# Use of English horn



## MoonFlare (Feb 21, 2013)

Hi,

Flute, oboe, clarinet and bassoon are all good. However, I'm not that familiar with the English horn. I may use it if I want sort of a more esoteric score of some kind, but working on traditional orchestral pieces I found myself never using it. So, does anybody have an advice on how/when to use this instrument? Are there situations where it is particularly good (yielding some nice colours, etc.)?


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## windshore (Feb 21, 2013)

Love the sound of english horn. It has such a rich sound. It's certainly great as a solo instrument when you want a darker sound than oboe, but also good when you can pair with flutes. I'd go for it when you can let it stand out a bit somehow. A quieter, moodier section would be a good place to try it.


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## George Caplan (Feb 21, 2013)

a prime example would be dvoraks new world symphony slow movement. you might also want to consider the oboe d'amor.


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## SweenyNickat (Feb 21, 2013)

I use the english horn very often in my orchestral pieces, because it has such a amazing sound and gives unique colours to some orchestral pieces. Especially as solo instrument it is worth a lot!

Too bad that it is a very underestimated instrument (no wonder, it's woodwind)...


EDIT: @windshore: damn it, you were faster


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## ryans (Feb 21, 2013)

Blends very well with violas...

Ryan


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 21, 2013)

One of my favorite orchestral instruments. Nothing says "poignant" like an english horn.


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## Stephen Rees (Feb 21, 2013)

Check out Sibelius 'The Swan of Tuonela' or Vaughan Williams Symphony No.5 - opening of the Romanza movement for a couple of beautiful uses of cor anglais. Wonderful music.

Stephen


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## FriFlo (Feb 21, 2013)

The english horn is close to the oboe and basson. You use it as a solo instrument, when your melodie is kind of looking for that sweet oboe register, but is to deep for the oboe to have that kind of tone. The lower register of the oboe is quite trumpet-like. Not sweet at all!


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 21, 2013)

George Caplan @ Thu Feb 21 said:


> a prime example would be dvoraks new world symphony slow movement.



+1


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## MoonFlare (Feb 22, 2013)

Thanks guys for sharing of your vast pool of knowledge!

Also, thanks for the examples!


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## mducharme (Feb 22, 2013)

As was pretty much said by others, it is essentially an alto oboe. The regular oboe tends to honk a bit in its bottommost range (just above and including the oboe's lowest possible note, the Bb a whole-step below middle C). The english horn can get all the way down to its bottom sounding E natural on the third space of the bass clef (written B natural) without having this issue.


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## Daryl (Feb 22, 2013)

I just think that it's funny that we say Cor Anglais in French, but French Horn in English. :lol: 

D


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## mducharme (Feb 22, 2013)

Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> I just think that it's funny that we say Cor Anglais in French, but French Horn in English. :lol:
> 
> D



What the French call a Cor Anglais is called an English Horn in English.


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## Daryl (Feb 22, 2013)

mducharme @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > I just think that it's funny that we say Cor Anglais in French, but French Horn in English. :lol:
> ...


No native English speaker would ever say English Horn; we would always say Cor Anglais. That's why I think it's funny that we say French Horn in English, rather than French.

D


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## mducharme (Feb 22, 2013)

Oh right, I forgot that the British strangely call it a Cor Anglais (using the French term) instead of an English Horn. In North America, as far as I've seen/heard, it's called an English Horn and not a Cor Anglais.


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 22, 2013)

Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> mducharme @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> ...



You are British, so you don't actually speak English as we Americans do


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## Daryl (Feb 22, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > mducharme @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> ...


You guys speak English? :shock: 

D


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 22, 2013)

Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> ...



Yes, we are the only ones that do.


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Feb 22, 2013)

mducharme @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> As was pretty much said by others, it is essentially an alto oboe. The regular oboe tends to honk a bit in its bottommost range (just above and including the oboe's lowest possible note, the Bb a whole-step below middle C).



