# Which “Standard” DAW should I learn?



## David Han (Oct 19, 2020)

I’m currently on Studio One for orchestral music right now. I love it. Have no problem with it. But I’m a student and I noticed a lot of music schools only accept DAWs like Logic, Pro Tools, Cubase,...etc. 

I have a feeling that I’m gonna need to know how to use at least one of them in the future. So which one should I learn? I’m on Mac right now so Logic seems like the best option for me...and it’s also very versatile. But I’m open to suggestions!


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## Robo Rivard (Oct 19, 2020)

Cubase.


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## DS_Joost (Oct 20, 2020)

David Han said:


> I’m currently on Studio One for orchestral music right now. I love it. Have no problem with it. But I’m a student and I noticed a lot of music schools only accept DAWs like Logic, Pro Tools, Cubase,...etc.
> 
> I have a feeling that I’m gonna need to know how to use at least one of them in the future. So which one should I learn? I’m on Mac right now so Logic seems like the best option for me...and it’s also very versatile. But I’m open to suggestions!



If I would be betting on the future I would be HARD betting on Studio One. It's really quickly not only catching up to, but in some ways running circles around those aforementioned DAWs.

It's not that these DAWs aren't good, mind you. They are. But you already have one of the finest and most professional DAWs in the world available to you. And, looking at the future, I wouldn't be surprised Studio One quickly overtaking those. It's becoming more and more popular by the day, and with good reason. Presonus also is a big company, Studio One has it's own hardware ecosystem around it (like Pro Tools and even more so than Cubase) and they are a company that's fast, agile and they listen. This is the business of the future. Avid's and Steinberg's old dinosaur-like way of running a company is slowly becoming more obsolete, I hope. It's change or be forgotten in the long run.

Stay with it. In a year or two, all these schools will accept Studio One (the fact that they already haven't means they are quite behind, and it's not you!). Studio One is a professional DAW. Not becoming one, it already is and has been for quite a few years actually. The fact that some institutions don't want or accept that is stupid. Really, really stupid.

Schools are slow institutions and many times can't keep up. Keep that in mind.


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## Kent (Oct 20, 2020)

IF you want to assist somebody after going to school, you should learn Pro Tools and (Logic or Cubase). If you want to assist a certain kind of composer, replace Logic/Cubase with DP.

If you want to make it on your own, use whatever you're most comfortable with.


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## khollister (Oct 20, 2020)

If you are asking because you plan on applying to a music school and want to be ready for classes, then Logic makes sense as you are a Mac user and it is the leasst expensive.

If you are asking for professional reasons (interoperability and familiarity with client projects) then Pro Tools might make the most sense (although it wouldn't be my first choice for intensive MIDI stuff).


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## DS_Joost (Oct 20, 2020)

kmaster said:


> IF you want to assist somebody after going to school, you should learn Pro Tools and (Logic or Cubase). If you want to assist a certain kind of composer, replace Logic/Cubase with DP.
> 
> If you want to make it on your own, use whatever you're most comfortable with.



That depends quite a lot on where you live, actually. I know LA has a hard-on for Pro Tools, but here in Europe that is changing, and fast. It's also because Hollywood and LA are losing lasting power, (disillusion and all that) but that is a discussion for a different time perhaps. At least with the small to middle studios, I see fast changes. Only the biggest ones are staying with it, and even they are on the brink of changing up because the market is quickly turning on it's head. All three, the music, games and film-industry are subject to changing paradigms. Film will be the last, but it, too, is changing. I guess a global pandemic has big consequences, to name one reason for this.

Studio One and especially (but not surprisingly) Reaper are coming on quite hard here in the Netherlands, at least. Especially with game studios, even large ones (Ubisoft is known to use Reaper internally for example, although not a Dutch company).


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## dzilizzi (Oct 20, 2020)

I would say ProTools, only because every teacher I've had so far uses it. But, a lot of the big composers out there use Logic or Cubase. The school will teach you how to use whatever they want you to use. 

To me, Cubase is a pain coming from other DAW's. Most of the others work similarly and once you learn one, the others will not be difficult. Cubase is just different. So if you have time to learn a second DAW, I would almost recommend learning Cubase.


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## PuerAzaelis (Oct 20, 2020)

This is interesting what features does it have that are so different from other DAWs


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## Kent (Oct 20, 2020)

PuerAzaelis said:


> This is interesting what features does it have that are so different from other DAWs


Hang on quit


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## Noeticus (Oct 20, 2020)

I use STUDIO ONE and I see that they have their eyes on the future.


