# Logic Pro 1000+ track support coming?



## ka00 (Jun 4, 2019)

I haven’t had time to read this whole thing. But I didn’t see any threads about this. Anyone have any details? Is an update in the works that ups the track limit and logic?


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## Vik (Jun 4, 2019)

From https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/specs/:

Up to 1000 stereo audio channel strips
Up to 1000 software instrument channel strips
Up to 1000 auxiliary channel strips
Up to 256 busses
Up to 1000 external MIDI tracks
15 inserts for internal or Audio Units effect plug-ins
8 inserts for internal or Audio Units MIDI plug-ins
12 sends per channel strip, pre- or post-fader, or post-pan
32 groups for audio, software instrument, or MIDI channel strips​
The version they refer to is newer than the current release version, but I'm sure it will be released before the new Mac Pros are out in the fall - or maybe even soon, since they don't mention that these specs aren't in 10.4.4.


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## WindcryMusic (Jun 4, 2019)

I don't think they would have updated the claimed specs on their product page if they were not planning to release this update earlier than autumn ... in fact much earlier.


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## anp27 (Jun 4, 2019)

My guess is that the new paid update will come this July coinciding with Summer NAMM, historically that's what Apple has done anyway.


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## Audio Birdi (Jun 4, 2019)

anp27 said:


> My guess is that the new paid update will come this July coinciding with Summer NAMM, historically that's what Apple has done anyway.


Logic Pro X hasn't had a paid update ever since it's release I don't think?


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## anp27 (Jun 4, 2019)

Audio Birdi said:


> Logic Pro X hasn't had a paid update ever since it's release I don't think?


No, it has not, not since 2013. So whatever the next update will be will most likely be a major and paid update. Logic jumped from version 9 to X in the summer of 2013, also coinciding with Summer NAMM 2013.


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## JEPA (Jun 4, 2019)

this big update/upgrade lays on the new Mac Pro.. I don't think my old MacPro will handle 1000 tracks..


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## anp27 (Jun 4, 2019)

ka00 said:


> Why would you think it is now going to be a paid upgrade all of a sudden? Why wouldn’t this next upgrade just be 10.5?


1. We don't know if it's going to be 10.5 for sure
2. It's been 6 years since the last paid update... a bit overdue if you ask me. 4 years in between Logic 9 and X.

These are just my guesses and I could be 100% wrong. Actually I HOPE I'm wrong because I would love for the next version of Logic to be a free update.


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 4, 2019)

_"What you're looking at here, is a brand new version of Logic and the theme of this release is all about performance..."
_
The exact words of the stage presentation. If it's just a performance update, it doesn't sound like something that's chargeable unless there's a host of goodies to come.

I'll put my chips down with the "imminent release" crowd. That said, I was convinced of a January Namm release..


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## gpax (Jun 4, 2019)

Alex Fraser said:


> _"What you're looking at here, is a brand new version of Logic and the theme of this release is all about performance..."
> _
> The exact words of the stage presentation. If it's just a performance update, it doesn't sound like something that's chargeable unless there's a host of goodies to come.


Thank you. I was going to post the same.


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## anp27 (Jun 4, 2019)

Alex Fraser said:


> _"What you're looking at here, is a brand new version of Logic and the theme of this release is all about performance..."
> _
> The exact words of the stage presentation. If it's just a performance update, it doesn't sound like something that's chargeable unless there's a host of goodies to come.
> 
> I'll put my chips down with the "imminent release" crowd. That said, I was convinced of a January Namm release..



Oh ok, either way I'm happy that an update is coming, paid, major, free or not. I guess we'll only _really_ know what happens when it actually happens.


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## WindcryMusic (Jun 4, 2019)

JEPA said:


> this big update/upgrade lays on the new Mac Pro.. I don't think my old MacPro will handle 1000 tracks..



