# Where to find clients - online session work



## thesteelydane (Apr 20, 2016)

Hi everyone

As some of you probably know, I do online string session work for a living. I've done quite a few things for people here, but it's not enough to live on, so I'm looking to get more work from bands and producers in "non-media" music (as in rock, pop, singer song writer). This may be a stupid place to ask that question, but VIC has been by far the friendliest forum I've been on, so why not. I would particularly love to get more work as an arranger in addition to the session stuff. 

I've tried posting on the Sound on Sound forum, as well as Gearslutz, but it seems completely random when people find me on there. I also tried a paid Facebook advert, and that resulted in exactly no at work at all. My newest approach is hitting up producers on LinkedIn, but to email people directly there is very expensive, and if too many people reject your attempt at connecting with them because they don't know you, your account gets restricted. 

Any other strategies I could employ? Forums I've overlooked? Being stuck in Vietnam doesn't help, I have to do all my networking through the internet. 

Thanks in advance....


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## Mike Greene (Apr 20, 2016)

Google these keywords: online session players
You'll see some sites where people like you offer their services. I've never used any, so I can't vouch for them, but it might be a good place to list yourself.

Regarding Facebook ads, that would be almost impossible for your situation, since most of their targeting methods are going to be very, very broad compared to the ultra-specific service you're offering. Unfortunately, although it is possible to target people who "Like" Logic (or ProTools or Native Instruments, etc), it is not possible to target "composers" or "record producers." So if you buy a Facebook ad, the net you're casting is very wide and will go mostly to people who will never spend a penny on their music. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, because for Realitone, I would love to be able to do better targeting.)


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## thesteelydane (Apr 20, 2016)

Thanks Mike, I appreciate it. Yeah I learned the Facebook lesson the hard way, and it also struck me that exactly the people I try to reach, especially singer song writers, may be put off by a Facebook ad. 

I also tried posting on a few song writer forums, but they are very strict about what they see as self promotion. I'm considering a small banner ad on Gearslutz now.


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## RiffWraith (Apr 20, 2016)

Honestly, most of this type of business is found through word of mouth and referrals. You could try hitting recording studios - both small/local and major - in various countries, with the angle of, "hey - I do online string session work. If you have any clients in need of xyz (list your skills here), then please have them get in touch with me at [email protected]. Here is a link to previous work I have done."

You aren't likely to get a ton of work like that, but you never now - it might be worth the effort.

Also, try hitting up some marketplaces for online session work. _airgigs.com _is one that I know of.

Maybe take out an ad on MLR? Talk about a place filled with composers...

Good luck!


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## ag75 (Apr 20, 2016)

I agree with Riff, almost all of this type of work is through word of mouth. Drop by some studios and meet some of these producers in person. When It comes to this type of work they almost always hire people they have met in person. Also do a couple of arangments for free or at a deep discount so they get to know your work style and abilities. These people almost always hire the same people over and over so once you're in, you're in for good. 

Also Pete Whitfield has a great website, real strings.com, where he offers string arrangements. You might get some tips on advertising from his site: http://www.realstrings.com


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## thesteelydane (Apr 20, 2016)

ag75 said:


> I agree with Riff, almost all of this type of work is through word of mouth. Drop by some studios and meet some of these producers in person. When It comes to this type of work they almost always hire people they have met in person. Also do a couple of arangments for free or at a deep discount so they get to know your work style and abilities. These people almost always hire the same people over and over so once you're in, you're in for good.
> 
> Also Pete Whitfield has a great website, real strings.com, where he offers string arrangements. You might get some tips on advertising from his site: http://www.realstrings.com


 
Thanks for your suggestions, and I know they're true, the problem is I can't. I'm stuck in Hanoi, and must rely solely on the Internet. I have had busy periods, but now there's nothing going on, and as I said I would like to get more work arranging than just recording, and expand into fields than just music for media. 

As for working in the music industry here, it's not really possible. The level in general is abysmally low, and the pay even worse. On the classical side the full time pay for working in Vietnam National Symphony Orchestra is about 200 USD a month, and they sound like a bad, bad amateur orchestra. The pop industry is run essentially by one man, who apart from having no talent or skill whatsoever, has no interest in letting a foreigner in on the scene. It's all party politics here, and there is no interest in moving things forward or experimentation. I honestly can't imagine any other country where you could be one of the absolute best at what you, and in this country I am, and have absolutely nothing to do. 

