# OS X Catalina and 5,1 macpro



## Dewdman42 (Jun 4, 2019)

word on the street is cheesegraters won’t be able to run Catalina.

Thoughts?


----------



## Zero&One (Jun 4, 2019)

Mine can't run Mojave. Positive I've not missed anything exciting either


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 4, 2019)

Well i do have to say performance on my 5,1 cheese grater improved 20% according to geekbench, under Mojave. I think the Metal card made a difference. The 5,1 still keeps up on Mojave, its entirely disappointing to me that Apple will drop it out of further OS updates. I can't see any technical reason why either.

I am sure I will get a few more years of service out of my 5,1 hot rodded cheese grater, its not an imminent problem. But I do think Apple has not really provided a path moving forward and now they have drawn a line in the sand about terminating the last decent Mac I am willing to use until further notice. I don't like any of the mini's, iMac's or MBP's. I depend on PCIe. The new Pro is priced into the stratosphere. we shall see what Apple does in the next couple years and there is time to wait and see for sure, but unless a more reasonable prosumer path is laid out, the obvious choice for myself, and probably some others, will be to reconsider PC windows again.


----------



## Zero&One (Jun 4, 2019)

I feel your pain. I'll soldier on with this relic until it dies, then I'll have to make a decision.

Logic is the only reason I've stopped with them. I don't use iCalc, iFace, iTunes, iEye or any of the crap they offer. But I do love Logic. Same with Windows... I use Steam and Chrome.
As with any system, I've yet to meet someone who logged off and said "Ooo, what I lovely OS session I just had". I couldn't care, as long as it's stable and the actual program I'm using is good.

As cliché as it is, as long as people are willing to pay these crazy prices they'll continue to charge them.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 4, 2019)

I really like Logic quite a lot in certain ways, but there are certain annoyances too and lately I've been quite impressed with StudioOne...and even Cubase were it not for the poor mac performance. There are lots of options, can always keep an old mac around to load old Logic projects if and when needed. 

On the Windows vs OSX question..well...no question I love OSX a lot more then windows and not by a close margin. I was a unix developer in my previous life and windows rubs me the wrong way nearly every day I am forced to use it, even on the good days and on the bad days I want to shoot the computer. OSX is so much better, and for me just a joy to use at every level, including at the command line and many other ways. I am not looking forward to wrestling with MS Windows again....I truly hope Apple will come up with a better mid tier prosumer solution between now and when I have to think about that. For now...I will soldier on with my 5,1 also. Hell I was on Sierra until just a few weeks ago..I'm sure I can run Mojave at least 30 more months before I have to make a bigger decision.


----------



## Zero&One (Jun 4, 2019)

We can start a savings fund over the next year. 

I'll have it during the week... you can have it on the weekend.
Be like a really expensive kid neither of us want full custody of :D


----------



## VidPlayVST (Jun 8, 2019)

Apple just want to churn people constantly through new hardware and software to keep the cash tills ringing. Their policy of 'upgrading' macOS every year shows that they don't really care about 3rd party software companies developing for their platform. Even major companies like Steinberg have had to rush out fixes at short notice. Each year I wonder if my plugin (built in 10.8 Mountain Lion) is going to keep on working.


----------



## nordicguy (Jun 8, 2019)

Here's some info (more coming up later...)
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pr...g-for-macos-1015-catalina-what-we-know-so-far


----------



## Dewdman42 (Oct 16, 2019)

Here's what MeldaProductions has to say about Catalina this morning:





__





My Hero Email Template Subject






www.meldaproduction.com







> ".......This may be a good time to review your options and consider switching to a different platform....."


----------



## goalie composer (Oct 16, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> Here's what MeldaProductions has to say about Catalina this morning:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the article!


----------



## redlester (Oct 17, 2019)

Given the difficulties I've had with installing the two or three Melda products I have on Mac, I'm not surprised they favour Windows. Their help desk must get innundated with Mac users who can't install. Not simply a Gatekeeper issue, it just wouldn't run the intaller at all on High Sierra. The answer in the end was to move their installer into the Applications folder and run it from there.


----------



## redlester (Oct 17, 2019)

VidPlayVST said:


> Apple just want to churn people constantly through new hardware and software to keep the cash tills ringing.



Agree about the hardware but at least they don't charge for the OS, unlike Windows. One could argue the cost of it is included in the high price of the hardware and am sure they factor that in.

I'm 60 now and in my youth people seemed to be much more cynical about the concept of "built in obsolesence". These days it seems to be treated as if its a good thing for the consumer and exciting in some way, probably dating back to the start of people queueing outside stores overnight for the new iPhone releases. Now, all that is accepted as standard, and it seems perfectly normal that the iPhone XS that I've had for less than a year is already obsolete. It's all rather depressing.

But it's far from just Apple. And to be fair, they exist to make profit, and as much of it as possible, they are a business.


----------



## dbudde (Oct 17, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> word on the street is cheesegraters won’t be able to run Catalina.
> 
> Thoughts?


There are workarounds...









macOS 10.15 Catalina on Unsupported Macs


How to update Catalina Machine Support Video Card Support Pre-Metal AMD video cards (Radeon HD 6xxx series and older without acceleration, Radeon HD 4xxx series and older with acceleration.) Pre-Metal Nvidia video cards (GeForce 5xx series and older without acceleration, GeForce 3xx...




forums.macrumors.com


----------



## Dewdman42 (Oct 17, 2019)

Let us know how that goes if you try it. I have followed that discussion on macrumors for a bit...I do think 5,1's can be made to run Catalina now, but I also think we have a lot of other compelling reasons to avoid Catalina for now.

