# There Will Be Blood-film score by Jonny Greenwood



## dcoscina (Dec 18, 2007)

This is my favorite score of 2007. It's filled with avant garde string techniques pioneered by Penderecki with the odd Berg-like tone row, Bartok inspired fugal sections, plaintive piano minimalism and the e-bow guitar in the distance. It's mostly scored for string sections, some small, some large. It's a challenging and provocative score that demands multiple listenings.

If anyone ever said I would be lauding a film score by a guitar player from Radiohead, I would have laughed but the proof is in the pudding and this is some serious music. The tenor of the entire score resembles music that Kubrick would have tracked under his films from Modernist composers from the '50s to 70's. The kind of music that gives an over-all character portrait without falling into the trap of being emotionally manipulative. Greenwood's score does inspire a visercal response but it probes the darkness and depths of a misanthropic persona with òÝ   jJàÝ   jJáÝ   jJâÝ   jJãÝ   jJäÝ   jJåÝ   jJæÝ   jJçÝ   jJèÝ   jJéÝ   jJêÝ   jJëÝ   jJìÝ   jJíÝ   jJîÝ   jJïÝ   jJðÝ   jJñÝ   jJòÝ   jJóÝ   jJôÝ   jJõÝ   jJöÝ   jJ÷Ý   jJøÝ   jJùÝ   jJúÝ   jJûÝ


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## dcoscina (Dec 18, 2007)

music in the trailer is right out of the film score. That in of itself is a rare thing. You'll love it.


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## Hannes_F (Dec 19, 2007)

Where did you buy it? Amazon says that it will be released in February 2008 ... ?


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## Evan Gamble (Dec 19, 2007)

Itunes


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## musicpete (Dec 19, 2007)

I suggest everyone listen to this music! I stumbled upon this due to it being recommended in another forum and I can only say: Finally a good film score. Finally!

Why did it take so many years until one guy from a rock band (albeit having classical training) showed all those "composers" (who only excel in ripping of Mr. Z and his henchmen, who themselves are mostly unable to write music which is not obnoxious and completely not fitting the visuals and/or emotional context) how to do it right? How come he got the opportunity to write GOOD, INTERESTING film MUSIC and pulled it off and all those "composers" with all their samplers and 1000's of $$$ in equipment are not even remotely able to do anything even remotely good?

Listen to this music! It restored my faith in film scores. I am very happy now.


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## Ed (Dec 19, 2007)

musicpete @ Wed Dec 19 said:


> (who only excel in ripping of Mr. Z and his henchmen, who themselves are mostly unable to write music which is not obnoxious and completely .



Hmm two of the most famous composers to come out of Media Ventures are John Powell and Harry Gregson Williams. HGW didnt even know anything about computer music when Zimmer recruited him. Both are classically trained, oh but I suppose you think all their music is obnoxious and completely fails to fit any of the visuals.

There Will be Blood sounds good, but why people have to go over the top is beyond me.


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## choc0thrax (Dec 19, 2007)

I've been listening to the score and while I don't really enjoy it on it's own I can't wait to see the film!


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## dcoscina (Dec 19, 2007)

Daniel Day Louis' acting in the trailer alone sold it for me. I mean, the kind of film techniques, combined with Louis' monologue and the music make that trailer more compelling than feature length films I've seen. Brilliant!

While some of Greenwood's score is a little abrasive, I think it's perfectly suited to the film which by all accounts is more Kubrikian than Altman-inspired. I'm pretty sure Kurbrick didn't think much of humanity as most of his films probed the depravity and depths of darkness of the human condition. They were very cynical, stark realisations which explains why much of the film scores that accompanied them were accordingly clinical, and bereft of emotion.

I hope PT Anderson knocks this one out of the park as I have been waiting for 4 years to see his follow-up to Punch Drunk Love. 

also, while I wouldn't deride MV composers, I do agree that this inspired score is a huge departure from the usual sampled slop we have been getting lately. Like David Shire's ZODIAC, this is a thoughtful, artistic approach to film scoring that we haven't heard in some time.


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## Rob Elliott (Dec 19, 2007)

Ed @ Wed Dec 19 said:


> musicpete @ Wed Dec 19 said:
> 
> 
> > (who only excel in ripping of Mr. Z and his henchmen, who themselves are mostly unable to write music which is not obnoxious and completely .
> ...




