# How good is Artvista Malmsjö really?



## Mason (Nov 27, 2018)

I’ve seen so much praise for this piano which of course makes it quite interesting.
But how good is really? Is it good to be $99 or does it compete with the big ones?


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## Beluga (Nov 27, 2018)

It’s quite hyped because Hans Zimmer uses it. Personally I think it sounds synthy and doesn’t have a good feel when you play it.


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## WindcryMusic (Nov 27, 2018)

I own it, and think it is very good for a specific flavor, but I wouldn't call it a general workhorse piano. Obviously if you want to make use of a piano tone something like that heard in HZ's "Time", you really can't do better than the Malmsjö. But for the majority of purposes it isn't the first one I reach for.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 27, 2018)

Strangely, I like there EXS24 version (converted from Gigastudio I believe) better than the Kontakt version.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Nov 27, 2018)

You're going to get a lot of opinions, I'm sure, but here is a fact: this week all Art Vista instruments are 50% off. Just use the code black.

So you'll have to refine your question and ask whether it's worth $50.


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## germancomponist (Nov 27, 2018)

It is a "sound" question. If you like the sound, buy it. I love this piano sound!


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## dgburns (Nov 27, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> Strangely, I like there EXS24 version (converted from Gigastudio I believe) better than the Kontakt version.



That would make sense to me. The EXS doesn't have that 'filtered' sound, it's more upfront and clear. My opinion at least.


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## CGR (Nov 27, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> Strangely, I like there EXS24 version (converted from Gigastudio I believe) better than the Kontakt version.


Interesting to hear Jay. Do you have any idea why this would be the case?


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## germancomponist (Nov 27, 2018)

dgburns said:


> That would make sense to me. The EXS doesn't have that 'filtered' sound, it's more upfront and clear. My opinion at least.


Please send me a sample from whatever and let us compare it, played by the EXS sampler and played by Kontakt sampler.


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## Hans Adamson (Nov 27, 2018)

Some people prefer the audio engine of Steinberg Halion, or EXS24 to the one in Kontakt. But the wavs when converting the legacy Malmsjö to EXS remain the same. It is also important to remember that Malmsjö GVI is in many ways a superior, more versatile product to the legacy Malmsjö in any format. It also includes every legacy version.


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## ReelToLogic (Nov 27, 2018)

Just listened to a bunch of the Art Vista demos. My favorite was the SuperGrand which can blend in some Steinway - really beautiful tone. I really don't need more piano libraries but I'm very tempted at this sale price. My main concern is that it's only 2GB in size and therefore may have very few velocity layers, which I often find annoying. Does anyone know how many layers the library has?


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## CGR (Nov 27, 2018)

ReelToLogic said:


> Just listened to a bunch of the Art Vista demos. My favorite was the SuperGrand which can blend in some Steinway - really beautiful tone. I really don't need more piano libraries but I'm very tempted at this sale price. My main concern is that it's only 2GB in size and therefore may have very few velocity layers, which I often find annoying. Does anyone know how many layers the library has?


Don't be put off by the size. It's a very dynamic piano, programmed & scripted very well and it 'plays' beautifully (there are a bunch of keyboard velocity profiles you can choose from in the GUI). As a side note, Nord manage to achieve some of the most realistic sampled acoustic pianos which are a lot smaller than 2GB. The Swedes seem to have a real talent in this area!


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## CGR (Nov 27, 2018)

Back to the Malmsjö:


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## CGR (Nov 27, 2018)

Beluga said:


> It’s quite hyped because Hans Zimmer uses it. Personally I think it sounds synthy and doesn’t have a good feel when you play it.


Really? See above.


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## kavinsky (Nov 27, 2018)

just remap the samples how you want, its very simple because its a very old instrument and the sample count is really low.


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## Beluga (Nov 27, 2018)

CGR said:


> Really? See above.


Really. I own it and the sound being synthy and artificial is my impression of it.


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## CGR (Nov 27, 2018)

Beluga said:


> Really. I own it and the sound being synthy and artificial is my impression of it.


Fair enough. Doesn't sound synthy & artificial to my ears, but it does sound like a late 1890's grand piano (to me).


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## MrCambiata (Nov 28, 2018)

For me it belongs to the category of "character pianos" and offers a more vintage sound. Like Piano in Blue it has a rich, full timber. With my controller (Yamaha cp33) its playability it better than Piano in Blue out of the box.
For general perpose I still prefer my other piano libraries (Garritan CFX and the Grandeur) which have much more velocity layers, even if they sound a little too clean in comparison.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 28, 2018)

CGR said:


> Interesting to hear Jay. Do you have any idea why this would be the case?



None whatsoever.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 28, 2018)

Hans Adamson said:


> Some people prefer the audio engine of Steinberg Halion, or EXS24 to the one in Kontakt. But the wavs when converting the legacy Malmsjö to EXS remain the same. It is also important to remember that Malmsjö GVI is in many ways a superior, more versatile product to the legacy Malmsjö in any format. It also includes every legacy version.



Hans, I don't doubt any off that, but I don't choose the Malmsjö to be versatile, but when I want a specific sound and for whatever reason, the default presets in the EXS24 version just put it where I want it more than the Kontakt ones.

Here is the Dream Grand preset, no verb on either, first with the EXS24 and then Kontakt. I tried to make the volumes commensurate as Kontakt version is louder by a considerable amount upon loading.


