# Logic Pro X to Cubase - Questions



## wayne_rowley (May 3, 2020)

Hi there,

I currently use Logic Pro X on my 2018 Mac mini with a UAD Arrow. I've used Logic for around 5 years, since I got back into the hobby, though before buying it I did experiment briefly with Cubase AI (version 7 at the time). I like Logic, although it does have it's bugs and quirks, and I know it fairly well after 5 year, though would by no means consider myself an 'expert' or 'power user'.

A few weeks ago I upgraded my Mini, running 10.14.6 to Security patch 2020-002. The upgrade was not good. I was left with a blank screen after the upgrade (which I managed to fix through an SMC reset) and now I get a kernel panic error message every time I boot from cold that is T2 related. This is not a unique situation - a number of users have suffered. My machine is usable at the moment, but the errors are annoying. Last year we also had the T2 USB issue. I am starting to have serious doubts about where Apple are going particularly with the Mac product line and Mac OS. They are turning them from computers to consumer commodities, and the inclusion of the T2 makes it impossible to fix some issues without going back to Apple (and/or taking out AppleCare). This combined with the poor quality of recent OSs and updates, is making me question my use of this platform on the long term.

I'm not making any rash decisions to switch to PC, but I am thinking it might be prudent to switch to a DAW that I can use on either platform, and so I am looking again at Cubase. I've resurrected my copy of Cubase AI to play with (now 10.5) and I'm experimenting to see if I like it. So far, I do.

I'm not looking for a 'which is better' type thread, but I do have some questions that people who have made the switch might be able to help with.

- How quickly/easily was it to learn Cubase coming from Logic? Was it a struggle, or was it a natural transition? What resources did you use to help (if any)?

- What is the best way of migrating work from Logic to Cubase? This is what makes me reluctant - having to migrate my work and projects. Is export to Midi and Import that the best way? 

- How would you rate the stock Cubase Pro effects plug-ins (not instruments) compared to those in Logic? The ones in Logic are pretty good, and I have no 3rd party ones except the UAD ones I got bundled with the Arrow.

- Has anyone regretted moving Logic to Cubase - if so why?

Many thanks in advance!

Wayne


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## Jaap (May 3, 2020)

I have never used Logic so cant comment on that but Cubase Pro has also a full functioning 30 day trial which might be usefull. Then you can try the full program to see if it fits. Good luck!


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## Akarin (May 3, 2020)

I switched from Logic to Cubase about two years ago for similar reasons. Being locked into a hardware ecosystem didn't sit really well with me. Although, I'm still on Mac today. 

Honestly, I don't feel like I'll be needing to look at another DAW. There are just too many things that don't exist in Logic. The Chord Track, the insane routing capabilities and stuff that didn't exist two years ago that I became really proficient with like Expression Maps, disabling of tracks and a huge amount of VST tracks (my main template has a little over 5k tracks while the limit in Logic today is 1k).

I didn't transfer my ongoing projects, though. I finished the ones that I started in Logic using Logic but exported the individual tracks to audio which I then mixed in Cubase. 

The stock plugins are on par between both DAWs. The algo and convo reverbs from Cubase are quite good and so are the EQs and compressor.


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## thomasjdev (May 3, 2020)

I'm just a hobbyist so take this with a grain of salt.

One of the things that has frustrated me with Cubase is it's performance and what seems of lack of optimization on the Mac compared to its PC counterpart. It bothered me more because I'm on a MacbookPro, and a rather small project seemed to get my fans audibly loud. From that I added VEPro 7 to run on my single computer, but at the time there was some performance issues with VEP also (it was just released) which didn't really help so I moved back to Logic

In Logic, for the most part it seems to be rather optimized to run on any of the available hardware out there and with the latest updates they did to disable and unload plugins/memory it's pretty great

A couple weeks ago I decided to dip my toe in the water with some of the VSL Synchron-SE libraries and with that added back the latest VEPro to my workflow and the problems I had early on seem to be cleared up and it's been really nice to use and the integration of VSL's products works well for me.

I love the performance from Logic, but I really don't like it's midi editing and some other quirks like recording midi out from a plugin (i.e reason rack) which seemed only possible by setting up the IAC bus or getting into the Environment window which looks rather intimidating at first glance.