Well said Ed. Kinda irks me when someone's music is wholly discounted in some part because it is commercially approachable. I think the current crop of composers (Zimmer, JNH, Powell, etc.) do a wonderful job of UNDERscoring to their films. It's not concert music - its main purpose is to just enhance the visuals (and sub-text) on the screen.

Sorry for the rant.


Rob


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## dcoscina (Dec 19, 2007)

It's not a rant Rob. You're right. MV composers usually get projects that are very commercially driven and need scores to be immediate and approachable. PT Anderson's films are more artistic and as such demand a different approach which Greenwood fulfilled in spades. 

based on an interview, there are long stretches in the film where it's just music and visuals, like Kubrick's classic films. This also gives a composer room to breath and really run with ideas. It's harder to write great music when it's accompanying tons of dialogue, car chases, explosions, etc.


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## Niah (Dec 19, 2007)

Let's not forget that it's not everyday that a composer has a chance to write something like this, at least in the US. Film composers don't write the music that they want but rather the music that film directors and producers DEMAND it.


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## dcoscina (Dec 19, 2007)

Exactly. This style of music is as much a reflection of PT Anderson's needs as much as it is a testament to Greenwood's compositional choices and abilities. Kudos to both of them!


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## Rob Elliott (Dec 19, 2007)

dcoscina @ Wed Dec 19 said:


> It's not a rant Rob. You're right. MV composers usually get projects that are very commercially driven and need scores to be immediate and approachable. PT Anderson's films are more artistic and as such demand a different approach which Greenwood fulfilled in spades.
> 
> based on an interview, there are long stretches in the film where it's just music and visuals, like Kubrick's classic films. This also gives a composer room to breath and really run with ideas. It's harder to write great music when it's accompanying tons of dialogue, car chases, explosions, etc.




Couldn't agree more :D 


Can't wait to listen to the score and watch the film. Working on a indie right now and their is a 'dialogue free' montage (only 2 mins) - but I must say it has been a treat to work on this cue. o=< 


Rob


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## musicpete (Dec 20, 2007)

Sorry if I got your tempers up, Rob and Mr. Ed. This was not my intention, however I feel the need to clarify since you both misinterpreted and misquoted me.

First and foremost: I do NOT dismiss all of their music, which I indicated by the use of the words "mostly unable". Sorry, English is not my mother language so maybe I have difficulties expressing my feelings. However I wrote "mostly" and not "completely".

However it really is my opinion that all these modern composers deliver exciting background for movies but too often fail to support the visuals or emotions. Let's take Mr. Powell as an example: When hearing his main titles for "The Italian Job" is was delighted! Such a clever, charming composition. During the movie the music was distracting to me, disturbing my experience. Constantly pulling me out of what was happening because it was so obnoxious, so unfitting. Of course that is only my opinion. You seem to like their music and that is great! Unfortunately I do not.

Let's take another example: Mr. Zimmers music for the 3rd part in the "Pirates" trilogy. He was able to support the comedy for the most part, but when it came to anything else I felt pulled out of my movie-experience again. The current trend for background music seems to be: "Use all of the available frequency spectrum at the same time, keep the volume at maximum dB-RMS.". Unfortunately the sound effects aim to do the same thing. It all results in a loud un-discernible mash: For me it was impossible to make out what was music, dialog and sound FX in all that mess which sounded like white noise.

Again: You seem to like that. That's great! Unfortunately I can't go to the movies anymore because the music is destroying my enjoyment more than the present audience.

To conclude I want to point out that there ARE scores where the infamous Mr. Z. (in my humble opinion) totally delivered: Much of his music before and including "Gladiator" was really fitting the picture, serving the emotion, simply delivering. Even nowadays I suggest to everyone who wants to learn about modern action movie scoring to study the score to "Peacemaker". This music has it all: Action, Emotion, good themes, musical development in a 100% modern approach to movie scoring!

So please do not imply that I dismiss anything totally. Let's enjoy the music and revel in the knowledge that there still is hope for film music that not only the broad audience can enjoy.

And take a listen to "Peacemaker". It is worth listening VERY closely to that music. Peace. Oh and try to get your hands on the complete score version, since the released CD only gives a very overall impression of the scope of that music.


