# Cinesamples Cineperc Released (all 4 libraries live) 299$/each $999 bundle



## mikebarry (Nov 22, 2012)

This library was a beast to make, we went through (2) 4TB drives during the 2 weeks of recording. The tonal depth, full spectrum sound and stereo panoramic is really astounding. I've never heard such wide left and right in my speakers. 

Its done. Launching next week. 

http://youtu.be/nezSnMPG2MY


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## danielcartisano (Nov 22, 2012)

[email protected]#$ me I'm trying to save...



Sounds/looks awesome guys! Well done.


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## Blakus (Nov 22, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

What an awesomely put together video guys! Really enjoyed it - library looks great!


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## RiffWraith (Nov 22, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

How much?

I mean, not how much is the lib, how much was on the console. 8)


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## marcotronic (Nov 22, 2012)

Hey guys, 

that's not fair...

You promised some important update to the Cinebrass stuff which for me at least has been almost unusable since I bought it when it first came out! (Tuning and programming issues - each time I want to use Cinebrass + Pro I try for half an hour, getting hacked off especially with the tuning issues (especially when used in combination with properly tuned synths for hybrid stuff...), close the damn library again and use some other brass lib)

Now you release another product first. That reminds me of some other sample library vendor very well known in this forum who also released on new lib after the other without solving serious issues with other libs first.

I understand you have to earn new money to go on but I must really say that I will never ever buy another of your libraries in the future. Nor will I buy anything ever again from the other said vendor.

I'm really totally pissed off.

Marco


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## RiffWraith (Nov 22, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Ok, serious question - during the timp part of the vid, the timps that are not being played have these small circular red thigamajiggies on the skins. My first assumption is they are there to keep those timps quiet - is that correct?


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## mikebarry (Nov 22, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Marco dont be upset. THe updates are also finished and on their way to the servers.


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## Kralc (Nov 22, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Damn! Sounds awesome. 
Does the kit come in core or pro?

And can we expect phase 4 sometime in the future?? :shock:


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## mikebarry (Nov 22, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*



RiffWraith @ Thu Nov 22 said:


> Ok, serious question - during the timp part of the vid, the timps that are not being played have these small circular red thigamajiggies on the skins. My first assumption is they are there to keep those timps quiet - is that correct?




Yes, you can see them at the concert hall also.


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## marcotronic (Nov 22, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*



mikebarry @ Fri Nov 23 said:


> Marco dont be upset. THe updates are also finished and on their way to the servers.



Now that's good news! Thanks!

Marco


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## windshore (Nov 22, 2012)

I've had the original CinePerc collection for years. This sounds like it's many levels above. Exciting update/ upgrade /!


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## Ryan Scully (Nov 22, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Sounds spectacular guys! Really enjoyed the vid as well!





Ryan =o


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## noiseboyuk (Nov 22, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Bloody ell! You had a CRANE in there! What a video, and what a library.

All the best with this guys. Looking forward to the Core / Pro details etc.


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## jleckie (Nov 22, 2012)

That was a VERY well produced video people. Hats of to you and much success with your hard work.


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## jamwerks (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Exciting new! This industry is lucky to have guys like you around. =o _-) =o


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## Winslow (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Will there be an upgrade option for the owners of the percussion bundle (CineSnare & CineCrash)? I also waited a long time for CineTimp but it never arrived. I know CinePerc are all new samples but since the old series is discountinued it would be a nice upgrade path and a great statement to the philosophy of making "living libraries". 

Cheers,

Winslow


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## jamwerks (Nov 23, 2012)

Are there going to be two packages (core – pro)?
Maybe divided: orchestral – other.... ?


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## Christian F. Perucchi (Nov 23, 2012)

Congrats for the Mikes! now making Cinestrings?  and then make a complete orchestral bundle?


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## Martin Brannigan (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Fantastic video guys, and the new library looks like it's going to be super exciting.
Great job !


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Congrats on the new library guys, it looks like it was a ton of work, and a lot of fun!

I too am anxious to get the updated patches for CineWinds.
In its current state, this library hasn't lived up to my expectations.
Thanks


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## germancomponist (Nov 23, 2012)

Congrats Mikes & team!


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## Pietro (Nov 23, 2012)

Aren't there enough percussion libraries out there? Nope.

- Piotr


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## dannthr (Nov 23, 2012)

Really compelling featurette, guys!


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## Patrick_Gill (Nov 23, 2012)

Seriously looking forward to this. Great Job guys!


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## playz123 (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Informative video and a treat to watch. Wishing you much success with the new library.
Sounds promising.


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## muziksculp (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Wow ! Great stuff ... and nicely produced video presentation. 

Looking forward to this one. 

Although, I just got the Spitfire Perc. library a couple weeks ago, and now I see this... very tempting :D 

Question : Are there plans for a new *Orch. Strings library* by Cinesamples ? 

If Yes, when is that expected for release ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## mikebarry (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

The Cineperc libraries are actually all completed. Releasing on or about Wednesday. 

Strings? ! Maybe....

We have two teams working always; 1 an update team 2 a new product team.


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## muziksculp (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*



mikebarry @ Fri Nov 23 said:


> The Cineperc libraries are actually all completed. Releasing on or about Wednesday.
> 
> Strings? ! Maybe....
> 
> We have two teams working always; 1 an update team 2 a new product team.



I hope you mean 'Maybe .... Yes' to new Cinesamples Strings :lol: 

Thanks, and All The Best to your future Library plans,

Muziksculp


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## Ed (Nov 23, 2012)

This looks great though it did bother me that all the music had nothing to do with the product, I heard Daniel James' DOW2 demo for example when you started talking about the ethnic drums. Other people wont know that that arent sample nerds like us and assume its part of the library. Maybe you dont have any demos yet, but I do think in future it is better to have music actually made with the samples


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## mikebarry (Nov 23, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Ed there simply is no time for that type of thing but thanks for the thought!


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## Maestro77 (Nov 24, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Fantastic featurette, guys. Really looking forward to checking this out. Seriously awesome that you thought of adding a rock kit to the library. That kind of fun extra stuff, beyond what you'd expect from a normal orchestral percussion library, made it a must-purchase in my book.


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## Vision (Nov 24, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Congrats Mikes, I'm sure the library is spectacular. The only problem is near the end.. No slow motion high fives? Where are the black overcoats, and shades? No getaway car? Next time go full action bromance ending, or don't go at all. Smh. :D


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## ryanstrong (Nov 24, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

I had previously asked this, but will "Randy's Celeste" be sold with Cineperc or is it a separate instrument? Would love to purchase the Celeste on it's own, sounds beautiful.


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## colony nofi (Nov 27, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Just heard this...
https://soundcloud.com/cinesamples/cineperc-core-teaser


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## maest (Nov 27, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

You can always stay up-to-date with our FB thread:
https://www.facebook.com/cinesamples

Best!


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## quantum7 (Nov 27, 2012)

Wow! I was going to purchase Spitfire's percussion a couple weeks ago, but for some unknown reason they never answered my e-mails. Maybe it was meant to be because Cineperc may be exactly what I'm looking for. VERY intrigued!!!


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## james7275 (Nov 27, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

Yes this sounds very good! I'm definitely going to be keeping my eye on this.


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## Dan Mott (Nov 27, 2012)

So all that's left is CineStrings


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## mark812 (Nov 28, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*



> This is Part 1 of the 4 Part library



Hm, if it's going to cost $800 or more, it's going to have a hard time competing with Spitfire Percussion which is superb.


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## R.Cato (Nov 28, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*



mark812 @ Wed Nov 28 said:


> > This is Part 1 of the 4 Part library
> 
> 
> 
> Hm, if it's going to cost $800 or more, it's going to have a hard time competing with Spitfire Percussion which is superb.



I think CinePerc also has ethnic instruments and some kind of "wardrums" in it. So you can't compare them.


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## Benji (Nov 28, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

4 parts?!
Hmm let me speculate:
-Core
-Pro
-Ethnic
-Ensembles
?


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## synapse21 (Nov 28, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

I'm sure it will follow the pattern of their other two libraries, for a total of around $750-$800 for Core and Pro. I, for one, haven't purchased the Spitfire percussion library yet because I wanted to see how CinePerc turned out.

I'll be _really _interested to see what Cinesamples does with "CineStrings", with all of the string library competition out there. Maybe we'll get that next year?


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## mark812 (Nov 28, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*



R.Cato @ Wed Nov 28 said:


> mark812 @ Wed Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > > This is Part 1 of the 4 Part library
> ...



I'm interested in the orchestral part of the library, there are plenty of (good) "epic" percussion libraries out there..Cinesamples already have some as well.


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## Maestro77 (Nov 28, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

I'm also hoping for a price competitive with Spitfire, which is awesome. Not a multi-part, Core/Pro situation again at $800+. Take what Spitfire's done, add to it and make it better, and sell it for the same price. That'd be a home run.


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## Hal (Nov 28, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

great work,and great video too !

dont miss am mike and am mike at the end  

so its sold seperatly ? more demos pls..

nice teaser https://soundcloud.com/cinesamples/cineperc-core-teaser


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## Cinesamples (Nov 28, 2012)

The breakdown is as follows:

CinePerc CORE (50GB) Orchestral Percussion Essentials
CinePerc PRO (30GB) Orchestral Percussion Expansion
CinePerc EPIC (9GB) Large Percussion and Ensembles
CinePerc AUX (12GB) Auxiliary Percussion Expansion

Total library has over 170 deeply sampled instruments, measuring at 100GB (compressed NCW)

Thanks!
MP


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## quantum7 (Nov 28, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*



mark812 @ Wed Nov 28 said:


> > This is Part 1 of the 4 Part library
> 
> 
> 
> Hm, if it's going to cost $800 or more, it's going to have a hard time competing with Spitfire Percussion which is superb.




Yikes- is that what the entire thing will cost? Spitfire's percussion is definitely less expensive than that, not to mention that as a music teacher they gave me a nice teacher/student discount when I bought Albion months back. I recall Cinesample's Education discount not being as large as Spitfire's also. Hmmm......much thinking to do now.


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## Ganvai (Nov 29, 2012)

CineSamples @ 29th November 2012 said:


> The breakdown is as follows:
> 
> CinePerc CORE (50GB) Orchestral Percussion Essentials
> CinePerc PRO (30GB) Orchestral Percussion Expansion
> ...



Oh my god! Seems I have to make a decission... repair my car or buy cineperc? :roll:


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## benmrx (Nov 29, 2012)

CineSamples @ Wed Nov 28 said:


> The breakdown is as follows:
> 
> CinePerc CORE (50GB) Orchestral Percussion Essentials
> CinePerc PRO (30GB) Orchestral Percussion Expansion
> ...



Just wanted to say how happy I am that you broke this up into these individual packages! It sounds like you really went to town with this one. VERY curious as to which package that traditional drumset is in?!?! I would guess it's the 'auxiliary expansion'. I'm actually wondering if there would be a way to get those drum samples into say.... Slates Trigger plugin for augmenting live drums.


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## Maestro77 (Nov 29, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

OK, I must retract my earlier comment regarding my hope that CinePerc not be divided into multiple parts. After seeing how things have been grouped, now it makes sense. Nice to be able to grab only the parts you need without paying for the whole lot. Looking forward to it.


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## mikebarry (Nov 29, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc coming next week; Watch the 14 minute featurette*

http://cinesamples.com/products/cineperc/


Released!


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## MA-Simon (Nov 29, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc Released (all 4 libraries live)*

1.400$ *gargle* >8o

Congrats on the release though!


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## stonzthro (Nov 29, 2012)

I like the modular approach but the total price seems a bit steep - unless it sounds FANTASTICALLY better than anything else out there.


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## dannthr (Nov 29, 2012)

Congratulations on the release, guys, it sounds really great!


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## artinro (Nov 29, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc Released (all 4 libraries live)*

Looks and sounds great guys! Can you give us some more details on the depth of some of the key instruments (Dynamic Layers, RR etc...)


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## MaestroRage (Nov 29, 2012)

I don't believe this is a product in which you must own everything. I mean Spitfire doesn't cover half as much ground as this does in total and honestly I don't see myself needing aux or even pro expansion at all. Core and Epic would do just fine and in that regard the price is more agreeable with me.


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## ryanstrong (Nov 29, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc Released (all 4 libraries live)*

Is the Celeste in CinePerc PRO thee celeste, Randy's Celeste?


