# Advice please: VSTs based on ease-of-use / auto-articulation / etc



## ThatAdamGuy (Sep 11, 2020)

tl;dr: I'm making (primarily orchestral/instrumental) music for fun and want recs of decent-quality, easy-to-use VSTs (like the Bohemian Violin).

Hi there,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster . Also long-time lapsed hobbyist-composer/pianist.

Just getting back into music composing (for fun) and would greatly appreciate your VST advice. Specifically, I'm in love with the Bohemian Violin I purchased -- its auto-articulation mode is delightfully sufficient for brainstorming/noodling -- and would love your thoughts on similarly plug-'n'-play / sounds-great-out-of-the-box VSTs. I've also been pleasantly surprised with the ease-of-use-yet-decent-quality of the BBC Discover Orchestra (free version).

In contrast, I've been *sorely disappointed by the East West Composer Cloud VSTs*. It's entirely possible that I'm just not yet competent enough to leverage their power, but I've found them nearly all super-painful to use, with sounds split across a zillion absolutely-inscrutably-named samples/articulation sets. And it seems like none of their stuff has any sort of "auto" mode like in the Bohemian Violin.

* * *

A bit about me and my new setup:

I have a Native Instruments S88 keyboard.
I just started monthly-subscribing to Presonus Sphere and have begun using Studio One 5. I'll probably explore Notion next.
So as you can imagine, I'm _especially_ eager to hear about easy-to-use NKS-compatible VSTs  
The only VSTs I currently own / have access to are...
the Bohemian Violin
the East West Composer Cloud set
various free Spitfire / Spitfire Labs instruments
and Kontact 12 Select stuff that came with my keyboard

I've thought about upgrading to Komplete Ultimate 13, but it seems the majority of the stuff there is more synth'y / non-orchestral.
I'm trained in classical and jazz piano. My composer idols are film folks like Alan Silvestri and the long-dead Classical greats 
Thanks very much in advance for your VST recommendations!

And hey, if you have broader "Musical Caveman wakes up after decades, begins composing again" advice re software, books (e.g., for orchestration), learning-to-use-NI-hardware-or-S1 videos, etc... I'd love to hear from you on that, too!


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## doctoremmet (Sep 11, 2020)

ThatAdamGuy said:


> and Kontact 12 Select stuff that came with my keyboard
> 
> I've thought about upgrading to Komplete Ultimate 13, but it seems the majority of the stuff there is more synth'y / non-orchestral.


I’d recommend getting regular Kontakt 6 Full at least, since a lot of great orchestral libraries require that format. There are ways to make yourself eligible for good sales / upgrade paths. “Regular” Komplete 13 also is excellent value. Whatever you buy, use sales. It appears the Ultra version is not necessarily of interest of you want to invest $ in orchestral libraries. I’d prefer third party stuff. 

There are SO many different orchestral libraries, ultimately it will depend on your own taste which one fits you best. Do like us and spend a lot of time here, listen to demos, watch channels on YT (Guy Michelmore, Dirk Ehlert, Chris Siu, Don Bodin, Simeon Amburgey, Alex Pfeffer, Nico Schuele, to name but a few). Check what YOU like.

You already have the Virharmonic Violin. An excellent triple A instrument. My advice: expand your libraries to include top level stuff as much as possible. Don’t spend $40 here and $30 there on stuff that is cute but ultimately will mean you have to “re-purchase” a better version later. In stead, save and outright buy quality stuff. Use Black Friday sales to really strike gold. Good luck 

I’ll refrain from summing up MY personal favorites here, because who cares. Get Kontakt, it is the necessary swiss army knife you’ll need anyway.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 11, 2020)

Ok. I’ll name one series that is brilliant when it comes to ease of use:

Infinite Brass
Infinite Woodwinds

(Strings to be released “soon”)
Extremely playable. At least check out Cory Pelizzari’s videos (another excellent reviewer, one of my favourites actually).


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Sep 11, 2020)

Maybe Musical Sampling and Performance Samples?


