# Need reassurance from users who went from Mac to Windows, only.



## Headlands (Apr 28, 2020)

I just switched over to a crazy fast computer from Studio Cat and am fully into the Windows world after years on Mac. I switched because Mac as a company was losing my respect both with aspects of their their continual new OS's and dumbing down of apps, and with the amount of money they charge -- this Windows machine literally blows the doors off of all but the higher level new Mac Pros, and it was so much less money it's not even funny.

But I need some reassurance right now.

I'm about 1 and 1/2 weeks in and to me, at this point anyway, Mac OS looked better, was more intuitive in actual use as an OS (though I'm not fully used to W10 yet, I know), almost everything pretty much always simply worked, and it let me use the option/Windows key for Cubase key commands. Some of my fears of Windows have come true -- lots of troubleshooting and an OS that requires much more attention and tweaking. I'm not knocking Windows, I'm just talking about my experience so far and I would love to hear from fellow Mac-to-Windows users that everything will be OK. I'm sure it will be, I'm just missing the things that I did like about Macs.


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## onebitboy (Apr 28, 2020)

Neither macOS nor Windows are perfect systems. They both have their flaws in different areas, some a little more obvious than others. The bigger hardware diversity - which can lead to the necessary tweaking and troubleshooting you mentioned - might reinforce that negative first impression you have. I think it just takes a while to get used to the new environment and everything that comes with it after switching, no matter whether you go from macOS to Windows or the other direction.


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## jcrosby (Apr 28, 2020)

Headlands said:


> I just switched over to a crazy fast computer from Studio Cat and am fully into the Windows world after years on Mac. I switched because Mac as a company was losing my respect both with aspects of their their continual new OS's and dumbing down of apps, and with the amount of money they charge -- this Windows machine literally blows the doors off of all but the higher level new Mac Pros, and it was so much less money it's not even funny.
> 
> But I need some reassurance right now.
> 
> I'm about 1 and 1/2 weeks in and to me, at this point anyway, Mac OS looked better, was more intuitive in actual use as an OS (though I'm not fully used to W10 yet, I know), almost everything pretty much always simply worked, and it let me use the option/Windows key for Cubase key commands. Some of my fears of Windows have come true -- lots of troubleshooting and an OS that requires much more attention and tweaking. I'm not knocking Windows, I'm just talking about my experience so far and I would love to hear from fellow Mac-to-Windows users that everything will be OK. I'm sure it will be, I'm just missing the things that I did like about Macs.


It's certainly something I've been considering. Have you found anything that fills macos's quicklook/preview-from-finder feature? This is one of those workflow things I'd have a really hard time letting go of..


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## Headlands (Apr 28, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> It's certainly something I've been considering. Have you found anything that fills macos's quicklook/preview-from-finder feature? This is one of those workflow things I'd have a really hard time letting go of..



I'm still fully learning it so I'm not entirely sure. One thing I'm finding is that there are lots of apps that can help fill in some differences. For example: https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/file-previews-windows (one of a few that I see).

What I'm seeing is that you just need to get used to Windows and see it as a different OS. I've seen people fly every bit as fast on Windows as they do on Mac OS, so I know it just takes a bit of time becoming as comfortable with it and the way it works.


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## AlexRuger (Apr 28, 2020)

You'll be fine. A dedicated approach to learning will get you anywhere.

Schedule a full day of Windows-izing yourself. Put on the coffee, grab a beer, light a joint, whatever, and get to it. Have a key command you've been wondering about? Look it up. Wondering what the hell the Registry is? Google it for a half hour. Replicate every missing workflow you had on macOS. Do things you're uncomfortable doing. Boot into Safe Mode and see what the hell that's about.

In a day, you'll be fine. Seriously. A day.

I find this approach works for anything.


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## SirKen (Apr 28, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> It's certainly something I've been considering. Have you found anything that fills macos's quicklook/preview-from-finder feature? This is one of those workflow things I'd have a really hard time letting go of..



I don't know much about preview functionality but I cannot live without the following quick search software on Windows:






voidtools







www.voidtools.com


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## jcrosby (Apr 29, 2020)

SirKen said:


> I don't know much about preview functionality but I cannot live without the following quick search software on Windows:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seems like this replaces spotlight?


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## wst3 (Apr 29, 2020)

The shift from the way Apple looks at a computer to the way Microsoft looks at a computer is real, and not insignificant, but it is not a huge leap. Most of the time will be spent using the tools, not the OS, and that tends to have a little more in common.

For me the biggest issue is getting all the pieces to work together well - something Mac users can't imagine<G>!

You already made one excellent choice - StudioCat builds excellent computers, but even if he also installed all the software he doesn't know how you like to do things, there is some room for "tweaking".

Call Jim at StudioCat. I have no clue about current policies, but the worst case would be to pay him for an hour of support - he'll either talk you through things, or use a remote PC application to walk you through things. He is brilliant, and he is very easy to work with. And he is fair, he won't leave you hanging.

The only thing I'd suggest is try to have a list of problems or concerns before you call. He may suggest additional things, but if you provide a good starting point the call will go more smoothly.

