# Minimalism in tv scores



## passenger57 (Jan 30, 2013)

Just a little coffe shop venting here - 
I was recently watching a new major tv crime/drama show. The score was literally a couple ambient pads, occasional beats and a tinkly piano. How does one get such a cushy gig? I could have scored that whole episode in a day easy! 
I notice this 'sound design' type of scoring alot these days. Does anyone actually compose music anymore? Why do I even bother writing themes, lol :lol:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 30, 2013)

2 things to consider:

- the composer follows the director + editor's lead. If that's what he/she wants, that what they get. If you go in a different direction, you'll get a ton of revision notes, and then, hello 24-hour session.
- if the music is delivered in stems, complete cues can be broken down into simpler elements during the final mix, when, often, the composer is not even present (too busy writing the next episode's cues).


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## jeffc (Jan 30, 2013)

If you want to see what tv scores are going to sound like, then you need to see what's going on in film scores. Because it's really trickle-down. And stuff gets temped. At the pilot stage. And people don't temp with TV scores, they temp with film scores. And they want to be cool and hip and current. That's what really happens. And let's face it, in the past 5-10 years, many of the successful (obviously not all) film scores have been very ambient and minimal. Cliff Martinez is on fire now for his sound, but he's been doing it for years and it's now come back around and is extremely in vogue after Drive, Conatgion, etc. That's the aesthetic that is 'cool' now. I can't tell you how many cues I did that were melodic, had counterpoint, etc but eventually get stripped down to the bare minimum to make everyone happy. And sometimes, it's the right thing to do and works better for the picture, and that's the most important. Piano has been around for hundreds of years and is sometimes terribly cliche, but you can't deny that a couple of perfect placed piano notes are as haunting, moving, and emotional as the biggest orchestra on the planet, in the right situation....

That being said, I hope it all comes back around to big melodies and complex arrangements, but I'm not going to hold my breath.....


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## passenger57 (Jan 30, 2013)

Yes, I'm sure the composers in high profile shows have to deal with many chefs in the kitchen. I love minimalism, especially guys like Cliff and Desplat who are masters at it. 
But I'm talking more about the trend in tv shows where its just an omnisphere pad going on for 2min. It's laughable - But hey if thats the trend then so be it. 
I prefer tv composers like Bear Mccreary who actually write memorable themes. Bill Brown is also an awesome tv composer.


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## George Caplan (Jan 30, 2013)

to me big orchestra sounds dont work for most tv and rarely work for movies. most movies today dont really stand up to big orchestra scores because they are minimal themselves.


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## christianhowes (Jan 30, 2013)

I think it all comes down to fitting in the show and it's audience. Of course as musicians/composers we all want technically challenging and interesting pieces, but unfortunately the general public doesn't always agree.

Cheers!


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## germancomponist (Jan 30, 2013)

passenger57 @ Wed Jan 30 said:


> But I'm talking more about the trend in tv shows where its just an omnisphere pad going on for 2min. It's laughable



+1

This is pathetic and also very worrying. How will this go on?

Is this the result of the work of the so called _modern composers_?


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## mark812 (Jan 30, 2013)

christianhowes @ Wed Jan 30 said:


> I think it all comes down to fitting in the show and it's audience. Of course as musicians/composers we all want technically challenging and interesting pieces, but unfortunately the general public doesn't always agree.
> 
> Cheers!



Exactly.


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 30, 2013)

christianhowes @ Wed Jan 30 said:


> I think it all comes down to fitting in the show and it's audience. Of course as musicians/composers we all want technically challenging and interesting pieces, but unfortunately the general public doesn't always agree.
> 
> Cheers!



This.

I cautiously welcome this trend. On a good drama I'd rather have under than overstated any day. Not saying a 2 min pad is always the right answer... but it might be.


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## germancomponist (Jan 30, 2013)

The general public is too busy trying to become a zombie.


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## mark812 (Jan 30, 2013)

Slightly off topic, but _American Horror Story: Asylum_ finale had amazing music. Great show, too.


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## Andreas Moisa (Jan 30, 2013)

I very recently watched an episode of a crime show I scored and at some points I felt that being more minimalistic would suit the scenes even better.


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## germancomponist (Jan 30, 2013)

Andreas Moisa @ Thu Jan 31 said:


> I very recently watched an episode of a crime show I scored and at some points I felt that being more minimalistic would suit the scenes even better.