So, I have to grow my business using only online means and a few old connections. Moving back to Europe in the fall, but I have to survive until then.


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## SillyMidOn (Apr 21, 2016)

thesteelydane said:


> Thanks for your suggestions, and I know they're true, the problem is I can't. I'm stuck in Hanoi, and must rely solely on the Internet. I have had busy periods, but now there's nothing going on, and as I said I would like to get more work arranging than just recording, and expand into fields than just music for media.
> 
> As for working in the music industry here, it's not really possible. The level in general is abysmally low, and the pay even worse. On the classical side the full time pay for working in Vietnam National Symphony Orchestra is about 200 USD a month, and they sound like a bad, bad amateur orchestra. The pop industry is run essentially by one man, who apart from having no talent or skill whatsoever, has no interest in letting a foreigner in on the scene. It's all party politics here, and there is no interest in moving things forward or experimentation. I honestly can't imagine any other country where you could be one of the absolute best at what you, and in this country I am, and have absolutely nothing to do.
> 
> So, I have to grow my business using only online means and a few old connections. Moving back to Europe in the fall, but I have to survive until then.



Have you thought of producing your own music and working for libraries? You can do that from anywhere.


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## Barrie B (Apr 21, 2016)

www.sessionexchange.org

Worth a look!


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## thesteelydane (Apr 21, 2016)

Barrie B said:


> www.sessionexchange.org
> 
> Worth a look!


Thanks, I signed up a few days ago, still waiting for approval.


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## thesteelydane (Apr 21, 2016)

SillyMidOn said:


> Have you thought of producing your own music and working for libraries? You can do that from anywhere.



Making my living from my own music is the long term dream and plan. This was supposed to be my day job, while I studied film scoring, because let's face it, it's what I've trained to do my whole life, and I have invested in building a recording space in my house. And don't get me wrong, it's working, I have clients, they are very happy with the work I do, I just need more of them. I would especially love to do more arranging for independent bands and singer song writers - it's the creatively most satisfying part of the job to me.


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## lucky909091 (Apr 21, 2016)

Being a musician is a very hard job today. What you say about the situation in your country is a sad thing.
So I can understand that you will return to Europe in fall. I wish you most of luck for this plan.

If I would be a great musician and young,too, I would try my luck in the USA. There are so many challenges and possibilities in this extraordinary country.


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## Hannes_F (Apr 21, 2016)

lucky909091 said:


> If I would be a great musician and young,too, I would try my luck in the USA. There are so many challenges and possibilities in this extraordinary country.



Two numbers: A survey from 2012 says that the medium income of music school graduates in the *US *is USD 41600/year.
http://money.futureofmusic.org/going-to-music-school/

An survey from 2014 says that the medium income of performing+recording musicians in *Germany *is EUR 12500/year, for women even EUR 10000/year. As a consequence performing+recording musicians by and large can not live any longer from their profession here. I know I can't.
http://www.musikmachen.de/blog/musiker-kommen-mit-honoraren-nicht-ueber-die-runden/


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## lucky909091 (Apr 21, 2016)

Hannes, this is really a shame. You got a PN.


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## Greg (Apr 21, 2016)

Most recently was looking for a saxist and ended up in a gearslutz thread praising Dan Boissy http://www.danboissy.com/ (he wasn't involved in any self marketing or posts there that I saw). The testimonials from a couple people got me onto his website which is very professional. That then lead to me emailing and hiring him.


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## rgames (Apr 21, 2016)

Hannes_F said:


> Two numbers: A survey from 2012 says that the medium income of music school graduates in the *US *is USD 41600/year.
> http://money.futureofmusic.org/going-to-music-school/
> 
> An survey from 2014 says that the medium income of performing+recording musicians in *Germany *is EUR 12500/year, for women even EUR 10000/year. As a consequence performing+recording musicians by and large can not live any longer from their profession here. I know I can't.
> http://www.musikmachen.de/blog/musiker-kommen-mit-honoraren-nicht-ueber-die-runden/


Maybe OT - but I think it's really hard to compare the two.

