# MIR 3D Fan Club



## Zanshin (Mar 21, 2022)

I don't think we have a general thread for this yet? And I didn't want to hijack another....



Marcus Millfield said:


> I own almost all Synchron libraries, a lot of Synchron-ized and a few VI series and have to say that, although Synchron libraries are wonderful, I'm letting them go in favor of the Synchron-ized and VI libraries. Combining them with MIR gives me a lot more control over placement. As I tend to write more classical and intimate, this works better for me in the end. Something to consider.
> 
> That said, you won't regret using the Synchron libraries of that's your sound!



Dang.

I actually had some thoughts about going that route, especially with MIR 3D coming. Syz Dim Brass and Syz WW are my fav winds, but I don't have a fav string library, and especially one I can use in MIR. Like you I have Syz Dim Strings (just vol 1), but it doesn't rock my world like it does for you. I've done some experiments with TSS in MIR, but I'm yet not convinced. Syz Chamber Strings ... interested but afraid to buy since there was a lot of feedback that it wasn't as good as the VI version, but is that true??? Syz Appassionata's section sizes are too big for general purpose for me... I don't want to to buy any more VI libraries because I prefer the Synchron Player by a lot ...


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## FireGS (Mar 21, 2022)

...™


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## Casiquire (Mar 21, 2022)

I've been unable to get much clarification about the problems with Syz Chamber too. It sounds like you're still missing a workhorse general purpose string library? And do you already have MIRPro so you can try out Dimension in different rooms? 

Thing is the old dry VSL libraries don't really hold up anymore. Maybe their Synchronized versions are improved, but that's my opinion. They are sampled so thoroughly that anyone still using them probably doesn't need to buy much else, but for a brand new workhorse, there are better options. If you already have some Syz libraries then SSP is an obvious choice. Otherwise CSS or Berlin or most newer libraries from a similar space I think have advantages.

On the subject of MIR3D...I don't really do anything with surround, so it would have to have other compelling features. More flexible custom multi-mic setups, for example. As it is now, I can't for the life of me figure out a good way of simulating widely-spaced outriggers, for example. But I worry that they're aware of this, and it'll come with some really useful features I'm going to be forced to buy lol


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 21, 2022)

Synchron-ized means that the samples of the "old VI libraries" were (partly) reorganized and then "processed" with MIR. The different settings were stored in different presets and are thus ready for the user. These presets do not please all users, because they partly did not recognize their old samples, which sounded very natural. 

Since about half a year there is a setting in the synchron player under the presets called "default" or "unprocessed". If you choose this preset the samples are available again in the synchron player as we know them from the VI series. So you have both possibilities: To use the samples "processed" or to use them "unprocessed" like before. I think that you can also use them unprocessed with your own MIR settings. Anyway, with this unprocessed preset you have all the possibilities - also all the advantages of the synchronous player.

All the best
Beat


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## Zanshin (Mar 21, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I've been unable to get much clarification about the problems with Syz Chamber too. It sounds like you're still missing a workhorse general purpose string library? And do you already have MIRPro so you can try out Dimension in different rooms?


Above I am strictly talking about string libraries that would be good to use in MIR. I have Syz Dim Strings I, but I don't love it. So yeah thinking about Syz Chamber Strings... I have MIR Pro 24 and Roompacks 2,5, and 6.



Casiquire said:


> Thing is the old dry VSL libraries don't really hold up anymore. Maybe their Synchronized versions are improved, but that's my opinion. They are sampled so thoroughly that anyone still using them probably doesn't need to buy much else, but for a brand new workhorse, there are better options. If you already have some Syz libraries then SSP is an obvious choice. Otherwise CSS or Berlin or most newer libraries from a similar space I think have advantages.


For string libraries I have a ton: SS1, SSP, SES, BS, BSS, TSS, etc etc etc. lol


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## Casiquire (Mar 21, 2022)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> Synchron-ized means that the samples of the "old VI libraries" were (partly) reorganized and then "processed" with MIR. The different settings were stored in different presets and are thus ready for the user. These presets do not please all users, because they partly did not recognize their old samples, which sounded very natural.
> 
> Since about half a year there is a setting in the synchron player under the presets called "default" or "unprocessed". If you choose this preset the samples are available again in the synchron player as we know them from the VI series. So you have both possibilities: To use the samples "processed" or to use them "unprocessed" like before. I think that you can also use them unprocessed with your own MIR settings. Anyway, with this unprocessed preset you have all the possibilities - also all the advantages of the synchronous player.
> 
> ...


Thank you for chiming in! To be clear, i thought that Synchronized libraries get other upgrades and edits too, like a full remaster and re-edit and rebalancing to fit the rest of the series. I'm assuming Chamber has these edits baked in as well, right? Or is all the sample data and scripting actually identical to the original version, with the only difference being positioning in MIR? Thanks again.



Zanshin said:


> Above I am strictly talking about string libraries that would be good to use in MIR. I have Syz Dim Strings I, but I don't love it. So yeah thinking about Syz Chamber Strings... I have MIR Pro 24 and Roompacks 2,5, and 6.
> 
> 
> For string libraries I have a ton: SS1, SSP, SES, BS, BSS, TSS, etc etc etc. lol


Ok that makes more sense. Like we have had whole conversations about BSS before lol. Anyway Roompack 2 is absolute gold imo, i can even use its dry rooms as just a positioner that colors and glues the sound. So useful.

In that case, I'm curious to learn more about Chamber too, because i loved its sound but then was disappointed by some reactions.


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 21, 2022)

Here is a small commercial for Chamberstrings.
It is a compact library. Nevertheless, it has all the articulations needed to make music. Anyway, I've never really missed anything... even trills starting from the top (baroque). The legati sound beautiful. You can even hear the fingers "banging" on the fretboard. At that time the legato technique was still new. In the silent stage, a lot of effort was made to capture these transitions particularly well. It's also great that the same variety of articulations are all present, from the first violin to the double bass. If you own the Solo Strings library and combine it with the Chamberstrings, you get a string sound that is still hard to beat today - especially considering the price.
In the Synchron Player, you also benefit from a second violin, which did not exist originally. However, that didn't bother me over all the years.

I admit that today I prefer the Elite Strings to the Chamberstrings. They sound even more natural - especially when the "Agile samples" are in use. However, I often double the Elite Strings with the Chamber Strings by adding about 60%. Believe it or not, the chamber strings compensate for the small sample errors of the Elite strings so perfectly that an almost perfect string section is created.
In summary, the Chamberstrings are still worth every penny.

Chamberstrings doubled with the solo strings + solo violine (unprocessed)
Chamberstrings doubled with the solo strings + solo violine (unprocessed)

Combining String Libraries
 (all Strings (MIR-) unprocessed

Have fun
Beat


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## Marcus Millfield (Mar 21, 2022)

The pull for me to go Synchon-ized/VI + MIR versus the Synchron libraries is twofold:

1. I can place the instrument how I want them
2. I like a drier sound, especially in high strings and low brass

I like to have individual players for ultimate compositional control, so mainly use the Dimension libraries with added solo instruments from the VI series. The latter help flesh out some sections and are on solo duty. Dim brass for instance has terrific low brass patches, but I miss a good bass trombone that isn't recorded as part of a section, so this is filled with VI bass trombone and contrabass trombone. Tuba's the same, as the sound of the VI bass tuba lends more to a vertical writing style, while the Wagner section more horizontal lines.

For more romantic style, I have Appassionata strings in my template. I really like the sound of these and are the only sectional library in my template, apart from the Dim sectional patches which I use from time to time.

Same goes for strings. For WW I'm going SyZ WW. I dabbled with getting VI, but the price of SyZ is pretty good. Same goes for the historic WW.

Weakest is percussion in my setup. I have Sy PERC 1 and some from PERC 2 and it's just okay for me. Lot's of times I'm a bit clumsy with percussion and don't know what to do with them.

I own all Synchron libs except for SSPro and although they sound excellent, they don't inspire like the setup I described above. Call me crazy or whatever, but I'm very charmed by the older stuff recorded on the silent stage.


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## FireGS (Mar 21, 2022)

Sooooo about MIR3D.. >.>


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## muziksculp (Mar 21, 2022)

I hate waiting rooms. 

Just give me a call when it's released.


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## FireGS (Mar 21, 2022)

....






That's not funny, @Dietz :(


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 21, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Thank you for chiming in! To be clear, i thought that Synchronized libraries get other upgrades and edits too, like a full remaster and re-edit and rebalancing to fit the rest of the series. I'm assuming Chamber has these edits baked in as well, right? Or is all the sample data and scripting actually identical to the original version, with the only difference being positioning in MIR? Thanks again.


I will produce a small video about it, which will show everything.
Patience and see you in a few hours.
Beat


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## DJiLAND (Mar 21, 2022)

It would be great if MIR 3D could be used to provide additional surround channels to the Synchron Library.


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## matthieuL (Mar 22, 2022)

Could you explain what is MIR3D ? Or link pages/posts explaining it ?
I only heard the name but never saw and understood what it is and how it improves MIR.


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## Bruhelius (Mar 22, 2022)

Here is a link… pretty sure it was 3D:









Mir - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





EDIT: warning! Dad joke alert!


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## Dietz (Mar 22, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> It would be great if MIR 3D could be used to provide additional surround channels to the Synchron Library.


MIR 3D will offer Higher Order Ambisonics processing ("HOA" - actually 3rd order, in our case), but it will still (have to) rely on Ambisonics for many reasons. This means it's still a coincident microphone setup. Synchron Library OTOH uses spaced mics for the room, with run-time differences between the individual capsules.


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## Marcus Millfield (Mar 22, 2022)

Anyone else have no clue what he's talking about and needs to Google all terminology? 😂


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## Dietz (Mar 22, 2022)

matthieuL said:


> Could you explain what is MIR3D ? Or link pages/posts explaining it ?
> I only heard the name but never saw and understood what it is and how it improves MIR.


MIR 3D is the successor to MIR Pro, VSL's spatialisation and reverberation tool. It improves the spatial envelope by introducing Higher Order Ambisonics instead of "just" 1st Order. It will also allow full 3D audio decoding for ATMOS, Auro 3D and many other formats. In addition, MIR 3D will introduce a new preset handling system that should make daily work with the program much easier. ... and of course the so called "Venue Maps" are now also displayed in 3D, too 



The bad news is that its release has been _severely_ delayed for a number of reasons, COVID-19 being one, VSL's move to iLok-based copy protection being another. And before you ask - no, I don't dare to talk about expected release dates yet ... _*sigh*_


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## DJiLAND (Mar 22, 2022)

Dietz said:


> MIR 3D is the successor to MIR Pro, VSL's spatialisation and reverberation tool. It improves the spatial envelope by introducing Higher Order Ambisonics instead of "just" 1 Order. It will also allow full 3D audio decoding for ATMOS, Auro 3D and many other formats. In addition, MIR 3D will introduce a new preset handling system that should make daily work with the program much easier. ... and of course the so called "Venue Maps" are now also displayed in 3D, too
> 
> 
> 
> The bad news is that its release has been _severely_ delayed for a number of reasons, COVID-19 being one, VSL's move to iLok-based copy protection being another. And before you ask - no, I don't dare to talk about expected release dates yet ... _*sigh*_



Wow! First Look! Interesting. Now do we need to know the player's height as well?


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## DJiLAND (Mar 22, 2022)

Dietz said:


> MIR 3D will offer Higher Order Ambisonics processing ("HOA" - actually 3rd order, in our case), but it will still (have to) rely on Ambisonics for many reasons. This means it's still a coincident microphone setup. Synchron Library OTOH uses spaced mics for the room, with run-time differences between the individual capsules.


Dietz, then how about, for example, in 5.0.4 of the Synchron Library, how to send a Close mic to the MIR via Send, then mute the MIR's LRC and some Surround, then take only the MIR's additional channels? 
Extend the channel beyond 7.0.4 with this method for example.
I could try this myself, but right now I'm locked up at home with Covid19.
It may be a silly idea, but I'm curious what you think.


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## Zanshin (Mar 22, 2022)

Dietz said:


> MIR 3D is the successor to MIR Pro, VSL's spatialisation and reverberation tool. It improves the spatial envelope by introducing Higher Order Ambisonics instead of "just" 1 Order. It will also allow full 3D audio decoding for ATMOS, Auro 3D and many other formats. In addition, MIR 3D will introduce a new preset handling system that should make daily work with the program much easier. ... and of course the so called "Venue Maps" are now also displayed in 3D, too


Looks cool!



Dietz said:


> The bad news is that its release has been _severely_ delayed for a number of reasons, COVID-19 being one, VSL's move to iLok-based copy protection being another. And before you ask - no, I don't dare to talk about expected release dates yet ... _*sigh*_


But this year right?

Just kidding. I'm fine with however long it takes to create a quality product.


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## Dietz (Mar 22, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> But this year right?


As I wrote in another thread: I've already used a beta version of MIR 3D for actual production work, so it's a working application (and a great sounding one at that!), but I really don't dare to give you any estimates on the release date. Thanks for your understanding and patience!


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## Dietz (Mar 22, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> Dietz, then how about, for example, in 5.0.4 of the Synchron Library, how to send a Close mic to the MIR via Send, then mute the MIR's LRC and some Surround, then take only the MIR's additional channels?
> Extend the channel beyond 7.0.4 with this method for example.
> I could try this myself, but right now I'm locked up at home with Covid19.
> It may be a silly idea, but I'm curious what you think.


Not a silly idea at all! In fact, I just recently did an ATMOS up-mix where the original L/R tracks replaced the decoded L/R tracks, and MIR 3D "only" added the air from behind and above.

This way the "official" way of Ambisonics decoding is actually used in a wrong fashion, of course, but as we all know: "If it sounds right, it _is_ right".


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## Bruhelius (Mar 22, 2022)

As a punishment for my bad Dad Joke earlier i decided to buy a license of MIR pro. Very excited…finally i gave up on VSS2 and overall i am needing something more serious. Going to have fun mixing heterogeneous ensembles now


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## doctoremmet (Mar 22, 2022)

Bruhelius said:


> As a punishment for my bad Dad Joke earlier i decided to buy a license of MIR pro. Very excited…finally i gave up on VSS2 and overall i am needing something more serious. Going to have fun mixing heterogeneous ensembles now


I did the same not long ago and this resulted in one of those “to think I hesitated” moments…

You’ll love MIR Pro.


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## Zanshin (Mar 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I did the same not long ago and this resulted in one of those “to think I hesitated” moments…
> 
> You’ll love MIR Pro.


I am also in that camp haha. Once I demo'd it I was an instant convert. It doesn't work with everything, but when it does work...


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## Bruhelius (Mar 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I did the same not long ago and this resulted in one of those “to think I hesitated” moments…
> 
> You’ll love MIR Pro.


Yeah, and while i am not expecting MIR3D upgrades to be free for existing customers, there is hope that the upgrade to 3D would very likely be discounted. Let’s see! Hint to everyone wanting to follow suite, watch out to buy the RP room packs and not MIRx room packs bearing the same name. I fell in the trap, like some others and didn’t double check…


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## doctoremmet (Mar 22, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I am also in that camp haha. Once I demo'd it I was an instant convert. It doesn't work with everything, but when it does work...


I put my Xsample stuff on Synchron Stage and… mind blown. Dry samples + MIR = bliss


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## Zanshin (Mar 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I put my Xsample stuff on Synchron Stage and… mind blown. Dry samples + MIR = bliss


I have been curious about that combo! Thanks, more GAS to contend with haha.


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## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2022)

@Dietz ,

So, does MIR 3D offer improved, or more realistic spatial results than MIR Pro for Stereo productions ? 
i.e. If you were to A/B MIR Pro and MIR 3D for Stereo Orchestral Mixes, how would you describe the improvements that MIR 3D offers, when comparing it with MIR Pro ?

I love using MIR Pro, but I'm now very curious about MIR 3D, and Looking forward to the release, whenever you feel it's ready to be on the launch pad. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Bruhelius (Mar 22, 2022)

Another experiment perhaps worth considering: take sample library’s close mic signal and route through MIR, then take ambient/outrigger mic signal of same library and give it a touch of the reverb tank only maybe just with MIRacle


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## Ben (Mar 22, 2022)

Bruhelius said:


> Hint to everyone wanting to follow suite, watch out to buy the RP room packs and not MIRx room packs bearing the same name. I fell in the trap, like some others and didn’t double check…


I hope you have contacted our support to sort that out (if you don't need the MIRx roompacks)!


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## Dietz (Mar 22, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> If you were to A/B MIR Pro and MIR 3D for Stereo Orchestral Mixes, how would you describe the improvements that MIR 3D offers, when comparing it with MIR Pro ?


No one knows yet - except me, and if I were you, I wouldn't rely solely on this source's opinion.


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## DJiLAND (Mar 22, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> @Dietz ,
> 
> So, does MIR 3D offer improved, or more realistic spatial results than MIR Pro for Stereo productions ?
> i.e. If you were to A/B MIR Pro and MIR 3D for Stereo Orchestral Mixes, how would you describe the improvements that MIR 3D offers, when comparing it with MIR Pro ?
> ...


I believe so.
Low order ambisonics make it difficult to express a spatial sound throughout the human audible range.
For example, as far as I know, the 1st order ambisonics works well below 600Hz, and the 3rd order ambisonics works just below around 1.8~2kHz.
As the order of ambisonics increases, spatial resolution improves and the range of expression of the spatial sound becomes wider(higher?).
Obviously the MIR3D will show a better result.


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## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2022)

Dietz said:


> No one knows yet - except me, and if I were you, I wouldn't rely solely on this source's opinion.


I surely will. 

OK, so please give me a call when it's released. I'm out of the waiting room. Bye.. 

Thanks.


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## Ben (Mar 22, 2022)

@Bruhelius Also, if the reverb is too much for your taste, try reducing the dry/wet ratio a bit, and dial down the reverb time. To widen the stereo width add a Stereo widener plugin around 120%; and too sweeten the sound further add some MIRacle, or any other algorithmic reverb in the master bus.
Like with regular recordings you might want to add saturation, compression, distortion, ... on top.


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## FireGS (Mar 22, 2022)

Dietz said:


> No one knows yet - except me, and if I were you, I wouldn't rely solely on this source's opinion.


Is this source dry or wet?


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## Dietz (Mar 22, 2022)

FireGS said:


> Is this source dry or wet?


Dry as a bone.

Of course.


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## Bruhelius (Mar 22, 2022)

Ben said:


> I hope you have contacted our support to sort that out (if you don't need the MIRx roompacks)!


