# ADHD medications that don't kill inspiration



## creativeforge (Jun 14, 2019)

So after 3 years of being off meds, I felt the need to explore this anew. I was prescribed Vyvanse, along with Escitalopram (Cipralex). It was 3 days of intense anxiety, flashing back to two cocaine near-ODs in the 1990s. *Ain't nobody got time for that!!*

I'm going back to the doc today, hoping to maybe go back to the old gals Adderall and Celexa. In two weeks, I'll visit another doctor to explore CBD oil for ADHD and anxiety. 

However, I also noticed during those medicated years, that my musical creativity was near zero. I could do some work, but mostly technical, editing, mixing, etc, but I didn't feel like I was able to "invent." I spent thousands on library and equipment, but that didn't translate. 

So I'm curious about others who are affected with ADHD, how do you deal with this, what kinds of meds have worked for you (Amphetamines vs Methylphenidate). And btw, I've been off dope and booze for over 20 years, so I don't think that comes in the equation.

Thanks in advance, if you prefer PM'ing to remain discrete about this, I'll totally understand! 

Cheers,

Andre


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 14, 2019)

Hey Andre, 
Hope you find a solution. I can’t give any personal experience, but I have a writer friend who literally doesn’t create when on medication. He only gets the drive when med free. 

It’s also something that doctors warn about here in the UK when prescribing anti depressants if you reley on creativity for a living. 

Maybe not an answer for you but maybe good to know. 
A


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## MatthewHarnage (Jun 14, 2019)

I don't know about that, but in my experience it doesn't affect my creativity at all. I've never done drugs or anything like that either so it probably affects me differently. I take a small dose of generic amphetamine salts once a day as prescribed by my doctor. I haven't noticed any loss of creativity to be honest. 

It only helps me to be more organized and less distracted. If anything I'm more creative because hearing noise outside or seeing my phone light up doesn't distract me nearly as much. Plus the whole executive function thing is improved. I feel like this might be a sort of mind thing vs the medicine. Unless you're taking like 30mg IR then I would be really surprised it kills your creativity.

I'd also recommend exercising, keeping a daily journal, creating a consequence and reward chart, mapping out goals (then assigning a consequence and reward to each goal), and in general being as healthy as possible. In my experience exercise is THE most helpful thing for ADHD outside of medicine. Do them both and you'll be kicking ass in no time. I'd also try to not let yourself think ADHD medicine inhibits your creativity, unless of course you're on a really high dose. Then it might be overpowering your brain too much.


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## gsilbers (Jun 14, 2019)

Getting off the chemicals is always a hassle.
I went for natural alternatives.

For anxiety

L-theanine
Macuna Dopa

For sleep 
Melatonin

Cbd made me feel sleepy and a slacker. 
Not wanting to do anything. There is a huge push for cbd due to the legalization and there is a huge amount of people trying to recoup a huge amount of invenstments and therefore pushing the bezeejuz out of it marketing wise to be wary of that snake oil sales culture. Doesn’t mean it’s not good for some people but what it seems it’s like the miracle drug you and everyone is missing when in fact , there barely any real research. 

Also,

I mention going natural. Not because it will replace something as advance as aderal or other high tech highly researched drugs. But because those who want to get off those drugs will have to change their minds and discipline and works towards getting mentally better without the chemicals drugs. It’s not easy. But a lot of people say for example that melatonin doesn’t affect them , while they ingest huge amounts of alcohol or anti depression drugs to sleep. The point is not getting melatonin to get you to sleep, it’s to give a placeholder, a small signal to the Brain to go to sleep and get used to that small signal, by getting used to it, and creating a routing around it. So basically changing your life to acomódate a life without chemicals. 

As for creativity. It’s an elusive thing for everyone with or without drugs. Cannabis, alcohol and coke always come to mind cuz it’s the mainstream stereotype. But it’s an ilusión. At the end it’s the same as I mentioned before. Try natural placeholders (soft placebo) that don’t do harm or do much and do the work to get inspired. Work the reasons why or why not it’s happening at a concious level. Try to think of the things that helped back in the day and also avoid distractions.


