# How Much Time Do You Spend On a Track? (Library/Trailer/Custom)



## sleepy hollow (Jul 5, 2015)

From firing up your workstation to exporting your final master - how much time do you spend on a track?

Sure, "_it depends_" would be the correct answer here, but there are many more points to talk about. Maybe we can have a healthy discussion, share our thoughts and experiences, and help out some of the younger or less experienced forum members.

Didn't mean to turn this into a survey, but here are some starting points anyway:
- Do you start on a real instrument or is it MIDI-only for you?
- Which discipline consumes most of your time? (mix, arrangement, ...)
- Does (or would) co-writing speed up the process for you?
- How many tracks do you work on at a time? (is that correct english??)

Post away you super-creative productivity monsters!


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## Daryl (Jul 5, 2015)

There are various things to consider.

Do I need to produce a demo, and if so how good does it have to be?
How complex is the music?
Do I need to create any new sounds, or it is using traditional instruments?
Each of these has a bearing on the time it takes to write. However, I consider writing totally separate from production and mixing issues. I also record everything that needs to be recorded, so that requires a different workflow. I can tell you that I spend less time actually writing than supervising all the other parts that are needed to bring an idea from creation to a delivered library track.

D


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## Dean (Jul 5, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> From firing up your workstation to exporting your final master - how much time do you spend on a track?
> 
> Sure, "_it depends_" would be the correct answer here, but there are many more points to talk about. Maybe we can have a healthy discussion, share our thoughts and experiences, and help out some of the younger or less experienced forum members.
> 
> ...



It usually takes me 2 - 3 days to compose,mix and send off a track.I think I compose a lot less tracks than alot of the other trailer/library guys out there,I only compose for cinema trailers (when Im not working on film projects) and work exclusively for one trailer company.Im sure Ive only composed about 100 tracks or so over the last 4 years.I definitely dont work on more than one track at a time,..never tried.
I tend to mix as I compose,..for me the majority of time is spent achieving and maintaining the sound / tone / mix / master etc,.especially if youre also trying to create a signature sound. D


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## RiffWraith (Jul 5, 2015)

What Daryl says.

+

_Do you start on a real instrument or is it MIDI-only for you?_

Always start with MIDI, and then go to real instruments as necessary. Which is hardly ever. Unfortunately.

_Which discipline consumes most of your time? (mix, arrangement, ...)_

The writing bit. I write in my template which is - _for the most part_ - "pre-mixed"; I can open my template, write , and without doing any mixing whatsoever, wind up with a useable and workable cue. Of course the cue is going to be better off if I do some mixing, which is why I do. Some - but not that much.

_Does (or would) co-writing speed up the process for you?
_
You mean working with another composer to work on the same cues? Ick. Working with another composer on _different cues_ can work. But the same ones? Ick.

How many tracks do you work on at a time?

One. Start track. Finish track. Start track.

_(is that correct english??)_

Not with the lower case 'e' it isn't (insert tongue smiley). Yes, the English there is fine.

_how much time do you spend on a track?_

Why, it depends!

Bearing in mind the cues I write are in the neighborhood of 1:15 - 1:30 (with an occasional exception).... If I am writing "drama tension" cues, I usually do four a day. If I am writing "action hybrid" cues, I usually do two a day. Orchestral cues, either two a day, or one, depending on complexity. That's completed, mixed, mastered, ready-to-be-delivered cues.

Cheers.


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## R. Soul (Jul 5, 2015)

RiffWraith said:


> What Daryl says.
> 
> _how much time do you spend on a track?_
> 
> ...


So, minimum 500 tracks a year, maybe 1000.

This is what I don't get...

There's only a few big libraries - let's say 10. Maybe 20. I think that's being generous. 
Now, the libraries I know only publish around 1 album a week. 
So, maybe 15.600 tracks between the libraries a year (20 libraries x 15 tracks a week x 52 weeks).

If every composer who get's tracks published by those libraries are as productive as you, only *31 composers* can get tracks placed a year (15.600 / 500).

I have no idea how many libraries that are around but let's say 200 for the sake of making the calculation easier. 
That's 310 composers, which is really not a lot of people. 

So, either most people write a lot less, there's a lot more libraries around, or some libraries takes on an incredible amount of tracks ? Cause I can't believe there's that few composers aroun.

