# 2 Goldsmith styled cues and some help with EQ



## José Herring (Jun 28, 2009)

_Post deleted_.

Thanks to those who had words of encouragement and offered up real suggestions for improvement.

best,

Jose


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## dcoscina (Jun 28, 2009)

Sort of Goldsmith meets Media Ventures (sorry but Jerry didn't really use percussion that way- at least the scores that I am familiar with). Also, you have captured late Goldsmith say from mid-90s on when his style became much more streamlined. It's nice but is it possible to get a smoother horn line? This is where VSL Epic Horns do a wee bit better than EW which, if I'm not mistaken, those are. I like the rest of the arrangement however. 

I'm partial to Goldsmith's '70s era with scores like Papillon, Boys from Brazil, The Omen, Wind and The Lion, and even early '80s like First Blood (the finest action score of that decade IMO)


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## José Herring (Jun 28, 2009)

I like the older Goldsmith too. Strong Heart is more of the late 80's style. Kind of Hoosiers, which I think is also a fine score. Epic Adventure is probably more my own than Goldsmith. I wasn't following anything in particular.

I put phrasing breaks purposely in the Horn lines. Just the way I hear music as a continous line with breaks. Gives the line more texture.

Epic horns are great. Could probably use them at some point along with the Fanfare trumpets. Might be a potent combination for larger styles.

Jose


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## re-peat (Jun 28, 2009)

I had to be told as well that these tracks were 'Goldsmith styled'. Listened to both pieces several times this morning (when they were posted as WAV's), searching for EQ problems in the strings, and the name Goldsmith never once popped in my head.

Jose,

Whatever problems there are in the strings, they certainly don't destroy the projection of the music. It seems to me though that, in focusing so much on the strings, you might have slightly lost sight of more prominent problems in other departments, for example: the percussion. Maybe it's me, but I find the sound of most of the percussion (in both tracks) completely at odds with the rest of the production. Some of those drum/percussion instruments sound surprisingly undistinguished, as if drawn from some jack-of-all-trades midi-module or something.

Either way, those drumsounds and some elements in the composition (see below) stood out far more noticeably as being 'in-need-of-some-more-attention' than anything in the stringsound.

On the compositional/arrangement side, I would like to suggest, if I may, to maybe try and dress up 'Strong Heart's I-III-IV-V progression in a less obvious way. That progression often acts as a poison, infesting the music with an unpleasantly high level of banality. Unless, that is, you do something _really special_ with either the arrangement or the melody on top, but both those antidotes are sadly absent, in my opinion.

_


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## JohnG (Jun 28, 2009)

Hi Jose,

Nice writing.

I usually put more reverb on brass than that, and I think perhaps some of what dcosina is missing in the French Horns might be scale, which a bit more reverb (or maybe more of the 'S' samples if you are using EWQLSO Platinum) might address. Extra reverb of course will gum things up but I think it will still sound more like what I take away from listening to Jerry Goldsmith's big action cues.

In my studio, listening through my speakers, I also felt the urge to beef up the low end in the big spots -- the big hits and the basic pulse points (or "landing" points if that's a better way to say it).

It's always interesting to witness what other composers take away from JG. Jose is focusing on one cue on "Hoosiers," which I bought but have only listened to maybe once, though I've practically worn out (figuratively, of course) my other JG recordings. 

In my own case, my truly ancient memories of "Planet of the Apes" were, I thought, informing a lot of what I'd been writing lately. However (though I still like what I wrote), I finally bought a copy of Jerry G's classic score after completing my project. As you might guess, my stuff was absolutely nothing like it, musically. Tonally, they have a lot in common, so maybe it was some faint but powerful impression of the vibe of that score that I was feeling, rather than the actual musical approach.


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## dcoscina (Jun 28, 2009)

Jose, your tracks remind me of stuff like The Mummy and Rudy. Both fine Goldsmith scores. Perhaps even a little bit of 13th Warrior.


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## José Herring (Jun 28, 2009)

Thanks for listening guys.

