# How's Overture now?



## pinki (Aug 9, 2019)

So the last time Overture was discussed people were adamant it was too buggy and crashed too much. That was the end of 2018. Anyone care to say how they are finding it now? 
I really want this hybrid notation/daw software to be a success and I had Overture 4 back in the day, which was excellent. 
So how is Overture 5 now? (especially on Mac)


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## Quasar (Aug 9, 2019)

I tried the demo and have been interested in this too. A quick glance at the website shows that it hasn't been updated since 12/24/18.


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## pinki (Aug 10, 2019)

Interesting. So when in a previous thread in January the developer said:

_“I fix more issues than the other big guys and release updates more often. Sometimes a release may go out earlier than it should and I may miss something, but it gets fixed quickly. My users have reassured me this is a much better process than waiting a year to”_

it was not so accurate, unless Overture is now very stable of course and there has been no further issues! Lets hope so. Any users?

EDIT: Actually just saw it was updated in June:


Overture 5.6.0-1 (6-29-2019) - Community


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## Tacet (Aug 11, 2019)

If you are after recent user feedback, this thread in the SS forum is a good place to start.

Personally I love the workflow in OV5, it really is an almost perfect blend between a notation software and a DAW.

Is it 100% as good for engraving as Sibelius/Finale/Dorico?
Most users seem to think the answer is "not yet".

Is it 100% as flexible for production/mixing as the main DAWs?
Ditto.

But I don't think you'll find a better hybrid notation/daw software around at the moment.
Yes, there are still some stability and performance issues, as it emerges clearly from the poll I linked.

Ultimately, it depends on your requirements.
Generally speaking, here at VI-C OV5 doesn't get much love, particularly among the professionals.
That was evident in my thread from last year.
But most peole do like the idea of using one integrated software instead of two, see here.


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## pinki (Aug 11, 2019)

Hey thanks, really useful. I've been playing with the demo and I have to say there are some wonderful ideas and implementations. Like the score-roll as opposed to the piano-roll. I mean that's just better in my brain. And the whole linear view is just perfect. 
And a great GUI.
I also found out there is now auto-save which, though only a partial solution solution to the crashing, it helps take the sting out. (I have only had one crash today).

It really is a very splendid program and I don't understand why it get's little love here. Well there is one reason. The dev is very poor at PR indeed and shouldn't come on the forums- but hey Spitfire were bad at that before they threw their toys out of the pram and left, so it's not easy doing both.


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## Tacet (Aug 11, 2019)

pinki said:


> Hey thanks, really useful. I've been playing with the demo and I have to say there are some wonderful ideas and implementations. Like the score-roll as opposed to the piano-roll. I mean that's just better in my brain. And the whole linear view is just perfect.
> And a great GUI.
> I also found out there is now auto-save which, though only a partial solution solution to the crashing, it helps take the sting out. (I have only had one crash today).
> 
> It really is a very splendid program and I don't understand why it get's little love here. Well there is one reason. The dev is very poor at PR indeed and shouldn't come on the forums- but hey Spitfire were bad at that before they threw their toys out of the pram and left, so it's not easy doing both.


Go ahead and get it, you know you want to... 😜

And the crossgrade price is very reasonable indeed... 👍


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## pinki (Aug 11, 2019)

Ha I just may, but I always need to be careful with that initial rush..it can lead to trouble 
I'm going to live with the (very helpful) demo for a few days yet and read the manual.


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## pinki (Aug 18, 2019)

Wow.. I've spent some time on the Overture forum. Not a pleasant place to hang out. That guy Don is like the rudest, most bad tempered mean-spirited guy. He has tantrums online with his users! How to lose sales.


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## Tacet (Aug 18, 2019)

@pinki, so are you saying that you are not going to get OV5 because of Don's attitude over at the SS forum, despite the fact that you clearly love the software?
If so, that is entirely your prerogative and none of my business, granted.

I just feel that I have to point out that on the one occasion that I spoke to Don, he came across as a genuinely friendly and helpful person, who went out of his way to help me resolve an issue (full details in my previous thread).

Although OV5 doesn't get much love here at VI-C, there are a few posters who seem to have used the software for a long time and are very enthusiastic about it (@wcreed51, @Craig Duke and others).
Perhaps they would like to jump in and have a say here?

Personally, so far I have managed to find all the info I needed in the OV5 Quick Help, and on a couple of occasions by using the search function over at the SS forum.
I didn't even need to create a login for that forum in order to ask for help.
Admittedly, I've only been using OV5 for less than a year, and only for projects with a relatively small number of tracks.
Other posters have pointed out that large orchestral projects can be a challenge with OV5, and in all honesty I cannot comment on that at this stage.
And yes, OV5 still has a few bugs and stability issues - like all notations programs and DAWs out there.

