# I need a 'go to' library for Brass and I am not happy with what I have.



## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 23, 2013)

I own HB, VSL Brass 1 and 2, sympobia and Sample modelling products and I'm a bit sick of not having a 'go to' brass section. 

I am looking at Dimension Brass - any thoughts on this product?

Are there any new alternatives either just out or coming soon that I may not know of?


Cheers,
Simon


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## MarkS_Comp (Jul 23, 2013)

How do you not have a 'go to' brass section with what you have already? That doesn't make sense. It would be understandable if you felt you were missing articulations, but that doesnt appear to be what you are saying here. With respect, maybe it's you? Maybe you don't know what real brass should sound like? Maybe you just aren't getting the most out of your tools? 

The only other really good brass lib that's on the market today that I know of, is Cinebrass. But I dont think that CB can do that much more than HB. maybe a little, maybe it's a little better in certain areas, but all in all, I think they are comprable. If you cant say HB is a go to brass lib, then you probably wont be able to say that about CB either.

Maybe wait for OT brass?


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 23, 2013)

How can I always come to these forums and get talked down to? Even if it is me who cares? Then suggest something better that a beginner like me can use.

Well anyway,

HB - Bombastic hollywood very 1 dimensional and some legato patches sound awful and its a head F to use (sluggish, resource hog, PLAY etc)
VSL Standard's articulations are a bit hmm lacking - i imagine with the extended articulations it would be nice but i aint paying the cash for that. 
Symphobia - No legato and dated bombastic hollywood again
Sameplemodelling - FANTASTIC, But I can't for the life of me get a decent ensemble sound out of them

The end. Sorry if im not as amazing as everyone else.


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## Symfoniq (Jul 23, 2013)

I recently acquired Dimension Brass, and am still learning the ropes. I think it was a great purchase, but I don't get the sense it was designed to be a core brass library. It's more of a supplement to VSL's original brass libraries, allowing you to write divisi parts for brass ensembles more easily and convincingly.

Cinebrass is the only potential "go-to" brass library I can think of that you don't already own. But the cost for Cinebrass Core and Pro isn't substantially less than upgrading your VSL brass libraries to full versions, so if the cost of rounding out your VSL libraries is too much to contemplate, I'm not certain that Cinebrass is a panacea.


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## BenG (Jul 23, 2013)

Maybe you can explain a bit better of what you are looking for. Something soft and expressive, loud and clean, more articulations, etc. 

I.e. What exactly are you not happy with?

The only other options atm would Chris Hein Horns and Cinebrass. And so to be added are Spitfire BML and OT Berlin Brass. 

In any case, I cannot suggest anything as I do not know what you like or are lacking.


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## MarkS_Comp (Jul 23, 2013)

How the hell do you take that as being talked down to??? I used the words "With respect" *for a reason*. Why is it that nobody can say things like, "maybe it's you" without getting railed? I said nothing wrong here. Nothing. Do you want people to just butter up to you, and sugar coat everything?

The fact is, we ALL were at a point were we didnt know what real instruments sounded like. We ALL were at a point were we didnt know how to get the most out of our tools. Nothing wrong with it; everyone has to start somewhere. Are you any different? 

_HB - Bombastic hollywood very 1 dimensional and some legato patches sound awful and its a head F to use _

I agree it's a bit on the bombastic side. But that's the intention - it's intended to be used in orchetral soundtracks and trailer scores. I completely disagree that it is 1 dimensional - that's just rediculous. Some legato patches need work, but I dont think they sound awful. You can turn down the legato transitions - I find that that helps some. Try keeping the modwheel down a bit, so youa rent playing the upper ff range. Less bombastic that way.

It might be a good idea to say what it is you are after, and what type of music you are doing that you need brass for. Without that, how do you expect anyone to be able to help you?


