# New Mac Pro or 2010 Mac Pro?



## SyMTiK (Jan 10, 2015)

So I've finally come to the realization that I seriously am in need of a new computer. My 2010 iMac with a dual core i3 and 4gb of ram is no longer cutting it. I'm finding it very difficult to create the music I want as I am seriously limited by the amount of tracks I can create. My iMac crashes after only 6-8 instances of kontakt, without any other plugins and using the lowest amount of ram possible with albion. this is obviously a huge headache, especially when i want to write pieces using 30+ tracks. So I am now looking towards a Mac Pro. Don't try and tell me "but a PC is cheaper" no, I am using strictly Logic Pro as that is the DAW of my preference and what I have been using for the past 3 years. 

I am stuck between getting one of the brand new Mac Pro's, or the last generation. With the new generation, I can afford the 6 core variant with 512gb of flash storage and i will buy 32gb of 2x16 ram aftermarket to allow for up to 64gb of ram, plus aftermarket ram is much much cheaper. if i were to get the last generation, however, I can afford a custom 3.46ghz 12 core with 48 gb of ram, and 1 tb of solid state storage. However, from what i hear, last generation uses a sata 2 chip and 1333 mhz ddr2 ram. looking at performance specs, the memory on the new mac pro is much faster than last years, and i feel as though the newest generation will last me just that much longer because it has the most up to date hardware specs. last gen mac pros only have usb2, while the new ones have usb3 and thunderbolt 2. 

would it be worth getting the new one with the smaller processor and faster storage, or last gen with the big ass processor but slower storage? I dont know how often 12 cores would actually come in handy, from what i hear a lot of people are saying ram and storage are more important. i also feel as though the new mac pro is a little more convenient size wise since it will take up less room, although that is pretty irrelevant.


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## olajideparis (Jan 10, 2015)

From my research the six core is the best bang for the buck among the newest generation of mac pros, but keep in mind the "real costs" of ownership which include; thunderbolt enclosures and external drives which a friend pointed out that to get the full benefit of thunderbolt you would need to be using SSD drives which is an additional consideration. On the other hand you can pick yourself up a pretty loaded 2012 12 core mac pro with multiple drives, SSD and 32GB of ram or so for around the same price, but actually less all things considered. Good luck!


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## SyMTiK (Jan 10, 2015)

thanks! I dont have a huge problem with having to get Thunderbolt SSD's, i think the 512 gb of space will last me a decent amount of time, since right now i have about 320 gb of virtual instruments and sample libraries, which leaves about 200 gb of additional space. i also have some usb 3 drives lying around that i can put backups of things on or files i dont immediately need. I mean a loaded 12 core mac pro is tempting, but I feel as though 12 cores is more of a luxury than it actually is necessary, I think other things like memory speed and hard drive speed are more important. the 6 core looks like it would hold up just fine, however the 12 core is still tempting  I just want whatever will give me the longest run time, the 2010 is already 4-5 years past its time, and when spending that type of money on a computer I want whatever is going to last me the longest. I dont want to buy a $4000 computer that will end up lasting me only another 2 years. i want something that will at least last me through college and then some.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Jan 10, 2015)

I went with the new 6 core MP recently and am extremely happy. It's taken everything I have thrown at it and laughed. 

The advantages of Thunderbolt for my Apollo, external hdmi video out, and a very silent running serious machine made it worth it to me. 

You can start with 16-32G ram, use the stock Samsung SSD for bootup, utilize older displays, and start with one external SSD for samples to help keep the budget down initially.


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## SyMTiK (Jan 10, 2015)

thanks for the input! glad to see you are happy with it, im going to get it with the stock 12 gb of ram and order the crucial 2x16 32gb ram kit, because its only $350 and allows me to add on later and upgrade to 64gb. I think ive made my decision  ill probably end up getting it once school gets out, my parents deal was they would only pay the difference if i get straight A's all school year, so far im holding up that promise :D


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## Dryden.Chambers (Jan 10, 2015)

I went with Crucial ram as well. Top notch. I would also consider the Black Magic Multidock if you can squeeze it in for your external SSD's. You will laugh the first time you boot up and launch Logic X, its that quick.



SyMTiK @ Sat Jan 10 said:


> thanks for the input! glad to see you are happy with it, im going to get it with the stock 12 gb of ram and order the crucial 2x16 32gb ram kit, because its only $350 and allows me to add on later and upgrade to 64gb. I think ive made my decision  ill probably end up getting it once school gets out, my parents deal was they would only pay the difference if i get straight A's all school year, so far im holding up that promise :D


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## dinerdog (Jan 10, 2015)

Is no one here just getting a top of the line iMac instead? Seems to be a pretty great combo for the price.


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## proxima (Jan 10, 2015)

dinerdog @ Sat Jan 10 said:


> Is no one here just getting a top of the line iMac instead? Seems to be a pretty combo for the price.