I know ANW have like 90.000 tracks and they hardly take on any new composers. Is there really libraries that have 2, 3, 4, 5 times that amount?


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## Daryl (Jul 5, 2015)

There are many composers who only do a few tracks a year, and many composers who don't do library or even music full time. For myself I historically have never done more than 30 tracks in a year.

FWIW I think that EMI releases around 16 albums per month and most of them are multi composer albums.

D


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 5, 2015)

R. Soul said:


> So, minimum 500 tracks a year, maybe 1000.





R. Soul said:


> 15 tracks a week x 52 weeks



Hm, the calculation is based on false assumptions. I highly doubt he's working 52 weeks a year.
Anyway, I'm not RiffWraith - so we'll wait for him to reply.


R. Soul said:


> I know ANW have like 90.000 tracks and they hardly take on any new composers. Is there really libraries that have 2, 3, 4, 5 times that amount?


There's one with 416.841 tracks. https://www.sonoton.de


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## RiffWraith (Jul 5, 2015)

R. Soul said:


> So, minimum 500 tracks a year, maybe 1000.
> 
> This is what I don't get....
> 
> ...and they hardly take on any new composers. Is there really libraries that have 2, 3, 4, 5 times that amount?



Sorta 

As for amount of tracks: in 2013 & 2014 I did just under 400 and just under 300, respectively. So far this year, I am just shy of 100 tracks done. Which means about 200 for the year. I have had some other stuff going on, and will for the rest of the year. So it may not even be 200. 2012 and before, it was a lot less. I got better, and I got faster.

And I do think most people write a lot less. I know Daryl does. Daryl - what is it, 20-30 per year?

Also, while I am sure that there are some libraries that only publish around 1 album a week; I am also sure that's not the norm.

Cheers.


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## Dean (Jul 5, 2015)

Can't believe the amounts of tracks you guys are talking about composing,..hundreds per year or more! Library work must be a whole other ball of wax from composing bespoke cinema trailer cues. D


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## Greg (Jul 5, 2015)

Dean said:


> Can't believe the amounts of tracks you guys are talking about composing,..hundreds per year or more! Library work must be a whole other ball of wax from composing bespoke cinema trailer cues. D



That's what I was thinking too, but not even bespoke, just writing for trailer albums even. It all depends on the quality of aesthetic and ideas you hold yourself to and what you're competing against. For me, also striving to write licensable trailer music, 2-5 days per piece and 50 tracks a year-ish. Sometimes I spend weeks just creating sounds.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 5, 2015)

Dean said:


> Library work must be a whole other ball of wax from composing bespoke cinema trailer cues. D



It is. Cinema Trailer Cues and underscore for 'The Bachelorette' and 'In The Bedroom With Dr. Laura Berman' ain't exactly the same thing.

Cheers.


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## Dean (Jul 5, 2015)

Greg said:


> That's what I was thinking too, but not even bespoke, just writing for trailer albums even. It all depends on the quality of aesthetic and ideas you hold yourself to and what you're competing against. For me, also striving to write licensable trailer music, 2-5 days per piece and 50 tracks a year-ish. Sometimes I spend weeks just creating sounds.



Thats more like my speed! 
One very strong cue can do more damage with multible licenses than a whole album of solid but 'run of the mill' cues but I agree it depends on the music you want to put out there and the project and client you want to work for,..but sometimes you just gots to pay those bills too. D


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## Daryl (Jul 6, 2015)

Number of tracks is meaningless without talking about the style and usage of the tracks. I don't mean to be offensive, but pretty much all library music is designed to be disposable. It all depends on the timescale.

For example, a nicely recorded traditional orchestral album will have a smallish usage, as it's not really the current trend, but precisely because it's not the current trend, it can't go any more out of fashion than it already is. So the usage may well be up to 20 years. Conversely, a dub step album might have been up-to-date when it was written, but 3 years later it will have almost no usage (comparatively) at all. So if it hasn't made any money in that time, it probably never will.

There is also the disposable element to take into consideration. There are clients who want to feel they are using new music all the time. It actually doesn't matter that it sounds sort of samey, and unoriginal as long as it's packaged as new. This is what I mean by disposable.

