# Is There an Update in the Wind?



## wcreed51

The average time between updates since 6/2020 is 135 days. It's been 140 days since the last update in December. I'm starting to check everyday


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## Composer 2021

All I want is a huge improvement to the handwriting detection and for the sample library engine to not have any glitches...


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## muratkayi

Guys, there was an audio transcription update promised LAST YEAR! And not a single piece of communication which says something like "hey sorry, we're a bit late, because..." 
Nothing.

By now, I'm really miffed. Not because the update isn't anywhere to be seen. It's just the general attitude towards the users consumers


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## sundrowned

muratkayi said:


> Guys, there was an audio transcription update promised LAST YEAR! And not a single piece of communication which says something like "hey sorry, we're a bit late, because..."
> Nothing.
> 
> By now, I'm really miffed. Not because the update isn't anywhere to be seen. It's just the general attitude towards the users consumers


The december update said the transcription update would be this year. We still have a long way to go.

That said they've stopped responding to support tickets and generally have gone quiet. I've thought maybe they've been put on the musescore sample library, hence the silence. But who knows. They're an eccentric company.


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## Jett Hitt

Musegroup is trying to push out an update to Musescore, and that update includes a bespoke library. Through the rumor mill, I have heard that DWH recorded that library (and it will be coming to StaffPad as well), and you have to assume that it will use the StaffPad playback engine, since that is why Musegroup bought StaffPad. It would be reasonable to assume that the StaffPad team has been totally focused on the Musescore update.


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## muratkayi

Which is just as well, I just don't like radio silence


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## wcreed51

Yes, but Tantacrul posts every day on Twitter about Musescore and Audacity progress, and StaffPad posts nothing, so I agree that it's a poor attitude towards the user base


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## muratkayi

sundrowned said:


> The december update said the transcription update would be this year.


I seem to have missed that, where does it say that? 
I only remember the "two more updates this year" which was 2021 and the audio transcription being the second one. And then...IIRC...never to be mentioned again


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## Gil

Hello,
There is a beta being currently tested (check some beta users messages in https://www.facebook.com/groups/staffpadusergroup), but no info about any release date.
Regards,
Gil.


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## wcreed51

Just read some comments there, and they're not encouraging.


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## barrychab

I did send them a corrupted score that crashed my staffpad. they said they were now into the next version so they couldnt help with my issue. SOMETHING in the blog would really be nice about coming events. Im also a beta tester for mobile notion and there is much better communication from Presonus.


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## ssnowe

barrychab said:


> I did send them a corrupted score that crashed my staffpad. they said they were now into the next version so they couldnt help with my issue.


Thats just wrong somehow, it wouldn't have taken them much time to take a quick look.

Sort of like saying "We've already taken your monies, nuthin you can do, have a nice day ..."


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## mopsiflopsi

barrychab said:


> I did send them a corrupted score that crashed my staffpad. they said they were now into the next version so they couldnt help with my issue. SOMETHING in the blog would really be nice about coming events. Im also a beta tester for mobile notion and there is much better communication from Presonus.


I know it sucks to hear that, but Apple doesn't make it easy (or possible at all, afaik) to support multiple versions of the same app in the app store.


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## wcreed51

I don't think the app store has any bearing on this...


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## mopsiflopsi

wcreed51 said:


> I don't think the app store has any bearing on this...


What I mean is, if they did find the cause and it required a code update to fix it for @barrychab's version, how are they gonna get the update into his/her hands? All they can do is push out a general update for everyone. And that update may not even be relevant to the latest version anymore due to changes in the code path.

In any case, I'm not arguing that Staffpad is not exceptionally terrible at communication. They are.


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## mopsiflopsi

I'm assuming by "next version" they meant the latest version found in the app store, as opposed to "the version we're gonna release next". If it's the latter, then yeah, that's indefensible.


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## ssnowe

All they had to do was spin it up in whatever version they had now and look at what was corrupted. 

If the newest version can't read older scores then that's a whole different problem. Do you want to throw away your previous scores anytime Staffpad is updated because it can't read your music now? 

I actually ran into that with one older score that was no longer readable by the newest version of Staffpad, wrote it off as a glitch but was a wee bit frustrated when it happened.


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## muratkayi

Yeah they warn about it in the release notes of the last update and I think it's a big deal, your scores not being compatible with newer versions anymore.


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## Mr_Fromage

I had some assistance in fixing scores that wouldn’t open in the version released on iOS a couple of updates ago (when they first brought in audio).

Maybe it depends when and who helps you?


