# Hans zimmer role in scoring



## amitnj29 (Nov 17, 2015)

Hi all. Since long I wanted to ask this question. And I really want to know this.

I read a post by Hans, where he says, he's the architect of the score.
And in other posts I read, that he doesn't orchestrate music himself. He gives it to the other programmers/composers to compose for him. He just tell them what he wants.

So I am very confused as to how he works and how much does he contribute to a score, in what way, like scoring himself, or just giving guidelines to others, etc, etc.

I would love it if someone could explain, in detail, how Hans and these big budget scoring works.


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## Dean (Nov 17, 2015)

amitnj29 said:


> Hi all. Since long I wanted to ask this question. And I really want to know this.
> 
> I read a post by Hans, where he says, he's the architect of the score.
> And in other posts I read, that he doesn't orchestrate music himself. He gives it to the other programmers/composers to compose for him. He just tell them what he wants.
> ...



Think of an architect who designs a skyscraper building,they don't also drive the diggers,pour the foundations and install the elevators shafts,fittings and plumbing themselves? They hire people to do that but the architect (and his team) will make all the architectural decisions,oversee and control all aspects of the building process to meet their vision (while constantly battling to please building authorities and safety commissions (Directors/producers.).Then they sign off on the finished building so the buck stops with them,..if anything goes wrong its all on the architect (composer).
note: Although in film score land the director/producers/music editors can always step in and change it all after the composer has long signed off.


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## Dean (Nov 17, 2015)

amitnj29 said:


> I totally get your point. And when you said the above quoted thing, these things, in musical terms would be, like for example, creating soundscapes, rhythms, or may be a theme itself ?
> So if a composer is outsourcing almost all the work, and giving guidelines to them; is he just sitting in a air conditioned room. I must be sounding crazy. But I cannot see what they themselves are doing then, other then to keep a check and see what music works and what does not work on the movie.



Good grief no.  Most composers will work tirelessly 7 days a week for 6 months to a year on a feature film,working closely with the director to establish the themes,tone,sound.style of the score from start to finish.If its an orchestral score they will usually do extensive (and brilliant) midi mock-ups themselves of all the main themes and then work with additional composers and assistants re orchestration/copying etc,.They will be present at most live recordings,directing and coaxing the exact performance/sound the score needs,they will also compose and mock-up re-writes/edits/sound design/synths (with some help if budget allows) some perform instruments themselves too ,..all this right up untill the final music mix and delivery and usually whil starting another film score and so on,(untill they realise that the tail is wagging the dog.)

Note: There may be Air Conditioning,..(only in Hollywood huh?  )


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## Guffy (Nov 17, 2015)

I can assure you that Hans did not get to where he is today by "just sitting in an air conditioned room"


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## Dean (Nov 17, 2015)

Fugdup said:


> I can assure you that Hans did not get to where he is today by "just sitting in an air conditioned room"



Ordering air-con as I type,..Hollywood here I come! D


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## jononotbono (Nov 17, 2015)

I wish I had air conditioning. I think I have over done the Insulation when I rebuilt the bay window and as a result my pot of Cadburys Heroes sat there melting... without the heating on! Haha!


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## Daniel James (Nov 17, 2015)

Lol everyone always seems to think they know what goes on behind the walls of Remote Control. Unless you hear it from the man himself just assume what anyone else says as hearsay. 

But for the record, the stripper parties on Friday nights are pretty cool!

-DJ


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## amitnj29 (Nov 17, 2015)

yeah. only a few 1% get a chance to actually see how things are going on inside the studios. Others are left with no other option than to ask experienced people, which I just did. would that be termed as assumption. What else we got? I dont know if this is what you mean by your post.


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## Dean (Nov 17, 2015)

amitnj29 said:


> yeah. only a few 1% get a chance to actually see how things are going on inside the studios. Others are left with no other option than to ask experienced people, which I just did. would that be termed as assumption. What else we got? I dont know if this is what you mean by your post.



(Hes just trying to be funny.)

You should check out Man Of Steel (I think Blu-Ray version ? )I heard this includes Zimmers original orchestral midi mock-up of the Man Of Steel suite. D


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## sleepy hollow (Nov 17, 2015)

How do they handle the air conditioning when the strippers are in? Does anyone know?

Please answer fast - I can't stand the complaints anymore. Thx.


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## amitnj29 (Nov 17, 2015)

I was unsure of his meaning. I asked.
Oh ! how I love each single track of Man of Steel, just like all fans! I will check on the Midi mock up suite though. Now.


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## kunst91 (Nov 17, 2015)

Daniel James said:


> But for the record, the stripper parties on Friday nights are pretty cool!
> 
> -DJ



I KNEW IT


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## tokatila (Nov 17, 2015)




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## Daniel James (Nov 17, 2015)

Dean said:


> (Hes just trying to be funny.)



