...).

Paolo


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## Ben (Jul 1, 2020)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> 2 velocity layers (maybe 3, I have to double check)


3 velocity layers 



ptram said:


> I wouldn't compare them


Like I've said, they complement each other perfectly, so you will get something new even if you have the Synchron Strings I, or if you get these and think about getting the Synchron Strings I


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## Ben (Jul 1, 2020)

And here is a demo + tutorial by @Stephen Limbaugh "Jurassic Park":


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 1, 2020)

I think strings are the section where ensemble recordings make the most sense. I always found it really baffling that so many libraries had combined brass patches. Strings have a rather homogenous timbre from high to low and blend very well, while the brass family is a weird bunch where every instrument is its own animal. I thought it was a good move by OT to separate the brass in MA but go with combos for strings, and VSL went for a similar approach with BBO.

I don't have Musca yet, but I managed to play around with Lyra a bit today and am pretty excited about the sound. They really nailed it here. Might be VSLs best sounding string recordings so far!


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## ptram (Jul 1, 2020)

And then, violas are finally playing the same part of the first violins! Always! This is a violist's revenge!

Paolo


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## jaketanner (Jul 1, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> It just seems odd in that if it's meant to be a sketching library, you could have just had high brass and low brass like in an Albion, but in that case the projected total price seems very high. But with these strings that you can't actually orchestrate properly with, it's no longer a competitor for something like BBCSO Pro.


I wish it would be...I am guessing winds are next. hopefully they split them out like the brass at least.


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## jaketanner (Jul 1, 2020)

ptram said:


> And then, violas are finally playing the same part of the first violins! Always! This is a violist's revenge!
> 
> Paolo


It would be great if there is a cut off range per instrument, this way we can limit the viola from stepping too much on the violin.


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## jaketanner (Jul 1, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I think strings are the section where ensemble recordings make the most sense. I always found it really baffling that so many libraries had combined brass patches. Strings have a rather homogenous timbre from high to low and blend very well, while the brass family is a weird bunch where every instrument is its own animal. I thought it was a good move by OT to separate the brass in MA but go with combos for strings, and VSL went for a similar approach with BBO.
> 
> I don't have Musca yet, but I managed to play around with Lyra a bit today and am pretty excited about the sound. They really nailed it here. Might be VSLs best sounding string recordings so far!


are there demos?


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## jaketanner (Jul 1, 2020)

Ben said:


> Yes, you can use them together. They blend perfectly imo (just tried it out  ).


awesome!


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 1, 2020)

Ben said:


> Yes, you can use them together. They blend perfectly imo (just tried it out  ).
> 
> 
> 1. Sound. You will not get the same sound if you record the sections seperatly.
> ...


Kopernikus, Jupiter, Hercules, Lyra and Musca are a nice bunch of programs. Now I just need the BBO woodwinds and this is a cool sketching orchestra that can also definitely be used to final mixes too.


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## Steve Martin (Jul 1, 2020)

Ben said:


> And here is a demo + tutorial by @Stephen Limbaugh "Jurassic Park":



Those strings in octaves on the melody sound so awesome!! Thanks Stephen for the Tutorial and VSL for the new libraries


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## Salorom (Jul 2, 2020)

ptram said:


> In Lyra we are listening to three sections playing in octaves. It would be surprising if they weren't fuller than a single section playing alone.



Oh, really? 



ptram said:


> Even if I admit to like them more than Synchron Strings, but this is a different matter...



See, we agree


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## José Herring (Jul 2, 2020)

Hmmmm....tempting.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 2, 2020)

@Ben Do you plan to release demo versions, too?


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## AndyP (Jul 2, 2020)

Once I jumped on the train... there must be strings. Even if they are "only" in octaves.
For the sections, I have the other synchronized versions.
I'm convinced by the sound, so let's go for it.


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## Oliver (Jul 2, 2020)

Just downloaded it and its gorgeous!
very playable, great sound, many possibilities to tweak. very inspring.

Best modules so far!
just to say that the other ones are great too!
highly recommended...


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## AndyP (Jul 2, 2020)

I felt in love with the legato Marcato ... 🎻


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## Oliver (Jul 2, 2020)

AndyP said:


> I felt in love with the legato Marcato ... 🎻


oh yes! Very nice...


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## SlHarder (Jul 2, 2020)

Hey Ben!

I also encourage VSL to release demos of L and M.

When BBO first released I ponied up $29 for the dongle. Downloaded the Free and liked it. Got busy, missed the sale on Andromeda, and until H,J,and K caught my ears, didn't bite on B ... G because the vid walkthrus didn't sell me.

But I'm a brass guy, so I perked up for H,J,K. But walkthrus and vi comments left me on the fence. Then demos launched, I downloaded and 3 hrs later bought H,J,K with no doubts or hesitation. Those were my first VSL library purchases.

So help me get off the fence on L and M.

Fwiw ...


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## jaketanner (Jul 2, 2020)

definitely need demo licenses...especially for those of us who have Synchron Strings.


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## Symfoniq (Jul 2, 2020)

SlHarder said:


> Hey Ben!
> 
> I also encourage VSL to release demos of L and M.
> 
> ...



Agreed.

I've been a bit gun-shy since Synchron Strings, but being able to demo Hercules was helpful, and I plan to buy it. The videos for Musca and Lyra sound great, but a downloadable demo might seal the deal.


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## jaketanner (Jul 2, 2020)

Symfoniq said:


> I've been a bit gun-shy since Synchron Strings


Do you mean you don't like them? I have them also.


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## Symfoniq (Jul 2, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Do you mean you don't like them? I have them also.



I'm not a fan.

But based on the videos, Musca and Lyra sound _very_ good. More of this, please, VSL (and a downloadable demo)!


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## jaketanner (Jul 2, 2020)

Symfoniq said:


> I'm not a fan.
> 
> But based on the videos, Musca and Lyra sound _very_ good. More of this, please, VSL (and a downloadable demo)!


That's a bit disappointing to hear. I haven't used them in a production yet, but am planning on it soon...so far I thought the sound was quite nice. What issues do you have with it?


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## Symfoniq (Jul 2, 2020)

Since this is a commercial thread about different products (products that seem very promising IMO), I'll just say there are other threads here on VI Control about Synchron Strings, and I agree with most of the issues raised there.


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## Ben (Jul 2, 2020)

Off-Topic: imo most of the issues were solved with the updates for SY Strings I, especially the Cantabile update with new articulations and reworked legatos. So if you initially did not like them, you should re-visit them imo.

