# VSL Announcement: Moving to iLok Key / Cloud - We are live!



## Ben (Mar 4, 2021)

Dear Community,

We have some important announcements to make. You can read the post from our CEO, Herb Tucmandl, here in our forum: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t57384-Moving-from-eLicenser-to-iLok#post302591

Please note that the official discussion will happen at the VSL forum.

Here a copy of Herb Tucmandl's announcement:

---

Hello Everyone,

It is my pleasure to announce that we’re starting to prepare the move to a new license management platform.

eLicenser has served us well during many years, but we’re also well aware of some limitations of the platform that we want to overcome for our customers and for us.

Thus we’re currently preparing the transition of all of our products to PACE’s iLok license management solution. This will take some time, but we’d like to let you know as early as possible that many new options in license handling will be available to our customers in the future, and that the entire process of purchasing and activating products will be streamlined and improved.

To make the entire migration as easy and hassle-free for our customers (and for us , here are a few key facts we’d like to share that early in the process:

• FREE TRANSITION: Moving your licenses from the eLicenser to the iLok platform will be free of charge for you.

• CHOICE OF KEY OR CLOUD: You will be able to choose if you’d like to store your VSL licenses on the iLok hardware key or in the iLok Cloud without using a hardware key.

• COMPATIBILITY: Under the iLok system, you will still be able to open existing projects as long as the eLicenser is connected. Once the project has been saved again, the eLicenser will no longer be required.

• CONTINUED SERVICE: You’ll be able to continue to use the ViennaKey/eLicenser USB key as well as the eLicenser Control Center for as long as it is working on your computers’ operating systems. Your licenses are safe and perpetual. Steinberg will keep the eLicenser license server available as long as possible, so you’ll be able to move licenses between eLicenser USB keys and will receive replacement licenses in case of damage, theft or loss of your eLicenser key (for free if you have a valid Vienna Protection Plan) well beyond the time when the iLok system is already available to you.
For every registered product in your VSL account, you will receive an iLok license. You will NOT be asked to return or delete any of your existing licenses on the eLicenser.

We’ll be able to provide more information later this year. Before you ask, at this time we don’t know when exactly we’ll be able to start moving licenses to the iLok platform, but you’ll be the first to know as we move along in the process.

What’s more, we’re now offering ViennaKeys at a substantial discount, and we’ll include a free €20 voucher with every ViennaKey order in our web shop.


Best wishes from Vienna,
Herb Tucmandl
CEO

--- additional information ---

Hello everybody,

I hope you are all enjoying summer (and of course winter, on the other side)!!

We are working on all the necessary steps that will make your *future transition to iLok* as comfortable as possible, and there are a few things we can already share with you!

More details and instructions will follow when the time has come.

*VIENNA PROTECTION PLAN

Starting August 1st*, the *Vienna Protection Plan* will be reduced to a *run-time of 1 year. *
New price: *€30*

Also, the day we’re making the iLok License Management platform available for all of our users:


We will stop selling Vienna Protection Plans.
We will stop selling ViennaKeys.
*YOUR TRANSITION to iLOK*

As soon as you have *registered your iLok account* with us (we will let you know when this is possible):


Your iLok licenses will be delivered to your iLok account automatically.
Your original eLicenser licenses will remain on your account, but cannot be transferred to any other account.
TIP: This could be a good time to register with iLok, if you don’t have an account yet. It’s FREE!

*GOOD TO KNOW*

- iLok offers a *Zero Downtime Coverage* and a *Theft & Loss Coverage*, please find more details here!
- All* future VSL software* will be available with *iLok protection only*.
- There will be *new sample content and software versions* available for you to download. An advanced Download Manager will make this a breeze.
- You will have to *decide whether you’d like to work with iLok or eLicenser for each Vienna Software product.* Our recommendation: Perform a complete transition of all your products right away.
- The *following products will NOT be available on iLok*: *Vienna Ensemble Pro 3/4/5/6*, *Numerical Sound FORTI/SERTI and ISP:IR* (discontinued in 2014).

So the only immediate change affects the Vienna Protection Plan, but we hope that this additional information will help you prepare for the changes in your system.

IMPORTANT: You will have enough time for the transition to iLok and of course our excellent support team will be there to help with all your questions!

All the best from Vienna,

Paul


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Mar 4, 2021)

First thing I checked is today's date, just to make sure it's not April 1st.  I like iLok Cloud.


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## Geomir (Mar 4, 2021)

And now, beyond any doubt, VSL is the best company ever.

Congratulations for this decision and for listening to your existing and potential customers requests. You are amazing. Nothing more to be said.


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## Simon Lee (Mar 4, 2021)

This is great news for me because I don’t have any VSL libraries but I do have a ilok account.👍🏽


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## matthieuL (Mar 4, 2021)

Ben said:


> • COMPATIBILITY: Under the iLok system, you will still be able to open existing projects as long as the eLicenser is connected. Once the project has been saved again, the eLicenser will no longer be required.


Does it mean we have only 2 choices :

open and resave all our existing projects, which can be very very long if we have dozens (or if like me we have Kontakt instruments and we have moved some libraries paths, then it takes ages to say to Kontakt where the samples are for each instrument)
keep an eLicenser for our entire life (and buy one regularly by security) or until the eLicenser doesn't exist anymore ?
Not appealing at all... Almost unacceptable !


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## Chungus (Mar 4, 2021)

Based. I never liked that dinky little Steinberg key - thing feels like it would break if I looked at it for too long. Much prefer Ilok.


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## holywilly (Mar 4, 2021)

What are the benefits moving to ilok?


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## colony nofi (Mar 4, 2021)

matthieuL said:


> Does it mean we have only 2 choices :
> 
> open and resave all our existing projects, which can be very very long if we have dozens (or if like me we have Kontakt instruments and we have moved some libraries paths, then it takes ages to say to Kontakt where the samples are for each instrument)
> keep an eLicenser for our entire life (and buy one regularly by security) or until the eLicenser doesn't exist anymore ?
> Not appealing at all... Almost unacceptable !


I didn't read it like that at all.
I agree its a little unclear - but I'm sure more info will be forth coming. I can't believe VSL wouldn't have workable solutions. Check their forum - there'll be way more info there than here.


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## puremusic (Mar 4, 2021)

This is really thrilling. Many times congratulations and thanks to VSL for the move!


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## colony nofi (Mar 4, 2021)

holywilly said:


> What are the benefits moving to ilok?


You can run without a physical ilok (Cloud) is probably the biggest one for most folk here.
But also, the backend use for it (for the companies using it) is WAY more powerful and offers much better opportunities for customer service in regards to sales of libraries and the like.


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## Ben (Mar 4, 2021)

matthieuL said:


> Does it mean we have only 2 choices :
> 
> open and resave all our existing projects, which can be very very long if we have dozens (or if like me we have Kontakt instruments and we have moved some libraries paths, then it takes ages to say to Kontakt where the samples are for each instrument)
> keep an eLicenser for our entire life (and buy one regularly by security) or until the eLicenser doesn't exist anymore ?
> Not appealing at all... Almost unacceptable !


Please understand that I cannot talk about any details yet, but we are aware of this potential invonvenience and are already contemplating possible solutions. Too early in the process yet, but we won’t leave you hanging.


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## Maarten (Mar 4, 2021)

From the iLok site:

What is the iLok Cloud?
The iLok Cloud allows iLok Cloud-enabled software to be authorized without the use of an iLok USB or a machine license. This feature requires that the computer be *continuously connected to the internet during use.*

Hmm, "continuously connected", is that improvement?


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## Frederick (Mar 4, 2021)

Very nice! This would settle the whole insurance issue. I'm using an iLok dongle now, but I could easily transfer my licences into the cloud as my internet is working fine > 99,9% of the time.

I sure do hope this won't introduce any sound artifacts when the internet is slow for a second. Does anyone have experience with iLok in the cloud and DAW performance?


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## Ben (Mar 4, 2021)

Frederick said:


> I sure do hope this won't introduce any sound artifacts when the internet is slow for a second. Does anyone have expierence with iLok in the cloud and DAW performance?


Don't worry, this should work just fine - but we will definitly check these scenarious with our software to make sure you will have a smooth experience!


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## JEPA (Mar 4, 2021)

Frederick said:


> Very nice! This would settle the whole insurance issue. I'm using an iLok dongle now, but I could easily transfer my licences into the cloud as my internet is working fine > 99,9% of the time.
> 
> I sure do hope this won't introduce any sound artifacts when the internet is slow for a second. Does anyone have experience with iLok in the cloud and DAW performance?


as far as I know the iLok Cloud only checks your license when you open your Project/DAW, when checked you can go off-line. This way it used to be, but I don't know today, I use a physical dongle now...


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## gst98 (Mar 4, 2021)

While iLok Cloud sounds great, in that you don't need the archaic physical usb, the outages are a huge problem. 

There was one one the Europe servers a few days ago, and once every minute, iLok cloud sends multiple notifactions at a time to say it has disconnected, that take focus of my screen making the entire DAW useless. I can't even use another app because it keeps trying to take focus until I quit the program. They've been happening quite a lot recently.


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## Shredoverdrive (Mar 4, 2021)

Excellent news!


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## mussnig (Mar 4, 2021)

Maarten said:


> From the iLok site:
> 
> What is the iLok Cloud?
> The iLok Cloud allows iLok Cloud-enabled software to be authorized without the use of an iLok USB or a machine license. This feature requires that the computer be *continuously connected to the internet during use.*
> ...


I am using iLok Cloud for my Seventh Heaven License. Yes, this means that you need internet access (at least when you open the project) but I have had some moments when my internet connection would fail and I could still work for some time (I cannot say exactly for how long because I am not always noticing connection problems immediately when I am working in my DAW).

On great advantage with iLok Cloud is that you don't need any dongles and you won't lose your licenses because your dongle or PC breaks (if your PC breaks you will have issues with machine based licenses). So also no need for any insurance or somthing like that. Obviously, I still prefer solutions that don't use dongles or iLok (e.g. NI or Spitfire stuff) but I also understand that companies want/need to protect their products ...


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## ReleaseCandidate (Mar 4, 2021)

holywilly said:


> What are the benefits moving to ilok?


Steinberg is ditching Elicenser.





No more dongles!


The question is what they are going to use instead ... It’s too early to announce details on the schedule or the new environment, but one thing is for sure: The future will be dongle-free. The Steinberg Team




vi-control.net


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## Maarten (Mar 4, 2021)

mussnig said:


> I am using iLok Cloud for my Seventh Heaven License. Yes, this means that you need internet access (at least when you open the project) but I have had some moments when my internet connection would fail and I could still work for some time (I cannot say exactly for how long because I am not always noticing connection problems immediately when I am working in my DAW).
> 
> On great advantage with iLok Cloud is that you don't need any dongles and you won't lose your licenses because your dongle or PC breaks (if your PC breaks you will have issues with machine based licenses). So also no need for any insurance or somthing like that. Obviously, I still prefer solutions that don't use dongles or iLok (e.g. NI or Spitfire stuff) but I also understand that companies want/need to protect their products ...


If that means only checking once a day, I think it's okayish. But 'continuously connected' suggests otherwise but maybe VSL can choose out of different 'check schemes'.


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## peladio (Mar 4, 2021)

Geomir said:


> And now, beyond any doubt, VSL is the best company ever.
> 
> Congratulations for this decision and for listening to your existing and potential customers requests. You are amazing. Nothing more to be said.


They are doing it because Steinberg is dumping eLicenser, not because of their love for their customers..

EDIT: ReleaseCandidate beat me to it


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## Geomir (Mar 4, 2021)

peladio said:


> They are doing it because Steinberg is dumping eLicenser, not because od their love of their customers..


If this was the case, then they would require iLok USB dongles from their customers, and not Cloud-based.

This means that after the change, no extra money for insurance will be required, no need to renew your dongle every 2 years, no stress about a broken or a lost dongle, and no waiting time if something like that happens, etc...

Plus you could sell your VSL libraries with just 1 mouse click. Or buy one like that. No need to wait for dongles to be shipped from one continent to another.

This is as good as it gets.

This means that they listen to their customers (existing or future ones)!


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## ptram (Mar 4, 2021)

matthieuL said:


> open and resave all our existing projects


Seems to be very complicate! I hope they will release some videos to help us with this, and offer a consulting service for the more complicate cases!



Paolo


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## AllanH (Mar 4, 2021)

This is really good news. The option of iLok Cloud is ideal even though I for now will remain with an USB iLok. On a technical note, it's largely up to VSL how often they check licensing, so they could choose to make iLok Cloud work acceptably well even with spotty internet connections.


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## holywilly (Mar 4, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Steinberg is ditching Elicenser.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a great news!


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## Evans (Mar 4, 2021)

I appreciate the heads up and transparency that VSL is offering for this transition. 

Now please release Synchron Brass.


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## ptram (Mar 4, 2021)

Evans said:


> Now please release Synchron Brass.


Yes! We need a fanfare to celebrate the good news!

Paolo


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## Ben (Mar 4, 2021)

ptram said:


> Yes! We need a fanfare to celebrate the good news!
> 
> Paolo


Here you go: https://www.vsl.co.at/BBO_Map/BBO_Zodiac


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 4, 2021)

mussnig said:


> On great advantage with iLok Cloud is that you don't need any dongles and you won't lose your licenses because your dongle or PC breaks (if your PC breaks you will have issues with machine based licenses). So also no need for any insurance or somthing like that. Obviously, I still prefer solutions that don't use dongles or iLok (e.g. NI or Spitfire stuff) but I also understand that companies want/need to protect their products ...


This +1000! Finally, I'll be able to invest in VSL. It's really cool that they listened to the community, very smart move.


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## szczaw (Mar 4, 2021)

Why is another hardware dongle necessary when the player can serve as one ? SF player, Sine are effective dongles.


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## Ben (Mar 4, 2021)

szczaw said:


> Why is another hardware dongle necessary when the player can serve as one ? EW play, SF player, Sine they are all effective dongles.


If you don't like the hardware key, you can use the iLok Cloud in near future


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## szczaw (Mar 4, 2021)

Ben said:


> If you don't like the hardware key, you can use the iLok Cloud in near future


I actually don't care since I already have iLok. I just thought I'd throw that out there.


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## chrisr (Mar 4, 2021)

Really chuffed to hear that Steinberg are ditching the eLicenser!

Hope that, if VSL can have any say in the matter, they choose to have minimal authorisation (daily?) from the cloud. 

I will probably go iLok dongle though - as I already have a bunch of other stuff on them (x2) - will be nice to lose the eLicensers though - they do indeed appear to be cosmetically more shoddy that the iloks.


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## sostenuto (Mar 4, 2021)

Must have caused this ....... just bought 2nd e-Licenser


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## Crowe (Mar 4, 2021)

I'll be patient and see what this solution entails, if this means the 'license insurance' is a thing of the past I may actually have to drop my animosity.

Good to see steps are being taken towards a more customer-friendly solution.


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## youngpokie (Mar 4, 2021)

A contrarian take: the way VSL/Steinberg protected themselves before was at the expense of everyone else - literally by punishing paying users with a dongle. Now that the server is broken, they have a ground-breaking new solution - let's punish paying users with a machine license instead!! What a stunning breakthrough in customer-centricity...


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## Evans (Mar 4, 2021)

youngpokie said:


> A contrarian take: the way VSL/Steinberg protected themselves before was at the expense of everyone else - literally by punishing paying users with a dongle. Now that the server is broken, they have a ground-breaking new solution - let's punish paying users with a machine license instead!! What a stunning breakthrough in customer-centricity...


Negative events are often what drive change (positive, in my opinion). It's not unique to VSL or Steinberg.

I don't really understand the point of the contrarian take. Are you saying that you're still mad and won't be a customer? Do you want to drag people who are happy about this down a notch? Maybe this stays out of the Commercial board and both our posts aren't in the right place.


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## PaulieDC (Mar 4, 2021)

Maarten said:


> I appreciate the heads up and transparency that VSL is offering for this transition.
> 
> Now please release Synchron Brass.


Best reply in the thread, lol!


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## SupremeFist (Mar 4, 2021)

Geomir said:


> This means that after the change, no extra money for insurance will be required, no need to renew your dongle every 2 years, no stress about a broken or a lost dongle, and no waiting time if something like that happens, etc...


Is it confirmed that this will be the case?


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## youngpokie (Mar 4, 2021)

Evans said:


> Negative events are often what drive change (positive, in my opinion). It's not unique to VSL or Steinberg.
> 
> I don't really understand the point of the contrarian take. Are you saying that you're still mad and won't be a customer? Do you want to drag people who are happy about this down a notch? Maybe this stays out of the Commercial board and both our posts aren't in the right place.


As a long time user of products from both companies, I am not mad at all. They made a decision and I accepted it a long time ago. Also, I have never had a single issue with a dongle - mine is from 2004.

What's not cool is when a solution is implied to be a result of customer focus, when it is clear that they would have kept the dongle for another decade if not for server problem. It's fine to celebrate it. But since it's a business, not charity, it's also ok to keep the pressure up.


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## Macrawn (Mar 4, 2021)

Very smart move.


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## muziksculp (Mar 4, 2021)

So what will the procedure be like to move an e-licenser license, to an iLok license from one physical key to the other ?


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## PaulieDC (Mar 4, 2021)

Actually, this is SUCH a good move/improvement. iLok is what the Steinberg key should have been all along. So here's a couple things that might answer questions:

iLok gives you both an online license bank (cloud licensing) plus supports the USB key. I'll explain why you want both in a sec. They also provide an iLok Manager app. Look how much better this is than the VSL/Steinberg Key... with the app you can:

View all licenses on ALL of your PCs/Macs plus the hardware key
Activate and deactivate licenses as needed. Maybe you have a library that only allows 1 install but you have the samples on a desktop and laptop. If the library maker allows using the Cloud version, you can switch easily on the fly, just deactivate and reactivate.
If you have a plugin with multiple licenses, it keeps track of your activations AND you can manage them
Pc went up in smoke? No prob, login to License Manager on the new PC and transfer the license. License management is the #1 best feature.
Hardware option: if you're traveling and want to work on the plane, transfer your license from the Cloud to the stick, then you won't need an internet connection. ANOTHER REASON FOR THE STICK: Some manufacturers are behind-the-times (are we listening Lexicon??) and require a hardware license only. You'll find that out when you buy it. Lexicon PCM Reverb ThankYouVeryMuch.
Tired of a plugin and want to sell it? No prob, open License Manager and transfer the license (again, if the manufacturer allows it)
Did your hardware stick slip out of your hand and land in the toilet as you were flushing? You know the drill: new key, open License Manager and move the licenses onto it.
When I switched to Cubase in 2019 and watched some startup videos, I remember the person stressed registering your copy of the licenser and if you failed a certain step you would have to repurchase the Cubase license if you lost the thing. It blew my mind that a company would be that ridiculous in their Customer Experience policy. iLok solves all that garbage.

And credit where credit is due: When iLok came out with the option to store your licensing in an online account that's totally manageable, East West was one of the first to adopt it. To find out that VSL is going to allow both types, and not be rigid by requiring the stick-only option, is a HUGE step in the right direction. I'm not a dongle fan, started out on Studio One, East West and Waves, so I never needed a stick until Cubase came along (and then Lexicon but at least it's iLok). I'd love it if the entire industry used iLok, we'd all have it in one place and it's totally flexible.

Here's what the License manager looks like. Note that I'm on my laptop, but I purposely clicked on my Desktop set of licenses and that's what you see. I love how the system is not machine-specific. The last entry on the list on the left I can click is the hardware key, and even if I don't have it plugged in, I can see what I have on there, just grayed out:


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## Geomir (Mar 4, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Is it confirmed that this will be the case?


Isn't it "automatically" confirmed that when you have iLok cloud-based licenses (free from USB-dongles), there is nothing to be broken or stolen? I don't know, I mean what could go wrong?


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## PaulieDC (Mar 4, 2021)

Geomir said:


> Isn't it "automatically" confirmed that when you have iLok cloud-based licenses (free from USB-dongles), there is nothing to be broken or stolen? I don't know, I mean what could go wrong?


So if your laptop gets stolen, you'll have a lot of passwords to change. One of them is your iLok account, and then Yes, your licenses are protected. If the hardware key was plugged in when the creep stole the laptop (maybe you were running Melodyne which requires the dongle), just login from another PC, deactivate the stick and you're protected.

If VSL and Steinberg are going to require a licensing system and are ready to change, iLok is a great choice.


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## Robert_G (Mar 4, 2021)

Ben said:


> Dear Community,
> 
> We have some important announcements to make. You can read the post from our CEO, Herb Tucmandl, here in our forum: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t57384-Moving-from-eLicenser-to-iLok#post302591
> 
> ...



This is 100% bad news. I am in great danger of spending the next 20 or so grocery budgets on several more VSL libraries as the dongle was the only thing keeping me from going crazy on VSL purchases.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 4, 2021)

Great move - option to use a physical key OR not, ZDT insurance support for ALL iLok licenses, license transfers without needing to send the whole dongle - assuming VSL agrees to this functionality of course.

Much prefer iLok.


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## Geomir (Mar 4, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> So if your laptop gets stolen, you'll have a lot of passwords to change. One of them is your iLok account, and then Yes, your licenses are protected. If the hardware key was plugged in when the creep stole the laptop (maybe you were running Melodyne which requires the dongle), just login from another PC, deactivate the stick and you're protected.
> 
> If VSL and Steinberg are going to require a licensing system and are ready to change, iLok is a great choice.


As far as I have read so far, they will give all their existing (and future) customers the option to keep their licenses inside a physical USB dongle (if they want to), but this will not be required (as already is the case with most iLok libraries and plug-ins).

So the user will always choose what suits him/her the best.


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## Robert_G (Mar 4, 2021)

Anyone want to speculate on a realistic time frame?


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## Hadrondrift (Mar 4, 2021)

Ben said:


> for free if you have a valid Vienna Protection Plan


If on the iLok the licenses are secure, even in the event of a hardware failure, meaning something like the Vienna Protection Plan will get obsolete, I could start buying VSL Libraries again. This is not a good move ... for my wallet.


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## Geomir (Mar 4, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> Anyone want to speculate on a realistic time frame?


Yes. It will be available before HOOPUS.


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## gzapper (Mar 4, 2021)

Well, I've always preferred the sound of eLincenser to iLok, samples just sound more realistic, my music comes out quicker and there are fewer clouds overhead, but I'm willing to give them up. Even after just buying a third replacement for an eLicenser dongle that just actually fell apart. Was plugging it in with a bare circuit board since the case fell off.


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## SupremeFist (Mar 4, 2021)

Geomir said:


> Isn't it "automatically" confirmed that when you have iLok cloud-based licenses (free from USB-dongles), there is nothing to be broken or stolen? I don't know, I mean what could go wrong?


I'll believe it when I hear it from VSL.


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## ptram (Mar 4, 2021)

I really dislike this idea of having to have my computer always connected to the internet. I keep my main studio computer disconnected to avoid some hacker stealing my precious reserved data!


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## Rob Elliott (Mar 4, 2021)

To early probably to whine.....but here I go. I have four puters running VERPO 7 (and other various VSL libraries). The ilok cloud sounds in theory like it would be easier BUT my paranoid mind - up against deadlines, rewrites in the middle of the night cannot afford for even a brief internet disconnect - and it WILL happen when I close a project open another one - at 2 am - unable to open it because of a solar flare, IP issues, neighbor cutting my fiber optic lead to my studio, etc..

I know... paranoid. I haven't had one client eager for their music tell me...'don't worry about the schedule if you are having computer issues - I totally understand' :(

Let's see how this pans out. I don't mind the 'hassle' of doing something because they can run their business better - I want VSL and Steiny to STAY in business. Just think about EVERY possible hiccup that could happen for your pro users - please.

It HAS TO BE WIN-WIN.


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## Vovique (Mar 4, 2021)

Awesome news, thank you!


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## EvilDragon (Mar 4, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I'd love it if the entire industry used iLok



Yeeeeeah, single point of failure is _such a great thing!_


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## artomatic (Mar 4, 2021)

So I often use an extra ViennaKey with a license for VEPro on a slave.
What options are there if not interested in iLok Cloud?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 4, 2021)

EvilDragon said:


> Yeeeeeah, single point of failure is _such a great thing!_


You already have this - unless you have the same license duplicated across your computer, iLok, eLicenser, another machine, etc. eLicenser was a poor alternative to iLok. Not everybody uses iLok (see Kontakt where most libraries are). Having eLicenser companies migrate to iLok does not create a single point of failure in terms of work - just simplifies things for users.


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## wst3 (Mar 4, 2021)

EvilDragon said:


> Yeeeeeah, single point of failure is _such a great thing!_


That is a thing, at the industry level, seems slightly less of a thing for any individual.

At one point, and maybe still today, developers had the option to specify a "grace period" - a window of time where the software still works without the internet connection. I may be confusing this with someone else's cloud based CP, but I'm pretty sure it was iLok.

In any case, I like the idea of switching to iLok - I keep the majority of my licenses on a physical dongle, mostly out of habit. I have played around with both cloud and PC based storage, and all three work.


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## homie (Mar 4, 2021)

Yeah ilok will be just like heaven...


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## Ben (Mar 4, 2021)

artomatic said:


> So I often use an extra ViennaKey with a license for VEPro on a slave.
> What options are there if not interested in iLok Cloud?


You can use an iLok USB key as well.


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## stodesign12 (Mar 4, 2021)

I... don't like this. Why don't get rid of ANY third party hardware license system? In my experience, iLok wasn't any better than eLicenser, but that is not even the problem. Why keep using an overcomplicated out of date system of twenty years ago instead of just having an app like Creative Cloud, Spitfire, Sine, etc.?


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## ptram (Mar 4, 2021)

Rob Elliott said:


> The ilok cloud sounds in theory like it would be easier BUT my paranoid mind - up against deadlines, rewrites in the middle of the night cannot afford for even a brief internet disconnect


For what I read, the physical iLok key will remain an option. In this case, it will likely be like the current situation, but with much better management software.

Paolo


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## AndyP (Mar 4, 2021)

Ben said:


> If you don't like the hardware key, you can use the iLok Cloud in near future


Good news. I have several e-licencer and iLok dongle, and it was annoying to buy new dongles every now and then because new programs could not be licensed on older dongles.
It's about time that I also use the cloud ... so far I was rather suspicious.


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## SupremeFist (Mar 4, 2021)

Ben said:


> You can use an iLok USB key as well.


I'm sure I'll get one of those since I don't like my 7H license being dependent on an Internet connection. But can you say yet whether your policy on lost/stolen dongles will be the same as it is currently?


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## easyrider (Mar 4, 2021)

stodesign12 said:


> I... don't like this. Why don't get rid of ANY third party hardware license system? In my experience, iLok wasn't any better than eLicenser, but that is not even the problem. Why keep using an overcomplicated out of date system of twenty years ago instead of just having an app like Creative Cloud, Spitfire, Sine, etc.?


I agree, it’s the perfect opportunity to develop a VSL in house system....


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## Rob Elliott (Mar 4, 2021)

ptram said:


> For what I read, the physical iLok key will remain an option. In this case, it will likely be like the current situation, but with much better management software.
> 
> Paolo


Yep - I'll have to pick up three new ilok dongles but this seems the most gorilla proof option. I bet they will STILL insist on insurance for all four dongles though.


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## Ben (Mar 4, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> But can you say yet whether your policy on lost/stolen dongles will be the same as it is currently?


I can't comment on this for now, sorry.


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## easyrider (Mar 4, 2021)

Rob Elliott said:


> Yep - I'll have to pick up three new ilok dongles but this seems the most gorilla proof option. I bet they will STILL insist on insurance for all four dongles though.


ZDT...


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## Michael Antrum (Mar 4, 2021)

To go slightly off at a tangent, does anyone know what Steinberg are going to do. Is Cubase/Dorico going iLok too ?


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 4, 2021)

I like the move by VSL to iLOK. I much prefer iLOK over elicensor. I sure hope they will then be able to protect our license without having to insure the dongles.


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## PaulieDC (Mar 4, 2021)

EvilDragon said:


> Yeeeeeah, single point of failure is _such a great thing!_


LOL! OK, got me there...


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## PaulieDC (Mar 4, 2021)

stodesign12 said:


> I... don't like this. Why don't get rid of ANY third party hardware license system? In my experience, iLok wasn't any better than eLicenser, but that is not even the problem. Why keep using an overcomplicated out of date system of twenty years ago instead of just having an app like Creative Cloud, Spitfire, Sine, etc.?


I wrote this to Steinberg last year and I'm sure they weren't happy about it, but I asked them why each company can't just do the PreSonus method? Username and password, that's it. It activates the local installation so you can go on your merry way. You get FIVE INSTALLS, and a dashboard on the webpage so you can deactivate whatever computer you need to. DONE.

Anyone fancy having 5 computers to put your DAW on? No dongle? Local activation? Works on a plane, on the beach or in your brother-in-law's boat because he insisted you needed to go on a fishing trip when you have a deadline for a project? Works for me.

Squeaky wheel gets the oil, I'm writing Steinberg again and we should write VSL. Start with "Hey, do you have any idea how much money you'll save NOT paying iLok fees?"  Never know, they are only at the drawing board right now. As far as we know anyhoo.


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## Casiquire (Mar 4, 2021)

I wonder if an ideal solution is a hybrid system where you can use a physical key during downtime or internet outages but the cloud the rest of the time. I understand that means two computers could potentially be used at the same time though.


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## easyrider (Mar 4, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I wrote this to Steinberg last year and I'm sure they weren't happy about it, but I asked them why each company can't just do the PreSonus method? Username and password, that's it. It activates the local installation so you can go on your merry way. You get FIVE INSTALLS, and a dashboard on the webpage so you can deactivate whatever computer you need to. DONE.
> 
> Anyone fancy having 5 computers to put your DAW on? No dongle? Local activation? Works on a plane, on the beach or in your brother-in-law's boat because he insisted you needed to go on a fishing trip when you have a deadline for a project? Works for me.
> 
> Squeaky wheel gets the oil, I'm writing Steinberg again and we should write VSL. Start with "Hey, do you have any idea how much money you'll save NOT paying iLok fees?"  Never know, they are only at the drawing board right now. As far as we know anyhoo.


ilok is pretty easy to crack by the hackers too...PROTECTiON : WRAPWARDEN/iLOK, FUSiON/iLOK, METAFORTRESS are laughed upon by the hackers and easily stripped....


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## mgpqa1 (Mar 4, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> ...Did your hardware stick slip out of your hand and land in the toilet as you were flushing?


Man, I _hate_ it when that happens.

Jokes aside, thanks for the informative post!


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## studioj (Mar 4, 2021)

I think this is a good choice by VSL! Might I suggest exploring the possibility of 2 or 3 activations per license. Many people use slave computers in their setup (including me) and I can say I mostly stopped investing in VSL libraries a long while ago (save just a couple of rando purchases) and have opted to purchase libraries I can install on my slave without a second license. So I can easily choose where to load the instrument at any given time... Allowing more than one activation, which ilok enables easily for developers who choose it, has earned my business along with software installs that allow multiple activations.


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## LAJ (Mar 4, 2021)

Ha, ha, ha ...!!! That IS a great day!


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## Tremendouz (Mar 4, 2021)

Just a note if someone's wondering: if there's an iLok Cloud outage, that means your project will fail to load unless you open it with all plugins offline, at least that's the case with Reaper. So, if this is a concern for you (eg. tight project deadlines) you'll probably want to stick to dongle until/if host-based authorization is allowed (most of my iLok stuff uses that instead of cloud)


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## PaulieDC (Mar 4, 2021)

Tremendouz said:


> Just a note if someone's wondering: if there's an iLok Cloud outage, that means your project will fail to load unless you open it with all plugins offline, at least that's the case with Reaper. So, if this is a concern for you (eg. tight project deadlines) you'll probably want to stick to dongle until/if host-based authorization is allowed (most of my iLok stuff uses that instead of cloud)


That's a good point. I keep my iLok and VSL key in a dedicated hub hidden behind my monitor. I should just move everything onto the stick, it's not like I'll lose it. Then if the stick fails I can deal with that with the License Manager. Glad you mentioned that.

I need to change my signature: "If it has to be a dongle, go iLok. If you really want to make us customers happy, PreSonus login method".

You know, just to be a noodge.


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## PaulieDC (Mar 4, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> This is 100% bad news. I am in great danger of spending the next 20 or so grocery budgets on several more VSL libraries as the dongle was the only thing keeping me from going crazy on VSL purchases.


There IS that.


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## ptram (Mar 4, 2021)

Tremendouz said:


> if there's an iLok Cloud outage, that means your project will fail to load unless you open it with all plugins offline


So, for users of single machines a physical key may be preferable.

I see you need a coverage insurance, unless you want to wait a long time for having your licenses back. But I can't find the price. Does anybody know how much the Zero Downtime insurance costs with the various options?

Paolo


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## EgM (Mar 4, 2021)

ptram said:


> So, for users of single machines a physical key may be preferable.
> 
> I see you need a coverage insurance, unless you want to wait a long time for having your licenses back. But I can't find the price. Does anybody know how much the Zero Downtime insurance costs with the various options?
> 
> Paolo


 30 bucks per ilok key, just renewed mine this week.

More details here:


https://www.ilok.com/#!zdt-coverage


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## ChickenAndARoll (Mar 4, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> There IS that.


Agreed. I only have their Synchron-ized Woodwinds right now simply because in my head I was like "Well if I only lose one library due to a license failure, no big deal". My wallet is nervous now.


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## PaulieDC (Mar 4, 2021)

ChickenAndARoll said:


> Agreed. I only have their Synchron-ized Woodwinds right now simply because in my head I was like "Well if I only lose one library due to a license failure, no big deal". My wallet is nervous now.


I hear ya'. I enrolled in three classes at Berklee for mixing and live sound, one per semester this year, and I now get 40% off anything I put in my cart at Orchestral Tools. Berlin everything. Yikes. I've been good so far, but...

Yikes. Seriously off topic!


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## YaniDee (Mar 4, 2021)

I have an E-Licenser with a lot of Steinberg products, an old Korg Digital trio license and 3 Vienna licenses..I'm not seing much to get excited about here, seems more of a hastle than anything else (Steinberg supposedly wants to ditch EL as well)..it appears to be making a lot of people happy, so I'm glad for them..


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## studioj (Mar 4, 2021)

studioj said:


> I think this is a good choice by VSL! Might I suggest exploring the possibility of 2 or 3 activations per license. Many people use slave computers in their setup (including me) and I can say I mostly stopped investing in VSL libraries a long while ago (save just a couple of rando purchases) and have opted to purchase libraries I can install on my slave without a second license. So I can easily choose where to load the instrument at any given time... Allowing more than one activation, which ilok enables easily for developers who choose it, has earned my business along with software installs that allow multiple activations.


I will also point out that I always found it odd/funny/frustrating that they are THE company that provides the ability to easily offload samples playback to a network (Vienna Ensemble), but then make it difficult/ cost prohibitive to run their own libraries across other machines on said network! It seems there must be a creative way to tie in authorizations to VEP or something so additional licenses aren't required. Hopefully they will take advantage of the multi-auth ilok feature.


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## easyrider (Mar 4, 2021)

@Ben How many licenses do you get per library?

Spitfire allow 2 licenses one for main PC one for laptop....Orechestral Tools allow 3 machines per licence.


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## Evans (Mar 4, 2021)

studioj said:


> I will also point out that I always found it odd/funny/frustrating that they are THE company that provides the ability to easily offload samples playback to a network (Vienna Ensemble), but then make it difficult/ cost prohibitive to run their own libraries across other machines on said network! It seems there must be a creative way to tie in authorizations to VEP or something so additional licenses aren't required. Hopefully they will take advantage of the multi-auth ilok feature.


From a product development standpoint, those are two very different sets of capabilities. They're not comparable just because there's "networking" and "samples" involved.

Additionally, VSL would have to alter their offers for VEPro. Does the full set of capabilities become free for the sake of these license checks? Do they create an alternate product somewhere between Vienna Ensemble and VEPro?

No, you offload the work to someone who has already figured it out with as minimal disruption as possible for your customer base. "You used to use eLicenser; now you use iLok" sounds pretty simple. People already gripe about VSL's product list being too complicated.


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## tcb (Mar 4, 2021)

YES YES YES YES YES


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## Casiquire (Mar 4, 2021)

easyrider said:


> @Ben How many licenses do you get per library?
> 
> Spitfire allow 2 licenses one for main PC one for laptop....Orechestral Tools allow 3 machines per licence.


I don't believe either of them are dongles. Most dongle libraries offer one license to use on an unlimited number of machines, but only one at a time


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## robgb (Mar 4, 2021)

Ben said:


> • CHOICE OF KEY OR CLOUD: You will be able to choose if you’d like to store your VSL licenses on the iLok hardware key or in the iLok Cloud without using a hardware key.


Cloud licensing is a game changer for me. I have avoided VSL (except for my old Opus 1 Kontakt edition) because of the dongle. Glad to see you're making this move.


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## dzilizzi (Mar 4, 2021)

This makes me happy. I may even buy more libraries, since I'm already paying the iLok insurance.


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## VSriHarsha (Mar 4, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> This makes me happy. I may even buy more libraries, since I'm already paying the iLok insurance.


That’s true! Well, I thought I wouldn’t buy any VSLs & I don’t think I have to write the next sentence. Well, thanks for listening to your regular & new customers, VSL.


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## studioj (Mar 4, 2021)

Evans said:


> From a product development standpoint, those are two very different sets of capabilities. They're not comparable just because there's "networking" and "samples" involved.
> 
> Additionally, VSL would have to alter their offers for VEPro. Does the full set of capabilities become free for the sake of these license checks? Do they create an alternate product somewhere between Vienna Ensemble and VEPro?
> 
> No, you offload the work to someone who has already figured it out with as minimal disruption as possible for your customer base. "You used to use eLicenser; now you use iLok" sounds pretty simple. People already gripe about VSL's product list being too complicated.


Yes, I was just pointing out that it was ironic to me that the company that made it easy for me to load my libraries on another machine also made it hard for me to load -their- libraries on another machine, compared to other devs. I am looking forward to this move to ilok and I hope they take advantage of the multiple authorization feature that ilok offers that I'm assuming e-licenser does not.


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## Michel Simons (Mar 4, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I wrote this to Steinberg last year and I'm sure they weren't happy about it, but I asked them why each company can't just do the PreSonus method? Username and password, that's it. It activates the local installation so you can go on your merry way. You get FIVE INSTALLS, and a dashboard on the webpage so you can deactivate whatever computer you need to. DONE.


