# Cyperpunk comes out in a few days and I am fully preparing to become a useless piece of s***



## Llama Butter (Dec 6, 2020)

My friends got me a preorder as a bday gift, I have accepted that I will be glued to the tv for a distinctly unhealthy amount of time.

Is anybody else in the same boat with this game or have anything else they're really looking forward to?


----------



## el-bo (Dec 6, 2020)

Llama Butter said:


> My friends got me a preorder as a bday gift, I have accepted that I will be glued to the tv for a distinctly unhealthy amount of time.
> 
> Is anybody else in the same boat with this game or have anything else they're really looking forward to?



Not one specific game, but Microsoft have just put up an offer for 3 months of Game Pass Ultimate, for $1 (Now includes all of EA access titles). I'm going to use the 3 months to demo all the titles I've had any interest in, so that I don't have to second-guess everything when titles go on sale. 

If I give each one an hour to win me over (Also checking for 360 titles that haven't been well optimised for the XBone controller). Should be able to get through most of the titles i want to try 

Have fun with Cyberpunk


----------



## Traz (Dec 6, 2020)

I've literally been waiting 7 years for this game.

I too am fully prepared to become useless.

It will be nice to have some time off from all my time off.


----------



## doctoremmet (Dec 6, 2020)

I have preordered it too. Headsup. If you need or want a new Chromecast, Google is giving away a Chromecast Ultra and a Stadia controller for free with any preorder. I think the end date is 10 december and even people with an existing preorder are eligible I believe. Check their Stadia site


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 6, 2020)

Llama Butter said:


> My friends got me a preorder as a bday gift, I have accepted that I will be glued to the tv for a distinctly unhealthy amount of time.
> 
> Is anybody else in the same boat with this game or have anything else they're really looking forward to?




Probably gonna buy it as well. For Christmas I think, if I buy it sooner I might not get my work done and have the game finished before Christmas 




el-bo said:


> Not one specific game, but Microsoft have just put up an offer for 3 months of Game Pass Ultimate, for $1 (Now includes all of EA access titles). I'm going to use the 3 months to demo all the titles I've had any interest in, so that I don't have to second-guess everything when titles go on sale.
> 
> If I give each one an hour to win me over (Also checking for 360 titles that haven't been well optimised for the XBone controller). Should be able to get through most of the titles i want to try
> 
> Have fun with Cyberpunk



Interesting, thanks for letting us know about that deal. While you're at it, try Void Bastards. 
Do you know if their cloud gaming software would run on Windows 7 and if this is a way to play EA games without installing EA Origin?


----------



## el-bo (Dec 6, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> While you're at it, try Void Bastards.
> Do you know if their cloud gaming software would run on Windows 7 and if this is a way to play EA games without installing EA Origin?



Can't try Void Bastards as I no longer game on my Mac (It's a temperature-avoidance thing). Besides, if the minimum Windows Spec is any indication, I wouldn't have enough VRAM to get it to run.

Strictly XBoneX, these days which unfortunately means i can't answer your other questions. Sorry!


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 6, 2020)

el-bo said:


> Can't try Void Bastards



Shouldn't that work on your xBonex, if not natively then at least via cloud streaming? There's an xBox One version listed on metacritic at least. 



el-bo said:


> Strictly XBoneX, these days which unfortunately means i can't answer your other questions. Sorry!



No problem . Maybe someone else can. Though I doubt it runs on Win7, since they like pushing people towards Win10.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 6, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> There's an xBox One version listed on metacritic at least.



Haha! you're right! It's right there in Game Pass. So will definitely try it out. Cheers


----------



## jononotbono (Dec 7, 2020)

I just flew back to England and now in a 14 day quarantine. Oh the shame. 😂


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 7, 2020)

I'll be there. Finished up a few play throughs of Demons Souls so I'm 'free' now.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 7, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> I'll be there. Finished up a few play throughs of Demons Souls so I'm 'free' now.



Is it worth getting the PS5 instead of the new Xbox for that? How does it compare to DS1,2,3? I never played the original Demons Souls.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 7, 2020)

Managed to get the Rocking Horse poop RTX 3070 purely for Cyberpunk...


----------



## doctoremmet (Dec 7, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Managed to get the Rocking Horse poop RTX 3070 purely for Cyberpunk...


Whoa! You beat the scalpers!?


----------



## InLight-Tone (Dec 7, 2020)

I'm on the computer most of the day as is, I need to get OUTSIDE for balance...


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 7, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Is it worth getting the PS5 instead of the new Xbox for that? How does it compare to DS1,2,3? I never played the original Demons Souls.



It's good yeah, I did play the original on import. So it was a great visual experience.
I'd say it looks like DS3 and has the mechanics of DS1. Obviously more up to date, it's butter smooth and a bit easier now, as you can actually makes things out 

If you've played the others then you'll love it. I think the PvP will be huge once they get consoles in peoples homes! I just got the digital version console, so I'd say it's worth it as I can still play my PS4 games on it.


----------



## Macrawn (Dec 7, 2020)

Dang, never heard of it but it looks like a cool game. Hope it's as good as the vid I saw on it.


----------



## MarcusD (Dec 7, 2020)

Feel


jononotbono said:


> I just flew back to England and now in a 14 day quarantine. Oh the shame. 😂


 
Cyberpunk release purely coincidental during your return, right? 😆


----------



## method1 (Dec 7, 2020)

This game is freaking me out on multiple levels, but especially because I track I worked on is in the soundtrack, I have no idea how its gonna sound in-game and up against some of more famous contributors to the soundtrack 😨


----------



## purple (Dec 7, 2020)

To be honest I'm more excited for the pile of salt it will cause when it doesn't live up to the hype. I don't think I'll buy it but I am ironically just excited for launch day as those who do.


----------



## Traz (Dec 7, 2020)

purple said:


> To be honest I'm more excited for the pile of salt it will cause when it doesn't live up to the hype. I don't think I'll buy it but I am ironically just excited for launch day as those who do.


What makes you think it won't? This is CD Projekt Red were talking about.


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 7, 2020)

purple said:


> To be honest I'm more excited for the pile of salt it will cause when it doesn't live up to the hype. I don't think I'll buy it but I am ironically just excited for launch day as those who do.



2020's final kick in the balls 
Even if it's a turd I'll be all over it for months.


----------



## tc9000 (Dec 7, 2020)

the problem with hype is its like the shower scene in psycho. your mind does all the work and if it goes on too long you can end up with a creation in your mind thats far from the reality. i would love the big surprise to be that cyberpunk2077 is also gta 6! now that would be something 🙃


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 7, 2020)

I am playing the devils advocate here ... people, grow up, don't play games and compose some music or do anything else that is productive! Games like these are highly addictive and cause lots of people to fall into a huge depression. As much as I find the design of this game very cool ... I just know it will feel dull after having played though it. You will wonder after playing ... where has all that time gone?! What have I done? If you are honest to yourself, you know that to be true.


----------



## tc9000 (Dec 7, 2020)

yeah, gta 5: i want those 180 hours BACK! oh god that's 22 full working days HAHAHA


----------



## tc9000 (Dec 7, 2020)

wait a minute... i'm spending way too much time at WORK! shit!


----------



## Traz (Dec 7, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> I am playing the devils advocate here ... people, grow up, don't play games and compose some music or do anything else that is productive! Games like these are highly addictive and cause lots of people to fall into a huge depression. As much as I find the design of this game very cool ... I just know it will feel dull after having played though it. You will wonder after playing ... where has all that time gone?! What have I done? If you are honest to yourself, you know that to be true.


I'm often inspired by games to create more. 

I also play games to take breaks from composing to take my mind off of music for 15-30 min before getting back to it.

Video games save lives.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 7, 2020)

Traz said:


> I'm often inspired by games to create more.
> 
> I also play games to take breaks from composing to take my mind off of music for 15-30 min before getting back to it.
> 
> Video games save lives.



+1


----------



## purple (Dec 7, 2020)

Traz said:


> What makes you think it won't? This is CD Projekt Red were talking about.


There's been too much hype about it. Never ends well. I've been in those kinds of hype trains before. I have built a sixth sense for a hype bubble at this point. That said I do agree if anyone can pull off hype like that they might be the kinds of devs who could do it. If it ends up being good and I ever feel in the mood for an RPG I might buy it at some point on sale.


----------



## jononotbono (Dec 7, 2020)

I cant wait for a bit of escapism and hopefully this game will suck me into a world and give me an experience I can think about for the rest of my life just like Red Redemption 2 and The Last of Us II did. And above all, I welcome a bit of fun.


----------



## pawelmorytko (Dec 7, 2020)

I'm looking forward to it! There are a few things I'm worried about that I won't enjoy like:

Combat - from the gameplay it didn't look too exciting to me

UI - I know it's part of the retro style but I just didn't find some UI elements appealing

First Person camera - I just cannot stand first person games, even shooters. I find it more immersive actually seeing my character in 3rd person, like The Witcher 3 for example - game from the same developer, was in 3rd person and one of the most immersive experiences I've ever had. Also I kinda find it counter intuitive to boast about all of this awesome super cool futuristic customising on your character, when most of the time you probably won't even see your character...

But anyway, that's just a few things that I have a bit of gripe with. I'm super excited about the story, world, characters, and music of course!


----------



## LamaRose (Dec 7, 2020)

And I thought Cyberpunk was an upcoming movie! And most of the nerd lingo here is Greek to me... but you've got me fired up! I wanna be extra worthless too. So now I'm gonna have to download the only computer game that I ever bought and see if this old mind can handle it 27 years later:









‎Myst (Legacy) for Mobile


‎Myst for iOS. The complete worlds of Myst, in all its original elegance, in the palm of your hand. ** RIVEN: The Sequel To Myst, is also available! ** ** realMyst for iOS and iPadOS is also available! ** Appletell - "I can’t put Myst down; I’m as hooked as I was when it first came out." (5...



apps.apple.com


----------



## Karl Feuerstake (Dec 7, 2020)

Cyberpunk 2077 review


CD Projekt Red returns with an incredible setting undermined by an onslaught of bugs.




www.pcgamer.com





Looks like it's gonna need some updates, sadly


----------



## MarcusD (Dec 7, 2020)

Rather play the occasional game and stimulate the mind, becoming inspired by others creativity than rot my brain watchin awfully written TV shows or pollitically injected hollywood movies.


