# Is there a decent vocal plugin that can turn my singing into MIDI Data?



## jononotbono (Oct 4, 2020)

Howdy,

I'm on the hunt for some kind of plugin that will turn singing into MIDI Data. Is there anything that works really well? A lot of the time I write music singing ideas and I figure it would be such a workflow enhancer to sing, and then turn that into midi data which I can then use with Virtual Instruments.

I tried a few things in the past to do a similar thing with Guitar playing but I didn't really find anything that was accurate.

Would love to know what options there are

Thanks

Jono


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## Dietz (Oct 4, 2020)

Melodyne would be an obvious choice.


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## Trash Panda (Oct 4, 2020)

Why yes, yes there is.


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## thov72 (Oct 4, 2020)

imitone


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## jononotbono (Oct 4, 2020)

Dietz said:


> Melodyne would be an obvious choice.




I don't wanna buy Melodyne. It's a hefty price tag to just do this. If I was restoring audio, fixing a ton of Vocal problems, tuning live instruments daily then I wouldn't hesitate.


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## jononotbono (Oct 4, 2020)

The Serinator said:


> Why yes, yes there is.




Looks good. Anything I can use as a plugin, with Cubase?


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## jononotbono (Oct 4, 2020)

thov72 said:


> imitone



Thanks, I'll check it out


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## method1 (Oct 4, 2020)

Cubase can extract midi data from recorded audio with the built in VariAudio.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 4, 2020)

method1 said:


> Cubase can extract midi data from recorded audio with the built in VariAudio.


Cool feature indeed. I’d try this one first Luke


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## jononotbono (Oct 4, 2020)

method1 said:


> Cubase can extract midi data from recorded audio with the built in VariAudio.



Yeah, it's just not very good. As in, I'm not very good at singing and therefore it yields very bad results


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## Markrs (Oct 4, 2020)

The Serinator said:


> Why yes, yes there is.



This uses reatune (a tuner VST) which whilst it comes with reaper, it can be downloaded separately and used in any DAW. It uses the input FX area, not sure if cubase has that. It then uses the output to midi option for recording again not sure if that is a feature cubase has.


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## pmountford (Oct 4, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Yeah, it's just not very good. As in, I'm not very good at singing and therefore it yields very bad results


Really? Sorry to hear. I'm using variaudio in Cubase 10.0 and thinking how its improved since Steinberg first introduced it. Although I'm using it for tweaking/ correcting vocals so admitedly a different task.


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## method1 (Oct 4, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Yeah, it's just not very good. As in, I'm not very good at singing and therefore it yields very bad results



I've had varying success, you can tune the vocal first and then extract the midi. 
I use it often for converting electric bass to midi and it works fine.

There's also this thing which looks interesting:

https://vochlea.com 

No firsthand experience with it though.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 4, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> As in, I'm not very good at singing


In the OT Phoenix thread I’m on record admitting you DO hum very professionally. Could you not HUM into Cubase?


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## D Halgren (Oct 4, 2020)

https://www.waves.com/plugins/ovox-...CPqmQSCZryMKo_5hgQFJjGhI_Obu0GVAaAq6vEALw_wcB

Take a look at this, Luke. Might be just the ticket.


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## D Halgren (Oct 4, 2020)

OVox’s MIDI Out feature lets you play any virtual instrument (whether by Waves or other manufacturers) using your voice, in real time. You can sing or hum melodies; OVox will convert your voice to MIDI, then send the MIDI out to the other instrument. You can also use the Note Mapper to quantize your MIDI to scale, or generate hundreds of chord progressions easily. You can even route the other instrument as a carrier back to OVox, and use OVox’s formant filter to modulate the other instrument!


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## jononotbono (Oct 4, 2020)

method1 said:


> I've had varying success, you can tune the vocal first and then extract the midi.
> I use it often for converting electric bass to midi and it works fine.
> 
> There's also this thing which looks interesting:
> ...



Ha! Funny, I was just about to post...

