# How to create Lush string (EWQL SO Plat & HS Silver) ?



## markwind (Jan 15, 2014)

Dear all,

So as a means of improving my virtual compositions I decided on recreating Courtyard Apocalypse by Alexandre Desplatt. One of my favorite soundtracks. Original here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaxkSlvwzpo

As I was working only with EWQL SO, I found it was quite impossible to recreate that lush string sound that the real performance had, the (violin) string sections sound so fragile and thin in comparison. So while it is on sale, I purchased EWQL HS Silver, which I found to be very helpful as I layered it with my EWQL SO strings. 

So far, I created this: 
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F129665696&secret_url=false[/flash]

My question however, is how can I improve upon this? Which I truly ask in the broadest sense of the question. And it still sounds thin to my ears in comparison, is it simply the limitation of SO?

I've used the pitchbend technique subtly for the "larger" intervals in the SO violins phrase. Of course I controlled its expression. I keyswitched the SO strings with SUS-LEG and Butterleg, which I also did with Violas and cellos from SO. On HS Silver, I used the Leg patches for Violins, violas, and cellos whilst controlling them with the modwheel of course. Also I have applied Spaces, without which it would sound quite differently .
One tip I read in The Guide to Midi orchestration by Paul Gilreath was layering other string libraries alongside it. Does this also mean that a 18 Violin section does not quite sound like an 18 violin section, and so to get the right sound one has to add more ontop of that?

Quite happily I find myself finally more desillusioned with virtual instruments, and am looking to improve my technique heaps.


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## José Herring (Jan 15, 2014)

I would just use HS. You also have two harmony parts missing that make yours sound thinner. And also realize that the strings are playing really soft in the original, your strings are too loud. 

If you do those things then it should be pretty easy to get that sound. 

Also, there's some really good reverb in the original.


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## marclawsonmusic (Jan 15, 2014)

+1 for orchestration.

By the way, what percussion lib did you use for this?


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## chevaliermusic (Jan 15, 2014)

Good job so far. I noted that in the original piece there are french horns subtly layered underneath the strings from the very beginning of the melodic lines. Probably adds to the richness.


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## markwind (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks Josejherring, I removed the SO strings, and work on those other harmonies. The control on the HS library is also so much better. SO feels like ancient tech haha . 

Marc, I layered the percussion using patches from heavyocity's Damage, and the EWQL SO Bass drum concert patches, and tweaked it alot. For those (sub)bass heavy hits has the peak is at 62 HZ, which is where I want it to be but the sense of the percussionist striking it is quite weak compared to Desplatts work, so I then boosted the thump and as to avoid boosting the entire patch I seperated the initial thump from the trail. The followup percussion required some work too, and it's still not where I want it to be, not entirely "ensembly" enough, but acceptable for now.

Edit; I also used the Wagner drum patches.


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## marclawsonmusic (Jan 15, 2014)

Ahh, gotcha. I think the percussion turned out very nice!


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## Greg (Jan 16, 2014)

Buy Albion


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## TSU (Jan 16, 2014)

+1


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## renegade (Jan 17, 2014)

...and you need to move the strings forward in time, so that the strings follow the tempo.

Wan't to share a midi file? I have (among others) EWQLSO, HS gold, albion I + II and could give it a shot...
For my taste I often EQ HS a little to get a softer sound.

When you try to do something with samples - liveperformance or maybe just something made with different samples - it's very hard, because your samples is recorded, mixed and layed out different. If your samples doesn't contain the performances/recordings you need it can be a very frustrating experience IMO (although maybe a great exercise). 

-RG


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## Christof (Jan 17, 2014)

yes, the strings are behind the beat, just shift them to the left.This always is an issue with legato string lines, you can't keep them quantized in the beat, always playing far too late.
Maybe it also helps to increase the release time for a more lush sound.


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## markwind (Jan 17, 2014)

I think shifting to HS has made a big difference, the strings are of an entirely different quality in that one to SO. I'll post an update once I have time to complete that first part. 

