# Why Don't All Films Have Memorable Themes? Junkie XL answers



## Andrajas (Apr 26, 2017)

Wanted to share this since I think it was a very interesting answer on a interesting topic. I really like that he shares his knowledge and thoughts in these videos.

This subject must have been discussed on this forum, but what do you guys think?


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## NoamL (Apr 26, 2017)

I think his answer is good!

BTW I can still hum the theme from Deadpool and the emotional strings theme from Fury Road so he managed to get some themes in there 

IMO, just a general trend, older movies were more about capturing emotions inside the characters, and the edit was paced so that the movie would hardly work _without_ music. The Leone-Morricone movies and Spielberg-Williams movies for instance. Newer movies are more about capturing characters acting and reacting, and the edit aims to tell the story by itself. I'm not saying new movies are fast and old movies are slow. Just that there is less for the music to do. IMO Guy Ritchie is a great director at capturing emotions and character inside of an action scene.


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## JohnG (Apr 26, 2017)

I think Noam makes a good point about the editing -- something like 4-5x the number of edits in movies today compared with 20 years ago. Movies used to use "establishing shots" that might go on for 25-40 seconds, maybe a helicopter with sights of Rio or Hong Kong or London. During those scenes or montages, music stepped forward and really spoke about the tone of the movie or its characters, another point Noam makes.

Also, there is just "more story." A crime / caper movie today will have far more twists and turns than in former times. In that circumstance, music simply can't get in the way of what often is a huge amount of expository dialogue that is required for the audience to follow what's happening.

But I think the loss of melody has more to do with the attitude of the movie. Raiders of the Lost Ark invites the audience from the outset to suspend disbelief and take a trip back into some of the films of decades ago. The playfulness of the story can tolerate a level of old-fashioned-ness about the score. Picture "E.T." or "Out of Africa." Whether or not you like those films (or the issues they address and fail to address), there are deliberate moments when the director planned for music.

By contrast, a gritty slice of reality film, set in present day, simply can't go there. Any music with a whiff of Mozart -- high woodwinds playing melodies, V-I cadences or even V-I harmonic movement, modulation effected functionally -- all that makes people think "old-fashioned." In a negative way.

There are some great examples to the contrary, "The Road to Perdition" being one, in which music tells a lot of the story _and_ there's not so much dialogue. Maybe that's because it was a graphic novel first?

It's an interesting topic.


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## gsilbers (Apr 26, 2017)

NoamL said:


> I think his answer is good!
> 
> BTW I can still hum the theme from Deadpool and the emotional strings theme from Fury Road so he managed to get some themes in there
> 
> IMO, just a general trend, older movies were more about capturing emotions inside the characters, and the edit was paced so that the movie would hardly work _without_ music. The Leone-Morricone movies and Spielberg-Williams movies for instance. Newer movies are more about capturing characters acting and reacting, and the edit aims to tell the story by itself. I'm not saying new movies are fast and old movies are slow. Just that there is less for the music to do. IMO Guy Ritchie is a great director at capturing emotions and character inside of an action scene.



Thats a good point. Also junkies' point is good. 
I also think that some directors try to get a specific sound for their movies which is what junkie says but the style goes along with the type of movie like you said. some movies do have more space to have the music develop and be part of that story.Others try to get a new sound for their new style of film. animation gets a lot more "classical" and so on.
back in the day


JohnG said:


> Also, there is just "more story." A crime / caper movie today will have far more twists and turns than in former times. In that circumstance, music simply can't get in the way of what often is a huge amount of expository dialogue that is required for the audience to follow what's happening.
> 
> 
> It's an interesting topic.




Well, back then they TALKED a lot more about those twists


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## Svyato (Apr 26, 2017)

today with all the affordable technology for making music, the "sound" (finding a personal one) might be more important than finding a memorable melody.


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## Flaneurette (Apr 26, 2017)

I think it is because most movies aren't memorable these days. Music only supports it. Garbage in, garbage out. They have a common factor: Art, soul, the love and soul for the art and craft. Movies are pumped out from a factory line to make a quick dollar. It has become just another product. That is why J.S. Bach will last forever, and J.S. Bieber maybe for a decade (or when the money runs out). And I am not cynical.