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## Crowe (Oct 20, 2020)

Ehm. I suggest sticking and mastering what you know and are working in and learning new software as it becomes a necessity, unless you can be *certain* that you must learn Pro Tools *or* Logic *or* whatever else for the future.

Like a programming language many principles carry over between DAWs, and eventually when switching software it shouldn't take more than a week to gain some semblance of proficiency.

It's not like Studio One isn't professional-grade software.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 20, 2020)

The one I use. Ignore anyone who says anything else, because those are incorrect answers.


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## rnieto (Oct 20, 2020)

Traditionally, ProTools is used for recording stems and delivering them in a session file to the music editor or the re-recording mixer, but I think not too many composers use it as their main DAW. 

It's still worth learning, since it's still a film and TV industry standard.


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## RogiervG (Oct 20, 2020)

DS_Joost said:


> That depends quite a lot on where you live, actually. I know LA has a hard-on for Pro Tools, but here in Europe that is changing, and fast. It's also because Hollywood and LA are losing lasting power, (disillusion and all that) but that is a discussion for a different time perhaps. At least with the small to middle studios, I see fast changes. Only the biggest ones are staying with it, and even they are on the brink of changing up because the market is quickly turning on it's head. All three, the music, games and film-industry are subject to changing paradigms. Film will be the last, but it, too, is changing. I guess a global pandemic has big consequences, to name one reason for this.
> 
> Studio One and especially (but not surprisingly) Reaper are coming on quite hard here in the Netherlands, at least. Especially with game studios, even large ones (Ubisoft is known to use Reaper internally for example, although not a Dutch company).


 Ubi and all game companies are in fact big nuendo users. they might use reaper somewhere within their many teams, but in the end of the day its nuendo that counts.


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## rnieto (Oct 20, 2020)

RogiervG said:


> Ubi and all game companies are in fact big nuendo users. they might use reaper somewhere within their many teams, but in the end of the day its nuendo that counts.



Not quite. The largest three Ubi studios (Montreal, Toronto and Quebec) use primarily Reaper and ProTools.


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## Vik (Oct 20, 2020)

Since you're on Mac, and since Logic is so inexpensive, I'd get Logic first. That can come in handy anyway, because so many Mac users use Logic.
If you need a PC DAW, I'd recommend Cubase, unless you want to become a sound engineer, in which case I'd recommend Pro Tools.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 20, 2020)

kmaster said:


> IF you want to assist somebody after going to school, you should learn Pro Tools and (Logic or Cubase). If you want to assist a certain kind of composer, replace Logic/Cubase with DP.
> 
> If you want to make it on your own, use whatever you're most comfortable with.



This is the right answer.


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## jonvog (Oct 20, 2020)

What @kmaster said. Adding to this: I think if you ever plan on recording your compositions and want to be able to prep sessions for the scoring stage, you most propably will want to know your way around protools. not every but most of the studios still use protools.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 20, 2020)

Seriously, every one of the major DAWs is going to do the job.

MOTU Digital Performer, Logic, Cubase, and Pro Tools have been under constant development for decades. Programs that have come out more recently have them to aim at.


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## b_elliott (Oct 20, 2020)

FWIW I noticed that the NY Aaron Copland School of Music has Pete Calandra using Pro Tools in his classes. In fact he posted a short series on Pro Tools basics starting from scratch then takes his students to advanced midi editing. If you did this series you'd be up and running in no time.

Then there is Berklee School of Music using Ableton. There is that to consider since Ableton has a huge active market which would interest most any college.

Link to PT series:


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## NYC Composer (Oct 20, 2020)

I’m a Mac head and have been one for well over 100 years (okay, since the late 80s.) I’ve also been using Cubase since 1997. I get along with it ok, but my advice for anyone who wants to stay on Mac is to learn Logic and ProTools. Logic, because I believe it’s the most CPU efficient on Mac, and ProTools, because it’s the embedded industry standard and I think it will remain so for quite a while.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 20, 2020)

PuerAzaelis said:


> This is interesting what features does it have that are so different from other DAWs


Everything is VST. I had trouble figuring out how to hook up the audio because it is VST. 

