# New Interface with Designare Thunderbolt 3 - little choice?



## StillLife (Jun 10, 2020)

Hi All,

My Steinberg MR816csc interface is acting strangely lately - have to re-install its driver each time I start my PC (windows). It is a Firewire interface, and drivers aren't getting any updates anymore, so now I am considering to buy a new interface.

As I have just bought a new pc with a Designare motherboard (which includes dual TB3 connectors) I reckoned the most future proof thing to buy would be a TB3-interface. I also would like to buy RME, due to their great reputation on stability. However, RME does not offer any TB3 interface. They do have a couple of TB2 interfaces (UFX/UFX+) that seem to be great options, but the word on the net is that the designare's TB3 ports do not go well with TB3 to TB2 adapters, and I want to rule out any chance of issues when I am buying an interface at that price.

As far as I know, only two companies offer TB3 interfaces. First, there is UA, with their youngest Apollo series (Arrow to X16), of which I like the X6, X8 and X8p. They seem to be top quality. However, they are quite pricey, and I fear I will be paying for features that I will not use, such as the DSP-effects, having so much FX already in the DAW. At a much lower price point there is the new Presonus Quantum 2626. That one gets really good reviews around the net (it seems to be much more solid than Presonus' previous interfaces). It also seems to offer just what I want: ommitting DSP and having the lowest possible latency, which will make working in the box (as I intend to do) so much easier. However, a big minus for me is that it has all inputs on the front. My desk space is limited and I dont't want to have all those cables hanging out, in plain sight! Limited desk space had me also decide against the UA's desktop units (such as the Arrow or the Twin). Presonus does offer a Quantum with the inputs on the back (and some other goodies - metering, for instance), but that one comes with TB2 instead of TB3...

Bottom line: I don't know what to do. I am able to invest in a high end interface, but I need it to have a rock solid (TB3) connection with my PC and enhance my work space on the desk, not intrude it. Any advice? Any options I missed? Any solutions to the possible problems I sketched above?
Thanks in advance!


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## fraz (Jun 11, 2020)

Hey and Hi !!! - I'm no massive expert but came to look around on the forum.

UAD are very good - a bit tricky maybe but a few units can be cascaded together - but yes they cost quite big and DSP effects are good as long as the hardware can run them effectively and they take strain away from your NATIVE fx on the PC or Mac.

Focusrite also have thunderbolt interfaces both thunderbolt 2 & 3 - th2=mini_display port connector @ 20 Gb/s whilst thunderbolt 3 (usb_c_connector)_operates @ upto_40 Gb/s.

If you had a th2 interface it may still work with your Gigabyte board (apple th2 > th3 adapter) unless there is a "bug" in the latest Gigabyte TH3 controller for the Z390 / Z490 motherboard.

MOTU also have some choices that may appeal to you - as well as RME

https://www.rme-audio.com/fireface-ufx.html <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< thunderbolt 3 ??????

If you look closely at this interface you will see it is TH3 equipped as well as USB_3 - This will be cheaper than UAD

It comes down to what you want ! - And you may have regrets either way !


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## StillLife (Jun 11, 2020)

fraz said:


> Hey and Hi !!! - I'm no massive expert but came to look around on the forum.
> 
> UAD are very good - a bit tricky maybe but a few units can be cascaded together - but yes they cost quite big and DSP effects are good as long as the hardware can run them effectively and they take strain away from your NATIVE fx on the PC or Mac.
> 
> ...



Thanks Fraz,

I'll check out Focusrite then, did not know they were TB3.

The UFX+ looks great, but I can't find where it says TB3. I only read: Thunderbolt technology. Where did you get that TB3 information from?


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## fraz (Jun 12, 2020)

Actually I took another look at the UFX+ and it is thunderbolt 2 -Sorry for incorrect information. Antelope Audio also have good interfaces that are DSP based and plugins are free I think if they are compatible with the interface but they are expensive.


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## fraz (Jun 12, 2020)

Looks like Focusrite has TH3 but maybe only Mac


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## fraz (Jun 12, 2020)

Is your Designare a Z490 chipset?
I just checked UAD forum and there is a user there who has setup Gigabyte Z390 Designare and 9900K with Th2 to Th3 adapter by Apple and it works really well


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## StillLife (Jun 12, 2020)

fraz said:


> Is your Designare a Z490 chipset?
> I just checked UAD forum and there is a user there who has setup Gigabyte Z390 Designare and 9900K with Th2 to Th3 adapter by Apple and it works really well


I've got a Z390. Do I understand correctly that Designare problems are only with the Z490?


