# Mac Studio NVMe+enclosure or T7 or internal 2.5 in an enclosure for sample libraries



## mercury (Jul 4, 2022)

If you were going to a buy a Mac studio, what would you store your libraries on a NVMe+enclosure, T7, internal 2.5 in an enclosure? If so, what would which make/model drives would you buy/recommend, what would be your set up/configuration with a Mac Studio? I'm upgrading from a Mac Pro 1.1 to a Mac Studio - the Mac Pro has been so stable but showed its age long ago. All my samples, sample libraries are on an internal HDD which is ancient as things have moved along so much.

I've read a lot about this, all the threads on here and elsewhere - so apologies to go over it again but it would be great to hear peoples opinions (again). I can't make my mind up and am going around in circles! 

I've read that NVMe loads the samples much quicker but other than that there wasn't a whole lot of difference and that Kontakt doesn't take full advantage of the NVMe speed, plus they get hot and are a lot more expensive? In the long term would it be wise to get a NVMVe?

I read on here quite a few people mention they have their SSDs 2.5 in an enclosure, something like the Thunder Bay Mini 4 - I thought with this you could have a dedicated samples drive, system back up, a projects drive etc. Doing it this way is 'similar' to the Mac Pro.

On the OWC site it says that the Thunderbay Mini 4 has up to 1556MB/s speeds, but is this as a RAID?

Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks


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## mercury (Jul 4, 2022)

https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015608338-What-Should-I-Look-For-When-Purchasing-an-SSD-For-My-Libraries-



I was reading this Spitfire Audio article, it goes into read/write speeds regarding QD1 and IOPS.


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## Nimrod7 (Jul 4, 2022)

I just have 5 T7 drives each connected to a thunderbolt port (via a Caldigit Element 4 hub).
Its not without problems, I had issues with the drives freezing when installing libraries, which still I am not clear what's going on (just through sine).

Fortunately once installed, it works without issues streaming from Sine, Kontakt, Opus, Spitfire, and Synchron.

I avoided thunderbays because of the noise. I am very strict on noise in the studio, it's annoying me, but that's just me. Nothing with a fan gets in there!

I am also seeking something that is reliable, passively cooled, and has descent speed.


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## Paulogic (Jul 5, 2022)

I use a NVMe Samsung 1 TB in an enclosure using TB4 for my libraries.
Other stuff, like software, is on a T5 and on a T7. Works like a charm but
that is on a I7 mini. I don't know how this would work on an M1 series.
I have a M1 MBair and this one has a Sandisk for extra data and also works
great if I play/edit video's from it (DJI Drone recordings).


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## HCMarkus (Jul 5, 2022)

I recently moved from a 5,1 12 core to Mac Studio Ultra in my recording studio.

*5,1 was set up like this:*

Internal SATA 1TB SSD Boot

Internal NVMe PCIe SSD 1TB Working Audio Projects

2 x Internal 1TB SATA SSD Virtual Instrument Sample Data

Internal SATA 500GB Photos and Misc

Internal 4TB Project Archive Drive

2 x Internal 3TB Daily Manual Audio Project Backup Hard Drives

External Time Machine 8TB HD

BackBlaze Cloud Backup


*New Mac Studio set up like this:*

Internal 2TB NVMe SSD - Boot, Docs and Working Projects (2 APFS Volumes)

External 2TB OWC Envoy Express NVMe Samsung 970 EVO Plus - VI Sample Data

External USB3.1 1TB SATA SSD - Working Project Backup

External USB3.1 500GB SATA SSD - Photos

External USB3.0 Drive Caddy - SATA HD and SSD Swap Port

External 8TB HD - Project Archive

External 8TB HD - Time Machine

BackBlaze Cloud Backup

I've always used USB-connected external hard drives for Time Machine backups. That strategy continues with 8TB Seagate drives, recently available at Costco for $120/each.

The Mac Studio had no issues with USB3.1 external SSD Cases. They simply work every time. They are connected via non-powered USB 3.0 hubs but are still plenty fast.

With two displays and a Thunderbolt Audio Interface, I've got almost every port of the Mac Studio Ultra utilized. It has been absolutely fantastic, running Digital Performer 11.11 Apple Silicon Native.


