# Spitfire Symphony Orchestra (Professional)



## ridgero (Apr 19, 2021)

Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Symphony Orchestra


Spitfire Symphony Orchestra provides all the tools to create blockbuster symphonic works - Woodwinds, Brass, Strings and additional samples with Masse.



www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 19, 2021)

Whatever it is, Paul will be excited about it!  

I am hoping for more AR libraries.


----------



## prodigalson (Apr 19, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Whatever it is, Paul will be excited about it!
> 
> I am hoping for more AR libraries.


You'll be disappointed. Thats the ceiling of AIR Lyndhurst


----------



## packhorse (Apr 19, 2021)

I am excited!


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 19, 2021)

I wonder what this is ? 

Maybe their Symphonic Libraries in their Spitfire Player ? or something new recorded in Air ?

Kind of odd, I was hoping it's related to AROOF, i.e. new expansions.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 19, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> You'll be disappointed. Thats the ceiling of AIR Lyndhurst


Ah, I did not know this. I am okay with the transfer of SSO to the Spitfire player, as long as they add the mics. I bought SSO 4 months after they discontinued the sale of the mics. 

I'm just really waiting on the AR modular orchestra. And this looks really modular.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 19, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm just really waiting on the AR modular orchestra. And this looks really modular.


The AR Modular Orchestra is what I would love to see released this year, or part of it. But, this seems to be something they developed in AIR. We shall know soon.


----------



## coprhead6 (Apr 19, 2021)

I'm so jaded after waiting so long for a refresh of SSO. I thought BBCSO was going to be SSO Professional... I also asked support when we would be getting a refresh and they told me "summer 2020"
It's probably some small recording project. 
But I'm still hopeful!


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 19, 2021)

I think an SSO “remix” is a fair bet at this point. I’m thinking more than just a straight swap to the new player. New price points, options etc etc.

Also, about time there was a new Spitfire tease where everyone adds 2 + 2 to get 15...followed by hot rages of indignation when dreams are dashed again. 😅


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 19, 2021)

Twitter account has been hinting:


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 19, 2021)

coprhead6 said:


> I'm so jaded after waiting so long for a refresh of SSO. I thought BBCSO was going to be SSO Professional... I also asked support when we would be getting a refresh and they told me "summer 2020"
> It's probably some small recording project.
> But I'm still hopeful!


Exactly my thoughts too.... After ARO I gave up any hope of it ever arriving at all....


----------



## ridgero (Apr 19, 2021)

coprhead6 said:


> I'm so jaded after waiting so long for a refresh of SSO. I thought BBCSO was going to be SSO Professional... I also asked support when we would be getting a refresh and they told me "summer 2020"
> It's probably some small recording project.
> But I'm still hopeful!


My bet is a Refresh of SSO. They recently changed the icons of SSO / SSO Chamber Edition on their website, but not on Kontakt.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 19, 2021)

ridgero said:


> My bet is a Refresh of SSO


Interesting, would that mean ported to their Spitfire Player, and maybe more refinements/improvements to the libraries content ?


----------



## ridgero (Apr 19, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Interesting, would that mean ported to their Spitfire Player, and maybe more refinements/improvements to the libraries content ?


I guess both, but we will see


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 19, 2021)

Looks like it's SSO reboot. This alongside recent SSO updates and change of art and that Twitter post all suggests that's what this is.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 19, 2021)

One would think so.

I am now wondering if the recent upgrades to the Kontakt SSO libraries were a by-product of the the work they have done to get an SSO reboot done, as not everyone will want to move over form the Kontakt version.


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 19, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> One would think so.
> 
> I am now wondering if the recent upgrades to the Kontakt SSO libraries were a by-product of the the work they have done to get an SSO robot done, as not everyone will want to move over form the Kontakt version.


That's what im thinking.


----------



## MaxOctane (Apr 19, 2021)

Personally, I wouldn’t migrate to their new player for SSO. It would mean doubling the HD space since I’d need to keep the old version around for older projects, and having to redo my template.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 19, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> One would think so.
> 
> I am now wondering if the recent upgrades to the Kontakt SSO libraries were a by-product of the the work they have done to get an SSO robot done, as not everyone will want to move over form the Kontakt version.


Yep, my thoughts too. May also suggest that there isn’t a straight swap equivalent/free download for exiting users, else why fix it?

It’s not hard to imagine a core/pro split again, like BBCSO.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 19, 2021)

MaxOctane said:


> Personally, I wouldn’t migrate to their new player for SSO. It would mean doubling the HD space since I’d need to keep the old version around for older projects, and having to redo my template.


I still have much of the BML series versions on the drives. When the SF Player versions arrive, I'll likely archive those. One advantage of the Kontakt versions is the ability to use the UACC KS, which you can't do with the player. UACC KS makes the midi much more portable for trying things out.


----------



## justthere (Apr 19, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Twitter account has been hinting:



They all made use of a library that’s very long in the tooth by now?

I rarely use SSO because of things about it that won’t be fixed with a re-edit.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 19, 2021)

Would they have gone through the trouble of doing a big update on SSO Kontakt patches just a couple of weeks ago only to turn around and say the library is now in the new player...with improvements?


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 19, 2021)

I know what you are saying, and I thought the same when the updates were released. I was thinking that if they were going to reboot SSO, why would they bother. But perhaps the work done was easily translated to both platforms - so why not update ?

It might make a great deal of sense they would develop a migration tool from Kontakt to their own player. But its all speculation. I shall look forward to seeing that happens on Thursday.

What with the Apple event, the release of HOOPUS (hopefully), and now this, it's going to be a a packed week.

My SSD's are trembling with anticipation.......


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 19, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Would they have gone through the trouble of doing a big update on SSO Kontakt patches just a couple of weeks ago only to turn around and say the library is now in the new player...with improvements?


Hypotheticals? A commitment to support the existing product. I mean, it’s still available for sale for a princely sum.

Also unlikely to be a straight feature parity port from Kontakt to SF player. Because why bother doing that? They’d have to be a restructure of the range and/or new market points for the time invested to make sense.

All guesswork of course. It’s probably Air Kazoos.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 19, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Would they have gone through the trouble of doing a big update on SSO Kontakt patches just a couple of weeks ago only to turn around and say the library is now in the new player...with improvements?


Yeah.. I was thinking about this. Could this announcement be something else ?


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 19, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> All guesswork of course. It’s probably Air Kazoos.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 19, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> I know what you are saying, and I thought the same when the updates were released. I was thinking that if they were going to reboot SSO, why would they bother. But perhaps the work done was easily translated to both platforms - so why not update ?


You would do this, I think, if you were no longer planning to update the Kontakt version.


----------



## eakwarren (Apr 19, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I still have much of the BML series versions on the drives. When the SF Player versions arrive, I'll likely archive those. One advantage of the Kontakt versions is the ability to use the UACC KS, which you can't do with the player. UACC KS makes the midi much more portable for trying things out.


While not UACC KS, I've setup *UACC in this set of Core patches*.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 19, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> You would do this, I think, if you were no longer planning to update the Kontakt version.


That's a big possibility, and since they seem to be releasing most of their new libraries in their Player, they might just had the time to port the Symphonic Line to their in-house player, I wouldn't be surprised if they do this to their Chamber, and Solo Strings, and some of their other popular Kontakt libraries. But, the question still remains, if they were going to port them to their Player, why did they bother with updating the Kontakt versions ?


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 19, 2021)

If we’re still assuming SSO, then it’ll be more than just “SSO in a new player.”

I think it’s bigger than that.
New price points, new market segmentation. Even new remixed products. The OG Kontakt version essentially becomes a different product at this point, thereby meriting updates?

SF have already shown a taste for repackaging the SSO. See Staffpad etc


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 19, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> That's a big possibility, and since they seem to be releasing most of their new libraries in their Player, they might just had the time to port the Symphonic Line to their in-house player, I wouldn't be surprised if they do this to their Chamber, and Solo Strings, and some of their other popular Kontakt libraries. But, the question still remains, if they were going to port them to their Player, why did they bother with updating the Kontakt versions ?


To cut off the dangling outstanding fixes for current Kontakt users. 



Alex Fraser said:


> If we’re still assuming SSO, then it’ll be more than just “SSO in a new player.”
> 
> I think it’s bigger than that.
> New price points, new market segmentation. Even new remixed products. The OG Kontakt version essentially becomes a different product at this point, thereby meriting updates?


Possibly, but it then becomes yet another product to support. I could however see new price points (at the least other mics will be available). Except they don't have a lot of terrain to work with with BBCSO Pro at $1000 and the new modular Abbey Road library at say maybe $3000. I could see some additional content added beyond the mics. The clarinets, oboes, and English horn in particular could really use some additional articulations to bring them more in line with the flutes, and additional legatos for various long articulations in the strings would also be most welcome.


----------



## gst98 (Apr 19, 2021)

The latest SF clue tweet had HTTYD 1, was that not done at AR like the later films?


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 19, 2021)

WTF is HTTYD 1 when it's at home ?

(Hey, I'm swinging with the kids...)

Edit: Ahhh, got it.....


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 19, 2021)

gst98 said:


> The latest SF clue tweet had HTTYD 1, was that not done at AR like the later films?











Lyndhurst Hall - AIR Studios


The live area accommodates a full symphony orchestra and choir simultaneously, with an inspiring acoustic that musicians love.




www.airstudios.com





HTTYD is listed on the AIR website? I guess that keeps things on track..🤷‍♂️


----------



## CT (Apr 19, 2021)

Yeah the first Dragon was done at AIR. The others were Abbey Road.


----------



## gst98 (Apr 19, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Lyndhurst Hall - AIR Studios
> 
> 
> The live area accommodates a full symphony orchestra and choir simultaneously, with an inspiring acoustic that musicians love.
> ...





Mike T said:


> Yeah the first Dragon was done at AIR. The others were Abbey Road.



That explains it, never knew! Thanks


----------



## ism (Apr 19, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Whatever it is, Paul will be excited about it!
> 
> I am hoping for more AR libraries.


And in all fairness, if Paul is excited about it, then so am I.


----------



## ism (Apr 19, 2021)

Seriously, I can't think of a single Spitfire library that I've been excited about that Paul hasn't.


----------



## justthere (Apr 19, 2021)

ism said:


> Seriously, I can't think of a single Spitfire library that I've been excited about that Paul hasn't.


Is there anything Paul’s been unexcited about? “Yeah , so we’ve got a new thing for you today but really it’s lackluster and poorly programmed - not really worth getting out of bed over.”


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 19, 2021)

So, has it been established if the new Library/announcement is referring to AIR or AR1 ?


----------



## mybadmemory (Apr 19, 2021)

I find it fascinating that they went for different product and pricing models with BBCSO and AR. Will be interesting to see if they try yet another path with their next new or revived orchestra.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 19, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I find it fascinating that they went for different product and pricing models with BBCSO and AR. Will be interesting to see if they try yet another path with their next new or revived orchestra.


it depends on how deep it is sampled. BBCSO is great, but doesn't have the round robins and dynamics it could have. But that is what you get for that price. I get the impression the modular orchestra may be deeper sampled but will come with a price. And if you don't want all that, there is AROOF and the extensions.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 19, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> So, has it been established if the new Library/announcement is referring to AIR or AR1 ?


Well, the marketing pics so far consist of closeups of the movable ceiling in the main hall of AIR. So AIR at least is a safe bet.


----------



## jamwerks (Apr 19, 2021)

For a long time they talked about bringing SSS on par with SCS articulation wise. We'll see!


----------



## lettucehat (Apr 19, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> For a long time they talked about bringing SSS on par with SCS articulation wise. We'll see!



It would be something else if they retroactively added that many new articulations. Recording 10 years later?


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 19, 2021)

lettucehat said:


> It would be something else if they retroactively added that many new articulations. Recording 10 years later?


LOL... and I bet they will forget to add the Staccatos


----------



## NoamL (Apr 19, 2021)

the pic clue - all 4 recorded at AIR. IronMan1 was Ramin.









With Air Lyndhurst Studios (Sorted by Number of Votes Descending) - IMDb


IMDb's advanced search allows you to run extremely powerful queries over all people and titles in the database. Find exactly what you're looking for!




www.imdb.com


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 19, 2021)

It probably is the SSO update. Not sure if they will even improve it and just add the extra mics


----------



## NoamL (Apr 19, 2021)

the add-on mics will be well worth the download. I use them all the time in Mural.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 19, 2021)

So, they are not porting them to their Spitfire Player ? only adding the additional mics ? 

I doubt a big announcement is only about additional mics.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 19, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Yep, my thoughts too. May also suggest that there isn’t a straight swap equivalent/free download for exiting users, else why fix it?
> 
> It’s not hard to imagine a core/pro split again, like BBCSO.


Yup. My guess is Core will be the existing SSO. Pro will include the expansion packs (extra mics and mixes). Although they may not use the 'Core' name, it will probably just be SSO and SSO Pro, like Chamber Strings and Studio Orchestra.


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 19, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> So, they are not porting them to their Spitfire Player ? only adding the additional mics ?
> 
> I doubt a big announcement is only about additional mics.


I'd guess its definitely going to include the additional mics. Maybe It'll be a SSO reboot in new player which also includes percussion redux as part of a full orchestral SSO package with new prices. 

The thing I'm unsure about is if they have recorded new material for it, maybe they have recorded things like staccato for Symphonic strings and made it more consistent between all instruments.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 19, 2021)

Didn’t they already release the extra mics in Kontakt format as part of a limited time thing?


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 19, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Didn’t they already release the extra mics in Kontakt format as part of a limited time thing?


They did, a while back apparently.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 19, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Didn’t they already release the extra mics in Kontakt format as part of a limited time thing?


Yes, and said that they wouldn’t be available again until SSO had been ported to the new player.


----------



## Fleer (Apr 19, 2021)

Maybe this is Spitfire showing EW the symphonic finger


----------



## VSriHarsha (Apr 19, 2021)

So, is this really SSO for their player?


----------



## jamwerks (Apr 20, 2021)

I imagine the extra arts and features (if there are any) have been ready for years. But they've been waiting for their player to be ready to handle them. Time stretching might be a part of that.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 20, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> So, is this really SSO for their player?


Who knows? 🤷‍♂️

It's a logical guess. All the marketing material so far features imagery of the hall at Air, and Spitfire have been listing symphonic film scores recorded at Air all week on Twitter.

If we were scraping the barrel for hints, I'd imagine covid restrictions would have provided some time away from recording to knuckle down and get an SSO update out of the door.

And because no Spitfire SSO thread shall pass without me tediously posting this link: 🙄








LUNA Spitfire Bundle | UAD Audio Plugins | Universal Audio


The LUNA Spitfire Bundle lets you create with world-class, expertly sampled String, Brass, and Woodwind Collections.




www.uaudio.com


----------



## tritonely (Apr 20, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Who knows? 🤷‍♂️
> 
> It's a logical guess. All the marketing material so far features imagery of the hall at Air, and Spitfire have been listing symphonic film scores recorded at Air all week on Twitter.
> 
> ...


Wow good find, haven't seen that yet! Then it almost should be that right? Nice design. Also nice that they chose Chamber Strings (from the opinions I've read here, I don't have SCS or SSS)


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 20, 2021)

tritonely said:


> Wow good find, haven't seen that yet! Then it almost should be that right? Nice design. Also nice that they chose Chamber Strings (from the opinions I've read here, I don't have SCS or SSS)


No idea really. That Luna product has been around for a while. If nothing else, I guess it's proof that the library has already migrated to the new player in some form at least.


----------



## mybadmemory (Apr 20, 2021)

So possibly a stripped down SSO similar to Luna, for the new player, with chamber strings instead of symphonic, and perhaps different pricing tiers? Very interesting!


----------



## easyrider (Apr 20, 2021)

Spitfire where the hype is real 😂


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 20, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> So possibly a stripped down SSO similar to Luna, for the new player, with chamber strings instead of symphonic, and perhaps different pricing tiers? Very interesting!


They already have the SSO Chamber Edition so it makes no sense replacing SSS from SCS as Spitfire made new art for both packages. Also SCS already has a pro version with the new mics.


----------



## pfmusic (Apr 20, 2021)

Just noticed an update for SCS in Spitfire app


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 20, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> So possibly a stripped down SSO similar to Luna, for the new player, with chamber strings instead of symphonic, and perhaps different pricing tiers? Very interesting!


There may be a stripped down version, too, something like BBCSO core for running on low RAM computers, but I can't imagine that SF wouldn't move the whole thing, and SCS too, to the new player. (SCS may follow later, just because it has so many legatos to port, and I imagine that there's still a lot of work that has to be done porting legatos.)


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 20, 2021)

pfmusic said:


> Just noticed an update for SCS in Spitfire app


Another one for SSS/SSS Pro (as the version with additional mics is evidently now called), too, and Alternative Solo Strings.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 20, 2021)

Fix Logs:
Alternative Solo Strings
1.0.3 (April 2021)
FIXED: PB-2246 - Viola patches loading up as DEMO in Kontakt Player

SSS
v1.4.2 (April 2021)
Fixed: [PB-2240] - Multiple Instruments - Performance Legato: Patches open in demo mode 

SCS
v1.4 (April 2021)
Fixed: [PB-1365] - Violins 1 - Economic Shorts: Spiccato Feathered, no sound on RR2
Fixed: [PB-1387] - Celli - Legato performance: Bowed legato loads up purged
Fixed: [PB-1502] - Violins 2 - Decorative Legato: Vibrato control has no effect
Fixed: [PB-1525] - Basses - Long Flautando: Tuning refinements
Fixed: [PB-1529] - Ensembles - Long: Notes dropping when all mics are active
Fixed: [PB-1735] - Violins 1 - Performance legato: Tuning refinements
Fixed: [PB-1793] - Violas - Spiccato: Tuning refinements, G3 and G#3
Fixed: [PB-1858] - Violins 2 - Legato Performance: Tuning refinements
Fixed: [PB-1993] - Violins 2 - Decorative Legatos: Loads up purged
Fixed: [PB-2008] - Violins 2 - Legato (Fast): B3 to G#4 artefacts in transition
Fixed: [PB-1798] - Violins 2 - Tense longs: Dynamics has no effect, unused vibrato control


----------



## Kevperry777 (Apr 20, 2021)

Definitely SSO


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 20, 2021)

Kevperry777 said:


> Definitely SSO


“This Thursday we return to one of our celebrated libraries.”

I stand by Air Kazoos.


----------



## dedene (Apr 20, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Another one for SSS/SSS Pro (as the version with additional mics is evidently now called), too, and Alternative Solo Strings.


Did you already have the mics expansion?


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 20, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> “This Thursday we return to one of our celebrated libraries.”
> 
> I stand by Air Kazoos.


I am simply throbbing with anticipation !


----------



## NoamL (Apr 20, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> I stand by Air Kazoos.


Honestly that would be very disappointing and a betrayal. They had promised never to offer their private bespoke libraries to the wider public... and now Joe Anybody is going to have the sound of 40 kazoos in AIR at their fingertips.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 20, 2021)

dedene said:


> Did you already have the mics expansion?


Yes. I picked the expansions up for everything back when SF was doing the Kontakt close out on them.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 20, 2021)

NoamL said:


> Honestly that would be very disappointing and a betrayal. They had promised never to offer their private bespoke libraries to the wider public... and now Joe Anybody is going to have the sound of 40 kazoos in AIR at their fingertips.


I honestly don’t care, NoamL. As long as they’ve finally fixed the legatos.


----------



## Manaberry (Apr 20, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> I honestly don’t care, NoamL. As long as they’ve finally fixed the legatos.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 20, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> I honestly don’t care, NoamL. As long as they’ve finally fixed the legatos.


I'm more interested in the trills. Are they whole note or half note only? And what about the runs? It is not a good kazoo library without at least octave runs in both major and minor. Seriously.


----------



## coprhead6 (Apr 20, 2021)

Their teaser video made me think that they're doing a refresh of Albion II... I clearly heard chamber strings and they seem to be referring to one library.

Maybe they're doing SSO Professional and Albion II in one fell swoop as part of a larger Air Studios refresh?

**Edit** I forgot that NEO exists.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 20, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm more interested in the trills. Are they whole note or half note only? And what about the runs? It is not a good kazoo library without at least octave runs in both major and minor. Seriously.


Paul promised an update on the trills, but it never happened. A bit disappointing considering how much some of us paid for it. I did send him a shitty email registering my annoyance at the time.


----------



## ism (Apr 20, 2021)

Anyone else recall that in one of the videos ... Black Friday 2017, I think ... Christian mentioned they'd booked several days in AIR for an update to SSW?


----------



## Go To 11 (Apr 20, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Fix Logs:
> Alternative Solo Strings
> 1.0.3 (April 2021)
> FIXED: PB-2246 - Viola patches loading up as DEMO in Kontakt Player
> ...


v1.4 (April 2021)
Fixed: [PB-823] - Celli - Performance Legato: 3-4dB swells after transition
Fixed: [PB-953] - Multiple Instruments - Spiccato: Inconsistent timing
Fixed: [PB-494] - Violins 1&2 - Multiple Articulations: Inconsistent ranges
Fixed: [PB-560] - Ensembles - Multiple articulations: Release length is controlled by velocity
Fixed: [PB-561] - Celli - Short Harmonics: Mapped one octave too low
Fixed: [PB-562] - Violins 1 - Trill Minor 3rd: G3 release trigger start point too late
Fixed: [PB-566] - Multiple Articulations: Tightness control has no effect
Fixed: [PB-614] - Multiple Instruments - All-in-one patches: Speed control is unused
Fixed: [PB-656] - Viola - Performance Legato: Hard attack 'bell' sound
Fixed: [PB-690] - Violins 1&2 - Short Spiccato: Inconsistent tightness
Fixed: [PB-707] - Multiple instruments - FX: Tuning refinements & sample starts too early
 Fixed: [PB-732] - Celli - Performance legato: A3 and F4 tuning refinements
Fixed: [PB-766] - Ensembles - Long: Tuning refinements, G1 & F#1 non-vib
Fixed: [PB-768] - Basses - Long Super Sul Tasto: F#0 and G0 incorrect mapping
Fixed: [PB-850] - Violins 2 - Long CS: Loop point refinements
Fixed: [PB-1619] - Violin 2 - Performance Legato: Samples cut out while playing fast runs
Fixed: [PB-1646] - Violins 2 - Pizzicato: RR skips
Fixed: [PB-1825] - Celli - Long CS: Noisy sample, C1
Fixed: [PB-1826] - Ensembles - Spiccato: Slurred C#4 RR8, low velocity
Fixed: [PB-2047] - Basses - Short Spiccato: Inconsistent tightness, E2 RR2
Fixed: [PB-323] - Multiple Instruments - Performance Legato: Fast Runs envelope refinements
Fixed: [PB-923] - Violin 2 - Long Harmonics: Loop point refinements
Fixed: [PB-940] - Celli - Long: Hard attack, molto vibrato f F4
Fixed: [PB-339] - Multiple Instruments - Performance Legatos: UACC KS Note C-1


----------



## Go To 11 (Apr 20, 2021)

From the update page in the app.


----------



## BasariStudios (Apr 20, 2021)

It is probably some weird name like Olafur or Drama again.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 20, 2021)

Go To 11 said:


> v1.4 (April 2021)
> Fixed: [PB-823] - Celli - Performance Legato: 3-4dB swells after transition
> Fixed: [PB-953] - Multiple Instruments - Spiccato: Inconsistent timing
> Fixed: [PB-494] - Violins 1&2 - Multiple Articulations: Inconsistent ranges
> ...


Yes, that's the 1.4 update. What I listed was the 1.4.2, the most recent one.


----------



## Go To 11 (Apr 20, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, that's the 1.4 update. What I listed was the 1.4.2, the most recent one.


Ah apologies, I hadn't updated to either, so thought perhaps you'd missed one.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 20, 2021)

Go To 11 said:


> Ah apologies, I hadn't updated to either, so thought perhaps you'd missed one.


It was very fun to see that SSS Professional badge in the app, though!


----------



## Go To 11 (Apr 20, 2021)

Does anyone remember how the old Legato Performance Palette let you a) see the transition you'd chosen, b) give you control over legato speed, legato intensity and portamento intensity but most crucially, c) give you three layers of vibrato rather than the newer one, which has two? 

I totally understand taking away control in favour of a better overall sound, however the thing I never liked was that the two layers of vibrato were none and full. It seems like in this update the two layers in the Performance Legato patch are none and middle, which sounds way more natural to my ears. Am I hearing things or mis-remembering? Was it always none and middle, rather than none and full as I remember? 

Either way, the overall experience is much smoother, and with this middle legato, I'm finally ready to say bye to the older Performance Palette style (though I'll miss the visual feedback of knowing which transition type I've hit).


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 20, 2021)

ism said:


> Anyone else recall that in one of the videos ... Black Friday 2017, I think ... Christian mentioned they'd booked several days in AIR for an update to SSW?


Hopefully they will update the whole SSO


----------



## constaneum (Apr 20, 2021)

for the existing SSS, did anyone notice that only the performance legato patches can't do stereo widening and stereo panning ?


----------



## VSriHarsha (Apr 20, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm more interested in the trills. Are they whole note or half note only? And what about the runs? It is not a good kazoo library without at least octave runs in both major and minor. Seriously.


They’re making, well, made a Kazoo library? They don’t sound like that. I thought they’re coming up with a symphonic library or maybe an installment of their own. But they mentioned they’re making it, damn sorry, made it at the AIR Lyndhurst. Is that right?
But (pretty more or less) interesting.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Apr 20, 2021)

And they made it for their Player & that’s something.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Apr 20, 2021)

Lol! I posted on the SSO thread so it is their SSO ported to their Player ok that’s cool.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 20, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> They’re making, well, made a Kazoo library? They don’t sound like that. I thought they’re coming up with a symphonic library or maybe an installment of their own. But they mentioned they’re making it, damn sorry, made it at the AIR Lyndhurst. Is that right?
> But (pretty more or less) interesting.


Joke. We are not sure what it is. Someone mentioned Kazoos


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 20, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> They’re making, well, made a Kazoo library? They don’t sound like that. I thought they’re coming up with a symphonic library or maybe an installment of their own. But they mentioned they’re making it, damn sorry, made it at the AIR Lyndhurst. Is that right?
> But (pretty more or less) interesting.


No. Kazoos was a joke. SSO is an existing product however they said they would release the extra mics soon, so this is presumably that as the trailer for tomorrow had the SSO art on it


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 20, 2021)

Well if Spitfire keep their word, and they always have before, at least to me, I should hopefully be getting this SSO update (and I think there's not much doubt that this is what it is) free of charge.

I am quite looking forward to it it, but my SSD's are going to need weeding......

Hopefully I'll get it all downloaded in time for the weekend......


----------



## easyrider (Apr 21, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Well if Spitfire keep their word, and they always have before, at least to me, I should hopefully be getting this SSO update (and I think there's not much doubt that this is what it is) free of charge.
> 
> I am quite looking forward to it it, but my SSD's are going to need weeding......
> 
> Hopefully I'll get it all downloaded in time for the weekend......


Free?


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 21, 2021)

Yes - I have the full SSO with the extra mics. They had a close out sale on the extra mics a few years ago before h the hey withdrew them fro sale.....


----------



## easyrider (Apr 21, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Yes - I have the full SSO with the extra mics. They had a close out sale on the extra mics a few years ago before h the hey withdrew them fro sale.....


Oh right...looks like my upgrade to pro then will be costly....it’s £300 for me to upgrade to SCS pro....even at 50% off a few weeks back I couldn’t justify the extra space and cost for the extra mics...


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 21, 2021)

They'll be an upgrade path..... Plus it might be SSS rather than ScS.....


----------



## easyrider (Apr 21, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> They'll be an upgrade path..... Plus it might be SSS rather than ScS.....


We’re the extra mics offered for SSW and SSB ?


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 21, 2021)

easyrider said:


> We’re the extra mics offered for SSW and SSB ?


Yes


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 21, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Joke. We are not sure what it is. Someone mentioned Kazoos


Yeah, annoying whoever that was.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 21, 2021)

Yes, but later withdrawn from sale.


Alex Fraser said:


> Yeah, annoying whoever that was.


I'd like to get my hands on whoever it was, that's for sure.....


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 21, 2021)

Are we thinking we'll be seeing just the "pro" versions at this point? Or will there be replacements for the exiting line and/or some new budget options?

Or maybe they go hyper modular?

I think odds are it won't be a straight like-for-like Kontakt > SF player transfer, but that's really all I got.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 21, 2021)

I'll bet $5 on Core & Pro......but whether they will trim it a little or not I wouldn't like to hazard a guess.

I'm just pleased it's on the way, I'd given up hope of it seeing the light of day after BBC & ARO, but I guess those opportunities just popped up and simply couldn't be ignored.

My faith in the Spitfire boys is restored.....

(Unless, that is, it's something else, in which case we just should burn them.....)


----------



## Brasart (Apr 21, 2021)

I'd love to see a core version à la BBCSO; I think they have a pretty fantastic marketing opportunity with having basically a "pick your orchestra" multi-offer between:
*• BBCSO* _(entry price point, smaller sound and orchestra)_
*• SSO* _(mid-price point, Air, big classic sweeping ensembles)_
*• ARO* _(highest priced, Abbey Road, most modern offering)._

If all 3 have a similar selling structure with a basic entry (Discover, Foundations), core, and pro versions, I think it'd be wonderful


----------



## MA-Simon (Apr 21, 2021)

I just WISH the outrigger mics were included in the core version patches again. Or I remember the BML stuff wrong.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 21, 2021)

I just missed out on the extra mics. So I am assuming that though the main library upgrade to Spitfire player may be free or a minimal download cost, the extra mics are going to cost at least $175 to $200 based on the Firesale price of the extra mics? I think that was the price then. Well, I would have bought them back then for that price.


----------



## scoringdreams (Apr 21, 2021)

If we're expecting the port over to Spitfire Player, looks like I need to spend an entire weekend (or two) modifying the scoring template again...

Totally looking forward to this new update or whatsoever that involve the symphonic / studio range! Had been using them since BML days and still find them really inspiring.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 21, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> So I am assuming that though the main library upgrade to Spitfire player may be free or a minimal download cost...


Unless the "new standard version" is sufficiently different enough to be classed as a "new product" = no free download.


----------



## scoringdreams (Apr 21, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Unless the "new standard version" is sufficiently different enough to be classed as a "new product" = no free download.


that would be an added bonus imo, considering that it's a flagship product


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 21, 2021)

I'm Super Excited about what they will announce tomorrow


----------



## mybadmemory (Apr 21, 2021)

Still no official teaser thread from Spitfire around here? :D


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 21, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I'm Super Excited about what they will announce tomorrow


I bet Paul is as well


----------



## Hendrixon (Apr 21, 2021)

Spitfire Player + More mics = Earth is flat...


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 21, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Are we thinking we'll be seeing just the "pro" versions at this point? Or will there be replacements for the exiting line and/or some new budget options?
> 
> Or maybe they go hyper modular?
> 
> I think odds are it won't be a straight like-for-like Kontakt > SF player transfer, but that's really all I got.


Like @Michael Antrum, I'm thinking there will be a core and pro. Possibly a lower cost, single mix-mic version, maybe with cut down instrumentation for low RAM usage. So like BBCSO but perhaps with lite, core (current SSO), and pro (SSO with additional mics). I think the latter two levels have to be there and in line with the Kontakt version just to keep from pissing people off by either charging for the port or offering more of a downgrade to port.

Given that they are doing an announcement and all, I also have to think this will be more than just a straight port. So perhaps some additional content.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 21, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Unless the "new standard version" is sufficiently different enough to be classed as a "new product" = no free download.


Who knows, and situations obviously change, but that's not what SF promised back when they offered the closeout on the additional mics. The offer then was that you'd get the ported version at no cost if you bought the additional mics then.


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 21, 2021)

Its already confirmed there's the "core" product which is the SSO, and the pro version with the extra mics. They wrote this in one of their support pages. https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001335573
The question is will there be a discover version, and what updates are there in store?


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 21, 2021)

Also, they have a new tweet:


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 21, 2021)

Quote from their Twitter : " the Live Premiere of our highly anticipated addition to the Spitfire Symphony Orchestra range! "

So, do you think the new additions are more Mics, or more than that ?


----------



## dedene (Apr 21, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Quote from their Twitter : " the Live Premiere of our highly anticipated addition to the Spitfire Symphony Orchestra range! "
> 
> So, do you think the new additions are Mics, or more than that ?


I hope it will be more.. or if it’s the mics only at least it’s in their new player 😊


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 21, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Who knows, and situations obviously change, but that's not what SF promised back when they offered the closeout on the additional mics. The offer then was that you'd get the ported version at no cost if you bought the additional mics then.


I remember that too, but Dr Evil was thinking more along the lines of the standard 3 signal versions. 👍


muziksculp said:


> Quote from their Twitter : " the Live Premiere of our highly anticipated addition to the Spitfire Symphony Orchestra range! "
> 
> So, do you think the new additions are Mics, or more than that ?


Ooo..can’t think of an orchestral instrument they haven’t already “aired”. Maybe they’re referring to a new “core” or summit.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 21, 2021)

dedene said:


> I hope it will be more.. or if it’s the mics only at least it’s in their new player 😊


I hope so, because only more mics is boring to me


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 21, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Quote from their Twitter : " the Live Premiere of our highly anticipated addition to the Spitfire Symphony Orchestra range! "
> 
> So, do you think the new additions are more Mics, or more than that ?


Given that they are doing a big announcement, it would seem highly likely that there is more on offer than that.


