# I've Bought My SECOND TO LAST String Library



## robgb (May 13, 2019)

Spitfire's Studio Strings. I have been critical of Spitfire in the past, about their prices and about their reliance on the hype of Air Lyndhurst and about my disappointment with Albion One. Well, they have really knocked it out of the park with Studio Strings, and since I got it for $100 off, I have to say it's the best value string library I own. It's still a fantastic value at its regular price.

It's very close to dry—which I prefer—and the recordings and scripting are phenomenal. Also, the list of articulations is longer than most string libraries at this price point, and probably at much higher price points.

I honestly can't see the need to buy another string library.

EDIT: Okay, I was young when I wrote this. Sometimes there are deals you simply can't pass up.


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## jneebz (May 13, 2019)

Yeah, right.


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## Brian Nowak (May 13, 2019)

I enjoy it thoroughly, though it does have some pretty significant tuning issues here and there. But it has a great sound and you are correct, a huge number of articulations.

EDIT - my bad, I read this as chamber strings.


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## Desire Inspires (May 13, 2019)

robgb said:


> I honestly can't see the need to buy another string library.



Give it 6 months, you will want something else.


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## Morning Coffee (May 13, 2019)

I'm tossing up between Light and Sound Samples Chamber Strings (for the extra microphones positions) or Spitfire Studio Strings Core (for the articulations).


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## Sean (May 13, 2019)

Just bought this lib as well, I'm so happy with it. It sounds really good out of the box (I'm adding a touch of ValVintage reverb), legato seems pretty good, and it's very playable. Definitely cannot go wrong for $150.


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## GingerMaestro (May 13, 2019)

Hi @Sean so you have Valhalla room as well ? Do you favor vintageverb over room for these strings, would be interested in which settings you are using ? I’m considering getting vintageverb, I just picked up spitfire studio strings as well. Thanks


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## Sean (May 13, 2019)

GingerMaestro said:


> Hi @Sean so you have Valhalla room as well ? Do you favor vintageverb over room for these strings, would be interested in which settings you are using ? I’m considering getting vintageverb, I just picked up spitfire studio strings as well. Thanks


No I don't have Room, but you can always demo vintage. I demo'd room a while ago and liked Vintage a bit better so ended up getting that. I honestly don't know much about the technical side of reverb, I usually just find a preset I like and tweak from there.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 13, 2019)

I love these strings as well, I can't get enough of the brushed Violas.....can finally write some decent sounding Baroque stuff. I am using EW Spaces for reverb, very nice.


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## robgb (May 13, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> Give it 6 months, you will want something else.


Nope.


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## KallumS (May 14, 2019)

I'm with you @robgb, Studio Strings is everything I want in a string library. Dry but not as dry as VSL, lots of articulations, all of the sections separated out so you can write lines for each instrument and a great sound.


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## Crowe (May 14, 2019)

What. That's a really good pricepoint damnit. I had my sights set on CSS and CSSS. How am I supposed to choose now?


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## DivingInSpace (May 14, 2019)

Hmmm.. Never really considered those, don't really know why. Like Shiirai i'd considered just getting CSS at some point if on sale (though not in a near future), but the price is a lot better for these, so i might just get them at the next wishlist sale!

And i am/my wallet is pretty happy that it is not in the near future haha.


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## cqd (May 14, 2019)

I'm pretty much done buying libraries bar CSWW whenever it comes out..


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## kessel (May 14, 2019)

I don't think this could be my only one string library to go, maybe the articulations are great but definitely not my sound.

On the other hand I can imagine just having one string library as I use mainly only one too, but that depends on the type(s) of music you write


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## Parsifal666 (May 14, 2019)

robgb said:


> Spitfire's Studio Strings. I have been critical of Spitfire in the past, about their prices and about their reliance on the hype of Air Lyndhurst and about my disappointment with Albion One. Well, they have really knocked it out of the park with Studio Strings, and since I got it for $100 off, I have to say it's the best value string library I own. It's still a fantastic value at its regular price.
> 
> It's very close to dry—which I prefer—and the recordings and scripting are phenomenal. Also, the list of articulations is longer than most string libraries at this price point, and probably at much higher price points.
> 
> I honestly can't see the need to buy another string library.



If only I could believe that... 

I feel kind of bummed...I didn't realize how good the Studio Strings were, being more interested in the other two libraries for a commission I'm working on. Now that I've seen the walkthroughs I'm kicking myself for missing it.

I have a ton of string libs and will probably buy more. Each one I have has something distinctive about it that works somewhere in my music (all except Session Strings Pro, which just doesn't seem to do anything but sit in Kontakt as if waiting to be deleted).


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## Desire Inspires (May 14, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> I have a ton of string libs and will probably buy more. Each one I have has something distinctive about it that works somewhere in my music (all except Session Strings Pro, which just doesn't seem to do anything but sit in Kontakt as if waiting to be deleted).



Hell no, send it to me!


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## SBK (May 14, 2019)

robgb said:


> I honestly can't see the need to buy another string library.



He said and after some time he remembered what he said when buying a new string library


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## Crowe (May 14, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> If only I could believe that...
> 
> I feel kind of bummed...I didn't realize how good the Studio Strings were, being more interested in the other two libraries for a commission I'm working on. Now that I've seen the walkthroughs I'm kicking myself for missing it.
> 
> I have a ton of string libs and will probably buy more. Each one I have has something distinctive about it that works somewhere in my music (all except Session Strings Pro, which just doesn't seem to do anything but sit in Kontakt as if waiting to be deleted).



You must not have Aria London Strings. I kinda like the sound, but it's virtually unplayable and I can't for the life of me fit it in with instruments other than themselves.

Then again, I also have Session Strings and those don't even work in a solo setting so I guess that's worse.


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## robgb (May 14, 2019)

kessel said:


> On the other hand I can imagine just having one string library as I use mainly only one too, but that depends on the type(s) of music you write


I have several string libraries. This is simply the last and instantly my go-to.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 14, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> What. That's a really good pricepoint damnit. I had my sights set on CSS and CSSS. How am I supposed to choose now?


Shiirai--
I've read a couple of posts about the limited variety of shorts in SStS, so you might want to factor that into your decision, and maybe do a bit of searching through past posts. My impression is that SStS is more about a variety of color and texture, CSS is more about phrasing and shaping performance. I don't yet own SStS but might pick it up at some point for extra colors.


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## Sean (May 14, 2019)

I love SStS but would not trade CSS for it, they complement each other nicely imo.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 14, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Shiirai--
> I've read a couple of posts about the limited variety of shorts in SStS, so you might want to factor that into your decision, and maybe do a bit of searching through past posts. My impression is that SStS is more about a variety of color and texture, CSS is more about phrasing and shaping performance. I don't yet own SStS but might pick it up at some point for extra colors.



IMO, it's much more than a library for colour and texture (unlike Studio Brass). It can easily be a main string library, as long as the composer likes the dry sound. The more I dive into it, the more I'm impressed. I was not expecting this great of a library for $149 (Wishlist price). And even though it's dry, good reverb settings open up a whole new dimension.


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## jaketanner (May 14, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> What. That's a really good pricepoint damnit. I had my sights set on CSS and CSSS. How am I supposed to choose now?



Totally different sounding libraries. With SF you hear the rosin on the bow...CSS is smooth and warm. Very different uses.


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## kessel (May 14, 2019)

robgb said:


> I have several string libraries. This is simply the last and instantly my go-to.



Yep, I guess you've found what you were looking for. I know that feeling for other kind of libraries, for strings I'm not entirely there yet, but I think I could get there soon too


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## Lionel Schmitt (May 14, 2019)

And then LASS 3 with (possibly) amazing close mic'ed greatness comes along and you'll get WEAAKKK!!! :D


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## kessel (May 14, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> And then LASS 3 with (possibly) amazing close mic'ed greatness comes along and you'll get WEAAKKK!!! :D



That's exactly the one I'm waiting for. I only own the first chairs (LASS 2.5) and I'm pretty happy with them. Now waiting for LASS 3 to come out and see how an upgrade to the full version may work.


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## jaketanner (May 14, 2019)

We all want to believe that the last library (of any instrument), is going to be the last...but we are all kidding ourselves here.. LOL. The main reason to buy libraries that are different, is for choices. Not every piece is going to sound good with only one sounding library...this also allows you to play to the strengths of the library, by choosing the correct one for the job. 

I will eventually pick up the Studio Strings also...has a nice bite and intimate sound, plus I like the divisi. I have Chamber and solo strings already, so will be a very nice complement.


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## Banquet (May 14, 2019)

I was mainly after Studio Brass and Woodwinds (as I have CS2) but got Strings as well as they were half price in the sale with collection discount. Really glad I did as I absolutely love them. They are very different from CS2 - detailed and intimate as opposed to CS2’s lovely glossy soundtrack type sound. Very pleased to have both as they compliment each other very nicely.


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## zimm83 (May 14, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> We all want to believe that the last library (of any instrument), is going to be the last...but we are all kidding ourselves here.. LOL. The main reason to buy libraries that are different, is for choices. Not every piece is going to sound good with only one sounding library...this also allows you to play to the strengths of the library, by choosing the correct one for the job.
> 
> I will eventually pick up the Studio Strings also...has a nice bite and intimate sound, plus I like the divisi. I have Chamber and solo strings already, so will be a very nice complement.


My last string library will be AFFLATUS with First chairs.........i hope...


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## BezO (May 14, 2019)

I din't "need" strings but I'm slightly regretting not getting the Studio Pro bundle. I like the smaller string sections.

I settled for just the brass & winds. Ehh well.


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## nas (May 14, 2019)

For me it was a toss up between SF Studio Strings or Chamber... at first I was a little concerned that if I just used the Close mic on SCS it would not be dry enough and I would still get too much of the hall. Ultimately I ended up going with SCS as it is so comprehensive and the hall really does sound incredible. Also it gets plenty dry for my tase when I need that - it is expensive though, even on sale.

I just picked up OA Chamber Evolutions and it goes beautifully with SCS and LCO, so for that size ensemble I think I'm covered... for now.


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## jaketanner (May 15, 2019)

zimm83 said:


> My last string library will be AFFLATUS with First chairs.........i hope...



I’d like to get my hands on that as well


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## ChristianM (May 15, 2019)

For my part, I wait to have LASS 3 and only after, I'll see if Spitfire or other can bring something more (I already have 8 other strings libraries including LASS 2.5 Full)


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## Parsifal666 (May 15, 2019)

ChristianM said:


> For my part, I expect to have LASS 3 and only after, I'll see if Spitfire or other can bring something more (I already have 8 other strings libraries including LASS 2.5 Full)



LASS has always interested me, as I've heard terrific mockups using that lib. I do have EWHD, Action, Session Pro, EVOs, Hein, SOO much for strings though lol!

I remain mostly interested in SStS Pro for now. Too bad I didn't save enough from my latest (tiny) commission to grab it during the WL sale. I can't recall whether Spitfire does another WL sale toward the end of the year? Anyone, please?


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## StillLife (May 15, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> LASS has always interested me, as I've heard terrific mockups using that lib. I do have EWHD, Action, Session Pro, EVOs, Hein, SOO much for strings though lol!
> 
> I remain mostly interested in SStS Pro for now. Too bad I didn't save enough from my latest (tiny) commission to grab it during the WL sale. I can't recall whether Spitfire does another WL sale toward the end of the year? Anyone, please?


Usually there is a Christmas Wishlist sale.


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## Parsifal666 (May 15, 2019)

StillLife said:


> Usually there is a Christmas Wishlist sale.



YAY!


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## robgb (May 15, 2019)

What I'm finding so wonderful about this library—besides the massive articulations and close, dryish sound—is the consistency between articulations. With some libraries I've found that when I switch articulations it's clear that another set of samples is being played. With SFSS, however, the switching is seamless. The consistency of tone, volume, etc., is pretty much perfect.


