# Pacific Strings - user demo thread



## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 22, 2022)

As there's a lot of hype around this library and the intro period is quite long I figured it makes sense to have a dedicated thread for user demos so that anyone who has not decided yet has quick access to a bunch of demos. I am downloading the library right now and will make a couple of videos about it and post them here; I hope other early adopters will join me.

I'm also taking video requests, so if there's anything specific you'd like to see/hear, just let me know!


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## Batuer (Dec 22, 2022)

I just purchased and will post one later.
====================
Update 1 (Pacific Strings Legato VS some other libraries):

The Legend of Ashitaka-Pacific
View attachment The Legend of Ashitaka-Pacific.mp3


The Legend of Ashitaka-Vista
View attachment The Legend of Ashitaka-Vista.mp3


The Legend of Ashitaka-VSL SSP
View attachment The Legend of Ashitaka-VSL SSP.mp3


The Legend of Ashitaka-BBC Core
View attachment The Legend of Ashitaka-BBC.mp3


Update 1 Add: The Legend of Ashitaka-CSS
View attachment The Legend of Ashitaka-CSS.mp3




====================
Update 2 (Pacific Strings Short articulations):
Zoosters Breakout-Pacific Strings
View attachment Zoosters_Breakout.mp3


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 22, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> As there's a lot of hype around this library and the intro period is quite long I figured it makes sense to have a dedicated thread for user demos so that anyone who has not decided yet has quick access to a bunch of demos. I am downloading the library right now and will make a couple of videos about it and post them here; I hope other early adopters will join me.
> 
> I'm also taking video requests, so if there's anything specific you'd like to see/hear, just let me know!


Would love some comparisons between other string libraries !


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 22, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Would love some comparisons between other string libraries !


Noted! Comparisons with CSS, HWS and Afflatus coming soon


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 22, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Noted! Comparisons with CSS, HWS and Afflatus coming soon


Do you own any spitfire strings aswell? SSS o SCS or SStS ?


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 22, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Do you own any spitfire strings aswell? SSS o SCS or SStS ?


Unfortunately I don't - SSS has been on my list for quite a while, but other things always seemed more important (or more affordable )


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## Montisquirrel (Dec 22, 2022)

Would love to hear a comparison with Adachi.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 22, 2022)

Montisquirrel said:


> Would love to hear a comparison with Adachi.


I don't have that one, but I'm sure someone else can help out


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 22, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I don't have that one, but I'm sure someone else can help out


I have adachi, TSS, Sprfire studio strings core. I can help out if you want to


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## Gingerbread (Dec 22, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Noted! Comparisons with CSS, HWS and Afflatus coming soon


Here’s a possibility—-any chance you could make it a _blind_ comparison? The human brain is plagued with inherent selection bias when we know which example is which. Why not make it blind, and see if most people pick Pacific as the best, without knowing? That would be a useful thing for people still wondering if they should buy.


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## handz (Dec 22, 2022)

What, it is really out?!? :O


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 22, 2022)

Gingerbread said:


> Here’s a possibility—-any chance you could make it a _blind_ comparison? The human brain is plagued with inherent selection bias when we know which example is which. Why not make it blind, and see if most people pick Pacific as the best, without knowing? That would be a useful thing for people still wondering if they should buy.


I second this!


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 22, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> I have adachi, TSS, Sprfire studio strings core. I can help out if you want to


That would be great - I can post something here and attach the midi and you can render it with your ones! 
@Montisquirrel are there any specific instruments or articulations you'd like us to focus on?



Gingerbread said:


> Here’s a possibility—-any chance you could make it a _blind_ comparison? The human brain is plagued with inherent selection bias when we know which example is which. Why not make it blind, and see if most people pick Pacific as the best, without knowing? That would be a useful thing for people still wondering if they should buy.


Great suggestion, will do!


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## I like music (Dec 22, 2022)

Oh wow! It is released!

Can someone confirm if the March 30th 2023 intro is the same date for *loyalty* discounts? If so, that's a pretty generous period. I don't want to miss out on loyalty pricing and will probably need till March to justify the funds.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 22, 2022)

Pacific strings and harp + CSB solo horn:
View attachment The Force Theme TTS - hbj50 Dec 22 Pacific4-norm.mp3


CSS version is in signature.

With Pacific it sounds much less MIDI-like, I think. More natural.

Strings are just out of the box (but with Close mics panned).
With harp I'm only using the AB mic (so no Close mic) - this is to push it back in the mix.
Nothing's added plug-in-wise except a limiter on the master bus (the stock Cubase one)


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## I like music (Dec 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Strings and harp:
> View attachment The Force Theme TTS - hbj50 Dec 22 Pacific4-norm.mp3
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds really good! Will have to buy the strings based on this alone lol. BTW what horn is that? You did a cracking job with the horn line. CSB?


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## Eptesicus (Dec 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Strings and harp:
> View attachment The Force Theme TTS - hbj50 Dec 22 Pacific4-norm.mp3
> 
> 
> ...



Wonderful.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Strings and harp:
> View attachment The Force Theme TTS - hbj50 Dec 22 Pacific4-norm.mp3
> 
> 
> ...


Brilliant. Thanks for this!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 22, 2022)

I like music said:


> Sounds really good! Will have to buy the strings based on this alone lol. BTW what horn is that? You did a cracking job with the horn line. CSB?


Thank you! Yes, it's the solo horn from CSB with Main mic only.


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## Vik (Dec 22, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I'm also taking video requests, so if there's anything specific you'd like to see/hear, just let me know!


Would be nice to hear each section, one at a time, without any reverb/EQ and no chords – just single notes. Actually, maybe even without the AB microphone. The Blakus live stream was very interesting (check the violas here) – but the bottom line is how controllable the 'room' in all libraries are.


Don't get me wrong, I'm already very impressed!  The 3 violins FFF overlay (one dynamic only!) is also very impressive:


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 22, 2022)

The first video is up, showcasing the Spiccato articulation for all four sections across the entire dynamic range. All patches are using their default settings, there is no external processing going on. I also attached the midi to this post if people want to add renditions with other libraries.



The next one will probably be a demo of the two mic positions that I hope to upload tonight; then I'll move on to legatos tomorrow  


Edit: @Vik I'll have a look at the Blakus video and try to implement your request in the mic positions demo I mentioned


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 22, 2022)

This is from Elfman's Batman (1989):
View attachment Batman 1989 2_forsøg - hbj23 NY_disk_location - 7 - Pacific8 - til Vi Control.mp3


The programming and dynamics in this piece are so-so but the strings still sound super as it is.

Again, nothing added except a limiter on the master bus.
Close mics panned for each patch, otherwise it's Pacific as it comes out of the box.

Edit:
Violins 1:
View attachment Batman Violins 1.mp3


Violins 2 (no V2, so it's just Violins 1 loaded again, then panned as a V2 section):
View attachment Batman Violins 2.mp3


Violas:
View attachment Batman Violas.mp3


Cellos:
View attachment Batman Cellos.mp3


Basses:
View attachment Batman Basses.mp3


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 22, 2022)

D


Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This is from Elfman's Batman (1989):
> View attachment Batman 1989 2_forsøg - hbj23 NY_disk_location - 7 - Pacific8 - til Vi Control.mp3
> 
> 
> ...


Damn sounds so smooth. Just spend some cash on TSS... hmmm. the temptations


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## Enc (Dec 22, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> D
> 
> Damn sounds so smooth. Just spend some cash on TSS... hmmm. the temptations


I did exactly the same and got TSS for 240 €...now I am crying...I am really crying. Already got PES in the cart...maybe I will hit the button before march...actually I will....*sob*


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 22, 2022)

Enc said:


> I did exactly the same and got TSS for 240 €...now I am crying...I am really crying. Already got PES in the cart...maybe I will hit the button before march...actually I will....*sob*


I feel you! <3 Remeber that TSS is a great library  But it is not symphonic hall!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 22, 2022)

Vik said:


> Would be nice to hear each section, one at a time, without any reverb/EQ


I bounced each section separately so you can hear it here:






Pacific Strings - user demo thread


The first video is up, showcasing the Spiccato articulation for all four sections across the entire dynamic range. All patches are using their default settings, there is no external processing going on. I also attached the midi to this post if people want to add renditions with other libraries...




vi-control.net


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 22, 2022)

@Laurin Lenschow Added S7 Big Hall on all these and it is at -6 db in volume on a seperate track that TSS and SStS is being sent to

TSS Spiccato: (Staccatissimo has 5 layers and Spiccato as 3 only) But for the comparison I use Spiccato.

Violins 1:

View attachment Violins TSS Spicc.mp3


Violas:

View attachment Violas TSS Spicc.mp3


Cello

View attachment Cello TSS Spicc.mp3


Basses

View attachment Basses TSS Spicc.mp3


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 22, 2022)

@Laurin Lenschow Spitfire Studio Strings Core 7h reverb also on another track that the strings are being sent into:

Violins:
View attachment Violins SStS Spicc.mp3


Violas
View attachment Violas SStS Spicc.mp3


Cellos
View attachment Cello SStS Spicc.mp3


Basses
View attachment Basses SStS Spicc.mp3


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This is from Elfman's Batman (1989):
> View attachment Batman 1989 2_forsøg - hbj23 NY_disk_location - 7 - Pacific8 - til Vi Control.mp3
> 
> 
> ...


Do you mind sharing the midi for this so I can render other libraries?


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Pacific strings and harp + CSB solo horn:
> View attachment The Force Theme TTS - hbj50 Dec 22 Pacific4-norm.mp3
> 
> 
> ...


Flow/movement sounds great. But it could become so much better with EQ+verb treatment


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This is from Elfman's Batman (1989):
> View attachment Batman 1989 2_forsøg - hbj23 NY_disk_location - 7 - Pacific8 - til Vi Control.mp3
> 
> 
> The programming and dynamics in this piece are so-so but the strings still sound super as it is.


Sounds very promising indeed!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 22, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Do you mind sharing the midi for this so I can render other libraries?


The original MIDI is by George Soulas, then I modified it here and there.
I can't share it but it is available on his Patreon:









George Soulas | creating MIDI Mockups | Patreon


Become a patron of George Soulas today: Get access to exclusive content and experiences on the world’s largest membership platform for artists and creators.




www.patreon.com


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## Evans (Dec 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Pacific strings and harp + CSB solo horn:
> View attachment The Force Theme TTS - hbj50 Dec 22 Pacific4-norm.mp3
> 
> 
> ...


One thing that stands out to me here is that the low dynamics and crossfades are really well done. The soft layer in the trem is wicked.


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## Montisquirrel (Dec 22, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> @Montisquirrel are there any specific instruments or articulations you'd like us to focus on?


Not really. I just want to hear that the difference is not that huge so I don't need to buy Pacific


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## Pontus Rufelt (Dec 22, 2022)

Pardon the sloppy doodling, but quite pleased with Pacific so far. Very smooth sound!
View attachment Untitled1-01.mp3


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This is from Elfman's Batman (1989):
> View attachment Batman 1989 2_forsøg - hbj23 NY_disk_location - 7 - Pacific8 - til Vi Control.mp3
> 
> 
> ...


Listening to them separately I hear some release/legato transition issues. Sounds to me like the cellos first line and violas notes hang for too long over each other. Making it sound like a normal sustain patch and not a legato patch, just me?


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## Eptesicus (Dec 22, 2022)

Pontus Rufelt said:


> Pardon the sloppy doodling, but quite pleased with Pacific so far. Very smooth sound!
> View attachment Untitled1-01.mp3


This is gorgeous.


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## Vlzmusic (Dec 22, 2022)

I am definitely in for the loyalty offer, and for me, the idea of remaking Con Motto into a full fledged library was in the air well before Pacific was announced, but still I wish all this talent JB brought to the table, was somehow integrated into a better hall, better orchestra, and more detailed sound. 

I really wish people stop being so competitive, and start building things together, not just Pasific, but paBiBiC, paBiSic, pAROfic, paHiSic, and so on....


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## Juulu (Dec 22, 2022)

Would anyone mind showing how it handles runs?


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## monochrome (Dec 22, 2022)

Juulu said:


> Would anyone mind showing how it handles runs?


this is quick and sloppy but

View attachment runs.mp3


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## Juulu (Dec 22, 2022)

monochrome said:


> this is quick and sloppy but
> 
> View attachment runs.mp3


Wow thanks! It's actually suprisingly agile.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 22, 2022)

Would it be possible to make this thread for Pacific user demos only and not for demos made with library X, Y and Z?


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## monochrome (Dec 22, 2022)

some slow violins with just close mics 

View attachment close mics vns.mp3


both mics

View attachment both mics vns.mp3


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Would it be possible to make this thread for Pacific user demos only and not for demos made with library X, Y and Z?


I think many of us are curious about how it compares. So why not have both? And as somebody said earlier, a blind test would be very interesting as there is inherent bias (especially for new buyers - understandably!).


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## Eptesicus (Dec 22, 2022)

monochrome said:


> this is quick and sloppy but
> 
> View attachment runs.mp3


That is actually impressive for something that isnt claiming to be/selling itself as an agile/runs type library.


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## RogiervG (Dec 22, 2022)

Is it me, or is it very closely sounding like vista (or even con moto) in the legatos?


