# Harry Potter and the Deathly Silence



## stevenson-again (Nov 30, 2010)

at the tail end of my current project i took time out to go and see the latest HP, because if i hadn't my youngest daughter would have beaten me into a wimpering pulp and left me to die cold and alone by the side of the road.

to be honest, i look forward to inevitable disappointment the movies have brought just as much as she does, but this time i was in for a surprise. the latest film is excellent. what stands out is finally they have found the emotional core of the stories (i quite like the books) and took the time to explore it, and draw it out of the performances which suddenly felt natural, believable and unforced. always with fantastical stories sci-fi etc, the world they inhabit is part of the interest in seeing or reading them, but they pall quickly if there is not an emotional truth to the characters and the plot. i always felt that rowling had that covered in the books and it was missing in the films. i always left shaking my head wondering why they didn't 'get it' - in fact they could miss it.

this time though, it was superbly understood and presented in ways that a book can't express - a sign of really good film making IMO. it was much more faithful to the book but more importantly faithful to the emotional core.

looking at the reviews, they pick up on something i felt myself - that the film sags in the latter third, but unlike the reviewers who all pontificated about the various reasons why this was - i know the reason why.

there was bugger all music.

and what there was, was a little thin and uninspired. the score generally sounded timid and unadventurous. i am not a massive fan of desplat, but i think he is a much much better composer than was present in the movie. the golden compass at the very least had some really remarkable cues with imagination and colour. apart from some really nice tasteful electronica the HP score was bland - and i am pretty sure the reason for that is the director.

i know myself the frustration of having to deal with producers and directors who don't quite get how music works to picture. they too often seem to see music as providing atmosphere, tension, or emotionality, and while it certainly does do that, what it can also do is provide structure and pace. the saggy bits of the film was where there was least music and what there was was dishwater thin. i appreciate that there was a naturalism being attempted, but i just don't know if that was appropriate for such a film. not scoring some of the action sequences was great, and some of the subtelty was wonderful, but if it is all subtle it tends to the same blandness as if you went bruckheimer everywhere.

a colleague mentioned that desplat said in an interview there is a vogue for 'tuneless' scores - that themes are seen as somehow old fashioned. does anyone think this is true?

we are struggling with our current project with a lack of understanding by particularly the producers as to what music function really is within a story. it doesn't just create atmosphere to give you a moment of emotionality, it can give pace and structure to the story as well. it has a psychoacoustic effect where the musics own logic creates the illusion of logic within the film as well, and the music has to be 'set up' in just the same way a story has to be set up. if you start fooling about with the logic of a score you lose the sense it makes of the whole film. we are finding our cues cut into and moved around and other cues bolted together. now and then it can work, but if it is done too much the structure is lost and the whole effect of the film is that it doesn't make as much sense. listen out for reviewers picking up on story or character or performance flaws to justify why it just didn't feel right. it's just they can't gauge the effect of a well written score has on the story.

even my daughter and her friend noticed this. they asked "why was there no music in the forest? it was strange there was no music." the pace of the film, the colour and interest could have been augmented so much more by a little more faith in the music to carry that through. it doesn't have to be carmina burana with a drum beat, but a bit more energy and drama could have pulled us through the slower sections which were otherwise beautifully done. we could have had music to make us feel that something was brewing, or that the baddies might pop out and zap them at any time, something to create a little more tension around the protagonists predicament.

what i propose is when the DVD comes out we divvy up some scenes and WE score it. Harry Potter and VI-control film score. no need to worry about clashing with any music...there isn;t any. actually in all seriousness, if you have a scene where music exists, don't replace it - augment it.

whadda yooz say?


