# [noob question] Do I need an audio interface? What should I be looking at?



## whiskers (Dec 6, 2018)

I'm pretty sure the answer to the first question is yes. Let me attempt to explain my current setup concisely. I'm hoping you all might be able to point me in the right direction, seems there's so many options out there.
Ideal budget - 250$ or under

* Sennheisher HD598
* 2x JBL LSR305 Monitors
* MIDI over USB from keyboard to host PC
* Mic attached to headphones going to mic in jack on PC (not used for music)

I absolutely love the sound of both my speakers and headphones, but notice (I think due to some EM noise in my motherboard and the amps in the LSRs?) a light hiss/static from the LSRs when 'at rest' and not playing anything. Occasionally they'll be quite noisy if i'm playing a video or a game, but fortunately not when in Cubase. 

The only instrument I'm really using is the MIDI controller, so it's not like I have to jack in a mic or guitar. In that way I don't feel like it's a strict need right now, but was wondering about it. Seems like even composers of orchestral/instrumental music have them, so I'm sure there's some kind of benefit.

Would the MIDI controller be still routed to the PC, or would it go through the interface? I'd like to find an interface that allows you to switch between both the monitors and the headphones, or even more idea, allows you to separately control the volume of each.

If you're feeling rather gracious, I'd love an explanation of 'why' to chose 'what' in an interface, but i know that's a bit of a vague question. Seems like some Behringers, Focusrite, or Steinbergs may fit the bill?

Thanks in advance for any information


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## MarcelM (Dec 6, 2018)

i have the same speakers, and they sound fantastic with the audient id22, focusrite forte or my new old apogee duet firewire. id suggest you get the audient id22 (used). you absolutely need an interface alone for the balanced output. a used focusrite forte will also do very very nice, and all of the interfaces are better than the behringer or steinberg ones.

you will hear quite alot more detail and more depth.

my midi controller is connected through usb.


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## whiskers (Dec 6, 2018)

Thanks for your input!



MarcelM said:


> a used focusrite forte will also do very very nice, and all of the interfaces are better than the behringer or steinberg ones.



curious as to why you think that?



MarcelM said:


> my midi controller is connected through usb


 Directly to your PC with your DAW, I assume?


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## MarcelM (Dec 6, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Thanks for your input!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yes. i had steinberg, behringer, audient, focusrite, apogee and some more interfaces.

up to 1k$ there is nothing what beats the audient id 22 when it comes to dac/adc, and the focusrite forte really gets close. tascam uh 7000 also very good and so is the focusrite clarett (forte has same converters afaik)


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## dzilizzi (Dec 6, 2018)

Yes, you should probably have an interface. PC soundcards are not usually very good. With a Mac you might get away with it because the core audio is actually good. I'd recommend an RME Babyface if you could afford it. Just need it for your mic and speakers out. Very low latency. 

That said, I am fairly happy with my Focusrite 6i6, though I get BSD sometimes when I update stuff. And I have a Digi MBox2 mini that actually works well for its age.


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## whiskers (Dec 6, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, you should probably have an interface. PC soundcards are not usually very good. With a Mac you might get away with it because the core audio is actually good. I'd recommend an RME Babyface if you could afford it. Just need it for your mic and speakers out. Very low latency.
> 
> That said, I am fairly happy with my Focusrite 6i6, though I get BSD sometimes when I update stuff. And I have a Digi MBox2 mini that actually works well for its age.



could I afford it? Yeah, technically. Just seems a lot for my untrained ears, when I don't yet even know what I need 

Why did you opt for the 6i6 vs some of the lower models? Do you plug in instruments and play in tracks? Or was there some other reasoning (like better components)?

Cheers :3


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## MarcelM (Dec 6, 2018)

whiskers said:


> could I afford it? Yeah, technically. Just seems a lot for my untrained ears, when I don't yet even know what I need
> 
> Why did you opt for the 6i6 vs some of the lower models? Do you plug in instruments and play in tracks? Or was there some other reasoning (like better components)?
> 
> Cheers :3



if you are on mac you can really consider the old apogee firewire duet if your budget is somewhat limited. i picked one up for 50 eur and its really really good. better than steinberg ur22 etc.

the babyface has best latency, thats true but the audient sounds quite alot better. i didnt have the babyface pro though, but that one is like 700 or 800 bucks.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 6, 2018)

I wanted to plug in 2 mics. And I wanted the ability to expand if needed.


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## whiskers (Dec 6, 2018)

MarcelM said:


> if you are on mac you can really consider the old apogee firewire duet if your budget is somewhat limited. i picked one up for 50 eur and its really really good. better than steinberg ur22 etc.
> 
> the babyface has best latency, thats true but the audient sounds quite alot better. i didnt have the babyface pro though, but that one is like 700 or 800 bucks.



I'm on PC, but thanks . Looking for USB only.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 6, 2018)

This is a good thread to go through if you are looking at buying an audio interface:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mus...erface-low-latency-performance-data-base.html

I think there are a couple inexpensive ones that aren't bad - i.e. good to start with. I don't know if I would recommend the Focusrite Solo. Although it would probably be enough, the only output jacks are RCA ones. And a headphone jack. It is my travel one, so I didn't need speakers with it. 

The latency can be bothersome when you are looking a wave forms to try to find a sound and the scrolling thing is not matching to what you are hearing. Otherwise, when you record, use the direct monitor and you won't notice anything.