----------



## J-M (Dec 7, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> I am playing the devils advocate here ... people, grow up, don't play games and compose some music or do anything else that is productive! Games like these are highly addictive and cause lots of people to fall into a huge depression. As much as I find the design of this game very cool ... I just know it will feel dull after having played though it. You will wonder after playing ... where has all that time gone?! What have I done? If you are honest to yourself, you know that to be true.



Games are one of the main reasons why I make music with sample libraries.


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 8, 2020)

Yeah, I get it! Go to a bunch of cocain addicts and tell them they should quit. Of course, they will find all
sorts of reasons why the stuff is good and increasing creativity.  I knew my post wouldn’t be popular!

Well, I guess there are some people that are able to control their gaming time at an acceptable level. I have just seen to many who lose themselves in these kinds of games and start neglecting their real lives. And scientific studies back that up. How do they say ... Games are the new smoking?!

Make of that what you will. I am not your enemy. I was also playing as a kid. But at some point in adolescence I quit. I still look at the progress that games make with fascination. But I also know I could have never reached the same potential had I continued with gaming through all of my life so far ...


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 8, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> I just know it will feel dull after having played though it. You will wonder after playing ... where has all that time gone?! What have I done? If you are honest to yourself, you know that to be true.



Sounds like the Tuesday after Black Friday sales.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 8, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Some people that are able to control their gaming time at an acceptable level.
> 
> ...I also know I could have never reached the same potential had I continued with gaming through all of my life so far ...



Unless you just became one of those people who controlled their gaming time at an acceptable level 

Anything can become the new smoking. Addiction really is only one thing, albeit with the 'chosen' form varying in destructiveness to one's health. Ultimately, if one views gaming as a form of down-time/leisure activity, and displaces other similar activities, then nothing is lost.

And there are people quite able to use even the most incredibly so-called 'addictive' drugs on a not-too-often basis.


----------



## MarcusD (Dec 8, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Yeah, I get it! Go to a bunch of cocain addicts and tell them they should quit. Of course, they will find all
> sorts of reasons why the stuff is good and increasing creativity.  I knew my post wouldn’t be popular!
> 
> Well, I guess there are some people that are able to control their gaming time at an acceptable level. I have just seen to many who lose themselves in these kinds of games and start neglecting their real lives. And scientific studies back that up. How do they say ... Games are the new smoking?!
> ...



TBH it all comes down to the individual, their upbringing and environment. It has nothing to do with gaming itself. Over the years the paradigm has changed slightly, mainly due to parents being lazy and tech companies taking advantage of that.

For most parents It's easier to put an iPad in front of a kids face rather than actually teach values or do something inclusive and constructive. So if a child grows up addicted, with loose values and no sense of hard-work / reward, then who's to blame? The parent or developer? Cause and effect. Statistics do not seem to take that into account. Like the majority of issues in society, they're purely cultural.

These days I feel bad for (not just kids) but adults too because tech companies spend more time making their platforms addictive to retain attention for $$$. Many adults spend 90% of their time glued to phones on Facebook, Instagram or some other shit, but that's socially acceptable for most people? We're all consumers, if someone never learnt how to say "no" then that's not a companies problem. That's the individuals problem that they are responsible for.

That's my 2pence on the matter.

I know you're not our enemy btw


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 8, 2020)

el-bo said:


> And there are people quite able to use even the most incredibly so-called 'addictive' drugs on a not-too-often basis.


And THAT sounds like a GREAT idea!


----------



## MGdepp (Dec 8, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> Sounds like the Tuesday after Black Friday sales.


Yeah, pretty much the same, but the sales and shopping addiction - though harmful for intelligence and purse - is not as strong as games can be.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 8, 2020)

purple said:


> To be honest I'm more excited for the pile of salt it will cause when it doesn't live up to the hype.



I don't think that's gonna happen. Witcher 3 was constantly drummed up to be one of the finest video games ever made, despite being a profoundly mediocre and crude piece of pulp. You'll be hearing the same accolades regarding Cyberpunk, no matter how good or bad it turns out. That's already been taken care of.


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 8, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> Yeah, pretty much the same, but the sales and shopping addiction - though harmful for intelligence and purse - is not as strong as games can be.



More so I'd say, come Friday some people will be down £40 and might feel down. 
Compared to hundreds of £'s and even thousands in some cases, still not making music, months of debt, regret, belief and self doubt. 

I'm still playing Witcher 3 and I've never felt bad or unhappy.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 8, 2020)

pawelmorytko said:


> First Person camera - I just cannot stand first person games, even shooters. I find it more immersive actually seeing my character in 3rd person, like The Witcher 3 for example



Not trying to argue you out of your preference (You like what you like), but I can't think of a 3rd-person game that wouldn't be improved by at least offering 1st-person as a switchable option. Playing GTA V in 1st-person, for example, is a revelation; not being able to use 1-p perspective in Sleeping Dogs, even when driving, is just damned frustrating.

I do appreciate that having one's character on screen perhaps offers a more movie-like immersion. But for me, immersion means putting myself as far inside the action as possible (Virtual-reality being the logical next step). And clunky movement, dodgy camera-work and just having to always deal with the protagonist front-and-centre, residing in between me and the on-screen world, breaks any illusion for me. 

That's not to say that I haven't enjoyed 3-p games. How much I enjoyed them depends on things already mentioned (Movement clunkiness, camera fluidity etc.). And I'm currently downloading 'The Witcher 3'. Hoping the experience is fluid enough to be able to enjoy the game


----------



## el-bo (Dec 8, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> And THAT sounds like a GREAT idea!



Perhaps you'd like to join my 'Solstice Heroin Club'?


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 8, 2020)

Yeah first person all day for me. Imagine Alien isolation in 3rd person, would literally break the game.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 8, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> Yeah first person all day for me. Imagine Alien isolation in 3rd person, would literally break the game.



Not played that, yet. Although I have downloaded it, ready to try.

One of my worst experiences with 3-p recently was Splinter Cell: Blacklist. Extremely clunky movement and sneaky stealth gameplay don't make for a fun combo :(


----------



## pawelmorytko (Dec 8, 2020)

Nah I totally get how some people prefer first person! It's just really not for me. I always played GTA and Skyrim in 3rd person too. And games like God of War, I cannot imagine being in first person, and that was probably the peak of cinematic gaming experience for me, with the camera never cutting and only panning and stuff.


----------



## jononotbono (Dec 8, 2020)

Playing 1 game is definitely the end of someone’s life. It’s gonna lead to selling all music equipment and going on benefits and playing all game releases from this point on. Bye bye old life! Hello new gaming life! Damn Cyberpunk! I should never have played that thing. I lost my house, studio, music work and friends (but that doesn’t matter because I’ve now got tons of only gam3r friends and they all play Cyberpunk so we’re always together) 😂 

I’ve personally had just over 2 weeks off from working in a studio in 16months. 12 - 20hr days. Relentless.

I can’t wait to spend the next few weeks pottering about in my U.K. music Lab, doing some personal music stuff and yes, wasting my life on 1 game over the Christmas holidays whilst getting the Christmas cheeseboard out with some friends and finally having a beer (best lock up the Heroin needles as I just won’t be able to control myself because we all know what a gateway drug a few beers are just like playing the occasional game). What a waste of life! And oh the shame! 


View attachment IMG_4535.MP4


Here’s a thought... Imagine all the wasted life people spend being on online forums. Ya know, instead of writing music. Yeah. 😂


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 8, 2020)

Cyberpunk has been out since 1984. I sure wish this game had a unique name. Now millions will think of the game instead of the genre. Then again, it may introduce some to earlier incarnations, so there’s that.


----------



## jononotbono (Dec 8, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> Yeah first person all day for me. Imagine Alien isolation in 3rd person, would literally break the game.



How do you feel about a game such as Red Dead, Fallout etc being able to switch between first person AND 3rd person? I’m curious as I’m learning how to make a Videogame


----------



## Zero&One (Dec 8, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> How do you feel about a game such as Red Dead, Fallout etc being able to switch between first person AND 3rd person? I’m curious as I’m learning how to make a Videogame



True. RDR2 is possibly the best game I ever played. But was in 3rd person mostly, I did like galloping on the horse in first person. Half life 1/2 the other. So I think it depends on the game really, like Alien can only be first person, otherwise the tension is gone. But Tomb Raider for example, 3rd person made that game, as we connected with Lara more and felt empathy for her.

An interesting one you can check is Dead By Daylight. One person is the killer, 4 others are survivors. All online.
But the killer is 1st person and the survivors are 3rd. Again, I think one makes _you_ feel in power and the other makes you care for the survivor and your team. Might help?


----------



## easyrider (Dec 8, 2020)

pawelmorytko said:


> First Person camera - I just cannot stand first person games, even shooters. I find it more immersive actually seeing my character in 3rd person, like The Witcher 3 for example -



I'm the complete opposite...I hate third person games...Tomb Raider an exception....

I find First person so much more involving...


----------



## easyrider (Dec 8, 2020)

Oh and I only game in the Winter Months.....Once spring hits its pond time, planting up and watching things grow....

Cold Dark UK nights and Christmas and new year?...Nothing better than a bit of studio time...bit of creativity....then some cool new game, new GFX toy and some beer and cheese like @jononotbono suggests...


----------



## el-bo (Dec 8, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> How do you feel about a game such as Red Dead, Fallout etc being able to switch between first person AND 3rd person? I’m curious as I’m learning how to make a Videogame



I think this is quite a good comparison of similar games. For me, the unrealistic movements, and bad camera (Jarring angle changes and scenery pop-up included) are just too distracting:




--


Given how opinion is so divided, switchable is best:






--


Personally, I like 1st-person with a 3rd-person cover-mechanic:


----------



## ghobii (Dec 8, 2020)

1st person or 3rd is fine with me.
I'm concerned that there's driving! Everytime I play one of these GTA style games, just when I start getting into it, there is the inevitable car chase where you have to get away from the cops. Driving with a keyboard is impossible! I may finally have to get a controller and get used to using it. I want Cyberpunk with horses!


----------



## doctoremmet (Dec 8, 2020)

ghobii said:


> I want Cyberpunk with horses!


*Steampunk 1877 confirmed!*


----------



## el-bo (Dec 8, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> *Steampunk 1877 confirmed!*


----------



## el-bo (Dec 8, 2020)

ghobii said:


> I want Cyberpunk with horses!


----------



## doctoremmet (Dec 8, 2020)




----------



## Naroth Audio (Dec 8, 2020)

I'm definitely excited, I had been stressing to upgrade my gpu to play it on. I woke up at 5am for every 30 series launch and miserably failed, but got super lucky last week on a random newegg drop.


