# StaffPad - Now Available for IPad with Major Sample Libraries Available



## Eric G

I have had the PC version for a while and now the new 2020 update is out and for those of you aspiring to do notation by hand (with realtime recognition with Apple Pencil or tablet on PC) it could be a game changer.

StaffPad for IPad has been released and for me it is grounbreaking.








It's here: the StaffPad 2020 Update


StaffPad is a music notation and composition app designed for handwriting music recognition, touch editing, amazing playback, automatic score layout and realtime parts over WiFi. Available in the App Store for iPad and iPadOS, and the Windows Store for Windows 10.




www.staffpad.net





And BTW, Spitfire Audio Symphonic Orchestra, OT Orchestra, Cinesamples complete orchestra have specialized versions available.
MIDI, MusicXML support and more.

Check it out. Spitfire Symphonic Strings: StaffPad Edition



Cinesamples & Orchestral Tools Orchestras


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## tmhuud

This is pretty exciting. I used StaffPad on a Surface 3 quite some time ago and liked it. And now it’s for the ipadPro, etc. The “Snow Falling” example sounds good w/ CineSamples and Berlin libraries.


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## emasters

That sounds good -- the Spitfire Strings video dynamics are as one would expect. Not an inexpensive app (as iPad apps go) and the 3rd party libraries cost adds-up. But the end result is hard to argue with. Always wondered if one could write a score and have it played-back without re-recording in a DAW...


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## tmhuud

Loved the Elgar. A couple of dodgy dynamic shifts but pretty darned good. It would be interesting to hear from the sample devs as to the details in stripping down their ind libraries to make them fit SP.


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## lucor

Anyone know if you have to buy the iOS version again, if you already own the Microsoft version? Don't really want to spend 99€ again...


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## CT

Whiplash. Just learned about Staffpad last week or so, was excited, then let down on seeing certain limitations (and Apple incompatibility). Now my interest is rekindled....


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## Eric G

lucor said:


> Anyone know if you have to buy the iOS version again, if you already own the Microsoft version? Don't really want to spend 99€ again...



Yes. Just purchased the IPad version. In all fairness its a brand new app on IOS.


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## ProfoundSilence

dang, I was really looking into possibly getting a surface JUST for staffpad, but I decided to hold off. 

maybe good things come to those who wait, and after a while we'll get some reviews in for the newer staffpad.


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## jonathanparham

Love staffpad. Will look into this


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## lucor

Looking forward to some user reviews, especially regarding the handwriting recognition.
I just downloaded Staffpad for windows again and painted around with my mouse a bit (since my Surface broke) and the recognition is absolutely horrible. No matter how neat I paint things in, things rarely work. Dynamic markings like p and f or staccato markings don't work at all, hairpins are turning into slurs, while slurs aren't working at all either, and so on...
This unfortunately also reflects my experience with Staffpad when I still had my Surface + Pen.

I really hope it's working better than this and it's my error, because it looks fantastic and would be a dream come true.


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## ProfoundSilence

any idea how much those packs cost?

I own all those libraries, I don't know if I want to pay a 2nd time


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## CT

The whole "Reader" thing would be massively useful during rehearsals and recording sessions... if you can arrange for everyone to have a tablet in front of them, that is.


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## CT

ProfoundSilence said:


> any idea how much those packs cost?



A few of them:


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## Eric G

lucor said:


> Looking forward to some user reviews, especially regarding the handwriting recognition.
> I just downloaded Staffpad for windows again and painted around with my mouse a bit (since my Surface broke) and the recognition is absolutely horrible. No matter how neat I paint things in, things rarely work. Dynamic markings like p and f or staccato markings don't work at all, hairpins are turning into slurs, while slurs aren't working at all either, and so on...
> This unfortunately also reflects my experience with Staffpad when I still had my Surface + Pen.
> 
> I really hope it's working better than this and it's my error, because it looks fantastic and would be a dream come true.



So you didn't use a stylus? It is designed to work with the Surface Stylus and uses Windows Ink.

A mouse won't do it. I have a surface and IPad and both work great but not 100%. I am at about 87% right now because I haven't written notation in a while. With practice I should get it to 99% in no time.


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## Eric G

ProfoundSilence said:


> any idea how much those packs cost?
> 
> I own all those libraries, I don't know if I want to pay a 2nd time



They are about $99 for each section. I am making my decisions now. But it looks like OT took a lot of time to customize their libraries for Staffpad. They went all in.


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## ProfoundSilence

uggggggg

lol

somebody buy my seaboard and VSL stuff so I can actually afford this in the future


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## damcry

So now , extra light libraries on small tablets sound quite as good as huge libraries on killing PC/mac machines ... 
??


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## ProfoundSilence

damcry said:


> So now , extra light libraries on small tablets sound quite as good as huge libraries on killing PC/mac machines ...
> ??


I wouldn't count on that, but it's certainly going to be good for sketching


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## lucor

Eric G said:


> So you didn't use a stylus? It is designed to work with the Surface Stylus and uses Windows Ink.
> 
> A mouse won't do it. I have a surface and IPad and both work great but not 100%. I am at about 87% right now because I haven't written notation in a while. With practice I should get it to 99% in no time.


Nope, just the mouse since my Surface died. Since notes are working pretty ok with mouse input, you'd think everything else would too, but it doesn't. Here's a quick example of things that should be easily recognizable, but aren't.





I hope this is indeed some technological error due to using a mouse and it works fine with a pen. If others have the same experience as you, I'll probably bite the bullet and buy it again for my iPad.


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## Eric G

ProfoundSilence said:


> I wouldn't count on that, but it's certainly going to be good for sketching


I agree with that assessment. A very good sketching tool. And digging end there is alot of considerations for interacting with DAWs and Notation Programs with better MIDI and MUSIC XML format.

Dynamics are exported as CC11. Tempos can be uploaded from DAWs etc...

They thought this out.


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## Eric G

lucor said:


> Nope, just the mouse since my Surface died. Since notes are working pretty ok with mouse input, you'd think everything else would too, but it doesn't. Here's a quick example of things that should be easily recognizable, but aren't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this is indeed some technological error due to using a mouse and it works fine with a pen. If others have the same experience as you, I'll probably bite the bullet and buy it again for my iPad.



Hate to do this to you but I just tried everything you did above with a mouse and it worked so I don't know what's going on your machine. Had to do the forte a couple of times but it worked.


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## ALittleNightMusic

This is pretty amazing - I remember this coming out on the Surface some years ago and wished it was on the iPad. Any idea how large the premium libraries are? Wondering how big of an iPad Pro I need in terms of storage space.


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## jbuhler

ProfoundSilence said:


> I wouldn't count on that, but it's certainly going to be good for sketching


Seems like at the moment this is more competition for the combination of traditional notation program and Note Performer than mocking things up in a DAW. Of course, Note Performer is getting better results all the time, so who knows where it all might end up?


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## ProfoundSilence

jbuhler said:


> Seems like at the moment this is more competition for the combination of traditional notation program and Note Performer than mocking things up in a DAW. Of course, Note Performer is getting better results all the time, so who knows where it all might end up?




in my case, it's an issue of hating notation programs by default, and this *could* be remedied if writing it by hand was 90% of the way there in a program.


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## jonathanparham

miket said:


> A few of them:


Ok maybe I'm too excited and am missing something. I know in Staffpad you can you add on instruments. But Are you saying that even if you own a Cinebrass library or Berlin Strings that these are EXTRA add ons to be paid for? Only on the Ipad side and not the Surface side?


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## pinki

Notion has had iPad handwriting for some time. It works well. It has a full orchestral library (the LSO) and costs not much at all. Not Berlin Strings but if it’s just for sketching...and it seamlessly transfers back and forth to the desktop version.


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## tmhuud

pinki said:


> Notion has had iPad handwriting for some time. It works well. It has a full orchestral library (the LSO) and costs not much at all. Not Berlin Strings but if it’s just for sketching...and it seamlessly transfers back and forth to the desktop version.



I love NOTION. Use it everyday. I would like to try and compare the nimbleness and palm rejection tech between the two though. Specifically for south paws.


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## pinki

Yeh me too..I just used their prules to integrate Vienna Synchron SE and it’s *amazing.*
sorry off topic back to Staffpad


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## G_Erland

Is it the samples that makes staffpad sound like that, its just standard notation right, and then the samples are taking care of the dynamic levels? The one im using sounds pretty stiff by comparison, id say.


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## dcoscina

tmhuud said:


> I love NOTION. Use it everyday. I would like to try and compare the nimbleness and palm rejection tech between the two though. Specifically for south paws.


Me too! I unfortunately have an Air 2 which isn’t compatible with the Apple Pencil hence Staffpad.


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## dcoscina

In depth review of it here by Scoring Notes.


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## dcoscina

I was all ready to buy this when I realized my Air 2 doesn’t support it. Now instead of a couple hundred dollars I’m looking at $600 if I want to buy that and a new iPad. Drat.


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## Sears Poncho

dcoscina said:


> In depth review of it here by Scoring Notes.


Cool, thanks for posting this. Very clever, amazing world we live in. This would drive me absolutely nuts, but I'm not the target audience, at least not yet. And my handwriting is unreadable by man and machine. I can't read my own. Lefty. Can't write, can't use scissors.


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## mikeh-375

Sears Poncho said:


> Cool, thanks for posting this. Very clever, amazing world we live in. This would drive me absolutely nuts, but I'm not the target audience, at least not yet. And my handwriting is unreadable by man and machine. I can't read my own. Lefty. Can't write, can't use scissors.




Lefty here too, but I do use Staffpad for jotting down ideas and working out material...its brilliant.


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## Richard Wilkinson

Really enjoying it so far, but I'm holding off on the instrument packs. I can't really tell which combination of strings, brass & ww is going to be better. Are they all equal in terms of articulations, dynamic range etc with just tone and room difference?


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## jonathanparham

I just got through with a nice email exchange with Mr. Hearns of Staffpad LTD. One he says the updates will come to PC tablets hopefully in the next 48 hours. Two I asked about future partnerships with more library developers and he mentions that he would like to continue, but just has to find more time.


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## Eric G

jonathanparham said:


> I just got through with a nice email exchange with Mr. Hearns of Staffpad LTD. One he says the updates will come to PC tablets helpfully in the next 48 hours. Two I asked about future partnerships with more library developers and he mentions that he would like to continue, but just has to find more time.


Well at least they started at the Top and went comprehensive. The CinePERC library is ridiculous at only $99 for 100 instruments.


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## prodigalson

I love StaffPad and I’m very excited to have it on my iPad. If writing with staff pad can really get close to the results in the videos then that really would be something and would be worth the money...

im confused by the integration of the commercial sample libraries though. There’s no info whatsoever on the size of the libraries and storage necessary for installation. I’m trying to download the Spitfire Chamber Strings but it keeps failing and there’s no way of knowing if it’s an issue with the app or storage space. I’ve freed up 4 gbs just for the library and the download fails asking me to PURCHASE again (hell no). I’m assuming it’s hard storage space but there’s simply no way to know because theres no information in the app.


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## prodigalson

this is what I’m dealing with. I’ve already purchased and downloaded, the on,y option given to deal with this error is To purchase again. I have no way of knowing if the purchase went through or not, but that would be surprising seeing as I was actually able to download it (in theory)

very confusing app purchase experience with no clarifying information


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## dcoscina

mikeh-375 said:


> Lefty here too, but I do use Staffpad for jotting down ideas and working out material...its brilliant.


I’m left handed too and I had a surface with staff pad years ago but I couldn’t stand the interface at the time. But I’m gonna be buying a newer iPad for this program. It looks like it’s been significantly improved since I tried it.


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## Eric G

prodigalson said:


> I love StaffPad and I’m very excited to have it on my iPad. If writing with staff pad can really get close to the results in the videos then that really would be something and would be worth the money...
> 
> im confused by the integration of the commercial sample libraries though. There’s no info whatsoever on the size of the libraries and storage necessary for installation. I’m trying to download the Spitfire Chamber Strings but it keeps failing and there’s no way of knowing if it’s an issue with the app or storage space. I’ve freed up 4 gbs just for the library and the download fails asking me to PURCHASE again (hell no). I’m assuming it’s hard storage space but there’s simply no way to know because theres no information in the app.



I have downloaded ALL of the Orchestral Tools Strings, Woods, Brass, Piano, Harp and CinePERC for a total of about 8GB of IPad data storage. Not very scientific but that's all I got.


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## Eric G

prodigalson said:


> this is what I’m dealing with. I’ve already purchased and downloaded, the on,y option given to deal with this error is To purchase again. I have no way of knowing if the purchase went through or not, but that would be surprising seeing as I was actually able to download it (in theory)
> 
> very confusing app purchase experience with no clarifying information



Of course open a support ticket. If you don't want to wait, re-install the whole app and try to do a "restore purchases" if you can verify the purchases hit your account.


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## Loïc D

dcoscina said:


> I’m left handed too and I had a surface with staff pad years ago but I couldn’t stand the interface at the time. But I’m gonna be buying a newer iPad for this program. It looks like it’s been significantly improved since I tried it.


Lefty too (but playing right handed guitar & bass).
That StaffPad app is impressive! I'll be thinking about it once I get a new iPad (mine is... old).


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## Pablocrespo

Lefty here too and vert tempted. Which would be the more basic ipad with pencil that could handle this app nicely?


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## dcoscina

There are tons of demos now using Spitfire libraries and Jesus it sounds really good. The chamber strings in particular are bloody beautiful.


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## dcoscina

Eric G said:


> I have downloaded ALL of the Orchestral Tools Strings, Woods, Brass, Piano, Harp and CinePERC for a total of about 8GB of IPad data storage. Not very scientific but that's all I got.


It looks like there’s also Spitfire strings, brass, and winds. Wonder what that would be as far as memory footprint
Also how does the OT stuff sound?


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## JF

dcoscina said:


> It looks like there’s also Spitfire strings, brass, and winds. Wonder what that would be as far as memory footprint
> Also how does the OT stuff sound?


Berlin strings here:


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## prodigalson

Eric G said:


> Of course open a support ticket. If you don't want to wait, re-install the whole app and try to do a "restore purchases" if you can verify the purchases hit your account.



Yes, I’ve opened a ticket but the thing here is that it may simply be that I’m downloading more than my iPad can store. I’ve freed up a little over 4 gbs but theres no info on how big any of these libraries are. They’re reduced articulation sets with I’m assuming less round robins and supposedly a more aggressive form of data compression....but how much storage space will you need? I have 32 gb on my iPad Pro...but if one of these libraris takes up 20 gb alone...


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## dcoscina

Maybe I’m not hearing this right but the expressiveness from StaffPad using these custom version libraries sounds actually better than their DAW library counterparts. How the heck can that be?


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## CT

dcoscina said:


> There are tons of demos now using Spitfire libraries and Jesus it sounds really good. The chamber strings in particular are bloody beautiful.




This is really, really impressive....


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## JF

dcoscina said:


> Maybe I’m not hearing this right but the expressiveness from StaffPad using these custom version libraries sounds actually better than their DAW library counterparts. How the heck can that be?


You know I was thinking the same thing..


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## CT

Well there's no denying that the overall performance is easier to get right when the actual directions in the score are simply followed as written (to the extent the samples can mange), as opposed to having to perform them yourself.


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## MauroPantin

I have a Windows 10 tablet and would love to take this for a spin, but I need to get an active pen and I'm not sure if it has palm detection. I am definitely interested.


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## ptram

dcoscina said:


> Maybe I’m not hearing this right but the expressiveness from StaffPad using these custom version libraries sounds actually better than their DAW library counterparts.


Yes, it doesn't seem to be the simple mechanical reproduction of written notes. There is some magic going on. Maybe something similar to what NotePerformer does with other notation programs.

Paolo


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## JF

Eric G said:


> I have downloaded ALL of the Orchestral Tools Strings, Woods, Brass, Piano, Harp and CinePERC for a total of about 8GB of IPad data storage. Not very scientific but that's all I got.


Are the libraries relatively balanced together? For example, if you use berlin strings with cineperc are they incompatible volumewise?


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## emasters

I think the "magic" that creates the expressiveness, is the automation that can be overlaid/drawn on each staff (see their YouTube videos on how this works). It's actually pretty clever being able to draw it in over the notes. It would be interesting to see for the Spitfire and Berlin videos, what the expression automation looks like. I don't know but am guessing, that's where the dynamics come from. It does sound good, though.


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## SimonCharlesHanna

How does it deal with divisi legato with these custom libs?


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## leonardo_est17

Hey!

I have bought StaffPad a couple years back. (i'm on Windows)

The update came to town but i don't seem to be able to update the app!!

I went to the MS Store and checked for updates….nothing.
I unistaled StaffPad and reeinstaled it through the Store….nothing. (I get the old version)

Anyone with similar problem????


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## jeremiahpena

leonardo_est17 said:


> Hey!
> 
> I have bought StaffPad a couple years back. (i'm on Windows)
> 
> The update came to town but i don't seem to be able to update the app!!
> 
> I went to the MS Store and checked for updates….nothing.
> I unistaled StaffPad and reeinstaled it through the Store….nothing. (I get the old version)
> 
> Anyone with similar problem????



I tried the same thing. The update is a roll-out, so unfortunately it seems we just have to wait until it shows up.


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## Eric G

dcoscina said:


> It looks like there’s also Spitfire strings, brass, and winds. Wonder what that would be as far as memory footprint
> Also how does the OT stuff sound?


The OT Stuff sounds better, that is why I choose to go all OT+CinPERC. If you watch the walthroughs on the IPad you can hear the difference plus you can tell OT is a favorite of David one of the Designers of StaffPad. And he loves the CinePERC which I have to agree is simply amazing.

It comes down to this. Can I write MIDI better than the StaffPad engine every time I compose something. The answer for me is a NO.


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## Eric G

leonardo_est17 said:


> Hey!
> 
> I have bought StaffPad a couple years back. (i'm on Windows)
> 
> The update came to town but i don't seem to be able to update the app!!
> 
> I went to the MS Store and checked for updates….nothing.
> I unistaled StaffPad and reeinstaled it through the Store….nothing. (I get the old version)
> 
> Anyone with similar problem????



The team as StaffPad said the Windows Store roll-out will happen gradually the next 48 hours. I have it also and can't wait.


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## Eric G

JF said:


> Are the libraries relatively balanced together? For example, if you use berlin strings with cineperc are they incompatible volumewise?


Yes I have the OT Strings, Brass, WW, Harp, Piano + CiniPERC. And yes it sound amazing out of the box. Also note you have complete control over, Panning, Reverb, Volume, Dynamics (CC11) etc... so you can do your own balancing if necessary.


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## Eric G

prodigalson said:


> Yes, I’ve opened a ticket but the thing here is that it may simply be that I’m downloading more than my iPad can store. I’ve freed up a little over 4 gbs but theres no info on how big any of these libraries are. They’re reduced articulation sets with I’m assuming less round robins and supposedly a more aggressive form of data compression....but how much storage space will you need? I have 32 gb on my iPad Pro...but if one of these libraris takes up 20 gb alone...


I have downloaded ALL of the Orchestral Tools Strings, Woods, Brass, Piano, Harp and CinePERC for a total of about *8GB of IPad data storage*. I have 256GB on my IPad Pro.


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## EricBarndollar

Excited to try this new version out. I was really starting to think the app was abandonware after multiple years of no updates. Hopefully we'll get more incremental updates now that they've gone through this major cross-platform re-write.

I do really hope they offer some kind of sound pack discounts for users who already own the full corresponding sample libraries, though. I understand that additional work had to be done to make these "StaffPad editions", but I don't think it's reasonable to expect users to pay the same full prices as if they didn't already pay for these samples.

And as someone who uses lots of Microsoft and Apple products, I don't like how segregated the Windows vs. iPad store app ownership model is. I'm guessing that applies to the sound packs too -- you would have to buy each of them twice if you wanted to use cross-platform?

Imagine if you had to pay double to get both VST and AU versions of most sample libraries or audio plugins...


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## KEM

This looks really cool and I can definitely see it vastly improving the workflow and speed of orchestrating!

Guess I should actually learn how to read and write sheet music...


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## prodigalson

Eric G said:


> I have downloaded ALL of the Orchestral Tools Strings, Woods, Brass, Piano, Harp and CinePERC for a total of about *8GB of IPad data storage*. I have 256GB on my IPad Pro.



Woah, really??? 8gb for all that??

well maybe it’s not a storage issue then though I’m pretty mystified as to how they could have compressed even just 2 dynamic layers and 2 round robins of all those articulations and instruments to less than 1 or two gigs...I guess it is just one mic position....


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## ALittleNightMusic

Berlin Strings only have the decca tree per their store which I suppose makes sense in order to reduce size. They also state they are optimizing and editing all of the relevant samples, so seems like a lot of custom work - hence the price I suppose!

Unfortunately, I am getting a bunch of documentWrite errors on my older iPad pro and the app crashes too. Hopefully they can rapidly address! Otherwise, will need to request a refund from Apple :(


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## PhilipJohnston

I've been getting the same error on iPad Pro Gen 2—contacted dev who responded quickly, there's a patch on its way.


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## ALittleNightMusic

PhilipJohnston said:


> I've been getting the same error on iPad Pro Gen 2—contacted dev who responded quickly, there's a patch on its way.



Great to hear! The handwriting recognition doesn’t seem to work for me maybe like 40% of the time. I guess I need to practice my writing more. Maybe they can add a different input method too (like choosing note lengths and then using pencil to place the note).


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## Eric G

prodigalson said:


> Woah, really??? 8gb for all that??
> 
> well maybe it’s not a storage issue then though I’m pretty mystified as to how they could have compressed even just 2 dynamic layers and 2 round robins of all those articulations and instruments to less than 1 or two gigs...I guess it is just one mic position....



Knowing what we all know about Sample Libs, I watched my IPad storage after each install. No more than 2GB of IPad storage for each one. Just downloaded VOXOS Choir so now I am up to 11.36 GB to be exact since I went into the Settings dialog and found the exact number. So that is OT Berlin Strings, WW,Brass, Piano, Harp, CinePERC, and VOXOS = 11.36GB. (IPad Pro 2nd Gen 256GB)

BTW VOXO sounds magical and you can change the articulation just by typing in a lyric. I don't know how they are technically doing this.


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## emilio_n

Looks really cool, but crazy expensive, taking in mind that you need to add the price of several libraries to make it sound good. Some tried in the iPad Pro 12,8 first generation?


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## ALittleNightMusic

I am finding the built in library sufficient for writing as I still plan to properly mock up in a DAW. The challenge for me has been the somewhat tricky note input via writing. I can’t for the life of me get it to recognize an “f” as forte for example.

Notion from Presonus is old but quite good still. It has a few different note input options including handwriting (for $8) that I am finding works better than StaffPad actually. Presonus has also stated they are planning some major and minor updates soon.


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## gyprock

Looks like you can’t playback only selected bars. This is a major setback because I like to isolate and audition sections or a melody against bass part or just a harmony etc. You can mute or solo an instrument but that’s not the same thing and is a workflow killer. Anyone else found that this is the case?

Another issue: you can’t increase or decrease a dynamic with the pen. You have to delete and reinsert text.


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## emilio_n

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I am finding the built in library sufficient for writing as I still plan to properly mock up in a DAW. The challenge for me has been the somewhat tricky note input via writing. I can’t for the life of me get it to recognize an “f” as forte for example.
> 
> Notion from Presonus is old but quite good still. It has a few different note input options including handwriting (for $8) that I am finding works better than StaffPad actually. Presonus has also stated they are planning some major and minor updates soon.


I have Notion for iPad and is nice but a little bit outdated. The last update of the app was more than 2 years ago. Good to know they are planning new things. I can't remember, but I think it was cheaper by far than Staffpad but maybe is absolutely different.
I love that Notion have a virtual keyboard so you can input the notes on this way.


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## ptram

The release of StaffPad for iPad Pro is finally convincing me that I should buy... a Surface! Do you think the smaller and cheaper Surface Go, with 4/64 GB of memory could work nicely with StaffPad?

Paolo


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## mikeh-375

ptram said:


> The release of StaffPad for iPad Pro is finally convincing me that I should buy... a Surface! Do you think the smaller and cheaper Surface Go, with 4/64 GB of memory could work nicely with StaffPad?
> 
> Paolo



I bought a HP Envy for a larger touch screen...more real estate is handy. Staffpad works fine with it as does Sibelius using a pen. I'm a Mac guy, have been all of my life, but I certainly don't regret buying this as it is nice to use the laptop as a manuscript book.


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## ChrisHarrison

I just ordered an ipad pro for classroom use with this app and composing on the fly. I'll plan on putting up a review when I get it. 

Has anyone experienced the difference between the surface pro input vs the apple input on the new software?


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## Leandro Gardini

Long time user of Staffpad here and update is not available yet.
Microsoft!🙄


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## dcoscina

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I am finding the built in library sufficient for writing as I still plan to properly mock up in a DAW. The challenge for me has been the somewhat tricky note input via writing. I can’t for the life of me get it to recognize an “f” as forte for example.
> 
> Notion from Presonus is old but quite good still. It has a few different note input options including handwriting (for $8) that I am finding works better than StaffPad actually. Presonus has also stated they are planning some major and minor updates soon.


As a long time user of Notion (since 2005 when it first debuted on Windows), I hope Presonus actually does update the iOS app because it's been forever since they have and over several iOS major updates. Notion for ipad is very fast and as a composing tool, it's still the quickest for me to get ideas out on the go. But it needs some TLC. I'm worried that the lack of a major update even on the desktop version(s) is a telling sign that Presonus doesn't really care about it and will eventually drop it...


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## ptram

mikeh-375 said:


> I'm a Mac guy, have been all of my life, but I certainly don't regret buying this as it is nice to use the laptop as a manuscript book.


I think I will end up following your steps. I can't consider the iPad Pro a real laptop, since too much of the software I need to use when going around aren't available.

It's a paradox, but a Windows convertible can be more compatible with my Mac, since I can run Dorico with the same key, download a temporary license for Adobe Creative Cloud or Sibelius.

I can even use my own keyboard layout, something that has always been prevented on the iPad (unless I use a keyboard macro manager).

From a professional point of view, if I want a tablet with pen input capabilities, I'm forced to go Windows.

Paolo


----------



## ptram

dcoscina said:


> Notion for ipad is very fast and as a composing tool, it's still the quickest for me to get ideas out on the go.


I've never been able to like Notion, even if I understand it is powerful and well conceived. It lacks some of the visual elegance I see in StaffPad (that I don't have, and can only appreciate on video). On the plus side, it works with any older iPad, and it even works with your fingers!

The best handwriting I've found, up to now, is Kawai Touch Notation, making use of an easy-to-understand shorthand alphabet. For example, a quaver is simply a short diagonal gesture. It also seems to be a simpler and less ambitious program, but it works great for quick scribbling of ideas.

StaffPad is impressive for how it can lead to impressive mockups. It seems to me a very different option than what we have had up to now.

But would someone like to compare StaffPad and Notion, to explain the pro and cons of each one?

Paolo


----------



## dcoscina

ptram said:


> I've never been able to like Notion, even if I understand it is powerful and well conceived. It lacks some of the visual elegance I see in StaffPad (that I don't have, and can only appreciate on video). On the plus side, it works with any older iPad, and it even works with your fingers!
> 
> The best handwriting I've found, up to now, is Kawai Touch Notation, making use of an easy-to-understand shorthand alphabet. For example, a quaver is simply a short diagonal gesture. It also seems to be a simpler and less ambitious program, but it works great for quick scribbling of ideas.
> 
> StaffPad is impressive for how it can lead to impressive mockups. It seems to me a very different option than what we have had up to now.
> 
> But would someone like to compare StaffPad and Notion, to explain the pro and cons of each one?
> 
> Paolo


I have both though admittedly StaffPad for Windows is on a crappy little Windows tablet that never worked properly. I did have a Surface 3 Pro that I used StaffPad on before I got so frustrated that I returned it and bought my current Macbook Air i7 back in 2016. That was the last time I used StaffPad. If the palm recognition worked better, I would have stuck with it but I'm left handed and the Surface or the program were exceedingly painful to try to write down a simple phrase. Notion for iOS is just so much faster. However Presonus has not supported it in several years and its playback is rather poor. For mobile composing, it's fine but needs to be exported to a DAW proper or else Dorico or Sibelius. 

The allure of the new iOS StaffPad is that its playback sounds terrific and the issues I had seem to have been ironed out. I'd love to jump into it full bore but I'm also seeing some people with iPad Pros having some issues so I think I will hold off until some of those things get resolved. I need a new iPad or Pro as well to run this. I would be curious to see how the basic iPad ver 6 runs this program since it's on the A10 chip not the A12 or A12x like the pros. The expansion libraries sound delicious but are rather expensive, especially for those of us who have their full libraries already. Hard to swallow that pill.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

ptram said:


> I've never been able to like Notion, even if I understand it is powerful and well conceived. It lacks some of the visual elegance I see in StaffPad (that I don't have, and can only appreciate on video). On the plus side, it works with any older iPad, and it even works with your fingers!
> 
> The best handwriting I've found, up to now, is Kawai Touch Notation, making use of an easy-to-understand shorthand alphabet. For example, a quaver is simply a short diagonal gesture. It also seems to be a simpler and less ambitious program, but it works great for quick scribbling of ideas.
> 
> StaffPad is impressive for how it can lead to impressive mockups. It seems to me a very different option than what we have had up to now.
> 
> But would someone like to compare StaffPad and Notion, to explain the pro and cons of each one?
> 
> Paolo



I have both on my iPad - as I mentioned above, Notion has more input mechanisms which is helpful. Also, the handwriting recognition works pretty great. It also has a “record” mode to play in with an on screen keyboard - faster for me at times. The Presonus product manager for Notion mentioned in December they have a dedicated team working on a big update and a minor update with handwriting improvements and more is in beta testing.

Staffpad has a slicker UI and more cool tricks in terms of handwriting input but those don’t matter if the recognition isn’t up to par, which sadly I have found it is not. Because they don’t have another input mechanism, if it doesn’t detect your writing, you’re out of luck - you can just sit there for a long time trying to get it to recognize. Hopefully it gets better but I may ask for a refund for now and buy it later then.

For sounds, for me, both are sufficient with the included sounds as I don’t need it to sound pristine since I use this more for composing.


----------



## ptram

dcoscina said:


> I need a new iPad or Pro as well to run this.


Be aware that the Apple Pencil 2 is only compatible with iPad Pro models. And it makes a big difference with the previous version, the only one you can use on any other iPad model.

Thank you for your explanation!

Paolo


----------



## ptram

ALittleNightMusic said:


> The Presonus product manager for Notion mentioned in December they have a dedicated team working on a big update and a minor update with handwriting improvements and more is in beta testing.


Great news, and nice that they can see what the main competitor has been able to achieve in the meantime.

Paolo


----------



## prodigalson

Update:

The Berlin Strings library purchased and installed just fine so I suspect there is specifcally an issue with the SCS library. Perhaps all the SF libraries. Is there anyone here that can confirm they have installed the SCS library successfully? 

Now that I have this working...wow. So easy to use. I used Staffpad on Surface for quite a while so I'm somewhat used to how it wants you write for best results. But now, the implementation of the commercial libraries is pretty incredible on first blush. I swapped out the stirngs of another composition with the Berlin Strings and it worked flawlessly, so easy to tweak the modulation curves for a differet result. Some machine gunning on a couple repeated short notes but I suspect it would be esily fixed with a CC tweak. Curious all short notes respond to CC dynamics curve and no ability to adjust velocities. 

Will be intrestd to see if this can really find its way into my workflow and if so...it's going to be very expensive!


----------



## mikeh-375

ptram said:


> I think I will end up following your steps. I can't consider the iPad Pro a real laptop, since too much of the software I need to use when going around aren't available.
> 
> It's a paradox, but a Windows convertible can be more compatible with my Mac, since I can run Dorico with the same key, download a temporary license for Adobe Creative Cloud or Sibelius.
> 
> I can even use my own keyboard layout, something that has always been prevented on the iPad (unless I use a keyboard macro manager).
> 
> From a professional point of view, if I want a tablet with pen input capabilities, I'm forced to go Windows.
> 
> Paolo



Another big plus of course is the numeric keyboard on a laptop. It's a joy working Sibelius with a pen and keyboard. I really want one of those big Surface pros but can't justify it yet to the missus. I'll let her spend more money whilst watching from afar and carefully making my plans.... :emoji_dress: I've no idea why I dropped in a dress emoji there...


----------



## gussunkri

mikeh-375 said:


> :emoji_dress: I've no idea why I dropped in a dress emoji there...


Because you enjoy wearing one while composing?


----------



## waveheavy

Eric G said:


> Yes I have the OT Strings, Brass, WW, Harp, Piano + CiniPERC. And yes it sound amazing out of the box. Also note you have complete control over, Panning, Reverb, Volume, Dynamics (CC11) etc... so you can do your own balancing if necessary.



So the sample articulations have the normal layers for velocity, to affect things like brass timbre? Affecting volume dynamics is one thing, but timbre between p and ff is another.


----------



## dcoscina

Looks like Notion iOS major updates is out. Tell me that wasn’t planned to coincide with StaffPad.


----------



## prodigalson

With respect to the handwriting not being up to par, I suspect this may be many users first impression if they just open the app and try to start writing. When I first started using it on the surface I had the same reaction. But watching the walkthrough videos and handwriting tips clearly showed that there are specific things StaffPad expects to see and that can be very useful in getting better results quicker.

the other thing is that StaffPad learns your tendencies as you go so every time it doesn’t understand your gesture, as soon as you correct it to something it understands it learns what you intended and my impression is that over a little time it becomes better at understanding


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

dcoscina said:


> Looks like Notion iOS major updates is out. Tell me that wasn’t planned to coincide with StaffPad.



Per Presonus this is actually a minor update vs what they have in store


----------



## dcoscina

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Per Presonus this is actually a minor update vs what they have in store


Oh really? Hmmm, now I'm curious as to what their major update will have...


----------



## Eric G

Windows StaffPad Update has arrived. Downloading Now, 1GB.


----------



## Elephant

Quickly scanning this thread, I did n't see anyone posting this link https://www.scoringnotes.com/reviews/staffpad-for-ipad/ which I found v helpful

A few points of interest - for me this is an alternative to the Sibelius (or Dorico) / NP combination.

@mikeh-375 - as you have both Staffpad and Sibelius, when do you use SP and when do you use Sibelius ? Given the review above and the importing errors in Sibelius from SP musicXML, how do you handle that in your workflow ?

For Staffpad folks - what I would like to see is MIDI keyboard input, muicXML export options specifically giving options for Sibelius, Dorico and Finale destined output, direct outputs so a DAW can be bolted on the end of this thing to handle mixing, effects, etc, and a way of syncing playback to or from a DAW. It would also be great to know how far each of the offered libraries can render all the possible articulation makings in Staffpad. And,thank you for raising the bar on playback from notation !

To Spitfire - BBCSO ? (Certainly for Windows machines - I somehow can't imagine an ipad handling that ....)

I think it will be really interesting to see what happens as the notation software providers start to include intelligent playback layers.


----------



## jonathanparham

ptram said:


> The release of StaffPad for iPad Pro is finally convincing me that I should buy... a Surface! Do you think the smaller and cheaper Surface Go, with 4/64 GB of memory could work nicely with StaffPad?
> 
> Paolo


I bought a used Surface Pro 3 on ebay in 2015 for staffpad. A lot of what iPad users are referring to I have not experienced greatly. I'm just making an occasional part for a player. But have used to write things before mocking up.


----------



## jonathanparham

ptram said:


> It's a paradox, but a Windows convertible can be more compatible with my Mac, since I can run Dorico with the same key, download a temporary license for Adobe Creative Cloud or Sibelius.


I've loaded Pro Tools and EWQLSO Gold for working while traveling. I was surprised but with 8 gig on the surface pro I can get some stuff done.


----------



## mikeh-375

Elephant said:


> Quickly scanning this thread, I did n't see anyone posting this link https://www.scoringnotes.com/reviews/staffpad-for-ipad/ which I found v helpful
> 
> A few points of interest - for me this is an alternative to the Sibelius (or Dorico) / NP combination.
> 
> @mikeh-375 - as you have both Staffpad and Sibelius, when do you use SP and when do you use Sibelius ? Given the review above and the importing errors in Sibelius from SP musicXML, how do you handle that in your workflow ?



I don't import @Elephant. I'm old school (as in classically trained). I use staffpad to work out the nittygrittys of composition and also use it to sketch out ideas, like a notebook. I use custom size orchestral manuscript (yes, paper) to compose on. Sibelius comes after that, when a piece is written, so the two never meet in the digital world...it's a way of working that suits me and my musical upbringing.


----------



## mikeh-375

gussunkri said:


> Because you enjoy wearing one while composing?



LOL...more like a subliminal message to the missus in case she ever reads this. Besides I look terrible in pink.


----------



## Cinesamples

Breaking silence to show this. Here is a screengrab of a piece composed by 16-year-old Ethan Kennedy (with a bit of assistance from his composer dad) using StaffPad. The playback is 100% Cinesamples. We will start to see a lot of demos like this coming shortly. Signing off here for now... - MP


----------



## gyprock

Elephant said:


> A few points of interest - for me this is an alternative to the Sibelius (or Dorico) / NP combination.


Be careful with this assessment. Sibelius/Dorico with Noteperformer are very powerful editing tools. Thus far, I believe, most of the larger StaffPad demo pieces were done in a full fledged notation program then input via MusicXML and edited with the expression tool in StaffPad. The latter is a great tool and the results are impressive.

However, I’ve come across a few basic editing tasks that just can’t be done e.g. draw two half note C triads in a bar. How do I change them to four quarter note triads? How can I select the middle note of each triad to delete it or copy it to another voice or instrument? Selection via the lasso tool is horrible-I hate it.

The other thing that bugs me is the chevron in the top left menu. For instance, undo is only in one of the menus. Likewise with the lasso tool. These commands should be on screen all the time otherwise you are constantly having to toggle the chevron.

As a sketching tool for ideas or as a rendering playback device, StaffPad is great but to use it without Sibelius, Finale or Dorico for editing would be very difficult simply because editing and crafting is a huge part of the compositional process.

If a new note selection tool instead of the lasso tool we’re made available along with the ability to change one symbol or note for another after it has been drawn would really improve StaffPad.

I’d like to hear how others are getting along with basic editing tasks rather than note recognition issues that often gets the bulk of discussion when it comes to hand recognition software.


----------



## dcoscina

CineSamples said:


> Breaking silence to show this. Here is a screengrab of a piece composed by 16-year-old Ethan Kennedy (with a bit of assistance from his composer dad) using StaffPad. The playback is 100% Cinesamples. We will start to see a lot of demos like this coming shortly. Signing off here for now... - MP



Thanks for sharing Mike. Nice work (even if it recalls Prokofiev’s Romanza from Lt Kije). What’s especially encouraging about this technology is the hope that it motivates more people to compose for orchestra using a methodology that’s been around for literally hundreds of years. More importantly, there’s much more focus on phrasing, space, texture, and shape in the music, something that DAWs don’t necessarily promote.


----------



## jonathanparham

JUST DOWNLOADED MY WINDOWS STAFFPAD UPGRADE!. Looks good. All my previous works have uploaded. I was surprised at the varieties that spitfire had. Cinesamples looked really good too. Berlin series. Wow! As someone mentioned before, it'd be nice if there was a bundle. Buy an SF Chamber strings and get a little discount for the Staffpad addition.


----------



## jeremiahpena

Just got the update and have been playing around with it for a few hours. I haven't purchased any libraries, so I can't comment on that. The handwriting recognition seems on the average better than before, with fewer errors. But when there are errors, it doesn't tell you what they are. The whole bar is marked red and you have to erase things one by one until you figure out what the problem was. In the older version, you could tell Staffpad what the unrecognized marks were. I hope that feature comes back. There's also some things that are needlessly difficult, like putting staccato dots on a passage of 16th notes. Some of the dots don't register, some get turned into notes, and some get turned into staccatos.

The biggest problem is how ridiculously unstable it is for me (on a Surface Pro 3). Constant freezing and crashes, sometimes multiple times in a single minute. Luckily it seems to autosave very frequently and I rarely lose more than a bar of progress, but it's quite frustrating.


----------



## prodigalson

jeremiahpena said:


> Constant freezing and crashes, sometimes multiple times in a single minute.



had similar issues when using on a Surface Pro 3.

staffpad hasn’t crashed once since using it on iPad


----------



## dcoscina

prodigalson said:


> had similar issues when using on a Surface Pro 3.
> 
> staffpad hasn’t crashed once since using it on iPad


I’m wondering if they poured most of their time and resources into the iOS version. Figure there’s a larger market than Surfaces since technically anyone with an iPad gen 6 or up can use this program. N


----------



## Eric G

I guess I am just lucky. I have had no major issues on IPad or PC.

No more than I do with (Dorico/Cubase/Sibelius) or other music production software. Maybe that is why I am so optimistic about StaffPad. Below is HEAVEN for ME. Apologies if the picture isn't clear because of the brightness.





Surface Studio 32" monitor (generation 1) running a full orchestra template on StaffPad. (And no I have no palm issues)


----------



## gyprock

I imported a MusicXML file from Dorico and most of it came through to StaffPad except:

1. Some tuplets were missing but others were ok. Go figure. I had to manually input a "3" in quite a few places.

2. Most dynamic markings came in but many were missing. Go figure once again. Putting in the missing markings whilst going through the Dorico score visually was very time consuming and I didn't complete the task.

3. Tempo markings did not come through nor did "swing" indication text nor did Ritandos nor did Fermato symbol.

4. Pizzicato and arco markings did not come through. In fact, I don't think the standard StaffPad string instruments support pizzicato - at least any text indication that I input was not recognised.

5. Trills did not come through and Dorico chord symbols (these would be proprietary I suppose).

6. I got a bunch of errors about transposition. This probably relates to the Contrabass. The notation came in correctly but I think it sounds 2 octaves lower rather than 1.

It would be interesting to see how accurate a Sibelius MusicXML import would be.


----------



## mikeh-375

Eric G said:


> I guess I am just lucky. I have had no major issues on IPad or PC.
> 
> No more than I do with (Dorico/Cubase/Sibelius) or other music production software. Maybe that is why I am so optimistic about StaffPad. Below is HEAVEN for ME. Apologies if the picture isn't clear because of the brightness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surface Studio 32" monitor (generation 1) running a full orchestra template on StaffPad. (And no I have no palm issues)



I hate you hate you hate you @Eric G , I want one of those.......(just joking)


----------



## thesteelydane

The update fixed the stability issues on the iPad for me (1st gen pro). Handwriting takes some getting used to. I've discovered that the angle between the note head and the stem is important - if it's not clearly delineated, it doesn't know what to make of it. Lifting the pen of between each component of drawing a note also seems to have a huge impact: draw the notehead, lift pen, draw the stem, lift pen, draw the beams/flags if needed.


----------



## did

jeremiahpena said:


> Just got the update and have been playing around with it for a few hours. I haven't purchased any libraries, so I can't comment on that. The handwriting recognition seems on the average better than before, with fewer errors. But when there are errors, it doesn't tell you what they are. The whole bar is marked red and you have to erase things one by one until you figure out what the problem was. In the older version, you could tell Staffpad what the unrecognized marks were. I hope that feature comes back. There's also some things that are needlessly difficult, like putting staccato dots on a passage of 16th notes. Some of the dots don't register, some get turned into notes, and some get turned into staccatos.
> 
> The biggest problem is how ridiculously unstable it is for me (on a Surface Pro 3). Constant freezing and crashes, sometimes multiple times in a single minute. Luckily it seems to autosave very frequently and I rarely lose more than a bar of progress, but it's quite frustrating.


Same here with Surface Pro 4...


----------



## Philip Vasta

I have a Surface Pro 4, and I'm also having stability issues. I hope they get that sorted out sooner than later. To be honest though, I wouldn't be surprised if Surface takes a bit of a back seat to iPad development. It would certainly be practical, because the iPad market is much, much bigger than that of Surface, obviously. But I do hope that the additional revenue they'll get will help them to have a healthy company.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

I bought Staffpad in 2017 and didn't receive any update... Any other users in that case ? 
@leogardini did you finally get yours ?


----------



## jonathanparham

whitewasteland said:


> I bought Staffpad in 2017 and didn't receive any update... Any other users in that case ?
> @leogardini did you finally get yours ?


I didn't either. I just went to the Microsoft store.


----------



## Leandro Gardini

whitewasteland said:


> I bought Staffpad in 2017 and didn't receive any update... Any other users in that case ?
> @leogardini did you finally get yours ?


Not so far. Very frustrating!


----------



## Eric G

leogardini said:


> Not so far. Very frustrating!



Hey Leo, three of my PCs updated to the new StaffPad except one. It was on a version of Windows 10 Pro 1800 or so (about a year old). I would have never guessed this but I wanted to know what the difference in the machines.

I upgraded to the latest version Windows 10 Pro 1909 (the latest version for all of them) and it downloaded immediately after Windows updated.

So it may be your Windows 10 version. Make sure you are up to date and that might fix it.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Unfortunately, I’ve had to request (and was granted) a refund from Apple for this. The handwriting recognition is quite poor and being the only input option, renders the app unusable. I timed myself to notate a piece with StaffPad vs. Dorico (which I just bought and am still learning), and Dorico was much faster and more efficient. If the handwriting recognition for StaffPad had been top tier, it would’ve been a much closer race.


----------



## tokatila

Eric G said:


> Hey Leo, three of my PCs updated to the new StaffPad except one. It was on a version of Windows 10 Pro 1800 or so (about a year old). I would have never guessed this but I wanted to know what the difference in the machines.
> 
> I upgraded to the latest version Windows 10 Pro 1909 (the latest version for all of them) and it downloaded immediately after Windows updated.
> 
> So it may be your Windows 10 version. Make sure you are up to date and that might fix it.



Same thing here, the update came available after updating the Windows.


----------



## prodigalson

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Unfortunately, I’ve had to request (and was granted) a refund from Apple for this. The handwriting recognition is quite poor and being the only input option, renders the app unusable. I timed myself to notate a piece with StaffPad vs. Dorico (which I just bought and am still learning), and Dorico was much faster and more efficient. If the handwriting recognition for StaffPad had been top tier, it would’ve been a much closer race.



Out of curiosity, did you take any time to watch the StaffPad videos on tips on how to write for best success or did you just try to start writing and arrive at your conclusion?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

prodigalson said:


> Out of curiosity, did you take any time to watch the StaffPad videos on tips on how to write for best success or did you just try to start writing and arrive at your conclusion?



I watched all the videos multiple times and read the entire manual. I spent quite a few hours with the app before I had to sadly give up. Love the concept so hope they improve!


----------



## soothingpanic

I’m considering asking for refund as well... handwriting recognition is quite frustrating as is the UI in many ways - the app just doesn’t seem ready for prime time. (iOS)


----------



## emilio_n

I hope they can fix the problems on iPad. I love the concept too and even I think is expensive compared with other solutions I will buy in the future if works Ok.


----------



## Eric G

Hmmm...I just finished writing a 4 bar sketch and then fully orchestrated it in StaffPad on on my Surface Studio. Then I went to the IPad and did the exact same thing with a new piece. No it was not 100% percent (about 85-89%) with problems mainly with recognizing dynamics so I switched to hold-tapping and typing the dynamic. But none of the recognition problems made me want to give up. Maybe if I was a keyboard or MIDI jockey I would be less patient, but I am not and this is the workflow I am committed to so I am going to push through it. For me, compared to MIDI twiddling and two fingering the keyboard (I am exaggerating), this is a dream.

FYI, on the PC there is a problem with the OT and Spitfire Libraries after purchase and download. All of the CineSamples Libraries work fine. They are currently working on the issue for PC. So don't want to see folks get upset over that. So I suggest everyone wait until everything is perfect.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

The App Store reviews indicate this is not an isolated issue sadly, but glad it is working for you @Eric G ! The potential is certainly there. I just couldn't spent $90 on a beta test / software that didn't work for me more than half the time. They also need to add more view options (continuous staff can get cumbersome once you've gone past 10-12 bars). Not to mention the top toolbar is rather inefficient in terms of undo / redo placement. Also, I prefer Notion's approach to translating the handwriting in real time vs. tapping out of the bar - if StaffPad highlighted exactly what it didn't recognize, that would be ok, but it just highlights the entire bar, so there is no indication on what you need to fix. I will say that Notion's handwriting recognition is definitely much better for me so there is certainly room for StaffPad to improve.


----------



## Eric G

ALittleNightMusic said:


> The App Store reviews indicate this is not an isolated issue sadly, but glad it is working for you @Eric G ! The potential is certainly there. I just couldn't spent $90 on a beta test / software that didn't work for me more than half the time. They also need to add more view options (continuous staff can get cumbersome once you've gone past 10-12 bars). Not to mention the top toolbar is rather inefficient in terms of undo / redo placement. Also, I prefer Notion's approach to translating the handwriting in real time vs. tapping out of the bar - if StaffPad highlighted exactly what it didn't recognize, that would be ok, but it just highlights the entire bar, so there is no indication on what you need to fix. I will say that Notion's handwriting recognition is definitely much better for me so there is certainly room for StaffPad to improve.


Completely understand. Hopefully they can meet your expectations in the near future. Sounds like Notion is the tool for you. I tried Notion and it was just not doing it for me (and they haven't updated it in ages). In fact, I have tried them all (i.e. Handwriting notation to complete composition workflows)


----------



## emasters

ALittleNightMusic said:


> The App Store reviews indicate this is not an isolated issue sadly, but glad it is working for you @Eric G ! The potential is certainly there. I just couldn't spent $90 on a beta test / software that didn't work for me more than half the time. They also need to add more view options (continuous staff can get cumbersome once you've gone past 10-12 bars). Not to mention the top toolbar is rather inefficient in terms of undo / redo placement. Also, I prefer Notion's approach to translating the handwriting in real time vs. tapping out of the bar - if StaffPad highlighted exactly what it didn't recognize, that would be ok, but it just highlights the entire bar, so there is no indication on what you need to fix. I will say that Notion's handwriting recognition is definitely much better for me so there is certainly room for StaffPad to improve.



I had the same initial experience where the handwriting recognition was really challenging. Watching the videos, working with it, reading the on-line docs, and messaging with David at StaffPad -- it's now coming together and is working fine. It is particular about the way you enter notes and symbols. I would urge patience and practice for those also struggling. It really is a good app, but takes time to become proficient (at least, that's my experience).


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

emasters said:


> I had the same initial experience where the handwriting recognition was really challenging. Watching the videos, working with it, reading the on-line docs, and messaging with David at StaffPad -- it's now coming together and is working fine. It is particular about the way you enter notes and symbols. I would urge patience and practice for those also struggling. It really is a good app, but takes time to become proficient (at least, that's my experience).



I hope they can put out some more documentation / videos then with tips and tricks as I've done what you've done to no avail. I do think regardless of their documentation and practice by customers, they should improve their recognition capabilities. I am looking forward to trying the app again in 3-6 months hopefully.


----------



## agarner32

gyprock said:


> However, I’ve come across a few basic editing tasks that just can’t be done e.g. draw two half note C triads in a bar. How do I change them to four quarter note triads? How can I select the middle note of each triad to delete it or copy it to another voice or instrument? Selection via the lasso tool is horrible-I hate it.


I just tried drawing two half note C triads in one bar and it worked easily for me. I don't think you can change them to four quarter notes without re-drawing, but it's pretty fast for me to erase and re-draw. It's easy to delete a middle note in a chord or any other note for that matter. Just press on the note a bit harder and it will erase. It took me a few tries to get the feel for how much pressure. The lasso tool also took some practice, but I can make it work at least 90% of the time. It definitely could be better.



gyprock said:


> The other thing that bugs me is the chevron in the top left menu. For instance, undo is only in one of the menus. Likewise with the lasso tool. These commands should be on screen all the time otherwise you are constantly having to toggle the chevron.


I agree with this, but I've just gotten use to quickly tapping the chevron with my left finger. It would be nice to have them always available since they are used so often, but for me it's a minor inconvenience.


----------



## gyprock

agarner32 said:


> I just tried drawing two half note C triads in one bar and it worked easily for me. I don't think you can change them to four quarter notes without re-drawing, but it's pretty fast for me to erase and re-draw. It's easy to delete a middle note in a chord or any other note for that matter. Just press on the note a bit harder and it will erase. It took me a few tries to get the feel for how much pressure. The lasso tool also took some practice, but I can make it work at least 90% of the time. It definitely could be better.
> 
> 
> I agree with this, but I've just gotten use to quickly tapping the chevron with my left finger. It would be nice to have them always available since they are used so often, but for me it's a minor inconvenience.


I had no problem drawing the 2 half note chords. The issue that you also identified is that you had to redraw if you want to change them. This is ok for a simple rhythm but once it goes over the bar and you want to test multiple versions, it then becomes too slow. As for deleting the middle note, yes, this is easy but I wanted to copy and paste this note into another track. This basic operation is not possible. This is because you can’t lasso a note within a chord to select it.


----------



## agarner32

gyprock said:


> I had no problem drawing the 2 half note chords.


Sorry I misread your post. I see what you mean now. I do agree that the lasso tool is not the greatest and takes some practice. The other thing I hate about the lasso tool is that it doesn't stay active so if it doesn't select right away you have to keep selecting it again. That's a major pain.

So I just got through entering in two bars of a Bach Chorale and it took me at least 5 minutes which is way too slow. There were two 1/8 notes in the 4th voice I couldn't get in for about 3 minutes. I finally got them in.

At this point I'd have to agree with many others that it's just not fast enough to replace a traditional notation program. My MacBookPro isn't really that much bigger than my iPadPro so I don't think this will replace Dorico quite yet.


----------



## waveheavy

Got an email from Matt at StaffPad couple of hours ago. He said they have fixed the OT and Spitfire problem on the Windows app in-house, and will have the new 3.0.4 update out in 12 to 24 hours.


----------



## emasters

gyprock said:


> The other thing that bugs me is the chevron in the top left menu. For instance, undo is only in one of the menus. Likewise with the lasso tool. These commands should be on screen all the time otherwise you are constantly having to toggle the chevron.



I like the way many drawing apps implement Undo on the iPad... two fingers down is Undo, three fingers down is Redo. So much easier and really fast, versus dealing with a menu and selecting commands.


----------



## Eric G

waveheavy said:


> Got an email from Matt at StaffPad couple of hours ago. He said they have fixed the OT and Spitfire problem on the Windows app in-house, and will have the new 3.0.4 update out in 12 to 24 hours.


Yep. Heard got the same info from my support ticket.


----------



## agarner32

This may not be of interest to many, but I gave multiple voices a shot. I head a college music theory program and this is a little 4-part writing assignment they had in my beginning class. I didn't write in the figured bass but it was in the workbook. I think it works fairly well. I've done this over a projector using my iPad and One Note which is probably faster at this point. Still, it's decent.

For me so far, drawing notes with ledger lines is hit and miss so I just draw a note in the staff and move it up or down. At the end I had trouble inserting a double bar, but I figured it out.



http://agarnermusic.com/staffpad.MP4


----------



## dcoscina

emasters said:


> I had the same initial experience where the handwriting recognition was really challenging. Watching the videos, working with it, reading the on-line docs, and messaging with David at StaffPad -- it's now coming together and is working fine. It is particular about the way you enter notes and symbols. I would urge patience and practice for those also struggling. It really is a good app, but takes time to become proficient (at least, that's my experience).


I wonder if lefties would have more issues because of the direction we draw/write in compared to righties


----------



## giwro

Lots of “meh” reviews on the iOS App Store - one wonders if it is really that bad, or if there is a bit of lack of patience.

I tried it years ago, and found it mostly frustrating (I could enter notes much faster in Finale). Granted, I was using a Surface 3, when they recommended a Surface Pro... so, I shouldn’t criticize folks for lack of patience, I guess... lol

It will be interesting to see if there are updates that fix some of the gripes - several people referred to it as a $90 beta test (ouch).

I’m tempted to do like I did with Dorico and buy it to support the hard work of the developers and (future) functionality... there is something to be said for that!


----------



## Michael Antrum

I got up this morning, and again just played that video playing Elgar's Nimrod, and I simply cannot get past it. It's simply stunning - and 'm finding it almost too good to be true.

I'm going to let the dust settle for a week or two, as there seems to be a couple of issues, but I'm very tempted.

Just as coincidence, did anyyone else get and survey request from Steinberg yesterday, as if you completed it you would find that it was all about Dorico & Cubase, how you work with them and integrating them.....


----------



## DANIELE

I would like to buy a Surface for Staff Pad and other minor business, now that is updated I'm asking myself if the experience is as good on other windows devices as on the Surface. On the site I could still read _We recommend the iPad Pro 12.9" or Microsoft Surface Pro 7 for StaffPad_.

Since I'm an hobbyst I was asking myself if a Chuwi could be good aswell for example.


----------



## Guitarist8

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I watched all the videos multiple times and read the entire manual. I spent quite a few hours with the app before I had to sadly give up. Love the concept so hope they improve!


I have found the same thing. I spent a great deal of time trying to make it work but it is just too frustrating. Leger lines don't work, some bars simply will not turn into type. It just doesn't do a pro job at the moment.


----------



## Guitarist8

emilio_n said:


> I hope they can fix the problems on iPad. I love the concept too and even I think is expensive compared with other solutions I will buy in the future if works Ok.


Unfortunately it doesn't at the moment at all.


----------



## Guitarist8

Eric G said:


> Hmmm...I just finished writing a 4 bar sketch and then fully orchestrated it in StaffPad on on my Surface Studio. Then I went to the IPad and did the exact same thing with a new piece. No it was not 100% percent (about 85-89%) with problems mainly with recognizing dynamics so I switched to hold-tapping and typing the dynamic. But none of the recognition problems made me want to give up. Maybe if I was a keyboard or MIDI jockey I would be less patient, but I am not and this is the workflow I am committed to so I am going to push through it. For me, compared to MIDI twiddling and two fingering the keyboard (I am exaggerating), this is a dream.
> 
> FYI, on the PC there is a problem with the OT and Spitfire Libraries after purchase and download. All of the CineSamples Libraries work fine. They are currently working on the issue for PC. So don't want to see folks get upset over that. So I suggest everyone wait until everything is perfect.


Did you get leger lines to work easily on the iPad? I simply cannot get them - well about 1 in 30 works.


----------



## agarner32

Guitarist8 said:


> Did you get leger lines to work easily on the iPad? I simply cannot get them - well about 1 in 30 works.


I have had problems with ledger lines. It's hit and miss for me. It's pretty quick to draw a note in the staff and drag it up or down to the correct note.


----------



## Eric G

giwro said:


> Lots of “meh” reviews on the iOS App Store - one wonders if it is really that bad, or if there is a bit of lack of patience.
> 
> I tried it years ago, and found it mostly frustrating (I could enter notes much faster in Finale). Granted, I was using a Surface 3, when they recommended a Surface Pro... so, I shouldn’t criticize folks for lack of patience, I guess... lol
> 
> It will be interesting to see if there are updates that fix some of the gripes - several people referred to it as a $90 beta test (ouch).
> 
> I’m tempted to do like I did with Dorico and buy it to support the hard work of the developers and (future) functionality... there is something to be said for that!



My sentiments exactly. Technology adoption is like this. I am an early adopter, so I am going to be patient and supportive because I believe in the possibilities. Its not for everyone. 

But I can tell you after doing this several times with other technologies, it endears you to the publisher. And guess what, you can influence the development of the product more now than later, because of your support and passion to improve the project.


----------



## Eric G

DANIELE said:


> I would like to buy a Surface for Staff Pad and other minor business, now that is updated I'm asking myself if the experience is as good on other windows devices as on the Surface. On the site I could still read _We recommend the iPad Pro 12.9" or Microsoft Surface Pro 7 for StaffPad_.
> 
> Since I'm an hobbyst I was asking myself if a Chuwi could be good aswell for example.


Just wait. Seriously.


----------



## lucor

Eric G said:


> My sentiments exactly. Technology adoption is like this. I am an early adopter, so I am going to be patient and supportive because I believe in the possibilities. Its not for everyone.
> 
> But I can tell you after doing this several times with other technologies, it endears you to the publisher. And guess what, you can influence the development of the product more now than later, because of your support and passion to improve the project.



Normally I'd be with you, but my problem is that this isn't really early adoption. The product exists since almost 5 years now, and the handwriting recognition is still as bad as I remember it from then (I bought it pretty much on release for my Surface).
I really want to like and support this further, but for now I refunded my iOS version of the app.
I might dabble with my Windows version and a graphics tablet in the future to look if it has improved, and if it does improve I'll be happy to repurchase it for my iPad.


----------



## giwro

lucor said:


> Normally I'd be with you, but my problem is that this isn't really early adoption. The product exists since almost 5 years now, and the handwriting recognition is still as bad as I remember it from then (I bought it pretty much on release for my Surface).
> I really want to like and support this further, but for now I refunded my iOS version of the app.
> I might dabble with my Windows version and a graphics tablet in the future to look if it has improved, and if it does improve I'll be happy to repurchase it for my iPad.



And, normally I’d agree with you, but the one factor influencing me otherwise is that this is not simply an update, but in reading the StaffPad blog and release notes, we see that it was a complete code rewrite from the ground up...

In that case, I’m happy to cut them some slack - certainly they should have learned something from the first iteration, but completely re-doing the code shows (at least to me) a commitment to getting it right.


----------



## Eric G

lucor said:


> Normally I'd be with you, but my problem is that this isn't really early adoption. The product exists since almost 5 years now, and the handwriting recognition is still as bad as I remember it from then (I bought it pretty much on release for my Surface).
> I really want to like and support this further, but for now I refunded my iOS version of the app.
> I might dabble with my Windows version and a graphics tablet in the future to look if it has improved, and if it does improve I'll be happy to repurchase it for my iPad.



Completely Understand. Every person has to make the best choice for them. 

I would agree with your early adoption perspective but after talking directly to the creators, the code base was completely re-written to make it work on the iOS AND Windows pencil/pen technology. Fortunately they didn't change the branding and charge everyone on Windows for the upgrade that essentially is a new product.


----------



## Progfather

Just want to chime in here:

I am extremely optimistic for the future of Staffpad, especially after the update. The quality of the live playback using the new upgradeable sample libraries is astonishing. But there are a few things that upset me so far after using this for the past few days:

-It crashes very often (Surface Pro 7, i7 256gb model, latest update for Windows 10). I have not upgraded from the default Staffpad samples so everything is as it came. I notice when I write 'notes' or remarks to myself on the score, this is where most of the crashing happens, although I've noticed it quite a bit when just inputting a musical note, restarting the program right after. I experience crashes every 5-10 minutes. It makes me wonder if the company has left the Surface devices in the dark and favoring iPad this time around - just my assumption though.

-I was working out examples from a music textbook and the Score I was writing my examples on was literally deleted and vanished immediately after a crash. This scares me, because what if I were to come close to finishing a piece of music that I've spent days/weeks on, and come to find out it is all gone within seconds. Because of this encounter I cannot fully trust the app at this time, and will definitely be creating backups after each session if I use this as a primary composition tool.
(Edit: Just noticed in my Scores folder there was indeed a .backup file created for this score, but when loading Staffpad the score was removed. I just copied the backup, and removed the .backup extension and it loaded just fine, but still, this is a bit shady for a first encounter)

-Handwriting has definitely improved from the previous versions, but still far from perfect. Adding accidentals to a note is somewhat of a pain at times, and I wish that the toolbar was a bit more intuitive in this regard. For example, why can't I select a note, and once selected, choose sharp, flat, or natural? Same with note length. In my opinion, until the handwriting feature is perfected, note values and pitch should be options on the toolbar when individual notes are selected. Right now, I can change the staff direction by selecting a note - which is MUCH welcomed as the lack of this feature irritated me in the previous version, but if I can change the staff direction, it would be nice to have the other options available as well. (Just my opinion to speed up the workflow)

I don't mean to sound ungrateful as I am so thankful that Staffpad exists. I'm thankful that there are developers out there who truly care for the composer or student that wishes to notate music the old fashioned way - and now with a beautiful playback engine on par with DAW's with premium sample libraries! This was a huge update and I know it takes time, but I hope that they are able to introduce new patches and updates along the way to make the experience that much more fluid and seamless.


----------



## Leandro Gardini

I don't get this recognition problem many are complaining about.
I've been using Staffpad for years and even though it may be frustrating sometimes, it works on most occasions.
For those who want to learn it my advice is to write figure shapes like adult writing. Instead of balls write slashes in the notehead.


----------



## DANIELE

Eric G said:


> Just wait. Seriously.



Could you explain what do you mean? Thank you.


----------



## Eric G

DANIELE said:


> Could you explain what do you mean? Thank you.



As a hobbyist I can imagine your budget is tight and you need things to work right now. I would wait a month or two until it settles down or a new major release comes out. A few bugs are still being worked out and you may not have the patience to wait. That's all.


----------



## Eric G

Release 3.0.4.0 just came out for the PC and fixed the OT Berlin Strings and Spitfire Strings issues I was having with playback.

Unfortunately Cinesamples Harps is having a download issue after purchase.


----------



## DANIELE

Eric G said:


> As a hobbyist I can imagine your budget is tight and you need things to work right now. I would wait a month or two until it settles down or a new major release comes out. A few bugs are still being worked out and you may not have the patience to wait. That's all.



Ah ok, I didn't understand if you referred to tablets or the app.

Well I bought the app a long time ago so I already have it. I used it on the PC and liked it but the lack of shortcut for PC use and so the lack of some features only usable on surface devices slowed me a bit on using it.

Now I hope this problems are solved (I will try once I can) and I could think of other devices to work on it.


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

Eric G said:


> Unfortunately Cinesamples Harps is having a download issue after purchase.


I'm still unable to download OT strings and brass, unfortunately. Hopefully a fix is on the way.


----------



## jazzy57

has anyone tried creating a simple leadsheet with chord symbols and melody using this? that would be the key feature I'm looking for as a jazz player....any feedback?


----------



## curtisschweitzer

I can certainly understand why someone would be hesitant to buy a 12.9 inch iPad Pro or one of the Surfaces, plus the added cost (on the iPad at least) of the pencil, plus the app itself, plus several $99 libraries just to try this out. It is a hefty cost, and it just keeps adding up as you go.

But if you happen to have the right hardware already, this is astonishingly good. I get why some people are having issues with the handwriting recognition— Notion’s is definitely superior— but I have never heard a score-based playback that is quite as fluid and easy to achieve as this. I spent a couple of hours _on an airplane_ writing a little string piece with the Berlin libraries, and I was shocked at how nice it sounded— and best of all, I had a relatively clean score that was ready for MXML export to Dorico if I wanted something that was nicely engraved. (As opposed to the usual MIDI horror show exporting from my DAW). Combine the fact that I was able to do all of this without a laptop and a tiny MIDI controller squeezed on my lap, but rather just with a digital pencil and paper, and I am totally, utterly smitten.

As far as the wonky handwriting recognition— I think it is just a matter of learning how the program expects you to write things. If you sit down and just try to hand write music how you always have, it will seem awful, but if you take the time to learn how it expects, say, a half note or quarter rest to look, you can achieve a pretty fluid workflow. It obviously isn’t perfect— I would like to see articulation recognition improved dramatically— but seeing as this program isn’t necessarily designed to produce a nicely-engraved score, but rather as a compositional tool with which to conceive a piece of music— it definitely achieves “good enough” on that front. Having the option to use excellent samples (and to have them integrated so beautifully into the playback engine) seems to me as— if not more— important to this program being useful for writing music.

I'll say it again: I can certainly understand why someone would hesitate to buy this program— it certainly is the most expensive thing I’ve ever purchased for an iOS device, especially considering the libraries that I grabbed with it— but I am honestly blown away at how useful it is already. Especially if they can improve it at a quick clip, this is going to be a game-changer for me.


----------



## foxby

I can definitely say that Satffpad is not for everybody, but as curtisschweitzer said, is just getting used to it and give to the app what expects from you..it takes a while. For me, this is an amazing application, which is really letting you focus only on your musical thinking and ideas. I use Staffpad on Ipad pro and is pretty good!


----------



## emasters

agarner32 said:


> I have had problems with ledger lines. It's hit and miss for me. It's pretty quick to draw a note in the staff and drag it up or down to the correct note.



Was the same for me -- at first, I couldn't draw in notes above or below the staff. After a bit of time and practice, I can now consistently get it to work. I think the recognition engine is looking for specific types of strokes in a specific order. I really don't know what I did in terms of adjusting to get it to draw ledger lines. But now it works. Was very frustrating at first.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

emasters said:


> Was the same for me -- at first, I couldn't draw in notes above or below the staff. After a bit of time and practice, I can now consistently get it to work. I think the recognition engine is looking for specific types of strokes in a specific order. I really don't know what I did in terms of adjusting to get it to draw ledger lines. But now it works. Was very frustrating at first.



Generally I've found that if I am struggling with a specific type of marking, it is always because I am choosing to draw it in a way that StaffPad does not expect. For example, I could absolutely not get half notes to draw correctly the first time I used it until I realized that I allow my pen stroke to curl into the note slightly at the end of drawing the circular open notehead, which was for whatever reason giving StaffPad trouble. I stopped doing this and now they are easy.

It can be frustrating to try to figure out what is giving their handwriting recognition engine trouble, but once you figure out what it wants you to do, it becomes very consistent. It is quite helpful to watch others use the program to figure out the optimal way of drawing each kind of note or marking, and to remember that it is very sensitive to any deviation from markings that involve straight lines-- even a small bend or curve (say, when you pick the pencil off the screen) can give it trouble. I get that this probably would drive some people crazy, but I've probably spent 5-7 hours with it at this point, and it now feels pretty fluid and natural to use.

Having said that, Notion's handwriting recognition is, as I mentioned above, much better.


----------



## prodigalson

Guitarist8 said:


> Did you get leger lines to work easily on the iPad? I simply cannot get them - well about 1 in 30 works.



try drawing the note head first before the ledger line.

this works for me virtually 100% of the time though I will admit it’s bonkers. Who writes the note head without having the leger line to reference??


----------



## Eric G

Richard Wilkinson said:


> I'm still unable to download OT strings and brass, unfortunately. Hopefully a fix is on the way.


On PC make sure you are on 3.0.4.0 it just came out today but may take an additional 24hrs to update for everyone.


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

Eric G said:


> On PC make sure you are on 3.0.4.0 it just came out today but may take an additional 24hrs to update for everyone.


ipad pro here - but I've let them know, so hopefully the update will be out soon


----------



## Eric G

Maybe you have seen this. MusicXML input from Sibelius. CineSamples Libraries+OT Strings. On an IPad, we live in inspiring times.


----------



## foxby

It's almost unbelievable , what these samples can do within Staffpad !


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Very interested in this, but, pre-purchase: I have to do a lot of midi timing offset with my libraries in Logic. How is this addressed (or not, I suspect) in Staffpad?


----------



## foxby

I think this problem should not exist , as long as the developers reworked these libraries in-house, specifically to work with their notation program ; otherwise it would be a nightmare and no sens at all!


----------



## giwro

So, I put my money where my mouth is, and bought the iOS version last night.

My first impressions are that it works pretty much the same as it did in windoze, but better. I’m chalking that up to the fact that my iPad is newer and faster than the old Surface 3...

It still wants you to input the notes the way it wants them, so there is a bit of a learning curve. But, I like it so far.

One caveat for those having issues in iOS - did you swipe out of the other 20 apps you have open...?

More to come - I’ve yet to add in sample libs, so there’s that to test yet.


----------



## Progfather

giwro said:


> So, I put my money where my mouth is, and bought the iOS version last night.
> 
> My first impressions are that it works pretty much the same as it did in windoze, but better. I’m chalking that up to the fact that my iPad is newer and faster than the old Surface 3...
> 
> It still wants you to input the notes the way it wants them, so there is a bit of a learning curve. But, I like it so far.
> 
> One caveat for those having issues in iOS - did you swipe out of the other 20 apps you have open...?
> 
> More to come - I’ve yet to add in sample libs, so there’s that to test yet.




Man reading things like this is making me sort of regret purchasing my Surface Pro 7. I use it for my job also (Software Engineer), but the writing experience and the added stability the iPad appears to have with Staffpad seems like it would have been worth it. Plus my SP7 battery is almost dead after 4 hours, even after the low battery setting, low brightness etc... Oh well, can't win them all


----------



## waveheavy

What's the secret to drawing dynamic marks under the staff in Surface Pro?


----------



## OleJoergensen

I bought Staffpad yesterday and Berlin Strings today.
As they suggest, it does require some practice to use........
I just had some “Mahlerish” fun..... It made me laugh with joy, that it is possible to play with such beautiful String sound!
edit: I added a version with Staffpad core String.
(The original wav file sounds better....)


----------



## Michael Antrum

OleJoergensen said:


> I bought Staffpad yesterday and Berlin Strings today.
> As they suggest, it does require some practice to use........
> I just had some fun..... It made me laugh with joy, that it is possible to play with such beautiful String sound!




Just bloody stop it will you.....can't you hear my wallet weeping quietly in the corner......


----------



## Progfather

OleJoergensen said:


> I bought Staffpad yesterday and Berlin Strings today.
> As they suggest, it does require some practice to use........
> I just had some fun..... It made me laugh with joy, that it is possible to play with such beautiful String sound!




Wow, even that portamento slur... Such an incredible amount of detail in these libraries.


----------



## Eric G

OleJoergensen said:


> I bought Staffpad yesterday and Berlin Strings today.
> As they suggest, it does require some practice to use........
> I just had some “Mahlerish” fun..... It made me laugh with joy, that it is possible to play with such beautiful String sound!
> (The original wav file sounds better....)




Thanks for uploading Ole. 

I have Berlin Strings Also and love them. Let's do an comparison. Spitfire String Test Slowly. No changes to Ole's composition:



Up next CineStrings


----------



## Eric G

Here is CineStrings String Test Slowly. Again, didn't change the notes only the samples. I don't want to lead you but I think you will notice some differences.


----------



## foxby

waveheavy said:


> What's the secret to drawing dynamic marks under the staff in Surface Pro?


Try to write the letters separately , not together.. at least this is how Staffpad registers my dynamics ..


----------



## ChrisHarrison

The spitfire strings sound best to me in the examples above.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Yes - we really need some reviews on the different libraries. This is important work you are doing chaps and chapesses.....

I mean you can’t even see the pricing of the libraries until you have got the actual app......

We need good intel on which to base a decision.

Can anyone provide a list of all the libraries and their prices please ? (Preferably in GBP)

Ta ever so....

(It‘s a worry that this is basic information that the developer is failing to provide.)


----------



## rsg22

I'm confused about the three _Slowly_ examples posted - the Berlin String test seems to have clearly audible crescendos and decrescendos, though there are no dynamics in the score. I don't hear that in the Spitfire or CineStrings versions. The Spitfire test sounds like it's all at the same dynamic (which I'd expect). Am I missing something?


----------



## Tilt & Flow

rsg22 said:


> I'm confused about the three _Slowly_ examples posted - the Berlin String test seems to have clearly audible crescendos and decrescendos, though there are no dynamics in the score. I don't hear that in the Spitfire or CineStrings versions. The Spitfire test sounds like it's all at the same dynamic (which I'd expect). Am I missing something?


I also assume the first example had dynamics added by Ole? I have the OT strings library and it sounds great!


----------



## Eric G

All Libraries are 76.35 GBP or $99US each on PC and IPad (Yes you have to buy them separately)

The Libraries at this price are: 
Spitfire Strings, Brass, Woodwinds Percussion and Chamber Strings 
OT Strings, Brass, Woodwinds Percussion and Solo Strings 
CineSamples Strings, Brass, Woodwinds Percussion, Choir and Solo Strings 


Pianos, Harps are 53.21GBP or $99US (OT, CineSampes are the only two with those)

I have not seen the prices displaced in GBP so I am using a calculator


----------



## Eric G

rsg22 said:


> I'm confused about the three _Slowly_ examples posted - the Berlin String test seems to have clearly audible crescendos and decrescendos, though there are no dynamics in the score. I don't hear that in the Spitfire or CineStrings versions. The Spitfire test sounds like it's all at the same dynamic (which I'd expect). Am I missing something?



I played them exactly as notated from within StaffPad. No editing of dynamics . StaffPad did the playback. That was the reason I did it to hear how each library is implemented in StaffPad.

What I found was that Berlin Strings were extremely expressive with soft dynamics where Spitfire Strings had the bigger sound and power at higher dynamics. CineStrings has a few leveling issues (I didn't want to say that because I wanted to see if someone else noticed) I have a few more demos coming out in a few more days where I am testing the playback differences.

Its important to know what your library can and can't do.


----------



## Eric G

rsg22 said:


> I'm confused about the three _Slowly_ examples posted - the Berlin String test seems to have clearly audible crescendos and decrescendos, though there are no dynamics in the score. I don't hear that in the Spitfire or CineStrings versions. The Spitfire test sounds like it's all at the same dynamic (which I'd expect). Am I missing something?



I think you are right on the dynamics in the original rendering. Here is my rendering of the exact score Ole published.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

Eric G said:


> All Libraries are 76.35 GBP or $99US each on PC and IPad (Yes you have to buy them separately)
> 
> The Libraries at this price are:
> Spitfire Strings, Brass, Woodwinds Percussion and Chamber Strings
> OT Strings, Brass, Woodwinds Percussion and Solo Strings
> CineSamples Strings, Brass, Woodwinds Percussion, Choir and Solo Strings
> 
> 
> Pianos, Harps are 53.21GBP or $99US (OT, CineSampes are the only two with those)
> 
> I have not seen the prices displaced in GBP so I am using a calculator


the piano/harps are $70, not $99


----------



## Eric G

Tilt & Flow said:


> the piano/harps are $70, not $99


whoops thanks. typing too fast


----------



## Michael Antrum

rsg22 said:


> I'm confused about the three _Slowly_ examples posted - the Berlin String test seems to have clearly audible crescendos and decrescendos, though there are no dynamics in the score. I don't hear that in the Spitfire or CineStrings versions. The Spitfire test sounds like it's all at the same dynamic (which I'd expect). Am I missing something?



You can draw expression curves directly onto that stave of each instrument. It’s in one of the videos. i would think that’s probably what is going on there.

Thanks all for this info- much appreciated.

I have a feeling that the libraries are going to be 99 GBP myself though..... which means £400-500 or so for a full orchestra.....


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

Yes, they're £99. Chunky investment to do that x3 plus £80 for the app. But I suppose that's what a business credit card is for!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Richard Wilkinson said:


> Yes, they're £99. Chunky investment to do that x3 plus £80 for the app. But I suppose that's what a business credit card is for!



What about percussion ? It's 4 x £99. So you are looking at circa £ 500.00 plus. Which is not small beer.

Are the built in samples up to much ? (I expect not.)

But I think I think would get more use out of this than anything else I have as I travel so much.

So the question is OT or Spitfire......


----------



## OleJoergensen

rsg22 said:


> I'm confused about the three _Slowly_ examples posted - the Berlin String test seems to have clearly audible crescendos and decrescendos, though there are no dynamics in the score. I don't hear that in the Spitfire or CineStrings versions. The Spitfire test sounds like it's all at the same dynamic (which I'd expect). Am I missing something?


I have trouble writting expressions, dynamics and I was eager to hear Berlin Strings so I did draw cc expressions.


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

I'm sticking with the stock percussion for now! May get Cineperc eventually but I'm using this more for sketching themes and suites so the Brass/Strings/Woodwinds are more crucial to start with.

I went for Berlin everything, partly as I have all the SF stuff and Cinebrass on my main system and thought it would be nice to change it up.
Good comparison of the strings here from Stu Kennedy though:


----------



## OleJoergensen

Eric G said:


> Thanks for uploading Ole.
> 
> I have Berlin Strings Also and love them. Let's do an comparison. Spitfire String Test Slowly. No changes to Ole's composition:
> 
> 
> 
> Up next CineStrings



Thank you for the examples with Spitfire and CineStrings Eric.
i just uploaded a midi file, I should have done that in the first place.....


----------



## OleJoergensen

Richard Wilkinson said:


> I'm sticking with the stock percussion for now! May get Cineperc eventually but I'm using this more for sketching themes and suites so the Brass/Strings/Woodwinds are more crucial to start with.
> 
> I went for Berlin everything, partly as I have all the SF stuff and Cinebrass on my main system and thought it would be nice to change it up.
> Good comparison of the strings here from Stu Kennedy though:



Great demo, thank you for sharing!


----------



## nilblo

@giwro

"I’m tempted to do like I did with Dorico and buy it to support the hard work of the developers and (future) functionality... there is something to be said for that!"

Exactly my point too...


----------



## dcoscina

Tilt & Flow said:


> the piano/harps are $70, not $99


In Canada the library add ons are all $135 before tax. Ouch. The core library will have to do for me for now. I like the OT strings tho from that comparison so down the line I’ll probably add them and Berlin Brass. SF Chamber Strings also sound nice.

I jumped in this week with Staffpad after initially buying it for a Surface 3 years ago which I didn’t love. The iOS version is better though sometimes I open a file and don’t have access to undo/redo which is weird. I’m left handed but staffpad works well. I’m learning new methods to input notes and I generally use text to input dynamics since I apparently can’t write forte in well enough for it to discern an “f” from a note head.

at this point, I’m using it to sketch concert works. I wouldn’t try it on anything commercial I need to work on that has a deadline. It’s just not that fast yet. But I LOVE the playback. even the core library destroys Notion and I like to hear a decent version of my stuff played back when possible. It’s for this reason that I’m going to stick with this program.

oh I’m using an iPad Air 3’64gb and Apple Pencil 1.

cost of Staffpad in Canada is $135 taxes in.