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## mikebarry (Nov 29, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc Released (all 4 libraries live)*

This is a very different type of saturated library - for example it says "triangle" but we did 6 different triangles each with two beaters.

Multiple mallets on the keyboard mallets and such with rolls. Its a literal encyclopedia of instruments and playing techniques. 


There is a celeste but it is not the Randy's Celeste which is up next.


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 29, 2012)

Congrats Mike and Mike.


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## ryanstrong (Nov 29, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc Released (all 4 libraries live)*



mikebarry @ Thu Nov 29 said:


> There is a celeste but it is not the Randy's Celeste which is up next.



Ah, thank you. Congrats on the release!


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## quantum7 (Nov 29, 2012)

MaestroRage @ Thu Nov 29 said:


> I mean Spitfire doesn't cover half as much ground as this does



Really? It seems like Spitfire covers a lot of ground.

*SPITFIRE PERCUSSION PATCH LIST v2.1*

Bongos
Bongo Hits
Bongos Rolls MW
Bongo Swells
Congas
Conga Rolls MW
Conga Swells
Conga1 Hits
Conga2 Hits
Rototoms
Rototoms Hits Reversed
Rototoms Hits
Rototoms Swells Reversed
Rototoms Swells
Snare 1
Snare1 Hits off
Snare1 Hits
Snare1 Rolls MW
Snare1 Swells Off
Snare1 Swells
Snare 1
Snare2 Hits off
Snare2 Hits
Snare2 Rolls MW
Snare2 Swells Off
Snare2 Swells
Snare 3
Snare3 Hits
Timbale Hits
Timbale Swells
BD All
BD Hits Muted
BD Hits
BD Rolls HS MW
BD Rolls MW
BD Rub fx
BD rute
BD Swells
Ensemble Toms Hits
Field Drum
Field Drum Hoits Off
Field Drum Hits
Field Drum Rolls
Field Drum Swells Off
Field Drum Swells
Gong Drum
Gong Drum Drags and Drags Wood
Gong Drum FX
Gong Drum Hits
Gong Drum Swells and Swells Wood
Toms Hits Reversed
Tom Hits
Tom Swells f
Tom Swells mf
Celeste Tight
Celeste
Crotales
Desk Bells
Glock Hits
Tubular Bells
Vibes Hits
Vibes Sus Hits Motor Mod
Vibes Sus Hits RT version with Motor Mod
Vibes Sus Hits RT version
Vibes Sus Hits
Marimba Hits
Xylo Hits
Timp Rolls
Timp Hits Muted
Timp Hits
Timps Swells f MW
Timp Swells mf
aa Toys All Split 1
aa Toys all Split 2
Agogo Hits
Cabasa Hits
Castanets
Cowbell Hits
Gankogui Hits
Guiro Hits Zips
Jawbone Hits
Ratchet Hits
Shakers
Ship Bells
Sleighbells Hits Roll
Tamborines
Tamb1 and 2 Swells
Tamb 1 Hits
Tamb 1 Rolls
Tamb 2 Hits
Anvils
Anvil Hits
Mini Anvil Hits
Cym Hi
Cym Hi FX Scrapes Bows
Cym Hi Hits Brush RR
Cym Hi Hits HS Choked
Cym Hi Hits HS
Cym Hi Hits MLT Choked
Cym Hi Hits MLT
Cym Hi Rolls MW
Cym Hi Swell f
Cym Hi Swell HS f
Cym Hi Swell HS mf
Cym Hi Swell mf
Cym Lo
Cym Lo Fx Bowed
Cym Lo FX Scrapes
Cym Lo Hits Brush
Cym Lo Hits HS Choked
Cym Lo Hits HS
Cym Lo Hits Mlt Choked
Cym Lo Hits Mlt
Cym Lo Rolls MW
Cym Lo Swell f
Cym Lo Swell mf
Cym Med
Cym Med Hits HS choked
Cym Med Hits HS
Cym Med Hits Mlt choked
Cym Med Hits Mlt
Cym Med Rolls MW
Cym Med Swells f
Cym Med Swells HS f
Cym Med Swells HS mf
Cym Med Swells mf
Mark Tree Sweeps Lo Mid Hi
Mark Tree
Piatti FX Scrapes Sizzles
Piatti Hits Chokes
Piatti Hits
Rain sheet
Rain Sheet Bowed
Rain Sheet Hits Choked
Rain Sheet Hits Swells
Rain Sheet Hits
Rain Sheet Rolls
Rain Sheet Superball
Rivet Cym
Rivet Cym Hits
Rivet Cym Rolls MW
Rivet Cym Swells
Tam Tam FX Scrapes
Tam Tam FX Superball
Tam Tam Hits Choked
Tam Tam Hits
Tam Tam Rolls
Tam Tam Swells f
Tam Tam Swells mf
Wind Gong
Wind Gong Bowed
Wind Gong Hits
Wind Gong Swells
z Trash Metals
Brake Drum 1 Hits Metal
Brake Drum 1 Hits Plastic
Brake Drum 2 Hits Metal
Brake Drum 2 Hits Plastic
Pan Hits Metal
Pan Hits Plastic
Scaf Pole 1 Hits Metal
Scaf Pole 1 Hits Plastic
Scaf Pole 2 Hits Metal
Scaf Pole 2 Hits Plastic
Spring Coil Hits Metal
Spring Coil Hits Metalund
TrashCan Hits End
TrashCan Hits Side
Claves
Temple Blocks
Temple Blocks All
Temple Blocks Soft Stick
WoodBlocks HS All
Woodblocks Rubs All


*CINEPERC both CORE & PRO*

Bass Drums 1
Bass Drums 2
Concert Toms
Glockenspiel
Gongs – TamTam
Orchestral Cymbals-Bowed
Orchestral Cymbals
Snares: Concert, Piccolo, Popcorn
Snares: Tenor/Field, Military, Metal
Tambourines
Timpani
Timpani FX
Triangles, Mark Tree
Tubular Bells
Xylophone
Bell Tree, Sleigh Bells, BrakeDrum,
Anvil, CowBells
Car Horns, Lions Roars, Spring Drums
Celeste
Crotales
Drum Kit
Drum Kit Combo Fills
Flexatone
Glass Marimba
Computer Keyboard and Mouse
Marimba
TMGM Tubular Bells
Octoban
Orchestral Shakers
Ratchet, Vibraslap, Sandblocks
Roto Toms
Sticks and Tickies
Temple Blocks
Typewriter
Vibraphone
Waterphone – Normal
Waterphone – Water
Whistles: Train, Siren, Slide
Wood Block, Castanets, Slap Sticks
____________________________________________

Am I missing something? I'm sure that Sony stage will sound great, though. Decisions, decisions.....I need a complete orchestra percussion set, but I also don't want to mortgage the house again to get one. $1300 is a bit steep for me to get the whole enchilada. :shock:


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## MaestroRage (Nov 29, 2012)

Sean,

All i'm really getting from that list is Spitfire has made several dozens of instrument patches unnecessarily whereas this product, like all the other Cine products, utilizes one patch to cover significant ground.

I imagine if Spitfire condensed their percussion into patches like Cine, it would look something like this.

SPITFIRE UNIQUE INSTRUMENTS (if they put all articulations of each percussion instrument in one patch)
--------------------------------------
Bongos
Congas
Rototoms
Snare 1
Snare2
Snare 3
BD All
Ensemble Toms Hits
Field Drum
Gong Drum
Tom Hits
Celeste 
Crotales
Desk Bells
Glock Hits
Tubular Bells
Vibes Hits
Marimba Hits
Xylo Hits
Timp 
aa Toys All Split 1 (what is this? Unique?)
aa Toys all Split 2
Agogo Hits
Cabasa Hits
Castanets
Cowbell Hits
Gankogui Hits
Guiro Hits Zips
Jawbone Hits
Ratchet Hits
Shakers
Ship Bells
Sleighbells Hits Roll
Tamborines
Tamb1 
Tamb 2 
Anvils
Mini Anvil 
Cym Hi
Cym Lo
Cym Med
Mark Tree
Piatti 
Rain sheet
Rivet Cym
Tam Tam 
Wind Gong
z Trash Metals
Brake Drum 1 
Brake Drum 2 
Pan Hits 
Scaf Pole 1
Scaf Pole 2 
Spring Coil 
TrashCan Hits 
Claves
Temple Blocks
WoodBlocks 

CINEPERC both CORE & PRO
Bass Drums 1
Bass Drums 2
Concert Toms
Glockenspiel
Gongs – TamTam
Orchestral Cymbals-Bowed
Orchestral Cymbals
Snares: Concert, Piccolo, Popcorn
Snares: Tenor/Field, Military, Metal
Tambourines
Timpani
Triangles, Mark Tree
Tubular Bells
Xylophone
Bell Tree, Sleigh Bells, BrakeDrum,
Anvil, CowBells
Car Horns, Lions Roars, Spring Drums
Celeste
Crotales
Drum Kit
Flexatone
Glass Marimba
Computer Keyboard and Mouse
Marimba
TMGM Tubular Bells
Octoban
Orchestral Shakers
Ratchet, Vibraslap, Sandblocks
Roto Toms
Sticks and Tickies
Temple Blocks
Typewriter
Vibraphone
Waterphone – Normal
Waterphone – Water
Whistles: Train, Siren, Slide
Wood Block, Castanets, Slap Sticks



So now the lists don't look that different. Additionally these lists do not mention RR, velocity layers and other very vital things. 

I could be wrong, keep in mind I haven't bought these products and to be frank it can be argued i'm talking out of my ass. This is merely what I am perceiving on my corner of the world :D


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## edhamilton (Nov 29, 2012)

*Re: Cinesamples Cineperc Released (all 4 libraries live)*

Gents, FWIW ......

If you had a better discount for the whole bundle (more in line with other devs), I would have purchased.
$100 off a $1400 purchase isn't enough incentive to pull the trigger.

my 2cents


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## mikebarry (Nov 29, 2012)

Subtle price fix


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## Cinesamples (Nov 29, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Nov 29 said:


> Congrats Mike and Mike.



Thanks Jay o-[][]-o


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## ed buller (Nov 29, 2012)

Well done fellows......but no kitchen sink?

E


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## Cinesamples (Nov 30, 2012)

Excited to bring you the usual screencasts and keyboard fumbling next week. 

And looking forward to user demos.

MP


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## jamwerks (Nov 30, 2012)

mikebarry @ Fri Nov 30 said:


> Subtle price fix



Wow, about 25% les than when I went to bed last night !!
Looks like the Core-Pro bundle is in line with the Spitfire, with the CS largely winning in content.

Any docs available with exact content (mallets, etc.)

Congrats guys !! o-[][]-o


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## Synesthesia (Nov 30, 2012)

MaestroRage @ Fri Nov 30 said:


> Sean,
> 
> All i'm really getting from that list is Spitfire has made several dozens of instrument patches unnecessarily whereas this product, like all the other Cine products, utilizes one patch to cover significant ground.



I don't want to post in the CS guys thread to start comparing libs and we wish them huge success all round - but just wanted to point out that the patches are 'all in one' and not separate.

Sounds like a great release guys - can't complain to have two great perc libs in two historic locations!

:D


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## Ganvai (Nov 30, 2012)

Hey Guys, keep cool (except developers of sample libraries, they seem to be very cool so =o ) . The "Vienna Instruments Fanboys" VS "East West Fanboys" war was bad enough. No need to start another.

I understand that you have to compare both libraries but this "My Patchlist is longer than yours" is really not helping at all. These libraries have very different concepts and therefore this comparison does no justice to anyone.

As long as we don't get some information from users that own the two librarys or just some more demos from cineperc, we should return to thank god that we've got two very outstanding libs for percussion 0oD 

And for the cinesample-guys: It really sounds great!


----------



## IFM (Nov 30, 2012)

Now if we could just get those Cinebrass updates...hint hint hint.


----------



## rocking.xmas.man (Nov 30, 2012)

Wow this collection is huge. I'm Shure it was fun to record all this. Anyway on your Site for CinePerc AUX at the bottom there is the crew list of the EPIC module.
it's so great... you sampled a typewriter


----------



## shakuman (Nov 30, 2012)

I have an question, Why did you divide the library into 4 volumes each for 299$! why you don't offer just core and pro version such CB and CW, is there a point to divide the CP library into 4 groups!! :!:


----------



## jamwerks (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm glad they divided into groups. Don't think I'd ever use the Epic or Aux, but $999 is a great price for those who want it all.

