# For those who took the Hans Masterclass.



## Studio E (May 15, 2018)

Can you give me an idea of how long the course is overall? I've heard that it's quite inspiring, and to be honest, that might be the most helpful this for me in this moment. Is it something that gets technical enough to take notes, or would it be good just to listen through regardless? The reason I ask is I'm thinking of just watching it on a mobile device during off times at my day job. I often have a spare 15 minutes to an hour. Maybe this is something that I could just fit in like that? 

Just asking. Thank you!


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## fretti (May 15, 2018)

About 30 classes (if I’m correct, recalling it just out of memory), length depending, from 10 min to about 25. some topics divided into two videos. It‘s not like „how to write THE theme for that specific moment“ so you don‘t have to take notes in that way. It‘s more like a what you can or should do, to develop the understanding of the film and get quicker in writing. It‘s definitely inspiring, to hear someone like HZ talking about synths, writing for orchestras, talking with directors etc.
Also you can watch them as often as you want, so it‘s also something to just wach on the train, in your breaks etc. Without having to write down everything he said, or have Cubase opened next to you to try out imidiately what he has done. That is imo not the case.
What I like most probably is when he remembers on why and what he has done for a specific movie/character e.g Batman and Jack Sparrow and so on. For 99$ I think it was a worth while investment, though I still have to put in a lot of work and time to get something out of it for the future and my writing. But that’s always the case with learning right?!


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## Mackieguy (May 15, 2018)

Studio E said:


> Can you give me an idea of how long the course is overall? I've heard that it's quite inspiring, and to be honest, that might be the most helpful this for me in this moment. Is it something that gets technical enough to take notes, or would it be good just to listen through regardless? The reason I ask is I'm thinking of just watching it on a mobile device during off times at my day job. I often have a spare 15 minutes to an hour. Maybe this is something that I could just fit in like that?
> 
> Just asking. Thank you!


I took it and while it was fantastic, it's important to note that it's not really that technical and is more about the best ways to understand how to tell a story using music. There's a lot of info on how to interact with people (directors, musicians, etc.) as well as ideas on how to be creative and at your best. There is a smattering of technology discussions here and there about DAWs (mainly Cubase), sample libraries and such. But there isn't anything like a detailed breakdown of a particular score or anything like that. Zimmer kind of assumes you already are creative enough to come up with your own music. The biggest value I got out of it was how to THINK about music and orchestration in the context of helping the director tell the best story possible.

My $0.02.


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## Studio E (May 15, 2018)

Thanks guys. This is exactly what I was wanting to know.


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## Garry (May 15, 2018)

There is now a mobile app (both iPhone & iPad), so it's really easy to dip in and out of in your spare moments, and the format (10-20 minutes per lesson) really lends itself well to that.

It's not technical at all. He's very rarely in front of Cubase: it's much more of his philosophy of the whole business of working as a composer, rather than technical 'how-to' stuff. He talks about themes, stories, working with different functional roles (director, musician, producer, audience).

I watch and enjoy it on 2 very different levels: I'm not a professional musician, I'm a hobbyist, so sometimes, it gets a bit too specific (I'm never going to work with a director!). So, sometimes, I'm learning something interesting from a music perspective (his classic line of 'I like writing in D' - when he explains this, it makes a lot of sense). But at other times, I'm listening & learning from a totally different perspective. People often talk about how working in teams (I work in neuroscience research), and in particular, leading teams, is like conducting an orchestra. This analogy is beautifully expounded by HZ: with my neuroscience research hat on, I learned more about management and team interaction, than any of the useless management seminars I'm frequently sent on. I have often considered making this course mandatory for some of my colleagues, but I'm not sure if you're not also a musician, if the analogy would be too distant for them to be useful, I don't know.

I mention this only to say that: don't come at this for a technical breakdown of how to compose/orchestrate etc. It's not that. It's Hans' perspective on how to get by in the music industry, and there's lots to enjoy from that, even for an outside observer like me, and lot's to take away that you can make directly relevant to your own, non-music world. With regard to taking notes: there are course notes, for every lesson - I haven't really dived into these too much, and they're certainly not required to enjoy the lessons fully, but the 1 or 2 that I did look at, gave good consise summaries of what Hans said in the lesson, so no need to take notes.