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## MarkS_Comp (Jul 23, 2013)

BenG @ Tue Jul 23 said:


> And so to be added are Spitfire BML



Good suggestion - I didnt orignally think of that. Is that evenout yet? Great sounding demos - smaller sections, not as "bombastic".


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## Maestro77 (Jul 23, 2013)

If you're open to ensembles then I might suggest Spitfire Albion. If you prefer sections, I'd go with Cinebrass. Those are my "go-to's." Both companies offer free updates from time to time so you'll be sure to always have the latest features.


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## Saxer (Jul 23, 2013)

what about stacking your libs? i do that often: cinebrass oder symphobia with a good first horn/trombone/trumpet from samplemodelling works great!

i also can't find a "to go"-brass for everything and that's ok. i think there's no "one size fits all". but my main tool is samplemodelling for melodies and cinebrass, symphobia and albions for ensemble-stuff.


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## Martin K (Jul 23, 2013)

Hi Simon

I use Cinebrass as my "go to" brass lib and can totally recommend it. Also, as mentioned by others, Albion I has a really nice brass ensemble.

best,
Martin


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## Wunderhorn (Jul 23, 2013)

I love CineBrass. It has become my go-to library for brass.

The only thing that it is lacking is pianissimo. I really hope they will address this in the future. I'd even pay for having some really good pp and ppp layers.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 23, 2013)

Orchestral music is what I want my brass for. All kinds. 

I like that I can JUST use LASS
or Just use spitfire percussion
or just use BWW

At the moment it's like..Oh I have a FH solo line sweet Sample Modelling..Oh no now it's a staccato section with 3 voices...HB!!......Trombones coming in...Oh shit HB Trom suckkkkkks quick get SM..Oh No! Intricate Trombone ensemble line...VSL!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW ZIMMER BLUURRRRRRRRRRR....SYMPHOBIAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AHHHH...Kill me.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 23, 2013)

Saxer @ Wed 24 Jul said:


> what about stacking your libs? i do that often: cinebrass oder symphobia with a good first horn/trombone/trumpet from samplemodelling works great!
> 
> i also can't find a "to go"-brass for everything and that's ok. i think there's no "one size fits all". but my main tool is samplemodelling for melodies and cinebrass, symphobia and albions for ensemble-stuff.



That's pretty much what i've been doing but..I was hoping to find a nice well rounded Brass Library

I sometimes stack BWW and VSL winds. I don't mind a bit o stacking but atm it's just ridiculous


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## Daryl (Jul 23, 2013)

I use SM but have Epic Horns in the template as well, in case I need a thick Ensemble Horn sound. It seems to work for everything else, and only having to do one take and not use keyswitches means that it is very quick.

Perhaps if you post something using this combination and then you might be able to get some advice as to where the principal problems lie.

D


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## Blackster (Jul 23, 2013)

I also use CineBrass, but my go-to brass is SampleModeling. I believe it's mostly a matter of mixing to achieve the right sound you are after. By 'mixing' I don't mean reverb and EQ, but saturation, compression, distortion and of course, some parallel audio processing. 

Sure, you'll have to play and program every single instrument but the results are amazing! But sometimes short deadlines don't allow that amount of work and in that cases I layer SM with CineBrass or Symphobia - works fine as well. But of course, this is going to alter you sound.


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## germancomponist (Jul 23, 2013)

What is very interesting is that lib A isn't the best for your job now, but in 3 month, when u have to write for another project, suddenly lib A is the best.... .

You know what I mean?

The best thing is it when you know all your libs best. When you compose in your head, you must be able to tell to yourself: For this I use this lib, and for this I use that lib .... .


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## Jordan Gagne (Jul 23, 2013)

Looks like people are misunderstanding SimonCharlesHanna's point. It's not that he isn't capable of doing everything with the brass that he has; it's that one single brass library can't "do it all", and that mixing and matching patches across libraries works, but is by no means convenient (especially when you factor in stage placement). 

