# An Appreciation of LASS



## Jack Weaver (Jan 25, 2011)

Yes, I know that LASS has been mostly praised since it came out in this forum- and actually even before it was released. I don't mean to be redundant but continuing adulation is warranted again. 

The developer and company have really taken it to new heights. Witness the Scorecast NAMM videos on the thread here in the forum. Previously we've been given ART and AutoArranger, but now all of the new features slated to come out in v1.6 move the bar higher again. All of these significantly advance the sound and usefulness of the existing sample set. 

Congrats Andrew & crew, you've gone a long ways to enhancing my investment in your product. Thank you. 

.


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## dcoscina (Jan 25, 2011)

I just a monster cue with LASS and it rocked the house. Totally realistic and worked smoothly with no glitches. Love it!


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## Thonex (Jan 25, 2011)

Thanks guys... we all appreciate your support over here at audiobro land o-[][]-o 

It's an ambitious upgrade, but we think the end users will get a lot of use out of it when the update comes out.

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## dcoscina (Jan 25, 2011)

i really like the fact that it marries so well with VSL or Project SAM. Until we get LA Scoring Brass and Winds, it's nice that LASS plays nice in the sandbox with the other kids.


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 25, 2011)

The new update looks fantastic on the Scorecast video, but looking forward to the tutorials without NAMMSound(TM)!

Have to say I feel less and less like I'll ever get HS. LASS seems to get better and better all the time, and it just WORKS - so playable, no glitches, it runs on a laptop even. A big +1 of praise to the Audiobro folks.


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## stevenson-again (Jan 25, 2011)

+ several as well.

it's so expressive and really easy to use. i would vote LASS programming to become an industry standard.


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## muziksculp (Jan 25, 2011)

Hi,

I finally purchased LASS o/~ 

The only down-side is I won't be installing LASS until I move to my new studio, and new House ! I hope to have my new studio set-up by mid-May. Lots of planning at this phase. 

I'm eagerly looking forward to install and use LASS. My studio is a big mess at this time. 

Cheers,

Muziksculp


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 25, 2011)

dcoscina @ Tue Jan 25 said:


> Until we get LA Scoring Brass and Winds...



Please. Please please. And don't make us wait too long.

That's my one real complaint about Audiobro, you haven't figured out a way to clone yourselves so you can have more new libraries out.


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## Jack Weaver (Jan 25, 2011)

Mr. Mike Connelly said:


> you haven't figured out a way to clone yourselves so you can have more new libraries out.



While it's true that audioBro doesn't have the largest staff in the biz they are certainly no longer a one man shop.

And that's good to see because there are more than a few of us out here who are constantly bemoaning the lack of a LASS-type brass library. It's also good that they wouldn't have to hire as many players to do it as they would a string library. But I'll bet getting just the right players (a major key to a brass library) could cost a pretty penny. 

The word I've come up with recently that encapsulates the needed sound of a great brass library is, 'Lively'. I think that Andrew & crew could do something like this. I did enjoy recent snippets of the Spitfire Brass, yet found them just a tad too acoustically chaotic - but did like their violent nature. A brass section has to sound like it has just enough control so that it doesn't explode - always skillfully withholding the potential to combust. 
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## synthetic (Jan 25, 2011)

Ashermusic @ Tue Jan 25 said:


> I have had 2 well known composers who were potential buyers (and 1 who bought it but is not using it) in the last two weeks tell me that they were tempted by LASS but could not live with the intonation issues.



The people's patriot. So you praised LASS somewhere else and that makes up for throwing them under the bus here? Sorry, it didn't work -- you still look like an ass, and you do every time you show up in a LASS thread and drop a turd like that. Which is every. single. LASS thread.

Were they using the latest update, pitch spread down, etc? Or just going off your demo system? 

We get it. You don't like them. The VSL strings are thataway. They are perfectly in tune. 

Deliriously happy user here. It just sings off of my tracks, a lovely sounding instrument. And it keeps getting better with each update.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 25, 2011)

synthetic @ Tue Jan 25 said:


> Ashermusic @ Tue Jan 25 said:
> 
> 
> > I have had 2 well known composers who were potential buyers (and 1 who bought it but is not using it) in the last two weeks tell me that they were tempted by LASS but could not live with the intonation issues.
> ...



Predictable response from you. 