Looking forward to a detailed walkthrough !


----------



## fish_hoof (Nov 30, 2012)

shakuman @ 30th November 2012 said:


> I have an question, Why you divided the library into 4 volumes each for 299$! why you don't offer just core and pro version such CB and CW, is there a point to divide the CP library into 4 sections!! :!:



Profit.... :D


----------



## germancomponist (Nov 30, 2012)

Congrats Mike & Mike & team!


----------



## Benji (Nov 30, 2012)

Can we have a demo of the "Harry Potter's celeste" you were talking about a few weeks ago?


----------



## Maestro77 (Nov 30, 2012)

Mikes, these new prices tipped the scales for me. I was excited to pick these up but hesitated when I saw the initial cost. Thanks for adjusting!

Any chance for some kind of graduated discount if purchasing more than one CinePerc library? I see the Core/Pro bundle but it'd be great to be able to choose ANY two or three of the libraries. Something like:

1 CP library: $299
any 2 CP libraries: $549
any 3 CP libraries: $799
all 4 CP libraries: $999

That way we could create our own bundles beyond just Core/Pro. Just a thought. Thanks again!


----------



## germancomponist (Nov 30, 2012)

Maestro77 @ Fri Nov 30 said:


> Mikes, these new prices tipped the scales for me. I was excited to pick these up but hesitated when I saw the initial cost. Thanks for adjusting!
> 
> Any chance for some kind of graduated discount if purchasing more than one CinePerc library? I see the Core/Pro bundle but it'd be great to be able to choose ANY two or three of the libraries. Something like:
> 
> ...



Huh..., how can you suggest them their pricing?

Prices are calculated on all costs etc . and no one else than CineSamples itself are able to calculate it!


----------



## dpasdernick (Nov 30, 2012)

Pietro @ Fri Nov 23 said:


> Aren't there enough percussion libraries out there? Nope.
> 
> - Piotr



Piotr,

Sometimes I think there are too many but redundant doesn't seem to be a word in a sample delvelopers vocabulary.  It's always great to have choices and technology does keep evolving. I just can't afford to buy them all. :(


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## jamwerks (Nov 30, 2012)

Looks like Maestro has a good idea there. And the "price adjustments" just a few hours after launch shows that CS probably consider all worthy input !


----------



## organix (Nov 30, 2012)

Good work Cinesamples Team. Sounds really good and as always with a very flexible mixing concept.  

To split them up on 4 different parts is a nice idea. 

My only criticism is the price tag. In my opinion the Epic and Aux isn't the same worth as Core. 

This will be the first phase in the CineXXX series which I don't buy right after release. I can't explain, but I'm yet not ready to pay for percussions more money as for brass and winds. Sorry guys.


----------



## ed buller (Nov 30, 2012)

"My only criticism is the price tag. In my opinion the Epic and Aux isn't the same worth as Core. "




A fair point . Why are parts 3 and 4 so expensive considering their size?

E


----------



## jcs88 (Nov 30, 2012)

A grand for a percussion library? Ouch!


----------



## gsilbers (Nov 30, 2012)

ed buller @ Fri Nov 30 said:


> "My only criticism is the price tag. In my opinion the Epic and Aux isn't the same worth as Core. "
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Unions?


----------



## shakuman (Nov 30, 2012)

organix @ Fri Nov 30 said:


> This will be the first phase in the CineXXX series which I don't buy right after release. I can't explain, but I'm yet not ready to pay for percussions more money as for brass and winds. Sorry guys.



+1 o/~


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## Cinesamples (Nov 30, 2012)

That's why we broke it up for you. 

For $299 you can have a percussion library that accomplishes the bulk of the orchestra palette in CinePerc CORE (50GB library).

Personally I think we're slightly crazy... 

Mike P


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## SamiMatar (Nov 30, 2012)

Great sound, congrats Cinesampls! But I can't seem to justify the price to myself, and I typically don't need much convincing with libraries.


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## SeanM1960 (Nov 30, 2012)

Ah jeezuz - the _I want something for nothing_ crowd is here. Waaah - it's too much money! Waaaah - I cant afford it!!!! Waaahhh - you should have priced it like this!!!

You act as though it costs next to nothing to make these libraires. Don't you realize what you are getting? Some of the best musicians in one of the best rooms with one of the best engineers with some of the best mics and gear - recorded in the same place with the same equipment witht he same engineer where many Hollywood scores are recorded. But you want it on the cheap. Nice.

Guys - this is the same price point as Spitfire Percussion. Howcome nobody complains about the price of that library? 

SFPerc - $560 (after conversion) for 55 GB. CSPerc - $1200 for 112 GB. 

or

SFPerc - $560 for 55 GB. CSPerc Core & Pro - $549 for 80 GB

Howcome noone complains about SF pricing?

Yep, it's the _I want something for nothing_ crowd. :roll:


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## jamwerks (Nov 30, 2012)

SeanM1960 @ Fri Nov 30 said:


> SFPerc - $560 for 55 GB. CSPerc Core & Pro - $549 for 80 GB



Interesting....


----------



## Cinesamples (Nov 30, 2012)

Here is the instrument list for the complete CinePerc. Keep in mind most of the instruments have at least one alternate stick/mallet hit, along with a ton of articulations, Round Robins and Velocity Layers...

Concert Snare 
Piccolo Snare 
Tenor Drum/Field Drum 
Military Drum
Metal Snare Drum
Popcorn Snare
Snare Ensemble
Bass Drum 1
Bass Drum 2
Piatti 1
Piatti 2
Piatti 3
Sizzle Cymbal
Suspended Cymbals
Small Suspended Cymbal
Timpani
Timpani FX
Gongs (Tam-Tam)
Small Gongs
Taiko 1
Taiko 2
Shime Daiko 1
Shime Daiko 2
Group Taiko
Metal Surdo
Wood Surdo
Group Surdo
Roto Toms
Octobans
Oil Drums
Metal Ensemble
Hammers on Bolt
Tambourika
Low Ensemble
Concert Toms
Mid Ensemble
Big Ensemble
Mahler Hammers
Claps
Stomps
Snaps
Sticks
Tickies
Brake Drum
Vibraphone 
Marimba 
Crotales 
Glockenspiel/Orchestra Bells 
Xylophone 
Tubular Bells
Low Chimes
Triangles-6 types 
Orchestral Tambourines 1 and 2
Pop Tambourines 1 and 2
Castanets
Wood Blocks
Slapstick
Claves
Ratchet
Jawbone
Vibraslap
Flexatone
Mark Trees 1, 2, and 3
Tines (Magic Wands)
Finger Cymbals
Cowbells 1, 2, 3, and 4
Sand Blocks
Guiro
Sleigh Bells
Agogo Bells
Buckets in Pianos
Typewriter
Computer Keyboard and Mouse
Flower Pots
Subway Buckets
Water Cooler Buckets
Shakers:
3 Chamber
Egg Shakers
2 Chamber Soft Shakers
Caxixi
One Shot Shakers
Small Metal Can Shakers
Plastic Pears Shaker
Large Metal Torpedo
Turtle Shells
Ganzrio
Meinl
Bamboo
Vented Steel Orb
Mini Maracas
African Pod Shakers
Seed Rattle Bunches
Water Jar Shakers
Ankle Seed Shakers
Washboard
Rain Sticks 1, 2, and 3
Car Horns 1 and 2
Wooden Asian Chimes 1, 2, and 3
Fish Bells
Small Flower Chimes
Lids
Bottles
Drum Set (3 snares, 2 HH, 4 Cym, etc)
Celeste
Log Drums
Glass Marimba (2 Mallets)
Tongue Drum (2 Mallets)
Police Whistle
Siren Whistle
Slide Whistle
Train Whistle
Samba Whistle
Small Log Drum
Monkey Stick
Spring
2 Bell Trees
Bongos
Congas
Timbales
Djembe
Rihk
Circular Bells
Waterphone
Doumbek
Udu
Cajon
Large Frame Drum
Small Frame Drum
Daf
Bodhran
Djun Djun
Talking Drum
Gong Drum
Whale Drum
Darabuka
3 Wood Blocks
Temple Blocks
Crickets
Ocean Drum
Shakeres
Anklungs
Bell Tree
Spring Drum
Lion’s Roar
Cuica
Cabasa
Small Cabasa
Wooden Cricket
Monkey Stick
Glass Jars


----------



## artinro (Nov 30, 2012)

Really love the sound of the percussion in this room! Any chance you could talk in some more detail about the level of depth you went into with some of the core orchestral percussion instruments (regarding Dynamic layers and RR)?

Thanks!


----------



## quantum7 (Nov 30, 2012)

jcs88 @ Fri Nov 30 said:


> A grand for a percussion library? Ouch!



Better than the $1300 that is was last night when I went to bed. Still pricey, but it was very generous of the Mikes to lower the price by a good amount. I cannot even imagine how much money and time they spent at Sony getting this project done, not to mention the thousands of hours of editing and scripting. 

I am really looking forward to hearing more demos and will hold off on my percussion purchase until I can seriously compare both Spitfire & Cineperc demos side by side in the coming weeks.

THANKS AGAIN for lowering the price Mikes!!!!  Now I can put Cineperc back into serious consideration.


----------



## gsilbers (Nov 30, 2012)

That's a lot of fukin instruments.

Taiko and all.

Doesn't 8dio charge like $199 for a taiko alone?
Which rocks btw. 

Just wondering how many patches per instrument.
And does the aux expansion have more patches ?


Interesting Cinesamples is the new Vsl of this side of the pond


----------



## Cinesamples (Nov 30, 2012)

Hi gsilbers,

Lots of instruments, but we've done our best to keep the patch lists small. As composers we just like having lots of instruments per patch. For example the Snares has 3 snares in one patch.

For more info on patch lists go here: http://cinesamples.com/products/cineperc

(by the way, the snares alone are about 3 times the size and depth of our old CineSnares - which was $99)

Thanks all!


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 30, 2012)

Huh... what? No Mikes' skulls? Really guys? C'mon!

Seriously, this sets a new bar for perc libraries. Congrafrakinlations!! If I hadn't pulled the gun a few weeks ago, you would have gotten my money today. I wish you many sales and some time off soon. :wink:


----------



## José Herring (Nov 30, 2012)

That's an impressive list of stuff. Looking forward to hearing more.


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## Cinesamples (Nov 30, 2012)

Who would like a free patch to play around with?
We'll release one if there is interest?


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## MichaelL (Nov 30, 2012)

CineSamples @ Fri Nov 30 said:


> \
> For more info on patch lists go here: http://cinesamples.com/products/cineperc
> 
> (by the way, the snares alone are about 3 times the size and depth of our old CineSnares - which was $99)
> ...




Is there an upgrade path from CineSnares? :lol: 


Seriously...congrats guys.

Michael


----------



## Cinesamples (Nov 30, 2012)

Thanks Michael! 

MP


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## reddognoyz (Nov 30, 2012)

yes +1 on free patch


----------



## Marius Masalar (Nov 30, 2012)

A free patch is always fun 

This is such an outstanding project...the video, the sounds, the attention to detail that seems to have gone into everything...hats off across the board.

It's going to be sorely tempting to feed my percussion obsession this winter 

Congratulations to you all on the release!


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## quantum7 (Nov 30, 2012)

+1 free patch.


----------



## hawpri (Nov 30, 2012)

A free patch? Yes, please.


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Nov 30, 2012)

Yup. Free patch is THE way to get a sense of the programming and sound in ones template. Bring it


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## Cinesamples (Nov 30, 2012)

Synesthesia @ Fri Nov 30 said:


> MaestroRage @ Fri Nov 30 said:
> 
> 
> > Sean,
> ...



Cheers Paul!

MP


----------



## rocking.xmas.man (Nov 30, 2012)

Yes please! a free patch. let me guess... the typewriter patch? combined with a competition - who does the funniest mockup of "the typewriter" by Leroy Anderson


----------



## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 30, 2012)

Love the detailed, clear sound of those samples!

Least interesting element: the kit drum

Will definitely buy it at some point!


----------



## zvenx (Nov 30, 2012)

yeah to the free patch.
rsp


----------



## benmrx (Nov 30, 2012)

Congrats on this release! I can't imagine how much work and sweat equity went into this project! 