Well the second part, yes, but my first comment, no.

There is so often topics like this where everyone chimes in and proclaims to know how Hans' scores are created, when in reality there are so many factors in play on any given project that anything anyone proclaims can only be taken as hearsay. The only person who can say definitively who does/did what is Hans. 

-DJ


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## Dean (Nov 17, 2015)

amitnj29 said:


> I was unsure of his meaning. I asked.
> Oh ! how I love each single track of Man of Steel, just like all fans! I will check on the Midi mock up suite though. Now.



Dont worry about it,..check out that mock-up. D


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## SillyMidOn (Nov 17, 2015)

I guess the questions in general is how much the composer writes, and how much the assistants/orchestrator/arrangers do. I cannot speak for Hans Zimmer at all, but you can draw a parallel with the (fine) art world. Some "artists" have armies of assistants (Jeff Koons, Damien Hirst, though neither of those two would qualify by my terms as artists; the great, late art critic Robert Hughes would agree with me there). In fact David Hockney was so incensed by the proliferation of assistants finishing or even doing all of the work of the artists, only for them to stick their signature on, that Hockney at one exhibition put up a sign next to his artwork declaring:

"_All the works here were made by the artist himself, personally_" See http://faso.com/fineartviews/38751/...e-use-of-artist-assistants-where-do-you-stand

Michelangelo had assistants but we don't know for certain how much they did. Most definitely mix his paints (in those days an important job). Jackson Pollock most definitely didn't have any, each painting a visceral exclamation of blood, sweet and tears. But Pollock's output was also much smaller.

To come back to the music world, though. My piano and arranging professor at uni told me quite matter of factly during a lesson that he used to ghost write for someone famous for years, but even after 3 years of lessons he would not divulge his name. Damn. It definitely happens in our industry. I can remember sitting across the table from several reps of a big computer game company, who told me that one game they had a big name composer on who only wrote the main theme, and the assistants had to write everything else - said company was not happy about this. So as in the art world, the degree to how much an assistant/orchestrator/arranger has to do varies hugely from composer to composer. It of course depends on how broad the skill-set of a composer is as well. 

There are some very interesting interviews on the internet of composers who have been assistants. Here are two, but there are many more:

http://soundiron.com/pages/matthew-llewellyn ... highlight from that interview:

_"I had never heard the term “ghostwriting” until I moved to Los Angeles. It’s a little disappointing to see how much music is ghost written on big projects but that also means there are more opportunities to write on big projects_."

http://8dio.com/blog/#blog/interview-with-todd-haberman/ .... highlight from that interview: 

_"How does it feel to see a treasured score released to critical acclaim with no perceptible credit? Is it something you just learn to leave behind?

Yeah you learn to let it go. It burns"_

Let me close by saying that Miles Davis never had anyone ghost for him on any recordings or on stage.


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## timtom (Nov 18, 2015)

okay so here are my 2 cents,

You have to step back and see the whole picture. Especially with Hans you picked a very special exception but more and more bigger name composers are going the same route.
You have to keep in mind that besides HZ being a composer and producer he, over the years and decades, also build up a business based on his talent, career and success, not to mention actually several business. He is also shareholder and investor and CEO of different entities. He is also running a huge studio complex which involves taking care and guiding people, paying salaries, guiding projects and standing up (and risking) his name with it. Just his Studio complex has an infrastructure you can compare to running a small city. Even though he has studio managers and lawyers and tons of people working for him and keeping the workload and decisionload off his back still quite a lot of his time goes into keeping this infrastructure going which is time consuming. Not to mention all the meetings and phone calls he has to attend which are also time consuming. So already just by the matter of time he wouldn't be able to handily all of this all by himself. The day only has 24 hours.

Then he also has a family and kids who also would be happy to see their father and husband here and there and spend some time with him. And now we only scratched the surface. Actually its a little wonder that he still finds the time to even walk into a studio and also do music production but he does because he is a freak and he loves what he does and still keeps inventing and writing new music. You may like or not like his music but it is a fact that he had (and still has) a strong footprint in this industry and was strongly involved in the way how film music sounds today. If you once achive what he did you don't even have to lift a finger any more and could just zip Pina Coladas at the beach but he prefers to go back into a windowless room and keeps on writing and producing music. Yes, it can happen that somewhere the oboe line in a pice was orchestrated in by some composer arranger at his studio and that here and there some extra bars of music have been composed additionally by somebody else BUT! the main foundation, the thematic composition, the creation of the overall sound and tone of the score...so if you like to say the DNA of the score still comes from him.