Alex Fraser said:


> Ooo..can’t think of an orchestral instrument they haven’t already “aired”. Maybe they’re referring to a new “core” or summit.


There are few. Studio Brass has a euphonium and piccolo trumpet. They could add an Eb clarinet and saxes. They could add Wagner tubas. Throughout the range there are a lot of articulations that could be added, and those would likely prove more useful than new instruments. Obviously not as flashy though for advertising purposes.


----------



## RogiervG (Apr 21, 2021)

"highly anticipated addition*s*" .. that would be fixes and extra mics and piano and choir and lower price (or core edition) etc etc

Thank you SA for doing all these addtions... thanks


i am sure it will be something good.. "Hi this is Rogier from my office and i am very excited"


----------



## Chungus (Apr 21, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Ooo..can’t think of an orchestral instrument they haven’t already “aired”.


Perhaps they repaired the organ at Air, and sampled that. (I highly doubt it.  )


----------



## RogiervG (Apr 21, 2021)

Chungus said:


> Perhaps they repaired the organ at Air, and sampled that. (I highly doubt it.  )


Symphonic Interstellar Organ


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 21, 2021)

It occurs to me that SSO also contains Masse, so it's possible that they completely retooled that for the new player and found a way to make it somewhat more useful.


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 21, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> It occurs to me that SSO also contains Masse, so it's possible that they completely retooled that for the new player and found a way to make it somewhat more useful.


That would be great, I have SSO and never use Masse, never understood the purpose


----------



## RogiervG (Apr 21, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> It occurs to me that SSO also contains Masse, so it's possible that they completely retooled that for the new player and found a way to make it somewhat more useful.


that would not be the highly anticipated addition imho.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 21, 2021)

The only thing I can think of that folk have been “anticipating” are those extra mics = new pro version.

But then it stands to reason that if SF did a new player conversion, they might as well update the standard library too.

But then if you do that, it’s only a small puddle jump to some sort of “core” version. Etc etc etc. Around we go. 🤪

And does “composer’s favourite” refer to a particular instrument, or the library itself? My, that’s a craftily worded tweet.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 21, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> that would not be the highly anticipated addition imho.


The big thing is obviously the port. And the long promised solo trombone legato.

The question I have is what more? Even being an old trombone player, finally having the solo trombone legato doesn't warrant a roll out like this. (And I really doubt we'll see the solo trombone legato in this release.) The port of the library doesn't really warrant this treatment, either, however they slice and dice it into various offerings, and even if they remodularize it. If I had to guess, I'd say they likely added some new articulations on the order of what they did for HZS. Maybe some additional shorts and legatos for the strings that brings SSS more in line with SCS, maybe adding articulations to the woodwinds that bring everything in line with the flutes. And, yes, maybe the solo trombone legato!

If Masse was reconceived more along the lines of the special edition Apertures, say, that might be interesting.


----------



## mybadmemory (Apr 21, 2021)

My guess would be that Spitfire as a company is going for the mass market. There’s only a limited amount of pro composers and sample library hoarders with unlimited economy available, and while this smaller crowd might be enough to sustain a smaller company, at the size they are now, they must probably reach a broader mass of hobbyists and wannabes to stay alive.

Which I also think is what all of their latest pricing models and product lines have gone for. Labs. Originals. Discover, Core, Pro. Free stuff. Cheap stuff. And staggered upgrade paths. Therefore my guess is a repackaged SSO, in the new player, with different versions at different prices. But we’ll see.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 21, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> My guess would be that Spitfire as a company is going for the mass market. There’s only a limited amount of pro composers and sample library hoarders with unlimited economy available, and while this smaller crowd might be enough to sustain a smaller company, at the size they are now, they must probably reach a broader mass of hobbyists and wannabes to stay alive.
> 
> Which I also think is what all of their latest pricing models and product lines have gone for. Labs. Originals. Discover, Core, Pro. Free stuff. Cheap stuff. And staggered upgrade paths. Therefore my guess is a repackaged SSO, in the new player, with different versions at different prices. But we’ll see.


Totally agree. If you’re going to spend dev time and money on a conversion, it would have to be more than “here’s a shiny new version of the thing you already have.” ROI and all that.


----------



## lettucehat (Apr 21, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> My guess would be that Spitfire as a company is going for the mass market. There’s only a limited amount of pro composers and sample library hoarders with unlimited economy available, and while this smaller crowd might be enough to sustain a smaller company, at the size they are now, they must probably reach a broader mass of hobbyists and wannabes to stay alive.
> 
> Which I also think is what all of their latest pricing models and product lines have gone for. Labs. Originals. Discover, Core, Pro. Free stuff. Cheap stuff. And staggered upgrade paths. Therefore my guess is a repackaged SSO, in the new player, with different versions at different prices. But we’ll see.


This has pretty clearly been their approach. If I had to guess what the new thing is, based on the larger strategy, it's a consolidated SSO (hi EastWest!) in the new player with added content (Masse, Organ, JB Percussion?) but greatly reduced mics for an entry-level version in the mid-hundreds costwise. I know I'd like that very much!


----------



## Marsen (Apr 21, 2021)

I hate the player. Never bought anything which uses their own player.
If they leave Kontakt, I'm out.


----------



## RogiervG (Apr 21, 2021)

Marsen said:


> I hate the player. Never bought anything which uses their own player.
> If they leave Kontakt, I'm out.


they promised to not fully leave kontakt as a platform .. and also remain supporting their kontakt offerings.
(it likely they continue to ALSO offer the SSO for kontakt, when they port it over to their own player)


----------



## Go To 11 (Apr 21, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> Also, they have a new tweet:



'Like you've never heard before' implies some new content, because we've heard the expanded mic mixes before. Some of us has had them for the past few years they've been offline publicly.


----------



## jamwerks (Apr 21, 2021)

They'll undoubtedly quite using Kontakt for new libraries once their own player will be on par with it. That may be a year or two off, but who knows.

Doesn't SCS have several legati that SSS doesn't? That might be some of the new content for SSS?


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 21, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Doesn't SCS have several legati that SSS doesn't? That might be some of the new content for SSS?


More than a few more!


----------



## turnerofwheels (Apr 21, 2021)

I vote for add on, not change over.

Just the thought of building a template for the entire symphony and having to manage hundreds of SF player instances with one per articulation is giving me a carpal tunnel flare up


----------



## mybadmemory (Apr 21, 2021)

lettucehat said:


> This has pretty clearly been their approach. If I had to guess what the new thing is, based on the larger strategy, it's a consolidated SSO (hi EastWest!) in the new player with added content (Masse, Organ, JB Percussion?) but greatly reduced mics for an entry-level version in the mid-hundreds costwise. I know I'd like that very much!


Fingers crossed!


----------



## RogiervG (Apr 21, 2021)

are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet?


----------



## jamwerks (Apr 21, 2021)

Listened again the the SSS walk-through from a few years back. The ord-con sord. combo sounds lovely. Would love a full legato of that art!


----------



## daan1412 (Apr 21, 2021)

A "core" version of SSO would be nice. BBCSO Core proves to be a great concept, so it seems like a SSO counterpart could be a success. I'd be interested if the price point was somewhere between BBCSO Core and Pro, even if that would mean a few articulations less and/or one mixed signal.


----------



## RogiervG (Apr 21, 2021)

they mention: next library (which is in the symphony series, as they hinted earlier), that could indeed be a core edition, just like they hinted towards a next library with the annoucement in april/may last year, which later appeared to be the core and discover version


----------



## mussnig (Apr 21, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> they mention: next library (which is in the symphony series, as they hinted earlier), that could indeed be a core edition, just like they hinted towards a next library with the annoucement in april/may last year, which later appeared to be the core and discover version


Nah, but last year it was announced to be a "Game Changer" - didn't see/read something like that for this release


----------



## Brasart (Apr 21, 2021)

I own nothing from SSO, so I would be indeed pretty interested in a core package with a few less articulations and one mic mix


----------



## MA-Simon (Apr 21, 2021)

So uh, Albion VI ? HAVE I WON? DO I GET IT FOR FREE?


----------



## mybadmemory (Apr 21, 2021)

A core version as complete an all-in-one as BBCSO, including not just the SS strings, brass, and winds, but also the air percussion and harp, would be interesting. Though for some reason they didn’t go that route with AROOF. So will we see a third route here? 🤔


----------



## mussnig (Apr 21, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> A core version as complete an all-in-one as BBCSO, including not just the SS strings, brass, and winds, but also the air percussion and harp, would be interesting. Though for some reason they didn’t go that route with AROOF. So will we see a third route here? 🤔



You don’t really know that yet about AROOF. Maybe once their modular Abbey Road libraries are released, they will release some type of Abbey Road Core package. But it's still going to be a couple of years until then ...


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 21, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> A core version as complete an all-in-one as BBCSO, including not just the SS strings, brass, and winds, but also the air percussion and harp, would be interesting. Though for some reason they didn’t go that route with AROOF. So will we see a third route here? 🤔


I think PT mentioned that they pivoted towards AROOF as a way of getting an Abbey Road release out sooner rather than later (and presumably to get some ROI) as the modular project is considered a long term thing. 

I dunno. The SSO Staffpad and Luna versions already show that SF are happy to use the older Air recordings as a way to release cheaper versions of the orchestra. I guess it’s only logical they’d follow through at some point with a “Core” style offering. Plus with BBCSO on the scene, I wonder how many folk are still plunking down for the complete SSO plus harp (still a full Kontakt only offering!) plus JB perc etc. Can’t be all that many can it?


----------



## ZeeCount (Apr 21, 2021)

I just noticed my Spitfire Audio Update app is now listing the SSO as "Professional". I bought the mics expansion when they put it on that discontinuation sale a few years ago.


----------



## easyrider (Apr 21, 2021)

ZeeCount said:


> I just noticed my Spitfire Audio Update app is now listing the SSO as "Professional". I bought the mics expansion when they put it on that discontinuation sale a few years ago.


How much did you pay for the extra mics?


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 21, 2021)

They cost me £ 99 per section......


----------



## ZeeCount (Apr 21, 2021)

easyrider said:


> How much did you pay for the extra mics?


They were $99 each. Here's a screenshot from the email from August 2018:

*



*


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 21, 2021)

ZeeCount said:


> They were $99 each. Here's a screenshot from the email from August 2018:
> 
> *
> 
> ...


And you got a discount for BML libraries you had purchased before SSO came out.


----------



## easyrider (Apr 21, 2021)

So the upgrade to pro for all three should be £300?


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 21, 2021)

easyrider said:


> So the upgrade to pro for all three should be £300?


No, that was the insane sale price, I would think $300 PER library just like SCS


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 21, 2021)

easyrider said:


> So the upgrade to pro for all three should be £300?


That wasn’t the going price but the sale price. But the market is also quite different today. So it’s anybody’s guess.


----------



## RMH (Apr 21, 2021)

LUNA Spitfire Bundle | UAD Audio Plugins | Universal Audio


The LUNA Spitfire Bundle lets you create with world-class, expertly sampled String, Brass, and Woodwind Collections.




www.uaudio.com








I really really want you to change the entire interface like this. Who am I supposed to tag for this? @?
The existing UI is too too small!


And it's 2 a.m. tomorrow in Korean time, so I can't see it, but I'm really looking forward to the presentation.


----------



## easyrider (Apr 22, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> No, that was the insane sale price, I would think $300 PER library just like SCS


£900 on top of a £1699 collection is £2599

😱


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

easyrider said:


> £900 on top of a £1699 collection is £2599
> 
> 😱


Well it makes sense, and also they would probably discount the bundle as well


----------



## constaneum (Apr 22, 2021)

I really hope SSB will be more usable after the port. Really need more love, that library. The a6 patches still not that usable.


----------



## gst98 (Apr 22, 2021)




----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> That wasn’t the going price but the sale price. But the market is also quite different today. So it’s anybody’s guess.


I was thinking that this morning. Five years or so back, it's unlikely SF would have recorded the Mrs Mills piano and offered it up for only £29. BBCSO Core can get below £300 with a Discovery discount plus sale.

That's the most interesting thing to me about today's announcement. I'm a fan of the SF player, but I'm more interested to see if there's a price point shuffle, especially with the Abbey Road modular orchestra being billed as the new hotness in town.


----------



## easyrider (Apr 22, 2021)

I own SSO reckon there will be upgrade deals for current users ?

why did they withdraw the sale of the mics ?


----------



## Akarin (Apr 22, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Totally agree. If you’re going to spend dev time and money on a conversion, it would have to be more than “here’s a shiny new version of the thing you already have.” ROI and all that.



EW just did that and they charge $500 for it 🤣


----------



## gst98 (Apr 22, 2021)

They keep on saying a new release which makes me think it isn't a port. But there isn't much else to do, maybe symphonic choir?


----------



## gedlig (Apr 22, 2021)

Whatever they're announcing today, if it's in their own player, I hope it comes with a player update that adds sample purging and the ability to disable articulations (them being greyed out and unloaded, but still visible) instead of just deleting them from the articulation selection.


----------



## mybadmemory (Apr 22, 2021)

gedlig said:


> Whatever they're announcing today, if it's in their own player, I hope it comes with a player update that adds sample purging and the ability to disable articulations (them being greyed out and unloaded, but still visible) instead of just deleting them from the articulation selection.


that would be SO welcome! a simple alt-click like in CSS for example!


----------



## prodigalson (Apr 22, 2021)

gst98 said:


> They keep on saying a new release which makes me think it isn't a port. But there isn't much else to do, maybe symphonic choir?


That would be strange considering the tease was almost entirely woodwinds. 

I had a suspicion it might be like a low woodwinds add-on to SSW but I also think that would be strange to do at this point...


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> That would be strange considering the tease was almost entirely woodwinds.
> 
> I had a suspicion it might be like a low woodwinds add-on to SSW but I also think that would be strange to do at this point...


SSW has bass clarinet, contrabass clarinet, bassoon, contrabassoon, isn't that low WWs? Unless you mean ensemble patch, and I think Masse also has that


----------



## Go To 11 (Apr 22, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> That would be strange considering the tease was almost entirely woodwinds.
> 
> I had a suspicion it might be like a low woodwinds add-on to SSW but I also think that would be strange to do at this point...


Getting all three in this new teaser. I think it's safe to say from the previous photo of the app that it's the expanded mics for all Symphonic strings, brass and winds. What else is the fun part that we don't know!


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 22, 2021)

It would be a bit strange to suddenly add new instruments to the collection. How many years old now are the base SSO recordings? Got to be more than 6-7 years now. JB perc even more.

I think my bet is new player, “pro-all -the-mics” versions but with a switch up/remix/single signal for the lower end of the range, possibly with added harp, piano etc etc.

Seems strange that the full SSO experience is still spread across so many individual products (including a couple of ancient player only ones) so maybe today’s event is brought to you by the letter C for consolidation.

Maybe, just maybe, we’ll get a BBCSO style SSO product with highlights from the multiple libraries bolted together in one plugin, targeted at the BBCSO crowd. That would be a thing.

“Spitfire Symphony Orchestra: Special Edition” or thereabouts.


----------



## lucianogiacomozzi (Apr 22, 2021)

I'm hoping there's a way for me to complete my collection cheaper with this announcement, only got Symphonic Brass (as individual BML libraries and then got an upgrade when it was discontinued) and Chamber Strings, but would love to get the woodwinds too. And Symphonic Strings too, obviously.


----------



## Artemi (Apr 22, 2021)

do these mics make a difference though? except the outriggers


----------



## Go To 11 (Apr 22, 2021)

Artemi said:


> do these mics make a difference though? except the outriggers


The Symphonic has leader mics, which are close up on the 1st chair, but most importantly they also come with the Jake Jackson mixes, which are a great shortcut to 3x flavours without spending hours tweaking.


----------



## prodigalson (Apr 22, 2021)

Go To 11 said:


> Getting all three in this new teaser. I think it's safe to say from the previous photo of the app that it's the expanded mics for all Symphonic strings, brass and winds. What else is the fun part that we don't know!



that makes more sense lol.


----------



## Stringtree (Apr 22, 2021)

My guess is that SSO is rebranded as PROFESSIONAL, and access to various parts is broadened to a mass-market audience in Originals releases. Win-win. 

New mics are a really specialist interest. But there's a ton of people who want some of the sound without having to spring for the full brass, strings, or woodwinds. 

So professional-minded folks can upgrade their Kontakt stuff with new mics, newbies get to have a taste of really good tools. Since I only have the strings, it would be nice to have brass and ww that match. 

The timeless composer favorite is... the orchestra.


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

Hopefully not... SSO costs a lot of money and releasing parts of it using Originals seems like a slap on the face for SSO users. But I doubt that would happen as Originals are made from discontinued libraries


----------



## gst98 (Apr 22, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> That would be strange considering the tease was almost entirely woodwinds.
> 
> I had a suspicion it might be like a low woodwinds add-on to SSW but I also think that would be strange to do at this point...


I hadn't seen that when I said that. I just thought it was strange they say 'new release', and 'adding to' if it was a new player, and choir is the only thing missing. Seems to be a strange way to phrase it. But otherwise, I think it is still the most likely thing to happen then.


----------



## Go To 11 (Apr 22, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> Hopefully not... SSO costs a lot of money and releasing parts of it using Originals seems like a slap on the face for SSO users. But I doubt that would happen as Originals are made from discontinued libraries


They were... Originally. Now they have lots of new releases on originals - pianos/ marching drums. But I agree this doesn't seem like an Originals thing.


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

Go To 11 said:


> They were... Originally. Now they have lots of new releases on originals - pianos/ marching drums. But I agree this doesn't seem like an Originals thing.


Yea, but they never use current libraries for Originals, which is good IMO


----------



## Peter Satera (Apr 22, 2021)

Yeah. I can see it being broken down, into Core and Pro not so much originals. Or it could start something like...

"Hi, I'm Paul Thomson and I'm very excited to speak to you about our discontinuation of Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra. Those that downloaded the updates before our announcement, you now have an STD."


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 22, 2021)

Have I cracked the riddle?
*"Spitfire Symphony Orchestra: Composer Edition"*

_"We’ve taken the best instruments, highlights and mic signals from over a decade of deep sampling at Air Lyndhurst studios and assembled them into a single, cohesive collection.”_

*The pitch:* A BBCSO style release featuring highlights from across the SSO range, inc harp, percussion etc to form a "complete orchestra in a box." All pro mic signals included where available. Perhaps a "Core" version to follow.

*Notes:*

Spitfire is currently hyping a new _release_ (singular) - doesn't sound like multiple "pro versions" updates.
Opens the SSO range to a new market/customer base.
BBCSO sold like barn stormers. So the concept works?
Existing Kontakt products remain on sale for now with a promise of updated player/pro versions to follow. That might explain the recent updates.
Right, I really must do some actual work today. You lot are too much of a distraction. 😉


----------



## Stringtree (Apr 22, 2021)

"That's what she said!" (pointing at self)
Yeah, not Originals, I couldn't guess what they'd call it, but limited arts in a new form factor, and augmentation of the professional range. It's not like they've been able to record a whole lot of big ensembles lately. 

Just about 2.5 hours to go, so I guess we'll find out soon enough. New markets.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 22, 2021)

Stringtree said:


> "That's what she said!" (pointing at self)
> Yeah, not Originals, I couldn't guess what they'd call it, but limited arts in a new form factor, and augmentation of the professional range. It's not like they've been able to record a whole lot of big ensembles lately.
> 
> Just about 2.5 hours to go, so I guess we'll find out soon enough. New markets.


😂 Sorry, Stringtree. Just saw that.
Yes, I think you're on the 100% on the money - new markets and a way to leverage existing assets etc etc, although I suspect it won't be a popular move for some.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

easyrider said:


> why did they withdraw the sale of the mics ?


My understanding is that Native Instruments changed the rules on how these add-on libraries worked and SF determined that making additional Kontakt player libraries (like SCS Pro) wouldn’t sell enough volume to pay for the Kontakt Player licenses, especially since the idea was to eventually port the full thing to their own player. At the time it seems like they thought the port would be ready in several months. Obviously that didn’t happen.


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

Looks like theres new demos 
Edit: IGNORE


----------



## Go To 11 (Apr 22, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> Looks like theres new demos


Good spot! https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-symphonic-brass/


----------



## mussnig (Apr 22, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> Looks like theres new demos


These are all a couple of years old. Just look at their Soundcloud page ...


----------



## Go To 11 (Apr 22, 2021)

Ah yes:


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

mussnig said:


> These are all a couple of years old. Just look at their Soundcloud page ...


Yea just realized that lol, but seems like they just put it on the page


----------



## Stringtree (Apr 22, 2021)

You all would be so fun in a scavenger hunt! So, what I hear from these is dry n' close, not any pronounced legato. Any more clues?


----------



## Kevperry777 (Apr 22, 2021)

Just for the fun of it, I’ll speculate a cheaper spitfire player core kind of SSO offering as well. $800 price point for strings is hefty among great competition.


----------



## turnerofwheels (Apr 22, 2021)

I hadn't browsed the website in a while, since when did Masse become available as an individual purchase?

Maybe we'll get a BWW soloists equivalent for the SF range 

off topic: I see no reason why there couldn't be new content factoring in pandemic restricitons. It took years to assemble these libraries, and they still have the hall and mics. That's why we got symphonic string evolutions a few years ago


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

SSO Pro confirmed:





Spitfire Symphonic Strings


Spitfire explain why they are taking their existing "Mural" Symphonic Strings range off sale and introduce its replacement, the new "Spitfire Symphonic Strings" & FAQ




www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)

Looking forward to see Paul Super Excited to show us what's new in their Symphonic Orchestra.

tic-toc- tic- toc- .. .. .. Less than an hour away now.


----------



## doctoremmet (Apr 22, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> BBCSO sold like barn stormers


Only EW Pop Brass ever outsold it.


----------



## Stringtree (Apr 22, 2021)

(Announcer) You heard it here First, Ladies and Gentlemen.


----------



## turnerofwheels (Apr 22, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> SSO Pro confirmed:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, if they're just bringing back an old product as a new one that would explain the relative lack of hype (3 day buildup) compared to if it had been new content. Still odd tho


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 22, 2021)

Seems like a big event if all they were announcing was additional mics in the Kontakt version.


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 22, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Seems like a big event if all they were announcing was additional mics in the Kontakt version.


Maybe it is just the additional mics for the kontakt versions. Guess will find out very soon.


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

They reduced the price
SSO and SSO Chamber Edition = $999
Symphony Complete = $1399


----------



## turnerofwheels (Apr 22, 2021)

Does anyone have the additional mics for the woodwinds? I'm mostly curious about the usability of the close mics


----------



## doctoremmet (Apr 22, 2021)

Wait. So depending on the actual announcement it is either a big event, or an underwhelming one? Isn’t there a word for this? A wavefunction collapse or something? Schrödinger’s Cat? Spitfire’s Cat?


----------



## Stringtree (Apr 22, 2021)

Whatever else is included, this will blast the doors open on an already great library. Not everything needs the big hall. (Announcer) Now no pushing, single-file, tickets, please!


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 22, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> They reduced the price
> SSO and SSO Chamber Edition = $999
> Symphony Complete = $1399


That would make SSO and SSO chamber editions the same price as BBCSO Pro


----------



## SupremeFist (Apr 22, 2021)

Can't wait for Christian to call this "the ideal starting point".


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

John R Wilson said:


> That would make SSO and SSO chamber editions the same price as BBCSO Pro


I'm honestly quite confused, SSS, SSW, SSB are the same price (no price reduction). Unless the save 50% off is to the SSO already


----------



## Stringtree (Apr 22, 2021)

John R Wilson said:


> That would make SSO and SSO chamber editions the same price as BBCSO Pro


AAAA! Where's my tax refund?!


----------



## robgb (Apr 22, 2021)

An Air Lyndhurst impulse response?


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)




----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Symphonic Strings Professional


Spitfire Symphonic Strings Professional offers the ultimate level of choice and control in symphonic strings sampling - the most of any Spitfire Audio library



www.spitfireaudio.com




$180 for extra mics for existing SSO users


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 22, 2021)

Hang on though...

It would be odd to release details on all the spoils on the website before the big 5pm "reveal" - right? 🤔


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Hang on though...
> 
> It would be odd to release details on all the spoils on the website before the big 5pm "reveal" - right? 🤔


Well they did this plenty of times


----------



## Sarah Mancuso (Apr 22, 2021)

I'm happy that it's seemingly still in Kontakt.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

It looks like it's staying in Kontakt.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)




----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

On the other hand I have a weird new price given that I already have the additional mics.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Apr 22, 2021)

Kontakt Kontakt Kontakt!


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> On the other hand I have a weird new price given that I already have the additional mics.


Paul's walkthrough looks the exact same as the flash sale one, right?


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 22, 2021)

Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Symphony Orchestra


Spitfire Symphony Orchestra provides all the tools to create blockbuster symphonic works - Woodwinds, Brass, Strings and additional samples with Masse.



www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 22, 2021)

YouTube description:

Composer and Spitfire Audio co-founder Paul Thomson shares an overview of the new Spitfire Symphony Orchestra Professional libraries which *complete our Spitfire Symphony Orchestra range. *"

So there you have it, I guess. Also no direct link to the pro stuff yet on the site.
I liked my idea better. 😂
At least they reduced the price...


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 22, 2021)

Looks like it is essentially just new professional editions with the additional mics.


----------



## turnerofwheels (Apr 22, 2021)

So today's news, they ditched the product then brought it back with a new name. Got it 😂


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> YouTube description:
> 
> Composer and Spitfire Audio co-founder Paul Thomson shares an overview of the new Spitfire Symphony Orchestra Professional libraries which *complete our Spitfire Symphony Orchestra range. *"
> 
> ...


The big news seems to be that they have given up the idea of porting SSO to the SF Player. I guess that it remaining in Kontakt is one way to differentiate it from BBCSO and the new Abbey Road modular orchestra.


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> YouTube description:
> 
> Composer and Spitfire Audio co-founder Paul Thomson shares an overview of the new Spitfire Symphony Orchestra Professional libraries which *complete our Spitfire Symphony Orchestra range. *"
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure it will be the same price, the individual libraries are still the same price, I'm guessing $999 is the sale price of 50% off, as we know last years Hurwitz deal was 898 at 60% off. 
Links for pro: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-symphonic-strings-professional/








Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Symphonic Brass Professional


Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds is our definitive brass orchestra, offering the ultimate level of choice and control - the most of any Spitfire Audio library.



www.spitfireaudio.com












Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds Professional


Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds is our definitive woodwind orchestra, offering the ultimate level of choice and control - the most of any Spitfire Audio library.



www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> The big news seems to be that they have given up the idea of porting SSO to the SF Player. I guess that it remaining in Kontakt is one way to differentiate it from BBCSO and the new Abbey Road modular orchestra.


You're right, that is the news of the day and we can probably stop pushing the idea now!
Strange though, considering it's already been ported to the new player in some form. (Luna) Perhaps the arrival of Abbey Road has shifted priorities.


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 22, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> You're right, that is the news of the day and we can probably stop pushing the idea now!
> Strange though, considering it's already been ported to the new player in some form. (Luna) Perhaps the arrival of Abbey Road has shifted priorities.


Yeah, I think their main focus is going to be on Abbey Road and the modular libraries.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso (Apr 22, 2021)

Whatever their reasoning for it, I'm relieved that they're keeping SSO in Kontakt, because it caters more to power users than their locked-down custom player does.


----------



## jonathanwright (Apr 22, 2021)

Whatever it is, I just added it to my cart and was told I already own it.


----------



## MarcelM (Apr 22, 2021)

repacking old librarys seems really be pretty common these days for some devs. well, id be ok if they release a stripped down version with just the tree mic.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)

Well, since they didn't port them to their Player, they might have done more work to release some part/s the AR1 Modular Orchestra this year.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 22, 2021)

Well, I for one promise never to link to the "Luna Editions" ever again as "evidence"
Pinky swear. 😂


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

Hey, Christian is very excited. Stealing Paul's thunder!


----------



## mybadmemory (Apr 22, 2021)

Dang. Was really hoping for SSO Core in SF Player!


----------



## Manaberry (Apr 22, 2021)

So they just removed the addmics from the store back in 2018 and release them again 3 years later as Pro?


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Dang. Was really hoping for SSO Core in SF Player!


The normal SSO is SSO Core now


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

Manaberry said:


> So they just removed the addmics from the store back in 2018 and re-released them again 3 years later as Pro?


Exactly, I don't get this release


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> Exactly, I don't get this release


I think they finally gave up on the work of porting the library. In the YouTube chat, Christian left open the possibility that they may still port SSO.


----------



## turnerofwheels (Apr 22, 2021)

It's weird how many people on youtube are asking for SSO to be ported to the player. I guess they aren't working with large templates where multitimbral is kind of necessary to manage everything


----------



## NoamL (Apr 22, 2021)

Artemi said:


> do these mics make a difference though? except the outriggers


I am happy posting this trade secret here because it will get lost amidst the drama, but my current SSO Mix (using Mural so I already had the mics) is entirely made of the Stereo Tree, Outriggers, and Close mics...


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

SHANE TURNER said:


> It's weird how many people on youtube are asking for SSO to be ported to the player. I guess they aren't working with large templates where multitimbral is kind of necessary to manage everything


There are things that would be easier with the SF player, especially if you are using keyswitches. The Kontakt GUI is also cramped and can be hard to work with.


----------



## boxheadboy50 (Apr 22, 2021)

Dafuq?
Okay, so what they did was strip some of the mics out, and then re-release them as two products, one as core and one as Pro. So literally nothing new at all (yet they're treating it as if it's some great new product that's never been seen before). Here I thought this would be something new and cool...

Admittedly, for those who don't own _anything _from this line, it's kind of nice to be able to get the core version for a cheaper price.

As with most Spitfire things, it's brilliant marketing and likely to sell a crapton of copies.


----------



## NoamL (Apr 22, 2021)

boxheadboy50 said:


> Okay, so what they did was strip some of the mics out, and then re-release them as two products


not really, it's more complicated and this is only to the best of my recollection, but....: what is now "SSO" was originally "British Modular Library" released as a ton of smaller pieces. When they all got put together as the three main chunks of "SSO" the instruments got various programming/UI updates and the mic list got boiled down to Close Tree Ambient. Then they said they would release the Alt mics plus Outriggers at some future point together with further bug fixes and updates; which they've now got around to. The reason people are being told they "already own" this product is because they own the old original BML version of the library, back when Spitfire Symphonic Strings was called Mural, and chamber strings was called Sable, and the brass was called Phalanx...

long story short:

- if you own SSO and use it a lot, these new mics are well worth it
- if you've owned "SSO" since the BML days it's worth downloading the bugfixes
- if you don't own SSO nothing really changes for you I guess, the old SSO is still "Core" and you can always buy that and then get the additional mics


----------



## Drundfunk (Apr 22, 2021)

SHANE TURNER said:


> It's weird how many people on youtube are asking for SSO to be ported to the player. I guess they aren't working with large templates where multitimbral is kind of necessary to manage everything


I think the majority are simply beginners who can't see the value in purchasing Kontakt.


----------



## gst98 (Apr 22, 2021)

Does anyone know if the JJ mic mixes are the same as the mural ones? or has there been any adjustment?


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I think they finally gave up on the work of porting the library. In the YouTube chat, Christian left open the possibility that they may still port SSO.


Though it looks like the writing is on the wall for that idea though, doesn’t it? Kind of a relief though. We can stop second guessing.


----------



## turnerofwheels (Apr 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> There are things that would be easier with the SF player, especially if you are using keyswitches. The Kontakt GUI is also cramped and can be hard to work with.


Ah right. I could also see being able to choose from all the mics at the same time being more useful I guess, make use of that "leader" mic with everything else in one instance


----------



## Sarah Mancuso (Apr 22, 2021)

Drundfunk said:


> I think the majority are simply beginners who can't see the value in purchasing Kontakt.


SSO runs in the free Kontakt Player.


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 22, 2021)

I was hoping Chamber strings professional would be at 50% off to get the extra mics. £180 still seems quite a high price just to get the outriggers. Been waiting for it to be at 50% off.


----------



## Drundfunk (Apr 22, 2021)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> SSO runs in the free Kontakt Player.


Good point. Didn't think of that. Then I have no idea why anyone would actually want that.


----------



## boxheadboy50 (Apr 22, 2021)

NoamL said:


> not really, it's more complicated and this is only to the best of my recollection, but....: what is now "SSO" was originally "British Modular Library" released as a ton of smaller pieces. When they all got put together as the three main chunks of "SSO" the instruments got various programming/UI updates and the mic list got boiled down to Close Tree Ambient. Then they said they would release the Alt mics plus Outriggers at some future point together with further bug fixes and updates; which they've now got around to. The reason people are being told they "already own" this product is because they own the old original BML version of the library, back when Spitfire Symphonic Strings was called Mural, and chamber strings was called Sable, and the brass was called Phalanx...
> 
> long story short:
> 
> ...


These mic positions positions were not in SSO before?

O - Outriggers
L - Leader
Cr - Close Ribbon
St - Stereo Pair
G - Gallery


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

SHANE TURNER said:


> Ah right. I could also see being able to choose from all the mics at the same time being more useful I guess, make use of that "leader" mic with everything else in one instance


It's also that you can load all of the articulations into one instance, rather than needing to use UACC, and several patches to get the full range of articulations into one track.


----------



## ridgero (Apr 22, 2021)

John R Wilson said:


> I was hoping Chamber strings professional would be at 50% off to get the extra mics. £180 still seems quite a high price just to get the outriggers. Been waiting for it to be at 50% off.


Only Outriggers?