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## fraz (Jun 12, 2020)

StillLife said:


> I've got a Z390. Do I understand correctly that Designare problems are only with the Z490?



Hi, I really don't know 100%_but_there was some talk of the Gigabyte "Titan Ridge" controller for thunderbolt not working properly - But there is a user on UAD forum with a working system. FWIW, I've got one of your boards as well, also have one or two older boards with TH3 in_back_panel.

Gigabyte had a Z170 Gaming 7 board with TH3 in back panel and an "Alpine Ridge" name to the controller.

Now on Z390 a Titan Ridge controller (or another name) - Some problems may be down to user error as it's fiddly getting a PC system set up with all drivers working correctly and most boards / BIOS's have their niggles.

TH needs enabling in the BIOS - Sometimes TH needs assigining to a "certain" PCI-e" slot as there is a choice. Sometimes only one specific slot will work but if it is TH in the back-panel then the BIOS just needs configuring.

Also there are a few versions of the thunderbolt software such as version 15.xxx.xxx / 16.xxx.xxx \ 17.xxx.xxx.

Some versions may work with Windows 10 x64 only and some may work on Windows 7 x64 as there are users who have working systems.

Due to me having a test bench I've installed lots of drivers and it's a pain but I've got most things working if they can work.

Sometimes there is a 100% problem where something will not work no matter what but these are rare-ish (I speculate)__and user error is more common.

Sometimes an interface needs switching on first before it can be found by the OS (little hassles)_here_and there.

There was an AsRock board or two where the system wouldn't boot if a TH and or USB device was plugged in at boot, but this may have been TH2 with an AIC "add_in_card"


<<<<< UAD forum link below to "working" thunderbolt systems that other users have as we speak !!!






Apollo Working Thunderbolt Setups on Windows with UAD v9 or later


As of UAD v9 Official Thunderbolt Support has been added for Windows 10 systems with specific configurations! See the details here - https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/215731443-Apollo-Thunderbolt-Windows-Compatibility Users are also posting success stories with various other...



uadforum.com





Have a look on page_35_of this long thread and look for a user "exoslime" who has the board you have.

Possibly join the forum, rack up enough posts, and send him an "apologetic" PM and ask about the board.

Please don't think this won't work - I know its daunting having doubt about a configuration of motherboard / CPU / audio_interface_combination.

Intel invented thunderbolt for Apple - but on Windows boards Intel ensured that motherboard manufacturers adhered to strict guidelines in order to obtain "thunderbolt certification" so it has been closely watched over by Intel - This should help alleviate some concerns.


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## fraz (Jun 12, 2020)

I've read your post again-In time RME will update their UFX+ and make it TH3-which would double the bandwidth on the PCE-express bus from 20 Gb/s to 40 Gb/s (not that 20 is low)-just 40 is double.

Let us know what you decide


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## Virtuoso (Jun 12, 2020)

I have a PC with the Designare Z390 board and a 9900KS CPU which I use with a TB3 UA Arrow. I also use UA Apollos on my Mac (TB2 Apollo 8 and TB3 x8). They all work fine on either system. Before the Apollos I had a UFX for a few years which was also great - I never had a problem with it.

What kind of I/O options do you need? That might be the determining factor.


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## fraz (Jun 12, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> I have a PC with the Designare Z390 board and a 9900KS CPU which I use with a TB3 UA Arrow. I also use UA Apollos on my Mac (TB2 Apollo 8 and TB3 x8). They all work fine on either system. Before the Apollos I had a UFX for a few years which was also great - I never had a problem with it.
> 
> What kind of I/O options do you need? That might be the determining factor.



This should help the author of the thread ! - btw_how do you compare the UAD to the RME UFX?


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## StillLife (Jun 13, 2020)

Thanks, very useful information! 
I am now leaning towards a RME UFX II. The UAD's, though attractive, might draw me into a (pretty expansive and therefore expensive) eco system of plug ins that I not really need, as I already own lots of plugins. The UFX II has more I/O (i like to connect synths, tape recorder, guitar amp modeler), rock solid drivers and a stand alone recording function that might come in handy with my band. I also watched some video's on Totalmix FX and it seems really powerful and intuitive. This would mean I'd go for usb2 instead of TB, but I figure usb2 will be future proof also, as so much pc periferals use it. I could also buy rme ufx+ and gain TB, but I have no need for madi and its quite a lot more expensive. I can get the ufx II for around 1700-1800.euro's I think amd that does seem.a good deal. What do you think?