The closest thing to an all-in-one does-it-all brass library will probably be the Spitfire BML line once Trumpets, Tuba, and Trombone gets added. Not gonna be cheap though.


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## Ryan99 (Jul 23, 2013)

Have you considered Kirk Hunter Concert Brass 2? I bought it a while ago when there was a group-buy and got it at an incredibl price. I think it's a very good product.


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## constaneum (Jul 23, 2013)

Wow !! You've owned so many Brass libraries...this thread sounds more like "hey guys !, I've owned these much brass libraries. What about you guys ?? " :roll: 

To be honest, I ever have the same problem as yea. The words to describe your feeling is "Endless Dissatisfaction". I do occasionally have this problem sometimes. After hearing each new stuff out in the market, I was like "MAN !! >8o I need to grab one of this in order to upgrade my current sound which seems to be a bit outdated/not achieving what I've wanted to do". Ended up buying it, testing it and then commenting that it still doesn't achieve what i've wanted. Endless purchase of sample libraries, boxes piling up on the display rack of "Hall of Achievement" (in terms of achievement of shopaholics. So proud of my shopping !! =o ). 

Buying sample libraries are totally endless !! Everyone wanna make the sound to sound like the real deal but this might only be 95% like the real deal and can never achieve 100% result. If you really want it to sound like the real deal, just pay up live musicians for that purpose. 

Please bear in mind that different sample developers have different approach/objectives/purpose for making the way how their libraries sound like. Some wanted it to be lush and expressive; some wanted it to be action base (ie: action strings); some wanted it to sound majestic/grand/bombastic and etc. They're all good in specific genres, not all rounders for sure. As a result, you can never achieve what you've wanted 100% with sample libraries but this doesn't really concern me coz employing live musicians are $$$ and i'm quite happy with the samples I've owned (you software developers sure know which libraries i've been using loyally - if you dont, trace back the ordering records of your customers ! AHAHAH) o=?


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 23, 2013)

Jordan Gagne @ Wed 24 Jul said:


> Looks like people are misunderstanding SimonCharlesHanna's point. It's not that he isn't capable of doing everything with the brass that he has; it's that one single brass library can't "do it all", and that mixing and matching patches across libraries works, but is by no means convenient (especially when you factor in stage placement).
> 
> The closest thing to an all-in-one does-it-all brass library will probably be the Spitfire BML line once Trumpets, Tuba, and Trombone gets added. Not gonna be cheap though.



I am glad someone said this. I thought I was making that point painfully obvious - apparently not.

When I compose I like to keep my work place lean and neat. 
1 orchestral template I have contains - 
8Dio Violins/HS or LASS depending on the sound I want
Spitfire Percussion
BWW/VSL soloists.

Sigh....and then ...well...the brass. 

For me - i'm spoiled for choice when it comes to Strings or winds. It's like...ooOOoO what sound do i want today. For brass it's just not like that - decent bits and pieces among too many libraries. 

And NO I'm not some spoiled brat - I live in Australia and I work for minimum wage which in my profession is 23$ an hour. The Aussie dollar was @ parity with US for a long time meaning I could buy software at LESS THAN half the cost it should have been due to inflation  .


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## dgburns (Jul 23, 2013)

I gotta say that you have a pretty good selection there.I find if you try to plumb the depths of say HB,you might find different sounds if you load up the close patches instead of say the main mics(which sound a bit larger in general)

I might suggest also to seek out guys who play brass,and get them to play stuff you've written.You might find that working through the arrangement with actual players,they will give you all sorts of insight into how they approach the music.It was an eye opening thing for me,and forever changed how I write for brass since.
I'm not suggesting hiring out players for top dollar,but instead maybe see if you know people already who play.Having the feedback right then and there might offer up some perspective on how to attack a sample lib that might not have the depth to capture your ideas as well as you'd like.

just a thought.