Regarding demo: we'll see what we can do about it 
(don't forget that if you buy in our store you can return the library within 14 days, if you don't like it)


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## Mark Schmieder (Jul 2, 2020)

Lyra - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Lyra is a constellation named after a vulture or eagle carrying a lyre, which is a gentle treble string instrument in the range of violin and viola.









Musca - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Musca is a "southern" hemisphere constellation, making it appropriate for notes "down under" on bass and cello. 

It's obvious that a lot of thought goes into naming these expansions.


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## SomeGuy (Jul 2, 2020)

Ben said:


> Regarding demo: we'll see what we can do about it
> (don't forget that if you buy in our store you can return the library within 14 days, if you don't like it)



I loved the fact that I could demo the brass in my own studio and A/B against my other libraries to see how they hold up against what I already use. In fact, that is was ultimately sold me on them! I was truly hoping you were going to offer demos of all products going forward, and hopefully past BBO's as well, as thats the only way to truly know what you can do with a library is if you can get your own hands on it.

I do understand its probably not feasible for the larger products, but I really hope you are able to offer demo periods for at least the BBO & smart orchestra lines.


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## Ben (Jul 2, 2020)

Don't worry, like I said we will see what can be done. The sale is lasting for this entire month, so no need to rush anything 

(please keep in mind that we have to monitor our download infrastructure, and our paying customers should get the best experience possible, including decend download speeds)


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## SlHarder (Jul 2, 2020)

Ben said:


> Don't worry, like I said we will see what can be done. The sale is lasting for this entire month, so no need to rush anything
> 
> (please keep in mind that we have to monitor our download infrastructure, and our paying customers should get the best experience possible, including decend download speeds)


 
I totally understand giving priority to the experience of paying customers.

.


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## Salorom (Jul 3, 2020)

Ben said:


> Off-Topic: imo most of the issues were solved with the updates for SY Strings I, especially the Cantabile update with new articulations and reworked legatos. So if you initially did not like them, you should re-visit them imo.


I’m sorry to be that guy again, but I obviously strongly disagree. Your posting this also makes it rather clear that we won’t see any improvement to Synchron Strings I soon, which is too bad and eventually detrimental to the Synchron line.

The cantabile update is a welcomed addition but this library is still not where it should be in my opinion. I’m waiting for these updates:

Proper sforzato
Proper portamento
Proper crescendo/diminuendo
Agile “cantabile” legato
Loose pizzicato, staccato, spiccato

In short, new recordings that bring Synchron Strings I closer to the organic tone and feel of their Synchron FX Strings counterparts, which really sound lovely.


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## Ben (Jul 3, 2020)

@Salorom 1. Wrong thread, 2. we still don't talk about future plans, so I will not comment this.


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## Salorom (Jul 3, 2020)

Ben said:


> @Salorom 1. Wrong thread, 2. we still don't talk about future plans, so I will not comment this.


1. True, I only replied to something you wrote, though. The release of a strings library that was recorded on the Synchron stage and sounds so different from a previous installment is bound to trigger comments.

2. Right 



Ben said:


> Yes, you can use them together. They blend perfectly imo (just tried it out  ).


May I also respond to this, as I respectfully disagree and I think it's an important one. I do not own Lyra or Musca, but given their tone and spatial characteristics, I have strong doubts about this, not in a practical scenario. For layering sure why not, it all comes down to personal tastes. But using them both separately in the same project and make it so that none stands out? I'm eager to hear a piece where I can't 100% tell what's what, because their general features, perspective and sound are so unalike. I would bet they actually blend perfectly with Synchron FX Strings, though.

And that is a major concern: VSL to me is usually synonym of consistency. That's why I love this company. Synchron Strings I definitely does not feel consistent with regards to other strings installments of the same Synchron family. So you'd have to choose one colour/library over the other(s), which is a shame given the fact they all come from the same soundstage.

Say the rest of the Synchron strings development eventually heads towards the general (very pleasing) sound of Lyra, Musca and Synchron FX Strings, what good will Synchron Strings I be in my palette if every time I use it, it screams 'not from around here'?

Enough with the off-topic rant, I do wish VSL all the best with their Synchron endeavour. Pretty please, just make it right.


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## Geoff Moore (Jul 3, 2020)

These sound great! I've never bought a VSL product before, a couple of questions:

Do I understand correctly that if I wanted to use these on my laptop and desktop I'd need to buy two copies of each library and two dongles from you? And there's no way of avoiding a dongle and just having the license on my machine like with iLok?

On the website it says these are 'Starter Editions' - sorry if I missed it somewhere, but what exactly does that mean?


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## Ben (Jul 3, 2020)

Geoff Moore said:


> Do I understand correctly that if I wanted to use these on my laptop and desktop I'd need to buy two copies of each library and two dongles from you?


If you want to use them at the exact same time yes. If you just switch between machines simply unplug the eLicenser and plug it in the other machine and you are good to go. You can install these products on all your machines, but it will only work on the machine where the eLicenser is currently plugged in.



Geoff Moore said:


> And there's no way of avoiding a dongle and just having the license on my machine like with iLok?


No. And we don't support iLok. You need an eLicenser USB key from Steinberg (Arturia and our ViennaKey are exactly the same). Feel free to get the one that is the cheapest / eassiest to get for you. Or if you own Cubase/Nuendo you probably already have one of these.



Geoff Moore said:


> On the website it says these are 'Starter Editions' - sorry if I missed it somewhere, but what exactly does that mean?


I've looked it up, and this seems to be a labeling mistake in the price box. (the free BBO was initially in the "Starter Editions" section, but with the release of the next BBO installments we created a new product category.)


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## Geoff Moore (Jul 3, 2020)

Thanks for the clarification Ben, I was hoping I'd misunderstood on the first point. One more dongle is fine


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## maestro2be (Jul 3, 2020)

Ben, can you please clear up what exactly this translates to in terms of what the violins 1 & 2 and violas are doing in reference to one another?

" *14 first violins, 12 second violins, 8 violas playing in unison and octaves* ".

Is it basically Violins 1 playing the highest note, Violins 2 an octave lower than Violins 1 and then Violas an octave lower than Violins 2?

Thanks,

M


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## jaketanner (Jul 3, 2020)

maestro2be said:


> Ben, can you please clear up what exactly this translates to in terms of what the violins 1 & 2 and violas are doing in reference to one another?
> 
> " *14 first violins, 12 second violins, 8 violas playing in unison and octaves* ".
> 
> ...


