# Considering a new laptop (summertime, and the computing is heating)



## automated hero (Jun 16, 2022)

As summer kicks in, my laptop huffs and puffs. I always stress a bit when the core temps reach around 80 degrees as they have the last couple of days. That plus I'm paranoid and technophobic :D (and not desperately flush with £££).

So I've been looking at a couple of laptops for sale online, refurbished. Wondering if anyone knows anything about either of these and would be willing to comment:

https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/ref...-8gb-256gb-14-inch-wind-tr-47-200/version.asp



https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/refurbished-hp-probook-640-g1-core-i5-4210m-8gb-500gb-14-inch-windows-10-la-tr-104-206/version.asp



Currently I have a sony vaoio laptop from many moons ago. 8gb and i5 3210m. Other than getting all hot and bothered, it does the job really well for making music.

Thanks


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## gzapper (Jun 16, 2022)

M1 and M2's are the laptops that generate the least amount of heat.
Just saying.


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## automated hero (Jun 16, 2022)

gzapper said:


> M1 and M2's are the laptops that generate the least amount of heat.
> Just saying.


could you be e bit more specific? Who makes an M1/2? Thanks


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## doctoremmet (Jun 16, 2022)

M1 and M2 are the new proprietary “ARM based” CPUs that are now in Apple Mac hardware, including their latests Macbook laptops. They are highly power efficient and have a modern and fast chip architecture.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 16, 2022)

But since you seem to have an eye on Windows computers, it may be wise to check whether the hardware in any new / refurbished laptop is “new enough” to qualify for a Windows 11 update. This is Microsoft’s latest operating system, and where in the past they’d let you upgrade to any new OS -regardless of hardware specs- for this one there are specific hardware requirements. Windows 10 will lose its official support status some time in 2025, off the top of my head. This may eventually impact your computer’s ability to run (new or updated) music software.

TL;DR This time around it may be wise to futureproof your Windows laptop investment slightly more consciously than in previous years.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 16, 2022)

Best Windows 11-ready laptops 2022


Shopping around for a new PC and want to be sure it can run Microsoft's latest OS? Take a look at the best laptops out there that are ready for Windows 11.




www.windowscentral.com


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## automated hero (Jun 16, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Best Windows 11-ready laptops 2022
> 
> 
> Shopping around for a new PC and want to be sure it can run Microsoft's latest OS? Take a look at the best laptops out there that are ready for Windows 11.
> ...


i mentioned the machines above because they are what I can afford. The ones in that list are way too much for me.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 16, 2022)

automated hero said:


> i mentioned the machines above because they are what I can afford. The ones in that list are way too much for me.


I completely understand. I figured linking to this website could still be beneficial to you, given my Windows 11 considerations. Anyway, best of luck to you. Sorry for interfering.


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## automated hero (Jun 16, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I completely understand. I figured linking to this website could still be beneficial to you, given my Windows 11 considerations. Anyway, best of luck to you. Sorry for interfering.


No problem


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## Loerpert (Jun 16, 2022)

If you are a little serious about your music, then these laptops won't do, but if you are a hobbyist using mostly synths and small projects, then it'll be fine.


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## automated hero (Jun 17, 2022)

Loerpert said:


> If you are a little serious about your music, then these laptops won't do, but if you are a hobbyist using mostly synths and small projects, then it'll be fine.


Why?


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## tressie5 (Jun 17, 2022)

As a synth guy, I don't really need terabytes of SSD space and a uber CPU to stream sampled content because I don't rely on them. And technically, I could even lessen my load more if I abandoned Cubase and Studio One for Reaper. I'm using a lowly Ryzen 5 2500u laptop with a 500GB SSD and have produced a lot of synth tracks with it, but if I was to try to create a 100 track orchestral piece, my laptop will blow up.


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## automated hero (Jun 17, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> As a synth guy, I don't really need terabytes of SSD space and a uber CPU to stream sampled content because I don't rely on them. And technically, I could even lessen my load more if I abandoned Cubase and Studio One for Reaper. I'm using a lowly Ryzen 5 2500u laptop with a 500GB SSD and have produced a lot of synth tracks with it, but if I was to try to create a 100 track orchestral piece, my laptop will blow up.


You could just render them, that's what i do, using reaper.

I don't know how lowly that machine is, btu we work with what we have


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## el-bo (Jun 17, 2022)

automated hero said:


> You could just render them, that's what i do, using reaper.
> 
> I don't know how lowly that machine is, btu we work with what we have


Yeah! As long as a computer is powerful enough to record one track, it's powerful enough to record thousands. Just need to leverage bouncing/rendering and/or track-freezing.