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## Hans Adamson (Nov 28, 2018)

Thanks Jay, That was beautiful! I hear immediately that the EXS version (a version created by EXS when importing the original Kontakt version) has put the velocity mapping transitions higher. So the EXS will trigger a softer dynamic layer, in this piece maybe only from the ppp layer. This could be achieved in the Kontakt version by selecting a different keyboard response from the interface.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 28, 2018)

Hans Adamson said:


> Thanks Jay, That was beautiful! I hear immediately that the EXS version (a version created by EXS when importing the original Kontakt version) has put the velocity mapping transitions higher. So the EXS will trigger a softer dynamic layer, in this piece maybe only from the ppp layer. This could be achieved in the Kontakt version by selecting a different keyboard response from the interface.



Thanks Hans (and love to Amanda.)

I am sure that is true but as a Logic user, I don't care.  I load up the EXS24 patch, play, and as you heard, I feel inspired. I also love the Midnight Grand and Mozart patches btw.


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## CGR (Nov 28, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> Hans, I don't doubt any off that, but I don't choose the Malmsjö to be versatile, but when I want a specific sound and for whatever reason, the default presets in the EXS24 version just put it where I want it more than the Kontakt ones.
> 
> Here is the Dream Grand preset, no verb on either, first with the EXS24 and then Kontakt. I tried to make the volumes commensurate as Kontakt version is louder by a considerable amount upon loading.



Lovely playing Jay - this is the ideal type of music for the ArtVista Malmsjö in my opinion. It's really important to select the best velocity setting/keyboard profile in the Kontakt versions of the ArtVista pianos (or in EXS, the best preset for the piece you're playing). It makes a huge difference when the velocity layers are mapped appropriately to how your keyboard transmits the MIDI velocity data.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 28, 2018)

CGR said:


> Lovely playing Jay - this is the ideal type of music for the ArtVista Malmsjö in my opinion. It's really important to select the best velocity setting/keyboard profile in the Kontakt versions of the ArtVista pianos (or in EXS, the best preset for the piece you're playing). It makes a huge difference when the velocity layers are mapped appropriately to how your keyboard transmits the MIDI velocity data.




Oh, but I didn't play it on Kontakt. I played it on the EXS24 and then copied the region to the Kontakt version, lowering the volume to make them closer.


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## CGR (Nov 28, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> Oh, but I didn't play it on Kontakt. I played it on the EXS24 and then copied the region to the Kontakt version, lowering the volume to make them closer.


Ah, OK. You got me curious about the EXS24 version so called it up yesterday. The different presets (Dream, Midnight, Mozart, Rock etc.) really change the dynamics & response. As you said - load it up & play and get inspired.


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## Gerbil (Nov 29, 2018)

Bumping this just to say I bought the Supergrand and am thrilled with it. For some reason I thought it was going to be a bit like the Imperfect Samples Steinway - some sweet spots but compromised on playability - but I was very wrong. This is a lovely instrument to perform on. Obviously great for lyrical music but also more flexible than I thought.

What amazes me is the size of it. Some of the libraries are 100 times larger. It proves that you don't need a million layers and umpteen mic positions to craft a really good instrument. Just great ears and careful programming.


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## CGR (Nov 29, 2018)

Gerbil said:


> Bumping this just to say I bought the Supergrand and am thrilled with it. For some reason I thought it was going to be a bit like the Imperfect Samples Steinway - some sweet spots but compromised on playability - but I was very wrong. This is a lovely instrument to perform on. Obviously great for lyrical music but also more flexible than I thought.
> 
> What amazes me is the size of it. Some of the libraries are 100 times larger. It proves that you don't need a million layers and umpteen mic positions to craft a really good instrument. Just great ears and careful programming.


I agree. It just works, and is surprisingly flexible in shaping the tone from warm & wooly to bright & biting - great dynamic range. Also doesn't tax your computer resources in a multitrack project.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Nov 29, 2018)

Gerbil said:


> What amazes me is the size of it. Some of the libraries are 100 times larger. It proves that you don't need a million layers and umpteen mic positions to craft a really good instrument. Just great ears and careful programming.


Exactly. I know a developer who refuses to include the GB size of his libraries on his website, as a soft protest against the way some companies market their virtual instruments based on how much space they take up on your hard drive.


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## keepitsimple (Apr 8, 2019)

I see someone bumped this thread before to praise the Supergrand. Well...i'm bumping too just to say how good the Virtual Grand 3 is. I bought it last year then deleted it from my drive when upgrading my SSD and yesterday i requested the download files again and got it up and running.

Fantastic piano, yes it's an old Steinway B and the age shows when you play it but that's when the presets come in hence they skyrocket it to a very versatile piano that can easily stand its ground against some of the big names in piano sample libraries. 

Bass is so rich and velvety and the tops sparkle (or not if you don't want them to). 

Love this piano.


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## CGR (Apr 8, 2019)

keepitsimple said:


> I see someone bumped this thread before to praise the Supergrand. Well...i'm bumping too just to say how good the Virtual Grand 3 is. I bought it last year then deleted it from my drive when upgrading my SSD and yesterday i requested the download files again and got it up and running.
> 
> Fantastic piano, yes it's an old Steinway B and the age shows when you play it but that's when the presets come in hence they skyrocket it to a very versatile piano that can easily stand its ground against some of the big names in piano sample libraries.
> 
> ...


Yep, many sampled pianos I've bought over the years have come and gone, but the ArtVista pianos are keepers.


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## keepitsimple (Apr 8, 2019)

CGR said:


> Yep, many sampled pianos I've bought over the years have come and gone, but the ArtVista pianos are keepers.


I'm guessing this one is their best fit for classical/jazzy stuff? I'm curious about the others, maybe i should ask Hans (the developer).


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## CGR (Apr 8, 2019)

keepitsimple said:


> I'm guessing this one is their best fit for classical/jazzy stuff? I'm curious about the others, maybe i should ask Hans (the developer).