----------



## Leandro Gardini

foxby said:


> It's almost unbelievable , what these samples can do within Staffpad !


Or what Staffpad can do with these samples.


----------



## dcoscina

leogardini said:


> Or what Staffpad can do with these samples.


The playback is absolutely amazing. even the core library sounds very good


----------



## Michael Antrum

I don’t suppose anyone would like to post something done with the standard library sounds ? I, for one, really appreciate everyone taking the time to help here. This is the kind of thing the developer should have provided on their website.


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

Quickest test ever - there are stock strings in the demo in my earlier post, but here's an 'everything Berlin' and 'everything stock' test. Stock sounds are absolutely fine, and do a good job of illustrating what you've written.

I suspect this would sound better on Berlin after an orchestration cleanup (trumpets should be tenuto, not stacc, chord voicings etc), and I know the Staffpad team are still optimising and refining the integration of these libraries, so they will get better.


----------



## yujade

A couple of other demos of what are marked in his comments as Staffpad exports - 



He also did a comparison of the winds.


----------



## rupect

Been hoping for iPad version for a while! Let's talk about the libraries.

For people using the 3rd party libraries: 
- what are the standouts? 
- any disappointments?
- which libraries have solo instruments, or are those sold separately? 
- are any of the included sounds in the same class? 

Maybe this should be a separate thread, leaving this one for discussion of the app?


----------



## Eric G

rupect said:


> Been hoping for iPad version for a while! Let's talk about the libraries.
> 
> For people using the 3rd party libraries:
> - what are the standouts?
> - any disappointments?
> - which libraries have solo instruments, or are those sold separately?
> - are any of the included sounds in the same class?
> 
> Maybe this should be a separate thread, leaving this one for discussion of the app?



Nah, let's keep it here since the Libs are closely tied to StaffPad App Playback.

I have all the libraries (ALL on PC, OT+CinePERC on IPad). I am putting them through their paces now. I have some demos coming out soon that I have used to see how they work with some well know pieces.

But so far my go to libs so far:
Strings: OT Berlin Strings for softer detailed intimate orchestrations where the strings are the center of the piece (they are that good). Spitfire for BIG Hollywood Sound.

Brass: OT Berlin Brass for detail divsi brass because of the individual instruments (i.e. 4 individual horns etc..), Spitfire Brass for the Hollywood Brass sound with standard section breakouts (a2, a4, a6 etc...) and CineBrass for EPIC over the Top Sound (They have a 12 horn instrument ).

WW: All are good but again OT has the detail with many individual instruments. So take your pick.

Choir: There is only CineSamples VOXOS which is simply outstanding. Haven't put it through its paces but I will soon

Percussion: CinePERC by far is the most impressive collection of Percussion I have ever seen. The sound and the flexibility are simply unmatched. I use it on everything.

All of these libraries are not perfect as I am slowly discovering. There are a few playback issues here and there but nothing I haven't seen before in these libraries I own in Kontakt. So nothing new there. Its software and there will be bugs.

The BIG thing for me is they need to get STEM export. There is no way you can proper MIXING and FINAL MASTER without it. To be very clear, I am into StaffPAD because I HATE the MIDI workflow. I am in because of StaffPAD's ability to read my handwritten notation and then interpret it for playback with a skill FAR better than my MIDI skills (And I am not a keyboardist).


----------



## rupect

Thanks Eric - exactly the kind of info I'm after. Keep the impressions coming - my libraries on Kontakt are all different flavours than the ones in this app, and actual experience writing for them in Staffpad tells me more than just hearing demos.

No stem export seems strange, but I enjoy working with MIDI so making a mock-up after the fact isn't the hugest turnoff for me.

Is there any AUv3 or inter-app audio components in the app that could help get individual instrument audio out happening?


----------



## giwro

Eric G said:


> Nah, let's keep it here since the Libs are closely tied to StaffPad App Playback.
> 
> I have all the libraries (ALL on PC, OT+CinePERC on IPad). I am putting them through their paces now. I have some demos coming out soon that I have used to see how they work with some well know pieces.
> 
> But so far my go to libs so far:
> Strings: OT Berlin Strings for softer detailed intimate orchestrations where the strings are the center of the piece (they are that good). Spitfire for BIG Hollywood Sound.
> 
> Brass: OT Berlin Brass for detail divsi brass because of the individual instruments (i.e. 4 individual horns etc..), Spitfire Brass for the Hollywood Brass sound with standard section breakouts (a2, a4, a6 etc...) and CineBrass for EPIC over the Top Sound (They have a 12 horn instrument ).
> 
> WW: All are good but again OT has the detail with many individual instruments. So take your pick.
> 
> Choir: There is only CineSamples VOXOS which is simply outstanding. Haven't put it through its paces but I will soon
> 
> Percussion: CinePERC by far is the most impressive collection of Percussion I have ever seen. The sound and the flexibility are simply unmatched. I use it on everything.
> 
> All of these libraries are not perfect as I am slowly discovering. There are a few playback issues here and there but nothing I haven't seen before in these libraries I own in Kontakt. So nothing new there. Its software and there will be bugs.
> 
> The BIG thing for me is they need to get STEM export. There is no way you can proper MIXING and FINAL MASTER without it. To be very clear, I am into StaffPAD because I HATE the MIDI workflow. I am in because of StaffPAD's ability to read my handwritten notation and then interpret it for playback with a skill FAR better than my MIDI skills (And I am not a keyboardist).



Thanks for the detailed explanations - this helps a lot. I've already felt my wallet run screaming for cover, and it's nice to know where I should start with the add-on libs - since I write in a more classically-influenced style, it looks like for me Berlin is the way to go to start!


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Does anyone know if the available libraries have the exact same content as their big sibling originals, ie all the same sections, instruments and articulations? I'm thinking ahead to exporting a StaffPad file into Logic and hooking up to the “real” libraries. Similarly, it seems sensible to match the libraries you already own, as composing on Staffpad in, say, Berlin, then exporting and using, say, Spitfire might mean a lot more fine tuning.


----------



## Elephant

gyprock said:


> Be careful with this assessment. Sibelius/Dorico with Noteperformer are very powerful editing tools. Thus far, I believe, most of the larger StaffPad demo pieces were done in a full fledged notation program then input via MusicXML and edited with the expression tool in StaffPad. The latter is a great tool and the results are impressive.



Indeed. I was thinking about just the playback/rendering when I wrote my earlier comment - Sibelius/Dorico with Noteperformer could only be replaced for me on the playback side, not on editing - I currently use Sibelius a lot and would certainly not want to work with anything less capable for the editing side.

The Scoring Notes article I referred to, noted difficulties importing from Staffpad into Sibelius 2020.1, and this is clearly something to flag to Avid's team as it suggests that Sibelius might not be compliant with the MusicXML standard .... it seems the interoperability testing part has not been done to the right level - some heads need to be got together in the developer world to get this type of compliance issue sorted out ......

All the comments about playback on this thread confirm that it is the playback that us the real strong point. Is there anyone who has Sibelius/Dorico and Noteperformer and the new Staffpad who fancies doing a little comparison on playback quality between NP and Staffpad ? .....

....... On a recent thread https://vi-control.net/community/threads/dorico-and-note-performer-tombeau-de-couperin.79579/ Rob used a MusicXML file and imported it into Dorico/NP, then exported audio for each stave and mixed it in Cubase ...and this was the original file, we think ..... https://musescore.com/cherylthegoat/scores/2297946

Doing something like this showing a comparison of a) NP, b) SP without the expression control, and c) SP with the expression control - would be amazing if some kind person who already has all the software wants to volunteer - please could you use a piece of classical music e.g. the one in the link above so it is easier to reference a live performance  This would be a huge contribution !!

I am absolutely with @Eric G that stem export is a must. If that can be done, then an ipad can double both as a sketchpad whilst on the move, and as a rendering engine back at base. Provided (in the mobile sketchpad case) the MusicXML issues can be sorted.


----------



## Eric G

rupect said:


> Thanks Eric - exactly the kind of info I'm after. Keep the impressions coming - my libraries on Kontakt are all different flavours than the ones in this app, and actual experience writing for them in Staffpad tells me more than just hearing demos.
> 
> No stem export seems strange, but I enjoy working with MIDI so making a mock-up after the fact isn't the hugest turnoff for me.
> 
> Is there any AUv3 or inter-app audio components in the app that could help get individual instrument audio out happening?



No AUv3 or plans that I know of. Talked with the owners and interoperability with the old world of DAWs and Notation App (I've tried ALL of them and its too frustrating) is not their vision of the future other than MIDI and MusicXML. Stem export is on the roadmap, (pulled to bring in the release date) but as you can imagine they have a few bugs to work out first.


----------



## dcoscina

I just had to get a new iPad and the app so I’m tapped out for funds now but I plan to go for OT based on various users’ demos. They sound the nicest insofar as legato and expression goes. SF Chamber Strings sound really good too. All in good time


----------



## Eric G

Elephant said:


> Indeed. I was thinking about just the playback/rendering when I wrote my earlier comment - Sibelius/Dorico with Noteperformer could only be replaced for me on the playback side, not on editing - I currently use Sibelius a lot and would certainly not want to work with anything less capable for the editing side.
> 
> The Scoring Notes article I referred to, noted difficulties importing from Staffpad into Sibelius 2020.1, and this is clearly something to flag to Avid's team as it suggests that Sibelius might not be compliant with the MusicXML standard .... it seems the interoperability testing part has not been done to the right level - some heads need to be got together in the developer world to get this type of compliance issue sorted out ......
> 
> All the comments about playback on this thread confirm that it is the playback that us the real strong point. Is there anyone who has Sibelius/Dorico and Noteperformer and the new Staffpad who fancies doing a little comparison on playback quality between NP and Staffpad ? .....
> 
> ....... On a recent thread https://vi-control.net/community/threads/dorico-and-note-performer-tombeau-de-couperin.79579/ Rob used a MusicXML file and imported it into Dorico/NP, then exported audio for each stave and mixed it in Cubase ...and this was the original file, we think ..... https://musescore.com/cherylthegoat/scores/2297946
> 
> Doing something like this showing a comparison of a) NP, b) SP without the expression control, and c) SP with the expression control - would be amazing if some kind person who already has all the software wants to volunteer - please could you use a piece of classical music e.g. the one in the link above so it is easier to reference a live performance  This would be a huge contribution !!
> 
> I am absolutely with @Eric G that stem export is a must. If that can be done, then an ipad can double both as a sketchpad whilst on the move, and as a rendering engine back at base. Provided (in the mobile sketchpad case) the MusicXML issues can be sorted.



Ok, I was all in on the Dorico/Noteperformer combo. But Noteperformer falls down because there are not enough round-robbins. Especially with Noteperformer percussion (IMHO unusable). So I may get to doing that but I already know Noteperformers limitations all to well.

So I built my entire template over Christmas in Dorico with best VSTSs I have (Cinematic Studio Libraries, Spitfire etc...) using expressionmaps and such and it just didn't hold up. Dorico slowed to a crawl. Startup was 3 minutes and I have a serious workstation Threadripper, 64GB memory with 6TB in SSDs. So the fact that I am willing to walk away from all that investment should tell something. (I won't even quote you all the Libraries I own.)


----------



## OleJoergensen

A short video showing tempo map and CC expression in action....


----------



## rupect

I hear you Eric. I too, as I'm sure many of us have, been through lots of different software schemes trying to find a setup that can be super versatile with notation and playback. Had some success with Sibelius rewired into Ableton, then that became less stable in recent years, and slow as the library drives swell. Was enjoying handwriting in Notion (Mac) rewired to Ableton for a bit... But rewire in Notion doesn't seem to always behave, and Notion can be annoying. Took a spin with Dorico recently, and will maybe make the leap when integration with Cubase comes along. I am happy in Logic lately, and happy to be doing mostly everything in one program, but miss the handwriting... What a bounty of options we have, but none tick all the boxes just right for me, but I can tell we're getting closer. 

I hesitate to shell out on all these StaffPad libraries when I have so many great libraries on my computer, especially if they're going to become obsolete if Steinberg keeps at it and takes us to the DAW+notation holy land, or if Apple or PreSonus or AVID surprise us and beat them to it, but it's so tempting... Hmm. The dream would be Apple buys StaffPad and makes it the new Logic remote, how about it? [end ramble] 

What's the state of StaffPad MIDI export? Do dynamics and techniques from the score affect the MIDI data?


----------



## jazzy57

hey guys, can someone do like 4 bars of melody line and chord symbols to show a basic lead sheet and how it looks ?


----------



## Kanter

Many thanks to all for the eloquent comparisons between libraries. For those who own all the solo string- carrying libraries (I understand Spitfire is not among them), how do you rate them, respectively?


----------



## Eric G

rupect said:


> I hear you Eric. I too, as I'm sure many of us have, been through lots of different software schemes trying to find a setup that can be super versatile with notation and playback. Had some success with Sibelius rewired into Ableton, then that became less stable in recent years, and slow as the library drives swell. Was enjoying handwriting in Notion (Mac) rewired to Ableton for a bit... But rewire in Notion doesn't seem to always behave, and Notion can be annoying. Took a spin with Dorico recently, and will maybe make the leap when integration with Cubase comes along. I am happy in Logic lately, and happy to be doing mostly everything in one program, but miss the handwriting... What a bounty of options we have, but none tick all the boxes just right for me, but I can tell we're getting closer.
> 
> I hesitate to shell out on all these StaffPad libraries when I have so many great libraries on my computer, especially if they're going to become obsolete if Steinberg keeps at it and takes us to the DAW+notation holy land, or if Apple or PreSonus or AVID surprise us and beat them to it, but it's so tempting... Hmm. The dream would be Apple buys StaffPad and makes it the new Logic remote, how about it? [end ramble]
> 
> What's the state of StaffPad MIDI export? Do dynamics and techniques from the score affect the MIDI data?



Believe me I know the waiting game for these tools. I have hedged by betting on all of them. David, co-creator of StaffPad was given a private invitation to see the new Apple Pencil and IPads years ago before they came out. This is the big reason why it took StaffPad 5 years to come out with a major release. So Apple is watching. And so is Microsoft who initially influenced them.

Talk to the Dorico team and there are NO signs of them integrating with Cubase. And they bet on expression maps. That is NOT going to do it.

I thought the savior was going to be Noteperformer but Wallander Instruments has no interest in doing Real Sampling with roundrobins etc... they are more interested in their proprietary simulated instruments. Nope, not it.

Notion, they haven't updated that in years after the Presonus acquisition. I gave up.

StaffPad is up next, and I spent all my time chasing these other solutions until last week, so we'll see.

MIDI CC11 is exported which they allow you to edit in the App (see Ole above). Articulations are only supported in MusicXML as far as I know.


----------



## Eric G

Kanter said:


> Many thanks to all for the eloquent comparisons between libraries. For those who own all the solo string- carrying libraries (I understand Spitfire is not among them), how do you rate them, respectively?


That's easy Berlin Strings First Chairs. The detail is on par with the full library with Re-bows for connected repeated notes and a great sound. Paired with the full Berlin Strings its exceptional. But I have more testing I want to do, probably this weekend.

The only other option is CineString Solo is not impressive out of the box and not as nimble. Again I hope to dive deep this weekend in both.


----------



## JF

Eric G said:


> That's easy Berlin Strings First Chairs. The detail is on par with the full library with Re-bows for connected repeated notes and a great sound. Paired with the full Berlin Strings its exceptional. But I have more testing I want to do, probably this weekend.
> 
> The only other option is CineString Solo is not impressive out of the box and not as nimble. Again I hope to dive deep this weekend in both.


Eric, are you able to post a sample of the Berlin first chairs?


----------



## giwro

Eric G said:


> Believe me I know the waiting game for these tools. I have hedged by betting on all of them. David, co-creator of StaffPad was given a private invitation to see the new Apple Pencil and IPads years ago before they came out. This is the big reason why it took StaffPad 5 years to come out with a major release. So Apple is watching. And so is Microsoft who initially influenced them.
> 
> Talk to the Dorico team and there are NO signs of them integrating with Cubase. And they bet on expression maps. That is NOT going to do it.
> 
> I thought the savior was going to be Noteperformer but Wallander Instruments has no interest in doing Real Sampling with roundrobins etc... they are more interested in their proprietary simulated instruments. Nope, not it.
> 
> Notion, they haven't updated that in years after the Presonus acquisition. I gave up.
> 
> StaffPad is up next, and I spent all my time chasing these other solutions until last week, so we'll see.
> 
> MIDI CC11 is exported which they allow you to edit in the App (see Ole above). Articulations are only supported in MusicXML as far as I know.



Bravo.

I’m right there with you - long have I wanted to be able to have HQ sounds connected to notation, and have it easy to produce a professional sound without weird convoluted editing... in short, something intuitive.

Noteperformer comes close for balances - it really is a great sketching tool... but as you note above, it will never be a HQ tool. Dorico is a lot easier to use than Finale for most things (and I say that as a veteran user since 1994!) but not useful for samples once you get past a certain number of instruments (as you found out!)

Is this my Holy Grail? Dunno, but it shows great promise, and I hope to see it succeed.


----------



## Eric G

JF said:


> Eric, are you able to post a sample of the Berlin first chairs?



Working on that this weekend. Give me something in the public domain that I can find a MusicXML for and I can do it. Just don't make it too long.


----------



## Eric G

Right. So I am doing this anyway so I might as well share . All of these are straight from the exact same MusicXML with minor editing and the same orchestral panning of one or two dynamic markings fixes to be fair to all libraries. The only common library is CinePERC for all percussion except for the Stock Demo. I will not lead you on the one I prefer. I chose this piece because of its dynamic range and the exposure of certain instruments in the Brass.

With all of them I would prefer to export STEMS (not available but on the roadmap) and MIX and Master them Myself. I would NOT use any of these directly from StaffPad. So I am trying to evaluate which Suite I can fix up in mixing to create a final master.


----------



## dcoscina

The OrchestralmTools seemed to be the most Balanced and clear.


----------



## emilio_n

Eric G said:


> Right. So I am doing this anyway so I might as well share . All of these are straight from the exact same MusicXML with minor editing and the same orchestral panning of one or two dynamic markings fixes to be fair to all libraries. The only common library is CinePERC for all percussion except for the Stock Demo. I will not lead you on the one I prefer. I chose this piece because of its dynamic range and the exposure of certain instruments in the Brass.
> 
> With all of them I would prefer to export STEMS (not available but on the roadmap) and MIX and Master them Myself. I would NOT use any of these directly from StaffPad. So I am trying to evaluate which Suite I can fix up in mixing to create a final master.



Thanks for sharing. I think that for me the stock library is more than enough as I will export to my DAW to tweak.


----------



## bigtony420420

Howdy partners!

All sounds very cool and sci fi. I would love to hear some more diverse musical examples of the high end sample libraries - sounds great playing the slow legato stuff. What about some more athletic passages? I’m happy to post some score examples for one of you lucky ducks to write out. What breaks it? 

Sin-cerely yours,


----------



## Michael Antrum

Well, whilst the 3rd party libraries do sound better, the stock sounds are certainly pretty good in their own right.

Listening to the examples I am leaning towards Spitfire, particularly the Chamber Strings which I think sound beautiful.

The one thing that worries me now is that someone like Apple will open their wallet, and then take this away after we've all spent a boat load of money on it - like they did with Camel Audio Alchemy.

But apart from that I may have found my ideal workflow....


----------



## Kanter

Eric G said:


> That's easy Berlin Strings First Chairs. The detail is on par with the full library with Re-bows for connected repeated notes and a great sound. Paired with the full Berlin Strings its exceptional. But I have more testing I want to do, probably this weekend.
> 
> The only other option is CineString Solo is not impressive out of the box and not as nimble. Again I hope to dive deep this weekend in both.


thanks much, Berlin FC does not yet have any samples up in the store, and re the Cine Solo strings I agree with you.


----------



## Elephant

Still a few questions -
Would someone be OK to import and render the first few minutes of this file in SP as part of their library tests ? https://musescore.com/cherylthegoat/scores/2297946

What Windows tablets play nicely with this other than the Surface range ? Anything really light in a slate format ?

Is a pen really obligatory if you are just using SP as a rendering engine ?

How does the ipad version compare with the Windows version in terms of playback quality ? 

E


----------



## Mymind

Eric G said:


> Right. So I am doing this anyway so I might as well share . All of these are straight from the exact same MusicXML with minor editing and the same orchestral panning of one or two dynamic markings fixes to be fair to all libraries. The only common library is CinePERC for all percussion except for the Stock Demo. I will not lead you on the one I prefer. I chose this piece because of its dynamic range and the exposure of certain instruments in the Brass.
> 
> With all of them I would prefer to export STEMS (not available but on the roadmap) and MIX and Master them Myself. I would NOT use any of these directly from StaffPad. So I am trying to evaluate which Suite I can fix up in mixing to create a final master.



Hi guys,
Sorry but I am not english native speaker but what does mean stock demo or orchestra?
Are all the music played on these examples are from staffpad and which librairies?
Thanks you very much.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Stock demo/stock orchestra are the orchestra that comes with Staffpad.


----------



## Kanter

I know the topic of owning (and possibly re-selling) sample libraries has been discussed elaborately elsewhere. As these in-app purchases now potentially become significant investments, I wonder what the perspective is with regard to possibly selling on the libraries at a later point? I am guessing the restrictions spelled out come from both the Sample providers and the respective app stores?


----------



## gfcgfc

Hi, can anyone owning Spitfire Symphonic Strings or Chamber Strings Staffpad Edition confirm that these libraries include “con sordino” and “sul pont” samples and that they are responding to relative instructions on the score ?

thanks
GF


----------



## Mymind

OleJoergensen said:


> Stock demo/stock orchestra are the orchestra that comes with Staffpad.


Thanks


----------



## Eric G

Mymind said:


> Hi guys,
> Sorry but I am not english native speaker but what does mean stock demo or orchestra?
> Are all the music played on these examples are from staffpad and which librairies?
> Thanks you very much.


Stock = the library that came with StaffPad without Purchase


----------



## Mymind

Eric G said:


> Stock = the library that came with StaffPad without Purchase


Thanks


----------



## Eric G

bigtony420420 said:


> Howdy partners!
> 
> All sounds very cool and sci fi. I would love to hear some more diverse musical examples of the high end sample libraries - sounds great playing the slow legato stuff. What about some more athletic passages? I’m happy to post some score examples for one of you lucky ducks to write out. What breaks it?
> 
> Sin-cerely yours,


That's exactly what I am trying to do, see what is good for what. Go ahead and suggest something. But I need it in MusicXML and not too long because I don't want to do a lot of cleanup.


----------



## Mymind

I plan to buy an ipad and buy orchestral third parties librairies. Could you guys list all the libraries available? Does Orchestral Tools have a Staffpad edition of Brass and Woodwinds? Also do they have the first chair proposed into staffpad? For percussion. I think I will go for cinepercs. Thanks a lot.


----------



## Eric G

StaffPad Libraries:
Orchestral Tools: Strings, WW, Brass, String First Chairs, Harps, Pianos, Percussion
CineSamples: Strings, WW, Brass, Solo Strings, Harps, Pianos, Percussion, Choir
Spitfire: Strings, WW, Brass, Chamber Strings


----------



## Mymind

Eric G said:


> StaffPad Libraries:
> Orchestral Tools: Strings, WW, Brass, String First Chairs, Harps, Pianos, Percussion
> CineSamples: Strings, WW, Brass, Solo Strings, Harps, Pianos, Percussion, Choir
> Spitfire: Strings, WW, Brass, Chamber Strings


Thank you very much Eric.


----------



## bricop

This is so exciting!! I compose contemporary classical music and use a lot of extended techniques such as string and brass glissandi which Noteperformer handles beautifully but what about staffpad? How does it handle writing and playing back glissandi?


----------



## Eric G

bricop said:


> This is so exciting!! I compose contemporary classical music and use a lot of extended techniques such as string and brass glissandi which Noteperformer handles beautifully but what about staffpad? How does it handle writing and playing back glissandi?


I can confirm glissandi placement between notes (you don't exactly hand write them) and playback.


----------



## dcoscina

Just pulled the trigger on Berlin Brass since I’m composing a series of brass pieces to be performed this year.


----------



## bricop

Eric G said:


> I can confirm glissandi placement between notes (you don't exactly hand write them) and playback.


Thanks Eric, can you place them across the barline, say starting at the beginning of one bar and ending at the end of the next bar?


----------



## gfcgfc

HI, sorry to bother you, but I'm undecided between Spitfire Symphonic Strings and Chamber Strings and the "sul pont" & "con sordino" samples could make a difference for me.
On the store it says that Symphonic Strings has both and it says nothing related about Chamber Strings.
I just would like to be sure that sul pont and sordino are only present in the Symphonic package and not in the Chamber.

If there is someone owning both (or even one of the two) help me ?

Thanks


----------



## Michael Antrum

gfcgfc said:


> HI, sorry to bother you, but I'm undecided between Spitfire Symphonic Strings and Chamber Strings and the "sul pont" & "con sordino" samples could make a difference for me.
> On the store it says that Symphonic Strings has both and it says nothing related about Chamber Strings.
> I just would like to be sure that sul pont and sordino are only present in the Symphonic package and not in the Chamber.
> 
> If there is someone owning both (or even one of the two) help me ?
> 
> Thanks



You could try firing an email over to Spitfire support - they are usually pretty quick to get back to you. And don't forget to let us all know when you find out the answer.

I've decided to buy Staffpad today - It's Valentine's day and I'm just so gorgeous and sexy I deserve it....


----------



## Eric G

bricop said:


> Thanks Eric, can you place them across the barline, say starting at the beginning of one bar and ending at the end of the next bar?



Yes


----------



## Eric G

gfcgfc said:


> HI, sorry to bother you, but I'm undecided between Spitfire Symphonic Strings and Chamber Strings and the "sul pont" & "con sordino" samples could make a difference for me.
> On the store it says that Symphonic Strings has both and it says nothing related about Chamber Strings.
> I just would like to be sure that sul pont and sordino are only present in the Symphonic package and not in the Chamber.
> 
> If there is someone owning both (or even one of the two) help me ?
> 
> Thanks



I can confirm Sul Pont and Con Sordino and Sul Tasto with Spitfire Symphonic Strings. I can't confirm with Chamber Strings as I haven't purchased it YET.


----------



## Progfather

Man, after messing with Staffpad more last night, I just find it absolutely unusable. I was trying to be patient with it but there's no use.

I started the program, and found an interesting screen tailored to Staffpad saying, my program was corrupted, and that I needed to backup my Scores and reinstall. Okay...

After reinstalling, I found the program constantly crashing when just attempting to insert a G# (four ledger lines above treble clef). Well, it added the G, but adding a # was impossible. In fact, I was able to add the other accidentals (flat and natural), but not a sharp. It kept trying to add other notes, including those in the staves above where I was writing. I tried various sizes, and distances away from the note. Between my 100+ attempts to add an accidental, and the 10+ crashes I experienced, I gave up. The fact that I can't grab a note and force an accidental on it from the toolbar, but rather wrestle with the unimproved handwriting recognition is kind of a joke.

I'll keep an eye on updates from the company, but honestly I don't know how this program made it through QA testing. I'm using a Surface Pro 7, one of the devices THEY RECOMMEND - and it still behaves like a free program - and even then, I haven't seen the amount of issues with a free program that I've seen with this.

This was an ambitious update, and I respect the company in that regard, but I can't help but think they half assed many things as well.


----------



## gfcgfc

Eric G said:


> I can confirm Sul Pont and Con Sordino and Sul Tasto with Spitfire Symphonic Strings. I can't confirm with Chamber Strings as I haven't purchased it YET.


Thanks !


----------



## Eric G

Progfather said:


> Man, after messing with Staffpad more last night, I just find it absolutely unusable. I was trying to be patient with it but there's no use.
> 
> I started the program, and found an interesting screen tailored to Staffpad saying, my program was corrupted, and that I needed to backup my Scores and reinstall. Okay...
> 
> After reinstalling, I found the program constantly crashing when just attempting to insert a G# (four ledger lines above treble clef). Well, it added the G, but adding a # was impossible. In fact, I was able to add the other accidentals (flat and natural), but not a sharp. It kept trying to add other notes, including those in the staves above where I was writing. I tried various sizes, and distances away from the note. Between my 100+ attempts to add an accidental, and the 10+ crashes I experienced, I gave up. The fact that I can't grab a note and force an accidental on it from the toolbar, but rather wrestle with the unimproved handwriting recognition is kind of a joke.
> 
> I'll keep an eye on updates from the company, but honestly I don't know how this program made it through QA testing. I'm using a Surface Pro 7, one of the devices THEY RECOMMEND - and it still behaves like a free program - and even then, I haven't seen the amount of issues with a free program that I've seen with this.
> 
> This was an ambitious update, and I respect the company in that regard, but I can't help but think they half assed many things as well.


Bad timing. Yesterday the StaffPad team made a mistake and pushed a bad release. 3.0.6.0 for PC that caused the corruption and instability. They fixed it immediately and pushed out 3.0.7.0. However it takes 24hrs for updates from the Microsoft Store. As of this morning when it arrived, it is back to normal for me.

No excuse, but unfortunate and I can completely understand your assessment.

BTW I don't work for them but I talk to them regularly via support.


----------



## ridgero

Hmmm, would you recommend StaffPad to someone in order to learn compose music by hand? I haven’t done any handwritten music yet.


----------



## Progfather

Eric G said:


> Bad timing. Yesterday the StaffPad team made a mistake and pushed a bad release. 3.0.6.0 for PC that caused the corruption and instability. They fixed it immediately and pushed out 3.0.7.0. However it takes 24hrs for updates from the Microsoft Store. As of this morning when it arrived, it is back to normal for me.
> 
> No excuse, but unfortunate and I can completely understand your assessment.
> 
> BTW I don't work for them but I talk to them regularly via support.



Hey Eric,

I just checked this morning and see that I am running 3.0.7.0. So hopefully it updated when I restarted it. I'll have to try again later, but if I was running the 'fixed' version and encountered those issues, that's pretty bad. Again, I don't mean to be negative. I'm so glad this is working for many others, but I seem to be one of the users that has terrible luck with it.


----------



## Eric G

Progfather said:


> Hey Eric,
> 
> I just checked this morning and see that I am running 3.0.7.0. So hopefully it updated when I restarted it. I'll have to try again later, but if I was running the 'fixed' version and encountered those issues, that's pretty bad. Again, I don't mean to be negative. I'm so glad this is working for many others, but I seem to be one of the users that has terrible luck with it.



You have a right to be negative. It was unprofessional screw up.

I should have warned everyone when I saw the problem yesterday.


----------



## giwro

@Eric G - do the Berlin Strings have con sordino? It’s emulated in the kontakt version IIRC, but the docs aren’t clear about this version...


----------



## Eric G

Not that I a


giwro said:


> @Eric G - do the Berlin Strings have con sordino? It’s emulated in the kontakt version IIRC, but the docs aren’t clear about this version...


Not that I am aware of and can verify. Only in Spitfire. I think you will find that each of these libraries were given their own unique capabilities. I don't know if that is on purpose by the publishers or StaffPad, but I don't think you can live very long with just one of them.


----------



## giwro

Eric G said:


> Not that I a
> 
> Not that I am aware of and can verify. Only in Spitfire. I think you will find that each of these libraries were given their own unique capabilities. I don't know if that is on purpose by the publishers or StaffPad, but I don't think you can live very long with just one of them.


That was what I was afraid of... my wallet weeps...


----------



## ridgero

How big are the libraries?


----------



## stevebarden

I've been watching this thread and listening to the examples you've all been posting. Yesterday I took the plunge and bought Staffpad for iPad. Yes, it's the most expensive mobile app I've ever purchased, but in comparison to the price of desktop apps like Sibelius and Finale and what it can do, it's a bargain!

I come from the traditional pencil-and-paper world and have been waiting for this product for 30 years! I never could embrace the mouse-and-keyboard style of Sibelius, Finale, etc. I've been trying to use Notion on iPad for a while now but never found the workflow to be very good. I think Staffpad has solved that problem.

Yes there is a learning curve for using the Apple Pencil. I spent 6 hours practicing. This is not any different than when we learned penmanship as a child. I've had to unlearn some writing techniques I would normally use on paper, but that's to be expected.

Overall I'm very impressed and think this will be "the one". My intention is to use it as a compositional tool, not as a replacement for my DAW. I don't think I would ever use it to produce a final audio file. I think the stock sounds - except for the strings - are pretty darn good! They are way better than the stock sounds in Notion. I look forward to eventually adding 3rd party libraries, and it's nice to know I can add them as I go along and not break the bank doing so.

It's not a perfect piece of software. None are. It's crashed a couple of times. I know it will get better over time. Here are my initial observations:


I used the lasso tool to select some notes then immediately tapped outside of the measure. It crashed. You're probably not supposed to do that. QA test engineers typically test the "happy path" - the way you're supposed to use it. It's a good idea to get a 4 year old to play with it just to see what will break it.


The amount of pressure required to use on the Apple Pencil to trigger eraser mode is too much in my opinion. I feel like I'm going to break the tip to get it to turn on.


The app needs a mixer page. This is somewhat of a deal breaker for me. I want to be able to solo an instrument (or two or three) to hear what's going on. Having to scroll back to the first measure and tap on the instrument name to pull up the mixer parameters really breaks the workflow. I hope this is something in the works. Also, it would be nice to be able to group instruments to a bus so I can solo sections, like Strings, Brass, etc.


Writing dynamic markings like p, mf, ff, etc. are not consistent. It seems that each letter must be contained within a single stroke. I can write any "m" or "p" combination but the letter "f" requires two strokes. I can never write "mf". Yes, there is an alternate method of entering the text, but it would be nice to be able to do it with the pencil.


The app seems to only work in landscape mode. Even though I can rotate the iPad to portrait mode and the score is showing correctly, I cannot edit anything. That's a shame. Sometimes you just gotta write music while laying in bed. It's easier to hold the device in that orientation in that circumstance. I'm using a 9.7" iPad Pro.
That's it for now. This app is a joy to use!


----------



## foxby

stevebarden,

Totally agree with everything what you have written above !

Point 2 also make me think about the Ipad screen ( using a 12.9 Ipad pro) ..if is going to resist to such amount of pressure over time...
But in the end, is a great app to work with, hopefully all mentioned above will be fixed !


----------



## emasters

stevebarden said:


> The app needs a mixer page. This is somewhat of a deal breaker for me. I want to be able to solo an instrument (or two or three) to hear what's going on. Having to scroll back to the first measure and tap on the instrument name to pull up the mixer parameters really breaks the workflow. I hope this is something in the works. Also, it would be nice to be able to group instruments to a bus so I can solo sections, like Strings, Brass, etc.



I messaged David at StaffPad about this last week - definitely slows things down. He said in an upcoming update, they will provide a shortcut, that allows one to swipe up on a staff's clef to solo, and swipe down to mute. While this is not a full mixer, it's a pretty nice solution to quickly solo or mute a part (since the clefs are always visible on the left side). Looking forward to this enhancement!


----------



## Eric G

emasters said:


> I messaged David at StaffPad about this last week - definitely slows things down. He said in an upcoming update, they will provide a shortcut, that allows one to swipe up on a staff's clef to solo, and swipe down to mute. While this is not a full mixer, it's a pretty nice solution to quickly solo or mute a part (since the clefs are always visible on the left side). Looking forward to this enhancement!



The most important thing for me to complete my workflow is per Instrument STEM export to WAV so I can mix and master in ProTools or a DAW.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I've had the app for a day and a half now, and I am starting to get the hang of using it (I think).

However, I was just playing around with it and it occurred to me - imagine if you could enter notes by singing them into the voice assistant, and the software notates it. It might sound bit like voodoo, but so was speech recognition not so very long ago.....


----------



## agarner32

This may have been talked about already, but I couldn't find it. Does anyone know how large on average the add-on libraries are?


----------



## dcoscina

agarner32 said:


> This may have been talked about already, but I couldn't find it. Does anyone know how large on average the add-on libraries are?


I think they are about 2gb.


----------



## agarner32

dcoscina said:


> I think they are about 2gb.


Thanks. Wow that’s pretty small. I guess I don’t have an excuse to not get all symphonic sections. Well except the cost.


----------



## prodigalson

stevebarden said:


> The app needs a mixer page. This is somewhat of a deal breaker for me. I want to be able to solo an instrument (or two or three) to hear what's going on. Having to scroll back to the first measure and tap on the instrument name to pull up the mixer parameters really breaks the workflow. I hope this is something in the works. Also, it would be nice to be able to group instruments to a bus so I can solo sections, like Strings, Brass, etc.



you don’t need to scroll back to the top to solo. You can simply tap on the short light grey names to the left on each staff.

also your issue about only working in landscape mode is not normal. Mine works perfectly fine in portrait


----------



## paulthomson

Just got to say... this app has been totally transformative for me this week. To be able to write to the page.. free of the keyboard - and hear immediately my ideas and how they sound with orchestra - this is absolutely going to be a part of my compositional process moving forward.. 

It’s been such unadulterated FUN writing with this app this week!! This is like a dream come true...


----------



## Mymind

paulthomson said:


> Just got to say... this app has been totally transformative for me this week. To be able to write to the page.. free of the keyboard - and hear immediately my ideas and how they sound with orchestra - this is absolutely going to be a part of my compositional process moving forward..
> It’s been such unadulterated FUN writing with this app this week!! This is like a dream come true...


Hi Paul,
May be a review or live composition on your youtube channel?


----------



## PaulBrimstone

paulthomson said:


> Just got to say... this app has been totally transformative for me this week. To be able to write to the page.. free of the keyboard - and hear immediately my ideas and how they sound with orchestra - this is absolutely going to be a part of my compositional process moving forward..
> 
> It’s been such unadulterated FUN writing with this app this week!! This is like a dream come true...


Great! Could you share some tech info on how SA implemented the libraries and how they differ from the core product?


----------



## prodigalson

100


paulthomson said:


> Just got to say... this app has been totally transformative for me this week. To be able to write to the page.. free of the keyboard - and hear immediately my ideas and how they sound with orchestra - this is absolutely going to be a part of my compositional process moving forward..
> 
> It’s been such unadulterated FUN writing with this app this week!! This is like a dream come true...



100% agree. It’s absolutely exhilarating writing by hand and then immediately being able to hear it performed VERY convincingly with great samples. 

Hopefully your enthusiasm means there’ll be more SF libraries available on the app?


----------



## dcoscina

prodigalson said:


> you don’t need to scroll back to the top to solo. You can simply tap on the short light grey names to the left on each staff.
> 
> also your issue about only working in landscape mode is not normal. Mine works perfectly fine in portrait


Me too. iPad Air 3 here and portrait works fine. Better actually for me


----------



## curtisschweitzer

stevebarden said:


> My intention is to use it as a compositional tool, not as a replacement for my DAW.



I would add that it is not designed as a replacement for a "real" engraving program either-- and explicitly so. This is not going to be able to handle extremely complex or non-standard notation, because it isn't designed to do that. Likewise, even with the third-party libraries, it is not designed to replace a DAW. It is a sketching and compositional tool first, and it excels at that.


----------



## dcoscina

I work at a music store during the day and I’ve been showing Staffpad to everyone who comes through that is predisposed to writing music traditionally. All of them are stunned by the technology.


----------



## prodigalson

Eric G said:


> The most important thing for me to complete my workflow is per Instrument STEM export to WAV so I can mix and master in ProTools or a DAW.



it’s not as elegant but you can simply solo staves as you like and export to wav... doing WW, BRASS, STRING, PERC stems wouldn’t take very long to create


----------



## stevebarden

prodigalson said:


> you don’t need to scroll back to the top to solo. You can simply tap on the short light grey names to the left on each staff.
> 
> also your issue about only working in landscape mode is not normal. Mine works perfectly fine in portrait


Ha! Yes, I discovered this by accident. That helps not having to go back to the first measure.

As far as editing in portrait goes, it’s now working. Not sure what the issue was last night. Maybe I stumbled onto a weird bug.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I’ve had the Notion IOS app with handwriting recognition for some time now (2 years I think).

So bearing that in mind, why does StaffPad feel so transformative ....?

I’ve an original iPad Pro 9.7”, but I can now see myself getting a new 12.9”.

Yesterday, I had lunch in a nice little pub/restaurant and whilst waiting for the food to arrive I was writing music.

I’m off back to Freetown later this month, and during the normally boring seven hour flight I can do something productive.

For me at least, this is going to make a big difference to the time I can devote to music.


----------



## jon wayne

Mac users: Are you using a Apple pencil, or will alternatives suffice?


----------



## foxby

I haven't tried other alternatives ; using apple pen 2, and is ok.


----------



## ridgero

Any iPad recommendations?


----------



## tmhuud

ridgero said:


> Any iPad recommendations?


Go Pro. It’s an experience all to itself.


----------



## ridgero

11 or 12.9?


----------



## tmhuud

Go for the bigger screen real estate. It makes it a lot more versatile. It’s a good size for reading sheet music.


----------



## Fry777

Anybody using Staffpad with an older Surface ? I got a Surface pro 1 (i5/8gb RAM) and wondering about performance...


----------



## Mymind

Fry777 said:


> Anybody using Staffpad with an older Surface ? I got a Surface pro 1 (i5/8gb RAM) and wondering about performance...


I am using surface pro 5 8gb RAM and it works well and rarely crash (actually crashed once within 5 hours of exploring). Although I am planning to buy an Ipad pro before buying and using third librairies.


----------



## dcoscina

ridgero said:


> Any iPad recommendations?


I got the iPad Air 3 which has the A12 chip. It’s larger screen 10.5” is nicer than my older Air 2 and it’s fast! I considered the 11” Pro but it was significantly more expensive and I wasn’t sure whether Staffpad was indeed going to be much improved from my initial experience with it back in 2015 on the Surface Pro. The Air 3 has similar benchmarks as far As single core performance and I don’t find Staffpad lagging. When I drag notes the audio crackles a little bit but not during normal playback.


----------



## waveheavy

Mymind said:


> I am using surface pro 5 8gb RAM and it works well and rarely crash (actually crashed once within 5 hours of exploring). Although I am planning to buy an Ipad pro before buying and using third librairies.



I'm pretty sure you can buy the app and libraries now for your surface pro, and when you get an iPad Pro you can just go to the Microsoft store and download them for the iPad.


----------



## giwro

waveheavy said:


> I'm pretty sure you can buy the app and libraries now for your surface pro, and when you get an iPad Pro you can just go to the Microsoft store and download them for the iPad.


No.

There is no provision for cross-platform library sharing.


----------



## ridgero

giwro said:


> No.
> 
> There is no provision for cross-platform library sharing.



Wow, thats a huge drawback.


----------



## Mymind

ridgero said:


> Wow, thats a huge drawback.


Indeed


----------



## Mymind

PaulBrimstone said:


> Great! Could you share some tech info on how SA implemented the libraries and how they differ from the core product?


+1
Considering a complete orchestra libraries take only and approximately 8Gb, there must be an important differences. There are not enough details about the libraries within staffpad nor the libraries websites. Also, a big drawback is that all of the articulations are not covered by a third library. For example, grace notes, doit, fall etc. which are covered by the stock library of staffpad.


----------



## Michael Antrum

ridgero said:


> Wow, thats a huge drawback.




It's not the developers fault at all. The Apple Store and the Windows Store have no interoperability whatsoever. Dont forget Apple and MS both take a cut from the sale of products sold on their store.

The developer has no real alternative choice if they want to put the product on an iPad other than the Apple Store.


----------



## gfcgfc

Mymind said:


> +1
> Considering a complete orchestra libraries take only and approximately 8Gb, there must be an important differences. There are not enough details about the libraries within staffpad nor the libraries websites. Also, a big drawback is that all of the articulations are not covered by a third library. For example, grace notes, doit, fall etc. which are covered by the stock library of staffpad.



I suppose the big space reduction in libraries is due to some of the following (my assumptions):
- larger compression
- single mic position
- non chromatic samples
- single layer true legato
- reduced layer
- reduced number of articulations

But in the end what really matters is the level of integration with score instructions and the overall quality of rendering, not the number of sampling layers.
Owning the full Berlin orchestra both in staffpad (11gb) and in kontkat/mac versions (+200gb) and coming from 3 years of stock Notion sounds on ipad, I can only say this is a dream come true.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Second test with Staffpad and Berlin strings. Here I uses divissi, 9 tracks.
The short composition is called “Moderato espressivo”.

I hope that Staffpad team in an update will ad “drop down menu” for slurs and dynamics as there is for hairpin etc. I find it very difficult to draw....


----------



## thesteelydane

OleJoergensen said:


> Second test with Staffpad and Berlin strings. Here I uses divissi, 9 tracks.
> The short composition is called “Moderato espressivo”.
> 
> I hope that Staffpad team in an update will ad “drop down menu” for slurs and dynamics as there is for hairpin etc. I find it very difficult to draw....



For dynamics you can just type the text, no need to draw.


----------



## Michael Antrum

On my iPad Pro 9.7 I'm finding it a bit crash happy when using the lasoo tool.


----------



## OleJoergensen

thesteelydane said:


> For dynamics you can just type the text, no need to draw.


Tak skal du have!
It certainly makes it more easy for me, with my shaky handwritting.


----------



## Mymind

I just have listened to the different symphonic strings libraries demo with good headphone and they are really good! Each has its own particurarity but damn good! I don’t know which of them to buy... Besides, more libraries (strings or others) could enter later so may be I should wait.


----------



## foxby

I would also like to see that the accidentals can be placed in different voices....no need to change all the time the voices for adding a sharp /flat..especially in piano music..


----------



## Eric G

I have been kind of distracted the last day or so. I have been going all out to test StaffPad.

This is the Dream for me folks. StaffPad on a 28" Surface Studio with resolution close to a retina display. Piano Sketch at the top (muted after development) with the rest of the score being built out at the bottom. Chords track to keep errant notes to a minimum) SS has a reclining screen like a Wacom that you can put your arm on (no palm are arm issues) and pinch to Zoom in and out. StaffPad has unlocked by creativity again. And the best thing is I can drop it on My IPad pro on the Go. Amazing.


----------



## agarner32

Has anyone had any problems with downloading Berlin Strings? I haven't been successful yet. I have plenty of room and a really strong download speed.


----------



## foxby

Amazing !
Well, not so spectacular as yours, but still very happy with my Ipad pro 12.9!


----------



## OleJoergensen

Eric G said:


> I have been kind of distracted the last day or so. I have been going all out to test StaffPad.
> 
> This is the Dream for me folks. StaffPad on a 28" Surface Studio with resolution close to a retina display. Piano Sketch at the top (muted after development) with the rest of the score being built out at the bottom. Chords track to keep errant notes to a minimum) SS has a reclining screen like a Wacom that you can put your arm on (no palm are arm issues) and pinch to Zoom in and out. StaffPad has unlocked by creativity again. And the best thing is I can drop it on My IPad pro on the Go. Amazing.


It looks great.
Are you able, to write on the screen vertical standing?


----------



## Eric G

OleJoergensen said:


> It looks great.
> Are you able, to write on the screen vertical standing?


Yes. Write and touch.


----------



## tomc_020

Hi all. Is anyone else having the problem whereby a project reverts back to an earlier save, losing all the work you have done in the meantime?
Unfortunstely this has happened to me twice now, which has been quite upsetting. A few hours work, lost.

It is also creating multiple duplicates of each project, randomly.

Does anyone know why it might be doing this? Thanks for your help.


----------



## Eric G

OleJoergensen said:


> It looks great.
> Are you able, to write on the screen vertical standing?


Yes. Write and touch.


foxby said:


> Amazing !
> Well, not so spectacular as yours, but still very happy with my Ipad pro 12.9!


Wow. That is a lot of detail. How is the playback?


----------



## Soundhound

Can you audition notes as you enter them?


----------



## Eric G

tomc_020 said:


> Hi all. Is anyone else having the problem whereby a project reverts back to an earlier save, losing all the work you have done in the meantime?
> Unfortunstely this has happened to me twice now, which has been quite upsetting. A few hours work, lost.
> 
> It is also creating multiple duplicates of each project, randomly.
> 
> Does anyone know why it might be doing this? Thanks for your help.


On IPad?


----------



## Eric G

Soundhound said:


> Can you audition notes as you enter them?


Yes so far. Drag it across the staff and you hear a short note or hit.


----------



## dcoscina

OleJoergensen said:


> Second test with Staffpad and Berlin strings. Here I uses divissi, 9 tracks.
> The short composition is called “Moderato espressivo”.
> 
> I hope that Staffpad team in an update will ad “drop down menu” for slurs and dynamics as there is for hairpin etc. I find it very difficult to draw....



Dude this sounds amazing. Those violins have just the right amount of vibrato. I’m stunned. This is my next purchase. You should get Staffpad to use this as a demo


----------



## Mymind

Eric G said:


> I have been kind of distracted the last day or so. I have been going all out to test StaffPad.
> 
> This is the Dream for me folks. StaffPad on a 28" Surface Studio with resolution close to a retina display. Piano Sketch at the top (muted after development) with the rest of the score being built out at the bottom. Chords track to keep errant notes to a minimum) SS has a reclining screen like a Wacom that you can put your arm on (no palm are arm issues) and pinch to Zoom in and out. StaffPad has unlocked by creativity again. And the best thing is I can drop it on My IPad pro on the Go. Amazing.


Amazing Eric. Is the SS really silent when working with it, especially on staffpad or another musical program (daw etc.)? I had considered buying it one year ago but I read somewhere that it is not silent and noise is constantly heard so I didn’t buy it. I am that kind of person who is very frustrated when hearing a noise when composing.


----------



## OleJoergensen

dcoscina said:


> Dude this sounds amazing. Those violins have just the right amount of vibrato. I’m stunned. This is my next purchase. You should get Staffpad to use this as a demo


Thank you for your kind words .


----------



## stevebarden

I am correct that on iPad the scores can only be saved to iCloud and not the device? I can’t see any options for storage location and that will prevent the app from working unless connected to WiFi.


----------



## tomc_020

Eric G said:


> On IPad?


Hi Eric, yes it’s iPad.


----------



## duringtheafter

Been using this for about 10 days now. So far it's been really smooth with a few exceptions - is anyone else having the following issues?

1) Standard library "Trumpets" staff/patch - if I put a regular accent on a note (of any length - eight, quarter, half) and it plays as staccato instead of an accent. (Works properly on all other instruments I've tried so far.)

2) Highlight a bar, hit the "copy" icon... and the program shuts down. Have replicated this 10 times in a row in 3 larger scores (full orchestra instrumentation). WORKAROUND: highlight the bar, press Ctrl+C... prevents the crash for some reason. (Paste icon or Ctrl+V works to paste.)

3) no pull through / ability to play pizzicato, mute/con sordino, etc. (I think this has been established but just checking if anyone found a workaround.)

Otherwise I'm getting used to the handwriting, and I've sketched out some things in a short session that would never have been written if I had to boot up my desktop, turn on all the sound equipment, open Cubase or Sibelius, start thinking... The immediacy from StaffPad loading (3 seconds) to composing is really helping short circuit my procrastination.


----------



## gfcgfc

agarner32 said:


> Has anyone had any problems with downloading Berlin Strings? I haven't been successful yet. I have plenty of room and a really strong download speed.



Yes, I’ve had problems downloading some libraries.
I’ve finally been able to finalize download using version 1.0.3 on ipad and starting from scratch (completely removed previous installation).
Some of the libraries installed automatically; for others I had to ”buy” the library again and got the message “you’ve already bought this item. Would you like to download it again for free” Etc.etc.


----------



## Eric G

Mymind said:


> Amazing Eric. Is the SS really silent when working with it, especially on staffpad or another musical program (daw etc.)? I had considered buying it one year ago but I read somewhere that it is not silent and noise is constantly heard so I didn’t buy it. I am that kind of person who is very frustrated when hearing a noise when composing.


I guess it depends on what you are doing with it. I don't even notice the fan. Seriously. Go to a Microsoft Store if you have one around you and see for yourself. Its very quite although it does have a fan. Its much better than the ThreadRipper Workstation I was using for my Dorico/MIDI workflow. That sounds like a jet taking off.

I have a 1st Generation Surface Studio. You should be able to find one on Amazon and it is much cheaper. I have 32GB 1TB SSD.


----------



## Eric G

duringtheafter said:


> Been using this for about 10 days now. So far it's been really smooth with a few exceptions - is anyone else having the following issues?
> 
> 1) Standard library "Trumpets" staff/patch - if I put a regular accent on a note (of any length - eight, quarter, half) and it plays as staccato instead of an accent. (Works properly on all other instruments I've tried so far.)
> 
> 2) Highlight a bar, hit the "copy" icon... and the program shuts down. Have replicated this 10 times in a row in 3 larger scores (full orchestra instrumentation). WORKAROUND: highlight the bar, press Ctrl+C... prevents the crash for some reason. (Paste icon or Ctrl+V works to paste.)
> 
> 3) no pull through / ability to play pizzicato, mute/con sordino, etc. (I think this has been established but just checking if anyone found a workaround.)
> 
> Otherwise I'm getting used to the handwriting, and I've sketched out some things in a short session that would never have been written if I had to boot up my desktop, turn on all the sound equipment, open Cubase or Sibelius, start thinking... The immediacy from StaffPad loading (3 seconds) to composing is really helping short circuit my procrastination.


I would go to their support page and open a ticket. They are very responsive during the weekdays at least. And I think they are in the UK so there is a time delay depending on where you live.





StaffPad Help







staffpad.zendesk.com





And your pint about the immediacy of StaffPad is what I love about it. I guess that is why I am so patient with it. But I still open a ticket


----------



## agarner32

Thanks for the information. I deleted the app and reinstalled. I am in the process of re-downloading Berlin strings after the message asking to download again for free. Hopefully this time will work.


----------



## Soundhound

Great! And chords, can you audition a chord you’ve drawn? How do you play all a phrase or bar or section? highlight and play or something? or do you place the cursor at a position and play from there? 





Eric G said:


> Yes so far. Drag it across the staff and you hear a short note or hit.


----------



## foxby

Eric G said:


> Yes. Write and touch.
> 
> Wow. That is a lot of detail. How is the playback?



Everything plays nice and as written … I use the Staffpad's piano for playback ...., wonder how the other one sounds...


----------



## gyprock

Soundhound said:


> Great! And chords, can you audition a chord you’ve drawn? How do you play all a phrase or bar or section? highlight and play or something? or do you place the cursor at a position and play from there?


The playback is frustrating. I'd also like to make a selection and only those tracks that have selected notes will play - much like Sibelius or Dorico. To solo/mute via the mixer doesn't work for me when in the midst of composition.

As for chords, what about selecting the 2nd note from the top and dropping it an octave to create a drop-2 voicing or any inversion for that matter.


----------



## agarner32

agarner32 said:


> Thanks for the information. I deleted the app and reinstalled. I am in the process of re-downloading Berlin strings after the message asking to download again for free. Hopefully this time will work.


It gets up to a certain point and restarts the download. The furthest I've gotten is 60%. Anyone have suggestions?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

As an educational tool, it’d be great if Staffpad made more sample scores available to learn from. What a great way to do score study to have the notes available and be able to solo parts.


----------



## Eric G

agarner32 said:


> It gets up to a certain point and restarts the download. The furthest I've gotten is 60%. Anyone have suggestions?


Yes. Create a support ticket.






StaffPad Help







staffpad.zendesk.com


----------



## agarner32

Eric G said:


> Yes. Create a support ticket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StaffPad Help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> staffpad.zendesk.com


Thanks Eric G. Hopefully they'll get back soon.


----------



## ChrisL

stevebarden said:


> I am correct that on iPad the scores can only be saved to iCloud and not the device? I can’t see any options for storage location and that will prevent the app from working unless connected to WiFi.


Just to be clear, files that are saved in your iCloud drive are saved locally to your iPad and then synced to the cloud when you have an internet connection. You can think of iCloud sort of like a mirror of the files that live on your local device.

I just double checked this with StaffPad and had no problem creating and editing a score while my iPad was in airplane mode.


----------



## stevebarden

ChrisL said:


> Just to be clear, files that are saved in your iCloud drive are saved locally to your iPad and then synced to the cloud when you have an internet connection. You can think of iCloud sort of like a mirror of the files that live on your local device.
> 
> I just double checked this with StaffPad and had no problem creating and editing a score while my iPad was in airplane mode.


Ok, thanks for clarifying. I stepped outside to sit in the backyard and lost internet connection and couldn’t open any scores. But just now I turned off my WiFi and everything works just fine. 🤷

Must have been a solar flare, lol.


----------



## gfcgfc

Eric G said:


> I can confirm Sul Pont and Con Sordino and Sul Tasto with Spitfire Symphonic Strings. I can't confirm with Chamber Strings as I haven't purchased it YET.



Staffpad team confirmed that the Chamber Strings have Sul Tasto and flautando "longs", and Sul Pont longs and tremolos, and con sordino longs and staccatos.


----------



## ridgero

Is there an actual articulation list of each sample library?

I like the sound of every single demo I have listened to so far. Especially the dynamics are brilliant.

Which do you like best?


----------



## dcoscina

I added Berlin Strings last night and gesus they sound amazing. What a rewarding experience to write notes down and have it played back with these quality samples. I’m stunned and elated. This is what I’ve been dreaming about for literally two decades now.


----------



## Cinebient

Sounds fantastic. I wish there would be a VST/AU (for mac) as well. This sound better than some 100+ GB sample libraries. Game Changer?


----------



## Mymind

Cinebient said:


> Sounds fantastic. I wish there would be a VST/AU (for mac) as well. This sound better than some 100+ GB sample libraries. Game Changer?


Definitely. The app is brilliant and it makes lot of dreams come true. Not everyone has access to an orchestra when composing but with this, it’s like you conduct and hear the result like a real one. I read a lot of complaint because of bugs but I am optimistic and I like the team. David and Matt are wonderful. More to come...


----------



## did

Mymind said:


> The app is brilliant and it makes lot of dreams come true


Hello Mymind
Just wanted to know if you're saying that in an "absolute" way, or comparative to other notation app. ?


----------



## Mymind

did said:


> Hello Mymind
> Just wanted to know if you're saying that in an "absolute" way, or comparative to other notation app. ?


Hi did,
Both but more absolute than relative. In absolute, I always had dreamed this kind of app since 2010. I mean composing with an pen (I used to use a little booklet and a pen when composing) and hearing the result like your music is played by a real orchestra. When using the app, I find evrything would be perfect without bugs and recognition issue (though I rarely have crash with my surface pro 4 and my handwriting is recognized 80% of the time which I consider a good point at this stage). In relative, I use sibelius but honestly, when having a melody in mind, the first thing I wanna do is to write it and depending on the time I have, I harmonize and orchestrate it. With sibelius, I must turn on my pc, wait, and then compose. Honestly, the way to compose music with mouse and keyboard makes me give up a lot of time. It’s a creativity killer in my opinion (at least in my case). With staffpad, I can write immediately my music, orchestrate it and I can do it all along the day. I find the ergonomic and simplicity of the app very good that I forget sometimes the technology behind it.


----------



## Eric G

Mymind said:


> Hi did,
> Both but more absolute than relative. In absolute, I always had dreamed this kind of app since 2010. I mean composing with an pen (I used to use a little booklet and a pen when composing) and hearing the result like your music is played by a real orchestra. When using the app, I find evrything would be perfect without bugs and recognition issue (though I rarely have crash with my surface pro 4 and my handwriting is recognized 80% of the time which I consider a good point at this stage). In relative, I use sibelius but honestly, when having a melody in mind, the first thing I wanna do is to write it and depending on the time I have, I harmonize and orchestrate it. With sibelius, I must turn on my pc, wait, and then compose. Honestly, the way to compose music with mouse and keyboard makes me give up a lot of time. It’s a creativity killer in my opinion (at least in my case). With staffpad, I can write immediately my music, orchestrate it and I can do it all along the day. I find the ergonomic and simplicity of the app very good that I forget sometimes the technology behind it.



Exactly. And this may seem radical but my 88 key Keyboard has been unplugged since I have been using StaffPad.


----------



## Michael Antrum

This app begs the question....

Is that an orchestra in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me...?


----------



## Jim Martin

Anyone using this on a 1st gen iPad Pro 12.9-inch? The very first iPad Pro released back in 2015. Curious how the 1st gen iPad Pro performs with this software/libraries. I really don't want to upgrade to the latest Pro and don't want to drop $100 just to find out it won't perform well.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I’m running a 9.7“ iPad Pro 1st gen. The only issue I am having is a few crashes when using the lasso tool. Otherwise it seems quick enough.
I’m only using the stock libraries at the moment though.


----------



## Mishabou

Jim Martin said:


> Anyone using this on a 1st gen iPad Pro 12.9-inch? The very first iPad Pro released back in 2015. Curious how the 1st gen iPad Pro performs with this software/libraries. I really don't want to upgrade to the latest Pro and don't want to drop $100 just to find out it won't perform well.



Would love to find out also.

As for the pen will the iPad Pro 12.9 1st gen work with a Gen2 pen or only Gen1 ?


----------



## Jim Martin

Michael Antrum said:


> I’m running a 9.7“ iPad Pro 1st gen. The only issue I am having is a few crashes when using the lasso tool. Otherwise it seems quick enough.
> I’m only using the stock libraries at the moment though.



Good to know! I will give it a shot.



Mishabou said:


> Would love to find out also.
> 
> As for the pen will the iPad Pro 12.9 1st gen work with a Gen2 pen or only Gen1 ?



Gen2 pen only works with the latest models.


----------



## Kanter

In keeping with the IPad inquiries above- I run Staffpad on a 15" Surface Book 2 "maxxed out", I will spare you the ravings.
For some on-the-go chores, I would like to *cheaply* procure a Surface "X" (read: 3-7) tablet (12,3" I believe) that will handle Staffpad operation plus whatever add-on librairies I can muster (working with Berlin First Chairs so far, great!). 
What configuration is being used that handles the job adequately? i7 I assume, is 16 GB RAM necessary? Any significant performance jumps in the Surface tablets generations? Thanks!


----------



## micrologus

agarner32 said:


> It gets up to a certain point and restarts the download. The furthest I've gotten is 60%. Anyone have suggestions?


I downloaded the OT Woodwinds quickly, but I can't download the OT Brass! Same problem.


----------



## micrologus

Jim Martin said:


> Anyone using this on a 1st gen iPad Pro 12.9-inch? The very first iPad Pro released back in 2015. Curious how the 1st gen iPad Pro performs with this software/libraries. I really don't want to upgrade to the latest Pro and don't want to drop $100 just to find out it won't perform well.


Yes, iPad Pro 1st gen. It works!


----------



## ridgero

Could someone please do a comparison between the libraries, since there is no detailed information about it at all? Thanks!


----------



## dcoscina

Jim Martin said:


> Anyone using this on a 1st gen iPad Pro 12.9-inch? The very first iPad Pro released back in 2015. Curious how the 1st gen iPad Pro performs with this software/libraries. I really don't want to upgrade to the latest Pro and don't want to drop $100 just to find out it won't perform well.


The Air 3 is fine so far for me. I’ve not noticed any issues thus far


----------



## Eric G

ridgero said:


> Could someone please do a comparison between the libraries, since there is no detailed information about it at all? Thanks!


I gave my impressions earlier in the thread. I have all the String, Brass and WW libraries.


----------



## bengoss

Is there a trial period? I have notion. Is this much much better?


----------



## giwro

This is a quick demo with the Spitfire Symphonic Strings in-app purchase... I imported a music XML file of a string arrangement I made years ago, and after some tidying up, this is the result. Do note this is just the dynamics in the score, I didn’t play with the draw-in curves at all, and the ritards are simply tempo changes in the score.

I was struck with how easy this was, and also how expressive the score sounds with no extra tweaking. In this demo you’ll hear the portamento as well as pizz and con sordino. Sheer magic...

And, 20 years after this little exercise was arranged I get to hear it played by world-class musicians.

I fear for my wallet... this is my first in-app add-on purchase, and I’m smitten.


----------



## Eric G

giwro said:


> This is a quick demo with the Spitfire Symphonic Strings in-app purchase... I imported a music XML file of a string arrangement I made years ago, and after some tidying up, this is the result. Do note this is just the dynamics in the score, I didn’t play with the draw-in curves at all, and the ritards are simply tempo changes in the score.
> 
> I was struck with how easy this was, and also how expressive the score sounds with no extra tweaking. In this demo you’ll hear the portamento as well as pizz and con sordino. Sheer magic...
> 
> And, 20 years after this little exercise was arranged I get to hear it played by world-class musicians.
> 
> I fear for my wallet... this is my first in-app add-on purchase, and I’m smitten.



Yep, You are in trouble . Sounds great.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

bengoss said:


> Is there a trial period? I have notion. Is this much much better?



There is no trial period that I am aware of.

Is it better than Notion? That depends on what you mean by "better": it has worse handwriting recognition than Notion (in my opinion), but the playback-- especially with the addition of 3rd-party sample libraries-- is significantly better. The overall UI/UX is in my opinion superior to Notion, but that's largely a matter of opinion, so I can't speak on it super authoritatively.

So its a question of what features are important to you.


----------



## Mymind

giwro said:


> This is a quick demo with the Spitfire Symphonic Strings in-app purchase... I imported a music XML file of a string arrangement I made years ago, and after some tidying up, this is the result. Do note this is just the dynamics in the score, I didn’t play with the draw-in curves at all, and the ritards are simply tempo changes in the score.
> 
> I was struck with how easy this was, and also how expressive the score sounds with no extra tweaking. In this demo you’ll hear the portamento as well as pizz and con sordino. Sheer magic...
> 
> And, 20 years after this little exercise was arranged I get to hear it played by world-class musicians.
> 
> I fear for my wallet... this is my first in-app add-on purchase, and I’m smitten.



Wonderful! Would love to hear it with berlin strings orchestra and also the first chairs.


----------



## fahresatch

Jim Martin said:


> Anyone using this on a 1st gen iPad Pro 12.9-inch? The very first iPad Pro released back in 2015. Curious how the 1st gen iPad Pro performs with this software/libraries. I really don't want to upgrade to the latest Pro and don't want to drop $100 just to find out it won't perform well.


I'm using Staffpad on the 1st gen iPad Pro 12.9". I love it, total game changer for me too! The only thing performance wise is that when the page is chock full of notes there are some audio dropouts here and there. It's small and rather rare and def not enough to ruin the benefits of this amazing app. I'm sure on a newer iPad it runs smooth as butter. I too have not touched my keyboard in a month and I've accelerated my learning and understanding of orchestration ten fold thanks to this app!


----------



## toomanynotes

I’m happy with Notion, even if it had Gm midi sounds. A live orchestra just need notes to read.


----------



## dcoscina

toomanynotes said:


> I’m happy with Notion, even if it had Gm midi sounds. A live orchestra just need notes to read.


For the record Notion was the first notation program to have its own custom samples recorded by the London Symphony Orchestra. Of course this is 2005 technology and for the sake of space they heavily compressed the samples but it never used GM sounds either in its desktop or iOS incarnations.

ive used Notion since it’s inception and have composed full concert works, ads, and radio show intros on it (tho all of the finished work got sent to DAWs and larger same
Libraries). It’s interface is still very good and fast. However, Staffpad wins by its playback and ability to change things inside the bar with ease. Staffpad even tops Dorico for the editing ease of use for me. And the playback using OT libraries is
Heavenly. Like so many here, I’ve barely touched my keyboards and DAWs since I got Staffpad. Composing directly into the iPad is a delight and hearing it back with world class samples and expressive performance (something every other notation program has its challenges with) is a revelation


----------



## toomanynotes

dcoscina said:


> For the record Notion was the first notation program to have its own custom samples recorded by the London Symphony Orchestra. Of course this is 2005 technology and for the sake of space they heavily compressed the samples but it never used GM sounds either in its desktop or iOS incarnations.
> 
> ive used Notion since it’s inception and have composed full concert works, ads, and radio show intros on it (tho all of the finished work got sent to DAWs and larger same
> Libraries). It’s interface is still very good and fast. However, Staffpad wins by its playback and ability to change things inside the bar with ease. Staffpad even tops Dorico for the editing ease of use for me. And the playback using OT libraries is
> Heavenly. Like so many here, I’ve barely touched my keyboards and DAWs since I got Staffpad. Composing directly into the iPad is a delight and hearing it back with world class samples and expressive performance (something every other notation program has its challenges with) is a revelation


Sorry i didn’t realise how a sentence can have 2 meanings..i’m with you, what i meant was, Even if it came with gm sounds i would still use Notion! Pretty sure that was what i wrote. 😋


----------



## toomanynotes

dcoscina said:


> Like so many here, I’ve barely touched my keyboards and DAWs since I got Staffpad. Composing directly into the iPad is a delight and hearing it back with world class samples and expressive performance (something every other notation program has its challenges with) is a revelation


i felt the same way using notion ios...so what your saying is, you no longer have the need for daw because the sounds are good enough?
Also how easy is it to move from Notion ios to staffpad?


----------



## zolhof

3.0.8.0 update is live, it seems to have fixed the copy issue, at least I can't make it crash anymore.

Love this thing! And just an FYI, if you can't ju$tify upgrading your iPad/Surface for a single app, StaffPad works great with any device that supports active pen and touch. I'm using a Wacom Intuos5 Touch that I had for drawing CC in Cubase, you have all the benefits of a graphic drawing table like physical buttons, touch ring and custom radial menus (think Stream Deck at your fingertips) and overall great writing experience. My only issue so far is that the horizontal scroll isn't working so I have to use the mouse for that. Support is aware and looking into it. Vertical scroll and pinch to zoom are fine though. And best of all, no performance issues, no matter how busy a score gets.

A friend recommended a cheap Lenovo Yoga for StaffPad and I'm thinking about it. It would be cool to leave the desk and continue writing somewhere else, or vice versa. Anyone here using this type of 2-in-1 laptop?


----------



## gfcgfc

toomanynotes said:


> i felt the same way using notion ios...so what your saying is, you no longer have the need for daw because the sounds are good enough?
> Also how easy is it to move from Notion ios to staffpad?



Extremely easy; just a couple of days to become familiar with hadwriting recognition idiosyncrasies. I'm also going back and forth using MusicXML; you only have to pay attenion to add dynamics marking only as a final step (they are not exported by musicxml).

As for the quality of playback, I can only get something similar to staffpad+OT orchestra (just pressing "play"): 
- using Notion with OT libraries on a mac with tons of "custom rules"definition and testing and ad-hoc "preset" definition in kontakt
- composing in a daw with premium libraries.

You can't get rid of a daw if you would like to finalize your composition with a mastering phase, but exporting sections as audio from staffpad, loading 5/6 audio files in a daw and master the final product is quite easy.

To me the real difference with Notion is that the quality of playback and the quality of "integration" of the premium libraries with score instructions. This makes composition on ipad a straightforward experience.

As a composition tool, Notion is not bad at all, but some very bad stock sounds, the lack of legato transition and expecially the lack of round robins (machine gun everywhere) kill the playback experience (particularly on ipad).


----------



## dcoscina

gfcgfc said:


> Extremely easy; just a couple of days to become familiar with hadwriting recognition idiosyncrasies. I'm also going back and forth using MusicXML; you only have to pay attenion to add dynamics marking only as a final step (they are not exported by musicxml).
> 
> As for the quality of playback, I can only get something similar to staffpad+OT orchestra (just pressing "play"):
> - using Notion with OT libraries on a mac with tons of "custom rules"definition and testing and ad-hoc "preset" definition in kontakt
> - composing in a daw with premium libraries.
> 
> You can't get rid of a daw if you would like to finalize your composition with a mastering phase, but exporting sections as audio from staffpad, loading 5/6 audio files in a daw and master the final product is quite easy.
> 
> To me the real difference with Notion is that the quality of playback and the quality of "integration" of the premium libraries with score instructions. This makes composition on ipad a straightforward experience.
> 
> As a composition tool, Notion is not bad at all, but some very bad stock sounds, the lack of legato transition and expecially the lack of round robins (machine gun everywhere) kill the playback experience (particularly on ipad).


Yes I totally agree. The playback on iOS is functional and that’s it. Never meant as final recording in the least. It’s fine on my iPhone when I want to jot down an idea but I’ve barely used it since Presonus stopped regular updates a couple years back. I know they just came out with a maintenance update and have planned something “big” but I don’t know if it can top Staffpad. Probably not.


----------



## Nickie Fønshauge

gfcgfc said:


> ... I'm also going back and forth using MusicXML; you only have to pay attenion to add dynamics marking only as a final step (they are not exported by musicxml) ...


That depends on the program you export from. Dorico - and apparently also Cubase - does export dynamics markings.


----------



## gfcgfc

Nickie Fønshauge said:


> That depends on the program you export from. Dorico - and apparently also Cubase - does export dynamics markings.



True. I was referring to Notion (until last update probably).


----------



## giwro

Mymind said:


> Wonderful! Would love to hear it with berlin strings orchestra and also the first chairs.


Well, I’m being careful how much money I drop on this all the sudden... but it has altered how I want to spend money on samples. Glad you enjoyed it


----------



## did

Mymind said:


> Hi did,
> Both but more absolute than relative. In absolute, I always had dreamed this kind of app since 2010. I mean composing with an pen (I used to use a little booklet and a pen when composing) and hearing the result like your music is played by a real orchestra. When using the app, I find evrything would be perfect without bugs and recognition issue (though I rarely have crash with my surface pro 4 and my handwriting is recognized 80% of the time which I consider a good point at this stage). In relative, I use sibelius but honestly, when having a melody in mind, the first thing I wanna do is to write it and depending on the time I have, I harmonize and orchestrate it. With sibelius, I must turn on my pc, wait, and then compose. Honestly, the way to compose music with mouse and keyboard makes me give up a lot of time. It’s a creativity killer in my opinion (at least in my case). With staffpad, I can write immediately my music, orchestrate it and I can do it all along the day. I find the ergonomic and simplicity of the app very good that I forget sometimes the technology behind it.


Thanks for the answer. I'm using StaffPad since more than one year and I agree with you with all you've said(except that for me the new version freeze regularly as that the other did not (I'm on surface pro 4 too), but let 's the developpers do their job, this is a new version  So I'm working with staff to write music, but always import (or re-write) in logic to use "classical" sample libraies such as Spitfire, OT...And in fact I wonder if the results could be better (I'm speaking here only about Berlin Strings) in staff pad than in the "classical" library. Perhaps the differents artculations, nuances, could be more realistics in Staff pad ? I'm saying that because I'm relly impressed with the Berlin demo, very "alive" and realistic to my taste...


----------



## micrologus

has anyone managed to download the OT Brass library? I'm trying and trying but it doesn't work...


----------



## jonathanparham

giwro said:


> This is a quick demo with the Spitfire Symphonic Strings in-app purchase... I imported a music XML file of a string arrangement I made years ago, and after some tidying up, this is the result. Do note this is just the dynamics in the score, I didn’t play with the draw-in curves at all, and the ritards are simply tempo changes in the score.
> 
> I was struck with how easy this was, and also how expressive the score sounds with no extra tweaking. In this demo you’ll hear the portamento as well as pizz and con sordino. Sheer magic...
> 
> And, 20 years after this little exercise was arranged I get to hear it played by world-class musicians.
> 
> I fear for my wallet... this is my first in-app add-on purchase, and I’m smitten.



Nice arrangement. Bar 40 till the end is impressive regarding the dynamics and pace.


----------



## Eric G

micrologus said:


> has anyone managed to download the OT Brass library? I'm trying and trying but it doesn't work...


Yes I have all the OT Libraries. I have only had one download problem and that is with CineSamples Harps on PC. 

Open a Support Ticket, they are very responsive.





StaffPad Help







staffpad.zendesk.com


----------



## micrologus

Eric G said:


> Yes I have all the OT Libraries. I have only had one download problem and that is with CineSamples Harps on PC.
> 
> Open a Support Ticket, they are very responsive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StaffPad Help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> staffpad.zendesk.com



thank you. I’m in contact with David, staffpad zendesk.


----------



## Kanter

zolhof said:


> A friend recommended a cheap Lenovo Yoga for StaffPad and I'm thinking about it. It would be cool to leave the desk and continue writing somewhere else, or vice versa. Anyone here using this type of 2-in-1 laptop?



before i moved on the the surface book2, I ran staffpad on a yoga 14' convertible. A little less screen estate than the SB2, also you could only fold back the screen for writing on it, rather than detach it, as the SB can... but the performance was very good, I had the specs pretty maxxed out though (i7 etc)


----------



## giwro

jonathanparham said:


> Nice arrangement. Bar 40 till the end is impressive regarding the dynamics and pace.


Thanks, appreciate it...

Just for reference - a recording of the live performance (apologies for some background noise, and the acoustics of the room really boosted the low frequencies) 
This is just 2-2-2-2-1... a really decent ensemble for such a small number of players.


----------



## Mymind

giwro said:


> Thanks, appreciate it...
> 
> Just for reference - a recording of the live performance (apologies for some background noise, and the acoustics of the room really boosted the low frequencies)
> This is just 2-2-2-2-1... a really decent ensemble for such a small number of players.



Beautiful


----------



## Eric G

Ok. I really wanted to test out StaffPad so I wrote this full orchestral track using Spitfire WW and Strings + CineBrass + CinePerc + VOXOS. I wanted test a pp to ff dynamic range single instrument to full Tutti and library mixing and a fast tempo 125 bpm. I would never publish without separate track mixing and mastering but I thought everyone might want to hear straight out of StaffPad with as much leveling/mixing I could do without exporting STEMS to Cubase/ProTools. P.S. It was an absolute joy to write.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

Eric G said:


> Ok. I really wanted to test out StaffPad so I wrote this full orchestral track using Spitfire WW and Strings + CineBrass + CinePerc + VOXOS. I wanted test a pp to ff dynamic range single instrument to full Tutti and library mixing and a fast tempo 125 bpm. I would never publish without separate track mixing and mastering but I thought everyone might want to hear straight out of StaffPad with as much leveling/mixing I could do without exporting STEMS to Cubase/ProTools. P.S. It was an absolute joy to write.



Wow... very nice 👍


----------



## bvaughn0402

What do any of you do if it seems that it doesn't recognize any of your notes and the staff turns orange?


----------



## Eric G

bvaughn0402 said:


> What do any of you do if it seems that it doesn't recognize any of your notes and the staff turns orange?


I think that means you are in "Copy" mode and it is waiting for you to double click on another bar to copy into.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I believe the bar turns orange when your handwriting hasn’t been recognized and yellow in copy mode. At least on the iPad. The only solution right now that I’ve found to orange is to erase everything in the bar and start over, one note at a time (write, tap out so it recognizes, repeat). Quite a slow process at the moment so hopefully they improve this as it really kills the workflow. I’d love if they also add a simple piano keyboard - I currently have another app that I switch back and forth with (if I’m not sitting at my piano).


----------



## bvaughn0402

I think it is not recognizing handwriting (iPad). I will try that, so thanks! It is weird because it will recognize a lot, then suddenly won't (for something I think it should easily).

Another thing I've done is copy things so I have the notes to move around.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Does anyone master how to use the slurs? Any good tips and tricks?
The slur that connects 2 notes with same pitch I find very difficult to draw :-/.

Here is an other short demo with some fast string runs...


----------



## Mymind

OleJoergensen said:


> Does anyone master how to use the slurs? Any good tips and tricks?
> The slur that connects 2 notes with same pitch I find very difficult to draw :-/.
> 
> Here is an other short demo with some fast string runs...



Very beautiful. 
Did you modify the expression curve or just the written dynamics?


----------



## Nickie Fønshauge

OleJoergensen said:


> Does anyone master how to use the slurs? Any good tips and tricks?
> The slur that connects 2 notes with same pitch I find very difficult to draw :-/.


If you by that mean a tie, where the second note is just an unarticulated extension of the first, you have to begin and end the tie BETWEEN the notes. If you begin and end above or below the notes you get a slur, where the second note is articulated. An easy way to test which one you wrote is to place the pencil on the slur/tie. If it turns blue and you can move it around it's a slur, otherwise it's a tie.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Mymind said:


> Very beautiful.
> Did you modify the expression curve or just the written dynamics?


Thank you  
I draw the expression curve in. i think theres is to big jump among p- mf- f etc.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Nickie Fønshauge said:


> If you by that mean a tie, where the second note is just an unarticulated extension of the first, you have to begin and end the tie BETWEEN the notes. If you begin and end above or below the notes you get a slur, where the second note is articulated. An easy way to test which one you wrote is to place the pencil on the slur/tie. If it turns blue and you can move it around it's a slur, otherwise it's a tie.


Thank you Nickie.
yes, I meant a tie. I didn’t know about the color difference, I will check that out.
I do see the difference but Staffpad does not recognize my tie. I have to try 5-10 times.
I must practice that one.


----------



## Nickie Fønshauge

I find that if I begin and end a tie between and close to the noteheads it usually works. But, I just did a bit more testing and it doesn't even have to be close to the notes. Or very long. Shallow might help, though. If I make it too curved it tends to become a slur instead.


----------



## dcoscina

Nickie Fønshauge said:


> I find that if I begin and end a tie between and close to the noteheads it usually works. But, I just did a bit more testing and it doesn't even have to be close to the notes. Or very long. Shallow might help, though. If I make it too curved it tends to become a slur instead.


Thanks for the tip. I was also finding this with the horns when I tried to tie them.


----------



## zolhof

Kanter said:


> before i moved on the the surface book2, I ran staffpad on a yoga 14' convertible. A little less screen estate than the SB2, also you could only fold back the screen for writing on it, rather than detach it, as the SB can... but the performance was very good, I had the specs pretty maxxed out though (i7 etc)



Thanks, that makes sense, I just saw some pictures and it does not look like something I'd use on my lap. How about the actual writing detection, was it good? Could you also scroll in all directions and zoom like you do in the SB2?


