# Adive on Network Setting for VEPRO Master/Slave Setup



## blizzard (Mar 22, 2011)

Hey All!

Just upgrading both my Master and Slave to WIN7 with Protools 9 on Master. Also purchased VEPro to connect them. I can't wait to get this working.

In my initial test (which is still very much in troubleshooting phase), I am getting horrible clicks, pops and distortion on the audio returning to the Master. I currently have both machines connected by Cat5 cable to my wireless router which services the house with WiFi. Perhaps this is the bottleneck?

Should I get a dedicated Gigabit Switch to connect the two machines?
Do I need to have Cat6 cable?
Should I invest in dedicated Network Cards for the machines or will the onboard network do (both have onboard Gigabit).

So many variables involved with a new setup that it's hurting my brain a bit. Any advice on setting up a proper VEPro Master Slave combo would be much appreciated!

Cheers Everyone!
Andrew


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## Patch666 (Mar 22, 2011)

If you are connecting via your home network make sure that your connected via your cat cable and NOT over wireless. You might want to turn off your wireless capabilities and make sure your firewall is set up to allow your network to run via your cat cable. 

Just a suggestion .. 

Hope you get it working.

Patch.


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## blizzard (Mar 22, 2011)

That's actually something that I didn't test, thanks. I was also recommended adding a Gigabit switch between the machines, and then have the switch connect to the wireless router. I'm looking at something like this: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX8505%28ME%29.aspx

I'm going to go and see if they were connected by wireless when I performed my initial tests.

Thanks!
Andrew


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 22, 2011)

While I doubt this is the source of your problems, you want to use copper wire with gigabit ethernet - Cat 6.

And many wireless routers only have 100BT ethernet, not gigabit. If you get a gigabit switcher, that will solve the problem - and you don't need to spend a lot for one. You're supposed to put the router in the highest-numbered switcher port to avoid slowing down the network. Supposedly anyway. 

Or if you have two ethernet ports on your master, you could use the second one for a direct connection to the slave.

The other thing is to make sure you're not running too small a buffer in PT, but I don't think it allows you to set it lower than 512 - which isn't ideal.

Finally, I wonder if you wouldn't be better off upgrading to Pro Tools 9 for performance reasons.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 22, 2011)

Also make sure you have the same version of VE Pro on both machines.


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## synergy543 (Mar 22, 2011)

deleted


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## blizzard (Mar 22, 2011)

> While I doubt this is the source of your problems, you want to use copper wire with gigabit ethernet - Cat 6.



I am going to do this tomorrow (after I buy some).



> And many wireless routers only have 100BT ethernet, not gigabit. If you get a gigabit switcher, that will solve the problem - and you don't need to spend a lot for one.



My wireless router actually does have gigabit as I bought it specifically for the purpose of audio over lan a few years ago. But I'm thinking I will try a switch in addition to the router.



> You're supposed to put the router in the highest-numbered switcher port to avoid slowing down the network. Supposedly anyway.



Interesting...I'll do that! 



> Or if you have two ethernet ports on your master, you could use the second one for a direct connection to the slave.



I actually do have two ports on the Master - but right now my slave machine only has one port and it also acts as my everyday machine when not in slave mode, handling all the "work" related to composing that isn't actual composing. 8) So it needs internet access.



> The other thing is to make sure you're not running too small a buffer in PT, but I don't think it allows you to set it lower than 512 - which isn't ideal.



I think I had it at 256...I will have to check.



> Finally, I wonder if you wouldn't be better off upgrading to Pro Tools 9 for performance reasons.



This _is_ Pro Tools 9 that I'm working with. Just installed Windows 7 on both Master and Slave to take advantage of more RAM - 8GB in Master and 16GB in Slave (it's in the mail).

I'll try some of those suggestions! Thanks for the help!
Andrew[/quote]


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## blizzard (Mar 22, 2011)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Mar 22 said:


> Also make sure you have the same version of VE Pro on both machines.