Take Francis Ford Coppola's struggle to create the movies he made... he almost lost his sanity. He simply gave everything he had. His whole soul. The incredible amount of work, stress, blood and tears is why his movies will last for a very long time. And so does it's soundtrack and music, because I can bet that he demanded only the best. Nino Rota, for example.

A short anecdote:



> After Francis Coppola spent nearly two years in the Philippine jungle making his $31million Vietnam War epic, Apocalypse Now, he wrote a note to himself, which his wife found. It read, in part:
> 
> “My nerves are shot—My heart is broken—My imagination is dead. I have no self-reliance—But like a child I just want someone to rescue me...”
> 
> Instead of abandoning his movie, he kept going, struggling in some remote Jungle, for a higher cause than himself. He just descended into a frenzied creative journey, that made a huge lasting impact.


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## Desire Inspires (Apr 26, 2017)

Flaneurette said:


> I think it is because most movies aren't memorable these days. Music only supports it. Garbage in, garbage out. They have a common factor: Art, soul, the love and soul for the art and craft. Movies are pumped out from a factory line to make a quick dollar. It has become just another product. That is why J.S. Bach will last forever, and J.S. Bieber maybe for a decade (or when the money runs out). And I am not cynical.
> 
> Take Francis Ford Coppola's struggle to create the movies he made... he almost lost his sanity. He simply gave everything he had. His whole soul. The incredible amount of work, stress, blood and tears is why his movies will last for a very long time. And so does it's soundtrack and music, because I can bet that he demanded only the best. Nino Rota, for example.
> 
> A short anecdote:



Who is J.S. Bach? I haven't heard his music on the airwaves.


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## Saxer (Apr 26, 2017)

I think it's the result of a long term development from musicians to midi. The first popular midi synth music that came up copied the playing style of musicians. 80s stuff. But synth melodies sound mostly bad and cheap so at the end of the 80s nobody wanted midi synth melodies any more. So pop music avoided all non-vocal melodies and production focused on the parts that midi really can do: rhythm and repetition. So there's a generation that grew up with dance and hiphop and without instrumental melodies at all in the music of their youth. So why do they should use the music of their grand/parents in their films?


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## givemenoughrope (Apr 26, 2017)

What Saxer said. 

There's a reason why Morricone is constantly needle dropped. If film composers could write melodies like that (or even riffs or rhythmic figures) then they would and we'd hear them. 

It's also easier to control/adapt drones, pads, basic minimal stuff to the temp, edits, etc.


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## Andrajas (Apr 26, 2017)

Interesting stuff. I wonder if we will ever go back to how it was or if the way film/film music is done these days will go on for a long time.


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## Saxer (Apr 26, 2017)

It never goes back to where it was. But every movement has a counterpart. Probably not in that way we expect. Maybe movie making itself becomes outdated. Or they change the format to short stories like music moved away from longplay to single songs. Or making music becomes so cool one day that everybody laughs about our superficial skills. Or we get a world revolution and nobody has time to think about that any more.


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## mwarsell (Apr 27, 2017)

Some films work without music. Terminator 2 is fantastic with absolutely no melody at all. "Melody-free" film music isn't any worse than one with melody - it's just different. If it suits the film, then that's fine. Don't take me wrong, I'm big on melody and my favourite scores are very melodious. But sometimes just sound design can go a long way. (note: I haven't yet watched the Junkie video)


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 27, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Some films work without music. Terminator 2 is fantastic with absolutely no melody at all. "Melody-free" film music isn't any worse than one with melody - it's just different. If it suits the film, then that's fine. Don't take me wrong, I'm big on melody and my favourite scores are very melodious. But sometimes just sound design can go a long way. (note: I haven't yet watched the Junkie video)



Sorry, maybe I slept during the T2 permiere back then, but there is at least one definitive strong melodic motif in that film which is repurposed a couple of times during the movie which lets connect the audience to the emotional aspect of the story and characters.


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## Puzzlefactory (Apr 27, 2017)

Yeah, T2 has a really strong memoriable melody, as well as the big percussion theme too.


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## Puzzlefactory (Apr 27, 2017)

I do think the "memorable theme" thing is a John Williams speciality.

After reading this thread I just tried to think in my head of memorable themes and they're all John Williams.

Star Wars, Jurassic Park, Superman, Indiana Jones, ET, Jaws, Harry Potter etc etc...