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## mikeh-375 (May 15, 2019)

I will buy again on the assumption that the things that are missing will eventually be sampled and released. There is nowhere near enough subtlety yet and variety of articulations, more dynamics and some techniques are frustratingly absent. There is a lot that can be done mind, but it's not over yet for me.


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## BezO (May 15, 2019)

StillLife said:


> Usually there is a Christmas Wishlist sale.


Sweet! I won't be happy it cost me $40-50 more for skipping the Studio Pro bundle, but I'll probably grab SStS during their next sale.


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## Polkasound (May 15, 2019)

I picked up Studio Strings Pro last week, and I'm kind of in the same situation as Rob... it could very well be my last string purchase. (But that shouldn't be too hard to believe when you look at the instrument pictured on my avatar -- string libraries are obviously not my bread and butter.) Between Spitfire Studio Strings Pro, CSS, Audio Modeling SWAM solo strings, and a few other string libraries, all of my string needs for the foreseeable future have now been met.

If only this realization were a cure for GAS.


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## DerGeist (May 15, 2019)

Polkasound said:


> I picked up Studio Strings Pro last week, and I'm kind of in the same situation as Rob... it could very well be my last string purchase. (But that shouldn't be too hard to believe when you look at the instrument pictured on my avatar -- string libraries are obviously not my bread and butter.) Between Spitfire Studio Strings Pro, CSS, Audio Modeling SWAM solo strings, and a few other string libraries, all of my string needs for the foreseeable future have now been met.
> 
> If only this realization were a cure for GAS.


Is there a good accordion library. Looking to pioneer Epic Klezmer.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 15, 2019)

DerGeist said:


> Is there a good accordion library. Looking to pioneer Epic Klezmer.


Polkasound! He makes awesome accordion sample libraries.


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## DerGeist (May 15, 2019)

Hah, didn’t realize the OP was a developer. Will check it out.


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## robgb (May 16, 2019)

Polkasound said:


> I picked up Studio Strings Pro last week, and I'm kind of in the same situation as Rob... it could very well be my last string purchase.


I'm just now discovering the Time Machine patches with their stretch controller. Wow.


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## novaburst (May 16, 2019)

I purchased my last string library but it lasted until another great string library made a great sale offer, 

Jokes aside....... It really depends what type of work you do or what type of music you compose, 

So different types of writing require different types of tone, so the idea of a last string library will never work for someone who composes a lot of cinimatic and epic work they need to have so many different types of tones at their finger tips. 

Also you may get a request to use a certain library that you have not purchased yet but soon will when you get the request. 

How you blend or layer needs a lot of choice if you work that way. 

Parts of string library's sound better than other so again choice. 

When you think about it there are not many top end string library's out there so for someone to have all of them is normal.


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## JohnG (May 16, 2019)

I bought my last wife. Although sometimes I wonder if I should worry when she refers to me as, "the incumbent..."


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## mikeh-375 (May 16, 2019)

yeah you still owe me money mr.G…….()


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## robgb (May 16, 2019)

novaburst said:


> So different types of writing require different types of tone, so the idea of a last string library will never work for someone who composes a lot of cinimatic and epic work they need to have so many different types of tones at their finger tips.


I think choice is good. But I also think that with a couple good, solid libraries you can do pretty much anything you want. Layering, mixing, EQ, filtering, etc., can do a lot toward getting exactly the sound you need when you need it.


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## EgM (May 16, 2019)

That's cute. You'll buy a new one before 2020


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## novaburst (May 16, 2019)

robgb said:


> I think choice is good. But I also think that with a couple good, solid libraries you can do pretty much anything you want. Layering, mixing, EQ, filtering, etc., can do a lot toward getting exactly the sound you need when you need it.



I guess it's mind set in the end, we all have our approach, we all paint pieces differently,


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## Dex (May 16, 2019)

robgb said:


> Spitfire's Studio Strings. I have been critical of Spitfire in the past, about their prices and about their reliance on the hype of Air Lyndhurst and about my disappointment with Albion One. Well, they have really knocked it out of the park with Studio Strings, and since I got it for $100 off, I have to say it's the best value string library I own. It's still a fantastic value at its regular price.
> 
> It's very close to dry—which I prefer—and the recordings and scripting are phenomenal. Also, the list of articulations is longer than most string libraries at this price point, and probably at much higher price points.
> 
> I honestly can't see the need to buy another string library.



Regular or Pro?


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## re-peat (May 17, 2019)

With the money I spent on strings libraries over the past 20 years, they could rebuild a sizeable part of the roof of the Notre Dame.

And yet, with all these terrabytes of samples, I still can’t do any of *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/StringsMontage.mp3 (this)*. There’s not a singe second in this 11 minute collage — and I could easily have made it an 11-week collage — that can be rendered convincingly with any of the libraries, or combinations thereof, ever released.


_


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## AlexanderSchiborr (May 17, 2019)

re-peat said:


> With the money I spent on strings libraries over the past 20 years, they could rebuild a sizeable part of the roof of the Notre Dame.
> 
> And yet, with all these terrabytes of samples, I still can’t do any of *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/StringsMontage.mp3 (this)*. There’s not a singe second in this 11 minute collage — and I could easily have made it an 11-week collage — that can be rendered convincingly with any of the libraries, or combinations thereof, ever released.
> 
> ...



What recording reference is that? Just curious to know..thanks.


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## re-peat (May 17, 2019)

A bit of everything, Alexander. Things I grabbed from my music collection. If you’re interested in one or more particular fragments, let me know and I’ll give you all the details (composer, piece, performer, record label, …).

_


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## Paul Grymaud (May 17, 2019)

*I've Bought My Last String Library*
*



*


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## robgb (May 17, 2019)

Dex said:


> Regular or Pro?


Regular. With Pro you get divisi instruments, more legato patches, and several more microphone positions, but I'm not sure it's worth the added cost.


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## robgb (May 17, 2019)

EgM said:


> That's cute. You'll buy a new one before 2020


Care to wager?


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## robgb (May 17, 2019)

re-peat said:


> And yet, with all these terrabytes of samples, I still can’t do any of *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/StringsMontage.mp3 (this)*. There’s not a singe second in this 11 minute collage — and I could easily have made it an 11-week collage — that can be rendered convincingly with any of the libraries, or combinations thereof, ever released._



You will never be able to render any sample instrument to rival the real thing. There are too many mechanical and human factors involved that can't be duplicated with sample instruments. The question I have is WHY would you want to reproduce this? As a learning exercise, maybe, or just for fun, but as a final produced piece of music? What's the point? Simply by their nature, sample libraries will always be limited.


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## mojamusic (May 17, 2019)

I, too have purchased my last string library. I have VSL, Embertone, LASS, CSS, CSSS, Orchestral Tools, and Albion (1 & 5). I don't need anymore string libraries.

Now what's this talk about LASS 3?


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## kessel (May 17, 2019)

mojamusic said:


> Now what's this talk about LASS 3?



the audiobro team mentioned LASS 3 being one of their next priorities in their official forum


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## mojamusic (May 17, 2019)

kessel said:


> the audiobro team mentioned LASS 3 being one of their next priorities in their official forum



If this is true... LASS 3 will be my final string library purchase (oooo or maybe free upgrade!)


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## kessel (May 17, 2019)

mojamusic said:


> If this is true... LASS 3 will be my final string library purchase (oooo or maybe free upgrade!)



Yes, I actually asked themselves in the forum, I can give you a link to the thread where they answered, you need to be logged in to view it I think, but I don't think it will be free, that'd be great indeed

Edit: here is the link
https://audiobro.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4134


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## re-peat (May 17, 2019)

robgb said:


> You will never be able to render any sample instrument to rival the real thing. There are too many mechanical and human factors involved that can't be duplicated with sample instruments. The question I have is WHY would you want to reproduce this? As a learning exercise, maybe, or just for fun, but as a final produced piece of music? What's the point? Simply by their nature, sample libraries will always be limited.



I know, Rob. You’re talking to the greatest non-believer (regarding samples being able to replace more than 5% of the real thing) that ever walked through V.I.’s door. And no one dislikes classical mock-ups more than I do. That's definitely not what I'm after.

The first reason I brought it up, is because some of my music — the pieces that rely on a strings-like presence — would be extremely well served if that presence were somehow capable, much more than it is capable today, of suggesting some of the same gestures, phrasings, pronunciations, performances, dynamics, articulations, textures, etc … as those I’ve collected in that collage. 

The second reason is that the library which you declare your final purchase, as far as string libraries are concerned, and which I own too, has, again, not brought me one step closer to seeing/hearing that desire expressed in the previous point fulfilled. So, unlike you, I’m not done buying strings libraries. I wish I were, but I’m not.

I can understand the Studio Strings qualifying as the end of the purchasing line for some people. If your music falls entirely within what that library is capable of and good at, then: sure. Mine however, falls almost completely outside it, despite the fact that, on paper, good studio strings is exactly what it needs.

So, secretly I also hope that some developers have listened to that montage as well, and are saying to themselves: “Copulate yeah, there’s still a whooole lot of uncovered territory in the field of sampled strings. Let’s get to work, people.”

_


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## robgb (May 17, 2019)

re-peat said:


> “Copulate yeah, there’s still a whooole lot of uncovered territory in the field of sampled strings. Let’s get to work, people.”


I think that's where Sample Modeling and Audio Modeling come in. We'll see what happens. Probably the only thing that could change my mind about this being my last string library is Sample Modeling's strings turning out to be revolutionary. But I don't think that's going to happen yet.


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## Cinebient (May 17, 2019)

Another huge fan of the StudioStrings here. But i personally see a lot of added content in the pro version (more in the strings compared to the winds and brass) since the close mics here add really a lot details you cannot hear with just the tree. Works also wonderful with own reverbs to make it big but still detailed.
Maybe next wishlist sale i get the full pro bundle also for Brass and Winds (sadly i missed the sale this time). Not sure yet. I wished indeed i could choose a core+ version with just the close 1 and 2 mics.
For the Brass and Winds the tree works good (maybe even better here for me as the close, but just judged by demos i heard).
Whatever, really a great string library.
BUT....for sure not my last 
P.S. I really hope one day for a more modular set-up like per mic buy from SF.


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## jbuhler (May 17, 2019)

Cinebient said:


> Another huge fan of the StudioStrings here. But i personally see a lot of added content in the pro version (more in the strings compared to the winds and brass) since the close mics here add really a lot details you cannot hear with just the tree. Works also wonderful with own reverbs to make it big but still detailed.


Studio Brass Pro has considerably more content than the core version and other mics are generally better suited for the brass than the tree that comes with the core.


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## Cinebient (May 17, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Studio Brass Pro has considerably more content than the core version and other mics are generally better suited for the brass than the tree that comes with the core.



Yes, i just could judge it from the demos and for my personal usage and it was clear to me that i wanted the pro version after playing with the core and heard the demos with the close mics. 
For now i´m happy with the brass and winds core but i´m really tempted to complete the pro package next time to just get the closed mics on top. Of course the extra instruments and articulations are a bonus as well. So in general you get a lot more than double the content for double the price.


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## JohnG (May 17, 2019)

re-peat said:


> And yet, with all these terrabytes of samples, I still can’t do any of *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/StringsMontage.mp3 (this)*.



Alas, so true. I'm working on a string piece now and all I can think about is the blessed hour when I can replace them with real players.

Mind you it sounds ok for a mockup -- just awful though, when compared with the real thing.

(I had to turn off @re-peat 's example because it was too discouraging...)


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## DerGeist (May 17, 2019)

20 years from now we will be paying top dollar for vintage style string libraries that meticulously re-create the flaws of 2018 libraries including deep sampling of stuck notes, 20 layers of sampled piano mechanical noises that everyone turns off, and all of that exaggerated legato -- "Hey remember the legato craze of the 2010s what were we thinking?"

The dominant musical style will be Retro Orchestral Mockup Core.


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## Wolf68 (May 17, 2019)

I can't wait to buy my next string library. When it's a good one...


