# Questions on final deliverables Feature film



## Jetzer (May 21, 2017)

I landed my first feature film, a paid gig. A bit of an upgrade for me, until now I mostly did shorts or unpaid projects. I have received a contract, and I have some questions about the final deliverables required for the final film as stated in the contract (see list below).

I am used to just deliver the wave files. What is considered normal / required in the professional world? I basically work in my bedroom on Cubase, and don't even have Pro Tools. I am not sure what they mean with pro tools sessions hdd and dvd and what the -1 means. Also what is DAT format? I tried to google it, but couldn't really find anything useful.

This contract is for the background score. I can of course reply back and ask for clarification, but I also want to be sure I can actually deliver this one. The pay is not that great to justify buying pro-tools + renting a surround studio for mixing , but it might also be a good opportunity to step up my game. 


1. Final Mixed of all Song on a CD in WAV Format. DAT/CD Master (Mixed) containing all songs perfectly edited and Studio Master 24 Bit/ 96 kHz in both Stereo and 5.1 Surround and the underlying works embodied therein and other music approved by the Producer which shall be of an artistic, technical and commercial standard suitable for inclusion in the sound track of the Film for commercial exploitation and all the other items normally required for the same in accordance with standard industry usages, practices and procedures including Tapes or recording in any format as required by the Producer and more particularly specified herein.
2. Multi Tracks - Pro-Tool Sessions HDD and DVD
3. Master/-1 tracks/multi tracks (44.1KHz,16bits,48.0KHz,24bits,96.0KHz,24bits,MP3) and IT & STEMS
4. Mix master of Cut down of songs (freeplay duration between 2 minutes and 3 minutes/90 seconds/60 seconds/45 seconds/30 seconds) as required for promotion.
5. International Tracks (-1's) - Music without Vocals on HDD and DVD
6. The master tape of the master recording containing all the Song along with the variations/versions, if required to fit in the Film, in DAT format
7. The Minus-1s and the Multitracks, in DAT/MOD Format
8. Unmixed tracks, in DAT / MOD format
9. Fully mixed tracks of all the Song in DAT / MOD format
10. An international track (minus track) as a stereo mix
11. 12 to 18 stereo tracks mix-down of the Song (stems), either as a protools session of separate wav files with start and end beep or some other sort of reference. All files should be 48 kHz 24 bit WAV files
Thanks in advance


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## erica-grace (May 21, 2017)

There is some contradiction there - it almost seems as tho they copied and pasted that from somewhere else - with that _somewhere_ not relating to a film score. You _could_ ask them for clarification, but something tells me they are not going to have the ability and the knowledge to give it to you.

DAT = Digital Audio Tape. A format that is not really in use anymore, I don't think. This is one of the reasons I think this a copy and paste job.

Good luck!


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## d.healey (May 21, 2017)

I agree, this looks like a copy and paste of some old contract and instead of specifying what they need they've just put everything down


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## SillyMidOn (May 21, 2017)

Yep, clearly a copy and paste job - DAT went out of the window a while ago... (though I'm sure there is the odd person here and there using it). Politely point out that you need clarification on the items required, I very much doubt they want that many for a low paid job, or at least they shouldn't if the money is not great.


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## chillbot (May 21, 2017)

That is a load of gibberish. Even if it was up-to-date it's complete and total overkill. Good luck!

If they want stems, there's really no reason to give them a Pro Tools session, so long as all your stems all start at the exact same spot and are logically labeled. You can include timecode in the track name if you want to cover all your bases. If they really want a Pro Tools session, an OMF file will usually suffice. Does Cubase export OMF?

"-1" generally refers to tracks that are mixed without an element. Like if you have a lead guitar you'd give them a "Full Mix" and then a "-1" that is "No Guitar" and then maybe some other ones like "No Synth", "No Orch", "No Drums", whatever. I'm not 100% that's what this is referring to because it appears to have been written by a moron. But that's my guess.

Who still has a DAT?? (I do.)


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## Jetzer (May 21, 2017)

Thanks guys! Makes sense. I was afraid thinking I was really behind things or something. I will just do them a counter-offer that makes more sense. Yes Cubase exports OMF if needed.