That would be my preferred option as well. But it looks like they are dedicated to iLok dongle or cloud now, so that ship seems to have sailed. Not a big issue for me, because I am not heavily invested in VSL. Steinberg on the other hand...


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## CT (Mar 4, 2021)

It would be great if this also means demos will be more readily available. I'd really like to try Dimension Strings for myself. Maybe this was mentioned earlier, VERY SORRY if so.


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## Geomir (Mar 5, 2021)

And now I just realized I have zero experience with iLok Cloud. I always thought that there were 2 different ways of license management. First, the USB dongle, and second, the machine-based one (which you activate from your online iLok account to your main computer). It seems I was wrong. There are three. The following is copied-pasted from the official iLok website:

In the world of the iLok License Manager, a *license* is the asset that you have purchased or have acquired in your account. You will *activate* it to a location. A location is a place where you can hold an activation such as the iLok USB Smart Key, the iLok Cloud, *OR* your computer.
Activation to a computer, the iLok USB Smart Key, *OR* the iLok Cloud, requires an Internet connection. The iLok Cloud requires a constant Internet connection while the licensed software runs.
Many of us that have an excellent experience with machine-based license-handling through UVI, EastWest, Exponential Audio, etc., this experience reflects the machine-based activation, not the iLok Cloud one.

I just mention all this because if I was confused, maybe other people are confused as well. I see people here very happy with the dongle-free iLok option, and I am one of them (I consider iLok the best choice), I just felt it would be helpful to mention that "dongle-free" doesn't always mean "machine-based" as we know it (and love it!) from the above mentioned companies.

@Ben
Since you are in the process of making the final planning-programming-decision making, is there any chance to allow iLok Cloud Licenses of VSL libraries to be also stored in a main local machine?


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## Piotrek K. (Mar 5, 2021)

Mike T said:


> It would be great if this also means demos will be more readily available. I'd really like to try Dimension Strings for myself. Maybe this was mentioned earlier, VERY SORRY if so.


Some time ago they offered demos for synchronized special editions, one of them is a bit trimmed Dimensions Strings (but big enough to get an idea if this is your thing). Maybe you can check if they can still offer demo of that one?

And as for ilok... I'm kinda indifferent but will test cloud for sure, at least till first server issues


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## mr.vad0614 (Mar 5, 2021)

So if say you purchased a Vienna Library now, without a ViennaKey does that mean I can use my iLok to register the license with or do I have to wait and if so does that mean I would still need to buy a ViennaKey?


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## Ben (Mar 5, 2021)

mr.vad0614 said:


> So if say you purchased a Vienna Library now, without a ViennaKey does that mean I can use my iLok to register the license with or do I have to wait and if so does that mean I would still need to buy a ViennaKey?


You can not register licenses to the iLok yet, but you will get free iLok replacement licenses as soon as we finished the transition.

I would recommend to get an eLicenser in the meantime so you can already use the products - we have now discounted the ViennaKey (which is a rebranded eLicenser) and on top you also get an 20€ voucher: https://www.vsl.co.at/Product_Overview/ViennaKey


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## ReleaseCandidate (Mar 5, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> To go slightly off at a tangent, does anyone know what Steinberg are going to do. Is Cubase/Dorico going iLok too ?


Ilok wouldn't be 'dongle-free', so almost certainly not.


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## Trevor Meier (Mar 5, 2021)

Being able to move to a cloud key solution finally makes VSL libraries an option for me. Great news!


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## Pablocrespo (Mar 5, 2021)

I remember some weeks ago when ilok cloud crashed and I couldn´t use some of my plugins when trying to meet a deadline.
I don´t think Cloud authorization is not the best solution. (and I have 3 elicensers for my vsl servers)


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## Rob Elliott (Mar 5, 2021)

Pablocrespo said:


> I remember some weeks ago when ilok cloud crashed and I couldn´t use some of my plugins when trying to meet a deadline.
> I don´t think Cloud authorization is not the best solution. (and I have 3 elicensers for my vsl servers)


Exactly my fear - both for cloud side and my IP provider side. Dongles are the only option here as I see it.


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## zvenx (Mar 5, 2021)

Not sure if this has been answered (haven't read all six pages)......The one advantage of ilok over e-licenser for me personally is the ability for the developer to allow more than one activation per license.
For sure I hope VSL does this. 
rsp


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## Toecutter (Mar 5, 2021)

Not sure if this is a smart move from Steinberg and Vienna... eLicenser was the only thing preventing their software to be hacked. Now iLok?? There are infinite groups of cracked software on Facebook where morons share iLok "protected" plugins, it's a disgrace.


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## tomosane (Mar 5, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Not sure if this is a smart move from Steinberg and Vienna... eLicenser was the only thing preventing their software to be hacked. Now iLok?? There are infinite groups of cracked software on Facebook where morons share iLok "protected" plugins, it's a disgrace.


My understanding is that Cubase has been cracked for a good while now. Maybe VSL hasn't, but that could be simply down to the fact that there's comparatively much less demand for VSL cracking, at least I'd imagine most people dwelling in Facebook/Reddit piracy groups are into EDM, hiphop etc and not orchestral. That's not gonna change with them moving to iLok

EDIT: I think think this could be a very good move on VSL's part, if the cloud licensing works seamlessly (I haven't tried it yet) I may finally get into their ecosystem. Physical dongles have always been a dealbreaker for me, and for libraries this expensive I wouldn't feel comfortable with machine-based licenses either...


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## rrichard63 (Mar 5, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Ilok wouldn't be 'dongle-free', so almost certainly not.


iLok could be considered "dongle-free" if the developer offers machine and/or cloud-based authorization. All the user needs is the Pace software and (for cloud-based) an internet connection.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Mar 5, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> iLok could be considered "dongle-free" if the developer offers machine and/or cloud-based authorization. All the user needs is the Pace software and (for cloud-based) an internet connection.


Having the option of using a dongle (Ilok dongle is always an option, cloud/computer is not) is not being dongle free.
On the other hand, if some other company tells us that a change of their licensing platform because of the death of this licensing toolkit is 'overcoming the limitations of a platform', you actually may have a point here


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## youngpokie (Mar 5, 2021)

OK, so it looks like the correct headline to all this should have been: 

_"VSL/Steinberg announce they will force users to replace one dongle with another - or require an active internet connection while working". _

I recall a big debate about the benefit of a backup dongle, strongly "advised" by VSL (insurance and all that). Is there going to be a grace period or refund or whatever, for people who just recently bought two e-licensers and will now need an i-lok?


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## CT (Mar 5, 2021)

Piotrek K. said:


> Some time ago they offered demos for synchronized special editions, one of them is a bit trimmed Dimensions Strings (but big enough to get an idea if this is your thing). Maybe you can check if they can still offer demo of that one?
> 
> And as for ilok... I'm kinda indifferent but will test cloud for sure, at least till first server issues


Yeah I remember that, but it's moot at the moment for me since it still requires the dongle even just to try it out.


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## Evans (Mar 5, 2021)

youngpokie said:


> OK, so it looks like the correct headline to all this should have been:
> 
> _"VSL/Steinberg announce they will force users to replace one dongle with another - or require an active internet connection while working"._


Not really, no.


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## BasariStudios (Mar 5, 2021)

What about us who don't wanna transfer to iLok
and just wanna continue using eLicenser on the
existing stuff we have...can we?


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## BasariStudios (Mar 5, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Not sure if this is a smart move from Steinberg and Vienna... eLicenser was the only thing preventing their software to be hacked. Now iLok?? There are infinite groups of cracked software on Facebook where morons share iLok "protected" plugins, it's a disgrace.


Sadly you are right...every iLok Software is cracked.
There is no VSL Library cracked yet.


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## rgames (Mar 5, 2021)

Can someone enlighten me on how a dongle is less reliable than machine-based activation? I know probably several dozen people who use dongles and I've never heard of one dying. Computers, however, especially hard drives, fail pretty regularly. So.... ???

I wouldn't be surprised if dongles are 1000x more reliable than machine-based validation.

rgames


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## BasariStudios (Mar 5, 2021)

rgames said:


> Can someone enlighten me on how a dongle is less reliable than machine-based activation? I know probably several dozen people who use dongles and I've never heard of one dying. Computers, however, especially hard drives, fail pretty regularly. So.... ???
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if dongles are 1000x more reliable than machine-based validation.
> 
> rgames


2 times it happened to me, 1 time my iLok 
failed and 1 time my eLicenser failed.


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## rgames (Mar 5, 2021)

BasariStudios said:


> 2 times it happened to me, 1 time my iLok
> failed and 1 time my eLicenser failed.


Sorry to hear that. But you're one person - I'm curious to know data based on the experiences of a large number of people (i.e. reliability, not web forum anecdotes). I bet the number of computer component failures outnumber dongle failures by at least a couple orders of magnitude. That means machine-based validation would be at leat a couple orders of magnitude less reliable.

rgames


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## Pedro Camacho (Mar 5, 2021)

Ben said:


> Dear Community,
> 
> We have some important announcements to make. You can read the post from our CEO, Herb Tucmandl, here in our forum: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t57384-Moving-from-eLicenser-to-iLok#post302591
> 
> ...





Ben said:


> Dear Community,
> 
> We have some important announcements to make. You can read the post from our CEO, Herb Tucmandl, here in our forum: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t57384-Moving-from-eLicenser-to-iLok#post302591
> 
> ...


I am quite happy that ilok is now being used. Much easier and flexible, imo.
Just make sure you let us create 2 authorizations (for main and backup PC), like all developers do.


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## babylonwaves (Mar 5, 2021)

Here’s my take on safety:

- Ilok cloud: nice as long as the cloud is online
- machine based CP: nice until the drives crashes
- Ilok key: nice until it dies... unless ...

but above is not all. If you invest 30 bucks per key per year, all you need is a replacement key and you’re nearly instantly back in the game. Since I have ZDT I sleep better. honestly. Both other options require an much bigger effort to get back to my status quo. and that‘s why that‘s totally worth the 30 bucks, at least for me.

i‘ve had every USB Ilok model ever built. and whenever a new one came out (we are at model 3 now) I’ve upgraded and moved the licenses. I never had an issue with any of my iloks in the last 20 years.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 5, 2021)

youngpokie said:


> Is there going to be a grace period or refund or whatever, for people who just recently bought two e-licensers ...





BasariStudios said:


> What about us who don't wanna transfer to iLok
> and just wanna continue using eLicenser on the
> existing stuff we have...can we?


Good question. If I understand them correctly, VSL says that their eLicenser licenses will continue working indefinitely. But it seems to me that Steinberg is going to pull the plug on the servers at some point. I don't think they've given us any hints about when that will be.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 5, 2021)

rgames said:


> Can someone enlighten me on how a dongle is less reliable than machine-based activation? I know probably several dozen people who use dongles and I've never heard of one dying. Computers, however, especially hard drives, fail pretty regularly. So.... ???
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if dongles are 1000x more reliable than machine-based validation.
> 
> rgames


That might (or might not) be true with today's USB flash drive technology (e.g. iLok 3). But flash drives used to have a bad reputation for longevity -- worse than spinning hard drives. The other issue with dongles applies mainly to use on portable laptops: they are prone to physical damage in use and during transport.

Two big advantages to iLok. First:


babylonwaves said:


> If you invest 30 bucks per key per year, all you need is a replacement key and you’re nearly instantly back in the game. Since I have ZDT I sleep better. honestly. Both other options require an much bigger effort to get back to my status quo. and that‘s why that‘s totally worth the 30 bucks, at least for me.


Second, when your PC fails or becomes obsolete, your iLok licensed software is the easiest to reinstall and reauthorize. And for that you don't even need to pay a $30 insurance premium. This happened to me last August. Starting from scratch with new computer made me a firm believer in iLok.


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## Ben (Mar 5, 2021)

For further clarification we've added some additional information to the original announcement:


> For every registered product in your VSL account, you will receive an iLok license. You will NOT be asked to return or delete any of your existing licenses on the eLicenser.


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## Virtuoso (Mar 5, 2021)

Ben said:


> For every registered product in your VSL account, you will receive an iLok license. You will NOT be asked to return or delete any of your existing licenses on the eLicenser.


This is great news. I was going to ask if we would get any additional authorizations (which is common in the iLok world), so that we can use our VSL libraries on VEP slave machines as well as our main DAW units without having to shuffle licences between dongles.

So regardless of what happens with iLok, the ability to still use our Vienna Key licences gives us at least one slave option.


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## dzilizzi (Mar 5, 2021)

I really like dongles, especially my iLok. I've upgraded my computers and drives so many times, and the iLok has made it so easy. The machine licenses are the worst. Right now, I'm going to have to put my old nvme drive back in my music computer because for some stupid reason Steinberg installed padshop with a soft license instead of a elicenser license. I get error messages every time I load the DAW. And I really don't use Padshop much. With a dongle, I can load libraries everywhere and they run great with only having to plug in the dongle. No authorization questions, signing in, remembering passwords, finding serial numbers, etc... Install, plug in dongle and done. Such a timesaver.


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## Maarten (Mar 5, 2021)

Bottom-line:

@Ben two related questions: 
- can I use an iLok dongle as a backup if the online-check fails?
- can I use the online-check as a backup if the iLok dongle fails?


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## Virtuoso (Mar 5, 2021)

Maarten said:


> Bottom-line:
> 
> @Ben two related questions:
> - can I use an iLok dongle as a backup if the online-check fails?
> - can I use the online-check as a backup if the iLok dongle fails?


I think that will depend on how many activations VSL give us. With iLok you decide whether your license will be in the Cloud OR on your dongle. With two or more activations, that issue goes away.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 5, 2021)

Ben said:


> For further clarification we've added some additional information to the original announcement:


`For every registered product in your VSL account, you will receive an iLok license. You will NOT be asked to return or delete any of your existing licenses on the eLicenser.`

That's good. What it does not clarify, however, is how long Steinberg's eLicenser servers will continue to run.


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## Wunderhorn (Mar 5, 2021)

So, we are hopping from the frying pan into the fire.
It does not seem to be much of a change.

My older EW things that I have with an iLok now don't work on several computers anymore when moving the dongle from one machine to another: I call that utterly useless.
Having to be constantly online for authorization is invasive and makes one feel like a non-trustworthy customer after having obtained a legal license, it also limits mobility or travel to remote places with sketchy internet.
In case of iLok putting responsibility on the user about retrieving keys, malfunctioning of authentication servers etc. in regards to the copy protection alone is just another layer of impertinence - making them pay an insurance on that is beyond greed and rudeness.
I say for whomever customer relation is somewhere near the top of the list on the business plan there surely can be a better way to be found that does not have to encumber customers or invade their privacy to such a big degree.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 5, 2021)

Wunderhorn said:


> So, we are hopping from the frying pan into the fire.
> It does not seem to be much of a change.
> 
> My older EW things that I have with an iLok now don't work on several computers anymore when moving the dongle from one machine to another: I call that utterly useless.
> ...


iLok has worked for well over two decades. You don't have to be online constantly if you use the dongle. There are a number of benefits as others have mentioned in terms of migrating to new machines. It takes me far less time to get a new machine setup with iLok libraries / plugins than ones that have computer-based CR schemes or license files. There's no invasion of privacy or impertinence here for a customer.

And it is better than eLicenser for a number of reasons mentioned earlier.


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## typewriter (Mar 5, 2021)

Ben said:


> For further clarification we've added some additional information to the original announcement:


So in essence this means one licence (since elicencer fades out) per purchased library. Such an offer is no longer up to date and highly unflexible. It prevents us from distributing a library on several VEPRO servers or from using a library on a laptop on the road AND in the studio. So, frankly where is the advantage in switching to iLOK?


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## dzilizzi (Mar 5, 2021)

typewriter said:


> So in essence this means one licence (since elicencer fades out) per purchased library. Such an offer is no longer up to date and highly unflexible. It prevents us from distributing a library on several VEPRO servers or from using a library on a laptop on the road AND in the studio. So, frankly where is the advantage in switching to iLOK?


How is this different from what we already have?


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## Mark Schmieder (Mar 5, 2021)

Wow, this is great news, and quite a pleasant surprise at the end of a hard day's slog!

I have had many problems with eLicenser over the years, but none since buying the latest rev of the dongle a few months back. I've always been nervous about my VSL investment as a result.

It never occurred to me to consider iLok Cloud, so I'll have to check into whether one can have the license on a dongle and on iLok Cloud, in case either fails.

Also, I seem to recall ZDT being per-license vs. per-dongle way back, and quite expensive and not even guaranteed to replace the licenses (vendor by vendor), so it's good to see the latest status on ZDT. I'll buy into that ASAP.

I do not have the latest and greatest iLok; I have the previous generation. I may need to upgrade, to hold more licenses. One of the reasons I prefer iLok though, is that VSL can quickly cause one to reach the maximum number of licenses -- at least on older versions of the eLicenser dongle.

I'm also pleased that resale will be easier now, as I at some point need to canvas my redundant or no-longer used older VI libs now that I am almost all-Synchron in my workflow, and it was just too daunting to think about how to deal with that so I haven't bothered yet.

Perhaps best of all, I'll have one less fragile thing sticking out of the back of my 2017 iMac to worry about breaking, and one more USB port available for direct connection sans hub (the dongles haven't worked so well when connected to hubs vs. plugged directly into the computer's ports).

As an aside, I constantly get "license not found" with eLicenser, in the middle of a session or especially at startup (though "retry" usually works). My heart skips a beat each time, thinking the dongle broke.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 5, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I'm also pleased that resale will be easier now,


This isn't clear yet (at least not to me). iLok will let you transfer licenses that are not marked NFR or with some other special status. But by itself that does not register you with the developer as the new owner and doesn't give you access to technical support or upgrades. With most developers, transferring an iLok product is a two-step process involving both the developer and iLok.

EDIT: in #136 immediately below, Mark clarified what he meant by easier resale. My comment above is true (I think) but not really responsive to his point.



Mark Schmieder said:


> It never occurred to me to consider iLok Cloud, so I'll have to check into whether one can have the license on a dongle and on iLok Cloud, in case either fails.


That depends on the number of authorizations allowed by the developer. It's often two or three but some developers limit you to one (as VSL does on eLicenser). If the developer allow more than one authorization, unused ones stay in your account and can indeed be considered backups of a sort.


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## Mark Schmieder (Mar 5, 2021)

Maybe so, but that doesn't bother me. Sure, there's an iLok transfer fee, but VSL has a transfer fee anyway (and understandably so). The main thing is not having to ship a dongle back and forth multiple times, which is risky and also makes it hard to sell things piecemeal, meaning more potential customers, which in turn is a win-win as those same buyers of used licenses are then more easily able to flesh out their VSL collections with first-hand sales from the vendor (or an authorized dealer).

For those who don't look at ads, I'm making my own extra dongles available for free based on this news, knowing it will help some people who would rather not invest actual money in a short-term dongle, but I think VSL's lowered price combined with their voucher amounts to the same thing.


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## FireGS (Mar 5, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I really like dongles


So much could be said, but I'll leave it alone.


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## AEF (Mar 5, 2021)

after the recent three day outage from steinberg this is welcome news.


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## Raphioli (Mar 5, 2021)

I think this is a great decision. I wish all companies using e-Licenser would move over to iLok(Steinberg, I'm looking at you).
Then I wouldn't have to worry about multiple dongles.
And iLok3 looks like it has better build quality than those plastic e-licensors which I hear fall apart from time to time.


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## Drjay (Mar 5, 2021)

@Ben: will there be a price reduction of the protection plan as well? One of my e-licensers is running out of warranty in a couple of months. Therefore I‘d like to be covered until the advent of the iLok licensing.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 5, 2021)

Raphioli said:


> I think this is a great decision. I wish all companies using e-Licenser would move over to iLok(Steinberg, I'm looking at you).
> Then I wouldn't have to worry about multiple dongles.
> And iLok3 looks like it has better build quality than those plastic e-licensors which I hear fall apart from time to time.


Steinberg is indeed moving to iLok, and I wonder if they are killing e-licenser technology after a recent breakdown.


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## typewriter (Mar 6, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> How is this different from what we already have?


It is not. That is my point. Most other libs or plugins from other developers can be installed on more than one machine. Here we are stuck with one authorisation like before. Essentially we are moving from one usb stick to another. Cloud authorisation is okay when you don't have to move around athorisations all the time.


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## Theladur (Mar 6, 2021)

Geomir said:


> And now I just realized I have zero experience with iLok Cloud.
> ...
> @Ben
> Since you are in the process of making the final planning-programming-decision making, is there any chance to allow iLok Cloud Licenses of VSL libraries to be also stored in a main local machine?


I had the same train of thoughts.
At first, I was really happy that VSL instruments might finally be an option for me.
But then I checked and realised that what I am currently using for some plugins is the "machine based" activation, where you only need to be online while (de-/)activating your computer, but you can be offline the whole time while composing.

Therefore, I would also like to know if only usb- or cloud activation will be possible (which means I would continue avoiding VSL), or if the "machine" activation will be possible as well (which means I will probably loose a lot of money in the future, but will gain a lot of shiny new toys...).


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 6, 2021)

NYC Composer said:


> Steinberg is indeed moving to iLok, and I wonder if they are killing e-licenser technology after a recent breakdown.


Where did you read that?


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 6, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> I think that will depend on how many activations VSL give us. With iLok you decide whether your license will be in the Cloud OR on your dongle. With two or more activations, that issue goes away.


Most stuff on my ilok has 1/2 used licenses. Could i transfer the 2/2 licenses on a second ilok (as backup) on it?


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## Kevinside (Mar 6, 2021)

yes you can... The main use of more activations to use the software on more than one computer.
Main Machine and Notebook on the road...for example...

I am sure, that VSL will give us only one activation like many other companies. (Zynaptiq, Cranesong,...)

But for me ilok is the best, vsl can do...cause of the Zero Donwntime Protection ilok provides to protect your dongle...


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## NYC Composer (Mar 6, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Where did you read that?


On thesoundboard.net


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 6, 2021)

NYC Composer said:


> On thesoundboard.net


Couldnt find that, but im blind.


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## muk (Mar 6, 2021)

VSL has announced that they'll move to ilok. Steinberg hasn't. Steinberg only comfirmed that they'll discontinue elicenser, that the future will be 'dongle free', and that they won't move to subscription only. What protection model Steinberg will use instead of elicenser - that they haven't announced yet.


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## rudi (Mar 6, 2021)

Theladur said:


> I had the same train of thoughts.
> At first, I was really happy that VSL instruments might finally be an option for me.
> But then I checked and realised that what I am currently using for some plugins is the "machine based" activation, where you only need to be online while (de-/)activating your computer, but you can be offline the whole time while composing.
> 
> Therefore, I would also like to know if only usb- or cloud activation will be possible (which means I would continue avoiding VSL), or if the "machine" activation will be possible as well (which means I will probably loose a lot of money in the future, but will gain a lot of shiny new toys...).



As per the iLok website (bolded and italics mine):

https://www.ilok.com/#!license-manager

iLok License Manager​
The License Support installer (above), contains all of the needed drivers, system files and the *iLok License Manager.* With these tools, you can activate and de-activate your licenses to fit your workflow. All iLok enabled licenses can be activated to the *iLok USB* Smart Key. _Some publishers_ allow *computer *or *iLok Cloud* activations. With the iLok License Manager, you can move your licenses to where they are the most convenient for you.

Activation to a computer, the iLok USB Smart Key, or the iLok Cloud, requires an Internet connection. The iLok Cloud requires a constant Internet connection while the licensed software runs.

So, it is technically possible but it is up to the publisher to allow machine based authorisations. 
From what I have seen so far, VSL haven't enabled that option, unless I missed it.


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## easyrider (Mar 6, 2021)

rudi said:


> As per the iLok website (bolded and italics mine):
> 
> https://www.ilok.com/#!license-manager
> 
> ...


They didn't allow machine based as there was money to be made of the keys and insurance...

I hate Ilok machine based activations....yeah sure it’s great before your laptop dies and then it’s a PITA 

Toontrack and Plugin Alliance and UHE know what they’re doing...


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## Theladur (Mar 6, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I hate Ilok machine based activations....yeah sure it’s great before your laptop dies and then it’s a PITA


Out of curiosity I googled this case, and found a thread on kvr that it is not possible to deactivate a machine based licence if the drive or computer is dead... turns out that you have to ask each developer seperately for a _new_ key, as the old one can't be reset. Didn't know that.  

I think I have to reconsider my current opinion.


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## stodesign12 (Mar 6, 2021)

NYC Composer said:


> Steinberg is indeed moving to iLok, and I wonder if they are killing e-licenser technology after a recent breakdown.


That doesn't make any sense, Steinberg literally said "The future will be dongle-free" and other things that do not make us believe that they are moving to iLok. I would be extremely disappointed if that's the case, but I can't find anything suggesting that.



Theladur said:


> Out of curiosity I googled this case, and found a thread on kvr that it is not possible to deactivate a machine based licence if the drive or computer is dead... turns out that you have to ask each developer seperately for a _new_ key, as the old one can't be reset. Didn't know that.
> 
> I think I have to reconsider my current opinion.


I had to ask Avid to deactivate some licences I had in a laptop I lost... Machine activations are an awful system. I can't see any real advantage of VSL moving to iLok to be honest, this is a missed oportunity to upgrade to something more user friendly. 
I hate how the music technology industry can sometimes be so outdated.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 6, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Couldnt find that, but im blind.







__





The Front Page - The Sound Board






thesoundboard.net


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## Mark Schmieder (Mar 6, 2021)

The apparent conflict of statements might easily be explained by Steinberg going to iLok Cloud, whether or not they also support a iLok dongle basis.

I think it was a question of semantics, but as this is not yet resolved, I'm going to delete what I wrote on another forum so that it doesn't potentially spread misinformation if it turns out that Steinberg is NOT going to ANY form of iLok licensing.


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## Nimrod7 (Mar 6, 2021)

Please consider deprecating the "examine the dongle" policy when the iLok get faulty.
If every company was requesting that, with 400 licenses in my iLok, I will have to send it for a world tour.

Also it's unacceptable that you're asking your users to pay half fee if the dongle gets stolen.
For the dongle to get stolen, usually means that laptop got stolen, or a breakin the house or the studio. It's highly likely the users are already suffering financial losses, damages and they are highly depressed from a situation like this, and you are asking them to pay "Half Price".

I didn't know that, got some Synchron stuff, the future will depend on the decisions you're going to make regarding licensing.


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## Noeticus (Mar 7, 2021)

So.... if Spitfire requires no dongle, and Orchestral Tools requires no dongle, and AudioBro requires no dongle... etc. etc.

Well, then why not just add VSL to the list?


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## dzilizzi (Mar 7, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> So.... if Spitfire requires no dongle, and Orchestral Tools requires no dongle, and AudioBro requires no dongle... etc. etc.
> 
> Well, then why not just add VSL to the list?


VSL does allow returns and resales. OT, AudioBro and Spitfire do not.


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## Noeticus (Mar 7, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> VSL does allow returns and resales. OT, AudioBro and Spitfire do not.


True, but I would rather give up returns and resales if they would get rid of the dongle.


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## Evans (Mar 7, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> True, but I would rather give up returns and resales if they would get rid of the dongle.


My preference is the opposite. I've returned a fair few, and have made some amazing purchases that I otherwise would not have were that "parachute" not present. 

I know that the "ideal" solution for buyers is that there's a return policy _and_ no dongle, but I suppose that's not in question.


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## Noeticus (Mar 7, 2021)

Since almost ALL software of any kind is generally not returnable, I would go for no dongle.

The government should regulate this industry in a manner to my liking.


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## Dietz (Mar 7, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> Since almost ALL software of any kind is generally not returnable, I would go for no dongle.
> 
> The government should regulate this industry in a manner to my liking.


Why stop with this industry? What about RULING THE WORLD, for starters?!?


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## dzilizzi (Mar 7, 2021)

Dietz said:


> Why stop with this industry? What about RULING THE WORLD, for starters?!?


First the VI industry, then the world, then the galaxy, then the universe, then the parallel universes, then the....I'm not sure what comes next? Time?

Edit: I think I need a vacation. All this ruling is tiring.


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## zvenx (Mar 7, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> The apparent conflict of statements might easily be explained by Steinberg going to iLok Cloud, whether or not they also support a iLok dongle basis.
> 
> I think it was a question of semantics, but as this is not yet resolved, I'm going to delete what I wrote on another forum so that it doesn't potentially spread misinformation if it turns out that Steinberg is NOT going to ANY form of iLok licensing.


Where is this coming from?
When did SB even hint they were going to iLok Cloud?

rsp


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## Mark Schmieder (Mar 7, 2021)

You're barking up the wrong tree; I was in fact trying to explain why it would not be a contradiction of what had been stated, were it to be the case that they're going to iLok, as iLok Cloud is an option (sometimes) and doesn't involve a dongle.

Look further up to see who posted that Steinberg "said" they're going to an iLok. When you actually go to their linked "proof", it evaporates pretty quickly as it isn't even a Steinberg statement that is behind the supposition that they're going to iLok.

Only time will tell.


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## FrankieD (Mar 7, 2021)

I've been an East West cloud composer user for years with an iLok license. I just purchased the entire Vienna library. The key is still in the box. At least I don't have to use a new dongle.


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## zvenx (Mar 7, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> You're barking up the wrong tree; I was in fact trying to explain why it would not be a contradiction of what had been stated, were it to be the case that they're going to iLok, as iLok Cloud is an option (sometimes) and doesn't involve a dongle.
> 
> Look further up to see who posted that Steinberg "said" they're going to an iLok. When you actually go to their linked "proof", it evaporates pretty quickly as it isn't even a Steinberg statement that is behind the supposition that they're going to iLok.
> 
> Only time will tell.


Ahh I then misunderstood you.
I would be shocked if SB went to ilok, for obvious and not so obvious reasons.
Even though when I first came on board he SB wagon (Nuendo 1.5) they were in fact using an ilok dongle, which I still have.
rsp


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## Michael Antrum (Mar 7, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> Since almost ALL software of any kind is generally not returnable, I would go for no dongle.
> 
> The government should regulate this industry in a manner to my liking.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 8, 2021)

I said they (Steinberg) were going to iLok, but it’s true, it’s just a supposition on my part. What’s clearer is that they’re moving on from e-Licenser. My bet would be iLok, giving people a dongle/free choice if they want to use iLok Cloud. I doubt they’ll go protection-free.


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## Michael Antrum (Mar 8, 2021)

I’d be very surprised indeed if they went to iLok.

I would guess they’ll do some kind on machine activation, and that it will be something developed in house.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 8, 2021)

I would be pretty surprised by that, given that existing iLok tech allows it now.


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## DovesGoWest (Mar 8, 2021)

All i read on the on the Steinberg site was that there were going to move away from eLicenser and no explicit mention of iLok. People voiced concerns etc. and the response was that these were been taken into consideration and that the move be very carefully done so as not to create more issues.

Personally i have never had an issue with the eLicenser\Dongle granted when Cubase11 came out there was the delays due to server overloads but apart from that i have never had another issue. Now i also have iLok due to having 7th Heaven and that has been nothing but a bag of issues, the number times the iLok cloud goes wrong and its got worse recently. Every time it goes down it screws up Cubase to the point of it either wont save or hangs or keeps displaying messages every minute. 

Apparently iLok has 3 modes dongle, computer and cloud and it is up to the company that licenses iLok to decide which they support. When i asked 7th heaven they told me they only support dongle\cloud as they were informed that computer wasn't very secure. This means that i am forced into having to purchase a dongle just so my mobile rig can operate in a mobile fashion, this is something that companies using iLok need to be more transparent about.


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## Michael Antrum (Mar 8, 2021)

Steinberg have said they will be going dongle free


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## DovesGoWest (Mar 8, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Steinberg have said they will be going dongle free


Thats fine as long as they dont expect an always on connection, my fear is that they do the same as 7th heaven and say "No you don't need a dongle its all cloud based" until you need to be disconnected and then you do need a dongle. Its a get out of jail option for them as they can rightly say you dont need a dongle and been mobile is you choice which means you will have to have a dongle.


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## zvenx (Mar 8, 2021)

NYC Composer said:


> I would be pretty surprised by that, given that existing iLok tech allows it now.


I am curious.
What would be the advantage for them of going ilok vs adding multiple activation and cloud security via their own e-licenser?

It would make them dependent on a third party for all their products including the ability to update (pace is not M1 native yet for instance so they are no AAX or ilok protected Native plugins currently or afaik soon to be released)

rsp


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## Geomir (Mar 8, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Steinberg have said they will be going dongle free


A part of Steinberg is already dongle free. Iconica is the best example of how friendly customer service can be. I have it installed in my soft eLicenser (machine-based), and it works fine even without Internet.

But unlike iLok's libraries, if your machine dies you can reactivate your licenses in a new one no matter what. You don't have to do anything beforehand.

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/...-reactivation-requesting-new-activation-codes

*Reactivation*
_This page is about reactivating software licenses that have been stored locally on hard disk in the so called Soft-eLicenser. Licenses on a USB-eLicenser (dongle, key) cannot and don't need to be reactivated. If the USB-eLicenser holding the corresponding license is connected, the licensed software can be used right after the installation.

*What is a reactivation?*
Reactivation means further activation of a software license that already has been activated before. A reactivation takes place after a new installation and consists of *two steps*:_

_Requesting a new activation code for a registered license via a MySteinberg account._
_Activating the software license which means downloading the license by entering the new activation code in the eLicenser Control Center on your computer._
_*Why is it necessary to reactivate licenses?*
Reactivations are required because in general, activation codes can only be used once to download a software license. If a further activation of a new software installation is necessary - for instance, in case the operating system has been reinstalled or you've switched to a new machine - new activation codes for licenses registered with a MySteinberg account can be requested via the reactivation process._

So I was curious and tried this: I turned off my main PC (containing the soft eLicenser Iconica license). I thought "Let's say that this PC is dead and will never be able to start again". So I go to my wife's PC, I enter (for the first time there) my online Steinberg account. They allow my to reactivate my Iconica so I can use it in another PC. Simple as that. They send you a new activation code, so you can activate it in any new machine (while at the same time disabling the previous one).

The conclusion (for me) is this: *iLok*, *eLicenser*, etc., are just tools. I wouldn't say the iLok is a "better app" than eLicenser. It's the companies that sell the plug-ins and the sample libraries that decide what happens if your laptop or MacBook or Internet Connection or USB-dongle dies.


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## Theladur (Mar 8, 2021)

Geomir said:


> ... soft eLicenser (machine-based), and it works fine even without Internet.
> 
> But unlike iLok's libraries, if your machine dies you can reactivate your licenses in a new one no matter what. You don't have to do anything beforehand.
> ...


This!
I actually thought that Ilok machine based activation works like that, until this weekend when I figured out that it doesn't.

I have an UR44 audio interface from Steinberg which comes with an FX software suite. These effects are also activated with the "soft eLicenser" in a machine based manner. But when you switch to a different computer, you can simply (re-)activate the software on the new machine, without the need to deactivate it in your old computer. When seperating my private stuff like gaming from music related stuff by setting up a new OS on a different harddisk, I actually did this with this FX suite, and it worked without problems.

I wonder why Ilok doesn't use the same activation scheme for machine based licenses.
Of course, with this mechanism, one could abuse this licencing scheme by activating the license on a new computer, but keep using it on the old one (by keeping the old computer offline all the time, i.e. no updates on the software).
But the current implementation (you have to ask the software developers for a new activation key if your disk or machine dies) can be abused as well, in the same manner (i.e. you can say your machine died, even though it didn't, ask for a new key, activate this on a new machine, but keep using the old one; Actually, if they don't deactivate the old license (which the soft eLicenser does as far as I know), this current implementation is even worse, as the computer with the old license is still able to update the software, and doesn't need to be kept offline).


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## Geomir (Mar 8, 2021)

Theladur said:


> This!
> I actually thought that Ilok machine based activation works like that, until this weekend when I figured out that it doesn't.
> 
> I have an UR44 audio interface from Steinberg which comes with an FX software suite. These effects are also activated with the "soft eLicenser" in a machine based manner. But when you switch to a different computer, you can simply (re-)activate the software on the new machine, without the need to deactivate it in your old computer. When seperating my private stuff like gaming from music related stuff by setting up a new OS on a different harddisk, I actually did this with this FX suite, and it worked without problems.
> ...


In the end there are 2 things that are not so compatible with each other:

Customer friendliness - Easy of use - Lack of frustration VS Level of Anti-Piracy Protection

All companies that sell software must choose one of these two, or something in between. The results sometimes are mostly punishing for the legal users, while the pirates anyway will find their way into cracking the software.


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Mar 10, 2021)

Ben said:


> You can not register licenses to the iLok yet, but you will get* free *iLok replacement licenses as soon as we finished the transition.


Ben, may I kindly remind you that we _already paid _for said licenses to use your products. You're just changing the support platform (dongle or cloud) for them. Just a little distinction I felt needed.


----------



## Dietz (Mar 10, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Ben, may I kindly remind you that we _already paid _for said licenses to use your products. You're just changing the support platform (dongle or cloud) for them. Just a little distinction I felt needed.


If you set the red marks differently, all is good: 

"you will get* free iLok replacement licenses*"


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 10, 2021)

Dietz said:


> If you set the red marks differently, all is good:
> 
> "you will get* free iLok replacement licenses*"


I'm kind of with Tatiana on this. It does sound like "Hey we are taking away your licenses. But don't worry. We won't charge you for the new ones even though we could!"


----------



## Ben (Mar 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm kind of with Tatiana on this. It does sound like "Hey we are taking away your licenses. But don't worry. We won't charge you for the new ones even though we could!"


Why not just read it as intended?
We wanted to share this information as early as possible, and answer as many questions as possible already in the anouncement.


----------



## NYC Composer (Mar 10, 2021)

Maybe we’re getting EXTRA licenses??

Hmm. Perhaps not.


----------



## EgM (Mar 10, 2021)

NYC Composer said:


> Maybe we’re getting EXTRA licenses??
> 
> Hmm. Perhaps not.





Ben said:


> • You will NOT be asked to return or delete any of your existing licenses on the eLicenser.
> 
> • CONTINUED SERVICE: You’ll be able to continue to use the ViennaKey/eLicenser USB key as well as the eLicenser Control Center for as long as it is working on your computers’ operating systems. Your licenses are safe and perpetual. Steinberg will keep the eLicenser license server available as long as possible


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## Evans (Mar 10, 2021)

Gosh, some of you folk are picky.


----------



## NYC Composer (Mar 10, 2021)

...and if eLicenser doesn’t exist?

Steinberg-“for as long as possible.”