There are overlaps if I understood correctly also. There are points where the strings do overlap, so you will get vin 1,2 AND viola...depending on what notes. @Ben , what I would love to see for a future update is the ability to adjust volume between the ensemble and also sect note range so that we can limit the overlap when not needed.  Look forward to the demo license though. it really does help seal the deal.


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## AndyP (Jul 3, 2020)

I am very pleased with the strings. The sound is really very very good. 
The low shorts could be a bit crisper, aggressive, harsh for my taste! But the low longs are a real feast for the ears.

The strings were the missing element and now BBO makes more sense for me. 
At the moment I'm using all my VSL libraries together and the Synchron I strings fit very well. Sustains and shorts for layering or for the quieter parts.
It all complements each other perfectly. 

A little bit of Medusa (and Dorido of course) percussion and the whole thing sounds great. 
I like it altogether better than another library that also has BB... in the name.
The dynamic range and the transitions are perfect.

I also rarely used the VSL choirs (... those from the Synchron-ized Library), today they rocked. Great sound.

The low memory consumption is worth mentioning so that it is a real pleasure to work with it on my MacBook.
Now I'm curious about the Woodwinds, although I have to say that the synchronized Woodwinds are enough.

Well done VSL, let the games begin.


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## Ben (Jul 5, 2020)

Gothic Waltz - by Cristiano Alberghini:


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## holywilly (Jul 5, 2020)

Are we expecting video walkthrough from Paul?


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## Ben (Jul 5, 2020)

holywilly said:


> Are we expecting video walkthrough from Paul?


I'll ask Paul.
But please have a little patience. We are currently swamped in work, especially testing the next updates for our players and VEP, in parallel to preparations for future products


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## Ben (Jul 5, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> @Ben , what I would love to see for a future update is the ability to adjust volume between the ensemble and also sect note range so that we can limit the overlap when not needed.


Not 100% sure, but I did all kinds of crazy stuff with these libraries now, and I'm pretty sure it's always Vio1 + Vio 2 unison + Via one octave lower. You'll get 3 octaves + a second with the high strings, and 3.5 octaves with the low strings.
These strings were recorded in this configuration, so it is not possible to change this. But this is also the reason why these strings are so easy to use without much tweaking, as well as the lush sound.


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 5, 2020)

Salorom said:


> Oh, really?
> 
> 
> 
> See, we agree


Got Lyra and Musca. They certainly have a useable sound.


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## Ben (Jul 5, 2020)

So, like I already mentioned I spend quite some time with these strings this weekend, and because of your questions I've especially looked into combining SY Strings I with BBO L+M.
I have created a custom mix for each section of the Synchron Strings that will blend with the sound of the BBOs, and imo it works perfectly (not only for layering, which already works great).

If you are interested I can share this preset with you. Just keep in mind this is nothing official and until now I've just created a matching mix for the "Surround to Stereo Classic Room Mix", my personal favorite (Full Library of SY Strings I required). But it should not be that hard to adapt the mix to other presets or for Standard Library only.


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## Salorom (Jul 5, 2020)

NoOneKnowsAnything said:


> Got Lyra and Musca. They certainly have a useable sound.


Right, so... it seems we are in agreement?


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 5, 2020)

@Ben , next question  Between these new ones and SY 1, why the change in approach? Are they different players, mics, techniques? Since the stage is the same I would assume that the string sound themselves would be the same. Also, was this BBO string library ONLY recorded this way or did they also record full separate articulations so as to create SY 2 from the same recordings/sound?


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## Ben (Jul 5, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Between these new ones and SY 1, why the change in approach?


To match the sound of the other BBO installments.


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## jaketanner (Jul 5, 2020)

Ben said:


> To match the sound of the other BBO installments.


makes sense...then guessing that future string libraries will have the BBO sound as a true string library.


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## Salorom (Jul 5, 2020)

Ben said:


> To match the sound of the other BBO installments.


I’ll be that guy, again... doesn’t this contradict your statement that the BBO strings and Synchron Strings I blend well?

Which also begs the question: why not have all Synchron installments share the same sound? Seems very counterproductive from a customer perspective.


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## Ben (Jul 5, 2020)

Salorom said:


> I’ll be that guy, again... doesn’t this contradict your statement that the BBO strings and Synchron Strings I blend well?


No. Different focus does not contradict that you can use these together.



Salorom said:


> why not have all Synchron instalments share the same sound? Seems very counterproductive from a customer perspective.


BBO is it's own series. You can use all Synchron and SYNCHRON-ized libraries together without tweaking, and you can use all BBO installments without tweaking. If you want to use them together chances are good that it will just fit together.
Sometimes in more exposed parts you may want to tweak the sound a little bit, depending if you want to go for the BBO sound or the Synchron sound.


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## jaketanner (Jul 5, 2020)

Ben said:


> depending if you want to go for the BBO sound or the Synchron sound


I think it's that the Synchron Sound SHOULD have been the BBO sound.  Seems that it's so much better and SY1 is only a few years old...I know they serve different purposes, but seems like it's now just a transitional library. I still like it of course, but now I'm wanting SY 1 to sound like what the BBO sounds like...LOL


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## rrichard63 (Jul 5, 2020)

Ben said:


> ... it's always Vio1 + Vio 2 unison + Via one octave lower ...


How is this different from a 26 member first violin section with an 8 member viola section? (With apologies for the newbie question.)


----------



## Salorom (Jul 5, 2020)

Ben said:


> No. Different focus does not contradict that you can use these together.
> 
> 
> BBO is it's own series. You can use all Synchron and SYNCHRON-ized libraries together without tweaking, and you can use all BBO installments without tweaking. If you want to use them together chances are good that it will just fit together.
> Sometimes in more exposed parts you may want to tweak the sound a little bit, depending if you want to go for the BBO sound or the Synchron sound.


I’m very sorry but I find this rhetoric inconclusive and even fallacious.

Synchron FX Strings do not sound like Synchron Strings I—at all. They do sound like BBO strings—a lot.

I fail to understand the reasoning behind the idea that the BBO range and the Synchron one should ever be designed not to share the same sound signature.

The competition came up with the same concept (think Spitifire or OT for instance), where the ‘professional’ orchestral libraries and their ‘simplified’ counterparts blend perfectly, which obviously makes total sense. I can’t imagine VSL would attempt anything different, all the more so when those sections playing in unison do indeed allow to produce more realistic results in some specific cases.