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## mojamusic (May 17, 2019)

JohnG said:


> Alas, so true. I'm working on a string piece now and all I can think about is the blessed hour when I can replace them with real players.
> 
> Mind you it sounds ok for a mockup -- just awful though, when compared with the real thing.
> 
> (I had to turn off @re-peat 's example because it was too discouraging...)



Sure... the samples can't sound exactly like a professional orchestra any more than a fax machine can reproduce the Mona Lisa, but that isn't the point. We know this. Don't be discouraged.


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## mojamusic (May 17, 2019)

re-peat said:


> With the money I spent on strings libraries over the past 20 years, they could rebuild a sizeable part of the roof of the Notre Dame.
> 
> And yet, with all these terrabytes of samples, I still can’t do any of *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/StringsMontage.mp3 (this)*. There’s not a singe second in this 11 minute collage — and I could easily have made it an 11-week collage — that can be rendered convincingly with any of the libraries, or combinations thereof, ever released.
> 
> ...


OMG. This sounds amazing! Where can I find these compositions? Not to detract from my post just before.

I can compartmentalize... what's real is REAL!


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 17, 2019)

re-peat said:


> With the money I spent on strings libraries over the past 20 years, they could rebuild a sizeable part of the roof of the Notre Dame.
> 
> And yet, with all these terrabytes of samples, I still can’t do any of *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/StringsMontage.mp3 (this)*. There’s not a singe second in this 11 minute collage — and I could easily have made it an 11-week collage — that can be rendered convincingly with any of the libraries, or combinations thereof, ever released.
> 
> ...



Fair enough, but when you look at how far things have come (especially in the last ten years), the sample libraries are nothing short of incredible IMO. I think we're all just so "numb" to it now that it's easy to take for granted. I could have only dreamed of today's string libraries years ago.

Just a thought, but the opening string part could probably be done with the violas "brushed short" patches in SF Studio Strings. I couldn't even imagine programming that whole piece lol! What is it, by the way? Very cool.


----------



## novaburst (May 17, 2019)

robgb said:


> You will never be able to render any sample instrument to rival the real thing. There are too many mechanical and human factors involved that can't be duplicated with sample instruments. The question I have is WHY would you want to reproduce this? As a learning exercise, maybe, or just for fun, but as a final produced piece of music? What's the point? Simply by their nature, sample libraries will always be limited.



Your confusing reading into your vibe seems like your angry or have on issue because people purchase many library's and in your mind they should just stick with a few or one,

What makes me think this is your post over on the thread *VSL Still Rocks *i want place the link but i think you know what i am talking about.

Perhaps you should have been honest with your self and titled the thread

*Why do people/composers purchase tons of library's , *then say it really annoys me.

But i am sure some one would have posted mind your own business there are many factors why people purchase many library's and you don,t really need to know, just be satisfied with what you have, or need,

Every individual is different with different needs and often times we read them wrong.


----------



## robgb (May 17, 2019)

novaburst said:


> Your confusing reading into your vibe seems like your angry or have on issue because people purchase many library's and in your mind they should just stick with a few or one,
> 
> What makes me think this is your post over on the thread *VSL Still Rocks *i want place the link but i think you know what i am talking about.
> 
> ...


Uh, you assume a lot. I think people should buy however many libraries they want and/or can afford. But I also think composers can do most of what they need to do with a couple good libraries if they take the time to learn to mix. How, exactly, does that make me angry?

No, I suspect the anger is coming from you. But I could be wrong. Relax, man. All is good. Buy as many libraries as you like. I don't really care.


----------



## nas (May 17, 2019)

Strange how these threads can start to go South for no apparent reason.


----------



## Parsifal666 (May 17, 2019)

re-peat said:


> I know, Rob. You’re talking to the greatest non-believer (regarding samples being able to replace more than 5% of the real thing) that ever walked through V.I.’s door. And no one dislikes classical mock-ups more than I do. That's definitely not what I'm after.
> 
> The first reason I brought it up, is because some of my music — the pieces that rely on a strings-like presence — would be extremely well served if that presence were somehow capable, much more than it is capable today, of suggesting some of the same gestures, phrasings, pronunciations, performances, dynamics, articulations, textures, etc … as those I’ve collected in that collage.
> 
> ...


I'm surprised you give 5%. I sure don't.


----------



## dcoscina (May 17, 2019)

I attended a performance of Shostakovich’s 10th symphony by the TSO Youth Orchestra and even at their level, they sounded better than all the sample libraries I own (well, the horns were a bit rough and the principal was having an off day). I think sample modelling is the right direction towards more expressive simulations of real instruments. Samples are snapshots only and despite all of the programming and finessing they will always remain a copy of the original.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 17, 2019)

For me, it's not about recreating an authentic, verbatim orchestra. It's about producing an amazing sounding piece of music from the comfort of my own studio (even if the orchestrations aren't formally perfect, which mine definitely aren't). My satisfaction comes from knowing that the average listener doesn't even know it's a synthetic production. It's a great feeling when a director asks me if it's real or not. In my current arsenal, SF Studio Strings will make things even more convincing.


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## robgb (May 17, 2019)

nas said:


> Strange how these threads can start to go South for no apparent reason.


Agreed. There's no reason for it to. Have I mentioned that I'm loving Studio Strings?


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## Parsifal666 (May 17, 2019)

robgb said:


> Agreed. There's no reason for it to. Have I mentioned that I'm loving Studio Strings?


I'm still kicking myself. I should have bought the three in a bundle. Oh well, BF isn't too faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrr.


----------



## mojamusic (May 17, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> For me, it's not about recreating an authentic, verbatim orchestra. It's about producing an amazing sounding piece of music from the comfort of my own studio (even if the orchestrations aren't formally perfect, which mine definitely aren't). My satisfaction comes from knowing that the average listener doesn't even know it's a synthetic production. It's a great feeling when a director asks me if it's real or not. In my current arsenal, SF Studio Strings will make things even more convincing.



Average listeners aren't even aware of what's happening underneath films... they think it's the acting that makes them cry!


----------



## Sean (May 17, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> I'm still kicking myself. I should have bought the three in a bundle. Oh well, BF isn't too faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrr.


Hey man right now I'm wishing I got the brass pro. Who needs food?


----------



## robgb (May 17, 2019)

By the way, anyone who has purchased Studio Strings should download Cory Pelizzari's custom multis that he has for download. They're pretty terrific. Check out his Youtube review for a link. Keep in mind that I could only get them to work in the Kontakt 6 player. (I have Kontakt 5.8 full)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_ANfIulrcJ1LvtZVNFdexg


----------



## nas (May 17, 2019)

robgb said:


> Agreed. There's no reason for it to. Have I mentioned that I'm loving Studio Strings?



I think you may have mentioned that somewhere, but for the life of me I can't remember where exactly? More power to you... and may they bring you hours of inspiration and music creation.


----------



## novaburst (May 18, 2019)

nas said:


> Strange how these threads can start to go South for no apparent reason.


Dont worry man not taking the thread west


----------



## novaburst (May 18, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> For me, it's not about recreating an authentic, verbatim orchestra. It's about producing an amazing sounding piece of music from the comfort of my own studio


This


----------



## nas (May 18, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Fair enough, but when you look at how far things have come (especially in the last ten years), the sample libraries are nothing short of incredible IMO. I think we're all just so "numb" to it now that it's easy to take for granted. I could have only dreamed of today's string libraries years ago.





Wolfie2112 said:


> For me, it's not about recreating an authentic, verbatim orchestra. It's about producing an amazing sounding piece of music from the comfort of my own studio (even if the orchestrations aren't formally perfect, which mine definitely aren't). My satisfaction comes from knowing that the average listener doesn't even know it's a synthetic production. It's a great feeling when a director asks me if it's real or not. In my current arsenal, SF Studio Strings will make things even more convincing.



Here... here! I totally agree with you. Sure there is absolutely nothing like the real thing.. IMHO that's already a given... and it also need not be mutually exclusive, but man have things come a long way in the last 20 years and making music today is an absolute joy. It's nice to hear a positive voice among some of the exhausting negativity and cynicism.


----------



## Ashermusic (May 18, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> For me, it's not about recreating an authentic, verbatim orchestra. It's about producing an amazing sounding piece of music from the comfort of my own studio (even if the orchestrations aren't formally perfect, which mine definitely aren't). My satisfaction comes from knowing that the average listener doesn't even know it's a synthetic production. It's a great feeling when a director asks me if it's real or not. In my current arsenal, SF Studio Strings will make things even more convincing.



Ironically perhaps, the closer the libraries become, the more the inadequacies are reveled, because the expectation of how close they can come has increased dramatically.

As I have said (add nauseum, I know) the more you focus on trying to make it sound really good to your ears and the less you worry about authenticity, frequently the better result you get.


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## Sears Poncho (Sep 5, 2019)

Old thread is old, but...



robgb said:


> Regular. With Pro you get divisi instruments, more legato patches, and several more microphone positions, but I'm not sure it's worth the added cost.



I upgraded to Pro from Core. It's waaaaay worth the added cost. For me, it was the upgrade plus I had it send on hard drive plus I had to buy a new SSD drive since it's a ginormous library, so it wasn't cheap. Couldn't be happier, and I agree on the "last library" thing... for a few months. Or weeks. 

The divisi and mic stuff is a lot more than one might think. Mic 2 is basically a "first chair" mic. This makes for a lot of possibilities. The little sections are the fun ones to work with. So, one celli section might have 3 players then one can add another section with a first chair-ish sound. For the fiddles there are 4 small sections so that could be 4 first chair-ish players together, or so many other lineups. There aren't 4 "first chairs", there are 11-12 for the core patches since all the small sections have a first chair mic. The mic combos and section combos are endless, I've been tinkering for hours and barely scratched the surface.

Check out the clip. I chose 3 first chair mics, just at random. That first viola lick sounds pretty damn good for a feature they don't even mention!


----------



## Parsifal666 (Sep 5, 2019)

In answer to the topic: then you better hope you bought Hollywood Strings.


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 5, 2019)

*"I've Bought My Last String Library"*


Errr... no. No you didn't. Nobody ever does that.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Sep 5, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> *"I've Bought My Last String Library"*
> 
> 
> Errr... no. No you didn't. Nobody ever does that.



Temptation can be overwhelming...especially hanging around here a lot.


----------



## dgburns (Sep 5, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> *"I've Bought My Last String Library"*
> 
> 
> Errr... no. No you didn't. Nobody ever does that.



Ha ha ha ha ha ha .... noooooooh, no you didn’t !!

nothing like the real thing darling (say it in a real good Freddie Mercury accent)

Just wait till you hire a real string section. (or worse, work for someone who demands one)


----------



## constaneum (Sep 5, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> Temptation can be overwhelming...especially hanging around here a lot.



true ! so dont come to the forum too often. 4 times a year is good enough. AND !!! make sure you get your wife or husband to manage your credit cards, paypal accounts and etc !!  you know the need to get the green light to get through him/her first before purchasing things. That'll be a way to ease the temptation. haha


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## jaketanner (Sep 5, 2019)

For those who are lucky enough to have the pro version...it's 100% worth the extra. I've spent a bit of time messing with each mic position to get a rich full sound that's super warm yet cuts through nicely on the highs. You need to also play with the stereo width a bit for each mic...but once you have your combination...save it, and transfer to every patch. It's amazing how versatile this library can get. At first I had my doubts about the sound...but after I played around and really messed with the mics and width, I found a combination that's fantastic. TBH, the default T1 mic does not do this library justice at all. 

So those that have pro...do yourselves a favor and take advantage of the mic possibilities, and not just the divisi.


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## robgb (Sep 6, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> TBH, the default T1 mic does not do this library justice at all.


Yet I only have the T1 mic and love the library.


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## jaketanner (Sep 6, 2019)

robgb said:


> Yet I only have the T1 mic and love the library.


I guess you have no choice. Lol but seriously, when you can, upgrade. It’s a whole new world.


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## ChristianM (Sep 7, 2019)

LASS 3 will smash all the other string libraries


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## jaketanner (Sep 7, 2019)

ChristianM said:


> LASS 3 will smash all the other string libraries


I might agree. But won’t be until we’ll after the new year.


