# Korg Kronos users?



## dpasdernick (Nov 28, 2015)

Just wondering if there is anyone here that uses a Korg Kronos with their DAW? I think I'm going to buy one tomorrow and am hoping it will integrate well with Cubase. I have a Roland Integra 7 and the integration software that Roland wrote is really beautiful. The Integra acts just like a VST inside of Cubase and Cubase even remembers the settings. 

The Kronos has the cool feature called Karma and I'm also hoping that the interactivity will be as seamless as with the Integra.

If you have a Kronos and are using it with a DAW please let me know how it is working out for you.

All the very best,

Darren


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## chimuelo (Nov 29, 2015)

Lots of friends love it.
Use it live and use it with their DAWs since its a great controller too.
Maybe read up to see about a newer revision at NAMM.
Talk about a new CPU but nothing in stone yet.


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## apessino (Nov 29, 2015)

I have a Kronos X and love it, but... the integration is pathetic, don't get your hopes up. The Editor is a buggy, slow mess that looks like a reject from the 90s and the VST plugin is a joke - it's not even 64 bit. In fact, it does not work AT ALL with a 64 bit OS (I am talking about Windows here... I can't even remember a time where I've had a plugin that was not 64 bit). The Korg MIDI driver is pretty damn awful too, and the audio over USB is basically an audio interface, so it is also useless. My Kronos is connected to a UR824 via optical SPDIF, that works well enough as long as you have an interface that lets you toggle between ADAT and SPDIF for the optical I/O (the Steiberg UR824 does). Or you can always use the analog outs...

Anyhow, the Kronos is hugely powerful and it still has the best piano of all, in my opinion - the German Grand beats even the >60Gb monster VSTs I have on my drive, it combines samples and physical modeling and it sounds absolutely amazing. The Kronos is also quintessential Korg: obtuse and messy on the software side. It feels like a clunky DAW with a whole bunch of sound generators and a list of parameters and options so endless it will take you ages to get anywhere used to it.

For comparison, I have a Jupiter 80 that is just pure joy to explore and program. Nowhere near the depth or scope of a Kronos (I don't think anything does) but it feels like a musical instrument and encourages exploration and expressiveness, and enormously more fun - I find the Kronos to be a powerhouse but relatively sterile. Of course this is all just personal preference.

I don't mean to sound negative - like I said I love the Kronos, I think you will love it too, but you should know what to expect.


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## zolhof (Nov 29, 2015)

Hi Darren, 

you can use the Kronos as a VST inside Cubase, recall settings and all, but the free version of the editor only supports 32 bit DAWs. Low move by Korg if you ask me, they advertised this as a big thing and didn't mention you'd need to pay another $299 for the Midi Quest Pro upgrade and 64 bit plugin. 

It's usable standalone next to Cubase and there's a workaround to automate Kronos' parameters within Cubase, but it's too much of a hassle. If you really need this feature, upgrading the editor is the fastest solution. But honestly, just save your money, like apessino said, it's currently a big mess. I don't have any issues with the midi driver though, works just fine here.

On a brighter note, Kronos has pretty much killed my gearlust for other keyboards. As a gigging musician, the possibility of streaming user samples from the SSD was a big game changer to my workflow. I can only dream about the day we'll get more oscillators and DNC (dynamic nuance control, i.e. articulations) from the PA series, combined with sample streaming.. maybe Kronos 3? 

Good luck with your new keyboard, I'm sure you gonna love it!


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## dpasdernick (Nov 30, 2015)

Thanks for the tips guys. I had no idea I had to upgrade the editor to make it work with a 64 bit system. That sucks. The guy that makes the editor and plugin also makes MIDIquest which seems like a great idea but I have the demo version and can tell you it ain't pretty. Lots of negative responses to it as well online, plus the VST version is $369.00. I've bought a lot of hardware recently and have lost years of my life trying to get it to play nice with Cubase. I forgot what a pain in the a$$ it all is. 

I also just bought a Roland Integra and the VST interface for that is pure gold. It took a bit to get it going but it is really well designed. 

