# New RME AIO PRO PCIe horrible performance



## Pablocrespo (Mar 14, 2021)

Hi, I´ve just replaced my Motu Avb (USB) interface with the new RME AIO PRO, and I have found out that Cubase performance with large orchestral projects is incredibly worse. With the Motu, I could run the projects at 1024 buffer and not a single hiccup and with the RME, I have to put the buffer at 4096 and still have problems (and lots of latency).

I have read that RME is one of the best for composing rigs but didn´t expect this behaviour, I have tried to change the pci slot but nothing happened. 

Did anybody had this issue and worked things out?

PS: I also have the imfamous headphone noise when I move my mouse....so far no very happy with RME


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## easyrider (Mar 14, 2021)

Why did you go for an internal card over a USB ?

what are you computer specs?


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 14, 2021)

Pablocrespo said:


> Did anybody had this issue and worked things out?





Pablocrespo said:


> PS: I also have the imfamous headphone noise when I move my mouse....so far no very happy with RME


10+ Years ago my HDSP9632 also picked up mouse noise,
no matter where i put it in (if i had put it into a trashcan, there would possibly be mouse noise also, so i just sold it).
Went to USB/Fire/TB after that and have never looked back.


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 14, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Why did you go for an internal card over a USB ?
> 
> what are you computer specs?


I have a 9990k, with 64gb, running VEP local and two extra PCs.

I wanted to streamline the setup, was using a summing mixer. When the time came to buy a good 2 channel interface I researched and the consensus was that RME PCI was the best choice for this kind of rig, it seems it maybe not?


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## easyrider (Mar 14, 2021)

Pablocrespo said:


> I have a 9990k, with 64gb, running VEP local and two extra PCs.
> 
> I wanted to streamline the setup, was using a summing mixer. When the time came to buy a good 2 channel interface I researched and the consensus was that RME PCI was the best choice for this kind of rig, it seems it maybe not?


The noise is electrical interference within the chassis... Is the pc plugged into a main extension cable and is it sharing power with other devices?

You could try some electrical tape in between the chassis and the pci slot bracket.

This is a ground loop issue...

I myself would return it and get a BabyFace Pro FS and move on with your life....The reason external Audio interfaces are used is to eliminate this noise....


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## Ben (Mar 14, 2021)

Really strange issue, but I've never had a PCIe audio interface (I own the Fireface UFX II, runs rock solid without issues).
It might also be an issue in combination with your mainboard, or the specific PCIe slot. If you don't want to use an USB interface you should consider testing the card in a different slot, and/or a different mainboard.


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## easyrider (Mar 14, 2021)

Ben said:


> Really strange issue, but I've never had a PCIe audio interface (I own the Fireface UFX II, runs rock solid without issues).
> It might also be an issue in combination with your mainboard, or the specific PCIe slot. If you don't want to use an USB interface you should consider testing the card in a different slot, and/or a different mainboard.


It’s a common issue with internal cards...its Well documented in the RME forum...

I think as well if you ground one of the pins in the XLR breakout cable you can turn the sound on and off....


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 14, 2021)

easyrider said:


> The noise is electrical interference within the chassis... Is the pc plugged into a main extension cable and is it sharing power with other devices?
> 
> You could try some electrical tape in between the chassis and the pci slot bracket.
> 
> ...


So, I plugged the computer to another outlet and it quite reduced the noise, thanks for that!. So it is definetly something about grounding, do you have any more info about the electrical tape fix?

I wish I could send it back, but getting it to my country was a hassle, send it back and then replacing with a babyface would be a nightmare.

I surely was under the impression that PCI would be more stable and could allow smaller buffers in large projects than USB!


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## easyrider (Mar 14, 2021)

Pablocrespo said:


> So, I plugged the computer to another outlet and it quite reduced the noise, thanks for that!. So it is definetly something about grounding, do you have any more info about the electrical tape fix?
> 
> I wish I could send it back, but getting it to my country was a hassle, send it back and then replacing with a babyface would be a nightmare.
> 
> I surely was under the impression that PCI would be more stable and could allow smaller buffers in large projects than USB!


Take the bracket off the card....cover it with electrical tape....re-install the card...