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## Kony (Sep 7, 2019)

*"I've Bought My Last String Library"*

Is this a typo? Did you mean to say you've bought your _latest _string library?


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## David Cuny (Sep 7, 2019)

*You've just bought your last string library...*

says my wife, as she shreds up my credit card.


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## BlackDorito (Sep 7, 2019)

*You've just bought your last string library...*

The oncologist comes in with a crestfallen look .. "The tests were not good. I'm afraid you've bought your last string library."


----------



## Sears Poncho (Sep 7, 2019)

Just took a quick look at my libraries. I have about 500 gigs devoted to strings.....

.... that's just not gonna be enough.  Now I need Studio Solo Strings Pro. 210 gigs of it, recorded in that same space. Get right on that. Thanks, Spitfire!


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## chocobitz825 (Sep 7, 2019)

there is never an end. The more you have, the more options you have. I had a musical song that was perfect when blended with spitfire chamber strings and Venice Modern Strings blended together. I had another track that soared with Berlin Strings. Sometimes smaller songs have done better with 8DIO intimate strings...the more strings you have, the more options you have...there is no end...no final library...just a black hole in your credit card, sucking away your money lol


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## constaneum (Sep 7, 2019)

ChristianM said:


> LASS 3 will smash all the other string libraries



No way if it's just mainly improvement of GUI like Genesis and the scoring brass with some new articulations .


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## kessel (Sep 10, 2019)

constaneum said:


> No way if it's just mainly improvement of GUI like Genesis and the scoring brass with some new articulations .



But that's actually enough for LASS 3 to smash all the other string libraries 

I actually like LASS 2 the most of all libraries I've used so far, but I hope LASS 3 is more than just a aesthetics update


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## Greg (Sep 10, 2019)

If only I had a new string library for every time Ive told myself that I don't need another string library..


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## chocobitz825 (Sep 10, 2019)

Greg said:


> If only I had a new string library for every time Ive told myself that I don't need another string library..



Lol then you’d have as many string libraries as you have


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## Bluemount Score (Sep 10, 2019)

I see this becoming a meme!
Lots of pressure for @robgb but I'm sure he doesn't mind too much, which is fine.

Maybe I already but my last string library, but I'm still young and way too excited to see what modern sample technology will make possible in the upcoming future.


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## PaulieDC (Sep 10, 2019)

Kony said:


> *"I've Bought My Last String Library"*
> 
> Is this a typo? Did you mean to say you've bought your _latest _string library?


You win the Reply of the Week Award...


----------



## PaulieDC (Sep 10, 2019)

As a noob(ish) dude getting up to speed with all this, one thing is for sure: my current string libraries collectively are WAY better than my ability to program them, lol. So I should be saying the same thing, right? I don't need another string library... and I actually said I'm not even going to look at anything else right now... thanks Spitfire, all of us patch junkies really needed BBCSO dangling out there. 

But it's a hoot, the libraries I thought would be so awesome at the beginning aren't even on the list anymore ("wow, look at the gorgeous brown/gold interface on NI Symphony Strings! And it has this thing called Divisi or something like that... that HAS to be the best!" ~Yes, I said that). SO, forget "arriving", I haven't even caught the shuttle to the airport yet on producing good compositions, and I'm already out a few grand on libraries alone. What's gonna happen when I finally get to the point of creating decent stuff?? "Honey, would you mind if we took out a home equity loan, you know, just in case something should come up...".

Resistance is futile.


----------



## Kony (Sep 10, 2019)

PaulieDC said:


> You win the Reply of the Week Award...


Haha thanks


----------



## Crowe (Sep 10, 2019)

PaulieDC said:


> "wow, look at the gorgeous brown/gold interface on NI Symphony Strings!"



To be fair, the interface is gorgeous.

And the divisi is good.

and it's the best I got right now


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## LHall (Sep 11, 2019)

I really like the sound of these. From the walkthrough they sound like they could be very flexible. But the lack of portamento in the divisi sections is a huge void. For me, the variations in divisi portamentos really help create emotion and convincing runs.


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## jaketanner (Sep 11, 2019)

LHall said:


> I really like the sound of these. From the walkthrough they sound like they could be very flexible. But the lack of portamento in the divisi sections is a huge void. For me, the variations in divisi portamentos really help create emotion and convincing runs.


what library are you referring to?


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## jaketanner (Sep 11, 2019)

LHall said:


> the lack of portamento in the divisi sections is a huge void


I see...you mean SStS..I just checked. Yes it's only in the (8) section...but if you layer them with the 4s, the portamento should still be heard. I agree though, that it should have been for all sections...would have been much better, and I didn't even notice until you mentioned it. Damn ..LOL


----------



## robgb (Sep 11, 2019)

Meetyhtan said:


> Lots of pressure for @robgb but I'm sure he doesn't mind too much, which is fine.


I haven't cracked yet.


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## robgb (Sep 11, 2019)

PaulieDC said:


> Resistance is futile.


I think you can pickup the entire Spitfire catalogue for about $24,000.


----------



## Quasar (Sep 11, 2019)

robgb said:


> I haven't cracked yet.


I am done buying string libraries too, and I don't even have most of the pricier ones that are held in the highest regard here.

My issue is that when I "geeked out" in 2016 and became obsessed with having EVERY musical instrument possibility covered in virtual form, I began relentlessly pursuing holiday deals, outlet sales etc., and bought an absurd number of various string libraries, some really good, some good but limited, and some not so much. I could type out a list, but this would be both long and embarrassing...

...Meanwhile I'm still just dabbling amateurishly at orchestration. Although I do work on something music-related every day, there are so many educational rabbit holes to fall into: Besides orchestration, there is general theory, jazz theory, old-fashioned piano practice. Then there is the whole home studio audio engineering side of the street: Mixing, using effects, DAW tips & tricks etc.

I've entirely stopped caring how the libraries I have might compare with any of the ones that I don't. I already have far, far more than enough to make music, and to a degree that is nothing less than ridiculous. There are still some pop/rock/jazz solo horn colors I wish to acquire, but beyond that I am DONE buying VI's period, strings or otherwise.

For the first and only time in my life, I fell into a consumeristic trap. It's like someone who decides they want to practice yoga and meditate, so they fall in love with buying incense, yoga mats & pillows, special spandex clothing, books, Tibetan chimes etc., and this becomes the primary infatuation rather than the real work of doing yoga and actually meditating. I became something like that with VIs, but I'm over it now.


----------



## novaburst (Sep 11, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> *"I've Bought My Last String Library"*
> 
> 
> Errr... no. No you didn't. Nobody ever does that.



Well actually I think its time to stop with this string library buying its just to much and i am finished with it.
..................there is just one more I am going to check out because i hear the tone is out of this world and that is it. ......oh and then i am waiting for the BF sales to pick just one more up and i am through.
I heard there is a developer in the process of creating a really good string library i might just go for that and i promise its my last one no more...........

Then i am going to start on getting my brass up to date ....... but that dont count as strings ....does it


----------



## borisb2 (Sep 11, 2019)

Quasar said:


> For the first and only time in my life, I fell into a consumeristic trap. It's like someone who decides they want to practice yoga and meditate, so they fall in love with buying incense, yoga mats & pillows, special spandex clothing, books, Tibetan chimes etc., and this becomes the primary infatuation rather than the real work of doing yoga and actually meditating. I became something like that with VIs, but I'm over it now


Sh*t.. I just realized...



novaburst said:


> Well actually I think its time to stop with this string library buying its just to much and i am finished with it.


So what next? You moved to brass?? Haha


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Sep 11, 2019)

Quasar said:


> became obsessed with having EVERY musical instrument possibility covered in virtual form, I began relentlessly pursuing holiday deals, outlet sales etc., and bought an absurd number of various string libraries, some really good, some good but limited, and some not so much. I could type out a list, but this would be both long and embarrassing...



Lol! I'm pretty sure that most of this forum is in the same boat, myself included. If it makes you happy, there are worse things to blow your money on. If it makes you feel better, I have six complete drum kits, over fifty cymbals, and too many guitars.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 11, 2019)

Every time I read the headline for your post it renews my admiration for your certainty and self-control. 

And then...

I start wondering that if it has satisfied you so much, should I put Spitfire Studio Strings on my Christmas Wish List? I am very happy with CSS, but I would never say I have bought my LAST string library, because I just don't know. What if something crazy good came out at some crazy low price? 

Maybe if I spent money on SSS I would be completely satisfied and I would never spend any more money. My life would be complete, String Library-wise. 

And then I wonder... regular one or full one with all the microphones?


----------



## Sears Poncho (Sep 11, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> And then I wonder... regular one or full one with all the microphones?


Full one, no comparison (I have both). It's not just the mics, it's the extra sections. I know people call them "divisi" but that's not really what they are. Basically, you get two chamber orch-size string sections (4/3/3/3, (no extra basses) in addition to the full one, plus you get almost-first chairs due to the mics (mic 2 is the first chair mic). You can mix and match for days.

It's 210 gigs. It feels like it.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 11, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Full one, no comparison (I have both). It's not just the mics, it's the extra sections. I know people call them "divisi" but that's not really what they are. Basically, you get two chamber orch-size string sections (4/3/3/3, (no extra basses) in addition to the full one, plus you get almost-first chairs due to the mics (mic 2 is the first chair mic). You can mix and match for days.
> 
> It's 210 gigs. It feels like it.


Thanks! Good to know it's only 210 gigs. I thought it might be a big library.


----------



## jaketanner (Sep 11, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> over fifty cymbals


well you clearly can't have 49 cymbals..that's just weird.. LOL. I hav ea ton of sample libraries also, and always looking for more. I don't look at it as a want, it's a need because each has a unique sound..just like cymbal 35 and cymbal #2 have different sounds... )


----------



## dgburns (Sep 11, 2019)

re-peat said:


> With the money I spent on strings libraries over the past 20 years, they could rebuild a sizeable part of the roof of the Notre Dame.
> 
> And yet, with all these terrabytes of samples, I still can’t do any of *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/StringsMontage.mp3 (this)*. There’s not a singe second in this 11 minute collage — and I could easily have made it an 11-week collage — that can be rendered convincingly with any of the libraries, or combinations thereof, ever released.
> 
> ...



That’s cause you suck


----------



## jaketanner (Sep 11, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Full one, no comparison (I have both). It's not just the mics, it's the extra sections. I know people call them "divisi" but that's not really what they are. Basically, you get two chamber orch-size string sections (4/3/3/3, (no extra basses) in addition to the full one, plus you get almost-first chairs due to the mics (mic 2 is the first chair mic). You can mix and match for days.
> 
> It's 210 gigs. It feels like it.


It is divisi since the actual recording of the ensemble is 8,6,6,6,3...though it was 4 CBS but maybe 3. Then twice split by 2 additional recorded sections of an a and b. Blended with all three it sounds amazing BUT...you definitely need the additional Mics to pull it off. I got a nice big sound out of them. Quite happy.


----------



## Sears Poncho (Sep 11, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> It is divisi since the actual recording of the ensemble is 8,6,6,6,3...though it was 4 CBS but maybe 3. Then twice split by 2 additional recorded sections of an a and b


Correct. I don't want people to get the idea that there is some sort of "auto-divisi", there isn't. And, only the core articulations are covered, as mentioned above with the lack of portamento in the small sections.... but the small sections are awesome.


----------



## borisb2 (Sep 12, 2019)




----------



## Batrawi (Sep 12, 2019)

I usually buy my last string library when I die right afterwards


----------



## Crowe (Sep 12, 2019)

Batrawi said:


> I usually buy my last string library when I die right afterwards



Does that happen often to you?


----------



## AndyP (Sep 12, 2019)

I bought my last string library ... definitely ...






for today ...


----------



## Batrawi (Sep 12, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> Does that happen often to you?


no...."usually"


----------



## Sears Poncho (Sep 12, 2019)

I am now a huge fan of this library.....