Same counts for others such as Brian Tyler for example. All these composers build an infrastructure based on their success and talent and now they have musicians and composers and arranger working for them but at the end of the day it is them HZ, BT name whoever you like who are standing up with their name and experience for the movie and (as the studios always hope/wish) guarantee a certain level of success or benefit for the movie (which of course if at the same time bullshit because a movie can also fail at the box office even if it has a HZ as a composer on board). So to finish that long story short. People like HZ in this league are still in control and behind the drivers seat. Maybe they don't write every note themselves but they still do a lot and you can be damm sure that they will make sure the music sounds the way they want it or they think is the best for the movie. At the end its their name and career they risk if things go south... Like Dean said before such composers and their studios are like architect offices for film music as it stands today and this architect offices guarantee with their staff that the music WILL BE delivered in time with the level of quality the studio expects...its not just all creativity...its also a business.


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## DHousden (Nov 18, 2015)

He addressed this in a recent interview with his daughter http://mag.citizensofhumanity.com/hans-zimmer-zoe-zimmer/?hash=e5995860-d462-4a2b-a8df-90433e92ca9a

Specifically - 
_
ZZ: Does it piss you off when people question the way the studio works? In terms of having people write for you—you know, when it’s made out to be Hans Zimmer’s Musical Sweatshop?


HZ: Well,they can’t have it both ways. Because on the one hand I get knocked for “sounding the same,” which of course doesn’t actually make any sense—look at the films I did with Ridley [Scott], and that’s just one filmmaker: Thelma & Louise doesn’t sound anything like Gladiator, which doesn’t sound anything like Black Hawk Down, which doesn’t sound anything like Hannibal, which doesn’t sound anything like Black Rain, which doesn’t sound anything like Matchstick Men…


ZZ: I really liked Matchstick Men.


HZ: So did I, but I think we were the only ones. So anyway, on the one hand there’s obviously a very strong imprint in the architecture of the studio, and on the other hand… I mean, you already know all of this. I write these pieces and they’re very complete, everything’s done on them—the orchestration, everything. But like everybody, I need assistants. I’m the architect, but I need a couple of bricklayers, y’know? Do you think Michelangelo painted every square inch of the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel? Probably not—it would have killed him if he had to do it all by himself!


ZZ: Fair enough. So do you think people who make those assumptions are just uninformed about the system? Because assisting and writing additional music is basically how you get your foot in the door, right?


HZ: Well, yes and no. It didn’t really used to be like that. When I got to Hollywood it was slightly different. The studios had orchestrators and arrangers on staff, and they never really got credit for anything. They were just “Backroom Boys.” So now I really do fight for credits for people, even really small credits. It’s important to me that people get to participate, and that they get credit and that they are visible, so I really do fight fort hem. They might not be the architects, but it’s still their time that they give me, that they give to these projects.


ZZ: Interstellar was all you though, wasn’t it?


HZ: All me. Interstellar nobody got to write a single note on other than me. And although a lot of musicians played on it, one of the things we tried to preserve was the singularity of my touch and my vision, and literally me playing every note. I mean, on all of these scores I have at one time or another played every single note. But unfortunately the story of me just sitting there by myself and writing is far less exciting and scandalous than the idea of assistants and ghostwriters._


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## Michael Rajecki (Nov 18, 2015)

That was really interesting David, thanks for posting. People love to give HZ crap but it's impossible for me to imagine someone who is a major Hollywood composer not working on their scores themselves. People don't get into film scoring for the money, fame, or job security... they get into it because they love making music. HZ by his nature isn't going to sit down and let everyone else make his music for him because he _loves making music_. Sure, there are assistants involved and the work they do varies from piece to piece depending on the nature of the project, but I have no doubt that HZ is there every step of the way to try and make the score as good as it can possibly be.


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## Dave Connor (Nov 18, 2015)

You can always recognize the compositional traits and personality of John Williams or Goldsmith or Thomas Newman or Bernard Herrmann or Korngold or Gregson-Williams or Powell in their work. That's very much the case with Hans Zimmer as well. These guys are scoring their films. All have used orchestrators etc., because of the time element alone. I don't see an issue of integrity with any of the above. In fact, that is one of the reasons their scores are so good. Each one has a musical integrity that insists their scores meet their own standards which are very high and what we like about them and their music.


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## Baron Greuner (Nov 18, 2015)

Dave did Herrmann use an orchestrator? Not sure if he did but put me right if I'm wrong.


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## Dave Connor (Nov 18, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> Dave did Herrmann use an orchestrator? Not sure if he did but put me right if I'm wrong.


No I don't think he did and neither did Goldsmith (in the traditional sense because his orchestrators took complete 6 or 8 staves and put them into full score.) The point being that they all had help to various degrees which is much different than someone else scoring the film.


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## NoamL (Nov 19, 2015)

Unfortunately *every major living composer *has to deal with this nonsense.