Just checked and they are the same version.


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## blizzard (Mar 22, 2011)

> You most definitely need a Gigabit switch



Because of the Gigabit part or the Switch part? I do already have Gigabit, just in a wireless router and not a switch.



> Router also hooks up to the switch.



So I would have it setup like this?

Modem > Switch > Master CPU, Slave CPU, Wireless Router


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## synergy543 (Mar 22, 2011)

deleted


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 22, 2011)

This one should work pretty well:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 22, 2011)

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## synergy543 (Mar 22, 2011)

Pure evil Nick!

Andrew, pay no attention to him. Batzdorf must be drinking Tiger Blood...winnng here, winning there.


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## blizzard (Mar 30, 2011)

First of all I very much appreciate the generous advice given by everyone on these forums. I would be still be figuring out how to bounce tracks on my Portastudio 424 if it weren't for generous folks like yourself!! :D 

Just want to double check a few things that have been posted here and elsewhere.

*1) Is it imperative that I use a Switch as opposed to Router?* 

The router I am using is 100% a Gigabit router. The reason I ask is because I am having a very hard time finding a Gigabit switch that doesn't incorporate "Green" technology. I have read some info stating that they are no good for VEPro 

Which brings me to my next point...

*2) Is anyone having success using a Gigabit switch (or Gigabit Router) that utilizes "green" technology?*

I am still getting uncontrollable and intolerable clicks and *extreme digital breakup* when bringing in minimal stems. In a few cases I was only playing _one_ midi track.

Perhaps it is because I am using VEPro as a RTAS plugin within ProTools 9?


*3) Is anyone here having success using VEPro as RTAS within PT9? *

There are so many factors involved with trouble shooting a new system that I'm hoping for some advice.

My specs are in my signature. Also, I am connecting the two machines with a Gigabit wireless router (and no they are not using wireless to communicate). When testing there is no other traffic on the router, ie: laptops, phones and such...

My biggest problem right now is intolerable clicks and *extreme digital breakup* as well as Pro Tools freezing randomly which requires a hard reset.

Any ideas where to begin? I am going tonight to borrow a Netgear Switch (it has Green Tech) and try that. I am also about to try a direct link between the 2 computers to try and eliminate problems.

Cheers,
Blizzard


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## mosso (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi,

I'm using a Netgear Gigabit switch (not router) with green technology and it's working just fine. Like you I found it hard to find one without it. It's important to use a switch not a router.

Connecting the 2 computers directly (without a switch or router in the chain) will provide some useful results.

Another factor that could be at play is if you have a low quality network card installed in either machine.

M


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## bluejay (Mar 31, 2011)

The reason that switches are useful is because they control their own subnet. This means that any network traffic between Master and Slave only go as far as the switch (one reason to use a switch rather than a hub). 

If you don't have the switch there then all traffic will go out to the router and therefore out to the wi-fi as well. You will likely find this has a performance hit. 

The other thing to consider is that some onboard network cards are also connected to audio devices so that might be causing a conflict in some way.

No idea about the green switches. I'm using a fairly cheap gigabit switch and it works a treat.


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## blizzard (Mar 31, 2011)

Thanks for chiming in!

Okay. Spent all of last night trying to figure this out and I had no luck. I have managed to get rid of the crippling nasty distortion and now am dealing with just really bad clicks and pops. Sounds just like when you have a wrong clock setting...

...just to be sure, I DO NOT need to have these two computers clocked together do I?? Without having an audio card in the Slave that would make sense.

Let me list the things I have done to troubleshoot:

- Static IPs for both machines
- No Antivirus
- Windows Update OFF
- Firewall OFF
- No Wireless enabled (neither CPU has wifi)

I have tried connecting the two computers with a cable directly between the two network ports - Clicks and Pops.

I have tried connecting the two computers with a gigabit router between the two - Clicks and Pops.