This Professional edition enhances and provides greater flexibility to the patches from Spitfire Chamber Strings, with four additional microphones for all techniques (excluding Ensembles) - Warm Close Ribbon (Cr), Close Stereo Pair (St) and Gallery (G) signals, as well as Outrigger (O) signals on all techniques with the essential CTA for added warmth.


On top of this, we offer the Fine (F), Medium (M) and Broad (B) stereo mixes for all techniques (except Ensembles) for instantly great sounding mixes, with low CPU/RAM usage, made by award-winning engineer Jake Jackson. Professional offers you over 150GB of additional content to help you make the most of Spitfire Chamber Strings.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Though it looks like the writing is on the wall for that idea though, doesn’t it? Kind of a relief though. We can stop second guessing.


I don't know. There was something about the way Christian said it that made me think the idea had only been temporarily shelved. But it may well have been him just saying that he doesn't know how the business situation might change.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

ridgero said:


> Only Outriggers?
> 
> This Professional edition enhances and provides greater flexibility to the patches from Spitfire Chamber Strings, with four additional microphones for all techniques (excluding Ensembles) - Warm Close Ribbon (Cr), Close Stereo Pair (St) and Gallery (G) signals, as well as Outrigger (O) signals on all techniques with the essential CTA for added warmth.
> 
> ...


The stereo mics are so helpful for writing. One of those mixes should really be included with the CTA mics on the basic library—though that would deincentivize the upgrade to pro.


----------



## MA-Simon (Apr 22, 2021)

NoamL said:


> not really, it's more complicated and this is only to the best of my recollection, but....: what is now "SSO" was originally "British Modular Library" released as a ton of smaller pieces. When they all got put together as the three main chunks of "SSO" the instruments got various programming/UI updates and the mic list got boiled down to Close Tree Ambient. Then they said they would release the Alt mics plus Outriggers at some future point together with further bug fixes and updates; which they've now got around to. The reason people are being told they "already own" this product is because they own the old original BML version of the library, back when Spitfire Symphonic Strings was called Mural, and chamber strings was called Sable, and the brass was called Phalanx...
> 
> long story short:
> 
> ...


The frustrating thing is that I already had most of the BML series. But decided to upgrade to the Symhonic series for ease of use and bugfixes. Which made me essentially loose all those mic positions, including the outrigger, which was part of the base patches back then. Now if I want them back, I would have to get most of the Pro upgrades. That comes to arround 300-400€. I just want these outriggers back.


----------



## turnerofwheels (Apr 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> The stereo mics are so helpful for writing. One of those mixes should really be included with the CTA mics on the basic library—though that would deincentivize the upgrade to pro.


Is that because they are low footprint?

I'm mostly curious about the additional close and leader mics myself.

I might end up picking up the woods and strings expansions eventually. Since these are out now and SF has multiple sales per year, in no rush.


----------



## ridgero (Apr 22, 2021)

I'm very happy with this update. Yeah its not cheap and the marketing is huge, but I was waiting a very long to complete my SSO. It's a long term investment for me.

Thanks


----------



## NoamL (Apr 22, 2021)

btw review of all the alt mics (with reference to Mural / Spitfire Symphonic Strings):

- The (Cr) Close Ribbons: 3/5 an interesting experiment (like the "Vintage" mics in Abbey Road Orchestral Foundations) but they really make the sound dark and not the "pristine 2010s film score recording" sound. Useful for a kind of dark psychological sound

- The (G)allery mics: 3/5. May be useful for people who are running a Spitfire exclusive template and using the Gallery as their finishing cinematic reverb; I don't use them. They may also well be more useful on the brass and winds than the strings!

- The (O)utriggers: 5/5 Just amazing, compare to any major Hollywood soundtrack and you'll see how they help make the sound fill out the stereo space. On strings the outriggers are actually picking up the rear chairs of the V1, V2 and VC sections. The best thing about the outriggers is that they add a sense of space while still having a direct, not ambient, sound.

- The (St)ereo Tree, 4/5. If you find that AIR is a bit too bloomy for your sound (or, hint hint, you want to blend AIR libraries with the Abbey Road ones) then this alternate tree has a more controlled and direct sound. It still sounds like AIR, just a different take. Quality stuff!

- The (L)eader mics, 2/5. It depends on what kind of 1st chair string sound you hear in your head, but for me these are too scratchy. I prefer to bring up the (C)lose for detail and use a different solo strings library

all of JJ's mixes are excellent and you can't go wrong with the Middle one.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

MA-Simon said:


> The frustrating thing is that I already had most of the BML series. But decided to upgrade to the Symhonic series for ease of use and bugfixes. Which made me essentially loose all those mic positions, including the outrigger, which was part of the base patches back then. Now if I want them back, I would have to get most of the Pro upgrades. That comes to arround 300-400€. I just want these outriggers back.


You might check the prices when things stabilize or contact support. When they offered the additional mics before, they discounted them based on BML libraries you had purchased.


----------



## RogiervG (Apr 22, 2021)

hmm i am actually disappointed to be honest.
I actually thought of a core edition (in the BBC SO way) or modular (buy what you need) approach, heck or a pricedrop forever. Not this type of product launch the same thing but only a few mics on top (and even needing to pay for it, while they held it back for years and years..)


----------



## Stringtree (Apr 22, 2021)

I guess after everything, the discount on SCS is nice. That's really where my heart is. There are some really lovely sounds in the mic expansion to SSS but for a month the window is open to getting what I've always wanted. A completely different band with intimate and tender possibilities. It is finished.


----------



## South Thames (Apr 22, 2021)

First time I've ever had to refer to VI Control to even understand what product was being launched!


----------



## SupremeFist (Apr 22, 2021)

South Thames said:


> First time I've ever had to refer to VI Control to even understand what product was being launched!


I still don't understand it. Makes HOOPUS look great value though!


----------



## Mike Fox (Apr 22, 2021)

I honestly couldn’t be more confused about this.

So if I already have SSS, do I get an upgrade price? And what does that get me? More mics?


----------



## Mike Fox (Apr 22, 2021)

South Thames said:


> First time I've ever had to refer to VI Control to even understand what product was being launched!


This! This! This!


----------



## RogiervG (Apr 22, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> I honestly couldn’t be more confused about this.
> 
> So if I already have SSS, do I get an upgrade price? And what does that get me? More mics?


Yep, only mics added.


----------



## easyrider (Apr 22, 2021)

John R Wilson said:


> I was hoping Chamber strings professional would be at 50% off to get the extra mics. £180 still seems quite a high price just to get the outriggers. Been waiting for it to be at 50% off.


They were 50% off last month in the Apex Sale if you owned the core....

I passed at £150....it’s now £180 on their site.


----------



## easyrider (Apr 22, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> I honestly couldn’t be more confused about this.
> 
> So if I already have SSS, do I get an upgrade price? And what does that get me? More mics?


More mics and for me the upgrade is £409 for all three £136 each when before the mics were withdrawn from sale people with SSO got them for £99 each....


----------



## Mike Fox (Apr 22, 2021)

easyrider said:


> More mics and for me the upgrade is £409 for all three £136 each when before the mics were withdrawn from sale people with SSO got them for £99 each....


Wow! This is just as bad as the recent EW launch! 🤣


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

easyrider said:


> More mics and for me the upgrade is £409 for all three £136 each when before the mics were withdrawn from sale people with SSO got them for £99 each....


They did say at the time that they wouldn't offer them again at that price. I mean, times and situation change, and the implication at the time was that they wouldn't be available again for Kontakt, but maybe that figured in the pricing today?


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I don't know. There was something about the way Christian said it that made me think the idea had only been temporarily shelved. But it may well have been him just saying that he doesn't know how the business situation might change.


File it in the same place as “Spitfire Subscription” then. 😅😉


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 22, 2021)

ridgero said:


> Only Outriggers?
> 
> This Professional edition enhances and provides greater flexibility to the patches from Spitfire Chamber Strings, with four additional microphones for all techniques (excluding Ensembles) - Warm Close Ribbon (Cr), Close Stereo Pair (St) and Gallery (G) signals, as well as Outrigger (O) signals on all techniques with the essential CTA for added warmth.
> 
> ...


Yeah it's not just outriggers that you get with pro version of chamber strings but I think that out of the extra mics I would probably only really make use of the added outrigger mic for spitfire chamber strings.


----------



## emilio_n (Apr 22, 2021)

I think my wallet is safe at the moment. 
Keep using BBCSO and wait for the modular AR.


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 22, 2021)

easyrider said:


> They were 50% off last month in the Apex Sale if you owned the core....
> 
> I passed at £150....it’s now £180 on their site.


Were they, not sure how I missed that!


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> I think my wallet is safe at the moment.
> Keep using BBCSO and wait for the modular AR.


It's good that folks have a way to get the additional mics and the JJ mixes again, but that was quite a weird announcement. And CH and PT are still going at it on YouTube more than an hour later...


----------



## prodigalson (Apr 22, 2021)

Personally, so relieved its in Kontakt. I've been waiting for these outriggers since BML was discontinued and can't imagine having to reinstall the entire range in a different player when most of my older projects feature SSO in some way.


----------



## lgmcben (Apr 22, 2021)

So a bug fixes and mics that were once available years ago?


----------



## turnerofwheels (Apr 22, 2021)

It is kind of odd that aside from one mention of the stereo mixes, so far I'm only seeing love for the outrigger mics--even the SF demos were 99% outrigger. Hmm. It does sound good, but people are making the other mics sound not so useful.

Oh well, no need to rush.


----------



## Toecutter (Apr 22, 2021)

I'm so exhausted of these new big announcements and releases, for realz, give us a break... I can't cope with so many awesome things happening at once


----------



## John R Wilson (Apr 22, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> I think my wallet is safe at the moment.
> Keep using BBCSO and wait for the modular AR.


I prefer BBCSO pro. Better recording quality, can get a more dry sound with less reverb tail and more flexibility due to the many mics you get.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 22, 2021)

Well I already had the Orchestra, with the extra mic expansions when they were on sale prior to being withdrawn.

So as far as I am concerned this seems to be nothing more than a rebrand of the product, and not a reboot at all. I certainly don't have any idea what they mean by 'completing' the SSO - it was complete before they removed the additional mics, and now they have merely put them back in and changed the name and there's a new splash screen.

I have a feeling that this was not what was originally planned, and that was planned has now been abandoned now AR is on the menu....


----------



## coprhead6 (Apr 22, 2021)

I have Symphony Complete but will only be getting SSS Pro to match SCS Pro.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

SHANE TURNER said:


> It is kind of odd that aside from one mention of the stereo mixes, so far I'm only seeing love for the outrigger mics--even the SF demos were 99% outrigger. Hmm. It does sound good, but people are making the other mics sound not so useful.
> 
> Oh well, no need to rush.


See @NoamL's post above: 





Spitfire Symphony Orchestra (Professional)


The stereo mics are so helpful for writing. One of those mixes should really be included with the CTA mics on the basic library—though that would deincentivize the upgrade to pro. Is that because they are low footprint? I'm mostly curious about the additional close and leader mics myself. I...




vi-control.net




It has a good rundown on the mics.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)

Mural Vol. 1,2,3 have these additional mics that they are offering for Symphonic Strings Pro. 

Can someone remind me what is the difference between Mural Strings and Symphonic Strings ?


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Mural Vol. 1,2,3 have these additional mics that they are offering for Symphonic Strings Pro.
> 
> Can someone remind me what is the difference between Mural Strings and Symphonic Strings ?


SSS is all the Mural volumes with updated programming and small sample fixes. Performance Legato is new to SSS, as I recall, and possibly the current version of Legato Performance as well.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> SSS is all the Mural volumes with updated programming and small sample fixes. Performance Legato is new to SSS, as I recall, and possibly the current version of Legato Performance as well.


OK. Thanks. 

I guess I can now delete the Murals, and get the Pro version upgrades for my Symphonic Libraries. 

My complete your Symphonic collection to Symphonic Pro Collection price is showing at : $231.13


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> OK. Thanks.
> 
> I guess I can now delete the Murals, and get the Pro version upgrades for my Symphonic Libraries.
> 
> My complete your Symphonic collection to Symphonic Pro Collection price is showing at : $231.13


If you have old projects with Mural that you want to return to, you'll have to replace the Mural instances with SSS if you delete Mural and they may not be quite the same in some details.


----------



## AMBi (Apr 22, 2021)

Happy day! Was patiently waiting for the spring sale to finally pick up Chamber Strings but looks like I don't have to wait now


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> If you have old projects with Mural that you want to return to, you'll have to replace the Mural instances with SSS if you delete Mural and they may not be quite the same in some details.


No, I don't have to worry about that scenario. 

But, thanks for the feedback.


----------



## BasariStudios (Apr 22, 2021)

Can someone please tell me if i need this too?


----------



## Mike Fox (Apr 22, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> I certainly don't have any idea what they mean by 'completing' the SSO


Buzzwords


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)

BasariStudios said:


> Can someone please tell me if i need this too?


I decided to go for the Symphonic Pro Upgrade ($231.13) I think the additional mic options are worth having.


----------



## Monkberry (Apr 22, 2021)

I only have SSS and the upgrade is $180. Don't think I'm going to upgrade for extra mics. I'd rather put the money toward BBCSO Pro.


----------



## Toecutter (Apr 22, 2021)

SHANE TURNER said:


> It's weird how many people on youtube are asking for SSO to be ported to the player. I guess they aren't working with large templates where multitimbral is kind of necessary to manage everything


I agree with Christian,that would be a pain. It's the reason I never bothered moving from Kontakt to Sine (and the fact Sine is buggy af)


----------



## dcoscina (Apr 22, 2021)

I like what they did with the updates to SSB and SSW so I’m looking forward to the additional mics.


----------



## BasariStudios (Apr 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I decided to go for the Symphonic Pro Upgrade ($231.13) I think the additional mic options are worth having.


I Flopped 9n FLOPUS but i got MSS Full and Elite Full...but this does seem interesting too.


----------



## turnerofwheels (Apr 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> See @NoamL's post above:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes that's exactly one of the posts I was talking about. It's not exactly a positive endorsement of the mics I was most interested in--though to be fair subjetive taste is always a part of this


----------



## Patrick Aylett (Apr 22, 2021)

I bought the Brass additional mics during the closing sale a couple of years ago, but its showing my upgrade price to Brass Professional as £120. Is there new additional content?


----------



## Zamenhof (Apr 22, 2021)

Are the Chamber Strings still widely regarded as best in class? I recently purchased 8dio Anthology which is great and cheap, but I’ve always had an eye out for SCS...


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 22, 2021)

Yay! I missed out on these as they were discontinued 5 months or so before I bought SSO. Really wished I could have gotten them then. $180 is pretty reasonable based on the prior price and I won't have to do weird combinations with Kontakt to get mic mixes. 

I'm actually glad this is still in Kontakt. I know how to use Kontakt better.


----------



## RogiervG (Apr 22, 2021)

Zamenhof said:


> Are the Chamber Strings still widely regarded as best in class? I recently purchased 8dio Anthology which is great and cheap, but I’ve always had an eye out for SCS...


Depends on who you ask. Yes they are good, but so is the symphonic strings. 
But there is VSL too, with their newer offerings, that get very good reception.
Etc etc yadda yadda... 
conclusion: it depends on what you want in size and sound.


----------



## Frederick (Apr 22, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Yay! I missed out on these as they were discontinued 5 months or so before I bought SSO. Really wished I could have gotten them then. $180 is pretty reasonable based on the prior price and I won't have to do weird combinations with Kontakt to get mic mixes.
> 
> I'm actually glad this is still in Kontakt. I know how to use Kontakt better.


It's $450 if you'd buy all three...


----------



## Marsen (Apr 22, 2021)

NoamL said:


> btw review of all the alt mics (with reference to Mural / Spitfire Symphonic Strings):





NoamL said:


> - The (O)utriggers: 5/5 Just amazing, compare to any major Hollywood soundtrack and you'll see how they help make the sound fill out the stereo space. On strings the outriggers are actually picking up the rear chairs of the V1, V2 and VC sections. The best thing about the outriggers is that they add a sense of space while still having a direct, not ambient, sound.


So I have SSO and some Albions.

Albion One already comes with the Outriggers.
It´s this sound (slightly out of phase), I´m getting by updating to Pro, or are the Albion Outriggers different sounding?
I mean it´s the same hall, same developer, just bigger orchestra then SSO.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)

I purchased the Symphonic Orchestra Complete Upgrade. ($231.13)

I got the Pro versions of the Symphonic Orch.

*Correction :* I forgot that I had the Pro versions, but had delete them to conserve SSD Space.

This was a True Mr. Magoo moment for me. 

So, I basically I only purchased the additional Libraries I show in the pic below as part of the complete Symph. Orchestra bundle. LOL. They might be very useful to have. 

I already installed the Symph. Strings Pro content, the JJ. custom Stereo Mixes are surely worth having, they sound very good, and help conserve voices, compared to using multiple mics.





Plus these additional Instruments (I didn't know I will be getting these as well) , so this was a very nice surprise


----------



## Frederick (Apr 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I purchased the Symphonic Orchestra Complete Upgrade. ($231.13)
> 
> I got the Pro versions of the Symphonic Orch.
> 
> ...


$231,13? Sounds like you got lucky! For me going from SSO complete to SSO complete PRO would be almost 600 Euro...


----------



## SupremeFist (Apr 22, 2021)

This seems like a useful upgrade for existing users but definitely not something anyone should buy into for the first time.


----------



## Marsen (Apr 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Plus these additional Instruments (I didn't know I will be getting these as well) , so this was a very nice surprise


Then you already had the extra mics, and just payed for the other instruments?


----------



## Toecutter (Apr 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I purchased the Symphonic Orchestra Complete Upgrade. ($231.13)
> 
> I got the Pro versions of the Symphonic Orch.
> 
> ...


This needs to be pinned... at EW's door!!

No joke, amazing customer care. Kudos Spitfire!


----------



## Sarah Mancuso (Apr 22, 2021)

Zamenhof said:


> Are the Chamber Strings still widely regarded as best in class? I recently purchased 8dio Anthology which is great and cheap, but I’ve always had an eye out for SCS...


In my experience, SCS and Adagio/Anthology/Agitato complement each other nicely. I've been using SCS for my bread-and-butter strings, with Adagio/Anthology/Agitato supplementing them for more lyrical playing. SCS is great at what it does and has an incredible amount of content that makes it very versatile.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Apr 22, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> I'm so exhausted of these new big announcements and releases, for realz, give us a break... I can't cope with so many awesome things happening at once


Spitfire giveth and Performance Samples taketh away.


----------



## Henu (Apr 22, 2021)

Checking out a quick HOOPUS video made me realize how much I love the sound of EW Hollywood orchestra strings (which I don't have and don't want to buy for CPU/ RAM reasons). 

I know it's bone-dry compared to the AIR sound, but I was wondering if I could utilize the extra St mic or close+outriggers heavily EQ'd to achieve a sound which is a bit more towards the Hollywood strings. Anyone has any experience on that? I have the extra mics but I don't have any project on my hands I could try it out.


----------



## jamwerks (Apr 22, 2021)

SCS is really awesome on its own, and also the best layering library out there.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 22, 2021)

Was mainly hoping for a discount for completing my SSO - which they gave me. I have Chamber Strings Pro but have not installed the ALT mics. Not sure if I want to take up the additional space if I don't use them much - though sounds like the Outriggers are especially nice.


----------



## Mike Fox (Apr 22, 2021)

Zamenhof said:


> Are the Chamber Strings still widely regarded as best in class? I recently purchased 8dio Anthology which is great and cheap, but I’ve always had an eye out for SCS...


I’m not sure if any string library was ever considered “best in its class”. Maybe HS upon initial release?

But as others have said, it’s all acquired taste. I really dig the long articulations in SCS, but am not a big fan of the shorts. I usually have to layer them with something more aggressive.

Beautiful sounding library all around though.


----------



## star.keys (Apr 22, 2021)

What is new apart from the additional mics for WW and some fixes?


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 22, 2021)

star.keys said:


> What is new apart from the additional mics for WW and some fixes?


The various fixes to the existing SSO libraries were free updates. SSO Professional adds the extra mics and three mixes from JJ.


----------



## Trash Panda (Apr 22, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> Wow! This is just as bad as the recent EW launch! 🤣


No, that train wreck is in an entirely different league of poor launches. It’s like comparing an apple to a worn out tennis ball found at the bottom of the ocean that was dried out and set on fire.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 22, 2021)

As an existing owner of SSO and Chamber Strings, getting the mic expansions for everything through the SSO Pro and SSO Pro Chamber Edition bundles is $605. So $150 for each expansion (SSS, SSB, SSW, and SCS).

Quite reasonable. Although I would have liked to seen the outrigger mic added to the 'base' SSO as a free update, and the rest of the mics and the mixes as the Pro upgrade. Even the Albion libraries have CTAO mics, but SSO only has CTA.

During the stream, I did ask Christian about the possibility of making a version of Masse for owners of the SSO Chamber Edition bundle. It wouldn't be nearly as much work as creating Masse in the first place, since only the strings and tutti patches would need to be re-created.

Christian liked the idea, so I am hoping this becomes a reality. I really would love to hear some of the strings patches in Masse, but using the Chamber Strings samples.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 22, 2021)

Strangely, for the first time ever, me completing the SSO bundle is cheaper than me completing the SSO Chamber Edition bundle - and I get Masse with SSO.

$618 (from owning SSS). More expensive than the OPUS upgrade, but I think will need to see how that one evolves after bug fixes and more walkthroughs / reviews.


----------



## star.keys (Apr 22, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> The various fixes to the existing SSO libraries were free updates. SSO Professional adds the extra mics and three mixes from JJ.


Thanks mate.. I remember buying extra mics many years ago so not sure what is new this time.


----------



## redlester (Apr 22, 2021)

For anyone wondering, if you have SSO core the additional content to go to Pro is an additional 493GB, but the install requires approximately double the size of the content.

So my current drive housing SSO which has 600GB free will not be enough, I would need to relocate it all to a different drive with sufficient space to run the upgrades. I’ve worked out to run the upgrades would require
Strings - approx 304GB free space
Brass - approx 346GB free space
Winds - approx 334GB free space


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 22, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Strangely, for the first time ever, me completing the SSO bundle is cheaper than me completing the SSO Chamber Edition bundle - and I get Masse with SSO.
> 
> $618 (from owning SSS). More expensive than the OPUS upgrade, but I think will need to see how that one evolves after bug fixes and more walkthroughs / reviews.


You can get the SSO Chamber Edition bundle at the same time as the SSO bundle (or afterwards), and you'll get the full discount on Chamber Strings from that bundle. That is how I got Chamber Strings during last year's spring sale. SSO + Harp was $898, then Chamber Strings was $355 by completing the SSO Chamber Edition bundle. I think getting Chamber Strings this way will be even less than that with the current sale.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 22, 2021)

Frederick said:


> It's $450 if you'd buy all three...


This is weird. I clicked on the pro orchestra and it gave me a $180 price to upgrade. So I bought it. Now it is more? 

Well, that is screwed up. I didn't click on the strings, but it seems that is what I bought? And now I pay more?


----------



## coprhead6 (Apr 22, 2021)

Has anyone discovered a practical way to route/combine microphone positions from the normal and alternative sets?
It would be fun to try the ribbon close mics with the tree/outriggers, or add the leader mic to the normal set.

I was hoping that they would have combined everything in this release somehow.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 22, 2021)

redlester said:


> For anyone wondering, if you have SSO core the additional content to go to Pro is an additional 493GB, but the install requires approximately double the size of the content.
> 
> So my current drive housing SSO which has 600GB free will not be enough, I would need to relocate it all to a different drive with sufficient space to run the upgrades. I’ve worked out to run the upgrades would require
> Strings - approx 304GB free space
> ...


You can do them one at a time, you might be able to do it if you go largest -> smallest. Worst case, you can temporarily move some other stuff from that drive onto a different drive, then move it back afterwards.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 22, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> This is weird. I clicked on the pro orchestra and it gave me a $180 price to upgrade. So I bought it. Now it is more?
> 
> Well, that is screwed up. I didn't click on the strings, but it seems that is what I bought? And now I pay more?


Contact support, get a refund for the SSS update that you bought, then get the correct $450 upgrade. As long as you didn't download the entire SSS update yet, you can do this. Otherwise, it will be $300 to complete the SSO Pro bundle (SSB Pro and SSW Pro), so you would end up paying $480 instead of $450.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 22, 2021)

coprhead6 said:


> Has anyone discovered a practical way to route/combine microphone positions from the normal and alternative sets?
> It would be fun to try the ribbon close mics with the tree/outriggers, or add the leader mic to the normal set.
> 
> I was hoping that they would have combined everything in this release somehow.


Just add them in Kontakt set to the same MIDI channel (or omni).


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 22, 2021)

star.keys said:


> Thanks mate.. I remember buying extra mics many years ago so not sure what is new this time.


For people who had the extra mics like you and me, there is nothing new, with the exception of the updates last week and a new icon.


----------



## Jett Hitt (Apr 22, 2021)

Wow, what a great day! I just found out that for the low low price of $450.15, I can make what I thought was my pro copy of Spitifre Symphony Orchestra actually PRO. If I can just get those extra mics, I too will sound like Hans Friggin Zimmer! Off to donate plasma. . . .


----------



## redlester (Apr 22, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> You can do them one at a time, you might be able to do it if you go largest -> smallest. Worst case, you can temporarily move some other stuff from that drive onto a different drive, then move it back afterwards.


Good idea! Never thought of that, and not did Spitfire when I asked.


----------



## Mike Fox (Apr 22, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> No, that train wreck is in an entirely different league of poor launches. It’s like comparing an apple to a worn out tennis ball found at the bottom of the ocean that was dried out and set on fire.


That’s true. At least the product is solid. Lol!


----------



## NoamL (Apr 22, 2021)

Henu said:


> Checking out a quick HOOPUS video made me realize how much I love the sound of EW Hollywood orchestra strings (which I don't have and don't want to buy for CPU/ RAM reasons).
> 
> I know it's bone-dry compared to the AIR sound, but I was wondering if I could utilize the extra St mic or close+outriggers heavily EQ'd to achieve a sound which is a bit more towards the Hollywood strings. Anyone has any experience on that? I have the extra mics but I don't have any project on my hands I could try it out.


it depends how you spatialize em. I have SSS and HWS Diamond sitting side by side in my template but the HWS ones are going to an EW Spaces II Scoring stage preset. But sure, you could get them to blend decently well


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 22, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> That’s true. At least the product is solid. Lol!



It should be, it’s been out already for years.....


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 22, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Contact support, get a refund for the SSS update that you bought, then get the correct $450 upgrade. As long as you didn't download the entire SSS update yet, you can do this. Otherwise, it will be $300 to complete the SSO Pro bundle (SSB Pro and SSW Pro), so you would end up paying $480 instead of $450.


I filled out a contact form. It was weird - there must have been a glitch in the system because the regular price and picture were for the full orchestra, but the upgrade price was $180 and it ended up being only for the strings.


----------



## lettucehat (Apr 22, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> It should be, it’s been out already for years.....


should be, but then there are those who try to squeeze money out of old products that weren't even solid in the first place


----------



## molemac (Apr 22, 2021)

Forgive me for not reading all this but can anyone tell me what I get for upgrading from Full Chamber strings to professional. When I put it in my cart it is charging me 29 euros which suggests I already have it . Or is it new mikes ? Does that mean I will be able to use scs with less of the air room ie get a decent close sound ? Or is it the same as was?


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 22, 2021)

molemac said:


> Forgive me for not reading all this but can anyone tell me what I get for upgrading from Full Chamber strings to professional. When I put it in my cart it is charging me 29 euros which suggests I already have it . Or is it new mikes ? Does that mean I will be able to use scs with less of the air room ie get a decent close sound ? Or is it the same as was?


I think there is something weird going on with their site. I go back there and they still show $180 to upgrade the strings that I accidentally already bought.


----------



## Akarin (Apr 22, 2021)

A lot of people seem to be talking about the outriggers but I am also quite stoked for the JJ mixes as well as the leader mics.

SSS is my favorite "symphonic film" tone and I love to layer it with itself. For example, here, I've used the regular performance legato patches layered with the long con sordino (I wish they had legato as well but playing with the release is good enough when layered):


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 22, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I think there is something weird going on with their site. I go back there and they still show $180 to upgrade the strings that I accidentally already bought.


Individual products still show the price you would pay if you didn't have it. This is only different for bundles, where it shows 'Collection Completed' if you have everything in it. For individual products you already have, a 'You already own this product, remove it from your cart before checking out' warning is displayed if you add it to your cart, and it will not allow you to check out until it is removed.


----------



## Evans (Apr 22, 2021)

Wow, the mixes sound incredible. I wish I needed this, but I suppose I'm already neck deep in the Berlin series.


----------



## Hendrixon (Apr 22, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I filled out a contact form. It was weird - there must have been a glitch in the system because the regular price and picture were for the full orchestra, but the upgrade price was $180 and it ended up being only for the strings.


You thought you were special and getting all the mics for $180 while the rest are asked to pay several hundreds? 
Yea... I can imagine you breaking the speed of light with your mouse cursor looking for that "Add To Cart" button


----------



## molemac (Apr 22, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> You thought you were special and getting all the mics for $180 while the rest are asked to pay several hundreds?
> Yea... I can imagine you breaking the speed of light with your mouse cursor looking for that "Add To Cart" button


WHen I checked in the spitfire downloader the update was already there so I didn’t need to spend the 29euros


----------



## Phillip Dixon (Apr 22, 2021)

Not sure why.. But opened spitfire library manager and all updates there just downloaded.. The only thing I can find to pay for, is harp and concert pno for £25


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 22, 2021)

I didn't even know about the earlier upgrade, and only found out about this one due to a quick mention on the GS board today. For some reason, I keep falling off the Spitfire mailing list even though I keep signing up anew. At any rate, I have a good price quote on the upgrade so am doing it right now, but am curious about the Chamber Strings Professional and how we tell if we already have that one? It's super-expensive, with no discount even for owning the regular edition. Strange.


----------



## easyrider (Apr 22, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I didn't even know about the earlier upgrade, and only found out about this one due to a quick mention on the GS board today. For some reason, I keep falling off the Spitfire mailing list even though I keep signing up anew. At any rate, I have a good price quote on the upgrade so am doing it right now, but am curious about the Chamber Strings Professional and how we tell if we already have that one? It's super-expensive, with no discount even for owning the regular edition. Strange.


SCS pro is a 180 upgrade...


----------



## jamessy (Apr 22, 2021)

Akarin said:


> A lot of people seem to be talking about the outriggers but I am also quite stoked for the JJ mixes as well as the leader mics.
> 
> SSS is my favorite "symphonic film" tone and I love to layer it with itself. For example, here, I've used the regular performance legato patches layered with the long con sordino (I wish they had legato as well but playing with the release is good enough when layered):



Is this with the pro version? I'd be very interested to hear a comparison of a regular mic mix and a pro mic mix


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 22, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I didn't even know about the earlier upgrade, and only found out about this one due to a quick mention on the GS board today. For some reason, I keep falling off the Spitfire mailing list even though I keep signing up anew. At any rate, I have a good price quote on the upgrade so am doing it right now, but am curious about the Chamber Strings Professional and how we tell if we already have that one? It's super-expensive, with no discount even for owning the regular edition. Strange.


Open the Spitfire Download App - it'll tell you if you have Chamber Strings Pro or not.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 22, 2021)

Well, it turns out that I do already have Chamber Strings Professional, even though it doesn't identify itself as such on my hard drive, user manual, etc. The way I found it was to follow the advice above, adding it to my cart, and then seeing the message pop up that I already own it.

I didn't already own Symphony Orchestra Professional though; just the standard edition. I think the original upgrade came out during my trek cross-country to work in North Carolina for a few months, so that's probably how I missed the earlier announcement. Just as well, based on its update history.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 22, 2021)

How curious; the Spitfire Download App says I already have Spitfire Symphonic Brass Professional etc. (along with Spitfire Chamber Strings Professional), and I did download the expansion packs last night when they showed up in the downloader.

I guess my $156 was just for the one thing in the overall package that I didn't already have, which is the Scraped Percussion. Yet the smaller upgrade, just for the Symphony Orchestra Professional, was $150, which is why I did the more complete package.

Perhaps all of this is just confusion over some re-branding, as a quick skim of the 18 pages of this topic indicates that what came out yesterday is somewhat different from the earlier Professional upgrade, which apparently I did do after all.

Anyway, I am confident that the web store would not have allowed me to unnecessarily re-buy the same product twice.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 22, 2021)

Hmm, just got an email saying things are ready to download, but nothing shows up when I re-launch the app, including the Scraped Percussion. I'll try again after lunch.


----------



## Instrugramm (Apr 22, 2021)

Hmmm I own a ton of Spitfire libraries but in the current market (looking at OT's newest library) there's no way I'm paying that kind of price just to get a few mics.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> How curious; the Spitfire Download App says I already have Spitfire Symphonic Brass Professional etc. (along with Spitfire Chamber Strings Professional), and I did download the expansion packs last night when they showed up in the downloader.
> 
> I guess my $159 was just for the one thing in the overall package that I didn't already have, which is the Scraped Percussion. Yet the smaller upgrade, just for the Symphony Orchestra Professional, was $150, which is why I did the more complete package.
> 
> ...


