# Composing Full-Time



## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 6, 2008)

For those of us who compose full-time for a living, it's easy to forget how very fortunate we are. I, for one, am so happy to do what I do. I also feel so privileged to live in an era where I have access to such incredible technology! It's not always a secure income (feast or famine), but when the work is coming in, there's nothing like the rush of making music, something that is fun first and foremost, and earning a good living from it. o/~ o=< o-[][]-o 

Since I'm not religious, I will simply thank my lucky stars. :wink:


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 6, 2008)

Agreed. But it can also be a bitch. It's not all happy, happy all the time. Atleast not for me 

But yeah, I love my job - but I think some people reckon its a walk in the park (and to some very talented people it might be). But to me it can be quite headache inducing and stressful.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Sep 6, 2008)

Certainly not a walk in the park.
Even for guys at the top (Goldsmith too)
Eventually you are not the flavor of the day anymore...

I don't recommend this job for people with low self-esteem or with serious depressive nature.
Better do it as a hobby in that case (and it is then therapeutic)

...but when cool jobs are dropped on your lap or you're on stage and the band is slammin' it sure is fun! =o 

Glad to hear you're on a roll Ned! o-[][]-o


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## madbulk (Sep 6, 2008)

Nothing wrong with counting your blessings once in a great while. Right on Ned.


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## Stephen Baysted (Sep 6, 2008)

madbulk @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> Nothing wrong with counting your blessings once in a great while. Right on Ned.



Amen to that.


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## bryla (Sep 6, 2008)

Wish it was me...


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## wonshu (Sep 6, 2008)

I think that every day.

Berlin being a very cheap city and still one of the most vibrant places in the world I feel that I'm very blessed with getting away with relatively little work.

Although it could be more at times but then I just think of how great it is to just sit and contemplate...

Thanks for bringing it to everyones attention again!

Best
Hans


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## kid-surf (Sep 6, 2008)

madbulk @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> Nothing wrong with counting your blessings once in a great while. Right on Ned.




Ditto that...

There are a sea of people doing jobs they absolutely despise (yes, even more than us :D) who WISH they had a job where they could be creative... even if that meant less money (I know a guy who fits that description). Imagine being stressed out about NOT creating ANYTHING. That's gotta be far worse. Sounds like hell to me.

On the best days composers are allowed to express something pure and real. 

Great thread Ned! 8) 

A little perspective is in order from time to time...


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 6, 2008)

Yeah, I'm on a roll, but... FWIW, I had a dry spell earlier this year that lasted (drum roll please) 5.5 months! Luckily, I had some royalty cheques and savings. But you know, it pays off to hang in there, 'cause eventually the wheel does turn, bad breaks become good. The hard part, IMO, is being able to stay afloat long enough to catch the next floater. ~o)


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 6, 2008)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> Yeah, I'm on a roll, but... FWIW, I had a dry spell earlier this year that lasted (drum roll please) 5.5 months! Luckily, I had some royalty cheques and savings. But you know, it pays off to hang in there, 'cause eventually the wheel does turn, bad breaks become good. The hard part, IMO, is being able to stay afloat long enough to catch the next floater. ~o)



Yeah me to - and that is one of the tough parts of the job. And since I do game-music I did not have a single royalty check :shock: 

And My next pay check is likely not due til next month... but it's a great and fun gig. And that is when the job gets really fun... 

=o


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## dkristian (Sep 7, 2008)

I sometimes feel like I'm in the wrong business.

I've been working on film projects an average of 12 hours a day, seven days a week these past few months, which should be a good thing, but I've come to realize I do not like writing orchestral music, especially to "imitate" temp tracks, and that I do not really enjoy working on films (too many cooks, revisions, and too many delays, followed by insane deadlines). I much prefer composing for web and tv series, animation, and short-term projects. I know TV deadlines can also be grueling, but you have more freedom to be original (while adhering to the tone of a project) since there is less time for what one of my colleagues and I like to call "Revisionitis".

Speaking of colleagues, if budget allows, I would rather collaborate on a score than be the sole composer. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. 

I don't want to see my name on a marquee, I don't want to be famous, I just want to keep making a living doing what I do best, but I want to be allowed to do my best, not be restrained by conservative trends (Ah, to dream the impossible dream...)

I just read an interview with Mel Wesson, who pretty much has my ideal job; Ambient Music Designer.

http://filmsounddaily.blogspot.com/2008/08/dark-knight-pt4.html (http://filmsounddaily.blogspot.com/2008 ... t-pt4.html)

That said and read, I imagine that unless I was lucky enough to get gigs on blockbuster films, the pickings would be slim. 
I doubt many independent productions have a budget for synthesists.