I like LASS and use it for certain things. When the new version comes I will probably use it more. I prefer them to VSL.

There are some libraries I prefer for OTHER things, particularly for writing "pretty", which is mostly what I get hired for. 

Glad to hear they work for you as they are. That does not take away from the truth of what I wrote. One of the composers I mentioned told Andrew exactly what I wrote at NAMM, which Andrew will confirm if asked I bet.

You do not have to agree but it would be nice if just for once you did not attack me for writing what I believe to be true.

It would also be nice if a moderator would admonish you for continuously doing that.


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## Pochflyboy (Jan 25, 2011)

Hijacking this thread back to what it was....

thanks much Andrew and Sebastian for the EXCELLENT work. Its nice to have something that just works. Even better to see continuous practical innovation. I sit on the edge of my VI seat waiting....

-Joe


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## José Herring (Jan 25, 2011)

I'm especially proud of Andrew for tackling the task of LASS and succeeding beyond all expectation. I'm extremely excited to get LASS LS when it comes out, and even more excited that he's working on a LASS 2 building upon the experience of the successful LASS line. 

I can attest that I have recommended LASS to several top names in the industry and they've all been overjoyed with the purchase. It's become a staple in the arsenal of more than a few top flight film and TV composers.

Is it a perfect product? Who knows, is it a quantum leap (pun intended) compared to what was available before? I believe so.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 25, 2011)

josejherring @ Tue Jan 25 said:


> It's become a staple in the arsenal of more than a few top flight film and TV composers.



As well it deserves to be. It is an outstanding library. It is not a perfect library, nor are there any. Like many of them, it has some great strengths and some weaknesses.

If someone is planning to compose a lot of action cures, IMHO, LASS should be at the top of the list. The sound is lively, the short articulations great, the wood is there, the ART script brilliant, the workflow is powerful and flexible.

If one is planning to write a lot of pretty and lush slower cues where the tuning can be very exposed, IMHO, it should not be at the top of the list.

That is my opinion. Others here have spoken disparagingly of aspects of others string libraries or even in their entirety like DVZ Strings, Hollywood Strings, VSL strings, Kirk Hunter Strings, etc. and that is OK but if I dare to criticize one specific aspect of LASS, I am the bad guy?


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## dcoscina (Jan 26, 2011)

I think the only thing I'm not crazy about is the portamento. But I use LASS with legato only and have gotten amazing results. Perhaps the other library that Jay may have eluded to is easier to get a lush sound but I really do not like its short articulations in the least. Too mushy. LASS has that bite and presence that I hear when I'm on the floor with a live group. THAT's the sound I want to convey in my work and my client's thus far haven't complained one darned bit.


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## jamwerks (Jan 26, 2011)

So are there still intonation issues? String wise I’m still 100% VSL, but am more and more interested in LASS. But I’m wondering if people are finding that there are enough different short note articulations with LASS. 

For example, in VSL (SE+) there are: stacc, detache short & detache (normal).

In LASS the auto div, would save some time, and the new features in the video, especially the stage positioning, looks very interesting. /\~O


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## JohnG (Jan 26, 2011)

I am very surprised to see anyone writing about intonation issues in LASS at this stage. The very first release had problems, but subsequent (free) updates cleaned up the pitchiness and the library is satisfactory to my ears at this point. 

The library retains a natural variation in pitch that is most noticeable in the divisi, but that can actually enhance the character of the sound. Besides, if one particular division is not exactly what one wants in a particular passage, one can substitute another one.

For me, intonation is no longer an issue in LASS and hasn't been for a very long time.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 26, 2011)

I was going to say.


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## chimuelo (Jan 26, 2011)

MAN OR MYTH..............................THONEX.


I gambled and won.
I am sure many guys are happy w/ thier various string instruments, but I have waited for a string instrument that can be used in realtime inside of a hardware project window, and LASS is the one for me. NCW samples make it a piece of cake.
4 x instrument banks in Kontakt 4.2 using 4 x MIDI Channels is like having a massive Rompler style workstation, only with realistic articulations. And in realtime.
Even in a studio session where some ad manager pretends to be a producer during a jingle, I can summon any sound I have instantly.
So Kontakt 4.2 and LASS are just where it's at 4 me.

