# Choir library nice, easy and cheap?



## emilio_n (Nov 26, 2019)

I want to add a choir library to my very basic collection. I don't have any choirs right now so I am in the starting point. 
I spend most of my budget for BF already so I am looking for something not crazy expensive but useful. I prefer to don't by anything and wait until I have some budget than buy crap that I will not use.

I checked a lot of thread here but for instance, Dominus Pro looks incredible but absolutely out of my budget. I think Genesis looks incredible but only kids choir but if my option now as looks amazing and now is only 199$. I can start with kids and wait patiently that Genesis adult edition arrive in the close future.

Any advice? Any other cool option that I missed?
Thanks!!


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## ism (Nov 26, 2019)

Soft or loud?


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## Quasar (Nov 26, 2019)

You could take a look at Soundiron's Olympus Elements. Lot's of bang-for-buck there IMHO.


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## emilio_n (Nov 26, 2019)

ism said:


> Soft or loud?


Good question. As I don't have any I need a little bit of both but I suppose that the libraries are focused on soft or laud...


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## Scalms (Nov 26, 2019)

+1 for Olympus elements


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## emilio_n (Nov 26, 2019)

Quasar said:


> You could take a look at Soundiron's Olympus Elements. Lot's of bang-for-buck there IMHO.


The examples in their webpage sound really nice!
Is easy to use?


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## ism (Nov 26, 2019)

My sense is the most choir libs are focused on epic by default, even when they technically do have a soft layer - for instance, the sound iron libs I have ... well I can never just quite get them to sound right at the soft dynamics. 

What stands out at the soft layer are

Eric Whittacre (but very expensive).

Insolidus, currently $214 (after you add an additional 10% code). Not nearly as versatile as others, but the arcs do what the do, and it’s just breathtaking.

The original Dominus. Much more versatile, and breathtaking in its own way.

Otherwise, I don’t feel that the other 8dio choirs are on at an especially good discount at the moment. But the sound iron ones are perfectly good, so long as you’re mostly looking for loud. Though look for deals on Mars and Venus - there are frequently $100 ish bundles with full versions of these.


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## Scalms (Nov 26, 2019)

Yes, can’t go wrong with olympus elements. I remember the first time I fired it up, instant smile on my face. Here’s a composition I did with it, choir comes in toward the end.


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## paularthur (Nov 26, 2019)

emilio_n said:


> The examples in their webpage sound really nice!
> Is easy to use?


very easy


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## Quasar (Nov 26, 2019)

emilio_n said:


> The examples in their webpage sound really nice!
> Is easy to use?


It must be, because I can use it. It's well laid out, covers the basic vowels from pp to ff, has divisi for oohs and ahs, and it's pretty dry out of the box, which I prefer because its more adaptable and flexible. It has a bunch of phrase stuff and FX too, but I haven't delved into that.


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## ism (Nov 26, 2019)

Another thought - OT is supposed to be introducing the ability to buy individual instruments shortly, which could mean that it will be possible to but, for instance, any or all of choirs in met ark 2. (Limited, and we don’t yet know the price, but the demos for these are superb).


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## emilio_n (Nov 26, 2019)

Scalms said:


> Yes, can’t go wrong with olympus elements. I remember the first time I fired it up, instant smile on my face. Here’s a composition I did with it, choir comes in toward the end.



Wooow, sound great!


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## emilio_n (Nov 26, 2019)

ism said:


> Another thought - OT is supposed to be introducing the ability to buy individual instruments shortly, which could mean that it will be possible to but, for instance, any or all of choirs in met ark 2. (Limited, and we don’t yet know the price, but the demos for these are superb).


The price right now (full orchestra) is 600€ that is out of my budget right now but I am in love with this.
I just bought another symphony Orchestra in any case.

EDIT: Looks so amazing that I am looking for discount code or something as looks the don't do BF.


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## shapeshifter00 (Nov 26, 2019)

Take a look at these :
* Spitfire Labs Choir - free
* Fluffyaudio Haunted Choir - free
* Soundiron Micro Choir or Elements.

That should cover some grounds for a low price.


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## JohnG (Nov 26, 2019)

also if you have Omnisphere there are a lot of vocal patches in that. IT's not the same as a dedicated choir library but, on the other hand, it covers a much wider range of styles, including pop / contemporary song stuff.


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 26, 2019)

The Genesis Childrens Choir from AudioBro is on sale currently and it is a sensational library.

I got Olympus Elements free with the Dorico 3 upgrade - if you have Dorico 3 you’ve already got, albeit for Halion.....


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## NekujaK (Nov 26, 2019)

Easy, inexpensive, and effective: Olympus Elements!


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## Illico (Nov 27, 2019)

Remember... I suggest to have a look on your Kontakt Play 6 Full sampler, there are Choirs with KONTAKT Factory library.
With SIPS legato script https://nilsliberg.se/ksp/scripts/sips/sips.htm
With Cubase Expression Map and keyswitch controls on vowels selection.


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## emilio_n (Nov 27, 2019)

Illico said:


> Remember... I suggest to have a look on your Kontakt Play 6 Full sampler, there are Choirs with KONTAKT Factory library.
> With SIPS legato script https://nilsliberg.se/ksp/scripts/sips/sips.htm
> With Cubase Expression Map and keyswitch controls on vowels selection.


