# Streaming Audio



## Hans Adamson (Mar 4, 2008)

I am planning to add streaming audio to a website. I would like to provide streaming without the possibility of downloading and saving the audio file. I have looked at Flash Audio for instance. Is Flash audio always inferior to a high quality streaming mp3?

Also, is there other options for this, such as streaming mp3's that cannot be downloaded and saved as a file. Any tips on programs or techniques?

Thanks.
Hans


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## PolarBear (Mar 4, 2008)

I personally hate when a website is only offering streaming as alternative and not letting me download the original mp3. You could embed the mp3 in an m3u where the mp3 is located on a server directory only the streaming app is allowed to access, that way you should prevent people downloading the file directly...

I'm sure there are also other types of broadcast only solutions, but I'm not into them so much... if it's not Flash or server-sided it would need another program at the user-side, not desirable if you have a large user-base without the specific tools installed.

Just my 2 cents,
PolarBear


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## synthetic (Mar 4, 2008)

I've been looking into this as well. Here's a flash audio tutorial:

http://www.adobe.com/support/flash/sound/sound_player/


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## synthetic (Mar 4, 2008)

MP3 files are used by Flash for audio playback, so there is no sounding better or worse, they are the same.


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks Polar, Jeff,

I found this and think I'll try it:
http://ipcaudiowizard.com/#Still

Also, I will only use streaming flash when copyright issues require me to. 8)


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## Brian Ralston (Mar 4, 2008)

Hans...you might want to look at the Wimpy player. It is a flash encoded MP3 player for websites. The license to use it on ones websiste is relatively cheap. There is also a video player and a wimpy "button" which would allow you to just use a play/pause button encorporated within your own web designe if you choose. 

It is easy to set up. Streams the music in flash. Displays the ID3 tags embedded in the MP3 files...and allows you to check off preferences when you set up the html code that will prohibit caching of the streaming MP3 files in the browser cache. 

There is also a shopping cart feature if you choose to use it...album artwork...skins to change the look, etc..

http://www.wimpyplayer.com

Highly recommended. All the coding is already done for you.

I have it running on my website if you want to take a look (http://www.brianralston.com/Music.html). 

But remember, there is a lot of flexibility in how you use the code and how you make it look on your page...so your version could look totally different and function relatively the same, etc...


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks Brian,

That looks interesting. I certainly do not want to be in a situation where mp3's have been downloaded (cached). But if you select no caching, will a user with lower modem speeds be able to listen?


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## Waywyn (Mar 4, 2008)

Another vote for Wimpy Player. Actually I use Wimpy and also the "sequel" which is Rave, on my website. Really like it.


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 4, 2008)

Alex,

How do you make the mp3 folder accessible only to the software and not to someone hacking the site?


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## Waywyn (Mar 4, 2008)

Hans Adamson @ Wed Mar 05 said:


> Alex,
> 
> How do you make the mp3 folder accessible only to the software and not to someone hacking the site?



I don't really know much about hacking a server actually, but as long as the hacker doesn't know the link of the file .... ? 

And Wimpy doesn't show the link of an mp3. It just shows the playlist and stuff.
... or is there any chance to test this. I would be also interested.

Another thing I know, (but not in Wimpy only in Rave) that you have an option to generate a hash key instead of the mp3 link to the server. This encrypted key is used the in the xml file feed the mp3 player .. but honestly I didn't do that.


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## Thonex (Mar 4, 2008)

I DLed the demo Wimpy and installed the php version in a folder called mp3s (just like the instructions say) and when I follow the link.... I get a bunch of text. I tried the .asp version and the cold fusion version... all exhibit the same thing. I'm with Earthlink and in reading the Earthlink info.. it says that the latest php is installed. 

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? It seems like a really simple install... just drag all the wimpy files into the "mp3s" folder on my site... but no luck.

Thanks for any tips.

Cheers,

T


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## Brian Ralston (Mar 4, 2008)

Hans Adamson @ Tue Mar 04 said:


> But if you select no caching, will a user with lower modem speeds be able to listen?



