# EDM song structure questions



## Ronny Mairas (Oct 25, 2022)

Hello, my name is Ronny. This is my first post. 

I'm relatively new to EDM production and I'm using Ableton Live Suite since 6 months now. I'm currently trying to get my head around song structure in general but get confused with the terms quite often. I.e. does Breakdown equal Verse, does Drop equal Chorus. How to differentiate between Intro and the first Verse/Breakdown. What exactly is the purpose of a bridge, etc.

Today I analysed my first track (2 Dollar Egg - Time Square) because I read in Dennis DeSantis' "74 Strategies ... " book that it would be a good way to get inspired and gain understanding of the elements of a song. I created a jpeg exported from draw.io showing what I came up with, but I have the feeling that I totally messed up the structure and even left out parts that exist but I might not know about.

If you have any tips and tricks how to memorize structures or software tools that helped you with this, please let me know. Also if you like to take a listen to the track and have a look at the jpeg, I'd be glad if you could give me the critique I deserve. It would really help alot!

Track: 2 Dollar Egg - Time Square


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## Jeremy Gillam (Oct 25, 2022)

This probably isn't the best forum in which to get EDM production advice (maybe try KVR or similar?). But I hope I'm wrong!

I'm better at talking about pop song structure, but I think for EDM the "drop" usually refers to an instrumental section that often follows the "chorus" or "hook" if there are vocals in the track, or if not, the most memorable section of the track. The part of the song that makes you jump up and down. I think of a breakdown as being less like a pop verse, and more of a bridge where the drums or beats get pulled out so people can catch their breath.

I think you're on the right track with your analysis, though I'm not familiar with that song. The more music you listen to, the easier it becomes to follow the sections and give them names that work for you. Something you could try is loading an MP3 or WAV into your DAW and adding markers for each section, then make your own track that copies to the structure of the reference song. Keep it up!


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## Yury Tikhomirov (Oct 25, 2022)

Damn, I have this book too - may be I should give it a read.


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## Montisquirrel (Oct 26, 2022)

It depens what kind of EDM you want to produce.

I am no way an expert of music theory terms regarding EDM (and other music), but I have listend to a lot of electronic muics through my whole life.

EDM means Electronic Dance Music and this name could of course describe all kinds of electronic music which you can dance to. But I think EDM also revers to a special kind of electronic music, the music you would hear in big clubs, music which you could also call "Electronic Pop Music" (like David Guetta or Avicci). A heavy Drum'n'Bass or Dubstep tune is also electronic and you can dance to it, but I would not call it EDM.

So at first I would give you the advice to choose a specific genre in that electronic music world. If the track you postet is the music you like to produce stick to it and try to recreate something similar (in the end it doesn't matter how you or we call this genre).

You already wrote down a lot of details of the structure, and in my eyes you even got deeper than that just the structure, you even wrote down when and where different drum sounds appear and which effects are used. So this is great. Go and write a song with exactly the same methods and maybe change it here and there if you feel like to. Learn from this and dont care too much about how you would call each part.

For structure you can do some research about song structures and find examples which have names like ABA or ABCABC or .....

I would give the structre of the track you have posted the definition "A". From beginning till end it is one idea which evolves, from start to finish more and more elements are added. I find it hard to use terms like "Verse", "Chorus" or "Drop" in your example.

Regarding your question about the term "Drop": Most common use of this term in electronic music is describing the part of a track after the intro, where drums and melodie and bass really start and "hit you in the face". I am not good at english, so let the music talk: It is one of the most famous "Drops" in recent history of electronic music:

0:00 - 0:41: Intro (Melody and Build-Up to the Drop)
0:41 - 1:33: Drop (people may argue that "the Drop" is just the very moment at 0:41, the moment it really hits you)

After 1:33 it repeats everything what happened already with some little variations.

You could say, the intro and the melody part after 1:33 and again at the end are the "Chorus" and the two "Drops" are the "Verses" (at least in my brain)



I love to talk about electronic music and if you like you can post some more examples of music you like and add some questions.


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## Ronny Mairas (Oct 26, 2022)

Yury Tikhomirov said:


> Damn, I have this book too - may be I should give it a read.


It's really worth it. It literally helped me find my way from an indifferent hobbyist to a more serious enthusiast with the motivation to finish a song one day. It's such a helpful guide for music producers.