Yes, I will definitely do that…i just figured I would try to help others to not make the same mistake that I did. Perhaps for those who don’t know much about VSL products and end up clicking on the wrong link in the products section of your website.


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## FireGS (Mar 22, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Dry as a bone.
> 
> Of course.


Silent-Stage Dry, then. Good to know!


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## Casiquire (Mar 22, 2022)

Bruhelius said:


> Yes, I will definitely do that…i just figured I would try to help others to not make the same mistake that I did. Perhaps for those who don’t know much about VSL products and end up clicking on the wrong link in the products section of your website.


If you think their website is confusing now...

Jokes aside though, i do think they can be clearer with respect to MIR and its options. VSL made the instruments on their site a lot clearer recently, but some software can still be confusing to wrap your head around as a buyer. MIR might be the worst offender with its several versions, separate Roompacks, and now soon a whole new version too.


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## DJiLAND (Mar 22, 2022)

FireGS said:


> Silent-Stage Dry, then. Good to know!


Yeah..Some new Synchon-ized comes with MIR 3D. With discounts on all Syz Libraries and VI Libraries! 🤪


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## Petrucci (Mar 22, 2022)

I hope that MIR rooom packs would be able to be upgraded to MIR3D room packs with the same venues..!


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## FireGS (Mar 22, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> I hope that MIR rooom packs would be able to be upgraded to MIR3D room packs with the same venues..!


I hope the room packs are even better than before


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## Dietz (Mar 22, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> I hope that MIR rooom packs would be able to be upgraded to MIR3D room packs with the same venues..!


Yes, all existing MIR Venues were transformed to HOA using a proprietary technique developed in collaboration with the genius minds at IEM *), the Institute of Electronic Music at the University of Music and Performing Arts Graz. Existing projects should load with minimal sonic differences.

_*) That's one of the world's hotspots for Ambisonics development and spatial audio research in general. No wonder that several brilliant developers of companies like Sonible or Atmoky have their roots there. _



FireGS said:


> I hope the room packs are even better than before


As soon as you switch the decoding to 3rd Order Ambisonics, they will. The effect is already noticeable in stereo, and it will be dramatic in surround (let alone in 3D).


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## FireGS (Mar 22, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Yes, all existing venues were transformed to HOA using a proprietary technique developed in collaboration with the genius minds at IEM *), the Institute of Electronic Music at the University of Music and Performing Arts Graz. Existing projects should load with minimal sonic differences.
> 
> _*) That's one of the world's hotspots for Ambisonics development and spatial audio research in general. No wonder that several brilliant developers of companies like Sonible or Atmoky have their roots there. _
> 
> ...


I'm betting that complex instruments like Horns will benefit greatly from 3rd order


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## JTB (Mar 22, 2022)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> Here is a small commercial for Chamberstrings.


Are these the Synchronized Chamber Strings and Solo Strings or the VI versions?.


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## Bruhelius (Mar 23, 2022)

Ben said:


> I hope you have contacted our support to sort that out (if you don't need the MIRx roompacks)!


Dear Ben, yes... in fact I am still struggling to get MIR Pro to see my installed RP 1. I have tried everything... what would you say is the default installation directory for roompacks on windows 10?
I sent an inquiry to support... I hope that they will help me get this sorted out.


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## daviddln (Mar 23, 2022)

Will MIRacle be updated as well? It would be nice to have a GUI similar to the ones found in the Vienna Suite Pro.


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## BasariStudios (Mar 23, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> If you think their website is confusing now...
> 
> Jokes aside though, i do think they can be clearer with respect to MIR and its options. VSL made the instruments on their site a lot clearer recently, but some software can still be confusing to wrap your head around as a buyer. MIR might be the worst offender with its several versions, separate Roompacks, and now soon a whole new version too.


Its very confusing now. I had a nightmare for few hours
few days ago because of that confusion. My Libraries are
READY to be converted to iLok but after the nightmare 
i had i am too scared to make that move. Also...
As far as i can understand, when transferring to iLok
you will have to REdownload everything you own from them.


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## BasariStudios (Mar 23, 2022)

Does anyone know anything or can guide me as i am complete
Idiot when it comes to MIR PRO. I have an iLok Demo License
for it but everything else i own is ELicenser. I installed 2 Packs,
but there was no installer for MIR it self so i took it as the Pack
it self consists of the Player/Container for MIR PRO.
After Activation and Installation i don't seem to find anything
MIR related in VEPRO...how can i get to it?


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## Casiquire (Mar 23, 2022)

BasariStudios said:


> Does anyone know anything or can guide me as i am complete
> Idiot when it comes to MIR PRO. I have an iLok Demo License
> for it but everything else i own is ELicenser. I installed 2 Packs,
> but there was no installer for MIR it self so i took it as the Pack
> ...


If it's aniLok license, you probably need to install it using the new Vienna Assistant, not the old Download Manager. The Vienna Assistant has a nice interface with a lot of pictures and backgrounds; the Download Manager was bare-bones with just a list of what's downloading.

Once you're done with that, make sure it's authorized to your Ilok or cloud session (assuming the demos work the same way as full downloads.)

I will say, the user experience right now is *extremely* confusing. And VSL software has a tendency to be confusing too until you're up and running, then it's life-changing lol.


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## Zanshin (Mar 23, 2022)

There is no standalone plugin iLok MIR Pro/24 at the moment.

There is (or should be lol) integrated MIR in iLok VEP (if you have activated the iLok MIR license).


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## BasariStudios (Mar 23, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> If it's aniLok license, you probably need to install it using the new Vienna Assistant, not the old Download Manager.


That is what i did.



Zanshin said:


> There is no standalone plugin iLok MIR Pro/24 at the moment.
> 
> There is (or should be lol) integrated MIR in iLok VEP (if you have activated the iLok MIR license).


I have the iLok version of MIR PRO and the Packs but my VEPRO 7 is eLicenser version. I still can not find anything about MIR in VEPRO 7, maybe due to the 2 different Licensing Methods? Are they under Insert Plugins in VEPRO or...?


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## Zanshin (Mar 23, 2022)

BasariStudios said:


> I have the iLok version of MIR PRO and the Packs but my VEPRO 7 is eLicenser version. I still can not find anything about MIR in VEPRO 7, maybe due to the 2 different Licensing Methods?


Yes, your eLic version VEP doesn't know about the iLok MIR lic.


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## BasariStudios (Mar 23, 2022)

Ah thanks...then i need to wait. I don't wanna transfer yet, i am scared, plus i have to redownload all the Libraries i think for iLok switch. Also, on my options there they do not give you an option to switch only certain things, its 1 Deposit and Deposits all Licenses into iLok.


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## Zanshin (Mar 23, 2022)

BasariStudios said:


> Ah thanks...then i need to wait. I don't wanna transfer yet, i am scared, plus i have to redownload all the Libraries i think for iLok switch. Also, on my options there they do not give you an option to switch only certain things, its 1 Deposit and Deposits all Licenses into iLok.


Especially if you have deadlines, just hold tight haha.


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## Dietz (Mar 23, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> There is no standalone plugin iLok MIR Pro/24 at the moment.
> 
> There is (or should be lol) integrated MIR in iLok VEP (if you have activated the iLok MIR license).


^^^^^^^^ This!


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## BasariStudios (Mar 23, 2022)

Dietz said:


> ^^^^^^^^ This!


Yes, but it means also VE PRO 7 has to be iLok Version and not EL for the whole thing to work together, right? Another thing, now since all my Licenses are available to transfer to iLok, i have to deposit all or i can choose only VEPRO?


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## Dietz (Mar 23, 2022)

BasariStudios said:


> Yes, but it means also VE PRO 7 has to be iLok Version and not EL for the whole thing to work together, right? Another thing, now since all my Licenses are available to transfer to iLok, i have to deposit all or i can choose only VEPRO?


Errrrr ... For questions like this, it is certainly best to contact VSL's support team directly. Please write an email to [email protected]. I'm just a sound-guy ...


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## Bruhelius (Mar 24, 2022)

Dear @Dietz , a small digression...I am no expert, but...






Wayverb - Home







reuk.github.io












Simulation Software for Analyzing Acoustics and Vibrations


Study and predict sound quality and noise reduction by modeling acoustic behavior using COMSOL Multiphysics® and the Acoustics Module. Learn more here.




www.comsol.com





Can you use such tools to take a LIDAR-mapped room and calculate the IR's at every position, knowing all the material properties? You could even add audience in the mix...


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## Dietz (Mar 24, 2022)

Theoretically, this could be possible, but I doubt that you can emulate a real hall in all its details with less effort than actually recording it.  ... and you would still never know if you really nailed it - without comparing the results with recordings.

It might be different for the creation of "virtual" spaces, but then, algorithmic reverb has already been invented for that task.


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 26, 2022)

JTB said:


> Are these the Synchronized Chamber Strings and Solo Strings or the VI versions?.


It is the sound of the VI versions. It is included in the synchronized versions - that means in the synchronous player.
How to get the VI sound with the synchronized libraries, you will learn in the video...
Original-VI-Sound with the Synchronized Libraries.

Have fun
Beat


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 26, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Thank you for chiming in! To be clear, i thought that Synchronized libraries get other upgrades and edits too, like a full remaster and re-edit and rebalancing to fit the rest of the series. I'm assuming Chamber has these edits baked in as well, right? Or is all the sample data and scripting actually identical to the original version, with the only difference being positioning in MIR? Thanks again.





Beat Kaufmann said:


> *I will produce a small video about it, which will show everything.*
> Patience and see you in a few hours.
> Beat


What VSL did with the VI samples before they "planted" them into the SYNCHRON player, I don't know. 

As far as the Chamberstrings are concerned, VSL built a Violin 2 from the old sample stock. But even more important for the lovers of the "old VI sound quality" from the Silent Stage: 
It can also be selected in the synchronized player in the synchronized libraries per preset - without the "synchronized processing".

Here is the promised video (Unfortunately, the production took a little longer than expected - sorry)
 

Have fun
Beat


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## Ben (Mar 26, 2022)

Well... SYNCHRON-ized instruments and default presets are made to match the sound in the Synchron Stage in an orchestral context, and not to produce an chamber music sound out of the box. Therefore, these presets shine when used in a context they are made for. But as you have demonstrated, it's possible to create your own mix in case you want to have another sound and/or music style.


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## Zanshin (Mar 26, 2022)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> What VSL did with the VI samples before they "planted" them into the SYNCHRON player, I don't know.
> 
> As far as the Chamberstrings are concerned, VSL built a Violin 2 from the old sample stock. But even more important for the lovers of the "old VI sound quality" from the Silent Stage:
> It can also be selected in the synchronized player in the synchronized libraries per preset - without the "synchronized processing".
> ...



I think what @JTB is getting at is the Syz Chamber Strings samples have been "Completely re-mastered and re-edited sample database" (VSL's words), so just using the "MIR Unprocessed" preset will not get you the VI samples (and thus sound) ... and some were not happy with the new sound. I don't have an real opinion myself since I don't own either, but some examples I've heard that contrast VI vs Syz Chamber Strings give me pause so I'm going to stay away.

If someone wants the VI Chamber Strings in the Synchron Player Syz SE Vol 2 is probably the best bet. The Synchron-ized SE Chamber Strings did not use the Syz Chamber String but is a port of the VI SE samples instead. With the caveat that you are getting a lighter sample and articulation set.

I was weighing all this recently, bought Syz SE Vol 3 (solo mutes, chamber mutes, Appassionata normal and mutes, and harp 2). The Syz SE chamber mutes sound wonderful.

Instead of getting Syz Chamber Strings I decided to double (triple?!) down and complete my Syz Dim String bundle with Vol 2, 3, and bonus. I still may pick up Syz SE Vol 2 at some point for the Chamber normale though.


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## Marcus Millfield (Mar 26, 2022)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> What VSL did with the VI samples before they "planted" them into the SYNCHRON player, I don't know.
> 
> As far as the Chamberstrings are concerned, VSL built a Violin 2 from the old sample stock. But even more important for the lovers of the "old VI sound quality" from the Silent Stage:
> It can also be selected in the synchronized player in the synchronized libraries per preset - without the "synchronized processing".
> ...




This is exactly what I do to get that classic sound with the comforts of the Synchron player. The only difference is that I use Synchon-ized Dimension strings, mixed in MIR and controlled by Divisimate. The latter makes it easier to orchestrate and play in parts for the various player, or create desks etc.

Still am curious about the sound of the original VI strings libraries.


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 26, 2022)

Ben said:


> Well... SYNCHRON-ized instruments and default presets are made to match the sound in the Synchron Stage in an orchestral context, and not to produce an chamber music sound out of the box. Therefore, these presets shine when used in a context they are made for. But as you have demonstrated, it's possible to create your own mix in case you want to have another sound and/or music style.


Hello Ben
For many users, your presets are a great help even without other (SYNCHRON) libraries. These users would probably prefer to compose rather than having to create an orchestral sound with dry samples. I assume that this was also one of the reasons for developing MIR - as a great help for mixing your samples.

Then of course there are the others who, with the dry samples, are given the opportunity to create a mix exactly according to their ideas. As I understood Herb, your original goal was to offer this possibility with your dry samples - in other words offering the "total flexibility".

I think that you have found an ideal solution to serve both camps.Now, it should be accepted by the preset users that a skillfully self-created mix, which is usually given a lot of time, will hopefully sound a little better than one that was created with (universal) presets.

Now all these "themselves-mixer-customers " are looking for the original dry VI sounds.
Since the default presets were not available at the beginning of the Synchronized Libraries, it is still not entirely clear to everyone that with the current Synchronized Libraries you can actually benefit from A) the possibilities of the SYNCHRON player B) from the ready-made presets and C) at the same time that one can also have "the original VI sounds" with the possibility of choosing settings at your own.

*The video wants to resolve this ambiguity.*
Maybe that's why a few more customers will buy now the synchronized versions again, because your VI samples are still worth every cent today.
I already did a commercial for the Chamberstrings above 

Beat


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 26, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> This is exactly what I do to get that classic sound with the comforts of the Synchron player. The only difference is that I use Synchon-ized Dimension strings, mixed in MIR and controlled by Divisimate. The latter makes it easier to orchestrate and play in parts for the various player, or create desks etc.
> 
> Still am curious about the sound of the original VI strings libraries.


Marcus and
I've been using the Chamber Strings since they came out.
Back then I created a lot of demos with the library for VSL - I mean I know the samples and their sound very well. When the Chamber Strings came out synchronized I was asked again for a demo. I declined because I didn't recognize "my old" samples. I didn't want my name associated with that "new" quality. I also had the feeling that I couldn't make music anymore with the samples. As it turned out later, the customers were not satisfied with the sound either. That was probably the reason why the "MIR-unprocessed" preset was then offered. Today I am of the opinion that the samples with this unprocessed preset are the old samples again (sound).
If you read Remixed on the VSL site, you should not see it in a different sound.

A violin 2 was created from the sample material.
Spiccato was only in the repetition articulations with the original library
Perhaps individual articulations were exchanged from the huge pool of recorded variants.
Maybe a few more round robin variants were linked together.
etc.
In this respect, the samples were probably a bit new orginized and so on. Then I can pretend that certain volume adjustments were made within the samples so that they harmonize even better with each other. Again "Remixed" means stuff like that for me - not a new Sound.
In any case: From the sound I now recognize "unprecessed" the old chamber strings, as I have always known them.

Beat


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## Casiquire (Mar 26, 2022)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> What VSL did with the VI samples before they "planted" them into the SYNCHRON player, I don't know.
> 
> As far as the Chamberstrings are concerned, VSL built a Violin 2 from the old sample stock. But even more important for the lovers of the "old VI sound quality" from the Silent Stage:
> It can also be selected in the synchronized player in the synchronized libraries per preset - without the "synchronized processing".
> ...



Thank you for all the effort you put into this! It was more than I was expecting. From just a quick listen, the Close preset sounds great to my ears but the others sound a bit washed in reverb, and like we're hearing way too much room for such a small sound. 

Maybe I'm starting to get a better grasp on the issue with the Chamber Strings now. It's a small section intended to do small chamber music with close, detailed sounds in small rooms. The goal of the Synchronized libraries is to make them fit into the sound and workflow of *much larger* libraries recorded to capture more ambience; the goal wasn't necessarily to make Chamber Strings sound its best in its own light. And that's ok if you're mixing it with other Synchron libraries, but for people who loved the original and got used to using it as standalone in more intimate settings, yeah i can see why they'd think the new sound is inferior. It is inferior...for that particular purpose.

So it seems to me like Syz Chamber isn't so bad after all? Though i invite users to correct me if I'm way off base


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## Marcus Millfield (Mar 26, 2022)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> In this respect, the samples were probably a bit new orginized and so on. Then I can pretend that certain volume adjustments were made within the samples so that they harmonize even better with each other. Again "Remixed" means stuff like that for me - not a new Sound.
> In any case: From the sound I now recognize "unprecessed" the old chamber strings, as I have always known them.
> 
> Beat



Hi Beat,

You probably answered an age-old question/myth about the Synchron-ized library: wether you have the original VI or the Synchron-ized version, the difference isn't in the sound when using the right presets in the Synchron player. This is important to know, because as you've said the information from VSL isn't too clear about what the terminology used really mean.

I get that the "remixed" part as you call it is a step forward for those who like to use the presets from the library, as it brings the instrument together and creates a more homogenous sound. For us who mix these ourselves, it's not a big deal as we're mixing individual instruments/sections anyway. There is something for everyone in the Synchron-ized libraries.

I have to say that I'm really fond of the unprocessed presets and using MIR to not only place the orchestra the way I want, but to fine tune every player in the orchestra the way I like. It is a big project to work this way and you can easily get distracted by micromanaging the orchestra, but the possibilities are endless. MIR also makes mixing easier for me, as it translates the relationships between the instruments my ears hear to a visual representation of orchestral seating and direction, volume and quality of sound in relation to the positioning of the microphones. This goes beyond the rather abstract way a mixer for example represents these aspects.


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## Zanshin (Mar 26, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> So it seems to me like Syz Chamber isn't so bad after all? Though i invite users to correct me if I'm way off base


That would be awesome if true. 

"MIR Unprocessed" preset, yes it's convenient. But it literally only takes two seconds (3 or 4 mouse clicks) to turn off effects, and IR, which is what that preset is. It's not rocket science.

So given that it is that easy, if that's all it took and then the Syz Chamber Strings would sound like the VI Chamber Strings ... how could there still be debate at this point even??? 

There is the long standing debate regarding VI WW vs Syz WW. We know that for Syz WW, the samples were edited, and at a minimum the stereo width was narrowed (assuming so they would take to IRs better?). 