..... but I don't like the legato celli. Shorts are great, everything else is great, but I can't get the celli to "sing". Maybe I suck, that's always a possibility.  Or, maybe they are just lifeless and staid cello samples. Violas sound great legato. I've tried sneaking in first chairs (LASS, CSSS, Tina Guo) but the section Spitfire celli just ain't a-doing it.

Which means I have to buy more stuff. Aww shucks.


----------



## jaketanner (Sep 12, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> I am now a huge fan of this library.....
> 
> 
> ..... but I don't like the legato celli. Shorts are great, everything else is great, but I can't get the celli to "sing". Maybe I suck, that's always a possibility.  Or, maybe they are just lifeless and staid cello samples. Violas sound great legato. I've tried sneaking in first chairs (LASS, CSSS, Tina Guo) but the section Spitfire celli just ain't a-doing it.
> ...


What's happening exactly? And are you using the divisi celli?


----------



## jaketanner (Sep 12, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> but I don't like the legato celli


ok..Think I know the issue. The celli in this library...and the library as a whole, is not meant for super lyrical music...and the lack of vibrato is what's killing them. Compared to other libraries, SStS has minimal vibrato as a whole, and I actually like that flexibility...if you need something that is super emotional, then maybe this library isn't the best choice. 

I also think the cellos don't have a nice sweet attack...it's a bit harsh and to the point, and that also kills it a bit. I think as with any library, there isn't one that does everything well..always a give and take. I love the sound overall, and for how I am using the cellos, it works...but I definitely hear what you mean...they don't "sing".


----------



## Sears Poncho (Sep 12, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> but I definitely hear what you mean...they don't "sing".


I think overall heaviness of sound. I have made some progress by making custom 6/3/3 mixes with a lot of mic experimentation. It just seems a little stale, somewhat hard to put my finger on it. 


jaketanner said:


> if you need something that is super emotional, then maybe this library isn't the best choice.


I have a real cellist at my disposal as well, he'll be overdubbing tracks. This is good.  I overdub violins and violas.


----------



## jaketanner (Sep 12, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> I think overall heaviness of sound. I have made some progress by making custom 6/3/3 mixes with a lot of mic experimentation. It just seems a little stale, somewhat hard to put my finger on it.
> 
> I have a real cellist at my disposal as well, he'll be overdubbing tracks. This is good.  I overdub violins and violas.


That's awesome to have live musicians on top. But I do think the lack of vibrato is what's killing the cellos especially. Cellos in general benefit greatly from a nice vibrato...this library isn't it. 

I've also experimented with the mics...got a huge sound I am happy with for a piece I am working on. Sounds nice a big with details. I am also not 100% thrilled with the CB...they do sound a bit harsh, and I feel that the mic mixes need to change a little per section to truly work. Always experimenting. LOL


----------



## Sears Poncho (Sep 12, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Always experimenting. LOL


Here, see what you think. I think I could have used the mod wheel more, but the tone is getting there...


----------



## jaketanner (Sep 12, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Here, see what you think. I think I could have used the mod wheel more, but the tone is getting there...


yes, getting there. I think the attack of each sample is what's bothering me most now. Try this mic mix as a starting point and adjust from there. Add the on board reverb a bit...if in stand alone mode, otherwise use a good reverb with them, it helps. I use SPACES II...

Also aside from these mic positions, go into the width editor and adjust the width of some mics...this adds a bit of space. Usually the C1 and C2 are enough to add some of that.


----------



## Sears Poncho (Sep 12, 2019)

Here's another. I cheated. Why? Because I am a cheater.  I slipped in one CSSS cello. I also have 3 instances of SStS celli, panned a little wider etc. This is what I was missing before, the CSSS cello is low in the mix but has enough vibrato to change the whole sound.


----------



## jaketanner (Sep 12, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Here's another. I cheated. Why? Because I am a cheater.  I slipped in one CSSS cello. I also have 3 instances of SStS celli, panned a little wider etc. This is what I was missing before, the CSSS cello is low in the mix but has enough vibrato to change the whole sound.


way smoother...sounds like you altered the mics too? If that's what CSSS did to the library, I should have gotten it a long time ago. I may still get it to go with my CSS anyway, but I held off.


----------



## jaketanner (Sep 12, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Here's another. I cheated. Why? Because I am a cheater.  I slipped in one CSSS cello. I also have 3 instances of SStS celli, panned a little wider etc. This is what I was missing before, the CSSS cello is low in the mix but has enough vibrato to change the whole sound.


Just tried this same trick with SF solo strings...being recorded at AIR studios..man, it works REALLY nice. Low in the mix, adds a very nice sound to it. Do you have them?


----------



## ism (Sep 12, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Just tried this same trick with SF solo strings...being recorded at AIR studios..man, it works REALLY nice. Low in the mix, adds a very nice sound to it. Do you have them?




And the really nice think about Spitfire solo strings vs csss (as I understand it) is that Spitfire SS do dynamic cross fades, so you’ll get timbre change as the dynamics change. Libs like CSSS and even the Joshua Bell that don’t attempt dynamic cross fade really don’t give you the same effect.

(Of course the cost of dynamics cross fades is a bumpiness in SSS that you don’t get in libs that don’t, but this doesn’t necessarily matter so much in context.)


----------



## anp27 (Sep 12, 2019)

robgb said:


> and since I got it for $100 off, I have to say it's the best value string library I own.


How much did you end up paying for it? I'm looking to purchase my first ever Spitfire instrument library over the holiday sales and Studio Strings is looking like a serious option.


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## jaketanner (Sep 12, 2019)

ism said:


> And the really nice think about Spitfire solo strings vs csss (as I understand it) is that Spitfire SS do dynamic cross fades, so you’ll get timbre change as the dynamics change. Libs like CSSS and even the Joshua Bell that don’t attempt dynamic cross fade really don’t give you the same effect.
> 
> (Of course the cost of dynamics cross fades is a bumpiness in SSS that you don’t get in libs that don’t, but this doesn’t necessarily matter so much in context.)


Whatever they do, they pair quite nicely...love the one instrument with a huge ambience...adds so much to a whole section that's drier.


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## Sears Poncho (Sep 13, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Just tried this same trick with SF solo strings...being recorded at AIR studios..man, it works REALLY nice. Low in the mix, adds a very nice sound to it. Do you have them?


Not....yet.


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## jaketanner (Sep 13, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Not....yet.


BF is just around the corner.


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## Sears Poncho (Sep 13, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> BF is just around the corner.


Do they do BF? I thought they only did the after Christmas wish list...


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## jaketanner (Sep 13, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Do they do BF? I thought they only did the after Christmas wish list...


Now you got me thinking. Not sure. Lol. Damn


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## robgb (Sep 13, 2019)

anp27 said:


> How much did you end up paying for it? I'm looking to purchase my first ever Spitfire instrument library over the holiday sales and Studio Strings is looking like a serious option.


Don’t remember exactly, but it was approximately $100 off the normal price. For a limited time, if you use the coupon code SCORE (courtesy of Score podcast), you can get 33% off any purchase from Spitfire. Even upgrades.


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## jaketanner (Sep 13, 2019)

robgb said:


> Don’t remember exactly, but it was approximately $100 off the normal price. For a limited time, if you use the coupon code SCORE (courtesy of Score podcast), you can get 33% off any purchase from Spitfire. Even upgrades.


Wow. Didn’t know that. Thanks for sharing. That’s better than my edu


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## robgb (Sep 13, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Wow. Didn’t know that. Thanks for sharing. That’s better than my edu


Yeah, if I decided to upgrade SStS, I could do it for $150.


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## jaketanner (Sep 13, 2019)

robgb said:


> Yeah, if I decided to upgrade SStS, I could do it for $150.


Cool. You should. It’s well worth it.


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## Sears Poncho (Sep 13, 2019)

robgb said:


> Don’t remember exactly, but it was approximately $100 off the normal price. For a limited time, if you use the coupon code SCORE (courtesy of Score podcast), you can get 33% off any purchase from Spitfire. Even upgrades.


Whoa, thanks Rob!! LCO strings was just purchased!


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## anp27 (Sep 13, 2019)

robgb said:


> Don’t remember exactly, but it was approximately $100 off the normal price. For a limited time, if you use the coupon code SCORE (courtesy of Score podcast), you can get 33% off any purchase from Spitfire. Even upgrades.


Thanks for the info!


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## Sears Poncho (Sep 14, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> LCO strings was just purchased!



Adding LCO to SStS = We're not in Kansas anymore. Blends very well, very dry. Pizz is a ...... wait for it..... game changer.  It's a bit sloppy in addition to being rough. Talk about "realism". "Staccato dig" as well. Real Shostakovitch type sound. 

I'm thoroughly amused that the shorts aren't always "together"... 'cause that's how it is in real life as well. Whether or not that was intentional on Spitfire's part, well, I don't really care as the result is amazing.


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## ism (Sep 14, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Adding LCO to SStS = We're not in Kansas anymore. Blends very well, very dry. Pizz is a ...... wait for it..... game changer.  It's a bit sloppy in addition to being rough. Talk about "realism". "Staccato dig" as well. Real Shostakovitch type sound.
> 
> I'm thoroughly amused that the shorts aren't always "together"... 'cause that's how it is in real life as well. Whether or not that was intentional on Spitfire's part, well, I don't really care as the result is amazing.



Great idea. Can't believe I've never thought of it that way.


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## Erick - BVA (Sep 14, 2019)

robgb said:


> Nope.


Do you have Afflatus?


----------



## Sears Poncho (Sep 15, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Whoa, thanks Rob!! LCO strings was just purchased!


Well, I really couldn't pass up that 33% off, so I got Spitfire solo strings as well.  I'm done now, nothing more to get. Anywhere. The circle is complete, the prophecy has been fulfilled, the sacred parchment has revealed the noble truth: "I've bought my last string library".




For a while.....


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## ChristianM (Sep 21, 2019)

I also bought because of the 33% and the number of articulations ... but the next is still LASS 3 anyway (I have 2.5 full)


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## PaulieDC (Sep 23, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> To be fair, the interface is gorgeous.
> 
> And the divisi is good.
> 
> and it's the best I got right now


It IS gorgeous, TBH it's my favorite to this day.


----------



## Bollen (Sep 23, 2019)

robgb said:


> Spitfire's Studio Strings. I have been critical of Spitfire in the past, about their prices and about their reliance on the hype of Air Lyndhurst and about my disappointment with Albion One. Well, they have really knocked it out of the park with Studio Strings, and since I got it for $100 off, I have to say it's the best value string library I own. It's still a fantastic value at its regular price.
> 
> It's very close to dry—which I prefer—and the recordings and scripting are phenomenal. Also, the list of articulations is longer than most string libraries at this price point, and probably at much higher price points.
> 
> I honestly can't see the need to buy another string library.



To be perfectly frank, I said the same thing when I bought VSL Dimension strings back in the day and have stayed true to my oath. The only time I've been tempted was precisely with this library....! So far staying strong!


----------



## jaketanner (Sep 23, 2019)

Bollen said:


> So far staying strong!


just do it...LOL The pro version is where the beauty lies, because aside from the smaller sections which are awesome, and the full combined section ensemble, the extra mics add a depth and sound to this library that makes it extremely versatile.


----------



## Bollen (Sep 23, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> just do it...LOL The pro version is where the beauty lies, because aside from the smaller sections which are awesome, and the full combined section ensemble, the extra mics add a depth and sound to this library that makes it extremely versatile.


Hmmm...! Tempting, tempting... But now this SampleModelling has me intrigued... I'm hoping a (near)future update might get rid of the synthy bit and who knows...? What I really want is a library that will allow me to manipulate all 14 violins of a string section independently! 4 divisis don't seem enough for £449....


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## Sears Poncho (Sep 23, 2019)

Bollen said:


> 4 divisis don't seem enough for £449....



There are 6: Violin 1 =8/4/4 and Violin 2 =6/3/3.