In terms of value and even in terms of absolute performance, a new high-end iMac is generally better than a lower-end new Mac Pro Just keep in mind that you have to choose the 27" model to add RAM to it (I have my late 2012 model now maxed out with 32 GB). Of course, it's also a fantastic screen thrown in.

In my mind, the only reason to go with a Mac Pro is if you're sure you need more than what an iMac can offer (e.g. 64 GB of RAM and at least 8 cores or so).


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## markstyles (Feb 5, 2015)

The new generation of VI plug-ins Aalto, Kaivo, Serum, Synthmaster are CPU HOGS.. But they are great. l I think one really needs to be aware that new plug-ins will make use of more cpu power. 

You certainly don't want your new Mac to be running low on processing power after 2-3 years.. My next computer will be a new mac pro.. I used to update religiiously every 3 years, now I'm going for 6 - 8.. years..


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## synthetic (Feb 5, 2015)

I will be installing one of these this weekend: 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CPU-Upgrade-Dual-Processor-2009-2010-Apple-Mac-Pro-12-core-3-46GHz-64GB-/221591585556?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3397e34314 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/CPU-Upgrade-Dua ... 3397e34314)

For $1500 it brings the 2009 Mac Pro up to the speed of the fastest TrashcanPro in the Apple Store ($8000). 12-core 3.46GHz with 64GB of RAM. Geekbench score of 31k compared to the current $8k Mac Pro score of 32k. 

Plus I get to keep my internal bays, PCI slots, etc. No Thunderbolt in my near future, but by the time I'm ready to upgrade Apple will have moved on to some new technology. Scott Glaskow talked about it on Bookface, he's very happy with it. 

Buy one of these plus a used Mac Pro 4,1 and you're golden. Later on I'll upgrade the video card and get a 27" 4k monitor or two.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Feb 5, 2015)

4 core only, limited thunderbolt. soldered in ram/32G max I believe.
Nice screen though.

Darth Pro can have upgraded processor when time comes down the road as well. I'm still throwing shit at mine and it giggles at me.



dinerdog @ Sat Jan 10 said:


> Is no one here just getting a top of the line iMac instead? Seems to be a pretty great combo for the price.


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## GORILLA (Feb 5, 2015)

I was going to grab one of the newer Mac Pro’s. Thought my 2006 dual core 2.66ghz 8GB ram Mac Pro was ready for Mac Pro heaven.

BUT… a bud of mine told me to save my money. And I ended up getting two 3.0Ghz quad core chips on Ebay. Grabbed a ATI graphics card. Added 14gigs of ram… and a SSD all for about $1000.

I now have a 3.0Ghz 8 core Mac Pro. Running Mavericks, off a SSD and three 2Tb drives all in the box. And a ATI graphics card with plenty of ram. Saved over $3,000 if I would of bought it new at Apple 

And this thing FLYS!!!!!! _-) =o _-)


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## GORILLA (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh and I grabbed a PCI- USB3.0 card for it to and run two external USB 3.0 drives


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## Seamus (Feb 5, 2015)

I went back and forth on this question for quite a while, and considered a souped up 2010 Mac Pro, a new Mac Pro, a souped up iMac, a Hackintosh... I finally settled on the new Mac Pro 6-core. 

I got a refurbished one through Apple, which is great because it's about 15-20% cheaper, but has the same exact warranty as a new one (1 year Applecare included with the option to push it to 3). For anybody looking to go this route, I would recommend http://www.refurb.me, which helped me find the exact model I wanted, since they rotate them in and out of stock very quickly. It shows you all the models that appear on the Apple Store, you pick the one you want, and it sends you an email when it becomes available. I got the 6-Core, 512GB internal flash drive, 12 GB RAM (to be upgraded), lowest graphics card, and it came to about $3200, I believe (plus tax).

Just keep in mind that if you go this route, you'll want to add external SSDs and a Thunderbolt enclosure to get the most of it. I got 2 drives for a TB and a half for now, and with the BlackMagic Multidock, that's another thousand bucks.


If you're absolutely sure you won't be needing Thunderbolt, I definitely wouldn't rule out getting a maxed out (or close) 12-core 2010 with SSDs. For me, the nMP seemed like a better choice right now. But I'm sure it varies for everyone.

I've finally gotten everything loaded on there and switched over from my laptop, and it's pretty damn amazing so far. I'm just getting started seeing what it can handle.


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## vudoo (Feb 5, 2015)

Go for the new 6 cores, i have both at the studio running PT HDX, HDN, DP, Logic x and Ableton and without a doubt the cylinder 6 cores is much faster. 

I also work as an online editor and use the 6 cores with dual D700 graphics for Davinci. When doing heavy lifting in davinci the 6 cores /Dual700 comes surprisingly close to my Linux/with external GPU tower that i paid close to 25 k just two years ago!!!

The only thing to consider is that, even though the 6 cores is really quiet, you most likely will have several thunderbolt boxes attached to it and they are LOUD as hell. Thank god, i have a machine room.