Myself personally, after all the news has come out about all the changes in Catalina and warnings from nearly every audio manufacturer to avoid it for now.... I basically don't see myself ever going past Mojave on my 5,1. I think we will need to see 2-3 years to see the smoke clear and the dust settle on new architectural changes to OSX starting with Catalina (regardless of the hardware being used)...

and by then...well I will be looking to upgrade from my 5,1 to something else anyway. Actually the changes Apple is brining into Catalina and talking about locking down the OS so much more, I foresee that hackintoshes in general are going to struggle in the next version of OSX (and beyond). And the 5,1 has officially become a hackintosh as of Catalina, but even more so in the next version when KEXT's will go away in particular. 

There is a good possibility that it will not work at all on the next version of OSX...or the version after that. I think 5,1 MacPro should probably stay on Mojave until you can't run any meaningful software on Mojave anymore...then turn it into a file server or something.


----------



## dbudde (Oct 17, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> Let us know how that goes if you try it.



I've used this on a 2008 MacBook Pro for Mojave and High Sierra without issue. I don't have that machine anymore so won't be doing it for Catalina.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 17, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> Here's what MeldaProductions has to say about Catalina this morning:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is it possible they have an axe to grind?

My question is why so many people feel the need to change their systems all the time.

Well, I know why - because we were conditioned to do that for 20 years. But nowadays?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 17, 2019)

Having said that, I do like Mojave.

The best thing about it is the Shift-Command-5 screen capture feature, which now includes options to capture moving screens, open dumps in Preview, and a lot more.


----------



## Wunderhorn (Oct 17, 2019)

Why in the world does anyone at this point in time need Catalina?

What does it offer? iTunes split up, woohoo, iPad apps can be ported to MacOS, ok, well... but efficiency? Speed? More stability? Better system sound routing? Improved workflow? Nada.
Instead nerve-racking safety bondage to let every last professional user know that in the eyes of Apple we are all babies.
Apple, first you gotta give me at least resumable file copy in the Finder.... then we can talk about some of your other gimmicks.


----------



## sinkd (Oct 17, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> Well i do have to say performance on my 5,1 cheese grater improved 20% according to geekbench, under Mojave. I think the Metal card made a difference. The 5,1 still keeps up on Mojave, its entirely disappointing to me that Apple will drop it out of further OS updates. I can't see any technical reason why either.
> 
> I am sure I will get a few more years of service out of my 5,1 hot rodded cheese grater, its not an imminent problem. But I do think Apple has not really provided a path moving forward and now they have drawn a line in the sand about terminating the last decent Mac I am willing to use until further notice. I don't like any of the mini's, iMac's or MBP's. I depend on PCIe. The new Pro is priced into the stratosphere. we shall see what Apple does in the next couple years and there is time to wait and see for sure, but unless a more reasonable prosumer path is laid out, the obvious choice for myself, and probably some others, will be to reconsider PC windows again.


How about getting a used trashcan (2013) and then re-deploy the 'grater as a slave. I'm in the same boat.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Oct 17, 2019)

I'm sticking with the grater for at least 2-3 more years. It does everything I need right now. I am also depending on PCI technology at the moment, so I can't switch to trashcan. By the time I am ready to throw in the towel on this grater, I think the 2013 trashcan will be yesterday's news also, so I don't see any point in transitioning through the trashcan on my way to the next thing. i will continue using the grater until I am unable to run the latest Logic on it or whatever...then I will consider my options at that time where to go next. I think its 3 more years with the grater as main machine, maybe 5. Or maybe in 2-3 years I'll acquire a new main m machine and transition the grater the slave...or maybe just use it in my office as a whatever desktop. I personally think it has many years of use left in it...running Mojave will be just fine. If I had to I could install bootcamp and windows on it and run the latest Windows OS even though Apple won't let me use the latest OSX hehe. Whatever, too soon to say what I will do that far out, but for the next 2-3 years I can say for sure it will continue to be my main computer and DAW computer, and what happens after that is too early to predict.


----------



## InLight-Tone (Oct 17, 2019)

James H said:


> Mine can't run Mojave. Positive I've not missed anything exciting either


Dark Mode, that's it...


----------



## sherief83 (Oct 17, 2019)

The one thing that made absolute difference on my 5,1 is the 8GB RX580 I put in it. the CPUs don't run as hard anymore thanks to Metal. Highly recommended if you're still running the stock GPU that came with your 5,1


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 17, 2019)

sherief83 said:


> The one thing that made absolute difference on my 5,1 is the 8GB RX580 I put in it. the CPUs don't run as hard anymore thanks to Metal. Highly recommended if you're still running the stock GPU that came with your 5,1



Really?

I'm not saying you're wrong, and I know programs can use Metal for stuff I have no idea about, but I'd be very surprised if there was a meaningful CPU difference between graphics cards if you're running music and audio.



InLight-Tone said:


> Dark Mode, that's it...



Mojave also has that screen capture stuff I mentioned, as well as Stacks - another very useful feature.

It's also very solid, not that Sierra wasn't before it (I only used High Sierra on the way to installing Mojave, so I don't know).


----------



## Dewdman42 (Oct 17, 2019)

sherief83 said:


> The one thing that made absolute difference on my 5,1 is the 8GB RX580 I put in it. the CPUs don't run as hard anymore thanks to Metal. Highly recommended if you're still running the stock GPU that came with your 5,1



i had the same experience when moving to Mojave from Sierra. I bench marked the difference and the scores were 20% higher, everything ran better. I also got feedback from VSL that VePro ran better on their machines on Mojave also...and they speculated also that this was likely partly due to the new graphics card and OSX Mojave taking advantage of Metal in some ways that relieve work from the CPU.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 18, 2019)

For people like me who use the desktop as a file until it gets too messy and I just throw everything into a folder named Desktop Slop, Stacks really is a great feature.


----------