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 8, 2020)

I’ll probably get it from a sale along the way or when it comes to Gamepass, but I’m in the minority that’s not that excited about it. Maybe it’s because I’m also in the minority about The Witcher 3 as well, liked the 2nd one better.

I’m a bit worried about the talk that the main story/single player campaign is said to be short. Dunno if that’s the case as I’ve not looked into it, but nowadays anything less than 60 hours or so feels way too short...


----------



## el-bo (Dec 8, 2020)

Speaking of addiction  







It's been fun, guys! All the best to you and yours


----------



## Naroth Audio (Dec 8, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> I’m a bit worried about the talk that the main story/single player campaign is said to be short. Dunno if that’s the case as I’ve not looked into it, but nowadays anything less than 60 hours or so feels way too short...


Yeah Ive even seen that currently it has a lot of bugs, but hopefully they patch it all asap. I know launch day theres supposed to be a 50GB update. As for story length hopefully short is not the case. Although with CDPR, the amount of gameplay they have outside of the main quest (and in depth good gameplay at that) from side quests is incredible. My play through of the witcher was something like for every hour of main quest I must have spent 3 or so on side quests, hopefully thats also the case with CP2077!


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 8, 2020)

If it's too buggy I might get Death Stranding instead I think. I can be patient and I'd rather get a smooth experience from Cyberpunk 2077.




MGdepp said:


> Yeah, pretty much the same, but the sales and shopping addiction - though harmful for intelligence and purse - is not as strong as games can be.



You are generalizing both people and games. If you take a closer look, you'll find that both people and games come with wildly varying characteristics that make them more prone to certain addictions or more addictive to certain people. 

To take your example of shopping vs. gaming, I met someone who admitted to maybe having a bit of a shopping addiction after spending about 5000$ on bandcamp in a single year, but has almost no interest in singleplayer games, and only occasionally plays multiplayer games with friends on voicechat. Gaming just doesn't excite everyone in the same way.

I wonder where your extreme views on games come from, like what games do you know? E.g. I think you'll have a tough time selling to anyone that any game in the point-and-click adventure genre (oldschool lucas arts games etc.) is more addictive than reading a book or watching a movie. Not every game is like World of Warcraft or all those f2p mobile games with gambling mechanics... 





Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Cyberpunk has been out since 1984. I sure wish this game had a unique name. Now millions will think of the game instead of the genre. Then again, it may introduce some to earlier incarnations, so there’s that.



But Cyberpunk *2077 *has a unique name, clearly distinct from Cyberpunk 2020 for example. Just not everyone is using it. I wonder if they will call the next one Cyberpunk 2078 or 2088 or something like that. What else should they have named it, while still making clear it's based on that specific IP? 




Bonus recommendation for Cyberpunk fans: Technobabylon.


----------



## AdamKmusic (Dec 8, 2020)

Oh yes, i've got one more track to finish on an album by tomorrow night! My copy was shipped today so hopefully it'll definitely come on Thursday


----------



## easyrider (Dec 8, 2020)

AdamKmusic said:


> Oh yes, i've got one more track to finish on an album by tomorrow night! My copy was shipped today so hopefully it'll definitely come on Thursday



Physical Media In 2021? Think of the planet!


----------



## AdamKmusic (Dec 8, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Physical Media In 2021? Think of the planet!


Good job its 2020


----------



## MA-Simon (Dec 8, 2020)

I ordered a new 2TB SSD yesterday especially for this, so I can actually download new stuff. Super excited for that game. I don't care for all the sensational salty reviews. They can suck my ass.

Tomorrow is my last day of work until January 4th. So I' will be stocking up on food and drink... probably less time on vi-control unless CSW gets released.

Also: I stocked up on CD Project Red Stocks months ago, they are already nicely rising up. So essentially the game has already paid for itself multible times.


----------



## Naroth Audio (Dec 9, 2020)

Just 30 minutes friends! Who else is excited?


----------



## Loïc D (Dec 9, 2020)

tc9000 said:


> yeah, gta 5: i want those 180 hours BACK! oh god that's 22 full working days HAHAHA


That’s insane !
(from the guy who spent 300hrs around on Skyrim and knows the place of every rabbit hole)


----------



## Traz (Dec 9, 2020)

Loïc D said:


> That’s insane !
> (from the guy who spent 300hrs around on Skyrim and knows the place of every rabbit hole)


Since we're bragging, I've got 587 hours in MGSV.


----------



## tc9000 (Dec 9, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Oh and I only game in the Winter Months.....Once spring hits its pond time, planting up and watching things grow....
> 
> Cold Dark UK nights and Christmas and new year?...Nothing better than a bit of studio time...bit of creativity....then some cool new game, new GFX toy and some beer and cheese like @jononotbono suggests...



I have to say I'm quite tempted by the pond concept. I have the garden for it and I can't (won't?) grow anything... you, sir... have planted a tiny pond-shaped seed in my mind.


----------



## tc9000 (Dec 9, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> I’ll probably get it from a sale along the way or when it comes to Gamepass...



this.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 9, 2020)

tc9000 said:


> I have to say I'm quite tempted by the pond concept. I have the garden for it and I can't (won't?) grow anything... you, sir... have planted a tiny pond-shaped seed in my mind.



Here is mine in full swing


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 9, 2020)

Seems like CP2077 is having a rough launch (no surprise). Their steam forum has literal hundreds of threads with complaints about download problems.



Traz said:


> Since we're bragging, I've got 587 hours in MGSV.


That was a really great game, one of the best stealth games I've played. Did you do multiple playthroughs or mostly play multiplayer? Close to 600h for that game seems like a lot to me.


----------



## Traz (Dec 9, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> That was a really great game, one of the best stealth games I've played. Did you do multiple playthroughs or mostly play multiplayer? Close to 600h for that game seems like a lot to me.


Many, many playthroughs. It's one of my favorite games and have completed 99% of the game. The only reason I don't have 100% is because there is just ONE FRIGGIN ANIMAL that I was never able to capture, and believe me... I tried. I tried real hard.

I'm not crazy, I swear


----------



## jononotbono (Dec 9, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> but nowadays anything less than 60 hours or so feels way too short...



The Last of Us II is not 60hrs. Around 25hrs and it’s one of the best games ever made. Probably the only game so far to deliver a story like you would find in a film.

I’d much rather quality over quantity.


----------



## jononotbono (Dec 9, 2020)

So I’ve been renting my house to two friends and one of them loves gaming. So much so he just revealed to me he bought this...





It’s only a 3090 😂 

And he’s ready to go for Cyberpunk. I’ll be in the background tutting saying “think of all the things you could be achieving in life if you weren’t playing this!


----------



## Billy Palmer (Dec 9, 2020)

VIcontrol is my favourite gaming forum


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 10, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> The Last of Us II is not 60hrs. Around 25hrs and it’s one of the best games ever made. Probably the only game so far to deliver a story like you would find in a film.
> 
> I’d much rather quality over quantity.



Haven’t played the sequel, but the first one was brilliant. Have to play that one as well when it comes to Gamepass... 

And I totally agree with quality over quantity, that's not the case. But recently I've found myself much more enthralled by games that take their time to develop the story, develop the characters, tell the backstory of the world in depth and make the NPC's feel that they're not just props to pass by. You can definitely tell a story - a great story - in a couple dozen hours in games, and sometimes that's just what's needed. I enjoyed the hell out of the story in TLOU1, or all the Deus Ex games for example.

But when the quantity meets quality, that's what I'm looking for. I'm currently playing through Trails, a JRPG series that currently has 10 games that are interconnected (with 5 or 6 more planned) and besides telling stand-alone stories in individual games, the series is divided to story arcs which all come together as a one huge story. And the character writing is superb in the series.

Or maybe I'm just getting old and start to prefer stories that are told slowly...

What I meant about my concern about the length of Cyberpunk 2077 is that I hope that the devs have taken their time to flesh out the world and develop the characters in a believable way. But kept the filler stuff to minimum. Nobody really likes those fetch quests that pollutes even some of the greatest games.


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 10, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> I am playing the devils advocate here ... people, grow up, don't play games and compose some music or do anything else that is productive! Games like these are highly addictive and cause lots of people to fall into a huge depression. As much as I find the design of this game very cool ... I just know it will feel dull after having played though it. You will wonder after playing ... where has all that time gone?! What have I done? If you are honest to yourself, you know that to be true.


OK, Boomer.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 10, 2020)

I just read a couple Cyberpunk 2077 reviews and... I think I'll buy something else to play over the holidays. The negative reviews sound like the game is chock full of stuff that would bother me, and even the positive reviews sound kind of negative to me. On Steam it's at 75% positive, for a game that was this hyped and a developer that is almost universally loved, this is pretty damning imho. That should have been an easy 90% or better.


----------



## Noeticus (Dec 11, 2020)

Are there any other really good "open world" "sandbox" type games out now or about to come out?

You know we can't wait for "GTA 6" forever.


----------



## J-M (Dec 11, 2020)

Noeticus said:


> Are there any other really good "open world" "sandbox" type games out now or about to come out?
> 
> You know we can't wait for "GTA 6" forever.



Depends how much you've played games. Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon: Zero Dawn are some that come to mind...


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 11, 2020)

purple said:


> To be honest I'm more excited for the pile of salt it will cause when it doesn't live up to the hype. I don't think I'll buy it but I am ironically just excited for launch day as those who do.



Has the launch turned out as fun for you as you expected? :D





Noeticus said:


> Are there any other really good "open world" "sandbox" type games out now or about to come out?
> 
> You know we can't wait for "GTA 6" forever.



You'll have to be a little more specific about what you've played and what you're looking for. Subnautica is fantastic, if you haven't played it yet, I highly recommend it.


----------



## method1 (Dec 11, 2020)

I played a couple hours on ps4, it's amazing! Bugs and all!


----------



## Traz (Dec 11, 2020)

so far I've spent nearly an hour in the settings menus!


----------



## AdamKmusic (Dec 11, 2020)

Made it into act 2, bit of a rough start but now I’m getting more into it I’m really enjoying it!

I’m playing on the Series X so hoping that we don’t have to wait too long for the next gen update


----------



## J-M (Dec 11, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Subnautica is fantastic, if you haven't played it yet, I highly recommend it.



Another vote for Subnautica. The atmosphere is amazing!