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 14, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Take the bracket off the card....cover it with electrical tape....re-install the card...


Thanks! I will try that tomorrow and report back. 

Will keep investigating the appaling cubase performance


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## easyrider (Mar 14, 2021)

Pablocrespo said:


> Thanks! I will try that tomorrow and report back.
> 
> Will keep investigating the appaling cubase performance


You have installed the latest drivers etc...?


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## PerryD (Mar 14, 2021)

Kind of a reverse issue... When I switched from an RME RayDat PCIe (which worked great) to a Quantum 2626 TB3 interface, I was getting poor midi performance. The _old RME drivers_ showed up in a crash report. I had to select "view hidden drivers" to locate and remove them. No issues since.


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 14, 2021)

easyrider said:


> You have installed the latest drivers etc...?


Yes. Today I downloaded the latest driver and firmware


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 15, 2021)

I have opened another somewhat more demanding project and cannot get it to play properly at 4096, even disabling some vst plugins. something is wrong because that project ran perfectly with the MOTU.


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## easyrider (Mar 15, 2021)

Pablocrespo said:


> I have opened another somewhat more demanding project and cannot get it to play properly at 4096, even disabling some vst plugins. something is wrong because that project ran perfectly with the MOTU.


What version of windows?

Did you uninstall the Motu Drivers?

How much space is available on C: ?

what speed Pcie slot is the RME in ?


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 15, 2021)

Windows 20H2. C: has 80gb of free space (it’s a samsung 970 nmve m2 drive)

I uninstalled the MOTU drivers and also deleted them from hidden drivers in device manager. 
I have tried two of the PCIe 1x and also the 4x slot (the remaining 1x is hidden by the video card)

Mother is a Gigabyte z390 aorus pro wifi, video card is AMD. Just finished another 10 minutes latency mon and it looks fine


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## easyrider (Mar 15, 2021)

Post a pic of your windows audio settings sand Cubase audio settings.... 

the same as in the manual.


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## Summa (Mar 15, 2021)

Pablocrespo said:


> PS: I also have the imfamous headphone noise when I move my mouse....so far no very happy with RME


The usual stuff - even with some badly grounded USB audio devices, I tend to go optical out only - using galvanic isolation probably works too. Is this noticeable when using Headphone only, no monitor or other device connected?


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 15, 2021)

Summa said:


> The usual stuff - even with some badly grounded USB audio devices, I tend to go optical out only - using galvanic isolation probably works too. Is this noticeable when using Headphone only, no monitor or other device connected?


Only with headphones, I will try to isolate the bracket but right now I am trying to find out why this setup can play projects that the Motu usb interface had no problems with (at 1/4 of buffer)


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Post a pic of your windows audio settings sand Cubase audio settings....
> 
> the same as in the manual.


here are cubase settings, I don´t know what you mean by windows settings, do you mean the RME control panel?


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 17, 2021)

Ben said:


> Really strange issue, but I've never had a PCIe audio interface (I own the Fireface UFX II, runs rock solid without issues).
> It might also be an issue in combination with your mainboard, or the specific PCIe slot. If you don't want to use an USB interface you should consider testing the card in a different slot, and/or a different mainboard.


Hi Ben, since I have you here, what processor settings would you recommend in VEP and also in Kontakt to begin testing if there is something wrong cpu wise? I have 20 instances in the master PC.


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## Inventio (Mar 17, 2021)

Pablocrespo said:


> Hi, I´ve just replaced my Motu Avb (USB) interface with the new RME AIO PRO, and I have found out that Cubase performance with large orchestral projects is incredibly worse. With the Motu, I could run the projects at 1024 buffer and not a single hiccup and with the RME, I have to put the buffer at 4096 and still have problems (and lots of latency).
> 
> I have read that RME is one of the best for composing rigs but didn´t expect this behaviour, I have tried to change the pci slot but nothing happened.
> 
> ...


I have recently bought a used RME AIO to replace a pci 9632 (needed a PCI-e on this machine motherboard). At some point it picked up some electrical noise but I replaced the breakout cable and the noise disappeared. I don't know it this can help.