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## Desire Inspires (Jun 14, 2019)

You need to consult a medical professional. Probably consult a few medical professionals.


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## InLight-Tone (Jun 14, 2019)

Nature immersion, good diet, plenty of vigorous exercise (outdoors), no meds needed. I know it's the opposite of being a studio rat, but staying indoors all day is a recipe for depression...


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## MatthewHarnage (Jun 14, 2019)

InLight-Tone said:


> Nature immersion, good diet, plenty of vigorous exercise (outdoors), no meds needed. I know it's the opposite of being a studio rat, but staying indoors all day is a recipe for depression...




Medicines definitely aren't always needed for sure. But they help a lot of people, and if you have severe enough executive function issues you really do benefit from medicine over most other natural things. I wouldn't urge anyone on ADHD medicine who's been thoroughly diagnosed not to take their medicine. Frankly because the worse parts of ADHD aren't the ones people see, they are the long term effects of being impulsive and bad with time; for long periods of time.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 14, 2019)

This is kind of what has kept me from getting an official diagnosis of ADHD. I do okay, though I can't finish cleaning my house or even a room in my house without getting distracted. I find listening to music while I work keeps the ADHD part of my brain distracted enough to concentrate, if that makes sense. Music also acts as an anti depressant for me. I do have trouble finishing things and it seems to get worse as I've gotten older. Or maybe I just notice it more. 

I also find shutting down the blue screen things about an hour before bedtime helps a lot with sleep. So move to a real book or e-ink Kindle about an hour before bed. Or something like that. Otherwise my brain runs all night and I feel like I didn't get any sleep. Maybe some of these things will help you?


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## SchnookyPants (Jun 14, 2019)

Methylphenidate CD


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## gsilbers (Jun 14, 2019)

oh, i also tried nootropics. its all the rage in silicon valley but i didnt find them useful. not sure really what to think of them. but i do rememeber some folks forums posts about adhd.


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## creativeforge (Jun 14, 2019)

SchnookyPants said:


> Methylphenidate CD



Is that Concerta?


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## creativeforge (Jun 14, 2019)

MatthewHarnage said:


> I don't know about that, but in my experience it doesn't affect my creativity at all. I've never done drugs or anything like that either so it probably affects me differently. I take a small dose of generic amphetamine salts once a day as prescribed by my doctor. I haven't noticed any loss of creativity to be honest.
> 
> It only helps me to be more organized and less distracted. If anything I'm more creative because hearing noise outside or seeing my phone light up doesn't distract me nearly as much. Plus the whole executive function thing is improved. I feel like this might be a sort of mind thing vs the medicine. Unless you're taking like 30mg IR then I would be really surprised it kills your creativity.
> 
> I'd also recommend exercising, keeping a daily journal, creating a consequence and reward chart, mapping out goals (then assigning a consequence and reward to each goal), and in general being as healthy as possible. In my experience exercise is THE most helpful thing for ADHD outside of medicine. Do them both and you'll be kicking ass in no time. I'd also try to not let yourself think ADHD medicine inhibits your creativity, unless of course you're on a really high dose. Then it might be overpowering your brain too much.



Thanks for this. I used to be on Adderall XR 3 years ago (with Celexa), but after my divorce I stopped everything. I met my doctor today and hearing my experience with Vyvanse he suggested I start on Adderall again, 10mg, and see how it goes for a week or so. And he suggested not to start with an anti-depressant at the same time either, which is another mistake I made... 

Exercise is a big issue for me, but I try to do a bit every day on elliptical. I could walk more, I like "forest bathing" in the area. 

I also have essential oil, Lavender, which I can rub on my pressure points (wrists and neck) and that also seems to have a calming result. I'm not sure I'd like to go on an anti-depressant again, they tend to enhance depression for me, not pick me up. 

I have supplements I take daily, like L-Theanine, Rhodiola, Ginko, B12 sublingual and fish oil (almost exact DHA to EPA ratio).


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## creativeforge (Jun 14, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> Getting off the chemicals is always a hassle.
> I went for natural alternatives.
> 
> For anxiety
> ...