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## midphase (Oct 24, 2008)

Ok, I just finally watched the film (yes, I'm slow).

I've had the soundtrack for a while, so I was very familiar with it...and just like everyone else I was very impressed with hearing the music...however....

After watching the film, I have to say that while some cues work quite well with the action, for the most part the score sounded districting and generally detached from the picture (and not in a good way). I think that every time somebody does something different with the score, we all get excited, but sometime this amounts to a case of the emperor's new clothes. Different ain't always better!

There have been a few films (most notably by Kubrick) which have made use of very unusual scores which have worked quite well.

In There Will Be Blood, I was really wanting to believe that this movie would elevate the art of scoring to a whole new level...but I was actually disappointed with the end result. While I am convinced that Johnny Greenwood is quite a visionary and creative composer, I am not convinced that he watched the movie more than once before he set out to write music that felt more "inspired" by the film than actually scored to it. 

Perhaps the director might be also to blame here....afterall I can imagine Johnny turning in a dozen or so cues (Santallalla-style) without any specific placement instructions, and the director sorting through them and figuring out where they might fit best.

While many will applaud the dark and brooding atmosphere that the score creates, I can't help but think that there were some missed opportunities here which left me wondering what another composer could have achieved with such a great film.

Many of you know that I'm a big Herrmann fan, one of the things that I admire about the guy was his ability to create musically intriguing work that also managed to work beautifully with the picture....Greenwood seems to have the first part down, now he just needs to work on the rest!


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## hbuus (Oct 24, 2008)

There Will Be Blood contains brilliant performances of Daniel Day-Lewis as well as that young man who in the movie plays a preacher. I love good acting. But ok, this was about the music, I never really payed attention to it :oops:


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## Patrick de Caumette (Oct 24, 2008)

Sorry to disagree but like Kays, I found the score to be totally distracting and mis guided.

In my opinion this was the wrong movie for it.
I took me outside of the movie's universe and I was incapable to connect to the story due to it.

It is, of course, my personal opinion...


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## José Herring (Oct 24, 2008)

Wasn't most of the more "avante garde" music written by Takemitsu? Greenwood was disqualified from the academy award nomination because most of the music in the film isn't his.

Am I wrong?


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## Niah (Oct 24, 2008)

josejherring @ Fri Oct 24 said:


> Wasn't most of the more "avante garde" music written by Takemitsu? Greenwood was disqualified from the academy award nomination because most of the music in the film isn't his.
> 
> Am I wrong?



There's no Takemitsu music in this film as far as I know of.

I believe most of it if not all of the avant gard music present in the film belongs to johnny. As I can recall from the credits they used Brahms and Arvo Part for the rest of the score.

I've heard that johnny's score was disqualified because it represented only few minutes of score and the rest was classical music.

I couldn't connect with this movie and still don't know why, maybe it's a problem with the director, since I couldn't connect with punch drunk love and magnolia either. All of these films have been very well directed and have strong performances and I thought the music was suitable but I don't know what it is I just can't get in his universe.


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## Dr.Quest (Oct 24, 2008)

josejherring @ Fri Oct 24 said:


> Wasn't most of the more "avante garde" music written by Takemitsu? Greenwood was disqualified from the academy award nomination because most of the music in the film isn't his.
> 
> Am I wrong?



Yes, you are wrong. He was disqualified because most of the music wasn't specifically created for the film, it was already composed. He only wrote a small amount of new music for the film, less then necessary to get the award nomination.
J


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## Evan Gamble (Oct 24, 2008)

Two pieces of his were used that he composed before the film..

Popcorn superhet reciever(great concert piece), and a cue from the film "Bodysong"

the rest is either him or the 2 pieces from brahms and part.

and yes it is the best score in the past decade or so I believe and the best film almost ever.


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## José Herring (Oct 24, 2008)

Then Greenwood did an admirable job for sure. Very creative stuff.


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## John DeBorde (Oct 24, 2008)

I thought it was a mixed bag. The score was very effective at capturing my attention and building anticipation at the beginning, but I found it to often be quite distracting later in the film - not a good thing imo.

Kudos to PTA for such daring use of music tho. I'd like to see a lot more films go out on a limb like that.

john


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## JohnG (Oct 24, 2008)

speaking of this film -- anyone want to go bowling?


