# Weighted or Non-Weighted keys Keyboard



## constaneum (Oct 2, 2017)

I'm wonder what's the difference for weighted and non-weighted keys keyboard. Weighted is more suitable for Piano sample libraries but what about non-Piano sample libraries? I don't really need weighted keys as most dynamics are controlled using CC1. As for piano samples, how well are the sampled velocities mapped to the weight keys' velocity range? For example, when you play on midi keyboard with the dynamic of mp, does it actually play as mp on the sampled piano? would like to hear some thoughts.


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## EvilDragon (Oct 2, 2017)

constaneum said:


> As for piano samples, how well are the sampled velocities mapped to the weight keys' velocity range? For example, when you play on midi keyboard with the dynamic of mp, does it actually play as mp on the sampled piano?



That really depends, and this is also why you can adjust the velocity curve usually both on the controller and in whatever virtual piano you're using.


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## muk (Oct 2, 2017)

Are you a trained pianist? If you are, chances are that you won't enjoy unweighted keys much. I have had many years of training, and I am using a fully weighted keyboard for everything, not just piano sounds. With strings, for example, cc1 controls the dynamics for long notes. But for short articulations I use velocity. And with unweighted keys I simply can not control velocity with anywhere near the detail and nuances that weighted keys allow. So personally I prefer weighted keys for pretty much everything (except organ maybe, but I don't use it often).
Might be totally different for you. It is a very personal thing. Which is why there will be no way around trying it for yourself, and see what suits your workflow and personal preferences.


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## enCiphered (Oct 2, 2017)

muk said:


> Are you a trained pianist? If you are, chances are that you won't enjoy unweighted keys much. I have had many years of training, and I am using a fully weighted keyboard for everything, not just piano sounds. With strings, for example, cc1 controls the dynamics for long notes. But for short articulations I use velocity. And with unweighted keys I simply can not control velocity with anywhere near the detail and nuances that weighted keys allow. So personally I prefer weighted keys for pretty much everything (except organ maybe, but I don't use it often).
> Might be totally different for you. It is a very personal thing. Which is why there will be no way around trying it for yourself, and see what suits your workflow and personal preferences.



+1
Same feelings and experience here.
Once you play with fully weighted keyboards you won´t go back to unweighted keys again.


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## constaneum (Oct 2, 2017)

I'm not a trained pianist but I can play piano even though might not be perfect. I'm currently using a non-weighted korg midi keyboard


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## Alex Fraser (Oct 2, 2017)

I'm not sure anyone can give you a definitive answer on this. It's all so personal, and there are a ton of variables that will make your experience different to others.

One thing I never see considered in these sort of discussions is ergonomics. If you're committing to using 88 hammer keys as your main controller, you'll need to consider where you're going to put the thing. A slimline midi controller is a lot easier to place and takes up less room.

You mention a lot of the stuff you play is CC1 controlled? In that case, may I suggest spitting your tasks between the smaller controller and an 88 key? That'll give you multiple playing and ergonomic choices.


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## Piano & Strings (Oct 2, 2017)

How do some of the weighted actions handle rapid two finger repetitions for tight orchestral short notes? I've not tried many of the weighted actions for this.


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## TheNorseman (Oct 2, 2017)

Marc Filmer said:


> How do some of the weighted actions handle rapid two finger repetitions for tight orchestral short notes? I've not tried many of the weighted actions for this.



Not very well to be honest, at least for me. I have grown to like weighted keys a lot, but not for everything. Right now I have been using keys that are synth action, it feels like I'm playing with a fisher price product. But it does have some benefits like banging out drums and whatever. I think ideal would be somewhere in between. Komplete Kontrols I think would be considered synth action but it feels like a good hybrid.


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## Alex Fraser (Oct 2, 2017)

It depends what you're used to and what you've used to date.

I went from a heavy action hammer to a Nektar synth action controller. At first, the Nektar felt so light it was a shock. After a couple of days use, my brain "adapted" and going back to the previous heavy action was like hitting lead.

Kind of like when you jump in an unfamiliar car. At first the controls seem out of place but a few miles down the road it all starts to seem normal. Then you climb back into your normal car and *that one* feels strange and unfamiliar.
Just me? 