You have to basically highlight the midi sections to be allowed to edit it. I open the piano roll in PT and draw in midi wherever I want it and the instrument will play. With Cubase, I've highlighted a bar, edited it, realized I want to edit the next bar now, and I have to go back and highlight the next bar to edit it. It's very weird to me how much of a pain it can be. 

When inserting an instrument or effect, they don't all show up. You have to use the search box, though it will start putting the regularly used ones in the pop-up after a while. 

I'm sure there are other things. I do love the Chord Track.


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## rnieto (Oct 21, 2020)

RogiervG said:


> then tell why over the last year or so, all the audio related job offers required Nuendo knowledge, and not Pro-tools or even Reaper? (why would they do that, if nuendo is barely used?)
> Why are there behind the scene articles and interviews on the webs, that talk about nuendo use with the studios?
> why are there even photos to be found, that show monitors with nuendo running?



Because some of Ubi's smaller European studios, like Berlin and Dusseldorf, do use Nuendo and they have been hiring aggressively. That doesn't mean that most of the hundreds of sound people at the 30+ Ubi studios around the world use Nuendo.



RogiervG said:


> so pardon me if i doubt that ubi uses reaper more than nuendo throughout all their studios.



No worries, doubt away. I just commented on a piece of incorrect information, but I'm not interested in convincing anyone. Peace!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 22, 2020)

This CineSamples poll result may be of interest


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## NYC Composer (Oct 22, 2020)

Only if you’re on Instagram, apparently.


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## EgM (Oct 22, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> This CineSamples poll result may be of interest




Funny how they list those 6 DAWs as most popular omitting Studio One, but yet their (email) comment under it says:

"_Logic and Cubase are still the preferred DAW's of choice for most composers. Do you agree? What do you think about Studio One that is rapidly becoming a proven tool in the hands of music creators? What do you use and would you change to a new DAW? Let us know and see what other's are saying._ "

I think Studio One is more popular than DP10 these days honestly.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 22, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> Only if you’re on Instagram, apparently.



I don't know if the poll was conducted on Instagram or offline. Either way, it has over a billion users worldwide, so, even if it was conducted there, I'm sure they managed to get one or two responses.



EgM said:


> Funny how they list those 6 DAWs as most popular omitting Studio One, but yet their (email) comment under it says:
> 
> "_Logic and Cubase are still the preferred DAW's of choice for most composers. Do you agree? What do you think about Studio One that is rapidly becoming a proven tool in the hands of music creators? What do you use and would you change to a new DAW? Let us know and see what other's are saying._ "
> 
> I think Studio One is more popular than DP10 these days honestly.



I guess based on their surveying, S1 wasn't popular enough for the top 6 spots. If they run the poll 12-24 months from now, that may change depending on what Presonus do.


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## JonS (Oct 22, 2020)

I use DP on a Mac for more than 30 years. I feel each DAW can get the job done so tryout demos and see which you gravitate towards. Cubase seems to rule PC and Logic Pro on the Mac, though lots of ole timers like me prefer DP the most. I don’t think one can mess this decision up.


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## tack (Oct 22, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The one I use. Ignore anyone who says anything else, because those are incorrect answers.


Oh Nick I didn't realize you were a Reaper user.


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## purple (Oct 22, 2020)

Pro tools is the only one you _need_ to know. It's the standard for most studios recording-wise. As far as composing, everyone is different so it will be all about who you work for. If you had to pick a second I'd say logic because most studios also use logic per client request and it's one of the most popular DAWs overall.


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## Tim_Wells (Oct 22, 2020)

It may not be something you really need to worry about. It's kind of like asking today, what Kentucky Derby horse should I pick in 2023. See how your career progresses and what direction it takes. In a few years you will be able to answer your own question. 

I understand that when your young you want to get a leg up and do everything right. But there are plenty of other things to learn. And if and when the time comes that you have start using a new DAW, you'll be able to adjust.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 22, 2020)

tack said:


> Oh Nick I didn't realize you were a Reaper user.



I'm just grim, not a reaper.


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## mscp (Oct 22, 2020)

Learn whatever will get the job done first. Then if you ever need to switch for a reason, just switch. Demo all. Studios don’t care what you use for composing. They only care about how you deliver the stems.


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## JohnG (Oct 22, 2020)

I still use DP after quite some time at this; never found something it can't do musically.

I use Pro Tools to record and mix.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 23, 2020)

EgM said:


> I think Studio One is more popular than DP10 these days honestly.



