# "The Pillars of Creation" - Tone Poem for Orchestra - *UPDATE* live recording



## mducharme (Sep 21, 2012)

Hi all,

I would welcome some feedback on my tone poem.

*UPDATE* Live orchestra recording:
[flash width=450 height=100 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F86313113%3Fsecret_token%3Ds-cQfPk&amp;color=ff6600&amp;auto_play=false&amp;show_artwork=true&amp;show_playcount=true&amp;show_comments=true[/flash]

Cubase MIDI version:
[flash width=450 height=100 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F65283111&amp;color=ff6600&amp;auto_play=false&amp;show_artwork=true&amp;show_playcount=true&amp;show_comments=true[/flash]

PDF Score:
https://www.box.com/s/ln6rl2gg4en2zdfrixo5

I use a mixture of extended-tonal and post-tonal techniques in the work. 

Any feedback/criticism regarding the composition will be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## christianhowes (Sep 23, 2012)

*Re: "The Pillars of Creation" (Work-in-progress) - Tone Poem for Orchestra*

Great intro - moody, mysterious, arresting.
:43-:44 - interesting effect, is this a flute gliss down? (effect repeats :52-:54).
1:05 - I'm really into the new idea introduced in the bass!
1:50 - love the unexpected horn solo. And the continued marimba/xylophone strikes.
2:28 - sun breaking through the clouds, huh? Wonderful modulation. 
3:38 - great, Stravinskian chorale writing.
4:21 - bassoon? maybe it's just the sample I'm responding to, or the lack of rubato that an instrumentalist/conductor will provide, but I find this moment unsatisfying; not sure it feels as structurally justified as the surrounding material, but I also find the pick-up notes themselves (the solo bassoon's entrance) a little corny, honestly. I think maybe better notes (and I am just talking about the pick-ups, the very beginning of this solo) could be chosen.
5:16-:35 - really like this descending sequence in clarinet/flute melodically, and the back-up writing in the horns is excellent.
5:44 - really like the unity you achieve throughout this extended passage with the use of the one-note-repeating idea.
6:02 - col legno strings: great! And then that bell strike!
6:15 - wonderful singing, atonal melody; then, at 6:35, the cool choice to momentarily become Brahmsian; and then the orchestra starts groaning, like we're hearing the night sounds in a swamp! This is just all so cool.
7:16 - celesta? I like how previously-heard ideas reemerge in fragmentary form.
7:53 - timp sounds great.
7:56-8:15 - so what the strings have here is related to what the winds had in the 5:16-35 passage, right? I think the recurrence/transformation of the idea really comes off, makes the whole thing start to feel tightly constructed and dramatically satisfying.
8:45-:58 - I think this needs to be a bit longer, the energy of the preceding passage needs more time to dissipate fully. Maybe the strings should then enter slightly hesitantly, a little below tempo?
And a great, spooky close.

Anyway - I could say a million positive things about your piece. It's extremely imaginative, it's consistently engrossing, above all it really conveys a sense of narrative and movement and momentum. Your ability to structurally organize mostly-alien-sounding material in such a way that where we are in the story is always clear - and, even more than that, so that we want to keep hearing the story and to find out what happens next - is extremely impressive. Congratulations on your commision, which you fully deserve! I would really love to hear a recording of the final performance.


----------



## mducharme (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: "The Pillars of Creation" (Work-in-progress) - Tone Poem for Orchestra*

Thanks a lot for your very comprehensive review - it is most appreciated.



christianhowes @ Sun Sep 23 said:


> :43-:44 - interesting effect, is this a flute gliss down? (effect repeats :52-:54).


Bend tones on oboe. There is a flute as well, but doing a repeated note idea.



> 4:21 - bassoon? maybe it's just the sample I'm responding to, or the lack of rubato that an instrumentalist/conductor will provide, but I find this moment unsatisfying; not sure it feels as structurally justified as the surrounding material, but I also find the pick-up notes themselves (the solo bassoon's entrance) a little corny, honestly. I think maybe better notes (and I am just talking about the pick-ups, the very beginning of this solo) could be chosen.


Noted - I wasn't super happy with this myself but I wasn't sure how important changing it was. But if you picked up on it as well I should do something about it. Originally I had something different here, but that was a different idea that I've since removed from the piece.



> 5:16-:35 - really like this descending sequence in clarinet/flute melodically, and the back-up writing in the horns is excellent.


This is actually an atonal-ish version of the very tonal string melody when the "sun breaks through the clouds" as in your apt description.



> 7:56-8:15 - so what the strings have here is related to what the winds had in the 5:16-35 passage, right? I think the recurrence/transformation of the idea really comes off, makes the whole thing start to feel tightly constructed and dramatically satisfying.


Exactly, this is a development of the sun-breaking-through-clouds string theme which was then further put in an atonal context from 5:16-5:35.



> 8:45-:58 - I think this needs to be a bit longer, the energy of the preceding passage needs more time to dissipate fully. Maybe the strings should then enter slightly hesitantly, a little below tempo?


You're right, it does need a bit more time, I was hesitant to add more time because I want to enter this piece in a contest as well, the contest very precisely says 10 minutes MAXIMUM. But you're absolutely right - there needs to be a bit more breathing space here. So I can add more time, but I will need to boost the tempo earlier in the piece to make up for this change.