Well, perhaps it depends. If another new feature of the anticipated Logic update was to unload memory and CPU for powered-down tracks, then ... mmm ... eh, sorry, what was I saying? I think I began having a bit of an overly-pleasant daydream there.


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## cmillar (Jun 4, 2019)

Or, to quote Quincy Jones...."...a good piece of music should sound great even when played with one finger at a time on a piano...."

1000 tracks?....really?....why?


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## Dewdman42 (Jun 4, 2019)

I think 1000 track limit in LPX makes a lot of sense for large templates. the ability to be able to actually play back 1000 tracks at once, makes not much sense, though it was a fun demo of the new MacPro. 

They said the focus of this LogicPro update was performance, so let's hope they put more thought into better core utilization, I'm doubtful, but never know.

Though I have to say, right now I am seriously wondering if I need to start using a different DAW anyway in anticipation of a switch to PC in a couple years from now.


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## VinRice (Jun 4, 2019)

cmillar said:


> Or, to quote Quincy Jones...."...a good piece of music should sound great even when played with one finger at a time on a piano...."
> 
> 1000 tracks?....really?....why?



256 tracks is too few, so why not go for the 1000? Many composers have way more than that by the way. Unlimited would have been better but the way Apple manages the processing resources I imagine they wanted to make sure that 1000 tracks could actually play simultaneously on at least one of their machines (even if the configuration in question will cost about $20K)


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## A.G (Jun 4, 2019)

anp27 said:


> So whatever the next update will be will most likely be a major and paid update. Logic jumped from version 9 to X in the summer of 2013, also coinciding with Summer NAMM 2013.


I'm 100% agreed with *anp27* . Six years is a very long time...

I expect a major paid update, may be LP XI. There are quite a lot of invisible features (not announced by Apple) which were implemented in the latest LPX versions (a sort of tests in the update builds). 
- I noted quite a lot Environment new features which were not announced.
- Some of the factory Instruments came with more than 127 Articulation IDs.
- I noted a new development of CC Art IDs which makes me think that Apple are trying to develop Note expressions (similar to Cubase ones).
- etc ....


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## Audio Birdi (Jun 4, 2019)

I think they went to 1000 to go to Avid "we have more than you and still charge $300, not $1000 a year for PTHD" in a sense. To draw even more potential users to Logic in a sense.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 4, 2019)

Only 3000 tracks?!

Gee thanks Apple, the iPhone GarageBand company. When are they going to start taking pro users seriously?

We need way more than that to write good music.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 5, 2019)

anp27 said:


> No, it has not, not since 2013. So whatever the next update will be will most likely be a major and paid update. Logic jumped from version 9 to X in the summer of 2013, also coinciding with Summer NAMM 2013.



No, it likely will be a free upgrade.


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## Geoff Grace (Jun 5, 2019)

Yeah, as Logic Pro X is essentially a loss leader for Apple, the cost of an upgrade is mostly rolled into the price of a new Mac. Or put another way—every time we buy a new Mac, we're helping to underwrite Apple's software development, which they then distribute either for free or below market cost.

I'd be surprised if Apple charged for the next update.

Best,

Geoff


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 5, 2019)

After looking at the new system requirements, my ancient iMac is hanging in there, but my iPad Air looks like it'll no longer run Logic remote. That's a shame.


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## Lee Blaske (Jun 5, 2019)

I won't complain if it's a paid upgrade, but I'd be surprised if it was. If Apple was seriously interested in making money off of Logic Pro, there would have been a number of upgrades by now. As is often mentioned, it's a loss leader to sell computers.

And, Apple's policy of not charging for upgrades has really been kicking the competition's butt. For $199, considering all the content and all the plug-ins, nothing can touch Logic Pro. Plus, for the entire Logic Pro X user base out there, there's not much reason to run anything but the latest version. That means the entire user base is pretty much up-to-date with Logic Pro X (that makes collaboration GREAT). It's not a version minefield, like ProTools, where people are using every version under the sun (either because they don't want to pay for an upgrade, or because their OS doesn't support it, or because their computer is obsolete and not supported, or because their Avid/Digidesign interfaces and cards are not supported). ProTools needs to sell their software that way, because that's where they make their cash, but their user base is a mess.