I may just take back the Kronos and splurge on Project Sam stuff. I love the idea of all of those synth engines but I've spent so much time messing around with hardware that I forgot about composing.

Thanks again for the words of wisdom. 

Darren


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## korgoasys (Nov 30, 2015)

Hi,

Interesting thread. We Korg users are in a distinct minority. I'm a pure hobbyist. I don't gig. I have its predecessor, the 0asys. Had it for 4 years. As I have said before, it's a sonic marvel. No issues save for one numeric pad slightly dodgy but no problem. If you look after it, it will look after you! Needless to say, it's my MIDI controller integrated with Cubase. Fiddly to set up all Karma outputs individually into Cubase but once done, they're there. Pity Korg didn't build in a mod-wheel but easy to get round. Some tips :-

(1) Buy Stephen Kay's Catalist Vol 1 & 2 (total 64 Combis/multis). Shows how versatile this thing is. $48 each. Works for Kronos.
(2) Follow the Korg Forums and the Karma-Lab forums (for general interest and for Catalyst). There are many knowledgeable users there.You'll also get Korg's R & D chief, I think.

I have this slant on the Kronos (probably ill-founded as I've not played it enough--only in showrooms), that the orchestral sounds both in Combis and Programs are not as strong, or, how can I describe, as 'pure' as in the O. They sound a little on the synthy side but I could be wrong. It's a matter of individual taste. Also, I'm not sold on the various pianos in the K. 

Chimuelo--------Do you gig the pianos only?

Regards,
Patrick


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## Bohrium (Nov 30, 2015)

I've got a Kronos 76, too, and use it with my DAWs.

The VST is not the best in the world, but if you want your DAW to remember the settings, you don't have much of a choice. Most of the time I actually record the sound coming out of it and the MIDI, too, so that I can reproduce the performance with another sound later, but I don't use the VST extensively unless I'm not sure of the sound and want to change it later which happens rather seldom.

It is a pretty good controller, but not a really great one, though.

Mine has never been out of the studio, but a friend of mine does gigs with it as an electric piano. Another guy I know always complains about the action.

As you can see, it's a mixed basket. I would not sell mine, but I would not buy it again either ... it's just too expensive for what you get if you don't take it on the road a lot.


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## dpasdernick (Nov 30, 2015)

More info from the developer of the VST editor.

"Cubase 7.5 is able to load 32-bit plug-ins in a 64-bit environment. You’ll find the problem is that Korg’s MIDI drivers can only run in either 32-bit mode or 64-bit mode so if you have the Kronos MIDI ports open in Cubase they will be open in 64-bit mode which will make them unavailable to the Korg editor in 32-bit mode."

The solution is to buy the full boat MIDIquest software for $299.00. That's a lot of extra money on top of the price of the Kronos.

Roland wrote a great piece of software for Integra and I was hoping Korg would have done the same. PooPoo to Korg for doing this. This is 2015. People are using software. If the hardware guys want us to patronize them they need to make these machines integrate into the workflow. I may take the bloody thing back. (and I was having such a wonderful day) 

EDIT: Very useful information guys. Thanks again for your insight. I have 30 days to decide whether I should keep it or return it. I could get a lot of software for the money I spent but there are some features and sounds that are truly spectacular.


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## chimuelo (Nov 30, 2015)

korgoasys said:


> Chimuelo--------Do you gig the pianos only?



Nope, don't even own one as I have become spoiled with Master MIDI Controllers.

I was simply replying about how many guys I know use Kronos with Receptors on the gig and DAWs at home.
They're quite happy but most likely have different DAWs I suppose.
Cubase and Logic are not the kind of DAW I would ever route hardware into.

The Pianos do sound good. I've heard them a few times now in live venues, and FOH guys basically use the Piano to EQ and set levels for all of the other patches.
Guy in Vegas I know still uses the Oasys as an all in one gigging Axe. Loves it.

Always wanted an all in one solution but just can't do without 8 x Ports and 8 x programmable 1/4" Continuous controllers.


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## apessino (Nov 30, 2015)

Bohrium said:


> The VST is not the best in the world, but if you want your DAW to remember the settings, you don't have much of a choice. Most of the time I actually record the sound coming out of it and the MIDI, too, so that I can reproduce the performance with another sound later, but I don't use the VST extensively unless I'm not sure of the sound and want to change it later which happens rather seldom.