CineSamples @ Fri Nov 30 said:


> For $299 you can have a percussion library that accomplishes the bulk of the orchestra palette in CinePerc CORE (50GB library).
> 
> Personally I think we're slightly crazy...
> 
> Mike P



Personally, I agree! The core library for $300 is a steal. Breaking this up into 4 distinct sections is perfect too. If/when you do CineStrings I can only hope you'll go this route. I kind of wish you would have split up CineWinds into 3 libs with the ethnic instruments as their own package.

To anyone that thinks the expansions are too expensive in relation to the core library....., I argue that you're seeing it backwards. The core library is insanely _cheap_ in comparison.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Dec 1, 2012)

Sounds great guys! This is definitely a must have - just like Spitfire is 

Really great sound.


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## ed buller (Dec 1, 2012)

benmrx @ Fri Nov 30 said:


> Congrats on this release! I can't imagine how much work and sweat equity went into this project!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




it's a fair point. I'm just trying to work out how to tell the kids their christmas present is a large percussion library , that for safe keeping needs to stay on my computer.........

e


----------



## quantum7 (Dec 1, 2012)

ed buller @ Sat Dec 01 said:


> it's a fair point. I'm just trying to work out how to tell the kids their christmas present is a large percussion library , that for safe keeping needs to stay on my computer.........
> 
> e




I might have to do the same: "Honey, look what I got you and the baby for Christmas- percussion samples".


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## noizy (Dec 1, 2012)

a free patch would be great /\~O


----------



## james7275 (Dec 1, 2012)

Has anybody given in and bought one of these yet?... I'm interested in the core library but want to hear a couple user reviews first.


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## dannthr (Dec 1, 2012)

I just want to hear some mic comparisons/instrument walk-throughs--it looks like they leveled up on the mic positions.


----------



## Cinesamples (Dec 2, 2012)

Feel free to visit our facebook page to listen to some of the audio demos. Our Drum Kit demo has some examples of a dry (close Mic) mix and a "Room" Mix. 

Stay tuned to for info on our free patch (I'll give you a hint, it comes from our CORE library)... keep checking our facebook page and our main website for the link...

-SE


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## jamwerks (Dec 2, 2012)

No walk-through ?


----------



## noiseboyuk (Dec 2, 2012)

jamwerks @ Sun Dec 02 said:


> No walk-through ?



Read the thread - coming this week.

Glad the "ouch" comments seem to have vanished. Three hundred bucks for a 50gb percussion library of this quality seems amazing to me. And the combined scope of all four volumes is amazing.


----------



## Cinesamples (Dec 2, 2012)

Hey guys, walkthrough coming. I am in Pensacola, FL this weekend visiting my brother who is in the NAVY. I'll be back on Monday and crank out 4 videos next week.

Thanks for the positive comments.

Standby!

MP


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## quantum7 (Dec 2, 2012)

Enjoy your trip. I am 95% certain that I will be purchasing the Core/Pro bundle.


----------



## jamwerks (Dec 2, 2012)

quantum7 @ Sun Dec 02 said:


> I am 95% certain that I will be purchasing the Core/Pro bundle.



+1 Great deal !!


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## dannthr (Dec 2, 2012)

Wow, your brother is Victor Patti?!


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## Cinesamples (Dec 2, 2012)

Free Military Snare from CinePerc Core (this is one of the 6 snares that come with the library).

Go here: http://cinesamples.com/retail/

Then scroll to the bottom to the freebies section. Just type in your email and get the link.

Hope you like it!


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## Blakus (Dec 2, 2012)

Woah guys, over 1gig of snare samples. Can't wait to try it, downloading now. Very generous of you thanks!


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 2, 2012)

Tremendous, Mikes and Co. As I posted on FB, this is that "familiar" sound you talked about on CineBrass. I'm definitely getting CinePerc, just umming and ahhing about whether I get some or all of it from the word go really. Audio demos sound sensational.

I'm sure the free snare will sell you lots of copies - wish more companies took this road, you can't beat a bit of the real thing.


----------



## Cinesamples (Dec 3, 2012)

Thanks Guy. I hope the free patch helps. The one thing we haven't been good about is communicating what this library truly is, and the extreme lengths we've gone.

Our goal is not to have this be a library that everyone picks up in the first week, then it tapers off and no one uses it. Rather, we feel we want to set a new standard, not just for percussion, but for the craft of sampling itself. Especially as we continue to sample and add new free content to the library in the coming months and years ahead.

Big plans for this...

M


----------



## kgdrum (Dec 3, 2012)

Thank you M&M and the entire Cinesamples Team for the generous Military Snare Drum samples,this library is on my must buy list when I catch up with some bills!
This looks and sounds like an amazing library, 1 question, i heard the Core demo on your facebook page(it sounds f*kin amazing!) 

Can a user lower the room reverb or general ambiance on this at all?
Thanks
KG




/\~O


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 3, 2012)

kgdrum @ Mon Dec 03 said:


> Thank you M&M and the entire Cinesamples Team for the generous Military Snare Drum samples,this library is on my must buy list when I catch up with some bills!
> This looks and sounds like an amazing library, 1 question, i heard the Core demo on your facebook page(it sounds f*kin amazing!)
> 
> Can a user lower the room reverb or general ambiance on this at all?
> ...



I think you can answer this question to yourself if you test it with the free snare drum... .


----------



## Cinesamples (Dec 3, 2012)

kgdrum @ Mon Dec 03 said:


> Thank you M&M and the entire Cinesamples Team for the generous Military Snare Drum samples,this library is on my must buy list when I catch up with some bills!
> This looks and sounds like an amazing library, 1 question, i heard the Core demo on your facebook page(it sounds f*kin amazing!)
> 
> Can a user lower the room reverb or general ambiance on this at all?
> ...



To answer your question KG, yes. You can use just the Spot and maybe a touch of Overhead to get a nice tight close sound. Also you'll see there are mixer "presets" that you can dial in for quick settings. Try the "Close and Tight" preset.

MP


----------



## Blakus (Dec 3, 2012)

Really like the snare! The variety in sound possible is amazing. I can't help but feel that if you guys did CineBrass all over again now, with all you have learned, it would blow some minds  

Congrats guys!


----------



## Cinesamples (Dec 3, 2012)

Blakus @ Mon Dec 03 said:


> Really like the snare! The variety in sound possible is amazing. I can't help but feel that if you guys did CineBrass all over again now, with all you have learned, it would blow some minds
> 
> Congrats guys!



Thanks!! Agreed, and that's why we have done just that! We went back and recorded a bunch of new stuff for CineBrass CORE and PRO. 

o=< 
/\~O


----------



## Freesamples (Dec 3, 2012)

Cinesamples, I'm a big fan of this really advanced programming you have in your libraries. But the more you releases the more disappointed I becoming. Just downloaded your FREE snare a few hours ago. What a horrible tails. I can hear how much noise there was and how hard you've processed tracking with RX (or what tool do you use). The snare wires sound really bad in all ambient mic tails. And these artifacts from noise reduction, they kills the whole library sound :(


----------



## noiseboyuk (Dec 3, 2012)

Maybe my ears are shot. It sounds superb to me.


----------



## hawpri (Dec 3, 2012)

Thanks for sharing this!

I noticed there's no 'JW' preset. Is that a cinewinds feature only?


----------



## quantum7 (Dec 3, 2012)

After hearing the freebie I will be purchasing. Nice! :D Orchestral percussion was the only part of my sample collection that was lacking.


----------



## dannthr (Dec 3, 2012)

Freesamples @ Mon Dec 03 said:


> Cinesamples, I'm a big fan of this really advanced programming you have in your libraries. But the more you releases the more disappointed I becoming. Just downloaded your FREE snare a few hours ago. What a horrible tails. I can hear how much noise there was and how hard you've processed tracking with RX (or what tool do you use). The snare wires sound really bad in all ambient mic tails. And these artifacts from noise reduction, they kills the whole library sound :(



When I first loaded it up, I was a little worried about this--felt like I was hearing some kind of distortion on the tails.

But when I switched the snare off, the Overheads and the Room mics sound really great and what I was hearing seemed like it either cleared up OR it felt like part of the snare. I'm a big fan of really clean and deep stereo recordings and I think those mics really sound solid.

I think more than the other libraries, the mic positions here are just spectacular--there's a lot to choose from and there's a lot to work with--from the boomy, tight, to clean and deep, and pushed back.

Noise reduction is no trivial matter on libraries like this, and I've accepted that we're not going to get perfect, but this seems extremely usable to me, and that's the most important factor.

To be fair to M&M and crew, noise reduction is something that takes a lot of time, you have to experiment, make subtle gestures, and sit with it, walk away, come back, and it sounds like these guys just didn't have that kind of time in their development cycle. On a library this big, you're not going to nail noise reduction in half a year. It's really a QA and iterative heavy process.

But to me, those Overheads are gorgeous. Great imaging, great detail.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Dec 3, 2012)

Just another perspective on this. I first heard a CinePerc demo on my laptop speakers while I was distracted doing something else (very heavy workload away from home). It immediately sounded sensational. While of course I realise that detail is important - and to my ears it sounds great there too when I did finally hear it on real monitors - I do find Freesamples comments to be a case of not seeing the wood for the trees. The overall sound, the space, the impact is something special, and that comes over on the crappiest monitors in the world.


----------



## Freesamples (Dec 3, 2012)

dannthr @ Mon Dec 03 said:


> But when I switched the snare off, the Overheads and the Room mics sound really great and what I was hearing seemed like it either cleared up OR it felt like part of the snare. I'm a big fan of really clean and deep stereo recordings and I think those mics really sound solid.



When snares is OFF - RX does not produce artifacts and does its job really well. But when snares is ON - RX can't give any good results, because there is no way for this, or any other tool to separate mics+preamps+other noise from wires rattle. As result - you getting those horrible artifacts (sounds like someone bowing different metal things somewhere far from you, but you can hear it and it's annoying you). RX can be very helpful on something like piano or vibraphone, but on percussion... Percussion is a noise. If you wanna less noisy samples when you have to choose gear more carefully and setup it more carefully. The thing is - I would pay even $2000 for such a huge library recorded in that amazing room. But I wanna hi quality samples. What I hear in this library it's low quality for me. Does not matter if it's recorded on $10k mics and expensive console. Too me it sounds like great room + great instruments + great mics + bad preamps + bad ADC + tons of RX.


----------



## Freesamples (Dec 3, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> The overall sound, the space, the impact is something special, and that comes over on the crappiest monitors in the world.



One of my friends has a big movie theater and every time I get a chance to listen my music in that big room with all its acoustic systems I go there and listen my mixes. Believe me, all that stuff like these artifacts is totally audible in such environment. Of course you will not hear it on tv or laptop, but this will not solve the problem.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Dec 4, 2012)

Freesamples @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> noiseboyuk @ Tue Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> > The overall sound, the space, the impact is something special, and that comes over on the crappiest monitors in the world.
> ...



Everyone is entitled to their view of course, but your posts smack of wild hyperbole to me. I'm not saying you can't hear anything, I've no doubt that your ears have become highly sensitive to the effects you are describing - I think you're just overdoing it. Although I have nearly 30 years experience in broadcasting, I don't have such detailed specific experience in noise reduction I'll admit. But when I load that patch on my system - RME Babyface / Adam A7X monitors - I can't hear anything that is unusual in terms of processing. I just hear a great sound.

Now, as a TV composer esepcially, my own setup will be better than apporx 99.99% of my audiences. That's why I mention laptops. I need to consider - will it sound good on normal TVs and laptops? Cos that's what my audience will be listening on. CinePerc sounded unusually good on such terrible monitors, which is why I made the wood for the trees comment. This is clearly a highly superior library, and - crucially to me - it has a benefit on the most humble setups.

Again, I've no doubt if you go to a THX movie theatre and your ears have been highly tuned to specific processing artefacts, you might hear something. These are all sample libraries after all, all of which are highly imperfect - a bunch of disparate recordings knitted together to create an illusion. To be honest though - based on the free demo patch, I'd be surprised if even if I was trained to listen to those artefacts I wouldn't care. If I was lucky enough to score a film mixed in 7.1 and shown in a THX certified theatre, the score would still be a part of the whole movie, and I'd be willing to bet the farm that the net results of those artefacts, in context, would be negligable.