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## InLight-Tone (Jun 6, 2019)

I wonder if they will add Visibility management like Cubase to handle all the tracks we'll have access too?


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## Cinebient (Jun 6, 2019)

There are DAWs on iPad which have unlimited tracks, FX inserts, midi FX inserts....not that any device could handle 1000+ but i wonder why there is any limit at all within Logic.
I would like to have more FX and especially midi FX inserts per channel.
But i´m mostly interested if we see new tools/synths/FX in the next Logic version.
I wish Sculpture 2.0 would come and as usual some Alchemy upgrades.
I also wish i could have more layers of stacked tracks/groups (like Bitwig).
There is so much more i would like to have inside Logic before i want 1000 tracks from anything


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## charlieclouser (Jun 8, 2019)

I'm one of the few non-John-Powell users who will be absolutely thrilled at 1,000 instrument capability. Since I use EXS24 almost exclusively, I can build even more ridiculous templates that include everything I could want in a project, and then just collapse and hide the folders. Since EXS does that "keep common samples in memory when switching projects" thing (basically the same as "Preserved But Not Decoupled" in VEPro), I can avoid hosting anything other than Kontakt/Omnisphere/Play/Spitfire in VEPro and project switching will stay under 10 seconds. Even with 256 Instrument tracks I've run out when building big templates.

256 busses will be handy as well, allowing me to go to a higher number of quad stems with dedicated per-stem front-and-back reverbs and delays. Still hoping they'll implement the "surround busses A-Z" solution that Clemens proposed a couple of years back, but until then more busses will get me by.


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## Dewdman42 (Jun 8, 2019)

charlieclouser said:


> Since EXS does that "keep common samples in memory when switching projects" thing (basically the same as "Preserved But Not Decoupled" in VEPro), I can avoid hosting anything other than Kontakt/Omnisphere/Play/Spitfire in VEPro and project switching will stay under 10 seconds. .



Can you please elaborate on this?


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## charlieclouser (Jun 8, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> Can you please elaborate on this?



For the last 15 years or so, Logic's EXS24 sampler has had a function that's very similar to using "Preserve = ON, Decouple = OFF" in VEPro. Open the EXS plugin, then under the Options button on the front-panel GUI, choose "Preferences". This opens a small dialog that's just for the EXS24 settings, and this is the only place you can find and adjust these settings. You can do great things like specify an incoming MIDI event to go to the next/previous Instrument for quick browsing (I wish Kontakt had this, or if it does, that I knew where it was!).

But the interesting one is the bottom-most checkbox: "Keep common samples in memory when switching projects". When this is enabled, Logic will not un-load and then re-load the samples needed by EXS24 when you switch between projects that both use the same instruments. 

So, if you build a template with a zillion EXS instances, and then have a whole bunch of projects that were all created from that template, switching between those projects will be VERY quick. Logic just compares the EXS instances in the outgoing project to those in the incoming project and you can watch it just blaze through the process. In my projects that use 200+ EXS instances it takes about 10 seconds to switch between projects.

So it's like "Preserve but NOT Decouple" in VEPro - the front panel settings for all EXS instances ARE saved with each project, so you can adjust filter / ADSR / mod matrix / whatever in one project and then go to another project and those settings will be changed to whatever they were when that project was last saved. 

This is absolutely killer, and I don't like to work any other way. I want each project to have unique, saved settings for all front-panel settings for every sampler instance. Of course, this isn't such a huge deal when working with Kontakt orchestral libraries, since many of them don't even have anything worth adjusting on the front panel - no ADSR, no filter, etc. This is a huge pain for the way I like to work, and is a big reason I hardly use Kontakt. 