More than once, I've seen noncomposers in online forums or real life assert that _JOHN WILLIAMS_ just writes a tune at the piano and then "an army of anonymous orchestrators" flesh it out for the LSO. It goes hand in hand with the laughable "Jaws is Dvorak" plagiarism accusations and the bafflingly wrong "every HZ score is the same" meme, and so on.

Someone once wrote something like "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."

I think our culture has very, very deeply ingrained the idea that only a canonical list of long-dead composers can be "greats," therefore people find excuses to discount the works of great living composers. To those sorts of people there can never be a great record, or a great film score, because those media weren't around in 1803.


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## NoamL (Nov 19, 2015)

By noncomposers I meant people who don't write music...


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## AlexRuger (Nov 20, 2015)

I've worked for a few high-profile composers, and yes, ghost-writing happens. I've been the ghost-writer.

To answer the question of this thread, it's not like the lead composer isn't doing anything. In my experience, they're still writing the majority of the cues and will never let a "big" or "important" cue go to a ghost-writer--guys like me handle the smaller cues, and it's written under the _very_ watchful eye of the composer. You're just realizing ("making real") the decisions that they relay to you, so in a sense, you're not really "composing," i.e. making your own creative decisions. You might have some small degree of creative autonomy, but if the composer doesn't like it, there's no way it's staying in the score. Their vision trumps all.

If a ghost-writer does get his/her hands on a "big" cue, it's for things like music programming or arranging (I've often been given a sketch of a cue with piano and strings/brass/winds ensemble patches and been told, "Flesh this out, make it better, add some percussion, etc"), or to simply massage the MIDI and make it sound better before the next meeting with the director/producers. As we all know, writing is fast but making it sound good takes a long time, and it has to sound as close to a finished product as possible before The Brass listen to it.

Nevertheless, the "lead" composers are still working themselves to the bone. Remember that the job of the composer isn't necessarily to have the best orchestrations or production--those are things other people can handle, and often do.

The job of the composer is to 1) decide the sound/creative direction of the score, hone in on it, and find a way to make it real; 2) write to picture (some of the best film composers in history are crappy "actual" composers but can feel a scene better than anyone--drama is their instrument); and 3) deliver it on time. They're like directors, and cinematographers are the orchestrators, second-unit directors are the additional music composers, etc. But if the movie sucks, it's the director's fault. Same with composers. They're making the decisions, they're calling the shots, and even though they have help, the amount that they do and deal with is staggering.

(Side-note: Often times music editors deal more heavily with the timing of music to picture than composers do. As a composer, I'm not sure how I feel about this trend--and it's definitely been increasing in the past decade or so--but as a music editor, I love this trend!  )

Composers are hired for their creative decisions (something that is often underestimated--it's easy to critique someone else's finished score, but we all know the fear one feels while looking at a blank page), their instinct, and yes, their name. There's no escaping that. But their name doesn't become prestigious without the work to back it up. It's ridiculous to assume that high-profile composers can't or don't write music. Seriously? The only person I can think of who became super mega-successful without really knowing the trade is Steve Jobs (couldn't really code), but that's the exception to the rule and is indicative of a unique product in a unique moment in time being developed by a unique (not necessarily good) person, and--contrary to the fact that every month we get a new Jobs bio--should not necessarily be applied to our own lives or careers. But every other successful person I can think of slays at what they do. Elon Musk is a brilliant engineer and programmer. Hans Zimmer lives and breathes sound and is probably a better synthesist, mixer, and producer than anyone on this forum.

The only thing that I think one should apply from Jobs' career is that the obvious skill (coding) isn't necessarily the most important skill for successful in a given trade. For computers, it was marketing, and he was just the one who saw it first. For film scoring, maybe it's not that different...maybe branding as opposed to marketing? Creating a vibe that other people like (but doing it better than anyone else)? For Hans, it might be that his sound resonates with the zeitgeist of the early 21st century. Maybe if his name weren't cool (Zimmer!), he wouldn't be as successful. Who knows? You can't plan this stuff, try as we might.

Plus, as others have pointed out, there's the day-to-day duties of running a business, of finding the next job, demoing (I worked for Elfman for a while, and yes, even he demos), taking meetings, etc etc etc. Not all composers hire ghost-writers, but no composer works in isolation. We all need help.

I myself am not a fan of the practice of hiring ghost-writers (never have and can't imagine I ever will--nothing screams artistic suicide like giving a reason for your audience to question whether or not you created your work), and have worked for some composers who refuse to let anyone touch the writing/orchestrating/generally "note stuff" of their scores (they hire mixers and orchestrators, but the orchestrators don't do a whole lot of "actual" orchestrating. It's mostly making things look good in Sibelius), so it's possible to get the job done without that sort of help and have a successful career. It does take super-human speed and work ethic, though.