L-Theanine, check. Melatonin, check. I also use take probiotics before bed and it seems to help for a deeper sleep... when I don't go to bed around 3:00 am. [/QUOTE]



gsilbers said:


> Cbd made me feel sleepy and a slacker.
> Not wanting to do anything. There is a huge push for cbd due to the legalization and there is a huge amount of people trying to recoup a huge amount of invenstments and therefore pushing the bezeejuz out of it marketing wise to be wary of that snake oil sales culture. Doesn’t mean it’s not good for some people but what it seems it’s like the miracle drug you and everyone is missing when in fact , there barely any real research.



I will see what they say. Although I got a small bottle of CB2 oil today for topical use (from my regular health food store), and it seems to do something toward calm. I personally hate feeling stoned or drunk, to "feel" this in my system. So I'm not looking for THC content...



gsilbers said:


> Also, I mention going natural. Not because it will replace something as advance as aderal or other high tech highly researched drugs. But because those who want to get off those drugs will have to change their minds and discipline and works towards getting mentally better without the chemicals drugs. It’s not easy. But a lot of people say for example that melatonin doesn’t affect them , while they ingest huge amounts of alcohol or anti depression drugs to sleep. The point is not getting melatonin to get you to sleep, it’s to give a placeholder, a small signal to the Brain to go to sleep and get used to that small signal, by getting used to it, and creating a routing around it. So basically changing your life to acomódate a life without chemicals.



Good point, although the work to be mentally sharp is a daily challenge, even more so in times of high-stress. So I know medication or supplements are only there to help, but the real work is internal, breathing exercises, at least 8 hours sleep, very minimal processed foods and sugars, etc. I know what to do, not just good at sleep and exercise, but it's considered.



gsilbers said:


> As for creativity. It’s an elusive thing for everyone with or without drugs. Cannabis, alcohol and coke always come to mind cuz it’s the mainstream stereotype. But it’s an ilusión. At the end it’s the same as I mentioned before. Try natural placeholders (soft placebo) that don’t do harm or do much and do the work to get inspired. Work the reasons why or why not it’s happening at a concious level. Try to think of the things that helped back in the day and also avoid distractions.



It's possible my issue is not so much the medication but the source of my discomfort, self-doubts due to being around professionals and thinking - what's the use? So that cannot be helped with meds, but with addressing the lies and self-imposed barriers and limitations. 

Cheers!


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## creativeforge (Jun 14, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> oh, i also tried nootropics. its all the rage in silicon valley but i didnt find them useful. not sure really what to think of them. but i do rememeber some folks forums posts about adhd.



I did look into it for a while, but never made a move on it. The results people shared and their special blends were way too dispersed imho. I never got to a place of trusting this particular solution. They seem to be really popular in the gyms. What kind of stack did you come up with?


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## creativeforge (Jun 14, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> This is kind of what has kept me from getting an official diagnosis of ADHD. I do okay, though I can't finish cleaning my house or even a room in my house without getting distracted. I find listening to music while I work keeps the ADHD part of my brain distracted enough to concentrate, if that makes sense. Music also acts as an anti depressant for me. I do have trouble finishing things and it seems to get worse as I've gotten older. Or maybe I just notice it more.
> 
> I also find shutting down the blue screen things about an hour before bedtime helps a lot with sleep. So move to a real book or e-ink Kindle about an hour before bed. Or something like that. Otherwise my brain runs all night and I feel like I didn't get any sleep. Maybe some of these things will help you?



Thanks, indeed some helpful tips, some of which I already do, others on my to-do list (where is that list, btw, I seem to always misplace it...) .


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## WaveRider (Jun 14, 2019)

Daily amphetamine use will eventually wreak havoc on your heart, arteries and blood pressure. The best solution is to try and get off all meds. After 6 months, your body/brain will normalize and you may find you never needed the meds in the first place.


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## MatthewHarnage (Jun 14, 2019)

WaveRider said:


> Daily amphetamine use will eventually wreak havoc on your heart, arteries and blood pressure. The best solution is to try and get off all meds. After 6 months, your body/brain will normalize and you may find you never needed the meds in the first place.



