# Hacintosh Smackintosh...Dude, I'm getting a Dellintosh 64G RAM



## synergy543 (Jan 13, 2017)

I'm jumping ship (sorry Tim, you're not making what I want) and getting a Dell 8910 4GHz i7 6700 with 64G RAM and hacking it into a Dellintosh. I will be using the USB 3.1 ports for external SSDs and other drives. I'll be replacing the power supply to a 650 W and installing a GTX 960 4G graphics card. The whole thing comes to around $1,350, a fraction of the cost of a new Mac.

Dell 8910 i7 6700........$750
64G RAM....................$370
GTX 960, 4G...............$170
650W PS....................$70
____________________________
Total..........................$1,350

Has anyone else done this? I know several people have temporarily tried Hacintoshes but is anyone using one full time? Any concerns?

I'm currently using a Dell 8700 3.6GHz i7 4790 with 32G RAM that's been converted into a Mac running Sierra OS and I've been testing this for several days. I've installed, DP 9.12, Kontakt, VSL Ensemble Pro 6 and I've been networking with my Mac Pro 8-core without any problems. I've installed iLok and VSL eLicenser without troubles. The problem is, this machine is going to my wife (she wants a new Mac after 8 years). So that's why I'm getting the Dell 8910 configuration above. 

I've never heard of anyone using either of these Hacintosh machines in the music world. Any reason why not? The 8700 been working like a dream for the past week and I've been using this same machine as a PC slave for several months with VE Pro 6 and its all been very smooth without any hitches.

The 8700 alone is far more powerful and faster than my 2008 2.8GHz MacPro 8-core. The CPU barely budges even when I load it with many VIs and tracks. So I figure the 6700 will be that much better. In the worst case, I'll turn it back into a PC and just use it as a slave but my week with the 8700 Dellintosh has been most encouraging. No problems whatsoever.

So what am I not seeing? Why don't I hear of people using these? 
Any thoughts?


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## synthnut1 (Jan 13, 2017)

I've concidered building one but plunked out in the end. Not all that good at understanding the configuration.

Have heard of too many nightmares.


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## chimuelo (Jan 13, 2017)

I've been wanting to do this based on the only 2 guys I know that have done this and have zero problems in a live venue.
But it took weeks of touch and go prep.
I'm going to give it a shot in a couple of weeks on a spare and if it works build an 8 Core AMD because Main Stage has lots of tweaks for Core assignment and mapping.
My desire to have an ESX Sampler is the biggest factor.

If you do this please create a thread.
I need a push as in 7 weeks the AMD will be released by OEMs so I will buy one then finish this job below...


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## synthnut1 (Jan 13, 2017)

+1


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## synergy543 (Jan 13, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> I've been wanting to do this based on the only 2 guys I know that have done this and have zero problems in a live venue.
> But it took weeks of touch and go prep.


I didn't build the 8700 Hackintosh that I'm using now, my son did. And he did it in one night when he was bored. He built two of them, one for himself and one for me to test. Both have been running without any problems (He's run very demanding CAD software and 3d graphics). He said it wasn't terribly difficult, however he also knows computers quite well. I think part of the success is that he built it upon a common standard computer (Dell 8700) which has been tested and tried by others. There are little variations in components. Building a system from scratch might present more variables. The 8910 is a slightly different model and a bit newer. The reason I picked it is that it supports USB 3.1 so the external throughput should be a bit faster. Although on the 8700, we're getting 425 MB/s on the SSDs with USB 3.0 which seems quite adequate. I'm not sure 3.1 will be faster unless I use faster SDDs but thats good enough for what I need now.


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## garyhiebner (Jan 13, 2017)

If you use parts that are recommended on the Tony x86 site, you shouldn't have any problems. And make sure to always do a clone of your drive before doing any big installs. If somethings breaks, you can always just swap out the drive with the clone drive and get back to your OS before the installation of the problematic software. So it might just be a bit more un-keep than a usual Mac. But definitely do-able.


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## chimuelo (Jan 13, 2017)

That's awesome..
Do you know what GFX Cards he uses for the CAD Orbital software?
And can you run powerful GFX Cards without over saturating the PCI-e bus from high end audio interfaces?
I can't even get an hours time from the 2 guys I know, and leads me to believe others built theirs too.


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## chimuelo (Jan 13, 2017)

garyhiebner said:


> If you use parts that are recommended on the Tony x86 site, you shouldn't have any problems. And make sure to always do a clone of your drive before doing any big installs. If somethings breaks, you can always just swap out the drive with the clone drive and get back to your OS before the installation of the problematic software. So it might just be a bit more un-keep than a usual Mac. But definitely do-able.