Not necessarily. The Supergrand is surprising flexible across many genres & styles, and The Malmsjo is great for soft lyrical classical (eg. Beethoven Sonatas, Eric Satie, Chopin Ballades & Nocturnes etc.) I'm not normally a fan of the 'hybrid piano' idea, but The Supergrand (which is an adjustable blend of the VGP3 and The Malmsjo) works really well, and has it's own sonic character which is different to the 2 pianos from which it was derived. It won't get you the same bite as the straight VGP3, or the complete warmth and mellowness of The Malmsjo, so I'm happy to have all 3 ArtVista Pianos.


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## KEM (Jul 4, 2020)

So I just bought this the other day and it’s definitely the best piano library I’ve ever owned/played, which only further continues my strange obsession with all things Swedish, now if you’ll excuse me I’m gonna go listen to Meshuggah...


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## CGR (Jul 4, 2020)

KEM said:


> So I just bought this the other day and it’s definitely the best piano library I’ve ever owned/played, which only further continues my strange obsession with all things Swedish, now if you’ll excuse me I’m gonna go listen to Meshuggah...


I think the timbers from the Swedish forests impart a unique tone to their pianos. The Malmsjo grands have such a distinct 'voice' - it's a shame they are no longer around and manufacturing pianos. I'd love to track down a Malmsjo Grand one day, although I suspect not many of them ever made it all the way to Australia.


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## KEM (Jul 4, 2020)

CGR said:


> I think the timbers from the Swedish forests impart a unique tone to their pianos. The Malmsjo grands have such a distinct 'voice' - it's a shame they are no longer around and manufacturing pianos. I'd love to track down a Malmsjo Grand one day, although I suspect not many of them ever made it all the way to Australia.



I absolutely love its character, it blends so well with everything I use, I never feel like it’s fighting against anything for its place in the mix, I was using Piano In Blue before and this is just so much better, and it’s probably the only piano that I’m fully confident in having it all by itself and not trying to hide it along other instruments.

I definitely plan on taking a trip to Sweden with my friends sometime in the future, and I’d definitely love to see if I can track one down and see how it sounds in real life, although I know in reality if I go to Sweden all my focus will be on women lol


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## KEM (Jun 18, 2021)

@Hans Adamson I just got a sustain pedal the other day and I’ve tried turning off the pedal noise within the library on Kontakt but the pedal noise is still happening whenever my sustain automation happens, any way to get rid of it altogether? And second, I have a Komplete Kontrol s88 so which keyboard setting should I use for the most accurate representation of the library?


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 19, 2021)

KEM said:


> @Hans Adamson I just got a sustain pedal the other day and I’ve tried turning off the pedal noise within the library on Kontakt but the pedal noise is still happening whenever my sustain automation happens, any way to get rid of it altogether? And second, I have a Komplete Kontrol s88 so which keyboard setting should I use for the most accurate representation of the library?


Hello Ludwig,

There is an On/Off switch to the left of the rotary knob for "Pedal" (Pedal noise). Switching it Off should remove the "clonk" sound from the pedal and swoosh sound when dampers are lifted from the string. Turning the rotary knob all the way down should have the same effect. Regarding the Komplete Kontrol s88 keyboard, I have not tested it, so there is no specific keyboard preset for this controller. The default preset assumes a keyboard with a full range of velocity response, ie. the keyboard will produce velocity values from 1-127. At the time of calibrating the keyboard presets for the Malmsjö GVI, there were only a few keyboard that had a full keyboard response, and those were keyboards with impact sensors: Kawai stage pianos, Kurzweil MIDIBOARD, and typical spring-controlled "synthesizer" keyboards.

If you don't know which one of the keyboard presets would fit the Kontrol s88, best, try the Malmsjö GVI with an old spring-controlled keyboard to get a feel for the full range possible. Then pick the Malmsjö keyboard preset that get you closest to this using the Komplete Kontrol s88. Alternatively, make a MIDI recording playing one note 127 times starting as "soft" as you can (pushing the key slowly) and gradually hit the key "harder" (faster) where the last note would produce the highest velocity value possible with the Kontrol s88. Study the recorded MIDI note velocity values. If they go approximately 1-100, use a Yamaha preset. If they go 1 - 120, use a Fatar preset. If they go 1-127 use the default preset. Among those presets that do not reach 127, or do not reach down to 1, there are also variations in how the velocities are spread over the spectrum of velocity values, and they will affect how sensitive the keyboard is in the mid-range of the velocity spectrum.

Generally, I have noticed that if a keyboard controller allows you to alter the keyboard sensitivity ( soft/medium/hard ) anything else than the medium setting will reduce the number of possible velocities that the keyboard can produce, so you should probably keep the keyboard's "medium" setting. (I have not tested the Kontrol s88).

Hope this helps.


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 19, 2021)

KEM said:


> I absolutely love its character, it blends so well with everything I use, I never feel like it’s fighting against anything for its place in the mix, I was using Piano In Blue before and this is just so much better, and it’s probably the only piano that I’m fully confident in having it all by itself and not trying to hide it along other instruments.
> 
> I definitely plan on taking a trip to Sweden with my friends sometime in the future, and I’d definitely love to see if I can track one down and see how it sounds in real life, although I know in reality if I go to Sweden all my focus will be on women lol


Some years ago when I was in Stockholm I visited the museums on Djurgården. I think it was in Nordiska Museet (The Nordic Museum) I found a Malmsjö grand piano identical to the one recorded. It was sitting on the second floor apart from any specific exhibition, and it had a sign "Do not touch". Of course I had to try the sound and I played a few keys lightly, and it sounded exactly like the one I recorded!