There's no substantial evidence for that with therapeutic doses of ADHD medicine. With all due respect, stop sharing misinformation. 10-25 mg of adderall has never been shown to cause these issues. Maybe if someone is opening the capsules and snorting it, or taking WAY too much. All common medicine used for ADHD has been much further studied than it was in the 90s when everyone seems to have gotten their information. The only thing researchers think may happen is a reduced sensitivity to dopamine in the brain after long term use, and even that doesn't have substantial enough evidence to be a concern yet. Some people experience slightly higher BP when taking it, but this goes away when the medicine is out of your system. That's why if you have high BP already they won't prescribe you that class of stimulants. As far as I know there are no legit scientific studies showing higher overall BP, heart issues, or other longterm issues from taking prescribed ADHD medicine. My standard BP actually dropped when I first took my medicine, my body was calmer more often resulting in less stress overall. 

I've tried learned almost everything you can know about ADHD at this point, attended seminars, read tons of peer reviewed studies, and stay as up to date on research on it as possible.


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## MatthewHarnage (Jun 14, 2019)

creativeforge said:


> Thanks for this. I used to be on Adderall XR 3 years ago (with Celexa), but after my divorce I stopped everything. I met my doctor today and hearing my experience with Vyvanse he suggested I start on Adderall again, 10mg, and see how it goes for a week or so. And he suggested not to start with an anti-depressant at the same time either, which is another mistake I made...



Glad to help! Adderall 10mg XR is a good place to start. Its a super low dose and the XR is split in the system, so you really only have 5mg in your system at once. If it doesn't help or makes things worse, there are a ton of options now. I'd always suggest therapy at the same time too, just maybe once a month to help you not rely on the medicine too much (not saying you are, just speaking generally).

Also XR is great because its almost impossible to get physically addicted to. There is no high because of its long/sustained stream in the body. Don't listen to anyone who says not to take it if it helps you btw. Most people are SEVERLY under-educated about ADHD. If someone says ADD (and pretends to be smarter than doctors) run away, because that hasn't been a proper diagnostic tool in the DSM since 94.


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## WaveRider (Jun 14, 2019)

I can use myself as substantial evidence. I was on dexedrine for years and it totally f'd me up physically. It left me with high blood pressure and hardened arteries -- with a low daily dose. Here's some more misinformation:

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/adderall/side-effects

"Stimulants such as Adderall raise blood pressure, body temperature, and heart rate, keeping users awake and stimulated while suppressing appetites. Regular use or abuse of Adderall can make changes in the structures of the brain and change the way emotions are regulated. They can also be hard on the heart muscles, lungs, vascular system, and other internal organs."

Of course everyone is different, and some may not suffer adverse effects. I personally think it gets more dangerous the older you get, especially if you're adding alcohol and caffeine in to the mix.


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## MatthewHarnage (Jun 14, 2019)

WaveRider said:


> I can use myself as substantial evidence. I was on dexedrine for years and it totally f'd me up physically. It left me with high blood pressure and hardened arteries -- with a low daily dose. Here's some more misinformation:
> 
> https://americanaddictioncenters.org/adderall/side-effects
> 
> ...



This is from an addiction based site on abusing Adderall, not using a theraputic dose. The part before what you quoted puts that into context. There is a big difference between taking your prescribed amount and abusing it. This site/source isn't in relation to taking the medicine as instructed at a _proper _dose. Some people may take too much, but that's why you should always change medicine instead of bumping it up, that's also another reason most primary doctors can no longer prescribe it. Now only psychiatrist can (at least in my state), because they actively monitor you on it and shouldn't over-prescribe it. Once you get on a high enough dose you're getting into this territory. No studies related to taking theraputic doses support those claims. Most people seem to benefit from 10-30mg. Once you're above that I think its better to change medicines all together, but that's just my opinion.

I agree, all kinds of medicine get more dangerous the older you get. If you're taking ADHD medicine you shouldn't be ingesting caffeine at all. None. That's another way to make it hurt you long term, not taking it properly. It says on the instructions to avoid caffeine, why people ignore this I have no idea. That's asking for your heart to get wrecked.

