# Some questions about composer desks



## hag01 (Aug 7, 2021)

In composer desk setups that I see in pictures, either the mouse and computer keyboard is behind the the MIDI keyboard, or the the MIDI keyboard is behind the computer keyboard and the mouse.
It doesn't look very convenient. Don't you have to bend your beck in order to get to what you put behind?

I also see that many of those who prefer the MIDI keyboard at the front, push it under the desk so only the keys is approachable - it can solve the problem mentioned above because in that way, the computer keyboard and the mouse are not very far, but then you miss all the other controllers - sliders, knobs, wheels ETC...So it doesn't seem fun either...

So, what do you think about that? Is there somethings I miss and it actually is convenient because some reasons that I can't see?


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## Henu (Aug 7, 2021)

I have a setup like this and it works wonders for my use. Can't really stand those drawers beneath the desk, because you always have to roll the chair half a meter backwards all the time when using it.


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## Jdiggity1 (Aug 7, 2021)

We all have our preferences.
Personally, I like to have my keyboard in front of the desk, but at the same height, with my computer keyboard/mouse resting on the back of the MIDI keyboard.
Because of this, I try to get MIDI keyboards that are not very deep at the back, and have a flat, clear surface so I can use it like an extension of the desk.










This particular desk is one I've built to fit around the A88 MkII, but prior to this I was just using a cheap ikea table with a studiologic keyboard.

My decisions are based around wanting to play my MIDI keyboard like a piano, and if I only had a 61-key (or smaller) I'd probably just sit it on top of a desk like Henu's picture above, and wouldn't worry too much about posture or piano action. It would just be an input device.


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## d.healey (Aug 7, 2021)

I prefer to have my MIDI keyboard below the desk top, I don't use any controllers except pitch, modulation, and a couple of pedals so having limited access to other keyboard controls is not an issue for me.

However for the past few years I've been using my MIDI keyboard on top of my desk behind my computer keyboard. At first I thought I would find this horrible to use but I've got quite used to it now.


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## muk (Aug 7, 2021)

The option I went with is the one that Nick Batzdorf advices. Have a desktop that slides back and forth over your midi keyboard. If you need to play on the keyboard - push the desktop back. If you need to type/use the mouse, slide the desktop to the front. As I am using my desk for composing/producing and standard office duties both, there was really no other solution.











If you are good at handiwork maybe you can build something like this yourself. Or, if you have money, you can contact Nick or try to have a carpenter build one for you.

The downside of this system is that the desktop is slightly higher than usual. At least if you use a full fledged digital piano like I do. That's not perfect, but I got used to it. It's the compromise that let me use my desk for office work and studio work both.


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## Kent (Aug 7, 2021)

Just keep this in mind, and depending on your own workflow needs, set up accordingly. The only right answer is what is best for your own ergonomics, and trying to base your desk on somebody else’s can be pretty futile.


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## BenG (Aug 7, 2021)

I thought about this a lot over the years and came to the conclusion that you are going to sacrifice ergonomics one way or another. Thus, one has to decide what do you use most and plan accordingly. (For me I spend %80 of the time midi editing, so mouse/keyboard came before the piano) 

Always wanted to build a hybrid midi piano with a built-in QWERTY keyboard and trackball.


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## Henu (Aug 7, 2021)

BenG said:


> For me I spend %80 of the time midi editing, so mouse/keyboard came before the piano


Same here, even though I'm primarily a keyboard player, most of my time at the computer is spent on mouse and keyboard instead of playing.


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## Living Fossil (Aug 7, 2021)

I have a desk with a extendible drawer that holds a (88key) keyboard. For me, it's the perfect solution. On the desk, among the computer keyboard, i have a controller and a stream deck.


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## coppi (Aug 9, 2021)

from an ergonomics point of view, a midi keyboard on top of a table would result in keys too high for being pressed at a standard piano lesson height, the computer keyboard instead, is designed to sit on top of a standard table. i think that a keyboard-in-the-drawer design is the best, with additional controllers on the top of the table together with the pc keyboard... i have no drawer on my table and would really need one


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## darcvision (Aug 9, 2021)

BenG said:


> Always wanted to build a hybrid midi piano with a built-in QWERTY keyboard


not sure if i get it but if you're using reaper you can costumize the virtual midi keyboard as much as you want. let's say i want to change it from "P" = E5 to B5, or "<" = C4 to "D5", or you can add one example like "Backspace" = G#5 and so on.

another example like this





AZERTY mode for the Virtual MIDI Keyboard - Cockos Incorporated Forums


AZERTY mode for the Virtual MIDI Keyboard REAPER Q&A, Tips, Tricks and Howto



forums.cockos.com





i also costumize the virtual midi keyboard in reaper, like adding more key in qwerty keyboard. in virtual midi keyboard like reaper, the midi key qwerty are from C4 until C6, so i extend the key from C4 to A6. to do that, i go to document reaper, and modify reaper-vkbmap.txt and set it which key do you want, like "O" = D6, "{"= F6 and so on.