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## Jett Hitt

I don’t quite get what is being said here. All of my scores open. Is it the case that they will no longer when I update to the next version (whenever it is released)?


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## muratkayi

They said that older scores might not open once you install the audio update version. If you haven't encountered any problems so far, you might be lucky.

Which scores are prone to not open correctly and why and what that actually means and how to proceed and so on was never talked about. Just that it might happen.


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## ssnowe

Yep, it happened to me when the audio update hit. As they say, been there, done that, have the tshirt …


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## barrychab

not that it matters but im using windows. Still not the greatest situation. support is very tight lipped about upcoming improvements/features, i get that. i also understand if the team is now deep into the next version and couldnt fix my problem but would have been nice to at least tell me what happened and how to try and avoid it until the update drops...

fyi, i have found that hitting the Home button more often and giving the app a chance to catch up and rest a minute helps. seems to me (with no programming knowledge what so ever) that if i worked too long on a piece, the app started to struggle with things and start to act silly... and then boom.


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## ssnowe

Hitting the home button causes Staffpad to save the file, close it and release the memory it used.


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## barrychab

ssnowe said:


> Hitting the home button causes Staffpad to save the file, close it and release the memory it used.


right


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## brandowalk

barrychab said:


> not that it matters but im using windows. Still not the greatest situation. support is very tight lipped about upcoming improvements/features, i get that. i also understand if the team is now deep into the next version and couldnt fix my problem but would have been nice to at least tell me what happened and how to try and avoid it until the update drops...
> 
> fyi, i have found that hitting the Home button more often and giving the app a chance to catch up and rest a minute helps. seems to me (with no programming knowledge what so ever) that if i worked too long on a piece, the app started to struggle with things and start to act silly... and then boom.


If you have a QWERTY keyboard attached, you can also save by using the standard CTRL-S or Cmd-S on mac.


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## Pseudonym

If something about the document format changes significantly between application versions, such that the newer version cannot open documents created with an older version, then it's incumbent on the developer to provide a document updating utility, at the very least!
This is how it has been with other applications I've used where document formats are incompatible. Barring that, the StaffPad developers should certainly, without reservation, help individual users to fix files that have been corrupted as a result of trying to open them in a newer app version. If the net result is an increase in their product price due to increased labor costs, then so be it. Anything else is unacceptable, and is an indication that this product cannot be taken seriously as something designed for professionals.


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## Jett Hitt

Pseudonym said:


> If something about the document format changes significantly between application versions, such that the newer version cannot open documents created with an older version, then it's incumbent on the developer to provide a document updating utility, at the very least!
> This is how it has been with other applications I've used where document formats are incompatible. Barring that, the StaffPad developers should certainly, without reservation, help individual users to fix files that have been corrupted as a result of trying to open them in a newer app version. If the net result is an increase in their product price due to increased labor costs, then so be it. Anything else is unacceptable, and is an indication that this product cannot be taken seriously as something designed for professionals.


It remains unclear who the developers even are at this point. When DWH was at the helm, emails were regularly responded to and users were regularly helped with files. Since Musegroup took control, it’s been all downhill. They failed to implement the transcription feature with the last update, despite it being featured in an Apple event. We’ve not had any new libraries in over two years, and now London has gone quiet. StaffPad may be toast at this point. It doesn’t look good. *sigh*


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## Pseudonym

Jett Hitt said:


> It remains unclear who the developers even are at this point. When DWH was at the helm, emails were regularly responded to and users were regularly helped with files. Since Musegroup took control, it’s been all downhill. They failed to implement the transcription feature with the last update, despite it being featured in an Apple event. We’ve not had any new libraries in over two years, and now London has gone quiet. StaffPad may be toast at this point. It doesn’t look good. *sigh*


That's unfortunate. At least this is not one of those tales of woe where the application costs $600+ *before* add-ons. (Though I understand that the sample libraries that users purchase for Staffpad are specific to the app and cannot be used with other apps. This could be a significant financial loss for those that purchased many libraries, were StaffPad to be discontinued.)


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## Jett Hitt

Pseudonym said:


> That's unfortunate. At least this is not one of those tales of woe where the application costs $600+ *before* add-ons. (Though I understand that the sample libraries that users purchase for Staffpad are specific to the app and cannot be used with other apps. This could be a significant financial loss for those that purchased many libraries, were StaffPad to be discontinued.)


I own almost all of the libraries, and despite its many flaws, I love StaffPad. But at this point, I couldn't recommend it to anyone. Its future is so uncertain.


