# Logic Update 10.6.2 fixes timing issue with high latency plugins..



## nightjar (Apr 27, 2021)

Logic Update 10.6.2 fixes timing issue with high latency plugins..

Yep... side-chain routing and automation involving high latency plug-ins are now happy campers.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 27, 2021)

Serious!?


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Apr 27, 2021)

And yet no update appears in my App Store at all...


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## eakwarren (Apr 27, 2021)

Ooh! New toys! It appeared for me and I just downloaded.










Release Notes state:
New in Logic Pro 10.6.2​New features and enhancements

Fixes an issue where high latency plug-ins could cause timing issues for side-chain routing and automation.
Stability and reliability

Fixes an issue where Logic Pro may quit unexpectedly when using Bass Amp Designer under Rosetta 2 on a Mac with Apple silicon.
Improved stability when using Audio Units running natively on a Mac with Apple silicon.
Logic Pro no longer becomes unresponsive when quickly changing presets on the Vintage Organ.
Resolves an issue where Logic Pro could quit unexpectedly when renaming Arrangement Markers after a Marker Set has been created
Logic Pro no longer quits unexpectedly when Explode Folders is selected for a folder in the Score.
Performance

Large sample-based instruments now load more quickly.
The playhead no longer appears to be stuck when playback is started after the computer wakes from sleep.
Performance is improved in large projects in which the Console 1 Lua script is installed.
Sampler and Quick Sampler

Manually created slices in Quick Sampler are now properly assigned to pads when converted to a Drum Machine Designer kit.
Optimizing the Loop Start/End in Quick Sampler now updates the loop playback range as expected.
Automating Smart Controls to modulate Envelope 1 Attack in Sampler now sounds correct when the display shows the value returned to 0.
Live Loops

MIDI Live Loops cells that are set to Play from Playhead Position now play back in sync when triggered while the project is playing.
Plug-ins

Resolves an issue in which some multi-output Audio Unit software instruments showed more outputs than were actually available.
MIDI effect Audio Unit plug-ins running natively on a Mac with Apple silicon now output MIDI as expected.
Controls View is now available on Audio Units running natively on on a Mac with Apple silicon.
Performance is improved when streaming audio to Elektron hardware using the Elektron Overbridge plug-in.
Mixer

The Mixer now displays correctly after Hide buttons on several tracks have been enabled.
Content

Time Machine volumes can no longer be selected as the destination when relocating the Sound Library.
Resolves an issue in which relocating the Sound Library to an external drive was not possible.
Automation

Automation of toggled parameters for Audio Unit plug-ins now work as expected.
Export and bounce

Regions that are bounced in place are now named based on the Track, rather than the Channel Strip.
Fades

Edits applied with the Fade tool to multiple selected regions now work as expected.
Smart Controls

Fixes an issue where touching the Limiter level parameter in the Smart Controls can cause an unexpected drop in level.
Track Stacks

The names of sub-tracks in a software instrument track stack now display properly.
MIDI controllers and control surfaces

Resolves several issues with Lua script support for control surfaces.
When a Drum Machine Designer track is selected, control surfaces now display the channel strip as Drum Machine Designer instead of displaying the name of the audio plug-in on the first insert slot.
General

If the left and right locators are set to the same position and Cycle is enabled, putting Logic Pro into play mode now disables Cycle.
Fixes an issue where the playhead might not respond correctly after the Mac wakes from sleep.
A highlighted Marquee section is now dismissed after it is Option-dragged to copy the selection.
Marquee selections are now deselected after the Repeat function is used.


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## Sheridan (Apr 27, 2021)

Noooooo... Just downloaded and checked and the PDC bug that lots of people have been flagging is not fixed  I don't know what bug Apple think they have fixed, maybe that was another different issue.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Apr 27, 2021)

Interesting...

I had to navigate to the Logic Pro Application in my account before it showed me the update
Still does not show in the updates section of my App Store, only when I go to the product in the App Store


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 27, 2021)

Sheridan said:


> Noooooo... Just downloaded and checked and the PDC bug that lots of people have been flagging is not fixed  I don't know what bug Apple think they have fixed, maybe that was another different issue.



which specific problem are you referring to?