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## dcoscina (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm really surprised at how much Desplat negativity there is. Perhaò  x   Ìg  x   Ì‚  x   Ì±  x   Ìå  x   Ì(u  x   Ì(©  x   Ì>\  x   Ì>®  x   Ì@  x   Ì@þ  x   ÌFb  x   ÌFà  x   ÌS  x   ÌS  x   ÌSË  x   ÌS÷  x   Ìgñ  x   Ìh^  x   Ìt  x   Ìv  x   Ì™¯  x   Ì™ñ  x   Ì«Û  x   Ì¬8  x   Ìûœ  x   Ìûò  x   Í  x   Í1  x   Í:  x   ÍX  x   Ív  x   ÍCÚ  x   ÍD  x   ÍX+  x   ÍXu  x   Íiž  x   ÍjI  x   Ímá  x   Ínæ  x   Íy}  x   ÍyÓ  x   Í|‹  x   Í}  x   Í…Ü  x   Í…þ  x   Íˆª  x   ÍˆÞ  x   Í‹â  x   ÍŒ¥  x   Í t  x


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## stevenson-again (Nov 30, 2010)

i just want to clarify:

i don't dislike desplat. there is nothing i have written here i would not say to him personally or the director, who went to my film school btw...

i think some of the things he does is very good indeed. there was some wonderful cues in the golden compass. i think what i am saying is that he is capable of more than what we heard in the actual score but likely did not get the opportunity. the word on the street about him, is that he is very good to work with from the directors point of view. he is very obliging and not precious about his work. he is much liked in hollywood probably for this reason. the same word is that he had a tough ride on the deathly hallows and my feeling is that this is reflected in the score to an extent. i am not saying the score was dreadful, but i would say that it could have been so much more and it was a missed opportunity. it was superbly directed in every way except musically.

i have another theory on this. my impression is that british directors don't really 'get' music and its function in the way that american based directors seem to. if i were to hold up an example of people utterly understand how to use music it would be the pixar crew. each of their scores with the composers they have used is utter perfection in terms of how to score to picture.

here is another example: HP3 azkabahn. in every way deathly hallows is superior in terms cinematic story telling - yet it does drag. HP3 is even longer and it is held still to be one of the best of those films. i didn't like the direction on it much and i thought as fun as it was, it tried to funny in places that should have been dark, and misunderstood the emotional truths of the story. yet despite this you are swept along through the film by one of the best scores JW has done for a while.

what would happen if we were to swap the scores over? if you were to put the same kind of music in 7 Pt 1 onto HP3 how would you feel about the film then? i know that is somewhat specious, but i think you can imagine what i am getting at.

for most punters they don't notice the music. they certainly don't 'listen' the way directors do. you can almost see the fear in their eyes when haviong to deal with music. i just don't think they really get the power it has. but the punters feel the subconciously the internal drama of the score and it can absolutely pull you through a movie without you being aware of a note. how it's done can be the difference between feeling like it made sense or w2as exciting or not.


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## handz (Nov 30, 2010)

I like Desplat. One thing That I noticed in the cinema when I was watching the movie was - wow this sounds like REAL ORCHESTRA is playing, it have that "live"tone! Not this synthy blocbuster pop sound. That was good, day after I have listened soundtrack and... it was sad, the themes of characters - well those are not themes, but maybe some mood that tries to describe them. You cant compose theme without melody. Good music must have melody. Popular, movie or classical. Even penderecki returned after his famous avantgarde period to melodical pieces. 

Williams, williams, williams, sorry but he is the man who make hit from every theme he made and people will remember it after hearing it. This absolutely cant happen after listening to HP DH OST, tehre are great moods, but no themes.


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## Christian Marcussen (Nov 30, 2010)

I have not seen the latest film, but I can relate to what you are sayin in the sense that I feel HP pretty much died when Williams left. His HP music is really wonderous and magical (pretty important for a film about wizards) and none of the other scores come close.


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## dcoscina (Nov 30, 2010)

Well it's pretty impossible to follow Williams for anyone and any project. The guy is the Mozart of our time. The complexity yet effortless way he puts together music is something to awe. Really. I think it's amazing that someone who writes such catchy themes can also stand the test of intense music analysis. Williams exists on a dual plain the likes we haven't seen since, um, well MOZART!


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## handz (Nov 30, 2010)

Which is very sad when you realize how old he is now


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## David Story (Nov 30, 2010)

I spoke with AD at a screening of The King's Speech. It's a wonderful film, and one of his best scores. The director and he agreed on an understated, internalized approach. The themes are short and repetitive, but lovely orchestration and performances. There's a little development, and a few scenes where the melody sings. AD is good at supporting the actors, setting the tone, and making subtle shifts.