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## PeterKorcek (Feb 6, 2015)

nMP 6-core with PC slave for EW stuff, Kontakt stuff on Mac, and absolutely no problems with speed or workflow,


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## Jack Weaver (Feb 6, 2015)

Not a lot new to add yet to this thread, but I have been going thru the throes of the process of attempting to decide. The old 8-core 2008 Mac Pro is huffing and puffing to the finish line after years of distinguished service. 

My thoughts range from a new 8-core Mac Pro/64GB to a 2010 12-Core/64GB to maybe a 12-core Zeon PC/128GB - changing from my beloved Logic to Cubase 8. All of these would have whatever appropriate tech methodology that allows 6-8 SSD's for streaming. (I also have a big PC slave already.) I use 3 Avid HD and 192 audio interfaces for attaching outboard gear and feeding monitor speakers. 

These days I'm doing more mixing than writing but writing is still an important part of the bag o' tricks. I need a lot of Master machine processing power for plugins and synths. 

The major trepidation of going the PC/Cubase route is that since I've had to move to a relatively remote area for a couple years that there is no one locally that could give me a thorough run-through on the things I would need out of Cubase. Sure, I can learn things online but there's nothing like having someone show you something in 10 seconds other than spending several hours online to figure out one keystroke. 

OK, I've got that off my chest for a minute. 

.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Feb 6, 2015)

Blackmagic MD, worth there weight in gold and completely silent guys.
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... multidock/

I havnt added Play to my 6 core yet, did you try it before you went the the pc btw ?



vudoo @ Thu Feb 05 said:


> The only thing to consider is that, even though the 6 cores is really quiet, you most likely will have several thunderbolt boxes attached to it and they are LOUD as hell. Thank god, i have a machine room.


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## Greg (Feb 6, 2015)

new mac pro all the way, it changed my life


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## Jack Weaver (Feb 6, 2015)

Greg said:


> new mac pro all the way, it changed my life


How so? Do you have slaves? Do you use Logic? What are your interfaces?

.


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## vudoo (Feb 6, 2015)

> I havnt added Play to my 6 core yet, did you try it before you went the the pc btw ?




I ordered a Dell workstation but have been too busy. Hopefuly by the end of the month i'll have some free time to test it. I'l report back soon...


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## Vision (Feb 6, 2015)

I bought a 2012 3.46 12 core in December. Came from a late 2008 3.2 8 core. Couldn't be happier. Putting my system on a Pci-e SSD was the cherry on top. I was going to go 12core nMP or bust, but decided not to jump. For various reasons.. (If you want to know, search my name for thread topics). Thinking that this machine will last me at least 4-5 years. Based on the performance so far, not too worried.


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## TeamLeader (Feb 7, 2015)

Greg @ Fri Feb 06 said:


> new mac pro all the way, it changed my life



Hey Greg. Can you give us specific details please on what you came from,before the new MP, and how it changed your workflow?


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## AC986 (Feb 7, 2015)

dinerdog @ Sat Jan 10 said:


> Is no one here just getting a top of the line iMac instead? Seems to be a pretty great combo for the price.



Hey Steve, yes but only when and if the current sound card issue is definitely worked out. I believe it might be now, especially if the internal drive is an SSD and not a Fusion.

What would be better though is whether or not Apple will produce a 30 plus inch iMac screen so I am waiting for a while and sticking with this old 2008 3.0 very clunky but still working MacPro. Probably change the audio card too. Maybe another Ensemble with TB or if not that then an RME or Apollo of some description. I don't use anything like the size templates that you guys all seem to use so it's not an issue one way or another with the Macs.


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## Greg (Feb 7, 2015)

Jack Weaver @ Fri Feb 06 said:


> Greg said:
> 
> 
> > new mac pro all the way, it changed my life
> ...



No slaves, I use LPX and VEP for big multis or processor intensive libraries and Apollo Quad interface. Everything just works, and the rig has yet to even hickup over anything I throw at it. I went with the 8 core & 64g ram, with all samples on ssds. Everything is so much more fluid and faster, it proved to be quite freeing creatively. 

I say it changed my life because now it's fun and exciting again to use my creative tools and not a royal pain in the ass!

I used to use a Hackintosh, which to rely on professionally is absolutely nuts.


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## dinerdog (Feb 7, 2015)

adriancook - ha, I was just going to PM you and ask. ; )

This last one looked good, I was thinking of waiting for this Spring speed bump and try to verify that pesky audio thing. It would be nice if it 'someone' could say, "we figured it out", and know that it works with any audio interface. Still a bit of a mystery, and yes, which internal to get with it. Will be eagerly watching what comes next.


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## vudoo (Feb 7, 2015)

> No slaves, I use LPX and VEP for big multis or processor intensive libraries and Apollo Quad interface. Everything just works, and the rig has yet to even hickup over anything I throw at it. I went with the 8 core & 64g ram, with all samples on ssds. Everything is so much more fluid and faster, it proved to be quite freeing creatively.