When you are writing library tracks you have to know what category you are working in, so that you apportion time and expense wisely. There is no point in spending £30K recording a great sounding album, if it falls into the disposable category.

@RiffWraith - Yes, normally it would be 30-40 tracks a year, not more. Although in the last 12 months it has been in excess of 150 for some reason....!

D


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## hirnkatheter (Jul 6, 2015)

*- Do you start on a real instrument or is it MIDI-only for you?*
It depends. When it comes to Metal/Rock; Guitar is my weapon of choice.
*- Which discipline consumes most of your time? (mix, arrangement, ...)*
Composing / Finding the right sounds
*- Does (or would) co-writing speed up the process for you?*
Nope
*- How many tracks do you work on at a time? (is that correct english??)*
up to 4 tracks, sometimes even more

There are so many things that have an impact on schedule. So a track can be finished within an hour and sometimes it takes days.


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## Dean (Jul 6, 2015)

Daryl said:


> Number of tracks is meaningless without talking about the style and usage of the tracks. I don't mean to be offensive, but pretty much all library music is designed to be disposable. It all depends on the timescale.
> 
> For example, a nicely recorded traditional orchestral album will have a smallish usage, as it's not really the current trend, but precisely because it's not the current trend, it can't go any more out of fashion than it already is. So the usage may well be up to 20 years. Conversely, a dub step album might have been up-to-date when it was written, but 3 years later it will have almost no usage (comparatively) at all. So if it hasn't made any money in that time, it probably never will.
> 
> ...



Disposable music!,writing 100s of cues per year!,..musically speaking that sounds like my worst nightmare
(but in real life its actually cotton wool! ) I worked for years scoring tv animation series(52 x 11 mins eps etc, and sometimes had to deliver 3 episodes a week plus revisions,..hell of a boot camp though!)I hated most of it for the same reasons,...I felt most of the clients never really gave a f**k as long as it filled a space and added to the noise,..(after 10 years of composing that stuff I'd probably only put about 10 minutes of it on a showreel.) Its all part of staying in the game and climbing the ladder of course but if you do it too long its very hard to break away and so easy to burn out! D


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## Daryl (Jul 6, 2015)

Dean, from that workflow description it's obvious that you understand only too well what disposable music is, and how little attachment one must feel to it in order to survive. 

D


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## gsilbers (Jul 6, 2015)

one track per day for library music.
but some guys do like 4 tracks a day.

for those who find this weird. take in consideration that making tracks fast is about _learning_ how to make tracks fast. you see what works and you find short cuts via key commands or when sequencing or chord progression/melodies that are laid down fast. if you normally do not see people working fast, then it never enters your mind.
once you see how people are sequencing at lighting speed and still making some cool tracks then it makes you think that way and you try to find out how. its thinking 3 steps ahead, knowing already exactly what you are going to do before starting and having a good sounding template and also practicing your instrument to get your chops up to speed.
for library music, it doesn't pay if it takes a week to do a track.
but still, don't think library music is somehow easier or whatever. any music you can do fast. its not about the quality. you can do quality music fast. again... and very important.... its about LEARNING how to make tracks in a fast way. just like you learn scales, your DAW etc... there is also LEARNING HOW TO MAKE TRACKS FAST.

practice making a john William type track... then do a similar track but limit yourself to one day for the whole thing. or one day for one minute, or whatever... but race against yourself, see where you get stuck and learn, then do another track and do it faster. LEARN how to do it.


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## Daryl (Jul 6, 2015)

gsilbers said:


> ....library music, it doesn't pay if it takes a week to do a track.


That depends on what you're writing and what for. I can honestly say that if I could write 4 tracks a day to the same (alleged) quality as I'm writing now, I would be unbelievably rich....!

D


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## Dean (Jul 6, 2015)

Daryl said:


> That depends on what you're writing and what for. I can honestly say that if I could write 4 tracks a day to the same (alleged) quality as I'm writing now, I would be unbelievably rich....!
> 
> D



That last post by gsilbers actually gave me shivers!..I could never work that way,even when I was doing animation series.As I mentioned I only compose bespoke cues for cinema trailers and after every single track I feel like Ive gone a round with an MMA fighter and also donated a few pints of blood,...one a week is the most I could do at that level. 
Its not a productivity/speed thing I recently just scored a feature and ended up writing about 4 hours of music,once youre 'possessed' by a project and its all 'under your fingertips' then you compose like a demon but theres no way I could jump around from track to track with a stop watch just knocking them out. D


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 6, 2015)

Pretty interesting insight so far and already quite an amount of diversity. Will post some questions and observations at a later time.