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## mwarsell (Apr 27, 2017)

My bad..there is a melody in T2. But was it used in the film apart from the credits?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 27, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> My bad..there is a melody in T2. But was it used in the film apart from the credits?



Yes..during the movie you have a couple of times this main melodic motif put into slightly different tempos, intensity and moments. You should probably rewatch that movie, when you find some time..Same with the T1, sure the majority of music in both movies is pretty percussive and clustery, + in T1 you have all this cool synths. For me the consensus is: Movies can work without strong melodic motifs, sure. The important thing should be that the music serves the picture, and the ideal thing would be that the music can stand IN ADDITION on its own..what is for me personally less and less the case with modern filmmusic. I also miss a strongly development of the motifs in films, there is actually very less to none for me.


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## JohnG (Apr 27, 2017)

givemenoughrope said:


> There's a reason why Morricone is constantly needle dropped



The reason is because "Good, Bad Ugly" etc. are well-known, often used specifically to recall some feeling from the original, or meant ironically. I don't think composers have lost the ability to write long melodies. In fact, as much as I love maestro Morricone's music (especially "The Mission," which is arguably the greatest film score ever), I think it's the context that surrounds his scores that generates those needle-drops, not the music on its own.

Besides -- watched one of those old westerns recently? Their --- pace --- is ---- glacial. The movies had wide open spaces visually, and wide open spaces for music. Except for one or two directors, Terrence Malick being one, directors almost never plan space for music like that today.


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## Flaneurette (Apr 27, 2017)

For me, the only memorable theme from the last 20 years is Gladiator. It also the only soundtrack I actually bought. I think it's Hans Zimmer's best work.


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## Rodney Money (Apr 27, 2017)

Flaneurette said:


> For me, the only memorable theme from the last 20 years is Gladiator. It also the only soundtrack I actually bought. I think it's Hans Zimmer's best work.


For me, I remember a lot themes in LOTR.


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## J-M (Apr 27, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> For me, I remember a lot themes in LOTR.



One simply can't forget the themes associated with the Uruk-Hai or the fellowship.


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## Dave Connor (Apr 27, 2017)

HZ's theme for The Pacific is a stunner and very memorable. An excellent example of the modern approach to thematic writing that is not overly lyrical or tune-like as was common in past eras. So it can be done.


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## NoamL (Apr 27, 2017)

Here is what I meant about capturing interior vs exterior... btw perhaps I should clarify that I don't think either is better than the other.






two great composers (IMO Jackman is one of the best composers of today)

two movie scenes where music takes the foreground

two compositions based on the idea of doing a big version of a theme heard earlier throughout the film

two different styles of writing that wouldn't work in each other's movie.

And of course the two scenes serve somewhat different story purposes in the context of their respective movies. You can't draw a totally 1:1 comparison here.

But, there are some interesting differences. In ESB, the scene plays out in real time, in XMFC, the awe of the characters is told visually through variable speed camera work. The JW score stays "inside" Luke's head and plays out his reactions (even though Luke is not on screen for much of the scene), the HJ score captures the awesomeness of the event but not necessarily from Charles's or Eric's or even the Soviet captain's POV.


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## Kyle Preston (Apr 27, 2017)

This conversation is fascinating. I can't help but feel that we composers tend to put so much emphasis on music (how could we not?) that we get tunnel vision. Not every story needs memorable melodies. And I'm skeptical that modern listeners actually give a shit about hummable themes in their day-to-day. Some people hear this style as 'dated' (to each their own). The cynic in me believes musicians want this technique used in every film/game/album to serve some nostalgic longing. "Make movies great again" etc...

Why?

Some stories are about the experience, in the moment. Even if it's fleeting. If it's told honestly, why is this a bad thing?


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## Andrajas (Apr 27, 2017)

NoamL said:


> Here is what I meant about capturing interior vs exterior... btw perhaps I should clarify that I don't think either is better than the other.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



great example! thanks for sharing!


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## Michael Antrum (Apr 27, 2017)

Honestly, I think it has a lot to do with modern films and how they are presented. 

First of all, I don't know if it's just me getting older, but back in the 80's and early 90's movies made a much more emotional impact on me. Films like Aliens, Back to the Future, Jurassic Park, Indiana Jones etc, etc etc. I think modern cinema has lost the ability to engage an audience. It's just about the eye candy these days - or so it seems. Look at some of the lines you get from films like Aliens, Terminator etc - they have become part of modern parlance. They have forgotten that these films don't stand up because of the special FX and 3D, they do so because they have real story development and characters that are engaging.

