# Serum still relevant ?



## Trancer (Mar 4, 2022)

Is Serum still worth it in 2022 given the competition?

Vital

Icarus 2

If so why beyond the visualization of wavetables, etc...?

The effects compared to other more recent vst still as effective?

I'm not denigrating the Serum in any way, it's certainly still an excellent vst, but there is competition, hence the reason for my question.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 4, 2022)

Suppose you have Serum and you are able to make terrific music with it. I’d argue that fact alone would imply it is still relevant. Since I am convinced this is still possible, regardless of the very capable competition, in my book this also means Serum is still relevant.

Much in the same way an old hardware synth like a Minimoog is still relevant. Or a 75 year old Bb clarinet.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 4, 2022)

I don't have Serum, but I was under the impression that it still rated as amongst the very best for its oscillators and wave table design. It is supposed to be very good at counteracting artifacts. 

I don't know about its effects or modulation options. I haven't seen much about them.

So, unless there have been advances in counteracting aliasing (through oversampling I guess), I'd think it would still be state of the art where it counts most.


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## paularthur (Mar 4, 2022)

Trancer said:


> Is Serum still worth it in 2022 given the competition?
> 
> Vital
> 
> ...


Very versatile.


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## Trancer (Mar 4, 2022)

Thank you for your answers and opinions.

I do not question the quality of Serum, it is a powerful vst.

I'm not saying that as not too old or no longer good.

Sylenth 1 for example is quite dated and it is still used and still offers excellent sound reproduction.

I was just wondering about the relevance of buying Serum against Vital or Icarus 2.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 4, 2022)

The problem of your question (for me) is that it is not at all clear what the definition of relevance is, in this particular context. How would one go about determining whether Serum is as relevant as another synthesizer that is more or less based on the same design principles?

Maybe ultimately just check if you like Serum’s sound character, UI/UX and general workflow - against those of the other contenders? I can’t think of any good examples of synths having lost their relevance. Maybe other than obvious reasons, such as developer support breakdown, no available updates for newer OS, lack of 64 bit support etc. Given the HUGE marketshare of Serum one could argue it is in fact one of the most relevant softsynths ever released. The “ecosystem” of the synth genuinely makes it a platform of sorts. And I guess it will play that role for a while longer.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 4, 2022)

Of course, if ‘relevant’ actually means “hip” or “current” then there are likely newer and on-the-surface-perhaps-seemingly-cooler synths out there


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## rrichard63 (Mar 4, 2022)

If you rely on presets at all, a large number of preset libraries are available for Serum -- much larger than for most newer synths. That fact alone gives it one sort of relevance.

I think a better way to phrase the question is: "if I already have X, Y and Z other synths, how much does Serum add for me?"


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## el-bo (Mar 4, 2022)

Here's another perspective:


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## Crowe (Mar 4, 2022)

Serum is one of my main Synths. I don't particularly believe in 'relevance'. Some people may say it's useless now that Vital exists and I think those people are childish. I wouldn't trade it in for anything, though I admit there's some things that Vital does better, just like there's things Serum does better than Vital.

I don't really know what to tell you, other than that Serum is fantastic and no amount of other Synths is going to change that.


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## el-bo (Mar 4, 2022)

Crowe said:


> Serum is one of my main Synths. I don't particularly believe in 'relevance'. Some people may say it's useless now that Vital exists and I think those people are childish. I wouldn't trade it in for anything, though I admit there's some things that Vital does better, just like there's things Serum does better than Vital.
> 
> I don't really know what to tell you, other than that Serum is fantastic and no amount of other Synths is going to change that


I don't see why one should negate the other any more than any one subtractive synth would negate another. But then again, it's not normal for a free synth to be so well spec'd. And while that still doesn't change my first point, I'd imagine for many that don't already own it, buying Serum would not be such an easy choice as it might've been at one point.


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## MauroPantin (Mar 4, 2022)

The tools don't make the artist. Serum is great. Vital is, too. Just get the one that seems most convenient and learn to use it well.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 4, 2022)

el-bo said:


> I'd imagine for many that don't already own it, buying Serum would not be such an easy choice as it might've been at one point.


Exactly. I haven't bought it because it's never on sale. Now, with Vital and other wavetable synths on my hard drive, I'm undecided about it.


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## Crowe (Mar 4, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Exactly. I haven't bought it because it's never on sale. Now, with Vital and other wavetable synths on my hard drive, I'm undecided about it.


I've done the rent-to-own thing for serum and I think splice allows for a test period so you can always try it.

