# Windows 11



## propianist (Jun 16, 2021)

WINDOWS 11

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/
https://www.gearnews.com/windows-11-leak-a-first-glimpse-at-the-new-interface/

It's coming whether you like it or not.

Q1. Will you choose to upgrade sooner or cling on to Windows 10 for as long as possible?

Q2. Can you guarantee all your sample libraries and licenses will smoothly migrate and work?

Q3. Can sample manufacturers assure us of 100% support and compatibility? How soon are their updates coming?

Q4. Are you willing to reinstall your entire operating system on your existing main music computer?

Q5. Would you prefer new install with a new SSD / new motherboard / whole new computer and a total fresh start for Windows 11?

Q6. How many license installs do you have left for your sample libraries onto a new computer?

Q7. Would you pay full retail or buy limited OEM version of Windows 11?

Q8. I remember reading when I purchased Windows 10 that Microsoft promised that was their final ultimate "version" of Windows, per se, and from then on they'd be rolling out continuous updates to the platform in future but it would always basically remain as Windows 10. So now it seems they lied.

Q9. How long before Microsoft cease support for Windows 10? Are they going to more or less force you onto Windows 11?

...and most importantly...

Q10. Why the hell do they have to keep fundamentally changing the whole damn OS just for pointless cosmetic reasons?!


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## cqd (Jun 16, 2021)

Will it be that much different under the hood?..
Word on the street is it might be a free upgrade..
I'll probably wait a bit, but it probably shouldn't be too bad libraries wise I would think..
Reinstalling everything takes a day pretty much, but it's doable..Definitely completely wipe the ssd and a clean install whenever I do decide to..


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## Alchemedia (Jun 16, 2021)

Windows support lasts *10 years*, but... For each version of its OS, Microsoft offers a minimum of 10 years of support (at least five years of Mainstream Support, followed by five years of Extended Support). Both types include security and program updates, self-help online topics and extra help you can pay for. Windows 10 was released in July 2015, and extended support is slated to end in 2025. Major feature updates are released twice a year, typically in March and in September, and Microsoft recommends installing each update as it is available.


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## Robo Rivard (Jun 16, 2021)

A thread was already created regarding the Windows 11 upgrade...





Uh oh... Windows 11 Coming Soon - Official Announcement on June 24th


Make sure you turn off Automatic Update, if you can. https://www.cnet.com/how-to/a-major-windows-10-update-is-coming-soon-heres-what-to-know/




vi-control.net


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## bill5 (Jun 16, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> Windows support lasts *10 years*, but... For each version of its OS, Microsoft offers a minimum of 10 years of support (at least five years of Mainstream Support, followed by five years of Extended Support). Both types include security and program updates, self-help online topics and extra help you can pay for. Windows 10 was released in July 2015, and extended support is slated to end in 2025. Major feature updates are released twice a year, typically in March and in September, and Microsoft recommends installing each update as it is available.


LOL

I've had at least 6 or 7 updates this year alone (I lost count). And Microblow doesn't "recommend" updates, it FORCES them on you.

I hate Win 10 with a passion but shudder to think how much worse the new Windows will be. I plan to install Win 7 on my next PC. 

Finally, "Microsoft support" is an oxymoron.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 16, 2021)

Ok


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## CeDur (Jun 17, 2021)

I'm using Windows 7 on 2012 HP Elitebook (SSD and RAM upgraded), dedicated to my music production hobby: it never dissapointed me. No bluescreens since I bought it, maybe 1 crash a year when I try to load more samples into memory than there is actual physical RAM (16GB). Not a performance monster, but I'm a hobbyst, usually just play with 10-15 tracks, mix vocals with piano or just play modern sample libraries for fun. With 7 I'm sure, that when I change something, configure some services etc. - it stays like that until I change it again. When I'm taking the laptop for a live gig, I'm sure it will turn on in 10s and behave like I left it.

Now, next to my old Elitebook, there is a brand-new-super-powerful work laptop, with Win10 of course. When I have have an online meeting, I know I have to turn up at least 15min earlier, because around once every 2 weeks I have to wait for updates to install before my OS loads. Also I get blue-screenned at least once a month. When I turn-off auto-updates, they are randomly on when I load system again. To change more than basic stuff for audio/display settings, you have to dig into menus, deeper and deeper with each bigger update. Some random notifications with stupid stuff like suggestions what I should watch, do etc. appear quite often. Definitely OS targeted to completely non-technical users.

My impression is that there is a general trend to make everything "simpler" and "idiot-proof", but there is a price for that. When someone knows what he/she wants, knows how to do it and has some technical knowledge it's harder and harder with every new OS distribution.


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## mussnig (Jun 17, 2021)

propianist said:


> Q6. How many license installs do you have left for your sample libraries onto a new computer?


What do you mean with that? Usually there is something like "up to two computers at a time" or some licensing system like iLok. Worst case would be that you have to contact e.g. Spitfire support in case you are out of resets etc.
Which sample libraries have a hard limit on the total number of installations?


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## Akora (Jun 17, 2021)

There are ways to disable the Windows updates, besides the immediately available but time limited options, in the Windows Update settings. Those let you postpone the updates from 7 to 35 days, but after which you *have* to update before you can postpone again.

Instead, you can try some of the options on this page: https://www.cleverfiles.com/howto/disable-update-windows-10.html

This should disable the update feature entirely, until you reverse the changes you make and you don't have to be a computer wiz to do this.


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## d.healey (Jun 17, 2021)

What happened to W10 being the last version of Windows...


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## Kent (Jun 17, 2021)

d.healey said:


> What happened to W10 being the last version of Windows...


gotta keep up with macOS, I guess?


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## Casiquire (Jun 17, 2021)

bill5 said:


> LOL
> 
> I've had at least 6 or 7 updates this year alone (I lost count). And Microblow doesn't "recommend" updates, it FORCES them on you.
> 
> ...


Pssst--set your WiFi as a "metered network". That means Windows thinks you pay by the byte, so it won't download updates until you allow it by switching it back to an un-metered network. You can control exactly when the update happens that way


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## zwhita (Jun 17, 2021)

Staying on W7 for the DAW machine, which usually stays off the network(except for updates). Next laptop I get will likely have W11 for safer network usage.


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## bill5 (Jun 17, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Pssst--set your WiFi as a "metered network". That means Windows thinks you pay by the byte, so it won't download updates until you allow it by switching it back to an un-metered network. You can control exactly when the update happens that way


Hmm - I read about that awhile back and as I recall it delays but doesn't prevent forced updates?


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## Casiquire (Jun 17, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Hmm - I read about that awhile back and as I recall it delays but doesn't prevent forced updates?


I have yet to see it force an update. Maybe if you try to delay for like a year or something, but I'll usually delay for weeks until i finally feel like doing it

The update reminder icon does get angrier and angrier. But i can live with that


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## bill5 (Jun 17, 2021)

I can't.  I can already delay without metering. I want em stopped. Thanks though!


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## Toecutter (Jun 17, 2021)

d.healey said:


> What happened to W10 being the last version of Windows...


Yep... according to this https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11/ Everyone that said Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows doesn't work there anymore.


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## Markrs (Jun 17, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Yep... according to this https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11/ Everyone that said Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows doesn't work there anymore.


I believe (correct me if I am wrong) Microsoft thought IE 5 would be the last version (this back in like 2004) of IE as microsoft didn't think WWW would develop much further. Then again Microsoft didn't think WWW would be a success in the first place.


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## Polkasound (Jun 17, 2021)

To answer the first of the ten questions, I continue to use the same PC and same OS until either the PC dies or the OS becomes so old that not even a web browser will support it.

In 2006, I built a Win XP Pro PC and used it up until 2020. Too many websites stopped functioning on the old, unsupported browsers, so I built a Windows 10 PC to replace it. My hope is to continue using my Windows 10 PC into the early 2030s.

In 2013, I built a Windows 7 PC for my studio. It uses an older interface and cards that are not officially supported by Windows 10, and it works as flawlessly as the day I built it, so I have no intention of upgrading it. Ever.