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## Ranietz (Sep 7, 2008)

kid-surf @ Sun 07 Sep said:


> There are a sea of people doing jobs they absolutely despise (yes, even more than us :D) who WISH they had a job where they could be creative... even if that meant less money (I know a guy who fits that description). Imagine being stressed out about NOT creating ANYTHING. That's gotta be far worse. Sounds like hell to me.



You just described my life. And yeah, it's hell.

-Ranietz-


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 7, 2008)

Let alone the fact that so many directors want what they might call a 'human' score, meaning almost 100% acoustic-sounding. Sometimes it's the broadcaster(s) who want faux-symphonic scores, no electronics please. I guess after the techno days of the 90s, this is just the swing of the taste pendulum; but for synths lovers like many of us, times are a bit tough.


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## Stephen Rees (Sep 7, 2008)

dkristian @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> I don't want to see my name on a marquee, I don't want to be famous, I just want to keep making a living doing what I do best, but I want to be allowed to do my best, not be restrained by conservative trends (Ah, to dream the impossible dream...)



That sums it up for me. Very well put


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## madbulk (Sep 7, 2008)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> ... but for synths lovers like many of us, times are a bit tough.



Ain't it the truth. Can't believe Omnisphere is gonna be darn near useless. :wink: 
Personally, I'm waiting for reverb to come off the dirty word list too.


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## José Herring (Sep 7, 2008)

dkristian @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> I sometimes feel like I'm in the wrong business.
> 
> I've been working on film projects an average of 12 hours a day, seven days a week these past few months, which should be a good thing, but I've come to realize I do not like writing orchestral music, especially to "imitate" temp tracks, and that I do not really enjoy working on films (too many cooks, revisions, and too many delays, followed by insane deadlines). I much prefer composing for web and tv series, animation, and short-term projects. I know TV deadlines can also be grueling, but you have more freedom to be original (while adhering to the tone of a project) since there is less time for what one of my colleagues and I like to call "Revisionitis".
> 
> ...



Film is in a wierd place right now. And after working in films for the last 15 years, I'm starting to contemplate this too. TV in the last 2 years has gotten way more exciting than the film industry, especially in the mid to low budget range.

I don't know what happen to film. Why low budget films got so bad. In the old days you would sacrifice a little money for the chance to work on a film that had heart and that everybody really cared about. Now they're all just trying to be commercial. Commercial needs money so low budget commercial films just don't work.

I hate to blame it on a generational thing, but a lot of the younger film makers (and by that I mean under 40) seem to have lost a lot of the heart and the soul that goes into indie film making. Some low budget horror films have made big money so now everybody is "chasing the dream" of $$$ and making a lot of junk.

Lately I've been watching a lot of tv and it seems like there's more interesting and innovative stuff happening on the small screen.

But, I'm perhaps not the best judge. I even think that films like Pirates C. III and Spiderman in spite of making half a billion dollars were some of the biggest pieces of crap I'd ever laid eyes on from an artistic stand point. Maybe I'm just not money oriented enough to last much longer in this business either. But, I just want to get back to the day where I really cared about the work I was doing rather than just trying to be "professional" and do a good job in spite of the fact that my heart just isn't into it.

Jose


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 7, 2008)

josejherring @ 7/9/2008 said:


> I hate to blame it on a generational thing, but a lot of the younger film makers (and by that I mean under 40) seem to have lost a lot of the heart and the soul that goes into indie film making.



It's not just the young directors, Jose. :(


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## JacquesMathias (Sep 7, 2008)

Nice thread Ned.

I got more jobs from small/medium record labels, here in Brasil. These are my paid jobs, where i can produce and arrange. Fortunately, sometimes i can record with real strings and brass. What i like when i am the producer of an album is that i must find something suitable to the artist, it isn't only about dealing with notes, chords and so on, the concept needs make sense. Although, sometimes, i got a CD where the singer doesn't know anything about music, and it can be very stressful. Things like, that beat should have a more "blue" fell. These abstract considerations drive me crazy...particularly when "the" singer is the money guy.