"For creating SYNCHRON-ized Chamber Strings, our sound editors went back to the raw, unprocessed sample data of the Chamber Strings I Collection. The original recordings were completely re-edited and re-mastered in order to achieve an all-new, modern chamber string sound that excels in terms of aesthetics, playability and realism, and that is optimized for use alongside the Synchron Series instruments." - VSL

So given all of the above are the complainers just cork sniffers?

I love what I hear in the Syz SE Chamber strings (I was able to demo it), if the Syz Chamber Strings are as good I'm a buyer.


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## Casiquire (Mar 26, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> That would be awesome if true.
> 
> "MIR Unprocessed" preset, yes it's convenient. But it literally only takes two seconds (3 or 4 mouse clicks) to turn off effects, and IR, which is what that preset is. It's not rocket science.
> 
> ...


Part of my line of questioning was just to figure out if it really is that simple. It was a question of how much processing happened to the raw sound, and from the looks of it the answer is "not much". But it also sounds like the original didn't come with that unprocessed setting, which also goes a long way toward explaining the initial negative reaction. And nobody's been chiming in with their negative experiences, so I'm inclined to believe we have the story straight now?


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## Zanshin (Mar 26, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Part of my line of questioning was just to figure out if it really is that simple. It was a question of how much processing happened to the raw sound, and from the looks of it the answer is "not much". But it also sounds like the original didn't come with that unprocessed setting, which also goes a long way toward explaining the initial negative reaction. And nobody's been chiming in with their negative experiences, so I'm inclined to believe we have the story straight now?


Haha I wouldn't be so sure.

Here's a post https://vi-control.net/community/threads/vsl-keeps-on-synchron-izing.74576/post-4276235

@richhickey you say you compared dry vs dry. Did you turn of the verb and IR both?

EDIT: I requested a demo and they said no haha. I'm not going to pay $50+ more to buy it directly from VSL just in case I want to return it, that's silly. Oh well.


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 26, 2022)

*Chamber Strings Pure as download... *

As you know, I mix everything myself. In connection with my mixing-tutorial, I offer certain pieces of music with individual audio tracks to learn how to mix.
If you want to listen to different string libraries yourself and how the individual instruments sound, you are welcome to download such projects. The single audio tracks are of course always "unprocessed" in every respect.
Regarding chamber strings I especially recommend "*Eine kleine Nachtmusik*" and "*E-Partita by R.P. Mangiagalli*".
With these two projects everyone can hear for himself how the Chamber Library sounds pure... also compared to other String Libraries. In both projects, of course, all strings are out from the Synchron Players and as mentioned "unprocessed (default)" even the synchron strings Elite and Pro.

A lot of successs
Beat


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## richhickey (Mar 26, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Part of my line of questioning was just to figure out if it really is that simple. It was a question of how much processing happened to the raw sound, and from the looks of it the answer is "not much". But it also sounds like the original didn't come with that unprocessed setting, which also goes a long way toward explaining the initial negative reaction. And nobody's been chiming in with their negative experiences, so I'm inclined to believe we have the story straight now?


It is trivial to turn off the reverb and IRs, you don't need that preset. I do that for all the Synchronized series instruments I own (most of them), because I use MIR and want to place them in different rooms or with different settings.

The Syz-ed Chamber Strings website says "The original recordings were completely re-edited and re-mastered in order to achieve an all-new, modern chamber string sound that excels in terms of aesthetics, playability and realism". I don't know why anyone would expect them to be the same, and they aren't. 

If there are any people who own both and think they sound the same 🤷‍♂️ . But the vast majority of people talking about this own either just one, or neither and are speculating. VSL has not said they are the same. The only people who have perhaps wish they were.

Here's a quick A/B, each set of identical 8 notes is played first with VI CS and second with Synchronized CS. The IR, EQ and reverb are off with Synchronized.

View attachment VIChamberVsSyized.mp3


Yes, they start with the same recordings. But the differences are readily apparent: The beautiful articulate onset bowing of VI CS that its fans love is clipped in Syized. The Syized is generally less distinct. It's less about 'processing' than editing and the way it's mapped to the Synchron playback engine I think.

Then we get to the articulation set. While Syized has somewhat automatically incorporated e.g. repetition patches, the following patches of VI Chamber Strings are simply MIA:

Staccato Short
Stac-spic
Sus espressivo
2 and 3 second crescendo and diminuendos
Strong crescendos and diminuendos
The non-vib dynamics
Sffz
Baroque trills
Trill dynamics
Portato rep
Harsh rep
Harmonics stac/sus/rep/nat.gliss
Legato slur
Legato sul
Legato zigane
Fast repetitions
Grace notes
Speed variations

There is simply no way in which Synchronized CS is a substitute for VI CS, unlike say Synchronized DS, which is a fine, faithful and complete replacement for the VI version and in many ways a usability improvement.

One simply has to remember the context in which Syized CS was released - as a supplement for SS1, as a blending tool to add more clarity, intimacy and bite. And it may excel at that. But if you want a great dry chamber strings lib, get the VI version.


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## Zanshin (Mar 26, 2022)

@richhickey I really appreciate your viewpoint and for taking the time and energy to post!


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 26, 2022)

richhickey said:


> It is trivial to turn off the reverb and IRs, you don't need that preset. I do that for all the Synchronized ....


Dear richickey
You play a few staccati here, of which one really does not know which library is playing which note. Further you claim that the chamberstrings are not the same at all. Based on your sound sample I can't make a judgement. And yes, maybe not all articulations were taken over in the same way or maybe they were put together a bit differently. Still, it's not as dramatic as you describe when it comes to making music. What it's really about is whether they still sound similar when used as an orchestra, like the old samples.... 

...If you don't take the time to prove your assertions, I will do it and produce a small piece, once VI and once Synchronized unprocessed and am curious myself about the result. Such a piece, played with a full orchestra, should in any case clearly show your described "huge" difference! 

By the way: With the cello, the staccati, the spiccati and the short détaché samples in the Synchronized Player are probably always the same samples. This is probably a bug that should be fixed by VSL. But this has nothing to do with different samples and different sound between VI and Synchronized. 

Soon
Beat


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## Ben (Mar 27, 2022)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> You play a few staccati here, of which one really does not know which library is playing which note. Further you claim that the chamberstrings are not the same at all. Based on your sound sample I can't make a judgement. And yes, maybe not all articulations were taken over in the same way or maybe they were put together a bit differently. Still, it's not as dramatic as you describe when it comes to making music. What it's really about is whether they still sound similar when used as an orchestra, like the old samples....


While the SYized Chamber Strings are based on the same recordings as the VI Chamber Strings, we changed the mastering chain to a more true-to life / less processed one. So there is an audible difference, especially when used together.
I can see if I can get information about the differences in mastering; imo it should be quite easy to achieve the VI sound with a FX chain.




Beat Kaufmann said:


> By the way: With the cello, the staccati, the spiccati and the short détaché samples in the Synchronized Player are probably always the same samples. This is probably a bug that should be fixed by VSL. But this has nothing to do with different samples and different sound between VI and Synchronized.


These are not the same samples, I just checked.


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## richhickey (Mar 27, 2022)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> Dear richickey
> You play a few staccati here, of which one really does not know which library is playing which note. Further you claim that the chamberstrings are not the same at all. Based on your sound sample I can't make a judgement. And yes, maybe not all articulations were taken over in the same way or maybe they were put together a bit differently. Still, it's not as dramatic as you describe when it comes to making music. What it's really about is whether they still sound similar when used as an orchestra, like the old samples....
> 
> ...If you don't take the time to prove your assertions, I will do it and produce a small piece, once VI and once Synchronized unprocessed and am curious myself about the result. Such a piece, played with a full orchestra, should in any case clearly show your described "huge" difference!
> ...


You can do whatever you like. I never said "huge" or anything so hyperbolic. That they are different treatments of the same recordings is *precisely* *what VSL has said*, so go prove them wrong about their own library.

I am exhausted by this topic. I've given my assessment many times and will not bother again. It's an objective fact that there are far fewer articulations, so for me the choice is clear - one gains next to nothing by going with the Synchronized version (a fixed MIR treatment and some alignment with SS1), and misses much.


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## Casiquire (Mar 27, 2022)

richhickey said:


> You can do whatever you like. I never said "huge" or anything so hyperbolic. That they are different treatments of the same recordings is *precisely* *what VSL has said*, so go prove them wrong about their own library.
> 
> I am exhausted by this topic. I've given my assessment many times and will not bother again. It's an objective fact that there are far fewer articulations, so for me the choice is clear - one gains next to nothing by going with the Synchronized version (a fixed MIR treatment and some alignment with SS1), and misses much.


I get your frustration on the topic, but i do appreciate you coming in with your experiences with the library. You seem to be one of the only people who has it and is willing to post about your issues with it and that's helpful for those of us in the dark. I understand if you don't want to participate more, but thanks for the things you've already brought up


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## Zanshin (Mar 27, 2022)

richhickey said:


> You can do whatever you like. I never said "huge" or anything so hyperbolic. That they are different treatments of the same recordings is *precisely* *what VSL has said*, so go prove them wrong about their own library.
> 
> I am exhausted by this topic. I've given my assessment many times and will not bother again. It's an objective fact that there are far fewer articulations, so for me the choice is clear - one gains next to nothing by going with the Synchronized version (a fixed MIR treatment and some alignment with SS1), and misses much.


I agree with @Casiquire. Thank you for your input. For me, doubly thanks, because I've almost pulled the trigger on Syz Chamber Strings a number of times. I may still pick up VI Chamber Strings at some point but I'm a bit soured on the subject after this thread and the lack being able to demo Syz Chamber Strings or return it if I buy from Best Service (I refuse to pay VSL's VAT included prices from the US). Funny right now Synchron-ized Chamber Strings is more than the VI version? Not sure why that is...

We're all fans/users of VSL in this thread (I think), and a critique of a product is not the end of the world.


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 27, 2022)

Hello all together
Regarding richhickey's review, I think it's a pity that he couldn't really point out how the sound differs. So I took it upon myself to get to the bottom of it and produce short orchestral sequences that you can really compare. Even if richhikey is disappointed that the synchronized version sounds different from the beloved original VI Chamber Strings, that doesn't mean that the different sound bothers everyone. I'm sorry, richhikey, that I reacted a little edgy. Now I have heard with my own ears that the Sync. Chambers sound "different" to the VI-ones. Different doesn't mean "worse" to begin with.

So as far as the sound is concerned, richhikey is indeed right and Ben from VSL has also confirmed this above. My first demo will also show this difference. In the broadest sense, the "harshness" of the sound has been taken away (too much?), so that the library can be used together with other libraries more easily. In fact, I often use the Sync. Chambers as an addition to another string library. This makes the overall sound somewhat fuller, but the sync. chambers do not stand out themselves.

But I want to do some more research and finally point out all the differences I noticed... 
The results will be published in a video. I will also make all the audio material available so that anyone interested can listen to it on their own system. At the same time, I will add the Elite strings as well. The goal is a video, together with audio material (without any sound-influencing effect), so that everyone can decide for themselves which is the right sound (library) for them. As we have seen more than once, there is obviously not THE sound that everyone likes...

I hope the planed video will be more helpful for those who are interested than a ping pong between the enthusiastic and the frustrated. 
I hope to have the video ready in the coming week and and that I will be able to publish it (in a new thread) next weekend.

And yes: I, too, am impressed by many VSL products. Those that I find less good, I simply don't use. 
My posts here are mainly to get the best out of the products. 

I wish everyone a poductive week.
Beat


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## Trash Panda (Mar 27, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I refuse to pay VSL's VAT included prices from the US


They charge VAT to US customers?


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## Zanshin (Mar 27, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> They charge VAT to US customers?


LOL.

Technically they don't charge VAT to US customers, it's just that price is the same without VAT as when VAT is included.


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## Edu (Mar 27, 2022)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> Hello all together
> Regarding richhickey's review, I think it's a pity that he couldn't really point out how the sound differs. So I took it upon myself to get to the bottom of it and produce short orchestral sequences that you can really compare. Even if richhikey is disappointed that the synchronized version sounds different from the beloved original VI Chamber Strings, that doesn't mean that the different sound bothers everyone. I'm sorry, richhikey, that I reacted a little edgy. Now I have heard with my own ears that the Sync. Chambers sound "different" to the VI-ones. Different doesn't mean "worse" to begin with.
> 
> So as far as the sound is concerned, richhikey is indeed right and Ben from VSL has also confirmed this above. My first demo will also show this difference. In the broadest sense, the "harshness" of the sound has been taken away (too much?), so that the library can be used together with other libraries more easily. In fact, I often use the Sync. Chambers as an addition to another string library. This makes the overall sound somewhat fuller, but the sync. chambers do not stand out themselves.
> ...


Dear Beat,
I hope this will be very informative as all your other videos.
Thanks in advance,
Eduardo


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## DaddyO (Mar 27, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> LOL.
> 
> Technically they don't charge VAT to US customers, it's just that price is the same without VAT as when VAT is included


Can you explain what you are saying? Are you saying the euro prices show on the VSL website already include VAT, and that the euro to dollar conversion, which adds to the price for US customers, is on top of that? That's news to me. In all my years of buying VSL I haven't heard that before.

In the end, of course, I am always shown the estimated final price before I agree to pay.


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## Zanshin (Mar 27, 2022)

DaddyO said:


> Can you explain what you are saying? Are you saying the euro prices show on the VSL website already include VAT, and that the euro to dollar conversion, which adds to the price for US customers, is on top of that? That's news to me. In all my years of buying VSL I haven't heard that before.
> 
> In the end, of course, I am always shown the estimated final price before I agree to pay.


Hah I regret mentioning that and taking this thread off the rails a bit.

Yes. So you pay the same price in Euros as someone in the EU that is paying (VAT included).

I thought maybe they did it that way because it was easier to have one price across the board, but for example, if you live in Switzerland, they remove the VAT from the price!

So now I assume it's because we're annoying to deal with


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## DaddyO (Mar 27, 2022)

Wow, thanks for educating me.


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## Zanshin (Apr 1, 2022)

I picked up VI Chamber Strings bundle today, and then used the BestCoins I had built up to buy the Syz crossgrades for both fairly cheap. I haven't had a ton of time with them yet, but my first impressions are they are very different. I am still learning the whole VI setup though. The legatos in the Syz version seem to use what are called espressivo sustains in the VI version. Here is an example of the sustain, first 3 notes from VI then 3 notes from Syz. All reverb, IRs, etc turned off. Both at 127 for XF so there should be no crossfade going on.

View attachment espressivo sus.mp3


I can't seem to find the sustains that the VI version uses for it's main legato patch in the Syz version (which is more progressive and less heavy). If do more comparisons I'll find a more appropriate thread as this one has suffered enough haha.

Back on topic - I also completed my Roompack bundle with 1, 3, and 4. Holy they are all great. The chamber strings in the Vienna and Sage concert halls are a terrific match. I can't wait to hear these venues with the MIR 3D tune up


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## DJiLAND (Apr 6, 2022)

Today I sent the Close mic signal from the Synchron Library to the Aux, put it into the MIR Pro, muted all channels except for the rear surround, and mixed it with the native mic from the Synchron Library.
This seems to work pretty well. 
The default Synchron Library is up to 5.0.4 channels, but I was able to achieve 7.0.4(Synchron's Main, Main-C, Surround, High Front, High Surround and MIR Pro's Rear Surround) with the MIR Pro.
The only downside is that my PC's CPU is reaching its limit.
Hopefully when MIR 3D is released Sy-ized will also have a height channel.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 13, 2022)

So far I am really liking what I hear out of MIR 3D. Nearly everything I've thrown at it works fantastically. I picked Room Pack 2 as my freebie to be able to easily match in modeled/semi-modeled instruments to Arks/Berlin libraries in Teldex of course along with the other dry rooms/stages for Tokyo Scoring Strings matching (ORF Studio 2 and 3 seem to work well for this). 

Considering picking up Room Pack 1 or 4 when wanting a more classical sound or trying to easily blend with AROOF.

Curious to hear how the below aligns with other people's experiences and what other good bits of knowledge can be shared.

Observations according to my non-professional ears with the Teldex room:

When matching up a super dry VI to an OT tree mic, results seem to be better when moving the MIR dry/wet slider to 100% wet vs the recommendation of 30%-50% dry/wet
When dialing in to match a tree + close mic, match up the tree first, set the OT lib close mic as desired and dial back the MIR dry/wet accordingly
When dialing in surround mics on an OT lib, do the same as above, but add in the secondary mic at a further position, such as control room in the normal Teldex configuration
If I were to be EVEN pickier with dialing in close mics and had the ear for it, I'd probably:

Route a copy of the dry signal out of the VI separately, match EQ it to the OT library close mic and use 100% wet within MIR
Do a match EQ against the OT library close mic and run that through MIR
When running a dry library that still has a decent amount of room information in it, I definitely hear a better result when turning the dry/wet down to 20%-30% like a standard reverb.

I'm also seeing some promising initial results of using MIR to replace Precedence for panning and distance by soloing the dry signal.


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## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2022)

Is this still a waiting room ? I thought the Doctor arrived.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 13, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> So far I am really liking what I hear out of MIR 3D. Nearly everything I've thrown at it works fantastically. I picked Room Pack 2 as my freebie to be able to easily match in modeled/semi-modeled instruments to Arks/Berlin libraries in Teldex of course along with the other dry rooms/stages for Tokyo Scoring Strings matching (ORF Studio 2 and 3 seem to work well for this).
> 
> Considering picking up Room Pack 1 or 4 when wanting a more classical sound or trying to easily blend with AROOF.
> 
> ...


Can you post some examples?

The VSL demos sound utterly artificial to me - like the instruments are just floating in midair.


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## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> like the instruments are just floating in midair.


 Zero-Gravity Perspective


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 13, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> The VSL demos sound utterly artificial to me - like the instruments are just floating in midair.


Glad it's not just me.


----------



## Trash Panda (Jul 13, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Can you post some examples?
> 
> The VSL demos sound utterly artificial to me - like the instruments are just floating in midair.


I can later tonight. I’ll do something like BWW Oboe 1 tree -> BWW Soloist Oboe -> Infinite Woodwinds Oboe 1 and maybe another if I find one that can do the line I have to my satisfaction.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 13, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I can later tonight. I’ll do something like BWW Oboe 1 tree -> BWW Soloist Oboe -> Infinite Woodwinds Oboe 1 and maybe another if I find one that can do the line I have to my satisfaction.


Could you show them in context, like an orchestral track using all VSL?


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## Trash Panda (Jul 13, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Could you show them in context, like an orchestral track using all VSL?


