# OT announcement - 17. Dec 2020



## borisb2 (Dec 16, 2020)

So its 17th of december already here in NZ. 😋

Whats that announcement about? Don‘t want to wait anymore


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## Bluemount Score (Dec 16, 2020)

wait, 1 minute left for the 17th in Germany


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## Peter Satera (Dec 16, 2020)

I know, but can't tell you because it's only the 16th here. I'll give you a clue. Its definitely something not to do with being able to overcome your gas.


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## jadedsean (Dec 16, 2020)

I reckon it’s a subscription service, now they have their own fully functional player it’s a NO BRAINER


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## newbreednet (Dec 16, 2020)

from their website: 

Join us at this unique online event on Dec 17, at 10 AM in LA, 7 PM in Berlin.


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## borisb2 (Dec 16, 2020)

newbreednet said:


> 7 PM in Berlin.


I know.. but thats 18th, 7am here in Wellington .. damn


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## newbreednet (Dec 16, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> I know.. but thats 18th, 7am here in Wellington .. damn



that's what you get for being from the future


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## tcb (Dec 16, 2020)

My guess:Free library


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## borisb2 (Dec 16, 2020)

newbreednet said:


> that's what you get for being from the future


Gotta get back in time .. get back Marty 

My guess .. new/more collaborations with United Recording Studios


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## ned3000 (Dec 16, 2020)

jadedsean said:


> I reckon it’s a subscription service, now they have their own fully functional player it’s a NO BRAINER



That does seem consistent with the recent deep discount on the Berlin series if they wanted to squeeze as many sales as possible out of that before allowing subscription access.


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## Casiquire (Dec 16, 2020)

There's no way that they're making all this fuss about just a subscription service for all the same libraries that are already out. I can understand the theory that they're turning SINE into a whole store, but I don't think that alone is of huge interest to me.

Imagine if they're so clever that they made this announcement, watched the speculation, and chose the most popular ideas here to introduce at the event 😆


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## johanholmstrom (Dec 16, 2020)

newbreednet said:


> that's what you get for being from the future


I wonder if there are any cinematic woodwinds in the future...


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## borisb2 (Dec 17, 2020)

johanholmstrom said:


> I wonder if there are any cinematic woodwinds in the future...


Now come to think of it, since NZ is in the future. I could travel back in time to close Australia and grab a set of those  ... that’s so confusing


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## borisb2 (Dec 17, 2020)

Premiere in 3 minutes


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## MaxOctane (Dec 17, 2020)

I hear an orchestra....


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## coprhead6 (Dec 17, 2020)

New FF layers for Berlin Brass!! I was right!!!


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## Raphioli (Dec 17, 2020)

wow.... an additional dynamic layer for Berlin Brass.... wtf


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## coprhead6 (Dec 17, 2020)

And a new string library! I was right again!


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## shponglefan (Dec 17, 2020)

New library announced: Berlin Symphonic Strings


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## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

So it looks like I'm getting Berlin Symphonic Strings. 299€ for those who own Berlin Strings.


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## Raphioli (Dec 17, 2020)

True RR legato and a new legato sampling technique.... wow


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## coprhead6 (Dec 17, 2020)

Not a lot of articulations.. Looks like it's going after CSS and their legato advantage.


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## jneebz (Dec 17, 2020)

I'm really impressed with the air and bite captured in this library, missing from so many other string libraries...amazing. And the legato....geesh sounds incredible.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 17, 2020)

So almost $500 (ON SALE) for a library that has more legatos but otherwise the bog standard articulations? VSL's Synchron Strings Pro sale price was much cheaper and had more content, with a superior player. Waiting for MSS and Hollywood Strings OPUS instead.


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## dcoscina (Dec 17, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> So almost $500 (ON SALE) for a library that has more legatos but otherwise the bog standard articulations? VSL's Synchron Strings Pro sale price was much cheaper and had more content, with a superior player. Waiting for MSS and Hollywood Strings OPUS instead.


I wish I could say I like the sound of the Synchron strings but I really don't. They don't sound very rich to my ears. 

I don't know what MSS is but Hollywood Strings is still a very amazing sounding library as it is.


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## dcoscina (Dec 17, 2020)

jneebz said:


> I'm really impressed with the air and bite captured in this library, missing from so many other string libraries...amazing. And the legato....geesh sounds incredible.


I loved the Mahler 2 quote. That sounded friggin fabulous. The official demo was nice in the mid and low register but the upper violins sounded a little thing to my ears. Then I found out it wasn't sascha who composed it. Kinda wish we could hear BSS in his capable compositional hands.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 17, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> I wish I could say I like the sound of the Synchron strings but I really don't. They don't sound very rich to my ears.
> 
> I don't know what MSS is but Hollywood Strings is still a very amazing sounding library as it is.



Fair - sound is subjective though. BSS doesn't sound _objectively_ better. And I really wonder how much better the legato is going to be compared to CSS - or what HS Opus and MSS have in store.

More a commentary on OT's inflated pricing strategy.


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## Wunderhorn (Dec 17, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Waiting for MSS and Hollywood Strings OPUS instead.



MSS is the horse I'll put my bet on. Though we know neither sound nor pricing. Perhaps I am willing to shell out more benefit of the doubt there because I own the whole LASS shebang and it has served me well.
BTW the new Century Strings has been looking attractive too.


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## jaketanner (Dec 17, 2020)

Holy Shit, just heard the strings...sounds amazing. Beautiful sound and realism...Damn, how many strings do I freakin need!!!


