# Looking for a physical fader controller for CCs...



## jononotbono (Oct 6, 2015)

Hi,

So I'm looking for a physical Fader Controller with the intention to control CCs with my Sample Libraries. I'm using Cubase Pro 8 as my main DAW.

I am just wondering what are good options and what people use to do this. After watching the Junkie XL Video series I immediately saw the merit in using a JLCooper Fader Master Professional as there are many Faders and they are Loooong in size which would be great for detailed Automation etc. The cost of it is really high though and at this moment of time I'd rather spend my money on other things (Albion One and a new Keyboard Controller for example). Perhaps a future buy if I can find a secondhand one.

I have also looked at the Korg NanoKontrol 2 as I have noticed a few people using it. Does this do the job? Looks like it costs, cheap. But it has enough little faders providing it works (I would need fader control for CCs: Dynamics, Expression, Vibrato, Volume at least)

Just wondering if anyone could recommend something for this job and what your feelings are with my two suggestions. There's a lot of stuff out there...

Thanks for any help

Jono


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## jononotbono (Oct 6, 2015)

I should add, I have been trying Lemur Apps with my iPad to control CCs but it just doesn't feel as good as riding, for example, a Modwheel. The iPad is fantastic for DAW control but using a TouchScreen for controlling CCs feels odd...


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## LondonMike (Oct 6, 2015)

I've been using nanokontrol 2 and it does the job for me. It's very easy to program.
There is an issue with mac/logic core midi which means I have to launch logic and then plug the nano in. A bit of a pain but you may not get that with Cubase, not sure.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 6, 2015)

Guy's weekly "I use an Avid Artist with Cubase Pro 8 via Quick Controls and it's great - touch sensitive motorized faders all clearly dynamically labelled, it's the only sane solution in town" post. Guy's weekly caveat - "you have to use the automation lanes in the project pane". Guy's weekly caveat to the caveat - "I got over the caveat, it's fine".


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## apessino (Oct 6, 2015)

I do the same thing, Guy - it is fantastic. I love that I don't even need to turn on the Artist Mix unless I need it. Sometimes I turn it on during playback, it just wakes up and starts tracking and banking, freaking awesome.


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## jononotbono (Oct 6, 2015)

I couldn't afford an Artist Mix at the minute. Perhaps in the future...


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## apessino (Oct 6, 2015)

Have you considered a CC121? I use one alongside the Artist Mix - integration with Cubase is perfect and it gives you transport, useful shortcuts for common track operations (the buttons to open the channel properties and the VST Instrument are especially essential to me), AI controllers for plugins, easy to configure buttons you can use for all kinds of stuff... but only one fader (albeit a motorized one, of decent if not spectacular quality).


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## DynamicK (Oct 6, 2015)

jononotbono said:


> I should add, I have been trying Lemur Apps with my iPad to control CCs but it just doesn't feel as good as riding, for example, a Modwheel. The iPad is fantastic for DAW control but using a TouchScreen for controlling CCs feels odd...


I've also been using a *Lemur App* with a XY Pad, which is fine for slow changes to CCs. However when I need to have fast changes I use one of the faders on my VMK 176. I found that the Lemur controller just wasn't responsive enough. I'd love to have the Avid, but way out of my budget. The *Behringer BCF 2000* and *X-Touch* look promising


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## jononotbono (Oct 6, 2015)

I have considered the Steinberg CC121 in the past but I actually own and use all the Steinberg CMCs (excluding the useless CMC-FD) and use them in combination with an iPad Air 2 and Lemur (using templates from Arts Unmuted and Midi Kinetics) so the only thing I don't have is the motorised fader. I want multiple faders and not fussed about them being Motorised (for CC control). Thanks for the suggestion though!


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## Felipe Opazo (Oct 6, 2015)

If you also need a new keyboard, take a look at the Nektar Panorama P6, i got the P1 (version without keyboard) a couple weeks ago and the integration with Logic X is great! You can also easily control all your orchestral sample libraries with it. I'll do a video review once i finish my nomad studio life in 2 weeks or so (waiting for a new desk) .


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## chimuelo (Oct 6, 2015)

Dude please read up about the the Behringer BCF 2000.

Thete are so many ways to use it.
I bought used for 100 dollars 6 years ago and its the best money I ever spent.
Built like a Tank.
That was Ulli B"s finest idea to date.

Use it to record edit mix live or playback.
Flawless piece of kit.


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## Rctec (Oct 6, 2015)

...Id rather have a crappy keyboard (actually, they're all pretty bad) than not a great feeling fader unit.


