# Big fat ass drums with big fat ass sub-bass?



## tokatila (Apr 16, 2016)

Let's say you have a sub-bass doubling contrabasses an octave lower.

Then the really big boys (looking at you Surdu Ensemble) come in; do you sidechain the sub-bass like a real EDM producer?







Or

do you carve a hole to the sub-bass where the big hit is?






Or

do you even care?


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## pkm (Apr 16, 2016)

I've done both and it depends on the context. I find deadmau5 to allow for more punch than the crater.


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## Saxer (Apr 17, 2016)

You don't have to solve problems if there are no problems.
So I'd just stop doubling the basses when the big hits comes in.


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## Baron Greuner (Apr 17, 2016)

There's a couple of options that come to mind. The 1176 compressor British Nuclear option and/or something like the Studer A800(?) or Oxide tape plugin option.


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## pixel (Apr 20, 2016)

I think it's better to make space for sub bass in frequency range than sidechaining in this example as, if sub bass is going to replace contrabass playing in that range, there's not much impression for listener. *Of course it's all depends on content and what medium.* 
I prefer to use sidechain with Bass - Kick Drum relation as bass have longer notes and Kick is shorter and more 'punchy' sound. I'm doing it for my all electronic dance music productions. 
Another thing is, double bass barely need additional sub bass octave below, it's what I learn from my own experience as it was what I have did in my first productions with orchestral instruments: better to do right arrangement than working with 'messy soup' in low range


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## dgburns (Apr 20, 2016)

the big fat assed bass would get pushed down by the big fat assed kick if the two were strapped to a big fat assed compressor,obviously set to big fat assed setting (ie fast attack and release) so the big fat assed kick would push down the big fat assed bass when the kick hits the comp,creating a big fat assed groove.
big...fat...assed

course you could try the sidechain thing,but imo,sidechaining does the same thing in this case.You could try a tremolo/lfo plugin set to the speed of the song ramping up volume from zero to full,so the bass is down when the kick hits and comes up right after, a la David Guetta.


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## chimuelo (Apr 20, 2016)

HPF is a sub freq friend.
In reality a High Pass Filter exposes the sub frequencies as you strip away all high frequencies.

Always get a kick out of guys claiming they use HPFilters to get rid of low end on a Reverb or Contra/Cello channel.
They are confused as an LPF filters out low end content.

Those big boomy trunks on low rider vehicles know HPF better than anyone.
They consider their seperate EQ on subs as a Bass Booster when you can see all high freqs were cut.

Take a High Pass Filter and try it out.
Sidechaining is good and the LFO/Tremolo trick is new to me so thanks.
Thats the best tip I heard this month.

Im a sidechainer kind of guy with HPF preferences when focused fatness is the goal.


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## dgburns (Apr 20, 2016)

chimuelo said:


> HPF is a sub freq friend.
> In reality a High Pass Filter exposes the sub frequencies as you strip away all high frequencies.
> 
> Always get a kick out of guys claiming they use HPFilters to get rid of low end on a Reverb or Contra/Cello channel.
> ...



I could be wrong here,but it seems to me "High Pass Filter' means it lets the highs....well....pass through.... um

So HPF rolls up the bottom,and a LPF rolls down the top.

Possibly semantics at play....but I could be wrong brostein

-edit- here's a link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-pass_filter


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## emid (Apr 20, 2016)

I am also confused now chim... 
But that tremolo trick is really a big fat ass trick.


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## afterlight82 (Apr 20, 2016)

a little confused too by the post, but there is truth to the fact that you can use a high pass filter to improve (and with resonance, emphasize and even lift the level of) the bass...

per original question I try and avoid doing this automatically with a side chain...if it's an orchestral or orchestral hybrid kind of situation, you are usually much better off automating it. That's not to say compression can't work...but if you have a mixer for the track let them do that especially if it is for theater, as you want to be sure they have control over what bass material is in the mains/sub and the level of it, so if you do compress it, retain an original uncompressed version muted in the mix session. 

A good trick if you do want to duck the sub bass is to have the sub bass pulse almost unnoticeablely, but just slightly, such that it's an eighth note pattern with a small dip in level between notes, for example...this way when you duck it you will get less of a "suck back" effect, which may help it not sound like David Guetta (unless you want that!).

The old ATC Creamer patch in trilogy was a great alternative in the right octave (as is finding a low pitched tuned gong sound, like the bottom of a gamelan kind of pitched gong, and doubling significant harmony bass notes of strings)....


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## chimuelo (Apr 20, 2016)

My knobs are funny I guess.
When I turn the knob right it allows HFs to pass through meaning I hear them.
On a full left position I hear Subs since HFs were cut.

Maybe I should try software filters.
All of those zeros and ones might sound different than discrete audio.


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## guydoingmusic (Apr 20, 2016)

Throw out another option for you. Use Multiband Compressor instead of EQ.


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## Guffy (Apr 20, 2016)

dgburns said:


> I could be wrong here,but it seems to me "High Pass Filter' means it lets the highs....well....pass through.... um
> 
> So HPF rolls up the bottom,and a LPF rolls down the top.


Aye.





I wonder why "Low/High Pass" is even a thing. Why not just call it LowCut/HighCut?


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## chimuelo (Apr 20, 2016)

Hey Fugdup.
Saw your avatar by the auditorium I worked at and snapped a photo.


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## MA-Simon (Apr 20, 2016)

As a kid, I would have been all over that tree, climbing to the top and giving my parents nightmares.


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## tokatila (Apr 20, 2016)

Cheers guys; thank you for the suggestions. And the big fat ass tree.


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## Guffy (Apr 21, 2016)

chimuelo said:


> Hey Fugdup.
> Saw your avatar by the auditorium I worked at and snapped a photo.


That's a nice tree.


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## chimuelo (Apr 21, 2016)

Magnolia.
Looked like the Hartford logo.
Its bigger than it looks as those branches have a 6 foot clearance.


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## Greg (Apr 21, 2016)

Better than side-chaining https://www.xferrecords.com/products/lfotool


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## dgburns (Apr 21, 2016)

Greg said:


> Better than side-chaining https://www.xferrecords.com/products/lfotool



Thnx Greg,that's the plugin I was thinking about (must be getting dopey after my holidays,still got mexico on the brain)


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## pkm (Apr 21, 2016)

Something like LFO Tool is great if the pattern is regular, but if the rhythm is anything but steady or you want the two sounds to really glue together as one, I think a sidechained compressor is the way to go. This is because it can both shape the dip of the compressed signal to match the exact shape of the key input signal, and can follow any irregularity in they key input as far as note length, volume, etc.


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## germancomponist (Apr 21, 2016)

Or use Melodyne and invert one of the eq envelopes ... .


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## chimuelo (Apr 21, 2016)

Yuze guys need a Native Developer to make a multi BUS Sidechain VCA Compressor.
Somebody out there has to be using one instead of 4....

Mine has 8 Mono Sidechain inputs, I run them as Stereo Pairs.
4 x Stereo BUS Mixer sends whatever I want over my already well focused low end.
LPF and Drive Settings ensure no extra woofy freq's cut into the Mixer Stereo Out > Stereo In of the Compressor.

The low end has already been made Mono by Brainrox BX Digital, soon to be out in UAD.
Shit is tight as a Gnats Ass.


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