I have zero tolerance for latency compensation or load times.
I also have no need for Poodles and Chihuahuas.
LASS is a fierce predator, and my Dogs All Hunt.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 26, 2011)

JohnG @ Wed Jan 26 said:


> I am very surprised to see anyone writing about intonation issues in LASS at this stage. The very first release had problems, but subsequent (free) updates cleaned up the pitchiness and the library is satisfactory to my ears at this point.
> 
> The library retains a natural variation in pitch that is most noticeable in the divisi, but that can actually enhance the character of the sound. Besides, if one particular division is not exactly what one wants in a particular passage, one can substitute another one.
> 
> For me, intonation is no longer an issue in LASS and hasn't been for a very long time.



It didn't bother me much either, but it did bother a couple of people I recommended it to. People have different tolerances for different things. I am certainly not trying to dissuade anyone form buying LASS. I always tell people it is a library worth serious consideration.

Whenever "California Dreaming" comes on the radio, the flute solo sounds so consistently sharp to me that I have to turn down the radio for its duration. And yet it has sold millions of copies and been a beloved record for 45 years.


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## Frederick Russ (Jan 26, 2011)

No need to admonish anyone Jay. I'm just asking you and Jeff to settle your personal differences offline. Please. 

Back on topic: Andrew's poly legato has revolutionized sampling imo - seems even VSL borrowed the idea and I've seen the concept show up with Tonehammer Requiem as well.


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## midphase (Jan 26, 2011)

JohnG @ Wed Jan 26 said:


> I am very surprised to see anyone writing about intonation issues in LASS at this stage [...] For me, intonation is no longer an issue in LASS and hasn't been for a very long time.



+1...no problems with tuning here. If there are, one has to really go look for them in unusual places (like for example the super high range of the solo cello), and even then it's really not an issue once it's in the mix.

I think what some people might miss is that the sections are really supposed to be used together, and when they are they sound really rich and lush.


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## rJames (Jan 26, 2011)

Not kidding. LASS changed my life.


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## nickhmusic (Jan 27, 2011)

LASS changed my approach - and I applaud it for that. 

There is a little finessing here and there in order to make it suit your particular style or for a specific sound - but that is largely due to the fact that there are so many instruments and articulations and possibilities for subtle changes through CC editing.

I was sold on LASS initially due to its characterful sound in the short articulations and its legatos, but I must also say that I would now include the top notch customer support over at Audiobro.

Helpful, friendly and solid customer support is a rare thing these days. 

Of course I blame Andrew for making it obviously because I now sleep so erratically due to my need to compose with LASS - but that's another issue entirely. :wink:


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## dcoscina (Jan 27, 2011)

I did this rhythmic ostinato in my violin part that I copy/pasted from the piano guide track and I unknowingly forgot to filter out the pedal messages so it was activating the Art script. Well, wouldn't you know it- that Art rhythm actually added extra life to my already awesome (kidding) rhythmic figure so I kept it and was delighted at how much better it sounded with LASS doing its thing. 

I think the real beauty of LASS is that it works! I can throw a ton of tracks down and not worry about this or that. I do have that problem with other similar themed libraries so even if those others might sound more "lush", if I cannot friggin use it, than all the lushness means squat to me. Truthfully, I use 80% of what LASS offers on a daily basis. I use the other string lib 25% if not less but definitely very sparingly because it's just not optimized as well for my modest system.


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## stevenson-again (Jan 27, 2011)

> I do have that problem with other similar themed libraries so even if those others might sound more "lush", if I cannot friggin use it, than all the lushness means squat to me.



i hear you bro.


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## dcoscina (Jan 27, 2011)

I'd actually be scared if AudioBro did complete the orchestra with LA Brass, Winds and Percussion. 

Spitfire might be the Rolls Royce but Andrew's library would be a Porsche and that's bloody well fine with me!


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 27, 2011)

I do find occasional notes that are out of tune enough to bug me even with the latest versions. Almost always in the higher registers (viola or cello). I'm using the divisis playing together, so I could probably hide some of them by finding which of the divisis is bugging me and ducking one of the splits a bit on the bad note.

They are definitely few enough that you'll only find them if just happen to use a certain note at a certain dynamic (and some may have the issue in the legato transition, so it may even be only when playing legato from another specific note).

I assume the LASS guys got tired of going back and making pitch fixes and hopefully cracked the whip harder on the Sordino sessions (and any future libraries).