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## Toecutter (Dec 17, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> So almost $500 (ON SALE) for a library that has more legatos but otherwise the bog standard articulations? VSL's Synchron Strings Pro sale price was much cheaper and had more content, with a superior player. Waiting for MSS and Hollywood Strings OPUS instead.


yep, Just realized it's 399 EUROS, way to throw cold water on my plans. Livestream chat was saying $399 :(


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## mcalis (Dec 17, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Holy Shit, just heard the strings...sounds amazing. Beautiful sound and realism...Damn, how many strings do I freakin need!!!


Four. With the exception of basses


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## RogiervG (Dec 17, 2020)

the demos on the website are not that good imho. Actually several sounding very synthy.
The live demo of sound, sounded much better though.. much much better.


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## mcalis (Dec 17, 2020)

On a more serious note, the new sound format, the added ff layer for Berlin Brass, and the new strings library are all exciting developments. The new sound format may not have much of a cool or wow factor, but the implications could be quite big if it really performs as well as they are claiming. Storage space is less of a concern, but lower CPU load is huge for latency.

My one nitpick with the whole show was the moment they claimed their products were volume balanced. I only have Berlin Woodwinds (Revive) and Metropolis Ark 4, but holy hell is BWW unbalanced, both the revive and legacy versions. Heck, I'd go so far as to say it's _the _most unbalanced library I own, but I digress...


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## artinro (Dec 17, 2020)

mcalis said:


> My one nitpick with the whole show was the moment they claimed their products were volume balanced. I only have Berlin Woodwinds (Revive) and Metropolis Ark 4, but holy hell is BWW unbalanced, both the revive and legacy versions. Heck, I'd go so far as to say it's _the _most unbalanced library I own, but I digress...



Totally agree. They might want to revisit that statement. It's.....inaccurate.


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## NoamL (Dec 17, 2020)

What's all this about new dynamic layers for Berlin Brass?

That excites me more than another string library


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## NoamL (Dec 17, 2020)

mcalis said:


> On a more serious note, the new sound format, the added ff layer for Berlin Brass, and the new strings library are all exciting developments. The new sound format may not have much of a cool or wow factor, but the implications could be quite big if it really performs as well as they are claiming. Storage space is less of a concern, but lower CPU load is huge for latency.
> 
> My one nitpick with the whole show was the moment they claimed their products were volume balanced. I only have Berlin Woodwinds (Revive) and Metropolis Ark 4, but holy hell is BWW unbalanced, both the revive and legacy versions. Heck, I'd go so far as to say it's _the _most unbalanced library I own, but I digress...



That's why I'm excited for Abbey Road. They started with an ensemble library and even full orchestra patches. Everything has a reference volume and it slotted into my template like the easiest thing in the world... a template I spent weeks balancing against film score references.


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## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Holy Shit, just heard the strings...sounds amazing. Beautiful sound and realism...Damn, how many strings do I freakin need!!!


All of them, of course.


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## Creoin (Dec 17, 2020)

Summary of what I picked up

New compression format SINE Performance Compression (SPC)
65% compressed, 100% faster than previous (SINEarc)

Collaboration with Berklee College of Music
Library tailored to their curriculum
40% educational discount

Berlin Symphonic Strings
 Large symphonic string sections (18 V1, 16 V2, 14 Va, 12 Vc, 8 B)
 Melodic Legato, longer transitions captured with recorded melodies
 Pattern Legato, 3 RR on legato (ostinatos)
 Rapid Legato, for playable runs
 549 Euro base, 399 Euro introductory price, 299 Euro for owners of Berlin Strings

FF Dynamic Layer for Berlin Brass (free update)
Converting many series to SINE in 2021
Scoring Berlin production service (mockup, orchestration, score preparation, booking musicians and studio, recording, mixing, and mastering), movie promo
SINE Factory: Free subscription service (like LABs, making useful stuff)


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## borisb2 (Dec 17, 2020)

WTF ... Berlin Symphonic Strings, MSS, new HOOPUS, Vista, NSS .. this is killing me... spitfire?


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## jaketanner (Dec 17, 2020)

So if this is better than Berlin strings...seems like it is, why is it so much less? Also, when the hell is SINE going to be AAX?


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> So if this is better than Berlin strings...seems like it is, why is it so much less? Also, when the hell is SINE going to be AAX?



It's not really "better" it's different. Much larger section size, a more focused articulation selection.


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## coprhead6 (Dec 17, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> So if this is better than Berlin strings...seems like it is, why is it so much less? Also, when the hell is SINE going to be AAX?



There are only bread and butter articulations plus a new legato system.
It seems to be a lot like CSS rather than an SSS


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## korruptkey (Dec 17, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> WTF ... Berlin Symphonic Strings, MSS, new HOOPUS, Vista, NSS .. this is killing me... spitfre?



I think you can condense your sentence even more

WTF... BSS, MSS, HOOPUS, Vista, NSS .. FML ... SA?


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## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)

I'm glad I didn't buy Vista.


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## Sovereign (Dec 17, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I'm glad I didn't buy Vista.


I'm now sad I did.


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## NoamL (Dec 17, 2020)

Both this and Vista are passes for me after some very quick listening. Just not ahuge fan of teldex...

In theory you could use Berlin Strings as divisi sections for BSS. Dunno if anyone brought that up yet. I'm in cue conform hell rightnow 

Berlin Strings = 8 / 6 / 5 / 5 / 4

Berlin Symphonic Strings = 18 / 16/ 14 / 12 / 8


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## borisb2 (Dec 17, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> There are only bread and butter articulations plus a new legato system.
> It seems to be a lot like CSS rather than an SSS


actually - I have CSS and Berlin strings ..not sure if I reeally need BSS then? @ChrisSiuMusic also mentioned he is using both layered

.. but I'm sure we will hear BSS soon from you Chris?