When the time comes when Windows 10 just won't function anymore, I'll build a new PC from scratch using the latest OS, which, by that time, could be Windows 11, 12, or 13.


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## jamwerks (Jun 17, 2021)

Apple updates their OS like three times a years. There are always compatibility issues with plugs and daws. Window updates and advances once every 5-6 years and people complain?


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## cqd (Jun 17, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Apple updates their OS like three times a years. There are always compatibility issues with plugs and daws. Window updates and advances once every 5-6 years and people complain?


Exactly..every bloody pro tools update they get away with one feature being it works on the latest mac os..It would probably write and mix stuff itself at this stage only for that..


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## Ciochi (Jun 17, 2021)

I had very little issues with win10 from the beginning to now. I guess I will upgrade on laptop and check compatibility before upgrading on main machine. I don't get all that hate on win10, it never crashed me or very very few times.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jun 17, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> I had very little issues with win10 from the beginning to now. I guess I will upgrade on laptop and check compatibility before upgrading on main machine. I don't get all that hate on win10, it never crashed me or very very few times.


Have to admit it's very stable for me too. I think it has to do with changes they made. Like finding the config panel etc. It's just confusing. That's what bothers me with 10. But I'm use to it now. I have the legacy start menu or whatever it's called mind you.


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## Technostica (Jun 17, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Apple updates their OS like three times a years. There are always compatibility issues with plugs and daws. Window updates and advances once every 5-6 years and people complain?


Apple has a new revision once a year I believe, whereas W10 has one twice a year.
They both get updates in between of course but those are relatively minor.


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## Technostica (Jun 17, 2021)

“I don't get all that hate on win10”.

It’s very simple, many people have reported major issues.
One of the bugbears is that MS have made it harder to defer the biannual upgrades.
I find it unacceptable that a company wilfully tries to force an upgrade on me.
I shouldn’t have to spend time to find what the latest method is to opt out of something.
Bunch of **** ***** and *******.


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## bill5 (Jun 17, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Apple updates their OS like three times a years. There are always compatibility issues with plugs and daws. Window updates and advances once every 5-6 years and people complain?


I assume by "updates," you mean "an entirely new OS," not the updates that are rammed down Win 10 owner's throats on a regular basis.

I do not complain about how often a new OS does or doesn't come out. (Personally I think they all do it more often than needed mostly just as a money grab, because people have been brainwashed into this "ohhh I have to get the newest!" foolishness.) I will complain, however, if that new OS sucks in whatever way.

I won't even get into "advances."


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## Wedge (Jun 17, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Apple updates their OS like three times a years. There are always compatibility issues with plugs and daws. Window updates and advances once every 5-6 years and people complain?


Windows updates biannually and quite often break things in the OS, it moves and hides settings, adds /removes features (where did workgroups go? Oh MS got rid of them in a fall update and just didn't mention it.) So people are almost always complaining, it's not just every 5-6 years. But as Microsoft continues to do things that most end users don't care about, while hiding more and more things, and causing more crashes. I have dealt with a lot of BSODs on various machines, Win 10 1607 and 1703 were the worste. So what is a rock solid experience for some isn't for others. Windows has always gone in waves win95 buggy, win98 less buggy, win98se stable, windows me buggy, winxp less buggy, winxpse stable, win vista buggy, win7 less buggy, win7 se stable, win8 buggy, win 8.1 less buggy, win10 relatively stable (I'm pretty sure I've dealt with more problems than your average user, I also deal with a lot more than two or three machines), so does that mean MS is bucking the trend and 11 will be stable or as the cycle goes and be buggy? That's Microsofts track record and seeing that they got rid of beta testers (that's the home and pro users now) their updates break quite a bit of shit and your average user doesn't know how to actually disable autoupdate (only defer it for a couple weeks.) Because of 'security' but it seems to me if they cared about security they would have kept feature and security updates separate. At the very least they wouldn't have gotten ridden of explanations of what the update does or is for. [I skipped the Server versions since they aren't meant for endusers, but Win2000 was the most stable version of Win I've used.]

People have been complaining forever, but when Windows went to 8 from Win7se it ramped up a lot. Google 'windows has reset your default' and you can see this complaining is on going, it's not just every 5-6 years. People groan and deal with it because that's about all you can do (yes, you can use Linux but that's not a reasonable option for a lot of things or a lot of people. Apple is more expensive and more locked down, so I'd say that's not an option for a lot of people either.) 

So when there's news a big update is coming, everyone who's already annoyed by things goes... AHHH FUCK! How are they going to screw it up this time?! I mean they're going up a version number to 11. They're calling it a big update. Saying there are going to be 'big changes.' So what's changing? They showed that the start menu can be centered and the corners of windows are rounded. I don't care about that, that doesn't affect me. It's almost like being in a sort of abusive relationship (I don't mean to play down actual abuse, I just can't think of a better way to put it.) They update without your permission, move things around and don't tell they moved them, crash your system, remove features silently, reset your default apps to MS apps because the really want you using their apps so they can track you on top of the tracking the OS does that you can't turn off(Even in Windows Enterprise you can't fully turn it off and you can't use the Settings-App to do it. Nope. You have go into Group Policy Editor to turn it down to level 1 telemetry. Using the setting app in Enterprise you can only set it to the second least intrusive level. I think 3 is the lowest you can set it in Home.)

Everything I have at home and at work is on LTSC or Enterprise and so I'm not fretting this update that much. The laptops might have problems as they're just on Enterprise. But I can defer the update a few months to see how it's going and will disable updates if needed. Our LTSC licenses are good for five more years so I have nothing to worry about there, no feature updates with LTSC (might end up moving everthing there.) But at the same time I feel bad for people that don't know how to fix these problems. I feel bad for my parents when they call me frustrated from across the country. I ended up sending them new laptops that I set up because they were getting so frustrated. So I find a lot of what Microsost is doing is frustrating and is sad. And their current adoption of Linux of late reminds me of the biggest tenets of Microsofts' history - Embrace, Extend, Extinquish.


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## sostenuto (Jun 17, 2021)

Judd said:


> Windows updates biannually and quite often break things in the OS, it moves and hides settings, adds /removes features (where did workgroups go? Oh MS got rid of them in a fall update and just didn't mention it.) So people are almost always complaining, it's not just every 5-6 years. But as Microsoft continues to do things that most end users don't care about, while hiding more and more things, and causing more crashes. I have dealt with a lot of BSODs on various machines, Win 10 1607 and 1703 were the worste. So what is a rock solid experience for some isn't for others. Windows has always gone in waves win95 buggy, win98 less buggy, win98se stable, windows me buggy, winxp less buggy, winxpse stable, win vista buggy, win7 less buggy, win7 se stable, win8 buggy, win 8.1 less buggy, win10 relatively stable (I'm pretty sure I've dealt with more problems than your average user, I also deal with a lot more than two or three machines), so does that mean MS is bucking the trend and 11 will be stable or as the cycle goes and be buggy? That's Microsofts track record and seeing that they got rid of beta testers (that's the home and pro users now) their updates break quite a bit of shit and your average user doesn't know how to actually disable autoupdate (only defer it for a couple weeks.) Because of 'security' but it seems to me if they cared about security they would have kept feature and security updates separate. At the very least they wouldn't have gotten ridden of explanations of what the update does or is for. [I skipped the Server versions since they aren't meant for endusers, but Win2000 was the most stable version of Win I've used.]
> 
> People have been complaining forever, but when Windows went to 8 from Win7se it ramped up a lot. Google 'windows has reset your default' and you can see this complaining is on going, it's not just every 5-6 years. People groan and deal with it because that's about all you can do (yes, you can use Linux but that's not a reasonable option for a lot of things or a lot of people. Apple is more expensive and more locked down, so I'd say that's not an option for a lot of people either.)
> 
> ...