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## germancomponist (Jan 27, 2011)

About this tuning thing: In Kontakt sampler it will take 30 sekunds to tune a sample in the mapping editor, then save the tuned version of the instrument and...., done.


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## rJames (Jan 27, 2011)

germancomponist @ Thu Jan 27 said:


> About this tuning thing: In Kontakt sampler it will take 30 sekunds to tune a sample in the mapping editor, then save the tuned version of the instrument and...., done.



Usually it is just part of the sample. The attack or one of the strings goes wild. I don't think that is fixable in Kontakt.

If it was purely tuning, AudioBro has already implemented a note by note tuner into the interface.


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## guydoingmusic (Jan 27, 2011)

Why is it on forums... you see the same cranky people argue over the dumbest issues known to man...? Pretty incredible how irritable people get on here! I'm just saying! :roll: 

Anyways...

A +1 to happiness with the LASS library. Programming is SO much easier now. Worth every penny spent.

/brad


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## stevenson-again (Jan 27, 2011)

> Usually it is just part of the sample. The attack or one of the strings goes wild. I don't think that is fixable in Kontakt.
> 
> If it was purely tuning, AudioBro has already implemented a note by note tuner into the interface.



yes that's right. there are a few notes like that. if it had been a live recording i would have gone back for another take, but i can live with it. and when you consider that the approach was deliberately to leave some character and dirt in the samples then it is not unexpected.

LASS is over-whelmingly brilliant and these little things are forgiven for what they are - quirks. it's just so easy to create emotive lines and clear textures. it's simple yet flexible and sounds so alive after its been treated right.


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## guydoingmusic (Jan 27, 2011)

To add my 2 cents to the tuning discussion... here goes.

The tuning has never bothered me. To me, it adds a "real" sound to the section a lot more than other libraries that I own seem to do. I have worked in a lot of Pop/Rock settings contributing string arrangements, and I have noticed, the imperfections with using live players is always evident. It always adds to the character of the song. So to me the tuning is a great aspect. I realize however it's not for everyone. 

Here's a Sara Bareilles track she did for her last record using her vocal and strings. Lots of tuning and intonation problems. But it adds to the character of the recording they captured. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OjxxFhkXOs

So bottom line... if it bothers you, don't use it. If it doesn't, you are crazy not to buy it!

/brad


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 27, 2011)

I like that song a lot, and strings don't sound out of tune to me, they sound like strings! There's a reason they don't have frets.


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## guydoingmusic (Jan 27, 2011)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Jan 27 said:


> I like that song a lot, and strings don't sound out of tune to me, they sound like strings! There's a reason they don't have frets.



Exactly!!

/brad


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## rob morsberger (Jan 28, 2011)

Not to stir the pot further...but...I am really puzzled at the vehement response to Jay's comments. This is a forum that prides itself on forthright speech and Jay's opinions were expressed respectfully. It was a legitimate caveat to the OP, and some concur, some don't. Isn't that what Sample Talk is for?


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 28, 2011)

rJames @ Thu Jan 27 said:


> Usually it is just part of the sample. The attack or one of the strings goes wild. I don't think that is fixable in Kontakt.



Exactly. I assume that's why the tuning issues (and at this point there seem to be very few) are generally on the legato/sus and rarely if ever on the short ones. Besides some that scoop into tune, sometimes you'll also hear one where one of the players is out of tune with the others. And if the issue is the end of a legato transition being slow to zone in on the pitch, that can't be fixed by just raising the sample a few cents.

I'm glad the intonation isn't perfect because I feel like that gives some libraries a synthy sound. But it seems like there's a window - a little bit of tuning imperfection just helps it be "real" but at some point too much can cross a line and stick out. And where that line is can depend on the context of the piece.


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## tripit (Jan 31, 2011)

dcoscina @ Thu Jan 27 said:


> I think the real beauty of LASS is that it works! I can throw a ton of tracks down and not worry about this or that. I do have that problem with other similar themed libraries so even if those others might sound more "lush", if I cannot friggin use it, than all the lushness means squat to me. Truthfully, I use 80% of what LASS offers on a daily basis. I use the other string lib 25% if not less but definitely very sparingly because it's just not optimized as well for my modest system.



SO true.