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Sep 11, 2020)

Cinematic Studio Strings 2 probably, at least I’ve read it’s super easy to use and get good results with


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## ThatAdamGuy (Sep 11, 2020)

doctoremmet, thank you so much for the thoughtful reply. I am currently drooling over the Infinite Brass demos and various review videos; this sort of _playability _(that's exactly the word I should have used) is just what I'm looking for! Not having to worry about remembering/using a zillion key switches up front, but rather just _playing_ and getting an idea fleshed out without having to micromanage the instrument!

As a hobbyist, the price hurts my eyes (cost of Infinite Brass + Kontact)... but I know quality is not cheap, and -- as you rightly noted -- I'm gonna need Kontact sooner or later almost certainly. Only question is whether to get it now as part of a bundle or standalone... or wait until Black Friday.

Re people to watch... heh, multiple friends told me about Guy and I've just found him a joy to watch! His enthusiastic review of the NI S88, in fact, pushed me over the fence to buy the keyboard . And I'll certainly check out the other folks you've mentioned.

hbjdk, thank you also for your replies; will check out those VSTs as well. Appreciate the pointers!

P.S. -- 111 pages on the _Infinite Series_ thread?!? Er, good thing I'm on a staycation this week I guess?! . Just wish there was a way to print a thread for a single-page scrolly view / search (e.g., to find out if there's any info on whether/when the Infinite Series will be NKS-compatible).


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Sep 11, 2020)

You are welcome 

There is a little “trick” to get Kontakt cheaper.
I will see if I remember it:
Go to Sennheiser’s homepage. You can get some drums there for free which use the Kontakt player (it’s included)
Having this you can buy an upgrade crossgrade from Kontakt player to full Kontakt.
It is cheaper than buying full Kontakt.

Edit:
Here is the text from NI:








What Exactly is a Crossgrade / Update / Upgrade and How Do I Qualify?


A product acquired through an Update / Upgrade / Crossgrade is identical to the full version of the same product and offers the same features and functionality as the full version. The difference l...




support.native-instruments.com





Quote:

Owners of an official third-party KONTAKT library can purchase the discounted 'Crossgrade to KONTAKT 6'.
Edit2:
Crossgrade is EUR 249.
Just checked on NI’s homepage.

Edit3:
You can also find Kontakt for sale in the ads here on this forum:





For Sale: Music Gear Classifieds (Free Service)


Wanting to buy or sell used gear? Check out the offerings from VI members from all over the world.




vi-control.net




Search for Kontakt.
As usual with Internet trade, be careful.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Sep 11, 2020)

Pro Audio Microphones & Wireless Systems, IEM's, DJ Headphones, Studio Headphones


Microphones, Wireless Microphones System, Vocals, Instruments, Studio, Recording, IEM's, DJ Headphones, Studio Headphones - Top-quality products and tailor made solutions for every aspect of recording, transmission, mixing, and reproduction of sound - sennheiser.com



en-us.sennheiser.com


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## Kent (Sep 11, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Infinite Brass
> Infinite Woodwinds


I was wondering when you’d break down and say it 😂


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Sep 11, 2020)

Oh you have Kontakt Select! Sorry didn’t notice.

Edit: Do you mean Komplete Select? There is no Kontakt Select, is there?


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## Kent (Sep 11, 2020)

ThatAdamGuy said:


> doctoremmet, thank you so much for the thoughtful reply. I am currently drooling over the Infinite Brass demos and various review videos; this sort of _playability _(that's exactly the word I should have used) is just what I'm looking for! Not having to worry about remembering/using a zillion key switches up front, but rather just _playing_ and getting an idea fleshed out without having to micromanage the instrument!
> 
> As a hobbyist, the price hurts my eyes (cost of Infinite Brass + Kontact)... but I know quality is not cheap, and -- as you rightly noted -- I'm gonna need Kontact sooner or later almost certainly. Only question is whether to get it now as part of a bundle or standalone... or wait until Black Friday.
> 
> ...


Just a note: 

VST is a file format for audio plug-in.

