# Orb Composer Hexachord 1.5 upgrade



## Rey (Oct 5, 2019)

I just went to orb composer website. I have been using it for awhile and I like it. Now with 1.5 upgrade with lots of nice features is around the corner, its asking certain customers, who didnt pay the full price of 649 euro, didn't become a supporter before the released of v1.0 or didnt just purchase after august 2019, to pay an upgrade fee of 79 to 99 euro.

I have purchased the artist on discount, and upgraded to pro during blackfriday last year, and now I need to pay more money for upgrade-somehow I dont feel being treated the right way now that I am supporting Hexachord Orb Composer and theyre asking certain customer for money.
Just because I purchased it on discount I have to pay for the latest upgrades and others dont?

Why not make it fair and make everyone pays for v1.5 upgrades or just let it be a free upgrade.

What do you guys think?

Their facebooksite:https://www.facebook.com/Hexachords/


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## sin(x) (Oct 5, 2019)

Yeah, that sounds pretty crummy and I can't imagine it not backfiring for them. Dividing your userbase into first and second class seems a bad idea to begin with, but besides that I wouldn't be surprised if there are even legal aspects to this if they didn't clearly state the fact back when you got it.


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## KarlHeinz (Oct 5, 2019)

This is really difficult, even if I dont have any info about it so far.

I went with Orb Composer from the beginning and the special preorder prize for the Artist version was higher then later the sales prizes for the Pro version. So you might say that is the other perspective even if I dont see no black and white here just a not working and still kind of unclear prize policy.

I got a kind of compensation for that (upgrade to Pro) and did some betatesting in the beginning so I am a little bit between the chairs. But my experience was that while these are nice and very engaged guys they dont really listen to their users (for example dont care about any forums) or care much about opinions especially about things like price policies, they just do what they think they should do. I would really recommend if you are personally (not in general) not satisfied with your personal offer just write them a personal email, as I said, nice guys and usually helpful on the personal level. Hope you get how its meant


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## Rey (Oct 5, 2019)

it's at their facebook site to be precise. here's what they said
"1.5 is a paid upgrade to the software unless you were an early supporter and preordered 1.0 last year, or purchased Orb Composer on or after August 15th 2019. Otherwise, there will be an introductory offer of 79€ for the upgrade, then it will go to 99€." 

I think some of the negative feedback comments have been removed by them..hmm.


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## Rey (Oct 5, 2019)

KarlHeinz said:


> This is really difficult, even if I dont have any info about it so far.
> 
> I went with Orb Composer from the beginning and the special preorder prize for the Artist version was higher then later the sales prizes for the Pro version. So you might say that is the other perspective even if I dont see no black and white here just a not working and still kind of unclear prize policy.
> 
> I got a kind of compensation for that (upgrade to Pro) and did some betatesting in the beginning so I am a little bit between the chairs. But my experience was that while these are nice and very engaged guys they dont really listen to their users (for example dont care about any forums) or care much about opinions especially about things like price policies, they just do what they think they should do. I would really recommend if you are personally (not in general) not satisfied with your personal offer just write them a personal email, as I said, nice guys and usually helpful on the personal level. Hope you get how its meant



yeah I feel like they are not staying true to some of their words. Example early on when orb composer was released, they said at their facebook site(which I think the main public interaction spot with their customers other than submitting ticket), that they will never be a discount for a long long time for orb composer.
Three months after 50% off at plugin boutique.....where I purchased it.
Suddenly, a BLACK FRIDAY SALE 2019. I mean wow, that's fast....

I thought I was lucky getting it at way lower price than those who purchase early on or predordered.Only to realized i am the one whos gonna get "screwed" because a sale isnt actually a sale its just a trap to get you in buying the software, and now you gonna have to pay the full price of 649$ like others before me to get the fully functional software. But hey, i am in a better position than those who purchased it at full price but not eligible for the upgrade and have to pay more. Although they may have lowered the full price after august 2018, which is when these people who purchase at full lowered price still also have to pay for upgrades


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## Rey (Oct 5, 2019)

sin(x) said:


> Yeah, that sounds pretty crummy and I can't imagine it not backfiring for them. Dividing your userbase into first and second class seems a bad idea to begin with, but besides that I wouldn't be surprised if there are even legal aspects to this if they didn't clearly state the fact back when you got it.


yeah man its pretty crummy. But since they are the only one in the game with no solid competitor, I think they can pretty much get on their way easily. The new set of features are awesome though, which I think should already be included at the beginning, such as midi editor.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 5, 2019)

I bought the pro version at the pre-order price, so I won't be complaining. It was a bit disappointing how fast the prices dropped from the start. And I did think they were overpriced for what they are. It's a great tool, but not perfect. I've gotten some weird combinations when I change from theme to something else. Can't remember exactly what it was, but it seemed like two different pieces of music. I'm sure if I played with it more, I could have made it work. But still, it was a strange change.


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## Rey (Oct 5, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> I bought the pro version at the pre-order price, so I won't be complaining. It was a bit disappointing how fast the prices dropped from the start. And I did think they were overpriced for what they are. It's a great tool, but not perfect. I've gotten some weird combinations when I change from theme to something else. Can't remember exactly what it was, but it seemed like two different pieces of music. I'm sure if I played with it more, I could have made it work. But still, it was a strange change.


Glad you get a free update!
yeah you are right @dzilizzi changing the sliders, the momentum,intensity and space by a bit might change the overall melodies ,parts and the composition overall. I would try to be very delicate while adjusting the parameters so the outcome changes will be minimal. I really think they should address this issue such more control of which part in one block would be changed if we adjust the paramaters. The current situation is when you adjust one parameter slider of a one chord segment,it will affect the whole block, the melody etc, making it change to a different song. luckily theres the 'undo' button if you dont like the new changes. I would love to see one small changes to a chord segment only affect that segment and not the whole block be it theme, intro and others.
Anyway I have ableton live so it helps a lot it capturing the clips I want and the changes will be captured into other clips.
The upcoming midi editor would also rectify this problem to an extent. Other than that I wish to see more intelligent melodies, and more control over the changes.


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## Rey (Oct 5, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> I bought the pro version at the pre-order price, so I won't be complaining. It was a bit disappointing how fast the prices dropped from the start. And I did think they were overpriced for what they are. It's a great tool, but not perfect. I've gotten some weird combinations when I change from theme to something else. Can't remember exactly what it was, but it seemed like two different pieces of music. I'm sure if I played with it more, I could have made it work. But still, it was a strange change.


Edit:Think I read differently, sorry but yeah intro and theme are supposed to sound different from one another. Usually I only use Theme and Theme(VARiation) or Theme(more intense). The changes between the three will be minimal and transition nicely into one another, unlike the music transition from intro to theme.


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 5, 2019)

I have to disagree with the core of this argument. “Why should I have to pay more just because I got it on sale?”