Edit: honestly, if 'hipness' is the driving factor just get Phaseplant and be done with it, really.


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## Pier (Mar 4, 2022)

Vital is technically better in probably every aspect, and it's still being improved. I know for a fact there's a big UI update coming up.

That said, does that make Serum irrelevant? Not at all. People have personal preferences.

I mean, Jazzanova still use an old Atari to compose all their music and they are doing alright:



My main synth is Zebra, as outdated as it is in some aspects. God knows I've tried or owned almost every virtual synth in existence and I just go back to it after owning it since 2010.

When you click with something that gets you into the creative zone, it's priceless. No amount of new features can change that.


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## Pier (Mar 4, 2022)

Crowe said:


> Edit: honestly, if 'hipness' is the driving factor is just get Phaseplant and be done with it, really.


True, but that doesn't make PhasePlant any less fucking amazing 😂


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## Crowe (Mar 4, 2022)

Pier said:


> True, but that doesn't make PhasePlant any less fucking amazing 😂


I fully agree


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## sostenuto (Mar 4, 2022)

Do some of these responses vary _ if potential purchaser does not work in EDM _at all_ ?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have evolved perspectives much from PluginGuru Livestreams / Videos _ he has consistently discussed Serum in positive terms. Yet, Guru is also heavily tuned to EDM, continuing with development of UNIFY. 🤷🏻


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## doctoremmet (Mar 4, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Do some of these responses vary _ if potential purchaser does not work in EDM _at all_ ?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Have evolved perspectives much from PluginGuru Livestreams / Videos _ he has consistently discussed Serum in positive terms. Yet, Guru is also heavily tuned to EDM, continuing with development of UNIFY. 🤷🏻


No, not in my opinion. Serum can make a lot of non-EDM noises too, and there’s a ton of quote-unquote cinematic sounddesign-y preset packs out there as well, if that’s your fancy.

Example:


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## sostenuto (Mar 4, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> No, not in my opinion. Serum can make a lot of non-EDM noises too, and there’s a ton of quote-unquote cinematic sounddesign-y preset packs out there as well, if that’s your fancy.
> 
> Example:



THX ! _ 'cinematic sounddesign-y' would be my fancy _ in Serum's case. 
Sorry to prolong, but OP interest with Vital, resurfaces, as well as ongoing personal leanings to PhasePlant. 
Main tools today remain Omni 2.8, Repro 1-5, Pigments 3.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 4, 2022)

Pigments 3 is a pretty capable wavetable synth… just saying. So for a “Serum wishlist item” I’d pick the free Vital and be done with that.


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## sostenuto (Mar 4, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Pigments 3 is a pretty capable wavetable synth… just saying. So for a “Serum wishlist item” I’d pick the free Vital and be done with that.


Thank-you, Temme ! Purchased Vital after trialing. Thinking Guru Lehmkuhl has something coming related to UNIFY / Vital ?


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## Crowe (Mar 4, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Do some of these responses vary _ if potential purchaser does not work in EDM _at all_ ?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Have evolved perspectives much from PluginGuru Livestreams / Videos _ he has consistently discussed Serum in positive terms. Yet, Guru is also heavily tuned to EDM, continuing with development of UNIFY. 🤷🏻


I don't do EDM. I do industrial, horror, suspense and Sfx. I generally prefer using organic sounds in Serum and warping those.

EDM is exceedingly easy to do in Serum but it's definitely not all it can do.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 4, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Thank-you, Temme ! Purchased Vital after trialing. Thinking Guru Lehmkuhl has something coming related to UNIFY / Vital ?


Lehmkuhl will have us covered. I am sure of it


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## cedricm (Mar 4, 2022)

Trancer said:


> Is Serum still worth it in 2022 given the competition?
> 
> Vital
> 
> ...


In my opinion, no. Vital is a perfect replacement at half the price. 
The only plus of serum is the enormous amount of presets that can be found /purchased. 
I recommend you try Vital for a month for $5, deductible if you decide to purchase the pro version.


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## vitocorleone123 (Mar 4, 2022)

cedricm said:


> In my opinion, no. Vital is a perfect replacement at half the price.
> The only plus of serum is the enormous amount of presets that can be found /purchased.
> I recommend you try Vital for a month for $5, deductible if you decide to purchase the pro version.


If you love and work regularly with wavetables, I’d think Serum is very relevant. If you own it, there’s also nothing stopping you from also getting Vital.

I have Vital ($25) and almost never use it, have looked at Serum and didn’t buy it, preferring Hive2 for anything VA/wavetable-y. I use my Digitone more than Hive2 now. For me, wavetable in general isn’t very relevant.