Do you use PLAY with you nMP or strictly Kontakt[/quote] ?


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## Greg (Feb 7, 2015)

vudoo @ Sat Feb 07 said:


> Do you use PLAY with you nMP or strictly Kontakt



I don't use PLAY whatsoever.


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## DocMidi657 (Feb 7, 2015)

Hey Greg,

Do you have any fan noise to deal with or is completely silent when working?
Dave


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## Dryden.Chambers (Feb 7, 2015)

If I can add, the darth pro is very quiet, near silent. If you go with the Blackmagic to host your SSD's it is no fan-quiet.

Another advantage is Thunderbolt. If you are a Universal Audio Apollo user, your bandwidth, latency, and plugin count are all improved using the thunderbolt card. Have more UA is always a good thing : )

I would also like to know if anyone has added Play to there newer darth pro and are having success. I been holding off after cleaning up my template on my new machine.




DocMidi657 @ Sat Feb 07 said:


> Hey Greg,
> 
> Do you have any fan noise to deal with or is completely silent when working?
> Dave


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## Craig Sharmat (Feb 8, 2015)

I got a new 8 core a year ago and have been disappointed with the performance when running large templates in Logic. It may be down to Logic and Kontakt that is the problem but I get spotty performance even with refurbed Samsung 840 drives in TB enclosures.


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## Greg (Feb 8, 2015)

DocMidi657 @ Sat Feb 07 said:


> Hey Greg,
> 
> Do you have any fan noise to deal with or is completely silent when working?
> Dave



Yes, your thunderbolt drive enclosure will likely have a noisy fan. Unless you use all SSD's, then you won't need the cooling. I use http://www.akitio.com/desktop-storage/a ... nder2-quad

This rack case helps break up the noise a little and gives the set up more security + earthquake defense: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003LD1U8Y/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_10?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003LD ... PDKIKX0DER)


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 8, 2015)

Dryden.Chambers @ Sun Feb 08 said:


> If I can add, the darth pro is very quiet, near silent. If you go with the Blackmagic to host your SSD's it is no fan-quiet.
> 
> Another advantage is Thunderbolt. If you are a Universal Audio Apollo user, your bandwidth, latency, and plugin count are all improved using the thunderbolt card. Have more UA is always a good thing : )
> 
> ...



Thunderbolt is not an advantage over PCI.


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## FriFlo (Feb 8, 2015)

I was just deciding between another PC or the 2013 Mac Pro 6 Core. For comparison, I locked for the components, that were close to the Mac Pro ones and compared the price. I can only say: if your life does not depend on OS X, PC all the way! I ended up with components for 2500€:
6 core e5 3,5 ghz
128 Gb ram
3 1tb Samsung EVO SSDs
a motherboard with 10 6 Gb/s Sata ports and even an m2 port, if I need a real fast SSD, like in the Mac pro.
With the helmet, you would pay more than 6000€ for a 64 gb machine with a TB SSD. Sure, the SSD is faster, but it will be the system drive, so, why would I need that to be so fast? For more SSDs for samples, you would need to add a black magic dock and buy those SSDs seperatly. I didn't need a calculator to see, which was more bang for the buck. And the Mac pro doesn't even offer the possibility of 128 gb ram, at least not atm ...


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## Vision (Feb 8, 2015)

FriFlo @ Sun Feb 08 said:


> I was just deciding between another PC or the 2013 Mac Pro 6 Core. For comparison, I locked for the components, that were close to the Mac Pro ones and compared the price. I can only say: if your life does not depend on OS X, PC all the way! I ended up with components for 2500€:
> 6 core e5 3,5 ghz
> 128 Gb ram
> 3 1tb Samsung EVO SSDs
> ...



The nMP can run 128GB ram, but only at 1066mhz, unless you stay at 64GB ram. Which was another reason I opted for a cMP. Btw, imo if you're using a lot of vi's, I'd opt for an 8 core machine at minimum. Or even buy a 4 core nMP, and swap the processor out with a 10 core 3GHz. I'd think you want to take advantage of hyper-threading.. At least if you are using logic, or are using a DAW that can utilize hyper-threading.


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## FriFlo (Feb 9, 2015)

Really? I keep hearing people saying, there should be a good balance between number of cores and processor frequency and that the 6 core Mac pro has the best ratio. Well, I can see how that is going and when I want to exchange some components there easily is some money left to do that.
With the nMP I would have spend almost all of the budget without even getting multiple SSDs with the BM dock. At the current price point, I could even decide, this machine will become another slave, replacing my older 32gb ram slave. I have easily left the money, to build a second machine, possibly one with less ram and a very fast CPU instead to handle all those incoming audio streams and plugins. That is the nice thing, once you rule out Apple computers. Of course I understand some people like logic or the OS (me,too, by the way), but is it really worth this? To me (being a logic user for 10 years) not.