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## Nimrod7 (Apr 27, 2021)

eakwarren said:


> Performance
> 
> Large sample-based instruments now load more quickly.


I am wondering about this one actually. Is it just for the internal sampler instruments, or improves other engines as Kontakt or Sine.

Super interesting, I can check tomorrow, if anyone has seen an improvement please let us know!


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## Sheridan (Apr 27, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> which specific problem are you referring to?


This one:

https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=135038

https://gearspace.com/board/apple-l...letely-ignored-apple-logic-x-programmers.html


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 27, 2021)

There are a lot of posts on the internet with lots of slightly different descriptions related to PDC problems, can you please describe EXACTLY the scenario which you say still doesn't work? Apple says they fixed something, so presumably some of those endless posts on the internet will have been fixed. What is the exact scenario you still have a problem. Just want to identify it precisely.


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## Sheridan (Apr 27, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> There are a lot of posts on the internet with lots of slightly different descriptions related to PDC problems, can you please describe EXACTLY the scenario which you say still doesn't work? Apple says they fixed something, so presumably some of those endless posts on the internet will have been fixed. What is the exact scenario you still have a problem. Just want to identify it precisely.


This scenario:

create track “audio 1”
create track “audio 2”
route track “audio 1” over “bus 1” to “aux 1”
insert latency inducing plugin “Linear Phase EQ” into “aux 1”
route “aux 1” over “bus 2” to “aux 2”
route track “audio 2” over “bus 3” to “aux 3”
insert plugin “Compressor” to “aux 3”
change side chain of the compressor to “bus 2”
put a identical drum-loop on both tracks
result: audio 1 <-> audio 2 are NOT in sync


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 27, 2021)

I suspect that the problem you're having is not related to the side chain but rather related to the chain of AUX routing...but I'm gonna try it right now. Thanks for explaining it.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 27, 2021)

Yea I get same result as you. Well...dissapointing... This still may be more related to AUX's feeding other AUX's..I have to think about it a minute. It might be sorta unresolvable issue. Not sure what exactly Apple claims they fixed in the 10.6.2 regarding PDC side chaining..but anyway, I think in the past there have been a lot of different scenarios related to PDC which have been broken.

I sure hope they fixed automation...that was a biggie..


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 27, 2021)

I also can't think of any reason that LogicPro shouldn't be able to resolve the PDC in that situation. 

So yea I agree, bug not fixed. Not sure what they think they fixed.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 27, 2021)

want to point something else out though.. Part of the issue here is related to aux feeding another AUX. If you, for example, put the EQ plugin on the first audio channel and feed Bus1 directly to the sidechain from there...and feed bus 1 also to AUX2 track... everything is in sync 

So the problem is side chain yea, but its also related to the nature of the latent plugin being on an AUX channel being used in between to feed the sidechain also. That is a crucial part of this bug which may have been overlooked by Apple.

I still think this is resolvable, but I think Apple is somehow overlooking the details of the issue. Just imagine how many confusing and conflicting reports they have received over the years on PDC problems. And things do get messy when AUX's are feeding other AUX's. In some cases it might not be resolvable, though I think in this test case it could be.


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## jcrosby (Apr 27, 2021)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> And yet no update appears in my App Store at all...


It's been this way for a few versions... You now have to navigate to the Logic app and update there. (Which I personally find a bit silly...)


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## Sheridan (Apr 28, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> want to point something else out though.. Part of the issue here is related to aux feeding another AUX. If you, for example, put the EQ plugin on the first audio channel and feed Bus1 directly to the sidechain from there...and feed bus 1 also to AUX2 track... everything is in sync
> 
> So the problem is side chain yea, but its also related to the nature of the latent plugin being on an AUX channel being used in between to feed the sidechain also. That is a crucial part of this bug which may have been overlooked by Apple.
> 
> I still think this is resolvable, but I think Apple is somehow overlooking the details of the issue. Just imagine how many confusing and conflicting reports they have received over the years on PDC problems. And things do get messy when AUX's are feeding other AUX's. In some cases it might not be resolvable, though I think in this test case it could be.


I tried the same scenario in Cubase (with Group tracks instead of Auxes obviously) and Cubase plays the two tracks in sync, even with very high latency plug-ins in the side-chain path.