Even if that happened to you, I'd be careful about blaming the medicine. There are a LOT of reasons you can have high blood pressure and hardened arteries, especially as you age. That stuff needs to be monitored more closely once you're past 40. Especially if you're a composer as well, its so easy to live a sedentary lifestyle in our profession. That combined with quick deadlines and stress will raise your BP so fast its insane.


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## InLight-Tone (Jun 14, 2019)

MatthewHarnage said:


> Medicines definitely aren't always needed for sure. But they help a lot of people, and if you have severe enough executive function issues you really do benefit from medicine over most other natural things. I wouldn't urge anyone on ADHD medicine who's been thoroughly diagnosed not to take their medicine. Frankly because the worse parts of ADHD aren't the ones people see, they are the long term effects of being impulsive and bad with time; for long periods of time.


Ya I get that, in emergency situations they have a purpose like surgery. I've always trie to do things naturally all my life and so far so good. Best of luck and health to you man...


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## MartinH. (Jun 15, 2019)

My best tip for falling asleep: 
breathe evenly and slowly (roughly between 4 and 6 breath cycles per minute), and count down from 30 backwards, one number between breaths: breathe in, breathe out, 30, breathe in, breathe out, 29, breathe in, breathe out, 28... etc.. I've reached 1 only _once_. Does wonders for me, and I've tried lots of things. 



creativeforge said:


> I have supplements I take daily, like L-Theanine, Rhodiola, Ginko, B12 sublingual and fish oil (almost exact DHA to EPA ratio).


Maybe have your vitamin-D levels checked. Western lifestyles often lead to a deficiency, everyone that I know who had their levels checked was very deficient and started supplementing. 



MatthewHarnage said:


> The only thing researchers think may happen is a reduced sensitivity to dopamine in the brain after long term use, and even that doesn't have substantial enough evidence to be a concern yet.


That sounds like it would be a pretty big deal if it's permanent though... 



MatthewHarnage said:


> I've tried learned almost everything you can know about ADHD at this point, attended seminars, read tons of peer reviewed studies, and stay as up to date on research on it as possible.


I think you're 100% on the right track there, no doctor has time to put that much effort into keeping up with just one issue. I thought I had seen a study about structural brain changes from ADHD medication but the first study that I just googled paints a slightly different picture: 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5082513/
Small samplesize though... 



creativeforge said:


> I met my doctor today and hearing my experience with Vyvanse he suggested I start on Adderall again, 10mg, and see how it goes for a week or so.


Did you read the patient information leaflet that comes with it (imho you should 100% read these for everything you get prescribed)? How long does it say it takes till initial side effects subside and positive effects engage? I haven't read any of these for ADHD meds yet, but for many many other neuro things it says 4 to 6 weeks before you even have a chance to get a positive effect. Side effects you can have from day 1, and not all of them will stay around, some will fade away over time.


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## Divico (Jun 15, 2019)

MatthewHarnage said:


> This is from an addiction based site on abusing Adderall, not using a theraputic dose. The part before what you quoted puts that into context. There is a big difference between taking your prescribed amount and abusing it. This site/source isn't in relation to taking the medicine as instructed at a _proper _dose. Some people may take too much, but that's why you should always change medicine instead of bumping it up, that's also another reason most primary doctors can no longer prescribe it. Now only psychiatrist can (at least in my state), because they actively monitor you on it and shouldn't over-prescribe it. Once you get on a high enough dose you're getting into this territory. No studies related to taking theraputic doses support those claims. Most people seem to benefit from 10-30mg. Once you're above that I think its better to change medicines all together, but that's just my opinion.
> 
> I agree, all kinds of medicine get more dangerous the older you get. If you're taking ADHD medicine you shouldn't be ingesting caffeine at all. None. That's another way to make it hurt you long term, not taking it properly. It says on the instructions to avoid caffeine, why people ignore this I have no idea. That's asking for your heart to get wrecked.
> 
> Even if that happened to you, I'd be careful about blaming the medicine. There are a LOT of reasons you can have high blood pressure and hardened arteries, especially as you age. That stuff needs to be monitored more closely once you're past 40. Especially if you're a composer as well, its so easy to live a sedentary lifestyle in our profession. That combined with quick deadlines and stress will raise your BP so fast its insane.