I hope I'm not yet completely cloth eared. While others happily listen to soundcloud demos, they always sound dreadful to me. I care about the things I can notice, that I perceive make a difference, and obviously that's a subjective thing. Clearly this is an area in which you are highly tuned, and at once that's a blessing and a curse. What puts me off, however, is the hyperbole.


----------



## mikebarry (Dec 4, 2012)

Dennis Sands has mixed the biggest movies in Hollywood, thats all that needs be said. Don't feed the troll.


----------



## Ganvai (Dec 4, 2012)

mikebarry @ 4th December 2012 said:


> Dennis Sands has mixed the biggest movies in Hollywood, thats all that needs be said. Don't feed the troll.



+1

_Kaboom_ 8)


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## kgdrum (Dec 4, 2012)

Freesamples @ Tue 04 Dec said:


> noiseboyuk @ Tue Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> > The overall sound, the space, the impact is something special, and that comes over on the crappiest monitors in the world.
> ...




lol!
I don't care what you think you hear from 1 small grouping of snare drum samples via soundcloud and feel only you have the wisdom that everyone else so obviously lacks!
You make these critical statements and judgments about an entire library that sounds amazing to all of the uninformed people here that don't have your "golden ears"
Not to get argumentative but I trust Cinesamples to figure this out before releasing this library more than an self anointed anonymous poster who listens to his music in a friends theater.
I've listened to this and the demos on my rig through Focal Twins and various headphones going through a great headphone amp. I have 40 years experience being a drummer/percussioist even listening via soundcloud this library sounds amazing!
I don't think anyone could ever make a critical judgement and blanket statement about a samples quality let alone an entire library via sound cloud.
I trust Cinesamples listened to the entire library more extensively on much higher resolution systems and theaters than anyone here thinks they can imagine it sounds like by listening to a snare drum sample via soundcloud.
Maybe there's flaws in the library but I doubt anyone will know until they actually have the product in a high resolution system without soundcloud.
The demos for me show the musicality,flexibility and how well thought out the design of the library is potentially.


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## Ed (Dec 4, 2012)

Actually I do hear a little bit of noticeable noise reduction artefacts on the release of at least one of the snare tremolos from the free patch, just to make that observation. The rest sound fine to me. 

Great sounding library!!


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## Daniel James (Dec 4, 2012)

I remember the last time I stormed out of the movie theater because of the noise reduction artifacts in the soundtrack. It ruined the entire experience for me.....said no one, ever.

-DJ


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## mark812 (Dec 4, 2012)

Daniel James @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> I remember the last time I stormed out of the movie theater because of the noise reduction artifacts in the soundtrack. It ruined the entire experience for me.....said no one, ever.
> 
> -DJ



:lol:


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## Ed (Dec 4, 2012)

Daniel James @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> I remember the last time I stormed out of the movie theater because of the noise reduction artifacts in the soundtrack. It ruined the entire experience for me.....said no one, ever.



One time I heard a page turn in the music and demanded my money back. Seriously though, I do think the occasional sample like this should be looked at again. In a mix it may not be apparent, but its definitely noticiable naked. I dont agree with the over reaction by Freesamples though


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## jamwerks (Dec 4, 2012)

And to be remembered that it's just a 1.0


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## Ganvai (Dec 4, 2012)

Speaking about Version...

Cinebrass Update? ~o) 






:wink:


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## dannthr (Dec 4, 2012)

mikebarry @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> Dennis Sands has mixed the biggest movies in Hollywood, thats all that needs be said. Don't feed the troll.



Well, hold on there cowboy.


Let's be honest here. Dennis Sands has set up mic positions that are appropriate for how he approaches a mix. 

We get his percussion "sub-mix" levels, but that's not an "in-the-pocket" mix and in all fairness, everything he's presented is SOLO READY.

All of these new CineLibraries need to be mixed by us, and that's the truth. Dennis isn't over our shoulder telling us how to mix the brass with the winds with the percussion and you know what?

There is NO WAY he can do that from a SET UP point of view--and why should we expect that, he's not MIXING our music, he's just giving himself as much to work with as possible during SETUP.

Once you guys have captured, his job is done.

That's NOT Mixing, and Freesamples is NOT talking about mixing.

And for Daniel James and posse, Noise-Reduction DOES matter on a sample library where it DOES NOT matter on a full on recorded score.

NoiseBoyUK: That's just silly, yes, it's important to know how it sounds on a laptop, but you know you don't mix and master only on a laptop, because there are things you can not hear.

Don't get me wrong, I'm praising the library, but I also think that Freesamples has a fair assessment in that you have great mics, great mic positions, I'm not going to say bad pres, but you're using the console pres instead of really fine discrete pres (which almost always sounds better, even if you're rolling an ams neve 88r--though I think that's fair because if this was a full orchestra, you'd be rolling with console pres anyway), and then I would say impatient noise cancellation.

But I will disagree with Freesamples when he says you can't do great noise reduction on a percussion library. It just takes time, and in fairness to M&M, they're more than willing to update content as needed.

If it doesn't work for Freesamples, it's not because he's a troll, it's just that it doesn't work for him (or her). If it works for other people, then that's great, that's all that matters.

It sounds usable to me and, as I said before, I think the Overheads and the Room mics have a great stereo image--really a testament to the exactness of Dennis' Mic Placement.


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## jamwerks (Dec 4, 2012)

I wonder if outboard pre's (Fossell, etc.) might work better for sampling.

Whatever the one's with the lowest noise level might be, even at the expense of the lost "mojo" compared to Neves.


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## Ed (Dec 4, 2012)

I think a more correct statement Mike made should be that it was *engineered* rather than mixed by Sands, although I realise he was referring to the "mix" position. It does make a difference that someone like him or Sean Murphy worked on a product for the same reason it is when they work on a film recording. I think it was Simon or TJ talking about Project Prague years ago that told me a big part of the reason why it sounded so good was because of their sound engineer.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 4, 2012)

One of the great myths is that console mic-pres on a high end console are not as good as boutique mic-pres. They sound different, some are more colored, some more transparent, but for CinePerc, and EW"s perc library when it is released, Dennis Sands and Shawn Murphy are FAR more important to the resultant sound than the console's mic pres,

The late Roger Nichols once brought a $300 Rane MS1b mic -pre to a blind high end boutique mic pre shootout and it consistently scored in the top 3 of the panel's judges. They were shocked when the results were revealed.


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 4, 2012)

I just downloaded the free patch and played around with it a bit. To my ears it sounds very good - maybe I don't know what I should be looking for that makes this sound so terrible... I think this bodes very well for the full library, and I think the flexibility in the mixing is really great.

Regardin the Sands remark, I rolled my eyes for a moment there when reading that. Just because someone "famous" engineers your sample library, doesn't automatically makes it great. In that case, EW's Hollywood series would be the greatest (sounding) thing since sliced bread, and I would argue that it isn't. The same goes here. There are so many valuables that can influence the outcome.

Anyway, I think it sounds great from what I can tell and I am sure I'll dig into at least the core library and the Epic part - not so sure I need the rest.


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## jamwerks (Dec 4, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> One of the great myths is that console mic-pres on a high end console are not as good as boutique mic-pres..



I take it you're refering to my post. The whole point of my statement was to aim at the quietest pre's. I think we all know that the Neve pre's sound pretty good.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 4, 2012)

jamwerks @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Tue Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> > One of the great myths is that console mic-pres on a high end console are not as good as boutique mic-pres..
> ...



Actually more at Dan's post where he wrote "I'm not going to say bad pres, but you're using the console pres instead of really fine discrete pres (which almost always sounds better, even if you're rolling an ams neve 88r--though "

I consider that a...err.. less than wise statement.

OK, I am out, Mike and Mike are not paying me


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## RiffWraith (Dec 4, 2012)

dannthr @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> [...I'm not going to say bad pres, but you're using the console pres instead of really fine discrete pres (which almost always sounds better, even if you're rolling an ams neve 88r....)



Well, hold on there cowboy.  

Not sure where you got that from, but that is not a fair statement. 

Console pres are sometimes not as good as other descrete pres - this is true. But it is most certainly not the rule. Besides, how do you know that the console pres are being used? And if they are, how do you know _what_ they are? Most (not all) Neves were custom made for whatever studio placed an order. That's why you will find different pres in the same model console. How do you know that this desk was not retrofitted with 1073 pres? Or something else? There could be a combination - half of the 96 inputs could be one pre, the other half another pre.


Cheers.


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## Freesamples (Dec 4, 2012)

mikebarry @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> Dennis Sands has mixed the biggest movies in Hollywood, thats all that needs be said. Don't feed the troll.


I bought eight expensive libraries from you and that's how you treat your customer? I don't care about what Dennis Sands has mixed. I need OFFICIAL comments on de-noising in CinePerc library. I hear tons of RX there and I can post examples here so people can hear all these artifacts I'm talking about. You can make fun of me as long as you want, but the fact is that you're a cheater. Instead of making real good recording with proper gear setup that minimizes noise level you make recording with -50-55 dB noise level (on normalized material) and then you put tons of RX on it. It's a cheating. I tell you why. To avoid possible clipping on any instrument you want to record you set preamps to minimum amplification (and keep settings unchanged during whole recording session) so you have peak level around -40-35 dB on most instruments. In digital domain this means that you have really low bit resolution. 1 bit = 6 dB. 6 bit = 36 dB (-36 db is average peak level on your recordings). So if your samples are 24 bit then actual resolution is 18 bit + tons of noise. During sample editing you've increased samples volume in digital domain and processed with RX to remove noise.


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## quantum7 (Dec 4, 2012)

dannthr @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> Dennis isn't over our shoulder telling us how to mix the brass with the winds with the percussion and you know what?



Wait a minute- I thought Dennis's over the shoulder service was included. I better re-think purchasing now.  

I've been composing and recording for over 20 years now and perhaps I am not the most technical person in the world, but I know what sounds good to my ears. The demos sound excellent to me and that is all that matters. Hundreds of blockbuster movies have had soundtracks with lesser quality preamps, rx, etc. and I would bet the farm not one audience member gave a crap.


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 4, 2012)

Daniel James - brilliant!

Dannthr - at the risk of sounding like a 5 year old, YOUR reply is silly. My point is and was - it sounds great on a laptop, and you can tell the difference on a laptop. A very important thing indeed. My point was not that you should be mixing on a laptop. :roll: 

Freesamples - if you are as patronising and rude to developers on their own threads in a commercial announcement section as you have been, I guess you can expect a rise from them. Read Ed's post for how to make a reasoned point on this subject, as opposed to saying, effectively, "it's unusable shit", and by implication "everyone else is deaf". (not really hyperbole that either - you did say that the noise reduction on the release trails "kills the whole library sound").


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## germancomponist (Dec 4, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> ... My point is and was - it sounds great on a laptop, and you can tell the difference on a laptop. A very important thing indeed. .. .



Really, Guy? I am not so sure about this.... .


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## Freesamples (Dec 4, 2012)

noiseboyuk, where's I'm rude? My posts are reasonable. I was really disappointed with their denoising politic when I bought CineWinds. I've created ticket, got one reply and then total ignoring. That's what I call rude. But my posts here - they are reasonable. I bet that guys from companies like Spitfire would already commented my posts in normal way in such situation. But posts like "don't feed the troll" is simply unacceptable.


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 4, 2012)

germancomponist @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> noiseboyuk @ Tue Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> > ... My point is and was - it sounds great on a laptop, and you can tell the difference on a laptop. A very important thing indeed. .. .
> ...



Why is this not important? My work is in TV. Much of this gets watched online, on the BBC iPlayer. Much of that will be watched on a laptop. Like it or not, that's my reality. So if a library sounds good on a laptop... that's a good thing to me. Not sure why it's controversial?


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## germancomponist (Dec 4, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> germancomponist @ Tue Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> > noiseboyuk @ Tue Dec 04 said:
> ...



Which frequency range has the laptop speakers? 

It is always good to have a listen of your productions over a laptop speaker, but .... ?


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## Freesamples (Dec 4, 2012)

Ok. If no one hear noise reduction artifacts and overall bad quality then check my example. Settings: Full Mix and Close - OFF, other mics - ON.