He really didn't want to talk about HP. 

In a previous thread, I said that his strength is tone and character, not fantasy adventure, and wondered why he was cast as HP composer. His agency has other composers that are strong in fantasy adventure. But AD may be easier to work with, and makes music that has "smaller wings". That's in vogue today.

Deathly Hallows is a good film and I have publicly recommended it. Looking forward to the climax in July.

It could have soared with a bolder score, featuring clear themes and strong brass. They could have adapted JW's cues and done right by the film. That approach works successfully in parts of Chamber of Secrets. 

If the pace fails, that's not good filmmaking. I suspect the director thinks that music must always follow the picture. In great films, music takes the lead to improve the story. Wizards and magic, music takes the lead, it's traditional and timeless.

I agree that melody is only starting a comeback. HZ/RC can be fun, but anti-melodic. Sound design music, by his own words. Hopefully, he will have a change of heart.

DP has a humanity that does help HP. I like Obliviate and Bathilda Bagshot, a few magical, thematic cues. The synths are cool. And he is consulting with JW for part 2, which is a good idea.
He's following a legend.


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## mjc (Nov 30, 2010)

I haven't really heard enough of Desplat to have a solid opinion of him. From what I know, he scores elegantly with great 'emotional instinct'. I'm a big fan of all the HP movies. I think they've all followed in JW footsteps with great skill, and more importantly their own voice. Which has suited the dramatic change in tone throughout the series. I thought Nicholas Hooper in particular did a brilliant job with the last two.

My opinion as far a having a big thematic score goes: Yes it is a fantasy movie of 'epic' scale but that doesn't mean it needs themes. It's not the innocent, wondrous world JW left. Don't get me wrong I love big themes more than anything but it's soooo not a rollicking fun filled adventure, it doesn't lend it self to a thematic score. It's a mood score, very tense, and I thought Desplat delivered greatly. Maybe cause I went in with such low expectations for the music? Who knows but I was pleasantly surprised!

I don't wanna spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it, but for those who have - what do you think of the music at the end during the emotional climax? (you know what I mean :wink: ) It tugged at my heart strings! Highlight of the score! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhtZB96yWNQ
Especially from 1.09 onwards

Just thought I'd chuck my opinion in there  

Cheers,
Andy

P.S. Don't be afriad to assume I'm biased because I love the HP movies hehe :lol:


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## noiseboyuk (Nov 30, 2010)

Hi Rohan. I had exactly the same reaction of pleasant suprise as you when watching this. I've not read any of the books but have seen the first 6 movies, which imho have at best been mildly entertaining and often downright horrible (no 4 scarred me for life is was so abysmal). This felt like a movie from a totally different - and far better - series.

However, as to the music... I dunno. You could be right, but I'm not convinced. I actually was held throughout. I loved the stillness and the quiet myself, it was part of the reason I loved the film (incidentally, kudos to some STUNNING sound design which I couldn't help noticing). IMHO if there was a feeling of general letdown towards the end, it's the inevitable consequence of turning a book into 2 parts. Very hard to generate a perfect third act in a story which is actually mid-way through the second. I believe in the power of music, but I'm not sure it can stretch quite as far as propping up an entire act! That said, for me I was fine with it as I am fine with The Empire Strikes Back... which itself has no ending at all, just a Big Revelation which is a cheat really - and that's exactly the same reason that I will always think that A New Hope is the superior movie, cos it's the only one with a true beginning, middle and end.

As to HP 7pt 1, it's obviously not a self-contained story, but I was nevertheless engrossed, it was told so well. I didn't notice the music itself too much I'm afraid, but in my case that's a good thing. I rarely do if I'm into a story. It's only on a 2nd or 3rd viewing that I can begin to deconstruct it.


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## David Story (Nov 30, 2010)

ajcmuso @ Tue Nov 30 said:


> Yes it is a fantasy movie of 'epic' scale but that doesn't mean it needs themes. It's not the innocent, wondrous world JW left. Don't get me wrong I love big themes more than anything but it's soooo not a rollicking fun filled adventure, it doesn't lend it self to a thematic score. It's a mood score, very tense, and I thought Desplat delivered greatly. Maybe cause



It does need themes. That's how you do this kind of composing. There are horror sequences in the JW scores that incorporate character themes. I trust his judgement, seems to pay off<G>.