If you can't get this basic right - how on earth does the music stand much of a chance ?

I have had several recent cinema trips, including iMax etc, it's bigger, louder, but not better.


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## Kyle Preston (Apr 27, 2017)

mverta said:


> Modern use of music in films is a byproduct of dramatic illiteracy. I have an upcoming podcast for directors (and composers?) on this very thing. It's neither conspiratorial, nor debatable. (Fat chance.)



Not debatable?

Is it possible that some films simply don't necessitate this style? Not every movie is Star Wars and I'm tired of hearing people frame this as a black and white issue. There are no absolutes in music or story telling.


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## givemenoughrope (Apr 27, 2017)

JohnG said:


> The reason is because "Good, Bad Ugly" etc. are well-known, often used specifically to recall some feeling from the original, or meant ironically. I don't think composers have lost the ability to write long melodies. In fact, as much as I love maestro Morricone's music (especially "The Mission," which is arguably the greatest film score ever), I think it's the context that surrounds his scores that generates those needle-drops, not the music on its own.
> 
> Besides -- watched one of those old westerns recently? Their --- pace --- is ---- glacial. The movies had wide open spaces visually, and wide open spaces for music. Except for one or two directors, Terrence Malick being one, directors almost never plan space for music like that today.



I'm not referring to The G,B,U and stuff that gets used or quoted in ads and sports programming. The Tarantino films somewhat. More like his deeper cuts in some recent lower budget films. 

I don't think composers have lost that ability. But I think...if they could they would and eventually we'd hear it. Some nice tunes out of Carter Burwell and some others. Howard Shore of course. 

I love the glacial, deliberate pace. If the last two episodes of Better Call Saul or Fargo are any indication I think that may be on it's way back a tiny bit (wishful thinking).


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## Soundhound (Apr 27, 2017)

I think the blockbuster franchise virus that took over the movie industry the last decade or so has a lot to do with this. Same thing over and over and over again. Bigger bigger bigger. Yikes. But there are films still being made that have great scores, the tools of the trade and styles of music have changed of course. I thought Arrival was beautiful and terrific (kind of rushed the last act, but that didn't kill it for me) and I absolutely loved Johanssen's score. That to me is taking the new technology and articulating a new and exciting style. Yes, a lot of it could be considered sound design, but it's what they felt was called for, and I love the way it works.


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## Vin (Apr 27, 2017)

Instantly reminded me of this video:


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## mwarsell (Apr 28, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> I think the blockbuster franchise virus that took over the movie industry the last decade or so has a lot to do with this. Same thing over and over and over again. Bigger bigger bigger. Yikes. But there are films still being made that have great scores, the tools of the trade and styles of music have changed of course. I thought Arrival was beautiful and terrific (kind of rushed the last act, but that didn't kill it for me) and I absolutely loved Johanssen's score. That to me is taking the new technology and articulating a new and exciting style. Yes, a lot of it could be considered sound design, but it's what they felt was called for, and I love the way it works.



Arrival is very good. Just watched it and now immersing myself to the OST. And hardly any melody in it.

Johansson's IBM album is fantastic too. Somewhat similar.


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## jonathanparham (Apr 28, 2017)

I liked Johansson before I heard his film scores. Sicario really scares me when I listen to it.


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## sherief83 (Apr 28, 2017)

Not to hijack the thread but since Johansson was mentioned, I just have to give this man his prop. Sicario Score wise is a master piece. Arrival's score is a master piece as well, I watched Prisoners and THAT was one heck of a dark score, darker than Sicario even but so powerful. Must watch.

On the subject it self. I just finished the Godfather last night, it made me appreciate Nina Rito's score even more and I genuinely had tears that I will never be able to hear something like that today. In one scene, He was able to tell the love story between pachino and the italian girl with a very simple gorgeous melody and a Guitar background with a bit of strings and it immediately made me feel the love.


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## Flaneurette (Apr 28, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> For me, I remember a lot themes in LOTR.



I have never seen it...  I am afraid it will be a disappointment... after having crafted my own fantasy world, reading Tolkien as a child.


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## Flaneurette (Apr 28, 2017)

sherief83 said:


> I just finished the Godfather last night



Probably the best movie ever made. I like it even better than the book.