There are other masterclasses, where I'm hoping it will be more of a technical 'how-to': I bought the 1year pass, so the classes by Armin van Burren and Deadmau5, whilst I'm not interested in the types of music they play, I'm hoping will be more of a technical insight, so if that's more your interest, they may be a better place to start (I don't know though, as I'm just starting going through them). Then there's the masterclass by Herbie Hancock, which I expect to be more along the lines of Hans' lessons.


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## ed buller (May 15, 2018)

EpicDude said:


> I love HZ but his masterclass was disappointing and misleading. It's like buying Gordon Ramsay masterclass and all he tells you is how to dress for a dinner date.



Really ? I strongly urge you to revisit this . There is so much in this class that is useful . I suspect it was never Hans's intention to teach you how to write an ostinato . What he does tell you ...at length is what your ultimate goal in this game is ...story telling . He painstakingly takes you through that process and gives you some great examples from his films . He shares with you how he adds the right personality to his themes and how in conversation with the directors he shapes the music . Pretty much vital .


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## fretti (May 15, 2018)

ed buller said:


> Really ? I strongly urge you to revisit this . There is so much in this class that is useful . I suspect it was never Hans's intention to teach you how to write an ostinato . What he does tell you ...at length is what your ultimate goal in this game is ...story telling . He painstakingly takes you through that process and gives you some great examples from his films . He shares with you how he adds the right personality to his themes and how in conversation with the directors he shapes the music . Pretty much vital .


Agree! Also comes this to mind:


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## MatFluor (May 15, 2018)

The Masterclass is exactly that - a masterclass.

If you expect it to be a "how to write music" course, it's not. It's more a philosophical thing and how he tackles the challenges in Film scoring, and wants to give some stuff to think about.

It's not really "hands on", no nitty gritty deep-dive into compositions, sound design or engineering. It's about how he approaches it, what goes through his mind.

There are many pointers inside the class that are worth looking at, but at the same time not everyones cup of tea. It more useful for a more or less proficient composer that wants to go into film music - it's not for the complete amateur with big dreams, but rather "Hey, I scored a few short films, had some struggle with it - how does Hans deal with the Big Budget stuff". As said, it's a masterclass - so it's his view on the industry, his view on how to work - it's not a "How to score films" class, but a "How does Hans Zimmer approach scoring for films" thing.

i hope that helped.


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## asherpope (May 15, 2018)

EpicDude said:


> I love HZ but his masterclass was disappointing and misleading. It's like buying Gordon Ramsay masterclass and all he tells you is how to dress for a dinner date.


Ha! Unfortunately I have to agree with you.


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## Jeremy Gillam (May 15, 2018)

I think watching the HZ Masterclass would be a great use of downtime at your day job. It’s worth watching a couple times anyway so you can always revisit it for a more in-depth experience when you have a chance.


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## fretti (May 15, 2018)

EpicDude said:


> I love HZ but his masterclass was disappointing and misleading. It's like buying Gordon Ramsay masterclass and all he tells you is how to dress for a dinner date.


Well cooking is different than writing music. A masterclass about writing literature will also not show you basics about how to write words, sentences or how to actually write the story. A masterclass from Picasso won’t show you how to hold your brush and mix your colors.
It think that’s the difference between a „master“class and videos/classes about basics. I mean there is not much HZ could actually show you about music theory or so that most people already know. And there is definitively no blueprint to how he came up with the synth sounds for Batman. But by sharing his views and thoughts about how to approach all that is imho worth more than any „Hans Shows you his Cubase project and Chord for Pirates 2“. Also I find it very interesting how he talks about and with musicians, directors, producers, his „writing“tips, his own fears etc.
For many upcoming composers probably great insights...


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## ThomasNL (May 15, 2018)

I was disappointed too at first. I also expected more technical lessons. But now i understand the incredible value of his lessons, since working on some real projects with directors and producers. The musical aspect is best learned via composing and orchestrating books or simply by covering songs. But how to tell a story with it, and how to talk with directors or musicians, that is some valuable stuff right there. I mean, at the end of the day he also just fiddles around until he thinks, "ah that sounds cool", just like us


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## Jeremy Gillam (May 16, 2018)

I would actually love to see an extended edition of the HZ Masterclass that is like 12 hours of uncut footage of Hans explaining templates, signal flow, file naming, how to label cues and revisions etc, just all the full on technical nerd stuff, maybe with an intermittent dad joke thrown in here and there to lighten things up. Might be a tough sell for Masterclass.com though.