Has anyone used this?


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## jononotbono (Oct 4, 2020)

D Halgren said:


> OVox’s MIDI Out feature lets you play any virtual instrument (whether by Waves or other manufacturers) using your voice, in real time. You can sing or hum melodies; OVox will convert your voice to MIDI, then send the MIDI out to the other instrument. You can also use the Note Mapper to quantize your MIDI to scale, or generate hundreds of chord progressions easily. You can even route the other instrument as a carrier back to OVox, and use OVox’s formant filter to modulate the other instrument!



Does it work?


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## jononotbono (Oct 4, 2020)

pmountford said:


> Although I'm using it for tweaking/ correcting vocals so admitedly a different task.



It's great for that. I can definitely sing something, use Variaudio and spend a while tweaking the midi data but I'm looking forsomethingo that is fast. All the editing just get the midi data kills the creative process. I actually think Variaudio is really good for tweaking. It's not on a Melodyne level for features but man, it has improved over the years.


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## D Halgren (Oct 4, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Does it work?


No idea, but there are really annoying ads that play on YouTube all the time of a guy singing in a bass line and then it becomes a bass


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## D Halgren (Oct 4, 2020)




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## doctoremmet (Oct 4, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Does it work?


I have this one but have never tried it...


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## D Halgren (Oct 4, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I have this one but have never tried it...


Well then, Doc, it's time for a comprehensive demo and review!


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## jononotbono (Oct 4, 2020)

D Halgren said:


> Well then, Doc, it's time for a comprehensive demo and review!



Exactly! Come on @doctoremmet! Get your singing voice out!


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## D Halgren (Oct 4, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Exactly! Come on @doctoremmet! Get your singing voice out!


Full Bohemian Rhapsody


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## doctoremmet (Oct 4, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Exactly! Come on @doctoremmet! Get your singing voice out!


I am! I have come up with the coolest mash-up ever. Are you sitting down?

I am in the process of arranging XTC’s excellent 1000 Umbrellas and will mash it up with QOTSA’s Sky Is Falling. The first one has a great string arrangement by guitarist Dave Gregory, the latter brilliant drumming by Dave Grohl. Eventually I shall have to channel my inner Andy Partridge and sing the bloody tune too! I promise I’ll get out the Waves plugin, when I do.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 4, 2020)

D Halgren said:


> Full Bohemian Rhapsody


Ok. I will also use the Waves piano plugin then, you know... they sampled Freddy’s Fazioli (or was it Adele’s piano)? And I’ll go full Wayne’s World!


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## hdsmile (Oct 24, 2020)

Will be great to have waves Ovox plugin to turn voice to midi, but unfortunately not for Logic users, because logic doesn't supported the MIDI out:( hopefully that will change in a future by next update of Logic. 
iZotope VocalSynth 2 also has a Midi mode setting, can someone confirm if this really works?

I'm wondering if there is a decent alternative plugin that works on logic?


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## Ashermusic (Oct 24, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Ha! Funny, I was just about to post...
> 
> Has anyone used this?





I tried it at the NAMM show last year. I was disappointed.


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## babylonwaves (Oct 24, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> As in, I'm not very good at singing and therefore it yields very bad results


probably you're better than I am  - did you try to autotune your vocal performance first and then extract the MIDI data?


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## jononotbono (Oct 24, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I tried it at the NAMM show last year. I was disappointed.



I'm not surprised. I watched the videos and he sings something instantly it doesn't a basic line.

I actually bought the Imitone one as it was so cheap just to take a punt.
I've not used it since my initial couple of hours.

I'm not a great singer but I can pitch. I used to sing in a Church choir as a little kid and fronted my own Rock band played so many pub cover gigs when I was younger etc etc. So I'd say I can sing well enough to and definitely not tone death. 

I personally now think that none of this technology is there yet. Shame.


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## jononotbono (Oct 24, 2020)

babylonwaves said:


> probably you're better than I am  - did you try to autotune your vocal performance first and then extract the MIDI data?