Sure, but I think youi have not used an omnisphere pad going on for 2min... .?


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## Andreas Moisa (Jan 30, 2013)

I think it really doesn't matter as long as it works for the show - and most of the Time ist doesn't work anyway


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## George Caplan (Jan 30, 2013)

germancomponist @ Wed Jan 30 said:


> Andreas Moisa @ Thu Jan 31 said:
> 
> 
> > I very recently watched an episode of a crime show I scored and at some points I felt that being more minimalistic would suit the scenes even better.
> ...



gunther you get a lot of folks here talking about composers like john williams and bernard herrmann. how is that type of scoring going to work in say a tv show like the following?
you may as well have a chord playing 2 minutes all the difference its going to make.


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## passenger57 (Jan 30, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed Jan 30 said:


> 2 things to consider:
> 
> - the composer follows the director + editor's lead. If that's what he/she wants, that what they get. If you go in a different direction, you'll get a ton of revision notes, and then, hello 24-hour session.
> - if the music is delivered in stems, complete cues can be broken down into simpler elements during the final mix, when, often, the composer is not even present (too busy writing the next episode's cues).



This brings up something I've always been concerneed about regarding stems. 
Say you write a cue with many layers themes, etc.. In the cue you use a loop from a sample library. Then at the mixing session music editor or mixer removes your layers and only uses the loop! Then your in violation of the sample licensing agreement which requires at least two musical layers! :shock:


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## passenger57 (Jan 30, 2013)

Andreas Moisa @ Wed Jan 30 said:


> I think it really doesn't matter as long as it works for the show - and most of the Time ist doesn't work anyway



This is true and of course maybe the perfect cue for a scene is just a few held piano notes - example: EYES WIDE SHUT. But again, I'm not talking about that. The subject is doing an entire tv episode with two pads and a tinkly piano. Then again, maybe thats perfect for the show, I'm just commenting on how some shows are more sound design than composition. I'm not against it, was just saying how it must be a cushy gig and not very fulfilling creatively.


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## germancomponist (Jan 30, 2013)

passenger57 @ Thu Jan 31 said:


> I'm not against it, was just saying how it must be a cushy gig and not very fulfilling creatively.



+1


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## George Caplan (Jan 30, 2013)

theyre all mostly sound design.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 30, 2013)

passenger57 @ 30/1/2013 said:


> This brings up something I've always been concerneed about regarding stems.
> Say you write a cue with many layers themes, etc.. In the cue you use a loop from a sample library. Then at the mixing session music editor or mixer removes your layers and only uses the loop! Then your in violation of the sample licensing agreement which requires at least two musical layers! :shock:



Well, I think it's all a question of context. If it were to happen more than once, and every episode, then yeah, I could see that as a problem. But if it were to happen 2 or 3 times over the course of a 12 or 24-episode series, with hours-worth of cues, then no, I don't think any dev would waste their energy there. :wink:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 30, 2013)

And FWIW, sometimes I can spend a long time finding just the right 4 chords, or 8 notes, and the right pad. Just sayin'... Don't judge the effort that went in by the simplicity of the cue. It can take a lot of hard work to find just the right match. And, after all, it's about finding just the right match with a specific scene.

Also, FWIW, 3/4 of the time, the music is buried under everything else. So much for all that detailed middle-voice writing, multi-layered arrangement, the complex polyrhythms, etc. :lol:


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## JohnG (Jan 30, 2013)

A couple of other pressures can cause this. Even though composers get hardly any time to write nowadays for TV, sometimes the production schedule cuts even that little amount of time in half.

If you really have to deliver 10 minutes a day, that has an impact on what is feasible, even with helpers.


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## mverta (Jan 30, 2013)

I was recently hired to do a horror/thriller temp'd with all the 1-finger bullshit you hear plastered on top of everything nowadays. Director bummed the picture is boring, and every time they screen it for distributors, they get 1000 pages of "notes." I told him not to touch a thing, and to give it to me without temp and relax.

You already know where this story is going, likely. "Wow, it's like.. you can tell what he's _thinking_ when he's just standing there...!" No shit, genius. Perfectly nice director, just had no idea what music can do; didn't grow up with any. 

