# Waves - Worst Installation & Activation Ever



## robgb (Jan 25, 2019)

I swear their system gives me nothing but trouble, and is especially annoying because they constantly want me to upgrade my plugins—at a cost.


----------



## mgpqa1 (Jan 25, 2019)

Yeah, as a first-time Waves user last year I got bit and upgraded to 10 when I really didn't need to. The lesson I learned was to install the *legacy* version of Waves Central (i.e., stay on 9) and _*not*_ the latest when prompted to upgrade to a newer number (e.g., 9 to 10).


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (Jan 25, 2019)

Wanted to try some of their plugins and was _unable to install them at all_... was so weird.
I might try again at some point.

Only happened once to me before (when I was more unexperienced with installing stuff though).


----------



## Dr.Quest (Jan 25, 2019)

Never had an issue and i run botj 9 and 10 plugins. On mac Sierra.


----------



## sostenuto (Jan 25, 2019)

Dr.Quest said:


> Never had an issue and i run botj 9 and 10 plugins. On mac Sierra.


 Same and on Win10 Pro (Insider Preview for years) _ Reaper V5.9.5. Use VST3 as advised by Waves Support. 
Just today downloaded /installed CLA MixHub. No issues whatever.
*Acknowledge many issues by others and no critique whatsoever.* Just not here.


----------



## T-LeffoH (Jan 25, 2019)

I'm still not sure where people are running into so many installation/uninstallation issues with Waves. I run both v9 and v10 plugins, never had an issue.

And for Waves plugins on trial period, when trial period is over just physically delete the .bundle file from the Waves application folder.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt (Jan 25, 2019)

I agree that they don't make it easy, particularly if you have some 9 and some 10 plugins 

But I have found their customer service to be great, and they have walked me through updates.


----------



## rrichard63 (Jan 25, 2019)

Waves is my least favorite developer with respect to ease of installation and updating. That was true even before Version 10, which only made it worse. But, as several folks have already said, it's possible. You just have to follow instructions carefully and be willing to wait. I don't have the links in front of me right now. If I have a chance this weekend, I'll find them and post them here.


----------



## T-LeffoH (Jan 25, 2019)

Users can find detailed instructions for rolling back to v9 (various previous versions of v9 plugins can be downloaded - i.e. 9.6, 9.92) and offline installs in Waves' support section. It's always seemed pretty straightforward to me.

https://www.waves.com/downloads/v9#v9_92

https://www.waves.com/support/how-to-roll-back-to-waves-v9-92

https://www.waves.com/support/install-activate-products-on-offline-computers

I only still have v9 installed as old DAW/VE-Pro templates I sometimes need to revisit for projects don't nicely just repoint the old v9 plugin to v10.


----------



## chapbot (Jan 25, 2019)

I've enjoyed Waves plugins but the installation and upgrade is so nightmarishly confusing I am going to wean myself off all their products. I just upgraded from Windows 7 to a new Windows 10 machine and nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to reinstall all my Waves stuff. I literally don't even know what I did to get it to work - it was uninstall, reinstall, uninstall, reinstall, pay a bunch of money, and somehow magically I got it working. Their installation tutorials were utterly confusing. Never again.


----------



## Fredeke (Jan 26, 2019)

The worst thing is that you're probably paying for that activation technology.


----------



## Guy Rowland (Jan 26, 2019)

It's undeniably poor. Once last year the whole system went down for 48 hours following an update which put the install process in a permanent loop. Activation was impossible, except for the offline installer. Even offline 9.9.2 failed for me repeatedly, but 9.6 eventually worked.

A colleague managed to wreck his entire Pro Tools rig on an install. He didn't notice the "update existing products" checkbox, which if you only have v9 licenses will detonate a small explosion right through the innards of your computer. To me it's unforgivable that product activation software can even do that. It knows what your licenses are - that's kind of its whole raison d'etre after all - so it should know not to update to a version you don't have.

(excuse the small size of the image, its worth zooming in for. This is Waves Central).







I've sworn off any new plugins until they fix Waves Central.