I am not, by the way, suggesting Studiocat is the only company that provides this level of support, just the only company I deal with because the results have been stellar.

Oh... and welcome to the wonderful world of Windoze!


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## MartinH. (Apr 29, 2020)

SirKen said:


> I don't know much about preview functionality but I cannot live without the following quick search software on Windows:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was gonna recommend "everything" as a search tool as well. It was one of the most life changing workflow improvements ever for me. Can't recommend it highly enough.


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## labornvain (Apr 29, 2020)

I'm wondering what you are having to troubleshoot or tweak. It's been about 10 years since I've had to do anything to get a stable high performance Windows system running.

Some people have had issues with Nvidia video drivers, but I haven't. I can run at extremely low latency.

I used to tweak my windows machines, disabling services and other things etc. But I don't even bother anymore.

Since I updated to Windows 10, one thing that's probably helped me is I don't run commercial versions of the OS. I started with Windows 10 LTSB 2016, and now I'm running Enterprise 1903.

These are both versions of the OS that don't have the store, or any of the other crap that Microsoft added in Windows 10. And most importantly, they don't do updates.

Both systems have been utterly rock-solid for me.

As for workflow comparisons, I can't really comment since it's been so long since I switched from Mac to PC. But I still occasionally find myself doing tech support for friends or family on their Macs. And I always find it a frustrating experience. I have never found it easier to use a Mac than a PC. But that's just me.

Probably the biggest thing that has frustrated me in using Macs, post-PC, is the lack of wide-scale implementation of the right mouse button.

Apparently, Steve Jobs hated the right mouse button and resisted its implementation long after the PC had fully implemented it.

Obviously, this has changed since then. But I think I can still tell when applications are developed by Mac-centric developers and I go to right click on something and nothing happens.

I know it's been a long time since this was a thing, but I thought I would use your thread to vent my twenty-year-old issue with the right mouse button on Macs. My therapist thanks you.

Seriously though, feel free to post your specific problems and I'm pretty sure the kind people here can help you get through them fairly easily.


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## AlexRuger (Apr 29, 2020)

@labornvain how did you get ahold of LTSB/Enterprise? I looked into it for a while but the process is so fuzzy and difficult that I just gave up.


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## onebitboy (Apr 29, 2020)

You can't legally buy Enterprise licenses individually. They're only available via a volume licensing contract.


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## Headlands (Apr 29, 2020)

This all eases my mind hugely -- thanks, all. The issues were mostly "What? I can't do THIS!?" and things like that, but I've found I can do almost everything I could on Mac, and some things I couldn't. Also, was getting errors and some hiccups but Jim eased me through them and why they were happening, and all is completely solid.

Here's one issue that I could use some opinions on: I'm using an Apollo 8 mk ii (thunderbolt), and on my Mac when I played system audio at the same time as running a session on Cubase it would automatically sample-rate-convert. WDM doesn't seem to want to do this, and I have to manually change the WDM sample rate (which requires menu diving) to match the Apollo, or vice-versa, both of which are a big PITA in my work where i'm constantly juggling listening to files sent from clients/reference/etc., while composing.

Is there a way to remedy this?


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## onebitboy (Apr 29, 2020)

Are you using an ASIO driver in Cubase? ASIO completely bypasses WDM.


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## Headlands (Apr 29, 2020)

onebitboy said:


> Are you using an ASIO driver in Cubase? ASIO completely bypasses WDM.



Yes, I am. In the Mac it wasn't an issue playing back different sample rates in the system while Cubase was up...I don't know how the Mac system audio works as far as how it deals with ASIO, just that it did. is there a way to make this work in Windows? It's a big sore point for me.


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## PaulieDC (Apr 30, 2020)

Got my first Mac in 1990 and was a total fanboy even before the word was invented. When I became a software developer in 1999 I plunged into the Windows world. In 2009 I built my first high-end (at the time) video editing machine and it was evident that that the insane power you get from a PC and getting to build it with any components you wish (that often have 5-year to lifetime warranties) for a fifth of the price is such a no-brainer, FORGET the OS, just get used to using it and it won't even phase you in a short time. 

OK, you get the point. So here are some tips to make your VI world easier in Windows:

When you start any app, Cubase or Dorico or your AI utility or anything else, right-click and A-L-W-A-Y-S CHOOSE Run As Administrator. Always. In fact, I right click the app, go to Properties, and check the Run as Admin box on the Compatibility Tab so it always does that anyway. You have to, because as part of satisfying the outcry that Windows isn't secure, *everything runs as standard user even if you are the owner/local admin.* So you have to tell every app to run as admin. Not my opinion, got that straight from the Microsoft guys at a developer conference.
Needless to say, when you install something, DEFINITELY right-click as Run as Admin. Get used to that. Admin gives you full Access to the Registry (more on that later)
I store ZERO user files on the C drive, especially in the default location that Micosoft enforces which is My Documents in your user folder (which you can get to alternately at C:\Users\[YourUserName]. Instead I create the folders I want on another drive, then Create a Library and put them in the Library. When you go to save ANYTHING from the file menu, your cutom Libraries are right there to choose easily, no hunting around.
The other advantage about user files on another drive is if your C drive chokes or you have to reinstall windows, you don't lose any files.
From now until further notice, ALWAY USE ASIO DRIVERS, lol! And make sure you install them... with Run As Administrator!
Seek and destroy any third-party antivirus, they all hammer your system. Windows Defender is built-in to Windows and Microsoft knows better how to defend its OS than anyone else. If somebody says "Defender? That garbage software was built into Windows Vista in 2006 and it couldn't stop a fly!", just ignore them. It's not the same Defender AV from 15 years ago. Microsoft in their infinite wisdom of bad marketing did the stupidest thing several years ago: They took their awesome Microsoft Security Essentials that we used to pay for and offered it free for Windows 7 and 8, then decided to bundle it into Win 10. Yay. Except somebody decided to rename it Defender, the same name of the garbage AV they had in 2005-era. Don't ask me, i don't get it either. Defender now is lightweight and won't, for the most part, hammer your system.
Windows is ALL ABOUT the right-click. If you don;t know exactly where in teh menus to find something regard a file, skip the menus, right-click on it. The flyout menu from right-clicking on something will probably have whatever it is you are looking for. Want dislay settings or screensaver? Just right-click on teh desktop. And if you are LOOKING for stuff, see next bullet.
Finding stuff: *There is an equivalent to Spotlight!* This one is weird: Click the Start button/flag thing in the lower left corner *and just start typing. *There won't be any text box or anything. Just type. The speed that it finds stuff, even words inside email, is quite good. For instrance, don't know how to start RME's TotalMix utility? Click Start and type RM and before you hit E you'll see it. Prefer a keystroke? Hit your Windows Key... does the same as clicking the Start flag. You may get the Start window pop up with all the tiles of apps you'll never use, IGNORE IT and just type. Windows weird version of Spotlight at your service.
Speaking of the Start Menu and Right-clicking, go ahead and Right-Click the Start button/flag and you will get a popup menu of different system utilities. There's one good way to get to task manager. Task Manager is your friend when things like Cubase or Photoshop lock up. Open Task Manager and you can find the running app that's hung in the Programs list, right-click it and choose End Task. You'll lose everything if you didn't save but it will kill a hung progam.
If you have to move files bewteen drives or even to the desktop, I always right-click and drag any file I'm moving or copying. Reason is, as soon as you let go you get a flyout menu with the choice to Copy, Move or creat a shortcut (same as Alias). I always like having the option.
Windows does have Control Panels but they are bent on getting away from those. Everything is in the Settings area now. You should go through all the different sections and see what they have, you'll really get to know how to make Windows work for you. There are 37 ways to get to Settings and 36 of them are weird. Just hold down the Windows key and press I (captial i). Windows key sits between Control and Alt, on either one or both sides depending on your keyboard. One you go to a certain Setting page section, like Display Settings, if you look to the right you will see a link to click that says something like More or Advanced options. THAT'S the link that will take you to the Control Panel! You can't get to it any other way, they removed Control Panels from the Start menu. That was as stupid as Apple removing the headphone jack from everything the make in iOS.
Good time to talk about shortcuts with the Windows Key, there are several good ones:
Win+I - Settings window
Win+E - Windows Explorer (this is your Finder)
Win+M - Minimizes all of your windows
Win+P - Opens the sidebar to control multiple monitors
Win+L - Locks your PC quickly (if you use a password)
Win+R - brings up the Run command. This is kind of advanced but it's the fastest way if you need that.


Near the 10,000 character limit, posting a second section.


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## PaulieDC (Apr 30, 2020)