Yes. There is a cache of sorts. But it disappears when you go to another song...close the page or the player...stop the song, etc...The wimpy code for this seems to work pretty well. I have tried to find it in the cache file a lot and I still can not find it. 

I suppose anyone can still use something like Audio Hijack to record the stream of music that is playing through the computer's sound card...but where there is a will, there is a way for anyone I guess.

The trade off of wimpy's no cache feature is it will increase your site's bandwidth stats. If someone wants to listen to a song 5 times in a row...wimpy will re-download the MP3 5 times instead of just once and playing the rest from the browser's cache file. That data transfer can add up. But that is an acceptible trade off to me



Hans Adamson @ Tue Mar 04 said:


> Alex,
> 
> How do you make the mp3 folder accessible only to the software and not to someone hacking the site?



My web logs saw you manually trying to determine where my MP3s were stored on my site Hans.  

:D

That is a function of your web server and not any Wimpy code Hans. If you have server admin privileges on your server, what you want to do is to forbid html access to certain folders (without administration login) and also forbid indexing of those folders. Essentially, wimpy can request the files to stream because they are coming from an internal webpage reference link...but anyone outside trying to link in or manually typing in specific addresses will get a forbidden error and/or 404 code.


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 4, 2008)

Brian Ralston @ Tue Mar 04 said:


> Hans Adamson @ Tue Mar 04 said:
> 
> 
> > But if you select no caching, will a user with lower modem speeds be able to listen?
> ...


Thanks Brian,

Yes, I looked at the default install folders ("Wimpy" or "mp3s") to see if they were revealed. They weren't which answered my security question to some degree. I don't know if it was because of Wimpy or if it was because of your website settings, but I have figured out that the demo will work with mp3's from inside a "private" folder on the web, so it will be OK. 

The only question mark now is how to configure Wimpy in a way that I wouldn't have to collect all dems by different composers under the same button/player.

/Hans


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## Brian Ralston (Mar 4, 2008)

> Thanks Brian,
> 
> Yes, I looked at the default install folders to see if they were revealed. They weren't which answered my security question to some degree. I don't know if it was because of Wimpy or if it was because of your website settings, but I have figured out that the demo will work with mp3's from inside a "private" folder on the web, so it will be OK.



It was due to my website's admin settings and access files which govern each folder within the site and what can be done with it. 

If you have a web server running cPanel for web administration, it makes it all very easy to set up and maintain. 





> The only question mark now is how to configure Wimpy in a way that I wouldn't have to collect all dems by different composers under the same button/player.



There are sub folders for the MP3s. Each folder is a different "album", and each MP3 within that folder is listed in file name order. If you want a specific order not related to name, give the MP3 file name a number at the front.

So...if you want a list of names to appear. Create a list of folders in the main Wimpy folder, each with the name of a composer. When you click on each name in the player, it goes into that folder and see the MP3s there. Then you can store/upload collections of MP3s by each composer into their respective folder. 

All of this is set up in the customization page for the wimpy player, which is a web tool on their site that generate html code to govern how your wimply player functions. You put that code into your site code...put all the .php wimpy files in their proper place on the server...and you are good to go.


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 4, 2008)

My problem is that I have been setting up my web with Frontpage 2000 and it is not compatible with the web host's control for setting up access. Frontpage only allows one security folder. I tested though, and the Wimpy will work from within this folder.

Still have some testing to do with those Wimpy "Buttons"...

Thanks for all tips. I don't think the Wimpy webpage is very easy to understand. But luckily you can download the demos and test for yourself what works.

Thanks again.
/Hans


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## JonFairhurst (Mar 4, 2008)

BTW, Flash 9 now also supports AAC (the same encoding used for DVDs)

Regarding Flash, you can "stream" with progressive downloads, which is easy and works on PCs with slow connections, but doesn't protect your content. You need a Flash server to truly stream Flash. It protects your content, but is very expensive (find somebody who already has a Flash server to stream for you), and it doesn't work well if the PC has a very slow connection.