As has been said: unless something stops working, it’s relevant if the person using it decided it’s relevant.


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## Trancer (Mar 4, 2022)

Thank you for your answers and opinions.

Serum seems to be very versatile.

I have a lot of vst, but it's true I would like a wavetable vst, which I miss as specific sounds.

Vital is a complement to Serum.

At the beginning I was more on Icarus 2 because more possibilities, then hesitation with Serum and Vital.

I'm going to take Icarus 2, because I really like its interface and sounds, even if there are wavetables, it's more general despite everything.

I'm thinking of trying Vital for free, if I agree with how it works, I'll buy the paid version.

Otherwise, I will take Serum in addition to the free version of Vital.

It seems like a good compromise.


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## sostenuto (Mar 4, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> If you love and work regularly with wavetables, I’d think Serum is very relevant. If you own it, there’s also nothing stopping you from also getting Vital.
> 
> I have Vital ($25) and almost never use it, have looked at Serum and didn’t buy it, preferring Hive2 for anything VA/wavetable-y. I use my Digitone more than Hive2 now. For me, wavetable in general isn’t very relevant.
> 
> As has been said: unless something stops working, it’s relevant if the person using it decided it’s relevant.


......... dented Hive 2 place on short list, _yet Vital covers somewhat_. You likely posted elsewhere, but interested in your FM softsynth preference _ as a Digitone user /fan.


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## sostenuto (Mar 4, 2022)

Trancer said:


> Thank you for your answers and opinions.
> 
> Serum seems to be very versatile.
> 
> ...


.............. and maybe follow PluginGuru Livestreams for his UNIFY announcements coming soon _ with Vital expansion. He has been supportive of Vital since Intro and the expansion should be notable _ imho


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## vitocorleone123 (Mar 4, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> ......... dented Hive 2 place on short list, _yet Vital covers somewhat_. You likely posted elsewhere, but interested in your FM softsynth preference _ as a Digitone user /fan.


I'm a baby when it comes to FM.

I haven't dug deep on the PC, because FM is new to me since the Digitone in late 2020. I did pick up OPS7 because it sounds great and I grabbed 50,000+ presets free off the Internet I can randomly jump between, but it's much more complex/powerful in terms of programming FM. I'll try F'em at some point, as well. I have FRMS demo installed right now, but it can't be resized and is a little small given the complexity of the controls - I was hoping they'd have fixed that since v1 when I tried it once before.


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## sostenuto (Mar 4, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I'm a baby when it comes to FM.
> 
> I haven't dug deep on the PC, because FM is new to me since the Digitone in late 2020. I did pick up OPS7 because it sounds great and I grabbed 50,000+ presets free off the Internet I can randomly jump between, but it's much more complex/powerful in terms of programming FM. I'll try F'em at some point, as well. I have FRMS demo installed right now, but it can't be resized and is a little small given the complexity of the controls - I was hoping they'd have fixed that since v1 when I tried it once before.


Much appreciated ! F.'em remains top of FM SSynth shortlist.
Your post led to look at Digitone module.
Hoping it can be as good a choice as Keys version. Will drive with older Axiom Pro 61, or KK S-49.
Wanted hrdwr synth for long time, and this could be fine start.

Regards


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## cedricm (Mar 4, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> If you love and work regularly with wavetables, I’d think Serum is very relevant. If you own it, there’s also nothing stopping you from also getting Vital.
> 
> I have Vital ($25) and almost never use it, have looked at Serum and didn’t buy it, preferring Hive2 for anything VA/wavetable-y. I use my Digitone more than Hive2 now. For me, wavetable in general isn’t very relevant.
> 
> As has been said: unless something stops working, it’s relevant if the person using it decided it’s relevant.


Well,
I was answering from the point of view of someone not having Serum and looking for alternatives. There are definitive pluses of Vital vs Serum, not even accounting for the price difference, a quick search in YouTube will list long-time users and why they switched.

Fully agree with you: if you're happy with a synth, a software or a device, there's no reason to change just for the sake of change.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 5, 2022)

In my estimation at least a few of those “Meet the Serum killer” / “I switched to Vital. What happened next will shock you!”videos and thumbnails were obvious clickbait. At least 75% of all the review channels I am subscribed to on YT send me “shocking” titles on a daily basis.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 5, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> In my estimation at least a few of those “Meet the Serum killer” / “I switched to Vital. What happened next will shock you!”videos and thumbnails were obvious clickbait. At least 75% of all the review channels I am subscribed to on YT send me “shocking” titles on a daily basis.