You are used to closing your windows on the top left. You can still do that, most windows allow it. Do a fast double-click on the top left of a window whether there's an icon or not, it'll close your window!
When you go to the Settings page (with Win+I), go through the Privacy sections carefully so you can uncheck everything Microsoft is tracking... like, oh, every keystroke you are doing. And after Patch Tuesday hits and you get updates, you have to recheck it because the bums turn stuff back on! Patch Tuesday is the second Tuesday of the month and that's when your biggest microsoft updates will be pushed out. You'll get others too, but that's when the big ones come out. FWIW, since I'm a developer, I'm interested in what Microsoft is fixing, so I install everything right away. Hopeless early adopter. But if an update gets installed and Steinberg wasn't ready for this and they need to patch Cubase, how do you uninstall the last update? Click Start, start typing “Uninst“ and you won't even get the word Uninstall done and you'll see an option to do that. 
If you come across some awesome vintage synth and the utlity it came with was last updated in 2001 on Windows XP, don't sweat it, try right-clicking on the .exe file (that's a program, when it ends with .exe, means executable), select Properties, click the Compatibility tab and tell Windows to run the old app as Windows XP or even Windows 2000, and Win10 will give it the old college try the next time you try to run it. It works more often then not but that's how you run old software.
IMPORTANT, DO THIS: Hit Win+E to open Windows Explorer. At the top you should see the Ribbon, full of icons with commands, etc. If it's not showing, hit CTRL+F1 and it will show. You can hit that combination to open and close it all day actually. Once open, go to the View tab, and check the Boxes for File Name Extensions and Hidden Items. You HAVE to see your File Name extensions in Windows, it's just how it rolls. Extensions are like .cpr for Cubase files, .exe's are programs, .txt is a text file of course. And Hidden Items needs to be checked because Microsoft hides to many important files that we as VI composers need to see. You may look in your Spitfire sample folder and not see everything you should. Be careful of course but I always run with that checked. Leave Item Check Boxes unchecked, that adds a checkbox to every file which I find strange, not sure what that does.
When you start an app like Cubase, you'll see the icon in your Task Bar at the bottom. When it's running is a good time to right-click the icon down in the task bar and choose Pin to Task bar so it stays put. The bonus to that is you can right-click the now-pinned program icon and get a popup of recent files. Super fast way to reload your Cubase project.
Programs (or Applications): In Windows you CANNOT copy the Program folder to another PC and run it. That's a great Mac feature that does not exist in Windows. You ALWAYS have to run the installer because Windows tracks everything about everything including a bazillion settings for installed apps in the massive complex annoying thing called the Registry. The Registry is a protected entity in Windows for security reasons and if you mess with it your stuff may not run. BUT, here's the big connection now - in order for programs to have full access to the Registry when they are running (something Adobe's prgrammers are notorious for, using the Registry to store 40 million things), *you have to have admin rights on the PC and those rights need to be transferred to the running program, such as Cubase. * How do you do that? Right-click and run your apps as Administrator! Bing! Maybe Steinberg's programmers are being really god about not overusing the Registry like Adobe's Dev team does, but why take the chance, just run everything as Admin. Quickem and Microsoft Office are the only two software packages that tell you not to AFAIK. THE BIG TAKEAWAY frok this bulletpoint is, alway sback up your installer files because if you have to reset windows for whatever reason, you files may be safe (and hopefully on another drive), you WILL have to reinstall your programs. This is why when I want to wpe and reload Windows once every couple years (because that Registry get BLOATED), it's a weekend project. It's almost better to buy disk image utilities like Acrosnis TrueImage to make a clone of teh drive but that's for another thread. Same with File History and backups, too much to go into here.

The last and most confusing thing untilo you realize what's going on is, Microsoft is trying to make Win10 a single OS for both desktop PCs/laptop, and their Surface tablets. Now the Surface can run windows just fine, but Micorosft has created this aditional layer to Win10 that allows you to buy apps in an app store like you do with Apple and have them run as "Apps" in a surface-level area where Win10 is trying to be an iPad. And it's weird because a desktop program like Cubase that you by boxed or as a downloadable installer (.exe or .msi file, or even .zip that you right click and Extract first) is meant for Windows, but if you want to run youyr laptop or Surface tablet like an iPad, you have to buy THAT version, and that's when they call it an App. Program on the desktop, App in the surface overlay. The two are not connected. You can buy Photoshop and install it, and then you can go to te Microsoft App Store and buy the tablet version only to run as just that. UGH, this is weird and hard to explain. But it's important because when you go to the Settings page and go into Privacy, you are gong to see a TON of settings that say "Allow Apps to access My Camera" or your mic, or your Contacts, whatever. *I turn ALL those off.* Those setting will NOT affect your desktop programs at all, only any apps you might buy from Microsoft's app store (which I do not do, I want the real desktop programs). But it sound like you are stopping your Programs from accessing your PC. You're not, this is Microsoft trying to push the surface Tablet section of Win 10 on everyone for whatever reason.

Yikes, I'd better hit the hay, have to record some guitar tracks in the morning. But hope this list provides some understanding of your new Windows world. I guess I got pretty wordy, sorry about that! I'm sure there are spelling mistakes galore, just too wiped to proofread tonight, lol.
-Paul


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## Headlands (Apr 30, 2020)

Thanks PaulieDC. Great posts.

How do you recommend I set Windows Audio to use ASIO? I'm using ASIO for when I use Cubase/VE Pro, etc...not sure how to set that for Windows audio as well. I'm usually sharp with this stuff but am a little fuzzy about how Windows audio specifically works compared to Mac.


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## onebitboy (Apr 30, 2020)

Headlands said:


> not sure how to set that for Windows audio as well.


You can't.


Headlands said:


> is there a way to make this work in Windows? It's a big sore point for me.


Apparently not: https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/215984943


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## Headlands (Apr 30, 2020)

onebitboy said:


> You can't.
> 
> Apparently not: https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/215984943



Damn. That really sucks for me. Clearly I just need to suck it up. Mac wins for this one. Not happy about this.


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## MartinH. (Apr 30, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> When you start any app, Cubase or Dorico or your AI utility or anything else, right-click and A-L-W-A-Y-S CHOOSE Run As Administrator. Always. In fact, I right click the app, go to Properties, and check the Run as Admin box on the Compatibility Tab so it always does that anyway. You have to, because as part of satisfying the outcry that Windows isn't secure, *everything runs as standard user even if you are the owner/local admin.* So you have to tell every app to run as admin. Not my opinion, got that straight from the Microsoft guys at a developer conference.