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## ptram (Jul 5, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> How is this different from a 26 member first violin section with an 8 member viola section?


Second violins play much worse! (just kidding!)

Paolo


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 5, 2020)

You guys are really making it hard for yourselves.


----------



## Ben (Jul 5, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> How is this different from a 26 member first violin section with an 8 member viola section? (With apologies for the newbie question.)


Seating in the orchestra.



Salorom said:


> The competition came up with the same concept (think Spitifire or OT for instance), where the ‘professional’ orchestral libraries and their ‘simplified’ counterparts blend perfectly, which obviously makes total sense.


They do. That's what I'm telling all the time... Sorry, but I don't get this discussion. I start feeling like a parrot 🦜


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## Ben (Jul 5, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I still like it of course, but now I'm wanting SY 1 to sound like what the BBO sounds like...LOL


Here you go: Download and extract the zip-file I've attached and copy the "SYNCHRON Collection" folder into the Synchron Player's preset folder.





In my example the preset folder is located at the path in the player's config + "VSL\Vienna Synchron Player\Presets"
Full Path for me => "C:\Users\USERNAME\Documents\VSL\Vienna Synchron Player\Presets". Copy the folder into this folder.












Or simply open the included VEP7 project 

---

I included two presets for each section, Cassic RoomMix (for Standard Library) and Stereo to Surround (for Full Library). The VEP project is defaulted to the Surround to Stero Mix.

---

What have I changed:
- EQ of all mics (except the "Back" mic, which I didn't use in any preset)
- Mix of the mics and Reverb
- Humanization


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## jaketanner (Jul 5, 2020)

Ben said:


> Here you go: Download and extract the zip-file I've attached and copy the "SYNCHRON Collection" folder into the Synchron Player's preset folder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Ben...sounds nice. Very similar to a preset that I have customized already, but a bit smoother. Although I don't have the full version, so Im missing those extra two mics...wondering how much of a difference they make? Just hard to justify the cost just for a few mics...maybe they'll be on sale at some point. But at the very least, I have a different color string to use.. Thanks


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## rrichard63 (Jul 5, 2020)

Ben said:


> Seating in the orchestra.


I thought VSL's seating arrangement puts the 2nd violins right next to the 1st violins (with violas on the opposite side of the stage). In that case, when playing the same note they would sound like one section. I must be missing something here.


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## Ben (Jul 5, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> I thought VSL's seating arrangement puts the 2nd violins right next to the 1st violins (with violas on the opposite side of the stage). In that case, when playing the same note they would sound like one section. N'est ce pas?


You can say so, it's like when 1st and 2nd violins are playing in unison.

To get a better idea of the Synchron Stage, take a deep breath, sit back and enjoy these recordings. This should give you a good idea of the Stage and its sound. I can't tell if the same seating was used while recording the samples, but it probably is pretty close.


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## Ben (Jul 5, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Thanks Ben...sounds nice. Very similar to a preset that I have customized already, but a bit smoother. Although I don't have the full version, so Im missing those extra two mics...wondering how much of a difference they make? Just hard to justify the cost just for a few mics...maybe they'll be on sale at some point. But at the very least, I have a different color string to use.. Thanks


Great to hear that you like it! The additional mics add space to the sound. It's like adding an additional dimension to the sound.
That's the reason I always prefere the surround to stereo mixes (these are available for all BBO libraries btw). These are ~doubling the number of voices, but for me it's woth it.


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## jaketanner (Jul 5, 2020)

Ben said:


> Great to hear that you like it! The additional mics add space to the sound. It's like adding an additional dimension to the sound.
> That's the reason I always prefere the surround to stereo mixes (these are available for all BBO libraries btw). These are ~doubling the number of voices, but for me it's woth it.


Will consider an upgrade in the future. Thanks.


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## ptram (Jul 6, 2020)

Ben said:


> To get a better idea of the Synchron Stage, take a deep breath, sit back and enjoy these recordings.


It's incredible the amount of talent one can find in big cities with a long musical tradition, like Vienna (actually, the town were many traditions have grown).

As we can see, the Synchron Orchestra includes a lot of young musicians. They play and sound like the best professionals with a long career. It's absolutely stunning.

Paolo


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2020)

I heard the walkthrough is currently in work, so stay tuned


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## jamwerks (Jul 6, 2020)

I'd be interested in some big string sections like HZ Strings or Ark I (no octaves) in a future module. I really like your choice and implementation of arts.


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## typewriter (Jul 6, 2020)

Ben said:


> I'll ask Paul.
> But please have a little patience. We are currently swamped in work, especially testing the next updates for our players and VEP, in parallel to preparations for future products



Do we get VST3 support in VEP? This was promised long ago.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2020)

typewriter said:


> Do we get VST3 support in VEP? This was promised long ago.


Wrong thread... 

Quick answer: Still on the TODO list, sorry. More questions related to this please in a VEP thread. Thanks!


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## Geoff Moore (Jul 6, 2020)

A couple more questions, if I may. Are the product page audio demos 100% BBO? Particularly wondering if any strings are from other libraries, or if I'd get everything I hear in Lyra and Musca.

Also are the demos fairly representative of the 'out of the box' sound with skilful MIDI work, or have they been EQ'd, reverbed etc?


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## SlHarder (Jul 6, 2020)

Geoff Moore said:


> A couple more questions, if I may. Are the product page audio demos 100% BBO? Particularly wondering if any strings are from other libraries, or if I'd get everything I hear in Lyra and Musca.
> 
> Also are the demos fairly representative of the 'out of the box' sound with skilful MIDI work, or have they been EQ'd, reverbed etc?




These questions are why I'm hoping that an independent user walkthru gets posted. Those details are usually mentioned in the posting notes.


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## Simeon (Jul 6, 2020)

SlHarder said:


> These questions are why I'm hoping that an independent user walkthru gets posted. Those details are usually mentioned in the posting notes.



My space probe is slowly approaching the Lyra and Musca outposts and should be making contact soon. Once I have entered a safe orbital pattern, I will once again establish communications to share my findings. Stay tuned..... end transmission.


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## Ben (Jul 6, 2020)

Geoff Moore said:


> A couple more questions, if I may. Are the product page audio demos 100% BBO? Particularly wondering if any strings are from other libraries, or if I'd get everything I hear in Lyra and Musca.


You can click the "i" next to the demos and often you will see which libraries were used.