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## choc0thrax (Oct 24, 2008)

I remember in the theatre during the bowling scene I had a couple of french retards sitting behind me laughing excitedly because to them I guess it was like some sort of french comedy sketch or something.


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## cc64 (Oct 24, 2008)

midphase @ Fri Oct 24 said:


> In There Will Be Blood, I was really wanting to believe that this movie would elevate the art of scoring to a whole new level...but I was actually disappointed with the end result. While I am convinced that Johnny Greenwood is quite a visionary and creative composer, I am not convinced that he watched the movie more than once before he set out to write music that felt more "inspired" by the film than actually scored to it.



Read about this here.

http://theenvelope.latimes.com/columnis ... headlines#

Best,

CC


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## nikolas (Oct 24, 2008)

cc64 @ Fri Oct 24 said:


> midphase @ Fri Oct 24 said:
> 
> 
> > In There Will Be Blood, I was really wanting to believe that this movie would elevate the art of scoring to a whole new level...but I was actually disappointed with the end result. While I am convinced that Johnny Greenwood is quite a visionary and creative composer, I am not convinced that he watched the movie more than once before he set out to write music that felt more "inspired" by the film than actually scored to it.
> ...


If I remember correctly, from reading in here, AND from watching the film, the original music in the film is quite minimal actually and I do recall hearing Brahms violin concert 3rd movement, Arvo Part, Stravisnky (Symphnoy of the Psalm, I believe), and maybe one other piece I wasn't too sure about. 

So a soundtrack filled with music which was, indeed, not written for the film, seems rather unfit to be in the oscar race.

I found the use of strings ingenious in the film, actually, and it was elevating to hear something new at last, and used in such a unique way. (following that, I saw "The Dark Night", which felt dissapointing, in the use of string clusters... :-/)


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## dcoscina (Oct 24, 2008)

midphase @ Fri Oct 24 said:


> Ok, I just finally watched the film (yes, I'm slow).
> 
> I've had the soundtrack for a while, so I was very familiar with it...and just like everyone else I was very impressed with hearing the music...however....
> 
> In There Will Be Blood, I was really wanting to believe that this movie would elevate the art of scoring to a whole new level...but I was actually disappointed with the end result. While I am convinced that Johnny Greenwood is quite a visionary and creative composer, I am not convinced that he watched the movie more than once before he set out to write music that felt more "inspired" by the film than actually scored to it.



I think PT Anderson does like to use music like Kubrick and Altman did which is referred to as "needle dropping". then again, it does not sound like Greenwood's cues were mangled in a way that would indicate trimming. Perhaps Anderson edited to the music. Eisenstein did that with Prokofiev for Alexander Nevsky and Spielberg did so with Williams' ET score in 1982. 

I think Greenwood's score *did* elevate the art of scoring if only to regress to a style that is challenging listening rather than soothing simply guitar chords. Why Santaolalla gets lauded for his simple strums while Greenwood gets lambasted for his complex harmonies and astringent timbres is a mystery. Oh wait, no it's not. It's the wonderful world of double standards. when it comes to Santaolalla's barely audible "music" the rationale is that it works so smoothly with the film. That just means it's the most transparent aural wallpaper you can get these days. And it makes for a nice soothing listening experience during a cocktail party. 

Greenwood's score was done in this way because the director ASKED for it. If you listen to the music in PT Anderson's other films, compliments of Jon Brion, it's also mixed very up front. The noisy frenetic percussion in the opening scene of Punch Drunk Love almost drowns out the dialogue because the director wanted the audience to _feel_ disoriented and anxious like Adam Sandler's character. In the long opening montage of Magnolia, he overlays Brion's minimalist music with Aimee Mann's songs in a collision of sound that underlines the interwoven character stories happening all at once.

Do not think for a minute that Anderson is incompetent when it comes to applying music to his films. In fact, I was elated when that "cool music" from the trailers of There Will Be Blood turned out to be original music from the film. How many times does that happen any more? Barely ever.

Greenwood's score is my favorite from last year and distinguished itself as unique during a time where most composers reach for their cluster preset on their favorite sampler. He actually notated and orchestrated the score himself too. 

p.s. As a film, TWBB is more gutsy and daring than the Coen Bros. overrated No COuntry for Old Men which wore out its welcome after the first viewing for me. TWBB is a layered, textured piece that demands multiple viewings to "get" all of the subtext and subtleties in the performances. This is coming from a viewer who did not care for it the first time

NP- Future Markets (There Will be Blood)


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## PolarBear (Oct 24, 2008)

Dark Night or Dark Knight?


