# Alan Silvestri interview by NI



## ALittleNightMusic

Great to hear his stories and insights into the composing process


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## Richard Wilkinson

little Silvestri anecdote - a year ago, on piano day, I posted a snippet on instagram of me playing the theme to Welcome To Marwen. We'd just seen the film and I thought it was a really lovely theme so quickly played it from memory and posted it. The next morning, I had an instagram private message from Alan Silvestri saying how he really liked my playing - and a video of him playing the theme himself on his piano at home. From one of my film music heroes that was a pretty special thing to see. What a gent!


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## CT

Really interesting, thanks for sharing!


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## dcoscina

Silvestri is a class act. I dig a lot of his scores. I love that he's got a pretty low tech set up. Just shows you don't need a massive studio with gear to write excellent music.


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## CT

Yeah, I like his relatively clean and straightforward approach, and his desk setup is very similar to mine. Maybe I don't have to constantly second-guess it....


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## Markrs

Noticed Alan is using a Nektar P6 Panorama keyboard, which has never had much love. I have Nektar T4 which is okay but, I never really took to it that much.


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## dcoscina

Markrs said:


> Noticed Alan is using a Nektar P6 Panorama keyboard, which has never had much love. I have Nektar T4 which is okay but, I never really took to it that much.


Since orchestral composing is largely about independent lines, if you are putting things together in an old-school manner, most instruments do not have an 88 note range. Unless one needs real-time KS or is keyboard composing, 4 or 5 octaves is usually enough. Liszt used a 3 octave keyboard to compose... dude had no issues with his orchestral writing.. I''m seriously thinking of just moving down to a Arturia Keylab 49 or 61Mk2 when my Kurzweil dies.. and buy a Nord Grand just for composing on the old-fashioned way.


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## CT

dcoscina said:


> Since orchestral composing is largely about independent lines, if you are putting things together in an old-school manner, most instruments do not have an 88 note range. Unless one needs real-time KS or is keyboard composing, 4 or 5 octaves is usually enough. Liszt used a 3 octave keyboard to compose... dude had no issues with his orchestral writing.. I''m seriously thinking of just moving down to a Arturia Keylab 49 or 61Mk2 when my Kurzweil dies.. and buy a Nord Grand just for composing on the old-fashioned way.


Yeah, if I had a real piano on hand for proper playing and recording, I'd just be using a 61 key controller maybe for sample stuff.


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## Consona

The last thing I'd expect from Alan Silvestri is to load up Damage.


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## ALittleNightMusic

Consona said:


> The last thing I'd expect from Alan Silvestri is to load up Damage.


I'm assuming that given it was for NI, he was going to showcase the NI / Kontakt instruments. You can get some sneak peaks at some of the other stuff he has though. Plus, since he's writing for the Avengers, probably can use those Damage drums!

Here's a screenshot of his track archive presets for example - lot of EWHO in there (do you think he's preordered Opus ):


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## mscp

dcoscina said:


> Silvestri is a class act. I dig a lot of his scores. I love that he's got a pretty low tech set up. Just shows you don't need a massive studio with gear to write excellent music.


Pencil, paper, and a digital piano is kind of all everyone needs really -- if they intend to recording everything live.


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## Stringtree

What a graceful and articulate interview. We truly live in the future. 

It's like being invited to a church on the perfect musical Sunday with the perfect weather to see what happens inside, with the windows open to the sky, and the music pouring out. Universal Awesome.


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## dcoscina

Phil81 said:


> Pencil, paper, and a digital piano is kind of all everyone needs really -- if they intend to recording everything live.


I would assume he still needs to provide mock ups. My guess is everything is under the hood so to speak. I was reacting to the lack of outboard gear and massive controllers/ipads/etc on his desk.


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## mscp

dcoscina said:


> I would assume he still needs to provide mock ups. My guess is everything is under the hood so to speak. I was reacting to the lack of outboard gear and massive controllers/ipads/etc on his desk.


Yea. Most likely. One powerful computer filled with RAM - and bob's your uncle.


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## dcoscina

Phil81 said:


> Yea. Most likely. One powerful computer filled with RAM - and bob's your uncle.


Indeed. I’m almost embarrassed to admit most of my orchestral works, especially concert works, have been composed on a MacBook Air using Dorico and Sibelius with NP. And my keyboard is a Korg Microkey 49.


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## TintoL

Wow, Alan Silvestri himself sharing his process. Very grateful for his openness and for sharing all this. 

Such simple setup and he is actually using a simple Nektar p6. Loading as he goes with track archives. Such simplicity. 

It makes me feel how much I am overthinking the keyboard gear thing. Maybe I should do like dcoscina and simply do the whole thing in a tiny keyboard.


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## prodigalson

TintoL said:


> Wow, Alan Silvestri himself sharing his process. Very grateful for his openness and for sharing all this.
> 
> Such simple setup and he is actually using a simple Nektar p6. Loading as he goes with track archives. Such simplicity.
> 
> It makes me feel how much I am overthinking the keyboard gear thing. Maybe I should do like dcoscina and simply do the whole thing in a tiny keyboard.


