# Making a Hybrid Studio Setup



## RRBE Sound (May 3, 2017)

Hey all! 

So I have been thinking of incorporating analogue elements in my mixes and masterings. 
However I am not going to spend $50.000 on a lot of new gear. And I do still like the work-flow of using plug-ins. 

Then I was introduced to a ''Hybrid studio'' - In which software and hardware is combined. 

I am wondering if you guys have some great advice for starting out with hybrid? Maybe some tips on the main gear I can get - I feel very noobi, as there are a lot of gear and I do not want the cheapest. 

Thank you! 

I am great-full of your answer. 

All the best
Rune
www.rrbe.dk


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## Prockamanisc (May 3, 2017)

500 Series is a way to keep it cheap and compact. With a hybrid setup, i/o becomes a pretty big issue, depending on what you want to do. Ultimately, the biggest improvement comes from simply running it through pretty much anything analog. Maybe you'll want some tubes, or a summing unit. Summing would be cool because you don't have to remember presets or anything.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 3, 2017)

I agree that I/O is an issue. Ideally you'll want a pair for each unit or chain of units that remains unchanged so that you don't have to repatch anything. Recallability becomes an issue. One approach is to set it and not change settings. 

If you're not running the full mix through these units, I'd suggest looking at older used units if you want to save some $$. You can probably find some processors that'll really give a lot of character. You can even consider guitar pedals. 

I'd advise against a summing box. According to Bob Katz, the summing itself does nothing. Running just a 2-track master through it will give the same coloration and effect as actually sending out something like 16 channels to it. So it's no different than running your mix through something like a compressor not compressing just for color.


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## RRBE Sound (May 3, 2017)

Thanks guys, 

So somthing with a "All ways set to this" analogue divice e.g. Comprrssor or alike? 

Summingbox adds "fake" colour??


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## Prockamanisc (May 3, 2017)

A tube compressor would be a good place to turn, for sure. It all depends on your style and your aims. 

Summing isn't "fake", it's just kind of impotent when compared to something like a compressor. Summing is purely the sound of analog, whereas something functional (like a compressor) is analog + mojo.

I can tell you this: hybrid setups are an endless pit of spending if you let it. I would either pick a price and don't go above it, or pick an ideal setup and just buy one unit at a time as you can afford it. By the time you've gotten your last piece of equipment, the technology (at the very least, the interface technology) will have changed. 4 years ago we didn't have thunderbolt interfaces. In 4 years we'll at least have thunderbolt 3, if not something faster. Keep that in mind.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 3, 2017)

To be honest, I've found that "what should I buy" questions are rarely the right ones.

What are you recording and what is it you don't like about the sound you're getting now?


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## Joram (May 3, 2017)

What is the reason you want to incorporate analog gear? Do you have equipment or a workflow in mind that will make your music better?


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## stonzthro (May 3, 2017)

If you want a piece of analog gear that is very flexible and adds some noticeable "mojo" look into a Silver Bullet by Louder Than Liftoff; a true Swiss Army knife.

I would avoid analog summing as well. I've done it a lot and have come to the conclusion that it really just sounds different (by a small %), not noticeably better. HOWEVER, some great mix engineers swear by it, so it probably speaks more to my shortcomings than to its usefulness as a tool.


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## colony nofi (May 3, 2017)

If you want to invest in some gear - then I'd say do some research. And by that - first stop is go hire an analog or hybrid studio for a day, bring in some tracks you've mixed in the past - but bring the individual tracks or stems to mix there, and go for it - alongside the engineer from the room who knows the gear. Then, A/B the results with what you do in the box. Figure out whats different. 

Then ask really critically - how much is different just because of BALANCE decisions. Mixing is primarily balance decisions. Balance between soft and loud, left and right. Balance between wet and dry. 

I find the number one reason I come up with better mixes in an analog / hybrid studio - is that the studio is MUCH better than mine for monitoring and acoustics. Knocks mine out of the park. And this is what allows me to make better balance decisions. 

I love tweaking old gear. I love the process - the physicality of it. I love working on a console - with no screen in front of me. (Read up on sensory processing - and why we hear things differently when we shut our eyes etc!) 

But for 95% of things that I do, there's no way I could justify the cost, upkeep of servicing / electricity etc of analog gear for mixing.

Because mixing is about having choices you make - and you need a HUGE amount of gear to give you the same choices that $3k of pluggins will give you.

Now - I also like restrictions / constraints in creative work. But having only a couple of analog pieces that distort (!) audio in a particular way may start feeling restrictive after a while.