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## Denkii (Aug 9, 2021)

Behold: The shitty cheap cornered IKEA hack Desk that I personally love.





Edit: The photo misses a Faderport 8 that is currently residing where the mug was. When I am in the DAW, I pull the keyboard out right up to where my keyboard (...keyboard keyboard...) is.


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## Kent (Aug 9, 2021)

darcvision said:


> not sure if i get it but if you're using reaper you can costumize the virtual midi keyboard as much as you want. let's say i want to change it from "P" = E5 to B5, or "<" = C4 to "D5", or you can add one example like "Backspace" = G#5 and so on.
> 
> another example like this
> 
> ...


I think he’s talking about putting a keyboard IN a keyboard, not mapping one kind to the other.


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## hag01 (Aug 9, 2021)

coppi said:


> from an ergonomics point of view, a midi keyboard on top of a table would result in keys too high for being pressed at a standard piano lesson height, the computer keyboard instead, is designed to sit on top of a standard table. i think that a keyboard-in-the-drawer design is the best, with additional controllers on the top of the table together with the pc keyboard... i have no drawer on my table and would really need one


That's what I always thought, how can you play piano\keyboards when the keyboard is lifted so high?
Also when the keyboard is on the table, in most setups it is also far away on front, also not good at all for playing on the instrument...


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## rgames (Aug 9, 2021)

hag01 said:


> how can you play piano\keyboards when the keyboard is lifted so high?


With hassle and a fair amount of pain.

The problem is that the piano keyboard and computer keyboard need to be in the same location because, ergonomically, that's the best place to manipulate things with your fingers. So either one is uncomfortable or you move one out of the way.

Therefore, the "below desk on slider" option is the best bet but it can lead to another problem: the crotch-squashing problem. If you're like 99% of people then you're going to be sitting uncomfrotably low at the desk to clear any normal MIDI keyboard. Or you're going to squash your crotch.

The solution to that problem is to slide the MIDI keyboard back far enough to clear your crotch and legs. But none of the commercially available desks do that for reasons I can't explain. Seems pretty obvious to me.

So I got a furniture maker to build me a desk that does exactly that. And I can slide the MIDI keyboard into place, play it, then slide it back and work with computer keyboard and mouse without ever noticing the MIDI keyboard. No crotch squashing.

rgames


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## Smikes77 (Aug 9, 2021)

rgames said:


> With hassle and a fair amount of pain.
> 
> The problem is that the piano keyboard and computer keyboard need to be in the same location because, ergonomically, that's the best place to manipulate things with your fingers. So either one is uncomfortable or you move one out of the way.
> 
> ...


Care to share a pic?


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## Smikes77 (Aug 9, 2021)

muk said:


> The option I went with is the one that Nick Batzdorf advices. Have a desktop that slides back and forth over your midi keyboard. If you need to play on the keyboard - push the desktop back. If you need to type/use the mouse, slide the desktop to the front. As I am using my desk for composing/producing and standard office duties both, there was really no other solution.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I`m liking this idea. I'm going to find someone that can build one to my spec.


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## Gingerbread (Aug 9, 2021)

rgames said:


> With hassle and a fair amount of pain.
> 
> The problem is that the piano keyboard and computer keyboard need to be in the same location because, ergonomically, that's the best place to manipulate things with your fingers. So either one is uncomfortable or you move one out of the way.
> 
> ...


I'd love to see a pic. And if willing, what the ballpark cost of having a furniture maker create it was.


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## Smikes77 (Aug 9, 2021)

muk said:


> The option I went with is the one that Nick Batzdorf advices. Have a desktop that slides back and forth over your midi keyboard. If you need to play on the keyboard - push the desktop back. If you need to type/use the mouse, slide the desktop to the front. As I am using my desk for composing/producing and standard office duties both, there was really no other solution.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A question or 3 if I may...

What is the height to where the keyboard tray is?
What is the height of the desk where the mouse/keyboard sit?
What is the depth?


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## muk (Aug 9, 2021)

Smikes77 said:


> A question or 3 if I may...
> 
> What is the height to where the keyboard tray is?
> What is the height of the desk where the mouse/keyboard sit?
> What is the depth?



The keyboard tray is at 62 cm. The wood is 2 cm, so the underside is at 60 cm.

The tabletop is at 79 cm, and the whole desk is 81.5cm deep. 

The white keys of my digital piano are at 71cm, which is just slightly lower than with my upright piano (74cm). I hope that helps. If you have more questions just let me know.


