# Cubase 10 - why are the time stretch algorithms so awful?



## tarantulis (Jul 1, 2020)

Today I tried to extend a simple 48k/24-bit WAV sample in Cubase. What I was met with was some of the worst time-stretching I've ever heard.

I experimented with all the algorithms...I couldn't find anything that didn't just completely mangle the audio.

As an experiment, I opened up Logic and did the same time-stretching with the same audio file. NIGHT AND DAY difference. I did it in Ableton, same story.

Is there any way around this? A way to download a better algorithm, or am I going to have to switch between DAWs every time I want to stretch a sound?


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## Headlands (Jul 1, 2020)

Nope. Cubase is behind in this way, unfortunately. I use time-stretch in it as much as is feasible, but as you stated, compared to all other DAWs i've tried such as Reaper, Logic, Studio One, and Pro Tools, Cubase is definitely behind when it comes to things audio-time-stretching-related, including hit point detection. Let's hope they finally get it up to speed with Cubase 11.


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## tarantulis (Jul 1, 2020)

Good to know...I see there's a way to modify the "standard - custom" preset, maybe that will yield some results if I mess with it for long enough. There's always Time Machine if things get desperate..still, a big pain..


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## eross2121 (Jul 1, 2020)

just get serato sample vst it’s got to be the best time stretching algorithm out there.


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## tarantulis (Jul 1, 2020)

eross2121 said:


> just get serato sample vst it’s got to be the best time stretching algorithm out there.



Yeah? I'll give it a try.

thx!


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## Virtuoso (Jul 1, 2020)

There's the new TS2 from Ircam - $29 intro price. Quality time stretching plus automation:-









TS2


Based on Ircam's Super VP engine, the TS2 sets a high standard in digital audio editing. It is a powerful audio toolbox application for professionals to edit or magically transform, time-stretch and manipulate audio files. This plug-in has an accurate real-time sonogram display and handles full...




www.ircamlab.com


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## olvra (Jul 2, 2020)

tarantulis said:


> I see there's a way to modify the "standard - custom" preset



aren't you using élastique pro?


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## Dietz (Jul 2, 2020)

For a long time, Prosoniq's "Time Factory 2" was my first call for all time-compression and -expansion tasks (now owned by Zynaptiq). But I did a lengthy shootout recently, and the most unobtrusive TCE results of all the "usual suspects" (and some lesser known ones, too) were achieved by iZotope's "Radius". 

The built-in algorithms that come with our DAWs are good enough for the occasional fix, but on a different level and nothing I would use for exposed, complex audio material like a full mix.

... that said, I don't know IRCAM's "TS2" mentioned above.


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## tarantulis (Jul 2, 2020)

Interesting, I'll give that a try as well. Tried Serato Sampler last night and the results were great. However it would be optimal to just have a rugged time stretch option in the DAW where you can visually see where you're extending it to on the grid. For electronica style sampling, where you're constantly reshaping small audio samples, it's just too much of a workflow killer to have to open up a third party app and hope it lines up on the grid...

Ableton's warp feature is great for this. I always thought Logic's timestretch was weak until I compared yesterday...it's actually pretty solid.


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## Sunny Schramm (Jul 2, 2020)

are you sure you´ve actived audiowarp, the "musical"-algorythm and the "pro elastic time"-algo for the track/sample? tried it right now with an sax-loop and cant hear any artefacts or other bad things happen to it. original tempo was 90 and I tried 60 and 120 - sounds all very good to me 🤷‍♂️ 30bpm down is of course sounding kind of different but its also extrem I think and not really a thing you would do with a sound like that. what sounds are YOU trying and how much you wanna slow it down? I only have cubase - would be nice to hear an example and comparison cubase vs logic...


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## tarantulis (Jul 2, 2020)

You're asking if the audio track I'm warping is set to musical as opposed to linear, correct? Or in the Pool?

I'll post some comparisons when I get home.