I guess I'm in the _lotsa-tracks-per-year _camp. Even if I'm still in my first year of writing stuff for libraries, I know that I will stay productive and enjoy the whole thing (for the most part). Though I wouldn't wanna be in the shoes of one of the 22 year olds (fresh outta school!) on here, who seem to be very concerned about wether or not they should write for libs/pursue a studio musician career/etc.

Currently I invest most of my hours into a collaboration where I seem to be the _track-writer_ and the other guy acts as a _producer of sorts._ Meaning he may add a few elements, mixes a bit and sends the stuff out to the libraries we have been talking about before.
I gotta say I really enjoy it that way. That wouldn't work for everyone, I guess, since all the _checking-in-your-ego-at-the-door _stuff needs to be taken care of before you even start with the first track. Whenever I think a track is finished, not only do I hand over the files, but I also give my partner completely free reign, and he can work with the stuff as he sees fit.

Things are moving pretty fast, although were still far from top speed. Having plenty of experience in live sound really helps; it makes you a decisive person. Writer's block? Hm, maybe when I have more time...

As far as my template, I don't have one. My machine couldn't handle a very big template, but I got plenty of smaller ones. Once in a while I realize I'm on the wrong template, so I just drag the midi files to a better one. 

Things that are not so cool:
- I need some kind of track name generator. Too many tracks, not enough (working) titles.
- Need to improve on organisational things. I spend too much time on things like backups, file transfer, etc.
- I simply need to get faster with the piano roll.
-


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## gsilbers (Jul 6, 2015)

Daryl said:


> That depends on what you're writing and what for. I can honestly say that if I could write 4 tracks a day to the same (alleged) quality as I'm writing now, I would be unbelievably rich....!
> 
> D


you are stuck on the wrong topic. its about LEARNING HOW TO DO IT. not about ,, man'that's some crazy (any negative) stuff.


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 6, 2015)

I don't consider that negative. That was neutral (and perfectly right).


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## gsilbers (Jul 6, 2015)

Dean said:


> That last post by gsilbers actually gave me shivers!..I could never work that way,even when I was doing animation series.As I mentioned I only compose bespoke cues for cinema trailers and after every single track I feel like Ive gone a round with an MMA fighter and also donated a few pints of blood,...one a week is the most I could do at that level.
> Its not a productivity/speed thing I recently just scored a feature and ended up writing about 4 hours of music,once youre 'possessed' by a project and its all 'under your fingertips' then you compose like a demon but theres no way I could jump around from track to track with a stop watch just knocking them out. D



have you seen how other composers write on similar series?
but yep, one of the ways of getting faster is "getting into it" faster.
that's actually for me one of the tough parts. once it happens you lay down melodies, chords, etc fast. no second guessing, you know as a first person and as a third person aka the audience what works and what doesn't.
but yes, that muse is the one that's actually making everyone not work as fast. and what keeps the nay sayers bitching about quality vs quantity and any other negative comment. anything to not confront that.
its the same process that happens when there is a deadline and there very little time. its learning how to tame that crunch so it happens when you want instead.


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## gsilbers (Jul 6, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> I don't consider that negative. That was neutral (and perfectly right).



nope.. not negative against me 
negative against your wallet
whatever happened to the other emoticons.. hmm. oh well.


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## gsilbers (Jul 6, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> Pretty interesting insight so far and already quite an amount of diversity. Will post some questions and observations at a later time.
> 
> I guess I'm in the _lotsa-tracks-per-year _camp. Even if I'm still in my first year of writing stuff for libraries, I know that I will stay productive and enjoy the whole thing (for the most part). Though I wouldn't wanna be in the shoes of one of the 22 year olds (fresh outta school!) on here, who seem to be very concerned about wether or not they should write for libs/pursue a studio musician career/etc.
> 
> ...




ha! track name generator. so true.
If its for library music I try to imagine a scene and how would it be used and the characters.
which btw - for library music the editors use a set of tracks for specific characters. so that sometimes helps me. if not, I use the name of a synth preset I started with and expand on that. so maybe "predator bitch" "predator awakes" "predatory challenge" and so on. hehe. but yes, I feel dumb sometimes looking at the screen for 5 minutes thinking on a name of a track.


