# Real or fake?



## Maxfabian (Apr 11, 2017)

I just made a little jazzimprovisation and I only used virtual instruments. 
Ravenscroft 275, Vienna Jazz drums and Trilian`s upright. 
Do you think it sounds fake? And do you like what you hear?

Cheers


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## rottoy (Apr 11, 2017)

Maxfabian said:


> I just made a little jazzimprovisation and I only used virtual instruments.
> Ravenscroft 275, Vienna Jazz drums and Trilian`s upright.
> Do you think it sounds fake? And do you like what you hear?
> 
> Cheers



I think that's a splendid mix, man! (And some terrific playing.)
Would fool the average listener IMO.


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## rvb (Apr 11, 2017)

Woow!! The drums are so cool!


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## Nils Neumann (Apr 11, 2017)

Maxfabian said:


> Do you think it sounds fake? And do you like what you hear?



99% of the world population would not know the difference, and yes I like it very much!


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## Franco (Apr 11, 2017)

Do you think it sounds fake? Absolutely not! 
And do you like what you hear? A lot!


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## airflamesred (Apr 11, 2017)

Very real, and full marks on the drums.


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## dcoscina (Apr 11, 2017)

Wonderful track. Love the chords!


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## jon wayne (Apr 11, 2017)

It's only fake if you used a fake book! Great playing and programming....and mixing. What verb and mic setting did you use on Ravenscroft?


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## Maxfabian (Apr 11, 2017)

Thanks for listening everyone and thanks for your kind comments


jon wayne said:


> What verb and mic setting did you use on Ravenscroft?


I used altiverb so I didn't used any of the Ravenscroft reverb. The mic settings I usually have for this kind of setup is 100% side and room mic, no player mic and 60% close mic.

Cheers!


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## Flaneurette (Apr 11, 2017)

Makes me want to snap my fingers and tap my feet...


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## resound (Apr 11, 2017)

Very convincing! I love the changes.

I think the one thing that could make it even more convincing is more "interaction" from your drummer. You have some tasty fills in there, but a great jazz drummer would be a lot more active, filling in gaps, being conversational with the piano.


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## byzantium (Apr 11, 2017)

Beautiful job. Love it. Wonderful sound. Super playing. Your timing and feel are superb. Not rushed. Great balance between left and right hand.


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## LamaRose (Apr 11, 2017)

Don't buy the musician-hype as this would fool most musicians if heard in a neutral setting. Excellent all-around, mi amigo. Drums are fine, imho, as the best session players stay in the pocket which usually equates to less is more.


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## Norbz (Apr 11, 2017)

Well played sir .

Tapping my foot thinking about being in an elevator with a hottie.


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## NoamL (Apr 11, 2017)

Sounds really good, especially the composition. If I had to pick one element to criticize it would the bass as it feels a little too pure/flawless in sound; every pizzicato is the same intensity and I don't truly hear the player moving from note A to B. It's only a minor thing but it would feel more realistic if there were a few string slides or a few extra "twangy" pizzicatos occasionally.


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## mc_deli (Apr 11, 2017)

Wow. Really nice. Agreed that 99.9% of people would have no idea this is fake. For me some of the piano left hand could have some more variation in the timing and dynamics note vs note. Biggest thing would be the drums start to feel very looped in the second half. Some break downs and snare variation would be nice. Really interesting this because with some drum fills, a few rushed tempo maps at the ends of sections and a few "mistakes" in the piano timing it would basically be real!


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## Steve Martin (Apr 11, 2017)

Maxfabian said:


> Thanks for listening everyone and thanks for your kind comments
> 
> I used altiverb so I didn't used any of the Ravenscroft reverb. The mic settings I usually have for this kind of setup is 100% side and room mic, no player mic and 60% close mic.
> 
> Cheers!


Sounds great! Was the Alitiverb version 6 or 7? Thanks  I like the piano sounds very much and your playing is beautifully musical and clear. Thanks for sharing  Very, very impressive I have to say!