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 19, 2021)

KEM said:


> @Hans Adamson I just got a sustain pedal the other day and I’ve tried turning off the pedal noise within the library on Kontakt but the pedal noise is still happening whenever my sustain automation happens, any way to get rid of it altogether? And second, I have a Komplete Kontrol s88 so which keyboard setting should I use for the most accurate representation of the library?


If you test your keyboard's MIDI velocity output as described in my earlier post today, you may also check the velocity resolution of the Komplete Kontrol s88 keyboard. Study how many discrete velocities you find among the 127 recorded. Read more about it here:
https://soundbytesmag.net/interviewwithhansadamsonofartvistaproductions/


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## KEM (Jun 19, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> If you test your keyboard's MIDI velocity output as described in my earlier post today, you may also check the velocity resolution of the Komplete Kontrol s88 keyboard. Study how many discrete velocities you find among the 127 recorded. Read more about it here:
> https://soundbytesmag.net/interviewwithhansadamsonofartvistaproductions/


Thank you! I’ll check all this out and see what works best.

Also, I did turn off the pedal and turned the knob all the way down just to be sure but I’m still getting the sound, I’ve been remaking “Surveying the Ruins” from Batman Begins which is the Malmsjö but it doesn’t have any pedal noise, so that should be a good example, I’ll post a clip as soon as I can


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 19, 2021)

KEM said:


> Thank you! I’ll check all this out and see what works best.
> 
> Also, I did turn off the pedal and turned the knob all the way down just to be sure but I’m still getting the sound, I’ve been remaking “Surveying the Ruins” from Batman Begins which is the Malmsjö but it doesn’t have any pedal noise, so that should be a good example, I’ll post a clip as soon as I can


I don't know how it is possible. Did you turn off the switch to the left of the rotary knob as well? I am out of town atm and cannot check the scripting/programming right now.


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## KEM (Jun 19, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> I don't know how it is possible. Did you turn off the switch to the left of the rotary knob as well? I am out of town atm and cannot check the scripting/programming right now.


Yeah I did, I’ll take a picture of the GUI in Kontakt so you can see it, but I tried it multiple ways and it still triggers it, could the sustain pedal automation points be triggering the pedal to turn itself back on? Even if it did though I have the knob all the way down so I don’t know why it would. I should be home in a few hours so I’ll be able to post everything


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 19, 2021)

KEM said:


> Yeah I did, I’ll take a picture of the GUI in Kontakt so you can see it, but I tried it multiple ways and it still triggers it, could the sustain pedal automation points be triggering the pedal to turn itself back on? Even if it did though I have the knob all the way down so I don’t know why it would. I should be home in a few hours so I’ll be able to post everything


If you turn off the "pedal" switch and then push down your sustain pedal without playing any notes on the keyboard, do you get a visual reading of a sound on your meters? A sound triggered by the sustain pedal?


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## KEM (Jun 19, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> If you turn off the "pedal" switch and then push down your sustain pedal without playing any notes on the keyboard, do you get a visual reading of a sound on your meters? A sound triggered by the sustain pedal?


Just checked and the meter on Cubase does spike, but there isn’t any sound coming through, the pedal noise only happens when the piano is actually playing and the sustain automation is triggered, here’s that Batman Begins mockup so you can hear it


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 20, 2021)

KEM said:


> Just checked and the meter on Cubase does spike, but there isn’t any sound coming through, the pedal noise only happens when the piano is actually playing and the sustain automation is triggered, here’s that Batman Begins mockup so you can hear it


The scripting for the pedal sounds only allows for the pedal samples to be triggered by incoming cc64 when the pedal switch is "ON" ($PEDAL_onoff = 1). If the samples are triggered without this condition met, it is a mystery to me. Maybe someone else can suggest what is going on here? I include the pedal sample triggering script below.

if (($CC_NUM = 64) and (%CC[64] >= 64)) // if sustain pedal is depressed
if ($PEDAL_onoff = 1) // if pedal switch is ON...
$Pedal_ID := play_note(12,$pedal_velocity,0,-1) // ...play pedal sample
end if
$down_time := $ENGINE_UPTIME
else


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 20, 2021)

I am going to speculate here: Maybe you originally recorded with the Pedal switch ON and the automation track somehow recorded the MIDI note for the pedal sample when play_note was triggered. So somewhere in the automation track there is a MIDI note for the pedal sample recorded. If this is the case maybe you could re-record the automation track.


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## KEM (Jun 20, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> I am going to speculate here: Maybe you originally recorded with the Pedal switch ON and the automation track somehow recorded the MIDI note for the pedal sample when play_note was triggered. So somewhere in the automation track there is a MIDI note for the pedal sample recorded. If this is the case maybe you could re-record the automation track.


It’s not making sense to me either, I guess it could just drag out the notes to the point where I’d retrigger the sustain pedal and make it sound like they’re sustained, that’s really the only solution I can think of


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 20, 2021)

The first thing I would do if I was troubleshooting it would be to load the NI script MIDI Monitor in a script slot after the Malmsjö GVI main script and verify that MIDI note 12 actually is played. MIDI note 12 is the pedal down sound.


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## KEM (Jun 20, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> The first thing I would do if I was troubleshooting it would be to load the NI script MIDI Monitor in a script slot after the Malmsjö GVI main script and verify that MIDI note 12 actually is played. MIDI note 12 is the pedal down sound.


Ok thank you I’ll try that, not the best at the technical stuff but I’m sure I can figure it out


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 20, 2021)

KEM said:


> Ok thank you I’ll try that, not the best at the technical stuff but I’m sure I can figure it out


First you may want to switch on the pedal sounds and check that the MIDI Monitor script utility actually catches script generated notes. (I was just hoping for that, and I can't check because I am away from my studio.) You don't need to play the keyboard, just depress the sustain pedal.