So I'm back to using Cubase now + VE Pro and loving it.
I think VSL made it possible to try VE Pro as well so might be something you take a look too.


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## jonathanwright (May 3, 2020)

*- How quickly/easily was it to learn Cubase coming from Logic? Was it a struggle, or was it a natural transition? What resources did you use to help (if any)?*

It was reasonably easy to pick up. I spent a weekend going through a Cubase MacProVideo course, which got me up and running very quickly. Personally I find video tutorials far faster than any other method, as you can see what is being done on screen.

*- What is the best way of migrating work from Logic to Cubase? This is what makes me reluctant - having to migrate my work and projects. Is export to Midi and Import that the best way?*

AFAIK, MIDI export/import is the only way to go. It's pretty seamless as a process though. Just time consuming with large projects.

*- How would you rate the stock Cubase Pro effects plug-ins (not instruments) compared to those in Logic? The ones in Logic are pretty good, and I have no 3rd party ones except the UAD ones I got bundled with the Arrow.*

I'd say Logic is ahead when it comes to stock effects plugins. I've never really taken to Cubase's own, and tend to use third party plugins. I do use the EQ built in to the mixer though. It's worth checking out the channel strip in Cubase though. I'm sure most of the plugins will do the job.

*- Has anyone regretted moving Logic to Cubase - if so why?*

It comes and goes in waves! I use both Cubase and Logical regularly. Cubase has the edge when it comes to features for composers, but Logic is catching up very quickly with each update, and is generally rock solid in stability and performance on a Mac. There is certainly a lot less between the two DAW's than there used to be.

One quick tip, set yourself up a common key command set between the two DAW's. It'll help you learn so much faster if you have the same keystroke for the same function in each.


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## greggybud (May 3, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> - How would you rate the stock Cubase Pro effects plug-ins (not instruments) compared to those in Logic? The ones in Logic are pretty good, and I have no 3rd party ones except the UAD ones I got bundled with the Arrow.


For stock Cubase effects:





Cubase 9 Audio Effects Review


The Studio One Effects Review and Studio One Instruments Review appear to have been one of the more popular posts on my blog according to analytics. In a clo...




www.admiralbumblebee.com




My personal take is that it depends on the stock Cubase effect. Some are newer than others. To group them all together and rate them...I wouldn't be able to give a reply. I use ProQ3, but also the built-in EQ because you don't always need ProQ3 for basic tasks. Frequency IMO is very good.

Stuff you probably don't want to read, but maybe at a later time:






The DAW Feature Chart


Things that you want which you can't find anywhere else




www.admiralbumblebee.com





Robert loves this stuff. And his own biases IMO are kept to a relative minimum.


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## wayne_rowley (May 3, 2020)

Thanks for the replies - really helpful!


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 3, 2020)

What are the bugs and quirks you encountered?


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## wayne_rowley (May 3, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> What are the bugs and quirks you encountered?



Currently, the main annoyance is that Logic Pro X will skip some sustain events recorded for piano parts of playback. They are definitely recorded and present, plus it skips different events on each playback!

Wayne


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## IFM (May 3, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> Currently, the main annoyance is that Logic Pro X will skip some sustain events recorded for piano parts of playback. They are definitely recorded and present, plus it skips different events on each playback!
> 
> Wayne


As a long time LPX and Cubase user I can tell you that is definitely not a common thing in LPX, in fact fist I personally have read someone with that issue. 

LPX has better background processing than Cubase does but in the end they both can do exactly the same thing. As mentioned above you should do the 30 day trial and do a project from start to finish and see how you liked it.


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## Vik (May 3, 2020)

My plan was to learn Cubase and Dorico a few years ago, and while there's a lot of good things to be said about both DAWs, I actually regret having spent money and time trying to do that. Dorico was far from as ready to be useful as I hoped it to be (this has improved now, of course), and while Steinberg in general have put more focus on the kind of features I have been and still am missing in Logic (and I see few signs of Logic ever gong back to be a composition and notation oriented DAW), I found a lot more "why have they implemented this is such a non-obvious or cumbersome way?" moments in Cubase than I expected. 