Performance-wise, I have never had any issue with RME in many years on different machines (with same card that I just replaced).


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## Summa (Mar 17, 2021)

@Pablocrespo You did the usual windows optimizing? 









Windows Tuning Tips for Audio Processing


This guide covers important information on how to detect and resolve audio performance issues (crackling, dropouts, artifacts) on Windows systems during audio playback. Note: You can also view the ...




support.native-instruments.com





Troubleshooting Audio Playback Issues on Windows Computers​


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 17, 2021)

Hi Summa, yes, I am deep in the rabit hole, new bios, new drivers, the results I´ve got from Latency mon are somewhat good, maybe need more help interpreting them...

The best change I have made is disabling hyperthreading with my 9900k, which is odd, since Cubase 11 suposedly is tweaked to work with 16 cores now.

Let me thank again all the insights you are giving me, I think it won´t be long until I found what the problem is!


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## colony nofi (Mar 17, 2021)

There are still circumstances where Win10 is causing issues with N/C11. 
They are still seen with buffers of under 128.
We run mostly macs here, but on the pc's that we've tested (and we've gone deep into high core count workstation chips) there's three bios settings that *help* but don't solve all the problems.

Without having the time to go into things incredibly deeply, three bios settings worth turning off (Still, in 2021!!!)
C-States OFF
Intel SpeedStep OFF
Turbo Mode OFF

And - in certain circumstances its worth messing around with
Hyper Threading OFF

In addition, there are still tonnes of other PC things that can trip up low latency performance. Dropbox *still* has some issues where syncing can interrupt audio performance. Other such systems will likely too (we just haven't looked into it here ourselves - but there's plenty of reports.)

I would seriously recommend looking into using Windows AME (https://ameliorated.info/)
YMMV - but it was a life saver for us at one moment in time.

Cubase 10 & 11 hasn't solved all the low latency issues that come to pass with Windows 10 (that were never there on 7) - and after talking to a bunch of folk who have WAY more knowledge than me on this, its unlikely they can without proposing an entirely new audio engine (which would be a multi-year project at best if they were to ever consider it)

There are other reg hacks and the like that can get you out of further trouble by restricting core use and the like - both thru editing things yourselves and a few tools out there by folk that seem to work (but also may stuff up windows use for other software)

Its not a fun path.

Many folk stick to >128 buffer samples to avoid the worst of the problems. And use things like RME totalmix to reduce problems for live performers, and adjust their playing styles to be ok with it when performing sample libs. All "pro" level (ie, all their income comes from) composer I know runs at 512 samples (with one exception...) and don't get me started on true buffer rates for those using VEP.


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 18, 2021)

Hi, thanks for the response, yes I have disabled everthing at the BIOS, hyperthreading off seems to have helped. I wish I could run things at 512!

Regarding Windows AME I will take a look, never heard of it, can you tell me more about your experience? does everything works?
(My wife´s name is Amelia, and her nickname is Ame, you can imagine her face when I showed 3. Configuring AME for stable and secure operation)


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## Pictus (Mar 18, 2021)

A new Windows installation can do wonders...
I do not know who is the culprit, but I would also do some tweaks like:

- Disable HPET
https://silicophilic.com/disabling-hpet-settings/
If does not make any difference, enable HPET

- Disable Hibernate
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2859-enable-disable-hibernate-windows-10-a.html 

-Set Windows Power Plan to "Ultimate" and the Advanced Options.


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks Pictus, I have Ultimate performance enabled, and hibernate disabled, will try HPET

I am getting clicks in my cubase exports, so this is not a "worker´s" system, I have to render stems all the time, and can´t be checking them one by one.


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks for that app, clean install is looking more likely every second. 

Today I loaded an empty cubase with one omnisphere and had no audio at 256 buffer. 512 was ok. 

I don’t know what to think.

To those pc saavy, I have all turbos and speedstep disabled and “locked” the cores at 4.9 but when I check them with cpuid or hwinfo the fluctuate between 4.901 and 4.896 (aprox numbers). Is that normal?


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## Pictus (Mar 18, 2021)

It is normal, not a problem.


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## colony nofi (Mar 18, 2021)

Definitely go with a clean system. Nothing but the absolute minimum stuff.