It's different, of course, if one is a professional composer working to strict deadlines. But in such a case, it presumes having a bit more money to incest in more powerful tools.

My current Macbook Pro is 10 years old. There's nothing I want to do on it that i can't handle (with the aforementioned freezing). Were it not for the hardware issues, I'd still have no impetus to change it


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## automated hero (Jun 17, 2022)

Apropo of...whatever. My laptop is currently upwards of 80 degrees C. Today is a damn hot dayh and I really don't want this old machine dying in the heat! 

My computer also! :D


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## easyrider (Jun 17, 2022)

automated hero said:


> i mentioned the machines above because they are what I can afford. The ones in that list are way too much for me.


Budget?


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## Loerpert (Jun 17, 2022)

automated hero said:


> Why?


Their specs aren't too good. The cpu's are quite old and 8gb ram will allow you to use a few VI's at max. I don't know what kind of music you make and what type of tools you use? That will make it easier to give more concrete advice!


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## automated hero (Jun 17, 2022)

easyrider said:


> Budget?


I think beyond £250 would be a real stretch


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## automated hero (Jun 17, 2022)

Loerpert said:


> Their specs aren't too good. The cpu's are quite old and 8gb ram will allow you to use a few VI's at max. I don't know what kind of music you make and what type of tools you use? That will make it easier to give more concrete advice!


I have a sony vaio laptop 95 3210m with 8gb RAM. I run Reaper and use mainly Repro and some Arturia stuff as well as Synapse' Legend and Obsession. Plus a few Cherry Audio bits (which do end up heavy cpu load). I freeze tracks when I need to and seem to do ok, which is why I listed those two machines above. Obviously a better machine would be ideal, but I can't afford anything mega flash.

So I do ok making cool quirky electronica (@ automated hero on bandcamp :D)


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## confusedsheep (Jun 17, 2022)

just wanted to chime in...

in terms of noise and heat... i use two laptops regularly (i ruined a couple of others during breakfast, but that is a story for another time)... an i7 razer thing which looks cool, very nice chasis (sleek, slim and very pro looking) and performs really well... but is really loud and REALLY HOT... i mean like seriously hot. the good news is that it doesn´t throttle down it just keeps going. but the noise and heat is irritating. and even with undervolting and all kind of black magic crap thrown at it ... it is still kinda noisy.

and then i have a very playful looking (i love blinking lights... i spent too many years with boring bauhaus / braun industrial design inspired stuff to care anymore...give me hundertwasser inspired designs instead) asus thingie with an 5900hx. and apart from looking like something that just escaped from a drunk amusement park it is amazing. it is - for music / and daily use (web & office etc.) - mostly silent; of course it can be loud as well but that is not happening with kontakt and daw use. current gen videogames might be different - ventilator noise wise...

so i would take a hard look at amd for laptops (well you already excluded apple...otherwise these m1 things are probably quite well suited...albeit looking somewhat bland  ) and as much as every one loves the most portable and sleek designs... at least in terms of ventilation and thermal throttling sometimes size (chasis) does matter.


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## confusedsheep (Jun 17, 2022)

automated hero said:


> I have a sony vaio laptop 95 3210m with 8gb RAM. I run Reaper and use mainly Repro and some Arturia stuff as well as Synapse' Legend and Obsession. Plus a few Cherry Audio bits (which do end up heavy cpu load). I freeze tracks when I need to and seem to do ok, which is why I listed those two machines above. Obviously a better machine would be ideal, but I can't afford anything mega flash.
> 
> So I do ok making cool quirky electronica (@ automated hero on bandcamp :D)


nice music! if i am not completely mistaken you are more into classical synth sounds instead of multi gb sample libraries or audio mangling ala ableton etc. why not change the software instead of the latop? if you purchase a 2nd hand copy of reason 4 for instance you would be able to create most of those classic synth sounds and your i5 based machine would run rings around it without breaking a sweat.


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## automated hero (Jun 17, 2022)

My problem is that I'm not a computer expert. It may be that the device I have works fine even though its showing high temperatures. I have been told before that they are built to run hot, but my gut feeling has always been that it. An be good in the long term. Ive no idea though and I not about to open it up and check for obvious signs of wear. The thermal page may be weak or it may not be, for example, but I'm not in a potion to ree ace it. This has been a great machine for means I just antsy that thanks to the heatwave we are having it might wear out, but thas just a feeling and not a technical opinion.