Enterprise never considered previously, coming from waaaay back, to Win7,8,8.1,10 Pro. Will do some serious searching now. 
Anything(s) you feel is notable to pay attention to when considering change from Win10 Pro to Enterprise _ mainly DAW usage ? _ OR _ _are you not commenting relative to majority of DAW Users here ?_


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## mutex (Jun 17, 2021)

It's not like Windows 11 is going to change anything fundamental. They'll probably change cosmetic stuff, add more data collection points, add more spots to blend in ads everywhere, etc.

Executables will still be 64 bit. Win32 API isn't going to change much, if at all, DLLs will still work the same way, so VSTs (who essentially are DLLs) will probably also all work normally.

I'll probably going to update, but I'm not going to reinstall from scratch.


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## bill5 (Jun 17, 2021)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Have to admit it's very stable for me too. I think it has to do with changes they made. Like finding the config panel etc. It's just confusing. That's what bothers me with 10. But I'm use to it now. I have the legacy start menu or whatever it's called mind you.


There is a free program called "Classic shell" that makes the UI look like Win 7. One of the first things I did.


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## Technostica (Jun 17, 2021)

bill5 said:


> There is a free program called "Classic shell" that makes the UI look like Win 7. One of the first things I did.


I have been using that with no issues since I first used Windows 8.0 and now with W10. 
A life saver and very easy to tweak to your own taste.


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## Wedge (Jun 17, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Enterprise never considered previously, coming from waaaay back, to Win7,8,8.1,10 Pro. Will do some serious searching now.
> Anything(s) you feel is notable to pay attention to when considering change from Win10 Pro to Enterprise _ mainly DAW usage ? _ OR _ _are you not commenting relative to majority of DAW Users here ?_


I was just trying to explain why people get nervous with windows updates and I got long winded. Not too related to any specific to DAWs in the post.

For Pro or Enterprise, Enterprise has better privacy settings. Better control of updates without digging in the system ( Can defer updates for a couple months instead of weeks, lets MS get the kinks out/ remove bad updates.) In GPE (group policy editor) you can turn off microsoft advertising in Enterprise, in pro you can't change the setting, just see the options. There little things like that but if you know what you're doing they add up to a better experience. 

It's a bit different with Enterprise LTSC though. LTSC doesn't have Cortana or the Windows Store (things I have no use for), so it has a bit smaller footprint. But you may have to add some audio codecs that would normally come with windows. And if you're using a laptop you will probably want to dig around for the manufactures power management settings app and sideload it (I've done that with both Dell and Lenovo systems). Unless you're using a pretty strained device I'd say the difference is pretty negligible as far as resource use goes. But it is nice to have a system that won't get feature updates, only security. That way once your machine is set up, it should be without any wonky suprises. And no advertising, no Candy Crush or any of that crap, very little to remove. So it's just a lot cleaner and more solid. So I greatly prefer LTSC, a new version of it is supposed to be coming out in the fall (the current versions life end is in five years) and they are going to shorten it's life span from 10 years to 5 years, and it doesn't upgrade for free. So I'm not sure if you want to go that route, or wait and see what the new version includes. I honestly feel like this is the version of Windows everyone wanted when 10 came out but can't get (it's only sold with bulk licensing. You can check my previous posts - go back like five and you will see a link on where you can purchase a license if you're inclined to go that way. ) If you are into gaming do not get LTSC, some games require current updates and LTSC will not have them.

In the grand scheme of things Pro should be great for your DAW. It's other things about the OS that I upgrade for.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 17, 2021)

cqd said:


> Word on the street is it might be a free upgrade..


Hope so. I'm about to do a new build and would love some clarity on it.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jun 17, 2021)

bill5 said:


> There is a free program called "Classic shell" that makes the UI look like Win 7. One of the first things I did.


That's the one. Thanks.


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## Stevie (Jun 17, 2021)

d.healey said:


> What happened to W10 being the last version of Windows...


I totally had the same thought


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## NekujaK (Jun 17, 2021)

I'm clinging to Win 7 for as long as I possibly can - at least on my music computer. For my daily PC, I decided to give Win 10 a shot, keeping an open mind, and not rushing to any snap judgments.

There was an initial getting acquainted period, and at first, I appreciated some of the changes and ways of doing things. But then after 6 months of consistent use, I could unequivocally declare without reservation that I despise Win 10. End of story.


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## Quasar (Jun 17, 2021)

d.healey said:


> What happened to W10 being the last version of Windows...


Famous "last" words...


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## lastmessiah (Jun 17, 2021)

Refusing to install Windows updates is extremely misguided. You are only making things worse in the long run, and for no good reason.


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## bill5 (Jun 17, 2021)

Hardly.

And moot point with Win 10 anyway as you CAN'T refuse.


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## Scalms (Jun 17, 2021)

Okay Okay, Windows11 update- don't want right now,

I've got Windows10 Home Edition. 

How do I stop the update?

Some say its easy, others say it can't be done. I haven't seen a good answer yet in this thread or the other alternate thread. Help us out here! what can be done?


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## lp59burst (Jun 17, 2021)




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## bill5 (Jun 17, 2021)

Scalms said:


> Okay Okay, Windows11 update- don't want right now,
> 
> I've got Windows10 Home Edition.
> 
> How do I stop the update?


lol. You don't.


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## Toecutter (Jun 18, 2021)

Windows 10 already has a retirement date








Windows 10 Home and Pro - Microsoft Lifecycle


Windows 10 Home and Pro follows the Modern Lifecycle Policy.



docs.microsoft.com





Microsoft will continue to support at least one Windows 10 Semi-Annual Channel until October 14, 2025.


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## Klesk (Jun 18, 2021)

lastmessiah said:


> Refusing to install Windows updates is extremely misguided. You are only making things worse in the long run, and for no good reason.


It is for a good reason. If your system works and is stable, it doesn't really need an update. Update will occasionally break functionality of some software or drivers, plus Windows 10 updates tend to reset some settings which is annoying.


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## sostenuto (Jun 18, 2021)

Unrestricted Updates since Win8.1 have each introduced minimal change .... perhaps lessening negative results ? 
Will follow June 24 Livestream, ongoing info releases, and will go with Win11 when released. 
Never a serious issue with any of (3) self-built Desktop PC(s), going back to: i5 1440, i5 4440, i7 870.

Hoping to rebuild /upgrade all fairly soon .... $$$$$$


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## RogiervG (Jun 19, 2021)

we don't know what windows 11 will be. the iso image found on the net might not at all reflect the end product by any means. we seen this before (windows 8 leak vs actual end product. oh and project longhorn before that)
lets not speculate, and wait till the official details become available form microsoft themselves. and when it's released (which can be next year e.g.)wait till enough early adopters have vented their real use experiences with the os, before making a choice on what you will do


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## Hadrondrift (Jun 19, 2021)

d.healey said:


> What happened to W10 being the last version of Windows...


The other day I read on an IT portal that Microsoft would have said Windows 10 is the last Windows, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it always has to be called Windows 10. 

This form of reasoning reminded me of Bill Clinton, where it depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is.

Personally, I do not rate the statement "Win 10 is last version" as a conscious lie, but as a foolish assessment of the market at the time of the statement.


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## dylanmixer (Jun 19, 2021)

It leaked. I downloaded on my laptop. It's literally just light UI changes. Hardly anything behind the hood. I'm sure it's an older beta version that leaked, and not the final, but I seriously doubt we're in for any major changes. Cubase seems to run fine natively on it. Although again, I don't think it's the final version.


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## mussnig (Jun 19, 2021)

dylanmixer said:


> It leaked. I downloaded on my laptop. It's literally just light UI changes. Hardly anything behind the hood. I'm sure it's an older beta version that leaked, and not the final, but I seriously doubt we're in for any major changes. Cubase seems to run fine natively on it. Although again, I don't think it's the final version.


I was reading that post in my emails and thought this was the Infinite Series thread. Really thought at first that IB 1.6 somehow got leaked 😆


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 20, 2021)

Some believe Win11 will be a free upgrade. It makes sense, since they're ending support for Win10 in 2025 and they want to move people off older, unsupported versions.









Is Windows 11 a free upgrade for Windows 10 and Windows 7?


