# Sonarworks/Sound ID a Joke



## FrozenIcicle (Jan 27, 2022)

This company is a joke. Is it me or they bring out a small update or change the name of their program and suddenly I'm forced to upgrade as they no longer support the latest Mac OS or the new M1. I already paid for an upgrade once, I have no trust if I upgrade to SoundID, they won't make a SoundID2...


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## davidson (Jan 27, 2022)

I've not had any issues with them. What's happening, are they charging for an M1 update?


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## Zanshin (Jan 27, 2022)

Thread title is bullshit click bait.

I don't have any opinion about the real subject of the thread, I have found the software itself is great


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## Phaedraz (Jan 27, 2022)

Yes I have no problems with the Software. It is golden. All companies needs to make money so upgrades costing is nothing strange, nor a problem unless we're talking a lot of money. Minor updates are expected to be free though.


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## FrozenIcicle (Jan 27, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Thread title is bullshit click bait.
> 
> I don't have any opinion about the real subject of the thread, I have found the software itself is great





Phaedraz said:


> Yes I have no problems with the Software. It is golden. All companies needs to make money so upgrades costing is nothing strange, nor a problem unless we're talking a lot of money. Minor updates are expected to be free though.


Yes, I know the software is good, which is why I bought it in the first place when it was just Sonarworks. But their business model of charging for minor upgrades every year is almost similar to Waves. 

When the algorithm doesn't change, I guess they need to find a way to keep making money. Their upgrade pricing for a few extra custom translations and a change of colours in the UI, isn't worth $80+


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## FrozenIcicle (Jan 27, 2022)

davidson said:


> I've not had any issues with them. What's happening, are they charging for an M1 update?


They just make your version obsolete so you're forced to upgrade


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## davidson (Jan 27, 2022)

FrozenIcicle said:


> They just make your version obsolete so you're forced to upgrade


Ah, so sonarworks 4 isn't silicon native and you'd need to upgrade to soundid? I feel your pain, you're not getting much from the upgrade bar that but most software has a paid update sooner or later. Just take it on the chin if it's something you use a lot.


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## Kent (Jan 27, 2022)

R&D and legacy support aren’t free. I’m not sure I see the issue…?


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## Kent (Jan 27, 2022)

Like, has it stopped working on the system you were using it on?


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## vitocorleone123 (Jan 27, 2022)

I've only paid $30 or so for the one upgrade over 3 years of having the software, but that was headphones to headphones and the upgrade was optional because I'm on Windows.

Some of the angst is directed in the wrong direction at the developer instead of Apple for continually changing things on developers, sucking time and resources away from their efforts of actually improving their products.


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## gamma-ut (Jan 27, 2022)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Yes, I know the software is good, which is why I bought it in the first place when it was just Sonarworks.


So, not actually a joke. OK, glad we got that sorted out.


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## timbit2006 (Jan 27, 2022)

This should be an apple hate thread if anything. M1 is not any developers fault and no one could have foreseen the nightmares that apple had planned to bring down upon them. On top of countless OS updates that break backwards compatibility I really can't comprehend why people are still willingly overpaying for their macs and using them.


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## Buz (Jan 27, 2022)

It's an unusual situation for sure. Many developers are biting because they know it'll be popular. With enough momentum on that end, users forget what they're actually doing is migrating to a different platform with patchy software support. Quite the PR coup.


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## kevinh (Jan 27, 2022)

For BF 2021 they had 40% off upgrades. Reference 4 headphones to soundid headphones was only $24. Similar for speaker and headphone upgrade at 40% off. I’ve only paid sonarworks two times. Original purchase of reference and upgrade to soundid. Every update has been free.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 27, 2022)

Please change the thread title to something less click-bait.

Instead, you can state the specific issue in clear language.

Also, I've had nothing but good experiences with Sonarworks for 2.5 years.


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## FrozenIcicle (Jan 28, 2022)

Buz said:


> It's an unusual situation for sure. Many developers are biting because they know it'll be popular. With enough momentum on that end, users forget what they're actually doing is migrating to a different platform with patchy software support. Quite the PR coup.