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## Valérie_D (Jul 6, 2015)

Right now, I'm in my first year of writing library music, mostly piano-cello cues these days. I am learning finale at the same time because it turned out that I'm not that good at interpreting my own music right on tempo, since the cello will be recorded. 

last week, I could compose 1 piece in 2 days, and this week, since I got finale down, it's one piece a day, which is a pace that suits me.


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## chillbot (Jul 6, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> - I need some kind of track name generator. Too many tracks, not enough (working) titles



thesaurus.com.... this is one of my most-used bookmarks.


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## chillbot (Jul 6, 2015)

I try to average 3.5/day every day of the year so if I go on vacation I have to make up for it. I've written roughly 12,000 tracks over the past 10 years and 15,000 tracks over the past 15 years. I'm the king of disposable music!


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 6, 2015)

gsilbers said:


> nope.. not negative against me
> negative against your wallet
> whatever happened to the other emoticons.. hmm. oh well.


Ah okay, I see.


gsilbers said:


> nay sayers bitching about quality vs quantity


Oh yeah, that's a fruitless discussion. I totally understand when some people don't want to bang out one track after another, but saying "it can't be done without sounding horrible" is a bit ignorant.


gsilbers said:


> name of a synth preset


I discovered the synth preset trick a few months ago. :D But it still is annoying. I mean, most of the tracks will be renamed by my cowriter, so it doesn't have to be a good name. Can't do without naming the tracks, though.
New track #57 isn't very informative for me.


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 6, 2015)

chillbot said:


> I've written roughly 12,000 tracks over the past 10 years





chillbot said:


> I'm the king of disposable music!


Man, your username seems familiar... You're that multitasking (and self-proclaimed ADHD) guy, whose post I quoted... It's an older thread, so I doubt you've seen it. It was about playing on Full Tilt while composing.
I gotta see if I can find the thread.

I will try the thesaurus idea!


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## chillbot (Jul 6, 2015)

Yeah that's right.... I miss full tilt so much! I haven't visited here in a while I just popped in to see the new forum.


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 6, 2015)

chillbot said:


> Yeah that's right.... I miss full tilt so much! I haven't visited here in a while I just popped in to see the new forum.


Well, Full Tilt had a great software, so I can relate... Stay with us in the new forum and let us know how you managed to write 12.000 tracks in a decade. I'd really like to know...

How did you name them? Thesaurus? :D


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## chillbot (Jul 6, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> Stay with us in the new forum and let us know how you managed to write 12.000 tracks in a decade. I'd really like to know...



I've always attributed it to two things. 1) Being on a PC (Sonar) instead of a Mac (Logic) like every other composer I know in Los Angeles. This is probably a lot less important now as I think the two are pretty equal, it just seemed like for years I would watch my friends on Macs wait and wait and wait for every little thing and crash a bunch, whereas everything on a PC (like loading a file) was instantaneous, no waiting. And I probably crashed on average once a year. 2) Taking organization to an insane level. I could probably write a book on it but no way I could explain it all here, plus it would sound crazy. Something to keep in mind: every mouse click is important! You might not think so but it adds up... every mouse click adds up to time wasted. I might spend a week out of the year organizing but it saves me months over the long run. Little things like: I have 16-20 external synths with probably 20-30,000 patches (just a guess). I've renamed every patch within Sonar to include a searchable instrument like guitar, keys, pad, synth, lead, etc. So a Roland patch called "Dirty Reed" becomes "Dirty Reed Organ" so if I type in "Organ" I instantly get every organ patch I have. I've organized the entire file structure of my acid libraries and kontakt libraries so that nothing is ever more than 4 folders deep from the root folder, this is super important when searching for sounds (every mouse click). Also all my acid files are renamed (if appropriate) to include tempo and key in the title of the folder so I can search my hard drive for "110 Am" and every sample on the drive in that key and tempo becomes instantly available.