Because you never paid full price. I don’t know if orb decides to allow the sales price on plugin boutique or if those sales were like App Store sales that kind happen through seasons and algorithms. Either way, look at the needs of the developer. It costs money to make this thing continue. If you want it to continue, yes some of us early adopters have to pony up the cost. This is not a new concept of this age, whether it’s upgrade costs, subscriptions, patreon or whatever. It’s a costly business being a developer and no matter which way they do it, whenever they as for more money, everyone loses their mind.

I’ve seen all these complaints about an upgrade cost and no talk about what this upgrade actually is. It’s said to be 1.5 but it’s so misleading that many think they’re paying for a bug fix. No doubt some are there, but this upgrade adds a full midi editor, and drum sequencer. Those are two pretty massive additions considering how the software has functioned up until this point. It also helps orb be a full standalone app. These extra features were user requested. Not things left out or promised before hand. This software can’t continue if people insist only buying at sales price, and demanding extra features be added for free for eternity. 

Maybe this whole thing damages orb’s reputation with some but it is an impressive tool, and should be judged after the update to see if they’ve lived up to the cost they’re asking.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 5, 2019)

Maybe they should have called it 2.0 instead of 1.5. Would make it seem worth paying for the upgraded version.


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 5, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Maybe they should have called it 2.0 instead of 1.5. Would make it seem worth paying for the upgraded version.



That's what I think. Adding smart melody import, midi editor, drum sequencer, and changing the workflow and design seems like more than just an incremental update that implies only bug fixes. calling it 2.0 would help indicate that its a change in the core of the software. Whether its worth the cost or not, we'll find out.


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## KarlHeinz (Oct 6, 2019)

> I’ve seen all these complaints about an upgrade cost and no talk about what this upgrade actually is. It’s said to be 1.5 but it’s so misleading that many think they’re paying for a bug fix. No doubt some are there, but this upgrade adds a full midi editor, and drum sequencer. Those are two pretty massive additions considering how the software has functioned up until this point. It also helps orb be a full standalone app. These extra features were user requested. Not things left out or promised before hand.



Yes, and I thougt exactly this:



> Maybe they should have called it 2.0 instead of 1.5



As I am not on facebook I dont listen to the communication there and cant judge but apart from that I stand to my post before: their decisions, like with the prizes, are often not communicated very well to the public.

And, sorry, but I am sure no app store can sale half prize if thats not communicated with the develloper, I disagree on that. And it was not one App store it was really the "prize wall" collapsed in a few weeks without any communication on that. And with the prizes going down of course their claim to be "exclusive" (and this was stated on their website in the beginning) vanished in a way.

Still this is something great and the new functions (if working.....) justify a 2.0 and then nobody would have to wonder if this is a payed upgrade.

I am a little sad that they get into a reputation they dont deserve apart of their public communication :-(.


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## KarlHeinz (Oct 6, 2019)

> SO its like saying its ok for these companies to cheat,lie go back or not keeping their words, but when customers get fed up and turn to piracy, oh hey you pirates stop stealing our softwares we devs worked so hard and you should support us.



Rey, I think that goes really to far and is not fair. If you have ever communicated with them on a personal level I dont think you would have posted something like that. I agree with you critic in general (as you can read in my posts before) but they are definitely NOT that kind of company deserving this.


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## Rey (Oct 6, 2019)

KarlHeinz said:


> Yes, and I thougt exactly this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to disagree about this being 2.0. if its 2.0 everyone will be equally asked to pay for the upgrade. but because its 1.5 so only those (I predict a small portion of less 50%) are excused for having to buy the upgrade. It's only been a year and now they asking for a paid upgrade. is this now going to be a yearly upgrade? when I signed in on this I was never told or aware of paid upgrades. I thought it is a one time purchase and at very expensive price and so be it. Maybe after 3-5 year they ask for money I would understand, but one year?


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## Rey (Oct 6, 2019)

KarlHeinz said:


> Rey, I think that goes really to far and is not fair. If you have ever communicated with them on a personal level I dont think you would have posted something like that. I agree with you critic in general (as you can read in my posts before) but they are definitely NOT that kind of company deserving this.


nah man this is just generally speaking. I communicated with them I know they are French. but come on,99euro its now like games microtransaction thing that I would go against


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## KarlHeinz (Oct 6, 2019)

> It's only been a year and now they asking for a paid upgrade



This is not correct, its been a year maybe since you jumped on the train but it all started with 1.0, and that was NOT the "S" version, years ago (I am not sure if three years now or longer but I could look into my emails if important). Now its not only 1.4 BUT inbetween was the change to the S Version which included the VST support, that alone for other companies (if for example you are looking what Izotope is doing since years) would have justified a 2.0 version.

Maybe it really would have been better to make it a 2.0 and let anybody pay for it. I maybe would have grumbled a bit but could have accepted looking at the way their devellopment has gone threw the years. But what they are doing now has, as I already pointed out, two sites: the one is yours and as said before I can understand your dissatisfaction, the other site is the care for their loyal longtime customers who jumped on the train while nobody had known WHERE this would lead and if it would leas somewhere useful anyway. This idea is not born with pulling money out of their customers pockets without any care but just the opposite. Maybe not a good solution, again, but not the intention you assume.


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## Rey (Oct 6, 2019)

whatever it is, im out


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## Rey (Oct 6, 2019)

I figure I might be the only hobbyist here not making money, so I am feeling the pain more. anyway good luck to you guys and next years paid upgrade


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 6, 2019)

Rey said:


> This is just generally speaking:
> this argument of yours is really old. everyone argues hey we devs work freakin hard our ass off and we want your money so you better pay for upgrade or get stuck with a worthless 400-500euros(bought on discount) software you ve been coaxed into buying because its not full version.
> 
> SO its like saying its ok for these companies to cheat,lie go back or not keeping their words, but when customers get fed up and turn to piracy, oh hey you pirates stop stealing our softwares we devs worked so hard and you should support us.
> ...



I have a hard time taking you seriously when bemoan buying a €400 software on sale, not full price, and then call it worthless, but then imply that it’s worth enough to pirate?

I completely understand people not liking paid upgrades. I just had to pay €100 to upgrade izotope software I just bought last year, that suddenly had new releases and the only upgrade plan they offered me was a bundle that includes a product I already have...yet somehow buying those two was cheaper than just upgrading the one I needed. There are many ways when paid upgrades go wrong and it’s understandable to not like it, but hexachords does now seem like it is a large company squeezing money out of a large user base so they can pay for marketing and steal your money.

As previously stated the biggest problem is the lack of communication and missteps in communicating their progress. Putting stuff on sale so soon after release was frustrating but I got what I paid for, and I'm glad if others got in on it too, even if cheaper than me. We got a fully functioning composition tool that did what it said it did. Looking at their Facebook page you can see the requests from users that came in. Vst support, effects support, midi editor, drum sequences. These were not release day promises unfulfilled, these were requests from users who wanted to see more added to the software and the team worked hard to make it happen. Any other company would be smarter in how they label the updates to differentiate functional changes from bug fixes. Again, bad communication. I don’t want to pay and upgrade fee, but for THIS upgrade I understand why. It’s not incremental, it’s added function that was not there before, and was prompted by user request.