The Scraped Percussion is part of the Symphony Complete Bundle. Whereas the Symphony Orchestra Professional is just SSO with the additional Mics. From that price it seems you have one section where you didn't already own the additional mics.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 22, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Individual products still show the price you would pay if you didn't have it. This is only different for bundles, where it shows 'Collection Completed' if you have everything in it. For individual products you already have, a 'You already own this product, remove it from your cart before checking out' warning is displayed if you add it to your cart, and it will not allow you to check out until it is removed.


I own it - It should tell me I already own it or give me the full price for an additional license. That is what it usually does. Instead, it still gives me the upgrade price.

Edit: Okay, it does catch it in the cart.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 22, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> You thought you were special and getting all the mics for $180 while the rest are asked to pay several hundreds?
> Yea... I can imagine you breaking the speed of light with your mouse cursor looking for that "Add To Cart" button


Someone said it was $180 and not per library. Just "it's $180" So I went and saw that it was and grabbed it. 

Truthfully, I had a little accident with a craft knife last weekend that ended in some stitches, so I haven't been sleeping as well as I usually do. My brain is not fully awake enough to question whether something sounds logical.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 22, 2021)

I'm more confused than ever -- did I spend money for nothing? Everything shows as already installed, including Scraped Percussion, which I had forgotten shows up as Clarvis Scraped Percussion, at the opposite end of the alphabet.

The email specifically mentioned Spitfire Symphonic Strings professional as ready to download. Nothing else; just that one. Yet it too says it is already installed.

This frequent rebranding and relabeling, not to mention repackaging, makes things very complicated for customers, which is why we at least need to feel confident that the order page and the downloader app are always fully accurate and in sync.

Maybe I need to re-boot my computer in order for things to be totally correct status-wise. Either that, or I just spent $156 on duplicate licenses somehow.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 22, 2021)

And yes, I too have had little sleep lately, due to some injuries and other factors. But I concentrated really hard and read things over multiple times before committing to a purchase.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 22, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I'm more confused than ever -- did I spend money for nothing? Everything shows as already installed, including Scraped Percussion, which I had forgotten shows up as Clarvis Scraped Percussion, at the opposite end of the alphabet.
> 
> The email specifically mentioned Spitfire Symphonic Strings professional as ready to download. Nothing else; just that one. Yet it too says it is already installed.
> 
> ...


You need to open the product page and it will show you have extensions that need to be downloaded.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 22, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> And yes, I too have had little sleep lately, due to some injuries and other factors. But I concentrated really hard and read things over multiple times before committing to a purchase.


LOL! At least I found the upgrade!  

Seriously, though, lack of good sleep sucks. I hope you feel better soon.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 22, 2021)

I have no sales receipts from Spitfire past April 2020 (when I became unemployed for the first time in my life, just as I am again since this February). So I don't think I really had the pro stuff yet. Even so, it's strange that the new receipt says Symphony Complete Professional: Spitfire Symphonic Strings professional, whereas I am pretty sure that I clicked on the button for Symphony Complete Professional as a bundle vs. an individual package within.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 22, 2021)

Interesting; the Strings expansion does now show, via its product page. I guess I was given Brass and Woodwinds for free, which probably means that I pre-paid for the full professional version at the time the original version was released, and maybe didn't do that for the strings.

I had previously clicked on the product pages (within the downloader app) for the brass and woodwinds and they just showed the expansion packs from yesterday, which I had installed last night already.

It remains a mystery why I paid $6 more for the total bundle than for just the symphonic orchestra strings update. Maybe one of the other products that I already own in that suite, also had a later professional expansion added, so I'll click on them one by one now.

It's also peculiar that the strings expansion didn't show up under "Not Installed" or "Updates", as did the ones for Brass and Woodwinds last night.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 22, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I have no sales receipts from Spitfire past April 2020 (when I became unemployed for the first time in my life, just as I am again since this February). So I don't think I really had the pro stuff yet. Even so, it's strange that the new receipt says Symphony Complete Professional: Spitfire Symphonic Strings professional, whereas I am pretty sure that I clicked on the button for Symphony Complete Professional as a bundle vs. an individual package within.


That is basically what I did. Does it all show up in your Spitfire App? Or Just the strings?

Never mind, you answered while I was typing.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 22, 2021)

The $6 differential between the two upgrade packages may entitle me to some later updates that I wouldn't get for free otherwise, is all that I can figure at the moment. Wish I'd noticed that Scraped Percussion files itself under Clarvis, which doesn't show up in the product icon.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 22, 2021)

Nevermind; Symphonic Percussion Professional wasn't part of the bundle; due to the same logo and icon style, I assumed it was. I have everything in it already as it is.

So I'll have to guess that the $6 price difference simply entitles me to further updates on the other stuff I already owned, such as the excellent Spitfire Percussion library from Joby Burgess.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 22, 2021)

Scraped Percussion isn't shown in the full bundle when I check now, so I wonder if it got removed, as someone else mentioned it as being part of the bundle as well. Like I said though, I already owned it.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 22, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Scraped Percussion isn't shown in the full bundle when I check now, so I wonder if it got removed, as someone else mentioned it as being part of the bundle as well. Like I said though, I already owned it.


You might want to just contact Spitfire support directly. They're very friendly and good.


----------



## curtisschweitzer (Apr 22, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I'm more confused than ever -- did I spend money for nothing? Everything shows as already installed, including Scraped Percussion, which I had forgotten shows up as Clarvis Scraped Percussion, at the opposite end of the alphabet.
> 
> The email specifically mentioned Spitfire Symphonic Strings professional as ready to download. Nothing else; just that one. Yet it too says it is already installed.
> 
> ...


Trying looking at the actual "installed libraries" in the Spitfire app (i.e. double-clicking them)-- when I thought this was a problem, I noticed there were large "expansion pack" sections that needed to be installed-- presumably this is the "pro" content?


----------



## Hendrixon (Apr 22, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Someone said it was $180 and not per library. Just "it's $180" So I went and saw that it was and grabbed it.
> 
> Truthfully, I had a little accident with a craft knife last weekend that ended in some stitches, so I haven't been sleeping as well as I usually do. My brain is not fully awake enough to question whether something sounds logical.


Ouch! sorry to hear that.
So you're getting all the extra mics?


----------



## Studio E (Apr 22, 2021)

Why is it, that in the Paul Thompson walk-through, the celli patches sound like they have an extra octave of basses playing at the same time? Anyone else notice this? Just go to 2:15 and tell me that THAT is just new mics.


----------



## mdjohnson (Apr 22, 2021)

Anyone know if the $180 per library upgrade price is just the promotional pricing or will it be the same after May 31?


----------



## Monkberry (Apr 22, 2021)

Studio E said:


> Why is it, that in the Paul Thompson walk-through, the celli patches sound like they have an extra octave of basses playing at the same time? Anyone else notice this? Just go to 2:15 and tell me that THAT is just new mics.



I heard that earlier also but there were moments when he was not playing and there was a low rumbling going on, so I'm not sure what the cause is. I'm about to download the update so I'll investigate. I said earlier in this thread that I didn't think I wanted this update just for the extra mics but after watching the full walkthrough I decided to get it as SSS is one of my favorite libraries and they have been addressing fixing samples with updates.


----------



## Marsen (Apr 22, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Someone said it was $180 and not per library. Just "it's $180" So I went and saw that it was and grabbed it.
> 
> Truthfully, I had a little accident with a craft knife last weekend that ended in some stitches, so I haven't been sleeping as well as I usually do. My brain is not fully awake enough to question whether something sounds logical.


You really don't have to explain yourself on such, all fine.
I'm sure, Spitfire will sort it out. 
Can happen to every single one of us, including @Hendrixon


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 22, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> Ouch! sorry to hear that.
> So you're getting all the extra mics?


Yes, after they return the Strings only.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 22, 2021)

mdjohnson said:


> Anyone know if the $180 per library upgrade price is just the promotional pricing or will it be the same after May 31?


It's the sale price. It should be this price again at Christmas or any other 40% sale.


----------



## puremusic (Apr 22, 2021)

I knew I should've bought during the fire sale, I forget why I did not.


----------



## Studio E (Apr 22, 2021)

Monkberry said:


> I heard that earlier also but there were moments when he was not playing and there was a low rumbling going on, so I'm not sure what the cause is. I'm about to download the update so I'll investigate. I said earlier in this thread that I didn't think I wanted this update just for the extra mics but after watching the full walkthrough I decided to get it as SSS is one of my favorite libraries and they have been addressing fixing samples with updates.


If that low-end is all in the mic positions, then I know WAY less about sound than what I thought I did, lol. It definitely sounds like a lower octave to me. Thanks for investigating!


----------



## Hendrixon (Apr 22, 2021)

Studio E said:


> If that low-end is all in the mic positions, then I know WAY less about sound than what I thought I did, lol. It definitely sounds like a lower octave to me. Thanks for investigating!


Hmm you're right.. it does sound like a lower octave! lol


----------



## Hendrixon (Apr 22, 2021)

Marsen said:


> You really don't have to explain yourself on such, all fine.
> I'm sure, Spitfire will sort it out.
> Can happen to every single one of us, including @Hendrixon


Man I've done some stupid things in my life I'm ashamed that I even remember them lol


----------



## Monkberry (Apr 22, 2021)

Studio E said:


> If that low-end is all in the mic positions, then I know WAY less about sound than what I thought I did, lol. It definitely sounds like a lower octave to me. Thanks for investigating!


142 GB download. It will be more than a few minutes or so. Definitely sounded like an octave lower than the low C from the cello. The original library does have a "boomy" sound though with the CTA mics in Lyndhurst Hall.


----------



## Christopher Rocky (Apr 22, 2021)

Can someone explain to me the necessity of these mics justified by the price? I've gotten this far without the added mics on SCS SSO with cta mics. But I'm looking at 650+ for pro versions. Is it really worth it? Nothing I can mix/eq with cta already? 

I have studio orchestra pro and I absolutely notice the difference in mics there, is it the same with SSO/SCS?

I've been trying to find out if you have to redownload everything again from SSO core or if I upgrade can I just download the additional mics? 

Website says you need 1.5tb free to install SSO from scratch on a drive 🥴


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)

Christopher Rocky said:


> I've been trying to find out if you have to redownload everything again from SSO core or if I upgrade can I just download the additional mics?


You just need to download the update which has the additional mics, it will add them to the library, make sure you target the folder of the library for the download.


----------



## lettucehat (Apr 22, 2021)

IMO outrigger is the best mic, so I see what they did there after having CTAO be standard in the past. But I like things wide and generally don't like the tree and ambient sound at AIR, as awesome as the libraries are overall. I imagine it's more worth it for strings and brass than winds, but also that you could treat the close and tree with some M/S tricks to get a comparable sound.


----------



## Cheezus (Apr 22, 2021)

The lack of outriggers has been one of the things that has turned me off the SSO. Unless I'm using only the close mic for something, I always have the outriggers on.

I enjoyed seeing Christian and Paul play with stuff like the contrabass tuba, bassoon and bass clarinet. I feel like people don't use those instruments in an exposed context very often. They're absolutely right about the hall amplifying the character of those instruments really nicely. The sound of the bass clarinet in particular reminds me of how the Bass Clarinets in Genshin Impact's OST really stood out to me and those were also recorded in Air Lyndhurst.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

Christopher Rocky said:


> Can someone explain to me the necessity of these mics justified by the price? I've gotten this far without the added mics on SCS SSO with cta mics. But I'm looking at 650+ for pro versions. Is it really worth it? Nothing I can mix/eq with cta already?
> 
> I have studio orchestra pro and I absolutely notice the difference in mics there, is it the same with SSO/SCS?
> 
> ...


If you like what you currently have, no, you don’t need them. The mixes are very useful especially if you are RAM constrained. The SSO core and pro have been separate downloads so far. I doubt that’s changed.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)

Cheezus said:


> The lack of outriggers has been one of the things that has turned me off the SSO. Unless I'm using only the close mic for something, I always have the outriggers on.
> 
> I enjoyed seeing Christian and Paul play with stuff like the contrabass tuba, bassoon and bass clarinet. I feel like people don't use those instruments in an exposed context very often. They're absolutely right about the hall amplifying the character of those instruments really nicely. The sound of the bass clarinet in particular reminds me of how the Bass Clarinets in Genshin Impact's OST really stood out to me and those were also recorded in Air Lyndhurst.


+1000. 

Yes, The outriggers really widen up the sound of the sections, making us hear the wide, and beautiful panoramic sound of the sections playing in Air Studios. 

The ambience of Air is wonderful, warm, and sweet. 

imho. Their Symphonic Libraires are not meant to sound dry, or very intimate (although one can experiment if they wish to do that using only the close mics), This is a big orchestra playing, let's say it is meant for producing an Epic, Rich Large Orchestral sound taking advantage of the wonderful acoustics.

I decided to install all of the Additional Pro Mics to all of the Spitfire Symphonic Orch. Sections, I had deleted them a while back to save SSD space, but decided to install them back again. 

The ready J.J. Mixes are great sounding, and help conserve voices, and RAM.


----------



## Project Anvil (Apr 22, 2021)

Sorry if this has already been answered, but does anyone know if the SSW Solo Clarinet Legato is now finally fixed? That thing has had wonky legato transitions and been out of tune since I got the original BML version.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 22, 2021)

Are the pro mics available for ALL articulations? Performance legatos, core, and decorative techniques?


----------



## windyweekend (Apr 22, 2021)

Anyone owning some of this collection already seeing some anomalies with pricing? Looks like the extra mics are twice the price they were a couple of years ago. I'm even being offered SSB Pro for a discount of $180 when I already own all the mics for this. Something not adding up here...


----------



## Monkberry (Apr 22, 2021)

Studio E said:


> Why is it, that in the Paul Thompson walk-through, the celli patches sound like they have an extra octave of basses playing at the same time? Anyone else notice this? Just go to 2:15 and tell me that THAT is just new mics.



So I pulled up the same articulation that Paul is playing Celli / Pizz w CTAO mics and it sounds nothing like what is happening in the video. Somehow it sounds like he has Bass Pizz layered with that but not on my end. I do notice a boominess (made up word) on the F above the low C on the Celli patches but nothing like the video.


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

windyweekend said:


> Anyone owning some of this collection already seeing some anomalies with pricing? Looks like the extra mics are twice the price they were a couple of years ago. I'm even being offered SSB Pro for a discount of $180 when I already own all the mics for this. Something not adding up here...


If you already owned the mics you don't need to buy this


----------



## windyweekend (Apr 22, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> If you already owned the mics you don't need to buy this


I'm definitely not going to buy something I've already got, but I don't have the extra mics for SSS and SSW. These are priced twice what they were two years ago, which seems crazy to me, and this is a discount (?). Wished I'd bought them two years ago now, but figured I'd wait for the new repackaged product that was coming. Now the extra mics are twice the price, which has made me put my wallet away.


----------



## Christopher Rocky (Apr 22, 2021)

windyweekend said:


> I'm definitely not going to buy something I've already got, but I don't have the extra mics for SSS and SSW. These are priced twice what they were two years ago, which seems crazy to me, and this is a discount (?). Wished I'd bought them two years ago now, but figured I'd wait for the new repackaged product that was coming. Now the extra mics are twice the price, which has made me put my wallet away.


Twice the price? ? Seriously? That's horrible if it's true. I agree 180 at 40% for each, just for extra mics seems a bit much. I'd really like to hear some in depth comparisions before jumping in


----------



## windyweekend (Apr 22, 2021)

redlester said:


> For anyone wondering, if you have SSO core the additional content to go to Pro is an additional 493GB, but the install requires approximately double the size of the content.
> 
> So my current drive housing SSO which has 600GB free will not be enough, I would need to relocate it all to a different drive with sufficient space to run the upgrades. I’ve worked out to run the upgrades would require
> Strings - approx 304GB free space
> ...


Just wait until Hans Zimmer Brass comes out. It'll be the first time you'll ever use the word 'petabyte' and 'hard drive' in the same sentence.


----------



## windyweekend (Apr 22, 2021)

Christopher Rocky said:


> Twice the price? ? Seriously? That's horrible if it's true. I agree 180 at 40% for each, just for extra mics seems a bit much. I'd really like to hear some in depth comparisions before jumping in


The extra mics on SSB (and the others as well) were $99 at the time. They definitely make the difference, esp the JJ stereo mixes (and that horn with the gallery mics). At that price they're worth it and valued correctly (they are just mics after all). At this new pricing it's a bit different though if you ask me.


----------



## Akarin (Apr 22, 2021)

jamessy said:


> Is this with the pro version? I'd be very interested to hear a comparison of a regular mic mix and a pro mic mix



Nope, that's the original version. Only 0db Tree and -6dB Ambient  Looking forward to try the same with the outriggers and the JJ mixes.


----------



## PhilipJohnston (Apr 22, 2021)

Project Anvil said:


> Sorry if this has already been answered, but does anyone know if the SSW Solo Clarinet Legato is now finally fixed? That thing has had wonky legato transitions and been out of tune since I got the original BML version.


+1 to this. Can anybody confirm whether the woodwinds have been reworked for this Pro release?


----------



## prodigalson (Apr 22, 2021)

It might be worth noting that the additional mics are essentially a 2nd library. In addition to the outriggers you get 2 new close mics (leader + Ribbon), a stereo mic and an ambient mic (gallery). You can get a full balanced mix that sounds totally different to the CTAO mix.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

PhilipJohnston said:


> +1 to this. Can anybody confirm whether the woodwinds have been reworked for this Pro release?


I wouldn’t say reworked. There’s some improvement but I doubt the last round of updates will fundamentally change anyone’s feelings about these libraries. I like them. But I liked them before the updates. (Though I did not especially like the solo clarinet and I continue not to especially like the solo clarinet.)


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 22, 2021)

Christopher Rocky said:


> Website says you need 1.5tb free to install SSO from scratch on a drive 🥴


You actually only need ~1 TB as long as you install them one by one. Once you have strings and brass installed (~490 GB), you need twice the size of woodwinds available (2 x ~240 GB = ~480 GB).


----------



## andyhy (Apr 22, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> You actually only need ~1 TB as long as you install them one by one. Once you have strings and brass installed (~490 GB), you need twice the size of woodwinds available (2 x ~240 GB = ~480 GB).


Do they all need to be installed on the same drive or can they be separated?


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)

andyhy said:


> Do they all need to be installed on the same drive or can they be separated?


Yes. They can be separated.


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

windyweekend said:


> I'm definitely not going to buy something I've already got, but I don't have the extra mics for SSS and SSW. These are priced twice what they were two years ago, which seems crazy to me, and this is a discount (?). Wished I'd bought them two years ago now, but figured I'd wait for the new repackaged product that was coming. Now the extra mics are twice the price, which has made me put my wallet away.


Well that sale was a flash sale for $99. Original price for extra mics is the same ass SCS to Pro, $300, so 40% is $180


----------



## constaneum (Apr 22, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> I'm so exhausted of these new big announcements and releases, for realz, give us a break... I can't cope with so many awesome things happening at once


oh dear. you've gone insane.


----------



## andyhy (Apr 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Yes. They can be separated.


Thanks for that confirmation


----------



## Luka (Apr 22, 2021)

I own everything in Symphony complete, yet the price for the pro version is higher in the complete bundle compared to the SSO bundle. Anyone understands why?


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

Do you have everything from the complete professional (except the pro mics ofc), scraped percussion, steel drums etc.
Also, Spitfire bundles are sometimes weird, I often mix and match bundles to find the cheapest price


----------



## Luka (Apr 22, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> Do you have everything from the complete professional (except the pro mics ofc), scraped percussion, steel drums etc.
> Also, Spitfire bundles are sometimes weird, I often mix and match bundles to find the cheapest price


Yes I do. That’s why I’m asking… logically they should both give me the same price. I guess I’ll go with the cheaper one of course haha


----------



## constaneum (Apr 22, 2021)

i ended up only get the pro edition for SSS. no need to get Berlin Symphonic Strings anymore. yay ! SSS is the most usable libraries to me. followed by SSW and SSB. SSB even though they've fixed some but the A6 are still not that good sounding and A2 aren't that powerful enough for the hollywood sounds. Ended up have to replace it with either JXL or CSB which i'm currently using.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 22, 2021)

constaneum said:


> i ended up only get the pro edition for SSS. no need to get Berlin Symphonic Strings anymore. yay ! SSS is the most usable libraries to me. followed by SSW and SSB. SSB even though they've fixed some but the A6 are still not that good sounding and A2 aren't that powerful enough for the hollywood sounds. Ended up have to replace it with either JXL or CSB which i'm currently using.


How do you like the pro mics for SSS? That's the only library I have so far from SSO (also have Chamber Strings), but considering upgrading to the normal SSO (non-pro). Worked well enough for The Queen's Gambit in terms of the Hollywood sound (composer used SSO for everything during the pre-recording phase).


----------



## constaneum (Apr 22, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> How do you like the pro mics for SSS? That's the only library I have so far from SSO (also have Chamber Strings), but considering upgrading to the normal SSO (non-pro). Worked well enough for The Queen's Gambit in terms of the Hollywood sound (composer used SSO for everything during the pre-recording phase).


i just bought it few mins ago. i gonna start downloading. gonna take me days to download that 140+ GB materials. i need to clear off some spaces. I think i'll delete MASSE which i found it quite useless. For SSS core, i normally prefer using Close + Tree (-6db) which is good enough but still didn't manage to get that wide sound which i like from the Outriggers mic. but i wonder what's the point of Outriggers for woodwinds ? does it help when woods are more towards the centre ? hm...


----------



## CT (Apr 22, 2021)

constaneum said:


> but i wonder what's the point of Outriggers for woodwinds ?


Outriggers do the most for the back violin/cello desks and the brass, but while woodwinds might not have as obvious a benefit, you'd still want them if you care about creating the impression that everything is getting captured by the same ensemble mic combination.


----------



## edhamilton (Apr 22, 2021)

Have Spitfire made any announcements about the next iteration of this library in their own player?

This feels like a cash infusion for them, only to have us pay again for a cross grade to the new player in a year.

thoughts?


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 22, 2021)

edhamilton said:


> Have Spitfire made any announcements about the next iteration of this library in their own player?
> 
> This feels like a cash infusion for them, only to have us pay again for a cross grade to the new player in a year.
> 
> thoughts?


I don't think we will have to pay if they port it, they have ported several libraries to their player (evo grids), and I don't think users of those had to pay


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 22, 2021)

edhamilton said:


> Have Spitfire made any announcements about the next iteration of this library in their own player?
> 
> This feels like a cash infusion for them, only to have us pay again for a cross grade to the new player in a year.
> 
> thoughts?


Christian left a comment today that they don't plan to port this one, for now.


----------



## Henu (Apr 22, 2021)

I'm now going my third download round on the SSS extra mics. 

First one gave me the most of the data but only 10% of the patches (which were corrupted) and now the second one got me the rest of the patches but now with batch resaving Kontakt gives me missing "SymphonicStrings_Mix017.nkx" and some other .nkx files which are seemingly 0kb sized. 
It seems that it never downloaded all those samples after all. Anyone else having problems with not getting everything downloaded at once?


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 22, 2021)

edhamilton said:


> Have Spitfire made any announcements about the next iteration of this library in their own player?
> 
> This feels like a cash infusion for them, only to have us pay again for a cross grade to the new player in a year.
> 
> thoughts?


I think SF decided that the port, if it’s going to happen, is now years off, likely after the new AR modular library is completed. This doesn’t feel to me like a cash infusion or closing the book on SSO, but simply a recognition that the port is not currently in their business interests. That might be because it proved more complicated than they figured, or it might be because the opportunity of the AR modular library presented itself and that is requiring more work than they have people to do it so they don’t have the personnel. It might be that they realized in the first efforts to port that they couldn’t make SSS into the library they wanted and so that promoted the thinking about the AR library. It could be a combination of these things, or it could be something else entirely. I do suspect they have had many, many requests to make the additional mics and mixes available, and it might be they just decided it would be good business sense to release them again given that demand.


----------



## José Herring (Apr 22, 2021)

Luka said:


> I own everything in Symphony complete, yet the price for the pro version is higher in the complete bundle compared to the SSO bundle. Anyone understands why?


I think they call it a sale.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 22, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Christian left a comment today that they don't plan to port this one, for now.


They are probably focused on the AR1 Modular Orchestra. I hope they get one, or two modules of it out this year.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> They are probably focused on the AR1 Modular Orchestra. I hope they get one, or two modules of it out this year.


They also have 7 more AR Selections to release.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 23, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> They also have 7 more AR Selections to release.


Yes. They do. I'm guessing they will be releasing two more pretty soon.


----------



## Frederick (Apr 23, 2021)

For me it's been like Christmas this week: I've been waiting for the SSO Pro re-release for a year. I've been waiting for HOOPUS for almost a year and 9 months for the 8Dio Century Woodwind Ostinato libraries... And that only two weeks after the surprise release of VSL Synchron Elite Strings. 

Finally I'll be able to match SSO with the mix options already there in SCS Pro. Afterall, the hall in Air is my favourite room. It was a shame to only have a few mics, while having the knowledge how SCS with outriggers sounds and that the rest of the expansions was shelved somewhere and out of reach.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 23, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I think SF decided that the port, if it’s going to happen, is now years off, likely after the new AR modular library is completed. This doesn’t feel to me like a cash infusion or closing the book on SSO, but simply a recognition that the port is not currently in their business interests. That might be because it proved more complicated than they figured, or it might be because the opportunity of the AR modular library presented itself and that is requiring more work than they have people to do it so they don’t have the personnel. It might be that they realized in the first efforts to port that they couldn’t make SSS into the library they wanted and so that promoted the thinking about the AR library. It could be a combination of these things, or it could be something else entirely. I do suspect they have had many, many requests to make the additional mics and mixes available, and it might be they just decided it would be good business sense to release them again given that demand.


Well put.
Such a port - as you say - wouldn't be in the business interest if it was only going to be a straight conversion and nothing else. It would be difficult to charge existing Kontakt users for an "upgrade" and I'm betting the majority of Spitfire's customer base is buying Originals, BBCSO etc, not venturing into four figure pro mic territory - as desirable as they are.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 23, 2021)

Luka said:


> I own everything in Symphony complete, yet the price for the pro version is higher in the complete bundle compared to the SSO bundle. Anyone understands why?


If you add one of the bundles to your cart, you'll see the breakdown in costs per each library. Then do the other one and compare. You might be missing one of the libraries included in the Symphonic Percussion Professional bundle, which the SSO Professional Complete bundle includes, and the 'standard' SSO Complete bundle does not.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 23, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Well put.
> Such a port - as you say - wouldn't be in the business interest if it was only going to be a straight conversion and nothing else. It would be difficult to charge existing Kontakt users for an "upgrade" and I'm betting the majority of Spitfire's customer base is buying Originals, BBCSO etc, not venturing into four figure pro mic territory - as desirable as they are.


In all previous instances of a Kontakt library being ported to the Spitfire player, it was a free update for owners of the Kontakt version. New purchasers would only get the Spitfire plugin version, but owners of the Kontakt version would actually have both versions in their account.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 23, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> In all previous instances of a Kontakt library being ported to the Spitfire player, it was a free update for owners of the Kontakt version. New purchasers would only get the Spitfire plugin version, but owners of the Kontakt version would actually have both versions in their account.


Exactly, so very little ROI on the dev costs and I'd imagine the expectation of a free download would still be there, understandably.

All hypothetical now of course.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 23, 2021)

Henu said:


> I'm now going my third download round on the SSS extra mics.
> 
> First one gave me the most of the data but only 10% of the patches (which were corrupted) and now the second one got me the rest of the patches but now with batch resaving Kontakt gives me missing "SymphonicStrings_Mix017.nkx" and some other .nkx files which are seemingly 0kb sized.
> It seems that it never downloaded all those samples after all. Anyone else having problems with not getting everything downloaded at once?


If there's only a few sample files missing, you can contact support and they'll send those over to you. About 20 sample files from my copy of EWC somehow got corrupted when moving it to a new drive, and support collected and sent me them, so I didn't have to redownload the entire library.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 23, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Exactly, so very little ROI on the dev costs and I'd imagine the expectation of a free download would still be there, understandably.
> 
> All hypothetical now of course.


ROI on the dev costs would be from new users. They no longer would need to pay for the many Kontakt Player licenses, especially in the Pro bundles.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 23, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> ROI on the dev costs would be from new users. They no longer would need to pay for the many Kontakt Player licenses, especially in the Pro bundles.


Quite possibly. Presumably enough number crunching went on behind the scenes to reach the eventual Kontakt conclusion. Or "Konklusion"
(I'll let myself out.)


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 23, 2021)

Luka said:


> I own everything in Symphony complete, yet the price for the pro version is higher in the complete bundle compared to the SSO bundle. Anyone understands why?


OK I figured it out. The 'Spitfire Symphony Orchestra Professional' bundle is 50% off the full price of the individual libraries, but the 'Symphony Complete Professional' bundle is only 48% off. That is where the difference in cost is coming from.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 23, 2021)

Now we know what price point SSO Pro is settled at - where does the VIC collective think Abbey Road modular is going to pitched? Higher still?


----------



## yiph2 (Apr 23, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Now we know what price point SSO Pro is settled at - where does the VIC collective think Abbey Road modular is going to pitched? Higher still?


Probably, Abbey Road will have more mics, and more detail, so I still expect it to be 1.5-2k


----------



## redlester (Apr 23, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Now we know what price point SSO Pro is settled at - where does the VIC collective think Abbey Road modular is going to pitched? Higher still?


"Abbey Road Modular" sounds like a name for a library made from Christian's Eurorack system transported from Auld Reekie* to The Smoke* and put through the desks and outboard equipment at Abbey Road.

(* for non-UK readers, Edinburgh to London).


----------



## Henu (Apr 23, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> If there's only a few sample files missing, you can contact support and they'll send those over to you. About 20 sample files from my copy of EWC somehow got corrupted when moving it to a new drive, and support collected and sent me them, so I didn't have to redownload the entire library.


Yeah, seems like on the second full (....) download, I managed to get SOME of them now but still about 10 files are missing. Need to contact support then, thanks for the tip!

EDIT:
This is just incredible. No matter how busy the peeps at Spitfire customer service must be especially now when they just launched that new product, I got a real person joining the chat under one minute and the whole issue was confirmed in a couple of minutes and I'm getting manual links for the missing files via email today. 10/10 service, as usual! <3


----------



## Chungus (Apr 23, 2021)

How would loading these additional mics go? Near as I can tell, every standard patch would need to have a pro equivalent loaded. Am I getting that right?


----------



## Luka (Apr 23, 2021)

Chungus said:


> How would loading these additional mics go? Near as I can tell, every standard patch would need to have a pro equivalent loaded. Am I getting that right?


Unfortunately I think so.


----------



## FKVStudio (Apr 23, 2021)

It sounds spectacular, but I was looking for an "all in one" to start with and I have to discard the symphonic series. Very expensive for my pocket


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 23, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Now we know what price point SSO Pro is settled at - where does the VIC collective think Abbey Road modular is going to pitched? Higher still?


At least $2500, likely more than $3000, possibly quite a lot higher still. The price on AR modular doesn’t have to be especially reasonable, since they have three other orchestras that are reasonably priced (more if you include the ensemble libraries). And as I see it, its primary job for SF is not to sell lots of copies but rather to establish AR modular as the premier sampled orchestra to burnish the brand. So within reason choices for AR modular will be made for quality and comprehensiveness rather than economizing.


----------



## Mike Fox (Apr 23, 2021)

Monkberry said:


> So I pulled up the same articulation that Paul is playing Celli / Pizz w CTAO mics and it sounds nothing like what is happening in the video. Somehow it sounds like he has Bass Pizz layered with that but not on my end. I do notice a boominess (made up word) on the F above the low C on the Celli patches but nothing like the video.


I always knew he had some extra wizardry going on in his walkthrus lol!


----------



## Mike Fox (Apr 23, 2021)

Has anything been added to SSS to address the sluggish attacks of the sustains? Last time I opened it up I felt like I was stuck in quicksand.


----------



## Chungus (Apr 23, 2021)

Luka said:


> Unfortunately I think so.


Welp. That's a mighty inconvenient way of doing things. Going to be saving my money for now. I'm not looking to add and balance loads of new patches in any projects. lol


----------



## mdjohnson (Apr 23, 2021)

I'd love to get the extra mics, but as a hobbyist having just gotten SSO Complete at Christmas I can't justify the expense, even on sale. If they offered just the mixes for $90, I be very tempted though.

Is it possible to somewhat mimic the Outrigger sound by adjusting stereo width on the Core mics and/or using a stereo widening DAW plugin plus other reverb?


----------



## RogiervG (Apr 23, 2021)

I don't think AR Modular orchestra will be very expensive, since that would mean going against the market penetration/share position they now have. It's more or less accessible for many musicians. so going over 3K would not work anymore (bundle price) for a PRO version, with even more mics and maybe more dynamic layers etc. 3K is max.
But for the normal version i guess it will be under 2K in total (just like SSO bundle).

Anyway.. back on topic... SSO Pro...


"1510.94 GB DISK SPACE REQUIRED DURING INSTALL"

how does this translate?
because i have 800GB free on my ssd at current and have some extra space on a hdd (which can be used temporarily), if it is possible, i could let the setup per SSO "module" download on drive x and install on drive y.. or doesn't that work and i need to buy a bigger ssd?


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 23, 2021)

Okay, got the refund and bought the right one this time. Now to figure out the download. The good thing about this being Kontakt is I can download to a spinning drive and copy to the SSD and Kontakt won't care. Moving the orchestra with the Spitfire player isn't as easy. Plus I will have a backup. 

Now to find a drive with that much room....


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 23, 2021)

Luka said:


> Unfortunately I think so.