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## wickedw (May 16, 2018)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> I would actually love to see an extended edition of the HZ Masterclass that is like 12 hours of uncut footage of Hans explaining templates, signal flow, file naming, how to label cues and revisions etc, just all the full on technical nerd stuff, maybe with an intermittent dad joke thrown in here and there to lighten things up. Might be a tough sell for Masterclass.com though.



JunkieXL covers quite a bit of this on his studio time series, really useful insights into his process, especially in some of the specials he does. I also think Christian Henson has made some videos on his process & label schemes.

I haven't taken the masterclass yet, but was thinking about it lately, purely because I'm interested in his philosophy and ideas on movie scoring. From what I gather it's pretty inspiring. But if you're looking for more technical topics, really check out Tom his studio time.


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## fretti (May 16, 2018)

EpicDude said:


> BTW if you think there's not much people can learn from HZ when it comes to music, you're very wrong.


Not thinking that, not saying it either. But it seems like many people expect a blueprint or a manual from him on wich chord they should use in that specific moment. The masterclass is full of music, most he does is talk about music. 
I don't understand what people want from him when they say it's not "technical enough"?! Do you want him to show a scene from Sherlock Holmes and then show you his Cubase project and what he does there? Do you want him to show how he spots his scenes? That's certainly interesting, so is JXLs Studio Time, but that won't make your scoring better. 
I also don't think the title is misleading, because he actually talks and discussion -and by that in the end also teaches- about how he scores films, what you should pay attention to, what is most important when you score, how you talk to the people who want you to score and so on....


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## Jeremy Gillam (May 16, 2018)

I’m a fan of JXL and Christian’s channels and recommend them too!


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## d.healey (May 16, 2018)

It's more like an interview than a masterclass but I found lots of useful nuggets.


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## Akarin (May 16, 2018)

There are interesting nuggets to be found in this masterclass indeed but when it comes to learning about film scoring, nothing comes close to JunkieXL Studio Time. There, I didn't get nuggets only but a full featured course that had me pause many times just to try out what Tom was talking about. 

It may also be due to the fact that I may not be the target audience for a "master" class.


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## hollo (May 16, 2018)

On average a classical musician goes to music school (can be 2, 3, or even 8 years) then conservatory, - 4 years,
then academy 5 years, then when getting the diplom, we can say he or she is an artist.
*That is the time when they use to go to some masterclass.*


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## PaulieDC (May 16, 2018)

Mackieguy said:


> I took it and while it was fantastic, it's important to note that it's not really that technical and is more about the best ways to understand how to tell a story using music. There's a lot of info on how to interact with people (directors, musicians, etc.) as well as ideas on how to be creative and at your best. There is a smattering of technology discussions here and there about DAWs (mainly Cubase), sample libraries and such. But there isn't anything like a detailed breakdown of a particular score or anything like that. Zimmer kind of assumes you already are creative enough to come up with your own music. The biggest value I got out of it was how to THINK about music and orchestration in the context of helping the director tell the best story possible.
> 
> My $0.02.


I wanted to try and describe the class and you nailed it. I'm a rookie and for me, to get insight on everything from how to build out a tune to what a director expects and everything in between was phenomenal. Every couple months I listen through it again while commuting (I had signed up a week before it was released) and it never gets old. The Question and Answer composing in the beginning was worth price of admission for me.

I would say this would benefit most folks that are new or up and coming. If you have written and sold scores and work fairly steady in the industry you probably needed bother, although any class like this usually has something you can glean.


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## d.healey (May 16, 2018)

hollo said:


> then when getting the diplom, we can say he or she is an artist.


A piece of paper does not an artist make.


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## hollo (May 16, 2018)

hehe - sorry about my grammar, I mean after all those years, *talented* musicians use to take masterclasses. 
It's not about the diplom, but the time spent on education and practicing.
(Even an autodidact, good artist is spending a lot of time to get the skill.)

I want to thanks for wickedw mentioning Christian Henson!
I just went there and enjoying his videos and his style.