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## R. Soul (Jul 6, 2015)

Man, I need to get more productive. Actually, most of all I just need more available time :(
12.000 though - wow. Where does one place that amount of tracks? 
Is it places like Audio sparx and Jingle punks? I'm not really familiar with the whole RF scene.


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## kclements (Jul 6, 2015)

I'm completing anywhere from 75-90 cues a year. I know that includes "disposable" cues but I always strive to do my best work. I don't get into much of the Quality v Quantity argument, as I think it is 1 - useless and 2, it's different for everyone. What is quality to me, might not be quality to you and vis versa. And that's ok. 

I know people making a good living in Library Music doing around 100-150 cues a year. The ones in the bigger WFH libraries generally do fewer cues, those of us in the non-exclusive libraries tend to do more. I am hoping to break into the bigger WFH libraries soon. But until I do I keep my head down, try always to make the current cue better than the last, and learn from my mistakes. I'm also always on the lookout for ways to improve my writing.


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 6, 2015)

chillbot said:


> Taking organization to an insane level.





chillbot said:


> every mouse click adds up to time wasted


Yeah, I notice more and more of those little things that take up my time and I'm very eager to find good solutions. You seem to have a real knack for organization, I'll probably never make it to that level. Anyway, I'll see how it works out for me.

Thanks for the insight. Appreciated!


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## chillbot (Jul 6, 2015)

chillbot said:


> And I probably crashed on average once a year.



Yup. Never in the history of jinxes could there be a more surefire jinx. Oops.


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## chillbot (Jul 6, 2015)

Luckily ctrl+S is like a nervous tick with me I bet I do it every 5 or 6 seconds in my sleep.


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## Daryl (Jul 6, 2015)

gsilbers said:


> you are stuck on the wrong topic. its about LEARNING HOW TO DO IT. not about ,, man'that's some crazy (any negative) stuff.


I don't consider that to be negative. Just honest. TBA I would struggle typing 4 tracks a day, never mind writing them as well. However, maybe I'm just slow.

D


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 6, 2015)

chillbot said:


> And I probably crashed on average once a year.



Hey, that means more time to write tracks, no?


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## Dean (Jul 6, 2015)

gsilbers said:


> have you seen how other composers write on similar series?
> but yep, one of the ways of getting faster is "getting into it" faster.
> that's actually for me one of the tough parts. once it happens you lay down melodies, chords, etc fast. no second guessing, you know as a first person and as a third person aka the audience what works and what doesn't.
> but yes, that muse is the one that's actually making everyone not work as fast. and what keeps the nay sayers bitching about quality vs quantity and any other negative comment. anything to not confront that.
> its the same process that happens when there is a deadline and there very little time. its learning how to tame that crunch so it happens when you want instead.



Hey. yeah,I worked with the craziest deadlines on tv animation series for a decade,I know what it feels like to pump out hundreds of mixed cues every couple of months all synched to picture,.maybe thats why I get shivers.
I dont mind pressure at all,I definitely work better under pressure,..I think art produced without any limitations usually limits the art itself.
I agree with Sleepy Hollow too,..I can't stand bitching about quality v quantity,..its the same as those useless threads about the quality of film and trailer music these days,..why has film music changed?,'scores are'nt as good as they were','no counterpoint',..good god stop moaning about the past,compose some incredible music within these genres/structures or get another line of work. D


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## kclements (Jul 6, 2015)

Dean said:


> good god stop moaning about the past,compose some incredible music within these genres/structures or get another line of work. D



+1 (opps, I guess I'm supposed to _like_ that now.)


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## Dean (Jul 6, 2015)

kclements said:


> +1 (opps, I guess I'm supposed to _like_ that now.)


Yeah,next I hope we can start uploading photos from private occasions without anyones consent and pics of our fav cocktails we ordered on holiday.


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## kclements (Jul 6, 2015)

Dean said:


> Yeah,next I hope we can start uploading photos from private occasions without anyones consent and pics of our fav cocktails we ordered on holiday.



And be able to Tag the photos with people's name - again without consent!:D


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 6, 2015)

Daryl said:


> nicely recorded traditional orchestral album will have a smallish usage





Daryl said:


> the usage may well be up to 20 years


Pretty long shelf life. From a monetary point of view you should stop working way before your retirement. 
I know, stupid sentence... You surely know what I mean.