I just wouldn't bother doing that to be honest. I'd just sing and play the notes on the keyboard via bad ear training. The whole reason I want something like this is for absolute speed. Sing into mic, hit a button, singing turns into midi notes, slight tweak and then put midi data on whatever.

I'll have another look in a couple of years.


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## babylonwaves (Oct 24, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I just wouldn't bother doing that to be honest. I'd just sing and play the notes on the keyboard via bad ear training. The whole reason I want something like this is for absolute speed. Sing into mic, hit a button, singing turns into midi notes, slight tweak and then put midi data on whatever.
> 
> I'll have another look in a couple of years.


still it is an interesting thing. I have melodies in my head which I cannot play just like that. Mostly Jazz stuff. But the real issue is that when I sing those things, I kind of drift in between notes. Maybe because I don't know the exact notes. In other words, chances are that all that will not make you faster unless you really know what you want to sing.


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## SergeD (Oct 24, 2020)

Why not just hum each sound on a single note of your keyboard and then adjust each pitch into the piano roll? It's very fast.


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## ManicMiner (Oct 24, 2020)

Melodyne "Essential" does it. Monophonic. For the Polyphonic you'd need a higher version.
I got ME bundled free I bought iZotope Nectar. (Your DAW must be able to handle ARA)


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## jononotbono (Oct 24, 2020)

SergeD said:


> Why not just hum each sound on a single note of your keyboard and then adjust each pitch into the piano roll? It's very fast.



Can you do that for every single note when singing fast phrases? 

It's so much faster singing notes than it is anything else. Hence why many devs have been trying to figure this out. And also why I started this thread to find one but I don't thinking exists yet.


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## SergeD (Oct 24, 2020)

Ok, let's try, could you sing every single note of "Dodging Bullets" as easily as "Spoiler Alert" ?

On one side; "Sing into mic, hit a button, singing turns into midi notes, slight tweak and then put midi data on whatever." On the other side; hit a unique key exactly as the melody in your mind and then adjust each pitch.

But I understand your point, having such a tool would be a very nice addon.


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## jononotbono (Oct 24, 2020)

SergeD said:


> But I understand your point, having such a tool would be a very nice addon.



Great.


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## goalie composer (Oct 26, 2020)

Just saw this. Not sure if it's what you're looking for...


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## el-bo (Oct 27, 2020)

goalie composer said:


> Just saw this. Not sure if it's what you're looking for...




Until I read through this thread, I hadn't realised there was much in the way of competition for this new 'Dubler'. But there definitely seems to be a few developers trying to get this right. 

What stands out for me with this package is the learning function for drums. Certainly makes a lot more sense than having to sing the corresponding MIDI notes for each drum hit.

Anybody here bought into the Imitone BETA?


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## MattBlostein (Oct 27, 2020)

I use JamOrigin MIDI Guitar 2. It works well with monophonic instruments and can be fine tuned.






Jam Origin – Audio to MIDI







www.jamorigin.com


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## TheCodeSorcerer (Jan 14, 2022)

I am working on a solution for Android and eventually iOS from same code-base. There is a free open source Android version to toy with, a prototype/sandbox app, very pre-alpha version but am just getting started. The github project took about a month or so time to "throw together". Much more to come (funded or not, just much faster if funded)...



https://github.com/esocoder/pitchinSandbox001


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## Junolab (Jan 15, 2022)

I think the question is not if it exists, but if a solution works well enough to actually be useful. Never heard of someone finding a proper solution (incl Melodyne)


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## TheCodeSorcerer (Jan 15, 2022)

Junolab, I agree. I don't understand why Imitone took so much time to "re-invent the wheel" as it were to create a pitch tracking algorithm as main focus since there are already so many adequate solutions for Pro Audio applications. In my case, being aware of nearly all the high-quality solutions for pitch tracking, it is a straight-forward task to implement on a given platform. I'm focusing on Android first, since it is the most problematic. Melodyne's algorithm is impressive - changing a major to minor chord and etc - I haven't used it that much but was satisfied with the sound quality of the algorithm's results and quite impressed. Next-level capabilities while striving for compact and fast-as-possible implementations are my primary design goals with what I've been working on throughout. Very good insight on your comments, I concur.