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## KEnK (Oct 6, 2015)

Love my nanocontrol!
I've learned to be pretty good at moving 3 and even 4 faders simultaneously
(for instruments like Sample Modeling and such)

k


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 7, 2015)

I just got an AKAI MIDI Mix that I am trying out and am somewhat liking. I wish the faders had a longer throw but they feel decent. I have so far assigned cc11 cc7 cc1 cc15 for sordino for HS, and cc22 which toggles between monophonic and polyphonic on the HS legato patches (just discovered this after re-reading the manual.)


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## muk (Oct 7, 2015)

Rctec said:


> ...Id rather have a crappy keyboard (actually, they're all pretty bad)



Digital pianos are a solution. There is still a stark difference to a real piano of course, but their keybeds (at least those of the good ones) are a different class than all of those Fatar keybeds. No knobs and faders, of course, or even a modwheel. But that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make for a good keybed.

About the faders: the presonus faderport would have been a pretty great solution. Too bad it won't write cc data, but only automation! There is a workaround for Cubase, but it looks complex and tedious to set up.


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## ed buller (Oct 7, 2015)

Buy a fadermaster....friend for life and the good people at JL are terrific.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JLCooper-FaderMaster-Professional-Midi-Controller-/281818970792?hash=item419db83aa8


e


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## Polarity (Oct 7, 2015)

Korg nanoKontrol2 is more than meets the eye... it can seem cheap but it works pretty good.
I have got two of them


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## jononotbono (Oct 7, 2015)

Rctec said:


> ...Id rather have a crappy keyboard (actually, they're all pretty bad) than not a great feeling fader unit.



I'm actually saving for a Doepfer LMK4+ after I noticed so many professionals using them (sorry for copying you all! Not Musically! haha) because I am sick of really bad Keyboard Controllers (the feel, bad Velocity sensitivity, faders that just jump all over the place, knobs that fall off). I know in my heart of hearts I am going to have to buy a Fader Master because every cheap fader I have used so far has given vile results! Haha!


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## jononotbono (Oct 7, 2015)

Thanks for everyone's advice, as usual, VI Control is Musical Gold mine...


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## chimuelo (Oct 7, 2015)

JL Cooper is top shelf gear.

I have their ancient MIDI Patch Bay still working, the JC Cooper Lighting desk and most recently their Surround Panner which really helped me understand Surround Mixing, not using it much but I wanted to be the first Surround Sound Band in Vegas which failed miserably.
Can't win if you don't go though....

If it's a single fader you really require I'd have to 2nd the JL Cooper stuff.
25 years for a MIDI Patchbay and Merlin style lighting desk tends to be a consideration.


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## jononotbono (Oct 7, 2015)

chimuelo said:


> JL Cooper is top shelf gear.
> 
> I have their ancient MIDI Patch Bay still working, the JC Cooper Lighting desk and most recently their Surround Panner which really helped me understand Surround Mixing, not using it much but I wanted to be the first Surround Sound Band in Vegas which failed miserably.
> Can't win if you don't go though....
> ...



The price of the JLC Fader Master Pro (New) is what is out of reach for me but Ed Buller has shared a link whereby a secondhand one is so much more in reach and I'd rather buy quality. I have never seen one secondhand before!

On another note, I went to Vegas last year for the first time. I Loved it (shouldn't have because I don't Gamble Money)! Maybe next time I'll see the Hoover Dam - but then again, I have seen one before... haha!


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## chimuelo (Oct 7, 2015)

If that falls through check out a BCF.
Ive got custom fader caps on mine since 100mm is standard kit.
Cooper is the shizzle though and your great grand children will enjoy it.

Next time your in Vegas grab the Weekly entertainment guide at 7/11 to see some of the finest live entertainment.
The strip has great shows but Musicians are straddled to the format.
So unless you enjoy the guided Disney tour hit the off strip action.
The Skin Pool at the Palms is the most decadent display of fine trim on Earth.
Just sit at the half indoor half outdoor bar and be astonished at the beautiful spermaids.......ooops......I meant mermaids.
Also notice the beautiful waittail cocktresses.........ooops..........messed up again.
I meant cocktail waittresses.


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## mc_deli (Oct 11, 2015)

MPD232 somewhere between the BCF and midimix... with pads


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## JT3_Jon (Oct 11, 2015)

Another option is the Novation Zero. Its plastic, but its well made. One feature I love is the updating display which switches to show what you are using but just as importantly is their "preview" button which allows you to see what you you have programmed to your knobs / sliders without actually writing any automation. I always forget what my sliders are mapped to (which changes depending on what mapping I have open and what I want to control) so this is a great feature. It also has full length faders, which in my opinion is important as it gives you more distance for the faders, making small moves easier to perform. 

Overall the Zero works well in my studio, though if it broke I would probably try the Nektar one for its cubase integration (dont like automap at all). The only thing missing is the faders are not motorized. Are they Motorized in the JLC? If not why does that one cost so much more?