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## jbuhler (Dec 6, 2018)

I like to think of the audio interfaces as part of the mystical arts of this business. My theory on these mystical arts is you address them when things don't seem right. If you are happy with the sound you are getting and if your mixes seem to transfer well to other systems, then why worry about it? That said, a basic interface would likely sound better than your current set-up, and it would take both headphones and monitors and allow you to have different volume controls for each, but look carefully at the options because some make these controls more straightforward than others. (I started with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 that someone recommended to me when I was a noob at this, and it has nice separate controls for both headphones and monitors, with easy access to the headphone jack.) In any case, once you get a basic audio interface and find what you like and don't like about your set up—you start to record a lot of live music, or you find you need lower latency, or decide it would be nice to send reverbs or do other processing on a different machine to take some of the load off the computer, or you add surround channels, or you need more complex routing, etc.—you can look at higher priced interfaces to handle what you need.


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## ka00 (Dec 6, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I started with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2



That’s what I bought as well about a year ago. Still does the trick for me.


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## bill5 (Dec 7, 2018)

MarcelM said:


> i have the same speakers, and they sound fantastic with the audient id22, focusrite forte or my new old apogee duet firewire. id suggest you get the audient id22 (used). you absolutely need an interface alone for the balanced output.


 ? For what? He's totally in the MIDI world. 



> a used focusrite forte will also do very very nice, and all of the interfaces are better than the behringer or steinberg ones.


Not really.



> you will hear quite alot more detail and more depth.


Not really. 

To each their own, but I'd rather buy new vs getting something you really can't be sure of in terms of how good of shape it's in, it's age etc. And having used all, IMO there is no real diff in quality of the Behringers (of today) and Steinburgs to Focusrite or Audient.


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## MarcelM (Dec 7, 2018)

bill5 said:


> ? For what? He's totally in the MIDI world.
> 
> Not really.
> 
> ...



there is a huge difference, or someone has bad ears. i have had them all and an audient id22 beats any steinberg or behringer by far.


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## silverlight7 (Dec 8, 2018)

Just curious, is an audio interface (even a Focusrite 2i2) significantly better than a stock IDT High Definition Audio card in a laptop? Will I notice a big difference on my Focal Alpha 80's?

The Audient id22 is a little expensive for me at the moment -- will the Focusrite 2i2 suffice?


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## MarcelM (Dec 8, 2018)

silverlight7 said:


> Just curious, is an audio interface (even a Focusrite 2i2) significantly better than a stock IDT High Definition Audio card in a laptop? Will I notice a big difference on my Focal Alpha 80's?
> 
> The Audient id22 is a little expensive for me at the moment -- will the Focusrite 2i2 suffice?



it will. i dont know how much since i didnt have the 2i2, but ofcourse usually audio interfaces have better DAC than onboard soundchips. you may consider the audient id14 maybe.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 8, 2018)

I think the biggest problem for a PC is ASIO is not a normal driver for sound cards. ASIO4ALL works okay but you can get some errors and crashes using it. So an external sound card with and ASIO driver is needed. Most DAWs prefer ASIO on a PC. Windows sound drivers are not usually able to handle the work of most DAWs as well as an ASIO driver. This may have changed but I doubt it. 

If you buy a MAC, you don't really need the external audio device because the core audio driver is the Mac's version of ASIO.


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## storyteller (Dec 8, 2018)

“Huge” is relative to how well you train your ears. To me, an outboard DAC is the first thing I take care of. If you know what to listen for, you will realize how different it sounds than a stock motherboard DAC. If you want to explore *how* it sounds differently, listen for “squishiness” compared to “openness and clarity.” Typically it is most prominently noticeable in the sibilant areas.


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## whiskers (Dec 9, 2018)

Thanks for the thoughts so far, folks. Will continue to consider which one to get


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## MartinH. (Dec 9, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Thanks for the thoughts so far, folks. Will continue to consider which one to get



Haven't read all replies. Just wanted to say imho the main reason to get a dedicated audio interface over a regular consumer soundcard (be it internal, onboard chip or external) is that the professional ones all should come with asio drivers that offer lower latency, which is important for recording midi or guitars with live effects on them. I'm quite happy with my small Focusrite (don't know which one exactly I have, it's on the lower end for sure), and I'd recommend to stay away from the NI Komplete Audio one, had a lot of trouble with that and sold it on ebay. There were threads about the issue on forums, but no fix. Never had the same issues with my Focusrite interface.


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## whiskers (Dec 11, 2018)

thinking a bit more about this. If I don't need really any inputs, just two outputs, I think that'd narrow down the list quite a bit. Still not sure on what exactly I'd want/need though. Really have all sorts of options, I just don't know how different one brand is going to be from another (aside from build quality)


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## JohnG (Dec 11, 2018)

whiskers said:


> I just don't know how different one brand is going to be from another (aside from build quality)



It's the drivers -- the software -- that can make a big difference. Most of the "good" interfaces are not bad, but some of the very inexpensive solutions are awful.

I use RME interfaces because they are incredibly solid. Writing music is hard enough without worrying about that kind of nonsense, so I tend to over-spend to have plenty of computer / hardware capacity so I don't run out in the middle of a piece.