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## Smikes77 (May 21, 2017)

chillbot said:


> That is a load of gibberish. Even if it was up-to-date it's complete and total overkill. Good luck!
> 
> If they want stems, there's really no reason to give them a Pro Tools session, so long as all your stems all start at the exact same spot and are logically labeled. You can include timecode in the track name if you want to cover all your bases. If they really want a Pro Tools session, an OMF file will usually suffice. Does Cubase export OMF?
> 
> ...



This post made me chuckle.


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## gsilbers (May 21, 2017)

Jesse Heslinga said:


> I landed my first feature film, a paid gig. A bit of an upgrade for me, until now I mostly did shorts or unpaid projects. I have received a contract, and I have some questions about the final deliverables required for the final film as stated in the contract (see list below).
> 
> I am used to just deliver the wave files. What is considered normal / required in the professional world? I basically work in my bedroom on Cubase, and don't even have Pro Tools. I am not sure what they mean with pro tools sessions hdd and dvd and what the -1 means. Also what is DAT format? I tried to google it, but couldn't really find anything useful.
> 
> ...





Let me see if i can figure this out. this is my forte actually (sadly)...

From what i see seems they are asking for archivals and also what you deliver for stage re-recording mixing. The archival would be more for any distribution deal and to make sure they are covered if something happens. (someone else claims a right on a specific track, any foriegn dubbers want to sing on top of the music, etc) 

Since they are requesting a beep on some sort for reference and they also ask for DAT seems they want a stems that they could easily be synced up to a master tape or video file. (load up the master video, import your music stem and everything syncs up) So they want both the separate tracks and also on long ass track the length of the film with all the songs on it. This is normally done by the re-recording stage but who knows. 

They seem to want mixes minus an instrument and also normal stems. I am guessing if you have a track that features classical guitar on top of pads and percusion, then a mix of that track without the guitar. 
This way editors on stage dont have to remix the stems. 

The international track without vocals is self explanatory and as i mentioned above, it is for foriegn dubbers to be able to sing on top of it and not have the English lyrics. If you are not delivering songs with vocals then dont worry about it. 

The odd thing is that they want so many sample rates. 48k is the standard. but they might want to release a CD in itunes and will need 44.1. I dont think they really want 96k. but you might have to upsample those wav files. just watch out with the sync as changing sample rates can change the length of the track. 
Or maybe talk to the re-recoding mixer and ask him what he prefers. They might be mixing in 96k. 

Nowadays no one delivers in DAT. plus DATs for deliverables doesnt do more than 48k. so ask if you can deliver DVD archivals which is the norm.

They also seem to be really asking for commercial songs. i dont think they would ever use the guitar and pad example i mentioned above for commercials/cutdown. but a pop song on top song on top of that then yes. do cut downs. 

12- 18 track stereo mix stem down!? damn that probabbly all individual tracks for you. They might be talking about all stems from all cues if you but them all in one timeline. so if one cue in all the movie has flute then thats one stereo stem. but if there is pad on all cues then all those pads in one stem thats the length of all the movie. 



so i woudlnt worry about unmixed tracks or cut downs if they are not songs. 


If i where you i would rent protools for a month. 
and in cubase you do your stems like most poeple do. 
maybe you want to mix in 5.1 but many projects composers deliver stereo and the re-recording stage does the 5.1 mix but you woudlnt know how it sounds. so maybe mix in 5.1 in cubase. 
So all your routings go to the 5.1 output. and from that 5.1 output your downmix to stereo. you should monitor both so you can listen and make sure they both sound right. 
do your project in 48k (same rate as your movie they are sending you)

Seems for the re-recording stage you can deliver each cue final mix separalty. which imo is the only thing they need but for archival you can do the following. 

once you finish everything you export all your final stems of each session and build a one session master in pro tools. do it first in 48k 24bit. load up all your Stems and mixes. then do a mixdown of different stereo mixes (-1)
Name that session something like "submixes" 

do a save as and create the master file session. and remove any extra tracks and busses. 
edit the regions so they have fades, no bad edits etc. you name the tracks acordignyl and also create a 1k tone 2pop starting 2seconds before picture. and at the end of picture. then consolodate (glue) that track to the length of the video file master.
and do the same with all tracks. (stems, submixes, 5.1/stereo) 