I need to take a look at this too as I have the full edition of Kontakt.


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## Illico (Nov 27, 2019)

I also suggest Solo Alto Vocal on Embertone Freebies : https://www.embertone.com/instruments/arcane.php
Another freebies Embertone AncientVoices: https://www.embertone.com/instruments/ancientvoices.php


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## Batrawi (Nov 27, 2019)

Vir2's Aeris covers the basics and is damn simple & straight forward. It's around 300USD though, so not sure if that fits your budget


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## ptram (Nov 27, 2019)

Cinesamples is doing BF now. I personally find Voxos one of the most versatile and beautifully sounding choirs.

Paolo


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## ptram (Nov 27, 2019)

Michael Antrum said:


> I got Olympus Elements free with the Dorico 3 upgrade


Actually, Dorico 3 comes with Olympus Micro, an even more reduced version of the library.

Paolo


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## Ronny D. Ana (Nov 27, 2019)

*8Dio* has massive discounts and *VSTBuzz* also


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## Solarsentinel (Nov 27, 2019)

I suggest performance samples Oceania when it will on sale. Really easy to use


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## ism (Nov 27, 2019)

emilio_n said:


> The price right now (full orchestra) is 600€ that is out of my budget right now but I am in love with this.
> I just bought another symphony Orchestra in any case.
> 
> EDIT: Looks so amazing that I am looking for discount code or something as looks the don't do BF.



The point was that the new store - aboutI to launch - is set to let you buy individual instruments from OT libs. So it may be possilbble to just buy a single instrument at a fraction of the price of the whole library


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## emilio_n (Nov 27, 2019)

ism said:


> The point was that the new store - about to launch - is set to let you buy individual instruments from OT libs. So it may be possible to just buy a single instrument at a fraction of the price of the whole library


Ah, I see. 
Now I am more confused as there are even more choices about choirs that I thought!  
And now that I discovered the Metropolis Ark 2 I want it!!! lol. No way, If I do this I will never open the Symphony Series that I just bought a few days ago.


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## Zero&One (Nov 27, 2019)

emilio_n said:


> Ah, I see.
> Now I am more confused as there are even more choices about choirs that I thought!



Don’t look at this then or the new Storm Choir of theirs 😉









FREYJA Female Choir


The online library for premium sound samples




www.strezov-sampling.com


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## Studio E (Nov 27, 2019)

My top 3 picks would be Voxos, then Voxos, and finally....Voxos. I have like 5 or 6 libraries and I am constantly going back to Voxos, time and again. None of the others really compare.


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## Staw (Nov 27, 2019)

I am looking for a choir library as well and saw this Voxos offer for $149.50. Is this a great deal or should I go for other library? I want a non-epic choir so Voxos make me feel a bit worried (though the legato sounds good, I am thinking of just waiting for eric whitacre instead).


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## emilio_n (Nov 27, 2019)

Where did you see at this price? In their webpage is 249$

at 148,50$ I will go to buy right now!


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## Staw (Nov 27, 2019)

emilio_n said:


> Where did you see at this price? In their webpage is 249$
> 
> at 148,50$ I will go to buy right now!



here I think https://www.timespace.com/products/cinesamples-voxos-2


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## emilio_n (Nov 27, 2019)

Wooow, it’s true!
I will check if I can buy from here then.


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## ToxicRecordings (Nov 28, 2019)

Staw said:


> here I think https://www.timespace.com/products/cinesamples-voxos-2



It says 249 Euro for me.. about 270 dollars.


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## Staw (Nov 28, 2019)

ToxicRecordings said:


> It says 249 Euro for me.. about 270 dollars.


Seems to only work when you buy with USD. Both Euro and pounds are higher.


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## ThomasS (Nov 28, 2019)

My favorite versatile choirs (can do more than just epic stuff) are Dominus Pro, Genesis and Hollywood Choirs. 

Genesis:
You may not realize it, but if you put an extra track of the lower voices in Genesis, and tune it down a fifth (and then adjust the midi filter so the notes are notated correctly) you can get a reasonable 4-part choir with bass, and it sounds not bad. Although it is children, Genesis is ok for other stuff too.

Dominus Pro:
A great sounding choir for lighter feels as well as epic, and a great dynamic range. The choir is male heavy if you use many of the presets, but if you isolate the women and balance it with the men it is excellent. You can make a lot of words, even some in English, but just having the vowels change a lot makes it sound realistic.

Hollywood Choirs:
Has the most complete word-builder (but a pain the butt to program) and a great sounding choir. It is not convincing singing in English exposed, but in a track can give you a good sound imagining that they are singing words that you can't understand. I don't own it, but twice I needed it and took a month Composer Cloud subscription for 19.99 to use it.

If you like the sound of epic choirs, there are lots, but limited to that genre. Some that don't do words but have a decent sound are Insolidus and Silka.

I don't know which are on sale Black Friday, but these are a few I like.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 28, 2019)

Studio E said:


> My top 3 picks would be Voxos, then Voxos, and finally....Voxos. I have like 5 or 6 libraries and I am constantly going back to Voxos, time and again. None of the others really compare.