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## Thonex (Mar 5, 2008)

Ok... I'm getting frustrated.... I've tried a bunch of different things.... and all I get when I try to demo Wimpy is this code (where I'm guessing the demo should run):


```
<?php
if([email protected]_id()){
@session_start();
}
//<//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//                                                             //
//                                                             //
//                                                             //
//                                                             //
//                      Wimpy MP3 Player                       //
//                                                             //
//           by Mike Gieson <[email protected]>             //
//          available at http://www.wimpyplayer.com            //
//                     ©2002-2006 plaino                       //
//                                                             //
//                                                             //
//                                                             //
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//                                                             //
//                       INSTALLATION:                         //
//                                                             //
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//
// Upload wimpy.php and wimpy.swf to the folder that
// contains your mp3's.
//
// USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
//
$wimpyVersion = "v5.4.9";
$wimpyConfigFile = "wimpyConfigs.xml";
$myWimpySWFfilename = "wimpy.swf";
$wimpy_auth = "wimpy_auth.php";
$media_types = "xml,mp3,m3u,pls";
 

<snip> ...... blah blah.....
//
```

it's showing the php code instead of executing it... no?

Thanks for any help.

Cheers,

T


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## Waywyn (Mar 5, 2008)

Thonex @ Wed Mar 05 said:


> I DLed the demo Wimpy and installed the php version in a folder called mp3s (just like the instructions say) and when I follow the link.... I get a bunch of text. I tried the .asp version and the cold fusion version... all exhibit the same thing. I'm with Earthlink and in reading the Earthlink info.. it says that the latest php is installed.
> 
> Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? It seems like a really simple install... just drag all the wimpy files into the "mp3s" folder on my site... but no luck.
> 
> ...



I don't know if I tell you stuff you already know, but I did the installation as described. Then you were instructed to visit a link, where you have to put in the links of the mp3 and some other function of the player. After that you get a html file, which is also a flash part you could take out of the html code. This code you have to paste on a hmtl site or into your website and you are ready to go.


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## Thonex (Mar 5, 2008)

Waywyn @ Wed Mar 05 said:


> I don't know if I tell you stuff you already know, but I did the installation as described. Then you were instructed to visit a link, where you have to put in the links of the mp3 and some other function of the player. After that you get a html file, which is also a flash part you could take out of the html code. This code you have to paste on a hmtl site or into your website and you are ready to go.



Thanks Waywyn.

I read the instruction very carefully and I didn't see any mention of having to go to links and getting html files.... maybe I'm blind :lol: 

Could you give me a link with these instructions?

Theses are the instructions I followed: 

http://www.wimpyplayer.com/support/quick_start_mp3.html

Thanks for any help.

Cheers,

T


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## Waywyn (Mar 5, 2008)

Thonex @ Wed Mar 05 said:


> Waywyn @ Wed Mar 05 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if I tell you stuff you already know, but I did the installation as described. Then you were instructed to visit a link, where you have to put in the links of the mp3 and some other function of the player. After that you get a html file, which is also a flash part you could take out of the html code. This code you have to paste on a hmtl site or into your website and you are ready to go.
> ...



You can find something about customizing in the "wimpy SQL folder" -> readme_wimpy_mp3.html

But here is the direct link to the customizer:
http://www.wimpyplayer.com/customize/customize_mp3.html


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 5, 2008)

Thonex,

When I installed, there were instructions that if I would see what you are seeing, the correct extensions were not installed on the server. In my case php. The recommendation was then to try one of the other formats.


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## Brian Ralston (Mar 5, 2008)

There really isn't an "install" procedure on the server side other than on your web server in the public_html folder you create a folder called "music"...or "wimpy"...or "demos"...or whatever you want. You can do this with any FTP program. And you upload all the php files and everything related to wimpy in that one folder. Including the MP3s. If the MP3s only have subfolders for organization...then they will show up as such in the wimpy player. 

Then when you generate html code on the wimplyplayer.com site to include in your website page...you just make sure all the links it asks you for are pointing to the correct folder location on your server. 

- If the server where your webpage is hosted is a unix server, you use the php files. 
- If your server is running microsoft windows .NET server...you use the asp files. 
- If the server is running Coldfusion (Adobe's server side scripting environment - VERY RARE)...then you use the cold fusion files.