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## Rey (Oct 6, 2019)

chocobitz825 said:


> I have a hard time taking you seriously when bemoan buying a €400 software on sale, not full price, and then call it worthless, but then imply that it’s worth enough to pirate?
> 
> I completely understand people not liking paid upgrades. I just had to pay €100 to upgrade izotope software I just bought last year, that suddenly had new releases and the only upgrade plan they offered me was a bundle that includes a product I already have...yet somehow buying those two was cheaper than just upgrading the one I needed. There are many ways when paid upgrades go wrong and it’s understandable to not like it, but hexachords does now seem like it is a large company squeezing money out of a large user base so they can pay for marketing and steal your money.
> 
> As previously stated the biggest problem is the lack of communication and missteps in communicating their progress. Putting stuff on sale so soon after release was frustrating but I got what I paid for, and I'm glad if others got in on it too, even if cheaper than me. We got a fully functioning composition tool that did what it said it did. Looking at their Facebook page you can see the requests from users that came in. Vst support, effects support, midi editor, drum sequences. These were not release day promises unfulfilled, these were requests from users who wanted to see more added to the software and the team worked hard to make it happen. Any other company would be smarter in how they label the updates to differentiate functional changes from bug fixes. Again, bad communication. I don’t want to pay and upgrade fee, but for THIS upgrade I understand why. It’s not incremental, it’s added function that was not there before, and was prompted by user request.


yeah man you are right. everything cost money these days. Good luck to you


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 6, 2019)

Rey said:


> I figure I might be the only hobbyist here not making money, so I am feeling the pain more. anyway good luck to you guys and next years paid upgrade



And I truly understand the pain of the pay to play way these things go, but this is not a business sustained by the limited cash flow of certain types of hobbyists. Your priorities are different and your level of dedication is different as well. Students and professionals are often the target market and some companies do indeed take advantage and try and squeeze more and more money out of users. That is absolutely a thing. For hobbyists, I would say be cautious what you buy into, especially new products, because there is no way to tell how things will go until time goes on, and a product shows how it is managed by the developer.


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## Rey (Oct 6, 2019)

chocobitz825 said:


> I have a hard time taking you seriously when bemoan buying a €400 software on sale, not full price, and then call it worthless, but then imply that it’s worth enough to pirate?
> 
> I completely understand people not liking paid upgrades. I just had to pay €100 to upgrade izotope software I just bought last year, that suddenly had new releases and the only upgrade plan they offered me was a bundle that includes a product I already have...yet somehow buying those two was cheaper than just upgrading the one I needed. There are many ways when paid upgrades go wrong and it’s understandable to not like it, but hexachords does now seem like it is a large company squeezing money out of a large user base so they can pay for marketing and steal your money.
> 
> As previously stated the biggest problem is the lack of communication and missteps in communicating their progress. Putting stuff on sale so soon after release was frustrating but I got what I paid for, and I'm glad if others got in on it too, even if cheaper than me. We got a fully functioning composition tool that did what it said it did. Looking at their Facebook page you can see the requests from users that came in. Vst support, effects support, midi editor, drum sequences. These were not release day promises unfulfilled, these were requests from users who wanted to see more added to the software and the team worked hard to make it happen. Any other company would be smarter in how they label the updates to differentiate functional changes from bug fixes. Again, bad communication. I don’t want to pay and upgrade fee, but for THIS upgrade I understand why. It’s not incremental, it’s added function that was not there before, and was prompted by user request.


yeah man you are right. everything cost money these days. Good luck to you


chocobitz825 said:


> And I truly understand the pain of the pay to play way these things go, but this is not a business sustained by the limited cash flow of certain types of hobbyists. Your priorities are different and your level of dedication is different as well. Students and professionals are often the target market and some companies do indeed take advantage and try and squeeze more and more money out of users. That is absolutely a thing. For hobbyists, I would say be cautious what you buy into, especially new products, because there is no way to tell how things will go until time goes on, and a product shows how it is managed by the developer.


best to stay away from purchasing I guess if you are a hobbyist. maybe buy a piano and play at home


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## davidson (Oct 6, 2019)

Rey said:


> yeah man you are right. everything cost money these days. Good luck to you
> 
> best to stay away from purchasing I guess if you are a hobbyist. maybe buy a piano and play at home



Or spend that money on some music theory books / tutorials and blow orbs dodgy AI out of the water. Go team humans!


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 6, 2019)

davidson said:


> Or spend that money on some music theory books / tutorials and blow orbs dodgy AI out of the water. Go team humans!



No one is paying me for my music theory education =P


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## Rey (Oct 6, 2019)

davidson said:


> Or spend that money on some music theory books / tutorials and blow orbs dodgy AI out of the water. Go team humans!


great idea. unfortunately writers block are always there. these tools helps a ton. but asking money every year for upgrade is going to be tiresome for some


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## David Cuny (Oct 6, 2019)

Rey said:


> "1.5 is a paid upgrade to the software unless you were an early supporter and preordered 1.0 last year, or purchased Orb Composer on or after August 15th 2019. Otherwise, there will be an introductory offer of 79€ for the upgrade, then it will go to 99€."


You purchased an upgrade, with _no_ caveats at the time of purchase?

Then _everyone_ who purchased that version needs to be eligible for the same treatment.

Otherwise, you were sold a different product (one not eligible for upgrade) than what was advertised, and that's fraud.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 6, 2019)

I don't remember them saying free lifetime upgrades. So I think fraud is a bit of a reach.


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 6, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> I don't remember them saying free lifetime upgrades. So I think fraud is a bit of a reach.



This is the problem with rapid updates in the digital age. Companies are not always clear or consistent, and consumers are often assuming a one time purchase means they’ll have upgrades for forever.

One could say it’s a matter of format change, but I remember when you used to buy new CDs of software every year to get upgrades and bug fixes for certain software. I’ve seen current even more vague upgrade policies (looking at you waves!).

If you got a functioning product, you got what you paid for. Did the value match the cost? Everyone’s opinion varies there I’m sure. So maybe this is a good time for review. I’ll give an opinion after I upgrade, but maybe if some people were totally unsatisfied with the product up until now, maybe this is a sign to step away from the whole thing, and waste no more money on it.


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 7, 2019)

Just to further this conversation. Please check their recent videos regarding the update.









Hexachords


Hexachords® was created in France in 2015 after many years of musical development. A hexachord is a six-note series, as exhibited in a scale or tone row. Amo...




www.youtube.com





It becomes incredibly clear how significant an update this is in terms of function. Whether it's worth it to people is, again, a personal preference, but the amount of work needed to make these many changes is significant.


