# Orchestral Film Scores ... why so difficult!



## fido94 (Oct 17, 2010)

Obviously, finding orchestral film scores to buy is quite difficult with few exceptions like the John Williams series.

I recently discovered a website called xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Deleted from a mod due to possible legal reasons) where people trade all kind of sheet music. What I was most surprised is that many people have full orchestral scores that is impossible to find in the market to buy (e.g., Hans Zimmer, John Debney .. you name it).

I'm not sure how people are getting those copies other than someone having connections. I just wish the composers that we all admire and love would make those scores more accessible to us. :cry:


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## bryla (Oct 17, 2010)

I actually have found composers be willing to share their work - if they are not A-list kind of guys - if you ask them. Marco Beltrami even has a lot of free scores for download on his website.


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## nikolas (Oct 17, 2010)

A few things to consider.

First of all, I deleted the link, due to possible legal reasons (for example they have my own scores up there, which is not legal, since I still hold my copyrights and they never asked me... I will be moving against that). Due to that idea I still have the link of course but decided to delete the link, and discuss it with the mods/admins afterwards. If the VI staff decide that it's ok to have the link, I've no problem, if not, job done.

Now, on why the film scores are generally hard/imposible to find: Because they are commerically suicide really. Apart from you lot there's very few people who would buy a full score. And if it is connected with a big name, and a big movie, it sheds a very bad light to have sold 69 scores in total! (for example).

As Bryla says: Contact the composer themselves, and I would assume some would be willing to share stuff (if you consider how many composers in here already share their knowledge apart from their scores, mp3s, etc).


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## fido94 (Oct 17, 2010)

I fully understand and appreciate your perspectives guys. Few points to add:
- I would love to pay for the scores instead of something like this. The reason why such website exist is partly due to the lack of availability of materials.
- In our digital age, I wouldn't expect to receive an actual printed score. Why don't composers consider putting the scores for sale as pdf files and it would cost very little I would think.
- I did try 2 years ago contacting the agency of a major composer as I was dying to get one of his scores. Never heard back of course.

I'm sure everyone appreciates that composers like Marco and others that are part of the VI family are willing to share their work, techniques etc... that's why VI is such an awesome place!


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## fido94 (Oct 17, 2010)

oh .. on more point. not all of the sheet music available there violate copyrights. For instance, there are non-copyrighted materials as well as transcriptions made by other musicians. I just don't want it sound that I'm promoting violating copyright stuff.


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## nikolas (Oct 17, 2010)

No, I know you're not promoting anything illegal 'per se', but as it appears (and I still haven't heard from the VI staff) there are also copyrighted material. 

It's very sad, and I'm a big believer of freeware, open source, etc, as well as free education, and as such I do think that contemporary music (for example), is being lost because of copyrights! However, sad as it is, the law is the law... :( 

Transciptions fall into a grey area themselves I think.

As I said, I'm also waiting for the rest of the mods to discuss this, I'm not sure I did the right thing...


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## rgames (Oct 17, 2010)

fido94 @ Sun Oct 17 said:


> Why don't composers consider putting the scores for sale as pdf files and it would cost very little I would think.


How many of the "big names" actually own their scores? My guess is that a lot of that work is work-for-hire in the film world, so the composer has no right to offer the scores for sale - the music is wholly owned by the studio.

For example - look at John Williams' scores - his name does not appear on the copyright info.

rgames


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## bryla (Oct 17, 2010)

fido94 @ Sun Oct 17 said:


> - I did try 2 years ago contacting the agency of a major composer as I was dying to get one of his scores. Never heard back of course.
> 
> I'm sure everyone appreciates that composers like Marco and others that are part of the VI family are willing to share their work, techniques etc... that's why VI is such an awesome place!


Try contacting the composers personally.

Marco is not a member of VI (AFAIK). He's one of the busy pro's that share his work.


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## gsilbers (Oct 17, 2010)

rgames @ Sun Oct 17 said:


> fido94 @ Sun Oct 17 said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't composers consider putting the scores for sale as pdf files and it would cost very little I would think.
> ...



Correct. 

They don't make it assesible because it's now theirs.

Now , why studios don't sell those scores I dunno.
Trade secret ? I'm curious myself.

Scott smaller does orchestration classes in ny and la and he gives away two huge books of famous scores. Great reaource.
Sone score even have the sketches


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## JJP (Oct 17, 2010)

gsilbers @ Sun Oct 17 said:


> They don't make it assesible because it's now theirs.
> 
> Now , why studios don't sell those scores I dunno.
> Trade secret ? I'm curious myself.


I think it's just doesn't make financial sense to publish them. Large format paper, recopying, editing, just for a few sales that will never make up the expenditure.

However, it is possible to get access to some studio music libraries. You usually have to sign some paperwork from their legal department, and you can usually only view the scores on-site, but it can be done. In addition, the Warner Bros archives are now housed at USC. Once you get legal clearance, you have to submit a request for materials and pay a service fee for them to do a search and pull the materials for you to view at their facility. You can also pay to have them copy certain materials for you. (The university doesn't want you making copies yourself and potentially damaging their documents.)


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## stevenson-again (Oct 18, 2010)

> ow many of the "big names" actually own their scores? My guess is that a lot of that work is work-for-hire in the film world, so the composer has no right to offer the scores for sale - the music is wholly owned by the studio.
> 
> For example - look at John Williams' scores - his name does not appear on the copyright info.



actually worth pointing out - this is a US thing only. everywhere else composers retain the copyright - they assign synchronization rights to the movie or TV show. it can lead to confusion for example when gabriel yared posted his (incredibly amazing) rejected score for troy.

also, there is a difference between mechanical rights and performing rights. the composer may be free to sell his dots, but not the performing rights, or any recordings. it's a slightly grey area.

the best way of getting a hold of scores is to go to hire service (for orchestral music) and say you are looking to put on a light classical concert and you are interested in putting such and such - do they have a score available for you to check if it would be suitable for your orchestra?

then when the score arrives.... you can stare at it so long it is printed indelibly into your memory.... 

i have a conductor mate round the corner who is obsessed with film music. he has the most vast collection of scores imaginable - all acquired in similar fashion - or on the black market. including some had written scores taken directly from the sessions of some pretty big movies. very cool - but it does give you a bit of a headache to look at.


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## Hal (Oct 18, 2010)

i was asking the same question and i was looking dying to find any scores for any price but i didnt never for sale..dont exist and i think i know the site ur talking about

one of the things i found while searchinf is that the reason is
to control the performance copyright for the tracks ..?!

well they dont want it to be played on stage so they dont sell it !


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## bryla (Oct 18, 2010)

that's not a valid reason, Hal. People transcribe and record and perform these works as they wish....


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## Steve Martin (Oct 19, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I contacted the Warner Bros archives about the topic of film scores, and the person who wrote back to me, kindly provided some information to me, which I will share with you.

_The USC Warner Bros Archives houses feature film, tv and cartoon scores up
to the year 1967 from Warner Bros. There is no fee to come to the USC
Warner Bros Archives in person to view scores, but researchers must have a
focused research project with specific outcome in development. The archive
requires 4-6 weeks advance notice to schedule appointments. Duplicates of
cues from scores require permission from Warner Bros Studio. Additionally,
duplication fees are charged to the researcher by the archives. To request
services, please refer to the Warner Bros Archives Research Request form on
this web page: http://www.usc.edu/libraries/collections/warner_bros/

Other scores may be available for study through the Cinematic Arts Library
at the University of Southern California._

I hope this is helpful to anyone who wants to know more about the archives.

best,

Steve


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