# Cinesamples CineScore - Score templates for Finale and Sibelius



## lucor

Cinesamples just announced orchestral score templates for Finale and Sibelius. Great idea imo, though probably only interesting for people who get to regulary work with real orchestras.

https://cinesamples.com/product/cinescore-template


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## prodigalson

Instant buy. Looks great. Little strange that they made these templates on relatively old versions of Finale (2011) and Sibelius (6). They have a warning on the product page that they may look different when opened in newer versions but I just opened it in Finale 2014 and it all seems to look great to me.


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## wcreed51

So, are the HP preference/Sountsets that come with these to play Cinesample instruments, or is it just engraving?


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## Paul T McGraw

Looks pretty cool. Now if they would just do professionally written soundsets for Sibelius for their own sample libraries Core and Pro versions (of their orchestral products, strings, woodwinds, brass and percussion) I would be a very happy guy. Seems like it would be an easy way for them to boost revenue.


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## prodigalson

wcreed51 said:


> So, are the HP preference/Sountsets that come with these to play Cinesample instruments, or is it just engraving?



its not a soundset, its just an engraving template.


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## Rodney Money

Paul T McGraw said:


> Looks pretty cool. Now if they would just do professionally written soundsets for Sibelius for their own sample libraries Core and Pro versions (of their orchestral products, strings, woodwinds, brass and percussion) I would be a very happy guy. Seems like it would be an easy way for them to boost revenue.


You can use Cinesamples in Finale or Sibelius:


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## JohnBMears

prodigalson said:


> Instant buy. Looks great. Little strange that they made these templates on relatively old versions of Finale (2011) and Sibelius (6). They have a warning on the product page that they may look different when opened in newer versions but I just opened it in Finale 2014 and it all seems to look great to me.



Not sure about why for Finale. On the Sibelius side, since Version 6 was the last true version before it was handed off to Avid, many folks simply stuck with it- many found that the host of large changes that occurred in Version 7 slowed workflow and those changes went hand in hand with Sibelius's new 'direction'. I moved on with 7 and 8 but still find 6 to be most friendly for me, but then again I have been on Sibelius since Version 1 in the 90s.


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## ag75

JohnBMears said:


> Not sure about why for Finale. On the Sibelius side, since Version 6 was the last true version before it was handed off to Avid, many folks simply stuck with it- many found that the host of large changes that occurred in Version 7 slowed workflow and those changes went hand in hand with Sibelius's new 'direction'. I moved on with 7 and 8 but still find 6 to be most friendly for me, but then again I have been on Sibelius since Version 1 in the 90s.


Most engravers that use Finale think that 2011 is currently the best, most stable version. I use 2014 and have had no problems with it.


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## bcarwell

I am a neophyte in film scoring and want my scores to appear industry standard as opposed to conventional classical scoring. I am wondering if I can figure out what the professional nuances, symbols and practices are by just looking at the templates, Mike Barry's score and an accompanying document 'outlining the standard operating practices".

How extensive is this document ? And would I be able to pick up sufficient real world industry nuances to conventional score preparation from this without more extensive descriptions ? For example I see a 1/2T in an example page which I presume means a whole step trill. How much of these departures from conventional classical notation would be apparent on sight without more ? My main interest in purchase is the educational value rather than actually use in producing scores for recording. Still at $65 I don't think I can go wrong.

Bob


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## SeattleComposer

Cool. I use Finale. This makes me very happy.


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## Pietro

Sounds like an instant buy to me too. Although, I'll wait and see if anyone with Sibelius 7 or later has any problems with it. Probably not?

- Piotr


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## JJP

I do this type of work in Hollywood (just finished the Oscars). I can tell you that each house has its own style and template. There are no font sizes or styles that are universal. There are conventions and terminology that are common, but there is no default "Hollywood style" that is used by everybody. A quick look at chord symbol fonts and conventions from across town will make this very clear. The template we used for the Oscars even has Finale's default notehead sizes altered. That's something almost nobody else in town does, but is highly favored by musicians on live shows.

It looks like these templates were created by Robert Puff who works in Seattle. Robert is a very knowledgeable, excellent copyist who does work on the Hollywood films that go to Seattle to record. That said, his work is by no means definitive for Hollywood as the marketing for these templates seem to imply. There are things I absolutely love about Robert's work, yet there are things I do differently for very specific reasons that come from years of experience and learning from veterans who cut their teeth using a pen instead of a computer. That's not to diminish the quality of Puff's excellent work, but merely to illustrate that there are distinct differences in style.

As for education, I wouldn't buy this hoping that it will teach you the nuances of copying that are used in Hollywood copy houses. For example "1/2" with a trill referenced in a previous post usually means half step, but if you didn't know that already you would only be able to discern that if it was set up to playback in that fashion... and you took the time to look under the hood! It's much faster to look it up in a book and then you'll also get an explanation and context for its usage.

Aside from terminology these templates won't teach how how to properly lay out a page, determine correct spacing of notes, the best enharmonic choices, or any other such subtleties that become essential in studio copying. Likewise an MS Word template won't teach you how to properly write a cover letter or critical essay.


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## bcarwell

JJP, many thanks for your detailed answer. I guess I now wonder exactly what the Cinescore Template is used for ? It now appears only for terminology or general practice, e.g. seeing the 1/2T, not knowing what it is, and looking it up somewhere, or jumbo sized time signatures, measure numbering convention, etc. I guess mimicking it might at least get you in the ballpark as a starting point so as to not totally embarrass yourself with a conventional classical orchestration appearing score ?


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## JJP

It's a template, not a how-to guide. It gives you a group of settings and indications that are used by one professional copyist. That can be handy to someone who knows how to use it. It won't teach you what those indications mean or why the copyist decided to use those particular settings.

I should also note that different classical publishers also have their own styles. 

Buying a template won't teach you notation and copying and orchestration. Buying a hammer or saw may give you insight into how a carpenter works, but it won't teach you carpentry.


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## ed buller

Just so you know. It works and looks great in Sibelius 7

e


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## stigc56

I think these templates caused a problem with winged repeats. The symbols for winged start repeat upper/lower was suddenly missing. I'm using Sibelius 8.


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