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## Smikes77 (Aug 9, 2021)

muk said:


> The keyboard tray is at 62 cm. The wood is 2 cm, so the underside is at 60 cm.
> 
> The tabletop is at 79 cm, and the whole desk is 81.5cm deep.
> 
> The white keys of my digital piano are at 71cm, which is just slightly lower than with my upright piano (74cm). I hope that helps. If you have more questions just let me know.


Thank you very much!


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## rgames (Aug 9, 2021)

Smikes77 said:


> Care to share a pic?


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## Smikes77 (Aug 9, 2021)

rgames said:


>


Another excellent idea...making room for the legs.


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## rgames (Aug 9, 2021)

Smikes77 said:


> Another excellent idea...making room for the legs.


There are a couple commercially available desks that do that. But recessing the tray back further is what helps the most.

Also, cost for the desk was $1800 delivered. It's pretty large - 75" x 27" - and it has two rack units on top made with the same wood and finish. Also, you can't see it but there's a cable tray hidden on the underside in the back so you don't see any cables other than those for the pedals. I had another quote for $1500.

rgames


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## rgames (Aug 9, 2021)

While we're on the topic - here's a pic of the opposite side of the room. My main desk shown in the previous pic is really a production area - I don't play that keyboard very often.

The other side of my studio is set up for playing/jamming. That one puts the MIDI keyboard/synth front and center and the computer keyboard/mouse are on a shelf behind it. So that setup is uncomfortable for long periods of computer keyboard/mouse use but that's not what it's for. It's a big workbench where I can hook stuff up and try out ideas. Hard to see in the pic but the benchtop overhangs the drawers so you can scoot up to it like a desk. The drawers and lower shelves are storage for other synths and gear.

One trick that helped a bunch on the jamming setup is the gap between the floor and the center drawers. That lets you hide pedal cables under there and keeps the setup looking tidy.

There's a video on my YouTube channel that goes over the design of this room and the furniture.

rgames


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## tc9000 (Aug 9, 2021)

I have a Roland FP10, for which I paid for the (three peices of MDF!) stand. I then built a desk around it by placing a table top on some spare drawer units I had. I've been able to adjust the the table top height to just clear the FP10 by a few mm. All the usual stuff goes on the table top - keyboard, mouse, etc. Monitor is mounted on a VESA arm. When I want to use the FP10, I reach under and slide it (in its stand) out from under the table. When I have to do boring work stuff, the FP10 gets pushed back under. 

Its not the best solution as I still have to reach over the FP10 to get to the keyboard and mouse, which feels a bit strained. I have a nanocontrol for MIDI. Its not so bad as the FP10 and nanocontrol feel pretty comfy to use, the mouse is OK, its just the keyboard that's not so great...


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## DocMidi657 (Aug 9, 2021)

I found to be really comfortable you have to get the height of the keys of your controller "really right for your body" when you are sitting in an office chair with your feet on the floor and then buy the wood and build one for YOUR Body ... your back and your arm reach. I found and I may add this was like 15 years ago I could not find any commercial desks where that was correct for me. They all put the keyboard too high or they used a sliding desk that never stayed in place and felt solid when playing. I am about 5'9 and my buddy and I built this for a few hundred bucks getting the wood at Lowes. We knew we had to figure out how my legs would fit under the controller and still get the controller low enough so the controller and computer keyboard were not too high. The solution was the desk pictured and we thought well heck let's use the sides to make racks that hold up the keyboard and that clears the perfect space for my legs. I never found setting computer keyboards and peripherals on top of the controller work well so we went with a desk on top for all that stuff and the monitors. Lastly If you put wheels on the bottom of the desk (which I highly recommend) make sure you account for that in your measurements


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## chimuelo (Aug 9, 2021)

I never sit so my rehearsal rig and live performance rig (at least for current gigs) are identical. 

QWERTY & Mouse are perfectly set up for me.

I never touch them though except for boot up, or tweaking my sounds after listening back to my performances.

Standing is a way of life for me.


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## BenG (Aug 10, 2021)

kmaster said:


> I think he’s talking about putting a keyboard IN a keyboard, not mapping one kind to the other.


Yes, exactly. I always wanted a built-in QWERTY in-layed right above the piano or just below the piano.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 10, 2021)

coppi said:


> from an ergonomics point of view, a midi keyboard on top of a table would result in keys too high for being pressed at a standard piano lesson height, the computer keyboard instead, is designed to sit on top of a standard table. i think that a keyboard-in-the-drawer design is the best, with additional controllers on the top of the table together with the pc keyboard... i have no drawer on my table and would really need one


I'm not a fan of computer keyboard drawers, because they put the keyboard too low. That strains your forearms and shoulders, and probably neck.