Windows 11 is right around the corner, and a big question is probably on everyone's mind: will it be a free upgrade? The short answer is yes.




www.xda-developers.com













Why Windows 11 Will Likely Be a Free Upgrade from Windows 10 | Digital Trends


Windows 11 is coming soon, and judging from how Microsoft has done things in the past, it is likely that it could be a free upgrade for everyone to enjoy.




www.digitaltrends.com


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## Markrs (Jun 20, 2021)

It is all about getting people in your ecosystem. For that reason I think the upgrade will be free, plus issues and maintenance is easier if more people are on the new version. It will still cost money if you need a new full license of 11. So PC manufactures will still need to pay for an OEM license.

The final reason is that Windows is not the primary source of Microsoft's income, especially upgrade revenue.


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## Technostica (Jun 20, 2021)

The big question for me is whether the last consumer version of W10 will be supported until 2025 or will that only be for Enterprise editions?
Historically, the bi-annual consumer releases weren't supported for that long. 
But if the last consumer version is supported until 2025, that means 4 years of less hassle unless they try and force you to upgrade to version 11.
I'm only really interested in the support status.
Until W11 has something I actually need, why bother?


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## Technostica (Jun 23, 2021)

Windows 10 is already a bit Spinal Tap, so God knows what it will be like when they turn it up to 11.


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## Alchemedia (Jun 23, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Microsoft will continue to support at least one Windows 10 Semi-Annual Channel until October 14, *2025*.


If man is still alive.


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## cqd (Jun 23, 2021)

Yeah, Bill Gates will have killed us all with his vaccine by then..


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## Technostica (Jun 23, 2021)

cqd said:


> Yeah, Bill Gates will have killed us all with his vaccine by then..


Are you implying that W11 is released to operate the microchips that are embedded with the vaccine jabs?


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## cqd (Jun 23, 2021)

Technostica said:


> Are you implying that W11 is released to operate the microchips that are embedded with the vaccine jabs?



You need Windows 11 to use 6g, which will do that and turn us all into magnets..

Sinister stuff..

And he laughing about it, the ba$tard..


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## pixel (Jun 25, 2021)

Karen 11 - my summary of W11 after seeing the first half hour of the launch event. 
They're targeting casual users.
More bloatware and cloud-based services working in the background and probably interrupting OS live performance - what audio people need the most


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## TomislavEP (Jun 25, 2021)

At first, I was quite excited about the announced big update for W10, especially when it comes to a promised facelift and further streamlining. But the more and more I read about W11, the less happy I am.

The good news is that W11 should be a free upgrade from previous (legitimate) versions. However, the fact that it requires certain "newer" technologies (such as UEFI), makes things much more difficult. For example, in addition to my studio rig, I also actively use another system for everything else, including photo and video editing. Since this has an older MBO, I would probably need to build a new PC if I want to stay supported, despite the fact that this one still satisfies the most what I expect from it. Fortunately, there is still (plenty) of time to think about it.


----------



## pixel (Jun 25, 2021)

Also, TPM is necessary to run W11. I never needed it, so I have to investigate it. So far, my new PC build seems not to have it, or it's deactivated. Apparently, the software option can be enabled. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-11-tpm-enable-bios-uefi

Oh well. So far, for me, the only 'upgrade' Win11 seems to have is the new look.


----------



## bill5 (Jun 25, 2021)

propianist said:


> WINDOWS 11
> 
> 
> Q1. Will you choose to upgrade sooner or cling on to Windows 10 for as long as possible? *I have no intention of ever going beyond 10 *
> ...


----------



## bill5 (Jun 25, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Apple updates their OS like three times a years. There are always compatibility issues with plugs and daws. Window updates and advances once every 5-6 years and people complain?


? Change "years" to "weeks" and you're a lot closer to the truth. Windows is constantly forcing Win 10 updates down users' throats. 

I won't even bother with the fallacy of "advances" - unless you count providing something suckier as an "advance," which they've done on a semi-regular basis.


----------



## sostenuto (Jun 28, 2021)

fwiw ..... (2) Win10 Pro Desktop PC(s), on Insider Preview, just updated _ this time to Windows 11 Pro. Will be setting time aside to sort what's new, and see if all runs as before ??


----------



## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Oct 5, 2021)

Windows 11 is now out! I won't be upgrading just yet, but interesting to see all the features


----------



## KEM (Oct 5, 2021)

bill5 said:


> ? Change "years" to "weeks" and you're a lot closer to the truth. Windows is constantly forcing Win 10 updates down users' throats.
> 
> I won't even bother with the fallacy of "advances" - unless you count providing something suckier as an "advance," which they've done on a semi-regular basis.



Tell me about it, I went deep into the settings to turn off all automatic updates, update notifications, etc. because I don’t want my computer updating at all, and yet they still force me to update by not allowing me to turn off my computer unless I update it, one of my biggest gripes with Windows


----------



## Artemi (Oct 5, 2021)

I've tried all the methods to switch off the updates, reg edit, schedule edit, policy edit
sooner or later the updates are on again.

The only thing that seem to be working is NetLimiter, just cutting the stream seem to eliminate this issue.


----------



## KEM (Oct 5, 2021)

Artemi said:


> I've tried all the methods to switch off the updates, reg edit, schedule edit, policy edit
> sooner or later the updates are on again.
> 
> The only thing that seem to be working is NetLimiter, just cutting the stream seem to eliminate this issue.



I couldn’t find a fix for the life of me and it’s really been frustrating me, every other week it’s “update and shutdown” or “update and sleep”, I’m tired of it, I do not want to update!!


----------



## MartinH. (Oct 5, 2021)

KEM said:


> I couldn’t find a fix for the life of me and it’s really been frustrating me, every other week it’s “update and shutdown” or “update and sleep”, I’m tired of it, I do not want to update!!


So this still hasn't been solved? It's one of the main reasons why I'm still on Win 7, but soon I'll no longer have a choice. 

Afaik there was a trick to shutdown without update by using console command "shutdown /p" instead of clicking the button. Did you try something like that yet? I read they fixed that "workaround" but it seemed to work for me on my dualboot win10 install at least some of the time.


----------



## KEM (Oct 5, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> So this still hasn't been solved? It's one of the main reasons why I'm still on Win 7, but soon I'll no longer have a choice.
> 
> Afaik there was a trick to shutdown without update by using console command "shutdown /p" instead of clicking the button. Did you try something like that yet? I read they fixed that "workaround" but it seemed to work for me on my dualboot win10 install at least some of the time.



Next time I get one (which I’m sure will be very soon) I’ll definitely give that a shot


----------



## TomislavEP (Oct 5, 2021)

After updating BIOS to the latest version available, my DAW system is now fully Windows 11 compliant, but I certainly won't rush with the upgrade. Apart from a welcome facelift, I don't see too many benefits for music production, at least not for the time being.

The main reason why I'm relieved is that I plan to keep using this relatively recently built system after the official support for Windows 10 ends in 2025. Sadly, I'll probably need to change the other two computers that I use regularly in order to stay supported, though more and more I'm thinking about switching to Ubuntu or a Ubuntu based distro on those.


----------



## Wedge (Oct 5, 2021)

I'm in a wait and see stage. It seems like a silly hill to die on but having the taskbar on the bottom feels like I'm going back to win3.11, I've had it on the side for 25+ years. I like having the full height of my monitor for my apps to use while still being able to glance at my taskbar. The only way to currently move it to the top is with a reg tweak and there's no way to put it on the left or right side. It bothers me more than it should and it's another example of how much control of our machines we are continually losing.


----------



## RogiervG (Oct 5, 2021)

My cpu isn't compatible.. those bastards...
I am not going the restrictive hardware route.. in the sense that they force me to buy certain cpu's to be able to run an OS... an OS for crying out load... it's crazy if you think about it. There is no one good true reason for them to do this.. this is just a powertrip.

oh well.. if windows 10 comes to an end..in a few years from now..
it's Linux desktop time or going MacOS......(the latter requires a high priced device though)
for my main usage...

my multimedia installment still can continue to run windows 10 when it's not supported anymore. (just don't hook it online, or only ever so briefly for certain things (update of plugins, and uploading music etc))


----------



## Rossy (Oct 5, 2021)

propianist said:


> WINDOWS 11
> 
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/
> https://www.gearnews.com/windows-11-leak-a-first-glimpse-at-the-new-interface/
> ...