I strongly disagree with the poster above who said that summing is purely the sound of analog, whereas something functional like a compressor is analog + mojo. 

There is no such thing as the sound of analog. Full stop. Electrically, we tend to think of it as a signal - just like any other signal. 

When you form an electrical circuit, non-linearities combine to change the signal in specific ways. Those non-linearities.... those distortions outside the bounds of the theoretical desire of the circuit are the sounds that people associate with analog circuitry and often try to remodel in digital signal processing. 

A straight wire is the simplest circuit you can have. Even that wire - no matter how tiny - will introduce detectible non-linearities into a signal - or, through the layout of the wire / track, effect other signals. These maybe WELL below the threshold of hearing. For all intents and purposes, you can call a straight wire "clean" though. (If any of this piques your interest, go read a beginners electronics book. Once you grasp some basic ideas - voltage, capacitance, resistance, induction, potential difference etc, you'll be well on the way to a better understanding of what analog equipment really is doing to your audio signals. That knowledge is also very useful when mixing in the box! Not to mention, setting up your composition/mixing room!)

Now - summing. This is easier than you think. A good starting point is this article : 
http://sound.whsites.net/articles/audio-mixing.htm
And for explanation of some of the concepts, (op amps and the like) try here :
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/opamp/opamp_4.html

So going back a bit - summing is not the sound of "pure analog". Its just a circuit like any other circuit. Passive summing is different to active summing (see the first link) but both come with their own positives and negatives. Note : Yes, there is some truth to Katz saying the summing itself does nothing. (Its just a stretch of the truth.) You just need to be clear which exact part of the "passive summing circuit" you are talking about - or how you are defining summing. Passive summing still needs an amplifier afterwards - and that will have its own non-linearities. It can have serious MOJO depending on what it is.

Now comes the interesting bit. Different circuits will have different effects on the sound. Some are the intended effects. The compression/limiting. The EQ cut. Others are less intended / ideal from a circuit design perspective but sound great - saturation / distortions / non-linarities from inductors (transformers), or compression "shapes" using certain opto's vs vca's vs... - or even phase changes to signals with EQ (its fun to realise what EQ really is from an analog circuitry perspective!) Different op amps (theres LOADS in analog audio) sound different - do different things to the signal across the bandwidth of frequencies. Some are designed to be as clean as possible. Others, not so - and they can sound awesome. Some are poorly designed and sound sh*t in most occasions, but might just make that snare sound pop. 

What am I saying? Every single circuit and part of a circuit influences sound in small ways. Some parts will impart more ofwhat we tend to refer to as "character" - others less. Some will smear a signal. etc. Mojo comes from any of these - and is purely your reaction to these effects. You can get that mojo from digital as well as analog. But what you feel might be different because the non-linearities are slightly different - OR - equally important - the PROCESS of getting to your final mix in a hybrid or analog world is different - and this effects both your decision making and how you feel about the sounds.

When it comes to hybrid mixing - you need to figure out which of these sonic imperfections (as thats what they truly are - they're all distortion in some way!) you want to bring to your mixes because you like the sound of these imperfections.

It is often much easier to do this thru using dedicated distortion boxes rather than units that also do other things to your signal. Its easier to control that way - and you can get LOADS of different sounds easier than say just banging the same compressor on all your signals (tip - that will NEVER work!)

So after all your research and listening and the like... if you decide to go the hybrid route, my personal opinion would be to look into the following types of units. They are all "mix bus processors".
http://www.thermionicculture.com/in...ure-vulture-1-17-192012-03-20-11-02-02-detail
http://blackboxanalog.com/hg-2
http://www.vertigosound.com/ (look for the vsm-2 with harmonic extension)

Once you're killing it with mojo, then maybe start to think about other processors. I'd personally go for EQ before compression - but thats me. There's tonnes of amazing mix buss compressors out there that will help you - and can do double duty processing single signals if you want.

Then start thinking about how to set it all up. You might need an external patch bay. Or not. You might need more i/o. Etc.

Its a rabbit hole from there. 

Have fun.


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## higgs (May 3, 2017)

Great write up, colony. 

I can't say enough good about Thermionic Culture. I picked up a demo Rooster (V1) from ProAudioLA a couple of years ago to use for 2ch pre - it also moonlights as an outboard EQ with distortion a la the Culture Vulture. That plus the B2 ADC give a really sweet range of tonal colors. I'm quite happy with the flexibility afforded by those two pieces.