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## Eptesicus (Dec 22, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> Is it me, or is it very closely sounding like vista (or even con moto) in the legatos?



I would be surprised if it _didnt_ sound like those.


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## RogiervG (Dec 22, 2022)

Eptesicus said:


> I would be surprised if it _didnt_ sound like those.


You would expect a different character, since it's a different line (and recordings).
Most developers that do multiple string libs, makes sure each sounds unique (it's own character), otherwise the developer is competing to itself with the products.
Not that i don't like the sound i am hearing.. just wondering if my brain plays tricks on me this time.


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## Penthagram (Dec 22, 2022)

A small demo put very quickly together. Just legato patches. Added a piano to create a bit of context.

View attachment Pacific Quick Demo.mp3


The library sounds fantastic. very solid and consistent. Love the short articulations as well


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 22, 2022)

Repurposed something I am working on...Strings all Pacific...
View attachment Moonglow Pacfic.mp3


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 22, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> You would expect a different character, since it's a different line (and recordings).
> Most developers that do multiple string libs, makes sure each sounds unique (it's own character), otherwise the developer is competing to itself with the products.
> Not that i don't like the sound i am hearing.. just wondering if my brain plays tricks on me this time.


Jasper says on the homepage that it's nothing groundbreaking and that it builds on previous experience with Legato:


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 22, 2022)

I'm already tired of listening to the built-in "portamento-like gliding" which comes every now and then.


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## RogiervG (Dec 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I'm already tired of listening to the built-in "portamento-like gliding" which comes every now and then.


hmmm sorry to hear  
luckely there are a gazillion other strings libraries


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## artinro (Dec 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I'm already tired of listening to the built-in "portamento-like gliding" which comes every now and then.


Henrik, one thing I can recommend is to hang out in the CC1= around 70-80 range. The upper dynamics are quite expressive and have occasionally more of the port-light glides. The good news is that since the library is very dynamic, you can hang a bit lower and have fewer of those glides, then adjust the volume to taste of the main patch.


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## NYC Composer (Dec 22, 2022)

The glides aren’t completely controllable? I like them for an occasional moment.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 22, 2022)

artinro said:


> Henrik, one thing I can recommend is to hang out in the CC1= around 70-80 range. The upper dynamics are quite expressive and have occasionally more of the port-light glides. The good news is that since the library is very dynamic, you can hang a bit lower and have fewer of thoshnge glides, then adjust the volume to taste of the main patch.


Thanks, artinro! That sounds good. Looking forward to testing the library in the coming days


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 22, 2022)

NYC Composer said:


> The glides aren’t completely controllable? I like them for an occasional moment.


There are a few ways around that, turn off legato and they become sustains and work quite well or use the marcato patch for more attack. Also Artino above is correct with the middle velocity range you don't get the portamento thing.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I'm already tired of listening to the built-in "portamento-like gliding" which comes every now and then.


Purist!


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## ScarletJerry (Dec 22, 2022)

I would love to hear the exact same legato arrangement performed with Vista, then Pacific. I'm primarily interested in string legatos, so I know that Pacific includes the other articulations (and who am I kidding? I'm probably going to buy Pacific even if it sounds almost the same as Vista).

Scarlet Jerry


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 22, 2022)

Double basses are as agile as I am after a three course meal!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 22, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Listening to them separately I hear some release/legato transition issues. Sounds to me like the cellos first line and violas notes hang for too long over each other. Making it sound like a normal sustain patch and not a legato patch, just me?


There are both Legatos and Sustains in the piece


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## Scamper (Dec 22, 2022)

So, I got Pacific and played a bit around with it. Love it so far!

Between all my favorite string libraries, it has the best of all the worlds. A great hall sound with energy and live, but not as strong as Vista - the right balance to work in most situations.
The playability is nice and consistent and even with full delay settings, it's playable just fine. All the many dynamic layers do make a difference too and it's so well programmed throughout, that it feels just right to play and crossfades are smooth. Feels so expressive!

Every single articulation is well made and the marcato patch is nice and flexible too. I wish the library was a bit more flexible though with a few more shorts like CSS has. Also with some articulations, especially the shorts, it feels like the playing style is a tad hard and aggressive, wheras sometimes, a softer playing would be nice to have.

For me, Pacific doesn't do everything the best, but it's soo good in every regard. I need some more time with it to see, whether it will top CSS for me.


I've integrated Pacific into my string comparisons covering the whole dynamic range. Later, some other demos.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 22, 2022)

Scamper said:


> So, I got Pacific and played a bit around with it. Love it so far!
> 
> Between all my favorite string libraries, it has the best of all the worlds. A great hall sound with energy and live, but not as strong as Vista - the right balance to work in most situations.
> The playability is nice and consistent and even with full delay settings, it's playable just fine. All the many dynamic layers do make a difference too and it's so well programmed throughout, that it feels just right to play and crossfades are smooth. Feels so expressive!
> ...



Thanks a bunch of providing the comparisons! Very helpful.

I don't think Pacific sounds bad in any of these - but I can't say it stands out as head and shoulders above any of the other libraries either.


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## Daren Audio (Dec 22, 2022)

Scamper said:


> So, I got Pacific and played a bit around with it. Love it so far!
> 
> Between all my favorite string libraries, it has the best of all the worlds. A great hall sound with energy and live, but not as strong as Vista - the right balance to work in most situations.
> The playability is nice and consistent and even with full delay settings, it's playable just fine. All the many dynamic layers do make a difference too and it's so well programmed throughout, that it feels just right to play and crossfades are smooth. Feels so expressive!
> ...



Thanks for doing a comparison! Helps me make a more informed buying decision but I'll wait until all the dust settles first.



ALittleNightMusic said:


> Thanks a bunch of providing the comparisons! Very helpful.
> 
> I don't think Pacific sounds bad in any of these - but I can't say it stands out as head and shoulders above any of the other libraries either.


Same assessment here. 
Though, I do hear a tad bit more vibrato in the legatos for CSS, Pacific & Vista which comes down to the actually performing musician. Gives it a slightly different timbre, if one is looking for that. 

Overall, great to have choices.


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## filipjonathan (Dec 22, 2022)

Scamper said:


> So, I got Pacific and played a bit around with it. Love it so far!
> 
> Between all my favorite string libraries, it has the best of all the worlds. A great hall sound with energy and live, but not as strong as Vista - the right balance to work in most situations.
> The playability is nice and consistent and even with full delay settings, it's playable just fine. All the many dynamic layers do make a difference too and it's so well programmed throughout, that it feels just right to play and crossfades are smooth. Feels so expressive!
> ...



Thanks for this comparison! Actually, I'm pretty happy with my SCS and CSS, don't really need Pacific.


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## Eptesicus (Dec 22, 2022)

Scamper said:


> So, I got Pacific and played a bit around with it. Love it so far!
> 
> Between all my favorite string libraries, it has the best of all the worlds. A great hall sound with energy and live, but not as strong as Vista - the right balance to work in most situations.
> The playability is nice and consistent and even with full delay settings, it's playable just fine. All the many dynamic layers do make a difference too and it's so well programmed throughout, that it feels just right to play and crossfades are smooth. Feels so expressive!
> ...




Man, the lushness in Pacific really stands out there in the legato demo.


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## d4vec4rter (Dec 22, 2022)

OK. There'll be plenty of demos of just PS so I thought I'll do something a little different and blend the library with Apassionata Strings on a legato demo provided by Alex of CSS. Only processing is Cinematic Rooms Pro on the mix bus using the appropriately named Legato Hall preset. All sounds very sweet and fluid to me.


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## Scamper (Dec 22, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Thanks a bunch of providing the comparisons! Very helpful.
> 
> I don't think Pacific sounds bad in any of these - but I can't say it stands out as head and shoulders above any of the other libraries either.


Totally, we've got so many great libraries.

SSS/SCS in AIR Lyndhurst is still my favorite for sound and shorts, CSS the best flexibility and so on, but overall, I think Pacific Strings is so solid it's worth it. I think in parts, you can really appreciate it, when you play it and feel how fun and expressive it is.

Here are some more demos for all the different longs (threw in Vista and "mixed" CSS too). Sordinos might me my favorite... Again full dynamic range.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 22, 2022)

Scamper said:


> Totally, we've got so many great libraries.
> 
> SSS/SCS in AIR Lyndhurst is still my favorite for sound and shorts, CSS the best flexibility and so on, but overall, I think Pacific Strings is so solid it's worth it. I think in parts, you can really appreciate it, when you play it and feel how fun and expressive it is.
> 
> Here are some more demos for all the different longs (threw in Vista and "mixed" CSS too). Sordinos might me my favorite... Again full dynamic range.



Mixed CSS sounds great here - what did you do? It also sounds more dynamic to me than Pacific in this example (in the louder range).


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## Lucas Bodenbender (Dec 22, 2022)

Hey guys, I uploaded a first demo with pacific strings. It's not "pacific only" because I want to show it the way I would work with it. But I included the "pacific strings - bus" at the end of the video so that you can hear it on its own.


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## Soundbed (Dec 22, 2022)

I only did two quick little tests ... spiccato step entry and a quick "turgid" legato experiment. sounds exactly as I'd expect; Vista only bigger.

If you think it sounds good, it's the library.
If you don't like them, it's my programming.

There are noise floor WAVs included so you can de-noise yourself if desired.

0:00 Spiccato
0:26 Legato


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## tebling (Dec 22, 2022)

Thanks for the comparison @Scamper, this is very appreciated!

Is it just me or does anyone else find the attack portion of the Pacific samples a bit jarring? I understand the desire to capture the natural start of each note in its entirety, but it feels like the samples "turn on" with such a high level prior to the beat that it pulls the timing ahead.

It's a subtle effect for sure, and I might not noticed it if I hadn't heard the prior performance comparisons (in Scamper's tracks) which served to kind of lock in the timing in my head.


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## tritonely (Dec 22, 2022)

My small try out this evening with a quick arrangement of the intro to one of my favourite songs: Son Lux's Lost It To Trying. Only AB mics, only legato patches (violins 2x in octaves, violas and celli), Seventh Heaven reverb (scoring stage preset).


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## Soundbed (Dec 22, 2022)

tebling said:


> Thanks for the comparison @Scamper, this is very appreciated!
> 
> Is it just me or does anyone else find the attack portion of the Pacific samples a bit jarring? I understand the desire to capture the natural start of each note in its entirety, but it feels like the samples "turn on" with such a high level prior to the beat that it pulls the timing ahead.
> 
> It's a subtle effect for sure, and I might not noticed it if I hadn't heard the prior performance comparisons (in Scamper's tracks) which served to kind of lock in the timing in my head.


Depending on what you're hearing, yes I have often wanted the scripting to have silence for that section they leave at the start of each sample ... it's there for continuity, but does not need to be heard on the first note of a phrase. I mentioned it in my video on Con Moto Violins for Sample Library Review, "back in the day". It's here.


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## Petter Rong (Dec 22, 2022)

Scamper said:


> So, I got Pacific and played a bit around with it. Love it so far!
> 
> Between all my favorite string libraries, it has the best of all the worlds. A great hall sound with energy and live, but not as strong as Vista - the right balance to work in most situations.
> The playability is nice and consistent and even with full delay settings, it's playable just fine. All the many dynamic layers do make a difference too and it's so well programmed throughout, that it feels just right to play and crossfades are smooth. Feels so expressive!
> ...



On the first demo, Pacific took home every award for me. Such a mild tone, while still having some of the detail and all of the expansive and huge wall of sound. But judging by this and other demos, the shorts really do suffer from the performance repetition sampling, way too much pre-transient. You can hear the previous note that was sampled before you hear the one that is actually supposed to be played. Is it possible to edit this without screwing up the delay offsets?


----------



## artinro (Dec 22, 2022)

tebling said:


> Thanks for the comparison @Scamper, this is very appreciated!
> 
> Is it just me or does anyone else find the attack portion of the Pacific samples a bit jarring? I understand the desire to capture the natural start of each note in its entirety, but it feels like the samples "turn on" with such a high level prior to the beat that it pulls the timing ahead.
> 
> It's a subtle effect for sure, and I might not noticed it if I hadn't heard the prior performance comparisons (in Scamper's tracks) which served to kind of lock in the timing in my head.


Just a note that this is adjustable with a great script in all short patches


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## Petter Rong (Dec 22, 2022)

tebling said:


> Thanks for the comparison @Scamper, this is very appreciated!
> 
> Is it just me or does anyone else find the attack portion of the Pacific samples a bit jarring? I understand the desire to capture the natural start of each note in its entirety, but it feels like the samples "turn on" with such a high level prior to the beat that it pulls the timing ahead.
> 
> It's a subtle effect for sure, and I might not noticed it if I hadn't heard the prior performance comparisons (in Scamper's tracks) which served to kind of lock in the timing in my head.


Totally agree with you. You can hear the previous note that was sampled in the repetition sampling.



artinro said:


> Just a note that this is adjustable with a great script in all short patches


Does the script automatically keep the delay offsets the same or will it have to be adjusted for each patch that you put it on?


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## Petter Rong (Dec 22, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> I only did two quick little tests ... spiccato step entry and a quick "turgid" legato experiment. sounds exactly as I'd expect; Vista only bigger.
> 
> If you think it sounds good, it's the library.
> If you don't like them, it's my programming.
> ...