I'd say the S1 users are currently the 'loudest' (or call them the most enthusiastic ones) on the Internet, but not as many as you might think.


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## AndreasHe (Nov 2, 2020)

When you finished school, everybody will use Studio One  

For sure not, but I think time will change the software in some studios and new studios will popup and they will consider Studio One as their main way.

Some older software might also be frustrating and you should not hang too long in a frustrating loop, because of a legacy software. There is so much to learn in a DAW and the logic behind you can usually find also in other DAWs but with a different way. 

Means there are 2 parts of using a DAW:
1. Knowing what to do in general
2. Knowing how to do this in a specific DAW

... and the first aspect is universal and required for any DAW.


So I agree to others saying, keep going with Studio One as it is great and you will learn a lot and later moving to any different DAW will be possible and easier if you know already a lot. As it takes a lot of time to learn a DAW and that works only by realy using it, it would take you too much time to be prepared for a change of an alternative DAW - who knows ... if you decide learning Logic today, the studio may expect knowledge in Studio One tomorrow.

My own history is:
1. Maschine - and was frustrated about the limits
2. Reaper - It was too frustrating to me as well
3. Studio One - wow, now I am in a flow and happy and can concentrate on making music - love it!


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## rudi (Nov 3, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> Like a programming language many principles carry over between DAWs, and eventually when switching software it shouldn't take more than a week to gain some semblance of proficiency.
> 
> It's not like Studio One isn't professional-grade software.


This!


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## nglez (Nov 3, 2020)

Def. ProTools, this is still the most used DAW in the pro audio industry, not knowing your way around it can put you at a disadvantage when applying for internships, assistant jobs etc...


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## reids (Nov 4, 2020)

I like Cubase and Logic.


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## marclawsonmusic (Feb 7, 2021)

Q: Which version of Pro Tools is the current (movie) industry standard?


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## Gingerbread (Feb 7, 2021)

I've wondered about this---as far as mixing and engineering goes, is there actually anything Pro Tools can do that Logic or Cubase _can't_ do? Is there an actual _practical_ feature-based reason why Pro Tools is the default standard for pro mixing, other than historical tradition and the fact that "everyone uses it"?

Or can Logic/Cubase do pretty much anything and everything Pro Tools can do?


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## macmac (Feb 7, 2021)

I’ve wondered why so many say they mix in PT instead of [their composing DAW] Logic, Cubase etc. The console familiarity?


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## Rapollo (Feb 7, 2021)

Gingerbread said:


> I've wondered about this---as far as mixing and engineering goes, is there actually anything Pro Tools can do that Logic or Cubase _can't_ do? Is there an actual _practical_ feature-based reason why Pro Tools is the default standard for pro mixing, other than historical tradition and the fact that "everyone uses it"?
> 
> Or can Logic/Cubase do pretty much anything and everything Pro Tools can do?


If you’re not using a HDX system, nope. HDX hardware provides native zero-latency monitoring for tracking which is one of the reasons it is a standard for tracking/recording.

Others DAWs can generally do more feature wise - but it is a immovable standard and common language between studios. By that I mean it’s keys, controls are unchangeable so if you can use it, you can use it anywhere.

With Avid and it’s pricing I dream of Reaper taking its place... but that just probably won’t happen


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## johnsrev (Feb 8, 2021)

Pro Tools became intrenched in recording studios and post production studios because of being first to the party as a replacement for the multi-track analog and digital recorders. It wasn't until version 8 that midi functionality and music notation was added when Avid purchased Sibelius. So, from a "standard of the industry" standpoint it served recording engineers and music editors first and not composers. 

That is why music editors, dubbing stages, and scoring stages use Pro Tools. Media composers have to deal with this fact in the US. Right now all music scores and stems are required to be delivered in Pro Tools format. Simply stated, if you are preparing to be a media/TV/Film composer, you have to learn Pro Tools. I moved to Logic Pro when it was still an Emagic product after using Pro Tools until version 6. 

I continued with Logic Pro after Apple bought Emagic. This was mainly because of the more comprehensive midi capabilities and integrated music notation at that time. The only thing Logic Pro has that Studio One 5 doesn't is surround sound. Other than that, Studio One 5 has much better workflow and sound design capabilities. Some quibble about content, VI's, and plugging between the two DAWs, but the reality is most Vi's that professional composers use are from third party developers who deliver greater sonic quality and realism.