Jeremy Gillam said:


> This probably isn't the best forum in which to get EDM production advice (maybe try KVR or similar?). But I hope I'm wrong!
> 
> I'm better at talking about pop song structure, but I think for EDM the "drop" usually refers to an instrumental section that often follows the "chorus" or "hook" if there are vocals in the track, or if not, the most memorable section of the track. The part of the song that makes you jump up and down. I think of a breakdown as being less like a pop verse, and more of a bridge where the drums or beats get pulled out so people can catch their breath.
> 
> I think you're on the right track with your analysis, though I'm not familiar with that song. The more music you listen to, the easier it becomes to follow the sections and give them names that work for you. Something you could try is loading an MP3 or WAV into your DAW and adding markers for each section, then make your own track that copies to the structure of the reference song. Keep it up!


I must have watched too many Youtube videos about song structure from too many channels. From what you wrote I gather that I got it all wrong. I'm not sure where I got the idea from, that Breakdown = Verse and Drop = Chorus. The way you explained it, makes a lot more sense. I guess I'll just keep practising. I read alot about that method to copy a song structure inside a DAW and I'll definitely try that.



Montisquirrel said:


> It depens what kind of EDM you want to produce.
> 
> I am no way an expert of music theory terms regarding EDM (and other music), but I have listend to a lot of electronic muics through my whole life.
> 
> ...



Good advice and thanks for clarifying the terms!

I never thought about specializing at all. But targeting only one genre seems limiting. What is your target genre, if I may ask? Do you have more than one? Now that I think about it, the most famous producers seem to focus on one genre, but I bet most of them practice other genres to expand their horizon.

Regarding the track I linked, it was quite hard for me to make out different parts of the structure, it gave me headaches. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this track as a single part.  Anyway, after listening to this Skrillex track, I realized I should be practising my analysing skills on songs with distinct structures first. This is also much more fun!


I really hope there is more advice to come!


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## Greeno (Oct 26, 2022)

Hello

Just to echo what has been said, think of the intro as the chorus (although can also not be a very revealing chorus sometimes) 
the first drop comes after that = verse (can be more than 1 variation)
then there is the main breakdown = chorus. 
After the main breakdown there is another drop in to the verses again. 
The outro can be the chorus or intro elements breaking down.

No hard rules around this, just a general structure. Obviously some producers do it differently.

Some tracks have more than one drop prior to the main breakdown and some also have more than one type of verse.
A bridge can often be a verse which leads to the main breakdown, often producers will strip elements back and bring them in again to buildup to the drop, as a bridge.
Buildup = a part where the track builds energy/elements/movement towards another part, often a drop. Some people describe the intro as a buildup and also main breakdown often has a buildup of some sort towards the drop.

Hope this helps, best thing you can do is listen widely to various dance genres, please note that the term 'EDM' is a US creation and the rest of the world had been calling it 'dance music' for decades prior to that, and still does. House is House, Techno is Techno, Drum and Bass is Drum and Bass and so forth ...so you'll need to specify when in conversation.

here's some good producers production videos to have a look at





I'd highly recommend watching or even studying with Point Blank music school, watch their free masterclassess https://www.pointblankmusicschool.com/masterclasses/
or DBS masterclasses on youtube. 
There are a tonne of tutorial videos on youtube of every genre.

I've been listening to dance music for 30 years and have been producing 'properly' for about 6 years.
Here's my tunes if you're interested?



cheers


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## Ronny Mairas (Oct 26, 2022)

@Greeno Hey, thanks for the explanation of the parts. It looks like I simply confused the terms Breakdown and Drop. Thanks for clearing that up! This is what happens if you try to learn everything at once without any structure.

I also realized that I used the term EDM to describe any kind of electronic music. I can't believe that I never looked into those basics more deeply. I feel the urge to catch up on that!

Thanks for the links, I'm always eager to let my extremely long list of tutorial sources grow. 
Your tracks are dope by the way. I forgot about how smooth and soothing DnB rhythms can be. Just wow!

Edit: Just out of curiosity, what DAW do you use? I'm kind of a sucker for this info when I adore a song.