Right. Amphetmaine (stimulants in general) abuse cause a lot of casualties among young people - mostly strokes and heart attacks. Does this mean adderal shouldnt be taken. Well first of all as you mentioned, dosage is important. Recreational use is totally differetn than normal therapeutic. Second one is follow up. If you are on meds your doc should monitor this.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 15, 2019)

I don't necessarily agree with that. Most of my doctors recommend everything but drugs. Though I was told to take D and B12. I actually have less pain and more energy when I take them regularly. I tend to forget to take them - I really suck at remembering to take pills. Probably good I'm not on any real medication.


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## gsilbers (Jun 15, 2019)

creativeforge said:


> I did look into it for a while, but never made a move on it. The results people shared and their special blends were way too dispersed imho. I never got to a place of trusting this particular solution. They seem to be really popular in the gyms. What kind of stack did you come up with?



there was a lot of that indeed in the forums. i bought the main ones from racetams type of nootropics and tried them individually. but there is little to no effect. from piracetam to aniracetam it was hard to get a feeling for them. and not sure if it was a thing where you conciously dont feel it but its working or something but i gave up before jumping into stacking and other things. it felt more like what i think of CBD and the "craze" of it. snake oil thing. like people commenting in blind preamp shootouts and choosing neve only after they know its neve. placebo effect. at least with caffeine+L-theanine i could easily feel both the cofee and l-theanine.


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## gsilbers (Jun 15, 2019)

in general.. what i noticed in the US healthcare system... its that doctors really push drugs on patients. my wife went for a physical and saying she was a bit tired and the doctor gave her some anxiety type drug and antidepressants.... i forgot what brand and type but remember googling and seeing how addictive they are. people cannot just simply try them. its a whole life changing thing. i told her dont go for them... she got some sleep and that was it. 
same w my parents.. they where immigrants from argentina and in argentina its like 1 psychologist/therapist per 3 citizens so its ingrained in them that therapy, pychotherapy and those type of drugs for the head are extremely normal and everyone needs to go to that doctor all the time. later i realized it was not the case with my friends, collegues and the general population so i decided to not do do that stuff and i was fine. i was starting to feel like i was crazy or something wrong with me. anyway, i think there are of course a case for therapy and those type of drugs but i also think its a balance and sometimes i get the feeling that doctors find the easiest solution which is those drugs. people lives are fine with it so they move on. get paid by the patient and get paid byt the drug companies. its just a mold which sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. with social media and posting annonimously we tend to go to extremes when its a large grey area. I dont know your or others situations. ADHD is not my forte but finding inspiration has been elusive so its the only part i can relate. and just as well the part of medications and the wary of US doctors who tend to over Rx. which i think is the main problem w the opiod epidemic (even though its a different topic).


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## Desire Inspires (Jun 15, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> there was a lot of that indeed in the forums. i bought the main ones from racetams type of nootropics and tried them individually. but there is little to no effect. from piracetam to aniracetam it was hard to get a feeling for them. and not sure if it was a thing where you conciously dont feel it but its working or something but i gave up before jumping into stacking and other things. it felt more like what i think of CBD and the "craze" of it. snake oil thing. like people commenting in blind preamp shootouts and choosing neve only after they know its neve. placebo effect. at least with caffeine+L-theanine i could easily feel both the cofee and l-theanine.



Yeah, those nootropics are a scam. But a lucrative one. Wish I was in nootropics sales. Hell, maybe I should get into it.


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## MatthewHarnage (Jun 15, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> in general.. what i noticed in the US healthcare system... its that doctors really push drugs on patients. my wife went for a physical and saying she was a bit tired and the doctor gave her some anxiety type drug and antidepressants.... i forgot what brand and type but remember googling and seeing how addictive they are. people cannot just simply try them. its a whole life changing thing. i told her dont go for them... she got some sleep and that was it.