Still, I’m cool. Anything that moves the ball forward is ok with me, especially if it includes licenses that are bought and should be perpetual from then on, not specifically relying on an unreliable piece of plastic.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 10, 2021)

Ben said:


> Why not just read it as intended?
> We wanted to share this information as early as possible, and answer as many questions as possible already in the anouncement.


I'm just giving you a hard time about the "free". I'm quite happy to have you replace my elicenser license with an iLok license.


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## Noeticus (Mar 11, 2021)

My dream is that VSL announces that because of all this... we will be able to install
our VSL libraries on TWO computers using the same single (paid for it only once) license.


----------



## Dietz (Mar 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm just giving you a hard time about the "free".


I bet that the very first posting after the same message _without_ the term "free" would have been, "But do we have to pay for it?!?!?".


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 11, 2021)

Dietz said:


> I bet that the very first posting after the same message _without_ the term "free" would have been, "But do we have to pay for it?!?!?".


In a way you do have to pay for it. If you only have an eLicenser, it will force you to buy an iLok if you don't want to be connected to the cloud.


----------



## Ben (Mar 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> In a way you do have to pay for it. If you only have an eLicenser, it will force you to buy an iLok if you don't want to be connected to the cloud.


🤦‍♂️ oh boy, here we go again...

How about making some music instead of complaining about non-existing problems?


----------



## Noeticus (Mar 11, 2021)

Ben said:


> 🤦‍♂️ oh boy, here we go again...
> 
> How about making some music instead of complaining about non-existing problems?


So we do not need to buy an iLok if we are not using the cloud option? 
Sorry if this has already been covered.


----------



## Ben (Mar 11, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> So we do not need to buy an iLok if we are not using the cloud option? Sorry if this has already been covered.


You can use the iLok Cloud or put move the licenses to an iLok USB key.


----------



## Noeticus (Mar 11, 2021)

Ben said:


> You can use the iLok Cloud or put move the licenses to an iLok USB key.


Sorry, again, but the real question is do we have to BUY this iLok USB key? 
Or will VSL be mailing us new ones... ahh, for free?

Sorry if these seem like stupid questions.


----------



## Ben (Mar 11, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> Sorry, again, but the real question is do we have to BUY this iLok USB key? Or will VSL be mailing us new ones... ah, for free?
> 
> Sorry if these seem like stupid questions.


If you want to use an iLok key you have to buy one yourself.


----------



## Noeticus (Mar 11, 2021)

If VSL is forcing our licenses onto iLok, wouldn't it make sense to make the customers happy and mail them a free iLok (if they don't already own one)? 

If I was VSL this is what I would do. 

Getting a free iLok is nothing compared to the labor charge that VSL will not be compensating us for in dealing with this licensing paradigm shift.

Again, sorry if this seems trivial and irritating.


----------



## rrichard63 (Mar 11, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> the labor charge that VSL will not be compensating us for in dealing with this licensing paradigm shift.


For me personally, iLok is a lot more user friendly than eLicenser. For example, you can download a spreadsheet of all of your iLok data; you can't do that with eLicenser. Made a big difference to me when I had to replace a motherboard and needed to document everything that was installed on the old machine.


----------



## Noeticus (Mar 11, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> For me personally, iLok is a lot more user friendly than eLicenser. For example, you can download a spreadsheet of all of your iLok data; you can't do that with eLicenser. Made a big difference to me when I had to replace a motherboard and needed to document everything that was installed on the old machine.


Yes, I agree. Thanks!


----------



## Geomir (Mar 11, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> My dream is that VSL announces that because of all this... we will be able to install
> our VSL libraries on TWO computers using the same single (paid for it only once) license.


I understand your dream, that would be perfect! But it has nothing to do with technology itself.

An example: EastWest and UVI both use the exact same copy protection system: machine-based iLok. EastWest allows only one installation per bought license, but UVI allows 3 installations at the same time in 3 different "machines" (yes I also find this extremely generous)!


----------



## Casiquire (Mar 11, 2021)

Hang on. You're not *forced* to buy a new iLok. If I'm reading this right, you can keep your elicenser if you want. So what's the problem?

I'm going to copy paste this entire thread into my coffee table scrap book titled Devs Can't Ever Win


----------



## Nimrod7 (Mar 11, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> If I'm reading this right, you can keep your elicenser if you want. So what's the problem?


That elicenser software (which will deprecated) will eventually become incompatible with future OS updates.


----------



## rrichard63 (Mar 11, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> you can keep your elicenser if you want. So what's the problem?


"Forever" means for as long as Steinberg feels that it can keep the servers running.


----------



## Casiquire (Mar 11, 2021)

Sure, but we were already encouraged to buy a new one every two years anyway. So after the two years, instead of buying a new elicenser, buy an iLok instead, and you're no worse off.

I'm not sure what servers have to do with anything. You can have a totally offline system and just leave the elicenser plugged in until it fails if you want


----------



## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> "Forever" means for as long as Steinberg feels that it can keep the servers running.



It'll probably still work on Windows in 2027, there's no need for internet access to access your current VSL libraries right now with a physical dongle, just need the eLicenser Control Center. 

On Mac? Will mostly not be long after they kill the server.

But like @Casiquire said, you'll have your free ilok additional licenses.


----------



## rrichard63 (Mar 11, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> You can have a totally offline system and just leave the elicenser plugged in until it fails if you want


Maybe that's right, but I'm not certain. This only matters if you have some reason for wanting to keep your licenses on eLicensers rather than moving them to iLoks. The only possible reason is $30 or so. iLok is just better.


----------



## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Maybe that's right, but I'm not certain. This only matters if you have some reason for wanting to keep your licenses on eLicensers rather than moving them to iLoks. The only possible reason is $30 or so. iLok is just better.



Edit: Not personally directed at you Richard 

If you've been in the business as a composer or engineer, you've had an iLok since like forever. What the hell am I saying?! We ALL have an iLok and eLicenser! 

Can we all just start being real now?


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 11, 2021)

EgM said:


> Edit: Not personally directed at you Richard
> 
> If you've been in the business as a composer or engineer, you've had an iLok since like forever. What the hell am I saying?! We ALL have an iLok and eLicenser!
> 
> Can we all just start being real now?


Except for a few here who don't believe in any dongles whatsoever. Note: this is not me. I love my iLok. I am happy they are moving over.


----------



## markit (Mar 11, 2021)




----------



## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

markit said:


>


Haha


----------



## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

I'll just quote myself at this point, lol


Can we all just start being real now?


----------



## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Except for a few here who don't believe in any dongles whatsoever. Note: this is not me. I love my iLok. I am happy they are moving over.



Then cloud/machine auth option is available.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 11, 2021)

EgM said:


> Then cloud/machine auth option is available.


Hopefully that is acceptable. Though frankly, if they don't like dongles, do they have any VSL libraries?


----------



## GtrString (Mar 11, 2021)

Newfound respect for VSL!


----------



## juliandoe (Mar 11, 2021)

I believe that developers should come together to find a common license management system. Also one download manager for all the plugins/library. 

Just like it has been in the past with MIDI.

Also, I believe that a system that allows demoing the sample libraries would be great


----------



## Nimrod7 (Mar 12, 2021)

juliandoe said:


> I believe that developers should come together to find a common license management system. Also one download manager for all the plugins/library.


1 Year Later:


----------



## Theladur (Mar 12, 2021)

I much prefer vodoo protection:


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (Mar 12, 2021)

markit said:


>


I think it's not about the money rather than the confidence in a company and the money I invested in this company no matter how much it is.


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Mar 21, 2021)

Well, I luckily saw this thread right prior to hitting the checkout button on VSL's website - was going to buy Jazz Drums but, now I will wait until the iLk Cloud feature is available


----------



## Ben (Mar 21, 2021)

ChromeCrescendo said:


> Well, I luckily saw this thread right prior to hitting the checkout button on VSL's website - was going to buy Jazz Drums but, now I will wait until the iLk Cloud feature is available


There is no reason to wait - if you need an eLicenser: It's currently on sale on our website + we give you a 20€ voucher 
And of course you'll get replacement licenses for free as soon as these are available for the iLok system.


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Mar 21, 2021)

Ben said:


> There is no reason to wait - if you need an eLicenser: It's currently on sale on our website + we give you a 20€ voucher
> And of course you'll get replacement licenses for free as soon as these are available for the iLok system.


Thanks - how long does it take for the eLicenser to ship?

Also, is the €20 deducted from the order automatically or is the €20 voucher only applicable to the next order?

So, after accounting for the eLicenser at €13, it is really only a €7 voucher?


----------



## Ben (Mar 21, 2021)

ChromeCrescendo said:


> Thanks - how long does it take for the eLicenser to ship?


I'm not really familiar with our shipping procedure, but if I remember correctly it will be shipped with UPS standard shipping, which should take ~4-7 business days.
If you need more detailed information, please contact my sales colleagues at [email protected]



ChromeCrescendo said:


> Also, is the $20 deducted from the order automatically or is the $20 voucher only applicable to the next order?


For the next order.


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva (Mar 21, 2021)

Dietz said:


> If you set the red marks differently, all is good:
> "you will get* free iLok replacement licenses*"


Haha! I missed your reply. Funny, but you could also read it this way and then all is even better:
"you will get* free iLok *replacement licenses"


----------



## Pier (Mar 21, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Pc went up in smoke? No prob, login to License Manager on the new PC and transfer the license. License management is the #1 best feature.


AFAIK if your PC went up in smoke, those licenses would be lost forever just as if you had lost/damaged your hardware iLok.


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## Shredoverdrive (Mar 22, 2021)

Pier said:


> AFAIK if your PC went up in smoke, those licenses would be lost forever just as if you had lost/damaged your hardware iLok.


No, you can ask for a licence reset from the companies you got it from. I once had a laptop crash with no possibility to recover my machine ilok licences. I asked for a reset and got everything back.


----------



## Nimrod7 (Mar 22, 2021)

ChromeCrescendo said:


> So, after accounting for the eLicenser at €13, it is really only a €7 voucher?



Profit!


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Mar 22, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> Profit!


Although, not sure what the shipping cost is + the cost of setting up the eLicenser and then setting it up again once iLk Cloud is available

I'll forego the €7 profit lol


----------



## Pier (Mar 22, 2021)

Shredoverdrive said:


> No, you can ask for a licence reset from the companies you got it from. I once had a laptop crash with no possibility to recover my machine ilok licences. I asked for a reset and got everything back.


Do all manufacturers that use iLok do that?

What about VSL?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 22, 2021)

Pier said:


> Do all manufacturers that use iLok do that?
> 
> What about VSL?


I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can just go into the iLok manager and drag the machine license to a new location (cloud, dongle, different machine).


----------



## Pier (Mar 22, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can just go into the iLok manager and drag the machine license to a new location (cloud, dongle, different machine).


I don't know, but if that was the case, why would UVI have this support page?









My Computer was Lost/Stolen/Broken/Repaired/Resold, how to Retrieve my Lost/Stuck Activations for UVI Products?


It is possible for certain changes to cause your computer to be seen by iLok servers as a new computer. When licenses are activated to a system, they are stored on that computer. There is no way to...




support.uvi.net


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 22, 2021)

iLok offers ZDT and TLC for this reason. It’s pretty cheap.


----------



## Shredoverdrive (Mar 22, 2021)

Pier said:


> Do all manufacturers that use iLok do that?
> 
> What about VSL?


EW, UVI and others, yes. VSL? Ask them, the service doesn't exist yet but I can't imagine why they wouldn't.


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## Shredoverdrive (Mar 22, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can just go into the iLok manager and drag the machine license to a new location (cloud, dongle, different machine).


Yes but only for licences on your cloud. If they're on a lost or broken unit, you have to request a reset. That is what I did and everything went smoothly although it took a few days for some companies. That's why the zero delay thingie exists , for people in a hurry. I must say UVI and EW where very quick, though. Kudos to them.


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## Robert_G (Mar 22, 2021)

It's been awhile since I've had an EW Composer Cloud subscription, and if I remember correctly, the license was on the Ilok Cloud, but it allowed you to work offline because it only required an online check once a month or so. *I really hope VSL takes the same approach. *

The ultimate scenario would to be able to have the safety of having the licenses on the cloud, without the stress of not being able to work when your internet connection fails (which still happens unfortunately from time to time)


----------



## Shredoverdrive (Mar 22, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> It's been awhile since I've had an EW Composer Cloud subscription, but if I remember correctly, the license was on the Ilok Cloud, but it allowed you to work offline because it only required an online check once a month or so. *I really hope VSL takes the same approach. *
> 
> The ultimate scenario would to be able to have the safety of having the licenses on the cloud, without the stress of not being able to work when your internet connection fails (which still happens unfortunately from time to time)


Nope. It doesn't work like this. When your license is on the cloud, you can't use it. You have to transfer it on your computer. Takes 30 seconds. But then you can work offline. All machine ilok work this way.


----------



## Robert_G (Mar 22, 2021)

Shredoverdrive said:


> Nope. It doesn't work like this. When your license is on the cloud, you can't use it. You have to transfer it on your computer. Takes 30 seconds. But then you can work offline. All machine ilok work this way.


Yes, it was that way with EW CC. But if my internet went down, I could still use the libraries.


----------



## Robert_G (Mar 22, 2021)

Shredoverdrive said:


> Nope. It doesn't work like this. When your license is on the cloud, you can't use it. You have to transfer it on your computer. Takes 30 seconds. But then you can work offline. All machine ilok work this way.


I just realized that doesn't solve the problem if your computer dies. I think with a little thought that they could work this out.


----------



## PaulieDC (Mar 23, 2021)

Pier said:


> AFAIK if your PC went up in smoke, those licenses would be lost forever just as if you had lost/damaged your hardware iLok.


Here's hoping you yank your iLok out before the PC melts.


----------



## Aldunate (Mar 23, 2021)

Are there plans for iLok Machine authorization?


----------



## jiten (Mar 23, 2021)

Very happy to hear this news, will simplify things on my end for sure. Will definitely be revisiting some of the recent VSL offerings again in the coming months. 

Seems there may be some confusion on how the various iLok options work. You basically have 3 options, and it is up to each company/developer to choose which options they want to support:

(1) *Dongle *-> Self-explanatory

(2) *Machine *-> You transfer the licence onto your machine, probably tied to the harddrive in some way. So if the HD or computer dies, as far as I know, you have to go to each individual developer and ask for new licenses. Sounds like a massive PITA so I never use this option. Good to hear that others have had painless experiences with developers getting this sorted. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable taking that risk though. It is up to each developer whether or not to issue replacement licenses on a case-by-case basis, but it will be huge pain regardless if you have a ton of licenses spanning many developers.

(3) *Cloud *-> License remains on iLok's servers and isn't transferred locally anywhere. According to iLok's website (https://www.paceap.com/pace-ilok-cloud.html), this does in fact require continuous internet connection. Their website clearly sates "If the internet connection is lost an error message will appear after a few minutes..." So it seems like the cloud option might actually check pretty frequently. I've personally never used this option either so can't really comment on it further.

The last thing worth mentioning, is the* ZDT (zero down-time) + TLC (theft/loss coverage)* protection which costs $30 per year per dongle and covers all licenses on that dongle. Last I checked, this protection ONLY applies to option #1 (the dongle). Unless something has changed since I last asked about it a couple of years ago, it does NOT cover machine licenses (and is unnecessary for cloud licenses).

If you enable *TLC, *it basically puts 'temporary' 3-month licenses on your iLok dongle and requires you to sync to their servers any time before the 'deadline' to refresh them for another 3mo. This allows iLok to immediately issue you new licenses without contacting any developers if you lose or have your iLok stolen since those old licenses are guaranteed to expire. I beleive it is also one-time use. I.e. you'd have to buy the $30 protection again on the replacement dongle.

Apologies if people already knew all of that. I found it not clearly explained when I was new to iLok so figured I'd share in case others were confused.


----------



## Robert_G (Mar 23, 2021)

jiten said:


> (2) *Machine *-> You transfer the licence onto your machine, probably tied to the harddrive in some way. So if the HD or computer dies, as far as I know, you have to go to each individual developer and ask for new licenses. Sounds like a massive PITA so I never use this option. Good to hear that others have had painless experiences with developers getting this sorted. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable taking that risk though. It is up to each developer whether or not to issue replacement licenses on a case-by-case basis, but it will be huge pain regardless if you have a ton of licenses spanning many developers.


I guess Eastwest ILOK was machine based, so I wonder if anyone here has any experience with Eastwest as to what they did when their computer fried.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 23, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> I guess Eastwest ILOK was machine based, so I wonder if anyone here has any experience with Eastwest as to what they did when their computer fried.


Not true. You have the option of using the dongle or machine licenses (I have a combination of both). A colleague had to have his machine licenses reset, and EW did it the same day via EW chat support.


----------



## Robert_G (Mar 23, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Not true. You have the option of using the dongle or machine licenses (I have a combination of both). A colleague had to have his machine licenses reset, and EW did it the same day via EW chat support.


Ok. I didn't have an ILOK dongle with my CC Plus subscription so mine would have been machine based. I did not know you could do both. Sounds like a good insurance policy.

I wonder if VSL will do this.

Edit: Or are you saying you had some licenses on dongle and some on the machine? In that case....back to square one.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 23, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> Ok. I didn't have an ILOK dongle with my CC Plus subscription so mine would have been machine based. I did not know you could do both. Sounds like a good insurance policy.
> 
> I wonder if VSL will do this.


I sure hope so! Their elicenser policy is what deterred me for so long. My credit card will soon hate me.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 23, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> Ok. I didn't have an ILOK dongle with my CC Plus subscription so mine would have been machine based. I did not know you could do both. Sounds like a good insurance policy.
> 
> I wonder if VSL will do this.
> 
> Edit: Or are you saying you had some licenses on dongle and some on the machine? In that case....back to square one.


Sounds like VSL is Dongle or Cloud only at this point.


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Mar 23, 2021)

I use iLok Cloud but, am wondering if I should actually switch to an iLok dongle just in case my Internet ever goes down


----------



## Robert_G (Mar 23, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Sounds like VSL is Dongle or Cloud only at this point.


That's unfortunate.


----------



## Robert_G (Mar 23, 2021)

So I'm trying to understand this best I can.

As of right now with VSL upcoming ILOK policy, its either:

1. ILOK Cloud which will stop your libraries from working anytime your internet connection goes down, or
2. Another dongle which isn't much different than an elicenser.

Unless I'm missing something..........


----------



## jiten (Mar 23, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> Ok. I didn't have an ILOK dongle with my CC Plus subscription so mine would have been machine based. I did not know you could do both. Sounds like a good insurance policy.
> 
> I wonder if VSL will do this.


Yup, I was never on CC, but my EW licenses allow activation on either dongle or machine.

Good to hear accounts from @Jeremy Spencer and @Shredoverdrive on EW's quick resolution in case it is ever necessary.

I have licenses across 10-15 or so developers, so I would never go the machine-license route personally. The thought of having to coordinate getting replacements in the event of HD or computer failure scares me!

Btw, you can see which options each developer supports from the iLok license manager very easily, the symbols on the left indicate respectively: dongle gen2+, dongle gen 1, machine, cloud. Each developer does it differently (but all offer the dongle). As an aside, I wish all developers would show those 4 icons whenever they state they're on iLok. Would make it super easy interpret with minimal confusion what the activation options are.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 23, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> So I'm trying to understand this best I can.
> 
> As of right now with VSL upcoming ILOK policy, its either:
> 
> ...


Well, with the elicenser version, if you didn't have the VSL insurance policy, you were hooped if anything happened to the dongle. Without he insurance, you needed to buy the licenses again (although I think some circumstances allowed a certain discount). So if you had $3000 worth of VSL libraries on that dongle, and someone steals it, you're out another $3000 without the insurance (or portion of).

With iLok, you don't need to re-purchase the licenses again if something happens to the dongle or your machine.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 23, 2021)

jiten said:


> Yup, I was never on CC, but my EW licenses allow activation on either dongle or machine.
> 
> Good to hear accounts from @Jeremy Spencer and @Shredoverdrive on EW's quick resolution in case it is ever necessary.
> 
> ...


Is that showing that Ozone 9 Advanced is not available for machine license? I have my copy on machine license.


----------



## Robert_G (Mar 23, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> With iLok, you don't need to re-purchase the licenses again if something happens to the dongle or your machine.


Maybe I missed it, but did VSL confirm they will be doing this. Also what is it that makes the ILOK dongle different from the Elicenser that we would get our licenses back for free?


----------



## jiten (Mar 23, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, with the elicenser version, if you didn't have the VSL insurance policy, you were hooped if anything happened to the dongle. Without he insurance, you needed to buy the licenses again (although I think some circumstances allowed a certain discount). So if you had $3000 worth of VSL libraries on that dongle, and someone steals it, you're out another $3000 without the insurance (or portion of).
> 
> With iLok, you don't need to re-purchase the licenses again if something happens to the dongle or your machine.


This is exactly the big advantage from my perspective.

It certianly helps make VSL products feel more accessible for me as everything is all under one ecosystem that I have relative peace-of-mind over with ZDT/TLC. I didn't own enough VSL products to justify their separate insurance policy, but I'm already paying ZDT anyway. I guess if you aren't on the iLok ecosystem at all, the always-connected option may not feel like a great compromise. I do feel like it is a step forward though.

Will also echo the sentiments earlier about the license management / transfer processes being a lot less painful in iLok vs elicenser.



Jeremy Spencer said:


> Is that showing that Ozone 9 Advanced is not available for machine license? I have my copy on machine license.


Good catch! I think if you go through the izotope portal, you can do a machine license/activation. That's actually what I've done (just checked). It looks like izotope just handles the machine activations themselves through their own app, not through iLok (so iLok only shows dongle option available).


----------



## Nimrod7 (Mar 23, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> Maybe I missed it, but did VSL confirm they will be doing this. Also what is it that makes the ILOK dongle different from the Elicenser that we would get our licenses back for free?


I don't believe they confirmed.
But I will be interested to see how that plays out between VSL & Pace, since in their terms they don't seem to exclude any developers if you're covered with ZDT.



https://www.ilok.com/#!zdt-terms


----------



## jiten (Mar 23, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> I don't believe they confirmed.
> But I will be interested to see how that plays out between VSL & Pace, since in their terms they don't seem to exclude any developers if you're covered with ZDT.
> 
> 
> ...


Just to be clear, my understanding is that ZDT just gives you 14-day temporary licenses in the event of your dongle failing/breaking/being lost/stolen so you can continue working without delays.

You still need to purchase or have a spare iLok to download those temporary licenses and the onus is still on you to actually reach out to each developer to get permenant replacement licenses. Then it's up to each developer to decide on whether to offer those replacements and under what terms on a case-by-case basis. If the donge was just broken or died, I think you can also just mail it in within that 14 days and if iLok can recover the licenses, you wouldn't need to go through the hassle of contacting developers.

There is an additional service called TLC that is included when you purchase ZDT, but you have to explicitly turn it 'on' for your iLok in the license manager. That will convert all your licenses on the dongle to temporary 3-month licenses (what I described in my earlier post). With this enabled, you _don't_ have to reach out to any developers, mail anything in, etc. and iLok will just give you permenant replacement licenses within a few days (you still need to have or purchase a new iLok though). 

I would assume if VSL is on iLok, all this would apply for them too.

It's not perfect, but TLC enabled is the way to go IMO.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 23, 2021)

jiten said:


> Just to be clear, my understanding is that ZDT just gives you 14-day temporary licenses in the event of your dongle failing/breaking/being lost/stolen so you can continue working without delays.
> 
> You still need to purchase or have a spare iLok to download those temporary licenses and the onus is still on you to actually reach out to each developer to get permenant replacement licenses. Then it's up to each developer to decide on whether to offer those replacements and under what terms on a case-by-case basis. If the donge was just broken or died, I think you can also just mail it in within that 14 days and if iLok can recover the licenses, you wouldn't need to go through the hassle of contacting developers.
> 
> ...


What does ZDT and TLC cost together for a year?


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## jiten (Mar 23, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> What does ZDT and TLC cost together for a year?


$30 per year per dongle. And if you need to use it, I think you need to purchase it again for the new dongle.

Personally, I feel like it should be included with no charge for every dongle purchased for the end consumer and instead baked into the cost structure of iLok's agreement with developers (and eventually priced into the final products offered by developers), but that's probably a conversation for some other time.


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## Aldunate (Mar 23, 2021)

I think VSL said that they will support Cloud and Dongle authorization. 
That's why I'm asking if they have plans on Machine authorization


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## Michael Antrum (Mar 23, 2021)

Funny that VSL got roundly criticised for their insurance policy for the e-licencer, but I never heard anything mentioned about ZDT and ELC even thought the cost was the same.....


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 23, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Funny that VSL got roundly criticised for their insurance policy for the e-licencer, but I never heard anything mentioned about ZDT and ELC even thought the cost was the same.....


VSL charges 70 Euros. And if you don’t buy it, you’re screwed.


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## Michael Antrum (Mar 23, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> VSL charges 70 Euros. And if you don’t buy it, you’re screwed.


its for 2 years....


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## Scottyb (Mar 23, 2021)

Wooohoooo!!!!! Thanks so much for doing this!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 23, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> its for 2 years....


Ahh, good point!


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## Michael Antrum (Mar 23, 2021)

You know, now that VSL has announced this move, the bi-annual VSL calling each other names thread will become defunct.

We’re going to have to find another subject to beat each other over the head with. We cannot just argue about Spitfire alone......


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## Virtuoso (Mar 23, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Funny that VSL got roundly criticised for their insurance policy for the e-licencer, but I never heard anything mentioned about ZDT and ELC even thought the cost was the same.....


I can't speak for anyone else but my objection to their policy was that, if your laptop is stolen with the dongle in the bag, your only recourse is to buy all your VSL licenses again (at a 'generous' 50% discount). This would cost _thousands_ for me, for what is essentially a simple electronic replacement.

Yes I understand that, if their policy wasn't quite so draconian, there is a possibility that some may abuse the system, but it should really fall on VSL to come up with a better way of protecting their products that isn't so punishing to legitimate customers. I don't know of any other vendor that has such a customer-hostile policy in place. Hopefully this changes with the move to iLok.


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## Michael Antrum (Mar 23, 2021)

I had the same view, but when the insurance policy that replaced all your products at no additional cost became available, then VSL became viable for me. Prior to that, the only product I owned was VEPro....

edit: I have a strong suspicion that if VSL handle this transition to ilok well, then they will win over many new customers who have previously held back. (Of course they’ll probably do something annoying.)


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## DocMidi657 (Mar 23, 2021)

Two Questions regarding ilok if someone can help:

1. If you go Ilok "Cloud Authorization" how many computers can you authorize?

2. If you go Ilok dongle and the dongle breaks or you lose it what happens?
Thanks!
Dave


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## MusiquedeReve (Apr 10, 2021)

I only had two effects plugins that I used with iLok Cloud - however, I recently purchased the iLok 3 in anticipation pf making some purchases from VSL once they switch to iLok -- while I realize I could purchase VSL and store the license in iLok Cloud, I decided to purchase the iLok 3 dongle as, inside my Mac Pro there is a "hidden" USB-A slot inside the machine. As such, I opened up my Mac Pro and, upon wondering how all the dust got in there despite Apple claiming no filter was needed as the fans were powerful enough to prevent dust buildup, had a most satisfying two minutes blowing compressed air at all the dust - so, one benefit of installing the dongle inside my machine was that I know have a dust free Mac Pro (well, at least until it builds up again)


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## Nimrod7 (Apr 10, 2021)

ChromeCrescendo said:


> I decided to purchase the iLok 3 dongle as, inside my Mac Pro there is a "hidden" USB-A slot inside the machine. As such, I opened up my Mac Pro and, upon wondering how all the dust got in there despite Apple claiming no filter was needed as the fans were powerful enough to prevent dust buildup,


There is a tiny dual USB adapter I purchased to be used in that hidden slot. That way I manage to have both ilok and syncrosoft key hidden (I think I stole that from Neil Parfitt) 

regarding the dust, I opened the Mac after almost a year and not even a dust particle in there. I was surprised actually when you mentioned there was dust.


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## MusiquedeReve (Apr 10, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> There is a tiny dual USB adapter I purchased to be used in that hidden slot. That way I manage to have both ilok and syncrosoft key hidden (I thing I stole that from Neil Purfitt)
> 
> regarding the dust, I opened the Mac after almost a year and not even a dust particle in there. I was surprised actually when you mentioned there was dust.


I also got that tip from Neil's video

Yeah I was shocked there was so much dust - perhaps I should go in once a month and open it up - but, that means unplugging everything in order to open the case as I have the tower, not the rack version


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## Mucusman (Apr 10, 2021)

I've taken a new look at VSL now that they have announced iLok support. I just didn't want to mess with _another _USB dongle taking up a precious USB port. I'll wait patiently until the unroll iLok use before I seriously consider my first VSL purchase. I do imagine I'm not alone in this.


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## Tremendouz (Apr 10, 2021)

Not sure if it's been mentioned but I'm wondering why host-based authorization isn't an option. I don't use dongles out of principle but Cloud is unreliable due to semi-frequent outages (project crashes and becomes impossible to open without disabling all FX)


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## rrichard63 (Apr 10, 2021)

Tremendouz said:


> I'm wondering why host-based authorization isn't an option.


Host-based authorization is easier for pirates to defeat. Dongle-based and cloud-based copy protection aren't impossible crack -- just significantly harder.


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## easyrider (Apr 10, 2021)

I really want to dabble with VSL....but that website gives me anxiety....I just don’t know where to start...😫


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## Fa (Apr 10, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I really want to dabble with VSL....but that website gives me anxiety....I just don’t know where to start...😫


Well, watching some videos! Sometime (...well even often... LOL ) they are a bit funny, but anyway always pretty informative.


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## dzilizzi (Apr 10, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I really want to dabble with VSL....but that website gives me anxiety....I just don’t know where to start...😫


Walk away from the VSL. We can't have you breaking your sobriety, um, I mean buying libraries. The rest of us will lose all hope it is possible. 

psst...the Special Editions are a great place to start. But you didn't hear that from me. ....


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## Robert_G (Apr 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Walk away from the VSL. We can't have you breaking your sobriety, um, I mean buying libraries. The rest of us will lose all hope it is possible.
> 
> psst...the Special Editions are a great place to start. But you didn't hear that from me. ....


I made the dabble mistake. My wallet has now disowned me.


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## Ronny D. Ana (Apr 11, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> [..]Yes I understand that, if their policy wasn't quite so draconian, there is a possibility that some may abuse the system[..]


That is simply not true!
Audioappz, warez, crack teams do not care about any dongles or other kind of software protection. They just deliver the software you want, sometimes even before release date.
It is us plain customers who have to pay for additional costs and other resources or issues regarding those (imho absolute sensless) protections. It is the same like sitting at the flicks or at home watching a movie you bought: You have to watch commercials you have to watch teasers and on top of that you have to read or listen to: “You are not allowed to copy the movie, record it or use your cam or whatsoever!!!” WTF? I did not copy the movie I bought it! Why do you bother me? Bully the people who copy movies - please!
People who watch copied movies do not have to watch commercials, teasers and especially they do not have to watch the requests "Do not copy the movie...! They have a fine high quality copy of a movie without any indoctrination and can enjoy it from the beginning untill the end.
People who use cracked software do not have to invest additional money or other resources like additional installations and additional trouble shooting and additional research in how can I protect my investment when it is lost and so on.



Virtuoso said:


> [..]but it should really fall on VSL to come up with a better way of protecting their products that isn't so punishing to legitimate customers.[..]


This is true!
But still: Imho dongle protection is senseless regarding protection. It makes sense regarding marketing because it is an efficient way to earn more money.



Virtuoso said:


> [..]I don't know of any other vendor that has such a customer-hostile policy in place[..]


I love VSL products, but this is regrettably true also!
The hope remains for a successful resolution


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## easyrider (Apr 11, 2021)

I agree that dongles are a waste of time considering how easy the crackers remove the protection.

WRAPWARDEN/iLOK, FUSiON/iLOK, METAFORTRESS all just fun and games for the crackers.

I would argue that sales would actually go up for legit licences if developers removed the Ilok.


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## novaburst (Apr 28, 2021)

mussnig said:


> am using iLok Cloud for my Seventh Heaven License. Yes, this means that you need internet access (at least when you open the project) but I have had some moments when my internet connection would fail and I could still work for some time (I


you only need interne when you are registering a product once the product has been registered you cant turn your internet off its not needed


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## mussnig (Apr 28, 2021)

novaburst said:


> you only need interne when you are registering a product once the product has been registered you cant turn your internet off its not needed



Afaik this depends on the product (I'm not sure though).

Anyways, I've worked on a project and at some point (after already working on the project for some time) the connection would fail. After some time I would get problems and couldn't resume working (and I didn't open any new plugin or something like that). So at least with some plugins, you really need the connection - not only when you start-up the project or load the plugin.


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## Tronam (Apr 29, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I agree that dongles are a waste of time considering how easy the crackers remove the protection.
> 
> WRAPWARDEN/iLOK, FUSiON/iLOK, METAFORTRESS all just fun and games for the crackers.
> 
> I would argue that sales would actually go up for legit licences if developers removed the Ilok.


The purpose of copy protection, like the weak locks on our homes' doors, is to introduce enough friction to discourage casual theft. Dongles achieve this and attach at least some semblance of physical ownership to a digital good. Obviously those with enough determination will find ways around the system (not always though, 12 years uncompromised for Reason), but developers are betting that the majority won't put in the effort and will do the right thing by purchasing the tools they use. Most decent people understand that if everyone steals the content they love, there will be no more content to steal in the first place.


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## ptram (Apr 29, 2021)

Tronam said:


> Most decent people understand that if everyone steals the content they love, there will be no more content to steal in the first place.


Maybe most, but not all. While looking around for info and tutorial, it is not uncommon to see cracks for professional software offered, these days, for 25 bucks by the developer. Yet, there is someone cracking it and others downloading it.

Paolo


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## novaburst (Apr 29, 2021)

mussnig said:


> the connection would fail. After some time I would get problems and couldn't resume working


That's very strange, I do know if the app needs an update and your on line it will start to get a little funny, but as far as the norm is with ilok dongle and ilok machine lisence, once it's all registered there is no need for Internet connection, not sure about the cloud if your codes or serial are in a cloud and you leave it there I can only imagine you would need a Internet connection all the time,


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## mussnig (Apr 29, 2021)

novaburst said:


> That's very strange, I do know if the app needs an update and your on line it will start to get a little funny, but as far as the norm is with ilok dongle and ilok machine lisence, once it's all registered there is no need for Internet connection, not sure about the cloud if your codes or serial are in a cloud and you leave it there I can only imagine you would need a Internet connection all the time,



Ahhh, I see the confusion. I and also some others were deliberately talking about iLok Cloud. This way you don't need a dongle but you more or less need to be online all the time.


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## easyrider (Apr 29, 2021)

Tronam said:


> The purpose of copy protection, like the weak locks on our homes' doors, is to introduce enough friction to discourage casual theft.


The crackers have most copy protections hacked. Its not the end user doing it its professional hackers.



Tronam said:


> Dongles achieve this and attach at least some semblance of physical ownership to a digital good.


Why?

I have plenty of software that is serial based and doesn't require a dongle. Why does a Dongle attach ownership?

I can see what I have when I log into Native access for example.



Tronam said:


> Obviously those with enough determination will find ways around the system (not always though, 12 years uncompromised for Reason), but developers are betting that the majority won't put in the effort and will do the right thing by purchasing the tools they use.


Buyers dont put in the effort...Hackers do....

I buy all my software and sample libraries. But I haven't gone to VSL due to the dongle...Its a weak link in the VSL platform. Which is a shame.

Developers know full well that ilok means diddly squat.....If softube for example ditched the ilkok more people would buy their software that was my point.


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## Shredoverdrive (Apr 29, 2021)

mussnig said:


> Ahhh, I see the confusion. I and also some others were deliberately talking about iLok Cloud. This way you don't need a dongle but you more or less need to be online all the time.


I really think I have worked offline with Ilok Cloud products for some extended periods of time (UVI and EW products) but noone can be 100% certain unless they test it.


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## easyrider (Apr 29, 2021)

Shredoverdrive said:


> I really think I have worked offline with Ilok Cloud products for some extended periods of time (UVI and EW products) but noone can be 100% certain unless they test it.








iLok Cloud


An iLok Cloud is part of the PACE licensing platform. It can be used to activate licenses, as an alternate to a physical iLok (or the host).



www.paceap.com


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## Shredoverdrive (Apr 29, 2021)

easyrider said:


> iLok Cloud
> 
> 
> An iLok Cloud is part of the PACE licensing platform. It can be used to activate licenses, as an alternate to a physical iLok (or the host).
> ...


Well I stand corrected! Thanks. Can be quite a problem, then...


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## Sambaji (Apr 29, 2021)

I was discouraged in the past from buying from VSL because of the dongle requirement. Getting rid of the requirement will likely result in more sales.


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## Taiki "Wayne" Egawa (May 6, 2021)

Good news!!


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## Mark Schmieder (May 13, 2021)

And of course they just announced a USB-C version of iLok Gen 3 yesterday, just a couple of months after many of us bought Gen 3 on USB-A. It's not clear whether it's different other than the connector, as their marketing spiel is verbose without saying much of consequence.  Maybe VSL has a better handle on what it means and whether there's any point in upgrading if we already have Gen 3 on USB-A. Of course some people have no choice based on their hardware configuration.


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## Ben (May 13, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> And of course they just announced a USB-C version of iLok Gen 3 yesterday, just a couple of months after many of us bought Gen 3 on USB-A. It's not clear whether it's different other than the connector, as their marketing spiel is verbose without saying much of consequence.  Maybe VSL has a better handle on what it means and whether there's any point in upgrading if we already have Gen 3 on USB-A. Of course some people have no choice based on their hardware configuration.


As far as I know it's the same with the only difference of having an USB-C connector.


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## Nimrod7 (May 13, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> And of course they just announced a USB-C version of iLok Gen 3 yesterday, just a couple of months after many of us bought Gen 3 on USB-A. It's not clear whether it's different other than the connector, as their marketing spiel is verbose without saying much of consequence.  Maybe VSL has a better handle on what it means and whether there's any point in upgrading if we already have Gen 3 on USB-A. Of course some people have no choice based on their hardware configuration.


The UBC-C ports are more rare than USB-A, and (simple) hubs are non-existent for USB-C. 
Well there are USB-C docks, but those are expensive to get. 

I am failing to see any benefit of having a USB-C Ilok, except for the simplicity of having it with you if you have a macbook pro, without needing a converter


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## babylonwaves (May 14, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> And of course they just announced a USB-C version of iLok Gen 3 yesterday,


it's a dongle. what's the issue with making a version which fits natively?