First, Germany has a much larger social safety net, so you can get by with a lower income in Germany (or anywhere in Europe, for that matter). Second, the US study shows that the amount of money that musicians make from performing is pretty small - most of the income is in teaching (and what, exactly, does "salaried" mean?). So if the German study excluded income from teaching (you say "performing+recording") then they might actually be a lot closer, especially when considering the lower income required due to German social programs.

rgames


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## thesteelydane (Apr 21, 2016)

Oh my, this has turned into a rather depressing thread, hasn't it? When I studied the dream and life I pictured for myself was winning a job in an orchestra. It never happened, but I came close enough in auditions a few times to be able to work pretty much full time as a freelancer, with many long contracts along the way. After doing that for ten years, and suffering a near career ending playing induced shoulder injury along the way, I got sick of it. Playing other (dead) people's music, following other peoples creative vision. I was so jealous of my friends in the jazz/pop world and their creative freedom and entrepreneurial spirit. And I had music that only existed in my head, and it grew louder and needed to come out. I dreamed of making a living from my own music, but when you're a classical freelancer, you spend all your time practicing because it's fiercely competitive, and you need to keep in shape physically in the instrument all the time. And do auditions, which is mentally and financially exhausting. And then Vietnam and this girl happened, and I said f*^k it, I'm following my dream now: Study film scoring by night, make money doing online session work by day. And now I know from having been hanging out here, that becoming a succesful film composer is probably even harder than winning a job in a good orchestra, although the dynamics of it are different - less skill, more connection/social skills oriented. And now I'm 40, going back to Europe and live as a musician again is almost impossible, I can't stay here, I hate Hanoi and the lack of a professional music scene, the air pollution and chemicals in the food, I haven't even started on my composer career (and don't know where to begin), and my session work business is up and running, but threatening to crash at any moment. Talk about being stuck. And even if things are better in the US, how the hell do I get a green card when I can't afford one of those expensive immigration lawyers?

Ok, rant over, I'll find a way. Other people have found their paths, I will find mine.


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## thesteelydane (Apr 21, 2016)

Now, with all that out of the way, if anyone has any suggestion on how to connect with independent singer song writers and bands, over the internet, I'd be eternally grateful. I'm getting a decent amount of media music work already, it's the other side of the business (I hate that word) that I'm interested in.


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## Hannes_F (Apr 21, 2016)

rgames said:


> First, Germany has a much larger social safety net, so you can get by with a lower income in Germany


Richard, not exactly sure how you think the social safety net helps me with my income. Because actually it does not (not that it wouldn't be nice). Our social system would help if I would get fired from an employment (not applicable for a self-employed person like me) but not as an additional allowance. You only get unemployment compensation if you 1. have been employed before and 2. are not working at all. It is not an "extra" for low earning artists - that would be great.

The point where I do see some help is health insurance for musicians which is supported. Not applicable for me too because I supplement my music income with DJing (which is better than Taxi driving for me), and that is not "art" enough.

My net surplus in 2014 in total (from performing, recording, DJing and teaching in university) was EUR 8500 for the year, that is about EUR 700 per month for accomodation, food, clothing, private car driving, insurance, retirement funds, holidays and all further private living expenses. Compared to the rest of the society I am below living wage, and that is the sober truth.

I am not complaining, actually I regard myself as rich compared to most other people on the planet. But I don't see where the social safety net has anything to do with me.


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## AVaudio (Apr 21, 2016)

Hi, I don't know if this will be of any help, but there are guys like him out there :

http://www.eumes.cat/en/instructors/ivan-torrent/

that have been developing a solid music production career, both locally with live musicians and sometimes also working mostly with samples and some live parts, to the point of getting to collaborate with some famous music companies, like Audiomachine. Lots of different producers in their albums, as I understand. Maybe trying to get introduced to that kind of people could be of help to you. For sure they will have their own arrangers and musicians, but you never know. Maybe they can refer you to other people as well. It's always risky to cold-contact people, but now with the social networks it's a bit less harsh.

It's though when your country sucks in relation to what you have chosen as your dedication. Good luck!


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