Now do the archival sessions. 
create new sessions. one for 48k and one for 96 ok. once opened, do an import session data and change the sample rate to 96k. pro tools has presets for this. use one that doenst change pitch or time. import the tracks you need. 

then create another new session but keep it at 48k. do the same and import the tracks from the master session. 
this new session will not have the extra regions or audio files. it will import only the consolidated track which will be copied to the audio files folder. this is the session you deliver. same with the 96k. 
that way anyone who recieves it can locate the audio files easily without opening pro tools and also use pro tools if needed. 

so again, i would ask if delivering only data DVDS is ok. I woudnt do the unmixed tracks and also if there are no commercial songs, dont do the cut downs and if there are no vocals tracks then dont do an international stem. 

ask if they really need 96k. 

to me this is really what they want; 

1- one dvd with final mixes stereo and 5.1. 48k 24 bit. all cues separate (add time code info on the file name. 

2- one dvd with a pro tools archival session in 96k with mixes and stems and submixes. All to be one long wav file the lentgh of the movie. 

dont do split DVDs. if its too big for one dvd then make several archival sessions, one for stems. one for submixes and one for final mixes. still make sure a guy with protools can simply import session data from those different dvds and all those tracks will line up. and he will ONLY see those tracks . (and not like a buss with effects, or a track you didnt delete. you put ONLY the main track you need for that stem. so in the stems dvd there shoudlnt be mixes in the audio files folder and vice versa)

3. same as number two but in 48k 24 bit. 


4- 1 CD data with the track in 44.1.


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## Jetzer (May 21, 2017)

@gsilbers Wow! Thanks for that long and elaborate post. 

I am awaiting their answer


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## Scoremixer (May 21, 2017)

Total gibberish bullshit, looks like it's been cut and pasted from a variety of delivery spec sheets from the past 2 decades, seemingly for both film, album and library music deliverables.

Seems to me the only deliverable that's actually relevant is number 11- a sensible set of stereo stems that the dub can use to make music edits and 5.1 upmixes from.

If the money's not great then I'd encourage production to send over a hard drive onto which you can back up all the materials pertaining to the project at the end for their archives. Either way, I'd virtually guarantee that no-one will ever be bothered to verify the contents!


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## gsilbers (May 21, 2017)

Jesse Heslinga said:


> @gsilbers Wow! Thanks for that long and elaborate post.
> 
> I am awaiting their answer




Also keep in mind your contact might not know. He is only forwarding what someone else gave them.
It's easier if the movie already has distribution and you know who they are as it helps to see the type of deliverables.

The ones you posted has a mixed bag of things which might be that it's the rerecording mixers job to deliver some part of it.

But most importantly talk to your contact with the asumption they don't know either but without making them feel bad. 
And sway them to take DVDs if they say dat and expain dats is not longer a thing. But In a nice way. 
They don't know and you don't know what they need so if you enter into it thinking like this it'll be easier and might encounter less push back. 

I've seen industry veterans making deliverables and they won't follow the specs just because they are so damn complicated. They just know from previous gigs or the specs have a list at the end that's all they follow. The rest is obvious.

Over a decade doing this stuff for network tv shows , international stuff and indie movies and it's always the same with the specs. There is a story behind them and you need to find out what it is.
It's also a great way to get more face time with producers and help them out and make them feel your concern about their project. Yes they should be able to get you exactly what you need and that's their jobs but at the same time you don't know their story and what's happening and it's still a creative field where it's people helping each other.
Just by seeing that they require dats it could be , like others have mentioned, they copy paiste from something else which they might have done so because they might not know what they want and copy something from an old movie they did a decade ago. 
It also helps you know if they got a bigger deal with distribution which will make you be more attentive for the next movie. 