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## tigersun (May 3, 2017)

Start out with something you can throw across the mix bus that's usable on 'everything' in that sense. Plus you can use it on individual tracks if you want. If you are liking the plugin workflow, check out Bettermaker and Wes Audio stuff. They make 500 series units that connect via USB and have a corresponding plug in for recall. They are pretty awesome. 

It can be very hard to say what to get though, especially a first unit. The Louder Than Liftoff Silver Bullet mentioned will give you a lot of options in one box, definitely a good choice to test out the waters. Mammoth Cave Audio makes an interesting box called the Wooly Mammoth, essentially a stereo transformer and saturation box specifically for adding "mojo". 500 series is a great route to go. Lot's of things to try out and it's cheaper to do so in that format if you aren't sure of what you want. If you don't need to record live instruments you can build a channel strip minus the preamp without having to shell out for the entire channel in 19" format.

If you're adventurous there is a lot of DIY stuff out there. DIYRE has some good 500 stuff, including a relatively new pultec style EQ and their color modules are neat. CAPI has a bunch of DIY kits that are based off API units. Serpent Audio SB4000 is a great SSL comp that you can build, or they have the SB4001 which is a prebuilt 500 series version. Gyraf Audio has some DIY stuff, PCBgrinder sells quite a few PCBs of stuff. Don Audio also sells a bunch of DIY stuff. Drip Electronics has some nice stuff. 

Don't worry about a summing mixer. It probably won't give you what you are looking for from analogue equipment. Some things will give you a nice sound just running audio through without adding compression or EQ or whatever the function of the unit.


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## RRBE Sound (May 4, 2017)

Hehe Woow! - Great replys! Thank you! 

*Overall:*
Well, the thing I seam to be missing in my mixes and masters are some more depth, and a sound which is not that sharp. 

Damn, @colony nofi ! There is a loooot of things to think about. - And just to ask to a small part of it, you might suggest that I get something like a UAD Satellite? Which should give some more character to the sound and save CPU power? - I will return to you in a PM..  


@tigersun , I am going to check out the USB kind of thing, and go visit Gyraf Audio, as they are placed near by..


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## Minko (May 4, 2017)

Hi Rune,
Let me give my couple of cents. I decided a couple of years ago to go for hybrid. Build my dream setup from when I started out. Now that “new” gear is old and much cheaper on e-bay etc. So I have some tube stuf and some synth stuf. 

It’s inspirational. If your stuck and want something different, than use the outboard. If you want fast and efficient, go for the plugins. I print all the stuf to audio so I don’t have to find the patch of settings again. (It’s handier to manipulate audio).

I’ve mixed some stuf for friends that they released and my gear was a perfect match for what their sound needed. But I could have done everything with software. Offline bounce doesn’t work .

The only two things I use every time in my workflow are my hardware reverb and my bus compressor. The rest is nice to have. 

You’ll need a good interface that is fast and in some programs you need to adjust for hardware delay (out - processor - in). In ProTools this means different IO settings for different sample rates. Keep that in mind if you have different sessions. 

If you want extra depth etc. I would probably advise you to also check out a mixer as part of your team. Bring him or her in to help you with your mixes in your studio. Probably a better investment than a ton load of outboard.
Keep in mind that if you deliver stems to a dub they don’t have your outboard. So the summing element is only handy for your stereo mixes. I like many of the boxes out there they all do something different, but if it is lost in de dub than it is not worth it in my opinion. 

If you work with a mixer in your team you could also check what he or she has and decide to buy that (also for plugins).

Well hope this doesn’t confuse you even more. That was my procrastination time. Now back to writing!


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## Phillip (May 6, 2017)

Summing box. You will like what you will hear


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## jonasr (May 17, 2017)

Just added the ssl clone from Stam Audio, check it out. Gotten amazing reviews. Really great kit.

I'm in same postition as TS, what would a decent audio interface be that has about 8 channels of ins and out for a small hybrid set up, don't need internal preamps of a sound Card?


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## synthpunk (May 17, 2017)

@Ashermusic Jay likes the new Apogee Element, There is also Universal Audio, RME, & MOTU



jonasr said:


> Just added the ssl clone from Stam Audio, check it out. Gotten amazing reviews. Really great kit.
> 
> I'm in same postition as TS, what would a decent audio interface be that has about 8 channels of ins and out for a small hybrid set up, don't need internal preamps of a sound Card?


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## jonasr (May 18, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> @Ashermusic Jay likes the new Apogee Element, There is also Universal Audio, RME, & MOTU


 Yes looked at that, seems really sweet but just don't have in/outs except A dat so then you need to get another unit on top of the audio interface. RME UC looks very good as well. 

Anyone experience with the new Motu's, like the 8A?


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