I downloaded the tool to see if I can upgrade, no go for either my laptop of main pc so its windows 10 for me.


----------



## Sunny Schramm (Oct 5, 2021)

Rossy said:


> I downloaded the tool to see if I can upgrade, no go for either my laptop of main pc so its windows 10 for me.


Most Mainboards from the last five Years are TPM 2.0 / Windows 11 compatible. You just need to flash your Bios with the newest Version which should be out for some Days/Weeks from every Manufacturer.


----------



## Guido Pannekoek (Oct 5, 2021)

Your PC is not compatible. Do the PC-control: your PC is compatible.


----------



## wcreed51 (Oct 5, 2021)

There's a better app for testing your compatibility called Whynotwin11. Gives more info


----------



## Guido Pannekoek (Oct 5, 2021)

3DC said:


> See if you have TPM 2.0 enabled. Usually the main reason you can't upgrade on newer rig. I had the same problem but now its all set for upgrade. See this video on how to enable it in BIOS.



That's what I did and now I got two messages: compatible and not compatible. The whynotwin11 app mentioned in the comment above gives all green.


----------



## RogiervG (Oct 5, 2021)

Guido Pannekoek said:


> Your PC is not compatible. Do the PC-control: your PC is compatible.


No, not in my case


----------



## Guido Pannekoek (Oct 5, 2021)

3DC said:


> Try official Microsoft PC HEALTH CHECK for W11.


I did and got compatible after TMP 2.0 enabled but in the update window it says not compatible, do the PC health check. What says compatible. Funny isn't it?


----------



## Polkasound (Oct 5, 2021)

Artemi said:


> I've tried all the methods to switch off the updates, reg edit, schedule edit, policy edit
> sooner or later the updates are on again.


I installed Win 10 Pro in July of 2020 and have never gotten hit with an update. I believe this is the solution that worked:





__





Disable Windows 10 auto update


I know this topic has been discussed before but was wondering if things have changed since. I tried all the suggestions and can't seem to turn off the Windows 10 auto update other than the obvious, disable internet. Anyone ?




vi-control.net


----------



## Guido Pannekoek (Oct 5, 2021)

3DC said:


> Which update window? Where you check for Windows Updates?


Settings > Update & security > Windows Update. There it says PC not compatible. Screenshot at the back. Official PC healtcheck: compatible. Other screenshot.


----------



## Nimrod7 (Oct 5, 2021)

I updated one of my CG workstations to W11 as an experiment. 

They are buggy, start menu randomly crashes, search doesn't open might need to wait a couple of minutes to respond, then might work, and stop again, random mouse lag on drag and drop, like watching the mouse going slow motion (!), other random things. It's a good system, i9 9900K, 60GB, GTX 3090.

The right click menu is horrendous, a simplified version of the normal one. You have to right click, select Show More Options, which gives you the usual right click options. 

Windows 11 are released to the public, and I don't feel they are finished, needs a lot of polishing. 

It's not a fresh install, and the system is quite loaded with apps, which might be my issue at the end. But again, unfinished fits, since a user can't upgrade, and expect an experience that can be tolerated. 

I have an image to restore the system, but I will stick with it out of curiosity to see how Microsoft intents to resolve those issues.


----------



## DaddyO (Oct 5, 2021)

Apparently my PC is not yet ready with PTM 2 for Windows 11. 

Research shows my ASUS Mobo BIOS requires changing the PTT setting from Discrete to Firmware, which generates a message warning something about a recovery key, etc. Any potential problems or consequences from making this change? 

I dunno, I figure it's wise to wait awhile before jumping in.


----------



## Guido Pannekoek (Oct 5, 2021)

DaddyO said:


> Apparently my PC is not yet ready with PTM 2 for Windows 11.
> 
> Research shows my ASUS Mobo BIOS requires changing the PTT setting from Discrete to Firmware, which generates a message warning something about a recovery key, etc. Any potential problems or consequences from making this change?
> 
> I dunno, I figure it's wise to wait awhile before jumping in.











Got a Warning For Enabling Firmware TPM


I recently enabled Firmware TPM in my BIOS in order to see if my system is compatible with Windows 11. My question is about the following warning I got when I enabled Firmware TPM: Intel PTT is a




superuser.com


----------



## DaddyO (Oct 5, 2021)

Guido Pannekoek said:


> Got a Warning For Enabling Firmware TPM
> 
> 
> I recently enabled Firmware TPM in my BIOS in order to see if my system is compatible with Windows 11. My question is about the following warning I got when I enabled Firmware TPM: Intel PTT is a
> ...


Thanks for the link. More helpful than I was finding.


----------



## Rossy (Oct 5, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> Most Mainboards from the last five Years are TPM 2.0 / Windows 11 compatible. You just need to flash your Bios with the newest Version which should be out for some Days/Weeks from every Manufacturer.


Thanks but my CPU



is not compatible also.


----------



## Rossy (Oct 5, 2021)

3DC said:


> See if you have TPM 2.0 enabled. Usually the main reason you can't upgrade on newer rig. I had the same problem but now its all set for upgrade. See this video on how to enable it in BIOS.



Looks like its not just TMP 2.0 but my CPU also, thanks anyway.


----------



## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Oct 5, 2021)

Guido Pannekoek said:


> Settings > Update & security > Windows Update. There it says PC not compatible. Screenshot at the back. Official PC healtcheck: compatible. Other screenshot.


Most likely because your cpu is too old. Only 7th generation intel processors or AMD equivalent processors are compatible


----------



## sostenuto (Oct 5, 2021)

Interesting that MS chose to allow Insider Updates to Win11 Pro, for systems *not* qualifying per current criteria. Have not found much of great interest with Win11 Pro .... _BUT_ process for getting back to Win*10* Pro is undefined ___ other than 'obvious' painful clean install. 
Anyone heard related news ?


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 5, 2021)

This TPM2.0 requirement is a godsend; it means MS won't push Win11 down my throat!


----------



## Artemi (Oct 5, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> I installed Win 10 Pro in July of 2020 and have never gotten hit with an update. I believe this is the solution that worked:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I've heard of that method, you've probably have a Win 10 Pro version.


----------



## Guido Pannekoek (Oct 5, 2021)

GeorgeThatMusicGuy said:


> Most likely because your cpu is too old. Only 7th generation intel processors or AMD equivalent processors are compatibl


5950x is not old  But it's ok now. PC healthcheck and the Windows update window say both compatible now


----------



## Guido Pannekoek (Oct 5, 2021)

DaddyO said:


> Thanks for the link. More helpful than I was finding.


I got the same warning with changing to firmware TMP. It does not mean bitlocker is automatically activated. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...-windows-ad5dcf4b-dbe0-2331-228f-7925c2a3012d


----------



## Kony (Oct 5, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> This TPM2.0 requirement is a godsend; it means MS won't push Win11 down my throat!


I hope you're right, but MS may push an "upgrade your CPU to use W11" message instead


----------



## Virtuoso (Oct 6, 2021)

FWIW I installed Windows 11 on my oldest PC (i7 4700k, 32GB, GTX980) yesterday and it's running fine.

It failed the CPU compatibility and TPM 2 tests but there are several ways around that. I had to do a clean install, but it went flawlessly.

The method I used:-








AveYo’s gists


GitHub Gist: star and fork AveYo's gists by creating an account on GitHub.




gist.github.com





Look for AveYo / .. MediaCreationTool.bat ..md

Click download zip, unzip it and run 'MediaCreationTool.bat' It will download the image from Microsoft, make the necessary changes to disable the hardware checks and copy it to a USB drive. From there just boot to the USB drive and you're away. Dead easy.