It also depends on your seating position. (I'm back to keyboards now.) A light synth action I find is more controllable if you're playing "outstretched" instead of "on top of" said keyboard.


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## EvilDragon (Oct 2, 2017)

Marc Filmer said:


> How do some of the weighted actions handle rapid two finger repetitions for tight orchestral short notes?



If it's a decent triple sensor action, *very *well.


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## Piano & Strings (Oct 2, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> If it's a decent triple sensor action, *very *well.


Thanks... that's heartening to know - I'll have to try out some more keybeds in the near future


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## averystemmler (Oct 2, 2017)

I'm not a pianist, but I prefer the "semi-weighted" variety for just about everything, piano or otherwise. I have an old, weighted Keystation Pro 88 that is waaaaaay too heavy for me (I think it's abnormally heavy even by weighted-key standards), to the point where it's hard for me to play anything below a velocity of ~80 with a linear curve. But, I also find synth action to be too squishy, so semi-weighted is a nice compromise for sequencing.

Also easier to transport, if you travel at all.


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## constaneum (Oct 5, 2017)

Semi weighted eh? Any good recommendation for that ?


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## TheNorseman (Oct 5, 2017)

constaneum said:


> Semi weighted eh? Any good recommendation for that ?



Like I stated above, I think the Komplete Kontrols has the perfect in-between. I have not tried every keyboard out there but something like is what I would look for.


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## Alex Fraser (Oct 5, 2017)

constaneum said:


> Semi weighted eh? Any good recommendation for that ?



A lot of folks around here like the Nectar Impact LX 88. 
Also, the M Audio Keystation 88 isn't as bad as some people make out, at least the current version. It's a bargain, anyhow.


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## Alex Fraser (Oct 5, 2017)

Also, Icon Pro Audio has an interesting looking range of semi-weighted keys their website, but I can't find any more about them elsewhere. I contacted the UK distributer and they had no idea about the products..


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## averystemmler (Oct 5, 2017)

constaneum said:


> Semi weighted eh? Any good recommendation for that ?



I'm not sure I'd give it a glowing recommendation, but I've been using the Alesis VI61 for a couple years now, and it's decent enough for the price. I like the action, and the drum pads are handy for keyswitches (but not responsive enough for drums, in my experience). After two years of moderate use and a bit of travel, the potentiometer in the mod wheel is starting to wear out though, so keep in mind that you'll probably have to break out a soldering iron at some point.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VI61

I'm sure NI's Komplete Kontrols are much better built, but the Alesis feels _mostly_ solid and will probably do you well enough if you're on a budget. I haven't tried the Nectar Impact line.



Alex Fraser said:


> M Audio Keystation 88 isn't as bad as some people make out, at least the current version. It's a bargain, anyhow.



I've heard decent things about the newer ones - I was referring to the M-Audio Keystation _Pro_ 88. It's an older, discontinued model with a whole bunch of knobs and faders. It's by no means terrible and I keep it around for those continuous controllers, but I'm not overly fond of the keys.

This hefty fella:


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## Alex Fraser (Oct 5, 2017)

averystemmler said:


> I've heard decent things about the newer ones - I was referring to the M-Audio Keystation _Pro_ 88. It's an older, discontinued model with a whole bunch of knobs and faders. It's by no means terrible and I keep it around for those continuous controllers, but I'm not overly fond of the keys.
> 
> This hefty fella:



Oh, wow, I remember that. Blast from the past!

To go back to the original OP question..
I've had a bunch of (cheap) midi keyboard controllers over the past few years. You could sum up the "velocity flow"™ a bit like this.

Physical sensation of keys > Sensitivity and accuracy of velocity capture on controller hardware > Programming and "taste" of velocity curves > Interpretation of incoming velocity by VI.

In other words, there are so many factors. For example, your VI might have a velocity layer crossover point between samples which is "tripped" frequently by the velocity curve on your controller, giving the impression that your midi keyboard is less accurate and playable than it actually is.

Generally, the more money you pay, the more all of this is "smoothed over." Also, playing with velocity curves on your VI goes a long way.


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