# Piano Sustain Pedal Plugin



## constaneum (Feb 1, 2014)

I'm looking for a "virtual" Piano Sustain Pedal or some sort of pedal plugin which is able to control from velocity 1 - 127 instead of just pedaling it ON/OFF. Any recommendation? Thanks !


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## TGV (Feb 1, 2014)

Your question is not really understandable. Why do you call it a virtual sustain? What do you need it for?


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## constaneum (Feb 1, 2014)

Let's just say CC64 doesn't help much. I need it for controlling the amount of sustain i wanna apply to the piano sound. Something for Galaxy VIntage D's Half Pedaling function. With reference to the usual manual, here's the description for "Half Pedaling"

"Enables the use of a continuous sustain pedal for ’half-pedalling’. On a piano you
can decide how far the dampers are lifted from the strings by controlling how far down
you press the pedal. This affects the release time and the amount of resonance. When
the Halfpedal button is unchecked, a continuous sustain pedal is transformed into an
on/off switch. (For half-pedalling you need a special continuous sustain pedal, which
outputs midi values from 1-127 instead of an on/off command.)"

Hope this statement is much clearer. Instead of purchasing a "special continuous sustain pedal", can i do it with just a sustain pedal plugin? Any recommendation?


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## mk282 (Feb 1, 2014)

Well, you can always automate the CC64 in your DAW...


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## constaneum (Feb 1, 2014)

But CC64 only turns on/off for sustain which seems like not suitable for that as mentioned in the manual? Correct me if im wrong.


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## TGV (Feb 1, 2014)

There seem to be more people with this problem. Did you try drawing a very low value for CC64, e.g. 20 or 30, instead of 64? And turn on the half-pedal switch in the interface (just asking)?

Here's a longish thread about the same problem: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthre ... lf%20.html


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## mk282 (Feb 1, 2014)

constaneum @ 1.2.2014 said:


> But CC64 only turns on/off for sustain which seems like not suitable for that as mentioned in the manual? Correct me if im wrong.



Nope. CC64 is just like any other CC, it has values from 0 to 127. Your DAW should be able to draw this in.


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## korgscrew (Feb 1, 2014)

I think the trouble with it is that when a piano VST sees CC64 it turns on the sustain pedal regardless of value.

You could try...

http://www.bewaryprods.com/software/pro ... sMIDIfier/

This way you can get a Expression pedal and change the Exp pedal to CC value64 in Transmidifier. Your piano VST will see this as a sustain pedal but with variable CC value.

Does that make sense?

Or..

Change the controller of sustain in your Piano to Expression CC.

Does that make sense?


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## TGV (Feb 1, 2014)

It's the plugin that determines how each value should be handled. Most piano plugins treat CC64 as 0-63 is pedal up, 64-127 is pedal on. Your sequencer might try to "help" you when you're drawing CC64 by moving everything up to 127 or down to 0, but you should be able to override that.


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## mk282 (Feb 1, 2014)

I'm pretty sure that Galaxy has scripted their pianos so it understands the full CC64 range.


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## constaneum (Feb 1, 2014)

mk282 @ Sat Feb 01 said:


> I'm pretty sure that Galaxy has scripted their pianos so it understands the full CC64 range.



I doubt it. Tested myself. Played with CC64 and it's only turning on/off the sustain pedal, no control on the amount of sustain applied. Even their manual has no description at all on midi CC parameters. I've also emailed them to seem more info. (o)


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## pavolbrezina (Feb 1, 2014)

I rather want plugin that can switch polarity of sustain pedal.


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## Luca Capozzi (Feb 1, 2014)

Yamaha FC3? http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-pr ... mode=model

Cheers,
Luca


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## TGV (Feb 1, 2014)

pavolbrezina @ Sat Feb 01 said:


> I rather want plugin that can switch polarity of sustain pedal.


I don't know what sequencer you use, but that's almost trivial in Logic X, and probably in Cubase too.


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## pavolbrezina (Feb 1, 2014)

TGV @ Sat Feb 01 said:


> pavolbrezina @ Sat Feb 01 said:
> 
> 
> > I rather want plugin that can switch polarity of sustain pedal.
> ...