They do provide CTAO patches, so if you just want to add the outriggers to the main mics you can do that all in one patch. For the other mics, the mics are only loaded into Kontakt when you turn the mic on, so it's all manageable.


----------



## turnerofwheels (Apr 23, 2021)

Maybe kind of an oddball question but if you already have a template built with the regular version of SSO and tons of files dating back, can you load the CTA samples from the pro edition? So you wouldn't need both installed


----------



## Luka (Apr 23, 2021)

SHANE TURNER said:


> Maybe kind of an oddball question but if you already have a template built with the regular version of SSO and tons of files dating back, can you load the CTA samples from the pro edition? So you wouldn't need both installed


I guess so, since they still have the regular CTA patches. (The O comes in separate CTAO patch if I'm not mistaken)


----------



## bvaughn0402 (Apr 23, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> I always knew he had some extra wizardry going on in his walkthrus lol!


This sounds like the combined patch he demonstrated on the live event video. He combined the bass on one instance, and then even added a bass clarinet below that. This sound does sound like the one he created on that other video.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 23, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> I don't think AR Modular orchestra will be very expensive, since that would mean going against the market penetration/share position they now have. It's more or less accessible for many musicians. so going over 3K would not work anymore (bundle price) for a PRO version, with even more mics and maybe more dynamic layers etc. 3K is max.
> But for the normal version i guess it will be under 2K in total (just like SSO bundle).


The regular unbundled price of the three SSO Pro libraries is already at $3000. There is no way AR modular will be less than that. If I had to guess, I would say once the full AR set is available in bundled form we might have a one mix core version for roughly the same price as SSO Pro (just as SSO Core is roughly the same price as BBCSO Pro), and then the full version of the AR set with all the mics for $1000 or so more than that. AR will likely have modules available for purchase at less than the size of the section (Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussion) so that will make owning some of the instruments more affordable.


----------



## lettucehat (Apr 23, 2021)

Dumb question, but are the SSO Pro libraries different Kontakt libraries than the normal ones? Or is it just more content you add to the existing folders?


----------



## Luka (Apr 23, 2021)

lettucehat said:


> Dumb question, but are the SSO Pro libraries different Kontakt libraries than the normal ones? Or is it just more content you add to the existing folders?


More content to the existing folders.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 23, 2021)

Luka said:


> More content to the existing folders.



Did Sandy in fact do this correctly? Note the folder path: 






I think following it this way you end up installing the new content in a Spitfire Symphonic Strings folder inside your Spitfire Symphonic Strings folder.

This is actually a confusion I've long had with the SF installer and Kontakt libraries: it's not always clear which level you are supposed to install, and if we are indeed supposed to make nested folders, it's poor computer hygiene to have two layers of folders with the identical name like that. I have an open support request on this to resolve the issue.


----------



## Luka (Apr 23, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Did Sandy in fact do this correctly? Note the folder path:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm curious to know the answer when you'll get it. I've always wondered too haha


----------



## NoamL (Apr 23, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Now we know what price point SSO Pro is settled at - where does the VIC collective think Abbey Road modular is going to pitched? Higher still?


A great deal higher. Like "VIC complaining about how unaffordable it is" higher.

Part of the high price will just be that these instruments are insanely detailed (AROOF has 5 dynamic layers iirc on most patches, and 12 mixable signals).

Part of it will be a way of getting "soft exclusivity." You won't be worried about every composer copying your sound when it costs $5k+ to get the complete modular orchestra.

Part of it is the premium brand thing that @jbuhler said!

And the last part is that this is really the first "flagship full orchestra with deep sampling, on a real A list scoring stage" that has come out since the original CineSamples/BML lines. It's *genuinely* "next gen" and they don't have to compete with the last generation options including their own SSO.

"AROOF plus a few Scoring Selects you like" will still remain a pretty affordable option for getting into the AR ecosystem. Every month I'm using AROOF in more cues than the previous month. It's a stellar library (just a few volume issues between some patches) has a LOT of very nicely performed samples and is FAST to write with.


----------



## Van (Apr 23, 2021)

MA-Simon said:


> The frustrating thing is that I already had most of the BML series. But decided to upgrade to the Symhonic series for ease of use and bugfixes. Which made me essentially loose all those mic positions, including the outrigger, which was part of the base patches back then. Now if I want them back, I would have to get most of the Pro upgrades. That comes to arround 300-400€. I just want these outriggers back.


I’m pretty sure they were included and ‘should’ be a free download. This was from customer service back in 2018 when they offered the expansion packs (which I grabbed) and I asked about it:

"_These expansions are content from the BML libraries. They are additional microphones and extended articulations_." 

Ultimately it looks like they fixed bugs and sold mics to those who don’t have them with the _Professional_ update (much appreciated btw). Have you tried adding them to your cart? I wonder if they’re automatically there for you for free. If not I’d hit up customer support for sure.


----------



## Luka (Apr 23, 2021)

Just listened to the Demos on this page: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-symphony-orchestra-professional/

And Andy Blaney's pieces are so great! Wouldn't it be lovely if they gave us the midi (or specific DAW) files of the demos. 😮


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 23, 2021)

NoamL said:


> A great deal higher. Like "VIC complaining about how unaffordable it is" higher.
> 
> Part of the high price will just be that these instruments are insanely detailed (AROOF has 5 dynamic layers iirc on most patches, and 12 mixable signals).
> 
> ...


I'm guessing the AR1 Modular Orchestra will be a real Game Changer  

Playing some of the AROOF sounds, I can just imagine how much better, and more detailed AR1 Modular Orch. is going to be. 

Insanely Awesome is what i'm expecting.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 23, 2021)

I think I'll hold off on completing SSO and just wait for AR1 full orchestra.


----------



## Larry Dickstein (Apr 23, 2021)

The main thing that would motivate me to upgrade my SSO to Pro is to gain substantially more presence and clarity in the sections' sound for a marked level-up in sonic projection and 'bite'. Can anyone who has upgraded attest to Pro being able to better achieve this kind of sound now with its new mic selections? I imagine, if so, it would be from one its newly offered close mics?


----------



## clonewar (Apr 23, 2021)

I know that I’m being the guy that doesn’t want to read through almost 500 posts to answer a question that’s probably already been answered.....But, if I already have the additional mics and mixes for SSO and SCS is there anything new here?


----------



## Michael Antrum (Apr 23, 2021)

clonewar said:


> I know that I’m being the guy that doesn’t want to read through almost 500 posts to answer a question that’s probably already been answered.....But, if I already have the additional mics and mixes for SSO and SCS is there anything new here?


The name and the icon....

At first I was a little cheesed off when I saw the reboot was nothing more than a rebrand and a maintenance fix. So much for the long heralded reboot that has taken several years to put in an appearance.

However, having thought about it, I'm changing my mind a little.

Upon reflection I'm pleased it's still on Kontakt, as although I love the BBCSO, the player is, shall we say, not my personal favourite. I'm a fan of the Jake Jackson mix, so I'm glad they've left that alone, and they fixed some issues. I can still use UACC, which is great too. Templates don't need rebuilding.

In fact, I wonder why I though I wanted a full reboot of SSO.

But I think that this will be it for the SSO, except for future fixes/patches etc. AR is where their efforts will now be concentrated, and I can see why.

There still lots of music to be made with SSO....


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 23, 2021)

NoamL said:


> A great deal higher. Like "VIC complaining about how unaffordable it is" higher.
> 
> Part of the high price will just be that these instruments are insanely detailed (AROOF has 5 dynamic layers iirc on most patches, and 12 mixable signals).
> 
> ...


On the bright side if it’s $5000 separately and, say, $4000 bundled, think of how much you save buying on sales! Buy AR modular, get BBCSO Pro for free! The higher the price the more you save during sales! GAS!

Seriously I see no way that even a cut down core version sells for less than SSO Pro; a more likely price point would be SSO Pro Complete, if they even offer a cut down version, which I'm not at all sure they will. When I look at the prices of the components of SSO Pro—$3000 without percussion, harp, or piano—$4000 for the individual bits of AR modular at regular price seems like as low as it can possibly be. $5000 seems more probable and possibly even much higher, depending on how many instruments are included. If SF follows their usual practice, the bundled price will then be roughly 20% lower than the parts separately.

This might be a bit easier to take during the initial offers, buying a module at a time with release pricing. But the total for the whole thing is going to be high, the only question is how high.

I would also say the point of this library for SF isn’t to sell lots of copies of it. Of course SF would be happy to do so, but the company also has plenty of other libraries to do that. The point is to make a best of class library to burnish the brand. In that respect VI-C is not the market for this library except secondarily in how it situates the brand.


----------



## Evans (Apr 23, 2021)

Dang, Spitfire Audio has good demos. 

I know people have issue with some shorts here and there, the clarinet, and how hard it is to dial "away" from the recording space a bit if you want to, but dang they're good.

Sometimes, it makes me regret going the Berlin route. But then I listen to Special Bows and MODUS and am happy I don't have to blend those with AIR.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 23, 2021)

Larry Dickstein said:


> The main thing that would motivate me to upgrade my SSO to Pro is to gain substantially more presence and clarity in the sections' sound for a marked level-up in sonic projection and 'bite'. Can anyone who has upgraded attest to Pro being able to better achieve this kind of sound now with its new mic selections? I imagine, if so, it would be from one its newly offered close mics?


Hi @Larry Dickstein ,

Here is short test I made using the following mics : JJ Medium Mic. (Stereo), ALT Mics (Cr, St, L) Using the Celli Spicc. Articulation, so you can hear the bite, and presence, yet full, and warm sound these mics offer.

I hope this will help you better evaluate SSS, and answer your questions.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


View attachment SSS Celli Test.mp3


Here is a pic of the setup, and the audio demo.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 23, 2021)

Evans said:


> Sometimes, it makes me regret going the Berlin route. But then I listen to Special Bows and MODUS and am happy I don't have to blend those with AIR.


I’ve been doing some mixing and matching with these libraries and SSO, and honestly I don’t have huge issues. Same with BSS and AROOF. The result usually ends up inflected toward Air, but they get along.


----------



## easyrider (Apr 23, 2021)

Extra Mics £409

EW OPUS Diamond £572


----------



## AllanH (Apr 23, 2021)

This "refresh" of the Symphonic Strings inspired me to go back and load my old Mural. I had forgotten how good Mural sounds. I'm not sure I see a need to "buy it again" as SSS Pro, but it really does sound fantastic.


----------



## bvaughn0402 (Apr 23, 2021)

I debate getting this with more AR coming in the future. If I spend this then the same amount in the future then it doesn’t feel good.

I do like AR but it does seem less “pro” than SSO. Meaning SSO launched as massive professional where as AR launched less options (but good sound).


----------



## Christopher Rocky (Apr 23, 2021)

I'm really hoping to hear some direct comparisons with the cta mics and then the same parts but with alt mics only (or jj mix) , and not just with strings. There doesn't seem to be much out there which is frustrating considering the pricing/investment. 

I heard a direct comparison of studio strings and then to pro, There was such a big difference in having only a tree to adding more mics it was a convincing upgrade. But with sss I'm not being convinced yet. What will add apart from added wideness? Leader? Are the Alt mics that different? 

I'm not saying this is not worth it. In fact I hope it makes a huge difference and adds a lot to the product as I use it as my main symphony. Call me crazy but I like to have all the information and examples before putting hundreds down. Really surprised there isn't much out there. Why wouldn't spitfire do one of their demo tracks to showcase how the different mics make all the difference?


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 23, 2021)

Hi Luka, you must've missed my post. I paid $6 more than I needed, because I thought I didn't have Scraped Percussion as it shows up on my hard drive as something else (see above) and so I didn't find it under "S". I'm going to guess the extra amount has to do with per-library rounding on the discounts.

It's only a tiny amount so what's done is done. Looks like the pre-discount differential between the upgrade and the complete orchestra package is small as well, but slightly larger than $6.


----------



## jamessy (Apr 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Larry Dickstein ,
> 
> Here is short test I made using the following mics : JJ Medium Mic. (Stereo), ALT Mics (Cr, St, L) Using the Celli Spicc. Articulation, so you can hear the bite, and presence, yet full, and warm sound these mics offer.
> 
> ...


Would you be willing to upload that clip using the standard mics?


----------



## Larry Dickstein (Apr 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Larry Dickstein ,
> 
> Here is short test I made using the following mics : JJ Medium Mic. (Stereo), ALT Mics (Cr, St, L) Using the Celli Spicc. Articulation, so you can hear the bite, and presence, yet full, and warm sound these mics offer.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for sharing this, @muziksculp ! That sounds excellent and definitely with a more present and detailed sound than the previous mics. Writing lyrical melodies in octaves for the violins to stand out above the orchestra is another critical area I've wanted this library to be able to project better but always felt the mics didn't provide enough direct sound to cut through the ambience of the room. Do you feel the new Pro mics provide notably better presence for these types of sustained melodies with the performance legato violins and violas? Would love to hear any tests you might've done with those instruments and patches, as well. Thanks again.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Apr 23, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Okay, got the refund and bought the right one this time. Now to figure out the download. The good thing about this being Kontakt is I can download to a spinning drive and copy to the SSD and Kontakt won't care. Moving the orchestra with the Spitfire player isn't as easy. Plus I will have a backup.
> 
> Now to find a drive with that much room....


Yea, I checked that. Kontakt won’t bother as long it shows up in the side library window. But it might prompt you to enter the password, to save the change, since there’s new content in it? Like when I got the Drum Mic’A, it came with the Player & when bought the Kontakt, it added the content that came with the additional NI libraries & it prompted me to enter the password to confirm the change.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 23, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Yea, I checked that. Kontakt won’t bother as long it shows up in the side library window. But it might prompt you to enter the password, to save the change, since there’s new content in it? Like when I got the Drum Mic’A, it came with the Player & when bought the Kontakt, it added the content that came with the additional NI libraries & it prompted me to enter the password to confirm the change.


I will add it in to Native Access like every other player library. Very easy to do. Tell Native Access where it is and it should be done.


----------



## Frederick (Apr 23, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I will add it in to Native Access like every other player library. Very easy to do. Tell Native Access where it is and it should be done.


I'm not sure I follow this as the expansions didn't come with a serial number for me. The expansions are visible in Kontakt like they are part of the core library. I think my download e-mails said I need the full version of Kontakt for it to work.


----------



## redlester (Apr 23, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> The regular unbundled price of the three SSO Pro libraries is already at $3000. There is no way AR modular will be less than that. If I had to guess, I would say once the full AR set is available in bundled form we might have a one mix core version for roughly the same price as SSO Pro (just as SSO Core is roughly the same price as BBCSO Pro), and then the full version of the AR set with all the mics for $1000 or so more than that. AR will likely have modules available for purchase at less than the size of the section (Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussion) so that will make owning some of the instruments more affordable.


If it's possible to build up the complete AR Modular, whatever that eventually comprises, by buying individual elements over a period of time rather than a whole section in one hit (i.e. "modular") then even if the full price is a huge amount it makes it much more affordable for the non-pro's who might be tempted but can't afford/justify the expense of buying it in one hit.

The way they have concentrated recently on the Originals series, and other more affordable releases, seems like a recognition that their customer base now includes very many hobbyists etc., (extremely different from when the Symphony series and its predecessors first came out) perhaps means this might be the way. Unless that was simply because of Covid and next year they are going to hit us with loads of >£300 products!

Now, how's that Brass expansion download progressing... 

Edit: After further thinking I'm probably being optimistic with the above. I can imagine Abbey Road will comprise more than one "orchestra" for example. A full symphony orchestra, a chamber orchestra, a string quartet (no sign of Sacconi Quartet being updated to the Spitfire player?) etc.. I guess being realistic 'modular' may more likely be in these terms.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 24, 2021)

Larry Dickstein said:


> Thanks very much for sharing this, @muziksculp ! That sounds excellent and definitely with a more present and detailed sound than the previous mics. Writing lyrical melodies in octaves for the violins to stand out above the orchestra is another critical area I've wanted this library to be able to project better but always felt the mics didn't provide enough direct sound to cut through the ambience of the room. Do you feel the new Pro mics provide notably better presence for these types of sustained melodies with the performance legato violins and violas? Would love to hear any tests you might've done with those instruments and patches, as well. Thanks again.


Hi @Larry Dickstein ,

You are very Welcome.

I will post some more test demos using the violins, and violas Performance Legatos, with the same combination of Mics, and some variation of the mics tomorrow, so you can get a an idea if they deliver the type of presence you are seeking.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 24, 2021)

jamessy said:


> Would you be willing to upload that clip using the standard mics?


Sure I can, but I want to double check what you mean by 'Standard mics ?'

Do you mean the (CTA) Mics, or (CTAO) or ... ?


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 24, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Sure I can, but I want to double check what you mean by 'Standard mics ?'
> 
> Do you mean the (CTA) Mics, or (CTAO) or ... ?


He wants to compare SSS with SSS Pro, so he means CTA.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 24, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> He wants to compare SSS with SSS Pro, so he means CTA.


Ok. I just wanted to clarify. 

Thanks.


----------



## Christopher Rocky (Apr 24, 2021)

I wanted to do a little test with the example of @muziksculp shared so I did little CTA test myself.
obviously the velocities are not exact, etc.. hope this helps for now
@jamessy


----------



## Akarin (Apr 24, 2021)

constaneum said:


> but i wonder what's the point of Outriggers for woodwinds ?



Leaving space in the center for the dialogues.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 24, 2021)

Frederick said:


> I'm not sure I follow this as the expansions didn't come with a serial number for me. The expansions are visible in Kontakt like they are part of the core library. I think my download e-mails said I need the full version of Kontakt for it to work.


I wasn't sure. But when I think about it, you are right. I will have to change location though. the SSD with SSO is full.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 24, 2021)

I caved and completed my SSO. 🙈Sticking with the CTA mics though.


----------



## Evans (Apr 24, 2021)

Are there many user comparisons that directly compare the SSO CTA mics and the SSO Pro mics? I saw the recent video from Paul, which covers these to an extent, but I want more. 

At first listen, the JJ mixes were really nice. Then again, there are some _fantastic_ demos on the Spitfire site that use the old mics. But let's just say that I'm more equipped to write than I am to mix, so the best "out of the box" sound is important to me.


----------



## jamessy (Apr 24, 2021)

Christopher Rocky said:


> I wanted to do a little test with the example of @muziksculp shared so I did little CTA test myself.
> obviously the velocities are not exact, etc.. hope this helps for now
> @jamessy


Thank you! The comparison helps. Sorry @muziksculp I should have been more specific but yeah just trying to gauge whether I should grab the pro edition before it goes up in price.


----------



## constaneum (Apr 24, 2021)

Evans said:


> Are there many user comparisons that directly compare the SSO CTA mics and the SSO Pro mics? I saw the recent video from Paul, which covers these to an extent, but I want more.
> 
> At first listen, the JJ mixes were really nice. Then again, there are some _fantastic_ demos on the Spitfire site that use the old mics. But let's just say that I'm more equipped to write than I am to mix, so the best "out of the box" sound is important to me.


Since I only got the pro edition for SSS which im so happy with the add mics, I have to say I no longer use the Tree mic. I only use Outrigger with a bit of Close. Sounds so much better on the strings.


----------



## soothingpanic (Apr 24, 2021)

constaneum said:


> Since I only got the pro edition for SSS which im so happy with the add mics, I have to say I no longer use the Tree mic. I only use Outrigger with a bit of Close. Sounds so much better on the strings.


How do you install it? I ran the installer in the Spitfire app, and continued letting it install in the same folder as my existing SSS, but when finished I couldn’t find any of the additional mics…


----------



## constaneum (Apr 24, 2021)

soothingpanic said:


> How do you install it? I ran the installer in the Spitfire app, and continued letting it install in the same folder as my existing SSS, but when finished I couldn’t find any of the additional mics…


I let it install on a separate folder and then move the expansion mics to the original SSS folder. Just to stay safe so that nothing gets corrupted.


----------



## soothingpanic (Apr 24, 2021)

constaneum said:


> I let it install on a separate folder and then move the expansion mics to the original SSS folder. Just to stay safe so that nothing gets corrupted.


And that allowed new mics to appear in the UI?


----------



## Evans (Apr 24, 2021)

Is there a way to delete mics in SSO that you don't want in order to save storage space, as Spitfire has made easy with BBCSO and AROOF? It's so much effing storage space, when what interests me are some of the JJ mixes, Tree, and Close.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 24, 2021)

soothingpanic said:


> How do you install it? I ran the installer in the Spitfire app, and continued letting it install in the same folder as my existing SSS, but when finished I couldn’t find any of the additional mics…


You have to load the extra mics from Kontakt Library tab or by dragging the nki into Kontakt. They aren’t added to the GUI but part of a different patch. Are you seeing additional folders in your SSS folder?


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Apr 24, 2021)

Mics are a big deal - but this seems to have the same problem as before for me: it's on seperate patches - I'd rather them all be mixed only or all the mic signals imo.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 24, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Mics are a big deal - but this seems to have the same problem as before for me: it's on seperate patches - I'd rather them all be mixed only or all the mic signals imo.


CTAO are together on one patch, so if the interest is in the outrigger that is available.


----------



## constaneum (Apr 24, 2021)

soothingpanic said:


> And that allowed new mics to appear in the UI?





soothingpanic said:


> And that allowed new mics to appear in the UI?


Yes.


----------



## constaneum (Apr 24, 2021)

soothingpanic said:


> And that allowed new mics to appear in the UI?


Dont forget that apart from copying the new samples into the existing SSO samples folder, you need to copy the new Instruments' nki files into the existing SSao instruments folder too


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Apr 24, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> CTAO are together on one patch, so if the interest is in the outrigger that is available.


Which is nice, but having the full mixture would be nicer. 

The right mic selection can basically completely negate the need for EQ, reverb, or both in many cases. 

My issue with using two instances is that I have to be at the mercy of how the instrument is programmed to make sure there isn't going to be any phasing issues, or issues with round robins triggering differently. 

I completely understand why they might make the decision to split it up in kontakt, as the more zones The beefier the patch gets and slower to load - but the entire appeal of having the professional edition to have in the extra mics kind of implies that you want the full picture rather than an alternate set. 

I would have probably jumped on this, but I already own all the products and don't feel like paying that much more money for the extra mics. I've got some time, if anything I might grab the woodwinds only or something


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 24, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Which is nice, but having the full mixture would be nicer.
> 
> The right mic selection can basically completely negate the need for EQ, reverb, or both in many cases.
> 
> ...


Given the way things played out it seems like the mic issue was one of the main reasons SF decided they needed their own player. I'm still interested in the story of how SF ultimately decided not to port SSO—at least for now. I have theories about SSO ultimately proving too hard to bring up to the level they wanted (that story Christian tells of binning several large sampling sessions comes to mind—though he never even implied that had anything to do with SSO), so they abandoned porting and updating SSO when the opportunity for AR modular appeared, but it's all speculation from a very small set of facts, so who knows.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Apr 24, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Given the way things played out it seems like the mic issue was one of the main reasons SF decided they needed their own player. I'm still interested in the story of how SF ultimately decided not to port SSO—at least for now. I have theories about SSO ultimately proving too hard to bring up to the level they wanted (that story Christian tells of binning several large sampling sessions comes to mind—though he never even implied that had anything to do with SSO), so they abandoned porting and updating SSO when the opportunity for AR modular appeared, but it's all speculation from a very small set of facts, so who knows.


It wouldnt suprise me - the first and immediate thing that stuck out to me when JXL came out was that I just loaded something with like 16 mics that populated instantly. Compare that with BWW legacy patches vs Revive versions(using the same samples essentially, but with more mic positions) and it's very different. 


Both developers know how much microphones make a difference(although many users seem to ignore this and go straight for the tree hahaha). that said, ironically - my performance with spitfire's player has been far less than kontakt, specifically it's ability to load and play samples fast enough... I think I'm the minority in this, but I was instructed by one of their support to increase my buffer to unplayable levels, which makes me think it might just need work.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 24, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> It wouldnt suprise me - the first and immediate thing that stuck out to me when JXL came out was that I just loaded something with like 16 mics that populated instantly. Compare that with BWW legacy patches vs Revive versions(using the same samples essentially, but with more mic positions) and it's very different.
> 
> 
> Both developers know how much microphones make a difference(although many users seem to ignore this and go straight for the tree hahaha). that said, ironically - my performance with spitfire's player has been far less than kontakt, specifically it's ability to load and play samples fast enough... I think I'm the minority in this, but I was instructed by one of their support to increase my buffer to unplayable levels, which makes me think it might just need work.


Spitfire player has been about the same for me as Kontakt—I like that all the articulations can be present in SF Player and all the mics are there, but a lot of it doesn't fit well into my workflow. I don't use that many mics in either Kontakt or SF Player when writing, generally using the stereo mixes (when available) and shifting to the mics only at the end when I work on mixing. 

Sine though is appreciably better than Capsule, and I never made that much use of the advanced Capsule features that I feel that much is lacking. So I've converted everything to Sine and one of my tasks when I have some downtime this summer is to archive the Kontakt versions of my OT libraries.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Apr 24, 2021)

it's nice that each articulation in the SF player can have it's own mic mix... this was nice in the kontakt versions too.


----------



## redlester (Apr 25, 2021)

Finally finished downloading the pro updates which has taken since Friday night.

Frustratingly now don’t really have time to play with it, but at first quick listen just to the cellos I absolutely adore the Jake Jackson “fine” mix!


----------



## thereus (Apr 25, 2021)

I wonder if they recorded the additional mics/mixes for the solo strings too. Maybe solo strings pro will be next. The percussion library could really do with them, too.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Apr 25, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I will add it in to Native Access like every other player library. Very easy to do. Tell Native Access where it is and it should be done.


Exactly! That’s what I do, but I’ll the add it to the Native Access & then open Kontakt & add the library. This way it’s a little easy.


----------



## Cheezus (Apr 25, 2021)

thereus said:


> I wonder if they recorded the additional mics/mixes for the solo strings too. Maybe solo strings pro will be next. The percussion library could really do with them, too.


Christian Henson was in the live chat during the premier and he said no update is coming for the percussion. The same array of microphone recordings apparently don't exist for that library.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Apr 25, 2021)

I checked the Walkthru of SSO Pro by Paul. I don’t know it’s my ear or maybe it’s coz I’ve seen a lot of real concerts live, but the Longs & Legatos sounded synths, to me. Every other articulation sounded good, except for these & only for Strings & Brass. And when he combined the Leader Mics & the Stage Mics, I felt like Ok! So, this is it. I think these are the strengths of the library.


----------



## Mike Fox (Apr 25, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> I checked the Walkthru of SSO Pro by Paul. I don’t know it’s my ear or maybe it’s coz I’ve seen a lot of real concerts live, but the Longs & Legatos sounded synths, to me. Every other articulation sounded good, except for these & only for Strings & Brass. And when he combined the Leader Mics & the Stage Mics, I felt like Ok! So, this is it. I think these are the strengths of the library.


I think it sometimes can be difficult to not make symphonic strings sound synthy, mainly because of their larger player size. You start to lose detail that you normally get from smaller sections.


----------



## gives19 (Apr 25, 2021)

Is the existing owner update for SSO worth it? I have no idea if it's going to improve things that bother me. Also all of the Spitfire libraries have that sucking sound with all of their sustains in transitioning from one line to next. I wish they would fix that. I have a way to make it work, but it's kind of a slowdown. As far as the brass, I think as a brass player in Hollywood sessions for years and orchestras, I am not totally crazy about how bright some of the stuff is. The answer they gave me online the other day was to just EQ them? IMHO, I prefer a bit more edge when needed, but not all of the time and the attacks, (like the first ones), don't seem as accurate as several as them in a row. The first or initial attacks on trumpets I can tell are still a bit synth attack like to me. Anyway that is what is on my mind. I will pass on the brass for now. I have plenty.


----------



## andyhy (Apr 25, 2021)

I'm tempted but still can't make my mind up. Since the premier fanfare this forum has been unusually quiet on this one. Maybe everyone is still in the process of downloading and there's insufficient practical experience with the additional mics. BBCSO, SCS, AROOF, BB, BWW and the Cinematic Studio Series already meet my own needs so do I really need SSO? Probably not, but I do love that unique Air sound!


----------



## VSriHarsha (Apr 25, 2021)

Thanks @dzilizzi !


----------



## VSriHarsha (Apr 25, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> I think it sometimes can be difficult to not make symphonic strings sound synthy, mainly because of their larger player size. You start to lose detail that you normally get from smaller sections.


Perhaps that’s why SCS is their best?

Oh wait a minute! I didn’t feel like this, when listening to the BBCSO. Now why is that? I don’t get it. I think they wanted it to much more depth in every aspect, than any of their libraries.


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 25, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> I think it sometimes can be difficult to not make symphonic strings sound synthy, mainly because of their larger player size. You start to lose detail that you normally get from smaller sections.


Yes, I notice any time someone plays closed sustain chords with strings, it's starts getting synthy. It's fine if each section plays one note, but if you make ensembles, it's a mess. A real orchestra doesn't normally have that many strings playing at the same time. Plus, if there's any vibrato, it can get buzzy. 

I'm still waiting on the setup. I had to download to an HDD, then move it all to a new SSD with more room. Then I have to add it to my VEP template because the computer it is on doesn't have an audio interface. I'm really thinking of putting my old Scarlett on the slave, even if just to use headphones.


----------



## constaneum (Apr 25, 2021)

i wonder is SSB and SSW worth the upgrade. SSS a must for me ! Does the a6 patches sound better in SSB pro edition with the outrigger? hmmm


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 26, 2021)

constaneum said:


> i wonder is SSB and SSW worth the upgrade. SSS a must for me ! Does the a6 patches sound better in SSB pro edition with the outrigger? hmmm


I’ve never been able to get the a6 patches to sound good, no matter what combination of mics I’ve used or with the stereo mixes.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Apr 26, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> It wouldnt suprise me - the first and immediate thing that stuck out to me when JXL came out was that I just loaded something with like 16 mics that populated instantly. Compare that with BWW legacy patches vs Revive versions(using the same samples essentially, but with more mic positions) and it's very different.
> 
> 
> Both developers know how much microphones make a difference(although many users seem to ignore this and go straight for the tree hahaha). that said, ironically - my performance with spitfire's player has been far less than kontakt, specifically it's ability to load and play samples fast enough... I think I'm the minority in this, but I was instructed by one of their support to increase my buffer to unplayable levels, which makes me think it might just need work.


Spitfire really need to get their player multi timbral if they are serious about it. I can't imagine the hassle of doing and maintaining a full orchestra template with that player, ugh. And try comparing how long it takes to load 16 instances of the SF plugin compared to one instance of Kontakt... Just loading the actual plugin for so many instances adds a lot of excess loading time compared to Kontakt. And then managing/changing stuff in such a huge amount of plugins is just ridiculous. Well, at least that's how I see it. I much prefer SINE in that regard. Spitfire's software still seems a bit like it's in its infancy...


----------



## constaneum (Apr 26, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I’ve never been able to get the a6 patches to sound good, no matter what combination of mics I’ve used or with the stereo mixes.


you meant all the articulations or particularly the performance legato patches?


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 26, 2021)

constaneum said:


> you meant all the articulations or particularly the performance legato patches?


Yes, all of it. I‘m not sure why. But when I need the sound of big sections, I always turn elsewhere.


----------



## robgb (Apr 26, 2021)

Drundfunk said:


> I think the majority are simply beginners who can't see the value in purchasing Kontakt.


SSO runs on player.


----------



## Toecutter (Apr 26, 2021)

Simon Ravn said:


> Spitfire really need to get their player multi timbral if they are serious about it.


Yep from all new players, including Opus, the Spitfire one is my favorite overall, it's stable, slick and efficient... but damn they are missing two big features: multitimbral and purge. I know it's possible to unload articulations (not ideal, gotta say sigh) but not being able to load multiple instruments in one player and mix&match libraries and articulations is just inexcusable in 2021. @Spitfire Team @SpitfireSupport please make it happen


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Apr 26, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Yep from all new players, including Opus, the Spitfire one is my favorite overall, it's stable, slick and efficient... but damn they are missing two big features: multitimbral and purge. I know it's possible to unload articulations (not ideal, gotta say sigh) but not being able to load multiple instruments in one player and mix&match libraries and articulations is just inexcusable in 2021. @Spitfire Team @SpitfireSupport please make it happen


Spitfire Player: For me, it's problematic that there's one volume knob controlling all articulations within an instrument. I'd love to have independent control over the volumes of each articulation. (e.g. turn down just the pizz without affecting legato, spicc, etc.)

EDIT: I am wrong about this, correction is below. vvv


----------



## zolhof (Apr 26, 2021)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Spitfire Player: For me, it's problematic that there's one volume knob controlling all articulations within an instrument. I'd love to have independent control over the volumes of each articulation. (e.g. turn down just the pizz without affecting legato, spicc, etc.)


That's possible but kinda unintuitive coming from Kontakt. In the Mixer tab, disable Global to adjust the volume of individual articulations. You can have different microphones/mixes per articulation, it's very flexible once you get used to the Spitfire way if doing things.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 26, 2021)

I like the Spitfire player. All I really need a player to do is to "send out the notes" without any fuss, and it does that.

Without opening a can of worms, IMO conceptually the SF player appears to be designed around how you'd use a software instrument in Logic, where (apparently) multi-timbral workflows have long been seen as outdated by the Apple devs. It can't be a coincidence that the Spitfire composers appear to be Logic Heads.