The internal (PCIe-based ones) have slightly less latency than the others, but these days with Thunderbolt and USB 3.1 I would be surprised if it makes a meaningful difference which kind you use.



MarcelM said:


> there is a huge difference, or someone has bad ears. i have had them all and an audient id22 beats any steinberg or behringer by far.



As Marcel wrote, high quality D/A converters and the other attributes of a good interface do make a huge, very audible difference. If you can't hear it, either you have bad speakers or some other problem with your monitoring setup.


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## whiskers (Dec 11, 2018)

JohnG said:


> It's the drivers -- the software -- that can make a big difference. Most of the "good" interfaces are not bad, but some of the very inexpensive solutions are awful.
> 
> I use RME interfaces because they are incredibly solid. Writing music is hard enough without worrying about that kind of nonsense, so I tend to over-spend to have plenty of computer / hardware capacity so I don't run out in the middle of a piece.
> 
> ...


copy that, thanks for the thoughts. I don't have the nicest speakers right now, so doesn't make sense to go crazy with the interface, and I could just upgrade down the line if/when I get more serious about this kind of thing.

So far I'm considering the Steinberg, Scarlett, Behringer, and NI Komplete Audio 6. I've not heard good things with Scarlett and Windows, and I'd want something with good ASIO drivers (right?).

So trying to differentiate between these manufacturers and models. Gut is leaning to Steingber or the NI, but not sure why yet.


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## JohnG (Dec 11, 2018)

I think it depends on what you want @whiskers so naturally you can elect to do something, or nothing. 

Certainly, like everyone, you face the "weakest link in the chain" issue if you're just starting out, so your speakers, your amp, your D/A converter -- each one can be that weak link. Or maybe all of them, if you're the way I was at the outset. 

I wince somewhat to think of my early setups, but I did professional work (i.e. paid-that-went-on-TV) with it. One doesn't have to have everything perfect to make progress.

That said, it's much cheaper to buy a "pretty good" setup nowadays. We used to have to spend thousands on a mixing board, just for starters.


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## bill5 (Dec 11, 2018)

MarcelM said:


> there is a huge difference, or someone has bad ears. i have had them all and an audient id22 beats any steinberg or behringer by far.


Hardly, but believe whatever you wish. I think a blind test would easily prove otherwise. PS my ears are fine.


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## MarcelM (Dec 11, 2018)

bill5 said:


> Hardly, but believe whatever you wish. I think a blind test would easily prove otherwise. PS my ears are fine.



yeah, most of the guys here have only expensive hardware because it looks fancy. but believe whatever you wish. sometimes you get what you pay for.


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## whiskers (Dec 11, 2018)

MarcelM said:


> yeah, most of the guys here have only expensive hardware because it looks fancy. but believe whatever you wish. sometimes you get what you pay for.


while that's probably the case, seems like diminishing returns at a point. Or maybe my ears are untrained. Or I have entry level monitors. Or all of the above


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## bill5 (Dec 11, 2018)

MarcelM said:


> yeah, most of the guys here have only expensive hardware because it looks fancy.


Not what I said at all. Pls don't twist my words just because you're getting in a snit. 



> sometimes you get what you pay for.


True - but key word: "sometimes." But sometimes you don't, esp when it comes to audio gear. Companies who charge more for comparable gear like Audient love guys like you with that "get what you pay for" mantra though; they can jack their prices up and laugh all the way to the bank.


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## bill5 (Dec 11, 2018)

whiskers said:


> while that's probably the case, seems like diminishing returns at a point. Or maybe my ears are untrained. Or I have entry level monitors. Or all of the above


Or maybe you simply know what you're talking about more than you give yourself credit for. Do yourself a favor, don't fall into the "it must be better, because it's more expensive" silliness.


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## whiskers (Dec 11, 2018)

looks like the NI got meh reviews, leaning towards Steinberg for drivers. Plus I use cubase, so I trust the brand


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## whiskers (Dec 11, 2018)

bill5 said:


> Or maybe you simply know what you're talking about more than you give yourself credit for. Do yourself a favor, don't fall into the "it must be better, because it's more expensive" silliness.


You do definitely get what you pay for to an extent, but again, is something that's _incrementally_ better worth a $500 premium? Eeeh, i don't think either of us are at that point yet.

But @MarcelM does make a point. There's a reason why people recommend Babyface Pro and Apollo. Shoot, even Christian Henson recommends the Apollo.


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## bill5 (Dec 11, 2018)

whiskers said:


> You do definitely get what you pay for to an extent,


Again: sometimes. Not always, not even to an extent. Less expensive gear equals or out-performs more expensive gear on a regular basis, or at the very least comes close enough that the price gap is hardly worth it. 



> But @MarcelM does make a point. There's a reason why people recommend Babyface Pro and Apollo. Shoot, even Christian Henson recommends the Apollo.


There are many possible reasons. One reason might simply be those units are better...but unless you have a huge budget, it's not simply a question of better, but how much better? A lot? A tiny bit? Is it worth the cost?

Another reason might be they know such units are popular and trendy and they're just jumping on the bandwagon to build (or at least not lose) credibility.

Yet another might be they are buying into the "get what you pay for" mantra despite a lack of any evidence for the given units actually sounding better.

But hey it's your money and I think we would all agree a subject not exactly devoid of subjectivity...if you are for whatever reason convinced a comparable spec-ed unit which costs a lot more is better than the less expensive one, go for it. Having that "warm fuzzy" has its value as well.


