# Your workflow for writing each part after sketching



## artur (Jan 20, 2013)

guys, let's say you sketched ( e.g. Using a symphobia string patch) some melody with harmony around this in DAW 
And before recording each part ( e.g .chello, viola, etc) into the DAW based on this sketch you care enough (some dont i noticed) to work out the voicing properly - e.g. To ensure each voice has some meaningful melodic stuff to play or does not move if not needed or moves by step , etc

what is your workflow for this ? do you print out a sketch score and do that on paper or do u drag/ edit your sketch notes in the DAW piano roll etc ?


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## Aaron Sapp (Jan 20, 2013)

For straight orch stuff, I always do a fairly complete piano sketch, then I'll drag/drop passages to various sections. Tweak the tracks accordingly (note lengths, velocity, dynamics, etc.), do the necessary doublings, ornamentation, etc. 

Some old examples I found - some Elmer Bernstein Ghostbusters-esque stuff:

http://www.aaronsapp.com/sapp_ghost_sketch.mp3
http://www.aaronsapp.com/sapp_ghost_mockup.mp3

My sketches nowadays are a bit more complete than this (saves a lot of time in the end), but you get the idea.


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## Mahlon (Jan 21, 2013)

That's very cool, Aaron. Thank you for posting that.

Best,
Mahlon


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## Vartio (Jan 22, 2013)

I have a very similar work flow as Aaron. I usually record each part after sketching it out on a piano patch. seems to work quite nicely for me.

btw. amazing mockup. awesome.


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## Aaron Sapp (Jan 22, 2013)

Thank you.


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## Rob (Jan 22, 2013)

Fantastic example Aaron! I have a similar procedure, actually the piano sketch has two stages... First is more freely playing ideas, with attention given to building the general mood/melody/harmonies/pacing etc., then a refined version where every voicing counts, the choice of notes is carefully weighted, internal voices movements, counter melodies etc, already starting to think in terms of orchestration...


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## rayinstirling (Jan 23, 2013)

Yes! great example Aaron,
I find the full ensemble patch in CS2 being great for sketching on strings ahead of separating to sections. Especially as it uses the existing loaded samples.
I'm not a pianist 'wish I were sometimes.


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## Casey Edwards (Jan 23, 2013)

My example isn't as flashy as Aaron's, but this is one way I like to approach pieces when I have the time to do more than straight to DAW. Either way, paper is usually involved so I can keep track of my ideas.

http://caseyedwardsmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Dark-Designs-Sketch.pdf (Dark Designs Sketch)

http://caseyedwardsmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Dark-Designs-with-CineBrass.mp3 (Dark Designs Mockup)

And when I have the time I try to stay up to date on using my notation programs and I'll put it into a full score format.

http://caseyedwardsmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Dark-Designs-Full-Score.pdf (Dark Designs Full Score)


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## Mahlon (Jan 23, 2013)

Nice, Casey. 

Mahlon


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 23, 2013)

Yeah, nice Casey.


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## artur (Jan 29, 2013)

Rob @ Wed Jan 23 said:


> Fantastic example Aaron! I have a similar procedure, actually the piano sketch has two stages... First is more freely playing ideas, with attention given to building the general mood/melody/harmonies/pacing etc., then a refined version where every voicing counts, the choice of notes is carefully weighted, internal voices movements, counter melodies etc, already starting to think in terms of orchestration...



Rob, thanks, to confirm, do you record your first ideas in the DAW (like Aaron does I understand) playing a piano patch (why not a string patch like symphobia btw?) and then you drag individual voices into individual sections (DAW tracks) and then you edit each voice fto improve/polish voicing/movements and you add counter melodies (all in the DAW?) and then you just rerecord each section with CC controller data based on the sketch ?


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## danielcartisano (Jan 29, 2013)

Aaron Sapp @ Mon Jan 21 said:


> For straight orch stuff, I always do a fairly complete piano sketch, then I'll drag/drop passages to various sections. Tweak the tracks accordingly (note lengths, velocity, dynamics, etc.), do the necessary doublings, ornamentation, etc.
> 
> Some old examples I found - some Elmer Bernstein Ghostbusters-esque stuff:
> 
> ...



Sounds awesome!

Would love to hear more examples like this if anyone has some!


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## Rob (Jan 29, 2013)

artur @ 30th January 2013 said:


> Rob @ Wed Jan 23 said:
> 
> 
> > Fantastic example Aaron! I have a similar procedure, actually the piano sketch has two stages... First is more freely playing ideas, with attention given to building the general mood/melody/harmonies/pacing etc., then a refined version where every voicing counts, the choice of notes is carefully weighted, internal voices movements, counter melodies etc, already starting to think in terms of orchestration...
> ...



