# Why can't orchestrators claim songwriting credits in Broadway musicals?



## fantasyvn (Jan 2, 2019)

In contemporary popular music, a major singer may easily claim songwriting credit even if they contribute only a few words. And producers, who arrange the songs, often claim credits as well.

But it is different for orchestrators in the Broadway musical world. If you have read the book, The Sound of Broadway Music A Book of Orchestrators and Orchestrations by Steven Suskin, you will be amazed at the orchestrators' work. The book confirmed that most composers only write the song melodies, with simple piano arrangement or demo. 800-900 pages' worth of score are completed by an orchestrator (possibly with some assistants).

So why can't orchestrators claim songwriting credits in Broadway musicals? Will it change in the future?


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## studiostuff (Jan 2, 2019)

Business. 

Your choice as a songwriter is between having a song demo in your scrapbook that no-one will ever hear, or... A guy named Colonel Tom offers to have Elvis record and release the song if you are willing to give Elvis a taste... It's your decision. Elvis doesn't "claim" anything. He offers you a choice. 

Producers don't claim credit. They bring something to the recording session of your song that you may have never thought to contribute, and that makes the song a global success. I bet you could have refused the producer's hook... But you realize it's what your song was missing. 

An arrangement is not equal in the law to original creation. Orchestrators are skillful contributors. But Mel Brooks wrote Springtime for Hitler and Germany... 

It's simply the law. 

Why shouldn't recording engineers receive a writing credit when it could be argued that their skillful mix/mastering is what created the hit. 

It may not seem fair to you, but it is the way it is.


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## JJP (Jan 2, 2019)

Broadway orchestrators do often get points on the show in their deal because they contribute so much.


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## Daryl (Jan 3, 2019)

JJP said:


> Broadway orchestrators do often get points on the show in their deal because they contribute so much.


That's interesting. Whose share does that come out of?


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## Desire Inspires (Jan 4, 2019)

I get songwriting credits for my Broadway musicals.


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## JJP (Jan 4, 2019)

It doesn't come out of anyone's share. I believe in most cases it's a percentage of the show's revenue. It's a negotiated thing with orchestrators in addition to basic scale.

Haven't looked at this in a while, though, so my memory is a bit hazy.


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## JJP (Jan 4, 2019)

@Desire Inspires Do you orchestrate for Broadway shows?


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## Desire Inspires (Jan 4, 2019)

JJP said:


> @Desire Inspires Do you orchestrate for Broadway shows?



@JJP, do I? Well.........


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## JJP (Jan 4, 2019)

I thought I heard that in the pit at the Winter Garden. No wait, maybe that was one of the stage hands' ringtones.


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## erica-grace (Jan 4, 2019)

Why can't orchestrators claim songwriting credits in Broadway musicals? 

Because that's what the contract says.

There is also responsibility. If the show bombs (or film) and the music is partially blamed, the composer gets the blame not the orchestrator. With some exception, maybe.


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## bryla (Jan 4, 2019)

The actual conception of the music comes from the composer so if later the show is recorded by a pop artist for example, the orchestrator has had nothing to do with that.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 5, 2019)

fantasyvn said:


> In contemporary popular music, a major singer may easily claim songwriting credit even if they contribute only a few words. And producers, who arrange the songs, often claim credits as well.



Not sure about Broadway, but producers in music today are still relatively incognito on composition credits, despite the fact that their role in that area is probably the most important and pervasive it's ever been in recorded music history.

People want a solitary figure, an icon. The problem is today, there isn't a Beethoven or Mozart or Bach or one name...so the media have to pretend a more limited authorship.

I could be wrong.


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## Daryl (Jan 5, 2019)

JJP said:


> It doesn't come out of anyone's share. I believe in most cases it's a percentage of the show's revenue. It's a negotiated thing with orchestrators in addition to basic scale.


I see. I just wondered, because obviously the composer, lyricist and writer of the book each get a percentage of gross box office, so I wondered whether or not the orchestrator's percentage would come out of that pot.


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