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## tmm (Jul 23, 2013)

I currently own both CB and Albion I, and would recommend either. To differentiate, I'd say (for me) CB is more playable, and Albion is more versatile (in terms of articulations / sounds to be had from a single patch). Having been a brass player in a former life, I'll say I greatly prefer the tone of CB for standard brass tones (though I'll rarely take the mod wheel above 50%... it was definitely designed for that somewhat unrealistic trailer brass sound), but there is something to be said for having a wide variety of arts in one patch (Albion), since that can lend to faster / easier inspiration.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jul 23, 2013)

SimonCharlesHanna @ Wed 24 Jul said:


> The Aussie dollar was @ parity with US for a long time meaning I could buy software at LESS THAN half the cost it should have been due to inflation  .



Ah... those were the days...


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## LOU AU (Jul 23, 2013)

I have Hollywood Brass gold, Platinum Orchestra, Symphobia, Project Sam brass and recently purchased the Cinebrass core and Cinewinds core. I couldn't be happier with the tone and flexibility of Cinebrass. Triggering the different samples is very well thought out and quick to learn. They sit well in a mix and have a lot of tonal colors to choose from. I've never used the Vienna brass, but I'm happy with what I have. I needed to be able to make distinct sections. The two horns work well so there is no build up of 12 horns in a section. The legatos are beautiful.


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## Ah_dziz (Jul 23, 2013)

I just use samplemodeling for everything brass related. No problems. every onc in a while i'll add in some of the old kontakt ewqlso brass and a hint of vsl when I need things huge.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 24, 2013)

SimonCharlesHanna @ Tue Jul 23 said:


> HB - Bombastic hollywood very 1 dimensional and some legato patches sound awful and its a head F to use (sluggish, resource hog, PLAY etc)
> VSL Standard's articulations are a bit hmm lacking - i imagine with the extended articulations it would be nice but i aint paying the cash for that.
> Symphobia - No legato and dated bombastic hollywood again
> Sameplemodelling - FANTASTIC, But I can't for the life of me get a decent ensemble sound out of them



Sounds like Cinebrass wouldn't be right for you if you consider HB and Symphobia "bombastic Hollywood". Dimension Brass I can't comment on, would be interested in more feedback myself on that.

Since you like LASS (and if you can wait for an unknown length of time), you might like to consider LASB, the brass equivalent. Audiobro have said nothing officially beyond that they are working on lots of upcoming products, but I'm personally quite optimistic that it will be out either this or next year. LASS is the library I keep coming back to - to have an equivalent that can scale from solo through chamber, auto arranged divisi and ensemble, with stage and color and artifactless legato, would be terrific.

I'm not quite in same boat as you - I like the libraries I have v much and don't mind mixing and matching - so I've talked myself into being happy to wait for as long as it takes for LASB to appear, and hope it delivers what I'd expect of it!


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## organix (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm using CineBrass the most time and it's my go to library for brass. CB Core + Pro contains all important instruments and articulations. 
The integrated mic mixer allows to use this lib in different sounding situations. 

But, CineBrass isn't a magical thing. It all rises or falls with the composition and the mixing. Sometimes it is better to improve their own skills, instead of buying one library after another.

-Markus


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## benmrx (Jul 24, 2013)

Wasn't there also a small mention of an upcoming 'berlin brass' from Orchestral Tools in the BWW update thread? I don't remember anything concrete, just that it was used in one of the demo tracks.


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## jaeroe (Jul 24, 2013)

have a lot of brass libraries and i find brass actually the easiest to keep in one or two libraries. IMO strings are harder (there are so many good ones that do different things) and winds as well..... in part, because winds are already a variety of barn yard animals and have the hardest time blending...

but, CineBrass i find does 90% of stuff for me and i then go to HW Brass to fill in wholes. you have good mic control, so you can figure out a mix that works.