I'm heading there now.
Thanks


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## garyhiebner (Jan 13, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> I'm heading there now.
> Thanks


Check the latest CustoMac Build Guide and see what parts are recommended:

https://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/january/2017


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## Tyll (Jan 13, 2017)

I think it works well, but if you mess with things that are rooted too deep you can completely wipe the system. I have had a Hackintosh for a few weeks, because I have a MacBook and a PC and wanted to use both with the same system. The installation was a big of an emotional rollercoaster as you are never certain about what's actually happening unless you are a real geek. However, I have decent knowledge of computers and was able to make it through pretty quickly in a few hours with just a few problems of installing drivers etc.
It worked GREAT until I tried installing a particular USB over network driver. Than it crashed. Completely. Like clover would not even load, but give me an error, essentially giving me a system that does not go further as to the BIOS. Had I made a clone of the boot SSD, I probably would have abandoned the stupid USB network thing, just copied the SSD and still would use the hackintosh.
Now since I was too frustrated, because I had just reinstalled EVERYTHING, I decided I could just go for the "saver" option and install Windows on my MacBookPro. Turns out that's even harder than installing Mac on a PC, but since I had decided to backup all data and wipe, I had to make it work, which I did after 30(!)hours of intalling and reinstalling windows.

Bottom line: Don't mess with the drivers (and system updates!) too much once you got it working. And you will 100000% want a backup of your boot SSD. Other than that. It worked great and flawlessly.


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## synergy543 (Jan 13, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> Do you know what GFX Cards he uses for the CAD Orbital software?


He uses Altium software which is does very impressive real-time rotations of multi-layer circuits. And I'll test it with MODO and Vue. The GTX960 4G should handle quite a lot. There are faster cards such as the 1080 with 8G RAM but apparently they don't have drivers for the Hacintosh yet.


chimuelo said:


> And can you run powerful GFX Cards without over saturating the PCI-e bus from high end audio interfaces?


Good question. I won't be using a high end audio interface but just mixing within the box. The is only one fast PCI-e lane in the Dell 8910 so that's its Achilles heel I suppose. If I really feel the need for a high-end audio interface, then I'll likely get an iMac for the front-end and use the Dell as a slave with VE Pro.


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## synergy543 (Jan 13, 2017)

@Tyll - Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll keep a backup of the system drive as you suggest. I was worried that drivers such as Pace (iLok) and eLicencer (VSL) might be an issue but I tested both with the Dell 8700 Hackintosh and they worked fine. I also tested it with Synergy which lets me use one mouse between two computers and that also worked great. Everything I've thrown at it has worked. I was surprised as I thought some of the CP software might take it down but it didn't. VSL VE Pro networking is via ethernet and that worked like a charm as well. What is this USB networking you tried? I plan to use the USB ports for multiple drives so I hope that isn't an issue.

In any case, I have PLAN B ready in which case I'll simply turn it into a monster-sized PC slave machine. However, if all goes as tested up until now, I'll just use this as my new Mac.


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## Tyll (Jan 13, 2017)

The driver was for an USB device server. I got rather experimental with it though and tried all kinds of stuff to make it work, because I wanted it so badly. I'm sure that in most cases when using some more caution it would just not run and not break everything. Still, definitely go with the backup. Doesn't have to be an SSD so it can be cheap and definitely worth it even if you hope to never use it. System backups can be critical as well. So always back up before those on a hackintosh.

When working those device servers are great by the way. No more carrying licence dongles around the house. Just start up from any computer, auto-log in to the server an voila: Steinberg/VSL eLicencer, Waves, all good. Especially great if you have multiple systems or want to sketch something out with VSL on your laptop in bed without breaking the USB port. Anyways, that's a different story. Good luck with your new computer


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## passsacaglia (Jan 14, 2017)

By curiosity I always visit the tonymac forum success builds or google some builds with some cpu's just for interest, found 2 good ones if you or someone else wants to build one (Plan B), here with the i7 5820K cpu, one with El Cap and the other one with Sierra also he's got a 970 card which works fine:

https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/...itan-10-11-2-clover-guide-100-working.183441/

https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/...sierra-10-12-clover-guide-100-working.203769/

but cool with @synergy543 's sons build! 

Anyhow hope the Dellintosh will be good. 
Ciaoz!


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## synergy543 (Jan 14, 2017)

@ Tyll - The USB Server device sounds very interesting. Does it work with both iLok and VSL keys? I've always wished I could move my VSL libraries around but everything is on one dongle and I don't wish to keep track of everything split across different dongles as I already have too many.

@ passacaglia - Thanks for the info and well wishes.

*[EDIT]* We've made a slight change and are going with the Dell 8900 instead of the 8910 as the form factor of the case and design of the 8900 is similar to the 8700 which we've already had success with. The 8910 is a much smaller and tighter design so it could present difficulties. The CPU, RAM and GPU are all the same, the only thing missing in the 8900 is USB 3.1 so I'll be limited to USB 3.0 speeds which should be fine. Might try a USB 3.1 PCI-e card.


