# Anyone ever score a film just with Sibelius?



## dcoscina (Mar 14, 2010)

So I'm sure some people have done this when they know real musicians will eventually perform the finished bit but how about those just using sampled libraries? Is Sibelius 6 flexible enough to get performances and a fluidity that would be organic and real or do you think you must export to a DAW like Logic, DP or whatever (I'm a Mac guy if you hadn't guessed).


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## bryla (Mar 14, 2010)

Last time I checked Sibelius didn't have automation, which leaves it inadequate for 'organic' music...


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## MikeH (Mar 14, 2010)

Hi Dave,
You bring up an interesting subject that I was actually thinking about the other day. With Sibelius 6 in ReWire mode, isn't it possible to sync it with Digital Performer and use DP as the tempo map/video display and then one can just compose directly in Sibelius? I have Sibelius 5 and that's one area that has kept me from trying to do my film stuff strictly in Sibelius because of the need for more fluid tempo changes, etc. Of course I could go in and manually insert quarter note = such and such for every small tempo adjustment, but I would rather craft the tempo map in DP, sync them together, and then just compose in Sibelius. Is this possible in v.6?

Michael


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## Hannes_F (Mar 15, 2010)

I am using Overture for composing which has (I believe) even more sophisticated midi abilities than Sibelius or Finale. But still in comparision to a DAW it pales. What I would miss most if I used it alone are advanced mixing features like setting up busses, sends, fader automation, FX automation, incorporation of wave audio.

What I do is I pipe my midi from Overture into Reaper with MidiYoke and MidiOverLan and mangle it from there, so I can have both worlds. Maybe you could do something similar.


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## JohnG (Mar 20, 2010)

This raises a very ticklish point because indirectly it raises a question about whether "it's the notes" or "it's the sound" when one is confined to electronics only. 

Elliott Goldenthal, in a now very old interview, says that when he's restricted to electronics (which maybe then he was) he goes straight to the computer and keyboard to compose. While I don't remember his specifying whether he uses a notation or sequencing program, he seemed to imply that he viewed it as a very different exercise. More narrowly, he clearly felt that, while one has the constraints of doing without the expressiveness of the players, one has to make the most of the electronics.

James Newton Howard, about 10 years ago, said something of the same thing in an interview.

For a few years, I tried writing with Finale only. For me, however, notation just doesn't provide enough midi-massaging on its own to make electronics sound musical in most situations, and it wasn't fast enough. I use the notation within the sequencer to write, sometimes directly, sometimes not. And I use pencil and paper to make little lead sheets, which also are very important in a long score so that the material remains consistent.


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## Hannes_F (Mar 20, 2010)

dcoscina @ Sat Mar 20 said:


> I have Overture 3 and the lack of AU/VST support for Macs has left me rather pissed off at the developer for leaving this untouched for so long. He promised this way back in 2005 for Christ's sake.



The Overture ship has been pretty much sunk until lately when some new updates were published. But what I wanted to say is: Even with the probably more sophisticated midi abilities of Overture (on a PC) it would not be enough, so I think a second step for mixing is obligatory when working in Finale and Sibelius as well.


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## dcoscina (Mar 20, 2010)

That Goldenthal interview was in EQ magazine and I actually have that issue. He said that when it was a scene that required a lot of hit points to be caught, he would bring up the video and play things into DP while looking at the characters. For full blown thematic scenes, he said he wrote at the piano. Mind you, Goldenthal's compositional process was carved on traditional methodology and he was still applying those skills when he was using DAWs. Same goes for Jimmy Horner. They know composing in and out and use DAWs simply as a shortcut to realizing their ideas. Even John Adams uses DP. 

Most recently, Horner advocated Sibelius 6 when working on Avatar. I think Sibelius and NOTION are becoming closer to a perfect blend of notation composition software and DAW with greater performance parameters. I scored a short cue in Sibelius 6 and I loved being able to look at the hit point and work out how to shape the lines that built up to that moment without worrying about having the video distract me. 

For decades film composers worked this way and we have some of the most amazing music to show for it. Conversely, the methodology of improvising to picture has left us largely bereft of the same quality in music. Not completely mind you (the aforementioned composers and a few others are the exception).


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## JohnG (Mar 20, 2010)

actually, David, the interview I had was an extremely long interview that I bought on CD -- over an hour. It wasn't a print article and it wasn't just about catching hits -- it was clearly more about how he worked with computers. Also, it was possibly a bit before he'd become such a monster force in film scoring, so he may at that time still have had to make do a bit more with computers than later on.

He really got into the subject of process in a Q and A -- I think it was a student talk, maybe at NYU?


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## dcoscina (Mar 20, 2010)

cool then! Goldenthal was such an exciting composer when he hit the scene in the '90s. I remember hating Alien3 the film but loving the music.


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## Garlu (Mar 20, 2010)

Alf Clausen writes directly with Sibelius, nothing else. 

He is amazing. I attended his Simpsons session yesterday in FOX Studios, and it was incredible! He is such a talented composer and such a nice guy. :D


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## bryla (Mar 20, 2010)

Yes, but a live orchestra records it. The question is about having the audio extract from Sibelius being the final product printed to the reel, right?


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## dcoscina (Mar 20, 2010)

Er, sorry I actually was just wondering from a compositional standpoint, not a finished product POV. So there are some that do write this way. Cool.


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## bryla (Mar 20, 2010)

Oh okay... then disregard my posts so far  I'll add that I know a handful or so personally that only compose in Sibelius for film


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## JohnG (Mar 20, 2010)

actually, I totally misunderstood the question as well.

But the one Thomas B and I answered is still interesting!


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