I quite like the idea of additional music writers and feel that it should be the default as opposed to ghost-writers (like I said above, they're sort of like second-unit directors, a sort of modern-day apprenticeship), because to me, credit is non-negotiable, and the fact that composers need help needs to be more transparent, especially as deadlines seemingly get shorter every year (but maybe that's just my imagination). I often see a sort of shame for having a team, where the composer tries to instill in everyone around them that they do all this on their own, playing to the mythical image of the "tortured lonely artist," while the rest of the filmmaking _and_ music worlds are dare-I-say proudly built on collaboration.

Hans gets the short end of the stick here--as far as I know, he gives credit far more often and accurately than some other "A-list" composers. I can see this changing, too. As I understand it, ghost-writing actually used to be more common. I'm seeing the term "additional music" crop up more and more now, which is refreshing (It's not all good, though--mixed with the ever-shrinking, fewer-risks-taking Hollywood, I think it actually might be _more _difficult for young composers to come up than it used to be. That's a different story, though).

All that said, I've definitely seen some composers who find success and get cocky and start farming out more than they should. The temptation is obvious and I'm sure any one would at least feel the devil on their shoulder, even if we say we wouldn't listen to it. They get a bad rap around town for that, though, and their career usually suffers, as bad decisions like that aren't made in isolation and are usually joined by other bad decisions.

Generally speaking, if a composer's career has had staying power and they've hired writers--ghosts or otherwise--they're going about it well by giving credit where credit is due and/or helping boost the careers of their employees and not just standing on the shoulders of others. Greed can get you far in Hollywood, but honesty gets you farther.


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## ghostnote (Nov 20, 2015)

I can't speak for Hans, neither I can give you an insight in the work routine in the RC, but I think Hans, beeing the enfant terrible of film music we all love, simply knows how to "orchestrate" his assistants and co writers as much as his DAW. I don't know the details, but the way I'd do it would be to get an image what the the movie is about and do some pitches for the various scenes that are required (action or drama, etc). After speaking to the director and making adjustment or rework, I'd call the co-writers in and discuss with em what their roles are. Doesn't matter if there's already footage ready. The feeling, the idea behind the movie is what's important.

However...

IMO One big factor why Hans is still in the business is not only his talent, it's the fact that he can deliver his stuff on time and that's thanks to all his assistants. I mean you've probably all heard the story of Horner and Cameron working on Aliens: 

Hans way to get things done in time AND to keep his routine and creativity (darnit, I've just spilled my glass of wine over my JEM... let me clear this mess up... where was I... oh yeah) is to jump over his ego and just do what he does best: writing themes. Coming from Rock and Pop music I can fully understand Hans. Scoring isn't EVERYTHING, It's the theme. The idea behind it. Everything else can be "orchestrated".


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## germancomponist (Nov 20, 2015)

Believe me: Being a ghost writer is very sexy!


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## AlexRuger (Nov 20, 2015)

So sad to hear James say, "Life is too short."

His definitely was.


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## NoamL (Nov 20, 2015)

Terrific analogy in the middle of your post Alex. Never heard anyone argue that 2nd unit directing undermines the creative vision of the director. Or that the director is sitting in a room approving shots  Everyone knows 2nd unit is about maximizing resources and time to get the film done in a way that makes business sense, while also making sure everything is shot according to the creative choices of the director so that the film is a seamless whole.

It's all about expectations. Film is very transparent to the public - everyone knows film is a craft, film is collaborative, film is a business. Whereas composers are measured, by the public, against this phoney mythic ideal of the Mozart-and-Beethoven "tortured Romantic genius." Or even worse, the savant/prodigy. No one can live up to these expectations or should want to. Being a tortured soul or a savant doesn't serve the film. Yet our pop culture keeps pushing these cliches. It must blow to be a jazz musician and have a Best-Picture-nominated film come out that says jazz is a matter of savantism, physical endurance, and playing real fast to an unheard click. (still a great movie, of course)


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## SillyMidOn (Nov 21, 2015)

AlexRuger said:


> Maybe if his name weren't cool (Zimmer!), he wouldn't be as successful. Who knows?



Great post. 

Though "Zimmer" is German for "Room". Hans Room - a cool name? Maybe Mark Zuckerberg has a great name? Zuckerberg = Sugarmountain (in German).


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## Dave Connor (Nov 21, 2015)

I think some folks are missing what is probably the most important point in a question like this. No one at RC is _writing _like Hans Zimmer. That's because nobody anywhere is writing like him but him. No one anywhere is writing like John Williams or Alexandre Desplat or Thomas Newman. Their music sounds the way it does because of the totality of who they are as composers. Hans may be a master synthesist or groove-meister or orchestrator or sound designer or trendsetter or whatever but his abilities as a composer are completely unique to him and ultimately what you are hearing in his music. He employs a wide sonic palette which of course makes sense as whenever instrumentation expanded throughout history. Also the blending of sounds from the street with orchestra as Beethoven and Mahler did but none of these approaches would be particularly effective without the musical construction: the composition of all these elements. Aside from any modern considerations at all the man is one hell of a composer if you were to take away everything but his part writing and put it in a piano reduction. You can't hire some young guy to come in and take over those duties. The score you hear is always going to come from the composer himself whatever the particulars are in it's realization.