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## jamwerks (Jan 31, 2011)

Personally, I’d rather have all articulations in tune, then with "humanisation" (vari-tuning) like VSL so brillently implemented in VI Pro! o-[][]-o


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## poseur (Jan 31, 2011)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Jan 27 said:


> I like that song a lot, and strings don't sound out of tune to me, they sound like strings! There's a reason they don't have frets.



*{..... not that the mere appearance of frets means comfortable & musical intonation..... ha!}*

dt


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 31, 2011)

Piling on top of your kidding (I think?), poseur, a few years ago I was an almost intermediate-level cello player (I started to work with my daughter when she was little, then she quit and I kept taking lessons). And when I was a teenager I learned the basic chords and some fingerpicking patterns on guitar.

I learned a whole lot about the subtleties of intonation from playing cello. Guitar is totally different.

What I still don't understand entirely is why it's so easy to sing in tune (provided you're in a comfortable range, of course) but you have to concentrate in so much more detail to play cello in tune. I guess it's because of muscle memory - you're blowing air through your vocal pipes all day long, whereas with the cello you're going to miss slightly and then you have to adjust and pull the note in tune.


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## Joe S (Jan 31, 2011)

LASS is a nice library, but still didn't capture the lush film sound people have been asking for for. It's also pretty lite on articulations. I do agree the programming is good. Brass recorded very dry like LASS is not something I am looking for personally.


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## ozmorphasis (Jan 31, 2011)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Jan 31 said:


> What I still don't understand entirely is why it's so easy to sing in tune (provided you're in a comfortable range, of course) but you have to concentrate in so much more detail to play cello in tune.



Because vocal intonation is genetically programmed into us for essential communication and language skills. We are wired to speak volumes to each other with the slightest nuance of pitch inflection. In other words, we have millions of years of practice with our vocal chords, less so with boxes with strings.

The connection between intonation and placing fingers on a cello fingerboard is artificial and invented. Not to discount it in anyway, it's just that it is several steps removed from pure instinct, and therefore requires more deliberate attention on the practitioner. Also, it's interesting to note that I have never seen a concert by even the most celebrated cellists where the intonation wasn't at least sometimes dodgy. Yo-Yo, Starker, Isserlis, and especially the great Rostropovich...they all miss stuff. Like Ben Hogan said about golf, "it's a game of misses." So, you try to reduce the misses. 

This is related to why beginners can play so unmusically on a piano or guitar, but even a terrible singer will naturally taper phrases in an organic way. The voice is just so connected to us. Even our daily speech has more natural phrasing than what a lot of musicians do on instruments if they are not well-trained. A box with buttons, frets, keys, hammers, etc...that requires a lot more imagination to make it sing. It's not inherent to its nature.

By the way, my first instrument was the cello (still play), but my main instrument is guitar. So, cheers to my brother in arms, Nick! o-[][]-o 

Having said all that, while I was studying conducting in Vienna, I learned more about phrasing and a million other aspects of musical nuance while taking voice lessons (I am NOT a singer) than from all other musical activities combined. This is, of course, why all of the conducting students were required to take voice lessons. What an eye-opening AND humbling experience.

O


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## ozmorphasis (Jan 31, 2011)

Oh, and back OT: I love LASS! =o 

I too have the occasional issue with the intonation, but 90 percent of the time, as others have mentioned, in context it just all works. 

There are so many great innovations in this library, and it keeps evolving in so many great ways, that I just continue to be impressed by it.

Good times indeed!

O


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## poseur (Feb 1, 2011)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Jan 31 said:


> Piling on top of your kidding (I think?), poseur,


ha!
not quite kidding --- sorta/maybe/kinda --- but certainly kinda wryly said, nb;
the _electric_ guitar (in particular) can be an odd beast, as far as intonation goes, afaic.
dt


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## Hannes_F (Feb 1, 2011)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Jan 31 said:


> I guess it's because of muscle memory - you're blowing air through your vocal pipes all day long, whereas with the cello you're going to miss slightly and then you have to adjust and pull the note in tune.



Yea right, on the cello even an inch counts


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 1, 2011)




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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 1, 2011)

Joe S, have you worked with LASS? What articulation are you trying to create that it can't do with controllers? What arts would you like added?