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## David Cuny (Oct 7, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> I don't remember them saying free lifetime upgrades. So I think fraud is a bit of a reach.


There's _no_ obligation for them to provide upgrades at all, and certainly not a lifetime supply of upgrades.

But if the seller sells a _version_ of a product, then treats equivalent versions differently based on some arbitrary criteria (in this case, the purchase date), then clearly the products are _not_ equivalent.

It's a reasonable expectation that all purchasers of a particular version would be treated equivalently, even if it's for something that's not available at the time of sale.

It would be different if the seller making the offer only to people who pre-ordered. But it appears the seller is also included people who ordered before an arbitrary cut-off date. That's not really defensible.

Again, there are a lot of "ifs" here.


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 7, 2019)

David Cuny said:


> There's _no_ obligation for them to provide upgrades at all, and certainly not a lifetime supply of upgrades.
> 
> But if the seller sells a _version_ of a product, then treats equivalent versions differently based on some arbitrary criteria (in this case, the purchase date), then clearly the products are _not_ equivalent.
> 
> ...




in every case of paid updates, there is an arbitrary cutoff date. What other option would there be? 

In the case of Orb, to say all people who bought after 1.4.5 get the upgrade is a bit broad since that update has been out for a while, and the update prior to it wasn't out that long if I recall, because of a bunch of bug fixes. Basing it off of version number seems unrealistic here. 

It seems generous to say if you bought the software in the last 2-3 months, there's no upgrade cost.


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## KarlHeinz (Oct 7, 2019)

Sigh.... again something a little "Orb Composer" strange: whole website is gone apart from start screen saying "Orb Composer 1.5 is coming soon". So no login possible, nothing. Maybe they change the whole structure in the background, after what happened with reason 11 maybe not a very good idea to release a new major version and changing evrything at the same time, I hope that update/upgrade is really coming soon and website back....


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 7, 2019)

KarlHeinz said:


> Sigh.... again something a little "Orb Composer" strange: whole website is gone apart from start screen saying "Orb Composer 1.5 is coming soon". So no login possible, nothing. Maybe they change the whole structure in the background, after what happened with reason 11 maybe not a very good idea to release a new major version and changing evrything at the same time, I hope that update/upgrade is really coming soon and website back....



I would assume with the new functionality added, it means a major revamp of the site. I can only assume that there’s a schedule in place with whoever handles the site.


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## Holden Sandman (Oct 7, 2019)

KarlHeinz said:


> Sigh.... again something a little "Orb Composer" strange: whole website is gone apart from start screen saying "Orb Composer 1.5 is coming soon". So no login possible, nothing. Maybe they change the whole structure in the background, after what happened with reason 11 maybe not a very good idea to release a new major version and changing evrything at the same time, I hope that update/upgrade is really coming soon and website back....



It's a bit odd. Also how do existing customers log in to download their products, updates or whatever else?


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 7, 2019)

Holden Sandman said:


> It's a bit odd. Also how do existing customers log in to download their products, updates or whatever else?


I would assume they’ve added an upgrade feature to the backend for current users and you definitely don’t want people logging in while that system change is being done. Patience is our only option right now.


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## Holden Sandman (Oct 7, 2019)

Looks like it's been released.


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## Holden Sandman (Oct 7, 2019)

Holden Sandman said:


> Looks like it's been released.



... and gone again


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 7, 2019)

there's an option to subscribe to a mailing list to be notified of its release. To my knowledge that notice has not gone out yet.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 7, 2019)

David Cuny said:


> There's _no_ obligation for them to provide upgrades at all, and certainly not a lifetime supply of upgrades.
> 
> But if the seller sells a _version_ of a product, then treats equivalent versions differently based on some arbitrary criteria (in this case, the purchase date), then clearly the products are _not_ equivalent.
> 
> ...


Still not fraud. May not be good customer support, but not fraud. 

I actually can see how this works. They are trying to be nice to the early adapters who took a chance the product wouldn't work (and some who paid a whole lot more because they didn't preorder) And they are giving it to recent purchasers who wouldn't have purchased if they knew the new version was coming out. Steinberg does this every year with their updates. They are free to anyone who registers their software after a certain date. i've actually bought and waited until after they announce to register, just to get the free upgrade.


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## David Cuny (Oct 7, 2019)

chocobitz825 said:


> It seems generous to say if you bought the software in the last 2-3 months, there's no upgrade cost.


Yes, it _is_ generous.

There's often gaps between industry practice and what's legal.

Sometimes bridging that gap brings additional benefits to the consumer.

But sometimes, it's why we don't get to have nice things anymore.

IANAL, even on the internet.


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## Rey (Oct 7, 2019)

David Cuny said:


> It would be different if the seller making the offer only to people who pre-ordered. But it appears the seller is also included people who ordered before an arbitrary cut-off date. That's not really defensible.
> 
> Again, there are a lot of "ifs" here.



Thank you for the deep insight there @David Cuny . Really opened up my eyes.:emoji_astonished:

Also, I might have left out another group of orb composer users who were also given free update, and exluded from having to pay upgrade.Here's what they say

https://www.facebook.com/Hexachords/ (Hexachords) the free upgrade only if you preordered it or bought it with the old price (649€) and purchased before August 2018.

So that includes alot of people even those who didnt preordered but bought it after released, that get free updates. While those who purchased between August 2018 and August 2019 are all required to pay for upgrades.


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## damcry (Oct 7, 2019)

Has anyone received their email announcing the upgrade and how the pricing works ? Because me, still nothing ... ?


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## dzilizzi (Oct 7, 2019)

So I just checked and the email came this morning. It does show as a separate product and not as an upgrade in my account. So it looks like they are thinking of it as not really a bug fix upgrade but as a new version.


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 7, 2019)

I just got over the upgrade drama and bought the thing. It’s all it was before, but significantly faster, with much better options for importing and changing melody and harmony. No doubt there are still bugs, but it’s a massive improvement in usability. I think it was for the cost. Just my two cents though.


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## KarlHeinz (Oct 7, 2019)

Seems they are really manually revising the accounts.

I got two emails about new version ready for download (I got one NFR for betatesting and an upgrade from Artist to Pro for preordering Artist for the full price), downloaded, still 1.4 :-(.

Write to support, they told me new version will be there till the evening and wrote me another mail when it was really there.

Now I got the Artist upgraded to 1.5, the NFR upgraded to 1.5 but NOT the "regular" PRO. I am fine with this but it shows that they REALLY care about there customers and want to give evrybody the best as possible while still trying to be fair to evrybody.

I just had a quick look and I am sure there will be some bugs (first for me: reason rack vst3 is loading but no sound coming out) but this is REALLY more a 2.0 then a 1.5, so much NEW functionallity I am only be a bit scared if this will really work without to many crashes but on first look this is really an amazin upgrade


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## X-Bassist (Oct 7, 2019)

Rey said:


> Thank you for the deep insight there @David Cuny . Really opened up my eyes.:emoji_astonished:
> 
> Also, I might have left out another group of orb composer users who were also given free update, and exluded from having to pay upgrade.Here's what they say
> 
> ...