I have been in this business since 1975. If I were you starting out now, I would stick with Studio One and learn Pro Tools. It is a fact of life every professional media composer has to deal with. I hope this gives you a realistic perspective for your decision. The advice from others in this stream is equally valid. I wish you all the best in your journey as a composer.


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## kilgurt (Feb 8, 2021)

Work with Cubase. Know ProTools.


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## marclawsonmusic (Feb 8, 2021)

johnsrev said:


> I have been in this business since 1975. If I were you starting out now, I would stick with Studio One and *learn Pro Tools*.


Asking again - which version? 

I learned back on version 8, but haven't touched it for 10 years. If I bought today, it looks like I would get version 2020.11. My guess is that most studios are probably not on the latest, and probably not on 8. Any suggestions?


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## JonS (Feb 8, 2021)

If you are on a PC go with Cubase. If you are using a Mac go with Logic Pro or Digital Performer. I've been using DP happily for over 30 years. I know of no film and tv composers that use Studio One. Pro Tools is the way you have to deliver your stems so only get Pro Tools when you secure a good gig.


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## johnsrev (Feb 10, 2021)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Asking again - which version?
> 
> I learned back on version 8, but haven't touched it for 10 years. If I bought today, it looks like I would get version 2020.11. My guess is that most studios are probably not on the latest, and probably not on 8. Any suggestions?


Actually, 2020.12 just came out. I have kept up with the incremental updates and have felt that until now it wasn't worth the price of admission. With this version Melodyne 5 Essential is integrated, audio to midi problems have been fixed, and a new interface called Carbon combines 8 HDX chips with native capabilities for a hybrid workflow. 

I wouldn't go for the Pro Tools Ultimate version. I let the studios pay that freight. The regular Pro Tools comes with the same number of VI's and Plugins as the Ultimate. Avid is offering a free trial at the present time. Also, here is a link to more info with videos: https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/avid-pro-tools-2020-12-released. 

The main thing is that if you need to transfer your stems to Pro Tools for delivery, the Native version is all you really need. Studios and Dubbing Stages will be satisfied with that because it can be read and integrated into their HDX systems. The same goes for music editors. You would be using Pro Tools as your multi-track recorder. Your composition system would be the one that works for you. That would save you from having to jump through "Pro Tools hoops" and possibly needing a slave computer with VSL Ensemble Pro. Download the free trial and see what you think. All the best and good luck.


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## Akarin (Feb 10, 2021)

My take is that any DAW that works for you for composing is fine. You are comfortable with S1? Use that. But at some point, you should also teach yourself a bit of Pro Tools as it is still a standard for file exchange with others when it comes to mixing.


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## gyprock (Feb 10, 2021)

JonS said:


> If you are on a PC go with Cubase. If you are using a Mac go with Logic Pro or Digital Performer. I've been using DP happily for over 30 years. I know of no film and tv composers that use Studio One. Pro Tools is the way you have to deliver your stems so only get Pro Tools when you secure a good gig.


I’ve been evaluating Logic, Cubase and Studio One on a Mac. From a GUI perspective, Logic wins. From a preset, track management and score perspective, Studio One wins. Cubase is powerful but clunky. If you know your way around it, it’s very powerful but it is not intuitive. At the end of the day, I’m learning all 3. I think Studio One has the best future once it has better articulation management and better video and SMPTE support. We are almost at the point where the DAWs are more powerful than our ability to fully utilise all their features.


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## marclawsonmusic (Feb 10, 2021)

johnsrev said:


> Actually, 2020.12 just came out.


Thanks for the reply. It sounds like if you have the latest version and need to send a session to someone with a different version, that is not an issue. That was my main concern.


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## JohnG (Feb 10, 2021)

DS_Joost said:


> I know LA has a hard-on for Pro Tools, but here in Europe that is changing, and fast.


That has not been my experience at least with recording a large ensemble. In UK, Europe, Asia, and the US Pro Tools remains the standard for _recording_ orchestra (recording, by contrast with composing). Certainly, some large companies use other things internally, which I assume is a result of PT being so expensive and that it's been tied to AVID hardware for most of its existence.

If you're recording a pop song with a handful of instruments, I doubt you need PT, though it is handy having the near-zero latency for the players. Besides, it's very expensive compared with alternatives.

