# New Headphones, or another solution?



## Snoobydoobydoo (Jun 30, 2021)

So, i got the Baby Pro FS and HD650 Combo. But im asking myself if id would make sense
to upgrade to new Headphones, or something else (ie. a dedicated Headphone Amp after the babyface)..
Im 95,5% a headphone user.
From reading some comparisons, a DT1990 is not that far from a HD650 so it wouldnt be an upgrade.
The next step upwards would easily double or triple the price of a HD650 from what i read, so im
thinking if thats a logical step forward. Im hoping for better resolution, more (moaahh) stage,
an even more neutral sound for mixing. Spaciousness, Stage, uhm....should be open ones.

There are those AKG 8xx'es, from which i read good things, but (aside from now being manufactured in China)
could those be considered an upgrade that justify 1k bucks? I like Beyer's comfort a lot, 
but not their low end /DTxxx range for mixing work....Audeze seem interesting.....then theres a dozen
others, and people recommending a headphone amp, while other say its useless.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jun 30, 2021)

The Babyface Pro is a great amp in itself. Forget about the "hi-fi" stuff.
As for good headphones, yes. Worth it.
So much more bang for buck than speakers, or an amp for that matter.
Your decision on which model won't be easy though. (Get HD800S!)


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## sostenuto (Jun 30, 2021)

Pleased with Schitt Audio - Asgard /Modi 3+ DAC _ pushing DT880 Pro 600-ohm Fones. (now DT990).
Not satisfied that many Audio I/F(s) match up, despite impressions. 

Interesting that published specs do not allow for direct comparison of I/F Preamps with dedicated headphone amps.


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## rhizomusicosmos (Jun 30, 2021)

Here are the Autoeq recommended EQ settings for the HD650 to match the Harman headphone target. You could try setting up a parametric EQ (Fabfilter Pro-Q is great, if you have it) in your monitor FX with these to see if it improves things for you.








AutoEq/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Sennheiser HD 650 at master · jaakkopasanen/AutoEq


Automatic headphone equalization from frequency responses - AutoEq/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Sennheiser HD 650 at master · jaakkopasanen/AutoEq




github.com


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Jul 1, 2021)

Jdiggity1 said:


> The Babyface Pro is a great amp in itself. Forget about the "hi-fi" stuff.
> As for good headphones, yes. Worth it.
> So much more bang for buck than speakers, or an amp for that matter.
> Your decision on which model won't be easy though. (Get HD800S!)


Ok, no Amp at all. Are the HD800s the way to go? Mhhh……


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Jul 1, 2021)

rhizomusicosmos said:


> Here are the Autoeq recommended EQ settings for the HD650 to match the Harman headphone target. You could try setting up a parametric EQ (Fabfilter Pro-Q is great, if you have it) in your monitor FX with these to see if it improves things for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have not yet used any EQing or anything in the chain to adjust the phones because I’m used to them as they are, and when I mix with a HD650 the result sounds pretty close elsewhere. With my DT770 it would be impossible.
What i really only miss is a more transparent stage / depth.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jul 1, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Ok, no Amp at all. Are the HD800s the way to go? Mhhh……


Based on what you've said in here about wanting stage/depth, I'd say yes. If your budget allows for it.
They've been one of the best investments I've made, personally. Though, I didn't exactly do intense comparisons between competition by the likes of Audeze or Stax etc, both of which get high praise depending who you ask. I went with HD800S based on a recommendation from people I trust, and am glad I did.


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## Instrugramm (Jul 1, 2021)

Neutral Headphones for tracking: Ether CX, neutral headphones for mixing: HD 600 and double check with HD 560S or HD58X with felt mod for bass impact (translates really well to car audio especially).

I have at least 16 pairs of headphones (including HD 650 and the specific Signature ifi amp that improves their response curve) and other than the ones I listed none of them are fit for mixing. I like the HD 800S a lot but they're anything but neutral and the immense sound stage renders positioning and bass thump approximation impossible when mixing/mastering.

As for the amp I can recommend the THX 789 it's less forgiving (aka translates better) than an A90 for example but has enough power for everything other than DT880 600 Ohm or Argon T60RP headphones.