I love the Harry Potter series, and think the current film has the best score since the first 3.


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## rpaillot (Nov 30, 2010)

AD doesnt like themes. He said it in an interview in a french magazine. He said he wasnt a big fan of these film scores where you repeat the main theme infinitely.


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## David Story (Nov 30, 2010)

Radcliffe and Watson have to carry a lot of the scenes, and they're fine. Stunning cinematography, visual effects and sound design. You can tell Rowling is a producer again, 7 has a pace more like the books.

It does feel like the series is maturing, but I felt that all along, esp HP6. That was complexò     Æd     Æ€Ö     Æ3     Æ„–     Æ…<     Æ†e     Æ†y     Æ†¬     Æ†â     Ç h     Ç ¯     Ç&y     Ç&ò     Çw¿     Çx‹     ÇÔf     ÇÔx     È7‚     È8a     ÈX=     ÈY     È’±     È“     È©     ÈÔ     È¥     È¦     ÈÂ]     ÈÂ¾     Èå»     Èåä     Èê0     Èê9  


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## JonFairhurst (Nov 30, 2010)

I thought the forest scenes dragged in the book. The feeling I got was of waiting, needing to learn patience, and of time passing as the world around them got worse and worse. There was an emptiness to that section of the story.

It was also a stretch when the characters carped and carped, which became annoying. Thank goodness they cut that from the film!

So, if the pace dragged, that might have been intentional. And, they got away with it. Nobody walked out during the screening I saw. 

Now, themes vs. moods? I like both, but I prefer writing themes.


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## nikolas (Nov 30, 2010)

I saw HP7 part 1 for the second time tonight. I liked the music, because it served the film very well. I did get a tiny bit annoyed at the many cliches, but then again I was also enjoying the tiny bit more contemporary approach the composer took!

I like all the movies, haven't read the books, but plan to in the near future (with my kids).


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## handz (Nov 30, 2010)

The book is of course much better, it is very "mature" in comaprsion to other books and one big part is harrys thought about his fate, his role in story etc, which was very fascinating for me - bad is that this isnt in movie. Also those emotional / scary moments in movie are too close together and it is so fast from scene to scene that you dont have a time to get emotionaly involved. 

But I liked it, story dont lack any important details like other parts usually does.


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## stevenson-again (Dec 1, 2010)

> My opinion as far a having a big thematic score goes: Yes it is a fantasy movie of 'epic' scale but that doesn't mean it needs themes. It's not the innocent, wondrous world JW left. Don't get me wrong I love big themes more than anything but it's soooo not a rollicking fun filled adventure, it doesn't lend it self to a thematic score. It's a mood score, very tense, and I thought Desplat delivered greatly. Maybe cause I went in with such low expectations for the music? Who knows but I was pleasantly surprised!




well, i don't necessarily mean for the film to have had a 'big theme' kind of score. it can still be understated and minimalist. i think as an approach it was a good call, but i definitely feel the music could have worked a bit harder.

i really liked the film, but i was conscious of the fact that it was very emotional and intimate for a film a lot of kids would want to see. it didn't need much, it just needed the extra pace and direction a more focussed score can bring.

and the reason i post on this is because it is really topical for me at the moment. my collaborator on the project i just finished working on has just had an absolutely stunning cue rejected by the producers, even though the director loved it. the producers didn't even look at the demo of the cue (it was a big important one) and just rocked up to the dub and dropped it, after it had been recorded etc etc. these guys are happy to get in there and chop up cues and while sometimes i can see their point of view and sometimes i think they are wrong, in general they lose much more than they gain by doing that. i kind of feel if it doesn't matter that the cues are chopped about with dodgy edits, then it shouldn't matter if the precise nuance they were hoping for or expecting (not even directed to give i should point out...) is not in the cue. in this case, it was different more understated and uplifting in quietly heroic sort of a way. i thought it was astonking cue and considering the locked cut didn't turn up until a day before the recording, a great deal of piss has been taken by the producers.

my feeling is that the same or similar process happened to AD and i am not surprised he didn't want to talk about that score. it was for a similar reason that NH was not involved in this film. if JW does do the 2nd Pt, it will be interesting to see what happens there since the director - a brilliant director btw - clearly has a similar penchant for getting his hands dirty with the music as our boys on our project. i wonder what sort of dynamic would be in evidence with a film legend and the new hotshot, who clearly has dramatic chops but one wonders about just how much he 'gets' music to picture.

my feeling about this HP film is one of relief. finally, it gets the job done. i think it is an excellent film as is, no changes to anything, but if it dragged a bit then the lack of musical focus is the reason.