Are the spiccato releases really that abrupt? Sounds like it goes from hero to zero in no time at 0:26...


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## Gerbil (Dec 22, 2022)

It sounds great, especially those whisper strings. Is it actually agile enough to perform more demanding music, like, say, the 1st mov of Prokofiev's Classical Symphony, where the violins are moving rapidly between different articulations?


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## artinro (Dec 22, 2022)

I will put up a quick tutorial on the shorts “pre-roll script” before the night is out. Just give me a bit and I’ll put something together.


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## Petter Rong (Dec 22, 2022)

Gerbil said:


> It sounds great, especially those whisper strings. Is it actually agile enough to perform more demanding music, like, say, the 1st mov of Prokofiev's Classical Symphony, where the violins are moving rapidly between different articulations?


Also wondering about that. There was a run demo in this thread (I've linked below) and I think it actually sounds quite bad. Especially the long runs at the end sounds very artificial. But it's possible it could be due to the programming 🤷‍♂️


monochrome said:


> this is quick and sloppy but
> 
> View attachment runs.mp3


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## webs (Dec 22, 2022)

Sounds quite nice and thanks everyone for the demos... these really help. 

Initial thoughts are more around pricing. It seems a worthy library for those who get the loyalty intro price. I feel less comfortable about it at the regular intro ask price.


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## Lucas Bodenbender (Dec 22, 2022)

Okay, I had to do this... This comparison is not about the dynamics or the programming at all as I did that in a hurry. I just want to show the tonal quality of the library. The first one is Pacific and the second one is (obviously) the original.


View attachment Pacific Strings_Binary Sunset.mp3


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 22, 2022)

A quick demo of the mic positions for all sections using the Pizzicato articulation. All sections are playing the same midi (just transposed down an octave for each new section) and there is no external processing going on. 



Working on a video with exposed legato phrases right now, and legato comparisons with other libraries will follow shortly after. Speaking of comparisons, here's the midi file used in this video:


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## artinro (Dec 22, 2022)

artinro said:


> I will put up a quick tutorial on the shorts “pre-roll script” before the night is out. Just give me a bit and I’ll put something together.


Ok, folks so here's a quick tutorial with audio examples of the script. 

See the screenshot of the GUI below. The area of interest here is in the orange rectangle. The patches open in default PLBK locked mode and Jasper set the PLBK mode to the FULL preroll by default. The LV (or "live") mode is set to -50 by default (a nice compromise), though you can go as low as -20 for super tight shorts. What I would recommend doing is first, click on where it says PLBK lock and engage the PLBK mode. Give it a quick play and adjust the numbers to a point where YOU feel there's a sweet-spot between the wonderful realism the -100 default gives (especially for repeated phrases) and your preferred tightness. Then engage LV mode and bring that number to the tightest level you'd like without affecting your sense of the recorded performance. Now you have custom levels for both LV and PLBK. You can switch between them with ease using CC14.

In the audio examples I am posting below, you'll hear me switching between PLBK mode at -100 and LV mode at -20 (the extremes for both) using CC14. Then you'll hear a second example where I've moved both PLBK and LV to -50 just to show they are identical there. CC14 will make no difference. See my screenshots and listen to the audio. I would recommend experimenting with each of the short patches and dial in the numbers for both modes that will make you happy!


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## SammyBrown (Dec 22, 2022)

artinro said:


> Ok, folks so here's a quick tutorial with audio examples of the script.
> 
> See the screenshot of the GUI below. The area of interest here is in the orange rectangle. The patches open in default PLBK locked mode and Jasper set the PLBK mode to the FULL preroll by default. The LV (or "live") mode is set to -50 by default (a nice compromise), though you can go as low as -20 for super tight shorts. What I would recommend doing is first, click on where it says PLBK lock and engage the PLBK mode. Give it a quick play and adjust the numbers to a point where YOU feel there's a sweet-spot between the wonderful realism the -100 default gives (especially for repeated phrases) and your preferred tightness. Then engage LV mode and bring that number to the tightest level you'd like without affecting your sense of the recorded performance. Now you have custom levels for both LV and PLBK. You can switch between them with ease using CC14.
> 
> In the audio examples I am posting below, you'll hear me switching between PLBK mode at -100 and LV mode at -20 (the extremes for both) using CC14. Then you'll hear a second example where I've moved both PLBK and LV to -50 just to show they are identical there. CC14 will make no difference. See my screenshots and listen to the audio. I would recommend experimenting with each of the short patches and dial in the numbers for both modes that will make you happy!


thanks! i was a little confused what LV and PLBK meant, but live and playback makes a lot of sense. Its a great feature but ill probably just get used to the predelay tbh


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## Dan (Dec 22, 2022)

I am very impressed... I have never owned a string library that could make a musical passage like this sound so vibrant:

View attachment Brahms 1 Finale Pacific.mp3

from Brahms' 1st Symphony, unprocessed sound


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## JF (Dec 22, 2022)

Dan said:


> I am very impressed... I have never owned a string library that could make a musical passage like this sound so vibrant:
> 
> View attachment Brahms 1 Finale Pacific.mp3
> 
> from Brahms' 1st Symphony, unprocessed sound


Dan,
You are far more skilled than me. 
However, I'll raise you a WIP selection of Mahler's 1st Symphony, 4th mov. (Pacific--unprocessed)


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## Juulu (Dec 22, 2022)

Anybody mind mocking something from this midi using the marcato articulations?


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## CT (Dec 22, 2022)

Dan said:


> I am very impressed... I have never owned a string library that could make a musical passage like this sound so vibrant:
> 
> View attachment Brahms 1 Finale Pacific.mp3
> 
> from Brahms' 1st Symphony, unprocessed sound


Really nice!


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## moon (Dec 22, 2022)

I just want to thank everyone in this thread for helping me save some money!


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## Lord Daknight (Dec 22, 2022)

Let's get some Marcato demos! I still need to financially recover from the Japanese Vocal Synth rabbit hole till I can get Pacific


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## Simon Passmore (Dec 22, 2022)

Do we know if Vista will come down in price now that Pacific is out?


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## HarmonKard (Dec 22, 2022)

Juulu said:


> Anybody mind mocking something from this midi using the marcato articulations?


Which part (channel)?


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 22, 2022)

My test from tonight:
Library is excellent, but I'm getting haunted by click sounds in some transitions.


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## ScarletJerry (Dec 22, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> I only did two quick little tests ... spiccato step entry and a quick "turgid" legato experiment. sounds exactly as I'd expect; Vista only bigger.
> 
> If you think it sounds good, it's the library.
> If you don't like them, it's my programming.
> ...





NeonMediaKJT said:


> My test from tonight:
> Library is excellent, but I'm getting haunted by click sounds in some transitions.



That was beautiful! What choir library are did you use? I really liked it.

Scarlet Jerry


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 22, 2022)

Beethoven’s 5th Symphony sitting over here waiting for a marcato demo (I’m busy). Someone do it!

I’ll get on that Tchaikovsky 5th symphony second movement mock-up asap tho. I’ve been dying to try that!!!


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 22, 2022)

ScarletJerry said:


> That was beautiful! What choir library are did you use? I really liked it.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


That is metropolis ark 😊


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## ScarletJerry (Dec 22, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> That is metropolis ark 😊


Ah! Is it the women's choir from Ark 1 or a different one?


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 22, 2022)

ScarletJerry said:


> Ah! Is it the women's choir from Ark 1 or a different one?


The one from met ark 1 😊


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## ScarletJerry (Dec 22, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> The one from met ark 1 😊


Thanks!


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## Juulu (Dec 22, 2022)

HarmonKard said:


> Which part (channel)?


I just realized the midi for the entire project was in that file 😅 🤦🏾


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## Juulu (Dec 22, 2022)

Here is the correct midi for the part. I combined all of the sections together so maybe a test run with the tutti marcato patch?


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## Uncle Ed (Dec 22, 2022)

Lucas Bodenbender said:


> Hey guys, I uploaded a first demo with pacific strings. It's not "pacific only" because I want to show it the way I would work with it. But I included the "pacific strings - bus" at the end of the video so that you can hear it on its own.



In the middle of many of these half-baked mediocre "sloppy" tests, your demo stands out. It's not only beautiful, it demonstrates what one can achieve with proper orchestration and dynamics. Thank you for sharing.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 22, 2022)

So, first glitch I've found...in the cello whisper sustains I'm getting these weird pops/glitch artifacts in the low dynamics in the upper register...


View attachment cello whispers weird noise .mp3


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## DJiLAND (Dec 22, 2022)

View attachment Meldelssohn_Midsummer.mp3


Here's a mockup I did for the short and marcato tests.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 22, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> View attachment Meldelssohn_Midsummer.mp3
> 
> 
> Here's a mockup I did for the short and marcato tests.


DAMN sounds goooooood! Nice writing


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 22, 2022)

Lucas Bodenbender said:


> Okay, I had to do this... This comparison is not about the dynamics or the programming at all as I did that in a hurry. I just want to show the tonal quality of the library. The first one is Pacific and the second one is (obviously) the original.
> 
> 
> View attachment Pacific Strings_Binary Sunset.mp3


Wow!


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## CT (Dec 22, 2022)

Since the first thing I did with the alpha last year was that raucous test for the spiccato and marcato patches using the same piece, I figured this excerpt was a nice compliment to it. 

I have never been able to get fake strings to manage this passage in a way that wasn't at least moderately clumsy and ugly.

View attachment pacbee.mp3


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 22, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> View attachment Meldelssohn_Midsummer.mp3
> 
> 
> Here's a mockup I did for the short and marcato tests.


Damn. This sounds so good!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 22, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> View attachment Meldelssohn_Midsummer.mp3
> 
> 
> Here's a mockup I did for the short and marcato tests.


Stellar. I’d love to see somebody attempt with another library (maybe VSL?), but I am skeptical it could sound this good.

What piece is this btw?


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## WhiteNoiz (Dec 22, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> A quick demo of the mic positions for all sections using the Pizzicato articulation.


Would probably be better to have it quantized and maybe play with the offsets. (And see how consistent it is for all RRs/dynamics)


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## Jeremy B. (Dec 22, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> What piece is this btw?


This is the overture to A Midsummer Night's Dream by Mendelssohn (who was 17 years old at the time).


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## I like music (Dec 22, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> My test from tonight:
> Library is excellent, but I'm getting haunted by click sounds in some transitions.



Nice work! What brass was that out of interest?


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## Pontus Rufelt (Dec 23, 2022)

This is definitely turning out to be one of the more fun libraries to write with this year. The sustain repetitions in particular sound excellent, and it is pretty easy to work with overall. I feel like few libraries have this smooth of a symphonic sound. Sharing another little doodle with some liberal stealing from newton howard (Sidenote: I’m not even moving the mod wheel on the violins and viola here)
View attachment Pacific.mp3


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## HelloGoodbye (Dec 23, 2022)

Would anyone be willing to do a comparison between pacific and BSS? I‘m looking for a symphonic string library to go with Tom Holkenberg brass and love the sound of BSS, but pacific seems great too.. it’s a tough call!


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## Lucas Bodenbender (Dec 23, 2022)

Uncle Ed said:


> In the middle of many of these half-baked mediocre "sloppy" tests, your demo stands out. It's not only beautiful, it demonstrates what one can achieve with proper orchestration and dynamics. Thank you for sharing.


Thank you. I'm glad you like it


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## Eptesicus (Dec 23, 2022)

It really does have a lovely lush/thick symphonic sound.


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## OleJoergensen (Dec 23, 2022)

Scamper said:


> So, I got Pacific and played a bit around with it. Love it so far!
> 
> Between all my favorite string libraries, it has the best of all the worlds. A great hall sound with energy and live, but not as strong as Vista - the right balance to work in most situations.
> The playability is nice and consistent and even with full delay settings, it's playable just fine. All the many dynamic layers do make a difference too and it's so well programmed throughout, that it feels just right to play and crossfades are smooth. Feels so expressive!
> ...



I think al your string examples here sounds good!
Thank you for sharing.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 23, 2022)

WhiteNoiz said:


> Would probably be better to have it quantized and maybe play with the offsets. (And see how consistent it is for all RRs/dynamics)


Thanks for the feedback! I chose not to quantize it because Pizzicatos in real life are always quite loose, but you are right, a quantized one would provide information you can't get from this one. I'll make something later today


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 23, 2022)

I like music said:


> Nice work! What brass was that out of interest?


Infinite 😊


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## WhiteNoiz (Dec 23, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Pizzicatos in real life are always quite loose


True. And I like loose pizzes (the pick-up/pre-roll movement before the pluck). Just not too erratically off-beat. I mean, if quantized, you can see the actual attack of the samples and how consistently timed/cut they are and how consistently the offsets work and if they translate across the range and layers. More of a technical, quality of life thing.


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## Steve Hicks (Dec 23, 2022)

Lucas Bodenbender said:


> Okay, I had to do this... This comparison is not about the dynamics or the programming at all as I did that in a hurry. I just want to show the tonal quality of the library. The first one is Pacific and the second one is (obviously) the original.
> 
> 
> View attachment Pacific Strings_Binary Sunset.mp3


Now THIS is annoyingly good. Annoying in that I wasn't totally convinced I needed another strings until I heard this...