If your director doesn't like music/isn't receptive to music/is having intimate relations with the temp, there's nothing you can do. My personal experience is that isn't as common as people like to pretend; mostly, they just have no idea what they're missing and need to be taught. Everyone likes to see their show/film go to whole new levels.

And schedule? I can write 10 minutes of real stuff in a day if I have to. So could anyone writing tv work 60+ years ago. That's just practice. It's no fun, but I roundly reject production schedules as justification for the crap storm.


_Mike


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## passenger57 (Jan 30, 2013)

Well said Mike, thank you. 
In my case, I have to admit I'm lucky as the two directors I'm currently working with temped the movies with Jerry Goldsmith!  Old school guys, I love it!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 30, 2013)

It's all about knowing when and what musical sound effect to use, of course.

I actually made the most money per square inch I've ever made in my life that way. 1-finger pad + a 1-finger rhythm part, a couple of hours work between the various lengths. They were looking for something they couldn't find, and I knew what they needed from the description.

I could something that pays an embarrassing amount of money right about now, and I wouldn't even be bothered if it required real music instead of just a pad.


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## Stiltzkin (Jan 30, 2013)

To be honest, I don't think it is right to have frustration towards the composer.

If you look at it from his or her perspective, they were offered a job and did what the director wanted, and they were happy with it.

That's pretty much what the job is  So to be angry with him for doing what he was paid to do seems counter-productive, and to be honest I'd have called anyone a fool that didn't take advantage of an opportunity as such.

If the director isn't happy with the music he can find someone else very easily I imagine, but for now I guess he's happy with what he gets


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## mverta (Jan 30, 2013)

Nazi guards just did what they were told as well, and made their boss happy, too.


Even in that insanely over-the-top-parallel, you'll still notice that everyone has a choice about what quality of work they provide. I wouldn't produce 1-finger bullshit no matter how much you paid me; music deserves better than that, it's been good to me. 

Our job isn't just to provide whatever the director wants. It's the director's job to hire those whose quality work he/she values, and let them do it. Just because they might have failed at their half doesn't mean you have to fail at yours.

_Mike


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 31, 2013)

mverta @ Thu Jan 31 said:


> Nazi guards just did what they were told as well, and made their boss happy, too.



Godwin's Law! And on page 1 too.

Hmm, there's a lot of ideas getting conflated here - perhaps what doesn't help is that we don't know what the score in the OP was.

Some of the best TV in recent years has what I'd describe as minimalist scoring. Homeland went badly wrong somewhere towards the end of series 2 (there was a dreadful chase scene with exactly the cliched percussion I'd been impressed for 2 years that they'd avoided for example). But for the most part it was so unobtrusive, most folks wouldn't even know that there was a score at all. When I concentrated on it - rarely - it seemed very skilfully done, with the sounds and instruments chosen with great care to avoid the obvious. It was usually very simple and - in theory - could have been knocked out in 5 minutes. But I bet it wasn't.

So the OP's score might be like that. On the other hand. maybe it's pure lazyness / absurd time constraints and the score doesn't serve picture at all (always - ALWAYS - the only thing that ever matters).

It's definitely possible to go the other way as well, and there's a current good example. Last week I heard the review on the BBC's radio film review programme of Lincoln. Kermode and Mayo both highly praised the film, while saying it feel short of Spielberg's very best. They praised pretty much every element of the film except one, and they singled it out for criticism - John Williams' score. They both made the same point - Speilberg himself had said in interview on the show that he aimed to keep a "quiet lens", none of the camera tricks he might usually perform because he didn't think it was appropriate. The charge against Lincoln's score (I've yet to hear it) is that it did the opposite - far too nakedly, obviously, told people what to think, and it was to the significant detriment of the film.

Leaving aside all arguments of Williams' A game, his work in the past 10-20 years etc, let's consider than on pure merit. Williams is a highly skillful composer, who is able to use every tool in the composer's pallette to elicit emotion and tell story. Yet in this case - in the view of some - there was far too much of it (not just the amount of music, though that was definitely an issue too, but it's overbearing nature was singled out). It ended up detracting for these people.

In the end, each of us have to do what is right for the picture, and fulfil what the director / producer wants. Sometimes that can be educating them. I've had Mike's experience where a director was floored by the difference a score made ("You made it FUNNIER!" she said). These are powerful tools at our disposal. But there's often a time to reign it in, where less is more. I'd say that in drama in particular, that's been a trend, and it's nothing to do with schedules or lazyness - it's an artistic choice to keep a score understated, subtle or minimalist.