I wouldn't overthink your overthinking. Everyone's different including A-list composers. He may not need a super fancy 88-key controller for his note input but he does have a real acoustic upright in the same room and a Grand Steinway in his house somewhere else so he's not doing all his writing on a Nektar and I'm sure he's not doing too much initial sketching and piano-based noodling on it either. 

But I do find it interesting that he's running Cubase on a Mac and from what I can tell he's running everything in VEPro on the same machine. likely with hundreds of gigs of RAM. Interesting that this is John Powell's set up now too (though with Logic). Everything local in one machine but hosted in VEPro running in the background.


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## dcoscina

TintoL said:


> Wow, Alan Silvestri himself sharing his process. Very grateful for his openness and for sharing all this.
> 
> Such simple setup and he is actually using a simple Nektar p6. Loading as he goes with track archives. Such simplicity.
> 
> It makes me feel how much I am overthinking the keyboard gear thing. Maybe I should do like dcoscina and simply do the whole thing in a tiny keyboard.


For me at least it’s very liberating to have the tech remain as transparent as possible. Too many gadgets and I find I get hung up on the tech and not the music itself. Staffpad was a revelation last summer as it removed almost all artifice from the compositional process as far as getting ideas down.


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## dcoscina

prodigalson said:


> I wouldn't overthink your overthinking. Everyone's different including A-list composers. He may not need a super fancy 88-key controller for his note input but he does have a real acoustic upright in the same room and a Grand Steinway in his house somewhere else so he's not doing all his writing on a Nektar and I'm sure he's not doing too much initial sketching and piano-based noodling on it either.
> 
> But I do find it interesting that he's running Cubase on a Mac and from what I can tell he's running everything in VEPro on the same machine. likely with hundreds of gigs of RAM. Interesting that this is John Powell's set up now too (though with Logic). Everything local in one machine but hosted in VEPro running in the background.


I should get back into VEP as it’s very powerful. But I seldom have the track count that warrants it


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## ALittleNightMusic

dcoscina said:


> I should get back into VEP as it’s very powerful. But I seldom have the track count that warrants it


My experience with it running locally was that a disabled template in Cubase was MUCH more efficient and easy to work with.


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## TintoL

prodigalson said:


> I wouldn't overthink your overthinking. Everyone's different including A-list composers. He may not need a super fancy 88-key controller for his note input but he does have a real acoustic upright in the same room and a Grand Steinway in his house somewhere else so he's not doing all his writing on a Nektar and I'm sure he's not doing too much initial sketching and piano-based noodling on it either.


Well, I think you are right. It's still good to double check your thoughts. His case might be simpler, because he only uses his desk for composing music. I can not have a full 61 keyboard in front of me when I am doing my day to day animation /programming work. After having a chunk of slaves and two desktops, there is no way I am coming back to maintaining two desks and a bunch of slaves.

Alan Silvestri's process does shoes me that the simple task of writing is more important than the tools. maybe....



dcoscina said:


> For me at least it’s very liberating to have the tech remain as transparent as possible. Too many gadgets and I find I get hung up on the tech and not the music itself. Staffpad was a revelation last summer as it removed almost all artifice from the compositional process as far as getting ideas down.


I am also thinking about diving into this staffpad rout. But, it's a bit intimidating to me as I am probably too used to compose playing a full piano sketch and then playing lines and trying lines in a keyboard rather than writing notes.


The VEP route I am not sure after using that for such long time. It was kind of tiring having to maintain the vep setup too. Also, how much time would it take to make all those file archives that Alan is using? It just makes me feel tired by just seeing it. I mean, creating and maintaining that template idea was such a waste of time for me now that I see it.


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## tabulius

What was amazing to me how he could recall and open the instruments in Cubase AND VEP. This is a different than track presets right? There is only one reason I still hope to get the VEP solution to work, is saving times in Studio One. But it is super time consuming to use it, especially how Studio One handles instrument tracks and routing. Or if Presonus will add background saving in future updates...

Interesting (but short) interview for sure!


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## TintoL

tabulius said:


> What was amazing to me how he could recall and open the instruments in Cubase AND VEP. This is a different than track presets right? There is only one reason I still hope to get the VEP solution to work, is saving times in Studio One. But it is super time consuming to use it, especially how Studio One handles instrument tracks and routing. Or if Presonus will add background saving in future updates...
> 
> Interesting (but short) interview for sure!


It's completely different from track presets. With track presets you have to deal with the track preset window which I find clunky. To organize.

The track archive saves a whole cubase file with all routing in a cubase file. You are kind of importing from that file. The track preset I... thiiiink is an xml file? I think the only way to get cubase to create a vep instrument track is by saving the whole setup in a track archive.

But, you still need to maintain any adjustment in cubase and vep. Plus, if you are sending all to cubase from vep in a single audio output, you have to pre-mix in VEP, otherwise you need a chunk of a gazilion of audio outputs to be tracked and maintain into cubase just to be able to mix in cubase.