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## Kent (Apr 28, 2021)

Sheridan said:


> Noooooo... Just downloaded and checked and the PDC bug that lots of people have been flagging is not fixed  I don't know what bug Apple think they have fixed, maybe that was another different issue.


aw man, this is what I thought they were talking about...


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 28, 2021)

Someone on another forum has also reported that the automation pdc problems were not fixed either.

As I tried to explain earlier I think the pdc problems in logicpro are related to auxes feeding auxes and apple may still be overlooking that detail


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## charlieclouser (Apr 28, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> As I tried to explain earlier I think the pdc problems in logicpro are related to auxes feeding auxes and apple may still be overlooking that detail


More accurately, I think the issues occur when using ASYMMETRICAL layouts of Busses and Auxes. In my template I have individual audio tracks and instruments routed to Busses, which are the source for Auxes which are my stem sub-masters. Those Auxes have their outputs set to go to hardware outputs. Then, via Sends on those sub-master Auxes, I feed a composite mix Buss, which is the source for a final set of Auxes that also feed hardware outputs.

All of my stem sub-master Auxes have plugins - sometimes high-latency ones like Ozone with IRC IV, etc.

I have never had issues with either PDC on individual tracks, on the stem sub-masters, or anywhere else. I've also never had issues with side-chaining or automation being out of sync.

Maybe it's because I never do that lop-sided thing described in post #11 on this thread where some elements are going Bus1 > Aux1 > Bus2 > Aux2 while other elements are just going Aux3 > Bus3. All of my elements go to the same AMOUNT of Busses and Auxes. Could this be why I've never experienced these issues?

I've used this basic layout for 20 years and never had the issues that are plaguing many users.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 28, 2021)

Exactly. It’s something along those lines. I’d still like to see apple fix this but I don’t think the actually true problem has been accurately identified exactly yet and it might turn out to be a large internal architectural change in pdc would be required to get around a design problem in the pdc.

If we can identify a repeatable scenario such as Charlie just proposed to a specific way auxes are used, first we can start some memes about specific usage patterns to avoid in logicpro, but also maybe apple will finally get the memo about what they need to fix in pdc


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## charlieclouser (Apr 28, 2021)

I realize that many users who make more elaborate use of Track Stacks, or who create Auxes and Busses on the fly - either to make use of separate audio outputs from Kontakt or drum sampler plugins, or just to deal with unruly collections of audio tracks - will probably be banging their heads against these PDC issues on the daily.

Maybe I haven't experienced this stuff because I work from templates that have all of the audio pathways set in stone, I never use multi-out instruments, and I don't use Summing Stacks (only Folder Stacks). All I do is occasionally change a track's output from Bus X to Bus Y, but I never build new Auxes on the fly. Also I have "Automatic Management of Channel Strips" or whatever that Preference is called turned OFF so that Logic won't be auto-creating new audio pathways by itself. If I do make the switch to using Summing Stacks I will take the same approach that I took to building my current array of stem sub-masters - I'll build out symmetrical bricks for each group of tracks, specifically to avoid a situation where some elements are going through two busses in series while others are going through three or whatever.

The benefits of working from a massive template, built in the Environment, rather than building that stuff on the fly I guess. Or just a benefit of being an old guy who thinks the whole native-audio house of cards is way more fragile than it actually is? Maybe it's just being gun-shy from years of working in non-PDC systems and manually lining tracks up against analog tape while staring at a Russian Dragon at 3am.... *shudder*


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 28, 2021)

So getting on this a little bit.... see if we can figure out precisely the problem, and work around....

I took the above scenario that was mentioned earlier...



Sheridan said:


> This scenario:
> 
> create track “audio 1”
> create track “audio 2”
> ...



That results in two parallel signal chains that look like this:







So I was able to get pdc sync two ways so far:


move the EQ to AudioCh1, eliminating the extra AUX channel. Doing that resolved PDC issue. As Charlie noted, this could be because path one had more auxes in a chain than path two.







I put an instance of Expert Sleepers Latency Fixer on AUX2. Configured it for 53ms. This also resolved the issue!







Point #2 may give us some insight. But I'm not 100% sure yet what that insight is...