Final example. One of my favourite scores is John Powell's United 93. After I first saw the movie, when I reflected afterwards, I genuinely did not even know if there was a score in the main body of the film at all. I was so immersed into it, it felt so real, I zoned everything else out (this is the highest praise of filmmaking). When I saw it again and then bought the score, I really appreciated how much hard work that score was doing, in its blissfully unobtrusive way. Minimalism all around - drones, small flitting percussion and tech, a low orchestra breathing in and out (that breathing... wow....). In the opening cue, even using Powell's own child in a breathtaking call and response cue that is as subtle as it is beautiful and haunting. Yet I guess some might hear the score and write it off as "a few drones and synths, knocked off in half a day". Not me.


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## germancomponist (Jan 31, 2013)

mverta @ Thu Jan 31 said:


> Nazi guards just did what they were told as well, and made their boss happy, too.
> 
> 
> Even in that insanely over-the-top-parallel, you'll still notice that everyone has a choice about what quality of work they provide. I wouldn't produce 1-finger [email protected]#t no matter how much you paid me; music deserves better than that, it's been good to me.
> ...



+100


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## rpaillot (Jan 31, 2013)

Last week I watched a few episodes of that old , but good, TV show "law and order new york" and I was surprised at how few musics there are and how minimalist it is . And it's Mike Post.

He only used a strings pad for the whole show ( and maybe a soft piano ) . Very simple strings writing , a bass pedal note and some dim/min/aug chords , during the drama scenes. No music during the investigations, action or during the questioning.

As already said, sometimes you dont need more. But I still prefer something really composed like a string pad, than using a omnisphere loop you didnt even program, clearly.


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## dgburns (Jan 31, 2013)

mverta @ Thu Jan 31 said:


> Nazi guards just did what they were told as well, and made their boss happy, too.
> 
> 
> Even in that insanely over-the-top-parallel, you'll still notice that everyone has a choice about what quality of work they provide. I wouldn't produce 1-finger bullshit no matter how much you paid me; music deserves better than that, it's been good to me.
> ...



just finished a show intro seq that is the most minimal thing I've ever done.Also the hardest thing I've ever done.it takes a sh$tload of courage to shut the f&k up and let a small motif carry the day.The video peeps said they couldn't get that damn melody out of their heads.And it's nice not to have to YELL musically to get my point across as I can admit I've done in the past few years.Nice to get away from the pomp of thinking MY music is the be all end all.

just sayin'


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## mark812 (Jan 31, 2013)

_Breaking Bad_ is interesting to mention in this context. It's one of the best TV shows ever made (if not the best) and the soundtrack is very minimal, with some occasional http://vimeo.com/56587349 (exceptions). :lol: 

However, it works really great imo.


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## chrisr (Jan 31, 2013)

aww i thought this might be a thread in _praise_ of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalism


right - I'm off to listen to the soundtrack to "The Belly of an Architect"


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## Alex Cuervo (Jan 31, 2013)

I agree - Breaking Bad has excellent music.

Reducing minimalist sound-designed music to "one finger bullshit" from on top of jealousy mountain is hilarious. It's also pretty naive - the way my mom can't tell the difference between the Rolling Stones and the Stone Roses - it all sounds the same to her.


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## gsilbers (Jan 31, 2013)

would the score for the show HOUSE be considred minimalistic one finger BS? 

cause man those are some very clever sound designs and scores. production techniques where very good. sure it sounds easy to make , but its like techno music, in theory is simple but it has its tricks and style and its all in the sound design and modern production techiques.


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 31, 2013)

Some great posts here this UK afternoon. Breaking Bad is indeed another good example (only just finished season one.... a little behind the curve here...)

I dunno. There appears to be a mindset around some quarters that anything other than dense classical orchestration is a sell out... that a subdued, simple, electronic or minimalist score is "getting away with it" rather than an artistic choice. Maybe that's not really what some here are saying... but that's how it comes over to me sometimes.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 31, 2013)

For me, it's all about context, what best works for a given scene. It's not about writing great, full cues that stand on their own (apologies to the master, J. Goldsmith).