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## muratkayi

Jett Hitt said:


> They failed to implement the transcription feature with the last update


I agree with everything you write, unfortunately. Just want to point out that DWH did announce the transcription only for the second of two updates to come for 2021. And that second one never came.

Well. If Staffpad goes down the drain, we have to use it for what it is, now and kind of shrug it off. I absolutely don't have everything they sold on add ons, but it's a few and being invested in a dead end is not a nice feeling.


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## brandowalk

Jett Hitt said:


> When DWH was at the helm, emails were regularly responded to and users were regularly helped with files.


 I thought DWH was still running StaffPad despite the new ownership. Did I miss something?


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## Jett Hitt

brandowalk said:


> I thought DWH was still running StaffPad despite the new ownership. Did I miss something?


I have no idea, but it’s not like him to not reply. It makes me wonder if he’s still there.


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## muratkayi

It would be all kinds of messed up if there wasn't any kind of communication about that if it had happened.

My guess is right now, they are massively involved with things unknown to us they hadn't planned, Possibly nothing that is related to actual software development at all. They basically stopped talking to their customers which means they possibly don't know what to say. The roadmap is delayed at least. 

From the outside this feels like the last time a company abandoned a project. I e-mailed them after a few months of radio silence about everything and they basically replied "development stopped, investor is using the technology in other projects, so long and thanks for all the fish"

What baffles me is that in situations like these noone thinks it might be a good idea to talk to people. It just never occurs to anybody


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## sundrowned

Fwiw I do eventually still get support replies, so there's not complete radio silence. And general update silence is how they've always operated.


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## ZenBYD

wow you guys... I see nothing to suggest it's abandoned? they released a huge update dec/jan which really changed the game for me... then followed it up with 4 or 5 smaller updates and bug fixes... the last point update was a couple of months ago, but it's not that unusual... there is a beta in progress at the moment and Steve at support has been pretty great at getting back to me when I've had general questions. 

I actually really like how they operate... no incessant marketing, no purchasing pressure or spamming... no constant hype... no click-bait trailers or 'pre-announcements' or anything of the sort... but I'm older and I know the constant-free-updates and incessant social media presence thing is kinda expected now.

sorry to hear there are some older scores not opening for people though. I've not had any trouble but hopefully they get you sorted in the end.


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## muratkayi

ZenBYD said:


> no click-bait trailers or 'pre-announcements


Much of this discussion is about the lack of communication after the pre-announcements last year


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## Pseudonym

ZenBYD said:


> ....
> sorry to hear there are some older scores not opening for people though. I've not had any trouble but hopefully they get you sorted in the end.


Yeah, my chief concern was not New features, updates, not even bug fixes (for the problems that have some kind of workaround, anyway), but rather when older scores can't be opened in the newer version without crashes and data loss. THAT must be handled efficiently, and without delay, by the Staffpad customer assistance.


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## Jett Hitt

Pseudonym said:


> Yeah, my chief concern was not New features, updates, not even bug fixes (for the problems that have some kind of workaround, anyway), but rather when older scores can't be opened in the newer version without crashes and data loss. THAT must be handled efficiently, and without delay, by the Staffpad customer assistance.


I wonder if this is a Windows problem? I have been using StaffPad since the first version for iPad, and I don't have any scores that won't open.


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## tc9000

Reminder of that awesome time when I bought Alchemy on ipad with allllllllllll the trimmings and then they nuked the app. Gone. *Poooof* just like that!!!

EDIT: "Alchemy" is included in (the admittedly somewhat excellent) GarageBand, but I swear its it's not as good as the old ipad app!

EDIT 2: Damn - time to give ipad music creation another shot!!! HAHAHAahahaahahahhhhaaaaaaaaaa


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## tc9000

OK I'm skyfalling here guys - ignore me - that happened when Alchemy's owners got aquired by apple and they put their products in their apps for free.


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## wcreed51

ZenBYD said:


> the last point update was a couple of months ago


Actually, almost 6 months ago


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## Pseudonym

FWIW, I haven't had problems opening older scores created by a previous version of SP in the latest version. iPad Pro 2021


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## ssnowe

Jett Hitt said:


> I wonder if this is a Windows problem? I have been using StaffPad since the first version for iPad, and I don't have any scores that won't open.


I had failure to open older files on an ipad. It was a file created in the previous version of Staffpad prior to the newest version.


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## waterman121

For fun, I dug up an old hard drive with SP scores I created in 2016 on an earlier surface pro model and tried opening them in the latest version. Mostly worked, but a bit glitchy. I've had a lot of positive experiences with their support team, esp. in the aftermath of a few buggy updates. They have such a cool product, I hope it continues to be supported!