Yup, that's what I do too - generally I just keep the audio + the MIDI performance and use a notepad to detail the patch/settings I used for each recorded event - very low tech.  

Another thing about the Kronos is that there are some great expansion libraries out there, but they are priced in the "WTF are you smoking" range. Seriously ridiculous for what you get. I spent a couple grand on expansions and the use I got out of them has been minimal - not because of how they sound (they are great) but because, again, of how clunky/unfriendly the OS is. Loading libraries is not as simple as saying 'load," not if you have enough of them... you have to know which banks they want to load themselves into, figure out how to remap them, how to point the patches to the samples, blah blah it is so backwards it is hilarious. Most of the time I wipe the whole memory and just load what I need for a session - trying to make it all coexist is just more work than it should be, ever. The Kronos OS has the ability to stream samples, it is built from the ground up for that, but they could not figure out a way to virtualize the way in which programs, combis and their associated data is loaded into memory. You are constantly running out of space, have to unload/remap/redirect your libraries to fit them into memory. It works (or it can work) but it is a PAIN. No other words for it.

Like I said... great sonic possibilities, disappointing UX and software implementation all around. As a gigging device I am sure it is wonderful, but in the studio it feels a bit like a relic.


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## korgoasys (Nov 30, 2015)

Reading the above, I think I'm rather a simplistic user of the Korg compared with others here. Nevertheless, I use the O as a VST within Cubase solely for marker tracks. I've got quite a few. I tweek the O in the O itself as far as I can go before recording. I edit the MIDI in Cubase but nothing else at that stage, before transfering to other VSTs. It's the pure sonic abilities of the O to construct multis (16 tracks per instance if you need it), that I enjoy time and time again. I find I get inspired more quickly this way than starting with, say, ProjectSam, or other VSTs with multis.

Regards,
Patrick


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## apessino (Nov 30, 2015)

dpasdernick said:


> Roland wrote a great piece of software for Integra and I was hoping Korg would have done the same. PooPoo to Korg for doing this. This is 2015. People are using software. If the hardware guys want us to patronize them they need to make these machines integrate into the workflow. I may take the bloody thing back. (and I was having such a wonderful day)



You mentioned the Integra, I mentioned the Jupiter 80... give it a try if you get a chance. That is how the software for a hardware synth should be made. Roland just "gets" what the user experience should be like for a musical instrument. Within 30 min of exploring the unit you'll be making new sounds, coming up with all kinds of new musical ideas and you will be 80% of the way to understanding everything the instrument can offer you. I have had the Kronos for almost 3 years and I am not there yet with it. It is not that the Kronos is "difficult," it is just that it is not an inviting platform to explore. It does not feel like a cohesive whole, more like a collection of separate entities packaged together to some extent - which is probably exactly how it has evolved. The lack of architectural intention shows everywhere in the user experience, see my comments about loading expansion libraries above.

BTW I have not even tried to integrate the J80 into my DAW (not even sure if you can, I've jsut had no reason to look yet), but just as an instrument to play it is a beauty. It is also built like a tank - you really don't appreciate build quality until you check out Roland build quality.


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## dpasdernick (Nov 30, 2015)

apessino said:


> You mentioned the Integra, I mentioned the Jupiter 80... give it a try if you get a chance. That is how the software for a hardware synth should be made. Roland just "gets" what the user experience should be like for a musical instrument. Within 30 min of exploring the unit you'll be making new sounds, coming up with all kinds of new musical ideas and you will be 80% of the way to understanding everything the instrument can offer you. I have had the Kronos for almost 3 years and I am not there yet with it. It is not that the Kronos is "difficult," it is just that it is not an inviting platform to explore. It does not feel like a cohesive whole, more like a collection of separate entities packaged together to some extent - which is probably exactly how it has evolved. The lack of architectural intention shows everywhere in the user experience, see my comments about loading expansion libraries above.
> 
> BTW I have not even tried to integrate the J80 into my DAW (not even sure if you can, I've jsut had no reason to look yet), but just as an instrument to play it is a beauty. It is also built like a tank - you really don't appreciate build quality until you check out Roland build quality.