Part of my frustration with Cubase was of course that I had used Logic forever, and knew it rather well, and that I was missing quite a few things from Logic, eg. that pretty much everthing is doable both with key commands, menus and contextual menus, a brilliantly implemented key command window, and lots of help and quick-help features.

So I can't give and advice, I'm afraid, other than searching for threads containing both 'Cubase' and 'Logic' in the thread title on this forum (there are dozens of them) – and see what you find that's relevant to you.

Even if Logic now has both expression maps (articulation sets, with loads of maps available from babylonwaves.com) and disable track, and also frees up Kontakt memory when you freeze a track, it took a long time before they implemented that, and by the time they implement other stuff I miss, I'm sure I'll need to invest a lot of cash in a new Mac which runs a newer OS than my aging 12-core can do. Good luck!


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## kenose (May 3, 2020)

I recently did a hard switch to Cubase for all new projects after I encountered this bug: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/app...letely-ignored-apple-logic-x-programmers.html

Try the examples from the thread and see for yourself— I have no idea how it has not been fixed, as it was reported to Apple years ago. I’m unsure how anyone is doing complex production with lots of precise automation/side-chaining/routing.

Ultimately this bug cost me a day of time rebuilding a session, not fun when deadlines are in play... 

Cubase has it’s quirks, it is definitely not as well optimized compared to Logic. On my machine (6 core trashcan) the performance has been adequate, but when I did some max VI track tests Logic does come out slightly ahead. It hasn’t impacted my work as of yet, but if your workflow is pushing your system to the max in Logic, it could be a problem. 

Cubase (I’m on 10.0.06) has been rock solid in all other categories, and I’m not worried about tip-toeing around broken delay compensation. It feels great. The workflow is pretty easy to adapt to coming from Logic, I don’t feel like I’m missing much, if anything. I started learning it a few years ago for the same reason as a few others here, I wanted to give myself the flexibility to be platform independent in the future. I’m not sure I’ll go over to PC, I do like macOS, but it’s nice that the option exists.


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## babylonwaves (May 3, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> Currently, the main annoyance is that Logic Pro X will skip some sustain events recorded for piano parts of playback.



can you clarify what you mean with sustain events? if you mean CC64 evens, I'm pretty sure that you should look at the instrument which plays back the notes instead of logic.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 3, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> Currently, the main annoyance is that Logic Pro X will skip some sustain events recorded for piano parts of playback. They are definitely recorded and present, plus it skips different events on each playback!
> 
> Wayne



As IFM says, that's not a normal Logic bug. I wonder what's going on.

There's nothing wrong with switching to Cubase if you want to, but hopefully it's not for the reasons you mentioned. For one, missing CC64s is not a standard Logic bug. Something is going on that's either not caused by Logic or is caused by a corrupted file.

Or it's not impossible that you've uncovered a bug... in which case you'd want to report it (there's a menu option in Logic), and remember that there's no such thing as a complicated piece of software that doesn't have any bugs. Logic is owned by Apple, a big company, but those guys are very serious about making it as good as possible. I know them - they're not slackers and they're not stupid people.

The other thing, switching to another DAW because you're worried about future hardware, seems like shaking intentionally because you're afraid you might get Parkinson's when you're old.


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## jcrosby (May 3, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I currently use Logic Pro X on my 2018 Mac mini with a UAD Arrow. I've used Logic for around 5 years, since I got back into the hobby, though before buying it I did experiment briefly with Cubase AI (version 7 at the time). I like Logic, although it does have it's bugs and quirks, and I know it fairly well after 5 year, though would by no means consider myself an 'expert' or 'power user'.
> 
> ...


Is it possible that some notes extend past the beginning of the next same note? Logic _can_ drop notes if you don't clean up overlaps on the same note.


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## wayne_rowley (May 4, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> Is it possible that some notes extend past the beginning of the next same note? Logic _can_ drop notes if you don't clean up overlaps on the same note.



No, it’s not that. It doesn‘t error consistently, I.e. When playing back I hear the drop in sustain at different places. It also does‘t do it on bounce.