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## jbuhler (Dec 11, 2018)

whiskers said:


> looks like the NI got meh reviews, leaning towards Steinberg for drivers. Plus I use cubase, so I trust the brand


Personally, I think you are likely to hear more of a difference between getting an audio interface and not having one than a fancy one and most standard level ones. (But you might not notice much difference from your current set up depending on a lot of things.) What you do know you will gain is the ability to run both speakers and headphones without having to plug in and plug out, and if you still plan to plug your headphones in and out I would be certain that the headphone jack will be easily accessible in your set up. Many audio interfaces have you plug the headphones into the back, which would be difficult to access in my set up. Also if you buy a cheaper audio interface to start you also can replace it when you find that you are dissatisfied.


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## JohnG (Dec 11, 2018)

bill5 said:


> Yet another might be they are buying into the "get what you pay for" mantra despite a lack of any evidence for the given units actually sounding better.



Do you really have any experience with this? Because you don't actually sound like you do from what you are writing. I see a lot of advice but none that shows experience.


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## storyteller (Dec 11, 2018)

@whiskers - Not to limit the list of possibilities, but know that you will be in very, very good hands with an Apogee, Universal Audio, or RME device. My preference has always been Apogee, but that could be because (at one time) they were orders of magnitude better than anyone else when digital audio was hitting its stride and I got used to their character. Today, competition is closer. The top devices almost always use the same core chipsets with a few modifications. The “top list” is more inclusive than the three listed above, but they tend to be the most popular “standard” in the industry.

If those are out of your price range, consider most everything below that price point a gray area of quality. Some are better than others, but none quite as good as those listed above. You will still be well served with something external though. You can certainly spend more for marginal improvements than any of these listed if you desired as well. So I don’t want to limit you upwardly either.


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## MarcelM (Dec 12, 2018)

bill5 said:


> Again: sometimes. Not always, not even to an extent. Less expensive gear equals or out-performs more expensive gear on a regular basis, or at the very least comes close enough that the price gap is hardly worth it.
> 
> 
> There are many possible reasons. One reason might simply be those units are better...but unless you have a huge budget, it's not simply a question of better, but how much better? A lot? A tiny bit? Is it worth the cost?
> ...



you shoud visit a site like gearslutz probably and read about reviews and about the tech actually.
between audio interfaces there are huge differences, and in that world you get what you pay for. on the other hand, an usb cable for like 1k wont make a difference compared to a 5$ one.

iam sorry to say, but you dont sound very experienced when it comes to audio hardware.


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## bill5 (Dec 13, 2018)

JohnG said:


> Do you really have any experience with this? Because you don't actually sound like you do from what you are writing. I see a lot of advice but none that shows experience.


Yes. Do you? Because you don't actually sound like you do from what you are writing.


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## bill5 (Dec 13, 2018)

MarcelM said:


> you shoud visit a site like gearslutz probably and read about reviews and about the tech actually.
> between audio interfaces there are huge differences, and in that world you get what you pay for. on the other hand, an usb cable for like 1k wont make a difference compared to a 5$ one.
> 
> iam sorry to say, but you dont sound very experienced when it comes to audio hardware.


I am sorry to say that I can say the same about you. Again, the diff's between audio interfaces (and most gear in this day and age) are generally quite exaggerated by people who buy into the "you get what you pay for" foolishness. I could make a mint doing blind test bets off of such people (and in fact have won such bets in the past with people with similar attitudes...that is the few who had the courage to put their money where their mouths were).


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## Ironwood Studio (Dec 13, 2018)

whiskers said:


> thinking a bit more about this. If I don't need really any inputs, just two outputs, I think that'd narrow down the list quite a bit. Still not sure on what exactly I'd want/need though. Really have all sorts of options, I just don't know how different one brand is going to be from another (aside from build quality)


Any two channel one with phantom power. And never buy from behringer, every thing thy make is cheep. Usually Focusrite or PreSonus you cannot go wrong, they both have grate histories.


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## JohnG (Dec 14, 2018)

bill5 said:


> Yes. Do you? Because you don't actually sound like you do from what you are writing.



Such a clever, witty retort.

You are posting anonymously, we've never heard a note of your music, you are dismissive of others' experience or opinions, and belittle anyone who disagrees with you.

What's not to love?


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## whiskers (Dec 14, 2018)

FWIW I take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt


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## Ironwood Studio (Dec 14, 2018)

JohnG said:


> Such a clever, witty retort.
> 
> You are posting anonymously, we've never heard a note of your music, you are dismissive of others' experience or opinions, and belittle anyone who disagrees with you.
> 
> What's not to love?


What happened here I’m confused?


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## whiskers (Dec 14, 2018)

Ironwood Studio said:


> What happened here I’m confused?


forum drama? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Ironwood Studio (Dec 14, 2018)

whiskers said:


> forum drama? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I never understand human emotions and physiology


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## dzilizzi (Dec 14, 2018)

As far as I know, the main reason to get something like a Babyface is lower latency. The sound may also be better, but it is arguable. And latency is really noticeable when you are recording audio, but maybe not as much with vsti’s. 

And I think Apollo comes with internal effects that can take some of the pressure off the CPU. There is lots of discussion over at Gearslutz on this. 