Geoff Moore said:


> Also are the demos fairly representative of the 'out of the box' sound with skilful MIDI work, or have they been EQ'd, reverbed etc?


Can't say what FX were used in the demos, but it's pretty much the out-of-box sound. Load the instrumente and switch to the mixer preset you like most and you are good to go.


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## SlHarder (Jul 6, 2020)

Simeon said:


> My space probe is slowly approaching the Lyra and Musca outposts and should be making contact soon. Once I have entered a safe orbital pattern, I will once again establish communications to share my findings. Stay tuned..... end transmission.



Hopefully you will have lower latency than JPL gets when communicating with Mars rover. Playing stuff in would be a b*tch.

Hit a note, come back 20 minutes later, now what was the next note?


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## Ben (Jul 8, 2020)

The Walkthrough is finally here, by Carl King:



(Hint: If you open it on YouTube you will get timestamps, so you can jump between the articulation you are interested in)


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## jaketanner (Jul 8, 2020)

@Ben ...are the articulations in Lyra and Musca all authentic, or are some like marcato and SFZ replicated by layering as in SY 1? Thanks.


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## Ben (Jul 8, 2020)

@jaketanner Like you can hear in the walkthrough, all real recordings, jsut like with the BBO brass libraries.


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## jaketanner (Jul 8, 2020)

Ben said:


> @jaketanner Like you can hear in the walkthrough, all real recordings, jsut like with the BBO brass libraries.


Ok cool. Thanks


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## Salorom (Jul 8, 2020)

Ben said:


> Here you go: Download and extract the zip-file I've attached and copy the "SYNCHRON Collection" folder into the Synchron Player's preset folder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I took the time to download and check your presets, Ben. I replicated a few phrases from Carl King's walkthrough for a fair comparison.

I see you went with a mid boost and a plate reverb. All in all I hear a muddier mix, that still sounds very different from what VSL achieved with Lyra and Musca.


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## Ben (Jul 8, 2020)

@Salorom Thanks for your feedback. Of course it will never sound 100% the same, not only because it was recorded with a different setup, but also because in Lyra and Musca the string-sections are playing together on stage, interacting with each other. You can come close to the sound but never get 100% of it (same goes with the full orchestra BBO installments).

I used FabFilters EQ matching to find the right EQ settings for each mic and tweaked it, volume matched the mics and adapted the reverb-settings. Finally I've re-created the mix as close as possible.
Of course I used a test-setup to A/B the results. In my tests I achieved a similar sound, but I did not have the time to create a short demo until now (will try to create one if I find the time).
If you want to compare it, make sure you set up the Vio1 + Vio 2 in unison + Via playing one octave lower.


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## jaketanner (Jul 8, 2020)

Salorom said:


> I see you went with a mid boost and a plate reverb. All in all I hear a muddier mix, that still sounds very different from what VSL achieved with Lyra and Musca.


I thought similar...much softer, however, it's a different color..so if you look at it as such and not a copy of L&M, then it's easier to accept. But I agree that the overall sound of L&M is way different. I may end up getting them anyway before the intro pricing ends.


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## Salorom (Jul 8, 2020)

Ben said:


> @Salorom Thanks for your feedback. Of course it will never sound 100% the same, not only because it was recorded with a different setup, but also because in Lyra and Musca the string-sections are playing together on stage, interacting with each other. You can come close to the sound but never get 100% of it (same goes with the full orchestra BBO installments).


Sure. Still, I was never able to hear something that came close. At the end of the day, it's all the same feeling as far as I'm concerned. Lyra, Musca, Synchron FX Strings: same lush and gorgeous sound. Synchron Strings I: thin and awkward overall. I could also see in the video that the articulations feel productive in Lyra and Musca, much more so than what can be found in Synchron Strings I. It's a whole, really.



Ben said:


> If you want to compare it, make sure you set up the Vio1 + Vio 2 in unison + Via playing one octave lower.


Yes of course, that's what I did.


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## jaketanner (Jul 8, 2020)

@Ben ..have to ask, in your matching to L&M, what did you do to the samples for the shorts? They sound terrible..totally unusable. Lots of artifacts, was there processing done?


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## jaketanner (Jul 8, 2020)

Salorom said:


> Still, I was never able to hear something that came close


BTW, do you have the full with all mics? I only have the standard, so can't really compare it that closely.


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## Salorom (Jul 8, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> BTW, do you have the full with all mics? I only have the standard, so can't really compare it that closely.


I own the standard version. The other mics will provide dimension and help with the overall sense of space (a fair amount of which can be efficiently replicated with some mixing tricks). They wouldn't make a such huge difference in the tonal balance of the sound.


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## jaketanner (Jul 8, 2020)

Salorom said:


> I own the standard version. The other mics will provide dimension and help with the overall sense of space (a fair amount of which can be efficiently replicated with some mixing tricks). They wouldn't make a such huge difference in the tonal balance of the sound.


Ok, because experimenting with just the close mic and mid mic gives a very different sound. Anyway, I may be getting these before the intro expires.


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## gsilbers (Jul 8, 2020)

Just a thought but hopefully in the future there can be a bundle version and create more like an "orchestra in a box" sort of deal like Audio imperia nucelus or spitfire BBSO core.. similar priced. 
So many galaxys out there... i just want to make it sound like guy bacos... in some paralel universe out there


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## holywilly (Jul 8, 2020)

gorgeous sound of L & M! Really wish this is the recording of separate section instead of unison and octave, as the SY string update :D


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## jaketanner (Jul 8, 2020)

holywilly said:


> gorgeous sound of L & M! Really wish this is the recording of separate section instead of unison and octave, as the SY string update :D


Don’t we all. Maybe this is a “test” to see people’s reaction to the sound and if interest is there, they’d pursue a proper string library with this sound.


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## method1 (Jul 9, 2020)

Just got these and they're great, just a question about the combined L+M patch, the "legato" combined patch doesn't play legato, it seems to be the same as the longs patch. Is this correct?


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## jaketanner (Jul 12, 2020)

method1 said:


> Just got these and they're great, just a question about the combined L+M patch, the "legato" combined patch doesn't play legato, it seems to be the same as the longs patch. Is this correct?


Hi...I am about to get them also, so you're saying that there is a combined low and high patch that is legato, but does NOT play legato? Just an ensemble sustain?


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2020)

L+M Preset legato works for me...
Please be aware that per default the legato mode of this preset is set to polyphonic. You can change that in the Perform tab on the right side, first setting.