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## Toecutter (May 14, 2021)

Ben said:


> As far as I know it's the same with the only difference of having an USB-C connector.


Yep support confirmed there are no differences other than the connector


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## dzilizzi (May 15, 2021)

babylonwaves said:


> it's a dongle. what's the issue with making a version which fits natively?


When they came out with iLok2, a number of programs wouldn't work with original iLoks, so we had to buy new iLoks before we might be ready to. There's the concern we will have to update to a version our computers can't support. Though most of my PC's do have one USB-c port.

But it sounds like it is just a new connection and not new software.


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## justjero (May 16, 2021)

Just bought vepro7 any chance i can link it to my ilok already ?


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## Michael Antrum (May 16, 2021)

justjero said:


> Just bought vepro7 any chance i can link it to my ilok already ?


No.


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## ptram (Jul 3, 2021)

While I can't wait to get rid of the awful eLicenser, I’m also worried about what is reported by users of iLok Cloud about extended downtimes. Maybe opting for the iLok key is a better idea? But then, the advantage of not using a physical key will get lost. What to do?






ILOK cloud down yet again


Have to say that i am getting fed up with iLok cloud it has been down more times this year than ever, eLicenser had one issue when Cubase 11 launched and that's it. Im now completely stuffed as cant open my project in Cubase as Seventh Heaven will only authenticate with iLok Cloud, might be...




vi-control.net





Paolo


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 3, 2021)

Liquidsonics have just announced ilok machine licences for their products.....

Let's hope that VSL feel comfortable enough to go this way too.


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## Geomir (Jul 3, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Liquidsonics have just announced ilok machine licences for their products.....
> 
> Let's hope that VSL feel comfortable enough to go this way too.


Oh let someone else post some exciting news, will you? You beat me to this, I was going to post it here. iLok machine licenses are just so convenient. Now Seventh Heaven is surely my next reverb purchase. I love companies that listen to their customers, and VSL seems to be doing the same.


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## Mark Schmieder (Jul 3, 2021)

Although strangely, nothing changed after I did the update to Seventh Heaven Pro yesterday. The machine lock still shows as greyed. I think you have to have an unused allocation, from the cloud, to convert to the machine license, and by default those products allocate their cloud license and their iLok dongle license when you first install them.


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## ptram (Jul 3, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> ilok machine licences


However, I see two problems with machine licensing:

- you can't easily move your license to another machine (when working in another studio, or using a library or software for a live performance);

- if the computer breaks, you have to recover all the licenses.

I'm not sure machine licensing is preferable to key + protection plan. At least, with iLok the management interface is a lot better than the Steinberg's one.

Paolo


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## paulmatthew (Jul 3, 2021)

ptram said:


> However, I see two problems with machine licensing:
> 
> - you can't easily move your license to another machine (when working in another studio, or using a library or software for a live performance);
> 
> ...


It's best to go with Ilok dongle and zero downtime.


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## Jack Weaver (Jul 3, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> It's best to go with Ilok dongle and zero downtime.


I totally agree.

.


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## rrichard63 (Jul 3, 2021)

ptram said:


> But then, the advantage of not using a physical key will get lost. What to do?


Keep in mind that you will also lose the *advantages* of a physical key. Given that some form of license enforcement is a necessary evil, the iLok dongle is my personal preference. When my motherboard died, these licenses were the easiest to reauthorize. You do need the Zero Downtime protection at a small extra cost.


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## paulmatthew (Jul 3, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Keep in mind that you will also lose the *advantages* of a physical key. Given that some form of license enforcement is a necessary evil, the iLok dongle is my personal preference. When my motherboard died, these licenses were the easiest to reauthorize. You do need the Zero Downtime protection at a small extra cost.


This is the reason why I have non dongle plugins like Valhalla , Plugin Alliance and Fabfilter. Immediate backup tools if necessary just in case. It would be great if every developer used the same Authorization Tool as Plugin Alliance. Being able to authorize/deauthorize your plugins at any time from any device is the best option. I see no reason why Ilok does not give us this option other than they simply don't want to.


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## Noeticus (Jul 3, 2021)

For me Valhalla is not a backup, as it is sooooooooooo good!


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## rrichard63 (Jul 3, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> Being able to authorize/deauthorize your plugins at any time from any device


Are you saying that when one computer blows up on you, Plugin Alliance lets you deauthorize the plugins that were on it from a different computer? That would indeed be a good thing.


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## paulmatthew (Jul 3, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> For me Valhalla is not a backup, as it is sooooooooooo good!


It's not what I meant but it's the reason I have Valhalla and Fabfilter is because they are so good and have non dongle authorization, but I also use Cinematic Rooms which is ILok. It's nice to have options.


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## paulmatthew (Jul 3, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Are you saying that when one computer blows up on you, Plugin Alliance lets you deauthorize the plugins that were on it from a different computer? That would indeed be a good thing.


Yes. You can deauthorize/reactivate machines and any plugins from any device at any time , even a smartphone. It's my favorite authorization system out there. The only problem is if you remove unwanted plugins or demos , you have to delete them manually.


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 3, 2021)

Can someone confirm for me - if you have zero downtime are you guaranteed replacement permanent licences, or is it at the discretion fo the original vendor ?


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## rrichard63 (Jul 3, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> Yes. You can deauthorize/reactivate machines and any plugins from any device at any time , even a smartphone.


Does this mean that Plugin Alliance products "call home" periodically when they are running? What do they do if your computer is not on the internet when they need to verify that they are authorized?


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## paulmatthew (Jul 3, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Does this mean that Plugin Alliance products "call home" periodically when they are running? What do they do if your computer is not on the internet when they need to verify that they are authorized?


One time activation through the install manager or activate when online through activation in plugin.


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## Ben (Jul 3, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Can someone confirm for me - if you have zero downtime are you guaranteed replacement permanent licences, or is it at the discretion fo the original vendor ?





https://www.ilok.com/#!zdt-coverage



"If you've ever lost an iLok USB, you know the expense and headache of contacting each of the software publishers for replacement licenses. Theft & Loss Coverage is an option you can choose to add to your ZDT covered iLok.

The TLC option allows us to replace your full licenses for a Lost or Stolen iLok RMA in the same way we do for a Broken iLok RMA. The best thing about TLC? It's included free with your ZDT subscription.

If you enable the TLC option, your iLok will need to be seen by our server at least once every 90 days for a Refresh operation. This Refresh enables your licenses to continue working for an additional 90 days. If the iLok is not seen by our server by the end of the Refresh period, the licenses on it will cease to authorize your software. Using iLok License Manager to do the Refresh operation will immediately reinstate your licenses.

This coverage is included at *no additional cost with your Zero Downtime subscription*, however you *MUST enable TLC on your iLok USB BEFORE* the device is lost or stolen."


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## storyteller (Jul 3, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Can someone confirm for me - if you have zero downtime are you guaranteed replacement permanent licences, or is it at the discretion fo the original vendor ?


My understanding is that if you have ZDT coverage you are guaranteed temporary licenses for 90 days if you do not select the TLC option... Basically this would mean keeping your licenses on your iLok like normal without that 90 day server ping requirement. At that point you would have to contact the developers directly to determine how to handle recovery of your licenses.,


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## ptram (Jul 3, 2021)

Ben said:


> https://www.ilok.com/#!zdt-coverage


Sigh! Nothing is perfect. On the iPad, either with Safari or Firefox, the page can't be zoomed in or out. Hopefully, everything else is working great (and I like the management software I use with the machine authorizations I have).

Paolo


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## pinki (Jul 3, 2021)

The great thing about iLok is that if you loose your key, as I did, even without ZDT, you still get your licenses back by contacting each company. A pain I know, but at least it means your investment is safe. 
ZDT is great for those times when calling each company is not an option.


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## ptram (Jul 3, 2021)

ZDT is a little price to pay for peace of mind and continuity of work. If I understand correctly, the 90 day thing is just the option for theft & loss protection, where the system remotely checks the licenses on the key. I guess it is optional for those who prefer to work offline.

Paolo


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## Ben (Jul 19, 2021)

Additional information regarding the iLok transition: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/m304812-Moving-from-eLicenser-to-iLok#post304812

---

Hello everybody,

I hope you are all enjoying summer (and of course winter, on the other side)!!

We are working on all the necessary steps that will make your *future transition to iLok* as comfortable as possible, and there are a few things we can already share with you!

More details and instructions will follow when the time has come.

*VIENNA PROTECTION PLAN

Starting August 1st*, the *Vienna Protection Plan* will be reduced to a *run-time of 1 year. *
New price: *€30*

Also, the day we’re making the iLok License Management platform available for all of our users:


We will stop selling Vienna Protection Plans.
We will stop selling ViennaKeys.
*YOUR TRANSITION to iLOK*

As soon as you have *registered your iLok account* with us (we will let you know when this is possible):


Your iLok licenses will be delivered to your iLok account automatically.
Your original eLicenser licenses will remain on your account, but cannot be transferred to any other account.
TIP: This could be a good time to register with iLok, if you don’t have an account yet. It’s FREE!

*GOOD TO KNOW*

- iLok offers a *Zero Downtime Coverage* and a *Theft & Loss Coverage*, please find more details here!
- All* future VSL software* will be available with *iLok protection only*.
- There will be *new sample content and software versions* available for you to download. An advanced Download Manager will make this a breeze.
- You will have to *decide whether you’d like to work with iLok or eLicenser for each Vienna Software product.* Our recommendation: Perform a complete transition of all your products right away.
- The *following products will NOT be available on iLok*: *Vienna Ensemble Pro 3/4/5/6*, *Numerical Sound FORTI/SERTI and ISP:IR* (discontinued in 2014).

So the only immediate change affects the Vienna Protection Plan, but we hope that this additional information will help you prepare for the changes in your system.

IMPORTANT: You will have enough time for the transition to iLok and of course our excellent support team will be there to help with all your questions!

All the best from Vienna,

Paul


----------



## holywilly (Jul 19, 2021)

Great news! Just got my ilok ZDT coverage and looking forward to transfer all my precious VSL licenses to ilok.

And I wish the 14 days return policy is still valid after moving to ilok.


----------



## ptram (Jul 19, 2021)

Ben said:


> the *Vienna Protection Plan* will be reduced to a *run-time of 1 year. *


Hi Paul, since the Zero Downtime is also available for the iLok, would the Vienna Protection Plan give any additional coverage? Are they alternative?

Paolo


----------



## gamma-ut (Jul 19, 2021)

Reading back, and looking at Ben’s post, ZDT effectively replaces the VPP:



> Also, the day we’re making the iLok License Management platform available for all of our users:
> 
> 
> We will stop selling Vienna Protection Plans.


----------



## Tremendouz (Jul 19, 2021)

I don't want to read through 17 pages so... What's the reasoning for Cloud-only when talking about dongle-free solutions? The Cloud has been very unreliable due to semi-regular outages.

I've seen at least one prominent developer start to support machine-based authorization due to popular demand. Is this something that has been considered at VSL or should I not hold my breath?

EDIT: Seems I received an answer earlier regarding the possible reason for no host-based auth. (Easier to crack). Short memory is short


----------



## Pixelpoet1985 (Jul 19, 2021)

Ben said:


> Your original eLicenser licenses will remain on your account, but cannot be transferred to any other account.


One question: Does this mean one can have the licenses on two computers at the same time without moving keys? At least for older libraries which have both protection systems supported.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Jul 19, 2021)

I believe this is the case, as it was mentioned previously. 

In this way I'd be able to leave the e-licenser plugged into my desktop system, and I could take the ilok with me on my frequent travels....


----------



## Toecutter (Jul 19, 2021)

Tremendouz said:


> EDIT: Seems I received an answer earlier regarding the possible reason for no host-based auth. (Easier to crack).


If that's their reasoning, wasn't iLok cracked already? I remember a heated discussion on kvr or gearslutz, can't find it now, but some devs were very displeased, to say the least. I don't think there's such thing as an unbeatable security system but elicenser was doing a fine job it seems. I still have my gen1 dongle, rock solid!


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## Tralen (Jul 19, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> If that's their reasoning, wasn't iLok cracked already? I remember a heated discussion on kvr or gearslutz, can't find it now, but some devs were very displeased, to say the least. I don't think there's such thing as an unbeatable security system but elicenser was doing a fine job it seems. I still have my gen1 dongle, rock solid!


The reason the e-licenser wasn't cracked could be simply that the reach of VSL is too small to justify it. Even if iLok is cracked, I believe much more people will use VSL products if they are in a common platform with other products.

The current system is very restrictive and certainly a barrier to get new users into the ecosystem. The benefits of greater user adoption could far outweigh any downside from some illegal usage.


----------



## RonOrchComp (Jul 19, 2021)

Tralen said:


> The reason the e-licenser wasn't cracked could be simply that the reach of VSL is too small to justify it.



VSL is one of the largest sample library developers out there, and both Cubase anf Nuendo are also on the eLic platform.

I would not say that the reach is too small, especially when Cubase was in fact cracked years ago.

Not sure if it is current day, however.


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## Toecutter (Jul 19, 2021)

Tralen said:


> The reason the e-licenser wasn't cracked could be simply that the reach of VSL is too small to justify it. Even if iLok is cracked, I believe much more people will use VSL products if they are in a common platform with other products.
> 
> The current system is very restrictive and certainly a barrier to get new users into the ecosystem. The benefits of greater user adoption could far outweigh any downside from some illegal usage.


Cubase, Nuendo, Wavelab, Dorico, hello? XD

Not sure what's restrictive about a $20 USB stick, people pay more for a cup of coffee every day. Relying on cloud services is a horrible idea for a DAW imo.


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## Wunderhorn (Jul 19, 2021)

I still feel that it is no good business practice to encumber a legit customer with all this ilok/dongle/cloud whatever-nonsense and then even charging for guaranteed uptime?
Just my 2 cent as a customer with a gut feeling that this just does not feel good.


----------



## Bswylie (Jul 19, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> I believe this is the case, as it was mentioned previously.
> 
> In this way I'd be able to leave the e-licenser plugged into my desktop system, and I could take the ilok with me on my frequent travels....


I’m guessing here but I understand that to be the case, at least for the immediate future. I’d imagine over time though that newer software releases / updates would only support iLok, with phasing out of eLicenser support, so that eventually if we want to keep that “second license” it will be on older VSL builds?

Again, guessing here - but I think if that is right, it’s still absolutely fair from VSL - and I’m happy either way (but even happier for my multiple licenses too if the eLicenser is indeed supported in “read only mode” for some years ahead).

Either way, as usual, I think VSL have handled this well with great comms - it’s much appreciated.


----------



## Tralen (Jul 19, 2021)

RonOrchComp said:


> VSL is one of the largest sample library developers out there, and both Cubase anf Nuendo are also on the eLic platform.
> 
> I would not say that the reach is too small, especially when Cubase was in fact cracked years ago.
> 
> Not sure if it is current day, however.


VSL is large when you consider professional users, but I don't think the people that would present demand for a crack are in this demographic. I believe these people are much more attracted to the offerings from the heavy marketing companies.

I also don't think it is simply a matter of cracking the e-licenser, I imagine that there is significant risk for the person that will upload the samples being identified and exposed when the userbase is professional.



Toecutter said:


> Cubase, Nuendo, Wavelab, Dorico, hello? XD
> 
> Not sure what's restrictive about a $20 USB stick, people pay more for a cup of coffee every day. Relying on cloud services is a horrible idea for a DAW imo.


It was not the dongle per se, but VSL policies. Having to pay a 50% fee to get your licenses back in case something went wrong with the dongle was absurd. Also, having to ship your physical key across the globe in order to sell your license was medieval.


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## Ben (Jul 19, 2021)

@Bswylie That's correct, new updates and libraries will be available only for the iLok platform as soon as the transition happened.


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## Living Fossil (Jul 23, 2021)

Ben said:


> - The *following products will NOT be available on iLok*: *Vienna Ensemble Pro 3/4/5/6*, *Numerical Sound FORTI/SERTI and ISP:IR* (discontinued in 2014).


That's somehow a rude move to try to force users of VEPro 6 to udpate to version 7.
(which in my setup has no advantages on its own)


----------



## Ben (Jul 23, 2021)

Living Fossil said:


> That's somehow a rude move to try to force users of VEPro 6 to udpate to version 7.
> (which in my setup has no advantages on its own)


There is nothing rude about this, and we are also not forcing you to update. VEP6 will work just fine like it currently does, but it will not be ported to the iLok platform and will also not get any updates from this point on.


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## Living Fossil (Jul 23, 2021)

Ben said:


> There is nothing rude about this, and we are also not forcing you to update. VEP6 will work just fine like it currently does, but it will not be ported to the iLok platform and will also not get any updates from this point on.


Yeah, that's what you're supposed to write, no surprise.


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## Ben (Jul 23, 2021)

Living Fossil said:


> no surprise


Sure it's no surprise, if a company decides to discontinue support of a 5 year old product when there is a successor. 
And in these past 5 years you got updates and features - for free, even after the release of VEP7.


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## Living Fossil (Jul 23, 2021)

Ben said:


> Sure it's no surprise, if a company decides to discontinue support of a 5 year old product when there is a successor.
> And in these past 5 years you got updates and features - for free, even after the release of VEP7.


LOL


----------



## easyrider (Jul 23, 2021)

@Ben if I buy VEP7 what’s the upgrade cost to VEP8 ?


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## Ben (Jul 23, 2021)

easyrider said:


> @Ben if I buy VEP7 what’s the upgrade cost to VEP8 ?


Sorry, I have no idea... At this point you know as much about potential VEP8 pricing as I do 
And before anyone asks: No, we are not working on it right now, so VEP7 is still the way to go for quite some time


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## jason.d (Jul 23, 2021)

@Ben Since VSL is planning to stop selling Vienna keys and the protection plan, thus leaving those of us with VEP 5/6 licenses unprotected against key failure- is there going to be any special upgrade pricing so we don’t have to worry about losing our licenses?


----------



## Ben (Jul 23, 2021)

jason.d said:


> @Ben Since VSL is planning to stop selling Vienna keys and the protection plan, thus leaving those of us with VEP 5/6 licenses unprotected against key failure- is there going to be any special upgrade pricing so we don’t have to worry about losing our licenses?


Don't worry, make sure you are subscribed to the newsletter or follow my announcements here on VI-Control, so you don't miss any future sale!


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## jason.d (Jul 23, 2021)

Ben said:


> Don't worry, make sure you are subscribed to the newsletter or follow my announcements here on VI-Control, so you don't miss any future sale!


So essentially no path to protection for existing customers: those licenses go poof when the hardware key eventually dies. Got it.


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## Ben (Jul 23, 2021)

jason.d said:


> So essentially no path to protection for existing customers: those licenses go poof when the hardware key eventually dies. Got it.


If this happens, simply get in touch with our support. As long as you can RMA the broken eLicenser key we should be able to figure something out.


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## jason.d (Jul 23, 2021)

Ben said:


> If this happens, simply get in touch with our support. As long as you can RMA the broken eLicenser key we should be able to figure something out.


Okay that helps. Thank you.


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## musicsound (Jul 25, 2021)

When will VSL start with the iLok sytem ? I am considering to buy one or two of their Pianos but I intend to wait for this iLok step (and likely for a sales as well).


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 30, 2021)

musicsound said:


> When will VSL start with the iLok sytem ? I am considering to buy one or two of their Pianos but I intend to wait for this iLok step (and likely for a sales as well).


this Sunday begins the first step from what I understand.

from this and the VSL thread:

*VIENNA PROTECTION PLAN

Starting August 1st*, the *Vienna Protection Plan* will be reduced to a *run-time of 1 year. *
New price: *€30*

Also, the day we’re making the iLok License Management platform available for all of our users:


We will stop selling Vienna Protection Plans.
We will stop selling ViennaKeys.
*YOUR TRANSITION to iLOK*

As soon as you have *registered your iLok account* with us (we will let you know when this is possible):


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 30, 2021)

in case this hasn't been posted - good info for me being away from this stuff for a while.

i've experienced issues with iLok Cloud - so, i will probably stick with a key and ZDT/TLC.

$30/year: reasonable, i think.

this is all new to me, sorry if it's a repeat for most here.


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## ptram (Jul 30, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i've experienced issues with iLok Cloud - so, i will probably stick with a key and ZDT/TLC.


I'm fine with using a key, as long as there is an insurance covering any accidental damage, loss or steal. It sits there everytime, and you can move it without any fear.

Paolo


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 30, 2021)

ptram said:


> I'm fine with using a key, as long as there is an insurance covering any accidental damage, loss or steal. It sits there everytime, and you can move it without any fear.
> 
> Paolo








TLC turned ON


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## joeyf (Jul 30, 2021)

What is the situation with owners of VSL products and transfer of licences with a sale to another person? Will Transfer within iLock be as per normal with the fee of $25US?


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## RSK (Jul 30, 2021)

Forgive me if this has already been asked, but the only options are a physical key or the cloud, correct? No licensing to the computer?


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## Tremendouz (Jul 30, 2021)

RSK said:


> Forgive me if this has already been asked, but the only options are a physical key or the cloud, correct? No licensing to the computer?


That seems to be the case


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## Zanshin (Jul 30, 2021)

I am so excited to move to iLok. I have been trying upgrade my Synchron Brass license for the last 6 hours. Just to confirm the eLic servers down? 

I don't mind the dongle but this other shit really pisses me off. It's happened a few times for me. Once is an anomaly...


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## thomasjdev (Jul 30, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I am so excited to move to iLok. I have been trying upgrade my Synchron Brass license for the last 6 hours. Just to confirm the eLic servers down?
> 
> I don't mind the dongle but this other shit really pisses me off. It's happened a few times for me. Once is an anomaly...


I think this is 2nd large outage for eLicenser in recent times? Sounds like it will be a few hours or more to get things working again.

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/4404472502674-License-server-outage


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## easyrider (Jul 30, 2021)

thomasjdev said:


> I think this is 2nd large outage for eLicenser in recent times? Sounds like it will be a few hours or more to get things working again.
> 
> https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/4404472502674-License-server-outage


Total Junk.😤


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## Zanshin (Jul 30, 2021)

thomasjdev said:


> I think this is 2nd large outage for eLicenser in recent times? Sounds like it will be a few hours or more to get things working again.
> 
> https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/4404472502674-License-server-outage


Thank you. I googled but didn’t see anything.


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## AndyP (Jul 30, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I am so excited to move to iLok. I have been trying upgrade my Synchron Brass license for the last 6 hours. Just to confirm the eLic servers down?
> 
> I don't mind the dongle but this other shit really pisses me off. It's happened a few times for me. Once is an anomaly...


Same here. I cannot activate the Cubase 11 update. Steinberg is in maintenance mode and I hope everything will work again tomorrow.


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## Ben (Jul 30, 2021)

Hopefully it will be back online, soon. 
Sorry for the inconvenience.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 30, 2021)

I imagine it is better to wait until August 1st then to purchase any products we want to try out first or download any demos?


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## Ben (Jul 30, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I imagine it is better to wait until August 1st then to purchase any products we want to try out first or download any demos?


Well, you can start downloading and install all Synchron Library after purchase, no activation required until you want to use it.


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## Zanshin (Jul 31, 2021)

Day 2 server still down.

"A backup will be deployed, which will take several hours to be completed."

Part of a multi-billion dollar company but doesn't have redundancy for the most important server it has. LOL WTF. Yamaha needs to get in there and clean house.


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## easyrider (Jul 31, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Day 2 server still down.
> 
> "A backup will be deployed, which will take several hours to be completed."
> 
> Part of a multi-billion dollar company but doesn't have redundancy for the most important server it has. LOL WTF. Yamaha needs to get in there and clean house.


Dear customers,

We would like to inform you about the scheduled downtime of one of our servers. On August 3 (CEST), 2021, we will be transitioning to a new identity and access system which could result in a downtime of 24 hours maximum. Of course we hope to complete the system’s migration in less time and as soon as everything is up and running again, we will notify you through a separate post and via our customer news and social media channels.

Please note that during the downtime you won’t be able to activate licenses for purchased products, MySteinberg account access will be unavailable, and this forum will switch into read-only mode.

The migration to the new identity and access system is one of many steps we are taking to ensure ongoing customer satisfaction and to prepare for the new license management system we are currently working on. The new license system will not entail any changes to the existing licensing models.

We will try to keep the server downtime as short as possible and apologize for any inconveniences that may occur during this time.

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/upcoming-server-downtime-on-august-3/732762


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## Zanshin (Jul 31, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Dear customers,
> ...
> https://forums.steinberg.net/t/upcoming-server-downtime-on-august-3/732762



It is back up now. Probably right before they posted that.


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## heisenberg (Jul 31, 2021)

Thanks for this update.


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## tcb (Jul 31, 2021)

R.I.P. elicenser!!


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## fduncan (Jul 31, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> "A backup will be deployed, which will take several hours to be completed."


Steinberg can edit this statement to "A backup will be deployed, which will take several *DAYS* to be completed."


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 31, 2021)

Since it is technically August 1st in parts of the world, including Europe, now, has anybody been able to transfer their existing license to iLok? Are new licenses being delivered to iLok instead of eLicenser?


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## Michael Antrum (Aug 1, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Since it is technically August 1st in parts of the world, including Europe, now, has anybody been able to transfer their existing license to iLok? Are new licenses being delivered to iLok instead of eLicenser?



Actually, if you read the announcement carefully:

_"Starting August 1st, the Vienna Protection Plan will be reduced to a run-time of 1 year. 
New price: €30

Also, the day we’re making the iLok License Management platform available for all of our users:
_

_We will stop selling Vienna Protection Plans._"

It doesn't actually say that the day they are making the iLok License Management platform available for all of our user is actually August first.

In fact, if you read the statement, it says that the Vienna Protection Plan will be reduced to a run-time of 1 year on August first - and then it goes on to say that on the day they make iLok available, they will stop selling the the plans. 

It doesn't say that day will be August 1st, and they are hardly going to reduce the Vienna plan in price the day they stop selling it......


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 1, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Actually, if you read the announcement carefully:
> 
> _"Starting August 1st, the Vienna Protection Plan will be reduced to a run-time of 1 year.
> New price: €30
> ...


Ah, pity - I got over-eager in my excitement.


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## Michael Antrum (Aug 1, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Ah, pity - I got over-eager in my excitement.


I could well be completely wrong. It has happened before.

(Ask my wife, she'll tell you.)


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## Ben (Aug 1, 2021)

We did not reveal a date yet. 
We are working on the transition and we are making good progress, but you will have to wait a little longer. We are also working on quality of life improvements, to make the transition as smooth as possible!


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## holywilly (Aug 1, 2021)

Paul stated “There will be new sample content and software versions available for you to download. An advanced Download Manager will make this a breeze.”

Are the new sample content means new content for existing libraries or upcoming libraries? And I’m kind of looking forward to it.


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## Ben (Aug 1, 2021)

We'll see 😉


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## timbit2006 (Aug 2, 2021)

Ben said:


> We did not reveal a date yet.
> We are working on the transition and we are making good progress, but you will have to wait a little longer. We are also working on quality of life improvements, to make the transition as smooth as possible!


Hello I am in a tough position here as I need to buy Vienna Ensemble Pro but there is the elicenser transition going on so I have no idea what to do here. What is your advice? thanks in advance.


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## Ben (Aug 2, 2021)

timbit2006 said:


> Hello I am in a tough position here as I need to buy Vienna Ensemble Pro but there is the elicenser transition going on so I have no idea what to do here. What is your advice? thanks in advance.


If you need it now, get it! The eLicenser key is currently sold as low as possible on our website + you'll get a voucher for the next purchase (so you will not spend more money compared to getting it later).


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 3, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Paul stated “There will be new sample content and software versions available for you to download. An advanced Download Manager will make this a breeze.”
> 
> Are the new sample content means new content for existing libraries or upcoming libraries? And I’m kind of looking forward to it.


Which means if you’re looking at to buy a VSL library, is it advisable to wait a little more or it’s ok now?


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## holywilly (Aug 3, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Which means if you’re looking at to buy a VSL library, is it advisable to wait a little more or it’s ok now?


Just buy it!


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 3, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Just buy it!


Thanks @holywilly ! I’ll see what I can do coz first library right so.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 3, 2021)

@Ben Genuine curiosity, does it cost the vendor more to do a 2 machine activation option for iLok versus the cloud/dongle option?

Just trying to understand why some vendors don’t adopt the multiple machine license approach.


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## timbit2006 (Aug 3, 2021)

Ben said:


> If you need it now, get it! The eLicenser key is currently sold as low as possible on our website + you'll get a voucher for the next purchase (so you will not spend more money compared to getting it later).


Okay great thanks!


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## Ben (Aug 4, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> @Ben Genuine curiosity, does it cost the vendor more to do a 2 machine activation option for iLok versus the cloud/dongle option?


No idea, and I don't want to know 

We didn't use the soft-eLicenser, and for the same reason we won't use machine based activation.


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## CeDur (Aug 4, 2021)

@Ben I try to follow the thread and also read through VSL site, but it's still somehow not clear for me:

iLok migration is still not finished, right? I mean if I buy your products today, I still have to have dongle, but once iLok is active I can switch to online licence, right?
Regarding VSL pianos, I only want to buy and keep one, but not sure which one I'll like the most. Is it OK for me to buy 4 pianos individually (not bundle), keep the one I like the most and return the rest before 14 day period? Is there any fee to be paid when returning?


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## Ben (Aug 4, 2021)

CeDur said:


> iLok migration is still not finished, right? I mean if I buy your products today, I still have to have dongle, but once iLok is active I can switch to online licence, right?


Yes!


CeDur said:


> Regarding VSL pianos, I only want to buy and keep one, but not sure which one I'll like the most. Is it OK for me to buy 4 pianos individually (not bundle), keep the one I like the most and return the rest before 14 day period? Is there any fee to be paid when returning?


Sorry, I have no idea. Please contact our support team via [email protected] !


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## CeDur (Aug 4, 2021)

Ben said:


> CeDur said:
> Regarding VSL pianos, I only want to buy and keep one, but not sure which one I'll like the most. Is it OK for me to buy 4 pianos individually (not bundle), keep the one I like the most and return the rest before 14 day period? Is there any fee to be paid when returning?
> 
> Sorry, I have no idea. Please contact our support team via [email protected] !


If anyone else is interested, I've just recieved reply from VSL support confirming that above scenario is possible and no fee is charged when returning.


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## MusiquedeReve (Sep 23, 2021)

Does anyone know if you have to activate a VSL library purchase within a certain timeframe? I use iLok and really do not want to have to buy yet another dongle so I was thinking of making a purchase and waiting to activate it until VSL switches to iLok


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## RSK (Oct 6, 2021)

Any update as to when this is going to happen?


----------



## Ben (Oct 6, 2021)

RSK said:


> Any update as to when this is going to happen?


Soon. We have made quite some progress!


----------



## CT (Oct 6, 2021)

Michaelt said:


> It would be great if this also means demos will be more readily available. I'd really like to try Dimension Strings for myself. Maybe this was mentioned earlier, VERY SORRY if so.


Has anything more been said about this? I truly do hope the iLok move will be accompanied by more demo possibilities.


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## davinwv (Oct 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> Soon. We have made quite some progress!


Can we expect a launch in Q4 2021, or are we looking at 2022 at this point?


----------



## Toecutter (Oct 6, 2021)

Ben said:


> Soon. We have made quite some progress!


Please tell devs to take their time and make sure the transition goes as smoothly as possible  Vepro and MIR are my safe harbor.


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## RSK (Oct 6, 2021)

davinwv said:


> Can we expect a launch in Q4 2021, or are we looking at 2022 at this point?


Given that this announcement was first made in March of this year, don't hold your breath.


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## timbit2006 (Oct 7, 2021)

The change will be announced exactly 5 minutes after I've finally found the time to work on my template and just installed my new VEpro licenser dongle.


----------



## storyteller (Oct 7, 2021)

timbit2006 said:


> The change will be announced exactly 5 minutes after I've finally found the time to work on my template and just installed my new VEpro licenser dongle.


Hehe. Since their announcement, I've been overhauling my disabled template to a 4 Server VEPRO setup (will likely still need to add a 5th and/or 6th actually). I just bit the bullet and ordered a Vienna Key and an iLok for each. It takes so long to setup this workflow that it was worth the extra $30-$45 per server.


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## RSK (Oct 7, 2021)

timbit2006 said:


> The change will be announced exactly 5 minutes after I've finally found the time to work on my template and just installed my new VEpro licenser dongle.


Well, hurry up.


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## DJiLAND (Oct 7, 2021)

Support cloud..! So nice!


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## Rossy (Oct 18, 2021)

Ben said:


> Soon. We have made quite some progress!


I am excited, I have had nothing but issues trying to install the big bang orchestra (not your fault) and ended up just deleting it all from my computer. I use ilok and I am excited to see if I can finally try your software.


----------



## lgmcben (Oct 30, 2021)

I just learned about this news and immediately digged out the dongle that's been sleeping in my house for ages. I hope it stays alive until the ilok is available. Don't wanna buy insurance now...


----------



## Michael Antrum (Oct 31, 2021)

lgmcben said:


> I just learned about this news and immediately digged out the dongle that's been sleeping in my house for ages. I hope it stays alive until the ilok is available. Don't wanna buy insurance now...



Doesn’t matter, you don’t have to surrender your old e-licenser licences - you’ll just be issued with new iLok ones…..


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## lgmcben (Oct 31, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Doesn’t matter, you don’t have to surrender your old e-licenser licences - you’ll just be issued with new iLok ones…..


Cool. I've been wanting to try stomping on a dongle for a while. 
/s


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## Michael Antrum (Oct 31, 2021)

There are other types of websites that cater for that kind of behaviour……


----------



## devonmyles (Oct 31, 2021)

lgmcben said:


> Cool. I've been wanting to try stomping on a dongle for a while.
> /s


Talking of cool...If Edgar Sampson had been born a few years later, he might well have composed a tune called... 'Stomping on a Dongle'.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Oct 31, 2021)

*



*


----------



## patrick76 (Nov 10, 2021)

Ben said:


> Additional information regarding the iLok transition: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/m304812-Moving-from-eLicenser-to-iLok#post304812
> 
> ---
> 
> ...


Hi, Can you (or anyone) direct me to where I would register my iLok account with you? I don't see it under my account information on the VSL website. Thank you.


----------



## Ben (Nov 10, 2021)

patrick76 said:


> Hi, Can you (or anyone) direct me to where I would register my iLok account with you? I don't see it under my account information on the VSL website. Thank you.


Hi Patrick! We are currently working on the transition, so it's not possible to register and use your iLok account, yet.


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## Ben (Nov 10, 2021)

cedricm said:


> You really should offer to reimburse the elicenser dongles that you sold after having decided to switch to iLok but without ever informing new customers. At least as a coupon against future purchases.





Ben said:


> What’s more, we’re now offering ViennaKeys at a substantial discount, and we’ll include a free €20 voucher with every ViennaKey order in our web shop.


----------



## cedricm (Nov 10, 2021)

Once again, I thought I saw a new post when it was a super old one, browsing the "Latest Posts". I wish VIC color-coded the posts in the "Latest Posts" to show at once when the first post of a thread was posted, such as red for posts older than 3 months, yellow for posts between 1 and 3 months, or something.
Removing the previous post since not relevant.


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## Vlzmusic (Nov 10, 2021)

cedricm said:


> You really should offer to reimburse the elicenser dongles that you sold after having decided to switch to iLok but without ever informing new customers. At least as a coupon against future purchases.


That's not true, VSL raised this issue a long time ago, there was an official video on the subject, plus this thread etc.


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## cedricm (Nov 10, 2021)

Vlzmusic said:


> That's not true, VSL raised this issue a long time ago, there was an official video on the subject, plus this thread etc.


Yep, my bad, I deleted the offending comment.


----------



## EgM (Nov 10, 2021)

It's surprising how many people that aren't aware on the iLok move. @Ben, I think you should tell VSL to make a press release on this matter.

Likewise, Steinberg should do the same for their next copy protection scheme.


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## lgmcben (Nov 10, 2021)

EgM said:


> It's surprising how many people that aren't aware on the iLok move. @Ben, I think you should tell VSL to make a press release on this matter.
> 
> Likewise, Steinberg should do the same for their next copy protection scheme.


VSL should make a video of vsl ceo tossing a dongle into the ocean, turnaround and walk back in slow motion, screen fades to black. All that with epic track playing in the background made with BBO Hercules.


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## EgM (Nov 10, 2021)

lgmcben said:


> Make a video of vsl ceo tossing a dongle into the ocean, turnaround and walk back in slow motion, screen fades to black. All that with epic track playing in the background made with BBO H


ok


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## lgmcben (Nov 10, 2021)

EgM said:


> ok


Edit: I mean vsl should make it


----------



## Futchibon (Nov 10, 2021)

HI @Ben , I heard Steinberg are discontinuing their elicenser? I was wondering how that affects VSL customers?

I don't have any Steinberg products other than the elicenser which I bought for VSL; I assume VSL will have moved to ilok before the elincenser is discontinued? Or could there be other issues? Cheers


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 10, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> HI @Ben , I heard Steinberg are discontinuing their elicenser? I was wondering how that affects VSL customers?
> 
> I don't have any Steinberg products other than the elicenser which I bought for VSL; I assume VSL will have moved to ilok before the elincenser is discontinued? Or could there be other issues? Cheers


Not sure if you are joking or actually serious, since the thread says VSL is moving to iLok in the title.


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## Futchibon (Nov 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Not sure if you are joking or actually serious, since the thread says VSL is moving to iLok in the title.


lol I'm serious, but perhaps didn't explain myself vey well! 

Just a bit concerned that while Steinberg seem to have set a date for the discontinuation, VSL haven't AFAIK set a date for the ilok move, so just concerned there could be a gap where I can't access my VSL products if VSL ilok hasn't kicked in before the disontinuation date?


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## gamma-ut (Nov 11, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> lol I'm serious, but perhaps didn't explain myself vey well!
> 
> Just a bit concerned that while Steinberg seem to have set a date for the discontinuation, VSL haven't AFAIK set a date for the ilok move, so just concerned there could be a gap where I can't access my VSL products if VSL ilok hasn't kicked in before the disontinuation date?


How will the move make it impossible to access VSL products? They go on a dongle which doesn't have to check in with the server unless you need to move the licence to a different dongle. The one advantage of a dongle over machine-based C/R licensing is that one the licence is generated, it's pretty much self-contained expect for where you need to move licences between different dongles. (As far as I'm aware, VSL doesn't do computer-based licensing - just the dongle.)