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## emilio_n (Jul 5, 2022)

I am working with a Mac Studio Ultra with 2TB internal SSD, 16TB of SSD in a Thunderbay Mini (Very silent) and a Synology NAS (Very noisy) for backup and archive. 
I am a photographer and videographer as well, so I need a lot of space.
Advice: If you get a Thunderbay or something similar with several drives, avoid RAID.


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## ckett (Jul 5, 2022)

OWC Thunderbay mini user here as well with my Mac Studio. I tried out the NVme idea but those drives get really hot! Not sure if the speed difference is worth it for my uses. The Thunderbay Mini has been totally solid, no random disconnects. I unplugged the fan so it is all running silently. SATA SSDs run very cool by themselves, the fan really isnt necessary.


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## Nimrod7 (Jul 5, 2022)

ckett said:


> I unplugged the fan so it is all running silently. SATA SSDs run very cool by themselves, the fan really isnt necessary.


That's super interesting to hear. What SSDs are you using? 
Is it configured in RAID?


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## ckett (Jul 5, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> That's super interesting to hear. What SSDs are you using?
> Is it configured in RAID?


I am running Samsung SATA SSDs. Three of them for now. No RAID. I used to use a Blackmagic MultiDock but switched to the thunder bay for the Thunderbolt connection. The Multidock was completely passive as well, no fans.


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## Nimrod7 (Jul 5, 2022)

ckett said:


> I am running Samsung SATA SSDs. Three of them for now. No RAID. I used to use a Blackmagic MultiDock but switched to the thunder bay for the Thunderbolt connection. The Multidock was completely passive as well, no fans.


Awesome thanks! I will try getting a Thunderbay and some SSDs in the next days.
It will be simplify my setup a lot (no more hanging T7s behind the mac)!


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## ckett (Jul 5, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> Awesome thanks! I will try getting a Thunderbay and some SSDs in the next days.
> It will be simplify my setup a lot (no more hanging T7s behind the mac)!


Awesome! That was another reason for getting one, simple all in one unit.


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## mercury (Jul 5, 2022)

ckett said:


> OWC Thunderbay mini user here as well with my Mac Studio. I tried out the NVme idea but those drives get really hot! Not sure if the speed difference is worth it for my uses. The Thunderbay Mini has been totally solid, no random disconnects. I unplugged the fan so it is all running silently. SATA SSDs run very cool by themselves, the fan really isnt necessary.


This is good to hear about the Thunderbay Mini as I'm seriously considering getting it. Whats your SSD configuration inside the Thunderbay Mini? Are the SSDs all sample libraries, or is one sample libraries, another projects, another system back up?
If I get one this is what I was thinking of doing, pretty much how it is my Mac Pro 
1 - Samples/libraries 
2 - Projects
3 - System back up 
4 - not sure yet (would be system drive in Mac Pro)

And then use externals as back ups e.g. for the projects, sample libraries and whatever else.

Was the speed difference between Nvme and internal SSD not worth the extra layout for the NVMe?


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## ckett (Jul 5, 2022)

mercury said:


> This is good to hear about the Thunderbay Mini as I'm seriously considering getting it. Whats your SSD configuration inside the Thunderbay Mini? Are the SSDs all sample libraries, or is one sample libraries, another projects, another system back up?
> If I get one this is what I was thinking of doing, pretty much how it is my Mac Pro
> 1 - Samples/libraries
> 2 - Projects
> ...


1TB - Cubase Projects
2TB - Sample Libraries
4TB - Backup Drive for all files from Mac and external drives listed above.


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## mercury (Jul 5, 2022)

emilio_n said:


> I am working with a Mac Studio Ultra with 2TB internal SSD, 16TB of SSD in a Thunderbay Mini (Very silent) and a Synology NAS (Very noisy) for backup and archive.
> I am a photographer and videographer as well, so I need a lot of space.
> Advice: If you get a Thunderbay or something similar with several drives, avoid RAID.


Nice, you got the Ultra in the end! My Max 64GB is on order, going from Mac Pro 1.1 with Lion should be an eye opener. 
Glad you said avoid RAID, as I would set it up as 4 independent drives, plus you said it was very silent as well which us good too hear.


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## mercury (Jul 5, 2022)

ckett said:


> 1TB - Cubase Projects
> 2TB - Sample Libraries
> 4TB - Backup Drive for all files from Mac and external drives listed above.


