# Basic Reverb Routing



## hozierschurch (Nov 10, 2017)

Hi all.

With a large-ish orchestral template (using summing stacks in LPX), do you route Reverb via 'Send' or 'Output'?

From what I can see 'Send' gives you individual control of Reverb but you hear 2 lots of sound (source + reverb) whereas Output uses 100% of signal and to my ears sounds better?


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## kurtvanzo (Nov 10, 2017)

hozierschurch said:


> Hi all.
> 
> With a large-ish orchestral template (using summing stacks in LPX), do you route Reverb via 'Send' or 'Output'?
> 
> From what I can see 'Send' gives you individual control of Reverb but you hear 2 lots of sound (source + reverb) whereas Output uses 100% of signal and to my ears sounds better?



Often depending on the resonant frequencies of the reverb it will make certain instruments stand out more than others, so the only way to adjust it without touching the mix balance is to use individual sends to the reverb. Sometimes it helps to insert an eq just before the reverb (so it's essentailly in the "master send" to scoop out some of the lower mids and bass frequencies (or do it in the reverb if you have something like Altiverb) to get rid of some of the muddy build up that can happen with longer reverb tmes. Even an EQ after can be helpful.


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## John Busby (Nov 10, 2017)

hozierschurch said:


> but you hear 2 lots of sound (source + reverb)


if you do a send (which, imo is the best way for an orchestra) make sure you pull out all of the dry signal in the reverb! and also what kurtvanzo said above, an eq before the reverb instance will free up any buildups


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## mc_deli (Nov 10, 2017)

I also like the idea of routing all the reverb/delay buses to a WET masterbus and all section buses to a DRY masterbus, with both of those going to a Mastermasterbus


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 10, 2017)

kurtvanzo said:


> Often depending on the resonant frequencies of the reverb it will make certain instruments stand out more than others, so the only way to adjust it without touching the mix balance is to use individual sends to the reverb. Sometimes it helps to insert an eq just before the reverb (so it's essentailly in the "master send" to scoop out some of the lower mids and bass frequencies (or do it in the reverb if you have something like Altiverb) to get rid of some of the muddy build up that can happen with longer reverb tmes. Even an EQ after can be helpful.


Good advice. Look up 'Abby Road Trick' and do this BEFORE the verb. Nothing cleans up the mud and ring more.


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## hozierschurch (Feb 21, 2018)

johnbusbymusic said:


> if you do a send (which, imo is the best way for an orchestra) make sure you pull out all of the dry signal in the reverb! and also what kurtvanzo said above, an eq before the reverb instance will free up any buildups



Hey John, 

Been a while since I was working with this but just to be clear, when inserting an EQ before the before the reverb instance, is this done on the reverb strip itself or on the original channel strip?


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## John Busby (Feb 21, 2018)

hozierschurch said:


> Hey John,
> 
> Been a while since I was working with this but just to be clear, when inserting an EQ before the before the reverb instance, is this done on the reverb strip itself or on the original channel strip?


The reverb strip/aux
that way you're only cutting and boosting what you want to go into the reverb while leaving the source in tact


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## playz123 (Feb 21, 2018)

Rob Elliott said:


> Good advice. Look up 'Abby Road Trick' and do this BEFORE the verb. Nothing cleans up the mud and ring more.


I concur with Rob. And you can use this trick in many ways and on different types of music. Here's a link to a little demo showing how it used on vocal, guitar and drums, but that's not its only use by any means. I definitely prefer the EQ to be before the reverb as well.



Also, I've attached a little image of a preset I made as a starting point in FabFilter Pro Q2. If you have that plugin, the image may prove useful.


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## kimarnesen (Feb 21, 2018)

playz123 said:


> Also, I've attached a little image of a preset I made as a starting point in FabFilter Pro Q2. If you have that plugin, the image may prove useful.



Nice, so with "before the reverb", do you have this on the reverb bus above the reverb? Beginner here.