My theory is that not having your forearms supported when typing leads to the carpal tunnel issues a lot of people complain about.

If you raise your chair arms a little, your arms are supported and typing on a slightly higher desktop than usual becomes totally comfortable (at least for me and the 35 or so people who have one of my desks, going back to before I started making them).


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 10, 2021)

BenG said:


> Yes, exactly. I always wanted a built-in QWERTY in-layed right above the piano or just below the piano.


Actually, if you look at muk's desk, you'll see that the computer keyboard is in that position, only about 1" higher than if it were inlaid.


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## Arbee (Aug 10, 2021)

This is mine, similar concept with a pull-out containing the smaller midi keyboard and computer keyboard next to it. If I'm editing, mixing etc I pull it all the way out. I plan to add a wide music stand insert to the front edge of the pull-out (for when it's pushed back and effectively a piano).


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## dcoscina (Aug 10, 2021)

I suppose it depends on your compositional style. Do you enter notes in step time and then spend most of your time at the computer keyboard editing and moving things around or do you play in lines and redo? I used to be the latter but find I’m the former now so the computer keyboard and mouse are more important to be up front and in a comfy position with my Kurzweil behind it.


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## tonaliszt (Aug 10, 2021)

I really liked Danny Elfman's setup from *this video*. 

I couldn't figure out what the plastic/glass mouse stand was, but I'm using something similar I DIY'd which serves the same purpose. It's the closest thing I've gotten to having mouse/keyboard/piano at the same height. The key is that it has to slide up and down the keyboard so you can play the higher notes!


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## boinzy (Aug 11, 2021)

tonaliszt said:


> I really liked Danny Elfman's setup from *this video*.
> 
> I couldn't figure out what the plastic/glass mouse stand was, but I'm using something similar I DIY'd which serves the same purpose. It's the closest thing I've gotten to having mouse/keyboard/piano at the same height. The key is that it has to slide up and down the keyboard so you can play the higher notes!


Unfortunately, your video link didn't take.


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## BenG (Aug 11, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Actually, if you look at muk's desk, you'll see that the computer keyboard is in that position, only about 1" higher than if it were inlaid.


Yes, definitely similar but was hoping for something a bit more elegant. That’s definitely the idea though I went the opposite way and put the keyboard in front of the piano for now.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 11, 2021)

BenG said:


> Yes, definitely similar but was hoping for something a bit more elegant. That’s definitely the idea though I went the opposite way and put the keyboard in front of the piano for now.



It's pretty elegant (here shown with the desktop slid forward to expose the MIDI keyboard for playing):


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## chimuelo (Aug 11, 2021)

Reminds me of a Hammond Cabinet.


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## BenG (Aug 11, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> It's pretty elegant (here shown with the desktop slid forward to expose the MIDI keyboard for playing):


Ah, that looks great and much different from the other photo! Thank you for sharing and it’s back to the drawing board for me haha


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## tonaliszt (Aug 11, 2021)

boinzy said:


> Unfortunately, your video link didn't take.


Hmm. It's the VSL studio chat with Danny Elfman.


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## Crowe (Aug 12, 2021)

Yup, seeing monitors tucked away into corners or up against walls makes me want to pull my hair out.


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## coppi (Aug 12, 2021)

he


tonaliszt said:


> Hmm. It's the VSL studio chat with Danny Elfman.


helping the lazy:


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## TomislavEP (Aug 12, 2021)

For the time being, I'm using a custom made-desk that has three tiers and separate monitor stands. I used to keep the speakers on the highest tier, along with my 27-inch screen and audio interface, but the stands gave me much better separation and flexibility.

I'm using two keyboard controllers for composing: 88-keys fully-weighted one for piano work and 61-keys one with sliders, knobs, pads, etc. for everything else. The first one resides on a dedicated stand to my right, together with a keyboard bench. I keep the second one on top of the desk. There is also a drawer beneath for a computer keyboard and mouse. I also have an Ikea Jarvfjallet chair which I find perfect for studio work.

However, more and more I'm thinking that this is still not the most ergonomic setup and that the desk which has a drawer for the keyboard controller is a better option. This one seems like a winner for me:









Millenium SD-120 B StudioDesk


Recording Workstation Compact work table for small studios for recording and composition, Worktop, upper shelf and pull-out keyboard drawer made of plastic-coated MDF board, Base made of powder-coated metal (colour: Black), Integrated 19" rack with...




www.thomann.de


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## coppi (Aug 12, 2021)

TomislavEP said:


> This one seems like a winner for me:


that would not fit a standard 88 keys keyboard in the drawer, you need a larger one...