Apessino,

I have watched a ton of youtube videos on the Jupiter 80 and it looks to do exactly what you say. Super inspiring and very user friendly. I had considered one of these but since I already have the Integra 7. A roland JD-990, a Roland D-550 and a RolandXP-80 loaded with 4 expansions, I really don't need more Roland in my palette. Especially since the Integra has everything the Jupiter 80 has as far as I know.

You nailed the head on the Kronos. It's like the engineers said "hey we had the MS-20, the Poly Six, the wavestation, the Triton... let's throw in some pianos and call it a day." It really is a incoherent mash up of 9 synth engines but, in a way, also a small miracle that you can combine them all together. I'm a huge fan of taking two or more sounds and layering them together. I do it all the time with the UVI software I have. I even do it with my Vienna stuff to create Symphobia-like layering. You'd think the Kronos would shine in this area and I'm sure it can, but does one have the stomach to wade through the interface. Especially when the standalone editor is as, how can I say it?, 1990's-ish?

I can tell you that the VST integration software that Roland made for the Integra (and I'm sure the same goes for the Jupiter 80) is top shelf. Check it out if you can.

Thanks for sharing your stories and keep 'em coming!

Darren


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## dpasdernick (Dec 1, 2015)

Update...

After much soul searching I have decided to return the Kronos. It's a beautiful keyboard but I have realized I do not need it. I played with it all last night. The pianos are brilliant, both acoustic and electric. The guitars, orchestral sounds, strings, basses etc all sound very synthy and even the Integra, let alone my software synths, outdo it. The synthesizer sounds, especially the wavetable stuff, were lovely. The drum track and Karma features are really great as well. If I was gigging I'd love it but after doing a bunch of research and even exchanging emails with the developer of the plugin I now know that this keyboard will never integrate into my workflow as I had hoped. (Again, using my Integra experience as being a benchmark) Not to mention the audio recording it can do that I would never use.

The moment of clarity came when I watched a youtube video of an orchestral soundset you could get for the Kronos made by Kapro. It sounded way better than the built in orchestral sounds. It costs $349.00. So I start telling my self "well I can plug up the weak orchestral sounds by buying this expansion set" Then, the lightbulb goes off... "I have Symphobia, Vienna, East West Gold, Albion and here I am thinking about spending more money to by sounds that will still not be as good as the software I have and will be torture to integrate into Cubase.... Duh?!"

My lust for the Kronos has been extinguished but as they say... it is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all..."

What a frickin' rollercoaster... 

Thanks for all of the input.

Darren

PS now to figure out how to spend the return money. The hunt is always better than the kill.


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## Nachivnik (Dec 1, 2015)

Thank you for posting your experience. I have just been lamenting that I could not buy a workstation, thinking about how nice it would be to have it all integrated into one cohesive whole. But, from your experience, it sounds like it can be as onesey-twosey as software on a computer. I had just decided to get the Korg Legacy Collection (six or so of the engines featured in the Kronos) and upgrade my midi controller. Your story helps to keep from looking over my shoulder at hardware (though I still may buy a Motif and/or Triton rack module).


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## dpasdernick (Dec 2, 2015)

Nachivnik said:


> Thank you for posting your experience. I have just been lamenting that I could not buy a workstation, thinking about how nice it would be to have it all integrated into one cohesive whole. But, from your experience, it sounds like it can be as onesey-twosey as software on a computer. I had just decided to get the Korg Legacy Collection (six or so of the engines featured in the Kronos) and upgrade my midi controller. Your story helps to keep from looking over my shoulder at hardware (though I still may buy a Motif and/or Triton rack module).



Nachivnik,

I'm happy my experience was useful in some way. I just returned the Kronos and while it made a little sad I'm relieved. As far as I am concerned Korg really blew it with the lack of integration. Both Roland and Yamaha have much better integration. Yamaha's MOXF8 is a great workstation that integrates very well with Cubase. Of course Yamaha owns Steinberg so it's easier for them to do this but hopefully this will have Korg rethinking their software.