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## Tyll (Jan 14, 2017)

It works fine now, but it's bit hit or miss. I have a steinberg key with primarily VSL licences on it that works with device server by Silex (SX-1000U), which I got from eBay for about 20€. However, my Waves USB dongle does not work with this, so I use my router (AVM Fritzbox 7490) for that. Strangely, both dongles only work with the chosen device host. Changing them or putting both dongles on one of the device serves doesn't work. So, yeah. Can work if you are lucky. This is windows only by the way. While AVM has no drivers for Mac, Silex should by now (they had problems with the newer MacOS systems I think). However, things might be completely different, as of now I got a running system, but have no idea why like this.


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## synergy543 (Jan 14, 2017)

I guessed you were talking about the Silex device. That sounds so tempting but I'm shy to try as I recently fried an SSD while plugging into the USB port on the PC. The theory is that the controller chip was responsible and I now have latest greatest USB controller cards and use a hub as a secondary protective buffer. I'd be worried about damaging my dongles possibly which is why I don't even like to move them around. I guess once burned, twice shy. However, this Hacintosh step is surely an adventure into uncharted territory (no TonyMac examples with the 8900 yet), though I have the feeling it will go well. The 8900 is so close to 8700 it surely will work. I'll let you all know!


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## gsilbers (Jan 14, 2017)

i tried getting into hackintosh but its such a PITA because you cannot just install the new app / daw upgrade etc. its this whole process of checking whats compaitble etc. screw that. better get a 2012 grill mac pro and call it a day. 

its way too much tinkering to get mac os. also, windows has made quite the comback and even though i used to hate windows and been using apple since 1999, i woundt mind switching. way less BS than apple who now dodnt think anyone uses anyting else besides icrap. every upgrade apple forces upon us we loose something. im about to loose pro tools HD because of el capital/sierra. so imagine THAT and dealing with hackingtosh fragile components systems... forget about it! 
("tell us what you really think" right?) sorry for the rant.


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## synergy543 (Jan 14, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> i tried getting into hackintosh but its such a PITA because you cannot just install the new app / daw upgrade etc. its this whole process of checking whats compaitble etc. screw that. better get a 2012 grill mac pro and call it a day.


That's what I thought too until I tried it. Once its all setup and tuned, the Dell 8700 Hacintosh we've been using for several weeks now functions identically as any iMac would and I've listed the fairly challenging programs we've thrown at it. I was pleasantly surprised. So that's why I decided to go for a build with the 8900 and 64G RAM. Everything has been ordered already so I'll report back after its up and working. However, in the meantime, the Dell 8700 Hacintosh continues to run very smoothly.

btw, I had no issues installing new apps to to the Dell 8700 Hacintosh. The installation process for DP, VSL VE Pro, NI Komplete, etc. was the same procedure as on a regular Mac. No troubles encountered. And VE Pro networking works fine.

Caveat: Again, I did not do the conversion but my son did it in a single night. He knows computers deeply and he checked everything to make sure it would all run smoothly for me as he knows what a skeptic I was. 
Now I'm converted.


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## synergy543 (Feb 17, 2017)

*UPDATE* - I have my new Dell 8900 Hacintosh up and running now and it was a simple conversion (for my son). It took him just a few hours to change the PS, graphics card, RAM and drives and install the software. The only reason we changed hardware was to beef up the specs. I'm now successfully running Mac OS Sierra with 64G RAM and a NVidia 960 4G Graphics card running dual monitors, MOTU PCI-424 audio card and a slew of outboard USB 3.1 SSDs and regular drives. Absolutely everything I've tried has worked fine without any problems. Software I'm running is MOTU DP 9.1, VSL VE 6 Pro, NI Komplete, Sibelius 8, Adobe CS 6 Master Collection, Foundry MODO 9, eLicenser, iLok, and many others.

The computer cost $699, and each of the upgrades was $100~$200 so just slightly over $1200 for everything. 

*N.B.* I could not have built this by myself. My son read notes on TonyMac, did the clover install and tuning, and for him, it was a cinch. However, if I had tried it myself, I would have gotten bogged down in the setting details and probably have given up and just purchased an iMac or a trash can. When things go wrong, I freak out, my son just figures the problem out and moves along. Musician brain vs engineering brain I like to think.

If you're up to the challenge, it works like a dream.