Just a suggestion, but this seems like one piece of software that if you don’t really need the upgrade, just wait. Yes, all those people you mentioned will get the 1.5 upgrade... but that’s it. As soon as 2.0 hits, everyone is on the same playing field. And my guess is as the base who use the program grow, so will the deals on upgrades. You may eventually find that the 2.0 or 2.5 upgrade is cheaper than the 1.5 is now. That’s if something else better doesn’t release before then.

For me this kind of AI software takes a long time to mature. In a few years they will have many more competitors (who are working “in the wings” as we speak) and may do a better job than Orb.I would seriously consider buying Orb if I heard something better than what I can write myself on an average day, but I have yet to hear it. Programming elevator music may not be tough, but that’s not the work I’m trying to do. Putting real emotion into a piece is not really what a programmer does best. 

That’s why I’m betting when a good composer or orchestrator starts to work with these programs, to make rules and judgements about what sounds good and what doesn’t (rather than sticking music theory and some examples into a program) is when these things will really take off. There needs to be some serious music talent put into it to get anything decent out of it (that really goes for sample libraries as well).

And I realize Orb has had a long ramp up, but eventually they could be like izotope bringing out a new version every year. Perhaps better to wait until they have all their stuff together and have some handle on customer service and communications (yes, this should be 2.0) .

Or someone else decides to release there version and beats them to the punch.


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## Holden Sandman (Oct 7, 2019)

I got 1.5. There's a few small problems, for example *you cant open projects made in earlier versions!*

If you have projects from 1.4.5 you won't be able to use them until Hexachords release some file conversion tool. 

Well the obvious solution to that is just use 1.4.5 right? *No, because 1.4.5 can't be registered anymore with your old serial number.* 

Nobody warned us that previous projects would become unusable or that the registration system would change to a point you can't even keep an old version to be on the safe side.

Hexachords is a strange company.


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## KarlHeinz (Oct 7, 2019)

> Well the obvious solution to that is just use 1.4.5 right? *No, because 1.4.5 can't be registered anymore with your old serial number.*



This is strange, I agree, I sent this to the support even if I am actually not personally affected but this has to be some kind of bug it could not be that with your payed 1.4 license you could no longer open your 1.4 projects (if I got this right).


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## Holden Sandman (Oct 7, 2019)

KarlHeinz said:


> This is strange, I agree, I sent this to the support even if I am actually not personally affected but this has to be some kind of bug it could not be that with your payed 1.4 license you could no longer open your 1.4 projects (if I got this right).



You can't open older projects because they completely changed the file format and it's not backward compatible. You can't re-use 1.4.5 because they changed the registration process and installing 1.5 removes the system stored serial for 1.4.5 or earlier versions.


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 7, 2019)

Holden Sandman said:


> You can't open older projects because they completely changed the file format and it's not backward compatible.


 Again why a 1.5 upgrade title is misleading. Also a bit surprised they didn’t test the serial key issue. Luckily I had no projects that need changing but thats a huge mistake.


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## Holden Sandman (Oct 7, 2019)

With all the strangeness of Hexachords as a company and their weird way of treating customers my conclusion on 1.5 is that it's pretty slick. Has loads of improvements. However the engine still doesn't know how to end a composition, you're just left hanging, the music cut off with no proper conclusion.

The interface is nicer. It's a mixed bag. They should have sorted out backward compatibility prior to releasing and by now the software should know how to finish a piece of music.

Edit: After 6 hours of using it today I just find the software frustrating to use.

I gave the 1.5 upgrade a 6 out of 10 originally, now I give it 2 out of 10.

If you haven't bought into Orb Composer yet, save the money and buy a year subscription to Aiva.


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## Rey (Oct 7, 2019)

Holden Sandman said:


> With all the strangeness of Hexachords as a company and their weird way of treating customers my conclusion on 1.5 is that it's pretty slick. Has loads of improvements. However the engine still doesn't know how to end a composition, you're just left hanging, the music cut off with no proper conclusion.
> 
> It is much better now for electronic music and the interface is nicer. It's a mixed bag. They should have sorted out backward compatibility prior to releasing and by now the software should know how to finish a piece of music.
> 
> I give the 1.5 upgrade a 6 out of 10.



Any improvement in terms of AI music composition, does the melodies now sound better than 1.4?


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 7, 2019)

Rey said:


> Any improvement in terms of AI music composition, does the melodies now sound better than 1.4?



that's super subjective. Its smarter about how it makes the melodies, the tempo-based alterations are a nice feature and user melodies from imported midi are a thing too. I'd say its as good as before, but now you can immediately edit a melody in the editor when you find something close, or just want to put something in yourself.


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## Holden Sandman (Oct 7, 2019)

Rey said:


> Any improvement in terms of AI music composition, does the melodies now sound better than 1.4?



At first I thought it was better, now after six hours using it I would say it's the same or maybe worse.


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 7, 2019)

Holden Sandman said:


> At first I thought it was better, now after six hours using it I would say it's the same or maybe worse.



It doesn’t really fundamentally change what orb does at all. Just how you go about doing it. The change takes some adjusting and I think some will still walk away feeling it’s weak points. I’m able to fly through composition on this and orchestral/strings have pretty much mostly been its selling point. That part is still pretty strong, and actually works well for other genres if you just change the instruments.

I have to say overall, it’s a win for me. It should have been a 2.0 update, and I hope they’ll work next on the backend and improve the engine’s ability to produce other genres.


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## KarlHeinz (Oct 8, 2019)

Holden: got an answer from support already in case of older projects, 1.4 not working:

- The 1.4 is still useable, the version and serial is still in your account and you can use it

So maybe you get something wrong, I did the test for myself, 1.4 is still running, it DOES not get uninstalled automatically (I even have an older version before the "S" on my pc), it DOES not ask for another serial, so here is something definitely wrong on your site

- older projects cant be open at the moment, this is right, but they are working on a fix for this ASAP

In case of melodies I think the biggest advantage is the way they now make a whole song out of your melody you can import as midi, they call this "smart melody harmonizer" and for me the video here:



is really amazing. Together with the midi editing this opens up lots of possibilities.

As there are so many really new added functionallity I will take weeks to go threw it and I am very happy that this time they added videos on the channel where the above video is to all of this new functions so that has improved to. There is no complete user manual as far as I have looked but a starting guide for the 1.5 so I think I will be really busy the next weeks with this


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## Holden Sandman (Oct 8, 2019)

KarlHeinz said:


> Holden: got an answer from support already in case of older projects, 1.4 not working:
> 
> - The 1.4 is still useable, the version and serial is still in your account and you can use it
> 
> So maybe you get something wrong, I did the test for myself, 1.4 is still running, it DOES not get uninstalled automatically (I even have an older version before the "S" on my pc), it DOES not ask for another serial, so here is something definitely wrong on your site



It's different on a Mac. You can't have two different versions 1.4.5 and 1.5 registered at the same time. This is the response I got from Hexachords (who have provided me access to a version of 1.4 to solve the issue)



> normally the 1.5 upgrade replace the old 1.4, it’s normal.