Umm, only if there is a dry VSL orchestra with a demo.


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## Zanshin (Jul 13, 2022)

The Mank soundtrack is a pretty good demo for MIR 





Anyway, you guys should demo it. That's best way to find out if it'll work for you (and the material you want to use with it).


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## Zanshin (Jul 13, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> So far I am really liking what I hear out of MIR 3D. Nearly everything I've thrown at it works fantastically. I picked Room Pack 2 as my freebie to be able to easily match in modeled/semi-modeled instruments to Arks/Berlin libraries in Teldex of course along with the other dry rooms/stages for Tokyo Scoring Strings matching (ORF Studio 2 and 3 seem to work well for this).
> 
> Considering picking up Room Pack 1 or 4 when wanting a more classical sound or trying to easily blend with AROOF.
> 
> ...


I think you'll get a lot of miliage out of Roompack 2 

I am less sure about a good pairing for Abbey Road. What's the RT60? You can demo the other roompacks right now I think? But 1 and 4 are great.

I like Pernegg for Air (Reverb time scaling to 2.5 secs, dry-wet to taste).

Your work with Teldex makes sense to me but I'm not matching within instrument families like you want to do. I'm using either brass recorded in Teldex or VSL stuff placed in Teldex MIR, not at the same time. And even when using mostly Teldex my mic tastes are a little different for strings vs brass. I'm excited to hear your results!


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## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2022)

Hi MIR PRO 3D Fans, 

I'm ready to Upgrade from MIR-Pro to MIR-PRO 3D. Upgrade price is €135. 

I already have these Room Packs : 1,2,3,6. Each upgrade costs €25. So, that's a €100 for the Room Packs upgrade. 

So, now I'm trying to decide which additional Room Pack I should get for Free 
Room Pack 4 The (Sage Gateshead) or 5 (Pernegg Monastery) ? 

I'm leaning more toward 4 (The Sage Gateshead), but I'm not sure. Anyone have the Pernegg Monastery Room Pack 5 , how useful has it been ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Ben (Jul 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi MIR PRO 3D Fans,
> 
> I'm ready to Upgrade from MIR-Pro to MIR-PRO 3D. Upgrade price is €135.
> 
> ...


In this case you might consider getting the more expensive room for free, and instead of upgrading each room, upgrade to the roompack bundle instead.


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## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2022)

Ben said:


> In this case you might consider getting the more expensive room for free, and instead of upgrading each room, upgrade to the roompack bundle instead.


Hi @Ben ,

Yes, I should consider this option. I will check it out in more detail, and decide. 

Thanks for your helpful recommendation.


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## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2022)

OH. @Ben ,

One more thing I wanted to double check. 

If I upgrade to MIR-Pro 3D, can I still use my MIR-Pro and its venues as usual ? or does MIR-PRO 3D replace MIR-PRO ? 

Thanks


----------



## Zanshin (Jul 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> So, now I'm trying to decide which additional Room Pack I should get for Free
> Room Pack 4 The (Sage Gateshead) or 5 (Pernegg Monastery) ?
> 
> I'm leaning more toward 4 (The Sage Gateshead), but I'm not sure. Anyone have the Pernegg Monastery Room Pack 5 , how useful has it been ?


I like and use Pernegg a lot, it's beautiful. But do like @Ben said and get the bundle


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## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2022)

OK, so MIR PRO 3D, with the Room Pack Bundle is €312. (145 for MIR PRO 3D + €167 for the R.Pack Bundle). 

I will go for it.  

Thanks.


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## dunamisstudio (Jul 13, 2022)

I'm in the MIR 3D club now too. I got my upgrade for MIR 24 and Synchron and got the Teldex pack. I expect one day to get some OT stuff. I'll have to get Pernegg next since I have a lot of AIR stuff.


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## Zanshin (Jul 13, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> I'm in the MIR 3D club now too. I got my upgrade for MIR 24 and Synchron and got the Teldex pack. I expect one day to get some OT stuff. I'll have to get Pernegg next since I have a lot of AIR stuff.


Maybe demo Pernegg while that's an option and let me know what think? It's not an exact match but I feel like Pernegg has that same church-y enveloping reverb that Air has. But remember to change it to 2.5 secs length haha. I don't have a ton of Air stuff to compare (EWC, HZS, SF Appassionata...).


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## method1 (Jul 13, 2022)

Just joined the club! Lets see how a dry untuned memorymoog sounds in Synchron Stage!


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## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2022)

I'm Very Excited to try MIR-PRO 3D venues on Sample Modeling, and SWAM Instruments.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I'm Very Excited to try MIR-PRO 3D venues on Sample Modeling, and SWAM Instruments.


Can't speak for SWAM, but even the old MIR sounded amazing for Sample Modeling. MIR 3D sounds even better and works a lot better with @aaronventure libraries than old MIR as well.


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## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Can't speak for SWAM, but even the old MIR sounded amazing for Sample Modeling. MIR 3D sounds even better and works a lot better with @aaronventure libraries than old MIR as well.


Wow. That's great to know. Thanks for the positive feedback.


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## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2022)

@Trash Panda ,

You need some SWAM in your life


----------



## Trash Panda (Jul 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> @Trash Panda ,
> 
> You need some SWAM in your life


How convincing are the woodwinds?


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## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> How convincing are the woodwinds?


Did you listen to their demos/videos ? not convinced ? 

I will be putting them to the test in the coming days, I can post some audio demos so you can be the judge if they are worth getting. I will most likely use MIR-PRO 3D for the tests.

There was a very good sounding demo of the SWAM woodwinds posted on the forum a few days ago, I will try to post it here, or maybe you heard it.


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## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2022)

@Trash Panda ,

All of the woodwinds in this track are SWAM woodwinds.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 13, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Can you post some examples?
> 
> The VSL demos sound utterly artificial to me - like the instruments are just floating in midair.


Here are a few examples. No VSL as I haven't invested into the VI side of their ecosystem yet.

All MIR examples are using the standard Teldex venue with the same placement, room EQ, etc. Only processing was some minor EQ work to reduce problem frequencies specific to each VI. Dry/wet mix for each instrument was done by ear.

Berlin Woodwinds Oboe 1 with the tree mic was used as a baseline for comparison.

Berlin WW Oboe 1 Tree (Baseline):
View attachment FF7 Main Theme MIR Test - BWW Oboe 1 Tree.mp3


Berlin WW Soloist Oboe Spot 1 (45% Wet):
View attachment FF7 Main Theme MIR Test - BWWS Oboe Spot 1.mp3


Infinite Woodwinds Oboe 1 (all internal IRs removed, 100% Wet):
View attachment FF7 Main Theme MIR Test - IWW Oboe 1.mp3


Cinematic Studio Woodwinds Solo Oboe Close (60% Wet):
View attachment FF7 Main Theme MIR Test - CSW Oboe Close.mp3


AI Nucleus Solo Oboe Classic Mix (40% Wet):
View attachment FF7 Main Theme MIR Test - Nucleus Oboe Classic Mix.mp3


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## Trash Panda (Jul 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> @Trash Panda ,
> 
> All of the woodwinds in this track are SWAM woodwinds.



You're a bad influence.


----------



## heisenberg (Jul 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi MIR PRO 3D Fans,
> 
> I'm ready to Upgrade from MIR-Pro to MIR-PRO 3D. Upgrade price is €135.
> 
> ...


Since you have most of the Room Packs, is there not an inexpensive price to simply upgrade to the full bundle of the room packs?! As I have stated in previous threads on MIR Pro, I have found HallTwo from the Sage Gateshead Room Pack to be immanently useful for chamber setups. The secondary microphones as in all the Room Packs really adds to the intimacy & general acoustic of the HallTwo ambience.

The Monastery space is such a different beast, obviously. If you are going to score something like the work below, the Monastery would be the obvious choice...



EDIT:

Nevermind! I see you have figured out a reasonable cost for picking up the lot. Good for you.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2022)

heisenberg said:


> Since you have most of the Room Packs, is there not an inexpensive price to simply upgrade to the full bundle of the room packs?! As I have stated in previous threads on MIR Pro, I have found HallTwo from the Sage Gateshead Room Pack to be immanently useful for chamber setups. The secondary microphones as in all the Room Packs really adds to the intimacy & general acoustic of the HallTwo ambience.
> 
> The Monastery space is such a different beast, obviously. If you are going to score something like the work below, the Monastery would be the obvious choice...



Hi @heisenberg ,

Yes, I already purchased the MIR-Pro 3D upgrade from MIR-Pro, and got the Full Bundle Room Packs.

Thanks for the helpful feedback.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 13, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Here are a few examples. No VSL as I haven't invested into the VI side of their ecosystem yet.
> 
> All MIR examples are using the standard Teldex venue with the same placement, room EQ, etc. Only processing was some minor EQ work to reduce problem frequencies specific to each VI. Dry/wet mix for each instrument was done by ear.
> 
> ...


The Infinite WW Oboe 1 example illustrates 100% the problem - it's the same as the VSL demos: There's no room to be heard. The oboe is just floating in midair.


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## Dietz (Jul 13, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> The Infinite WW Oboe 1 example illustrates 100% the problem - it's the same as the VSL demos: There's no room to be heard. The oboe is just floating in midair.


Did you just listen to the demos, or actually _try_ the demo? It might very well be that you simply don't like the style of one or two demo arrangers.  There's not "the" sound of MIR.

... but it could also be that MIR just does not suit your taste, of course.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 14, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Did you just listen to the demos, or actually _try_ the demo? It might very well be that you simply don't like the style of one or two demo arrangers.  There's not "the" sound of MIR.
> 
> ... but it could also be that MIR just does not suit your taste, of course.


When I listen to samples that are recorded in a reverbant space such as Teldex, the instruments sound anchored/grounded - but this ”anchor-ness” is almost completely lacking in the MIR 3D examples. That’s the best way I can describe it.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 14, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Here are a few examples. No VSL as I haven't invested into the VI side of their ecosystem yet.
> 
> All MIR examples are using the standard Teldex venue with the same placement, room EQ, etc. Only processing was some minor EQ work to reduce problem frequencies specific to each VI. Dry/wet mix for each instrument was done by ear.
> 
> ...


Totally OT, but that Nucleus oboe sounds nice! You can almost hear the spit flying :-D


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## Trash Panda (Jul 14, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> The Infinite WW Oboe 1 example illustrates 100% the problem - it's the same as the VSL demos: There's no room to be heard. The oboe is just floating in midair.


I am not hearing a lack of room, but I'll trust your ears are better than mine. Maybe a little more dry signal helps?

Infinite WW Oboe 1 (70% wet):
View attachment FF7 Main Theme MIR Test - IWW Oboe 1 70% Mix.mp3


SOLO Oboe Spot 1 (60% wet):
View attachment FF7 Main Theme MIR Test - SOLO Oboe Spot 1.mp3


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## Zanshin (Jul 14, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I am not hearing a lack of room, but I'll trust your ears are better than mine. Maybe a little more dry signal helps?


I wonder if it's the source material. I have not tried Infinite in the new MIR 3D yet, but when I A-B'd after I read some comments by @FireGS regarding Infinite and MIR - I preferred the stock IRs to MIR.

To me - the Berlin WW Soloist in MIR 3D sounds the most "in situ" I've heard it sound, I feel like MIR 3D is doing a good job there.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 14, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I wonder if it's the source material. I have not tried Infinite in the new MIR 3D yet, but when I A-B'd after I read some comments by @FireGS regarding Infinite and MIR - I preferred the stock IRs to MIR.
> 
> To me - the Berlin WW Soloist in MIR 3D sounds the most "in situ" I've heard it sound, I feel like MIR 3D is doing a good job there.


It's also entirely possible that I'm not getting the mix levels or positioning offset properly as I get my feet wet with MIR for a proper comparison. One difference that might be helping the BWWS Oboe is the room information from the recording booth. Perhaps passing an ultra-dry signal through something similar for more ER information would help.


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## Zanshin (Jul 14, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> It's also entirely possible that I'm not getting the mix levels or positioning offset properly as I get my feet wet with MIR for a proper comparison. One difference that might be helping the BWWS Oboe is the room information from the recording booth. Perhaps passing an ultra-dry signal through something similar for more ER information would help.


Yeah like the "pure" sound coming out of Infinite with no IRs needs some additional treatment. The Teldex booth is probably close to the VSL silent stage setup.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 14, 2022)

That moment you realize your strings sound better in another room than your brass


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## Zanshin (Jul 14, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> That moment you realize your strings sound better in another room than your brass


Well at least that's easy to do with the MIR 3D tabbed rooms thinger hah.


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## Ziffles (Jul 14, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I am not hearing a lack of room, but I'll trust your ears are better than mine. Maybe a little more dry signal helps?
> 
> Infinite WW Oboe 1 (70% wet):
> View attachment FF7 Main Theme MIR Test - IWW Oboe 1 70% Mix.mp3
> ...


I think EQing the oboe before it goes in will help, because IW oboes have a lot poking out around 1.5k, and that'll just get amplified by MIR. I'm usually dipping at 1.5k even through the default IRs.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 14, 2022)

Ziffles said:


> I think EQing the oboe before it goes in will help, because IW oboe's have a lot poking out around 1.5k, and that'll just get amplified by MIR. I'm usually dipping at 1.5k even through the default IRs.


Ha! I actually raised it at 1.4k to get more nasal tone. 

Here it is using a reduction there instead.
View attachment FF7 Main Theme MIR Test - IWW Oboe 1 Distant EQ.mp3


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## ModalRealist (Jul 15, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Infinite Woodwinds Oboe 1 (all internal IRs removed, 100% Wet):


@Trash Panda do you mean using Studio close mic only? Or is there some way in which you bypass the entire convolution...?


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## ptram (Jul 15, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> SOLO Oboe Spot 1 (60% wet):
> View attachment FF7 Main Theme MIR Test - SOLO Oboe Spot 1.mp3


Compared to the reference real Teldex recording from OT, I find that here there is (a) still too much reverb, and a too long one, and (b) an unique spot mic may be too weak and unidimensional, so I would add a bit of the second spot mic as well in the source.

Paolo


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## Trash Panda (Jul 15, 2022)

ModalRealist said:


> @Trash Panda do you mean using Studio close mic only? Or is there some way in which you bypass the entire convolution...?


Switch to the Studio Venue, select the Soloist position and solo the Close mic. This disables all convolution (you can check the wrench screen to verify).



ptram said:


> Compared to the reference real Teldex recording from OT, I find that here there is (a) still too much reverb, and a too long one, and (b) an unique spot mic may be too weak and unidimensional, so I would add a bit of the second spot mic as well in the source.
> 
> Paolo


I'll give this a try. Thank you!


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## Casiquire (Jul 15, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @heisenberg ,
> 
> Yes, I already purchased the MIR-Pro 3D upgrade from MIR-Pro, and got the Full Bundle Room Packs.
> 
> Thanks for the helpful feedback.


I was going to suggest the same thing, which is probably the first time that it was going to be ME talking YOU into buying more stuff, so I'm sad we missed such a historical moment. But i think you'll enjoy it.

It was a smart move too as far as bang for your buck since you get a free pack and a cheap upgrade


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 15, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> LOL.
> 
> Technically they don't charge VAT to US customers, it's just that price is the same without VAT as when VAT is included.


Yea something is Amis about this right now. The exchange rate between USD and Euro is almost exactly 1:1 right now...but they are charging 10% more to buy it in USD...and I'm getting the same problem through Best Service now, which used to sell in USD with a reasonable exchange rate and no VAT added. However now they simply charge more for the USD version...which I am calling BS on...someone somewhere is doing something shady...


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## Casiquire (Jul 15, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Yea something is Amis about this right now. The exchange rate between USD and Euro is almost exactly 1:1 right now...but they are charging 10% more to buy it in USD...and I'm getting the same problem through Best Service now, which used to sell in USD with a reasonable exchange rate and no VAT added. However now they simply charge more for the USD version...which I am calling BS on...someone somewhere is doing something shady...


Wait, how do you even get to buy it in USD? The whole site is euros for me, and always has been


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 15, 2022)

Well I have always bought through Best Service for exactly that reason. Whenever I have tried to buy direct from VSL they charged me VAT even though I am not a resident of the EU. Also the last time I tried a few years ago, they could not accept my Amex card.

Best Service has always, until now, provided the price in USD, with a fair conversion rate...and no VAT charged..

However, this purchase did not work out that way, it appears that either Best Service is changing their policy, or so far they are telling me it has something to do with what VSL is forcing them to do so in some way...which is to charge a USD price of $158. 

Current exchange rate is almost exactly 1:1 (off by a penny)...so there is no reasonable explanation for this discrepancy other then VAT is being hidden inside a more expensive USD price, or some other unfair surcharge in order to purchase in USD and avoid VAT. 

It used to be worth a little extra hassle to buy from Best Service just to avoid the VAT. Frankly I would have preferred to buy directly from VSL in order that VSL can keep the whole markup. But not since VSL has insisted on charging VAT. 

In any case, this has always worked out better in the past to buy through Best Service in order to avoid the VAT, but now it seems that SOMEONE somewhere is imposing an extra 10% surcharge on the USD pricing...which is probably just another hidden way to charge Vat that shouldn't be charged. At this point, BestService is not a good alternative since its more hassle then buying direct and I'd rather give VSL all the money too, but I'm still not happy for them or Best Service for charging me an extra 10% that I should not have to pay for European taxes.


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## Daren Audio (Jul 15, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Yea something is Amis about this right now. The exchange rate between USD and Euro is almost exactly 1:1 right now...but they are charging 10% more to buy it in USD...and I'm getting the same problem through Best Service now, which used to sell in USD with a reasonable exchange rate and no VAT added. However now they simply charge more for the USD version...which I am calling BS on...someone somewhere is doing something shady..


I believe BestService hasn't properly configured their system to remove the "VAT" or 10% tax for MIR Pro. It works if you add any other VSL product and the VAT gets deducted.

I'd hold off buying until we get clarification (I sent an email but that probably won't get a response until Monday).

Note: Ilio charges the same rate (as a US vendor).


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 15, 2022)

I already made the purchase with Best Service and so this time I am just eating the extra $13 and not going to worry about it, but unless I get a better explanation about what exactly is going on I will not be using that approach again. 

So far they have told me its out of their control and has something to do with VSL's web based ordering system which they also have to use from their end to place the order. I was told there is a euro price (145) and a USD price (158). No reasonable explanation about why the USD price would be higher, especially in light of the fact that USD is currently 1.01 per euro conversion rate.