I know that you guys dealing with diretors only, are used to this kind of thing, way more than me... :mrgreen: 

Slowly, the only "composing" jobs are coming to me. I got a bit disappointed because it is always "copy-that-guy". "Copy-that-style". From this point of view, i have more creativity freedom when dealing with albums. At first, i thought i could be a lot more creative and happy as a composer, due to the fact i could deal of a myriad of musical styles, but in the end i feel tied. I can't let me own ideas come up, i must follow a recipe, that has been created and established by someone else. Although, i don't think i am mature enough as a musician to be able to create something "new", however i think that the medium budget movies should have the duty of presenting something with a new aesthetic, less tied to the Big-Hollywood trends, thus letting us composers to find a suitable musical idea, that blends with the actors, scripts and so on. Sorry, i am getting a little off-topic here.

Anyway, like you Ned, i feel blessed for making music for a living, either composing, arranging or producing. 

Jacques


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## dkristian (Sep 7, 2008)

josejherring @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> Lately I've been watching a lot of tv and it seems like there's more interesting and innovative stuff happening on the small screen.



Indeed. 

Shows like Battlestar Galactica, Deadwood, The Wire (no score), The Shield, Dexter, and HBO classics such as Oz and 6 Feet Under are all examples of the small screen eclipsing the big screen. I also think potential DVD sales are pushing networks to allow edgier content (i.e. CSI's surprising amount of gore fx.) The home video market isn't just about buying movies anymore.



> I just want to get back to the day where I really cared about the work I was doing rather than just trying to be "professional" and do a good job in spite of the fact that my heart just isn't into it.



Well said. o-[][]-o


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## dkristian (Sep 7, 2008)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> Let alone the fact that so many directors want what they might call a 'human' score, meaning almost 100% acoustic-sounding. Sometimes it's the broadcaster(s) who want faux-symphonic scores, no electronics please. I guess after the techno days of the 90s, this is just the swing of the taste pendulum; but for synths lovers like many of us, times are a bit tough.



The Techno days of the 90s seem to have made them forget about the great (IMHO) Electronic scores of the 70s and 80s. Wendy Carlos' A Clockwork Orange, The Shining, and Tron. Tangerine Dream's Sorcerer, Thief and Near Dark, plus just about everything John Carpenter's ever composed for his own films.

The degree of sophistication of new synths (i.e. physically modelled instruments) has made it possible to be almost as expressive as acoustic musicians so it's a shame to have to work with what are essentially Polaroids of acoustic instruments.


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## sevaels (Sep 7, 2008)

How did you guys originally go full time? Gradually or in one big leap?

:D


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 7, 2008)

2 parts: a) 2 yrs part-time to get a few clients; b) full-time after those 2 yrs.

FWIW, the first 3 years of full-time were deadly. Lots of borrowing $$, doubts, friends kindly suggesting adding a 'steady' job. The key, IMHO, is perseverance, not giving in to the temptation of part-time non-composition work. In the early days, it helps if you don't have big commitments like children, a mortgage, big car payments, etc.


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## José Herring (Sep 7, 2008)

Like Ned said low monthly over head is the key. Until you've got some big credits with a decent amount of upfront or royalty money keeping your overhead low is the key. Also, no credit card purchases. Those guys expect payment every month and the old "I don't get paid every month" excuse doesn't work.

Keep it small then expand sensibly. Cause you have to be able to survive the lean times until the big time.

Jose


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## dkristian (Sep 7, 2008)

sevaels @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> How did you guys originally go full time? Gradually or in one big leap?
> 
> :D



I started off as a cable access video and filmmaker back in 1983, I got into music so I wouldn't have to use records to score my films, which were mostly animation, sci-fi, and horror amateur efforts.

I eventually dropped the visual side of things, and put out a few CDs and played live sets for a while, but that was never really satisfying.

Some people in my circle of friends were up-and-coming filmmakers, which led to early professional scoring gigs in the late 90s, but it wasn't until 2004 that I finally was able to make a living from full-time soundtrack work. I should add that if it hadn't been for time well spend hanging out at film festivals, I would never have met some of the clients which helped me get from part-time to full-time.

I was also lucky to have a back catalogue of melodic, textural, beatless music I was able to adapt to some of the films I got to score while I still had a day job, but that back catalogue has run dry, and I doubt I could ever score a film if I had a 9 to 5, since you have to be on call pretty much 24/7.


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## dcoscina (Sep 7, 2008)

I would love to score HEROES. I agree with Jose that there is, on average, far better writing and directing happening in television than film these days. The only really competent directors under 40 are PT Anderson and Zack Snyder whose Watchmen looks amazing. David Fincher also ought to be sainted for resurrecting David Shire to score Zodiac a couple years back. In fact, his music sensibilities have brought us some amazing scores by Elliot Goldenthal (Alien3), Howard Shore (Seven), and coming up Alexandre Desplat (The Curious Case of Benjamin Button).