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## KarlHeinz (Oct 8, 2019)

Oh, sorry, as I am on win did not know that, on win its no problem to have as many old version as you like.


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## Rey (Oct 8, 2019)

X-Bassist said:


> Just a suggestion, but this seems like one piece of software that if you don’t really need the upgrade, just wait. Yes, all those people you mentioned will get the 1.5 upgrade... but that’s it. As soon as 2.0 hits, everyone is on the same playing field. And my guess is as the base who use the program grow, so will the deals on upgrades. You may eventually find that the 2.0 or 2.5 upgrade is cheaper than the 1.5 is now. That’s if something else better doesn’t release before then.
> 
> For me this kind of AI software takes a long time to mature. In a few years they will have many more competitors (who are working “in the wings” as we speak) and may do a better job than Orb.I would seriously consider buying Orb if I heard something better than what I can write myself on an average day, but I have yet to hear it. Programming elevator music may not be tough, but that’s not the work I’m trying to do. Putting real emotion into a piece is not really what a programmer does best.
> 
> ...



hey man, thanks for the heads up. yeah definitely the price might be cheaper or they ll put it on sale or something or abolished it althogether and replace with bundles of future upgrades for those who haven't upgraded. who knows.'
interested to know of those still working in the wing to put their cards on the table. exciting times!


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## Rey (Oct 8, 2019)

but now I m stuck behind $100 pay wall until I can upgrade


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## Rey (Oct 8, 2019)

KarlHeinz said:


> In case of melodies I think the biggest advantage is the way they now make a whole song out of your melody you can import as midi, they call this "smart melody harmonizer" and for me the video here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




have you tried with any midi files? is it only for single channel/track midi melody files, or does it work with any midi files for example pop music midi files with all the rhythms and drums, and intelligently turn it into an orchestral piece?


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## KarlHeinz (Oct 8, 2019)

No, I have not tried I just stuck in all this new functions, but I think it is for melodies only.


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## Steelfinger (Oct 9, 2019)

Hi people,

I am new member here.

I have found the way to open old files from Orb Composer 1.4.5 in the new version 1.5.0 (using Windows). I have simply changed file extensions from (older) ".oc" to (new) ".oc15" and now I can open all the older files from the (older) version 1.4.5 in the new version 1.5.0...


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## Victorg (Oct 9, 2019)

Hi everyone. I'm a new member.

I think they're free to do whatever they want but at this point in development I would have prioritized building brand loyalty over making a quick buck, I think this might backfire whenever they have more competitors.

I personally feel a bit sour after being patient with the company and waiting for them to fix some serious bugs, performance and functionality issues before making me pay again after 8 months. But as I said, I don't think it's totally unfair, it's their company, their product and they choose whatever price policy they want.

This move made me rethink my workflow and I realized I don't use Orb all that much anyway, so I opted to put my license for sale. check out this post if you're interested. I still think it has a lot of potential but unfortunately they lost me.





__





For Sale - SOLD - Selling my Orb Composer Pro S 1.45 license - 125€


Hi, after they released Orb 1.5 I found myself behind a 79€ paywall to upgrade and I thought I don't use it enough as to justify the expense so I'm selling my license. I'm selling it at a discount so you can upgrade straight away to 1.5 and still be way below their asking price. I would accept...




vi-control.net


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## KarlHeinz (Oct 9, 2019)

> I have found the way to open old files from Orb Composer 1.4.5 in the new version 1.5.0 (using Windows). I have simply changed file extensions from (older) ".oc" to (new) ".oc15" and now I can open all the older files from the (older) version 1.4.5 in the new version 1.5.0...



Got a quick hint from support that this is NOT A GOOD IDEA ! Project will crash soon when you change anything in the project, better wait for the fix which is in work at the moment and will come ASAP


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## Steelfinger (Oct 9, 2019)

Hallo Karl-Heinz, 

danke für die Info! 

(Thanks for the information!)


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## Kenjoe (Oct 14, 2019)

Hello. I am new member. Anyone using Orb Composer 1.5 have problems with Solo Violin and Solo Cello? when I drop them in there is no sound playing


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## Holden Sandman (Oct 14, 2019)

Kenjoe said:


> Hello. I am new member. Anyone using Orb Composer 1.5 have problems with Solo Violin and Solo Cello? when I drop them in there is no sound playing



Have you got all your articulations set up?


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## Kenjoe (Oct 14, 2019)

Holden Sandman said:


> Have you got all your articulations set up?



when I drag either solo violin or solo viola into the theme block, and double click to create melodies for either section, the bar came out blue in color and articulation set as "perc". Tried changing articulation but crash after one to three changes. The orb piano are not playing any sound either, and only one "universal" box to drag in vst in there. Is yours working with sounds?


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## Holden Sandman (Oct 14, 2019)

Kenjoe said:


> when I drag either solo violin or solo viola into the theme block, and double click to create melodies for either section, the bar came out blue in color and articulation set as "perc". Tried changing articulation but crash after one to three changes. The orb piano are not playing any sound either, and only one "universal" box to drag in vst in there. Is yours working with sounds?



Orb Composer 1.5 still has a lot of bugs, best thing to do is contact their support team.


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## Symphonic-Explorer (Oct 25, 2019)

Rey said:


> Three months after 50% off at plugin boutique.....where I purchased it.
> Suddenly, a BLACK FRIDAY SALE 2019. I mean wow, that's fast....




You seem to be suggesting that Orb Composer is going to be available at a reduced cost, again, during the sale you specify. Is it more of a wishful suggestion, or is it based on developer or retailer declaration?


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## Holden Sandman (Oct 29, 2019)

If I was to speculate, I would not be surprised to see Orb Composer discounted for Black Friday or some other reason around that time.


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## Symphonic-Explorer (Oct 30, 2019)

There is a reference on another post, either on VI Control or KVR-Audio, to Orb Composer previously indulging in such seasonal sale. I guess there's no reason why they shouldn't do it again?


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## Victorg (Nov 25, 2019)

It actually went on sale for Black Friday, and as much as 50% off. I don't know who's deciding the pricing policy on Hexacords team but as a former customer I feel I've being tricked a bit to the point I sold my licence after being fed up with the update paywall. But that's just me having a tantrum :D

For those who still don't own a licence this is great news


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## Holden Sandman (Nov 25, 2019)

Victorg said:


> For those who still don't own a licence this is great news



Great news if you want terribly buggy software with almost zero support and a strictly run Discord server that has more rules than could be counted on two hands. You literally get banned for asking for help from the company on it's Discord server.