How much is Ilio charging? Main problem with US vendors is that they will charge you some kind of state sales tax probably. I usually buy US software from Best Service...because...then you get it for USD price, no extra markup and no tax of any kind. Any kind of download software, if BestService sells it...its going to work out best price, excluding sales, etc.. Used to be the case for VSL in the past also, but it appears something has changed in the sales chain....fas as I can see...VAT is being charged to USD customers under the covers...but we'll see if we ever get a better answer.


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## DaddyO (Jul 15, 2022)

When I checked out Best Service a few days ago for MIR Pro 3D it became immediately clear that at this time buying direct from VSL is suddenly the better alternative. It looks like VSL is clamping down on cheaper end runs.


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## blaggins (Jul 15, 2022)

@Dewdman42 I've noticed the same pricing discrepancy and asked Best Service about it. They told me they get their prices from VSL. But unfortunately instead of them being discounted by the amount of VAT (that us folk in the USA are not supposed to have to pay) they are instead *more* expensive than the VAT inclusive VSL prices. I asked about it in the Deals post here https://vi-control.net/community/threads/up-to-26-off-synchron-ized-libraries.127435/post-5144235

This also means that any vouchers I've got from Best Service are worth less than I was lead to believe they would be...


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## Daren Audio (Jul 15, 2022)

Ilio is based in Los Angeles, California but charge the same as Best Service.
In general, CA doesn't collect sales tax for digital downloads but other states may. 

Right now VSL has the best overall pricing so that maybe the way forward. 







BestService pricing is the same as Ilio.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 15, 2022)

tpoots said:


> @Dewdman42 I've noticed the same pricing discrepancy and asked Best Service about it. They told me they get their prices from VSL. But unfortunately instead of them being discounted by the amount of VAT (that us folk in the USA are not supposed to have to pay) they are instead *more* expensive than the VAT inclusive VSL prices. I asked about it in the Deals post here https://vi-control.net/community/threads/up-to-26-off-synchron-ized-libraries.127435/post-5144235
> 
> This also means that any vouchers I've got from Best Service are worth less than I was lead to believe they would be...


I have a lot of Best Service vouchers also. Its not that big of a deal I will use them up or sell them eventually...I think the price will be the same as from VSL after they add VAT, but its arguably a more complicated process compared to buying direct from VSL...

and also I would honestly prefer for VSL to get all the markup rather then a dealer in the middle. The only reason for using Best Service was to avoid VAT and to use my Amex card to pay for it. 
Ok...bestcoins sometimes help a little bit. 

Anyway, I'll still use my Best Service vouchers...it just means we are stuck paying some kind of premium price to pay in USD, its very strange. On top of it all, the vouchers are actually in Euros. So it doesn't make sense that Best Service would be using the higher USD price to pay using Euro vouchers. There is something shady going on there. 

Its possible VSL has dictated some higher USD price for all USA dealers (and Best Service) to use if they want to sell in USD...but that is a REALLY bad deal if you pay that much at Ilio or Sweetwater because you will be also adding state sales tax on top of that!


----------



## Petrucci (Jul 16, 2022)

Anybody had MIR Pro 3d 24 shutting down unexpectedly when clicking on Choose Venue?? Happens every time in Logic unfortunately, so I can't hear my new shiny MIR..!


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## Dietz (Jul 17, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> Anybody had MIR Pro 3d 24 shutting down unexpectedly when clicking on Choose Venue?? Happens every time in Logic unfortunately, so I can't hear my new shiny MIR..!


Please get in contact with [email protected] and include all necessary repro steps. The VSL-team will look into it ASAP.

Thanks!


----------



## Petrucci (Jul 17, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Please get in contact with [email protected] and include all necessary repro steps. The VSL-team will look into it ASAP.
> 
> Thanks!


Thanks a lot! Yes, I wrote them yesterday, hope that it's not because of my old Mac with old Mac OS (still on High Sierra).


----------



## Gil (Jul 18, 2022)

Hello,
I own RoomPack 1 (Vienna KonzertHaus) and 6 (Synchron Stage): what free RoomPack would you add to them? I was thinking of the 2 (Studios & Sound Stages)...
Music type: classical/film/crossover with a choir (including a rock band or a rock singer).
VIs:
- VSL: Cube, Dimension Strings and Brass, almost all Synchron-ized, quite all Synchron
- BBC SO Pro
- Eric Whitacre Choir
- HOOPUS
- Hollywood Choirs Platinum

Thanks for your advices!

Best regards,
Gil.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 18, 2022)

Gil said:


> Hello,
> I own RoompPack 1 (Vienna KonzertHaus) and 6 (Synchron Stage): what free RoomPack would you add to them? I was thinking of the 2 (Studios & Sound Stages)...
> Music type: classical/film/crossover with a choir (including a rock band or a rock singer).
> VIs:
> ...


I'd go with 2. It not only has Teldex as a alternative to Synchron stage, it also has some smaller studios to choose from for a more intimate setting or for ensemble stuff. I think that with 1, 2 and 6 you've got 95% of the situations covered.


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## Casiquire (Jul 18, 2022)

Gil said:


> Hello,
> I own RoompPack 1 (Vienna KonzertHaus) and 6 (Synchron Stage): what free RoomPack would you add to them? I was thinking of the 2 (Studios & Sound Stages)...
> Music type: classical/film/crossover with a choir (including a rock band or a rock singer).
> VIs:
> ...


I also vote roompack 2. Some of the small stages might not sound immediately flattering to every style of music, but having a couple very dry rooms is very useful for positioning instruments or adding one more layer of reflections for a very dry sound source. The Teldex stage just sounds fantastic as it is. The whole pack can get you pretty far


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## Petrucci (Jul 18, 2022)

Gil said:


> Hello,
> I own RoomPack 1 (Vienna KonzertHaus) and 6 (Synchron Stage): what free RoomPack would you add to them? I was thinking of the 2 (Studios & Sound Stages)...
> Music type: classical/film/crossover with a choir (including a rock band or a rock singer).
> VIs:
> ...



If the backbone of your writing is Synchron I would get RP6, if not then RP2 or Sage one, it's very good.


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## Dr.Quest (Jul 19, 2022)

Sounds like Room Pack 2 is considered a good general pack to have. Any other favorites? I'm just trialing right now and MIR is all new to me. The Gateshead Sage Halls are sounding quite interesting right now.


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## muziksculp (Jul 19, 2022)

Hi MIR 3D Fans  

I haven't had the chance to install my MIR-PRO 3D and the 3D venues yet. 

Questions for those who have the same venue for both MIR-Pro and MIR Pro 3D, are you keeping the MIR-Pro venue, or do you feel MIR-PRO 3D does a much better job, that you can delete the MIR-Pro venue to free up some SSD space ? 

Thanks.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 19, 2022)

Dr.Quest said:


> Sounds like Room Pack 2 is considered a good general pack to have. Any other favorites? I'm just trialing right now and MIR is all new to me. The Gateshead Sage Halls are sounding quite interesting right now.


I like the Vienna Konzerthaus a lot for a more classical piece. It, in combination with the new Surround to Stereo downmix options really make a few of my libraries come alive like they never had before.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 19, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi MIR 3D Fans
> 
> I haven't had the chance to install my MIR-PRO 3D and the 3D venues yet.
> 
> ...


A good thing that VSL made the choice for you: you cannot use the old MIR venue files in MIR 3D, that's why they "offer" the upgrade for roompacks you already have for $25 a pop, unless you have them all and the upgrade is free. So you have no choice... You can also not run MIRPro and MIR Pro 3D side by side on one system.


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## Ben (Jul 19, 2022)

Dr.Quest said:


> Sounds like Room Pack 2 is considered a good general pack to have. Any other favorites? I'm just trialing right now and MIR is all new to me. The Gateshead Sage Halls are sounding quite interesting right now.


Depending on the amount of instruments you are using at the same time I also really enjoy Maria Strassengel (Mystic Spaces): This one is perfect if you have a smaller group. Most of the times I dial back the reverberation time quite a bit with this one.
If you don't need this sound that often you can also try using the Konzerthaus Foyer from RoomPack 1 instead - also with shortened reverb time.


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## muziksculp (Jul 19, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> A good thing that VSL made the choice for you: you cannot use the old MIR venue files in MIR 3D, that's why they "offer" the upgrade for roompacks you already have for $25 a pop, unless you have them all and the upgrade is free. So you have no choice... You can also not run MIRPro and MIR Pro 3D side by side on one system.


I'm aware of that. But I'm curious if I still will benefit by keeping my MIR Pro venues on my SSD, or just delete them, and use MIR PRO 3D instead of MIR Pro.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 19, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I'm aware of that. But I'm curious if I still will benefit by keeping my MIR Pro venues on my SSD, or just delete them, and use MIR PRO 3D instead of MIR Pro.


You won't because you can't use them anymore.


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## muziksculp (Jul 19, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> You won't because you can't use them anymore.


You mean I can't use MIR Pro venues with MIR Pro. (Not MIR Pro 3D). Just double checking.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 19, 2022)

From the sounds of it, both plugins cannot coexist on the same machine at the same time. MirPro3D has specifically been designed to be able to open older projects that used MirPro...those same projects will open using MirPro3D and operate..though I have heard rumors that there are sonic differences.


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## muziksculp (Jul 19, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> From the sounds of it, both plugins cannot coexist on the same machine at the same time. MirPro3D has specifically been designed to be able to open older projects that used MirPro...those same projects will open using MirPro3D and operate..though I have heard rumors that there are sonic differences.


I see. So, should I uninstall MIR Pro and it's venues using the VSL Assistant app., before installing MIR PRO 3D and its new Venues ?


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 19, 2022)

I don't think I did anything like that I just installed MirPro3D and it over wrote the old one. I did manually remove the old Roompacks to save some space.


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## muziksculp (Jul 19, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> I don't think I did anything like that I just installed MirPro3D and it over wrote the old one. I did manually remove the old Roompacks to save some space.


OK. Thanks for the helpful feedback @Dewdman42  

I will do the same here.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 19, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I see. So, should I uninstall MIR Pro and it's venues using the VSL Assistant app., before installing MIR PRO 3D and its new Venues ?


Dietz commented on one of my posts that MIR Pro and MIR Pro 3D cannot coexist on the same machine. Also, the old room packs are not compatible with MIR Pro 3D. So you need to uninstall the MIR Pro software before you install MIR Pro 3D. With this change, the old room packs become obsolete and you can remove them.

I didn't uninstall MIR Pro first and it caused the MIR Pro 3D installer to fail.


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## muziksculp (Jul 19, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Dietz commented on one of my posts that MIR Pro and MIR Pro 3D cannot coexist on the same machine. Also, the old room packs are not compatible with MIR Pro 3D. So you need to uninstall the MIR Pro software before you install MIR Pro 3D. With this change, the old room packs become obsolete and you can remove them.
> 
> I didn't uninstall MIR Pro first and it caused the MIR Pro 3D installer to fail.


OK. Thanks for the helpful feedback. @Marcus Millfield  

Will do.


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## Dietz (Jul 19, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> With this change, the old room packs become obsolete and you can remove them.


You can, but you _don't have to_ remove the old RoomPacks. If you plan to roll back to legacy MIR Pro for one reason or the other at some point, you will be able to do this by simply uninstalling/reinstalling only the plug-in then.


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## Zanshin (Jul 19, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> ... combination with the new Surround to Stereo downmix options really make a few of my libraries come alive like they never had before.


Hah! I am very happy you think so too. I felt a bit guilty nudging you to try it, but also I know you are invested in the Syz-VI universe as I am so ...


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## synergy543 (Jul 19, 2022)

What OS are you Mac guys running? I'm still on Mojave (Hacintosh + MacPro2013s) and thinking of upgrading before setting up MIR 3D as I need the SSD drive space for both upgrading and downloading more VSL software. Seems like the Montery chicken should come before the MIR 3d egg? Or should I back off to Catalina? (or whatever the previous one was) Any caveats or suggestions?


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## Leigh (Jul 19, 2022)

Ben said:


> If you don't need this sound that often you can also try using the Konzerthaus Foyer from RoomPack 1 instead - also with shortened reverb time.


Hey @Ben, I tried the Foyer with a 2.4 S time for a short string quartet and it works really well! Thanks for the suggestion!

**Leigh


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## Petrucci (Jul 19, 2022)

Do you guys keep Roompacks on SSD or HDD?? I used to keep em on HDD for MIR, but 3D ones are larger..! Still can't run MIR 3D unfortunately, shuts down on Select Venue stage, hope support will help me somehow or I'll have to return to good old MIR untill it resolves somehow.


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## Leigh (Jul 19, 2022)

All my VSL stuff is on SSD.

**Leigh


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## bvaughn0402 (Jul 19, 2022)

Has anyone seen a comparison between Mir Pro and Inspirata?


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 19, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Hah! I am very happy you think so too. I felt a bit guilty nudging you to try it, but also I know you are invested in the Syz-VI universe as I am so ...


Oh, don't feel guilty, I was just being a grumpy old man with a "get of my lawn!" attitude that day. Those downmixes together with the other room I'm trying (Konzerthaus) really make a lot of difference, especially for VI chamber strings. I didn't like the sound of that library at Synchron Stage, but the Konzerthaus and downmix mic setup really takes the "raw" edge of some transitions without removing the detail completely which makes all the difference for me.


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## Dr.Quest (Jul 19, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> What OS are you Mac guys running? I'm still on Mojave (Hacintosh + MacPro2013s) and thinking of upgrading before setting up MIR 3D as I need the SSD drive space for both upgrading and downloading more VSL software. Seems like the Montery chicken should come before the MIR 3d egg? Or should I back off to Catalina? (or whatever the previous one was) Any caveats or suggestions?


I'm running Catalina on an older iMac and have had no problem other then the fans kicking on sometimes. I can usually close other unneeded apps to alleviate that. Cubase 12 and MIR so far not any issues.


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## Dietz (Jul 19, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> Do you guys keep Roompacks on SSD or HDD??


It's just a question of loading time. There's no streaming involved with MIR itself. It loads the IRs triggered by the combination of the source (i.e. the MIR Icon) in respect to Venue / mic positions / output format as soon as you drop that Icon on a stage somewhere. 

Given the fact that 3D RoomPacks rely on 3rd Order Ambisonics makes loading more time-consuming than it was with the comparably small 1st Order legacy RoomPacks. Mind you, 1st Order ist "just" 4 channels, while we are handling 16 channels for a single IR in 3rd Order (... and MIR uses 8 of them to create a mono source 8-) ...). An SSD might come handy, therefore.

BTW: There is a little-known option in MIR's Preferences since ages called "Impulse Response Cache". This can speed-up things when you work on a new project or template, because it keeps IR data of a certain position loaded in RAM as long as possible once it was called up, making every subsequent call of that position much faster. ... it won't affect the initial loading time, though.


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## welltempered (Jul 20, 2022)

Hello good folks:

I’d appreciate your thoughts on which free roompack to get with my upgrade to 3D. (And congrats to @Dietz and his team - I've been following the gestation of this baby for quite a while!)

I’m a VI newbie writing music that combines Synchron instruments (I own all the core libraries) with audio files from dry studio recordings of various individual instruments that I place onto the Synchron Stage using the Synchron Stage Roompack 6 (the only roompack I currently own).

The style I write is classical-based and leans towards the contrapuntal. I anticipate that my pieces over time would use orchestration that varies in size from mid-sized chamber to symphonic (though not large Hollywood).

Ideally the free roompack I get should have the following:


When I place audio signals into it from my dry studio recordings, it should combine reasonably well with Synchron instruments that are of course not in MIR (for now, I don’t plan to buy additional core libraries outside the Synchron ecosystem). 
It would include a smaller venue for classical-type music (as a contrast to the Synchron Stage).

The Teldex package seems to be a popular choice in general, but perhaps I should have the Mozartsaal (in RoomPack 1) instead as a chamber venue (I’ve read that it accommodates larger chamber groups which would be perfect for me). But the bigger question may be which one is likely to combine better with Synchron instruments.

I don’t need to overthink this since it’s a freebie after all, but any quick thoughts would be welcome.


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## cloudrunner92 (Jul 20, 2022)

Hi there, I find the concept of MIR quite fascinating and I've been wondering if anyone out there uses it for any non-orchestral music, be it pop, rock, metal or something else. Are we too used to hearing close-up studio sounds, possibly with a long artificial reverb tail to appreciate "more realistic" spatialization in these genres? I was curious how, for example, thick vocal harmonies in a pop song would sound through MIR vs just panned and with a regular reverb. Is there any advantage in doing this? Maybe it's all just a matter of taste? So many questions. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? 😊


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## Dietz (Jul 20, 2022)

cloudrunner92 said:


> Hi there, I find the concept of MIR quite fascinating and I've been wondering if anyone out there uses it for any non-orchestral music, be it pop, rock, metal or something else. Are we too used to hearing close-up studio sounds, possibly with a long artificial reverb tail to appreciate "more realistic" spatialization in these genres? I was curious how, for example, thick vocal harmonies in a pop song would sound through MIR vs just panned and with a regular reverb. Is there any advantage in doing this? Maybe it's all just a matter of taste? So many questions. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? 😊


Personally, I use MIR for pretty much any style I'm asked to mix (... mixing music is my main business). A while back I put together a small showcase playlist on Spotify, containing a wild selection of acts I've had the honour to work for, some of them internationally known, others rather eclectic. The common denominator is that all of these mixes made massive use of MIR Pro (and lots of other stuff, of course). ->



... I am aware that not everyone will like every track, but that's not the point.


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## sound team apk (Jul 22, 2022)

This is the second time I've demoed MIR. It's great, and it does what I currently (attempt to) do with a chain of plugins. I wish I'd bought it a long time ago instead of this other stuff. But I didn't, and now I'm once again wondering if I need (or deserve) it given everything else I have that I'm not skilled enough to use.

MIR sounds excellent in my AB tests, but the sound quality improvement over my existing plugins seems subtle at naive first glance rather than transformative. Something that would just handle all of my dry libraries in a single workflow seems really appealing, but maybe not enough to justify the investment?

Someone like @Trash Panda who seems to be really into MIR despite already having plenty of reverbs: do you have any advice or thoughts on what makes it stand out to you?


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 22, 2022)

sound team apk said:


> and now I'm once again wondering if I need (or deserve) it given everything else I have that I'm not skilled enough to use.



If you aren't skilled enough to use the tools you bought, then you bought the wrong tools.

one of the beautiful things about MirPro is that you can get stuff positioned on the stage very easily and apply intuitive controls that make sense from a musical engineering point of view...rather then a deep plugin perspective. With plugins you will making your head spin trying to figure out ER patterns, widening tricks, EQ tricks to make things sound further away, etc.. All of those things just happen automatically with MirPro..not to mention that you get real rooms..not some algorithmic recreation of a fantasy room.