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## jononotbono (Jan 15, 2022)

Since creating this thread I bought and tried Imitone but it didn’t blow my skirt up. I haven’t tried the latest update. I’ll revisit this later in the year I think. I also want a Guitar solution that tracks very well so if anyone has suggestions for Guitar then I’d love to know about it.


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## TheCodeSorcerer (Jan 15, 2022)

Luke, same boat here too! I switched to monophonic endeavors once realizing polyphonic and other advanced "Auditory Scene Analysis" is a real pain in the a$$, let alone as a realtime solution on a mobile/embedded device. Those Roland GK-2 pickups? Hate those things, never tracked perfecrt either. I cannot remember the name on iOS but there is an app, AI-based I think, but does track pretty good, but unsure on trills, slides, etc. Moreover, I'm not going to let Skynet win so utilizing AI was out of the question. Well, I did explore it though, would use it if it could be smaller, fast enough to run on cheapo's GPU, or preferably without GPU nor the newer NDK Neural Net API, but quality lacked when size was decreased small enough to run CPU-only for anything close to real-time. Tried CREPE which I liked a lot, the full model, home-brewed, others but my personal dream is to have even older phones be little music creation devices and there ARE algorithms, non-machine learning, that CAN be implemented for real-time that will fit the bill. When I tried Imitone rather early on, the (windows I think) downloaded demo just immediately crashed, found Tartini and tons of research papers, and Imitone interest went to minimum attention. I didn't understand Imitone's (Evan's) time spent on more accurate pitch detection, aside from wanting to "solve himself" do entirely "from scratch" since as aforementioned, it's been a solved problem for a while (which in of itself is debatable, sure - "All models are wrong, but some are useful.")... but he could of saved a lot of time just sticking with what is known I think. The prototype I have above I whipped out in a month or so, not concerned with pitch quality, but overall proof-of-concept, works pretty good, so I will continue to use tried and true tehniques and should have a MUCH faster turn around time than Imitone. However, next-level "scene analysis" is on my mind too, very advanced never-before, first of its kind (anywhere) type apps. Like isolating tracks as desired in a Studio, individual mic's per drum, instrument etc but WITHOUT the mics, just an assortment of phones in "the swarm" and not even next to the instrument desired to be on an isolated track (would require as many microphones as are desired isolated sources)... Next-level


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## GtrString (Jan 15, 2022)

Midi Guitar 2 is the only game in town for guitar. It works as good as any previous Roland/ Axon solution, but it requires some tweaking and giving the algorithm time to learn over time.

If you dont get Melodyne, which is the king of audio-to-midi, maybe you have NI The Mouth already? Maybe that can do it? https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/effects/the-mouth/


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## TheCodeSorcerer (Jan 15, 2022)

MattBlostein, is JAM Origin the AI-based guitar tracking app I couldn't remember the name of? Sounds familiar... SKYNET! (haha, just kidding)... GuitarTuna I liked a lot, granted a tab/score/play-along file but yes, many years when I first got into DSP (2001-ish) polyphonic real-time transcription was on my mind often. I tried to solve myself in many ways without knowing all that was already out there, nor understanding it when I encountered. Today, the case is very different as I am well aware and experienced in the latest and greatest, at least in prototyping environs such as MATLAB and Python, and ready to rock to put something together we all really want. I've scoured so many research papers, I have a folder over 1 GB in nothing but PDFs, saved HTML, small images and PostScript. Even declassified pitch detection algorithms declassified (a DARPA baby) that works in EXTREME noise environs, such as machine gun fire, jack-hammers (divides by zero a lot, not bad, now has MATLAB implementation someone did, I think original author) but not suitable for real-time implementation (well, not ideal it's quite slow as is). The polyphonic AI solutions are pretty good but unsure if something comparable to what AI is now and undoubtedly will soon achieve (8 years tops, probably 4) in a more ... programmatic? humie-written (cause ya, AI is gonna learn to program REAL soon me thinks, "someone's" probably has or CAN already, dormant somewhere, somehow)...