_Note that in the above scenario, if you remove the side-chain, the two un-symmetrical AUX signal chains play in sync. So using the side-chain here somehow induces the problem._


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 28, 2021)

I started a thread on the LogicPro forum to discuss this particular PDC problem a little more deeply...









Getting to the bottom of PDC bug


So in light of the recent release 10.6.2 which alleged to fix the long standing PDC problems, but didn't.... I'd like to try to get to the bottom of this a little deeper...perhaps we can identify more exactly and accurately the problem so that hopefully Apple will take another crack at fixing it,...




www.logicprohelp.com





The LatencyFixer trick I mentioned above, only partially works...in that case the actual pumping of the compressor would be out of sync, even though the the final mixing of the two signals would be properly in phase.


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## jcrosby (Apr 28, 2021)

I'm wondering if Live's similar issue holds some insight to some of the engineering quirks happening behind the scenes that may be involved with this... For example If you use a return in Live as a sidechain source and the return has a plugin that introduces latency it results in the same behavior.... A sidechain uncompensated, and therefore out of sync.

The bottom line is that Live's returns aren't delay compensated and sends must be disabled on the source track in order for things to sync correctly... (See below for Ableton's explanation...)

I'm wondering if there are instances where auxes aren't delay compensated, essentially mirroring the same issue in live...

I also wonder if what's _actually_ happening behind the scenes is this: By tapping "bus 2" as the sidechain source Logic is actually tapping Aux 1 as the source; (whatever aux feeds the tapped bus ). I.e. aux 1 being pre-plugin, pre-delay compensation.. This would result in audio being delay-compensated by 53 ms, and an aux that is uncompensated and 53 ms out of sync...

This would be consistent with how you had to sidechain in Logic pre Logic's days of having the sidechain dropdown menu... You would have to send audio to an aux and tap the aux as the sidechain source... (IIRC?! It's been forever since I had to work this way and genuinely forget.)



Abelton's summary of Live's uncompensated Return behavior:

*Return tracks are not compensated when routed back to an audio track if the respective Send on the destination track is active*

_To restore the correct delay compensation for Return tracks routed to Audio tracks, disable the respective sends. You can disable a send by right clicking on the Send knob and choosing "Disable Send". For example, if you route Return Track A to Audio Track 1, right click on Send A on Track 1 and choose "Disable Send" to restore the correct latency compensation._









Delay Compensation FAQ


Live Versions: All Operating System: All What is Delay Compensation? Certain devices, plug-ins, and track delays may introduce latency. Live's Delay Compensation automatically compensates audio, ...




help.ableton.com


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 28, 2021)

I think complex AUX routing can definitely result in a situation where it would not be possible for logicPro to resolve PDC completely. I think there are also some situations which could be resolved, but might require more elaborate algorithms to work it out...and then there is probably what LogicPro most likely has now...a simple algorithm that accounts for most common cases, but doesn't take long for it to be unable to resolve some kinds of AUX channel routing. How audio is split, through sends, that alone could cause the PDC engine at some point to say "yea, no, can't resolve that". 

The way LogicPro AUX Pdc works is that if one AUX has latency, all other channels are delayed by that amount to sync up. 

However.. what happens if you have AUX1->AUX2->AUX3

and in the above, all three AUX's have some of their own latency. Alright.. but AUX3 has its own latency PLUS the latency of the previous two in front of it..etc. so do you delay AUX1 more to line up with the really long latency in AUX3? If you do that then AUX3 will need to be delayed some more again and so on forever....can't resolve it.

See what I mean? Maybe there is a complicated algorithm that could sort it out in some way...maybe not...maybe LogicPro has more advanced algorithms, maybe not, but my guess is that its own algorithms are a little simple...and certain kinds of situations with complex AUX routing could easily result in PDC not being able to resolve it all completely.

In the case of the Side chain situation described earlier, however, I think LogicPro could perfectly well resolve it if it wanted to. Its not clear to me why it isn't...maybe just oversight of some kind...maybe there is some reason why it can't know how to handle it..not really sure..but on the surface it seems like it ought to be able to handle it.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Apr 29, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> So getting on this a little bit.... see if we can figure out precisely the problem, and work around....
> 
> I took the above scenario that was mentioned earlier...
> 
> ...