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## mjsalam (Feb 17, 2017)

synergy543 said:


> *UPDATE* - I have my new Dell 8900 Hacintosh up and running now and it was a simple conversion (for my son). It took him just a few hours to change the PS, graphics card, RAM and drives and install the software. The only reason we changed hardware was to beef up the specs. I'm now successfully running Mac OS Sierra with 64G RAM and a NVidia 960 4G Graphics card running dual monitors, MOTU PCI-424 audio card and a slew of outboard USB 3.1 SSDs and regular drives. Absolutely everything I've tried has worked fine without any problems. Software I'm running is MOTU DP 9.1, VSL VE 6 Pro, NI Komplete, Sibelius 8, Adobe CS 6 Master Collection, Foundry MODO 9, eLicenser, iLok, and many others.
> 
> The computer cost $699, and each of the upgrades was $100~$200 so just slightly over $1200 for everything.
> 
> ...



I 100% agree with @gsilbers on this one.

I have built a few hackintoshes in my time. I personally would never use them for anything mission critical. For the most part with the right components they will run well BUT sooner or later there will be a security update, or an OS update or some kind of system update and you will have 2 options - either do nothing or risk the update. If you do nothing then over time your security risks compound and compatibility will inevitably become an issue (unless you run your machine in a complete vacuum) If you do upgrade there is a probability it won't boot after (depending on the upgrade of course). At which point you will be booting from install, dropping into terminal, replacing kexts, sudo bless this and that...replace the kernel blah blah...all after doing a bunch of research and then hopefully it comes up. As an example, I have a (real) Mac Pro 1,1 which is running El Cap using the SFOTT 64bit efi hack. Every time there is a relatively significant update boot will fail. Then I have to use firewire to connect it to my other Mac...bring it up in target mode...replace a couple files, and then it boots. Once you have it down it doesn't take that long but its still a PITA and who knows when the process will need to change. If someone was looking for a Mac on the cheap I would always recommend getting a used grill Mac Pro. Good luck with it nonetheless.


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## synthnut1 (Feb 17, 2017)

It's threads like this that keep me from building a HcIntosh .....I'm not that computer literate as it is , and to deal with all this would not make me a happy camper .... If it ever became more secure , I would surely consider it , but over the years , it doesn't seem to have gotten any more secure ....Good luck you guy's who are building these ....They have surely peaked my interest over the years ....


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## MarcelM (Feb 17, 2017)

well i have build a hackintosh and can only recommend it if you are familiar with computer stuff. it was alot of fiddling around until i got it too work as i wanted but it was well worth the time. i love this thing and it runs rock stable.


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## synergy543 (Feb 17, 2017)

Thanks for the warnings but I have no worries. I have tech guru here that can handle any issue that might comes up. I also have a MacPro 8-core still running (now as a slave), but this new souped up Dell runs circles around my old machine in terms of performance. If I didn't have someone that I was certain could handle any tech issue that might arise, then I wouldn't risk this on my own, so I'm fortunate in that sense.

One other reason I have confidence is that we have three Hacintosh machines here which are almost identical which really helps with trouble-shooting.


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## synthnut1 (Feb 18, 2017)

"I have tech guru here that can handle any issue that might comes up"

This is the "Key" right here .....If I had the same , I would surely be attempting a HcIntosh .....Jim


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## mat1 (Mar 5, 2017)

mjsalam said:


> I 100% agree with @gsilbers.
> If you do upgrade there is a probability it won't boot after (depending on the upgrade of course). At which point you will be booting from install, dropping into terminal, replacing kexts, sudo bless this and that...replace the kernel blah blah...all after doing a bunch of research and then hopefully it comes up. As an example, I have a (real) Mac Pro 1,1 which is running El Cap using the SFOTT 64bit efi hack. Every time there is a relatively significant update boot will fail. Then I have to use firewire to connect it to my other Mac..



Why so many updates? I'm 2 years in with my Hack and never felt the need to update.


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## mjsalam (Mar 5, 2017)

mat1 said:


> Why so many updates? I'm 2 years in with my Hack and never felt the need to update.



Depends on your use case. If you do very little with the machine and have little concern over security then sure never update. You can also keep it disconnected from the internet. But from a cybersecurity perspective, keeping a machine patched and updated is probably the most fundamental thing you should be doing.


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## Selfinflicted (Mar 5, 2017)

I keep my current 5 hacks pretty well up to date and haven't had any problems. i certainly don't shy away from updating any more that I do in my actual Macs proper.

Hacking has gotten a lot easier - plenty of good resources like Tonymac where sticking to the yellow brick road of known builds yields great/easy results. It's when one strays from proven builds that you can end up exerting more effort.


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## mjsalam (Mar 6, 2017)

Selfinflicted said:


> I keep my current 5 hacks pretty well up to date and haven't had any problems. i certainly don't shy away from updating any more that I do in my actual Macs proper.
> 
> Hacking has gotten a lot easier - plenty of good resources like Tonymac where sticking to the yellow brick road of known builds yields great/easy results. It's when one strays from proven builds that you can end up exerting more effort.



Good to know. Thanks!


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