I'd like purging though. The existing method of loading method of loading articulations is fine but causes issues with resetting key switches.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Apr 26, 2021)

zolhof said:


> That's possible but kinda unintuitive coming from Kontakt. In the Mixer tab, disable Global to adjust the volume of individual articulations. You can have different microphones/mixes per articulation, it's very flexible once you get used to the Spitfire way if doing things.


Thanks for the correction. 

Can you tell me if it's also possible to independently control volume via cc11 (expression) or cc7 for each artic as well? So not just setting a static volume mix, but sending expression/volume automation that could affect, say, pizz without also affecting legato, spicc, etc? That would make my day.


----------



## Toecutter (Apr 26, 2021)

zolhof said:


> That's possible but kinda unintuitive coming from Kontakt. In the Mixer tab, disable Global to adjust the volume of individual articulations. You can have different microphones/mixes per articulation, it's very flexible once you get used to the Spitfire way if doing things.


Was this always a thing?! I use the player since HZ strings came out and never noticed it. Testing AROOF, that's better than Kontakt... sucks to have to jump pages all the time (waste of GUI imo) but I'll take it for now


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Apr 26, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Was this always a thing?! I use the player since HZ strings came out and never noticed it. Testing AROOF, that's better than Kontakt... sucks to have to jump pages all the time (waste of GUI imo) but I'll take it for now


How are you liking AROOF? I'm mostly thinking about Spitfire Player because I want to get that.


----------



## Toecutter (Apr 26, 2021)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Can you tell me if it's also possible to independently control volume via cc11 (expression) or cc7 for each artic as well? So not just setting a static volume mix, but sending expression/volume automation that could affect, say, pizz without also affecting legato, spicc, etc? That would make my day.


Yep it's possible to automate volumes, each mic has a CC assigned (22, 23, 24.......) you just edit the points in the piano roll where you want them on or off. It's confusing but it works XD


----------



## Toecutter (Apr 26, 2021)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> How are you liking AROOF? I'm mostly thinking about Spitfire Player because I want to get that.


It sounds amazing! I usually avoid ensemble patches but AROOF sounds so good that I don't care. almost feels like cheating to have something this "ready" out of the box. And I think I read we get a crossgrade discount once the modular libraries are ready, win-win!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Apr 26, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Yep it's possible to automate volumes, each mic has a CC assigned (22, 23, 24.......) you just edit the points in the piano roll where you want them on or off. It's confusing but it works XD


Can you adjust volume (or mic positions) independently for each instrument via automation? For example, change the volume (or mic position mix) of pizz with CCs without affecting legato, spicc?


----------



## Toecutter (Apr 26, 2021)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Can you adjust volume (or mic positions) independently for each instrument via automation? For example, change the volume (or mic position mix) of pizz with CCs without affecting legato, spicc?


I'm testing this now, it's like a revelation XD You can but like I said it can get a bit confusing if you decide to use different microphones for different articulations. Example: legato Vintage 1 CC24 and Close CC28, pizz Mix 1 CC22 and Spill CC30, spicc Mix 1 CC22 and Pop Close CC26: every time you switch articulations you have to remember to edit the respective CC otherwise one microphone will remain enabled (or have different levels) for the next articulation. Does that make sense? lol


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Apr 26, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> I'm testing this now, it's like a revelation XD You can but like I said it can get a bit confusing if you decide to use different microphones for different articulations. Example: legato Vintage 1 CC24 and Close CC28, pizz Mix 1 CC22 and Spill CC30, spicc Mix 1 CC22 and Pop Close CC26: every time you switch articulations you have to remember to edit the respective CC otherwise one microphone will remain enabled (or have different levels) for the next articulation. Does that make sense? lol


Thanks for checking. I'll dig into the documentation and maybe contact Spitfire Support.

Sorry for all the off-topic discussion, folks.


----------



## zolhof (Apr 26, 2021)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Thanks for the correction.
> 
> Can you tell me if it's also possible to independently control volume via cc11 (expression) or cc7 for each artic as well? So not just setting a static volume mix, but sending expression/volume automation that could affect, say, pizz without also affecting legato, spicc, etc? That would make my day.


Yes, like toecutter pointed you, it is possible but you need to be vigilant with your CC curves to avoid microphones overlapping. Another small caveat is that you lose the volume flexibility if you stack articulations, since the player isn't multi timbral. At the moment, you have to treat the MIDI signal like one continuous individual flow or load a new player for that. I think Spitfire has a solid foundation and AFAIK they are working on some of those requests but they've been very quiet.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 26, 2021)




----------



## gives19 (Apr 26, 2021)

constaneum said:


> i wonder is SSB and SSW worth the upgrade. SSS a must for me ! Does the a6 patches sound better in SSB pro edition with the outrigger? hmmm


Only if you get it for the Already owned price. I would not otherwise, but that's me..


----------



## justthere (Apr 27, 2021)

Well. Here's what's likely going to be an unpopular opinion: Multiple mic positions have to be one of the least-usable features in any library, for me.

(With me the end result is what I render and deliver - no live musicians - so I suppose that for giving a general idea or like that, multi-mic things could be fun. But...)

For starters, they make a library sluggish and un-agile in the legatos. Transitions are wonky and distracting. And you have to add reverb to mask things the library isn't good at - not because you want it. You are stuck with the room's decay time. Switching to close mics almost always includes plenty of reverb time except now it's mono and in an odd place between too soft and too loud. So more reverb or artificial-sounding enveloping. And then there's combining libraries. Unless they are similarly dry, you have to add a common element, which is - more reverb. 

What I would prefer is a library that's recorded fairly close, that is bundled with locked-down positioning IR's made from great rooms. I say "locked down" because studios these days don't really want to hand over IR's of their rooms, but might be willing to license their use in a library from which they could not be extracted. 

And also - just dryer rooms in general - shorter RT's. Because you can add your epic tail verb - you can add your epic early reflections even - but you can't take them away. You have to go with another library. 

Yes, the earlier VSL libraries did this - all recorded on a dry stage, and then you could put things into MIR. But though the instruments were and are pretty efficient, I feel like MIR is a bit of a pig. And the instruments were not designed to be as easily dynamic as more contemporary ones. Definitely a library you have to work. I have owned a ton of their stuff and still use it quite a bit. 

But as far as responsiveness goes, the future is in modeling and micro-sampling, and none of that requires an actual room sound - and why doesn't it? Because once you do away with dragging the room around with you everywhere, you can actually *play* the instruments - as opposed to learning to do things that the library will allow. I'm not railing against how conventional sampling is essentially a one-way collaboration with recordings of other people thinking about something completely different than what you are; although it is, we've all lived with that for years. And lots of folks don't want to play like a bassoon player would - they want something that rings enough familiarity bells to get through the gig. I can respect that. But what I'm saying is that the tons of mic positions in BBC were marketing - it gets the user away from thinking about how small the actual library is. 664 GB is big, until you realize that their full orchestra with one position fits into one twentieth of that - 33.2 GB. In contrast, SSO's strings alone are 101.8 GB on my drive, and with three mic positions that means that one mic position for those strings are as large as one position for the entire BBC orchestra. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of liking the BBC orchestra, but unless the data compression is many, many times more efficient now, it's not exactly their deepest-sampled library, is it? And I won't dispute anyone's feelings about the sound of mic bleed and what it does to make things feel glued together - but I think I would rather have had one good close perspective and lots of IR's. 

That said, I updated SSS and added it back in to my template because some things are better now. Looking at the other two next.


----------



## jbuhler (Apr 27, 2021)

justthere said:


> Well. Here's what's likely going to be an unpopular opinion: Multiple mic positions have to be one of the least-usable features in any library, for me.
> 
> (With me the end result is what I render and deliver - no live musicians - so I suppose that for giving a general idea or like that, multi-mic things could be fun. But...)
> 
> ...


That’s one view and if it’s how you feel then you really shouldn’t be buying any of the big wet SF libraries. They are never going to give you what you want. As for me I can’t stand dry libraries and always prefer to work with libraries that have a decent amount of room even if that means dealing with (or ignoring) the issues that result from that.


----------



## Mike Fox (Apr 27, 2021)

justthere said:


> Well. Here's what's likely going to be an unpopular opinion: Multiple mic positions have to be one of the least-usable features in any library, for me.
> 
> (With me the end result is what I render and deliver - no live musicians - so I suppose that for giving a general idea or like that, multi-mic things could be fun. But...)
> 
> ...


I actually agree with a lot of this.

To counteract some of what you’ve mentioned, I’ve been using SSS and SCS as layering libs, and stack them with dryer libs. It really helps mask some of the imperfections from Spitfire’s strings (tuning issues, weird transitions, etc.), but it also adds some extra warmth and “oomph” that comes from Lyndhurst.

SSS/SCS and Afflatus have become one of my favorite layering combos!


----------



## Evans (Apr 27, 2021)

I appreciate the long duration of this sale. I've always loved the AIR sound, but went down a Teldex route, instead. 

I could easily pick up this series (probably SSS instead of SCS), but I might as well wait to see how Sonokinetic Strings turns out, listen to some more Performance Samples demos, and see what Cinesamples announces...

Anyone else looking at a fresh purchase and not upgrading?


----------



## Mike Fox (Apr 27, 2021)

Evans said:


> Anyone else looking at a fresh purchase and not upgrading?


I won’t be doing either of those, lol!

If SSS/SCS were my go-to, then I’d be all over this sale, but I mainly just use them for layering.

I’m also pretty content with my current string arsenal, though I’ve got my eyes on Pacific.


----------



## CT (Apr 27, 2021)

justthere said:


> But what I'm saying is that the tons of mic positions in BBC were marketing


As jbuhler said, it seems like these are just not the right libraries for you based on everything in this post. You want very fine performance control and consider IR placement a sufficient substitute for a more lively sampled sound. There are definitely some VIs which cater to that way of working, and I used to do it myself. I kind of went in the opposite direction as you though when I realized that, in all likelihood, the vast majority of any music that is ever heard from me will be done with virtual instruments. I decided I wasn't going to mess around with science experiments anymore trying to make stuff that wasn't well-recorded sound like it was. 

To me, it's the highly playable and less sonically pleasing instruments that seem better suited to just getting an idea of the music, as you said, but for prime time, you've gotta have the genuine article, that control. I think we're at a point now which demands that we be somewhat competent as ersatz engineers, in addition to any compositional concerns, and that we have the necessary tools. Mics, any amount of them, are absolutely not just a marketing thing.


----------



## curtisschweitzer (Apr 27, 2021)

Mike T said:


> ...Mics, any amount of them, are absolutely not just a marketing thing.


I can understand that some folks aren't going to use 20 mic positions, and that's fine. But I can't agree with the above enough, multiple mics *can* be incredibly useful from a flexibility standpoint, giving you the freedom to take a library and make it completely different simply by moving some faders around. Like anything else in life, that advantage comes with tradeoffs (smaller #'s of dynamic layers to keep the sheer size of the library sane, having to occasionally wrestle a room into submission, etc.), but so does the ultra-dry VSL approach, which can easily veer off the cliff into "incredibly synthy and unconvincing" if one isn't careful. 

Indeed, just the outrigger mics in SSO Pro make a compelling argument that that more mics is a *lot* more than a marketing gimmick.


----------



## CT (Apr 27, 2021)

curtisschweitzer said:


> I can understand that some folks aren't going to use 20 mic positions, and that's fine. But I can't agree with the above enough, multiple mics *can* be incredibly useful from a flexibility standpoint, giving you the freedom to take a library and make it completely different simply by moving some faders around. Like anything else in life, that advantage comes with tradeoffs (smaller #'s of dynamic layers to keep the sheer size of the library sane, having to occasionally wrestle a room into submission, etc.), but so does the ultra-dry VSL approach, which can easily veer off the cliff into "incredibly synthy and unconvincing" if one isn't careful.
> 
> Indeed, just the outrigger mics in SSO Pro make a compelling argument that that more mics is a *lot* more than a marketing gimmick.


Yeah, I certainly don't use 20 mic positions; I've whittled my BBCSO folder down a fair amount actually, and it's still hugely flexible. The other day, there was discussion about how intimate you can get with it, and it is _really_ useful to be able to pluck an instrument out of its symphonic context and use it in a totally different way. Wouldn't want to have to jump through hoops to do that with drier samples which, to me, offer the illusion of flexibility but fall short of the mark of pretty much any attempted recording context. Fun to play, and maybe fun to make it sound like you're hearing music from the cheap seats, but not fun for an actual well-recorded sound. Funny, I just recently stumbled on an old thread of mine from years back detailing the astounding amount of goofy gymnastics I was undertaking to get some dry libraries to sound kind of ok. I don't miss it....

I do lament the shallower sampling of BBCSO as compared to SSO, but then there are qualities I very much appreciate in the former that I think wouldn't be present in the latter, as well as some inconsistencies resulting from the modular approach, and this is what's held me back from moving over to SSO, well, that and the Abbey Road development. I am tempted though, which reminds me, why am I even risking looking at this thread?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 27, 2021)

People claiming mic position doesn't matter are people that have never recorded anything properly in any sort of space. I mean, holy shit. How ridiculous is that statement. Take even a single mic and try to record an acoustic guitar and move it around - it makes a TON of difference.


----------



## justthere (Apr 27, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> That’s one view and if it’s how you feel then you really shouldn’t be buying any of the big wet SF libraries. They are never going to give you what you want. As for me I can’t stand dry libraries and always prefer to work with libraries that have a decent amount of room even if that means dealing with (or ignoring) the issues that result from that.


Yes, it’s one view. I feel less popular already!


----------



## justthere (Apr 27, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> People claiming mic position doesn't matter are people that have never recorded anything properly in any sort of space. I mean, holy shit. How ridiculous is that statement. Take even a single mic and try to record an acoustic guitar and move it around - it makes a TON of difference.


Who said mic position doesn’t matter? Wasn’t me.


----------



## justthere (Apr 27, 2021)

Because there seems to be some misunderstanding about what I wrote - and maybe I didn’t get this across - I will clarify. 

Lots of people like BBC. That’s fine with me. I feel like there was a lot of hype surrounding this library that kind of overwhelmed its shortcomings. So let me be clear about mic positions: they are great as long as they don’t interfere with the playability of an instrument, or introduce artifacts as a result of having to follow what close perspectives are doing. _And the number of them is secondary to the responsiveness of an instrument._ I can’t think of a time when I thought, “wow, the transition into vibrato of this instrument sure is wonky. Why don’t I try using the bassoon mic perspective on it?”

So why is the library like this? My guess is that it’s cheaper to pay an editor to program than it is to pay players (and the studio and engineers) to play more dynamics and more articulations. So rather than having a 120GB library with a ton of articulations and dynamics, we have a 600+GB library with twenty mic perspectives. I’m not suggesting it’s worthless to have, but it’s not the way I would have had them lean. Prefer it when they do as they did with SSO - lots of articulations first, more mics later. Making a library is a huge undertaking, to be sure. But I will say that I’m really over hearing that from the people who make the libraries, to justify why something is wrong with one of theirs. To say nothing of the whole “it’s human” argument. What I always say to that is , “welp, those humans needed to play that a few more times.”

That BBC library was not going to be all things to all people. No library is. None of them are above reproach, no matter how expensive they are. (I could go on about Berlin Strings.) Critiquing them doesn’t mean they are garbage, or that other people can’t enjoy them - unless, perhaps, by some remote possibility, the criticism either reveals a limitation previously unconsidered or makes someone worry that they’d been wrong all along. But I’m not telling anyone they are wrong for liking something or using it or getting daily results out of it. That would be ridiculous. 

I have lots of Spitfire stuff, but whether I do or not has nothing to do with the rather empirical nature of the problems of multichannel samples. I know why it’s done - good convolution reverbs are a bit DSP-hungry, and developers are not pursuing the refinement of convolution-capturing techniques so much - they are trying to put out libraries. 

And the bulk of their market - because of the nature of the business at this point - is comprised of people who want to press a key and hear something that sounds like it emotes - not strap on a controller, pump the pedals, massage a lumpy keyboard and wave their hands over infrared light wearing rings and gloves. 

(I like a lot of that stuff myself. Except Roli’s, which to take it further feel like rubbing a manta ray with a skin condition. But don’t get upset about that either - it’s just my opinion. Please don’t let that interfere with your enjoyable time fondling that thing. For my part, I will instead go blow into a small plastic pipe to simulate dynamics on instruments that one doesn’t blow into.)

Why enter into a conversation and say things that people who enjoy a product won’t agree with? Because you don’t have to agree with everything. I like plenty of things about Spitfire libraries in general - the recordings are good, I like UACC a lot, the Time Machine patches are a great idea, and Aperture is one of my favorite sit-and-play instruments ever. But I don’t like a lot of their programming, the way they often handle releases, the SSB Tuba sustains, the lack of intensity in the brass in some of their offerings, and above all the feeling (to me) that one will be most successful with their offerings if one writes the way they write. But they are tools I reach for sometimes, because every library has some issue or another. It’s just life. I’ve heard people rant about libraries they hate and then their tracks have the Kurzweil piano with that horrible beating note that jumps out every time. As the poet Fat Bastard said, “everyone likes their own brand.” But I have actually been to a few sessions with live orchestra (more than a few), as variously producer, music editor or recordist, as well as countless other recording sessions of all kinds. Mic placement is very important, of course - if the source is good then the capture has to be good to represent it. And I wouldn’t suggest only close-micing an orchestra and using IR’s later, for a simple reason: because a real orchestra is *already* a real orchestra, in a suitable space (presumably). One might augment the room or pull focus with panning and levels, but essentially that’s the thing we are trying to recreate when we use VI’s. But _recreating_ an orchestra - especially when combining recordings done in different places and in different ways - is vastly different.

And also - if the sound you want is always the same more or less, you’d go to the same place all the time. But this is why the Newman stage sounds different from the old O’Henry or Todd or Capital A or The Village D or East West or wherever. It might be presumptuous to assume that because I don’t always like the result of making SSO sound like anything other than the hallowed AIR room, or because I dislike the bumpy and blurred legatos that result from dragging trees and outriggers and everything else behind the close mics when I’m getting through a manic animated project, that I have no idea what I’m doing. It could be that I’m hearing something in particular that doesn’t work for me, and have the words to describe it. It’s certainly possible that I lack the skill to handle this task - but I don’t think that’s it. If someone disagrees, maybe they have a better way of doing it, or maybe they are used to what they have - no crime in that. Please take my criticism in the way that it’s intended - to push for better things for all of us to use. These libraries aren’t free, by a long shot, and we live with them and squeeze music out of them constantly, so I want them to be as good as they can be and as flexible as they can be. Doesn’t make me think I’m better or worse than anyone else at composing or mixing. Here’s hoping everyone gets the result they want.


----------



## Vik (Apr 28, 2021)

justthere said:


> For starters, they make a library sluggish and un-agile in the legatos. Transitions are wonky and distracting. And you have to add reverb to mask things the library isn't good at - not because you want it


Re. enabling a lot of mic positions: Never underestimate the value of freezing tracks. If you use Logic or another DAW which automatically purges Kontakt samples after a freeze, you’ll get a lot ore RAM available.
Also: bounce and freeze functions will, if needed, be executed slower-than-real-time if needed. That’s somehow a benefit of the faster-than-real-time function. Result: quirks and clicks and pops go away, because freeze “gives you more memory and cpu power”.


----------



## c99 (Apr 28, 2021)

Well this is a heck of a thread to jump into as a first time poster here (!)

But I wanted to give my impressions of SSO Pro given that I fall into that apparent minority of people (at least in this thread) who purchased the Pro collection for the first time. 

There are reasons I took the plunge: 1/ the current bundle pricing, 2/ the reintroduction of the alt mics, stereo mixes, and the outrigger streams, 3/ the established reputation and overall maturity of the product, and 4/ the use of Kontakt.

The pricing, for someone starting from ground zero (I do have Studio Orchestra Pro), is actually outstanding - particularly if you ignore the 10 year history of packaging, repackaging, refreshing, and upgrading of samples that apparently have their origins tied to Mural. If I had been asked to re-purchase something I already had in my possession (with significant maintenance fixes), I probably would feel a bit let down/disappointed too. Expectations were set high. That said, as a newcomer waiting patiently to pounce on it this collection is an absolute bargain. I came close during the last Winter sale; however, the lack of mics held me back (e.g., why would I buy something that was, at that time, more powerful ~2-3 years ago when those expansion packs were available) ?

Regarding the mics, I do feel they open up the potential floodgates for "fiddling and distraction"; however, having that palette on tap, is just too empowering. These mic streams represent extreme conditions: "focused / defined ribbon" to "time-smeared gallery". The ability to selectively blend the close-ribbon with the outrigger (in particular) gives one the benefit of sharpening the sound while simultaneously having the benefit of increased spatiality. The stereo JJ mixes represent that spectrum along that continuum, and are a great short cut. I believe I will simply rely on them 90% of the time.

I appreciate some of the points being made about convolution and modeling "being the future". There is a computational cost there, particularly when you factor in the number of different IRs involved with 7 streams. Also, when recording, are musicians going to be as inspired having their performances recorded in perfect anechoic chambers or inspiring wood-paneled churches ? There is some transcendental magic. I bought this library precisely because the space sounds good, and not because I'm going to "need" to stack Telex with Air with Abby Road. I'm more likely to stack completely different synthetic or non-orchestral sources, and am assuming that close mics will simply do their intended job when called upon.

Regarding the maturity of the product. My understanding is that there are somewhere between 5-10 years of knowledge encoded in this incredible library (starting with Mural). It will take any newcomer libraries, years, to attain that level of completeness. Yes, SSO Pro really does feel like a "last journey" of an incredible ship - a grand send off if you will - gussied up with a coat of fancy paint (bug fixes) and 7 new engines (streams) that were already there. But the fact that Spitfire may have slightly overstepped their marketing in putting this together (particularly with owners of previous incarnations of this library), does not take away from the fundamental value proposition. How may companies actually follow through on major bug fixes like this ?

Finally, regarding Kontakt. It's far from perfect, but it could take the Spitfire Player years to reach that level of maturity as well. Writing software that is extremely resource efficient and that scales well, is very difficult. 

The primary issue I'm having with the library, is the SSS subset of it. As others have mentioned, the sheer number of string players "per voice" really does lead to a synth-like quality when playing ensembles. SCS and "open voicing's" help greatly here, but I constantly have to fight this given my background as a piano player (tips welcome !)


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 28, 2021)

c99 said:


> But I wanted to give my impressions of SSO Pro given that I fall into that apparent minority of people (at least in this thread) who purchased the Pro collection for the first time.
> 
> There are reasons I took the plunge: 1/ the current bundle pricing, 2/ the reintroduction of the alt mics, stereo mixes, and the outrigger streams, 3/ the established reputation and overall maturity of the product, and 4/ the use of Kontakt.


SSO (the "base" version) was my first sample library purchase as well. During last year's spring sale, there was a special bundle with SSO + Harp for $898. I had planned on getting the Scoring Essentials bundle (Albion One + Solo Strings + OACE) and SCS to start with, but SSO for $898 put a wrench into that plan. I ended up getting that SSO + Harp bundle, then completed the SSO Chamber Edition bundle to get Chamber Strings at the lowest possible price, and the Symphony Complete bundle to get JB Percussion also at the best price. I still wanted Solo Strings and OACE and was going to buy them separately (at 40% off), but it turned out that the Scoring Essentials bundle with both of those and Albion One was only $100 more, so I went with that. I figured getting Albion One for $100 was a no-brainer, as it would give me an alternative sketching library than the one included with SSO (Masse). And I happen to like it, quite a bit actually.

I think the total cost for everything was $2100. Had the current $2000 SSO Complete Professional bundle + completing the SSO Pro Chamber String Edition bundle for $500 extra been available, it would had been a very tempting alternative. But I still think I would have gone with my original purchase. The "base" SSO (plus SCS and JB Perc) is an amazing set of libraries, and the additional libraries (that made my total amount spent in the same ballpark as the current SSO Complete Professional + Chamber Edition bundles purchased together) added quite a bit – more than what the extra mics for SSO adds, in my opinion.

It still would had been a very difficult decision though. You made a good choice, and I think the libraries you bought will inspire you greatly. SSO has a very specific sound, which isn't for everyone, but if it is a sound that you like (which seems to be the case for you), then it was the right choice.



c99 said:


> The primary issue I'm having with the library, is the SSS subset of it. As others have mentioned, the sheer number of string players "per voice" really does lead to a synth-like quality when playing ensembles. SCS and "open voicing's" help greatly here, but I constantly have to fight this given my background as a piano player (tips welcome !)


SSS does sound "synthy" when playing large chords with the ensemble patch in isolation. A part of this is the relatively slow attack making a "sucking" sound when you change chords. I figured out a way to help a bit with this:

1. Set up your desired mic mix for the Ensemble Long articulation.

2. Turn on the "Mic Mix to Articulation Linker". This allows you to set separate mic mixes for each articulation in a patch.

3. Select the Short 0.5" articulation, and set its mic mix to around 50-60% of the mix that was "pulled in" from step 1 (since that mic mix was made before you turned on the separate mixes for each articulation option, you were setting the mic mix for _all_ articulations in step 1).

4. Enable the 'CC mapped velocity' option, and set the short articulation release trigger option to "Timed short artic RTs". The first option lets the Short 0.5" articulation work like the Long articulation with regards to velocity (mod wheel controls volume/dynamics instead of keyboard velocity). The second option will prevent the Short 0.5" articulation from continuing to sound if you change any chords in less than half a second.

5. Use the shift key to select the Long articulation, to layer the two articulations together.

The "sharper" attack on the Short 0.5" articulation will get the notes to sound earlier when playing or recording parts from your MIDI controller. And the short articulation will stop right around where the long articulation reaches its full volume, so it won't sound like "doubling up" the number of players.

You'll still have the large number of players contributing to the "synthy" sound, but at least the part of that sound from the slow attack is reduced. Reducing the number of notes played at any one time will also help. However, to actually get rid of it, you need to split out the parts you recorded with the ensemble patch into their individual sections.

You could also try the Marcato Attack articulation, but that adds a pretty heavy accent to the beginning of each note you play. There is also the Giant Epic Long articulation in the Masse strings patch, which has some additional orchestration baked in, like lower notes having the cellos and basses playing in octaves. Because of this, you'll of course need to limit the number of notes played at any one time even more than you would with the regular ensemble longs, but when played right, I think it sounds less "synthy".

But separating out the parts after recording them with the ensemble patch is what you really need to do in the end. Everything else is just a band-aid.

Now, the ensemble patch in Chamber Strings doesn't seem to suffer from this. I think it is quite usable in a piece directly. It of course still benefits from having the parts split and put into individual sections.


----------



## Vik (Apr 28, 2021)

I found out that I can get SSS Pro (edited; I first wrote SSO Pro) for 64 Euro + tax since I have bought both the core version and some Mural stuff, but I haven't found out how much vacant disc space I need to update from Core to Pro. Does anyone here know something about this?


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 28, 2021)

Vik said:


> I found out that I can get SSO Pro for 64 Euro + tax since I have bought both the core version and some Mural stuff, but I haven't found out how much vacant disc space I need to update from Core to Pro. Does anyone here know something about this?


The extra content is just under 500 GB. If my math is correct, you'll need around 1 TB free to install everything if you do it one by one (strings, brass, then woodwinds), or 1.5 TB if you download all three simultaneously.


----------



## justthere (Apr 28, 2021)

Vik said:


> Re. enabling a lot of mic positions: Never underestimate the value of freezing tracks. If you use Logic or another DAW which automatically purges Kontakt samples after a freeze, you’ll get a lot ore RAM available.
> Also: bounce and freeze functions will, if needed, be executed slower-than-real-time if needed. That’s somehow a benefit of the faster-than-real-time function. Result: quirks and clicks and pops go away, because freeze “gives you more memory and cpu power”.


I don’t mean sluggish in terms of slowing a computer down - I mean in terms of agility. The transitions between legato notes become blurry - ill-defined - no matter what adjustments you might make.


----------



## Vik (Apr 28, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> The extra content is just under 500 GB. If my math is correct, you'll need around 1 TB free to install everything if you do it one by one (strings, brass, then woodwinds), or 1.5 TB if you download all three simultaneously.


Thanks, I have changed my post now because I wrote SSO Pro. I meant SSS Pro.


----------



## Vik (Apr 28, 2021)

justthere said:


> I don’t mean sluggish in terms of slowing a computer down - I mean in terms of agility. The transitions between legato notes become blurry - ill-defined - no matter what adjustments you might make.


I have noticed that if one of the cores are shown as not having more capacity, I can still add more activity to that channel strip without getting any kind of warning or overload message, and I read some time ago that Logic (or was it Kontakt?) in such 'steals' some voices. Maybe some of the stuff that is being removed in such vases actually are legato transitions, and. that this is why you get that behaviour? Have you checked if this happens when a core/thread is shown as not having any more capacity in the CPU meter?


----------



## dzilizzi (Apr 28, 2021)

c99 said:


> The primary issue I'm having with the library, is the SSS subset of it. As others have mentioned, the sheer number of string players "per voice" really does lead to a synth-like quality when playing ensembles. SCS and "open voicing's" help greatly here, but I constantly have to fight this given my background as a piano player (tips welcome !)


Unlike pianos, string players typically play one note at a time, so each section should normally only play one note. When you put an ensemble patch together and play like a piano, you will have too many strings playing each note because of the overlap in ranges. Strings also play with a bow that moves across the strings slightly unevenly, so you need to use the modwheel to add a bit of movement. Without taking this into account, you get a lovely synth sound with any string library you use. 

Believe me. I have a lot of string libraries, and until I figured out these basics, they all sounded synthy.


----------



## Vik (Apr 28, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Strings also play with a bow that moves across the strings slightly unevenly, so you need to use the modwheel to add a bit of movement.


So true, especially for libraries that are recorded ‘without movement’.


----------



## CT (Apr 28, 2021)

Vik said:


> Re. enabling a lot of mic positions: Never underestimate the value of freezing tracks. If you use Logic or another DAW which automatically purges Kontakt samples after a freeze, you’ll get a lot ore RAM available.
> Also: bounce and freeze functions will, if needed, be executed slower-than-real-time if needed. That’s somehow a benefit of the faster-than-real-time function. Result: quirks and clicks and pops go away, because freeze “gives you more memory and cpu power”.


Yeah, actually even with a supercomputer I think I would be doing an initial performance with a single mic, and then exporting every needed mic position to separate audio files to be mixed in another project altogether. I don't know if there's really much benefit to running multiple mics at once in real time unless you're just spoiled with CPU power and figure, what the hell?


----------



## AEF (Apr 28, 2021)

I finally upgraded my SCS.....i actually cant believe how different the mic mixes make this library sound. Its really fantastic. Jake’s mixes are outstanding. Might have to do SSS now too.


----------



## c99 (Apr 28, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> SSS does sound "synthy" when playing large chords with the ensemble patch in isolation. A part of this is the relatively slow attack making a "sucking" sound when you change chords. I figured out a way to help a bit with this:
> 
> 1. Set up your desired mic mix for the Ensemble Long articulation.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that insight regarding "fast attack" speeds. Experimenting with these 'workarounds' tonight. Much appreciated.


----------



## Larry Dickstein (Apr 28, 2021)

AEF said:


> I finally upgraded my SCS.....i actually cant believe how different the mic mixes make this library sound. Its really fantastic. Jake’s mixes are outstanding. Might have to do SSS now too.


@AEF, can you elaborate how SCS sounds different with these mic mixes?


----------



## turnerofwheels (Apr 28, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Yeah, actually even with a supercomputer I think I would be doing an initial performance with a single mic, and then exporting every needed mic position to separate audio files to be mixed in another project altogether. I don't know if there's really much benefit to running multiple mics at once in real time unless you're just spoiled with CPU power and figure, what the hell?


I mix mics as I go because blending timbre via mixing and spacialization is as much a part of composition as blending via orchestration, choosing articulations, arranging harmonies etc

My computer is 4 years old and no slouch, but mics have minimal impact on CPU performance IME unless you have a ton of channels actively playing audio at the same time


----------



## CT (Apr 28, 2021)

SHANE TURNER said:


> I mix as I go because blending timbre via mixing and soundstaging is as much a part of composition as blending via orchestration, choosing articulations, arranging harmonies etc


Yeah that makes sense. I just try to have an idea of how things will be mixed and positioned beforehand so I can approach it after the fact, as if I were sitting at the big desk with the engineer after conducting the performance.

My computer is going on 10 years old and using multiple mics definitely does not have a minimal impact on performance....


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 28, 2021)

SCS with the J.J. (F) mix sounds wonderful, and saves me lots of RAM. I just add a touch of algorithmic reverb to taste.


----------



## Christopher Rocky (Apr 29, 2021)

Would really love an A + B comparison (to cta) of the mixes and mics.

I'm sure a really lovely awesome legend of a person will make a direct comparison soon enough 😉

I've listened to some of the scs mic comparison vids, mainly this one 
But you have to jump around to hear comparisons to the tree mic and other mixes. The most difference I can tell is from the outriggers like others have said. The alt mics add a lot of low midrange freq in the stereo mic too.

I'd really like to hear the brass and winds pro.
But tbh without A B comparisons the sound seems negligible (of what I've heard so far) , in that it makes a very minor difference to the already CTA mics.

I don't understand why there aren't demo's on spitfires website at the very least that show off the differences of the alt mics and jj mixes. I find that to be a little bit suspect, the livestream and walkthrough didn't really have much substance in this regard (from what I could see from Chensons screen, he was using scs standard too)

Another thing that worries me is if I use the alt mic patch and the ctao patch on the same channel, won't the samples be playing different RRs? Effectively doubling your size of the patch? I know it's been said in here before but I don't think anyone really clarified. the alt mics would only be usable on thier own if that's the case.