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## choc0thrax (Oct 24, 2008)

I found Greenwood's music was distracting in the film.


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## Niah (Oct 24, 2008)

"Leave gustavo alone!"


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## poseur (Oct 27, 2008)

nikolas @ Fri Oct 24 said:


> If I remember correctly, from reading in here, AND from watching the film, the original music in the film is quite minimal actually and I do recall hearing Brahms violin concert 3rd movement, Arvo Part, Stravisnky (Symphnoy of the Psalm, I believe), and maybe one other piece I wasn't too sure about.


yes, i also remember the arvo pärt
--- the most effective music in the score, i thought ---
and the brahms & stravinsky (¿i think?), as well:
i don't remember any takemitsu, however.

i thought the 1st 20 minutes of that film was amazing,
but, overall, did not care much for
the picture owing to
my perception of its abusiveness of the audience..... 
..... most specifically vis á vis the ramp
to the end of the story.....

i didn't feel that the score
generally served the film well, & was extremely (¿purposefully?)
distracting --- took me _too far_ "out of the picture";
neither did i find JG's sections of score to be in any way "avant-garde",
but more..... errrmm..... "après-garde", really.....
..... though it certainly did portend to be invigorating
at first blush,
for its marked difference-of-approach
from most of the current trends in scoring norms.

i must, though, qualify all of the above
by saying that
i am, indeed,
an abiding fan of radiohead & JG in general.

fwiw.
just more opinionising blabber, really.
doesn't matter.
what matters is what we *do*.

d


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## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2008)

I had more probs with the movie itself (script) than the score. I did like it, but not for the right reasons. I liked what it was "going for" not what it "was". Part of the reason is tone (writing), the script took a left turn at the end and was a real mess.

No Country: I liked that too, but mostly for the wrong reasons. I was expecting a MUCH darker film (my version of dark is much darker than most folks, apparently?). I was also expecting a stronger storyline. But they won me over, mostly, by breaking the rules. Killing the protagonist is a Hollywood no-no, I'm glad they made it work (sort of). Not clearly resolving the ending is another no-no. I'm glad they broke rules...and wouldn't you know it...Hollywood didn't burn down as a result. Instead, the Coen bros won an Oscar...because so many in Hollywood are sick and (F'ing) tired of congratulating themselves for doing the same 7 movies year-after-year...after year.

BTW -- As soon as No Country "SMASHED TO BLACK" I said to myself "I'll bet that's not the way the script was written". So, I got a copy of the script. Yep, the script ended differently. Still, I'm glad they made that choice. I get so tired of seeing the same ending to every film. Talk about predictable. The other interesting thing about the script is that there are no "scene headings", it's written almost like a play. I don't remember if there were any paragraphs...pretty sure the entire thing is single spaced sentences - Which ain't the norm...

Having said that. The story was flimsy in my opinion. That script would never have sold as a spec. and yet they won an Oscar w/it. Just goes to show that some guys have vision that can't possibly be portrayed on the page...not all of it. Then gain, it wasn't a perfect film for me. Then again, it beats seeing the same thing over and over.

Both filmmakers took risks. I fear that opportunity will become much harder before it gets easier. I fear the quality of films will get much worse before they get better.

I dunno...I imagine a sea of artist all struggling to make what "they" want us to make: writers, directors, composers, etc. When's the last time you did EXACTLY what you wanted to do? (both filmmaker(s) mentioned did that. Commendable)

I was pitching a TV-show about a month ago. The producer said something that struck me. "Just be sure this is something you're willing to spend 5 years of your life on should it go" Admittedly, I was getting sucked into the game, more than I wanted. I was maybe too enamored with the idea of big $$$. Fact is, I don't want to do ANY tv-show unless it's quality/original. Shit...I don't necessarily want to do TV.



> what matters is what we *do*.




Agreed...sometimes we gotta remind ourselves WHY we're even bothering to do this. Sure, money is great and all, but it'll eventually get spent on crap we probably don't need.