----------



## zolhof

OleJoergensen said:


> Does anyone master how to use the slurs? Any good tips and tricks?
> The slur that connects 2 notes with same pitch I find very difficult to draw :-/.



Hi Ole, I find it easier when I drag the notes closer. The same applies to slurs, especially distant notes, it's easier to actually move the line afterward instead of drawing it. I recorded a few examples for you. 




I'm having trouble writing sextuplets, I can't get the bracket to cover all notes. It works fine with quintuplets or anything higher than six notes. Any suggestions or is it a known issue?


----------



## Nickie Fønshauge

OleJoergensen said:


> Does anyone master how to use the slurs? Any good tips and tricks?
> The slur that connects 2 notes with same pitch I find very difficult to draw :-/.
> 
> Here is an other short demo with some fast string runs...



Lovely. I'm getting more and more hooked on those Berlin Strings. They have a nice classical sound.


----------



## Nickie Fønshauge

zolhof said:


> I'm having trouble writing sextuplets, I can't get the bracket to cover all notes. It works fine with quintuplets or anything higher than six notes. Any suggestions or is it a known issue?


I can't make it work in 2/2 either but it does work in 2/4. If you write all the 16th notes in 2/4 (without specifying a sextuplet) the sextuplet gets created automatically. You can then change the meter to 2/2. A bit clumsy but it works.


----------



## Kanter

zolhof said:


> Thanks, that makes sense, I just saw some pictures and it does not look like something I'd use on my lap. How about the actual writing detection, was it good? Could you also scroll in all directions and zoom like you do in the SB2?


yes, functionally equivalent to the surface brethren in all respects, as with MS you needed a very specific lenovo active pen model
at the time I had preferred it over the surface for the connectivity (numerous vs 1 usb port etc)


----------



## ridgero

Nickie Fønshauge said:


> Lovely. I'm getting more and more hooked on those Berlin Strings. They have a nice classical sound.



Con Sordino / Flautando?


----------



## zolhof

Nickie Fønshauge said:


> I can't make it work in 2/2 either but it does work in 2/4. If you write all the 16th notes in 2/4 (without specifying a sextuplet) the sextuplet gets created automatically. You can then change the meter to 2/2. A bit clumsy but it works.



That worked like a charm, thanks a lot! I had this reported to Matt and I'll let him know about your workaround. It seems to only work in x/4 meters.


----------



## stevebarden

Nickie Fønshauge said:


> If you by that mean a tie, where the second note is just an unarticulated extension of the first, you have to begin and end the tie BETWEEN the notes. If you begin and end above or below the notes you get a slur, where the second note is articulated. An easy way to test which one you wrote is to place the pencil on the slur/tie. If it turns blue and you can move it around it's a slur, otherwise it's a tie.


I found the best way is to draw the first note, draw the tie, then draw the tied note. I think StaffPad understands intention based on the order of ink strokes.


----------



## Nickie Fønshauge

ridgero said:


> Con Sordino / Flautando?


Sorry, haven't bought them meself - yet - but the Kontakt version has Con sordino emulated with a filter. I suppose the same goes for the Staffpad version. Don't know about flautando.


----------



## dcoscina

I composed a short intro for a podcast I'm hosting using Staffpad and Berlin Brass (2 horns), Harp (stock), and Berlin Strings. I'm elated by how easy it is to jot down and develop ideas on it. Yeah, the ink recognition is funny sometimes and doesn't help work flow but I'm adaptable (and patient) and know what I can and cannot do with it.


----------



## Eric G

dcoscina said:


> I composed a short intro for a podcast I'm hosting using Staffpad and Berlin Brass (2 horns), Harp (stock), and Berlin Strings. I'm elated by how easy it is to jot down and develop ideas on it. Yeah, the ink recognition is funny sometimes and doesn't help work flow but I'm adaptable (and patient) and know what I can and cannot do with it.



Well done!


----------



## Dave Connor

Does working on even the biggest iPad seem to be workable mainly for sketching a few lines or doing small arrangements such as the strings pieces we are seeing here? Is a full orchestra score out of the question for practical reasons on that small a screen?


----------



## dcoscina

Dave Connor said:


> Does working on even the biggest iPad seem to be workable mainly for sketching a few lines or doing small arrangements such as the strings pieces we are seeing here? Is a full orchestra score out of the question for practical reasons on that small a screen?


I use an iPad Air3 which has a 10.5" display and I've imported massive orchestra files. It does require pinching and zooming but I don't have an issue with it. Then again, I'm mostly working on concert works and not tight deadline music pieces with Staffpad so I'm not a good indicator of how the workflow is within a professional world context.


----------



## Dave Connor

dcoscina said:


> I use an iPad Air3 which has a 10.5" display and I've imported massive orchestra files. It does require pinching and zooming but I don't have an issue with it. Then again, I'm mostly working on concert works and not tight deadline music pieces with Staffpad so I'm not a good indicator of how the workflow is within a professional world context.


Actually it would be for outright composing. My professional work (often in midi) is usually sent to a copyist or I bang it out in Sibelius. The idea of sitting and composing not tethered to my studio but as I would at a desk or piano (while also having export capabilities) is what makes this approach attractive to me.


----------



## Dave Connor

Eric G said:


> I guess I am just lucky. I have had no major issues on IPad or PC.
> 
> No more than I do with (Dorico/Cubase/Sibelius) or other music production software. Maybe that is why I am so optimistic about StaffPad. Below is HEAVEN for ME. Apologies if the picture isn't clear because of the brightness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surface Studio 32" monitor (generation 1) running a full orchestra template on StaffPad. (And no I have no palm issues)


So you are using the StaffPad app with a 32" monitor with writing capability? I have only seen 28" monitors from Surface Studio. Would you explain a little more.


----------



## Eric G

Dave Connor said:


> So you are using the StaffPad app with a 32" monitor with writing capability? I have only seen 28" monitors from Surface Studio. Would you explain a little more.


Yes 28" Surface Studio. Pinch to Zoom. Full Tilt. Surface Pen Writing with StaffPad. So far, I haven't used a keyboard.










Full Orchestral (25+ instruments)music I wrote with a Surface Pen this weekend (above). Straight out of StaffPad no mixing or mastering.


----------



## OleJoergensen

zolhof said:


> Hi Ole, I find it easier when I drag the notes closer. The same applies to slurs, especially distant notes, it's easier to actually move the line afterward instead of drawing it. I recorded a few examples for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having trouble writing sextuplets, I can't get the bracket to cover all notes. It works fine with quintuplets or anything higher than six notes. Any suggestions or is it a known issue?



Thank you for these videos, its a great help! I will try that out.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Nickie Fønshauge said:


> I find that if I begin and end a tie between and close to the noteheads it usually works. But, I just did a bit more testing and it doesn't even have to be close to the notes. Or very long. Shallow might help, though. If I make it too curved it tends to become a slur instead.


Thank you for the help Nickei, I will try it al .
I also like Berlin Strings a lot for classical music. 
I think Spitfire chamber strings aslo will be good for classical music, I heard a demo somewhere there sounded good. Spitfire chamber strings has a bit more bit then Berlin Strings.


----------



## OleJoergensen

dcoscina said:


> I composed a short intro for a podcast I'm hosting using Staffpad and Berlin Brass (2 horns), Harp (stock), and Berlin Strings. I'm elated by how easy it is to jot down and develop ideas on it. Yeah, the ink recognition is funny sometimes and doesn't help work flow but I'm adaptable (and patient) and know what I can and cannot do with it.



Sounds lovely! A part of it reminds me of Barrington Pheluong.


----------



## Dave Connor

Eric G said:


> Yes 28" Surface Studio. Pinch to Zoom. Full Tilt. Surface Pen Writing with StaffPad. So far, I haven't used a keyboard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full Orchestral (25+ instruments)music I wrote with a Surface Pen this weekend (above). Straight out of StaffPad no mixing or mastering.


Thank you very much and nice work. That seems like the way to go. I’m completely happy with pencil and paper and prefer it actually but it leaves you with a big step in between if (with large orchestral scores anyway) you want to get it into midi or notation.


----------



## Eric G

Dave Connor said:


> Thank you very much and nice work. That seems like the way to go. I’m completely happy with pencil and paper and prefer it actually but it leaves you with a big step in between if (with large orchestral scores anyway) you want to get it into midi or notation.



My Surface Studio is Generation 1 with 32GB or RAM and 1TB SSD and I think you can still get Gen 1 on Amazon. So you don't have to pay for a brand new SS 2.

Also note that StaffPad has a lot of warts right now (many of them mentioned on this thread), but I am betting on the future. If you are willing to be patient the future is right around the corner.


----------



## giwro

After a long session last night, I think I'm beginning to see my use for this as follows:

- A sketch pad when I'm on the road... great way to capture melodies and ideas in the moment​- A way to get a really decent mockup without fussing with CCs in a DAW​​At this point, I can enter stuff SO much faster in Finale or Dorico that it doesn't make sense for me to use it as a go-to for scoring. If I can get a decent XML export/import, I can live with that, and simply bring stuff in that way. I can easily get a basic idea of sound and balance with Dorico and Noteperformer, then export here and get a better render. Could I get a "better" render exporting MIDI from Finale/Dorico and tweaking in a DAW with the full-size versions of these samples? Yes, probably. But I just want to write music and have a good mockup, life is too short to spend futzing with CCs in a DAW. 

Plus, as Eric and others have mentioned, once it gets STEM export, I can (and will) do some further mixing in a DAW - I can see how something like that would make a good product even better.


----------



## stevebarden

I downloaded my first 3rd party library today, Spitfire Strings. I encountered a weird glitch. There is a popping sound in the example below jumping from the C to the F#. It happens at any dynamic level. This only occurs in the 1st violins when muted. The same figure played by the second violins muted does not occur. Non-muted strings are all fine. I’ve also tried slurring the notes. 

Is there an issue with the sample library or possibly the playback engine?


----------



## dcoscina

The playback has its glitches for me in Berlin Brass. I just work around it for now. I figure it’s a very young app in iOS land and they will need to sort out some stuff


----------



## jadi

Hello, I own a 12,9 ipad first generation with apple pencil 1. The program is working all right for me, but the lasso I can’t get to work. It seems it is glitching when I set the pen on the screen and therefore doesn’t make a proper selection. Anybody the same problem? And maybe a solution?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Are you pressing the lassoo icon before you draw the lassoo ?


----------



## Mymind

Guys, on 1 minute 07 sec on this video, David says that this demo score is included in the app (Snow Falling score) but I can’t find it within my app (on surface pro 4). Do you have this score within your app? I did not purchase the app recently as I had it already on my surface but I just updated it.


----------



## Dave Connor

Eric G said:


> My Surface Studio is Generation 1 with 32GB or RAM and 1TB SSD and I think you can still get Gen 1 on Amazon. So you don't have to pay for a brand new SS 2.
> 
> Also note that StaffPad has a lot of warts right now (many of them mentioned on this thread), but I am betting on the future. If you are willing to be patient the future is right around the corner.


Thanks for that. I looked at the largest iPad Pro which seems to me would be good for the sizes we are seeing here such as divided strings. I’m left handed and that is a factor on such a small screen. I also checked out the Lenovo 27“ which was impressive although I wasn’t able to demo writing on it which was excellent on the iPad. I think someone mentioned the Lenovo here. Any reason to avoid those? $2400 new at Best Buy which has the Surface Studio on sale for $3400 right now.


----------



## dcoscina

Dave Connor said:


> Thanks for that. I looked at the largest iPad Pro which seems to me would be good for the sizes we are seeing here such as divided strings. I’m left handed and that is a factor on such a small screen. I also checked out the Lenovo 27“ which was impressive although I wasn’t able to demo writing on it which was excellent on the iPad. I think someone mentioned the Lenovo here. Any reason to avoid those? $2400 new at Best Buy which has the Surface Studio on sale for $3400 right now.


I’m a leftie as well. I’m using a 10.5” iPad Air 3 and not finding too many difficulties with workflow yet. Once in a while I will get the left menu popping up when I palm is moving around but nothing too detrimental


----------



## giwro

Has anyone tried the Spitfire organ for StaffPad? I'm kind of picky about sampled organ sound (I've sampled 3 complete organs myself for Hauptwerk)... I'm tempted to spring for it at $29, but it would be nice to have more information....


----------



## micrologus

giwro said:


> Has anyone tried the Spitfire organ for StaffPad? I'm kind of picky about sampled organ sound (I've sampled 3 complete organs myself for Hauptwerk)... I'm tempted to spring for it at $29, but it would be nice to have more information....




So I can change the stops, but I don't know if I can play simultaneously more stops.


----------



## jadi

Michael Antrum said:


> Are you pressing the lassoo icon before you draw the lassoo ?



Don’t do that and try to keep it still but for me only works correct for about 30 percent


----------



## giwro

micrologus said:


> So I can change the stops, but I don't know if I can play simultaneously more stops.



Thanks!

I’d probably not use it on its own, but it sounds like it would work ok with other instruments blazing away.


----------



## Eric G

Dave Connor said:


> Thanks for that. I looked at the largest iPad Pro which seems to me would be good for the sizes we are seeing here such as divided strings. I’m left handed and that is a factor on such a small screen. I also checked out the Lenovo 27“ which was impressive although I wasn’t able to demo writing on it which was excellent on the iPad. I think someone mentioned the Lenovo here. Any reason to avoid those? $2400 new at Best Buy which has the Surface Studio on sale for $3400 right now.



As long as Windows Ink works with a Lenovo you should be good. Also if you are going to use a large touch screen you may want to get a two finger artist glove. Its what I use and it prevents any unwanted activation on the screen :


----------



## Eric G

Mymind said:


> Guys, on 1 minute 07 sec on this video, David says that this demo score is included in the app (Snow Falling score) but I can’t find it within my app (on surface pro 4). Do you have this score within your app? I did not purchase the app recently as I had it already on my surface but I just updated it.



I mentioned that to David and He sent it to me. I am sure he won't mind me sharing. Don't forget to change out the instruments to what you own.


----------



## Dave Connor

Eric G said:


> As long as Windows Ink works with a Lenovo you should be good. Also if you are going to use a large touch screen you may want to get a two finger artist glove. Its what I use and it prevents any unwanted activation on the screen :



Turns out the Lenovo is 32 pounds. The Surface Studio is 20. That’s a big factor for me so at some point hopefully I can get the latter.


----------



## Mymind

Eric G said:


> I mentioned that to David and He sent it to me. I am sure he won't mind me sharing. Don't forget to change out the instruments to what you own.


Thanks a lot Eric!
Are the other demos also available? I mean for example the two Elgar’s scores because I don’t have it also. 
Again thank you very much.


----------



## Eric G

Mymind said:


> Thanks a lot Eric!
> Are the other demos also available? I mean for example the two Elgar’s scores because I don’t have it also.
> Again thank you very much.



That's it. I think all the demos that are included are by David. 

Best thing to do is create a support ticket and ask. That's how I got the Snow Falling Demo.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Update for Berlin Strings 1.04

In the store in the Staffpad app I noticed there is an update for Berlin Strings. 
just info......


----------



## ridgero

Is there any list of the articulations? I still don't know which one to pick...


----------



## Tilt & Flow

OleJoergensen said:


> Update for Berlin Strings 1.04
> 
> In the store in the Staffpad app I noticed there is an update for Berlin Strings.
> just info......


Hmmm, not sure how to update. Store shows the update, I click to install, and then the app asks for another $99


----------



## OleJoergensen

Tilt & Flow said:


> Hmmm, not sure how to update. Store shows the update, I click to install, and then the app asks for another $99


You have to click, then it will ask you to log in and then tell you already have paid and ask if you want to download.


----------



## OleJoergensen

ridgero said:


> Is there any list of the articulations? I still don't know which one to pick...


I have not seen any list.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Prelude “Waves”.
A comparison between Staffpad core piano and Orchestral tools Berlin pianos.

Update: I needed it for other use....


----------



## Mymind

OleJoergensen said:


> Prelude “Waves”.
> A comparison between Staffpad core piano and Orchestral tools Berlin pianos.



Please stop! My wallet is suffering! (I am kidding 😄). I didn’t expect the piano third library would render as beautiful as this comparing to the stock piano. Though the stock piano is still very decent imho.


----------



## ridgero

I‘m impressed with the stock piano.


----------



## OleJoergensen

I aslo like the core piano but the sound is a bit tiny.


----------



## dcoscina

Tilt & Flow said:


> Hmmm, not sure how to update. Store shows the update, I click to install, and then the app asks for another $99


In iOS you select it, initially it will say “thanks you for your purchase” but shortly after a window will come up that says you’ve already purchased the product before and would you want to download for free. I did that last night and it was fine. Glad to see Staffpad is actively updating their product


----------



## Nickie Fønshauge

Ah. And I had just decided that the stock piano would be good enough for now. Bugger! 😢


----------



## Mymind

Would be perfect if staffpad could implement quantization capabilities.


----------



## stevebarden

Every once in a while I get this error when I open the app:






Then I get this error if I try to open a file:






Eventually it will work. Maybe StaffPad hasn’t had its morning coffee yet?


----------



## Tilt & Flow

dcoscina said:


> In iOS you select it, initially it will say “thanks you for your purchase” but shortly after a window will come up that says you’ve already purchased the product before and would you want to download for free. I did that last night and it was fine. Glad to see Staffpad is actively updating their product


Thank you! glad YOU were brave enough to click “Confirm pay” 🤩


----------



## dcoscina

Tilt & Flow said:


> Thank you! glad YOU were brave enough to click “Confirm pay” 🤩


yeah I had a mini heart attack when it said
"thank you for your purchase" but then the following window popped up moments after....


----------



## dcoscina

I did a little test composing something in Notion for iOS and then importing it over to Staffpad. It's pretty slick and fast using XML. For fast runs, it seems a better workflow for the time being. but I have to say I LOVE the immediacy of just jotting notes down in Staffpad. I've barely touched my keyboard and full blown sample libraries since I bought it last week. I even wrote a show theme on it while it was slow at work which I can use as the final recording with barely any tweaking. I could never do this in Dorico or Notion or any other notation program with significantly meddling with it. 

I love this app and I'm glad it's been actively developed and updated now that it's on iOS. I did start with it on Windows years back but it didn't seem ready for primetime then (and I hated working in Windows- sorry, just a personal gripe).

The best news is that my wife and family never know what to get me for birthdays. Now I can just say "Apple Store gift card!" and I can buy the other sample packs from Spitfire and CineSamples. Ultimate powaaaaaaaaaaaaa.


----------



## RDA

I've been working with Staffpad for one week now and its pretty much what i've been waiting for so freaking long! But there still are alot of problems and bugs that needs to be dealt with. Regarless of the handwriting issues, which magically went away after practicing writing, there are many bugs in the libraries. For instance, in Berlin Brass there is a HUGE volume difference between sustain and short articulations. Shorts are way louder than sustains, therefore (at least for Trombones & Horns) so writing with both is not really possible, i always need two tracks, one for sustains, one for shorts. Also, portamento is not really working, many transistions are not well programmed. Sometimes, the note right before a portamento will be kind of muted which isn't good at all. Thats not what you expect from a professional library. But anyway, these are problems that can be fixed and i hope that they will! I really like the overall system and so excited that i can finally compose good sounding orchestral pieces on iOS! CUDOS and now, back to work!


----------



## gfcgfc

RDA said:


> I've been working with Staffpad for one week now and its pretty much what i've been waiting for so freaking long! But there still are alot of problems and bugs that needs to be dealt with. Regarless of the handwriting issues, which magically went away after practicing writing, there are many bugs in the libraries. For instance, in Berlin Brass there is a HUGE volume difference between sustain and short articulations. Shorts are way louder than sustains, therefore (at least for Trombones & Horns) so writing with both is not really possible, i always need two tracks, one for sustains, one for shorts. Also, portamento is not really working, many transistions are not well programmed. Sometimes, the note right before a portamento will be kind of muted which isn't good at all. Thats not what you expect from a professional library. But anyway, these are problems that can be fixed and i hope that they will! I really like the overall system and so excited that i can finally compose good sounding orchestral pieces on iOS! CUDOS and now, back to work!



Unfortunately this is the case even with the full BS library on kontakt (huge volume difference between short and sustain and some portamento issues).


----------



## OleJoergensen

Updated version- - - - - - -

I wrote a B part and adjusted the cc expression curve.
Also turned off background updating for several apps in iPads settings. So now the Berlin Steinway D plays without drop outs 🙂.
The notation lacks “natural” signs- I can’t draw them :-/.

A little piano piece (chord progression 1-6-2-5) , written for piano students.

Update: I needed it for other use but will be back later....


----------



## dcoscina

OleJoergensen said:


> Updated version- - - - - - -
> 
> I wrote a B part and adjusted the cc expression curve.
> Also turned off background updating for several apps in iPads settings. So now the Berlin Steinway D plays without drop outs 🙂.
> The notation lacks “natural” signs- I can’t draw them :-/.
> 
> A little piano piece (chord progression 1-6-2-5) , written for piano students.



How are you recording these examples for video? Is there a screen capture app for iOS you are using?


----------



## OleJoergensen

Yes, in the IOS Ipad


----------



## ChrisL

dcoscina said:


> How are you recording these examples for video? Is there a screen capture app for iOS you are using?


It’s built in (as of iOS 12, I think): https://www.apowersoft.com/how-to-record-on-ios-13.html


----------



## giwro

OleJoergensen said:


> Updated version- - - - - - -
> 
> I wrote a B part and adjusted the cc expression curve.
> Also turned off background updating for several apps in iPads settings. So now the Berlin Steinway D plays without drop outs 🙂.
> The notation lacks “natural” signs- I can’t draw them :-/.
> 
> A little piano piece (chord progression 1-6-2-5) , written for piano students.




Ole, that piano sounds lovely! (And the composition is nice too - great way to get in some technical hurdles for a student and also let them play beautiful music!)


----------



## OleJoergensen

giwro said:


> Ole, that piano sounds lovely! (And the composition is nice too - great way to get in some technical hurdles for a student and also let them play beautiful music!)


Thank you Jonathan.
The good part it is easy to memorise and still some challenged.


----------



## gussunkri

gfcgfc said:


> Unfortunately this is the case even with the full BS library on kontakt (huge volume difference between short and sustain and some portamento issues).


So is the ultimate bundle then: Berlin strings, Berlin woods, CinePercussion and Spitfire Brass?


----------



## dcoscina

gussunkri said:


> So is the ultimate bundle then: Berlin strings, Berlin woods, CinePercussion and Spitfire Brass?


I love the Berlin Brass personally but I’m admittedly doing more concert works so I don’t need hyped up brass. I’m eventually planning on adding CineSamples and Spitfire libraries however


----------



## prodigalson

My Berlin Brass library just disappeared. Completely unavailable in the instrument list and won’t download again from the store. Scores that use Berlin Brass function fine but the instruments are no longer available to add to a score. Anyone have this issue? 

Ive discussed it with staffpad support and they suggested it would be fixed by simply restarting the app which is not the case. Haven’t heard from them since.

I want to use the Berlin Brass I paid for and not have to buy another brass lib. 

Any suggestions/thoughts?


----------



## gfcgfc

prodigalson said:


> My Berlin Brass library just disappeared. Completely unavailable in the instrument list and won’t download again from the store. Scores that use Berlin Brass function fine but the instruments are no longer available to add to a score. Anyone have this issue?
> 
> Ive discussed it with staffpad support and they suggested it would be fixed by simply restarting the app which is not the case. Haven’t heard from them since.
> 
> I want to use the Berlin Brass I paid for and not have to buy another brass lib.
> 
> Any suggestions/thoughts?


I had the same problem twice. 
First time I completely powered off the ipad and when restarted the library was there. Second time I had to restore purchases.
Never happened again after installing 1.0.3.


----------



## JF

How are the dynamics with Berlin brass?


----------



## dcoscina

JF said:


> How are the dynamics with Berlin brass?


I think they sound great. Can get very loud if need be. More classical tone than film scoring but brighter and more buzzy than SF brass in my opinion. I nice middle ground between CineBrass and SF brass


----------



## stevebarden

Anyone know how to achieve the Bartok pizz for Spitfire strings? That articulation is not listed in the symbols palette and drawing the standard notation for it (circle with vertical line at the top) is not recognized. The Bartok pizz is listed as an included articulation for Spitfire.


----------



## ridgero

this is the boomb


dcoscina said:


> I think they sound great. Can get very loud if need be. More classical tone than film scoring but brighter and more buzzy than SF brass in my opinion. I nice middle ground between CineBrass and SF brass



Could you may post a comparison? Thanks


----------



## micrologus

prodigalson said:


> My Berlin Brass library just disappeared. Completely unavailable in the instrument list and won’t download again from the store. Scores that use Berlin Brass function fine but the instruments are no longer available to add to a score. Anyone have this issue?



I have the same problem. I dowloaded the following libraries: OT Woodwinds, Brass, Strings, Cinestrings Solo, CinePercussions, Spitfire Organ. I downloaded each library in ca. 2 minutes, but with OT Brass I always had great problems. I had to try and try more times. The download started and then stopped. Only one time I could download it after 4 hours! Then it went lost in a restore. Now the download never starts. I wrote to the Zendesk, I hope they will fix the problem.

Apart from that, I'm very happy with the quality of the app and of the libraries. It's a dream to compose anywhere on a little tablet.


----------



## micrologus

stevebarden said:


> Anyone know how to achieve the Bartok pizz for Spitfire strings? That articulation is not listed in the symbols palette and drawing the standard notation for it (circle with vertical line at the top) is not recognized. The Bartok pizz is listed as an included articulation for Spitfire.



And the normal pizzicato?


----------



## prodigalson

gfcgfc said:


> I had the same problem twice.
> First time I completely powered off the ipad and when restarted the library was there. Second time I had to restore purchases.
> Never happened again after installing 1.0.3.



Thanks. Updated to 1.0.3 and still have the problem. Tried restarting several times and no successs. Berlin Brass won’t download and doesn’t show up in my instrument list. Scores that already have BB play fine so I know the library exists, the app just doesn’t think it does. VERY frustrating. 

Now, I just noticed my Berlin Strings is gone as well. What the HELL?? I love the app and think it will totally change my workflow but FFS, the Store functionality is NOT ready for prime time.


----------



## foxby

OleJoergensen said:


> Updated version- - - - - - -
> 
> I wrote a B part and adjusted the cc expression curve.
> Also turned off background updating for several apps in iPads settings. So now the Berlin Steinway D plays without drop outs 🙂.
> The notation lacks “natural” signs- I can’t draw them :-/.
> 
> A little piano piece (chord progression 1-6-2-5) , written for piano students.



Nice piece , Congrats ! However, on my iPad 12.9 3rd gen, Berlin Piano samples are unclear at,lets say, f and even mf at some points. Looks like the samples are more powerful than what speakers can do ... I do not know , but they definitely have some asperities ...


----------



## OleJoergensen

foxby said:


> Nice piece , Congrats ! However, on my iPad 12.9 3rd gen, Berlin Piano samples are unclear at,lets say, f and even mf at some points. Looks like the samples are more powerful than what speakers can do ... I do not know , but they definitely have some asperities ...


Thank you Foxby.
I use a 2. gen iPad pro 12.9
Do you draw the expression curve or only use dynamic marks? I find there are to great jumps from p-mf-f. 
Im not sure I got the point?


----------



## foxby

OleJoergensen said:


> Thank you Foxby.
> I use a 2. gen iPad pro 12.9
> Do you draw the expression curve or only use dynamic marks? I find there are to great jumps from p-mf-f.
> Im not sure I got the point?


Thank you for your fast response Ole. I have used the dynamic marks only... So , from what you have said, the best way to insert dynamics, is to draw them with the expression curve! That is great, thanks a lot ! However , at forte ,is the piano clear or have you experienced some distorted output ... kind of audio clipping .. I cannot better describe it, maybe I will post a short fragment!
Bogdan


----------



## OleJoergensen

Ah now I got it.
yes, forte is very loud (painful sound).
I think it is best to write the dynamics p-mf-f first and the draw the expression lane/curve. 
I hope Orchestral tools will update the piano collection, I dont think it is there usual standard....


----------



## foxby

OleJoergensen said:


> Ah now I got it.
> yes, forte is very loud (painful sound).
> I think it is best to write the dynamics p-mf-f first and the draw the expression lane/curve.
> I hope Orchestral tools will update the piano collection, I dont think it is there usual standard....


Ohh.. thanks , at least my ears were not dreaming... Yes , that is the problem .. they are very loud , uncontrollably loud almost with dynamic marks . And YES , the only way to get around this is only by writing dynamic curves ! The expressivity is there , maybe the developers are going to revisit the samples !!


----------



## bvaughn0402

So ... doesn't it seem that if we own these libraries we should get them at a discount? I wouldn't go so far as to say "free" ... but just seems current customers of these products aren't being considered in the pricing.


----------



## emasters

bvaughn0402 said:


> So ... doesn't it seem that if we own these libraries we should get them at a discount? I wouldn't go so far as to say "free" ... but just seems current customers of these products aren't being considered in the pricing.



I asked David about this. He said with the Apple in-app purchase structure, there's no latitude for a discount for prior owners. Would like to see this as well, but it sounds like it won't happen. I did spend time watching all the third-party walk-through videos today, and have to say, it seems like they've done a good job in terms of features and customizing. If you consider Staffpad, the third-party library vendor and Apple all get a portion of the price, it's not a large amount for any one of them.


----------



## OleJoergensen

foxby said:


> Ohh.. thanks , at least my ears were not dreaming... Yes , that is the problem .. they are very loud , uncontrollably loud almost with dynamic marks . And YES , the only way to get around this is only by writing dynamic curves ! The expressivity is there , maybe the developers are going to revisit the samples !!


I was notified by a member from the Staffpad group at Facebook, that Berlin B and D has some noise, hiss, at the P dynamics. I have noticed this before now. I had to turn up the volume, it sound quite strange. I hope for an update.

Edit: I have just mail Staffpad concerning the noisy samples in Berlin D and B.


----------



## waveheavy

Is it possible to solo each staff and render just that part to audio, one staff at a time, in order to build individual stems for export to a DAW for further mixing and mastering?


----------



## giwro

waveheavy said:


> Is it possible to solo each staff and render just that part to audio, one staff at a time, in order to build individual stems for export to a DAW for further mixing and mastering?



As I understand it, this is a feature that will be implemented later down the road... I think they didn’t get it included in time for the release. The other thing this will help is people using a lower-spec iPad or Surface... you’ll be able to take it to a faster machine for assembly.


----------



## gfcgfc

waveheavy said:


> Is it possible to solo each staff and render just that part to audio, one staff at a time, in order to build individual stems for export to a DAW for further mixing and mastering?



Yes.
While waiting for the automatic stem generation feature, I’m soloing and exporting section by section.
You can do it instrument by instrument if you like...it’s a bit more tedious but it works.


----------



## meaks

Hi, as i don't have nor Ipad or Surface, i tried StaffPad on Windows 10 64 pro 1909 with a wacom graphic tablet to test it. For now, i can enter simple quarter and more longer notes, dynamics via text and menu, but StaffPad doesn't recognize 8ths and shorter notes and rests, legato and tie, is there someone that tried also on windows with a graphic tablet ?
Also, i couldn't resist in buying berlin strings, berlin woodwinds and cinebrass, so i'm stuck with surface if i want to buy a proper tablet. Could the happy surface users share their model and specs ?
Do you think that the i5 with 8go and 256go Ssd versions of surfaces are enough for full orchestral works, or all of you recommend the i7 versions with 16go ram.

Apart from that problem, a dream come true and i encourage the developpers to continue and add more features and better recognition as i think this app IS a real game changer !

Thanks in advance, meaks !


----------



## Kanter

I would like to second that question (again), especially if only 8GB of RAM (there are older i7 with that amount, too) is an impediment to a smooth functioning of a "loaded" Staffpad.


----------



## Mymind

meaks said:


> Hi, as i don't have nor Ipad or Surface, i tried StaffPad on Windows 10 64 pro 1909 with a wacom graphic tablet to test it. For now, i can enter simple quarter and more longer notes, dynamics via text and menu, but StaffPad doesn't recognize 8ths and shorter notes and rests, legato and tie, is there someone that tried also on windows with a graphic tablet ?
> Also, i couldn't resist in buying berlin strings, berlin woodwinds and cinebrass, so i'm stuck with surface if i want to buy a proper tablet. Could the happy surface users share their model and specs ?
> Do you think that the i5 with 8go and 256go Ssd versions of surfaces are enough for full orchestral works, or all of you recommend the i7 versions with 16go ram.
> 
> Apart from that problem, a dream come true and i encourage the developpers to continue and add more features and better recognition as i think this app IS a real game changer !
> 
> Thanks in advance, meaks !


I don’t own any third library but I am using surface pro 4 and It runs well. A bit laggy when something else is running in the background like windows update, windows security scan etc. But appart from that I don’t have any performance issue.


----------



## Kanter

your specs please? processor, RAM.. thanks!


----------



## Mymind

Surface pro 4 i5 processor
8gb of ram
256 ssd


----------



## foxby

OleJoergensen said:


> I was notified by a member from the Staffpad group at Facebook, that Berlin B and D has some noise, hiss, at the P dynamics. I have noticed this before now. I had to turn up the volume, it sound quite strange. I hope for an update.
> 
> Edit: I have just mail Staffpad concerning the noisy samples in Berlin D and B.


Indeed they have ...I thought that maybe the drawing will do, but as I said previously , they need to revisit the samples .....they simply are not clean enough !

PS: the process of drawing dynmic lines becomes quite tedious if the piece is a bit complicated and has a lot of inner voices and pedals ...


----------



## Kanter

Mymind said:


> Surface pro 4 i5 processor
> 8gb of ram
> 256 ssd


thank you. Now if you could go buy all those libraries, so we can see how you fare with those specs... (just kidding).
The dilemma in buying older surfaces seems to be in the trade-off between higher-rated processors and newer generations. A gen.4 (or higher) i5 may well outclass an older i7, depending on the use profile- e.g., in single core performance, the i7 remains ahead, even if dated... clock speeds (also for the GPU) seem to favor the newer i5 in that comparison.


----------



## Mymind

Kanter said:


> thank you. Now if you could go buy all those libraries, so we can see how you fare with those specs... (just kidding).
> The dilemma in buying older surfaces seems to be in the trade-off between higher-rated processors and newer generations. A gen.4 (or higher) i5 may well outclass an older i7, depending on the use profile- e.g., in single core performance, the i7 remains ahead, even if dated... clock speeds (also for the GPU) seem to favor the newer i5 in that comparison.


😄 That’s what I’m afraid. My wallet will suffer. For my case, I think I will wait for april and buy the actual version of ipad pro. It will be cheaper as new generation will arrive normally. Then I could buy third libraries. Just for staffpad, I prefer an ipad. 
But if I had to buy a newer generation of surface pro, I would go for a i5 processor.


----------



## WindcryMusic

Does anyone know how to coax out different types of vibrato (especially non-vibrato) from Berlin Strings in StaffPad? The library description specifically mentions multiple “vibrato types”, but I haven’t been able to get those sections to produce anything other than a standard vibrato.


----------



## giwro

I’ve tried unsuccessfully to play demos and walkthroughs on my iPad.... video plays, but no sound (yes, my volume is up, and I’ve even closed all other apps to ensure nothing else is using audio...)
Weird.


----------



## Nickie Fønshauge

giwro said:


> I’ve tried unsuccessfully to play demos and walkthroughs on my iPad.... video plays, but no sound (yes, my volume is up, and I’ve even closed all other apps to ensure nothing else is using audio...)
> Weird.


Have you tried to reboot your device? Things can go awry. Recently my iPad Pro started crashing all over the place after having been rock solid since I bought it a couple of years ago. A reboot fixed it.


----------



## giwro

Nickie Fønshauge said:


> Have you tried to reboot your device? Things can go awry. Recently my iPad Pro started crashing all over the place after having been rock solid since I bought it a couple of years ago. A reboot fixed it.


Good idea, Nickie...

But, that didn’t help either. Weird.


----------



## meaks

Hi,

Thanks for your answers.

FYI, StaffPad has updated on Windows to 3.0.9.0, this update fixes all the problems i had on my particular setup (No Surface nor Ipad, Regular PC, WACOM graphic tablet).

So, for those interested, StaffPad works very well on PC with Windows 1909 and a drawing tablet, the only problem is scrolling, but i think a good drawing tablet should resolve it.
I'll stay with that setup for now as i don't have enough money to buy a decent Surface pro 7 model for StaffPad.

Anyway, thanks to the developpers, as i tried for years now to have a notation software working with good Library sounds, and i tried with Sibelius, Sibelius directly to Cubase and Dorico, but it never worked the way StaffPad works.


Meaks.


----------



## Mymind

meaks said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for your answers.
> 
> FYI, StaffPad has updated on Windows to 3.0.9.0, this update fixes all the problems i had on my particular setup (No Surface nor Ipad, Regular PC, WACOM graphic tablet).
> 
> So, for those interested, StaffPad works very well on PC with Windows 1909 and a drawing tablet, the only problem is scrolling, but i think a good drawing tablet should resolve it.
> I'll stay with that setup for now as i don't have enough money to buy a decent Surface pro 7 model for StaffPad.
> 
> Anyway, thanks to the developpers, as i tried for years now to have a notation software working with good Library sounds, and i tried with Sibelius, Sibelius directly to Cubase and Dorico, but it never worked the way StaffPad works.
> 
> 
> Meaks.


Hi,
Could you please list the problems you think has been resolved with this version?
Thanks


----------



## meaks

Sure,

Now i can write 8ths, 16ths (Hard) rests and notes. Tie and legato works well, dynamics too (except mp,mf, ff, fff, they are hardly recognized), i can write chords, ties or legato between notes in chords, staccato, accent, marcato works well too, so far everything i needed has been recognized or inserted by text.
The only problems...
i can't scroll and zoom with my drawing tablet, so i use mouse and keyboard, i don't know if its possible with another particular drawing tablet model.
I can't erase by pressure with my pen as its an old WACOM (Volito), maybe with a newer one !

Joined, a small part of the score i did with StaffPad on an i7 Windows 1909 PC with an old WACOM drawing tablet, i joined the mp3 too, the sounds are Berlin Strings, Berlin Woodwinds, Cinebrass and Cineperc.

As i'm testing, i'm just writing as an exercise so the music is quite simple, just to see how StaffPad reacts, made in 3 Hours (to have an idea of the workflow).

Meaks.


----------



## Mymind

meaks said:


> Sure,
> 
> Now i can write 8ths, 16ths (Hard) rests and notes. Tie and legato works well, dynamics too (except mp,mf, ff, fff, they are hardly recognized), i can write chords, ties or legato between notes in chords, staccato, accent, marcato works well too, so far everything i needed has been recognized or inserted by text.
> The only problems...
> i can't scroll and zoom with my drawing tablet, so i use mouse and keyboard, i don't know if its possible with another particular drawing tablet model.
> I can't erase by pressure with my pen as its an old WACOM (Volito), maybe with a newer one !
> 
> Joined, a small part of the score i did with StaffPad on an i7 Windows 1909 PC with an old WACOM drawing tablet, i joined the mp3 too, the sounds are Berlin Strings, Berlin Woodwinds, Cinebrass and Cineperc.
> 
> As i'm testing, i'm just writing as an exercise so the music is quite simple, just to see how StaffPad reacts, made in 3 Hours (to have an idea of the workflow).
> 
> Meaks.


Thanks! I will listen to the demo tonight.


----------



## Kanter

Beautiful, Meaks!



meaks said:


> Sure,
> 
> Now i can write 8ths, 16ths (Hard) rests and notes. Tie and legato works well, dynamics too (except mp,mf, ff, fff, they are hardly recognized), i can write chords, ties or legato between notes in chords, staccato, accent, marcato works well too, so far everything i needed has been recognized or inserted by text.
> The only problems...
> i can't scroll and zoom with my drawing tablet, so i use mouse and keyboard, i don't know if its possible with another particular drawing tablet model.
> I can't erase by pressure with my pen as its an old WACOM (Volito), maybe with a newer one !
> 
> Joined, a small part of the score i did with StaffPad on an i7 Windows 1909 PC with an old WACOM drawing tablet, i joined the mp3 too, the sounds are Berlin Strings, Berlin Woodwinds, Cinebrass and Cineperc.
> 
> As i'm testing, i'm just writing as an exercise so the music is quite simple, just to see how StaffPad reacts, made in 3 Hours (to have an idea of the workflow).
> 
> Meaks.


----------



## mario119

I'm using Staffpad for iPad, but this is very unstable now even if they've updated versions. When I draw music score and try to save it, it just freezes and I have to restart the app. After restarting, my last works were not (automatically) saved, and I wasted whole hour. I already spend a lot of money, this is not a cheap app, but I did not expect this kind of major errors with a lot of money!


----------



## Juan Ramos

Greetings to all, it is the first time I publish on this website (sorry because I do not speak English well).
I have made a first composition/study on the dynamics of the Berlin Strings library of Orchestral Tools for Staffpad, ipad version. From mf to pppp!.
I think Berlin is missing a "pppppp"


----------



## Tilt & Flow

mario119 said:


> I'm using Staffpad for iPad, but this is very unstable now even if they've updated versions. When I draw music score and try to save it, it just freezes and I have to restart the app. After restarting, my last works were not (automatically) saved, and I wasted whole hour. I already spend a lot of money, this is not a cheap app, but I did not expect this kind of major errors with a lot of money!


Using a iPad Pro (3rd gen) without problems. After the most recent update, the app rarely crashes but when it does, the work is auto saved. And I’m on this app for hours.
maybe send your specs to support and see what they suggest?


----------



## sundrowned

meaks said:


> i can't scroll and zoom with my drawing tablet, so i use mouse and keyboard, i don't know if its possible with another particular drawing tablet model.



I've tried it with a touch and a non touch wacom tablet. It works pretty well with either.
With the touch one zooming and scroll works. But actually I found it easier to assign scroll to one of the pen buttons. Did that on both tablets. 

There are some helpful keyboard shortcuts as well. "E" for erase for example. And because I had scroll assigned to one of the pen buttons I had to use a mouse for the change clef, time sig, key, div staff settings. 

The trick to getting it to recognise things correctly I found was to be quite zoomed in. 

It's quite interesting. Personally I prefer inputting notes from a pre-selected value, I find that more efficient. But the playback on staffpad is impressive.


----------



## Eric G

Tilt & Flow said:


> Using a iPad Pro (3rd gen) without problems. After the most recent update, the app rarely crashes but when it does, the work is auto saved. And I’m on this app for hours.
> maybe send your specs to support and see what they suggest?


 
I have to agree here, I have had no big stability issues on the IPad Pro 12.9" (3rd Gen) version. Not saying its not happening to others but it may be a hardware performance issue.


----------



## emasters

Tilt & Flow said:


> Using a iPad Pro (3rd gen) without problems. After the most recent update, the app rarely crashes but when it does, the work is auto saved. And I’m on this app for hours.
> maybe send your specs to support and see what they suggest?



Same experience here with iPad Pro 12.9" (3rd Gen).


----------



## gfcgfc

You’re not a viking by John Powell (How to train your dragon).
No editing and no mastering; just note enter and press play. All Berlin Orchestra.

View attachment IMG_0022.MP4


----------



## Mymind

gfcgfc said:


> You’re not a viking by John Powell (How to train your dragon).
> No editing and no mastering; just note enter and press play. All Berlin Orchestra.
> 
> View attachment IMG_0022.MP4


Really good although the video quality is low.


----------



## OleJoergensen

meaks said:


> Sure,
> 
> Now i can write 8ths, 16ths (Hard) rests and notes. Tie and legato works well, dynamics too (except mp,mf, ff, fff, they are hardly recognized), i can....


It sound lovely.


----------



## zolhof

sundrowned said:


> I've tried it with a touch and a non touch wacom tablet. It works pretty well with either.
> With the touch one zooming and scroll works. But actually I found it easier to assign scroll to one of the pen buttons. Did that on both tablets.



Which model was it? Can you scroll in all directions? I'm using an Intuos Pro Touch and can't scroll horizontally in StaffPad. Glad to hear it's working for you, so there is hope.  Support is looking into it but in the meanwhile I assigned the < and > keys to the touch ring to use it as a jog wheel. Works quite well!


----------



## gfcgfc

Is there a way to write an harp glissando for a specific chord different from the system tonality ? I can’t find any specific harp pedal symbol and putting a chord on the harp staff seems not to work. Thanks


----------



## meaks

zolhof said:


> Which model was it? Can you scroll in all directions? I'm using an Intuos Pro Touch and can't scroll horizontally in StaffPad. Glad to hear it's working for you, so there is hope.  Support is looking into it but in the meanwhile I assigned the < and > keys to the touch ring to use it as a jog wheel. Works quite well!



Hi, i'm on an intuos Pro M too and i cant't also scroll horizontally, as you said, you assigned the < and > keys to the touch ring ? i tried but no luck, what are exactly the keys you assigned, the arrows on the middle of the keyboard or the keys < and (shift) > ?

I tried also to assign scroll to the second pen buttons, but no luck too...

Thanks,
Meaks.


----------



## ridgero

If I buy a new iPad, do I need to rebuy my libraries?


----------



## Eric G

ridgero said:


> If I buy a new iPad, do I need to rebuy my libraries?


No. There is a "Restore Purchases" button


----------



## zolhof

meaks said:


> Hi, i'm on an intuos Pro M too and i cant't also scroll horizontally, as you said, you assigned the < and > keys to the touch ring ? i tried but no luck, what are exactly the keys you assigned, the arrows on the middle of the keyboard or the keys < and (shift) > ?
> 
> I tried also to assign scroll to the second pen buttons, but no luck too...
> 
> Thanks,
> Meaks.



Hi Meaks, it's actually the comma and period keys:






The StaffPad documentation says to use the < and > keys but I think they meant the other way around. So, in the Wacom software, you should set it like that:






In case the screen does not follow the playhead (seems bugged), you can press a numeric key from 2 to 8 in order to jump to an off-screen bar. The numeric keys are meant to navigate rehearsal markers, but you can use them to "force jump" to the playhead. I have the button below the touch ring assigned to the number 8 for that purpose. And please send them a support ticket reporting these issues -- the more information the better.


----------



## meaks

Thanks @zolhof , it worked !
It's a good solution for now, i sent a support mail to StaffPad team asking them if they could resolve that issue in a future update, wait and see...

And sorry, i forgot to thanks those who liked the music i posted earlier, so thank you.

Meaks.


----------



## sundrowned

zolhof said:


> Which model was it? Can you scroll in all directions? I'm using an Intuos Pro Touch and can't scroll horizontally in StaffPad. Glad to hear it's working for you, so there is hope.  Support is looking into it but in the meanwhile I assigned the < and > keys to the touch ring to use it as a jog wheel. Works quite well!



It's a cheap bamboo pen and touch cth-460. I bought it off ebay for close to nothing specifically to try with staffpad. Panning works with a two finger swipe horizontally and vertically. It's not quite as snappy as I'd like so assigning 'pan and scroll' to one of the pen buttons worked really well. It also means not having to change pen position in my hand to swipe. 

I also have a non touch bamboo ctl-470 and prefer it with that. I'm contemplating getting a touch cth-470 and trying it with that as well.


----------



## micrologus

First try with Mascagni's Intermezzo sinfonico from _Cavalleria rusticana_. The dynamics need some revision. 



OT Berlin Strings, OT oboe, Spitfire Union Chapel Organ.
Harp, flutes, clarinet: core library.

*(Edited: new version)*


----------



## Mymind

micrologus said:


> First try with Mascagni's Intermezzo sinfonico from _Cavalleria rusticana_. The dynamics need some revision.



Beautiful!
May be you could even add more human touch by using the tempo map.


----------



## micrologus

Mymind said:


> Beautiful!
> May be you could even add more human touch by using the tempo map.



Yes, exactly!


----------



## gfcgfc

A small composition with Staffpad and Berlin samples.


----------



## Mymind

micrologus said:


> First try with Mascagni's Intermezzo sinfonico from _Cavalleria rusticana_. The dynamics need some revision.
> 
> 
> 
> OT Berlin Strings, OT oboe, Spitfire Union Chapel Organ.
> Harp, flutes, clarinet: core library.
> 
> *(Edited: new version)*



Wonderful! Definitely better with tempo map!


----------



## OleJoergensen

micrologus said:


> First try with Mascagni's Intermezzo sinfonico from _Cavalleria rusticana_. The dynamics need some revision.
> 
> 
> 
> OT Berlin Strings, OT oboe, Spitfire Union Chapel Organ.
> Harp, flutes, clarinet: core library.
> 
> *(Edited: new version)*



Wonderful!


----------



## meaks

Hi all,
Second try with StaffPad, a far more less talented JW style piece 
I enjoyed writing this piece except some workflow annoying problems in StaffPad, sure they will improve it in future updates.
All made with StaffPad, exported from StaffPad, little mix, just adjusted volumes, 10 Hours work, to have an idea of the workflow...

Berlin Woodwinds
Cinebrass
Cineperc
Berlin Strings

I noticed dynamics problems in the Cinebrass sound Library, Trombones mf too f, mp on horns too p, and fp in general are not usable…
So you must adapt the automation and mix, i prefer Sibelius and Note Perfomer in terms of balancing !

Thanks,
Meaks.


----------



## lucor

Is it possible to switch between libraries on the same staff, without needing seperate staffs for different libraries? So that for example bars 1-16 are played by Berlin Strings and then you switch to CineStrings, because it handles that particular phrase better?


----------



## Eric G

lucor said:


> Is it possible to switch between libraries on the same staff, without needing seperate staffs for different libraries? So that for example bars 1-16 are played by Berlin Strings and then you switch to CineStrings, because it handles that particular phrase better?


Yes. And you can switch between Solo and 2a, 3a if the library supports it. And the switch is noted just like it is in a score. Seamless

For example I switch between Berlin First Chairs and Berlin Violins I or Spitfire Violins I all on the same line.


----------



## Fry777

Anybody uses Staffpad to import classical pieces in musicXML format ?
If so, how practical has it been for you ? I can see the appeal in able to isolate/solo some parts of the score...


----------



## giwro

I keep having this issue with installing Berlin Percussion - gets to 80% then throws an error...



I’ve contacted support, but anyone else suffer this? I hate to keep repeatedly trying to “restore purchases” if it’s not going to work....


----------



## OleJoergensen

Eric G said:


> Yes. And you can switch between Solo and 2a, 3a if the library supports it. And the switch is noted just like it is in a score. Seamless
> 
> For example I switch between Berlin First Chairs and Berlin Violins I or Spitfire Violins I all on the same line.


Hello Eric.

I have looked for this, can you explain a bit...?


----------



## Kanter

re my earlier question (which used backup device to buy for using Staffpad on the road), I have an answer from the horses mouth, i.e. David from Staffpad- an 8GB (vs 16GB) RAM Surface Pro should be no impediment to using the app loaded with add-on libraries, as the loading of samples is (and I quote) literally 100x more efficient than in a DAW situation, since no live playing is taking place.


----------



## Jack Weaver

How do you see the StaffPad OT, Spitfire, CineSamples, etc. libraries and their prices on the StaffPad site? I see a link to the main sites for those libraries but don't see and further links on those sites to StaffPad-specific products.

Thanks.

.


----------



## Cinebient

Kanter said:


> re my earlier question (which used backup device to buy for using Staffpad on the road), I have an answer from the horses mouth, i.e. David from Staffpad- an 8GB (vs 16GB) RAM Surface Pro should be no impediment to using the app loaded with add-on libraries, as the loading of samples is (and I quote) literally 100x more efficient than in a DAW situation, since no live playing is taking place.



That makes sense. So i guess also it is using mainly streaming from disk rather loading much into RAM.
Of course that also means that live midi input without latency would not work anyway here.
But hell, i´m still surprised how good it can sound here. I just hear in a lot demos here some kind of compression, even slight distortion. Is it StaffPad?


----------



## giwro

Cinebient said:


> That makes sense. So i guess also it is using mainly streaming from disk rather loading much into RAM.
> Of course that also means that live midi input without latency would not work anyway here.
> But hell, i´m still surprised how good it can sound here. I just hear in a lot demos here some kind of compression, even slight distortion. Is it StaffPad?



I think the distortion might come from screen recording - for a better output I’d choose to render to audio and combine in iMovie or similar.


----------



## stevebarden

giwro said:


> I keep having this issue with installing Berlin Percussion - gets to 80% then throws an error...
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve contacted support, but anyone else suffer this? I hate to keep repeatedly trying to “restore purchases” if it’s not going to work....


I got a similar error this morning trying to download Spitfire Woodwinds. I tried it a second time and went through successfully.


----------



## ChrisL

stevebarden said:


> I got a similar error this morning trying to download Spitfire Woodwinds. I tried it a second time and went through successfully.


I had the same issue a couple of weeks ago. The woodwinds kept failing to download with a similar error message. After several days of failures it eventually just worked. Their support suggested that I try restarting the iPad, but by the time I received their response it had already gone through, so I can't say whether it would have actually made a difference.


----------



## giwro

ChrisL said:


> I had the same issue a couple of weeks ago. The woodwinds kept failing to download with a similar error message. After several days of failures it eventually just worked. Their support suggested that I try restarting the iPad, but by the time I received their response it had already gone through, so I can't say whether it would have actually made a difference.


Thanks @ChrisL and @stevebarden - I'll keep trying. One thing I found out is that if you "restore purchases" it re-downloads EVERYthing.... so now I just hit the purchase button again, it says I've already purchased and would I like to D/l again for free... why, yes... yes I would <chuckle>:emoji_astonished:


----------



## Michael Antrum

micrologus said:


> First try with Mascagni's Intermezzo sinfonico from _Cavalleria rusticana_. The dynamics need some revision.
> 
> 
> 
> OT Berlin Strings, OT oboe, Spitfire Union Chapel Organ.
> Harp, flutes, clarinet: core library.
> 
> *(Edited: new version)*




This is one of my absolute favourite pieces of music, and it makes an excellent fist of it. 

I have an original iPad Pro 9.7" but I think I may well be upgrading to the new 12.9 iPad Pro when the new model comes out - hopefully next month.


----------



## jonathanparham

meaks said:


> Hi all,
> Second try with StaffPad, a far more less talented JW style piece
> I enjoyed writing this piece except some workflow annoying problems in StaffPad, sure they will improve it in future updates.
> All made with StaffPad, exported from StaffPad, little mix, just adjusted volumes, 10 Hours work, to have an idea of the workflow...
> 
> Berlin Woodwinds
> Cinebrass
> Cineperc
> Berlin Strings
> 
> I noticed dynamics problems in the Cinebrass sound Library, Trombones mf too f, mp on horns too p, and fp in general are not usable…
> So you must adapt the automation and mix, i prefer Sibelius and Note Perfomer in terms of balancing !
> 
> Thanks,
> Meaks.


very enjoyable. Thanks for letting us know the process, time, etc.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Eric G said:


> Yes. And you can switch between Solo and 2a, 3a if the library supports it. And the switch is noted just like it is in a score. Seamless
> 
> For example I switch between Berlin First Chairs and Berlin Violins I or Spitfire Violins I all on the same line.


Hello Eric.

I have looked for this, can you explain a bit...?


----------



## gfcgfc

OleJoergensen said:


> Hello Eric.
> 
> I have looked for this, can you explain a bit...?


Just long press the staff and select “Add Instrument Change” on the appearing popup: now you can select any instrument from the “Instrument Change“ screen. From this bar on it will play with the newly selected instrument. You can do any time you want and you can select any instruments from the same or different library. For example you can switch between Cinebrass 4 horns to Berlin Brass Horn 1 etc.


----------



## OleJoergensen

gfcgfc said:


> Just long press the staff and select “Add Instrument Change” on the appearing popup: now you can select any instrument from the “Instrument Change“ screen. From this bar on it will play with the newly selected instrument. You can do any time you want and you can select any instruments from the same or different library. For example you can switch between Cinebrass 4 horns to Berlin Brass Horn 1 etc.


Thank you. This is awsome .


----------



## Cinebient

giwro said:


> I think the distortion might come from screen recording - for a better output I’d choose to render to audio and combine in iMovie or similar.



Thanks.
Anyway i guess mixing should happen elsewhere anyway. While nearly all demos here sounds good and especially i´m surprised how good dynamics can sound it is all is a bit one dimensional and i find some mixed sounds just do not fit well in the "room" or lack the spatalization. The more instruments are included, the more i find the sound gets muddy.
So i do wonder if all libraries using just the tree? I personally would love close mics for a better source to set my own space and use it with extern reverb and spatalization like Precedence f.e.


----------



## jadi

Fry777 said:


> Anybody uses Staffpad to import classical pieces in musicXML format ?
> If so, how practical has it been for you ? I can see the appeal in able to isolate/solo some parts of the score...



I'm using Staffpad on a 12,9" iPad Pro 2nd 2017, and tried some import and export with Logic. Unfortunately it isn't working flawlessly. I tried to upload the Logic project to Staffpad with both the midi 0 file and midi 1 setting (via preferences general). 

For piano instruments I divide the left and right hand in two channels. But this information is lost and Staffpad tries to make its own interpretation for what is which channel. See screenshot. It's often not the right interpretation causing also some timings issues.

For one staff instruments, there is a problem with slurred notes, as in the other screenshot. In red is, what the measure looked like.

Also on the way back into Logic there is translation that doesn't work well.

I also tried the XML, but that let to not recognized 16 notes, which although played as 16, they were shown as 8.

Hopefully the interface in Staffpad gets updated, because when intended to work with other programs (DAW) the exchange should be working better than it does now.

I posted this comment also on the Staffpad webpage. Hopefully they can work on it.


----------



## Eric G

OleJoergensen said:


> Hello Eric.
> 
> I have looked for this, can you explain a bit...?





gfcgfc said:


> Just long press the staff and select “Add Instrument Change” on the appearing popup: now you can select any instrument from the “Instrument Change“ screen. From this bar on it will play with the newly selected instrument. You can do any time you want and you can select any instruments from the same or different library. For example you can switch between Cinebrass 4 horns to Berlin Brass Horn 1 etc.


Yes what he said is how you do it.


----------



## juanramos

Please, a question for those who have berlin woodwinds: is there no ensemble of flutes? If I want the two or three flutes to sound in unison, do I have to put them on different staves?


----------



## stevebarden

juanramos said:


> Please, a question for those who have berlin woodwinds: is there no ensemble of flutes? If I want the two or three flutes to sound in unison, do I have to put them on different staves?


Yes. That's why I went with Spitfire WW instead. They have a2 combinations. Berlin will have to be treated much like you would handle them in a DAW - separate tracks (or staves) to combine multiple instruments. CineWinds is that way, too.


----------



## juanramos

stevebarden said:


> Yes. That's why I went with Spitfire WW instead. They have a2 combinations. Berlin will have to be treated much like you would handle them in a DAW - separate tracks (or staves) to combine multiple instruments. CineWinds is that way, too.


Ok, thank you


----------



## dcoscina

stevebarden said:


> Yes. That's why I went with Spitfire WW instead. They have a2 combinations. Berlin will have to be treated much like you would handle them in a DAW - separate tracks (or staves) to combine multiple instruments. CineWinds is that way, too.


technically, every instrument gets its own stave in modern concert writing. So, Spitfire ensemble patches are actually more indicative of DAW thought process than traditional score writing. Achieving unisons is done through separate instruments (though their Brass collection in Staffpad DO have group versions.... probably for more powerful statements).


----------



## Juan Ramos

Composition using Steinway D Piano by Orchestral Tools and playing with the tempo track. Dynamic: mp to ppp. There is no option to silence the pedal.


----------



## jadi

Juan Ramos said:


> Composition using Steinway D Piano by Orchestral Tools and playing with the tempo track. Dynamic: mp to ppp. There is no option to silence the pedal.




Well done, nice composition! Did you use only Staffpad for this?


----------



## Juan Ramos

jadi said:


> Well done, nice composition! Did you use only Staffpad for this?


Thank you, yes


----------



## emilio_n

Juan Ramos said:


> Composition using Steinway D Piano by Orchestral Tools and playing with the tempo track. Dynamic: mp to ppp. There is no option to silence the pedal.



Very nice composition.
Me encanta!


----------



## giwro

Some more work with XML import and this time futzing with tempo track and dynamics. Interesting to note StaffPad does allow for different dynamics between LH and RH on the piano....


----------



## Juan Ramos

emilio_n said:


> Very nice composition.
> Me encanta!


Gracias Emilio


----------



## giwro

Now I’m having a weird thing where Spitfire strings Vln 2 doesn’t work. At all. Imported files, files from scratch, iPad restarted, restore purchases... no joy. Subbing in Vln 1 works, but that’s not optimal.

To make matters worse, I’ve submitted a message to support on the StaffPad zendesk...

Crickets. Nada. Nothing.

I get it - I’m sure there are a LOT of support requests, but c’mon. Ugh. And I paid good money for these add-ons... I just wanna use them.

EDIT: Just a follow-up... I finally got a response this evening about another issue I submitted a message about late last week... so they ARE answering messages. I expect I’ll hear about this issue in due course once they slog thru the backlog of messages. I’ll update again in that case.


----------



## dcoscina

Does anyone else have issues with cracking in the audio stream when dragging notes up and down? I didn’t notice it being as bad before the BErlin Strings and Brass update...


----------



## zolhof

Version 3.0.11.0 is up! Can confirm that navigation shortcuts are working as intended (@meaks yeay!) and it also fixed a bug introduced in 3.0.9 where audio would play on the left channel only, under specific circumstances. 

Considering the small size of their team, I find pretty awesome how fast and consistently bugs are being squashed.


----------



## wbacer

zolhof said:


> Version 3.0.11.0 is up! Can confirm that navigation shortcuts are working as intended (@meaks yeay!) and it also fixed a bug introduced in 3.0.9 where audio would play on the left channel only, under specific circumstances.
> 
> Considering the small size of their team, I find pretty awesome how fast and consistently bugs are being squashed.


How do you get updates? My version says 1.0.3 and the latest version on the app store also says 1.0.3


----------



## giwro

wbacer said:


> How do you get updates? My version says 1.0.3 and the latest version on the app store also says 1.0.3


That update is for Win10... iPad version is still 1.0.3.....


----------



## WindcryMusic

wbacer said:


> How do you get updates? My version says 1.0.3 and the latest version on the app store also says 1.0.3



1.0.4 is evidently coming as soon as Apple's validation process is complete. In an email response to me, DWH said he's hopeful the iPad update will be out by the end of this week.


----------



## gfcgfc

Is there a changelog for the upcoming 1.04 on ios ?


----------



## jadi

giwro said:


> Some more work with XML import and this time futzing with tempo track and dynamics. Interesting to note StaffPad does allow for different dynamics between LH and RH on the piano....




With XML import from Logic, the 16th notes are recognized as 16th in playback, but shown as 8th notes. Anybody the same problem and perhaps a solution?


----------



## yujade

1.04 is up in the app store now...


----------



## Eric G

Before everyone asks here is a screenshot of the update notes for 1.0.4


----------



## dcoscina

Eric G said:


> Before everyone asks here is a screenshot of the update notes for 1.0.4


It’s a fantastic update. Yup it works beautifully now, adding notes to existing beamed notes, the eraser feature (love this!), I’m more than happy with this app and how much effort they are putting into it.


----------



## ChrisL

Haven't tried it yet, but that's a great looking update. Always nice to see a developer being so responsive to user feedback.


----------



## dcoscina

Here is a snippet of a larger work Im composing inside Staffpad.


----------



## damienvienna

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Great to hear! The handwriting recognition doesn’t seem to work for me maybe like 40% of the time. I guess I need to practice my writing more. Maybe they can add a different input method too (like choosing note lengths and then using pencil to place the note).



For me too. After a week of practicing, staff pad still can't recognise a simple 2 eight notes beamed together. It's totally frustrating, especially regarding the capabilities of the application, and the magic of writing music directly onto a computer. Right now I use it to work on counterpoint and harmony practicing, writing only Quarter note and Whole notes... that's pretty unfortunate....


----------



## stevebarden

Before anyone panics...after updating I was unable to open any scores created in 1.0.3 until I rebooted the iPad.


----------



## dcoscina

damienvienna said:


> For me too. After a week of practicing, staff pad still can't recognise a simple 2 eight notes beamed together. It's totally frustrating, especially regarding the capabilities of the application, and the magic of writing music directly onto a computer. Right now I use it to work on counterpoint and harmony practicing, writing only Quarter note and Whole notes... that's pretty unfortunate....


That is odd since I found the new update excellent at interpreting tuplets and even the ability to add notes to a beamed group (previously not possible).


----------



## dcoscina

ProfoundSilence said:


> I wouldn't count on that, but it's certainly going to be good for sketching


They actually sound pretty damned close. I own Berlin Brass and the Staffpad version of OT stuff has all been optimized for iOS rendering it a very capable mock up outlet.


----------



## giwro

Finally got around to doing this piece - XML import from Finale (but I did a LOT of editing, so much easier to edit after the 1.04 update and an eraser button!). Berlin First Chairs Viola, Berlin Woodwinds Alto Flute, StaffPad Harp.


----------



## Nickie Fønshauge

If you want to use the new auditioning feature, make sure to keep any tempo/chord staves below all other staves because all staves below these two staves are offset by 1 or 2.


----------



## emasters

Nickie Fønshauge said:


> If you want to use the new auditioning feature, make sure to keep any tempo/chord staves below all other staves because all staves below these two staves are offset by 1 or 2.



I ran into this as I had the tempo track at the top, which offset the playback staff by one. Matt at StaffPad said it's a defect they are aware of and fixing soon. He also said Bar Numbers will also result in the same auditioning offset behavior.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Is the handwriting recognition improved in 1.04? How are folks finding it?


----------



## Kanter

For those using the surface dial with staffpad, do you also find the basic Staffpad related functions as laid out in this video 


have ceased to work in the new version? I can activate broad generic commands such as start/stop and undo/redo, but not the rest (changing pitch of selected notes, triggering recognition etc.). Thanks.


----------



## dcoscina

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Is the handwriting recognition improved in 1.04? How are folks finding it?


Way better for me as a lefty. Tuplets and adding notes to existing beamed groups is great!


----------



## Sean J

I haven't seen anyone answering or demoing some things. If anyone could add some info here, I'd appreciate it.

1) Can I use Berlin AND Spitfire Chamber for divisi on one staff?
2) Are there any fast demos? Star Wars? I write a lot of fast.
3) Any no-reverb demos? I use close mics for fast writing.
4) DAW users... is it faster or slower to use? Do you record, step input, piano-roll+mouse?
5) Has anyone felt it couldn't decently mock-up a particular piece? Why?
6) Any demos of modern scoring synths in StaffPad?

By comparison... notion has great hand-writing, drawn dynamics, a very fast workflow... PLUS a mixer, VST support for fx and instruments, step input, MIDI I/O, rewire, note and audio async w/ a DAW, film scoring features. It seems idiotic to use StaffPad over Notion. The main draw is integrated libraries, no worries about all the software... just write and write. But... if I used Aaron Venture's libraries with Notion, it wouldn't take complex rules, etc... plus I could mix the template how I want. His libraries are extremely flexible. I haven't bought them, but I know I can mix them with great results. It's a long shot, but has anyone tried Notion with Infinite Brass? Just curious if it takes a lot of editing to get good results.

StaffPad is brilliant. These questions are mostly to see if StaffPad can do the basics I'd want it to do. It still likely wins anyway, but I have some reservations I just want more info on.

Thank you! 

-Sean


----------



## giwro

scoredfilms said:


> I haven't seen anyone answering or demoing some things. If anyone could add some info here, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> 1) Can I use Berlin AND Spitfire Chamber for divisi on one staff?
> 2) Are there any fast demos? Star Wars? I write a lot of fast.
> 3) Any no-reverb demos? I use close mics for fast writing.
> 4) DAW users... is it faster or slower to use? Do you record, step input, piano-roll+mouse?
> 5) Has anyone felt it couldn't decently mock-up a particular piece? Why?
> 6) Any demos of modern scoring synths in StaffPad?
> 
> By comparison... notion has great hand-writing, drawn dynamics, a very fast workflow... PLUS a mixer, VST support for fx and instruments, step input, MIDI I/O, rewire, note and audio async w/ a DAW, film scoring features. It seems idiotic to use StaffPad over Notion. The main draw is integrated libraries, no worries about all the software... just write and write. But... if I used Aaron Venture's libraries with Notion, it wouldn't take complex rules, etc... plus I could mix the template how I want. His libraries are extremely flexible. I haven't bought them, but I know I can mix them with great results. It's a long shot, but has anyone tried Notion with Infinite Brass? Just curious if it takes a lot of editing to get good results.
> 
> StaffPad is brilliant. These questions are mostly to see if StaffPad can do the basics I'd want it to do. It still likely wins anyway, but I have some reservations I just want more info on.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> -Sean



1- I don’t think you can have 2 libs on one staff simultaneously...
2 - I seem to remember hearing at least one fast demo... let me look a bit
3 - I doubt many have posted a no-reverb demo... but it is certainly possible
4 - I think the “is it faster?” question depends... is it faster handwriting than inputting notes step-time? Not for me, yet. In Finale or Dorico, I can still knock out a score MUCH faster. Piano roll... StaffPad is probably faster for me (but I want to see the real notes and rhythms, and hence I’ve not done a lot of piano roll composing)
5 - So far it has done most of what I’ve asked of it pretty well - the one piece that fell flat was not really StaffPad’s fault per se... I tried the first movement of my organ concerto, and while the Spitfire Organ sounds decent, it didn’t have enough flexibility in addressing stops... but that isn’t new - I usually have to use Hauptwerk (a dedicated organ sampler) for stuff like that. And, I’d like to see some consistency of included articulations for strings as well as brass mutes.
6 - haven’t heard any synth stuff... yet...

I think the draw for me on this is really good mockups with a lot less work futzing with a DAW and VSTi. The drawn dynamics allow to tidy up what might not be working as well, and the tempo curves do as well. I can see in the future when it gets stem export, that one could do final mixing in a DAW (as well as bring in the MIDI file to perhaps do things with other instruments it might not handle as well). Secondly, it will be nice to have a tool to sketch with while traveling...

For now, what I’m doing is flogging it with a bunch of scores (xml import) to understand what will be the best workflow (what exports/imports the best into SP). The process of editing those then is also helping me get to know the program pretty quickly. I’d say I’m pretty pleased with how it is all working so far - I’ve got another 3-4 scores to do from imports today or tomorrow, and that will help. Right now, I’d say this is like having NotePerformer, but with much more realistic results (and easier tweaking). Noteperformer allows me to do stuff quickly and get a good idea of balances and basic sound... then here to SP to get a more polished result. IMHO, if SP is this good this early on (with amazing results and some good updates already in little over a month) I’m excited to see where it goes from here. For me, at least who really hates futzing with VSTi stuff and really just wants to write music and have it sound realistic quickly, it’s been a game-changer.


----------



## dcoscina

scoredfilms said:


> I haven't seen anyone answering or demoing some things. If anyone could add some info here, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> 1) Can I use Berlin AND Spitfire Chamber for divisi on one staff?
> 2) Are there any fast demos? Star Wars? I write a lot of fast.
> 3) Any no-reverb demos? I use close mics for fast writing.
> 4) DAW users... is it faster or slower to use? Do you record, step input, piano-roll+mouse?
> 5) Has anyone felt it couldn't decently mock-up a particular piece? Why?
> 6) Any demos of modern scoring synths in StaffPad?
> 
> By comparison... notion has great hand-writing, drawn dynamics, a very fast workflow... PLUS a mixer, VST support for fx and instruments, step input, MIDI I/O, rewire, note and audio async w/ a DAW, film scoring features. It seems idiotic to use StaffPad over Notion. The main draw is integrated libraries, no worries about all the software... just write and write. But... if I used Aaron Venture's libraries with Notion, it wouldn't take complex rules, etc... plus I could mix the template how I want. His libraries are extremely flexible. I haven't bought them, but I know I can mix them with great results. It's a long shot, but has anyone tried Notion with Infinite Brass? Just curious if it takes a lot of editing to get good results.
> 
> StaffPad is brilliant. These questions are mostly to see if StaffPad can do the basics I'd want it to do. It still likely wins anyway, but I have some reservations I just want more info on.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> -Sean


I use both Notion and Staffpad. Before the latest update, I found entering notes, especially long flurries or tuplets, in Notion and then exporting to Staffpad via XML was the best for the fastest results. The piece I posted earlier has a long 16th note passage in the violins that I did this way.

since the latest update, I’m finding I accomplish most of what I hear inside Staffpad without Notion However. I’d say my piece I posted it medium tempo and more action-heroic than slow lyrical so if you have a chance, check it out. I actually substituted Spitfire Strings for Berlin because they are larger and I needed a bigger sound.

I don’t know if labelling people who use Staffpad over Notion “idiotic” is a nice thing to say- again, both have their advantages but for me, notions sounds are not good
(They were fine 15 years ago when it first debuted but after version 2, they seemed to get worse). I use Dorico and NotePerformer on my desktop which was wonderful and still is...until Staffpad came along with its integrated libraries from OT, SF and CS. Very little tweaking is necessary for truly spectacular results. I’ve written a show intro on SP and aside from applying some Ozone mastering on it, I confidently used it. No complaints about the sound quality either from the show’s creator. 

I tried a test piece out the other day between Berlin strings and Spitfire using the change instrument option on the staff. It’s probably that one could add multiple libraries using the divisi feature. I’d thought about doubling SF with Berlin strings for greater detail and density. I’ll try that in a few minutes and get back to you.

as Far as speed it’s not a straight answer. Note entry is slower than daws or Notion. But consider how long it takes to either 1. Find the right sample you want for a line or 2. Massage that line with midi editing to make it sound as good as what Staffpad can accomplish almost with no work. This is where Staffpad gains ground. And of course the methodology usually yields better results at least in my case. I can’t write in a daw the way I can using Notation based software. I’m much more focussed on the fundamentals of music using Staffpad like harmony, melody, voice leading, orchestration and structure. So much easier to see everything on a full score compared to a piano roll.


----------



## dcoscina

Used both Spitfire and Berlin Strings in this version


----------



## Steve Martin

I'd love to have this software, but a new touch screen is so expensive. I was googling for a workaround, and came across this. Has anyone used this at all?








How to Turn Any Non-Touch Screen PC Into a Touch Screen


How to Turn Any Non-Touch Screen PC Into a Touch Screen with AirBar




thehackernews.com


----------



## sundrowned

Steve Martin said:


> I'd love to have this software, but a new touch screen is so expensive. I was googling for a workaround, and came across this. Has anyone used this at all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Turn Any Non-Touch Screen PC Into a Touch Screen
> 
> 
> How to Turn Any Non-Touch Screen PC Into a Touch Screen with AirBar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thehackernews.com




I don't know about that particular device but it's not necessary to have a touch screen to use staffpad. It's actually possible with a mouse and keyboard although a bit tricky. It works pretty well with a wacom tablet plugged in though. I'm using a cheap wacom bamboo. 

Although I'd prefer if it also had note input as well as draw. I find that quicker in general.


----------



## meaks

Steve Martin said:


> I'd love to have this software, but a new touch screen is so expensive. I was googling for a workaround, and came across this. Has anyone used this at all?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Turn Any Non-Touch Screen PC Into a Touch Screen
> 
> 
> How to Turn Any Non-Touch Screen PC Into a Touch Screen with AirBar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thehackernews.com



Hi, i use Staffpad on a Standard, i7, Windows pro 64 1909 pc with a drawing tablet (intuos pro M) and it works well except that with this tablet in can't scroll horizontally, i should have bought a bamboo instead as i've read on this topic that horizontal scroll works on those tablets, but i don't know if they have multitouch capabilities...


----------



## Sean J

Giwro,
dcoscina,

Thanks for the thoughts. I suppose "fast" is the wrong way to put it. It's dry and fast simultaneously that I want to hear. The bottom line is how agile the mix can be. I'm thinking about a very experimental workflow with this.

1. Compose in StaffPad
2. Export Stems
3. Something.... else.... my secret 

It would work best if I could export fast music that's very clear still. Even then... workflow still concerns me. Sounds like I can get more written in less time in Notion, but not as fluid. I'm on the fence here.


----------



## Sean J

Btw, I too love Hauptwerk, VSL does the job, and Union Chapel has a beautiful organ but limited in sampling and stops. I play the organ. I'm also from Utah. We have more pipe organs here than the average U.S. scene. I'm used to getting a lot more organ sound than Spitfire felt was adequate. That said, I could live with Union Chapel in StaffPad. Modern Scoring Synths mitigates (does not replace) Zebra the same way for me. If I needed better organ after the fact, I'd just stem it out, DAW an organ into it and call it good.

Workflow and mix are my main concerns. Is the mix usable once stemmed? If it's too wet baked in, that really kills any flexibility later on.


----------



## Sean J

dcoscina said:


> I don’t know if labelling people who use Staffpad over Notion “idiotic” is a nice thing to say- again, both have their advantages but for me, notions sounds are not good



As Notion does the same things and more, I meant that as a "at first glance" type of comment. I absolutely see the value in StaffPad. Notion's sounds are terrible, but I was testing Notion with Spitfire at first. The rules are what make Notion a pain to use... which is where StaffPad obviously excels now. But with smarter instruments, the real need for rules is just basic settings like dynamics.


----------



## Eric G

scoredfilms said:


> Giwro,
> dcoscina,
> 
> Thanks for the thoughts. I suppose "fast" is the wrong way to put it. It's dry and fast simultaneously that I want to hear. The bottom line is how agile the mix can be. I'm thinking about a very experimental workflow with this.
> 
> 1. Compose in StaffPad
> 2. Export Stems
> 3. Something.... else.... my secret
> 
> It would work best if I could export fast music that's very clear still. Even then... workflow still concerns me. Sounds like I can get more written in less time in Notion, but not as fluid. I'm on the fence here.


The only thing I am missing is the Export individual instrument STEMS. Which I have been told by the developer that is on the near future roadmap.

My step three is Mixing and mastering in a DAW or pro tools adding, spacial separation panning, reverb etc..

To answer the rest of your questions. Please read the following about Berlin Strings. I am still getting StaffPad in my workflow but I have found that Berlin Strings have been the most responsive at fast tempos 120+. No close Mics.


----------



## giwro

So, continuing my tests - this is Berlin Strings First chairs VLN 1,VLN 2, VLA.


This is straight from screen recording... I’d like to mix it more, but it still sounds very good just like this. Quite a bit of automation layer dynamics editing...


----------



## JF

Has anyone figured out the secret to writing accidentals -- especially the natural? I have looked at the manual...but writing a natural is impossible for me.


----------



## emasters

JF said:


> Has anyone figured out the secret to writing accidentals -- especially the natural? I have looked at the manual...but writing a natural is impossible for me.



It can be challenging. I'm able to write accidentals/naturals, but it requires I zoom in (pinch) a fair amount and write it close to the associated note, about the same size. That said, I have yet to be able to have it recognize any dynamic "f" markings -- by contrast, the "p" dynamic markings are easily recognized. There must be a trick I have yet to figure out.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

JF said:


> Has anyone figured out the secret to writing accidentals -- especially the natural? I have looked at the manual...but writing a natural is impossible for me.


Two L shapes. Works every time for me. There again, I am a neatnik.


----------



## gfcgfc

emasters said:


> It can be challenging. I'm able to write accidentals/naturals, but it requires I zoom in (pinch) a fair amount and write it close to the associated note, about the same size. That said, I have yet to be able to have it recognize any dynamic "f" markings -- by contrast, the "p" dynamic markings are easily recognized. There must be a trick I have yet to figure out.


Long press just below the lowest staff line of a staff, select insert text, press “f” on the appearing keyboard. You can input any dynamics this way.


----------



## emasters

gfcgfc said:


> Long press just below the lowest staff line of a staff, select insert text, press “f” on the appearing keyboard. You can input any dynamics this way.



Thx - that's what I've been doing. Still hoping some time I can use the Apple Pencil to draw an "f" dynamic.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

These have been existing handwriting recognition issues - are they still present in the latest update?


----------



## emasters

ALittleNightMusic said:


> These have been existing handwriting recognition issues - are they still present in the latest update?



Yes


----------



## ManuManu81

Hi there, 

following this thread for quite a while now, i'am on the fence purchasing Staffpad - but it is quite an expense! Especially it is not unrealistic expanding the library in the near future with the better samples. 

So, i ask myself - is it worth purchasing at the current moment. I read a lot about recognition issues for example with Apple Pencil. I do not want so spend 100 € for an app that is quite buggy and difficult to use - except for the very attracting concept.

Additionally i'am not sure about the requirement of the additional libraries. Most of the demos on YT seem to use the extended (purchased) OT or Spitfire Libraries. But my budget is tight. So, the question is, is it worth spending 100 € for the App with the Stock Sounds only?

I'am thankful for a few impulses whether to wait (for a sale? or for further bugfixes?) or to invest right away. 

Currently i'am in the midst of the composers Course of "Artofcomposing" which is really good and i thought about using Staffpad as a "complimentary" app.


----------



## Sean J

ManuManu81 said:


> is it worth spending 100 € for the App with the Stock Sounds only?



I just got a SB2 and StaffPad.

Voice control to build a new score instantly.
Chord detection to help you see where you were/are/are-going (Fux would have killed for this app).

Thing is, composing is the #1 priority in workflow. Notion comes close and does more feature-wise... but library integration it falls very far behind. Maybe that doesn't matter to you today, but will someday. May as well start on a platform that gets everything right which the entire industry has failed at for decades. They are innovating. It's worth getting just to give them hand-writing feedback and improve it if need be. Many who complain later post that with time they find it works... they just had to change their workflow. I'll find that one out in the next few days.