And? You probably don’t wat to go too cheap because it is electronics, but the Steinberg should be fine.


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## whiskers (Dec 15, 2018)

Still leaning towards the Steinberg UR22MKII or the NI Komplete Audio, but IDK if it really matters ath this price point. A lot of places seem to recommend the Scarlett.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 15, 2018)

I like my Scarlett. But every so often when I add something new, it gets upset and I get a BSD. At some point I need to get my IT person (aka Google) tell me how to check codes and maybe figure out a way to make so the hardware address stays static? I don’t really know what I’m talking about. That may not be the problem. It’s something I used to deal with when my computer was crap. But I can’t remember how I fixed it other than buying better computers.

Also? With the Scarlett you get free plugins. Like Addictive Keys.


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## jbuhler (Dec 15, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Still leaning towards the Steinberg UR22MKII or the NI Komplete Audio, but IDK if it really matters ath this price point. A lot of places seem to recommend the Scarlett.


Honestly, for the use you are describing at this point, I'd look at whether the placement of the volume knobs and the plug receptacles for the headphones are convenient for your set up. Since you aren't doing complex routing or using it for recording or processing audio effects, the main thing you want is that the unit not be irritating to do basic functions like plugging in and changing the volume.


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## whiskers (Dec 15, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Honestly, for the use you are describing at this point, I'd look at whether the placement of the volume knobs and the plug receptacles for the headphones are convenient for your set up. Since you aren't doing complex routing or using it for recording or processing audio effects, the main thing you want is that the unit not be irritating to do basic functions like plugging in and changing the volume.


honestly, that's kinda why I liked the KA6 over the Steinberg.

Then there's the Audient ID14 too. Hmm.


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## jbuhler (Dec 15, 2018)

whiskers said:


> honestly, that's kinda why I liked the KA6 over the Steinberg.
> 
> Then there's the Audient ID14 too. Hmm.


Also you have to stare at the thing every day until it breaks or you decide to change it, so style points can certainly come into play.


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## MartinH. (Dec 15, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Also you have to stare at the thing every day until it breaks or you decide to change it, so style points can certainly come into play.



Good point. I don't like red, would have much preferred the Focusrite to be black. Maybe I should wrap it in black foil, now that I think of it... 
Anyway I'd never buy the NI KA6 again, had ton's of problem with it. It occasionally made the audio sound like an 80s robot voice. Had to unplug it every time to fix that, was annoying as hell.


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## whiskers (Dec 15, 2018)

MartinH. said:


> Good point. I don't like red, would have much preferred the Focusrite to be black. Maybe I should wrap it in black foil, now that I think of it...
> Anyway I'd never buy the NI KA6 again, had ton's of problem with it. It occasionally made the audio sound like an 80s robot voice. Had to unplug it every time to fix that, was annoying as hell.


Good to know. Steinberg may be the way to go. hmm.


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## whiskers (Dec 15, 2018)

I'm wondering if it's even well worth it at this point. If i had inputs, sure it would be, but IDK.


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## CT (Dec 15, 2018)

whiskers said:


> I'm wondering if it's even well worth it at this point. If i had inputs, sure it would be, but IDK.



I just talked myself down from finally getting my first interface for like the hundredth time. 

I can't see doing this upgrade piece by piece, with cheaper pieces, instead of waiting until I can tackle the interface, monitors, and a bit of room treatment all at once, and at good quality. 

I've survived this long with plain old speakers and headphones right into the iMac. I can do it a little longer.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 15, 2018)

miket said:


> I just talked myself down from finally getting my first interface for like the hundredth time.
> 
> I can't see doing this upgrade piece by piece, with cheaper pieces, instead of waiting until I can tackle the interface, monitors, and a bit of room treatment all at once, and at good quality.
> 
> I've survived this long with plain old speakers and headphones right into the iMac. I can do it a little longer.


You have a Mac. Windows sound drivers are just not as good as Apple core audio. This really is the main reason to get a audio interface with a windows machine.


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## whiskers (Dec 16, 2018)

50/50 on waiting vs getting one.

Still debating on NI KA6, Audient ID14, or the Steinberg UR22 MKII.

not sure it's a super need right now, but would be nice. Also could take advantage of Christmas sales. Hmm...


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## Eckoes (Dec 16, 2018)

whiskers said:


> 50/50 on waiting vs getting one.
> 
> Still debating on NI KA6, Audient ID14, or the Steinberg UR22 MKII.
> 
> not sure it's a super need right now, but would be nice. Also could take advantage of Christmas sales. Hmm...




Despite the “meh” reviews of the NI KA6, I have been using one for 2 or 3 years now and haven’t had any problems. Low enough latency for me, and it sounds great to my ears.

But of course this is completely anecdotal. You could probably do just as well for less.


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## whiskers (Dec 16, 2018)

Eckoes said:


> Despite the “meh” reviews of the NI KA6, I have been using one for 2 or 3 years now and haven’t had any problems. Low enough latency for me, and it sounds great to my ears.
> 
> But of course this is completely anecdotal. You could probably do just as well for less.


I'm not using any ins, just 2 outs- monitors and headphones. I don't know if they're any benefit with sticking with NI, but I do have komplete ultimate & komplete kontrol.

One if the big reasons I was looking at KA6 was the MIDI USB in, but not sure how important that is.