----------



## jononotbono (Dec 11, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> Haven’t played the sequel, but the first one was brilliant. Have to play that one as well when it comes to Gamepass...
> 
> And I totally agree with quality over quantity, that's not the case. But recently I've found myself much more enthralled by games that take their time to develop the story, develop the characters, tell the backstory of the world in depth and make the NPC's feel that they're not just props to pass by. You can definitely tell a story - a great story - in a couple dozen hours in games, and sometimes that's just what's needed. I enjoyed the hell out of the story in TLOU1, or all the Deus Ex games for example.
> 
> ...



Honestly, just play TLOU part II.You’ll soon have a new best game of all time that is around 25hrs. I just started playing it again and it’s stunning in every way.


----------



## shponglefan (Dec 11, 2020)

J-M said:


> Another vote for Subnautica. The atmosphere is amazing!



+1 Subnautica is fantastic. Probably my favorite game of the past decade.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 11, 2020)

The only game that ever grabbed me was Far Cry 3. I rather find that games get boring quickly these days.

Oh and Half Life of course - probably the best game of all time. 

And I've tried the new Half Life Alyx in VR - it's pretty amazing - the VR is really effective.

But to be honest, i only like to play a game for 20 minutes or so, and then I turn them off.

Oh, one more thing - if you have an iPad then you must try 'The Room' series.


----------



## Noeticus (Dec 11, 2020)

Well.... I am looking for Xbox console games that are similar to GTA, Just Cause, where I can run around an open world and use guns etc, cars etc.

I am not into bows and arrows, or westerns, or fantasy magic spell type games.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 11, 2020)

Noeticus said:


> Well.... I am looking for Xbox console games that are similar to GTA, Just Cause, where I can run around an open world and use guns etc, cars etc.



Mafia II might be a contender. More linear and story-driven than the examples you've given, but you can still drop everything, go for long drives and shoot-up the place. The game oozes character and atmosphere, with great characters, acting and well-written dialogue.

They've recently released newer versions of I (Not yet played) and II, with each getting a facelift to look a bit more suited to the (now) outgoing generation. Definitely gonna get the collection, at some point. It's been a while since my last playthrough


----------



## Traz (Dec 11, 2020)

el-bo said:


> Mafia II might be a contender. More linear and story-driven than the examples you've given, but you can still drop everything, go for long drives and shoot-up the place. The game oozes character and atmosphere, with great characters, acting and well-written dialogue.
> 
> They've recently released newer versions of I (Not yet played) and II, with each getting a facelift to look a bit more suited to the (now) outgoing generation. Definitely gonna get the collection, at some point. It's been a while since my last playthrough


I definitely want to get the new modernized Mafia 1. That was one of my favorite games ever back in the day.

I remember being so impressed that my car could run out of gas, it was revolutionary for back then haha.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 11, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> But to be honest, i only like to play a game for 20 minutes or so, and then I turn them off.



Maybe try Devil Daggers if you're up for a shooter challenge: 






Noeticus said:


> Well.... I am looking for Xbox console games that are similar to GTA, Just Cause, where I can run around an open world and use guns etc, cars etc.
> 
> I am not into bows and arrows, or westerns, or fantasy magic spell type games.



Watchdogs? Sleeping Dogs? Saints Row?


----------



## el-bo (Dec 11, 2020)

Traz said:


> I definitely want to get the new modernized Mafia 1. That was one of my favorite games ever back in the day.
> 
> I remember being so impressed that my car could run out of gas, it was revolutionary for back then haha.



Definitely a lot of love and attention to detail put into those games. I'm looking forward to playing the first game, also.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 11, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Maybe try Devil Daggers if you're up for a shooter challenge:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hated Sleeping Dogs at first, but then started getting into it. Really let down by the driving (Shooting ain't too hot, either). Story, characters acting etc. save it.
Ended up abandoning it when I got Doom 2016, though, which I bought as a casual shooter and which I didn't think I'd like very much. Ended up being wrong on both counts 

So for 'straight' shooter recommendations, I'd say Doom 2016 and/or (but really, and...) Titanfall 2. Both are extremely slick with nigh-on perfect shooting mechanics. Good times!


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 11, 2020)

Just Cause is a fun open world romp.


----------



## Paulogic (Dec 11, 2020)

Saw the game yesterday at my nephews home... saw some weird stuff about anatomics... Bugs?


----------



## emilio_n (Dec 12, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Honestly, just play TLOU part II.You’ll soon have a new best game of all time that is around 25hrs. I just started playing it again and it’s stunning in every way.


TLOU2 is the best game in history.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 12, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> TLOU2 is the best game in history.



How about no.


----------



## emilio_n (Dec 12, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> How about no.


I was too passionate, it's true. I can think several old games that could fight for my number one. But I really enjoyed with TLOU. All depends on the taste of each one, of course! YOur favourite one?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 12, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> I was too passionate, it's true. I can think several old games that could fight for my number one. But I really enjoyed with TLOU. All depends on the taste of each one, of course! YOur favourite one?



Very hard to say of course. Off the top of my head, Zelda - Breath of the Wild and Dark Souls 3 come to mind.


----------



## Noeticus (Dec 12, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> TLOU2 is the best game in history.



Too bad it's not also on X-box. :(


----------



## jononotbono (Dec 13, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> TLOU2 is the best game in history.



It's up there for sure. If you haven't already, go and play Red Dead Redemption 2.That is equally a contender for my favourite game of all time.



Noeticus said:


> Too bad it's not on X-box. :(



The exact reason you should have a Playstation. I've always liked Sony for their creativity and choices of IP. I think many of the best games have been developed on a Playstation.

The Last of Us parts 1 and 2, Uncharted 1, 2, 3, 4, God of War are just a few incredible titles that shouldn't be missed out on!


----------



## el-bo (Dec 13, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> The exact reason you should have a Playstation.



Can't stand console exclusivity, on either side of the equation :(


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 13, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> The exact reason you should have a Playstation. I've always liked Sony for their creativity and choices of IP. I think many of the best games have been developed on a Playstation.
> 
> The Last of Us parts 1 and 2, Uncharted 1, 2, 3, 4, God of War are just a few incredible titles that shouldn't be missed out on!



I wanted to buy a PS5, because they seem to have the better exclusives, but they're instantly sold out everywhere and I'm neither paying scalper prices for one nor camping in front of a store. 
RDR 1 was great and I'm looking forward to RDR 2, but the stupid rockstar launcher doesn't run on my PC, so I'll have to buy it for console once I get a new one.


----------



## emilio_n (Dec 13, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> It's up there for sure. If you haven't already, go and play Red Dead Redemption 2.That is equally a contender for my favourite game of all time.


I played and I agree with you.
One of my best experiences playing games was with Phantasmagoria in the old times when Sierra was the biggest studio. Yes... I am quite old...


----------



## jononotbono (Dec 13, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> I played and I agree with you.
> One of my best experiences playing games was with Phantasmagoria in the old times when Sierra was the biggest studio. Yes... I am quite old...



I don't remember that. I do remember Batman on the Amiga. It was killer. I don't ever go back to these times though as I don't want my memories ruined.


----------



## emilio_n (Dec 13, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> don't remember that. I do remember Batman on the Amiga. It was killer. I don't ever go back to these times though as I don't want my memories ruined.


This one. 7 CDs to play if I remember well...


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 13, 2020)

Another old gamerfart here.

I think the late 90s or early 2000s was the era where we saw the biggest advancements in gaming. We got Deus Ex and Half-Life which were huge leaps from the likes of Quake, and we got Ocarina of Time and Outcast which were huge 3D adventures that just weren’t possible a few years before. Then there the first(?) forays into open-world sandbox worlds in Morrowind and GTA3.

I think there hasn’t been many games after that period that has had such a profound effect on me. Those were real eye-openers, like ”you can do this in games?” I can still remember the feeling.

Of course newer games swipe the floor with these games when it comes to storytelling and technical presentation etc. but I find hard to get *overly* hyped about new games when it’s been more or less diminishing returns than really revolutionary stuff. And the same applies to new console generations, when it’s more or less the same stuff with more processing power. Well, except for Nintendo.

Sorry about the rant, just got excited over old games  Of course I get excited about new games, and games are better than ever. But those moments of awe are probably more scarce the more one has seen.


----------



## doctoremmet (Dec 13, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> Another old gamerfart here.
> 
> I think the late 90s or early 2000s was the era where we saw the biggest advancements in gaming. We got Deus Ex and Half-Life which were huge leaps from the likes of Quake, and we got Ocarina of Time and Outcast which were huge 3D adventures that just weren’t possible a few years before. Then there the first(?) forays into open-world sandbox worlds in Morrowind and GTA3.
> 
> ...


Great post mate. Very recognizable feelings!


----------



## doctoremmet (Dec 13, 2020)

By the way. Playing this on Google Stadia is pretty amazing. I hear the current gen consoles aren’t cutting it. Let me rephrase: CP2077 isn’t. And RTX3070s are pretty non-existent. As are next gen consoles. So Stadia or GeForce Now seem to be pretty solid “in between” options. Really amazed about the quality / lack of noticeable latency.


----------



## Traz (Dec 13, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> Another old gamerfart here.
> 
> I think the late 90s or early 2000s was the era where we saw the biggest advancements in gaming. We got Deus Ex and Half-Life which were huge leaps from the likes of Quake, and we got Ocarina of Time and Outcast which were huge 3D adventures that just weren’t possible a few years before. Then there the first(?) forays into open-world sandbox worlds in Morrowind and GTA3.
> 
> ...


Don't forget Systemshock 2! It's crazy how Half Life, Systemshock 2, and Deus Ex all came out one after the other between 98-00. 

And those are still some of the best games ever. I'm not speaking through nostalgia glasses either because I didn't play them when they came out.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 13, 2020)

Traz said:


> Don't forget Systemshock 2! It's crazy how Half Life, Systemshock 2, and Deus Ex all came out one after the other between 98-00.
> 
> And those are still some of the best games ever. I'm not speaking through nostalgia glasses either because I didn't play them when they came out.



SS2 is getting a remake...


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 13, 2020)

easyrider said:


> SS2 is getting a remake...


SS1 was supposed to, but somehow development wasn't going well and iirc someone's working on SS3. Meanwhile Prey is like "offbrand" SS3 and almost feels like they originally planned it to be System Shock in name too, but didn't manage to get the license. It's a must-play if you liked SS2 imho.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 13, 2020)

Wolfenstein: Old Blood and The New Order was a hoot as well...