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## lux (Dec 1, 2010)

David Story @ Tue Nov 30 said:


> There are horror sequences in the JW scores that incorporate *character themes*.



thats the word. Characters themes, thats what i'm missing a lot in today's scores. The old Peter and the wolf stuff.

John Williams has been such a master with that. Character themes are one of the fundaments of an "additive" view of a music score. Its the way more than one artist collaborate together in depicting a character in a movie. The actor, the director, the musician, other than, of course, make up, dressings and such. I somehow miss that approach.

I recall John Williams placing that "spanish ladies" subtle motive when Robert Shaw was expecially involved in the Jaws score. That score is the perfect example of a character writing in music. So many individual bits which combine and intersect themselves to add a plus to the already great visuals. A realy really masterful experience.

A modern "soundscape" approach, while is a valid choice, i feel somehow misses that part and that coloured complexity and finesse. Its like the characters are painted with a very large brush and heavy colors. Sometimes it works so nicely. But sometimes just dont.

Luca


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## Tanuj Tiku (Dec 1, 2010)

I saw the new Harry Potter.

Good film - very different from the earlier films. 

I love Alexandre Desplat's music but it is very clear in HP that he was forced to write material that is not his style at all.

There was the Chuga-Chuga effect right in the opening scenes and was very Dark Knight inspired. And just overall - I did not hear much of Desplats talents as a composer.

It was very evident through the film that a bit of RC syndrome had come into the score - of course because of the producer/director.


I loved the music to The Dark Knight but cannot hear similar effects in other films - specially such has HP - because its William's original vision which has to be carried forward.

John Williams is one of the most legendary Film composers to have ever lived. I totally agree that its impossible to follow him because he is that good! 

His HP scores are just on another level. Desplat is great too - and I was really looking forward to him doing the Deathly Hallows but I think he has been let down by the Film makers and its very clear in the writing - its just not his type of material for the most part.

In any case, there isnt as much music in the latest Potter movie. Williams wrote amazing themes for the movies and a return to the project would have really made it more fun because Williams use of themes and his ability to tell long format stories in the form of films is just astonishing. No other film composer does it as well as he does!


But I still look forward to the last film in the hope that Desplat will finally be given the freedom to write what he wants.


Best,

Tanuj.


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## mjc (Dec 1, 2010)

stevenson-again @ Wed Dec 01 said:


> > My opinion as far a having a big thematic score goes: Yes it is a fantasy movie of 'epic' scale but that doesn't mean it needs themes. It's not the innocent, wondrous world JW left. Don't get me wrong I love big themes more than anything but it's soooo not a rollicking fun filled adventure, it doesn't lend it self to a thematic score. It's a mood score, very tense, and I thought Desplat delivered greatly. Maybe cause I went in with such low expectations for the music? Who knows but I was pleasantly surprised!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Touché! :wink: 

I know a lot the reason I like the scores is because I was expecting nothing much from whoever had to take over Williams post Azkaban (ò  …   ágL  …   ágˆ  …   ál‰  …   ál£  …   árÐ  …   árê  …   átE  …   áte  …   áuŠ  …   áu¾  …   áw*  …   áwH  …   áx­  …   áy(  …   áyè  …


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## midphase (Dec 1, 2010)

dcoscina @ Tue Nov 30 said:


> I'm really surprised at how much Desplat negativity there is. Perhaps HP didn't offer him the same range of freedom as Twilight: New Moon, The Queen, Benjamin Button, LustCaution, and things of that nature, but I've been listening to the CD soundtrack and there's a lot of terrific writing in it. Perhaps they left a lot out....
> 
> I'm just surprised at the association of tuneless music and Desplat, a composer who I think is one of the few who does apply a musicality to his scores, moreso than a lot of other big names.