But trust me the nature of this gig didn't call for anything too cutting edge. I'd love to do it, but I'm sure it wouldn't have been accepted. The average person's ears these days is pretty tame when it comes to harmony and progression, especially considering that most music these days doesn't have any of that.

As far as the drums I do admit that I'm partial to synthetic sounding drums in commercial mixes. I'm weird, I know. But give me a Roland 909 or 808 and I'm a happy camper.

Jose


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## José Herring (Jun 28, 2009)

[quote:6286fe71a6="dcoscina @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:57 am"]Jose, your tracks remind me of stuff like The Mummy and Rudy. Both fine Goldsmith scores. Perhaps even a little bit ofsually have a little longer sustain than samples that are triggered within a legato phrase. It may be the same pitch, but it is different samples covering all phrase combinations within an octave up or down (as long as the instrument range permits) from the note previously played in the phrase. Overall the sustain isn't very long and that's why VSL introduced crossfade-instruments that allow to crossfade be


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## re-peat (Jun 28, 2009)

josejherring @ Sun Jun 28 said:


> (...) The average person's ears these days is pretty tame when it comes to harmony and progression, especially considering that most music these days doesn't have any of that.(...)



Assuming for one nano-second that there is some truth in that statement - which, frankly, I don't believe there is - it doesn't bother you in any way that that illustrious _average person_, dumb and 'tame-eared' as you claim him or her to be, is nonetheless seriously messing with the quality of your music? Doesn't it feel indescribably strange to let, on the one hand, a composer of Goldsmith's exceptionnal calibre inspire, influence and guide your writing and yet, on the other hand, in the very same piece, leave such a fundamental musical element as harmony in the hands of the tame-eared avarage persons out there?

I'm aware the above is terribly patronizing of me and I apologize. It's obviously none of my business to tell you or anyone else how to write music and to which principles one should adhere to. It's just that I don't understand the thinking behind this "average stuff for the average person"-approach, I really don't.

Here's one more related remark, not aimed at anyone specific, simply a general thought. It's my opinion that this latent and sad under-estimation of 'the average person' is perhaps the main reason why so much of the entertainment industry is in as dreadful a state as it currently is: either this avarage phantom is knowingly provided for or, more worrying, it is used as an excuse for laziness and mediocrity _("They don't hear the difference between good or bad anyway so why waste time on trying to be good to begin with?"_ or _"I couldn't come up with anything better than this, but no one will notice anyway, so it doesn't really matter"_.) That's degrading the average person to the convenient idiot, no? Not to mention the self-degradation, which I would find even more embarrassing and difficult to live with.

_


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## JohnG (Jun 28, 2009)

in the abstract, re-peat, I absolutely agree and I would bet Jose would as well.

By contrast, faced with a living, breathing director or producer, for whom it appears Jose produced this music, it is not always easy to move people from pre-conceived ideas if one wants the job, as perhaps you've experienced yourself. One tries; one can even "yes" the person but still show him an alternative, but sometimes even that really bugs him and makes him think the composer is not listening.

The customer is always right, but... 

...most customers are at best only partially informed. That's why the zeitgeist -- the general tenor of what's perceived as good film music -- really does matter to those of us who don't have the heft to move opinions single-handedly. 

To me, Jose's comment illustrates that plight -- the poverty of the general artistic environment -- not that he's somehow capitulated or supporting the state of affairs.


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## José Herring (Jun 28, 2009)

re-peat @ Sun Jun 28 said:


> josejherring @ Sun Jun 28 said:
> 
> 
> > (...) The average person's ears these days is pretty tame when it comes to harmony and progression, especially considering that most music these days doesn't have any of that.(...)
> ...



Firstly your assuming that I think that I wrote something bad. Which I don't, and it isn't. If you listen to the Goldsmith Hoosier example it's not screaming harmonic innovation. While sometimes I struggle with mockups I'm pretty solid on my compositional chops. It is what it is because the Job didn't call for anything too adventurous. 

Personally I think that composers get too hooked up on that. Believe me I know my harmony, voice leading and counterpoint better than most and to be quite honest in this day and age I don't find that I need it that much.