I might be wrong, but I think I am right with the track archive.


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## ALittleNightMusic

tabulius said:


> What was amazing to me how he could recall and open the instruments in Cubase AND VEP. This is a different than track presets right? There is only one reason I still hope to get the VEP solution to work, is saving times in Studio One. But it is super time consuming to use it, especially how Studio One handles instrument tracks and routing. Or if Presonus will add background saving in future updates...
> 
> Interesting (but short) interview for sure!


One of the reasons I had to go back to Cubase for now. Hopefully Studio One can address that soon.



TintoL said:


> The track archive saves a whole cubase file with all routing in a cubase file. You are kind of importing from that file. The track preset I... thiiiink is an xml file? I think the only way to get cubase to create a vep instrument track is by saving the whole setup in a track archive.


Track archives are XML files (not CPR files), but you are on the right track that they save things like routing and instruments (which would then allow him to connect / spin up the appropriate VEP instance). One thing that track archives currently don't save for whatever reason is expression maps.


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## TintoL

ALittleNightMusic said:


> One thing that track archives currently don't save for whatever reason is expression maps.


Whaaat..... noooohhhh, That is something that is key for me. I wanted to implement a basic setup for track archives... nooohhhh....

Thanks for that piece of info... And thanks for clarifying my doubts.

VEP..... will continue to get dusty in that hard drive... nah... not worth it


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## easyrider

I'm surprised he doesn't have a ready to go templete....


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## Thundercat

dcoscina said:


> Indeed. I’m almost embarrassed to admit most of my orchestral works, especially concert works, have been composed on a MacBook Air using Dorico and Sibelius with NP. And my keyboard is a Korg Microkey 49.


Whaaaah? I done my best work on Sibelius/Dorico plus NotePerformer! Don't apologize!

Beethoven did his best work with pencil, paper, and NO HEARING! 

One of the modern plagues of all this digital goodness is we composers want things to SOUND as glorious as we imagine them. So we often spend too much time on gear and chasing after the elusive snipe, when in all reality the greats always did it with almost no resources, very simply.

Look at JW with his pencil and paper too...


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## dcoscina

ALittleNightMusic said:


> My experience with it running locally was that a disabled template in Cubase was MUCH more efficient and easy to work with.


yeah I kinda prefer that too. As far as routing and everything, it's nice to have everything under 1 roof. And I'm still in Studio One land and I'm enjoying making my own presets and such


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## InLight-Tone

Too bad Track Archives can't be browsed and loaded from Media Bay as well...


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## Jeremy Gillam

Can anyone identify what's going on in this screen capture where it looks like MIDI notes are overlaid with a CC or automation lane? I don't remember seeing this view in Cubase -- it doesn't look like the In-Place editor.


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## zolhof

Jeremy Gillam said:


> Can anyone identify what's going on in this screen capture where it looks like MIDI notes are overlaid with a CC or automation lane? I don't remember seeing this view in Cubase -- it doesn't look like the In-Place editor.


Project -> Automation Panel -> Settings -> Check "Show Data on Tracks"






edit. You also need to click the small arrow at the lower left corner of the track to show the automation lane.


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## Jeremy Gillam

zolhof said:


> Project -> Automation Panel -> Settings -> Check "Show Data on Tracks"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit. You also need to click the small arrow at the lower left corner of the track to show the automation lane.


Thank you. Gosh, I wish you could edit actual CC data in the project page without converting it to automation.


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## Shad0wLandsUK

ALittleNightMusic said:


> One thing that track archives currently don't save for whatever reason is expression maps.


Yeah I noticed this when I was going ahead to setup this process earlier on today after watching the video

Hope they fix this soon


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## marclawsonmusic

That was an awesome video. He is one of my favorite film composers.

Very cool that he uses a modular approach to his template. Definitely not using VEP with decouple / preserve. This is the 'load as you go' approach. Still very effective and he has everything at the ready.

But, damn... everyone is using Cubase these days!!! I am really fighting the urge to switch... Logic has been pissing me off lately.


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## CT

marclawsonmusic said:


> But, damn... everyone is using Cubase these days!!! I am really fighting the urge to switch... Logic has been pissing me off lately.


Same situation here... what's bugging you?


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## marclawsonmusic

Mike T said:


> Same situation here... what's bugging you?


AU3 with VEPro is still 'beta', and has some issues. For example, tempo sync doesn't work inside VEPro.

Track delay is also broken. I can't set negative (or positive) delay on MIDI tracks.

Those are two things lately - and pretty important if you are trying to run a large template.


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## marclawsonmusic

Mike T said:


> Same situation here... what's bugging you?


How about you? What are you struggling with? Something you saw in the video?


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## ALittleNightMusic

marclawsonmusic said:


> But, damn... everyone is using Cubase these days!!! I am really fighting the urge to switch... Logic has been pissing me off lately.


Don't worry - John Powell is still on Logic.


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## CT

marclawsonmusic said:


> How about you? What are you struggling with? Something you saw in the video?