Kontakt CAN be a VST. (If you’re in Logic, it’ll be an AU; Pro Tools, AAX)

Kontakt libraries are just libraries. Virtual Instruments. “VI”s, if you will. 😉

Some VIs are indeed VSTs (/AUs, etc.), like most virtual (aka “soft”) synths—Diva would be an example of this.

But not all VSTs (et al.) are VIs (like Diva) or VI engines (like Play or Kontakt); many are DSP plug-ins (reverbs, EQs, etc.).


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## ThatAdamGuy (Sep 11, 2020)

*Ah, I have Komplete Select.* D'oh, sorry for the confusion. Speaking of confusion, is it just me, or is Native Instruments just... screwy with their naming and such? Let's see, there's Kontakt, then Kontakt Player, and then Komplete Kontrol software but wait, there's also Komplete Kontrol hardware (keyboards) and... wha?!?!? I still don't understand why it's possible to add VIs to KK or KP, but one must do the former in S1 to include more than one instrument and... aaaaaaah! :\'

Anyway, ahem, sorry, I digress. re Kontakt (full), it looks like I have a few choices:

Get it for $249 (crossgrade from Sennheiser DrumMic)
Get it as part of Komplete 13 (bundle upgrade) for $399
Wait until Black Friday to likely get it at an even steeper discount
And I expect the Infinite Series would probably be discounted around Black Friday as well. Not to mention maybe the Strings will be out then and available as part of a bundle?! Hmm.
Decisions decisions!

kmaster, thanks for the clue'ing in re terminology . Luckily for me, my interests nowadays is just on VIs; I'm not anywhere near to point of tackling DSP stuff (at least beyond what's already included free with Studio One). But good reminder that VST = a superset, VI = a subset, and VI engines are wrappers (managers? hosts?) for VIs. And I already am blessed (ugh) with three different VI enginers: UVI for the Bohemian Violin, Play for the East West stuff, and Komplete Kontrol (so I can use my S88 to control stuff in Studio One). Wow, this gets complicated fast.

Good thing I'm reasonably geeky! And that I found this helpful community


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## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 11, 2020)

If you like Bohemian violin, don't forget that Virharmonic also has a cello, with a viola on the way

I would also recommend you explore ujam's products, as they are designed to work the same way. Maybe start with their acoustic bass, Mellow. Everything they sell has a free fully-functional demo that works for 30 days. Everything they sell was half price last black friday. 

Remember that everything you might consider buying today will be on sale in November, and that's not so far away. Here's what the deals were like last year. 






Tiger The Frog's Alphabetical List of November 2019 Sales


This post shows documents the details of Black Friday sales I could find in 2019. I'm sure I missed some. I did this out of the hope that you will use it to discover and support small developers. As musicians, we owe all developers our gratitude, but as you can see below, there are a...




vi-control.net


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## bunja1979 (Sep 11, 2020)

sennheiser drumica serial number isnt avalable anymore , only the download , but
theres other free kontakt player libaries like keepforest ferrum 
, embertone arcane , and the free orchestra by projectsam 
but im not sure if they give you the crossgrade


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## doctoremmet (Sep 11, 2020)

bunja1979 said:


> sennheiser drumica serial number isnt avalable anymore , only the download , but
> theres other free kontakt player libaries like keepforest ferrum
> , embertone arcane , and the free orchestra by projectsam
> but im not sure if they give you the crossgrade


Arcane does.


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## ThatAdamGuy (Sep 11, 2020)

Hey TigerTheFrog, wow, this is the first I've heard of / heard the ujam products; their silk acoustic guitar is indeed silky! And I appreciate they're seemingly one of the few vendors that allows a 30 day trial... nice!

And yeah, good point about the sale. My current thought is to buy some stuff now on a credit card that offers price protection and then file claims later. A minor pain in the ass for me, but I think the artists that make these VIs need the money more than the banks :D.

And doctoremmet, thanks! Debating whether Komplete 13 is worth the $150 difference ($249 vs. $399) vs. just Kontakt alone.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 11, 2020)

That $150 bucks alone gets you a ridiculous value really! Great synths such as Massive X. And brilliant pianos such as Una Corda and Noire (K13). Drums. A pretty decent factory library. I mean... think about it...