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## choc0thrax (Sep 7, 2008)

dcoscina @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> I would love to score HEROES. I agree with Jose that there is, on average, far better writing and directing happening in television than film these days. The only really competent directors under 40 are PT Anderson and Zack Snyder whose Watchmen looks amazing. David Fincher also ought to be sainted for resurrecting David Shire to score Zodiac a couple years back. In fact, his music sensibilities have brought us some amazing scores by Elliot Goldenthal (Alien3), Howard Shore (Seven), and coming up Alexandre Desplat (The Curious Case of Benjamin Button).



Yeah Zack Snyder's 300 was really great.... 8)


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## nomogo (Sep 7, 2008)

Theres some chap named Christopher Noland who isn't half bad =o


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 7, 2008)

ETM Dude @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> Theres some chap named Christopher Noland who isn't half bad =o



Nah - he's a hack trying to cash in on Christoper Nolan's good name!


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## kid-surf (Sep 7, 2008)

Christian Marcussen @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> ETM Dude @ Sun Sep 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Theres some chap named Christopher Noland who isn't half bad =o
> ...




:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## kid-surf (Sep 8, 2008)

Ditto about TV being more creative...

It's more creative for screenwriters too, not just directors and composers. After all, the writer is king in TV not the director (director is king in film as we all know).

East Bound and Down -- yeah, it's good? I'm gonna have to get hold of that pilot.



> ...having your own HBO show has to be the best damn thing ever.



Agreed. Which is why they are my target for TV ideas. They seem to let you go all the way with it. It's getting to the point that film isn't as attractive as TV. I mean, the creator/show runner on a hit TV show can make millions a year, tens of millions. Forget about the money, the creative fulfillment from writing/running a show when you actually dig the hell out of it yourself, that's got to be a creative elysium. And one that rarely exists in film today. 

Not to say I don't like film... 

The biggest difference is that TV is "character driven" (talking all the great HBO type shows, not network TV). Film is "concept driven". Swear to god, as a writer you're asked to "gimme the one liner". The play or pass is often based on one sentence. I can't think of any film "I've" liked that could be pitched in one sentence. Likely the HBO type scheduling would be a run on sentence... So yeah, TV is far more open to fresh ideas. Definitely!

Ditto on David Fincher (my fave director). I sort of get a kick out of him directing The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. I am convinced he's doing it, in part, to prove that he can direct something that is not DARK. I sincerely hope the film does well so he gains the respect he deserves (i.e. Oscar). The dude is one of the best directors in town. I "get" his taste in projects.



> The only really competent directors under 40 are...



It's not just directors... MANY in the Hollywood community under 40 are looking for the smash-and-grab payday. So it's no surprise that many directors under 40 are the same way. Tell you what, those type of directors won't last. No substance, no point of view (but I've said that all before). What I find is that the older guys (around 50) are the ones who seem to remember most what "good" looks like. The young development kids (mid 20s) are the ones who seem to (generally) have the questionable taste. No offense.

All these Hollywood kids want to find the next ______ which was an anomaly and can't be reproduced. Besides, what do they really care if the film is good or not so long as it's a giant hit so they can call their parents back in_____...? The young Hollywood development kids just want to see their names in the Trades and such. The older crew has already had GIANT hits. Thus, I find them to be more open to quality over splash-and-dash. That's what I've found... others may see it differently.



Please excuse the generalities...


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## choc0thrax (Sep 8, 2008)

kid-surf @ Mon Sep 08 said:


> Ditto about TV being more creative...
> 
> It's more creative for screenwriters too, not just directors and composers. After all, the writer is king in TV not the director (director is king in film as we all know).
> 
> ...



East Bound and Down is good, but depending on your sense of humour you may or may not like it. It's about a washed up racist ex-baseball player. 

You know what's better than the one liner is "give me trailer moments".


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## kid-surf (Sep 11, 2008)

"give me trailer moments" 

Are you sure you're not already a professional screenwriter? Agreed, that's got to be the 'best' request. Of course, it makes perfect sense to write a film based on trailer ideas. After all, who needs a story? Would be almost funny if it weren't true... When someone actually says that, it takes a moment to sink in that, that is, in fact, what you heard them say.

This kinda' feeling ----> ~o)


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## Waywyn (Sep 11, 2008)

I am also thankful. Being mostly a game composer I can create music for one of my biggest hobbies ...

Of course sometimes there are bitchy milestoneplans, some companies, as Jaques mentioned, just want a copy of Zimmer etc. ... and germany isn't the best paying country for computer games music, but all in all I am happy to make my living from it.