You call that good quality? I'll describe:

Surround mic: a lot of noise, unpleasant artifacts from noise reduction, horrible high freq sibilant impulse hum in right channel

Room mic: a lot of noise, unpleasant artifacts from noise reduction, annoying high freq buzzing hum in right channel

Mid mic: a lot of noise, unpleasant artifacts from noise reduction, loud mid-low freq buzzing hum

OH mic: really loud noise (especially in right channel), unpleasant artifacts from noise reduction

*MODERATOR'S NOTE: In a later post, Freesamples will clarify: "Regarding my example - it's not a full snare hit. It's just tail. I guess I'm not allowed to upload full snare hit. And I've added +18 dB so everyone can hear what I'm talking about. No any processing, or anything else. I can upload a full snare hit and comment it if it's allowed by Cinesamples License Agreement."*


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## George Caplan (Dec 4, 2012)

Freesamples @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> noiseboyuk, where's I'm rude? My posts are reasonable. I was really disappointed with their denoising politic when I bought CineWinds. I've created ticket, got one reply and then total ignoring. That's what I call rude. But my posts here - they are reasonable. I bet that guys from companies like Spitfire would already commented my posts in normal way in such situation. But posts like "don't feed the troll" is simply unacceptable.



i agree. you should be allowed a point of view and not vilified in this way.


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## Cinesamples (Dec 4, 2012)

Freesamples @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> noiseboyuk, where's I'm rude? My posts are reasonable. I was really disappointed with their denoising politic when I bought CineWinds. I've created ticket, got one reply and then total ignoring. That's what I call rude. But my posts here - they are reasonable. I bet that guys from companies like Spitfire would already commented my posts in normal way in such situation. But posts like "don't feed the troll" is simply unacceptable.



Freesamples, I sent you a PM. Customer service is number 1 priority for us, so when I hear this, we must fix it.

We don't mind your opinion, that is welcome, but you do seem very upset for some reason? Perhaps we totally screwed something up? Send me a message.

Michael Patti
[email protected]


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 4, 2012)

Freesamples @ Tue Dec 04 said:


> Ok. If no one hear noise reduction artifacts and overall bad quality then check my example. Settings: Full Mix and Close - OFF, other mics - ON.
> 
> You call that good quality? I'll describe:
> 
> ...



I agree, that IS bizarre - and sounds nothing whatsoever like what I'm listening too! Never mind the tails, the entire sound is different, the timbre. Tonally I have to tune my patch down -4 to match, but even then there's heaps of EQ and other nasties on your example. Also in your zip there is only one (clipped) snare hit, whereas you are descrbing multiple mic positions, so I'm a little confused.

In a bit I'll post what I'm getting, but something seems very wrong here... which perhaps is causing the friction and misunderstanding?

EDIT - here's the link https://www.box.com/s/8qwp2m08r01n7s9cb7lk . Mikes - with your permission I'll just keep this live for a day or so because it is exposed samples, but any copyright issues I'll take it down immediately. I've played each mic position in turn at the same velocity - close, OH, mid, room, surround, mix. Finally, standing out like a sore thumb, is the mp3 of the zip that Freesamples posted.
 
I've no idea what's going on with your setup, Free, but clearly something...


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## synthetic (Dec 5, 2012)

Guy, might want to turn the snares off for a 1:1 comparison. (Did everyone notice you can turn those off with a keyswitch? Pretty cool.) 

But I agree that there's nothing wrong with the sound of this library. I played with the free snare for an hour in surround last night and it sounded incredible. This library is next on my list, right after my wife's Christmas present.


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 5, 2012)

synthetic @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> Guy, might want to turn the snares off for a 1:1 comparison. (Did everyone notice you can turn those off with a keyswitch? Pretty cool.)
> 
> But I agree that there's nothing wrong with the sound of this library. I played with the free snare for an hour in surround last night and it sounded incredible. This library is next on my list, right after my wife's Christmas present.



Freesamples' snare sounded so different to both snares on and off I didn't really know which to go for! I think it's sort of a futile exercise to be honest. I'm genuinely perplexed as to what has gone on there though... it's bizarre to be arguing over such tiny imperfections, only to discover some colossol great horror in the setup. I don't know what would cause it though, really don't... I'd have to work damn hard to make CinePerc sound that bad.

Oh, and yes - it was only when I saw the tutorial I realised there were snares off, and CC1 on the rolls. Brill.


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## germancomponist (Dec 5, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> Freesamples' snare sounded so different to both snares on and off I didn't really know which to go for! I think it's sort of a futile exercise to be honest. I'm genuinely perplexed as to what has gone on there though... it's bizarre to be arguing over such tiny imperfections, only to discover some colossol great horror in the setup. I don't know what would cause it though, really don't... I'd have to work damn hard to make CinePerc sound that bad.



Maybe it is a buffer size thing in his Kontakt Sampler, or something like this..?

Easy to test: Freesamples, open the Kontakt editor, select a sample in the group - Mapping editor and open the Sample-editor. Hit the "play" button and listen.


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## jamwerks (Dec 5, 2012)

synthetic @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> This library is next on my list, right after my wife's Christmas present.



For a 1.0, I'd be very surprised if there weren't even a lot more needed fixed.

As for Xmas, two birds with one stone, buy her the CinePerc bundle ! If she loves you, she'll love it !! :mrgreen:


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## mikebarry (Dec 5, 2012)

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6PJbWuqpm_7NVJXM0h1MGVaMm8 (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6PJbW ... 0h1MGVaMm8)

Here is a video response to said issue:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 5, 2012)

Well, it looks like Mr. Negative aka freesamples has finally hit a home run! Now everybody's paying attention to him, devs are having to put up a video, etc. 

Everyone has freedom of speech here at VI-C, but that doesn't mean that a member can say just about anything without backing it up in a substantial way (not with a single sample). So, until a bunch of other posters chime in with exactly the same issue, I for one will not even *think* about this poster's 'problem'. I will, however, download and play/use the free snare on a bunch of tracks.

Oh, and if you're wondering how I came up with the Mr. Negative moniker, just look up previous posts by freesamples. There's a pattern of :evil: :evil: :evil: to be found... clearly, someone needs a lot of attention.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 5, 2012)

It doesn't even sound like the same sample in the Mikes' video.


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## radec (Dec 5, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> So, until a bunch of other posters chime in with exactly the same issue, I for one will not even *think* about this poster's 'problem'.


not saying he's right just saying no need to be rude to the guy.


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## kgdrum (Dec 5, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed 05 Dec said:


> Well, it looks like Mr. Negative aka freesamples has finally hit a home run! Now everybody's paying attention, devs are having to put up a video, etc.
> 
> Everyone has freedom of speech here at VI-C, but that doesn't mean that a member can say just about anything without backing it up. So, until a bunch of other posters chime in with exactly the same issue, I for one will not even *think* about this poster's 'problem'. I will, however, download and play/use the free snare on a bunch of tracks.
> 
> Oh, and if you're wondering how I came up with the Mr. Negative moniker, just look up previous post by freesamples. There's a pattern of :evil: :evil: :evil: to be found...



When I read his post the other day and felt it was way over the top with hostility,negativity and strange assertions,before I posted a response I did look up FreeSamples previous posts and noticed the same thing.
That's why I uncharacteristically addressed his lame assertions as I did earlier in the thread.
Negative harsh baseless assertions that doesn't pass the "smell test".


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## Cinesamples (Dec 5, 2012)

Walkthrough of CinePerc CORE


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## synthetic (Dec 5, 2012)

I'm guessing that Freesamples has one of those Logic "channel strip" presets on the output with a bunch of multi-band limiting jank going on. 

But he's gotten enough of our attention. Download the free patch for yourself, that noise isn't there.


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## RiffWraith (Dec 5, 2012)

Hey guys, I try and steer clear of these kinds of convos, but everyone should take this as nothing more than an attempt at helping.

First off, I am not sure which sample Freesamples is triggering in his ex. He said he is using the free patch? That's what I have here, and I can't find anything that sounds like that. Maybe a lesser vel layer that I didn't check? In any regard, the noise does exist - with _some _samples. Others it does not. So maybe you guys missed a couple? Wouldn't be a shocker - how many samples are there? 

Here is a .wav to listen to:

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/SPercsnarenz.wav

Notice that the noise is there (very noticeable) in the first three hits, and hardly at all in the 2nd three. The first three hits are E3; the next are E2. Both vel at 127. Mid mics only.

Cheers.


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## radec (Dec 5, 2012)

synthetic @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> But he's gotten enough of our attention. Download the free patch for yourself, that noise isn't there.


the noise is there... just room noise but it is there


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 5, 2012)

I just downloaded the free snare.

*BIG APOLOGY TO FREESAMPLES. I SHOULD NOT HAVE JUDGED HIM SO EASILY.

I SHOULD HAVE TRIED THE FREE SNARE FIRST.

JUST BECAUSE I'M A MOD DOES NOT MEAN THAT I CANNOT BE A QUICK-TEMPERED JERK.

NED EGG-ON-HIS-FACE BOUHALASSA*


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## Freesamples (Dec 5, 2012)

Regarding my example - it's not a full snare hit. It's just tail. I guess I'm not allowed to upload full snare hit. And I've added +18 dB so everyone can hear what I'm talking about. No any processing, or anything else. I can upload a full snare hit and comment it if it's allowed by Cinesamples License Agreement.

My purpose is not to prove that library is bad. My purpose is to get an official comments about de-noising policy. I do not want buy samples processed with RX (or any other denoising software), cuz I hate noise reduction artifacts. I did not find any information about denoising when I was buying CineWinds. When I first heard CineWinds I was shocked by amount of noise and denoising artifacts. This library is unusable for me and no one returns me money. So when I saw this FREE snare from CinePerc I tried it and found same thing. The problem is I really want such precussion library, but I want it to be high quality, or at least I want to know the fact that library was processed with denoising software before I buy it.

PS: for anyone who don't believe me I can upload DAW project.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 5, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> I just downloaded the free snare.
> 
> *BIG APOLOGY TO FREESAMPLES. I SHOULD NOT HAVE JUDGED HIM SO EASILY.
> 
> ...



I think you should suspend yourself from the forum for a week as penance :twisted:


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## BachN4th (Dec 5, 2012)

CPSTMM-C3-1-10-off rr5-F.ncw seems to be very noisy. Another round robin on the same note has a stick click in there with snare hit.

At the risk of making myself look stupid, to me it seems that in the video response to this, no key was never held longer than the actual snare hit, so the noise that follows the hit is never reached. Though by the same token, I've found on the solo horn in cinebrass pro, on the short notes there is lots of extra noise there too, though more organic in nature than electronic - chair squeeks, and mutes dropping, and clicks and whooshes, even some talking. That all takes place after the staccatto note has ended, and thus probably should never be heard, except that it is sometimes audible. Maybe the sample release time is too long, or it's part of the triggered release sample. Perhaps the same thing is happening in this snare example.

I don't know if this is the same thing here or not, and that's why I prefaced my comment the way I did.


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## mikebarry (Dec 5, 2012)

This whole thing is getting blown out of proportion. 32 db of normalization + 18 decibels of user added. =50 decibels of added decibles = noise. 


Here in this zip file I am including, straight out of pro tools, normalized examples of the lowest possible roll and noise floor normalized. Please imagine a drummer, playing as soft as he can about 70 feet from the microphones in a room you could fit 3-4 basketball courts in. 

Sony has a natural collapsing sound and high frequency burst on the tails, you can hear it on any library we've done and sound tracks. Put on Memoirs of a Geisha and listen to it at the same volume - I in fact hear more noise. 

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61082025/Example.zip

We aren't using shitty gear, its just reality of the room. I am getting upset at the general hostility I am reading here over and over, with all the developers. Posting examples with +18 dbs without saying it is that is dishonest and this is the not the first time it has happened. 

For what it is worth here is the loudest hit straight out of pro tools. There is a noticeable envelope sound that sounds digital, but it is just sony. A quasi swoosh, almost digital sounding, from left to right.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61082025/Military%20Snare%20loudest%20Hit%20norm.wav (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61082025/Milit ... 20norm.wav)


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## dannthr (Dec 5, 2012)

I have heard percussion samples denoised properly--but it's NOT EASY. It's very, VERY difficult, and it takes a LONG time to get just right.

It's like Japanese Noh Theater, everything has to be subtle gestures because even the smallest denoise process can have a huge impact on the final outcome--especially when we're talking about a batch process.

This isn't something that can be whipped up in a few months.

It takes a lot of work and it NEEDS a great deal of consistency--there's NO SPOT treating samples.

If there's something that needs to be spot removed from a sample, it should NOT be used, you toss the sample. It's like ADR, you should be picking the best of the best from 3 to 5 takes (yeah expensive but the only way, really).

