# IMac i7 5k or Mac Pro 6,1?



## Will Wilson (Dec 18, 2018)

So I want to get a Mac, I've ummed and arred and looked around and have ruled out some stuff and found myself with a choice of two.

Firstly I have 4 1TB SSD to attach to whatever so will need to get a suitable Enclosure or something! (BlackMagic Multidock for TB2 or Akitio thunder3 quad mini for TB3)

Secondly I do like to play PC games so whatever will have Windows 10 installed via Bootcamp just for gaming.

Anyways here's the choice:

2013 Mac Pro 6 core with 1TB SSD, 32GB Ram and Dual D700 GFX (I already have 2 HD monitors I could use which are okish)

or

2017 4.2 Ghz i7 5K iMac with 2TB SSD, 64 GB Ram and Radeon 580 GFX

The imac is a litttle more expensive but seems worth it for the extra super fast storage, ram and the screen but am still torn as to which way to go.

I've already ruled out a Mac Mini (crappy eGPU support for Windows/Nvidia) and Mac Pro 5,1 (too old), and iMac Pro (too expensive)

What would you do?


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## jbuhler (Dec 18, 2018)

Will Wilson said:


> So I want to get a Mac, I've ummed and arred and looked around and have ruled out some stuff and found myself with a choice of two.
> 
> Firstly I have 4 1TB SSD to attach to whatever so will need to get a suitable Enclosure or something! (BlackMagic Multidock for TB2 or Akitio thunder3 quad mini for TB3)
> 
> ...


When I faced this choice back in 2016, I ultimately went with the top-spec 27" iMac (officially late-2015 model with 4Ghz i7, retina 5K display and thunderbolt 2). At that point the maximum memory you could get from Apple for this machine was 32GB. Other than running up against the limits of the RAM, it's worked very well for my use. I'm upgrading it to 64GB later this month and should be able to see if the CPU is up to running much larger sessions. I have a thunderbolt hub that gives me four additional USB3 ports (delivering USB3 speeds), so that's 8 total. I have 6TB spread across 5 SSDs, two of which are in a two-drive bay. The others are all singletons, so I use 4 USB slots for my SSDS, 1 to a USB3 hub for HD backups and peripherals, 1 for 4TB HD as a media server via Apple TV for the TV/stereo in the other room, and 1 for the audio interface. The other USB3 port right now is running to my main MIDI keyboard. I could probably optimize my ports better if I had to, but this has been very stable for me and I haven't experienced any problems with sample streaming—though I'm sure there is something completely wrong-headed about this set-up as it's very DIY, created through trial and error rather than deep understanding about how all these ports and peripherals work. I still have one thunderbolt port that is completely unused, though I plan to add a second external monitor to make a total of three. I'm undecided as to whether I should add another hub to that thunderbolt port.


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## babylonwaves (Dec 18, 2018)

Will Wilson said:


> 2013 Mac Pro 6 core with 1TB SSD, 32GB Ram and Dual D700 GFX (I already have 2 HD monitors I could use which are okish)


independently of your decision on the typ of mac you really should consider to re-think the specs here. i'd rather have a small internal SSD and more external SSD based storage. and i also would go for the smallest graphic card possible unless you want to play games a lot. buy more 3rd party RAM, in fact buy 128GBs, those cost you "nothing" these days. apple simply charges a premium for storage/RAM/GPU.


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## Will Wilson (Dec 18, 2018)

babylonwaves said:


> independently of your decision on the typ of mac you really should consider to re-think the specs here. i'd rather have a small internal SSD and more external SSD based storage. and i also would go for the smallest graphic card possible unless you want to play games a lot. buy more 3rd party RAM, in fact buy 128GBs, those cost you "nothing" these days. apple simply charges a premium for storage/RAM/GPU.


I should clarify both these machines are used/refurbished.


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## artomatic (Dec 18, 2018)

I have both. I use the iMac Pro (8-core/64 ram) primarily now. Quite a difference in speed between the two. 
If you're patient, perhaps you should wait for the upcoming Mac Pro.


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## Will Wilson (Dec 19, 2018)

artomatic said:


> I have both. I use the iMac Pro (8-core/64 ram) primarily now. Quite a difference in speed between the two.
> If you're patient, perhaps you should wait for the upcoming Mac Pro.


I didn't mention the iMac Pro simply as it costs to much, likewise the new Mac Pro 2019 is likely to be outside of my budget!