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## fraz (Jun 13, 2020)

Hi,

USB 2 would be a little on the low side for maximum bandwidth. USB 3.0 has a maximum bandwidth of 5 Gb/s (giga-bits-per-second)__and thunderbolt 2_(20_Gb/s)__th3_40_Gb/s.

RME have excellent cards so a PCI-e option would have better bandwidth (PCI-express)_but RME know how to build good interfaces intended for certain uses.

Thunderbolt 2 / 3 still uses the PCI-express bus of the motherboard and is akin. to having an x4 PCI-express card in your system.

I suppose it would depend on your track count and how many sources you wish to record simultaneously.

I see your point about UAD needing extra plugins, some for console mixer whilst all others are"native" and this adds to the cost of the setup.

Presonus Quantum 2632 Thunderbolt - looks quite good but looks a cheaper build than the RME? -

Also it depends on how long you plan to keep it -


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## StillLife (Jun 13, 2020)

I like to keep it for al long, long time (10 years minimum, preferably longer). Big investment for me. 
I hardly ever record more than two sources at a time (vst + vox / guitar + vox / guitar + vst), track count per song has of yet never exceded 100 tracks, so I think I USB2's bandwidth will be enough. I do like to keep my external gear (2 mics, synths, tape deck, guitar modeler etc) connected, so I like that the UFX II has 12 anlogue inputs without ADAT, and 28 with. Plenty of room to grow. And I like the idea of Totalmix being able to route all those inputs to anywhere I want.


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## Virtuoso (Jun 13, 2020)

StillLife said:


> This would mean I'd go for usb2 instead of TB, but I figure usb2 will be future proof also, as so much pc periferals use it.


USB2 is fine for the UFX II - you can run all inputs and outputs at the same time with no bandwidth issues. RME drivers are excellent and very low latency.

If you're not already invested in the UA ecosystem, I wouldn't recommend it any more. Ten years ago they were at the top of the game and the plugins are certainly high quality, but so are many 3rd party alternatives now which are often cheaper and better specced (for example, UA still don't have side chain or MIDI support). The chips are underpowered so you will quickly run out of DSP if you use the more demanding recent plugins and find yourself needing to expand your system further with Octo Satellites @ $1200 each.


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## StillLife (Jun 13, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> USB2 is fine for the UFX II - you can run all inputs and outputs at the same time with no bandwidth issues. RME drivers are excellent and very low latency.
> 
> If you're not already invested in the UA ecosystem, I wouldn't recommend it any more. Ten years ago they were at the top of the game and the plugins are certainly high quality, but so are many 3rd party alternatives now which are often cheaper and better specced (for example, UA still don't have side chain or MIDI support). The chips are underpowered so you will quickly run out of DSP if you use the more demanding recent plugins and find yourself needing to expand your system further with Octo Satellites @ $1200 each.


Thanks, sound advice. The Apollo's do allure, but I think the rme suits me much better. And yes, I already own some very good plugin bundles (izotope, soundtoys) and have never felt the weren't sufficient for my needs. I think Universal Audio is, besided very high quality obviously, quite good at creating need.


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## Pictus (Jun 14, 2020)

The problem is with old audio Interfaces version 1, version 2 or 3 is OK 
https://forum.gigabyte.us/thread/6193/thunderbolt-bios-fix-z390-designare?page=8
The StarTech Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 works ok

And this TB 2 cable 


For low audio latency performance:








Gearspace.com - View Single Post - Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base


Post 14004379 -Forum for professional and amateur recording engineers to share techniques and advice.



www.gearslutz.com


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## StillLife (Jun 14, 2020)

Thank you very much, Pictus. You also helped me out last year, when I was contemplating my new pc.
Good to know TB is an option (with the right cables), but that list also shows I shouldn't be too worried when going usb2. My preferred interface (UFX II) is not on the list, but I reckon it will rank below the UFX+usb3 and above the UCX's, in the upper half of the list.


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## StillLife (Jun 15, 2020)

Just to let you know: I bought a RME UFX II. Should be arriving within two days. Thanks for the help!


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