Currently the VI is Spitfire Felt Piano, but I’ve also had this with Kontakt in the past.

Wayne


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## wayne_rowley (May 4, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The other thing, switching to another DAW because you're worried about future hardware, seems like shaking intentionally because you're afraid you might get Parkinson's when you're old.



It’s not future hardware - it’s current hardware and software that is the issue, combined with Apple’s vector/direction which could make it even worse in the future.

Wayne


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## Mishabou (May 4, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> It’s not future hardware - it’s current hardware and software that is the issue, combined with Apple’s vector/direction which could make it even worse in the future.
> 
> Wayne



We have several Mac with T2 chip (Mini and MBP) that went through the security update you mentioned without issues. All computers are running PT, LPX and CB.

I would look for a solution/workaround as switching DAW based on this bug and speculation of Apple's future direction might be a bit premature.


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## wayne_rowley (May 4, 2020)

Mishabou said:


> We have several Mac with T2 chip (Mini and MBP) that went through the security update you mentioned without issues. All computers are running PT, LPX and CB.
> 
> I would look for a solution/workaround as switching DAW based on this bug and speculation of Apple's future direction might be a bit premature.



I am not making any hasty decision on this, just exploring the option at the moment, as I said initially. If you look on the Macrumors forums you will see there, although it’s not every user, there are a significant number who have have issues with this update. It feels like a lottery.

Wayne


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## SupremeFist (May 4, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> No, it’s not that. It doesn‘t error consistently, I.e. When playing back I hear the drop in sustain at different places. It also does‘t do it on bounce.
> 
> Currently the VI is Spitfire Felt Piano, but I’ve also had this with Kontakt in the past.
> 
> Wayne


I get this with various piano VIs and I think it's related to high CPU load on my system at leasr. it's more likely to happen if I have the piano track selected, or am tinkering with automation during playback etc. Never happens on bounces so for me it's just a minor annoyance.


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## IFM (May 4, 2020)

Akarin said:


> I switched from Logic to Cubase about two years ago for similar reasons. Being locked into a hardware ecosystem didn't sit really well with me. Although, I'm still on Mac today.
> 
> Honestly, I don't feel like I'll be needing to look at another DAW. There are just too many things that don't exist in Logic. The Chord Track, the insane routing capabilities and stuff that didn't exist two years ago that I became really proficient with like Expression Maps, disabling of tracks and a huge amount of VST tracks (my main template has a little over 5k tracks while the limit in Logic today is 1k).
> 
> ...


I tried your test and both tracks were perfectly in sync. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## wayne_rowley (May 7, 2020)

Thanks for all the advice on this. I’ve decided to stay with Logic for now. My experimentation with Cubase has shown me that I could switch fairly easily if I needed to, but I’ll keep on with Logic for now in the hope that Apple can sort this update mess.

Wayne


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## IFM (May 7, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> Thanks for all the advice on this. I’ve decided to stay with Logic for now. My experimentation with Cubase has shown me that I could switch fairly easily if I needed to, but I’ll keep on with Logic for now in the hope that Apple can sort this update mess.
> 
> Wayne


If you would like to PM me your exact setup I don't mind trying to help. Since this is very abnormal behavior you either have a hardware issue or uncovered a unique set of circumstances that will recreate this.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (May 7, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I currently use Logic Pro X on my 2018 Mac mini with a UAD Arrow. I've used Logic for around 5 years, since I got back into the hobby, though before buying it I did experiment briefly with Cubase AI (version 7 at the time). I like Logic, although it does have it's bugs and quirks, and I know it fairly well after 5 year, though would by no means consider myself an 'expert' or 'power user'.
> 
> ...


I certainly feel your pain with the Security Update issue, got it here myself and I know two ports on my 2018 Mac Mini have not behaved the same since :(

Not bad for a machine that cost me just shy of 2K
I have both Logic and Cubase Pro 10.5 myself, but right now I have a bug with VE Pro that causes weird graphical isues on the server instance plugin... So I am still using Logic more right now

Some people have stated that using Apple Configurator with another mac, can resolve the firmware problem from the T2. I will see if I can find the thread again, on reddit somewhere


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