Hey Eric! What are some of the other choir libraries you are comparing Voxos to, and what are some of the things you really like about it? I've read that the boys choir in Voxos is one of the best out there.


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## emilio_n (Nov 28, 2019)

I think finally I am between Voxos and Génesis. 149$ and 199$ so the price is similar...
Genesis looks more modern UI with more options and Voxos looks a great all in one solution.
Dominus Pro is maybe the best, but out of my budget absolutely. About Hollywood Choir, I prefer something under Kontakt than the Play host.


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## ism (Nov 28, 2019)

emilio_n said:


> I think finally I am between Voxos and Génesis. 149$ and 199$ so the price is similar...
> Genesis looks more modern UI with more options and Voxos looks a great all in one solution.
> Dominus Pro is maybe the best, but out of my budget absolutely. About Hollywood Choir, I prefer something under Kontakt than the Play host.



Just picked up Genesis myself.

First impression - absolutely next generation compared to any other choirs I have (mostly Soundiron Venus, Mercury, that sort of thing). Simply in another league altogether, and I doubt I'll ever use any of these older generation choirs ever again, lovely though they may be.

( With the exception of Insolidus. It's arcs are phenomenal 'next generation' in the same sense that Genesis legato is. The Insolidus legatos are good, but kind of 'previous generation' compared to Genesis. But the point here is that need to understand the Insolidus legatos as extending the possibilities of the arcs, and in this sense they add a great deal of value, even if I wouldn't buy Insolidus for the legatos in the way I would buy Genesis for the legatos )


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## emilio_n (Nov 28, 2019)

ism said:


> Just picked up Genesis myself.
> 
> First impression - absolutely next generation compared to any other choirs I have (mostly Soundiron Venus, Mercury, that sort of thing). Simply in another league altogether, and I doubt I'll ever use any of these older generation choirs ever again, lovely though they may be.


Yes... I think is the path I will take too. The best offer is on their own page, right?
If I need more mature voices I will check in the future


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## Zero&One (Nov 28, 2019)

Genesis definitely


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## ism (Nov 28, 2019)

emilio_n said:


> Yes... I think is the path I will take too. The best offer is on their own page, right?
> If I need more mature voices I will check in the future



So far as I know the $199 offer on their site is the best.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 28, 2019)

emilio_n said:


> Yes... I think is the path I will take too. The best offer is on their own page, right?
> If I need more mature voices I will check in the future


There's also Arva from Strezov Sampling. It's also on sale.


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## ism (Nov 28, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> There's also Arva from Strezov Sampling. It's also on sale.



Any sense og what Area does beter than Genesis (in addition to the inclusion of soloists)?


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## Mike Fox (Nov 28, 2019)

ism said:


> Any sense og what Area does beter than Genesis (in addition to the inclusion of soloists)?


I personally like the tone of Arva a lot more (it sounds more natural to me). I also like how the library is broken down into seperate patches, as opposed to the 1 main Genesis patch (it takes a while to load and can be ram hungry). Genesis does have some features that really make it a standout though. The divisi and stage options are really something else, but I'll take tone and ease of use over options any day. That's not to say Genesis doesn't have a beautiful sound, or that it's difficult to use. It really us a great library, and one can't go wrong with either.


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## Banquet (Nov 28, 2019)

I was looking at Eric Whitacre Choir but the uncertainty about whether it will be offered on a Christmas Sale for cheaper than the BF sale (could be 40% rather than 25% off, or not included at all) is giving me a needless headache so I'm going to get Dominus instead. The non pro version of Dominus sounds gorgeous to me. I think the difference is it doesn't have english words or shorts, which isn't important to me right now. It's being discounted from $379 to $199 which is a great discount and still leaves enough in the budget to get another library for Christmas as well. The demos of Dominus have left me speechless it's one of the very few choirs which (in the demos at least) always sound totally convincing.

Edit: P.S. I also have Olympus Light and it's a great library but I think Domnus is on another level and at this reduced price definitely one to consider


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## David Kudell (Nov 28, 2019)

I picked up Dominus regular for the $199 BF sale price. You guys are really making me want to get Genesis now too.

I have used the boys choirs in Omnisphere for a long time, they’re actually quite good even though they’re just the vowels. I also love adding the gospel choir in Omni to my pop/rock tracks too, they add a lot of depth & warmth.


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## emilio_n (Nov 28, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> I personally like the tone of Arva a lot more (it sounds more natural to me). I also like how the library is broken down into seperate patches, as opposed to the 1 main Genesis patch (it takes a while to load and can be ram hungry). Genesis does have some features that really make it a standout though. The divisi and stage options are really something else, but I'll take tone and ease of use over options any day. That's not to say Genesis doesn't have a beautiful sound, or that it's difficult to use. It really us a great library, and one can't go wrong with either.


The example songs sound much better, that's true...


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## I like music (Nov 28, 2019)

I believe Wotan and Freya are on offer for those who are interested.

I feel like Dominus and Genesis go well together. Genesis is superb. As is Dominus!


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## Mike Fox (Nov 28, 2019)

emilio_n said:


> The example songs sound much better, that's true...


I personally think so, as does the entire library in general. Again, it's also nice to be able to just load individual patches, as opposed to one giant patch loaded with features and options you may never use.

