# Guide for building a VE Pro slave



## composerguy78 (Nov 18, 2017)

Hi all,
I'm looking to build a VE Pro slave. I have been out of the loop for a few years in this department and I am wondering if there is a thread/sticky or guide somewhere on what one should factors to consider when building a VE Pro slave machine. Eg. Should I be building as system with as much RAM as possible, should I be using SSDs etc. 

I am looking through this section of the forum, I'm just wondering if there is an up to date guide or blog out there also?
Thanks
Felix


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## Maestro1972 (Nov 18, 2017)

Hi, composerguy78. I don't know about threads or stickies. But what I do know that when you build a slave you want as much RAM as possible. SSDs are a must as well. The slave will be dedicated to house and process your samples freeing up resources on your master so that you can use those resources for your DAW and any plugin processing. I would guess that most slaves are 64 to 128 gigs of RAM, i7 6 core and above CPU, and as many TB of SSD's as you want/need to hold your libraries. I would recommend using a motherboard that has m.2 capabilities for your operating system.


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## composerguy78 (Nov 18, 2017)

Thank you Maestro1972! Good to know that SSD's are a must. This machine is going to be for a slave only - does it still require a m.2 drive for the system drive? 

I have been looking at pcpartpicker.com - I'm finding it hard to find mobo's which can accommodate more than 128 GB RAM. Are there any other places I should be looking to assemble are components list?


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## synthnut1 (Nov 19, 2017)

With all the information on this forum,and all the knowledgeable people that are here, I'm surprised that no one has put together a complete guide or book on building a useful computer for what we do !! A guide complete with BIOS settings.....I for one would pay to have something like this .... Step by step instructions...."Building a computer for music production "


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## synthnut1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Hi Felix,
Have you thought about building a couple of computers and spreading things out a bit ?......Jim


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## windyweekend (Nov 19, 2017)

I actually use a bunch of archaic old PCs as slaves without SSDs and they all run great. The top factors are 1) RAM plus 2) a Gigabit switch with 3) minimum Cat6 cables (anything less will slow down the data transfer). Anything else is a bonus.


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## garyhiebner (Nov 20, 2017)

windyweekend said:


> I actually use a bunch of archaic old PCs as slaves without SSDs and they all run great. The top factors are 1) RAM plus 2) a Gigabit switch with 3) minimum Cat6 cables (anything less will slow down the data transfer). Anything else is a bonus.


What are the specs on there archaic PCs you use and how many instruments can they handle. I know I tried to run my Macbook Pro Dual Core 2.5Ghz 2012 with 16GB RAM & SSD as a slave. And could only get about 25-30 instruments on it to handle. But suppose it depends on the libraries you're trying to run on them and how intensive they are


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## composerguy78 (Nov 20, 2017)

Thank you all for these tips. I think spreading things out over multiple machines may well be the way to go. 

Windyweekend (a fellow windsurfer perhaps?!) I'd be interested to know what libraries you are running on the old machines. I also have old machines I could set up. I have a 2008 Mac Pro which I could upgrade the RAM to 32 GB, not sure if that is worth it however.


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## windyweekend (Nov 20, 2017)

composerguy78 said:


> Thank you all for these tips. I think spreading things out over multiple machines may well be the way to go.
> 
> Windyweekend (a fellow windsurfer perhaps?!) I'd be interested to know what libraries you are running on the old machines. I also have old machines I could set up. I have a 2008 Mac Pro which I could upgrade the RAM to 32 GB, not sure if that is worth it however.



I have two slaves + one master, all running 16GB each. One Slave with an i3, the other with an i5 processor. The i5 runs the whole Spitfire Orchestra (SSS, SSB, SSW, Masse), Saconni Quartet, and the N7 Keys. The i3 runs HZ01,02,03, Albion ONE, Phobos and a few other bits and pieces. The master has Komplete 10 on it, another version of SSB, a bunch of SA labs, various NI libs, plus my own homegrown sample libraries. They all seem to balance pretty nicely.

The garage houses a Starboard Carve 140,111 and a Naish 8'11". Naish sails ranging from a 7.4 down to a 4.2 for the local hurricanes. All gathering dust while I procrastinate on my movies.

(Very off topic, but an also equally fun, interesting, and enjoyable pursuit in life - sorry about that!)


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 21, 2017)

Honestly, just build an i7 Quad Core with 64GB Ram and SSD's. I highly doubt you'll exceed the 64GB unless you plan on loading over 1000 tracks, huge libraries, etc. My typical templates sit at around 24GB Ram, with about 150 tracks loaded...including Hollywood Strings/Brass Gold. The bigger templates push around 30GB, but I rarely use those. If you plan on loading up every articulation from Hollywood Strings Diamond and the entire Berlin Orchestra, 128GB might be in order but it's not necessary.