From Microsoft:-




__





Ways to install Windows 11 - Microsoft Support


Learn how to install Windows 11, including the recommended option of visiting the Windows Update page in Settings.




support.microsoft.com





NB


> Important: An image install of Windows 11 will not check for the following requirements: TPM 2.0 (at least TPM 1.2 is required) and CPU family and model.



The first method also bypasses the need for TPM 1.2


----------



## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Oct 6, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> FWIW I installed Windows 11 on my oldest PC (i7 4700k, 32GB, GTX980) yesterday and it's running fine.
> 
> It failed the CPU compatibility and TPM 2 tests but there are several ways around that. I had to do a clean install, but it went flawlessly.
> 
> ...


Windows 11 when installed this way is not supported by microsoft and will not receive updates.


----------



## Virtuoso (Oct 6, 2021)

GeorgeThatMusicGuy said:


> Windows 11 when installed this way is not supported by microsoft and will not receive updates.


That remains to be seen - Microsoft's official line is:-


> Devices that do not meet these system requirements will *no longer be guaranteed* to receive updates, including but not limited to security updates


I just put it on an old system as a test but I'll keep an eye on how they handle this over the next few weeks.









Microsoft: Unsupported PCs May Not Get Windows 11 Security Updates | CRN


Microsoft is allowing PCs to install Windows 11 even if they don’t meet the minimum system requirements, but such PCs may not receive security updates, the company said.



www.crn.com


----------



## Sunny Schramm (Oct 6, 2021)

Rossy said:


> Thanks but my CPU
> 
> 
> 
> is not compatible also.


ah ok - yes, cpu´s are only supported from 8th generation and higher (at the moment - they will add more generations after some time and roll out W11 to low spec pc´s later I´ve read).


----------



## Sunny Schramm (Oct 7, 2021)

I couldnt resist and did it - the early adopter kicks in 

That was the easiest "upgrade" ever in my windows career and it takes under 30 minutes to complete!

I start the download over this link (first option for upgrading from W10):


Download Windows 11



The Download "and" Installation runs completely in the background and you can work normally till the "Restart"-Option pops up (after about 20 minutes). Restart and last configurations from Windows takes about 5 to 10 minutes.

AND THEN - oh wonder: nothing was forced to be changed. Desktop-Background, Desktop-Icons, Standard-Browser, etc. - everything is how I set it up under Windows 10  The only change is that the taskbar-icons are now in the middle (you can change that) and the application-windows have round edges.

All Drivers work fine - everything was recognized fine in the device-manager. As always you have to re-install the steinberg e-licencer after a big system-update but then - Cubase 11 Pro, Wavelab 11 Pro, etc. works absolutely perfect. Plugins, VST-Instruments and other Programs opens so fast now!

Final thoughts: LOVE IT so far 

BTW: when you "upgrade" from Windows 10 the VBS and HVCI will NOT be activated automatically! Important for Gamers because when its activated it "can" take 20 to 30% of your gaming-performance. But I am sure Microsoft is already working on that.


----------



## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Oct 7, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> I couldnt resist and did it - the early adopter kicks in
> 
> That was the easiest "upgrade" ever in my windows career and it takes under 30 minutes to complete!
> 
> ...


Great to know! Almost everyone I know who beta tested it said everything worked fine, I am just a bit anxious to upgrade due to some of my hardware. The drivers should work, but I would rather be safe than sorry, but ooooooooo, I might end up upgrading anyway as it looks really good. Keep us updated with how everything runs!


----------



## mussnig (Oct 7, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> I couldnt resist and did it - the early adopter kicks in
> 
> That was the easiest "upgrade" ever in my windows career and it takes under 30 minutes to complete!
> 
> ...


Did you notice any differences in performance (when working on larger projects)?


----------



## Technostica (Oct 7, 2021)

Anyone here moving to W11 now because of a new feature?


----------



## Sunny Schramm (Oct 7, 2021)

mussnig said:


> Did you notice any differences in performance (when working on larger projects)?


I´ve used Synthstrations Cubase-Template "Secrets of The Forest" - you can get all Information here:

https://synthestration.com/product/secrets-of-the-forest/
Not the biggest template but it runs absolutely smooth and uses just a little bit of the max possible system-perfomance on the tracks peak (i9 9900K, 32GB Ram, Motu M2 Interface at 128 samples).

Everything feels a bit smoother with W11 for me and what I am absolutely happy about is that my weird CPU-Peaks are history since the upgrade to Windows 11


----------



## mussnig (Oct 7, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> I´ve used Synthstrations Cubase-Template "Secrets of The Forest" - you can get all Information here:
> 
> https://synthestration.com/product/secrets-of-the-forest/
> Not the biggest template but it runs absolutely smooth and uses just a little bit of the max possible system-perfomance on the tracks peak (i9 9900K, 32GB Ram, Motu M2 Interface wie 48khz, 128 samples).
> ...


Thank you - happy to hear that it works smoothly for you!


----------



## Guido Pannekoek (Oct 7, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> I couldnt resist and did it - the early adopter kicks in
> 
> That was the easiest "upgrade" ever in my windows career and it takes under 30 minutes to complete!
> 
> ...


Only bummer is the choice for smaller taskbar icon disappeared but there is a solution 

For the rest it works really fine 









How to Change the Taskbar Size in Windows 11


You can get small, medium or large taskbar and icons.




www.tomshardware.com


----------



## Wedge (Oct 7, 2021)

AMD has come out and said that running Ryzen and Win11 currently has an up to 15% performance drop and they are currently working on it. https://www.pcmag.com/news/amd-warns-of-reduced-performance-for-ryzen-chips-on-windows-11


----------



## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Oct 7, 2021)

Wedge said:


> AMD has come out and said that running Ryzen and Win11 currently has an up to 15% performance drop and they are currently working on it. https://www.pcmag.com/news/amd-warns-of-reduced-performance-for-ryzen-chips-on-windows-11


Thats really good to know as a Ryzen user, thanks for the heads up!


----------



## kitekrazy (Oct 7, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> This TPM2.0 requirement is a godsend; it means MS won't push Win11 down my throat!


That doesn't mean developers wont.


----------



## Guido Pannekoek (Oct 7, 2021)

Wedge said:


> AMD has come out and said that running Ryzen and Win11 currently has an up to 15% performance drop and they are currently working on it. https://www.pcmag.com/news/amd-warns-of-reduced-performance-for-ryzen-chips-on-windows-11


"AMD has announced that all of its WIndows 11-compatible processors can suffer from reduced performance in some applications when used with the new operating system, with extreme outliers in eSports gaming titles resulting in up to a 10-15% reduction. For applications, AMD says that the performance impact weighs in at 3–5%. A software update _and_ a Windows Update are in the works to address the issues, with both expected to arrive in October 2021 (this month)." 









AMD: Windows 11 Slows Our CPUs Up To 15%, Patch Coming


High latency bug hits fast




www.tomshardware.com


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 7, 2021)

kitekrazy said:


> That doesn't mean developers wont.


If you're talking about non-MS developers, I don't think I have to worry in the next 3-5 years.


----------



## TomislavEP (Oct 8, 2021)

As I'm using Ryzen 7 in my current DAW system, I will certainly wait with the upgrade until this is thoroughly sorted out (as well as any other "baby illnesses" still waiting to be revealed).

Frankly, apart from the new looks, I'm not too excited about the newest Windows version for now, except for the fact that Windows 10 will eventually stop being supported so it's good to know that my system would be compliant with Windows 11. At least my DAW is. For the others that I'm using in addition, welcome Linux...


----------



## GNP (Oct 8, 2021)

propianist said:


> ...and most importantly...
> 
> Q10. Why the hell do they have to keep fundamentally changing the whole damn OS just for pointless cosmetic reasons?!


Because they're shallow.