Dorico/Sibelius/Finale... are engravers first, composers last. The workflow is much slower for composing. Notion has a lightening fast workflow for composing, plus handwriting on the desktop app, plus film features, plug vst support... brilliant stuff. But it's also hard to integrate your samples. Maybe sound doesn't matter to you, so Notion is as good an option as StaffPad (minus the reader app for performers). But then consider this...

StaffPad is still cheaper than all those. A lot cheaper.

If you plan on working on paper the rest of your life, you'll be working slower than everyone else anyway. So pick one and get it. My advice is to find any way you can to audition StaffPad and Notion. Try the engraving. Try step-input. Figure out what you want hands-on (the only real way to know what you'll be happy with). Even then, we change our mind a few years later sometimes when revisiting software. I have. Try it. Try it later. Learn as much as you can about each of them. It will only help you be more capable of using any tools in the end... which makes you a great collaborator.

Hopefully that helps to consider. Best of luck either way!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I must disagree with the above. Library integration matters less for composing than being able to get your notes down in a timely manner. Dorico, Sibelius, and Notion (on iPad) just work in that regard. Staffpad’s entire input model is based on handwriting. If that is not accurate 90% of the time or more, you are wasting time when composing. Unfortunately, even with working with it and learning the quirks over weeks, it still doesn’t not recognize things many times. This is not unique to me either as you can see. I agree the concept is brilliant and they could certainly be the best in the game...eventually. But if you buy right now, do not pull the wool over your eyes and assume it doesn’t have significant shortcomings.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I have heard that there is a significant upgrade coming for Notion on the iPad, and it is a lot less expensive (or at least was when I bought it). So it could be worth hanging on to see what that is like.

However, I did purchase Staffpad, and over time it and I have started to get used to each other and I seem to have less recognition problems the more I use it.

I haven't invested in any third party libraries yet, but I am hanging one to see what the new iPad Pro is like. I have a 9.7' GEN 1 iPad Pro, and I am seriously thinking of getting the 12.9" one, largely for use with Staffpad. Even if the new model isn't that much of an update, it will at least make the Gen 3 one a bit more affordable.

But I like Staffpad, i think it's more elegant than Notion, and seems to gel with me more. 

But my goodness, the playback in Staffpad is sublime.....


----------



## curtisschweitzer

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I must disagree with the above. Library integration matters less for composing than being able to get your notes down in a timely manner. Dorico, Sibelius, and Notion (on iPad) just work in that regard. Staffpad’s entire input model is based on handwriting. If that is not accurate 90% of the time or more, you are wasting time when composing. Unfortunately, even with working with it and learning the quirks over weeks, it still doesn’t not recognize things many times. This is not unique to me either as you can see. I agree the concept is brilliant and they could certainly be the best in the game...eventually. But if you buy right now, do not pull the wool over your eyes and assume it doesn’t have significant shortcomings.



It would be nice to see the StaffPad folks put out a video specifically about what their program is "looking for" in terms of some of the handwriting recognition. In my experience using it pretty heavily since it released on iOS, once I've found out exactly how it "wanted" me to draw something, its recognition has worked pretty much 90%+ of the time so long as I take care to keep this in mind. As always, I advise people that your milage may vary. This is a difficult problem to solve programmatically in addition to having a significant subjective element on the user side. It is entirely possible that some people may never "click" with it.

As for sample library integration, I can certainly understand that it is less important _for you_, but for others it could be worth quite a bit of hassle on the note entry side. I personally am so used to working with modern high-end samples that "going back" to the relatively awful playback of most engraving software is quite difficult from a compositional standpoint, so being able to use something as sublime as the Berlin series in a "compose with a pen" environment is utterly game-changing and has completely revolutionized my workflow.


----------



## PaulieDC

scoredfilms said:


> By comparison... notion has great hand-writing, drawn dynamics, a very fast workflow... PLUS a mixer, VST support for fx and instruments, step input, MIDI I/O, rewire, note and audio async w/ a DAW, film scoring features. It seems idiotic to use StaffPad over Notion. The main draw is integrated libraries, no worries about all the software... just write and write.


I already own Notion for the iPad (which is only $14.99) and I wondered the same thing... sure, it's amazing that StaffPad can incorporate tablet versions of Berlin and CineSamples and all that, but is that necessary? Is anyone doing final output from the tablet? What about the desktop systems we all dumped our life savings into? Notion features the LSO that somebody sampled for PreSonus somewhere along the line, seems like that would suffice for writing... work out your scoring ideas and then export the MIDI or MusicXML to your main DAW and really go to town with your favorite libraries and automation and all the rest of it. Additional instruments are 99 cents. Notion isn't perfect, hit an issue once where it wouldn't allow a tie into the next measure, but that isn't a showstopper when you are sketching out ideas IMO.

StaffPad looks amazing in the vids, but *90 bucks* just for the base app, and then look how much more for the libraries:

CineWinds $99.99
CineHarps StaffPad Edition $69.99
CineBrass StaffPad Edition $99.99
CineStrings StaffPad Edition $99.99
CinePerc StaffPad Edition $99.99
CinePiano StaffPad Edition $69.99
CineStrings Solo $69.99
Berlin Strings $99.99
Berlin Strings First Chairs $99.99
Berlin Woodwinds$99.99
Wow. Basically $1K total. I paid a hair less for a Cubase 10 Pro crossgrade, Dorico 3 Pro and Spitfire Chamber Strings Pro! (last two were on sale 50% off at the time, but still). I'm not discounting what StaffPad can do... that just seems like a lot of money when the nearest competitor is 15 bucks. Notion's samples are OK at best, but is StaffPad and the add-on libraries your final output you hand the director?


----------



## Mymind

PaulieDC said:


> I already own Notion for the iPad (which is only $14.99) and I wondered the same thing... sure, it's amazing that StaffPad can incorporate tablet versions of Berlin and CineSamples and all that, but is that necessary? Is anyone doing final output from the tablet? What about the desktop systems we all dumped our life savings into? Notion features the LSO that somebody sampled for PreSonus somewhere along the line, seems like that would suffice for writing... work out your scoring ideas and then export the MIDI or MusicXML to your main DAW and really go to town with your favorite libraries and automation and all the rest of it. Additional instruments are 99 cents. Notion isn't perfect, hit an issue once where it wouldn't allow a tie into the next measure, but that isn't a showstopper when you are sketching out ideas IMO.
> 
> StaffPad looks amazing in the vids, but *90 bucks* just for the base app, and then look how much more for the libraries:
> 
> CineWinds $99.99
> CineHarps StaffPad Edition $69.99
> CineBrass StaffPad Edition $99.99
> CineStrings StaffPad Edition $99.99
> CinePerc StaffPad Edition $99.99
> CinePiano StaffPad Edition $69.99
> CineStrings Solo $69.99
> Berlin Strings $99.99
> Berlin Strings First Chairs $99.99
> Berlin Woodwinds$99.99
> Wow. Basically $1K total. I paid a hair less for a Cubase 10 Pro crossgrade, Dorico 3 Pro and Spitfire Chamber Strings Pro! (last two were on sale 50% off at the time, but still). I'm not discounting what StaffPad can do... that just seems like a lot of money when the nearest competitor is 15 bucks. Notion's samples are OK at best, but is StaffPad and the add-on libraries your final output you hand the director?


As for me, staffpad is not the final output but just having the ability to hear my composition at the moment with high quality library is a really boost for creativity. I used to compose with notion but the sound and ergonomic were not for me. With staffpad and some third librairies, I don’t stop creating even if takes more time to compose. But at the end, I create more. So that is essential for me. 
May be for someone who can hear the music on his mind, the third libraries are not necessary, neither the stock sound because he doesn’t need to play it. I personally purchased BS, BW, BB and CP, and I find this sufficient. I don’t find that « too expensive » but that is just my opinion.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Mymind said:


> As for me, staffpad is not the final output but just having the ability to hear my composition at the moment with high quality library is a really boost for creativity. I used to compose with notion but the sound and ergonomic were not for me. With staffpad and some third librairies, I don’t stop creating even if takes more time to compose. But at the end, I create more. So that is essential for me.
> May be for someone who can hear the music on his mind, the third libraries are not necessary, neither the stock sound because he doesn’t need to play it. I personally purchased BS, BW, BB and CP, and I find this sufficient. I don’t find that « too expensive » but that is just my opinion.



The quality with which these libraries have been implemented has largely been superb-- and that's without recognizing the quality of the samples themselves, which is of course extremely good-- certainly as good as their "big brother" counterparts. $99 for that is a pretty amazing price.


----------



## Eric G

PaulieDC said:


> I already own Notion for the iPad (which is only $14.99) and I wondered the same thing... sure, it's amazing that StaffPad can incorporate tablet versions of Berlin and CineSamples and all that, but is that necessary? Is anyone doing final output from the tablet? What about the desktop systems we all dumped our life savings into? Notion features the LSO that somebody sampled for PreSonus somewhere along the line, seems like that would suffice for writing... work out your scoring ideas and then export the MIDI or MusicXML to your main DAW and really go to town with your favorite libraries and automation and all the rest of it. Additional instruments are 99 cents. Notion isn't perfect, hit an issue once where it wouldn't allow a tie into the next measure, but that isn't a showstopper when you are sketching out ideas IMO.
> 
> StaffPad looks amazing in the vids, but *90 bucks* just for the base app, and then look how much more for the libraries:
> 
> CineWinds $99.99
> CineHarps StaffPad Edition $69.99
> CineBrass StaffPad Edition $99.99
> CineStrings StaffPad Edition $99.99
> CinePerc StaffPad Edition $99.99
> CinePiano StaffPad Edition $69.99
> CineStrings Solo $69.99
> Berlin Strings $99.99
> Berlin Strings First Chairs $99.99
> Berlin Woodwinds$99.99
> Wow. Basically $1K total. I paid a hair less for a Cubase 10 Pro crossgrade, Dorico 3 Pro and Spitfire Chamber Strings Pro! (last two were on sale 50% off at the time, but still). I'm not discounting what StaffPad can do... that just seems like a lot of money when the nearest competitor is 15 bucks. Notion's samples are OK at best, but is StaffPad and the add-on libraries your final output you hand the director?



I have bought every single library you mentioned on Both IPad and PC so I am all in. And I have over $15K+ in DAW based sample libraries. I am using StaffPad for Audio Output to Mixing and Mastering in Cubase similar to what I did in my previous Notation Program to MIDI workflow. I have Notion, Sibelius, Dorico and all the handwriting apps out there. So I have tried them all. StaffPad is the one for me. Its not perfect but in the next several months it will be for ME.

I am close to abandoning ALL my investment in the old paradigm for what is the future for ME.

I bought StaffPad on the PC when it first came out about 5 years ago. They didn't have the playback capabilities or name brand libraries it does today which are better than any MIDI editing I can do after 8 years of working with MIDI.

I did all of this for two reasons that I know MAY NOT be important to everyone. I am not a KEYBOARDIST or a MIDI JOCKEY (MIDI is designed for TECHNICAL people not Artist). FOR ME it is not as productive or natural as NOTATION (if Scores and music theory were printed in MIDI then I would think differently).

In fact I DESPISE the MIDI workflow. StaffPAD is superior to all other notation recognition. PERIOD. I have tried ALL of them over the years. If you spend the time, recognition can get up to 90%+, but I would also argue that most peoples handwriting couldn't be interpreted by humans at 90%. (my handwriting in particular)

And ALL of the other handwriting alternatives doesn't allow me to do this on a 28" Ultra HD screen with Windows Ink, pinch to zoom, and a pen on a Surface Studio PC (i.e. write notation on a full 32+ stave orchestral score) and take it on the road on an IPad and play it with the same fidelity :


----------



## dcoscina

I went back to Dorico today to sketch out a jazzy film noir piece for a competition and found it to be a huge pain in the ass work-flow wise compared to Staffpad which I’ve almost exclusively been using for the last month. My big rig has sat idle as well. 

while I still see the value in desktop programs like Dorico for engraving and publishing,they aren’t as immediate as working in Staffpad. For me, like you, this is the medium I’ve always dreamed Of working on since my university days when I chipped away at music using pencil, manuscript and an out of tune piano.


----------



## Eric G

dcoscina said:


> I went back to Dorico today to sketch out a jazzy film noir piece for a competition and found it to be a huge pain in the ass work-flow wise compared to Staffpad which I’ve almost exclusively been using for the last month. My big rig has sat idle as well.
> 
> while I still see the value in desktop programs like Dorico for engraving and publishing,they aren’t as immediate as working in Staffpad. For me, like you, this is the medium I’ve always dreamed Of working on since my university days when I chipped away at music using pencil, manuscript and an out of tune piano.



I spent 3 weeks in December building out a complete Dorico full orchestral template using expressionmaps and Spitfire Libs etc the playback was just fragile and clunky. Not to mention ate up about 35GB of RAM. They keep adding everything to make it like a DAW. That is the problem. They are creating a Frankenstein.

No innovation comes without sacrifice. Recreating the old world to make people comfortable with abandoning their investments is not how you change the paradigm. You have to unshackle yourself from the past.

Just loaded up a Full orchestral piece, pushed Play in Staffpad on my PC and its clocking in at 500MB RAM. It sounds gorgeous. How do they do that? And I pick up my IPad Pro and push play on the same piece and it sounds gorgeous and exactly like my PC playback. How is that possible?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clarke

Based on my extensive experience with current technology and what I NEED for MY Notation based WORKFLOW:

StaffPad is Magic.


----------



## dcoscina

Eric G said:


> I spent 3 weeks in December building out a complete Dorico full orchestral template using expressionmaps and Spitfire Libs etc the playback was just fragile and clunky. Not to mention ate up about 35GB of RAM. They keep adding everything to make it like a DAW. That is the problem. They are creating a Frankenstein.
> 
> No innovation comes without sacrifice. Recreating the old world to make people comfortable with abandoning their investments is not how you change the paradigm. You have to unshackle yourself from the past.
> 
> Just loaded up a Full orchestral piece, pushed Play in Staffpad on my PC and its clocking in at 500MB RAM. It sounds gorgeous. How do they do that? And I pick up my IPad Pro and push play on the same piece and it sounds gorgeous and exactly like my PC playback. How is that possible?
> 
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clarke
> 
> Based on my extensive experience with current technology and what I NEED for MY Notation based WORKFLOW:
> 
> StaffPad is Magic.


Totally agree. It doesn’t work perfectly for me but I’m from an era where shit didn’t work half the time. I had to learn patience and work arounds. Same case with Staffpad. I love what it can do and even if it stubbornly won’t recognize a sixteeth note series I have developed a work around thanks to the improvements in adding notes to existing beamed groups.
Now I recognize that my stuff is currently being composed for concert hall and with no deadline (except the jazz piece for a competition). If I was scoring a show or whatever I’d probably still be using my DAW (and largely not writing music as sophisticated as I can in Staffpad).


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Eric G said:


> StaffPAD is superior to all other notation recognition. PERIOD. I have tried ALL of them over the years. If you spend the time, recognition can get up to 90%+, but I would also argue that most peoples handwriting couldn't be interpreted by humans at 90%. (my handwriting in particular)



Subjective statements like this, written as factual - and implying the rest of us are potentially incompetent or haven't spent the time, do current and future customers no favors. Notion has superior (albeit third-party licensed) handwriting recognition in my experience - and my handwriting is extremely legible in real life if I do say so. This is not a user problem - it is a software problem. And one if we continue to discount, Staffpad developers will never be bothered to fix. As somebody mentioned, Staffpad developers would save a lot of headache if they made more explicit videos on how to draw notation elements so that their software recognizes it 90+% of the time.


----------



## Eric G

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Subjective statements like this, written as factual - and implying the rest of us are potentially incompetent or haven't spent the time, do current and future customers no favors. Notion has superior (albeit third-party licensed) handwriting recognition in my experience - and my handwriting is extremely legible in real life if I do say so. This is not a user problem - it is a software problem. And one if we continue to discount, Staffpad developers will never be bothered to fix. As somebody mentioned, Staffpad developers would save a lot of headache if they made more explicit videos on how to draw notation elements so that their software recognizes it 90+% of the time.



I have been very explicit to state in ALL CAPS that that StaffPad works for ME. It may not work for YOU. The recognition may not be tolerable to YOU. You have a right to not find it acceptable. FACT: I spent the TIME and got the Recognition to 90% FOR ME.

FOR ME I DO find StaffPad more than acceptable and there is no statement you can say that will change my OPINION.

Perhaps you should stay with Notion that you are obviously happy with. File a support ticket or ask for a refund. But don't imply that I should to believe in something I feel is not true FOR ME.


----------



## Eric G

Perhaps this will help anyone having recognition problems. Here is a video by ScoringNotes Editor testing out StaffPad handwriting recognition. Try to duplicate his strokes and see if you get the same recognition. What part of this video fails to get recognized? And NO I don't think he gets 100% recognition.


----------



## HaidenDvim

Eric G said:


> Perhaps this will help anyone having recognition problems. Here is a video by ScoringNotes Editor testing out StaffPad handwriting recognition. Try to duplicate his strokes and see if you get the same recognition. What part of this video fails to get recognized? And NO I don't think he gets 100% recognition.




Agree, I have been using it for a week now, and I love it. Its about 90% for me as well, but I am very new to using it. This is a game changer for composers. For the first time I get to compose with great samples on my deck and enjoying the weather then coped up in my studio for hours, or at the park. All I can say is..thank you StaffPad.


----------



## dcoscina

Here's my entry for the Adam Audio contest using Staffpad as playback (I did compose most of it in Dorico incidentally). I wish the time limit wasn't just 30 second because it's hard to establish a mood and main theme in that time. Used Berlin Winds, Brass, Strings in addition to CinePerc (for ride and vibes) plus Spitfire Strings for pizz bass.


----------



## OleJoergensen

dcoscina said:


> Here's my entry for the Adam Audio contest using Staffpad as playback (I did compose most of it in Dorico incidentally). I wish the time limit wasn't just 30 second because it's hard to establish a mood and main theme in that time. Used Berlin Winds, Brass, Strings in addition to CinePerc (for ride and vibes) plus Spitfire Strings for pizz bass.



It sounds really good!


----------



## Mymind

dcoscina said:


> Here's my entry for the Adam Audio contest using Staffpad as playback (I did compose most of it in Dorico incidentally). I wish the time limit wasn't just 30 second because it's hard to establish a mood and main theme in that time. Used Berlin Winds, Brass, Strings in addition to CinePerc (for ride and vibes) plus Spitfire Strings for pizz bass.



Beautiful ! Did you use external reverb or all of this come from staffpad?


----------



## dcoscina

Mymind said:


> Beautiful ! Did you use external reverb or all of this come from staffpad?


I used the internal reverb but wish I could have dialed it down and exported stems to mix further in Cubase..oh well.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

dcoscina said:


> I used the internal reverb but wish I could have dialed it down and exported stems to mix further in Cubase..oh well.


@dcoscina It's a bit of a palaver, but you can export stems of a sort by muting and unmuting instruments and exporting them one at a time.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

hmm, saw this on youtube. 

yikes


----------



## ProfoundSilence

anyone with staffpad + berlin woods want to try plugging in a few bars of the 2nd movement of this:


----------



## Sean J

I've used StaffPad 7 days now.

95% in love with this app
5% improvement ideas
...some annoying bugs.
...still a huge milestone in music software.
...I'm convinced StaffPad is the future... if they fix the issues.

*What I love:*
* The GUI, features, options, it's all exactly what I'd want.
* Next gen intuitive: no articulation maps, no mixer
* Professional: swap instruments, share scores, etc.
* Voice-controlled template building (brilliant)
* Selection and touch-based copy/paste (Notion lacks this)
* Pen can do most everything
* Fast loading

I've met with notation devs in person and via email for years I've suggested an integrated sample library store, download and use immediately, already mapped, etc. StaffPad is truly my ideal app.

*Improvement Ideas:*
* Surface Pen button: 1 click should toggle lasso and hold for erase
(the erase icon / flipping the pen ... both feel way too slow to use)
* Callibrate— I draw 10 accents to improve/tailor recognition, etc.
* Instrument/automatable warm/bright character slider (see below)

Reasons for the character/filter slider idea:
1. Pan, reverb, & LP filter = the 3 ingredients of stage placement
2. For film percussion it's extremely common
3. Creative effects when automated
4. Scoring synths would be 100x more useful
5. Crazy useful for pianos & far-to-near panning effects
6. Mitigates having no EQ, avoid muddy mixes, an easy button
7. Fits SP's "simple/versitile/musical" mentality

I love writing music that (like panning) goes from far to near. StaffPad shouldn't become a DAW, but there's a few notation apps benefit from, like tempo tracks. A simple filter would easily make SP much more agile musically.

*Problems / Bugs / User Errors:*
* Bass Synth = sfz AND a drawn sfz to pp in bar 2 doesn't play
* SA Chamber = Staccatos don't follow dynamic marks/drawing?
* See image = A nearly inaudible pp with an mf downbeat?
(I love humanizing, but if it gets it wrong, drawing countless dips/bumps isn't a good experience)








*Overall (minus the issues & feature ideas):*

I'm new to StaffPad. The pen will obviously feel slower than a mouse or controller for now. Natural, but fast workflow? Not yet. I'll work at it. But it's worth noting that one thing I love about Dorico is that it has a lot of composition-related features to improve workflow.

The note selection abilities alone... the explode piano to selected tracks... anything that speeds up my ability to get a lot done with this pen is what I'd love to see. The more mass-edit or fast-workflow features David Hearn adds to this app, the more I'll never look back.

I believe StaffPad will get there. Hopefully soon! Truly Brilliant!


----------



## Sean J

ProfoundSilence said:


> hmm, saw this on youtube.
> 
> yikes



The post I just added was entirely based on my own experience... but I did see that video earlier today. The video covers different issues from mine, but the same types of issues for sure. To be fair, sample integration isn't exactly an easy undertaking. So I'm not one to call it a quit or anything. I love the app. Can it replace everything else? Hmmm... almost... very almost.

We'll see in the next few updates.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

scoredfilms said:


> The post I just added was entirely based on my own experience... but I did see that video earlier today. The video covers different issues from mine, but the same types of issues for sure. To be fair, sample integration isn't exactly an easy undertaking. So I'm not one to call it a quit or anything. I love the app. Can it replace everything else? Hmmm... almost... very almost.
> 
> We'll see in the next few updates.




For someone who owns neither an ipad/surface and the cost of this setup - we're talking ~1600-2 grand for a decent hand written notation tool.

One major issue i have with this entire piece of software, is the bullshit excuse that a certain pen/ect is actually needed. There is 0% reason you shouldn't be able to use this software on any pc/mac with a mouse drawing in the notes if you have to(*no rational person would do this, but obviously tools like a waycom should work - or touch screens with decent pen options.


----------



## MCS

scoredfilms said:


> The post I just added was entirely based on my own experience... but I did see that video earlier today. The video covers different issues from mine, but the same types of issues for sure. To be fair, sample integration isn't exactly an easy undertaking. So I'm not one to call it a quit or anything. I love the app. Can it replace everything else? Hmmm... almost... very almost.
> 
> We'll see in the next few updates.



I experienced the same issues presented in this video with Berlin String (not first chair) as well. Also with Berlin Woodwinds.


----------



## MCS

MCS said:


> I experienced the same issues presented in this video with Berlin String (not first chair) as well. Also with Berlin Woodwinds.



Does anybody experience these things with the cinebrass samples too? (sorry if this was adressed already)


----------



## Eric G

ProfoundSilence said:


> For someone who owns neither an ipad/surface and the cost of this setup - we're talking ~1600-2 grand for a decent hand written notation tool.
> 
> One major issue i have with this entire piece of software, is the bullshit excuse that a certain pen/ect is actually needed. There is 0% reason you shouldn't be able to use this software on any pc/mac with a mouse drawing in the notes if you have to(*no rational person would do this, but obviously tools like a waycom should work - or touch screens with decent pen options.



The devs are leveraging the technology on iOS and Windows PC for handwriting recognition, that's why. Wacom pen input is just that. Pen input. So they leveraged the technology to do stroke/ink recognition that both the Apple Pencil and the Surface Pen have built into the underlying operating system.

To have a ANY Pen work with handwriting recognition would mean to write code for EACH pen. ONLY IF there was an API for the pen to allow such development.


----------



## Sean J

ProfoundSilence said:


> For someone who owns neither an ipad/surface and the cost of this setup - we're talking ~1600-2 grand for a decent hand written notation tool.
> 
> One major issue i have with this entire piece of software, is the bullshit excuse that a certain pen/ect is actually needed. There is 0% reason you shouldn't be able to use this software on any pc/mac with a mouse drawing in the notes if you have to(*no rational person would do this, but obviously tools like a waycom should work - or touch screens with decent pen options.



I opted for a SB2 15" for mobility. It's overpriced in an already overpriced market. But after hands-on trying, it (and the MS pen over another pen I tried) was more solid in every way. Great product, bad price. I agree it *shouldn't* require more budget. But my experience was that it did... ish. I wanted mobility & large screen. After trying other devices, the SB2 quickly stood out.

My alternative was that for $300, a *19" huion screen* adds multi-touch and active-pen support (it comes w/ a pen too) to your existing setup. I read/watched great reviews. You could have a Surface Studio type experience but with any hardware you want (even VEP and server blades with a DAW if you want that too). I'd do that over a smaller-screened iPad w/ a limited OS or a Wacom. That's me.

Still, I just wanted to share that there's cheaper options at least, albeit not mobile.


----------



## Sean J

Eric G said:


> To have a ANY Pen work with handwriting recognition would mean to write code for EACH pen.



StaffPad only requires multitouch and an active pen. That can be found in many device combos.

The hardware market also discontinues products in no time. StaffPad isn't the problem here as much as hardware companies are. It's why I only trust RME for long-lasting and reliable driver support. After my iPad 4 couldn't install the latest iOS, a new iPad with barely better hardware and a massive price tag didn't make sense. 

So picking hardware for StaffPad shouldn't be a problem for compatibility sake. Quality results is a different question... to also pair w/ longevity, support, & restrictive OS or not. Such a headache.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

ProfoundSilence said:


> hmm, saw this on youtube.
> 
> yikes




I mean, I think it really is helpful to find this small issues and bring them to the developer's attention, but I'd hardly think "sloppy" is the the appropriate word here. Some of this is no different than the usual imperfections you get in any live performance-- even when working with the best of the best-- and while I'd certainly understand why someone wouldn't want to completely replace their DAW workflow while these issues persist (I for example, have not, and don't expect to in the foreseeable future), this doesn't take into account the absolutely stunning work that's been done thus far.

Sure, you can use high-end libraries in engraving programs, but the experience in StaffPad is much easier (like, single click easier). I haven't tried in a while, so perhaps it has gotten much better, but the last time I tried to use a 3rd-party library in Sibelius/Dorico, it was an absolute nightmare of endless tweaking and under-the-hood adjustments that simply weren't worth the effort-- especially given that "good enough" solutions like NotePerformer exist-- all of which gets you (maybe), to roughly the same level of sample quality, but without the ability to sit down and _just literally write music_ like you would on paper.

StaffPad isn't perfect, and I'm glad that there are people out there reporting problems (I myself have filed a few bug reports), but I think its important to keep things in context given that, even with the imperfections, StaffPad really is a pretty amazing product. Not a product for everyone-- if you don't like to sit down and write on paper, it probably isn't for you-- but an impressive achievement nonetheless.


----------



## PaulieDC

Eric G said:


> … And ALL of the other handwriting alternatives doesn't allow me to do this on a 28" Ultra HD screen with Windows Ink, pinch to zoom, and a pen on a Surface Studio PC (i.e. write notation on a full 32+ stave orchestral score) and take it on the road on an IPad and play it with the same fidelity :


That is seriously awesome!


----------



## Sean J

curtisschweitzer said:


> ...[but] this doesn't take into account the absolutely stunning work that's been done thus far.



It is worth mentioning that StaffPad isn't targeting engravers or people who were satisfied with a $90 app 5 years ago (or less back then). StaffPad is targeting those who want pro-quality mock-ups with this release. Naturally, playback issues will be at the forefront of attention right now. The reality is that this release, for most, isn't a $90 app. It's a $$$ to $,$$$ app. So the demands will be high. People will say things that sound dramatic like "this simply isn't useable" and so on... and technically, they're right. The Kontakt route costs more. But when someone pays $2,000 for an app AND proprietary add-ons... these feedback points will be of the greatest need to address.

While I am optimistic about StaffPad fixing these things... for me, this investment isn't one where I'll gladly overlook constant playback problems for a nice pen experience. The pen isn't why I bought this app. That was 5 years ago. That's all StaffPad had to address for UX back then. Now, they've grown up and will have to face grown up feedback. 

I'm not grilling StaffPad. But I don't mind letting StaffPad know they are next to my grill either. I'm hungry. I paid for a meal. I was given soup with a fork. I get bites. And you're right. The soup is amazing. But... seriously, I need a spoon. It will get there, but my stomach is loud sometimes. lol


----------



## Eric G

scoredfilms said:


> It is worth mentioning that StaffPad isn't targeting engravers or people who were satisfied with a $90 app 5 years ago (or less back then). StaffPad is targeting those who want pro-quality mock-ups with this release. Naturally, playback issues will be at the forefront of attention right now. The reality is that this release, for most, isn't a $90 app. It's a $$$ to $,$$$ app. So the demands will be high. People will say things that sound dramatic like "this simply isn't useable" and so on... and technically, they're right. The Kontakt route costs more. But when someone pays $2,000 for an app AND proprietary add-ons... these feedback points will be of the greatest need to address.
> 
> While I am optimistic about StaffPad fixing these things... for me, this investment isn't one where I'll gladly overlook constant playback problems for a nice pen experience. The pen isn't why I bought this app. That was 5 years ago. That's all StaffPad had to address for UX back then. Now, they've grown up and will have to face grown up feedback.
> 
> I'm not grilling StaffPad. But I don't mind letting StaffPad know they are next to my grill either. I'm hungry. I paid for a meal. I was given soup with a fork. I get bites. And you're right. The soup is amazing. But... seriously, I need a spoon. It will get there, but my stomach is loud sometimes. lol



Agreed. Since launch I have seen dozens of changes improvements and more importantly timely RESPONSES from the developers. So if you find something, don't complain on this forum, report it!

They also respond to FEATURE REQUESTS. From day one I wanted Multi-track Audio STEM export for Mixing and Mastering in a DAW. Well after asking yesterday about it via a Support ticket I got a response that this feature is now in development. So get your feature requests in, you might just get what you want.

With that, its a wrap for my MIDI workflow in a DAW.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

scoredfilms said:


> I opted for a SB2 15" for mobility. It's overpriced in an already overpriced market. But after hands-on trying, it (and the MS pen over another pen I tried) was more solid in every way. Great product, bad price. I agree it *shouldn't* require more budget. But my experience was that it did... ish. I wanted mobility & large screen. After trying other devices, the SB2 quickly stood out.
> 
> My alternative was that for $300, a *19" huion screen* adds multi-touch and active-pen support (it comes w/ a pen too) to your existing setup. I read/watched great reviews. You could have a Surface Studio type experience but with any hardware you want (even VEP and server blades with a DAW if you want that too). I'd do that over a smaller-screened iPad w/ a limited OS or a Wacom. That's me.
> 
> Still, I just wanted to share that there's cheaper options at least, albeit not mobile.


Is there anyone who can make a video showcasing a setup like that actually working? If I could just spend three hundred bucks to add to my already powerful machine then the software would probably be a no-brainer


----------



## Sean J

ProfoundSilence said:


> Is there anyone who can make a video showcasing a setup like that actually working?...



+1


----------



## Eric G

Not bad for no MIDI editing or Audio Mixing or Mastering.


----------



## giwro

Eric G said:


> Not bad for no MIDI editing or Audio Mixing or Mastering.




“Video not available”


----------



## jonathanparham

Eric G said:


> Not bad for no MIDI editing or Audio Mixing or Mastering.



impressive


----------



## MCS

Eric G said:


> Not bad for no MIDI editing or Audio Mixing or Mastering.



What samples did you use?


----------



## Eric G

MCS said:


> What samples did you use?


Not my mockup. According to the composer in the comments section:

Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds, Berlin Brass + Cinebrass, Spitfire Symphonic Strings (+ Cinestrings Viola for a staccato line); all Staffpad editions


----------



## Eric G

giwro said:


> “Video not available”


Perhaps its not available in your country. Try searcing for it :
*Rey’s Theme (John Williams - Staffpad mockup)

And here his the URL
Rey’s Theme (John Williams - Staffpad mockup)*


----------



## OleJoergensen

Prayer and Hope for the Future.

The music is composed in Staffpad with Berlin Strings. Tracks exported as audio files, imported to Logic where they are panned and crossed.
2nd violin panned to the right, Viola panned to the center.


----------



## Sean J

Eric G said:


> Not bad for no MIDI editing or Audio Mixing or Mastering.




The right benchmark is the real recording. It was 50% right, yet 50% not naturally balanced. The biggest difference between this and the real recording is that the real players were clearly listening to each other and adjusting dynamics... while also being a bit more expressive. StaffPad isn't far from improving their score interpretation (not at all), but it's a bit like uncanny valley. It's "so close", yet a bit unnatural.

That's a great place to be without doing any MIDI work. But tweaking is still obviously needed. If they can get it to be more out-of-box to the point of not even having to draw anything... well crap... that would just be remarkable.

Feels like the future is here. 

Now all StaffPad needs to do is drop pen-input and get Microsoft to make the Surface Book read my mind. Then again, maybe I don't want that.


----------



## Eric G

scoredfilms said:


> The right benchmark is the real recording. It was 50% right, yet 50% not naturally balanced. The biggest difference between this and the real recording is that the real players were clearly listening to each other and adjusting dynamics... while also being a bit more expressive. StaffPad isn't far from improving their score interpretation (not at all), but it's a bit like uncanny valley. It's "so close", yet a bit unnatural.
> 
> That's a great place to be without doing any MIDI work. But tweaking is still obviously needed. If they can get it to be more out-of-box to the point of not even having to draw anything... well crap... that would just be remarkable.
> 
> Feels like the future is here.
> 
> Now all StaffPad needs to do is drop pen-input and get Microsoft to make the Surface Book read my mind. Then again, maybe I don't want that.



LOL. Agreed.

MIXing and Mastering should be done by humans to taste. In that process you can do more spacial panning and other post processing. AND one Reverb setting is not good for all compositions.

But to get to this point out of the box with NO MIDI twiddling is amazing. Instrument Stem export is on the way and I just found out MIDI Marker support for film composition is also in the works.

If that comes by summer then the future will have truly arrived.


----------



## dcoscina

Eric G said:


> LOL. Agreed.
> 
> MIXing and Mastering should be done by humans to taste. In that process you can do more spacial panning and other post processing. AND one Reverb setting is not good for all compositions.
> 
> But to get to this point out of the box with NO MIDI twiddling is amazing. Instrument Stem export is on the way and I just found out MIDI Marker support for film composition is also in the works.
> 
> If that comes by summer then the future will have truly arrived.


I might be interviewing David for my podcast show Composer Conversations in the upcoming weeks. 

And yes, the future has arrived! I've not touched my MP 6,1 with all my terabytes of sample libraries since I got Staffpad. My only regret is not waiting until the latest iPad Pro came out which looks like a beast. I might sell my Air3 and pick up the new 11" Pro however. I can see this as a legit studio/business expense so it might be worth it.


----------



## Sean J

Handwriting... a second look.

Personally, I think he needs to rewrite his entire recognition code and hire out for help. StaffPad is a $790 brick for me right now. I emailed David (StaffPad) about the need to improve this and some other ideas. I'll share my example and his reply:

I went from default fast and slightly sloppy to focused... to OCD.





..NONE of these were recognized.

Before emailing David, I tried not marking the 3's. I mostly try one set of notes then tapping outside the bar to get it recognized. I almost always avoid doing too much at once, per the suggestions in his video tutorials. I've tried maybe 70 or 80 bars now, and more often than not, I'm getting results like this.

David said: "Almost always, people who are having trouble with recognition are having specific issues, which are often fixed by just tweaking slightly what they're doing - usually ever so slightly." He also mentioned the 3's and everything else I've tried (just repeating what his documentation says). He said it's better to do one group of notes right then copy-paste via the lasso. Then he concluded with this "There are a lot of tricks like this in the app; they are talked about in the documentation and videos. Also, I know recognition is a personal thing, so if you're having issues it's likely quite a specific issue to you personally --- some people simply fly along on the app and others don't. It's well worth spending time with it and learning it though. We will be pushing updates to the recognition engine of course, so it'll improve further over time."

I get the point about slight tweaks. My ppp wasn't recognized at all up front. You learn to change your behavior to the app's way. Even then, my ppp's are still recognized only 50% of the time. I haven't figured out how to consistently please his algorithms yet. That last hairpin and my last triplet reflect what I try most often in the app. I only include the sloppier examples for a second point I'll get to. My first point is simply that his code needs an overhaul.






Why I feel sloppy writing should also be recognized:

1) It's not that sloppy. JW and Beethoven are worse than my worst examples.
2) If I have to focus hard to please his app, then a mouse in Notion is still 100x faster.
3) If a human can read it, a machine should. That's the right benchmark.
4) If I never had to worry about recognition, it makes for a truly smooth UX.

I love almost everything about this app's design, layout, features, and upcoming features (film markers... great news). I'd like to talk about ideas like double/half tempo or inverse/reverse copy-pasting... things that I do in DAWs to help with theme and variation. StaffPad could have a lot more under the hood to improve the user interactions for the sake of fast workflow. It feels so close to cutting edge, but with a broken pencil. I can't reasonably see how this is user error or personal preference or learning curve,... not when my OCD examples are what I'm aiming for most and so often go unrecognized.

I love the app too much not to stick with it. If I can manage to change my mind here, I'll post another update eventually. For now, this review stands.

Studio One and Notion will remain pinned to my taskbar for now.


----------



## emasters

Certainly Notion's handwriting recognition is more tolerant and thus, feels more natural (and faster) to use. That said, spending time learning how StaffPad expects handwriting entry does help. But it can be frustrating at times. Hopefully over time David can enhance this so that it's easier to accomplish the simple things one wants to do, without to many attempts.


----------



## Sean J

emasters said:


> Certainly Notion's handwriting recognition is more tolerant and thus, feels more natural (and faster) to use. That said, spending time learning how StaffPad expects handwriting entry does help. But it can be frustrating at times. Hopefully over time David can enhance this so that it's easier to accomplish the simple things one wants to do, without to many attempts.



Right, PreSonus uses "MyScript", developed by a different company. Notion needs pen-based select/copy/paste and serious library integration. StaffPad needs MyScript and more pro-user features. Notion 7 is on the horizon. Hopefully SP can up their game in the meantime. Still, a brilliant app.


----------



## emasters

scoredfilms said:


> Still, a brilliant app.



Agreed - it's been a game-changer for me. I've wanted something like this for a very, long time. David has been responsive and fixed issues I've reported. Very interested to see where it goes.


----------



## Eric G

scoredfilms said:


> Handwriting... a second look.
> 
> Personally, I think he needs to rewrite his entire recognition code and hire out for help. StaffPad is a $790 brick for me right now. I emailed David (StaffPad) about the need to improve this and some other ideas. I'll share my example and his reply:



I really feel for you here. I hope it works out for you.

FOR ME, I do not try and use handwriting recognition for dynamics, hairpins and such. I guess you could call my approached Layered.

First I enter down my notes. That's it. During composition I am playing with notes anyway so I don't bother with all the other details (I do add rests etc with no problem). I add triplets by writing the "3" over already recognized/rendered notes so it works 95% of the time . I don't try to do it all at once. I wait until I think I am at a natural stopping point and then move to the next phase.

Then I use they tap-hold and type for dynamics as I do for typing articulations. I also use the top editing bar for hairpins like I do for trills, trems etc. Its just faster and it works every time. (frankly dynamics and slurs should be on the menu bar anyway. it would be faster all up).

And I use copy and paste a lot to avoid writing over and over (and running into recognition frustrations). I do that with MIDI in a DAW or any other notation software anyway.

I know the layered approach may not be natural for everyone. I get it. But I don't even think about it anymore.


----------



## dcoscina

Eric G said:


> I really feel for you here. I hope it works out for you.
> 
> FOR ME, I do not try and use handwriting recognition for dynamics, hairpins and such. I guess you could call my approached Layered.
> 
> First I enter down my notes. That's it. During composition I am playing with notes anyway so I don't bother with all the other details (I do add rests etc with no problem). I add a triplets by writing the "3" over already recognized/rendered notes so it works 95% of the time . I don't try to do it all at once. I wait until I think I am at a natural stopping point and then move to the next phase.
> 
> Then I use they tap-hold and type for dynamics as I do for typing articulations. I also use the top editing bar for hairpins like I do for trills, trems etc. Its just faster and it works every time. (frankly dynamics should be on the menu bar anyway. it would be faster all up).
> 
> And I use copy and paste a lot to avoid writing over and over (and running into recognition frustrations). I do that with MIDI or any other notation software anyway.
> 
> I know the layered approach may not be natural for everyone. I get it. But I don't even think about it anymore.


Looks like we are using the same methodology Eric. I’m loving Staffpad and it’s playback. Yeah, it ain’t perfect but for me, it’s doing 85% of what I need from it. And in rare cases, I plot stuff out in Notion iOS and import via XML. 

I recently added Voxos, Scoring Synths and Berlin Harps to my palette and love the sound.


----------



## stevebarden

scoredfilms said:


> Handwriting... a second look.
> 
> Personally, I think he needs to rewrite his entire recognition code and hire out for help. StaffPad is a $790 brick for me right now. I emailed David (StaffPad) about the need to improve this and some other ideas. I'll share my example and his reply:
> 
> I went from default fast and slightly sloppy to focused... to OCD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..NONE of these were recognized.
> 
> Before emailing David, I tried not marking the 3's. I mostly try one set of notes then tapping outside the bar to get it recognized. I almost always avoid doing too much at once, per the suggestions in his video tutorials. I've tried maybe 70 or 80 bars now, and more often than not, I'm getting results like this.
> 
> David said: "Almost always, people who are having trouble with recognition are having specific issues, which are often fixed by just tweaking slightly what they're doing - usually ever so slightly." He also mentioned the 3's and everything else I've tried (just repeating what his documentation says). He said it's better to do one group of notes right then copy-paste via the lasso. Then he concluded with this "There are a lot of tricks like this in the app; they are talked about in the documentation and videos. Also, I know recognition is a personal thing, so if you're having issues it's likely quite a specific issue to you personally --- some people simply fly along on the app and others don't. It's well worth spending time with it and learning it though. We will be pushing updates to the recognition engine of course, so it'll improve further over time."
> 
> I get the point about slight tweaks. My ppp wasn't recognized at all up front. You learn to change your behavior to the app's way. Even then, my ppp's are still recognized only 50% of the time. I haven't figured out how to consistently please his algorithms yet. That last hairpin and my last triplet reflect what I try most often in the app. I only include the sloppier examples for a second point I'll get to. My first point is simply that his code needs an overhaul.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why I feel sloppy writing should also be recognized:
> 
> 1) It's not that sloppy. JW and Beethoven are worse than my worst examples.
> 2) If I have to focus hard to please his app, then a mouse in Notion is still 100x faster.
> 3) If a human can read it, a machine should. That's the right benchmark.
> 4) If I never had to worry about recognition, it makes for a truly smooth UX.
> 
> I love almost everything about this app's design, layout, features, and upcoming features (film markers... great news). I'd like to talk about ideas like double/half tempo or inverse/reverse copy-pasting... things that I do in DAWs to help with theme and variation. StaffPad could have a lot more under the hood to improve the user interactions for the sake of fast workflow. It feels so close to cutting edge, but with a broken pencil. I can't reasonably see how this is user error or personal preference or learning curve,... not when my OCD examples are what I'm aiming for most and so often go unrecognized.
> 
> I love the app too much not to stick with it. If I can manage to change my mind here, I'll post another update eventually. For now, this review stands.
> 
> Studio One and Notion will remain pinned to my taskbar for now.



You didn’t mention whether you’re on an iPad or Surface tablet. I’m on an iPad so I can’t compare the two. I just did a quick test on my iPad writing a full bar of triplets. Only one note was not rendered correctly. I feel like my writing is somewhat sloppy. One difference I noticed is that I wrote all of the notes with stems down which is what is expected for notes on the middle line whereas you drew stems up. Not sure if that’s a factor.


----------



## Dewdman42

I am about to buy an iPad to use with Lemur, etc.. Nice to know StaffPad may be an option. gives me a reason to spring for an iPadPro. I don't know if I can justify the big one though, have to go with 11". How much is the actual StaffPad application? 

I don't see myself springing for those sample libs, they are a bit pricey for this particular use, they do sound good, but I don't need to hear it on my iPad that well, I just want it for sketching while I'm at my grand piano. If NotePerformer ran on it I'd probably use that for a bit of improvement over stock.


----------



## Sean J

stevebarden said:


> You didn’t mention whether you’re on an iPad or Surface tablet. I’m on an iPad...




I'm using a Surface Book 2 15". I couldn't possibly write as sloppy as your video. While I like iOS/OSX, the pencil certainly doesn't outperform the pen and Notion works just fine with my pen. As much as it may seem device related... I have a friend who got his SB2 the same day I did for StaffPad. He loves it. I'm pretty sure StaffPad's algorithm knows it's me and chooses not to like me. It has to be that!

Sigh.

The first bar was just an StaffPad glitch copying the image. 1/3 of my ties worked right, these didn't. More arch, less, flat lines, gaps, no gaps. I can't see a pattern that works.






I wrote "ppp" very neatly it added everything in the red box. This kind of crazy probably happens every 20 times I draw something. I've had accents do things like this, notes, ppp, etc.






It'll get there.... eventually. Probably?


----------



## Sean J

Just to say this... I won't keep posting every issue I have here. I just wanted any potential users to have a clear idea that the app is genius, but not perfect. I'd consider this a beta period more than anything.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I just got a copy of Nebu, which is a freenhand writing app from Myscript. It's flipping psychic. Pure Voodoo. Turning my doctor's handwriting into clean text.

There was another update to Notion for IOS yesterday, which I'll have a look at, but the user interface for Staffpad is just perfect for me.

As for the audio it produces - I just keep getting more and more impressed with it. To expect studio grade recording output is a bit silly, but it gets so close it's hard not to expect more.

As with anything, the more I use it, the more accurate I get. I had a few issues with triplets, but I seem to be able to write them in a way the app detects now - I'm not exactly sure what I've changed though.

I'm on the verge of ordering a new 12.9 iPad pro to replace my Retina MacBook Pro 2013. The only thing holding me back is the uncertainty going forward - but now I have downtime from my very busy work life, it's the perfect time for me to get some serious time in.

I still haven't bought any 3rd Party libraries, and I'm wondering what the best set to start off with would be.... Any suggestions ?


----------



## dcoscina

Michael Antrum said:


> I just got a copy of Nebu, which is a freenhand writing app from Myscript. It's flipping psychic. Pure Voodoo. Turning my doctor's handwriting into clean text.
> 
> There was another update to Notion for IOS yesterday, which I'll have a look at, but the user interface for Staffpad is just perfect for me.
> 
> As for the audio it produces - I just keep getting more and more impressed with it. To expect studio grade recording output is a bit silly, but it gets so close it's hard not to expect more.
> 
> As with anything, the more I use it, the more accurate I get. I had a few issues with triplets, but I seem to be able to write them in a way the app detects now - I'm not exactly sure what I've changed though.
> 
> I'm on the verge of ordering a new 12.9 iPad pro to replace my Retina MacBook Pro 2013. The only thing holding me back is the uncertainty going forward - but now I have downtime from my very busy work life, it's the perfect time for me to get some serious time in.
> 
> I still haven't bought any 3rd Party libraries, and I'm wondering what the best set to start off with would be.... Any suggestions ?


The Berlin libraries are quite good. Strings aren’t a huge group but sound very good and detailed.

I also have Spitfire Strings but they don’t respond quite as well as Berlin in my experience.

Berlin Brass are exceptionally good and include individual instruments and ensembles.

Berlin winds are beautiful sounding though I do find they play a bit behind the beat for faster more action based music. Legatos are sumptuous however.

I opted to buy CinePerc rather than Berlin Percussion because the former has a million (it seems) instruments and I also wanted more film score sounding percussion.

Voxos is pretty solid and I likethat it can do whispers, shouts, clusters etc. THe SATB Have only 2 syllables while the full choir patch has 30(!). Boys choir is also in this

Berlin Harps are gorgeous and much more resonant than the stock sound

finally, I got Scoring Synths which I wasn’t enamoured with in its Kontakt version but actually dig it in this context.


----------



## dcoscina

here is an example using most of these libraries composed entirely in Staffpad


----------



## jonathanparham

dcoscina said:


> finally, I got Scoring Synths which I wasn’t enamoured with in its Kontakt version but actually dig it in this context.


Been enjoying your examples as I follow the thread. Care to elaborate on Scoring Synths? I was thinking of it for my desktop. Wasn't the purpose of it to layer and accent the orchestra?


----------



## dcoscina

jonathanparham said:


> Been enjoying your examples as I follow the thread. Care to elaborate on Scoring Synths? I was thinking of it for my desktop. Wasn't the purpose of it to layer and accent the orchestra?


Yes exactly but I’m finding it decent for self contained moments calling for synth tones which I didn’t find as much with the desktop version. Again, Staffpad has adapted the library to work with the app. In a walk thru you can control filters with the automation lane which is nice. Not just volume, panning and expression.


----------



## Eric G

New update for PC version of StaffPad version 3.0.13


----------



## Sean J

Dewdman42 said:


> How much is the actual StaffPad application?



$90 as of today. My 15" SB2 is great for big scores. For sketching, anything should work.



Michael Antrum said:


> I'm not exactly sure what I've changed though.










Michael Antrum said:


> 3rd Party libraries... Any suggestions ?



We all have our own ears. My ears are better of course. j/k j/k ... sort of ... But pick what you like the sound of and the performances of most. If you want more insight into what my mentality was with these libraries, I wrote more here: https://justpaste.it/5e2eq (it gets pretty off-topic and opinionated) And of course, if you can't trust your ears then disregard everyone else's advice and trust my ears instead. 

I bought these and a couple other small libraries:

Spitfire Woodwinds
Primary: Spitfire Brass
Hrn/Trmp 3 & 4: Cinebrass
Berlin Strings
Spitfire Chamber Strings
Cinepercussion
Edit: I'll only say here that if I could go back, I think Spitfire Symphonic would have been a better choice than Berlin & SF Chamber. In my url, I explain why.


----------



## Sean J

For anyone else struggling with handwriting recognition, I stumbled on this oatmeal comic last night. It made me realize StaffPad is worth the struggle right now. It's worth giving up all the mouse-induced insanity in legacy programs. This comic really couldn't be more appropriate for this thread:

https://www.theoatmeal.com/comics/creativity_ears


----------



## dcoscina

I actually have Spitfire Symphonic Strings and while they have more density, they aren’t as expressive or agile as Berlin.


----------



## Sean J

dcoscina said:


> I actually have Spitfire Symphonic Strings and while they have more density, they aren’t as expressive or agile as Berlin.



A large choir can be more expressive in dynamics and tone richness than a chamber choir. A chamber choir can more easily express a wider range of sounds. Both libraries aren't even remotely expressive next to Aaron Venture's samples. It really depends on what one is trying to express. The ONLY real solution to this is to buy every last library that comes to StaffPad.


----------



## dcoscina

scoredfilms said:


> A large choir can be more expressive in dynamics and tone richness than a chamber choir. A chamber choir can more easily express a wider range of sounds. Both libraries aren't even remotely expressive next to Aaron Venture's samples. It really depends on what one is trying to express. The ONLY real solution to this is to buy every last library that comes to StaffPad.


I've actually layered Berlin with Spitfire for music where I need real weight *(like Mahlerian or Korngoldian type scoring). However, if you use divisi on Berlin strings and double them, that does add some extra density. I haven't noticed any obvious phasing whilst using the same sample to play unison lines either.


----------



## giwro

Short orchestral excerpt - all Berlin except the Harp, which is the standard SP instrument.


So impressed with the sound - this is with no dynamic tweaks....


----------



## Dewdman42

are most of you using the 12.9" iPad?


----------



## dcoscina

Dewdman42 said:


> are most of you using the 12.9" iPad?


I’m on a 10.5” air3


----------



## jadi

I’m on 12,9 and if there would be a larger screen I would pick that


----------



## dcoscina

I’m probably jumping up to the 11” newer model because of its specs. But I’m accomplishing everything I need right now out of the Air3 to be honest


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Dewdman42 said:


> are most of you using the 12.9" iPad?


11-inch iPad Pro. Sure, it involves more scrolling, but it is much more portable and goes everywhere with me (mostly!).


----------



## dcoscina

PaulBrimstone said:


> 11-inch iPad Pro. Sure, it involves more scrolling, but it is much more portable and goes everywhere with me (mostly!).


Yeah the 12.9” seems good for home use but I’d think it would be awkward to manage on the go...


----------



## Sean J

Dewdman42 said:


> are most of you using the 12.9" iPad?



Surface Book 2 15"... and I've been thinking I want a Surface Studio for desk use, my SB2 tablet for the couch, and a regular Surface for taking with me. Despite my handwriting gripes, I am still getting used to the app and as I do, I find myself more and more thinking that I want the app with me at all times in every convenient way possible. With this latest update working out some kinks, I'm nearly ready to start everything in StaffPad first, add more synth with Zebra and my percussion in Studio One after I'm done, and all but drop the DAW entirely. I only got the SB2-15" for the size and so I could install S1 with a breath controller, but ambidextrous screen sizes seems like the long-run choice I'll make, regardless of what it can run.


----------



## Dewdman42

you have more money to spend on this then I do. 

I would totally look at a surface pro instead of iPad except i plan to also use this for my DAW with Lemur, etc.. Also other tasks, will use it to control an X32 mixer and other things like that. I think I'm still an iPad man, but not sure. I have one friend that absolutely loves his Surface Pro, and as a power user I am a little concerned about the iPad not having everything. For example, when I travel, the iPad version of MS Excel is extremely limited.

But the question of how often I will carry this around with me is an interesting discussion. I have until today never purchased an iPad and never missed one, because I am pretty sure I would not carry it around that often like I do my iPhone which fits in my pocket. For me an iPad will just be a touch device that mostly sits in my house, my studio...possibly goes with me on trips for use on the plane and a light weight device to send emails from a hotel room. I'm not that kind of guy that would watch movies on my iPad on the couch or in bed or something. Half the time I don't even do it on the plane and I only fly half a dozen times a year at most anyway.

So for me, this device will be primarily for my DAW. And for using something at the piano to sketch ideas, and potentially read electronic scores from. The reading part is where i am pretty sure I need at least 12.9 size. For my DAW use with lemur, etc. I think I would probably prefer the 11 inch size to save space around my desk which is not limitless.

I don't think I will be carrying it around that much unless I'm going somewhere with a specific purpose for it, like on a plane ride...or on a trip where I just want something lite to keep up with email that is a little nicer then my iPhone. In recent years I have even taken some trips without my laptop at all..just used my iPhone for all that...and it was fine...though laborious to use. An iPad with magic keyboard will be much preferable for those trips. From what I understand the magic keyboard is much less cramped with the 12.9. 

But anyway, most of this is leading me to think I need the 12.9, but I'm wondering what other specific situations people think they like the 11 better or something smaller then a piece of letterhead.


----------



## Sean J

Dewdman42 said:


> you have more money to spend on this then I do.



Oh, I'm not getting the extras any time soon. I'd take a Bosendorfer over all the tech though, any day. There's a single feature I love about OSX/iOS more. This was the cheaper option for me that fit my goals.

Something you may want to consider. StaffPad was originally meant for "zoomed out" handwriting. Zooming in can actually make it harder. That can benefit a small or large screen, depending on how you think you'd use it. I just have tons of staves and always prefer real-estate (headaches w/ small screens).

Now StaffPad just needs to work on a Hololens. Staves. Staves... everywhere!


----------



## jadi

From me a Sunday morning moment created with Logic and StaffPad IOS. Piano and Flute are Stocksounds. This is intended as an intermezzo in church service.


----------



## silverlight7

Just curious, has anyone here used Staffpad to compose, and then exported it to a DAW to perfect the playback using the full versions of the sample libraries?

I can't find too much info on this topic, but it looks like Staffpad can export MIDI or MusicXML. If I imported the MIDI or MusicXML to Reaper, would I get a separate track for each instrument?

Also, would CC/automation be retained so I could tweak it to suit my taste?

I would prefer to keep the composition and MIDI mockup processes separate, and this seems to be the perfect way to do it.


----------



## Progfather

Anyone else still dealing with serious crashes on a Surface Pro 7? I literally was working on a piece, got fairly far into it, and all of a sudden my Surface blue screened, restarted, and now none of the projects are able to be opened, including the demo scores that came with the program! The recent crashes I was having when this version came out seized, and I was so happy about that and decided to by Berlin Strings and Berlin Woodwinds as of this last week... Man everything came to life. But when I just encountered this crash it was really soul crushing, because I'm starting to get invested into this product only to find out I could be severely halted from continuing a piece anytime this happens again. I'm currently reinstalling Staffpad and hoping for the best.

I'm under the impression that this product works better on iOS. If that is the case I would almost consider getting one, which I shouldn't have to considering this was originally out for Windows first, but I'm well aware of the many shortcomings of Windows and feel like I can't put the entire blame on the Staffpad team because of how much of a POS Windows 10 is.

Has anyone been able to write lengthy scores with decent amounts of 3rd party instruments and not deal with these corrupt crashes? This software is SO close on Surface, maybe iOS is already there...


----------



## Kanter

I use SP on a Surface Pro5 i5. a Surface Book 15 i7 and a desktop w10 i7 with all Berlin Libraries, no quirks like the ones described by you.


----------



## tmhuud

jadi said:


> I’m on 12,9 and if there would be a larger screen I would pick that


Lol. Same here. Then I’d get two and put them side by side on my piano.


----------



## Sean J

Progfather said:


> Anyone else still dealing with serious crashes on a Surface Pro 7?



Nothing like that on my Surface Book 2. Windows tends to need a fresh OS install to behave normally. I say this because BSOD (Kernel Panics) most often come from hardware failures. Having the latest drivers and a clean OS devoid of junk software usually has the biggest impact there. I've only had StaffPad crash when I was doing something really weird like accidentally drawing a Picasso across 10 staves. And my scores were in tact after the crash, even with the latest notes I had added (minus the Picasso). That said, I still like iOS and OSX infinitely more than Windows.  When Microsoft realizes that improving a feature is better than adding an alternative, they'll make progress. There are multiple control panels, start menus, media players, picture viewers, etc. Merely adding more isn't improving. I love my SB2, but I'd like it more with OSX. lol


----------



## Sean J

Here's a song (an arrangement) I started yesterday morning and finished yesterday. I tend to mix while composing, so this isn't "raw" at all. It isn't fully mixed either, but has tweaks for expression, volume, and a some tempo. I did pull the output audio into Studio One to roll off the highs and tweak the lows a bit, but it's very minimal.



Spitfire's Alto Flute
Staffpad's stock piano
Berlin Strings

I noticed some interesting things about doing this in StaffPad, but I'll hold off on a getting into that unless anyone's interested.


----------



## dcoscina

scoredfilms said:


> Here's a song (an arrangement) I started yesterday morning and finished yesterday. I tend to mix while composing, so this isn't "raw" at all. It isn't fully mixed either, but has tweaks for expression, volume, and a some tempo. I did pull the output audio into Studio One to roll off the highs and tweak the lows a bit, but it's very minimal.
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire's Alto Flute
> Staffpad's stock piano
> Berlin Strings
> 
> I noticed some interesting things about doing this in StaffPad, but I'll hold off on a getting into that unless anyone's interested.



nice work man! Sounds terrific too.


----------



## dcoscina

This is something I've been chipping away on Staffpad using the Berlin expansion libraries, CinePerc and Scoring Synths.


----------



## Sean J

dcoscina said:


> ...CinePerc and Scoring Synths.



Thanks! The StaffPad versions of CinePerc and Berlin are very flexible. Scoring Synths is mixed for me. I like it, but have some struggles with it. I'm working on a film theme that uses CinePerc and tries to use Scoring Synths as I can. I'll post that on here once I'm done.


----------



## geocos1

Eric G said:


> Hate to do this to you but I just tried everything you did above with a mouse and it worked so I don't know what's going on your machine. Had to do the forte a couple of times but it worked.


Are you saying you are using your mouse on your PC for staffpad?


----------



## Mymind

I just discover this another demo of staffpad. All the libraries are from OT. This is gorgeous!

I have all of the OT libraries except from the perc because I prefered CP. Is the Cine Brass worth it? Or having BB is just sufficient? What’s the difference?


----------



## dcoscina

Mymind said:


> I just discover this another demo of staffpad. All the libraries are from OT. This is gorgeous!
> 
> I have all of the OT libraries except from the perc because I prefered CP. Is the Cine Brass worth it? Or having BB is just sufficient? What’s the difference?



Some nods to Steiner’s Gone with the Wind eh? Nice piece but I prefer Berlin series. The repeated brass notes sound a little too machine gun..


----------



## Mymind

dcoscina said:


> Some nods to Steiner’s Gone with the Wind eh? Nice piece but I prefer Berlin series. The repeated brass notes sound a little too machine gun..


Yes this is a « hommage » to Steiner from David as stated in the youtube description and on his soundcloud you can hear the music played by a real orchestra for comparison. 
And yes, this is berlin series which is played in the video.


----------



## Eric G

geocos1 said:


> Are you saying you are using your mouse on your PC for staffpad?


No. I was responding to a person that stated that mouse input was not working. I am using a SurfacePen.


----------



## dcoscina

Mymind said:


> Yes this is a « hommage » to Steiner from David as stated in the youtube description and on his soundcloud you can hear the music played by a real orchestra for comparison.
> And yes, this is berlin series which is played in the video.


Whoops my bad. The brass sound like CineBrass not Berlin. Like I said, it’s a nice piece. I was just struck by the Steiner homage (something we don’t hear a lot of these days).


----------



## skt

I arranged the music of animal Crossing to staffpad.
There are many bugs and problems, but I can't wait for updates.
.


----------



## dcoscina

skt said:


> I arranged the music of animal Crossing to staffpad.
> There are many bugs and problems, but I can't wait for updates.
> .



Which expansion libraries did you use for this? It sounds terrific! 
The brass really cut through!


----------



## Sean J

skt said:


> I arranged the music of animal Crossing to staffpad.
> There are many bugs and problems, but I can't wait for updates.
> .




I've found a dozen or more bugs, but fairly small. The last update fixed any big issues. I'm very excited for future updates and sample library additions. HZ Percussion and more synths would be great. I'd love to import my own synth sample sets really.

I still can't figure out how to write a Pizz to save my life. It's not a symbol. Text doesn't populate like dynamics. I watched his symbols video and searched the help doc and nothing. The samples exist. StaffPad surely can. But can I figure it out? No.


----------



## giwro

scoredfilms said:


> I've found a dozen or more bugs, but fairly small. The last update fixed any big issues. I'm very excited for future updates and sample library additions. HZ Percussion and more synths would be great. I'd love to import my own synth sample sets really.
> 
> I still can't figure out how to write a Pizz to save my life. It's not a symbol. Text doesn't populate like dynamics. I watched his symbols video and searched the help doc and nothing. The samples exist. StaffPad surely can. But can I figure it out? No.


Pizz. needs to go above the staff.... press and type in text


----------



## Mymind

skt said:


> I arranged the music of animal Crossing to staffpad.
> There are many bugs and problems, but I can't wait for updates.
> .




I just watched some of your videos on your YouTube channel. You did a lot of good works since staffpad was released on ipad!


----------



## Sean J

giwro said:


> Pizz. needs to go above the staff.... press and type in text



Oh yeah, user error. Thanks!

I did know it belongs above the staff once. It was in my brain logged under the "don't think about this while you use a DAW for the next decade" section (probably the largest section in the library unfortunately). One of the things I've noticed about writing in StaffPad is that I'm actually thinking about my writing much more the way I should. It's just not the same as a DAW at all. It's musical. That library section I joke about, is full of information that's coming to the forefront while writing. It's wonderful!


----------



## jdrcomposer

Made a quick piece using Berlin Strings and the stock harp sound. Took about an hour and a half once I got used to the pen strokes. On iPad Pro, playback is straight out of StaffPad with no editing.


----------



## jonathanparham

jdrcomposer said:


> Made a quick piece using Berlin Strings and the stock harp sound. Took about an hour and a half once I got used to the pen strokes. On iPad Pro, playback is straight out of StaffPad with no editing.



enjoyed the piece. Fun and incredible how the dynamics behave. Like the double decrescendo like in mm9-11


----------



## dcoscina

jdrcomposer said:


> Made a quick piece using Berlin Strings and the stock harp sound. Took about an hour and a half once I got used to the pen strokes. On iPad Pro, playback is straight out of StaffPad with no editing.



Nice work man!


----------



## coprhead6

Sorry if this has been addressed,

Has anyone tried exporting from between Staffpad and Dorico? How is the accuracy in both directions?


----------



## dcoscina

coprhead6 said:


> Sorry if this has been addressed,
> 
> Has anyone tried exporting from between Staffpad and Dorico? How is the accuracy in both directions?


From Dorico to Staffpad, I would lose the articulation indications and especially dynamics. XML import doesn't like those too much. If you are exporting via Dorico to Staffpad just stick with notes only. It works well in that capacity. Haven't tried it the other way yet however.


----------



## jdrcomposer

jonathanparham said:


> enjoyed the piece. Fun and incredible how the dynamics behave. Like the double decrescendo like in mm9-11



Thanks! Yeah, the double decrescendo was read so nicely, I was impressed.

Here’s another quick piece using the full Berlin orchestra (minus harp and percussion).


----------



## prodigalson

dcoscina said:


> From Dorico to Staffpad, I would lose the articulation indications and especially dynamics. XML import doesn't like those too much. If you are exporting via Dorico to Staffpad just stick with notes only. It works well in that capacity. Haven't tried it the other way yet however.



FWIW, I had more success importing an XML in to Sibelius from Staffpad than into Dorico. I’m not sure why but in this particular score, Sibelius did a better job.


----------



## Mymind

Hi guys, do you know if it is possible to extend the screen of the ipad pro 12.9 3d generation with a second screen in order to see in a glance the whole score? I have an imac 5k 2016 and want to use it with my ipad pro. The 12.9 ipad pro has its own limit when using a large score because you need to pinch and zoom all the time. But otherwise I am always felt in love with staffpad!
Tanks


----------



## Michael Antrum

I'm currently thinking hard about whether to upgrade my iPad Pro to a new 2020, but the thing stopping me is whether to go for the 11 or the 12.9.

Staffpad's great killer feature for me is its portability, but the problem is that the size and weight of a 12.9 might be too big for me to want to carry it about with me, which would really reduce its utility to me.

I currently have Gen 1 iPad Pro 9.7", so the 11" is not an insignificant upgrade in screen size for me, but the 12.9 is obviously going to be much better for viewing scores, but at the cost of comfort and weight. I understand from some people that the 12.9 is not comfortable to hold in one hand for any reasonable period of time.

Thoughts anyone..... ?


----------



## Dewdman42

I'm still stuck trying to decide the same thing right now. Leaning towards the 12.9. I plan to also get the magic keyboard when it comes out and I have heard the 11 can be a little cramped when using it with a keyboard. For me, I don't see much difference between carrying around an 11 or a 12.9. I won't be carrying it around that much either way. 

I think later on I may wish I had the 11 for certain things... but... I can't get over using staffpad on my piano with full 12.9 screen to read it easier, etc..


----------



## prodigalson

Ive had the 12.9 for a couple years and I've never had an issue with portability. In fact, I think theres a portability argument for it because since I got it I bring my laptop out for meetings and general day to day work much less.

Also, FWIW, I bought the smaller Surface 3 when Staffpad first came out as I wanted to use it but didn't want to spring for the larger 12" surface 3. It was a huge mistake, the screen was just too small to feel like I was able to write anything other than piano arrangements. Now I'm using it on my 12.9" iPad and it's night and day.

My 2 cents


----------



## Mymind

Hi guys, do you use custom panning with the berlin or spitfire series or let just the default settings at 0 for each instrument? Thanks


----------



## gfcgfc

0 for each instrument


----------



## rgames

Does anyone know of a list of tricks to improve recognition? Especially dynamics - my success rate is about 5%. Notes are about 50%. It seems like first entering the rhythm on a middle C then moving the notes into place works best for me. It also seems like you have to enter the notation pretty quickly or it doesn't recognize it.

Definitely some neat technology though. This is definitely the future of notation software. As a decades-long Finale user I'm glad to see somebody is finally making a modern version of a notation tool.

rgames


----------



## OleJoergensen

Dynamics I type as text....


----------



## OleJoergensen

Happy Easter Everyone.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

I can no longer get portamento to work. Anyone else?
I have a message in to support, but you guys are often quicker.


----------



## Sean J

PaulBrimstone said:


> I can no longer get portamento to work. Anyone else?
> I have a message in to support, but you guys are often quicker.



Which library? Not all give you port samples. I'm switching between Berlin Strings and Spitfire Chamber, as they both handle different passages more effectively and have different features. I ran into a point where I was writing a port for Spitfire and realized I had to switch back.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

scoredfilms said:


> Which library? Not all give you port samples. I'm switching between Berlin Strings and Spitfire Chamber, as they both handle different passages more effectively and have different features. I ran into a point where I was writing a port for Spitfire and realized I had to switch back.


Just the stock library for now. It was working last week!


----------



## Sean J

PaulBrimstone said:


> Just the stock library for now. It was working last week!



Well I can tell you for certain that you have a bug then. You DEFINITELY need Berlin Strings.............


----------



## PaulBrimstone

scoredfilms said:


> Well I can tell you for certain that you have a bug then. You DEFINITELY need Berlin Strings.............


LOL. Doubtless ALL of them before too long!


----------



## Eric G

I just heard per track STEM export is coming next week.


----------



## Jakob Reinhardt

Eric G said:


> I just heard per track STEM export is coming next week.


That's excellent news - thanks Eric! I've been exporting each instrument solo-ed for mixing in Cubase...not exactly an elegant solution.

Chiming in on StaffPad's sample libraries. Unfortunately there are a lot of bugs within the CineStrings Solo library and from what I've seen in some of the Berlin libraries as well. I've reported the bugs I found (phantom notes, dynamic jumps, re-articulations,etc...) to David and I must say that he has been very responsive and appreciative of the feedback. This makes me optimistic for the future of the program. David mentioned that a future update should take care of some of the bugs I've found. 
My advice for those of you interested in the CineStrings Solo library: Wait until the major bugs are fixed. The samples themselves sound solid and I think the price will be justified once the current issues are taken care of.

Note entry has been working brilliantly for me. I created a short video explaining how I got staffpad to recognize my penmanship. I hope some of you might find it helpful:


----------



## jonathanparham

Jakob Reinhardt said:


> Note entry has been working brilliantly for me. I created a short video explaining how I got staffpad to recognize my penmanship. I hope some of you might find it helpful:



Very Helpful with the dynamic markings. Similarly to you, I just started typing them in with the onscreen keyboard. I think it's important to 'learn' how staffpad wants thinks like 'two strokes' for certain items. 

Also, one thing I noticed in your video is; you have your tablet at an angle. The more I work in staffpad the more I found I cannot lay it on a desk like staff 'paper'. Even with disabling the home button on my MS surface pro, I still had issues of my palm resting certain places.

I've been trying to do my new score practice in staffpad and just really forcing myself to write things over and over. I'm a gen Xer and I wonder if it's like grammar or elementary school with handwriting exercises; you just have to do it over and over.

More of these please lol

Thanks


----------



## MisteR

One of the two or three reasons I just bought an iPad Pro was for notation. I set out this morning to learn how Staffpad wants me to write. Still a frustrating experience. I shouldn’t have to do that. Tried Notion hand recognition and it just worked. Other than that, staffpad sounds amazing and has a better workflow. But for a hand recognition only program, this is not a small problem. And it is a problem. I trust they are on it.


----------



## Sean J

MisteR said:


> One of the two or three reasons I just bought an iPad Pro was for notation. I set out this morning to learn how Staffpad wants me to write. Still a frustrating experience. I shouldn’t have to do that. Tried Notion hand recognition and it just worked. Other than that, staffpad sounds amazing and has a better workflow. But for a hand recognition only program, this is not a small problem. And it is a problem. I trust they are on it.



They are. The new report feature speaks to that. But if you see my earlier posts on the thread, I went from agreeing with you completely (even saying that a learning curve speaks to whether the app could be fast to use even if learned) to a point where I'm now flying in the app. Eric G made a good point about how the good out-of-box performance makes up for editing time, but in all honesty... I don't think it even matters. I'm fast enough in StaffPad that I'm flying _even_ with being OCD about the performance. I've written more music and better music using StaffPad than I have in Cubase, in less time.... with only the exception that the limit of libraries is an issue for some sound design. But that's changing with more stuff coming out in the future. So no biggy for me.

So I sympathize, but I also suggest keeping at it. Sometimes you learn that the app wants it a certain way and it seems odd. Then eventually you realize there is a reason why. I've drawn a "P" in cases that became whole notes because the 'stem' wasn't long enough. Makes sense why that would be hard for a computer to differentiate. I use the tap-in method more for dynamics mostly now, but my note drawing is definitely flying.


----------



## brandowalk

MisteR said:


> One of the two or three reasons I just bought an iPad Pro was for notation. I set out this morning to learn how Staffpad wants me to write. Still a frustrating experience. I shouldn’t have to do that. Tried Notion hand recognition and it just worked. Other than that, staffpad sounds amazing and has a better workflow. But for a hand recognition only program, this is not a small problem. And it is a problem. I trust they are on it.


 Understand the frustration and I think many, including myself, have gone through it. I almost gave up on it after 2 or 3 days but glad I stuck with it. I’m now hooked on the app and is a game changer for me for producing a speedier conductor score, parts, and audio recording output.

Jakob’s video earlier today is a helpful one for tips on handwriting.You will learn tricks and techniques as you use it to speed up the process. Hope you get it working as well.


----------



## MisteR

I’ll keep at it, thanks.


----------



## dcoscina

It’s almost like learning an instrument. You develop work flow that does the best for you. And like so many others have said, the quality of my music on Staffpad is leagues better than on daws because orchestral composing is in its natural element in notation. And the sound expansions are flipping phenomenal.


----------



## MisteR

dcoscina said:


> It’s almost like learning an instrument.


Agreed. But the hand recognition should not be that way.


----------



## rgames

It can definitely improve in the quality of its recognition. I'm still much faster in Finale because I spend so much time erasing and re-writing in Staffpad. Hopefully they're working on that. This is a PERFECT opportunity for machine learning to show its stuff.

You shouldn't have to adapt your behavior to it. It should adapt to you. I have a few decades of handwriting under my belt and I'm only going to change so much (i.e. not much). But my chicken scratch is pretty consistent. Theat means ML can be used to adapt the recognition process to my manuscript.

For those of you having success, are you on Windows or iOS? I'm on iOS. I wonder if the Windows version is better at recognition.

rgames


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Jakob Reinhardt said:


> That's excellent news - thanks Eric! I've been exporting each instrument solo-ed for mixing in Cubase...not exactly an elegant solution.
> 
> Chiming in on StaffPad's sample libraries. Unfortunately there are a lot of bugs within the CineStrings Solo library and from what I've seen in some of the Berlin libraries as well. I've reported the bugs I found (phantom notes, dynamic jumps, re-articulations,etc...) to David and I must say that he has been very responsive and appreciative of the feedback. This makes me optimistic for the future of the program. David mentioned that a future update should take care of some of the bugs I've found.
> My advice for those of you interested in the CineStrings Solo library: Wait until the major bugs are fixed. The samples themselves sound solid and I think the price will be justified once the current issues are taken care of.
> 
> Note entry has been working brilliantly for me. I created a short video explaining how I got staffpad to recognize my penmanship. I hope some of you might find it helpful:



I enjoyed your helpful video, thanks. But boy, I now have a crick in my neck...


----------



## jdrcomposer

dcoscina said:


> It’s almost like learning an instrument. You develop work flow that does the best for you. And like so many others have said, the quality of my music on Staffpad is leagues better than on daws because orchestral composing is in its natural element in notation. And the sound expansions are flipping phenomenal.



I absolutely agree. I am not able to write as well as I am in Sibelius or Logic. I’m importing a piece I wrote a few months ago, and while the mock up produced sounds great, it just doesn’t have as good of a flow or sense of melody as what I write directly in StaffPad. Absolutely inspiration magic


----------



## dcoscina

MisteR said:


> Agreed. But the hand recognition should not be that way.


Well it's a pretty young app for iPad OS. Just a month or over. I interviewed David last week (podcast with my chat with him should be up shortly which I will put a link on here). He's very actively updating and adding new features. He's also very receptive to customer feedback. I think the future looks very bright for Staffpad. We all must be a bit patient.


----------



## prodigalson

rgames said:


> It can definitely improve in the quality of its recognition. I'm still much faster in Finale because I spend so much time erasing and re-writing in Staffpad. Hopefully they're working on that. This is a PERFECT opportunity for machine learning to show its stuff.
> 
> You shouldn't have to adapt your behavior to it. It should adapt to you. I have a few decades of handwriting under my belt and I'm only going to change so much (i.e. not much). But my chicken scratch is pretty consistent. Theat means ML can be used to adapt the recognition process to my manuscript.
> 
> For those of you having success, are you on Windows or iOS? I'm on iOS. I wonder if the Windows version is better at recognition.
> 
> rgames


 
Back when Staffpad first was released on the Surface, I have a memory of them claiming that Staffpad learned your habits when it "failed" at recognizing and then you corrected it so there was some machine learning involved. There doesn't seem to be mention of that though in the new release either on iOS or Windows so not sure if its no longer the case or ever was in the first place. But I remember it pretty specifically...


----------



## jonathanparham

I believe someone mentioned this earlier in the thread. On the old version, you could walk through a series of steps to show the app what it didn't recognize ie note head, stem, etc. In this version, the software just shows orange representing pending. You can 'report'? the bar you're having trouble with, but that's about it. I just undo or erase and keep going.


----------



## Sean J

MisteR said:


> Agreed. But the hand recognition should not be that way.



I agree, but...

Ideally, recognition and playback should always be flawless. Ideally. That level of great UI tends to take years of oil-tanker sized code though. I want everyone using StaffPad so it has more $$$ backing it's development than every DAW on the planet. I'd love that. Intuitive recognition definitely matters. Having adapted (like a Borg), my primary interests have shifted though. Timecode, staff groups and fast visibility control, and better selection-based edit tools: reverse, double/half tempo, etc.

David is the best person to decide how important recognition improvements are though. He has the full picture of feedback and dev needs.

A couple years back, I once pestered Dorico's devs, saying something like "Look, I'm being easy on you... if you understood good UX at all, you'd have a store with integrated libraries upon purchase and download while using the app. Users don't want maps!" Even earlier in 2015, I suggested VSL develop a DAW with a sample store. It's on the public forums. I'm not taking credit for the idea. Couldn't care less even if I was the first to suggest it (doubt I was). But note that devs were telling me the industry was light-years away from anything like that. That obviously wasn't true. The problem was that they had VERY different priorities than I did as a user. Dorico's workflow is obviously engraver focused far more than composer, so I don't pull their teeth on anything anymore. David Hearn is the only guy I'll be harassing form now on, and I doubt I'll bother him that much with a few more tweaks. StaffPad took a mere week to become my all-time favorite music application.

For StaffPad's sake, I want better recognition (thus I agree with you).... but... for my sake, just give me more features baby cause this ship has sailed! lol


----------



## toomanynotes

MisteR said:


> One of the two or three reasons I just bought an iPad Pro was for notation. I set out this morning to learn how Staffpad wants me to write. Still a frustrating experience. I shouldn’t have to do that. Tried Notion hand recognition and it just worked. Other than that, staffpad sounds amazing and has a better workflow. But for a hand recognition only program, this is not a small problem. And it is a problem. I trust they are on it.


Why not save yourself a headache? What can Staffpad do that Notion can't? I keep an ipad just for Notion...but the only reason I would port to another software is to get rid of apple from my devices and use windows tablet.


----------



## dcoscina

toomanynotes said:


> Why not save yourself a headache? What can Staffpad do that Notion can't? I keep an ipad just for Notion...but the only reason I would port to another software is to get rid of apple from my devices and use windows tablet.


Play back music at near finished quality rendering that’s what. Notions sound library sounds barely adequate by comparison and unless you always know you’re going to get a performance by real musicians from your music, Staffpad offers a lot more in the way of sonic realism. And once you grasp the methodology it’s even faster than Notion. This is coming from someone who has used Notion since it’s inception and I’m very fast on it. And I still like the program a lot btw! But Staffpad is on a whole other level.


----------



## gfcgfc

“Play back music at near finished quality rendering that’s what”
“Staffpad is on a whole other level”


100% agree (Notion user since 2009).


----------



## Eric G

toomanynotes said:


> Why not save yourself a headache? What can Staffpad do that Notion can't? I keep an ipad just for Notion...but the only reason I would port to another software is to get rid of apple from my devices and use windows tablet.


I have posted this before, but I can't help myself.

Notion can't let me do this: 28 inch touch screen on a Surface Studio, tilt screen, pinch to zoom, pen input creating a Full orchestral score. (and then take this score, simultaneously shared on a cloud drive and play it on my IPad with the exact same fidelity):

I finally feel like I am composing like the old masters and its breathtaking.


