# Harp notation help



## omc_29 (Aug 13, 2021)

Hi all, 

Just trying to clean up some notation and wondering if this is ok how this is notated and were about's dynamics should go on harps parts. Currently I have things clashing quite a bit. Have attached two pictures.


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## Gene Pool (Aug 14, 2021)

What's the tempo for the first example?


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Aug 14, 2021)

I would change the clefs to avoid the cross-staff stuff and the collisions with the hairpins.


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## omc_29 (Aug 15, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> What's the tempo for the first example?


Tempo is at 130 bpm.


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## JT (Aug 15, 2021)

I would leave the dynamics where they are, in the middle. If you move the dynamics above or below, it might look like the dynamic applies to only that note, instead of both of them. To avoid crashes, you can use "cresc." instead of a hairpin, takes less room.

Also, in the 2nd example, the high Bb in the treble staff on beat 1, you might want to make that a half note, it'll help clarify the middle Bb on beat 3.


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## Gene Pool (Aug 15, 2021)

For the first example, the version below is as clean and clear as it gets. I left out the crescendo since you indicated it was subtle, and harp strings become more and more penetrating the higher they go (up to a point), which will automatically give you a natural crescendo anyway. The other changes in the example all conform to harpists' consensus preferences for modern harp notation.






Additionally, you didn't ask about this so I'm being somewhat presumptuous, and although you've no doubt thought this through already and I'm sure it links up with whatever else you've got going on in your score, I'll mention that this gliss group is not ideal from an idiomatic harp perspective, plus which the effect will lack a clear definition.

At 130 bpm, the first downward gliss (from G5) is way too slow for a true gliss; slow enough to be a fingered scale. Also, the difference in speed between it and the other glisses will make for a muddled effect and a lack of unity, which, given the harp's translucent tone and overall nature, is something you typically want to avoid in harp scoring.

But that's less important than the fact that with both hands glissing towards the same target on G2—one hand chasing the other down into the bass clef—you run a real risk of string buzz when one thumb has to strum strings just strummed by the other thumb a split second prior.

The lower the strings go, the longer their decay, and in that region their audible decay can last up to around 20 seconds, depending on the dynamic. This is why, for example, harpists prefer playing in parallel 10ths over parallel 3rds. String buzz is one of their primary concerns, and the potential for it increases the lower you go. One solution would be to end the G6 gliss an octave higher, on G3.


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## stmain (Aug 17, 2021)

I'm a harpist and to Gene Pool's excellent advice above, I'd add you might consider notating the first gliss (starting on bass G) in the UPPER staff, using bass clef of course, and the 2nd gliss on the LOWER staff (again, adjust clefs as needed). The reason is that the bass staff is normally for left hand, but the gliss goes higher than the left hand can go. In either case, the way any harpist will play this is to do the first gliss in right hand, index finger, and then turn around on the right thumb and come down. The 2nd gliss would just be left hand thumb, starting high and going down.


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Aug 17, 2021)

stmain said:


> The reason is that the bass staff is normally for left hand, but the gliss goes higher than the left hand can go.


Good to know! What the top note (or range) for the harpist's left hand?


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## Gene Pool (Aug 19, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> What the top note (or range) for the harpist's left hand?


A harpists' lefthand even on a grand or semi- spans the full range of the harp, all of the strings, including up and down glisses.

_But_, for an upward LH gliss it takes a little bit of an increasingly different effort for about the 12 highest strings (starting at C6) because harpists have to look at their fingers as much as possible as they play, and from a side view at that, and since C6 is _roughly_ where the front of the harpist's face begins, this forces the harpist to move his or her head out of the way of the lefthand and turn a bit rightward to sort of eyeball their placement, even using peripheral vision for the very top strings. That said, this is still part of idiomatic harp technique and not out of bounds.

The only request I've ever encountered from a harpist was to suggest a "comfort limit"—when that is among your scoring parameters—that for upward LH glisses, since they are not using their thumb unless it's a fingernail gliss, it becomes more awkward especially for the top 4 strings, i.e., _above_ the top C string (our C7, their C1). *It's advisable to follow this advice because the harpist may cheat a little and fake it otherwise. *Going down it's easier to grab those top 4 strings since the thumb is available. So the top C string (C7) is a good practical top limit for upward LH glisses, but that is still above the G6 in the example.

Going _downward_ there are of course no lower lefthand concerns, but for the *RIGHTHAND*, harpists of a bit smaller stature prefer not having to reach below C3 with the thumb. For upward *RIGHTHAND* glisses, G2 below that is fine as the lower limit.

Okay, back to high LH glisses, come to think of it, and better than my convoluted explanations, it'd be better to just watch a harpist play all the way to the top to see what it looks like. I'll post a few bars from Ginastera's harp concerto, the revised version that the premiering harpist helped him sort out. It has the LH glissing from and to the top G string. Below that is Yolanda Kondonasis playing those bars at about 1:10 or 1:11.


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## Gene Pool (Aug 19, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> Going _downward_ there are of course no lower lefthand concerns, but harpists of a bit smaller stature prefer not having to reach below C3 with the thumb, but for upward glisses G2 below that is fine as the lower limit for an upward RH gliss.


Poorly explained; should have been:

Going _downward_ there are of course no lower lefthand concerns, but for the *RIGHTHAND*, harpists of a bit smaller stature prefer not having to reach below C3 with the thumb. For upward *RIGHTHAND* glisses, G2 below that is fine as the lower limit.

Fixed in original.


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