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## jononotbono (Oct 12, 2015)

ed buller said:


> Buy a fadermaster....friend for life and the good people at JL are terrific.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JLCooper-FaderMaster-Professional-Midi-Controller-/281818970792?hash=item419db83aa8
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the link. I placed a bid and have just won the Fader Master. 

So excited!

And thank you to everyone for your advice...


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## Harry (Oct 12, 2015)

Panorama P1 - made for Cubase
http://www.nektartech.com/Products/Panorama-P1

*** Oooops, too late  ***


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## jononotbono (Oct 12, 2015)

Harry said:


> Panorama P1 - made for Cubase
> http://www.nektartech.com/Products/Panorama-P1
> 
> *** Oooops, too late  ***


Haha! It's always great to know what's out there!


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## jononotbono (Oct 19, 2015)

The Fadermaster Pro has arrived. Built like a tank and very excited to learn how to use it. Very happy I didn't settle for something less!


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 19, 2015)

jononotbono said:


> The Fadermaster Pro has arrived. Built like a tank and very excited to learn how to use it. Very happy I didn't settle for something less!



They are great. My only concern would be support and repairs as there are differing reports on the health of the JL Cooper company.


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 19, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> I just got an AKAI MIDI Mix that I am trying out and am somewhat liking. I wish the faders had a longer throw but they feel decent. I have so far assigned cc11 cc7 cc1 cc15 for sordino for HS, and cc22 which toggles between monophonic and polyphonic on the HS legato patches (just discovered this after re-reading the manual.)



I returned it. Just not digging the faders.


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## jononotbono (Oct 19, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> They are great. My only concern would be support and repairs as there are differing reports on the health of the JL Cooper company.



I shall find out if there are any concerns because one of the plastic faders needs replacing (probably why I got it for such a great deal). So I will e-mail JLC and see how easy/hard it is to get a replacement part.


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## synthpunk (Oct 19, 2015)

Great price! Did you need to clean it up ? Caig Fader Cleaner works well if the faders are a little stiff and dirty.



jononotbono said:


> Thank you so much for the link. I placed a bid and have just won the Fader Master.
> 
> So excited!
> 
> And thank you to everyone for your advice...


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## jononotbono (Oct 19, 2015)

aesthete said:


> Great price! Did you need to clean it up ? Caig Fader Cleaner works well if thise faders are a little stiff and dirty.


I thought I would have to but when it arrived it was clean. I'll bear Caig Fader Cleaner in mind for the future though! I just need to replace the missing Plastic Fader bit and it'll be as good as new!


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## Marius Masalar (Oct 19, 2015)

If you're a StudioOne user there's also the new PreSonus CS18A:

http://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-CS18AI

I had the opportunity to play with one at IMSTA Festa this weekend in Toronto and came away very impressed with the feel and workflow. Really nice unit.


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## synthpunk (Oct 19, 2015)

Man, how cool would something like this for Logic be?



Marius Masalar said:


> If you're a StudioOne user there's also the new PreSonus CS18A:
> 
> http://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-CS18AI
> 
> I had the opportunity to play with one at IMSTA Festa this weekend in Toronto and came away very impressed with the feel and workflow. Really nice unit.


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## Marius Masalar (Oct 19, 2015)

Tell me about it. Unfortunately Apple has no real incentive to make one.


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## jononotbono (Oct 19, 2015)

Looks good. I use Cubase so no good for me but I can see the appeal if you are a StudioOne user. I would love Steinberg's Nuage but at that price there's not a chance of that happening!


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 19, 2015)

I was grumbling the other day behind a D Command with Pro Tools that it is significantly slower to work with than an Artist Mix. It's a fundamental problem that a lot of consoles built round DAWs tend to make is they want to make the console the leader, which the DAW follows. I just don't work that way, never will in either composition or sound post - only live mixing (obviously). I feel like I'm wearing boxing gloves whenever I'm at a console that doesn't follow my every action at the DAW. Does the Nuage (which I've never used) or that Presonus desk follow the DAW, out of interest? I think it's a EuCon thing.


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## jononotbono (Oct 19, 2015)

I have never used Nuage only watched their online Videos on it. It is supposed to have incredibly tight integration with Cubase and Nuendo. It's hugely expensive but looks great! I'll be sticking with an iPad (maybe a couple) and Lemur for DAW Control and now my Fadermaster Pro for Midi Automation for quite some time now!


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## synthpunk (Oct 19, 2015)

I would love a SSL Nucleus 



jononotbono said:


> Looks good. I use Cubase so no good for me but I can see the appeal if you are a StudioOne user. I would love Steinberg's Nuage but at that price there's not a chance of that happening!


