# Mid 2012 Macbook Pro Tips



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Dec 29, 2021)

Sorry, I am still finding my way around the forum to quote other posts so below is my klutzy attempt.

@river angler and a couple others recently posted about the amazing mid 2012 workhorse that convinced me to buy it from ebay today for less than $300 but wanted a few tips from him and other owners 







...<<<>"... and actually a lot of the tracks titled "OT" are actually playing CH instruments! Just didn't get round to changing the track names! Also the screen draw can't fit the actual 68 track count!
I can sometimes run up to 80 instances of CH even with most articulation slots open plus Waves CLA 2A effect dynamics inserted on each on my MBPro 2012 with 16Gig RAM all without needing to freeze. This is my just complete symphony arrange page that I even dubbed sax onto without bothering to render a backing track! Had all the instruments playing live while I was dubbing the sax also with the track inserted with monitor reverb, Waves preamp simulators etc! 2012 MBPro is an absolute beast! and it's yet to let me down on any job">>>

≠===========================

I am trying to equip my 16 year old composer daughter with a mobile rig on the cheap for next 2 to 4 years to add to her home studio 2013 Mac Pro cheapy i got from ebay a while ago. 

HER USE CASE

Have a mobile rig she can use to demo her logic orchestral compositions to teachers at school/ competitionsetc and carry to her composition teacher and perhaps use during 1st two years of college before I put some serious cash in a new laptop for orchestral composing. 

After a few references I saw by a couple members here on how great and serviceable the mid 2012 macbook pro is even 9 years later, i bought one on ebay today for less than $300 ( mid 2012, 3720QM, 15" Quad Core i7 2.6Ghz,16 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD, Superdrive ( to be swapped by me for 1 or 2 TB SSD.) 

Ideally the laptop will run Logic, HOOPUS, walker 1955, SF Symp Strings, Damage and perhaps Omni and select FX plugins

Wonder if the good folks here who have experience with 2012 MBP can help me with a few things as I setup the laptop from scratch

1) I am going to swap the DVD drive with an SSD. How important is it to keep both internal drives same type and capacity, say 1 TB each so RAID 0 (STRIPING) can be configured for faster I/O? It would mean having to buy two 1TB SSDs on ebay but if the performance ROI is huge, i will do it. Or should i leave the 500GB SsD inside and just swap the DVD drive with a 1TB SSD Or maybe even 2TB SSD that I think @Riverangler has? 

2) What make, model and size of SSD ( from ebay or elsewhere) would you recommend for highest value at lowest cost? 

3) Should I install Mojave or go with Catalina? Her teacher has Mojave so our home studio 2013 MP is Mojave as well

4) If i choose to go with RAID0, which MAC OS versions support it?

5) This laptop will primarily be used for music software. Can i reasonably expect that at least some version of Mac OS and corrosponding Logic version will still run on it for next 3 or 4 years (e. g Mojave or Catalina)? OR will it be so old that no MacOS or normal apps will be good on it? (I am totally new to the Apple world) 

6) Any other suggestions as I upgrade the hardware on this MBP and set it up so it serves her needs for next 3 to 4 years, hopefully maybe more? My budget is an additional $200 for new SSDs, Caddy etc.

TYIA for your input. i will try to post the link to the thread where @riverangler goes into more detail about this seemingly incredible MBP


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Dec 29, 2021)

More details by @riverangler

Post in thread 'Recommendations for string library/VST with small footprint' https://vi-control.net/community/th...-vst-with-small-footprint.118969/post-5006435


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Dec 29, 2021)

This was the post by River Angler on Dec 15 that gave me a sniff on this apparantly incredible laptop. Then i just had to hunt this baby down. 

Thank you, River Angler for this amzing tip.


----------



## Calagan (Dec 29, 2021)

Hi There. I'm the happy owner of this exact same machine, I'm abusing it each day since 6 or 7 years and it's still a workhorse (the battery starts to struggle though) : for 300$ (with an SSD inside), you had an amazing bargain.
I'm mixing and playing music live on it (2 keyboards and drums triggers controlling VI instruments and samples) : you need to be careful not to exceed its CPU or RAM limits (it starts to feel its age sometimes), but actually it's very usable as a pro music machine. And a very reliable one...