Also, i wouldn't pass up Voxos just yet. The current price at Time + Space makes it a no brainer. I've NEVER seen it that cheap before. Even though i don't own it, I think you'll get just about everything you're looking for in a choir library with Voxos. I've been listening to demos and walkthroughs of it. The quality does sound quite good to me, and i can't get over just how low the noisefloor is.


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## ptram (Nov 28, 2019)

Banquet said:


> The non pro version of Dominus sounds gorgeous to me. I think the difference is it doesn't have english words or shorts,


Dominus non-Pro doesn't indeed have shorts. But the updated version should also be capable of building credible English words. I've not yet tried, though.

Paolo


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## Staw (Nov 28, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> I personally think so, as does the entire library in general. Again, it's also nice to be able to just load individual patches, as opposed to one giant patch loaded with features and options you may never use.
> 
> Also, i wouldn't pass up Voxos just yet. The current price at Time + Space makes it a no brainer. I've NEVER seen it that cheap before. Even though i don't own it, I think you'll get just about everything you're looking for in a choir library with Voxos. I've been listening to demos and walkthroughs of it. The quality does sound quite good to me, and i can't get over just how low the noisefloor is.



Compared to dominus at $199, which one do you think would be better for non-epic uses?


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## Mike Fox (Nov 28, 2019)

Staw said:


> Compared to dominus at $199, which one do you think would be better for non-epic uses?


I don't have Dominus, so I can't say. People seem to love both libraries, so maybe check out the demos/walkthroughs and decide which one sounds best to you, and what features are most important to you. Personally, I think Voxos is probably more versatile as far as covering more genre ground, whereas Dominus probably shines at everything non epic. Voxos also includes a very nice solo soprano, and boys choir.


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## Banquet (Nov 28, 2019)

ptram said:


> Dominus non-Pro doesn't indeed have shorts. But the updated version should also be capable of building credible English words. I've not yet tried, though.
> 
> Paolo



The updated version of Dominus (as opposed to pro) ? That sounds interesting


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## jbuhler (Nov 28, 2019)

ptram said:


> Dominus non-Pro doesn't indeed have shorts. But the updated version should also be capable of building credible English words. I've not yet tried, though.
> 
> Paolo


Credible nonsense English in my limited experimenting. It lacks common English consonant combinations that makes it extremely challenging to set any kind of preexisting English text, even given the fact that choirs don't enunciate well. But you can make it sound like it is singing English words and syllables (rather than Latin) as it now includes many English vowel sounds.


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## Banquet (Nov 28, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Credible nonsense English in my limited experimenting. It lacks common English consonant combinations that makes it extremely challenging to set any kind of preexisting English text, even given the fact that choirs don't enunciate well. But you can make it sound like it is singing English words and syllables (rather than Latin) as it now includes many English vowel sounds.


Would you recommend it? I'm about to pull the trigger! (love what I've heard of it)


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## SaintDufus (Nov 28, 2019)

Quasar said:


> You could take a look at Soundiron's Olympus Elements. Lot's of bang-for-buck there IMHO.


+1 for Soundiron Olympus Elements: it's a good choir library and it's cheap...especially right now, they're having a sale.


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## jbuhler (Nov 28, 2019)

Banquet said:


> Would you recommend it? I'm about to pull the trigger! (love what I've heard of it)


Personally I love it. Great sound, and it really sounds like a choir singing words. You just can't expect it to do any text you throw at it. I now have Pro which also gives shorts as well, and it's one of the few choirs I've used that does soft short syllables convincingly. I had the original version of Dominus before Pro and found it excellent for legato words and it is flexible enough that it doesn't have to sound ecclesiastical, though it does that in spades. The nature of the instrument is such that you need to use multiple instances if you need it to use more than 10 words (or rhythmic variants for the words).


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## BlackDorito (Nov 28, 2019)

Oof - VOXOS looks good and the demos sound great. My go-to choirs today are the Ark1+2 choirs, which have authentic choir voices and decent legato for men, women and children, but limited syllables and no builder. I also bought Genesis but haven't had a chance to use it on a project (.. it sounds divine when noodling with it).

If anyone is familiar with all of the above - what draws you to reach for VOXOS over the others above?


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## Mike Fox (Nov 28, 2019)

BlackDorito said:


> Oof - VOXOS looks good and the demos sound great. My go-to choirs today are the Ark1+2 choirs, which have authentic choir voices and decent legato for men, women and children, but limited syllables and no builder. I also bought Genesis but haven't had a chance to use it on a project (.. it sounds divine when noodling with it).
> 
> If anyone is familiar with all of the above - what draws you to reach for VOXOS over the others above?


Just spent a good hour with Voxos. It's not bad at all. I do think the layout is a little wacky though. For example, in the phrase builder patch, there's a couple of really loud shouting fx that separate the men and women (wtf?) It's actually quite annoying. There's also some notes/syllables that seem to just jump out, because the volume level is a little inconsistent across the board. In a mix, that actually might sound cool.

Overall, the library has a nice tone. The Ark choirs are much better than this (but those choirs are at the top of the game), and i'll probably only use Voxos for the fx and possibly boys choir, but i'll definitely be reaching for the arks, or Requiem before i reach for Voxos.