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## Saxer (Apr 11, 2017)

Beautiful music! The piano sounds absolute organic and really tasty. The drums sound good too but musically they act like a foreign object. A jazz drummer has to listen and do comments and dynamic changes. The sample drummer plays time as if the bass would walk in four but he doesn't before min 2:00 for a few bars. Should be a more broken beat, half time sweeping, or open cymbal grooves and follow the bass accents. And much more variations.


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## NoamL (Apr 11, 2017)

Saxer said:


> The sample drummer plays time as if the bass would walk in four but he doesn't



Didn't notice this until you mentioned it but now it really pops out!


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## Maxfabian (Apr 12, 2017)

Steve Martin said:


> Sounds great! Was the Alitiverb version 6 or 7? Thanks  I like the piano sounds very much and your playing is beautifully musical and clear. Thanks for sharing  Very, very impressive I have to say!



It is Altiverb 7. Glad you liked the music 

Cheers!


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## Maxfabian (Apr 12, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> Wow. Really nice. Agreed that 99.9% of people would have no idea this is fake. For me some of the piano left hand could have some more variation in the timing and dynamics note vs note. Biggest thing would be the drums start to feel very looped in the second half. Some break downs and snare variation would be nice. Really interesting this because with some drum fills, a few rushed tempo maps at the ends of sections and a few "mistakes" in the piano timing it would basically be real!



Thanks for listening! Your absolutely right, I could definitely improv some of the things you mention. I will make another track and I will have those things in mind. My piano playing is actually real, I haven't quantized it anything. So I don't think I can get it moor "alive". But i could definitely improv the drums and bas. 

Cheers


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## Tatu (Apr 12, 2017)

With very little interest in easy-smooth jazz and hence with very little listening experience at said music, I'd say real.


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## Maxfabian (Apr 12, 2017)

Saxer said:


> Beautiful music! The piano sounds absolute organic and really tasty. The drums sound good too but musically they act like a foreign object. A jazz drummer has to listen and do comments and dynamic changes. The sample drummer plays time as if the bass would walk in four but he doesn't before min 2:00 for a few bars. Should be a more broken beat, half time sweeping, or open cymbal grooves and follow the bass accents. And much more variations.



Thanks for listening. I totally agree about the drums! I definitely have to improve them. Glad you liked the music

Cheers


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## mc_deli (Apr 12, 2017)

Maxfabian said:


> Thanks for listening! Your absolutely right, I could definitely improv some of the things you mention. I will make another track and I will have those things in mind. My piano playing is actually real, I haven't quantized it anything. So I don't think I can get it moor "alive". But i could definitely improv the drums and bas.
> 
> Cheers


Your piano playing is too real - hyper real - you need a name for this fake jazz...

Fazz!


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## Maxfabian (Apr 12, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> Your piano playing is too real - hyper real - you need a name for this fake jazz...
> 
> Fazz!



Haha!!


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## jaketanner (Apr 12, 2017)

I am a professional mix engineer and classical pianist/keyboardist as well...listening with headphones...yes, it sounds VI to me. However, the performance is very good, and the sounds you chose are good as well. Perhaps a bit stiff overall, but like many have said, if you want to fool the average listener, I am sure you won't have any issues.

Here are my reasons it doesn't sound "real", to me...piano is TOO clean and defined. Yes, piano is too clean, a real live acoustic micd piano would sound a bit dirtier and more noise from pedal board, and such. The drums are nice, but no live drummer would sustain the groove without so much as a little variance here and there, or tom hit...and the bass needs to be fatter, with more fret, finger noise. Back to the drums, they are too pan specific...which says, sample. A live OH drum mic, or single mono mic for the jazz recording, would sound different. Needs more space...set further back maybe? Sorry for being very specific, but you asked. I am only commenting to help, and if I were to ask for opinions, I would expect no less from you guys...love this forum. Best of luck.