----------



## dcoscina

Eric G said:


> I have posted this before, but I can't help myself.
> 
> Notion can't let me do this: 28 inch touch screen on a Surface Studio, tilt screen, pinch to zoom, pen input creating a Full orchestral score. (and then take this score, simultaneously shared on a cloud drive and play it on my IPad with the exact same fidelity):
> 
> I finally feel like I am composing like the old masters and its breathtaking.


Nice! I wish Apple would come out with the iCanvas or iEsle or something that offers the same large display for iPad OS. But then again, it would be $6000 since the Surface Studio is a fare chunk of change itself....


----------



## Sean J

Eric G said:


> I have posted this before, but I can't help myself.



Like my post if you feel that "bumping someone off" to "obtain" their Surface Studio is perfectly acceptable to you. (assume I liked this myself too)


----------



## Sean J

Eric G said:


> I have posted this before, but I can't help myself.



Eric, I'd like to take this time to _officially _state that I would never call for anyone to be assassinated in order to obtain their gloriously awesome computer. I _officially _am not calling for anyone's demise. I may be fine wishing you were my next door neighbor though..............................


----------



## gussunkri

Has anyone tried Staffpad with an iPad Air third generation?


----------



## Eric G

scoredfilms said:


> Eric, I'd like to take this time to _officially _state that I would never call for anyone to be assassinated in order to obtain their gloriously awesome computer. I _officially _am not calling for anyone's demise. I may be fine wishing you were my next door neighbor though..............................


LMAO


----------



## Kanter

To Eric G- nice setup! Do you not bemoan the (temporary) loss of Dial functions with Staffpad? I have been in touch with David Hearn about this and he assures it's coming back shortly.
I have SP5 and SB2, the basic wheel functions are supposed to work on both but the "wheel on screen" stamp thingie only on the Surface Pro, which unfortunately I got only lately, so I have yet to experience that way of working with the Surface Dial in Staffpad. Were you ever able to get that going on your big screen?


----------



## toomanynotes

Eric G said:


> I have posted this before, but I can't help myself.
> 
> Notion can't let me do this: 28 inch touch screen on a Surface Studio, tilt screen, pinch to zoom, pen input creating a Full orchestral score. (and then take this score, simultaneously shared on a cloud drive and play it on my IPad with the exact same fidelity):
> 
> I finally feel like I am composing like the old masters and its breathtaking.


cool, still nothing I can't do or have done on a modest 9.7inch ipad and an index finger with notion and then heard my work performed abbey studios. If you had mentioned the implication of great sound sample packs...then I would have given it a few mins thought of an argument against. it's not size that matters, its what you can do with it.


----------



## Gingerbread

Whelp, I took the plunge today and bought Staffpad for my iPad Pro (the 10.5").

Thanks to tips from commenters here, and especially the video by Jakob a couple pages back, it took no time at all to comfortably master drawing notes and (most) symbols. Literally, within 10 minutes, I was drawing every type of note, rests, etc. with ease, both on the staff, and ledger-line notes as well.

Reading this thread, I knew that the app is strict in how it wants the user to draw notes and symbols, so I paid close attention to how Jakob was doing it in his video, and it's a breeze! So....thank you Jakob! The app is friggin' awesome.

The only thing I can't consistently do at all is write in dynamics. So I'm typing those in for now.

Anyway, just wanted to thank the commenters here for their tips and knowledge. Looking forward to making music with this thing!


----------



## Gingerbread

I'll probably mention this to the developer, but I do think he (the developer) is doing himself a grave disservice by making the drawing of notes look "too" easy in all his tutorial videos. He's making them from the standpoint of an expert user, dashing off notes very quickly without much explanation.

But he needs to understand that his app is strict-as-hell in how notes and symbols are drawn. Someone who didn't have the benefit of watching Jakob's excellent tutorial would be very frustrated and probably give up. This thread is proof of that---seems like at least 50% of people gave up. And that's too bad, because it's _not hard_ to draw them properly....you just have to _know_, and be _mindful of,_ certain important details when drawing. Once I knew, it took me no more than a few minutes to get very good, consistent results.


----------



## Mymind

I can say that after a month using staffpad a lot, I have no major difficulty to use it. My workflow has improved so much that when I have an idea in mind, it take me just few time to write it. When I think about it, I can’t believe how fast I’m using it know compared to one month ago. It’s definitely a matter of habits.


----------



## Mymind

A new demo by DWH!
Am I dreaming or did you also notice another instruments/librairies on the demo?


----------



## giwro

Mymind said:


> A new demo by DWH!
> Am I dreaming or did you also notice another instruments/librairies on the demo?



You aren’t dreaming.... his last email to me mentioned several new libs coming soon.


----------



## dcoscina

When I spoke with David Hearn about Staffpad last week, he said Nick Dodd uses the Studio and is a beast on it. He also says Dodd can write a full piece of music down in the time it takes him to boot up his Mac. Lol. That’s the quote of the year!


----------



## Gingerbread

Has anyone here bought the Berlin Brass module for Staffpad? How has your experience with it been, in this context?

The sound, I know, is beautiful, but the main complaint for the regular PC version is that the volume/dynamics balances are quite inconsistent, with some louder than others. Does the Staffpad version have the same problems?


----------



## jonathanparham

Eric G said:


> I have posted this before, but I can't help myself.
> 
> Notion can't let me do this: 28 inch touch screen on a Surface Studio, tilt screen, pinch to zoom, pen input creating a Full orchestral score. (and then take this score, simultaneously shared on a cloud drive and play it on my IPad with the exact same fidelity):
> 
> I finally feel like I am composing like the old masters and its breathtaking.


Impressive setup and What I like about the software is you can use it on the 28 inches or an old used surface pro (my device).

You have indirectly answered something I was going to email the developer about. If I understand your post you mention having the same 'fidelity' as you move between devices. So are you saying if I buy Berlin Brass on one device, write music with it, you have access to Berlin Brass on the other device? Is that just playback on the other device or I can 'write' using instruments purchased on the other device?


----------



## dcoscina

gussunkri said:


> Has anyone tried Staffpad with an iPad Air third generation?


That’s what I have and it runs fine. When I’m running a ton of Berlin and Spitfire libraries, it doesn’t render without crashing but David said they are going to fix that bug in an upcoming update (something about how the app and iOS deal with memory- the Air3 has the same 4gb of ram as the pre 2020 iPad pros). 
and to be clear this only happened with one track I wrote that had Berlin Strings, Winds, Brass, CinePerc, and Scoring Synths. Aside from that, even pretty large groups run fine on the Air


----------



## Mymind

giwro said:


> You aren’t dreaming.... his last email to me mentioned several new libs coming soon.


WOW
Good news but not for my wallet 😄


----------



## Mymind

dcoscina said:


> When I spoke with David Hearn about Staffpad last week, he said Nick Dodd uses the Studio and is a beast on it. He also says Dodd can write a full piece of music down in the time it takes him to boot up his Mac. Lol. That’s the quote of the year!


When will you let us hear your interview with David? 🙂


----------



## gfcgfc

Mymind said:


> A new demo by DWH!
> Am I dreaming or did you also notice another instruments/librairies on the demo?




Which library ? (I can’t figure out). Thx


----------



## Mymind

gfcgfc said:


> Which library ? (I can’t figure out). Thx


I am not sure but seems like big band library


----------



## thevisi0nary

I’m sure this was asked but 37 pages is a lot to unpack. Can someone tell me how this compares to the Notion iOS app? I wanted to like it but found Notion extremely cumbersome, and there isn’t exactly a trial I can do for Staffpad.

looking mainly for ease of use, not sound.


----------



## gfcgfc

Mymind said:


> I am not sure but seems like big band library



Just curious. Where in the score you noticed it ? 
Sometime ago David told me Glory Days would have joined the Staffpad libraries family.
Can’t wait


----------



## nilblo

thevisi0nary said:


> I’m sure this was asked but 37 pages is a lot to unpack. Can someone tell me how this compares to the Notion iOS app? I wanted to like it but found Notion extremely cumbersome, and there isn’t exactly a trial I can do for Staffpad.
> 
> looking mainly for ease of use, not sound.


I actually like Notion a lot. Both in Windows 10 on big pen & touch screen and on an iPad Pro 2019 with Apple pen. Though I have Staffpad since the debut of the software, I like the ability to sometimes "noodle" on a Midi keyboard - which you can in Notion.


----------



## dcoscina

nilblo said:


> I actually like Notion a lot. Both in Windows 10 on big pen & touch screen and on an iPad Pro 2019 with Apple pen. Though I have Staffpad since the debut of the software, I like the ability to sometimes "noodle" on a Midi keyboard - which you can in Notion.


I know a few people who have gone back to noodling on the piano with Staffpad on their tablet resting on the music rest. I think this is a great solution. It also helps improve sight reading and general theory IMO. Voice leading is flat out exposed with you are confronted with notes on a page.

And slightly off topic, here's a small excerpt from Silvestri's Predator using only Staffpad sounds (well, the Berlin and CineSamples expansions).


----------



## thevisi0nary

nilblo said:


> I actually like Notion a lot. Both in Windows 10 on big pen & touch screen and on an iPad Pro 2019 with Apple pen. Though I have Staffpad since the debut of the software, I like the ability to sometimes "noodle" on a Midi keyboard - which you can in Notion.



That's cool. The main reason I'm interested in an app like this is to just practice writing with notation to become more comfortable with it over time (I'm self taught guitar originally, so you know how that goes lol). I've really wanted something that just had super simple and fluid note handling, which for all it's positives I didn't feel Notion had. Hoping to find out if Staffpad is simple, I don't like to go in and out of menus constantly.


----------



## dcoscina

thevisi0nary said:


> That's cool. The main reason I'm interested in an app like this is to just practice writing with notation to become more comfortable with it over time (I'm self taught guitar originally, so you know how that goes lol). I've really wanted something that just had super simple and fluid note handling, which for all it's positives I didn't feel Notion had. Hoping to find out if Staffpad is simple, I don't like to go in and out of menus constantly.


There are certainly less menus with Staffpad. I’ve been using Notion since 2005 and while it’s a great app, playback isn’t really good and I don’t love all the menus in iOS. Staffpad is much more direct and sonically it sounds pretty dammed amazing


----------



## Altauria

I'd love to hear any feedback from left-handers. As others know very well, even everyday hardware usage (iPhone lock buttons, etc.) can be a PITA.

Another great addition in the future would be able to output MIDI - like Lemur meets notation, inputting realtime data directly into a corresponding/auxiliary DAW.


----------



## gfcgfc

I’m on iPad and I’m left handed. After a bit of adaptation I’m quite fluid. 
Only problem are eighth note rest and natural symbol.....


----------



## dcoscina

gfcgfc said:


> I’m on iPad and I’m left handed. After a bit of adaptation I’m quite fluid.
> Only problem are eighth note rest and natural symbol.....


same here. Lefty and when I first tried Staffpad on the Surface in 2016, it wasn't as good. But it's definitely a force to be reckoned with. I love the practically finished-quality rendering from it. And it's going to export stems shortly according to David. I do hope he adds Berlin Brass mutes to the upcoming library options.


----------



## gfcgfc

“ I do hope he adds Berlin Brass mutes to the upcoming library options”

+1


----------



## Michael Antrum

I've just bitten the bullet and ordered the new 2020 256gb 12.9" iPad. I've been scanning all my old stuff into Forscore, and on my trusty iPad Pro 9.7 its just too small to read. So I can see this replacing hawking about all my sheets too. Who needs to eat anyway ?

But let's not beat around the bush, if it hadn't been for Staffpad, I wouldn't have upgraded. However, purchases of the any third party sample libraries have been well and truly kicked down the road. My first would have been either Berlin Strings or Spitfire Symphonic Strings, but I now have more time to think about the particular conumdrum.

And whilst I am waiting for it to arrive, I've just got a copy of the full score of Cavalleria Rusticana to blatantly steal from study from.


----------



## Gingerbread

I got Berlin Strings. Now for brass, which would be better: Berlin Brass vs Spitfire Brass?

Doing mostly Williams-ish type stuff. But not necessarily exclusively.

Based on people's experience using Berlin Brass or Spitfire Brass on StaffPad, which would be the recommendation if you could only choose one?

(I've got CineBrass on the PC, but deliberately wanting to try out different stuff on StaffPad).


----------



## dcoscina

I’m partial to Berlin Brass because it comes with separate brass instruments and ensembles. This is one of the few libraries where you can write true divisi because they sampled each instrument ie horn 1,2,3,4 all separate players and models which creates a superb unison as well as brass chorale writing


----------



## thevisi0nary

So here's a question, any idea of how Staffpad performs on ios vs a windows tablet like a Surface Pro 7?


----------



## Eric G

jonathanparham said:


> Impressive setup and What I like about the software is you can use it on the 28 inches or an old used surface pro (my device).
> 
> You have indirectly answered something I was going to email the developer about. If I understand your post you mention having the same 'fidelity' as you move between devices. So are you saying if I buy Berlin Brass on one device, write music with it, you have access to Berlin Brass on the other device? Is that just playback on the other device or I can 'write' using instruments purchased on the other device?



No you have to purchase it twice. Once on IOS on IPad and once on Windows PC. 

So I can use it on my Surface Book\Tablet and Surface Studio without purchasing again. All Windows Devices share the same library purchase. Its only when you cross operating systems.


----------



## Eric G

dcoscina said:


> I know a few people who have gone back to noodling on the piano with Staffpad on their tablet resting on the music rest. I think this is a great solution. It also helps improve sight reading and general theory IMO. Voice leading is flat out exposed with you are confronted with notes on a page.
> 
> And slightly off topic, here's a small excerpt from Silvestri's Predator using only Staffpad sounds (well, the Berlin and CineSamples expansions).



You are doing exactly what I have been doing. I have some Giacchinno and JNH scores I am playing with now. I have been waiting for STEM export to finalize my workflow. Looking forward to this week.


----------



## jdrcomposer

Altauria said:


> I'd love to hear any feedback from left-handers. As others know very well, even everyday hardware usage (iPhone lock buttons, etc.) can be a PITA.
> 
> Another great addition in the future would be able to output MIDI - like Lemur meets notation, inputting realtime data directly into a corresponding/auxiliary DAW.



Leftie here. Haven’t run into any problems because of it (I smudge when I write with pen, so I was worried about selecting or dragging when I don’t mean to, but haven’t experienced this)


----------



## jonathanparham

dcoscina said:


> I know a few people who have gone back to noodling on the piano with Staffpad on their tablet resting on the music rest.


lol go back? I, depending on the style, usually have keyboard, short score, then perform into the DAW. Staffpad WITH the new sounds is changing that for me


Eric G said:


> No you have to purchase it twice. Once on IOS on IPad and once on Windows PC.
> 
> So I can use it on my Surface Book\Tablet and Surface Studio without purchasing again. All Windows Devices share the same library purchase. Its only when you cross operating systems.


Ok so the SAME operating system. Good to know. Thanks


----------



## rgames

I think what would really speed up my workflow is something like this:

For items it can't identify within the staff, put a box around it. Then you press/hold on the box and a pop-up menu comes up with options. Even if it can't discern a quarter note from an eighth note it should at least be able to figure out that it's a note and not, say, a dynamic marking because you don't write dynamics in the staff. So it should be able to give you a list of options - quarter/eighth/sixteenth/sharp/flat/whatever.

If it's in the staff there are only a few things that it could possibly be. So create a pop-up box that lists those things. If it's below/above the staff it gets trickier. But not in the staff.

Such a feature would probably double my note entry speed. As it is right now I don't even enter ledger lines - I usually write it out within the staff then drag the notes to the correct pitch.

rgames


----------



## Gingerbread

rgames said:


> I think what would really speed up my workflow is something like this:
> 
> For items it can't identify within the staff, put a box around it. Then you press/hold on the box and a pop-up menu comes up with options. Even if it can't discern a quarter note from an eighth note it should at least be able to figure out that it's a note and not, say, a dynamic marking because you don't write dynamics in the staff. So it should be able to give you a list of options - quarter/eighth/sixteenth/sharp/flat/whatever.
> 
> If it's in the staff there are only a few things that it could possibly be. So create a pop-up box that lists those things. If it's below/above the staff it gets trickier. But not in the staff.
> 
> Such a feature would probably double my note entry speed. As it is right now I don't even enter ledger lines - I usually write it out within the staff then drag the notes to the correct pitch.
> 
> rgames


Yeah, I find that one thing it consistently gets wrong is it won't recognize an eight-note rest, and puts in a quarter-note rest instead. After the 3rd or 4th bad attempt with no relief in sight, I usually start wishing there were a menu item I could just select.


----------



## Mymind

gfcgfc said:


> Just curious. Where in the score you noticed it ?
> Sometime ago David told me Glory Days would have joined the Staffpad libraries family.
> Can’t wait


At 38 sec the instruments used are not familiar to my ears but perhaps I am wrong.


----------



## jonathanparham

rgames said:


> Such a feature would probably double my note entry speed. As it is right now I don't even enter ledger lines - I usually write it out within the staff then drag the notes to the correct pitch.
> 
> rgames


Aye. This is where I stumble; writing above and below the staff.


----------



## dcoscina

Mymind said:


> At 38 sec the instruments used are not familiar to my ears but perhaps I am wrong.


In one of his time lapse demos on YT, you can see in the Instrument selection window some of the upcoming libraries that will be available for Staffpad. Glory Days is one of them.


----------



## dcoscina

rgames said:


> I think what would really speed up my workflow is something like this:
> 
> For items it can't identify within the staff, put a box around it. Then you press/hold on the box and a pop-up menu comes up with options. Even if it can't discern a quarter note from an eighth note it should at least be able to figure out that it's a note and not, say, a dynamic marking because you don't write dynamics in the staff. So it should be able to give you a list of options - quarter/eighth/sixteenth/sharp/flat/whatever.
> 
> If it's in the staff there are only a few things that it could possibly be. So create a pop-up box that lists those things. If it's below/above the staff it gets trickier. But not in the staff.
> 
> Such a feature would probably double my note entry speed. As it is right now I don't even enter ledger lines - I usually write it out within the staff then drag the notes to the correct pitch.
> 
> rgames


Development has substantially ramped up since Staffpad ported over to the iPad OS this past February. I spoke with David about the app at length the other week (podcast out soon!) and he's very cognizant about what it does and what it should do and the direction it's heading in. Some very very cool stuff on the horizon. I won't spoil it for you all.


----------



## thevisi0nary

nilblo said:


> I actually like Notion a lot. Both in Windows 10 on big pen & touch screen and on an iPad Pro 2019 with Apple pen. Though I have Staffpad since the debut of the software, I like the ability to sometimes "noodle" on a Midi keyboard - which you can in Notion.



Thank you. Is there any preference you have for Staffpad on Windows vs iOS? Is there any performance or stability difference?


----------



## gfcgfc

dcoscina said:


> In one of his time lapse demos on YT, you can see in the Instrument selection window some of the upcoming libraries that will be available for Staffpad. Glory Days is one of them.


Do you have an idea what ”Spitfire Ethnic Winds” refer to ? 
I can’t find such a thing in Spitfire collections.


----------



## gfcgfc

gfcgfc said:


> Do you have an idea what ”Spitfire Ethnic Winds” refer to ?
> I can’t find such a thing in Spitfire collections.


Maybe this one:

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/andy-findon-kit-bag/


----------



## vash1122

gfcgfc said:


> Do you have an idea what ”Spitfire Ethnic Winds” refer to ?
> I can’t find such a thing in Spitfire collections.



It's probably the instruments from the Andy Finton Kit Bags:
https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/instruments/folk-world/andy-findon-kit-bag/https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/instruments/folk-world/andy-findon-kit-bag-2/
Also, a tweet from their official channel a while back said they'd love to have an Erhu available in the near future. I wonder if there will be Ethnic Strings and Percussion libraries as well. I don't know where they would come from though. Having all of those in one place, and at the quality of the existing libraries, would be awesome.


----------



## brandowalk

I’m hoping for Spitfire Solo Strings for StaffPad!


----------



## nilblo

thevisi0nary said:


> Thank you. Is there any preference you have for Staffpad on Windows vs iOS? Is there any performance or stability difference?


Sorry if I was unclear, I prefer Notion over Staffpad mainly because I can connect a midi keyboard to the computer and for me, Notion is recognizing my scribbles faster than Staffpad does. Notion iOS is faster than Notion in Windows 10 in that respect. In my opinion.


----------



## gfcgfc

brandowalk said:


> I’m hoping for Spitfire Solo Strings for StaffPad!


A while back I asked David about that and he told they’re coming


----------



## Michael Antrum

This Staffpad thing looks like its getting more expensive every week....


----------



## Mymind

gfcgfc said:


> A while back I asked David about that and he told they’re coming


Sounds interesting but hope there will be all of the articulations like flautando/con sordino and also a mic position would be perfect for this kind of library. If they deliver mic position and a mixer in their app, that would really be a game changer because you don’t even need to open your daw to have a custom sound.


----------



## dcoscina

Mymind said:


> Sounds interesting but hope there will be all of the articulations like flautando/con sordino and also a mic position would be perfect for this kind of library. If they deliver mic position and a mixer in their app, that would really be a game changer because you don’t even need to open your daw to have a custom sound.


Part of the reason why these larger libraries are so manageable inside the iPad OS is because they are single mic positions. I cannot speak for David (even though my name is David too, ) but i would think it would tax the memory buffer on the iPad OS unnecessarily with additional mic inputs.


----------



## prodigalson

Glory Days Big Band horns in this format (where staffpad deals with all the performance related issues) would be a game changer for me personally... ANOTHER game changer.

i can't wait.


----------



## Eric G

dcoscina said:


> Part of the reason why these larger libraries are so manageable inside the iPad OS is because they are single mic positions. I cannot speak for David (even though my name is David too, ) but i would think it would tax the memory buffer on the iPad OS unnecessarily with additional mic inputs.



To add further to this, can we be realistic?
Spitfire WW is 66GB on my SSD (i.e. all mic positions)

Spitfire WW StaffPad on my PC is 1.6GB and likely similar on IPAD (i.e. 1 mic position)

You can't expect to duplicate DAW/PC combo without sacrifice. And I doubt seriously that an IPad has enough processing power to do mixing and mastering today. And then you wouldn't have plugins etc... So are we just going to start asking StaffPad to re-create the exact DAW/PC world?


----------



## Mymind

Eric G said:


> To add further to this, can we be realistic?
> Spitfire WW is 66GB on my SSD (i.e. all mic positions)
> 
> Spitfire WW StaffPad on my PC is 1.6GB and likely similar on IPAD (i.e. 1 mic position)
> 
> You can't expect to duplicate DAW/PC combo without sacrifice. And I doubt seriously that an IPad has enough processing power to do mixing and mastering today. And then you wouldn't have plugins etc... So are we just going to start asking StaffPad to re-create the exact DAW/PC world?


I think it’s possible but for the ipad pro (the last 2 generations) which is a beast of machine and is not used yet for its capabilities. One librairie is approximately 3Gb. 10gb per library is doable. It’s not necessary to put all the library into the ipad version but the essential with notation program with 3 mic positions is possible IMHO. But i agree with you if we talk about ipad air or ipad. These versions could not handle this.


----------



## Gingerbread

I just bought Berlin Brass for StaffPad. It sounds great, of course.

Question for anyone who has it:

Is there any way to assign two instruments (Horn 1 and Horn 3, for example) to the same staff, so that two notes on that staff would be played respectively by each instrument? Much like it would be in a "real" orchestral score?

I have a feeling the answer is probably no, but thought I'd ask, just in case. It would be nice to handle the 4 horns on two staffs instead of four.


----------



## Eric G

Gingerbread said:


> I just bought Berlin Brass for StaffPad. It sounds great, of course.
> 
> Question for anyone who has it:
> 
> Is there any way to assign two instruments (Horn 1 and Horn 3, for example) to the same staff, so that two notes on that staff would be played respectively by each instrument? Much like it would be in a "real" orchestral score?
> 
> I have a feeling the answer is probably no, but thought I'd ask, just in case. It would be nice to handle the 4 horns on two staffs instead of four.



No. But that would be a dream come true wouldn't it?


----------



## Jakob Reinhardt

I haven't seen a demo of the CineStrings Solo library yet - so here's a composition I wrote with them (any Civ fans here?).

I think they sound solid in an orchestral context like this. But, as I have mentioned above they currently have too many glitches to work in a chamber setting. David said they're working on it. He has been quite helpful and I trust that the libraries will continue to improve. Just disappointed about the current state of this particular library. Can anyone speak to glitches in Berlin Solo? Is it glitch-free?


----------



## jonathanparham

Jakob Reinhardt said:


> I haven't seen a demo of the CineStrings Solo library yet - so here's a composition I wrote with them (any Civ fans here?).
> 
> I think they sound solid in an orchestral context like this. But, as I have mentioned above they currently have too many glitches to work in a chamber setting. David said they're working on it. He has been quite helpful and I trust that the libraries will continue to improve. Just disappointed about the current state of this particular library. Can anyone speak to glitches in Berlin Solo? Is it glitch-free?


Jakob,
very enjoyable. I love not only hearing your composition but also seeing how cleanly staffpad shows your gestures and techniques. Somehow it adds to the experience of the score.

Jonathan


----------



## Eric G

Jakob Reinhardt said:


> I haven't seen a demo of the CineStrings Solo library yet - so here's a composition I wrote with them (any Civ fans here?).
> 
> I think they sound solid in an orchestral context like this. But, as I have mentioned above they currently have too many glitches to work in a chamber setting. David said they're working on it. He has been quite helpful and I trust that the libraries will continue to improve. Just disappointed about the current state of this particular library. Can anyone speak to glitches in Berlin Solo? Is it glitch-free?



Unfortunately Berlin Solos has a similar experience from but updates are happening quickly.

I see you are using a lot of stock percussion. CinePERC may be the next best option for you. Its a great library and will take your comp to the next level.


----------



## Jakob Reinhardt

Eric G said:


> I see you are using a lot of stock percussion. CinePERC may be the next best option for you. Its a great library and will take your comp to the next level.


I'll look into it! I made an investment into Kontakt percussion libraries so I'm somewhat hesitant but I do love the idea of not having to export MIDI into a DAW...probably gonna pull the trigger on more libraries soon.
Speaking of DAW export: Does anyone happen to know if we have a date for stem exports?


----------



## dcoscina

Jakob Reinhardt said:


> I'll look into it! I made an investment into Kontakt percussion libraries so I'm somewhat hesitant but I do love the idea of not having to export MIDI into a DAW...probably gonna pull the trigger on more libraries soon.
> Speaking of DAW export: Does anyone happen to know if we have a date for stem exports?


Just a quick note on CinePerc. I was looking for the Log Drum sound but couldn't find it. David confirms it's missing (shows up on the list in the Staffpad store description for this add on). He says there will be an update for CinePerc that will include it. 

I love CinePerc. The sheer number of instruments you get dwarfs the other percussion library add-ons.


----------



## brandowalk

CinePerc has a ton of instruments to choose from! 

In the demos I heard I noticed quite a bit of “room” build up when multiple instruments playing. For anyone that has this library on StaffPad, has this been an issue?


----------



## jdrcomposer

Jakob Reinhardt said:


> I haven't seen a demo of the CineStrings Solo library yet - so here's a composition I wrote with them (any Civ fans here?).
> 
> I think they sound solid in an orchestral context like this. But, as I have mentioned above they currently have too many glitches to work in a chamber setting. David said they're working on it. He has been quite helpful and I trust that the libraries will continue to improve. Just disappointed about the current state of this particular library. Can anyone speak to glitches in Berlin Solo? Is it glitch-free?




I adore the tone of the Berlin Solos. Here's a section of an orchestral suite I'm finishing up that uses them (completely unmixed until we get STEM export). Melody is adapted from the hymn Blessed Be The Ties That Bind.


----------



## Eric G

Jakob Reinhardt said:


> I'll look into it! I made an investment into Kontakt percussion libraries so I'm somewhat hesitant but I do love the idea of not having to export MIDI into a DAW...probably gonna pull the trigger on more libraries soon.
> Speaking of DAW export: Does anyone happen to know if we have a date for stem exports?



I was told this week. Fingers crossed.


----------



## -Alejandro-

Hi everyone,

I just registered since I saw this post and found it very intersting.

I downloaded it with hight expectations and, if you do so, be ready to be little bit disappointed.

Good:
-Layout is great.
-Pretty great playback with exemptions ( I got, Berliner: strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion)

Not that great:

-Entry and recognition of notes are limited.
suggestion: another menu which you can move (like the app, concepts) and attach anywhere you feel comfortable. Gives you more freedom when rearranging.

-I payed for the Berliner sound pack. In some parts there are weird Ecos of a man voice.. really? I was really impressed by that one.I attach an exemple.
-if you delete a note, dynamic in the bar, gets deleted as well. Ok, I could move it to the second beat, but nonetheless, you won’t be able to move to other measure just by sliding it. This applies to almost everything besides text.
-difficult to insert double dotted notes.
-if you write a quarter note and want to change it for a half note. You have to erase the note and write again. Seams a silly point but, you will see.( with a sub menu, that would be just easy)
-extremely difficult and very frustrating when trying to pair groups of notes: eight note plus triplet (sixteenths).
-imposible to import from Sibelius or Finale.
-percussion - shakers, when doing playback does the accents where he likes.
-when doing playback, seams like the tempo line goes before than the sound. Just for a little bit.
-Not posible to select individual lines for playback.....
-Palm rejection is not that awesome..
-undo button requires to much of an effort. You have to switch the main menu and there it is. You find yourself switching menus all the time. Overall, waste of time.
-no midi support.

Among other things.

I have hope.. perhaps they will address things in the future, but. 100e for the app plus sounds, you can spend over 540e easily.

I was using flat and it was less frustrating. Great app. The downside was the subscription.

All the best,
Alejandro
View attachment weird sound man’s voice.mp4


----------



## foxby

-Alejandro- said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just registered since I saw this post and found it very intersting.
> 
> I downloaded it with hight expectations and, if you do so, be ready to be little bit disappointed.
> 
> Good:
> -Layout is great.
> -Pretty great playback with exemptions ( I got, Berliner: strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion)
> 
> Not that great:
> 
> -Entry and recognition of notes are limited.
> suggestion: another menu which you can move (like the app, concepts) and attach anywhere you feel comfortable. Gives you more freedom when rearranging.
> 
> -I payed for the Berliner sound pack. In some parts there are weird Ecos of a man voice.. really? I was really impressed by that one.I attach an exemple.
> -if you delete a note, dynamic in the bar, gets deleted as well. Ok, I could move it to the second beat, but nonetheless, you won’t be able to move to other measure just by sliding it. This applies to almost everything besides text.
> -difficult to insert double dotted notes.
> -if you write a quarter note and want to change it for a half note. You have to erase the note and write again. Seams a silly point but, you will see.( with a sub menu, that would be just easy)
> -extremely difficult and very frustrating when trying to pair groups of notes: eight note plus triplet (sixteenths).
> -imposible to import from Sibelius or Finale.
> -percussion - shakers, when doing playback does the accents where he likes.
> -when doing playback, seams like the tempo line goes before than the sound. Just for a little bit.
> -Not posible to select individual lines for playback.....
> -Palm rejection is not that awesome..
> -undo button requires to much of an effort. You have to switch the main menu and there it is. You find yourself switching menus all the time. Overall, waste of time.
> -no midi support.
> 
> Among other things.
> 
> I have hope.. perhaps they will address things in the future, but. 100e for the app plus sounds, you can spend over 540e easily.
> 
> I was using flat and it was less frustrating. Great app. The downside was the subscription.
> 
> All the best,
> Alejandro
> View attachment weird sound man’s voice.mp4

















Well , at least he has a sense of rhythm !! 
Sorry, I know it is painful, but it sounded funny !


----------



## -Alejandro-

foxby said:


> Well , at least he has a sense of rhythm !!
> Sorry, I know it is painful, but it sounded funny !


Yeah.. I also was surprised in that one jaja..


----------



## skt

I rearranged it this time. OST of the movie Titanic

How's the sound?


----------



## Michael Antrum

@skt - I am still constantly surprised by the rendering of this app, and how musical it sounds and feels. Can you tell me which libraries you used ?

Did you have to do a lot of fiddling after you got the notation in ?

I haven't bought any libraries as yet and I think I need to but I've just sprung for a new 12.9 iPad Pro. I'm still trying to decide whether to go Berlin or Spitfire on the strings....

Edit - My compliments on the transcription - a lot of work has gone into this I'm sure. Only ting was that some of the instruments were a bit two dimensional..... 


(That's a joke BTW....)


----------



## Sean J

Overall, most things about the performance are solid and typical of StaffPad's integration. Great job! The sound really is great, with two exceptions for me:

The swell at 1:45 doesn't have the horns in the lead. Should it have? Not sure. It's not a problem spot exactly. It works. I just wondered if it could have been improved. I'm not sure really.

At 2:53, the mix goes a little off track into muffled territory. Low volume on forte trumpets is one part of why, but it's not just the trumpets. There's definitely less clarity overall. That's the only issue IMHO.

The finale is very exceptional!


----------



## wcreed51

Finally made the purchase, and am in the first trows of trying to input music (like getting an 8th rest). Which add-on library would be best suited for chamber ensembles?


----------



## Sean J

wcreed51 said:


> Finally made the purchase, and am in the first trows of trying to input music (like getting an 8th rest). Which add-on library would be best suited for chamber ensembles?



I'm sorry I'm repeating stuff here. But on the point of chamber writing specifically, I'd choose:
Berlin Strings
Berlin Brass
Spitfire Woodwinds
Spitfire Percussion

Chamber music can sound very rich and alive in a beautiful room. Spitfire's Chamber strings have a sweet tone. So I switch from Berlin and Spitfire a lot. I just lean on Berlin more for busy performances as it's more versatile at performing and still sounds brilliant most of the time. Spitfire has features Berlin doesn't, like con sord. Spitfire also gets some staccato performances better for me. Depends. But Berlin is generally better.

It's hard to beat Spitfire's percussion. Big/Loud/Low instruments (even white played quietly if low) excite halls more. Teldex (Berlin) doesn't even begin to add what Lyndhurst (Spitfire) does to the sound. Cineperc has a massive instrument list and was done in a studio (smaller room), but the sound isn't as vibrant for it either. I use Cineperc and like it for film use, but for chamber and general use I'd use Spitfire any day.

Berlin Woodwinds sound fake to me and I'm a better woodwind than brass player. I guess everyone likes their own libraries. But Spitfire's woodwinds are another homerun for me... from Williams to Zimmer, anything can be done. The bass clarinet (in the hall, wow), flutes, the clarinet legato alone, geez... amazing.

Berlin Brass is great. Spitfire's is great. Neither by itself can do everything I write. I'd never use Berlin's Tuba (except JXL brass, not available for StaffPad). Spitfire's tuba is awesome. Berlin's trombones make me a happier human being. So I'd say both are very tied. For me they are. But Berlin has more chamber-friendly sizes with more solo instruments. But that Tuba. Couldn't give it up. I just couldn't.

Ultimately I'd say trust your ears. But hopefully there's some extra bits of useful info here.


----------



## wcreed51

Thanks!


----------



## Leandro Gardini

Have someone been successful trying to make StaffPad recognize double flats?


----------



## stevebarden

leogardini said:


> Have someone been successful trying to make StaffPad recognize double flats?


No. It seems impossible. I've asked them about it and haven't gotten a response.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

leogardini said:


> Have someone been successful trying to make StaffPad recognize double flats?


Now that you mention it, no. I even tried left handed, but no joy. Anyone?


----------



## rgames

PaulBrimstone said:


> Now that you mention it, no. I even tried left handed, but no joy. Anyone?


No luck here. Even single flats are only about 50% successful for me.

But sharps are about 90% so I can always write some enharmonic equivalent that at least *sounds* correct. Though it may look weird.

rgames


----------



## Sean J

rgames said:


> Even single flats are only about 50% successful for me.



Adding a serif at the foot of your "b" will help a lot with this.

I treat it like the letter more than a flat. Sometimes StaffPad seems (a guess on my part) to look for obvious clues it's a "b" and not a similar shape. It's helped me go from 30% to 85%. Flats and dynamics definitely need work.

The only thing I haven't figured out is how to write a tuplet with a rest in 12/8 time. You can force custom tuplets on notes by press-holding the stem, but that doesn't help here.

Anyone know if it's possible?


----------



## Leandro Gardini

scoredfilms said:


> Adding a serif at the foot of your "b" will help a lot with this.
> 
> I treat it like the letter more than a flat. Sometimes StaffPad seems (a guess on my part) to look for obvious clues it's a "b" and not a similar shape. It's helped me go from 30% to 85%. Flats and dynamics definitely need work.
> 
> The only thing I haven't figured out is how to write a tuplet with a rest in 12/8 time. You can force custom tuplets on notes by press-holding the stem, but that doesn't help here.
> 
> Anyone know if it's possible?


It helps a lot to first write all the notes and rests that you want without the tuplet. Once they are recognized write underneath (or above) any number that SP easily recognizes. 3 always works with me. Then stretch the "tuplet 3" to the notes you want. SP will adjust the number automatically.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Ah member of Staffpad Facbook user forum, shared a file with the intro to Beethovens Adagio movement from his 5th piano concerto. Here is my “2 cents” with Berlin strings and woodwinds.


----------



## MisteR

OleJoergensen said:


> Ah member of Staffpad Facbook user forum, shared a file with the intro to Beethovens Adagio movement from his 5th piano concerto. Here is my “2 cents” with Berlin strings and woodwinds.



Thanks for sharing. Why are the 1st violins playing so many grace notes? Is that baked in or did you program that somehow?


----------



## OleJoergensen

MisteR said:


> Thanks for sharing. Why are the 1st violins playing so many grace notes? Is that baked in or did you program that somehow?


Grace notes? There are non.
I think it is because the pizz samples sounds a little before the sustain- the sustain are a bit late.


----------



## MisteR

OleJoergensen said:


> Grace notes? There are non.
> I think it is because the pizz samples sounds a little before the sustain- the sustain are a bit late.



No that's not the pizz. Them's extra notes from the 1st violins.


----------



## MisteR

Love this, by the way:


----------



## gussunkri

MisteR said:


> Thanks for sharing. Why are the 1st violins playing so many grace notes? Is that baked in or did you program that somehow?


Pure speculation on my part, but could it be that that is the sound of the legato-transitions and that they are not scaled by the dynamics so they are played at mf or f, while the notes before and after are played at p?


----------



## MisteR

It’s a very good theory. Definitely a repeating of the previous note just before the transition that’s causing it.


----------



## OleJoergensen

MisteR said:


> Love this, by the way:



Thank you


----------



## OleJoergensen

MisteR said:


> It’s a very good theory. Definitely a repeating of the previous note just before the transition that’s causing it.


I soloed the 1. Violin track and made some test. I do hear it now but Im not sure what causes it. If it is a legato transition or if it is caused by reverb or panning.
If you have time to listen to these 4 short examples.......
I will send a report to Staffpad.

Update: I mailed Staffpad about the grace note sound in 1st violin Berlin strings at slow tempo.
So I deleted the short youtube examples. I will update here, when I recieve a reply from Staffpad.

Ole.


----------



## micrologus

I wrote just the first two measures, but it sounds correctly. Did you import the score or did you write it directly in StaffPad?


----------



## OleJoergensen

micrologus said:


> I wrote just the first two measures, but it sounds correctly. Did you import the score or did you write it directly in StaffPad?



Thank you.
It was a Staffpad file exported from an other member I used....
I will try rewriting 1. Violin on a new stave....


----------



## -Alejandro-

[


OleJoergensen said:


> Thank you.
> It was a Staffpad file exported from an other member I used....
> I will try rewriting 1. Violin on a new stave....



if you write it with slower tempo, it happens a the same.
View attachment RPReplay_Final1587289603.MP4


----------



## OleJoergensen

Thank you for your help .

last test: I speed the music up with 10 beats. It is les noticeable but still there. Now I hear it al the time :-(. Do you think it is some kind a bug? Should I notify 

Update: I mailed Staffpad about the grace note sound in 1st violin Berlin strings at slow tempo.
So I deleted the short youtube examples. I will update here, when I recieve a reply from Staffpad.

Ole.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

If anyone is interested in how Spitfire Chamber Strings sound with this piece, here is a quick version using SCS and StaffPad stock woodwinds. I first tried con sordino, as per the original score, but they sounded much too scratchy to my ears. Unfortunately, the straight strings are too lush, I fear. I've done next to nothing with automation yet, but will give it a try today. I did notice the Spitfire contrabass was almost impossible to level anywhere between ppp and f, but I'll give it more work. Basically all I did was add some cres/decres here and there and amend the original ties, which were causing odd rebowing effects.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

OleJoergensen said:


> Thank you for your help .
> 
> last test: I speed the music up with 10 beats. It is les noticeable but still there. Now I hear it al the time :-(. Do you think it is some kind a bug? Should I notify Staffpad?



Much better! I need to work on the automation and tempo like you did.


----------



## MisteR

OleJoergensen said:


> Thank you for your help .
> 
> last test: I speed the music up with 10 beats. It is les noticeable but still there. Now I hear it al the time :-(. Do you think it is some kind a bug? Should I notify Staffpad?



Yes, if you have the time, it’s worth letting them know. Seems from paulbrimstone’s example that it may be just a Berlin issue? Have you tried the stock library?


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

PaulBrimstone said:


> If anyone is interested in how Spitfire Chamber Strings sound with this piece, here is a quick version using SCS and StaffPad stock woodwinds. I first tried con sordino, as per the original score, but they sounded much too scratchy to my ears. Unfortunately, the straight strings are too lush, I fear. I've done next to nothing with automation yet, but will give it a try today. I did notice the Spitfire contrabass was almost impossible to level anywhere between ppp and f, but I'll give it more work. Basically all I did was add some cres/decres here and there and amend the original ties, which were causing odd rebowing effects.



I'd drop the basses pizz altogether and stay arco throughout...


----------



## OleJoergensen

MisteR said:


> Yes, if you have the time, it’s worth letting them know. Seems from paulbrimstone’s example that it may be just a Berlin issue? Have you tried the stock library?


Ive not used the stock library since I bought Berlin Strings .


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Patrick de Caumette said:


> I'd drop the basses pizz altogether and stay arco throughout...


@Patrick de Caumette Well, I'll have to refer you to Herr Beethoven for discussion. Original score calls for pizz.


----------



## Eric G

Good to see they are putting StaffPad through works like this.

"David William Hearn's homage to Max Steiner's score to "Gone With The Wind". This large orchestral score is being played back in realtime directly from StaffPad, via it's powerful score playback engine, and uses the StaffPad Editions of Berlin Strings; Berlin Woodwinds; Berlin Brass; Berlin Harps; and Berlin Percussion by Orchestral Tools. "


----------



## OleJoergensen

OleJoergensen said:


> Thank you for your help .
> 
> last test: I speed the music up with 10 beats. It is les noticeable but still there. Now I hear it al the time :-(. Do you think it is some kind a bug? Should I notify
> 
> Update: I mailed Staffpad about the grace note sound in 1st violin Berlin strings at slow tempo.
> So I deleted the short youtube examples. I will update here, when I recieve a reply from Staffpad.
> 
> Ole.


Here is an answer from Staffpad:
Hey Ole,

Ah I see -- yes, I think due to the slow tempo, and quiet dynamic marking, yet demisemiquavers (heh), it's managing to trigger the "slow attack" sustain samples, but there isn't quite enough time to let them fully bloom -- so the release samples kick in before the note has "grown" to its full volume, which can sound a bit like a ghost note. It would also explain why the legato is a little more bumpy -- it sort of falls between two posts...

I wonder, if this were double the tempo, yet written with minims vs crotchets, if it would sound smoother... I might test this one out... 

Best
D


----------



## Tomandersson

OleJoergensen said:


> Here is an answer from Staffpad:
> Hey Ole,
> 
> Ah I see -- yes, I think due to the slow tempo, and quiet dynamic marking, yet demisemiquavers (heh), it's managing to trigger the "slow attack" sustain samples, but there isn't quite enough time to let them fully bloom -- so the release samples kick in before the note has "grown" to its full volume, which can sound a bit like a ghost note. It would also explain why the legato is a little more bumpy -- it sort of falls between two posts...
> 
> I wonder, if this were double the tempo, yet written with minims vs crotchets, if it would sound smoother... I might test this one out...
> 
> Best
> D





OleJoergensen said:


> Here is an answer from Staffpad:
> Hey Ole,
> 
> Ah I see -- yes, I think due to the slow tempo, and quiet dynamic marking, yet demisemiquavers (heh), it's managing to trigger the "slow attack" sustain samples, but there isn't quite enough time to let them fully bloom -- so the release samples kick in before the note has "grown" to its full volume, which can sound a bit like a ghost note. It would also explain why the legato is a little more bumpy -- it sort of falls between two posts...
> 
> I wonder, if this were double the tempo, yet written with minims vs crotchets, if it would sound smoother... I might test this one out...
> 
> Best
> D


I think there’s a solution to this. In a 4/4 bar, start with a half note, tie it with a quarter note, then a eight, 16, and the last: a rest with a 32 or 64th.
I tried it, and it works. There will be a little gap at the end of the tied notes, but you won’t be able to hear it. You can then have two different scores, one for notation, and one for the playback. 
Best T-A A


----------



## Mymind

Hi guys
I manage to install all of the updates on ipad pro (last generation) except from the Berlin Strings which stay at 0% when downloading. The button is not called « update » anymore but « download ». The instrument list does not contain BS anymore too. When I click on the download button, It asks me if I want to repurchase, I click ok and its says like the other libraries that I had already purchased it etc. So I continue but it gets stuck at 0%. Do you have an idea?


----------



## giwro

Mymind said:


> Hi guys
> I manage to install all of the updates on ipad pro (last generation) except from the Berlin Strings which stay at 0% when downloading. The button is not called « update » anymore but « download ». The instrument list does not contain BS anymore too. When I click on the download button, It asks me if I want to repurchase, I click ok and its says like the other libraries that I had already purchased it etc. So I continue but it gets stuck at 0%. Do you have an idea?



If you haven’t already, make sure you are out of all apps. Completely shut the iPad down (power off) and re-start. Once you’re re-booted, open ONLY StaffPad, and try the download again. Sometimes/usually this clears the download cache (which doesn’t always empty correctly), and you may have better luck.


----------



## Mymind

giwro said:


> If you haven’t already, make sure you are out of all apps. Completely shut the iPad down (power off) and re-start. Once you’re re-booted, open ONLY StaffPad, and try the download again. Sometimes/usually this clears the download cache (which doesn’t always empty correctly), and you may have better luck.


Thanks but already done that. May be there is a way to clear the cache manually? I am really afraid I have to deinstall staffpad.


----------



## Jett Hitt

After listening to many examples and reading through this entire thread, I have finally decided to bite the bullet and get it. Since this means buying an iPad Pro 12.9 256 GB, I am having to bite down pretty hard. I figure this is $2k by the time I am done. From what I gather, the libraries are about 2 GB, so it seems like 256 should be plenty of space, or? I have waited for something like this for 30 years. I loathe tinkering with MIDI, and maybe, just maybe, I can finally be done with that. The one thing that remains puzzling to me is that I cannot find any information about the libraries and their articulations anywhere on the web. No one, including Staffpad, seems bothered to advertise exactly which options are available. Is this posted somewhere that I am missing? I have been able to gather piecemeal information through this thread, but nothing conclusive. As best I can tell, most seem to prefer Cineperc, Berlin Brass, Berlin Piano, and, well, then it gets more complicated. I can't decide which string library is best. Berlin seems strong, but SSS and SCS have more articulations (I think). Woodwinds also seem to be a toss-up between Berlin and Spitfire. I understand that I may eventually add duplicate sections, but in the beginning, what would be the best full orchestral setup to start? Opinions?


----------



## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> After listening to many examples and reading through this entire thread, I have finally decided to bite the bullet and get it. Since this means buying an iPad Pro 12.9 256 GB, I am having to bite down pretty hard. I figure this is $2k by the time I am done. From what I gather, the libraries are about 2 GB, so it seems like 256 should be plenty of space, or? I have waited for something like this for 30 years. I loathe tinkering with MIDI, and maybe, just maybe, I can finally be done with that. The one thing that remains puzzling to me is that I cannot find any information about the libraries and their articulations anywhere on the web. No one, including Staffpad, seems bothered to advertise exactly which options are available. Is this posted somewhere that I am missing? I have been able to gather piecemeal information through this thread, but nothing conclusive. As best I can tell, most seem to prefer Cineperc, Berlin Brass, Berlin Piano, and, well, then it gets more complicated. I can't decide which string library is best. Berlin seems strong, but SSS and SCS have more articulations (I think). Woodwinds also seem to be a toss-up between Berlin and Spitfire. I understand that I may eventually add duplicate sections, but in the beginning, what would be the best full orchestral setup to start? Opinions?


There is a list of instruments and articulations inside the Staffpad store which will give you a good idea of size of the group, type of instruments, and articulations available.


----------



## Jett Hitt

dcoscina said:


> There is a list of instruments and articulations inside the Staffpad store which will give you a good idea of size of the group, type of instruments, and articulations available.


Store? I don’t see a store on their website. Are you referring to something within the app? (I don’t have it yet.)


----------



## giwro

Jett Hitt said:


> Store? I don’t see a store on their website. Are you referring to something within the app? (I don’t have it yet.)


Within the app


----------



## Jon W

Mymind said:


> Thanks but already done that. May be there is a way to clear the cache manually? I am really afraid I have to deinstall staffpad.


I don't know if this will help you, but there is a difference between powering off and on, and a hard reset, also called a forced restart. Depending on the version of iPad there are different methods of hard resetting. But all do essentially the same thing - the screen goes black, and you continue to hold buttons until the white Apple appears. With an iPad Pro without a home button, hit volume up, then volume down, then press and hold the power button. Continue holding the power button until the white Apple appears.


----------



## Mymind

Jon W said:


> I don't know if this will help you, but there is a difference between powering off and on, and a hard reset, also called a forced restart. Depending on the version of iPad there are different methods of hard resetting. But all do essentially the same thing - the screen goes black, and you continue to hold buttons until the white Apple appears. With an iPad Pro without a home button, hit volume up, then volume down, then press and hold the power button. Continue holding the power button until the white Apple appears.


Thanks for the tip but it doesn’t work neither. I’ll wait for the app update which should arrive soon.


----------



## toomanynotes

If it was £100 for software n instruments I could be persuaded to try it out.


----------



## Eric G

An Evening with Staffpad


----------



## Mymind

Eric G said:


> An Evening with Staffpad



Awesome!
I will not sleep tonight but watching this! 😄


----------



## Mymind

New version on windows. 

What's new in this version
## New Features - Stem Export. You can now choose to export every staff in your score as its own audio file - Copy and paste between score files - Surface Dial support; custom "Compose Mode" with off-screen and on-screen interactions ## Recognition - Various recognition enhancements - Double flats re-added to the recognition engine ## Playback - Metronome now correctly detects a pick up bar when combined with a repeat barline - Audio export is more reliable and less sensitive to digital clipping - Fixed issues with playback affecting legato and tenuto markings - Improved RAM usage during playback and export ## Lyrics - Lyrics are now spaced correctly when larger sizes are chosen, and the spacing algorithm has been refined in general - Entering lyrics is more reliable when reaching the end of an incomplete bar ## General - Various copy/paste fixes - General performance improvements, particularly with large scores - Added toggle in settings menu for older pens - Additional protections when saving files - Assorted bugfixes and various keyboard shortcuts have been added. ## Export - MIDI export now contains tempo, key and sustain pedal information. - Various MusicXML import and export fixes ## Sound Libraries - "Cinesamples Artist Series: Tina Guo Cello StaffPad Edition" - "Cinesamples Artist Series: Taylor Davis Violin StaffPad Edition" - "Spitfire Audio Originals: Felt Piano StaffPad Edition" - "Ambience One" - evocative, haunting sounds


----------



## wbacer

Eric G said:


> An Evening with Staffpad



In the video, David talks about the new Ambience One pack but I don't see it offered in the iPad StaffPad store. Is this available for iPad?


----------



## Tilt & Flow

wbacer said:


> In the video, David talks about the new Ambience One pack but I don't see it offered in the iPad StaffPad store. Is this available for iPad?


The iPad update isn’t available yet. I think the new libraries will be available once the update is released.
[out now on app store]


----------



## emasters

Tilt & Flow said:


> The iPad update isn’t available yet. I think the new libraries will be available once the update is released.



The iPad update became available this afternoon here. No new sound libraries in the store, yet....


----------



## MisteR

Felt Piano is there...


----------



## jonathanparham

Mymind said:


> New version on windows.
> "Cinesamples Artist Series: Taylor Davis Violin StaffPad Edition" - "Spitfire Audio Originals: Felt Piano StaffPad Edition" - "Ambience One" - evocative, haunting sounds


I see the felt piano. What is Ambience One? it's not Albion One or Ambient Guitars?


----------



## Mymind

Ipad update available in France! I can write dynamics! I am very happy with that as I get 90% of dynamics recognized.


----------



## Mymind

jonathanparham said:


> I see the felt piano. What is Ambience One? it's not Albion One or Ambient Guitars?


Sorry I don’t know. They are not available on ipad even after I install the update.


----------



## jonathanparham

Yeah I'm on Windows and there was an update.


----------



## Eric G

wbacer said:


> In the video, David talks about the new Ambience One pack but I don't see it offered in the iPad StaffPad store. Is this available for iPad?


No I don't see it yet. I only see the Felt Piano in the store. I am sure it will update soon.

"Cinesamples Artist Series: Tina Guo Cello StaffPad Edition"
"Cinesamples Artist Series: Taylor Davis Violin StaffPad Edition" 
"Spitfire Audio Originals: Felt Piano StaffPad Edition" 
"Ambience One" - evocative, haunting sounds


----------



## Eric G

Mymind said:


> New version on windows.
> 
> What's new in this version
> ## New Features - Stem Export. You can now choose to export every staff in your score as its own audio file - Copy and paste between score files - Surface Dial support; custom "Compose Mode" with off-screen and on-screen interactions ## Recognition - Various recognition enhancements - Double flats re-added to the recognition engine ## Playback - Metronome now correctly detects a pick up bar when combined with a repeat barline - Audio export is more reliable and less sensitive to digital clipping - Fixed issues with playback affecting legato and tenuto markings - Improved RAM usage during playback and export ## Lyrics - Lyrics are now spaced correctly when larger sizes are chosen, and the spacing algorithm has been refined in general - Entering lyrics is more reliable when reaching the end of an incomplete bar ## General - Various copy/paste fixes - General performance improvements, particularly with large scores - Added toggle in settings menu for older pens - Additional protections when saving files - Assorted bugfixes and various keyboard shortcuts have been added. ## Export - MIDI export now contains tempo, key and sustain pedal information. - Various MusicXML import and export fixes ## Sound Libraries - "Cinesamples Artist Series: Tina Guo Cello StaffPad Edition" - "Cinesamples Artist Series: Taylor Davis Violin StaffPad Edition" - "Spitfire Audio Originals: Felt Piano StaffPad Edition" - "Ambience One" - evocative, haunting sounds


STEM Export is the game changer for me. Pro-Tools Mixing/Mastering here I come.


----------



## yiph2

Interesting...


----------



## ProfoundSilence

so I'm going to try staff pad on a yoga c940 whenever it gets here.


----------



## Michael Antrum

That sounds like it could be very promising......I don't have BBSO, but lots of people are big fans of the sound.

The interesting thing about this will be the cost, which if it is the same price ratio as Kontakt Library to Staffpad Library, would make it much less expensive than building an orchestra of the other sample libraries.

My new iPad Pro 12.9" is arriving today, and the update has just been pushed out on the Apple store. ( I was going to cap the day by buying my first third party library ( I was wavering between Spitfire & Berlin Strings). However, now.....

By the way, someone needs to tell @paulthomson that Spitfire need to get some information up on their site about the articulations available and details of how to trigger them from the notation. They are normally terrific at putting up walkthroughs and support videos of their products, and I know they won't be making a ton of money out of these (though I'm sure that's not why they haven't done some), but the lack of info on say, Chamber Strings for Staffpad, compared to the info available form Berlin Strings... well its not great.

The demo of Elgar's Nimrod on Spitfire Symphonic Strings though... wow. If the Staffpad file for that were available so I could look at the expression curves I'd buy it in a heart beat.

Now where is that flipping courier....


----------



## Mymind

yiph2 said:


> Interesting...


Please where did you find this discussion? Twitter?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Mymind said:


> Please where did you find this discussion? Twitter?




If @yiph2 is making this up, I am going to hurt him.....


----------



## yiph2

Mymind said:


> Please where did you find this discussion? Twitter?


On Paul's latest YouTube video



Michael Antrum said:


> If @yiph2 is making this up, I am going to hurt him.....


----------



## Mymind

yiph2 said:


> On Paul's latest YouTube video


Thanks. 
I am not a big fan if BBCSO. The brass and string sounding are not as good as the other libraries IMO. But this could be an interesting and alternative package if they make fair price for it.


----------



## Tomandersson

With the new update, something is wrong with audio Export. Both single and stems . The brass and woodwind, just plays endless notes. I have the Berlin series. The violins seems ok.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Well my new 12.9 iPad Pro just arrived, and I've just noticed that the new update seems to have broken all the video demos of the sample libraries....

Bit of a bummer as I was just about to sit down and go trough them all again to pick my first string library.....


----------



## jonathanparham

yiph2 said:


> Interesting...


Yeah this is what I posted on YOUTUBE. Paul was talking about a project he did with Jake Johnson and he pulls out staffpad. You cannot see my replies but I suggested BBCSO say $500-$600. I dunno, Spitfire Symphonic strings is off sale $799 and the Staffpad version is $99. Not sure what to charge for BBCSO. Occasionally I would pull out Staffpad for short pieces for live players so I'm pretty excited about what's on Staffpad now. Having BBCSO and LA Modern percussion; IMO you could do Epic Hybrid stuff right on your tablet.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Michael Antrum said:


> That sounds like it could be very promising......I don't have BBSO, but lots of people are big fans of the sound.
> 
> The interesting thing about this will be the cost, which if it is the same price ratio as Kontakt Library to Staffpad Library, would make it much less expensive than building an orchestra of the other sample libraries.
> 
> My new iPad Pro 12.9" is arriving today, and the update has just been pushed out on the Apple store. ( I was going to cap the day by buying my first third party library ( I was wavering between Spitfire & Berlin Strings). However, now.....
> 
> By the way, someone needs to tell @paulthomson that Spitfire need to get some information up on their site about the articulations available and details of how to trigger them from the notation. They are normally terrific at putting up walkthroughs and support videos of their products, and I know they won't be making a ton of money out of these (though I'm sure that's not why they haven't done some), but the lack of info on say, Chamber Strings for Staffpad, compared to the info available form Berlin Strings... well its not great.
> 
> The demo of Elgar's Nimrod on Spitfire Symphonic Strings though... wow. If the Staffpad file for that were available so I could look at the expression curves I'd buy it in a heart beat.
> 
> Now where is that flipping courier....



I am a huge fan of the BBCSO--except that damned solo horn--but it seems unlikely to me that they would sell it as one package, as they have with the original. They would probably sell choirs to maximize profit, or it will be the most expensive library on Staffpad. (And that's ok. It is a great library.)

The Elgar and SSS, yes I agree, it's just amazing, but most seem to be going with Berlin Strings. Few seem willing to say, "I've tried both, and this one is best." Obviously different libraries are going to work better in different compositions, but you would think that there would be a consensus of the best all-around. I haven't heard many really touting SCS as they do on the DAW side of things, but the Temperance track is gorgeous. I think @Eric G said you're going to wind up owning all of these (paraphrasing).

It does indeed seem strange that there are no walkthroughs of these libraries and no websites detailing the articulations. The only way to see what is available is to buy an iPad (or something on the MS side), buy the app, and look in the store. Spitfire isn't even advertising their Staffpad libraries. Can you imagine Spitfire not advertising? If they sold coffee in their lobby, they'd have a video about it.

I can only surmise what is happening. If you make libraries or DAWs or plugins or notation programs, you're sitting there like a deer caught in the headlights, thinking "Holy crap, this changes everything." There will still be the mockup guys who work for days on three measures, but for those of us who work with real notes, the piano roll days are done. It seems to me that nothing will ever be the same after Staffpad. I have waited for this for 30 years. I say this prematurely because my iPad won't actually arrive until Thursday, but if I can be just half as proficient as David William Hearn at entering notes, I won't ever look back.


----------



## jonathanparham

I was working a little bit this morning since I installed the updates last night. I'm on MS Surface Pro 3. The note input is noticeably different. I honestly started writing thinking I was going to have to do a lot of clean up but my noteheads above the staff, slurs, and my half notes seem to be recognized more easily. Before the update, I would usually 'pinch/zoom' the staff to be more accurate but I just randomly started writing and boom recognized. I still have to practice but this is more accurate for my writing.


----------



## jonathanparham

ProfoundSilence said:


> so I'm going to try staff pad on a yoga c940 whenever it gets here.


cool. I'm curious how you like the stylus


----------



## Kanter

Jett Hitt said:


> Spitfire isn't even advertising their Staffpad libraries. Can you imagine Spitfire not advertising? If they sold coffee in their lobby, they'd have a video about it.


hilarious.

to the point, I remember having to un- and reinstall Staffpad back when the relaunch happened in February to get my update, the "roll-out" via automatic updates would have taken forever.
Same now, still showing 3.0.14 on all my machines.

So I am tempted to try the same stunt, but the prospect of reconfiguring the entire app and re-downloading all libraries is not attractive. I do not recall: would that be necessary anyway, with auto-update?


----------



## wcreed51

Have you tried to manually update though the MS Store?


----------



## Kanter

that's what I meant- last time I did, all had to be configured/reinstalled from scratch


----------



## wcreed51

I don't mean re-install, I mean check for updates


----------



## brandowalk

I've been using StaffPad on iPad for a few weeks now and having a blast with it! Here is my first output from it. Libraries used were Spitfire and Cinesamples. I used the new stem export feature (to Protools) to do some minor tweaking. Thanks to all of the contributors in this thread who have been helpful with their insight with StaffPad.

edit: piano and harp = Berlin series


----------



## Kanter

wcreed51 said:


> I don't mean re-install, I mean check for updates


that worked, thanks.
Surface dial support back, yess!


----------



## sundrowned

This app really is extraordinary. I've just written 30 bars so much quicker than it would take in a daw.

It's not the handwriting recognition that's the amazing thing. In fact I don't particularly like that aspect of it. I'd prefer to pre-select notes and place them. It's the integration with the libraries and the playback engine. 

I would like them to expand the team or even get together with a bigger developer to really expand the app. A desktop specific version would be good. I do already use it on desktop, but there are a few niggles that have to be worked around.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Somehow I either missed this or forgot about it, which I suppose is easy to do in large threads like this. There seems to be a clear winner in each of these categories to me. So here it is again for those who missed it earlier in the thread.

https://soundcloud.com/stukennedy


----------



## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> Somehow I either missed this or forgot about it, which I suppose is easy to do in large threads like this. There seems to be a clear winner in each of these categories to me. So here it is again for those who missed it earlier in the thread.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/stukennedy


I kinda dig the CineWinds to be honest. I have Berlin Winds and while I like them, the CineWinds are very clear and their legato seems very responsive. Damn, more money I need to spend. 

I'm happy with the Berlin Strings and Brass however. I have CinePerc which is great. Also tempted with CineBrass.... oyyy.


----------



## dcoscina

BTW- working in this app is so rewarding. Such a transparent way of writing music. And the playback is just crazy good. With little effort so most of the focus can be on the music itself. #dreamsdocometrue


----------



## Jett Hitt

dcoscina said:


> I kinda dig the CineWinds to be honest. I have Berlin Winds and while I like them, the CineWinds are very clear and their legato seems very responsive. Damn, more money I need to spend.
> 
> I'm happy with the Berlin Strings and Brass however. I have CinePerc which is great. Also tempted with CineBrass.... oyyy.



Thanks for sharing. I thought that the woodwinds were the least obvious. I think that I am going to start with Berlin, but none of them blew me away. At present, my choices upfront are going to be Berlin Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Piano, and Harp + Cineperc. I will add others if/as need be, but I was on the fence about the woodwinds. I also don’t have much info to go on regarding the piano and harp. I can also see SCS being really useful in some instances. In fact, in the Stu Kennedy examples above, I preferred SCS to SSS. In the end, I’ll probably wind up owning a lot of things I don’t use.


----------



## Kanter

there has been talk of new libraries to be released, none have showed up so far save the felt piano.. Some providers have started niche selling, 8dio is doing a la carte excerpts from their larger libraries.. I would not mind SP going down that road too


----------



## Jett Hitt

dcoscina said:


> BTW- working in this app is so rewarding. Such a transparent way of writing music. And the playback is just crazy good. With little effort so most of the focus can be on the music itself. #dreamsdocometrue


I was so excited about the concept 5 years ago that I ran out and bought a Surface Pro. Coming from a Mac environment was a leap of faith and probably an obstacle, but I was met with handwriting recognition problems and hardware failure. In the first 20 minutes, the pen broke. I finally got another in the mail ten days later, and it broke on the second day. I gave up and sold the Surface Pro. But I am determined this time. I so hate piano rolls. I usually go from paper to Finale to Logic. Now hopefully I’ll go straight to StaffPad. Fingers crossed.


----------



## dcoscina

Kanter said:


> there has been talk of new libraries to be released, none have showed up so far save the felt piano.. Some providers have started niche selling, 8dio is doing a la carte excerpts from their larger libraries.. I would not mind SP going down that road too


They have to walk before they can run. Remember this was rebuilt from the ground up for iOS and just debuted in February this year.


----------



## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> I was so excited about the concept 5 years ago that I ran out and bought a Surface Pro. Coming from a Mac environment was a leap of faith and probably an obstacle, but I was met with handwriting recognition problems and hardware failure. In the first 20 minutes, the pen broke. I finally got another in the mail ten days later, and it broke on the second day. I gave up and sold the Surface Pro. But I am determined this time. I so hate piano rolls. I usually go from paper to Finale to Logic. Now hopefully I’ll go straight to StaffPad. Fingers crossed.


Yeah I jumped onto it then but hated the Windows OS, and the build quality of the Surface just didn't do it for me so I returned it (still have the windows SP license tho) and was pleasantly surprised when it came out for iOS. when I interviewed David about how he was able to keep that under wraps so well, he said he doesn't have any friends. LOL.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Well I just bought Berlin Strings, and its a pretty big improvement over the stock sounds. String parts sound much more realistic with these. Which sadly means I'm going to be getting a few more of them.

Has anyone had any issues with mixing different manufacturer libraries, or do they just seem to gel ?

I must say, going to a 12.9" iPad from an older 9.7 has made an absolutely massive difference. I've ordered on for those matt screen protectors that feels and sound a bit like paper - It will interesting to see how that goes....


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Michael Antrum said:


> Well I just bought Berlin Strings, and its a pretty big improvement over the stock sounds. String parts sound much more realistic with these. Which sadly means I'm going to be getting a few more of them.
> 
> Has anyone had any issues with mixing different manufacturer libraries, or do they just seem to gel ?
> 
> I must say, going to a 12.9" iPad from an older 9.7 has made an absolutely massive difference. I've ordered on for those matt screen protectors that feels and sound a bit like paper - It will interesting to see how that goes....


@Michael Antrum Yeah I just asked for comments on the Paperlike protector over on the FB StaffPad users group. Looks like it could be helpful and I’ll be interested in your experience with it. Unfortunately where I live, with shipping, it will cost around $100, gah.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Crikey - Where do you live - Jupiter ?


----------



## Jett Hitt

Michael Antrum said:


> I must say, going to a 12.9" iPad from an older 9.7 has made an absolutely massive difference. I've ordered on for those matt screen protectors that feels and sound a bit like paper - It will interesting to see how that goes....


I, too, would be interested in any feedback about the Paperlike screen covers. Their website indicates that they aren’t shipping until early May. There are products with the same name on Amazon, but they seem to be knockoffs.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I bought one of those cheap knocks offs and it was impossible to fit properly (bubbles everywhere) and it ended up in the bin, but it was really nice to draw on, and the matt finish made a big difference when sitting in the garden (for glare).

Having stuffed it up, I might wait until Apple re-open their stores, as I hear they have a fitting service, also my local mac dealer KCRS also have a machine for this too...


----------



## dcoscina

Michael Antrum said:


> Well I just bought Berlin Strings, and its a pretty big improvement over the stock sounds. String parts sound much more realistic with these. Which sadly means I'm going to be getting a few more of them.
> 
> Has anyone had any issues with mixing different manufacturer libraries, or do they just seem to gel ?
> 
> I must say, going to a 12.9" iPad from an older 9.7 has made an absolutely massive difference. I've ordered on for those matt screen protectors that feels and sound a bit like paper - It will interesting to see how that goes....


I use CinePerc with Berlin Strings, Brass and Winds with no issues


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Michael Antrum said:


> Crikey - Where do you live - Jupiter ?


Lol, might as well be. Bermuda.


----------



## rgames

Has anyone found a way to reduce the pressure required to erase on iPad? I have to press much harder than I'd like on such an expensive piece of hardware. And it takes very little pressure to actually write effectively, so there's a lot of margin between writing and erasing.

I bet I could cut the required pressure in half and never get close to accidentally triggering the erase mode.


----------



## stevebarden

rgames said:


> Has anyone found a way to reduce the pressure required to erase on iPad? I have to press much harder than I'd like on such an expensive piece of hardware. And it takes very little pressure to actually write effectively, so there's a lot of margin between writing and erasing.
> 
> I bet I could cut the required pressure in half and never get close to accidentally triggering the erase mode.



When I first began using the app I felt like I needed to press really, really hard to engage the eraser. I thought the tip of the pencil would break. After a while I learned it really doesn't require that much pressure to turn it on. The trick is that you only need to apply the pressure to turn it on. Once it's on you can relax the pressure and move the pencil around with ease. Just make sure to not lift the pencil off the screen or the eraser mode will terminate.


----------



## dcoscina

rgames said:


> Has anyone found a way to reduce the pressure required to erase on iPad? I have to press much harder than I'd like on such an expensive piece of hardware. And it takes very little pressure to actually write effectively, so there's a lot of margin between writing and erasing.
> 
> I bet I could cut the required pressure in half and never get close to accidentally triggering the erase mode.


I tend to use the erase feature personally because I too don’t like pressing hard on the surface/pencil.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Update for those of you seeking out the Paperlike screen protector. I ordered it from the website tonight. It ships from Europe, and due to Covid 19, shipping is indefinitely delayed to the US.


----------



## Michael Antrum

dcoscina said:


> I tend to use the erase feature personally because I too don’t like pressing hard on the surface/pencil.



Now I have the Apple Pencil Mk II, I just double tap on it to toggle the eraser on and off. Works great...


----------



## Michael Antrum

PaulBrimstone said:


> Lol, might as well be. Bermuda.



I can imagine it has its compensations.... 

Friend of mine, who sadly passed away a couple of years ago had a bit of a tiff with HMRC and moved out there for about 8 years. He loved the place. It all got sorted out and he moved back, wished he hadn’t and then got ill with cancer and couldn’t return.

As a matter of interest, is your internet shocking ?


----------



## brandowalk

rgames said:


> Has anyone found a way to reduce the pressure required to erase on iPad? I have to press much harder than I'd like on such an expensive piece of hardware. And it takes very little pressure to actually write effectively, so there's a lot of margin between writing and erasing.
> 
> I bet I could cut the required pressure in half and never get close to accidentally triggering the erase mode.


Might just be me, but I find the recent software update better in this regard for erasing and does not needing as much pressure. 

Recognition is better overall as well as noted in the update.

B


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Michael Antrum said:


> I can imagine it has its compensations....
> 
> Friend of mine, who sadly passed away a couple of years ago had a bit of a tiff with HMRC and moved out there for about 8 years. He loved the place. It all got sorted out and he moved back, wished he hadn’t and then got ill with cancer and couldn’t return.
> 
> As a matter of interest, is your internet shocking ?


@Michael Antrum Quite a few people and very large companies here have, ahem, a bit of a problem with HMRC. Their punishment is internet that is slightly faster than Turkmenistan, but reasonably workable


----------



## mkiz

stevebarden said:


> Anyone know how to achieve the Bartok pizz for Spitfire strings? That articulation is not listed in the symbols palette and drawing the standard notation for it (circle with vertical line at the top) is not recognized. The Bartok pizz is listed as an included articulation for Spitfire.


I am coming to this post late, but Since I couldn’t find an answer to your question in the forum I figured I would post my answer here. Bartok pizzicato can be triggered with ghost notes, or the notes indicated with an x-head instead of usual note head. These ghost notes are accessible through the articulation menu. I found that when using this method it is not necessary to enter the word “pizz” or “pizzicato” like you do for regular pizzicato.
Edit: oops. My answer is actually for the cinesamples solo strings, not the spitfire strings.


----------



## psmk31452

2 things

1) I too have trouble with the Apple Pencil 2 and the amount of pressure. I know, there is the, "Eraser" tool that I can open in the menu bar, but not crazy about going from staff to menu then back to staff and then back to negate the eraser in the menu bar. (God, I can'tbelieve that with such an incredible tool such as, "StaffPad" I'm whining about the eraser. We truly are an unhappy lot aren't we?)

2) I have purchased Berlin Strings and I'm in need of a piano for StaffPad. Just wondering if anyone has purchased either Cinepiano or the Orchestral Grands and has an opinion as to pro or cons regarding those two pianos. I'm not seeing any demos regarding the Orchestral Grands, so I feel as if I'm shopping with a credit card, but I'm deaf and unable to hear what either one will sound like. Opinions? Suggestions?

Paul


----------



## Michael Antrum

psmk31452 said:


> 1) I too have trouble with the Apple Pencil 2 and the amount of pressure. I know, there is the, "Eraser" tool that I can open in the menu bar, but not crazy about going from staff to menu then back to staff and then back to negate the eraser in the menu bar.



Double tapping the pencil with your finger toggles the eraser tool on and off...But this only works with Apple Pencil 2


----------



## Jett Hitt

psmk31452 said:


> 2) I have purchased Berlin Strings and I'm in need of a piano for StaffPad. Just wondering if anyone has purchased either Cinepiano or the Orchestral Grands and has an opinion as to pro or cons regarding those two pianos. I'm not seeing any demos regarding the Orchestral Grands, so I feel as if I'm shopping with a credit card, but I'm deaf and unable to hear what either one will sound like. Opinions? Suggestions?
> 
> Paul


Somewhere back in this thread, there were multiple examples of the Berlin piano. I have read in several places that the Berlin piano has problems with noise, but I don't know that first hand. I, too, am about to buy a piano, and I would be keen to hear a comparison of the options.

Edit: I finally found the examples of Berlin piano in a reply on page 22, but the examples have been deleted. So if anyone has the ability to produce some examples of any or all of the pianos, that'd be awesome.


----------



## rsg22

Is anyone successfully running Staffpad on an iPad (non-pro) 6th generation? Listed as compatible but I'm assuming it's near minimum spec. 

Been waiting for something like this for a long time, gave up around the holidays and picked up BBCSO. Upgrading to a new iPad is a bit of a stretch right now.


----------



## psmk31452

Thanks, Michael Antrum for the tip regarding double tapping the Apple Pencil 2.

I’m still in need of some more info regarding a choice of piano for StaffPad. Thanks Jett for responding, but as you said, the examples have been deleted, so there’s no way of determining the quality.

I don’t believe that it would be of any benefit to listen to the pianos on their respective sites. Not the same quantity of mics I believe and I’m not sure what else may have changed regarding the quality. I do realize that all of the instruments are much smaller in size.

Eventually, I’m sure I will end up with both, but I wanted my initial purchase to be based on something other than, “eenie, meanie, minie, moe, etc.”


----------



## Jett Hitt

psmk31452 said:


> Thanks, Michael Antrum for the tip regarding double tapping the Apple Pencil 2.
> 
> I’m still in need of some more info regarding a choice of piano for StaffPad. Thanks Jett for responding, but as you said, the examples have been deleted, so there’s no way of determining the quality.
> 
> I don’t believe that it would be of any benefit to listen to the pianos on their respective sites. Not the same quantity of mics I believe and I’m not sure what else may have changed regarding the quality. I do realize that all of the instruments are much smaller in size.
> 
> Eventually, I’m sure I will end up with both, but I wanted my initial purchase to be based on something other than, “eenie, meanie, minie, moe, etc.”


So there is a Staffpad User Group on Facebook. I spent the evening going through all of their posts back through March. You can hear a lot there, including pianos. I haven't found a side by side comparison, but at this point, my gut feeling is that the Berlin libraries seem to be the preference. You can certainly hear the Berlin piano in this group.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

anyone here experienced staffpad on a non-surface windows ink device?


----------



## brandowalk

psmk31452 said:


> Thanks, Michael Antrum for the tip regarding double tapping the Apple Pencil 2.
> 
> I’m still in need of some more info regarding a choice of piano for StaffPad. Thanks Jett for responding, but as you said, the examples have been deleted, so there’s no way of determining the quality.
> 
> I don’t believe that it would be of any benefit to listen to the pianos on their respective sites. Not the same quantity of mics I believe and I’m not sure what else may have changed regarding the quality. I do realize that all of the instruments are much smaller in size.
> 
> Eventually, I’m sure I will end up with both, but I wanted my initial purchase to be based on something other than, “eenie, meanie, minie, moe, etc.”



Go to the Store in the app and check out the walkthroughs or demos for each. Someone mentioned earlier that the links may have broken due to the update(?), but I see them now.

You will of course come to your own conclusion what is best for your needs. For me, I found the Berlin piano to be more suited as an orchestral piano (ie. on a concert stage) and thus is why I went that route. The Cinepiano I thought sounded like a slightly more closer mic'd recording, and actually more pleasant, ie. for solo piano work or towards more of a hollywood style orchestral sound. 

Berlin does offer a more intimate sounding piano preset. I haven't used yet but I got the feeling it would be better for soft playing only. I'll have to check it out.

Happy buying!


----------



## brandowalk

brandowalk said:


> Go to the Store in the app and check out the walkthroughs or demos for each. Someone mentioned earlier that the links may have broken due to the update(?), but I see them now.
> 
> You will of course come to your own conclusion what is best for your needs. For me, I found the Berlin piano to be more suited as an orchestral piano (ie. on a concert stage) and thus is why I went that route. The Cinepiano I thought sounded like a slightly more closer mic'd recording, and actually more pleasant, ie. for solo piano work or towards more of a hollywood style orchestral sound.
> 
> Berlin does offer a more intimate sounding piano preset. I haven't used yet but I got the feeling it would be better for soft playing only. I'll have to check it out.
> 
> Happy buying!


btw... regarding the noise in Berlin Orchestra (OT) piano... I have not experienced anything, at least not anything that would you hear over an orchestra playing!


----------



## OleJoergensen

Jett Hitt said:


> So there is a Staffpad User Group on Facebook. I spent the evening going through all of their posts back through March. You can hear a lot there, including pianos. I haven't found a side by side comparison, but at this point, my gut feeling is that the Berlin libraries seem to be the preference. You can certainly hear the Berlin piano in this group.


Here are some ex. With Steinway D.


----------



## wcreed51

ProfoundSilence said:


> anyone here experienced staffpad on a non-surface windows ink device?



I'm using a Dell Latitude 5290. I had a lot of trouble making 8th rests at first, but the 3.1.1 update fixed that issue, and recognition is good, especially since I'm just getting started with it. There's also now a choice to use a legacy inking mode, but I haven't tried that yet.


----------



## ltmusic

Hi to all

I would like to ask ..
1 Can staffpad be used with a touch screen on windows 10 ? 
2 are there plans for a future update to include real time midi recording ?


----------



## ProfoundSilence

ltmusic said:


> 1 Can staffpad be used with a touch screen on windows 10 ?



no. 

Staffpad uses a specific setup, requiring a few hardware components to utilize something called "Windows Ink"


----------



## psmk31452

brandowalk said:


> Go to the Store in the app and check out the walkthroughs or demos for each. Someone mentioned earlier that the links may have broken due to the update(?), but I see them now.
> 
> You will of course come to your own conclusion what is best for your needs. For me, I found the Berlin piano to be more suited as an orchestral piano (ie. on a concert stage) and thus is why I went that route. The Cinepiano I thought sounded like a slightly more closer mic'd recording, and actually more pleasant, ie. for solo piano work or towards more of a hollywood style orchestral sound.
> 
> Berlin does offer a more intimate sounding piano preset. I haven't used yet but I got the feeling it would be better for soft playing only. I'll have to check it out.
> 
> Happy buying!



Thanks so much for your response to my inquiry.

Yes, the links in the StaffPad store are not working.

Your comparison of the 2 pianos has helped tremendously.


----------



## Michael Antrum

psmk31452 said:


> Yes, the links in the StaffPad store are not working.




There was an update in for Staffpad in the Apple App Store today thats supposed to have fixed that. You might want to check if you have the latest version...


----------



## psmk31452

OleJoergensen said:


> Here are some ex. With Steinway D.





Thank you, Ole so much for the examples. That helps a great deal.

With your examples and "brandowalk's" opinions, I believe that I'll go with the Orchestral Grands.

As I stated earlier, I'll probably end up with both pianos in time. Just wanted to get an idea of the sound of both.

Thanks to both of you.

Paul


----------



## psmk31452

Michael Antrum said:


> There was an update in for Staffpad in the Apple App Store today thats supposed to have fixed that. You might want to check if you have the latest version...



Thanks Michael!!!!

Yes my report of the broken links was indeed very old news. (they weren't working last night 4/29 at around 9:00 PM California time)

They are now. (my error)


----------



## MisteR

Everything updated. Latest iPad. Still only seeing Felt Piano.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

MisteR said:


> Everything updated. Latest iPad. Still only seeing Felt Piano.