True. I still don't think upgrading from Reference 4 to SoundID from reference 3 is even worth it. Nothing has really changed and like I said it my OP, they might tweak UI a bit in the future and now we're upgrading again. The algorithm still hasn't changed in all the upgrades.


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## Zanshin (Jan 28, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Please change the thread title to something less click-bait.
> 
> Instead, you can state the specific issue in clear language.
> 
> Also, I've had nothing but good experiences with Sonarworks for 2.5 years.


@FrozenIcicle is just going to leave it as clickbait, they are a special and unique person.


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## el-bo (Jan 28, 2022)

I don't think that companies should be expected to give free updates, unless it's for bug-crashing. But I dropped them as soon as they forced their system-wide software into the installation.


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## aeliron (Jan 28, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> ...
> 
> Some of the angst is directed in the wrong direction at the developer instead of Apple for continually changing things on developers, sucking time and resources away from their efforts of actually improving their products.



Yeah, Apple dropping those new M1 processors really screwed us all over!


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## fakemaxwell (Jan 28, 2022)

Kent said:


> R&D and legacy support aren’t free. I’m not sure I see the issue…?


You're not wrong but there's plenty of similarly sized plugin makers who haven't charged for their Apple updates...

But yeah this one falls on Apple. I get that the M1 is an entirely new architecture but this is like the 4th time they've forced developers into spending time on compatibility. All in the name of what? A worse OS experience?

Windows gets a lot of deserved shit but you can still run things from the 90s on Windows 10. All the bitching about the UAC from Vista is here again, but this time on MacOS.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jan 28, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Yeah, Apple dropping those new M1 processors really screwed us all over!


Correct, in that it negatively impacted the industry for a period of time, and undoubtedly set back new product and feature development at a number of companies. We'd all have more and better goodies available right now if not for Apple.

The scramble to make things work will fade, but the lost time and opportunity will not.


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## fakemaxwell (Jan 28, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Correct, in that it negatively impacted the industry for a period of time, and undoubtedly set back new product and feature development at a number of companies. We'd all have more and better goodies available right now if not for Apple.
> 
> The scramble to make things work will fade, but the lost time and opportunity will not.


Well to be fair, technology marches forward. ARM chips are probably going to continue to take up market share regardless of whether or not Apple releases them.

The problem is when they give the middle finger to everybody, for no reason. At a certain point software companies are just going to stop updating things to match the Apple flavor of the week. People are already complaining about this! But they direct it at the plugin companies as if they were the ones to stop backwards compatibility.


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## khollister (Jan 29, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Correct, in that it negatively impacted the industry for a period of time, and undoubtedly set back new product and feature development at a number of companies. We'd all have more and better goodies available right now if not for Apple.
> 
> The scramble to make things work will fade, but the lost time and opportunity will not.


Spoken like a loyal Windows user  I could just as easily say we Mac users would have more goodies if developers weren't preoccupied with Windows/PC versions. Or screw Steinberg for making everyone do VST instead of AU, or ...


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## aeliron (Jan 29, 2022)

fakemaxwell said:


> Well to be fair, technology marches forward. ARM chips are probably going to continue to take up market share regardless of whether or not Apple releases them.
> 
> The problem is when they give the middle finger to everybody, for no reason. At a certain point software companies are just going to stop updating things to match the Apple flavor of the week. People are already complaining about this! But they direct it at the plugin companies as if they were the ones to stop backwards compatibility.


Well, I'm not sure introducing super duper CPU speed to the entire computing world is "no reason" ... and that keeping software companies happy is a reason to stay with old, hobbled chip designs.

Yes, I'm not super happy that Opus in native mode hangs notes in Orchestrator, and I can't get the full benefit of M1 yet, and I have to run Logic in Rosetta for that. Maybe when VSL goes cloud licensing I'll try switching back for a while. But in the words of Monty Python: "I'm feeling much better ..."


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## vitocorleone123 (Jan 29, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Well, I'm not sure introducing super duper CPU speed to the entire computing world is "no reason" ... and that keeping software companies happy is a reason to stay with old, hobbled chip designs.
> 
> Yes, I'm not super happy that Opus in native mode hangs notes in Orchestrator, and I can't get the full benefit of M1 yet, and I have to run Logic in Rosetta for that. Maybe when VSL goes cloud licensing I'll try switching back for a while. But in the words of Monty Python: "I'm feeling much better ..."