Is that new with windows 8 or 10? I'm still on 7 and I've always just used my one user account as admin account and set that annoying UAC thing to its least secure setting, so that it doesn't bother me.


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## jcrosby (Apr 30, 2020)

Headlands said:


> Damn. That really sucks for me. Clearly I just need to suck it up. Mac wins for this one. Not happy about this.


Man this is one of the two biggest things that have held me back from switching, (core audio and QuickLook/Preview from Finder).

Ironically I was on Windows 15 years ago, kind of surprised MS still hasn't taken a page from Apple on this one... Guessing this is the reason why Windows doesn't have a preview feature, (at least as far as I'm aware)... The whole _run as admin_ thing always bothered me too, as well as MS updates. I've never missed those... Anyway I'll leave it at that. Not looking for an OS war! Horses for courses as they say...

Hackintoshing it for now... Hoping MS wise up a bit about little touches like this as more musicians make the leap in the meantime. (Wishful thinking I'm sure.)


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## Headlands (Apr 30, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> Man this is one of the two biggest things that have held me back from switching, (core audio and QuickLook/Preview from Finder).
> 
> Ironically I was on Windows 15 years ago, kind of surprised MS still hasn't taken a page from Apple on this one... Guessing this is the reason why Windows doesn't have a preview feature, (at least as far as I'm aware)... The whole _run as admin_ thing always bothered me too, as well as MS updates. I've never missed those... Anyway I'll leave it at that. Not looking for an OS war! Horses for courses as they say...
> 
> Hackintoshing it for now... Hoping MS wise up a bit about little touches like this as more musicians make the leap in the meantime. (Wishful thinking I'm sure.)



I was bummed/annoyed about these things at first, too, until I found they are all fixable: You can configure Windows to not do any updates at all automatically, which is how mine is set up. An at least similar Quicklook/Preview is available in Windows by using of one a few different available apps. And you can select apps to always run in Admin mode in their preferences.

But the Core Audio is a definite win for Apple that I'm super bummed about in Windows. WDM can't compete in its current form -- I hope they improve it, too. Overall I'm quite liking Windows though. It feels "snappier" overall, and as I get used to it I find I'm missing Mac OS less and less.

I'm happy with my decision to go to Windows and I also like Mac. They both do certain things great and both need improvement in some ways.


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## gsilbers (Apr 30, 2020)

Yeah I tried windows several times for audio/music work and the workflow didn’t do it for me.

the design or philosophy around the design is a bit more techy. More fiddling. Which is similar to how cubase is vs logic. More ways to do the same things and various menus and sub menus to modify and customize your workflow.
Techy people love this and it does have its merits. And mac has more thought around how the average user will use it.
Sometimes it does fall in a bad spot of being too strict without options. apple wants you to work a specific l way which is how most people will use it, myself included. But sometimes I do see some cubase or windows stuff that I’m like oh man I wish apple/logic had that. then at the same time I see how cubase is trying to imitate logic features. And logic imitating ableton live and so on.

for windows 10 what drove me crazy is that Microsoft really wants every window to look exactly the same. So u don’t know if youare on the web orthe search or desktop or explorer and so on.

I used windows for my corporate job and I remember it was very cool for that. The email integration w business apps was amazing. Somestuff just worked but there was an it team dealing w everything and the setup.

Once you get started and going w a few projects then you’ll start getting used to it.

I would suggest googling articles on how to customize your windows system. And customization for audio. You might find cool stuff you didn’t know you wanted.


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## labornvain (Apr 30, 2020)

Headlands said:


> I was bummed/annoyed about these things at first, too, until I found they are all fixable: You can configure Windows to not do any updates at all automatically, which is how mine is set up. An at least similar Quicklook/Preview is available in Windows by using of one a few different available apps. And you can select apps to always run in Admin mode in their preferences.
> 
> But the Core Audio is a definite win for Apple that I'm super bummed about in Windows. WDM can't compete in its current form -- I hope they improve it, too. Overall I'm quite liking Windows though. It feels "snappier" overall, and as I get used to it I find I'm missing Mac OS less and less.
> 
> I'm happy with my decision to go to Windows and I also like Mac. They both do certain things great and both need improvement in some ways.


For reference files, I use a plug-in called Adaptr Metric AB.

This allows you to load audio files, songs whatever, and with a seamless push of a button switch back and forth between your current project and said audio file.

There are other plugins to do this, but not nearly as well. Metric AB has the ability to match the levels of the reference file to your current mix, and to synchronize the reference file to your current project which is handy if you're wanting to reference a rough mix or another version of the same song.

And most importantly, for your situation, and though I've never actually tested it, it says it does sample rate conversion.

Obviously, this isn't as easy as just being able to double click on an audio file and listen to it in your media player. But 4 reference files that pertain to whatever Cubase project you're working on, this might be the best way to go anyway.


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## PaulieDC (May 2, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Is that new with windows 8 or 10? I'm still on 7 and I've always just used my one user account as admin account and set that annoying UAC thing to its least secure setting, so that it doesn't bother me.