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## Thonex (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks Brian,



Brian Ralston @ Wed Mar 05 said:


> There really isn't an "install" procedure on the server side other than on your web server in the public_html folder you create a folder called "music"...or "wimpy"...or "demos"...or whatever you want. You can do this with any FTP program. And you upload all the php files and everything related to wimpy in that one folder. Including the MP3s. If the MP3s only have subfolders for organization...then they will show up as such in the wimpy player.



Exactly what I did



Brian Ralston @ Wed Mar 05 said:


> Then when you generate html code on the wimplyplayer.com site to include in your website page...you just make sure all the links it asks you for are pointing to the correct folder location on your server.



This is where I'm getting lost. _*"Then when you generate html code"*_ I'm guessing I don't need to do this if I'm just testing out the player as a demo.

Their site makes it sound like a no-brainer. I tried php, asp, CF.... no dice. I'm guessing Earthlink is not enabled for that by default... although they say they support php 4 anf php 5.

I dunno.... I'll try uploading it to my site from my PC and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks for all the help guys.

T


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## Waywyn (Mar 5, 2008)

I might be wrong but as far as I know you have to use that generator BUT there is something limited in the player ... not sure anymore.

Anyway, try the link I posted in my previous post and upload the html file on your server.


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## Thonex (Mar 5, 2008)

Waywyn @ Wed Mar 05 said:


> I might be wrong but as far as I know you have to use that generator BUT there is something limited in the player ... not sure anymore.
> 
> Anyway, try the link I posted in my previous post and upload the html file on your server.



Thanks Waywyn,

I'll give it a try.

Cheers,

T


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## mixolydian (Mar 5, 2008)

Waywyn @ Tue Mar 04 said:


> I don't really know much about hacking a server actually, but as long as the hacker doesn't know the link of the file .... ?
> 
> And Wimpy doesn't show the link of an mp3. It just shows the playlist and stuff.
> ... or is there any chance to test this. I would be also interested.
> ...


Without hash keys the url to the MP3 is in those xml, all the links are in seconds on a screen. I'm sorry if that was clearer as wodka.


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## Waywyn (Mar 6, 2008)

mixolydian @ Thu Mar 06 said:


> Waywyn @ Tue Mar 04 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't really know much about hacking a server actually, but as long as the hacker doesn't know the link of the file .... ?
> ...



Sorry to ask, but how you can test this?


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 6, 2008)

*Censured* >8o


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## mixolydian (Mar 6, 2008)

Waywyn @ Thu Mar 06 said:


> Sorry to ask, but how you can test this?


- Open up the page with your player.
- Right click in those white area around the player. Choose "Source code" to show the HMTL content. (Well, if you're on Mac, Firefox and without right mouse key choose "show source code" in browser's menu may help.)
- In the source code scroll down a bit, you'll find the link to your playlist xml file. Copy the link and open it in a new window.
- In those playlist code you'll find the link to the sub folders like "fast action". Copy one of those links to a subfolder and open it - there are the MP3 links. I had no problems to load the MP3 with Browser or download manager.

It's some time as I was in website programming but I guess there are some minor workarounds to make your contents a bit "safer". But whenever a single note goes to the soundcard it is recordable as you know - those tricks prevent you just for the non-musician leecher.

Just a hint btw: If you're on a Linux based internet server I would prevent any spaces in file names or folder names, cos it _can_ cause problems - try to use underline to separate words. Linux based server even know context sensitivities, to prevent any probs write it all with small characters.

...Apologize if I'm wasting anyone's time.

BTW: Is it you singing "Unreal"? Great.


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## Waywyn (Mar 6, 2008)

mixolydian @ Thu Mar 06 said:


> Waywyn @ Thu Mar 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to ask, but how you can test this?
> ...



Cool, thanks a lot!! That helped me much, I will probably go over and use the hash codes and replace everything. Didn't know it's that easy )

Yes, it's my voice on "Unreal". Thx!!