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## jaketanner (Dec 17, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> It's not really "better" it's different. Much larger section size, a more focused articulation selection.





coprhead6 said:


> There are only bread and butter articulations plus a new legato system.
> It seems to be a lot like CSS rather than an SSS



But the quality is fantastic...bread and butter articulations is all most really need to get things done. I appreciate the lower cost...unfortunately, i may not be able to take advantage of the sale after BF...Sometimes I feel like these developers don't understand the timing if they want to make sales...although, OT has mostly been for working professionals (money wise), so in the case it doesn't matter...oh well.. LOL


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## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)

I was a bit disappointed that they didn't have more of their Berlin Series converted to SINE format already. I guess I will just have to wait for them to be released next year, hopefully many will be ported to SINE during Q-1 of 2021.


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## Frederick (Dec 17, 2020)

I think I will skip the symphonic strings, because I already have a lot of major flagship string libraries (including Berlin Strings) and with so few articulations I just don't see it getting used a lot.


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## Bman70 (Dec 17, 2020)

Toecutter said:


> yep, Just realized it's 399 EUROS, way to throw cold water on my plans. Livestream chat was saying $399 :(



I love when some developers implement a sensible pricing plan like €399 /$399 / £399. I think Spitfire has done this sometimes. Come on OT


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## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)




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## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 17, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> actually - I have CSS and Berlin strings ..not sure if I reeally need BSS then? @ChrisSiuMusic also mentioned he is using both layered
> 
> .. but I'm sure we will hear BSS soon from you Chris?


Yes I use them layered at the moment. Will do an impressions video of BSS asap!


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## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Yes I use them layered at the moment. Will do an impressions video of BSS asap!



Hi Chris,

Did you get BSS ?


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## novaburst (Dec 17, 2020)

OTs raising the bar again that announcement definitely a big surprise, it really looks like OT spearheading the sample industry

This new String library could be the answer to the Hans Zimmer string library and look at the price, 

Watching the show was a breath of fresh air They really seem to be doing well very innovative,

And they have a big handle on technology 

The Sine player looking very good too , i think its very exciting what OTs have for us in the future


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## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

NoamL said:


> Both this and Vista are passes for me after some very quick listening. Just not ahuge fan of teldex...
> 
> In theory you could use Berlin Strings as divisi sections for BSS. Dunno if anyone brought that up yet. I'm in cue conform hell rightnow
> 
> ...


It had occurred to me that BS might be divisi for BSS. I dislike the room for CSS; also not fond of the sound of Vista, but I like Teldex. It's interesting how these things work.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 17, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> Did you get BSS ?


OT sent me an NFR copy for review.


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## AEF (Dec 17, 2020)

BSS feels like JXL did to me. Not enough articulations, and somewhat an unnatural sound. I prefer OTs older libraries at this point. I have resisted NSS, Vista, Synchron Pro, and Century. All eyes point to MSS now...


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## muk (Dec 17, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> WTF ... Berlin Symphonic Strings, MSS, new HOOPUS, Vista, NSS .. this is killing me... spitfre?



Don't forget Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings.

At the crossgrade price I'm not uninterested. Will listen to the demos and read up about it tomorrow. But it'll have to be verrrry good for me to pick it up. Current abundance of sgring libraries sure doesn't make it easy for developers.


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## FinGael (Dec 17, 2020)

My wallet + new strings coming from every frikkin direction =


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## John R Wilson (Dec 17, 2020)

I'm quite liking the look of these strings!! I don't have any other Orchestral Tools libraries though. The pattern legatos are particularly interesting and looks brilliant.


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## Abdulrahman (Dec 17, 2020)

FinGael said:


> My wallet + new strings coming from every frikkin direction =


LOOOOL!!


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## filipjonathan (Dec 17, 2020)

Ok, these are great but what I would REALLY love is a deeply sampled intimate (DRY!) chamber strings by OT!!!!! @OrchestralTools


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## lettucehat (Dec 17, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I'm glad I didn't buy Vista.



You're glad you didn't buy a library you don't like?


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## Reid Rosefelt (Dec 17, 2020)

Did I miss it, or did nobody mention Sine Factory, their new series of FREE instruments? 

Unfortunately, I heard they couldn't find time in Teldex for these, so they had to make do with Abbey Road.


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## ansthenia (Dec 17, 2020)

Sounds very synthy to me to be completely honest.


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## korruptkey (Dec 17, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> OT sent me an NFR copy for review.



What is NFR? Not for Resale? But they don't even have resale.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 17, 2020)

The disadvantage to not communicating you are dropping a new flagship strings library until three weeks after Black Friday is...I've already spent my sample strings money.


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## ZeroZero (Dec 17, 2020)

artinro said:


> Totally agree. They might want to revisit that statement. It's.....inaccurate.


Yes I was shocked at the OT Woods. Very unbalanced as much as 35 dB difference with my other libraries. Also not very many instruments just the standard ones. I confess I have yet to put them through their paces so I reserve my judgement a bit, though I do feel I got my fingers burnt. My support queries were answered late too and of course no manual. Frankly not impressed by the demos sounded rather plain and a bit synthy. As for smaller file sizes, well yes if your working on todays latops. But things are changing fast, speed is increasing. I rarely get problems these days with my machine. Sorry not impressed here.