@ChrisSiuMusic would never do that, though:




He makes great videos, though!


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Mar 5, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> @ChrisSiuMusic would never do that, though:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL true


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## LA68 (Mar 5, 2022)

Trancer said:


> Is Serum still worth it in 2022 given the competition?
> 
> Vital
> 
> ...


There's always a new hot thing on the market, but if you like the way it sounds and the way it's operated, I don't see why it wouldn't be worth it anymore. In fact, why not give all of them a try? The base version of Vital is free and Icarus has a trial version.

Personally, I'm still using much older synths - they aren't as nice to operate, but they still sound good/great to me and are still every bit as capable. And in the end, I doubt anyone will be able to tell the difference on a finished track anyway.


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## Pier (Mar 5, 2022)

LA68 said:


> The base version of Vital is free


When paying you only get more presets and wavetables. The synth is always the same in all tiers.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 5, 2022)

I don't know how long it will be there, but if Phaseplant is being considered, it's on Knobcloud for $90 or $130 including the starter toolbox effects.


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## LA68 (Mar 5, 2022)

Pier said:


> When paying you only get more presets and wavetables. The synth is always the same in all tiers.


It's an extremely generous offering, no doubt about. People that get into making music these days sure are lucky, no comparison to what was free 10, 15 years ago )

I'd totally buy the Pro version of this, but I already have (and love) Largo. Not sure if I can justify it with all the other awesome stuff out there :D


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## KEM (Mar 5, 2022)

Serum is awesome


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 5, 2022)

KEM said:


> Serum is awesome


That settles that, then!


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## KEM (Mar 5, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That settles that, then!



My opinions do hold weight around here that’s for sure!!


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## sostenuto (Mar 5, 2022)

So many long-time Users, and trustworthy accolades. 

_Question from a different perspective_ _ where does Serum rank today for potential new users @ $189. site cost ?


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## doctoremmet (Mar 5, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> So many long-time Users, and trustworthy accolades.
> 
> _Question from a different perspective_ _ where does Serum rank today for potential new users @ $189. site cost ?


For that amount of money I’d definitely consider grabbing Bazille, Vital and something like Abyss (on a sale). Or Phase Plant for that matter. I also think Hive 2 is in that price range and frankly I like its sonic character better. But all of these observations are likely very personal.

TL;DR It is quite a hefty price tag. But then again, I am a Serum owner but have never been really passionate about it - for no good reason. It’s a bit like Pigments another synth I ‘recognize’ and appreciate yet for no good reason never REALLY developed a passionate loving relationship with 

Really TL;DR
No


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## KEM (Mar 5, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> So many long-time Users, and trustworthy accolades.
> 
> _Question from a different perspective_ _ where does Serum rank today for potential new users @ $189. site cost ?



Serum is a bit expensive at its price point, but I don’t think it’s unwarranted. If you’re doing media composition work you can get stuff that works better in that field for cheaper, but for EDM and very modern synthesis it’s hard to beat Serum, and it’s worth the price for that application


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## doctoremmet (Mar 5, 2022)

KEM said:


> Serum is a bit expensive at its price point, but I don’t think it’s unwarranted. If you’re doing media composition work you can get stuff that works better in that field for cheaper, but for EDM and very modern synthesis it’s hard to beat Serum, and it’s worth the price for that application


I concur. Albeit rationally


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## doctoremmet (Mar 5, 2022)

@sostenuto 

Check this though:






Also, I just want to say I highly respect Steve. He’s a true synth hero and pioneer.




Edit: and I tell you what. I am going to fire up Serum tonight and get reacquainted! 

PS: I always forget about Massive X. Like the rest of this forum… might start that one up too. The orphanage of my synth collection gets a visitor today


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## vitocorleone123 (Mar 5, 2022)

KEM said:


> very modern synthesis


Does that mean trendy? Not sure what that means. Asking for a friend....


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## KEM (Mar 5, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Does that mean trendy? Not sure what that means. Asking for a friend....



Ehhh kinda, dubstep and EDM synthesis, not super trendy but it does have its place


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 5, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Does that mean trendy? Not sure what that means. Asking for a friend....


Hmm. I thought retro was trendy. So modern must be out of fashion.


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## apollinaire (Mar 6, 2022)

I personally love Serum. It sounds unique has quite a range sonically....from weird/experimental to soft/pretty


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 6, 2022)

apollinaire said:


> I personally love Serum. It sounds unique has quite a range sonically....from weird/experimental to soft/pretty



They all sound great to me! I'm very favourably impressed.