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## KEM (Jun 20, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> First you may want to switch on the pedal sounds and check that the MIDI Monitor script utility actually catches script generated notes. (I was just hoping for that, and I can't check because I am away from my studio.) You don't need to play the keyboard, just depress the sustain pedal.


To access that do I click on the wrench tool within the Malmsjö?


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 20, 2021)

KEM said:


> To access that do I click on the wrench tool within the Malmsjö?


Yes, click on the wrench, then click on "Script Editor" to the right. Then click on the far right script tab. Click "Presets" to the left. Click "Factory", the "Utilities" and select MIDI Monitor. In MIDI Monitor choose which parameters MIDI Monitor should register.


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## KEM (Jun 20, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> Yes, click on the wrench, then click on "Script Editor" to the right. Then click on the far right script tab. Click "Presets" to the left. Click "Factory", the "Utilities" and select MIDI Monitor. In MIDI Monitor choose which parameters MIDI Monitor should register.


Just went in and checked it, whenever I press or release the sustain pedal it says
“Controller: 64 (Hold/Sustain Pedal)
Value:0/127”
I’m not seeing anything about a MIDI Note 12 though.


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 21, 2021)

Make sure the "Note On" button is highlighted to the right in MIDI Monitor. It may also be that MIDI Monitor does not register script generated notes. In that case you could possibly send MIDI to the outside from Kontakt and route it to another track with Kontakt and MIDI Monitor. Another idea is to shift Kontakt's MIDI keyboard to the lower octaves and see if MIDI note 12 is depressed, but then again, I don't know if the on-screen MIDI keyboard reacts to script generated notes.


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## KEM (Jun 21, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> Make sure the "Note On" button is highlighted to the right in MIDI Monitor. It may also be that MIDI Monitor does not register script generated notes. In that case you could possibly send MIDI to the outside from Kontakt and route it to another track with Kontakt and MIDI Monitor. Another idea is to shift Kontakt's MIDI keyboard to the lower octaves and see if MIDI note 12 is depressed, but then again, I don't know if the on-screen MIDI keyboard reacts to script generated notes.


I’ll try these as soon as I wake up tomorrow, would it make any difference if my Kontakt is in VEPro on a separate computer?


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 21, 2021)

KEM said:


> I’ll try these as soon as I wake up tomorrow, would it make any difference if my Kontakt is in VEPro on a separate computer?


For the internal generation of a scripted note in Malmsjö GVI it doesn't matter. This note generation is only dependent on MIDI CC 64 coming in while the pedal switch is "On" ($PEDAL_onoff = 1). This will cause the script in Malmsjö GVI to generate a MIDI note (12). I have no experience of Vepro, and I don't know how it handles MIDI signal flow, automation, etc. but it may complicate the troubleshooting process of finding this note that we don't know where it is coming from.


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 21, 2021)

You can also delete all pedal samples and save the instrument as "Malmsjö GVI - No Pedal". That will effectively prevent any pedal samples from being played. Open with the wrench, select "Group Editor", highlight all groups starting with the word "Pedal". Open the Mapping Editor and highlight all the "Pedal" samples in the columns for note 12 and 13. Click delete. Save instrument as "Malmsjö GVI - No Pedal". Replace it in your template for the song.


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## KEM (Jun 21, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> You can also delete all pedal samples and save the instrument as "Malmsjö GVI - No Pedal". That will effectively prevent any pedal samples from being played. Open with the wrench, select "Group Editor", highlight all groups starting with the word "Pedal". Open the Mapping Editor and highlight all the "Pedal" samples in the columns for note 12 and 13. Click delete. Save instrument as "Malmsjö GVI - No Pedal". Replace it in your template for the song.







So am I deleting the highlighted boxes up top under “Group Editor” or the red zones right above the keyboard?


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 21, 2021)

KEM said:


> So am I deleting the highlighted boxes up top under “Group Editor” or the red zones right above the keyboard?


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## KEM (Jun 21, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


>


Just did that but it still seems to be happening, I’m really lost as to what we could do now


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 22, 2021)

KEM said:


> Just did that but it still seems to be happening, I’m really lost as to what we could do now


OK, so the sound is not pedal sounds. I haven't had a chance to listen to your sound file other than through a small laptop because I am away from my studio. Mute all sound sources and effects in the mix except for the piano and listen if you still hear the sound.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 22, 2021)

The one thing I have established thus far, following this thread:

1. Since I have a weird themed piano sample hoarding game going on (I want to own all Steinway B samples, because a real B isn’t an option), I regularly play ArtVista Virtual Grand Piano 3. And I can safely say, mister Adamson has meticulously recorded that Hamburg B, and the presets are fantastic.

2. The level and depth of support mister Adamson offers in this thread is incredible!

This alone makes me want to get the Malmsjö too, and maybe even more: the frankensteined (in a good way I’m sure Hans!) Supergrand! It may be a bastard B, but there’s no need to call it a mudblood.


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## KEM (Jun 22, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> OK, so the sound is not pedal sounds. I haven't had a chance to listen to your sound file other than through a small laptop because I am away from my studio. Mute all sound sources and effects in the mix except for the piano and listen if you still hear the sound.


Got it, I will do that first thing tomorrow and post a clip of it


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## KEM (Jun 22, 2021)

@Hans Adamson here you go, no processing or anything besides a limiter on the master bus for volume.


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 22, 2021)

KEM said:


> @Hans Adamson here you go, no processing or anything besides a limiter on the master bus for volume.


Mute all channels except the piano.


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## KEM (Jun 22, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> Mute all channels except the piano.