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## ansthenia (Dec 17, 2020)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> The disadvantage to not communicating you are dropping a new flagship strings library until three weeks after Black Friday is...I've already spent my sample strings money.


It's so people have no money during the intro offer and have to buy full price later. OT you sneaky geniuses you...


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## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)

lettucehat said:


> You're glad you didn't buy a library you don't like?



I didn't say I didn't like it, I just don't need a legato only library. 

Actually, I'm not a fan of these 'can do one-thing very good 'type of string libraries.


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## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)

I would like OT to add the three new Legato Types they have in BSS to Berlin Strings (SINE) version. 

Oh.. and maybe we need to open a new Orch. Tools Berlin Symphonic Strings Topic on this section of the forum.


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## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

muk said:


> Current abundance of sgring libraries sure doesn't make it easy for developers.


Or users.


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## NoamL (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> It had occurred to me that BS might be divisi for BSS. I dislike the room for CSS; also not fond of the sound of Vista, but I like Teldex. It's interesting how these things work.



we are all spoiled for choice!


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## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

NoamL said:


> we are all spoiled for choice!


Indeed! And the thing is: these are all very good libraries, so deciding what you like and don't like about them feels like such a luxury!


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## ansthenia (Dec 17, 2020)

Man, I hope MSS comes out at least a few days before this intro sale for BSS is over so I can compare them while BSS is still on sale. These library release dates have been a pain in the ass clashing with the end of other library sales these past couple of months haha.


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## lettucehat (Dec 17, 2020)

ansthenia said:


> Man, I hope MSS comes out at least a few days before this intro sale for BSS is over so I can compare them while BSS is still on sale. These library release dates have been a pain in the ass clashing with the end of other library sales these past couple of months haha.



Better yet, maybe this pushes somebody somewhere to make at least one early audio demo of MSS despite their stated intention to release everything at the same time.


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## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)

lettucehat said:


> Better yet, maybe this pushes somebody somewhere to make at least one early audio demo of MSS despite their stated intention to release everything at the same time.



I doubt we will hear any MSS demos before it is released, end of Jan. 2021


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## John Longley (Dec 17, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> So if this is better than Berlin strings...seems like it is, why is it so much less? Also, when the hell is SINE going to be AAX?


I think it has way less arts, and also they don’t want to alienate everybody that bought into it for five years lol


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## Beans (Dec 17, 2020)

ansthenia said:


> Man, I hope MSS comes out at least a few days before this intro sale for BSS is over so I can compare them while BSS is still on sale. These library release dates have been a pain in the ass clashing with the end of other library sales these past couple of months haha.



Do they warrant comparison? They're quite different libraries.


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## ansthenia (Dec 17, 2020)

Beans said:


> Do they warrant comparison? They're quite different libraries.


Of course they do, they have different features but they're still general big string section libraries. It all comes down to the sound, I just need to know what MSS sounds like to decide between them, the extra features are just fluff to me.


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## borisb2 (Dec 17, 2020)

off topic:

listening to Bennys demos with BSS .. what the heck - why is he not in LA? ... soo top notch good orchestration and composition


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## novaburst (Dec 17, 2020)

If you have time please listen to magical forest Demo by OTs BSS, theses string sound very good

Just click the audio demo it is the last track 









Berlin Symphonic Strings


Berlin Symphonic Strings delivers rich, cinematic sound with large sections for creating vivid string arrangements. Captured in situ at the renowned Teldex Scoring Stage, this library extends the sonic possibilities of the Berlin Series while retaining its unparalleled, pristine character...




www.orchestraltools.com


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 17, 2020)

Is the brass update out yet?


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## Alex Niedt (Dec 17, 2020)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Is the brass update out yet?


It is not.

Here's my BSS demo for anyone interested...


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## Casiquire (Dec 17, 2020)

The articulation list is probably small for the sake of expansions lol let's be real. 

I never understand the concept of using a smaller library "as a division section". You need two discrete sections of the same size to pull that off, not one little one and one big one


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## Marsen (Dec 17, 2020)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Is the brass update out yet?


As far as I understood, it will be with the change to SINE. I may be wrong though.


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## borisb2 (Dec 17, 2020)

novaburst said:


> theses string sound very good


it does sound good - but runs sound a bit synthy to my ear.

In all the demos I heard so far I do like everythign from viola and below and dont like anything above - violins (incl runs) tend to sound a bit synthy in the demos .. and for sure nothing I could easily replicate with a blend/mix of HWS, BS, CSS, CS2 and even LASS .. if I wouldnt have all these libraries I guess would instantly buy BSS


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## borisb2 (Dec 17, 2020)

Alex Niedt said:


> It is not.
> 
> Here's my BSS demo for anyone interested...



sounds great .. why is it not on their website?


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## Alex Niedt (Dec 17, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> sounds great .. why is it not on their website?


Thank you! It will be soon. I couldn't get to revisions in time.


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> off topic:
> 
> listening to Bennys demos with BSS .. what the heck - why is he not in LA? ... soo top notch good orchestration and composition



Benny needs to take his balloon riding ass to a studio that appreciates him as much as ViC. 

he's terrific at capturing some of the magic of golden age, something society will miss in a few decades.


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## borisb2 (Dec 17, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> he's terrific at capturing some of the magic of golden age, something society will miss in a few decades.


well said


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## AEF (Dec 17, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> The articulation list is probably small for the sake of expansions lol let's be real.
> 
> I never understand the concept of using a smaller library "as a division section". You need two discrete sections of the same size to pull that off, not one little one and one big one



You use the big library for tutti, and the small one for playing two notes. So Violins I tutti spiccato BSS, Violions I divisi Spiccato Berlin Strings.