Latency, drivers, and sound quality are probably the most important factors


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## tokatila (Dec 16, 2018)

whiskers said:


> 50/50 on waiting vs getting one.
> 
> Still debating on NI KA6, Audient ID14, or the Steinberg UR22 MKII.
> 
> not sure it's a super need right now, but would be nice. Also could take advantage of Christmas sales. Hmm...



I have have/had both UR44 and Scarlett 2i4. UR44 has been more reliable, has two set of headphones places and isn't red. At least with Cubase.

I use my Scarlett&Surface Pro combo with my Yamaha N1 when I want to play Bach with (Pianoteq's) clavichord.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 16, 2018)

Truthfully, when I first started, to get ProTools, you had to buy an MBox. The ProTools LE was free. And it was necessary to have an AD converter because the built-in sound cards just didn't do it. I also record vocals and need the pre-amp with the phantom power. But when I would use just Reason, I rarely bothered using the MBox, it wasn't necessary for midi. So if you have a decent soundcard, you can probably get away without it for a while if you are not recording audio.


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## whiskers (Dec 16, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Truthfully, when I first started, to get ProTools, you had to buy an MBox. The ProTools LE was free. And it was necessary to have an AD converter because the built-in sound cards just didn't do it. I also record vocals and need the pre-amp with the phantom power. But when I would use just Reason, I rarely bothered using the MBox, it wasn't necessary for midi. So if you have a decent soundcard, you can probably get away without it for a while if you are not recording audio.


I have no discrete soundcard, just the onboard mobo one. Its good for onboards, but not amazing


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## dzilizzi (Dec 16, 2018)

whiskers said:


> I have no discrete soundcard, just the onboard mobo one. Its good for onboards, but not amazing


I guess I should ask if it is a desktop or a laptop. Usually the desktop ones are fine, but the laptop ones are only okay. Is it working for you now is really the question.


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## whiskers (Dec 16, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> I guess I should ask if it is a desktop or a laptop. Usually the desktop ones are fine, but the laptop ones are only okay. Is it working for you now is really the question.


Desktop, decent world quality boats too.

TBH, main reason I was looking is:

1. Eliminate buzz/hum/hiss of JBL LSR305 on idle (may or may not fix this issue)

2. Control headphones/monitors volume separately


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## jbuhler (Dec 16, 2018)

whiskers said:


> One if the big reasons I was looking at KA6 was the MIDI USB in, but not sure how important that is.


Do you have any old midi instruments lying about? If not, then not important at all that the audio interface handle midi in and out. If you have an old synth you want to bring into your system, then it will be useful.


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## novaburst (Dec 16, 2018)

Not sure about your price tag, sets you back £2500 used to £ 5000 new, interface is integrated


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## Wally Garten (Dec 16, 2018)

To add my late opinion, and without wanting to start the fight up again -- the ADC's on pretty much any modern piece of gear are going to be very useable. Nothing's going to sound like a wet fart. (Within reason; don't buy https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-U-Control-UCA202-Ultra-Low-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI/ref=sr_1_10?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1544986529&sr=1-10&keywords=behringer+audio+interface (this).) 

One of those TV home crafts guys -- Norm Abrams, maybe? -- once said that the thing you want to do when you start out is to buy pretty cheap tools, and if/when you use it enough that it needs replacing, you'll know enough to make a good judgment about what to buy next. I think the same thing applies to audio gear -- buy something cheap that gets reasonably good reviews (which is going to be most of them), and decide for yourself when you need something fancier. (But even then, you can also get gains through other means -- e.g., by using a cheap preamp before the interface when recording from microphones, rather than relying on the preamps in the box.)

Caveat: As @JohnG says, it all depends what you want to do. Punk rock or underground house music has different requirements than, say, recording Joshua Bell. I'm much closer to the former camp in my goals, aesthetic, and working processes -- any interest in virtual orchestral sounds notwithstanding. If you're, e.g., planning to make a living as a media composer, a bigger initial investment might be warranted.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 16, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Desktop, decent world quality boats too.
> 
> TBH, main reason I was looking is:
> 
> ...


The buzz/hum may be related to what is around the speakers. One of mine makes a lot of noises, but it is near to the wifi router. Unfortunately, without redoing the whole room, I'm kind of stuck with it. The other one doesn't make any noise other than what it should make. 

Being able to turn off the speakers and just use headphones is a good reason to get an audio interface. I do that a lot at night.


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## whiskers (Dec 16, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Do you have any old midi instruments lying about? If not, then not important at all that the audio interface handle midi in and out. If you have an old synth you want to bring into your system, then it will be useful.


Nope, only one controller and it's new & usb


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## jbuhler (Dec 16, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> The buzz/hum may be related to what is around the speakers. One of mine makes a lot of noises, but it is near to the wifi router. Unfortunately, without redoing the whole room, I'm kind of stuck with it. The other one doesn't make any noise other than what it should make.


I had a problem of this sort when on of my speakers was too close to the computer. I couldn't get any shielding to work so I had to move the speaker to a slightly less ideal position.


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## whiskers (Dec 16, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> The buzz/hum may be related to what is around the speakers. One of mine makes a lot of noises, but it is near to the wifi router. Unfortunately, without redoing the whole room, I'm kind of stuck with it. The other one doesn't make any noise other than what it should make.
> 
> Being able to turn off the speakers and just use headphones is a good reason to get an audio interface. I do that a lot at night.