----------



## Traz (Dec 13, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Meanwhile Prey is like "offbrand" SS3 and almost feels like they originally planned it to be System Shock in name too, but didn't manage to get the license. It's a must-play if you liked SS2 imho.


I agree with this. My immediate thought while playing prey was "This is very System Shock".


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 13, 2020)

Traz said:


> Don't forget Systemshock 2! It's crazy how Half Life, Systemshock 2, and Deus Ex all came out one after the other between 98-00.
> 
> And those are still some of the best games ever. I'm not speaking through nostalgia glasses either because I didn't play them when they came out.



I have to admit that the demo of SS2 left me too scared to get the full game 

Looking forward to the remake!


----------



## Traz (Dec 13, 2020)

easyrider said:


> SS2 is getting a remake...


I wasn't aware of that. I'm checking out a video on it right now.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 13, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> Another old gamerfart here.
> 
> I think the late 90s or early 2000s was the era where we saw the biggest advancements in gaming. We got Deus Ex and Half-Life which were huge leaps from the likes of Quake, and we got Ocarina of Time and Outcast which were huge 3D adventures that just weren’t possible a few years before. Then there the first(?) forays into open-world sandbox worlds in Morrowind and GTA3.
> 
> ...



Do you know the problem of wanting to play something but not being able to find anything that interests you enough, so you spend over an hour browsing stores, but end up playing nothing?


----------



## shponglefan (Dec 13, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> One of my best experiences playing games was with Phantasmagoria in the old times when Sierra was the biggest studio. Yes... I am quite old...



I remember that game. That was the first game I got after getting a CD-ROM. I might even still have the CDs somewhere.

I still remember being amazed at the sheer amount of storage space CDs offered. And how crazy hyped FMV was at the time.

It all seems so quaint now.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 13, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Wolfenstein: Old Blood and The New Order was a hoot as well...



Really enjoyed both of these, a few months back


----------



## shponglefan (Dec 13, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> Another old gamerfart here.
> 
> I think the late 90s or early 2000s was the era where we saw the biggest advancements in gaming. We got Deus Ex and Half-Life which were huge leaps from the likes of Quake, and we got Ocarina of Time and Outcast which were huge 3D adventures that just weren’t possible a few years before. Then there the first(?) forays into open-world sandbox worlds in Morrowind and GTA3.
> 
> I think there hasn’t been many games after that period that has had such a profound effect on me. Those were real eye-openers, like ”you can do this in games?” I can still remember the feeling.



I feel much the same way. I think by about the mid 90's is when all game genres had been defined. Everything that has come since has simply been iterations of the same technology and gameplay.

The only thing that has felt revolutionary since the 90's has been the current VR trend. It's the only thing that offers a truly transformative gaming experience.


----------



## VivianaSings (Dec 13, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Honestly, just play TLOU part II.You’ll soon have a new best game of all time that is around 25hrs. I just started playing it again and it’s stunning in every way.



I'm almost pissing myself here - thanks for the laugh - I needed that!


----------



## jononotbono (Dec 13, 2020)

VivianaSings said:


> I'm almost pissing myself here - thanks for the laugh - I needed that!



Im not sure what I’ve said that’s funny but laughing is good so excellent.



el-bo said:


> Can't stand console exclusivity, on either side of the equation :(



And my point was... that’s why people should own every platform.


----------



## visiblenoise (Dec 13, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Do you know the problem of wanting to play something but not being able to find anything that interests you enough, so you spend over an hour browsing stores, but end up playing nothing?


Least gratifying and most depressing form of procrastination ever!


----------



## InLight-Tone (Dec 13, 2020)

Ya, living in a virtual world for weeks, killing virtual people is a great use of one's LIFEtime I suppose?


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 13, 2020)

InLight-Tone said:


> Ya, living in a virtual world for weeks, killing virtual people is a great use of one's LIFEtime I suppose?


Look everyone. This guy’s preferred leisure activity is better than yours. You all should feel inferior to him and rethink your life for having different preferences.


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 13, 2020)

InLight-Tone said:


> Ya, living in a virtual world for weeks, killing virtual people is a great use of one's LIFEtime I suppose?



Don’t be shy, it’s OK to prefer something else. I’ve heard that the type of game where you spend your time dating anime girls (or boys) is quite popular as well.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 14, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> And my point was... that’s why people should own every platform.



I knew that would be your point. However, I don't agree that people should be 'forced' or even encouraged to spend huge amounts of extra cash on redundant machinery.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 14, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> Least gratifying and most depressing form of procrastination ever!



Yeah, but I can't be the only one. At least one of my friends ends up doing this too. And it _is_ depressing! Sometimes feels like the medium isn't moving forward anymore and as a society we're failing creatively and are drifting towards a grim future of endless regurgitation of old ideas. Like the movie industry...


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 14, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Do you know the problem of wanting to play something but not being able to find anything that interests you enough, so you spend over an hour browsing stores, but end up playing nothing?



I hear you, I've definitely been there. But recently I've amassed such a backlog of games that I have a good idea what I'll play next after I finish the one I'm currently playing (I rarely have more than one game that I actively play, at least story-heavy games).


----------



## J-M (Dec 14, 2020)

I really like this discussion about games on this forum. I mean, at the usual places it's a lot less...civil. I definitely agree with some of you about games becoming a bit stagnant. Few series come to mind that churn out a title every year or two and it's more or less the same - sometimes even worse. And like @gtrwll, I also have a huge backlog games waiting to be played...


----------



## Proteinshake (Dec 14, 2020)

Is this game really still in its early beta-phase? I'd love to pull the trigger, but ..

I still remember what a broken piece of digital garbage X3 and X4 it was in the beginning.
I still remember paying premium for ME Andromeda, having enjoyed it untill it was officially declared a failure and EOL. Thank you, EA.

Think I'll better go ahead with Read Dead Redemption 2 first and maybe after that reconsider it.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 14, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Yeah, but I can't be the only one. At least one of my friends ends up doing this too. And it _is_ depressing! Sometimes feels like the medium isn't moving forward anymore and as a society we're failing creatively and are drifting towards a grim future of endless regurgitation of old ideas. Like the movie industry...



Yeah, I largely lost interest a long ago too. I only have a Nintendo Switch, where I mostly play the first party titles and smaller games. I don't care one bit about "next gen" gaming. I do find it depressing, lol. My issue with it is that AAA gaming has not only become stale, but is actually _regressing_ in terms of what makes the medium compelling, valuable and unique. I'm taking _gameplay_ of course.

The most big titles that get a lot of attention currently are incredibly heavy on presentation and narrative. On the flipside, when you strip away all the bells and whistles, lipstick and hullaballoo, what you end up with is extremely basic, sometimes even surprisingly bad core gameplay design. It's just not fun to play. I think many gamers today like to _look at games_. The enjoyment is kind of passive - almost like a sightseeing tour, taking in all the detail the devs came up with. These games tend to be extremely expensive to make, but you can instantly tell what it was that ate up the budget. It's all smoke and mirrors. The Witchers, TLOUs, God Of Wars, etc., they're all guilty of this.

This to me is a problem because by trying to make the experience more cinematic, more narratively dense and more orchestrated, it puts games into a position where they're trying to impress in areas they'll never gonna be particularly good at. No matter how polished and staged all of this becomes, it will always feel inferior to the passive mediums which excell at providing spectacle and deep narrative - such as film or literature.

I have trouble getting "invested" in a story that constists of terrabytes of corny pre-arranged dialogue. Then you have these clunkily animated polygon piles jittering in front of you, acting as if they were saying something to you. I'm very surprised that gamers are able to accept that - their perception is already fully attuned to this peculiar and funky mode of presentation so that they don't even realize how utterly uncanny, and frankly, ridiculous it comes across. Games can't be that literal, it just doesn't work. Ironically, it fully separates me from any "immersion" the game is trying to enforce.

The idea of "immersion" IMO is generally completely misunderstood in gaming. The expectation seems to be that the more fluff, decoration, bells and whistles and _deus ex machina_ we can tack onto things, the more it will feel like something real you start feeling a part of. It's a fatally mistaken conception. What it does is actually the opposite.

If we really examine what we can really think of as immersion in games, it must be the effect of getting connected to the activity in such a way that you forget the outside world, become fully engrossed in the activity, accept the scenario with its rules and boundaries as natural and _good_, and achieve a flow state type of thing. If a game can achieve that - now you're immersed in it. Ironically, this worked better in 1984 with Tetris than it worked in Horizon Zero Dawn.

Immersion isn't just having a ton of pre-recorded dialogue, seemingly endless terrain and a bunch of visual details, trying to disguise the fact that we're dealing with cheap stage props here. It must be achieved by helping the player connect on a cognitive and senso-motoric level _first. _Then a judicious amount of presentation and narrative can further enhance the connection. Ideally, all these aspects connect perfectly like a gear drive and serve the same puprose, and when that happens, you get something as brilliant as Breath of the Wild.

Speaking of flow - this is actually another thing that games IMO tend to get terribly wrong currently. I _hate_ constantly being taken out of what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to establish a momentum, to connect, to see how it _feels _like - after all, I'm touching stuff with my hands, while the action on the screen is actually creating an illusion of real physics that respond to what my nerve impulses are doing. It outlines a world that doesn't exist, but I can still become a part of and literally feel! It's a wondrous idea, really, it's just incredible. And it's such a complex art form, being able to create that, to make it good and pleasing and motivating, incorporating a skill and challenge element into it, it's so deep. Only games can do that. And then when you count in how sounds and visual representations can tie into that, it's so fascinating. But it gets completely forgotten, which is scandalous.

Instead, nowadays you're mostly actually just playing your GUI and react to very simple "whack-a-mole" signals, but each of them are animated in such a bombastic way that it looks as if you finally truly defied the limits of hand-eye coordination, physics and reality. And to make it worse - every 30 fucking seconds, I'm stopped dead in my tracks because some NPC or narrator thinks they need to talk to me, they talk and talk and talk endlessly, giving me useless information I don't yet care about, or the game thinks its a good idea to interrupt me with stupid impressive pre-rendered sequences and cinematics, or they think they need to walk me through 30 minutes of establishing narrative and tutorials before I was even able to see if I LIKE THE GODDAMN GAME!