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## Henu (Dec 23, 2022)

Thanks a fucking bunch guys, you just made my SSS completely redundant and it also cost me 250 dollars. >.<


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## I like music (Dec 23, 2022)

Lucas Bodenbender said:


> Okay, I had to do this... This comparison is not about the dynamics or the programming at all as I did that in a hurry. I just want to show the tonal quality of the library. The first one is Pacific and the second one is (obviously) the original.
> 
> 
> View attachment Pacific Strings_Binary Sunset.mp3


Is the sound out of the box here?! Or did you go matching it with the original?


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## AndyP (Dec 23, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> Is it me, or is it very closely sounding like vista (or even con moto) in the legatos?


They are already similar, although I sometimes prefer Con Moto to Pacific and Vista. Con Moto sounds more realistic to me in context, especially at high dynamic, because less slur.
For a lot of romatic and emotion, however, I find Pacific and Vista better. 
In any case, they all harmonize very well sonically. If only there was a patch where you could switch between them via keyswitch ...

I have to see how I can create such a patch in Cubase. I haven't done that yet, especially since I usually use one track per articulation.


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## Lucas Bodenbender (Dec 23, 2022)

Steve Hicks said:


> Now THIS is annoyingly good. Annoying in that I wasn't totally convinced I needed another strings until I heard this...





I like music said:


> Is the sound out of the box here?! Or did you go matching it with the original?


Its just the close mics and some very subtle eq too boost the high frequencies and lower some of the lows. And on top of that some preamp gain. But it's basically out of the box. I've waited a long time for a library that has that romantic vintage closed miced - but also big tone. I think i found it. I still need to explore more of the legato thought. Iam not shure about the random portamento-ish notes. I wish you could control them


----------



## Eptesicus (Dec 23, 2022)

Lucas Bodenbender said:


> Okay, I had to do this... This comparison is not about the dynamics or the programming at all as I did that in a hurry. I just want to show the tonal quality of the library. The first one is Pacific and the second one is (obviously) the original.
> 
> 
> View attachment Pacific Strings_Binary Sunset.mp3



Nice


----------



## handz (Dec 23, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> I feel you! <3 Remeber that TSS is a great library  But it is not symphonic hall!


Never really got what people find appealing about this lib, I would rather take NSS any


Lucas Bodenbender said:


> Its just the close mics and some very subtle eq too boost the high frequencies and lower some of the lows. And on top of that some preamp gain. But it's basically out of the box. I've waited a long time for a library that has that romantic vintage closed miced - but also big tone. I think i found it. I still need to explore more of the legato thought. Iam not shure about the random portamento-ish notes. I wish you could control them


This is the exact opposite of "out of the box" for me )). 

but heck, it sounds amazing.


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## Lucas Bodenbender (Dec 23, 2022)

handz said:


> Never really got what people find appealing about this lib, I would rather take NSS any
> 
> This is the exact opposite of "out of the box" for me )).
> 
> but heck, it sounds amazing.


Well, i guess you are right that it's not literally "out of the box" but the difference between no processing and processing is so subtle that it sounds like out of the box )


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## I like music (Dec 23, 2022)

Lucas Bodenbender said:


> Its just the close mics and some very subtle eq too boost the high frequencies and lower some of the lows. And on top of that some preamp gain. But it's basically out of the box. I've waited a long time for a library that has that romantic vintage closed miced - but also big tone. I think i found it. I still need to explore more of the legato thought. Iam not shure about the random portamento-ish notes. I wish you could control them


Thanks a ton for the info! My only concern is those transitions which are quite slurry, at the highest dynamics. Wish they were controllable! All good though. Probably end up buying it regardless.


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## Lucas Bodenbender (Dec 23, 2022)

I like music said:


> Thanks a ton for the info! My only concern is those transitions which are quite slurry, at the highest dynamics. Wish they were controllable! All good though. Probably end up buying it regardless.


Yes, i have the same concern. I hope i can find a workaround for that. The slides limitate you quite a lot in your writing. And if they are used too prominent they loose their effect and become annoying.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 23, 2022)

Here's a video with both a slow and a more agile legato line, played by all four sections without external processing:



...and here's the quantized Pizzicato demo @WhiteNoiz requested:


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## xanderscores (Dec 23, 2022)

Wow, this thread is already exploding. 
Nevertheless, here's a quick mockup of *Jerry Goldsmith's Mummy Love Theme *with Pacific Strings using mainly monophonic legato lines.

I included a version without any fx, and one where I considerably boosted the highs. 
I also did a few glissandos with the harp.

I think, for something like 15 minutes work and just playing along, it's not bad, which speaks more for Pacific than for me I guess.  Most playable library that I have, very organic sounding, very easy to get decent results in no time.


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## Soundbed (Dec 23, 2022)

Petter Rong said:


> Are the spiccato releases really that abrupt? Sounds like it goes from hero to zero in no time at 0:26...


That’s exactly what they sound like, yes (allowing for YouTube compression!)…


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## C-Land (Dec 23, 2022)

For a little xmas-feel here's some bars of an arrangement I did this summer for a Christmas album, one of my favourite German Christmas carols that relies heavily on note repetition. 

- First Pacific only, completely out of the box, 
- Second with a touch of Cinematic Rooms and a bit of Gulfoss on the master, plus with the choir added (Freya and Wotan). I left out the solo voice as I couldn't find a solo vocal lib that did repeated notes in a satisfying way.

Pacific is extremely playable, sounds awesome and that dynamic range is really impressive. Very happy customer!


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 23, 2022)

This one was requested in the YouTube comments - a short look at how well the library handles dynamic crossfades. In this video you can hear all four section each playing one note for all of their sustain types (legato/normal, sordino and whisper sustains) with the modwheel going from 0 to 127 in a straight line. Admittedly not the most exciting watch, but hopefully informative


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## Scamper (Dec 23, 2022)

Another quick demo with Pacific.
It's a transcription practice I've done with my CSS template and I rerecorded the MIDI for Pacific. Closely matching dynamics is always a struggle for me, so the expressiveness of Pacific might have suffered a bit.
That's all I managed with the time I had, so keep in mind that Pacific could be better. Just wanted to see how it sounds before I'm off to christmas.

Again, a version with Pacific and CSS. If you're looking for the juicy string tutti, you can listen from a minute into the track.









ALittleNightMusic said:


> Mixed CSS sounds great here - what did you do? It also sounds more dynamic to me than Pacific in this example (in the louder range).


I really didn't do much to CSS so far. It's layered with CSSS, I carved out some mids and boosted some highs and then slapped on Cinematic Rooms. It's all WIP since I'm working on my new CSS template, so I need to tweak a bunch more till I'm happy with it.


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## RMH (Dec 23, 2022)

Scamper said:


> So, I got Pacific and played a bit around with it. Love it so far!
> 
> Between all my favorite string libraries, it has the best of all the worlds. A great hall sound with energy and live, but not as strong as Vista - the right balance to work in most situations.
> The playability is nice and consistent and even with full delay settings, it's playable just fine. All the many dynamic layers do make a difference too and it's so well programmed throughout, that it feels just right to play and crossfades are smooth. Feels so expressive!
> ...



Oh, I love this demonstration.

It's especially impressive in Legato.

The BBC and the CSS are very similar.
Can you tell me which mic you set for each?

The Pacific Ocean is very Grandioso. It's richer than SSS.


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## NoamL (Dec 23, 2022)

A very silly speedwrite with the spiccatos.... 

in which James Bond tries to catch a train:
View attachment Bond Catches The Train.mp3


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 23, 2022)

NoamL said:


> A very silly speedwrite with the spiccatos....
> 
> in which James Bond tries to catch a train:
> View attachment Bond Catches The Train.mp3


The first 11 seconds tells me Pacific Strings will work well for Lord of the Rings mock-ups too!

Edit: Actually the whole thing  Gives me LOTR vibes!


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## Leandro Gardini (Dec 23, 2022)

Pacific Strings by Performance Samples Play Dumbar Theme by John Barry (Dance with Wolves)


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Dec 23, 2022)

Batuer said:


> I just purchased and will post one later.
> ====================
> Update 1:
> 
> ...


My favourites: SSP, BBCSO, Pacific, Vista

Wow! Synchron Strings Pro all the way. The most convincing and realistic to me. Pacific unfortunately very "synthy" with all these slurs. And that's also the problem with all the other demos here. People, do you really love this? No real string section does sound like this. It's warm no question, and this is what people likely want to have, but the legatos don't convince me. :D

Don't want to derail the thread, but may I ask what microphones you used and which articulations for the slurs (portamentos, slurred legato) for SSP?


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## RogiervG (Dec 23, 2022)

the more demos i hear, some pattern is noticable: very upfront slurred legatos with many portamentos , like it's a portamento oriented library  )
Also it is very noisy too in many demos, in contrast to other libraries. And the high strings sound very ear piercingly sharp, like it is a completely different string section recording with completely different mics (or JB forgot to tame them down a notch in frequencies)

I find it sounding alive, like a real performance, but if the portamento like effects would be lesser in times it's audible throughout the pieces it would benefit the realism even more imho. i don't need to hear it in almost every few notes played..  

For now, i am on the fence with this library... buy or not buy


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## Steve Hicks (Dec 23, 2022)

I've been "working on" a mock up of the start of Jedi Fallen Order off and on for a little while. 
Just swapped in Pacific Strings. 
It is NOT polished (pretty much just swapped CSS for Pacific) but just for more context: 

View attachment Cal Cestis.mp3


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## Andrajas (Dec 23, 2022)

a very short and easy test. The harp is really nice addition
View attachment pacific quick test.mp3


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## AndyP (Dec 23, 2022)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> My favourites: SSP, BBCSO, Pacific, Vista
> 
> Wow! Synchron Strings Pro all the way. The most convincing and realistic to me. Pacific unfortunately very "synthy" with all these slurs. And that's also the problem with all the other demos here. People, do you really love this? No real string section does sound like this. It's warm no question, and this is what people likely want to have, but the legatos don't convince me. :D
> 
> Don't want to derail the thread, but may I ask what microphones you used and which articulations for the slurs (portamentos, slurred legato) for SSP?


Because of that I use Con Moto in addition! Way more realistic for a certain style of writing.
Otherwise Pacific and Vista have a sweet spot I can't get from my other libraries. I need to find a way to switch between these in one Cubase Instrument. But I don't know how ... still testing.


----------



## sundrowned (Dec 23, 2022)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> People, do you really love this?


I'm not sure I like any of those. They all have problems and need more work.


----------



## FireGS (Dec 23, 2022)

View attachment ImmolationMixdown(7).mp3

Immolation Scene from Revenge of the Sith.

There's a real problem I've run into -- if I want to use a legato interval to note, finish said note and start a new bow stroke, I get a very audible stop/gap. Kind of annoying, so there might be a lot of slurs in this, more than I wanted. Not sure how to feel about that. Anyway, this is as much of a test as I'm gonna do -- I know exactly where this library fits for me


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 23, 2022)

So putting it to use right away on a commission/project I'm working on. Kind of a glam rock album 'fake motion picture soundtrack'.
I decided to try and layer Pacific with Vista to add a little more definition and love the results.

Here you'll hear it in context with the track, and then the strings by themselves.

Cheers!

(never mind me ripping off Scott walker with my voice ;| ) 

View attachment Pacific:Vista full context .mp3




View attachment Pacific:Vista Naked .mp3


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## Denkii (Dec 23, 2022)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> My favourites: SSP, BBCSO, Pacific, Vista
> 
> Wow! Synchron Strings Pro all the way. The most convincing and realistic to me. Pacific unfortunately very "synthy" with all these slurs. And that's also the problem with all the other demos here. People, do you really love this? No real string section does sound like this. It's warm no question, and this is what people likely want to have, but the legatos don't convince me. :D
> 
> Don't want to derail the thread, but may I ask what microphones you used and which articulations for the slurs (portamentos, slurred legato) for SSP?


With the libraries used here, I am with you. In this exact order.


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## mussnig (Dec 23, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> This one was requested in the YouTube comments - a short look at how well the library handles dynamic crossfades. In this video you can hear all four section each playing one note for all of their sustain types (legato/normal, sordino and whisper sustains) with the modwheel going from 0 to 127 in a straight line. Admittedly not the most exciting watch, but hopefully informative



Hmm. Some resonance around 0:22/0:23. Also the legato sustains in the basses were not as smooth as the others and sounded a bit wobbly (probably the movement). Overall I like the tone though.


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## mussnig (Dec 23, 2022)

FireGS said:


> View attachment ImmolationMixdown(7).mp3
> 
> Immolation Scene from Revenge of the Sith.
> 
> There's a real problem I've run into -- if I want to use a legato interval to note, finish said note and start a new bow stroke, I get a very audible stop/gap. Kind of annoying, so there might be a lot of slurs in this, more than I wanted. Not sure how to feel about that. Anyway, this is as much of a test as I'm gonna do -- I know exactly where this library fits for me


Yes, the amount of slurrs is the only thing that holds me a bit back. But on the other hand, this library is probably not suited for every type of music. Still sounds quite alive to me.