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## chimuelo (Feb 1, 2011)

I use LASS Ensemble Instruments retweaked and stacked inside of Instrument Banks. They are 16 bit NCW based too.
This also means I don't have to spend 2500 USD for a " String DAW " and another 1000 USD on top of the LASS Lite price just to have a more convenient " Lush " sound bathed with reverb and compression.

I don't mind the extra work of learning the application and using a quality hardware reverb to get my " lush " sound for 3500 USD less........... o-[][]-o


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## booboo (Feb 1, 2011)

Joe S @ Mon Jan 31 said:


> LASS is a nice library, but still didn't capture the lush film sound people have been asking for for. It's also pretty lite on articulations. I do agree the programming is good. Brass recorded very dry like LASS is not something I am looking for personally.



I respectfully disagree with this! LASS gives a fantastic "film" sound (whatever that means). True, it's not a big Dennis Sands or Shawn Murphy wideness OTB, but that's what I like about it. 
If your suggesting that sound, keep in mind that MUCH of that is post-production processing, and often the score DOES NOT sound like that in the film. Usually there is a dub stage mix and a soundtrack album mix, and the album will have a additional mastering (including inflators and wideners) as well as more verb. If you're playing a library where EVERY SINGLE NOTE has been mastered this way, you have very little control over the 'sound' of your project. It's really difficult to do a master mix when every note has been individually mastered to the brim, and you're using, say 100 or so of those notes stacked on top of each other at any given moment. 

FWIW, I just finished a score where we blended Prague Phil Harmonic with the LASS mockups, and it's startling how similar LASS by itself sounds to the live recordings.

IMO, it's important to have the modern sound/quality, but also the flexibility to produce the score exactly how you want it. LASS is the only Lib of recent that I can think of that does this.

Can't wait for brass!


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## jamwerks (Feb 1, 2011)

Is a LASS Brass an announced reality or just wishfull speculation?


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## booboo (Feb 1, 2011)

I forgot to add, that in my personal experience, if you feel like you're hearing wonky intonation, the FC is mixed too high. Turn that down and then Bob's your Uncle.

If intonation is fine, but you feel like your passage is a little 'brittle', turn down FC and "B" section slightly, and that should work well!


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## Thonex (Feb 1, 2011)

jamwerks @ Tue Feb 01 said:


> Is a LASS Brass an announced reality or just wishfull speculation?



Hi jamworks,

Without going into details about release dates and in which order things will be rolled out, audiobro intends on addressing the entire orchestra... and that would include the brass.

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## jamwerks (Feb 1, 2011)

=o


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## guydoingmusic (Feb 1, 2011)

o-[][]-o ... sets aside more money to give to the Audiobro fellas! Now how do I hide this from my wife? That's the real question!


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## Farkle (Feb 1, 2011)

guydoingmusic @ Tue Feb 01 said:


> o-[][]-o ... sets aside more money to give to the Audiobro fellas! Now how do I hide this from my wife? That's the real question!


 =o 

Adding to the epic support of Andrew K's reveal. Go, go, Andrew, and release them libs! I'll be here, check in hand! 

Mike


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 1, 2011)

Yes, 'tis indeed awesome news...

I appreciate Andrew doesn't want to say any more just yet, but I'd love something a little more concrete before HB comes out (slated for this summer)....


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## chimuelo (Feb 1, 2011)

I think Andrew needs a Lambourghini too.


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## stevenson-again (Feb 2, 2011)

> Stunningly good news.



+1.

god - hurry up already....

i am sure this will happen naturally but i hope it is as consistent as possible with paradigms already created with the string libraries. that way we can use programming interchangeably to keep the work flow fast, and be able to generally drive it based on our understanding of the the string library.


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## Thonex (Feb 2, 2011)

stevenson-again @ Wed Feb 02 said:


> > Stunningly good news.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes... we will keep our methodologies consistent unless we come up with even better approaches ( :wink: )... but we are very keen on keeping CCs and whatever "standards" we've created with LASS common within the audiobro libraries unless we feel we can improve on them.

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## garylionelli (Feb 3, 2011)

Great news Andrew. And I hope you will never get *fill in your own word here* and try developing your own sample player. We love Kontakt 4 and your libraries just the way they are. A great combination for sure, and now a standard at this point.


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 3, 2011)

Just today I saw elsewhere a suggestion from a user to a sample developer that they should create their own playback plugin and dump Kontakt. The very thought made my skin crawl.