I'm saying that because your production cost seems to be way higher than for the other sorts of tracks were talking about here, and it surely takes a while before those productions recoup their cost.
Oh well, you seem to like your job - work/live long and prosper!:D


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 6, 2015)

RiffWraith said:


> I write in my template which is - _for the most part_ - "pre-mixed"


I've seen a post where you talked about your template. 640 tracks iirc. Well, that does partly explain your high output.


RiffWraith said:


> Working with another composer on _different cues_ can work. But the same ones? Ick.


On different cues? So you mean pooling tracks to get albums done faster?


RiffWraith said:


> _(is that correct english??)_
> Not with the lower case 'e'


Damnit! :D


RiffWraith said:


> Always start with MIDI, and then go to real instruments as necessary. Which is hardly ever. Unfortunately.


To keep production cost low, I assume?


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 6, 2015)

Dean said:


> I definitely dont work on more than one track at a time,..never tried.


Interesting. I'd probably go either nuts or bonkers if I had to work that way. So many ideas would be lost if I had to finish my track before doing any else! Oh my!

Back when I was doing lots of recording/production work for rock/metal bands, well, then the current band in the house was priority #1. Didn't do anything else on the side. But that was probably because I had to deal with lots of people around me, while trailer work seems to be very solitary in comparison.
Would it slow you down or decrease the quality if you choose to open up a second or even third project?


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## chillbot (Jul 6, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> Interesting. I'd probably go either nuts or bonkers if I had to work that way



Agreed... I could never do one at a time. IF your aim is speed (not that speed need be a factor or priority), it seems very inefficient to work on one track at a time... it's so easy to get "stuck" tweaking or "trying to finish" a track. Normally for me in writing a track the first 90% of the track is the easiest and takes half the time, the last 10% takes the other half. I guess I find it easier to finish tracks if I'm jumping around. Also, sometimes I write 90% of the track and put it aside to come back to later, and when I come back to it I realize I actually wrote 100% of the track and it's finished.

I'm right now working on finishing 100 tracks all at once... but that's unusual for me, I've never tried it before and it's really pushing my organizational skills to the limit. Normal for me is working on 10-12 at once.


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## Dean (Jul 6, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> Interesting. I'd probably go either nuts or bonkers if I had to work that way. So many ideas would be lost if I had to finish my track before doing any else! Oh my!
> 
> Back when I was doing lots of recording/production work for rock/metal bands, well, then the current band in the house was priority #1. Didn't do anything else on the side. But that was probably because I had to deal with lots of people around me, while trailer work seems to be very solitary in comparison.
> Would it slow you down or decrease the quality if you choose to open up a second or even third project?



Dont get me wrong,..no matter what I'm working on or even the schedule I will always chase an idea when it comes along,.the amount of times I get ideas when Im working on a track up against the clock is nuts, but I love that,..ideas are so precious I'll always jump straight to another section of the session and quickly capture that idea before it dissipates and the moments gone.Once I was composing a track and I had another small idea so I quickly sketched it out,..that idea ended up landing my very first trailer gig for Prometheus and recently got licensed again for a massive game franchise! Ive worked on overlapping projects countless times,I meant I would'nt work on multible tracks as a method of working,..if no other decent idea comes to me I'll stay in the world of that track/project untill its done and dusted.
D


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## Daryl (Jul 6, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> Pretty long shelf life. From a monetary point of view you should stop working way before your retirement.
> I know, stupid sentence... You surely know what I mean.
> 
> I'm saying that because your production cost seems to be way higher than for the other sorts of tracks were talking about here, and it surely takes a while before those productions recoup their cost.
> Oh well, you seem to like your job - work/live long and prosper!:D


You're exactly right. The day I decide to retire I become much richer....!

However, part of the fun for me is working with the musicians. I guess that's because of my background as a performer. If I didn't have those skills I probably would miss the live element less.

Having said that, music is so much a part of me that I will never retire. I'll just do other things. If I need a big influx of cash I'll just sell the mechanicals of my tracks. I'll still get an income from the Broadcast Royalties, and TBH nobody needs much money if they don't have a mortgage or rent to pay.