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## BlackDorito (Nov 28, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> Just spent a good hour with Voxos. It's not bad at all. I do think the layout is a little wacky though. For example, in the phrase builder patch, there's a couple of really loud shouting fx that separate the men and women (wtf?) It's actually quite annoying. There's also some notes/syllables that seem to just jump out, because the volume level is a little inconsistent across the board. In a mix, that actually might sound cool.
> 
> Overall, the library has a nice tone. The Ark choirs are much better than this (but those choirs are at the top of the game), and i'll probably only use Voxos for the fx and possibly boys choir, but i'll definitely be reaching for the arks, or Requiem before i reach for Voxos.


Thx for the crucial feedback Mike. I think I'll hold off on Voxos and just appreciate those demos this time around.


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## ism (Nov 28, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> I personally like the tone of Arva a lot more (it sounds more natural to me). I also like how the library is broken down into seperate patches, as opposed to the 1 main Genesis patch (it takes a while to load and can be ram hungry). Genesis does have some features that really make it a standout though. The divisi and stage options are really something else, but I'll take tone and ease of use over options any day. That's not to say Genesis doesn't have a beautiful sound, or that it's difficult to use. It really us a great library, and one can't go wrong with either.



Arva does sounds great.I really didn’t consider it seriously over Genesis only because of the price.

My initial impressions of Genesis are:

- it has an incredible expressive range. (Which is good, because I don’t really care for most of the official demos. If not for other demos I probably wouldn’t have bought it.) But again, the fact the so much that can be done with it isn’t quite to my taste is a symptom of it’s sheer range. And I’m loving what I can do with it. 

- running off an SSD you can run it with the samples purged just fine with no detriment to the playability. So load time and memory aren’t the issue I was worried they might be.

- similarly, you can remove 1 or more section and save , not having patches for individual SATB sections really isn’t big issue. 

- definitely it’s hard to learn. But once you go through the tutorial videos, Its to all be pretty intuitive. So the lack of instant out-of-the-box plonkability (and you really do need to watch the tutorial videos) is quite distinct from a lack of ease of use or poor playability. And it has marvellous depts of playability.


Going to keep an eye Arva though. It really does sound great also.


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## ism (Nov 28, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> I personally like the tone of Arva better





emilio_n said:


> The example songs sound much better, that's true...



Here’s a theory - I like the Genesis tone better for soft, more classical works, for which I think it’s absolutely superb. But the demos are mostly trying to be high-cinematic (and are pretty good at being high-cinematic , but I don’t know if they always show off the other styles where the library really shines all that well ). 

And I guess the tone I’m looking for is something between classical and dramatic-cinematic. Which I think the soundiron libraries I have, or Voxos, for instance, are at best middling at. There’s something in the sound I need for this space that choirs aimed at high-cinematic just can’t do well. 

Which is where EWC, Genesis, Dominus, Insoldus ... and basically nothing else that I can think of . ... are absolutely spectacular. 

But I’m still trying to figure out where Arva fits in this landscape.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 28, 2019)

ism said:


> Arva does sounds great.I really didn’t consider it seriously over Genesis only because of the price.
> 
> My initial impressions of Genesis are:
> 
> ...


100%

There are definitely some things you can do to reduce load times and whatnot. I'm just not a fan of having to find workarounds. I still think it would have been great if Audiobro gave you several individual patches, as opposed to the master one (i don't like menu diving).

You are dead on about having to watch the tutorials. There's a lot of ground that Genesis covers, and if you don't know what you're doing, you could easily get lost for hours. 

I think I'm just more of a meat and potatos kinda guy.


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## Robert_G (Nov 28, 2019)

ism said:


> Which is where EWC, Genesis, Dominus, Insoldus ... and basically nothing else that I can think of . ... are absolutely spectacular.



Did you really just compare EWC to those other amazing choirs???


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## ism (Nov 28, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Did you really just compare EWC to those other amazing choirs???



EWC would be my first choice if I could afford it.


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## Robert_G (Nov 28, 2019)

ism said:


> EWC would be my first choice if I could afford it.


Oh wait....you mean eric whitacore....lol
Thought you meant EastWest...

I take back what i said...


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## ism (Nov 28, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Oh wait....you mean eric whitacore....lol
> Thought you meant EastWest...
> 
> I take back what i said...




Ah 

Too many acronyms.


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## jbuhler (Nov 28, 2019)

ism said:


> EWC would be my first choice if I could afford it.


EWC is a great choir and nothing like any of the other choirs. It does not do high cinematic. It does not do ecclesiastical. It does not do classical. But it does do the Whitacre sound and also the choral voice as instrument, like another family of orchestral instruments, in a way that no other choir does, at least not with the same depth and variety.


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## Zero&One (Nov 28, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> EWC is a great choir and nothing like any of the other choirs. It does not do high cinematic. It does not do ecclesiastical. It does not do classical. But it does do the Whitacre sound and also the choral voice as instrument, like another family of orchestral instruments, in a way that no other choir does, at least not with the same depth and variety.



That should be a quote on the EWC page. Like poetry! 
All true, it's beautiful.


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## Studio E (Nov 29, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> Hey Eric! What are some of the other choir libraries you are comparing Voxos to, and what are some of the things you really like about it? I've read that the boys choir in Voxos is one of the best out there.