*Composing*

For composing, by contrast with recording, naturally people make great music on just about anything. Some programs do, however, have advanced functionality that make it easier and faster to massage tempo, vary clicks (for 5/8 7/8 and so on), and for working with film, among other things.

If you're writing songs, I would think just about anything works. For film, I like what I'm used to, as do most composers.


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## AudioLoco (Feb 10, 2021)

Pro Tools is still the standard for very large recording facilities and certainly any film related task.

The reasons are mainly: 
-it was the first kid on the block and actual alternative to analog (like someone already said)
-it has zero latency while recording and you can apply effects in real time (on the uber expensive HDx only) 
-It integrates with other AVID video products that are widely used in post production
-It is very good for mixing
-Most studios have it, so it is perfect for passing on sessions from place to place
-people in the industry are used to it.
-people in the industry are used to it.
-people in the industry are used to it.

This granted ubiquity is dwindling, starting from the bottom tier of new young producers, and is destined to continue being less and less a off a standard, in my humble opinion.

Still, for working in commercial studios and assisting, a good knowledge of PT is important.
For composing, I would say it is the worst DAW of the bunch. (other might disagree, I know!)
I guess a basic knowledge of Logic and Cubase would be good too.
Ultimately if you start assisting, you will adopt whatever DAW the composer for whom you are working uses.

As a personal opinion, I am partial to Cubase. (Not only because I am used to it) 
Its main advantage as a whole, in my opinion, is having both amazing Midi AND audio capabilities under the same roof.


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## JohnG (Feb 10, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> I am partial to Cubase. (Not only because I am used to it)
> Its main advantage as a whole, in my opinion, is having both amazing Midi AND audio capabilities under the same roof.


Honestly, the main ones all have that these days. Cubase I'm sure is excellent, but so is DP, Logic, _et al._

As far as PT being less of a standard, that has been predicted many times. We'll see. Personally I like going to any studio anywhere and knowing:

a. It's going to work; 
b. I can make it work and -- more importantly:
c. My engineer can make it work really, really fast.

When the recording is costing $10k/£10k an hour, it's comforting to have predictable technology. Some day it is bound to change, as everything eventually does. I know that DP, nuendo etc. can do the job too.


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## Robert Kooijman (Feb 10, 2021)

Really, for composing Studio One's workflow can't be beat IMO.
Working with it is a bit like watching Guy Michelmore's video's that always put a smile on your face 
Now he's doing very well using Cubase. But if you start from scratch, value innovation and an intuitive GUI, it's definitely worth checking out if Studio One works for you.


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## AudioLoco (Feb 10, 2021)

JohnG said:


> Honestly, the main ones all have that these days. Cubase I'm sure is excellent, but so is DP, Logic, _et al._
> 
> As far as PT being less of a standard, that has been predicted many times. We'll see. Personally I like going to any studio anywhere and knowing:
> 
> ...


Hahah I know John, you are totally right... And I also agree with the points you raised.
Every year someone predicts the death of PT and it never happens. In some circles probably never will.... 

Honestly at least, in the last few years, I see engineers stopped raising eyebrows and chuckling lightly when I they hear your studio doesn't have Pro Tools as a main DAW.
When there is a small studio or hobbyst using PT it's me raising eyebrows now... 

I am also sure other DAWS can do an excellent audio job (except Logic ) but I just find Cubase to be excellent for the task and have used it to record/produce/mix many audio only projects; Rock/Alternative/Jazz/Blues albums played millions of times, online and in TV shows all over the world without anyone complaining they can't hear the "Pro Tools sound" on it.

As for PT, it is a great program, but stability is not exactly its forte. A lot of people have experiences of many crashes and bugs. 
What can you expect from Avid?... it is a freeware program after all...


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 10, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> -it has zero latency while recording and you can apply effects in real time (on the uber expensive HDx only)


Pardon my ignorance, but can’t any modern DAW do this? I record live with Logic/Cubase and a Thunderbolt interface, and there’s no latency. And I can also use many effect plugins in real-time.


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## xanderscores (Feb 10, 2021)

I've been working with Cubase since version 3, some 25 years ago. Last year I switched completely to Studio One, never regretted it. I'd have a look at Logic to broaden the horizon, but otherwise keep to s1. If you know how DAW work, you can work your way through all of them with minimal effort.


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## AudioLoco (Feb 10, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but can’t any modern DAW do this? I record live with Logic/Cubase and a Thunderbolt interface, and there’s no latency. And I can also use many effect plugins in real-time.