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## NoamL (Dec 23, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> The first 11 seconds tells me Pacific Strings will work well for Lord of the Rings mock-ups too!
> 
> Edit: Actually the whole thing  Gives me LOTR vibes!


Heh. Howard Shore does like that orchestration trick of reinforcing the low strings with piano.


Steve Hicks said:


> I've been "working on" a mock up of the start of Jedi Fallen Order off and on for a little while.
> Just swapped in Pacific Strings.
> It is NOT polished (pretty much just swapped CSS for Pacific) but just for more context:
> 
> View attachment Cal Cestis.mp3


Killer stuff. The cellos could be a bit lower velocity so they don't go into the "string snap sound" range. The short-articulation decay knob is powerful too...



FireGS said:


> View attachment ImmolationMixdown(7).mp3
> 
> Immolation Scene from Revenge of the Sith.
> 
> There's a real problem I've run into -- if I want to use a legato interval to note, finish said note and start a new bow stroke, I get a very audible stop/gap. Kind of annoying, so there might be a lot of slurs in this, more than I wanted. Not sure how to feel about that. Anyway, this is as much of a test as I'm gonna do -- I know exactly where this library fits for me


The rebows are just better here than ANYTHING else commercially available. Like this is 10/10, and CSS is an 8, and I've not heard any other library do better than a 4....

The library is so emotionally communicative at _mf_ too, you don't necessarily have to go up into the higher dynamics to get the intensity. I wonder if dipping down the dynamic right at the transition point will help avoid the portamentos as well or if that will sound un-natural.


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## I like music (Dec 23, 2022)

NoamL said:


> I wonder if dipping down the dynamic right at the transition point will help avoid the portamentos as well or if that will sound un-natural.


Would love to hear if someone has examples where they've tried this, and how they felt about it.


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## Scamper (Dec 23, 2022)

RMH said:


> The BBC and the CSS are very similar.
> Can you tell me which mic you set for each?
> 
> The Pacific Ocean is very Grandioso. It's richer than SSS.


For the demos, I'm usually using the close and tree mics. So close+tree for Pacific, Vista, SCS, SSS. Since I only have BBCSO Core, it's Mix 1 and for CSS, I'm using the mix too.


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## tmhuud (Dec 23, 2022)

NoamL said:


> The rebows are just better here than ANYTHING else commercially available.


This ^


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## ltmusic (Dec 23, 2022)

Is it possible to play legato without portamento ?


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## Tekkera (Dec 23, 2022)

ltmusic said:


> Is it possible to play legato without portamento ?


lower dyns


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## HarmonKard (Dec 23, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> I only did two quick little tests ... spiccato step entry and a quick "turgid" legato experiment. sounds exactly as I'd expect; Vista only bigger.
> 
> If you think it sounds good, it's the library.
> If you don't like them, it's my programming.
> ...



You can tidy up those shorts in the beginning by putting the patch in TM mode and setting the speed to about 133%



Scamper said:


>



Same goes for you!


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## HarmonKard (Dec 23, 2022)

A little low strings test. 4 samples, low dyn, mid, then high, followed by Albion ONE Low Str Octaves for comparison.

Also, some high trems, second pass is with "2nd violins" (trans. trick)


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## RMH (Dec 23, 2022)

Scamper said:


> For the demos, I'm usually using the close and tree mics. So close+tree for Pacific, Vista, SCS, SSS. Since I only have BBCSO Core, it's Mix 1 and for CSS, I'm using the mix too.


Thank you!


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## muk (Dec 24, 2022)

If anybody is interested in a comparison with Cinematic Studio Strings, I made a mockup of the John Dumbar theme a few years ago:


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## José Herring (Dec 24, 2022)

muk said:


> If anybody is interested in a comparison with Cinematic Studio Strings, I made a mockup of the John Dumbar theme a few years ago:



Great job. This is literally the first time I've heard CSS and thought that I need this library. Expanding the high end air really open this sound up.


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## GregStuckey (Dec 24, 2022)

I like music said:


> Would love to hear if someone has examples where they've tried this, and how they felt about it.


Very quick test (Slur, fake BC, then close only fake BC). But JB recorded Con moto or NSS for this purpose too.


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## axb312 (Dec 24, 2022)

Scamper said:


> Another quick demo with Pacific.
> It's a transcription practice I've done with my CSS template and I rerecorded the MIDI for Pacific. Closely matching dynamics is always a struggle for me, so the expressiveness of Pacific might have suffered a bit.
> That's all I managed with the time I had, so keep in mind that Pacific could be better. Just wanted to see how it sounds before I'm off to christmas.
> 
> ...



For some reason I prefer CSS here. Good work as always!


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## I like music (Dec 24, 2022)

GregStuckey said:


> Very quick test (Slur, fake BC, then close only fake BC). But JB recorded Con moto or NSS for this purpose too.



Thank you! Mind me asking how you achieved the fake bc? Is that through a quick cc1 dip before the transition or something else? Sorry, being dim right now!


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## muk (Dec 24, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Great job. This is literally the first time I've heard CSS and thought that I need this library. Expanding the high end air really open this sound up.


Thanks José. This was done way before the 1.7 update which changed the sound of the library. My setup has changed since then. On CSS 1.7 I use the exciter much more sparsely since it is brighter out of the box. But I agree, with an exciter you can open up the sound of CSS. I usually use Clariphonic for that these days.


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## davidson (Dec 24, 2022)

Has anyone run a side-by-side with any of the fluid shorts libraries yet? Is it able to replace either of those libraries?


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## Denkii (Dec 24, 2022)

Would one of the early adopters be willing to post a pacific demo of Rue's farewell?
That would be much appreciated.


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## GregStuckey (Dec 24, 2022)

I like music said:


> Thank you! Mind me asking how you achieved the fake bc? Is that through a quick cc1 dip before the transition or something else? Sorry, being dim right now!


Just disable legato, and play with note overlap length and the release sample dial. Best to set up CCs to automate them. I did this lots with vista and it seems to be far less fuss with pacific actually.


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## I like music (Dec 24, 2022)

GregStuckey said:


> Just disable legato, and play with note overlap length and the release sample dial. Best to set up CCs to automate them. I did this lots with vista and it seems to be far less fuss with pacific actually.


Nice trick. Didn't even realise they were sustains basically! Once I buy it I'll try it!


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## Batuer (Dec 24, 2022)

Zoosters Breakout - Pacific Strings

View attachment Zoosters_Breakout.mp3


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## Jorgakis (Dec 24, 2022)

Batuer said:


> I just purchased and will post one later.
> ====================
> Update 1:
> 
> ...


Great idea using this track, because it seems to be doable with current libraries, yet it’s rather tricky to get it right imo.
Did a further comparison using Con Moto, CSS and Berlin Strings if anyone is interested. Sorry for sloppiness


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 24, 2022)

Jorgakis said:


> Great idea using this track, because it seems to be doable with current libraries, yet it’s rather tricky to get it right imo.
> Did a further comparison using Con Moto, CSS and Berlin Strings if anyone is interested. Sorry for sloppiness



Did you use the different CSS legato speeds? Even still, I think CSS handled this passage best, especially the faster parts. Berlin also did ok. Con Moto sounded really bad in the faster passages IMO.


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## ka00 (Dec 24, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Here's a video with both a slow and a more agile legato line, played by all four sections without external processing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...and here's the quantized Pizzicato demo @WhiteNoiz requested:



Those squeaky glitches on the violins are surprising to hear. Hopefully those will meet Jasper’s threshold of artifacts he decides are worth cleaning up in an update. I swear, I’m not a purist!


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## NoamL (Dec 24, 2022)

I'm warming up to this harp after a bad first impression.

More notes are better, because it helps hide the pre-roll. If you write "harpish" parts it's quite good.

View attachment Gulfoss stop clickig.mp3



It is not good for Michael Giacchino _LOST_ type parts (whole notes with vast spaces in between).

EDIT: here's what it sounds like if you tame down the pre-roll milliseconds in the settings page. A little better for this passage, perhaps 

View attachment Pacific Harp - Less PreRing.mp3


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 24, 2022)

NoamL said:


> I'm warming up to this harp after a bad first impression.
> 
> More notes are better, because it helps hide the pre-roll. If you write "harpish" parts it's quite good.
> 
> ...


The greatest plus for me personally with Pacific is that it sounds good without having to use EQ or reverb (IMO).

Your harp part reminded me of that


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## monochrome (Dec 24, 2022)

Denkii said:


> Would one of the early adopters be willing to post a pacific demo of Rue's farewell?
> That would be much appreciated.


i don't know exactly how it goes so there's prob wrong and missing notes but the idea should be there

strings no fx:

View attachment rues farewell ps test.mp3


strings + some brass and fx:

View attachment rues farewell ps test brass.mp3


my opinion with this library is that the tone is so so good, but the constant port is so annoying and i keep noticing that i'm trying to _convince_ myself that it's not an issue. I also experimented with using the keyswitches to turn off the legato on some notes, but at least in reaper it's very buggy and seems like the switch wasn't intended to be used on and off within phrases, it's more of a leave on one setting thing.


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## GregStuckey (Dec 24, 2022)

I like music said:


> Nice trick. Didn't even realise they were sustains basically! Once I buy it I'll try it!


Yep! Because the sustains have so much movement they flow very well on their own. You can also layer spics and marcatos to enhance the ‘bowing’


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## HarmonKard (Dec 24, 2022)

And some spics:
View attachment spic1.mp3


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 24, 2022)

monochrome said:


> i don't know exactly how it goes so there's prob wrong and missing notes but the idea should be there
> 
> strings no fx:
> 
> ...


Those strings are realllllly slurring 😳 does the CC1 level or velocity change anything?


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## sound team apk (Dec 24, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Those strings are realllllly slurring 😳 does the CC1 level or velocity change anything?


The slurs become most noticeable in the top third of the dynamics, but ... yeah. One will have to be careful up there.


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## novaburst (Dec 24, 2022)

Batuer said:


> I just purchased and will post one later.
> ====================
> Update 1:
> 
> ...


Good examples i did feel Vista was stumbling over midi note placement, Pacific sound like it was in the zone, very nice

BBC Core i was very surprised at how good they sounded


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## Denkii (Dec 24, 2022)

monochrome said:


> i don't know exactly how it goes so there's prob wrong and missing notes but the idea should be there
> 
> strings no fx:
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this.
Lovely warm tone. The portamento is way, way too much for me (especially to be considered a workhorse). Even if you can work your way around that, I wouldn't want to constantly fight against it but instead trigger it when I tell it to, not beg it not to do it every time.

Glad we have some time. I'll wait and see what people cook up with this one before I decide.


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## I like music (Dec 24, 2022)

Ahhh so close yet so far! I'm surprised by this portamento/slur thing. Clearly a design choice, but not one that I expected. 

Were it not for this, I'd have bought already. I feel like having control over it is critical... 

Keen to hear people's feelings on it once they've had it a few weeks!


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## Stevie (Dec 24, 2022)

I actually thought that Vista had the perfect balance of port/leg. It would always sound great when choosing smaller/greater intervals. I wonder why this was changed with Pacific.


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## GregStuckey (Dec 24, 2022)

There is far more tweaking that could be done but for now this will do as a test. cc1 at 127 for the most exaggerated difference btw. It's also a phrase that does not favour the slurred articulation


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## NoamL (Dec 24, 2022)

Great comparison @GregStuckey ... how are you achieving the "real BC samples"? Non-overlapping sustains with sustain pedal at 0?


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 24, 2022)

GregStuckey said:


> There is far more tweaking that could be done but for now this will do as a test. cc1 at 127 for the most exaggerated difference btw. It's also a phrase that does not favour the slurred articulation



How did you achieve this?


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 24, 2022)

In lost; got sick so haven’t been here much. What are the ‘real bc samples’?


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## Vlzmusic (Dec 24, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> In lost; got sick so haven’t been here much. What are the ‘real bc samples’?


 Prior to release, JB showed some same note repetitions demos, maybe these techniques could be used in bc situations? I don't know what went into the repeated notes, maybe just the regular sustains.. but still, could be useful.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 24, 2022)

What does bc stand for in this context?


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## borisb2 (Dec 24, 2022)

monochrome said:


> i don't know exactly how it goes so there's prob wrong and missing notes but the idea should be there
> 
> strings no fx:
> 
> ...


And there is really no way to mc-gyver around those portamentos?? .. oh dear


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## Dr.Quest (Dec 24, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> What does bc stand for in this context?


I believe it means Bow Change.


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## Kony (Dec 24, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Great comparison @GregStuckey ... how are you achieving the "real BC samples"? Non-overlapping sustains with sustain pedal at 0?


The sustain trigger for bc works in both legato and non-legato modes.


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## Jorgakis (Dec 25, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Did you use the different CSS legato speeds? Even still, I think CSS handled this passage best, especially the faster parts. Berlin also did ok. Con Moto sounded really bad in the faster passages IMO.