----------



## robgb (Jan 26, 2019)

Here's the "issue" I have. I buy a plug-in. I open up the Waves Central app and it connects to the Waves server and it shows the plugin I just bought. I click install and it asks me if I want to update ALL of my plugins (which, trust me, you don't want to do unless you're prepared to pay for an update plan—which they don't make clear until after the fact). I say no, and it installs the purchased plugin. Asks for my computer system password, the whole works.

With most developers, that would be it. But with Waves, no, I've just started the process. I close down the app, go to my DAW, try to use the plugin and it says, Sorry, this plugin isn't authorized.

What? I just installed it through you're friggin' app. Shouldn't it be authorized already?

So I open the app again, go to another section that says easy install (or whatever), where I authorize the plugin and it INSTALLS IT AGAIN, after AGAIN asking me if I want to UPDATE all my plugins. It asks for my system password, the whole works.

Okay, I think, maybe I should have gone to that section in the first place. No harm, no foul.

The next time I buy a plugin, I go to the easy install—and the plugin isn't there. Wait. What? So I go over to the other install tab and there it is, waiting for me to go through that same bullshit process I went through the last time.

The capper is that when I go to my DAW, the only version of the plugin that's there is the AU. No VST, no VST3. I have to delete and rescan my entire plugin database to get the VST versions to show up. I'd blame the DAW, but THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN WITH ANY OTHER DEVELOPER'S PLUGIN. In fact, NONE of this happens with any other developer's plugin. Usually, I buy the plugin, download it, install and authorize it in in one step and go about my business.


----------



## Quasar (Jan 26, 2019)

robgb said:


> I swear their system gives me nothing but trouble, and is especially annoying because they constantly want me to upgrade my plugins—at a cost.


My experience with Waves consists of one $9 sale plugin, a trip down "Waves Central" and the realization that I would have to either maintain an online connection or connect a flash drive as a dongle to use the plug.

It was very quickly uninstalled, though it took a bit of work to get rid of _every trace_ of the related software, and Waves simply joined the very long, long list of companies that I don't pay the slightest bit of attention to because their CP is unacceptability draconian.

As Stephen Colbert used to say on his late show: They are dead to me. They do not exist.


----------



## kitekrazy (Jan 26, 2019)

chapbot said:


> I've enjoyed Waves plugins but the installation and upgrade is so nightmarishly confusing *I am going to wean myself off all their products.* I just upgraded from Windows 7 to a new Windows 10 machine and nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to reinstall all my Waves stuff. I literally don't even know what I did to get it to work - it was uninstall, reinstall, uninstall, reinstall, pay a bunch of money, and somehow magically I got it working. Their installation tutorials were utterly confusing. Never again.



It has gotten better. Windows System Restore became a great friend when it came to Waves Central. Since they have so many plugins they can't do the individual installer for each plugin.

Waves is the only plugin developer where I can't have more than one install without using their methods to use another machine. It's nice they drop their prices to buy a duplicate license. Developers who use iLok even allow 2-3 installs. 

I think IK's TRacks installed is worse since it installs them all and I have to go through 3 plugin folders to delete the ones I don't have. You also have to be careful with Melda's installer.

I'm moving away from Waves too other than duplicate licenses. Ik is another one. Their idea of customer loyalty is odd. I'm going with Melda from now on, free lifetime updates, no machine limit, and quite deep to make use of them, every DAW finds them. Odd with Waves is sometimes Reaper doesn't fine the new ones without a reset.


----------



## kitekrazy (Jan 26, 2019)

Fredeke said:


> The worst thing is that you're probably paying for that activation technology.



Only products that don't have CP. At least it's their own. I always wondered how much of a budget goes to Pace or other 3rd parties.


----------



## ironbut (Jan 26, 2019)

chapbot said:


> I've enjoyed Waves plugins but the installation and upgrade is so nightmarishly confusing I am going to wean myself off all their products.