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## rJames (Feb 3, 2011)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Feb 01 said:


> Joe S, have you worked with LASS? What articulation are you trying to create that it can't do with controllers? What arts would you like added?



Well, I'm not Joe and I am perfectly happy with LASS as is but

Sul Pont. 

BTW regarding woodwinds and brass (if we've moved the conversation on to helpful ideas for Andrew :D )

I bought Sonic Implants Orchestra in my search for more sounds but even went back to EW woodwinds because of the variety of articulations. What I mean is EW has sus and non-sus but also a few types of expressive which come in very handy as an alternative attack and sustain. For me it acted a little bit like the ww player was actually using his lips... variety.


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## Thonex (Feb 3, 2011)

Mike Connelly @ Thu Feb 03 said:


> Just today I saw elsewhere a suggestion from a user to a sample developer that they should create their own playback plugin and dump Kontakt. The very thought made my skin crawl.



Well... I can only speak for audiobro... we are very impressed with Kontakt as an engine and all it's capabilities... and with NI as a company. We are definitely not thinking of developing a sampler engine... ugh.... the very thought of keeping up with all the OSs and standards (VST, AU, RTAS, Win 7, Vista etc) makes me want to cry. :lol:


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 3, 2011)

And sul tasto, non-vib, sul individual strings - got it, Ron - there are all kinds of playing techniques it doesn't have (in fact only VSL has all or most of that stuff).

What I was wondering is whether Joe understood that LASS is designed so you play the different articulations using the sliders. That's why you don't see 15 kinds of cescendos, etc. in the list.


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## Thonex (Feb 4, 2011)

Hi Ron,

Yeah... I like sul ponticello too... especially for tremolos.

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## Wunderhorn (Feb 4, 2011)

Thonex @ Thu Feb 03 said:


> Well... I can only speak for audiobro... we are very impressed with Kontakt as an engine and all it's capabilities... and with NI as a company. We are definitely not thinking of developing a sampler engine... ugh.... the very thought of keeping up with all the OSs and standards (VST, AU, RTAS, Win 7, Vista etc) makes me want to cry. :lol:



i think right now NI is one of the best options.
i am very happy running LASS in kontakt.

we just should not forget that this was not always so. in the days of the old kompakt player it was a horrible situation, the thing was buggy to no end and the support was awful. and it caused eastwest to be very brave and develop their own sample player which was - back then - a great move. maybe it was one of the inspiring factors to NI to improve kontakt which they did. in fact they did it so quickly and well that now we would wish that all the PLAY libraries were back in kontakt format. at least i do. i use the EWQSO platinum in kontakt even though i have the PLAY version too and it just works so much better. i guess nobody really could foresee all the challenges that the developers of PLAY had to face and still are facing. not to mention the detrimental relationship to pace...


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## SF_Guy (Feb 4, 2011)

Hey Andrew, 

For a brass library - please have separated parts and tons of articulations! Like VSL's Dimension Brass but recorded in regular studio with more options. 

Would love to see:

All parts work separately and blend well together.

4 Trumpets: 1, 2, 3, 4.
8 horns separated in pairs: 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8
3 Tenor Trombones: 1, 2, 3,
2 Bass Trombones: 1, 2
1 Tuba

I'd figure I might as well ask. :mrgreen:


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## P.T. (Feb 4, 2011)

A question about intonation.

People have said that this has been fixed in recent updates.
Were new samples recorded?

I ask because the problem that I hear is not note to note tuning issues, it is the tuning within some of the individual samples.
When they were recorded the various players were not playing in tune with each other.

I know perfection is not possible, but in some of the demos the playing is off enough that I can't see that a conductor would find it acceptable. There are limits.

I like the basic idea of the library and I like the legatos. I know I am sensitive to tuning issues, but the tuning here put me off.

I know that it's a popular library and that I am an odd man out.


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## Thonex (Feb 4, 2011)

P.T. @ Fri Feb 04 said:


> A question about intonation.
> 
> People have said that this has been fixed in recent updates.
> Were new samples recorded?
> ...



Hi P.T.