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## Maxfabian (Apr 12, 2017)

jaketanner said:


> I am a professional mix engineer and classical pianist/keyboardist as well...listening with headphones...yes, it sounds VI to me. However, the performance is very good, and the sounds you chose are good as well. Perhaps a bit stiff overall, but like many have said, if you want to fool the average listener, I am sure you won't have any issues.
> 
> Here are my reasons it doesn't sound "real", to me...piano is TOO clean and defined. Yes, piano is too clean, a real live acoustic micd piano would sound a bit dirtier and more noise from pedal board, and such. The drums are nice, but no live drummer would sustain the groove without so much as a little variance here and there, or tom hit...and the bass needs to be fatter, with more fret, finger noise. Back to the drums, they are too pan specific...which says, sample. A live OH drum mic, or single mono mic for the jazz recording, would sound different. Needs more space...set further back maybe? Sorry for being very specific, but you asked. I am only commenting to help, and if I were to ask for opinions, I would expect no less from you guys...love this forum. Best of luck.



Thanks for taking the time and answering me so specific. I appreciate it a lot!
I am absolutely aware of that you can tell this is VI instruments. But its fun how close you can get now a days, and of course you can get far more closer than I have done here. I will have your thoughts in my mind for the next piece I make. Thanks again

Cheers!


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## Phryq (Apr 12, 2017)

I love that piano sound. I'd add a couple more 'accented' notes in the piano, and some more quiet 'ghostish' notes.

Also, more variation in the drums. They start to get boring after some time (though I *love* the piano part).

 jaketanner , nice advice. I would like that kind of feedback on my music as well... so specific.


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## ryans (Apr 12, 2017)

Enjoyed your lines.. nice groove 

Ryan


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## Maxfabian (Apr 12, 2017)

Phryq said:


> I love that piano sound. I'd add a couple more 'accented' notes in the piano, and some more quiet 'ghostish' notes.
> 
> Also, more variation in the drums. They start to get boring after some time (though I *love* the piano part).
> 
> jaketanner , nice advice. I would like that kind of feedback on my music as well... so specific.



Glad you liked the piano sound! I absolutely agree about the drums. When I do my next track I will have that in mind.
Thanks for listening

Cheers


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## jaketanner (Apr 13, 2017)

Maxfabian said:


> Thanks for taking the time and answering me so specific. I appreciate it a lot!
> I am absolutely aware of that you can tell this is VI instruments. But its fun how close you can get now a days, and of course you can get far more closer than I have done here. I will have your thoughts in my mind for the next piece I make. Thanks again
> 
> Cheers!



Technology has come a very long way. Sometimes, it's the execution in the sound and mixing that can add that little bit of realism.. . Glad I was able to help, and I felt guilty because I thought it mat have been a bit harsh...glad it wasn't. BTW, another suggestion...there are many analog tape emulations on the market...they do add a bit of warmth, and take the edge off of the digital sound...they help me quite a bit.


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## Maxfabian (Apr 13, 2017)

jaketanner said:


> Technology has come a very long way. Sometimes, it's the execution in the sound and mixing that can add that little bit of realism.. . Glad I was able to help, and I felt guilty because I thought it mat have been a bit harsh...glad it wasn't. BTW, another suggestion...there are many analog tape emulations on the market...they do add a bit of warmth, and take the edge off of the digital sound...they help me quite a bit.



That is an excellent advise! You wasn't harsh at all, I am here to learn so i can only be grateful for those who take their time and give me some tips and trix! 

Cheers and happy easter


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## jaketanner (Apr 13, 2017)

Maxfabian said:


> That is an excellent advise! You wasn't harsh at all, I am here to learn so i can only be grateful for those who take their time and give me some tips and trix!
> 
> Cheers and happy easter


Same to you. I will be posting here as well, once I get my new controller, so feel free to comment. We are all here to pick each other's brains...lol, no matter how experienced we are, there's always more to learn.