But I can tell you this: if like myself you find it easier to compose pieces where counterpoint and voice leading play a big role (like a string quartet or SATB choir for instance) in a notation program as opposed to a DAW, using the VSTs of your choice for playback, then you'll find that OV5 does the job phenomenally well.
And you can edit tempo changes, CCs and velocities just like you would in a DAW.

Ultimately, it's your decision of course - this is just my two cents.


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## pinki (Aug 18, 2019)

Thanks Tacet. You are right of course to point out that making a decision this way is not the best way and I am glad to hear your view.


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## Sean J (Jan 26, 2020)

Don is amazing guy. I've met him in person.

I was tactless with him about Overture the first time I talked to him. I thought he was too. We patched it up easily. A phone call later we talked productively. Then I saw that he was incredibly intelligent. He gets composer-oriented features better than any other single developer in the industry. Maybe he doesn't react well to some types of commentary. Then again, neither do I.

I do like Dorico, but consider some of these points...

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1 - Overture maps playback 10,000x easier than Dorico. I even measured it in clicks once. It's ridiculous. Overture wins this easily. Dorico has better template features. Apples/Oranges.

2 - Dorico's new Dynamics lane on the Play Tab... Overture had this years before Dorico.

3 - Edit CC independently for divisi voices on one staff... again, years before Dorico.

4 - Dorico crashes 70% as often, but it DOES crash. It's Steinberg. I'm not surprised.

5 - *Overture doesn't use eLicensers.* Yeah, that's not significant at all... Cough cough.

6 - In 10 years, Steinberg hasn't improved Expression Maps once. Don has to his equiv.

7 - Both hide endless features under multiple panels/menus/dialogs. Neither are minimal.

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Overture is his baby. Don't beat it up. Help it grow.

Reliability, ease of use, and curb appeal (minimalist UI) could all help him. But that's like telling a guy, "Dude, all you need is to climb these mountains. Just do that and you're set!" I'd love to see a major player invest in him. A team of devs can climb mountains faster. So I'm not saying everyone is beating it up. I'm just saying that Don cares a lot about Overture. It's worth remembering that when talking to him. He really is an awesome guy.

-Sean


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## Thundercat (Jan 26, 2020)

scoredfilms said:


> Don is amazing guy. I've met him in person.
> 
> I was tactless with him about Overture the first time I talked to him. I thought he was too. We patched it up easily. A phone call later we talked productively. Then I saw that he was incredibly intelligent. He gets composer-oriented features better than any other single developer in the industry. Maybe he doesn't react well to some types of commentary. Then again, neither do I.
> 
> ...


Probably the best end game to this kind of thing would be if a major player like Dorico bought him out, and incorporated his amazing ideas into thier software. That might sound morbid but in all reality he's a one man band; better to hand off the best he has to offer and have it live on. It takes a village...

I'm going to check out Overture so thanks to everyone in this thread for enlightening me to it.


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## Bollen (Jan 31, 2020)

If nobody minds I'd like to chip in my opinion... Which is Overture sucks and blows! It's not just that it crashes way too regularly, but also that the man in charge is insufferable! 

Granted, the "design" and "concept" of the program are short of genius! And I too really like how intuitive it is, not to mention the UI is great. But what is the point of all this if you can't actually do any professional work with it because it's incredibly unreliable? And I've tested it on three completely different machines.

And then there's Don, which it doesn't really matter how you deal with him (I was always super polite, enthusiastic and trying to be helpful) he has good days and bad ones... He'll often simply delete your post without even giving you any feedback about what you did wrong...

And finally there's the fact that you don't want to invest on a one man project. If anything were to happen to him, that would be the end of the program.

On a side note, I have never, ever had a crash with Dorico and I've used it on 3 machines and pushed it to the limits. So far (I've had it since version 2) it's been rock solid!


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## Thundercat (Jan 31, 2020)

Bollen said:


> If nobody minds I'd like to chip in my opinion... Which is Overture sucks and blows! It's not just that it crashes way too regularly, but also that the man in charge is insufferable!
> 
> Granted, the "design" and "concept" of the program are short of genius! And I too really like how intuitive it is, not to mention the UI is great. But what is the point of all this if you can't actually do any professional work with it because it's incredibly unreliable? And I've tested it on three completely different machines.
> 
> ...


One would hope he will have the foresight to sell his program to Steinberg or some other big music company.