I'll answer your questions if I can :
1 - I don't have any idea
2 - I changed the SSD many times (doubling the space each time) and used Crucial and Samsung. Both were without any issue. I don't think you need to worry about the brand of SSD. Take a nice brand, even the entry level, and it will be a breeze...
3 - I would go with Catalina. I spent 1 year on Mojave and recently upgraded to Catalina. It "may" be more fluid, it "may" have less glitches. I was surprised because I heard bad things about Catalina, but so far it "seems" to be the most stable OS I had in a long time (difficult to judge objectively because there is many factors). But the most important is that I'm sure it's not worst and it's the most recent OS you can install on this machine. So it's better for future compatibility issues.
I would format the hard drive and install Catalina from scratch, choosing of course APFS and no case sensitive : this is important because choosing case sensitive format will make trouble with some plugins (I had the issue)
4 - I don't know
5 - You can expect few years of compatibility, but not much more... Catalina is already 2,5 years old. Apple are crazy with OS changes : each year, they disrupt something that works and release a new OS with new challenges for devs and users. A lot of users are sticking with the OS that works for them until the next version is stable (usually after 1 year, just when another new OS is released), or until they are obliged because they want to use a brand new plugin that needs the last OS. I don't think any audio pro is ever installing the last OS if he doesn't need to, but prefers to wait some time.
Choose carefully your plugins for better future compatibility. For exemple I know that Native Instruments were always the first to put the pressure for an OS update in my plugin list, and often I needed to update my OS to keep my NI plugins updated. But if you stick to some plugins/libraries that work well now from serious devs (Fabfilter for exemple, DMG Audio, Tokyo Dawn Labs, Fuse Audio Labs...), you could keep the machine during the next ten years : you will just not be able to upgrade to new stuff. Keep the installers, sound banks and VST/AU files in case a nasty dev erase them from its cloud after an update...
6 - Keep some money to change the thermal paste inside your MBP each 2 years (depending on the use). Apple store charge me 45€ for this, and I found it worthy. The main issue with this macbook (as with any laptop pre-ARM) is the heat, that can impact the CPU, that is not top notch by today standards. New thermal past helps a bit and keeps your computer safe...

Anyway, I'm sure your daughter can make incredible music on this machine. 10 years after, it's still a very usable laptop for audio production.


----------



## pinki (Dec 29, 2021)

Good choice! I have run this model for the last two years professionally and it’s graet. I swapped the DVD like you for a 1Tb SSD but perhaps now I think it would be wiser to have put in 2Tb. I used the 500gb for OS and the swapped out drive for libraries. I personally would not go RAID 0.

The screen is great, dual video cards. I maxed out the RAM. It’s built like a tank. I ran Mojave until very recently, now Catalina. It has every connector you need and the USB is USB 3, the first Macbook to have this I believe, which was a deal breaker when I saw the specs. One caveat, hope your daughter is strong because it is very heavy!

If in the future, if you need to upgrade past Catalina there are ways round this …unofficially

These machines are a bargain.


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Dec 29, 2021)

Calagan said:


> Keep the installers, sound banks and VST/AU files in case a nasty dev erase them from its cloud after an update...


Calagan, thanks for your input. Yeah I figured its worth a gamble for just $300. 

Good advice on keeping the sound banks and installers in an Old HDD just in case the Devs erase them.


----------



## river angler (Dec 29, 2021)

Your daughter is a lucky girl!

I can't really add much more to the good advice you've already received on your thread here!

For any future third party library content you may decide to acquire (please read my penultimate paragraph!) definitely go 2TB with the second internal drive (your library content drive). This drive should strictly have only library content on it!

Regarding the OS drive 1TB is advisable if only because there are times when developers sometimes don't give you the option to install a new library directly to any other drive than the base internal. Hence together with what else your daughter may have occupying the OS drive she will need that extra space to initially download the content of these new libraries before you can move them to your 2TB internal "library content drive". If on the other hand all you have on the OS drive is the OS and the Logic program (Logic's content should also be on the library content drive!) you should be fine with 500gig.

Regarding the external audio/project scratch drives I have a number of them using whichever one has more recently been cleared of old Logic projects that I have archived onto my ARCHIVE STORAGE DRIVE: I have typed this in capitol letters as I can't stress more just how fundamentally important it is to back up the scratch drive regularly to it! I have yet to have an SSD fail on me but I back up at least every fortnight just in case! By the way your daughter should get into the habit of double checking when saving any Logic project or recording audio that both the arrangement file and audio are being saved to the external scratch drive. It makes archiving much simpler and keeps the whole project together in one folder. You can set Logic up to do this automatically if you wish but it's important to make sure of it!

You may as well install Catalina as it is the last official OS the mid 2012 officially supports. I'll certainly be investigating the possibility of installing more recent OS myself as piki has hinted at if I ever really need to but for now I'm totally content working on High Sierra with Logic 10.4.8. On Catallina you will be able to run the very latest version of Logic. From what I've seen the latest version of Logic only seems to have added more EDM type features which don't interest me! No doubt there have been some niggling bugs amended but certainly none that I have come across in 10.4.8 that bother me in my own work flow with the program (apart from Flex Pitch which they still have not fully fixed! rrrrrrrrrr!)

Regarding running Logic smoothly always have Logic running on its own: that means no other programs running on the machine at the same time particularly internet browsers! I actually have the wifi signal permanently switched off!

Regarding future compatibility I wouldn't be concerned about this one iota!...