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## sean8877 (Feb 21, 2018)

playz123 said:


> I concur with Rob. And you can use this trick in many ways and on different types of music. Here's a link to a little demo showing how it used on vocal, guitar and drums, but that's not its only use by any means. I definitely prefer the EQ to be before the reverb as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I've attached a little image of a preset I made as a starting point in FabFilter Pro Q2. If you have that plugin, the image may prove useful.



Any chance you could upload the preset file (.ffp file)? No big deal if you can't but I'm still learning how to use EQ and I don't know how to recreate what you have in your screenshot in FF Pro Q2. Thanks either way.


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## playz123 (Feb 21, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> Nice, so with "before the reverb", do you have this on the reverb bus above the reverb? Beginner here.


Insert slot on the track or bus where the reverb is located. If you watch the video you will see how it's placed in Pro Tools, and the same idea is used in other DAWs. In any case, just make sure it's in the signal chain before the reverb, not after. For fun, also place it after to hear the difference.


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## Robo Rivard (Feb 21, 2018)

Wow, just watched the Abbey Road Trick video, and it's very convincing! I'm usually pretty careful with my use of reverb, but it seems like it's never enough, and the mix always get too muddy. This new way of working might be just what I needed.


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## playz123 (Feb 21, 2018)

sean8877 said:


> Any chance you could upload the preset file (.ffp file)? No big deal if you can't but I'm still learning how to use EQ and I don't know how to recreate what you have in your screenshot in FF Pro Q2. Thanks either way.


In Cubase, it seems a Q2 user preset file is not saved as .ffp rather as .vstpreset. If you are using Cubase then the attached file will work. If not, it won't. I am going to make one in Logic sometime as well. In any case, here's a screenshot from the video, which shows many of the settings for creating the curve.


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## sean8877 (Feb 21, 2018)

playz123 said:


> In Cubase, it seems a Q2 user preset file is not saved as .ffp rather as .vstpreset. If you are using Cubase then the attached file will work. If not, it won't. I am going to make one in Logic sometime as well. In any case, here's a screenshot from the video, which shows many of the settings for creating the curve.


Thanks that's really awesome! I actually have Cubase but I Googled the Q2 preset file extension and I must have looked at a page for Logic. Much appreciated.


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## playz123 (Feb 21, 2018)

sean8877 said:


> Thanks that's really awesome! I actually have Cubase but I Googled the Q2 preset file extension and I must have looked at a page for Logic. Much appreciated.


The Fab Filter Q2 presets in Cubase _are_ indeed .ffp, but you'll note I mentioned "user" presets. They are the ones that are .vstpreset So your Google reference was accurate if referring to what is supplied by FabFilter. Hope that helps clarify.


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## sean8877 (Feb 22, 2018)

playz123 said:


> The Fab Filter Q2 presets in Cubase _are_ indeed .ffp, but you'll note I mentioned "user" presets. They are the ones that are .vstpreset So your Google reference was accurate if referring to what is supplied by FabFilter. Hope that helps clarify.


That makes sense now, still learning all this stuff. Thanks for the help


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## sdBDigital (Feb 22, 2018)

Everyone else has already said enough. As for me, I send what I can unless I really want to saturate a particular instrument. EQing before you hit the 'Verb is the way to go. Unless you like mud. Some people like mud.


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## aaronventure (Feb 23, 2018)

You can have it as an insert and still maintain control over it (in Reaper, at least). You route it to channels 3/4 (or the first two available if you're already using some), add effects for 3/4 and sculpt your reverb, then just mix it down in-track to 1/2 with your desired volume. Not recommended for reverbs that eat the sound 100% and include source manipulation like Spat or Altiverb (when using Altiverb that way).

That said, I prefer my reverb on an insert and with some small amounts of instrument-specific compression. Can't really get multiband compression that accurately done if I just have a bus reverb to work with.


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## hozierschurch (Feb 23, 2018)

And this Abbey Road Trick would also be cool to use with EWQL Spaces? (100% dry)


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## JohnG (Feb 23, 2018)

I think it depends on what kind of music you're mixing and what kind of sound you want. Spaces has a simple filter setup that allows some control over highs and lows, fwiw.


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