Many of those demos are from the original release (Version 1.0) and many tuning requests have been addressed a long time ago. However, if we kept something on our official demos section, then we feel it was an honest representation of our library and any tuning "issues" you may hear there are not something we find offending. To the contrary... we find that it adds a realism and when layered with the other divisis, builds a nice organic section. That said, we may have used the tuning randomization on some demos to add a certain depth to the sound... but all in all, we stand by the demos posted on our site. 

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## studioj (Feb 4, 2011)

Just finishing up a big commercial campaign using this library and I have to say it is outstanding. Sure I can hear some of the intonation stuff you guys are talking about but nothing has kept me away from a particular line with a particular section...its always in the realm of realism and that's what I love about it. sometimes I shift around lines between diff div groups as a result but this is something I would do with live players also. Fabulous work with this library and I can't wait for the rest of the orchestra!!


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## Thonex (Feb 5, 2011)

SF_Guy @ Fri Feb 04 said:


> Hey Andrew,
> 
> For a brass library - please have separated parts and tons of articulations! Like VSL's Dimension Brass but recorded in regular studio with more options.
> 
> ...



That's a pretty good list :wink: 8)


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 5, 2011)

Thonex @ Sat Feb 05 said:


> That's a pretty good list :wink: 8)



Ooooooooooooh!!!!!!!!

Please before Hollywood Brass... please before Hollywood Brass.... at least announce before Hollywood Brass is released!


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## Thonex (Feb 5, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Sat Feb 05 said:


> Thonex @ Sat Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > That's a pretty good list :wink: 8)
> ...



Sorry noiseboyuk.... we're not announcing anything before it's almost ready to ship. That includes all sections of the orchestra. Now that we're multi-tasking, there is too much that can happen to delay a release... so we're going to (at least try) not announcing anything before it's ready to ship.



noiseboyuk said:


> There's always - ALWAYS - something more important to worry about than 24 bit



Yes... but if you click on the "24 Bit" setting button... there's _one less_ thing to worry about :mrgreen: 

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 5, 2011)

Ach, you and your professionalism, Andrew!

Well, it's exciting at least to hear you now have the resources to work on multiple projects simultaneously, great news.

EDIT - one additional thought, Andrew, re the brass. An issue that came up on the VSL Dimension Brass discussion thread that personally drives me nuts is in trying to avoid that synthy filter effect when riding the modwheel between ppp / fff. I can only presume that the problem is the huge variety in tone between soft and loud in brass as compared to the other instruments. French Horns are especially bad for it. I found myself wondering if Kontakt's morphing feature would help. I'm 100% sure you'll be across this issue anyway, but just wanted to say it's my dream to have brass that I can play just like LASS, and sounds equally natural. I'd love to be able to not need specific time-locked cresc/dims, also specific repetition patches...


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## Thonex (Feb 8, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Sun Feb 06 said:


> it's my dream to have brass that I can play just like LASS, and sounds equally natural. I'd love to be able to not need specific time-locked cresc/dims, also specific repetition patches...



Thanks noiseboyuk,

Yes... that would be our approach and goal as well.

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## Pochflyboy (Feb 8, 2011)

Thonex @ Tue Feb 08 said:


> Yes... that would be our approach and goal as well.



Well that is certainly good to hear! haha im sittin on the edge of my seat now.... thxs alot Andrew! :wink:


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 8, 2011)

Yeah, awesome news. As as I say, I'm so in love with the LASS way of playing, it just feels more musical and less technical than the other libraries. That counts for so much (alongside it's robustness).

Did a little quartet thing the other day with First Chair. Just used the legato and spiccato patches... that was it. Really convincing cheeky genteel glisses up and down, all "programmed" by simply playing the notes quietly. Love, love, love.

We live in good times...


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## guydoingmusic (Feb 8, 2011)

I've gone through at least a dozen monitors, trying to kill that bug in Andrew's signature! That little thing is elusive!

/brad


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## Sforzando (Feb 8, 2011)

SF_Guy @ Fri Feb 04 said:


> Hey Andrew,
> 
> For a brass library - please have separated parts and tons of articulations! Like VSL's Dimension Brass but recorded in regular studio with more options.
> 
> ...


That's a great setup, though I would personally prefer 4 solo horns and have the other 4 derive from those. Kinda how like Violins II derive from Violins I in LASS, that way Andrew doens't have to hire as many people.


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## SF_Guy (Feb 9, 2011)

I'm really looking forward to the rest of your libraries Andrew - exceptional work on LASS!


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