I've turned off games and never touched them again because they wouldn't let me _play _after sitting there for almost an hour. That's a seriously irresponsible handling of the audience's time and attention - and almost kind of arrogant. IMO you have to earn this kind of attention first. If the game's pacing and gameplay is good, I'm gonna get more invested in the story naturally. You can't just drop that shit on my head.

Games must make use of what makes them unique and sets them apart from other entertainment mediums, by being an _active _medium, as opposed to the passive ones like film and literature. By trying to compete with the latter on their own home turf, while neglecting their core potential, it's not surprising that much of the modern "prime time" gaming entertainment can be summed up as "pigs with lipstick".

Well, that's my little essay for today. Sorry about that.  I actually love games. I guess that's why I hate them.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 14, 2020)

Proteinshake said:


> Is this game really still in its early beta-phase? I'd love to pull the trigger, but ..



Buying at launch is rarely a good idea sadly:





Proteinshake said:


> Think I'll better go ahead with Read Dead Redemption 2 first and maybe after that reconsider it.



I think that's a good idea. And maybe after RDR2 check out Kingdom Come Deliverance if you don't mind the medieval setting. Haven't played RDR2 yet, but I liked KC:D even more than Skyrim or RDR1.






Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Yeah, I largely lost interest a long ago too. I only have a Nintendo Switch, where I mostly play the first party titles and smaller games. I don't care one bit about "next gen" gaming. I do find it depressing, lol. My issue with it is that AAA gaming has not only become stale, but is actually _regressing_ in terms of what makes the medium compelling, valuable and unique. I'm taking _gameplay_ of course.
> 
> The most big titles that get a lot of attention currently are incredibly heavy on presentation and narrative. On the flipside, when you strip away all the bells and whistles, lipstick and hullaballoo, what you end up with is extremely basic, sometimes even surprisingly bad core gameplay design. It's just not fun to play. I think many gamers today like to _look at games_. The enjoyment is kind of passive - almost like a sightseeing tour, taking in all the detail the devs came up with. These games tend to be extremely expensive to make, but you can instantly tell what it was that ate up the budget. It's all smoke and mirrors. The Witchers, TLOUs, God Of Wars, etc., they're all guilty of this.
> 
> ...



Great post! Although one thing I think is worth considering is that there are very different _types _of players, fun, and immersion. For example I wouldn't want to invalidate the walking sim genre or fans of the AAA sightseeing tours with shallow gameplay, just because it's often not my cup of tea, but I do get your frustrations, as I share quite a few of them. Did you play Doom Eternal? That one has much deeper gamedesign in a "hard to master" and "everything has a purpose" kind of sense, than most modern shooters. Some disliked it for its insistence on forcibly engaging the player with more gameplay mechanics at once than they are used to, and throwing challenges their way that can make even a seasoned shooter veteran sweat. That game got me much closer to the Tetris kind of immersion that you mentioned, because the core gameplay loop is very cognitively demanding.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 14, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Did you play Doom Eternal? That one has much deeper gamedesign in a "hard to master" and "everything has a purpose" kind of sense, than most modern shooters. Some disliked it for its insistence on forcibly engaging the player with more gameplay mechanics at once than they are used to, and throwing challenges their way that can make even a seasoned shooter veteran sweat.



Did you enjoy Doom 2016? I ask because there seems to be quite a divide between those who prefer one over t'other. I avoided '2016' for so long, because I thought it was the kind of shooter I normally don't enjoy. But I liked it a lot. Does that mean I should avoid 'Eternal'?


----------



## InLight-Tone (Dec 14, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> Look everyone. This guy’s preferred leisure activity is better than yours. You all should feel inferior to him and rethink your life for having different preferences.


 “I think that I cannot preserve my health and spirits, unless I spend four hours a day at least—and it is commonly more than that—sauntering through the woods and over the hills and fields, absolutely free from all worldly engagements. You may safely say, A penny for your thoughts, or a thousand pounds. When sometimes I am reminded that the mechanics and shopkeepers stay in their shops not only all the forenoon, but all the afternoon too, sitting with crossed legs, so many of them—as if the legs were made to sit upon, and not to stand or walk upon—I think that they deserve some credit for not having all committed suicide long ago.”
Henry David Thoreau, Walking


----------



## el-bo (Dec 14, 2020)

InLight-Tone said:


> “I think that I cannot preserve my health and spirits, unless I spend four hours a day at least—and it is commonly more than that—sauntering through the woods and over the hills and fields, absolutely free from all worldly engagements. You may safely say, A penny for your thoughts, or a thousand pounds. When sometimes I am reminded that the mechanics and shopkeepers stay in their shops not only all the forenoon, but all the afternoon too, sitting with crossed legs, so many of them—as if the legs were made to sit upon, and not to stand or walk upon—I think that they deserve some credit for not having all committed suicide long ago.”
> Henry David Thoreau, Walking



*Edited:* 'cause there was need for me to be snarky  


I don't see these pursuits as being mutually exclusive. It's perfectly possible to find time to enjoy walking and to game. I know, because I do both myself.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 14, 2020)

el-bo said:


> Did you enjoy Doom 2016? I ask because there seems to be quite a divide between those who prefer one over t'other. I avoided '2016' for so long, because I thought it was the kind of shooter I normally don't enjoy. But I liked it a lot. Does that mean I should avoid 'Eternal'?



Maybe? I thought 2016 was ok, but without the stellar soundtrack I don't think I'd have finished it. With the soundtrack I even gave it a second playthrough a couple months ago, just to experience it in context again. I've spent a lot of time studying the music of both games and trying to recreate similar synth patches etc.. 

2016 and Eternal are very different games imho. If you're in it for atmosphere and story, then I'd say 2016 is better. If you're in it for a more well-designed gameplay challenge that is unapologetically "gamey", but also demands that you play in a certain way, then I think Eternal is better. If you just want a straight old school shooter where you can use your favorite weapon all the time, you'll be disappointed. Eternal requires a playstile more similar to Quake 3 pro gamers that switch their weapons all the time - sometimes between every shot. To achieve high-level play it's basically required to remap the weapon selection buttons to more easily reachable keys because you'll be switching constantly mid battle if you're playing as intended. This youtuber has a couple interesting videos about the game: 




I didn't expect to like Doom Eternal as much as I did. Reviews sounded like it might frustrate me too much, but my Quake 3 experience carried over nicely so I felt more at home than in Doom 2016.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 14, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Did you play Doom Eternal? That one has much deeper gamedesign in a "hard to master" and "everything has a purpose" kind of sense, than most modern shooters. Some disliked it for its insistence on forcibly engaging the player with more gameplay mechanics at once than they are used to, and throwing challenges their way that can make even a seasoned shooter veteran sweat. That game got me much closer to the Tetris kind of immersion that you mentioned, because the core gameplay loop is very cognitively demanding.



It's on my list. I enjoyed its predecessor way more than I expected. It was so intense, it just wouldn't let up.

The movement itself is generally quite fast-paced, and there's none of that hide, take cover, mooch around type of thing you find in modern shooter design. It just constantly forces you to be right in the middle of it. It's totally in your face all of a sudden, even if you'd rather not want to, and you just learn to accept that that's what it does. It kinda forces you to elevate your degree of "up-ness", which is awesome. If I'm gonna play a game, it should affect me in some way.

The constant hi volume pressure and by-the-skin-of-your-teeth gameplay is made even more intense by the insane music and SFX and the whole over the top demonic setting - just crazy, LOL. I remember constantly feeling hyped and sensorially agitated playing that game, a real trip, was awesome


----------



## Proteinshake (Dec 14, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> And maybe after RDR2 check out Kingdom Come Deliverance if you don't mind the medieval setting. Haven't played RDR2 yet, but I liked KC:D even more than Skyrim or RDR1.



Thanks for that, this looks rather interesting! Reminds me of:


----------



## el-bo (Dec 14, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Maybe? I thought 2016 was ok, but without the stellar soundtrack I don't think I'd have finished it. With the soundtrack I even gave it a second playthrough a couple months ago, just to experience it in context again. I've spent a lot of time studying the music of both games and trying to recreate similar synth patches etc..
> 
> 2016 and Eternal are very different games imho. If you're in it for atmosphere and story, then I'd say 2016 is better. If you're in it for a more well-designed gameplay challenge that is unapologetically "gamey", but also demands that you play in a certain way, then I think Eternal is better. If you just want a straight old school shooter where you can use your favorite weapon all the time, you'll be disappointed. Eternal requires a playstile more similar to Quake 3 pro gamers that switch their weapons all the time - sometimes between every shot. To achieve high-level play it's basically required to remap the weapon selection buttons to more easily reachable keys because you'll be switching constantly mid battle if you're playing as intended. This youtuber has a couple interesting videos about the game:
> 
> ...




With the exception of the bit about "modern shooter design", I actually agree with pretty much everything Señor Hellfire wrote.

I generally like my games to give me a bit of freedom to choose when to engage and when to take cover. And I tend to prefer shooting against enemies that would prefer to live, as opposed to having to face waves of kamikaze monsters forcing me into perpetual, backwards circular-strafing (The Serious Sam games can seriously f*ck off, with that sh*t!). And that's what I thought I'd be getting with D'16, There are definitely moments where that happens. However, with a larger arsenal and increased health, shields etc, it was much easier to become the aggressor. 

It was intense, though. Would be fun to see some footage of my face, during gameplay (Fixed glare, and alternating between lockjaw and a good ol' LSD-like gurn, I'd imagine). Was still fair, though. What first seemed overwhelming could definitely be learnt with practise. Boss fights rewarded trial-and-error, with no frustrating gotchas. Even the platform elements were sold and fair (All missed leaps felt like user-error).

I felt compelled to play it, even though the intensity meant having to hold back.

And there lies the rub. The fact that you only really managed to get though it because of the music, perhaps suggests that we might lie on different sides of the divide. I have seen a few suggest that they like both, but for different moods. Who knows? Will definitely watch the video you posted.