Mike, I have EWQLSC, Lacrimosa, and Requiem for full choirs. I also have Mystica and Cantus which are really beautiful and playable as well but a limited range. 

Here's my thing about Voxos. Unlike every 8Dio library I own, it's super stable and loads right up. but the BIG deal to me is that it is amazingly playable. I set it up across about 10-12 tracks to separate the sections and divi up the legato vs non-legato patches (just my way of working) and also setup a patch for the syllable/phrase function and I don't feel limited at all by it. It plays the most beautiful, soft, soprano and boys choir sounds I've heard and when you play the legato patches, it just works so well. It's like LASS to me in the payability department, and it sounds as good as any other library I've heard.

I also own Genesis and if you wanted a great children,s choir, it's on a whole other level, but as my choir staple, Voxos still amazes and inspires me every time I play it.

On the 8Dio libraries in general, I want to like them, like really I do, but I constantly seem to have issues with libraries loading. Even when they do, they hang up so long that Cubase is showing as "unresponsive" in the Task Manager and I have to wonder if it's ever going to load. My Anthogy library, even after updating the library and Kontakt, still has loading issues. I've noticed the same issues, but perhaps not as bad, with the choirs. The other thing about their choirs, or at least the ones I have of 8Dio's, is they don't feel very playable. I am a keyboard player so that's everything to me, or at least a really big deal. No hate for 8Dio, but my luck has been not good with them. It's a shame because they are some of the best sounding libraries for sure when all is working.

Here are two scores I used Voxos in. On the first one, just the intro and outro for that Elfman sweet vibe. In the other, just forward to 3:50 to here the phrase builder of Voxos doing some serious forte-level stuff.


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## ism (Nov 29, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> EWC is a great choir and nothing like any of the other choirs. It does not do high cinematic. It does not do ecclesiastical. It does not do classical. But it does do the Whitacre sound and also the choral voice as instrument, like another family of orchestral instruments, in a way that no other choir does, at least not with the same depth and variety.



That's a great way to describe it.

And on reflection - it's actually not a bad way to describe something of the space I'm looking for also.

Not sure what exactly it is, but its definitely not high cinematic (though still with a certain cinematic flavour). Not quite classical (though with a certain sense of the classical). Not quite ecclesiastical (though with certain mildly liturgical flavour at times).


For instance, I'm trying to reach this space by mixing Genesis and Insolidus. Insolidus arcs, with the right cathedral reverb have a kind of sacred vibe to them. And the genesis legatos, while don't quite reach to the kind of cathedralesque beauty of the Insolidus arcs, the between the legatos and the sense of space in the mics, can reach more easily into a more classical, contrapuntal space. Mix this with some textural Olafur evos - and here's where I profoundly wish I had the Eric Whitacre choir - and we reach into a more cinematic (or perhaps neo-classical) space. But not a high-cinematic space. Still messing around mics and with reverbs, but I think this can be made to fit together quite seamlessly.


Part of my grappling with what this space is though, is that there's a dominant conventional approach to sampling of various types of "cinematic" choir - ie. Venus, Mercury (which I have) and nearly every other sampled choir so far as I can tell from the demos - that while very good in their own right, just doesn't quite fit into this space that I'm going for (whatever it is) for reasons that I can't always quite put my finger on. But I think it might have to do with them just not been deeply enough sampled at softer dynamics (though I think its more than that).


And something I love about the EWC - and Dominus, Insolidus, Genesis, but especially EWC - is the way it doesn't even attempt to conform that to conventional "cinematic choir", but forges unapologetically into new space.

Anyway, it's a great time to be buying choirs.


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## jbuhler (Nov 29, 2019)

ism said:


> That's a great way to describe it.
> 
> And on reflection - it's actually not a bad way to describe something of the space I'm looking for also.
> 
> ...


Have you tried working this way with the choirs from Time Macro and Time Micro? They seem closest in spirit to the Whitacre, though not as much variety and depth. The Whitacre also has these amazingly long arcs. The sample patch in the Labs gives some indication of this aspect.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 29, 2019)

Studio E said:


> Mike, I have EWQLSC, Lacrimosa, and Requiem for full choirs. I also have Mystica and Cantus which are really beautiful and playable as well but a limited range.
> 
> Here's my thing about Voxos. Unlike every 8Dio library I own, it's super stable and loads right up. but the BIG deal to me is that it is amazingly playable. I set it up across about 10-12 tracks to separate the sections and divi up the legato vs non-legato patches (just my way of working) and also setup a patch for the syllable/phrase function and I don't feel limited at all by it. It plays the most beautiful, soft, soprano and boys choir sounds I've heard and when you play the legato patches, it just works so well. It's like LASS to me in the payability department, and it sounds as good as any other library I've heard.
> 
> ...



Thanks Eric!

I think the important takeaway is that if it works for you, then it works.

I totally agree about 8Dio's playability for some of their libraries. I have Studio Sopranos and Jenifer, and while the sound is gorgeous, they can be hard to work with. I don't have Requiem from 8dio, but Requiem Lite from Soundiron, which is somewhat of a different beast to my understanding. The playability is stupid easy, and i have zero issues with it.

I've also been spoiled by the Ark choirs, which are superior to just about everything else I've tried, and so it's hard to not judge Voxos without comparing it to that. 