It's not the speed (pretty sure Apple doesn't have the fastest chip, even on release, though it's up there), it's the speed PLUS efficiency. Apple may fall behind on the speed this year and may not catch up again, as that doesn't seem to be the focus. But I also doubt Intel and AMD can catch it in efficiency this year. There's nothing "hobbled" about Intel and AMD - again, the focus has been on speed over efficiency.

As a Windows user, all we see is our favorite software devs spending time on compatibility for (more) Apple changes rather than making bugfixes, updates, features, and new products. I see an update, get excited, and realize it's another update just for Apple compatibility, as months drag on. Mildly annoying, but, whatever. It's not like Apple hasn't caused issues before and won't do it again.

(Yes, I also use an MBP for work)


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## bvaughn0402 (Jan 29, 2022)

I like their product. I didn't really care for the last update, mostly because I didn't think they made a clear, understandable upgrade path from the older product.


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## fakemaxwell (Jan 29, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Well, I'm not sure introducing super duper CPU speed to the entire computing world is "no reason" ... and that keeping software companies happy is a reason to stay with old, hobbled chip designs.
> 
> Yes, I'm not super happy that Opus in native mode hangs notes in Orchestrator, and I can't get the full benefit of M1 yet, and I have to run Logic in Rosetta for that. Maybe when VSL goes cloud licensing I'll try switching back for a while. But in the words of Monty Python: "I'm feeling much better ..."


I was referring to the other changes that were not the M1 (dropping 32 bit support, etc). They kept breaking previously working software for no gain other than "we're doing this now."

The M1 is actual progress, however everybody is already so tired of having to redo everything for Apple. It seems inevitable they're going to do it again.


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## aeliron (Jan 29, 2022)

fakemaxwell said:


> I was referring to the other changes that were not the M1 (dropping 32 bit support, etc). They kept breaking previously working software for no gain other than "we're doing this now."
> 
> The M1 is actual progress, however everybody is already so tired of having to redo everything for Apple. It seems inevitable they're going to do it again.


Ah. Yes, I wish they’d fix family sharing, media management, photo management, windowing weirdness, … 

Then again, with Windows 11 many computers and users are going to be abandoned.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jan 29, 2022)

khollister said:


> Spoken like a loyal Windows user  I could just as easily say we Mac users would have more goodies if developers weren't preoccupied with Windows/PC versions. Or screw Steinberg for making everyone do VST instead of AU, or ...


Not sure when that happens for Windows. One time for 32bit>64bit, I suppose. Maybe? One reason Windows has been less stable than Mac is because of all the legacy support so developers don't have to continue to iterate just to have their code function. Apple makes life hard for developers on the regular.

Windows 11 is TBD.

As I said in my post, I also use an MBP. "Loyal"? No, just rational and sensible


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## jcrosby (Jan 29, 2022)

fakemaxwell said:


> I was referring to the other changes that were not the M1 (dropping 32 bit support, etc). They kept breaking previously working software for no gain other than "we're doing this now."
> 
> The M1 is actual progress, however everybody is already so tired of having to redo everything for Apple. It seems inevitable they're going to do it again.


Well looking back now, this was all clearly done in preparation for Apple Silicone. All of the specs they've forced on macos in the past 4-5 years were already happening in ios years earlier. 64 bit only, metal, etc. Apple's been designing their own mobile chips for over a decade now so realistically this was probably in the works for a very long time, and the deprecations that happened were preparations for desktop software developers to adapt to inevitable changes coming to macos.

To be clear, while I like macos I don't like how quickly all of this happened. But now that native processors are here I at least understand how to view the previous aggressive changes they made quickly.

Meanwhile Propellerhead and Steinberg have been up to their own disruption... Rewire (which I still like quite a lot) is done, and the VST3-only shift will cause another inevitable speed bump for some developers. (Not to mention elicenser)... It's all a little too much too fast.


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