Same here.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Tone poem (in progress)


----------



## ltmusic

ProfoundSilence said:


> no.
> 
> Staffpad uses a specific setup, requiring a few hardware components to utilize something called "Windows Ink"



Thanks!!


----------



## dcoscina

Tilt & Flow said:


> Same here.


The new libraries will be released separately from the app update.


----------



## ism

OleJoergensen said:


> Tone poem (in progress)



I really like this.


----------



## jonathanparham

OleJoergensen said:


> Tone poem (in progress)



Wonderful to listen to on the Sabbath


----------



## CT

After initially being really excited about this, I cooled off and forgot about it a little. Interesting to see how it's shaped up over the last few months. Lots of really great demos being shared... hmmmm.


----------



## OleJoergensen

ism said:


> I really like this.


Im glad to hear, Thank you 😊


----------



## OleJoergensen

jonathanparham said:


> Wonderful to listen to on the Sabbath


Im glad To hear, thank you 😊.
Sabbath.....meaning Sunday?


----------



## jonathanparham

OleJoergensen said:


> Im glad To hear, thank you 😊.
> Sabbath.....meaning Sunday?


yes


----------



## rgames

Has anyone found a quick way to navigate back and forth? Say you're at bar 150 and want to go back to bar 25. Is there a "go to bar" entry somewhere? Better yet, can you go to a section marker?

Also, it seems like somtimes double-tapping the left arrow in the playback section goes to the start but not always. Sometimes I have to just drag all the way back because the double-tap doesn't work.

Thanks,

rgames


----------



## PaulBrimstone

rgames said:


> Has anyone found a quick way to navigate back and forth? Say you're at bar 150 and want to go back to bar 25. Is there a "go to bar" entry somewhere? Better yet, can you go to a section marker?
> 
> Also, it seems like somtimes double-tapping the left arrow in the playback section goes to the start but not always. Sometimes I have to just drag all the way back because the double-tap doesn't work.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> rgames


@rgames Try using the Fenby voice assistant and saying “Go to bar 10” or whatever. It works for me on iPad Pro, although I rarely think to use it, and it's not lightning fast.
Also, double pen tap on the left arrow always seems to work for back to start. I wonder if it is like one or two other commands, such as the undo/redo buttons, that occasionally stop working. The workaround to fix them is to close and reopen the file.


----------



## rgames

Oh yeah I also forgot about the Fenby guy...


----------



## brandowalk

OleJoergensen said:


> Tone poem (in progress)



This is beautiful and sounds like it could blossom nicely into a larger piece. Are you looking for feedback on the piece or sounds or both?


----------



## brandowalk

brandowalk said:


> This is beautiful and sounds like it could blossom nicely into a larger piece. Are you looking for feedback on the piece or sounds or both?


Ole - some questions:

I notice you are use both Spitfire and Berlin strings, and fits the style nicely. Are you using both for divisi functionality or other for some other reason?

Are you using spitfire symphonic or chamber strings?

I found listening to the demos that SCS and Berlin sounded pretty similar in terms of function and the room sound. Do you notice any noticeable advantages of one library vs the other?


----------



## dcoscina

A piece I started in Staffpad using all Berlin expansions. I just wish I had a larger display for this because there's a lot of staves! But alas, it was done on my wee modest Air3. Continuing to work on it this evening. It draws from the music vocab of Varese, Berg, and Bartok...so not light listening.


----------



## jonathanparham

dcoscina said:


> A piece I started in Staffpad using all Berlin expansions. I just wish I had a larger display for this because there's a lot of staves! But alas, it was done on my wee modest Air3. Continuing to work on it this evening. It draws from the music vocab of Varese, Berg, and Bartok...so not light listening.



pleasantly jarring so far. I've been working on runs with Staff pad this afternoon and it drives me crazy. once I get a septuplet I just copy and paste it. I see some 'orange' in your score so I know I'm not alone. lol


----------



## OleJoergensen

brandowalk said:


> This is beautiful and sounds like it could blossom nicely into a larger piece. Are you looking for feedback on the piece or sounds or both?


Thank you for offering feedback. At the moment I will just see where it goes. I hope it will be a larger piece then these 2 minutts. It will take some time.


----------



## OleJoergensen

brandowalk said:


> Ole - some questions:
> 
> I notice you are use both Spitfire and Berlin strings, and fits the style nicely. Are you using both for divisi functionality or other for some other reason?
> 
> Are you using spitfire symphonic or chamber strings?
> 
> I found listening to the demos that SCS and Berlin sounded pretty similar in terms of function and the room sound. Do you notice any noticeable advantages of one library vs the other?


But I dont use other than Berlin Strings...
I have thought about buying Spitfire chamber strings.


----------



## brandowalk

My error - my eyes tricked me! Yeah I was pondering getting SCS as well.

happy composing!


----------



## Montisquirrel

Hi everyone. I am new to the party but blown away from the videos about staffpad so far.
I read everything in this thread until page 20 (the Date of the postings there is February), so sorry, if some questions are already answered. I am also going to read the latest 27 pages, but right now I have some questions:

1) The main reason I am interested is that I love composing but hate midi editing.
Have you ever used the direct output from Staffpad for a client?
Do you think this is possible or do you need to go back to a DAW to a) write it again or b) only mix the wav.-stems?

2) I know the basics of notation and I am willing and to learn much more. In my opinion StaffPad is perfect for learning while doing, or do you have different experiences?

3) There are huge differences in the price range of the hardware. I use Windows, so I am not going to buy an iPad. I am looking at the Microsoft Surface Series. There is a new Surface Go 2 coming out next week, starting about 400€. StaffPad should work on this without any problems, right? Or do you recommend maximum of RAM when using all of the 3rd party libraries? I want no compromise regarding the playback, but I would buy a Surface just for Staffpad (so I guess no need for a Surface Pro 7 with high end hardware).

4) How big is the difference between midi editing in a DAW (CC01, CC 11, ect...) and the automation in StaffPad (only CC11 iirc). Do you need lot of micro-editing in StaffPad too? Do you use the automation in StaffPad a lot?

Looking forward to your aswers.

Finding this App gives me this wonderfull feeling in my body, when finding something new and exiting.

Is the Hype still real like in the postings until February?


----------



## dcoscina

Worked on my piece a little more... Still all Berlin Orch expansions.


----------



## gtrwll

Too bad it doesn’t work with the Logitech Crayon, since it got that earlier this year for taking notes on my iPad. Was considering getting a notation app to practise, but I think I have to consider other apps for that.


----------



## Jett Hitt

dcoscina said:


> Worked on my piece a little more... Still all Berlin Orch expansions.



I don't usually go in for this sort of thing, but this is REALLY well done. Kudos!


----------



## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> I don't usually go in for this sort of thing, but this is REALLY well done. Kudos!


Thanks Jett. I don't often work in this arena even though my composition prof in university was a student of Varese and he was big into this kind of writing. If I only had Staffpad back in 1988 when I was a student! Then again, I don't think I'd be writing in this manner. It took this long for me to be comfortable in that style.


----------



## MisteR

BTW, Is the podcast up yet?


----------



## dcoscina

MisteR said:


> BTW, Is the podcast up yet?


Sorry it should be later this week. I will post a link when it airs. It's my friend's show that hosts my stuff so I have to wait for him to publish it.


----------



## brandowalk

dcoscina said:


> Worked on my piece a little more... Still all Berlin Orch expansions.



Sounding good. Especially like some of the harmonization in the strings. Like where you are going with it getting big!


----------



## thesteelydane

Anyone else having problems installing libraries all of a sudden. It seems to download fine, but then there’s nothing there, and after installing it says “available for download” again


----------



## wcreed51

There's a Berlin Brass update mentioned over on the FB group. Is it just for iOS? How do updates show up for PC?


----------



## Jett Hitt

wcreed51 said:


> There's a Berlin Brass update mentioned over on the FB group. Is it just for iOS? How do updates show up for PC?


I don't see any updates.

Edit: Oh wait, yes I do. I had to quit the app and restart to see it. I am on iOS.


----------



## wcreed51

You see it in the app or in the app store?


----------



## jonathanparham

thesteelydane said:


> Anyone else having problems installing libraries all of a sudden. It seems to download fine, but then there’s nothing there, and after installing it says “available for download” again


no. but after installing Berlin Strings my Surface Pro and Staffpad take longer to open. It might be a 'cloud thing' Microsoft uses one drive and staffpad files and the backups go there


----------



## gfcgfc

wcreed51 said:


> You see it in the app or in the app store?


In the app


----------



## wcreed51

Don't see anything, so guess it's iOS only


----------



## erikradbo

The sound of this is quite unbelievable. Does anyone know of any similar software or plugin that uses regular libraries in a DAW? 

It's a lot to splash out another €500 for the app and libraries when already owning the ones I want of these, but in the regular version. And then the iPad  . If it's possible on an iPad it should really be possible on a computer...Noteperformer is great, but would also be a new investment.


----------



## dcoscina

erikradbo said:


> The sound of this is quite unbelievable. Does anyone know of any similar software or plugin that uses regular libraries in a DAW?
> 
> It's a lot to splash out another €500 for the app and libraries when already owning the ones I want of these, but in the regular version. And then the iPad  . If it's possible on an iPad it should really be possible on a computer...Noteperformer is great, but would also be a new investment.



NotePerformer was very good when used in Dorico or Sibelius. But Staffpad with those expansion libraries is just another level. The sound destroys NotePerformer.


----------



## J-M

When my Android tablet eventually slows down too much (or the PRO adds another zero in my next royalties statement...yeah, right) I'll invest in an iPad. I'm missing out some pretty cool stuff. :/ I can already imagine myself in Lapland, sitting by the lake and scoring the hell out of the view. :D


----------



## sundrowned

erikradbo said:


> The sound of this is quite unbelievable. Does anyone know of any similar software or plugin that uses regular libraries in a DAW?
> 
> It's a lot to splash out another €500 for the app and libraries when already owning the ones I want of these, but in the regular version. And then the iPad  . If it's possible on an iPad it should really be possible on a computer...Noteperformer is great, but would also be a new investment.




I works on a standard pc with a pen tablet. It's not designed for it so it's not ideal but it works. I'm using it that way. It even works just with a keyboard and mouse but it's not really practical using a mouse to write.


----------



## pizzarco

erikradbo said:


> The sound of this is quite unbelievable. Does anyone know of any similar software or plugin that uses regular libraries in a DAW?
> 
> It's a lot to splash out another €500 for the app and libraries when already owning the ones I want of these, but in the regular version. And then the iPad  . If it's possible on an iPad it should really be possible on a computer...Noteperformer is great, but would also be a new investment.


It seems the sample libraries they offer are customised specifically for its use in StaffPad to create the "realism". Some information here:








It's here: the StaffPad 2020 Update


StaffPad is a music notation and composition app designed for handwriting music recognition, touch editing, amazing playback, automatic score layout and realtime parts over WiFi. Available in the App Store for iPad and iPadOS, and the Windows Store for Windows 10.




www.staffpad.net





Whereas on a computer, all we do is simply download any library we prefer (can afford) and use in whatever DAW or notation software we have; so it's a more generic interaction. NotePerformer has been really lovely, especially given its small (download) size (I use it in Dorico) , but much prefer StaffPad's now and the samples offered by Staffpad are excellent.


----------



## erikradbo

sundrowned said:


> I works on a standard pc with a pen tablet. It's not designed for it so it's not ideal but it works. I'm using it that way. It even works just with a keyboard and mouse but it's not really practical using a mouse to write.



Yes, but I would still need those new packages. It would make sense if there would come an extension to logic / cubase that does this playback magic but with the existing libraries. And possibly an iPad function...someone else mentioned something like this as well.

I imagine spending €1500 on this and then in 6 months a 3rd party app comes out that allows notation entry on iPad and mac but also connects with kontakt for playback when using on the computer...so I can use my existing libraries. Here's to not spending right now and hoping for that to happend.


----------



## erikradbo

pizzarco said:


> It seems the sample libraries they offer are customised specifically for its use in StaffPad to create the "realism". Some information here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's here: the StaffPad 2020 Update
> 
> 
> StaffPad is a music notation and composition app designed for handwriting music recognition, touch editing, amazing playback, automatic score layout and realtime parts over WiFi. Available in the App Store for iPad and iPadOS, and the Windows Store for Windows 10.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.staffpad.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whereas on a computer, all we do is simply download any library we prefer (can afford) and use in whatever DAW or notation software we have; so it's a more generic interaction. NotePerformer has been really lovely, especially given its small (download) size (I use it in Dorico) , but much prefer StaffPad's now and the samples offered by Staffpad are excellent.



But it should be possible to connect those kontakt libraries to a notation software on a computer in a similar, all that is needed is the programming and then to point to where the actual samples are, or perhaps to the .nki files, or some other file, heck I don't know, but it should def be possible.


----------



## gfcgfc

erikradbo said:


> The sound of this is quite unbelievable. Does anyone know of any similar software or plugin that uses regular libraries in a DAW?
> 
> It's a lot to splash out another €500 for the app and libraries when already owning the ones I want of these, but in the regular version. And then the iPad  . If it's possible on an iPad it should really be possible on a computer...Noteperformer is great, but would also be a new investment.


You can use Notion.
Write notation on ipad using stock sounds (or on a pc/mac if you don’t care about pencil) than move to a pc/mac and use custom rules (you can find a lot of them on the presonus notion forum) to drive standard kontakt or play or other vst based libraries.
It’s not as immediate as Staffpad but it works.


----------



## nilblo

I´m investing in VSL instruments instead of buying Staffpad libraries. Stock instruments for Staffpad as well as the instruments in Notion for iPad are fine for sketching imo. With the rulesets available for Notion/Windows + VSL´s SYNCHRON-ized libraries and SYNCHRON Player I have the best setup for my money. I can even tailor the acoustics of the "imagined" venue if I add MIR Pro24 to my setup. But I´ll keep the Surface Pro + Staffpad in my crossbody bag..


----------



## dcoscina

erikradbo said:


> Yes, but I would still need those new packages. It would make sense if there would come an extension to logic / cubase that does this playback magic but with the existing libraries. And possibly an iPad function...someone else mentioned something like this as well.
> 
> I imagine spending €1500 on this and then in 6 months a 3rd party app comes out that allows notation entry on iPad and mac but also connects with kontakt for playback when using on the computer...so I can use my existing libraries. Here's to not spending right now and hoping for that to happend.


Seems highly doubtful...


----------



## Ruffian Price

erikradbo said:


> But it should be possible to connect those kontakt libraries to a notation software on a computer in a similar, all that is needed is the programming and then to point to where the actual samples are, or perhaps to the .nki files, or some other file, heck I don't know, but it should def be possible.


All third party samplers that claim Kontakt support only work with files made up to version 3. Kontakt 4 and onwards encrypts the files, even if they're not for a licensed library.

The limiting factor here is the concept of MIDI. It's been mentioned before, but you can't do stuff like automatically anticipating dynamics changes or slurs in a regular DAW, because _the plugins can't see your piano roll_ - all they can do is react to the MIDI messages the DAW sends out in realtime. If you want increased realism without the busywork, you need to either increase the playback delay massively, or do away with third-party protocols and control the entire workflow from note entry to sample playback, like StaffPad does.


----------



## Eric G

Montisquirrel said:


> Hi everyone. I am new to the party but blown away from the videos about staffpad so far.
> I read everything in this thread until page 20 (the Date of the postings there is February), so sorry, if some questions are already answered. I am also going to read the latest 27 pages, but right now I have some questions:
> 
> 1) The main reason I am interested is that I love composing but hate midi editing.
> Have you ever used the direct output from Staffpad for a client?
> Do you think this is possible or do you need to go back to a DAW to a) write it again or b) only mix the wav.-stems?
> 
> 2) I know the basics of notation and I am willing and to learn much more. In my opinion StaffPad is perfect for learning while doing, or do you have different experiences?
> 
> 3) There are huge differences in the price range of the hardware. I use Windows, so I am not going to buy an iPad. I am looking at the Microsoft Surface Series. There is a new Surface Go 2 coming out next week, starting about 400€. StaffPad should work on this without any problems, right? Or do you recommend maximum of RAM when using all of the 3rd party libraries? I want no compromise regarding the playback, but I would buy a Surface just for Staffpad (so I guess no need for a Surface Pro 7 with high end hardware).
> 
> 4) How big is the difference between midi editing in a DAW (CC01, CC 11, ect...) and the automation in StaffPad (only CC11 iirc). Do you need lot of micro-editing in StaffPad too? Do you use the automation in StaffPad a lot?
> 
> Looking forward to your aswers.
> 
> Finding this App gives me this wonderfull feeling in my body, when finding something new and exiting.
> 
> Is the Hype still real like in the postings until February?



1) Yes you can but I wouldn't. I mix and master in ProTools. Staffpad just released STEM export which was the game changer I needed. I am not going back to the DAW. But I do see overdubbing with certain VST as needed. So ProTools will always be in the picture for me because I am a control freak.

2) Go with Notation. It will serve you well. Then go buys some scores from the masters and see the matrix.

3) I would always max out in ram. 16GB should be the bare minimum but StaffPad runs on My surface Book without problem. I would say on Windows you have to stop running any heavy background services like Skype etc.. otherwise you will experience dropouts. No different than when you use a DAW.

4) No Micro editing required especially with the recent export instrument STEMS for mixing in ProTools.


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## Montisquirrel

Eric G said:


> 1) Yes you can but I wouldn't. I mix and master in ProTools. Staffpad just released STEM export which was the game changer I needed. I am not going back to the DAW. But I do see overdubbing with certain VST as needed. So ProTools will always be in the picture for me because I am a control freak.
> 
> 2) Go with Notation. It will serve you well. Then go buys some scores from the masters and see the matrix.
> 
> 3) I would always max out in ram. 16GB should be the bare minimum but StaffPad runs on My surface Book without problem. I would say on Windows you have to stop running any heavy background services like Skype etc.. otherwise you will experience dropouts. No different than when you use a DAW.
> 
> 4) No Micro editing required especially with the recent export instrument STEMS for mixing in ProTools.



Thank you Eric for the detailed answers. I think I am going to get a new Surface pro 7 soon. 

I have heard nothing about importing your own wav/mp3 files. This would be perfect, because I often mix orchestral instruments with electronic drums. Having one (or more) tracks in Staffpad for this purpose would be awesome. Also for transcribing other composers music.


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## jonathanparham

I just read about this machine this morning==> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08319MF76/?coliid=I24ZHQCBO8KR2E&colid=MEBZQ7RZJU3C&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it (Chuwi Hi10X) I was just wondering if this could be a way to have an inexpensive backup for Staffpad.

Anyone try this?


----------



## prodigalson

Just chiming in to mention that I can confirm handwriting recognition seems significantly improved on the iPad in the latest update.


----------



## Michael Antrum

prodigalson said:


> Just chiming in to mention that I can confirm handwriting recognition seems significantly improved on the iPad in the latest update.



Are you referring to the 1.1.1 update ? or has there been another one recently ?


----------



## Denkii

prodigalson said:


> Just chiming in to mention that I can confirm handwriting recognition seems significantly improved on the iPad in the latest update.


^
Can anyone confirm if this is the case for Windows too?

I would also be interested in what your windows hardware for Staffpad is and how many instruments you can playback without running into problems. Please also state if that counts for stock or 3rd party libraries.


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## wcreed51

Yes, much better on Windows too. I'm using a Dell Latitude 5290 2in1. Can't comment on playback, as I've only working on chamber sized pieces.


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## jonathanparham

Got the Berlin Add Ons over the weekend. Just sketching a melody I had in my head. No mixing. 
BTW during the Staffpad Livestream the video shows and 'Ambience One Pack.' Anyone see that in the store yet?


----------



## NickDorito

Haven't been able to find an answer to this question. If I use the Spitfire collection, for example, in Staffpad, can it export midi with CC data/keyswitches so I can take it into my DAW and edit it further?


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## dcoscina

no it doesn't work that way. Staffpad doesn't use KS like Kontakt-based or full versions do. 

You can export MIDI file or a XML file to Dorico or Sibelius however. That will recognize articulations and dynamics.


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## dcoscina

Some more progress on my piece using Staffpad and Berlin libraries


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## Denkii

dcoscina said:


> Some more progress on my piece using Staffpad and Berlin libraries



I like that so much. It's incredible to me that this comes directly out of a notation app.


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## jonathanparham

dcoscina said:


> Some more progress on my piece using Staffpad and Berlin libraries



more tension. I like the percussion


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## MisteR

dcoscina said:


> Some more progress on my piece using Staffpad and Berlin libraries



That sounds great. Is it Berlin percussion as well?


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## dcoscina

MisteR said:


> That sounds great. Is it Berlin percussion as well?


yeah it's all Berlin. I have CinePerc but since getting Berlin Percussion, I prefer it. It's not great at low dynamics (pp barely registers for most instruments) but I like the one of it a bit better especially in the pitched percussion.


----------



## dcoscina

Denkii said:


> I like that so much. It's incredible to me that this comes directly out of a notation app.


I couldn't have written this in a DAW. Not in a week at least...


----------



## dcoscina

jonathanparham said:


> more tension. I like the percussion


I have a habit of rushing through sections when I write concert music. It's my incessant need to keep things lively and not static so I will be extending some of the sections so the whole piece breaths better.


----------



## dcoscina

My interview with David (I created a separate thread too since this might get buried and missed)








COMPOSER CONVERSATIONS WITH DAVID COSCINA – EPISODE 2: DAVID WILLIAM HEARN


Welcome to the second episode of COMPOSER CONVERSATIONS WITH DAVID COSCINA on CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO. On today's episode, David sits down with David William Hearn. David William Hearn is an English composer, arranger and music producer based in London whose…




www.cinematicsound.net


----------



## PaulBrimstone

dcoscina said:


> My interview with David (I created a separate thread too since this might get buried and missed)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COMPOSER CONVERSATIONS WITH DAVID COSCINA – EPISODE 2: DAVID WILLIAM HEARN
> 
> 
> Welcome to the second episode of COMPOSER CONVERSATIONS WITH DAVID COSCINA on CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO. On today's episode, David sits down with David William Hearn. David William Hearn is an English composer, arranger and music producer based in London whose…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cinematicsound.net


Been waiting for this!


----------



## dcoscina

PaulBrimstone said:


> Been waiting for this!


Thanks for your patience!


----------



## jonathanparham

dcoscina said:


> My interview with David (I created a separate thread too since this might get buried and missed)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COMPOSER CONVERSATIONS WITH DAVID COSCINA – EPISODE 2: DAVID WILLIAM HEARN
> 
> 
> Welcome to the second episode of COMPOSER CONVERSATIONS WITH DAVID COSCINA on CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO. On today's episode, David sits down with David William Hearn. David William Hearn is an English composer, arranger and music producer based in London whose…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cinematicsound.net


Too bad he doesn't reveal a lot about the future of staffpad. BUT very enjoyable hearing his background with music and sample library development which I had no idea about. My wish is not only more new developers but having developers make desktop and staffpad bundles for their products. It was a good interview and thanks for creating it and sharing it.


----------



## dcoscina

jonathanparham said:


> Too bad he doesn't reveal a lot about the future of staffpad. BUT very enjoyable hearing his background with music and sample library development which I had no idea about. My wish is not only more new developers but having developers make desktop and staffpad bundles for their products. It was a good interview and thanks for creating it and sharing it.


Thanks Jon. I admire that David doesn't want to tip his hat to what the future holds. We all know what happens when developers over-promise and under deliver. And remember he's worked with Alex Wallbank who is the perfect example of keeping things pretty scaled down and just release kick ass products.


----------



## emasters

dcoscina said:


> My interview with David (I created a separate thread too since this might get buried and missed)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COMPOSER CONVERSATIONS WITH DAVID COSCINA – EPISODE 2: DAVID WILLIAM HEARN
> 
> 
> Welcome to the second episode of COMPOSER CONVERSATIONS WITH DAVID COSCINA on CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO. On today's episode, David sits down with David William Hearn. David William Hearn is an English composer, arranger and music producer based in London whose…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cinematicsound.net



Thanks for sharing! Really interesting to hear the background info and get context about the app and team.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

so far I've found that it's not consistent enough to make me want to purchase the extra libraries. 

ymmv 

but it does work on my lenovo c940, for those looking for a non-surface win10 solution. on the plus side, the stylus charges directly in the laptop, and you can rotate the device sideways, which is great.


----------



## Ric4001

If you buy the add on libraries for IOS, do you have to buy them again if you switch to the PC version of Staffpad?


----------



## micrologus

Ric4001 said:


> If you buy the add on libraries for IOS, do you have to buy them again if you switch to the PC version of Staffpad?


Yes


----------



## Eric G

NickDorito said:


> Haven't been able to find an answer to this question. If I use the Spitfire collection, for example, in Staffpad, can it export midi with CC data/keyswitches so I can take it into my DAW and edit it further?


There are no Keyswitches. CC11 and Tempo are exported.

Keyswitches are a PC/DAW/Sampler concept. StaffPad has a custom engine with bespoke versions of each library for their engine.


----------



## Denkii

Could you use staffpad with a cintiq pro pen&touch?


----------



## Eric G

Denkii said:


> Could you use staffpad with a cintiq pro pen&touch?


Before I moved to my Surface Studio, I used it on an XP-Pen (pen only not touch) so I don't see why not:


----------



## Denkii

And everything that's supposed to be touch can then be applied with mouse clicks instead?


----------



## Eric G

Denkii said:


> And everything that's supposed to be touch can then be applied with mouse clicks instead?


Pinch to Zoom in and out may be an issue without touch. But scrolling should be fine with a pen touching empty spaces in the score.


----------



## dcoscina

Eric G said:


> Before I moved to my Surface Studio, I used it on an XP-Pen (pen only not touch) so I don't see why not:



I don't love Windoze but the idea of using Staffpad on the Surface Studio is exceptionally tasty. One day perhaps. Then I'd have to re purchased all my libraries again. LOL.


----------



## jonathanparham

ProfoundSilence said:


> but it does work on my lenovo c940, for those looking for a non-surface win10 solution. on the plus side, the stylus charges directly in the laptop, and you can rotate the device sideways, which is great.


good to know. I just ordered batteries for my Surface Pro 3


----------



## wcreed51

The Dell Canvas looks pretty tasty too! I assume You could just plug it into your MAC.


----------



## sundrowned

Denkii said:


> And everything that's supposed to be touch can then be applied with mouse clicks instead?



I 'm using a Wacom Bamboo bought for peanuts on ebay. 

I've set one of the buttons on the pen to pan/scroll. So by holding the button down I can move around the score. And I've assigned 'ctrl' to one of the buttons on the tablet so by pressing that and the pen button I can zoom. I can also do it with the mouse scroll wheel.


----------



## sundrowned

Am I allowed to share unfinished snippets here? 

Here's a noodle I've been working on with only Spitfire Symphonic Strings. (Plus berlin bass) 
Straight out of staffpad and not much editing. I haven't been composing long so don't expect too much  I love this app though.


----------



## dcoscina

wcreed51 said:


> The Dell Canvas looks pretty tasty too! I assume You could just plug it into your MAC.


That wouldn’t work because Staffpad is only written for Windows 10 and iOS OS. Not Apple OSX.


----------



## A.N.D.I

Hello. I am a newbie. I would like to buy a Surface tablet to use Staffpad. And I don't want to pay too much. But which one has enough power when only using the included sounds? Pro 6, Go 2? Or another manufacturer?
Thanks for your help.


----------



## CatOrchestra

It would be nice if one could see the cost of addons before purchasing the app - is this possible?

I wonder how well the iPad Air 3 works with this app and its addons?


----------



## Jett Hitt

CatOrchestra said:


> It would be nice if one could see the cost of addons before purchasing the app - is this possible?
> 
> I wonder how well the iPad Air 3 works with this app and its addons?


Basically all of the major sections of the orchestra cost $99, so $396 for a full orchestra. Want a harp? Add $69. Want a piano? Add another $69. @dcoscina can speak about the Air 3.


----------



## wcreed51

But it's nice that you can buy a section at a time, as your finances allow.


----------



## dcoscina

CatOrchestra said:


> It would be nice if one could see the cost of addons before purchasing the app - is this possible?
> 
> I wonder how well the iPad Air 3 works with this app and its addons?


I have an Air3 and since 1.1.1 it's fine. I do notice some crackles in the audio stream when moving notes around that I don't hear on my 2020 iPad Pro 11" but aside from that, it works fine. Oh, rendering of large orchestral works can be a bit of a challenge. But again, since 1.1.1 no issues.


----------



## samphony

I’m close to pull the trigger! What would be better 11“ or 12,9“ iPad Pro?


----------



## jonathanparham

samphony said:


> I’m close to pull the trigger! What would be better 11“ or 12,9“ iPad Pro?


i'm on Surface Pro, but I'd say the larger screen: the better


----------



## Jett Hitt

samphony said:


> I’m close to pull the trigger! What would be better 11“ or 12,9“ iPad Pro?


I got the 12.9 iPad Pro, and I couldn't be happier. The 11 would work fine, but more real estate is nice.


----------



## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> I got the 12.9 iPad Pro, and I couldn't be happier. The 11 would work fine, but more real estate is nice.


very true for home use. I like the portability of the 11" however


----------



## wcreed51

I'm used to a 40" 4k on my desktop, so 12" seems pretty claustrophobic. I was just browsing Surface Studios on Ebay. Referb for $2500. I wonder if my wife would notice it on my desk. Also wondering if MS will ever release the SS monitor by itself. That would be perfect!


----------



## Denkii

We have a surface pro 6 and an iPad pro 2018 11" in the house.
Originally we got the 12.9" iPad but it was a pain to use it non stationary. It just doesn't feel right. It's too heavy and uncomfortable for holding it in your hand or comfortably working away with it (or watching Netflix, let's be real here) on the couch.

We got rid of the 12.9" and got the 11" then and would never go back. As long as you don't want to replace a laptop I'd say get the 11" but that's just me. Yes the bigger screen real estate is nice, especially for drawing, so I'd assume the same goes for staffpad, but only really bearable as a stationary device. You'll not want to hold that in your hands while using it.
The 11" comes with the benefit of a noticeably longer battery life, at least in our case. I didn't do any tests but I'd say that you get 1-2 hours more pure usage out of it over the 12.9".

I'm a windows person though so if I get staffpad I'll get it for the surface. If I ever end up not having a surface later on, I'll always have a windows desktop where I could use a tablet to still run staffpad and would not have wasted the money on those in app library purchases if they were on iOS.


----------



## MisteR

CatOrchestra said:


> It would be nice if one could see the cost of addons before purchasing the app - is this possible?



Here's a list of what's available and U.S. prices on the iOS side:

STAFFPAD ADD-ONS:
Toy Glockenspiel - FREE
Guitars Vol. 1 - $9.99
Accordion - $6.99
Retro Keyboards (Fender Rhodes, Wurlitzer A200, Hammond, Challen upright) - $19.99
Antique Keys (collection of 20 rare historic keyboard instruments--harpsichords. celestes, spinets, piano fortes) - $54.99

AUDIOOLLIE:
Scoring Synths - $69.99

ORCHESTRAL TOOLS: THE BERLIN SERIES:

Berlin Strings - $99.00
Berlin Brass - $99.00
Berlin Woodwinds - $99.00
Berlin Percussion - $99.00
First Chairs - $99.00
Symphonic Harps - $69.99
The Orchestral Grands - $69.99

THE SPITFIRE AUDIO COLLECTION:

Spitfire Symphonic Strings - $99.00
Spitfire Symphonic Brass - $99.00
Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds - $99.00
Spitfire Symphonic Percussion - $99.00
Spitfire Chamber Strings - $99.00
Felt Piano - $29.99
Steel Drums - $29.99
Union Chapel Organ - $29.99

CINESAMPLES:

CineStrings - $99.00
CineStrings Solo - $69.00
CineBrass - $99.00
CineWinds - $99.00
CinePerc - $99.00
CineHarps - $69.99
CinePiano - $69.99
Voxos Choirs - $99.00


----------



## PaulBrimstone

samphony said:


> I’m close to pull the trigger! What would be better 11“ or 12,9“ iPad Pro?


+1 for the 11-inch. I take mine almost everywhere—beach, bed, couch, car etc., and it is so much easier to deal with than a 12.9. You’d have to zoom in often for StaffPad on the larger model anyway, so I say go with lightness and convenience.


----------



## Montisquirrel

MisteR said:


> Here's a list of what's available and U.S. prices on the iOS side:
> 
> STAFFPAD ADD-ONS:
> Toy Glockenspiel - FREE
> Guitars Vol. 1 - $9.99
> Accordion - $6.99
> Retro Keyboards (Fender Rhodes, Wurlitzer A200, Hammond, Challen upright) - $19.99
> Antique Keys (collection of 20 rare historic keyboard instruments--harpsichords. celestes, spinets, piano fortes) - $54.99
> 
> AUDIOOLLIE:
> Scoring Synths - $69.99
> 
> ORCHESTRAL TOOLS: THE BERLIN SERIES:
> 
> Berlin Strings - $99.00
> Berlin Brass - $99.00
> Berlin Woodwinds - $99.00
> Berlin Percussion - $99.00
> First Chairs - $99.00
> Symphonic Harps - $69.99
> The Orchestral Grands - $69.99
> 
> THE SPITFIRE AUDIO COLLECTION:
> 
> Spitfire Symphonic Strings - $99.00
> Spitfire Symphonic Brass - $99.00
> Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds - $99.00
> Spitfire Symphonic Percussion - $99.00
> Spitfire Chamber Strings - $99.00
> Felt Piano - $29.99
> Steel Drums - $29.99
> Union Chapel Organ - $29.99
> 
> CINESAMPLES:
> 
> CineStrings - $99.00
> CineStrings Solo - $69.00
> CineBrass - $99.00
> CineWinds - $99.00
> CinePerc - $99.00
> CineHarps - $69.99
> CinePiano - $69.99
> Voxos Choirs - $99.00



Thanks for this overview. I guess it should be the same for Windows.

Nice to see a Synth pack. Didn't know that before. Now I want this App even more.


----------



## Michael Antrum

samphony said:


> I’m close to pull the trigger! What would be better 11“ or 12,9“ iPad Pro?



I would also add this into the equation. I just bought a 12.9” 2020 256gb iPad Pro, as I too had a big um and ahh over which size to get. Yes the 11” is more portable, but the extra screen real estate is a big improvement when working on full orchestral Scores, but the main reason I chose the 12.9” had nothing to do with Staffpad at all.

I also have an app called ForScore, which will eventually have all my sheet music in it. I can load up my sheet music and the screen is big enough to comfortably read the music on my piano stand. So now I no longer have to cart around big books of music, and that is a major plus for me that outweighs the slightly better portability of the 11”.
(you can even get a Bluetooth foot switch that will perform page turning for you.)


----------



## Jett Hitt

There are some real arguments here for the 11". I sit back in my chair and hold the 12.9 with some success--some. I have a lot of trouble with my knuckle activating the enter text box. I can see where an 11 would be more convenient.


----------



## samphony

wcreed51 said:


> I'm used to a 40" 4k on my desktop, so 12" seems pretty claustrophobic. I was just browsing Surface Studios on Ebay. Referb for $2500. I wonder if my wife would notice it on my desk. Also wondering if MS will ever release the SS monitor by itself. That would be perfect!


Oh yes a Surface Studio screen only version would be awesome.


----------



## samphony

Thanks everyone for input regarding the ipad screen size!


----------



## thevisi0nary

I’m so interested in this, but the idea of the Add-Ons being non transferable really puts me off. I bought an iPad Pro recently for drawing, and if I get staffpad and start buying the expansions, then I am locked into iPads for the remainder of time. Unless I want to buy everything twice.


----------



## Denkii

thevisi0nary said:


> I’m so interested in this, but the idea of the Add-Ons being non transferable really puts me off. I bought an iPad Pro recently for drawing, and if I get staffpad and start buying the expansions, then I am locked into iPads for the remainder of time. Unless I want to buy everything twice.


Exactly my thought process, hence windows for me because you can still make it work even without a surface.


----------



## thevisi0nary

Denkii said:


> Exactly my thought process, hence windows for me because you can still make it work even without a surface.



Yeah. All of my main machines are windows, but I like the iPad as my portable device. Getting staffpad on the iPad is convenient right now, but prevents me from ever transitioning over to a windows tablet if I want one in the future. Especially if I like it enough to use on desktop.


----------



## J.T.

What's the latest word on how well this works on the iPad Pro for lefties?


----------



## brandowalk

No issue for this south paw on iPad pro


----------



## Nickie Fønshauge

I never had any problems using my iPad Pro 12.9" on the sofa or in a comfortable chair, but then again I bought one of these cases, which supports it really well and protects it even better. I would definitely not want less than 12.9".


----------



## brandowalk

Nickie Fønshauge said:


> I never had any problems using my iPad Pro 12.9" on the sofa or in a comfortable chair, but then again I bought one of these cases, which supports it really well and protects it even better. I would definitely not want less than 12.9".



Same here. As someone said before, if there was a larger iPad than 12.9”, I’d probably get it! 😀

I’ve had no issues using the 12.9” in bed, in a chair outside, or anywhere really. But what works for one person isn’t the same for another of course.

I have a second generation iPad Pro so have to use the first gen Apple Pencil. I hated using the pencil and almost gave up on StaffPad until I bought a silicon magnetic sleeve for it, as well as a charging station for the pencil. The pencil sticks to the iPad or the case so I don’t lose it. The sleeve also keeps the pencil from getting too sweaty and from rolling. Extra $ but totally worth it for me.


----------



## CatOrchestra

It is unlucky that the latest iPad pro is a "minor" upgrade, wonder when the next iPad pro will arrive?









Why is the 2020 iPad Pro such a minor upgrade?


The new iPad Pro has a few notable updates, but itu2019s not really any faster than the previous model. So why bother with an upgrade? Jason Snell has some theories.




www.macworld.com


----------



## dcoscina

CatOrchestra said:


> It is unlucky that the latest iPad pro is a "minor" upgrade, wonder when the next iPad pro will arrive?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the 2020 iPad Pro such a minor upgrade?
> 
> 
> The new iPad Pro has a few notable updates, but itu2019s not really any faster than the previous model. So why bother with an upgrade? Jason Snell has some theories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.macworld.com


It’s a minor upgrade for people with the 2018 Pros. If you have no iPad at all or are moving up from an older model like the Air2, it’s a huge bump in speed and processing power.


----------



## dcoscina

J.T. said:


> What's the latest word on how well this works on the iPad Pro for lefties?


It’s fine. Im left handed and I’ve had no problems since 1.1.1


----------



## saboo

OMFG FINALLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

edit: just saw the price. nvm


----------



## CatOrchestra

dcoscina said:


> It’s a minor upgrade for people with the 2018 Pros. If you have no iPad at all or are moving up from an older model like the Air2, it’s a huge bump in speed and processing power.



True, was thinking this makes 2nd hand iPad 2018s pro more tempting : )
But I think I will wait for the next iPad pro and use other stuff in the meantime


----------



## dcoscina

CatOrchestra said:


> True, was thinking this makes 2nd hand iPad 2018s pro more tempting : )
> But I think I will wait for the next iPad pro and use other stuff in the meantime


It works fine on the iPad Air3 which is considerably less than the Pros but with almost the same horsepower. At least in single core performance. the Pro smokes the Air in multicore.

EDIT
The Air3 only has 3gb of RAM compared to the 2020 Pro 6gb. I've read that even the older A10x chip still does better in processing against the A12 chip. I bought a 2020 Pro, thought about returning it because I didn't see a huge difference in power from Staffpad but I figured it's more future proof (USB-C, A12z chip, more storage) so I kept it. And I LOVE the quad speakers. The Air3 speakers are pitiful by comparison.


----------



## J.T.

OleJoergensen said:


>




Very nice.

How do you deal with not being to see the whole score at a glance as you write? Lots of scrolling involved I'm guessing.


----------



## OleJoergensen

J.T. said:


> Very nice.
> 
> How do you deal with not being to see the whole score at a glance as you write? Lots of scrolling involved I'm guessing.


It was when I did the screen recording, I turned of scroll doing playback. But I also had to do it when the audio starts droping out. I think it was adding the 1st chair that was to much for the Ipad. So next composition I will add 1st chair in last workflow. In this composition I used 1st chair as a “close mic”. It didn't get louder, just a bit more texture for the strings.


----------



## wcreed51

I'm hoping that StaffPad will gain some sort of staff set feature to work with smaller groupings of instruments on one screen


----------



## jonathanparham

OleJoergensen said:


> It was when I did the screen recording, I turned of scroll doing playback. But I aslo had to do it when the audio starts droping out. I think it was adding the 1st chair that was to much for the Ipad. So next composition I will add 1st chair in last workflow. In this composition I used 1st chair as a “close mic”. It didn't get louder, just a bit more texture for the strings.


mentioned this on the FB group. But this is helpful. I did send a support tix to Staffpad. I suggested to Mr. Hearn that maybe they should update the list of their compatible devices. My Surface Pro 3 struggles with the Berlin add ons. Something of the sort like, 'For best results these levels or versions or ipad and surface devices etc. . . ' Not regretting my surface as I got it for the first version of Staffpad in 2015. Looking to getting something for it in the near future. I can't ignore how helpful Staffpad is to my writing.


----------



## johnny.flynn

Anybody have any idea when orchestral tools’ glory days is coming to the staffpad store? I know they’re developing it for the platform. Right now brass mutes and saxes would fill a huge hole in the palette. Anyone writing jazz, for instance, is limited to the stock sounds save for drums, pianos and the other reeds.


----------



## OleJoergensen

jonathanparham said:


> mentioned this on the FB group. But this is helpful. I did send a support tix to Staffpad. I suggested to Mr. Hearn that maybe they should update the list of their compatible devices. My Surface Pro 3 struggles with the Berlin add ons. Something of the sort like, 'For best results these levels or versions or ipad and surface devices etc. . . ' Not regretting my surface as I got it for the first version of Staffpad in 2015. Looking to getting something for it in the near future. I can't ignore how helpful Staffpad is to my writing.


Im dreaming about a furtue 15” twin turbo Ipad pro .
as Wcreed51 says, it will be good if Staffpad implemented some kind of staff feature, maybe and On/Off track setting.


----------



## dcoscina

OleJoergensen said:


> Im dreaming about a furtue 15” twin turbo Ipad pro .
> as Wcreed51 says, it will be good if Staffpad implemented some kind of staff feature, maybe and On/Off track setting.


Just imagine if Apple put out the equivalent to the Surface Studio. 30" ipad display with crazy specs. The thing would cost as much as the new Mac Pro! LOL. 

I love Apple product but their pricing frankly sucks. The CAD dollar sucks too which doesn't help.


----------



## jonathanparham

OleJoergensen said:


> Im dreaming about a furtue 15” twin turbo Ipad pro .


Well imo that's we're PC hardware beats apple. Can you imagine going from a surface go2, to a surface book 3, and finally a Surface Studio? The reality is, this can be done now in Staffpad.


----------



## jonathanparham

dcoscina said:


> Just imagine if Apple put out the equivalent to the Surface Studio. 30" ipad display with crazy specs. The thing would cost as much as the new Mac Pro! LOL.
> 
> I love Apple product but their pricing frankly sucks. The CAD dollar sucks too which doesn't help.


I was looking at the Microsoft line over the weekend. Does anyone know if staffpad will work on the surface hub which has a 50" display? It has a i5 and it's own pen.


----------



## dcoscina

jonathanparham said:


> Well imo that's we're PC hardware beats apple. Can you imagine going from a surface go2, to a surface book 3, and finally a Surface Studio? The reality is, this can be done now in Staffpad.


If Staffpad keeps moving in the direction David said it was heading, I could see investing in a Surface Studio down the line rather than buying an iMac or whatever.  But I'm not regularly writing music for media. I do score games these days but no longer doing ad work, nor features. And I'm really working more on concert works. They are infinitely more rewarding from a music standpoint. I can write crazy ass stuff and not worry that it will get tossed because the client doesn't like it.

Apparently Nick Dodd uses the Surface Studio and is crazy good with it. But then again, the guy is a genius. Favourite line from the interview from David Hearn "Nick usually has a piece finished before my Mac boots up!"
lol


----------



## jonathanparham

dcoscina said:


> If Staffpad keeps moving in the direction David said it was heading, I could see investing in a Surface Studio down the line rather than buying an iMac or whatever.


Agreed. For my personal use it'll come down to how many more libraries Staffpad comes out with. In my last support tix to Staffpad, I teased Mr. Hearn, that he was using libraries that the public can't buy yet. lol




dcoscina said:


> But I'm not regularly writing music for media. I do score games these days but no longer doing ad work, nor features. And I'm really working more on concert works. They are infinitely more rewarding from a music standpoint. I can write crazy ass stuff and not worry that it will get tossed because the client doesn't like it.


Wonderful position your career is in. I've posted things on my FB and have had filmmakers and composers give likes and ask questions. To one composer acquaintance, I said, I see demoing and pitching with this, but you can't write to picture yet because of no image burn-in and no MTC/SMPTE. Yet your quote above shows a bright future imo. If you're writing for live players AND not to picture; Staffpad is like what Pro Tools was for engineering and sound design 25 years ago. You can just take this software and write and give out score and parts. Not to mention the readers on the band stand. I think it's an amazing tool for concert and jazz folks. But there's a lot of other things needed for others. But I'm gladly going to invest in a newer surface and more add ons. The immediacy of my writing can't be ignored. 



dcoscina said:


> Apparently Nick Dodd uses the Surface Studio and is crazy good with it. But then again, the guy is a genius. Favourite line from the interview from David Hearn "Nick usually has a piece finished before my Mac boots up!"
> lol


 Please educate me on Nick Dodd. Mr. Hearn says Dodd was one of the first users and gets up at 4AM everyday too.


----------



## OleJoergensen

dcoscina said:


> Just imagine if Apple put out the equivalent to the Surface Studio. 30" ipad display with crazy specs. The thing would cost as much as the new Mac Pro! LOL.
> 
> I love Apple product but their pricing frankly sucks. The CAD dollar sucks too which doesn't help.


30” ipad! Yes  . It will be useable for Mahler like symphonies


----------



## wcreed51

There are rumors that the Surface Studio 3 will be more modular, and that the monitor WILL be available separately.


----------



## Michael Antrum

dcoscina said:


> I love Apple product but their pricing frankly sucks. The CAD dollar sucks too which doesn't help.



I've just seen how much a Surface Studio 2 costs.......Yikes !


----------



## Denkii

Yeah your best bet is to wait on a new iteration and hope that it will actually be modular so you can just get the monitor.
Studios tend to come with old hardware anyway.


----------



## dcoscina

jonathanparham said:


> Agreed. For my personal use it'll come down to how many more libraries Staffpad comes out with. In my last support tix to Staffpad, I teased Mr. Hearn, that he was using libraries that the public can't buy yet. lol
> 
> 
> 
> Wonderful position your career is in. I've posted things on my FB and have had filmmakers and composers give likes and ask questions. To one composer acquaintance, I said, I see demoing and pitching with this, but you can't write to picture yet because of no image burn-in and no MTC/SMPTE. Yet your quote above shows a bright future imo. If you're writing for live players AND not to picture; Staffpad is like what Pro Tools was for engineering and sound design 25 years ago. You can just take this software and write and give out score and parts. Not to mention the readers on the band stand. I think it's an amazing tool for concert and jazz folks. But there's a lot of other things needed for others. But I'm gladly going to invest in a newer surface and more add ons. The immediacy of my writing can't be ignored.
> 
> 
> Please educate me on Nick Dodd. Mr. Hearn says Dodd was one of the first users and gets up at 4AM everyday too.


Nick Dodd is an orchestrator and composer. He orchestrated a lot of David Arnold seminal scores from the '90s including The Young Americans, Stargate, Last of the Dogmen, Independence Day, Godzilla (1998), and many more.


----------



## dcoscina

Michael Antrum said:


> I've just seen how much a Surface Studio 2 costs.......Yikes !


Just imagine the Apple version. You could buy a BMW with what they would charge! LOL


----------



## Michael Antrum

dcoscina said:


> Just imagine the Apple version. You could buy a BMW with what they would charge! LOL



Yes but the Apple version would be magical......

(and thinner)


(and I say that as a Mac user....)


----------



## Altauria

dcoscina said:


> Just imagine the Apple version. You could buy a BMW with what they would charge! LOL



I think the difference is that Apple would have the _*options*_ to make it super expensive . Price v Price the Studio and iMac are about the same - in fact, at the moment, the iMac is the better deal! The trade off is the Studio's touch screen, though less often updated. Every two years (so far) for the Surface vs the average of a little over one year for the iMac. Maybe poor comparison as the Surface is so young.

Neat, geeky, observation about Apple pricing (sorry, a little off topic...): You are *always *buying the base model. The way it seems to work out, is that you pay the full price of the base, then for every upgrade you make in customization, you basically buy the parts outright, on top of the parts you've bought from the base. I accidentally stumbled on this math when shopping for months for computer options. There are exceptions of course, but as a guideline, it's pretty stable. That's the Apple Tax, for a more concrete way to look at it. Or maybe from their point of view: cost of manufacturing, R&D, design, materials, etc.

It's like buying a house from one of those corporate builders, and then replacing all the lower grade appliances/etc. that came with it - only you can't sell the refrigerator you already bought, the builder keeps it...in fact they never installed it to begin with.


----------



## Denkii

Cannot argue with anyone who tries to defend Apple's pricings.
Not worth it. Some people want to be lost. Like all those religious people.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Michael Antrum

Just seen this....

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...-4k-surface-studio-clone-kickstarter-hands-on


----------



## dcoscina

Michael Antrum said:


> Yes but the Apple version would be magical......
> 
> (and thinner)
> 
> 
> (and I say that as a Mac user....)


Oh don't get me wrong, I only have Apple products for composing. Mac Pro 6,1, Macbook Air i7, Ipad Air2, Air3, 2020 11" Pro, iPhone 7 Plus, various gens of iPods... I'm solidly team Apple but I still can lament their prices for all their stuff.


----------



## JohnG

If you already own a bunch of the libraries -- Spitfire or OT -- can they be ported over for this, or do you have to buy a special edition just for this program?

Thanks -- looks cool.


----------



## dcoscina

JohnG said:


> If you already own a bunch of the libraries -- Spitfire or OT -- can they be ported over for this, or do you have to buy a special edition just for this program?
> 
> Thanks -- looks cool.


No they have been written especially for Staffpad. They behave much differently too compared to their full versions because Staffpad doesn’t have to worry about real-time performance. Yes it’s a little pricey but I’ve got all Berlin add ons and the expressiveness and realism is unreal.


----------



## Denkii

I find the pricing argument weird with regards to what we willingly pay for Kontakt libraries.
For 400 bucks you can get all OT sections for staffpad. Add another 70 for harps and another 70 for piano if you want. That's basically the cost of one Ark. Plus the entry point for staffpad of course which comes at 90.

Yes, you lose the ability to play the instruments live or to tweak them into oblivion with a gazillion mic options and whatnot but then again if that's what you want, you're probably wasting your time looking at notation software anyway?
Or just go with any other software and hook up note performer? Or deep dive into trying to get the Kontakt libraries work with whatever you already use?

I think of it as orchestral tools core for notation. It sounds great and gets the job done. Mostly.
If you want to tweak your ideas further you'll have to go to different software anyway. Same as you would most likely do with a score you put down in Sibelius etc.

In the long run, this could be just as worth it as getting one ark (or *insert any other Kontakt library with a similar price tag here*) if not more.

Helps me staying motivated for working more with notes rather than sequencing only. That's something I always abandoned. I couldn't cope with midi soundbanks but the playback with OT libraries in staffpad is very much instantly gratifying and makes me want to come back to it.


----------



## dcoscina

Denkii said:


> I find the pricing argument weird with regards to what we willingly pay for Kontakt libraries.
> For 400 bucks you can get all OT sections for staffpad. Add another 70 for harps and another 70 for piano if you want. That's basically the cost of one Ark. Plus the entry point for staffpad of course which comes at 90.
> 
> Yes, you lose the ability to play the instruments live or to tweak them into oblivion with a gazillion mic options and whatnot but then again if that's what you want, you're probably wasting your time looking at notation software anyway?
> Or just go with any other software and hook up note performer? Or deep dive into trying to get the Kontakt libraries work with whatever you already use?
> 
> I think of it as orchestral tools core for notation. It sounds great and gets the job done. Mostly.
> If you want to tweak your ideas further you'll have to go to different software anyway. Same as you would most likely do with a score you put down in Sibelius etc.
> 
> In the long run, this could be just as worth it as getting one ark (or *insert any other Kontakt library with a similar price tag here*) if not more.
> 
> Helps me staying motivated for working more with notes rather than sequencing only. That's something I always abandoned. I couldn't cope with midi soundbanks but the playback with OT libraries in staffpad is very much instantly gratifying and makes me want to come back to it.



exactly! I like how you frame this. Yeah buying all of the Berlin stuff ain’t cheap but the orders soon you can attain and the compositional ideas they realize is just next level. DAWs for me can not do this. And I’ve had 3 decades of experience with them.


----------



## Denkii

dcoscina said:


> exactly! I like how you frame this. Yeah buying all of the Berlin stuff ain’t cheap but the orders soon you can attain and the compositional ideas they realize is just next level. DAWs for me can not do this. And I’ve had 3 decades of experience with them.


Like I said, I am probably on the very opposite end of the spectrum. With notation, I struggle to achieve what I would be able to lay down in a DAW in minutes. Yet staffpad is something that makes me want to come back, try harder and get better because of how gratifying it is. Other notation software failed to do that so far.
Speed comes with more practice...at least that's what I hope.

Of course that's highly subjective but it works for me. I just wanted to offer my opinion about the pricing argument because I find it's very double standard compared to some other stuff we are discussing on this forum.

There is clear value for staffpad and it's proprietary libraries and this value can easily be compared to other libraries.
I need an example for a Kontakt String library for 100 bucks that is as versatile and that you can make sound as good as OT strings for staffpad with just as little work to understand that argument. It's not even a question about whether or not it's possible but more about "is it possible with hand written notation and especially with as little tweaking work involved". That's what you pay for imo.


----------



## Jett Hitt

J.T. said:


> On an 11-inch iPad Pro, do you have to scroll a lot as you compose, since you can't see the whole score at once without extreme miniaturization? Is there at least a “focus on staves” function as in Sibelius, or something similar?


It doesn't really matter what size device you have, you are going to be zooming in and out and scrolling no matter what. The nature of StaffPad is that you zoom in to fill in a measure because that makes the handwriting recognition work better. I thought that the screen size would be an obstacle, so I bought a 12.9. After using StaffPad daily for three weeks and seeing how it works, I wouldn't fret about running it on an 11 inch. If there is a trade-off, I would go for RAM and power over screen size.


----------



## jonathanparham

dcoscina said:


> Nick Dodd is an orchestrator and composer. He orchestrated a lot of David Arnold seminal scores from the '90s including The Young Americans, Stargate, Last of the Dogmen, Independence Day, Godzilla (1998), and many more.


Ahhh. Thanks for the education.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Michael Antrum said:


> Just seen this....
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...-4k-surface-studio-clone-kickstarter-hands-on


I'm on a 4k 15.9" yoga FWIW.


----------



## J.T.

Are there any crucial notation limitations I should be aware of?

And which libraries are most suitable for fluent scoring (i.e., Strauss/Ravel type instrumentation approach)?

TIA


----------



## Jett Hitt

J.T. said:


> Are there any crucial notation limitations I should be aware of?


You can always find things it won't do (yet), but there are things Finale can't do, and it's 30+ years old. As a composer writing scores for full romantic orchestra, it meets my needs.


----------



## InLight-Tone

thevisi0nary said:


> Yeah. All of my main machines are windows, but I like the iPad as my portable device. Getting staffpad on the iPad is convenient right now, but prevents me from ever transitioning over to a windows tablet if I want one in the future. Especially if I like it enough to use on desktop.


Be careful with getting an iPad, it may seduce you over to Apple when you experience how slick everything is, it did me!!!


----------



## brandowalk

J.T. said:


> Are there any crucial notation limitations I should be aware of?
> 
> And which libraries are most suitable for fluent scoring (i.e., Strauss/Ravel type instrumentation approach)?
> 
> TIA


I'm enjoying the Spitfire libraries for classical scoring. The room sound is what sells me over the others for this type of scoring. None of them are perfect, and if you get serious about it, you'll likely end up getting more than one library for different styles or flavors. 

I recently purchased the Spitfire Chamber strings and is excellent as well for more focused work.

Check out my long form work below to get a sense of the Spitfire Symphonic Libraries. This piece uses Symphonic Strings, WW, Brass and their Percussion, with some occasional Cine Winds / Brass for some of the 2nd chairs if alternating phrases with the 1st chair. I use the Berlin Harp as well.



Brandon
musicbybrandonwalker.com


----------



## J.T.

@brandowalk 

I appreciate the insight. Nice music, btw.


----------



## Michael Antrum

brandowalk said:


> I'm enjoying the Spitfire libraries for classical scoring. The room sound is what sells me over the others for this type of scoring. None of them are perfect, and if you get serious about it, you'll likely end up getting more than one library for different styles or flavors.
> 
> I recently purchased the Spitfire Chamber strings and is excellent as well for more focused work.
> 
> Check out my long form work below to get a sense of the Spitfire Symphonic Libraries. This piece uses Symphonic Strings, WW, Brass and their Percussion, with some occasional Cine Winds / Brass for some of the 2nd chairs if alternating phrases with the 1st chair. I use the Berlin Harp as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Brandon
> musicbybrandonwalker.com




You know, I've been using Staffpad for some time now, but every single time I get up in the morning and see something like this posted and hit play - my jaw still hits the floor - every single time....

Really nice work BTW, love it.

Now if only we could get more info on the third party libraries......


----------



## nilblo

wcreed51 said:


> The Dell Canvas looks pretty tasty too! I assume You could just plug it into your MAC.


No, you can´t - no drivers for MAC.


----------



## Denkii

Wacom cintiq pro touch and pen should work.
Don't say I didn't warn you about the price though.


----------



## jonathanparham

brandowalk said:


> I'm enjoying the Spitfire libraries for classical scoring. The room sound is what sells me over the others for this type of scoring. None of them are perfect, and if you get serious about it, you'll likely end up getting more than one library for different styles or flavors.
> 
> I recently purchased the Spitfire Chamber strings and is excellent as well for more focused work.
> 
> Check out my long form work below to get a sense of the Spitfire Symphonic Libraries. This piece uses Symphonic Strings, WW, Brass and their Percussion, with some occasional Cine Winds / Brass for some of the 2nd chairs if alternating phrases with the 1st chair. I use the Berlin Harp as well.


Really enjoyed that Brandon and you are showcasing the Sprifire libraries well. I'm hearing on my tablet the dynamic range the samples have. Your piece tells me Staffpad LTD needs some more user demos so musicians can see the potential!

Can you give the specs on the device you're using? What processor, ram, screen capture software etc?

Thanks again for the music


----------



## J.T.

Does StaffPad export and/or import musicXML, and if so, has anyone done any back and forth with Sibelius?


----------



## jadi

J.T. said:


> Does StaffPad export and/or import musicXML, and if so, has anyone done any back and forth with Sibelius?



Hello, I have experience with Logic, that is working but you stil need to tidy up. Also when you got complicated score writing (mu;tiple voices in one bar), it doesn’t work.
For Sibelius, Ihave seen same issues, it works but needs work


----------



## Jett Hitt

J.T. said:


> Does StaffPad export and/or import musicXML, and if so, has anyone done any back and forth with Sibelius?


I have done xml import from Finale, and it was surprisingly accurate. There’s always clean up, but it was pretty decent.


----------



## Denkii

scoredfilms said:


> I bought these and a couple other small libraries:
> 
> Spitfire Woodwinds
> Primary: Spitfire Brass
> Hrn/Trmp 3 & 4: Cinebrass
> Berlin Strings
> Spitfire Chamber Strings
> Cinepercussion
> Edit: I'll only say here that if I could go back, I think Spitfire Symphonic would have been a better choice than Berlin & SF Chamber. In my url, I explain why.


Would that edit still stand today?
You prefer SSS over Berlin Strings?
Can you give more detail about why exactly?
Also I would be interested in your opinion about the amount of individual tweaking that needs to go into SSS vs. Berlin Strings from your experience - if it's worth mentioning.


----------



## dcoscina

Denkii said:


> Would that edit still stand today?
> You prefer SSS over Berlin Strings?
> Can you give more detail about why exactly?
> Also I would be interested in your opinion about the amount of individual tweaking that needs to go into SSS vs. Berlin Strings from your experience - if it's worth mentioning.


I barely use Spitfire Strings. Too sluggish


----------



## Jett Hitt

dcoscina said:


> I barely use Spitfire Strings. Too sluggish


I have Berlin and SSS. The latter is like an 800 lb gorilla: too big, too powerful. The only thing I really like about it compared to Berlin is the flautando.


----------



## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> I have Berlin and SSS. The latter is like an 800 lb gorilla: too big, too powerful. The only thing I really like about it compared to Berlin is the flautando.


I couldn’t have said it better!


----------



## brandowalk

Michael Antrum said:


> You know, I've been using Staffpad for some time now, but every single time I get up in the morning and see something like this posted and hit play - my jaw still hits the floor - every single time....
> 
> Really nice work BTW, love it.
> 
> Now if only we could get more info on the third party libraries......


Thank you Michael. Yeah, sometimes I take a step back and can't believe all this is coming from an iPad!

Yes, more details on articulations and how to trigger them would be awesome, especially since there are differences between the libraries, and sometimes even within a library itself. I suggested something like a "one-sheet" reference for this but didn't get a response on it. David did comment however, that "some of the new app features coming will be relevant to the way the libraries behave, and it'll open up additional phrasings and articulations and so on." So... my guess is that they are prioritizing these developments over documentation at this time.


----------



## brandowalk

jonathanparham said:


> Really enjoyed that Brandon and you are showcasing the Sprifire libraries well. I'm hearing on my tablet the dynamic range the samples have. Your piece tells me Staffpad LTD needs some more user demos so musicians can see the potential!
> 
> Can you give the specs on the device you're using? What processor, ram, screen capture software etc?
> 
> Thanks again for the music


Thanks Jonathan! The demos and walkthroughs really do help with deciding what libraries to purchase. 

I am using a 12.9" iPad Pro- 2nd gen (4GB ram??). The video capture is done through the iOS control centre (built into the iPad). For these videos, I export the stems (actually individual tracks) to ProTools to do some minor level changes (listening on my studio monitors vs the headphones I usually use), add some ambience/reverb, and perform some basic mastering. I'm using the basic iMovie software to combine it all.


----------



## brandowalk

Denkii said:


> Would that edit still stand today?
> You prefer SSS over Berlin Strings?
> Can you give more detail about why exactly?
> Also I would be interested in your opinion about the amount of individual tweaking that needs to go into SSS vs. Berlin Strings from your experience - if it's worth mentioning.


SSS is lush - and I like that for much of what I write. I don't have Berlin strings, but from the demos, to me it seems a closer comparison to SCS in terms of the writing function. Maybe someone here that has both SCS and Berlin strings can comment how they are different/same in more detail.


----------



## J.T.

brandowalk said:


> Maybe someone here that has both SCS and Berlin strings can comment how they are different/same in more detail.



That'd be great. I need instruments that can move.


----------



## Gingerbread

For those of us working with StaffPad on tablets like the iPad, I'm having a lot of ergonomic trouble. Hunching over it for hours is causing a lot of upper back/neck pain. Are you guys dealing with that, and if so, has anyone found a good solution?


----------



## Jett Hitt

Gingerbread said:


> For those of us working with StaffPad on tablets like the iPad, I'm having a lot of ergonomic trouble. Hunching over it for hours is causing a lot of upper back/neck pain. Are you guys dealing with that, and if so, has anyone found a good solution?


I think that you just have to vary your workflow and pick your battles strategically. I usually sit back in my office chair with my feet up and write on my lap. But occasionally I walk around to the side of my piano and stand there and write on top of the piano. Sometimes I sit at the piano and write on the music stand. Most importantly, I recognize when there is a more efficient way to do something. For example, if I am working on a particularly busy piano part, I turn to my computer and play it into Finale, export the XML, and airdrop it to my iPad. StaffPad is an amazing tool, but the inability to enter notes any way except by writing is a limitation that sometimes needs to be circumvented.


----------



## gyprock

Gingerbread said:


> For those of us working with StaffPad on tablets like the iPad, I'm having a lot of ergonomic trouble. Hunching over it for hours is causing a lot of upper back/neck pain. Are you guys dealing with that, and if so, has anyone found a good solution?


For the last 8 months or so I've been doing a lot of composing with Dorico where my piano keyboard was on a sliding smaller table under my main table. This scenario requires you to lean forward and stretch your arms to reach the computer keyboard. This is definitely not good for posture. I can't be 100% sure, but I think I developed mild costochondritis from this. Stretching to relieve it made it worse because I think I overdid it. Recently I moved the piano keyboard onto my main table and the computer keyboard in front so I don't have to lean over. This has helped.

So the summary is, be careful with posture, particularly with a tablet that just lends itself to bad postural habits. Check out this channel for great exercises. She also has a $10 iphone app that is good. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJRSiUpCE2gGHrTcOrKhLg/featured


----------



## Michael Antrum

Gingerbread said:


> For those of us working with StaffPad on tablets like the iPad, I'm having a lot of ergonomic trouble. Hunching over it for hours is causing a lot of upper back/neck pain. Are you guys dealing with that, and if so, has anyone found a good solution?



When using my iPad on a desk I have one of those stands with variable angles so I can write comfortably. But the most comfortable place for me to write is an an armchair with lovely big flat armrests for the iPad.

One thing I did have a problem with previously was glasses (if you're unfortunate enough to need to wear them). I, now the wrong side of 50, sadly do. Anyway, I found I was getting back strain when working at my desk. I eventually figured out my normal glasses made my sight the clearest a bit too close to the screen, and I was unconsciously always leaning forward a bit - which after an hour or two started to get uncomfortable. So I got a pair that focussed another 18 inches further out and that problem has now completely gone.

But the best method of all, I find, is to have a masseuse on hand to give you a rub down after every half hour of strenuous composition, though I do appreciate that this may not always be practical.


----------



## PaulieDC

Michael Antrum said:


> But the best method of all, I find, is to have a masseuse on hand to give you a rub down after every half hour of strenuous composition, though I do appreciate that this may not always be practical.


I'm on your side of the 50 fence and that sounds like a mandatory maneuver, masseuse-on-hand. Many people might think that's expensive (and it is), but not to any of us. We buy sound libraries. We've spent more on those than the cost of a live-in physical therapist.

Seriously, you described what I go through, and that's the problem, I use 1.25 readers for my PC and 2.0 to actually read and write on the iPad Pro. Switch to the 1.25s sets me back, i.e. more upright. Instant relief, so thank you!

OK, who's the moderator in this section?? We need this part moved to the Geriatric Composing Maniacs Forum. The top header banner needs to be a picture of the Geritol banner behind Lawrence Welk's band when it was still in B&W. (45 and younger are going "What? Who?")

Man, totally OT, my apologies...


----------



## brandowalk

Some of the libraries received updates last night. From what I can tell, updates for Berlin Harps, Spitfire Chamber Strings, Spitfire Brass, Spitfire Woodwinds. 

It’s great that they are continually updating and improving these libraries! I encourage users to report issues found with articulations, etc. StaffPad is quite responsive in fixing them.


----------



## dcoscina

brandowalk said:


> SSS is lush - and I like that for much of what I write. I don't have Berlin strings, but from the demos, to me it seems a closer comparison to SCS in terms of the writing function. Maybe someone here that has both SCS and Berlin strings can comment how they are different/same in more detail.


I have both. I rarely if ever use SSS though I bought them because I thought I needed more size to my strings. In almost all cases. Berlin is fine. It's more expressive and handles things like glides and runs far better than SSS. For long sustained tones, yeah, SSS is nice but not any better than Berlin in my opinion. I've used Berlin for both concert pieces and music that is more film score style.


----------



## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> I think that you just have to vary your workflow and pick your battles strategically. I usually sit back in my office chair with my feet up and write on my lap. But occasionally I walk around to the side of my piano and stand there and write on top of the piano. Sometimes I sit at the piano and write on the music stand. Most importantly, I recognize when there is a more efficient way to do something. For example, if I am working on a particularly busy piano part, I turn to my computer and play it into Finale, export the XML, and airdrop it to my iPad. StaffPad is an amazing tool, but the inability to enter notes any way except by writing is a limitation that sometimes needs to be circumvented.


perhaps STaffpad will add a virtual piano like Notion for note entry. I know it would move it away from its original concept but David told me short and long term plans for the app. Just to be clear, he never mentioned the addition of keyboard entry or a virtual piano. I'm just throwing out ideas


----------



## Jett Hitt

dcoscina said:


> perhaps STaffpad will add a virtual piano like Notion for note entry. I know it would move it away from its original concept but David told me short and long term plans for the app. Just to be clear, he never mentioned the addition of keyboard entry or a virtual piano. I'm just throwing out ideas


I have suggested it to him. There are a few bluetooth keyboards out there that would suffice. I now greatly appreciate the pencil and the abilty to input with it, and truth be told, if I had had MIDI entry from the get-go, I may not have learned to enter notes nearly as proficiently with the pen. On the other hand, when you have 30-40 notes in a measure of a piano part, switching to MIDI entry is the only sensible thing to do.


----------



## prodigalson

Does anyone know how to delete 3rd party libraries? I’d like to manage my storage and would like to temporarily remove some of my purchases but cant seem to find the option. 

Anyone know how to do this?


----------



## prodigalson

Never mind. Found it!


----------



## J.T.

I heard some music made with Staffpad using Spitfire recently, and although the writing was really well done, the slurred figures were not convincing. They were only at a moderate pacing, but had a bit of a dip at the transitions. Does the Staffpad version of Berlin Strings yield a better result?


----------



## brandowalk

dcoscina said:


> I have both. I rarely if ever use SSS though I bought them because I thought I needed more size to my strings. In almost all cases. Berlin is fine. It's more expressive and handles things like glides and runs far better than SSS. For long sustained tones, yeah, SSS is nice but not any better than Berlin in my opinion. I've used Berlin for both concert pieces and music that is more film score style.


was curious if you could compare Spitfire Chamber Strings to Berlin Strings?


----------



## Jett Hitt

J.T. said:


> I heard some music made with Staffpad using Spitfire recently, and although the writing was really well done, the slurred figures were not convincing. They were only at a moderate pacing, but had a bit of a dip at the transitions. Does the Staffpad version of Berlin Strings yield a better result?


I think so.


----------



## jonathanparham

J.T. said:


> I heard some music made with Staffpad using Spitfire recently, and although the writing was really well done, the slurred figures were not convincing. They were only at a moderate pacing, but had a bit of a dip at the transitions. Does the Staffpad version of Berlin Strings yield a better result?


Saw your post in the other thread and this one. Is this helpful?


----------



## J.T.

Thanks for the reply. I can't play the file. And there is a diagonal line through the play button.


----------



## jonathanparham

J.T. said:


> Thanks for the reply. I can't play the file. And there is a diagonal line through the play button.


my bad. I'll check. I created the file on my Microsoft surface and it launches into another window and plays. It also seems to play on my wife's old MacBook pro in chrome. Maybe some other users could comment as I'm not the savviest online person.


----------



## aria250m

@jonathanparham

Works when I click on it. I can see the score and hear it.


----------



## Nickie Fønshauge

Doesn't work on iPad. As J.T. mentioned, you just get a crossed-over play button.


----------



## Saxer

Nickie Fønshauge said:


> Doesn't work on iPad. As J.T. mentioned, you just get a crossed-over play button.


Hold your finger tipp on it and select download. Works on iPad here.


----------



## jonathanparham

Thanks for the feedback. want to be helpful and not a distraction. Maybe it's time for Mr Mike to spin off this thread?


----------



## J.T.

jonathanparham said:


> Thanks for the feedback. want to be helpful and not a distraction.



I was able to download it this morning per the tip provided by Saxer. Yes, that's a smoother legato than the other one I had heard. Performance nuances are more important to me than lush ambience, so long as the sound is still good.

Thank you for posting that.


----------



## J.T.

As there are so many things musicians do that do not have to be notated, is there a way to make some articulations invisible while having them still play?

It would also be nice to be able to elongate or compress certain very small parts of the tempo or even just a beat like a conductor or performer would automatically do, or add an invisible duration to individual notes that plays instead of the visible one. Regular beats kill a lot of music, and choosing one of several degrees of "Rubato" from a playback settings menu or whatever doesn't cut it, since performance nuances are conscious decisions.

Built in common performance and phrasing routines would help a lot. Perhaps Staffpad does something like this already?


----------



## thevisi0nary

Does anyone have a list of the included instruments?


----------



## prodigalson

J.T. said:


> As there are so many things musicians do that do not have to be notated, is there a way to make some articulations invisible while having them still play?
> 
> It would also be nice to be able to elongate or compress certain very small parts of the tempo or even just a beat like a conductor or performer would automatically do, or add an invisible duration to individual notes that plays instead of the visible one. Regular beats kill a lot of music, and choosing one of several degrees of "Rubato" from a playback settings menu or whatever doesn't cut it, since performance nuances are conscious decisions.
> 
> Built in common performance and phrasing routines would help a lot. Perhaps Staffpad does something like this already?



you can alter the tempo track.


----------



## brandowalk

I recently purchased Spitfire Chamber Strings and had a chance to use it to orchestrate a piano piece I wrote many years ago. I thought it worked well for a smaller section. I combined a hint of SSS in some of the grander sections but essentially what you hear is SCS for the strings. Hope I’m not posting too many pieces here but I haven’t heard too many examples of SCS so I thought I would share.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

brandowalk said:


> I recently purchased Spitfire Chamber Strings and had a chance to use it to orchestrate a piano piece I wrote many years ago. I thought it worked well for a smaller section. I combined a hint of SSS in some of the grander sections but essentially what you hear is SCS for the strings. Hope I’m not posting too many pieces here but I haven’t heard too many examples of SCS so I thought I would share.



Nicely done. I enjoyed listening to this!


----------



## Jett Hitt

brandowalk said:


> I recently purchased Spitfire Chamber Strings and had a chance to use it to orchestrate a piano piece I wrote many years ago. I thought it worked well for a smaller section. I combined a hint of SSS in some of the grander sections but essentially what you hear is SCS for the strings. Hope I’m not posting too many pieces here but I haven’t heard too many examples of SCS so I thought I would share.



Pretty nice! Thanks for sharing. SCS worked well for this.


----------



## Stiltzkin

Has anyone tried mocking up something like Anakin's Theme from episode 1 with staff pad? Anyone willing to perhaps try it as I'm quite interested in how it compares to dorico...


----------



## dcoscina

Stiltzkin said:


> Has anyone tried mocking up something like Anakin's Theme from episode 1 with staff pad? Anyone willing to perhaps try it as I'm quite interested in how it compares to dorico...


I'm pretty certain SP will provide more realistic sound compared to Dorico whether you are using NotePerformer or its core library. That's its wheelhouse


----------



## Stiltzkin

dcoscina said:


> I'm pretty certain SP will provide more realistic sound compared to Dorico whether you are using NotePerformer or its core library. That's its wheelhouse



No I use samples with the new expression maps, just wondering how they compare to SPs way of handling the samples.


----------



## dcoscina

Stiltzkin said:


> No I use samples with the new expression maps, just wondering how they compare to SPs way of handling the samples.


Staffpad's expansion libraries were specifically programmed to work with SP's engine and playback. I find it even more expressive than the same libraries I own on Kontakt to be honest.


----------



## Stiltzkin

dcoscina said:


> Staffpad's expansion libraries were specifically programmed to work with SP's engine and playback. I find it even more expressive than the same libraries I own on Kontakt to be honest.



I understand that, I've looked in SP a little but don't own it, I'm really just more interested in how the interpretation of SP is compared to dorico, since dorico does also send humanization and playback via CC and velocity - I'll try just writing out some of their demos and see how that compares instead.


----------



## brandowalk

Stiltzkin said:


> Has anyone tried mocking up something like Anakin's Theme from episode 1 with staff pad? Anyone willing to perhaps try it as I'm quite interested in how it compares to dorico...


If you or someone can send the score and a XML file of it I can give it a try.


----------



## Stiltzkin

brandowalk said:


> If you or someone can send the score and a XML file of it I can give it a try.


PMd


----------



## RogiervG

I am thinking of using this with the extensions. one thing.
however, it's that quite a few examples are very roomy sounding. Sometimes too roomy. Is there like with the vst's a way of using a more closer/chamber like room/distance possible?
E.g. if i would like to mix it with vocals or e.g. a drumkit or guitars.. or even some real strings or brass sections for e.g. a musical/theater song.
it's not very handy it's too roomy.

Also, how good is the export to audio quality? or stems for that matter...
are they as good as exporting from a daw vst version export? (without mastering and post stuff, just the raw thing)


----------



## dcoscina

RogiervG said:


> I am thinking of using this with the extensions. one thing.
> however, it's that quite a few examples are very roomy sounding. Sometimes too roomy. Is there like with the vst's a way of using a more closer/chamber like room/distance possible?
> E.g. if i would like to mix it with vocals or e.g. a drumkit or guitars.. or even some real strings or brass sections for e.g. a musical/theater song.
> it's not very handy it's too roomy.
> 
> Also, how good is the export to audio quality? or stems for that matter...
> are they as good as exporting from a daw vst version export? (without mastering and post stuff, just the raw thing)


There is some additional reverb added to each instrument track that you can turn down or off it you'd like. But because SP uses the Room mics (I think the Mains from most libraries) so there will always be a bit of ambience in there...


----------



## Rory

There have been many positive comments in this thread about StaffPad's playback. If I may, three questions. How do StaffPad's base instrument sounds compare with the add-on instrument packs? Secondly, and I have in mind an iPad Pro, are people talking about playback via the iPad's internal preamp or are they playing back with their iPad connected to an audio interface? Finally, I'd appreciate advice on which of the add-on piano packs is best suited for playback of classical music and jazz compositions. As I understand it, there are currently two main piano libraries, Orchestral Tools's _Orchestral Grands_ and CineSamples's _CinePiano_. If anyone has thoughts on it, I'm also kind of interested in the StaffPad version of Spitfire Audio's _Union Chapel Organ_.

Thanks

P.S. For playback, I'm thinking about connecting my iPad Pro to a compact audio interface (Sound Devices MixPre or Sonosax M2D2) and powering the interface with a battery (Sony L-mount or Powerstation PD XL power bank).


----------



## prodigalson

Rory said:


> P.S. For playback, I'm thinking about connecting my iPad Pro to a compact audio interface (Sound Devices MixPre or Sonosax M2D2) and powering the interface with a Sony L-mount battery or a compact USB-C power bank for mobile devices (Powerstation PD XL).



No need for all that. Just plug your earphones into your iPad. Personally, I just use my AirPods pro.


----------



## jonathanparham

Rory said:


> There have been many positive comments in this thread about StaffPad's playback. If I may, three questions. How do StaffPad's base instrument sounds compare with the add-on instrument packs?
> P.S. For playback, I'm thinking about connecting my iPad Pro to a compact audio interface (Sound Devices MixPre or Sonosax M2D2) and powering the interface with a battery (Sony L-mount or Powerstation PD XL power bank).


The base instruments are basic. IMO I wouldn't present them to a client BUT for my own writing they're decent. I purchased some of the Berlin Libraries and it's Night and Day. Kinda hard to go back to stock strings after hearing Berlin string runs. The Berlin and other add ons I feel comfortable demoing and pitching a client with. Maybe not final but a 'am in the ball park kinda thing.'

Regarding playback it depends on what you mean. I notice your sonosax and Sound Device gear which I equate with video and film work. As @prodigalson mentions, 'it don't take all that" but to each his own.


----------



## Rory

prodigalson said:


> No need for all that. Just plug your earphones into your iPad. Personally, I just use my AirPods pro.



Thanks, I can do either and am curious about what others are doing. So you're happy with the playback using your iPad preamp and AirPods Pro via Bluetooth. Are you using any of the add-on instrument packs?


----------



## Rory

jonathanparham said:


> Regarding playback it depends on what you mean. I notice your sonosax and Sound Device gear which I equate with video and film work. As @prodigalson mentions, 'it don't take all that" but to each his own.



Thanks for your comment on the base sounds vs add-ons. Re playback, those are just audio interfaces that I happen to have, and mentioned to make it clearer what I'm talking about. Some here no doubt have RME, Audient, etc. interfaces. I gather that you are also listening directly from your iPad, presumably via Bluetooth earbuds or headphones. Good to learn that you are impressed with the sound of the StaffPad versions of the Orchestral Tools instrument packs without using an interface.


----------



## Rory

Thanks to @prodigalson and @jonathanparham for their replies to my questions about StaffPad playback and the core vs add-on libraries. That leaves this question, input appreciated:

"Finally, I'd appreciate advice on which of the add-on piano packs is best suited for playback of classical music and jazz compositions. As I understand it, there are currently two main piano libraries, Orchestral Tools's _Orchestral Grands_ and CineSamples's _CinePiano_, each US$70. If anyone has thoughts on it, I'm also kind of interested in the StaffPad version of Spitfire Audio's _Union Chapel Organ _($30)."​


----------



## Jett Hitt

Rory said:


> Thanks to @prodigalson and @jonathanparham for their replies to my questions about StaffPad playback and the core vs add-on libraries. That leaves this question, input appreciated:
> 
> "Finally, I'd appreciate advice on which of the add-on piano packs is best suited for playback of classical music and jazz compositions. As I understand it, there are currently two main piano libraries, Orchestral Tools's _Orchestral Grands_ and CineSamples's _CinePiano_, each US$70. If anyone has thoughts on it, I'm also kind of interested in the StaffPad version of Spitfire Audio's _Union Chapel Organ _($30)."​


I am using the Berlin Piano, and I find it pretty decent. I don't know how it compares with the Cinesamples piano. No one seems to post examples using that piano, which might tell you something. In general, the Berlin libraries have all made me pretty happy. Someone went the extra mile to make these libraries really good for StaffPad. For right now, I think that they are the cream of the crop. They are the most realistic. On the other hand, if you are looking for that big bombastic Hollywood sound, maybe Cinsesamples would be the ticket. For me as a purely classical orchestral composer, Berlin has been awesome. I am currently using the piano in a piano concerto.