That being said, i do think Voxos is a solid library (even with its minor quirks) and is certainly capable of achieving some excellent results, as you've pointed out. I also appreciate its really low noise floor, which is really about as good as it gets, and I may end up using it for some things based on that alone. 

Anyway, keep up the awesome work Eric! I always enjoy your music. 

Cheers!


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## Zero&One (Nov 29, 2019)

Studio E said:


> Here are two scores I used Voxos in. On the first one, just the intro and outro for that Elfman sweet vibe.



Excellent! Lovely music.
Loved that dragon and his little dance


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## emilio_n (Nov 29, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> Just spent a good hour with Voxos. It's not bad at all. I do think the layout is a little wacky though. For example, in the phrase builder patch, there's a couple of really loud shouting fx that separate the men and women (wtf?) It's actually quite annoying. There's also some notes/syllables that seem to just jump out, because the volume level is a little inconsistent across the board. In a mix, that actually might sound cool.
> 
> Overall, the library has a nice tone. The Ark choirs are much better than this (but those choirs are at the top of the game), and i'll probably only use Voxos for the fx and possibly boys choir, but i'll definitely be reaching for the arks, or Requiem before i reach for Voxos.


I just wish that Metropolis series have a BF discount to get ARK 2. But looks no right now.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 29, 2019)

emilio_n said:


> I just wish that Metropolis series have a BF discount to get ARK 2. But looks no right now.


Hopefully they'll have a Christmas sale!


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## pipedr (Nov 29, 2019)

Great thoughts in this thread. I want to buy a choir this BF; I have only Venus right now--I like the sound. The legatos have a bit of ducking, and the dynamic crossfade is pretty good, but the expressiveness could be better. I'd probably be using the choir as a backing instrument in a Disney kind of style--or like Tchaikovsky's Waltz of the Snowflakes, which I tried to emulate with my last choir track.

Voxos 2 sounds like a great deal. I like the sound of the choir; seems more 'pop' cinematic with an upfront kind of sound and not too large of a section. Seems great to have separate S-A-T-B, and boys choir, and soloists. Is it a limitation to only have Aah-Oh legato? (No mmm, eh, etc.). No marcatos?

Lacrimosa looks better on paper, with more articulations. I like 8dio and the arc approach, but haven't worked much with arcs and choirs. All the demos, though, don't sound like what I'd want to do with a choir (I suppose it's what people call Epic).

Dominus seems to be very well received. But this choir sounds very church/ecclesiastical to me, which does not suit my purposes. Also, I don't see myself needing to make custom phrases, which seems to be the major advancement of this library. How is the dynamic expression? How are the legato transitions?

Genesis seems to be also very well received. I get the sense that if I bought this, I wouldn't need any other children's choir. However, a children's choir seems to be a specialized sound--horror tracks and christmas music, as another poster put it.

Eric Whitacre also seems very well received, with a lot of articulations, arcs, and evos, but seems specialized for pads? No staccatos? If I bought this, would it be the only choir I needed?

Wotan/Freyja are said to have some of the best legatos, and an advanced phrase building engine.

So, Voxos 2 as an all in one solution? Genesis + Lacrimosa? Genesis + Wotan/Frejya? Eric Whitacre?

What would you choir experts say?


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## Mike Fox (Nov 29, 2019)

pipedr said:


> Great thoughts in this thread. I want to buy a choir this BF; I have only Venus right now--I like the sound. The legatos have a bit of ducking, and the dynamic crossfade is pretty good, but the expressiveness could be better. I'd probably be using the choir as a backing instrument in a Disney kind of style--or like Tchaikovsky's Waltz of the Snowflakes, which I tried to emulate with my last choir track.
> 
> Voxos 2 sounds like a great deal. I like the sound of the choir; seems more 'pop' cinematic with an upfront kind of sound and not too large of a section. Seems great to have separate S-A-T-B, and boys choir, and soloists. Is it a limitation to only have Aah-Oh legato? (No mmm, eh, etc.). No marcatos?
> 
> ...


If you can swing it, I'd go with Wotan/Frejya. They sound amazing and are quite versitile. 

If you want a choir on the cheap, the current Voxos deal is tough to beat.


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## Robert_G (Nov 29, 2019)

pipedr said:


> Genesis seems to be also very well received. I get the sense that if I bought this, I wouldn't need any other children's choir.



That is a correct statement


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## jbuhler (Nov 29, 2019)

pipedr said:


> Eric Whitacre also seems very well received, with a lot of articulations, arcs, and evos, but seems specialized for pads? No staccatos? If I bought this, would it be the only choir I needed?


Only if what you needed a choir for was to do what this library does. It does not do standard choir well at all, and I find the legatos serviceable and no more. But that's not what this choir is designed to do. So you do need a choir that can do standard as well. Dominus doesn't have to sound ecclesiastical, though that's what it's set up for out of the box and it is its bread and butter. It can do standard and even high cinematic but it is designed around syllables and words. It can do a wide variety of vowels too.


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## pipedr (Nov 29, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Only if what you needed a choir for was to do what this library does. It does not do standard choir well at all, and I find the legatos serviceable and no more. But that's not what this choir is designed to do. So you do need a choir that can do standard as well. Dominus doesn't have to sound ecclesiastical, though that's what it's set up for out of the box and it is its bread and butter. It can do standard and even high cinematic but it is designed around syllables and words. It can do a wide variety of vowels too.