I have a hunch it's more due to the built-in amplifiers on the speakers, but there's varying levels of noticeability during different applications. as far as the turning one off in the other on I feel like I could do that manually, but it's still be convenient with an interface


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## whiskers (Dec 16, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I had a problem of this sort when on of my speakers was too close to the computer. I couldn't get any shielding to work so I had to move the speaker to a slightly less ideal position.


They are close to the PC, so you all may be on to something


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## whiskers (Dec 21, 2018)

Any other/final thoughts on Audient ID14, Steinberg UR22 MKII, and the Komplete Audio 6?

Thinking about picking one up today before a sale ends


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## Loïc D (Dec 22, 2018)

Never buy anything below Goliath 32.

Lol, what matters is the number of in/out mostly, and the form factor (desktop / rack-type).

All modern interfaces have more than decent converters and drivers. The latency will just vary slightly and the headroom will be more than enough for VI work.
Besides you were able to write very good music without interface, right?

I have a good old MOTU 828mk2 firewire that I bought 15 years ago I guess (used it on mac & pc easily).

And a Scarlett 2i2 mk1 that’s lightweight and does the job on the road (Focusrite plugin collective is to consider : you get nice free/discounted 3rd party plugins every month).

And a Yamaha THR10 which is a small amp with USB interface. Love that gear too to record guitars when I’m too lazy mic’ing an amp.

I’m thinking later of switching to something with extended features (like UAD) but no rush at all.

Save your money on good headphone or monitor.


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## whiskers (Dec 26, 2018)

Still leaning towards KA6 or Steinberg UR22 MKII. At this price point may not be much difference. May just pick one tonight. If anyone thinks one is lower latency or is more suited to soundtrack style music, would be curious to hear your thoughts.

Probably a hand of inches with these choices though.


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## jbuhler (Dec 26, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Still leaning towards KA6 or Steinberg UR22 MKII. At this price point may not be much difference. May just pick one tonight. If anyone thinks one is lower latency or is more suited to soundtrack style music, would be curious to hear your thoughts.
> 
> Probably a hand of inches with these choices though.


At this point choose the one that you think you'd prefer to look at every day.


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## whiskers (Dec 26, 2018)

Definitely KA6. I just don't know if Steinberg drivers are any better. Also I've heard a few stories of audio distortion with the Komplete audio those seem to be few and far between. From what I'm looking at there's about a $20 difference either way with the Komplete audio being slightly more expensive. So you're probably right, it probably ultimately doesn't matter


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## jbuhler (Dec 26, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Definitely KA6. I just don't know if Steinberg drivers are any better. Also I've heard a few stories of audio distortion with the Komplete audio those seem to be few and far between. From what I'm looking at there's about a $20 difference either way with the Komplete audio being slightly more expensive. So you're probably right, it probably ultimately doesn't matter


The differences will be subtle. I just swapped out my audio interfaces to go back to the Scarlett 2i4 because I like the controls better. But the sound of the system is now slightly different, whether better or worse I don't know. It sounds as though I applied a slightly different EQ to the sound. I didn't notice the difference when I changed to the other one a couple of years ago (I changed because at the time I needed a simple way to route iPad audio into my DAW but I also didn't have the subwoofer at the time), so I don't know if the two interfaces affect the subwoofer in different ways or if my ears have just developed better sensitivity and more familiarity with the sound of my gear. Neither of my audio interfaces is expensive, though I have an expensive one in my acoustically not very satisfying office. Some day I'll bring that home and see if it makes any real difference.


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## whiskers (Dec 27, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> The differences will be subtle. I just swapped out my audio interfaces to go back to the Scarlett 2i4 because I like the controls better. But the sound of the system is now slightly different, whether better or worse I don't know. It sounds as though I applied a slightly different EQ to the sound. I didn't notice the difference when I changed to the other one a couple of years ago (I changed because at the time I needed a simple way to route iPad audio into my DAW but I also didn't have the subwoofer at the time), so I don't know if the two interfaces affect the subwoofer in different ways or if my ears have just developed better sensitivity and more familiarity with the sound of my gear. Neither of my audio interfaces is expensive, though I have an expensive one in my acoustically not very satisfying office. Some day I'll bring that home and see if it makes any real difference.


well I'm gonna go with the Steinberg. It's 50$ cheaper, I've heard good things about their drivers and support, and better overall reviews than the KA6. the KA6 might be better if I needed pres/inputs, but I really don't so... I *think* the latency is comparable between the two. I really do like that big knob on the KA6 though.

Also the Steinberg supports higher sample rate, though I have my doubts that it's even noticeable.


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## jbuhler (Dec 27, 2018)

whiskers said:


> well I'm gonna go with the Steinberg. It's 50$ cheaper, I've heard good things about their drivers and support, and better overall reviews than the KA6. the KA6 might be better if I needed pres/inputs, but I really don't so... I *think* the latency is comparable between the two. I really do like that big knob on the KA6 though.
> 
> Also the Steinberg supports higher sample rate, though I have my doubts that it's even noticeable.


One of mine supports up to 96K, I think, the other up to 192k, but I never use anything other than 44.1 and 48 (mostly 48), so for me it's really moot.


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## whiskers (Dec 27, 2018)

Thanks for your help all, went with the Steinberg UR22MKII. 