But.. is there a problem with a new breed of directors who don't know much about film scores, the true potential in choosing from a wide variety of genres/styles/instrumentation, who don't know how to 'talk' music, how to communicate with the composer? Oh yeah - I see it more and more. :cry:


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## doctornine (Jan 31, 2013)

Alex Cuervo @ Thu Jan 31 said:


> Reducing minimalist sound-designed music to "one finger bullshit" from on top of jealousy mountain is hilarious. It's also pretty naive - the way my mom can't tell the difference between the Rolling Stones and the Stone Roses - it all sounds the same to her.



Nicely put - couldn't agree more.

o-[][]-o 

If I had a £ for every time I heard a rock muso say : that computer music, it's all easy, all you do is stick samples together.... that doesn't take any *REAL* musical ability.....

Well, I think I'd be comfortably well off.


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## reddognoyz (Jan 31, 2013)

I want to hold down a key on an Atmosphere pad in Omni and be done with 30 seconds of scoring. That would be okay by me : )


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## rpaillot (Jan 31, 2013)

Anybody heard agatha Christie 's poirot ? 
The old seasons music is old fashioned but the more recent 
Seasons from 2010-2013 have a great score, brilliant classical writing 
and also very effective with the picture


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 31, 2013)

> I wouldn't produce 1-finger bullshit no matter how much you paid me; music deserves better than that, it's been good to me.



Mike, before you liken me to a Nazi and assume I'm a musical nihilist who doesn't care about the quality of my work, maybe you should know what the assignment was.

But since you didn't ask, I'll tell you: it was an on-air promo for a :30 network soap opera (later cut down to shorter versions). They had been going through library music for hours, and my wife (a writer-producer who worked for the network at the time) mentioned in passing on the phone that they were getting frustrated.

She described the scene in the promo, and I knew right away that a musical sound effect was what this wanted. I whipped it up on the off chance that they'd use it - and they did, and they were very happy.

So was I, trust me.

Of course it's ironic that the most lucrative project I've ever landed used a small fraction of the training I've had - which is why I posted the story. Yet I'd do it again today, without feeling like I'd sacrificed one iota of integrity, and probably even without setting up any concentration camps. 

It's the old story about the guy who's called in to fix the power outage. He climbs down a manhole and taps something once with a hammer, then says, "That'll be $10,000: $5 for my time, $9,995 for knowing where to tap."


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## passenger57 (Jan 31, 2013)

I'm happy Breaking Bad was brought up because I love that score and it's unique approach. Check out this interesting article on the director/composer collaboration.
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/09/ ... -composer/

Now to my original topic - Has nothing to do with blaming the composer, being nieve, being jealous, out of touch, or not appreciating the finer points of sampling a piece of lettuce rubbing against a feather in liquid nitrogen to capture that perfect emotion. 
I'm just talking about an omnisphere pad being held down for 30 seconds and calling it a cue. :lol:

That said, I wish I started this thread in a more positive light. I was just venting and having a bit of a laugh, my apologies for the negativity. 



> aww i thought this might be a thread in praise of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalism
> 
> 
> right - I'm off to listen to the soundtrack to "The Belly of an Architect"


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## mverta (Feb 1, 2013)

Hey, Nick - 

I wasn't actually going there, merely making a general point that "I just do what I'm told" isn't much of a defensible argument, ever, and is actually the basis for a whole lot of heinous shit, that's all.

Plus, the 800-pound-gorilla in the room is that there is a glut of "composers" these days who couldn't give a flying f about music, composing, or anything, but have a computer and just enough spare change to buy a couple libraries, then use the tools to tool the industry for some cash, a leave it cheapened and spent while they go off to do whatever else they actually do care about.

I'm not particularly cool with that, either; there's just nothing to be done about it. Actually, what I try and do is teach them, but they don't particularly want or need to learn.


Anyway, that's my point, and it isn't really about you or your work or your gig or whatever. 