Here's the midifile


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## markwind (Jan 17, 2014)

Greg @ Fri Jan 17 said:


> Buy Albion



Honestly, I am heavily pondering that decision. I have to really start making up a priority list soon.


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## renegade (Jan 17, 2014)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12948366/Courtyard%20Apocalypse%20HS%20HB%20SO.wav

Something like that?


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## renegade (Jan 17, 2014)

Or maybe this

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12948366/Courtyard%20Apocalypse%20Cornu%2BAlb%2BSM.wav


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## AC986 (Jan 17, 2014)

First one is best to me. I was going to have a go at it for Mark but haven't had the time today.


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## markwind (Jan 17, 2014)

Oh nicely done, I agree with Adrian, the first one is the best .

I just set up my Arc2 by IK, I was kind of blind in the lower frequencies, much flatter response now (small studio, exchausted acoustic treatment options). I'm still playing around with it, but I'm also finishing university this month. Hopefully I can squeeze more time in, otherwise it's the first thing im finishing februari :D


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## renegade (Jan 18, 2014)

markwind @ Fri 17 Jan said:


> Oh nicely done, I agree with Adrian, the first one is the best .
> 
> I just set up my Arc2 by IK, I was kind of blind in the lower frequencies, much flatter response now (small studio, exchausted acoustic treatment options). I'm still playing around with it, but I'm also finishing university this month. Hopefully I can squeeze more time in, otherwise it's the first thing im finishing februari :D



The first is made with HS and SO. IMO, HS sometimes needs to be "opened" a little with EQ. Reverb is IRCAM/Flux Verb Session, ER turned up a notch.

Here's one with Albion + Sable:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12948366/Courtyard%20Apocalypse%20SF.wav

(Albion I find a little tricky, because there is a sudden jump in volume somewhere, modwheel 64 or so. Sable was necessary to make it work)

And a second version of HS SO combi:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12948366/Courtyard%20Apocalypse%20HS%20HB%20SO%202.wav


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## markwind (Jan 18, 2014)

My god, Albion+Sable was very well done. So I had some time to work on it yesterday a little and i managed to get a decent thing going so far with SO and HS silver, it's an incredibly softly played piece.

How do you all find mock-ups realistic in so far of the number of violinists (for instance) a certain library patch has recorded vs to how many it would take to re-enact what you did in your mockup? Don't you need more layering in mockups then you would in real life? Also, besides visiting concerts, do you have any way of getting a feel of the amount of players of a particular instrument necessary for a certain sound? Surely VI's are not really good for that? Say for instance I do a mockup, and it sounded quite well done to your standards, how would I get a feel for the required amount of players for a real performance?


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## José Herring (Jan 18, 2014)

renegade @ Sat Jan 18 said:


> markwind @ Fri 17 Jan said:
> 
> 
> > Oh nicely done, I agree with Adrian, the first one is the best .
> ...



If you turned up the volume on the vlns slightly on the HS SO combo you'd have it almost perfectly. There's a little trickery going on in the mix to make the lead line sound like that yet stand out.

The Sable version imo sounds good but sounds muffled to me.


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## renegade (Jan 19, 2014)

josejherring @ Sun 19 Jan said:


> If you turned up the volume on the vlns slightly on the HS SO combo you'd have it almost perfectly. There's a little trickery going on in the mix to make the lead line sound like that yet stand out.



Thanks, and you're right.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12948366/Courtyard%20Apocalypse%20HS%20HB%20SO%203.wav

The Sable version was done with the mix-mics, I guess you could make a more suitable mix if you toyed around with the mics yourself. No legato patches was used, I couldn't make them sound right in this case.

Btw. all is mixed on my headphones (My amplifier broke down last week...). So especially the low/bass frequencies may be slightly off.

@markwind: I didn't use your midi file, btw. (And all the examples have different midi performances)


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