I do somewhat agree with you. That's why if you think you have ADHD you should go through a legit diagnosis. Not talking to your primary care doctor and taking a 6 question test haha. If you're doing the whole trifecta of therapist (referral), psychiatrist (medicine), and psychologist (specific ADHD tests) then your diagnosis is most likely correct. I had to take a ton of tests, had my doctor talk to my friends/family, and there has to be a clear indication of ADHD when you're a child. Otherwise nope, you got something else going on. 

Primary care doctors are notorious for knowing very little about mental disorders. There is just too much stuff to learn for 1 doctor to know it all. Specialists at least have a better idea of what they're talking about. Then if you get a specialist in your specific issue you're solid. 

Now paying for all of this stuff... that's a whole different subject haha, and the worst part. Good thing I have health insurance


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## creativeforge (Jun 15, 2019)

WaveRider said:


> I can use myself as substantial evidence. I was on dexedrine for years and it totally f'd me up physically. It left me with high blood pressure and hardened arteries -- with a low daily dose. Here's some more misinformation:
> 
> https://americanaddictioncenters.org/adderall/side-effects
> 
> ...



Yes, these are good points too. I have been off Adderall for 3 years now. Just started again this morning after consulting with my doc. I usually have lower blood pressure than higher. My heart rate jumped to 110 on Vyvanse. I don't experience that with Adderall.

I used to drink a pit of coffee every day. Now, if I drink one full cup it's a lot. But I will have to stop using Monster drinks (1 a day mixed with juice). I'm 62. 10mg XR to start with, and I didn't go beyond that for years. 

Believe me, I've been reading on this for years, watching videos and following ADHD experts (Barkley, Parker, Amen, Hallowell, Pera, etc). Medication was at the bottom of my list. I use supplements daily as well.


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## creativeforge (Jun 15, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> My best tip for falling asleep:
> breathe evenly and slowly (roughly between 4 and 6 breath cycles per minute), and count down from 30 backwards, one number between breaths: breathe in, breathe out, 30, breathe in, breathe out, 29, breathe in, breathe out, 28... etc.. I've reached 1 only _once_. Does wonders for me, and I've tried lots of things.



Yes, great idea. I do breathing exercises almost every night before sleep. I do find it helps. 



MartinH. said:


> Maybe have your vitamin-D levels checked. Western lifestyles often lead to a deficiency, everyone that I know who had their levels checked was very deficient and started supplementing.



Ah, I forget that one. I do have D3 here I often take. My latest tests showed pretty good across the board. 



MartinH. said:


> Did you read the patient information leaflet that comes with it (imho you should 100% read these for everything you get prescribed)? How long does it say it takes till initial side effects subside and positive effects engage? I haven't read any of these for ADHD meds yet, but for many many other neuro things it says 4 to 6 weeks before you even have a chance to get a positive effect. Side effects you can have from day 1, and not all of them will stay around, some will fade away over time.



Yes I do read, but everyone metabolism is different and the side-effects usually try to cover everything (even death). That's why doctors usually say "try this for a while and report back." The effects of stimulants are pretty quick to show, much faster than anti-depressants. That's why the doc want me to start with Adderall and see if that addresses the issues I am dealing with. 

In a few weeks, if needed, we'd add something else. But my hope is that I'll only need Adderall. Tweaking meds can take a while to find the right one/dosage. And that can also change over time so that you need to add something or increase a dosage. I hope I won't have to.

Even if it wasn't concerns for creativity and focus (many deal with this differently as well, stress and bad life habits, substance abuse, self-sabotage, etc), I still live too isolated, and wish I'd be more involved in the community or with humanitarian projects. But, eh. One step at a time.


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## creativeforge (Jun 16, 2019)

This is what I was concerned about.






But after Day #1 back on Adderall, supplements, forest bathing and playing piano, I think I'll be fine. I think it's the anti-depressant that messes most with the creative spark (in my case, anyway)  Of course this is only day #1, but what a contrast with Vyvanse.

Thanks to all who chimed in publicly and privately, it was enlightening and encouraging. Health concerns affect so many people, it's good to read about other people's journey. 