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## Vision (Feb 9, 2015)

FriFlo @ Mon Feb 09 said:


> Really? I keep hearing people saying, there should be a good balance between number of cores and processor frequency and that the 6 core Mac pro has the best ratio. Well, I can see how that is going and when I want to exchange some components there easily is some money left to do that.
> With the nMP I would have spend almost all of the budget without even getting multiple SSDs with the BM dock. At the current price point, I could even decide, this machine will become another slave, replacing my older 32gb ram slave. I have easily left the money, to build a second machine, possibly one with less ram and a very fast CPU instead to handle all those incoming audio streams and plugins. That is the nice thing, once you rule out Apple computers. Of course I understand some people like logic or the OS (me,too, by the way), but is it really worth this? To me (being a logic user for 10 years) not.



I think it depends on what kind of vi's you are using. I'm just going by my personal needs.. I use a lot of vi's. For me, being able to utilize all 24 threads in Logic is a big deal. I reiterate.. This is why I made the personal choice to go with a suped up 2012 ('10) Mac Pro. I have a higher clock speed than a nMP 12core, and am able to use the maximum physical/virtual cores that I need. The only "downside" is not having thunderbolt. I just don't need it.


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## ag75 (Feb 10, 2015)

I have the new MP 6core (64g ram) and I LOVE it. I also travel quite often and it flys with me where ever I go. It's pretty amazing. I have a pretty decently loaded PC I wast to add as a slave for my East West Libraries, but I haven't had a change to figure all of that out. If anyone has any advice or could point me towards some tutorials I would appreciate it.


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## jcs88 (Feb 10, 2015)

ag75 @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> I have the new MP 6core (64g ram) and I LOVE it. I also travel quite often and it flys with me where ever I go. It's pretty amazing. I have a pretty decently loaded PC I wast to add as a slave for my East West Libraries, but I haven't had a change to figure all of that out. If anyone has any advice or could point me towards some tutorials I would appreciate it.



How do you deal with expandability when travelling? What drives/enclosures are you using? And what audio interface?

Cheers


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## FriFlo (Feb 10, 2015)

I thought about portability, too, when I was looking at the mac pro. For recording this would definitively be a bonus. But as jcs88 already suggested: If you run a composer template, you will need at least one Black Magic Dock with SSDs. Add a rack sound interface to it and you already have your rack case with at least 8 units or a smaller case with the MP separate. You could build a PC in a 4 unit rack enclosure, have the SSDs inside the PC and be good with 5-6 units rack. So, portability is only better, if you do recording jobs, I would say.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Feb 10, 2015)

Good tutorial on using VEP5.
http://www.orchestraltemplates.com/tutorial.html



ag75 @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> I have the new MP 6core (64g ram) and I LOVE it. I also travel quite often and it flys with me where ever I go. It's pretty amazing. I have a pretty decently loaded PC I wast to add as a slave for my East West Libraries, but I haven't had a change to figure all of that out. If anyone has any advice or could point me towards some tutorials I would appreciate it.


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 10, 2015)

Dryden.Chambers @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> Good tutorial on using VEP5.
> http://www.orchestraltemplates.com/tutorial.html
> 
> 
> ...



With all due respect to Tobias, that is not the best way to set it up for use with Logic Pro X.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Feb 10, 2015)

I'm sure you will PM him how Jay : )



EastWest Lurker @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> Dryden.Chambers @ Tue Feb 10 said:
> 
> 
> > Good tutorial on using VEP5.
> ...


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## passenger57 (Feb 10, 2015)

The new macpro is more energy efficient and greener. Also it's virtually silent. 
Might save some $ on your electric bill:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/01/ ... tal-report


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 10, 2015)

My old Mac Pro is virtually silent. On the other hand I heard a lot about "core whine" from the CPU's/GPUS's of the new Mac Pro


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 10, 2015)

Dryden.Chambers @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> I'm sure you will PM him how Jay : )
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No. A couple of years ago I might have but I don't feel the need to these days.


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## Living Fossil (Feb 10, 2015)

FriFlo @ Sun Feb 08 said:


> I was just deciding between another PC or the 2013 Mac Pro 6 Core. For comparison, I locked for the components, that were close to the Mac Pro ones and compared the price. I can only say: if your life does not depend on OS X, PC all the way!



That's it,...

The day when Apple bought Emagic is maybe the sadest day in software-history, at least for me....
Comparing prices is just ridiculous.
You can get Dell Workstations with 512 GB of Ram; but you have to pay thousands for 64 GB Ram on mac.

While i worked more than 25 years with Logic (...Notator...), i think my next computer could be a PC...


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 10, 2015)

Living Fossil @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> FriFlo @ Sun Feb 08 said:
> 
> 
> > I was just deciding between another PC or the 2013 Mac Pro 6 Core. For comparison, I locked for the components, that were close to the Mac Pro ones and compared the price. I can only say: if your life does not depend on OS X, PC all the way!
> ...



But if Apple did not, there might not still be a Logic Pro. Remember Studio Vision?