It's more like there are a bunch of little oddities that I run into on a daily basis that make me wonder what the heck is going on behind the scenes if things like that can survive for so long without getting rectified in updates. 

Now it's totally possible a lot of it is down to me not knowing enough about how the damn thing works in the first place... but I have a feeling that isn't it.

Also, that idea I had years ago of the arrange window displaying notation instead of those useless MIDI bars... still nothing like that, but I don't expect it from other DAWs as Logic still seems to lead as far as notation capabilities go.


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## MauroPantin

Thanks for sharing. I am actually in the process of implementing something modular that is similar to his approach. Once I am done with the current projects I will overhaul the entire template and hopefully simplify things to something akin to this minus the VEPro. Over time I've been adding tracks to my template as I've been needing them and now I have too many disabled tracks, it is becoming a nuisance to find stuff and manage screen real state.


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## Ned Bouhalassa

I noticed a similar track-naming convention in Powell’s screen capture of his template - any chance that these two composers are using a template setup by someone else?


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## Alex Fraser

dcoscina said:


> Indeed. I’m almost embarrassed to admit most of my orchestral works, especially concert works, have been composed on a MacBook Air using Dorico and Sibelius with NP. And my keyboard is a Korg Microkey 49.


A lot my "on ivories" time is spent on an NI M32 nowadays. A lot more comfortable than doing gymnastics over 88 hammers all the time.


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## dcoscina

Alex Fraser said:


> A lot my "on ivories" time is spent on an NI M32 nowadays. A lot more comfortable than doing gymnastics over 88 hammers all the time.


Exactly. Composing is like architecture- it takes a lot of tweaking and moving things around. It’s methodical. I still enjoy playing my Kurzweil for ideas but once they take hold it’s less about the keyboard and more about manipulating the notes in the daw or notation program.


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## rpaillot

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I'm assuming that given it was for NI, he was going to showcase the NI / Kontakt instruments. You can get some sneak peaks at some of the other stuff he has though. Plus, since he's writing for the Avengers, probably can use those Damage drums!
> 
> Here's a screenshot of his track archive presets for example - lot of EWHO in there (do you think he's preordered Opus ):


Ahah !
Nerd alert..

I also spotted "abbey road orchestral samples" in his kontakt folder architecture...  and this is not spitfire obviously as abbey road uses a private player.


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## Alex Fraser

Having watched the video again, what strikes me is the ergonomics of the rig. Alan is sat quite high at the desk and everything is in easy reach, with the piano and manuscript a quick chair turn away. I think I might try this setup.
_<Takes notes>_


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## gst98

Alex Fraser said:


> Having watched the video again, what strikes me is the ergonomics of the rig. Alan is sat quite high at the desk and everything is in easy reach, with the piano and manuscript a quick chair turn away. I think I might try this setup.
> _<Takes notes>_


Also was surprised to see him using an iMac. The second monitor for the slave was a Mac also, so it must be a Mac Pro, either a new or old one. But that's a setup I've never seen before.


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## Stephen Limbaugh

With the exception of piano work, the 61-key controller with some wheels/faders seems to be more easily manageable for libraries with heavy key switching than an 88. A drawback is having to create presets that put the ranges in the same octave to avoid flipping around with the controller's +/- octave keys -- always have been happy with it.

Side note, I cannot wait until I have 50 years (wow!) worth of experience making music with DAWs... I'm on 5 so far 🤪💩.


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## Alex Fraser

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> With the exception of piano work, the 61-key controller with some wheels/faders seems to be more easily manageable for libraries with heavy key switching than an 88. A drawback is having to create presets that put the ranges in the same octave to avoid flipping around with the controller's +/- octave keys -- always have been happy with it.
> 
> Side note, I cannot wait until I have 50 years (wow!) worth of experience making music with DAWs... I'm on 5 so far 🤪💩.


I have a little Korg Nano Key that's used exclusively for switching. Every track/patch is setup so the available switches automatically map to it on midi ch2 via Logic art maps. I tried iPads etc, but sometimes less options is more helpful..


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## Stephen Limbaugh

Thundercat said:


> Beethoven did his best work with pencil, paper, and NO HEARING!
> 
> [...]
> 
> Look at JW with his pencil and paper too...



But as far as I can tell, there's still no good way to notate the insanity of things happening in Damage for those hybrid scores! 😂


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## Inventio

dcoscina said:


> Since orchestral composing is largely about independent lines, if you are putting things together in an old-school manner, most instruments do not have an 88 note range. Unless one needs real-time KS or is keyboard composing, 4 or 5 octaves is usually enough. Liszt used a 3 octave keyboard to compose... dude had no issues with his orchestral writing.. I''m seriously thinking of just moving down to a Arturia Keylab 49 or 61Mk2 when my Kurzweil dies.. and buy a Nord Grand just for composing on the old-fashioned way.


That's exactly how I felt and did. I am using an Arturia Keylab 49 mk2. Everything's within reach of my hands. And I am a classically-trained pianist


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## doctoremmet

Inventio said:


> That's exactly how I felt and did. I am using an Arturia Keylab 49 mk2. Everything's within reach of my hands. And I am a classically-trained pianist


Same. Coming from a K2500 and S80. Keylab and a little Roli Seaboard and Lightblock on the side. Works like a charm.