The wealth of software which currently works with the Mid 2012 even on High Sierra which is now 5 years old! is ample to keep your daughter occupied with the tools she needs to create whatever music she wishes for the rest of her life let alone the next 4 years!..

...I'm in danger of sidetracking your thread here so let me just add this!...

There will always be new software coming onto the market and yes! sometimes the nature of the design behind that software (and often the sneaky coercion to buy other products the developer makes: here's looking at you Apple with Logic!!!) makes it tricky for the developer to avoid loosing compatibility with older OS. However that software, if looking at VST instruments for example is highly unlikely to be anything more than another version/variation of the myriad of VST instruments available today that goes for FX too (the ones in Logic itself are in fact really decent!)

In the end the most important thing to consider as far as the development of your daughters musical education/journey is the base notational content of what she composes not the endless emperors clothes to dress that content in: clothes that are continuously put out to tender by the software developers!

I'm not sure if you have actually already acquired the VST instruments/FX you mention? but even the vast content that comes within Logic itself is not only of decent quality but ample for creating perfectly coherent productions of any genre of composition especially at an educational level. Not only that but along with such comprehensive tools Logic also provides the best platform for your daughter to learn all aspects of sound design/synthesis/sampling/ancillary application and mixing which are all side skills now needed by any budding composer. Yes! one can throw money at more detailed/higher fidelity sample VSTs and FX than some of those in Logic but at the moment my advice is to make sure all the hardware is in place before starting to throw money at third party software.

To put my last point into context: if I had the tools your daughter has access to just in Logic alone when I was her age I would have moved into film music immediately! but when I was a lad orchestras were at least £5000 to hire for the day to just hear what your composition would sound like let alone the cost of the studio time to record them! Now anyone can play and record any instrument they desire with their fingers! However to compose quality, emotive music is and always will be down to the depth of musical talent of the composer not the tools with which he uses to compose it with.


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Dec 29, 2021)

pinki said:


> I swapped the DVD like you for a 1Tb SSD but perhaps now I think it would be wiser to have put in 2Tb.


Thanks Pinki. Great to have another user confirm the value of this MBP model. 

It seems like this little beast may have at least a few years of life, so like you say, it may be wise to go with 2TB. 

Question - I need SATA iii 2.5 inch SSD drives for internal storage for both the regular OS drive and the swapped DVD bay?


----------



## river angler (Dec 29, 2021)

This is what I have for all three drives: external scratch (in an old Lacie rugged case) and OS drives are 1TB, second internal drive (library content drive) 2TB...


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Dec 30, 2021)

river angler said:


> This is what I have for all three drives: external scratch (in an old Lacie rugged case) and OS drives are 1TB, second internal drive (library content drive) 2TB...


First, a quick question. Whats the caddy model for housing the SSD you used for swapping out the DVD drive? 

Thanks River Angler. I am so glad I came across your little post on this MBP you posted o Dec 15. I totally agree with you that focus should be on composing skills and knowhow rather than getting the latest and greatest gear and samples. 

Of courss we cant do without the tools but having guidance like yours helps make the gear affordable without severely limiting the capabilities. 

You asked if we had the samples already? About 6 months ago, a well established local Studio/Publisher showed interest in my daughter's orchestral compositions that were done on an old imac with Logic stock pluggins and the free BBC Discover. The studio was very clear that there was no moving forward unless we got professional sounds because "the client gets distracted by the low quality sound on mock ups ( this studio often records with the top live session players from Dallas Symphony Orchestra and also has an good library with established clients) 

Also, the Studio's s main, longtime composer took an interest in my daughter's learning but since our system was a big bottleneck for new samples, we upgraded it to replicate the composer mentors system - 2013 trashcan 12 core, 96GB, 1TB ssd, D500 at ebay for $1250. It was a bargain but still a strain on our budget but I didnt want to hamstring my daughter and certainly didnt want to waste the composer mentors valuable time with system issues. At the composer's recommendation we got the $10/mo EW CC and Embertone 5 months ago. Within one week of getting EWCC, my daughter composed a new piece that the Studio's client bought a couple months later ( the mentor helped with the mixing and swapped out the drum patches.) We were shocked when my daughter was paid $2k for her piece. Since then we have bought Damage, Valhala, SF Symp strings, Ozone, Neutron. That was about 3 months ago. my daughter just completed a 10 piece EP to be placed either with this Studio's library or with another library. We haven't gone hunting yet but the composer mentor thinks it's good enough to get interest from some good libraries if we hunt around some. 

Lately we have been carrying the trashcan to the mentor's place and also for showcasing at school which will become more frequent, hence the need for a mobile rig. I was dreading having to spend a few grand on a serviceable mac laptop especially when she goes to college. Thank God i ran across your post on 2012 MBP. Hopefully it will work for her college needs as well. She may major in graphic design. 