Actually, there is also the 'oboe d'amore' (in Italian), or 'hautbois d'amour' (in French), which is like the mezzo-soprano among the oboe family members. Bach often wrote for this instrument, as well as for the 'oboe da caccia' (=Italian) which can be seen as the original alto version of the oboe, and which is in fact the predecessor of the 'cor anglais'. The 'oboe d'amore' is pitched/tuned in A, it's lowest note, which must be the lowest note any (mezzo-) soprano oboe can go.

I believe there is a VSL 'oboe d'amore', in case you just need that extra (half) note, and you don't want to blend in a 'cor anglais' with a significantly different character of tone. Very useful for melodies written in (more or less) the violin range. Isn't it great we have so much choice with samples, nowadays? 8) 

If you need more examples of the English horn in action, make sure you listen to Ravel (for instance, the final part of the 2nd movement of the piano concerto in G) and of course Prokofiev's masterpiece 'Pierre et le loup' (in French), or 'Петя и волк' in Russian.  

- Jerome


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## Jimbo 88 (Feb 22, 2013)

Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> ...




‘England and America are two countries separated by the same language’


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 22, 2013)

> You guys speak English?



Actually - ducking and running - most of the English spoken in England has become a lot less artful than it was when I lived there in 1968.

And I say that without regard for the class issues, I say it because I don't find Estuary aesthetically pleasing; I'd much rather listen to Sting speak than to Adele.

It's hard to listen to Larry King or Regis Philbin for the same reason. There's an art to speech, and I hope it doesn't get lost.


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## Daryl (Feb 22, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> > You guys speak English?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No ducking and running needed. For the second time today, I agree with you...!

D


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## mark812 (Feb 22, 2013)

I use Cor anglais mainly for solos (sounds beautiful) and to extend the range of the oboe downward. One instrument that's often neglected as well that is the Bass clarinet, I really like the sound of it.


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## TheUnfinished (Feb 22, 2013)

Ah, but then... who does a decent cor anglais?

The only one with a tone that I really like is the one from the old Miroslav Philharmonik library.


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## Rob (Feb 22, 2013)

The funny thing is that "cor anglais" has nothing english to it... It means "curved horn", or "angled" if you want...


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## Jimbo 88 (Feb 22, 2013)

TheUnfinished @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> Ah, but then... who does a decent cor anglais?
> 
> The only one with a tone that I really like is the one from the old Miroslav Philharmonik library.



Roland use to have a great sounding Oboe back in the rack module days. It was a mixture of a sample and analogue synth I believe..

I loved that patch, but that just might be nostalgia at work.


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## Rob (Feb 22, 2013)

With the known limitations of it, Wivi had a nice cor anglais... Too much key noises in this old example of mine, but still...

http://www.robertosoggetti.com/steppes_ ... xcerpt.mp3


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## MikeH (Feb 22, 2013)

Rob, that's the cue that made me run out and get WIVI Pro a few years back! The enormous leap in control made it 100% worth it.


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## Rob (Feb 22, 2013)

Fortunately you don't regret it!  but it's true, the control in the pro version makes a huge difference...


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## Darryl Jackson (Feb 22, 2013)

My one disappointment in Berlin Woodwind's offerings was the English Horn. I'm curious about whether or not anyone feels the same, but I absolutely -hate- the sound of the English Horn in BWW (and I find the rest of the library to be phenomenal, including the other reeds). I may have to look at WIVI, or at the very least stepping up the amount of articulations in my VSL English Horn. 

It's just a shame, since I love everything else about the library, even with its high CPU usage.

*Edit; *To clarify as well as stay on topic, this is the sort of tone I absolutely love in the English Horn and one of my favorite passages that features the instrument: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... vDNA#t=29s

(It jumps into its upper range at around 1:48, which is what VSL did pretty well at in particular)

Obviously, the usual issues with trying to compare real solo instruments vs virtual ones could arise, but again, I feel that VSL was much closer to that kind of sound than I can get with the BWW English Horn. Something about nearly _all_ of its legato transitions sounds off, making it almost sound like each note is being faded in (or maybe like a terrible reed is being used, but the tone sounds just fine when the transition volume is turned all the way down).