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## I like music

I have a composer friend who has written music for multiple AAA games (seriously good music, too!). For 15 years, he had _no_ keyboard. He literally figured everything out on the piano roll, rapidly.

Simplest setup you've ever seen.

Happy to see he finally bought one recently, for like $50.


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## CT

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> But as far as I can tell, there's still no good way to notate the insanity of things happening in Damage for those hybrid scores! 😂


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## Stephen Limbaugh

Mike T said:


> View attachment 48202


Haha yes but the fliter sweep ring mod pitch stuff needs some george crumb style notation 😅


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## Stephen Limbaugh

Alex Fraser said:


> I have a little Korg Nano Key that's used exclusively for switching.


Btw, this honestly makes a lot of sense. My system probably is convoluted as hell in most eyes, but my key switches are arranged based off the old VSL VI player, where the up/down of the matrix was navigated by black keys and white keys moved the cursor left and right. I basically memorized common intervals (minor 6th, 5ths, etc) to land on certain articulations. In the Synchron Player, because of the tree structure, it is often hitting chords. A Dmaj7/F# triggers autospeed Detaches. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Does Silvestri share any mockups like John Powell does anywhere? A glance at how detailed he is before recording with live players would be welcome.


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## cet34f

Does anyone know what keyboard is on the left side? It looks very thin and could be something I am looking for.

I am not talking about the Nektar one on the right side.


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## gcorcella

ALittleNightMusic said:


> One of the reasons I had to go back to Cubase for now. Hopefully Studio One can address that soon.
> 
> 
> Track archives are XML files (not CPR files), but you are on the right track that they save things like routing and instruments (which would then allow him to connect / spin up the appropriate VEP instance). One thing that track archives currently don't save for whatever reason is expression maps.


In Cubase 12 when you import tracks archives the expression maps are imported too, even on brand new empty projects. Not sure about previous version, I'm just considering starting using track archives now as my template has become very huge lately which makes it a bit annoying to navigate into the project.

What I don't understand is: from the video it seems like he set VE Pro with one instance per saved track archive. And also it seems that when he imports the track archive the corresponding instance is created inside VE Pro. Am I wrong? If I'm right, how can he do that? Cubase doesn't seem to save as track archive information about the rack instrument the MIDI tracks are connected to, even if you select the output tracks before saving them as track archives.


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## resonate

gcorcella said:


> What I don't understand is: from the video it seems like he set VE Pro with one instance per saved track archive. And also it seems that when he imports the track archive the corresponding instance is created inside VE Pro. Am I wrong? If I'm right, how can he do that? Cubase doesn't seem to save as track archive information about the rack instrument the MIDI tracks are connected to, even if you select the output tracks before saving them as track archives.


Cubase 11 also imports Expression maps with Track Archives. 
Also, he uses VEP as Track Instrument, not Rack instrument. That works with Track Archives well.


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## gcorcella

Yeah, I figured it out earlier this morning after some tests lol
Although VSL recommends to use VE Pro as a rack instrument as far as I recall


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## marclawsonmusic

gcorcella said:


> What I don't understand is: from the video it seems like he set VE Pro with one instance per saved track archive. And also it seems that when he imports the track archive the corresponding instance is created inside VE Pro. Am I wrong? If I'm right, how can he do that? Cubase doesn't seem to save as track archive information about the rack instrument the MIDI tracks are connected to, even if you select the output tracks before saving them as track archives.


I am in the process of setting up this exact thing. The key is that VEPro is not being used in the traditional 'decoupled' way, so the contents of the VEPro instance are saved with the track archive.

Steps I am using for this:

Start VEPro server and create a new, empty instance
Name the instance and fill it with whatever multis you like - e.g. 'Damage' (like in the demo)
In Cubase, create an instrument track with VEPro VST plugin
Connect to the VEPro server, and choose 'Preserve' *but leave 'Decouple' off*
Create MIDI tracks as needed
Export all tracks as a track archive
When you recall the track archive into a new project, ensure that the VEPro server is empty and it will create a new instance and fill it with your instruments from step 2 above.

The cool thing about this approach is it allows you to build a unique palette per project, rather than be stuck with a fixed template. And, once you've built your palette, you could conceivably switch over to decoupled at a later time. Pretty cool.


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## cedricm

Markrs said:


> Noticed Alan is using a Nektar P6 Panorama keyboard, which has never had much love. I have Nektar T4 which is okay but, I never really took to it that much.


He clearly has a 88-keyboard on his left though.