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## method1 (Jul 12, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Hi...I am about to get them also, so you're saying that there is a combined low and high patch that is legato, but does NOT play legato? Just an ensemble sustain?



As Ben mentioned, it's set to poly legato. On my first quick playthrough I didn't realise.
I should have come back to the thread to update, sorry guys!


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 12, 2020)

method1 said:


> As Ben mentioned, it's set to poly legato. On my first quick playthrough I didn't realise.
> I should have come back to the thread to update, sorry guys!


saw his reply after...


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## jaketanner (Jul 13, 2020)

Has anyone that bought the strings compared it to Albion One?


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 13, 2020)

IMO they're clearly superior to Albion ONE in every regard.


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## Oliver (Jul 13, 2020)

Much better than Albion!


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 13, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Don’t we all. Maybe this is a “test” to see people’s reaction to the sound and if interest is there, they’d pursue a proper string library with this sound.


I don’t own Synchron Strings so I have no clue what the difference is. I’m


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## star.keys (Jul 13, 2020)

Question to users: Has anyone experienced legato to be in line with the latest industry standard string libraries, or are we still referring to the quality of legato with synchron strings? SY legato reminds of the stone age technology during the era of Yamaha YS200 keyboard strings


----------



## Oliver (Jul 13, 2020)

star.keys said:


> Question to users: Has anyone experienced legato to be in line with the latest industry standard string libraries, or are we still referring to the quality of legato with synchron strings? SY legato reminds of the stone age technology during the era of Yamaha YS200 keyboard strings



i dont know what you mean, i am happy with the Legato in Synchron Strings I and Lyra / Musca


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## star.keys (Jul 13, 2020)

Oliver said:


> i dont know what you mean, i am happy with the Legato in Synchron Strings I and Lyra / Musca


What it probably means is, I won't be happy with Lyra and Misca so will pass... Thanks for your advice


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## Ben (Jul 13, 2020)

star.keys said:


> What it probably means is, I won't be happy with Lyra and Misca so will pass... Thanks for your advice


Or you wait two days, download the demo and try it yourself...


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## star.keys (Jul 13, 2020)

Ben said:


> Or you wait two days, download the demo and try it yourself...


Hey Ben, I would have loved doing that but VSL owners apply discretion when it comes to return policy. They just declined my refund request on account that I tried the product for the second time, which is not a rule stated anywhere in your refund policy. I don't want to mix up this issue with the topic here but VSL has lost my trust and respect now. I'm waiting for the day when a user who doesn't like Synchron strings legato tells me that s/he likes the legato of newer products


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## Ben (Jul 13, 2020)

@star.keys I think you misunderstand. There will be 30 Days demos available in two days, no strings attached. 

Regarding the refund: can you really blame our sales team for refusing a refund the second time you bought exactly the same product? There are not many that offer refund policies, but I don't think there is any software company out there that will refund the same product for the second time...


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## star.keys (Jul 13, 2020)

Ben said:


> @star.keys
> Regarding the refund: can you really blame our sales team for refusing a refund the second time you bought exactly the same product? There are not many that offer refund policies, but I don't think there is any software company out there that will refund the same product for the second time...


Yes, because I wouldn't have bought it unless VSL had the stated policy in place


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## Ben (Jul 13, 2020)

@Rob Oh, I see now what I did... Sorry, pun not intended


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 13, 2020)

@Ben I‘m a bit disappointed, because you are making demo licenses for the string packs available when the brass introductory offers end.

As I‘m not quite sure to get the brass packs (because I‘ve so many VSL products), I really hoped for earlier demos. Pity... If I had liked the strings demo, I would have bought the brass, too, maybe.


----------



## Rob (Jul 13, 2020)

Ben said:


> @Rob Oh, I see now what I did... Sorry, pun not intended


Actually what I found funny was the idea of a customer buying an instrument, find it not satisfying, ask and get a refund, then buy it a second time, ask again for a refund... sounds like a joke


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 13, 2020)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> @Ben I‘m a bit disappointed, because you are making demo licenses for the string packs available when the brass introductory offers end.
> 
> As I‘m not quite sure to get the brass packs (because I‘ve so many VSL products), I really hoped for earlier demos. Pity... If I had liked the strings demo, I would have bought the brass, too, maybe.



I don't quite get the logic - BBO brass demo licenses are available right now and I'm pretty sure they have been for a while now. If you're potentially interested in the brass, why not demo the brass?


----------



## Jack Weaver (Jul 13, 2020)

Definitely becoming a VSL sample library fan again. 

.


----------



## SomeGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

Rob said:


> Actually what I found funny was the idea of a customer buying an instrument, find it not satisfying, ask and get a refund, then buy it a second time, ask again for a refund... sounds like a joke



Well, if they bought synchron strings when it was released for example, VSL have made numerous updates to the product since its launch; many users saying they fixed most of their issues with the original release. So I could see someone repurchasing, only to feel the fixes were not enough And wanting another refund. Or maybe they had a project they started and needed to rebuy the library to finish


----------



## Zero&One (Jul 14, 2020)

Devs offer no demo versions or refunds. Pitchforks out!
Devs offer demo and refunds. Pitchforks out!

I'm starting to understand the real reason devs don't offer either.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 14, 2020)

star.keys said:


> You are right - I changed to a midi controller which offered more flexibility of velocity curve settings which seemed to work better for VSL pianos so I was keen to try again, and hence bought again "to try again", wasn't convinced. VSL NEVER gets on to any of my projects. Not even one project. I buy VSL for fun and personal entertainment and even that's history now.



You kind of sound like the type of person who should move on, but finds an unhealthy enjoyment in not doing so. Especially when they have audience.


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## Rob (Jul 14, 2020)

But it's your problem... made the wrong purchase, seller was kind enough to give your money back, you should be grateful, not complaining.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 14, 2020)

star.keys said:


> It is about my money, so none of your business to tell me to move on



It most certainly is, and your handling of "your money" makes it even more so. Move on brother.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 14, 2020)

star.keys said:


> Very much moved on. My attorneys are all over it now



Oh, I'm sure "they" are. Better call Saul!


----------



## Zero&One (Jul 14, 2020)

star.keys said:


> Very much moved on. My attorneys are all over it now



As you just use these for fun, seems a lot of investment in both time and money to me. When I don’t have fun doing something, I don’t pay to do it again hoping it’ll be fun the second time.