I am with you. The difference is not that huge. You can record with the plugins affecting the incoming audio. Also the audio is treated in real time by the Hdx hardware INSIDE the Pro Tools mixer instead of being controlled by a different software like TotalMix if you have an RME interface for example. PT Hdx users bang on about this feauture quiet a lot.


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## JohnG (Feb 10, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but can’t any modern DAW do this? I record live with Logic/Cubase and a Thunderbolt interface, and there’s no latency. And I can also use many effect plugins in real-time.


You can record with near-zero latency using DP, but you have to bypass some stuff. I don't use other DAWs so maybe they can too these days.

*..But wait, there's more...*

However, the latency in PT is _really _near zero, not just close to zero or "real good." The round-trip latency back to the players' headphones is almost nothing, which allows players to execute very intense rhythms without struggle or mushiness. That, plus the ability with an HDX system to handle enormous sessions sets it apart.

*Very large*

Last time I recorded a huge session and knew the details, there were 60-80 mics. That's a lot of tracks. PT HDX is what people use for that kind of session because it definitely, 100% can handle it. As many overdubs as you want; full orchestra etc.

*Fast changeover*

Apart from latency and track count, PT can switch from cue to cue extremely fast, much faster than many DAWs, so going back and forth from one cue to another is easy. And it can crash, but it's 100x better than it was 15 years ago, when restarts were quite common.

Players are very happy to see PT in the studio.

Look -- I'm no fanboy for AVID or PT; my mom doesn't work there. It's really expensive, just for starters. But it maintains market share despite that for big, can't-fail situations. When you're spending $100k or more in a day, you just can't be wondering about whether you can overdub another pass or not.


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## JohnG (Feb 10, 2021)

xanderscores said:


> If you know how DAW work, you can work your way through all of them with minimal effort.


That depends on what you are doing. For sure, not all DAWs have the same ability to handle changing meters and clicks that DP does, unless some of them recently have upgraded. I write a lot of meter changes, from even to odd etc., so that matters a lot to me. Most songwriters, by contrast, would never use those features.

There are some quirks to Logic, to Cubase, DP -- all of them -- that affect sometimes just orchestration, sometimes composing.

If your point is, "you can make great music with any DAW" I 100% agree.


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## audio1 (Feb 10, 2021)

If possible, learning to use a lot of Daws is a good thing, but I would stick with Studio One.

Then Get Protools First {free version} and learn how to use it well so you have that knowledge. Protools is still the best for straight audio design post production and mixing music by far. The fact they offer a subscription you can turn on and off is really cool if you don't need to use it often, but the times you do need it, its king. Other daws are just to clunky for this. type of work. Think of this way, Protools put the midi/vi into an audio engine. Logic and Cubase put the audio midi/VI engine.

Also, if you can afford it get Cubase Elements 11 for $99. Its cheap and it will let you learn most of what it offers. 

Reason is sort of becoming a dead issue, but the "rack" thing is something to consider down the road. If you even went to mac. logic would be easy enough to pick up and its not that expensive.

Forget Ableton. Its works with VI's but it's really a loop track builder. It was never meant for scoring.

I wouldn't do anything more than that and suggest focusing on VI's, soft synths and sample libraries. 

Where you run them should not matter that much.

Hope that helps.

x


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## dzilizzi (Feb 10, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Hahah I know John, you are totally right... And I also agree with the points you raised.
> Every year someone predicts the death of PT and it never happens. In some circles probably never will....
> 
> Honestly at least, in the last few years, I see engineers stopped raising eyebrows and chuckling lightly when I they hear your studio doesn't have Pro Tools as a main DAW.
> ...


PT has been stable since version 11 for me. Once I could use a 64 bit OS, I've had very few problems with it. And I started with it when it still was "freeware". And Cubase is not that stable. I can crash it. But then I can crash pretty much anything. 

I think you can't really compare a Rock/Pop/Jazz/Country recording with a full orchestra recording. Even if it is just the limit on the number of tracks recording at once, most of those mentioned can't handle unlimited tracks. Nuendo is probably the exception. 

But, I'm only a hobbyist who loves working in ProTools because it is easy.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 10, 2021)

JohnG said:


> You can record with near-zero latency using DP, but you have to bypass some stuff. I don't use other DAWs so maybe they can too these days.
> 
> *..But wait, there's more...*
> 
> ...