Piano is my instrument, it can be a real or digital one or a patch in my daw, but that's the instrument I'm most comfortable with... also, the fact that the sound decays, compared to a string patch for example, leaves room for subsequent ideas to come, while having notes sustain all the time would get in the way somehow... Then I usually write the piano score, be it on paper or a notation program. Next I orchestrate the score, on paper/not. program if have the time, or directly in the arrange page of my daw when I'm in a hurry. At this stage the score is pretty much in its final version, meaning that all of the notes (melodies, bass, internal lines, etc) have been decided. It's just a matter of assigning to the various sections/solo instruments... Well, actually this is a process that takes a lot of thinking and time, but it's also very enjoyable and rewarding. Hope I was clear enough, just out of bed here


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## Vartio (Jan 30, 2013)

danielcartisano @ Wed Jan 30 said:


> Would love to hear more examples like this if anyone has some!



Here's an older track I've made:
Piano sketch/doodling/musing: https://www.box.com/shared/pn5sb75i9i7pqjq9luhe
Final: https://soundcloud.com/socq/lord-of-shadows

You can see that there is quite bit of evolution that has happened.. ideas refined, but the general harmonic structure/melodies etc is already present in the sketch. it's a good tool for keeping track of things.


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## Rob (Jan 31, 2013)

Vartio @ 30th January 2013 said:


> danielcartisano @ Wed Jan 30 said:
> 
> 
> > Would love to hear more examples like this if anyone has some!
> ...



a very nice cue, Henri! I really like the harmonies and the overall shaping


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## Daniel James (Jan 31, 2013)

When I sketch I either start with an intance of symphobia strings and block out my chords and melody OR I will start with a drum patch (normally if its action)

Then once I have that basis I pick the most important part or the peak of that track and flesh it out completely, then I know where the track needs to eventually end up and can pull elements of it out to spread around the track to set that moment up.

Haha when I try to explain how I go from sketch to final composition it feels like this : http://lolpics.se/pics/6104.jpg

-DJ


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## Rob (Jan 31, 2013)

Daniel James @ 31st January 2013 said:


> ....
> Haha when I try to explain how I go from sketch to final composition it feels like this : http://lolpics.se/pics/6104.jpg
> 
> -DJ




ha ha ha :D


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## Jimbo 88 (Jan 31, 2013)

I started a new working procedure that i like. I create 3 dummy midi tracks and view them in notation. The top track is treble clef, has the melody and I input chords. The second track has me playing the harmony(treble/Bass clefs) and the bottom track is the bass.

I view the notation tracks on a separate monitor and treat them as manuscript, saves paper.

Eventually I end up just viewing the top midi track which acts like a Lead sheet that follows along.

I'm going to try to figure how to Rewire Sibelius into my DAW so Sib will end up replacing the dummy midi tracks.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 31, 2013)

Daniel James @ Thu Jan 31 said:


> Haha when I try to explain how I go from sketch to final composition it feels like this : http://lolpics.se/pics/6104.jpg
> 
> -DJ



LOL


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## Vartio (Jan 31, 2013)

Jimbo 88 @ Thu Jan 31 said:


> midi track which acts like a Lead sheet that follows along.


Thats a very good explanation of it. 
(But in my case the track usually out grows the sketch as I add stuff in between sections if I think its too cramped etc..)


> I'm going to try to figure how to Rewire Sibelius into my DAW so Sib will end up replacing the dummy midi tracks.


Someone correct me if Im wrong, but to my knowledge you can't rewire in a way that does the notation automatically... but you could rewire so that the tracks stay in sync and just export/import a music xml of the tracks which you want to move.. (not sure but i think pro tools can do the transfer automatically nowadays.)



> Haha when I try to explain how I go from sketch to final composition it feels like this : http://lolpics.se/pics/6104.jpg
> -DJ


 :lol: exactly.

@Rob
Thanks!


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## toomanynotes (Feb 7, 2013)

Cool stuff, i can't play piano so i have to do all my writing from start to finish in my head. Trouble is it just stays there. Still working on putting it down to daw.Would prefer real orchestra though.


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## danielcartisano (May 11, 2013)

I'm reviving this topic....

Would love to hear some more examples if anyone has any.

Love hearing the midi/piano sketch then hearing the finished orchestration.


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## impressions (May 11, 2013)

I can bring you an example of how NOT to orchestrate.
on this project I'm showing, the orchestral parts were too big and according to the composer(I only orchestrated)- didn't bring the right mood after the orchestration.

theme by piano solo
Theme orchestrated

if you want to read more about the project, continue here...

the problem according to the composer, and i think so too, is that the piece simply works much better without all the instruments, because it wasn't composed for an orchestra. IMHO composer should write for parts as they compose the piece itself, or at least give them room before making the choices of "filling in".
I told him we should change the melody or the harmony to make it work better with orchestra but he refused. 
all of this happened because the director wanted something big and epic, I guess it came out over-doing it so. also EWQLSO have that hollywood sound that doesn't quite fit European mood. LASS does it much better, but we didn't have the budget for it.


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