If I were writing a symphony or some Jazz, which I do, I'd certainly not present something as commercial sounding as these. But let's get real for one moment, "triumph of the heart" doesn't really call for a lot of harmonic movement. The style is just basically a I-IV-V type of movement with sometimes a secondary dominant if the piece is long enough.

I struggle with it too, but you have to realize that there's an audience out there who's use to listen to such grand hits as "boom, boom, pow". It's just a reality. Funny thing is I've come to enjoy the simplicity of it all and maybe instead of being on the edge theory wise I'm just deciding to have fun with it.

One more thing, I'm finding in the simplicity of it all a lot of emotional freedom. Like making simpler music makes it so that your emotions get across better.

Not to mention the fact that the people I wrote it for thought they sounded great.

Jose


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## synthetic (Jun 29, 2009)

I liked these. I hear Goldsmith updated for modern styles, which is perfect IMO. Not updating the style would make the cue sound dated, and why would you want that? Historical accuracy? Jerry himself would have done the same. 

I also think that a lot of harmonic complexity makes the piece sound dated in the current environment. As much as we're fans of the counterpoint in Williams and Goldsmith scores of the 70s and 80s, scores in the theater this week don't sound that way. I think you're right on target with these pieces. 

I agree with the mix comments that the horns sound too close. I thought the mix was a bit dark overall, like you rolled off the treble on the whole mix. This also caused the reverb to sound like it was getting "sucked up" in the room on my monitors. 

Strong Heart was my favorite of the two. I thought that the strings could be a bit thicker. Maybe detune one of your layers in a few places with pitch bend? 

Great writing overall.


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## synthetic (Jun 29, 2009)

re-peat @ Mon Jun 29 said:


> Any excuse is good to write facile, lazy and bland drivel these days, isn't it?



Not at all: I _choose_ to write facile, lazy, bland drivel. Jazz doesn't sell.


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## José Herring (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks synthetic. Very helpful comments I'll definitely try out your suggestions.

Re-Peat. I get it. You don't like them. But I really feel that you're missing the point. I just wrote what was in my heart to write. You've scrutinized the progression way more than I did. I didn't really even know what progression I was writing. Honestly I just was hearing something and it felt right so I printed it. I just have a hard time seeing what's so wrong with that.

Look I've gotten plenty of comments through PM's and other sources that have been positive. Few suggestions here and there along the lines of what synthetic wrote that were very helpful. Also, an offer from a member to help out replace the horn samples. All have been very good so far and have helped me to better realize a better use of samples. All that's been very helpful. Your comments frankly are not. When it's all negative I know that a person has an ulterior motive behind the comments. If you don't like me or my music I'm fine with that. You're not helping me pay my light bills or helping me keep my wife happy. 

So at this point I'm calling you out. If you think you can do better, which you obviously do judging by your comments, let me hear it. The instruction I got were do an Epic Adventure cue and do a emotional type cue along the lines of Hoosiers. 

But, until I hear something in a similar style that's better or more appropriate to the assignment I was given coming from you, I invite you to use restraint or it just seems like you're talking out of your ass with nothing real to back it up.

And if you want me to do some of your style of music I'd be happy to. I could use some more Jazz on my reel.

best,

Jose


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## choc0thrax (Jun 29, 2009)

josejherring @ Mon Jun 29 said:


> Thanks synthetic. Very helpful comments I'll definitely try out your suggestions.
> 
> Re-Peat. I get it. You don't like them. But I really feel that you're missing the point. I just wrote what was in my heart to write. You've scrutinized the progression way more than I did. I didn't really even know what progression I was writing. Honestly I just was hearing something and it felt right so I printed it. I just have a hard time seeing what's so wrong with that.
> 
> ...



You and Guy Bacon win the forum award for "Best Able to Recieve Criticism". I wouldn't tempt fate with pissing people off cause soemtimes people will abandon their "if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all" mantra's. On the upside you might end up with a more active thread.