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## Kent (Aug 12, 2021)

TomislavEP said:


> For the time being, I'm using a custom made-desk that has three tiers and separate monitor stands. I used to keep the speakers on the highest tier, along with my 27-inch screen and audio interface, but the stands gave me much better separation and flexibility.
> 
> I'm using two keyboard controllers for composing: 88-keys fully-weighted one for piano work and 61-keys one with sliders, knobs, pads, etc. for everything else. The first one resides on a dedicated stand to my right, together with a keyboard bench. I keep the second one on top of the desk. There is also a drawer beneath for a computer keyboard and mouse. I also have an Ikea Jarvfjallet chair which I find perfect for studio work.
> 
> ...


The thing to consider with these rack-desks is that, ergonomically, the top of your video monitor needs to be at or slightly below your line of sight, and acoustically your audio monitors need to be at ear level and also not behind anything that might cause an acoustic shadow. Getting such a setup that fulfills all three functions can be incredibly difficult with a tiered desk.


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## GNP (Aug 12, 2021)

You know that it's either the keyboard and mouse on top and the synth below, or vice versa. Either way you'll have to work with it. Make some music.


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## hag01 (Aug 12, 2021)

So I’m watching and learning, and if I’m not mistaken, MIDI keyboards with many controllers, like Atruria Keylab for example, is worthless.
We want only the keys of our keyboard uncovered, with wheels on the side(or maybe the wheels could be behind the keys but very close to them, like in the Kawai MP11SE), so we could reach easily to the computer keyboard and the mouse above on the desk. Then we can also put a control surface with sliders, knobs and buttons on the desktop.

So how those MIDI controllers with all those sliders, knobs and buttons still have a market? or am I missing something?

Another question is, when only the keys of the keyboard is uncovered, isn’t it’s a bit inconvenient to reach to its power button(that in many cases is on the back of the instrument)?
And sometimes you still need to use the buttons of the keyboard for common usage, for example - to change velocity curve(first thing jumps into my mind), but all the buttons, the screen of the keyboard and everything is covered below the desk. How do you come over that?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 12, 2021)

Crowe said:


> Yup, seeing monitors tucked away into corners or up against walls makes me want to pull my hair out.


Unfortunately there's no alternative for some people. But some speakers are okay being against a wall, especially ones that have no ports or forward-facing ones, or speakers like the Genelecs, Mackies, etc. that have internal EQ adjustments to compensate.

Obviously that's still not ideal, but... let's put it this way: save your hair.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 12, 2021)

hag01 said:


> So I’m watching and learning, and if I’m not mistaken, MIDI keyboards with many controllers, like Atruria Keylab for example, is worthless.
> We want only the keys of our keyboard uncovered, with wheels on the side(or maybe the wheels could be behind the keys but very close to them, like in the Kawai MP11SE), so we could reach easily to the computer keyboard and the mouse above on the desk. Then we can also put a control surface with sliders, knobs and buttons on the desktop.



Sorry to be so obnoxious, but the picture of my desk is misleading.

You certainly can uncover the entire MIDI keyboard. I make them so the desktop slides far enough forward.


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## Smikes77 (Aug 12, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Sorry to be so obnoxious, but the picture of my desk is misleading.
> 
> You certainly can uncover the entire MIDI keyboard. I make them so the desktop slides far enough forward.


What do you do about cable management Nick?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 12, 2021)

Smikes77 said:


> What do you do about cable management Nick?


The MIDI keyboard shelf only goes back about 14", i.e. the back is open. So you just run them below the desk.

I screwed in a hook underneath my desk, and the cables are attached with a velcro strap.

Having said that, my other cables are a total clustershag and I need to remove ones that go nowhere.  But it's not an issue with the desk.


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## PaulieDC (Aug 12, 2021)

hag01 said:


> Another question is, when only the keys of the keyboard is uncovered, isn’t it’s a bit inconvenient to reach to its power button(that in many cases is on the back of the instrument)?
> And sometimes you still need to use the buttons of the keyboard for common usage, for example - to change velocity curve(first thing jumps into my mind), but all the buttons, the screen of the keyboard and everything is covered below the desk. How do you come over that?