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## Shubus (Oct 21, 2015)

Something to consider when buying one of these MIDI control surfaces is does it require a MIDI cable connection or can it connect via USB. I have finally gotten rid of all my MIDI cables and made the switch so that all my external controllers work via MDI to USB converters for my ancient devices which are only MIDI cable. Life is much simpler now. I ended up with the Mackie Control Universal Pro which I picked up for less than half price on eBay. With these motorized faders, there's no looking back.


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 21, 2015)

The problem is that it can't do MIDI CCs region based MIDI Draw, only host automation and I do a lot more of the former than the latter.


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## Shubus (Oct 22, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> The problem is that it can't do MIDI CCs region based MIDI Draw, only host automation and I do a lot more of the former than the latter.


The ability to MIDI CC's based on region based MIDI Draw is indeed important....I have ended up doing that with a fader on keyboard since the Mackie can't handle it. Seems there is always a "gotcha".


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## ptsmith (Oct 24, 2015)

This thread got me jonesing for a controller. The CM Labs MotorMix looks very promising, and can be had for pretty cheap. But it's old. I see references to it dated 9 years ago, and maybe it's older than that: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug04/articles/cmlabs.htm

I'm not very good at MIDI. Can someone look at the MIDI data on page 13 and tell if this might work ok with Cubase: http://stash.reaper.fm/12357/MotorMix V 1.2 Developer pkg3.pdf


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## jononotbono (Oct 24, 2015)

ptsmith said:


> This thread got me jonesing for a controller. The CM Labs MotorMix looks very promising, and can be had for pretty cheap. But it's old. I see references to it dated 9 years ago, and maybe it's older than that: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug04/articles/cmlabs.htm
> 
> I'm not very good at MIDI. Can someone look at the MIDI data on page 13 and tell if this might work ok with Cubase: http://stash.reaper.fm/12357/MotorMix V 1.2 Developer pkg3.pdf



Haha. Sorry about that.


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## emasters (Oct 24, 2015)

Similar to EastWest Lurker, I purchased an Akai MIDImix last week. I already have a motorized-fader Mackie MCU for mixing/DAW control. But wanted something that could quickly and easily assign MIDI CC's for use with samplers/instruments/etc. This actually works well and is relatively inexpensive. You create a CC layout template on the computer, save it to the controller and/or a file for quick recall later. The build quality is solid, and I tested all the faders and knobs -- they send min/max CC correctly. I also assigned the three banks of buttons to MIDI note on/off messages, which works well for key-switching on samplers. And power/MIDI connection is via USB. It's clearly not a high-end solution. But for an inexpensive controller, to quickly assign physical sliders, knobs and buttons to software instruments, it works surprisingly well.


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 25, 2015)

emasters said:


> Similar to EastWest Lurker, I purchased an Akai MIDImix last week. I already have a motorized-fader Mackie MCU for mixing/DAW control. But wanted something that could quickly and easily assign MIDI CC's for use with samplers/instruments/etc. This actually works well and is relatively inexpensive. You create a CC layout template on the computer, save it to the controller and/or a file for quick recall later. The build quality is solid, and I tested all the faders and knobs -- they send min/max CC correctly. I also assigned the three banks of buttons to MIDI note on/off messages, which works well for key-switching on samplers. And power/MIDI connection is via USB. It's clearly not a high-end solution. But for an inexpensive controller, to quickly assign physical sliders, knobs and buttons to software instruments, it works surprisingly well.



I returned it. The faders just didn't feel good enough or have a long enough throw for me.


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## ptsmith (Oct 26, 2015)

jononotbono said:


> Haha. Sorry about that.


Well you didn't cost me too money.  I found one on ebay for $150. They were over a grand new, so the fact that they're so cheap used worries me a bit.

I also found info from Cubase that indicates it will recognize it. Now if I can just figure out how to implement it. Like I mentioned, I'm not very MIDI savvy.


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## jononotbono (Oct 26, 2015)

What did you get?


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## ptsmith (Oct 26, 2015)

A CM Labs MotorMix: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug04/articles/cmlabs.htm


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## jononotbono (Nov 3, 2015)

Well hopefully that is working for you (I have never tried one). 

Since making this Thread, I have been crazily busy trying to get my Music Lab renovated and decorated and today I have finally been able to plug the Fadermaster Pro in and try it out for the first time. I absolutely love it. Having just read the manual, it's really easy to program the faders. I also love the Null button, being able to position the Fader at exactly where I want without sending Midi info and then turning the Null button off to write Automation! I can even control my Alesis Quadraverb 2 with it! This is brilliant. Coupled up with finally being able to play with Albion One, it's like Christmas has come early for me!


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