Plus, EXS puts the velocity-switching and crossfade controls on the front panel, as mod matrix routings, so you can instantly switch between velocity-crossfade and modwheel-crossfade and tweak the crossfade amount and curve. Doing that in Kontakt involves going under the hood, selecting groups, finding and then dealing with that crazy "curve table" modulator, etc. Pain.

Yes, EXS is very limited compared to Kontakt - no true-legato-transitions, difficult (if not impossible) multi-mic position support, etc. etc. etc. But dang is it quick to use, and I can manage massive templates almost as quickly as if they had no software instruments at all. I did a test a while back where I converted all of the EXS Instruments in a template to Kontakt, and then rebuilt the whole thing using Kontakt instances, and it was torture to work with. My quick and light template (even with 250+ EXS instances) acted like a pig once I had 250 Kontakt instances. So I deployed all of those Kontakt instruments in VEPro, and Logic acted a little snappier but the workflow was a huge drag for me.

So I'm still EXS all the way.... or at least, as much as possible. All eight of the SAW movies, all of my other movies and tv series... all EXS, except for maybe twenty cues (out of thousands) where I used a few Kontakt or Omnisphere patches. I just finished another film score that's 100% EXS and audio tracks. Quick-n-easy.


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## novaburst (Jun 8, 2019)

I would really like to witness a full production using even 700 tracks i mean come on guys.


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## charlieclouser (Jun 8, 2019)

I forgot to mention on downside / missing feature about EXS "Keep common samples in memory when switching projects" feature - it only works for those EXS instances that use the same instrument IN THE SAME SLOT in the two projects. So if you use an EXS patch in Instrument 47 in project A, and the same patch in Instrument 48 in project B, Logic will un-load and re-load that patch when you with projects. This might be programmer error, or maybe it's too time-consuming for Logic to cross-check the matrix of possibilities between every EXS patch used in project A agains all those used in project B, but... I thought I should mention it before someone complains that it's not working on their system.

In practice, it's not a huge drawback, since you'll likely build out a template at the start of the project and then use "Save As" to create the files for each cue, so the slots that any given EXS patch is loaded into are not likely to change all that often, but I did notice this slight drawback when fiddling around one day. Maybe it's been fixed in more recent Logic versions - I'm still on v10.2.4 like some sort of caveman.


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## Geoff Grace (Jun 8, 2019)

novaburst said:


> I would really like to witness a full production using even 700 tracks i mean come on guys.


There are people who work like this. One example might be when a variety of remixes live in the same session with the original multitrack recording. You wind up with a number of alternate versions, each with 100+ tracks. I saw that sort of thing when I was working in the record industry. The recording artist wants it that way, and the arrangers and engineers have to deal with the headache of keeping it all organized.

Best,

Geoff


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## novaburst (Jun 8, 2019)

ok i guess that,s one way to build up track count


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## charlieclouser (Jun 8, 2019)

novaburst said:


> ok i guess that,s one way to build up track count



Another way is to just have every possible sound you might want to use in a score up on an instrument track, with EQ, compression, routing, etc. in place and ready to go, all sorted into the order that makes it easy for you to find what's there quickly, without loading any instruments or their patches. Then you can pack 'em into folders and/or hide the tracks so you're not scrolling through all 1,000 all the time. This is how I tend to work, and it's easy to use up a LOT of instrument slots quickly.

If you watch some of JunkieXL's videos he often does this, although it takes a few VEPro slaves for him to get everything up all at the same time.


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## novaburst (Jun 8, 2019)

charlieclouser said:


> JunkieXL's



An incredible guy seen his set up and a few of his vids


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 11, 2019)

novaburst said:


> I would really like to witness a full production using even 700 tracks i mean come on guys.



I have never seen a project using that many tracks simultaneously, but I have indeed seen guys with well over 1000 tracks loaded into their templates. Many composers work like this. They like to have every possible articulation loaded so that it's there, ready to go if the inspiration strikes.