In software I have the Poly6, the wavestation, and the M1 and they do sound great. Ironically, considering your post, I also have a hardware Korg Triton rack and it still sounds pretty amazing.

At the end of the day it is sad that a piece of gear you lust over for a few years doesn't end up working out. I'm running out of stuff to buy...  (just kidding)

Good luck with your music!

Darren


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## joed (Dec 2, 2015)

Thank you for this thread. I was in deep gear lust for the Kronos for a while. After reading this....nope, don't need it.


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## korgoasys (Dec 2, 2015)

Sorry folks. I'm just the bottom of the pile. Great thread. The first on the K? I think your musical outlooks are so different to mine. I bought the O on watching Steve McNally's promo. I'd just unpacked the Triton a few weeks earlier which I was able to sell on to a school musical department to pay for the O.

Darren, Apesinno et al, thanks a bunch.

I'm not selling my O ever. I'm hovering over the K. I just sit here on the first floor landing with my Sennhieser 650 bins on with the O fully loaded and I could be in the first row of the local cinema. I've got a reasonable bunch of VSTs in the wings and VSL Cube to flesh this lot out. I'm like a pig in clover. Even though I sing in choral societies and cathedral chapel choirs, the O (just look at it with its titling colour touch screen to wake you up in the morning) happens to inspire me every time to flesh out a melody, and then get into the VSTs.

There we are. Korg may not suit everyone's musical ambitions but by Christ the O does mine. Go out and pick up a fully loaded O for under £1500 or so. I know I have no dead-lines etc etc and I'm probably the oldest member here, and it all depends on our particular workflow but only about 3000 of these things were sold and the only criticism I encountered was the price--not its sonic abilities, technological advances at the time etc etc. 

Go out and make good music my friends. Don't dismiss this thing. 

Patrick


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## dpasdernick (Dec 3, 2015)

Patrick,

I'm glad your experiences have been better than mine. It's true that all of this hardware and software is only what you make of it. There were a ton of amazing musicians that got more out of an old beat up acoustic guitar than I may ever get out of 10's of thousands of dollars worth of gear.

My Kronos experience was the net result of trying to relive my hardware years after many years of software only. Over the past 1.5 years I have bought 5 rack mount synths and lost a lot of composition time messing with integrating them into my workflow. Perhaps this was a mistake on my part. In the old days you fired up the MiniMoog, finessed a patch and played the darn thing note by note to some sort of tape deck. No quantizing, no expression curves, no ability to tweak the delay effect after the fact. Just play the darn thing.

I just wanted the Kronos to work along side of my other tools and not be this "outsider" that can never really play well with the other pieces in my studio (VST's, etc). Yes, it was inspirational, but having to transfer that inspiration from one piece of gear to another would have been disruptive and I'm sure things like the Karma effects would have been "lost in translation". After the difficulties in getting my Roland Integra 7 to play nice I did finally get there and it works very well. I think I had just run out of patience with Korg's inability to offer up a real integration solution without me paying an extra $300 to get there.

Thanks for the input,

Darren


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 21, 2015)

I am coming from Korg Workstations since the M1, then Wavestation, Korg Karma, M3 and there I stopped using workstations. It was around that time that software on my MAC outperformed what was coming out of these workstations. Back in the days, and especially the Korg Karma (Around 2001) was a massive source of inspiration and with Stephen Kay's ingenious KARMA implementation it was the King of the Hill, albeit there never was a 88 keys Korg Karma, only later with the OASYS this became available. The Kronos is the best workstation available today in my book, but time has moved on and one has to check out whether he needs that workflow and sounds on offer. It is the ultimate "Impersonator keyboard" and I mean that in no negative way. It is very impressive what can be achieved with this single board in capable hands, no doubts, but there is a steep learning curve associated as well if you want to dig in deep and get the most out of it.

Having said all that, for sentimental reasons, my original Korg Karma still stands here and on occasion I fire it up and she still makes me smile. She's like a beautiful old-timer to me, and I imagine in 10 years, proud owners of the Kronos might feel just the same.


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