Better yet, each of them has a first chair mic. So now we're into the maths n' stuff.  First chair mic from group A plus 3 players from B plus 4 from C with ambient mic etc. I add in LCO strings and solo strings. I stopped making music, it's too complex.


----------



## Bollen (Sep 23, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> There are 6: Violin 1 =8/4/4 and Violin 2 =6/3/3.
> 
> Better yet, each of them has a first chair mic. So now we're into the maths n' stuff.  First chair mic from group A plus 3 players from B plus 4 from C with ambient mic etc. I add in LCO strings and solo strings. I stopped making music, it's too complex.



Still... Not 14


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## jaketanner (Sep 24, 2019)

Bollen said:


> Hmmm...! Tempting, tempting... But now this SampleModelling has me intrigued... I'm hoping a (near)future update might get rid of the synthy bit and who knows...? What I really want is a library that will allow me to manipulate all 14 violins of a string section independently! 4 divisis don't seem enough for £449....


Divisi for all separate players is only in VSL Vol 5, as far as I know...you can separate all mics to create whatever section you want, and each has a different sound. I don't like this approach because it's not truly the same as having multiple players play at the same time to create a thick ensemble. SF has an 8, 4 and 4...similar for violin 2 6,3,3 and the other sections all break down similarly. So one main, then 2 divisi of that main..combine them all and you have a larger main section...16 player violin 1 alone, 12 Vln 2...etc. Sounds really nice though. And you can use the SF transpose trick here as well to get an even thicker sound.


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## jaketanner (Sep 24, 2019)

Bollen said:


> But now this SampleModelling has me intrigued... I'm hoping a (near)future update might get rid of the synthy bit and who knows


I think the synthy sound will not get fixed, unless it was a mistake in mic placement and they created a phasing issue when there shouldn't have been. I think for the most part, the sound of every library is the sound, short of re-recording samples. 8DIO went through this recently with an update to a very old library...the sound is basically the same, they addressed playability issues, and pulled from only what they considered the "best" samples, but in terms of sound...it's basically the same if not worse..LOL But more playable...will give them that at least.


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## Bollen (Sep 24, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Divisi for all separate players is only in VSL Vol 5, as far as I know...you can separate all mics to create whatever section you want, and each has a different sound. I don't like this approach because it's not truly the same as having multiple players play at the same time to create a thick ensemble. SF has an 8, 4 and 4...similar for violin 2 6,3,3 and the other sections all break down similarly. So one main, then 2 divisi of that main..combine them all and you have a larger main section...16 player violin 1 alone, 12 Vln 2...etc. Sounds really nice though. And you can use the SF transpose trick here as well to get an even thicker sound.


Hi Jake, yes thank you. If you had noticed my previous post you would know that I already have the VSL Dimension strings, which is the same without new player. BUT and that's a big BUT, it's only 8 players... A rather small ensemble if you ask me, I want 14!!!:emoji_angry:. I have had the best results re: realism with dimensions, but the section is just not big enough. SF sounds really lovely, but again, doesn't offer the level of Divisi I require for the music I write...


----------



## Bollen (Sep 24, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> I think the synthy sound will not get fixed, unless it was a mistake in mic placement and they created a phasing issue when there shouldn't have been. I think for the most part, the sound of every library is the sound, short of re-recording samples. 8DIO went through this recently with an update to a very old library...the sound is basically the same, they addressed playability issues, and pulled from only what they considered the "best" samples, but in terms of sound...it's basically the same if not worse..LOL But more playable...will give them that at least.


Of course I agree, but SM is not a sample library perse. The synthiness comes from the modelling part. All their instruments have it, it's just usually hidden much better and quieter so in a mix you don't notice it, only when exposed.


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## jaketanner (Sep 24, 2019)

Bollen said:


> SF sounds really lovely, but again, doesn't offer the level of Divisi I require for the music I write...


Do you compositions end up with live players? if so, having that much divisi seems to be problematic...and I didn't know Dimension Strings had individual players also..just thought it was new for Vol 5.


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## jaketanner (Sep 24, 2019)

Bollen said:


> Of course I agree, but SM is not a sample library perse. The synthiness comes from the modelling part. All their instruments have it, it's just usually hidden much better and quieter so in a mix you don't notice it, only when exposed.


Ah, right..sorry. It's not samples, true. So in essence, it can be addressed it seems.


----------



## Bollen (Sep 24, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Do you compositions end up with live players?


Depends, I mostly write for real ensembles so my mockups are barely sketched for the client. but when I do write just mockups I like them to be so realistic as to convince actual musicians...



jaketanner said:


> if so, having that much divisi seems to be problematic


Why? Have you ever heard Xenakis: 

You couldn't do that without 14 divisi strings...


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## Sears Poncho (Sep 24, 2019)




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## jaketanner (Sep 24, 2019)

Bollen said:


> Depends, I mostly write for real ensembles so my mockups are barely sketched for the client. but when I do write just mockups I like them to be so realistic as to convince actual musicians...
> 
> 
> Why? Have you ever heard Xenakis:
> ...



how often is this required in film scoring? But I read you have your own projects you write for...I'm wondering if the Dimensions strings you have, and the Vol 5 strings are one and the same? If not, then there is your 16 divisi.


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## Bollen (Sep 24, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> how often is this required in film scoring? But I read you have your own projects you write for...I'm wondering if the Dimensions strings you have, and the Vol 5 strings are one and the same? If not, then there is your 16 divisi.


Unfortunately they are the same....


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## Bollen (Sep 24, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


>


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## Sears Poncho (Sep 24, 2019)

Quasi-OT: when one plays in a string section, it's somewhat possible to kinda "hide" and blend in if your playing has slipped or was never that good. Certain overzealous conductors are aware of this. I believe conductor Gunther Schuller either tried or attempted to try and put a mic on each string player, so he could spy on and "isolate" the players a la Linda McCartney singing Hey Jude.  That was stopped quickly, many orchs have a "you can't do that" in their contract.

I like raising the first chair mics a bit in SStS, it's a sound I'm more familiar with. In a real orch, Sue digs in, Bob is mild, Mary has a great axe, Joe has a cigar box etc. Somehow, that works. I find the 16 violin band sound too homogeneous.


----------



## Bollen (Sep 24, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Quasi-OT: when one plays in a string section, it's somewhat possible to kinda "hide" and blend in if your playing has slipped or was never that good. Certain overzealous conductors are aware of this. I believe conductor Gunther Schuller either tried or attempted to try and put a mic on each string player, so he could spy on and "isolate" the players a la Linda McCartney singing Hey Jude.  That was stopped quickly, many orchs have a "you can't do that" in their contract.
> 
> I like raising the first chair mics a bit in SStS, it's a sound I'm more familiar with. In a real orch, Sue digs in, Bob is mild, Mary has a great axe, Joe has a cigar box etc. Somehow, that works. I find the 16 violin band sound too homogeneous.


Ah Gunther... You'll be sorely missed...


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## jaketanner (Sep 24, 2019)

Bollen said:


> Unfortunately they are the same....


Damn that sucks. Sorry.


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## muk (Sep 25, 2019)

Bollen said:


> Hi Jake, yes thank you. If you had noticed my previous post you would know that I already have the VSL Dimension strings, which is the same without new player. BUT and that's a big BUT, it's only 8 players... A rather small ensemble if you ask me, I want 14!!!:emoji_angry:. I have had the best results re: realism with dimensions, but the section is just not big enough. SF sounds really lovely, but again, doesn't offer the level of Divisi I require for the music I write...



You can create a larger ensemble with some careful choices in your template. Dimension Strings have so many articulations that it is often possible to use two separate articulations from the same player at the same time, thus doubling the number of virtual players. I described one possible approach for this in some detail here: 

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/vsl-dimension-strings-template/tutorial 44806/


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## Bollen (Sep 26, 2019)

muk said:


> You can create a larger ensemble with some careful choices in your template. Dimension Strings have so many articulations that it is often possible to use two separate articulations from the same player at the same time, thus doubling the number of virtual players. I described one possible approach for this in some detail here:
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/vsl-dimension-strings-template/tutorial 44806/


Yeah thanks muk, I have done that sometimes, but because I compose exclusively on notation that procedure can be quite difficult sometimes, depending on what you need. But anyway, that's why dimensions was the last string library I've bought to date, it's so bloody flexible!

I've also occasionally expanded the section with other solo libraries (of which I have too many), but again depends on the articulations the composition needs...


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## Mornats (Sep 27, 2019)

Is it ironic that your "last string library" thread is largely responsible for me wanting to buy SStS?

Edit: largely responsible for me having bought SStS... :D


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## Mornats (Sep 28, 2019)

Loving it so far but have only had a chance to replace my current mock up with SStS and haven't re-recorded the midi for it. Still, it sounds great to me. I'm so pleased I finally have my first pro individually-sectioned string library now.

I'm already eyeing up studio brass and woodwinds...


----------



## mdjohnson (Sep 28, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> otherwise use a good reverb with them, it helps. I use SPACES II...


Jake, what settings do you use for Spaces II with this library? I don't know what kind of music you write, but I'm going for a cinematic sound. Just upgraded to Studio Orchestra Pro. Thanks.


----------



## Sears Poncho (Sep 28, 2019)

Mornats said:


> Loving it so far but have only had a chance to replace my current mock up with SStS and haven't re-recorded the midi for it. Still, it sounds great to me. I'm so pleased I finally have my first pro individually-sectioned string library now.
> 
> I'm already eyeing up studio brass and woodwinds...


Congrats, enjoy!


----------



## ism (Sep 28, 2019)

Here’s my latest,_ well, noodle, but actually noodle is almost too generous a term it was almost an accident, kind of the compositional equivalent of a cat walking across they keyboard and something nice coming out (except that a. I don’t have a cat, and b. I did add a bit of viola counter melody after the fact)._

But my point here is just that there is such a wonderful and distinctive sound to this lib, and I really think i’m starting to get an intutive feel for it.


(this is all StSS except for the obvious Olafur Evo textures, only legato is the viola):


----------



## robgb (Sep 28, 2019)

People trying so hard to sound like a real orchestra. Why not simply accept the limitations of sample libraries and realize that the only way to sound like an actual orchestra is to hire an actual orchestra? You can still make wonderful music despite your library's inability to adhere to an impossible standard. Innovate rather than imitate.


----------



## Crowe (Sep 28, 2019)

robgb said:


> People trying so hard to sound like a real orchestra. Why not simply accept the limitations of sample libraries and realize that the only way to sound like an actual orchestra is to hire an actual orchestra? You can still make wonderful music despite your library's inability to adhere to an impossible standard. Innovate rather than imitate.



This has been bugging me as well. I try very hard to make things sound _good_. Realism is secondary at best. I'm guessing that's the difference between writing for orchestra and just making music, but that doesn't make much sense to me either as compositions written for orchestra should be played by an orchestra.

But what do I know.

I just keep reminding myself that I'm working rather hard to learn to differentiate between well-crafted sampled music and recorded orchestra music. If I actually have to work for that skill I'm pretty sure my target audience isn't going to know the difference if I do my job right.


----------



## Sears Poncho (Sep 28, 2019)

robgb said:


> People trying so hard to sound like a real orchestra. Why not simply accept the limitations of sample libraries and realize that the only way to sound like an actual orchestra is to hire an actual orchestra?


Not really following the point of this.

I write for real orch every single day, all day. I've had hundreds of orchestrations performed. Mockups can help the client, but they can also help me improve my craft. And they help pay my rent. Without rent, I'd be in front of your house with a sign, "Please give me money". Win-win for all.


----------



## robgb (Sep 28, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Not really following the point of this.
> 
> I write for real orch every single day, all day. I've had hundreds of orchestrations performed. Mockups can help the client, but they can also help me improve my craft. And they help pay my rent. Without rent, I'd be in front of your house with a sign, "Please give me money". Win-win for all.


A mockup is a mockup and isn't expected to be a perfect representation of a real orchestra. It is designed to give your client a workable idea of what the piece will sound like, not replace the orchestra altogether.