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## Damarus (Jun 11, 2019)

I would hope a $15,000 computer can handle 1000 carefully selected tracks for a live demo on software that is optimized for that OS and hardware.


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## VinRice (Jun 11, 2019)

Damarus said:


> I would hope a $15,000 computer can handle 1000 carefully selected tracks for a live demo on software that is optimized for that OS and hardware.


... and it did. What's your point?


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## novaburst (Jun 11, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I have never seen a project using that many tracks simultaneously,



I think i was thinking more on these terms,



Wolfie2112 said:


> but I have indeed seen guys with well over 1000 tracks loaded into their templates. Many composers work like this.



But i guess this counts too

I dont think i have ever reached 90 tracks but in Vienna ensemble pro there can be hundreds but stream lined into cubase you can say they are a kind of bus in VE with all the effects inside VE too in server too.


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## InLight-Tone (Jun 11, 2019)

charlieclouser said:


> For the last 15 years or so, Logic's EXS24 sampler has had a function that's very similar to using "Preserve = ON, Decouple = OFF" in VEPro. Open the EXS plugin, then under the Options button on the front-panel GUI, choose "Preferences". This opens a small dialog that's just for the EXS24 settings, and this is the only place you can find and adjust these settings. You can do great things like specify an incoming MIDI event to go to the next/previous Instrument for quick browsing (I wish Kontakt had this, or if it does, that I knew where it was!).
> 
> But the interesting one is the bottom-most checkbox: "Keep common samples in memory when switching projects". When this is enabled, Logic will not un-load and then re-load the samples needed by EXS24 when you switch between projects that both use the same instruments.
> 
> ...


I'm new to Logic but I feel I need to study all of Charlies excellent advice on the subject. Thanks for typing all this out man!


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## anp27 (Jun 12, 2019)

A.G said:


> I'm 100% agreed with *anp27* . Six years is a very long time...


Exactly, I mean... Are they now going to have us wait 7/8/9/10, etc years before the next paid update then?



A.G said:


> There are quite a lot of invisible features (not announced by Apple) which were implemented in the latest LPX versions (a sort of tests in the update builds).
> - I noted quite a lot Environment new features which were not announced.
> - Some of the factory Instruments came with more than 127 Articulation IDs.
> - I noted a new development of CC Art IDs which makes me think that Apple are trying to develop Note expressions (similar to Cubase ones).
> - etc ....



Wow... interesting observations regarding the unannounced new additions!


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## Spid (Jul 26, 2022)

I’m building my first large template in Logic Pro, and I really wonder if the 1,000 instruments tracks is for active tracks or also for inactive tracks?

My issue that is I haven’t added 10% of my libraries and I’m already getting close to 700 tracks. So by the time I add couple more libraries, I will already reach 1,000 instruments tracks. But I mainly keep them inactive so I can just open the folder track I want, scroll t the instrument I’m looking for, activate it and play… 

Does anyone know if we can have more than 1,000 instrument tracks if they’re inactive?

Thanks


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## Vik (Jul 26, 2022)

I'm pretty sure the max instrument tracks, active or inactive, is 1000, because if you create an empty song and asks Logic to create 1001 tracks Logic corrects this to 1000 tracks.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 26, 2022)

I think 1000 tracks is all you can do..well actually its not 1000 tracks...its 1000 instrument "channels" and each instrument channel hosts one instrument plugin. If any of those plugins are multi-timbral instruments, then you can have many midi tracks feeding each one and end up with multiple thousands of midi tracks that feed into your various 1000 instrument plugins. So in logicPro if you want to have a template with more than 1000 instrument tracks you will need to figure out how to use multi-timbal instruments to do it.

VePro is a giant multi-timbral instrument by the way. That alone can explode the max to 768,000 possible instrument tracks if you wanted to take it all the way to what is fully possible, but your computer will catch on fire before then.


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