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## JohnG (Nov 21, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Honestly, just build an i7 Quad Core with 64GB Ram and SSD's. I highly doubt you'll exceed the 64GB unless you plan on loading over 1000 tracks, huge libraries, etc. My typical templates sit at around 24GB Ram, with about 150 tracks loaded...including Hollywood Strings/Brass Gold. The bigger templates push around 30GB, but I rarely use those. If you plan on loading up every articulation from Hollywood Strings Diamond and the entire Berlin Orchestra, 128GB might be in order but it's not necessary.



I hear you Wolfie, but I confess that my strings PC slave computer alone has 64GB and it's mostly full, even without CSS. Kind of spoiled, though, as I keep a lot loaded: HS Diamond, Spitfire Symphonic and Chamber strings, Tundra, LASS stuff, a bunch of FX from Spitfire, 8dio and elsewhere -- a really huge range of sounds.

So, I think it's fair to say @Wolfie2112 is _generally_ correct; provided that you're not a piggy like me, you can do a good-sized template with 64GB.

But if you are in fact a piggy, two or even three 64GB PCs is nice.


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## composerguy78 (Nov 22, 2017)

Thanks very much everyone! That is really good to know WindyWeekend that your archaic pc's are still proving useful and hosting big libraries.

I have a 2009 Mac Pro which has an SSD for it's system drive with 200GB of space on it and 16 GB of RAM. I'm just wondering if it's worth upgrading the RAM to 32 GB? Would an Intel Xeon Quad-core 2.66 be able to playback samples when it's loaded up to 32 GB of RAM? or is it a waste of money? Obviously I will try with the current RAM and see how much it can play back first. 

P.s. - WindyWeekend - I have a 75 liter starboard and a 110 liter taboo (I think) and bunch of sails but I rarely get to go out - kids may be part of the reason! Oh and setting up sample libraries might also be part of the reason too!


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## windyweekend (Nov 22, 2017)

composerguy78 said:


> I have a 75 liter starboard and a 110 liter taboo (I think) and bunch of sails but I rarely get to go out - kids may be part of the reason! Oh and setting up sample libraries might also be part of the reason too!



:O)


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## composerguy78 (Jan 7, 2018)

Hi there,
What is the latency like on your archaic PCs? The reason I ask is that I am setting up a template on my on 2009 Mac Pro and the latency is annoying. I have to set it at 4 buffers and it can be hard to play. 

With a new machine with an i7 processor, 64 GB RAM and SSDs, how much latency should I expect to have to deal with? 

To put this question another way -Do you find that there is noticeable latency when playing instruments hosted on your slaves vs ones hosted within your DAW? 

Thanks,
Felix




windyweekend said:


> I have two slaves + one master, all running 16GB each. One Slave with an i3, the other with an i5 processor. The i5 runs the whole Spitfire Orchestra (SSS, SSB, SSW, Masse), Saconni Quartet, and the N7 Keys. The i3 runs HZ01,02,03, Albion ONE, Phobos and a few other bits and pieces. The master has Komplete 10 on it, another version of SSB, a bunch of SA labs, various NI libs, plus my own homegrown sample libraries. They all seem to balance pretty nicely.
> 
> The garage houses a Starboard Carve 140,111 and a Naish 8'11". Naish sails ranging from a 7.4 down to a 4.2 for the local hurricanes. All gathering dust while I procrastinate on my movies.
> 
> (Very off topic, but an also equally fun, interesting, and enjoyable pursuit in life - sorry about that!)


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## windyweekend (Jan 7, 2018)

composerguy78 said:


> Hi there,
> What is the latency like on your archaic PCs? The reason I ask is that I am setting up a template on my on 2009 Mac Pro and the latency is annoying. I have to set it at 4 buffers and it can be hard to play.
> 
> With a new machine with an i7 processor, 64 GB RAM and SSDs, how much latency should I expect to have to deal with?
> ...


I notice zero difference between the latency on my daw machine vs my slaves. I often initially patch scores on the daw machine to save booting up all the slaves which have some of the same core libraries on it, none of which I've seen any difference. I'm actually pretty impressed with the Slave/s performance. The real issue with latency will likely be your sound card. I do have issues composing fast drum patches (I normally have to do a lot of editing after the initial cut) due to latency but I put that down to the sound card on the daw machine. Could that be the root of your problem?


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## composerguy78 (Jan 8, 2018)

That is what I was really hoping to hear! Thank you.
I have an UA apollo Twin connected via Thunderbolt to my Hackintosh, I expect it is the old machine or settings in VE Pro there that are causing the issue.


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## windyweekend (Jan 8, 2018)

composerguy78 said:


> That is what I was really hoping to hear! Thank you.
> I have an UA apollo Twin connected via Thunderbolt to my Hackintosh, I expect it is the old machine or settings in VE Pro there that are causing the issue.


My performance actually goes UP when I'm using my slaves as it offloads the work to the other machines. One thing you've probably already got covered, but thought it worth mentioning in case not, is that you've got to make sure you use a Gigabit switch + Cat6 minimum cables between your machines. Anything less and you'll definitely be looking at a 10 fold decrease in performance (Cat5 can handle 100MB transfer speeds while Cat6 can handle 1GB speeds + reduced crosstalk).