Technically you should do it on Windows 7 to but it’s not as restrictive as windows 10.


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## PaulieDC (May 2, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> Yeah I tried windows several times for audio/music work and the workflow didn’t do it for me.
> 
> the design or philosophy around the design is a bit more techy. More fiddling. Which is similar to how cubase is vs logic.


You know that’s an extremely good point. And even what all the others are saying about windows. As a windows software developer, sure, I know all the weird little stupid stuff, which is why I was trying to list a bunch of it. But if you’re coming into windows truly music minded and don’t wanna have to worry about all the tech stuff, get a Mac. If i wasn’t already invested in all of this I would get a Mac if I was starting out. Everything else I own device wise is iOS. It is truly my respite and relief from working in the windows world every day, lol.


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## Headlands (May 2, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> You know that’s an extremely good point. And even what all the others are saying about windows. As a windows software developer, sure, I know all the weird little stupid stuff, which is why I was trying to list a bunch of it. But if you’re coming into windows truly music minded and don’t wanna have to worry about all the tech stuff, get a Mac. If i wasn’t already invested in all of this I would get a Mac if I was starting out. Everything else I own device wise is iOS. It is truly my respite and relief from working in the windows world every day, lol.




Yeah. A part of me is regretting my decision for that reason. But it'll be fine I'm sure.


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## José Herring (May 2, 2020)

Probably too simple of a solution to your WDM problem but I do all my previewing of audio file directly from Cubase. I use Cubase and Reason and those two programs become my windows operating system. 

I'll check now if it does automatic sample rate conversions when previewing.


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## José Herring (May 2, 2020)

Yeah it does convert the file on the fly through cubase preview.

You can also import the audio file into the Pool and play it from there.

There's going to be some workflow changes for sure. And, Windows 10 is terrible imo. I have one windows 7 machine and 1 windows 10 machine and W7 is just so much more streamlined. I'm regretting having to finally switch to W10 when I upgrade to C10.5 (or 11 at my rate). But, I may just stick with Cubase 9.5 for a while longer. 

I'm also not opposed to the idea of switching back to Mac and DP. In the next few months I'll need to choose.


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## cuttime (May 2, 2020)

This: Try deleting Mac preferences vs. Windows Register Editing.


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## detritusdave (May 2, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> You know that’s an extremely good point. And even what all the others are saying about windows. As a windows software developer, sure, I know all the weird little stupid stuff, which is why I was trying to list a bunch of it. But if you’re coming into windows truly music minded and don’t wanna have to worry about all the tech stuff, get a Mac. If i wasn’t already invested in all of this I would get a Mac if I was starting out. Everything else I own device wise is iOS. It is truly my respite and relief from working in the windows world every day, lol.


Glad I'm not the only one that has. I spend all day coding in Windows... just seeing the Segoe font in a music environment is an instant turn off, and all inspiration just dies ... I think that's genuinely the only reason I mostly use Macs for audio.


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## PaulieDC (May 2, 2020)

detritusdave said:


> ... just seeing the Segoe font in a music environment is an instant turn off, and all inspiration just dies ...


 Love it and totally get it!


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## Headlands (May 3, 2020)

cuttime said:


> This: Try deleting Mac preferences vs. Windows Register Editing.



This is supposed to make me feel better?? Hahaha. I think I'll leave before this thread turns into a yet another Windows vs. Mac war.


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## Headlands (May 3, 2020)

josejherring said:


> Yeah it does convert the file on the fly through cubase preview.
> 
> You can also import the audio file into the Pool and play it from there.



Yes, there's that. Extra work and clicking about, but doable.

As I said: I'm kind of regretting my decision right now, I gotta say, but I'm only about two weeks in so I'm sure I'll get used to it. A great thing is that it's been supremely stable with gigantic scoring sessions with both Cubase and VE Pro running together, so at least that worry has gone out the window. And there's been enough positivity on this thread to make me feel alright about it. Some of my favorite and many, many other composers are on Windows with Cubase, as well, which is good to know.


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## rdd27 (May 3, 2020)

For your WDM problem, if you tend to use your DAW in the same sample rate, it could be useful to switch the WDM playback sample rate. I think it defaults to 44.1khz but you can change it to whatever you are using in your DAW. 

I don't have an Apollo so never had this issue, so I also can't guarantee it will solve it. However, if both your DAW and Windows are working at 48khz (or whatever your preference is), that may reduce the number of times you have an issue switching between applications. 

If you haven't tried this already, this webpage includes the steps to switch the WDM sample rate (scroll down to the answer post): https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...tings-in/5a70718b-7ecf-4547-a64a-22efda8da0c2


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## José Herring (May 3, 2020)

Headlands said:


> Yes, there's that. Extra work and clicking about, but doable.
> 
> As I said: I'm kind of regretting my decision right now, I gotta say, but I'm only about two weeks in so I'm sure I'll get used to it. A great thing is that it's been supremely stable with gigantic scoring sessions with both Cubase and VE Pro running together, so at least that worry has gone out the window. And there's been enough positivity on this thread to make me feel alright about it. Some of my favorite and many, many other composers are on Windows with Cubase, as well, which is good to know.