So the point is, stop trying to imitate an orchestra and accept the limitations of the library. No library will EVER sound like a real orchestra. And if you AREN'T writing for a real orchestra, turn the library's limitations on their head and make NEW sounds. Be creative. Do things no orchestra can actually do.


----------



## Sears Poncho (Sep 28, 2019)




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## jaketanner (Sep 28, 2019)

robgb said:


> A mockup is a mockup and isn't expected to be a perfect representation of a real orchestra


 Perfect no, but have you ever heard John Powells mockups, where he switches back and forth between the mock up and the actual recording? Not perfect...but damn close. The level that some mockups need to be at, seem like they need to sound like the real thing...however...The strings you use or brass or whatever are pretty much irrelevant if you do not possess the skills or knowledge to perform the parts in as an orchestra would. So are we looking to the libraries for realism, or the performance/orchestrations and mix or our mockups? Because the latter is where it's at...not in the libraries.


----------



## Mornats (Sep 29, 2019)

I'm in the middle of playing around with creating some multis with SStS. I've placed the Violins 1 economic longs alongside a second instance of the same patch. In the second instance I've transposed the strings down a semi-tone and tuned them up a semi-tone. It's starting to sound like a decent 12 part violin 1 section now. Seems a nice easy way to double up the section sizes unless I've missed something?


----------



## Manuel Stumpf (Sep 29, 2019)

Mornats said:


> I've placed the Violins 1 economic longs alongside a second instance of the same patch. In the second instance I've transposed the strings down a semi-tone and tuned them up a semi-tone.


The GUI has already a functionality for this. See attached picture.
It allows +2 and -2 semitones. Thus you can have 3 layers 
Spitfire uses 2 semitones. Probably because the lib is sampled in whole tones and thus two adjacent notes use the same samples. So transposing 2 semitones instead of 1 might give an even better result.


----------



## jaketanner (Sep 29, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Probably because the lib is sampled in whole tones


Damn..is this a guess or you know for sure? I'd hate to think SF cut corners here.


----------



## jaketanner (Sep 29, 2019)

Mornats said:


> It's starting to sound like a decent 12 part violin 1 section now


Confused..maybe I missed a post. Do you not have the pro version? If not, then how are you getting 12 violin 1, when there should be 16 if you are doubling the 8 part section. And if you DO have pro, there is really no need to do the transposition trick...they're all different sections and players. 8-4-4...but what I did is used the 8 vin1, transposed the a4 up 2, then the b4 down 2...using the SF GUI functions...this added a bit more fatness to the strings, BUT...this is not necessary at all since each divisi is totally different.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf (Sep 29, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Damn..is this a guess or you know for sure? I'd hate to think SF cut corners here.


Here for example is Violins 1 Long patch opened in Kontakt.
Looks like whole tones have been sampled, because every sample spans two semitones (except the lowest sample).
I am not an expert in that regard, nor can I check the whole library.
This is the SStS standard variant. Cannot say anything about SStS Pro.





Edit: I am not saying this is bad. Because I think most string libs out there are sampled in whole tones or even wider intervals only.


----------



## mholloway (Sep 29, 2019)

Everyone in here is referencing the price point for Spitire Studio Strings as 150 USD, but it's 249 on their website. Are you just talking about a sale that happened previously, or...?


----------



## Manuel Stumpf (Sep 29, 2019)

mholloway said:


> Everyone in here is referencing the price point for Spitire Studio Strings as 150 USD, but it's 249 on their website. Are you just talking about a sale that happened previously, or...?


Spitfire does "Wishlist Sales" now and then and those had 40% discount.


----------



## Mornats (Sep 29, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Confused..maybe I missed a post. Do you not have the pro version? If not, then how are you getting 12 violin 1, when there should be 16 if you are doubling the 8 part section. And if you DO have pro, there is really no need to do the transposition trick...they're all different sections and players. 8-4-4...but what I did is used the 8 vin1, transposed the a4 up 2, then the b4 down 2...using the SF GUI functions...this added a bit more fatness to the strings, BUT...this is not necessary at all since each divisi is totally different.



I've just got the core version and I meant 16 first violins not 12!


----------



## jaketanner (Sep 29, 2019)

Mornats said:


> I've just got the core version and I meant 16 first violins not 12!


ah ok...


----------



## Mornats (Sep 29, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> The GUI has already a functionality for this. See attached picture.
> It allows +2 and -2 semitones. Thus you can have 3 layers
> Spitfire uses 2 semitones. Probably because the lib is sampled in whole tones and thus two adjacent notes use the same samples. So transposing 2 semitones instead of 1 might give an even better result.


Oh nice, I totally missed that. Thanks for pointing it out!


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## jaketanner (Sep 29, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Here for example is Violins 1 Long patch opened in Kontakt.
> Looks like whole tones have been sampled, because every sample spans two semitones (except the lowest sample).
> I am not an expert in that regard, nor can I check the whole library.
> This is the SStS standard variant. Cannot say anything about SStS Pro.
> ...


wow, how do you get to this screen in SF? Thought they have their GUI locked. I can do this with non NI libraries...


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## Manuel Stumpf (Sep 29, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> wow, how do you get to this screen in SF? Thought they have their GUI locked. I can do this with non NI libraries...


For the individual articulation patches Kontakt's spanner icon is not locked in the studio series.


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## jaketanner (Sep 29, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> For the individual articulation patches Kontakt's spanner icon is not locked in the studio series.


Cool. Gonna check it against SCS which is a much more expensive library and see if there’s a difference.


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## brenneisen (Sep 29, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> SF cut corners here.



what do you mean?


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## jaketanner (Sep 29, 2019)

brenneisen said:


> what do you mean?


if they sampled every whole note instead of chromatically, just to save time and money developing. For the price point and what you get, I can see this being the case...but I just wouldn't have expected it.


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## jaketanner (Sep 29, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Here for example is Violins 1 Long patch opened in Kontakt.
> Looks like whole tones have been sampled, because every sample spans two semitones (except the lowest sample).
> I am not an expert in that regard, nor can I check the whole library.
> This is the SStS standard variant. Cannot say anything about SStS Pro.
> ...


in SCS, it shows like whole notes also, but click on the top column, and the K. Range will show the notes. so will be like A#2-B2...


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## jaketanner (Sep 29, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Here for example is Violins 1 Long patch opened in Kontakt.
> Looks like whole tones have been sampled, because every sample spans two semitones (except the lowest sample).
> I am not an expert in that regard, nor can I check the whole library.
> This is the SStS standard variant. Cannot say anything about SStS Pro.
> ...


checking my other libraries like Cinestrings and 8Dio Anthology, Ni Symphony Strings etc, it seems common practice to sample stretch to whole notes...same pattern. I'd be curious to know if Berlin strings or Afflatus does this as well.


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## brenneisen (Sep 29, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> if they sampled every whole note instead of chromatically, just to save time and money developing.





jaketanner said:


> checking my other libraries like Cinestrings and 8Dio Anthology, Ni Symphony Strings etc, it seems common practice to sample stretch to whole notes...same pattern.



yeah, that's the usual; chromatic sampling is rarer (not for keyboard instruments, though)


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## Sears Poncho (Sep 29, 2019)

CSSS samples the low open C cello string and uses that sample for Db as well. Drives me nuts. Open Db. [/rolleyes]


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## Jonathan Moray (Sep 30, 2019)

@jaketanner this is the standard practice. OT samples whole tones as well. They even sample 1.5 tones at times if I remember correctly. They might stretch some of the samples to 1.5 tones because there was too much of a mistake/noise/imperfection in the adjacent recordings.

The only one I know, of the top of my head, that samples chromatically is Aaron Venture with the Infinite series.


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## Mornats (Sep 30, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> The GUI has already a functionality for this. See attached picture.
> It allows +2 and -2 semitones. Thus you can have 3 layers
> Spitfire uses 2 semitones. Probably because the lib is sampled in whole tones and thus two adjacent notes use the same samples. So transposing 2 semitones instead of 1 might give an even better result.



Having had a chance to dive into this, I also noticed the Layer x2 Round Robins which gives a slightly thicker sound to the strings. And now that I've tried the -2/+2 transpose options it's given me that larger sound I was looking for!

I also noticed that the manual has some info about how to use a string section in an orchestra that's been useful to me. It's worth reading the manual as I never thought it would contain this info.


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## jaketanner (Sep 30, 2019)

Mornats said:


> I also noticed the Layer x2 Round Robins


What does this do? Can you use both simultaneously? I need to try it.


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## Mornats (Sep 30, 2019)

It doubles the number of samples played by stealing them from the round robins.


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## jaketanner (Sep 30, 2019)

Mornats said:


> It doubles the number of samples played by stealing them from the round robins.


Wow. So each 4 player section can be like 8? Or is it 12?


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## Mornats (Sep 30, 2019)

Depends on if you use my maths from earlier or not  So my first violins have gone from 8 to 16 now.


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## jaketanner (Sep 30, 2019)

Mornats said:


> Depends on if you use my maths from earlier or not  So my first violins have gone from 8 to 16 now.


Ok got you. Gonna try it tonight. So I can effectively double the size of each divisi? No phasing issues?


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## Mornats (Sep 30, 2019)

I'm not sure if my ears are good enough to detect phasing but I'd guess it wouldn't be an issue as they use RR1/RR2, then RR3/RR4. In other words, they won't use the same RR on each note. I'm only on the core version so I'm using the main patches for this but it should work the same for the divisi in pro.

Relevant bit from the manual:






Black Friday/Christmas wishlist will see brass and woodwinds added to my collection for sure. Having a proper sectioned string orchestra is making me want to make more and more music and learn more about orchestration.


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## jaketanner (Sep 30, 2019)

Mornats said:


> I'm not sure if my ears are good enough to detect phasing but I'd guess it wouldn't be an issue as they use RR1/RR2, then RR3/RR4. In other words, they won't use the same RR on each note. I'm only on the core version so I'm using the main patches for this but it should work the same for the divisi in pro.
> 
> Relevant bit from the manual:
> 
> ...


cool, thanks. gonna check now


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## jaketanner (Sep 30, 2019)

Mornats said:


> I'm not sure if my ears are good enough to detect phasing but I'd guess it wouldn't be an issue as they use RR1/RR2, then RR3/RR4. In other words, they won't use the same RR on each note. I'm only on the core version so I'm using the main patches for this but it should work the same for the divisi in pro.
> 
> Relevant bit from the manual:
> 
> ...


BTW, the manual says that they compensate in volume, but in my case, the 4 violins sounds much louder with the x2 thing...guess they forgot.. LOL


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## Mornats (Oct 1, 2019)

Maybe they missed a patch. When I A/B'd the Violins 1 (8) economic short patch on spiccato with the x2 RR option on then off there was no difference in volume.


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## Mornats (Oct 1, 2019)

Ok, so as you know I'm really liking SStS but I don't have the woods and brass yet. I'm currently using Albion One for those and at the moment they're working well. The only real issue is that I'm finding it hard to get the right amount/type of reverb onto the studio strings to get them sounding like they're in the same place as Albion One.

Any tips for reverb settings? I use Valhalla Room and have NI's RC24 and RC48 to hand too. I know there isn't an IR for Air Studios and I'm not really trying to replicate the response of that room, just looking for some ballpark settings tips so it doesn't sound weird. My amateur ears aren't attuned to the subtleties of reverb reflections yet to manage the tweaking myself. I use reverb on a send bus so tips on what volume to set the sends at would help hugely too. (I use Reaper if that helps.)

And whilst I'm asking (because you know, in for a penny, in for a pound...) would you treat shorts different to longs when applying reverb? Would basses have the same treatment as violins? i'm finding that the move from ensemble Albion libraries to studio section libraries is throwing up a LOT of questions! The payoff is that I'm thinking much, much more about composition and what each of the instruments should be doing. It's really opened my eyes when making music.