I really hope it adds enough to warrant the upgrade but without ample evidence I won't be jumping in as I plan on getting all of AROOF. I'm happy they're leaving the upgrade discount for all of this month for everyone to share thier experience.


----------



## AEF (Apr 29, 2021)

Larry Dickstein said:


> @AEF, can you elaborate how SCS sounds different with these mic mixes?


Id say it sounds like the smaller section that it is. Tighter, less room sound but still full. Easier to blend and add reverb to as well.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso (Apr 29, 2021)

Christopher Rocky said:


> Another thing that worries me is if I use the alt mic patch and the ctao patch on the same channel, won't the samples be playing different RRs? Effectively doubling your size of the patch? I know it's been said in here before but I don't think anyone really clarified. the alt mics would only be usable on thier own if that's the case.


The RRs are cycled through in order, not at random, so I believe this shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## gives19 (Apr 29, 2021)

AEF said:


> I finally upgraded my SCS.....i actually cant believe how different the mic mixes make this library sound. Its really fantastic. Jake’s mixes are outstanding. Might have to do SSS now too.


This is good for me to know. Thanks for this post! I just was wondering as I just got off a chat with Spitfire about upgrading my library. They said it was mostly mic positions, but also some refinements, whatever that meant. It's only $180 for me to cross-grade and I can to that anytime.


----------



## justthere (Apr 29, 2021)

Vik said:


> I have noticed that if one of the cores are shown as not having more capacity, I can still add more activity to that channel strip without getting any kind of warning or overload message, and I read some time ago that Logic (or was it Kontakt?) in such 'steals' some voices. Maybe some of the stuff that is being removed in such vases actually are legato transitions, and. that this is why you get that behaviour? Have you checked if this happens when a core/thread is shown as not having any more capacity in the CPU meter?


Apologies for this long post. TL;DR: it’s not wrong to want things to be better. 

That’s something, isn’t it - that voice stealing can happen unannounced and there is no point in the software, either daw or sample player, in which it reports that it’s happening. But this happens when playing single legato instruments for me, in simple passages. The strings transitions, for example, are often glaring enough in close or tree without adding more perspectives, which make the issues more obvious. And this is in Cubase, VEPro and Logic. It’s not the result of a voice (or many) being dropped, and it’s not hard drive speed - my drives are nvme’s and the bus has a ton of headroom. it’s just not great programming or it’s forcing recordings to stand in for things they aren’t suited for. And no other library - not Berlin Strings or CSS or Vienna or 8Dio or SampleModeling Strings or Hollywood Strings or any of the others - behaves in this particular way - though they all have their issues. It’s the way they make this stuff work within their operating parameters that I don’t always like. 

It’s certainly possible to avoid the issues any library has in many cases. What I object to is that in the middle of a project when I’m cranking out a dense cue, if I run into one of those things that a library just doesn’t do well, like a legato from C4 to E4 that I need for a melody, I’m at a crossroads where I have to step outside of the process and think about ways around it - do I use a different library? Do I figure out another way to do the thing in a way the library isn’t designed to do? Or - most pernicious of all - do I change the line to suit the virtual instrument I’m using? I’m on a deadline here - I don’t have time to argue with something - wouldn’t it be easier if I just didn’t do that run, or didn’t use that interval there, or masked it with a horn thing? And the answer is: to hell with a bit of code nudging me to other notes. 

What could the harm be in knowing your library and its limitations and working around to play the library as an instrument? Of course that’s absolutely necessary. But ask yourself this: how much of the music people are cranking out these days is “epic” or “ambient”? How much of that is influenced by what libraries do well or not? Because good recordings of interesting things aside (and that is something there’s a lot of in Spitfire libraries to be sure), those two things are fairly easy to generate from libraries, programming-wise. Aggressive sounding stuff we can find anywhere now. (Except in BBC horns, apparently.) And cool diaphanous slow ambient textures are easy too. And from a recording and programming standpoint, simpler to do than great legato and great transitions from ppp to fff and no vibrato to molto vibrato and lots of layers of dynamics. It’s hard - very hard - to do. And even harder to do convincingly in the conventional manner of recording long notes etc. So what impact do you think that has upon music being written? In the same way that some things are easier on piano than guitar, or on instruments than voice, because these libraries are distinct instruments in their own right, some things are easier on some libraries than others, and it’s my feeling that they exert a subtle influence upon what people choose to do with them. Like different daws do as well. And I speak up about these things because I want for the influence of a library to be minimal other than the positive feeling one gets when one hears it in action.

It’s probably true that someone who is writing something that they know will end up played by other humans is less concerned overall with these things and perhaps has a clearer mental image of what the music will sound in the future - all this person has to do is have something that’s close enough to convince a client that the direction is right. But if the end product is a rendered audio file, or if the composer simply wants their ideas realized in a very accurate manner that doesn’t involve more plate-juggling than necessary, then there will be issues with libraries that don’t do certain things very well. Yes, that’s why some of us have lots of libraries, but that can get tedious and cumbersome fast. 

Many of us say “that’s close enough” or “that will get this moment to go by” a lot, because we have many other moments to get through. I have, many times. But what I’m kind of over is situations like this: I want to do a quick run in the violins. I play the notes. The run sounds washy even with the engine’s built-in whiz-bang speed-sensing legato switcher. I speed up the transitions. It sounds synthy or lacks definition. I switch to the “fast” run articulation (if available). It’s not really any better. I look at pre-recorded runs (if the library has them). They need to be stretched to fit, or if this is done automatically the time is still not quite right. This scenario is very common in the realm of conventional sample playback libraries. Or how about this: I play in or step-edit in an ostinato figure. It is on the grid but its timing is wobbly. So I have a few choices: I can use some sample-start trimming on all of the notes so they are all equally in time and equally weird-sounding; I can load a “cog” version of the sound on another track and edit individual sounds and then insert a round-robin reset at the beginning of the phrase so that the notes play back the same every time (until I change anything); or I can record it as audio and edit the attacks of notes that are too far out. (There are more options, but that’s enough.) That is too much - any of that - for me to have to do, just so someone can say it’s possible to do.

And I understand why it’s hard and expensive - I’m just tired of hearing that all the time. Just put out a library that doesn’t do that stuff and charge what it costs to make that - I know it won’t be US$1000. (And maybe since these things are run by real businesses with experience in this area now, as opposed to the ad-hoc endeavors of the past, say how much an existing library would have to be to get rid of these issues - so you can find out how many people would be okay with it.) Add a day or five to the recording sessions. Capture IR’s of the room that are embedded in such a manner that no one can extract and use them for any other purpose. 

Last - to other users - if you are happy with what you have, do not consider this to be an attack on your sensibilities or your taste or your ability to perceive issues - it’s not. And I know there are other libraries out there - I have many of those too - so saying these aren’t for me is off the mark. I want them all to be better for everyone. You know how when you get a new TV and its resolution is way better than what you had before, or you get new speakers and hear things way better, or finally get good acoustic treatment for your room and everything sounds better to you? It’s like a weight has been lifted, kind of, isn’t it? It’s because one has been - maybe one you weren’t even aware of: the weight of computational overhead done by your brain to fill in gaps of resolution or to compensate for playback issues and so on. When I get a new library that gets rid of certain issues, I am _unburdened by things that I no longer have to ignore to get through my project_. That’s what I want.


----------



## andyhy (Apr 29, 2021)

I decided in the end to take into account comments in this forum, the continued absence of that for me critical staccato articulation in SSS as well as my own ram limitations re the additional presets needed for the extra microphone positions. I concluded that SSO is not for me although I defer to others who have more experience in these matters. Had it been ported to the SF Player I would have had more pause for thought (although that has its fair share of critics) but clearly it ain't happening. I have the Air sound already thanks to SCS and am very happy with it supplemented by other popular libraries like BBCSO Pro, AROOF, the Cinematic Studio Series, BSS, BWW and BS. I will save my limited budget for the new AR1 modules because that feels like the future to me whereas SSO Pro feels like a sticking plaster version of the past.


----------



## InLight-Tone (Apr 29, 2021)

“Perfect is the enemy of done”…


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Apr 29, 2021)

c99 said:


> Thank you for that insight regarding "fast attack" speeds. Experimenting with these 'workarounds' tonight. Much appreciated.


Sure thing! Just don't expect any miracles, you'll still have the underlying problem of too many voices when the ensemble patch is played like a piano. It just makes things feel better when playing, more like the Chamber Strings ensemble patch (which does seem to have a fast attack / short overlay on higher velocities).


----------



## justthere (Apr 30, 2021)

InLight-Tone said:


> “Perfect is the enemy of done”…


Ineffective is the enemy of awesome.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Apr 30, 2021)

justthere said:


> Ineffective is the enemy of awesome.


VIC is the enemy of productivity.


----------



## Vik (Apr 30, 2021)

justthere said:


> And I understand why it’s hard and expensive - I’m just tired of hearing that all the time. Just put out a library that doesn’t do that stuff and charge what it costs to make that - I know it won’t be US$1000.


Thanks for your long post, @justthere. Since quite a few of us have invested in string libraries that, combined, cost a lot more than one probably would probably have to pay for one that goes further than any of the existing ones, I guess there is a market for detailed libraries that takes all the important and sometimes expensive user requests into consideration: not only 3 or 4 dyn. layers, enough length variations, enough round robins and so on, including what you described.

With most string libraries, users need to buy five instruments/sections even if we only need a V1 with better quick runs or a double bass with long enough sustains. That fact maybe be a main enemy of future development of libraries that go further than the current ones (in all relevant areas) – because there's already a limited number of users that can afford the most expensive libraries. 

I'm glad I didn't have to buy bass, drums, keyboards and a singer that needs autotune back when I bought my first guitar, even if these five often operate together.  I hope more string library makers will consider both more modular, detailed libraries and more modular buying options.


----------



## lgmcben (Apr 30, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> VIC is the enemy of productivity.


Why? I read VIC, buy some libraries, and become John Williams everyday.


----------



## lgmcben (Apr 30, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> They reduced the price
> SSO and SSO Chamber Edition = $999
> Symphony Complete = $1399


Anyone remember how much did the Symphony Complete cost before SSO Pro announcement?


----------



## Evans (Apr 30, 2021)

It's been a while since I've downloaded from Spitfire. What's typical download speed? It's pretty annoying to be getting 28 down right now from the Spitfire app when other apps and downloads are typically 100-140 (still well below my cap).


----------



## RogiervG (Apr 30, 2021)

lgmcben said:


> Anyone remember how much did the Symphony Complete cost before SSO Pro announcement??


SSO USD 1699 (50% discount should be 850, not 999)
SSO Complete USD 1999
Pricing on march 1st.


----------



## justthere (Apr 30, 2021)

Vik said:


> Thanks for your long post, @justthere. Since quite a few of us have invested in string libraries that, combined, cost a lot more than one wed probably have to pay for one that goes further in any of the existing ones, I guess there is a market for detailed libraries that takes all the important and sometimes expensive user requests into consideration: not only 3 or 4 dyn. layers, enough length variations, enough Ros and so on, including what you described.
> 
> With most string libraries, users need to buy five instruments/sections even if we only need a V1 with better quick runs or a double bass with long enough sustains. That fact maybe be a main enemy of future development of libraries that go further than the current ones (in all relevant areas) – because there's already limited number of users than can afford the most expensive libraries, and that improve much if they all stared to make more detailed instruments than we have today – if we'd have buy buy all sections or none.
> 
> I'm glad I didn't have to buy bass, drums, keyboards and a singer that needs autotune back when I bought my first guitar, even if these five often operate together.  I hope more string library makers will consider both more modular, detailed libraries and more modular buying options.


Completely agree about the modular thing. OT are making strides in that area, though who knows if they can make it work for them. And I haven't been moved to buy many individual things from them, after my frustration with Berlin Strings. Teldec is a nice room but...

So what would be great in the Spitfire arena is if we could buy aspects as needed. Rather than the version that's called "professional" and the one that professionals had been using all along but now somehow makes them hacks to use . I'd like it if AR wound up being very modular in the sense that you could buy a sketch version of each section or instrument, a "gets you through most stuff" one, an extended one with more dynamics/samples, and extended techniques in those three flavors too. Oh, yes, and since mic perspectives are important to many people, to buy those as add-on options would be great. And of course, this all depends on how it sounds and plays.


----------



## meradium (Apr 30, 2021)

I just upgraded all my Spitfire libraries and though I would only need to reload my VEP instances to get my Kontakt patches to the latest version automatically. Except, this does not seem to work that way. All my Kontakt patches are stuck on their old version unless I replace them one by one manually with a fresh instance from the Kontakt menu. Almost as if VEP has kept a copy of the old patch on its own and always sources that.

Is this normal behavior? Do I really have to go now through all my patches and upgrade them manually one-by-one???


----------



## justthere (Apr 30, 2021)

That’s what it does, yes.


----------



## prodigalson (May 1, 2021)

Ah, the great tragedy of the SSO is the curious case of the missing trombone solo legato. So bizarre. We have trombones a2 legato and even bass trombone legato.

Back when the trombones module of BML came out, well before SSB was even a twinkle in Paul Thomson's eye, there was some eye raising about this omission and I remember Paul scoffing a bit at the consternation and insisting there’d be an update with it. Alas, here we are with OCD composers around the world contemplating suicide lest they be forced to forever stare at their beautiful SSO templates all complete and uniform but with that one solitary Berlin Brass Trombone solo legato...


----------



## jbuhler (May 1, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> Ah, the great tragedy of the SSO is the curious case of the missing trombone solo legato. So bizarre. We have trombones a2 legato and even bass trombone legato.
> 
> Back when the trombones module of BML came out, well before SSB was even a twinkle in Paul Thomson's eye, there was some eye raising about this omission and I remember Paul scoffing a bit at the consternation and insisting there’d be an update with it. Alas, here we are with OCD composers around the world contemplate suicide lest they forever stare at their beautiful SSO templates all complete and uniform but with that one solitary Berlin Brass Trombone solo legato...


It’s weird, because there are jokes about trombone legato, and how it’s against the nature of the instrument. As an old trombone player, the quips aren’t exactly wrong... still, it’s one reason I invested in the JXL solo trombone. I also supplement SSB with the Ark a9 horns and the AROOF a4 trumpets.


----------



## justthere (May 1, 2021)

With respect to the hard work that goes into these things - that’s an issue that Spitfire has - maintenance and fixes - and it might be less of an issue if they weren’t repackaging and re-selling an older library with no new content per se (not counting other perspectives of the same performances) that has had things wrong with it for a long time. It feels - again, with respect because of the massive undertaking that any of this is - like maybe the intention was to do a fabulous library at the start (BML) based on the tech and sensibilities of the time, and then it was modified to be a slightly different product with the intent to improve it in some ways (legato engines etc.) - but the source was still the same, and the effort and expense of fixing some of those core issues made doing so a low priority due to the expanding success of the company with reduced feature/flexibility libraries like Albion that didn’t require the same precision or flexibility, alongside their hybrid symphonic texture instruments that did require a lot of programming. And now, years after the original sessions, how difficult would it be to go in and really fix things with some new recordings? Very. Especially when they have other large projects apparently in the pipeline. So they do some tweaks to what they have in SSO and a little value-adding to fund the next big thing. I get the juggling act, I think. I only hope that the Next Big Thing anticipates the kind of quibbles that composers would have and goes deeper to begin with - captures more than they usually would and is very meticulous in terms of consistency and many options. Which is difficult and expensive, but longtime users merit that kind of effort.

And, um - with respect, again - there is no excuse for no legato with solo trombone. Scoffing at it clearly hasn’t aged well, even if it had been acceptable at the time (it wasn’t, but things were just getting going over there - everyone has to figure these things out). It’s funny to read the manual for SSO and see it referred to as BML - but that’s the core issue here - it’s kind of like the Synchronized versions of VSL - a nice thought to be sure but it’s nothing really new, is it?


----------



## jbuhler (May 1, 2021)

justthere said:


> With respect to the hard work that goes into these things - that’s an issue that Spitfire has - maintenance and fixes - and it might be less of an issue if they weren’t repackaging and re-selling an older library with no new content per se (not counting other perspectives of the same performances) that has had things wrong with it for a long time. It feels - again, with respect because of the massive undertaking that any of this is - like maybe the intention was to do a fabulous library at the start (BML) based on the tech and sensibilities of the time, and then it was modified to be a slightly different product with the intent to improve it in some ways (legato engines etc.) - but the source was still the same, and the effort and expense of fixing some of those core issues made doing so a low priority due to the expanding success of the company with reduced feature/flexibility libraries like Albion that didn’t require the same precision or flexibility, alongside their hybrid symphonic texture instruments that did require a lot of programming. And now, years after the original sessions, how difficult would it be to go in and really fix things with some new recordings? Very. Especially when they have other large projects apparently in the pipeline. So they do some tweaks to what they have in SSO and a little value-adding to fund the next big thing. I get the juggling act, I think. I only hope that the Next Big Thing anticipates the kind of quibbles that composers would have and goes deeper to begin with - captures more than they usually would and is very meticulous in terms of consistency and many options. Which is difficult and expensive, but longtime users merit that kind of effort.
> 
> And, um - with respect, again - there is no excuse for no legato with solo trombone. Scoffing at it clearly hasn’t aged well, even if it had been acceptable at the time (it wasn’t, but things were just getting going over there - everyone has to figure these things out). It’s funny to read the manual for SSO and see it referred to as BML - but that’s the core issue here - it’s kind of like the Synchronized versions of VSL - a nice thought to be sure but it’s nothing really new, is it?


You are getting kind of petty here I have to say. SSO gets regular updates and fixes, more than most of my libraries from other vendors. Sure, SSO has issues. So does every other library I have. 

The latest update of SSO, the one they released just before the extra mics, is decent. A lot of lingering small issues have been fixed. It’s nice that the extra mics are available again to those who missed out. Was it a lot of fanfare for a rerelease? Probably. But SF didn’t really oversell it in the announcement video. They were pretty clear that they were just rereleasing the mics and pointing out some of the advantages. So I just don’t get the discontent. You don’t like it, you don’t buy it. You already have it, it’s long been clear what it is. You like other libraries better, fine, use those. 

As for the solo trombone legato, at this point it’s mostly a joke, like solo trombone legato. But seriously, they likely didn’t release it initially because the original session didn’t produce good results. And yes the whole of BML was ported to SSO before BML was completed and SSO still bears those scars. I have a strong suspicion that SF’s plan was to significantly update SSO and address those issues when they ported it to the new player, that they even had sessions recording new material, and for some reason those sessions had to be binned (Christian has mentioned big binned sessions on several occasions, though he’s never said they were SSO sessions) and that in turn led to the new AR series and the decision to maintain SSO in more or less its current state. But SSO in its current state remains a very good set of libraries, indeed among the very best available. It’s not a new library, but its scripting has been regularly updated to remain consistent with current workflows. I have many libraries that I can’t say the same about.


----------



## justthere (May 1, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> You are getting kind of petty here I have to say. SSO gets regular updates and fixes, more than most of my libraries from other vendors. Sure, SSO has issues. So does every other library I have.
> 
> The latest update of SSO, the one they released just before the extra mics, is decent. A lot of lingering small issues have been fixed. It’s nice that the extra mics are available again to those who missed out. Was it a lot of fanfare for a rerelease? Probably. But SF didn’t really oversell it in the announcement video. They were pretty clear that they were just rereleasing the mics and pointing out some of the advantages. So I just don’t get the discontent. You don’t like it, you don’t buy it. You already have it, it’s long been clear what it is. You like other libraries better, fine, use those.
> 
> As for the solo trombone legato, at this point it’s mostly a joke, like solo trombone legato. But seriously, they likely didn’t release it initially because the original session didn’t produce good results. And yes the whole of BML was ported to SSO before BML was completed and SSO still bears those scars. I have a strong suspicion that SF’s plan was to significantly update SSO and address those issues when they ported it to the new player, that they even had sessions recording new material, and for some reason those sessions had to be binned (Christian has mentioned big binned sessions on several occasions, though he’s never said they were SSO sessions) and that in turn led to the new AR series and the decision to maintain SSO in more or less its current state. But SSO in its current state remains a very good set of libraries, indeed among the very best available. It’s not a new library, but its scripting has been regularly updated to remain consistent with current workflows. I have many libraries that I can’t say the same about.


I’m glad you like these libraries.


----------



## lgmcben (May 1, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> You are getting kind of petty here I have to say. SSO gets regular updates and fixes, more than most of my libraries from other vendors. Sure, SSO has issues. So does every other library I have.
> 
> The latest update of SSO, the one they released just before the extra mics, is decent. A lot of lingering small issues have been fixed. It’s nice that the extra mics are available again to those who missed out. Was it a lot of fanfare for a rerelease? Probably. But SF didn’t really oversell it in the announcement video. They were pretty clear that they were just rereleasing the mics and pointing out some of the advantages. So I just don’t get the discontent. You don’t like it, you don’t buy it. You already have it, it’s long been clear what it is. You like other libraries better, fine, use those.
> 
> As for the solo trombone legato, at this point it’s mostly a joke, like solo trombone legato. But seriously, they likely didn’t release it initially because the original session didn’t produce good results. And yes the whole of BML was ported to SSO before BML was completed and SSO still bears those scars. I have a strong suspicion that SF’s plan was to significantly update SSO and address those issues when they ported it to the new player, that they even had sessions recording new material, and for some reason those sessions had to be binned (Christian has mentioned big binned sessions on several occasions, though he’s never said they were SSO sessions) and that in turn led to the new AR series and the decision to maintain SSO in more or less its current state. But SSO in its current state remains a very good set of libraries, indeed among the very best available. It’s not a new library, but its scripting has been regularly updated to remain consistent with current workflows. I have many libraries that I can’t say the same about.



I love the sound of AIR from what I heard. I still don't have any library recorded at AIR. I assume the $1399 (Symphony Complete) is a regular price from now on, not a "sale" price. That means it can go lower during spring sale and such. I'll be waiting for that, or when a bundle like Justin Hurwitz returns...

But I still don't understand all the fuss (50-100 pages vic threads). And it seems to happen every time Spitfire do anything.

You can say SSO gets update every now and then, etc. Well, that's great, really. Credits to Spitfire.

But just look at what some other devs are doing: Strezov, Performance Samples, Audiobro, you name it. Polyphonic legato, auto-divisi, ... and don't even get me started on Modern Scoring Strings.



Now take a neutral stance and compare to this:

*Spitfire adds back old mics that were removed many years ago*
= instant 30+ pages on vic...

one more recent example:

*Release a $449 library with NO legato. Its only "feature" is that it's recorded at Abbey Road*
= 105 pages and counting.



I will buy SSO at some point because I like the sound. But seriously, every damn time, what's all the fuss about?


----------



## yiph2 (May 1, 2021)

lgmcben said:


> I love the sound of AIR from what I heard. I still don't have any library recorded at AIR. I assume the $1399 (Symphony Complete) is a regular price from now on, not a "sale" price. That means it can go lower during spring sale and such. I'll be waiting for that, or when a bundle like Justin Hurwitz returns...


I really dont think thats the regular price, pretty sure it’s the sale price. Spitfire said it was 50% off until May 30th and the Hurwitz sale was 60%. $898 for 60% and $999 for 50% sounds reasonable. They probably forgot to put the orange text


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (May 1, 2021)

In sample land, there's usually not price cuts. Instead, sales just happen more and more often.


----------



## Alex Fraser (May 2, 2021)

lgmcben said:


> I love the sound of AIR from what I heard. I still don't have any library recorded at AIR. I assume the $1399 (Symphony Complete) is a regular price from now on, not a "sale" price. That means it can go lower during spring sale and such. I'll be waiting for that, or when a bundle like Justin Hurwitz returns...
> 
> But I still don't understand all the fuss (50-100 pages vic threads). And it seems to happen every time Spitfire do anything.
> 
> ...


Probably because SF has (one of the) largest userbase of users/customers and therefore create more interest? Not a suggestion that they’re the best, but simply a brute force numbers thing.


----------



## RogiervG (May 2, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Probably because SF has (one of the) largest userbase of users/customers and therefore create more interest? Not a suggestion that they’re the best, but simply a brute force numbers thing.


And the way of doing marketing. They hype things in a certain manner, other don't.


----------



## lgmcben (May 2, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> They probably forgot to put the orange text


I hope it's not a mistake.  Let's see what will happen at Spring sale. (there's gonna be a spring sale, right?)

Edit: I mean, look at this. (image taken from cart)


----------



## RogiervG (May 2, 2021)

lgmcben said:


> I hope it's not a mistake.  Let's see what will happen at Spring sale. (there's gonna be a spring sale, right?)


this sale is till end of may. The spring sale is often the last-ish week of may.. ending early june. It would be very unwise for spitfire, if they set a hard end date for this sale, to then later move the final day further back because of a new sale. It would bring distrust to the table for future sale dates. 
"oh i can wait longer, because their end dates are not set in stone anymore.. "


----------



## dzilizzi (May 2, 2021)

Generally, the sales are 40% off max of an individual library and 30% off the bundles. The Horowitz SSO deal was a one off. I wouldn't expect that deal again any time soon. Same with this current sale. I won't say never, just that you may wait a while for another sale like this.


----------



## Mike Fox (May 2, 2021)

I just wish they’d fix the damn tuning issues with the marcato ensemble patch in SSS. It’s so terrible I won’t even use it, or I at least have to layer it with another string lib to mask it.

I honestly don’t understand how they could have recorded that and said, “That sounds great! We’ll use that take for the final product!”.


----------



## yiph2 (May 2, 2021)

lgmcben said:


> I hope it's not a mistake.  Let's see what will happen at Spring sale. (there's gonna be a spring sale, right?)
> 
> Edit: I mean, look at this. (image taken from cart)


799+699+599+399+349=2845
2845/2=1422.5
So 50% off already


----------



## VSriHarsha (May 2, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Generally, the sales are 40% off max of an individual library and 30% off the bundles. The Horowitz SSO deal was a one off. I wouldn't expect that deal again any time soon. Same with this current sale. I won't say never, just that you may wait a while for another sale like this.


They started their sale already?


----------



## VSriHarsha (May 2, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Generally, the sales are 40% off max of an individual library and 30% off the bundles. The Horowitz SSO deal was a one off. I wouldn't expect that deal again any time soon. Same with this current sale. I won't say never, just that you may wait a while for another sale like this.


They’re doing their sale, already?


----------



## dzilizzi (May 2, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> They started their sale already?


No, just saying the standard lowest sales price. The spring sale, other than one or two selected libraries, is usually not as good as the Christmas sale, from what I remember.


----------



## yiph2 (May 2, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> No, just saying the standard lowest sales price. The spring sale, other than one or two selected libraries, is usually not as good as the Christmas sale, from what I remember.


Spring sale and Christmas sale is 40% IIRC, summer sale is not as good at 30%


----------



## dzilizzi (May 3, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> Spring sale and Christmas sale is 40% IIRC, summer sale is not as good at 30%


Truthfully, when I started looking at orchestral samples about 5 or 6 years ago, they didn't have as many sales and the Christmas was limited to 5 items only. It was called a Wishlist sale for a reason. If it wasn't on your wishlist, you didn't get a code for it. So they could change it up at any time. For me, I just plan on Christmas for the 40% because I know it will happen and when. Then anything else is a happy surprise..... that I hopefully have money for.


----------



## RogiervG (May 3, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Truthfully, when I started looking at orchestral samples about 5 or 6 years ago, they didn't have as many sales and the Christmas was limited to 5 items only. It was called a Wishlist sale for a reason. If it wasn't on your wishlist, you didn't get a code for it. So they could change it up at any time. For me, I just plan on Christmas for the 40% because I know it will happen and when. Then anything else is a happy surprise..... that I hopefully have money for.


for that reason i have all items in the wishlist  You never know when it becomes handy


----------



## curtisschweitzer (May 3, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> You are getting kind of petty here I have to say. SSO gets regular updates and fixes, more than most of my libraries from other vendors. Sure, SSO has issues. So does every other library I have.
> 
> The latest update of SSO, the one they released just before the extra mics, is decent. A lot of lingering small issues have been fixed. It’s nice that the extra mics are available again to those who missed out. Was it a lot of fanfare for a rerelease? Probably. But SF didn’t really oversell it in the announcement video. They were pretty clear that they were just rereleasing the mics and pointing out some of the advantages. So I just don’t get the discontent. You don’t like it, you don’t buy it. You already have it, it’s long been clear what it is. You like other libraries better, fine, use those.


I see the "Spitfire never updates their products" myth around VIC quite a bit, usually in the form of "they never fix their old libraries they just release new ones". My personal favorite example is BBCSO, which has had almost 20 updates since release (including new content, reworked instruments, etc). At this point, it would be nice to _not_ see this myth repeated-- it is growing somewhat tiresome.


----------



## RogiervG (May 3, 2021)

curtisschweitzer said:


> I see the "Spitfire never updates their products" myth around VIC quite a bit, usually in the form of "they never fix their old libraries they just release new ones". My personal favorite example is BBCSO, which has had almost 20 updates since release (including new content, reworked instruments, etc). At this point, it would be nice to _not_ see this myth repeated-- it is growing somewhat tiresome.


perhaps they find the updates not worthy enough (too minor improvements)? maybe they want the older libs to be top notch in every aspect by now? (i heard rumors about promised fixes, that never came in the SSO range)

I don't know.. i see updates too.. and let's be honest, many developers have issues in their libs, some are more on top of fixes and changes than others. But all major libs get updates.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (May 3, 2021)

I've been on the fence regarding the SSO Pro upgrade. $450 for just SSO Pro and $600 for SSO Pro and Chamber Strings Pro is a bit much, especially how it is currently laid out (with CTAO, the alt mics, and the JJ mixes all being separate patches), which would make the workflow a bit clunky IMO.

I really do wish that the 'base' SSO included the outriggers, though. Even the Albions have CTAO mic options, so having only CTA for SSO is a bit of a letdown. Although if it did have the outriggers, I doubt I even would be considering the Pro upgrades based on the aforementioned workflow issues from the separate patches for different mic sets. So I guess Spitfire made the right choice there from a business perspective.

There's still a lot of time left for the sale, so depending on other user reviews and demos that come out in the next couple of weeks, I might end up getting it. At the moment, I think it would be a better idea to save that money for the upcoming AR1 expansions or the AR modular library. I've been seriously impressed with AR1, and am definitely excited for the future AR libraries. SSO Pro, even though I think the extra mics sound great and would be useful, just doesn't excite me as much.

On a side note, during the SSO Pro announcement livestream, I asked about the possibility of a version of Masse for owners of SSO Chamber Edition. The 'cool strings' patches in Masse are great, and I'd love to see how they would sound using the Chamber Strings samples instead of Symphonic Strings. And it would be nice for people who chose SSO Chamber Edition over the 'standard' SSO to get their own version of Masse. It shouldn't be a huge undertaking to do this, since only the strings patches and the tutti patches would need to be remade, not the brass and winds patches. Christian did respond saying this was a good idea, so my fingers are crossed!


----------



## VSriHarsha (May 3, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> No, just saying the standard lowest sales price. The spring sale, other than one or two selected libraries, is usually not as good as the Christmas sale, from what I remember.


Oh ok thanks @dzilizzi


----------



## lgmcben (May 3, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> I've been on the fence regarding the SSO Pro upgrade. $450 for just SSO Pro and $600 for SSO Pro and Chamber Strings Pro is a bit much, especially how it is currently laid out (with CTAO, the alt mics, and the JJ mixes all being separate patches), which would make the workflow a bit clunky IMO.
> 
> I really do wish that the 'base' SSO included the outriggers, though. Even the Albions have CTAO mic options, so having only CTA for SSO is a bit of a letdown. Although if it did have the outriggers, I doubt I even would be considering the Pro upgrades based on the aforementioned workflow issues from the separate patches for different mic sets. So I guess Spitfire made the right choice there from a business perspective.
> 
> ...


I wish I can just buy Masse. It looks super fun.


----------



## dzilizzi (May 4, 2021)

lgmcben said:


> I wish I can just buy Masse. It looks super fun.


I tried that. When I first was getting into orchestral libraries. I was very sad when I found that, though it had a price assigned to it, you could only get it if you owned SSO and then it was free. 

Now that I have it? I don't think I have used it once.


----------



## VSriHarsha (May 4, 2021)

Thanks @dzilizzi !

I wonder why they won’t sell it separately. You know what? It actually is a way more different, rather unique library of Spitfire & maybe that’s why they made it free with their Symphonic collection. And yes, of course people get the point. It is special!


----------



## dzilizzi (May 4, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Thanks @dzilizzi !
> 
> I wonder why they won’t sell it separately. You know what? It actually is a way more different, rather unique library of Spitfire & maybe that’s why they made it free with their Symphonic collection. And yes, of course people get the point. It is special!


All the samples used for Masse come from SSO. It is basically ensemble patches for the full orchestra. So kind of a reward for buying SSO.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (May 4, 2021)

Nice interview about SSO in real-world use. https://composer.spitfireaudio.com/en/articles/the-music-of-the-queens-gambit

_"We were lucky to get to record with the Budapest Art Orchestra the day after COVID restrictions for live players had been lifted in Hungary. But for a while there, we were close to having a completely library based soundtrack. We relied heavily on Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds, Brass, and Strings to hold the larger cues together, whilst leaning on the British Drama Toolkit for the more intimate moments. This basic symphonic palate was coloured throughout by another common string effect I loved - the String Swells from Ólafur Arnalds' Chamber Evolutions. Many of the cues that addressed Beth playing chess on the ceiling used the fantastic brass and strings effect sounds the Kepler Orchestra provides. In the end. the final recordings ended up being a hybrid from the aforementioned libraries and the real orchestra."_

I think it worked out for them.