Great points! I never thought about it that way. If PT can handle those type of gigantic sessions, it's no wonder big studios are hesitant to leave a system they already know well, and are already heavily invested.


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## AudioLoco (Feb 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> PT has been stable since version 11 for me. Once I could use a 64 bit OS, I've had very few problems with it. And I started with it when it still was "freeware". And Cubase is not that stable. I can crash it. But then I can crash pretty much anything.
> 
> I think you can't really compare a Rock/Pop/Jazz/Country recording with a full orchestra recording. Even if it is just the limit on the number of tracks recording at once, most of those mentioned can't handle unlimited tracks. Nuendo is probably the exception.
> 
> But, I'm only a hobbyist who loves working in ProTools because it is easy.


I wasn't comparing the total possible number of inputs, I am talking about ease of audio editing, routing flexibility and other audio related features. 

The numbers are pretty good too....
Cubase Pro has 128 max amount of physical inputs numbers of tracks if I'm not mistaken. 
Paired with an RME MadiFace XT you can easily reach that....
The TotalMix software would take care of the 0 (or nearly) latency monitoring without problems.
The amount of tracks it can internally handle is unlimited. Or limited only by your system.

The only adavantage right now is that HDx monitoring feature which speeds up and simplifies things.
And the fact it is a standard. Any engineer can walk into the studio and start working right away.

As for crashing Cubase.... well you have a great talent for that I admit!  (you are on Mac I am guessing)


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## xanderscores (Feb 10, 2021)

JohnG said:


> That depends on what you are doing. ... .
> 
> If your point is, "you can make great music with any DAW" I 100% agree.


That's true, yet I stick to my reasoning, that if you know the principles of a daw you're likely to be able to get to grips with any of them within reasonable time . What's true is that daws handle different things differently - and unequally well.


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## Arbee (Feb 10, 2021)

These "which DAW?" threads are interesting. Putting personal preferences aside, if the question is "which DAW should I learn?", and if all major DAWs can do the job these days, and _if_ PT is still the most common in pro studios, then for anyone with any career aspirations at all surely that's the answer - no?

I formed this conclusion a few years ago when I came back to music after a long break and no regrets so far. PT does midi just fine these days, stability is good in my experience, and CPU management/usage is very reasonable. 

Having said that, I do confess to a having a Studio One itch that I might scratch soon, the workflow does seem to be better aligned to the modern DIY composer/producer.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 10, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> As for crashing Cubase.... well you have a great talent for that I admit!  (you are on Mac I am guessing)


Nope - PC. But, yes, I am an expert at crashing computers! I think I should put that on my resume.  

I always blamed it on my magnetic personality! 

But really, it isn't hard with Cubase. Just load an instrument. Or an effect.


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## AudioLoco (Feb 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Nope - PC. But, yes, I am an expert at crashing computers! I think I should put that on my resume.
> 
> I always blamed it on my magnetic personality!
> 
> But really, it isn't hard with Cubase. Just load an instrument. Or an effect.


I applaud your amazing skills, and your magnetic personality then!


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## Al Maurice (Feb 10, 2021)

Most of the forementioned DAWs have demos available, so you can try each one out and see which one works best for your needs. The main concern usually comes down to workflow, considering the number of hours you will be sitting with it. Also on who you will be collaborating with, and which formats they need for interchange. And if you are considering taking a course, use the one supported by your college or the industry you see yourself working: make your life easier -- avoid any unnecessary complications.


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## Lukas (Feb 10, 2021)

Arbee said:


> These "which DAW?" threads are interesting.



Hehe...opinions differ. I consider these "Which DAW?" threads one of the most annoying things since the invention of the internet  (Not this one in particular, but rather the "DAW comparison thread" phenomenon in general.)


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## Arbee (Feb 10, 2021)

Lukas said:


> I find this statement interesting - opinions differ. I consider these "Which DAW?" threads one of the most annoying things since the invention of the internet


By "interesting" I mean as a study in human behaviour 😁, I agree with you. I prefer conversations about "which wine?" or "which cheese?" to be honest 😁.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Feb 11, 2021)

Arbee said:


> I prefer conversations about "which wine?" or "which cheese?" to be honest 😁.


Same as with software: I'm not interested if there's no demo available!

Talking about DAWs: they aren't complex and sufficiently similar (even FL and Reaper), so you can actually quickly learn how to (fully) use them.


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