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 22, 2021)

I have not had the opportunity to listen on good speakers, so I have not been able to evaluate properly. If you send me the MIDI sequence, I can render it on another system. One thing is 100% clear - it is not a pedal sound. The pedal was not depressed or released during the recording of the piano, and the additional pedal samples are now deleted from your instrument so they could not be the source of the sound. 

It is possible that there is a low level, low frequency sound embedded in one of the samples and that this sound is brought up to an audible level by hard limiting/compression and possible EQ. To be able to determine if this is the case, I would need to know during which sample's playback the sound is heard, or if I could get the piano MIDI sequence I could find it from an audio rendering on my system. I could then remove the sound in the sample if it does not belong there.

This would be the most effective way of going to the bottom of it, if you also could provide me with the exact time the sound is heard in the recording. I would need to know which preset was used, and if any of the impulse responses were used, so I could replicate the recording. Then I could determine exact which sample is playing and an analysis could be done of that sample. 

It is not impossible that the cause is a very low level noise in one of the piano's samples, but this is the first time this has been reported after the Malmsjö has been on the market for twenty years. 

There is one test you could do before resorting to sending me MIDI files etc: Render the music minus the piano track and listen if there are any low level sounds when the piano is not playing.


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## Snarf (Jun 22, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> if you also could provide me with the exact time the sound is heard in the recording


Sounds like it lifts the pedal at 0:20.

Respect for such extensive support, by the way. I already knew Hans Zimmer, Thomas Bergersen etc. have used this piano, but I never looked into it further because the website looks kind of abandoned. Your support here + the very characterful sound reignited my interest 

Do you ever run sales?


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## doctoremmet (Jun 22, 2021)

Snarf said:


> Sounds like it lifts the pedal at 0:20.
> 
> Respect for such extensive support, by the way. I already knew Hans Zimmer, Thomas Bergersen etc. have used this piano, but I never looked into it further because the website looks kind of abandoned. Your support here + the very characterful sound reignited my interest
> 
> Do you ever run sales?


Pssssst: the Steinway B is gorgeous too


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## CT (Jun 22, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I want to own all Steinway B samples


Do you happen to have a list of these? I can think of a few but I want to check them all out as I'm also interested in a nice B.


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## sostenuto (Jun 22, 2021)

_As analysis proceeds_ ......... have Supergrand, like it, but now wondering about Steinway B and what choices ArtVista offers to provide more than in Supergrand ?? 
Am I eligible for Virtual Grand Piano 3 Upgrade? .... and is this a notable enhancement to Supergrand ?


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## KEM (Jun 22, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> I have not had the opportunity to listen on good speakers, so I have not been able to evaluate properly. If you send me the MIDI sequence, I can render it on another system. One thing is 100% clear - it is not a pedal sound. The pedal was not depressed or released during the recording of the piano, and the additional pedal samples are now deleted from your instrument so they could not be the source of the sound.
> 
> It is possible that there is a low level, low frequency sound embedded in one of the samples and that this sound is brought up to an audible level by hard limiting/compression and possible EQ. To be able to determine if this is the case, I would need to know during which sample's playback the sound is heard, or if I could get the piano MIDI sequence I could find it from an audio rendering on my system. I could then remove the sound in the sample if it does not belong there.
> 
> ...


No noise at all when played without the piano, also not using any impulse responses, it's exactly the way it is when you load it up but with the pedal knob turned off. As far as timestamps go, you should be able to hear it on the "Just Piano" clip I posted at 0:06, 0:12, 0:20, and 1:21. Here's the midi files as well, you'll probably have to just ignore or delete all the other tracks because I don't know how to export a single midi clip, but it'll be in there for sure.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 22, 2021)

Mike T said:


> Do you happen to have a list of these? I can think of a few but I want to check them all out as I'm also interested in a nice B.


Off the top of my head (not all):

Xsample Steinway B (the one that started it all)

Synthogy Ivory II B

Versillian Joachim's Piano (love it)

Orchestral Tools Scoring Pianos B

AIR Mini Grand

EZKeys Studio Grand

EastWest B (part of EWSO)


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## CGR (Jun 22, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Off the top of my head (not all):
> 
> Xsample Steinway B (the one that started it all)
> 
> ...


Also: 

• Fluffy Audio Scoring Piano (Hamburg Steinway B)
• Garritan GPO5 - has a Steinway B and Steinway D
• UAD Ravel Steinway B (only works with their LUNA Recording System)


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## KEM (Jun 22, 2021)

Snarf said:


> Sounds like it lifts the pedal at 0:20.
> 
> Respect for such extensive support, by the way. I already knew Hans Zimmer, Thomas Bergersen etc. have used this piano, but I never looked into it further because the website looks kind of abandoned. Your support here + the very characterful sound reignited my interest
> 
> Do you ever run sales?


Maybe @Rctec could tell us how he was using it? One of the reasons I decided to try and recreate this cue was because I know just from being on this forum that he used the Malmsjö for Batman Begins so I figured I’d take a shot at it since I’ve had the piano for awhile now, I tried to get the dynamics as close as possible to the actual track but it doesn’t have any of the noise that mine does, so I’d really like to hear what he did with it.


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## sostenuto (Jun 22, 2021)

Orchestral Tools _ The Orchestral Grands is ~ $150. (includes B + D) 
Versillian Joachim's Piano is $99. 
Trust IvoryII, but Studio Grands is ~$300. (includes Boesendorfer 225)

Would be xtra cool if OT _ Orchestral Grands is highly rated. Time to start searching.


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## CT (Jun 22, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Off the top of my head (not all):
> 
> Xsample Steinway B (the one that started it all)
> 
> ...