Now...for those good with the plugins..they can get some amazing sound without MirPro..and perhaps their fantasy sound is even better. Certainly they will probably say so. But MirPro is just more intuitive for the rest of us. It still takes a little learning to understand how to use it, but its nothing compared to using traditional panning and other plugins to attempt to create a realistic sounding stage.

Most people that complain about MirPro's sound, didn't take the time to really learn it, and/or they are comparing the sound to libraries that have the room baked in and are just super easy to use, as long as that is the room and orchestra config you are happy with. MirPro is like a happy medium, its not as easy as burned in libs, but its definitely something that any one of us can learn how to use and get decent results with a very wide range of options for the room sound and ensemble or orchestra makeup.

MirPro3D is not inexpensive, especially if you are using any VePro slaves. but I personally think it is simply remarkable technology, there is nothing else like it. For dry libraries...MirPro is king.

But I have also heard some incredible sounding results by using other tools...if are up for learning how to do that...then why not...I don't think MirPro will necessarily give a magically better sound compared to those other approaches IF you are skilled in how to do it. There are plenty of excellent sounding orchestra mixes happening out there without MirPro. There are also top shelf movies being made with MirPro.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 22, 2022)

sound team apk said:


> Someone like @Trash Panda who seems to be really into MIR despite already having plenty of reverbs: do you have any advice or thoughts on what makes it stand out to you?


MIR is EZ mode. Pick a venue to match to [library name here] from the list, position, tweak a few sliders and move on with life.


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## muziksculp (Jul 22, 2022)




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## sound team apk (Jul 22, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> If you aren't skilled enough to use the tools you bought, then you bought the wrong tools.


I should clarify: I have some faith that I can get good results out of the tools I have, which is part of my hesitation. And to some extent I even enjoy trying to bend plugins to my will. But I also don't have any illusions about becoming a mixing expert anytime soon.

The "lack of skill" refers more to my concern that I already have better tools than the quality of my music can justify, so I'm trying to keep myself honest.

On the other hand:


Trash Panda said:


> MIR is EZ mode. Pick a venue to match to [library name here] from the list, position, tweak a few sliders and move on with life.


Yes. There's something to be said for a tool that just does what you want, once you realize that you want it all the time. 

Both of these responses were very helpful. Thanks!


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 22, 2022)

you can also use some of the tools you bought....(and your skills), together with MirPro..there is no rule saying it has to be all one or the other.


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## ModalRealist (Jul 23, 2022)

How do you approach selecting source material to feed Mir and mixing it in? I’ve been finding that close mic sources often have high frequency content that tends to get picked up and amplified by Mir, especially at high dynamic levels, creating very harsh, almost metallic, resonance.

I love the sound of Mir itself - nothing I’ve ever used has created such a believable sense of spatiality, it’s amazing - but if I can’t better figure out what source material works well, and/or if there is some mixing approach I should be taking to help, I can’t justify it.

Does anyone have advice? Should I try mixing in some entirely non-Mir signal (not just Mir dry)? Has anyone had success using slightly roomier signals with Mir and if so how do you approach that (I guess the silent stage recordings are, after all, not bone dry)?

Just to give some audio context, here is my attempt at placing some brass with my Synchron Strings in unison. On speakers with good spatial reproduction, the Mir version has fantastic spatiality to it, but as you can hear there’s a lot of colouration compared to the non-Mir version (which has had a tiny tiny bit of room mic mixed into it, and the some Seventh Heaven). If anyone has suggestions, I’d love to hear them!

Mir Version:


Non-Mir Version:


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## Ben (Jul 23, 2022)

ModalRealist said:


> How do you approach selecting source material to feed Mir and mixing it in? I’ve been finding that close mic sources often have high frequency content that tends to get picked up and amplified by Mir, especially at high dynamic levels, creating very harsh, almost metallic, resonance.
> 
> I love the sound of Mir itself - nothing I’ve ever used has created such a believable sense of spatiality, it’s amazing - but if I can’t better figure out what source material works well, and/or if there is some mixing approach I should be taking to help, I can’t justify it.
> 
> ...



Usually you want to have some room coloration of your original sound, that's what makes rooms special.
If it's too much I would first try these two options:

1. If the sound source has too harsh resonances on its own, use the "Character EQ" in the "Assignment section





2. If you are happy with the dry signal and only want to tweak the frequencies of the reverb use the Room EQ, and make sure to set the Room Group EQ for each sound source correctly (you can have separate EQs for different sound sources, or share the same EQ by assigning the same EQ group)


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## JTB (Jul 23, 2022)

What would be extremely useful is if when we load a Venue preset, each instruments can have an entire FX rack loaded with it. Because everyone tweaks sounds with EQ's to suit the room. But when we load a Venue preset, we have to load all our EQ's with it. Maybe VSL could smash out a quick update?.


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## Dietz (Jul 23, 2022)

JTB said:


> What would be extremely useful is if when we load a Venue preset, each instruments can have an entire FX rack loaded with it. Because everyone tweaks sounds with EQ's to suit the room. But when we load a Venue preset, we have to load all our EQ's with it. Maybe VSL could smash out a quick update?.


It's more or less like that in Vienna Ensemble, which can be considered the "full" version of MIR anyway. 

... at least in respect to virtual instruments.


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## Karmand (Jul 23, 2022)

After one of the updates recently - I have to say the *new* MIRacle Reverb is 'better'? Huh? Not sure but I placed it on a piano that I love and this reverb is as smooth as smooth can be. Nice work, easy to use and great sounding.


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## Ben (Jul 23, 2022)

Karmand said:


> After one of the updates recently - I have to say the *new* MIRacle Reverb is 'better'? Huh? Not sure but I placed it on a piano that I love and this reverb is as smooth as smooth can be. Nice work, easy to use and great sounding.


Yes, not only the GUI but also the algorithms of MIRacle are completely new. This was necassary to also support 3D formats. And the new algorithm also sounds better compared to the previous version


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## JTB (Jul 23, 2022)

Dietz said:


> It's more or less like that in Vienna Ensemble, which can be considered the "full" version of MIR anyway.
> 
> ... at least in respect to virtual instruments.


¿Qué? 
So does VEP offer a function that allows us to insert our preferred effects into a Role inside MIR Pro so when we load a Venue preset those effects are loaded with that instruments new Role?.


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## Dietz (Jul 23, 2022)

Not quite, but you can save/load/copy/paste individual or sets of channels including effects there, including MIR and its settings.  It doesn't matter whether (say) an EQ is actually pre- or post-convolution _within_ MIR or outside of it.

... I agree that it would be nice to make MIR 3D some kind of "Uber host", but I'm afraid that's not going to happen anytime soon.


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## sound team apk (Jul 23, 2022)

ModalRealist said:


> How do you approach selecting source material to feed Mir and mixing it in? I’ve been finding that close mic sources often have high frequency content that tends to get picked up and amplified by Mir, especially at high dynamic levels, creating very harsh, almost metallic, resonance.
> 
> I love the sound of Mir itself - nothing I’ve ever used has created such a believable sense of spatiality, it’s amazing - but if I can’t better figure out what source material works well, and/or if there is some mixing approach I should be taking to help, I can’t justify it.


Are you in a position to compare your sources to any VI or Synchronized libraries? Recalling that Silent Stage actually has a decent amount of room information, I played with this a bit earlier. I decided to try to match SM and Infinite trombones to the MIR Unprocessed preset of Dimension Brass, because obviously MIR handles that beautifully. Then Dimension Brass "solo" instruments have bleed from other sections, so it's hard to compare directly, but it was still interesting. I also tried some with the Synchronized Clarinet vs. the Infinite clarinet.

I think with brass I preferred adding some room information (carefully avoiding too much tail) before hitting MIR to avoid too up-front a sound. In Infinite I ended up liking studio mic mix 1, center position (not soloist), 50-70% wet into MIR. With the clarinet there seemed to be less of a difference. This is all newbie experimentation one shouldn't take seriously, but I'm sharing in case I gave you an idea to try before you give up.


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## Dietz (Jul 23, 2022)

Great experiments, @sound team apk, and thanks for sharing, but: 



sound team apk said:


> 50-70% wet.


... and especially ...


sound team apk said:


> MIR Teldex ~75%



8-0 ... that's quite wet, isn't it? Is this with "Distance Dependent Scaling" of the dry signal set to OFF or to ON? 

FWIW, I rarely have to go beyond 60% wet in "Classic" mode for anything else than special effects or high percussions like triangles etc. before things start to get blurry.


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## sound team apk (Jul 23, 2022)

Dietz said:


> ... and especially ...
> 
> 
> 8-0 ... that's quite wet, isn't it? Is this with "Distance Dependent Scaling" of the dry signal set to OFF or to ON?



On.



Dietz said:


> FWIW, I rarely have to go beyond 60% wet in "Classic" mode for anything else than special effects or high percussions like triangles etc. before things start to get blurry.


Thanks for questioning my choices. It was warranted 

I removed / edited most of my original post just before you left yours, because there were too many variables and I lost confidence in what I was doing after a while. I started suspecting that the bleed in Dimension Brass might be tricking me into wetter mixes than I otherwise would have chosen.

Now comparing my Infinite Studio Mix 1 thing to Berlin Brass's tree mic, ~55% wet is doing the trick. My ears still think they like SM more towards 70%, but they're pretty tired of comparing trombones by now.

Regardless of the correct wetness, I do think I've had consistently more success so far with the brass when I add a bit of room information to the otherwise bone-dry sources, but perhaps I'll find that I can gain the same improvements directly in MIR once I get to know it better.


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## Ben (Jul 23, 2022)

sound team apk said:


> Regardless of the correct wetness, I still think I prefer (so far) a source with a bit of room information compared to a totally bone-dry, close source.


As long as it sounds good it's right.
Try going a little bit more dry in MIR compared to what you want to get and/or shorten the reverb time a little bit. In the mix bus add MIRacle or another algorithmic reverb - it will get the nice algorithmic tail without loosing too much detail.


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## Zanshin (Jul 23, 2022)

Ben said:


> As long as it sounds good it's right.
> Try going a little bit more dry in MIR compared to what you want to get and/or shorten the reverb time a little bit. In the mix bus add MIRacle or another algorithmic reverb - it will get the nice algorithmic tail without loosing too much detail.


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## Dr.Quest (Jul 23, 2022)

Since I am new to the MIR 3D thing I was wondering if you use other not dry libraries in MIR. While I have some VSL libraries, I'm not using any in my current project. I have several Spitfire, Sonokinetic, etc. that I set for Close or Decca tree mic with all internal instrument reverb set to off. I think it's sounding quite nice. Also adding a bit of MIRacle on the main Bus.
Is it common to use the more than totally dry libraries in MIR? I love the spacing as it is so different than just panning.


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## FireGS (Jul 23, 2022)

Dr.Quest said:


> Since I am new to the MIR 3D thing I was wondering if you use other not dry libraries in MIR. While I have some VSL libraries, I'm not using any in my current project. I have several Spitfire, Sonokinetic, etc. that I set for Close or Decca tree mic with all internal instrument reverb set to off. I think it's sounding quite nice.
> Is it common to use the more than totally dry libraries in MIR? I love the spacing as it is so different than just panning.


You *can*, but I wouldn't.

EDIT: If you want to use MIR simply for the panning, turn that instruments wet/dry ratio to 0% wet, and it'll just use the panning information <3


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## Dietz (Jul 24, 2022)

Dr.Quest said:


> I love the spacing as it is so different than just panning.





FireGS said:


> If you want to use MIR simply for the panning, turn that instruments wet/dry ratio to 0% wet, and it'll just use the panning information <3


^^^^^^^^^^ This, or simply use the "Dry Solo" button at the bottom of the Output Panel. As Venue I'd use a studio with the possibility to position sources everywhere around the Main Mic and very short reverb times (eg. ORF Studio 2). Otherwise MIR 3D would need more RAM than necessary, because it will load the respective IRs in any case.

_Fun fact: I had a concept paper in my drawer years ago to create a spin-of product of MIR, a panning-only device called "AmbiPan" (i.e. MIR without IRs). However, it didn't gain any interest within the company. But great ideas resonate with the universe , so just a few years later a French manufacturer came up with a product carrying the very same name - based on a different concept, of course. It became 3D-savvy too, in the meantime! _


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## Dr.Quest (Jul 24, 2022)

FireGS said:


> You *can*, but I wouldn't.


Please explain why. Thanks.


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## Casiquire (Jul 24, 2022)

Dr.Quest said:


> Please explain why. Thanks.


For me, a very wet source has sound coming from all sides and angles because of the heavy reverb of the room, and it doesn't sound right to squash all of that down to a narrowly panned sound and send it through a new reverb. Let your ears be the final judge but that tends to be my experience


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## Trash Panda (Jul 24, 2022)

Dietz said:


> As Venue I'd use a studio with the possibility to position sources everywhere around the Main Mic and very short reverb times (eg. ORF Studio 2). Otherwise MIR 3D would need more RAM than necessary, because it will load the respective IRs in any case.


Would it make more sense to have no venue loaded in a tab if doing dry panning?


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## FireGS (Jul 24, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Would it make more sense to have no venue loaded in a tab if doing dry panning?


No, because even no venue has some sort of a sound to it. If I recall correctly, there is actually a "pseudo" room called "Default" that loads on MIR start.


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## Dr.Quest (Jul 24, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> For me, a very wet source has sound coming from all sides and angles because of the heavy reverb of the room, and it doesn't sound right to squash all of that down to a narrowly panned sound and send it through a new reverb. Let your ears be the final judge but that tends to be my experience


I'm not using anything that is very wet. Close mics sound fairly dry. But I am cutting the MIR balance on those down to 10-12%. It was sounding good to me.


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## Dietz (Jul 24, 2022)

FireGS said:


> No, because even no venue has some sort of a sound to it.


The sound of silence!


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## Trash Panda (Jul 24, 2022)

FireGS said:


> No, because even no venue has some sort of a sound to it. If I recall correctly, there is actually a "pseudo" room called "Default" that loads on MIR start.


Sorry. I meant loading no venue with dry solo on. 🙂


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## FireGS (Jul 24, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Sorry. I meant loading no venue with dry solo on. 🙂


Ah, in that case, it should be the same as any room. Pretty sure the IRs are unloaded when dry solo is on.


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## Ben (Jul 24, 2022)

FireGS said:


> Ah, in that case, it should be the same as any room. Pretty sure the IRs are unloaded when dry solo is on.


They are being calculated and stay in memory. You can also shorten reverb length to make the IRs in memory faster to calculate.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 24, 2022)

FireGS said:


> Ah, in that case, it should be the same as any room. Pretty sure the IRs are unloaded when dry solo is on.


Dietz just said above to load a small venue to minimize RAM usage, so I was wondering if loading no venue and leaving it to the default void would be better?


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## FireGS (Jul 24, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Dietz just said above to load a small venue to minimize RAM usage.


I meant in terms of sound, not ram.


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## Dietz (Jul 24, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Sorry. I meant loading no venue with dry solo on. 🙂


There's no way to "load no Venue" in MIR. That's not how it works.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 24, 2022)

Dietz said:


> There's no way to "load no Venue" in MIR. That's not how it works.


So the default is still an IR?


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## Dietz (Jul 24, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> So the default is still an IR?


Yes, one position from Vienna Konzerthaus - Great Hall. The yellow-ish "HotSpot" overlay shows that you can't have active Icons outside this small area.


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## fakemaxwell (Jul 24, 2022)

Dietz said:


> FWIW, I rarely have to go beyond 60% wet in "Classic" mode for anything else than special effects or high percussions like triangles etc. before things start to get blurry.


Is this with Silent Stage instruments? I find that with the truly dry modeled instruments (Sample Modeling, SWAM) pushing up into the 70%+ can be necessary to get it to sound "in the room." But you have much more experience with MIR haha.


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## Dietz (Jul 24, 2022)

fakemaxwell said:


> Is this with Silent Stage instruments? I find that with the truly dry modeled instruments (Sample Modeling, SWAM) pushing up into the 70%+ can be necessary to get it to sound "in the room." But you have much more experience with MIR haha.


These cases might be different, yes.


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## sound team apk (Jul 24, 2022)

Dietz said:


> These cases might be different, yes.


See, I'm not the only one 

But I'm having very bad luck with french horns compared to my trombone experiments yesterday. Here's a comparison (it all sounds pretty close since I raised the volume):

View attachment IB Stock vs. IB Sage vs. SM Sage.mp3


1. Infinite Brass Mozarteum Tree Mic on its own. The dynamics in my performance are generally too low, but this sounds pretty similar (though obviously with with a bit smaller space) to a reference performed in Boston Symphony Hall.

2. The exact same Infinite Brass MIDI, soloist (stock IRs off) fed into MIR Sage. It sounds squashed it sounds by comparison, and then the resonance near the end is pretty nasty.

[EDIT: Disregard the third sample, which is the SM Horn. Per a later comment, the dynamics (which aren't that high) were still too high on the SM Horn. I tried again with the SM horn through another reverb, and it sounded the same.]

MIR Teldex is somewhat less problematic, but still noticeably more resonant than Infinite's own IRs.

The difference between #1 and #2 must be user error, since #1 is all IRs too. The Room EQ made things worse, though this was my first attempt at using it. Is there a different solution, or do I have to figure out a better room EQ than I had earlier?


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## fakemaxwell (Jul 24, 2022)

sound team apk said:


> 3. The SM french horn, also MIR Sage. It's less squashed, but more tube-like, and it sounds like there's a harmonica playing along.


That's just kind of the quality of the SM Horn. Play with the expression mapping and mutes a bit, the top end of the range is kind of crazy sounding.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 24, 2022)

So I trialed dearVRmonitor today in order to hear MirPro3D through binaural headphones.... And I just want to say WOW...I was impressed. The binaural monitoring option really brings out all the imaging.


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## sound team apk (Jul 24, 2022)

fakemaxwell said:


> That's just kind of the quality of the SM Horn. Play with the expression mapping and mutes a bit, the top end of the range is kind of crazy sounding.


I know, but even so I was sloppy and assumed my dynamics were low enough to try. It's pretty far from the top of the range, but you're right that they were still too high. Thanks!


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## Trash Panda (Jul 26, 2022)

Here’s a sampling of the TSS mix mic into several venues that I put together for a buddy. Hopefully it turned out better than earlier attempts.  

@Dietz if one is using a library that is dry to dry’ish but in situ, would you recommend the following approach or something else to prepare it for MIR?