Cheers,

Andre


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## NYC Composer (Jun 16, 2019)

I walk in a little fake forest in Central Park, Manhattan. Every day. I birdwatch. I recommend the endorphins and the clean outdoor air. I feel pretty good.

On the other hand, I'm 65 and have been self medicating with whiskey most of my life, so don't listen to a word I say.

My son drinks that Monster crap-isn't that, like, double caffeine?


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## creativeforge (Jun 16, 2019)

*Then there's this, indeed, anyone looking into medical use of marijuana and its derivatives, should be sure of their provenance. Always work with supervision from a health professional, imho.*

(CNN) A drug called K2 is believed to be behind more than 100 overdoses in New Haven, Connecticut, this week. Some of those who overdosed experienced speeding heart rates, difficulty breathing and vomiting. Others were found collapsed in a semiconscious or unconscious state on the New Haven Green, the downtown park.

Although no deaths were reported, two people experienced serious, life-threatening consequences. Earlier this year, K2 was also tied to 56 cases of severe bleeding, including four deaths, across Chicago and central Illinois. In a separate incident, 33 people collapsed on the streets of New York City. A July report from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicated that the number of K2 poisonings rose sharply over the past year.

So what is this drug that is causing all this mayhem?





More than 90 people overdosed on K2 in one New Haven park

*'A different animal altogether'*
"The nomenclature 'synthetic marijuana' is really incorrect. These things are not synthetic marijuana, and I worry using this term might give the wrong impression, especially to young people," said Mike Baumann, chief of the Designer Drug Research Unit at the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

K2 or "spice" is a mixture of herbs, spices or shredded plant material that has been sprayed with chemicals that are similar to but not the same as THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana. Sometimes, K2 comes in liquid form to be vaporized in e-cigarettes. It is also smoked in joints or pipes or made into a tea.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/18/health/k2-synthetic-weed-explainer/index.html


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## dzilizzi (Jun 16, 2019)

creativeforge said:


> *Then there's this, indeed, anyone looking into medical use of marijuana and its derivatives, should be sure of their provenance. Always work with supervision from a health professional, imho.*
> 
> (CNN) A drug called K2 is believed to be behind more than 100 overdoses in New Haven, Connecticut, this week. Some of those who overdosed experienced speeding heart rates, difficulty breathing and vomiting. Others were found collapsed in a semiconscious or unconscious state on the New Haven Green, the downtown park.
> 
> ...


That is really scary. You think of marijuana as a fairly safe drug, compared to a lot of the other stuff out there. At least no more dangerous than alcohol. They recently started selling recreational marijuana here in California. I haven't taken advantage of it yet, but I would hope that legalizing it makes it a little more regulated as far as what they sell so you don't get stuff like K2.


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## creativeforge (Jun 16, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> That is really scary. You think of marijuana as a fairly safe drug, compared to a lot of the other stuff out there. At least no more dangerous than alcohol. They recently started selling recreational marijuana here in California. I haven't taken advantage of it yet, but I would hope that legalizing it makes it a little more regulated as far as what they sell so you don't get stuff like K2.



Definitely!


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## Divico (Jun 17, 2019)

Here in germany we had a big problem with spice for a while before they delegalizef it. Imo cannabis is way more dangerous than most people think. Not physically but mentally. Schizophrenia and amotivational syndrome are often caused by longtime usage


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## dzilizzi (Jun 17, 2019)

Divico said:


> Here in germany we had a big problem with spice for a while before they delegalizef it. Imo cannabis is way more dangerous than most people think. Not physically but mentally. Schizophrenia and amotivational syndrome are often caused by longtime usage


From what I've read, this is not necessarily true. The problem is heavy users of cannibis tend to have problems to start with, so they can't say for sure that cannibis caused the problem. But it may exacerbate it, or cause it to show up quicker. Really, it is no different than being a heavy user of alcohol. Moderation is best. Self medicating your problems away never works.


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## Mike Fox (Jun 17, 2019)

What a drag. My heart goes out to anyone who suffers from this.


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