That latter case obviously becomes a problem once Steinberg switches off the server (assuming it doesn't keel over again suddenly the way it did in the summer - the event that seems to have precipitated this rush to migrate) but the earliest date for that seems to be mid-summer next year, and that's according to ReFX.

Steinberg's own FAQ fudges that significantly - they won't switch it off until their own products are migrated, which could take as much time as VSL, if not more.

I imagine VSL wants to sell licences come summer 2022, so I'd expect them to have it done by then if that genuinely is the deadline for the licence server. However, that's not going to affect products that have already sold (with the caveat that if the dongle needs care and attention, then that will be a problem, but there you're into much rarer events).


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Nov 11, 2021)

I don't understand

Edit: and that summed up my issue. Nevermind me!


----------



## Nando Florestan (Nov 11, 2021)

Ridiculous. Forcing a migration like this on one's entire userbase... Wow. Boy, am I glad I never bought anything from VSL.

Copy protection is a scam and the audio industry is way too closed for its own good.


----------



## gamma-ut (Nov 11, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> I don't understand, so can someone please explain to me what will happen to my VSL licenses on my Steinberg dongle when Steinberg stops their services in 7 weeks?


See above.

tl;dr - they're not turning off the server in seven weeks (well, not on purpose at any rate). Your dongle will be unaffected in any case.


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Nov 11, 2021)

gamma-ut said:


> See above.
> 
> tl;dr - they're not turning off the server in seven weeks (well, not on purpose at any rate). Your dongle will be unaffected in any case.


I think I've been connecting the wrong dots on this. Apologies and thank you for the info.


----------



## Futchibon (Nov 11, 2021)

gamma-ut said:


> See above.
> 
> tl;dr - they're not turning off the server in seven weeks (well, not on purpose at any rate). Your dongle will be unaffected in any case.


Thanks, i know nothing about how the dongle system works - as I think is obvious from my posts!
Cheers


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 11, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> lol I'm serious, but perhaps didn't explain myself vey well!
> 
> Just a bit concerned that while Steinberg seem to have set a date for the discontinuation, VSL haven't AFAIK set a date for the ilok move, so just concerned there could be a gap where I can't access my VSL products if VSL ilok hasn't kicked in before the disontinuation date?


The e-licenser will work until it dies, so it really isn't a problem. They aren't so much removing it as adding a new iLok license. Where it will be a problem is if they don't get it changed over before Steinberg shuts the e-licenser down, they can't license new products.

Edit: oops, guess someone else answered this already.


----------



## Ben (Nov 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Where it will be a problem is if they don't get it changed over before Steinberg shuts the e-licenser down, they can't license new products.


Don't worry, we are working on it, made good progress so far, and we are also adding some nice improvements


----------



## rrichard63 (Dec 16, 2021)

Apologies in advance if this question has already been answered.

In order to switch to iLok, will we have re-download all of our VSL content? For me, that's about 1.1 terabytes. My internet connection is 8Mb/s, unless I can download everything at a different location and move it to my studio by sneakernet.


----------



## Ben (Dec 16, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Apologies in advance if this question has already been answered.
> 
> In order to switch to iLok, will we have re-download all of our VSL content? For me, that's about 1.1 terabytes. My internet connection is 8Mb/s, unless I can download everything to a different location and move it to my studio by sneakernet.


Yes. You will also be able to download everything to a different system and install it on your machine later.
I guess we will also offer harddrives with the installation data on it.


----------



## Tronam (Dec 16, 2021)

Do we have a timeframe yet on when we can expect to switch over our licenses?


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## Ben (Dec 16, 2021)

Tronam said:


> Do we have a timeframe yet on when we can expect to switch over our licenses?


Soon (sorry, can't give you an ETA; but we make good progress and things are looking good so far).


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## holywilly (Dec 16, 2021)

Please makes 2 available activations for each library, for mobile and studio rigs.


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## Bollen (Dec 16, 2021)

Ben said:


> Yes. You will also be able to download everything to a different system and install it on your machine later.
> I guess we will also offer harddrives with the installation data on it.


Are you sure you answered that question correctly? Why would we need to re-download everything, simply for a licence transfer?


----------



## Ben (Dec 16, 2021)

Bollen said:


> Are you sure you answered that question correctly? Why would we need to re-download everything, simply for a licence transfer?


Short answer: technical reasons.
But we are working on a download assistent that will handle this procedure, you will just need to log in and select the libraries you want to install.


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 16, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Please makes 2 available activations for each library, for mobile and studio rigs.


Only way I’d ever consider buying into the VSL ecosystem. Single activation licenses are for dinosaurs and greedy fossils.


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## PaulieDC (Dec 16, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Only way I’d ever consider buying into the VSL ecosystem. Single activation licenses are for dinosaurs and greedy fossils.


Tell that to Steinberg regarding Cubase. Had to buy a second Pro license for my laptop. I do miss Studio One's licensing model... username and a password, you get FIVE INSTALLS and you can manage them on the website within your account... deactivate whatever you need, etc. Zero risk when a hard drive decides to become a door stop. Not sure why we even need iLok, but it's an improvement. My entire EW library has been easy peazy to manage with iLok online, no need of a dongle.

Sorry, got off track. BEN! TWO Licenses!! Pass it on!


----------



## PaulieDC (Dec 16, 2021)

Ben said:


> Soon


Great Gershwin tune from Strike Up the Band. I look so forward to playing it on my iLok-driven VSL CFX Full instance that allows be TWO installs, right??


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## DJiLAND (Dec 16, 2021)

Ben said:


> But we are working on a download assistent that will handle this procedure, you will just need to log in and select the libraries you want to install.


Does it still use torrent-base? I sadly have a VSL downloader not working in my company.
I'm downloading it at home and moving it to an external hard drive.


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## Ben (Dec 16, 2021)

DJiLAND said:


> Does it still use torrent-base? I sadly have a VSL downloader not working in my company.
> I'm downloading it at home and moving it to an external hard drive.


Yes. Overall it's the best way to distribute these amounts of data globally.


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## Virtuoso (Dec 16, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Tell that to Steinberg regarding Cubase. Had to buy a second Pro license for my laptop.
> 
> Sorry, got off track. BEN! TWO Licenses!! Pass it on!


Posted by Steinberg yesterday… 3 activations and no more need to phone home. 



> December 15, 2021: Updated licensing terms on “Online Activation”:​Based on the feedback we received from our customers, we have decided to make changes to our initial concept. First, instead of reconnecting to the internet within 30 days, once your software has been activated on your computer, it won’t need to contact our Steinberg Licensing server again for the purposes of activation. Second, we have decided to increase the maximum number of activations from two to three computers per single-user license.











 Steinberg Licensing: A New and Exciting Era Begins


The transition to Steinberg Licensing begins. Our products will use this new system when introducing new versions of our creative tools and instruments.




www.steinberg.net


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## PaulieDC (Dec 16, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> Posted by Steinberg yesterday… 3 activations and no more need to phone home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 17, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Tell that to Steinberg regarding Cubase. Had to buy a second Pro license for my laptop. I do miss Studio One's licensing model... username and a password, you get FIVE INSTALLS and you can manage them on the website within your account... deactivate whatever you need, etc. Zero risk when a hard drive decides to become a door stop. Not sure why we even need iLok, but it's an improvement. My entire EW library has been easy peazy to manage with iLok online, no need of a dongle.
> 
> Sorry, got off track. BEN! TWO Licenses!! Pass it on!


Just heard that Steinberg have listened to their users, and the new licensing system will give three activations, and no requirement to be online every month as previously planned….


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## Bollen (Dec 17, 2021)

Ben said:


> Short answer: technical reasons.
> But we are working on a download assistent that will handle this procedure, you will just need to log in and select the libraries you want to install.


Ah! I see, it's because you need to code the licence into the software package, that makes sense, but it's unfortunate.

So we are getting the possibility of *two free* licences according to *VSL Forum:*

_"You will get converted iLok licenses for every eLicenser-protected permanent license that's on your account.
So, technically, you will have 2 licenses. And yes, you can run the corresponding products in 2 environments. _

Bear in mind that our that there will be no new products or software updates for eLicenser-protected products once we have made the transition to iLok, but of course existing systems will continue to work.

*EDIT:* As mentioned before in this thread, the following products will NOT be available on iLok: Vienna Ensemble Pro 3/4/5/6, Numerical Sound FORTI/SERTI and ISP:IR (discontinued in 2014)."


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## Tralen (Dec 17, 2021)

Ben said:


> Short answer: technical reasons.
> But we are working on a download assistent that will handle this procedure, you will just need to log in and select the libraries you want to install.


Ben, just to be sure,

I have some old libraries that I want to sell, libraries that haven't been installed on my machine for years and years.

Are you saying that I will have to download and install them just to move the license to iLok so I can sell them?


----------



## Ben (Dec 17, 2021)

Tralen said:


> Ben, just to be sure,
> 
> I have some old libraries that I want to sell, libraries that haven't been installed on my machine for years and years.
> 
> Are you saying that I will have to download and install them just to move the license to iLok so I can sell them?


No, the license transfer process will happen on your account on MyVSL. But in order to use the iLok variant you need to re-download the content.


----------



## Ben (Dec 17, 2021)

Bollen said:


> Ah! I see, it's because you need to code the licence into the software package, that makes sense, but it's unfortunate.
> 
> So we are getting the possibility of *two free* licences according to *VSL Forum:*
> 
> ...


You can still keep and use the eLicenser license.


----------



## PaulieDC (Dec 17, 2021)

Ben said:


> No, the license transfer process will happen on your account on MyVSL. But in order to use the iLok variant you need to re-download the content.


Once we get past the re-download game ("honey, how much data do we have left this month???"), it's going to be really nice. Glad VSL is making the leap.

One thing that may not be realized by everyone is how much it's costing you guys in resources/salaries to rewrite the entire licensing code base... resources that normally would be focused on new products (or upgrading existing) are now spending months on the licensing change, which has to be one mountain of a project. This (and the additional installs) will make a better experience for your existing customer base and obviously be a major plus for reaching new customers.

Anyway, thanks, tell the crew we appreciate it.


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## Ben (Dec 17, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> One thing that may not be realized by everyone is how much it's costing you guys in resources/salaries to rewrite the entire licensing code base...


You don't want to know...


----------



## timbit2006 (Dec 17, 2021)

Fair warning: After having a dongle+VEPro license and not being able to install it for 4-5 months at least I am now in fact finally installing VEPro in the next week therefore the switch to ILOK will happen soon; almost immediately after I finish setting up my dongle.


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## Noeticus (Dec 17, 2021)

Ben, can you confirm how many VSL licenses (valid install locations) we will get after the move to ilok?

It looks like it is 2, but now maybe 3?

I own almost everything VSL sells so redownload will take years.


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## machinesworking (Dec 21, 2021)

Ben said:


> No, the license transfer process will happen on your account on MyVSL. But in order to use the iLok variant you need to re-download the content.


So this begs the question, will this iLok transition also see a move to M1 native for VEP? With VEP are we only getting one iLok license? Currently we pay for more than one. I really would like to use the MAS VEP plug in with the M1 laptop here. Even if it was only the plug in that got ported at first it would be a huge help.


----------



## Pedro Camacho (Dec 21, 2021)

Ben said:


> You don't want to know...


I just hope all this new licensing code doesn't cripple performance!!


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 22, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> Ben, can you confirm how many VSL licenses (valid install locations) we will get after the move to ilok?
> 
> It looks like it is 2, but now maybe 3?
> 
> I own almost everything VSL sells so redownload will take years.


Think you are getting confused with Steinberg, who recently confirmed you will get three activations when the roll out starts....

As for VSL, frankly, I'd be simply amazed if you got more than one......


----------



## Ben (Dec 22, 2021)

machinesworking said:


> So this begs the question, will this iLok transition also see a move to M1 native for VEP?


Probably soon after the iLok transition. You should already be fine using the VEP connector plugin via Rosetta.


----------



## Ben (Dec 22, 2021)

Pedro Camacho said:


> I just hope all this new licensing code doesn't cripple performance!!


We make sure it doesn't! It's part of our testing procedure to check also for changes in performance.


----------



## ptram (Dec 22, 2021)

@Ben, any chance the new installer can "recode" the existing samples, without any need for redownloading them?

Paolo


----------



## Ben (Dec 22, 2021)

ptram said:


> @Ben, any chance the new installer can "recode" the existing samples, without any need for redownloading them?


Sorry, you will have to re-download the libraries. But we'll include the updates and make sure the experience will be as seamless as possible.


----------



## GeoMax (Dec 22, 2021)

Is there a "Go Live" date announced yet? 

I am so looking forward to an Office Space moment with my elicenser keys.


----------



## rrichard63 (Dec 22, 2021)

Ben said:


> Sorry, you will have to re-download the libraries. But we'll include the updates and make sure the experience will be as seamless as possible.


What is going to be the cost of a hard drive containing all of my VSL products, including shipping to the U.S.?


----------



## Ben (Dec 22, 2021)

GeoMax said:


> Is there a "Go Live" date announced yet?
> 
> I am so looking forward to an Office Space moment with my elicenser keys.


Not yet, but it will happen soon, so stay tuned!


----------



## Ben (Dec 22, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> What is going to be the cost of a hard drive containing all of my VSL products, including shipping to the U.S.?


Please contact [email protected] . I'm not involved in the shipment procedure, and have also no idea what the costs are.


----------



## Noeticus (Dec 22, 2021)

Ben, can you confirm how many VSL licenses (valid install locations) we will get after the move to ilok?


----------



## Ben (Dec 22, 2021)

Noeticus said:


> Ben, can you confirm how many VSL licenses (valid install locations) we will get after the move to ilok?


Sorry, I can't comment on that, because I'm not sure if the final decision was already made, and if so, what was decided regarding this topic.


----------



## Noeticus (Dec 22, 2021)

Ben said:


> Sorry, I can't comment on that, because I'm not sure if the final decision was already made, and if so, what was decided regarding this topic.


Please make it TWO via the power of suggestion.


----------



## machinesworking (Dec 22, 2021)

Ben said:


> Probably soon after the iLok transition. You should already be fine using the VEP connector plugin via Rosetta.


Well fine is relative here, I have to use the AU version of the plug in. For numerous reasons, the MAS version is ideal.


----------



## ptram (Dec 23, 2021)

Ben said:


> Sorry, you will have to re-download the libraries. But we'll include the updates and make sure the experience will be as seamless as possible.


Ben, please allow me another question on this issue: will our custom presets be immediately able to use the new samples, or will we have to remake them?

Paolo


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## Ben (Dec 23, 2021)

ptram said:


> Ben, please allow me another question on this issue: will our custom presets be immediately able to use the new samples, or will we have to remake them?
> 
> Paolo


They should still work - but I'll make sure to check this as well.


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## chris massa (Dec 23, 2021)

Ben said:


> You can still keep and use the eLicenser license.


Moving to iLok is fine. Redownloading can we do that to our current VSL directory or make a new one? Off load it as a backup then.


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## Ben (Dec 23, 2021)

chris massa said:


> Redownloading can we do that to our current VSL directory


Yes. But you can't run both, eLicenser and iLok version of a player at the same time. So if you don't plan to use the eLicenser data anyway, there will be no need for the old sample data.


----------



## chris massa (Dec 23, 2021)

Ben said:


> Yes. But you can't run both, eLicenser and iLok version of a player at the same time. So if you don't plan to use the eLicenser data anyway, there will be no need for the old sample data.


If the eLicenser is there, I use Pro Tools and Cubase. Should we clean off the VSL licenses? Oh the new player will look for iLok


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## Ben (Dec 23, 2021)

chris massa said:


> If the eLicenser is there, I use Pro Tools and Cubase. Should we clean off the VSL licenses?


No need to do that. I would recommend to keep using the eLicenser licenses as long as you have fully downloaded the new sample content, if you have enough space.


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## chris massa (Dec 23, 2021)

Ben said:


> No need to do that. I would recommend to keep using the eLicenser licenses as long as you have fully downloaded the new sample content, if you have enough space.


the player will look for the iLok data


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## smellypants (Dec 23, 2021)

Will there be a way to download all our ilok libraries while still using the elicenser versions.

Then once all the ilok versions are downloaded and installed we can switch over to using the ilok versions and abandon the elicenser versions.

Edit* I think my question was answered?


----------



## Ben (Dec 23, 2021)

smellypants said:


> Will there be a way to download all our ilok libraries while still using the elicenser versions.
> 
> Then once all the ilok versions are downloaded and installed we can switch over to using the ilok versions and abandon the elicenser versions.


Yes, you simply have to re-install the sample player(s) to switch between eLicenser and iLok content, if you have both content data variants installed.


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## Virtuoso (Dec 23, 2021)

Looking forward to the iLok switch!

I would be extremely grateful for 2 or ideally 3 iLok activations for each VSL library (like UVI, Softube, Synthogy and others already provide for their iLok libraries) so that we can use VEP properly across a couple of server instances without having to worry about juggling dongles and activating/deactivating licences ad hoc.


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## RSK (Jan 6, 2022)

This announcement was made 10 months ago. Just sayin'....


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## Marcus Millfield (Jan 6, 2022)

Still fine using the eLicenser, just sayin'...


----------



## Evans (Jan 6, 2022)

RSK said:


> This announcement was made 10 months ago. Just sayin'....


Yes, it's nice that we got such an advance heads up.


----------



## UDun (Jan 6, 2022)

Ben said:


> They should still work - but I'll make sure to check this as well.


Very good point ! I hope so as well because I built custom presets and expression maps for all synchron libraries. I don't want to reconfigure 200 tracks again from scratch in my template. That would take months


----------



## ashX (Jan 6, 2022)

What's the point of keeping that dongle/cloud system? iLok is already cracked and your libraries will be soon due to that so why would you make ppl suffer with all those dongles


----------



## RSK (Jan 6, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Still fine using the eLicenser, just sayin'...


Good for you, but the dongle is the #1 complaint with VSL on this forum so there are many who are not just fine with it.


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## Ben (Jan 6, 2022)

ashX said:


> What's the point of keeping that dongle/cloud system? iLok is already cracked and your libraries will be soon due to that so why would you make ppl suffer with all those dongles


Neither iLok nor eLicenser are cracked, so no worries 
(I know some people think otherwise; because of NDA I can't comment any further on this topic)

Of course we don't want to make people suffer, but rather offer the best service possible. With iLok you can also choose to have your licenses in the cloud.


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## synergy543 (Jan 6, 2022)

Ben, should I buy an iLok? Which one will I need?


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## Ben (Jan 6, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> Ben, should I buy an iLok? Which one will I need?


It depends. You can use the iLok Cloud where no USB key is required, but you have to stay online.
Or you can get one of the current iLok USB keys (USB A or USB C). But no need to rush it.


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## Jose7822 (Jan 6, 2022)

No, you should’ve said “get it soon because we’re almost there.” 😉😜


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## Ben (Jan 6, 2022)

Jose7822 said:


> No, you should’ve said “get it soon because we’re almost there.” 😉😜


We are, but your eLicenser will not suddenly stop working, and you can also move the Cloud licenses to the iLok key as soon as it arrives


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jan 6, 2022)

I won't believe it until i see proof. A picture of a van would do.


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## Jose7822 (Jan 6, 2022)

Ben said:


> We are, but your eLicenser will not suddenly stop working, and you can also move the Cloud licenses to the iLok key as soon as it arrives



I could use eLicenser, but I just built a new system and decided not to install it. I’m only using iLok moving forward, so I’ll just wait until your libraries get ported. I only have the new harp library anyway, so it’s not a huge deal for me.

The only other software I use that requires the eLicenser are Cubase and Dorico, and Spectral Layers (though I don’t really use it). Those will remove eLicenser this year, so I’ll also wait for them. For some reason, even though I’m on a desktop, getting rid of eLicenser feels good, lol.


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## Robert_G (Jan 6, 2022)

Ben said:


> It depends. You can use the iLok Cloud where no USB key is required, but you have to stay online.
> Or you can get one of the current iLok USB keys (USB A or USB C). But no need to rush it.


I'm curious about the online internet license.
If I'm working away on a project and lets say my internet goes down for 5 minutes....is my project with VSL libraries going to be unavailable until the internet goes back up?


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## Bollen (Jan 6, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> I'm curious about the online internet license.
> If I'm working away on a project and lets say my internet goes down for 5 minutes....is my project with VSL libraries going to be unavailable until the internet goes back up?


By far the most important question that no one has given a straight answer yet...


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## RSK (Jan 6, 2022)

Bollen said:


> By far the most important question that no one has given a straight answer yet...


Based on my experience with other tools that use iLok, the answer is yes. It's somewhere between 5-15 minutes.


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## Robert_G (Jan 6, 2022)

RSK said:


> Based on my experience with other tools that use iLok, the answer is yes. It's somewhere between 5-15 minutes.


If I'm not mistaken, EastWest Ilok licenses only checks every few weeks. That would be the way to do it.


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## RSK (Jan 6, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> If I'm not mistaken, EastWest Ilok licenses only checks every few weeks. That would be the way to do it.


I just checked Pace's website and found this:

"While your protected software is running, it will require a license check to continue. Rather than get the confirmation of the license locally from the computer or iLok hardware, we look to the open Cloud Session. The activation server sends down packets of license checks that will allow the software to run in short time increments. These increments are long enough that if there is a rough patch of communication, the software will carry on as if it didn’t lose communication. However, it will hit a limit after maybe 5-15 minutes, and the software will require a license check. Cloud Sessions are very, very low bandwidth. They only pass data (license checks) while the software is running."

License checks measured in weeks and not minutes would be ideal, but apparently that isn't what's happening.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 6, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> If I'm not mistaken, EastWest Ilok licenses only checks every few weeks. That would be the way to do it.


Are you kidding? That has not been my experience.


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## Mike Greene (Jan 6, 2022)

Admittedly, I can be dense sometimes, but in the opening post, I read this:
_"As soon as you have registered your iLok account with us ..."_

So I logged in to my VSL account and did some poking around, but I can't seem to find _where_ I give them my iLok account. It's probably some place really obvious, but I'm just not seeing it. Can someone post a link for where I enter my iLok account? Thanks!


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## RSK (Jan 6, 2022)

Mike Greene said:


> Admittedly, I can be dense sometimes, but in the opening post, I read this:
> _"As soon as you have registered your iLok account with us ..."_
> 
> So I logged in to my VSL account and did some poking around, but I can't seem to find _where_ I give them my iLok account. It's probably some place really obvious, but I'm just not seeing it. Can someone post a link for where I enter my iLok account? Thanks!


They haven't implemented it yet. Still working on it.


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## Mike Greene (Jan 6, 2022)

RSK said:


> They haven't implemented it yet. Still working on it.


Ah, okay. Thank you.

And here I was, worrying that I was supposed to have done this in 2021 and I might be too late now.


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## Ben (Jan 6, 2022)

Mike Greene said:


> Ah, okay. Thank you.
> 
> And here I was, worrying that I was supposed to have done this in 2021 and I might be too late now.


Don't worry, you can switch at any point in future once we finished implementing and testing of everything.
Right now we are already performance testing parts of our software, others is in the final stage of implementation, and we also prepare the infrastructure for the new Vienna Assistant download manager.

Once everything is done, you will probably get an email with a link where you can link your iLok account with your VSL. The licenses will automatically be deposited into your account. At the same time, download and install the new downloader, login, select the products you want to install and let it do its job. The assistant will keep itself and all products and libraries up to date (similar to how other download assistants handle these things). Also, we make sure to automatically install the right sample players depending on the libraries you install. 
We have also a few surprises coming with the transition, so stay tuned!


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## Robert_G (Jan 6, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Are you kidding? That has not been my experience.


My composer cloud didnt check until 6 weeks past my cancelation date. I could have used it well after the expire date


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## Ben (Jan 6, 2022)

Bollen said:


> By far the most important question that no one has given a straight answer yet...


We'll going to test this, but it will be similar to the 5-15 minutes Pace mentions on their website - so it should give you enough time to save and reconnect.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 6, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> My composer cloud didnt check until 6 weeks past my cancelation date. I could have used it well after the expire date


There are different types of iLok licensing: machine based vs cloud based
Probably you have used a "machine based" iLok licenses (license activated to a specific machine), which is a totally different thing than iLok cloud, where you have to be online pretty much all the time.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 6, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> My composer cloud didnt check until 6 weeks past my cancelation date. I could have used it well after the expire date


That couldn't have been through an iLok dongle or Cloud license.


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## Robert_G (Jan 6, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> That couldn't have been through an iLok dongle or Cloud license.


It was a couple years ago but now that I think about it.....yeah it was machine based. Still shocked it went 6 weeks or so past expiry


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## Bollen (Jan 6, 2022)

RSK said:


> Based on my experience with other tools that use iLok, the answer is yes. It's somewhere between 5-15 minutes.


Right, so if your internet drops out in the middle of a job (randomly not regularly as it has happened to me in the past) then you're stuck? Can you at least save your work or does it get blocked?


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## machinesworking (Jan 6, 2022)

Ben said:


> It depends. You can use the iLok Cloud where no USB key is required, but you have to stay online.
> Or you can get one of the current iLok USB keys (USB A or USB C). But no need to rush it.


I have two iLok 2 keys, the current one is iLok 3, is this license restricted to iLok 3?


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## Ben (Jan 6, 2022)

Bollen said:


> Right, so if your internet drops out in the middle of a job (randomly not regularly as it has happened to me in the past) then you're stuck? Can you at least save your work or does it get blocked?





Ben said:


> We'll going to test this, but it will be similar to the 5-15 minutes Pace mentions on their website - so it should give you enough time to save and reconnect.


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## Ben (Jan 6, 2022)

machinesworking said:


> I have two iLok 2 keys, the current one is iLok 3, is this license restricted to iLok 3?


iLok 2 keys should work as well to my knowledge.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jan 6, 2022)

So, if PACE/iLok or their service provider has any downtime with the iLok Cloud infra or you have an issue with your internetprovider, you wouldn't be able to use any of the iLok Cloud licensed software after 5/15 minutes until the services are up again.

It is for you to decide how much impact that will give.


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## Bollen (Jan 7, 2022)

Sorry, I obviously didn't make myself clear. I live in London, internet outages are rare, but they do occur. When they do, the internet goes out anything from 6 hours to 48. My question was whether you were then able to at least save your work when connection is not available and won't be for theoretically up to 48 hours?


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## Ben (Jan 7, 2022)

Bollen said:


> Sorry, I obviously didn't make myself clear. I live in London, internet outages are rare, but they do occur. When they do, the internet goes out anything from 6 hours to 48. My question was whether you were then able to at least save your work when connection is not available and won't be for theoretically up to 48 hours?


Within 5-15 minutes of connection drop yes. After that time I'm not sure, I have to check this. But in this case I highly recommend to put your licenses to a physical iLok USB key - this will work completely offline, just like you are able with eLicenser.


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## Bollen (Jan 7, 2022)

Ben said:


> Within 5-15 minutes of connection drop yes. After that time I'm not sure, I have to check this. But in this case I highly recommend to put your licenses to a physical iLok USB key - this will work completely offline, just like you are able with eLicenser.


Thank you Ben. I hope you forward our concerns to VSL. This could easily be solved by providing 2 licences per product, thus allowing us to have an “emergency backup” on a dongle for these situations.


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## Geomir (Jan 7, 2022)

The option of iLok machine activation would be more than perfect.


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## Bollen (Jan 7, 2022)

Geomir said:


> The option of iLok machine activation would be more than perfect.


I don't know about that, what about catastrophic HD failure??? I'm terrified of that and I've already one in my life...


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## Marcus Millfield (Jan 7, 2022)

That hardware dongle doesn't sound so bad after all, now does it?


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## Zanshin (Jan 7, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> That hardware dongle doesn't sound so bad after all, now does it?


LOL. @Cory Pelizzari in his 7H review video says "... an iLok is one of the first things a composer should get..." source.


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## Jose7822 (Jan 7, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> LOL. @Cory Pelizzari in his 7H review video says "... an iLok is one of the first things a composer should get..." source.


For sure! There are sooo many libraries and plugins that use it that you’ll miss out on all of them.


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## Noeticus (Jan 7, 2022)

iLok is so good, I have two of them.


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## Geomir (Jan 7, 2022)

Bollen said:


> I don't know about that, what about catastrophic HD failure??? I'm terrified of that and I've already one in my life...


One extra option is always good, so customers can choose what suits them best. I didn't mean that iLok machine activation should be the only option.

About catastrophic disk failure, yes statistically it can happen. The same goes for USB failure and for Interent failure. All options can fail sometimes I suppose.


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## Geomir (Jan 7, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> LOL. @Cory Pelizzari in his 7H review video says "... an iLok is one of the first things a composer should get..." source.


And yet Liquidsonics gave the option of iLok machine activation to 7H.


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## Robert_G (Jan 7, 2022)

How is an Ilok dongle different from an Elicencer dongle?


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## rnb_2 (Jan 7, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> How is an Ilok dongle different from an Elicencer dongle?


Better construction and used by more products, at the very least.


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## Robert_G (Jan 7, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Better construction and used by more products, at the very least.


So i still need the similiar protection insurance that VSL offers?


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## Jose7822 (Jan 7, 2022)

If you want zero downtime, iLok offers that as a subscription program. It’s a 24/7 service, so you can get back to work as soon as possible in the event of losing an iLok key, etc.


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## Zanshin (Jan 7, 2022)

Geomir said:


> And yet Liquidsonics gave the option of iLok machine activation to 7H.


Yes, that's what we were talking about. Catastrophic HD failure during a machine activation.


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## robgb (Jan 7, 2022)

Bollen said:


> I don't know about that, what about catastrophic HD failure??? I'm terrified of that and I've already one in my life...


Aren't you making multiple copies of your drives? My sample libraries are on four separate cloned disks in case one goes south.


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## ashX (Jan 7, 2022)

Why not just make it dongle/iLok-less and make a dongle or a cloud not a requirement but an option for those who want to plug it in studio PC and get licences without a problem?
Using iLok and dongles because scared of losing money (from piracy)?
Why would we clients care about your money, we want a good product that we would use in any situation (without internet, without paying for useless usb dongles that might break, paying for insurances and waiting for that dongle to be delivered lol)


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## machinesworking (Jan 7, 2022)

ashX said:


> Using iLok and dongles because scared of losing money (from piracy)?
> Why would we clients care about your money,


 I don't particularly like dongles, but you answered your own question here. Because enough clients don't care to pay, we deal with dongles.


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## rrichard63 (Jan 7, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Better construction and used by more products, at the very least.


In addition, iLok's software is has more features and is more user-friendly.


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## Bollen (Jan 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> Aren't you making multiple copies of your drives? My sample libraries are on four separate cloned disks in case one goes south.


My sample libraries? Absolutely! My HD with the OS? Nope, and I know I should... I have a backup from when I first installed it so in case of catastrophic failure I can get on Amazon, get an HD delivered overnight and be back at work in a few hours. But the licences would be lost!!!


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## Ben (Jan 7, 2022)

The iLok has quite a few advantages: the USB key is made of better quality, you can get a protection service directly from Pace, it's way faster, it's more reliable (I did not had a single iLok issue until today), and it can store way more licenses (I have already filled up the eLicenser to a point where it just works, but I can't add or remove licenses from it). Oh, and you can simply batch activate / move licenses by selecting them and drag them to the new location - something I really missed on eLicenser.

Personally I dislike all kinds of hard drive activations: I have to remember to disable each manually in order to be able to reactivate after reinstalling Windows. Moving to my second machine is also really annoying. Therefore I choose to get an iLok license instead if possible (there are a few vendors offering custom hard drive or an iLok license).

This said, eLicenser worked quite well for most people, and it served its main purpose: to protect your investment by allowing us to stay in business, and also keep pushing innovation and constantly improve our software - in many cases available in Form of free updates!


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## Ben (Jan 7, 2022)

Most HDD copy protections will not last with backups if you need to replace the drive, as it is bound to the serial number of the drive and will not work on another one.


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## Ben (Jan 7, 2022)

ashX said:


> we want a good product that we would use in any situation


And that's exactly why we need copy protection in the industry. No one likes it, including me, but it is a necassary evil, especially since there are people out there that don't care if we make money and can run a business. 
How would you feel if you didn't get paid after a hard day of work, because your boss/client does not care about your money?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 7, 2022)

15+ years of using iLok - not a single issue ever. Very easy to move to new machines as well. Plus now with ZDT + TLC (total loss coverage), I have peace of mind as well (though once again - never had a need for it in 15+ years).

I am looking forward to this transition from VSL + Steinberg since I'd rather have one dongle than two.


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## Tralen (Jan 7, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> That hardware dongle doesn't sound so bad after all, now does it?


The problem I had with the hardware dongle was that it was the only option. So, to sell a license, I would have to _ship the dongle_ to the buyer. Shipping something from Europe to Brazil is quite expensive, and I would have to import another dongle just to add the licenses and then ship it again.



Robert_G said:


> How is an Ilok dongle different from an Elicencer dongle?


A big difference, pertaining to my example, is that with iLok I could transfer the licenses to the cloud, sell them, and the buyer could opt to download them into a dongle. This option makes VSL products much more accessible.


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## jbuhler (Jan 7, 2022)

Back in the bad old days I used to have ilok licensing errors all the time. And ilok used to be very picky about which USB slot I plugged it into. But I can’t remember the last time I had an issue. It’s been at least five years. And now I can plug it in wherever.


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## Jose7822 (Jan 7, 2022)

Ben said:


> And that's exactly why we need copy protection in the industry. No one likes it, including me, but it is a necassary evil, especially since there are people out there that don't care if we make money and can run a business.
> How would you feel if you didn't get paid after a hard day of work, because your boss/client does not care about your money?


Exactly!

I find it a slight inconvenience, but I understand why copy protection is necessary. People need to start seeing things from the other person’s perspective. Doing so would eliminate a lot of the “why do I have to….blah, blah.” It’s common sense 🙂.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jan 7, 2022)

Tralen said:


> The problem I had with the hardware dongle was that it was the only option. So, to sell a license, I would have to _ship the dongle_ to the buyer. Shipping something from Europe to Brazil is quite expensive, and I would have to import another dongle just to add the licenses and then ship it again.



I know, that's a pain (am waiting for a dongles license myself), but then again: I'm glad VSL products are resellable and can be demoed at all, thanks in part to this license scheme with the copyright protection.

I get the cons of the dongle people note, but for those who depend on the license being available and the value of their investment being protected, the hardware dongle of old isn't that bad a deal. Would you really want to be dependant on internet services being available for your (ten)thousands of dollars worth of software investment? I don't, and am a pure hobbyist.


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## Geomir (Jan 8, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Yes, that's what we were talking about. Catastrophic HD failure during a machine activation.


And yet Liquidsonics gave the option of iLok machine activation to 7H. 

They started with iLok dongle only. Then they added the option for iLok cloud, and later they added the option for iLok machine activation.

They didn't move from one system to the others, they added extra options. Extra options are always good to have.


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## mussnig (Jan 8, 2022)

I'm not sure but if I remember correctly, I have read the following about iLok:
If your dongle breaks or gets lost and you don't have the protection plan, then there is not much you can do.
If your machine based activiation gets corrupted (or whatever), then the developer of the affected product CAN help you out (so if the dev. is nice, you might be in luck).

Anybody know if that's true?


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## Geomir (Jan 8, 2022)

mussnig said:


> I'm not sure but if I remember correctly, I have read the following about iLok:
> If your dongle breaks or gets lost and you don't have the protection plan, then there is not much you can do.
> If your machine based activiation gets corrupted (or whatever), then the developer of the affected product CAN help you out (so if the dev. is nice, you might be in luck).
> 
> Anybody know if that's true?


Most of the information is here:


https://www.ilok.com/#!zdt-coverage



At the bottom of this page, there are some small colorful icons that you must "mouse-over" to get the pop up explanations on most what-if scenarios, with or without "Zero Downtime" insurance. They use some turtles to convince you how slow the support service will be if you don't buy the insurance.

Confusing. I would choose iLok machine activation over and over again.


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## khollister (Jan 8, 2022)

mussnig said:


> I'm not sure but if I remember correctly, I have read the following about iLok:
> If your dongle breaks or gets lost and you don't have the protection plan, then there is not much you can do.
> If your machine based activiation gets corrupted (or whatever), then the developer of the affected product CAN help you out (so if the dev. is nice, you might be in luck).
> 
> Anybody know if that's true?


In both cases you are basically throwing yourself on the mercy of the developer. The iLok ZDT/TLC insurance is only $30/yr per dongle and you can immediately install replacement licenses on a new iLok. I get that the cost of the dongle ($45) and the insurance might be onerous if you only have 1 or 2 low cost FX plugins that require it, but considering that most of us likely have hundreds/thousands of dollars of libraries and plugins authorized via iLok, the cost of the dongle and the yearly insurance is lost in the noise. Having just migrated to a new computer, the convenience of iLok was huge.

Frankly, I wish all developers would consider iLok as an option - it is far more reliable and secure (with ZDT/TLC) than keeping up with dozens of serial numbers and /or limited installs that require "mother may I?" interactions with developers to reinstall your software. 

The Steinberg eLicenser is a POS compared to iLok - I can't wait for VSL to roll out the iLok versions.

Personally, the iLok cloud and machine options have no utility for me. The cloud is a pain if you change machines often and it requires constant internet access, and the machine option is too risky for my tastes. The TLC option on the dongle only requires a brief internet connection once every 90 days to validate you still own the licenses and you can perform that "call home" on your schedule if you know you are going to be out of contact when the time expires.


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## jamwerks (Jan 8, 2022)

For those who wonder how VSL can deliver such diamond quality libraries and software, at such a low price. It's because they're protected from piracy. Piracy is a big problem unfortunately.

It's an ugly and sad truth, but for example piracy is wide-spread and even commonly socially "accepted" in places like Italy, (just to name a place I know), and there are surely many other places around the world. Even those composers makeing a fortune there, many have their hard-drives full of cracked Kontakt librairies. I know that because I've worked with them. I'd say it's a cultural phenomen...

So imo people should just get over the different problems associated with copy protection. It's in our own best interest that VSL can be protected, and keep delivering us great tools at affordable prices.

Ilok seems cool having both dongle and cloud possibilities; you choose your protection. And for those of us making our living with this, things like Ilok downtime protection, or even owning double licences on reduntant Iloks (for daw & vep) might make sense!


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## NeonMediaKJT (Jan 8, 2022)

Hello guys,

I have an iLok license key that has licenses on it for a while. I'm not sure I'm wrapping my head around the idea of the cloud. Will i be able to transfer my existing licenses into an ilok cloud license? If so, what are the negatives? Will I need to be online 100% of the time for my things to work?


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## axb312 (Jan 8, 2022)

A vote here for machine based ilok if anyone's counting..