* Collapse stereo signal to mono
* Using Ozone 9 Imager, spread stereo field of mono signal to 30%
* Use Stereoize I function (Haas effect delay) to create just enough separation while keeping the image centered

View attachment FF7R Battles - MIR 3D Test.mp3


1) Dry 0:20
2) 7th Heaven Large & Near 0:20 - 0:42
3) Mir 3D Grosser Saal 0:43 - 1:03
4) Mir 3D Mozartsaal 1:03 - 1:24
5) Mir 3D Teldex 1:25 - 1:45
6) Mir 3D Sage Hall One 1:46 - 2:07
7) Mir 3D Pernegg Monestary (shortened to 2.5s reverb from 3.3s) 2:08 - 2:29
8) Mir 3D Synchron Stage 2:30 - 2:51


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## Dietz (Jul 27, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> * Collapse stereo signal to mono
> * Using Ozone 9 Imager, spread stereo field of mono signal to 30%
> * Use Stereoize I function (Haas effect delay) to create just enough separation while keeping the image centered


Hmmm ... why make it that complicated? Just use an Imager like Waves' S1 or VSL's Vienna Imager Pro (I'm sure that there are others, too) to rotate the existing biased stereo image towards a centered one? That way you can use the existing stereo information rather than inventing it:






The approach you suggest will introduce all kinds of more or less obvious artefacts, especially the so-called Haas panning (which is something I'll try to avoid by all means).

HTH,


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## Trash Panda (Jul 27, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Hmmm ... why make it that complicated? Just use an Imager like Waves' S1 or VSL's Vienna Imager Pro (I'm sure that there are others, too) to rotate the existing biased stereo image towards a centered one? That way you can use the existing stereo information rather than inventing it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You’re the best. Off to get Vienna Suite Pro. 😂


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## Dietz (Jul 27, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> You’re the best. Off to get Vienna Suite Pro. 😂


Like I said, there are maybe even freeware tools for this comparably trivial task. Depending on your DAW they might actually come with it built-in.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 27, 2022)

I'm not sure if you can rotate or not, but A1StereoControl is a pretty decent freebie plugin for this maybe?. I happen to also really like Waves S1.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 27, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Like I said, there are maybe even freeware tools for this comparably trivial task. Depending on your DAW they might actually come with it built-in.


I really liked the Power Pan Pro during the Vienna Suite Pro demo anyways. Knowing how easy this imager makes things MIR ready and the other stuff seeming pretty good is the extra push over the edge.


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## Dietz (Jul 27, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> I'm not sure if you can rotate or not, but A1StereoControl is a pretty decent freebie plugin for this maybe?. I happen to also really like Waves S1.


That's a nice plug-in, but in the end it's "just" a clever power-panning device, not one that is able to rotate the stereo image, IIRC.


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## Ben (Jul 27, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I really liked the Power Pan Pro during the Vienna Suite Pro demo anyways. Knowing how easy this imager makes things MIR ready and the other stuff seeming pretty good is the extra push over the edge.


Suite Pro also has other amazing plugins, my favorite is the Exciter - easy to use but adds so much to the sound!


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## Trash Panda (Jul 27, 2022)

Ben said:


> Suite Pro also has other amazing plugins, my favorite is the Exciter - easy to use but adds so much to the sound!


Yeah, I’ve had my eye on that for some time too. I assume all of the plugins are tuned more towards orchestral stuff than general purpose plugins?


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## Denkii (Jul 27, 2022)

Dear Santa, I have been good this year...

I find it very interesting how I can listen to a variety of MIR examples and some I absolutely love while others sound at least uncanny to just very bad (subjective of course. My opinion.)
And that even goes for examples that have been done with the same library.

I have a hard time understanding how much of that is due to how the users have set it up (before feeding it into MIR and/or within MIR itself) and how much of that is the actual rooms and whether or not I personally enjoy their sound.
I think I am getting to a point where I have a good feeling for which exact rooms are my favorite.
As for the rest: I will pick up the demo on my next vacation (only if enough disposable income is on the horizon...just in case) and fiddle around with it myself.
When I look at MIR, I find it daunting but I have heard multiple times that it's pretty easy and straight forward to use. "Reverb on easy mode". Yet the results are so different in execution.

In any way, I know for some, MIR is a "you either love it or hate it" relationship but even if I end up not liking it personally, I find it very interesting at least.


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## Ben (Jul 27, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Yeah, I’ve had my eye on that for some time too. I assume all of the plugins are tuned more towards orchestral stuff than general purpose plugins?


You can use these for everything


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 27, 2022)

Denkii said:


> Dear Santa, I have been good this year...
> 
> I find it very interesting how I can listen to a variety of MIR examples and some I absolutely love while others sound at least uncanny to just very bad (subjective of course. My opinion.)
> And that even goes for examples that have been done with the same library.
> ...


I have been experimenting a bit with a set-up for a dixieland piece I've been working on for a while. The demo option for the roompacks gave me the perfect opportunity to do so. Now I'm a beginner in all this and are really bad at mixing, so bear with me  

This example contains the trumpet and sousaphone parts from Cornet Chop Suey by Louis Armstrong, which features an energetic trumpet sound. To get the most out of an fast, energetic piece like this, I like to use Audiomodeling SWAM trumpet in Bb. These instruments are really great for playability and fast programming. They don't sound fantastic, but passable. Biggest problem is taming the sound, as it can have a pretty harsh, nasty top end that supposed to emulate the bite/sizzle of a silver bell.

As I don't have a sousaphone library (don't know if one exists actually), I used VSLs VI Bass Tuba, as it has the exact sound I want for a piece like this: the classic oompah  

Both VIs can set to be bone dry.

For the room, I was looking for a studio type space with short reverberations. I went for the ORF Studio 3 from roompack 2 and used the new HOA 3D Downmix setup and chose the Pure character presets. I tried the warm preset on the tuba, but found some detail in the mid-upper range of the sound missing once I did.

First, the dry example:

View attachment Cornet Chop Suey_TrTu_dry.mp3


With MIR PRo 3D on in default ORF studio 3, both instruments are standard 50% wet, no EQ, pure character, venue: classical handling, 0,6s reverb time, global dry/wet 0%.

View attachment Cornet Chop Suey_TrTu_MIRonly.mp3


Now to tame the harshness of the trumpet and also add a bit of a vintage sound, I did some EQ-ing on the top end before and after MIR. After EQ and MIR I added Miracle reverb to add some subtle reverb tail as to my ears, it helps smooth out the sound and gives it some definition. After Miracle I added some tape saturation and compression to glue the sound. With this WIP as a result:

View attachment Cornet Chop Suey_TrTu_full.mp3


Hope it gives you some idea of what MIR does to positioning and sound.

Marcus


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## Denkii (Jul 27, 2022)

@Marcus Millfield Thanks a lot for that example. The difference between the dry and first MIR example is striking. I have tried similar things in the past but I am not a production genius (in fact I am quite bad) and it always ended up feeling like I took a dry signal and slapped some reverb on top and those two elements never felt cohesive to me personally.
I like this a lot.

Just for fun: can you put that into Sage hall one? So far I seem to like that space the most and I am interested to hear more examples from it.


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## ModalRealist (Jul 27, 2022)

@Dietz is it preferable to have a balanced stereo image going into Mir?


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 27, 2022)

Denkii said:


> Just for fun: can you put that into Sage hall one? So far I seem to like that space the most and I am interested to hear more examples from it.


Sorry, didn't download it. That was the one I was least interested in...


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## Dietz (Jul 27, 2022)

ModalRealist said:


> @Dietz is it preferable to have a balanced stereo image going into Mir?


Yes, definitely. The left and the right channel "feed" their own positional IR, so you would lose information when one side is less prominent. Apart from that: The dry signal is part of of the Ambisonics decoding, too, so any biasing will be quite noticeable.


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## JTB (Jul 31, 2022)

@Dietz, How does someone set this up in Cubase/DAW and VEP?. **


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## cloudrunner92 (Jul 31, 2022)

Last night, I played around with Tokyo Scoring Strings and MIR a bit. I really enjoyed how intuitive and easy to use it is. And the sound, just wow.

Here are three version of my little sketch:

TSS Board Mix without external processing:
View attachment tss-board-mix.mp3


TSS Board Mix with some Seventh Heaven Halls 2/03 Medium Hall:
View attachment tss-board-mix-seventh-heaven.mp3


TSS Close Mics with individually rotated stereo image as described by Dietz above and into MIR/Teldex:
View attachment tss-close-mics-MIR.mp3


My personal observations:
I have no clue whatsoever what I am doing, I'm not a professional composer, only noodling around as a hobby. However, unlike the Seventh Heaven version, the MIR version actually sounds like a real room and a lot more spatial to my ears and I think with some more tweaking, it would easily be my favorite. I was trying to get a slightly more defined, less washed out sound and played with the reverb time scaling and dry/wet offset for that, but couldn't quite find the sweet spot yet.

Unfortunately, then I ran into a technical problem. I saved and closed the project and later reopened it and now MIR won't load properly anymore, always gets stuck at 0% loading with an endless spinner in the bottom right corner and if I try to close it or Studio One then, the application becomes unresponsive and I have to force quit 😞 New projects work fine, but I didn't feel like setting it up again right now. I'd contact support, but I'm only on the 30 day trial at the moment.

On an unrelated note, I'd also be curious if Cubase (since I believe Studio One has no surround sound support, not sure) can generate binaural output without further third party plugins? I only found this, not sure if that is what we would want to do? https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v...d_sound_ambisonics_binaural_monitoring_t.html


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## DJiLAND (Jul 31, 2022)

Boom library's Recenter is pretty useful with MIR


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## Dietz (Jul 31, 2022)

cloudrunner92 said:


> I'd also be curious if Cubase (since I believe Studio One has no surround sound support, not sure) can generate binaural output without further third party plugins? I only found this, not sure if that is what we would want to do? https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v...d_sound_ambisonics_binaural_monitoring_t.html


You would have to run MIR 3D in "raw Ambisonics"-mode to make any good use of this approach. While this is of course possible on a technical level, it deprives MIR of all possibilities to do clever things in its own decoder.  Instead, I suggest to use Cubase's Atmos-authoring for binaural monitoring of a multi-channel "bed" that's fed by MIR 3D's readily decoded output. -> https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v..._for_dolby_atmos_r.html?hl=binaural,rendering

... but it's save to say that the most hassle-free way to have a 3D mixed binauralized by Cubase (and actually most other DAWs, too) is the usage of a dedicated 3rd-party plug-in.


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## Rubens Tubenchlak (Jul 31, 2022)

Dietz, what about instruments that we record mono, like vocals or a guitar? How to deal with those mono channels with MIR 3D? Powerpan will be useful or this makes no sense at all?


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## Dietz (Jul 31, 2022)

Uhm .... more "centered" than mono isn't possible, I'd say. :-D ... Set the respective MIR Icon's width to zero, and you're ready to roll. You can also experiment with different width-settings if you're the adventurous type, as long as you are aware of the fact that left and right "handle" of the Icon will be fed with identical signals.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 31, 2022)

cloudrunner92 said:


> On an unrelated note, I'd also be curious if Cubase (since I believe Studio One has no surround sound support, not sure) can generate binaural output without further third party plugins? I only found this, not sure if that is what we would want to do?


Cubase12 has extensive support for surround mixing, including Dolby Atmos or direct Ambisonics mixing...neither of which you want to use in conjunction with MirPro3D. But one of the plugins they included for Atmos is a Dolby Renderer plugin, which normally is used for generating an ADM bounce...but it also has a Binaural monitoring mode built in. So you can use that renderer on the master channel of cubase...put it in binaural mode...and don't try to use any of the direct Dolby Atmos features such as Atmos objects, etc.. Just let the renderer convert the 7.1.4 mixbus into binaural. 






There is a way in there to configure each virtual loudspeaker as NEAR, MID, FAR or OFF, and for MirPro3D you probably want OFF.

Setting up the 7.1.4 mixbus in Cubase is not straightforward and I am not enough of an expert to figure out how to do that, but you can also piggy back on that too. Cubase12 comes with easy Dolby Atmos support, there is a menu item that if you choose it, it will automatically do a bunch of steps that sets up 7.1.4 mixbus, creates a bed channel and plops the renderer plugin onto the master bus, just with one menu command. This video describes an easy start guide for Dolby Atmos. Use that guide for setting up an Atmos project, but ignore all the parts about Atmos objects and using the 3d panners, etc. Just use it to initially setup the project:

 

If you do that, and put the renderer into binaural mode, set all the loudspeakers to OFF instead of MID, etc. and then just start creating your instrument tracks and put MirPro3D on each instrument. Configure MirPro3D to use one of the 7.1.4 presets.. And then you'll be off and running with binaural monitoring.

However This support in Cubase is basically using the Atmos features...and you want to ignore many of those features, which are described in various videos out there about Atmos. Don't try to mix with Atmos objects for example. Don't use Cubase 3D panners. MirPro3D is your panner. But you can definitely utilize the Renderer plugin on the master bus to generate a Dolby binaural output, suitable for monitoring. 

I ended up buying the dearVRmonitor plugin anyway because it is ultimately way more flexible then the binaural encoders built into Cubase and LogicPro...and sounds better too mainly because it provides headphone calibration, but also it does include some room simulation modes and basically just some tweakbility that is not present in Dolby or Apple's binaural encoders.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 31, 2022)

Rubens Tubenchlak said:


> Dietz, what about instruments that we record mono, like vocals or a guitar? How to deal with those mono channels with MIR 3D? Powerpan will be useful or this makes no sense at all?


If you have a mono instrument or recorded track, then you don't have to do anything..its already in mono. Don't mess around with your DAW's 3D panner. MirPro3D is your Panner.


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## bvaughn0402 (Jul 31, 2022)

Is there any video that shows using Mir 3D as direct as possible? Meaning, using it without VEP Pro, more like a plugin?


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## Dietz (Jul 31, 2022)

bvaughn0402 said:


> Is there any video that shows using Mir 3D as direct as possible? Meaning, using it without VEP Pro, more like a plugin?


VSL's marketing team is working on it. In the meantime, what do you need to know? Handling-wise there are only a handful of aspects that differ from other plug-ins, and they are explained in a few sentences.


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## Dr.Quest (Jul 31, 2022)

bvaughn0402 said:


> Is there any video that shows using Mir 3D as direct as possible? Meaning, using it without VEP Pro, more like a plugin?


It’s very straight forward. Easy. Except for the GUI always open it’s the same as any plug-in except all instances communicate.


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## bvaughn0402 (Jul 31, 2022)

So ... basically I would need to have the Mir plugin always running ... then insert a specific instance on any instrument track I want to use it on?

I'm guessing that running it on a bus channel would not work great since the plugin would not be able to differentiate the instrumental channel coming into it, right?


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## Trash Panda (Jul 31, 2022)

MIR runs as a separate application outside of the DAW and the plugin inserts in the DAW send and receive the audio to/from MIR. Takes some getting used to, but I’ve found alt-tabbing to get into MIR more efficient than hunting down the plugin in the DAW for solutions like Precedence + Breeze.


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## Dietz (Jul 31, 2022)

bvaughn0402 said:


> I'm guessing that running it on a bus channel would not work great since the plugin would not be able to differentiate the instrumental channel coming into it, right?


You guessed right  ... but don't take it too literally, because it can be quite useful to have a bus (or a common track) for an ensemble of similar instruments, e.g. "1st Violins" or "Cymbals".


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## Germain B (Jul 31, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Takes some getting used to, but I’ve found alt-tabbing to get into MIR more efficient than hunting down the plugin in the DAW for solutions like Precedence + Breeze.


Using Cubase, I put MirPro behind the mixconsole on the second screen so I just need to push F3 to switch between them (basically hiding/showing the mixconsole).


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## EwigWanderer (Aug 3, 2022)

Hi, 
I downloaded the demo yesterday (I had MIR24 few years back but sold it). My main orchestra library is Hollywood Opus, but I tend to write more intimate music now (Olafur Arnalds etc type of music) My main issue with mixing is the fact that I write music and I'm not an mixing engineer  (three under 5 year old kids keeps me busy during the daytime so spare time that I have is mainly for writing music not learning mixing) 

Depht and placement of the instruments in the soundfield gets me all the time. MIR will help me with that, but what roompack should I get? I will demo them yes, but I would like to hear your opinions on which roompack would be best for blending instruments from Eastwest, Spitfire Audio when talking about more softer music?


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 3, 2022)

Those libraries have the room baked in. Mirpro is really meat for dry samples with no room baked in.


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## EwigWanderer (Aug 3, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Those libraries have the room baked in. Mirpro is really meat for dry samples with no room baked in.


Yes I’m aware of that. EW close mics are fairly dry and I’ve had good results with them in the past.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 3, 2022)

EwigWanderer said:


> I would like to hear your opinions on which roompack would be best for blending instruments from Eastwest, Spitfire Audio when talking about more softer music?


Depends on the venue of the recording you are trying to match.

AIR Lyndhurst - Pernegg Monestary (Room Pack 5) with the reverb time lowered is pretty well liked for this purpose
AIR Studio One - ORF Studio 1 or 3 should do the trick depending on how much natural tail you want (3 has more). Both are in Room Pack 2 with Teldex.
Abbey Road One - I have not extensively tried to match ARO yet, but I would imagine the wide variants of Teldex (Room Pack 2) or Synchron Stage A (Room Pack 6) should come close enough. You can also try Stage 1 of Sage Gateshead with a lowered reverb tail time (Room Pack 4).

Overall, if your needs lean towards the scoring stage, small hall or studio sound, Room Pack 2 has you well covered. If you need a big hall, small hall and a smaller scoring stage, Room Pack 4. If you just need a big scoring stage, Room Pack 6.

Or just treat them like Pokemon and catch them all.


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## JTB (Aug 4, 2022)

Question:

Is there anything to be gained by using DearVR Pro in conjunction with MIR 3D Pro if I am only interested in listening through my 2 studio monitors?


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 4, 2022)

DearVRPRO is more like an alternative to mirpro3d. They are both panning plugins. DearVRPRO can output binaural psychoacoustics optionally. Mirpro3d does not provide that option.

DearVRmonitor is a seperate product designed to only do conversion from a multichannel surround mixbus to binaural. You can use this to convert your surround master bus to binaural format through headphones.

Binaural is using psycho acoustics and requires headphones. It is representing 3d immersive sound in only two channels. That’s why it sounds different and won’t sound good without headphones


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## JTB (Aug 4, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Binaural is using psycho acoustics and requires headphones. It is representing 3d immersive sound in only two channels. That’s why it sounds different and won’t sound good without headphones


Excellent!. My wallet thanks you.


