# Tema d'Amore



## nadeama (Oct 9, 2005)

Hi everyone,

Here's a short piece that I wrote quite a few years ago, entitled "Tema d'Amore" (the good old "Love Theme" in plain english). This was the end credits piece for a short student film. The students didn't like the music and so didn't use it anywhere in the film. I lost the recording quite a while ago, but found the parts buried in a drawer recently and decided to mockup the end titles piece, using some of the libraries that I purchased this year and that I too rarely have the time to use.

The title is in Italian, because the piece is influenced by the style of some European composers, particularly the Italians Ennio Morricone, Luis Bacalov, and Nicola Piovani. So, it's a little different from the usual big Hollywood stuff, which I also love.

The libraries used: Kirk Hunter Solo Strings, Dan Dean Solo Trumpet, Art Vista Malmsjo, and PrimeSounds Session Strings (for a chamber strings sound).

Any comment and advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm pretty awful at mixing, so I'd be particularly interested in your comments on that aspect. Using GigaPulse I've tried to place all the instruments rather close to the mics to try to get a more intimate sound. Maybe that was a mistake and I everything should be "'wetter"? What do you think?

Here's the links to three different mixes. The main difference is that they use 3 different halls in GigaPulse. If you guys have time to listen to all three (the piece is very short) and let me know which version you like best, it would be great. I'll reveal the halls later on. 

Thanks in advance!

http://idisk.mac.com/nadeama-Public/Tema/Tema_Amore_1.mp3 (Tema d'Amore 1)

http://idisk.mac.com/nadeama-Public/Tema/Tema_Amore_2.mp3 (Tema d'Amore 2)

http://idisk.mac.com/nadeama-Public/Tema/Tema_Amore_3.mp3 (Tema d'Amore 3)


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## xylophonetic (Oct 10, 2005)

I'm not one of the professionals here on the board, but I don't think it should be much wetter. However I would lower the volume of the violin. I would also have used a string section instead of 1 violin, unless it's a real one. Single string instruments are very very hard to mimic and make sound real.

All by all, a nice composition  simple and effective.


cheers,

Thomas


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## PolarBear (Oct 10, 2005)

Liked 1 the best, 3 the second, and 2 the least.

I'd try to EQ the solo violin somehow in all 3 versions... it sounds unnatural to me, though the expressiveness is captured very well. But I guess that's something you never can completely fix, because it was already recorded that way.

PolarBear


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## gugliel (Oct 10, 2005)

sounds good to me. the violin sounded effective (#1). The trumpet sounded good too except for the portamento goes briefly electronic, sounding very odd. the underlying chamber strings didn't sound realistic to me. Reverb is fine in #1, sorry didn't listen to the others.


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## Herman Witkam (Oct 10, 2005)

I prefer hall #2. The instruments blend well in it. You might want to consider limiting the stereo image of the piano though.

#1 seemed too dry, and #3 had a strange seperation of the instruments.

Beautiful composition btw!

Thomas - why would one bring in a whole section in such an intimate piece?


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## synergy543 (Oct 10, 2005)

I agree with Herman I like mix number 2 the best and his suggestion of narrowing the piano image (within that mix) I agree with too. I think the reverb might be spreading it out? (as its narrower in the other mixes). Maybe run the piano thru a separate instance of the reverb with narrower spread? I also like the way the strings are spread and balanced in this mix. It sounds as if you used quite a lot of subtle CC control to make each line so expressive. You have very fluid legato lines particularly the violin. Did you do anything special on these?


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## nadeama (Oct 10, 2005)

Thanks guys for your comments, they are very much appreciated and very helpful.

I worked some more on the mix today, benefiting from some of your suggestions. I have a new version; if anyone has the time to let me know if they think it's an improvement, that would help me. This will probably be one of the slower tracks on a future demo CD, so I want to make it sound as good as I can.

Here's what I did in the new mix, which uses the hall #2 reverb :

1- Narrowed the stereo image of both the piano and the solo violin so as to place them better at the center of the stereo field.

2- Put all the instruments a bit more at the back of the hall (but not too much). I find that reverb can help mask some of the shortcomings of samples, and also I find it difficult to make a mix that "breathes" when I apply only very little reverb. I don't know if it's a difficulty inherent to working with samples, or if it's due to my shortcomings as a samplist/mixer. Anyway, I would particularly appreciate if anyone could tell me if they think the mix is too wet now. Thanks.

3- Layered in a bit of SISS with the Session Strings violins in the hope that it will make them sound a little more natural. How's the "synthiness" of the string ensemble?

4- Tried to improve some of the trumpet legato portamentos so that hopefully none of them stand out as sounding too synthy.

To answer your question Greg, yes I used some cc #11 data to get the lines to be more expressive. The Romantic Solo Violin from the Kirk Hunter Solo Strings is not too difficult to get to sound expressive, and it does legato lines quite naturally. One thing I did to help was to use some of the included slide patches, and lowering the volume level of the slides so they don't sound too "gipsy" like (which would have been very cheezy).