CGR said:


> Also:
> 
> • Fluffy Audio Scoring Piano (Hamburg Steinway B)
> • Garritan GPO5 - has a Steinway B and Steinway D
> • UAD Ravel Steinway B (only works with their LUNA Recording System)


Thanks guys. There's also one in Pianoteq I believe, and the free Piano in 162 which I used years ago when starting out. And a recent free one from OT as well? Need to listen to all these....


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## FlyingAndi (Jun 22, 2021)

Could it be the release samples?
Can the volume of the release samples be adjusted on the Artvista Malmsjö?


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## doctoremmet (Jun 23, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Orchestral Tools _ The Orchestral Grands is ~ $150. (includes B + D)
> Versillian Joachim's Piano is $99.
> Trust IvoryII, but Studio Grands is ~$300. (includes Boesendorfer 225)
> 
> Would be xtra cool if OT _ Orchestral Grands is highly rated. Time to start searching.


Honestly, I think I prefer the Fluffy ones. And Joachim's piano had a LOT of extras and character going for itself. And Xsample’s piano sounds way cooler than its specs would suggest.

But maybe... the ArtVista VGP3 is the best of them all!


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## doctoremmet (Jun 23, 2021)

Mike T said:


> recent free one from OT as well


Whoa. I may have missed this one. That SINE freebie was a freeB?

Edit: yes


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## doctoremmet (Jun 23, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Trust IvoryII, but Studio Grands is ~$300. (includes Boesendorfer 225)


This package is cool as well, I waited for the Bestservice sale, IIRC $99 off


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

The main reason I love the Malmsjö so much (aside from the fact that it’s the piano used on almost all my favorite score) is that it’s the only sampled Swedish piano I know of besides the Nordic Upright by Precision Sound, I want more Swedish piano libraries!!


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## CGR (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> The main reason I love the Malmsjö so much (aside from the fact that it’s the piano used on almost all my favorite score) is that it’s the only sampled Swedish piano I know of besides the Nordic Upright by Precision Sound, I want more Swedish piano libraries!!


The Sampletekk White Grand is a large (concert grand) Malmsjö from the early 1900's. Also, the soon to be released KeyPleezer Living Room Upright was sampled from a vintage Swedish piano  AFAIK, the upright pianos in the EZkeys line are Swedish brands.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 23, 2021)

Yes, definitely check Sampletekk WG Mk II. Dirt cheap on sale but really good.

Their last sale just ended. 80% off of everything. So for $40 you can pick up this one come BF:






WG2 MkII - Studio Grand Piano


WG2 MkII




www.sampletekk.com


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

CGR said:


> The Sampletekk White Grand is a large (concert grand) Malmsjö from the early 1900's. Also, the soon to be released KeyPleezer Living Room Upright was sampled from a vintage Swedish piano  AFAIK, the upright pianos in the EZkeys line are Swedish brands.


Definitely gonna check these out!! I want all the Swedish pianos I can get my hands on!!


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## doctoremmet (Jun 23, 2021)

Mike T said:


> There's also one in Pianoteq I believe


Still didn’t pull the trigger on Pianoteq, but I might later this year...


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 23, 2021)

Snarf said:


> Sounds like it lifts the pedal at 0:20.
> 
> Respect for such extensive support, by the way. I already knew Hans Zimmer, Thomas Bergersen etc. have used this piano, but I never looked into it further because the website looks kind of abandoned. Your support here + the very characterful sound reignited my interest
> 
> Do you ever run sales?





KEM said:


> No noise at all when played without the piano, also not using any impulse responses, it's exactly the way it is when you load it up but with the pedal knob turned off. As far as timestamps go, you should be able to hear it on the "Just Piano" clip I posted at 0:06, 0:12, 0:20, and 1:21. Here's the midi files as well, you'll probably have to just ignore or delete all the other tracks because I don't know how to export a single midi clip, but it'll be in there for sure.


I thought I would be able to look at this remotely on my studio setup, but it is not working. I have looked at the MIDI file and listened to the clips. On this laptop with Sony MDR 301 headphones I cannot hear the sound. Looking at the MIDI charts it appears to be F or Bb that are playing at the indicated times. That's as far as I can get at he moment. I will look into it when I am back.


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> I thought I would be able to look at this remotely on my studio setup, but it is not working. I have looked at the MIDI file and listened to the clips. On this laptop with Sony MDR 301 headphones I cannot hear the sound. Looking at the MIDI charts it appears to be F or Bb that are playing at the indicated times. That's as far as I can get at he moment. I will look into it when I am back.


No rush, I really appreciate you taking the time to do all of this for me! I think that last one at 1:21 is the sound of the pedal, cause when I turn the sustain automation off it doesn’t do that, all the other ones could just be some sort of noise coming through on the softer dynamics, or the way the pedal interacts with them, but I really have no clue


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## sostenuto (Jun 23, 2021)

CGR said:


> The Sampletekk White Grand is a large (concert grand) Malmsjö from the early 1900's. Also, the soon to be released KeyPleezer Living Room Upright was sampled from a vintage Swedish piano  AFAIK, the upright pianos in the EZkeys line are Swedish brands.


_Appreciate this for sure !_ Purchased WG2 MkII on current Sale.

Truly pleased with all help here on VI-C ! Now have terrific set of instruments to enjoy, and learn to optimize. 
So far, bx_masterdesk, or bx_console Focusrite SC, on Master bring live sound closer to YT vids by Stu Harrison /Merriam Music, Simeon Amburgey, VSL


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## Hans Adamson (Jul 4, 2021)

Snarf said:


> Sounds like it lifts the pedal at 0:20.
> 
> Respect for such extensive support, by the way. I already knew Hans Zimmer, Thomas Bergersen etc. have used this piano, but I never looked into it further because the website looks kind of abandoned. Your support here + the very characterful sound reignited my interest
> 
> Do you ever run sales?