Ever since she was 4, my daughter and I have teamed up on music - me as the enabler, researcher ( i could not identify even the middle C) and my daughter as the enthusiastic budding musician who encouraged her dad to just sit and listen as she composed and experimented on her inexpensive digital keyboard for hours. That convinced me to upgrade to a high quality digital piano when she was 8 and then again to a Logic home Studio at 14. ( she has had regular violin/piano lessons and is part of 300 member school orchestra for 5+ years.) Its been a beautiful journey all along. I am a bit skeptical of she and I getting caught up in the commercial/ career aspect of all this as it perhaps makes the journey not as pure and innocent as it once was. She is still deciding where she wants to take it all - pursue as a career, keep it purely as hobby or a middle ground as a side gig publishing on the Production Libraries. 

All these years my daughter and I have travelled alone. Sure there were appreciative listeners and encouraging family members but there were no friends or community of composers to lean to until we found VI-Control. It's been a God send and my daughter and I live on it. 

Again, my big thanks to the founders and moderators of this forum as well as to all the members who take the time to respond in such detail. It has been a major help as we start to tackle some more complex aspects of composing.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2021)

river angler said:


> On Catallina you will be able to run the very latest version of Logic. From what I've seen the latest version of Logic only seems to have added more EDM type features which don't interest me!


You need at least Big Sur to run the latest version of Logic (all Apple Pro apps). But you should be able to run though Logic 10.6 on Catalina if I remember right. 

My laptop is a mid-2012 i7 15” MacBook Pro 16GB with a 1TB internal SSD replacing the original hard drive. Replacing the drive was simple, easier in fact then upgrading the RAM. My version has the DVD player, Thunderbolt 2, and an enhanced (not retina) display. Many who own this model swap out the DVD player for a second SSD, but I still have use for the DVD drive. I use it pretty much daily and have no issue running any software, though I haven’t used it for music production since 2016. It’s the best laptop I’ve ever owned, and maybe the best computer I’ve ever owned in terms of functional longevity. Very rugged.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 30, 2021)

Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> Sorry, I am still finding my way around the forum to quote other posts so below is my klutzy attempt.
> 
> @river angler and a couple others recently posted about the amazing mid 2012 workhorse that convinced me to buy it from ebay today for less than $300 but wanted a few tips from him and other owners
> 
> ...


I'm also still running a mid-2012 MBP, albeit the 2.33 version. Have had quite a few issues the last few years, but have managed, bit-by-bit, to keep it going. The result is a bit of a Frankenstein's monster (Will see if I can get together some photos, in the coming days)

Anyway, to start...I'll echo what @Calagan said about getting the thermal paste checked. My issues stem from too many years running this machine hot and not knowing what a thermal paste was. Had I known sooner, I might have salvaged a lot of hair-pulling stress and not had to approach the machine with kid gloves. Anyway, we live and learn.

Seriously, though...unless you've had assurances that the person you bought it from has re-pasted in the last year, then make that a priority. It's possible to go DIY (I've done it a few times now), but getting the motherboard out is so fiddly, with so many little things ready to break. Getting a licensed Mac repairer to do it would be my advice.

Other things:

Wouldn't bother with RAID. Standard SSD is plenty fast enough (Many professional projects have been made with much, MUCH slower drives). 

But the software titles you've mentioned may cause some issues. Nothing insurmountable, as Logic (and most DAW, these days) allow for tracks to be frozen, which temporarily relieves CPU and memory strain. Essentially, if you can record one track, you can record 1000 tracks. It'll take a different workflow approach, but if one is not against huge paid deadlines it's not a huge issue.
16G RAM will also still give a certain amount of headroom, so it's not as though track-freezing will need to be done from the start. With decent planning, maybe not at all.

If you haven't already bought HOOPUS, then maybe consider trying a couple of months of Composer Cloud subscription to get an idea of how it works, and whether it is suitable (Form what I've heard, it's a bit easier to use than the libraries upon which it is based, but still overkill and potentially extremely confusing for someone just starting out with computer composing. But taking out the EastWest sub will also give access to the older, but still glorious, Symphony orchestra. Not only is it still great sounding (Not possessed of certain modern features, perhaps), but it can usually be found very cheaply and is much less resource-hungry (Should be able to be stretched very far with this machine). Workflow-wise, it might take a bit more massaging than more modern libraries, but no library will be exempt from that. 

Here are some examples of what can be had from EWQLSO:







Anyway, I'm the last person on here to be giving advice about orchestral libraries. 

--------

Another feature that Logic allows is for templates to be made up of tracks that can be loaded uninstantiated, and they will only consume resources when you decide to use them.

Other tips 'n; tricks can be found in various bits of software. Samples and Mic's can be purged and voices lowered, in Kontakt etc. Omnisphere also allows for sample-purge/learn and offers stripped-down versions of patches (In many cases, indistinguishable from their 'full-fat' counterparts). Suffice to say there is a lot that can be done to make this all go a lot more smoothly. Still, the bigger and more elaborate libraries will tend to force workarounds sooner, so that needs to be kept in mind.