CineBrass is easy to just play in quickly on a single patch. HWBrass requires a lot more patches to get a single instrument going properly. HW Brass covers the a2, a3 parts, etc. harmonic writing CB does well, with the polyphonic script. CB is definitely best starting place in my book.

spitfire BML horn is excellent, as well. much more realistic than other libraries in many many ways. that dreaded 8 horns overkill sound is just done to death. not for everyday use. BML horn is very realistic for a lot of stuff.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Jul 24, 2013)

benmrx @ 24th July said:


> Wasn't there also a small mention of an upcoming 'berlin brass' from Orchestral Tools in the BWW update thread? I don't remember anything concrete, just that it was used in one of the demo tracks.



We´re planing to do Berlin Brass later to complete the whole Berlin series (but not in the very near future).
What you heared in my demo was a custom brass library, which isn´t really complete to release it.

Best, Hendrik


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## Steve Steele (Jul 24, 2013)

SimonCharlesHanna @ Tue Jul 23 said:


> Orchestral music is what I want my brass for. All kinds.
> 
> I like that I can JUST use LASS
> or Just use spitfire percussion
> or just use BWW



These are what I use too.

So when you put it that way, CineBrass Core and Pro is the obvious answer that pops into my head. LASS and CB are like brothers. And CB goes great with BWW.

I would say that CB can be kinda bright, but so can LASS and BWW, so it works out. I think you'll lock right into CB.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 26, 2013)

UPDATE: Found it


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## constaneum (Jul 26, 2013)

found it ???? So which one ? Cinebrass?


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 26, 2013)

constaneum @ Fri 26 Jul said:


> found it ???? So which one ? Cinebrass?



Dimension Brass - I went with my gut feeling. I can't believe the hate for them. As an ensemble library they are so flexible. The Auto Divisi function is brilliant too - multiple voices with the same balance sounds great! Definitely recommend it.

Ps. thanks to all the nice people with suggestions - Sorry I didn't reply personally but I definitely read all the posts and took what was said into consideration


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## korgscrew (Jul 26, 2013)

For brass, you can't go wrong with Albion 1. Its my go to brass. Plus legato from symphobia. Albion 2 is sack butts which are ok. It sounds as though you have a great selection! I'm green with envy!

My advice? Use the lot and don't concentrate on wanting 1 library, jack off all trades etc. They all have Thier pros and cons.

By combining the libraries you will get a richer, more interesting sound!

Stopping thinking about what you want to buy, and concentrating on actually making music is the hardest part!


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## Steve Steele (Jul 26, 2013)

SimonCharlesHanna @ Fri Jul 26 said:


> constaneum @ Fri 26 Jul said:
> 
> 
> > found it ???? So which one ? Cinebrass?
> ...



From watching their demo I was impressed. Liked the GUI. Divisi _seemed_ to work well. The individual instruments seemed to be a little off to my ears. The one that stuck out most was the horns. They had a mid cut type sound that wasn't quite to my liking. But overall, based on that demo, I could see Dimension Brass being what you want.

Let us know how you end up getting on with them.


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## Arbee (Jul 26, 2013)

With Dimension Brass I'd be tempted to use the same trick as seems to work well with Dimension Strings, use solo instruments (VSL or Samplemodelling) as "first chair" instruments and use Dimension Brass to fill out the section.

.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 27, 2013)

Arbee @ Sat 27 Jul said:


> With Dimension Brass I'd be tempted to use the same trick as seems to work well with Dimension Strings, use solo instruments (VSL or Samplemodelling) as "first chair" instruments and use Dimension Brass to fill out the section.
> 
> .




That was always the intention - Having samplemodelling on top of any brass library gives it better definition and smoother.


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## Justin K (Jul 27, 2013)

I currently use an older EW orch library, but intend to go with Cine Brass soon as I think this library captures the best essence of brass playing overall.

With lesser libraries, the trick to making them sound real is in your programming. You can't just write like you would in notation. You need to hide the library's shortcomings and mix the voices accordingly.

For example, if your trumpet sound is a little synthy, doubling it with a solo horn will disguise it a little and give a decent result.


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