Yes, but definitely needs more tweaking. Did this super out of the box, super fast, because I wanted to see how well Con Moto would hold up in comparison to pacific(Imo CM can be king in some situations). But yeah, it didn’t quiet do it. Still not sold on Pacific though, although it sounds great


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## Sovereign (Dec 25, 2022)

Jorgakis said:


> Great idea using this track, because it seems to be doable with current libraries, yet it’s rather tricky to get it right imo.
> Did a further comparison using Con Moto, CSS and Berlin Strings if anyone is interested. Sorry for sloppiness



Seems not score accurate to me, some notes are off. 

This is one of my favorite Ghibli themes. I took a stab at this myself with CSS, did a fairly complete mockup for those particular bars. I'll try later with Pacific too, but I fear (as others have commented) that it cannot get as 'tender' as CSS. The lower Pacific dynamics are still rather 'intense'.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 25, 2022)

Sovereign said:


> Seems not score accurate to me, some notes are off.
> 
> This is one of my favorite Ghibli themes. I took a stab at this myself with CSS, did a fairly complete mockup for those particular bars. I'll try later with Pacific too, but I fear (as others have commented) that it cannot get as 'tender' as CSS. The lower Pacific dynamics are still rather 'intense'.


Is this CSS 1.5 or the new noise-reduced 1.7.1?

Sounds like 1.5 to me.


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## RogiervG (Dec 25, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Is this CSS 1.5 or the new noise-reduced 1.7.1?
> 
> Sounds like 1.5 to me.


got the same feeling, listening


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## Sovereign (Dec 25, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Is this CSS 1.5 or the new noise-reduced 1.7.1?
> 
> Sounds like 1.5 to me.





RogiervG said:


> got the same feeling, listening


This is 1.7.1. No reason to use 1.5. 😆


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## RogiervG (Dec 25, 2022)

Sovereign said:


> This is 1.7.1. No reason to use 1.5. 😆


well.. my ears must be playing tricks on me


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## GregStuckey (Dec 25, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Great comparison @GregStuckey ... how are you achieving the "real BC samples"? Non-overlapping sustains with sustain pedal at 0?


These are actually the NSS transitions with the Pacific sustain samples (I'm also trying Con Moto). Was curious if anyone thought they sounded obviously out of place without knowing where they came from! I think the results sounded better than I expected them to actually.


NoamL said:


> I'm warming up to this harp after a bad first impression.
> 
> More notes are better, because it helps hide the pre-roll. If you write "harpish" parts it's quite good.
> 
> ...


I'm really liking the harp. Ofcourse the prenote is a bit weird in some contexts, but the tone is incredible and it just sounds alive!


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## Sovereign (Dec 25, 2022)

GregStuckey said:


> These are actually the NSS transitions with the Pacific sustain samples (I'm also trying Con Moto). Was curious if anyone thought they sounded obviously out of place without knowing where they came from! I think the results sounded better than I expected them to actually.


Figured that might work, had the same idea but not gotten around to trying it yet. Which mics from NSS in particular did you use? One would really want to be able to switch from slurred to bow change on the fly, not sure if that can be additionally scripted.


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## NoamL (Dec 25, 2022)

GregStuckey said:


> These are actually the NSS transitions with the Pacific sustain samples (I'm also trying Con Moto). Was curious if anyone thought they sounded obviously out of place without knowing where they came from! I think the results sounded better than I expected them to actually.


It works well!


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## ibanez1 (Dec 25, 2022)

Sovereign said:


> Figured that might work, had the same idea but not gotten around to trying it yet. Which mics from NSS in particular did you use? One would really want to be able to switch from slurred to bow change on the fly, not sure if that can be additionally scripted.


Perhaps one could take the bones of the Adachi script that @Sarah Mancuso put together and make a Pacific / NSS hybrid legato patch.


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## GregStuckey (Dec 25, 2022)

Sovereign said:


> Figured that might work, had the same idea but not gotten around to trying it yet. Which mics from NSS in particular did you use? One would really want to be able to switch from slurred to bow change on the fly, not sure if that can be additionally scripted.


Close and Wide for the Violins. They were each eq’d a bit too to match the warmer sound of Pac + some reverb. The legatos are very quick to XFade back which is why I think the absence of big hall sound isn’t as obvious on the transitions as I expected. Atm they don’t follow the same dynamic curve so moving the mod wheel loses the balance, but that is possible to fix fairly easily. 

Yes I think so. It’s possible using midi channels could work to change bc to slur?


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## Juulu (Dec 25, 2022)

Sovereign said:


> Seems not score accurate to me, some notes are off.
> 
> This is one of my favorite Ghibli themes. I took a stab at this myself with CSS, did a fairly complete mockup for those particular bars. I'll try later with Pacific too, but I fear (as others have commented) that it cannot get as 'tender' as CSS. The lower Pacific dynamics are still rather 'intense'.


Are you using a custom mic setup here or the default mix? Noticed it doesn't sound as forward as I'm used to. Great mockup btw, would love to hear the strings naked.


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## cbpress (Dec 25, 2022)

GregStuckey said:


> These are actually the NSS transitions with the Pacific sustain samples (I'm also trying Con Moto). Was curious if anyone thought they sounded obviously out of place without knowing where they came from! I think the results sounded better than I expected them to actually.
> 
> I'm really liking the harp. Ofcourse the prenote is a bit weird in some contexts, but the tone is incredible and it just sounds alive!


I was quite impressed by the NSS transitions in your test. I own that library, but I have no idea how to do this type of legato replacement. Is it a complicated process? Any resources I can reference for trying this out myself?


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## GregStuckey (Dec 25, 2022)

cbpress said:


> I was quite impressed by the NSS transitions in your test. I own that library, but I have no idea how to do this type of legato replacement. Is it a complicated process? Any resources I can reference for trying this out myself?


Well the test you heard was fairly simple - it’s a case of isolating the Legato samples of NSS and muting the Legato samples of Pacific under the hood of kontakt. Because they’re both made by JB they worked effortlessly together (samples from another dev would be much more work). And then matching each mic signal. But as I mentioned, getting one dynamic right is easy, but getting them to match across each CC position will require some work. Then there’s the problem that same-note rebowing doesn’t work currently, and wanting to switch between the two legato modes will probably involve far more work. I’m not really sure of any resources to learn it, you sort have to just dive in and experiment a bit to learn what each controls do and decipher how that particular nki is constructed. If you’re ever unsure then give the KSP manual a read.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 25, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> well.. my ears must be playing tricks on me


Same here, oh well.


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## Dan (Dec 25, 2022)

Here's Pacific Strings in a full orchestra playing that magical tune from the second movement of Rachmaninoff's second symphony:


View attachment Rachmaninoff 2 Pacific.mp3


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## José Herring (Dec 25, 2022)

Dan said:


> Here's Pacific Strings in a full orchestra playing that magical tune from the second movement of Rachmaninoff's second symphony:
> 
> 
> View attachment Rachmaninoff 2 Pacific.mp3


That's incredible. People are complaining about the "portamento" but really it's just expressivo style playing suitable for late romantic music and traditional film scoring. Great job.

btw what woodwinds did you use?


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## Dan (Dec 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> That's incredible. People are complaining about the "portamento" but really it's just expressivo style playing suitable for late romantic music and traditional film scoring. Great job.
> 
> btw what woodwinds did you use?


Thanks! The woodwinds are a mix of Cinematic Studio Woodwinds (flutes, oboes, clarinets + bass clarinet) and OT Berlin Orchestra (bassoons).

EDIT: Actually the clarinets are from VSL Synchronized Woodwinds. I remembered it incorrectly.


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## tmhuud (Dec 25, 2022)

José Herring said:


> That's incredible. People are complaining about the "portamento" but really it's just expressivo style playing suitable for late romantic music and traditional film scoring. Great job.
> 
> btw what woodwinds did you use?


Yep. I think it's great. Porto works wonderful here. Nice work.


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## Honko (Dec 25, 2022)

Is the Marcato attack affected by cc1? Or is it just the "long" samples that has dynamics?


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 25, 2022)

Dan said:


> Here's Pacific Strings in a full orchestra playing that magical tune from the second movement of Rachmaninoff's second symphony:
> 
> 
> View attachment Rachmaninoff 2 Pacific.mp3


That sounds really fantastic - and great choice of music too! I'm totally in love with this piece ever since I watched "Birdman or (The unexpected virtue or Ignorance)" 
(Didn't know it prior to that - but it's also one of my all-time favourite movies now, so...)


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## Nicola74 (Dec 25, 2022)

Here is a very short piece with Pacific Strings, just legato. I didn't tweak anything at all, just dynamics with breath controller one section after the other with no metronome, 2nd vlns with the trasposition trick, a little bit of pan and Cinematic Rooms (scoring hall if I remember correctly) as reverb.
For me the sound is superb, I still have to learn how to use this library, but my first impression is that it sounds simply right out of the box, very musical and consistent.
I like the slur between the notes, if I need another kind of legato I will use another kind of library.
View attachment Prova Pacific Strings mp3.mp3


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## CT (Dec 25, 2022)

This is definitely a stylized legato, with real attitude and personality. In certain registers/dynamic ranges, it will not always be a suitable fit.

However... when this style _does_ fit, I believe the results are peerless among current options, by a significant margin.

Without looking back, I am paring the strings in my template down to this library and Appassionata/what we have of Abbey Road. Other developers have their work cut out for them to meet the standard that these recent libraries set. It's not 2012 anymore.


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## ibanez1 (Dec 25, 2022)

CT said:


> This is definitely a stylized legato, with real attitude and personality. In certain registers/dynamic ranges, it will not always be a suitable fit.
> 
> However... when this style _does_ fit, I believe the results are peerless among current options, by a significant margin.
> 
> Without looking back, I am paring the strings in my template down to this library and Appassionata/what we have of Abbey Road. Other developers have their work cut out for them to meet the standard that these recent libraries set. It's not 2012 anymore.


Yeah I was playing around with the legato today and it just sounds so good for expressive lines. I think I understand the complaints of others as far as lack of control for legato type but if you're ok with the specific flavor it offers, it's a step above a lot of libraries in liveliness and character.

I'm just going to try to write with it primarily for a while with NSS as a half-ensemble / alternate legato option. 

Also, the marcato, spiccato, and whisper sustains are all huge highlights of the library.


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## novaburst (Dec 25, 2022)

CT said:


> This is definitely a stylized legato, with real attitude and personality. In certain registers/dynamic ranges, it will not always be a suitable fit.
> 
> However... when this style _does_ fit, I believe the results are peerless among current options, by a significant margin.


Totally agree with this not sure if there will be a string library that will fit all types of music, and playing preference


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 25, 2022)

ibanez1 said:


> Yeah I was playing around with the legato today and it just sounds so good for expressive lines. I think I understand the complaints of others as far as lack of control for legato type but if you're ok with the specific flavor it offers, it's a step above a lot of libraries in liveliness and character.


Do you happen to have CSS or Vista? Curious to hear comparisons for expressive legato lines if so (since those seem to be the historical favorites of those lines). Or Appassionata.


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## ibanez1 (Dec 25, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Do you happen to have CSS or Vista? Curious to hear comparisons for expressive legato lines if so (since those seem to be the historical favorites of those lines). Or Appassionata.


Unfortunately no to all 3 . Funny you mention it as I was holding off on all of them for Pacific. I have Areia, Anthology/Adachi, NSS, and Soaring Strings for legato comparison. I feel like we need a legato gauntlet thread separate from this one where we take the same midi and put it through all of the main string libraries.


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## Stevie (Dec 26, 2022)

As I already mentioned earlier: the way Vista handles the legato is pretty perfect IMO: e.g. shorter intervals don’t get a portamento. Only higher intervals do. I wonder why this hasn’t been taken over from Vista.


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 26, 2022)

monochrome said:


> i don't know exactly how it goes so there's prob wrong and missing notes but the idea should be there
> 
> strings no fx:
> 
> ...


Very nice! I agree that the portamento could be a problem. BUT wouldn't it be possible, knowing that the library isn't locked for changes in Kontakt, to improve this e.g. by setting a later sample start for the legato samples or something? Or is this thing relying so much on scripting that you can't change that effectively just by adjusting sample start (or timestretching them shorter) for the legato intervals?


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## OleJoergensen (Dec 26, 2022)

Nicola74 said:


> Here is a very short piece with Pacific Strings, just legato. I didn't tweak anything at all, just dynamics with breath controller one section after the other with no metronome, 2nd vlns with the trasposition trick, a little bit of pan and Cinematic Rooms (scoring hall if I remember correctly) as reverb.
> For me the sound is superb, I still have to learn how to use this library, but my first impression is that it sounds simply right out of the box, very musical and consistent.
> I like the slur between the notes, if I need another kind of legato I will use another kind of library.
> View attachment Prova Pacific Strings mp3.mp3


Sounds lovely! Thank you for sharing.


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## novaburst (Dec 26, 2022)

Stevie said:


> As I already mentioned earlier: the way Vista handles the legato is pretty perfect IMO: e.g. shorter intervals don’t get a portamento. Only higher intervals do. I wonder why this hasn’t been taken over from Vista.


There is a lot of why and why nots, but when you consider how long it took to develop this library you would have thought it would fit your every legato needs 

turning 6 violins around a corner (Vista) is fare more simple than turning 16 violins around a corner (Pacific)

I mean i could be wrong because i am no expert

But i would have thought the smaller number of violins 6 in number would be more nimble and more capable of doing difficult fast lines.