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## Casiquire (Dec 17, 2020)

AEF said:


> You use the big library for tutti, and the small one for playing two notes. So Violins I tutti spiccato BSS, Violions I divisi Spiccato Berlin Strings.


Sure, but then they can't really overlap without using the transposition trick and the timbre changes as you switch between libraries. It doesn't work.


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## Eptesicus (Dec 17, 2020)

Some of the demos are lovely (Benny's especially as mentioned), but the actual strings themselves aren't knocking my spots off. They sound good, but not incredible. Getting a strong syncrhon strings vibe.


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## Bman70 (Dec 17, 2020)

Any purely short articulations demos? No one has yet given spiccato / staccatos a workout


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## Sips Tea (Dec 17, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Some of the demos are lovely (Benny's especially as mentioned), but the actual strings themselves aren't knocking my spots off. They sound good, but not incredible. Getting a strong syncrhon strings vibe.


I'm not sold on the sound either. I'm trying to hear where this library shines and the only demo that showcases that for me is GHNOSI by Emmanuel Jacob, an occasion where you would want a large impactful/emotive string sound for a heroic main theme or main title. It doesn't sound that stellar up close with the more intricate fast phrasings. The Berlin Strings Main library has a better sound for that type of composition in my opinion.


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## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> it does sound good - but runs sound a bit synthy to my ear.
> 
> In all the demos I heard so far I do like everythign from viola and below and dont like anything above - violins (incl runs) tend to sound a bit synthy in the demos .. and for sure nothing I could easily replicate with a blend/mix of HWS, BS, CSS, CS2 and even LASS .. if I wouldnt have all these libraries I guess would instantly buy BSS


Just got violin 1&2 downloaded. I agree that the cellos and violas sound especially good in the demos. Playing around with it, just using spot and tree mics for now, violins in octaves sound pretty good. I find the first violins alone have too much vibrato for my taste in the first octave, but going to the subtle vibrato setting is not enough vibrato. I do wish there was a manual, or I knew where to find it. All I can find are the instructions for Sine instruments in general....


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## justthere (Dec 17, 2020)

Based on a few listens to those demos, I really wish that more libraries would abandon trying to keep the room in their samples and just use in situ convolution. Everything loses agility, especially legatos. I do appreciate the bone thrown to Berlin a strings owners, though I was hoping they would just port it to Sine so it would be more usable, and maybe fix its issues. Not too excited yet. I’ll have to watch the presentation since the demos in it are supposedly better.


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## Nils Neumann (Dec 17, 2020)

NoamL said:


> Both this and Vista are passes for me after some very quick listening. Just not ahuge fan of teldex...
> 
> In theory you could use Berlin Strings as divisi sections for BSS. Dunno if anyone brought that up yet. I'm in cue conform hell rightnow
> 
> ...


This was their intention


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## RonOrchComp (Dec 17, 2020)

Not sold here, at all. Sure. the sound is really good. And 15 years ago, I would have been like, "WHOA! Listen to that!"

But to me, this is just more of the same. Between Hollywood Strings, Cinestrings, the plethora of SFA offerins, Berlin Strings, LASS, Synchron strings, Afflatus, 8Dio's offerings, Cinematic Strings, Cinematic Studio Strings, (did I miss any?) - do we really need another string library with nothing but the basic articulations? Now, if it was light on the basic artics, but heavy on the others we see little if any of - THAT would get my blood going.


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## peladio (Dec 17, 2020)

ansthenia said:


> Sounds very synthy to me to be completely honest.



Agreed..Berlin Strings sound so much better

If I didn't know I'd say it's a VSL release


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## borisb2 (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Just got violin 1&2 downloaded. I agree that the cellos and violas sound especially good in the demos. Playing around with it, just using spot and tree mics for now, violins in octaves sound pretty good.


can I commision you to give some quick audio examples? .. every little helps


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## Vik (Dec 17, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> I never understand the concept of using a smaller library "as a division section". You need two discrete sections of the same size to pull that off, not one little one and one big one


The idea is probably to use the smaller library twice in the sections that requires divisi, and go back to the large ensemble afterwards. With some tweaking maybe that would work fine (as long as they don't play the same note)?


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## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> can I commision you to give some quick audio examples? .. every little helps


I’ll try to get something out later tonight. I’ve just been messing around in Unify between bouts of paper grading and haven’t yet opened it in the DAW.


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## Vik (Dec 17, 2020)

I need longer and more 'singing' bass pizzicatos. Have any of you tried the BSS bass pizzes yet?


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## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

Vik said:


> The idea is probably to use the smaller library twice in the sections that requires divisi, and go back to the large ensemble afterwards. With some tweaking maybe that would work fine (as long as they don't play the same note)?


Sometimes that works. Sometimes it sounds like you changed orchestras. Just like sometimes it works to drop the volume a certain amount and use the same library, and sometimes you can combine big section and little section and that works. And sometimes you can combine two medium sized sections. But in my experience samples don’t stack and separate in the way players do, even when using divisi samples. So I usually end up having to work the samples to produce the effect of divisi, or decide that the simpler solutions are good enough.


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## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

Great. Not content with copying Spitfire's marketing and strategy, they've now adopted Spitfire's rubbish QA. Weird quirks that ANY DECENT BETA TESTER WOULD HAVE SPOTTED IN MINUTES BY SIMPLY PLAYING A SCALE OR CHROMATIC RUN.