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## Greeno (Oct 26, 2022)

Ancient Rhythm said:


> @Greeno Hey, thanks for the explanation of the parts. It looks like I simply confused the terms Breakdown and Drop. Thanks for clearing that up! This is what happens if you try to learn everything at once without any structure.
> 
> I also realized that I used the term EDM to describe any kind of electronic music. I can't believe that I never looked into those basics more deeply. I feel the urge to catch up on that!
> 
> ...


Thanks @Ancient Rhythm , glad to be of help.
I use Cubase, am on pro 11 but can defo can by with elements. I make my beats in Reason Rack's Redrum. I use all kinds of synths and Kontakt instruments for my music. I should have a couple of EP's out in the next few months hopefully.
Just to add more to your long list of tutorials, I'd recommend watching 
Computermusic magazine's masterclasses
Producertech
Dnb academy
Digital Labz/Sample Genie - for the most excellent deep dive into dnb 
Stranjah - excellent focus on specific sounds in dnb/jungle

THE top producers in dnb are well regarded by almost everyone in the scene as Break and Calibre - there is very limited stuff online about those guys but they are absolute masters, the diversity in their music, the nuance, the production, the writing, the moods, meldies.
Also some absolute classic albums that are pillars of the scene and highly musical, all from the 90's and so, so, so ahead of their time Goldie - Timeless, Adam F- Colours, 4 Hero -Two Pages, Roni Size & Reprazent - New Forms. check them out!


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## Ronny Mairas (Oct 26, 2022)

I will check those out for sure! Thanks for your in-depth listings, Greeno!


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## doctoremmet (Oct 26, 2022)

Greeno said:


> Goldie - Timeless, Adam F- Colours, 4 Hero -Two Pages, Roni Size & Reprazent - New Forms. check them out!


Those are a couple of my all time artists and albums - all in one sentence. Such great albums. I even tried to mockup a brief bit of a 4hero song recently. Definitely check out New Forms - what an album, jeez. 

Just to add to this: from this same golden era of DnB, also check out Photek.


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## Montisquirrel (Oct 26, 2022)

Ancient Rhythm said:


> What is your target genre, if I may ask? Do you have more than one?


Good question. I call my genre Orchestronic, as it is a mix of electronic and orchestral. And while you asked, you can have a listen to my latest EP here:




And I don't mean you need to limit yourself to one genre, but when starting I think it will help to focus on one genre and finish one track before getting too overwhelmed by too many ideas.


There is another thing I want to say. Reading your posts in this thread and also in your introduction thread I can see you struggle with finishing music in general. You said you worked with FL Studio for 4 years and didnt finish a track. Sorry if I got that wrong. But if I got that right you should not focus on the structur too much, but focus on finishing a track. A desicion like "Yes, this track is finished. I will release it" is one of the hardest thing as an artist in my opinion. Too much self-doubt, too much ideas. Many music makers think they need to write the perfect track before they can release anything (I have been there, and often I still am). You will get better from track to track and not from canceling each track. If I got that wrong, sorry, ignore this post.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 26, 2022)

Montisquirrel said:


> Good question. I call my genre Orchestronic, as it is a mix of electronic and orchestral. And while you asked, you can have a listen to my latest EP here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just a shoutout to @Montisquirrel because his latest work has become one of my most played EPs on Bandcamp. I concur this style of music defies genres - or rather is deserving of a genre determination of its own; orchestronic. I absolutely love your music and I am grateful you’ve shared this music with us. You made one of my favourite pieces of music released in 2022:



Fresh. Evocative. Compelling. Fascinating. Full of tension. And very musical! ❤️


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## Ronny Mairas (Oct 26, 2022)

Man, thanks for introducing me to these DnB artists. I'm usually not that into this genre but man, the tracks posted by @Greeno and @doctoremmet are delicious!

And @Montisquirrel your tracks are beautiful. Mixes are clear and instruments have all good places in the spectrum. Everything sounds crystal-clear. If it wasn't so "electronic" this would be perfect game and movie material! Though the loud instrument in "Delightful Doubt" (the song) was a little shocking at first. 

I definitely agree with your point about finishing tracks. I think I'll start putting them on Soundcloud first to receive some critique from comments and may be I'll join the The Song-a-Week Challenge reddit, once the theme is easy enough.


Thank you all for your time!


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