# System upgrade question



## MarcusMaximus (Nov 20, 2017)

I think the time might have come to upgrade my Mac Mini server as I am finding its limitations in handling sampled orchestral material are getting more noticeable and frustrating. It is the 2011 model with a 2.0 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM and two internal 7200 rpm 500 GB HD's. I use the 2nd one for sample streaming. I run Logic 10.3.2 under Sierra.

My options are:

1. Buy a cheap dual CPU Mac Pro 4, 1 and upgrade the firmware to 5, 1 as well as the processors to Xeon 3.46 and RAM to 64. Add an SSD or two for libraries.

2. Buy a cheap and slow 5, 1 and do the same as above (avoids dealing with the lidded vs. unlidded CPU issue but more expensive base machine).

3. Buy a refurbished 5, 1 from the likes of Mac Bank with the right configuration already.

4. Buy or build an i7-based PC slave to use with either VEPro or Reason/ReWire. I wouldn't need the latest and fastest components, just enough to run Hollywood Orchestra and whatever other sample libraries I acquire as time goes on (nothing too massive). I would intend to use the Mini as the master in this scenario.

I'm leaning towards the last option because A. it makes use of what I already own and B. it would probably be the most cost effective. Although I appreciate that the Mac Pros are still excellent and powerful computers I am a little reluctant to spend a lot of money on such an old machine and those refurbished models are quite expensive. Also, given I live in Ireland, importing machines or components from the States which is usually cheaper than Europe generally adds a lot of duty to the overall cost so even the upgrades could end up being quite pricey.

However I am open to being persuaded otherwise. What would people think would be the best of these options in my circumstances? Am I right in thinking that the Mini would be adequate as a master? I write music which is mainly orchestral but with electronic/synth elements as well as recorded guitars. I do not write for film or any other medium, currently anyway. Thanks.


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## Prockamanisc (Nov 20, 2017)

The Mini is fine for the Master, but I would pop in an 850 Pro for the OS drive to squeeze some extra performance out of of it. Past that, I'd build a PC Slave. You can build it once and upgrade it as you need, whether it be more SSDs, more RAM, etc. The Mini Master/PC Slave route is what I've been doing for a few years. Eventually I'm going to get a Mac Pro, most likely the next version they release of it. I'm just going to throw a whole bunch of money at it and just enjoy it for 5-6 years and not have to worry about performance. You can upgrade the Mini to a Pro if you ever feel the need, but the current Minis are terrible.


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## Damarus (Nov 20, 2017)

The CPU on the mini isnt great, but will suffice. A large SSD would give you the most performance boost, at the lowest cost. Ram is maxed on that model, so nothing you can do there. If that does not give you enough performance I would go for the cheap slave option. Ideal situation would be to wait and invest the new line of Mac pro / iMac pro.


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## MarcusMaximus (Nov 20, 2017)

Thanks guys. I've no plans to buy one of the new model Macs - way too expensive when there are plenty of other options that will be more than adequate for my needs. Yes, the CPU and RAM limitations of my Mini are the main problems as I could always go with a thunderbolt SSD for streaming if that was the only issue. Hadn't thought of an SSD for the system drive. I always thought that a HD was adequate for that side of things?

In terms of building the slave, I guess that's a whole other topic and I know there are plenty of threads already to research, here and elsewhere. Wish there was a comprehensive guide somewhere though.. Looking on pcpartpicker for example there are an overwhelming number of possibilities for the components - it's hard to know where to start, though I did build a PC many years ago to Emagic's specifications in order to run Logic so I'm not totally green. Things have of course changed a lot since then!

Edit: Holy moly, I just watched an OWC video on replacing the Mini's HD. Definitely not for the faint of heart! Would only do this if necessary I think.


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## galactic orange (Nov 21, 2017)

MarcusMaximus said:


> Edit: Holy moly, I just watched an OWC video on replacing the Mini's HD. Definitely not for the faint of heart! Would only do this if necessary I think.



Welcome to "waiting for a worthy successor to the Mac Mini for audio use" limbo. 2012 Mac Mini i7 quad-core user here. Purchased new in 2014 the month before the gimped newer Minis were released. Right after I got it I put 16GB RAM and 2 500GB Crucial SSDs in there (with OWC data doubler kit). The drive replacement procedure isn't so bad. Just follow the directions and it will go smoothly. (Yes, you will be sweating profusely for an hour or so, but the result is worth it). SSD as an OS drive is very fast.

Like you, I'm wondering how to upgrade. No great Mac options for audio producers at the moment. A high-powered slave system is the most effective option. I apologize if I'm repeating myself in my responses to several threads (and will continue to do so until a viable option is presented). The older Mac Pros aren't an option for me because of power usage concerns. I want so much to get a low-power, quiet 2013 Mac Pro, but not at those prices for that old technology. Just thinking about setting up a VEPro slave system gives me a headache. But maybe it's the fastest, cheapest, easiest way to get a usable orchestral+ template running.


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## MarcusMaximus (Nov 22, 2017)

Good to know I'm not the only one in this particular limbo! I might undertake that upgrade but again I'm not sure it's all that beneficial for the system drive, though no doubt it would be faster to boot etc. For sample streaming it obviously would be.

I agree, not a great prospect on the newer Macs as they're so overpriced. However I've just been informed by the university where I teach that I can get an 18% discount from CompuB which is an Apple outlet here. I'm definitely going to look into that, especially if they have any good EOL stock however I'm mostly looking into the slave option at the moment. Even to buying a slightly older i7 based machine and upgrading the RAM and adding an SSD. As with you I don't relish the idea of the VEPro setup which does put me off a bit but if that's what it takes.. I have learned elsewhere that running Reaper in Rewire mode is also a very good way to do things.

For the self-build option I might consider an i3-8350K system that forum member chimuelo has recommended a few times. Anyone actually built one of those and can comment on it?


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## MarcusMaximus (Nov 23, 2017)

Still looking at options including already built computers. Any reason not to use a Shuttle brand PC as a slave? I think they're all small form factor. I've come across one that has a tempting spec:

i7-7700K, 32 GB ram, (they're looking into whether the motherboard could take more), 240 SSD, 4 TB HD etc. 

Any thoughts?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 23, 2017)

They look okay, as long as there's an adequate power supply (at least 500W), good cooling, and plenty of slots for internal drives. An i7 will be just fine. What version of Windows do they come loaded with?


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## MarcusMaximus (Nov 23, 2017)

Yes it does have a 500W power supply, Windows 10 Pro and 4 drive bays, two of which will be taken up by the supplied drives. This is despite being very compact SFF. The SSD is actually 480GB, not 240 as they originally said and it can take a max of 64GB ram. I haven't got a final price yet but it looks like it might be quite expensive. Tomorrow I'm also looking at an older i7 based machine for a lot less money into which I would put my own RAM and SSD. The Shuttle might be a little overkill for my needs as it also has 7.1 audio and 4K capabilities, neither of which I need. And a 4TB HD in a slave?! Still, it is quite tempting. Ah, decisions..


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