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## Victorg (Nov 25, 2019)

Holden Sandman said:


> Great news if you want terribly buggy software with almost zero support and a strictly run Discord server that has more rules than could be counted on two hands. You literally get banned for asking for help from the company on it's Discord server.



Hahaha, fair point. Never tried to use Discord but from their ticketing system I got the impression they weren't too much into fostering customer loyalty. But that's just my impression. I opted out recently and sold my licence and haven't looked back.


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## Holden Sandman (Feb 14, 2020)

The Orb Composer Discord has disappeared. Now one has to wonder if this product is about to become abandonware.


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## Victorg (Feb 14, 2020)

I wouldn't be surprised now they have serious competition with initiatives like AWS DeepComposer and such... I hope not though, it showed potential.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 24, 2020)

Well darn it. I don't have a copy of the update that I can see. Last version I have is 1.45. 

It is still available at Plugin Boutique but I don't think owning it already will let you download it from there.


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## ProfoundSilence (Feb 24, 2020)

well sorry to see its possibility become abandonware. Not my kind of product, but I dont wish for anyone to lose money. 

your product is still activated though right?


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## Rey (Feb 24, 2020)

Victorg said:


> I wouldn't be surprised now they have serious competition with initiatives like AWS DeepComposer and such... I hope not though, it showed potential.



I dont think aws composer looks really fun...but tats just be..orb composer has lots of potential its already creating good music although not excellent, but the potential is there....I wonder why they dont just keep improving it.


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## Rey (Feb 24, 2020)

if anything It had never occurred to me for once that its going to get abandoned....if it may happen maybe 5 years more down the road, but this early? its been like 1 or 2 years only


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## Rey (Feb 24, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Well darn it. I don't have a copy of the update that I can see. Last version I have is 1.45.
> 
> It is still available at Plugin Boutique but I don't think owning it already will let you download it from there.


i would say keep the 1.45. as it creates more steady/reliable tunes, although not as complicated and customizable like 1.5. i would keep both 1.45 and 1.5 as separate apps. i have 1.45 but 1.5 is just a demo


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## dzilizzi (Feb 24, 2020)

I will keep a copy like I usually do. The fact that it is still for sale and needs to call home to authorize makes me hope there's just a temporary problem with the site. 

It's been useful as a learning tool for me as I tend to do stuff like forget orchestral instruments generally don't play chords and have limited ranges.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 24, 2020)

Okay, the website seems to be back, though there are still some loading problems. Hopefully they get it all fixed soon.

Okay, it is down again. Makes me think there is a problem with the site? They are based in France, so their time is different. And I'm sure it isn't his full time business.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 25, 2020)

It is back up this morning. I was able to download the 1.5. I will have to give it a try. Looking forward to seeing what's new. 

Not abandoned yet I guess.


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## Rey (Mar 15, 2020)

Just checking in, I feel like updating to 1.5, anyone has asked them if their continuing to update their software, so far no new news in 2020


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## chocobitz825 (Mar 15, 2020)

Rey said:


> Just checking in, I feel like updating to 1.5, anyone has asked them if their continuing to update their software, so far no new news in 2020



looks like they’ve changed directions


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## dzilizzi (Mar 15, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> looks like they’ve changed directions



Interesting. Though if they are competing with Captain Chord or whatever it's called, they will have to lower their price.


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## KarlHeinz (Mar 15, 2020)

This really looks interesting, as usual with Orb Composer really strange that there is nothing about it so far if they want to publish it tomorrow. Agree with competition with Captain Chords with meanwhile has really made a big devellopment over the last year or so, especially their melody generator. And it really works well all together.


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## Rey (Mar 16, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> looks like they’ve changed directions





chocobitz825 said:


> looks like they’ve changed directions



I hope they keep upgrading and bring orb composer pro 2 soon. those are what users actually want and have no competition in the market so far. especially for orchestral.
abit suprised with this. why dont they make arpegiios/ostinato for orchestral?
anyway thanks @chocobitz825 for sharing.


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## Rey (Mar 16, 2020)

in any case, its good the company continues making stuffs. was sceptical of rumors in here about abandoware warnings, but I think we should be in good position now. might grab the updates once they post some updates and news on orb composer.


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## chocobitz825 (Mar 16, 2020)

Rey said:


> in any case, its good the company continues making stuffs. was sceptical of rumors in here about abandoware warnings, but I think we should be in good position now. might grab the updates once they post some updates and news on orb composer.



the truth is, they need support. I doubt orb composer was profitable for them and people have to invest if they want these things to grow. It’s a risk, and they are not a perfect company, but if you believe in their tech and can afford the risk of investing in them, i’d recommend you do so. If this suite is another product and comes at a cost for previous owners I’ll still consider supporting them.


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## Rey (Mar 16, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Interesting. Though if they are competing with Captain Chord or whatever it's called, they will have to lower their price.


They said on youtube comments theres a special price for orb composer owners! hope we get it at a very reasonable price!


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## Rey (Mar 16, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> the truth is, they need support. I doubt orb composer was profitable for them and people have to invest if they want these things to grow. It’s a risk, and they are not a perfect company, but if you believe in their tech and can afford the risk of investing in them, i’d recommend you do so. If this suite is another product and comes at a cost for previous owners I’ll still consider supporting them.


id love to continue to support them. I really like orb composer pro as I am using it for my orchestral sketches. I hope they continue with development and more open with user feebacks/comments etc. Personally I think the real reason orb composer if not so successful profitable-wise as you say, is due to high price. $400-$500 in the beginning was a bit too steep of a price, but I took the plunge anyway because i like AI-powered composition to help/assist me. For regular peeps $400-500 is the cost of 1 or 2 orchestral libraries. But I saw some sale now on orb composer pro, just going for about $250....now that should sell more...at pluginboutique


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## Rey (Mar 16, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> well sorry to see its possibility become abandonware. Not my kind of product, but I dont wish for anyone to lose money.
> 
> your product is still activated though right?


You dont ever have toworry about activatioN, if you just,purchase, "N"


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## Holden Sandman (Mar 16, 2020)

Hand money to a company that releases products then won't release bug fixes and abandons the user base? No thanks.


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## chocobitz825 (Mar 16, 2020)

Holden Sandman said:


> Hand money to a company that releases products then won't release bug fixes and abandons the user base? No thanks.



my understanding is that its a rather small team, and I understand the apprehension. The last few updates they did were pretty significant but they did take time. Is it abandonware? not yet, but without support and the ability to hire more people to help them, it absolutely is likely to become that. At this point, I would say you have to approach this like a kickstarter...theres no knowing how far it will go, but if you just want to support the technology, orb composer is not a bad idea. I've had some great experiences with it in orchestral work.


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## Holden Sandman (Mar 16, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> orb composer is not a bad idea. I've had some great experiences with it in orchestral work.