----------



## brandowalk

Rory said:


> How do StaffPad's base instrument sounds compare with the add-on instrument packs?



Rory - The base sounds are actually quite decent, and certainly good enough for writing a good orchestral sketch. As mentioned earlier, you probably wouldn't deliver the stock sounds to a client. I found the base sounds particularly telling in the short samples in the strings, with likely 1 or very few round-robbins.

I have posted both versions of a piece on YouTube: stock sounds vs premium libraries if you are interested in hearing a pretty accurate comparison (both versions were tweaked for the specific libraries). 

Brandon


----------



## brandowalk

Stiltzkin said:


> Has anyone tried mocking up something like Anakin's Theme from episode 1 with staff pad? Anyone willing to perhaps try it as I'm quite interested in how it compares to dorico...


Stiltzkin - as requested.  Here is a mockup sample of Anakin's Theme using StaffPad. I tried to mimic the original soundtrack "sound" as possible.

This output is straight out of StaffPad as an MP3. If I wanted to spend more time on it to match the original, I might play with the tempos a bit more. I would also export to DAW, push with some of the dynamics and tweak the EQ to soften up things overall. You might post the Dorico version here as well for comparison.


----------



## Saxer

Sounds fantastic!


----------



## wcreed51

I'm curious how people are working with Berlin WW, as there are no ensemble patches. Are you adding individual staffs for each player?


----------



## MisteR

brandowalk said:


> Stiltzkin - as requested.  Here is a mockup sample of Anakin's Theme using StaffPad. I tried to mimic the original soundtrack "sound" as possible.
> 
> This output is straight out of StaffPad as an MP3. If I wanted to spend more time on it to match the original, I might play with the tempos a bit more. I would also export to DAW, push with some of the dynamics and tweak the EQ to soften up things overall. You might post the Dorico version here as well for comparison.


Sounds good. Which libraries did you use?


----------



## dcoscina

wcreed51 said:


> I'm curious how people are working with Berlin WW, as there are no ensemble patches. Are you adding individual staffs for each player?


yup just like one would in a concert score intended to be performed.


----------



## Rory

I’m using Sibelius but I’m going to try to switch to StaffPad. I’m attracted to the idea of writing music with a pen rather than a keyboard, and @brandowalk’s performance videos and comments show that playback is quite good.

I’ve decided to set aside my one concern, which is how competitive StaffPad is in the market/whether it has a healthy future. On an iPad, StaffPad is an expensive proposition: US$130 for an Apple Pencil and $90 for the app. Were it not for the fact that I already use an Apple Pencil, I’m not sure that I would purchase one just to use StaffPad. The third party sample libraries are optional, but the allure is there and the main offerings are $70 each. StaffPad does not offer discounts to students or educators, which I think is short-sighted.

There are just much cheaper ways to write music on an iPad. Notion, at $15, is 1/6th the cost, at least for the base app. If you’re within Wi-Fi range of a Mac, one can use AirPlay and an iPad to work in Sibelius/Finale, or indeed in Logic’s Score Editor/Piano Roll or equivalent in another DAW. We may not be far from the day when notation functionality is built into Logic Remote.

I’ve decided to purchase StaffPad, but I do wonder whether this app is mostly attractive to people who are either reasonably well-off or successful commercial composers who are satisfied that they can make it pay financially.


----------



## dcoscina

Rory said:


> I’m using Sibelius but I’m going to try to switch to StaffPad. I’m attracted to the idea of writing music with a pen rather than a keyboard, and @brandowalk’s performance videos and comments show that playback is quite good.
> 
> I’ve decided to set aside my one concern, which is how competitive StaffPad is in the market/whether it will has a healthy future. On an iPad, StaffPad is an expensive proposition: US$130 for an Apple Pencil and $90 for the app. Were it not for the fact that I already use an Apple Pencil, I’m not sure that I would purchase one just to use StaffPad. The third party sample libraries are optional, but the allure is there and the main offerings are $70 each. StaffPad does not offer discounts to students or educators, which I think is short-sighted.
> 
> There are just much cheaper ways to write music on an iPad. Notion, at $15, is 1/6th the cost, at least for the base app. If you’re within Wi-Fi range of a Mac, one can use AirPlay and an iPad to work in Sibelius/Finale, or indeed in Logic’s Score Editor/Piano Roll or equivalent in another DAW. We may not be far from the day when notation functionality is built into Logic Remote.
> 
> I’ve decided to purchase StaffPad, but I do wonder whether this app is mostly attractive to people who are either reasonably well-off or successful as commercial composers and satisfied that they can make it pay financially.


These are all good points to consider. I used Notion iOS for years. The playback frankly is horrid however, unless you are simply looking for a basic timbral reference but even then, it's not really accurate. Staffpad has been around since 2015 (debuted for the Surface) and with the advent of iOS now, I think it's only got upwards and onwards in its sights. 

Just a quick point. In Ontario Canada, the expansion libraries are $155 taxes in, so when people lament the $70 cost, I sort of roll my eyes because it's literally half what I have to pay for these sounds. You don't have to be rich to afford these sounds but financially solvent yeah. If you are a student or someone who prefers to spend their monies on plug ins for your DAW, then of course there's never enough to go around. 

Starting with the core sound library isn't bad. It's still better than Notion. The expression however in Berlin for me is night and day. Way better. And rendering my audio files with that kind of realistic quality is terrific. I don't have to export into my DAW and work on stuff like I did with Notion. It's just done! 

But I am a big fan and I'm willing to look past its shortcomings for now. Or I adapt my methodology. Everyone has to make their own minds up about cost vs performance, budgets, whether they think the sounds are that good or whether the interface works for them.


----------



## RogiervG

Will a wacom drawing tablet, aka pen display, hooked to a windows 10 machine work? e.g. a cintiq
Or does it only work on surface and ipads? (the requirements are not clear enough. They mention windows 10 computer and an active pen device.. so.. not surface per se. )


----------



## dcoscina

RogiervG said:


> Will a wacom drawing tablet, aka pen display, hooked to a windows 10 machine work? e.g. a cintiq
> Or only surface and ipads? (the requirements are not that clear enough..imho)


I do believe it will but checked with someone who is on Windows for sure. 









StaffPad® - Make beautiful music


StaffPad is a music notation and composition app designed for handwriting music recognition, touch editing, amazing playback, automatic score layout and realtime parts over WiFi. Available in the App Store for iPad and iPadOS, and the Windows Store for Windows 10.




www.staffpad.net


----------



## Rory

RogiervG said:


> Will a wacom drawing tablet, aka pen display, hooked to a windows 10 machine work? e.g. a cintiq
> Or does it only work on surface and ipads? (the requirements are not clear enough. They mention windows 10 computer and an active pen device.. so.. not surface per se. )



If you do a search limited to this thread for the word “Wacom”, you’ll find that a number of posts talk about Wacom tablets and that at least a couple of people say that they are using one with Windows and StaffPad.


----------



## RogiervG

Rory said:


> If you do a search limited to this thread for the word “Wacom”, you’ll find at least a couple of posts from people saying that they are using one with Windows and StaffPad.


Yes, i found them too.. but wacom has many products. And i wonder if the cintiq series work, and cannot find confirmation about it from staffpad, nor videos proving it working properly.


----------



## Dave Connor

Question: How many working on smaller surfaces such as the various IPads (which is most is seems) would prefer a much larger screen such as the surface studio 32? To me that is the only proper orientation to the writing/scoring process: being able see everything at once and go straight to a flute after finishing a bass idea for example. Are you deliberately staying in the group you’re composing in or do you toggle the screen and jump from bottom to top as per my example? Is that done quickly and easily?

Thanks.


----------



## Progfather

Anyone able to tell me why Staffpad is convinced I need to purchase libraries that I have already purchased before? Already tried going to the store and clicked "Restore Purchases", but that did nothing. I am not paying $200 again for Berlin Strings and Berlin Woodwinds. I swear, all I do is fight this app, I rarely ever create anything half the time, between the technical issues and shit like this. If it's Microsoft related, I'll abandon this pile of shit Surface Pro 7 and jump to the iPad, but this is utterly ridiculous.


----------



## Saxer

Just buy it again. If you purchase something again in the AppStore with the same Apple ID they don't charge it off twice. I had to do that with two of the libraries too.


----------



## Rory

Dave Connor said:


> Question: How many working on smaller surfaces such as the various IPads (which is most is seems) would prefer a much larger screen such as the surface studio 32? To me that is the only proper orientation to the writing/scoring process: being able see everything at once and go straight to a flute after finishing a bass idea for example. Are you deliberately staying in the group you’re composing in or do you toggle the screen and jump from bottom to top as per my example? Is that done quickly and easily?
> 
> Thanks.



When you’re in a score, using your thumb and index finger to zoom out or in controls how much of the score you see. Standard iPad screen behaviour.

I purchased the app earlier today and have tried it on 10.5” and 12.9” iPads. The big screen is nice, but also heavier and obviously less compact. Which is “better” comes down to personal preference and what you’re doing.


----------



## brandowalk

I deleted my post / thoughts on piano yesterday. After trying the Berlin intimate piano in a different context today, it could work fine in solo or combo setting. The demo posted wasn’t doing it justice for all that it can do. I can post a sample of it sometime soon.

So CinePiano and Berlin are both versatile I would say for solo or orchestra. Still, I think my preference would be Berlin for orchestra, and Cine for solo.


----------



## Rory

Rory said:


> I’m using Sibelius but I’m going to try to switch to StaffPad. I’m attracted to the idea of writing music with a pen rather than a keyboard, and @brandowalk’s performance videos and comments show that playback is quite good.
> 
> I’ve decided to set aside my one concern, which is how competitive StaffPad is in the market/whether it has a healthy future. On an iPad, StaffPad is an expensive proposition: US$130 for an Apple Pencil and $90 for the app. Were it not for the fact that I already use an Apple Pencil, I’m not sure that I would purchase one just to use StaffPad. The third party sample libraries are optional, but the allure is there and the main offerings are $70 each. StaffPad does not offer discounts to students or educators, which I think is short-sighted.
> 
> There are just much cheaper ways to write music on an iPad. Notion, at $15, is 1/6th the cost, at least for the base app. If you’re within Wi-Fi range of a Mac, one can use AirPlay and an iPad to work in Sibelius/Finale, or indeed in Logic’s Score Editor/Piano Roll or equivalent in another DAW. We may not be far from the day when notation functionality is built into Logic Remote.
> 
> I’ve decided to purchase StaffPad, but I do wonder whether this app is mostly attractive to people who are either reasonably well-off or successful commercial composers who are satisfied that they can make it pay financially.



Further to my earlier post (quoted above), I’ve now had StaffPad for a few hours and I’m completely sold.

I love the fact that I‘m not tied to a computer screen and can use a “pencil” rather than a keyboard.

Having watched StaffPad’s tutorial videos on YouTube, I‘m having no difficulty with notation entry. Initially, the app wasn’t responding to taps to turn pencil entries into engraved entries, or to my attempts at erasing, but a bit more pressure on my Apple Pencil fixed that problem immediately. There‘s a bit of a learning curve, but so far I think that the app is pretty straightforward. There‘s also a fairly detailed manual: https://staffpad.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

I need to think carefully about the “Store”. With few exceptions, the add-on libraries are US$100 or $70 each. This could add up fast, and there are no “bundles”. There‘s one free add-on, a Toy Glockenspiel  The store has a somewhat unfinished quality. In a number of cases, demos are “to come”. Some libraries, but not all, have walkthrough videos. Walkthroughs are available for the standard, non-StaffPad versions of the libraries, but note that the StaffPad libraries are stripped-down versions.

On playback, I have a small portable audio interface that can run off a battery. I‘m going to plug my iPad into to see what happens when I bypass the iPad’s internal preamp and listen with good wired headphones rather than with BlueTooth devices (Bose wireless headphones or AirPods Pro earbuds). The interface is small enough that it’s easy to carry around, and it _should_ have a positive effect on sound quality, which in any event is acceptable.


----------



## Rory

brandowalk said:


> I deleted my post / thoughts on piano yesterday. After trying the Berlin intimate piano in a different context today, it could work fine in solo or combo setting. The demo posted wasn’t doing it justice for all that it can do. I can post a sample of it sometime soon.
> 
> So CinePiano and Berlin are both versatile I would say for solo or orchestra. Still, I think my preference would be Berlin for orchestra, and Cine for solo.



Thanks very much. Given that I’ve now purchased the app, this is a real rather than theoretical decision


----------



## MSutherlandComp

Truth be told, I've had no technical issues with the app thus far. My primary qualm has been the lack of instrument variety available (though I'm sure it will get taken care of eventually). I use a lot of Steel String Guitars in my soundtrack arrangements, and would love to be able to hear that when I'm writing. Using the Nylon String Guitar as a holdover, for now ...


----------



## Rory

MSutherlandComp said:


> Truth be told, I've had no technical issues with the app thus far. My primary qualm has been the lack of instrument variety available (though I'm sure it will get taken care of eventually). I use a lot of Steel String Guitars in my soundtrack arrangements, and would love to be able to hear that when I'm writing. Using the Nylon String Guitar as a holdover, for now ...



The guitar library is described as volume 1, so maybe volume 2 will have a steel string guitar. Volume 1 is one of the cases where the demo is “coming soon”. At US$10 the price is right. What do you think of it?


----------



## prodigalson

Dave Connor said:


> Question: How many working on smaller surfaces such as the various IPads (which is most is seems) would prefer a much larger screen such as the surface studio 32? To me that is the only proper orientation to the writing/scoring process: being able see everything at once and go straight to a flute after finishing a bass idea for example. Are you deliberately staying in the group you’re composing in or do you toggle the screen and jump from bottom to top as per my example? Is that done quickly and easily?
> 
> Thanks.



I’m sure many of us would love a 32” surface. However for those of us on an iPad and unwilling to shell out several thousand dollars for the hardware its not an option. Personally, using it on a 12.9” iPad Pro its not an issue. Simply slide around the score, zoom in, zoom out, its very easy to get around. That said, I consider the 12.9” iPad Pro the minimum screen size for this app. I used it on the Surface 3 back when it first came out and it was a smaller surface and it was simply not practical. 

Ive had no issues whatsoever though on a 12.9” iPad Pro however. Hope that answers your question


----------



## MSutherlandComp

Rory said:


> The guitar library is described as volume 1, so maybe volume 2 will have a steel string guitar. Volume 1 is one of the cases where the demo is “coming soon”. At US$10 the price is right. What do you think of it?



The guitars that they themselves sell are still pretty MIDI-esque. Sounds similar to Sibelius. I'm _really_ hoping we can get some 3rd-party guitars introduced at some point.


----------



## Rory

I think that this video, which I came across tonight, is a caution about how much can be accomplished by purchasing StaffPad's add-on sample libraries. It is The Right of Spring via the StaffPad Orchestral Tools libraries for strings, woodwinds, brass and first chairs, which costs US$400. The person who uploaded the video says that "The sound file was exported directly from StaffPad and suffered no treatment whatsoever". In my view, the result is quite instructive. Maybe it could be improved within StaffPad by working on automation, etc, but here's a question. In what circumstances would one try to make make improvements within StaffPad, on the scale that this needs, rather than just bring the StaffPad file into a DAW? Is it worth paying $400 for this kind of interim result?


----------



## emasters

Rory said:


> Is it worth paying $400 for this kind of interim result?



If you're looking for a "polished" end result, seems like a DAW provides that level of flexibility. For me, StaffPad is more about the ease and flexibility of composition (any where at any time, that fits in a backpack). No doubt using the Berlin libraries in Kontakt with a DAW, can yield a far more realistic result. But I don't think that's the point of StaffPad. Composing with a pencil in score form, with immediate playback that sounds good, is a big step forward (versus Dorico/Sibelus/etc. sitting at a computer with keyboard/text input). I guess everyone will have a different answer if it's worth $400 -- for me, the answer is definitely yes. But I'm not trying to achieve the same result within StaffPad, that one would get from hours of editing in a DAW. StaffPad has helped me remember how fun it is to write orchestral music, without the overhead and complexity of a DAW using traditional traditional sample libraries (though they still have their place and use). How much is having fun composing music on an iPad/Surface Pro worth?


----------



## Dave Connor

prodigalson said:


> I’m sure many of us would love a 32” surface. However for those of us on an iPad and unwilling to shell out several thousand dollars for the hardware its not an option. Personally, using it on a 12.9” iPad Pro its not an issue. Simply slide around the score, zoom in, zoom out, its very easy to get around. That said, I consider the 12.9” iPad Pro the minimum screen size for this app. I used it on the Surface 3 back when it first came out and it was a smaller surface and it was simply not practical.
> 
> Ive had no issues whatsoever though on a 12.9” iPad Pro however. Hope that answers your question


Thanks for the feedback.

My problem is that my thinking is altered just enough from what I’m used to (large score pad) to where it‘s a qualitative change or compromise of my normal process. Add the physical change of no longer instantly reaching for this or that in any part of large score and you have fundamental changes both mentally and physically (like driving a race car with the pedals placed somewhat differently.) I tried the big iPad which had a great feel but struck me as sketch size which likewise would normally be smaller paper. So, looks like I’m stuck with dropping some cash if I really want to go this route. Thanks again.


----------



## Rory

emasters said:


> If you're looking for a "polished" end result, seems like a DAW provides that level of flexibility. For me, StaffPad is more about the ease and flexibility of composition (any where at any time, that fits in a backpack). No doubt using the Berlin libraries in Kontakt with a DAW, can yield a far more realistic result. But I don't think that's the point of StaffPad. Composing with a pencil in score form, with immediate playback that sounds good, is a big step forward (versus Dorico/Sibelus/etc. sitting at a computer with keyboard/text input). I guess everyone will have a different answer if it's worth $400 -- for me, the answer is definitely yes. But I'm not trying to achieve the same result within StaffPad, that one would get from hours of editing in a DAW. StaffPad has helped me remember how fun it is to write orchestral music, without the overhead and complexity of a DAW using traditional traditional sample libraries (though they still have their place and use). How much is having fun composing music on an iPad/Surface Pro worth?




I have StaffPad myself and just finished saying, a few posts up, that I'm completely sold on it. The question that I'm raising isn't about the app, but about the add-on packs, which in this case cost US$400. It isn't a matter of the result being "unpolished", it's a matter of this being the worst recording of this composition, having heard many, that I've heard in my entire life. This is one of those cases where the word abomination is not hyperbolic  For me, the interesting thing is that this composition really exposes the ability of players, and in this case the apparent capabilities of the $400 worth of libraries used in this video, stripped down as they are for the app.

It would be interesting to compare this performance to one using the sound library that comes with the app.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Rory said:


> Is it worth paying $400 for this kind of interim result?




Given what is achievable in other styles and compared to what is achievable in other notation— not DAW— programs?

Yeah, it is a steal.


----------



## dcoscina

Dave Connor said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> My problem is that my thinking is altered just enough from what I’m used to (large score pad) to where it‘s a qualitative change or compromise of my normal process. Add the physical change of no longer instantly reaching for this or that in any part of large score and you have fundamental changes both mentally and physically (like driving a race car with the pedals placed somewhat differently.) I tried the big iPad which had a great feel but struck me as sketch size which likewise would normally be smaller paper. So, looks like I’m stuck with dropping some cash if I really want to go this route. Thanks again.


Just a word of caution Dave; you will have to develop different ways of composing on Staffpad. While it is analogous to writing traditionally, it is still at a point where one must make some adjustments in how they jot down music. That said, it’s still the closest thing to composing traditionally compared to a DaW and it’s rendering quality is infinitely better than Notion, Sibelius or Dorico using NotePerformer (which I used a lot prior to Staffpad and still do for engraver quality scores). 

As another post noted, everyone will have to assess Staffpad for its worth to them. I know a few active film and game composers who didn’t have much success with it and given the timelines on their work, I can understand why it wouldn’t be something valuable at this time. For myself who has been wanting to move away from media Scoring and more towards concert writing, I think it’s amazing so I will spend the time with it and shell out the $$$ for it. i use an iPad Pro 2020 11” and I don’t find any issues with workflow btw.


----------



## marius_dm

Hi all. I purchased Berlin Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, and Cinestrings solo last night and I’m having trouble installing the extensions. When I click on restore purchases it starts downloading all the extensions but when the download finishes they just show again as Available to Download. I reinstalled everything and I can’t get it to work. I’m on the latest iOS 13.5 on iPad Pro 10.5.

Anyone having the same issues?


----------



## dcoscina

marius_dm said:


> Hi all. I purchased Berlin Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, and Cinestrings solo last night and I’m having trouble installing the extensions. When I click on restore purchases it starts downloading all the extensions but when the download finishes they just show again as Available to Download. I reinstalled everything and I can’t get it to work. I’m on the latest iOS 13.5 on iPad Pro 10.5.
> 
> Anyone having the same issues?


The store is somewhat temperamental especially if they are working on updates on their end. I usually close the app, re boot, make sure no other apps are running, open Staffpad, then download. I had a silly of a time downloading Berlin Brass when I first got my iPad Pro a couple weeks back (love it, coming from 2019 Air3), and David told me that their server was having issues that particular day and to try the next morning. I did and it was fine.


----------



## gussunkri

dcoscina said:


> The store is somewhat temperamental especially if they are working on updates on their end. I usually close the app, re boot, make sure no other apps are running, open Staffpad, then download. I had a silly of a time downloading Berlin Brass when I first got my iPad Pro a couple weeks back (love it, coming from 2019 Air3), and David told me that their server was having issues that particular day and to try the next morning. I did and it was fine.


What were the main differences between the iPad Air 3 and the 11” pro?


----------



## marius_dm

dcoscina said:


> The store is somewhat temperamental especially if they are working on updates on their end. I usually close the app, re boot, make sure no other apps are running, open Staffpad, then download. I had a silly of a time downloading Berlin Brass when I first got my iPad Pro a couple weeks back (love it, coming from 2019 Air3), and David told me that their server was having issues that particular day and to try the next morning. I did and it was fine.



Thanks. I tried all that multiple times but it seems like at least one of the libraries doesn’t download successfully on restore. I contacted support, we’ll see.


----------



## dcoscina

marius_dm said:


> Thanks. I tried all that multiple times but it seems like at least one of the libraries doesn’t download successfully on restore. I contacted support, we’ll see.


It's likely that they are uploading a new updated version of it. I've seen a lot of instrument expansion update activity these days. My guess is they are ramping up to another app update.


----------



## dcoscina

I updated my space, Goldsmith action cue with a more serene beginning using Berlin winds, brass, perc, strings, CinePerc, and Scoring Synths. And the kitchen sink (beta expansion library)...JK.


----------



## Dave Connor

dcoscina said:


> Just a word of caution Dave; you will have to develop different ways of composing on Staffpad. While it is analogous to writing traditionally, it is still at a point where one must make some adjustments in how they jot down music. That said, it’s still the closest thing to composing traditionally compared to a DaW and it’s rendering quality is infinitely better than Notion, Sibelius or Dorico using NotePerformer (which I used a lot prior to Staffpad and still do for engraver quality scores).
> 
> As another post noted, everyone will have to assess Staffpad for its worth to them. I know a few active film and game composers who didn’t have much success with it and given the timelines on their work, I can understand why it wouldn’t be something valuable at this time. For myself who has been wanting to move away from media Scoring and more towards concert writing, I think it’s amazing so I will spend the time with it and shell out the $$$ for it. i use an iPad Pro 2020 11” and I don’t find any issues with workflow btw.


Thanks Dave, Yes, I have been thinking about exactly the things you mentioned: that there are adjustments to be made and it is software after all so it is a different process and not a perfect analogue to pencil and paper.

I’m with you on composing outright and have been thinking of this as eliminating the big steps of inputing from score for midi rendering or just having an engraved quality score. Also, there’s the phenomenon of the incompleteness of mockups because they sound ok even when not real-world orchestrated. Seeing everything on the page would eliminate that. I haven’t really thought of it as replacing the process I use professionally since that is usually DAW based with eventual audio output. It’s really about sitting down and composing in the most preferred way and also having things in a digital domain.


----------



## dcoscina

Dave Connor said:


> Thanks Dave, Yes, I have been thinking about exactly the things you mentioned: that there are adjustments to be made and it is software after all so it is a different process and not a perfect analogue to pencil and paper.
> 
> I’m with you on composing outright and have been thinking of this as eliminating the big steps of inputing from score for midi rendering or just having an engraved quality score. Also, there’s the phenomenon of the incompleteness of mockups because they sound ok even when not real-world orchestrated. Seeing everything on the page would eliminate that. I haven’t really thought of it as replacing the process I use professionally since that is usually DAW based with eventual audio output. It’s really about sitting down and composing in the most preferred way and also having things in a digital domain.


yes exactly and from that standpoint, I think it's marvellous. Additionally, I think its rendering is pretty damned good. Where I once had to export XML or MIDI files from a notation app to Logic or DP or Cubase to substitute with better samples, then spending hours finessing it, I no longer feel that's necessary. Staffpad provides 80-90% of what I'm after and can convey it to others. And it can handle stuff like this which I was pleasantly surprised at. I've actually begun another movement of this work (turning it from a tone poem to a suite).


----------



## Dan

dcoscina said:


> yes exactly and from that standpoint, I think it's marvellous. Additionally, I think its rendering is pretty damned good. Where I once had to export XML or MIDI files from a notation app to Logic or DP or Cubase to substitute with better samples, then spending hours finessing it, I no longer feel that's necessary. Staffpad provides 80-90% of what I'm after and can convey it to others. And it can handle stuff like this which I was pleasantly surprised at. I've actually begun another movement of this work (turning it from a tone poem to a suite).




That really sounds awesome! I would love to hear more movements as the suite grows.


----------



## Dave Connor

dcoscina said:


> yes exactly and from that standpoint, I think it's marvellous. Additionally, I think its rendering is pretty damned good. Where I once had to export XML or MIDI files from a notation app to Logic or DP or Cubase to substitute with better samples, then spending hours finessing it, I no longer feel that's necessary. Staffpad provides 80-90% of what I'm after and can convey it to others. And it can handle stuff like this which I was pleasantly surprised at. I've actually begun another movement of this work (turning it from a tone poem to a suite).



Wow, very nice Dave. Is that 100% Berlin?


----------



## Dave Connor

Eric G said:


> I would always max out in ram. 16GB should be the bare minimum but StaffPad runs on My surface Book without problem. I would say on Windows you have to stop running any heavy background services like Skype etc.. otherwise you will experience dropouts. No different than when you use a DAW.


Is this because the add-ons are using a healthy amount of ram? Thinking of getting the same setup you have at 16gbs - do you think 32 is a safer bet?


----------



## dcoscina

Dave Connor said:


> Wow, very nice Dave. Is that 100% Berlin?


Yup. I would like brass mutes as an option moving forward and perhaps some more string FX but I never liked all the canned FX that various libraries came with. I studied with James Tenney who himself was a student of Varése so I learned how to notate this stuff the old fashioned way and much prefer it.


----------



## dcoscina

Dave Connor said:


> Is this because the add-ons are using a healthy amount of ram? Thinking of getting the same setup you have at 16gbs - do you think 32 is a safer bet?


Actually for a pretty large file that I sent to David, he said it was only taking up about 1gb of RAM. He also told me that the reason these libraries sound so good but at a fraction of the memory footprint is that they are only single mics and he could remove much of the real-time factors that the full Kontakt-based libraries require for keyboard input. I find they work very very well. And sound fabulous. Regardless of how well these expansion libraries behave (and they are still a bit of a work in progress) the playback expression and realism from Staffpad with Berlin is leagues better than NotePerformer (which I championed very vigorously here and everywhere).

EDIT- I'm on an iPad however. Memory might be used differently on the Windows platform.


----------



## Rory

As far as I can tell, the StaffPad app does not say what the size is of the add-on libraries before they are purchased and downloaded. I am interested specifically in knowing what the difference is in size between the Orchestral Tools and CineSamples pianos. If anyone has purchased one or both, I'd appreciate knowing how large each is, which can be found by taping "Downloads and Updates" at the bottom of the Store page. If not, does anyone know whether this information is available somewhere pre-purchase?

Thanks


----------



## marius_dm

Here’s a really silly first attempt not only in StaffPad but actually composing/writing straight in notation. I didnt use a piano or instrument to test ideas first either, so it was just brain to paper.
I’m just an enthusiastic amateur, don’t have any formal training whatsoever so I wrote this piece while googling dynamics and articulation symbols and figuring out rhythms and rests and note duration values LOL.

It took me about 5hrs to write this, so I’m really slow, but I’m learning.
So if anyone out there is considering a notation program by they can’t read music, I’ll say it’s not that hard to learn.

Of course complex stuff like @dcoscina does would take me a bit to unwrap LOL.

I used Berlin Strings, Woodwinds, and Brass. Percussion is the stock StaffPad sounds.
So even though I don’t really know what I’m doing orchestration-wise, it still sounds pretty good to me. It’s quite an amazing piece of software!


----------



## gfcgfc

Rory said:


> As far as I can tell, the StaffPad app does not say what the size is of the add-on libraries before they are purchased and downloaded. I am interested specifically in knowing what the difference is in size between the Orchestral Tools and CineSamples pianos. If anyone has purchased one or both, I'd appreciate knowing how large each is, which can be found by taping "Downloads and Updates" at the bottom of the Store page. If not, does anyone know whether this information is available somewhere pre-purchase?
> 
> Thanks


Berlin Pianos are 1.61 gb. No idea about Cinepiano because I don’t own it.


----------



## Rory

gfcgfc said:


> Berlin Pianos are 1.61 gb. No idea about Cinepiano because I don’t own it.



Thanks very much. As the Orchestral Tools library has two pianos, and the Cinesamples library has one, I'm interested in how they compare in size.

There's a fellow on YouTube who has uploaded recordings from the StaffPad piano, one of the OT pianos and the Cinesamples piano. He thinks that all three libraries are useful, in other words that the StaffPad piano is co-equal. Do you have a view on this?


----------



## brandowalk

MisteR said:


> Sounds good. Which libraries did you use?


Thanks!

75% Spitfire, 25% Cine


----------



## dcoscina

marius_dm said:


> Here’s a really silly first attempt not only in StaffPad but actually composing/writing straight in notation. I didnt use a piano or instrument to test ideas first either, so it was just brain to paper.
> I’m just an enthusiastic amateur, don’t have any formal training whatsoever so I wrote this piece while googling dynamics and articulation symbols and figuring out rhythms and rests and note duration values LOL.
> 
> It took me about 5hrs to write this, so I’m really slow, but I’m learning.
> So if anyone out there is considering a notation program by they can’t read music, I’ll say it’s not that hard to learn.
> 
> Of course complex stuff like @dcoscina does would take me a bit to unwrap LOL.
> 
> I used Berlin Strings, Woodwinds, and Brass. Percussion is the stock StaffPad sounds.
> So even though I don’t really know what I’m doing orchestration-wise, it still sounds pretty good to me. It’s quite an amazing piece of software!


Hey this is really nice! You definitely have a talent and skill for this. Nice balanced orchestration, good balance, and shape to your work. Well done!


----------



## dcoscina

Dan said:


> That really sounds awesome! I would love to hear more movements as the suite grows.


Thanks for listening. I'm definitely going for a Berg/Bartok vibe with this entire work. The last part might get a little more Ravel/Debussy however. I'm still planning the other movements.


----------



## emasters

Rory said:


> I have StaffPad myself and just finished saying, a few posts up, that I'm completely sold on it. The question that I'm raising isn't about the app, but about the add-on packs, which in this case cost US$400. It isn't a matter of the result being "unpolished", it's a matter of this being the worst recording of this composition, having heard many, that I've heard in my entire life. This is one of those cases where the word abomination is not hyperbolic  For me, the interesting thing is that this composition really exposes the ability of players, and in this case the apparent capabilities of the $400 worth of libraries used in this video, stripped down as they are for the app.
> 
> It would be interesting to compare this performance to one using the sound library that comes with the app.



No doubt, the add-on libaries are expensive and do add up quickly. I can't speak to the quality of the score you're referring to -- though I agree there is (much) room for improvement. Perhaps you could start with the Berlin string library and see what you think? If it's acceptable, you can alway add more. If not, you're out $99 and know you won't be buying more. If you do buy them, will be curious to see what you think using them with your own compositions versus the score you found on YouTube.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Rory said:


> I think that this video, which I came across tonight, is a caution about how much can be accomplished by purchasing StaffPad's add-on sample libraries. It is The Right of Spring via the StaffPad Orchestral Tools libraries for strings, woodwinds, brass and first chairs, which costs US$400. The person who uploaded the video says that "The sound file was exported directly from StaffPad and suffered no treatment whatsoever". In my view, the result is quite instructive. Maybe it could be improved within StaffPad by working on automation, etc, but here's a question. In what circumstances would one try to make make improvements within StaffPad, on the scale that this needs, rather than just bring the StaffPad file into a DAW? Is it worth paying $400 for this kind of interim result?



Go listen to your local community orchestra play this, and then come back and listen to it. Then it'll sound like a breath of fresh air. This isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be. Sure, the bassoon part sucks, but you know what? Most of the time it sucks in real life, too. That's what happens when a composer writes for an instrument in extreme registers. Half of the success of good orchestration is accomplished by asking instruments to do what they do best. Try employing this with StaffPad, and you'll find that it is a remarkable tool. It is not an orchestra; it is a tool. 

And $400 for an entire orchestra? I have string libraries that cost twice this. It is a steal.


----------



## Rory

Hi @emasters and @Jett Hitt,

I've decided to just use StaffPad as a notation tool. In my workflow, everything has to go from StaffPad to Logic. It's not a matter of if, but when. I don't see any upside to delaying the export while I mess around with stripped down third party libraries in StaffPad. Consequently, I'll be using the StaffPad instrument library rather than third party libraries. Personally, I have better ways to spend hundreds of dollars. Obviously, you've come to a different conclusion. Cool.

The possible exception is that I may purchase either the Orchestral Tools or CineSamples piano library. A few posts above, @gfcgfc kindly let me know that the OT library is 1.61GB. I'll make a decision after I find out the size of the CineSamples library. This information does not appear to be available prior to purchase. If anyone has this library and could let me know the size, that info should be at the end of the app's Store page under "Downloads and Updates". Thanks.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Rory said:


> Hi @emasters and @Jett Hitt,
> The possible exception is that I may purchase either the Orchestral Tools or CineSamples piano library. A few posts above, @gfcgfc kindly let me know that the OT library is 1.1GB. I'll make a decision after I find out the size of the CineSamples library. This information does not appear to be available prior to purchase. If anyone has this library and could let me know the size, that info is at the end of the app's Store page under "Downloads and Updates". Thanks.



I, too, would like to know more about Cinepiano. Demos are scarce. The quality of the Berlin libraries has been such that not many seem to be taking a chance on the others. I have bought two non-Berlin libraries, and I have regretted both of them.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Rory said:


> Hi @emasters and @Jett Hitt,
> 
> I've decided to just use StaffPad as a notation tool. In my workflow, everything has to go from StaffPad to Logic. It's not a matter of if, but when. I don't see any upside to delaying the export while I mess around with stripped down third party libraries in StaffPad. Consequently, I'll be using the StaffPad instrument library rather than third party libraries. Personally, I have better ways to spend hundreds of dollars. Obviously, you've come to a different conclusion. Cool.


@Rory I would encourage you to experiment with one or two of the Berlin libraries (strings) because, well, if you're just going to use it as a notation program, it is not very efficient. I can enter notes much, much faster with Finale. And I, too, end up in Logic in the end, mostly. But for sketching, StaffPad's playback engine is far superior to anything I have encountered in a notation program--and I've tried all of them.


----------



## marius_dm

dcoscina said:


> Hey this is really nice! You definitely have a talent and skill for this. Nice balanced orchestration, good balance, and shape to your work. Well done!



Oh my, thank you so much. Having heard your work this means a lot! 

It is so incredibly liberating and fun not to have to deal with a DAW, templates, managing articulations, etc etc.
Also, I’m still learning notation, but more and more I can see the strengths of it. All I need is my iPad and my earbuds to write orchestral music on my porch and hear it play back beautifully.


----------



## stevebarden

I’d like to share some of the work I’ve done with StaffPad as an example of the some of the available add-on libraries. To date I’m using Spitfire woodwinds and symphonic strings, CineBrass and CinePerc, and when applicable, Voxos choir. Piano and harp are still the stock instruments provided by StaffPad. 

Examples here are a cue from Back to the Future and a couple of original pieces.

4M3 Ditches DeLorean


Go West


Fairytale Romance


----------



## gussunkri

stevebarden said:


> I’d like to share some of the work I’ve done with StaffPad as an example of the some of the available add-on libraries. To date I’m using Spitfire woodwinds and symphonic strings, CineBrass and CinePerc, and when applicable, Voxos choir. Piano and harp are still the stock instruments provided by StaffPad.
> 
> Examples here are a cue from Back to the Future and a couple of original pieces.
> 
> 4M3 Ditches DeLorean
> 
> 
> Go West
> 
> 
> Fairytale Romance



Great! Maybe the glock sounds a bit too close but otherwise it sounds amazing


----------



## Rory

Rory said:


> If anyone has this library [CinePiano] and could let me know the size, that info should be at the end of the app's Store page under "Downloads and Updates". Thanks.



I've now asked StaffPad for this information and will post the response.


----------



## Rory

As far as I can tell, the StaffPad Help Guide/User Manual can't be downloaded from the StaffPad web site. It can only be read on the web site or from within the app, in both cases requiring an internet connection. I spend substantial amounts of time in places that don't have internet access. I'd like to get the guide into iBooks. However, an attempt to export the Guide as a .pdf and import it into iBooks was not very successful.

Has anyone figured out how to do this?

It would be very helpful, and dead simple to do, if StaffPad would make the guide available for download as a .pdf.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Rory said:


> As far as I can tell, the StaffPad Help Guide/User Manual can't be downloaded from the StaffPad web site. It can only be read on the web site or from within the app, in both cases requiring an internet connection. I spend substantial amounts of time in places that don't have internet access. I'd like to get the guide into iBooks. However, an attempt to export the Guide as a .pdf and import it into iBooks was not very successful.
> 
> Has anyone figured out how to do this?
> 
> It would be very helpful, and dead simple to do, if StaffPad would make the guide available for download as a .pdf.


I suppose that you could make PDFs of all the help pages, but in general, I think that the app is simple enough that, after a short while of using it, you don't really need the manual. After I watched all of the StaffPad videos and spent a couple of days inputting music, I was good to go.


----------



## Rory

Jett Hitt said:


> I suppose that you could make PDFs of all the help pages, but in general, I think that the app is simple enough that, after a short while of using it, you don't really need the manual. After I watched all of the StaffPad videos and spent a couple of days inputting music, I was good to go.



What I suppose is that it would be dead simple for StaffPad to make the user guide available as a .pdf. Great that you don't need the manual, but apparently some do or else there wouldn't be one. I want the manual, I'm often away from an internet connection and making it available isn't rocket science. Having paid StaffPad US$90, this shouldn't be hard


----------



## Rory

Rory said:


> I've now asked StaffPad for this information [size of the CinePiano library] and will post the response.



Fast response from Andrew at StaffPad. Apparently I am not the only person who would like this kind of information pre-purchase:



> "We are working on a list of available libraries/sizes on our website, we get a lot of questions about those.
> 
> "The size of CinePiano StaffPad edition is about 220 MB."



According to a post earlier in this thread, the Orchestral Tools piano library, which includes three pianos, is more than seven times larger at 1.61GB. I repeated that number in my query to StaffPad, and Andrew's reply does not say that it's wrong.


----------



## lucor

After all those incredible demos I heard here over the past few months, I just had to revisit Staffpad and what can I say, I just went all in and purchased the whole Berlin Series + CinePerc, Scoring Synths & VOXOS.  And from what I can tell so far I don't regret it a single bit. 

One first question: Does anyone know of a good way to send the Staffpad audio to a PC in a somewhat latency free way? While I like composing with just pen & paper, I also want to be able to work things out on my keyboard. And since I have to wear headphones when doing that, I essentially would have to wear 2 pairs of headphones at the same time. Since that is kinda tricky, it would be great to have an audio feed from the iPad to my DAW instead.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Rory said:


> What I suppose is that it would be dead simple for StaffPad to make the user guide available as a .pdf. Great that you don't need the manual, but apparently some do or else there wouldn't be one. I want the manual, I'm often away from an internet connection and making it available isn't rocket science. Having paid StaffPad US$90, this shouldn't be hard


I know of no software that houses its manuals in house. They are always online so that they can be easily updated.


----------



## Rory

Jett Hitt said:


> I know of no software that houses its manuals in house. They are always online so that they can be easily updated.



In fact, there are many software manuals available online in .pdf form, including the ones that I've exported to iBooks for Logic, Final Cut Pro X and many other apps, including just about every Logic plugin I own.

I asked a simple question, which is whether anyone has successfully exported StaffPad's on-line manual as a .pdf and then imported it into iBooks or similar. I also said that StaffPad could easily make it available.

I was not asking for a debate about whether I need the manual off-line or for erroneous information about industry practice. I don't know why I have to justify myself, but I have a summer home on a salmon river in rural Newfoundland that is out of internet range. When things get back to normal, I would also like access to the manual on the New York Subway system, which is how most people in New York get around and where internet connectivity is spotty at best.

This is not complicated. I paid US$90 for this app and I want the user manual in a form that doesn't require an internet connection. You have no solutions, just a desire to argue about it, to what purpose I have no idea.

If anyone has a solution, I'd appreciate details. At this point, I may also ask StaffPad directly, if only so that I can address this question without dealing with people who want to argue about something simple and who presume to tell me what I do, and don't, need.


----------



## Eric G

Rory said:


> In fact, there are many software manuals available online in .pdf form, including the ones that I've exported to iBooks for Logic, Final Cut Pro X and many other apps.
> 
> I asked a simple question, which is whether anyone has successfully exported StaffPad's on-line manual as a .pdf and then imported it into iBooks or similar. I also said that StaffPad could easily make it available.
> 
> I was not asking for a debate about whether I need the manual off-line or for erroneous information about industry practice. I don't know why I have to justify myself, but I have a summer home on a salmon river in rural Newfoundland that is out of internet range. When things get back to normal, I would also like access to the manual on the New York Subway system, which is how most people in New York get around and where internet connectivity is spotty at best.
> 
> This is not complicated. I paid US$90 for this app and I want the user manual in a form that doesn't require an internet connection. You have no solutions, just a desire to argue about it, to what purpose I have no idea.
> 
> If anyone has a solution, I'd appreciate details. At this point, I may also ask StaffPad directly, if only so that I can address this question without dealing with people who want to argue about something simple and who presume to tell me what I do, and don't, need.
> [/Q



I don't see what the issue is. I am on a PC so all I did was navigate to the help documentation (https://staffpad.zendesk.com/hc/en-us), right click on the right portion of the page "Welcome to StaffPad" and then selected the "Save as..." menu item and the entire help document (html) was downloaded to a folder on my PC. Then I could use "Print to PDF". But I know that there will be significant Formatting issues. And iBooks I have no idea about.


----------



## Rory

Eric G said:


> I don't see what the issue is. I am on a PC so all I did was navigate to the help documentation (https://staffpad.zendesk.com/hc/en-us), right click on the right portion of the page "Welcome to StaffPad" and then selected the "Save as..." menu item and the entire help document (html) was downloaded to a folder on my PC. Then I could use "Print to PDF". But I know that there will be significant Formatting issues. And iBooks I have no idea about.



On a Mac, Safari "Save as..." gives Web Archive as an option, but not .PDF, and I have not been able to save the entire manual even as a Web Archive. Safari "Export" and "Share" options also don't save the whole manual.

I _was _able to scroll through the whole manual, therefore "opening" all of it, and then export it as a .PDF. However, some images were missing. Exporting this .PDF to Books (formerly iBooks) resulted in an unreadable mess. You say that you had "significant formatting issues" even with a PC.

As a practical matter, I need to get the manual onto Books, which is normally a snap with a .PDF document. I may be able to get this to work with some trial and error and some Google searches, but I was hoping that someone has already succeeded in doing it. If I can't resolve this today, I'll write to StaffPad about getting a .PDF in digital form. I don't care if it's right up to date with the latest changes. In any event, it would be very easy for StaffPad to make the manual available as a download. It may just be not very conscious of the fact that some people are not connected to the internet all the time.

Thanks Eric, good to know someone else's results in trying to get the manual into .pdf form.


----------



## JJHLH

Michael Antrum said:


> I would also add this into the equation. I just bought a 12.9” 2020 256gb iPad Pro, as I too had a big um and ahh over which size to get. Yes the 11” is more portable, but the extra screen real estate is a big improvement when working on full orchestral Scores, but the main reason I chose the 12.9” had nothing to do with Staffpad at all.
> 
> I also have an app called ForScore, which will eventually have all my sheet music in it. I can load up my sheet music and the screen is big enough to comfortably read the music on my piano stand. So now I no longer have to cart around big books of music, and that is a major plus for me that outweighs the slightly better portability of the 11”.
> (you can even get a Bluetooth foot switch that will perform page turning for you.)



forScore is awesome! If you sign up for the Pro subscription ($9.99/year) you also get access to the built in page turning feature which works incredibly well. It requires a new iPad which has facial recognition (no home button). I have mine setup to turn the page forwards when I twitch my lips to the right, and backwards when I twitch them to the left. There is a slider to adjust the sensitivity and a calibration button as well. After dialing it in it’s super reliable and accurate.

I highly recommend trying this before buying a foot pedal. It‘s such an elegant simple solution that doesn’t require a separate device. A great example of harnessing new technology to enhance our enjoyment.


----------



## J.T.

dcoscina said:


> Additionally, I think its rendering is pretty damned good.



Are those effects prerecorded or did Staffpad perform them from regular samples?

TIA


----------



## Mymind

lucor said:


> One first question: Does anyone know of a good way to send the Staffpad audio to a PC in a somewhat latency free way? While I like composing with just pen & paper, I also want to be able to work things out on my keyboard. And since I have to wear headphones when doing that, I essentially would have to wear 2 pairs of headphones at the same time. Since that is kinda tricky, it would be great to have an audio feed from the iPad to my DAW instead.


I have the same problem and am interested in the solution too. I have an imac 5k 2016 but connecting my ipad with to imac doesn’t work although it should be working.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Mymind said:


> I have the same problem and am interested in the solution too. I have an imac 5k 2016 but connecting my ipad with to imac doesn’t work although it should be working.


I am using a program called Reflector 3. I think there was a 7-day trial, so you can see how it works for you. It lets you mirror your iPad to your Mac. I use this to use my monitors. The disadvantage is that it sort of takes control of your Mac, but it is quick and easy to hit quit and then reconnect when you need to-- five-second ordeal. The performance is acceptable, but I wouldn't call it great. It is worth a try for free. If you like it, I think it was $17.


----------



## Mymind

Jett Hitt said:


> I am using a program called Reflector 3. I think there was a 7-day trial, so you can see how it works for you. It lets you mirror your iPad to your Mac. I use this to use my monitors. The disadvantage is that it sort of takes control of your Mac, but it is quick and easy to hit quit and then reconnect when you need to-- five-second ordeal. The performance is acceptable, but I wouldn't call it great. It is worth a try for free. If you like it, I think it was $17.


Thanks but actually I need to use it simultaneously. May be an 2 usb input audio interface but I can’t find out.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Mymind said:


> Thanks but actually I need to use it simultaneously. May be an 2 usb input audio interface but I can’t find out.


If your keyboard is playing through your Mac, it will work fine. I can play my keyboard while my iPad is connected. You just can't really interact with another program because there is a mirror image of your iPad in the way.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I run GarageBand in the background on my iPad (you need to turn on 'keep running in background' in the prefs) and then connect a bluetooth midi keyboard to it. The the keyboard will allow me to play around with ideas whilst I still have staffpad in the foreground.

You can do this with other VI's too.


----------



## Mymind

Actually I use Transcribe software on my mac and staffpad (with garageband running on background mode connected to my midi keyboard) on my ipad. For now I use two headphones which is not practical.


----------



## dcoscina

J.T. said:


> Are those effects prerecorded or did Staffpad perform them from regular samples?
> 
> TIA


Staffpad performed them. It does have the ability to play runs very effectively. At least Berlin does. I don’t have any other sound expansion from another developer except Spitfire Strings and I never use them. 
The clusters were notated and for the horns I’d usually add flutter tongue as well for an additional unsettling sound. sometimes half tone trills.

glides and glissando are also performed very well by Berlin expansions in Staffpad and I used them in various places.


----------



## dcoscina

J.T. said:


> Seems like it'd be easier if the app let you draw the pitches an octave below and give you a quick shortcut to indicate that you want them notated an octave higher. That'd be quicker than you having to draw the ledger lines in the first place. That's what I hated the most from when I wrote scores by hand. 16th note runs for high violins and flutes. Slowed me to a crawl.


I either use the 8va or 15va line which can be found in the drop down tool bar. Otherwise I write my line within the staff, use the lasso tool, highlight the phrase I want and drag it up accordingly. Works super well.


----------



## dcoscina

I’ve been thinking about getting a Yamaha reface CP for portable pitch reference. Of course the iPad has Pianist Pro app that I use now but I I didn’t want to switch between the two the Yamaha is a nice board.


----------



## Rory

Overview/breakdown of the StaffPad piano libraries (Cinesamples, Orchestral Tools, Spitfire Audio): https://vi-control.net/community/th...amples-orchestral-tools-spitfire-audio.93854/


----------



## prodigalson

lucor said:


> One first question: Does anyone know of a good way to send the Staffpad audio to a PC in a somewhat latency free way? While I like composing with just pen & paper, I also want to be able to work things out on my keyboard. And since I have to wear headphones when doing that, I essentially would have to wear 2 pairs of headphones at the same time. Since that is kinda tricky, it would be great to have an audio feed from the iPad to my DAW instead.



Do you have an input available on your interface that you could take a stereo aux cable from your iPad to your interface? So both signals are in the headphones connected to your interface?


----------



## Mymind

marius_dm said:


> Here’s a really silly first attempt not only in StaffPad but actually composing/writing straight in notation. I didnt use a piano or instrument to test ideas first either, so it was just brain to paper.
> I’m just an enthusiastic amateur, don’t have any formal training whatsoever so I wrote this piece while googling dynamics and articulation symbols and figuring out rhythms and rests and note duration values LOL.
> 
> It took me about 5hrs to write this, so I’m really slow, but I’m learning.
> So if anyone out there is considering a notation program by they can’t read music, I’ll say it’s not that hard to learn.
> 
> Of course complex stuff like @dcoscina does would take me a bit to unwrap LOL.
> 
> I used Berlin Strings, Woodwinds, and Brass. Percussion is the stock StaffPad sounds.
> So even though I don’t really know what I’m doing orchestration-wise, it still sounds pretty good to me. It’s quite an amazing piece of software!


Your music so good and well orchestrated! I just have listened to the full version in youtube. It’s the kind of music that makes me say « I wish I have composed that ». Bravo


----------



## Michael Antrum

dcoscina said:


> I’ve been thinking about getting a Yamaha reface CP for portable pitch reference. Of course the iPad has Pianist Pro app that I use now but I I didn’t want to switch between the two the Yamaha is a nice board.



I was going to get the Akai Mini Play, which has inbuilt sounds and a little speaker for around £ 100.00, but I find that the Akai LPK25 Bluetooth does me just fine. The Yamaha Reface is physically a bit too big for me to want to hawk it around. I've only just got things really portable, and I'm not about to add an anchor to it......


----------



## Mymind

I have the komplete m32 and I am happy with it. I carry it with me when I travel. It was a comprimise between the Akai and Reface.


----------



## dcoscina

Michael Antrum said:


> I was going to get the Akai Mini Play, which has inbuilt sounds and a little speaker for around £ 100.00, but I find that the Akai LPK20 Bluetooth does me just fine. The Yamaha Reface is physically a bit too big for me to want to hawk it around. I've only just got things really portable, and I'm not about to add an anchor to it......


The MPK Mini Play is super portable. The sounds aren't hideous when you play through headphones either.


----------



## dcoscina

Mymind said:


> I have the komplete m32 and I am happy with it. I carry it with me when I travel. It was a comprimise between the Akai and Reface.


how are you all using controllers with your ipads? I have a few of them (M32, LPK25, Arturia MicroLab) but I don't know of a splitter that allows for headphones AND passthru data on the USB. Are you using BT headphones and isn't there latency then?


----------



## marius_dm

Mymind said:


> Your music so good and well orchestrated! I just have listened to the full version in youtube. It’s the kind of music that makes me say « I wish I have composed that ». Bravo



Thank you for listening and for the undeserved kind words.

It is interesting that you said “full version”. The mp3 I posted here should have been the same exact version but I see now that on my iPhone the audio player just stops randomly about half way with no way to continue. Strange.

Anyone else experiencing this? Seems like a bug in the site’s audio player.


----------



## dcoscina

marius_dm said:


> Thank you for listening and for the undeserved kind words.
> 
> It is interesting that you said “full version”. The mp3 I posted here should have been the same exact version but I see now that on my iPhone the audio player just stops randomly about half way with no way to continue. Strange.
> 
> Anyone else experiencing this? Seems like a bug in the site’s audio player.


I've noticed that MP3 that we attach sometimes cut off suddenly.


----------



## Mymind

dcoscina said:


> how are you all using controllers with your ipads? I have a few of them (M32, LPK25, Arturia MicroLab) but I don't know of a splitter that allows for headphones AND passthru data on the USB. Are you using BT headphones and isn't there latency then?


Actually I use my bose Bluetooth headphones and I just connect my ipad pro 12,9 with the keyboard by usb cable (with dongle to convert usb-c to usb) and the latency is correct for composing. For just enjoying playing the keyboard and if you expect no latency at all, you need to buy this kind of adapter. 








Aluminum Type-C Mobile Pro Hub


The Type-C Mobile Pro Hub is the perfect USB C hub for your iPad Pro, featuring 4K HDMI, USB-C PD charging, USB 3.0 and a headphone jack over a single USB-C connection.




satechi.net





I think I will buy it as my BT headphones sounds too boomy.


----------



## Rory

dcoscina said:


> Are you using BT headphones and isn't there latency then?


.

I use BlueTooth headphones/earbuds (Bose Quiet Comfort 35 and Apple AirPods Pro) when using a DPA d:vice preamp to record to an iOS device. I do this to monitor the recording. There is definite latency, but I can adjust to it. Some people may be less tolerant. I think that whether it's an issue when composing depends on _how_ one is composing. It helps to turn off any noise cancellation, which _might_ be the cause of the "boominess" of the Bose headphones referred to in an earlier post.

If there's curiosity about what a DPA d:vice is, this B&H video shows one in use to record a piano player in a New York public space. The reason that they were able to use wired rather than BlueTooth headphones in the video is that they used an iPad made before the headphone jack was eliminated.


----------



## wcreed51

This looks like it could be a bridge between tablet and desktop audio hardware:


----------



## emasters

wcreed51 said:


> This looks like it could be a bridge between tablet and desktop audio hardware:



From what I've read, it looks like APTX(-HD) is not supported on IOS devices. Would be a nice solution if Apple had support for the APTX codec. Would be curious if anyone has experience with this, or knows of a solution to get APTX with an IOS device.


----------



## dcoscina

I got some BT EarPods but yeah the latency is pretty bad for any real-time playing like GarageBand or SampleTank. For Staffpad it seems ok however.


----------



## Mymind

Hi guys, I had decided to participate to the outside competition by orchestral tools and staffpaf but unfortunately I couldn't finish the score for personal reason. But I enjoyed it as it pushed me to do the best I can, so It helps me to improve a lot. So I am searching a sort of list of all competitions available in order to participate of a maximum of them. Do you have an advise to be aware of competitions? Any site or social media to follow up? 
Thanks!


----------



## OleJoergensen

Mymind said:


> Hi guys, I had decided to participate to the outside competition by orchestral tools and staffpaf but unfortunately I couldn't finish the score for personal reason. But I enjoyed it as it pushed me to do the best I can, so It helps me to improve a lot. So I am searching a sort of list of all competitions available in order to participate of a maximum of them. Do you have an advise to be aware of competitions? Any site or social media to follow up?
> Thanks!


I think the most is on youtube. Just search for #OutsideCompetition


----------



## Mymind

OleJoergensen said:


> I think the most is on youtube. Just search for #OutsideCompetition


Thank you Ole. Sorry, but I think I failed to explain very well what I am searching. Actually I want to be aware of potential upcoming competitions available proposed by different companies. I was aware of the outside competition because I just follow the OT page on FB. I search the possibility to know if there are other competitions elsewhere which I can participate.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Mymind said:


> Thank you Ole. Sorry, but I think I failed to explain very well what I am searching. Actually I want to be aware of potential upcoming competitions available proposed by different companies. I was aware of the outside competition because I just follow the OT page on FB. I search the possibility to know if there are other competitions elsewhere which I can participate.


Oh I think it is me who didnt read closely, Im sorry


----------



## dcoscina

Here you go



Composition Competitions, Jobs & Opportunities


----------



## Mymind

dcoscina said:


> Here you go
> 
> 
> 
> Composition Competitions, Jobs & Opportunities


Thanks David,
That’s very useful.


----------



## dcoscina

Mymind said:


> Thanks David,
> That’s very useful.


Just make sure to look at the Due Date. Some of those links are still active for competitions that have already expired.


----------



## Mymind

Hi, I always wanted for ipad an equivalent of the surface dial. I hope that one day it will be possible with third party hardware. Something like this would be dope to navigate the score, undo/redo and access easily to some tools.









Orbiter Module


**PRE-ORDER ITEM: Estimated to ship in late April**A first-of-its-kind input device designed for expressive and precise control of 2D and 3D interactions. Pressure Sensitive Disc Tilt for expressive and confident control in X/Y directions. Individually assign functions to X and Y axis Monogram...




store.monogramcc.com


----------



## wcreed51

Can someone explain how the surface dial functions in StaffPad? Does it only work on the Surface, or can it be used with any windows tablet?


----------



## nilblo

Works with Dell Canvas 27" Pen & Touch-screen. When Surface Dial is paired (Bluetooth) you go to "Settings" \ "Devices" \"Wheel" - and customize behavior of the Dial thingy. I know of people using Dial with Cintiq..


----------



## davi

Going back to the issue of StaffPad and its libraries. 

I wonder why major companies such as Spitfire, Cine, or Orchestral Tools, have decided to invest in specific products for StaffPad, turning it into the most proficient tool for orchestral playback... while Dorico, the claimed future of notation, still depends on NotePerformer for its best playback. And no, NP in Dorico doesn't come _close_ to the demos I've been listening from StaffPad.


----------



## dcoscina

davi said:


> Going back to the issue of StaffPad and its libraries.
> 
> I wonder why major companies such as Spitfire, Cine, or Orchestral Tools, have decided to invest in specific products for StaffPad, turning it into the most proficient tool for orchestral playback... while Dorico, the claimed future of notation, still depends on NotePerformer for its best playback. And no, NP in Dorico doesn't come _close_ to the demos I've been listening from StaffPad.


That is a very interesting question. I think with SP, DWH took the mantle of re programming these samples to work with his SP engine. So the work is being done on his end. Perhaps Dorico is really focussed strictly on the notation-programming end and don't have enough familiarity with programming sample libraries to work seamlessly with their notation engine.... I dunno frankly. But I'm glad I jumped on the SP boat earlier this year because my productivity has gone through the roof.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I wonder if Steinberg will do something with Dorico & Iconica.....


----------



## davi

dcoscina said:


> That is a very interesting question. I think with SP, DWH took the mantle of re programming these samples to work with his SP engine. So the work is being done on his end. Perhaps Dorico is really focussed strictly on the notation-programming end and don't have enough familiarity with programming sample libraries to work seamlessly with their notation engine.... I dunno frankly. But I'm glad I jumped on the SP boat earlier this year because my productivity has gone through the roof.


I think Steinberg may be indulging in the idea that no one can do everything at the highest level, and they already see Dorico as the best in notation (although they still have to fix many things, in my opinion, and some others are cumbersome "a la" Sibelius or Finale), so they aren't putting much focus on playback. Therefore your statement about productivity is interesting too, since most people here claim to have problems with SP for anything else than "sketching". Is it really proficient and fast for big, complex orchestral notation work?

If that were the case, then it would mean that a small team like the one at SP achieved better results at the whole package (notation+playback) than a large organization like Steinberg...


----------



## dcoscina

davi said:


> I think Steinberg may be indulging in the idea that no one can do everything at the highest level, and they already see Dorico as the best in notation (although they still have to fix many things, in my opinion, and some others are cumbersome "a la" Sibelius or Finale), so they aren't putting much focus on playback. Therefore your statement about productivity is interesting too, since most people here claim to have problems with SP for anything else than "sketching". Is it really proficient and fast for big, complex orchestral notation work?
> 
> If that were the case, then it would mean that a small team like the one at SP achieved better results at the whole package (notation+playback) than a large organization like Steinberg...


I wrote a 7 minute concert work for large orchestra only using Staffpad and it did fine. It took a few weeks, but that was chipping away after hours and not 8 hrs per day mind you. Below is the second movement of a 2 movement work.


----------



## davi

Very nice music, and it looks like it needed some hours. So, what is your take on some users' complaints about inputting music, recognition errors, etc.? And, are there any notation things that can't be done? Tweaking is what takes most of my time, since I work on the DAW and then export the XML to the notation program.


----------



## dcoscina

davi said:


> Very nice music, and it looks like it needed some hours. So, what is your take on some users' complaints about inputting music, recognition errors, etc.? And, are there any notation things that can't be done? Tweaking is what takes most of my time, since I work on the DAW and then export the XML to the notation program.


Everyone has their own needs when it comes to composing. Those on tight timelines probably would find Staffpad too slow. Those who actually come from a notation background also might be frustrated as the input requires a slightly different approach and adaptive habits to get the most out of it. I usually enter notes within the staff and drag them to the pitch positions I need. I use transposition a lot to help. I embrace Staffpad for what it is and not lament what it isn’t. 

no disrespect to anyone, but our society has largely turned into a massive bitchfest about what is wrong with everything in the world. I just adapt and work around to achieve what I hear in my head. For me, there aren’t too many negatives to this app. It’s been something I’ve wanted for decades and I’m enjoying its benefits now that it’s here.

that’s my own opinion and experience. I’ve barely turned on MP 6,1 since I got Staffpad.


----------



## davi

Thank you for your input. I too have been searching for the final solution, and that has to do more with avoiding awkward procedures for simple things (Sibelius, Finale, some Dorico) than with spending extra time, if needed, as long as I don't have to learn a thousand shortcuts or dig in hidden menus. Adapting to an _organic_ way of doing things I don't consider a problem. I also waited for this for a long time, I wish I had a large 24" screen to try it out, and really compare to my current workflow.

I don't know what MP 6,1 is.


----------



## dcoscina

davi said:


> Thank you for your input. I too have been searching for the final solution, and that has to do more with avoiding awkward procedures for simple things (Sibelius, Finale, some Dorico) than with spending extra time, if needed, as long as I don't have to learn a thousand shortcuts or dig in hidden menus. Adapting to an _organic_ way of doing things I don't consider a problem. I also waited for this for a long time, I wish I had a large 24" screen to try it out, and really compare to my current workflow.
> 
> I don't know what MP 6,1 is.


Mac Pro trashcan ver 6,1 
And yeah I think Staffpad is a rather intuitive interface. If you are comfortable with notation but don’t want to duck around for hours to write out something, I think Staffpad accomplishes this quite well once you become attuned to its way of doing things. And the playback kills anything else notation based.


----------



## davi

Ah, good. I think I really need to try this. Thanks for your insight!


----------



## dcoscina

Michael Antrum said:


> I wonder if Steinberg will do something with Dorico & Iconica.....


Iconica doesn’t get close to the expression DWH has gotten within S


davi said:


> Ah, good. I think I really need to try this. Thanks for your insight!


I hope you get as much out of it as some of us have here. It's not the be-all, end-all for everyone. We all have different requirements. I'm in a position where I'm either working on projects with very long deadlines (games in particular) or else concert works. Both allow me to compose in Staffpad. I cannot really go back to DAW orchestral composing for the most part. It's a royal pain in the ass trying to achieve the same results as I do in Staffpad, especially for dynamic writing. For endless repeating figures or ostinati, well, I guess DAws are fine, but for lots of meter changes, complex rhythmic figures, I cannot achieve what I hear in my head that easily in DAWs. Some can however. Andy Blaney is a genius at it. But not I.....


----------



## OleJoergensen

“Petit four”- moderato espressivo elegante.
A short romantic orchestral composition.
My 2. gen ipad pro, can’t handle scroll in play with orchestral template, so it is the first few bars score.


----------



## robcs

dcoscina said:


> Mac Pro trashcan ver 6,1
> And yeah I think Staffpad is a rather intuitive interface. If you are comfortable with notation but don’t want to duck around for hours to write out something, I think Staffpad accomplishes this quite well once you become attuned to its way of doing things. And the playback kills anything else notation based.



I wonder how Staffpad would work with a 24" touch/pen screen attached to the iPad  now THAT would be a closing workstation!


----------



## dcoscina

robcs said:


> I wonder how Staffpad would work with a 24" touch/pen screen attached to the iPad  now THAT would be a closing workstation!


Good question. I wonder how much a 24" ipad Pro would cost? Probably $5000 for 16gb version. Or maybe 256mb. LOL. I use Apple but I'm not a fanboy. They nickle and dime their customers to death. Logic being the one exception.


----------



## davi

dcoscina said:


> Iconica doesn’t get close to the expression DWH has gotten within S
> 
> I hope you get as much out of it as some of us have here. It's not the be-all, end-all for everyone. We all have different requirements. I'm in a position where I'm either working on projects with very long deadlines (games in particular) or else concert works. Both allow me to compose in Staffpad. I cannot really go back to DAW orchestral composing for the most part. It's a royal pain in the ass trying to achieve the same results as I do in Staffpad, especially for dynamic writing. For endless repeating figures or ostinati, well, I guess DAws are fine, but for lots of meter changes, complex rhythmic figures, I cannot achieve what I hear in my head that easily in DAWs. Some can however. Andy Blaney is a genius at it. But not I.....


I am proficient enough at the most complex stuff with DAW, except the undoable extended techniques that most libraries don't list, but I use DP and have done it for decades. I just need a notation program to which I can export my MIDI as XML, and finish there my score tweaking (detailed dynamics and articulations, etc.) before creating parts. But I find a realistic playback at that point essential. And NotePerformer is too jarring.


----------



## jonnybutter

dcoscina said:


> no disrespect to anyone, but our society has largely turned into a massive bitchfest about what is wrong with everything in the world. I just adapt and work around to achieve what I hear in my head. For me, there aren’t too many negatives to this app. It’s been something I’ve wanted for decades and I’m enjoying its benefits now that it’s here.
> 
> that’s my own opinion and experience. I’ve barely turned on MP 6,1 since I got Staffpad.



I have had Staffpad for about 12 days, and I'm excited by what it is now, and more so by its promise - but I also find it very frustrating at times. The handwriting recognition can be weird and there is no real recourse if you have a problem with that. I've watched all the videos and read the manual and spent quite a bit of time just practicing on it, and I still get stuck. Since there's no way to know what it's not understanding, you have to re-write until it understands or you give up. It also doesn't do atonal, which is a big problem for me, although they say that's on the way, and I believe them.

I think how quickly you take to it has a certain amount to do with what kind of music you're writing. Interesting that you find the playback to be better than any notation app. To me it doesn't seem better than Dorico 3.x in that respect (maybe a little worse, tbh). I have a new iPad pro, so I don't have a hardware problem. 

Oh well, different ppl have different experiences. I feel like it's an app on the cusp of greatness, but not quite there yet. I get a fair amount of crashes and BETA-behavior. I look forward to the ensuing iterations, though. I think it's going to be fantastic, and I already use it in conjunction with a DAW and Dorico. It's wonderful to get out of the studio and just write, and editing on it can be wonderful. And the 'pending bar' concept is brilliant. The things it does well it does *very* well, and conceptually it really is brilliant. I would have appreciated more polish rather than all the add-on library offers and a few of the slick but slightly gimmicky features. But it's going to be great if they keep at it.


----------



## robcs

dcoscina said:


> Good question. I wonder how much a 24" ipad Pro would cost? Probably $5000 for 16gb version. Or maybe 256mb. LOL. I use Apple but I'm not a fanboy. They nickle and dime their customers to death. Logic being the one exception.



Oh I wasn't thinking of a 24" iPad. 

$250 for a Mimics G4, say another $250 for the monitor...


----------



## Rory

dcoscina said:


> I use Apple but I'm not a fanboy. They nickle and dime their customers to death. Logic being the one exception.



I've never paid for a single update to MacOS, Logic, GarageBand, Final Cut Pro X, Compressor, Numbers, Pages or Keynote.

In 2020, my annual cost for Logic and Final Cut works out to about $30 each, and for Compressor $7, and it will be less in 2021. There was no charge for the rest in the first place.


----------



## robcs

dcoscina said:


> I wrote a 7 minute concert work for large orchestra only using Staffpad and it did fine. It took a few weeks, but that was chipping away after hours and not 8 hrs per day mind you. Below is the second movement of a 2 movement work.





very nice! Which library did you use for that?


----------



## dcoscina

robcs said:


> very nice! Which library did you use for that?


All Berlin libraries.


----------



## dcoscina

jonnybutter said:


> I have had Staffpad for about 12 days, and I'm excited by what it is now, and more so by its promise - but I also find it very frustrating at times. The handwriting recognition can be weird and there is no real recourse if you have a problem with that. I've watched all the videos and read the manual and spent quite a bit of time just practicing on it, and I still get stuck. Since there's no way to know what it's not understanding, you have to re-write until it understands or you give up. It also doesn't do atonal, which is a big problem for me, although they say that's on the way, and I believe them.
> 
> I think how quickly you take to it has a certain amount to do with what kind of music you're writing. Interesting that you find the playback to be better than any notation app. To me it doesn't seem better than Dorico 3.x in that respect (maybe a little worse, tbh). I have a new iPad pro, so I don't have a hardware problem.
> 
> Oh well, different ppl have different experiences. I feel like it's an app on the cusp of greatness, but not quite there yet. I get a fair amount of crashes and BETA-behavior. I look forward to the ensuing iterations, though. I think it's going to be fantastic, and I already use it in conjunction with a DAW and Dorico. It's wonderful to get out of the studio and just write, and editing on it can be wonderful. And the 'pending bar' concept is brilliant. The things it does well it does *very* well, and conceptually it really is brilliant. I would have appreciated more polish rather than all the add-on library offers and a few of the slick but slightly gimmicky features. But it's going to be great if they keep at it.


Hmm. It does atonal for me.


----------



## jonnybutter

dcoscina said:


> Hmm. It does atonal for me.




You can write any notes you want using lots of accidentals, but the notation is locked to diatonic; if you select a note or notes and drag up or down, it/they adhere to whatever scale/key you are in. That is a big drawback. If you think in terms of pitch classes, etc. you don't want to be in a key. And I think being free from scales is useful for media composers too. Imagine using a DAW and being forced to choose a key! Imagine selecting notes in the piano roll to move and they won't move chromatically...

To be fair, Finale was that way and so was Sibelius. But - to be fair again - they sucked in that sense. I think Schoenberg started dispensing with key signatures in about 1910, and Western music has moved on from there. 100+ years ought to be enough time to take non-diatonic music seriously as an *option* at least. Maybe it's a bear to code, but..c'est la vie! Dorico does atonal, thank god. I wrote to Staffpad about it and they promised that a fix is in the works. Let's hope it's soon

EDIT: ah, I didn't see that you attached music there! Sorry. Nice job! You are composing free atonal there, but you still have to deal with a key (with accidentals). It's a PITA. Glad you make it work for you.


----------



## dcoscina

jonnybutter said:


> You can write any notes you want using lots of accidentals, but the notation is locked to diatonic; if you select a note or notes and drag up or down, it/they adhere to whatever scale/key you are in. That is a big drawback. If you think in terms of pitch classes, etc. you don't want to be in a key. And I think being free from scales is useful for media composers too. Imagine using a DAW and being forced to choose a key! Imagine selecting notes in the piano roll to move and they won't move chromatically...
> 
> To be fair, Finale was that way and so was Sibelius. But - to be fair again - they sucked in that sense. I think Schoenberg started dispensing with key signatures in about 1910, and Western music has moved on from there. 100+ years ought to be enough time to take non-diatonic music seriously as an *option* at least. Maybe it's a bear to code, but..c'est la vie! Dorico does atonal, thank god. I wrote to Staffpad about it and they promised that a fix is in the works. Let's hope it's soon
> 
> EDIT: ah, I didn't see that you attached music there! Sorry. Nice job! You are composing free atonal there, but you still have to deal with a key (with accidentals). It's a PITA. Glad you make it work for you.


Yes, you are correct that SP doesn't address quarter or micro tones. And if it did, it probably would have to re-pitch existing samples that would most likely render it not as good sounding. I know that Orchestral Tools has some interesting brass FX in the Horn expansion set which is cool. And I'd love to be able to do aleatoric sections too. but it's a lot of expect of an app that is pretty much in its infancy on iOS. I also gather from talking with DWH that Staffpad is really being developed more aggressively because of what iOS is able to do for the app. So, I'd give it time. It's not perfect but it's exceedingly good for what it does do at this time.


----------



## wcreed51

Hi David, do you mean "do for the app" technically or in terms of user base (financially)?


----------



## jonnybutter

No, not quarter tones! Diatonic means a conventional scale, with a tonic, dominant, etc. Atonal means there's no tonal hierarchy - no key signature. For those of you reading, if you're looking to buy Staffpad, just know that you are stuck in conventional keys at the moment. They promised to address this, and I take them at their word. cheers.


----------



## dcoscina

wcreed51 said:


> Hi David, do you mean "do for the app" technically or in terms of user base (financially)?


I thing Staffpad allows composers to realize their orchestral pieces very accurately compared to any other notation programs on the market insofar as playback and expression. It still has a way to go for the sheer amount of features DAWs and full notation programs possess but as I've mentioned numerous times, it's still in its infancy for iOS.


----------



## dcoscina

jonnybutter said:


> No, not quarter tones! Diatonic means a conventional scale, with a tonic, dominant, etc. Atonal means there's no tonal hierarchy - no key signature. For those of you reading, if you're looking to buy Staffpad, just know that you are stuck in conventional keys at the moment. They promised to address this, and I take them at their word. cheers.


Oh so you are talking about other scale systems from different styles of music. Right?


----------



## wcreed51

I think he means without key, as opposed to C major.


----------



## jonnybutter

wcreed51 said:


> I think he means without key, as opposed to C major.



Yes. Atonal writing is a hundred+ years old. I don't know why this is so exotic to anyone . As I said before, on most DAWs you *can* choose a key if you want, but by default everything is chromatic. Imagine if you could *only* move MIDI notes within a conventional scale. It would be ridiculous (and not just because of drum maps, key switches, etc). It's just as stupid to not have a chromatic option on a notation app, IMO. I know you can transpose on Staffpad without changing the key, but unlike the rest of the app, it's very fiddly.

EDIT:

It must be easier to code to leave out the atonal option because, as I said before, both Finale and Sibelius had no atonal option. Maybe it's easier to have it one way or the other, but not both? I think on a DAW, having keys is a feature that was added on later.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

jonnybutter said:


> Yes. Atonal writing is a hundred+ years old. I don't know why this is so exotic to anyone .



In my experience, most people on this forum either write professionally in the commercial space or aspire to. Not all of them, but what seems to me to be a vast majority. (I'm not making a statement about "composers" as a whole-- just what I've run into here on VIC). 

While there is use for atonal writing in that space, it is quite niche and often situational, and honestly, kind of "out of style" in the era of the Zimmer synthstinato style of scoring. StaffPad is written with this segment of the market in mind at the moment, but I imagine they will begin trying to add more "academic"/"concert" features in the future. 

I agree that having the option to change the "drag a note" feature from diatonic to fully chromatic would be a nice option to have-- worth suggesting to the StaffPad folks: https://staffpad.zendesk.com/hc/en-us


----------



## Rory

curtisschweitzer said:


> StaffPad is written with this segment of the market in mind at the moment



It is? Has StaffPad said that?


----------



## wcreed51

Finale and Sibelius have added this only recently


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Rory said:


> It is? Has StaffPad said that?



I mean, it seems obvious to me that it is-- hence 3rd party libraries from commercial sample developers who typically aim things at that market segment, the lack of features targeting more modern concert works, etc. 

I don't think that's their *only* focus, but it seems like their *current* focus


----------



## jonnybutter

Rory said:


> It is? Has StaffPad said that?



I suggested it to them and they said they were going to implement an atonal option. There wasn't a firm date, but he did say it is coming.

I think people would like the option, even if they are writing more basic music, harmonically. I write for media too, and I often don't use a key, or use a mode, or something else. Our modern ears are pretty used to atonality.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

jonnybutter said:


> I suggested it to them and they said they were going to implement an atonal option. There wasn't a firm date, but he did say it is coming.
> 
> I think people would like the option, even if they are writing more basic music, harmonically. I write for media too, and I often don't use a key, or use a mode, or something else. Our modern ears are pretty used to atonality.



This is good news, glad to see it is on the roadmap.


----------



## jonnybutter

curtisschweitzer said:


> Zimmer synthstinato style of scoring...While there is use for atonal writing in that space, it is quite niche



'Zimmer synthstinato.' Nice. But I actually think it's the other way around - that not allowing atonal writing makes the app more niche - stuffs it into a pretty small mold. There's a reason the big notation apps have it. There must be a reason it was left out of Staffpad - presumably it's not trivially easy to implement. Perhaps no-key is a second tier feature that they always had the intention to get to. Can't blame them I suppose, but *I* don't think it's a second tier feature, esp. at this late date.

Oh well, wait we will.


----------



## jonnybutter

wcreed51 said:


> Finale and Sibelius have added this only recently



Yes, I see that now - thanks, Dorico.


----------



## dcoscina

I must be missing something here... I write with no keys and just use accidentals in Staffpad... In fact it defaults to no key sig....

Sorry, maybe the migraine I have today is making it hard to understand what you jonnybutter


----------



## jonnybutter

dcoscina said:


> I must be missing something here... I write with no keys and just use accidentals in Staffpad... In fact it defaults to no key sig....
> 
> Sorry, maybe the migraine I have today is making it hard to understand what you jonnybutter



If you have a migraine, please just tend to that, my friend. It's not that big a deal. 

If you are wondering, the default key signature in Staffpad is the key of C, which is no sharps or flats. If you write in that you are writing in a key. The key of C is a key just like any other key - D flat, G major, any of them. It's not the same as *no key*. 

Take care of your health! Then do some reading about it when you feel like it. Take care.


----------



## marius_dm

Well, the (only?) benefit I can see from the “no key” functionality would be that when you drag a note up and down it would transpose chromatically instead of in a major scale or whatever.
If Staffpad would add that it would be great.

EDIT: after thinking about it, I would love to be able to drag notes up and down chromatically even when I’m in a key.Having a toggle between chromatic and key-constrained drag would be great.


----------



## jonnybutter

marius_dm said:


> Well, the (only?) benefit I can see from the “no key” functionality would be that when you drag a note up and down it would transpose chromatically instead of in a major scale or whatever.
> If Staffpad would add that it would be great.
> 
> EDIT: after thinking about it, I would love to be able to drag notes up and down chromatically even when I’m in a key.Having a toggle between chromatic and key-constrained drag would be great.




Yes, a toggle would be great for writing in a key! I love that idea. But it's not just about dragging individual notes (and chords of course) chromatically, although that would be fantastic. It's also about entering the notes you want and that's it. A G Sharp is a G Sharp, period. A B natural is always a B natural. You write the pitch(es) you want and that's it. (No C flats either). It's a different way of thinking.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, a latching toggle is all you would really need. If you wanted to write atonally, just latched it in the key of C. Since it's a tablet there's really no key command, so it would have to be on the menu. I love that idea.


----------



## dcoscina

jonnybutter said:


> Yes, a toggle would be great for writing in a key! I love that idea. But it's not just about dragging individual notes (and chords of course) chromatically, although that would be fantastic. It's also about entering the notes you want and that's it. A G Sharp is a G Sharp, period. A B natural is always a B natural. You write the pitch(es) you want and that's it. (No C flats either). It's a different way of thinking.
> 
> EDIT: Now that I think about it, a latching toggle is all you would really need. If you wanted to write atonally, just latched it in the key of C. Since it's a tablet there's really no key command, so it would have to be on the menu. I love that idea.


Oh now I see what you mean.


----------



## Saxer

I would love a chromatic toggle of written notes too. And a simple respell up (to sharp) and down (to flat) button to change an Eb to D# or vice versa.


----------



## davi

SP doesn't have enharmonic respelling?


----------



## Saxer

davi said:


> SP doesn't have enharmonic respelling?


Normally you just write a G# or Ab by hand. It's only useful when editing the pitch of an already written note. And at the moment this happens diatonically only. So respelling would only useful if chromatic pitch editing will be implemented. But you can change a note in C major to G and write a # left to it.


