# MBP 16” M1 Max: Samples on internal SSD ? Or external SSDs?



## Leandro Marcos (Dec 20, 2021)

Hello everyone!

I am looking at getting one of the new M1 Max MacBook Pro’s for my travel rig to replace my 10-year old MacBook.

Now, I’m debating myself whether to max out the internal SSD storage and stream libraries from there since it would be more convenient when travelling not to have to carry and plug external drives every time.

Currently I have a total roughly under 3TB in libraries, so I think that going for the 4TB would be a bit tight (also considering that we should leave between 20% and 30% free space not to compromise performance). Of course, one option would be to just copy my most used libraries and keep my least used ones in an external SSD should I happen to need it. But, I think 8TB would be the way to go in my particular case, also considering (as you can clearly see) that I don’t upgrade my MacBooks that often. Yet, the price tag for getting the 8TB version is pretty high.

So, my questions are the following:

1) Would I see any performance issues streaming libraries from the internal SSD rather than external? Is the “do not put your libraries in the same drive as the OS” still a thing?

2) If I decided to go with external SSDs:

a) what minimum connection type (USB 3.1 / 3.2 / TB3) guarantees a good streaming performance? In other words, which SSD types will provide the QD1 4K speed needed for good streaming? I know a TB3 definitely will, but I don’t want to spend money on a TB3 drive if a 3.1 also will and will be half the price.

b) Which array will provide the best performance:
- one external 4TB SSD on a single Thunderbolt port
- two external 2TB SSDs connected to the same Thunderbolt port (of course this option would be valid if the drives are not Thunderbolt, so they can share the bandwidth of the port).
- two external 2TB SSDs connected to 2 separate Thunderbolt ports

3) Does any of the arrays in question 2.b) provide a larger voice-count than the other? I’ve read some comments about this by @storyteller 

4) Any SSD model that you have tested on the new M1 Max and that works without issues?

Thanks in advance! Happy Holidays everyone!


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## khollister (Dec 20, 2021)

Leandro Marcos said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I am looking at getting one of the new M1 Max MacBook Pro’s for my travel rig to replace my 10-year old MacBook.
> 
> ...


1) Not an issue. In fact the internal SSD is quite a bit faster than any external TB or USB SSD. I have a M1 Max with the 8TB internal and have most of my samples located there. Even with 200-300 tracks (Kontakt, VSL or OPUS), the Logic disk activity meter barely registers if at all.

2) Be aware that the M1 series Macs have compromised USB 3 performance. A USB 3.1 gen 2 NVME SSD will have sustained speeds of about 700 MBs instead of 900-1000 MBs. Thunderbolt runs at full speed. I would personally go for a single TB SSD of whatever capacity you need. However, be aware that the cost savings may not be as great over the internal version as you might think.

An external USB SSD may also be fast enough in spite of the compromised performance - I have-not tested that.

I have 2 of these that work perfectly on both of my Macs - https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB3ENVPSX02/


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## colony nofi (Dec 21, 2021)

I've personally gone the route of "lets try build a self contained DAW in this crazy little box" and sprung for the 8TB internal drive. I have an 8TB TB3 NVMe drive now that's used for off-site work, and one less thing to plug in will be amazing. Need to manage data well (and figure out how to keep samples down to 6TB and projects < 1TB, but I think I can find a way.

Waiting on that machine though.

If you go external, just grab one big one. Its much easier to manage. Less things to plug in. Less individual drives to backup. A mate just messaged me about connecting a 15.6TB U.2 drive via USB3.2 - and LOVES everything just being on one drive. (He slides the same U.2 drive into a caddy when using it in the studio. Its not the fastest drive out there (limited by USB) but it rocks for what are monstrous sessions.


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## merz (Dec 21, 2021)

If you were to spec out a fully loaded MBP, I think it's imperative to also price in AppleCare coverage for the laptop's lifespan. 

