# Feedback on orchestral composition and mix [UPDATED]



## Mike Marino (Nov 14, 2014)

Hi there,

Looking for some compositional and mix feedback on my orchestral piece. I posted it up a while back and have kept working on it from time to time as a WIP.

Thanks in advance for listening and passing along your comments, criticisms, and feedback.

UPDATED TRACK: https://app.box.com/s/akoif8lddjsi8lvl72jh

https://app.box.com/s/swfvfi1j9fjwcptg66l2

- Mike


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## germancomponist (Nov 14, 2014)

*Re: Feedback on orchestral composition and mix*

At the transitions, such as, for example, at 0:19, I would file it out even more. Otherwise: A very beautiful composition!

Nice!


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## Allen Constantine (Nov 14, 2014)

*Good job*

Nice reference to JW's E.T. :D Very good orchestration. Haven't heard in a while "this" specific spirit on this forum. 1 thing- the cymbals occasionally don't blend with the rest due not only of the high frequencies but by volume rising. Anyway, loved it


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## Graham Keitch (Nov 14, 2014)

*Re: Feedback on orchestral composition and mix*

Enjoyed this.

I have to agree the cymbals don't really blend - and they are over used. Chimes would work better in some places such as at 1:42. A short drum roll without a cymbal crash at the end of it is also a good substitute and adds variety and expectation. 

I would be embarrassed to admit how many times I've had to go through my projects deleting cymbal crashes /\~O but it generally isn't a bad thing. Save them for the real climax of the piece.

Great to hear you've made good use of other percussive toys - these are often overlooked, especially the triangle.

Great work Mike.


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## Stephen Rees (Nov 14, 2014)

*Re: Feedback on orchestral composition and mix*

I don't have any comments to offer on the mix (I don't worry too much about that kind of thing), but the composition itself is full of warmth and beauty and I liked it very much.


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## marclawsonmusic (Nov 14, 2014)

*Re: Feedback on orchestral composition and mix*

Lovely work all around, Mike! I really liked the woodwinds throughout the piece and the solo strings around 2:19 sounded great. The subtle choirs at the end added a nice touch as well.

Excellent orchestration too! A great tune, man. I am a fan.


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## Mike Marino (Nov 15, 2014)

Thank you all for your comments and criticisms. Collectively the cymbals are an issue and over-used....to which I would agree. When I get a chance I'll re-think their usage and mix qualities.

Thanks!

Mike


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## AC986 (Nov 15, 2014)

*Re: Feedback on orchestral composition and mix*

I think it's a nice Christmassy type of track with that JW influence from ye olde days of JW lore.

When you do fairly melodic detailed tracks, I think it gets difficult with samples, because there are moments when it sounds just right and then you get moments when for instance, the cymbals are not quite right, or as Gunther pointed out, 0.19 could have a cresc starting point much lower. 

Very nice track and well worth listening to and commenting on.


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## Mike Marino (Nov 15, 2014)

Thanks for your feedback, Adrian.


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## SaintDufus (Nov 16, 2014)

*Re: Feedback on orchestral composition and mix*

Beautiful! In much of this piece you've captured what I call "the magic"--that peculiar breathtaking feeling to Hollywood fantasy film music, which only a relative handful of orchestral masters can effectively call forth.

As another poster mentioned, there is an admirable depth and variety to this piece, which speaks to your skill with orchestration. (If there's one thing I appreciate, it's good orchestration!)

Here and there in the piece there may be room for improvement, but overall this is one of the more skillfully composed amateur compositions I've heard lately. Well done!

How exactly did you do it? What programs, libraries, etc. do you use? What's your process?


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## Mike Marino (Nov 16, 2014)

Thanks for your kind words and feedback, SaintDufus.

In terms of libraries used:
WW - EWQLSO; 8Dio Claire Flute/8Dioboe; Embertone Jubal Flute

Brass - EWQLSO; Embertone Chapman Trumpet

Perc - EWQLSO

Piano - 8Dio 1928 Steinway
Harp - EWQLSO

Strings - 8Dio Adagio (all sections)

Omnisphere somewhere in there as well (helping to lift a little low end at points). Reverb is EW Spaces. Ozone 5 on the master.


I had the melody stuck in my head one day and I attempted to put into practice many of the things I've learned from Mike Verta's classes. He critiqued the piece (along with many others) during the Unleashed E02 class....and lets just say there were some issues with the piece that I had to go back and fix (in terms of some of the original chord tones). So since then it's just been a WIP piece.....and I'll go back and apply some of the feedback in this thread as well.