Nice, having an enclosure really 


Nimrod7 said:


> Awesome thanks! I will try getting a Thunderbay and some SSDs in the next days.
> It will be simplify my setup a lot (no more hanging T7s behind the mac)!


Yeah there'd be no more drives hanging to the Mac


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## Nimrod7 (Jul 5, 2022)

emilio_n said:


> avoid RAID.


Can you talk a bit about it? What’s your experience?

I was thinking RAID will unlock the full speed of the bay (I believe it’s around 1500MB/s), and if I need redundancy I can configure it in Raid5 in case a drive fails.


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## mercury (Jul 5, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> Can you talk a bit about it? What’s your experience?
> 
> I was thinking RAID will unlock the full speed of the bay (I believe it’s around 1500MB/s), and if I need redundancy I can configure it in Raid5 in case a drive fails.


If the drive was configured in RAID5 or any RAID, does that mean all the drives in the enclosure have to be for sample library drives?


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## Nimrod7 (Jul 5, 2022)

mercury said:


> If the drive was configured in RAID5 or any RAID, does that mean all the drives in the enclosure have to be for sample library drives?


It’s a single volume, but you can put whatever you want in it.
I don’t thing the performance degrades with the number or the type of files.

I have a RAID synology NAS and it’s hitting crazy speeds with millions of files.


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## method1 (Jul 5, 2022)

I have never used RAID, always kept separate internal volumes, now that I have a Mac Studio I'm looking at options, is it possible to use a thunderbay to host multiple separate volumes, i.e plug in my old drives and keep them as they are, or is some kind of RAID always involved?


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## jblongz (Jul 5, 2022)

With some 2TB NVME drives being the same price as 2.5”, NVME is a no brained for that capacity. When you neee 4TB+, it’s a different story.

I recently bought this NVME and enclosure and it works great.


PNY CS1030 2TB M.2 NVMe PCIe Gen3... 

SABRENT USB 3.2 Type-C Tool-Free...


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## IFM (Jul 5, 2022)

I was using the Tunderbay (I have two but one is a different brand, same setup though) on my Mac Pro 6,1. I however decided to go with a single 8TB internal on the Mac Studio and am sure glad I did as loading times feel near-instant with my sample libraries now. Nothing external was going to come close. I am just keeping a separate project SSD in the Tunderbay that way I'm not constantly writing to the internal drive of the Studio.

So if you can keep your libraries to a minimum you could do both...4TB internal and put your major libraries on it that you will use all the time and put the "extras" on an external drive. I'll be doing something similar as I'll be moving little-used libraries off the internal to an external and making room for more that I will use consistently.


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## emilio_n (Jul 5, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> Can you talk a bit about it? What’s your experience?
> 
> I was thinking RAID will unlock the full speed of the bay (I believe it’s around 1500MB/s), and if I need redundancy I can configure it in Raid5 in case a drive fails.


This was my idea too so I tried with a RAID 0 with the 4 SSDs. I thought the speed will be great and have only one big volume will be better to manage the libraries and the backups.

I don’t know if the problem was the SoftRaid of OWC, The Mac Studio or Monterey but I had two big problems:
- the Mac Studio can't switch off or restart properly.
- My VSL libraries don't like the RAID and can't play.

I decided to start from zero without RAID and now everything is ok.
The SoftRaid of OWC requires to change the access to the kernel on the Bios of the Mac. I also not comfortable with this and the SoftRaid app is horrible.


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## rnb_2 (Jul 5, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> Can you talk a bit about it? What’s your experience?
> 
> I was thinking RAID will unlock the full speed of the bay (I believe it’s around 1500MB/s), and if I need redundancy I can configure it in Raid5 in case a drive fails.


In a thread a few months ago, someone posted some benchmarks for RAID vs single drives (not specifically with the Thunderbay), and the RAID seemed to not work well with sample libraries - I think it was sometimes slower than the single drives (possibly because samples are lots of small files). I still have SoftRAID installed on my M1 Pro MacBook Pro, but the OWC enclosure is rarely connected (it's at my second desk, which I'm not using much these days).

My MBP does have issues restarting, but it shuts down fine, so if I need to restart, I just shut down and then open the screen a bit to start it back up. Not sure if it's a SoftRAID issue or not, but I've been using SoftRAID for many years on different Macs and have always been happy with it. That said, it might not be the best option for sample drives.


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