So let me know, in general, I am using Cakewalk Sonar. Thank you


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## korgscrew (Feb 1, 2014)

Luca Capozzi @ Sat Feb 01 said:


> Yamaha FC3? http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-pr ... mode=model
> 
> Cheers,
> Luca



This!


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## TGV (Feb 1, 2014)

pavolbrezina @ Sat Feb 01 said:


> So let me know, in general, I am using Cakewalk Sonar. Thank you


I don't know about Sonar, but if it has a midi transformation option, that's all you need. Otherwise, get TransMIDIfier, and make it invert CC64.


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## gregjazz (Feb 1, 2014)

There are few possible issues going on if you're unable to get a continuous CC64 sustain pedal working:

1. The physical limitation of your sustain pedal. Not all pedals output a continuous signal with a 0-127 range--many just toggle between 0 and 127.

2. The physical limitation of your MIDI controller. Even if you have an actual continuous sustain pedal (such as the Yamaha FC3, which is what I use), that doesn't mean your keyboard will be able to use it.

3. Unless they've changed it recently, Cubase treats CC64 differently, only allowing it to be an on/off control rather than a continuous controller like the other controller numbers. If you're using Cubase, you will need to map your sustain pedal to a different CC other than CC64. If the piano plugin itself allows you to set the sustain pedal controller, you can set it to the alternate CC--otherwise you'll need to transform the controller back to CC64. This can easily be done using a Kontakt multiscript, for example.


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## constaneum (Feb 1, 2014)

The piano plugin doesn't have anything which is assignable for the sustain portion. Kontakt multiscript?? something like Mind Control? =D


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## gregjazz (Feb 1, 2014)

constaneum @ Sat Feb 01 said:


> Kontakt multiscript?? something like Mind Control? =D


Off the top of my head, I think there's a multiscript called "Transformer" that comes with Kontakt that can transform a different CC # into CC 64.


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## Scrianinoff (Feb 2, 2014)

gregjazz @ Sat 01 Feb said:


> 3. Unless they've changed it recently, Cubase treats CC64 differently, only allowing it to be an on/off control rather than a continuous controller like the other controller numbers. If you're using Cubase, you will need to map your sustain pedal to a different CC other than CC64.


I am using a Yamaha Clavinova digital piano that has a built in continuous damper pedal that outputs 0-127 cc64 data. I am playing a setup of Cubase and VE Pro with several piano libraries daily, some of which have continuous cc64 control. I have never experienced this cc64 on/off behaviour of Cubase.

So, I think they indeed changed that recently, at least from Cubase 6.0 onwards. I did not use versions 2.0 to 5.5 of Cubase, so I don't know whether Cubase had this 'feature' back then.


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## gregjazz (Feb 2, 2014)

Scrianinoff @ Sun Feb 02 said:


> I am playing a setup of Cubase and VE Pro with several piano libraries daily, some of which have continuous cc64 control. I have never experienced this cc64 on/off behaviour of Cubase.
> 
> So, I think they indeed changed that recently, at least from Cubase 6.0 onwards. I did not use versions 2.0 to 5.5 of Cubase, so I don't know whether Cubase had this 'feature' back then.


Ah, you're right--I just read up on it, and they changed it to make CC64 behave like any other MIDI controller.

The reason I was under that impression was because I recently had a customer (Cubase user) mention problems with CC64 only going between on and off states rather than being a continuous value. So in retrospect, he must have been using an older version of Cubase.


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## constaneum (Feb 2, 2014)

I thought CC64 in general is only for turning ON and OFF the sustain states rather than being able to control the amount of sustain applied from 0-127 ? hmm....


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## Pingu (Feb 2, 2014)

constaneum @ Mon Feb 03 said:


> I thought CC64 in general is only for turning ON and OFF the sustain states rather than being able to control the amount of sustain applied from 0-127 ? hmm....



That's certainly the way it's been used for many years, but actually it's just another CC#, perfectly capable of a full range of values. It does depend on your sequencer though - I'm afraid I know nothing about Sonar.

I'm using the old CME triple pedal - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GPP3/ If you can find one of these on ebay it would go part way to solving your problems. The sustain pedal does send a continuous value in the way you're looking for. And it's USB (and seems to be USB compliant - I'm currently using it in Win7 x64 without any installation), which means you don't have the possibility that your keyboard is taking its output and converting it into an on/off signal before it reaches your PC.


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