Thanks


----------



## el-bo (Dec 14, 2020)

P.S Can't take advantage of your weapon-mapping suggestion on the XBone


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 14, 2020)

While looking for the Doom Eternal videos I just stumbled over this Cyberpunk non-review that raised even more doubts in me: 







Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It's on my list. I enjoyed its predecessor way more than I expected. It was so intense, it just wouldn't let up.
> 
> The movement itself is generally quite fast-paced, and there's none of that hide, take cover, mooch around type of thing you find in modern shooter design. It just constantly forces you to be right in the middle of it. It's totally in your face all of a sudden, even if you'd rather not want to, and you just learn to accept that that's what it does. It kinda forces you to elevate your degree of "up-ness", which is awesome. If I'm gonna play a game, it should affect me in some way.
> 
> The constant hi volume pressure and by-the-skin-of-your-teeth gameplay is made even more intense by the insane music and SFX and the whole over the top demonic setting - just crazy, LOL. I remember constantly feeling hyped and sensorially agitated playing that game, a real trip, was awesome



That sounds like you might enjoy Doom Eternal too! If anything it's _more _intense.




el-bo said:


> P.S Can't take advantage of your weapon-mapping suggestion on the XBone



That's a bit of a downside imho, I find Doom Eternal benefits more from mouse and keyboard than a lot of other first person games that I've played. I'm sure it's still fun with a gamepad, but I'd probably have to turn down the difficulty.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 14, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> I find Doom Eternal benefits more from mouse and keyboard than a lot of other first person games that I've played. I'm sure it's still fun with a gamepad, but I'd probably have to turn down the difficulty.



Will have to watch some walkthrough footage, to see how well it translates. It can't be completely broken on console, otherwise I'm sure I'd have picked up on it by now. 

Watched the video, though. And it kinda dawned on me that I'd been playing D'16 differently to how I normally play fps'. Normally, I'm a standard machine-gun, pistol and sniper kind of guy. Don't usually like shotguns (Usually like enemies dead before they get that close). However, with Doom I really ended up using all the guns I had. I guess it's partly down to actually being able to carry more than two weapons, but I seemed pretty happy to cycle through and try them all, in most scenarios.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 14, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> While looking for the Doom Eternal videos I just stumbled over this Cyberpunk non-review that raised even more doubts in me:



Sounds _exactly _like my kind of game, haha! I always knew that though. Everything about it was so perfectly predictable.


----------



## MA-Simon (Dec 14, 2020)

Imho Cyberpunk is fantastic. Really polished missions that feel very cinematic.
Just what I wanted. 

But: You really do need one of those next gen graphic cards. Imho without raytracing you will miss 99% of what makes the cyberpunk look happen. You absolutley want those neon light and rain reflections. Without it, it might look dull. (I have a 2080ti)


----------



## ghobii (Dec 15, 2020)

I'm really enjoying it too and I agree a powerful computer is really necessary to get the intended experience. I have an RTX2060 Super and am running everything set at ultra at 2660x1440 and its just gorgeous. I find just walking or driving around enjoyable.

The reported bugs and glitches are definitely there, but I think they are lessened if your machine isn't struggling.


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 17, 2020)

Well that hype faded fast. Those of you playing on consoles - is it really that bad? I mean, Sony removed it from their digital store due to the bugs, so that’s a huge thing for the (generally) most anticipated game of the year.


----------



## jononotbono (Dec 18, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> Well that hype faded fast. Those of you playing on consoles - is it really that bad? I mean, Sony removed it from their digital store due to the bugs, so that’s a huge thing for the (generally) most anticipated game of the year.



Someone I’m staying with is playing it on PC, 200fps in 4k (he’s using a 3090 GFX card to achieve that). Very pretty game. No idea about consoles though.


----------



## I like music (Dec 18, 2020)

Wow. I feel absolutely awful for all the devs etc who would have sweated over this for half (full) decade or whatever.

I'm glad CSW isn't being rushed for this very reason!


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 18, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Someone I’m staying with is playing it on PC, 200fps in 4k (he’s using a 3090 GFX card to achieve that). Very pretty game. No idea about consoles though.



Yeah I’ve heard the same, on a powerful PC it’s (mostly?) really good.


----------



## MA-Simon (Dec 18, 2020)

I feel awfull for the devs too. 
Because IT IS a really pretty and honestly amazing game. 
But it absolutely is not made for last gen PS4 and Xbox consoles. There is only so much they can fix performance wise.

... my CD RED Stock tanked hard today. 
But I belive in them. Let those old consoles die, refund und just focus on the next generation.
I firmly belive most of what CD wanted to do had to be axed because of old-gen compatibility.


----------



## I like music (Dec 18, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> I feel awfull for the devs too.
> Because IT IS a really pretty and honestly amazing game.
> But it absolutely is not made for last gen PS4 and Xbox consoles. There is only so much they can fix performance wise.
> 
> ...


Hoping they bounce back and it becomes the game we thought it could be.

I wonder if there is something fundamentally flawed that can't be fixed, or if it is just a case of fixing a few bugs and re-releasing. 

I fear it is the former. What a shame for everyone. Still, fingers crossed!


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 18, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> ... my CD RED Stock tanked hard today.



They went on sale? Are you gonna buy more? Probably a good idea to do it before they announce The Witcher 4. :D

this is not financial advice


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 18, 2020)

I like music said:


> Hoping they bounce back and it becomes the game we thought it could be.
> 
> I wonder if there is something fundamentally flawed that can't be fixed, or if it is just a case of fixing a few bugs and re-releasing.
> 
> I fear it is the former. What a shame for everyone. Still, fingers crossed!



I fear so too. The thing that Sony pulled the game and is offering refunds despite the amount played indicates this as well.

I feel bad for CDPR as well. They’ve seemed like very grounded game devs, but one has to remember this is only their fourth major game and a new genre altogether.


----------



## I like music (Dec 18, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> They went on sale? Are you gonna buy more? Probably a good idea to do it before they announce The Witcher 4. :D
> 
> this is not financial advice





gtrwll said:


> I fear so too. The thing that Sony pulled the game and is offering refunds despite the amount played indicates this as well.
> 
> I feel bad for CDPR as well. They’ve seemed like very grounded game devs, but one has to remember this is only their fourth major game and a new genre altogether.


Sounds like a good developer. I hope it all works out for everyone, especially customers. 
This reminds me, I have The Witcher 3 in an unopened case. I'll bust it out and see what the fuss is about with that one!


----------



## shponglefan (Dec 18, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> Yeah I’ve heard the same, on a powerful PC it’s (mostly?) really good.



There are a lot of people slamming it for other things, primarily the lack of AI and NPC behaviors.

It's sounding like a game that needed another year in the oven to live up to expectations.


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 18, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> There are a lot of people slamming it for other things, primarily the lack of AI and NPC behaviors.
> 
> It's sounding like a game that needed another year in the oven to live up to expectations.



Oh. That does sound bad. Something that QC should have picked up even with basic testing.


----------



## shponglefan (Dec 18, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> Oh. That does sound bad. Something that QC should have picked up even with basic testing.



It doesn't sound like these are bugs per se. Just very basic implementations of things like NPC actions.

I think a lot of people expected this game to be a next-level GTA. That it isn't is what is causing so much disappointment.


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 18, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> It doesn't sound like these are bugs per se. Just very basic implementations of things like NPC actions.
> 
> I think a lot of people expected this game to be a next-level GTA. That it isn't is what is causing so much disappointment.



Yes, I meant that the game probably went through extensive playtesting, and I’m amazed that they didn’t pick those up. Or for some reason they didn’t gather data on those.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 18, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> Yes, I meant that the game probably went through extensive playtesting, and I’m amazed that they didn’t pick those up. Or for some reason they didn’t gather data on those.



You are implying every problem that gets caught by testers gets fixed... that is not the case. It would be nice, but it's just not a realistic expectation.


----------



## ghobii (Dec 18, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> It doesn't sound like these are bugs per se. Just very basic implementations of things like NPC actions.
> 
> I think a lot of people expected this game to be a next-level GTA. That it isn't is what is causing so much disappointment.


The problem is CD Project Red gained this Godly reputation making it seem they could do everything perfect. In reality the Witcher's strengths were in it's world building, the characters and the story. Both the AI and the combat was very standard and kind of janky at times. To me they've delivered something similar again with Cyberpunk.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 18, 2020)

ghobii said:


> The problem is CD Project Red gained this Godly reputation making it seem they could do everything perfect. In reality the Witcher's strengths were in it's world building, the characters and the story.



I wonder how much of that was just transferred from the books. And iirc on launch Witcher 3 was pretty buggy as well. Never played it myself though. 

I might finally try Consortium as my Christmas game this year. I always wanted to try that and I noticed by accident that I already own it on GOG from some giveaway from 4 years ago. Weirdly it's gotten hard to keep track of what games you own accross the various stores and plattforms.


----------



## method1 (Dec 18, 2020)

People like to complain, CDPR's next game should be ARMCHAIRCRITIC 2077 

There's so much effort and detail that's been put into this thing, it's a hell of an achievement imo.
I'm playing it on base ps4, all the graphic options turned off, and it's been totally playable.


----------



## gtrwll (Dec 18, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> You are implying every problem that gets caught by testers gets fixed... that is not the case. It would be nice, but it's just not a realistic expectation.



No, I’m not. And I’m well aware about that. Of course some things have to be left as is due to time constraints, budget, or whatever. But if problems of this magnitude should arise when testing, they should IMO be fixed.

But nevertheless, I haven’t played the game and I’ve not experienced it myself. I’m just reflecting others, who may be disappointed because it just couldn’t live up to the enormous hype, which was probably a vain effort to begin with.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 18, 2020)

method1 said:


> There's so much effort and detail that's been put into this thing, it's a hell of an achievement imo.



No one's doubting it's a hell of an achievement (The kind of bugs that would prompt them to remove the item from sale, notwithstanding) . But they over-promised and under-delivered .

*Edited*: for brevity


----------



## method1 (Dec 18, 2020)

el-bo said:


> No one's doubting it's a hell of an achievement (The kind of bugs that would prompt them to remove the item from sale, notwithstanding) . But they over-promised and under-delivered on promises they made. They were the one's that prepared everyone to expect the things it turned out they could't or weren't prepared to deliver. Given that, not sure it's fair to pay customer who've forked out a hefty amount of cash.
> 
> If you're happy with it, that's all good



The main problem with this game is that it doesn't have legato...


----------



## el-bo (Dec 18, 2020)

method1 said:


> The main problem with this game is that it doesn't have legato...



They'd probably have got away with that one, but they said it would be there...so


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 18, 2020)

method1 said:


> The main problem with this game is that it doesn't have legato...


A lot of dicks though. There's something it has in common with the legato threads.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 21, 2020)

How are you guys liking the soundtrack? I've just started listening to it on youtube and I have mixed feelings so far.


I've seen an interesting review on the game that rated it much more positively than I expected from that specific reviewer: 





Also, for the next ~23 hours you can get Alien Isolation for free in the Epic Games Store. Although it seems like the store is overloaded right now. 
If I'm not mistaken @christianhenson worked on the Soundtrack of that game!