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## TheCodeSorcerer (Jan 15, 2022)

Matt: Yes, I do believe this was the AI-based polyphonic real-time transcription/triggering I encountered as iOS app (but these kind are quickly becoming ubiquitous are they not?) I soon see the market flooding with production apps that continue to miniaturize and supersede the "old hat" ways of multi-track recording. Extreme bit fidelity, high sampling rate far above Nyquist, powerful CPU(s), GPUs and devoted DSP processors? We're at the cusp of a capability explosion, just a few years (I hope anyways). Sounds like a wave I'd like to ride 






Jam Origin – Audio to MIDI







www.jamorigin.com


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## ZenBYD (Jan 15, 2022)

If you're using pro tools btw, the latest versions can do this for you.


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## Trash Panda (Jan 15, 2022)

jononotbono said:


> Looks good. Anything I can use as a plugin, with Cubase?


It’s included in the Reaplugs suite, which is free. Worst case, you can always use Rewire and run it via Reaper inside Cubase.


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## TheCodeSorcerer (Jan 15, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> It’s included in the Reaplugs suite, which is free. Worst case, you can always use Rewire and run it via Reaper inside Cubase.


Nice! I did a bit of Pro Tools back in the day, nice to see it is still around and kicking. I haven't done studio work in a while but still blows my mind some of the software in music magazines is really expensive. I thought at some point the prices would drop to a degree, perhaps they have but unsure. Voice-to-MIDI does seem far more ubiquitous than it was years ago, perhaps even just five years ago. However, I have been out of the loop, as it were, on many new technologies, standards and hardware specifications in the Pro Audio field, including MIDI developments, still catching up on some things as I tackle this problematic Android sound situation. I wish that JVM (not Dalvik now, what is the new VM called? Ah, ART, which I'm sure is better) but as I understand it, aside from manufacturer choices, the Java VM is one of the real bottlenecks for getting the lowest latency in Android (but unsure on that point, might be incorrect conclusion). My Dad's newest iPhone is amazing, yet iOS and iPhone since 3 has like less than 5, prolly 1-3ms latency no problem. I guess Sammy Hagar's latest album, song or whatever was solely recorded with one ? (Something I heard, another musician friend, please verify that to know for sure but wouldn't be surprising!)... Anyways, thank you all for sharing your thoughts and comments here, I'm actively in the stage of designing/considering the final capabilities over the next few weeks of what and how PITCHIN will do Voice-to-MIDI with emphasis on music creation... if you read about the "no headphones" part, it quickly starts falling into the sequencer / DAW realm at that point, which wasn't unexpected down the road but to do the "no headphones" I would have to have it be a synth, to know what the signal I must cancel from synth output back into mic(s)... Otherwise the sound-system would have to provide a copy or stream of it's output and the Google C++ oboe library *may* provide this if SHARED output ports are possible (unknown if supported). Even still, that could be another latency can of worms in Android even if it is possible. The more advanced algorithms I've been exploring can "extract" melodies and voices with high enough quality to differentiate and isolate from a musical mixture fairly well, but significantly adds to the computational complexity and thus may not be possible in near real-time without fallout for many devices, old ones are out of the question (single cores, for example) and etc. I definitely enjoy learning about all the tools that are out there to know what I must keep up with and surpass, so please keep it coming 

Haha - Trash Panda, I like that. Perhaps I'll name an Audio Engine or some chunk of code that or "Powered by Trash Pandas", hehehe


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## TheCodeSorcerer (Jan 15, 2022)

ZenBYD said:


> If you're using pro tools btw, the latest versions can do this for you.



I see! Awesome, thank you for sharing, I was not aware of this.