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## Casiquire (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Sometimes that works. Sometimes it sounds like you changed orchestras. Just like sometimes it works to drop the volume a certain amount and use the same library, and sometimes you can combine big section and little section and that works. And sometimes you can combine two medium sized sections. But in my experience samples don’t stack and separate in the way players do, even when using divisi samples. So I usually end up having to work the samples to produce the effect of divisi, or decide that the simpler solutions are good enough.


Hollywood Strings, Dimension Strings, and LASS still accomplish this the best in my opinion and there hasn't been much in the way of competition since. I'd love to see a modern library improve on the concept because none of the above is exactly perfect


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 17, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> Great. Not content with copying Spitfire's marketing and strategy, they've now adopted Spitfire's rubbish QA. Weird quirks that ANY DECENT BETA TESTER WOULD HAVE SPOTTED IN MINUTES BY SIMPLY PLAYING A SCALE OR CHROMATIC RUN.



Next Gen


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## borisb2 (Dec 17, 2020)

its a game changer

I am very glad that picked up Berlin Strings last month ..but BSS? maybe later..


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## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> Hollywood Strings, Dimension Strings, and LASS still accomplish this the best in my opinion and there hasn't been much in the way of competition since. I'd love to see a modern library improve on the concept because none of the above is exactly perfect


The most important thing is the writing. If you get the writing right it’s much easier to get the samples to a good approximation. But yes even libraries supposedly designed for divisi have things they struggle with.


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## AEF (Dec 17, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> Sure, but then they can't really overlap without using the transposition trick and the timbre changes as you switch between libraries. It doesn't work.



you use the sustains patch for the divisi’s. you play all the notes on the same track.


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## peladio (Dec 17, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> Great. Not content with copying Spitfire's marketing and strategy, they've now adopted Spitfire's rubbish QA. Weird quirks that ANY DECENT BETA TESTER WOULD HAVE SPOTTED IN MINUTES BY SIMPLY PLAYING A SCALE OR CHROMATIC RUN.




Careful..you'll summon the fanboys 

But agreed..this is shocking QA..usually OT's very good


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

peladio said:


> Careful..you'll summon the fanboys
> 
> But agreed..this is shocking QA..usually OT's very good



That's an easy fix atleast. Can't imagine it's baked into the samples, it's literally probably 1 number wrong on the naming of samples by octave.


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## Instrugramm (Dec 17, 2020)

Still on the fence, I absolutely have enough string libraries and I'm not quite convinced regarding the sound yet. I guess it's time to meditate and think things through, BF was heavy this year...
The pattern legato probably interests me the most.


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## Alex Niedt (Dec 17, 2020)

FYI, those notes in the Bass Sustains Accented patch are logged in the bug tracker.


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## MaxOctane (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> The most important thing is the writing. If you get the writing right it’s much easier to get the samples to a good approximation.



This is so so so true. (_so true_)

A straightforward note for note transcription of a Master orchestral score, on an intro orchestral library and barely fiddling with dynamics, will usually sound amazing. Maybe not awesome enough to use commercially, but amazing as music.


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## LamaRose (Dec 17, 2020)

$490 USD for the intro price... and if I use my preferred - aka Safest - payment option, PayPal, that number is going to be closer to $550. The days of my entering CC info w/name, address, etc are over. 

I'm not looking for any preferential USD treatment, but I wish other developers would follow Spitfire's lead, come up with equitable average price, and run with it.


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## MaxOctane (Dec 17, 2020)

LamaRose said:


> $490 USD for the intro price... and if I use my preferred - aka Safest - payment option, PayPal, that number is going to be closer to $550.



what’s the extra $60?


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## NoamL (Dec 17, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> The most important thing is the writing. If you get the writing right it’s much easier to get the samples to a good approximation. But yes even libraries supposedly designed for divisi have things they struggle with.



Yeah there's not much that current libraries can't handle _and_ that people write often with VIs. Fast repeated notes in staircase gestures (A AB BC CD DE etc) and "quiet but high energy" passages with several bows per bar (think for example a series of 8th note triplets where only the first 2 of each triplet are slurred), are what leap to mind. Perhaps this "Pattern Legato" is a step forward in that direction.


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## LamaRose (Dec 17, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> what’s the extra $60?



You'd have to ask PP... but they tack on extra conversion fees... in contrast, my bank only charges a nominal $1 in addition to the conversion rate.


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## Virtuoso (Dec 17, 2020)

LamaRose said:


> $490 USD for the intro price... and if I use my preferred - aka Safest - payment option, PayPal, that number is going to be closer to $550. The days of my entering CC info w/name, address, etc are over.
> 
> I'm not looking for any preferential USD treatment, but I wish other developers would follow Spitfire's lead, come up with equitable average price, and run with it.


In Paypal you can just select Pay in EUR and let your bank do the conversion instead of Paypal. I did it that way and it came to $487.22.


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## Tinesaeriel (Dec 17, 2020)

I absolutely love that OT went ahead and made a slightly-larger-than-full size section string library with most of the articulations I need, but I'm not sold on the sound yet. It sounded really great in the demos and noodling on their announcement videos, but all the demos on the product page sound bad, even Benny Oschman's. Not his own fault, but the strings really didn't live up to his fantastic writing and orchestration.

I'm going to wait until more people here on VIC put up their own pieces with the library before I make a decision. Right now, I'm very, very happy with my purchase of Nashville Scoring Strings, so this library's going to really need to wow me in the hands of fellow composers here on the forum before I decide to pull the trigger.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2020)

If you have zero transaction fee credit card, that's the best way to go inside PayPal. I pay in Euros and save a lot over PayPal fees. And I get Amazon cash back! After the way this month has gone, I probably will have enough to pay for an SSD. Well, if I can get it on sale.