If your 8TB internal SSD fails, then the whole device is inoperable.


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## colony nofi (Dec 21, 2021)

merz said:


> If you were to spec out a fully loaded MBP, I think it's imperative to also price in AppleCare coverage for the laptop's lifespan.
> 
> If your 8TB internal SSD fails, then the whole device is inoperable.


In oz, we get coverage for 3+ years on all macs due to consumer laws (even though apple don't loudly talk about it they all have ACCC leaflets on hand at the stores!)
Between that and a good relationship with apple, applecare doesn't make any sense to us unless the machine is being used on international projects (and even then, we have other insurances in place.) 

But I totally get why it would be a thing for someone working independently. 

You also need a good plan "B" for if something fails in the field. So backup external drives that are fast enough to use through thunderbolt/USB are key (as the chances of getting a like-for-like replacement of the mac is very LOW when one needs to be back up and running in <24hours!)

When I get the new MBP, I'll also be testing a lower end model - essentially the top model you can get that stores tend to keep in stock (which apple have always had, but its never the very top!) and make sure we can get it all up and running with the backup plan in quick time. Also will give us a chance to test what one has to go thru to launch a session which is using most of the 64GB ram in a 32GB environment (which is the spec they'll be keeping from what I've heard)


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## Leandro Marcos (Jan 5, 2022)

colony nofi said:


> I've personally gone the route of "lets try build a self contained DAW in this crazy little box" and sprung for the 8TB internal drive. I have an 8TB TB3 NVMe drive now that's used for off-site work, and one less thing to plug in will be amazing. Need to manage data well (and figure out how to keep samples down to 6TB and projects < 1TB, but I think I can find a way.
> 
> Waiting on that machine though.
> 
> If you go external, just grab one big one. Its much easier to manage. Less things to plug in. Less individual drives to backup. A mate just messaged me about connecting a 15.6TB U.2 drive via USB3.2 - and LOVES everything just being on one drive. (He slides the same U.2 drive into a caddy when using it in the studio. Its not the fastest drive out there (limited by USB) but it rocks for what are monstrous sessions.


Hi! Just checking if you already got your new MBP and tested streaming from the internal SSD. Thanks!


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## colony nofi (Jan 5, 2022)

Leandro Marcos said:


> Hi! Just checking if you already got your new MBP and tested streaming from the internal SSD. Thanks!


Its saying it arrives sometime between Jan26 - Feb2


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## Richard Bowling (May 20, 2022)

Has anybody with a MacBook Pro M1 Max with 8TB internal drive used the MBPro for orchestral work with larger templates? Any experiences to share? Any cautions? Wisdom to share?


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## Cdnalsi (May 20, 2022)

The 'do not put your libraries on the internal HDD' isn't a thing anymore since SSDs. In fact the Apple SSDs are going to be significantly faster than any external you can get. Also the SSD wear issues have been greatly exaggerated since they will probably outlive the computer as far as 'total write per day' goes- this video explains it pretty thoroughly.

So I say splurge for the highest capacity you can afford and just don't worry about externals anymore. That's what I did (though my needs are pretty small and can all fit inside a 1TB SSD).


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## Richard Bowling (May 20, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> The 'do not put your libraries on the internal HDD' isn't a thing anymore since SSDs. In fact the Apple SSDs are going to be significantly faster than any external you can get. Also the SSD wear issues have been greatly exaggerated since they will probably outlive the computer as far as 'total write per day' goes- this video explains it pretty thoroughly.
> 
> So I say splurge for the highest capacity you can afford and just don't worry about externals anymore. That's what I did (though my needs are pretty small and can all fit inside a 1TB SSD).


Thanks- I am hearing this line of thinking more and more…. I am really wondering how the workflows are for various users. Sounds like you are having great success. Congrats.


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## HCMarkus (May 20, 2022)

For portability, the all-internal SSD approach is definitely a winner, but it comes at a cost premium compared to external TB or USB approaches. 