I have tried connecting the two with a gigabit switch http://www.netgear.com/products/serv...hes/GS108.aspx - Clicks and Pops.

Protools is at a 512 buffer.

***So I just tried increasing the buffer to 1024 and got rid of my clicks and pops! Which is great apart from the fact that a 1024 buffer is way too for recording parts live. But it does lead me to believe that the network problem might be solved and now it's just settings that I need to tweak. Lets hope. 

Any ideas on settings I can change?


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## blizzard (Mar 31, 2011)

I was told here http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=298133 that I needed to make sure the Buffer settings were the same between Protools and VEPro. Hmmm..the only option I have in VEPro for buffer is:

- None 
- 1 Buffer
- 2 Buffer

It is currently set to 2 Buffer (default) and Protools is set to 512. As I said 1024 seems to work sometimes. Still getting a few clicks and pops. Are there further settings in VEPro that I am missing??

I also finally got a chance to test both computers for dropouts using this http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

MASTER - http://img218.imageshack.us/i/dpclatencymaximus.jpg/
SLAVE - http://img832.imageshack.us/i/dpclatencyp5q.jpg/

I'm no expert but that doesn't look so bad.

And then I did a Throughput Test.

Result was an average of 914 Mbits/sec between the computers. I verified this 3 times. AFAIK this is only uni-directional but still, should be good for audio over LAN.

PT Buffer / VEPro Buffer Tests

I tried different settings with Protools Buffer, Host Processors and VEPro buffer settings. I got generally got clicks and pops when PT had a low buffer (256) and VEPro Buffer was also low (none).

The best results I was getting were at PT 512 Buffer / VEPro Buffer 1 and 4 Processors in PT.

This was with 8 midi tracks all connected to the VEPro Slave through 1 instance. There was around 40 voices playing back.

Once I get into around 40 midi tracks playing back through 3 instances of RTAS VEPro plugs I am getting -9128 errors (cpu usage) but the Protools System Usage only shows around 45%. I am also getting frequent clicks.

I know that the PT System Usage can sometimes be incorrect - Windows System Resources shows even less CPU usage, around 30%.

I'm going to keep scraping the forum trying to find something more to try - perhaps in another VEPro thread. In the interim, any more ideas would be great!

Thanks for all your help everyone!
Andrew


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## Garlu (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi Andrew,

Lately, I have put together some templates for different composers using VEP, and... I´d suggest:

- Revise on the slave server/preferences, how many threads do you have assigned per instance? The "logical" way to do it would be: imagine we have 8 cores, and you have 4 instances, you would choose 2 threads... BUT, I found out in a couple of systems that, threads should be assigned to 1 thread (yeah, I know, weird): just 1 (so you won´t have that digital distortion).

- If your template is really big, try to open a new session and do a "import session data" (and select a few tracks); sometimes the PT session (for some strange reason) seems to get corrupted. 

Please, let us now how you solve it... 

Thanks!

Garlu


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## blizzard (Apr 1, 2011)

I've tried a few more things and still getting a few clicks and pops.

- I've tried both 44.1K and 48K (just to see if there was a difference on cpu load). 
- I am just going to install PLAY 32bit and give that a try (I didn't have it installed...didn't think I would need it :| ) Though I doubt that it will give that much improvement.

I am having a hard time getting VEPro settings to be reliable. Down at the bottom of the instance GUI, sometimes it will tell me the session info such as sample rate, latency, how many output/input channels. Does it only show this info for a short while after you have made a change to the VEPro settings? It isn't always there...

I am running a Core2 Duo Quad machine for the slave. This machine should be plenty powerful enough to do what I am wanting it to. I have been trying to change the "Threads per instance" in VEPro but I'm not noticing and difference in performance. I figure 1 Thread per instance, as suggested by Garlu, is where I will keep it for now?

Then on top of this there is another setting that I have yet to really play around with - the PLAY engine settings. I have been running it a the medium for now.

This. Is. Starting. To. Get. Very. Annoying.