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## Ryan Scully (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm really quite fond of the English Horn in CineWinds Pro. As mentioned earlier in the thread, nothing speaks more to me of the English Horn than Dvorak's New Word Symphony as well - It was naturally the first melodic line I tried with the instrument and I was subsequently sold : ) 



Ryan :D


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## Mahlon (Feb 22, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> > You guys speak English?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree. Wholeheartedly.

And it was a brilliant farce, but unfortunately, Moon Zappa changed everything.

Best,
Mahlon


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## Mahlon (Feb 22, 2013)

As a related note: Bernard Herrmann had a loverly speaking voice, as well as F. Scott Fitzgerald (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ExgUSmIXlc). I think the Mid-Atlantic accent is probably the height of our humble colonial sophistication.

That or Foghorn Leghorn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV0-049G-kw)

Mahlon

EDIT: Sorry, back to topic.


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## david robinson (Feb 23, 2013)

BWW: cor is not that nice. some sustains are really annoying if repeated.
rest is pretty good.
the cor in the old AOE is very nice.
the old EWQL cor2 is very nice sounding.
there's also a "sweet" cor and oboe made by FS which very nice. j.


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Feb 23, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> I'd much rather listen to Sting speak than to Adele. (...) There's an art to speech, and I hope it doesn't get lost.



I agree, no matter what the experts say about Sting:
Check _this_ out! :mrgreen: 

I would like to take the opportunity to say that i.m.o. Adèle is one of the most overrated artists in he world. I really hope Walter Murphy will win the Oscar for Best Song this year, instead of Miss Adèle. I don't want to see her pick up another award on behalf of Thomas Newman; my ears still bleed from her unnecessarily loud acceptance speech at the Baftas 2013! :evil: 

By the way, those who still think the British and the Americans speak the same language probably also think that Renée Zellweger delivered a believable British accent in Bridget Jones' Diarrhea. :wink: 

One more thing, I once bought a CD with a one-hour interview with Bernard Herrmann near the end of his life, in which he keeps yelling at the younger generation of filmmakers and composers who he thinks are mediocre at best and who he believes don't understand or appreciate what film scoring really is about. In this particular interview, there's no trace of this so-called 'lovely voice' at all. He is just ranting all the time at a loud voice. A rather sobering experience I must say, 'cause I used to see him as the infallible saint of film music, full of energy and ideas, not as this frustrated, grumpy old man. :( 

To stay on topic, did Bernard Herrmann ever write for the English horn? Any examples?

- Jerome


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Feb 23, 2013)

Darryl Jackson @ Sat Feb 23 said:


> My one disappointment in Berlin Woodwind's offerings was the English Horn. I'm curious about whether or not anyone feels the same, but I absolutely -hate- the sound of the English Horn in BWW (and I find the rest of the library to be phenomenal, including the other reeds). I may have to look at WIVI, or at the very least stepping up the amount of articulations in my VSL English Horn.
> 
> It's just a shame, since I love everything else about the library, even with its high CPU usage.
> 
> ...


 
I agree. In my opinion it's by far the weakest component of an otherwise incredible library.


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## rayinstirling (Feb 23, 2013)

My recent use of VSE English Horn
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29691

I had forgotten about the WIVI one. Apart from clarinet I only bought the WIVI Brass


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## George Caplan (Feb 23, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> x
> 
> I'd much rather listen to Sting speak than to Adele.



:lol: :lol: :lol: youll never work in london again. especially tottenham.


english horn. also try concierto de aranjuez 2nd movement.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 23, 2013)

Jerome - hahaha. 

Actually I like Adele's singing. It's when she talks that I want to reach for the Mute button.

And by the way, Sting doesn't have a particularly posh accent - which is why I used him as an example rather than, say, John Cleese.


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## MoonFlare (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks for all the "on topic" replies! Hehe.


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## Sasje (Mar 2, 2013)

I love the cor anglais. To me it sounds like somewhere in between an oboe and a bassoon. Works great with a clarinet!


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