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## cedricm

marclawsonmusic said:


> I am in the process of setting up this exact thing. The key is that VEPro is not being used in the traditional 'decoupled' way, so the contents of the VEPro instance are saved with the track archive.
> 
> Steps I am using for this:
> 
> Start VEPro server and create a new, empty instance
> Name the instance and fill it with whatever multis you like - e.g. 'Damage' (like in the demo)
> In Cubase, create an instrument track with VEPro VST plugin
> Connect to the VEPro server, and choose 'Preserve' *but leave 'Decouple' off*
> Create MIDI tracks as needed
> Export all tracks as a track archive
> When you recall the track archive into a new project, ensure that the VEPro server is empty and it will create a new instance and fill it with your instruments from step 2 above.
> 
> The cool thing about this approach is it allows you to build a unique palette per project, rather than be stuck with a fixed template. And, once you've built your palette, you could conceivably switch over to decoupled at a later time. Pretty cool.


One of the reason to use VEP is that if you're working on multiple cues/pieces that mostly use the same instruments, they're loaded once and when you switch cues there's no time wasted reloading all the samples in the DAW.
But does it still work with this way of working? Or will the VEP instance close automatically when you close the composition in the DAW, in the same way the VEP instance started automatically when importing the track archive?


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## cet34f

cedricm said:


> He clearly has a 88-keyboard on his left though.


I've been searching for a thin and lightweight 88-key MIDI keyboard for a long time and came to a conclusion that he was not using one of them. It must be a digital piano. It's not Keystation 88, GXP 88, Roland A88 or Alesis 88.


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## marclawsonmusic

cedricm said:


> One of the reason to use VEP is that if you're working on multiple cues/pieces that mostly use the same instruments, they're loaded once and when you switch cues there's no time wasted reloading all the samples in the DAW.
> But does it still work with this way of working? Or will the VEP instance close automatically when you close the composition in the DAW, in the same way the VEP instance started automatically when importing the track archive?


No - what you describe is working with VEP in 'decoupled' mode. The samples / instances stay loaded all the time. 

My thinking was more along the lines of...

Build a palette by loading various track archives. Then, you can save the metaframe (server project) on the VEPro server, switch on 'decoupled' in Cubase, and bam - you just built a custom template for your project.

I guess I am trying to solve the problem of having a massive template when I only need a handful of instruments. Track archives seem like a good way to kickstart building a palette without loading a full template. And you can always switch to 'decoupled' later. 🤷‍♂️


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## [email protected]

marclawsonmusic said:


> I am in the process of setting up this exact thing. The key is that VEPro is not being used in the traditional 'decoupled' way, so the contents of the VEPro instance are saved with the track archive.
> 
> Steps I am using for this:
> 
> Start VEPro server and create a new, empty instance
> Name the instance and fill it with whatever multis you like - e.g. 'Damage' (like in the demo)
> In Cubase, create an instrument track with VEPro VST plugin
> Connect to the VEPro server, and choose 'Preserve' *but leave 'Decouple' off*
> Create MIDI tracks as needed
> Export all tracks as a track archive
> When you recall the track archive into a new project, ensure that the VEPro server is empty and it will create a new instance and fill it with your instruments from step 2 above.
> 
> The cool thing about this approach is it allows you to build a unique palette per project, rather than be stuck with a fixed template. And, once you've built your palette, you could conceivably switch over to decoupled at a later time. Pretty cool.


@marclawsonmusic Thank you very much for your explanation! I have experimented around with this modular approach in the last days and there are some things I still can't figure out. Maybe you or the others here have an idea?

My main question is: How do I get Cubase to save the different outputs? Bucase only seems to save the MIDI-channels in the Track archive but not the outpouts from VEPro.

For example:
_Talos_ from _Audio Imperia_ has 2 instruments:
- Horns à12
- Low Brass

In Cubase I now create:
- 1 MIDI channel for _Horns à12_ (with expression map)
- 1 MIDI channel for _Low Brass_ (with expression map)

as well as to separate ouputs:
- out 1/2 for _Horns à12_
- out 3/4 for _Low Brass_

Now I encounter 2 problems:

1. When I open VePro in Cubase as a "Tack Instrument" I can't create any output channels (or did I miss something?)
2. When I open VePro as a "Track Instrument" I can create the outputs, but when I save it as a track archive the outputs aren't saved and it seems that I "lost" the VePro connection.

So how did Alan Silvestri make sure that all his mixer presets and outputs are saved as well?

By the way: These are my VePro settings:


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## marclawsonmusic

[email protected] said:


> @marclawsonmusic Thank you very much for your explanation! I have experimented around with this modular approach in the last days and there are some things I still can't figure out. Maybe you or the others here have an idea?


I am sorry but I am using only a single stereo return from each VEPro instance / track archive.

However, it should only be a matter of 'activating outputs' in Cubase once you load the track stack. I can try to test this later in my studio.

Otherwise, this approach is working great for me.


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## [email protected]

Thank you for the quick reply! Yes, I could "just" activate the outputs but since I like to have 1 output _per instrument_ I sometimes have more than 40 outputs for one library (like the complete _Berlin Brass _etc.) To not loose orientation I need to name them and I would like to avoid having to rename 100+ outputs in case I create a new modular template with several libraries.


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## marclawsonmusic

I setup a multi-out VEPro instance and everything saved and was recalled successfully in Cubase for me.