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## Ben (Jan 8, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I have an iLok license key that has licenses on it for a while. I'm not sure I'm wrapping my head around the idea of the cloud. Will i be able to transfer my existing licenses into an ilok cloud license? If so, what are the negatives? Will I need to be online 100% of the time for my things to work?


It depends on if the developer allows this. Our paid products will be able to be run in the cloud.
You can check it in the iLok License Manager - if the cloud icon is highlighted, you can move the license to your cloud account.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I have an iLok license key that has licenses on it for a while. I'm not sure I'm wrapping my head around the idea of the cloud. Will i be able to transfer my existing licenses into an ilok cloud license? If so, what are the negatives? Will I need to be online 100% of the time for my things to work?


Yes, You need to be connected to the internet.

Icloud is laggy Pile of do do….



https://www.ilok.com/#!faq


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## Ben (Jan 8, 2022)

axb312 said:


> A vote here for machine based ilok if anyone's counting..


Sorry, this will not happen (at least not any time soon).


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

axb312 said:


> A vote here for machine based ilok if anyone's counting..


Machine based Ilok sucks….Hardrive failure….and you’re goosed….

Happened to me with my Softube licences….and my laptop.

Never again will I have a Ilok licence on my machine….

Softube were pros at sorting me out.But it was a hassle.

ZDT and physical Ilok is always better…

But the notion that Ilok is a copy protection system is myth…

The hackers have pretty much mastered all the copy protection associated with it….


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## Ben (Jan 8, 2022)

easyrider said:


> But the notion that Ilok is a copy protection system is myth…
> 
> The hackers have pretty much mastered all the copy protection associated with it….





Ben said:


> Neither iLok nor eLicenser are cracked, so no worries
> (I know some people think otherwise; because of NDA I can't comment any further on this topic)


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

The Ilok itself isn’t cracked but the software that uses it is…

WRAPWARDEN/iLOK, FUSiON/iLOK, METAFORTRESS all been cracked.


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## jamwerks (Jan 8, 2022)

I'm hoping for a machine based possibility for Steinberg's upcoming system. I bought on sale an extra Dorico licence for use on my laptop pc. Dongles on things like portables that you carry around and put in strange places are dangerous in my experience for a varity of reasons. And big studio control-rooms don't always have good goood access (thanks maybe to the extreme soundproofing?) to internet for a cloud solution.

But for my home studio use for VSL, I'll be going with the Ilok dongle. Seems like the less-worst solution.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

jamwerks said:


> I'm hoping for a machine based possibility for Steinberg's upcoming system. I bought on sale an extra Dorico licence for use on my laptop pc. Dongles on things like portables that you carry around and put in strange places are dangerous in my experience for a varity of reasons. And big studio control-rooms don't always have good goood access (thanks maybe to the extreme soundproofing?) to internet for a cloud solution.
> 
> But for my home studio use for VSL, I'll be going with the Ilok dongle. Seems like the less-worst solution.


Steinberg is going to be machine based.


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## ashX (Jan 8, 2022)

jamwerks said:


> For those who wonder how VSL can deliver such diamond quality libraries and software, at such a low price. It's because they're protected from piracy. Piracy is a big problem unfortunately.
> 
> It's an ugly and sad truth, but for example piracy is wide-spread and even commonly socially "accepted" in places like Italy, (just to name a place I know), and there are surely many other places around the world. Even those composers makeing a fortune there, many have their hard-drives full of cracked Kontakt librairies. I know that because I've worked with them. I'd say it's a cultural phenomen...
> 
> ...


It's true but do those people have VSL libraries that are copy protected by elicenser? I guess not because they will never purchase them no matter what. Pirates are not their clients because they give 0$ in any situation.


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## Dietz (Jan 8, 2022)

ashX said:


> Pirates are not their clients because they give 0$ in any situation.


That contradicts the fact that VSL's sales quadrupled (IIRC) back in the days when the company switched from unprotected products to eLicenser.


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## Trash Panda (Jan 8, 2022)

Ben said:


> Sorry, this will not happen (at least not any time soon).


Then no purchases from people like myself will happen. Good luck to y’all, and I hope you join the modern age and embrace giving consumers the full suite of options at some point.


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## jamwerks (Jan 8, 2022)

ashX said:


> It's true but do those people have VSL libraries that are copy protected by elicenser? I guess not because they will never purchase them no matter what. Pirates are not their clients because they give 0$ in any situation.


In my experience most of them do. They have tons of cracked Kontakt libraries, and also some VSL ones that they want and know they have to pay for!


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## khollister (Jan 8, 2022)

Dietz said:


> That contradicts the fact that VSL's sales quadrupled (IIRC) back in the days when the company switched from unprotected products to eLicenser.


It would be interesting to know how this tracked with country/region. I suspect there are differences in "hobby pirates" vs "professional pirates" due to cultural norms as @jamwerks mentioned.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Jan 8, 2022)

easyrider said:


> Yes, You need to be connected to the internet.
> 
> Icloud is laggy Pile of do do….
> 
> ...


so if my internet drops, i can't continue with my work? Wish there was a better way than license systems like this.


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## khollister (Jan 8, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> so if my internet drops, i can't continue with my work? Wish there was a better way than license systems like this.


Not with iLok Cloud. The USB dongle works fine with no internet (or once every 90 days with ZDT/TLC) as does the iLok Machine license. However the machine license can't be revoked/replaced by Pace - you have to rely on the developer to issue a replacement license (which a lot of devs will do).


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> so if my internet drops, i can't continue with my work? Wish there was a better way than license systems like this.


No

What is the iLok Cloud?
The iLok Cloud allows iLok Cloud-enabled software to be authorized without the use of an iLok USB or a machine license.
This feature requires that the computer be continuously connected to the internet during use.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

If the internet connection is lost an error message will appear after a few minutes explaining that a valid license must be present to continue ...


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## Bollen (Jan 8, 2022)

Dietz said:


> That contradicts the fact that VSL's sales quadrupled (IIRC) back in the days when the company switched from unprotected products to eLicenser.


Well, coming from the horse's mouth I will never question this again. 

But come on people, the solution is simple! Give us two licences so we can have one in the cloud and one in the dongle. That way you always have a backup! Steinberg is apparently giving us 3! 

Let's start a petition!


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## widescreen (Jan 8, 2022)

What I don't understand: I have some plug-ins with iLok and just one machine activation (for example R4 or Nimbus). But in case of a crash of my notebook I can just login into my iLok manager on my PC and simply deactivate the notebook and activate it on my PC. Why would you then lose anything at a crash of the hard drive?

Is this different than a machine license talked about here (despite it not getting an option by VSL)? Or am I missing anything?


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

widescreen said:


> What I don't understand: I have some plug-ins with iLok and just one machine activation (for example R4 or Nimbus). But in case of a crash of my notebook I can just login into my iLok manager on my PC and simply deactivate the notebook and activate it on my PC. Why would you then lose anything at a crash of the hard drive?


You can Only deactivate a machine based licence from the actual machine it‘s located on.

If you don’t have access to that machine due to hardware failure….You have no other option but to contact your developer.

Seems to me that a lot of people are using machine based licences without actually knowing how they work.


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## RSK (Jan 8, 2022)

Bollen said:


> Give us two licences so we can have one in the cloud and one in the dongle. That way you always have a backup!


Agreed. This is ideal, especially for those who work primarily on laptops.


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## Robert_G (Jan 8, 2022)

Bollen said:


> Well, coming from the horse's mouth I will never question this again.
> 
> But come on people, the solution is simple! Give us two licences so we can have one in the cloud and one in the dongle. That way you always have a backup! Steinberg is apparently giving us 3!
> 
> Let's start a petition!


100% agree with this


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## Hans-Peter (Jan 8, 2022)

khollister said:


> It would be interesting to know how this tracked with country/region. I suspect there are differences in "hobby pirates" vs "professional pirates" due to cultural norms as @jamwerks mentioned.


Let's just say that it's a different issue when public broadcast companies (as well as their contractors) start using pirated software. I've seen it in two parts of the world (yep, production department at two public broadcasters, ffs!). One of them closer to home than some might expect ...

iLok looks like the right way to go! As long as I don't have to worry about my dongles getting stolen and that all licenses can be deactivated on the missing dongle as well as restored on a replacement, I'm all for it. Never had to use it and hopefully never will. But having to regularly commute between three countries, this feature (aka ZDT insurance) is a must to me and gives me confidence to further invest into the VSL ecosystem. As long as the pricing stays reasonable.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 8, 2022)

Ok so when I see some here talking about ZDT, raises a question on myside:
There is a very generic limitation statement on the iLok website, stating that not all product vendors support ZDT and not all licenses are covered even if you have ZDT.
So you can still end up in a nightmare scenario that your licenses are just gone.
So how can I know if ZDT covers these licenses or not?
I never saw a developer advertising whether they support ZDT or not.


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## rrichard63 (Jan 8, 2022)

widescreen said:


> I can just login into my iLok manager on my PC and simply deactivate the notebook and activate it on my PC.


Have you actually done this? Or are you just assuming that it would work? @easyrider thinks it won't work.


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## widescreen (Jan 8, 2022)

easyrider said:


> You can Only deactivate a machine based licence from the actual machine it‘s located on.
> 
> If you don’t have access to that machine due to hardware failure….You have no other option but to contact your developer.
> 
> Seems to me that a lot of people are using machine based licences without actually knowing how they work.


Holy Crap, you are right, I didn't know that! I just tried to do deactivate one license from the other machine and it isn't working without the machine being online. 

As an IT guy I could not imagine that in the 2020s people would use such a tortuos way to activate licenses. It's just because it is not common in most sectors.
TeamViewer as an example is easily administrated. If machine X is offline, just assign the license to another machine Y.
Even Norton AntiVirus as a comsumer product has better abilities to deactivate machines! If the deactivated machine starts up it immediately checks that it was deactivated and asks for reactivation. If they can do it, why not iLok?? 

At least Steam is more user friendly (and THAT means something)...

When I first came in here in 2019 I was overwhelmed by the modern way composition and orchestration works these days, but it seems in case of copy protection we're still stuck in the 90s.

Why not getting a key generator and ask once a day for every library for a newly generated key? 
Or a 2 way-authentification to confirm, you're the right license holder of all your libraries at every DAW startup? 

I'm not sure if I should just laugh or cry...






Seems a little like using bank accounts, where you first have to unlock the cell phone by fingerprint, then unlock the banking software by fingerprint, then unlock the transaction by fingerprint. Three times in 10 seconds just to send 100€. Crazy enough. One fingerprint should be enough.
As analogy to here: If you lose then your cell phone your bank account is lost. If you have no insurance for that case. 
Don't you realize how crazy this is?

But I'm lucky, as VSL supports only cloud or USB dongle I have modern options to compose at my
favourite composing location on a hill 3 km away from civilization or while travelling on a train:
1. I transfer my cloud licenses to a USB dongle everytime before I leave
2. I must have my cell phone online the whole time

The future is... ...far in the future.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Have you actually done this? Or are you just assuming that it would work? @easyrider thinks it won't work.


I know it doesn’t work.

I have a licence on a machine and this machine that no longer exists in the world in my Ilok account that I can’t get back unless I contact the developer….

Its pro tools first.


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## machinesworking (Jan 8, 2022)

So personally I've never had much of a problem with any type of copy protection. Back in the day I almost lost a Logic dongle down a rain gully hole in the street when it fell off my key chain. I don't travel with my dongles. So I'm not that much of a fan. I get it that people worry, but I've never had a system drive fail before I could get software off of it, so I'm not sure why people hate drive authorization? 

Plus dongles aren't the greatest protection against deprecation, MachFive 3 is no longer being developed, as the engine is likely not longer being licensed to MOTU from UVI and UVI are producing Falcon. Machfive 3's hardware iLok CP also licenses about 9 libraries. The thing is though, that iLok license does not work on Apple Silicon Macs, M1 chips and Ilok are working for the most part but it seems some methods are not. So M53 would have to be updated to modern iLok standards, which means someone want's money to update, which MOTU have no reason to want to do at all. So Zero Down Time isn't helping there, and without any fanfare, iLok is a much worse copy protection method in this case than hardware activation. Though of course a truly dead library isn't going to be updated for M1 Macs either I get that, I'm not getting Camel Audio Alchemy etc.


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## khollister (Jan 8, 2022)

widescreen said:


> But I'm lucky, as VSL supports only cloud or USB dongle I have modern options to compose at my
> favourite composing location on a hill 3 km away from civilization or while travelling on a train:
> 1. I transfer my cloud licenses to a USB dongle everytime before I leave
> 2. I must have my cell phone online the whole time
> ...


Why not just leave everything on the dongle and move it? I really think most of the anxiety over iLok dongles is a knee-jerk "Dongles Suck" rooted in ancient history rather than experience with current iLok's. 

The gen 3 iLok is small, rugged and can be moved between machines without even needing to eject it like a USB thumb drive. With a ZDT/TLC subscription (only $30/yr) you have 100% security and near instantaneous disaster recovery if you have a blank spare iLok on hand. As to "using up a USB port", I'm sure most of us are using at least one USB hub due to the sheer number of USB devices involved in computer music, so 1 more USB widget isn't a show stopper. Unlike the bad old days, modern iLok's are very forgiving of how they are connected (daisy chained hubs) and unlike the eLicenser, don't randomly decide to stop working unless they are disconnected and reconnected. 

Given we are going to have some form of CP, I fail to understand what the practical issue is aside from "It's a dongle!". 

I do think VSL should consider offering an additional license or 2 (like many devs) for their VEP customers, but that is a completely different issue.


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## khollister (Jan 8, 2022)

machinesworking said:


> Plus dongles aren't the greatest protection against deprecation, MachFive 3 is no longer being developed, as the engine is likely not longer being licensed to MOTU from UVI and UVI are producing Falcon. Machfive 3's hardware iLok CP also licenses about 9 libraries. *The thing is though, that iLok license does not work on Apple Silicon Macs*, M1 chips and Ilok are working for the most part but it seems some methods are not.


Wrong - I have Eventide plugins working natively, EW HOOPUS running natively, Liquidsonic/Reverb Foundry beta versions, and a ton of other legacy stuff that runs just fine with iLok in Rosetta (Soundtoys, Lexicon PCM, Soothe2, Gulfoss, Relab, Adaptaverb, etc).


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## Jose7822 (Jan 8, 2022)

The only people I feel have a legitimate reason to complain about dongles are laptop users, and that’s only because even iLok 3 is not that small and could cause damage if not handled properly (then again, it’s no different than having any other USB device connected to the laptop). Everyone else is just complaining since they don’t have any experience with iLok, and it shows given the comments and questions being asked.

I’ve been using iLok for over 10 years and I‘ve NEVER, not once, had problems with it. In fact, I prefer it over other copy protection methods since I only need to plug it into my computer and everything is ready to go. No need to enter serial numbers for every product I use, which makes things super simple when I reformat my system (which I do at least once a year).

Since I’m just a hobbyist, I‘m not subscribed to ZDT, but I would totally get it if I was working professionally as a composer. $30 USD a year is nothing for the peace of mind that it offers.

All that said, I do agree that it would be nice to have more than 1 license available. That does have its perks. Add another vote for multiple licenses from VSL.


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## jcrosby (Jan 8, 2022)

RSK said:


> Agreed. This is ideal, especially for those who work primarily on laptops.


Agreed. As a rule of thumb I try and only buy from developers that offer two licenses. I think there's a total of three developers I've purchased from in the past couple years that only offer one. Early on I bought from a few that had single licenses but now offer two, Sonnox, SSL, probably a couple others OTTOMH. Basically developers that only offer a single license seem to be in the minority these days, and by a reasonable margin...

I also personally consider an 'additional' ilok cloud license still a single license. It's still unreliable for a lot of reasons. There've been ilok server outages in the past, and the whole cloud concept doesn't account for connection issues. While these things are rare, life has a way of tossing these scenarios in your lap at the least convenient time, so I personally have never used cloud short of trying it a few times early on. I hate the thing.

It'd be nice if VSL took the time to research and consider offering two physical licenses with the cloud option for those that want it... For years VEP gave you 3 licenses at the time of purchase, and they could still sell additional licenses for people running more than one server.


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## rgames (Jan 8, 2022)

Jose7822 said:


> The only people I feel have a legitimate reason to complain about dongles are laptop users, and that’s only because even iLok 3 is not that small and could cause damage if not handled properly


Even that is not an issue. I fly 60,000 - 80,000 miles a year carrying my laptop and USB dongles with me all the time. I work on airplanes, in hotels, in airports, in bars, in restaurants, etc. and have never had an issue over the course of a few decades doing that.

Just get one of those USB hubs on a short cable and use it as an uberdongle. You'll never damage your dongles.

rgames


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## machinesworking (Jan 8, 2022)

khollister said:


> Wrong - I have Eventide plugins working natively, EW HOOPUS running natively, Liquidsonic/Reverb Foundry beta versions, and a ton of other legacy stuff that runs just fine with iLok in Rosetta (Soundtoys, Lexicon PCM, Soothe2, Gulfoss, Relab, Adaptaverb, etc).


 None of what you said has anything to do with my point, iLok is another layer of cost period, so another reason that MachFive 3 libraries will probably never work on M1, because MachFive is dead and will never work on M1. It's very possible if it was using regular copy protection schemes, those libraries would work on M1. I have plenty of iLok libraries working on M1, none of them are deprecated and none of them require an update to the iLok license to work.


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## Trash Panda (Jan 8, 2022)

khollister said:


> Why not just leave everything on the dongle and move it? I really think most of the anxiety over iLok dongles is a knee-jerk "Dongles Suck" rooted in ancient history rather than experience with current iLok's.


No, this dismissive statement is entirely incorrect. Dongles are an inconvenience not everyone is willing to deal with. 

Aside from the fact that you’re far more likely to lose a dongle than have a computer fail in daily use, it’s far more convenient to use machine activations. 

If I’m working on my machine upstairs and have to move to my laptop downstairs for whatever reason, what is easier? Running back upstairs to fetch the dongle, transferring the cloud session (assuming the server or internet aren’t having issues), or just opening the DAW and using the software?

All people are asking for is the option to reduce the inconvenience of copy protection. I understand and respect the value to the company to have it in place. I don’t respect stubbornly sticking to customer unfriendly, technological Stone Age copy protection methods. 

Why not embed the license code in a printed manual if you’re going to insist on living in the past. 🙄

The fact is, competitors make it easy for customers to use their products. Not doing so for whatever ill thought out reasoning simply drives customers to those competitors. 

VSL has some cool stuff that I would like to make use of, but no software is worth dealing with the hassle of a dongle or cloud iLok.


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## ShidoStrife (Jan 8, 2022)

rgames said:


> Even that is not an issue. I fly 60,000 - 80,000 miles a year carrying my laptop and USB dongles with me all the time. I work on airplanes, in hotels, in airports, in bars, in restaurants, etc. and have never had an issue over the course of a few decades doing that.
> 
> Just get one of those USB hubs on a short cable and use it as an uberdongle. You'll never damage your dongles.
> 
> rgames


This is exactly what I do with my elicenser. But my clumsy ass has lost countless USB drives, and I have forgotten my elicenser on my desk several times. There's a higher chance of me losing my dongle than a hard drive failure. Doesn't mean dongle is bad, if it works for you, it works. But personally if there's machine-activation, I WILL take it.


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## Ben (Jan 8, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> No, this dismissive statement is entirely incorrect. Dongles are an inconvenience not everyone is willing to deal with.
> 
> Aside from the fact that you’re far more likely to lose a dongle than have a computer fail in daily use, it’s far more convenient to use machine activations.
> 
> ...


With iLok we will be finally able to offer a cloud based protection for users that don't want to use the USB key. Since we announced our plans to migrate to iLok I have tested the cloud with the plugins I own and that support that option, and I had a single issue working with it. Switching from one system to another one is just 3 or 4 clicks - just as simple as using a USB key.
The only downside is the need for a constant internet connection - I don't know what else is so bad about the iLok Cloud.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

Ben said:


> With iLok we will be finally able to offer a cloud based protection for users that don't want to use the USB key. Since we announced our plans to migrate to iLok I have tested the cloud with the plugins I own and that support that option, and I had a single issue working with it. Switching from one system to another one is just 3 or 4 clicks - just as simple as using a USB key.
> The only downside is the need for a constant internet connection - I don't know what else is so bad about the iLok Cloud.


It’s doesn’t work when the ilok cloud service is down.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)




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## Ben (Jan 8, 2022)

easyrider said:


> It’s doesn’t work when the ilok cloud service is down.


True, but it happened only once during a time where I wanted to work with a plugin, and even then it was back online again in a short time. If you can't risk this the iLok USB key is the way to go.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 8, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Aside from the fact that you’re far more likely to lose a dongle than have a computer fail in daily use, it’s far more convenient to use machine activations.


Not really a fact - I've never lost a dongle in 20+ years. On the other hand, my computer has failed a few times in that period of time.

I really don't understand the anger on what VSL chooses for copy protection. There are many other developers to choose from if the copy protection is so "Stone Age". There is always a minority case for any copy protection - and going to compose on a hilltop (with your computer, midi controller, hard drives, etc) is just as much of a minority case as a hard drive failing (for hard drive-based protection) or changing a computer (for machine-based protection). Developers are going to optimize for their majority set of customers - who I imagine, for sample developers, are not juggling their USB sticks while tightroping across the Grand Canyon and instead plug it in once and leave it there, or if they do work on airplanes constantly because they're DJ fucking Khaled or something, are competent adults that can keep track of their boarding pass AND a USB stick.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

Ben said:


> Ture, but it happened only once during a time where I wanted to work with a plugin, and even then it was back online again in a short time. If you can't risk this the iLok USB key is the way to go.


Agreed…but I really can’t understand how your developers can code one of the best players in the business but can’t invent a copy protection system tightly integrated with your player or something….


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 8, 2022)

Please let us not derail this thread to a general copyprotection dongle warzone.
We have enough of those already. Thanks.
And it is enough that everyone states his opinion once, there is no need to repeat it a twenty times or more.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Not really a fact - I've never lost a dongle in 20+ years. On the other hand, my computer has failed a few times in that period of time.
> 
> I really don't understand the anger on what VSL chooses for copy protection. There are many other developers to choose from if the copy protection is so "Stone Age". There is always a minority case for any copy protection - and going to compose on a hilltop (with your computer, midi controller, hard drives, etc) is just as much of a minority case as a hard drive failing (for hard drive-based protection) or changing a computer (for machine-based protection). Developers are going to optimize for their majority set of customers - who I imagine, for sample developers, are not juggling their USB sticks while tightroping across the Grand Canyon and instead plug it in once and leave it there, or if they do work on airplanes constantly because they're DJ fucking Khaled or something, are competent adults that can keep track of their boarding pass AND a USB stick.


Well Christian Henson composes on a train but he uses Spitfire Libraries….😂


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## Ben (Jan 8, 2022)

easyrider said:


> Agreed…but I really can’t understand how your developers can code one of the best players in the business but can’t invent a copy protection system tightly integrated with your player or something….


These are two completely different worlds 
And also we would like to prevent re-inventing the wheel. There is a solution that works, so after analyzing all the alternatives we decided to go for iLok (and it's already known and in use with many musicians).


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

Ben said:


> These are two completely different worlds
> And also we would like to prevent re-inventing the wheel. There is a solution that works, so after analyzing all the alternatives we decided to go for iLok (and it's already known and in use with many musicians).


That’s me told! 

I’ll get my coat 🤣


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## Virtuoso (Jan 8, 2022)

Jose7822 said:


> even iLok 3 is not that small and could cause damage if not handled properly


It's a lot smaller than iLok 1!!


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## Jose7822 (Jan 8, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> It's a lot smaller than iLok 1!!



Sure, but it still sticks out quite a bit even so.

BTW, I have ZERO qualms with iLok. I was simply putting myself in the shoes of other people who might have a legitimately issue with dongles, and to me those are people using laptops (which is probably not a vast majority of the members in these forums given how many sample libraries we all have). When you’re on the move, you’re constantly connecting/disconnecting the iLok, which increases the chances of it getting lost, or breaking if you’re not careful.

Even then, Ben has already mentioned using the cloud for those who prefer not using a dongle. If all these options are not to their liking, then I guess VSL is not the product for those people. I mean, we’re talking about VSL moving from one dongle to another. It’s not like they were dongleless and now decided to go with iLok 🤷🏼‍♂️.


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## machinesworking (Jan 8, 2022)

This all begs the question. There has been discussion of two licenses, so if that comes to fruition then you can have your plugged in at home and when you're out on the road etc. use the cloud. IMO this is just fine. I have one cloud service iLok license and yes, the server has gone down, IMO it's not super reliable, but great for a backup or on the road etc.

Even if they only allow once license, it's possible they offer the ability to transfer between the cloud and the dongle, that would be the best option IMO.


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## rgames (Jan 9, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Aside from the fact that you’re far more likely to lose a dongle than have a computer fail in daily use


The only way that's a fact is if you're talking about 5-year-olds. But I don't think that's the demographic that VSL is after...

The dongle discussion always fascinates me.


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## robgb (Jan 9, 2022)

Bollen said:


> My sample libraries? Absolutely! My HD with the OS? Nope, and I know I should... I have a backup from when I first installed it so in case of catastrophic failure I can get on Amazon, get an HD delivered overnight and be back at work in a few hours. But the licences would be lost!!!


Well, yes, you should backup your hard drive. That's a given. If those licenses were lost, you'd have no one to blame but yourself, I'm afraid. I once lost 30,000 words of a 100,000 word novel that was due to the publishing house in a week, because I didn't bother with backups. I learned my lesson the hard way.


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## robgb (Jan 9, 2022)

jamwerks said:


> For those who wonder how VSL can deliver such diamond quality libraries and software, at such a low price.


I'd argue with the second half of that sentence. There's nothing low about VSL's prices.



rgames said:


> The dongle discussion always fascinates me.


My problem with dongles has nothing to do with losing it. It's that they take up precious hardware slots that I'd like to reserve for additional hard drives, and they serve no purpose for the end user, existing only to protect the manufacturer. Dongle failure can also be an issue. If you have unlimited USB slots, more power to you, but most users don't. If the dongle benefitted the end user in some way, it would be a different story, but it doesn't, so it's not.


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## robgb (Jan 9, 2022)

Ben said:


> It depends on if the developer allows this. Our paid products will be able to be run in the cloud.
> You can check it in the iLok License Manager - if the cloud icon is highlighted, you can move the license to your cloud account.


I have resisted getting VSL libraries because of the dongle, so this is good news.


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## machinesworking (Jan 9, 2022)

rgames said:


> The only way that's a fact is if you're talking about 5-year-olds. But I don't think that's the demographic that VSL is after...
> 
> The dongle discussion always fascinates me.


What fascinates me is when people make absolute statements that sound like fact, but are easily disproven. I suppose this is true to a degree with both assertions, but I do find it curious that you would go so far, when there’s a running joke among men that their partners always set up a bowl or spot etc. for their wallet, keys, etc. If you‘re frequently moving an iLok it’s a concern, personally I Avoid moving it. Like I mentioned I watched a Emagic Logic key fall off my keychain, then land 1/2” away from the storm drain grill. That’s my luck, a dongle made to go on a keychain somehow slides off the dammed thing after exiting my truck.


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## Bollen (Jan 10, 2022)

robgb said:


> Well, yes, you should backup your hard drive. That's a given. If those licenses were lost, you'd have no one to blame but yourself, I'm afraid. I once lost 30,000 words of a 100,000 word novel that was due to the publishing house in a week, because I didn't bother with backups. I learned my lesson the hard way.


I think you missed one of the posts above. The licences are tied to the HD serial, so backing up is useless to save them in case of failure. As for my music files (Dorico, Cubase) they're uploaded to the cloud as I work.


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## robgb (Jan 10, 2022)

Bollen said:


> I think you missed one of the posts above. The licences are tied to the HD serial, so backing up is useless to save them in case of failure. As for my music files (Dorico, Cubase) they're uploaded to the cloud as I work.


Hmm. It's my understanding is that the Elicenser is tied to your identity, your Steinberg account. I would imagine it's the same for iLok. I know they have cloud licensing. Which licenses are tied to the HD serial?


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## Bollen (Jan 10, 2022)

robgb said:


> Hmm. It's my understanding is that the Elicenser is tied to your identity, your Steinberg account. I would imagine it's the same for iLok. I know they have cloud licensing. Which licenses are tied to the HD serial?


The machine activation ones.


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## PaulieDC (Jan 10, 2022)

easyrider said:


>


That incident report isn’t an actually an iLok problem, it’s in Amazon Web Services problem, as shown in the second line. That affects WAY more things than some music company’s software.

But, your post brings up a question that I’m not clear on yet: will VSL’s new licensing use the online verification like EastWest does, or are we still tied to a USB stick like Lexicon and other companies require? I ask this because people are posting photos of dongles, which would make an AWS outage a non-issue. But it’s pointless for VSL to move to iLok and keep the dongle requirement, might as well stay where they are.

And yes, the dongle has to go for one reason, it’s 2022, not 1999, and a good number of us have a 2nd machine such as a laptop and two installs is mandatory now. There’s so much talk about making our workflow efficient and seamless and all that, so having to remember to physically swap a USB stick between machines doesn’t really seem to fall under that category, and it doesn’t seem like much to swap back and forth (ugh) until the one important day when you need to take your laptop somewhere and you forget that thing. That’s my only beef about dongles.


----------



## rrichard63 (Jan 10, 2022)

Tralen said:


> Machine activations are usually tied to the machine, using the MAC address


The key word here is "usually". My understanding is that machine authorization/activation schemes can be based on various combinatiions of MAC address and/or CPU serial number and/or hard drive serial number and/or several other things. What happens to your license as a result of any given hardware failure depends on which of these identifiers the scheme uses.

EDIT: I don't know what attribute or attributes iLok uses.


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## Tralen (Jan 10, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> The key word here is "usually". My understanding is that machine authorization/activation schemes can be based on various combinatiions of MAC address and/or CPU serial number and/or hard drive serial number and/or several other things.


Yeah, I was reading about iLok and saw that it gets quite complicated, so I deleted the post to not give false information.


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## robgb (Jan 10, 2022)

Bollen said:


> The machine activation ones.


Where are you getting this information? I have multiple iLok machine activated licenses and they are all tied to my name (and my iLok account), not my HD serial number. At least there's no indication that the serial number is in play.


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## mussnig (Jan 10, 2022)

robgb said:


> Where are you getting this information? I have multiple iLok machine activated licenses and they are all tied to my name (and my iLok account), not my HD serial number. At least there's no indication that the serial number is in play.


I didn’t find this written explicitly but from the iLok FAQ:
"I bought a new computer and some of my licenses are still on the old computer that I no longer have access to! How do I get them to my new computer? 

Because the licenses are tied to the old computer, there is no way to deactivate the licenses without access to the computer. Since we do not have the authority to distribute additional licenses, you will need to contact the software publisher for help with this.

Understand that the software publishers are the only ones capable of licensing their products. PACE merely builds the infrastructure for the software publishers to distribute their products in the way that is consistent with their licensing terms."


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## robgb (Jan 10, 2022)

mussnig said:


> I didn’t find this written explicitly but from the iLok FAQ:
> "I bought a new computer and some of my licenses are still on the old computer that I no longer have access to! How do I get them to my new computer?
> 
> Because the licenses are tied to the old computer, there is no way to deactivate the licenses without access to the computer. Since we do not have the authority to distribute additional licenses, you will need to contact the software publisher for help with this.
> ...


So when I cloned my HD to an SSD drive and booted from that, why did all my iLok machine activated licenses still work? Maybe I'm confused about this, but if they are tied to the HD serial number, they shouldn't work, should they?


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## Ben (Jan 10, 2022)

robgb said:


> So when I cloned my HD to an SSD drive and booted from that, why did all my iLok machine activated licenses still work? Maybe I'm confused about this, but if they are tied to the HD serial number, they shouldn't work, should they?


I never said iLok's machine authentication uses the HDD for identification - it's just one of the commonly used parameters. Most systems use more then one and the exact composition is kept secret.
I have no idea how iLok's machine authentication works on a technical level, and I don't want to know - keeps me save when posting online


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## rnb_2 (Jan 10, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> That incident report isn’t an actually an iLok problem, it’s in Amazon Web Services problem, as shown in the second line. That affects WAY more things than some music company’s software.
> 
> But, your post brings up a question that I’m not clear on yet: will VSL’s new licensing use the online verification like EastWest does, or are we still tied to a USB stick like Lexicon and other companies require? I ask this because people are posting photos of dongles, which would make an AWS outage a non-issue. But it’s pointless for VSL to move to iLok and keep the dongle requirement, might as well stay where they are.
> 
> And yes, the dongle has to go for one reason, it’s 2022, not 1999, and a good number of us have a 2nd machine such as a laptop and two installs is mandatory now. There’s so much talk about making our workflow efficient and seamless and all that, so having to remember to physically swap a USB stick between machines doesn’t really seem to fall under that category, and it doesn’t seem like much to swap back and forth (ugh) until the one important day when you need to take your laptop somewhere and you forget that thing. That’s my only beef about dongles.


VSL will support iLok key (dongle) or iLok Cloud - number of activations is unknown at this point, but it was only one with eLicenser. Personally, I'm hoping they go to two activations, so we can do Cloud+Key, but time will tell.


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## ptram (Jan 10, 2022)

Hi Ben,

A few days ago I was asking if our custom presets will be immediately read by the new players, and if they can immediately replace the old with the new samples.



Ben said:


> They should still work - but I'll make sure to check this as well


As you may guess, this is one of those questions that can keep one up at night, considering the amount of work needed to create the presets for these huge libraries.

If this has been made clear, it would be reassuring to know we shouldn't worry.

Paolo


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## Vulcan (Jan 10, 2022)

Question about the changeover: I have a project in Cubase. A track is with the synchron-player of a library with e-licenser. Another track is with the synchron-player of a library with i-lok, this requires a modified synchron player.
Can I use both tracks in the project at the same time, i.e. two different synchron players? Or can I only have one player-version at a time use, either with the e-licenser or with the i-lok?


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## Marcus Millfield (Jan 10, 2022)

Vulcan said:


> Question about the changeover: I have a project in Cubase. A track is with the synchron-player of a library with e-licenser. Another track is with the synchron-player of a library with i-lok, this requires a modified synchron player.
> Can I use both tracks in the project at the same time, i.e. two different synchron players? Or can I only have one player-version at a time use, either with the e-licenser or with the i-lok?



This is what Ben said about this in another thread:

1. You can start the transition at any point. There is no need to transition on day one, your eLicenser will keep working until it breaks.
2. If you have the space on your drive you can download and install all libraries while working with the old ones. The only disruption that must happen is the update of the sample player.
This also means you will be able to first move you Synchron Pianos, then VI libraries, then the Synchron libraries...
3. As long as the samples are not deleted yet, rolling back to eLicenser is simply a reinstall of the sample player. Same goes for the software.


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## Vulcan (Jan 10, 2022)

Thanks for the answer. Again for clarification:
Can I only ever use one player-version in the project, either with the e-licenser or the i-lok?
Yes or no?


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## Ben (Jan 10, 2022)

Only one variant can be used / be installed at the same time.


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## Vulcan (Jan 10, 2022)

Oh shit. That should be changed for the transition period.


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## Tralen (Jan 10, 2022)

robgb said:


> So when I cloned my HD to an SSD drive and booted from that, why did all my iLok machine activated licenses still work? Maybe I'm confused about this, but if they are tied to the HD serial number, they shouldn't work, should they?


Old machine authorization systems used just the MAC address (network card serial) so the HD exchange would work. iLok uses something more complicated though, from what I've read it is a combination of hardware information, but it might not use the HD.

In any case, if it is machine activated, the licenses are tied somehow to the machine, not to your name, from iLok's perspective. From the perspective of the product developers it would still be tied to your name, as they are the ones with the purchase information.


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## Ben (Jan 10, 2022)

Vulcan said:


> Oh shit. That should be changed for the transition period.


Sorry, it's not possible to have both installed at the same time as well as having old project compatibility. We think project compatibility is far more important, so you can't have the same plugin installed as eLicenser and iLok side by side.


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## Mark Schmieder (Jan 11, 2022)

If we have personal presets, will they still work after the switch, or do we need to write down all our settings to recreate them manually after switching to the iLok libraries?

This applies to all players, but in Synchron it especially applies to mic mixes.


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## EgM (Jan 11, 2022)

I’m pretty sure our VI / Synchron presets will be maintained as well as plugin recall within projects otherwise it would be a major pain in the butt


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## kitekrazy (Jan 11, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> VSL will support iLok key (dongle) or iLok Cloud - number of activations is unknown at this point, but it was only one with eLicenser. Personally, I'm hoping they go to two activations, so we can do Cloud+Key, but time will tell.


If that happens I'll be a VSL fanboy more than now.


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## kitekrazy (Jan 11, 2022)

Ben said:


> I never said iLok's machine authentication uses the HDD for identification - it's just one of the commonly used parameters. Most systems use more then one and the exact composition is kept secret.
> I have no idea how iLok's machine authentication works on a technical level, and I don't want to know - keeps me save when posting online


I learned my lesson to use iLok dongles instead of the software activation. I had to clone a drive because of failure and had to contact the vendors to reset licenses. Looking back I should have removed the licenses but now I put them all on the dongle.


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## UDun (Jan 12, 2022)

In my case, I will be moving all licenses from one dongle (elicenser) to another one (ilok) 😅 I hope the process will be smooth because I hardly see any benefit except if I misunderstood something. Only thing I know is that we will have to download everything again (a lot ! since I fully moved to VSL recently), backup everything, hope the presets still work fine for my template and test everything (bug, performance ...). I don't even mention Cubase upgrade planned soon which will for sure make everything 'more fun'. Basically a lot of maintenance work i would have loved to skip (even if i understand the benefits of moving to ilok for VSL and some other users).


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## rrichard63 (Jan 12, 2022)

If I understand correctly, the eLicenser and iLok versions of the players cannot coexist on the same computer. Therefore, when you download and install the new versions of your libraries, you will have to do it all at once rather than moving them to iLok one at a time as they get re-downloaded. In addition, you will have to have enough unused disk space to store a second copy of your entire VSL collection once it is downloaded and until you make the switch.

Someone please correct me if this is wrong.


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## rrichard63 (Jan 12, 2022)

Once the new iLok versions of the players are available, will bug fixes and updates continued to be made to the eLicenser versions, or will all future improvements only be available for the iLok versions?


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## Ben (Jan 12, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Once the new iLok versions of the players are available, will bug fixes and updates continued to be made to the eLicenser versions, or will all future improvements only be available for the iLok versions?