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## Sami (Dec 19, 2018)

If the iMac Pro "costs too much", you should consider how much money per unit of performance you are getting from a Mac Pro, which just turned 5 years old today. If you have displays, buy a Mac Mini if you desperately need a computer running Mac OS which is made by Apple.


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## Will Wilson (Dec 19, 2018)

Sami said:


> If the iMac Pro "costs too much", you should consider how much money per unit of performance you are getting from a Mac Pro, which just turned 5 years old today. If you have displays, buy a Mac Mini if you desperately need a computer running Mac OS which is made by Apple.



Yes but as per my original post I want to be able to play games in Windows under Bootcamp, something the Mac Mini cannot do. eGPU in Bootcamp is poor at best.


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## BubbaMc (Dec 19, 2018)

A 12 core 3.46GHz 4,1/5,1 still packs a punch, and is by far the most cost effective IMO. Unless Thunderbolt is a must have (you can connect your SSDs at full speed via PCI-E), I'd seriously consider it.

Accepts full length graphics cards too  With a 1080ti it'd push more polygons than any Mac except maybe the imac pro. 2080 Mojave drivers are expected, however currently limited to High Sierra I believe.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 19, 2018)

BubbaMc said:


> A 12 core 3.46GHz 4,1/5,1 still packs a punch, and is by far the most cost effective IMO. Unless Thunderbolt is a must have (you can connect your SSDs at full speed via PCI-E), I'd seriously consider it.
> 
> Accepts full length graphics cards too  With a 1080ti it'd push more polygons than any Mac except maybe the imac pro. 2080 Mojave drivers are expected, however currently limited to High Sierra I believe.


And now with the Firmware update for Mojave we can boot from NVMe drives!
As I now am


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## Sami (Dec 19, 2018)

Will Wilson said:


> Yes but as per my original post I want to be able to play games in Windows under Bootcamp, something the Mac Mini cannot do. eGPU in Bootcamp is poor at best.


I still don’t get why the computer has to be built by apple... I know plenty of machines which run windows, mac os and cost a third of the 2013 mac pro...


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## Will Wilson (Dec 19, 2018)

Sami said:


> I still don’t get why the computer has to be built by apple... I know plenty of machines which run windows, mac os and cost a third of the 2013 mac pro...


Because whilst Hackintoshs have come along way in the past years there are always comprises that have to be made along the way. I want a reliable system that just works and doesn't require me to manually update kexts or post files, can have have the OS updated without massive amounts of issues (at least the only issue with updates will be software support! Avid!) Not to mention doesn't infringe anyone's EULA.


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## JohnG (Dec 19, 2018)

I have an iMac for Pro Tools and it's a very good computer, but I hesitate to recommend anything too heartily given that we don't really know what kind of music you aim to write over the next years.

If it's full orchestra plus synths plus guitars plus etc. etc., I don't think I'd want to be restricted on my DAW by 32 GB of RAM. Admittedly, I'm piggy and don't want to have to stop and unload anything while working. I have 64 GB on my main Mac Pro and a number of PC slaves; even so it's a bit annoying at times.

What are your ambitions musically? That would help calibrate your responses better.

Also, fwiw, I would never rely for my main "instrument" on a hackintosh. It's hard enough dealing with updates without the unexpected.


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## Damarus (Dec 19, 2018)

Please don't buy a 5-year-old computer... I pull my hair out anytime someone wants to consider purchasing a 2013 mac pro in 2018.

The iMac is going to do much better for what you want. Much much better.


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## BubbaMc (Dec 19, 2018)

Sami said:


> I still don’t get why the computer has to be built by apple... I know plenty of machines which run windows, mac os and cost a third of the 2013 mac pro...



Audio performance on a Hackintosh (or any PC for that matter) is not guaranteed. With Apple hardware and drivers you can be sure it'll work.

For example, I recently used a new Dell laptop which despite its i9 processor, couldn't handle low latency audio due to poor chipset drivers.


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## BubbaMc (Dec 19, 2018)

Damarus said:


> Please don't buy a 5-year-old computer... I pull my hair out anytime someone wants to consider purchasing a 2013 mac pro in 2018.
> 
> The iMac is going to do much better for what you want. Much much better.