----------



## novaburst (Oct 8, 2021)

Wedge said:


> AMD has come out and said that running Ryzen and Win11 currently has an up to 15% performance drop and they are currently working on it. https://www.pcmag.com/news/amd-warns-of-reduced-performance-for-ryzen-chips-on-windows-11


i have been reading about this it does sound a bit suspect leading to the new Intel CPU, 

but i could be wrong


----------



## chimuelo (Oct 13, 2021)

There’s already some ways around older Mobo/CPU lacking TPM requirements.
Good news for those who fiddle around.
Personally I won’t be fixing something that already works.









Here's how to bypass Windows 11's TPM and CPU requirements


Microsoft has done an abysmal job of communicating the Windows 11 system requirements and the exact reasons behind them. Since unveiling the new operating system in June,...




www.techspot.com


----------



## sostenuto (Oct 13, 2021)

chimuelo said:


> There’s already some ways around older Mobo/CPU lacking TPM requirements.
> Good news for those who fiddle around.
> Personally I won’t be fixing something that already works.
> 
> ...


THX for this ! (3) older Desktops with i5 quads and i7 _ ASUS MB(s). On Insider Preview, Win11 Pro, and all has been fine, _just constant notice that PC(s) do not quality_. 
regedit changes has no effect on these warnings. No clue what will happen at formal release. 
All cool now and hoping for smooth sailing. 🙆🏻‍♂️


----------



## chimuelo (Oct 13, 2021)

I keep getting messages on my Monitor while I’m offline at gigs that tell me my current hardware isn’t compatible with Windows 11. As if I’m asking?

Still not gigging with my recent AMD builds, I have a pair of i7 4790k’s which are both 2 years old since I bought enough parts for 4 back in 2015.

Just shows you what pimps Micro$oft are. These messages were put into my PC’s when I last updated in 2020.

While I’m not forced to keep updating it’s a fact that you really need to check in with Mommy at least every month with older boards and CPUs because if you don’t your CPUs starts using significant resources looking for the update folder trying to find necessary data. As long as it finds the folder it won’t continue swimming in a glass.

I really wish I could avoid these pimps and go with Linux.
So anytime I find ways around their data mining/pimping I share it.

I can’t imagine them leaving us alone anytime soon…


----------



## Kony (Oct 14, 2021)

chimuelo said:


> While I’m not forced to keep updating it’s a fact that you really need to check in with Mommy at least every month with older boards and CPUs because if you don’t your CPUs starts using significant resources looking for the update folder trying to find necessary data. As long as it finds the folder it won’t continue swimming in a glass.


I keep my DAW offline (mostly). It will do the Mommy search (not sure of the frequency - could be monthly) but stops after a while (maybe 20 minutes, if that). I'm okay with that as opposed to constant updates breaking things.


----------



## novaburst (Oct 14, 2021)

Microsoft and AMD to patch Ryzen bug on Windows 11 PCs next week


The updates should arrive a week or so.




www.gsmarena.com




I think Intel will also have an anvantage with windows 11 at least untill the bad performance behaviour with AMD and W11 is sorted out,

At the moment things are not looking good for AMD and windows 11


----------



## chimuelo (Oct 14, 2021)

novaburst said:


> Microsoft and AMD to patch Ryzen bug on Windows 11 PCs next week
> 
> 
> The updates should arrive a week or so.
> ...


No they’re not and AMD has other issues with 5000Gs like not telling customers to use a Matisse CPU to flash the BIOS on B550/X570 boards, then install the 5000 APUs.

But Windows 10 as is with 5000 series CPUs works great.
AMD seems to fix things quickly, but they really need to release their products after fixing issues on the next batch of chips.


----------



## novaburst (Oct 14, 2021)

chimuelo said:


> But Windows 10 as is with 5000 series CPUs works great.


Yes works like a dream on windows such a delight to use, 




chimuelo said:


> not telling customers to use a Matisse CPU to flash the BIOS on B550/X570 boards, then install the 5000 APUs.


Those this did not happen to me, I did a lot of research before I installed. But I guess some found out the hard way.

But the good thing was you did not need to change MB every time a new AMD came out.

Hope windows 11 and AMD can sort things out I think it might mean hanging onto windows 10 as long as I possibly can


----------



## chimuelo (Oct 14, 2021)

Zen Master says “we’ll see.”

I actually used the BMC controller on my ASRock Rack boards to update the BIOS w/o the double chip trick. Using consumer boards was a cheap way to find out comparability issues. 100 dollar boards wasn’t nearly as expensive as the 500 dollar 1U Workstation/Server models.

I ended up with a 3600X gaming rig I’m building for my kids Christmas gift.

But once again I’m faced with paying 1300 bucks for an NVidia GFX Card so Junior isn’t disappointed. I should’ve researched that too.

Live and Learn..


----------



## Tren (Oct 24, 2021)

chimuelo said:


> Zen Master says “we’ll see.”
> 
> I actually used the BMC controller on my ASRock Rack boards to update the BIOS w/o the double chip trick. Using consumer boards was a cheap way to find out comparability issues. 100 dollar boards wasn’t nearly as expensive as the 500 dollar 1U Workstation/Server models.
> 
> ...


Right now it’s cheaper to buy prebuilt systems than deal with the GPU markups.


----------



## chimuelo (Oct 24, 2021)

Tren said:


> Right now it’s cheaper to buy prebuilt systems than deal with the GPU markups.



Even cheaper building a decent gaming rig using a 5600G.

AMD & Micro$oft say they have the Windows 11 fix but I’m not touching it until I actually see a need.

AMDs strength is it’s IPC and cache. If it’s 6 times slower w/ Windows 11 it makes no sense to even try at this point.


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## Michael AD (Oct 25, 2021)

AMD has patched the Windows 11 problem. (And Microsoft has also released a patch for all Windows 11 users):








AMD Posts Official Fix for Windows 11 Bugs (Update: Microsoft Releases Patch, Too)


First patch arrives, second is inbound




www.tomshardware.com


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## Loerpert (Oct 25, 2021)

Anyone using FL Studio and AMD Ryzen who has updated?


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## Hendrixon (Oct 25, 2021)

Windows 11? now? no thanks lol
First of all I never touch a new M$ OS before service pack 1 or big updates have rolled out.. learned this the hard way
If clients really want a new shiny OS I tell them to wait for SP1.
My self, I built a new pc like half a year ago? it got my first new OS (win 10) since win 7.
Heck I'm typing this on my win 7 machine


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## spyder (Oct 30, 2021)

Seems wierd that my Intel Skylake i7 6700 Quad Core 4.0GHz processor is not supported by Windows 11. I guess I stay on 10, but from earlier in this thread if I want W11 it seems I can fiddle it somehow.


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## Loerpert (Oct 30, 2021)

3DC said:


> After initial setup problems, 4 hours of endless restarts and additional updates, clean up of Microsoft "meta" crap, scarry errors, ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update. Any additional info would be very much appreciated!


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## DJames (Nov 1, 2021)

I've upgraded my new MSI Creator Z16 laptop (11th gen i9, 64GB Ram, 2TB SSD Gen 4) to Windows 11 with no issues. It was fast, flawless, and easy. All my music apps work (Cubase 11 Pro, Kontakt 6, Sine Player, Spitfire, Engine, etc...) Nothing has crashed - not even once. Everything runs faster on this machine.


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## mussnig (Nov 2, 2021)

DJames said:


> I've upgraded my new MSI Creator Z16 laptop (11th gen i9, 64GB Ram, 2TB SSD Gen 4) to Windows 11 with no issues. It was fast, flawless, and easy. All my music apps work (Cubase 11 Pro, Kontakt 6, Sine Player, Spitfire, Engine, etc...) Nothing has crashed - not even once. Everything runs faster on this machine.


I was very, very interested in that laptop and considered buying it. How is the noise level?


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## TomislavEP (Nov 2, 2021)

From yesterday morning, there is a notification in Windows Update on my DAW system that Windows 11 is ready for download and installation. I was an early adopter of Windows 10 but I'll probably wait for a longer while this time. I imagine that all the hardware and software that I use should work on 11 without major problems, but my CPU is Ryzen 7 so I'm still a bit on the edge when it comes to performance. I've read about this issue before; not sure is it finally fixed.