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## sostenuto (Mar 6, 2022)

Cool Thread, and surely Serum is relevant today. Yet, so many capable softsynths since 2014.
This Andrew Huang YT vid both strengthens Phase Plant leanings, and intimidates with his tweaking prowess.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 6, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Cool Thread, and surely Serum is relevant today. Yet, so many capable softsynths since 2014.
> This Andrew Huang YT both strengthens Phase Plant leanings, and intimidates with his tweaking prowess.




It's all about that 10,000 hours, I expect!


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## AnhrithmonGelasma (Mar 6, 2022)

Unless it's changed since I last checked (doesn't seem to have), Xfer no longer allows license transfers for Serum; so on top of being much more expensive to begin with, once you buy it, you're stuck with it. (Not sure whether Vital allows license transfers, though since the paid version only provides more presets + unlimited text-to-wavetable I'd guess not.)

While Serum still has a much larger number of third party preset libraries, apparently the wavetables will also work in Vital. Of course there's (usually) more to a preset than the wavetables, though....


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## sostenuto (Mar 6, 2022)

Has Serum had notable Updates since Intro in 2014 ? When was most recent ? Has it improved, and in what ways ?


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## R10k (Mar 6, 2022)

All of these synths have different sound signatures (a sine wave in one, for example, isn't the same as in another). Vital to my ears isn't as smooth sounding as Serum. It sounds very computery - quite harsh. There was something about it from the get-go that I didn't like. For my tastes I'd choose Serum over it. The same goes for Pigments 3. It lacks a fatness I really enjoy in a synth. But, it depends on what you like.

Just ignore what people are using. As long as it still works and is supported, play with a synth and decide if you personally like it. Recently I went back to Thorn, and have been having an absolute blast with it. I never hear about it on here. It's like it doesn't exist, but it's an absolute cracker.


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## Pier (Mar 6, 2022)

R10k said:


> Vital to my ears isn't as smooth sounding as Serum. It sounds very computery - quite harsh. There was something about it from the get-go that I didn't like. For my tastes I'd choose Serum over it. The same goes for Pigments 3. It lacks a fatness I really enjoy in a synth. But, it depends on what you like.


There's this video comparing Diva and Serum. I've never used Serum but it does sound quite good.




And I agree about Pigments.


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## el-bo (Mar 6, 2022)

+1 4 Thorn.


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## Trancer (Mar 6, 2022)

Thank you for your answers and opinions.

Serum is unquestionably an excellent vst just like Vital.

Indeed Vital, perhaps an impression, it sounds harder, straighter which is not at all negative.

I will be curious to know the evolution of Serum and when it will be available.

Thanks for the video links too.

Phaseplant is a very good vst, but expensive, because the effects pack seems essential and the price goes up to more than 300 euros.

But a very complete vst.


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## Pier (Mar 7, 2022)

Trancer said:


> Phaseplant is a very good vst, but expensive, because the effects pack seems essential and the price goes up to more than 300 euros.
> 
> But a very complete vst.


I think it's amazing and it will only get better as KiloHearts are continually working on it and adding effects.

My only gripe with it is that it doesn't have a sequencer and arpeggiator which are essential for cinematic sounds.


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## Crowe (Mar 7, 2022)

Trancer said:


> Phaseplant is a very good vst, but expensive, because the effects pack seems essential and the price goes up to more than 300 euros.


If you're operating out of that particular POV, it may not be very good value.

Kilohearts is one-of-a-kind in that it's a full Sound-Design Suite and all of its individual parts are usable in conjunction with one another, but also separate from each other. I don't think the full Phaseplant set is worth it if you're not also using Snapheap, Multipass or the individual parts by themselves.

Fact is, before I started using Phaseplant as one of my mainstays my most-used KH plugin was Transient Shaper and the set was *still* worth the 10,- a month. Which is basically Rent to Own.

In my point of view, you have an overcomplete set of sound-design tools for a couple hundred bucks and for a hundred more you have an overpowered synthesizer that can use all of it.

That you pay off in instalments of 10 bucks a month. With free updates while it's running. This stuff's insane.


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## Pier (Mar 7, 2022)

Crowe said:


> it's a full Sound-Design Suite


And the fact you can load it all inside a synth is just mind blowing.

Once they add an arp, sequencer, and a couple of other features like multi samples, granular, etc, they will be ready for world domination.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 7, 2022)

Pier said:


> And the fact you can load it all inside a synth is just mind blowing.
> 
> Once they add an arp, sequencer, and a couple of other features like multi samples, granular, etc, they will be ready for world domination.