The time taken to develop Pacific would surly be to make the huge library work in terms of playability

and the best form of legato is the one that came with this library, (expressive)

The big problem is when users make comparisons with a smaller foot print library in terms of instruments and think Pacific should be doing or performing in the same way, (playability)

So some users are really trying to fit a circle into a square and a square into a circle, it just wont work and never will 

The library is the best string library to date because it comes with that incredible tone and liveliness.

And as you can hear from some of the demoes it plays and sounds incredible,

Some are making comparisons with CSS as if they want to replace CSS, but i would say use CCS for what its good for and use Pacific for what its good for


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## Sovereign (Dec 26, 2022)

GregStuckey said:


> Close and Wide for the Violins. They were each eq’d a bit too to match the warmer sound of Pac + some reverb. The legatos are very quick to XFade back which is why I think the absence of big hall sound isn’t as obvious on the transitions as I expected. Atm they don’t follow the same dynamic curve so moving the mod wheel loses the balance, but that is possible to fix fairly easily.
> 
> Yes I think so. It’s possible using midi channels could work to change bc to slur?


I was thinking more along the lines of a single integrated patch, by copying the relevant NSS groups or zones into Pacific. However, since the script is locked I have no idea if it is possible to add a secondary script and how that interacts with the locked one. I'm not a scripting expert. Ideally, you'd for example mute either the slurred or bowed intervals based on a key switch.


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## Stevie (Dec 26, 2022)

Concerning the port: I'm not at the DAW right now, so I couldn't play around with Pacific a bit more.
But what I'm doing right now is watching Blakus' video and he explains very well how to handle the legato/port. It's actually a guide. Watch from here:


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## Corda1983 (Dec 26, 2022)

I feel like Pacific has expressive legato at lower dynamics, and it’s only at the top 20-30% dynamic range you get a more pronounced slur/portamento sound. At the lower dynamic range it sounds pretty good to me… it’s slightly more expressive/slurred than other libraries but very playable/musical. And there’s a lot of dynamic layers in that library so you don’t need to be playing in the top quarter of the range much - that’s really reserved for extreme lyrical lines. Most of the time 40-60% will cut through and be plenty loud/present even in the upper dynamic range.

Another thing is that legato can get lost pretty easy in denser orchestration I find. So if Pacific is part of a series it’s probably designed to work alongside the eventual other sections. When everything is playing, you need a slightly more pronounced legato to really hear the smooth, silky characteristics of strings playing in that flowing, legato style.


I think it’s been well put together but maybe a slightly different approach to what we’re used to. I think it’s possible to get buttery, softer legato but you have to be much lower down the dynamic range than you normally would be with most other peer libraries. At that upper level, it offers a portamento/legato style that no other library does, but you have to really reserve that for the right moments - and it would usually be tutti sections.


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## Vik (Dec 26, 2022)

Stevie said:


> Concerning the port: I'm not at the DAW right now, so I couldn't play around with Pacific a bit more.
> But what I'm doing right now is watching Blakus' video and he explains very well how to handle the legato/port. It's actually a guide. Watch from here:


Thanks for posting a link to that particular part of the clip, Stevie - I was planning to go through the video again and find it (or, actually, the viola part follwoing it).

There may be some quirks in that library, but the good stuff is so brilliant that it will serve as a reference for other developers for quite some time.


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## Stevie (Dec 26, 2022)

I think the library is more complex than it looks at first sight.
We actually need to learn it (maybe more than other libs) in order to take fully advatage of its strengths.


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## sound team apk (Dec 26, 2022)

Not that my opinion is important, but I've made some short comments about being "careful" with the top 30% and want to clarify my overall impression. I won't repeat what others have said, but what's important is how the library sounds when you use it. Jasper was clearly not optimizing his programming for completely exposed a16 lines at ff. 

After tossing it into even a sloppy mockup of my own and hearing some of the mocks posted here, like @CT I just spent the last few days rebuilding my "large hall" template around Pacific. Despite my preference for less slurred legato.


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## Vik (Dec 26, 2022)

Stevie said:


> I think the library is more complex than it looks on first sight.


Maybe, but from what I've read so far, some people find it difficult to make Pacific play some simple/plain notes (since portamento is triggered) – usually it's the other way round. It wouldn't be difficult to add some more plain notes (no portamento/glissando etc) into a library like this, but from a users perspective, its impossible to add these 'semi-portamentos' if they don't exist in a library.

If the problem is that it's too easy to play the portamento-triggering high velocities, maybe a DAW setting like this (with a negative real time velocity offset) would solve the problem:






Btw, I like that portamentos are triggered at high velocities; triggering them at low velocities is a mistake IMO, since when playing slowly it's easy to add some delay, and portamento also adds some delay. Adding portamento also ads some intensity to a phrase, and keyboard players are used to play a note fast (@high velocity) to add intensity.

Blakus also deserves a special thanks for demoing the violas in the special viola range (which violins don't have), from C2 to F#2. And for someone like me, who have a special affection for violas and also for F#: hearing a viola playing around the deepest F# on viola is particularly enjoyable when it is sampled the way it is in Pacific (check from around 20:40). Too many demos and walkthroughs avoid the special viola range when the demonstrate that instrument – while Blakus is emphasizing it.


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## novaburst (Dec 26, 2022)

Corda1983 said:


> I think it’s been well put together but maybe a slightly different approach to what we’re used to. I think it’s possible to get buttery, softer legato but you have to be much lower down the dynamic range than you normally would be with most other peer libraries. At that upper level, it offers a portamento/legato style that no other library does, but you have to really reserve that for the right moments - and it would usually be tutti sections.


This means that the legato is controllable contrary to some users belief

Blakus does add some revelation about the library



Stevie said:


> I think the library is more complex than it looks on first sight.
> We actually need to learn it (maybe more than other libs) in order to take fully advatage of its strengths.


this is very true


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## FabIV (Dec 26, 2022)

Batuer said:


> I just purchased and will post one later.
> ====================
> Update 1:
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, for this, do you mind sharing the midi? There is something I would love to check with SSP


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## Corda1983 (Dec 26, 2022)

novaburst said:


> This means that the legato is controllable contrary to some users belief
> 
> Blakus does add some revelation about the library
> 
> ...


Yeah - I think dynamics are much more important in what transition is triggered than the velocity. That’s very different to most other libraries.

I think the top 20-30% dynamic range in this library is really reserved for quite particular passages of music - it’s not just a typical ff. This library at 60-70% is what most other libraries get to at 80-90%.


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## FireGS (Dec 26, 2022)

Stevie said:


> As I already mentioned earlier: the way Vista handles the legato is pretty perfect IMO: e.g. shorter intervals don’t get a portamento. Only higher intervals do. I wonder why this hasn’t been taken over from Vista.


I wish the shorter intervals _did_ have more slur. Sometimes thats really needed.


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## NoamL (Dec 26, 2022)

CT said:


> Without looking back, I am paring the strings in my template down to this library and Appassionata/what we have of Abbey Road. Other developers have their work cut out for them to meet the standard that these recent libraries set. It's not 2012 anymore.


Same here except Pacific + CSS.

here is Pacific with no FX, except I have applied Blakus 's EQ & panning ideas.

View attachment Resistance March CC1 working right.mp3



Thanks to @Lawson. for the idea.. This uses *ONLY* the velocity controlled marcatos, and the CC1-controlled marcatos for a few long notes.

*EDIT:* old version the CC1 marcatos weren't triggering properly. Uploaded a fix.

I like the result... When you get forensic about this library, it is not hard to find flaws... but when you use it to _play music._..


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 26, 2022)

Dan said:


> Here's Pacific Strings in a full orchestra playing that magical tune from the second movement of Rachmaninoff's second symphony:
> 
> 
> View attachment Rachmaninoff 2 Pacific.mp3


Would you be willing to share your MIDI file for this btw? Maybe some of us could run it through other libraries to compare.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 26, 2022)

NoamL said:


> When you get forensic about this library, it is not hard to find flaws... but when you use it to _play music._..


I think people are comparing Pacific to other string libraries out of curiosity to explore it’s similarities and differences. It’s not about finding flaws


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## Marcel (Dec 26, 2022)

Dan said:


> Here's Pacific Strings in a full orchestra playing that magical tune from the second movement of Rachmaninoff's second symphony:
> 
> 
> View attachment Rachmaninoff 2 Pacific.mp3


Try movement 4 next


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## Casiquire (Dec 26, 2022)

GregStuckey said:


> There is far more tweaking that could be done but for now this will do as a test. cc1 at 127 for the most exaggerated difference btw. It's also a phrase that does not favour the slurred articulation



Dang having the choice between those two transitions extraordinarily expands what Pacific is capable of


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## Gingerbread (Dec 26, 2022)

Nicola74 said:


> Here is a very short piece with Pacific Strings, just legato. I didn't tweak anything at all, just dynamics with breath controller one section after the other with no metronome, 2nd vlns with the trasposition trick, a little bit of pan and Cinematic Rooms (scoring hall if I remember correctly) as reverb.
> For me the sound is superb, I still have to learn how to use this library, but my first impression is that it sounds simply right out of the box, very musical and consistent.
> I like the slur between the notes, if I need another kind of legato I will use another kind of library.
> View attachment Prova Pacific Strings mp3.mp3


That sounds exquisite! Just wondering, is that your own composition?


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 26, 2022)

I think people are overthinking the legatos here. Thank God for user's demo that show how great they can be. And i feel it's just the beginning... Personally, if i were looking for flaws I'd be more disspointed by the fact there are no none performnance arts like stac or spics etc that i feel could have been useful. But i can't complain for the price. No way I'll be able to resist at this price.


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## josephwmorgan (Dec 26, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Same here except Pacific + CSS.
> 
> here is Pacific with no FX, except I have applied Blakus 's EQ & panning ideas.
> 
> ...


also going to move to Pacific + CSS as well


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## Nicola74 (Dec 26, 2022)

Gingerbread said:


> That sounds exquisite! Just wondering, is that your own composition?


Yes it is, I'm glad you like the music


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## mussnig (Dec 26, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Same here except Pacific + CSS.
> 
> here is Pacific with no FX, except I have applied Blakus 's EQ & panning ideas.
> 
> ...


Sounds great for only using one type of articulation.

I have two questions though:
1. Are those Marcato patches as playable as one would expect from Jasper, i.e. like Oceania?
2. So there is the option to use velocity or CC1 to control the dynamics?


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## TWY (Dec 26, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> View attachment Meldelssohn_Midsummer.mp3
> 
> 
> Here's a mockup I did for the short and marcato tests.


Daaamn!
Did you have to use any keyswitching for this, or does the library allow you to just play it out naturally?


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## AndyP (Dec 27, 2022)

mussnig said:


> Sounds great for only using one type of articulation.
> 
> I have two questions though:
> 1. Are those Marcato patches as playable as one would expect from Jasper, i.e. like Oceania?
> 2. So there is the option to use velocity or CC1 to control the dynamics?


Yes and yes.


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## Lord Daknight (Dec 27, 2022)

GregStuckey said:


> Very quick test (Slur, fake BC, then close only fake BC). But JB recorded Con moto or NSS for this purpose too.



Those first three notes made me think it was gonna be Jupiter bringer of Jollity. Someone do that one too please!


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## mussnig (Dec 27, 2022)

AndyP said:


> Yes and yes.


Great to hear that, thank you! That's actually one of the things I'm looking forward to the most with this library.


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## DJiLAND (Dec 27, 2022)

TWY said:


> Daaamn!
> Did you have to use any keyswitching for this, or does the library allow you to just play it out naturally?


Pacific has no keyswitching between articulations, so I created a track for each patch


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## TWY (Dec 27, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> Pacific has no keyswitching between articulations, so I created a track for each patch


Ahhh okay. So looks like business per usual for me. But that only shows how good you are at triggering which notes of the score to each patch. Hats off to you! 

I only wish such a performance can be played simply by fingers, and that's it. But oh well....


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## DJiLAND (Dec 27, 2022)

View attachment Rachmaninoff Picano Concerto 2.mp3


I tested out how Pacific would blend into the mix.
I had an idea before I started that it would do Rachmaninoff well 🥰


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## ridgero (Dec 27, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> View attachment Rachmaninoff Picano Concerto 2.mp3
> 
> 
> I tested out how Pacific would blend into the mix.
> I had an idea before I started that it would do Rachmaninoff well 🥰


Love it


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## Batuer (Dec 27, 2022)

FabIV said:


> Thank you so much, for this, do you mind sharing the midi? There is something I would love to check with SSP


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## Soundbed (Dec 27, 2022)

Honko said:


> Is the Marcato attack affected by cc1? Or is it just the "long" samples that has dynamics?


I’m not in the studio but when I was watching the Blakus video he showed a switch to change from velocity to CC1 mod wheel, on the settings page. I think it was the marcato patch iirc.


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## Soundbed (Dec 27, 2022)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> if i were looking for flaws I'd be more disspointed by the fact there are no none performnance arts like stac or spics etc that i feel could have been useful.


There are spiccato arts. The marcato is variable, and Blakus demonstrates how he uses the marcato patch for a staccato-like sound, which is why he finds the lack of staccato fine… the marcato patch does the job of staccato and other longer shorts (I’m paraphrasing of course).