_Mike


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## cc64 (Feb 1, 2013)

Mmmh I think you're completely wrong here Mike. I'm pretty sure they spend a lot of money on bandwidth to circumvent having to pay for their libraries. ; )

Claude




mverta @ Fri Feb 01 said:


> Plus, the 800-pound-gorilla in the room is that there is a glut of "composers" these days who couldn't give a flying f about music, composing, or anything, but have a computer and just enough spare change to buy a couple libraries, then use the tools to tool the industry for some cash, a leave it cheapened and spent while they go off to do whatever else they actually do care about.
> 
> 
> _Mike


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 1, 2013)

mverta @ Fri Feb 01 said:


> Hey, Nick -
> 
> I wasn't actually going there, merely making a general point that "I just do what I'm told" isn't much of a defensible argument, ever, and is actually the basis for a whole lot of heinous shit, that's all.
> 
> ...



Wow, the conflation grows ever wider. Rather than discuss that point here - a thread about minimalism seems like a great idea to me - I've started a new thread here - http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3678847 which I've called "composers who aren't composers". I realised I personally don't know anyone that answers to that description, but it could be naievity, so I'd encourage anyone who feels passionately about this to post a response there - I'm genuinely interested to know who these people are, and how widespread it is.


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## Peter Alexander (Feb 2, 2013)

From the Hollywood Reporter covering points being discussed here:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/video/ ... iew-404529


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 2, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Sat Feb 02 said:


> From the Hollywood Reporter covering points being discussed here:
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/video/ ... iew-404529



Wow, Peter that's a top steer. I'm only 20 mins in so far - gotta go out shortly - but spot on. Amazing how much common ground there is among these diverse, hugely talented and popular composers - and how hard and important simplicity is is an overriding theme of the first third of this (along with how important listening to the director is). It looks like the drive for minimalism is really important - not sure how much is current trend, and how much that's a universal truth.

I remembered what Hans said too, who seems to agree with many on that panel - each time you start something you feel inadequate and you've no idea where to begin. This is a tremendously encouraging and inspiring video, thanks - I look forward to watching the rest.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Feb 2, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ 2/2/2013 said:


> From the Hollywood Reporter covering points being discussed here:
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/video/ ... iew-404529



Thank you so much for bringing that wonderful interview back to light for me. What a fantastic way to start the weekend! Must-View for all here, me thinks...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 2, 2013)

> Anyway, that's my point, and it isn't really about you or your work or your gig or whatever.



Yeah, and as I PM-ed you, my post sounded like I was totally bent out of shape. I'm not.

As a matter of fact, I'm sort of with the Greek Nick - I think it might be in the other thread? - who says he doesn't know how to work with loops.

Well, it's not that I don't know how, it's that my brain doesn't work that way. I sit and get mesmerized by a loop, then get frustrated that it doesn't do what I want it to. Copy/paste/editing is much faster. 

I had same experience the first time I tried my brand new Yamaha RX-15 drum machine in 1985. Stringing patterns together was really frustrating! Right away I built an A/B switchbox between the drum machine and keyboard (a DX-7) going into my sequencer's single MIDI in so I could play the drum parts in from the pads.

That was the last time I used a drum pattern, with the exception of a couple of Stylus RMX parts.


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## Alex Cuervo (Feb 2, 2013)

So, it's safe to assume that those of you who resent the "one-finger-wonders" as part of the problem would refuse paid orchestration gigs from them, right?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Feb 2, 2013)

I think the complexity of the score in tv is also obviously greatly influenced by the type of show being scored. You wouldn't write the same thing for a series like Game of Thrones or a Discovery doc on WWII, as you would when scoring a contemporary family drama series, for eg. When composing for a series like that, which I've been on for 18 months, I'm often told to pull back anytime I try to go big(ger), to have more complexity in the counterpoint and/or arrangement. And if the acting is great, the photography and editing are engaging, it's quite a challenge to add just the right thing, to fit in, not take over, to not commit the sin of taking the viewer out of the emotion by conflicting. Honestly, it's a humbling experience, leaving a lot out, simplifying instead of writing for the spotlight.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Feb 2, 2013)

While there are a lot of composers doing the rounds these days who are not formally trained like myself, there is also another factor which is being overlooked. 

That is the fact that films have evolved. 

30 years ago, the special effects were not so good, and you really needed music to cover up for that. These days, you will find some scenes with no music at all or really pushed back where sound design takes over. 

There is no point in focusing on bad films and directors who dont know what they are doing. These people exist in every sphere of life. 

With all the epic music going on in TDKR for example, the fight between Batman and Bane was without a single note of music.

There are different schools of thoughts. Michael Haneke is not going to use any music even if he is making a thriller movie like Cache. 