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## José Herring (Apr 1, 2011)

Sorry for all your trouble. I went through the same thing only to realize that doing audio over lan on a slave machine just didn't work for me. Especially under heavy loads.

Now putting it on your host machine and using the network loopback protocol works like a dream come true.

I was at a demo of VEPro done by the VSL team here in LA. I don't know what they had their host machine set at but they had their slave machine set at 2 buffers. It seemed to work but they weren't doing much with it.

I'm extremely skeptical of people that say they have this working. I think they may have it working at Remote Control, but not sure if they've made that transition. I know I was over there talking to the tech guys about VEPro which they did have some interest in.

At any rate I know they use some pretty beefy network switches at RC. Maybe that's what's needed to make them work. The switches aren't terribly expensive.

You can check it out here: 

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/power ... j-switches
Jose


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## blizzard (Apr 1, 2011)

I'm feeling quite skeptical now as well...

We shouldn't have to use an enterprise grade switch to get this working. A gigabit switch should be plenty. 

Below are the only settings that seem to be working pop and click free for me over here. Keep in mind that this is at a buffer of 1024 within Protools. Totally unacceptable for composing.

I currently only have EW PLAY within VEpro and the only settings available to change are:

Maximum Voices
Engine Level

AFAIK, Engine Level works like this:
Low = More Disk Streaming / More CPU for host
High = More RAM Streaming / Less CPU for host

* 1 instance of VEPro on Slave machine within the Server. This is hosting 13 instances of PLAY.
* I am playing back 38 midi tracks from within Protools
* PLAY - Active Streaming Voices max was 267
* VEPro Buffer of 1 within Protools RTAS
* VEPro 1 Thread per instance
* PLAY Maximum Voices - 1024
* PLAY Engine Level - Low
* Protools - H/W Buffer - 1024
* Host Processors - 4
* VEPro CPU (bottom right corner) is showing around 50% when running!
* PLAY CPU shows up to 100% when playing back!!!!

This is the only settings that I can use where I don't get pops and clicks.

Totally unusable. I'm moments away from abandoning VEPro and going back to a lightpipe setup for this upcoming project (which starts on Tuesday!!!) Which sucks because I can only get 4 Digital stereo stems into Protools...

Argh.


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## José Herring (Apr 1, 2011)

Seems like you have a perfectly acceptable host computer. have you considered running your vepro instances on your Host? I made this switch and it works wonderfully.

I'm not quite sure how PT will handle VEPro routing, but on Cubase I have 38 audio inputs and 22 midi outs running with VEPro 64bit and can get about 1000 voices from Kontakt before my asio driver craps out. funny thing is that my CPU meters hit about 25%. So I'm in need of a better audio card.

Not sure that Play is that efficient, but I've seen Play get up to 700 voices without sweating too hard.

Also, VEPro is a great standalone VST host. Some sort of combination of VEPro on your host and VEPro standalone on your slave might work. Say putting your Strings, ww and perc on your host and putting your Brass on your slave. Then you could split the brass as low and high brass sending them to separate stereo outputs.

I feel your pain. I went through the exact same thing for about a week and finally threw in the towel.

And, I agree running PT at 1024 would be terrible. That reminds me of my Mac G3 days. totally unusable.


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## blizzard (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks for the advice Jose. 

I think I am going to abandon the VEPro for now. Which is a HUGE drag because I can now only get 4 stereo stems via lightpipe from my Slave. Not the setup I want.

I might try VEPro on the host machine and see if it works. But unfortunately the whole point was to relieve Protools from CPU strains so I could use multiple verbs, delays, eq, elastic audio and such with no problems. I am doing combined composing and sound design projects and need to have a lot of different things going on at once.

I might try a few more things tonight...and if that doesn't work. It's back to using Reaper to host on my slave and Bidule via rewire to host on my DAW.

I'm off to pout a little bit now... :( 

Thanks for the help everyone!
Andrew


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