A 2009 mac pro offers better multicore performance than a 2018 imac.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 19, 2018)

Damarus said:


> Please don't buy a 5-year-old computer... I pull my hair out anytime someone wants to consider purchasing a 2013 mac pro in 2018.



If you were to say don't *pay retail* for a 5-year-old computer, sure.

Otherwise, what BubbaMc says.


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## Sami (Dec 19, 2018)

I rest my case, your honour.


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## Will Wilson (Dec 20, 2018)

Went for the iMac. For my needs the processor should be fine (I'm coming from a 4770 i7) plus the extra ram, thunderbolt 3 and the better gfx made sense. Not to mention the stunning display.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 20, 2018)

Will Wilson said:


> Went for the iMac. For my needs the processor should be fine (I'm coming from a 4770 i7) plus the extra ram, thunderbolt 3 and the better gfx made sense. Not to mention the stunning display.


I am still on my i7 4770K here on my Windows machine! I am shocked it is still running and performing so well 

Also gave more life to my 2012 Mac Pro by installing a 512GB 970 PRO!


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## GtrString (Dec 20, 2018)

New iMac is likely coming out in 2019, so I'd wait for that.


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## Will Wilson (Dec 20, 2018)

GtrString said:


> New iMac is likely coming out in 2019, so I'd wait for that.



Don't want to spend the extra for a new one, plus I reckon that the ram won't be user upgradeable or at least easy to do.


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## robgb (Dec 20, 2018)

Well, I use an iMac, so that's the way I'd go.


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## Damarus (Dec 21, 2018)

BubbaMc said:


> A 2009 mac pro offers better multicore performance than a 2018 imac.



Where do you see that?


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## Soundhound (Dec 21, 2018)

Geekbench mac...



Damarus said:


> Where do you see that?


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## Damarus (Dec 26, 2018)

Soundhound said:


> Geekbench mac...



Yeah... where? https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks


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## Soundhound (Dec 26, 2018)

In the link you provided, 2018 mac mini is between 2013 mp 12 and 8 cores. I thought it was ahead of both. Clearly the gremlins moved it on xmas day.


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## jbuhler (Dec 26, 2018)

Soundhound said:


> In the link you provided, 2018 mac mini is between 2013 mp 12 and 8 cores. I thought it was ahead of both. Clearly the gremlins moved it on xmas day.


I think the charts are regularly updated based on folks running the tests. When I ran the test, both my machines come in higher than the listed benchmark for them, enough to move up several notches on the chart.


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## Damarus (Dec 26, 2018)

Also, a lot of people seem to not understand that a processor with the fastest Single-Core speed is still the best for overall DAW performance. I personally would try to Aim for the best Single core-speed with solid multicore speed, like the iMac pro 10 core.


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## Soundhound (Dec 26, 2018)

I get single core spikes for sure. I wish apple would figure out a way to deal with that without having to keep an audio track selected and armed. it’s the daw equivalent of duct tape...


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## mr336 (Dec 27, 2018)

I just bought a 10 core Intel chip and upgraded my 2013 Trash Can Pro. I run Logic successfully. I only paid $200 bucks for the used chip. If you have monitors already it be worth a look. Load it up with ram and watch her go.


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 29, 2018)

BubbaMc said:


> A 2009 mac pro offers better multicore performance than a 2018 imac.



Funnily enough, I stuck a few quid aside for the VI sale season, and I've ended up buying a pair of 3.46 Ghz Xeon 6 core CPU's to stick in my Mac Pro 2009.

I'd already flashed it to a 5,1, stuffed it full of SSDs on SATA3 Cards, and put 64GB of 1333 Server ram (ludicrously inexpensive from eBay). 

I currently use it as a VEPro slave to my iMac 5k Later 2015 4ghz i7, but also as my main Mac for non musical tasks - so I don't clutter up the iMac with all sorts of other rubbish I need to run.

I bought this machine new in 2009 for just over £2k, and I'm still getting great use of it nearly ten years later...... It's just been the best computer I've ever bought and soon it will have 12 cores of throbbing 3.46 Ghz goodness.

The only other things to consider are upgrading the WIFI & Bluetooth, and putting in a GPU that supports Metal. I've got an old GTX680 laying around that might be able to be Mac flashed - I'm going to look into that. 

So I think I'll now be watching the launch of the new Mac Pro with slightly less interest than many others.

For Pro use, this is going to be Apple's last chance. I wonder if thy are going to make a workstation or a hatstand this time....


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