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 14, 2020)

star.keys said:


> Very much moved on. My attorneys are all over it now



I hope very much that you are just shouting your mouth off here, because if you actually have a set of 'attorneys' who think its a good idea for you to rack up legal costs trying to bring a case against a company in a foreign country over a piddling amount of money like this.....

Well - then those 'attorneys' are seriously not acting in your best interests.


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## Rob (Jul 14, 2020)

I believe that the last 15 or so of these posts, not being relevant to the thread, could well disappear...


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## star.keys (Jul 14, 2020)

I did the favor of deleting, this is a waste of time anyway and I'm done with VSL forever, except for recovery of my money which is being taken care of


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## SomeGuy (Jul 14, 2020)

I’ve been really impressed with what vsl have been producing lately, especially the BBO series, and really look forward to demoing the strings! Thank you for being the only company I know to offer demos, and even a return policy!! Other developers should take note, as i thought I had enough brass until I demoed the BBO offerings heard the clarity and depth of these new samples and was sold! Well done VSL!


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## Ben (Jul 15, 2020)

30 days Demos are now available for BBO L and M! Test these strings yourself and decide then if you want to buy them 

BBO Lyra: High Strings (14 first violins, 12 second violins, 8 violas - playing unison and in octaves)
BBO Musca: Low Strings (6 cellos, 4 basses - playing in octaves)


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## Ben (Jul 15, 2020)

The "Jurassic Park Tutorial" series by Stephen Limbaugh is now complete:


----------



## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 15, 2020)

SomeGuy said:


> I’ve been really impressed with what vsl have been producing lately, especially the BBO series, and really look forward to demoing the strings! Thank you for being the only company I know to offer demos, and even a return policy!! Other developers should take note, as i thought I had enough brass until I demoed the BBO offerings heard the clarity and depth of these new samples and was sold! Well done VSL!


Realize it’s probably because their prices are so high. OT Berlin Percussion + Berlin Timpani is around $690 ($420 when on sale or bought with other Berlin instruments), VSL Perc I & II is briefly $916 (and that’s the deep discount intro sale price for only the standard libraries as it’s normally $1,457 for the standard libraries and while both full libraries are currently at $1,724 they normally go for $2,707!!!), CinePerc is often $350 onsale ($699), and Spitfire JB Percussion is often $240 onsale sometimes much lower in a collection ($399).

Bear in mind, VSL does not include marimba, claves, mark tree, bell tree, more than one snare drum, bongos, congas, waterphone, timbales, cowbells, or any ethnic drums other than taikos, and no double stroke rolls.

Now, IMHO I do feel like the VSL taikos are phenomenal (best ever) and the bass drums, toms, mallets, bells, cymbals, gongs, and timpani are all excellent. But that’s a lot of money for so many missing standard nuts and bolts traditional percussion instruments, which I’m assuming get released in a Synchron Perc III or a Synchron World Ethnic Percussion for even more money.

I very much like the Synchron Player but I prefer Spitfire’s UACC implementation inside Kontakt since I don’t like using keyswitches and wish that the UACC popup menu list was included in the new Spitfire Player apps so I could program them more easily and quickly.

I own VSL Perc I & II standard, CinePerc, and Spitfire JB Percussion, which are all good. IMHO I don’t think anyone needs more than one of these percussion libraries. I will be using all of them to get different flavors and tones but that’s a luxury and can’t figure out yet which will be my go to Perc library in most cases. IMHO Air Lyndhurst has the best room tone followed by the soundstage at Sony then farther down the list the sound of the Teldex stage. Although I’m sadly not really a fan of the sound of the Synchron stage the Synchron Percussions do sound excellent.

As far as value goes it’s hard to figure out if the new Synchron Percussions are worth so much more money 💰 than their competitors. 

I don’t regret buying them at all as they are very good, but as much as I can understand why VSL feels it deserves some kind of a premium, the only ones who can truly afford them are the top A-list composers who get all their VI libraries for free by giving VSL and other developers a brief one sentence endorsement. Too many composers make little to no money, so these super wealthy A-list composers who deeply rely on these VI libraries are the ones who should be paying far more than the list price of these libraries as all of us are subsidizing their business. Because so many composers who barely make a living buy these libraries the developers can offer them at sort of attainable prices for the masses but that means super wealthy composers either don’t have to pay that much to buy & use these libraries or again they get them for free and pay nothing. 

This is the rich get richer at play, an unfortunate reality of life. What if the wealthiest composers paid a usage fee based on the budget of the film ie. $100 million production budget means they pay each developer $10,000. There are probably making $1-3 million in creative fees just to do that film so $50,000 in usage fees to 5 VI developers (ie. VSL, Spitfire, OT, Cinesamples, CSS) would result in lower prices for the rest of us. This will never happen, but fair is fair!


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## Ben (Jul 15, 2020)

@NoOneKnowsAnything




Happy groundhog day!


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## jaketanner (Jul 15, 2020)

NoOneKnowsAnything said:


> This is the rich get richer at play, an unfortunate reality of life. What if the wealthiest composers paid a usage fee based on the budget of the film ie. $100 million production budget means they pay each developer $10,000. There are probably making $1-3 million in creative fees just to do that film so $50,000 in usage fees to 5 VI developers (ie. VSL, Spitfire, OT, Cinesamples, CSS) would result in lower prices for the rest of us. This will never happen, but fair is fair!


This makes no sense...the majority of mock ups/VI libraries for film especially get replaced by live players. Sometimes the VIs get layered in with the live performance, but look at the Black Panther score...all live percussion. 

And I know many A-list composers that pay for all their libraries...only a select few may get free libraries as promotion, but certainly not all of them, and there a lot. So maybe 1-2 top composers get free libraries...not a call for concern. And on top of that, a lot of the top composers also have their own bespoke libraries from projects they've done...Junkie XL comes to mind.


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## jaketanner (Jul 15, 2020)

Ben said:


> @NoOneKnowsAnything
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't for the life of me figure out the installs of these demos so that they show up in my player. I've downloaded them, installed them, ran the e-licenser software several times, typed in the codes and still not showing up. What am I doing wrong? LOL


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## Ben (Jul 15, 2020)

Have you really installed them or only downloaded them?
And after activation on the eLicenser restarted the host?

If you quit the host, click on the activation link in the email and follow the procedure, you should be guided step by step through the process. Just make sure that you actually install the libraries if you have disabled the "auto-install" check-box in the download manager.