Regarding SSD's. I'd go with Crucial. I have two myself (1 x 1tb; 1 x 2tb). Great value, from a well-known player, I doubt anybody would be able to tell much of a real-world difference between their equivalents to Samsung drives. I'd err on the side of a larger sample drive, even if that means starting off with a 512GB Boot Drive (Perfectly serviceable).

You've definitely turned up at the right place, imo. Ask whatever you need. No shortage of advice to be had


----------



## Nachivnik (Dec 30, 2021)

It's the OWC data doubler you are looking for. I just took mine out of my 2012 15" i7 MacBook Pro today because I no longer need it. You can find one here: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Data_Doubler?q=mac%20mini%20data%20doubler&sort.price=desc&gclid=CjwKCAiAzrWOBhBjEiwAq85QZ9Q59dmxPdgyh0035LpfFGhooW8bWA4Il5YcjAyCz8F4vz1tMM1yHxoC1jsQAvD_BwE


----------



## river angler (Dec 30, 2021)

el-bo said:


> ... the thermal paste checked.


Great advise here! ... and this is the first I've ever heard about "getting the thermal paste checked" I'll google it to find out more! Thanks!


----------



## river angler (Dec 30, 2021)

Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> First, a quick question. Whats the caddy model for housing the SSD you used for swapping out the DVD drive?


I can't remember the exact model of the caddy I have but they are pretty generic and easy to find on eBay or amazon new for about $10. Just make sure whichever one you choose is compatible with the mid 2012 machines!

Interestingly I didn't mention that my MBPro is in fact the slower model too at 2.3gHz!

Anyway! Thanks for sharing more details of your situation which certainly puts things more in perspective.

Again since my previous post others have chimed in admirably with great info!

I'm not a fan of Eastwest myself as I can't stand their player! I reluctantly use any library these days that isn't Kontakt based. Having said this there's nothing wrong with the EastWest samples themselves and indeed they are used by many pros. I agree that enrolling onto their soundcloud for the time being is probably the most sensible option for now to get access to better orchestral content than is in Logic.( If money was no object then I would always encourage plumbing for Chris Hein or Orchestral Tools but that's just my personal preference!)

It's annoying and in fact from this perspective the industry has never changed in that record/publishing execs always expect top quality demos! I have always found it irritating when, like you mentioned, they start bleating about not being able to judge the musical content in its own right unless the samples are top quality! What a contradiction! Anyway at least it's a hell of a lot cheaper to achieve that goal these days with software! But yes! sounds like you defo need at least access to top quality samples so the EW cloud is the obvious choice for now rather than spending much more on a dedicated orchestral pallet!

*One thing that concerns me though when you mention about the 2K they payed you: I hope you didn't sell them the copyright to your daughters composition for this measly sum!...?*


----------



## el-bo (Dec 30, 2021)

river angler said:


> I'm not a fan of Eastwest myself as I can't stand their player! I reluctantly use any library these days that isn't Kontakt based. Having said this there's nothing wrong with the EastWest samples themselves and indeed they are used by many pros. I agree that enrolling onto their soundcloud for the time being is probably the most sensible option for now to get access to better orchestral content than is in Logic.( If money was no object then I would always encourage plumbing for Chris Hein or Orchestral Tools but that's just my personal preference!)


Yeah...I guess I've not had the (dis)pleasure of working with 'Play'...yet. Will definitely have to sub to EW for a month, to try it.


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Dec 30, 2021)

river angler said:


> ( If money was no object then I would always encourage plumbing for Chris Hein or Orchestral Tools but that's just my personal preference!)


OPUS engine seems to be ok, she never used PLAY.
Since she heavily uses HOOPUS Solo Violin/Cello, we are on the look out for good Solo Violin/Cello samples but my daughter days EW solos and strings are fine. By this time next year we might consider buying a better Orchestral Library - OT/ Synchron etc but still continue with EWCC for a couple more years at $10/mo before buying EWHO and/or other samples outright once she has had time to explore EW at depth. 




river angler said:


> One thing that concerns me though when you mention about the 2K they payed you: I hope you didn't sell them the copyright to your daughters composition for this measly sum!...?


Well, even the $2k was something we were not expecting. But, yes, I am afraid they own the copyright.. It was for a well known TV News Network. I guess knowing how to value her pieces and then navigating the contract hurdles will be the most challenging part if she does pursue this seriously.


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Dec 30, 2021)

Calagan said:


> Keep some money to change the thermal paste inside your MBP each 2 years (depending on the use). Apple store charge me 45€ for this, and I found it worthy. The main issue with this macbook (as with any laptop pre-ARM) is the heat, that can impact the CPU, that is not top notch by today standards. New thermal past helps a bit and keeps your computer safe...