Windows is incredibly stable. It is the main reason why I switched platforms. But....... I always say each platform brings with it a certain amount of pain in the ass. It's what kind of pain can you live with. Me, I don't mind digging under the hood that much, but as I get older I realize that I don't have that kind of time any more. So Mac is looking more and more appealing.


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## jcrosby (May 3, 2020)

Headlands said:


> Yes, there's that. Extra work and clicking about, but doable.
> 
> As I said: I'm kind of regretting my decision right now, I gotta say, but I'm only about two weeks in so I'm sure I'll get used to it. A great thing is that it's been supremely stable with gigantic scoring sessions with both Cubase and VE Pro running together, so at least that worry has gone out the window. And there's been enough positivity on this thread to make me feel alright about it. Some of my favorite and many, many other composers are on Windows with Cubase, as well, which is good to know.


You _could_ try the hackintosh route (depending on your hardware), but assuming you already weighed that option and decided for windows instead?


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## vitocorleone123 (May 3, 2020)

Windows gives freedom and flexibility. There’s a time cost to that that isn’t for everyone. I use Macs for work (have 2 Mac book pros), have used Macs for work for many years. They’re not my preference. It’s a relief to use Windows 10 again every night. Macs are not trouble free or annoyance free, either. Pick your poison. Ha.

When it comes to music, the driver model is something that mac is better at. And that’s no small thing for some. 

All the rest of it is a matter of acclimation and establishing good habits - that are different from Apple. Also, many things aren’t built into the OS because of the antitrust lawsuit. So it’s a matter of having to find them and install them.

You’ll be fine.


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## Headlands (May 7, 2020)

josejherring said:


> Windows is incredibly stable. It is the main reason why I switched platforms. But....... I always say each platform brings with it a certain amount of pain in the ass. It's what kind of pain can you live with. Me, I don't mind digging under the hood that much, but as I get older I realize that I don't have that kind of time any more. So Mac is looking more and more appealing.



Agreed on all fronts. I used to love tweaking stuff, now my schedule is so full that it's a PIA at times. But at this point my Windows machine is super solid and I won't be updating any system stuff, drivers, etc., until I need to/they're known to be stable.


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## Headlands (May 7, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> You _could_ try the hackintosh route (depending on your hardware), but assuming you already weighed that option and decided for windows instead?



Yes, I decided to go Windows. But at some point I can try it on this monster machine if I change my mind.


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## Symfoniq (May 7, 2020)

I went to Windows for a few years, during the dark days of the trash can Mac Pro and butterfly keyboard MacBook Pro (I realize some people liked these machines, but they simply didn't work for me).

I came back to macOS with the release of the Mac Pro 7,1.

I think Windows 10 is the best version of Windows yet. I think you can use it to get serious work done. I don't think Windows 10 is your father's Windows. I even prefer some things about Windows 10 to macOS.

But honestly, it's nice to be back on a Mac. I've built many PCs over the years, and the prospect no longer excites me. I appreciate a well-designed computer with a warranty (that I probably won't ever have to use). CoreAudio still gives the Mac an edge in the audio department, IMO. I like being able to use both Cubase _and_ Logic. I also appreciate the Unix underpinnings (which are relevant to some of my work, but maybe not to yours).

I was hugely turned off by the tackiness of advertising in Windows 10 (even Pro versions), and the sheer amount of "telemetry" data that the OS sends to Microsoft. Windows 10 is a great OS once you become an expert in all the things you need to turn off in the Group Policy Editor (and aware of which things will probably get silently switched back on after a Windows update).

I'm not interested in starting a debate or having an argument. Windows 10 is fine. If you switch, you might be glad you did. Or you might find that you still prefer macOS, and are willing to pay a premium for it.

I never minded paying more for macOS, I just couldn't stand paying more for crippled, user-hostile hardware. But I think Apple might be back on the right track now.


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## Headlands (May 7, 2020)

Symfoniq said:


> I went to Windows for a few years, during the dark days of the trash can Mac Pro and butterfly keyboard MacBook Pro (I realize some people liked these machines, but they simply didn't work for me).
> 
> I came back to macOS with the release of the Mac Pro 7,1.
> 
> ...



I agree with all of this, yes. Overall at this point I'm still more of a fan of Mac OS but I'll be fine on Windows for a while. The cost of a comparatively powered Mac Pro was comical, so I went with Windows. Mac OS still feels more "pro" to me and I miss everything just working. But, as I said, I have an absurdly powerful computer for less than half of what a similar Mac Pro would have cost so it was worth it for me at this point in time. Also, I like the way Cubase is working on Windows more overall (there are definitely some pros and cons on both OS's for Cubase, though). The RME option will make WDM much more palatable with my Apollo 8, so I'm looking forward to that.


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## jcrosby (May 7, 2020)

Headlands said:


> Yes, I decided to go Windows. But at some point I can try it on this monster machine if I change my mind.