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## Living Fossil (Feb 10, 2015)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> But if Apple did not, there might not still be a Logic Pro. Remember Studio Vision?



I had never to do with studio vision, but i had a lot of contact/exchange with the emagic team (before the Apple-take-over).
And i have to add that i absolutely don't like the impact of Apple on the software.
Logic Pro is rather Garage Band Pro, in my opinion.
I still use Logic 9, btw.

And now i'm at a point where i think that Cubase on PC is rather a better alternative to Logic X.


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 10, 2015)

Living Fossil @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Tue Feb 10 said:
> 
> 
> > But if Apple did not, there might not still be a Logic Pro. Remember Studio Vision?
> ...



If you think Logic Pro X is GarageBand Pro then you are too focused on the effort to make the transition for GB users easier and not paying enough attention to the many features and improvements that longtime Pro users have been asking for for years.


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## Living Fossil (Feb 10, 2015)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> If you think Logic Pro X is GarageBand Pro then you are too focused on the effort to make the transition for GB users easier and not paying enough attention to the many features and improvements that longtime Pro users have been asking for for years.



Well, it's subjective, as always. And for me it's about "feeling home" when it comes to my daily work-tool. I worked with Logic X on a few occasions (in the studio of a friend) and - after spending more than 25 years with Logic - the software was completely unfamiliar. No keycommands working, etc. (I'm sure that's something one could optimize). I know there are tons of new features; unfortunately they are not relevant for me. What would be relevant for me (notation....) hasn't changed.
As much i'm glad for the people who are glad about Logic X; i'm just not (that's why i'm still on Logic 9.1.8 on MacOS 10.6.8 )
There is the routine and tons of work (lots of my own samples for EX24 etc) that keeps me with Logic, but i'm getting towards a point where Cubase starts being the more rational solution.
(and, unluckily, for me it's a relevant aspect if i pay 4000 or 8000 bucks for the same computing power...)


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 10, 2015)

Cubase is a fine DAW and financial considerations are understandable. But there is one unavoidable fact : If you have worked with Logic that long it will take you hundreds of hours to get as fluid with Cubase as you are with Logic Pro 9 while with the help of someone like me you could be as fluid with Logic Pro X in two weeks. 

Just saying


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## Living Fossil (Feb 10, 2015)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> Cubase is a fine DAW and financial considerations are understandable. But there is one unavoidable fact : If you have worked with Logic that long it will take you hundreds of hours to get as fluid with Cubase as you are with Logic Pro 9 while with the help of someone like me you could be as fluid with Logic Pro X in two weeks.



I have to add that 15 years ago i worked in a studio that had Cubase. So i had to "learn" Cubase within a week, when i started there. And i have to say it worked pretty well. Two years later, i moved back to Logic, but since that time i was missing Master Track (similar tasks are a pita in Logic...).
So basically it's up to further evaluation. Fortunately a friend of mine is working with Cubase, so i can have another look, if i can get my favorite shortcuts working there.
While i was an early buyer of ES2, EVP88, the vocoder etc. when Emagic launched that stuff i've replaced the main part of Plug ins (instruments & effects) by 3rd party stuff in the mean time. 
We will see.
Logic on PC would be great, but that option is probably lost forever...


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 10, 2015)

Well whichever way you decide, good luck.


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## FriFlo (Feb 10, 2015)

If only, apple would be so kind not to charge double the amount of ram and HD upgrade ... It's not, that I wouldn't pay a little more for a nice Mac pro than the components are worth! But I can't justify to buy the smalles possible configuration, throw out the SSD and ram I didn't want and buy 64gb ram and the 1tb SSD elsewhere for a reasonable price. if only for the principles: I can't do that!


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## dtonthept (Feb 10, 2015)

Gotta say I totally resonate with all the thoughts being shared above on nMPs.

Both the fact that I'm sure they are amazing computers, and the fact that's bit of research into the PC will Make even the most long term die hard mac user, such as myself, very seriously look at switching over to PC.

I would rather learn a whole new DAW (Cubase) on a different platform (PC) than feel trapped into a ridiculously expensive computing option by a company that had plainly shifted focus from professional creators to consumer gadgets over the past years.

My mac loyalties were formed back on OS....7, I think.... I feel confident that new versions of Windows will not be worse than that 

Probably the biggest misstep apple has made, which in all seriousness is a major motivating factor to switch, is making file tags into a stupid little coloured dot instead of the full line highlight they used to be. The fact that this was approved as an OS feature indicates far too many depressing trends for me to clog up this forum with


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## ag75 (Feb 11, 2015)

I have a few G-drives that I use for my sample libraries and I have a Duet as an audio interface with some smallish M-audio monitors. Works well. I have never made it past security with my nMP though. It is too dense and security always makes me take it out. I bought it when they first came out and most people didn't know what it was and it kinda looks like it could be a bomb. :shock:


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 11, 2015)

dtonthept @ Tue Feb 10 said:


> Gotta say I totally resonate with all the thoughts being shared above on nMPs.
> 
> Both the fact that I'm sure they are amazing computers, and the fact that's bit of research into the PC will Make even the most long term die hard mac user, such as myself, very seriously look at switching over to PC.
> 
> ...