Thanks for this suggestion. It has been suggested elsewhere that this thermal paste from Amazon is high quality

Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut The High Performance Thermal Paste for Cooling All Processors, Graphics Cards and Heat Sinks in Computers and Consoles (1 Gram)


----------



## el-bo (Dec 30, 2021)

Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> Thanks for this suggestion. It has been suggested elsewhere that this thermal paste from Amazon is high quality
> 
> Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut The High Performance Thermal Paste for Cooling All Processors, Graphics Cards and Heat Sinks in Computers and Consoles (1 Gram)



It is high-quality, but not sure it’s suitable for our laptop (No all of them are) I had problems with the Kryonaut that I used (will have to check if it’s the same). In the end, I had the best results with (I believe) MX-2. But again, will have to check my Amazon history


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Dec 30, 2021)

Is this the MX-2 you used? 

ARCTIC MX-2 (4 g) - Performance Thermal Paste for all processors (CPU, GPU - PC, PS4, XBOX), high thermal conductivity, safe application, non-conductive, non-capacitive


----------



## el-bo (Dec 31, 2021)

Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> Is this the MX-2 you used?
> 
> ARCTIC MX-2 (4 g) - Performance Thermal Paste for all processors (CPU, GPU - PC, PS4, XBOX), high thermal conductivity, safe application, non-conductive, non-capacitive



Re-tracing my steps, I can see that the first one I tried was the MX-2 (Your link is correct). That wasn't successful, which is why i ended up trying and failing with Kryonaut and ultimately succeeding with Noctua NT-H1



From what I gather, there isn't really going to be any real-world difference between most of these. The problems I had with the MX-2 were likely my fault (First time; Likely didn't heed the warning to not over-apply).

The Kryonaut was terrible. Worked great after a couple of days 'cure' (Supposedly doesn't need it), but after a few weeks it had completely dried out and the temperatures were off-the-charts, once again. Turns out that Kryonaut is meant for high-powered, water-cooled machines and not usable in badly vented laptops e.g 2012 Macbook Pro, that often blow through the 80C ceiling of the Kryo-paste








Best long lasting TIM in 2017? MX-4?


Building my new R7 1800X/Cryorig C7 rig on Tuesday and looking for TIM that works well but won't dry up for many years. Right now I'm looking at Arctic MX-4, they advertise 8 years without reapplication. Does anyone know the difference between MX4 and MX2? Or is there anything else I should be...




hardforum.com





If you're doing it yourself, then don't be tempted to over-apply. It really only needs a tiny amount, which will get squished between the processors and heatsink, once re-fitted. Also, while there are a few different methods that can be used in application of the paste, stick to the pea/line method recommended by Intel for these particular chips. This is the vide-guide I used. Shows a good line application, but a bit of a fudged 'pea' (Don't think it should be spread around. Just leave the mound central and let the heatsink do the spreading



---------------------

Before any of this, I'd recommend d'loading smcFanControl. This will not only help get an idea of how your temperatures are doing, but it will also allow you to ramp up/down the fan-speed, as necessary. You can get it to load on start-up and have it always visible in the menubar. From there, I have presets save in 1000rpm increments, from 2-6000, so i can ramp choose the level to balance fan-noise against temps (Don't worry, your selection will be over-ruled if the computer needs more fan- speed.









GitHub - hholtmann/smcFanControl: Control the fans of every Intel Mac to make it run cooler


Control the fans of every Intel Mac to make it run cooler - GitHub - hholtmann/smcFanControl: Control the fans of every Intel Mac to make it run cooler




github.com





Also worth grabbing this, for more detailed analysis of how/where heat is building up. If you're having trouble reading the dark text from the drop-down menu, just drag it off the menu-bar and it'll light up properly  :









HWSensors / HWMonitor App - Free Mac tool shows temperatures and other system values


A few months ago, as part of the laptop cooler test of the AUKEY CP-R2, I introduced you to the system monitor, the demo version of which I f




sir-apfelot.de





Using at least the first will give an idea of how your Mac is currently doing. Best to check upon start-up/idling


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Dec 31, 2021)

Wow, that's a great detailed response. Without this i would have taken this task very casually. Thanks for the links. 

1. Do you re-apply the thermal paste every couple of years like Calagan posted above (or maby if the monitored temps cross a certain threshold consistently?) 

2. What is the max temp readings or other behaviors ( sudden shutdowns etc) that indicate it's time for reapplication? 

3. While you are at it, do you also reapply the thermal paste on the Gpu?


----------



## el-bo (Dec 31, 2021)

Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> Wow, that's a great detailed response. Without this i would have taken this task very casually. Thanks for the links.


You're welcome! I would caution against being fearful, but also against being too casual. Nothing about the procedure is difficult, but it can be very fiddly as there are a lot of overly-dainty connections being made to the motherboard (The ribbon that attaches the keyboard perhaps being the most fraught with risk). 

Watch the video multiple times before doing it, and while you're doing it. Pause when you need to and even slow down the playback speed. Also, make sure you are statically-discharged (You can buy cheap bracelets that allow grounding to the computer, if you want to be absolutely sure.