Sometimes man, I wonder how on earth you are able to be a composer and understand all this stuff 

I may be a technician and think like an engineer (as much as I can), but some of the things you put on this forum make my brain look like poached eggs (or at least feel like they look, or something like that 

I even did an Electronics course in College all those years ago as well


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## philamelian (Apr 29, 2021)

This latency issue was bugging me for quite long time. Especially when I work with composite productions of band + orchestral layers + maybe electronics. All their needs of treatment is different from one another and the stems I need to deliver needs to be different for the rest of the production as well. So I end up using different signal chains with track stacks & summing as mentioned in the previous comments.

I still can't see the update on my system and will download immediately it's a welcome improvement. 

One thing I can not understand all this time is that; you can actually read the latency values of the latency individual inducing insert effects. For ordinary tracks software can analyse the latency values and compensate it accordingly. Why is it different for busses? I am sure there should be a logical explanation, it might just be a resource optimisation, or something inherent from the architecture...


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## davidson (Apr 29, 2021)

What version of OSX are you guys running? I'm still on mojave so haven't been able to update logic since 10.5. Is it safe to venture into catalina or big sur land?


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## Simon Ravn (Apr 29, 2021)

This huge bug is still not fixed. Has been there for years and the work around (using "Merge Regions" MIDI setting) adds a ton of post-recording work, constantly have to select and join newly recorded regions together with old ones:









Logic's seemingly random use of MIDI channels when recording


Hi. I brought up this subject before, but did anyone find a solution to this? So.. when you record CC, or even record MIDI notes in, often Logic will correctly put all of this in channel 1, but out of the blue (it seems), also pretty often, CC data + notes will be recorded to seemingly random oth...




www.logicprohelp.com


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## philamelian (Apr 30, 2021)

davidson said:


> What version of OSX are you guys running? I'm still on mojave so haven't been able to update logic since 10.5. Is it safe to venture into catalina or big sur land?


I am on Catalina (10.15.7) using Logic 10.6.1. Everything works fine. I was waiting for a couple of projects to finish before shifting to Big Sur. From what I see now it looks safe to do the Big Sur update after developers updates, but obviously I will double check everything before I move. 

My update for Logic 10.6.2 appeared today btw.


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## IFM (Apr 30, 2021)

Simon Ravn said:


> This huge bug is still not fixed. Has been there for years and the work around (using "Merge Regions" MIDI setting) adds a ton of post-recording work, constantly have to select and join newly recorded regions together with old ones:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm I’ve never had this happen.

edit: oh I see it is specific to the midi mode you are recording with.


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## Simon Ravn (Apr 30, 2021)

IFM said:


> Hmm I’ve never had this happen.
> 
> edit: oh I see it is specific to the midi mode you are recording with.


Yes - do anyone record in any other mode when they do heavy MIDI work? If you don't use "Overlap/Merge", you will have to constantly manually join regions together to not end up with one region for each little thing you record.


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## Andy_P (Apr 30, 2021)

So what did they fix about automation and side chain? Is there any additional info?


Dewdman42 said:


> I started a thread on the LogicPro forum to discuss this particular PDC problem a little more deeply...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## nightjar (Apr 30, 2021)

I have not done my own testing yet. However I am seeing some forum chatter saying that issues of PDC/automation sync ARE fixed for their use cases.

So perhaps there has been a fix for broad range of use cases, but only when you approach a fairly extreme use case it is still an issue.

Until we each explore our own use cases, hard to state with clarity if the issue is "fixed" for each of us.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 30, 2021)

Well a fairly common side chain use case has been identified as not working and I personally think the simple nature of it should shed some light on a deeper problem that could effect numerous sidechain scenarios where auxes are combined with side chaining. I have been told by someone in the know that a senior apple engineer is looking into it some more as we speak, so cross your fingers.

I personally havent been able to get automation to fail pdc so I would like to hear from someone who is still able to make it fail, no matter how strange the scenario so we can see if there is something related there too, especially right now while apple is giving this attention!


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## redlester (May 1, 2021)

Is it just me with the following issue after update to 10.6.2, on Catalina?