You make excellent points.


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## d.healey (Feb 1, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> One would hope he will have the foresight to sell his program to Steinberg or some other big music company.


Selling to a big company doesn't guarantee the software will live on. He should give it to the people by releasing the source code.


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## Thundercat (Feb 1, 2020)

d.healey said:


> Selling to a big company doesn't guarantee the software will live on. He should give it to the people by releasing the source code.


Yeah - good idea. But then he doesn’t make any money. He deserves $$$ for his amazing work...

Plus maybe he needs it. Maybe that’s why he’s stressed out a lot.


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## Bollen (Feb 1, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Yeah - good idea. But then he doesn’t make any money. He deserves $$$ for his amazing work...


Agreed... But he also deserves to lose it for a being an ass... (albeit still financially compensated)...


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## d.healey (Feb 1, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> But then he doesn’t make any money.


Why do you think that?

Anyway, he could put it in his will so it's only released after he's dead, if that makes it any better.


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## Thundercat (Feb 1, 2020)

Bollen said:


> Agreed... But he also deserves to lose it for a being an ass... (albeit still financially compensated)...


From yours and others' reactions, I can only surmise he has royally pissed off a LOT of people. Too bad. You catch more flies with honey...


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## Quasar (Feb 1, 2020)

d.healey said:


> Selling to a big company doesn't guarantee the software will live on. He should give it to the people by releasing the source code.


All I know is that I tried the demo, fell in love with the concept, but found it way too buggy and crash prone (spoiled by Reaper maybe, which is so rock-solid stable for me). Subsequently learning that Overture is a one-man show does not inspire confidence in future stability improvements so I lost interest, because the project may well be too much for one person to handle, any one person.

I do think having a team of professionals involved (or an open source approach, whatever) would be great. Though I have seen the dev get pissed-off on forums, I couldn't care less about personalities. He's probably a good guy who has a low tolerance for certain kinds of crap, whatever. It's irrelevant. What is relevant is having whatever resources are needed to make the software reliable, stable and efficient. If this ever happens, I will revisit Overture. It's such a cool idea...


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## Sean J (Feb 5, 2020)

Image-line (FL Studio) would make a lot more sense. Even if he made a notation viewer for FL Studio, that would make more sense over their PDF output (I'd buy that actually). PreSonus, Steinberg, and certainly Avid do NOT need to buy Overture. It wouldn't help them or users.

Let's all agree that Avid just shouldn't buy anything ever again.


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## Sean J (Feb 5, 2020)

Out of curiosity, if Overture had...

Rock solid stability
A dark/flat/simpler UI
A forum moderator other than Don
Wills it to be open source or gets owned/operated by multiple people
Would you use it then?
How close or far off would it be?

While I'm a Studio One & Notion guy for the UI (layout/controls/simplicity), I haven't thrown in the towel I guess. I suppose I see the potential and love just that, even if it needs more time to be fully realized. Sometimes you have to do something 2 complicated ways just to see the 3rd simpler way to do it. I settled for less on a 3rd revision instrument script, only to realize halfway into writing it that I could easily do more with less code than before and in a more reliable way. Point is... one developer can do a lot. Maybe Don can get Overture to a place where these concerns seem pointless to ask. I believe he can.

-Sean


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## Bollen (Feb 5, 2020)

scoredfilms said:


> Rock solid stability


If it just had that I would be willing to put up with the rest... But I suppose it's too late now, happy with Dorico.


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## C_Calmes (Feb 11, 2021)

I've worked a lot with MuseScore. Version 3.6 is excellent for notation butthe sfz is really poor quality.
I have Notion 6. Nice piece of software. Good for composing but the rules used for VST use are painful to write and understand. Also, it's not the best for engraving
I have Overture 5. The concept is excellent. I can do a lot of things but as said before is been very unstable. The last version seems to be better, but it didn't take me long to find new bugs...
I have Dorico SE. The very first step is painful because it's so different from the previouly named notation softwares. But once the first step done. I have to admit that it is an impressive peace of software. What is the main problem of Dorico ??? the price ! 
Nobody is perfect 
There is actually a new contender. It really depends on what you're looking for.
I'm a Studio One Pro user. This is a rock solid DAW with state of the art midi editor.
With Studio One Pro 5, Presonus added a Score editor (obviously comming from Notion). It's not as complete as Overture or any of these Softwares, but if you like to compose with standard notation, it works fine. it deals perfectly with transpositing instruments and the latest versions added the hability to print th score directly from Studio One. Of there's still the solution to export score to Notion..


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