We have a two-week sale right now. Everything is 50% OFF!

For more information, please visit:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/art-vista-50-off-summer-sale.111590/


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## cqd (Jul 6, 2021)

Ah, just came here to mention the sale but I see I was beaten to it..
I'd been looking at buying it last week due to this thread so the timing is bang on..


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## KEM (Jul 9, 2021)

@Hans Adamson 

Just started writing another track the other night using the piano and you can hear a combination of the pedal up/down noise as well as the loud release sound even when the sustain pedal isn't engaged at all (the low notes in the middle of the clip), I'm gonna try deleting the pedal noise to see if it works but what about the loud note releases?


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## Hans Adamson (Jul 9, 2021)

KEM said:


> @Hans Adamson
> 
> Just started writing another track the other night using the piano and you can hear a combination of the pedal up/down noise as well as the loud release sound even when the sustain pedal isn't engaged at all (the low notes in the middle of the clip), I'm gonna try deleting the pedal noise to see if it works but what about the loud note releases?


KEM, if you have deleted, or, turned off the pedal sounds there will be no pedal sounds. Maybe you are hearing the release samples. i.e. the dampers engaging with the strings and silencing them when a key is released. The release samples may be adjusted in volume or turned off as well. Here's an excerpt from the manual:


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## KEM (Jul 9, 2021)

Hans Adamson said:


> KEM, if you have deleted, or, turned off the pedal sounds there will be no pedal sounds. Maybe you are hearing the release samples. i.e. the dampers engaging with the strings and silencing them when a key is released. The release samples may be adjusted in volume or turned off as well. Here's an excerpt from the manual:



That actually fixed all the issues I've been having, now I feel like an idiot for not trying that in the first place lol, thank you though!!


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## rottoy (Jul 9, 2021)

KEM said:


> The main reason I love the Malmsjö so much (aside from the fact that it’s the piano used on almost all my favorite score) is that it’s the only sampled Swedish piano I know of besides the Nordic Upright by Precision Sound, I want more Swedish piano libraries!!


It's only got one dynamic layer, 
but I sampled a Swedish upright piano last year that's available for free HERE.


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## KEM (Jul 9, 2021)

rottoy said:


> It's only got one dynamic layer,
> but I sampled a Swedish upright piano last year that's available for free HERE.



Awesome thank you!! Any plans to sample it in more detail?


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## rottoy (Jul 9, 2021)

KEM said:


> Awesome thank you!! Any plans to sample it in more detail?


I've been thinking about it, yes. I'll keep you folks posted if/when these plans translate into action.


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## FlyingAndi (Jul 9, 2021)

KEM said:


> That actually fixed all the issues I've been having, now I feel like an idiot for not trying that in the first place lol, thank you though!!


See post 78 on the previous page.
@Hans Adamson Do I win a copy of the Malmsjö now?


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## rottoy (Jul 25, 2021)

KEM said:


> Awesome thank you!! Any plans to sample it in more detail?


I have now sampled the upright used in "Rättvik Upright" in more detail.


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## rottoy (Jul 26, 2021)

Any interest in a Swedish piano that sounds like this?
View attachment Reverie Debussy Test.mp3


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## KEM (Jul 26, 2021)

rottoy said:


> Any interest in a Swedish piano that sounds like this?
> View attachment Reverie Debussy Test.mp3


I like the sound of that!!


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## CGR (Jul 26, 2021)

rottoy said:


> Any interest in a Swedish piano that sounds like this?
> View attachment Reverie Debussy Test.mp3


What is this? Really like the sweet tone.


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## rottoy (Jul 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> What is this? Really like the sweet tone.


That is the tentatively titled "Rättvik Upright Redux" sample library that I teased the other day.
Still endlessly polishing it.


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## CGR (Jul 26, 2021)

rottoy said:


> That is the tentatively titled "Rättvik Upright Redux" sample library that I teased the other day.
> Still endlessly polishing it.


Sounding very promising


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## CGR (Mar 17, 2022)

rottoy said:


> The polishing continues to this day, on and off.
> Still not sure whether this is worth releasing.
> What do you folks think about this sound?
> View attachment 72561


Love it! Very authentic tone, and this style of playing is hard to pull off convincingly with sampled pianos. I'd say get it out there!


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## adaagaard (Mar 18, 2022)

rottoy said:


> The polishing continues to this day, on and off.
> Still not sure whether this is worth releasing.
> What do you folks think about this sound?
> View attachment 72586


Beautiful!! I´ll buy it Rättvik is one of my favourites from Pianobook, btw. Any thoughts regarding when (and where) you´re going to release it?


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## rottoy (Mar 20, 2022)

adaagaard said:


> Beautiful!! I´ll buy it Rättvik is one of my favourites from Pianobook, btw. Any thoughts regarding when (and where) you´re going to release it?


I have some thoughts, will let you folks know real soon.


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## rottoy (Apr 12, 2022)

adaagaard said:


> Beautiful!! I´ll buy it Rättvik is one of my favourites from Pianobook, btw. Any thoughts regarding when (and where) you´re going to release it?


It's released! https://vi-control.net/community/threads/eriks-piano.123685/


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## adaagaard (Apr 12, 2022)

rottoy said:


> It's released! https://vi-control.net/community/threads/eriks-piano.123685/


Yes!!! Congratulations on your release! Bought it instantly. Demos sound beautiful. Can`t wait to check it out...


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## rottoy (Apr 12, 2022)

adaagaard said:


> Yes!!! Congratulations on your release! Bought it instantly. Demos sound beautiful. Can`t wait to check it out...


Thank you! Please let me know if you find it useful! (And if you don't, please be gentle with me.)


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