Anyways, I wished I could write this much about music stuff and maybe have a YouTube channel about it but deliverables and mastering post is not the most interesting topic


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## SillyMidOn (May 22, 2017)

Jesse Heslinga said:


> @gsilbers Wow! Thanks for that long and elaborate post.
> 
> I am awaiting their answer


Maybe ask them if they want a version on MiniDisc and Betamax as well


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## Dean (May 22, 2017)

@gsilbers you knowledge re deliverables is impressive,..actually scared the crap out of me.I just scored a pretty big film,I supplied stereo mixes and stems for all cues plus 5.1 & 7.1 mixes of all the same [7.1 for IMAX] all in 24bit/48khz. I was'nt asked for any of that other stuff at all,..I assumed with stems they can pretty much make what they want themselves including the score for release,..thats ALOT of extra work re -1 versions/bit rates/formats etc,etc,,..sounds like they're building a future synch library ready to go for very little money? D


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## chillbot (May 24, 2017)

SillyMidOn said:


> Maybe ask them if they want a version on MiniDisc and Betamax as well


Who still has a minidisc player?? (I do.)


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## chillbot (May 24, 2017)

Off topic.... I still have this desk set up in the other room... if you come to my studio I will play your minidisc, DAT, cassette, or CD for you.


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## SillyMidOn (May 24, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Who still has a minidisc player?? (I do.)


I do, too. I used to record jazz gigs I went to on them, I've got a great selection of bootleg Esbjörn Svensson Trio (EST), Herbie Hancock, Branford Marsalis etc live recordings. I have this tiny little sony stereo mic that you plug in - amazing quality.


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## Jetzer (May 25, 2017)

They seem ok with just the wav file, maybe stems if necessary. Thanks for all the info!


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## lumcas (May 25, 2017)

SillyMidOn said:


> Maybe ask them if they want a version on MiniDisc and Betamax as well



And don't forget U-Matic and VHS copy while you're at it


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## Andrew Goodwin (May 25, 2017)

SillyMidOn said:


> Maybe ask them if they want a version on MiniDisc and Betamax as well


They may prefer wax cylinder . I track everything straight to them. Anyway Good luck with the deal though. I'm not at all high up but I have dealt with a few production people and often they are forwarding along something they aren't so knowledgeable about


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 26, 2017)

If the editor uses Pro Tools, I would personally send a PT session file that has all of your cues locked into the picture already (if you can get the final cut from them). You could just sign up for a free Pro Tools trial, or get a one month subscription for $30. They also can't expect 96 kHz files unless you are going to record it all at that rate...which is ridiculous. I've never been asked for anything higher than 48/24.


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## John Busby (May 26, 2017)

Congrats landing the gig Jesse!
best of luck (thumbs up!)


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## Jetzer (May 26, 2017)

Thanks @johnbusbymusic !


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## gsilbers (May 26, 2017)

Dean said:


> @gsilbers you knowledge re deliverables is impressive,..actually scared the crap out of me.I just scored a pretty big film,I supplied stereo mixes and stems for all cues plus 5.1 & 7.1 mixes of all the same [7.1 for IMAX] all in 24bit/48khz. I was'nt asked for any of that other stuff at all,..I assumed with stems they can pretty much make what they want themselves including the score for release,..thats ALOT of extra work re -1 versions/bit rates/formats etc,etc,,..sounds like they're building a future synch library ready to go for very little money? D



Yes, thats why mentioned to ask to verify who is really delivering the specs above as they seem to be an hyrbid between the composer and the re recording mixer. 

And sometimes the production company is supplyign those specs but the re recording mixer can deal eith the stems. 
but i am guessing other times the producers want to have stems mixes without an instrument etc to use in promos, 
any edits and foriegn versions where they need to censor random crap from random S&P notes of each ocuntry its being distributed. but what you mentioned you delivered is the norm imo. and yes, they might be asking for their own music library. Ive encountered these types of spec more from foriegn distirbutors. Like 44.1 non pitched pal and so on. but they are very odd and usually made after the film is mixed.


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## gsilbers (May 26, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> If the editor uses Pro Tools, I would personally send a PT session file that has all of your cues locked into the picture already (if you can get the final cut from them). You could just sign up for a free Pro Tools trial, or get a one month subscription for $30. They also can't expect 96 kHz files unless you are going to record it all at that rate...which is ridiculous. I've never been asked for anything higher than 48/24.



You can do up mixes to 96k and no one will ever know.


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## gsilbers (May 26, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Off topic.... I still have this desk set up in the other room... if you come to my studio I will play your minidisc, DAT, cassette, or CD for you.



I knew you had a side hussle transfering old formats


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