There are a couple of them that I still use if I'm stuck (I think I have 26 or so).
I see their "Upgrade" path as a tricky way of making you pay for the plugin then asking you to pay for a subscription (total bean counter stuff).
There are no new features, or improvements to the sound/gui like someone like iZotope does with their upgrades. Waves upgrades only seems to make them compliant with their latest manager.


----------



## sostenuto (Jan 26, 2019)

For $299. __ Horizon Bundle _ 75 plugins @ ~ $4. each. (list shows @ $3,999.) What's not to like ??  
Ok, ok …. next year(s) Update costs add a skosh.


----------



## pmcrockett (Jan 26, 2019)

For those finding that new Waves plugins don't show up without a rescan, the reason is probably related to the fact that Waves uses a VST wrapper to run the plugins in a host. This means that there's only actually one single VST file that all of the plugins are served through, so the host probably has to look at it afresh to realize that it's changed.


----------



## robgb (Jan 26, 2019)

pmcrockett said:


> For those finding that new Waves plugins don't show up without a rescan, the reason is probably related to the fact that Waves uses a VST wrapper to run the plugins in a host. This means that there's only actually one single VST file that all of the plugins are served through, so the host probably has to look at it afresh to realize that it's changed.


Would be nice if there was a simple way of unwrapping the wrapper and getting individual component, vst and vst3 files. You know, like nearly every other plugin....


----------



## pmcrockett (Jan 26, 2019)

robgb said:


> Would be nice if there was a simple way of unwrapping the wrapper and getting individual component, vst and vst3 files. You know, like nearly every other plugin....


I think they do it this way because it streamlines development. I don't know exactly what changes with wrapper vs. non-wrapper, but I imagine that using the wrapper reduces the amount of redundant code that they have to maintain across all of the plugins.

I've encountered a couple of non-DAW hosts that can't even properly load Waves plugins because of the wrapper, so it's definitely a pain from a user perspective.

EDIT: I think _shell_ is actually the technical term for what they're using, not wrapper.


----------



## ironbut (Jan 26, 2019)

Like I said, out of the 20 something Waves plugins I have, there are only a couple that I actually reach for more than 2 times a year (I've probably loaded 45-50 projects into my DAWs in the last year- personal tracks, mixes of other folks music, live concert tracks for distribution).
I just checked my Waves account and to update the ones I have till 1/21 will cost $383.40.


----------



## YaniDee (Jan 26, 2019)

Someone has to defend them..I have not had any problems with the 30+ waves plugins I own. I have a mix of V9 & v10, have never updated any WUP and all work fine. The transition from v9 to v10 went smoothly, the eligible plugs were updated by Waves Central and the v9s stayed in place..
Well, I have one issue..I use Cubase and FL Studio, and in FL, the plugin loaded to the "shell" is not in place when I re-open the project. But I think that's a FL issue...
I'm not crazy about all their plugz, but I have my go-tos
I kept seeing the post title, and eventually I had to write something based on my experience.


----------



## Brian2112 (Jan 26, 2019)

I got maybe hundreds of waves plugs. The shell sometimes works with my daws and ve pro. Sometimes not after a waves update. Not going to shell out the ridiculous upgrade fee. They basically give away their plugins on the cheap then kill you with the update plan to maybe keep it working. 
Screw that. Moved to melda MXXX. I like them better anyways. A single installer installed them all. No issues.


----------



## rrichard63 (Jan 27, 2019)

kitekrazy said:


> I think IK's TRacks installed is worse since it installs them all and I have to go through 3 plugin folders to delete the ones I don't have. You also have to be careful with Melda's installer.


Another offender here is Universal Audio. In UA's case at least, they do this in order to make it extremely easy to start two-week trials of the ones you don't own -- and, of course, end up buying them.


----------



## rrichard63 (Jan 27, 2019)

robgb said:


> Would be nice if there was a simple way of unwrapping the wrapper and getting individual component, vst and vst3 files. You know, like nearly every other plugin....


For VST 2.4, there's a free (but undocumented) utility that works:

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=406172

I'm not aware of any equivalent for VST3.