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## TheCodeSorcerer (Jan 15, 2022)

GtrString said:


> Midi Guitar 2 is the only game in town for guitar. It works as good as any previous Roland/ Axon solution, but it requires some tweaking and giving the algorithm time to learn over time.
> 
> If you dont get Melodyne, which is the king of audio-to-midi, maybe you have NI The Mouth already? Maybe that can do it? https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/effects/the-mouth/


Oh noes! NOT Jam Origin, Midi Guitar 2 (does Jam Origin make Midi Guitar 2? I'll find out) but THIS is the one I played with briefly but my father who also plays guitar said it was comparable to what a GK-2A Roland Guitr Synth rig can do (I think it is better than that though)... Thank you for sharing and jogging some old memory banks into shape.
Mouth, eh? Will definitely check that one out. I bet they still all have, or most, have hefty price tags? I'll see, thanks for sharing, helps me catch up to what's current. Axon - haven't heard that one in a while, an actual Neural Network solution for faster attack detection - I think Roland's is what 40-ish ms whereas Axon was 10 or less (if I recall, not important anymore though really)... 
Thanks again for all the current, pro tools out there as I was unaware or of only superficial knowledge of the majority of tools, programs and such presented here.


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## JamelaBanderson (Jan 15, 2022)

Ableton can do it too: https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/converting-audio-to-midi/ 
My guess is that most DAWs have a feature that fits the bill before spending any additional $$ on plugins.


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## artomatic (Jan 15, 2022)

Then there's this.
Made my drum programming, etc., so much faster/easier!
Especially since I'm not an efficient keyboard player.


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## Trevor Meier (Jan 16, 2022)

artomatic said:


> Made my drum programming, etc., so much faster/easier!
> Especially since I'm not an efficient keyboard player.


Dubler 2 looks cool, but it feels way overpriced to me. Especially from a company with no track record


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## TheCodeSorcerer (Jan 16, 2022)

Trevor Meier said:


> Dubler 2 looks cool, but it feels way overpriced to me. Especially from a company with no track record


I too think the cost of music software is outrageous, established company or not. Of course, none of them will be the first to start dropping price as stuff becomes more common and implemented elsewhere (I'm guessing) if they can help it (profit motive, can't blame 'em I guess?) but musicians also often have little recourse (legal anyways, lol). Morever, writing essentially DSP applications, which is what they all essentially are to one degree or another, is hardly ever "easy" - quite the opposite generally! So the whole price situation is and seems to have been stagnant for some time. Huge, analog multi-track studios with anechoic chambers, etc, millions of dollars are quickly being replaced with phones (or well on their way). How many smaller, "modern" studios are able to pop up all over the place? Ever been to Nashville, lol? Anyways, as the rest of the business has little choice to change, the software "giants", and newcomers, all seem to be entirely disinterested in making any of their prices commensurate with cheap, smaller, faster, better as the rest of the technological facets in the industry. Yeah, I hate that shit. I want just a regular kid to be able to afford what I create, on their phone, just by bugging someone for a buck, maybe 5. I suppose an entire DAW might be 10-20, but the days of a $5-10k piece of software? "PHUK THAT NOISE!" screams in my mind. It's not like DSP algorithms are some "mystery art science" known only to "double Ph.D types and black budget world odessa/paperclip scientists" whatever, etc. Yeah, ridiculous prices.


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## SteveC (Jan 16, 2022)

jononotbono said:


> Can you do that for every single note when singing fast phrases?
> 
> It's so much faster singing notes than it is anything else. Hence why many devs have been trying to figure this out. And also why I started this thread to find one but I don't thinking exists yet.


I find that Studio One with integrated Melodyne can do this job pretty well. I have the editor version - not sure if it does any better than the cheaper ones. I have them because of the polyphonic editing option.


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## Gil (Jan 17, 2022)

Hello,
Logic Pro X can convert Audio to Midi using Flex Pitch.
Regards,
Gil.


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