Once we moved to iLok the eLicenser based software and libraries will not get any updates.


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## rrichard63 (Jan 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> Once we moved to iLok the eLicenser based software and libraries will not get any updates.


Updating to iLok isn't going to be feasible for me unless I spend almost $400 US for the three hard drives. Given the VSL products I have, I would need all three.

This is ironic, because I much prefer iLok to eLicenser. But I don't think I'm going to spend $400 on it. And I know that I'm not going to wait through something like a half a terabyte of downloads over an 8 megabit internet connection. (Half a terabyte is a guess based on the uncompressed size of my collection, which is about 1.1 terabytes.)


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## Ben (Jan 12, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> To follow up on this, my understanding is that a few libraries, for examplel the Synchron pianos and Synchron harp, have their own players. Will I be able to use the iLok version of the Synchron Harp while continuing to use the eLicenser versions of my other VSL products at the same time? (I haven't download the eLicenser version of the Harp yet.)


Yes!


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## muziksculp (Jan 12, 2022)

Hi @Ben 

Q. Are the e-licenser licenses in my VSL account what the new iLok VSL system licenses will be based upon, so the ones in my VSL Home Account will be given a corresponding iLok license ? 

Just wanted to double check on this detail. Since I wasn't sure if it is based on my VSL account, or e-Licenser account registered licenses ? 

Thanks.


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## rrichard63 (Jan 15, 2022)

If I recall correctly, somewhere in the first 31 pages of this thread there is a statement about why VSL is changing the data file format so that we have to re-download everything. But I can't find that post now. Can someone link to it? Thanks in advance!


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## ptram (Jan 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Updating to iLok isn't going to be feasible for me unless I spend almost $400 US for the three hard drives. Given the VSL products I have, I would need all three.


A single 2TB external HDD costs way less. I see models costing as low as 70 €.

Paolo


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## Ben (Jan 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> If I recall correctly, somewhere in the first 31 pages of this thread there is a statement about why VSL is changing the data file format so that we have to re-download everything. But I can't find that post now. Can someone link to it? Thanks in advance!


We switch over to iLok 
I can't say much more, but the content needs to be re-downloaded.


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## rrichard63 (Jan 15, 2022)

ptram said:


> A single 2TB external HDD costs way less. I see models costing as low as 70 €.
> 
> Paolo


Yes. But VSL's website says that they are going to charge me almost $400 US to send me three hard drives with all of my content on them.






FAQ: General | VSL - Tutorials







www.vsl.info


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## Ben (Jan 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Yes. But VSL's website says that they are going to charge me almost $400 US to send me three hard drives with all of my content on them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We'll see what we can do about the hard-drives. I know that my colleagues are looking into this.
Additional information regarding this will be made public with the iLok release.


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## rrichard63 (Jan 15, 2022)

Ben said:


> I can't say much more


Without any other information, I have to assume that implementing IP protection is done entirely within the player software and its communication with a dongle and/or cloud database and/or machine identifiers. The files containing the sample data have nothing to do with it.

I can think of two possible reasons why what I just said would not be true. One is that the sample data is, in fact, part of the protection scheme. For example, maybe the sample file format is encrypted using the license number as an encryption key. Even then, you would think that VSL could work out a means of getting from the new iLok license key to the old eLicenser key needed to unlock the data.

The other reason is that VSL is using the transition to iLok as an occasion to implement other design changes. For example, maybe the sample file format is being changed to improve load times or get some other benefit. That would, of course, be an upgrade and possibly worth spending time or money on.

Please keep in mind that I am asking these questions because I have an 8 megabit internet connection, with little prospect of increasing that speed any time soon, and limited funds to pay for upgrading.


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## ism (Jan 15, 2022)

@Ben If I have registered licences, but have lost my key, will there still be the possibility to transfer these licences to the new system?


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## Ben (Jan 15, 2022)

ism said:


> @Ben If I have registered licences, but have lost my key, will there still be the possibility to transfer these licences to the new system?


Please contact [email protected]


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## ptram (Jan 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Yes. But VSL's website says that they are going to charge me almost $400 US to send me three hard drives with all of my content on them.


Oh, I see what you mean.



Ben said:


> We'll see what we can do about the hard-drives. I know that my colleagues are looking into this.


A great solution would be to receive a hard disk containing just the libraries owned by the customer. A single drive, a single shipment. It should cost way less than three smaller drives.

Paolo


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Without any other information, I have to assume that implementing IP protection is done entirely within the player software and its communication with a dongle and/or cloud database and/or machine identifiers. The files containing the sample data have nothing to do with it.
> 
> I can think of two possible reasons why what I just said would not be true. One is that the sample data is, in fact, part of the protection scheme. For example, maybe the sample file format is encrypted using the license number as an encryption key. Even then, you would think that VSL could work out a means of getting from the new iLok license key to the old eLicenser key needed to unlock the data.
> 
> ...


Your elicensed versions will continue to function. You don’t need to download again if it is such a large inconvenience at the moment.


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## Aldunate (Jan 15, 2022)

Why don’t you just go with Machine authorization?


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## rrichard63 (Jan 15, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Your elicensed versions will continue to function. You don’t need to download again if it is such a large inconvenience at the moment.


True enough -- until Steinberg pulls the plug on their eLicenser servers. I know they are promising not to do that anytime soon. But such promises have a way of getting honored in the breach rather than the observance.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> True enough -- until Steinberg pulls the plug on their eLicenser servers. I know they are promising not to do that anytime soon. But such promises have a way of getting honored in the breach rather than the observance.


Your licenses are already on your key. It doesn't matter about the servers.


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## rrichard63 (Jan 15, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Your licenses are already on your key. It doesn't matter about the servers.


I'm not sure. Somewhere I got the impression that the dongle's software has to call home occasionally. I might be wrong.

Also, dongles die of old age as well as of physical injuries.

I'll wait and see what VSL comes up with for affordable delivery on a hard drive.


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## Ben (Jan 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> I'm not sure. Somewhere I got the impression that the dongle's software has to call home occasionally. I might be wrong.


Once the license is on the eLicenser USB key it does not need an internet connection.


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## muziksculp (Jan 15, 2022)

@Ben,

Does the new VSL iLok authorization system use my VSL account Licenses to port them to iLok ? or do I need to register my current VSL licenses to my e-Licenser account ? 

Thanks.


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## machinesworking (Jan 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Please keep in mind that I am asking these questions because I have an 8 megabit internet connection, with little prospect of increasing that speed any time soon, and limited funds to pay for upgrading.


 This is the sort of situation where you go to a friends house IMO. Surely you must know someone with bandwidth?


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## machinesworking (Feb 8, 2022)

Bumping, is there any kind of time frame at all for this? I'm setting up templates with the AU version on an M1 with DP and it's so messy compared to the brilliant MAS plug in VEP has on Intel. I realize the port to M1 will not happen until iLok and the port from eLicenser happens. I just have this sinking feeling as soon as I'm done with all this VSL announce the M1 version of VEP MAS.


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## timbit2006 (Feb 8, 2022)

Yeah I'd really like to know as well but for another reason, I will need 2 more VEPRO licenses but if the transition to ILok is extremely soon like most of us are assuming it will be it would be a bit wasteful to spend the 15-20 on extra e-licenser dongles.


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## Bollen (Feb 8, 2022)

Well... They've just confirmed on their forums that it's definitely happening this year. As far as the licences, apparently any VEPRO licences you own will be converted to the ilok free of charge. This will not apply to earlier versions. I suggest you subscribe to the VSL thread to stay informed: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t57384p9-Moving-from-eLicenser-to-iLok?=#post307664


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## RSK (Feb 8, 2022)

Bollen said:


> Well... They've just confirmed on their forums that it's definitely happening this year.


That's not helpful of them. LOL


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## machinesworking (Feb 9, 2022)

RSK said:


> That's not helpful of them. LOL


Yeah considering this year has barely started..... 

On to good news, I found this article with a February 2022 update at the bottom!
IMO it's likely that M1 and Windows 11 support is tied into this port to iLok, so knowing that Liquidsonics are going forward, that it should be released soon, means VSL can transfer over. 









iLok To Provide Full Native Apple Silicon Support Soon | Production Expert


Ever since Apple Silicon was announced the team at PACE have been working to get iLok to work natively on Apple Silicon computers. We have an exclusive update.




www.pro-tools-expert.com


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## rnb_2 (Feb 9, 2022)

Good news that things are progressing and that some developers have ARM-native, iLok-dependent software out in the world. I believe that @Ben has already stated that VSL is not expecting the iLok switchover and Apple Silicon to happen at the same time - the switch to iLok will happen first (with some ARM code included), followed by a full Apple Silicon release of Synchron Player later (hopefully, not too much later).


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## mixedmoods (Feb 9, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Good news that things are progressing and that some developers have ARM-native, iLok-dependent software out in the world. I believe that @Ben has already stated that VSL is not expecting the iLok switchover and Apple Silicon to happen at the same time - the switch to iLok will happen first (with some ARM code included), followed by a full Apple Silicon release of Synchron Player later (hopefully, not too much later).


I think he also mentioned that some players might get a native update even earlier.
I really hope we are talking about weeks and not months ... cant wait to use the Synchron Player with full power on my M1Pro. 
And then there is MIR 3D ... but that's another story ...


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## machinesworking (Feb 9, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Good news that things are progressing and that some developers have ARM-native, iLok-dependent software out in the world. I believe that @Ben has already stated that VSL is not expecting the iLok switchover and Apple Silicon to happen at the same time - the switch to iLok will happen first (with some ARM code included), followed by a full Apple Silicon release of Synchron Player later (hopefully, not too much later).


Sure, but no developer would want to port to a new cp system without that system being ready for them to port to a new chip architecture. I’m certain of that. I know it’s probably not how it plays out but VEP should be first


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## rnb_2 (Feb 9, 2022)

machinesworking said:


> Sure, but no developer would want to port to a new cp system without that system being ready for them to port to a new chip architecture. I’m certain of that. I know it’s probably not how it plays out but VEP should be first


Apologies - I didn't mean to suggest that. I was thinking that the two would arrive together before Ben said that they weren't - I think they wanted to tackle them separately (understandable), though I have no doubt that iLok being ready for Apple Silicon when VSL is ready to go is a big help for them.


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## machinesworking (Feb 9, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Apologies - I didn't mean to suggest that. I was thinking that the two would arrive together before Ben said that they weren't - I think they wanted to tackle them separately (understandable), though I have no doubt that iLok being ready for Apple Silicon when VSL is ready to go is a big help for them.


For sure, it's IMO logical to get the iLok port together first, then the transition to Apple Silicon, but it would never make sense to reverse that order, so one foretells the other. The only time it would make sense to my uneducated brain that someone would do both at the same time is if in this case Apple had successfully killed off all x86 builds, since they haven't I see the logic in porting their portfolio to iLok first, then Apple Silicon. 

I think you can take a reasonable wild guess that it will all happen in the next 6 months without too much pressure on the developers. Unless they have a vastly behind the times GUI framework they're using like NI. Even then NI apparently have a M1 build of Kontakt in public beta.


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## rnb_2 (Feb 9, 2022)

machinesworking said:


> Even then NI apparently have a M1 build of Kontakt in public beta.


I am as surprised as anyone that this is the case (I thought for sure it would be a Kontakt 7 thing), but can also confirm that it's true.


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## mixedmoods (Feb 9, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> I am as surprised as anyone that this is the case (I thought for sure it would be a Kontakt 7 thing), but can also confirm that it's true.


Yes, it's in Beta stage 3 at the moment and working very well.


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## samphony (Feb 9, 2022)

mixedmoods said:


> Yes, it's in Beta stage 3 at the moment and working very well.


Yes very stable!


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## machinesworking (Feb 9, 2022)

samphony said:


> Yes very stable!


 How do you get the beta? I went to the Komplete forum at NI expecting to find a thread there and nada!


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## RSK (Feb 9, 2022)

machinesworking said:


> Even then NI apparently have a M1 build of Kontakt in public beta.


Wait, what?


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## khollister (Feb 9, 2022)

RSK said:


> Wait, what?


It's not really a public beta - you have to be added to the program.


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## machinesworking (Feb 9, 2022)

RSK said:


> Wait, what?


Found it, here's the thread, read through it, an NI staffer asks you to "like" his comment and he'll add you to the beta pool. Here's a direct link hopefully. Beta Post


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## troubleclef (Feb 10, 2022)

The quicker we move away from USB dongles the better!


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## RSK (Feb 10, 2022)

machinesworking said:


> Found it, here's the thread, read through it, an NI staffer asks you to "like" his comment and he'll add you to the beta pool. Here's a direct link hopefully. Beta Post


There are no options to join the beta for Kontakt anymore, which makes me think that the release of 6.7 is imminent.


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## mixedmoods (Feb 10, 2022)

RSK said:


> There are no options to join the beta for Kontakt anymore, which makes me think that the release of 6.7 is imminent.


Yes, the moved on to RC1 stage today ...


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## Marcus Millfield (Feb 10, 2022)

troubleclef said:


> The quicker we move away from USB dongles the better!


Until either you or iLok have an issue with your internet connection and you are unable to use your licenses until it is resolved.


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## machinesworking (Feb 10, 2022)

RSK said:


> There are no options to join the beta for Kontakt anymore, which makes me think that the release of 6.7 is imminent.


Hmm? I must have just slipped in under the wire then, I "liked" the post, and a day later got the invite. 
Downloading the factory library now.


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## machinesworking (Feb 11, 2022)

Just a side note, hell is freezing over as NI are poised to beat a major sample library plug in developer to Apple Silicon. Never would have guessed that.


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## Ben (Feb 11, 2022)

machinesworking said:


> Just a side note, hell is freezing over as NI are poised to beat a major sample library plug in developer to Apple Silicon. Never would have guessed that.


Just as a side note: You are probably aware that NI is probably at least ~5-10 times bigger compared to any sample library company out there


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## RSK (Feb 11, 2022)

Ben said:


> Just as a side note: You are probably aware that NI is probably at least ~5-10 times bigger compared to any sample library company out there


Yes, and 5-10 times slower. It took them 7 years to come out with Kontakt 6.


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## Prockamanisc (Feb 11, 2022)

Ben said:


> Just as a side note: You are probably aware that NI is probably at least ~5-10 times bigger compared to any sample library company out there


And yet VSL still manages to be 5-10x higher quality.


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## RSK (Feb 11, 2022)

Prockamanisc said:


> And yet VSL still manages to be 5-10x higher quality.


Indeed.


----------



## khollister (Feb 11, 2022)

I have to say that I am beginning to be concerned about VSL's lack of even a vague indication of when we can expect native versions of their software beyond "this year". I realize the iLok transition takes priority, but even that seems to have gone from "very soon" last year to ?. Considering the first Apple Silicon Mac was released in Nov 2020 and how much money many of us have invested in VSL libraries that are the core of our workflow, I would appreciate something more concrete. Other than SINE and the perennial slackers at Avid, VSL is going to be odd man out soon (Kontakt is RC1 and Cubase is probably coming this spring or earlier).

For me personally, my concern is Cubase 12 drops and VSL and potentially UAD (who are native but refuse to commit to VST3 which would kill it in Cubase) will prevent me from running it natively. I have gone exclusively back to Logic since getting the M1 stuff, but I would like the option to use Cubase again and I'm not about to run everything with Rosetta.


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## Prockamanisc (Feb 11, 2022)

khollister said:


> I have to say that I am beginning to be concerned about VSL's lack of even a vague indication of when we can expect native versions of their software beyond "this year". I realize the iLok transition takes priority, but even that seems to have gone from "very soon" last year to ?. Considering the first Apple Silicon Mac was released in Nov 2020 and how much money many of us have invested in VSL libraries that are the core of our workflow, I would appreciate something more concrete. Other than SINE and the perennial slackers at Avid, VSL is going to be odd man out soon (Kontakt is RC1 and Cubase is probably coming this spring or earlier).
> 
> For me personally, my concern is Cubase 12 drops and VSL and potentially UAD (who are native but refuse to commit to VST3 which would kill it in Cubase) will prevent me from running it natively. I have gone exclusively back to Logic since getting the M1 stuff, but I would like the option to use Cubase again and I'm not about to run everything with Rosetta.


I mean...do you remember Synchron Strings I? And the release of their Synchron Player? It took well over a year. I forget how much I paid for the library when it was first released, but it was basically sitting on my drive for over a year without use, because the Synchron Player took sooooo long. But whatever, time goes on. Now that's ancient history. Ilok will happen when it happens, and our lives will change very little. Celebrate your last remaining months with your eLicenser.


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## jonathanwright (Feb 11, 2022)

khollister said:


> I realize the iLok transition takes priority, but even that seems to have gone from "very soon" last year to ?.


I downloaded the new Soundtoys Silicon beta earlier today, and when I opened the iLok app afterwards I was surprised to get a prompt to download the native version of that too. It's installed and works fine.


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## khollister (Feb 11, 2022)

jonathanwright said:


> I download the new Soundtoys Silicon beta earlier today, and when I opened the iLok app afterwards I was surprised to get a prompt to download the native version of that too. It's installed and works fine.


Same here. The iLok transition I was referring to above was the eLicenser to iLok change by VSL


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## RSK (Feb 11, 2022)

khollister said:


> I have to say that I am beginning to be concerned about VSL's lack of even a vague indication of when we can expect native versions of their software beyond "this year". I realize the iLok transition takes priority, but even that seems to have gone from "very soon" last year to ?. Considering the first Apple Silicon Mac was released in Nov 2020 and how much money many of us have invested in VSL libraries that are the core of our workflow, I would appreciate something more concrete. Other than SINE and the perennial slackers at Avid, VSL is going to be odd man out soon (Kontakt is RC1 and Cubase is probably coming this spring or earlier).


It's interesting to me that they chose to put the iLok transition before the M1 native Synchron Player, as the iLok is dependent upon a third party they have little control over. The development of the Synchron Player is all VSL.

Honestly, I think it comes down to finance. Neither of those projects would be revenue-generating, so they bought some time by saying the M1 version would come after the iLok transistion; time that they used to put out some more libraries. 

Somewhat inconvenient for me (and a few others, I imagine) but I can hardly fault them for it.


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## Ben (Feb 11, 2022)

While M1 is quite a nice platform, the userbase is smaller compared the current Mac-Intel userbase - not to mention the entire Windows userbase.
As both transitions can't happen at the same time, we would have to delay the iLok transition. As more people will benefit from the iLok transition it makes sense to prioritize it.
Also, if we did M1 first we would have to optimize/test it for eLicenser, just before we switch to another system, where we have to optimize/test it again.

Right now we are working on iLok. As soon as this is done native M1 support will be high on our list.
The iLok transition will happen soon, so please have a little more patience with us


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## machinesworking (Feb 11, 2022)

Ben said:


> Just as a side note: You are probably aware that NI is probably at least ~5-10 times bigger compared to any sample library company out there


It's mostly that NI are notorious for not doing due diligence in terms of keeping their software up to date with modern code. They took forever to get from PPC to Intel. They admitted recently to using a 15 year old GUI framework so I'm a bit surprised Kontakt is almost ready. It's just a bit surprising they actually are getting it done, and I agree they should be able to get it done before everybody really, but that's not been how it's worked. i.e. I wasn't trying to dog you guys, mostly jabbing NI.


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## Jose7822 (Feb 11, 2022)

Let’s give them some time guys. It’s better to wait than to have them release it full of bugs. Not to mention that what Ben said made total sense. It would be silly of them to test for a protocol they’re phasing out.


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## Frederick (Feb 13, 2022)

@Ben: This question has probably been answered before, but I want to make sure that I won't have to do double work: Is it safe to redo my Synchron template (also based on VEPro 7 and MIR Pro) now before the move to iLok, or will I be at risk of having to do it again after the migration to iLok? 

My interpretation so far is that the player has to be replaced by the iLok version and all libraries will have to be redownloaded (with a new download tool), but it won't affect the templates, because the player is 100% compatible (accept for the security part). Is this indeed the case?


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## Ben (Feb 13, 2022)

Frederick said:


> My interpretation so far is that the player has to be replaced by the iLok version and all libraries will have to be redownloaded (with a new download tool), but it won't affect the templates, because the player is 100% compatible (accept for the security part). Is this indeed the case?


Yes!


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## bbrylow (Feb 13, 2022)

machinesworking said:


> Just a side note, hell is freezing over as NI are poised to beat a major sample library plug in developer to Apple Silicon. Never would have guessed that.


NI are a huge global conglomerate. They dwarf every other company out there in the industry. Not to mention the fact that M1 is brand new and the vast majority of the market is windows and Intel-based Mac platforms who are anxiously awaiting iLok and freedom from the lackluster Steinberg technology. This is a much bigger bang for their buck to get us there first


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## liquidlino (Feb 13, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> NI are a huge global conglomerate. They dwarf every other company out there in the industry. Not to mention the fact that M1 is brand new and the vast majority of the market is windows and Intel-based Mac platforms who are anxiously awaiting iLok and freedom from the lackluster Steinberg technology. This is a much bigger bang for their buck to get us there first


Not to forget there are plenty, including myself, who are holding off buying anything VSL until iLok happens. I'm hoping there will be a big sale event when iLok happens so I can start my VSL journey.


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## machinesworking (Feb 13, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> NI are a huge global conglomerate. They dwarf every other company out there in the industry. Not to mention the fact that M1 is brand new and the vast majority of the market is windows and Intel-based Mac platforms who are anxiously awaiting iLok and freedom from the lackluster Steinberg technology. This is a much bigger bang for their buck to get us there first


Your'e also not realizing that not matter how big NI may be, they're notorious for glacial upkeep of their software for OS changes etc. It was much longer than this for PPC to Intel Mac support. 

The comment was more about being surprised NI is getting one of their plug ins to M1 in the first place.


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## bbrylow (Feb 13, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> Not to forget there are plenty, including myself, who are holding off buying anything VSL until iLok happens. I'm hoping there will be a big sale event when iLok happens so I can start my VSL journey.


Why would there be a big sale when iLok happens? The technology has been around as long as the ELicenser. It’s actually a positive just to get away from that.


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## RSK (Feb 14, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> Why would there be a big sale when iLok happens? The technology has been around as long as the ELicenser. It’s actually a positive just to get away from that.


Agreed. Changing your authentication scheme doesn't seem like cause for a sale.


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## Robert_G (Feb 14, 2022)

RSK said:


> Agreed. Changing your authentication scheme doesn't seem like cause for a sale.


What??? The fact that the sun rises each day is cause for a sale.


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## jbuhler (Feb 14, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> What??? The fact that the sun rises each day is cause for a sale.


Well, VSL is no 8dio, but the point still stands.


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## RSK (Feb 14, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> What??? The fact that the sun rises each day is cause for a sale.


Only if you're 8Dio or Plugin Boutique


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## machinesworking (Feb 14, 2022)

RSK said:


> Only if you're 8Dio or Plugin Boutique


Or EW or Plugin Allience. or THE MIDI PACK


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## bbrylow (Feb 15, 2022)

machinesworking said:


> Or EW or Plugin Allience. or THE MIDI PACK


In defense of Plug-in Alliance, I think it is a competitive reaction to Waves. They seem to celebrate the lunar completion of a new 24 hour day as a reason to have a sale.


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## machinesworking (Feb 15, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> In defense of Plug-in Alliance, I think it is a competitive reaction to Waves. They seem to celebrate the lunar completion of a new 24 hour day as a reason to have a sale.


 Reminds me of downtown SF CA in the 80's, the knickknack stores on Market st. had ten year long going out of business sales.


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## Prockamanisc (Mar 8, 2022)

So, now that Cubase 12 is out, the next big thing I'm watching is VSL's shift to iLok, so I can officially (respectfully) ditch the eLicenser. Where are we at? Days? Weeks? Months?


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## Ben (Mar 8, 2022)

Prockamanisc said:


> So, now that Cubase 12 is out, the next big thing I'm watching is VSL's shift to iLok, so I can officially (respectfully) ditch the eLicenser. Where are we at? Days? Weeks? Months?


Can't wait as well!


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## jamwerks (Mar 8, 2022)

.....since we'll have to re-download everything for the switch, the fact that they had us download now the 2nd chair WW's, make me think we're at least(!) 4 weeks out??.....


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## ptram (Mar 8, 2022)

jamwerks said:


> .....since we'll have to re-download everything for the switch, the fact that they had us download now the 2nd chair WW's, make me think we're at least(!) 4 weeks out??.....


Or, it was just Viennese humor!

Paolo


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## Bollen (Mar 8, 2022)

jamwerks said:


> the fact that they had us download now the 2nd chair WW's


What??? Is this a synchron thing?


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## Ronny D. Ana (Mar 8, 2022)

Prockamanisc said:


> So, now that Cubase 12 is out, the next big thing I'm watching is VSL's shift to iLok, so I can officially (respectfully) ditch the eLicenser. Where are we at? Days? Weeks? Months?


Do not forget that some Steinberg Plugins continue to need eLicencer for some time.
If you don't have them, feel lucky


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## Piotrek K. (Mar 8, 2022)

RSK said:


> Agreed. Changing your authentication scheme doesn't seem like cause for a sale.


Until you are aware that there is certain amount of users who do not buy your stuff just because of that scheme. So "goodbye /f**k off e-licenser sale"* may be great opportunity to onboard new users.

*choose wording based on how strong your feelings towards this piece of plastic are


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## RSK (Mar 9, 2022)

Piotrek K. said:


> Until you are aware that there is certain amount of users who do not buy your stuff just because of that scheme. So "goodbye /f**k off e-licenser sale"* may be great opportunity to onboard new users.
> 
> *choose wording based on how strong your feelings towards this piece of plastic are


LOL. Yes, I suppose some folks would consider that cause for celebration.

Looking forward to it myself. I recently changed to an all-laptop config (previously I had a Mac in the studio and a MacBook Air for travel) , and having a dongle is a bigger PITA than I would have thought.


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## Flyo (Mar 9, 2022)

Yess it would be super to have a great huge sale !!! Who even wonder this for a mayor vst developer???


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## zimm83 (Mar 9, 2022)

Piotrek K. said:


> Until you are aware that there is certain amount of users who do not buy your stuff just because of that scheme. So "goodbye /f**k off e-licenser sale"* may be great opportunity to onboard new users.
> 
> *choose wording based on how strong your feelings towards this piece of plastic are


This is me !!!


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## Flyo (Mar 9, 2022)

Bring iLok support (for activation on 2 computers) and a huge sale for this to!


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## ptram (Mar 9, 2022)

Bollen said:


> What??? Is this a synchron thing?


Yes! It's 14 Flutes I, and you can emphasize the first line!

Paolo


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## heisenberg (Mar 9, 2022)

Ronny D. Ana said:


> Do not forget that some Steinberg Plugins continue to need eLicencer for some time.
> If you don't have them, feel lucky


Could you please point us towards this list of plugins, if you have access to a list.


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## dunamisstudio (Mar 9, 2022)

heisenberg said:


> Could you please point us towards this list of plugins, if you have access to a list.











Virtual Instruments & Sample Libraries


Get inspired by the best virtual instruments, new VSTs, and award-winning sample libraries that are used by so many musicians around the world.




www.steinberg.net













Expansions for Steinberg VST Instruments


Get more musical power for your favorite virtual instruments with new expansions, designed by professional sound designers and tailored to our VST instruments.




www.steinberg.net





Cubase doesn't come with a full version of Halion or Groove Agent. Also the expansions need eLicenser too. I have a couple on each page and they're on my elicenser.


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## LinusW (Mar 11, 2022)

Ben said:


> Probably soon after the iLok transition. You should already be fine using the VEP connector plugin via Rosetta.


I'd be fine running VEP servers in x64 computers or through Rosetta, but the plugin is what matters the most so people can run their DAW in native and use their other plugins in native mode.


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## samphony (Mar 11, 2022)

Exactly why i dropped everything vsl for now. 

I wanted to invest in some of the synchron stuff but without native apple silicon around the corner I’ll look elsewhere.


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## clonewar (Mar 12, 2022)

The new iLok release finally adds full native Apple silicon support. Maybe that’s what VSL has been waiting for? Hopefully this means that iLok/AS versions of all VSL software are imminent.


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## smellypants (Mar 12, 2022)

clonewar said:


> The new iLok release finally adds full native Apple silicon support. Maybe that’s what VSL has been waiting for? Hopefully this means that iLok/AS versions of all VSL software are imminent.


I'm pretty sure they are not happening at the same time, I seem to remember ilok/download manager first, Apple Silicon Native after.

Somebody correct me if i'm wrong...


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## rnb_2 (Mar 12, 2022)

smellypants said:


> I'm pretty sure they are not happening at the same time, I seem to remember ilok/download manager first, Apple Silicon Native after.
> 
> Somebody correct me if i'm wrong...


No, that's correct. Work out the kinks with iLok first, make sure that's stable, then release the native version of Synchron Player.


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## clonewar (Mar 12, 2022)

smellypants said:


> I'm pretty sure they are not happening at the same time, I seem to remember ilok/download manager first, Apple Silicon Native after.
> 
> Somebody correct me if i'm wrong...


You’re probably right, but I‘m sure that iLok not fully supporting AS has had something to do with VSL’s delay for AS support.


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## holywilly (Mar 14, 2022)

Whatever VSL does, please don’t drop support of MacOS Mojave.


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## Tookkonen (Mar 17, 2022)

iLok Cloud - the most annoying piece if garbage ever! VSL please why? Ok, dongle is so 80's but iLok Cloud even worse AND i cannot even have *both* licenses, Cloud and old dongle license. Dongle in that case when i have wifi dropouts. Machine based iLok would have been great, but cloud never. Maybe my next orchestral library purchase may not be VSL anymore.


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## Noeticus (Mar 17, 2022)

It's happening!!! I think.





__





Hello iLok - Vienna Symphonic Library







www.vsl.co.at


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## EgM (Mar 17, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Whatever VSL does, please don’t drop support of MacOS Mojave.


Apple decides this sadly, when you build an application for Mac you have to use the build tools that Apple provides against all the dependencies, i.e. AU Logic, etc


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## azeteg (Mar 18, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Whatever VSL does, please don’t drop support of MacOS Mojave.


All of our software supports 10.13 and up.


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## Piotrek K. (Mar 18, 2022)

Tookkonen said:


> Maybe my next orchestral library purchase may not be VSL anymore.


Heh, I guess you can't satisfy everyone. IMO VSL should get rid of any anti-piracy schemes and publish via torrent. I'm sure they will be able to buy a third studio after bold move like that


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## Nimrod7 (Mar 18, 2022)

The Vienna Assistant looks beautiful and really well made. 
I recall you were working on it, is that your baby @Ben?


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## Ben (Mar 18, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> The Vienna Assistant looks beautiful and really well made.
> I recall you were working on it, is that your baby @Ben?


Thanks! Yes, I was working on the project as well, but of course I was not the only one 
If you are curious, the entire team working on this is mentioned in the About section of the preferences pop-up.


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## DJiLAND (Mar 18, 2022)

The fact that MIR has been excluded this time... gives us hope to see MIR 3D soon!


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## mixedmoods (Mar 18, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> The fact that MIR has been excluded this time... gives us hope to see MIR 3D soon!


I hope so too. I use the MIR plugin in nearly every project. So I cant get rid of the E-Licenser just yet before they do the big update.


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## chrisphan (Mar 18, 2022)

I have an old Special Edition product that shows up as "not convertible to ilok" on the website. What should I do?


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## Ben (Mar 18, 2022)

chrisphan said:


> I have an old Special Edition product that shows up as "not convertible to ilok" on the website. What should I do?


Don't worry, you will get access to the entire Volume with the convertion process


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## khollister (Mar 18, 2022)

Ben said:


> Don't worry, you will get access to the entire Volume with the convertion process


Ah - so that explains why SE vol 1 showed up even though I had no recollection of buying it


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## chrisphan (Mar 18, 2022)

Ben said:


> Don't worry, you will get access to the entire Volume with the convertion process


That's great to hear! So do I just sit back and wait for now?


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## khollister (Mar 18, 2022)

@Ben - Based on file sizes, I'm assuming the previous BBO Andromeda and Capricorn Expansions (which were separate library folders) have been merged into the new iLok versions of Andromeda & Capricorn?


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## Ben (Mar 18, 2022)

khollister said:


> @Ben - Based on file sizes, I'm assuming the previous BBO Andromeda and Capricorn Expansions (which were separate library folders) have been merged into the new iLok versions of Andromeda & Capricorn?


Yes, exactly!


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## filipjonathan (Mar 18, 2022)

Ben said:


> Don't worry, you will get access to the entire Volume with the convertion process


Wait, you're saying that if we have vol 1 strings for example, we'll get access to all of the vol 1 instruments?


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## Ben (Mar 18, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> Wait, you're saying that if we have vol 1 strings for example, we'll get access to all of the vol 1 instruments?


Yes. A free upgrade to make life easier for all of us


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## filipjonathan (Mar 18, 2022)

Ben said:


> Yes. A free upgrade to make life easier for all of us


Oh wow. Thanks!


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## khollister (Mar 18, 2022)

So I have downloaded and installed almost 3TB of content with only a couple of hiccups - one Synchron Perc lib had an error installing (worked fine when I dragged the downloaded install file into VA - cool feature) and initially I had some missing libraries in VA that I had successful iLok conversions for. I sent a note to VSL Support at about 11:30PM Vienna time last night and Paul (!) responded almost immediately and got the glitch fixed in realtime with an email conversion. I really didn't expect to hear back until this morning given the hour.

Outstanding support and VA is very easy to use - nice eye candy too 

I just sent a couple minor GUI bugs to Support. Still have some content left to download, but it is stuff I don't use much and may consider selling some of it on. Also waiting on the standalone MIR Pro client before doing anything with MIR or Roompacks. MIR is the only reason I haven't thrown the eLicenser in the trash

This was a lot less painful than I feared it might be.


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## holywilly (Mar 18, 2022)

azeteg said:


> All of our software supports 10.13 and up.


Bravo!


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## khollister (Mar 18, 2022)

I will add that I consistently got about 60MBs download speeds (20 MBs per download if I had 3 download processes running) all evening and early this morning. That is pretty close to my max provisioned wideband connection (500Mbps) - impressive given what must have been the server load last night.


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## Rudianos (Mar 18, 2022)

Have to say this is the smoothest roll out I have ever seen. Fast downloads - great system compared the old one.


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## Zanshin (Mar 18, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Have to say this is the smoothest roll out I have ever seen. Fast downloads - great system compared the old one.


Agreed.

Can anyone confirm that MIR integration with VEP is working now? That's my only outstanding problem at this point.


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## Paul Kopf (Mar 19, 2022)

Hi Zanshin,

Working on teething problems there. Will be fixed asap, but I think it could take until the start of next week. Check your UPDATE tab in Vienna Assistant from time to time!

Meanwhile, you can always roll back to the eLicenser versions of VE Pro/MIR. 

Sorry for the inconvenience!

Best, Paul


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## jcrosby (Mar 19, 2022)

Paul Kopf said:


> Hi Zanshin,
> 
> Working on teething problems there. Will be fixed asap, but I think it could take until the start of next week. Check your UPDATE tab in Vienna Assistant from time to time!
> 
> ...


Hey Paul, nice seeing you here... One thing that isn't clear to me is if we can at least deposit our ilok licenses for now, and do a physical switch - (re-downloading content, uninstalling e-licneser, etc), in a few weeks when some of the kinks have been worked out?

I.e it'd be reassuring to see the licenses carry over to ilok, but continue with e-licenser until all current projects are wrapped up...


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## Paul Kopf (Mar 19, 2022)

Hi, 
Sure, that's possible. 

Not on day 3 (today), but we're enabling everybody to make the switch over the next weeks. 

Simply to keep the download possibilities at the best levels. 

License conversion literally takes a few seconds, so no worries there. 

Best, 
Paul


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## ptram (Mar 19, 2022)

Ben said:


> Don't worry, you will get access to the entire Volume with the convertion process


Thank you very much! A much appreciated gift!

Paolo


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## Virtuoso (Mar 19, 2022)

I have to say, download speeds have been amazing. 114MB/s, which is almost a fully maxed out gigabit connection! I downloaded the full Synchron Package, Big Bang Orchestra, Smart Series and a few other smaller libs in half a day - almost 4TB when installed! 

I love the design and functionality of the new Assistant, but I did have a few problems, which meant I had to babysit the downloads rather than leaving them overnight. 6 crashes and 3 full kernel panics (sudden forced reboot). It's been years since I've seen one of those! I couldn't see any pattern to the crashes - they seemed totally random. The crash reports indicated a page fault caused by Vienna Assistant.

A few stalled downloads too, where I had to pause and unpause to kick it back into life. And a couple of libraries which reached 100% but then got stuck and wouldn't install (see screenshot) - I had to quit and restart the Assistant to prompt the installation.


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## khollister (Mar 19, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> I have to say, download speeds have been amazing. 114MB/s, which is almost a fully maxed out gigabit connection! I downloaded the full Synchron Package, Big Bang Orchestra, Smart Series and a few other smaller libs in half a day - almost 4TB when installed!
> 
> I love the design and functionality of the new Assistant, but I did have a few problems, which meant I had to babysit the downloads rather than leaving them overnight. 6 crashes and 3 full kernel panics (sudden forced reboot). It's been years since I've seen one of those! I couldn't see any pattern to the crashes - they seemed totally random. The crash reports indicated a page fault caused by Vienna Assistant.
> 
> A few stalled downloads too, where I had to pause and unpause to kick it back into life. And a couple of libraries which reached 100% but then got stuck and wouldn't install (see screenshot) - I had to quit and restart the Assistant to prompt the installation.


No crashes here with 3TB worth. I had one download stall, one instance of the "stuck at 100%" and one actual failure to install. I restarted VA for the stuck at 100% and just dragged the downloaded file into VA to kick of another install attempt for the last. I'm sure I could have used the same technique for the stuck at 100% case as well.


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## Aitcpiano (Mar 19, 2022)

Wondering how licenses can be sold using the new Ilok system? Does it work in the same way as before but without having to now send of an elicenser with the licenses on?


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## DJiLAND (Mar 19, 2022)

I want them to be able to protect their products as much as possible, so if machine authentication is weak, I can understand even if they decide not to support it.


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## tmhuud (Mar 19, 2022)

Ben said:


> Please understand that I cannot talk about any details yet, but we are aware of this potential invonvenience and are already contemplating possible solutions. Too early in the process yet, but we won’t leave you hanging.