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## Maxfabian (May 23, 2017)

ryans said:


> Enjoyed your lines.. nice groove
> 
> Ryan


Thanks Ryan! Glad u liked it


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## Vin (May 23, 2017)

Really nice composition, enjoyed it.



jaketanner said:


> BTW, another suggestion...there are many analog tape emulations on the market...they do add a bit of warmth, and take the edge off of the digital sound...they help me quite a bit.



Yes - and would love to hear it done with _Piano in Blue _which has tape samples and excels in this type of writing. But Ravenscroft sounds great here as well


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## Fab (May 23, 2017)

That was fun to listen to. I also think because it's piano focused, with lots of movement, it holds the spotlight nicely enough that the any giveaways in realism from the other instruments is smaller. Some of the piano tweaks like pedal noises and a muffled/dirtier sound would be good stylistically. 

One thing I think would be cool to think about if you do something similar would be to play around with timing even more as the piece goes on, it is like getting realism for free and it's appropriate to the style/interesting.


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## Kaan Guner (May 23, 2017)

Splendid improvisation on piano. But the other parts need more attention for sure. That being misssing both undermines the piano's parts' value and the overall realism. But this level of quality audio is beyond realism for me. Meaning I can enjoy it as a jazz trio piece. So it's good to go.

Which makes me say I did enjoy your improvisation. North really have some nice trios. Check out Espen Eriksen and his Passing By if you haven't. Amazing piano in that one.


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## Phryq (May 23, 2017)

I wonder if it would be possible to make Embertone Bass sound like that.


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## AdamAlake (May 23, 2017)

Incredible, what did you use for the brush playing?


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## Maxfabian (May 23, 2017)

Vin said:


> Really nice composition, enjoyed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes - and would love to hear it done with _Piano in Blue _which has tape samples and excels in this type of writing. But Ravenscroft sounds great here as well


Thanks for listening Vin! Glad u liked it I haven't tried "Piano in blue" but u can't have to many piano libraries Maybe i should check it out. Cheers!


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## Maxfabian (May 23, 2017)

Phryq said:


> I wonder if it would be possible to make Embertone Bass sound like that.


I haven't tried the Embertone Bass, so can't tell. But I am pretty pleased with the Trillian Acoustic Bass. Cheers


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## Maxfabian (May 23, 2017)

AdamAlake said:


> Incredible, what did you use for the brush playing?


Thanks mate!! I used the VSL Jazz Drums


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## AdamAlake (May 23, 2017)

Maxfabian said:


> Thanks mate!! I used the VSL Jazz Drums



Ah, VSl, one day I will be able to afford their instruments.


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## lumcas (May 23, 2017)

AdamAlake said:


> Ah, VSl, one day I will be able to afford their instruments.



Well, unlike their many other sample packs, VSL Jazz Drums library is not particularly expensive:

https://www.jrrshop.com/vienna-symphonic-library-vienna-jazz-drums-standard


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## Maxfabian (May 24, 2017)

Fab said:


> That was fun to listen to. I also think because it's piano focused, with lots of movement, it holds the spotlight nicely enough that the any giveaways in realism from the other instruments is smaller. Some of the piano tweaks like pedal noises and a muffled/dirtier sound would be good stylistically.
> 
> One thing I think would be cool to think about if you do something similar would be to play around with timing even more as the piece goes on, it is like getting realism for free and it's appropriate to the style/interesting.


I totally agree about what you say Fab. Next track I will spend moor time to get some deeper interacktion between the different instruments and adjusting the tempo variations. Thanks for listening and it glads me u liked it 
Cheers!


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## Maxfabian (May 24, 2017)

Kaan Guner said:


> Splendid improvisation on piano. But the other parts need more attention for sure. That being misssing both undermines the piano's parts' value and the overall realism. But this level of quality audio is beyond realism for me. Meaning I can enjoy it as a jazz trio piece. So it's good to go.
> 
> Which makes me say I did enjoy your improvisation. North really have some nice trios. Check out Espen Eriksen and his Passing By if you haven't. Amazing piano in that one.