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## mwarsell (Apr 29, 2017)

Flaneurette said:


> Probably the best movie ever made. I like it even better than the book.



For some reason that reminded me of a joke of an old man watching the film "Bible" from 1966 and saying afterwards:"I liked the book better."


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## mwarsell (Apr 29, 2017)

jonathanparham said:


> I liked Johansson before I heard his film scores. Sicario really scares me when I listen to it.


Ooh I still have Sicario and Prisoners unwatched. I totally loved his IBM album, it's fascinating and unique but also somehow very sombre.


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## Andrajas (Apr 29, 2017)

I think many memorable themes today can be found in video games. Many new games actually have some really fine melodies in my personal experience. Its a bit different from the film format in that regard I think.


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## tack (Apr 29, 2017)

Flaneurette said:


> For me, the only memorable theme from the last 20 years is Gladiator.


Harry Potter isn't memorable for you?

It seems to me Harry Potter is one of the most instantly recognizable themes to the general public in the past 20 years. It's also very hummable -- even though it's sophisticated enough that most people butcher it


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## Replicant (Apr 29, 2017)

While JXL's response makes a lot of sense, I definitely feel it goes a bit deeper and more dismal than a simple difference in film-making style. I still think the recent Youtube documentary on Marvel's lack of memorable themes in their movies is closer to the bull's eye.

This is all IMO and my insane ravings of course, but

He talks a fair bit about "big melodies" in that video. Well, the trouble is, you don't need a "big" melody to be memorable.

From the moment I first heard it, that four note motif from Jerry Goldsmith's "The Mummy" has stuck with me; you just have to play those four notes and immediately I know what it is. Much the same with Gregson-Williams "Prince of Persia" which is six notes.

But those are sweeping, romantic films, right? Well, Resident Evil: Extinction wasn't, but I still remember Charlie Clouser's "Convoy" theme clear as a bell and it's a far cry from "Star Wars" style.



I can also remember John's score for when Nix is searching for Luna in FFXV: King's Glaive no problems. The intro rhythm, specifically.



To be honest with you, I don't think I've seen a movie over the last 10 years where there wasn't room for at least one small hook or motif like these that I could remember after leaving the theater.

While the directing style surely plays a part, I think that it's really only part of a larger problem. John Debney explained back in 2003 when he composed for Scorpion King:

*"What are the important issues for film and TV composers today?"

"*One of the concerns I have is technology, which has enabled us to do amazing things. In the old days, a composer might play a little theme for a director on a piano and say, "See you in six weeks on the scoring stage." Now, literally ninety-eight percent of every piece in a movie has been demo'ed thoroughly before we even get to the scoring stage. Technology can be a tool to show directors and producers a hint of what the music will ultimately sound like. The down side with technology is that, with younger composers coming up, we may sometimes lose sight of the fact that there are skills, techniques and fundamentals that have to be learned in order to be a really good film composer. I've already seen instances where the technology can really overshadow the craft. You can get someone who's barely knowledgeable of music fundamentals doing big film scores. My hope is, with the advent of technology, that we never lose sight of the craft involved -- that learning harmony, theory and counterpoint is really important.*"*


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## mwarsell (Apr 29, 2017)

+1 for harmony, theory and counterpoint.


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## Flaneurette (Apr 30, 2017)

I like to think that the better the film, story, acting, editing, etc. the less music is required to support it. Compensation. Lots of explosions, CGI, but poor story requires more Epicness to tie it together then let's say an intimate dialogue, where music adds nothing and only takes away.

Simple and carefully written themes work well on great films with a great story. If you can sum up a story in one sentence, we should be able to do the same with music. You can whistle the Godfather, hum Star Wars and sing Gladiator. That's great, I think.



tack said:


> Harry Potter isn't memorable for you?



Also never seen it. I don't like fantasy film. 

I don't watch that many movies anymore. The last decade or so I am more into post-cinema, art films, noire, progressive, subjective, avant-garde so anything non-Hollywood basically. No cheap thrills, but pieces that can uplift the human spirit and soul instead of catering to simple pleasures.


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## tack (May 1, 2017)

Flaneurette said:


> Also never seen it. I don't like fantasy film.


You owe it to yourself to listen to the soundtrack at least. It's excellent.