Steps I took...

In VEPro, set each instrument channel to its own output (I had 6 outputs for Cinematic Studio Strings - one per instrument: V1, V2, Va, Vc, Cb and Ensemble).
In Cubase - on the Instrument Track - use 'activate outputs' to add outputs for those additional 5 stereo pairs. This created 5 new channels in my mix console - for a total of 6 channels for CSS.
Save the MIDI and Instrument tracks as a track archive.
Close VEPro and Cubase, restart both, load the track archive - voila... VEPro has the multi-out setup, and Cubase had the additional 5 channels in mix console (total of 6).
So for me, I had no issues saving and recalling a multi-out VEPro instance in Cubase using track archives.

Here is the track archive in case you have Cinematic Studio Strings and want to try for yourself:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lg9u4gkw3mo5wd4/VEP%20CSS%20multi-out.xml?dl=0


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## marclawsonmusic

[email protected] said:


> Thank you for the quick reply! Yes, I could "just" activate the outputs but since I like to have 1 output _per instrument_ I sometimes have more than 40 outputs for one library (like the complete _Berlin Brass _etc.) To not loose orientation I need to name them and I would like to avoid having to rename 100+ outputs in case I create a new modular template with several libraries.


PS - As a side note, you should consider the performance impact of having so many stereo pairs returning from VEPro. The more stereo pairs, the greater CPU burden on your DAW/VEP setup. It is best to use as few stereo returns as possible.


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## [email protected]

marclawsonmusic said:


> I setup a multi-out VEPro instance and everything saved and was recalled successfully in Cubase for me.
> 
> Steps I took...
> 
> In VEPro, set each instrument channel to its own output (I had 6 outputs for Cinematic Studio Strings - one per instrument: V1, V2, Va, Vc, Cb and Ensemble).
> In Cubase - on the Instrument Track - use 'activate outputs' to add outputs for those additional 5 stereo pairs. This created 5 new channels in my mix console - for a total of 6 channels for CSS.
> Save the MIDI and Instrument tracks as a track archive.
> Close VEPro and Cubase, restart both, load the track archive - voila... VEPro has the multi-out setup, and Cubase had the additional 5 channels in mix console (total of 6).
> So for me, I had no issues saving and recalling a multi-out VEPro instance in Cubase using track archives.
> 
> Here is the track archive in case you have Cinematic Studio Strings and want to try for yourself:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lg9u4gkw3mo5wd4/VEP%20CSS%20multi-out.xml?dl=0


Wow! Thank you very much! May I ask with which Cubase version you created this track archive? I can't open it with Cubase 10.


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## marclawsonmusic

[email protected] said:


> Wow! Thank you very much! May I ask with which Cubase version you created this track archive? I can't open it with Cubase 10.


Yes. I am on Cubase 11. I think I can save it as 'compatible with older versions'. Let me check.


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## marclawsonmusic

[email protected] said:


> Wow! Thank you very much! May I ask with which Cubase version you created this track archive? I can't open it with Cubase 10.


Try this... should be Cubase 10 compatible.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/683yx8ldu6coytr/VEP%20CSS%20multi-out%20C10.xml?dl=0


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## [email protected]

@marclawsonmusic First I really want to thank you for all your help! I now managed to open it but what#s really weird is that the outputs seem to be activated but they don't show up in my outputs-folder in Cubase...🤔


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## ChrisHarrison

What the point of using vsl if you’re not offloading the sample ram? 

I guess the idea is you can use track versions, load up a template as you go with what you need for the project, then “decouple” at that point, and just write for the little ensemble you made using track versions. 

He said it saves mixer settings etc, but wouldn’t this just eliminate the mixer in cubase by using Vsl? Or do all the tracks come into their own stereo returns? 

Just seems so complicated to me. I just really mastered my disabled tracks template all internal. It works fine, no reason to change yet, but I haven’t been faced with a project with multiple reels yet. 

Does anyone work all internal, disabled tracks, and multiple reels all in cubase? Does the program not like having, say, 45 minutes of film and audio/midi in cubase? 

People seems to like the video sync option, offloading video. 

I saw someone else using nuendo to put together the whole film, and cubase to make the reels. 

Man… I need to practice my diminished scale harmony and the tech is just a lot! I feel like I’m knee deep in it, and everyday there’s some new approach.


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## marclawsonmusic

[email protected] said:


> @marclawsonmusic First I really want to thank you for all your help! I now managed to open it but what#s really weird is that the outputs seem to be activated but they don't show up in my outputs-folder in Cubase...🤔


I have no idea why they don't show up in the Tracks area, but you will hear audio from them regardless. (I am new to Cubase myself)



christopherharriso said:


> What the point of using vsl if you’re not offloading the sample ram?
> 
> I guess the idea is you can use track versions, load up a template as you go with what you need for the project, then “decouple” at that point, and just write for the little ensemble you made using track versions.


It's not about offloading sample RAM, it's about offloading CPU. If your samples are in VEPro, the DAW is not handling that playback workload.