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## amitnj29 (Nov 21, 2015)

Dave Connor said:


> Aside from any modern considerations at all the man is one hell of a composer if you were to take away everything but his part writing and put it in a piano reduction.


Truly Magical! 



Dave Connor said:


> The score you hear is always going to come from the composer himself whatever the particulars are in it's realization.


Yes I was missing this point. AlexRuger too pointed this out.


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## SillyMidOn (Nov 21, 2015)

Alexandre Desplat says he does not have "a team" writing for him, followed by him jokingly saying "I'm not a Hollywood composer":


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## ghostnote (Nov 21, 2015)

amitnj29 said:


> Can you give one or two examples. How do you co-ordinate or how do you explain them what their roles are. What roles do you give them. I dont want to sound pushy, but I would really love to know.



I was speaking hypothetically. AFAIK, Hans is preparing Suites as early as he can to get a base frame. The way I would do this, once the footage is ready, is to give every assistant assignments to weave the material of the suites into their scenes and monitor it extensively so, at the end, it'll sound cohesive and like from one composer. Again, that's just how I'd do it, I don't claim to know anything. I probably talk too much...


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## Tanuj Tiku (Nov 21, 2015)

Meanwhile......these guys are writing great music, having a great time working on films with talented directors, working with some of the best musicians in the world, supporting the industry and it looks like even though they are all from different backgrounds, they respect each other and seem to be having a great time.


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## Dave Connor (Nov 21, 2015)

SillyMidOn said:


> Alexandre Desplat says he does not have "a team" writing for him, followed by him jokingly saying "I'm not a Hollywood composer":


Consider this, Jerry Goldsmith would call up people like Emil Richards and say, "Hey what have you got over there? I'm doing an unusual film called Planet of The Apes and I need some wild sounds for it." Emil would play and demonstrate numerous innovations of his and Jerry would pick out what he liked. Out comes one of his most genius scores. And Emil wasn't the only member of his team. On the other hand Jerry would hand out synth patches to his keyboard players at the orchestral sessions. His patches that he programed. These guys do what they have to to realize their vision. They draw on the talent around them. For centuries composers have met with players they were writing concertos for, to get ideas and advice on how to exploit the instrument's possibilities. The point is that it's silly to criticize someone's work methods when they're doing what they feel is necessary to do their job on the highest level. The results are what's important and I say again: Hired help cannot write like HZ anymore than they can write like JG.


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## SillyMidOn (Nov 22, 2015)

amitnj29 said:


> Hi all. Since long I wanted to ask this question. And I really want to know this.



Here is a really interesting piece by Michael Levine, who worked with HZ for a long time: I have to abridge it, as it is too long to post, but you can read all of it at the link here:

from http://www.soundtracksandtrailermusic.com/2013/07/hans-zimmer/


*WHY HANS ZIMMER GOT THE JOB YOU WANTED (AND YOU DIDN’T) *
_
BY http://www.soundtracksandtrailermusic.com/author/michael-levine/ (MICHAEL A. LEVINE) ON JULY 12, 2013


I worked for Hans Zimmer for about 8 years, 5 of which were in a studio at Remote Control, his facility in Santa Monica. Since leaving Remote, many people have said to me, usually in a conspiratorial tone of voice, things like this: Hans doesn’t really write his own music. The studios only give him work because he’s famous. He’s not a real musician. He just gets his clients drunk and all the work is done by guys in the back room. And so forth.

The underlying implication is that this underhanded semi-musician has Hollywood in his thrall due to Svengali like powers and maybe, someday, they’ll wake up and hire a “real” composer – like whoever is whispering to me.

No other composer seems to stir up this kind of ire – I never hear people say, “Yeah, that http://soundtracksandtrailermusic.com/2012/11/duel-of-the-fates/ (John Williams) only writes 12-line sketches and it’s up to his orchestrators to make it into real music!”

Well, I hate to break it to you, but Hans gets what he gets because…he deserves it.

Here is why:
_
*1) HANS IS A VISIONARY.*
_In films there is a process called “spotting” in which the composer and director decide what kind of music is needed where. Hans is the best spotter I’ve ever observed. He has an extraordinary sense of what will work. But long before spotting, he will spend weeks writing a suite which is the source of the musical themes of the film. Oddly, this isn’t really about music – it’s about the essence of what the story and the characters are. Film composer great Elmer Bernstein (Magnificent Seven, To Kill A Mockingbird) once said to me, “The dirty little secret is that we’re not musicians – we’re dramatists.” Hans is an outstanding dramatist.