There are certainly a few segments of the piece where my Adagio programming has come up a little short, so I might throw Adagietto in there instead and see if that's a smoother/better blend for what I'm able to do....etc.

I'd like to get it to a point where I'm a little more happy with the piece and put it on paper. I think that would allow everyone to dig further into the music as well. I have some deadlines that I need to hit currently, but perhaps after that.....

Thanks,
Mike


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## Mike Marino (Nov 17, 2014)

*Re: Feedback on orchestral composition and mix*

Hi guys,

Here's an updated track as I've been working on many of the suggestions above in terms of filing out some of the lower dynamics a bit during transitions, blending the cymbals more (and lessening their use through other percussive colors), ironing out a few programming spots. and some minor voicing and articulation changes.

I posted the link in the OP, but I'll place it here as well.

https://app.box.com/s/akoif8lddjsi8lvl72jh

Thanks to everyone!

- Mike


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## R.Cato (Nov 17, 2014)

Very nice track Mike. Some good orchestration and ideas. I haven't heard the previous version, but I think the cymbals still don't blend in that great.


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## Mike Marino (Nov 17, 2014)

@R.Cato: Thank you. Is the cymbal blend still a volume problem or is it more of a frequency issue?

This seems like a good learning point for me.


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## R.Cato (Nov 17, 2014)

Mike Marino @ Mon Nov 17 said:


> @R.Cato: Thank you. Is the cymbal blend still a volume problem or is it more of a frequency issue?
> 
> This seems like a good learning point for me.



It's more a frequency issue. But you can ignore that. I just don't like the way the cymbals sound in EW SO besides that the orch percussion is still great. So I think it's just me.


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## Mike Marino (Nov 17, 2014)

I understand. Thanks for your honesty and feedback.

- Mike


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## SaintDufus (Nov 18, 2014)

Mike Marino @ Sun Nov 16 said:


> I'd like to get it to a point where I'm a little more happy with the piece and put it on paper.



You mean "put it on paper" in musical notation?

I, for one, would appreciate that--I'd love to study one or two things you did--but didn't you create this with a MIDI-controller and a DAW?

Or did you use a notation program?

P.S. The newer version sounds great.


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## Mike Marino (Nov 19, 2014)

@SaintDufus: Thank you. For this piece, I put it straight into my DAW from my brain. In the beginning I used Mike Verta's idea for "art sketching" as I wrote.....so, no, it's not currently notated anywhere (other than sloppily in the Logic score editor).

So when I say "put it on paper," I just mean to put it into Sibelius and look at it from that perspective. I also recently downloaded a free plug-in for Sibelius that allows me to color anything on my score any color.....so it'll allow me to keep the idea of the "art sketch" along with the actual score.

I have a feeling it will dictate a few more changes in my piece so probably sooner rather than later on this.

- Mike


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## SamGarnerStudios (Nov 26, 2014)

Hey Mike, loving it. Reminds me of the intro scene to Ted.


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## SaintDufus (Nov 26, 2014)

Mike Marino @ Wed Nov 19 said:


> So when I say "put it on paper," I just mean to put it into Sibelius and look at it from that perspective.


Does Sibelius convert it into musical notation?


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## jneebz (Nov 26, 2014)

Really nice Mike, congrats. It's really cool for me to hear theme development...I suck at that 

I know there have been a couple comments on the cymbal swell, but to my ears there are two main tweaks I would make to that...cutting some high mids (there's something harsh there...maybe 4-5kHz?...I would sweep +12dB with a narrow Q and find that harsh spot and then cut it 2-3dB). Second, the swell doesn't seem to be "located" well in the mix, as I hear it sort of explode out of both speakers with quite a bit of width. I think pushing it back and giving it a spot in the "room" through volume or room placement plugin would help blend it in. Do you have close mics on for the cymbal? If so, try backing off those a bit too.

Just initial thoughts, FWIW. Great work! o-[][]-o 

-Jamie


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## Mike Marino (Nov 26, 2014)

Thanks Sam!

@Saintdufus: I'll physically input the score into Sibelius by entering all of tbe notes and durations myself. It's good practice for me.

@jneebz: Thank you! Exactly what I needed to know in terms of helping me fix the cymbal issue. I'll double-check my EQ settings and definitely loom at narrowing the stereo field. Thanks!


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