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## mixolydian (Mar 6, 2008)

Waywyn @ Thu Mar 06 said:


> [...] I will probably go over and use the hash codes and replace everything. Didn't know it's that easy )


Make it safe and I'll have a look what I can do as a website hacker. :mrgreen: But I guess hash is pretty safe - even for a normal surfer without any hacker purposes.


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## Waywyn (Mar 6, 2008)

mixolydian @ Thu Mar 06 said:


> Waywyn @ Thu Mar 06 said:
> 
> 
> > [...] I will probably go over and use the hash codes and replace everything. Didn't know it's that easy )
> ...



Okay, can you check back my playlist? I just did the easy way, but encrypting the general playlist. So it shouldn't be possible to follow the other playlists and therefore the mp3s?


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## mixolydian (Mar 6, 2008)

I guess this is safe as it could be. Next big step is to put them into a swiss locker. 

BTW: I like that Wimpy stuff too, for me the Wimpy Button will do it.


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## Waywyn (Mar 6, 2008)

mixolydian @ Thu Mar 06 said:


> I guess this is safe as it could be. Next big step is to put them into a swiss locker.
> 
> BTW: I like that Wimpy stuff too, for me the Wimpy Button will do it.



Cool, thanks a lot for checking it out.

Yeh, I have to admit, the button would do it for me too, but I liked the fancy options of Rave ... so ... it's hard to resist for me when it comes to cool little software plugs


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## mixolydian (Mar 6, 2008)

For sure, Rave give the extra bit of a wonderful showcase (I guess music even works better if there's a visual relation too), but my music doesn't deserves it so far. :mrgreen:

I saw that Wimpy Button also has a play counter as an option which I think is pretty nice. Do anyone knows if it's possible to show the counts on the website?


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 7, 2008)

Ok, here's what I wound up doing: I used the Wimpy Button so I could have "play" buttons anywhere I wanted:
http://artvista.net/VGP_Demos.htm


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## Thonex (Mar 7, 2008)

Hans Adamson @ Fri Mar 07 said:


> Ok, here's what I wound up doing: I used the Wimpy Button so I could have "play" buttons anywhere I wanted:
> http://artvista.net/VGP_Demos.htm



Very nice Hans. I like that it is so unobtrusive and the color shows which ones you have listened to.

But the best past about it was the VGP1... great sound... and very nice demos!! :D


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 7, 2008)

Thonex @ Fri Mar 07 said:


> Hans Adamson @ Fri Mar 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, here's what I wound up doing: I used the Wimpy Button so I could have "play" buttons anywhere I wanted:
> ...


Thanks Thonex,
I appreciate your comments. :D Hope to have more new demos of VGP2 soon.


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 7, 2008)

Thonex @ Fri Mar 07 said:


> Hans Adamson @ Fri Mar 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, here's what I wound up doing: I used the Wimpy Button so I could have "play" buttons anywhere I wanted:
> ...


Thonex,

These buttons are great. You can change the size. I'm having fun now:
http://artvista.net/Virtual_Grand_Piano.html


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## Thonex (Mar 7, 2008)

Hans Adamson @ Fri Mar 07 said:


> Thonex @ Fri Mar 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Hans Adamson @ Fri Mar 07 said:
> ...



Nice.... but the only thing I don't like about the buttons is there is now way to fast forward or rewind.... only go back to the beginning. Also.... I guess there is no way to control the volume. But the simplicity of the button is awesome.

Cheers,

T


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 8, 2008)

Yes,

That's true. I also wonder if a lot of buttons adds significant loading time?


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## mixolydian (Mar 8, 2008)

Thonex @ Sat Mar 08 said:


> Nice.... but the only thing I don't like about the buttons is there is now way to fast forward or rewind.... only go back to the beginning. Also.... I guess there is no way to control the volume.


As you can set the MP3 Player and even Rave to have just Buttons it may be possible to add that. Don't know how, but it is indeed a good idea.



Hans Adamson @ Sat Mar 08 said:


> Yes,
> 
> That's true. I also wonder if a lot of buttons adds significant loading time?


As they doesn't preload anything from the MP3's I don't think so. The plain HTML code is small and fast in loading, even the wimpy_button.swf is just 10 KB.