I believe in noise reduction for percussion libraries because air builds up FAST in a percussion groove. I honestly don't think there's any way around it if you want to have percussion captured in a large space--which it should, because percussion needs to ring out, especially orchestral percussion.

With all of that said, I'm confident in M&M's dedication to their customers and the overall potential of their libraries, and I'm optimistic that they will strive to deliver compelling updates and will continue to optimize and better their products.

Again, as I said before, for me, I think in context it's usable. 

I think that the CineCrew was just enthusiastic about releasing the library before the end of the year and didn't spend as much time as they could have on denoising.


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## mikebarry (Dec 5, 2012)

In no way did we rush this. We have 5 employees working on this for months and months. It wasn't rushed at all in fact it was well behind schedule by a matter of weeks. 

Please everyone listen to the RAW sample - you will hear the thing everyone is calling "bad denoising" it is called SONY scoring. 

I think the point is people are taking these samples and pushing them in the limit of gain - listen to Guy's example and tell me if that is unusable - it is perfectly usable and the room sounds brilliant.


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## mikebarry (Dec 5, 2012)

BachN4th @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> CPSTMM-C3-1-10-off rr5-F.ncw




FWIW this is the softest sample layer in the farthest away microphone - its like 80 feet away. Surrounds are never meant to be layered in at full volume, they are there to provide a touch of wideness, the life of the mix is coming from the tree in all modern recordings.


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## mikebarry (Dec 5, 2012)

Listen to this by the wonderful Shawn Murphy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0bVLqBkwww

(recorded at SONY)

Listen at the same volume you are listening to our stuff at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNzcl2k1NJ8

(recorded at SONY)


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## Freesamples (Dec 5, 2012)

mikebarry @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> Posting examples with +18 dbs without saying it is that is dishonest and this is the not the first time it has happened.



Really? Then maybe posting "don't feed the troll" as reaction to my posts is a very nice and gentle way of conversation in your opinion?

So what if I added 18 dB? There is still a lot of room to 0 dB. It's absolutely same to user adding volume on his monitoring controller to hear better this example. I'm saying - I can post a DAW project if you think that my example is not real.


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 5, 2012)

RiffWraith @ Thu Dec 06 said:


> Hey guys, I try and steer clear of these kinds of convos, but everyone should take this as nothing more than an attempt at helping.
> 
> First off, I am not sure which sample Freesamples is triggering in his ex. He said he is using the free patch? That's what I have here, and I can't find anything that sounds like that. Maybe a lesser vel layer that I didn't check? In any regard, the noise does exist - with _some _samples. Others it does not. So maybe you guys missed a couple? Wouldn't be a shocker - how many samples are there?
> 
> ...



I don't really know what I'm listening too there, Jeff. I hear a difference in the tails, sure. But I don't really hear anything odd of off - it sorta sounds like two slightly different hits that excite the room differently to be honest - the first three have a higher hf component in the tail. Nothing screams "processing" to me (as someone who hasn't spent a life analysing RX, admittedly).

So meanwhile, Freesamples' sample is not really a sample at all - just release trails boosted by 18db. Even there - is this just a truncated sample then boosted? However it is achieved it is an absurd technical exercise that has no bearing on real world use. No-one has been able to recreate anything that sounds like it. Why are we all wasting hours of our lives, with developers posting videos for gawd's sakes, on something artificial that no-one can even reproduce?

Free, you obviously have strong, angry ideological issues about noise processing in sample libraries. Personally I couldn't possibly care less about what methods were used, all I care about is the end result. The end result, to almost everyone here it seems, is that it sounds stellar. A few have said that under careful listening they think they hear something on odd on a few samples. This is a world away from your bold ascertation in your first post on this that the library is "ruined" because of it. And to make your point, you've massively boosted a worst possible case scenario without even telling anyone what you've done.

I made a comment several pages ago that Freesamples can't see the wood for the trees, and that sounds more relevant to me than ever. Listen to my link again - 6 fine sounding snares on different mics, followed by something recognisable horror from Freesamples. That perfectly illustrates why this is a non-issue. I'm sure if I boosted release tails by 18db and removed the main sample from pretty much all my sample libraries I'd hear some nasties... so what? I'm at once impressed and bewlidered why Cinesamples would post a video to address a non-real world, non-reproducible problem. But Freesamples - you have your answer in the video, this is some processing involved in keeping noise down, so I suggest you forget about CinePerc on ideological grounds and move on with your life. Meanwhile if anyone here has any specific issues of particular samples which sound wrong, I'm sure feeding that back to CS will be helpful all round.

Ned, I don't really see why you have any egg on your face. Do you honestly think the free patch sounds bad?

I'm just really saddened that this terrific release is taken up with such an arcane, pointless discussion. 20 days in one of the premier scoring stages in the world with the best musicians and engineers in the world from a developer working incredibly hard to support working musicians, and all we can do is boost frickin release trails by 18db and whine?

Just as I previewed this post, I've just seen the Mikes' response - I agree with every word. Really sorry that this is taking up your time. 50db of boost is insane, that's mic level to line level (more than that, often). This issue is right up there with people who solder speaker cables to the PCBs of their amps to avoid signal degradation in connectors - it's borderline insanity.


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 5, 2012)

Freesamples @ Thu Dec 06 said:


> mikebarry @ Wed Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Posting examples with +18 dbs without saying it is that is dishonest and this is the not the first time it has happened.
> ...



Good lord I gotta leave this thread. It's making me as angry as Freesamples. Of COURSE it matters that you added 18db. That's 6x louder than normal use.

Ironically, this to me is a perfect example of trolling - ignoring all cogent arguments that have been put forward and just loudly restating your own discredited position. Well, I'm done here before I say something that gets me banned.

EDIT - but as a passing shot, here's just one reason why your post was dishonest. You never said it was a) just a release sample and b) boosted by 18db. So someone could have downloaded that and, not unreasonably, concluded that that is what a CinePerc snare really sounds like and written the library off, causing loss of income to CS. It's bloody disgraceful that you don't even amend that post or apologise. Gawd I'm getting more angry, it's contagious, gotta leave.


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## mikebarry (Dec 5, 2012)

Freesamples I think I am done with you. If you want wisdom listen to level headed guy. If the top gear and stage and instruments in LA isn't good enough for you then I can't help you, you don't have a sense of actual physical acoustics.


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## Freesamples (Dec 5, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> Good lord I gotta leave this thread. It's making me as angry as Freesamples. Of COURSE it matters that you added 18db. That's 6x louder than normal use.



And what? It changes the character of noise, or adds more artifacts from noise reduction? It's JUST louder. If you think in other way, then try to learn something about digital audio.

Once again - I CAN POST DAW PROJECT.


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 5, 2012)

Freesamples @ Thu Dec 06 said:


> noiseboyuk @ Wed Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Good lord I gotta leave this thread. It's making me as angry as Freesamples. Of COURSE it matters that you added 18db. That's 6x louder than normal use.
> ...



WHY HAVEN'T I LEFT YET? But Free, why stop there? Boost it by 200db and it will sound really REALLY SHIT! And guess what, it's JUST LOUDER!!!!

Am now backing away from the computer....


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 5, 2012)

Please stop picking on freesamples.


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## Freesamples (Dec 5, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> WHY HAVEN'T I LEFT YET? But Free, why stop there? Boost it by 200db and it will sound really REALLY SHIT! And guess what, it's JUST LOUDER!!!!



And you talking about trolling! Once again - it's doesn't matter how much volume I've added as long as there is room before 0 dB.

All I see after my posts is trolling and no one ask for DAW PROJECT.

PS: I go home from my studio now. Tomorrow I'll upload daw project and will leave this forum. I thought it's a place there professional people exchanging experience and help people who need help. I was wrong.


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## BachN4th (Dec 5, 2012)

I do want to ask a rather insensitive question, and I apologize - but for me this is a big deal.

Is the room responsible for the snare roll dropping out for a fraction of a second on the lowest velocity? I noticed this when I was testing out the demo patch, and then you highlighted it a few posts ago. Or is it player error that wasn't noticed as part of QA? Or, alternatively, deemed good enough.

*edit* - And let me add in here, hopefully before you see it. I know that NOBODY is going to release a completely perfect sample library. Human players are imperfect, and we embrace those imperfections as humanity in music by live players - so much that we sometimes have to consciously add imperfections to sampled music to create an illusion of reality.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 5, 2012)

FWIW, this forum is the ultimate beta testing environment, not just friends who shake your hand, say 'That's great!', 'cause they re$pect you. It's an extraordinary resource, filled with experienced users, many with great ears. Don't bite the hand that feeds.

(going to bed, be nice, friends)


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## mikebarry (Dec 5, 2012)

BachN4th @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> I do want to ask a rather insensitive question, and I apologize - but for me this is a big deal.
> 
> Is the room responsible for the snare roll dropping out for a fraction of a second on the lowest velocity? I noticed this when I was testing out the demo patch, and then you highlighted it a few posts ago. Or is it player error that wasn't noticed as part of QA? Or, alternatively, deemed good enough.




Its the performance and natural of drummers.


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## BachN4th (Dec 5, 2012)

mikebarry @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> BachN4th @ Wed Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> > CPSTMM-C3-1-10-off rr5-F.ncw
> ...



Thanks, this makes sense -- and I had no idea that was from the surround mics.

Also, I'm very much looking forward to the Cinebrass Pro updates, especially the mic setting presets, because as I just pointed out - I am sometimes a little clueless.


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## quantum7 (Dec 5, 2012)

I recently purchased Cineperc. I haven't finished downloading it all yet, but from what I have played so far the thing sounds downright brilliant. Very clean sounding to my ears. Regardless whether Freesamples has a valid complaint, IMHO his original post was unprofessional and I wouldn't blame any developer who has spent many months of hard work and money being a little defensive in response to that. I do not know why some people just do not that realize that treating others professionally and with respect always yields more positive results than the alternative. Hopefully Freesamples is just having a bad day and didn't mean to come across that way.


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## gregjazz (Dec 5, 2012)

Hey guys,

As you might know, I was responsible for the scripting in CinePerc. While I wasn't involved with the actual samples, etc., I'm hoping that I can shed a little light on the production of these libraries.

With so many samples it's not surprising that some stick clicks and other stage noises made it into the release tails for the samples. Although the guys went through the samples and fixed a lot of that stuff, some of those noises went by unnoticed (probably due to the sheer amount of samples in the library). We should be able to correct those remaining samples to release some sort of hotfix/update.

Something about these samples that I don't think has been mentioned yet is that all the samples are normalized. In addition to that, we tweaked the general volumes of each mic channel to make everything even. The main purpose of this was to make it so when you load up a mic, you're not constantly having to adjust the global volume of the instrument.

Unfortunately the side effect of this is that the surround mic, for example, is a lot louder than it is naturally. That means that the signal to noise ratio is more noticeable, especially when you start playing multiple samples at the same time.

Another noise that people have mentioned is the low hum/rumble. We opted to leave this in the samples rather than editing it out at a sample level, but turn on the hipass effect (which is in the "settings" page in CinePerc) by default in order to filter out the hum/rumble on an instrument level. Denoising is always a tricky matter, but in this case, we opted to leave the real-time hipass filter on by default to give the user more control over that element.

Anyway, if any of you have any questions, I'd be happy to help to the best of my ability!


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## maest (Dec 5, 2012)

Hi All,

This is Sam Estes - the one you should be yelling at. I have spent the last 10 years de-noising samples using everything from Waves to Izotope RX2. I have worked on some of the largest sample projects on the largest films de-noising some of the most critical content for those films. 

There are some unfortunate things that occur when you de-noise samples that occur AT or BELOW the noise floor. Without getting into technical details like - masking, and HF absorption, etc... There is a FINE line between eating into the sound of the sample tail and noise floor build-up. I would be happy to post a bit more on this and my workflow procedures on attempting a library this large and may do a bit of a video if anyone is interested.

Despite all of my experience, are there some things I could do better? Of course, I am not perfect, nor will I catch everything. I used over 350 different noise floor prints for 130,000+ samples and spent about 2 weeks JUST de-noising at 16 hours a day 6 days a week (192 hours).