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## FlyingAndi (Sep 12, 2020)

If you live in Europe check out this thread for a cheap way to get Komplete 13


https://vi-control.net/community/threads/half-price-komplete-13-standard-ultimate-and-collectors-edition-uk-and-german-boxed-version.98275/


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## ThatAdamGuy (Sep 13, 2020)

doctoremmet, good point. I don't really need/want most of the stuff in Komplete, but... probably would get at least $150 value 

And FlyingAndi, appreciate the link but alas... while I loved living in Europe for a bit after grad school and used to visit often, I'm American and live in the U.S.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 13, 2020)

ThatAdamGuy said:


> doctoremmet, good point. I don't really need/want most of the stuff in Komplete, but... probably would get at least $150 value


Really, what they've done is price Kontakt way too high so their Komplete product is almost always the better deal...


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## ThatAdamGuy (Sep 13, 2020)

Heh, yeah, doctoremmet... speaking of high prices... the cost of their unbundled VIs is also crazy (in comparison).

FlyingAndi... I spoke, er, typed too soon. Looks like the Europe half-pricing is actually relevant to me after all! As I just noted in that thread, it seems we Americans can either download, say, a K12S--> K12U (and get upgraded to K13U in October) for ~$493 from Best Service via download or Gear4Music for $430 (including fast DHL shipping!) from Gear4Music.

Only downside of the latter is the likelihood of tacked-on customs + DHL-dealing-with-customs fees :( (don't know how common that is, since I'm usually not ordering stuff from overseas).


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## bill5 (Sep 13, 2020)

ThatAdamGuy said:


> As a hobbyist, the price hurts my eyes (cost of Infinite Brass + Kontact)... but I know quality is not cheap,


Wanna bet? 

While "you get what you pay for" is probably more true with orchestral plugins than anything else, do yourself a favor and slap a huge grain of salt on that regarding plugins generally. There are great plugins that are cheap or even free and pricey ones that suck (subjective with specifics of course, I'm speaking generally). Do not think X is better than Y just because it costs more. It all varies. A lot. 

Sorry I don't have recommendations for orchestral plugins, but I'm listening as I'm window shopping as well. 

I'm not sure why people are recommending Kontakt when you have Komplete. Doesn't that include Kontakt (or the same abilities) i.e. to load samples?


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## ThatAdamGuy (Sep 13, 2020)

Ha! Fair points, bill5. I mean, look at online... there's a lot of great stuff for free even (Wikipedia comes to mind, for instance!). But I think what I was trying to get at (and failing) was that hard, thoughtful work from people like Aaron deserves compensation*. In other words, good quality deserves not-cheapo prices, IMHO. I've felt this more and more as my circle of artist / writer friends has gotten bigger!

Re Kontakt... I guess there was a misunderstanding. I don't yet have it; I recently bought the NI S88 keyboard, but it comes with Komplete Select and Kontakt Player, not Kontakt (yeah, as I've ranted earlier, NI really sucks at naming). Some VIs can be loaded in the free Kontakt Player, but others --like the Infinite products -- require the 'full' version of Kontakt.

However, I just bought a Kontakt Select --> Komplete 12 Ultimate upgrade from Gear4Music (for $425, yay!), so when that (hopefully) arrives this week, I'll be an owner of Kontakt, K12U, and -- crossing fingers -- K13U on Oct 1.

* Edited to add my story of free = worthless below:

I've been playing piano since age 4 and all through junior high and high school I enjoyed accompanying vocalists and instrumentalists. In college, I continued to accompany fellow musicians but was dismayed at the contrasting lack of respect I got compared to my high school days. Then a kind and blunt friend clued me in: "Adam, if you don't charge money, then that's what people assume your talent is worth: zero. ****'in charge people!"

So I did. And then I started getting, again, lots of respect... even gifts, social invitations, etc. Because someone who charges a good amount (but not a crazy high amount) must be "worth it," right? :-(. Stupid human psychology aside, this also firmed up in my mind that artists need to charge money; they (generally) shouldn't give away their work for free.