For my studio machine, I opted for 2TB internal and 2TB external Thunderbolt. That 2TB external cost me $280 for Samsung 970 EVO Plus in an OWC Envoy Express case. Add $9.00 for the stick-on Amazon heatsinks I installed on the Envoy for the heck of it and we are still $300+ less expensive than the extra 2TB internal would have cost. 

Sure, the external isn't as fast as internal, but I certainly don't find myself waiting for it.

If money is no object, then all internal is perfect. But, whatever you do, back up!


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## danielh02 (May 21, 2022)

I have a 4TB MacBook Pro M1 and have everything on the internal SSD. I don't do a ton of orchestration, mostly a lot of Kontakt libraries. But I still have a couple of TB free. I gotta say it's really nice not having anything plugged in, especially with the great battery life it's truly untethered.

One thing I did was to create another APFS volume for all of the static VST/Kontakt libraries. This is not a set-size partition, but more like a virtual partition that shares the same space. The advantage is that I can just backup the regular partition faster, since the VST partition rarely changes.


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## kennmichael (May 21, 2022)

On an 8TB M1 Max doing scores/production with Kontakt, Spitfire, OPUS in Logic, Ableton and Bitwig. Incredibly fast. Very convenient to not have external drives plugged in to work. Great performance. Like danielh02, I have a separate virtual partition for my sound libraries/samples (including Omnisphere, etc...). Feels like the future for sure.


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## HenryBerg (May 22, 2022)

I just bought the entry level 14" MBP (16GB/512SSD) as a stop gap for the summer, as a custom 16" MBP is AT LEAST 3 months back-ordered.

I've got around 250GB of samples from Spitfire (BBCCore) and VSL. Should I put them ALL into the internal SSD (using half the 512GB), or to my new Sandisk 1TB Extreme Pro? I'm on Logic Pro+UAD Apollo 8xp.
The internal 14" SSD flies at 4-5GB/s while the USB-C Sandisk is capped at 700-900MB/s due to the M1Pro *bad* usb-c implementation.

Looks like the smart thing is to use the internal SSD for samples, being it 6 times faster, and leave the ext Sandisk just for video editing? I bought the Sandisk to install samples to my 2016 15" MBP, which i'll skip it going for the just bought 14" (which i'll sell after summer, when i can order a 32/2TB 16")


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## gzapper (May 22, 2022)

I opted for 64 gig Ram but only 2 Tb of drive space. Now I'm kicking myself, really wish I had opted for the 8tb. It costs about the same but if you move around a bit its just more convenient and leaves more ports free. Having 2 Tb external ssd's is a bit of a drag, ended up costing about the same and its not as fast or convenient. 

Max it all if you can afford it.


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## Richard Bowling (May 22, 2022)

HenryBerg said:


> I just bought the entry level 14" MBP (16GB/512SSD) as a stop gap for the summer, as a custom 16" MBP is AT LEAST 3 months back-ordered.
> 
> I've got around 250GB of samples from Spitfire (BBCCore) and VSL. Should I put them ALL into the internal SSD (using half the 512GB), or to my new Sandisk 1TB Extreme Pro? I'm on Logic Pro+UAD Apollo 8xp.
> The internal 14" SSD flies at 4-5GB/s while the USB-C Sandisk is capped at 700-900MB/s due to the M1Pro *bad* usb-c implementation.
> ...


Whatever you choose to do, please let us know about your experience…


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## HCMarkus (May 23, 2022)

Richard Bowling said:


> Whatever you choose to do, please let us know about your experience…


I'm using external TB Envoy Express with NVMe SSD for VI Samples. Don't find myself waiting around, but am curious if there would be a difference vs Internal SSD. Sample loading time may be less restricted by interface speed than video. 

Member Virtuoso has done a great job demonstrating the difference... Start on this post:https://vi-control.net/community/th...ware-mac-computer.122288/page-68#post-5080318






Mac Studio (New Hardware Mac Computer)!!!!