In any case, I still don't see many reasons to be excited about Windows 11, especially when it comes to music production. Apart from the aesthetics and the fact that Windows 10 will eventually run out of support. But there is still plenty of time until then (at least, I hope so).


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## DJames (Nov 2, 2021)

mussnig said:


> I was very, very interested in that laptop and considered buying it. How is the noise levIt


I would say it's average, like any other laptop but definitely not loud or annoying. Then again, I don't do live recordings. BTW, the 2nd SSD drive slot is an amazing feature to have in such a slim laptop!


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## mussnig (Nov 2, 2021)

DJames said:


> I would say it's average, like any other laptop but definitely not loud or annoying. Then again, I don't do live recordings. BTW, the 2nd SSD drive slot is an amazing feature to have in such a slim laptop!


Thx for the reply! Do you have to flip the motherboard to install the 2nd SSD (because you do have to flip the motherboard to access RAM and primary SSD)?


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## DJames (Nov 2, 2021)

No, even though some guy on YouTube made a teardown video that says you have to flip the motherboard. The 2nd drive fits in through the side of the motherboard but you have to do it very carefully and on a very specific angle. I had it professionally done because I don't trust myself. Took him less than 5min to do.


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## mussnig (Nov 2, 2021)

DJames said:


> No, even though some guy on YouTube made a teardown video that says you have to flip the motherboard. The 2nd drive fits in through the side of the motherboard but you have to do it very carefully and on a very specific angle. I had it professionally done because I don't trust myself. Took him less than 5min to do.


Good to know - thank you!


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## Tren (Nov 5, 2021)

chimuelo said:


> Even cheaper building a decent gaming rig using a 5600G.
> 
> AMD & Micro$oft say they have the Windows 11 fix but I’m not touching it until I actually see a need.
> 
> AMDs strength is it’s IPC and cache. If it’s 6 times slower w/ Windows 11 it makes no sense to even try at this point.


A 5000G isn't going to run the games I play @ 240Hz, and that's basically the bar for entry with me, at this point.

I need an actual upper-mid range dGPU.

Something at least as good as a 3070 Ti or 6800 XT, since I already have a 5700 XT (roughly comparable to a 2070 SUPER) in my desktop and 2060 MQ in my Laptop (only 120Hz display, but this can run 144 with ease... I have multiple spare 144Hz monitors sitting around :-P ).

Anything worse than a 3070 or 6800 XT is just not worth caring about. No iGPU is going to compare to what I already have. I am not CPU limited.

I will gain almost nothing upgrading off of the R7 3700X that I'm already using. The CPU is not the bottleneck with the games I play, or even close to it.

The cheapest way to get a decent GPU is to buy a pre-built desktop, with the worst CPU/RAM/SSD possible (to keep costs down), but the GPU I want, and then swap the GPU with what I currently have and resell the system to someone else to recoup money and hopefully not pay significantly more than the MSRP of the GPU I obtained doing this.

I upgraded to Windows 11 after they released the patches (AMD and Microsoft, both) for Ryzen CPUs/Driver updates and it's been fine.

The only thing I hate is that they removed the clock from my secondary display taskbar. I never realized how often I looked there for the time when I was running something fullscreen... until it was gone.


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## Loerpert (Nov 6, 2021)

Upgraded to Windows 11 as well. No major issues detected. Working with FL Studio. I've got a Ryzen 3950X


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## PaulieDC (Nov 12, 2021)

I knew the CPU compatibility target was going to move around... initially you needed I think an 8th or 9th Gen CPU as per Microsoft. I have an i9-7940X and i do see the "NOT COMPATIBLE" banner in the Updates section of Win10. For fun I ran the Windows Compatibility Checker... turns out my 7th Gen IS now compatible, and the only two reasons my rig was failing are fixable in the BIOS (I think):






Don't ask me, I just work...er...um... write long boring posts here.


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## Øivind (Dec 2, 2021)

Seems there are general performance improvements for audio on Windows 11, for both AMD and Intel. DDR5 is also giving a big boost for polyphony count.



https://www.scan.co.uk/info/proaudio/presszone/intel-12th-gen-roundup


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## Loerpert (Dec 2, 2021)

I've been on Windows 11 for a while now. Have had no issues. It seems I can load up more instruments than on Windows 10. Projects that would start to pop and crack on W10 run easily now. :D


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## Aitcpiano (Dec 2, 2021)

I've updated to Windows 11 on my small portable but not my main computer. But on my laptop i've had no issues and it seems to run nicely. I've not however, been doing anything particularly taxing on the on the laptop and I have pretty much decided that at the moment their is no point in updating my main computer until I'm sure Windows 11 is completely stable.


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## muziksculp (Jan 18, 2022)

Hi, 

Q. So, how many more years do you think Windows 10 will still be the standard/mainstream Operating System, before I will have to upgrade my machine/s to be Windows 11 compliant, and use Windows 11 for music production ? 

Just curious, since none of my current PCs is Windows 11 compliant. So, I have to bite the bullet when Windows 11 is more of the standard of the industry OS. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Alchemedia (Jan 18, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Q. So, how many more years do you think Windows 10 will still be the standard/mainstream Operating System, before I will have to upgrade my machine/s to be Windows 11 compliant, and use Windows 11 for music production ?
> 
> ...


Microsoft will pull active support for Windows 10 in 2025. You'll still be able to use the software, but you won't get any more security updates. There also won't be any new features added to the software.


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## muziksculp (Jan 18, 2022)

Alchemedia said:


> Microsoft will pull active support for Windows 10 in 2025. You'll still be able to use the software, but you won't get any more security updates. There also won't be any new features added to the software.


Thanks. 

So, I'm guessing this mean that by let's say by mid-2024 Windows 11 will be pretty much the mainstream, standard Windows OS. I have another two and a half years to work with my current PCs, and Windows 10. Does this sound reasonably realistic ?


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## Alchemedia (Jan 18, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So, I'm guessing this mean that by let's say by mid-2024 Windows 11 will be pretty much the mainstream, standard Windows OS. I have another two and a half years to work with my current PCs, and Windows 10. Does this sound reasonably realistic ?


Yes.


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## muziksculp (Jan 18, 2022)

Alchemedia said:


> Yes.


THANKS


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## Alchemedia (Jan 18, 2022)

Btw, that's exactly what I plan to do. 


muziksculp said:


> THANKS


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## cqd (Jan 18, 2022)

I for one am looking forward to no more updates for windows 10..


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## muziksculp (Jan 18, 2022)

cqd said:


> I for one am looking forward to no more updates for windows 10..


Yeah... It's a good thing not to bother with updates. But System security might be an issue. 

I stopped getting any more updates for Windows 10 already. So, it's been a stable system so far. Hopefully it stays like this until mid-2024.


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## Hadrondrift (Jan 19, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> So, I have to bite the bullet when Windows 11 is more of the standard of the industry OS.


About biting the bullet: I would have to throw away four fully functional PCs and three laptops, which I will not do. These will certainly still be working in two or three years.

Allow a short rant: Personally, I think Windows 11 with the associated hardware requirements is a deliberate move by Microsoft to set conditions in the market that demand new purchases. That's why they decided to release Windows 11, even though they said Windows 10 would be the last Windows. It is legally difficult to attach very new conditions to an old brand/market name.

The primary reason for mandatory TPM is not user security, but the ability to uniquely identify end user devices. This is needed for machine-based payment, DRM and - especially - cloud services, a market focus for Microsoft (Azure). The requirement for a processor greater generation 7 is an almost arbitrary restriction and only serves the purpose of generating new hardware purchases (preferably Microsoft Surface...).

Enough whining. There are legal methods to install Windows 11 even on systems without TPM 2.0 and with older processors. You don't have to enter dark areas of the internet to get them and you don't make yourself an unethical hacker applying them. Oddly enough, such Win11 installations on unsupported devices run completely smoothly.

In any case, I suppose things will look different in three years. I'll remain relaxed until then. And am very happy to see that Windows 10 is already not going to receive any new major updates. What a relief.


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