# "Revenge Of The White Knights" Zimmer-ish thing



## RiffWraith (May 29, 2015)

Recently, I was tasked with composing several "Zimmer style cues" for a music sup I work with. After I was done, I was still in the mood, so I threw this cue together:

*http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/demo/ROTWK.mp3*

As always, any and all feedback is welcome.

Cheers.


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## sleepy hollow (May 29, 2015)

Okay, here's what I think:

- Title is appropriate :D 
- Good build-up, good dynamics (for the lack of a better term - gotta brush up on my music english)
- Slick mix
- Slick mastering (although I can't hear much more than a limiter - says something about the mix)
- Instrumentation is very nice
- Noise in the end needs to be removed (can't let you get away without one minus point) :mrgreen:

I'd love to hear a version with a tad more bass, not just an EQ though. But that doesn't mean this version would sound better, it would just sound different. I love low frequency stuff - no matter what style. Good thing I'm not sitting at my DAW, otherwise I'd have probably tried to ruin your solid work by adding unnecessary elements.

So, Jeffrey, have you considered doing some library work... no wait.. what?? :shock: :mrgreen:


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## Allen Constantine (May 30, 2015)

Hey man, 
I like the construction but I am not hearing enough middle and low frequencies. 
Don't be afraid of the BASS )
All in all good vibe but just maybe you could have added more harmonics to it.


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## John Walker (May 30, 2015)

Works for me. Plenty of bass but the percussion gets a bit ott at times. Good cue.


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## Rctec (May 30, 2015)

...I've written worse!


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## emid (May 30, 2015)

Anything 'Zimmerish' works for me . Great piece Jeff. No complaints about bass. Mr. Hans presence itself tells a lot...


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## dgburns (May 30, 2015)

AllenConstantine @ Sat May 30 said:


> Hey man,
> I like the construction but I am not hearing enough middle and low frequencies.
> Don't be afraid of the BASS )
> All in all good vibe but just maybe you could have added more harmonics to it.



sounds fine over here,maybe it's your monitoring that's letting you down...

not sure what you mean by "harmonics" either ?....

I like the percussion Jeff,what did you use there?

One little thing for me though is I was wondering how to make the spic/stac strings timing less precise.But that's totally a personal thing as the precision of the groove works for the track.I realize the strings move out of the way for the brass anyway as the track develops.I like the Hollywood strings full divisi patches for that,or sometimes adding some solo violins with loose timing pushed back to loosen it up a bit.Totally a personal thing,so take with a grain of salt.

anyway


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## Stradibaldi (Jun 1, 2015)

Great production, better than anything I can do for sure. o-[][]-o And production is 90% of keeping your audience's attention in a piece like this. 

Some composition thoughts:

1. In the breakdown, you have a nicely produced ominous string bass line. But the notes are E-G-A-E, I don't feel this is very tense. Something like E G C Bb; or something more menacing like E G (down to) C D#; would work nicely.

2. You can repeat this once or twice because the breakdown could stand to be longer (as it stands it's just a small breather in the middle of the piece). This lets you create a smoother buildup to the big return. On each repetition you could layer something new like a cool delayed high-hat, or brass swells, or whatever.

3. When you go into that Steve Jablonsky chord chain at 1:30, that's a seriously kick butt, triumphant moment. o-[][]-o Why do it just once? 

Actually, you do this: Em-C Gm-Eb then repeat it exactly: Em-C Gm-Eb

Going from Eb to Em undoes your harmonic momentum. Try -

Em-C, Gm-Eb, Bbm-F#....

It can be chained ad infinitum, you can get off at any floor :D 

Consider these examples. At 1:34 in this track from Kick Ass



or 3:18 in this track from Transformers 2



I'm actually not sure if this is a Zimmery progression per se. But it IS awesome.


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## Jan_S (Jun 2, 2015)

Awesome! Damn you know how to mix!


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## dannymc (Jun 2, 2015)

bloody fantastic Jeff, really enjoyed the cue :wink: 

p.s. love that kick ass theme, remember when i seen the movie for that first time and the fight scene at the end really jumped out at me due to this cue, especially the first 2.30mins. i think its a John Murphy score is'nt it.


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## RiffWraith (Jun 3, 2015)

Hey guys - thank you! 

Headless Horseman: 'noise in the end'? Really??? Not sure I hear anything :/ Thanks otherwise!

Allen - if you are not hearing enough middle and low frequencies, maybe there is a problem with your monitoring, as previously mentioned. There isn't a TON of low end here, but there is quite a bit. Otherwise, thanks!

John - thanks! Ott?

Mr. Z - thanks for the comment. I do not believe you. You can of course, feel free to post something and prove me wrong! :D 

emid - thanks!

dg - not sure what "harmonics" means either :/ I hear you on the strings, and you are def. not wrong. However, when it comes to these fast passages, and when perc and synths are involved, I tend to not go too far with the human quant, as it can sometimes sound a bit funky.

Jan - thanks!

dan - thanks!

Stradi - thanks a lot for taking the time to write the detailed notes. I do like the progression as-is tho. 

Cheers.


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## sleepy hollow (Jun 3, 2015)

RiffWraith @ Wed 03 Jun said:


> Headless Horseman


Haha! :mrgreen: 




RiffWraith @ Wed 03 Jun said:


> 'noise in the end'? Really??? Not sure I hear anything :/ Thanks otherwise!


There's some noise, really. It's not that loud, but I could clearly hear it. Listen for something that sounds like pink noise + a bandpass filter. It's definetely not a reverb tail or something. It comes in shortly after that last hit. Maybe it's just noise from the libraries adding up? It changes a bit in volume (gets louder), probably because of compression/limiting.


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## RiffWraith (Jun 3, 2015)

Oh that. Yeah - that's sample lib noise build-up. Hmmm... gotta see if I can take care of that....


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## wst3 (Jun 3, 2015)

turn it up loud enough to hear the noise and I worry for my hearing<G>... seriously well done piece from start to finish - the arc works really well, and the production is first rate. Dang!


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## Mark Stothard (Jun 4, 2015)

Superb in every way Jeff.


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## kfirpr (Jun 4, 2015)

Hi Very good cue!
However I think you can widen the stereo image a bit, maybe it's my imagination but I think there is more energy in the Right channel compare to the left.. or maybe it's my shitty headphones


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## RiffWraith (Jun 4, 2015)

Thanks guys! 

kfirpr > must be your cans


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## Leo Badinella (Jul 18, 2015)

Excellent track Jeff


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## R. Soul (Jul 18, 2015)

Very nice.

Your 'threw together' is my 'worked on endlessly for days'. :oops:


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## IoannisGutevas (Jul 19, 2015)

Very very nice!


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## RiffWraith (Jul 20, 2015)

Thanks guys!


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## mwarsell (Jul 24, 2015)

Impressive track. About the ominous string bass line, I'd really like to hear E, G, A, C (if in Em), I keep hearing it going to C, even the first time, but it didn't. Don't know. Maybe I'm just a sucker for VI (pun intended).


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## ClefferNotes (Jul 24, 2015)

Very very nice! Great job! :D


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## bryla (Jul 24, 2015)

Great track, Jeff! Always a pleasure to listen to your music


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## RiffWraith (Jul 25, 2015)

Hey guys - thanks so much!


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