----------



## brandowalk

Saxer said:


> I would love a chromatic toggle of written notes too. And a simple respell up (to sharp) and down (to flat) button to change an Eb to D# or vice versa.


That would be nice. You might send your suggestion to their zendesk. This and easy toggling of dynamics (dragging pencil up or down) would be really useful. I believe DWH mentioned the latter in his interview with David C. Not sure if this is in coming update but keeping fingers crossed.


----------



## dcoscina

I would also like note duration changes. I find having to change a note duration by erasing the then writing the note shorter or longer value to break up my creative flow. It's especially time consuming when you are changing a tied note... erasing the note can also delete the dynamic info below. So yeah, that would be a huge time saver!

Maybe something in the eraser feature could be added where double-tapping the pencil while in eraser mode can bring up note lengths or something... I dunno... just spit-balling.


----------



## wcreed51

They have a Zendesk site?


----------



## brandowalk

wcreed51 said:


> They have a Zendesk site?








StaffPad Help







staffpad.zendesk.com


----------



## wcreed51

Oh that. There's a place to post suggestions there?


----------



## brandowalk

wcreed51 said:


> Oh that. There's a place to post suggestions there?


click on "contact us" email icon. Use this to report issues, questions or suggestions. They are good at responding.


----------



## robcs

jonnybutter said:


> If you have a migraine, please just tend to that, my friend. It's not that big a deal.
> 
> If you are wondering, the default key signature in Staffpad is the key of C, which is no sharps or flats. If you write in that you are writing in a key. The key of C is a key just like any other key - D flat, G major, any of them. It's not the same as *no key*.



Isn't the real challenge the transposing instruments?

In most scoring programs, if the key for the score is set to concert CMaj, it'll automatically insert a DMaj key signature for the Bb instruments, AMaj for the Eb instruments, and so on. In atonal music, all the staves should have no key signature, regardless of what the instrument is doing when it plays.


----------



## jonnybutter

robcs said:


> Isn't the real challenge the transposing instruments?
> 
> In most scoring programs, if the key for the score is set to concert CMaj, it'll automatically insert a DMaj key signature for the Bb instruments, AMaj for the Eb instruments, and so on. In atonal music, all the staves should have no key signature, regardless of what the instrument is doing when it plays.



Hmm. I don't see what the challenge is. Correct me if I'm missing something, but transposing instruments would just be transposed in parts by the appropriate interval, no? (i.e. still without a key signature). That's how it works in the real world.


----------



## robcs

But that's the point: they should, but they don't. That's why simply putting no key signature (which, as you pointed out is really the key signature of C Major) doesn't work - the editor has to explicitly support having no key signature. We're agreeing loudly


----------



## jonnybutter

robcs said:


> But that's the point: they should, but they don't. That's why simply putting no key signature (which, as you pointed out is really the key signature of C Major) doesn't work - the editor has to explicitly support having no key signature. We're agreeing loudly



Ah, I see.  Yes. They actually don't do that anymore if you are working atonally - at least so I've been told. I use only Dorico these days, but I learned in this thread that Finale and Sibelius have added atonal capability too. A great thing!


----------



## davi

I haven't seen SP in action and admit I don't quite understand all this about accidentals. So, say I write C D E F F#, and then later I decide I want it to be C D E F Gb. If I cannot just respell the accidental, how do I do it?


----------



## dcoscina

davi said:


> I haven't seen SP in action and admit I don't quite understand all this about accidentals. So, say I write C D E F F#, and then later I decide I want it to be C D E F Gb. If I cannot just respell the accidental, how do I do it?


You would have to move the F to G, remove the sharp and draw in a flat.


----------



## davi

Oh well, that's not such a big deal... A bit slow and inconvenient. I guess the problem is not being able to do it in one click, nor enharmonize multiple notes at the same time.


----------



## dcoscina

davi said:


> Oh well, that's not such a big deal... A bit slow and inconvenient. I guess the problem is not being able to do it in one click, nor enharmonize multiple notes at the same time.


Maybe a future update will allow users to do Enharmonic shifts...


----------



## jonnybutter

brandowalk said:


> click on "contact us" email icon. Use this to report issues, questions or suggestions. They are good at responding.



They are indeed very good at responding.


----------



## wcreed51

Yes, I've exchanged emails with David, but don't want to flood them with suggestions, especially if others have already made the same ones. Was hoping the was a place to post them on their website...


----------



## Mymind

Hi guys, does someone here use paperlike with an ipad? How is the feel and is it not difficult to erase using the hard press function? I really love and use this function so I want to be sure the paperlike feel won’t alter it. Thank you.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Mymind said:


> Hi guys, does someone here use paperlike with an ipad? How is the feel and is it not difficult to erase using the hard press function? I really love and use this function so I want to be sure the paperlike feel won’t alter it. Thank you.


I have had one on order since late April. Paperlike has run into shipping difficulties because of Covid 19. I recently got an email saying that they hope to ship this month. After I get it, I will post about its function within StaffPad here.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

Jett Hitt said:


> I have had one on order since late April. Paperlike has run into shipping difficulties because of Covid 19. I recently got an email saying that they hope to ship this month. After I get it, I will post about its function within StaffPad here.


If you are in the US, you can easily get it through Amazon.


----------



## dcoscina

Mymind said:


> Hi guys, does someone here use paperlike with an ipad? How is the feel and is it not difficult to erase using the hard press function? I really love and use this function so I want to be sure the paperlike feel won’t alter it. Thank you.


I have a Paperlike screen protector and it’s great! Yeah it diminishes the lovely 2020 iPad Pro display but I would rather protect my iPad and use it for composing instead of watching videos which I use my older Air2 for anyway


----------



## Jett Hitt

Tilt & Flow said:


> If you are in the US, you can easily get it through Amazon.


Beware, the ones on Amazon are cheap knockoffs. Paperlike is made in Europe and ships from Europe.


----------



## Mymind

dcoscina said:


> I have a Paperlike screen protector and it’s great! Yeah it diminishes the lovely 2020 iPad Pro display but I would rather protect my iPad and use it for composing instead of watching videos which I use my older Air2 for anyway


Do you use the hard press function to erase ? Does it work well with the paperlike ?


----------



## dcoscina

Mymind said:


> Do you use the hard press function to erase ? Does it work well with the paperlike ?


I find it's ok but I tend to use the eraser button instead. I don't want to wear out my nib on my Apple pencil prematurely


----------



## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> Beware, the ones on Amazon are cheap knockoffs. Paperlike is made in Europe and ships from Europe.


Actually I got mine from Amazon and it works quite well for me.


----------



## dcoscina

Incidentally, I have started my own StaffPad User's Group forum if anyone is interested. While it is not moderated by David William Hearn, I've made him aware of its existence and he said he will try to stop in from time to time. 





__





StaffPad User Group - Index


StaffPad User Group - Index




staffpadusergroup.createaforum.com





It's not as robust as this site (not by a long shot) but aside from the FB group which is limited to people using that platform (I plan to get off it shortly) I thought it was a good idea to create a dedicated site. It's not a charge site and I hope I'm not breaking any rules by mentioning it here.... 

If so, I can delete this post.


----------



## MisteR

Thanks! Although to be honest I kind of wish we could have a sub forum here. Seems like a good home for it. Also, less work for you.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

MisteR said:


> Thanks! Although to be honest I kind of wish we could have a sub forum here. Seems like a good home for it. Also, less work for you.


Agreed, we need a sub forum, even if it has to cover, for fairness, all various pen-input apps as well as StaffPad. SP isn't a DAW, and it isn't Notation software. How about it, @Mike Greene ?


----------



## Tilt & Flow

Jett Hitt said:


> Beware, the ones on Amazon are cheap knockoffs. Paperlike is made in Europe and ships from Europe.


Ah, did not know that!


----------



## Mike Greene

PaulBrimstone said:


> Agreed, we need a sub forum, even if it has to cover, for fairness, all various pen-input apps as well as StaffPad. SP isn't a DAW, and it isn't Notation software. How about it, @Mike Greene ?


Wow, this thread is almost as long as a Spitfire teaser!  Apparently there's a lot of interest in this, so here you go:
StaffPad Subforum


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Mike Greene said:


> Wow, this thread is almost as long as a Spitfire teaser!  Apparently there's a lot of interest in this, so here you go:
> StaffPad Subforum


Thank you @Mike Greene !


----------



## MisteR

Thanks!


----------



## MisteR

Perhaps this thread should be moved to the new sub forum? Thoughts?


----------



## PaulBrimstone

MisteR said:


> Perhaps this thread should be moved to the new sub forum? Thoughts?


Yes, I was thinking that. @Mike Greene could you move this please?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Mymind said:


> Do you use the hard press function to erase ? Does it work well with the paperlike ?



if you have an Apple Pencil 2, you can just double tap on the pencil to toggle the eraser on and off...

I also have a Paperlike on my IPad Pro 2020. I find it makes it so much easier to write with the pencil as it doesn’t skate on the glass....


----------



## Michael Antrum

Jett Hitt said:


> Beware, the ones on Amazon are cheap knockoffs. Paperlike is made in Europe and ships from Europe.



Genuine Paperlike is sold by Amazon.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Michael Antrum said:


> Genuine Paperlike is sold by Amazon.


Hi @Michael Antrum could you please provide a link? I can't find the genuine item on amazon.com or amazon.co.uk. Ta.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Michael Antrum said:


> Genuine Paperlike is sold by Amazon.


This is simply not true. The ones sold on Amazon are made by ZOEGAA. Paperlike is the actual name of the company, not just the product. If you go to Paperlike.com, you will see that they are not even shipping to the US until July, and they cost more than twice as much as the ones on Amazon.

Edit, I did just find one genuine https://www.amazon.com/Paperlike-Nanodots-Screen-Protector-Compatible/dp/B0824422FG/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=ZOEGAA&qid=1592615949&s=electronics&sr=1-11 (Paperlike) product on Amazon for a small screen.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Currently out of stock though....


----------



## Michael Antrum

Jett Hitt said:


> This is simply not true. The ones sold on Amazon are made by ZOEGAA. Paperlike is the actual name of the company, not just the product. If you go to Paperlike.com, you will see that they are not even shipping to the US until July, and they cost more than twice as much as the ones on Amazon.
> 
> Edit, I did just find one genuine https://www.amazon.com/Paperlike-Nanodots-Screen-Protector-Compatible/dp/B0824422FG/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=ZOEGAA&qid=1592615949&s=electronics&sr=1-11 (Paperlike) product on Amazon for a small screen.



Yes it is true. I ordered from Amazon, had problems fitting and when I contacted Paperlike they sent me out a replacement after seeing my receipt.

They have awesome customer service by the way.....


----------



## Jett Hitt

Michael Antrum said:


> Yes it is true. I ordered from Amazon, had problems fitting and when I contacted Paperlike they sent me out a replacement after seeing my receipt.
> 
> They have awesome customer service by the way.....


You're right, they have awesome service. So my whole point here, and perhaps I should have clarified further, is that if you go to Amazon and search for Paperlike, you will get a result called Paperlike, but it is not from the same company that you and I know. Jan (at Paperlike) sent out a video explaining that they were unable to restock Amazon because they ran out of 12.9 stock and couldn't get any more made because of Covid 19. And apparently even after finally getting the product manufactured, the postal service refused to let them ship the product. So I return to my original statement: You cannot buy it on Amazon, and if you think you've found it, it is a knock-off. It may return in July.


----------



## Michael Antrum

It comes up for me, but perhaps that's because I ordered it in the past....Amazon search results can be, ahem, variable.....


----------



## Mymind

Michael Antrum said:


> if you have an Apple Pencil 2, you can just double tap on the pencil to toggle the eraser on and off...
> 
> I also have a Paperlike on my IPad Pro 2020. I find it makes it so much easier to write with the pencil as it doesn’t skate on the glass....


Actually I like to use the double tap to trigger the lasso tool. And also I really like the hard press function to erase. Once you find out how to use it appropriately, it is very useful and it doesn’t need to press very hardly to trigger the eraser just a sufficient pression. I hope the paperlike will be ok with that as I just ordered it yesterday.


----------



## dcoscina

Mymind said:


> Actually I like to use the double tap to trigger the lasso tool. And also I really like the hard press function to erase. Once you find out how to use it appropriately, it is very useful and it doesn’t need to press very hardly to trigger the eraser just a sufficient pression. I hope the paperlike will be ok with that as I just ordered it yesterday.


I haven’t had encountered any issues with press to erase and the Paperlike screen protector myself


----------



## jonnybutter

wcreed51 said:


> Yes, I've exchanged emails with David, but don't want to flood them with suggestions, especially if others have already made the same ones. Was hoping the was a place to post them on their website...



I wish there was a forum or something like that. Would be to their advantage and ours. I also don't want to bug the crew too much - they are surely busy enough as it is. I sent one, longish, review/feature request list (which didn't need a detailed reply), and a second email about a specific problem I'm having with importing midi files (not working very well lately in Logic pro x! Anybody else have that problem?).


----------



## jadi

jonnybutter said:


> I wish there was a forum or something like that. Would be to their advantage and ours. I also don't want to bug the crew too much - they are surely busy enough as it is. I sent one, longish, review/feature request list (which didn't need a detailed reply), and a second email about a specific problem I'm having with importing midi files (not working very well lately in Logic pro x! Anybody else have that problem?).


Midi import export didn't work wel with logic. I got the advies to use music xml. They als solved some bugs with that format and now it is working all right


----------



## jonnybutter

jadi said:


> Midi import export didn't work wel with logic. I got the advies to use music xml. They als solved some bugs with that format and now it is working all right



Thanks Jadi. I should have thought of that! Of course it make sense.


EDIT: Thanks to Jadi, this problem is solved for me. Music .xml works perfectly. Just prepare the export carefully in the score editor - which is kind of an obvious idea anyway - and it all works.


----------



## Mercutio

I am just new here and new to StaffPad. I have a question about documentation for the sample libraries. I recently watched the tutorial video to cineperc and at 19:38 there was mentioned that it is possible to write "sweep" or "rub" as text above the stave to activate some special articulations of the frame drums.
i watched different tutorial videos for different sample libraries and there were often mentioned similar tipps for articulations. Are there any ressources available (manuals, documentations) where one can get extended information about these add-on libraries? (Because the documentation of the Kontakt origins is not very helpful, since StaffPad uses a complete different approach).

Thank you in advance
Axel

PS: I am sorry, if I missed a posting where this question was already answered. But as a father of a young son time is limited


----------



## wcreed51

This information is conspicuously lacking...

I think what you're talking about here are called instrument presets. They appear on the context menu when you right click on the staff.


----------



## stevebarden

Mercutio said:


> I am just new here and new to StaffPad. I have a question about documentation for the sample libraries. I recently watched the tutorial video to cineperc and at 19:38 there was mentioned that it is possible to write "sweep" or "rub" as text above the stave to activate some special articulations of the frame drums.
> i watched different tutorial videos for different sample libraries and there were often mentioned similar tipps for articulations. Are there any ressources available (manuals, documentations) where one can get extended information about these add-on libraries? (Because the documentation of the Kontakt origins is not very helpful, since StaffPad uses a complete different approach).
> 
> Thank you in advance
> Axel
> 
> PS: I am sorry, if I missed a posting where this question was already answered. But as a father of a young son time is limited



I didn't know about these particular instructions. But here it is. Very cool!


----------



## Mercutio

wcreed51 said:


> This information is conspicuously lacking...
> 
> I think what you're talking about here are called instrument presets. They appear on the context menu when you right click on the staff.


That's not what I was talking about - but that was something what I learned too in the walkthrough video I mentioned.


----------



## brandowalk

Mercutio said:


> That's not what I was talking about - but that was something what I learned too in the walkthrough video I mentioned.


I requested such a reference guide for how to trigger articulations to StaffPad's zendesk a while back. I didn't get a clear response on my suggestion, but other dialog suggests they are focusing on system improvements and bugs at this time. Some of these improvements apparently will unlock some articulations - so my guess is they are waiting to do more documentation.

Like you mentioned, you can learn many of the tips by watching videos of scores as well as walkthroughs posted in the store demos as well as YouTube. Unfortunately, learning is a bit of trial and error as libraries (and even instruments within the libraries) sometimes behave slightly different.

Here is my unofficial list of articulation triggers and tips. If others are aware of more, please share and add on. This is a bit messy, I know, and one day I may cleanup and put in a spreadsheet. 

General:
- staccato (dots) works for short notes or indicate "staccato" or "stacc" for the section.
- sometimes the stacc are too harsh sounding, instead use a tenuto with a dot to give some separation of notes
- staccatissimo articulation for slightly shorter or stronger short note. _Unfortunately I find this too subtle of a difference vs staccato. _
- tenuto symbol - more legato like
- accent symbol. Sometimes these seem too strong, at least for the strings. I find using the accent with a dot works well in many cases for bigger hits with a bit of seperation.
- upside-down v, or vertical wedge - seems to work same as an accent symbol, not a shorter accent _(unfortunately)_
- use "ord." or "normal" to go back to standard articulation

Strings:
- "marcato" - sounds like an added attack with the long.
- tremolos - use the tool to notate on the note stem or label section as "tremelo" or "trem"
- "pizzicato" or "pizz"
- "sul ponticello" or "sul pont" for closer to the bridge sound (thinner/scratchier)
- "sul tasto" for closer to the fingerboard sound (softer)
- "flautando" or "flaut" for soft flute-like tone
- "con sordino" or "con sord" for mutes
- "col legno" for tapping strings using back of bow
- use the "To X Notehead" tool for triggering bartok pizz (snapping string)
- for harmonics, use the tool. _ I believe DWH mentioned in David's interview about future improvements for triggering (notation?) for artificial harmonics, etc._
- use "ord." or "normal" or "arco" to go back to standard bowing

Not implemented yet but apparently is on their future lower priority implementation list: "sul G"

Brass:
- Mute tool will trigger instruments that have mute samples (trumpets, horns). I believe these are only found in the a2 patches, not solo instruments.

Hope this helps. Again, it takes some trial and error (and patience) to get these to work sometimes, but you'll pick it up pretty quickly after a while I'm sure.

Brandon
musicbybrandonwalker.com


----------



## artinro

It’s a great new tool, but there are so many things that need to be addressed before notation/playback work seamlessly (at least for me). For example, right now if you have a whole section marked staccato but the playback sounds a bit better when marked staccatissimo, you have to delete every articulation and put in the new one note by note. I hope they are working on some improvements to the notation editing interface itself, if only to help with playback a bit. One can’t expect the scores to be as neat or pretty as Dorico or Finale, of course, and that’s not the point.


----------



## Mercutio

brandowalk said:


> I requested such a reference guide for how to trigger articulations to StaffPad's zendesk a while back. I didn't get a clear response on my suggestion, but other dialog suggests they are focusing on system improvements and bugs at this time. Some of these improvements apparently will unlock some articulations - so my guess is they are waiting to do more documentation.
> 
> Like you mentioned, you can learn many of the tips by watching videos of scores as well as walkthroughs posted in the store demos as well as YouTube. Unfortunately, learning is a bit of trial and error as libraries (and even instruments within the libraries) sometimes behave slightly different.
> 
> Here is my unofficial list of articulation triggers and tips. If others are aware of more, please share and add on. This is a bit messy, I know, and one day I may cleanup and put in a spreadsheet.
> 
> General:
> - staccato (dots) works for short notes or indicate "staccato" or "stacc" for the section.
> - sometimes the stacc are too harsh sounding, instead use a tenuto with a dot to give some separation of notes
> - staccatissimo articulation for slightly shorter or stronger short note. _Unfortunately I find this too subtle of a difference vs staccato. _
> - tenuto symbol - more legato like
> - accent symbol. Sometimes these seem too strong, at least for the strings. I find using the accent with a dot works well in many cases for bigger hits with a bit of seperation.
> - upside-down v, or vertical wedge - seems to work same as an accent symbol, not a shorter accent _(unfortunately)_
> - use "ord." or "normal" to go back to standard articulation
> 
> Strings:
> - "marcato" - sounds like an added attack with the long.
> - tremolos - use the tool to notate on the note stem or label section as "tremelo" or "trem"
> - "pizzicato" or "pizz"
> - "sul ponticello" or "sul pont" for closer to the bridge sound (thinner/scratchier)
> - "sul tasto" for closer to the fingerboard sound (softer)
> - "flautando" or "flaut" for soft flute-like tone
> - "con sordino" or "con sord" for mutes
> - "col legno" for tapping strings using back of bow
> - use the "To X Notehead" tool for triggering bartok pizz (snapping string)
> - for harmonics, use the tool. _ I believe DWH mentioned in David's interview about future improvements for triggering (notation?) for artificial harmonics, etc._
> - use "ord." or "normal" or "arco" to go back to standard bowing
> 
> Not implemented yet but apparently is on their future lower priority implementation list: "sul G"
> 
> Brass:
> - Mute tool will trigger instruments that have mute samples (trumpets, horns). I believe these are only found in the a2 patches, not solo instruments.
> 
> Hope this helps. Again, it takes some trial and error (and patience) to get these to work sometimes, but you'll pick it up pretty quickly after a while I'm sure.
> 
> Brandon
> musicbybrandonwalker.com


Thank you Brandon, that's indeed an helpful overview! For experienced composers (what I am not yet ) some of these articulations will be well known but they also will be interested to know which specific articulations are available in the sample libraries they like to use.

Another example for uncommon articulations you can find in the walkthrough video to the VOXOS choir. Here you can learn how to provoke screaming and shouting articulations which are not obvious to find by trial and error . (BTW: Does someone know, if the StaffPad version fo the VOXOS choir is derived from VOXOS 1 or VOXOS 2?)

I wrote a request to StaffPad team and got an immediate answer from Andrew which I will post here as soon as I got his permission to post his reply publicly (nothing spectacular but nevertheless somehow promising). 

Do you or someone else here know, if there exists an established process for feature requests?

Axel


----------



## dcoscina

artinro said:


> It’s a great new tool, but there are so many things that need to be addressed before notation/playback work seamlessly (at least for me). For example, right now if you have a whole section marked staccato but the playback sounds a bit better when marked staccatissimo, you have to delete every articulation and put in the new one note by note. I hope they are working on some improvements to the notation editing interface itself, if only to help with playback a bit. One can’t expect the scores to be as neat or pretty as Dorico or Finale, of course, and that’s not the point.


A mass articulation switcher/selector would be cool.


----------



## artinro

dcoscina said:


> A mass articulation switcher/selector would be cool.



Exactly! It’s a wonderful tool, but there are a few things like this that make the workflow incredibly tedious. I hope they’re listening/fixing.


----------



## brandowalk

Mercutio said:


> Do you or someone else here know, if there exists an established process for feature requests?



I'm only aware of using the zendesk site and "contact us". There was previous dialog here about the desire for a site or forum for this kind of thing for feature requests, but again I imagine their focus right now is on system updates and fixes. It would be nice though to know what improvements are planned, etc for coming updates.


----------



## Gingerbread

Does StaffPad produce any release notes when they update, so that we can know what was changed, fixed, or added? 

Also, same question for library updates. I just updated all the StaffPad Berlin Series libraries I bought, and I have no idea what things have been improved.


----------



## dcoscina

Gingerbread said:


> Does StaffPad produce any release notes when they update, so that we can know what was changed, fixed, or added?
> 
> Also, same question for library updates. I just updated all the StaffPad Berlin Series libraries I bought, and I have no idea what things have been improved.


At present it does not but I'm sure they are working on that stuff.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I was about to say that you forgot up bow and down bow, but listening to Berlon Strings it seems to make no difference to the sound...


----------



## Mercutio

artinro said:


> Exactly! It’s a wonderful tool, but there are a few things like this that make the workflow incredibly tedious. I hope they’re listening/fixing.


+1!


----------



## Mercutio

In told you, that I got an answer from Andrew at StaffPad to my request regarding a master list of articulations for the add-on sample libraries. I was waiting for his permission to post the answer publicity. Today I got it and here it is:


*
StaffPad Support* (StaffPad Ltd)
Jun 25, 2020, 8:25 PM GMT+1
Hi Axel,

Thanks for writing, I understand some of your frustration here. To be honest, we don't have a 'master' list of all techniques and their activation markings, but we should. I'm fairly certain we are working on something similar, though I'll check with David.
The articulations are listed, at least in an overview form, on the product page within the StaffPad Store. Spitfire is a bit inconsistent with their articulations, so it's worth checking their product pages on the Spitfire website to see exactly what they recorded for each instrument. Obviously, if they didn't record it; it's not in the StaffPad Edition.


Thank you for writing, and apologies for the lack of documentation.
Andrew at StaffPad

In a following reply to my request regarding a place for feature requests he answered:

"We are working on an official forum, so hopefully, that will be a place to share information like this..."

So there is some hope


----------



## Mercutio

Occasionally I read about updates for the add-on sample libraries. How do I know that there was an update? Are there any changelogs available?


----------



## Gingerbread

Mercutio said:


> Occasionally I read about updates for the add-on sample libraries. How do I know that there was an update? Are there any changelogs available?


In terms of knowing whether an update to a sample library is available, you must go the StaffPad 'store' and scroll all the way to the bottom, where you'll find a button labeled 'Downloads and Updates'. Pressing that will give you current update availability to any libraries you've bought.

Currently, there is no changelog available to know what changes have been made. Hopefully, they will implement that in the future.


----------



## brandowalk

Gingerbread said:


> Does StaffPad produce any release notes when they update, so that we can know what was changed, fixed, or added?
> 
> Also, same question for library updates. I just updated all the StaffPad Berlin Series libraries I bought, and I have no idea what things have been improved.


They include notes in the App store when they do updates for the software.


----------



## wcreed51

v3.2.2.0 Just posted for Windows!


----------



## jonnybutter

wcreed51 said:


> v3.2.2.0 Just posted for Windows!



Great news! Maybe an iOS update is coming soon then!


----------



## Igor

Lol, wow, I literally just sent them some feature requests to their site, a couple of which appear to be in this new update 

(And, yeah, the new update is on iOS.)


----------



## Igor

One thing I don't see... 
Does anyone know if harp pedaling diagrams are coming? (I didn't see it mentioned... hope I'm not repeating an earlier discussion.)


----------



## pizzarco

The Windows update has the long-awaited Taylor Davis (violin) and Tina Guo (Cello Legato) (with staccato, pizz, marcato, harmonics, sul pont), plus some StaffPad additions, Essentials Drummers, Ambience One.
Note stretch (hold on a notehead, drag left or right to change length).
Drag on dynamics to change value.


----------



## pizzarco

... and the iOS version has arrived for me; v1.2.1.
Same kinds of improvements as the Windows version and with the new sample libraries. Check out the Discover section with the update information.

Edit:
StaffPad essentials: Drummers 385MB
Taylor Davis 175MB
Tina Guo 350MB

There is a slight difference in purchase price, Windows slightly cheaper.


----------



## Mercutio

Gingerbread said:


> In terms of knowing whether an update to a sample library is available, you must go the StaffPad 'store' and scroll all the way to the bottom, where you'll find a button labeled 'Downloads and Updates'. Pressing that will give you current update availability to any libraries you've bought.
> 
> Currently, there is no changelog available to know what changes have been made. Hopefully, they will implement that in the future.


Thank you for your fast reply - but all the way to the bottom there is only a button labeled "Restore Purchases" (Windows 10, Surface Pro)


----------



## Gingerbread

Mercutio said:


> Thank you for your fast reply - but all the way to the bottom there is only a button labeled "Restore Purchases" (Windows 10, Surface Pro)


Oh sorry! Since I use an iPad, I was reporting my experience with that. Perhaps someone else can comment on how to do it using Windows.


----------



## wcreed51

Windows updates are done through the Microsoft Store.

Click the 3 dots in the upper right
Choose Downloads and Update
Click the blue Get Updates button


----------



## brandowalk

Igor said:


> One thing I don't see...
> Does anyone know if harp pedaling diagrams are coming? (I didn't see it mentioned... hope I'm not repeating an earlier discussion.)


I asked about this before. Apparently there is some harp functionality planned in the future so that you can change pedals in the context menu for the harp staff throughout a piece. I assume this will show some type of change on the score - ideally a harp diagram - but this was not mentioned.


----------



## OleJoergensen

“Ethereal”
Ambiance One and various Berlin orchestra instruments.


----------



## wcreed51

Since we now have a StaffPad subsection, I suggest people start new threads, rather than just adding to one long one.


----------



## Igor

I saw this posted once before but never saw a solution for it...

I just purchased one of the libraries. (CinePerc). And I'm having difficulty downloading. At one point it the download stopped and error out, saying some of the samples weren't available. Now when I retry (by hitting "Restore Purchases" it restores all my other libraries, but not that one. Instead it's just stuck on "QUEUED."

Any solutions?

I've tried restarting the app. I also tried rebooting the iPad. (I'm on an iPad Pro.)

Any help much appreciated.


----------



## Saxer

Igor said:


> Any solutions?


Try to buy it again. It won't be charged twice if you are on the same Apple ID as your first purchase.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Igor said:


> I saw this posted once before but never saw a solution for it...
> 
> I just purchased one of the libraries. (CinePerc). And I'm having difficulty downloading. At one point it the download stopped and error out, saying some of the samples weren't available. Now when I retry (by hitting "Restore Purchases" it restores all my other libraries, but not that one. Instead it's just stuck on "QUEUED."
> 
> Any solutions?
> 
> I've tried restarting the app. I also tried rebooting the iPad. (I'm on an iPad Pro.)
> 
> Any help much appreciated.


Maybe also try change internet if possible: share internet over your phone or use wi-fi.


----------



## Kery Michael

Forgive me if this already been asked...  There are 67 pages of this thread to scroll through..

But how usable are the core, included samples with Staffpad? For example, if I just wanted to sketch some harmonies and melodies in Staffpad on my tablet. I don't need them to sound great but just usable enough. And then when my idea is more fleshed out, take it to my DAW and finish it up with my real, good-sounding sample libraries.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I found the stock sounds perfectly serviceable myself, but the strings in particular were a big upgrade when I bought the Berlin Strings. I used these with the stock sounds for a while, but eventually bought the other Berlin Sections over time. But you can go a long way with the stock sounds.

If you dig through the mega-thread, there are some examples where members kindly posted the same music rendered with different libraries, inluding the stock sounds, which was very informative.


----------



## dcoscina

The core sounds are on par if not better than Notions built in library and the percussion and piano instruments are very useable.


----------



## Martin S

@Kery Michael , this thread might be helpful (particularly post #11 by Brandon Walker) 

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/how-good-are-the-default-staffpad-libraries.94859/


----------



## Kery Michael

Martin S said:


> @Kery Michael , this thread might be helpful (particularly post #11 by Brandon Walker)
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/how-good-are-the-default-staffpad-libraries.94859/



Awesome! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## MGdepp

So, I finally bought staffpad for my iPad Pro and wanted to leave my impression after testing it for a few days.

Contrary to many folks here, I was not so much interested in the libraries that can be bought for it. This may be a nice side aspect, but I was much more interested in the recognition of written notes. Different things have been written here about how well that works and this frankly is the deciding factor. Does it work as quickly as writing with pencil an paper?

My verdict on that is: sadly, no! I wrote piano scores I know by heart and which are extremely easy for me to write, as I don’t even have to think about the music at all. And even that was sometimes very frustrating, still after practicing for some hours while going through tutorials. Some bars worked well, others took several attempts for the AI to get the notation. And this is kind of the deal breaker for me: I wanted to use this to write just like on pencil and paper and have a nice looking result with minimal extra effort.

For everyone who is expecting similar results: after a few days practice, I would still get a faster result writing those notes on pen and paper and typing them into Sibelius afterwards. Then, the app is of little use to me. I can imagine one could get more successfulby more practice. But this is a clear case, where I excpect the app of getting better to catch up with me instead of the other way around. Why would you call it AI otherwise.

It is a promising start, but I had honestly expected more from a 100€ ipad app without cross platform purchase. When I look at my writing and me and every musician could clearly read it, so should staffpad be able to read it. As soon as that should work - at least for basic notation - the app is ready imo.


----------



## jonnybutter

MGdepp said:


> So, I finally bought staffpad for my iPad Pro and wanted to leave my impression after testing it for a few days.
> 
> It is a promising start, but I had honestly expected more from a 100€ ipad app without cross platform purchase. When I look at my writing and me and every musician could clearly read it, so should staffpad be able to read it. As soon as that should work - at least for basic notation - the app is ready imo.



I have actually given up on Staffpad for the time being. Since I already purchased it I will wait for more updates and I have to assume it will get much better as time goes on. But I can never get into the flow as it is now. There's always something bogging it down - corrupted files, things not recognized, etc. Fingers crossed. Obviously some people have a much better experience.


----------



## Saxer

This helped me:


----------



## dcoscina

MGdepp said:


> So, I finally bought staffpad for my iPad Pro and wanted to leave my impression after testing it for a few days.
> 
> It is a promising start, but I had honestly expected more from a 100€ ipad app without cross platform purchase. When I look at my writing and me and every musician could clearly read it, so should staffpad be able to read it. As soon as that should work - at least for basic notation - the app is ready imo.



Curious. I've written 3 concert works on it and have had little to no issues.. Yeah, it requires some work-arounds but that's with all technology I've found. I started out in music tech back in the 80s and if you want to know about stuff not working right, I recommend getting in a time machine and travelling back then. Having grown up with technology in music since then, I've learned to adapt, and adjust methodologies.

StaffPad still has its challenges to be sure but to declare it's unusable is honestly more about context or unwillingness to adapt on the part of its user.


----------



## MauroPantin

I've been using StaffPad for the past month. So far, it takes me about the same to input music in Staffpad than it does in Sibelius. There's some getting used to it, I had to change how I write a bit, but not much. I expect to take less and less as time moves forward. The video tutorials are key in order to get going, otherwise it's too frustrating.

However, even if the speed does not improve and this is it, I am happy. Typing music in with speed entry or any other notation program mechanism always feels like a technical thing. I love how artistic and enjoyable it is to write the music in as I did when I was in college. I always loved the relationship of going from ear training to handwritten music, there is an intuition to it and it feels great to be able to execute it again without having an extra step for keyboard shortcuts right in the middle of that intuition.

My only trouble so far is that I haven't been able to access the store. I contacted the guys at StaffPad and David himself messaged me back, I updated windows and performed the recommended steps, but so far the store doesn't work properly for me and I have no access to the sample libraries by other developers.

Still, no biggie. I have samples in my DAW. I wanted to get the entire experience within the app but I'll work around it for now, I guess.


----------



## jonnybutter

Saxer said:


> This helped me:




Hi Saxer,

Thanks very much for this. That video does have good information that isn't in the Staffpad videos or manual.

Here's a summary of what was new to me:


8th note rests should be the height of a 4th


16th note rests, the height of a 6th


Accents should be drawn from bottom left in one motion, and on the *note head *side


Martellato accents must be on _stem_ side (this one was driving me crazy!).

thanks again Saxer!

EDIT: the martellato accents actually work over the note heads now. They work under them too (sometimes).


----------



## jonnybutter

dcoscina said:


> Curious. I've written 3 concert works on it and have had little to no issues.. Yeah, it requires some work-arounds but that's with all technology I've found. I started out in music tech back in the 80s and if you want to know about stuff not working right, I recommend getting in a time machine and travelling back then. Having grown up with technology in music since then, I've learned to adapt, and adjust methodologies.
> 
> StaffPad still has its challenges to be sure but to declare it's unusable is honestly more about context or unwillingness to adapt on the part of its user.



I started in the 80s too, and I always hated the idea of adapting to the tech. Sometimes the tech gives you tools or ideas you could never do or think of before - that's great. But when it's trying to replace something - like handwriting - and it's worse, that's a problem to me. It's a fine line between the aforementioned new idea generation, and the tech _dictating_ what I can and can't do. I am certainly not going to adapt what I write to fit the tech. 

I think to declare it either usable or unusable for everyone (which I didn't do) is a mistake. Glad it works for you, but it takes all kinds of people to make a world. 

After Saxer's video, I'm inspired to try again though ; )


----------



## dcoscina

jonnybutter said:


> I started in the 80s too, and I always hated the idea of adapting to the tech. Sometimes the tech gives you tools or ideas you could never do or think of before - that's great. But when it's trying to replace something - like handwriting - and it's worse, that's a problem to me. It's a fine line between the aforementioned new idea generation, and the tech _dictating_ what I can and can't do. I am certainly not going to adapt what I write to fit the tech.
> 
> I think to declare it either usable or unusable for everyone (which I didn't do) is a mistake. Glad it works for you, but it takes all kinds of people to make a world.
> 
> After Saxer's video, I'm inspired to try again though ; )



I think it depends on what the music is intended for. If it’s going to ultimately be performed by real musicians, then beginning in StaffPad for some ideas then porting to Dorico or Sibelius and using NotePerformer is probably the fastest most direct way of working- though the mock up might not sell it.

If you're in need to producing a great finished work using samples, I’m afraid to tell you that you will have to make concessions lest your employer (director, producer, client) dislike like the results, regardless of how brilliant the music is...

Staffpad at this point exists in between these two realms. I’ve not found much of a need to modify my music ideas for medium to slower tempo work. Super fast explosive or action based writing (which I seldom write) doesn’t do well in my experience but that also depends on which expansion library I’m using too. Berlin series is great for lyrical, emotive work. I've had good success with some aggressive brass writing with Berlin as well. Winds are a tad sluggish however. Spitfire winds are nice and fluid but soft whereas CineWinds seem to strike the best compromise. Spitfire Symphonic Strings for me don't really work for my purposes but their Chamber Strings are quite good. My go-to is Berlin strings and First Chairs for most of my string work. Percussion is a toss up between Berlin and Spitfire, while CinePerc is great for film score type music (not that I need that for concert works). 

d


----------



## MGdepp

dcoscina said:


> StaffPad still has its challenges to be sure but to declare it's unusable is honestly more about context or unwillingness to adapt on the part of its user.


Sigh! Always these entitled folks here ... Isn’t it ok that one person likes Staffpad (or Spitfire or whatever) while the next might not quite get what he was looking for? 

It is one thing to disagree about something. But it is totally unnecessary to lecture people, call them stupid or question their ability to comprehend, adapt or whatever. I thought that might be common wisdom, but it kind of hasn’t spread here on Vi-Control ...


----------



## jonnybutter

dcoscina said:


> I think it depends on what the music is intended for. If it’s going to ultimately be performed by real musicians, then beginning in StaffPad for some ideas then porting to Dorico or Sibelius and using NotePerformer is probably the fastest most direct way of working- though the mock up might not sell it.
> 
> d




I honestly don't care that much about the samples. It's nice to have nice sounding samples in StaffPad, but that is a distant second consideration for me.

_I want it to recognize my handwriting_, since that is what the app is about. It's not working very well for me right now. The tips in Saxer's video were helpful, but I still have other problems. Maybe there's something wrong with my iPad itself? I'm now having problems with dots (the kind that add duration).

I’m assembling some videos which should be self explanatory. Will post them up.

thanks to all


----------



## dcoscina

MGdepp said:


> Sigh! Always these entitled folks here ... Isn’t it ok that one person likes Staffpad (or Spitfire or whatever) while the next might not quite get what he was looking for?
> 
> It is one thing to disagree about something. But it is totally unnecessary to lecture people, call them stupid or question their ability to comprehend, adapt or whatever. I thought that might be common wisdom, but it kind of hasn’t spread here on Vi-Control ...


I never inferred, implied or suggested that people who are having problems with SP are stupid. Please don't put words in my proverbial mouth sir....


----------



## Michael Antrum

jonnybutter said:


> _I want it to recognize my handwriting_, since that is what the app is about. It's not working very well for me right now. The tips in Saxer's video were helpful, but I still have other problems. Maybe there's something wrong with my iPad itself? I'm now having problems with dots (the kind that add duration).



It took a while for Staffpad and I to get to know each other, but now we rub along pretty famously. (There were also a couple of updates along the way too). Funnily enough, I've found that since using Staffpad, my notation made with pencil and paper has improved in clarity somewhat too.

One thing that made a difference for me was one of those Paperlike matt screen protectors - not only does it feel like paper, the 'resisitance' makes writing with the Apple Pencil easier, as it doesn't tend to skate on the glass like before.


----------



## jonnybutter

Michael Antrum said:


> It took a while for Staffpad and I to get to know each other, but now we rub along pretty famously. (There were also a couple of updates along the way too). Funnily enough, I've found that since using Staffpad, my notation made with pencil and paper has improved in clarity somewhat too.
> 
> One thing that made a difference for me was one of those Paperlike matt screen protectors - not only does it feel like paper, the 'resisitance' makes writing with the Apple Pencil easier, as it doesn't tend to skate on the glass like before.



Thanks Michael. I have thought about getting Paperlike. And I know there are updates coming. I am skittish about spending any more money (or frankly, time) on this right now. The new iPad and pencil weren't cheap! 

Does the app actually do any AI - i.e. does it learn your style, as you suggest when you say Staffpad has gotten to know you? I am not aware that it does, but would love to be wrong.

Another update or two along with more time from me and maybe that will do the trick.

cheers


----------



## Michael Antrum

Honestly, I'm not sure about the AI learning my style, or is it my style adaptain to the AI ? But I do know my 'success rate' in translating my notation is at a point I am content with.

Sometimes I get stuck with something that fails to parse several times, so then I write it a different way, and I always get there in the end.

However, Staffpad is a big deal to me as I travel a great deal. I can sit at a restaurant table, or on an airplane seat and write - it effectively has extended the time I have available to compose. For me that is making some allowances...


----------



## jonnybutter

Michael Antrum said:


> Honestly, I'm not sure about the AI learning my style, or is it my style adaptain to the AI ? But I do know my 'success rate' in translating my notation is at a point I am content with.
> 
> Sometimes I get stuck with something that fails to parse several times, so then I write it a different way, and I always get there in the end.
> 
> However, Staffpad is a big deal to me as I travel a great deal. I can sit at a restaurant table, or on an airplane seat and write - it effectively has extended the time I have available to compose. For me that is making some allowances...



Good! Always glad to hear when it's working out for others. Glad for you, and also know that it will eventually work for me as well. When the world loosens up a little, I expect to be traveling quite a bit as well, so it will be great to have.

I have attached a very boring video of me trying to draw a dot (Look at the penultimate (quarter) note). You are seeing the entire bar of 4/4. No matter where I draw the dot, it doesn't take. What the hell am I doing wrong??

EDIT: Obviously, it's not anybody's job to help me learn this application. And I have another video of me trying to add duration dots further to the right, the left, further up, further down, etc. with no luck. If anybody sees something obvious please let me know. Otherwise...ick, I'll keep trying.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Doesn't play on my Mac.....


----------



## jonnybutter

Michael Antrum said:


> Doesn't play on my Mac.....



Sorry. Plays on my mac but not ipad. Apple 'innovation' doncha know...


----------



## jonnybutter

View attachment RPReplay_Final1596831835.MP4


----------



## MGdepp

dcoscina said:


> I never inferred, implied or suggested that people who are having problems with SP are stupid. Please don't put words in my proverbial mouth sir....


No, you didn't call them stupid. That was other folks. My remark was rather general towards a general tendency on this forum (and maybe other forums - I just don't visit many ...).

But you insinuated that if users would not like Staffpad, they would have to be "unwilling to adapt". It kind of fits my general observation, that many people here try to emphasize their own opinion marginalizing other opinions. There are matter that are about facts (right and wrong) and there are matters that are debatable and depend a lot on taste. I wish more people here could distinguish better between those two ...


----------



## Michael Antrum

jonnybutter said:


> View attachment RPReplay_Final1596831835.MP4



Delete the last note in the bar. Then put the dot on the crotchet. Then put in the quaver.....

The dot, I find, should be a dot - drawn like a full stop.


----------



## dcoscina

MGdepp said:


> No, you didn't call them stupid. That was other folks. My remark was rather general towards a general tendency on this forum (and maybe other forums, I just don't visit many ...).
> 
> But you insinuated that if users would not like Staffpad, they would have to be "unwilling to adapt". It kind of fits my general observation, that many people here try to emphasize their own opinion marginalizing other opinions. There are matter that are about facts (right and wrong) and there are matters that are debatable and depend a lot on taste. I wish more people here could distinguish better between those two ...



Sorry, didn't mean to. I just wish other folks could get their money's worth out of this app because it's admittedly a bit steep as far as iOS apps go, especially when you get into the premium add on libraries. 
You must admit that our modern society emphasizes a bit of an instant gratification mentality though- and when something doesn't work exactly as intended, then some (not all) people get up in arms, make unpleasant charges at the company or developer etc etc. 

I'm happy to help folks out with StaffPad as much as I can since I see the value in it, even if it's not perfect. And I do get that you have to make concessions with this app when composing which some folks would rather not do (don't blame them). I myself know that any of these pieces would have to be adapted using Dorico if they were to be performed by real musicians. StaffPad is closer to generating playable scores compared to DAWs and its rendering is pretty fantastic for a mobile app/device. 

Luckily it can only get better as David and his team develop it which they are doing quite aggressively. 

Cheers


----------



## MGdepp

dcoscina said:


> Sorry, didn't mean to. I just wish other folks could get their money's worth out of this app because it's admittedly a bit steep as far as iOS apps go, especially when you get into the premium add on libraries.
> You must admit that our modern society emphasizes a bit of an instant gratification mentality though- and when something doesn't work exactly as intended, then some (not all) people get up in arms, make unpleasant charges at the company or developer etc etc.


I totally agree with that and most of the time, I prefer products that may not instantly gratify, because they are complicated to learn, but offer a wealth of features making them deep. My Sequencer (Cubase) or most sample libraries I like fall into that category. 

But - as I already explained - there are exceptions to that: I wouldn't be thrilled to have to learn how to speak to Siri, Alexa, Cortana and other voice assistants. The success of a voice assistant is primarily defined by the speed and accuracy it may understand me (and others). The same is my thinking about a notation program that primarily reads my handwriting. I haven no problem having to learn Dorico, but I don't want to re-learn how to manually write sheet music.  



dcoscina said:


> I'm happy to help folks out with StaffPad as much as I can since I see the value in it, even if it's not perfect. And I do get that you have to make concessions with this app when composing which some folks would rather not do (don't blame them). I myself know that any of these pieces would have to be adapted using Dorico if they were to be performed by real musicians. StaffPad is closer to generating playable scores compared to DAWs and its rendering is pretty fantastic for a mobile app/device.
> 
> Luckily it can only get better as David and his team develop it which they are doing quite aggressively.
> 
> Cheers


It is great that you are helping out people with problems and I also like the Staffpad app for their idea! I just hope they will be able to drastically improve the AI of the program. I will certainly revisit the next version (unless it will be a paid upgrade).


----------



## Michael Antrum

MGdepp said:


> I wouldn't be thrilled to have to learn how to speak to Siri, Alexa, Cortana and other voice assistants. The success of a voice assistant is primarily defined by the speed and accuracy it may understand me (and others). The same is my thinking about a notation program that primarily reads my handwriting. I haven no problem having to learn Dorico, but I don't want to re-learn how to manually write sheet music.



I know what you mean, but I do exactly that. I use Alexa to control Amazon music in my car, and I find that phrasing things in certain ways leads to better results, and subsequently modify the way I phrase my requests, almost without realising it.


----------



## dcoscina

MGdepp said:


> I totally agree with that and most of the time, I prefer products that may not instantly gratify, because they are complicated to learn, but offer a wealth of features making them deep. My Sequencer (Cubase) or most sample libraries I like fall into that category.
> 
> But - as I already explained - there are exceptions to that: I wouldn't be thrilled to have to learn how to speak to Siri, Alexa, Cortana and other voice assistants. The success of a voice assistant is primarily defined by the speed and accuracy it may understand me (and others). The same is my thinking about a notation program that primarily reads my handwriting. I haven no problem having to learn Dorico, but I don't want to re-learn how to manually write sheet music.
> 
> 
> It is great that you are helping out people with problems and I also like the Staffpad app for their idea! I just hope they will be able to drastically improve the AI of the program. I will certainly revisit the next version (unless it will be a paid upgrade).


Fair enough. There's not really any precedence for paid upgrades for apps AFAIK but I could be wrong. I haven't heard anything regarding paid updates. I know David is actively working on making the app better and is very open to user input.


----------



## jonnybutter

Michael Antrum said:


> Delete the last note in the bar. Then put the dot on the crotchet. Then put in the quaver.....
> 
> The dot, I find, should be a dot - drawn like a full stop.



Thank you sir. I will try that (although one shouldn't have to delete the last note in a bar to draw a dot on a previous note, if there is room in the bar! I understand you can't add a dot if it will make the bar have too many beats, but that's not the case here.).


----------



## Michael Antrum

I find that anything that modifies the note length I put in at the same time as the note. Accidentals I put in later.....I had to actually get my ipad out and do it to be sure, as I do it almost subconsciously now....


----------



## dcoscina

is anyone using the drag left-right while hold note to change duration? I find that helpful.


----------



## Michael Antrum

dcoscina said:


> is anyone using the drag left-right while hold note to change duration? I find that helpful.



Grabs iPad...... Ooooooohhhh......need to practice this one to get it every time, but.....Ooooohhhh!!!


----------



## jonnybutter

Michael Antrum said:


> I find that anything that modifies the note length I put in at the same time as the note. Accidentals I put in later.....I had to actually get my ipad out and do it to be sure, as I do it almost subconsciously now....



Doesn't work for me. Tried everything you advised, but no joy. Very frustrating. Thanks for your help though.


----------



## jonnybutter

dcoscina said:


> is anyone using the drag left-right while hold note to change duration? I find that helpful.



THAT works for me, but I can't draw a dot!

EDIT: I actually got dots working, but not in the bar I was working on in the video. I'm glad they work, but it's just not acceptable to have so much file corruption/weirdness on Staffpad. It makes no sense for that to happen in one bar and not another. grrr.


----------



## Michael Antrum

jonnybutter said:


> Doesn't work for me. Tried everything you advised, but no joy. Very frustrating. Thanks for your help though.



Works for me EVERY TIME (iPad Pro with Apple Pencil 2.) Even with notes later in the bar.

However, if adding the dot causes the notes lengths in the bar to overrun the bar length, then it fails every time.


----------



## Dave McD

jonnybutter said:


> THAT works for me, but I can't draw a dot!
> 
> EDIT: I actually got dots working, but not in the bar I was working on in the video. I'm glad they work, but it's just not acceptable to have so much file corruption/weirdness on Staffpad. It makes no sense for that to happen in one bar and not another. grrr.


 

After making a small dot above/below or next to a note, do you tap outside that measure? Just checking.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Here is an entirely useless video showing it works.... (Useless in that I don't see how it can help you...)

View attachment RPReplay_Final1597181225.MP4


----------



## rgames

jonnybutter said:


> View attachment RPReplay_Final1596831835.MP4


I've had similar issues a few times. One thing that worked for me was re-entering the notes in a new measure then copying/moving it back onto the old one. Some measures just get corrupt and you can't do anything with them. I have encountered several permanently "orange" measures despite perfectly acceptable notation.


----------



## jonnybutter

Michael Antrum said:


> Works for me EVERY TIME (iPad Pro with Apple Pencil 2.) Even with notes later in the bar.
> 
> However, if adding the dot causes the notes lengths in the bar to overrun the bar length, then it fails every time.



Thanks 


Dave McD said:


> After making a small dot above/below or next to a note, do you tap outside that measure? Just checking.



Umm. Yes, I know to tap outside the measure.


----------



## jonnybutter

rgames said:


> I've had similar issues a few times. One thing that worked for me was re-entering the notes in a new measure then copying/moving it back onto the old one. Some measures just get corrupt and you can't do anything with them. I have encountered several permanently "orange" measures despite perfectly acceptable notation.



Thanks very much Richard. It is helpful to know that this is happening to someone else, and also that it's probably not a physical problem with my iPad. Cheers!


----------



## jonnybutter

Michael Antrum said:


> Here is an entirely useles video showing it works.... (Useless in that I don't see how it can help you...)



Thanks for sending it along Michael. I think hearing from Richard that some bars just get corrupted is kind of a breakthrough. Rather than trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong, from now on I'll just move onto another bar, etc. 

thanks to all


----------



## dcoscina

jonnybutter said:


> THAT works for me, but I can't draw a dot!
> 
> EDIT: I actually got dots working, but not in the bar I was working on in the video. I'm glad they work, but it's just not acceptable to have so much file corruption/weirdness on Staffpad. It makes no sense for that to happen in one bar and not another. grrr.


not that this should make a difference but what iPad model are you using? Also, have you updated to most recent OS build?


----------



## dcoscina

Michael Antrum said:


> Grabs iPad...... Ooooooohhhh......need to practice this one to get it every time, but.....Ooooohhhh!!!


I find it very useful- though it deletes any dynamics markings if you do. I've raised this with David and StaffPad team.


----------



## jonnybutter

dcoscina said:


> not that this should make a difference but what iPad model are you using? Also, have you updated to most recent OS build?



Worthy questions. It's the newest iPad pro - the 11.9 inch. And, yes, I always keep iOS up to date (unlike Mac OS ; )). Just updated today in fact.


----------



## dcoscina

jonnybutter said:


> Worthy questions. It's the newest iPad pro - the 11.9 inch. And, yes, I always keep iOS up to date (unlike Mac OS ; )). Just updated today in fact.


Ok good to know. I also have the 2020 iPad 11.9 pro. However I haven’t updated yet...not that it should affect it either way. .


----------



## jonnybutter

dcoscina said:


> Ok good to know. I also have the 2020 iPad 11.9 pro. However I haven’t updated yet...not that it should affect it either way. .



A dot update shouldn't break anything, but I guess you never know. iOS is a bit of a mess sometimes.


----------



## dcoscina

jonnybutter said:


> A dot update shouldn't break anything, but I guess you never know. iOS is a bit of a mess sometimes.


Yes I agree. Should be fairly harmless


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Michael Antrum said:


> I know what you mean, but I do exactly that. I use Alexa to control Amazon music in my car, and I find that phrasing things in certain ways leads to better results, and subsequently modify the way I phrase my requests, almost without realising it.


@Michael Antrum Just like a real wife, then. *oops, sorry*


----------



## PaulBrimstone

dcoscina said:


> is anyone using the drag left-right while hold note to change duration? I find that helpful.


Yes, all the time. Very useful.


----------



## jonnybutter

rgames said:


> I've had similar issues a few times. One thing that worked for me was re-entering the notes in a new measure then copying/moving it back onto the old one. Some measures just get corrupt and you can't do anything with them. I have encountered several permanently "orange" measures despite perfectly acceptable notation.



Hi Richard,

I did a little more playing around, and found that if I added strong accents to notes in the measure, duration dots didn’t work for that measure. But if I deleted the accents, the dots worked again!

Formally, strong accents were supposed to go only on the stem side (not note head side), but I find that isn’t true now. Maybe they fixed this in the last update, but it broke dots? I’ll pass it on to them.

cheers


----------



## Michael Antrum

PaulBrimstone said:


> @Michael Antrum Just like a real wife, then. *oops, sorry*



The funny thing is you say something like that, and yesterday was my 30th Wedding Anniversary.

My stepfather has an Alexa I bought him for Christmas one year, my mother having passed away a year earlier. He said that Alexa is the only woman he ever had in the house that did as she was asked.

(Of course I immediately denounced him to the BBC, and he is now booked in for re-education).


----------



## MauroPantin

Finally I've updated Windows and have been able to get my hands on the premium libraries. I went with Berlin. 

I am simply amazed. They are not perfect but the results are nothing short of incredible given the amount of effort it takes to craft something. Just focusing on the music and doing away with most of the tech feels very liberating. You can probably get better results in a DAW, though, but it would take a long time. It's a great baseline.

I imagine as things become more advanced it will yield better results or will become even easier to get a very reasonable mockup. Either way, I just don't see how this would not be the way to compose orchestral music moving forward into the future. I am truly psyched for this app.


----------



## dcoscina

MauroPantin said:


> Finally I've updated Windows and have been able to get my hands on the premium libraries. I went with Berlin.
> 
> I am simply amazed. They are not perfect but the results are nothing short of incredible given the amount of effort it takes to craft something. Just focusing on the music and doing away with most of the tech feels very liberating. You can probably get better results in a DAW, though, but it would take a long time. It's a great baseline.
> 
> I imagine as things become more advanced it will yield better results or will become even easier to get a very reasonable mockup. Either way, I just don't see how this would not be the way to compose orchestral music moving forward into the future. I am truly psyched for this app.


Beautifully articulated! Welcome to the club!


----------



## Michael Antrum

MauroPantin said:


> Finally I've updated Windows and have been able to get my hands on the premium libraries. I went with Berlin.
> 
> I am simply amazed. They are not perfect but the results are nothing short of incredible given the amount of effort it takes to craft something. Just focusing on the music and doing away with most of the tech feels very liberating. You can probably get better results in a DAW, though, but it would take a long time. It's a great baseline.
> 
> I imagine as things become more advanced it will yield better results or will become even easier to get a very reasonable mockup. Either way, I just don't see how this would not be the way to compose orchestral music moving forward into the future. I am truly psyched for this app.





​


----------



## dcoscina

I didn't do this mock up but it was posted by a fellow FB StaffPad member and sheesh, it's pretty bloody amazing. There was someone earlier in this thread who didn’t like a mock up made for Le Sacre but this sounds a million times better than that and shows what SP can do in the hands of someone who knows how to maximize its resources.


----------



## Karl Ask

dcoscina said:


> I didn't do this mock up but it was posted by a fellow FB StaffPad member and sheesh, it's pretty bloody amazing. There was someone earlier in this thread who didn’t like a mock up made for Le Sacre but this sounds a million times better than that and shows what SP can do in the hands of someone who knows how to maximize its resources.



Thanks for posting, David!


----------



## dcoscina

Karl Ask said:


> Thanks for posting, David!


Great job Karl. I cannot say this enough. It's exceedingly difficult to make something as established as Firebird sound convincing but you did so wonderfully. Cheers!


----------



## wcreed51

Just back from being away for a couple of weeks without internet. Sort of dissapointed to find no update or new instruments!


----------



## brandowalk

Sounds like a nice Internet vacation! 

Funny I was on SP this morning thinking the same thing and hoping for some updates on things I thought we’re in the works.


----------



## prodigalson

Karl Ask said:


> Thanks for posting, David!



As a happy SP user I was about to suggest this was a real orchestra until you took credit. Incredible work, it’s almost unbelievable


----------



## borisb2

Would like to join the SP club as well - for that I would need a new iPad.

Is the 12.9“ the only way to go with SP or does 11“ (Pro or the upcomng Air) does a good job as well out of experience?

Thanks

Edit: found some interesting replies regarding screen size on page 50 on this thread 👍👍 .. will probably settle on 11“


----------



## dcoscina

borisb2 said:


> Would like to join the SP club as well - for that I would need a new iPad.
> 
> Is the 12.9“ the only way to go with SP or does 11“ (Pro or the upcomng Air) does a good job as well out of experience?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Edit: found some interesting replies regarding screen size on page 50 on this thread 👍👍 .. will probably settle on 11“


I like my 11” iPad Pro. I had the Air3 prior to that which was ok.


----------



## Progfather

Does anyone know if it is possible to notate the scale of a glissando? Currently trying to accomplish something that looks like this:


----------



## dcoscina

not on StaffPad at this time.


----------



## brandowalk

You could write it out completely. For notational purposes, I will write out the 7 notes of the scale and then do the gliss up (see attached sample). This doesn't play back properly. That said, I find for the majority of uses in a busy section, the default gliss sounds between two notes sounds pretty good. 

I have asked about improved capability for writing harp and DWH has indicated there was plans to be able to change the pedals (I'm guessing like changing a preset). This is addition to proper handling of the grand cleff for dynamics placement and hopefully even cross staff beaming would be a huge improvement for me. I understand an update is expected soon so I am keeping fingers crossed this is one of the updates!


----------



## Progfather

dcoscina said:


> not on StaffPad at this time.



Thanks for the quick reply. It's not a big deal going around it by manually notating an arpeggio, but this would be really cool to see in the future!


----------



## J-M

Does anyone know if this coming to Android someday? Apple devices are...expensive.


----------



## Altauria

J-M said:


> Does anyone know if this coming to Android someday? Apple devices are...expensive.



They've only mentioned "not at this time." Going off of the recommended Windows/iOS devices capable of running this software, the comparable Android devices (Samsung Galaxy Tab) are just as expensive as the Surfaces and iPads. If not more.


----------



## Progfather

And just like that... per Staffpad's latest blog entry, it would appear this team is absolutely on the ball and updated Harp glissando and pedaling.









October 2020 Update


StaffPad is a music notation and composition app designed for handwriting music recognition, touch editing, amazing playback, automatic score layout and realtime parts over WiFi. Available in the App Store for iPad and iPadOS, and the Windows Store for Windows 10.




www.staffpad.net





I'm so grateful for all of the effort the Staffpad team is putting in to make this an incredible compositional tool.


----------



## Eric G

Its been a while since I have talked about StaffPad because I have been heads down using it. It is cemented in my workflow that I have now manually (via MIDI/MusicXML) integrated it 
with Dorico when I need to pull in other sample libraries. I refuse to go back to MIDI editing.


----------



## dcoscina

Eric G said:


> Its been a while since I have talked about StaffPad because I have been heads down using it. It is cemented in my workflow that I have now manually (via MIDI/MusicXML) integrated it
> with Dorico when I need to pull in other sample libraries. I refuse to go back to MIDI editing.


Always great to hear from you Eric. How are you finding the latest update? Do you like the harp pedalling features? 

-David


----------



## Eric G

dcoscina said:


> Always great to hear from you Eric. How are you finding the latest update? Do you like the harp pedalling features?
> 
> -David



That was a top request of mine. No complaints from me. Looking forward to the future with StaffPad.


----------



## Montisquirrel

Hi,

I just ordered a Surface Pro 7 (finally!!) and it will take some days to arrive.
When I buy StaffPad and 3rd Party Plugins with my normal desktop PC, can I still install them on my Surface later when I login with the same windows app-store account? I ask, because I want to get something from the Cinesamples Black Friday Sale before it ends.


----------



## servandus

Montisquirrel said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just ordered a Surface Pro 7 (finally!!) and it will take some days to arrive.
> When I buy StaffPad and 3rd Party Plugins with my normal desktop PC, can I still install them on my Surface later when I login with the same windows app-store account? I ask, because I want to get something from the Cinesamples Black Friday Sale before it ends.



Yes, you can install them on up to 10 different windows devices whenever you want (using the same account, of course). Enjoy!


----------



## Montisquirrel

servandus said:


> Yes, you can install them on up to 10 different windows devices whenever you want (using the same account, of course). Enjoy!



Thank you! Lets do it...


----------



## zilonline

OleJoergensen said:


> Here is an answer from Staffpad:
> Hey Ole,
> 
> Ah I see -- yes, I think due to the slow tempo, and quiet dynamic marking, yet demisemiquavers (heh), it's managing to trigger the "slow attack" sustain samples, but there isn't quite enough time to let them fully bloom -- so the release samples kick in before the note has "grown" to its full volume, which can sound a bit like a ghost note. It would also explain why the legato is a little more bumpy -- it sort of falls between two posts...
> 
> I wonder, if this were double the tempo, yet written with minims vs crotchets, if it would sound smoother... I might test this one out...
> 
> Best
> D



Has there been a solution yet for this? An update for the Berlin Strings, perhaps?


----------



## erodred

Did the October 2020 update improve the handwriting on the iPad? That was something I read was an issue compared with the surface which had time to refine it.

Wife has an iPad Pro already. If not then maybe I will save up for a Surface Pro.... It would be nice to get this for sketching ideas on the couch or in the car (if the wife drives once in awhile). 

The new iPad Air looks attractive for the price but I imagine the screen will be small for this sort of thing.


----------



## zilonline

I'm not sure about the updates, but I'm also just getting started with StaffPad and I got myself a 2nd generation ThinkPad X1 Yoga and a Lenovo Active Pen 2. I'm quite fond of this setup.. only thing is the glossy screen, which I would substitute for a matte one, but it seems such a 2-in-1 is very hard to find. Weird, because Wacom for one seems to have made at least some graphic tablets with a matte screen, but oh well.


----------



## jonnybutter

erodred said:


> Did the October 2020 update improve the handwriting on the iPad?



Yes. I had a lot of trouble with it when it first came out, but this is the second update this year, and it's gotten quite a bit better.


----------



## Cinebient

Now that I could use StaffPad also on my M1 MacBook I wonder if that could work, since I have no iPad anymore and do not plan to buy another soon nor would I buy a windows multi-touch Frankenstein anytime soon. 
So could I use a pencil or even the finger on the trackpad? 
Anyone with a M1 machine own StaffPad and tried it?


----------



## dcoscina

Cinebient said:


> Now that I could use StaffPad also on my M1 MacBook I wonder if that could work, since I have no iPad anymore and do not plan to buy another soon nor would I buy a windows multi-touch Frankenstein anytime soon.
> So could I use a pencil or even the finger on the trackpad?
> Anyone with a M1 machine own StaffPad and tried it?


I would assume you would need a Wacom or something... DWH could confirm


----------



## bengoss

Hi guys, 
Am I missing something? I just purchased staffpad for iOS and it’s terrible. The recognition just doesn’t work. I’m classically trained and I know how to write. Very inconvenient, it hardly recognizes half notes. Anyone else having issues? I think I’ll just ask for a refund. 
b


----------



## thesteelydane

bengoss said:


> Hi guys,
> Am I missing something? I just purchased staffpad for iOS and it’s terrible. The recognition just doesn’t work. I’m classically trained and I know how to write. Very inconvenient, it hardly recognizes half notes. Anyone else having issues? I think I’ll just ask for a refund.
> b


It was like that in the beginning for me too, but once you learn it is an incredible tool. There are some videos with handy tips that will help you a lot.


----------



## jonnybutter

bengoss said:


> Hi guys,
> Am I missing something? I just purchased staffpad for iOS and it’s terrible. The recognition just doesn’t work. I’m classically trained and I know how to write. Very inconvenient, it hardly recognizes half notes. Anyone else having issues? I think I’ll just ask for a refund.
> b


I don't think they offer refunds, for obvious reasons. It's a shame they can't offer a trial, but I think that's the fault of the Apple store rather than Staffpad. 

I have trouble with it too at times, but it's actually kind of an amazing application once you get used to it. Watch those videos and do some practice before giving up.


----------



## bengoss

Oh yes, they do refunds. Just write to Apple directly. I’ve done it before. I will definitely try couple of more days but it doesn’t look promising. Thank you


----------



## zilonline

Like others have said, give it some time.. for me, when I started I didn't have a touch-screen capable computer/tablet at all, so luckily I got the opportunity to rent an used Thinkpad X1 Yoga (2nd gen). It came with a tiny small pen, which was uncomfortable to hold and use for the input. I was on the fence for other reasons (I wanted a matte touchscreen, but those are very rare to find, if at all possible). In the end, I stuck with it, got a properly thick pen (like a normal everyday pencil). That increased the comfort levels and accuracy massively. Which doesn't mean errors don't occur at all, but it's much much better. In fact, most of the errors happen either due to my sloppy and lazy writing or a rare programming quirk with the program (mistaking a grace note for a flat, for example). But like I said, rarely do I need to go back and fix something I've inputted due to the program not recognizing my intent. Sometimes, I'm even surprised when everything works out just fine after initially believing there's no way this sloppy thing I just wrote would be translated to notation..


----------



## jonnybutter

bengoss said:


> Oh yes, they do refunds. Just write to Apple directly. I’ve done it before. I will definitely try couple of more days but it doesn’t look promising. Thank you


I did not know that! OK.


----------



## giwro

bengoss said:


> Hi guys,
> Am I missing something? I just purchased staffpad for iOS and it’s terrible. The recognition just doesn’t work. I’m classically trained and I know how to write. Very inconvenient, it hardly recognizes half notes. Anyone else having issues? I think I’ll just ask for a refund.
> b


The issue is that StaffPad doesn’t care about your classical training, nor your writing abilities... (chuckle)

It expects a certain way of scoring in order to work. I know it’s frustrating at first, it drove me nuts. I’m in the same boat as you - classically trained and a decent copyist. So, I watched/read tutorials, and now it works. Would it be nice if one could just use it without learning how it wants input? Yes. But, I didn’t find it to be that much hardship to learn. YMMV, I guess.


----------



## micrologus

bengoss said:


> Hi guys,
> Am I missing something? I just purchased staffpad for iOS and it’s terrible. The recognition just doesn’t work. I’m classically trained and I know how to write. Very inconvenient, it hardly recognizes half notes. Anyone else having issues? I think I’ll just ask for a refund.
> b


Same problems for me at the beginning, but with a little practice everithing gets better! It's like learning an instrument: be patient, because the application is excellent.


----------



## jonnybutter

giwro said:


> The issue is that StaffPad doesn’t care about your classical training, nor your writing abilities... (chuckle)


This is true, and it’s not a good thing! Seriously! But Staffpad is actually pretty amazing, and it certainly needs more than a day or two to figure out. I think you’d have to work at it for a good week or more after watching the videos, to get a true idea. 

My complaint is that I have crashes and buggy behavior way too much, but I’m starting to suspect iOS, at least partially. iPad pro still feels like walking on slippery ice sometimes. Just not loving the whole experience. I got a magic keyboard too, which is nice, but - iPad iOS is crashy, unfinished, disorganized, *overweening*. Bleh.


----------



## giwro

jonnybutter said:


> This is true, and it’s not a good thing! Seriously! But Staffpad is actually pretty amazing, and it certainly needs more than a day or two to figure out. I think you’d have to work at it for a good week or more after watching the videos, to get a true idea.
> 
> My complaint is that I have crashes and buggy behavior way too much, but I’m starting to suspect iOS, at least partially. iPad pro still feels like walking on slippery ice sometimes. Just not loving the whole experience. I got a magic keyboard too, which is nice, but - iPad iOS is crashy, unfinished, disorganized, *overweening*. Bleh.


One of the things I found on my (non-iPad Pro) iPad was that if I was having issues, it was often fixed if I 1-closed all apps and 2-did a complete power-down and restart, then only starting StaffPad upon reboot. It’s not ideal, but I did find it cut down on crashes.


----------



## bengoss

Ok, great. Thanks for your replies. I will keep trying and let you know how it goes.
Ben


----------



## jonnybutter

BTW, on Notion for iOS, the GUI is much worse and the workflow not nearly as good or elegant, and I don’t think Notion has the selection of higher end instruments (not that I care about that so much). But handwriting recognition with the Apple Pencil 2 is way less finicky and much easier in Notion, compared to Staffpad. For me anyway. Let’s hope Staffpad gets there


----------



## bengoss

jonnybutter said:


> BTW, on Notion for iOS, the GUI is much worse and the workflow not nearly as good or elegant, and I don’t think Notion has the selection of higher end instruments (not that I care about that so much). But handwriting recognition with the Apple Pencil 2 is way less finicky and much easier in Notion, compared to Staffpad. For me anyway. Let’s hope Staffpad gets there


Yes, I also own Notion and the recognition is much better. Almost no problems. But I like the sounds in Staffpad better. Hopefully they will improve. For me it won’t recognize half note. It just writes quarter whenever I try. 
Ben


----------



## jonnybutter

bengoss said:


> Yes, I also own Notion and the recognition is much better. Almost no problems. But I like the sounds in Staffpad better. Hopefully they will improve. For me it won’t recognize half note. It just writes quarter whenever I try.
> Ben



No wonder you are impatient with Staffpad if you already use Notion. 

Yes, Staffpad is picky and flaky sometimes, and it’s often hard to tell what it is you’re doing wrong. There are only so many ways to write a half note (or a dot or several other things), and I have gotten v frustrated at times too. But I can testify that Staffpad has gotten a lot better in terms of handwriting recognition just in the last 6 months. So as long as they keep developing it, it should get to be pretty good. Prosonus is a bigger outfit than the few people who run SP, and Notion’s been around for a long time. But yeah, there’s almost no learning curve for handwriting recognition in Notion, which is also quite a bit cheaper.

I guess a lot of us think Staffpad will pay dividends eventually. Hope so! Good luck


----------



## Leigh

Give yourself a week and watch the videos, including the 3-hour _Evening With Staffpad._ And remember that it is focused on composing and not engraving. 

**Leigh


----------



## stevebarden

Don't forget this book! (shameless plug)

https://amzn.to/38x2NcV (<a href="https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/front-cover-jpg.42199/"
target="_blank">
<img src="https://vi-control.net/community/data/attachments/40/40986-a711ae822d6efaf649cbc4fc4ea9da59.jpg"
class="bbImage "
style=""
alt="Mastering StaffPad"
title="Mastering StaffPad"
width="300" height="369" />
</a>)
https://amzn.to/38x2NcV


----------



## Montisquirrel

Is there a way to change quarter notes to half notes or to whole notes without deleting and rewriting them? Would love to see a feature like with the tempi, where you just need to hold and drag the letter to change from p to mp to mp etc...


----------



## sundrowned

Montisquirrel said:


> Is there a way to change quarter notes to half notes or to whole notes without deleting and rewriting them? Would love to see a feature like with the tempi, where you just need to hold and drag the letter to change from p to mp to mp etc...


That is how it works. You just need to press and hold and then drag left or right to change note length.


----------



## gussunkri

When working with a piano grand staff, am I right that written dynamics on the lower staff has no effect on the top staff? I seem forced to write dynamics for both staffs.

Also, is it also the case for you that any copying of the piano part erases the pedal markings?


Btw, I have only owned StaffPad for a week, but it is amazing!


----------



## OleJoergensen

gussunkri said:


> When working with a piano grand staff, am I right that written dynamics on the lower staff has no effect on the top staff? I seem forced to write dynamics for both staffs.
> 
> Also, is it also the case for you that any copying of the piano part erases the pedal markings?
> 
> 
> Btw, I have only owned StaffPad for a week, but it is amazing!


You can use cc 11 to adjust the dynamics for both staffs....
Yes at the moment the pedal markings are erased when copying....


----------



## Montisquirrel

sundrowned said:


> That is how it works. You just need to press and hold and then drag left or right to change note length.


Thats what I thought, but press and hold and drag left or right will just play the notes pitch and moves the note to left or right. Am I doing something wrong? I am on Windows by the way.


----------



## sundrowned

Montisquirrel said:


> Thats what I thought, but press and hold and drag left or right will just play the notes pitch and moves the note to left or right. Am I doing something wrong? I am on Windows by the way.


You have to press and hold it for slightly longer before dragging


----------



## Montisquirrel

sundrowned said:


> You have to press and hold it for slightly longer before dragging


Ok, thank you. Its working. It works when dragging it really "far". Ok, this will help my workflow a lot


----------



## Elephant

sundrowned said:


> It's a cheap bamboo pen and touch cth-460. I bought it off ebay for close to nothing specifically to try with staffpad. Panning works with a two finger swipe horizontally and vertically. It's not quite as snappy as I'd like so assigning 'pan and scroll' to one of the pen buttons worked really well. It also means not having to change pen position in my hand to swipe.
> 
> I also have a non touch bamboo ctl-470 and prefer it with that. I'm contemplating getting a touch cth-470 and trying it with that as well.


@sundrowned - did you ever try the cth-470 ?


----------



## sundrowned

Elephant said:


> @sundrowned - did you ever try the cth-470 ?


No, I just use the 460. But I don't use the multi touch function. Just the pen.


----------



## rmak

Does anyone know where I can view the full list and price of both the original/included samples of StaffPad and the 3rd party ones? I am having trouble finding it on the web. It sounds like I'll have to spend around $500 to $600 to get StaffPad with a full 3rd party orchestra? Are there any users that love StaffPad with the stock sounds? 

I also wanted to ask about the new iPad Air vs iPad Pro for StaffPad, and if it is worth waiting 2 months for the new iPad Pro for StaffPad?

Any 11" iPad Pro users that love it and don't have or notice issues with limited screen size?


Thanks!


----------



## Jett Hitt

rmak said:


> Does anyone know where I can view the full list and price of both the original/included samples of StaffPad and the 3rd party ones? I am having trouble finding it on the web. It sounds like I'll have to spend around $500 to $600 to get StaffPad with a full 3rd party orchestra? Are there any users that love StaffPad with the stock sounds?
> 
> I also wanted to ask about the new iPad Air vs iPad Pro for StaffPad, and if it is worth waiting 2 months for the new iPad Pro for StaffPad?
> 
> Any 11" iPad Pro users that love it and don't have or notice issues with limited screen size?
> 
> 
> Thanks!


StaffPad libraries are included with the app. The other major sections are $99 each, so you're looking at $400 for a full third party orchestra. CineSamples libraries were just on sale for two months or so at 50% off. It stands to reason that they will do this again at some point. You can do a lot with the included samples and a third party string library. Berlin Strings would be my first choice, though I own and use them all. So with StaffPad and Berlin Strings, you're looking at less than $200.


----------



## gussunkri

It’s been so much fun working with Stafford, but I just did my first stem export and I notice some annoying crackles in a few places (Berlin flute 1 in a run and Cinebrass 4 horns, and a swell on the Berlin strings cello). Does that happen to you too? I am on an iPad Pro 11 2020.


----------



## daan1412

Question to StaffPad users: would it be good as a learning tool? I mean learning and practicing notation for someone who has been composing only in DAW so far. I think it could be, especially because of the playback features, but I'm curious what's your opinion, maybe I'm missing some cons.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Yes, very much so. Good with soccer study too. You miss so much working in a DAW alone. I use it to practice writing SATB and lots more besides....


----------



## Montisquirrel

daan1412 said:


> Question to StaffPad users: would it be good as a learning tool? I mean learning and practicing notation for someone who has been composing only in DAW so far. I think it could be, especially because of the playback features, but I'm curious what's your opinion, maybe I'm missing some cons.


That is what I am doing. I am new to notation, could only read it a little bit before.
I am doing the ScoreClub Foundation class at the moment and after every new episode I do the homework on paper (as recommend) and after that I write it into StaffPad and it sounds so good. Even the simple voice leading exercises in SATB put into Berlin Strings and it is just awesome. Sure, you can do that in a DAW, but I always hated midi-programming. The audience dont care where the sounds come from when it sounds good, but for me writing real notes on paper and StaffPad is very sexy.


----------



## molemac

Montisquirrel said:


> StaffPad is very sexy.


I agree , especially as you can write in bed , so liberating , no computer, no waiting for plugins to load no mixing , reverbs mikes etc. Just think of a part and write it down and instantly hear it back as good as your daw. It’s insanely more fun , no longer do you think about articulations and libraries and what would sound best , you just write .


----------



## rmak

I have been using staffpad for about a week, and so far it is good. I struggle a bit with getting staffpad to recognize my writing (I have a bit of essential tremors), but it’s gotten better. I am a bit better and faster relative to when I started. I don’t know if anyone started out similarly and has gotten really good and quick with staffpad. I found out that if you write the notes quickly as opposed to slowly and carefully, staffpad sometimes recognizes it better. Maybe that is just me?
I m going to continue to try. I don’t have a fully decked out orchestral library and a fast cpu, so I decided to go with this somewhat cheaper iPad route with staffpad to see if I can potentially compose. I bought all my stuff from private party to save money, and everything has been good so far except for the new/sealed airpod pro I paid $100 for ☹️. The airpod pros work so I’m using it for its function and trying to ignore a subtle tick on the right bud.


----------



## molemac

Worth trying paperlike which stops


rmak said:


> I have been using staffpad for about a week, and so far it is good. I struggle a bit with getting staffpad to recognize my writing (I have a bit of essential tremors), but it’s gotten better. I am a bit better and faster relative to when I started. I don’t know if anyone started out similarly and has gotten really good and quick with staffpad. I found out that if you write the notes quickly as opposed to slowly and carefully, staffpad sometimes recognizes it better. Maybe that is just me?
> I m going to continue to try. I don’t have a fully decked out orchestral library and a fast cpu, so I decided to go with this somewhat cheaper iPad route with staffpad to see if I can potentially compose. I bought all my stuff from private party to save money, and everything has been good so far except for the new/sealed airpod pro I paid $100 for ☹️. The airpod pros work so I’m using it for its function and trying to ignore a subtle tick on the right bud.


 the pen slipping on the glass . I found the hardest thing ironically is inputting notes but I tend to find it’s quicker now to just copy and paste a few notes from existing and re-edit them . Double tapping bars is a good way to do that


----------



## Jett Hitt

molemac said:


> the pen slipping on the glass .


Try a screen protector like Paperlike.


----------



## rmak

Jett Hitt said:


> Try a screen protector like Paperlike.


im using the cheaper bersem, and that is working fine so far.


----------



## Montisquirrel

Quick question: Is it possible to use the stem export for just one instrument or will it always export all intruments of a composition? Right now, the fastest workaround for me is to copy/paste the instrument into a new project and export from there.


----------



## MadLad

Have you tried chosing the solo option for the instrument and then export it the usual way as a wav file?


----------



## Montisquirrel

MadLad said:


> Have you tried chosing the solo option for the instrument and then export it the usual way as a wav file?


Yes. I forgot to mention that. I have tried that, it will still export all instruments.


----------



## giwro

I think before we had stem export, I used to mute all of the instruments but the one I was wanting to export, then export.... (not stems, but the entire file) I haven’t tried it now, but I suspect you could do that.


----------



## Montisquirrel

giwro said:


> I think before we had stem export, I used to mute all of the instruments but the one I was wanting to export, then export.... (not stems, but the entire file) I haven’t tried it now, but I suspect you could do that.


Oh...that's actually a pretty good idea. Haha...why haven't I thought about this before. Thank you.


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## odod

Mike T said:


> A few of them:


very expensive indeed


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## micrologus

yes, but it is worth every penny


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