----------



## rnieto (Dec 21, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> You are implying every problem that gets caught by testers gets fixed... that is not the case. It would be nice, but it's just not a realistic expectation.



That is 100% correct. There are people on AAA game dev teams called "Closers". Their job, as their name implies, is to close the game. That means that they wield the ultimate control over which bugs get fixed during the last few weeks of development.

A few times I had to literally _beg_ a Closer to allow me to fix audio bugs that I considered crucial for shipping the game, only to be told "no, that's not important". And, short of setting yourself on fire in front of the building in protest, there's nothing you can do about that.


----------



## rnieto (Dec 21, 2020)

The ugly truth is that most AAA games are held together with duct tape, chewing gum and prayers. 

In the case of Cyberpunk, the duct tape that held together the console versions gave out, most likely because management insisted on rolling it out before it was at least a presentable experience for console owners. 

My thoughts go out to the artists, programmers, sound designers, animators and the rest of the floor team, as they no doubt watched helpless and in horror as the game was launched and they braced themselves for the reviews.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 21, 2020)

rnieto said:


> That is 100% correct. There are people on AAA game dev teams called "Closers". Their job, as their name implies, is to close the game. That means that they wield the ultimate control over which bugs get fixed during the last few weeks of development.
> 
> A few times I had to literally _beg_ a Closer to allow me to fix audio bugs that I considered crucial for shipping the game, only to be told "no, that's not important". And, short of setting yourself on fire in front of the building in protest, there's nothing you can do about that.



Thanks for that inside info! I wasn't aware of that specific role, I just knew it's a problem that happens. But man, I wouldn't want to be a closer on a project like Cyberpunk x]. 

Sorry to hear you've had so many bad experiences with them. It must be _extremely _frustrating!



rnieto said:


> My thoughts go out to the artists, programmers, sound designers, animators and the rest of the floor team, as they no doubt watched helpless and in horror as the game was launched and they braced themselves for the reviews.



Yeah, mine too. The game was so long in development, it must be soul-crushing to work so hard on it for many years and then let go of it in this state and read the feedback online. And now they're probably still crunching, to catch up with fixing all the issues.

Props to whoever asked this question at a company meeting:



> Another developer asked whether CD Projekt’s directors felt it was hypocritical to make a game about corporate exploitation while expecting that their employees work overtime. The response was vague and noncommital.



From what I've heard (even long before Cyberpunk), it's not a company I'd want to work at.


----------



## ghobii (Dec 21, 2020)

I find it pretty ridiculous that the shareholders are considering a lawsuit, when it was most likely the pressure from them that the game was released too soon. Damn corpos!


----------



## rnieto (Dec 21, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Props to whoever asked this question at a company meeting:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Usually, the main concept for the game doesn't come from the 'exploiters', it comes from the 'exploitees'. The actual creative people want to make a social statement. Management just wants it to sell a gazillion copies, period. 

I'm not saying that's what happened at CDPR, but I've seen it happen before at other companies, so it stands to reason it could be a plausible explanation.


----------



## Karl Feuerstake (Jan 3, 2021)

InLight-Tone said:


> “I think that I cannot preserve my health and spirits, unless I spend four hours a day at least—and it is commonly more than that—sauntering through the woods and over the hills and fields, absolutely free from all worldly engagements. You may safely say, A penny for your thoughts, or a thousand pounds. When sometimes I am reminded that the mechanics and shopkeepers stay in their shops not only all the forenoon, but all the afternoon too, sitting with crossed legs, so many of them—as if the legs were made to sit upon, and not to stand or walk upon—I think that they deserve some credit for not having all committed suicide long ago.”
> Henry David Thoreau, Walking


You write and play music, do you not? You most likely sit to do that, rather than walk around - do you not?

So perhaps leave others to play their games, and if they do it to the point their bodies suffer, they will know it, and hopefully listen in return. You are right that there is a certain balance to life that is required, but let me ask you this: do you go around to the homeless and chastise them for sitting and begging on the streets? If not, why then would you chastise people for enjoying video-games? Surely many people who play games still have jobs and lives.


----------



## InLight-Tone (Jan 3, 2021)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> You write and play music, do you not? You most likely sit to do that, rather than walk around - do you not?
> 
> So perhaps leave others to play their games, and if they do it to the point their bodies suffer, they will know it, and hopefully listen in return. You are right that there is a certain balance to life that is required, but let me ask you this: do you go around to the homeless and chastise them for sitting and begging on the streets? If not, why then would you chastise people for enjoying video-games? Surely many people who play games still have jobs and lives.


Umm, this is a crowd that sits at the computer all day to compose music and work on their rig, in my mind the last thing one would want to do is to sit some more and loose themselves in an ARTIFICIAL world. Seems WE need to move more not less. But ya, it's like eBikes it gives you the illusion that you're exerting yourself and doing something but at least with eBikes you're OUTSIDE in REALITY!...
(Sorry, I'm the resident NATURE/Hippy composer)...


----------



## Trash Panda (Jan 3, 2021)

InLight-Tone said:


> Umm, this is a crowd that sits at the computer all day to compose music and work on their rig, in my mind the last thing one would want to do is to sit some more and loose themselves in an ARTIFICIAL world. Seems WE need to move more not less. But ya, it's like eBikes it gives you the illusion that you're exerting yourself and doing something but at least with eBikes you're OUTSIDE in REALITY!...
> (Sorry, I'm the resident NATURE/Hippy composer)...


In your mind. No one here agrees with your unwelcome opinion. Go away.


----------



## InLight-Tone (Jan 3, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> In your mind. No one here agrees with your unwelcome opinion. Go away.


I KNOW it's not going to be welcome, but it's my right to express it regardless. It's my job man...


----------



## visiblenoise (Jan 3, 2021)

I'll say it - nature is overrated.


----------



## Trash Panda (Jan 3, 2021)

InLight-Tone said:


> I KNOW it's not going to be welcome, but it's my right to express it regardless. It's my job man...


You’ve shared your insipid, cliche opinion. Now go away.


----------



## MGdepp (Jan 3, 2021)

InLight-Tone said:


> I KNOW it's not going to be welcome, but it's my right to express it regardless. It's my job man...


Forget it ... there is no point in telling kids they should not play video games, unless they're your own. And some people never reach adulthood. They will keep doing the same stupid stuff until they sit in a wheel chair and then complain why nobody warned them this might be the consequence ...

Joining a party with alcoholics and telling them they should quit drinking will only draw their hate upon you.

What is your job? 😊


----------



## el-bo (Jan 3, 2021)

InLight-Tone said:


> Umm, this is a crowd that sits at the computer all day to compose music and work on their rig, in my mind the last thing one would want to do is to sit some more and loose themselves in an ARTIFICIAL world. Seems WE need to move more not less. But ya, it's like eBikes it gives you the illusion that you're exerting yourself and doing something but at least with eBikes you're OUTSIDE in REALITY!...
> (Sorry, I'm the resident NATURE/Hippy composer)...


You never sit down to watch a movie or a tv show? I often do. I also sit to make music...and to enjoy a bit of gaming. None of that stops me walking around my city for hours a day (Although obligatory mask-wearing has put somewhat of a dampener on that). Enjoying gaming and being active are not mutually exclusive.


----------



## el-bo (Jan 3, 2021)

MGdepp said:


> Forget it ... there is no point in telling kids they should not play video games, unless they're your own. And some people never reach adulthood. They will keep doing the same stupid stuff until they sit in a wheel chair and then complain why nobody warned them this might be the consequence ...
> 
> Joining a party with alcoholics and telling them they should put drinking will only draw their hate upon you.
> 
> What is your job? 😊


Someone else who doesn't sit and watch movies or tv shows? Fair play, I guess.


----------



## Karl Feuerstake (Jan 3, 2021)

InLight-Tone said:


> Umm, this is a crowd that sits at the computer all day to compose music and work on their rig, in my mind the last thing one would want to do is to sit some more and loose themselves in an ARTIFICIAL world. Seems WE need to move more not less. But ya, it's like eBikes it gives you the illusion that you're exerting yourself and doing something but at least with eBikes you're OUTSIDE in REALITY!...
> (Sorry, I'm the resident NATURE/Hippy composer)...


I can understand it if your attitude is you'd just like to help people be more active, but I think you may have come across with the wrong tone initially as to how to approach such a conversation. People can choose how much time they spend on one or the other. Maybe they devote more time to composition and only game for an hour a day? Or maybe they only compose for that one hour and play games for more? Whatever it is, that's their life.

If all you'd like to do is provide some advice regarding healthier living, then start with talking about that!  (There are many ways to communicate; some are more effective at helping people, others more effective at provoking arguments.) If you're really a "hippy", maybe you'd be open to just expressing the positives to your advice. As an example, instead of opening a conversation with "you are wasting your time indulging in the apparition of violence", you could have said something like "I've observed a lot of people wasting a lot of their time on violent video-games; I personally find a better stress relief for myself to be a lot of exercise and refrainment from such violent imagery." Now that sounds totally different! And I would expect most responses to such a conversation may then have been things like "me too! I get outdoors a lot but I actually play non-violent video-games as well!" or "I get exercise, but I do enjoy violent games, they just excite me" - and I'd bet even some of the people who aren't exercising or taking good care of themselves would read such a post and think "hmm, maybe I should consider becoming more active because that seems to be helping this guy/these people out."

Hopefully some of that will make sense. If you're sincere and what you really want to do is help people, there is a better way to engage them and communicate.


----------



## AdamKmusic (Jan 3, 2021)

So finished the main storyline yesterday after about 55hrs or so. Overall I really enjoyed it and it’s a really great game...if you stick to the main mission & side quests, it all falls apart outside of that! But most are aware of its faults so I don’t need to say much else. My only other complaint is how short the actual main quest is, clearly there was a lot of story content cut as the pacing is a bit off. I’m excited for the future expansions but will definitely wait before buying day one again


----------



## shponglefan (Jan 4, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Enjoying gaming and being active are not mutually exclusive.


This is why virtual reality gaming is so awesome. You get to be active *and* play video games at the same time. It's win-win!


----------



## el-bo (Jan 4, 2021)

shponglefan said:


> This is why virtual reality gaming is so awesome. You get to be active *and* play video games at the same time. It's win-win!


Indeed


----------



## el-bo (Jan 22, 2021)

Oh My!


----------

