# How do you protect your ears?



## MoeWalsaad (Jun 10, 2017)

P.S: I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right section! a moderator action/advice may be needed.


Hello Everybody!

*I wonder, what do you do to protect your ears during music production? and how do you prevent headaches and dizziness and ear fatigue?*

Because I work on music for long hours every day, usually, all is fine until I start polishing my Drums, Kicks and bass instruments, or when I worry about my mix punch and quality, I get headaches and I become dizzy.. and if the composition has lots of repetitive drums. it becomes a nightmare and I even get tired very early during my working day!

Usually, I compose on a low volume, but when it comes to mixing.. I need to hear what I'm doing! and mixing can take long hours and even days!

I know this is not a medical forum, but due to the nature of our work, I think the subject is related as I believe many musicians and engineers has developed hearing issues!

I would like to hear your thoughts and advice!
Thanks!


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## Smikes77 (Jun 10, 2017)

Do you mix at about the same level people listen to music?


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## MoeWalsaad (Jun 10, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> Do you mix at about the same level people listen to music?


Yes.. usually!


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## Mr Greg G (Jun 10, 2017)

You may try to take more breaks during your day to rest your ears. Go out and take a 10-15 min walk, it will get you out of your studio so you can see there's a sun outside!!


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## Smikes77 (Jun 10, 2017)

MoeWalsaad said:


> Yes.. usually!



So, do you suffer fatigue just listening to music generally then?


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## MoeWalsaad (Jun 10, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> So, do you suffer fatigue just listening to music generally then?


Yes I do, and last few years I rarely listen to music for the sake of entertainment myself mostly because I cannot stand it for too long, I cannot stand earphones for more than 15-20 minutes, nor loud concerts/occasions!
So I do have a medical problem.

My doctor advised me to not expose my ear to noise that is louder than 60dbs..which is too low for a musician to watch his mix, although usually when I mix my ears are exposed to between 60db to 85db.. which is I think is a normal exposure for any musician.. but I still get tired anyway.


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## MoeWalsaad (Jun 10, 2017)

Mr Pringles said:


> You may try to take more breaks during your day to rest your ears. Go out and take a 10-15 min walk, it will get you out of your studio so you can see there's a sun outside!!


Yes I do that almost daily! but usually, when dizziness hit, it takes a whole day to recover, the problem is I don't always have a day to recover.


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## MoeWalsaad (Jun 10, 2017)

Update: I edited the post because I don't want to turn the focus into my medical condition.

*It's general, what do you do to prevent ear fatigue during Mixing?*

Sorry for that.


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## Smikes77 (Jun 10, 2017)

I really don`t know what to advise, sorry. 65dB is super low. If you use ear protectors then that might obfuscate the mix. That`s a sucky situation.

Can you give the files to someone else to mix? The expense is surely worth your hearing.


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## MoeWalsaad (Jun 10, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> I really don`t know what to advise, sorry. 65dB is super low. If you use ear protectors then that might obfuscate the mix. That`s a sucky situation.
> 
> Can you give the files to someone else to mix? The expense is surely worth your hearing.



I think will soon,
But If 65DB is too low, what is the preferred Mixing DB level to maintain good judgment without damaging ears?
I think any ear can get tired.


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## WindcryMusic (Jun 10, 2017)

I have bilateral Ménière's disease, which causes tinnitus, dizziness and hearing loss, so I can sympathize. Because of this I cannot handle loud music volumes anymore (no more concerts for me, neither as a performer nor as a listener), but as long as I record and mix at a comfortable level most of the time, I haven't had much of a problem with worsening tinnitus or dizziness as a result of studio time. I do have to be careful to limit my use of headphones, and to closely moderate the volume thereof, as it is easy to get carried away.

Ear fatigue is always a problem I think, and not just for those afflicted with physical maladies. I always take a break from the studio after a few hours to give my ears (and at least as importantly, my brain) a chance to rest and reset, and I think it's a good idea for anyone regardless of their ear issues (or lack thereof) to do the same.