🤫


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## Virtuoso (Mar 19, 2022)

khollister said:


> No crashes here with 3TB worth. I had one download stall, one instance of the "stuck at 100%" and one actual failure to install. I restarted VA for the stuck at 100% and just dragged the downloaded file into VA to kick of another install attempt for the last. I'm sure I could have used the same technique for the stuck at 100% case as well.


I'm still up at 5:30am trying to fix this mess. I thought everything was fine at first - the 'Installed Libraries' screen doesn't show any issues - but when I fired up Synchron Player, I found several libraries missing lots of content. For example, Synchron Woodwinds only had a piccolo flute!

In some cases, Vienna Assistant just won't download the missing content (see clip below) and the only solution I've found is to delete the library and download the whole thing again. 

View attachment VA.mp4


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## khollister (Mar 19, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> I'm still up at 5:30am trying to fix this mess. I thought everything was fine at first - the 'Installed Libraries' screen doesn't show any issues - but when I fired up Synchron Player, I found several libraries missing lots of content. For example, Synchron Woodwinds only had a piccolo flute!
> 
> In some cases, Vienna Assistant just won't download the missing content (see clip below) and the only solution I've found is to delete the library and download the whole thing again.


Are the sample files missing or is the player database not pointing to the sample content correctly? The latter is easy to fix


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## Virtuoso (Mar 19, 2022)

And... it's crashed again!


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## Virtuoso (Mar 19, 2022)

khollister said:


> Are the sample files missing or is the player database not pointing to the sample content correctly? The latter is easy to fix


It looks like the assistant isn't installing the files correctly - they seem to be all in the download folder, but they're not getting installed properly to the Vienna folder. I wonder if I can just copy them over manually?


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## khollister (Mar 19, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> It looks like the assistant isn't installing the files correctly - they seem to be all in the download folder, but they're not getting installed properly to the Vienna folder. I wonder if I can just copy them over manually?


So the sample files are extracted from the single download file? If so you can move them but may need to relink them in the player database.


----------



## Ben (Mar 19, 2022)

@Virtuoso We've fixed the Synchron Orchestral Percussion I download issue. Please click on refresh in the Assistant and try again. Thanks!


----------



## Virtuoso (Mar 19, 2022)

Ben said:


> @Virtuoso We've fixed the Synchron Orchestral Percussion I download issue. Please click on refresh in the Assistant and try again. Thanks!


Great - thank you! I fixed all the others with missing parts by re-downloading, but that one just wouldn't download. I guess it was a back-end catalogue issue?


----------



## Ben (Mar 19, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> Great - thank you! I fixed all the others with missing parts by re-downloading, but that one just wouldn't download. I guess it was a back-end catalogue issue?


Yes, for whatever reason it had a wrong flag. This surprises me, because I downloaded each library myself to make sure it works...


----------



## Zanshin (Mar 19, 2022)

Ben said:


> Yes, for whatever reason it had a wrong flag. This surprises me, because I downloaded each library myself to make sure it works...


I downloaded it without problem Thursday night. I had to look just now because I thought maybe I just didn't notice the error, but all good.


----------



## Ben (Mar 19, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I downloaded it without problem Thursday night. I had to look just now because I thought maybe I just didn't notice the error, but all good.


probably cosmic rays...


----------



## holywilly (Mar 19, 2022)

@Ben 
I haven’t received any email invitation to migrate to ilok, and I just realize I have 102 licenses waiting to migrate, does that mean I’m still in the queue?


----------



## Ben (Mar 19, 2022)

Probably yes. You can also check if you see the green deposit button inMyVSL - if it's not available / deactivated you are still in Queue.


----------



## Virtuoso (Mar 19, 2022)

You should put me on the QA team - I'm very good at finding faults! 

Speaking of which...  for some reason the mouse scroll wheel (magic mouse) doesn't work in lists on the right side of the VA app (although the left side works fine) - you have to grab the scroll bar. For example, in the Component Selection bit or the right side of the Bulk Install list.

View attachment mouse wheel.mp4


----------



## Virtuoso (Mar 19, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I downloaded it without problem Thursday night. I had to look just now because I thought maybe I just didn't notice the error, but all good.


Do you have the full version? It was only the additional mics that wouldn't download.


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## khollister (Mar 19, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> You should put me on the QA team - I'm very good at finding faults!
> 
> Speaking of which...  for some reason the mouse scroll wheel (magic mouse) doesn't work in lists on the right side of the VA app (although the left side works fine) - you have to grab the scroll bar. For example, in the Component Selection bit or the right side of the Bulk Install list.
> 
> View attachment mouse wheel.mp4


I already reported this to @Paul Kopf via Support


----------



## khollister (Mar 19, 2022)

khollister said:


> I already reported this to @Paul Kopf via Support


There is also some scrolling screwiness in the process view I reported


----------



## holywilly (Mar 19, 2022)

Ben said:


> Probably yes. You can also check if you see the green deposit button inMyVSL - if it's not available / deactivated you are still in Queue.


Alright! What happen if I purchase the upcoming Synchron products while I’m still using all others with elicense? Am I forced to migrate by that time?


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## Ben (Mar 19, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Alright! What happen if I purchase the upcoming Synchron products while I’m still using all others with elicense? Am I forced to migrate by that time?


If you want to use the new product, yes. But if it's a Synchron Player library for example, you would only have to migrate the Synchron Player, the other players will continue to run fine with eLicenser.


----------



## Braveheart (Mar 19, 2022)

I’m considering getting VE Pro 7.

Anyone has it? From my understanding, it’s possible to work on the same project on many DAW’s at the same time? I only have one computer, so does it still worth it for that configuration?


----------



## holywilly (Mar 19, 2022)

Ben said:


> If you want to use the new product, yes. But if it's a Synchron Player library for example, you would only have to migrate the Synchron Player, the other players will continue to run fine with eLicenser.


Cool, thanks for making everything clear. I guess it’s time to order a new ssd.


----------



## Virtuoso (Mar 19, 2022)

holywilly said:


> I guess it’s time to order a new ssd.


Samsung 980 Pros are on offer at the moment ($279 for 2TB) - I bought two yesterday and they're already full.


----------



## jon wayne (Mar 19, 2022)

I can’t seem to satisfy the Vienna Assistant as to what the correct installation path is. This is my slave machine and the only VSL product installed is the Vienna Assistant.


----------



## holywilly (Mar 19, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> Samsung 980 Pros are on offer at the moment ($279 for 2TB) - I bought two yesterday and they're already full.


I have a 4TB ssd dedicated to Synchron libraries, maybe I will get a smaller ssd to house BBO. Is VSL planning to release more BBO stuffs? Hmmm…..what capacity should I get?


----------



## khollister (Mar 19, 2022)

holywilly said:


> I have a 4TB ssd dedicated to Synchron libraries, maybe I will get a smaller ssd to house BBO. Is VSL planning to release more BBO stuffs? Hmmm…..what capacity should I get?


How much money do you have?


----------



## holywilly (Mar 19, 2022)

Don’t have much money, but enough to get couple upcoming VSL libraries. 

And the new Mac Studio is also tempting.


----------



## wcreed51 (Mar 19, 2022)

I thought it would be a huge drag to have download everything again, but on the contrary, I find that I'm re-experiencing the thrill of downloading them the first time!


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## mixedmoods (Mar 20, 2022)

I have an issue with the transition to the new iLok versions:
I migrated all my Licenses, installed the Vienna Assistant, updated all Synchron Players and was able to re-download a few Libraries already.
My problem is that the Synchron Player cant find them. The Volume Scan Path is set correctly and the files are installed. Still nothing appears in the Player or for example the Harp Player says it cant find any library. What am I doing wrong?


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## Hadrondrift (Mar 20, 2022)

Did you activate your libraries within the iLok License Manager?


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## Piotrek K. (Mar 20, 2022)

Aitcpiano said:


> Wondering how licenses can be sold using the new Ilok system? Does it work in the same way as before but without having to now send of an elicenser with the licenses on?


+1 to that. With Ilok it should be much easier process.


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## mixedmoods (Mar 20, 2022)

Hadrondrift said:


> Did you activate your libraries within the iLok License Manager?


Thank you! That was indeed the only thing I havent though of ...


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## Braveheart (Mar 20, 2022)

Hadrondrift said:


> Did you activate your libraries within the iLok License Manager?


And did you kept your computer open while doing it?


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## devonmyles (Mar 20, 2022)

I was in the queue for the iLok conversion and waiting for the email to say all systems go.
Today, I purchased something for my BBO collection and suddenly everything is converted to iLok and available for download.
The downloads are going pretty smoothly (and fast) at present. So, top marks VSL for the (my) smooth transition.


----------



## khollister (Mar 20, 2022)

I downloaded and installed almost 3TB of content the past couple of day with just a minor hiccup or two. This morning I decided to go ahead and install all the iLok MIR Roompacks. I felt like I was channeling @Virtuoso - VA crashed twice and several times the downloads or installs were stopped with "Cancelled" being the message in VA even though I hadn't touched or cancelled anything.

All good now but something went haywire all of a sudden for me today.

Also noticed that while the libraries downloaded a single archive which was exploded into the discrete folders on install, the room packs seemed to download the final state folder structure and install just moved them to the correct folder. I also thought something was missing initially because some of the files were renamed in the iLok versions.


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## Marcus Millfield (Mar 20, 2022)

I have to say that the transition went on without a hitch! Synchron, Synchron-ized and VI libraries and MIR downloaded and installed without any issues. My template was up and running again after downloading.

One thing to note: there is a period of 90 days from the moment you transitioned your licenses to iLok before you can transfer a license to another user:






See: https://www.ilok.com/#!support/help/102029546/102029564/102029632

That has something to do with increased license theft activity apparently.


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## Ben (Mar 20, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> I have to say that the transition went on without a hitch! Synchron, Synchron-ized and VI libraries and MIR downloaded and installed without any issues. My template was up and running again after downloading.
> 
> One thing to note: there is a period of 90 days from the moment you transitioned your licenses to iLok before you can transfer a license to another user:
> 
> ...


For eLicenser converted licenses you also have to transfer the eLicenser license to the buyer, if I'm not mistaken. Please contact [email protected] for more information about this procedure.


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## Marcus Millfield (Mar 20, 2022)

Ben said:


> For eLicenser converted licenses you also have to transfer the eLicenser license to the buyer, if I'm not mistaken. Please contact [email protected] for more information about this procedure.


Ehm... ok. I will, thank you for the info.

@Ben , that does sound a bit weird, as we just transitioned to iLok. Why would the eLicense system still be a factor?


----------



## khollister (Mar 20, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Ehm... ok. I will, thank you for the info.
> 
> @Ben , that does sound a bit weird, as we just transitioned to iLok. Why would the eLicense system still be a factor?


Because I suspect you could transfer the iLok license but keep the eLicenser one to use yourself with eLicenser version of the players and libs.


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## Marcus Millfield (Mar 20, 2022)

khollister said:


> Because I suspect you could transfer the iLok license but keep the eLicenser one to use yourself with eLicenser version of the players and libs.


Gotcha! Thanks!


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## jonathanwright (Mar 21, 2022)

I've noticed whenever I add one of the new VSL iLok instruments to a project, a 'VSL Helper' app opens up in the dock (Mac Monterey).

However the VSL Helper app doesn't open when I open a project that already contains an existing VSL instrument.

Is this happening to anyone else?


----------



## khollister (Mar 21, 2022)

jonathanwright said:


> I've noticed whenever I add one of the new VSL iLok instruments to a project, a 'VSL Helper' app opens up in the dock (Mac Monterey).
> 
> However the VSL Helper app doesn't open when I open a project that already contains an existing VSL instrument.
> 
> Is this happening to anyone else?


I get that in Logic whether in native or Rosetta mode. Closing the helper app doesn't seem to affect the operation of the VSL instrument, however.

Interestingly, if I start Cubase 12 in Rosetta mode, the help app doesn't start.

Going to try S1 next

UPDATE: No helper app in S1 either (running S1 native, running x64 VSL player AU using Apple's Rosetta AU feature).


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## khollister (Mar 21, 2022)

@Ben or @Paul Kopf , can you guys explain what this VSL Helper app is in Logic?


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## azeteg (Mar 21, 2022)

khollister said:


> @Ben or @Paul Kopf , can you guys explain what this VSL Helper app is in Logic?


The VSLHelper is responsible for translating project and/or preset data from eLicenser format to iLok format. It uses either a locally connected eLicenser dongle for this, or sends data along to a cloud service which will handle the conversion, in case there is no eLicenser dongle with the appropriate license attached.

It will only launch in case a conversion is required - when opening a freshly saved project, VSLHelper is not required.


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## samphony (Mar 21, 2022)

khollister said:


> I get that in Logic whether in native or Rosetta mode. Closing the helper app doesn't seem to affect the operation of the VSL instrument, however.
> 
> Interestingly, if I start Cubase 12 in Rosetta mode, the help app doesn't start.
> 
> ...


How reliable is this workflow? I mean the AU intel bridge in S1.


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## khollister (Mar 21, 2022)

samphony said:


> How reliable is this workflow? I mean the AU intel bridge in S1.


Don't know - I don't use S1 for a number of reasons, but I do have a license I got cheap. I just use it to check things from time to time.

I use Logic & Cubase - moving more to Cubase with the release of 12. Rock solid so far on the AS Macs in my experience. C12 in Rosetta (VSL, ENGINE and UAD) is way more efficient and usable than C11. C12 flies in native mode.


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## khollister (Mar 21, 2022)

azeteg said:


> The VSLHelper is responsible for translating project and/or preset data from eLicenser format to iLok format. It uses either a locally connected eLicenser dongle for this, or sends data along to a cloud service which will handle the conversion, in case there is no eLicenser dongle with the appropriate license attached.
> 
> It will only launch in case a conversion is required - when opening a freshly saved project, VSLHelper is not required.


It opened on a brand new project in Logic?


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## azeteg (Mar 21, 2022)

khollister said:


> It opened on a brand new project in Logic?


This could happen, if you for instance have a startup preset set inside one of the players. In that case, I would recommend you to re-save the startup preset using the iLok plug-in. Otherwise it would have to use the eLicenser, locally cached data or cloud service, every time you are converting that preset.


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## khollister (Mar 21, 2022)

azeteg said:


> This could happen, if you for instance have a startup preset set inside one of the players. In that case, I would recommend you to re-save the startup preset using the iLok plug-in. Otherwise it would have to use the eLicenser, locally cached data or cloud service, every time you are converting that preset.


Apparently there was a #default.aupreset (which was actually nothing loaded) which was triggering this in Logic. There were no corresponding presets for the VST version or other Synchron players. Deleted that stealth preset and no more helper on new projects.


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## fduncan (Mar 21, 2022)

Hello, my SSD is almost full (Steinberg version). I own a lot of vsl libraries, is the size of the Ilok versions bigger than the Steinberg versions ?

I searched this information but could not find it. Thank you very much.


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## RSK (Mar 21, 2022)

azeteg said:


> The VSLHelper is responsible for translating project and/or preset data from eLicenser format to iLok format. It uses either a locally connected eLicenser dongle for this, or sends data along to a cloud service which will handle the conversion, in case there is no eLicenser dongle with the appropriate license attached.
> 
> It will only launch in case a conversion is required - when opening a freshly saved project, VSLHelper is not required.


That's odd; mine just stays on all the time.


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## Ben (Mar 21, 2022)

fduncan said:


> Hello, my SSD is almost full (Steinberg version). I own a lot of vsl libraries, is the size of the Ilok versions bigger than the Steinberg versions ?
> 
> I searched this information but could not find it. Thank you very much.


The libraries should have similar sizes. Please be aware that expansions and updates are included now.


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## RSK (Mar 21, 2022)

fduncan said:


> Hello, my SSD is almost full (Steinberg version). I own a lot of vsl libraries, is the size of the Ilok versions bigger than the Steinberg versions ?
> 
> I searched this information but could not find it. Thank you very much.


Did you delete the old libraries once the new ones were installed?


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## heisenberg (Mar 21, 2022)

Ben said:


> The libraries should have similar sizes. Please be aware that expansions and updates are included now.


Good to hear the updates are included in the originating libraries.


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## fduncan (Mar 21, 2022)

Ben said:


> The libraries should have similar sizes. Please be aware that expansions and updates are included now.


Great news, thank you Ben !


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## fduncan (Mar 21, 2022)

RSK said:


> Did you delete the old libraries once the new ones were installed?


I have not received the email yet but I’ll have to delete the old libraries first because of SSD storage issue, or buy another SSD.


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## Fizzlewig (Mar 22, 2022)

My SSD is full, so is it ok to delete the VSL libraries before downloading the new ILOK versions? Thank you.


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## Ben (Mar 22, 2022)

Fizzlewig said:


> My SSD is full, so is it ok to delete the VSL libraries before downloading the new ILOK versions? Thank you.


Yes!


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## Fizzlewig (Mar 22, 2022)

Ben said:


> Yes!


Thank you, waiting for ILOK confirmation atm. I wish I had faster internet, it's going to take ages!!


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## ptram (Mar 22, 2022)

azeteg said:


> This could happen, if you for instance have a startup preset set inside one of the players. In that case, I would recommend you to re-save the startup preset using the iLok plug-in.


Is it a good idea to reopen and re-save all the user presets from the new players?

Paolo


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## Sean Robin (Mar 22, 2022)

@Ben couple questions on Vienna Imperial (VI)...
Do you have an estimate on how long before that is available for iLok?
Also, is it planned to update Vienna Imperial for M1 native on MacOS... when you do begin the M1 native transition?
Many thanks & great job on the iLok transition! Cheers


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## Ben (Mar 22, 2022)

xsubs said:


> @Ben couple questions on Vienna Imperial (VI)...
> Do you have an estimate on how long before that is available for iLok?
> Also, is it planned to update Vienna Imperial for M1 native on MacOS... when you do begin the M1 native transition?
> Many thanks & great job on the iLok transition! Cheers


Sorry, I don't have estimates regarding Vienna Imperial.


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## ptram (Mar 22, 2022)

Ben said:


> Sorry, I don't have estimates regarding Vienna Imperial.


Oh, maybe this is taking more time because you are going to deliver the separate mic streams!

Paolo


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## jcrosby (Mar 22, 2022)

Ben said:


> Yes!


Hey @Ben Ive deposited my ilok Licenses and downloaded the assistant, Vienna Suite (standard) doesn’t show up. I logged into my account to see if I needed it to download a new installer from there but the installers from 2019.

Has the regular Vienna Suite not been transitioned yet? (Looks like it has according to my account…) if it has, any idea whats going on?


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## Marcus Millfield (Mar 22, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> Hey @Ben Ive deposited my ilok Licenses and downloaded the assistant, Vienna Suite (standard) doesn’t show up. I logged into my account to see if I needed it to download a new installer from there but the installers from 2019.
> 
> Has the regular Vienna Suite not been transitioned yet? (Looks like it has according to my account…) if it has, any idea whats going on?


From their website:

The following products will be iLok compatible a bit later:

Vienna Suite (Vienna Suite Pro is already available with iLok authorization)


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## timbit2006 (May 5, 2022)

Does anyone understand the logic behind not allowing machine activations and forcing some of us to spend well over 200 dollars on ilok keys?


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## LinusW (May 5, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> Does anyone understand the logic behind not allowing machine activations and forcing some of us to spend well over 200 dollars on ilok keys?


Drives break way easier than iLok dongles, so they don’t have to deal with lost licenses due to computer drive corruptions.


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## timbit2006 (May 5, 2022)

LinusW said:


> Drives break way easier than iLok dongles, so they don’t have to deal with lost licenses due to computer drive corruptions.


solved easily by cloning the drive. You definitely can't clone an ilok


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## pinki (May 5, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> Does anyone understand the logic behind not allowing machine activations and forcing some of us to spend well over 200 dollars on ilok keys?


No.


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## CeDur (May 5, 2022)

Sorry for being a bit lazy, but if I buy any VSL product - can I still activate them on old Vienna Key?


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## emilio_n (May 5, 2022)

CeDur said:


> Sorry for being a bit lazy, but if I buy any VSL product - can I still activate them on old Vienna Key?


I think no


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## CeDur (May 5, 2022)

So the key I bought last year is basically useless now? I'm asking because being 100% online is not an option for me. It seems I need physical iLok dongle now :D


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## emilio_n (May 5, 2022)

CeDur said:


> So the key I bought last year is basically useless now? I'm asking because being 100% online is not an option for me. It seems I need physical iLok dongle now :D


Yes... I bought also the Vienna Key last year. At least when I bought come with a voucher so is not a big waste. Now that both Steinberg and VSL don't use the e-licencer key as soon you get a new VSL product the key is useless.

You can't have VSL products under the same player in both old key and iLok


----------



## emilio_n (May 5, 2022)

On another hand, I can tell you that I am using physical iLok and the transition is super smooth. The new Assistant software works very well.


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## timbit2006 (May 5, 2022)

Does anyone have any recollection of a post where a VSL employee justifies the logic behind them not allowing us to do machine activations on a piece of audio networking software that is cheaper to replace outright at full price than the price of an Ilok + a year of Zero Downtime?


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## Ben (May 5, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> solved easily by cloning the drive. You definitely can't clone an ilok


And this will also not work for machine activation, since the license is bound to the specific drive. 


timbit2006 said:


> Does anyone have any recollection of a post where a VSL employee justifies the logic behind them not allowing us to do machine activations on a piece of software that is cheaper to replace outright at full price than the price of an Ilok + a year of Zero Downtime?


Yes, machine activation does not offer the same level of protection as the iLok Cloud or a physical iLok does.


----------



## timbit2006 (May 5, 2022)

Ben said:


> And this will also not work for machine activation, since the license is bound to the specific drive.
> 
> Yes, machine activation does not offer the same level of protection as the iLok Cloud or a physical iLok does.


Hmm that's interesting I've cloned my drive before and did not recall losing activations. It doesn't tie to hardware like Windows OS?

What is the protection from though? This is extremely inconvenient for many of us. At the very least I really hope you change your wording on your website to reflect this obvious problem so others don't get misled like I have here. The page and associated ilok promotions clearly leads customers to believe they will not need a key and then they find out they'll now need to buy many expensive keys that may not even come in the mail for approximately 1-2 weeks like in my situation. There's no large chain music store in my city, I might get lucky and find one at a local store but the chances of them having 3 are slim.
I will make a request to support to just convert my Synchron Brass library to ilok so I can use the vienna key on vepro as a temporary solution. Is it possible to use both versions of VEpro together? One is just on my main machine to host plugins then the other which will have Kontakt and Synchron brass is on the server pc.


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## Ben (May 5, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> What is the protection from though? This is extremely inconvenient for many of us.


Piracy.


timbit2006 said:


> I will make a request to support to just convert my Synchron Brass library to ilok so I can use the vienna key on vepro as a temporary solution.


No need to do so. Your eLicenser licenses will keep working just fine. You can also use VEP on eLicenser and the Synchron Player on iLok on the same machine. But you can't run eLicenser and iLok libraries of the same Sample Player at the same time on one machine.



timbit2006 said:


> Is it possible to use both versions of VEpro together?


No, VEP will only work in network if you are using the same version of it.


----------



## chrisr (May 5, 2022)

Hi @Ben ,

Any news on a fix for the "Invalid Project" bug with large VEP templates, after moving from elicenser to iLok?

As you know many of us rolled back to elicenser after experiencing the bug.

very best,
Chris


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## rocking.xmas.man (May 5, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> forcing some of us to spend well over 200 dollars on ilok keys?


Why do you need 4 ilok keys?

Machine activation is a nightmare especially on windows. I‘ve seen so many guys asking what’s wrong just because their drive got registered with a new Id after a windows update and they virtually lost those activations. The dongle is good and reliable, ilok cloud is an option but not as convincing


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## BasariStudios (May 5, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> Does anyone understand the logic behind not allowing machine activations and forcing some of us to spend well over 200 dollars on ilok keys?


Libraries get easily Pirated, that's why.


----------



## Ben (May 5, 2022)

chrisr said:


> Hi @Ben ,
> 
> Any news on a fix for the "Invalid Project" bug with large VEP templates, after moving from elicenser to iLok?
> 
> ...


I think most of these issues should be already solved by now. If you still get this message, please send us your VEP template / DAW project so we can take a look at it: [email protected]


----------



## Ronny D. Ana (May 5, 2022)

BasariStudios said:


> Libraries get easily Pirated, that's why.


They get pirated anyway...


----------



## Aitcpiano (May 5, 2022)

Ronny D. Ana said:


> They get pirated anyway...


Unlikely/probably not if using Ilok.


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## Stevie (May 5, 2022)

@Ben I have just noticed one thing in REAPER (not sure if it's applicable to other DAWs):

I loaded an old project with 3 instances of Vienna Instruments Pro x64.dll (VST2). Everything went flawlessly, but when saving the project, it took unnaturally long.
Then I did the following: REAPER can replace a VST2 instance with a VST3 instance of the same plugin, if the VST2 plugin is missing. So, I quickly renamed the VST2 plugin and loaded the project again.
And, tada, now the saving of the project was as quick as it used to be.

Is this behavior expected, e.g. VST3 being faster than VST2?


Important edit: the VST3 instances weren't replaced correctly, so it behaves as if no VSL plugin was loaded. That's why the saving was so quick.

Want me to send the project to support?


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## chrisr (May 5, 2022)

Ben said:


> I think most of these issues should be already solved by now. If you still get this message, please send us your VEP template / DAW project so we can take a look at it: [email protected]


Oki doke, I'll try again in the coming days and see how it goes, thanks


----------



## UDun (May 5, 2022)

Ben said:


> I think most of these issues should be already solved by now. If you still get this message, please send us your VEP template / DAW project so we can take a look at it: [email protected]


Ben, I raised my ticket 1 month ago with all possible files and details. I am still not able to load my template. I am completely ignored by the support and didn't get even ONE single reply. You also got by PM the incident number some time ago.

Could you please tell me what's happening ? I am really upset by this behaviour. Being forced to move from one key to another is absolutely useless to me and I don't even feel supported by the company. Great if you get new customers but please take care about your existing ones.


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## iMovieShout (May 5, 2022)

UDun said:


> Ben, I raised my ticket 1 month ago with all possible files and details. I am still not able to load my template. I am completely ignored by the support and didn't get even ONE single reply. You also got by PM the incident number some time ago.
> 
> Could you please tell me what's happening ? I am really upset by this behaviour. Being forced to move from one key to another is absolutely useless to me and I don't even feel supported by the company. Great if you get new customers but please take care about your existing ones.


Going back to eLicenser and also going back to the last working eLicenser version of VEPro7 (v1120) has solved all of these issues for us.


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## Bollen (May 5, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> Is it possible to use both versions of VEpro together?





Ben said:


> No, VEP will only work in network if you are using the same version of it.


Are you sure about this @Ben ? Because I mistakenly bought the acoustic guitar without realising I would get the ilok version. So instead of updating my 2TB of libraries I just installed it on my laptop and networked it from there i.e. using VE Pro 7 eLicenser on my desktop and the ilok version on the laptop. And also consider, I technically only have one licence for VE Pro.

I should also mention that the kind folks at VSL sent me an eLicenser version of the guitar the very next day!


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## UDun (May 5, 2022)

jpb007.uk said:


> Going back to eLicenser and also going back to the last working eLicenser version of VEPro7 (v1120) has solved all of these issues for us.


Yes, I am just afraid that elicenser is no longer supported. So at some point we will have to switch to ilok to get updates or new products. So we are forced to migrate now or later. My option is actually not to use VEPro anymore. But there is so much I need to rework on now. The worst is to not even getting heard by the support. That's not acceptable and I changed my view on VSL.


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## timbit2006 (May 5, 2022)

BasariStudios said:


> Libraries get easily Pirated, that's why.


Perhaps by people fed up with anti-consumer ilok related policies...


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## pinki (May 5, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> Perhaps by people fed up with anti-consumer ilok related policies...


That there is fightin talk...

I do feel some of the rosy glow VSL have been basking in these last few years has slightly diminished over this iLok fiasco...and by fiasco I am referring to the _nonsense _about machine-based authorisation being a no-go because it's a security risk to the company. I think the truth is it was more expensive or they couldn't be arsed.

But the upshot is, we've all exchanged a blue key for a silver key and missed out on the opportunity to have no key despite them trying to pretend that cloud based phoning home is the future.

However I can forgive it all because VSL are still a company that have a returns policy _and_ allow resale.


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## timbit2006 (May 5, 2022)

pinki said:


> That there is fightin talk...


I think this is how a lot of us feel after the whole Ilok thing in reguards to VSL now haha, especially right around 47 seconds.


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## iMovieShout (May 5, 2022)

UDun said:


> Yes, I am just afraid that elicenser is no longer supported. So at some point we will have to switch to ilok to get updates or new products. So we are forced to migrate now or later. My option is actually not to use VEPro anymore. But there is so much I need to rework on now. The worst is to not even getting heard by the support. That's not acceptable and I changed my view on VSL.


Unfortunately the 4 of us in the studio are of the same opinion. Its so sad that what was once a company of high regard and reputation, is now putting its customers and customer loyalty last, and no doubt shareholders and commercial partners first, and has been witnessed by its needless jump to iLok. 
We too have lost faith in VSL. We shall carry on down the eLicenser route for as long as we can. We've proven iLok doesn't work - most of the VSL libraries that we've purchased and used for months or years, simply won't install, won't startup, or just don't appear in Synchron Player despite trying everything many times over. Whereas eLicenser works first time, every time, for all of us here.

Interestingly, since upgrading my dual-Xeon studio PC recently (faster memory, and very fast NVMe drives), I can run much more than before (ie. more VST's and effects with less dependance upon VEPro7 running localy). I'm hearing similar stories with the newer Apple M1 range.


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## Ben (May 5, 2022)

Stevie said:


> @Ben I have just noticed one thing in REAPER (not sure if it's applicable to other DAWs):
> 
> I loaded an old project with 3 instances of Vienna Instruments Pro x64.dll (VST2). Everything went flawlessly, but when saving the project, it took unnaturally long.
> Then I did the following: REAPER can replace a VST2 instance with a VST3 instance of the same plugin, if the VST2 plugin is missing. So, I quickly renamed the VST2 plugin and loaded the project again.
> ...


Thanks for your feedback. VST2 and VST3 should behave pretty much the same. It might also have to do with how Reaper is handling these plugin formats.
At this point I'm not sure if we can do anything about this.


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## Ben (May 5, 2022)

UDun said:


> Ben, I raised my ticket 1 month ago with all possible files and details. I am still not able to load my template. I am completely ignored by the support and didn't get even ONE single reply. You also got by PM the incident number some time ago.
> 
> Could you please tell me what's happening ? I am really upset by this behaviour. Being forced to move from one key to another is absolutely useless to me and I don't even feel supported by the company. Great if you get new customers but please take care about your existing ones.


Sorry, nothing new to report. It's still on the queue to be processed by our developers.
And no, you are not forced to move right now; there is nothing wrong with staying with eLicenser for a while, especially when using VEP in a complex scenario that seems to work not so smooth as it used to be.


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## Ben (May 5, 2022)

Bollen said:


> Are you sure about this @Ben ? Because I mistakenly bought the acoustic guitar without realising I would get the ilok version. So instead of updating my 2TB of libraries I just installed it on my laptop and networked it from there i.e. using VE Pro 7 eLicenser on my desktop and the ilok version on the laptop. And also consider, I technically only have one licence for VE Pro.
> 
> I should also mention that the kind folks at VSL sent me an eLicenser version of the guitar the very next day!


Yes, you can run the iLok variant on a separat system, no problems with that. But you can't connect a eLicenser based VEP to an iLok based one and vice versa.
Also, you can us iLok players inside eLicenser VEP and vice versa as well.


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## Ben (May 5, 2022)

pinki said:


> I do feel some of the rosy glow VSL have been basking in these last few years has slightly diminished over this iLok fiasco...and by fiasco I am referring to the _nonsense _about machine-based authorisation being a no-go because it's a security risk to the company. I think the truth is it was more expensive or they couldn't be arsed.


It's not nonsene, but the sad truth.
It takes literaly less then a day to create a pirated version of machine based protection, not only for iLok.
If this would have been a cost thing, we would not have offered our free instruments with machine based authentication. But guess what, we do not care so much if there are pirated versions out there of our free libraries :D


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## pinki (May 5, 2022)

Ben…East West and a whole bunch of other companies dont seem to have this fear.


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## Ben (May 5, 2022)

jpb007.uk said:


> Unfortunately the 4 of us in the studio are of the same opinion. Its so sad that what was once a company of high regard and reputation, is now putting its customers and customer loyalty last, and no doubt shareholders and commercial partners first, and has been witnessed by its needless jump to iLok.


1. Nothing has changed in the fact that we value our customers and care about what users think. In fact, we've just added more staff to the support team.
2. VSL is a 100% privatly owned company. There are no shareholders to satisfy.
Also, I don't know what you mean by "commercial partners"
3. The move to iLok was more then necassary and something we discussed for years. eLicenser has limits that started to show up (for example the license cap of the eLicenser dongle that some customers have already reached)

I feel like you have the wrong idea about the industry. We are not a large enterprise company; you can take a look at our team here.


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## Ben (May 5, 2022)

pinki said:


> Ben…East West and a whole bunch of other companies dont seem to have this fear.


That's their decision to make. But for our products we have to decide if it's worth the risk, and we decided against it.
And seeing how it took me less than a minute to find pirated versions of hinted products just now, I think we made the right decision.


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## pinki (May 6, 2022)

Well I guess I have to respect VSL's decision but I don't agree with it.


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## timbit2006 (May 6, 2022)

It's just a real damn shame that VSL doesn't have some sort of voucher system that they could use to generate some vouchers to maybe help sweeten the sour taste in many of our mouths. 🤷‍♂️ 

...I don't even know if I'm joking here or not...


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## Piotrek K. (May 6, 2022)

The discussion here is really ridiculous. VSL needed to go for different authorization scheme as e-licenser will die sooner or later as it lost Steinberg support. They went for ilok. An industry standard. How they dare! Also they decided to choose licensing variants that are best for their business. Damn, what a capitalistic bastards! <- joke, don't ban me!

On more serious note, they own a scoring stage, I can only assume that they took huge loan for that and they need to be sure, that their investment is safe and business will have proper cash flow (to pay staff, musicians, place itself).

I also understand that transition may cause some issues that are problematic for working composers. But it needed to happen and it's collateral damage, sad thing, but hard to avoid. At least VSL support is always super helpful.

So guys, please look at all sides, not just "me poor customer can't store VSL license on PC" or "me no like silver dongle". It's much more complex.


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## novaburst (May 6, 2022)

I actually purchased an extra ilok just for this move, 

A little thought did come to me i wondered would it have been a chance for VSL to own elicenser out right, What has happened to elicense was it up for sale it does appear Steinberg has no further use for it

Is it just going to go to waste because at the end of the day it is kind of like the ilok dongle but the ilok does look better


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## EgM (May 6, 2022)

novaburst said:


> I actually purchased an extra ilok just for this move,
> 
> A little thought did come to me i wondered would it have been a chance for VSL to own elicenser out right, What has happened to elicense was it up for sale it does appear Steinberg has no further use for it
> 
> Is it just going to go to waste because at the end of the day it is kind of like the ilok dongle but the ilok does look better



Seeing how anytime Cubase released an upgrade or new version and the eLicenser server crashed for multiple days, it was probably hosted on an old 486 DX2-66 using Novell Netware, lol. If the technology would've been worth something, I'm pretty sure Steinberg would have offered it for sale.


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## Ronny D. Ana (May 6, 2022)

It's always the same: HDMI, Harddisk Recorders that won't you allow to skip commercials, copyprotection (applications, floppy discs, CDs, DVDs, USB Sticks,...), Region Codes, locked mobiles and all this stuff: More or less it's a pain for the good customer but does not really protect from what it is aimed for: the bad guys. A friend of mine has been to the warez community for academic studies purposes and let me blink into this. And believe me: You can get it all without any problems *no matter which protection is used (that's only a matter of time*, as Ben already has forshadowed). Of course you have to know where to get it and have to have the proper contacts, thats the barriere.

But I also respect VSL's decision and love their products anyway!


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## timbit2006 (May 6, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> Did anyone else wrongly assume one of the major benefits of the VSL switch to Ilok Cloud would be so that we no longer have to worry about dongles and the associated possibility of theft? I really had no idea that I'd need to buy 3 Iloks just to use VEPro when it clearly advertises that you no longer need a dongle...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess maybe I never mentioned it here in this thread but this is specifically why I am not entirely happy about the situation. The quoted post is from another ilok/vsl thread.
I bought 3 keys for VEPro under the absolute assumption that I'd be able to use them with ilok cloud as it's clear as day advertised here. At the time of my purchase and I'm assuming it's still the same way there is no indication whatsoever that buying multiple copies of VEPro will not allow activations to the iLok cloud on the subsequent copies.
I was hoping to entirely not have hardware dongles, in the worst case scenario if my internet goes down I can just hotspot to my phones data plan, in the rare event that it happens it'll likely be less for the data overage charges(I live in Canada) than the price of a single dongle+the 30/year protection plan.


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## novaburst (May 6, 2022)

EgM said:


> Seeing how anytime Cubase released an upgrade or new version and the eLicenser server crashed for multiple days, it was probably hosted on an old 486 DX2-66 using Novell Netware, lol. If the technology would've been worth something, I'm pretty sure Steinberg would have offered it for sale.


Was that because the coding was old or the hardware falling apart, because all these things can be updated 

I think ilok is as old as elicense, but one thing i have noticed with ilok is they do make old dongles unusable

with elicense you can purchase a newer dongle but the license will also work on your an existing old dongle.

So i am just waiting for ilok to say you cant use generation 2 because they want every one to use generation 3


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## Stevie (May 6, 2022)

Ben said:


> Thanks for your feedback. VST2 and VST3 should behave pretty much the same. It might also have to do with how Reaper is handling these plugin formats.
> At this point I'm not sure if we can do anything about this.


Hey Ben,

I deleted the track / with the plugin in question and instead reloaded a track template.
This solved the saving issue. Not sure what is going on there. But in case you want to take a look at it, I can provide you with an .rpp file.


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## Ben (May 6, 2022)

Stevie said:


> Hey Ben,
> 
> I deleted the track / with the plugin in question and instead reloaded a track template.
> This solved the saving issue. Not sure what is going on there. But in case you want to take a look at it, I can provide you with an .rpp file.


Please send it to [email protected]
I'm not familiar with Reaper, but one of my colleagues should be able to take a look at it. Thanks!


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## Stevie (May 6, 2022)

Ben said:


> Please send it to [email protected]
> I'm not familiar with Reaper, but one of my colleagues should be able to take a look at it. Thanks!


Thanks Ben, will do! Much appreciated.


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