But he also fearlessly pushes himself, challenging the limits of what is acceptable in our medium. In Batman: Dark Knight, long before we had footage of the film, Hans asked http://www.heitorpereira.com/biography.php (Heitor Pereira) (guitar), Martin Tillman (cello), and me (violin and tenor violin) to separately record some variations on a set of instructions involving 2 notes, C and D. This involved a fair amount of interpretation! For those who are familiar with classical music, it was John Cage meets http://www.philipglass.com/bio.php (Phil Glass). We each spent a week making hundreds of snippets. Then we had to listen to each other’s work and re-interpret that. The end result was a toolbox of sounds that provided Hans with the attitude of his score.

Later, he asked me to double every ostinato (repeating phrase) pattern the violins and violas played. There were a LOT. And a great studio orchestra had already played them all! I spent a week on what I considered an eccentric fool’s errand, providing score mixer, Alan Meyerson, with single, double, and triple pass versions of huge swaths of the score. Months later, I joked with him about how “useful” my efforts had been. Alan told me that, actually, they had turned out to be a crucial element of the score, that he often pulled out the orchestra and went to my performances when something needed to be edgy or raw.

The video below shows something from Man of Steel. Hans assembled a room full of great trap set drummers to play the same groove at the same time, each with tiny variations. Is it a stunt? Maybe. But does it deliver a sound you’ve never quite heard before? Definitely.
_
*2) HANS WORKS VERY, VERY HARD.*
_When working on a project – which is most of the time – Hans usually arrives at the studio at 11 am and then works until 3 or 4 in the morning. 7 days a week. For months. As the deadline approaches, everything else fades away. http://georiot.co/2OFD (Harry Gregson-Williams) once told me you could tell how far into a project Hans was by the length of his beard – at some point, he stops shaving.

His late-night hours provide welcome relief from badgering studios and the noise of running a business. They proved to be a challenge to my metabolism when I was getting up at 6 a.m. to go to yoga. Which leads me to a the title of another post, “Never Keep Different Hours Than Your Boss.” But I digress.

Hans is not as fast as his one-time assistant, Harry, or his current go-to arranger, http://soundtracksandtrailermusic.com/2012/09/lorne-balfe-hans-zimmer-amnesty-international/ (Lorne Balfe), both of whom work at superhuman speed. Hans once suggested that I worked too fast. I was puzzled at the time, but what I think he was really saying was that I needed to pay better attention to the little details that, cumulatively, make all the difference.
_
*3) HANS IS THE BEST FILM MUSIC PRODUCER IN THE BUSINESS.*
_We’re not talking about technical music skills. Hans is a so-so pianist and guitarist and his knowledge of academic theory is, by intention, limited. (I was once chastised while working on The Simpsons Movie for saying “lydian flat 7” instead of “the cartoon scale.”) He doesn’t read standard notation very well, either. But no one reads piano roll better than he does. [The piano roll is a page of a music computer program that displays the notes graphically.] Which gets to the heart of the matter: Hans knows what he needs to know to make it sound great.

Sometimes, that is the right musicians. Sometimes it is the right sample library. Sometimes it is the right room, or engineer, or recording technique, or mixing technique. All that counts is the end result. And it always sounds spectacular.
_
*4) HANS WORKS WITH GREAT PEOPLE.*
_Take a look at the composers who have worked for Hans: http://soundtracksandtrailermusic.com/2012/11/how-to-train-your-dragon-live/ (John Powell), Harry Gregson-Williams, Heitor Pereira, Henry Jackman, http://soundtracksandtrailermusic.com/2012/09/steve-jablonsky-arrival-to-earth/ (Steve Jablonsky), Lorne Balfe, http://www.trevormorris.com/bio-reg.html (Trevor Morris), Ramin Djawadi, Jeff Rona, Mark Mancina, Atli Örvarsson, Geoff Zanelli, http://www.blakeneely.com/ (Blake Neeley), http://www.firedearthmusic.com/zeitgeist-composer-stephen-hilton-his-hollywood-story/ (Stephen Hilton), Tom “Junkie XL” Holkenborg and on and on. And Alan Meyerson, his mixer. And Bob Badami and Ken Karman, his music editors. (Bob’s credits alone dwarf about everybody in the business). His great percussionists, Satnam Ramgotra and Ryeland Allison. Sound designers, Howard Scarr and Mel Wesson. Not to mention Steve Kofsky, his business partner. And all the tech whizzes he’s had over the years: Mark Wherry, Sam Estes, Pete Snell, Tom Broderick. Even his personal assistants – Andrew Zack, and later, Czar Russell – are remarkable.