One day. One day soon, if it adds all that, it could be half as good as Falcon.


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## chomeaso (Mar 7, 2022)

Just my thought on these things. Guys making presets are the ones who know what's relevant on the market. I go to place like 'ADSR' or 'Splice', etc and see what kind of preset packs are coming out lately and what's it made of. For that reason, I think it's safe to think Serum is very much relevant. I also make cinematic presets myself to use in my own works. luv it


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## doctoremmet (Mar 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> One day. One day soon, if it adds all that, it could be half as good as Falcon.


Nah. No IRCAM no world domination.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 7, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Nah. No IRCAM no world domination.



Truth.


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## Pier (Mar 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> One day. One day soon, if it adds all that, it could be half as good as Falcon.


I agree PhasePlant is a very basic sampler, but I think it's already a better synth.

I mean just by the fact that it gets me inspired to do stuff. Unlike Falcon that... ok you already my opinion on Falcon 😂



doctoremmet said:


> Nah. No IRCAM no world domination.


Omnisphere and Kontakt would like a word!

When talking with Linus from KH he did mention new timestretching algos though. Probably no IRCAM algos as the licensing is complicated. AFAIK UVI is the only company using it (outside of IRCAM itself).


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 7, 2022)

Pier said:


> I agree PhasePlant is a very basic sampler, but I think it's already a better synth.
> 
> I mean just by the fact that it gets me inspired to do stuff. Unlike Falcon that... ok you already my opinion on Falcon 😂
> 
> ...


That's alright, not everyone can be inspired by and to greatness. We all have our limitations; but do you have to wear yours on your sleeve?


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 7, 2022)

I should add that @Pier is one heck of a sound designer and makes me look (sound) like the superannuated neonate that I am.


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## Pier (Mar 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I should add that @Pier is one heck of a sound designer


Thanks Bee you're too kind.

I consider myself pretty average compared to the real pros out there. If anything my biggest quality is my courage to put my stuff out there 😂


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 7, 2022)

Pier said:


> Thanks Bee you're too kind.
> 
> I consider myself pretty average compared to the real pros out there. If anything my biggest quality is my courage to put my stuff out there 😂



Bravery and shamelessness, I always get those two confused.


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## Pier (Mar 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Bravery and shamelessness, I always get those two confused.


Oh no I assure you there's plenty of shame.


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## Trancer (Mar 10, 2022)

Thanks again for your feedback and reviews.

I looked at Phaseplant a bit and indeed, it has a lot of potential.

Even if I'm not really for the design and research of sounds, Phaseplant really invites the user to dive into it completely.


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## creativeforge (Mar 11, 2022)

I've been listening to this ▼ for half an hour and SERUM made it on my wishlist in short order.



https://www.luftrum.com/heypads/



I wasn't aware of its ability to create gorgeous pads like these... I'm not really drawn to detailed editing or sounds, but I love well designed presets and this one sounds truly awesome. But some people will also love Serum for its versatility and creating custom patches.


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## liquidlino (Mar 11, 2022)

creativeforge said:


> I've been listening to this ▼ for half an hour and SERUM made it on my wishlist in short order.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you like lovely synth pads - have you heard the pads from UVI Vintage Vault, or Synth Anthology? Some stunning pads in there (as well as bass, plucks, etc). And Pigments does beautiful Pads too - personally I think pads are pigments sweet spot, its killer use-case.


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## liquidlino (Mar 11, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> If you like lovely synth pads - have you heard the pads from UVI Vintage Vault, or Synth Anthology? Some stunning pads in there (as well as bass, plucks, etc). And Pigments does beautiful Pads too - personally I think pads are pigments sweet spot, its killer use-case.


Quick noodle of some Vintage Vault pads to demonstrate (there's 11,000 patches, so it's hard to pick favourites!):

View attachment VV Pads.mp3


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## creativeforge (Mar 11, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> Quick noodle of some Vintage Vault pads to demonstrate (there's 11,000 patches, so it's hard to pick favourites!):
> 
> View attachment VV Pads.mp3


Thanks, some nice ones in there...


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## sostenuto (Mar 12, 2022)

Recall trusted Guru making positive comments re. Spire pads ..... Need to check for top 3rd Pty creators' offerings.


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## richmwhitfield (Mar 12, 2022)

I think the vast majority of synths can create nice pads. They are definitely among the easier presets to create and, to me, the most fun to create.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 12, 2022)

richmwhitfield said:


> I think the vast majority of synths can create nice pads. They are definitely among the easier presets to create and, to me, the most fun to create.