And Charlie has a point here we shouldn’t base assumptions on kontakt alone. Engines like SINE, Omnisphere/ Keyscape and others clearly benefit the faster loading speeds. I’m glad I’ve got the highest capacity on the m1max. So true. And I also have some interesting results with (synthetic)...



vi-control.net





VI Sample loading = Many very small reads. Video = fewer large reads. Interesting stuff.


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## Cdnalsi (May 23, 2022)

HenryBerg said:


> I just bought the entry level 14" MBP (16GB/512SSD) as a stop gap for the summer, as a custom 16" MBP is AT LEAST 3 months back-ordered.
> 
> I've got around 250GB of samples from Spitfire (BBCCore) and VSL.* Should I put them ALL into the internal SSD (using half the 512GB)*, or to my new Sandisk 1TB Extreme Pro? I'm on Logic Pro+UAD Apollo 8xp.
> The internal 14" SSD flies at 4-5GB/s while the USB-C Sandisk is capped at 700-900MB/s due to the M1Pro *bad* usb-c implementation.
> ...


I'd say keep them on the internal SSD, and use the external as backups.


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## colony nofi (May 24, 2022)

FWIW, my new machine for going to projects is the 16" MBP / 64GB / 8TB internal drive. I made a library drive that's 6TB for select libraries, allow about 1TB for projects in progress (can access all projects through our server / our own cloud) and 1TB for system / software. 

Why did I go that way? Not for speed of SSD - I really don't see much real world difference compared to using an external NVME / TB4 drive on our new Mac studio ultra. Where its great is just not needing to plugin ANOTHER thing. 

A major pain point with all working outside the studio is just the amount of STUFF one needs to carry around. Its already 2 laptops (1 for backup) - used to be Mac Pro trashcan as the primary machine. Then there's sample lib drives, project drives etc (one of the big reasons we built out a private cloud using our server / other online storage), plus speakers, audio card, small keyboard, trackball, sometimes a larger 4k monitor (depending on how long one is on the project), controllers, Dante connections (becoming more and more important), ilok, backup drives, headphones, etc etc.

Back even 5 years ago it was about a 28kg case. Next week I'm heading to an interstate project and trying to do it in 15kg in a back-pack. Will see how that goes. 

I still use an RME babyface for audio (and a digiface Dante on this next project) but when I get some time I want to try use the internal sound card and see if I can still run projects with a reasonable buffer number (512) using just the internal card / phones socket. That'd be magic.

Anyway - just my 2c.

B.


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## HCMarkus (May 24, 2022)

Yeah, sometimes it seems like the mass of cables and power adaptors sprouting from my new Mac Studio almost bury it. 

A different world from the Cheesegrater, for sure!


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## Sergievsky (May 25, 2022)

I get some weird, random disconnects on various TB external NVMEs (and 2.5 ssds), on various external casings (owc, glotrend, fledging, akitio), all on good quality cables. Not often, but often enough to really piss me off & get me worried. So when I jump into the next macbook (M2 maybe?) I would absolutely stuff it with the 8tb/128gb-Ram (assuming they'll up it to 128). Like what was previously said, the portability will be great, but man, whenever these "drive disconnected" message pops up, I keep stressing if a file got corrupted.


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## Michael Antrum (May 25, 2022)

HCMarkus said:


> Yeah, sometimes it seems like the mass of cables and power adaptors sprouting from my new Mac Studio almost bury it.
> 
> A different world from the Cheesegrater, for sure!


I'm waiting for the delivery of my new Mac Studio, replacing my 2009 tricked out Mac Pro Cheesegrater.

When I think all the wires and external boxes, I wonder how much of it really is progress.

If the new Mac Pro (of which we will hopefully get details this WWDC) has room inside and doesn't cost more than Putin's yacht, I might return it.....


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