Cheers, 
Joseph


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## PaulieDC (May 16, 2018)

d.healey said:


> A piece of paper does not an artist make.


What are you talking about? I watched that class, went upstairs, wrote a score and sold it to Spielberg. Darn tootin that diploma makes me an artist. Wait, what's that noise?? Oh, my alarm clock went off... time to get up...


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## fretti (May 17, 2018)

EpicDude said:


> If we had something like HZ Studio Time, that would definitely help a lot people.


Yeah, would be cool in general to have something like Mix-with-the-masters for composers, where they take a deeper look into their projects and solutions


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## ed buller (May 17, 2018)

I guess I’m mindful of the fact Hans may not have wanted to show you how to write music like him . Not due to a wish to guard his secrets but rather from a position of helping you to find your own voice and solutions as he has . The analogies with cooking shows I feel are misplaced as we don’t want to recreate Hans's soufflés . We just need to gain understanding and confidence to try our own recipes . In that I really think he’s done a superb job .

E


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## benatural (May 17, 2018)

I found it to be very insightful. I came away from it with more confidence to follow my instincts, to trust my collaborators and the collaborative and artistic process, and for me that was just as valuable as a technical masterclass. Some of the best lessons take this form. It helped me to look at music making, especially collaborative music making , through new lenses. It was also gratifying and reassuring to hear some of my own thoughts and fears echoed by HZ. Honestly I felt it helped me unload, or at least better understand, my creative baggage, and in turn I feel like a better composer and a better communicator. Not trying to overblow things, this is just what I got out of it. 

All of which to say - Get it, set your expectations aside, and go along for the ride


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## Phillip (May 17, 2018)

I think Zimmer did not want to share his writing process because it may be very personal and even painful thing for him at times. Instead he chose more general topics which are more comfortable for him to share. Of course "Masterclass" from a "Composer" means lessons in composition and not in "talking to directors". I doubt Zimmer himself ever attended any masterclasses and it is possible he simply did not know what word "Masterclass" would mean for the his potential customers. Live and learn.


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## NoamL (May 17, 2018)

EpicDude said:


> Hans doesn't teach you anything about music.



Hehe! scoring a movie is maybe 25% about writing music. Tops. It's about 50% figuring out the film, 25% writing music, and 25% _desperately_ grinding away at logistical tasks as deadlines catch up (or using a large team to help you).

An LA mentor taught me this three part mantra for scoring:* Help the director make his story mean something to the audience.*

*Help the director:* music serves the film. The composer is not there to show off musical talent. The director's vision is the movie.

*Make the story mean something: *Music doesn't tell the story, it makes the story _feel_ like more than what you just see. Music is subtext made concrete. Music that's not drawing on subtext is just duplicating the action. Music can't be enlisted in the task of "fixing the movie" (e.g. making jokes work).
*
To the audience: *You have to know the correlations between what musical devices _create_ what associations or emotions for the audience. This, if anything, is the only part where "being good at writing music" comes into play. You don't modulate for the sake of modulating but because you know how a modulation will affect the mood, the nuance of what's playing on screen.

There's a lot of "meh" music that's great scoring.


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## NoamL (May 17, 2018)

So, to bring that back to HZ's scores, a lot of the smartness (I hesitate to say genius, LOL) is big picture. The 50% that's "figuring out the film."

Sherlock Holmes has been adapted how many times now? And each time there's some genteel Edwardian violin theme because, of course, Holmes is an intellectual and plays the violin! (Patrick Gowers's theme is terrific btw)

But along comes Guy Ritchie and clearly the character is totally different for him. He's putting all these pieces together... like: oh shit. Sherlock Holmes is about _class_. The conflict between an incredibly class-driven society, England in the 1890s, and Sherlock Holmes who just doesn't want to fit in. He's an upper class dude, Oxford accent and monographs, and he _should _be conforming to Edwardian norms but instead he's living the Bohemian life. Cocaine. Up at all hours, has some kind of mania. Confirmed bachelor. Dresses up as a variety of lower-caste stock characters, at least 50% for the fun of shocking Watson every time he comes home dressed as a longshoreman or cook. His resentment of Lestrade, fascination with Adler, and feud with Moriarty are all _fundamentally_ about class. Lestrade is the class-conscious bootlicker who gets to take the credit for Holmes' work because he's the "proper authority"; Adler has unexpected street smarts that contradict her "ladylike" exterior; and Moriarty is the "Napoleon of Crime" who maintains a posh facade while secretly controlling all kinds of street vice; in other words he's like the opposite of Holmes in class terms. And hence the scruffy, tic-driven, street smart, combat capable Sherlock Holmes of Guy Ritchie & RDJr's adaptation. So for this adaptation it's like: of course. Not Schubert sonatas, it's a _ Roma_ violin. Bring out the hurdy gurdy, the cimbalom, the Experibass. And it's not a pastiche or comedy or recitation of musical stereotypes; in a way the energy & verve of it makes this Holmes a lot more _authentic_ than he otherwise would be.