----------



## chrisr (Nov 4, 2019)

Just adding my voice to the long list of people that have had enough of the CRAZY waves copy protection system. I'm in the middle of trying to unf*ck my set-up now, having just had to restore 2 licences that disappeared over night. All v9 here so downloading the 9.92 offline installer as we speak - as waves central seems to have removed all my plugs....

I won't be buying any more waves plugs until they improve their system and I won't be using them in new sessions - just trying to get them back for legacy session purposes now.


----------



## Loïc D (Nov 4, 2019)

Been there. Got the T-Shirt. No thanks.


----------



## jtnyc (Nov 4, 2019)

I quit Waves years ago. Aside from the install/update issues already mentioned, a paid subscription in order to get basic updates? No thank you. Besides there are so many other great choices out there today, who needs them.


----------



## Synetos (Nov 4, 2019)

I have much invested in Waves, running whole digigrid setup. So, I have a vested interest in making it all work together...which it usually does. 

When I do run into a snag, Waves support has always helped me. Yes, I hate their pricing games, but I have not had all that much trouble with the gear or the plugs. I've had Mercury for about 9 or 10 years now.

I have my share of frustration with many software packages. Waves isnt any worse than Apple, Microsoft, Cubase, VEP, etc. I need them all talking nicely. It's a bit of a dance sometimes...be it a tango or dirty dancing. 

I agree, Meldaproduction has the slickest and simplest model yet. Simple, clean install process, and has never caused an error. Reaper is another with a simple, clean install.


----------



## mixtur (Nov 4, 2019)

robgb said:


> Would be nice if there was a simple way of unwrapping the wrapper and getting individual component, vst and vst3 files. You know, like nearly every other plugin....


They used to have a utility for this actually, not sure if its still around.
see attached link









KVR Forum: Convert WaveShell to normal VST - Computer Setup and System Configuration Forum


KVR Audio Forum - Convert WaveShell to normal VST - Computer Setup and System Configuration Forum




www.kvraudio.com


----------



## chrisr (Nov 5, 2019)

Back up and running now, by the way - the 9.92 offline installer, through waves central 11 did work pretty smoothly, to give them their due.

I was actually mildly impressed by waves central 11 - it was the first iteration of that software that felt as if it was "on top of things".

Would be lovely if I could just install once and then never worry about it again.


----------



## dgburns (Nov 5, 2019)

Use waves all the time, never had any real issues, just updated to V11 with no issues. Everything plays nice.

Why the hate folks? It ain’t rocket science imho


----------



## Synetos (Nov 5, 2019)

mixtur said:


> They used to have a utility for this actually, not sure if its still around.
> see attached link
> 
> 
> ...


Yes. This use to be required to get Waves plugs to work with VEP.
What I like about it, is the ability to remove the ones you dont want. 
For example: If I only want Stereo plugs and no 5.1 plugs, I can just delete them from the folder. When you have Mercury, it is a cluster trying to use them in VEP since it doesnt do a good job of categorizing.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Nov 5, 2019)

dgburns said:


> Use waves all the time, never had any real issues, just updated to V11 with no issues. Everything plays nice.
> 
> Why the hate folks? It ain’t rocket science imho


I have had issues with Waves since yesterday...

I now have two support tickets open with them:
1. I cannot install any plugins on macOS 10.14.6 using Central 10.0.41
2. My SoundGrid in BOOTCAMP drops out after a certain time and audio stops, so I have to switch to my DELL U3818W for sound instead

Thinking I should have bought RME for hardware now


----------



## Ellen Soomers (Apr 22, 2022)

chapbot said:


> I've enjoyed Waves plugins but the installation and upgrade is so nightmarishly confusing I am going to wean myself off all their products. I just upgraded from Windows 7 to a new Windows 10 machine and nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to reinstall all my Waves stuff. I literally don't even know what I did to get it to work - it was uninstall, reinstall, uninstall, reinstall, pay a bunch of money, and somehow magically I got it working. Their installation tutorials were utterly confusing. Never again.


It is a fucking nightmare and makes me NEVER want to buy anything from them again!!!!!


----------