Thank you very much for your very thoughtful and detailed criticism. It is most appreciated!

Michael


----------



## mducharme (Oct 29, 2012)

I have now finished the score. The PDF score and final version of the Cubase music have been posted in the links at the top. Feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## Kralc (Oct 29, 2012)

*Re: "The Pillars of Creation" - Tone Poem for Orchestra*

It's pieces like this the make me question why I'm even trying music... :cry: But, it's also really inspiring. Thanks for the pdf!
Amazing work, Michael!


----------



## Rob (Oct 30, 2012)

*Re: "The Pillars of Creation" - Tone Poem for Orchestra*

Excellent job, Michael!
The panning is a bit extreme, flutes and oboes are far left, which isn't their usual sitting position in the orchestra.. Nothing wrong with it, if that's what you want...


----------



## mducharme (Oct 30, 2012)

Kralc - you shouldn't question why you're trying music, just keep at it. Thanks for the feedback.

Rob - Whoops, thanks for catching that. I must have accidentally clicked the panning control instead of volume at one point. And thanks for your feedback.


----------



## Vartio (Oct 30, 2012)

Really good writing. great stuff! wonderful colors.
Thanks for sharing it!

h


----------



## Kralc (Oct 30, 2012)

*Re: "The Pillars of Creation" - Tone Poem for Orchestra*

Don't worry, I always love it and keep at it. But music like this shows me there's still _so_ much to learn. Never ending I guess.


----------



## JoelS (Oct 31, 2012)

*Re: "The Pillars of Creation" - Tone Poem for Orchestra*

This is a fantastic piece! I really enjoyed it, particularly starting around 2:10 and through the rising strings and resolution of that part. I have a feeling Jerry Goldsmith would have liked it too, you have a similar take on space to what he did in the Alien score. Your track reminds me of the things I like best about Penderecki, too, when he's busy making music (like his 2nd and 3rd symphonies) and not just atonal sound effects.
There are many great moments and textures in here... the little horn flourish at 6:52, the woodwind colors throughout... it should sound really spectacular performed live. I hope you'll post a recording of that after it happens!


----------



## mducharme (Oct 31, 2012)

*Re: "The Pillars of Creation" - Tone Poem for Orchestra*

Thanks guys!

re: the rising strings section early on, that popped into my head all at once, and I had to repeat it over and over again in my brain so that I didn't lose it. It is rare that I have an entire section of music spontaneously compose itself. That is my favorite part as well.

Also, regarding Alien, I have heard that score many times in the past, it is one of my favorite film scores. I was not consciously aping it, of course, but the overall sound of it probably crept into my subconscious and my impacted my idea of what space music sounds like. I wanted to avoid the typical "high tinkly bells" glock and triangle stuff, as those make it too "pretty".

In my compositions at university, I am flip-flopping back and forth between writing more avant-guarde pieces and more traditional pieces. I do not mean to compare myself to Copland as there is no comparison, but his flip-flopping between writing 12-tone and writing more standard Americana music is similar. With this piece I tried to merge the two styles together, which can be difficult/awkward and have poor results. I tried to accomplish this by giving the atonal passages clear pedal points, such that they had some vestiges of tonality, and the tonal passages added notes / dissonances, such that they had some vestiges of the types of chord alterations (as Schoenberg would call them, 'vagrant' chords) that would lead to atonality.

I also tried not to have the music take weird 'left turns' for the sake of the program - hopefully it is a unified and enjoyable piece of music even for those people who have no knowledge of the program.

I would love to post a recording, but I will need to secure permission first.


----------



## mducharme (Apr 29, 2013)

Hi all, here is the live student orchestra recording of my piece. The performance was fairly good overall - however, the exciting climax of the piece was a bit slower in tempo than I wanted, and the brass players at the climax were a bit too quiet compared to the strings - the Cubase version of the climax is much closer to what I wanted to get. Still, I am happy with the piece, and the recording turned out well, I think.

[flash width=450 height=100 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F86313113%3Fsecret_token%3Ds-cQfPk&amp;color=ff6600&amp;auto_play=false&amp;show_artwork=true&amp;show_playcount=true&amp;show_comments=true[/flash]


----------



## quantum7 (Apr 30, 2013)

Great piece! Cool Space 1999 avatar also.


----------



## mducharme (Apr 30, 2013)

quantum7 - Thanks!


----------



## Blake Ewing (May 3, 2013)

GREAT stuff, Michael. Wonderful orchestral colors throughout. 

I thought the musical ideas really matched the imagery of the Hubble captures. 

I really love performance letter K, and the huge column of sound that you orchestrated.

Thanks for the score!
-Blake


----------



## Karel Antonin (May 3, 2013)

Hi,
this is a truly wonderful track (it now runs in my headphones for about half an hour in a loop)! I really love how it evokes a whole range of emotions (0:38 - mystery, 2:35 - love, 2:56 - awe, 3:45 - suspense, 6:30 - drama, 8:15 - horror), especially the part between 7:16 - 8:00.

Thank you.
-Karel


----------



## mducharme (May 4, 2013)

Karel and Blake - thanks for the feedback! I'm glad you liked it.


----------



## pelagicoats (May 8, 2013)

i listened both the mock-up and live with pdf several times.....great work! the orchestration is very interesting and i love the way you blend woodwind and brass together in the quieter moments, superb!


----------