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## jaketanner (Oct 1, 2019)

Mornats said:


> Ok, so as you know I'm really liking SStS but I don't have the woods and brass yet. I'm currently using Albion One for those and at the moment they're working well. The only real issue is that I'm finding it hard to get the right amount/type of reverb onto the studio strings to get them sounding like they're in the same place as Albion One.
> 
> Any tips for reverb settings? I use Valhalla Room and have NI's RC24 and RC48 to hand too. I know there isn't an IR for Air Studios and I'm not really trying to replicate the response of that room, just looking for some ballpark settings tips so it doesn't sound weird. My amateur ears aren't attuned to the subtleties of reverb reflections yet to manage the tweaking myself. I use reverb on a send bus so tips on what volume to set the sends at would help hugely too. (I use Reaper if that helps.)
> 
> And whilst I'm asking (because you know, in for a penny, in for a pound...) would you treat shorts different to longs when applying reverb? Would basses have the same treatment as violins? i'm finding that the move from ensemble Albion libraries to studio section libraries is throwing up a LOT of questions! The payoff is that I'm thinking much, much more about composition and what each of the instruments should be doing. It's really opened my eyes when making music.


You really can not replicate a space like AIR with algorithmic reverbs. You need something like Spaces II or Altiverb or Space by Avid.


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## Mornats (Oct 1, 2019)

Oooh they're not cheap! I'm not really looking to replicate the hall at Air, but rather just blend SStS in with Albion One (and V). Would I still need one of those three for that?


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## jaketanner (Oct 1, 2019)

Mornats said:


> Oooh they're not cheap! I'm not really looking to replicate the hall at Air, but rather just blend SStS in with Albion One (and V). Would I still need one of those three for that?


Might be easier to blend Albion using the close Mics rather than the other way around. What exactly do you feel in not blending? Strings are generally drier than ww and brass because if their seating. Also reverb needs to be EQd and worked a bit. Use the diffusion settings along with pre delays and decay times to get the space right. Are IR reverbs necessary to blend? Maybe not but unless you’re skilled as a mix engineer, it would be more difficult. Definitely use a warm hall setting in Valhalla if there is one. Tweak the mentioned parameters. Also, if you have the pro version of the SStS the. Using the Mics will get you pretty close. If not, the cost of upgrading to pro is probably cheaper than the IR verbs I mentioned.


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## ism (Oct 1, 2019)

Mornats said:


> Oooh they're not cheap! I'm not really looking to replicate the hall at Air, but rather just blend SStS in with Albion One (and V). Would I still need one of those three for that?



I use Valhalla too, and very inexpertly I must say.

But one trick I've been experimenting with is to run the Albion patches though a second instance of the same Valhalla reverb, as SStS. This helps to get them to sit in the same space, at the risk of washing out a bit of the quality of AIR ambience. 

Next, you need to turn off the early reflections on the second reverb, since the Albion patches don't need any more early reflections (you need the early reflections for StSS, but early reflection on an AIR sample only adds muddiness). Play around with the close-tree mic mix and I find I can get quite a nice mix.

In general, I find I need both close and tree to really get that amazing AIR sound, but when you're running through an additional long tail reverb, the trick is to find the sweet spot of the close and tree - generally bringing down the tree just enough, but not too much is the trick.


I guess the caveat is I like things very wet. The drying you go, the less this is going to work.


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## Mornats (Oct 1, 2019)

Thanks both, much appreciate your responses!

I've just read through 15 pages of the "on the bench..." thread about SStWW that talks a lot about the mics in the pro versions. That upgrade may be the way to go in time (it's amazing how easy it is for VI-control to convince me to part with my cash).

I'll upload a piece I'm working on when I get home tonight as this will show where I'm at with mixing SStS core with Albion One brass and woods. Essentially, the strings sound like they're more distant than the woods and brass. If I tweak the room size (can't remember the exact name of the parameters in Valhalla for that) then I end up with much dryer, not-in-a-large-room sounding strings. I'm not finding a sweet spot in the middle yet. To me, the strings don't sound like they're part of the same recording as the brass and woods.

I'll play around with your suggestions and will report back.

In time, once I've grabbed SStW and SStB this will be less of an issue


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## ism (Oct 1, 2019)

Mornats said:


> Thanks both, much appreciate your responses!
> 
> I've just read through 15 pages of the "on the bench..." thread about SStWW that talks a lot about the mics in the pro versions. That upgrade may be the way to go in time (it's amazing how easy it is for VI-control to convince me to part with my cash).
> 
> ...




My conclusion on StWW was also that , unlike SStS, you really need the close mics. But buying the pro version puts you into a price point not far from SSW. At which point it’s worth think about whether the whether the close mic in SSW is dry enough to give you whatever quality you want from SStWW. And I think that SSW is the better library for more lyrical lines.

I think I’ve decide that i’m not too interested in the non-pro version of SStWW. Although I would be if instead of the single tree mic, it came with a single mix mic.


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## jaketanner (Oct 1, 2019)

ism said:


> But buying the pro version puts you into a price point not far from SSW


I think it's pretty far, because from core to pro, you pay the difference, but buying SSW is $600...Unless you're thinking about buying them, rather than an upgrade.


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## Mornats (Oct 1, 2019)

I'm in the UK so for SStWW Pro it's £349 and for SSW it's £549 so it's a bit of a leap, especially for a hobbyist like me. I'm hoping to grab SStWW core for £101 in a sale and any upgrade to pro in a sale too. Maybe for my purposes, the core version will be fine. Oh and SStB will follow too but I've not read the essays on here about that yet 

It was only a few weeks ago I was thinking that I'm all good for sample libraries now. Ha. Then I started reading this thread at the same time I'd done a mock-up using Albion One and was disappointed with how my strings sounded...


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## ism (Oct 1, 2019)

Mornats said:


> I'm in the UK so for SStWW Pro it's £349 and for SSW it's £549 so it's a bit of a leap, especially for a hobbyist like me. I'm hoping to grab SStWW core for £101 in a sale and any upgrade to pro in a sale too. Maybe for my purposes, the core version will be fine. Oh and SStB will follow too but I've not read the essays on here about that yet
> 
> It was only a few weeks ago I was thinking that I'm all good for sample libraries now. Ha. Then I started reading this thread at the same time I'd done a mock-up using Albion One and was disappointed with how my strings sounded...



At 40% off thought the difference is 120quid - certainly not nothing, but, well I guess I just really love SSW.


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## Mornats (Oct 1, 2019)

Yeah, that's a much smaller difference. I've got until black Friday/Christmas to decide on getting brass and woods so lots of time to listen and decide.

I forgot to mention that I'm working on a piece that uses brass and wind from Orchestral Swarm alongside SStS and that works nicely


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## jaketanner (Oct 1, 2019)

Mornats said:


> I'm in the UK so for SStWW Pro it's £349 and for SSW it's £549 so it's a bit of a leap, especially for a hobbyist like me. I'm hoping to grab SStWW core for £101 in a sale and any upgrade to pro in a sale too. Maybe for my purposes, the core version will be fine. Oh and SStB will follow too but I've not read the essays on here about that yet
> 
> It was only a few weeks ago I was thinking that I'm all good for sample libraries now. Ha. Then I started reading this thread at the same time I'd done a mock-up using Albion One and was disappointed with how my strings sounded...


SStS is amazing. Make sure it’s the pro version. But sounds great. Not Symphonic as Albion One but much more playable and can also get pretty big.


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## Sarah Mancuso (Oct 1, 2019)

I've been using Seventh Heaven's "Sandors Hall" setting for blending SStO and other libraries with Air Lyndhurst ones. It seems to work alright enough, though there might be a better option out there.


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## robgb (Oct 1, 2019)

Mornats said:


> Ok, so as you know I'm really liking SStS but I don't have the woods and brass yet. I'm currently using Albion One for those and at the moment they're working well. The only real issue is that I'm finding it hard to get the right amount/type of reverb onto the studio strings to get them sounding like they're in the same place as Albion One.


There's an easy way to do it. Layer the strings with the Albion One string patch. Find the right blend and you'll have those AIR tails you're looking for.

Also, you could probably create an AIR IR with a little ingenuity. I don't know how AIR or Spitfire would feel about that, however.


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## ism (Oct 1, 2019)

robgb said:


> Also, you could probably create an AIR IR with a little ingenuity. I don't know how AIR or Spitfire would feel about that, however.



There was a thread on which someone talked about trying to do that a while ago. As I recall, the answer to how Spitfire would feel about it is: "not good".


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## robgb (Oct 1, 2019)

ism said:


> There was a thread on which someone talked about trying to do that a while ago. As I recall, the answer to how Spitfire would feel about it is: "not good".


Not surprising. And to be honest, I'm not sure it's necessary or would really be worth it. There are plenty of IRs already out there that sound similar enough to AIR that they can be used and adjusted to create the proper space. That said, this is one of the reasons I prefer dry libraries....


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## Mornats (Oct 1, 2019)

I think I'll steer clear of trying to mimic an Air IR. I'm really just trying to blend them and not replicate the hall itself. I'll try a warm hall reverb in Valhalla and then maybe try Rob's layering suggestion.

If I grab the rest of the studio orchestra libraries then I'll just need to find a nice reverb that I like and not worry about matching anything in particular.


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## Mornats (Oct 1, 2019)

Well then, this is a track that I started with Albion One* and then decided I wasn't happy with the strings sounding a bit synthy. This led me to buying Spitfire Studio Strings and after some playing around and a huge amount of help from you guys on here (many thanks!) I've got a sound that I really like.

Reverb/blending wise, there's a warm hall preset in Valhalla Room that I tweaked by turning the early reflections down. It's the best blend between the Studio Strings and the Albion One brass, woods and percussion that I've found.



* This actually started with a piano sketch inspired by Christian's videos as detailed here: https://vi-control.net/community/th...s-orchestral-programming-series-advice.85634/


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## DivingInSpace (Oct 2, 2019)

Mornats said:


> Well then, this is a track that I started with Albion One* and then decided I wasn't happy with the strings sounding a bit synthy. This led me to buying Spitfire Studio Strings and after some playing around and a huge amount of help from you guys on here (many thanks!) I've got a sound that I really like.
> 
> Reverb/blending wise, there's a warm hall preset in Valhalla Room that I tweaked by turning the early reflections down. It's the best blend between the Studio Strings and the Albion One brass, woods and percussion that I've found.
> 
> ...




If you want some feedback on it (i think the blend works pretty well btw) the sustains still need a lot of modulation and expression work, this goes for both strings, woodwinds and brass. I also find it a bit mundane, you got some nice ideas, but give away too much from the start, and doesn't develop it enough to keep it interesting in my opinion. Keep going though!


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## Mornats (Oct 2, 2019)

Thanks for the feedback and I totally agree on all points  the piece itself is underdeveloped but it's serving as a nice way to explore Studio Strings and the blend with Albion One. I think I'll develop it further as I like it and I'll certainly take your comments on board.

Floundering through a real piece is a good way to test out a library I think. It makes you think about shaping the library into what you need rather than composing to the library.


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## Mornats (Oct 2, 2019)

SStS seem to work really well with Heavyocity's Intimate Textures and Rhythmic Textures. I had a quick play earlier and they blend quite well. I'll see if I can do a quick mock up sometime soon.


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## Mornats (Oct 3, 2019)

Hope I'm not hijacking your thread too much Rob!

Quick mock up of SStS with a couple of patches from Novo packs - Intimate Textures and Rhythmic Textures. No real thought put into the composition and the modulation is awful but should give you an idea of how they sit in a mix.



Dry, no added reverb (reverb removed from the first Rhythmic Textures track).

Patch list:
Rhythmic Textures: RHY Humanoid
SStS Violins 1: Long Sul Tasto
SStS Violins 1: Long Super Sul Tasto
SStS Celli: Spiccato + Brushed Spiccato
SStS Violas: Long Con Sord
Intimate Textures: EVO Breathing
SStS Basses: Legato
SStS Celli: Legato

I think they work well together and the combo will definitely open up some nice musical avenues for me. Some of the pulsing patches (not used in this mock-up) sit nicely underneath the longs from SStS and add a lovely bit of movement to the strings.


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