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## dcoscina (Jun 29, 2009)

choco

how is your post productive in any way? How does the exchange between re-peat and Jose even concern you? Do you even write music? You're on all these forums yet I have never heard a single note of music from you.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 29, 2009)

dcoscina @ Mon Jun 29 said:


> choco
> 
> how is your post productive in any way? How does the exchange between re-peat and Jose even concern you? Do you even write music? You're on all these forums yet I have never heard a single note of music from you.



I write music here and there. My music is pretty terrible and never feel like sharing it.


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## José Herring (Jun 29, 2009)

I don't feel like Re-peats comments are critiques. I feel like they're just snobbery and I invite him to do better. That's it.

Not to mention the fact that by the rate top name composers get panned for their work on this forum on a daily basis I'm honored these days to be panned. Makes me feel like I'm on my way!!! I do get a small amount of satisfaction having sold something that people thought was great then having it panned here by certain people. Makes it seem like I'm doing the right thing in an odd way.

And for the recorded. Danny Elfman's brass sound in Terminator was just fine. Michael G. did what was expected for a retro movie like Star Trek and they could pay me any day to bang, pots and pans together for Transformers 2. It sounded great!

Jose


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## dcoscina (Jun 29, 2009)

choc0thrax @ Mon Jun 29 said:


> I write music here and there. My music is pretty terrible and never feel like sharing it.



Well, maybe it is good and you are just too hard on yourself. It's not as though you're composing on GPO or anything right?


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## choc0thrax (Jun 29, 2009)

josejherring @ Mon Jun 29 said:


> And for the recorded. Danny Elfman's brass sound in Terminator was just fine. Michael G. did what was expected for a retro movie like Star Trek and they could pay me any day to bang, pots and pans together for Transformers 2. It sounded great!



Well to each their own on the Terminator brass. Speaking of brass you should really go for the Epic Horns. I don't see how Star Trek is retro, it seemed to me like it was totally retooled to be current. Never heard Tranformers 2, I was planning on just drawing the number 2 next to the title of my Transformers cd and listening to that.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 29, 2009)

dcoscina @ Mon Jun 29 said:


> choc0thrax @ Mon Jun 29 said:
> 
> 
> > I write music here and there. My music is pretty terrible and never feel like sharing it.
> ...



Once I get my hands on Symphobia and Evolve I should be at Media Ventures level and maybe I'll post something then.


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## José Herring (Jun 29, 2009)

choc0thrax @ Mon Jun 29 said:


> josejherring @ Mon Jun 29 said:
> 
> 
> > And for the recorded. Danny Elfman's brass sound in Terminator was just fine. Michael G. did what was expected for a retro movie like Star Trek and they could pay me any day to bang, pots and pans together for Transformers 2. It sounded great!
> ...



Yeah. I'm looking into the Epic Brass at the moment. Sounds pretty good, but don't know if my mixing chops are up to the challenge to handle Vienna stuff. Does anybody know if Epic has any ambiance at all or is it as reflectionless as the rest of Vienna?


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## synthetic (Jun 29, 2009)

> Look I've gotten plenty of comments through PM's and other sources...



Hey, who's commenting through PM? Comment in the thread people. I think people learn by hearing music (any music) and seeing the critiques. Especially beginners. 

Oh, and for the uninitiated, Choco is the Flava Flav of VI. When the discussion gets too intense like Chuck D's rap, he comes in and says "yo yo yo, hold up!" just to shake everyone up. 

All of the VSL stuff is super dry. Appasionata Strings is the closest they have to any ambience and it's really subtle. I'm trying to get away from VSL now that other guys are also doing deep sampling and interval legato. Its just too hard to mix, it shouldn't be that hard. But you can get the horns as a download instrument (every other note sampled, missing some articulations) for not much cash. 

I like Sonic Implants and SAM brass but neither has interval legato. Westgate does on their horns and they're affordable. 

I wish I still had my Roland brass, especially the sampled fifths. But I sold it with my sampler before I had Translator.


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## José Herring (Jun 29, 2009)

I just don't think that people want to necessarily get dragged into this. Especially if there's a ultra negative poster. Or maybe it's me. People that know me know that I'm a lot more level headed than I come off on this forum at times. This place brings out the New York in me, from time to time.