I invested in the StudioLogic SL88 Grand last October and its plain top is superb for "holding things". I'm just finishing tweaking my setup but I'll post a pic soon. But basically I have an old IKEA desk as the working surface to hold the MixFace controller, ARC USB to control volume and monitoring and a StreamDeck for transport and zooming and other stuff for Cubase (work in progress). That desk sits at 29½" high. The SL88 is on a Z-Stand right in front of the IKEA desk, and the SL88 is slid under the IKEA desk about 3", making the 88s sit close to the main desk. SO, that allows me to plant the Apple Extended Magic Keyboard right on the SL88 to the left of the single rotary knob it has, which I don't use. The Magic keyboard fits between the third joystick and the knob... it is so light and thin, it's perfect, and I do use a PC but I always use Mac keyboards (tweak the registry to get the CTRL/ALT/WIN keys working right). The Magic Keyboard _does_ cover the SL88 LCD display which is great because it's too bright anyway. I used the software to create the SL88 setup I need and I use the MixFace for all CC control, so the only thing on the SL88 I touch are the 88 keys. It works well and I don't have to over reach. I'll get a pic posted soon to give you an idea. But I agree with you, I don't want any integrated controls on the controller, I want to plant on there the things I want. As far as your question about reaching the power switch, the SL88 is buss powered but there are times when I start up Cubase and have to restart the SL88 to connect. Well, on my Z stand I had to raise it up a half notch height-wise plus I wanted a solid board under the keyboard, not just the two pressure points of the Z stand, so the perfect solution was this 12x48 shelf from Home Depot, under the SL88! It puts the tops of the white keys right at 27" which is the bottom of my comfort range, and works well with my desk chair at its lowest setting. SO, to reach the power switch on the back of the SL88, I grab the shelf under the left side, slide it out diagonally, hit the switch off and on, and slide it back. I have to lift and slide because of the rubber surface on the stand, but sliding one side out and back in is easy, and then it stays PUT when I play. So needing the extra ½" height provided a solution for several things. It took me a year to rethink and tweak the setup (and I looked at a LOT of members' photos, lol!), but I'm happy now. When I look at how far Paul Thomson has to reach for his keyboard and mouse when doing Spitfire walk-throughs, it amazes me but we all have it the way we like it, you just have to think it out, which is exactly what you've been doing! 👍


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 12, 2021)

I went this route (not my desk, but mine will be similar except motorized). MIDI keyboard built in, moveable cover if I wanted to bring my computer keyboard / mouse closer to me for non-music work.


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## TomislavEP (Aug 13, 2021)

coppi said:


> that would not fit a standard 88 keys keyboard in the drawer, you need a larger one...


Yes, I know. Fortunately, I would only need to fit a 61-keys one. I prefer to keep my 88-keys to the side and I'm always switching to a piano bench when composing for piano or simply for playing and practice.



kmaster said:


> The thing to consider with these rack-desks is that, ergonomically, the top of your video monitor needs to be at or slightly below your line of sight, and acoustically your audio monitors need to be at ear level and also not behind anything that might cause an acoustic shadow. Getting such a setup that fulfills all three functions can be incredibly difficult with a tiered desk.


You're right. It's far from "ideal", but the monitor stands helped me with that to some degree. Also, my Dell screen has a very elegant system for elevation.



GNP said:


> You know that it's either the keyboard and mouse on top and the synth below, or vice versa.


That's the truth. Personally, I'm in a perpetual dilemma about this one. With my current desk, the 61-keys controller is above the keyboard and mouse. While this can put some strain on my arms (I'm trying to compensate as much as possible with the chair height), I don't use this particular controller for intensive piano work, so it's "tolerable". On the other hand, I'm wondering how would it be to do a long editing session with computer peripherals sitting on the top instead. I haven't actually tried this setup, but I have a feeling it's a bit more ergonomic.


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 13, 2021)

It's a never ending challenge. The OP is right - some of the commercial studio desks are ergonomic nightmares, especially the placement of the monitor screens high up in the heavens.

I've tried to split the difference. It's the standard 88 under the desk here, albeit an 88 Keystation for maximum room. I often play with the 'bed pulled out maybe 1/2 or 2/3 to get a better reach to the desktop. 

Also, I keep a mini keys thing (the model varies as per my whim) on the desk for left handed work when programming, browsing etc. For this the 88 key goes under the desk, further back as per @rgames 's crotch squash buster(™) technique.