Why not have the best of both worlds with a decently powered Mac and a powerful slave PC?

Personally I would rather do almost _anything_ other than learn a whole new DAW, but then again I have used Logic since 1.0 in 1990 something.


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## mc_deli (Feb 28, 2015)

GORILLA @ Fri Feb 06 said:


> I was going to grab one of the newer Mac Pro’s. Thought my 2006 dual core 2.66ghz 8GB ram Mac Pro was ready for Mac Pro heaven.
> 
> BUT… a bud of mine told me to save my money. And I ended up getting two 3.0Ghz quad core chips on Ebay. Grabbed a ATI graphics card. Added 14gigs of ram… and a SSD all for about $1000.
> 
> ...



This is one of my all time favourite posts!

I have the same machine. It is a gem! Thanks to this post and a read around I have 2 icy docks, some SSD's and 32gb in the post. And I watched the processor swap tutorials. And the 2,1 firmware update threads. And will probably pull the trigger on the chips shortly. 
I have a bit of conundrum. I have the 2006 MP and a 2006 MBP. And I am about to lose the 2012 iMac I have in the studio. I am loath to buy a 2012 MP or iMac. If the supa-1,1 can't handle being a main machine then I have the budget for a new MBP 15" but probably not a new MP...

Questions:

- did you get the Sonnet Tempo or something else and was it worth it?
- why no ssd system drive?
- what is the geekbench multicore score - is the overall package going to run multiple plays and kontakts and the daw (logic here) or is it just a super slave?


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## edhamilton (Feb 28, 2015)

I own a nMP 6 core. Pretty disappointed with it overall. 
I've seen 12 core 3.46 2010's going for $1700 on ebay. If I had to do it over I'd go that route.
If fact, I might pick one up as a slave.

As far as moving totally to windows - no way. rather pull my fingernails out with pliers as it would be less painful. Anytime I go to do anything with my PC slaves it ends with hours of web searches sorting out windows stuff. I fully admit to having a low IQ though. I was smart at one point in life but years have a way of shaving IQ points off your score.


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## Vision (Feb 28, 2015)

edhamilton @ Sat Feb 28 said:


> I own a nMP 6 core. Pretty disappointed with it overall.
> I've seen 12 core 3.46 2010's going for $1700 on ebay. If I had to do it over I'd go that route.
> If fact, I might pick one up as a slave.



At that point, you may as well use the 6 core as a slave. The 12 core is much faster. Get some pci-e ssd's and be done with it..

I should also mention that those selling for $1700 on ebay are likely refurb 2009 4,1's with updated 5,1 firmware. They still work, but just be sure that the unit is built to spec. 2009's need other internal hardware updates. I'd personally shoot for an original 5,1.


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 28, 2015)

Vision @ Sat Feb 28 said:


> At that point, you may as well use the 6 core as a slave. The 12 core is much faster. Get some pci-e ssd's and be done with it..
> 
> Are you sure about that? The newer Mac Pros have faster chips (and use faster RAM( and faster chips generally affect processor power more than cores after 4 AFAIK.


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## Vision (Feb 28, 2015)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Feb 28 said:


> Vision @ Sat Feb 28 said:
> 
> 
> > At that point, you may as well use the 6 core as a slave. The 12 core is much faster. Get some pci-e ssd's and be done with it..
> ...



I'm basing this off of the barefeats benchmark tests, and also, more importantly, talking with composers that are using the nMP 8 core. Yes, the RAM on a 6 core nMP is faster spec. And yes the CPU is newer. But as far as I can tell, the 12 core 3.46 is more efficient than the 6 and 8 nMP. Especially in logic. Being able to utilize 24 threads plus 2 x 3.46 ghz is a great balance. 

I’ve also participated in a gearslutz multicore benchmark test. The highest I’ve seen the 6 cores max out was about 180 tracks. I was able to manage 226 tracks.

Also, if I were to attempt to use 128 gigs of RAM, (which I'm using at 1333mhz) in a nMP, it will revert to 1066mhz.


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## Jack Weaver (Mar 10, 2015)

Finally got of the fence deciding between the new Mac Pro and and a souped-up older Mac Pro. My 2008 8-core has nobly served it's purpose. I was waiting for an Apple announcement regarding a new Mac Pro upgrade. The Apple Watch and Macbook announcement occurred yesterday with no mention of the Mac Pro. Gotta move on here. 