For the trumpet legato transitions, I used the "Fizbender" Kontakt script that we talked about over at NS, again lowering substantially the volume of the slides. It might not be quite as good as a true legato instrument (? la VSL), but I think the legato solo trumpet sounds better with it than without it.

Here's the link to the new mix. Thanks again guys!

http://idisk.mac.com/nadeama-Public/Tema/Tema_Amore_4.mp3 (Tema d'Amore 4)

P.S. Here are the GigaPulse halls that I used in the different mixes:

- Hall #1: Sonic Implants medium hall (comes with the recent SISS update)
- Hall #2: Sonic Implants large hall
- Hall #3: Default medium hall that comes with GigaStudio 3 Orchestra


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## synergy543 (Oct 10, 2005)

Martin, I don't think the new mix works as well as #2. It sounds as if the reverb channels were mixed together as I hear very little stereo ambience and more of a phase sound now. If you can find a way to center the piano (maybe narrow the piano stereo spread before sending to the reverb?) without losing the overall room ambience I think it would be much better.

In otherwords, even though an instrument has a narrow spread or is even mono, it should still resonate stereo ambience in the entire room.

Its possible you did do what I suggested above but the early reflections in the piano program itself are causing phase cancellations. In this case, you could try panning less to the center (leaving some stereo spread).

Also, I greatly prefered the stereo spread of the violin in Mix #2. It sounded much more open. If you can center a bit more without losing the overall openess of the sound do so, otherwise I'd keep the stereo spread.

Just my 2 cents


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## synergy543 (Oct 10, 2005)

nadeama said:


> I find that reverb can help mask some of the shortcomings of samples, and also I find it difficult to make a mix that "breathes" when I apply only very little reverb. I don't know if it's a difficulty inherent to working with samples, or if it's due to my shortcomings as a samplist/mixer.


Martin, you'll find a huge difference in each reverb program and I find that some that some just work inherently better with certain instruments than others. So often its as much a choice of which reverb you use as much as how you mix it in. And if your reverb gives you control over early reflection parameters be sure to spend some time exploring these as they play a crucial role in defining the ambience. However, if your working with convolution your only choice is to try different presets or rooms. But you are very right in your comment about making a mix that "breathes" by adding reverb. With the right combination they really sing together as a single instrument - the room is very much a resonant cavity as much as the body of a violin.


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## Herman Witkam (Oct 11, 2005)

Mix #4 sounds a little too ambient now. You might want to try adjusting the perspective dial in Gigapulse.


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## handz (Oct 11, 2005)

I like the piece - especially when trumpet comes into play, sounds really Moriconish. I also like sound of the trumpet. What I dont like is KH violin - that sounds like played in bathroom...but that is because bad engineering was used when it was recorded, so it is not your fault.:wink: 

Mix.2 sounds best for me.


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## xylophonetic (Oct 11, 2005)

Herman Witkam said:


> Thomas - why would one bring in a whole section in such an intimate piece?



Like said:


> ...unless it's a real one. Single string instruments are very very hard to mimic and make sound real.


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## Herman Witkam (Oct 11, 2005)

thomastorfs said:


> ..unless it's a real one. Single string instruments are very very hard to mimic and make sound real.



I'm sorry, but it's nonsense to avoid solo string instrument just because they're hard to sample. :roll:


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## nadeama (Oct 11, 2005)

Hi guys,

Well, I listened to my latest mix again today with refreshed ears, and it's really god-awful. I think I'm going to take a break from this for a day or two (plus I have other things to do), and I might come back to it with a better perspective.

Not to sound pretentious or anything, but as far as the solo violin goes, it might not be the best from a sound-engineering standpoint, but I thought I did a decent simulation as far as expressiveness and realism are concerned.  But it's true that nothing can replace a good instrumentalist (when you have the budget to hire one).

If anyone has time and still feel generous enough to share their comments, here's another very short cue (25 seconds) from the same score. I think the mix is better in this one, but what the hell do I know. I really gotta get better at this mixing business. 

Thanks again!

Here's the new piece:

http://idisk.mac.com/nadeama-Public/Tema/Interlude.mp3 (Interlude)


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## Joel S (Oct 23, 2005)

I liked that 26 second passage. I come to think of Ryuichi Sakamoto. The room ambience of the piano sounds a bit different from the orchestra's ambience, maybe that could be adjusted.


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## synergy543 (Oct 23, 2005)

Hi Martin, you have a very warm ambience that's sort of "Satie-esque". However, I would be curious to try some different reverb programs. I would look for something that sounds more "open" as the current one has sort of a "boxy" sound. It helps when selecting reverb to just monitor the reverb wet sound by itself as this will tell you a great deal about the reverb sound which greatly affects the overall sound. And don't be afraid to try adding some predelay to gain clarity.

I get the feeling you want to retain an intimate reverb feel. If you want to experiment, here's a suggestion to try: If you have Altiverb, try Empire Hall Esterhazy st>st 5.85M It is still relatively small but gives excellent clarity with piano. 

I'm curious to know how this would affect the feel of your sound. I "think" the orchestration and performance would keep the same feel but possibly the reverb sound you already have is an integral part of the character. If you do try, please let us hear the results.


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