D


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 6, 2015)

chillbot said:


> I'm right now working on finishing 100 tracks all at once... but that's unusual for me, I've never tried it before and it's really pushing my organizational skills to the limit. Normal for me is working on 10-12 at once.


100 is a lot! I'm still figuring out how manage my current workload. A folder with 15-20 tracks is my 'production folder'. Works okay, but sometimes I get confused. Maybe I should limit it to 10 tracks at a time.



Dean said:


> jump straight to another section of the session and quickly capture that idea before it dissipates





Dean said:


> that idea ended up landing my very first trailer gig for Prometheus


Yes, always try to capture ideas, no matter how! Especially when it's gonna get you the Prometheus gig! :D

As for the ideas that show up when writing or mixing, yes, sometimes it is crazy. I get nothing done, but somehow end up with plenty of separate Cubase projects, which hopefully will turn into full tracks one day.

Oh, and congrats on the Prometheus gig. Checked out your soundcloud and got stuck on a certain section of your Fury track - think it's about halfway through when the strings and the voice kick in. I'd bathe in atmospheres like that, if it were possible! Good job!


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## Dean (Jul 6, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> 100 is a lot! I'm still figuring out how manage my current workload. A folder with 15-20 tracks is my 'production folder'. Works okay, but sometimes I get confused. Maybe I should limit it to 10 tracks at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey, yeah,its the idea that really counts,..once you have that you can shape and mould it! 
Thanks alot re my 'Fury' trailer track! Bathe away! I had a great female vocalist come in and do multible takes as Soprano and Alto.Tried to get the cellos and voices to meld together as much as possible. D


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## R. Soul (Jul 8, 2015)

It's all good 'being fast in your DAW', but my problem is coming up with enough ideas for a track in the first place, and then another one, and another one.
I guess I like my tracks to sound a fair bit different, but I suppose if you bang out tunes every other hour you make a lot of similar ones? Is it simply a case of finishing one and then doing another using the exact same (or close) instrumentation, BPM, chords etc. ?


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 8, 2015)

R. Soul said:


> I guess I like my tracks to sound a fair bit different, but I suppose if you bang out tunes every other hour you make a lot of similar ones?


No, the speed I got now doesn't have anything to do with repetition. I will write some lines about what I do and how I do it later this day (gotta actually think about what I do, before I start describing the process). Basically I don't do anything special. I'm just fast at putting fresh ideas into some kind of layout/project.



R. Soul said:


> Is it simply a case of finishing one and then doing another using the exact same (or close) instrumentation, BPM, chords etc. ?


I'd be bored to death in no time, which would decrease my output.


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## zacnelson (Jul 8, 2015)

I'm looking forward to your post Sleepy Hollow!


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## scottbuckley (Jul 9, 2015)

Wow. Some of your track counts are huge, guys!

*Do you start on a real instrument or is it MIDI-only for you?*

MIDI baby! It's been like that since the dawn of time. 

*Which discipline consumes most of your time? (mix, arrangement, ...)*

Arrangement. I usually find that the mixing happens as I arrange anyway.

*Does (or would) co-writing speed up the process for you?*

Oh noes. I hate writing with other people. I always want to have my own way. 

*How many tracks do you work on at a time?*

When I was working, I was a 2-3 days/track kinda guy. Some tracks come more easily, so I could spit some out within a day. I found that anything quicker compromised on quality, and clients and myself were always dissapointed in some way.


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## kurtvanzo (Jul 11, 2015)

Sometimes I can get a cue done in an hour or two (if it's clear in my head and simple) or two days (if it's complex or needs more work). But working in TV helped me to see why working under a fast deadline or with others can help. The fast deadline shows me that good work can be done fast (a few great cues, but yes, a number of sub-par ones as well, but none that were rejected or replaced) and sometimes benefit from not being overworked. Also a number of Film and TV directors have forced me to go in directions I never would have gone for by myself, and I eventually learned that those are some of my best cues!

This also got me more work because I was seen as "versital", which is key for a Tv or film composer because of the need to be a music camileon- scene to scene- tension, chase, eerie jazz, reaction cues, back to a chase- it can be an emotional roller coaster. Serving the directors vision is the job, and that train can go anywhere, but it stretches you in ways I would never want to miss, and definitely helps me prioritize and inform what I do now.


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