True, but different synths excel at different kinds of nice pads!


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## richmwhitfield (Mar 12, 2022)

Yeah very fair point


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## richmwhitfield (Mar 12, 2022)

Just because Serum doesn't have granular doesn't make it 'a little constrained in what it can do' - anytime you can load a sample/wavetable into a synth there are almost (edit) limitless possibilities - unless you want a very specific granular sound.

Not Serum but a similar synth Vital, also doesn't have granular, but check out this video -


Just for context, I actually like Pigments more than Serum


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 12, 2022)

richmwhitfield said:


> Just because Serum doesn't have granular does make it 'a little constrained in what it can do' - anytime you can load a sample/wavetable into a synth there are almost (edit) limitless possibilities - unless you want a very specific granular sound.
> 
> Not Serum but a similar synth Vital, also doesn't have granular, but check out this video -
> 
> ...




That's a really interesting approach.

In Falcon, I do something similar with samples without converting them to wavetables. The method I use roughly randomises the sample start point with each new key press.


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## LA68 (Mar 12, 2022)

richmwhitfield said:


> I think the vast majority of synths can create nice pads. They are definitely among the easier presets to create and, to me, the most fun to create.


Yeah, I absolutely agree and it's my favorite type of preset too. Not sure if I'm alone with that, but from a listening perspective I actually prefer pads that don't have too much going on anyway. Simplicity can be beautiful.


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## vitocorleone123 (Mar 12, 2022)

R10k said:


> All of these synths have different sound signatures (a sine wave in one, for example, isn't the same as in another). Vital to my ears isn't as smooth sounding as Serum. It sounds very computery - quite harsh. There was something about it from the get-go that I didn't like. For my tastes I'd choose Serum over it. The same goes for Pigments 3. It lacks a fatness I really enjoy in a synth. But, it depends on what you like.
> 
> Just ignore what people are using. As long as it still works and is supported, play with a synth and decide if you personally like it. Recently I went back to Thorn, and have been having an absolute blast with it. I never hear about it on here. It's like it doesn't exist, but it's an absolute cracker.


Vital sounds more like my analog synths - more alive. Total smoothness is what’s “computery” to me. Like Pigments 3 was way to smooth and boring to me so I sold it.

Thorn is awesomely and unapologetically digital sounding. Good stuff.


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## AnhrithmonGelasma (Mar 12, 2022)

richmwhitfield said:


> I think the vast majority of synths can create nice pads. They are definitely among the easier presets to create and, to me, the most fun to create.


They can also be some of the most fun to play on an MPE controller like the Seaboard.... Serum and Vital do both have MPE. (Though I'd generally prefer Equator2 or Cypher2 for making patches to play with the Seaboard.)


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## R10k (Mar 13, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Vital sounds more like my analog synths - more alive. Total smoothness is what’s “computery” to me. Like Pigments 3 was way to smooth and boring to me so I sold it.
> 
> Thorn is awesomely and unapologetically digital sounding. Good stuff.


Well that's a super interesting perspective! I'll have to revisit Vital, after spending a week dreaming about a Matriarch 😂 That said, I don't think all analog synths have that 'alive' characteristic but I definitely know what you mean.

For now, just enjoying OB-E V2, which feels less computery than a lot of soft synths...

EDIT: had another listen to Vital. It's just not doing it for me personally. It lacks... a fullness to it, for want of a better term. But, for those who like it, definitely a bargain.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 14, 2022)

I like the discussion of synths being more alive than others more than buying a new one. Warmth, organic…mhhhhmmm….spacious or more Z dimensional. A softie that has the ability to tweak each voice can cover most of that magic. The distinct character of some synth can be recreated on most softies without missing the goal. Its no shame to eq or distort in the box. A clean sounding softie can be driven for happy emulation, and its harder to remove a certain character from one. Serum sounding digital and hash (lifeless) is just a matter
if you expect that warmth at init.


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## vitocorleone123 (Mar 14, 2022)

R10k said:


> Well that's a super interesting perspective! I'll have to revisit Vital, after spending a week dreaming about a Matriarch 😂 That said, I don't think all analog synths have that 'alive' characteristic but I definitely know what you mean.
> 
> For now, just enjoying OB-E V2, which feels less computery than a lot of soft synths...
> 
> EDIT: had another listen to Vital. It's just not doing it for me personally. It lacks... a fullness to it, for want of a better term. But, for those who like it, definitely a bargain.