I'd also recommend having on-hand various receptacles to place the various different screws, preferably with a bit of paper to them to label them. Also, make sure you have the correct screwdrivers. Everything you need, as well as clearer instructions, are in this tear-down









MacBook Pro 15" Unibody Mid 2012 Heat Sink Replacement


Use this guide to replace the heat sink. This...




www.ifixit.com







Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> 1. Do you re-apply the thermal paste every couple of years like Calagan posted above (or maby if the monitored temps cross a certain threshold consistently?)


I'd use the apps to keep an eye on things. In terms of monitoring usage, it's hard to gauge. In-use temps vary so much, and actually Intel sets these chips to allow temps up-to 100C. The way I keep tabs on mine is to check the levels when idle/upon startup. This works as a good baseline, as it's a state that you'll boot into on a daily basis. 

I've had my computer idling at 28C, with minimum fan-speed. Currently, I have 2 browsers open , with more than 30 tabs and I'm still at only 32C/3500RPM. Mind you, I have a particularly well-ventilated laptop








Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> 2. What is the max temp readings or other behaviors ( sudden shutdowns etc) that indicate it's time for reapplication?


Hard to say for others. I suffered a couple of years of bad crashes before working out that it was to do with temperature issues, and that I had to make sure to keep my laptop under 70C to avoid them, Unfortunately, that upper-limit (before crashing) has now come down to 55C :( With the modifications I've made, I can usually keep under that, and I rarely crash these days unless I'm careless with tons of stuff going on. 

You really shouldn't have any of these issues, though. Theoretically you should be fine taking it as far as it'll let you go.



Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> 3. While you are at it, do you also reapply the thermal paste on the Gpu?


Yes! Both are shown in the video.


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Dec 31, 2021)

el-bo said:


> I've had my computer idling at 28C, with minimum fan-speed. Currently, I have 2 browsers open , with more than 30 tabs and I'm still at only 32C/3500RPM. Mind you, I have a particularly well-ventilated laptop


Thanks for another helpful detailed response. I may have to start paying the contributors at some point😁😁

"Particularly well ventilated" intrigues me. Care to share any more details? 

I wonder if i should swap out the heat sink with a new one as well( only $17.50)


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 31, 2021)

el-bo said:


> If you're doing it yourself, then don't be tempted to over-apply. It really only needs a tiny amount, which will get squished between the processors and heatsink, once re-fitted. Also, while there are a few different methods that can be used in application of the paste, stick to the pea/line method recommended by Intel for these particular chips. This is the vide-guide I used. Shows a good line application, but a bit of a fudged 'pea' (Don't think it should be spread around. Just leave the mound central and let the heatsink do the spreading



Thanks for the video. Makes sense not to spread the thermal paste before mounting the heatsink. I learned something new, thanks. I was surprised though to see how much thermal paste they applied in that video. That's like 3 times the amount I always used. Have I been using _too little_?


----------



## el-bo (Dec 31, 2021)

Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> Thanks for another helpful detailed response. I may have to start paying the contributors at some point😁😁


Well, it's a double-edged sword. The urge for members to help each other also extends to helping others empty their wallets on string libraries 



Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> "Particularly well ventilated" intrigues me. Care to share any more details?



















Like I said...it's well-ventilated 

I wonder if you can work out what the screwdriver is for.




Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> I wonder if i should swap out the heat sink with a new one as well( only $17.50)


Unless it's damaged/cracked, I'm not sure it'd make any difference. Perhaps blow some air through the pipes (Hadn't even thought of doing that till I just wrote it).

One other thing to check is the battery charging cycles. I lost the functionality of my trackpad to a bulging battery (They can also explode), so it's important to keep on top of that. It's cheap and easy to replace the battery, however.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 31, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Thanks for the video. Makes sense not to spread the thermal paste before mounting the heatsink. I learned something new, thanks. I was surprised though to see how much thermal paste they applied in that video. That's like 3 times the amount I always used. Have I been using _too little_?


You're right! He does use too much. Will try and find some better pictures


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Dec 31, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Like I said...it's well-ventilated
> 
> I wonder if you can work out what the screwdriver is for.


How did you do that grill for ventilation? Is it something you would advise I try? 

I can't work out what the grill is for.


----------



## el-bo (Dec 31, 2021)

Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> How did you do that grill for ventilation? Is it something you would advise I try?
> 
> I can't work out what the grill is for.


You mean the cooler stand? 

Because the keyboard no longer worked properly, I ripped it out for more ventilation. And while it did help drop a few more degrees, sandwiching that stand (4 extra fans) between the screen and the now-removed keyboard knocked off another 6, or-so degrees. I'm not sure it's possible to have it running any cooler.