Thanks for listening Kaan and glad u liked the improv! I totally agree with u, I have to work moor with that bass and drum. In the next piece I definitely will.
I really liked the Espen Eriksson Trio!! Thanks for sharing. I will check out more of that trio!

Cheers and thanks for your feedback


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## artomatic (May 24, 2017)

Great VI track, great pianist!


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## Alatar (May 24, 2017)

Superbly played. But the piano sounds fake.
It sounds "too good". Like too round. In a real Jazz recording, you would not have that good and polished acoustics. I think.

And one other thing: The piano seems to be perfectly in tune. Its too much in tune, I would say. What engine is the Ravencroft using? On some engines (such as UVI Workstation) you can detune every note. Maybe you can try that - just very slightly.


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## Maxfabian (May 25, 2017)

artomatic said:


> Great VI track, great pianist!


Thanks a lot Artomatic! Glad u liked it Cheers


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## Phillip (May 26, 2017)

Great music, very tasteful and delicate. Please don't change the drums! Jazz is about individuality of expression. Do you want to play with a drummer who is "conversational" like every other drummer out there, or do you want to play with an individual who has his own style? Your drummer is great, he supports. Listen to Erroll Garner trio. Drummer swings and does minimal commentary. Jazz is what YOU make it, not somebody else. Stick with your style and develop it further. Internet forums would teach Lois Armstrong how to sing if you ever let them. All the best.


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## agarner32 (May 26, 2017)

Really great playing. I disagree with those who think the piano sounds fake or too much in tune. My only criticism is that there is no interaction between the drums and the rest of the trio. The playing is not how a seasoned jazz drummer would play. Most drummers would accent many of the rhythms of your left hand and play the phrases more. Still the drums do sound great and real. And I'm not sure I could do a better job with the drums since I'm a pianist. Anyway excellent work.

Aaron


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## Maxfabian (May 28, 2017)

Phillip said:


> Great music, very tasteful and delicate. Please don't change the drums! Jazz is about individuality of expression. Do you want to play with a drummer who is "conversational" like every other drummer out there, or do you want to play with an individual who has his own style? Your drummer is great, he supports. Listen to Erroll Garner trio. Drummer swings and does minimal commentary. Jazz is what YOU make it, not somebody else. Stick with your style and develop it further. Internet forums would teach Lois Armstrong how to sing if you ever let them. All the best.


Thanks Phillip! Happy to hear your thoughts on my music. You definitely have a point. Thanks for listening!

Cheers


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## jsaras (May 28, 2017)

Maxfabian said:


> I just made a little jazzimprovisation and I only used virtual instruments.
> Ravenscroft 275, Vienna Jazz drums and Trilian`s upright.
> Do you think it sounds fake? And do you like what you hear?
> 
> Cheers




It sounds very much the trio albums that Alan Broadbent has made over the years. The drums could be a little busier, or not. Sounds great as it is.


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## Maxfabian (May 28, 2017)

jsaras said:


> It sounds very much the trio albums that Alan Broadbent has made over the years. The drums could be a little busier, or not. Sounds great as it is.



Thanks for listening jsaras! I am not aware of Alan but I will definitely check him up 

Cheers!


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## Maxfabian (May 29, 2017)

agarner32 said:


> Really great playing. I disagree with those who think the piano sounds fake or too much in tune. My only criticism is that there is no interaction between the drums and the rest of the trio. The playing is not how a seasoned jazz drummer would play. Most drummers would accent many of the rhythms of your left hand and play the phrases more. Still the drums do sound great and real. And I'm not sure I could do a better job with the drums since I'm a pianist. Anyway excellent work.
> 
> Aaron



Thanks for listening Aaron! I appreciate your thoughts and can only agree Next track I make I think I will work a little bit more on the the drums.

Cheers


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