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## Replicant (May 1, 2017)

Flaneurette said:


> I don't watch that many movies anymore. The last decade or so I am more into post-cinema, art films, noire, progressive, subjective, avant-garde so anything non-Hollywood basically. No cheap thrills, but pieces that can uplift the human spirit and soul instead of catering to simple pleasures.


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## Kejero (May 2, 2017)

Flaneurette said:


> I like to think that the better the film, story, acting, editing, etc. the less music is required to support it.


Until you realize that music can be an _integral_ part of the storytelling, on the same level (and very much on a _different_ level as well) as acting, editing, cinematography etc., and as a moviemaker, know how to use each tool.


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## I like music (May 2, 2017)

Goldsmith a prime example of being able to write a damn good melody, use rhythm masterfully (and do other stuff with an orchestra I couldn't even describe in words) and doing so in a way that integrates with the film so that the emotion is released when the filmmaker wants it released. Rudy for me is a perfect example of a score enhancing the onscreen action (as well as dive into the emotional state of the characters) within the same musical framework.

I'm sure you could argue that it isn't necessary (and truly it isn't), but I do feel that in general composers could always do more make things a bit more memorable through melody.


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## Ultra (May 2, 2017)

Problem is there aren't many composers currently that can produce memorable themes, motifs, leitmotifs. At least not consistently. And most of the directors have zero clue. They need to integrate the composer very, very early in the conceptual process. But they have no vision, proven by the lame ass movies.

Biggest problem, besides that 99% of the scores nowadays are crap, is that the scores do NOTHING for the picture, the scene or the mood that needs to be enhanced in order to manipulate the audience further (other than what the picture already does). THAT is the whole point. And that again, is mostly Directors fault for a variety of reasons. The director needs to guide the composer. U can write the strongest score of all time, if it does not fit the picture u're wasting half ur ammo.

Best score in the last 15 years, and one of the best scores as a whole continuous score, not just 1 or 2 tracks, was DAFT PUNK, TRON LEGACY. Mansell's REQUIEM FOR A DREAM had a strong theme. 

Badalamenti's MULHOLLAND DRIVE. Pure. Simple. Absolutely dead on.

THE DARK KNIGHT is Hans' best work since Gladiator and I strongly contribute that to the collaboration with James Newton Howard. I like Hans in the 80s and 90s. Very different.

I never heard a single track from Giacchino that made me go get the score. Not a single one. If u could point out your favorite, most memorable tracks from him I'll check them out.

Korzeniowski wrote a few beautiful tracks and motifs for A SINGLE MAN, but since then pretty much the same thing.


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## sazema (May 2, 2017)

Don't know, but "No country for old man", "I, Daniel Blake" and many many others, good strong movies, without any music. It's just not needed.


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## Kejero (May 2, 2017)

sazema said:


> Don't know, but "No country for old man", "I, Daniel Blake" and many many others, good strong movies, without any music. It's just not needed.


Completely missing the point. Music is a tool. If you know how to use it, you create your movie with music as an integral device of the storytelling. However, this doesn't mean, at all, that it's impossible to make a great movie without any music. You just wouldn't approach it in the same way. If music is just an afterthought, which is how most movie makers approach their movie-making, then music's role is limited to either supporting moods, or in some cases "fixing" scenes, compensating for a lack of storytelling in acting, direction, or other aspects.

Here's a simple analogy: you give an artist all the colors, except black, to paint a painting. Tell 'em there may be some black available in the future, but nobody's preoccupied with where it's coming from, who'se gonna provide it, or what brand it's gonna be. What's your painter gonna do? They'll paint with what they have, and possibly make something great with it. And then you give them black. "Here, add this." Maybe that black will make the painting even better. More likely than not, it won't add much that wasn't already right there in the painting. Worst case it'll ruin a perfectly fine painting.
The black was an afterthought. If it hadn't been, the painter would've approached it differently.

Now, a large amount of movies are often "made during editing", often using temp tracks. Even then, the same principle holds: by their nature, temp tracks are rarely considered an integral part of the movie; so how could the final music ever be?


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## Consona (May 2, 2017)

Flaneurette said:


> I have never seen it...  I am afraid it will be a disappointment... after having crafted my own fantasy world, reading Tolkien as a child.


All I can tell you is I totally love LotR books, I read them as a child too, so I understand your fear, but, to me, those films are some of the best book to screen adaptations ever and some of the best films ever. They are truly masterpiece-level great. Definitely go watch them if you are a Tolkien fan.