Yes, this allows you to build a palette using VEPro, and then you can decouple once you start working. Project file sizes are small (fast autosave) and you can put that VEPro server project in your project folder and recall everything without it having to be 'Template 2022'.


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## ChrisHarrison

marclawsonmusic said:


> I have no idea why they don't show up in the Tracks area, but you will hear audio from them regardless. (I am new to Cubase myself)
> 
> 
> It's not about offloading sample RAM, it's about offloading CPU. If your samples are in VEPro, the DAW is not handling that playback workload.
> 
> Yes, this allows you to build a palette using VEPro, and then you can decouple once you start working. Project file sizes are small (fast autosave) and you can put that VEPro server project in your project folder and recall everything without it having to be 'Template 2022'.


My template is called “template 2022” lol

I don’t notice cubase stressing too much, but maybe if I did a larger project with full orchestra. I’m still only doing shorts so far. I also have a 202 iMac with 128 GB ram and it really kicks ass.


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## [email protected]

@marclawsonmusic I still try to figure out what happened with the outputs on my side. I am really greatful for your support and even downloaded the Cubase 12 Trial Version but still no success. Will contact support again.


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## Emanuel Fróes

marclawsonmusic said:


> No - what you describe is working with VEP in 'decoupled' mode. The samples / instances stay loaded all the time.
> 
> My thinking was more along the lines of...
> 
> Build a palette by loading various track archives. Then, you can save the metaframe (server project) on the VEPro server, switch on 'decoupled' in Cubase, and bam - you just built a custom template for your project.
> 
> I guess I am trying to solve the problem of having a massive template when I only need a handful of instruments. Track archives seem like a good way to kickstart building a palette without loading a full template. And you can always switch to 'decoupled' later. 🤷‍♂️


I also prefer this, what i call "modular" aproach (template blocks) . In Logic i can just save the input instrument (any instance) as patch. So I wonder if this is already enough and more reliable? 

I guess i am having some bugs due to not having clear when to save on VEP, when to decouple, etc. In doubt, i guess it is safe to save all in Logic as template, at least in the beginning when experimenting with VEP

I can save some server projects as instances names, or save a whole instance as a channel set (using a folder track).

While all these features are awesome, I have to say: what a confusion to keep all linked as template and unlinked as project file!


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## johncdl

dcoscina said:


> Too many gadgets and I find I get hung up on the tech and not the music itself.


This. Keyboard Maestro, Lemur, and Open Stage Control kinda ruined everything for me.


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## johncdl

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> I noticed a similar track-naming convention in Powell’s screen capture of his template - any chance that these two composers are using a template setup by someone else?


Most Hollywood composers have a "team" that get them their outboard gear, set up their template, wire their studio, etc. @synthetic does Lemur setups. I'm curious to know if he made one for Christophe Beck! I think @jononotbono mentioned in a video that some people hire him to design Cubase templates or Open Stage Control templates or somethin.


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## johncdl

rpaillot said:


> Ahah !
> Nerd alert..
> 
> I also spotted "abbey road orchestral samples" in his kontakt folder architecture...  and this is not spitfire obviously as abbey road uses a private player.


Maybe custom? I mean he did record Avengers: Endgame at Abbey Road...


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## johncdl

I like music said:


> I have a composer friend who has written music for multiple AAA games (seriously good music, too!). For 15 years, he had _no_ keyboard. He literally figured everything out on the piano roll, rapidly.
> 
> Simplest setup you've ever seen.
> 
> Happy to see he finally bought one recently, for like $50.


Damn. Nowadays I hit the R key and just hit one molto staccatissisisisisimo note on the keyboard. Just one. I quickly stop recording and create everything else in the piano roll editor. Can work faster if the project tempo is like 70 BPM . Oh well. OCD.

I also don't even use a MIDI keyboard. I use a Yamaha Piaggero 76-key... digital stage piano? I've had it for 9 years. I feel like I should give it a proper name. Suggestions anyone?


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## AudioXpression

Excellent!
Impressive simplicity.
Thank you very much for sharing this material, which is a real MASTERCLASS!


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## José Herring

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I'm assuming that given it was for NI, he was going to showcase the NI / Kontakt instruments. You can get some sneak peaks at some of the other stuff he has though. Plus, since he's writing for the Avengers, probably can use those Damage drums!
> 
> Here's a screenshot of his track archive presets for example - lot of EWHO in there (do you think he's preordered Opus ):


Yep. And I just saw a video where the person said that they/them have never seen a professional studio that uses East/West and all the company's endorsements where marketing hype. I'm like FFS. Even the guy that made HO is a professional working very successful trailer/library composer.

I personally love everything about Silverstri and even in the Play version HO kicked ass. In the OPUS version it's kicking ass even harder.


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## synthetic

johncdl said:


> @synthetic does Lemur setups. I'm curious to know if he made one for Christophe Beck! I think


No I did not work for him. I liked Buffy though. Lemur is abandonware so I suggest looking for another solution.


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## creativeforge

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Great to hear his stories and insights into the composing process




Very interesting, thanks!


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