EQing can rectify the flatness but not the way drivers work, HD 650s will always have a soft/slow moving bass response and silky highs for example, DT1990s on the other hand have very sharp highs and punchy bass, both leading to bad mixing decisions. Best get at least 1 set of good speakers and treat your room to a certain degree just to be able to double check. I love headphones and use them regularly for mixing purposes but it will take you a long time until mixes translate as you need to learn the proprieties of your headphones and counter them instinctively.

The Dac/amp combos of audio interfaces are generally pretty good but it's hard to judge them, the one on my UAD Apollo Twin X definitely trumps the inexpensive Native Instruments ones but I admit I've never specifically listened to the headphone out of a Baby Pro FS.

If you want some headphones for fun I can recommend DT177X or Verum One Mk2, both tremendous representations of closed-back or open-back headphones respectively, they can be paired nicely with a Topping A90 or xDuoo TA-20. Concerning a dedicated DAC something like a Topping D90 is more than good enough.


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## Bear Market (Jul 1, 2021)

Jdiggity1 said:


> I went with HD800S based on a recommendation from people I trust, and am glad I did.


Same here. I also came from a pair of HD650s and the difference is remarkable (especially the imaging).


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## PaulieDC (Jul 1, 2021)

For mixing I have the 650s and Babyface Pro RS, love it. You DO have to flatten the 650s for the final mix in order to get a great output for your car and everything else of course. I'm happy so far with the Sonarworks solution, and it happens to be on sale for $69 right now (headphone only version).









SoundID Reference - Speaker & Headphone Calibration


Create with full confidence in sound with speaker & headphone calibration software SoundID Reference. Already trusted by over 100'000 studios globally.




www.sonarworks.com





I don't use it on my system on PC for everything, I just use the plugin on the mixbuss that gets installed, and pick the 650 profile they offer. Sounds a little thin at first because you're now hearing flat 650s, but mix with them and your output should be pretty spot on.

They make a full version with mic where you calibrate your speakers and that works well, but I don't use that anymore because I sprung for the Neumann KH 80/750 system which has its own calibratiion. BUT, I still use Sonarworks for headphones

The only thing to watch for is to disable the plugin when you print to a stereo track. Cubase has Control Room so I use it on there which isn't part of the signal path that prints, but for other DAWs just remember to disable it on export.

Just a thought! Worth a shot, they offer a free trial download.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Dec 11, 2021)

Ill get the LCD-x as it seems its the most rewarding upgrade. Especially low end is something i always miss with my 650‘s. The LCDX shine there. Humm..


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Dec 29, 2021)

Just for the record. Holy macaroni what a difference. From HD650 to LCDX its remarkable. Imaging is something different now, didn’t expect that, Reverb is not much guessing anymore now.
Yea and the usual „details I’ve not heard before“ is everywhere.
Lowend is controllable. Nice heavy thing it is, but very comfy.


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## gives19 (Dec 29, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Ill get the LCD-x as it seems its the most rewarding upgrade. Especially low end is something i always miss with my 650‘s. The LCDX shine there. Humm..


Yeah... Been thinking about them for a couple of months. Probably after the first of the year I'll grab some in the first Qtr. Did you consider the LCD-xC Closed ear at all? https://www.headphones.com/products...MI3uihhbyJ9QIVIQV9Ch1tegBYEAQYBSABEgJfRvD_BwE


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Dec 29, 2021)

No, im was looking for open ones only. I switch to my 770 when recording vocals. Yea the lcdx reminded me to not turn my head to the mic.


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## Quasar (Dec 29, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Just for the record. Holy macaroni what a difference. From HD650 to LCDX its remarkable. Imaging is something different now, didn’t expect that, Reverb is not much guessing anymore now.
> Yea and the usual „details I’ve not heard before“ is everywhere.
> Lowend is controllable. Nice heavy thing it is, but very comfy.


Glad you like them, and glad to hear you like them. I recently went on a headphone websearch binge, and the LCD-X were the ones I ultimately decided I wanted, though (alas!) they are not the ones I ultimately decided that I could afford, so I got Sennheiser HD 660S on sale for just a bit over $300.

With CanOpener and a Harmon-esque EQ curve in Reaper's Monitoring FX, I'm quite happy with what I have, but one day I may revisit this and bring more $$$ to the table. I've never had the planar magnetic style of phones, and the LCD-X is clearly very highly regarded among studio engineers.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Dec 29, 2021)

Yea, since i will never treat this room here for monitors, i will let my H7S for decoration. The neighbors like that idea.


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