I just purchased a refurbed Mac Pro with a one year warranty off of Ebay. Its a 3.46GHZ 12 core/64GB /500GB SSD w/GTX680 2GB video card for $3250. Supposedly the video card can handle a 4K monitor. Also I'll be ordering an eSATA card ($117) and a ICY DOCK MB998SP-B 2.5" drive chassis ($133) to hold 8 SSD's. I purchased the SSD's about a month ago. I'll also populate the PCIe slots with a Pro Tools card for my Pro Tools interfaces (even though I generally run Logic X) and another PCIe SSD card to hold projects and audio files. 

I also have a 12 core Xeon PC for my VE Pro sample slave. 

It might be a few weeks before I get around to changing over to the new machine. But the dye is now cast. The mixes I've been doing are getting pretty big and complex. The old 8 core was choking even with most of my reverbs being hardware and the audio files being feed of a PCIe SSD card. 

I surprised myself. I was pretty set on the new Mac Pro earlier in the process. Thanks to everyone on this thread for your input. 

.


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## Simon Ravn (Mar 11, 2015)

Jack, be careful with the 4k - as far as I know it can only do 30hz at 4k, which will look like sh*t (think motion picture like refresh rate, just a little above that). Apart from that, looking good.


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 11, 2015)

Congrats, jack, sounds great.


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## Jack Weaver (Mar 11, 2015)

Thanks Simon,

I should have explained in more detail in my post, but I intend only to use a 4K monitor for only displaying the DAW software. I want to have the monitor at a greater distance from me, yet large enough and with enough resolution to show a good amount of tracks and plugins. In my day to day work I don't have directors sitting over my shoulder looking at video. 

Yeah Jay,
It's been a long process coming to this conclusion. Thanks for hearing me out on the phone last week. 

I don't think my conclusion is necessarily the correct answer for everyone. It's highly individualistic depending upon the situation. 

.


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## JohnBMears (Mar 17, 2015)

Hi there! 

I was also thinking about the 12 Core Mac upgrade. Wondering if you did it and how it is working out?

Thanks for the insight!

JOHN


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## Dryden.Chambers (Mar 17, 2015)

Is Mr. Clouser around ? Heard he was going new Mac Pro. Charlie would love to hear how your getting along and what made you go with the vader helmet ?


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## Jack Weaver (Mar 17, 2015)

John - 

Still waiting for the unit to get here. Also I had spec'd the wrong eSATA chassis for the SSD's. Had to exchange and that'll take a while to get going also. 

.


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## gsilbers (Mar 17, 2015)

I have the 2009 nahalem Mac Pro 2.66 x8.

I'm really thinking about upgrading CPUs. For $1000 I would get plenty of juice. 

But also, for $2500 I could get a 2012 Mac Pro (12 core - last one before the new small black ones)

So I dunno. 

On one hand I would be prolonging my Mac Pro, wait until a new new Mac Pro or prices go lower and on the other hand maybe a 12 core from 2012 is more than enough for my daw if I host stuff on a pc slave.


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## JohnBMears (Mar 17, 2015)

Understand completely. My MP is a 2.26 8-Core from 2009. Trying to figure out where upgrading to this would get me on a single-machine setup.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221591585556?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/221591585556?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT)

For the price, could I get an equally capable PC Slave and keep the 8-core as is (networked)?

Thanks for any insight!

JOHN


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## JohnBMears (Mar 17, 2015)

Thanks so much. What are the main pros/cons of of upgrading a 8 core to a 12 core, versus having an original 12 core? 

JOHN


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 22, 2015)

I have to say, if you already own PCI-e cards and a lot of drives, I think the way Jack went, with the previous gen Mac Pro 12-core is the way to go.

If not, then the trash can simply because it is a little faster, has Thunderbolt, and is more future proof.


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## careyford (Apr 1, 2015)

I miss Studio Vision.


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## Kaufmanmoon (Aug 28, 2015)

Just bumping this thread as I'm having to upgrade my 2009 Imac next year.
The Vader Mac seems the easy option but interesting to still read everyone going for the old shapes and supping them up and saving quite a bit of money by the looks of it.

I'd love to get into using VEpro and creating an actual template but there's no chance of that with what I have at the moment


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## IFM (Aug 28, 2015)

If the money allows I'd rather have the new Mac Pro just for the fact that it will be supported for many years to come and I wouldn't have to buy anything again for a long time.


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## careyford (Aug 28, 2015)

synthetic said:


> I will be installing one of these this weekend:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CPU-Upgrade-Dual-Processor-2009-2010-Apple-Mac-Pro-12-core-3-46GHz-64GB-/221591585556?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3397e34314 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/CPU-Upgrade-Dua ... 3397e34314)
> 
> ...



Even with SSD's you can't take advantage of thunderbolt's max speed yet anyway. Nearly equal to SATA3 from everything I've read. The thunderbolt benefit comes with other devices.


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## careyford (Aug 28, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> But if Apple did not, there might not still be a Logic Pro. Remember Studio Vision?



I loved Studio Vision and wish I had bought them. Or had had the money to buy them.


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## synthetic (Aug 28, 2015)

My upgraded Mac Pro has been running great. And MacMotive has been very helpful and responsive.


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