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 8, 2018)

However, I think it would be very difficult to tell the difference between a cat5e and Cat6 cable.


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## composerguy78 (Jan 8, 2018)

I think I may have cat 5e but I'm going to go ahead and order some cat 7 cables!


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## composerguy78 (Jan 11, 2018)

Hi there,
I just wanted to say that this really helped! Changing my souncard settings and the latency settings on the slave has made a lot of difference and now the latency feels minimal. 

Also, I switched the Cat 5 cables to 5e and I think that helped too. - I have Cat 7 cables ordered and they are arriving soon I hope. 

So far, my old Mac Pro seems like it might be able to handle my template, I'll see how it goes.

What else would help make my machine be a better/faster slave?
I could add some more SSDs for sample streaming in those empty drive bays I have. 

Any other suggestions? 
Thanks

Felix


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 11, 2018)

Maybe it's your Hackintosh, but you should have any latency with a Thunderbolt interface.

I think buying Cat7 cables is a waste of money, I doubt you will benefit from it. However, I'd be curious to see what your speeds are.


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## composerguy78 (Jan 11, 2018)

It probably is, but it's under $10 and I'll probably need them some day! 

I think it's the combo of using an old machine (mac pro) with my current system. My Hackintosh is five years old!


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## windyweekend (Jan 11, 2018)

composerguy78 said:


> It probably is, but it's under $10 and I'll probably need them some day!
> 
> I think it's the combo of using an old machine (mac pro) with my current system. My Hackintosh is five years old!


If you're using big libraries on your slaves with a lot of GB loaded into Ram then the cat7 should make a difference. The cat 5 can only handle 100Mb transfer speeds whilst the Cat 7 can handle 10GBps. With a couple of slaves this will make a difference by definition.


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## Danc (Jan 31, 2018)

Yesterday I started my demo of VE Pro. I have two PCs, both with pretty good specs. I use reason 10 as my daw. After a really painful setup process - because the manual is terrible in explaining how to setup the networking properly... I managed to get the server running on the slave and the daw plugin to talk to each other. My problem is that running any instrument on the slave sounds terrible, with extremely distorted and stuttery sound. However... If I run the server on the master pc (so not running over Ethernet) I don't get any stutter/distortion. As I say... The slave PC is fast (> 2.5ghz) and I am using a good quality cat 5e cable.

I've tried every buffer setting in both reason and also VE Pro and it makes no difference.

Basically... This problem has to be solved or I won't buy VE Pro.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 31, 2018)

Are you running straight across without a router or switch?


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## Danc (Jan 31, 2018)

I have tried straight without router/switch.. and also tried with a router. Tried with a switch. Tried with about 20 different cat cables (of all manner of types 5, 5e, 6, crossover, non crossover etc).

And then.... I thought it must be something wrong with the slave PC I was using. So... I tried it on a completely different PC) and... exactly the same problem distortion/stuttering.

I tried the lowest audio quality settings in Reason... the same!


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## JohnG (Jan 31, 2018)

If you are still looking at the topic, this might conceivably help:


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## Danc (Feb 1, 2018)

Thanks for the heads up on this. I am currently talking to the VSL support team. I have a suspicion that it is actually Propellerhead Reason not being happy with the configuration. Last night I tried a really basic instrument plug-in, that normally takes absolutely no CPU to run - even that sounded distorted/stuttery.

One thing they pointed out to me is that VE Pro can't be used to host your DAWs insert effect plug-ins - where the audio IN comes from the DAW and then the audio OUT of that plug-in goes directly back to the DAW channel. This is a serious omission in the software, as the heaviest CPU usage is using effect plug-ins, and not the instrument plug-ins. Plus in a project, you are more likely to use many more insert plug-ins, than instrument plug-ins.


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## Danc (Feb 2, 2018)

UPDATE: I have managed to remove the distortion/stuttering. I had to configure Windows, removing background services etc. (see Focusrite website for optimising a PC https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207355205-Optimising-your-PC-for-Audio-on-Windows-10) 

However, we still have the problem that you cannot use VE Pro to host your insert effect plug-ins. Everything has to come off instrument plug-ins. For a producer of music that relies heavily on effect plug-ins, it is impractical to do it just off VE Pro hosted instruments.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 1, 2018)

Danc said:


> UPDATE: I have managed to remove the distortion/stuttering. I had to configure Windows, removing background services etc. (see Focusrite website for optimising a PC https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207355205-Optimising-your-PC-for-Audio-on-Windows-10)
> 
> However, we still have the problem that you cannot use VE Pro to host your insert effect plug-ins. Everything has to come off instrument plug-ins. For a producer of music that relies heavily on effect plug-ins, it is impractical to do it just off VE Pro hosted instruments.



I don't follow.

I am able to use all my plugins on VI and audio tracks in VEPro6.

I am sure i am misunderstanding what your issue is.

Clarify please?


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