Seems excessive, but with a computer that crashes above 55 degrees I need all the help I can get. Not only does this now generally run cooler, but it really stops huge rises. If I'm just running Logic, the processor will bottle-neck long before this thing gets hot enough to fall over. So we live to fight another day 

Like I said earlier, freezing and bouncing means there's nothing that I can't really do. The only thing that's recently happened is this model not making the cutoff for current Logic Pro compatibility.

In your case, I don't see any reason why you'd need to go to the lengths I have. Let’s see what your testing shows. And if you're daughter wants to use the computer for gaming, get an Xbox


----------



## river angler (Jan 14, 2022)

Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> Well, even the $2k was something we were not expecting. But, yes, I am afraid they own the copyright.. It was for a well known TV News Network. I guess knowing how to value her pieces and then navigating the contract hurdles will be the most challenging part if she does pursue this seriously.


2K is peanuts for a copyright. If you had kept hold of it you could have negotiated a "buy out" for the length of time and which territories they want to license it for. Never sell a copyright unless you are absolutely desperate and even then you should demand way more than 2K especially considering whoever shows an interest in doing so must see seriously long term potential use for the music you've written!


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Jan 14, 2022)

river angler said:


> 2K is peanuts for a copyright. If you had kept hold of it you could have negotiated a "buy out" for the length of time and which territories they want to license it for. Never sell a copyright unless you are absolutely desperate and even then you should demand way more than 2K especially considering whoever shows an interest in doing so must see seriously long term potential use for the music you've written


River Angler, I appreciate the guidance here especially since i am clueless about music business and of course my 16 year old can't be expected to know the value of her composition. It is definitely encouraging to hear that my daughter's composition talents might be high enough to start negotiating but TBH, even then I would be very reluctant to play hardball because she is only 16 and not an established composer. I am wondering if there are agents for composers who purely work on commisions / a cut and negotiate the right valuation for the piece without scaring the client away. Honestly, we are happy with whatever little recognition/renumeration she gets but i do see your point on proper valuation.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 14, 2022)

@Sunny Kumar Dallas TX just curious...how do you know they own the copyright? Did they tell you that or was an actual agreement signed?


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Jan 14, 2022)

Hmm. I am guessing that because they had us sign a "Work For Hire" agreement for that one track. I am pretty sure it had language around relinquishing our copyright etc. but i will have to go back and check. I am pretty sure we surrendered any future claims. TBH, i would not know how to proceed if another opportunity like this comes along. Same Studio is considering asking her to write more similar genre pieces for a very well known TV network. My inclination to just be thankful that my daughter is even getting these opportunities. I would be reluctant to push back too much but would be interested in knowing the best ways/agents to do this if it does come to negotiating at some future point. Thoughts?


----------



## river angler (Jan 14, 2022)

Sunny Kumar Dallas TX said:


> Hmm. I am guessing that because they had us sign a "Work For Hire" agreement for that one track. I am pretty sure it had language around relinquishing our copyright etc. but i will have to go back and check. I am pretty sure we surrendered any future claims. TBH, i would not know how to proceed if another opportunity like this comes along. Same Studio is considering asking her to write more similar genre pieces for a very well known TV network. My inclination to just be thankful that my daughter is even getting these opportunities. I would be reluctant to push back too much but would be interested in knowing the best ways/agents to do this if it does come to negotiating at some future point. Thoughts?


If a news channel wants your daughters music you are already at "that level"! Have a word with ASCAP or one of the other professional music bodies in your country to get some secure advise. Speak to one of the main copyright associations! You need to get clued up before you get taken for another ride! Your posts are making me wince!...

Ah! just read that you actually had this negotiated through the studio's connection! Even more reason to protect yourself and your daughters music pronto! ...Vital you speak to ASCAP or similar before having any more dealings with the studio!

And as Jeremy Spencer suggests for goodness sake! get a copy of the contract! To see exactly what you have signed for!



https://www.ascap.com


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Jan 14, 2022)

Yep, I just checked the contract we signed for the track.. it says "work-made-for-hire" and has additional language that makes it clear, the track now belongs to the Studio to do as they please. 

River Angler, i understand where you are coming from but I don't feel that by paying a 16 year old $2k for a 1 minute orchestral track (her first placement ever), thevStudio is being exploitative. Sure it could turn out to be a unicorn for the Studio, but what is the chance of that?

I wonder what other community members think? For a 16 year old noob composer, this is like a golden goose and I dont want to kill it by being too aggressive. 

The Studio is also in the process of accepting her almost finished EP and for that I will ensure that we keep 100% writers share and back end royalty rights. Anyways, all of this is a good problem to have. Our main aim is to have fun and keep it joyous and if she makes some money and others make lot more off of her work, its all good ( at least fir couple years.) BTW, we are registering with BMI.


----------



## Sunny Kumar Dallas TX (Jan 14, 2022)

Admin, I edited the topic to reflect the changed nature of discussion later in the thread. Hope that is not breaking any rules. Pl feel free to revert.


----------