The KA6 looked nice, and some had said sound quality was better, but reviews were overall very mixed. I like the big volume knob, but whatever. Also I had heard reports that KA might have been slightly lower latency, but IDK.

Ultimately, I chose the Steinberg because of less overall reported issues (people said it was rock solid) and stable drivers. I couldn't justify spending almost 75$ more on the KA6. Seemed pretty neck and neck. Were they the same price, may have gotten the KA6, but eh.

The only think that gave me pause was apparently the UR22MKII doesn't do direct monitoring in stereo, but if I understand correctly, I don't think I'd be doing any real time monitoring (that's with inputs, right?)

Hopefully it'll be a good addition.


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## SchnookyPants (Dec 27, 2018)

Finally!


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## dzilizzi (Dec 27, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Thanks for your help all, went with the Steinberg UR22MKII.
> 
> The KA6 looked nice, and some had said sound quality was better, but reviews were overall very mixed. I like the big volume knob, but whatever. Also I had heard reports that KA might have been slightly lower latency, but IDK.
> 
> ...


Let me know how you like it. I’m thinking if I don’t spend money on music stuff for a few months, I’ll reward myself with an RME Babyface.


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## whiskers (Dec 27, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Let me know how you like it. I’m thinking if I don’t spend money on music stuff for a few months, I’ll reward myself with an RME Babyface.


This is turning into quite the expensive hobby


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## dzilizzi (Dec 27, 2018)

whiskers said:


> This is turning into quite the expensive hobby


Oh yes. I thought shoes were bad, but this beats it for me. Though really, when I first started I spent a lot. But I had more hardware than software. Then for years it was only about upgrading the computer every couple years because PCs just couldn’t keep up. And upgrading ProTools as needed for the OS. This last year and a half, I’ve been going a little crazy with software because the sales have been so good and I’ve had the money. 

Though my husband does woodworking and he spends more than I do. The furniture has been pretty though.


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## whiskers (Dec 28, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Oh yes. I thought shoes were bad, but this beats it for me. Though really, when I first started I spent a lot. But I had more hardware than software. Then for years it was only about upgrading the computer every couple years because PCs just couldn’t keep up. And upgrading ProTools as needed for the OS. This last year and a half, I’ve been going a little crazy with software because the sales have been so good and I’ve had the money.
> 
> Though my husband does woodworking and he spends more than I do. The furniture has been pretty though.


 Yep.

Though, I think there's something to be said for investing in quality tools.

Has he made you an awesome composing desk yet?


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## dzilizzi (Dec 28, 2018)

No, not yet. I have one that I cobbled together before he really started. But I wouldn't mind one with racks on it. And I don't really care if it is all dovetailed and mitered. But he gets so picky. It is easier not to ask yet. At least not until it won't take him 6 months to a year to do it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 3, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Though my husband does woodworking and he spends more than I do.



Tell him about Craigslist.

There are people selling great tools they don't use for very little all the time. My table saw, bandsaw, drill press, sliding compound miter saw, scrollsaw, and jointer (a really cool steampunk-looking, solid cast iron tool from the '40s) - all at least "contractor" grade - were far less than a pair of good speakers.

Actually, less than a pair of mediocre ones.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 3, 2019)

By the way, my experience with several interfaces - admittedly a few years ago, but I had in for a few weeks and spent a lot of time listening to them really hard - is that the sound quality absolutely does correspond to the price range. That applies to input and output.

Whether a $2000 sounds 10X a $200 is a separate issue. But I tend to prefer investing in equipment that's going to last a long time.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 3, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Tell him about Craigslist.
> 
> There are people selling great tools they don't use for very little all the time. My table saw, bandsaw, drill press, sliding compound miter saw, scrollsaw, and jointer (a really cool steampunk-looking, solid cast iron tool from the '40s) - all at least "contractor" grade - were far less than a pair of good speakers.
> 
> Actually, less than a pair of mediocre ones.


It's the wood. I think he spent about $500 for oak for his latest project. The saw he got for about half price from a guy who was moving across the country.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 3, 2019)

Since this is so on-topic...



dzilizzi said:


> It's the wood. I think he spent about $500 for oak for his latest project. The saw he got for about half price from a guy who was moving across the country.



Yeah, wood is expensive, especially solid hardwood.

But Craigslist can also be good for wood. I found a 3" thick x 5' round solid maple slab for $100 that I made into a table. It's semi-reclaimed from a retail fixture, so I had to do a lot of sanding and some repair, but it would easily have cost $1500 for that wood alone. (The legs are high-quality douglas fir, i.e. not the stuff you get at Home Depot for construction.)


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## dzilizzi (Jan 4, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Since this is so on-topic...
> 
> Yeah, wood is expensive, especially solid hardwood.
> 
> But Craigslist can also be good for wood. I found a 3" thick x 5' round solid maple slab for $100 that I made into a table. It's semi-reclaimed from a retail fixture, so I had to do a lot of sanding and some repair, but it would easily have cost $1500 for that wood alone. (The legs are high-quality douglas fir, i.e. not the stuff you get at Home Depot for construction.)


Nice! I'll let him know. Thanks!


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## whiskers (Feb 7, 2019)

Looks like NI has a new product line in the interface market:
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/audio-interfaces/komplete-audio-1-audio-2/


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