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## MoeWalsaad (Jun 10, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> I have bilateral Ménière's disease, which causes tinnitus, dizziness and hearing loss, so I can sympathize. Because of this I cannot handle loud music volumes anymore (no more concerts for me, neither as a performer nor as a listener), but as long as I record and mix at a comfortable level most of the time, I haven't had much of a problem with worsening tinnitus or dizziness as a result of studio time. I do have to be careful to limit my use of headphones, and to closely moderate the volume thereof, as it is easy to get carried away.
> 
> Ear fatigue is always a problem I think, and not just for those afflicted with physical maladies. I always take a break from the studio after a few hours to give my ears (and at least as importantly, my brain) a chance to rest and reset, and I think it's a good idea for anyone regardless of their ear issues (or lack thereof) to do the same.



Thanks for sharing your experience, I'm sorry about your disease, my condition as far as my doctor told me a permanent Middle Ear infection. my symptoms are the same, I take lots of rests and try to work on low levels as much as possible.


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## jmauz (Jun 10, 2017)

Existing medical conditions notwithstanding, if your studio is quiet enough and you have decent monitors then you should be able to mix continuously at a level that won't cause damage. I was always taught to monitor at 85db (measured from the mix position, a-weighted), turning it up a bit from time to time to check at higher levels but only briefly. Throughout my career I've stuck to that and it's always yielded excellent results.

According to OSHA standards a worker can be exposed to continuous noise up to 90db for 8 hours without risk of damage.


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## WindcryMusic (Jun 10, 2017)

MoeWalsaad said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience, I'm sorry about your disease, my condition as far as my doctor told me a permanent Middle Ear infection. my symptoms are the same, I take lots of rests and try to work on low levels as much as possible.



I've never heard of a permanent middle ear infection ... I'm no doctor, but you might want to at least check into other possible causes like Meniere's or auto-immune inner ear disease. You might be able to tolerate music for a longer period of time through nothing more than dietary changes, like lowered sodium intake or eliminating allergens in your food selections. I do both of those, and as a result I am way more content with my hearing than I was when this stuff started for me. The problems are still there, but they are controlled most of the time.

No need to be or feel sorry! Many people have worse problems. I'm still able to make and enjoy music, and that is what matters. Hopefully you will figure something out that helps you as well.


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## Mundano (Jun 10, 2017)

The human being is a "costume animal", so do we say it in our land. Exercise your mix at low levels the most of the time, so that you can get acostumed to do this way. In no time your perception will refine, your ears will be protected. Do high levels ONLY to check, that means for example 5minutes, passing a song from the beginning to the end. And check only at necessary moments, not all the time. Do so and trust your ears at low levels + pauses and walks like other members here have recommended you.

Nice mixing wish i you!


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## MoeWalsaad (Jun 11, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> I've never heard of a permanent middle ear infection ... I'm no doctor, but you might want to at least check into other possible causes like Meniere's or auto-immune inner ear disease. You might be able to tolerate music for a longer period of time through nothing more than dietary changes, like lowered sodium intake or eliminating allergens in your food selections. I do both of those, and as a result I am way more content with my hearing than I was when this stuff started for me. The problems are still there, but they are controlled most of the time.
> 
> No need to be or feel sorry! Many people have worse problems. I'm still able to make and enjoy music, and that is what matters. Hopefully you will figure something out that helps you as well.



I need to check exact medical term, but it's just my ear infection comes and goes during certain conditions including that it's easily triggered by loud noise and earphones.
However, 90% of my days I finish the mixing fine on time, but I notice that I get tired anyway and sometimes I get dizzy, so I wonder if that's damaging on the long run.


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## MoeWalsaad (Jun 11, 2017)

Mundano said:


> The human being is a "costume animal", so do we say it in our land. Exercise your mix at low levels the most of the time, so that you can get acostumed to do this way. In no time your perception will refine, your ears will be protected. Do high levels ONLY to check, that means for example 5minutes, passing a song from the beginning to the end. And check only at necessary moments, not all the time. Do so and trust your ears at low levels + pauses and walks like other members here have recommended you.
> 
> Nice mixing wish i you!


I see, thanks for the tip, I should improve my skills at mixing on low levels by default, and to raise levels briefly only when needed!


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## Divico (Jun 11, 2017)

Hi I'm studying medicine and do have the same problem.
Most engineers calibrate their systems to 85 dB SPL so I asked my teacher weather this can damage my ears. 
The answer was that any noise other 80 dB can potentially damage our ears. 
BUT.
Hearing damage doesn't only correleate with SPL but also with time of exposure and with the properties of the material your listening to! So therefore to protect our ears we have to shorten the time of exposure and/or turn down our volume. The louder you turn it up, the shorter your time of exposure should be. 