Of course, the really amazing talents are the ones he works for: Chris Nolan, Gore Verbinski, Jim Brooks, Ron Howard, Jeffrey Katzenberg, and http://www.jbfilms.com/ (Jerry Bruckheimer). But he would never get the chance to work for them if he didn’t hold up his end of the bargain.
_
*.....*


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## givemenoughrope (Nov 22, 2015)

I think I read somewhere that he grows a beard by the end of every project. Sounds about right. 
A friend that is really successful in TV scoring told he is a notorious tweaker. I'd like to see how much programming/automation/CCs/recordings/overdubs, etc go into just one cue. I can only imagine it's exhausting.


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## Rctec (Nov 22, 2015)

Do I have to yet again re-post the "Peep Show" clip that perfectly explains how to craft a film score? ...is it a surprise that one of the characters is called "Super Hans"?

Anyway, here is the full, complete and authorities answer to the original poster's question:




Obvious, innit?

-Hz-


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## maclaine (Nov 22, 2015)

Rctec said:


> Do I have to yet again re-post the "Peep Show" clip that perfectly explains how to craft a film score? ...is it a surprise that one of the characters is called "Super Hans"?
> 
> Anyway, here is the full, complete and authorities answer to the original poster's question:
> 
> ...




Perfect. You've reminded me I need to re-watch this show soon.


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## Timberland70 (Nov 23, 2015)

Excellent


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## Dean (Nov 23, 2015)

Thats brilliant!Love Peepshow!
I wrote a song (for Disney) with Robert Webb singing anyway while recording when he looked at me I felt I was right there in an episode of Peepshow..very surreal moments. D


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## Kejero (Dec 14, 2015)

Rctec said:


> Do I have to yet again re-post the "Peep Show" clip that perfectly explains how to craft a film score? ...is it a surprise that one of the characters is called "Super Hans"?
> 
> Anyway, here is the full, complete and authorities answer to the original poster's question:
> 
> ...



Have you considered adding lyrics to your music for your tour? This clip clearly shows that it adds quite some intensity. And since you're not showing any images during the show, people are gonna be confused anyway... Film music without film... "What the heck? What's supposed to be happing during this bit? And now?" Lyrics could solve that. Think about it.


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## Rctec (Dec 14, 2015)

Good Idea!
...solved:


-HZ-


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## tack (Dec 14, 2015)

Two things that a cappella video taught me:

Gladiator is still one of my favorite soundtracks
Hans did The Ring
I'm not too surprised I didn't know about #2. I once looked up Hans' IMDb profile but my finger got tired from scrolling.


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## guydoingmusic (Dec 14, 2015)

"Oh right, now we're working - it's not ok for me to smoke my crack?!" 

It's not the assistants... it's the drugs that are writing the music.


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## tokatila (Dec 14, 2015)

tack said:


> Two things that a cappella video taught me:
> 
> Gladiator is still one of my favorite soundtracks
> Hans did The Ring
> I'm not too surprised I didn't know about #2. I once looked up Hans' IMDb profile but my finger got tired from scrolling.



I'm wondering how that video was originally found?

Maybe; at late night after a couple classes of chardonnay and maybe; after a heart-warming and especially successful modulation of the main theme; and just maybe; after Spitfire guys phoning in to tell the piano is now finally ready; and then and only then...

The phrase "Hans Zimmer is the Man" was entered in the YouTube search field.


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## ryanstrong (Dec 14, 2015)

tack said:


> *Hans did The Ring*


LOL I thought the same... I actually went to IMDB and was like... "for real??". Yep its for real.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 14, 2015)

SillyMidOn said:


> Great post.
> 
> Though "Zimmer" is German for "Room". Hans Room - a cool name? Maybe Mark Zuckerberg has a great name? Zuckerberg = Sugarmountain (in German).



What about a name like John Brook?


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## FredrikJonasson (Dec 14, 2015)

Another day, another Hanz Zimmer thread


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## josefsnabb (Dec 14, 2015)

tokatila said:


> I'm wondering how that video was originally found?
> Maybe; at late night after a couple classes of chardonnay and maybe; after a heart-warming and especially successful modulation of the main theme; and just maybe; after Spitfire guys phoning in to tell the piano is now finally ready; and then and only then...
> The phrase "Hans Zimmer is the Man" was entered in the YouTube search field.


 I actually saw Hans himself posting this video on his Official Facebook Page, earlier this year in August. (or does he has a "ghost-writer-FB-assistant"  I dunno)


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## rottoy (Dec 14, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> What about a name like John Brook?





SillyMidOn said:


> Great post.
> 
> Though "Zimmer" is German for "Room". Hans Room - a cool name? Maybe Mark Zuckerberg has a great name? Zuckerberg = Sugarmountain (in German).


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## Markus S (Dec 16, 2015)

Rctec said:


> Good Idea!
> ...solved:
> 
> 
> -HZ-




Wow, these guys are major cinephines.. like Michael Bolton :


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