Just check out some scenes...





Totally fantastic and speaking of memorable themes, the music in LotR is just incredible! Some of the best themes I know. I mean...



Guys if you know any brass sample library sounding like that, please let me know.


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## Consona (May 2, 2017)

anthraxsnax said:


> Samplemodeling


Whoa! Thx for that suggestion, those instruments sound excellent!


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## Parsifal666 (May 2, 2017)

Consona said:


> All I can tell you is I totally love LotR books, I read them as a child too, so I understand your fear, but, to me, those films are some of the best book to screen adaptations ever and some of the best films ever. They are truly masterpiece-level great. Definitely go watch them if you are a Tolkien fan.



Not a Tolkien fan (I prefer Der Ring Des Nibelungen), but Howard Shore really knocked it out of the park with the music for those films imo.

And (trying to stay on topic), there were some less memorable, mainly-meant-for-scene-enhancement melodies in those films. Well, I tried lol!


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## Parsifal666 (May 2, 2017)

Consona said:


> Whoa! Thx for that suggestion, those instruments sound excellent!



If only *anthraxsnax* liked Sample Modeling better, I just can't seem to get him into those libraries. Frustrating.


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## resound (May 2, 2017)

I like music said:


> Goldsmith a prime example of being able to write a damn good melody, use rhythm masterfully (and do other stuff with an orchestra I couldn't even describe in words) and doing so in a way that integrates with the film so that the emotion is released when the filmmaker wants it released. Rudy for me is a perfect example of a score enhancing the onscreen action (as well as dive into the emotional state of the characters) within the same musical framework.
> 
> I'm sure you could argue that it isn't necessary (and truly it isn't), but I do feel that in general composers could always do more make things a bit more memorable through melody.



Wow, it took the tambourine player quite a few bars to find the groove


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## I like music (May 2, 2017)

resound said:


> Wow, it took the tambourine player quite a few bars to find the groove



I know! I've listened to this track religiously for over half my life and so become accustomed to it. Were I to hear the tambourine done properly, I would find it odd. For me "it is a feature, not a bug" now.


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## Replicant (May 2, 2017)

Ultra said:


> THE DARK KNIGHT is Hans' best work since Gladiator and I strongly contribute that to the collaboration with James Newton Howard. I like Hans in the 80s and 90s. Very different.



Really? I've always thought that Dark Knight was among his _worst_. 

IMO, Kung Fu Panda 3, of all things, is among his best scores since at least the early 2000s.


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## Parsifal666 (May 2, 2017)

Replicant said:


> Really? I've always thought that Dark Knight was among his _worst_.
> 
> IMO, Kung Fu Panda 3, of all things, is among his best scores since at least the early 2000s.



I love them both...in fact, I love the Lion King, Inception, Interstellar, Tears of the Sun, and so many other by Hans. But Dark Knight Rises and Man of Steel were just huge for me. Still are. My favorites. Only the classic Goldsmith and of course so much of John Williams hits me that hard for film music. Big fan of Carpenter too.


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## Flaneurette (May 2, 2017)

I also have some weakness for the works of Mark Snow and John Carpenter... definitely memorable for me. I think John Carpenter was the first composer who made me watch only for the music, and after that Hans Zimmer, followed by Elliot Goldenthal. But I am a bit behind the times when it comes to new Hollywood films. Have some catching up to do when I read the above comments. I might even try LOTR soon.


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## Parsifal666 (May 2, 2017)

Flaneurette said:


> I might even try LOTR soon.



Argh for the movies but YAY! for Howard Shore.


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## Ultra (May 2, 2017)

Replicant said:


> Really? I've always thought that Dark Knight was among his _worst_.



Batman Begins did little for me. TDK was outstanding, but again mostly because of the melodic contribution of JNH - and because some of the cues absolutely perfectly fit the individual scenes (the scene in the streets with Batman hunting Joker and "Like a dog chasing cars" starts playing... pin point.). TDKR is a mere remix of the TDK. Very little new stuff. And the movie was abysmal.


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## Parsifal666 (May 2, 2017)

Ultra said:


> TDKR is a mere remix of the TDK. Very little new stuff. And the movie was abysmal.



I love that movie, both the DKR soundtrack and film are my favorites of the DK series.

To each his (or her) own.


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