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## Leandro Z (Sep 11, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I invested in the StudioLogic SL88 Grand last October and its plain top is superb for "holding things". I'm just finishing tweaking my setup but I'll post a pic soon. But basically I have an old IKEA desk as the working surface to hold the MixFace controller, ARC USB to control volume and monitoring and a StreamDeck for transport and zooming and other stuff for Cubase (work in progress). That desk sits at 29½" high. The SL88 is on a Z-Stand right in front of the IKEA desk, and the SL88 is slid under the IKEA desk about 3", making the 88s sit close to the main desk. SO, that allows me to plant the Apple Extended Magic Keyboard right on the SL88 to the left of the single rotary knob it has, which I don't use. The Magic keyboard fits between the third joystick and the knob... it is so light and thin, it's perfect, and I do use a PC but I always use Mac keyboards (tweak the registry to get the CTRL/ALT/WIN keys working right). The Magic Keyboard _does_ cover the SL88 LCD display which is great because it's too bright anyway. I used the software to create the SL88 setup I need and I use the MixFace for all CC control, so the only thing on the SL88 I touch are the 88 keys. It works well and I don't have to over reach. I'll get a pic posted soon to give you an idea. But I agree with you, I don't want any integrated controls on the controller, I want to plant on there the things I want. As far as your question about reaching the power switch, the SL88 is buss powered but there are times when I start up Cubase and have to restart the SL88 to connect. Well, on my Z stand I had to raise it up a half notch height-wise plus I wanted a solid board under the keyboard, not just the two pressure points of the Z stand, so the perfect solution was this 12x48 shelf from Home Depot, under the SL88! It puts the tops of the white keys right at 27" which is the bottom of my comfort range, and works well with my desk chair at its lowest setting. SO, to reach the power switch on the back of the SL88, I grab the shelf under the left side, slide it out diagonally, hit the switch off and on, and slide it back. I have to lift and slide because of the rubber surface on the stand, but sliding one side out and back in is easy, and then it stays PUT when I play. So needing the extra ½" height provided a solution for several things. It took me a year to rethink and tweak the setup (and I looked at a LOT of members' photos, lol!), but I'm happy now. When I look at how far Paul Thomson has to reach for his keyboard and mouse when doing Spitfire walk-throughs, it amazes me but we all have it the way we like it, you just have to think it out, which is exactly what you've been doing! 👍


Hey! Very interested to see your setup since I have the same keyboard! Thanks!


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## PaulieDC (Sep 12, 2021)

Leandro Z said:


> Hey! Very interested to see your setup since I have the same keyboard! Thanks!


I finally got the 3-fader controller I wanted for Dynamics, etc, so I can finally get the completed desk shot posted this week. I’ll let you know!


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## Trevor Meier (Sep 16, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I finally got the 3-fader controller I wanted for Dynamics, etc, so I can finally get the completed desk shot posted this week. I’ll let you know!


Also curious to see!


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## PaulieDC (Sep 16, 2021)

Trevor Meier said:


> Also curious to see!


LOL! Finishing my Berklee Mixing program THIS Week, then I'll dust the place, make it all look happy and take the shot.


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## Leandro Z (Oct 6, 2021)

Still curious to see your setup @PaulieDC ! Haha, hope we are not bothering  Thanks!


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## PaulieDC (Oct 6, 2021)

Leandro Z said:


> Still curious to see your setup @PaulieDC ! Haha, hope we are not bothering  Thanks!


ACK! I was waiting to install one final popup power center but that's not going to matter for the photo. OK, I'll do the shot tonight, I promise!


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## Be_Sharp (Oct 6, 2021)

I personally don’t find I need a workstation desk. I used to have one and I don’t miss it. With my current setup I added a cheap and simple bracket to the bottom of my midi piano which allows me to sit my mac keyboard just in front of the piano. Sometimes the mac keyboard sits on the bracket, sometimes on my lap. There is enough room on top of my midi piano to sit random items such as plectrums, phone, leap motion controller, keys etc. so no problem there. My wireless mouse sits on a cheap height adjustable side table which can slide away under the piano. I’m absolutely loving this set up.


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## PaulieDC (Oct 7, 2021)

Leandro Z said:


> Hey! Very interested to see your setup since I have the same keyboard! Thanks!


OK, finally got the shots done! I'll post a couple including how the SL88 grand sits on my stand.

Here's the desk overall... it's a boomerang-shaped IKEA desk from 10 years ago or more. I actually like the curve... I don't use the joysticks so the fader controller and FaderPort sit at a nice distance:





Side shot:





Here's the actual stand, https://www.amazon.com/Knox-Style-Heavy-Adjustable-Keyboard/dp/B016N052M6 (this Z-Stand), and on the stand I have a 48"x12" simple Rubbermaid shelf from Home Depot so the SL88 has a solid surface to sit on. It's not bolted on the stand, the weight keeps it in place rock solid. BUT, I can lift the left end of the shelf and easily swing out the keyboard on the shelf to turn the unit on and off, and put the canvas cover on the keyboard. The SL88 is buss powered as you know but if I leave it on, Cubase doesn't see it all the time. If I turn it on after launching Cubase, wires right up every time. Hope this shot helps:




Under there is my tower I built, and the Neumann sub. If this helps, here are the measurements:

Top of Z-Stand: 22.5" from the floor
Shelf is slightly over .5"
Top of white keys: 27.25"
Top of IKEA desk: 29.5"

There you go.