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## LHall (Aug 5, 2022)

I've been a big fan of VSS2.0 for a long time. I decided to try out the MIRPro3D so I downloaded the free trial version yesterday. I'm in the process of forming my opinions of VSS vs. MIRPro. But I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts who have used both.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 5, 2022)

In my view the two products are not comparable at all other than they use a virtual stage "concept", but the technology and sound manipulation is entirely different. MirPro3D uses an elaborate collection of IR's in a 3D space to recreate the sonic signature of known venues..


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## carlc (Aug 8, 2022)

Sorry if this question has already been asked, but I am wondering if anyone is using MIR Pro 3D predominantly with non-VSL instruments. If so, is it working well for you? Do you feel like you are missing some level of control or detail?

I really like the concept of MIR Pro 3D, but would be using it *exclusively* with non-VSL instruments. From what I read on the VSL forums (from Dietz and others), I would need to use a general-purpose profile in that case. As such, I would be giving up significant interaction capabilities since the following data elements would not be present:

Frequency-dependent Directivity Profiles
Natural Volume information
The Stereo Width inherent in the original recording
Instrument and / or ensemble size
Natural timbres and possible changes (character presets)
Typical playing techniques and ways of sound production
MIRx-Mode settings
Is that a big enough capability hit to make MIR Pro 3D not worth it for non-VSL users?

On a side note, I would love to see an industry consensus standard where other instrument vendors could start providing this sort of data in a meaningful way, or maybe an extension to the VST standard set?


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 8, 2022)

MirPro3D works fine with any 3rd party libraries it will not be missing any features, VSL just provided some presets which are already pre-configured to work with their own sample libraries, mainly in terms of EQ settings and a few things like that. But you can use it with any sample library and still have full control over all of the elements you mentioned above.

However you should be aware that many sample libraries have the room sound baked into the samples already. As such they are not really ideally suitable to use with MirPro. MirPro is ideally suited to use very close miked instruments that don't have any early reflections or long tail reverb baked into the sound and ideally no long presence from the room in terms of distance to the mic, etc. if you're using a a library the that has very well isolated close mics as part, then turn off all the other mics and it should work well with MirPro. If the samples already have things like width, depth, distance, and early reflections baked in, which is true for many libraries, then they are not really ideal for MirPro, imho.


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## Garlu (Aug 9, 2022)

I purchased all room packs (and upgraded to MIR 3D 24) and I have to say, it did an EXCELLENT job on integrating some pretty close string soloists (using Pernegg) into the context of a more "roomy" and "placed" sound, which the rest of the ensemble had. I'll post some examples when the track is already posted in platforms (probably a few days from now). Very well done, VSL and Dietz!


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## Dietz (Aug 9, 2022)

carlc said:


> the following data elements would not be present:
> 
> Frequency-dependent Directivity Profiles
> Natural Volume information
> ...


Very valid questions!

For what it's worth: I work with non-VSL sources in MIR day in, day out since more than a decade now. I even compiled an exemplary, quite diverse Spotify playlist to showcase a few of these productions. 

Let me go through this list of MIR features one by one, starting with the second entrance:


*Natural Volume information:* This value was meant as a starting point only. It helps a lot when your arrangement relies on Vienna Instruments solely, but in the end it's "just" a gain setting in relation to others. No black magic. 


The *Stereo Width inherent in the original recording / Instrument size:* These pre-set values again a very practical feature for Vienna Instruments, but if you want to mix your own recordings in MIR Pro, it is very easy to set the width of the source in its MIR icon - simply adjust the outer ellipse according to the real dimensions in meters. And don't take that too literally: I often change the width of my sources by ear, according to the needs of the mix, but not necessarily according to "real" settings.


*Natural timbres and possible changes (Character presets)*: Of course it's nice to have hand-crafted EQ presets to choose from. Quite understandably I can't create them for arbitrary sources, you will have to find your own settings, but that's what mixing is about, isn't it? 


*Typical playing techniques and ways of sound production:* When I wrote this entry I had some of the specific settings for pizzicato strings in mind, or muted brass etc. Much like it's the case with the VI-specific Character EQs these settings are "nice to have", but not crucial.


*MIRx-Mode settings:* Now replaced by the concept of Venue Presets and instrument- "Roles" - which means that you're able to roll your own "MIRx"-settings in MIR 3D!

... finally there's the real downside when working with 3rd-party instruments and/or your own recordings:


*Frequency-dependent Directivity Profiles*: These profiles are indeed part of MIR's crown jewels. The fact that we have measured detailed spatial sound dispersion profiles for more or less all Vienna Instruments makes their usage within MIR very unique. Of course you _could_ assign the Instrument Profile of the VI Solo Violin I to any 3rd-party solo violin , but then you would have to know at least the main recording axis of both the VI and the 3rd party source (... many Vienna Instruments were recorded from the left or the right, from above, or sometimes even from behind). - This is why I suggest to resort to MIR's so-called *General Purpose Profiles* for anything else than Vienna Instruments.

Bottom line: You'll lose _some_ of MIR's VI-related cleverness when working with 3rd party sources, but many of these lost features can be compensated with a bit of manual interaction. And most of all: The sound and the spaces are the same for each and every source. 

HTH,


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## Casiquire (Aug 9, 2022)

LHall said:


> I've been a big fan of VSS2.0 for a long time. I decided to try out the MIRPro3D so I downloaded the free trial version yesterday. I'm in the process of forming my opinions of VSS vs. MIRPro. But I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts who have used both.


There are threads about this. Also important to note for anyone considering VSS, I believe it's dormant software at this point. If I recall, things have been radio silent from the dev for years now.


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## Zanshin (Aug 9, 2022)

Garlu said:


> I purchased all room packs (and upgraded to MIR 3D 24) and I have to say, it did an EXCELLENT job on integrating some pretty close string soloists (using Pernegg) into the context of a more "roomy" and "placed" sound, which the rest of the ensemble had. I'll post some examples when the track is already posted in platforms (probably a few days from now). Very well done, VSL and Dietz!


I am excited to hear your examples 

Pernegg is a favorite of mine. I've had good results using it match up match up with Air (reverb time shortened to match), but also on it's own for smaller setups (woodwind quintet or whatever).


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## Garlu (Aug 9, 2022)

Here you have a snippet of what's coming: 

View attachment MIR Pernegg_VG Test.mp3


Used Pernegg on the string trio (which I recorded in my home studio, very closed mic'd). 
RT was reduced to 2.8s, if I remember correctly and I played with the dry/wet to taste. This is the more "roomy" integrated one. The release will be a closer trio, because of the rest of the soundtrack being also a bit more close mic'd for the soloists. Although, I have to say I liked the blend of this version. 

And... also excellent players, for the soli parts! That helps quite a lot!  
Hope you like it! And again: Congrats to the VSL team and @Dietz !


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## sound team apk (Aug 9, 2022)

Garlu said:


> I purchased all room packs (and upgraded to MIR 3D 24) and I have to say, it did an EXCELLENT job on integrating some pretty close string soloists (using Pernegg) into the context of a more "roomy" and "placed" sound, which the rest of the ensemble had. I'll post some examples when the track is already posted in platforms (probably a few days from now). Very well done, VSL and Dietz!


FWIW, this was the winning point for me as well. As I posted earlier, I was having trouble deciding purely based on experiments with VIs, but when I tried placing my real piano (which I record pretty close in a box of a room), MIR clearly stood out compared to what I can personally accomplish with my other reverbs. I can almost never notice that there's reverb applied when I enlarge my room with Schubertsaal; the response is musical and naturalistic, especially at low dynamics. I'm very impressed. I never expected that I would be in a position to accomplish this convincingly with software.


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## carlc (Aug 9, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> …However you should be aware that many sample libraries have the room sound baked into the samples already. As such they are not really ideally suitable to use with MirPro. MirPro is ideally suited to use very close miked instruments that don't have any early reflections or long tail reverb baked into the sound and ideally no long presence from the room in terms of distance to the mic, etc. if you're using a a library the that has very well isolated close mics as part, then turn off all the other mics and it should work well with MirPro. …


Excellent point on the baked in room sound!



Dietz said:


> …
> Bottom line: You'll lose _some_ of MIR's VI-related cleverness when working with 3rd party sources, but many of these lost features can be compensated with a bit of manual interaction. And most of all: The sound and the spaces are the same for each and every source.


Thank you very much for the detailed answers! It all makes sense now  I have been avoiding the MIR 3D demo because I’m afraid I might like it.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

Dietz said:


> *Frequency-dependent Directivity Profiles*: These profiles are indeed part of MIR's crown jewels. The fact that we have measured detailed spatial sound dispersion profiles for more or less all Vienna Instruments makes their usage within MIR very unique. Of course you _could_ assign the Instrument Profile of the VI Solo Violin I to any 3rd-party solo violin , but then you would have to know at least the main recording axis of both the VI and the 3rd party source (... many Vienna Instruments were recorded from the left or the right, from above, or sometimes even from behind). - This is why I suggest to resort to MIR's so-called *General Purpose Profiles* for anything else than Vienna Instruments.



Thanks for explaining that. I did not realize until this moment that these directivity profiles are actually calibrating for how each of the VSL instruments were recorded. That emphasizes how important it is to use them for VSL instruments! It also just exemplifies even further the level of engineering prowess that went into MirPro and the VI libs!


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## Dietz (Aug 9, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Thanks for explaining that. I did not realize until this moment that these directivity profiles are actually calibrating for how each of the VSL instruments were recorded. That emphasizes how important it is to use them for VSL instruments! It also just exemplifies even further the level of engineering prowess that went into MirPro and the VI libs!


-> https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/mir-pro/think-mir#instrument-directivity-profiles

(... that's also where the feature list @carlc referred to comes from.)


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

well in fairness it should have been obvious from the name too! I have read the manual of course, but somehow I just missed this point.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 9, 2022)

ps - just a suggestion, I think you should copy the "think mir" page into the new MirPro3D manual.


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## Petrucci (Aug 9, 2022)

While MIR is supposed to work better with dry sources I've found that for example Brass Mid mics from Hoopus work better than Close mics, so experiment is always needed anyway)) If somebody made MIR preset base for most commercial libraries (including VSL Synchron ones) I would buy it for sure!


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## Dietz (Aug 9, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> While MIR is supposed to work better with dry sources I've found that for example Brass Mid mics from Hoopus work better than Close mics, so experiment is always needed anyway)) If somebody made MIR preset base for most commercial libraries (including VSL Synchron ones) I would buy it for sure!


Where to start, where to end .... _*sigh*_ .... But the great thing about MIR 3D's new preset management is that it makes it really easy to share settings with fellow users. No need to wait for commercial offerings.


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## Dietz (Aug 9, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> ps - just a suggestion, I think you should copy the "think mir" page into the new MirPro3D manual.


That's the plan, of course - the new manual is still a draft.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 9, 2022)

carlc said:


> Sorry if this question has already been asked, but I am wondering if anyone is using MIR Pro 3D predominantly with non-VSL instruments. If so, is it working well for you? Do you feel like you are missing some level of control or detail?
> 
> I really like the concept of MIR Pro 3D, but would be using it *exclusively* with non-VSL instruments. From what I read on the VSL forums (from Dietz and others), I would need to use a general-purpose profile in that case. As such, I would be giving up significant interaction capabilities since the following data elements would not be present:
> 
> ...


The presets can be used pretty well for non-VSL instruments. You just turn off the parts that are specific to the VSL preset in question like below under "Apply Role Features."

You'll still have to twist a few knobs and dial a few things in, but that's something I expect to do even if I'm working with a VSL VI instrument. It is pretty handy if you want to get a quick positioning and width setup going and then swap around venues of similar size to hear the difference and find the one you like for that piece.


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## DaddyO (Aug 9, 2022)

When I bought MIR 3D I included Synchron Stage as my free roompack to make sure I could integrate my VI libraries with my Synchron ones. For some reason when it first came out I didn't see an extremely low price to upgrade my existing MIR roompak 1. But today I saw it was only 25e to do this, so I did. Thanks for the heads up above that got me to recheck. Upgrading an existing roompack is nearly nothing.


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## AlbertSmithers (Aug 16, 2022)

I was looking into getting MIR Pro at some point, but I have a question. Does MIR Pro have the ability to create a custom room based on IR WAV files (B format, WXYZ) that I give it?


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 16, 2022)

no. And the tech involved is orders of magnitude more complex than a few simple IR's


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## Arbee (Aug 30, 2022)

I bought MIR Pro 3D a while ago but only just downloaded and installed it. I had the benefit of a mix I was working on in the old MIR Pro pre and then post the 3D update. My impression might be colored by some minor compatibility differences between old and new, but WOW, just in plain old stereo it sounds so much sweeter and more open. I can't wait to give my VI series libraries a run in this new environment. Happy, happy, happy - thank you Dietz, Ben and the whole VSL team!


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## shawnsingh (Aug 30, 2022)

I feel that VSL has some very superb software engineers and software management systems! Their software has always been reliable, performant, and aesthetically pleasing, and innovative.


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## Arbee (Aug 31, 2022)

I understand the comment that some folk have made about the instruments "floating in space", but do wonder if eq plays a part in that. If an instrument is eq'd for close up, yet placed far back on the MIR stage it could perhaps create that impression?


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 31, 2022)

I have noticed that too a few time but the impression seemed to go away when I listen in binaural! So it might be related to some aspect of downmixing that needs to happen or not happen when listening in stereo. Just guessing right now. I might be getting used to the way it sounds. It’s difficult to a/b test against previous mirpro since it replaces it in on install.

I personally think it’s more then just eq giving that impression. But may require some tweaks to the output format configurations to capture the sound of the floor in the room.

Or we might just be imagining it!


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## JTB (Sep 19, 2022)

Is it just me or is the Baumgartnerhoehe Steinhofkirche venue new?. Or was it in the old MIR Pro?.
Also @Dietz
Is there any possibility that VSL will be developing and making available Room Equalizers for the other venues in the future?. And if not, could you please outline briefly the best method for creating our own?.


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## Casiquire (Sep 19, 2022)

JTB said:


> Is it just me or is the Baumgartnerhoehe Steinhofkirche venue new?. Or was it in the old MIR Pro?.
> Also @Dietz
> Is there any possibility that VSL will be developing and making available Room Equalizers for the other venues in the future?. And if not, could you please outline briefly the best method for creating our own?.


It was in the old one too! I almost picked it up, it has a gorgeous sound


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## JTB (Sep 20, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> It was in the old one too! I almost picked it up, it has a gorgeous sound


Something must have gone awry with the install of MIR Pro legacy. It definitely wasn't there before. Cool! It _is_ a superb sounding venue.


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## Dietz (Sep 20, 2022)

JTB said:


> Is it just me or is the Baumgartnerhoehe Steinhofkirche venue new?. Or was it in the old MIR Pro?.


The church of Steinhof (... the "Viennese Taj-Mahal"  ...) has been available for MIR Pro already, but it really shines in MIR 3D now.


JTB said:


> Also @Dietz
> Is there any possibility that VSL will be developing and making available Room Equalizers for the other venues in the future?


Creating RoomEQs is context-dependent: Sometimes you want the Real Thing in all its natural glory, sometimes you need to tame room-specific resonances globally, and on other occasions you will feel the necessity to sculpt the sound of the room for a specific instrument only. I created "Venue Presets" for the overall sound of all MIR Venues which will be part of an upcoming update. And there are the exhaustive "Vienna Standards" in MIR 3D's new preset management: They are based on the hand-crafted settings I did as "MIRx" for all Vienna Instruments back then. I took me ages to create them, that's why they are restricted to six (or actually seven) Venues only. 8-)

... but the good news is: These "Standards" can serve as role model for your own setups. Unlike MIRx the new preset management with its "Roles" for signal sources is completely open for user interaction. You can copy/paste/adapt/save your own creations and even share them with fellow users.


JTB said:


> could you please outline briefly the best method for creating our own?.


For "overall sound correction" I feed the room with short bursts of pink noise from several positions, trying to spot and eliminate distracting resonances, boom or sibilance (if any) by means of the RoomEQ. This setting is then used as basis for more specific settings which I adjust by ear in the mix. - Don't forget: You can have a "bank" of up to 32 different RoomEQ settings in a chosen Venue. You have to assign one of them to an individual source in the Instrument Panel on the right.

HTH,


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## Olympum (Sep 28, 2022)

With the imminent release of Studio One 6 (without the much expected surround support) I started to look into options to "hack" Dolby Atmos authoring into Studio One. I have found a great guide for it on Michael Wagner's YouTube channel, but I can't figure out how to get the MIR Pro 3D output as the 5 stereo pairs "bed". Has anybody managed to get S1 and MIR Pro 3D to work together, other than stereo?


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## RogiervG (Dec 25, 2022)

Which roompack or packs will match Air Lyndhurst? Is it 5 (pernegg) or will pack 1 (concerthaus) or 2 (e.g. teldex with some adjustments), work too?
And can someone also give an audio example, as demo how it will sound together?

I am on the fence of buying Mir pro 3d, but i need to be sure that i can match nicely with Air Lyndhurst.
And i cannot find examples on youtube e.g.


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## Denkii (Dec 25, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> Which roompack or packs will match Air Lyndhurst? Is it 5 (pernegg) or will pack 1 (concerthaus) or 2 (e.g. teldex with some adjustments), work too?
> And can someone also give an audio example, as demo how it will sound together?
> 
> I am on the fence of buying Mir pro 3d, but i need to be sure that i can match nicely with Air Lyndhurst.
> And i cannot find examples on youtube e.g.


Iirc most people would use pernegg and shorten the tail for a match with Lyndhurst.


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## Per Boysen (Dec 25, 2022)

Denkii said:


> Iirc most people would use pernegg and shorten the tail for a match with Lyndhurst.


Yep. I used Pernegg downscaled for these two. Might give a hint of the hall type you get.


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## dunamisstudio (Dec 25, 2022)

I've been told Pernegg Pack 5 as well.

In the past, when researching Air Lyndhurst, I saw this, might help. Plus asking helpdesk, they sent me the below video.



https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025181534




> The library will also work well with our https://www.spitfireaudio.com/spitfire-orchestra/ (Symphonic Range), recorded in Air Lyndhurst Hall. All you need is a decent reverb. We would recommend the VSS3 by TC Electronics, Lexicon Native or Valhalla DSP. We find adding about 25% to your wet libraries and 65% to your dry libraries will work fine. Make sure you don’t have the dry stuff too loud either, to sound like they’re in the band they’ve got to be in and amongst the action.


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