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## bill5 (Sep 13, 2020)

ThatAdamGuy said:


> Ha! Fair points, bill5. I mean, look at online... there's a lot of great stuff for free even (Wikipedia comes to mind, for instance!). But I think what I was trying to get at (and failing) was that hard, thoughtful work from people like Aaron deserves compensation*. In other words, good quality deserves not-cheapo prices, IMHO. I've felt this more and more as my circle of artist / writer friends has gotten bigger!


ah sure....but regarding plugins, circumstances vary and it isn't really about "deserves," but what they can get or try to get. Pricing and marketing is a complex and tricky game.  Frankly I'm not sure why there are so many people and companies who offer mostly or entirely free plugins (but so glad); my guess is again it varies. Some figure no one will pay for a company they never heard of, so a freebie gets them in the door, and if people like their work, it could lead to other things. Some might be the opposite, they're already established and don't really need the extra income and want to do something nice for artists. etc. (Paying musicians is another thing, your story and point are good ones)



> Re Kontakt... I guess there was a misunderstanding. I don't yet have it; I recently bought the NI S88 keyboard, but it comes with Komplete Select and Kontakt Player, not Kontakt


My bad, I thought you had a full version of Komplete. Much as I dislike NI and Kontakt, for orchestral work it does seem to be a no-brainer because so many things are built to be used in it (including some excellent free ones). Good purchase!



> (yeah, as I've ranted earlier, NI really sucks at naming).


I'll resist the temptation to get on an NI rant!


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## ThatAdamGuy (Sep 13, 2020)

As you've seen, I'm really a newbie in this space, and I look forward to diving in and learning more about a lot of these awesome free VIs. As long as they're easy to use (since I'm prioritizing ease-of-use above most other stuff right now) . I need another weeklong staycation just to catch up on this forum! :o


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## bill5 (Sep 13, 2020)

There are so many...how good they are and easy to use is, of course, subjective...there's two good threads on the site, one for instruments (VIs) and one for other stuff like effects.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 14, 2020)

bill5 said:


> I'm not sure why people are recommending Kontakt when you have Komplete.


Because all other people were idiots?


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## ThatAdamGuy (Sep 14, 2020)

HA! No, doctoremmet, I think it's more that I've been blathering on and haven't been particularly precise at times. The only idiots are the NI naming/branding peeps  (I'm just glad they didn't name the MIDI controller the Komplete Kontrol Keyboard; sorry, I'm sure someone else has made that in-poor-taste-joke before).


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## doctoremmet (Sep 14, 2020)

ThatAdamGuy said:


> HA! No, doctoremmet, I think it's more that I've been blathering on and haven't been particularly precise at times. The only idiots are the NI naming/branding peeps  (I'm just glad they didn't name the MIDI controller the Komplete Kontrol Keyboard; sorry, I'm sure someone else has made that in-poor-taste-joke before).


Was just kidding mate. Marketing is the worst!


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## bill5 (Sep 14, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Because all other people were idiots?


No, that would be me this time!


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## doctoremmet (Sep 14, 2020)

bill5 said:


> No, that would be me this time!


This entire bunch of cool forum members have their idiotic moments haha. Look at us, hoarding software and samples, all neatly in one convenient space for marketeers to hunt us down...


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## Denkii (Sep 15, 2020)

We're getting vi-controlled sheeple!


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## bill5 (Sep 15, 2020)

I may be an idiot and a VST hoarder, but I have NEVER been anything even remotely connected to a sheeple.


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## David Cuny (Sep 15, 2020)

ThatAdamGuy said:


> Specifically, I'm in love with the Bohemian Violin I purchased -- its auto-articulation mode is delightfully sufficient for brainstorming/noodling -- and would love your thoughts on similarly plug-'n'-play / sounds-great-out-of-the-box VSTs.


I've found that SampleModeling and AudioModeling libraries - designed to work with breath/wind controllers - can be quite expressive and simpler to play.

Others have found wind/breath controllers to be unnatural, and not at all to their liking, so YMMV.


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