Another good point, as said before, is to be really on it all the time. If you start loosing faith in yourself or you are not eager and self esteeed, there is no reason to stay in that job.

As for the "how did you start" question: I was a guitar teacher when I came back from LA, so I was teaching and from the earned money I slowly started to build up my studio. Then as the first jobs came in, I reduced the teaching until I totally gave it up one day.


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## choc0thrax (Sep 11, 2008)

kid-surf @ Thu Sep 11 said:


> "give me trailer moments"
> 
> Are you sure you're not already a professional screenwriter? Agreed, that's got to be the 'best' request. Of course, it makes perfect sense to write a film based on trailer ideas. After all, who needs a story? Would be almost funny if it weren't true... When someone actually says that, it takes a moment to sink in that, that is, in fact, what you heard them say.
> 
> This kinda' feeling ----> ~o)



If I were a professional screenwriter I think my grammar would be somewhat better than that of a kindergartner. o-[][]-o


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## Ed (Sep 11, 2008)

kid-surf @ Thu Sep 11 said:


> "give me trailer moments"



"It needs more naked hot chicks"


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## choc0thrax (Sep 11, 2008)

Ed @ Thu Sep 11 said:


> kid-surf @ Thu Sep 11 said:
> 
> 
> > "give me trailer moments"
> ...



Generally they trim that down to "needs boobs".


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## kid-surf (Sep 11, 2008)

choc0thrax @ Thu Sep 11 said:


> kid-surf @ Thu Sep 11 said:
> 
> 
> > "give me trailer moments"
> ...



I'm just under 1st grade level, myself... o-[][]-o


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## kid-surf (Sep 11, 2008)

choc0thrax @ Thu Sep 11 said:


> Ed @ Thu Sep 11 said:
> 
> 
> > kid-surf @ Thu Sep 11 said:
> ...




Actually, now a days it's just "grunt..."


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## Ed (Sep 11, 2008)

kid-surf @ Thu Sep 11 said:


> choc0thrax @ Thu Sep 11 said:
> 
> 
> > Ed @ Thu Sep 11 said:
> ...



*You:* "So what do you think?"

*grunt* 

*grunt*

*Producer*: "titties...."

*grunt*

*You:* "Sorry?"

*grunt* 

*grunt*

*Producer*: "ass...."

*grunt*

*Producer*: "pussy...."

*grunt* 

*grunt*


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## Ed (Sep 11, 2008)

btw choco why you are never on AOL anymore?


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## choc0thrax (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm on AOL once in a while. I actually blocked you though or something. 8) Everytime I'd come on AIM you'd go offline within seconds so I assumed you were blocking me or something. o/~


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## Ed (Sep 11, 2008)

choc0thrax @ Thu Sep 11 said:


> I'm on AOL once in a while. I actually blocked you though or something. 8) Everytime I'd come on AIM you'd go offline within seconds so I assumed you were blocking me or something. o/~


I didnt! Dont know what happened there. I miss choco chats.


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## choc0thrax (Sep 11, 2008)

Rrrright, well I'll unblock you later. 8)


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## choc0thrax (Sep 12, 2008)

Well it seems that not only did I block you but I deleted you off my list. o-[][]-o Don't know how to get you back on there.


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## Ed (Sep 12, 2008)

choc0thrax @ Fri Sep 12 said:


> Well it seems that not only did I block you but I deleted you off my list. o-[][]-o Don't know how to get you back on there.



Wow you must have really been pissed. Uuuuh. I think its [email protected] or something,


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## choc0thrax (Sep 12, 2008)

Ed @ Fri Sep 12 said:


> choc0thrax @ Fri Sep 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Well it seems that not only did I block you but I deleted you off my list. o-[][]-o Don't know how to get you back on there.
> ...



Nah, once I block someone I figure I might as well remove them from the list. It makes the list look nicer. 8)


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## kid-surf (Sep 12, 2008)

Ed @ Thu Sep 11 said:


> kid-surf @ Thu Sep 11 said:
> 
> 
> > choc0thrax @ Thu Sep 11 said:
> ...



*You:* "So what do you think?"

*grunt* 

*grunt*

*Producer*: "titties...."

*grunt*

*You:* "Sorry?"

*grunt* 

*grunt*

*Producer*: "ass..ò…è   ……è   …‘…è   …’…è   …“…è   …”…è   …•…è   …–…è   …—…è   …˜…è   …™…è   …š…è   …›…è   …œ…è   ……è   …ž…è   …Ÿ…è


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