# New Controller Keyboard Setup - iPad for Midi Control



## Grilled Cheese (Apr 7, 2015)

Hi guys. I currently use an M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 keyboard in my DAW. It's been a solid workhorse for many years now, but I'd like to upgrade to a keyboard that *feels* a lot nicer. The Keystation has always been a bit thunk, thunk, rather blunt. 

I recently played on a Roland digital keyboard (I think it was either an FP-50 or FP-80) and was really impressed by it. Though not quite like a real piano, it still felt so much more solid and responsive to play than my Keystation. Much more enjoyable.

Most of the midi controller keyboards I've played have disappointed me in terms of feel, so I'm thinking about getting an 88 key stage keyboard and using my iPad as a midi controller. My budget is up to $3k. 

Have you had any experience using an iPad (or similar device) for midi control? Has it been a good experience for you or do you miss having physical controls to twist with your fingers? Have you used any keyboards other than a typical midi controller keyboard? Any recommendations? Have you used Touch Osc or any other similar apps?

I realise that a stage keyboard will end up costing me more for features that I won't use much (built in speakers and onboard sounds), but I'm also aware that midi controller keyboards have a lot of features that I don't use much either (I never use the transport controls on my keyboard, I never split the keyboard range or use octave transposition keys etc etc). Like a lot of composers I use the mod wheel and expression control a lot, but not much else to be honest.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Apr 7, 2015)

One thing to be careful of with stage pianos is that many are significantly bigger than most controllers so its harder to fit on/under your desk. If you just have it sitting on a stand perpendicular to your desk then it wouldn't be a problem.


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## Grilled Cheese (Apr 7, 2015)

Thanks for chiming in! You're right about the size of some stage keyboards. The Roland keyboard I played is actually smaller than my current midi controller keyboard. That's one of the reasons I quite like the design of the FP-50. The Keystation Pro is a large keyboard indeed. Sits on my large desk and I'm fine with it there.


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## Jdiggity1 (Apr 7, 2015)

For a while I used a Kawai MP10 as my main controller keyboard. It is the nicest digital piano I have played, and was the ideal midi controller for playing in piano parts. However, for anything other than piano, it was less than ideal. A heavy action was not suitable when i wanted to play delicately, or an organ / synth part. It can also get tiring if you use it all day.
My happy medium was found in a Studiologic SL-880, which i enjoy the feel of for any application I have had to do so far.

I have tried the iPad midi controller route, but didn't get into it as much as I had hoped. 
I have used TouchOSC, Lemur, and all the other ones too. I have settled (for now) on a Korg Nanokontrol for CC data (mod, expression, etc), and use the iPad as more of a key command shortcut control surface. I have a keyswitch template in Lemur I use, but I am pretty excited to use "C_brains", the new Lemur template by MIDI Kinetics.

Personally, I wouldn't spend more than $1000 on a controller keyboard. Even Casio has some great simple options.
I love having my iPad for a portable MIDI control surface, but tactile faders will always be my preferred choice.


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## chimuelo (Apr 7, 2015)

The most feature packed controller with FP Wood is the Physis K4 EX.
I use the K4 w/o the action as I prefer synth action since I need 8 x Continuos Controllers, 3 x Wheels and extensive real time options for multiple styles.
It's an awesome board for 2150 USD.
For a few hundred more you can have the PhysMod Piano and the EX action.
Slightly smaller than the KS88 but heavier as I use to use the KS88s too.
I have to have recallable splits and overlapping zones.
Great performance features and the very best MIDI control available.

http://www.viscountinstruments.com/physis-piano-k4-83.html (http://www.viscountinstruments.com/phys ... k4-83.html)




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## JohnG (Apr 7, 2015)

hi there,

while I always listen to what chimuelo says, because he's funny and he gigs 8 days a week with his keyboards, I suggest you also have a look at two recent threads:

iPad thread: http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44721

keyboard thread: http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43987

I bought a Doepfer LMK4+ and it feels about right for composing all day -- much better than my old synth / plastic keyboard, but not as heavy as a piano action. The LMK2+ is less programmable but otherwise very similar, and is less expensive, at about US$1,500


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## chimuelo (Apr 7, 2015)

Just noticed that the -iPad was added to the OPs Title.
In that case the Physis K4 can be very useful too.
All USB in's can be re routed to MIDI or USB wireless outs, etc.
A Matrix of USB + MIDI perfect for iPad or Android Tablets.
I am having a custom app made for me with 32bit MIDI resolution for Scope Modular IV and a notation app for the Android.
Nobody makes what I want, so I just employ the coders and go sit down and edit with a wireless Android since I stand so long.




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## Gerhard Westphalen (Apr 7, 2015)

I use a touchscreen in my studio. I tried using it for CC's while having my BCF2000 with the same controls right beside it and found that I never went for the touchscreen ones so I removed them. If I didn't have the BCF2000 then perhaps I might've just stayed with the touchscreen faders but for now I"m not giving up my "real" faders. However, there are people who have replaced their control surfaces with an ipad.