Orb Composer is a great idea, but it needs bug fixes and updates. Remember how we paid for the 1.5 upgrade and couldn't open older files? That still hasn't been fixed.

There is no way that I am going to give this company another cent until they support what they have released. I have two support tickets that haven't been answered. Small company or not, they need some serious attitude readjustment when it comes to customer service.


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## Rey (Mar 16, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> my understanding is that its a rather small team, and I understand the apprehension. The last few updates they did were pretty significant but they did take time. Is it abandonware? not yet, but without support and the ability to hire more people to help them, it absolutely is likely to become that. At this point, I would say you have to approach this like a kickstarter...theres no knowing how far it will go, but if you just want to support the technology, orb composer is not a bad idea. I've had some great experiences with it in orchestral work.



who knows, maybe later they ll combine orb composer and orb suite into one?


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## chocobitz825 (Mar 16, 2020)

Rey said:


> who knows, maybe later they ll combine orb composer and orb suite into one?



if they’re compatible and operate well together that’d be great. I always worry when a company does too much and throws incompatible elements/builds together.


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## KarlHeinz (Mar 16, 2020)

> operate well together that’d be great


Yes I am really curious how this will work in the Orb Composer version. Mixed in key took nearly 2 years till they got a real good (windows, dont know how long the mac version was already out before) version out with constantly improving especially in the last year and now finally finished the plugs with a drum plug.

So this will be a real interesting comparision.


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## Rey (Mar 17, 2020)

Orb suite is out now at 99euro. anyone received their discount or coupon yet?


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## KarlHeinz (Mar 17, 2020)

No, I was wondering that too, at the moment it seems there is no discount, they seem to see this as complete separate product. But I will definitely not pay full prize and then see it on pluginboutique (or wherever) for 50 % off in two weeks.....

At least the tryout worked for me on first look (only installed and loaded any plug without trying out much)


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## dzilizzi (Mar 17, 2020)

I haven't seen an email or anything yet. But I may be missing it or it may be in the spam folder.


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## damcry (Mar 18, 2020)

Nothing received yet.
But not surprised, each time they make an announcement, it’s the same thing , I receive it either very late or never. .....


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## KarlHeinz (Mar 18, 2020)

Mail with coupon code is out now. Get 20% off for 15 days. Dont think the coupon is any specific (at least not in my case) so maybe someone can tell if there are other mails out.


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## dzilizzi (Mar 18, 2020)

I have a $79 coupon. Well, $20 off.


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## Rey (Mar 18, 2020)

good price for orb composer user. wish theres also a sale for their orb 1.5 upgrade....still waiting for it


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## dzilizzi (Mar 18, 2020)

Actually, looking at Captain Chords - for the whole set, chords, melody, beat (basic drums), play (allows you to used your computer keyboard to play) and deep (bass), it is normally $129 and on sale for $99. 

Orb has Melody, Chords, Bass, Arp, and a synth for $99 or $79 for the upgrade. 

I have AD2, EZDrummer2 and SD3. Drums are not needed. The rest might be worth trying if I can export midi. I just wish one of these worked in ProTools. They never do.


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## KarlHeinz (Mar 18, 2020)

dzilizzi: I really recommend to try out both and compare if you are interested.

No idea which are the restrictions of the OC plugins tryout so far, I had only short time yesterday to install and try out all 4 plugins on a simple 4 bar progression and can only say it seem to work in my daw.

There are lots of things to bear in mind (I am sure Mixed in key has already investigated more in the devellopment of Captain plugins then Orb Composer - looking from the past - maybe ever will, on the other hand Captain plugins is very focussed on the "modern" "composer", the "yeah man" kind  ), but one general difference seems obvious even if the plugins look veeeeery (I wont go father with this) similiar - if you look on the chords window and the midi drag and drop button as just one example - and this is that Captain plugins offers you to mix lots of different (mostly modern) presets on different levels which in the end gives you an endless quantity of options while Orb Composer, as in the other apps, uses a generative approach (density, complexity etc.).

Its not that easy cause the melody generation in Captain Melody uses generative aspects too (and is one of the best I have seen so far with lots of devellopment gone into it especiall in the last year) but I think the different approach for the whole app is obvious.

If I could be sure that OC will investigate as much in devellopment as Mixed in key it would be an easier decision but I think doubt is entitled. They had that wonderful innovative idea with the Mood presets and then: never ever updated with new presets threw all the devellopment and apps, sigh.....

But you really have to compare for yourself.


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## Rey (Mar 18, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Actually, looking at Captain Chords - for the whole set, chords, melody, beat (basic drums), play (allows you to used your computer keyboard to play) and deep (bass), it is normally $129 and on sale for $99.
> 
> Orb has Melody, Chords, Bass, Arp, and a synth for $99 or $79 for the upgrade.
> 
> I have AD2, EZDrummer2 and SD3. Drums are not needed. The rest might be worth trying if I can export midi. I just wish one of these worked in ProTools. They never do.


actually I think I do need a drum AI. I am weak at drums


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## dzilizzi (Mar 18, 2020)

Rey said:


> actually I think I do need a drum AI. I am weak at drums


That's why I use AD2 or EZDrummer. I'm not yet comfortable with SD3. Mostly I use AD2 because I have so many kits and midi for it.


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## dzilizzi (Mar 18, 2020)

KarlHeinz said:


> dzilizzi: I really recommend to try out both and compare if you are interested.
> 
> No idea which are the restrictions of the OC plugins tryout so far, I had only short time yesterday to install and try out all 4 plugins on a simple 4 bar progression and can only say it seem to work in my daw.
> 
> ...


Truthfully, I'm not sure any of them help with my music. I do mostly pop/rock. Though I've been trying my hand at more orchestral in the last couple years. And? My pop/rock songs mostly start with a melody and lyrics. I just start having problems when it comes to the accompaniment that never matches what I hear in my head. And none of these really help much. They tend to be made for those who start with a chord progressions.


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## Holden Sandman (Mar 19, 2020)

I've downloaded the demo and taken Orb Producer Suite for a run through, Captain Plugins is a much better option and has real support. I'll give Orb Producer Suite a miss, even at $79


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## KarlHeinz (Mar 19, 2020)

> has real support



Sure a good point sadly. They even have a direkt request included in the app and have often included the requests and answered directly. These points are really a pity cause in general I still like the OC stuff from the fundamental idea :-(


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## Rey (Mar 19, 2020)

anyone know how to use the plugin with our own sounds vst? I cant drag midi or anything


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## chocobitz825 (Mar 19, 2020)

Rey said:


> anyone know how to use the plugin with our own sounds vst? I cant drag midi or anything


You can drag the midi from the box in the lower right hand corner. Depending on your daw you can also route the midi from orb to another instrument.


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## Rey (Mar 19, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> You can drag the midi from the box in the lower right hand corner. Depending on your daw you can also route the midi from orb to another instrument.


got it working. Thanks! I see some drums instruments in there. can we generate drums as well using the ai?


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