I don't think the negativity is raised towards Desplat as a whole, but rather towards a few of his scores which are obviously not his forte. I don't think there is anything wrong with understanding one's limitations...I think epic and anthemic scores are simply not his best.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Dec 1, 2010)

Sorry to disagree, but I found both film and score boring...


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## stevenson-again (Dec 1, 2010)

you are welcome to disagree but you'd still be wrong.


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## handz (Dec 1, 2010)

Not so much about the score unfortunately.


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## lux (Dec 3, 2010)

Just back from the movie. Good movie.

I have to admit that i pretty much liked Desplat's work. While its not tematic as some of the previous scores it works pretty good. Things are changed, its no more wonder, its fear and anxiety and the kids are grown up. I can perfectly justify a twist in the approach. Also, i happened to think while watchin the movie "wow there is woodwinds in this score".

The thing to consider is also that a composer which gets the job on a mature franchisee is not free of course. I still feel he approached some of the scenes like it was a new movie and he was watchin it for the first time. And in general i like his interpretation of the visuals.

The thing which bugs me a little about this new movie is that it has a clear "twilight" turn, which i think could be avoided. The love consuming-puritan fiasco which the vampires pastiche is full of is tipically irritating. But maybe thats because i'm not an adolescent.

In general i went out with a good first impression both of the movie and the relative score.

Luca


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## Marius Masalar (Dec 4, 2010)

I have to admit that I really enjoyed the score. More in the film than on album, and more in terms of placement than anything else. I really liked how and where music came up against picture. It wasn't just slathered all over the place in the obvious "score me" scenes. Mostly silent chase? Intense.

Some great cues in there for sure though. Give the score a chance on album if you're thinking it thin and uninspired. There's some good material that's hard to catch in context.

It's no Williams, but it's probably among my favourite HP scores (for the films) since he left. That being said, what James Hannigan has been doing for the games is ridiculous and kicks the film scores' asses all over the place. If you haven't heard the scores for the games since he came on then you really should. His scores made the film scores sound underwhelming.


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## studioj (Dec 4, 2010)

I thought this was the best HP yet. #3 was the only other one I walked out satisfied with but deathly hallows pt 1 brings it to a new more artful place I think. That being said I did find myself a little disappointed with the score. Mostly because I just don't remember much about it. Then I started to think that maybe this is a good approach to a "pt 1" film. I mean they have to be able to take it somewhere for the finale, right? perhaps that was AD's and the producer/director's approach...keep this one sparse and simplistic and then ramp it up for pt 2. I did appreciate many of the no music scenes. Gave them a darkness and gravitas that music may have mucked with. 
"No country for old men" came to mind. 

I feel like you can't get through a score these days without nolan's batman chugga chugga. I find myself saying "really?" now when I hear it. And it's funny that we associate it with a film so recent. Surely many films before used that device. But perhaps that is the biggest film in recent memory that is essentially "themeless" in the traditional sense. but zimmer and crew did that one right for sure.


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## lux (Dec 4, 2010)

I have to say that i personally find Desplat's score far from Batman's at first glance. I didnt feel it was walking similar fields. Desplat's score sounds like more a classic score where the composer kept himself controlled, but where sound design and music were separated and collaborating.

The Batman's franchisee music sounds to me like a perfect hybrid to me, where sound design is an integrated part of the score and its part of the music too. Also it has a typical underusage of classical instruments like the woods and where the brass and strings work in a very peculiar manner, and sometimes unconventional. to create a magnific wall of sound and a mixed real instruments-world of synthesis result, where you cant really distinguish the ones from the others.

I feel there's much difference between the twos. Of course its just my perception


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## David Story (Dec 4, 2010)

A band of wizards play haunting tunes, right?


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## Lex (Jan 29, 2011)

Finally saw this...loved the score, for me the best HP score since Azkaban.

alex


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## jlb (Jan 29, 2011)

Rohan is right, proper themes have gone out of fashion and it stinks, it needs to change, there are very few memorable scores around currently just the same old dross

jlb


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