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## jaketanner (Jul 15, 2020)

Ben said:


> Have you really installed them or onlyu downloaded them?
> And after activation on the eLicenser restarted the host?
> 
> If you quit the host, click on the activation link in the email and follow the procedure, you should be guided step by step through the process. Just make sure that you actually install the libraries if you have disabled the "auto-install" check-box in the download manager.


after I downloaded, I hit the install on both. Then licenser and pasted in codes to authorize...asked to start trial period. But now I see that there are no samples in my VSL folder at all after I hit the install...I'm gonna try it again. Something is awry.


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## jamwerks (Jul 15, 2020)

Percussion is usually all samples, even in top HW scores. But there are of course some exceptions. 

VSL has the advantage that only them have release-sample technology, the built-on time stretching can do things other libraries can't.


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 15, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> This makes no sense...the majority of mock ups/VI libraries for film especially get replaced by live players. Sometimes the VIs get layered in with the live performance, but look at the Black Panther score...all live percussion.
> 
> And I know many A-list composers that pay for all their libraries...only a select few may get free libraries as promotion, but certainly not all of them, and there a lot. So maybe 1-2 top composers get free libraries...not a call for concern. And on top of that, a lot of the top composers also have their own bespoke libraries from projects they've done...Junkie XL comes to mind.


More than 1-2, but I hear ya... I still feel the wealthy composers should pay a usage fee for using VI libraries in major films and tv shows and that would dramatically lower the price for everyone else who doesn’t make near the kind of money these extremely lucky 🍀 bunch do.


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 15, 2020)

Ben said:


> @NoOneKnowsAnything
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LMFAO


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## jaketanner (Jul 15, 2020)

@Ben ..any reason the high and low strings are capped off range wise? The lows are missing almost an octave and the high strings about a fifth in the low octave. Is this because of the overlap? Would have been nice to have the basses alone on the bottom end though if this is the case...:( Not sure about the high strings why that is though.


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## Ben (Jul 15, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Is this because of the overlap?


Yes


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## jaketanner (Jul 15, 2020)

So...what are people’s thought after downloading the demo?has anyone compared it to other libraries?


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 15, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> So...what are people’s thought after downloading the demo?has anyone compared it to other libraries?


Lyra & Musca are cool instruments, I own both and they sound really good together. For that price I definitely suggest people get them both while they are on sale. I own a lot of string libraries and these two bring something to the table, great sketching tools and for layering and adding to a final mix.


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## holywilly (Jul 15, 2020)

I really love L&M strings, legatos are very smooth and playable, the sonic quality is top notch, blend very well with my Synchron Strings I!

Now I'm deciding between L&M and Synchron Percussions II, both are outstanding libraries.


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## jaketanner (Jul 15, 2020)

holywilly said:


> I really love L&M strings, legatos are very smooth and playable, the sonic quality is top notch, blend very well with my Synchron Strings I!
> 
> Now I'm deciding between L&M and Synchron Percussions II, both are outstanding libraries.


Still need to do more tests for me. I am not sure that the pronounced viola blend is a good fit more me...trying to test it against other libraries to see if I really "need" it. It's still a $145 investment for both.


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## jaketanner (Jul 15, 2020)

NoOneKnowsAnything said:


> Lyra & Musca are cool instruments, I own both and they sound really good together. For that price I definitely suggest people get them both while they are on sale. I own a lot of string libraries and these two bring something to the table, great sketching tools and for layering and adding to a final mix.


For sketching I can use a patch from almost any library...if I get these it's for final work only. Going to try them out in two productions that I am currently working on that utilize unison strings...see how it does.


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## jamwerks (Jul 15, 2020)

Listened to the video walk-through. Really beautiful. It's basically a 26 piece violin section (with 8 viola 8vb), so like a hyper sized (a la HZ Strings) section with so many cool arts.

Hoping they do the same with no violas, and this would become my Vln I section (as-is panned left), then another of same just inverted (so panned rightish) would become my Vln II section.

This could serve as the mega-sized section of my string template. Then would love Celli & Basses seperate and maybe double the size. 

AWESOME WORK VSL!


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## Ben (Jul 18, 2020)




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## Simeon (Jul 18, 2020)

holywilly said:


> I really love L&M strings, legatos are very smooth and playable, the sonic quality is top notch, blend very well with my Synchron Strings I!



I love how the legatos have been done, not only for Lyra, but for the other BBO instruments I have been fortunate to experience. They are very fluid and beautiful.
Planning on covering these next week which I am very excited about.


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## ptram (Jul 19, 2020)

Violas are not very strong in Lyra, so what they do is more thickening than real doubling. These strings are big, fat, and can sound ranging from smooth to aggressive, but always full.

I think they are great for sketching (they sound immediately satisfying) but also useful for the final version. As the other titles of the series, they are focused on expression, with very musical sustains and an abundance of swells.

I posted, in the VSL forum, a short comparison of a classical music piece, showing how these strings (and the whole BBO series) sound compared to SynSE when composing with a notation program. It's not a finished mockup, but what one can expect to hear from just entering notes and drawing a few dynamic curves. It should make evident how more inspiring the new library is.

Comparison between BBO and SySE

Paolo


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## AndyP (Jul 19, 2020)

I can only confirm the impression of ptram!

At the moment I'm using the Synchron SE with BBO and it works perfectly together.
Only the Lyra shorts don't really please me. For ostinatos I use the strings in SE, they are somehow more tight and less fat, which I find better for Ostinatos. Musca, on the other hand, is more appropriate for that.


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## Ben (Jul 24, 2020)




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## rrichard63 (Jul 28, 2020)

ptram said:


> Violas are not very strong in Lyra, so what they do is more thickening than real doubling.


This is my impression also (based on the demos since I haven't downloaded Lyra).


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## jaketanner (Jul 28, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> This is my impression also (based on the demos since I haven't downloaded Lyra).


I find they stick out a lot. Definitely not subtle. Well in the lower range...but works well as a whole.


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 30, 2020)

As these are back on introductory pricing for a bit, I revisited them and then re-read this entire thread today, and am fairly certain these are NOT redundant for someone who owns all the other string libraries (several have come out since these Big bang installments were added, so I had to compare carefully), due to section size as well as the seating arrangements.

If this is incorrect and these would be redundant purchases (like some of the later Big Bang installments such as the recent end-of-alphabet strings and the stuff from the expanded Synchron Percussion), I'll definitely avoid buying them during the same. But right now, based on their sound and the articulation lists, it's looking like they might be a worthwhile addition even for those of us who "have it all".


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