----------



## VSriHarsha (May 4, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> All the samples used for Masse come from SSO. It is basically ensemble patches for the full orchestra. So kind of a reward for buying SSO.


Wow! I didn’t know that. Thanks @dzilizzi !

Maybe that’s why they named it Masse?


----------



## VSriHarsha (May 4, 2021)

Thanks @dzilizzi !


----------



## muziksculp (May 6, 2021)

This should be exciting, and useful to watch :


----------



## muziksculp (May 6, 2021)

This was Wonderful Video of Carlos Rafael Rivera. ^^^ 

A delight to watch, and learn his way of thinking, and ideas of orchestration, to add emotion, and climaxes to various moments of the series.


----------



## olvra (May 6, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> This should be exciting, and useful to watch :



mono :(


----------



## muziksculp (May 6, 2021)

olvra said:


> mono :(


 Sorry, what do you mean by 'mono' ?


----------



## RogiervG (May 6, 2021)

it seems the sound was not coming directly from the audio interface into the video.. 
It sounded like it was playing over the speakers and that was recorded with his mic in front of him. (nassal sound)

But it was a nice video nevertheless..


----------



## muziksculp (May 6, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> it seems the sound was not coming directly from the audio interface into the video..
> It sounded like it was playing over the speakers and that was recorded with his mic in front of him. (nassal sound)
> 
> But it was a nice video nevertheless..


Oh.. I see, but that's not a big deal for me, it was about his explanation, and showing how he goes about scoring some of the scenes. You can listen to the soundtrack if you want to appreciate it in stereo, and more hi-fi than YouTube.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (May 6, 2021)

Carlos is a really generous person and willing to share his process and methods. Attended a call with him a while back and he was just as excited to speak with us as we were with him. Definitely a big Spitfire user and fan - funnily didn't bring up anything about "sloppy" shorts or "phasey" legato.  Guess "issues" matter less and less if you have more and more talent.


----------



## RogiervG (May 6, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Carlos is a really generous person and willing to share his process and methods. Attended a call with him a while back and he was just as excited to speak with us as we were with him. Definitely a big Spitfire user and fan - funnily didn't bring up anything about "sloppy" shorts or "phasey" legato.  Guess "issues" matter less and less if you have more and more talent.


I guess the "sloppy, phasey" things, are not as bad as people make it up to be, especially here on vi-c (purists we are)


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (May 6, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> I guess the "sloppy, phasey" things, are not as bad as people make it up to be, especially here on vi-c (purists we are)


They usually never are...despite what Vi-C "purists" would say (though I'd use the term "charlatans" instead in certain cases).


----------



## Evans (May 7, 2021)

Funny, right? Professionals such as Guy Michelmore have considered SCS a go-to for many years, yet apparently it's quite broken.

I think this is the sale during which I finally pick up SCS. I'm trying to wait until the end of the sale, in case I'd rather focus my monthly budget on Sonokinetic Strings or who knows what.

But heck, I think OT Tallinn was announced and released during the Sonokinetic Strings waiting time, so there's no telling what'll pop up and compete for dollars.

Or... I could just buy SCS now, and use my free weekend to get it set up.


----------



## John R Wilson (May 7, 2021)

Evans said:


> Funny, right? Professionals such as Guy Michelmore have considered SCS a go-to for many years, yet apparently it's quite broken.
> 
> I think this is the sale during which I finally pick up SCS. I'm trying to wait until the end of the sale, in case I'd rather focus my monthly budget on Sonokinetic Strings or who knows what.
> 
> ...


SCS is a very good string library, I would not say it's broken! Their is some intonation/tuning issues but it's not broken. The legatos are pretty good and they do fast runs really well. It is quite wet but still has quite good clarity in the close and tree mics so it works well when layering it with other string libraries such as BBCSO strings or for divisi lines.


----------



## jbuhler (May 7, 2021)

John R Wilson said:


> SCS is a very good string library, I would not say it's broken! Their is some intonation/tuning issues but it's not broken. The legatos are pretty good and they do fast runs really well. It is quite wet but still has quite good clarity in the close and tree mics so it works well when layering it with other string libraries such as BBCSO strings or for divisi lines.


Yes, the tuning issues are minor, generally not an issue in context, and the library has lots of built-in redundancies, so if you encounter an issue there's almost always an alternative available in the library. The legatos are usually transparent, which I appreciate, and there are lots of them. It plays well with others and you can also layer it with itself (e.g., normal and con sord).


----------



## justthere (May 8, 2021)

Wow. I sure hope these “charlatans” have thick skins. I’d have thought the self-esteem gained from taking home eighteen Oscars would elevate one above being poked by the opinions of strangers on the internet.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (May 8, 2021)

justthere said:


> Wow. I sure hope these “charlatans” have thick skins. I’d have thought the self-esteem gained from taking home eighteen Oscars would elevate one above being poked by the opinions of strangers on the internet.


I doubt they do - they usually have to comment on being called out.


----------



## justthere (May 8, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I doubt they do - they usually have to comment on being called out.


So can we be clear about that? Are you calling me one, or is it just people you disagree with who have called things “phasey” and sloppy? Or neither of those?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (May 8, 2021)

justthere said:


> So can we be clear about that? Are you calling me one, or is it just people you disagree with who have called things “phasey” and sloppy? Or neither of those?


We can be clear that you referenced me first - clear on that? I don’t know who you are and I don’t care. Maybe you’re a purist. Maybe you’re just a charlatan. All I know is I care more about Carlos Rafael Rivera’s opinion about SSO and what he can do with it than I care about nearly all opinions here. More to learn from somebody actually using the libraries in relevant situations than yet another comment from some self-anointed armchair expert claiming a library has some critical flaw or legato issue or any other of the myriad of Vi-C specific problems that commonly come up.


----------



## justthere (May 9, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> We can be clear that you referenced me first - clear on that? I don’t know who you are and I don’t care.


(Edit: Wow, I’ve written quite a long response. Skip it if you like - won’t make any difference anyway.)

If you were referring to me obliquely, then I wouldn’t be first. But let’s let that go - of course you don’t have to own that if you don’t want to. Maybe you were also referring to me when you said people who don’t think mic positions are important are... something, I can’t recall what - but I didn’t say that and neither did anyone else. So maybe that doesn’t count either.

It’s fine with me if you don’t care what I think - though you did take the time to respond. Such is the siren call of the internet. But I think you may have confused the fact that I’m not shy about stating an opinion with thinking of myself as above anyone else. You have offered no factual rebuttal to anything I’ve said - only a misreading of it, perhaps - but you are a self-anointed expert, are you not? And you refer to me as an “armchair” expert also, as if I don’t use the gear professionally (I do. Composing is my full-time job) - that’s a bit presumptuous. And I’m not sure what you would mean by relevant situations - if doing heavy full-orchestra virtual instrument score for animation on a deadline isn’t relevant to you, or arranging strings and voices for various projects isn’t relevant, all right. That’s what I use the gear for. Maybe you have reasons why that stuff - which is what I spend most of my time doing - isn’t relevant to you - that’s all right with me - but you sure do like to make a lot of personal attacks and assumptions. From some of your other posts elsewhere I gather that you seem to like to (anonymously) tell people that they are wrong about things. We all have hobbies, I guess.

I also post anonymously. I don’t think I attacked anyone personally at all in any of my posts (I was sincerely and genuinely surprised that someone with your reported cred would respond as you did); but I did criticize something that some folks here like. Composers have a lot invested in sounding good, and feeling good about what tools they use, and we are all as susceptible to insecurity about that as anyone - so if anyone takes criticism of something they like to be a personal attack, I want to assure them that that’s not what I intend - to the contrary, as I have stated, I would like the tools available to be as good as they can be. But if they are in some way injured by my commentary, I send them my best wishes for a rapid recovery - and suggest they block me at their earliest opportunity. Life is too short.

There hasn’t been too much apples-to-apples factual rebuttal to what I said, which is fine. Lots of us are busy. And some don’t find many or any issues with the products or they don’t have an impact on their processes, which is absolutely fine. They aren’t wrong. But there’s nothing wrong with wanting something to be different than it is - and nothing wrong with criticism that’s factual, and points out when it’s a guess or an opinion. I’m fairly certain I didn’t say that nobody could make any use of any of their products - I pointed out what I didn’t like about them. Not sure what’s false or misleading or fake about any of that.

Also: I’m very happy to hear that any composer has work anywhere using anything, especially when things are well thought of, as the score cited above is. I hadn’t listened to it because I didn’t watch the show. I’ll be interested to watch the videos from the composer (a fellow who’s very generous with his time and helpful to other composers) and hear where he used what products and how they sound up next to the live orchestra, and in what instances he used samples instead of live players, and why - because I have nothing invested in people using things or not, especially when they are used successfully. Any method of using something well is a win for everyone.

I will say, though, that if we are talking about the samples being used for footballs or simple undynamic performances, it doesn’t do anything for anyone’s point, mine included. Their libraries are very nicely recorded. Horses for courses. But if I want something specific, that should be ok with everyone - everyone wants different things. I personally have not said things were “broken” - I think one places oneself in an untenable position by having to defend either that position or its contrary one - but flawed? Yes, absolutely. I also said, to paraphrase, remember _when_ it was made. I also said that BBC, as it is, favored mic positions over articulations - and it did. And that the actual recordings that are distinct - articulations, dynamic levels and so on - are crammed into a relatively small amount of space. And they are. And that mic positions don’t substitute for articulations - and they don’t, as they are very different things. I didn’t say anyone should throw anything out or that because of anything I said, their work was bad or useless or even that they should feel like I do about it or else they are wrong - nothing like that.

Who loses if someone criticizes a library, truly? The company is still selling tons of old things, developing new ones - they surely aren’t upset at what a single person says about these things. Or maybe they are - I have no way of knowing. Likely they don’t care, because the internet is where people go to complain. But maybe they see these things, and maybe these comments add to their existing impetus to make the best things they can. Their hard work is undeniable.

Who loses when they anonymously attack folks they don’t know on the internet? Well, I think that would be you, 18, no matter who it is you are disparaging.

Now maybe you felt attacked when I said I thought someone with 18 Oscars would be above attacking another anonymous critic (though you are also an anonymous critic). It would stand to reason, I was thinking, though, that someone at that amazing level of success would have nothing to prove. So of those 18, how many were for best original score? (Any amount would be more than I have.) Were the others for adaptations or original song or what? I would absolutely be proud of that if I’d won that many awards. Without a doubt. It would also incline me, I think, to limit my concern over someone criticizing some of my favorite sound libraries. Let them do it - I mean, how would that even make it onto my radar? I personally only have an Emmy and a few Golden Reels - not for composing, even, and the Grammy I’m attached to as an arranger has a band name on it of which I’m not a member - but even that comparative pittance of recognition means I’m not concerned enough to get too mad at anonymous critics, let alone critics of things I didn’t even create. What’s the point of those award things to us if not to remind us of where we’ve been and the letters of “who cares” it allows us to buy - and also the perspective of what changed from the day before we get one to the day after? Meaning - not much, really.


----------



## easyrider (May 9, 2021)

Can someone explain the delay for pro and why people got the mics first time around ?


----------



## gst98 (May 9, 2021)

curtisschweitzer said:


> I see the "Spitfire never updates their products" myth around VIC quite a bit, usually in the form of "they never fix their old libraries they just release new ones". My personal favorite example is BBCSO, which has had almost 20 updates since release (including new content, reworked instruments, etc). At this point, it would be nice to _not_ see this myth repeated-- it is growing somewhat tiresome.


How is it a myth? it has literally taken them a decade to fix basic mistakes - and they've still left plenty of them in. I don't see how anyone can defend a decade of brass patches with the notes assigned to the wrong keys. Maybe it's just a coincidence they came a week before releasing Pro versions.

You named one example in recent history where they have paid attention and kept updating it. It's great, I hope SF continue this pattern. The state it arrived in was very poor and needed many of those updates though, considering the majority are fixing bugs with the player. 

However, if you think people with valid criticism posting online is tiresome, imagine how you'd feel if you'd spend thousands on SSO and had to wait ~10 years to get all the mic positions you originally bought with the bugs taken out!


----------



## Alex Fraser (May 9, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Can someone explain the delay for pro and why people got the mics first time around ?


The extra mics were available for a limited time only.

We _think _that Spitfire's intention was to re-package the SSO product into the new player (along with the extra mics) but for (reasons) that hasn't happened. Instead, they've opted to give the existing Kontakt libraries a wipe down and bug fix - whilst adding back the mics.

You'd have to ask SF for more info. Apparently more detail was given on release day but I didn't catch it. Still great libraries, whatever the player.


----------



## AudioLoco (May 9, 2021)

constaneum said:


> i just bought it few mins ago. i gonna start downloading. gonna take me days to download that 140+ GB materials. i need to clear off some spaces. I think i'll delete MASSE which i found it quite useless. For SSS core, i normally prefer using Close + Tree (-6db) which is good enough but still didn't manage to get that wide sound which i like from the Outriggers mic. but i wonder what's the point of Outriggers for woodwinds ? does it help when woods are more towards the centre ? hm...


Masse IS generally kind of useless, I have to agree ... but the shorts in it aren't bad at all and actually really expressive I found...


----------



## AllanH (May 9, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Can someone explain the delay for pro and why people got the mics first time around ?


In my case, I have Mural (now the symphonic strings) and that was sold with all the microphones and mixes. So when Spitfire repacked the products as the symphonic series, they also chose to break the symphonic products into separate "core" and "pro" even though they could just as well have keep it all together. For a short time they offered the "pro" microphones as an add-on, but that's quite a while ago.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (May 9, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Still great libraries, whatever the player.


This got me wondering--if they had ported SSO to Spitfire Player, would there be any real advantages for the user?


----------



## Alex Fraser (May 9, 2021)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> This got me wondering--if they had ported SSO to Spitfire Player, would there be any real advantages for the user?


Easier access to all the mics would be the obvious one. More interesting would be what else SF would do with the SSO samples to get a ROI on the dev effort.

I think though that unless NI do something nuts like lock the player into a sub, it’s Kontakt for the foreseeable for the SSO.


----------



## Toecutter (May 9, 2021)

curtisschweitzer said:


> BBCSO, which has had almost 20 updates since release (including new content, reworked instruments, etc).


Not enough sorry... @Spitfire Team you slackers!!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (May 9, 2021)

justthere said:


> (Edit: Wow, I’ve written quite a long response. Skip it if you like - won’t make any difference anyway.)
> 
> If you were referring to me obliquely, then I wouldn’t be first. But let’s let that go - of course you don’t have to own that if you don’t want to. Maybe you were also referring to me when you said people who don’t think mic positions are important are... something, I can’t recall what - but I didn’t say that and neither did anyone else. So maybe that doesn’t count either.
> 
> ...


Lol I didn’t read 90% of this drivel but 1) you have too much of a sense of self-importance if you think I was specifically referring to you (or only you) in any of my comments. Go back and read what I wrote and let me know where I explicitly referenced you and 2) clearly you don’t understand sarcasm if you keep referencing my 18 Oscars 😂

Either way, done with our little back and forth. You keep doing you and I’ll focus on using SSO, just like Carlos.


----------



## CT (May 9, 2021)

justthere said:


> Who loses if someone criticizes a library, truly?


As someone who falls into the trap of being too impassioned on here at times, let me gently suggest that this kind of screed is a total waste of time, no matter how vital it feels that you vigorously say your piece. 

That said, about this specific quote: I actually think the person doing the criticizing loses, potentially. I don't have any concern for whether or not someone "likes" something I've invested time and money into, but whenever I see a complaint that strikes me as missing the forest for the trees, that's what I feel like might be worth addressing. I really can't tell you how often on here I see people lamenting things that are either avoidable or altogether fictional. I don't have many libraries at all, so if I notice this stuff in the small window of expertise I have, imagine how much misinformation and general chronic user error must be rampant on this forum. If someone can get more out of something they've spent lots of money on, I think it's just fine to make the attempt to point that out. Musicians helping musicians and all that. And maybe, just maybe... the critics themselves could take more of a breath, and a closer look, before filing their critiques. 

This is not to say that any of your complaints specifically are rooted in some kind of misunderstanding, necessarily, it's just why I think sometimes "criticism" can actually be harmful and merit some pushback.


----------



## justthere (May 9, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Lol I didn’t read 90% of this drivel but 1) you have too much of a sense of self-importance if you think I was specifically referring to you (or only you) in any of my comments. Go back and read what I wrote and let me know where I explicitly referenced you and 2) clearly you don’t understand sarcasm if you keep referencing my 18 Oscars 😂
> 
> Either way, done with our little back and forth. You keep doing you and I’ll focus on using SSO, just like Carlos.


Ok. I have learned some things. One, you don’t back your words up with anything, and two, you shy away from standing behind them, and three, looks like you are one of them charlatans I keep hearing about. Enjoy your journey.


----------



## jazzman7 (May 9, 2021)

I learn things from some of the minutiae arguments on here, but then folks get emotional and it all starts to unravel. Of course, that can be entertaining too...for a while.

Carlos Loves SSO. AKD gets a great tone from Layering CS and CSS. Now that I have many VI's to choose from, I find Layering to be the magic sauce. The sounds I get from Throwing Sunset on top of AROOF or the unexpected Sympatico I'm hearing between PS and 8Dio Etc Etc. Fantastic!

Find a few VI's you like with the Arts you want and have fun. Same mountain, lot's of angles to climb it


----------



## Evans (May 9, 2021)

Virtual instruments. Anyone wanna talk about those? 

I finally picked up SCS. Good stuff. Yep.


----------



## justthere (May 9, 2021)

Mike T said:


> As someone who falls into the trap of being too impassioned on here at times, let me gently suggest that this kind of screed is a total waste of time, no matter how vital it feels that you vigorously say your piece.


Yes. I know it was long. I said so, even:

“Wow, I’ve written quite a long response. Skip it if you like - won’t make any difference anyway.”

And even though I’m attempting to be brief in my response, it’s perhaps going to go long for some folks’ taste. I encourage those folks again most earnestly to scroll past. 

You write in a civil manner with the best of intentions, and I appreciate that. To attempt to be brief (a few posts too late, clearly) - I don’t think I lose for criticizing someone’s sacred cow. I see that many here are big fans of the libraries in question and invested in the libraries being awesome. I knew it would not be popular to criticize them. I’d guessed that what I would get in response would be more ad hominem than fact, or that some would be essentially “no it isn’t”. That’s all par for the course. When I post it’s not taking away from composing or family or anything, and someone might find it useful, though you may not. Someone rightly said that a priority of mine is realism in performance, and surely others here care about that in the way I do - even if they deliver scores instead of master recordings; because stuff that sounds great and is responsive is way more fun to work with
My efforts are for myself and that person or persons. Maybe don’t feel like you have to restrict that.

What I’m concerned about may not be seen as of common concern to all users, but I think it is. And it’s a more nuanced issue, I think, than fits on a bumper sticker or in two lines of a meme or something. Hence length. It’s not that I want to - it’s that it takes time to detail it. Maybe I’m bad at being succinct. I will own that. But I’ve done this work for a long time and have given it lots of thought - that’s not worth more than anyone else’s experience, unless they think it is. 

If I accepted your forest-for-the-trees characterization, then the trees would be “this could be better, clearly” and the forest would be someone else saying “don’t use mean words about my thing I like.” I’m not here or anywhere to placate ardent fans of anything - I feel like that would be kind of condescending. But that will do for now. As I said, your civility was greatly appreciated.


----------



## justthere (May 9, 2021)

jazzman7 said:


> jazzman7 said:
> 
> 
> > I learn things from some of the minutiae arguments on here, but then folks get emotional and it all starts to unravel. Of course, that can be entertaining too...for a while.
> ...


----------



## CT (May 9, 2021)

justthere said:


> Yes. I know it was long. I said so, even:
> 
> “Wow, I’ve written quite a long response. Skip it if you like - won’t make any difference anyway.”
> 
> ...


I'm afraid you've lost me with this talk of "losing" for criticizing "sacred cows" and what you apparently see as an attempt on my part to restrict your "efforts," and I think I've lost you as well, as this seems to mischaracterize what I said in several different ways.

I also don't find your concerns to be so inscrutably nuanced as to necessitate any great length of explanations, nor indeed to be of much use regarding any library that is as fundamentally different in its philosophy than what you're after as SSO is, though it is of course your prerogative to wish for whatever you like with as few or many words as you desire. I don't expect SSO brass to play like, say, Sample Modeling brass, and I don't expect Sample Modeling brass to sound anywhere near as musically engaging and human as SSO brass. Again, it is your prerogative to differ in your expectations, though I'm not sure to what end, as it amounts to expecting a library to suddenly be entirely different in its design and methodology.

Best of luck with whatever you use and whatever you use it for.


----------



## justthere (May 9, 2021)

Mike T said:


> I'm afraid you've lost me with this talk of "losing" for criticizing "sacred cows" and what you apparently see as an attempt on my part to restrict your "efforts," and I think I've lost you as well, as this seems to mischaracterize what I said in several different ways.
> 
> I also don't find your concerns to be so inscrutably nuanced as to necessitate any great length of explanations, nor indeed to be of much use regarding any library that is as fundamentally different in its philosophy than what you're after as SSO is, though it is of course your prerogative to wish for whatever you like with as few or many words as you desire. I don't expect SSO brass to play like, say, Sample Modeling brass, and I don't expect Sample Modeling brass to sound anywhere near as musically engaging and human as SSO brass. Again, it is your prerogative to differ in your expectations, though I'm not sure to what end, as it amounts to expecting a library to suddenly be entirely different in its design and methodology.


I didn't mean to be oblique - my apologies. I disagree that criticism that's based in fact is equivalent to complaints by users with unrealistic expectations from the technology. If I misinterpreted what you wrote about forest/trees and the critic losing as being directed at what I wrote, and instead it's generally about what some people get up to here, my apologies for that as well. Just read like you were trying to dissuade me. Not like I feel censored or anything.

I like the SM / SSB comparison being brought up. I don't expect them to behave in the same way at all, and I would never say something like "SSB is failing at being SM". It's not, of course. I *do* have hopes that the field of virtual orchestral synthesis will continue to evolve. And in the realm of traditional sample-playback, I'd like some further developments. I feel like we'd all benefit.

Best of luck to you also in your endeavors. May you never be confounded by the tools you use.


----------



## jazzman7 (May 9, 2021)

O yes. Def easy to turn a Chamber Orch into a Symphonic legion. Harder the other way around. I like the different colors available with Diff VI's but it's so easy to make up for my lack of writing chops by slathering on the cream. For instance, me trying to make PS sound like the demos has been a work in progress...But it's moving in the right direction. Other than the occasional obvious problem, my issues with a lot of VI's have been more to do with my lack of superpowers than anything else! 

As to the issue at hand, SSO sounds great but I've gone the AROOF direction and Multiple other VI's for Arts, Effects, and detail. For me, that's plenty for the time being


----------



## markleake (May 9, 2021)

justthere said:


> Yes. I know it was long. I said so, even:
> 
> “Wow, I’ve written quite a long response. Skip it if you like - won’t make any difference anyway.”
> 
> ...


Hey @justthere. I think most people here are genuinely interested in learning both the pros & cons of the different libraries, and to improve their use of the libs. You'll get a few fans of certain libraries/vendors who are a little too invested maybe (and who may post a lot so they appear over-represented here), but that's human nature.

The trick is learning *who's opinion you find useful*, and take the rest on the chin.

So no, please don't hold back from considered criticism of the libraries... you don't need us to tell you it's OK to disagree. That's the point of the forum and these threads.

I think the harder part for me personally reading your posts is to understand what your criticisms are.

Are you able to summarize briefly how you find using SSO, maybe in dot point form to make it more succinct? When would/wouldn't you use these libraries? Are the extra mics useful, etc.?


----------



## OleJoergensen (May 14, 2021)

Can anyone share (maybe again) how many GB space Spitfire symphonic Strings uses on the drive?


----------



## Henu (May 14, 2021)

My install (Pro) says 236 GB.


----------



## OleJoergensen (May 14, 2021)

Henu said:


> My install (Pro) says 236 GB.


Thank you Henu.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (May 14, 2021)

102 GB for the standard Symphonic Strings.


----------



## dcoscina (May 14, 2021)

Does the professional brass have short mutes or just longs?


----------



## mdjohnson (May 14, 2021)

I have SSS and SCS, but can likely only afford one upgrade this year. I’m not sure which product would benefit more from it. Any recommendations?


----------



## CT (May 14, 2021)

SCS being a small ensemble will probably gain less from the outriggers than SSS, where those mics are actually picking up more players from the back of the 1st violins and cello sections. The other mics seem about equal in usefulness between the two.


----------



## lgmcben (May 16, 2021)

Is the recording quality of SSO(almost 10 years old) inferior to today's library(eg. ARO) in any way?


----------



## CT (May 16, 2021)

I don't think "inferior" would be the right word. Well-recorded samples don't age and SSO was well-recorded, provided you like the Neve/tape signal path. Abbey Road libraries done by Simon Rhodes are, I think, on a higher level than what I've heard from any other orchestral samples thus far, but that doesn't suddenly make SSO or other good, older stuff bad.


----------



## olvra (May 22, 2021)

NoamL said:


> - The (St)ereo Tree



I've always felt "St" mics a bit center-hollowed and now you talking about "Tree" made me google... it's actually a "Pair":


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Jun 1, 2021)

It looks like the sale on SSO bundles is continuing indefinitely. In the 2021 Spring Sale thread, it was mentioned that the 50% off for all of the SSO bundles (SSO, SSO Complete, SSO Chamber Strings Edition, SSO Professional, SSO Complete Professional, and SSO Chamber Strings Edition Professional) would be continuing past the originally-scheduled end date of May 30th.

And it looks to be the case. This is how the page looked earlier:






This is what shows up now:






The part announcing 40% off for individual libraries is gone, leaving only the part with up to 50% off of SSO bundles, but with no more May 30th end date.

I was having trouble deciding whether to go for the SSO -> SSO Pro upgrade, or to get Albion Neo and Stratus via the Spring Sale's 'Zeitgeist' bundle (already had Kepler). I decided to go with the latter, and it looks like I made the right choice, as I can still upgrade to SSO Pro for the same price when I am ready. Assuming, of course, that this is a permanent thing.

It is a bit strange right now, because someone without any of the SSO libraries can buy Symphonic Strings for $799, or Symphonic Strings, Symphonic Brass, Symphonic Woodwinds, and Masse for $999. So Spitfire is seeming to *really* be pushing the sale of the full orchestra.


----------



## lgmcben (Jun 1, 2021)

So they didn't forget to put orange numbers there


----------



## easyrider (Jun 1, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> It looks like the sale on SSO bundles is continuing indefinitely. In the 2021 Spring Sale thread, it was mentioned that the 50% off for all of the SSO bundles (SSO, SSO Complete, SSO Chamber Strings Edition, SSO Professional, SSO Complete Professional, and SSO Chamber Strings Edition Professional) would be continuing past the originally-scheduled end date of May 30th.
> 
> And it looks to be the case. This is how the page looked earlier:
> 
> ...


I would love to know the sales figures for people with SSO who actually upgraded to pro….


----------



## yiph2 (Jun 1, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I would love to know the sales figures for people with SSO who actually upgraded to pro….


It's the same $450 i think


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Jun 1, 2021)

lgmcben said:


> So they didn't forget to put orange numbers there


Nope, they were planning this all along!

I also just confirmed it with Spitfire support, the new SSO bundle prices are permanent.


----------



## easyrider (Jun 1, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> It's the same $450 i think


 No I meant who actually upgraded to pro….


----------



## lgmcben (Jun 1, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Nope, they were planning this all along!
> 
> I also just confirmed it with Spitfire support, the new SSO bundle prices are permanent.


I suspected this earlier in this thread. They never said bundles are on sale. So we can expect bundles to be even cheaper during BlackFriday.


----------



## easyrider (Jun 1, 2021)

lgmcben said:


> I suspected this earlier in this thread. They never said bundles are on sale. So we can expect bundles to be even cheaper during BlackFriday.


I very much doubt that.


----------



## yiph2 (Jun 1, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I very much doubt that.


Yes its true. I asked them


----------



## easyrider (Jun 1, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> Yes its true. I asked them


Asked them what?

I was quoting @lgmcben


----------



## yiph2 (Jun 1, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Asked them what?
> 
> I was quoting @lgmcben


SSO bundles were price reduced. However, I've asked support and they said those bundles will NOT be going on further discounts


----------



## easyrider (Jun 1, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> SSO bundles were price reduced. However, I've asked support and they said those bundles will NOT be going on further discounts


That’s what I said!


#669



> lgmcben said:
> I suspected this earlier in this thread. They never said bundles are on sale. So we can expect bundles to be even cheaper during BlackFriday.


----------



## yiph2 (Jun 1, 2021)

easyrider said:


> That’s what I said!
> 
> 
> #669


Oh, I was referring to the first part. The only things for SSO that was on sale was the individual libraries. Sorry for confusion


----------



## Mike Fox (Jun 1, 2021)

lgmcben said:


> Is the recording quality of SSO(almost 10 years old) inferior to today's library(eg. ARO) in any way?


I’d say the actual audio quality is pretty good, but the programming and user experience feels somewhat outdated to me, especially when i compare it to newer string libs (Afflatus, Areia, etc.).

Honestly though? I personally think SA needs to update their GUI, because it’s not very user friendly, and the tiny print is somewhat difficult to read.

People have been complaining about that for years though, so i don’t think we’ll ever see it improved.


----------



## easyrider (Jun 1, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> I’d say the actual audio quality is pretty good, but the programming and user experience feels somewhat outdated to me, especially when i compare it to newer string libs (Afflatus, Areia, etc.).
> 
> Honestly though? I personally think SA needs to update their GUI, because it’s not very user friendly, and the tiny print is somewhat difficult to read.
> 
> People have been complaining about that for years though, so i don’t think we’ll ever see it improved.


They just need to port it to the SF player….😂


----------



## Mike Fox (Jun 1, 2021)

easyrider said:


> They just need to port it to the SF player….😂


----------



## Henu (Jun 1, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> I’d say the actual audio quality is pretty good, but the programming and user experience feels somewhat outdated to me


Absolutely. I have a love- hate relationship with the library since I bought it in late 2016. It's basically been my "go-to" for bigger sound, but every time I use it feels it's so hard to get consistend sound of it if compared to e.g. CSS or my newest crush Hollywood Strings (!!!) which seems to be one of the easiest balance-able string libraries around. And it doesn't have proper staccatos at all, which is really a letdown. The time machine is better than nothing, but doesn't really give you staccatissimos no matter how you stretch.

I'm currently doing an orchestral piece using SSS and while the sound is still good in 2021 (sample libraries rarely "outdate" by their sound, but due to other things as Mike mentioned) the workflow is still fucking atrocious.
Completely imbalanced articulations are manageable, but CC curves and velocity volumes having their own behaviour on each separate articulation is a bit trickier. And many times the dynamics go from pp to mf for the first 90% of the wheel or short velocity and suddenly there's a HUGE AND SCARY jump in the dynamics at the very, very end of the curve or velocity. And if you have the Pro- version, using the outriggers on V1 and V2 makes me want to scream aloud when playing in unison, because if you don't get the volumes to match almost 100%, the stereo image goes complete bonkers. So the volume inconsistencies are my biggest problem with the library, but everything else I love.

It's an annoying beast to tackle due to the rather inconsistent programming, but when it works, it sounds really freaking good. And despite my rant, it's still one of the best string libraries around.


----------



## justthere (Aug 14, 2021)

Henu said:


> Absolutely. I have a love- hate relationship with the library since I bought it in late 2016. It's basically been my "go-to" for bigger sound, but every time I use it feels it's so hard to get consistend sound of it if compared to e.g. CSS or my newest crush Hollywood Strings (!!!) which seems to be one of the easiest balance-able string libraries around. And it doesn't have proper staccatos at all, which is really a letdown. The time machine is better than nothing, but doesn't really give you staccatissimos no matter how you stretch.
> 
> I'm currently doing an orchestral piece using SSS and while the sound is still good in 2021 (sample libraries rarely "outdate" by their sound, but due to other things as Mike mentioned) the workflow is still fucking atrocious.
> Completely imbalanced articulations are manageable, but CC curves and velocity volumes having their own behaviour on each separate articulation is a bit trickier. And many times the dynamics go from pp to mf for the first 90% of the wheel or short velocity and suddenly there's a HUGE AND SCARY jump in the dynamics at the very, very end of the curve or velocity. And if you have the Pro- version, using the outriggers on V1 and V2 makes me want to scream aloud when playing in unison, because if you don't get the volumes to match almost 100%, the stereo image goes complete bonkers. So the volume inconsistencies are my biggest problem with the library, but everything else I love.
> ...


But all of that is why they have marked it down so much. It’s EOL. It pays for further development on new stuff - that’s how this business works. Nothing shameful or wrong about it - it’s not perfect but there’s a lot of content. If one is starting out it covers a lot of ground, and if one has some things it offers some good alternatives. Nobody would say you can’t write good music with it - if your music isn’t good, it’s most likely not the library. And UACC is great to get one’s head in the game about articulation switching. And to be blunt - it might teach someone about how to work around the inevitable issues of any library, which is vital; and about what they want a library to be because of what isn’t right about it.


----------



## composer313 (Dec 12, 2021)

Yeah - do not know what happened in the post editing! Thanks for watching though!


----------