Mostly the comments have been that the horn sound could be better with different samples. I agree. I just haven't found any horn samples that I really think are good yet. Also, another member helped me out early on with the Epic Adventure cue, with mix issues and with some helpful comments that ultimately lead me to change a few things to help drive the piece harder.

Jose


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## dcoscina (Jun 29, 2009)

choc0thrax @ Mon Jun 29 said:


> dcoscina @ Mon Jun 29 said:
> 
> 
> > choc0thrax @ Mon Jun 29 said:
> ...


 >8o


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## re-peat (Jun 29, 2009)

Look, I gave my opinion and a little bit of advice (formulated in a pretty friendly and respectful way, or so I thought). I then followed that up with some general remarks about my confusion regarding the attitude with which some people compose these days. I didn't condemn or ridicule anything or anyone, I merely expressed my incapability to understand what's going on here. And finally, I grew tired of reading yet another excuse for consciously delivering inferior and forgettable material, and I said so. Anything wrong with that? Don't tell me the precious egos got damaged _again_?
I mean, you all grab every opportunity to whine and rant about the decline of filmmusic and then, when the time comes to write some yourself, it's one silly excuse after another not to have to improve on the current deplorable state of affairs. Anyone care to explain?

Jose,

(1) I actually spent a considerable time listening repeatedly to your music, checking and doublechecking the stringsound on various monitors, paying close attention to everything else, and making a sincere effort to formulate my thoughts in a constructive way. That's what I did. If you'd ever do the same for me, my first reaction would be one of gratefulness.

(2) I didn't _scrutinize_ that progression. I scrutinized most everything else, yes, but not that chord sequence. What's there to scrutinize? It stared me right in the eye the first time I heard it. It just jumped out of the speakers. Again: there's nothing wrong with that progression _per se_ (plenty of beautiful things have been written over those chord changes). It's just that I would, in this specific context (which is an important nuance), make the arrangement so that the progression sounds just a bit less obvious (maybe by way of suspended notes and such). That's really all I was trying to say.
The only other critique I formulated was, that I thought the drums in these pieces sounded a bit at odds with the rest of the music. 

Ultra negative? Unhelpful? Snobbery? _Moi?_

(3) No ulterior motives whatsoever. I don't know you, do I? How could there be ulterior motives? Believe me, the only reason I stepped in this thread was a sincere intention to be of help. Helping can also be: hoping to create or stimulate an awareness that things can perhaps be made a bit better, don't you think? I do apologize if you feel it didn't turn out that way. I'm also very sorry to hear that you need help keeping your wife happy, by the way.

(4) I don't really expect an apology from you, for your infantile and stupid remarks about or towards me, but I would welcome one nonetheless.

(5) If I find the time anytime soon, I just might take you up on your invitation and write something in the style of what you were asked to do. But before that, I'll start by (re)posting some of my existing music one of these days. Mr. Bacos has asked me that very same question, by the way. (I guess he wants to know who the hell had the audacity to associate His Music with something as vulgar as a hotel bar.)

(6) I have the Epic Horns, by the way. If you'd like to hear some dry 'out-of-the-box' samples, just let me know and I'll post some phrases.

_


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## José Herring (Jun 29, 2009)

The above comment I can respect. Yes you're right. It is on the nose. But in all honesty that's what I was trying to accomplish. No confusion.

I'm not being lazy. Ok, maybe a little cause the job wasn't all that exciting to me. But, not laziness but a deliberate attempt to write something that I knew would fulfill the job and be accepted. Trust me. I've written for these guys before and I gave it my all. The comment I got was, "you're very talented. The piece is too dramatic, can you tone it down a bit?" So the next time I played it safe. On the nose and guess what? They where blown away by these. In this instance. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. Just do some professional work that I knew would be accepted.

Maybe in the future I'll get the "challenge us" type client. I use to get it a lot doing indie films in NY and even here in LA. But, believe me those kinds of clients are really far and few between now. Most of my guys just want it "on the nose" these days.

but, again having not done much music like this it's kind of fun just writing off the cuff without getting too deep about it.