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## Grilled Cheese (Apr 12, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your comments. I drove for an hour to get to the biggest music store in my capital city and tried out a bunch of different digital keyboards on the weekend.

I wasn't very impressed by any of them actually. I played a lot of Roland and Yamaha keyboards and wasn't inspired by the action like I thought I would be. I'm discovering just how fussy I can be.

The Roland FA-08 workstation probably felt the best - had a weighted but lighter action that I could live with on a day to day basis, but so many features I don't need and it's a HUGE device. Almost $3K. I'm extremely cashed up at the moment but it's still not worth the money to me.

Like others who commented in this thread, I have to admit that moving real knobs and faders does feel much better than using a iPad, especially on filters.

I have no access to Studiologic or Viscount Instruments or Doepfer keyboards. Either they are not sold in my part of the world or they are too far away for me to reach. Pity, because the Studiologic Acuna does seem to fit my needs pretty well - presumably a good keyboard, 88 keys, a modest number of programmable knobs, and it even has a mount to place your iPad on for further controls.

So my quest for a great feeling midi controller keyboard has ground to a halt. I'm actually considering giving up on weighted keyboards and just going for a Nectar LX88.

Or perhaps the Arturia Keylab 88 might be the way to go? There's one of those within easy reach so perhaps another road trip is in order.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Apr 13, 2015)

Did you try out any digital pianos? They tend to have decent action since many are meant to replace acoustic pianos. The Yamaha Disklaviers would probably be the best but I'm assuming that its out of your price range.


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## proxima (Apr 13, 2015)

chrispire @ Tue Apr 07 said:


> I realise that a stage keyboard will end up costing me more for features that I won't use much (built in speakers and onboard sounds), but I'm also aware that midi controller keyboards have a lot of features that I don't use much either (I never use the transport controls on my keyboard, I never split the keyboard range or use octave transposition keys etc etc). Like a lot of composers I use the mod wheel and expression control a lot, but not much else to be honest.


Just a small correction: professional stage pianos don't tend to have speakers.

I have a Kawai MP11 and I like it, but I do think it's necessary to have a secondary keyboard for some instruments (I have an Akai MPK249 for that).

The premium is actually not too hard to figure out: the Kawai VPC1 is a keybed without onboard sounds or a mod wheel and pitch bend. It sold for perhaps $400-600 less than the MP10 (though if I recall, its action was a bit better). But the resale value is also going to be better if you don't intend on wearing the thing into the ground. It's unfortunate that the VPC1 doesn't have a mod wheel though, since it's a natural fit for those that like hammer-action keybeds.

I would say that wooden-key keyboards are not a panacea; I had a few defective units shipped to me before I got one that works well, and eventually it'll probably need to be adjusted just like an actual piano.


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## Grilled Cheese (Apr 14, 2015)

Thanks for your comments Gerhard and Proxima. I tried a variety of different digital pianos and stage keyboards. None of them really tickled me.

The Kawai VPC1 grabbed my attention some time ago, but it is simply unavailable in my country so I can never even test one, let alone order one. One of those with the addition of an Akai MPK249 or something from Nektar might have been a good setup.


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## hazza (Apr 14, 2015)

When I was keyboard shopping a few years ago I came to the same conclusion about MIDI controller keyboards and went for a Roland FP-2 digital piano, and started programming templates for MIDI Touch on my iPad. It's sometimes annoying not having an instant mod wheel and pitch bend, and yes i guess my knees do a bit of knocking on the underside of the keyboard. But the feel of the keys was paramount.


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## Stephen Rees (Apr 14, 2015)

Lemur on the iPad is worth checking out.

I think you need a degree in computer science, special and general relativity, and also quantum mechanics to understand some of its deep and dark inner workings, but setting up a simple set of cc faders isn't too bad (I managed it after about half and hour of head scratching and I'm rubbish at that sort of thing, so you'd have no problem with it I bet).

I like it. Better than any keyboard faders I've used. About £20 from the App store I think. That's pretty cheap for a configurable set of cc faders if you already have an iPad. And it can also do loads more than just faders - but I haven't found the need or interest to dive into that yet.


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## Grilled Cheese (Apr 14, 2015)

Interesting to see the different opinions here. Some work well with an iPad as a midi controller, some not so well. 

I'm quite sure that I could live with using an iPad for midi control, but I think that having contact with real faders and knobs provides a tactile experience that enhances music making greatly. 

My search for a great feeling, great looking, well featured midi keyboard continues. 

No joke, my fussiness has driven me to seriously considered starting a keyboard design company of my own. A high quality design ethos and good quality control seem to be seriously lacking in this corner of the market. There's so much room for innovation and improvement. The quick numbers I tallied don't really add up to a profitable business, but one can dream.


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