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## olvra (Jul 2, 2020)

tarantulis said:


> I did it in Ableton, same story.



Ableton Live, Cubase, Studio One, Reaper, FL Studio, Kontakt, Maschine, Traktor... they all use the élastique algorithm from Zplane; you're setting something wrong on Cubase


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## Headlands (Jul 2, 2020)

olvra said:


> Ableton Live, Cubase, Studio One, Reaper, FL Studio, Kontakt, Maschine, Traktor... they all use the élastique algorithm from Zplane; you're setting something wrong on Cubase



That's the weird thing. For whatever reason it's just generally not as good in Cubase, at least in my experience using Studio One, Live, and Reaper, no matter what the setting. Maybe something about the implementation by Steinberg, not sure.


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## pisskeule (Jul 3, 2020)

Well one reason might be that Cubase just cannot detect hitpoints properly. This is simply embarassing...instead of rewriting their flawed code, Steinbug simply adds another parameter to the same old, crappy engine - entirely to no avail of course. It's beyond belief how awful this is. 

Try to time stretch something without warping turned on ( in the project window ), and it won't even be able to snap the part to the grid as quantisation settings would dictate. An absolute pisstake, and it's been like this for YEARS!

They keep having serious quality problems...


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## NDRU (Jul 3, 2020)

It depends on what your are stretching  perhaps.. please leave an example/comparison here for a good discussion. DAW wars are the past.


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## Headlands (Jul 3, 2020)

NDRU said:


> It depends on what your are stretching  perhaps.. please leave an example/comparison here for a good discussion. DAW wars are the past.



Agreed, though I don't think he's trying to start any DAW war, just lamenting the fact that Cubase needs improvement in this department when compared to some others. I have the same experience, and it's been a big complaint on the Cubase forums for years.


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## Rob (Jul 3, 2020)

FWIW here is a comparison between Cubase stretch and TS2, -40 and +40 tempo... Sure, I might have chosen a better test file, but I wanted to see how cymbals and drums reacted to stretching.


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## Will Blackburn (Jul 3, 2020)

Second Serato. They are way way ahead in that area.


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## Sunny Schramm (Jul 3, 2020)

ok, ts2-40 wins here - sounds smooth and clear! you should post that also on the steinberg-forum 

btw: I would never use timestretching in this way...on a whole song.


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## tarantulis (Jul 3, 2020)

Couldnt find the one I did in Live but here's the timestretched sample in Cubase vs Logic for those who are interested


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## Rob (Jul 3, 2020)

Sunny Schramm said:


> ok, ts2-40 wins here - sounds smooth and clear! you should post that also on the steinberg-forum
> 
> btw: I would never use timestretching in this way...on a whole song.


Actually, in this case, I like Cubase version better... I find the image is more stable, and bass firmly at the center.


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## toomanynotes (Jul 4, 2020)

Dietz said:


> For a long time, Prosoniq's "Time Factory 2" was my first call for all time-compression and -expansion tasks (now owned by Zynaptiq). But I did a lengthy shootout recently, and the most unobtrusive TCE results of all the "usual suspects" (and some lesser known ones, too) were achieved by iZotope's "Radius".
> 
> The built-in algorithms that come with our DAWs are good enough for the occasional fix, but on a different level and nothing I would use for exposed, complex audio material like a full mix.
> 
> ... that said, I don't know IRCAM's "TS2" mentioned above.


man you must old, i remember time factory!! ha


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## Dietz (Jul 4, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> man you must old, i remember time factory!! ha


I _AM_ old! :-D


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## toomanynotes (Jul 4, 2020)

Dietz said:


> I _AM_ old! :-D


It's ok, it happens


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## pisskeule (Jul 4, 2020)

I am just glad that I am still too young to remember Time Factory 1.


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## NDRU (Jul 4, 2020)

@tarantulis Have you checked out the wide variety of time stretch tool algorithm in Cubase, there are aplenty. Perhaps you can find the right fit for you


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