If that thinking... or something vaguely along these lines... had not preceded the "actually writing the music" part, the score just would not have worked. At least, this is my spitballed guess at how the score's main ideas came about. I have not bought the master class so... I may have just made a total fool of myself!!  Would be very interested to know if HZ talks about films in this figuring-out-the-characters way at all in his class. That would be so much more useful than talking about notes and chords.


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## Garry (May 18, 2018)

NoamL said:


> An LA mentor taught me this three part mantra for scoring:* Help the director make his story mean something to the audience.*
> 
> *Help the director:* music serves the film. The composer is not there to show off musical talent. The director's vision is the movie.
> 
> ...


I absolutely love your description here, because it precisely captures the value of what I got from Hans’ masterclass (which may be very different to what others got). As a scientist, not a musician, I was often relating Hans’ advice to my own situation, and using the orchestra as a metaphor to a scientific team (could be any team-based interaction). I can draw direct parallels (I won’t here, it’ll bore you silly) to objectives we have in working in medicine, the team-interaction required and the patient as the ‘audience’, and I find the metaphor really revealing and illuminating.

Thanks for spelling it out like this: you condensed Hans’ message across 31 videos into what I’ll now use as a single PowerPoint slide to get the point across to non-musicians, for whom the film score is ‘just background’ (or at least, they think it is!).


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## reddognoyz (May 18, 2018)

EpicDude said:


> I love HZ but his masterclass was disappointing and misleading. It's like buying Gordon Ramsay masterclass and all he tells you is how to dress for a dinner date.


Well you know what they say, "those that can do, do those that can't teach, those that can't do or teach become producers : )


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## PaulieDC (May 18, 2018)

NoamL said:


> An LA mentor taught me this three part mantra for scoring:* Help the director make his story mean something to the audience.*



You just described the HZ class in a nutshell. He goes into that in depth then repeats it over and over again: You have to have a tune, you have to help tell the story and it's you and the director at the end of the day.


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## dpasdernick (May 18, 2018)

I'm just getting to the end of it right now and absolutely love it. The man is a genius in my opinion. Who'd of thought that the guy that got less than 10 seconds of screen time in Video Killed the Radio Star would become the biggest rock star in film music. Listening to him talk reminds me of me except he's successful, has talent, know words with more than 2 syllables and is entertaining as hell. The only thing that bugged me was the squeaky chair. 

_Hans... boobie... (get it? from Die Hard?) You're rich. Get a chair that doesn't squeak... _

So in summation... 

I learned more about life than I did about what comes after an Am chord... and I love him for that. Thank You Master Zimmer for the best masterclass ever.


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## PaulieDC (May 18, 2018)

EpicDude said:


> It would be even more interesting if he talks about both.


Not only does he NOT talk about notes and chords technically, he tells you NEVER to do that with your director. Ever. Again, the most seasoned and successful may not get much, but for the rest of us, absolutely worth it. IMO anyway.


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## wst3 (May 19, 2018)

I wasn't sure what to expect. I have attended master classes, so I guess my expectation was that it would be very high level, but the topic or topics remained a mystery.

I was not disappointed in the least. I thought he had a master-level understanding of the topics he chose. I think the topics he chose are very applicable to anyone writing music for media of any kind. I think his focus on collaboration and support were well placed.

Would I have enjoyed a master class where he walked through how he created a specific soundtrack? Sure! Would I have learned something from a masterclass where he dissected a project, why he chose a specific melody, harmony, or orchestration? You bet. There is value to that information, but there is also tremendous value to the approach he used.

At least there is for me.


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