There are tools for webmaster where you can check the loading time of your sites (even with different download speeds). Don't have a url at hands but I'll looking for it...


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 8, 2008)

:arrow: I would like to warn everyone to stay away from another "button"-style flash player that is available from many sources on the Internet. This kind creates a flash object by encoding the soundfile and incorporating it in a single object. It has similar appearance and function, but it turns a stereo file into mono. I tried this before I got the Wimpy button. I almost put it up on the website before I A/B'd the button with the original mp3 and noticed the difference in sound.


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## Ed (Mar 8, 2008)

Waywyn @ Thu Mar 06 said:


> Ed @ Thu Mar 06 said:
> 
> 
> > If someone realy wants your track only letting them stream it isnt going to stop them.
> ...



No need to hack it or use any fancy tricks, on my other PC I used a Sound Blaster Live which could simply record in "what you hear mode", which did as it said, recorded exactly what you were hearing. So, to record any audio all I had to do was simply press record in any recording software. Done. Ive recorded it. My Hammerfall cant do that for some reason. 

Second way of doing it is routing it out through a mixer and back into your PC. 

Third way of doing it, ages ago there were programs that can record streaming audio, and Im sure today theres still programs that can do that. 

So, if you dont want your track being downloaded or recorded having it stream will not make one bit of difference. It would make it just slightly more annoying for someone to do it if they really wanted to. And lets face most music tech people would have outboard mixers, so it would be real easy for them to do it the second way I talked about. If you want it really not used, you are going to need to have one of those annoying recordings over the top that plays a beep every 6 seconds or something or a voice going "THIS IS COPYRIGHTED" every so often, which wouldnt necessarily stop them downloading it either, just piss them off and make them think theres no point. 

Ed


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 8, 2008)

If a thief is hell-bent on stealing your computer, he will succeed no matter what you do. You can put the best locks on your house, but sooner or later there will be an opportunity for him to succeed. Still, aunt Gertrude will not be able to pull it off.


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## Mark Belbin (Mar 13, 2008)

Hey Hans,

I use the Hideout player at wavelore.com. The version yu'll see if you go there is the streamlined one, but there's a "full" setting which displays more transport controls etc.

Be aware, though, that I put the mp3's up on a seperate demos page as links for those inclined to listen in the player of their choice, or whose monitors are not connected to their online computers, so having the music downloaded wasn't a concern. Therefor, I haven't investigated how secure the player itself is.

I was warned by someone that (on their site, not mine) the player's developers somehow placed their music in the playlist! I decided to monitor the situation, and it never happened. I'd venture that it was either an isolated incident, or the guy responsible got a hefty slap on the wrist. I don't even see how it's possible, but whatever the case, as long as this doesn't happen and the player _doesn't play anything until a visitor tells it to_, I'm a happy camper.

Good luck with finding a solution,

Belbin


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 14, 2008)

Thanks Mark,

I will check it out.

/Hans


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## Conor (Mar 16, 2008)

The button seems to be working well for you, but if you're ever interested in upgrading to the full Wimpy Player, I can tell you that the whole "folder = playlist" system is just one option for ease of use, and is NOT actually a requirement. In fact you can set up your playlists however you want, pulling mp3 files from anywhere in your site and displaying them in any order, by using XML files (which is very, very easy once you have a template).

At the moment my site (http://conorbrace.com) has four different playlists with different styles of music, but everything's in one folder.

Personally I much prefer the Player over the Button -- as far as the user is concerned it basically works like iTunes or WinAmp or whatever (and can even be skinned to look like them). More functional _and_ more intuitive IMO.


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## musicpete (Mar 16, 2008)

Guys, I don't want to interrupt your interesting discussion, but it is impossible to prevent people from downloading the original .mp3. You just need a regular download program that can monitor the data streams going in and out the computer (e.g. Orbit downloader can do that).

If you don't want people to access the mp3, I suggest the following steps:

1) Remove it from your website and remove all links pointing to it.
2) Delete it from your computer and then safely delete it using specialised software.


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