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## PaulieDC (Oct 7, 2021)

Be_Sharp said:


> I personally don’t find I need a workstation desk. I used to have one and I don’t miss it. With my current setup I added a cheap and simple bracket to the bottom of my midi piano which allows me to sit my mac keyboard just in front of the piano. Sometimes the mac keyboard sits on the bracket, sometimes on my lap. There is enough room on top of my midi piano to sit random items such as plectrums, phone, leap motion controller, keys etc. so no problem there. My wireless mouse sits on a cheap height adjustable side table which can slide away under the piano. I’m absolutely loving this set up.


An entire room, nice! Great ambience. I get one corner of our office, lol... but I'll take it!


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## Henning (Oct 7, 2021)

Got this one custom made by a guy makes desks for radio stations. The top is set into rails and can be pushed away from you so you get to play on the keyboard underneath.


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## cedricm (Oct 7, 2021)

Jdiggity1 said:


> We all have our preferences.
> Personally, I like to have my keyboard in front of the desk, but at the same height, with my computer keyboard/mouse resting on the back of the MIDI keyboard.
> Because of this, I try to get MIDI keyboards that are not very deep at the back, and have a flat, clear surface so I can use it like an extension of the desk.
> 
> ...


Do you like the Roland A88 MkII, which is quite pricey if memory serves? Was it a good buy?


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## b_elliott (Oct 7, 2021)

hag01 said:


> In composer desk setups that I see in pictures, either the mouse and computer keyboard is behind the the MIDI keyboard, or the the MIDI keyboard is behind the computer keyboard and the mouse.
> It doesn't look very convenient. Don't you have to bend your beck in order to get to what you put behind?


I am late to this-here party, but Glen Gould blew out of the water any concept of a right/wrong/proper/ergonomic approach to pianos (rickety chair included):


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## MichaelBogaMusic (Oct 7, 2021)

To me the perfect setup is having the keyboard and mouse on the desk and my midi controller underneath. I have a KK s88 and I setup the drawer to just come out enough for the keys to be accessible. I don't use any of the knobs etc. 
Drawer at 60cm and desk at 78cm, made myself a small footrest and i'm golden.


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## Jdiggity1 (Oct 7, 2021)

cedricm said:


> Do you like the Roland A88 MkII, which is quite pricey if memory serves? Was it a good buy?


Yes, yes. Yes.


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## Rossy (Oct 7, 2021)

Henning said:


> Got this one custom made by a guy makes desks for radio stations. The top is set into rails and can be pushed away from you so you get to play on the keyboard underneath.


That's a nice monitor


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## digitallysane (Oct 7, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> The SL88 is buss powered as you know but if I leave it on, Cubase doesn't see it all the time. If I turn it on after launching Cubase, wires right up every time.


Interesting. My SL73 came with a power unit and I never have any issues with it being seen by Cubase.


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## Paulogic (Oct 7, 2021)

But I had the same problem with my KK61MK2 connected to a power unit.
Seems a Cubase problem. Not having this with my Privia.


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## eakwarren (Oct 7, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Here's the actual stand, https://www.amazon.com/Knox-Style-Heavy-Adjustable-Keyboard/dp/B016N052M6 (this Z-Stand), and on the stand I have a 48"x12" simple Rubbermaid shelf from Home Depot so the SL88 has a solid surface to sit on. It's not bolted on the stand, the weight keeps it in place rock solid. BUT, I can lift the left end of the shelf and easily swing out the keyboard on the shelf to turn the unit on and off, and put the canvas cover on the keyboard.


I got a similar https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079YWMH91 (Z stand with locking wheels) for my SL88 Grand. The center support bar hit my shins so I drilled holes in the bottom back side pieces and mounted it there. Still solid, roomier, and rolls great!


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## PaulieDC (Oct 7, 2021)

eakwarren said:


> I got a similar https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079YWMH91 (Z stand with locking wheels) for my SL88 Grand. The center support bar hit my shins so I drilled holes in the bottom back side pieces and mounted it there. Still solid, roomier, and rolls great!


Nice! OK, I might have to do that because I need to crawl under the desk once in a while and there's no way I'll fit with that cross bar. Good idea!


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## PaulieDC (Oct 7, 2021)

digitallysane said:


> Interesting. My SL73 came with a power unit and I never have any issues with it being seen by Cubase.


You know, it only happened a couple of times where I'd start up Cubase the next day and it didn't see the SL88 until I did a power cycle on the controller, so I just committed to turning it on when I needed it. However, I was having other Cubase connection grumps and that's been sorted since then, so I'll give it another go, I'm curious. I'd rather not use the wall wart so if it works, great. If not, slide-and-press continues.  I do have the SL88 directly connected to my mobo so it's not a hub thing.


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## eakwarren (Oct 7, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> OK, I might have to do that


I recommend using a drill press to align the holes. Also oil the metal-rated drill bit for each hole and go sloooooooow. A small file or Dremel will take care of any burs.


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