Jose


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## Jaap (Jun 30, 2009)

Hi Jose,

I read the above posts of course, but I am giving you my feedback from as I hear it.

I didn't compare it straight away with Goldsmith, but tried to listen to it just with nothing in mind.

The music: the compositions are sounding very functional. I have not seen or know what they are ment for, but they sound functional to me. Not the most exciting new music, but good functional. Your melodies have a nice flow and seem to start and stop in a natural way. 

The mix: I am far from a good mixing engineer, but I give my opinion on what I hear. All in all the mixes for both pieces sound very flat to me. It almost sounds if it is too well thought off. I miss a bit the natural raw sound. Everything is too polished and cut off and for me it removed the natural feeling. The balance between instruments, the space behind is good, but you could search and explore a bit to make the sound more "full" - not louder or bigger, but it is kinda empty on some places. 
My suggestion is if you want to look into some parts, to spice it up a bit, bring it more alive again.

Thanks for sharing


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## José Herring (Jun 30, 2009)

Good suggestions. Yes you are right. I'm leaning towards kind of a more polished sound. Maybe I need to keep a happy medium. Interesting observation.

Thanks,

Jose


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 30, 2009)

"Happy Mediums' are far and few between these days. Of course one could have predicted that.


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

choc0thrax @ Mon Jun 29 said:


> You and Guy Bacon win the forum award for "Best Able to Recieve Criticism". I wouldn't tempt fate with pissing people off cause soemtimes people will abandon their "if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all" mantra's. On the upside you might end up with a more active thread.



It's Bacos, not Bacon.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 30, 2009)

Guy Bacos @ Tue Jun 30 said:


> choc0thrax @ Mon Jun 29 said:
> 
> 
> > You and Guy Bacon win the forum award for "Best Able to Recieve Criticism". I wouldn't tempt fate with pissing people off cause soemtimes people will abandon their "if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all" mantra's. On the upside you might end up with a more active thread.
> ...



Typo, the N and S are right next to each other on Canadian keyboards.


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

Geeze, my canadian keyboard must be screwed up :roll: .


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## choc0thrax (Jun 30, 2009)

That's what she said!


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 30, 2009)

FWIW, I really value Re-Peat's comments. IMO, he's one of the better composers here, an original voice. Much can be learned from paying attention to what he says.


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## José Herring (Jun 30, 2009)

Oh, don't worry. I'll be remembering him calling me a lazy, banal and uninspired composer for a long time. 

Jose


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 30, 2009)

I think you have taken this a bit out of context. While you may not find re-peat's tone to your liking I sense he was trying to help. Eventually you called him out and that's when this thread became more personal in nature. 

As composers we take pride in what we do and to get what is "perceived" to be a negative reaction can hurt. That is the price of posting but the payment is really getting sincere critique as tough as it may sometimes be to hear. I know few people who would have taken as much time to try give an honest answer. It's too bad the thread deteriorated.


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

So where can we hear Re-Peats music?


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 30, 2009)

He is a bit of an enigma shrouded in secrecy.

He posts a piece for a few days and then takes them down for what ever reason. It's worth looking out for and I hope he posts something fairly soon.


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

Is he the phantom of the opera or of V.1.Control?


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## José Herring (Jun 30, 2009)

Craig Sharmat @ Tue Jun 30 said:


> I think you have taken this a bit out of context. While you may not find re-peat's tone to your liking I sense he was trying to help. Eventually you called him out and that's when this thread became more personal in nature.
> 
> As composers we take pride in what we do and to get what is "perceived" to be a negative reaction can hurt. That is the price of posting but the payment is really getting sincere critique as tough as it may sometimes be to hear. I know few people who would have taken as much time to try give an honest answer. It's too bad the thread deteriorated.



I really don't think that telling somebody to show me rather than tell me is that big of a deal and I never thought the thread deteriorated until the point that he took a real self admitted patronizing tone towards me, like I was some kind of musical dope head that didn't know any better and that I was using an excuse to write inferior quality music. 

I fully understand that the music isn't to his liking, but why then comment?

I'm just not one to take things lying down. 

Plus I feel this place has gotten toxic.

Close the topic. I'm out.