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## VSriHarsha (Dec 17, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> If you have zero transaction fee credit card, that's the best way to go inside PayPal. I pay in Euros and save a lot over PayPal fees. And I get Amazon cash back! After the way this month has gone, I probably will have enough to pay for an SSD. Well, if I can get it on sale.


Is PayPal paying Amazon cash back? For what?


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## ned3000 (Dec 17, 2020)

Tinesaeriel said:


> It sounded really great in the demos and noodling on their announcement videos, but all the demos on the product page sound bad, even Benny Oschman's. Not his own fault, but the strings really didn't live up to his fantastic writing and orchestration.



I had the same take on that. Stuff from the video sounded better than the demos. Also, this one sounds better to me than the ones on the OT site:





__





OT announcement - 17. Dec 2020


Do they warrant comparison? They're quite different libraries. Of course they do, they have different features but they're still general big string section libraries. It all comes down to the sound, I just need to know what MSS sounds like to decide between them, the extra features are just...




vi-control.net





Seemed like the demos were really good compositions, but not 100% tweaked for realism with the samples.


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## JeffvR (Dec 17, 2020)

Not sold on the violins. Cellos sound really good though. I do have BWW and BB, so all samples in one room is enticing. I'll wait for more demos and user experiences.


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## novaburst (Dec 17, 2020)

RonOrchComp said:


> do we really need another string library with nothing but the basic articulations? Now, if it was light on the basic artics, but heavy on the others we see little if any of - THAT would get my blood going.



I think it's all about your musical scope and depth, your musical pallet and colours, 

If I am not mistaken I think BS has 8 1st violins, looking at utube demos it also has a ton of articulations, while I think BS is a killer library and does get the job done BSS offers more breadth and depth only and I repeat only if your writing and work takes you there. If not then this new string library want make sense to you, just move on. 

The lacking of articulations in the new BSS will no doubt force you to work with BS the perfect partner. 

This may or may not of been OTs intension 

But from where I am standing it makes sense, 

When I check out the demos each time they went in and out of volume the strings never lost its consistency some points really seemed magical the way the strings reacted, to certain frazes. 

All in all if you had BS its the perfect excuse to bind the two library's together I think they can feed off each other, giving you a much more musical depth from the same musical stage.

If your writing has room this it's a no brainer, if not then all that's going to happen you will just end up giving excuses why not to get it or just criticism, as is always the case. 

From what I am hearing OTs have pushed the boundaries once again, they make you want the library, where as I can listen to some other new library and it may not have that effect.


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## korruptkey (Dec 17, 2020)

Given that Junkie XL released last year around this time, and now Berlin Symphonic Strings which seems to be it's counterpart. Maybe we'll be getting a Symphonic Winds in a year?


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## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)

JeffvR said:


> Not sold on the violins. Cellos sound really good though. I do have BWW and BB, so all samples in one room is enticing. I'll wait for more demos and user experiences.



https://vi-control.net/community/th...-berlin-symphonic-strings.103075/post-4718782


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## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Is PayPal paying Amazon cash back? For what?


I use an Amazon credit card for everything and pay it off at the end of the month. Most months aren't big amounts but buying the remainder of the Berlin series on top of some other BF buys made it higher than normal. It has no foreign transaction fees either. But I use it through PayPal. Makes it safer.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2020)

I didn't watch the announcement. I'm so-so on the demos I'm hearing. But Alex's piece sounds good. It's so easy for strings to go synthy, I'm not sure if that was what I was hearing - it's kind of like an accordion sound? I'll probably make up my mind closer to the end of the month when there are walkthroughs. Or did I miss that on the page? I'll go back and look. And I'm sure there will be reviews.


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## jamwerks (Dec 17, 2020)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> The disadvantage to not communicating you are dropping a new flagship strings library until three weeks after Black Friday is...I've already spent my sample strings money.


Yeah, I remember not buying Berlin Strings several years ago for the same reason.


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## Nils Neumann (Dec 17, 2020)

The Basses in the library are the best I have, always had a problem with basses in most libraries,but these are so deep

Cello are gorgeous too.

And finally a very good selection of microphone position for BSS.


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## Jorgakis (Dec 17, 2020)

JeffvR said:


> Not sold on the violins. Cellos sound really good though. I do have BWW and BB, so all samples in one room is enticing. I'll wait for more demos and user experiences.


Yes, absolutely agree. The Legato in the higher strings sounded similar to the original BS(somewhat synthy), Celli were great though. RR Legato is a great idea. Hoping for more clarity to come through demos.


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 18, 2020)

Ohhh was I excited when I heard/saw a little of this announcement yesterday! I was almost ready to buy it instantly. Was tired after a long day and went to bed though. 
Now, after hearing the demos I am not sure. Sounds mushy and ... dare I say - synthy - to me. Like some other said, Teldex might be some of the reason for this. It just is a very lively space and that can be a problem, especially as you stack up samples I think. Hope for a walkthrough before the grace period.


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## JeffvR (Dec 18, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> https://vi-control.net/community/th...-berlin-symphonic-strings.103075/post-4718782


Interesting! Thanks for that.


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## Markus Kohlprath (Dec 18, 2020)

My first impression from the demos is that it sounds somehow lifeless and sterile. Nothing that creates an urgent desire to reach for my wallet unfortunately.