If you have the right hardware it really isn't hard to do.. (It's actually easier than ever.) If you get curious PM me and I can steer you toward a few walkthroughs...

Either way hope you're adapting well!


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## JyTy (May 7, 2020)

I just tried to do the same, got myself a fast enough Dell Workstation, and wanted to move my music-making process to Windows 10... 

First thing I said I'm going to buy myself a new DAW... And luckily enough I didn't rush into things and downloaded Cubase Pro trial... and man am I disappointed... It is crashing non-stop... Clean Win 10 install, Cubase Pro 10.5 only with stock plugins, loading their DEMO projects from the site... I consider myself lucky if they even open, but if by some rear occasion after many tries they do, playing is full of glitches on one of them, the classical one seems to work fine... It is probably something with my machine, but no response from their support for three days, tried everything from the forums, so scr** Cubase...

The next thing I tried was studioOne, nice, works fine... But it is just not opening some of my xml files, and I'm kinda missing articulation mappings...

So right now I'm testing Vepro7 using the Dell for plugins only and hooking it as a slave into my Macbook and working with Logic... all smooth, great app, love the features... So I believe I already stopped playing with the idea of switching fully to Windows... I own Logic X since it was released back in 2013 and I cannot even remember a single issue or crash up until I tried to use SINE player with it :D


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## Headlands (May 7, 2020)

JyTy said:


> I just tried to do the same, got myself a fast enough Dell Workstation, and wanted to move my music-making process to Windows 10...
> 
> First thing I said I'm going to buy myself a new DAW... And luckily enough I didn't rush into things and downloaded Cubase Pro trial... and man am I disappointed... It is crashing non-stop... Clean Win 10 install, Cubase Pro 10.5 only with stock plugins, loading their DEMO projects from the site... I consider myself lucky if they even open, but if by some rear occasion after many tries they do, playing is full of glitches on one of them, the classical one seems to work fine... It is probably something with my machine, but no response from their support for three days, tried everything from the forums, so scr** Cubase...
> 
> ...



Man that is odd! Cubase 10.5 running gigantic sessions with immense amounts of third-party plugins along with VE Pro on the same computer is mostly crash-free (as crash-free as on Mac, which wasn't ever completely crash-free) on Windows for me so far. I wonder what happened in your case? Frustrating, I can imagine.


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## jcrosby (May 7, 2020)

Headlands said:


> Yes, I decided to go Windows. But at some point I can try it on this monster machine if I change my mind.


Scratch that last reply! Just saw your PM...  Will get back to you shortly...


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## JyTy (May 7, 2020)

Headlands said:


> Man that is odd! Cubase 10.5 running gigantic sessions with immense amounts of third-party plugins along with VE Pro on the same computer is mostly crash-free (as crash-free as on Mac, which wasn't ever completely crash-free) on Windows for me so far. I wonder what happened in your case? Frustrating, I can imagine.



Yes I was very surprised as well!? I would love to make it work but have no idea what else to try... I don't know what the issue could be... maybe it is something with the graphic card (have AMD FirePro V7600) those can cause some issues now and then,... but other than that a fresh clean Win10 install, same with Cubase Pro 10.5 running on a Dell Precision T5600... only stock plugins loaded, nothing else.


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## vitocorleone123 (May 9, 2020)

“Feels pro” is totally subjective, of course! I think the Mac OS looks more like a toy than my Win10 on my PC. *shrug*. I work on both.

But it always comes down to what each person is comfortable with and likes using the most. Nothing wrong with Macs, that’s for sure.


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## PaulieDC (Oct 15, 2020)

Headlands said:


> I agree with all of this, yes. Overall at this point I'm still more of a fan of Mac OS but I'll be fine on Windows for a while... The RME option will make WDM much more palatable with my Apollo 8, so I'm looking forward to that.


So it's been a while, how the Winderz environment going for you?

I read back at the threads that talked about Core Audio and WDM and Lions and Tigers and Bears etc.... and I 'm sort of confused because I don't know what I don't know. I use the RME Babyface Pro for Cubase/WaveLab work of course, but I also use it with my iLoud MTMs or headphones just as PC audio if I'm doing things at my desk and want to listen to iTunes or SoundCloud, etc. The RME with its ASIO drivers works for everything. I forced myself to figure out Total Mix FX and once I learned the bizarre UI, it's invaluable to my PC overall, not just Cubase and WaveLab and Dorico. I have separete mix presets for nearfields and my headphones, and I can loopback and record any audio from any webpage (LOVE that feature), etc. So what am I missing that Core Audio provides with the Mac? I ask that for real, I'm not familiar with Core Audio.


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## fakemaxwell (Oct 15, 2020)

For what it's worth, all of the interface I've used in Windows have been fine playing ASIO through the DAW and WDM for everything else, concurrently with no need to change sample rates or whatever. M-Audio, Avid, and RME. Not sure about the UAudio stuff.

The only thing (I think) that is missing in Windows from Core Audio is the ability to easily make aggregate devices. That's some cool stuff, but generally feels like that's most useful in live situations where you need to do some funky stuff. VI composing doesn't usually need a lot of inputs.


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