Well, then one might ask - is it really a thriller movie? 

If a director gets a dodgy composer on board then it does speak somewhat about the director himself. 

There are always good people and guys looking to make a quick buck in any industry. Just that in music, there was no technology earlier and now because of tools like Omnisphere you literally can hold a pad down and do a few cues.

But then what next?

Thats just one or two cues. Eventually, if you do land up a job which requires you to really shine and rise to the occasion, then what? 

I bet most fakers will fail obviously.

And, directors who are real storytellers and really want to speak something through the music of the film, they are still there.

I attended The School of Sound in London once and there were these film makers from Paraguay. They believed that films absolutely needed no music. Why should they? It works without music.

And they have a huge following, awards whatever. I think movies do need music but perhaps, not for their kind of films.

This is a really broad subject. 

Sometimes, the actor has done such a great job, its better to leave the scene as is because the performance is coming through. 

If you cant really say anything with your music in a scene, then there is your answer not to score it. 

Minimalism was there before as well. I dont remember China Town having a lot of music. In any case, Goldsmith did it in a record 5 days.

This isnt something that is the industry reflection. Even back in my masters, we had case studies of films where there was too much music even from back in the 50's and 60's. 

Ever seen Forbidden planet? That had very little music - in fact only theremins and some synth stuff. 

No orchestra. 

But then you look at Star Wars, its carpet music with big cues and lots of counterpoint etc.

Forbidden Planet worked too. 

These days, when someone is walking on gravel, you can really hear it in 5.1 and if that is the sound element being played, there is no need to score it.

And then you have the mindless, big hollywood blockbusters where there is music throughout. Once again, because of a bad script or to cover up for lack of excitement, you need continuous music.

Its our job to make it work best.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Feb 2, 2013)

Plus they are making a lot more TV shows and films than they used to. Which means, they always need more music. 

Same goes for advertising. Channels are now 24/7 which means they need to air something all the time. 

There is so much music that needs to go into things. So much of it is cost effective and needs to be done really fast. So they hire, someone's boy friend or son or someone they met somewhere because its that quick and there is no quality control because they are just trying fill up the air time. 

This is the same in India. When I was growing up, there we used to watch songs on tv only once a week, on a friday. They would play the top ten songs. Channels used to go off air. There were like 10 tv series in total probably. 

Now, its 24/7 with over 300 channels each of them have ads programs and what not. 

But someone writing music for a bad tv show to make some money is not going to score the next Spielberg film. its just not going to happen. I still think if you really have nothing to say with your music, you will not work with the kind of people we dream of working. They will always be the guys who want to make a quick buck and just get the job done. 

Fine! Unless, all the sane people in the world have been bitten by a virus infecting zombie, they will always work with someone who is good.


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 2, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sat Feb 02 said:


> I think the complexity of the score in tv is also obviously greatly influenced by the type of show being scored. You wouldn't write the same thing for a series like Game of Thrones or a Discovery doc on WWII, as you would when scoring a contemporary family drama series, for eg. When composing for a series like that, which I've been on for 18 months, I'm often told to pull back anytime I try to go big(ger), to have more complexity in the counterpoint and/or arrangement. And if the acting is great, the photography and editing are engaging, it's quite a challenge to add just the right thing, to fit in, not take over, to not commit the sin of taking the viewer out of the emotion by conflicting. Honestly, it's a humbling experience, leaving a lot out, simplifying instead of writing for the spotlight.



Great post, Ned.


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## passenger57 (Feb 2, 2013)

> And if the acting is great, the photography and editing are engaging, it's quite a challenge to add just the right thing, to fit in, not take over, to not commit the sin of taking the viewer out of the emotion by conflicting. Honestly, it's a humbling experience, leaving a lot out, simplifying instead of writing for the spotlight.





> Great post, Ned.


This is so true!! I recently scored a scene with amazing actors, directing, lighting, editing. The first part of the scene needed no music at all, the second part only needed very subtle shading musically. On the flip side, I've done scores where the acting was bad and I was tasked to 'help it out' by having alot going on musically - not fun to be in that position but I'm sure we've all been there.


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## toomanynotes (Feb 11, 2013)

The godfather Prt 1 & 2 are perfect examples for small/large musical content in a well written/acted film


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