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## Eptesicus (Dec 18, 2020)

Markus Kohlprath said:


> My first impression from the demos is that it sounds somehow lifeless and sterile. Nothing that creates an urgent desire to reach for my wallet unfortunately.



Haha. Yeh i saw this come up on Facebook and thought "oh god, this might be an expensive day", but i think my wallet can rest easy after listening to the demos. Now im back to debating whether i want PS Vista.


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## VSriHarsha (Dec 18, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I use an Amazon credit card for everything and pay it off at the end of the month. Most months aren't big amounts but buying the remainder of the Berlin series on top of some other BF buys made it higher than normal. It has no foreign transaction fees either. But I use it through PayPal. Makes it safer.


Now why haven’t I seen their credit cards, yet?

You don’t mean their gift cards, do you?

And can link it to PayPal?


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## Sean (Dec 18, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Now why haven’t I seen their credit cards, yet?
> 
> You don’t mean their gift cards, do you?
> 
> And can link it to PayPal?


https://www.amazon.com/Credit-Cards/b?ie=UTF8&node=1266766011
I imagine dzilizzi is talking about the Prime Rewards Visa Card since it has no foreign transaction fees.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 18, 2020)

Sean said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Credit-Cards/b?ie=UTF8&node=1266766011
> I imagine dzilizzi is talking about the Prime Rewards Visa Card since it has no foreign transaction fees.


Yes, this. Saves a lot when you are buying expensive libraries in Euros or pounds.


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## Drundfunk (Dec 18, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> OT sent me an NFR copy for review.


You little rebel. I like you. Using a Not-For-Review copy for a review.....


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 18, 2020)

Drundfunk said:


> You little rebel. I like you. Using a Not-For-Review copy for a review.....


Nooo I've been rumbled


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## VSriHarsha (Dec 18, 2020)

Sean said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Credit-Cards/b?ie=UTF8&node=1266766011
> I imagine dzilizzi is talking about the Prime Rewards Visa Card since it has no foreign transaction fees.


Thanks. I checked it yes, that’s cool. You gotta be qualified, in order to receive it.


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## rnb_2 (Dec 18, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Thanks. I checked it yes, that’s cool. You gotta be qualified, in order to receive it.



Other US credit cards do the same. I discovered this yesterday when I was buying Pigments 2 from someone on VI-C. I did a quick currency check to figure out a good offer, but when I went to pay with PayPal, it came up as a bit less than predicted. While the seller was in Europe, my offer was in USD, but I didn't feel right shorting the seller because of PayPal. I checked on my credit card (Capital One) - they also don't charge a foreign transaction fee, and the conversion was right where I had expected it to be, so I paid what I offered and the seller got what they were expecting. I did pay via PayPal, just using my credit card to do the currency conversion instead.


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## jamie8 (Dec 18, 2020)

just wondering out loud when will Orchestral tools make Sine a axx format .? i love their products but have stopped buying them until they ... if ever do this .
i enjoy working with Logic but i am still a old Pro tools guy and am trying to not be set in my ways but .... this is a deal breaker ... so please don't say oh.. you can do this or host in vienna pro or.. not interested , if spitfire can make a plugin that works in axx why not Orchestral tools, for all their innovation i see this as a large stumbling block...


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## borisb2 (Dec 18, 2020)

Was there any more info when that FF-layer in Berlin Brass will arrive?

And where there any demos already?? Would like to give that a listen


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## justthere (Dec 23, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> That's an easy fix atleast. Can't imagine it's baked into the samples, it's literally probably 1 number wrong on the naming of samples by octave.


You _should_ imagine it. There’s stuff like that all through Berlin Strings that never got fixed. So maybe that should be an indicator of what the fix support for this library will be. That’s just plain pitchy stuff that they didn’t redo because they were speeding through the recording sessions. I acknowledge that they worked very hard on this library, but I don’t understand why nobody said “play that again” at the session.


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 23, 2020)

justthere said:


> You _should_ imagine it. There’s stuff like that all through Berlin Strings that never got fixed. So maybe that should be an indicator of what the fix support for this library will be. That’s just plain pitchy stuff that they didn’t redo because they were speeding through the recording sessions. I acknowledge that they worked very hard on this library, but I don’t understand why nobody said “play that again” at the session.



I don't think so, it sounds like it's crossfading between incorrect samples, not sloppy playing. The intonation isn't bad, it's a minor 2nd.


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## justthere (Dec 23, 2020)

Drundfunk said:


> You little rebel. I like you. Using a Not-For-Review copy for a review.....


NFR = Not For Resale, no?


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## borisb2 (Dec 23, 2020)

justthere said:


> NFR = Not For Resale, no?


I think that was a joke... might be wrong


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## borisb2 (Dec 23, 2020)

When that FF-layer will be added to Berlin Brass, do you guys expect any sale on BB? Or more like a silent update? ..


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## Virtuoso (Dec 23, 2020)

Alex Niedt said:


> FYI, those notes in the Bass Sustains Accented patch are logged in the bug tracker.


Not fixed in today's patch unfortunately. All these bugs are still there...


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## Casiquire (Dec 23, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> When that FF-layer will be added to Berlin Brass, do you guys expect any sale on BB? Or more like a silent update? ..


I'm looking for a sale on the expansions personally!


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## Alex Niedt (Dec 23, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> Not fixed in today's patch unfortunately. All these bugs are still there...



Those are all in the tracker. Things don't get fixed all at once.


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## Drundfunk (Dec 24, 2020)

justthere said:


> NFR = Not For Resale, no?


I know. It was a joke


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