So the issue at hand:

The noise floor at Sony with all the gear, with all (but the close) mics are actually louder than the softest velocity of *SOME* our samples (snares are our widest velocity sampled @13 velocities for hits 5xRR, 5 vels for rolls). Could we have removed these samples from the set? - Yes - but from the mixes I have done, and from the people I have worked with - it has often been better to leave these softer velocities in, and mix them in at the appropriate level for the score/music project, if you don't like the noise floor, please use a different velocity (just +10 to your velocity, or use our LIMITER in the settings page). I listen to everything at nominal level in my room at 85db. When I am de-noising, I do normalize up and hear the imperfections that arise when I bump up to EXTREME levels - so FREESAMPLES what you are posting is accurate, there are some artifacts in this particular library that arise from de-noising, but as these imperfections pop up - if it is physically possible, I will address them if they are at issue (and within reason).

As a side note - we specifically added in the HP filter in the settings page, so if the low frequencies are an issue for use, please use these - BTW the MILITARY SNARE (which is a very, very, deep snare) has a fundamental tone at ~140hz, but has a Low Frequency impact that is about 20-30hz that lasts for about 80-200ms (depending on Velocity), so I did not initially do a Low Pass on these based on that info.

One thing I am very upset about is the hostility here, please understand - there are physical limitations that no software at this stage can really take care of, not to mention fatigue factors of one guy trying to get you the best product I can and meet the expectations of the Mike's as well as the 1000's of you who purchase our products. 

SOLUTION:

So here is what I am going to do for this FREE sample patch. I am going to attempt another pass at this patch and rebuild if from scratch for you all. WE are 100% committed to giving you guys the best that WE can give you - even FREE patches... Please expect this up within the next few days - as this will take a bit of time for me to do and get through our server system.

The point is all of our libraries are living, we do invite you let us know of issues (please submit support tickets on our website so we can keep track) - but again, there are some things that are physically impossible to deal with, or some things we have limitations with and made some tough decisions along the way.

So the one thing I ask ALL of you to do first is this:

When using ANY library, put it in a sequence, play with it in a MIX of other patches, find mics and velocities that work for you for what you are trying to achieve. Play it against other libraries, test things out in what would be a nominal environment first. If there are things that are UNUSABLE OR QUESTIONABLE, etc... then please send us support tickets. We want you to get your money's worth and want to make the best product possible.

Sincerely,

Sam Estes


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## dannthr (Dec 6, 2012)

Really awesome post, Sam!

I apologize for my part in making this thread negative, you and Greg have really made great efforts to turn the worst part of this thread into something positive and constructive--and that is to be commendend!

I feel that the VI-Community is populated by discerning and very particular people who are not affraid to voice their opinions, feelings, and experiences--if nothing else, this thread proves we are ALL passionate about these products, the process of creating them, and the joy in using them.

In fairness to everyone who posted criticism, there are plenty of sample products out there that totally miss the mark, and for most of us, we would never bother to post over a bad demo from them--if anything, you guys should take this furious enthusiasm as an indication of how close you guys are to a really perfect product.

(No one laments the soccer goal attempt from half-pitch that totally misses, but the drive down to the goal, those final inches of making it or not--those ignite a passionate response.)


My comments about the gear were in response to Freesamples comments about the gear, but I actually feel that your signal chain was appropriate and in-line with the overall philosophy of the Sony Cine_____ Series, which is "What if I recorded at Sony with a great Engineer like Dennis Sands?"

That's the philosophy and that's what you guys did, you recorded sections and you ran them through the same signal chain we would use if we were fortunate enough to record there.

I don't think alternate gear would serve that philosophy.

Denoising is not easy, and I don't think there's perfect, it's always compromise--it is important, I believe it's absolutely vital for a percussion library--but, as I've said since my first post: This library sounds USABLE to me, I don't feel like it's that bad, especially in context.

I'm excited to hear you guys are dedicated to ensuring a brilliant product and that you'll always endeavor to elevate your libraries.

Personally, I think that's the most important thing to take away from this thread!

Thank you, guys.


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## noiseboyuk (Dec 6, 2012)

Talk about going the extra mile! Sam, I almost don't want you to do it, frankly in my view this thread is undeserving of it. From what I've heard, there is nothing that makes it anything other than terrific in its current state. You were proud of it when you put it up, and so you should have been - and should still be. I understand that you have to work at incredibly soft velocities in a room with noise, and that's how it is. 99 times out of 100, these issues are non-issues for us in a mix anyway. Personally I think you did a good job already. I love HollywoodWinds, but the noise floor on that library really IS high, so I appreciate the time taken to get the right balance (or very close to it) in this current series.

So your offer is waay too kind, and I'd urge you to think carefully about it. Suppose you put in a few more 18 hour days on this one patch, and under clinical non-real-world listening conditions it made a difference to the handful of people who care about such things. You'd have made a rod for your own back - the clamour would be for you to then move on to the other 200 patches! IMO better to be more forensic - if people have any specific issues, then focus on them. I've no doubt that in v1 of a library as large as this, there will be a few bigger issues to catch up on, and I'd personally prefer you priroritsed those, as they arise. Anyway, just my $0.02.

You guys all have my utmost respect, here's hoping this thread and VI control in general take a more positive direction.


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## wqaxsz (Dec 6, 2012)

mikebarry @ Thu Dec 06 said:


> Listen to this by the wonderful Shawn Murphy:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0bVLqBkwww
> 
> ...



hello professional Mike Barry (who successfully sued a pirate),

could you please remove those links you posted if the user "doesn't own the (copy)right to post that music" ?

Thank you, i appreciate your professionalism, concern and respect.

Best regards.


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## Daniel James (Dec 6, 2012)

wqaxsz @ Thu Dec 06 said:


> mikebarry @ Thu Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Listen to this by the wonderful Shawn Murphy:
> ...



"Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, _comment_, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or _research_, is *not* an infringement of copyright.] "

-DJ


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## wqaxsz (Dec 6, 2012)

Thanks Einstein, 

but it still to me is because there is the whole soundtrack and obviously the you tube users don't post it or use it as a comment etcaetera blabla.

You make your ideas and behaviours, you obliged.
Good luck in your world.


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## Daniel James (Dec 6, 2012)

wqaxsz @ Thu Dec 06 said:


> Thanks Einstein,
> 
> but it still to me is because there is the whole soundtrack and obviously the you tube users don't post it or use it as a comment etcaetera blabla.
> 
> ...



Mike linked to those for constructive comparison which is not against copyright. It just seemed like now you are trying to take a personal swipe at them which is completely needless and detracting from the points at hand.

BACK ON TOPIC: People are more than welcome to their opinion on subjects like this (the topic right now being hiss in release tails) and after listening to the examples Mike posted I can clearly hear how loud the noise floor is on those recording....most people dont notice the hiss because they are, like normal people (haha) , listening to the actual music...which is exactly what people will do when you post music using a sample library. If a sample has hiss and you dont like it, EQ it out, use a transient designer to reduce the sustain and add your own reverb tail, when its in a mix do you really notice these things? AGIAN that's all personal opinion and we have gotten to the point now where this thread has turned into "I'm right and you are wrong" so lets all just call it a day and go back to the ORIGINAL point.....this library is awesome.

-DJ


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## Ganvai (Dec 6, 2012)

I checked the snare a few days ago to write a short text for a german forum about it. I was really satisfied with it. It has some good punch, was kicking and the playingoptions have been great. Also the Sound is rich and detailed and the rambling in the low velocitylayers within the swells I think is really cool. It's just more realistic. Also that is the word I would use for the whole instrument.

Everyone who records instruments (does not matter if for samples or for a song) knows that there are variations while playing. It's no big deal for me. I remember some other developers that had so much noises in their libs that they called them a feature.

But the freebie snare does not have this problem. Maybe there is some noise in some samples. Evrey Lib had these problems. I've found some noises in Cinematic Strings 2, in EWQL Symphonic Orchestra, 8dio Adagio Violins and so on! But this doesn't change the fact, that this snare sounds really great and I'm really looking forward to get _Core_-Package. I was very lucky with Cinebrass Core, I'm really excited about CineWinds (I own the full bundle) and I can't wait to get Cineperc.


Let me say one last word: It's okay if you post issues you have with the library, but you should also directly call the developers. They are the ones who can help. And no, a forum where it is known that they postsome words some times is not the right place for this.

Also, this discussion got so big just because a little bit of respect was missing on every site. 

I think right now there is the point where we all should calm down a little bit and come back to a level, where both sides take some benefit from the function of this forum. Also the CineSamples guys have shown that they are willing to improve their library and that very fast. This is also a great user-support!!! o-[][]-o 

Cheers, peace and love,
Jan

PS: Just to take my place on the fanboy-side: I think this library sounds amazing :lol:


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## germancomponist (Dec 6, 2012)

Ganvai @ Thu Dec 06 said:


> I checked the snare a few month ago to write a short text for a german forum about it. I was really satisfied with it.



A few month ago? How did you do this?


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## Ganvai (Dec 6, 2012)

I downloaded it yesterday, stole a really great locking DeLorean and went a few month back, just to see if it works better in the past. ~o) 

But it was the same so I went back to the future... o=? 

Second theory might be that I just did a stupid mistake while writing my post, but that excuse would be so boring. o-[][]-o


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## organix (Dec 6, 2012)

Ganvai @ 6th December said:


> I downloaded it yesterday, stole a really great locking DeLorean and went a few month back, just to see if it works better in the past. ~o)



+1

Oh yes, something to laugh about in this thread is really nice. 
Jan, welcome back to the future. :D


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## The Darris (Dec 6, 2012)

All,

It is sad to see the direction at which this thread went. I have found that the best way to get something fixed, if there is an error, is to work through customer support. If you are nice, and take the time to explain the issue you are having then most devs will be apt to work your case efficiently. But in all honesty, if you hate the way certain libraries sound, then don't buy them and sure as hell don't criticize the people who spent all of their free time in the world trying to produce an product for you. In fact, go and produce your own libraries that way you can only be mad at yourself if it doesn't sound like what you want, hell you can even start your own company too. The Mikes did it on $800. CineSamples works really hard to capture that big "film" music sound with their samples. It won't ever sound like a live recording but it is damn close and for the most part, the audience who will be listening to your music won't notice a fumbled stick click on a rim after a roll, or even papers ruffling around but keep in mind, it is those things that bring a since of humanity to a midi mock-up and these guys know how to do it. 

CineSamples,

Congratulations on CinePerc. It really sounds awesome and as a percussionist, I am happy to see how you laid out the articulations for a lot of the patches. My experience with your company has been nothing but amazing. If I have an issue, it gets fixed, or explained, or even updated and for that I am even more grateful. I can't wait to hear what is in store for us in the near future and I hope you guys continue to thrive. Take care and happy holidays.

-Chris


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## germancomponist (Dec 6, 2012)

I have had time now to experiment with the free snare drum. I first had a look/listen to the dry recordings. 

They are very good recorded to my ears! 

Only out of this samples I could built so many cool (other) drums! Maybe I have time this weekend for a very special experiment?


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## Piano & Strings (Dec 7, 2012)

My first post  might have to buy Kontakt or Komplete so I may begin my Cinesamples adventure! The mix mic concept is such a resource and time saver and to know that the same Hollywood Movie Musicians are at my fingertips is magic! Congratulations on your latest addition. Is there any posibility of CineWinds and CinePerc Core becoming Kontakt Player compatible like CineBrass in the future? I know it probable costs the devloper more, but even if it was just the CORES that were player compatible and the PRO needed Kontakt full, I think it would be a worthy compromise  Keep up the great VI Dev - love the company ethos!

Marc


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## The Darris (Dec 7, 2012)

Marc Filmer @ Fri Dec 07 said:


> Is there any posibility of CineWinds and CinePerc Core becoming Kontakt Player compatible like CineBrass in the future?
> 
> Marc



Marc, honestly, you should really invest in the full version Kontakt. It would be worth it. So many awesomely affordable libraries are on the market that if you are pursuing an orchestral sound, it would be worth having the full version of K5. Keep an eye out on NI's site for discounts around Christmas as well as check out sweetwater.com. They offer free tech support for any products bought through them which is pretty nice in this industry. Good luck and welcome to the forums.


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## Piano & Strings (Dec 7, 2012)

The Darris @ Fri Dec 07 said:


> Marc Filmer @ Fri Dec 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any posibility of CineWinds and CinePerc Core becoming Kontakt Player compatible like CineBrass in the future?
> ...



Thanks for the pointers The Darris  When Komplete 9 hits I'll take the plunge... CinePerc has increased the urgency of owning Kontakt full.


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