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

It seems I'm not the only one ticked off by Re-Peats comments. You have to look at the positive of what someone presents before starting on the negative, and it's more helpful if it's constructive comments.

On the VSL forum I got very constructive and pleasant feedback by Mike Verta, which was refreshing, I felt much more respected and more encouraged to keep writing. The guy knows how to give comments, probably because he's been there....


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## artsoundz (Jun 30, 2009)

Just now read this thread. I didnt find re-peats comments at all patronizing. The trick with Piet is to not take it all personally. And as said previously. I've found Re-peat to be one of the most caring, INSIGHTFUL and passionate about music and composers on this forum-anywhere for that matter. Jose, he spent TIME on your music. thats a huge compliment.

I've often wondered to Piet if he could somehow find a less intense style sometimes, if only because some dont understand what he is trying to do. but I dont think that was the case here and his "tough love" teaches a lot more than the hugs. I think he's correct here and no way does he have any other motive than expecting the best out of his fellow composers.

and choco was right on in his unique way. cracked me up. I hope you invite me to your dumpster for a beer sometime, choco.

Guy, take a listen to Piet's music when you can.-if you can. But dont blink-you'll miss it.: ) 

You have much to gain.


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

Well I'm not going to go for a treasure hunt to find Re-Peat's music, if he wants me to hear it he knows my email. And only then I'll judge for myself if I like what he does or not. Maybe I'll love it or maybe I'll be as critical as he is.

What's his name? I can look up on google what's he's done.


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## artsoundz (Jun 30, 2009)

Well, good luck with the attitude. I've always found that kind of pretense gets in the way of learning something new.


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

artsoundz, I'm constantly learning new things all the time. Yes, I have an attitude, so what!

2nd, would you please get off my case, you're like reacting to every little comment I make on this forum. And then one day you think I'm great the next I'm a jerk. Why don't you just pick a daisy and go: "he's a jerk, he's great, he's a jerk, he's great....


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 30, 2009)

I know of a place where the members are much more respectful. Try posting there and you'll get much more honest, well thought-out constructive criticism from real pros. Day and night from this place, really:

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=16 (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/for ... y.php?f=16)


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 30, 2009)

Guy Bacos @ 30/6/2009 said:


> Is he the phantom of the opera or of V.1.Control?



Hey Guy,

For a guy who's only been here months, you've got a lot of balls making fun of one of our original members. Why don't you take the time to research Piet's posts. It's easy: use the Search function and read a bunch of his near 600 posts. You might learn a thing or two...


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

I know the guy is articulate and I believe he's an encyclopedia, but I've met a lot of people like that, so what I'm mainly interested is hearing his music. Is this possible?


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## artsoundz (Jun 30, 2009)

why dont you Pm him a nice respectful request? But at this point. you are looking for blood and if it were me, I would disregard you.


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

artsoundz @ Wed Jul 01 said:


> why dont you Pm him a nice respectful request? But at this point. you are looking for blood and if it were me, I would disregard you.



I have requested this to him directly, 2 days ago, for your information, I'm still waiting...


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## artsoundz (Jun 30, 2009)

I would suggest staying busy with something else.

Perhaps read "War and Peace". Thats a long one.

edit- Hey Guy-as long as I have your attention-I know you are involved with "The Composers Collective". How's that working out for you?


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

you just won't quit huh?


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

30-40 people writing a score and one person taking the main credit at the end, I decided to get out of The Composers Collective, although my experience was very enjoyable and I liked working with Evan, but I'm not for having someone else taking the credit for your style, I think there should at least be a neutral name representing a group of composers for the credit name.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 30, 2009)

Thonex and I were actually discussing the same concept yesterday. You never see it but why not create a group which can score a picture and give it a name like you would a sports team.


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## artsoundz (Jun 30, 2009)

quit? Not usually. But I will now before I have to apologize for my tactless wit.

I'm glad to hear about the collective. My impression, honestly, was that someone of your talent didnt seem to belong to that "thing". 