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## el-bo (Jun 17, 2022)

automated hero said:


> My problem is that I'm not a computer expert. It may be that the device I have works fine even though its showing high temperatures. I have been told before that they are built to run hot, but my gut feeling has always been that it. An be good in the long term. Ive no idea though and I not about to open it up and check for obvious signs of wear. The thermal page may be weak or it may not be, for example, but I'm not in a potion to ree ace it. This has been a great machine for means I just antsy that thanks to the heatwave we are having it might wear out, but thas just a feeling and not a technical opinion.


They are built to withstand running hot. They'll shut-down if temps are in danger of exceeding their limits.

Depending on how long you've had it, it might just need a good servicing. You might find that all it needs is for the fans and vents to be cleared of dust etc. and for reapplication of thermal-paste. Also, in general day-to-day use you might fin ramping up the fan speed works to keep thinks within range.

80 degrees isn't crazy hot for a computer


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## confusedsheep (Jun 17, 2022)

el-bo said:


> They are built to withstand running hot. They'll shut-down if temps are in danger of exceeding their limits.
> 
> Depending on how long you've had it, it might just need a good servicing. You might find that all it needs is for the fans and vents to be cleared of dust etc. and for reapplication of thermal-paste. Also, in general day-to-day use you might fin ramping up the fan speed works to keep thinks within range.
> 
> 80 degrees isn't crazy hot for a computer


yop... there is prolly a mom&dad laptop shop in your town, they take care of the cleaning and repasting (which would be needed after many moons) and maybe upgrading (ssd e.g.).


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## automated hero (Jun 17, 2022)

confusedsheep said:


> nice music! if i am not completely mistaken you are more into classical synth sounds instead of multi gb sample libraries or audio mangling ala ableton etc. why not change the software instead of the latop? if you purchase a 2nd hand copy of reason 4 for instance you would be able to create most of those classic synth sounds and your i5 based machine would run rings around it without breaking a sweat.


I'm unfaimiliar with Reason, but that's not the latest version. I like using the emulations I have, they sound great and let me think I'm using the real thing, which I'd never own anyway. :D

My laptop doesn' struggle to run them, it's just (afaict) the weather over the last couple of days has been very hot and stuffy.

Thanks for the compliment. I very much do like those classic tones. Thanks for listening



confusedsheep said:


> yop... there is prolly a mom&dad laptop shop in your town, they take care of the cleaning and repasting (which would be needed after many moons) and maybe upgrading (ssd e.g.).


Perhaps I will look into it, although my experience of such places is that they are run by people who know they have a specialised knowledge and do like the power that gives them, if you know what I mean. They are often very slow and there's always a queue to get work done which means potentially being without a computer for a good while.


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## confusedsheep (Jun 17, 2022)

automated hero said:


> I'm unfaimiliar with Reason, but that's not the latest version. I like using the emulations I have, they sound great and let me think I'm using the real thing, which I'd never own anyway. :D
> 
> My laptop doesn' struggle to run them, it's just (afaict) the weather over the last couple of days has been very hot and stuffy.
> 
> ...


i mentioned reason 4 (which is ancient btw, but the first version which included the thor synth - which in term does quite accetable "analog" type sounds and some very nice wavetablish ppg timbres aswell ...not to mention weird phase distortion stuff and a bit of fm) because it will probably cover most synth sounds and isn´t taxing for your laptop - so heat and noise won´t be much of a problem (it should even perform quite well on some kind of eco windows power plan setting) - whereas more "current" audio plugins (and more recent reason versions) tend to grab more resources.

but then again if your laptop does not struggle too much with your current software setup maybe a cooling pad would be helpful?


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## automated hero (Jun 17, 2022)

confusedsheep said:


> i mentioned reason 4 (which is ancient btw, but the first version which included the thor synth - which in term does quite accetable "analog" type sounds and some very nice wavetablish ppg timbres aswell ...not to mention weird phase distortion stuff and a bit of fm) because it will probably cover most synth sounds and isn´t taxing for your laptop - so heat and noise won´t be much of a problem (it should even perform quite well on some kind of eco windows power plan setting) - whereas more "current" audio plugins (and more recent reason versions) tend to grab more resources.
> 
> but then again if your laptop does not struggle too much with your current software setup maybe a cooling pad would be helpful?


Thanks, but I would prefer to stick with the software I'm using as I think the sounds are exceptional. Repro is very good. 

I have tried a coooling pad in the past. Now perhaps I bought the wrong one, but it really didn't seem to make any difference. Perhaps there are good models out there but I don't see how they can really have much effect on the heat within the laptop. You'd have to have something harnessing an arctic blast!