When it comes to ear fatigue whilst mixing I have read the recomendation that you should take a break every 45 min to reset your hearing. Psychologists say that you can't be focused for a longer period anyway 
Listening to some other stuff can also help reducing your bias towards your mix. 
I also like checking my mix from different positions in my room which not only changes the frequency response i get but is also a bit relaxing for my ears.


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## WindcryMusic (Jun 11, 2017)

Divico said:


> I have read the recomendation that you should take a break every 45 min to reset your hearing. Psychologists say that you can't be focused for a longer period anyway
> Listening to some other stuff can also help reducing your bias towards your mix.



Good advice. Even with my own ear problems, I'm 100% sure that bias toward my own mix is the bigger problem for me when mixing, by far.


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## kavinsky (Jun 11, 2017)

I never show up at the venue without earplugs anymore. Feel absolutely comfortable during and after the show.
Too bad I developed this habit after my teens haha, some hearing loss definitely took place during those loud concerts I attended to as a kid.

I had a bad case of sinusitis a few years back and it left me with a strange swelling sensation in my right ear which reoccurs sometimes, doctors say its all good though, the ear works fine.

Also I try to avoid earpods these days and generally work on a lowest level possible most of the time.

And I try not to do those Sine wave hearing test haha, my perfectionism suffers greatly when I realize I can't hear some things others can(above 15 or 16k if I remember correctly).

PS just realized that sine waves definitely affect my well being, I'm working in a new place and I hate to hear uneven response I get in this new room, aggrh!


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## MoeWalsaad (Jun 11, 2017)

Divico said:


> Hi I'm studying medicine and do have the same problem.
> Most engineers calibrate their systems to 85 dB SPL so I asked my teacher weather this can damage my ears.
> The answer was that any noise other 80 dB can potentially damage our ears.
> BUT.
> ...


That's great, thanks for the tips!


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jun 16, 2017)

Mixing shouldn't be done with high volumes imho. You definitely should *check* your mix loud, before taking breaks for exemple, but 95% of time you should be able to have a conversation while the music is playing.

Mixing extensively at high volume is :
1. Not recommended for your hearing
2. Not recommended for your mix  Perceived dynamics, Fletcher-Munson curve... It is easy to be fooled by something loud, believing it's good. But if your mix sounds good at low volume, chances are it will sound _great_ when you turn the knob.

Hope this helps !


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## Divico (Jun 17, 2017)

Totally true. As a rule of thump you should mix at a volume at which you can talk to somebody without screaming.


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## synthpunk (Jun 17, 2017)

Mix at a steady 88db, get a free DB measurement app for your phone or iPad.

Throw your earbuds, in-ear monitors, headphones in the garbage can. I'm kidding and I'm not take this advice very seriously from someone who's married to a ear health professional. If you must use headphones use common sense and logic and do not listen overly loud.

Use monitors that do not cause ear fatigue ie Dynaudio.

Wear hearing protection at loud events such as concerts, car races, etc. The ones at the dollar store work okay. Or you can have ones made that are molded for your ears. My union requires that I wear them for my own protection when working.

Have your ears tested, examined, and cleaned, by a ENT doctor once a year. Never insert anything such as Q-tips into your ear canals


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## Dan Erben (Jun 17, 2017)

This is solid advice. I find headphones much more fatiguing on the ears than monitors. Perhaps it's the close proximity of the speaker to the ear. 

I live in NYC, it's loud. I never leave home without earplugs. I also ditched earbuds permanently. If you're in any environment where you have to raise your voice to have a normal conversation, it's likely too loud and you should protect your hearing.


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## charlieclouser (Jun 19, 2017)

I agree with lots of the above. I've been using Dynaudio for the last 15 years and I can put in some seriously long hours with no ear fatigue. When I put on headphones I can last about 10-15 minutes before I rip them from my head and curse the day they were invented. I still use them once per mix just to get another perspective, but I can only last for one or two playthroughs of a cue before I have to go back to the Dynaudios.

Back in my days of alternating between NS-10's and giant Tannoy mains, I couldn't last all day and all night like I can with the Dynaudios.


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