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## wcreed51

Not showing up for me yet, but...


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## rsg22

wcreed51 said:


> Not showing up for me yet, but...


Wow, timecode? Where are you seeing this? I got nothin on my end...


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## wcreed51

It's on the Discover page, in app.


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## ZenBYD

oh sweet... not showing for me yet either but it sounds like they've added a timecode ruler which would be very handy for me. makes sense now it does audio and probably pre-empts video.

seems like there's more details on the release notes page. looks small, but good.


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## waterman121

Video support would be incredible for scoring purposes. I use the audio staff constantly as it is. BTW isn't there already a "time staff"?


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## rsg22

waterman121 said:


> BTW isn't there already a "time staff"?


There's a tempo staff, I'm assuming they'll have a new staff type specific to timecode.


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## wcreed51

Now in the blog:








The July 2022 Update


StaffPad is a music notation and composition app designed for handwriting music recognition, touch editing, amazing playback, automatic score layout and realtime parts over WiFi. Available in the App Store for iPad and iPadOS, and the Windows Store for Windows 10.




www.staffpad.net


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## muratkayi

And finally a statement

_Some of you may have been wondering where the audio recognition feature we previewed at Apple's WWDC developer event last year has been. It was an unusual break in step for us to preview something that was still under development. Since all our updates are free, and often installed automatically, we want to make sure we take the time to get features right, rather than release something before it's fully baked. With something as cutting edge as audio-to-score, we're keen to make sure the first impression is great and that it's truly useful in every sense of the word. To do that requires a little more time in the oven._


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## Jett Hitt

The Update is live for me in the App Store. However, since I'm in the middle of a big project, I am going to wait until everyone confirms that it is stable.


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## Pseudonym

At the risk of stating the obvious: it's a tremendous relief to know that the developers continue to work on StaffPad improvements and bug-fixes.


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## rsg22

Pseudonym said:


> At the risk of stating the obvious: it's a tremendous relief to know that the developers continue to work on StaffPad improvements and bug-fixes.


Agreed. I just wish they would prioritize some of the more frustrating playback issues in either the engine or specific libraries, but I'm starting to think that may never happen.


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## brandowalk

Jett Hitt said:


> The Update is live for me in the App Store. However, since I'm in the middle of a big project, I am going to wait until everyone confirms that it is stable.


I took the plunge and updated mid-project. I did make a backup copy first. I’m on iOS.

So far is working well and is playing my 3 minute orchestra piece back with no issues except a minor one: It changed my “allegro moderato” tempo defaulted at 120bpm to 140 bpm. Not a big deal.

The new time display is a big welcomed feature. Sure beats me doing this manually! It also paves the way to future video capabilities (fingers crossed).


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## wcreed51

Any improvements in basic functionality like handwriting recognition?


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## clonewar

Nice to see that the blog post was from DWH, since there was a rumor that he had left.

And this line in the blog post is very exciting: “In preparation for video support”

Can’t wait for video support in Staffpad!!


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## gussunkri

Fantastic! I have been looking forward to the time function.


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## Insert.Coin

So now another 4 months before more panic and rumors fly about DWH not caring and leaving and how StaffPad is dead and the world is ending. DWH must be getting a lot of it because of the subtle reminder in his response on how these updates are free.


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## dcoscina

Insert.Coin said:


> So now another 4 months before more panic and rumors fly about DWH not caring and leaving and how StaffPad is dead and the world is ending. DWH must be getting a lot of it because of the subtle reminder in his response on how these updates are free.


To be fair, prior to the acquisition, David was much more transparent about the development of Staffpad. Since ultimate guitar took over, there hasn’t been the same level of communication.


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## Denkii

dcoscina said:


> To be fair, prior to the acquisition, David was much more transparent about the development of Staffpad. Since ultimate guitar took over, there hasn’t been the same level of communication.


Corpo will do that.


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## waterman121

Oh wow, the time staff is pretty interesting to play with, super functional when paired with the tempo mapping feature. I'm scoring a podcast right now and it's so helpful to be able to work specifically with timecodes.

Anyone else a little nervous that video integration will just crash Staffpad a billion times? I'm a huge fan, but it's like 7/10 for stability as is (I'm on a newer Windows Surface Pro model).


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## barrychab

no, i totally trust them to do it correctly. i cant wait. everyone seems to panic when they dont get an update for a while, i know they are working hard to do things correctly. This new update really stabilized staffpad for me on a surface. im thrilled


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