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## thevisi0nary (Jun 19, 2022)

automated hero said:


> I think beyond £250 would be a real stretch


That is an extremely unrealistic order as far as getting a machine with any type of specific need. Machine costs don’t just come from the components but things like the cooling system as well, which is primarily what you’re concerned with.

You’re best bet is browsing the used market and referencing the listings you see with reviews on those machines. If cooling is the only thing you care about, then ironically getting something with less powerful components can sometimes alleviate the need for it to dissipate heat. 

On the flip side, if you’re pushing your current machine to it’s max because the hardware is underpowered for your needs, then you’re also pushing the laptop as a whole to the limits of what it’s able to cool comfortably. Newer hardware doesn’t just more powerful but gets more power efficient and thermally efficient for doing the same amount of work.

Look up the price point of your current machine on the used market, if it’s in the same range as the budget you’re currently looking to stay in, you’re likely just going to switch to another laptop that gives you the same problems.

You could try other things to mitigate this as well like cleaning the fan if it’s dusty.


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## LA68 (Jun 19, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> But since you seem to have an eye on Windows computers, it may be wise to check whether the hardware in any new / refurbished laptop is “new enough” to qualify for a Windows 11 update. This is Microsoft’s latest operating system, and where in the past they’d let you upgrade to any new OS -regardless of hardware specs- for this one there are specific hardware requirements. Windows 10 will lose its official support status some time in 2025, off the top of my head. This may eventually impact your computer’s ability to run (new or updated) music software.
> 
> TL;DR This time around it may be wise to futureproof your Windows laptop investment slightly more consciously than in previous years.


Is it that much of an issue though? The way I understood is that nothing changes about the possibility to use drivers from previous Windows versions like you can do with Windows 10.


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## automated hero (Jun 19, 2022)

thevisi0nary said:


> That is an extremely unrealistic order as far as getting a machine with any type of specific need. Machine costs don’t just come from the components but things like the cooling system as well, which is primarily what you’re concerned with.
> 
> You’re best bet is browsing the used market and referencing the listings you see with reviews on those machines. If cooling is the only thing you care about, then ironically getting something with less powerful components can sometimes alleviate the need for it to dissipate heat.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying the machine is being pushed to its limits. But i've had it since about 2014 and we don't build much these days that lasts forever :D

I do clean the vents with compressed air. But i'm not taking it apart because I've no idea what i'm doing there.

The price I quoted is what I paid for this machine. It (seems to) work just fine, but the hot weather tests the components. I don't know if that presents an actual problem or just an imagined problem. Under normal circumstances heat averages around 70 degrees. If that's excessive, I do not know. It have never had any problems otherwise (that I know of) and it's never shut down due to heat.

Sure I'd like to get an all singing all dancing machine, but I work with what I can afford and those laptops I listed where refurbished and not brand new. That budget would be intended for such a purchase because there's no way I can afford something new. I'm not going to give up making music just because I can't afford the latest hardware and if that means i have to freeze files/pour ice on the computer or find workarounds or set my desk on fire then so be it :D


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## automated hero (Jun 19, 2022)

LA68 said:


> Is it that much of an issue though? The way I understood is that nothing changes about the possibility to use drivers from previous Windows versions like you can do with Windows 10.


Windows is a POS but I'll continue using it because I'm familiar with it and have software for it. It's a price I'm willing to pay. 

Windows 10, though, is a nightmare


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## LA68 (Jun 19, 2022)

automated hero said:


> Windows is a POS but I'll continue using it because I'm familiar with it and have software for it. It's a price I'm willing to pay.
> 
> Windows 10, though, is a nightmare


Idk, I really, really like Windows 10. For me Win has been great in general post 98/ME anyway.

I'm not sure if I'd agree on the "extremely unrealistic" thing that the other commenter said, but increasing the budget a little would certainly help.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 19, 2022)

LA68 said:


> Is it that much of an issue though? The way I understood is that nothing changes about the possibility to use drivers from previous Windows versions like you can do with Windows 10.


It depends. In terms of drivers it likely won’t. But there may be two different issues:

1. Music software may eventually be updated to Win11-only versions, meaning at some point you may be stuck at whatever the last Win10 version is.

2. Win10 at some point won’t receive security patches, which for me would be an unacceptable risk.

But these things may not be an issue for you and may also not manifest themselves for years to come.

I originally mentioned Win11 as a service to you see, not to dissuade you in any way from buying a current gen or last gen CPU Win10 only laptop.