Thanks for that perspective on Eric Whitaker. What are examples of standard and high cinematic?


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## emilio_n (Nov 29, 2019)

How Mix Voxos and Genesis? Gave sense buy and use both together?


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## Scalms (Nov 29, 2019)

Which of these libraries (besides Genesis) has the best legato? looking for a choir that can do an up-tempo “ooo” for a melodic line and be able to keep up. Maybe this doesn’t exist yet?


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## jbuhler (Nov 29, 2019)

pipedr said:


> Thanks for that perspective on Eric Whitaker. What are examples of standard and high cinematic?


I think of standard as contemporary secular choir music sung mostly in schools and colleges, but also things like the choirs in Mahler's Symphonies or Zemlinsky's Lyric Symphony. I think of high cinematic primarily as the shouty epic style descended from Carmina Burana but also things like _The Robe_, the "Storm Cloud Cantata" from _The Man Who Knew Too Much_, or the theme to the TV show _Merlin_, and in a somewhat quieter vein magical music like Rivendell in LotR, or the Ice Dance in _Edward Scissorshand_. In my experience, most VI choirs can do high cinematic reasonably well, especially when accompanied by orchestra, (though few do FF syllables as well and as easily as Oceania or the Ark I choir) and they do okay in standard style so long as you don't push them beyond legato vowels, though legato is often dicey as well when a cappella. Most VI choirs are optimized for mf-ff, with the soft side as an afterhought.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 30, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> That is a correct statement


That probably is a correct statement. Genesis is a solid standalone children's choir library. The options and features are plentiful, and top shelf.

I actually ended up buying Arva after Genesis though, because I really preferred the tone of it. It's so much more natural to my ears, and much more intimate (with the flexibility to get cinematic).

But I'm a sucker for children's choir libraries, and will be using both!


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## DoVin2 (Dec 1, 2019)

Oceania


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## emilio_n (Dec 3, 2019)

Requiem Professional is just 98$... Any of you recommend it? If not I think I will wait a little bit and but Wotan + Freyja with educational discount...


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## DoVin2 (Dec 3, 2019)

Fast, cheap, or accurate... you can only have 2, lol


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## emilio_n (Dec 3, 2019)

DoVin2 said:


> Oceania


Agree with Oceania, but I will need to wait until the next sale. I missed the last one. Looks incredible.


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## emilio_n (Dec 3, 2019)

DoVin2 said:


> Fast, cheap, or accurate... you can only have 2, lol


I am afraid that you are right.


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## Will Blackburn (Apr 9, 2020)

What did you go for in the end Emillio?


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## emilio_n (Apr 9, 2020)

I got Tutti Vox in the last Christmas sale from Sonokinetic. Is very cool but a little bit special too. I got with a big discount but same as the rest of Sonokinetic libraries that I have, I love all and I think they have a lot of possibilities but I can't find the place to use or the time to learn well yet. 
But with all the research I made, I think Wotan, Freyja and Arva are the more I like. Maybe for the next Black Friday! This is a real rabbit hole and every time I want or I think I need something different!


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## jpup4life (Nov 25, 2020)

Regardless of the sales, the choir library dilemma is as difficult to navigate as it was last year lol. It seems very crucial to know exactly what your unique needs are in selecting a choir library.

Personally, this is my first choir library purchase, and I'm looking for that "Skyrim" sound. I'd love the choir to be seamless and completely meshed with the sound of the orchestra. However I'd need it to be capable of carrying a great sense of space and distance with it, especially when I need it to fade in and out of use. To have my choir stand out too much at all times without my control wouldn't be good.

I've saved up for a Christmas wishlist sale for the Eric Whitacre choir. (Possibly 350$) It's an amazing library, especially with its unique sounding evolutions. But my sights have been set on other libraries too, simply because I DO INDEED NEED MORE than just "ooh's" and "aah's".

Currently for BF 2020, cinesamples has a great $350 bundle for Voxos/men of war choir. And thanks to this thread I was led to the time-space site where the same bundle is like 35$ cheaper. I like the CS choirs for their versatility, soloists, boy choir, and solid sound (which seems to sound amazing for anything pre-Renaissance). Seems to cover anything I might need.

But after hearing the regular Dominus library, (currently $189), I'm blown away by its beauty, its list of phonetics, and the way it realistically handles pronounciation. Ultimately I wish every library was just as convincing as Dominus is. There just seems to be no unnatural siblances or peaks in volume. It's like the choir actually has breath going into it. And that level of detail just sounds right to my ears. If CS could do this, Id've gone with them in a heart beat. Only downside with Dominus is I would have to upgrade to the full version of Kontakt (probably 250$ during Christmas). So that makes it about the same price for me 😂. So I guess I'm destined to pay 350$ for my first choir library. However I understand that getting the full version of kontakt is highly recommended. I have 2 spitfire libraries, and embertone stuff that could benefit from this.

So I'm still currently stuck between the current BF sale for Cinesamples, and dominus. I'll have to really dig into the demos and specs, and finally look within myself to determine own needs to choose what is right for me.


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