All my projects where a movie is embedded in the project, which have all been working perfectly when previously saved, give me an error message when opening. Eg:






This happens with every movie project I have on my system. If continue and open the project, remove the movie then replace it again, save the project and exit, it then opens up without any issues on subsequent occasions.

This actually didn't happen immediately after updating to 10.6.2, which I did last night. As of this morning everything was fine but as of about 3.30pm today the problem started occurring. Even on a project I had just been working on earlier today then went to re-open.

Weird!


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## JamieLang (May 1, 2021)

Logic's PDC has always been...lesser than Cubendo. But, better than software Protools. 

But, I think a lot of this issue is around new engineering using automation as content creation--and then wanting to use these side chain networked Izotope style automatic engineering plug ins to handle that...Apple will eventually address this with their own AI engineering, I imagine. 

It's also why so many single core overs (second only to users not understanding how the two buffers work in Logic)...when Apple decided to trace a signal chain of the input and put that all on one core, they never envisioned someone side chaining everything in a project to bus plug ins...


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## JJP (May 1, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


>


I just want to thank you for posting a photo of a Russian Dragon. I haven't seen one of those in years. Though I know a music editor in London who still uses one for checking sync between different rigs.


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## charlieclouser (May 1, 2021)

JJP said:


> I just want to thank you for posting a photo of a Russian Dragon. I haven't seen one of those in years. Though I know a music editor in London who still uses one for checking sync between different rigs.


I sold mine after the last album I produced for Helmet. The pain and suffering that one undergoes when one of those devices is actually needed in order to line up live drums, triggered samples, and loops ought to be against the Geneva Convention. But that thing was genius.

I still can't believe there isn't a plug-in version of this yet. Or maybe there is and I just haven't found it yet?


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## Geoff Grace (May 1, 2021)

JJP said:


> I just want to thank you for posting a photo of a Russian Dragon. I haven't seen one of those in years. Though I know a music editor in London who still uses one for checking sync between different rigs.


Yeah, that brought back a flood of memories for me too. I always thought that Russian Dragon was a clever name for that piece of gear.

As for Logic's Environment, while I admired how powerful it could be, I also felt it was a real time drain—especially if you were trying to interface with a big studio with lots of gear. That, along with Logic's object-oriented approach, was one of the reasons I stopped using it as my main DAW back in the Emagic days. I'm glad the Environment is more of an option than a requirement in today's versions.

Best,

Geoff


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## charlieclouser (May 3, 2021)

Geoff Grace said:


> As for Logic's Environment, while I admired how powerful it could be, I also felt it was a real time drain—especially if you were trying to interface with a big studio with lots of gear. That, along with Logic's object-oriented approach, was one of the reasons I stopped using it as my main DAW back in the Emagic days. I'm glad the Environment is more of an option than a requirement in today's versions.


I admit to an early infatuation with Logic's Environment in the 1990's, and had stuff like 808 sequencers, hardware synth editors, etc. in my AutoLoad back then, but that stuff has mostly gone by the wayside now. Still, it's convenient to have stuff like MIDI Input filters that are toggled by an incoming MIDI event, so you don't have to open up the Prefs window just to turn Aftertouch on and off or whatever.

But the main reason I still love Logic's Environment is because I can build out an entire mixer, with stem sub-masters, effects returns, pretty little labels underneath bricks of faders, etc. and it's NOT a dynamic element, and therefore won't change as I mess around with tracks. I'm still picturing in my mind a giant hardware console with all of my sounds coming in on certain faders, like in the old days where you'd put the kick drum on fader #1 on the SSL and have the lead vocal on the first fader to the right of the center section, etc. So continuing that type of visual paradigm in Logic's Environment helps me keep things straight in my brain.

As a result, I've never really used the Mixer that appears at the bottom of Logic's Main Window. I just leave the Environment open on a second screen and set NOT to auto-scroll to the selected track. That way I can leave it scrolled to show my stem sub-masters and effects returns at all times, while the single fader in the lower left of the Main Window shows me the selected track. This gives me an overview of all of my stem and final mix levels at a glance and for me this works great. 

I still would love a Russian Dragon plug-in though....


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## Dewdman42 (May 3, 2021)

This is a workflow I need to explore more... Not to mention that you can combine midi controls with channel faders on one environment page...


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