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## lux (Jun 19, 2022)

about ten years and I'm using laptops only. It changed my life and personal mood for the better. No probs, no time spent installing computer parts or fighting with issues. I only had heating issues with my old HP i7 but then everything was good enough. Have to say though that my studio has a natural cooling condition which makes it fresh even in hot summer.

Windows 7 then 10 since a few years, they are great OS

From what I read here I should then accept I'm not serious enough about my work.


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## automated hero (Jun 19, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> It depends. In terms of drivers it likely won’t. But there may be two different issues:
> 
> 1. Music software may eventually be updated to Win11-only versions, meaning at some point you may be stuck at whatever the last Win10 version is.
> 
> ...


I guess the only option is to wait until something affordable appears. I'm not an expert in the tech specs but it doesn't need to be hugely better than what I have and so a refurbished machine is ideal


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## automated hero (Jun 19, 2022)

If anyone wants to suggest a model then feel free, but I still don't know what an m1 is (other than the famous synth)


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## thevisi0nary (Jun 19, 2022)

automated hero said:


> I'm not going to give up making music just because I can't afford the latest hardware and if that means i have to freeze files/pour ice on the computer or find workarounds or set my desk on fire then so be it :D


100% it’s a great attitude to have, best to use what you have rather than make no music at all. 

Let me rephrase my last post to put it in better context. You’re question is sort of like asking “Hey guys, my older car runs fine but it’s not great on gas, what car can I get with better gas mileage for under $1000?”. Even in the best case scenario you come across some super excellent deal, you’d have to make sure your new machine wasn’t the same or worse quality than the one you’re currently using, which is what you’d likely find within that budget. $260 is super thin for a music computer.

If I were you, and was completely fine with the laptop I already have minus the thermals, I would keep using it until I was in a position where I could justify getting a true upgrade. It will make a HUGE difference vs getting another laptop that is very cheap and likely very old. Unless you come across some deal that is highly advantageous, it’s not worth it to spend money for a sidegrade or downgrade if what you have isn’t broken.


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## thevisi0nary (Jun 19, 2022)

automated hero said:


> If anyone wants to suggest a model then feel free, but I still don't know what an m1 is (other than the famous synth)


Something like this could be a good upgrade if you can stretch the budget - https://www.ebay.com/itm/325196257682?epid=28034633899&hash=item4bb7351992:g:DE4AAOSw6Ctihpwk


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## automated hero (Jun 19, 2022)

thevisi0nary said:


> 100% it’s a great attitude to have, best to use what you have rather than make no music at all.
> 
> Let me rephrase my last post to put it in better context. You’re question is sort of like asking “Hey guys, my older car runs fine but it’s not great on gas, what car can I get with better gas mileage for under $1000?”. Even in the best case scenario you come across some super excellent deal, you’d have to make sure your new machine wasn’t the same or worse quality than the one you’re currently using, which is what you’d likely find within that budget. $260 is super thin for a music computer.
> 
> If I were you, and was completely fine with the laptop I already have minus the thermals, I would keep using it until I was in a position where I could justify getting a true upgrade. It will make a HUGE difference vs getting another laptop that is very cheap and likely very old. Unless you come across some deal that is highly advantageous, it’s not worth it to spend money for a sidegrade or downgrade if what you have isn’t broken.


Thanks.

I am more than happy to continue using what I have. I'm just increasingly paranoid that it will give out. It's served me superbly but sooner or later it's going to head to that great CPU graveyard in the sky. That's how it seems to me, but again I don't understand computers well enough to know for sure.


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## mrandall (Jun 23, 2022)

As someone who has owned and used three or four computers at a time for the last few decades, my advice is use what you have if it's working okay for you now. Generally speaking, computers tend to get better and cheaper over time. The more useful life you can extract from one that's already working, the better.

When I upgrade a music-making PC the worst part isn't the cost, it's all the time I have to spend getting all the applications, plugins and libraries installed, registered, updated, tested and performance tuned.


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## automated hero (Jun 24, 2022)

mrandall said:


> As someone who has owned and used three or four computers at a time for the last few decades, my advice is use what you have if it's working okay for you now. Generally speaking, computers tend to get better and cheaper over time. The more useful life you can extract from one that's already working, the better.
> 
> When I upgrade a music-making PC the worst part isn't the cost, it's all the time I have to spend getting all the applications, plugins and libraries installed, registered, updated, tested and performance tuned.


Yes there is that, but it can't be helped. 

My laptop works now, for sure. But I can't help feeling it's getting old. I've had it since about 2014 and it was refurbished then. I think it's a 2012 model and these things are never built to last anymore. So I can't help feeling better be prepared rather than wait for the inevitable


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