I'd personally start with minimal connected to the computer
Just Keyboard, Mouse, midi keyboard.
No external (internet) based services. No google drive, dropbox etc. No antivirus (I know - but keep your system air-gapped where possible just for initial testing)

Then onto a completely blank drive install Windows (I'd use AME), Cubase, Omnisphere (as it is a good test and is self contained)

And test. 

You need to be able to isolate your problem - so keeping things as simple as possible is key. 

Otherwise, we are all just shooting in the dark, hoping that we hit something in the right spot - pretty much by chance.


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## colony nofi (Mar 18, 2021)

Pablocrespo said:


> Thanks Pictus, I have Ultimate performance enabled, and hibernate disabled, will try HPET
> 
> I am getting clicks in my cubase exports, so this is not a "worker´s" system, I have to render stems all the time, and can´t be checking them one by one.


Clicks in your exports is NOT normal. This is not something you need to put up with.

I doubt this has anything to do with the RME AIO in general. I used (the older version) for 10 years on much lower grade hardware than you are talking about, and it never skipped a beat. Something somewhere else is an issue.

A quick note though.

Using a PCIE interface will NOT offload much from the CPU compared to external sound cards. Audio cards don't work like that. 
The whole world of low latency performance / differences between interfaces (USB vs PCIE vs thunderbolt (which for all intents and purposes is equivalent to PCIE) come down to the interface and how the communication occurs with the interface. The CPU hit on driving a standard USB interface vs a PCIE one is negligible. However, performance can be impacted greatly. This was a far greater delta back 10 years ago - most companies have got USB sorted now. Others like RME completely went around USB and wrote their own protocols (which work extremely well)

There's interesting info (a little old now, but still very relevant) here
http://www.dawbench.com/audio-int-lowlatency3.htm
More reading for you here as well (Windows 10 and Cubase issues)








Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups


There are a couple of tweeks in the BIOS that might help. I got these from support: Intel SpeedStep Turbo Mode CPU C-States Make sure those three are disabled. I think the C-States on did the most for me. Also, limiting the number of cores used by Cubase can help. See this article, but...




forums.steinberg.net


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks everybody, will do the clean install because this is not normal. The same machine with the motu could handle anything. 

I will need to find some free time because I thought I was having downtime and some jobs came along...not complaining though.


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## Henu (Jul 4, 2021)

Hey peeps, I have also a problem with RME card on which I would appreciate some help with. It's related to the same issue of cursing about "I didn't buy an RME card for these results", but not as severe as @Pablocrespo 's.

I'm running a clean install of Win10, RME HDSPe AIO Pci- card combined with Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 (2nd generation) as preamps and outputs. i9 processor, Asrock mobo, no other PCI slots used except for an Asus GFX card.

For some reason, I can't get the buffers go below 512 because all audio going through ASIO just_ freezes _completely. Audio going through Windows works fine (etc. browser, Winamp, etc) but any software using ASIO shuts the sound completely off in any buffer settings lower than 512. All drivers and firmware are up to date, and BIOS updated as well. I'm loosing my mind here with the issue, because I've done pretty much everything I can imagine, yet still the problem persists. 

Using Google, I can see some people having the same kind of issues, but I didn't find a single cause or solution for it. Can anyone have any idea how I could get my buffers go lower?


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## easyrider (Jul 4, 2021)

Henu said:


> Hey peeps, I have also a problem with RME card on which I would appreciate some help with. It's related to the same issue of cursing about "I didn't buy an RME card for these results", but not as severe as @Pablocrespo 's.
> 
> I'm running a clean install of Win10, RME HDSPe AIO Pci- card combined with Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 (2nd generation) as preamps and outputs. i9 processor, Asrock mobo, no other PCI slots used except for an Asus GFX card.
> 
> ...


Have you tried setting your motherboard to legacy boot ?


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## Pictus (Jul 4, 2021)

Henu said:


> Hey peeps, I have also a problem with RME card on which I would appreciate some help with. It's related to the same issue of cursing about "I didn't buy an RME card for these results", but not as severe as @Pablocrespo 's.