More blabber, is all...I don't recommend reading my posts. :D


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## Christian Marcussen (Oct 27, 2008)

Kid... How did the script ending differ?


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## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2008)

Christian...

There's maybe a little more to it, but: It doesn't SMASH TO BLACK. Instead, we see Tommy Lee's father riding a horse through the snowy barren landscape as Tommy recalls the story. His father lights a camp fire. Bit-by-bit the screen FADES TO BLACK until we can only make out the last flickering bits of flame. Then - GENTLY TO BLACK.

A little more to it than that but that's the gist. A far less startling ending.


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## Christian Marcussen (Oct 27, 2008)

Right, ok. Yeah, I liked the ending. But I recall quite a bit of people I know disliking it.


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## dcoscina (Oct 27, 2008)

kid-surf @ Mon Oct 27 said:


> There's maybe a little more to it, but: It doesn't SMASH TO BLACK. Instead, we see Tommy Lee's father riding a horse through the snowy barren landscape as Tommy recalls the story. His father lights a camp fire. Bit-by-bit the screen FADES TO BLACK until we can only make out the last flickering bits of flame. Then - GENTLY TO BLACK.
> 
> A little more to it than that but that's the gist. A far less startling ending.



As a writer, what do you think of PT Anderson? I personally like his writing and also his directing style.


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## Evan Gamble (Oct 27, 2008)

dcoscina @ Mon Oct 27 said:


> kid-surf @ Mon Oct 27 said:
> 
> 
> > There's maybe a little more to it, but: It doesn't SMASH TO BLACK. Instead, we see Tommy Lee's father riding a horse through the snowy barren landscape as Tommy recalls the story. His father lights a camp fire. Bit-by-bit the screen FADES TO BLACK until we can only make out the last flickering bits of flame. Then - GENTLY TO BLACK.
> ...



Yeah me too.

Him and Alfonso Cuaron are doing some of the best work in film today.


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## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2008)

Yeah, it's kind of a divisive ending. Love hate thing, perhaps. Part of me wonders if the Coen bros shot the original ending. And/or if they "had" to have snow - an epic whiteout shot - or why bother. Maybe there was no snow at the time of filming? Could be that there are reasons other than artistic which helped them decide to SMASH.

Maybe I should just ask a guy I know who produced on it. In fact, my wife was with him when he bought the book...If I recall?


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## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2008)

dcoscina @ Mon Oct 27 said:


> kid-surf @ Mon Oct 27 said:
> 
> 
> > There's maybe a little more to it, but: It doesn't SMASH TO BLACK. Instead, we see Tommy Lee's father riding a horse through the snowy barren landscape as Tommy recalls the story. His father lights a camp fire. Bit-by-bit the screen FADES TO BLACK until we can only make out the last flickering bits of flame. Then - GENTLY TO BLACK.
> ...



I like him. He's got a POV that is his own. He's honest in his work...that's the most one could ask of an artist. I respect the guy tremendously.


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## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2008)

Alfonso Cuaron -- yep. Great work!


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## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2008)

No, I've not read it. I'll grab a copy and give it a spin...


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## JohnG (Oct 27, 2008)

kid-surf @ 27th October 2008 said:


> we see Tommy Lee's father riding a horse through the snowy barren landscape as Tommy recalls the story. His father lights a camp fire. Bit-by-bit the screen FADES TO BLACK until we can only make out the last flickering bits of flame. Then - GENTLY TO BLACK.



This scene, although the screenplay has played it a little differently from the novel, is the culmination of the novel, as the metaphor of the generation ahead of us guiding us with only a flickering, inadequate fire / piece of knowledge or insight offering some faint and imperfect guidance in a bleak, barren, hostile and indifferent landscape; knowing that it's inadequate but the best we can do, is kind of consistent with how I take McCarthy's novels. 

There are elements of this idea in "The Road," a novel that I take to be one long metaphor.

He doesn't exactly deny hope, but certainly seems to view existence as fairly inexplicable, skeptical of sentimentality and meaning in the sense that meaning is usually interpreted, and yet he invests this passing of the torch -- without a lot of fuss and blather -- from generation to generation as kind of the best we can do.

In the novel, the protagonist is really the sheriff, as I read it, rather than the Brolin character, so this relationship with his own father and the inexplicability of each generation for what comes in the succeeding one, makes more of an impact on the reader.


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