Believe it or not, guy, I'm on your side.

edit- yeah- but thats done already but the team isnt 40 people. I'm all for the less than ten concept. That to me could actually yield great results and isnt that far from the process of scoring pictures anyway.

but 40. Much better number for a malt liquor.


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

And this year the Oscar goes to the "L.A. Golden Scoring Team"!


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## artsoundz (Jun 30, 2009)

next-bobblehead dolls of composers. Hans Zimmer cross trainer tennis shoes.


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 30, 2009)

artsoundz @ Wed Jul 01 said:


> edit- yeah- but thats done already but the team isnt 40 people. I'm all for the less than ten concept. That to me could actually yield great results and isnt that far from the process of scoring pictures anyway.
> 
> but 40. Much better number for a malt liquor.



When I saw the sub credits of the music I couldn't believe how many were part of it!!
I wanted to try it out, I hadn't scored pictures for a long time, so I needed to prove myself I was up to it before tackling larger projects. Kind of like going back to the minors.


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## artsoundz (Jun 30, 2009)

Guy Bacos @ Tue Jun 30 said:


> artsoundz, I'm constantly learning new things all the time. Yes, I have an attitude, so what!
> 
> 2nd, would you please get off my case, you're like reacting to every little comment I make on this forum. And then one day you think I'm great the next I'm a jerk. Why don't you just pick a daisy and go: "he's a jerk, he's great, he's a jerk, he's great....



Guy-didnt see this. I just respond to what you say. And when I did i say you were great? or a jerk? Honestly, I've been REALLY nice to you. Witness my pm's to you and DP dan. TOTaLLY supportive . And up until your responses to the cocktail music. there has been nothing said good or bad. So..every little thing..not accurate,

But- I'll stop. I wont respond to your posts again. But I'll listen to your music. It's quite good, ya jerk. 

Besides, I dont want to promote violence to innocent flowers. I also refuse to hit Pinatas as it promotes violence to flamboyant animals.


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## nikolas (Jun 30, 2009)

Geez...

Deletitis all over again?!?!? Come on Jose! 

I actually don't ever remember deleting posts, or links, ever in my life. I must either be amazingly good composer to not attract bad comments, or I probably try to take them as they are: Helpful!:D

*Communication is a two way street. Treat it as such.*

Sadly I can't comment on the music since it's gone.


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## PolarBear (Jul 1, 2009)

Yeah... by deleting you're actually giving the negative criticism more weight by yourself instead of standing by what you did. No comment on the music from here then either.


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## germancomponist (Jul 1, 2009)

............. Hey!


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## Guy Bacos (Jul 1, 2009)

Yes, but that's easier said than done. In my personal opinion, when someone drops out, both parties are equally at fault.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 1, 2009)

And once again, folks, you see why I adhere to my policy of not publicly critiquing work here. The potential for discord is much greater than anything positive that has come out of it IMHO.


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## lux (Jul 1, 2009)

Jose,

I can understand your reaction. Re-peat probably values you able to provide something he likes more. Thats the reason when he usually comment as he did with you. Of course he applies his personal backgrounds, beliefs and tastes, but knowing his sincere musicianship (I didnt talk about his technique, mind you) probably his words worth a listen again when things get less heated.

I have to say though that probably this is the point of the thread when I permit suggesting you to force yourself a bit to get a more relaxed approach to what happened, and consider it with a more positive light. Most of all, you and only you can get out of your received feedbacks what you prefer, suggestions, technicalities, hopes, and even nothing at all, zero. Its up to you after all and nobody here is discussing your musicianship imho.

I trust your critical attitude and intelligence so i'm sure you'll find your best way to deal with this thread and perhaps give your music back to waiting listeners here.

Luca


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## Guy Bacos (Jul 1, 2009)

My advice to Jose would be, if you feel this advice is not helping you then forget about it. I personally understand your reaction, I heard your piece, I thought there was some great moments and with a bit of tweaking I'm sure you could elevate it to a higher level. Find the person who will help you do that and the hell with the others. Good luck man.


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## mixolydian (Jul 4, 2009)

josejherring @ Sun Jun 28 said:


> _Post deleted_.


Is it possible to get the tracks elsewhere?


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