Disable the onboard audio, uninstall the Realtek drivers and try WASAPI instead of ASIO.


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## Pablocrespo (Jul 4, 2021)

I have to say that I somewhat cured my issues with a fresh install of everything doing restoration poinst with each app installed. But you say that you are working with a fresh install?


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## Henu (Jul 5, 2021)

Thank guys, I tried everything except for Legacy BIOS....and then I realized that this behaviour must be because of Sonarworks which I stupidly failed to mention in my first post. So yes, I'm using Sonarworks systemwide and that was the culprit of the chaos mentioned.

Funnily enough, Sonarworks didn't like going under 512 buffer at all when in use, even though no sound was passing through it. I disabled it completely and suddenly the problem was gone. When turning it back on while having that (now working) 256 buffer, the sound came out flawlessly and for my surprise I was now also able to change the buffer sizes _while_ the software was still running. Booting the machine several times and running Cubase made sure that the problem is now gone.

Related to the same problem, I can't use Sound Forge on this new setup anymore because every time the program launches and "initializing audio engine" happens, it freezes my onboard audio completely when Sonarworks is in use. Would anyone have any tips on how to make Sound Forge not to meddle with my audio settings upon launch?


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## Xabierus Music (Sep 27, 2022)

Hi, i tested this yesterday with a project that makes my cpu spikes at low latencies (192 48khz) my cpu is an oldie, i7 6700, if i disable the hyperthreading, that project is imposible to hear, cpu spikes all the time during playback, with hyperthreading enabled, i can listen to it with so much less cpu spikes (only spikes in the climax of the song) . So my advice here, test a project that you know you can diferenciate the cpu behaviour and try with and without hyperthreading, sometimes the written recomendations dont apply to all scenarios


Pablocrespo said:


> Hi Summa, yes, I am deep in the rabit hole, new bios, new drivers, the results I´ve got from Latency mon are somewhat good, maybe need more help interpreting them...
> 
> The best change I have made is disabling hyperthreading with my 9900k, which is odd, since Cubase 11 suposedly is tweaked to work with 16 cores now.
> 
> Let me thank again all the insights you are giving me, I think it won´t be long until I found what the problem is!


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## Pictus (Sep 27, 2022)

I updated this post and may have some useful tweaks not only for Nvidia.





Nvidia Driver, no latency anymore?


Hi all! We all know that AMD drivers have from far, less latency than Nvidia drivers, and for that reason we all recommand an AMD graphic card for audio working. But recently i have dealt with a new install on a PC with an Nvidia graphic card. And when i updated to the latest driver i saw an...




vi-control.net


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## Xabierus Music (Sep 27, 2022)

Henu said:


> Thank guys, I tried everything except for Legacy BIOS....and then I realized that this behaviour must be because of Sonarworks which I stupidly failed to mention in my first post. So yes, I'm using Sonarworks systemwide and that was the culprit of the chaos mentioned.
> 
> Funnily enough, Sonarworks didn't like going under 512 buffer at all when in use, even though no sound was passing through it. I disabled it completely and suddenly the problem was gone. When turning it back on while having that (now working) 256 buffer, the sound came out flawlessly and for my surprise I was now also able to change the buffer sizes _while_ the software was still running. Booting the machine several times and running Cubase made sure that the problem is now gone.
> 
> Related to the same problem, I can't use Sound Forge on this new setup anymore because every time the program launches and "initializing audio engine" happens, it freezes my onboard audio completely when Sonarworks is in use. Would anyone have any tips on how to make Sound Forge not to meddle with my audio settings upon launch?


Be aware that the buffer size you set up in sonarworks systemwide app will have trouble if you change the audio iterface buffer size, you get latency and audio dropouts, (i had thatnissue too), my workaround was to work with the same buffer size on both cubase and system wide, and if i need to change the buffer size in cubase, i close the systemwide app (sometimes it crashes alone), and sometimes it works fine (misteriously)


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## Henu (Sep 27, 2022)

Thanks, I can't remember now which settings I have there, but it has been working stable for a year now!  

I also solved the Sound Forge issue, if anyone is interested. It was a stupid mistake never occurred before, and Windows had given exclusive permissions for that software to hog all audio.


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