I've yet to hear a "full sounding" wavetable synth, myself, out of the ones I've tried. To me, wavetable synths have to be layered, programmed, etc. That's not a slight to Vital, or Serum, or etc etc. Probably the best sounding one I've heard, spoiled for me by a poor interface, is Massive X (I sold it).

I dream of the SE-3X, so I get you. And, right, not all analog synths have that alive characteristic, though it seems more prevalent (but not guaranteed?) in VCO analog synths.


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## AnhrithmonGelasma (Mar 14, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I've yet to hear a "full sounding" wavetable synth, myself, out of the ones I've tried. To me, wavetable synths have to be layered, programmed, etc. That's not a slight to Vital, or Serum, or etc etc. Probably the best sounding one I've heard, spoiled for me by a poor interface, is Massive X (I sold it).
> 
> I dream of the SE-3X, so I get you. And, right, not all analog synths have that alive characteristic, though it seems more prevalent (but not guaranteed?) in VCO analog synths.


Gives the advantage to synths that do more than just wavetable synthesis IMO... though in a dense mix of course thinness can be a virtue.


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## Nimrod7 (May 2, 2022)

Sorry for resurrecting, but I thought to ask here instead of spinning up another thread. 

I had purchased Vital after reading this post. I barely used the free version before but I thought to buy the Pro version to support the dev (and show my appreciation for giving access to everyone).

I was hopping to utilize it in the next projects a bit more, however by navigating the presets, some of them are loading instantly, some doing a few seconds to load, and some other more like 30 seconds! 

Is that normal? I know it's loading wavetables on the backend, but 20-30 seconds is long time. 
Anyone experiencing this issue?


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## Pier (May 2, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> Sorry for resurrecting, but I thought to ask here instead of spinning up another thread.
> 
> I had purchased Vital after reading this post. I barely used the free version before but I thought to buy the Pro version to support the dev (and show my appreciation for giving access to everyone).
> 
> ...


20-30 seconds isn't normal.

Are you using the 1.5 beta? If so, this could be a bug.


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## Nimrod7 (May 2, 2022)

Pier said:


> 20-30 seconds isn't normal.
> 
> Are you using the 1.5 beta? If so, this could be a bug.


Thanks Pier,

No I am using 1.0.7, which is the only one in my account. 
I didn't know a beta existed, maybe I can try that to see if it works any better.


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## Pier (May 2, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> Thanks Pier,
> 
> No I am using 1.0.7, which is the only one in my account.
> I didn't know a beta existed, maybe I can try that to see if it works any better.


In theory if you have a Pro account you should have access to the beta. I don't know where it's located though...


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## Nimrod7 (May 2, 2022)

Pier said:


> In theory if you have a Pro account you should have access to the beta. I don't know where it's located though...


There is a thread here in their forum:








Exploring Vital 1.5.1 update (beta pre-release)


hi, doesn’t open in logic pro ("The plug-in named “Vital” isn’t available on your system). i did reboot… (the auval tool crashed on first try.) logic 10.7.4, on os 12.4, intel mac logic report: validating Audio Unit Vital by Vital Audio: AU Validation Tool Version: 1.10.0 Copyright...




forum.vital.audio





Indeed just for Pro users, there is a button in my account called "All Downloads" that shows the beta once you click it. Is not immediately apparent that there is a beta available. I was thinking that this was to access older versions.


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## Bee_Abney (May 2, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> There is a thread here in their forum:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is there any chance that it is still downloading some presets? Doesn't Vital have an inbuilt 'shop' to buy new presets. I wonder if not all of the presets that you have acces to were downloaded with the initial installation.

I have the free version of Vital. For some reason, I can't use most presets in standalone, but I can in my DAW. So it may be that there is some kind of complication surrounding presets. (Or just that the standalone version I downloaded doesn't work very well on my system.)

It is a great sounding synth, so when (not if, I trust!) you get this sorted out, I'm sure you are going to find a lot of uses for it.


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## Nimrod7 (May 3, 2022)

Sorted out by downloading 1.5.1 beta.
Every preset now loading under 1 second.

Thanks so much for the help Bee & Pier!



Bee_Abney said:


> Is there any chance that it is still downloading some presets? Doesn't Vital have an inbuilt 'shop' to buy new presets.


I believe I had downloaded the preset packs .vitalbank which I then imported. Not sure if it was downloading on the fly to be honest.



Bee_Abney said:


> It is a great sounding synth, so when (not if, I trust!) you get this sorted out, I'm sure you are going to find a lot of uses for it.


I am sure! thank you!


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