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## Living Fossil (Dec 27, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Same here except Pacific + CSS.
> 
> here is Pacific with no FX, except I have applied Blakus 's EQ & panning ideas.
> 
> View attachment Resistance March CC1 working right.mp3


Hi @NoamL , would you mind posting this passage without the EQ?
My guess is that maybe there is some frequency content missing that sets off the balance in sound.
(I already had this impression yersterday but was unsure [tired ears]. Since I think the same today I'd be really interested in hearing the same passage without EQ)


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## Dan (Dec 27, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Would you be willing to share your MIDI file for this btw? Maybe some of us could run it through other libraries to compare.



Sure. In the post below this one you will find a midi file for the string parts + audio of the woodwinds and brass.

Inspired by your request, I decided to just go ahead and start a comparison myself. In each version the strings are completely unprocessed (including without additional reverb) to give an impression of how each library sounds out of the box. CC data was edited for each library to create the best possible sound in the given time.


Pacific Strings (with some tiny corrections compared to the last audio):
View attachment PS Pacific Strings.mp3


Cinematic Studio Strings:
View attachment Cinematic Studio Strings.mp3


East West Hollywood Strings (old Play version):
View attachment Hollywood Strings.mp3


Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings:
View attachment OT Berlin Strings.mp3


Orchestral Tools Berlin Symphonic Strings:
View attachment OT Berlin Symphonic Strings.mp3


Spitfire Appassionata Strings:
View attachment Spitfire Appassionata Strings.mp3


Spitfire BBCSO Strings:
View attachment Spitfire BBCSO Strings.mp3


More in the next post.


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## Dan (Dec 27, 2022)

Spitfire Symphonic Strings (Performance Legato):
View attachment Spitfire Symphonic Strings Performance Legato.mp3


Impact Soundworks Tokyo Scoring Strings:
View attachment Tokyo Scoring Strings.mp3


VSL Synchron Elite Strings:
View attachment VSL Synchron Elite Strings.mp3


8DIO Anthology Strings (provided by @ummon):
View attachment 8DIO Anthology.mp3


Performance Samples Vista (provided by @oxo, copy/paste only, no custom CC)
View attachment Performance Samples Vista.mp3




Strings midi file + woodwind/brass audio below.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 27, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> There are spiccato arts. The marcato is variable, and Blakus demonstrates how he uses the marcato patch for a staccato-like sound, which is why he finds the lack of staccato fine… the marcato patch does the job of staccato and other longer shorts (I’m paraphrasing of course).


I'm aware of that and i agree that the marcato seems to do stacc well. But the spiccato are derived from performance and those are perfect for repetition/ostinato type of phrase, infact they're the best for that imo. Same for the marcato. I just wished there would be a few clean standard shorts notes that were not derived from performance. But I'm aware he's just one guy and you can't have everything.


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## ibanez1 (Dec 27, 2022)

Dan said:


> Sure. In the post below this one you will find a midi file for the string parts + audio of the woodwinds and brass.
> 
> Inspired by your request, I decided to just go ahead and start a comparison myself. In each version the strings are completely unprocessed (including without additional reverb) to give an impression of how each library sounds out of the box. CC data was edited for each library to create the best possible sound in the given time.
> 
> ...


Seriously thanks for doing this. I've already bought Pacific but these sorts of comparison help me understand if I'm really missing anything from other offerings. To me, Pacific and CSS sound the most convincing for moving between dynamics and sounding the most natural on legato transitions. Most of these libraries sound great (it's crazy how great EW Hollywood Strings still sounds). I'm giving the edge to Pacific because I prefer the sound but maybe i'm a little biased based on my investment. If you would have done this as a blind test, who knows what I would have picked .


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## JF (Dec 27, 2022)

Dan said:


> Sure. In the post below this one you will find a midi file for the string parts + audio of the woodwinds and brass.
> 
> Inspired by your request, I decided to just go ahead and start a comparison myself. In each version the strings are completely unprocessed (including without additional reverb) to give an impression of how each library sounds out of the box. CC data was edited for each library to create the best possible sound in the given time.
> 
> ...


Dan, you've done a marvelous job making each of these libraries sing, and I was surprised at how well some of them do. Thank you for taking the time to make this. 

My favorite is Pacific.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 27, 2022)

Yes Pacific wins here easy imo even if others did great. Pacific expression and slur between the note made it sound more real, more human like a real performance would. CSS might have been just as good if it had bigger sections but i feel Pacific room would still be better. HO sounds great but transition are not as good but usable of course. Elite strings did surprisingly well being small section. 

Thanks a lot for these. Espeacially since you seem to have made the effort to get the best out of all of them. Nice.


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## soulofsound (Dec 27, 2022)

I think it's very close between CSS and Pacific. I like the sound of Pacific slightly more and the legato of CSS slightly more.


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## Soundbed (Dec 27, 2022)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I just wished there would be a few clean standard shorts notes that were not derived from performance.


I feel a bit dense, but what would you get from that, can you describe it? I understand that there’s a difference. But, I’m wondering what practical advantage there is, in your opinion.


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## QuiteAlright (Dec 27, 2022)

Thank you immensely @Dan for this great comparison.


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## Pedro Camacho (Dec 27, 2022)

Pacific is absolutely great. This is the library that competes closer to my own custom sample string libraries from Sofia and Bratislava (both also made by Jasper before creating Performance Samples!)!

I like these comparisons but I always feel worried when I read conclusions out of these direct out of the box comparisons.
I respect all developers and there are many things one should have in mind:
- Each library is like having a new different instrument (just like you can't play a viola in its best form with the technique of the violin, although they are similar)
- You need to *perform* differently each library to get the most out of it;
- This means in each library the starting time, the velocity, the midi CC11, CC1 (and CC21 for vibrato) is different for each note and you have to correct by ear;
- Sometimes a library has a quicker transition from a certain note to another note than in the rest, and you have to correct that by ear as well;
- Also each library has a different concept behind it. Some of them actually were designed to have a studio sound so you can add the reverb, just like a real mixer would do. Others already have a fantatic hall in it. Some are better for some type of tracks than others because of this. Tuning the reverb to each library makes complete sense;
- Some libraries are designed to have a raw sound and require quite some EQ, just like a mixer would do, and it depends on the style of music that is being performed;

As soon as I have time I will try to make a comparison video where in each take I completely make the best performance I can make out of each library I own, this also includes each of them having its own reverb, its own EQ, its own performance, its own CC11 and CC1 performance, etc. What matters in the end is how close to the real thing you can sound without sacrificing too much of your time in tweakings, how easy it is to perform different styles of lines and have a realistic sound out of it, etc.
Many times the best result comes out of a combination of libraries. Each developer adds something that can be valuable to you in a specific situation! Sometimes you don't even need any legato script to sound amazingly realistic! In the end it is your ear that decides what is best and you know you achieved a great result when everyone just assumes you recorded everything live.


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## QuiteAlright (Dec 27, 2022)

Pedro Camacho said:


> I like these comparisons but I always feel worried when I read conclusions out of these direct out of the box comparisons.
> I respect all developers and there are many things one should have in mind:
> - Each library is like having a new different instrument (just like you can't play a viola in its best form with the technique of the violin, although they are similar)
> - You need to *perform* differently each library to get the most out of it;
> - This means in each library the starting time, the velocity, the midi CC11, CC1 (and CC21 for vibrato) is different for each note and you have to correct by ear;


I think some of these were already addressed. For instance, Dan mentioned that he changed the CC data for each library.

For EQing and timing changes, I think there's an advantage to hearing examples without those changes. It lets me know how much "work" I'll need to do in order to get something that sounds great. For instance:



Pedro Camacho said:


> - Sometimes a library has a quicker transition from a certain note to another note than in the rest, and you have to correct that by ear as well


You're right, but to me I value consistency, and libraries that require more fine tuning might take up more of my time. So I would rather hear the comparison without special timing changes.

With that said, I would love to see your own comparison video! It sounds like you are approaching this from the perspective of "how can I get the absolute best performance out of each library?" which I think is also a wonderful question and a very useful one to answer.


----------



## Vik (Dec 27, 2022)

Dan said:


> I decided to just go ahead and start a comparison myself.


Thanks for doing this!
Are you considering sharing your own favorites – or strings only versions?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 27, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> I feel a bit dense, but what would you get from that, can you describe it?


I'd get short spicc without pre-roll they call it i guess. And that sounds different. I'm not sure i can explain it better. The spiccato taken from performance work great when used is repetition or ostinato like parts. But use sparingly they are maybe not so great because of the pre-roll. I don't want to dwell on that to much here. Probably should not have mentioned it.


----------



## NoamL (Dec 27, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> Hi @NoamL , would you mind posting this passage without the EQ?
> My guess is that maybe there is some frequency content missing that sets off the balance in sound.
> (I already had this impression yersterday but was unsure [tired ears]. Since I think the same today I'd be really interested in hearing the same passage without EQ)


Sure thing @Living Fossil , here you go. Curious about your thoughts.

View attachment March of the Resist_NO EQ.mp3


EQ'd version is repeated below, for easy comparison:

View attachment Resistance March CC1 working right.mp3


You can also hear a demo with no panning or EQ at all here. Although I'd like to tweak that mockup with EQ and less portamentos.



Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I think people are comparing Pacific to other string libraries out of curiosity to explore it’s similarities and differences


Yes... but sometimes people play the sea shell game too much. They want to "crown" the best strings and ask if Pacific will "dethrone" CSS (or Appassionata, or HWS or whatever). If a library can fill a role *amongst* my current best, I'm gonna be a big fan...

The most revealing thing about these library comparisons... is nobody has yet made one with Pacific vs Berlin Symphonic Strings.


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## oxo (Dec 27, 2022)

Dan said:


> Strings midi file + woodwind/brass audio below.


your rachmaninoff file in vista, strings only, raw copy & paste without optimization
View attachment rachmaninoff 2-2 vista.mp3


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## GregStuckey (Dec 27, 2022)

Finally got around to integrating Pacific into my template and messing around with it a bit, particularly exploring the dynamic range - which is huge! The rebows are also a big highlight of the library for me.


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## NoamL (Dec 27, 2022)

Great comparison @Dan

Pacific certainly is alone in nailing the violin rebow at 0:41....

curious about everyone's thoughts.

Pacific Strings & Cinematic Studio Strings were very alive and emotive. I thought Appassionata and BBCSO were just a hair behind too.

Hollywood Strings and Berlin Strings were less emotionally communicative IMO but still you got a realistic and balanced sound out of them that would make a good mockup.

I thought the others were held back issues with transitions, dynamics or how they were recorded.


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## ummon (Dec 27, 2022)

Rachmaninoff with Anthology for the sake of brighter sounding string ensemble. Strings only.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 27, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Sure thing @Living Fossil , here you go. Curious about your thoughts.
> 
> View attachment March of the Resist_NO EQ.mp3
> 
> ...


@NoamL thank you very much for this really interesting comparison.

As my intuition was, I think the version without EQ has a much better interaction of the overtones of the sections. It really builds a powerful sound where the higher range "sits" on a strong, beefy foundation of the lower instruments. I think it highlights the quality of the arrangement a lot. 
It also has more punch and you can hear the "rosin" on the bows of the players. (I don't know how well this translates into english - I mean you can really hear the bows)

However, this comes at the prize of some frequency buildups here and there. Probably – for this constellation –a dynamic EQ with 3-4 frequency areas that react to buildups could keep the energy in balance. (Maybe Soothe would do the trick too)

But I really like the power of the marcati and the interaction of the sections!


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## ibanez1 (Dec 27, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Great comparison @Dan
> 
> Pacific certainly is alone in nailing the violin rebow at 0:41....
> 
> ...


I didn't comment on TSS previously but I don't think this application is where it shines. Maybe if it was pushed back a bit in the room of the mix, it would sound a bit better placement wise for this piece. I definitely think it was missing a lot of the expressive lead in for the legato transitions which made the transitions feel a lot more static in dynamics. I wonder if this is a case where it might take a bit more modwheel work to make it shine?


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## ibanez1 (Dec 27, 2022)

ummon said:


> Rachmaninoff with Anthology for the sake of brighter sounding string ensemble. Strings only.


Anthology still sounds wonderful (maybe Adachi sounds even better ). Pacific hits you in the teeth with the higher dynamics though. I think the expressiveness + range with the huge symphonic sound is what is putting Pacific in a different league.


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## NoamL (Dec 27, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> @NoamL thank you very much for this really interesting comparison.
> 
> As my intuition was, I think the version without EQ has a much better interaction of the overtones of the sections. It really builds a powerful sound where the higher range "sits" on a strong, beefy foundation of the lower instruments. I think it highlights the quality of the arrangement a lot.
> It also has more punch and you can hear the "rosin" on the bows of the players. (I don't know how well this translates into english - I mean you can really hear the bows)
> ...


You're right. Maybe a happy medium can be found. The raw sound feels more "alive" but the eq'd version feels more "clear"... that must be why score mixers make the big bucks!


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## ScarletJerry (Dec 27, 2022)

The last two pages of this thread are amazing! Thank you for sharing, everyone. I only have three takeaways:

1. We have so many options at our disposal for creating great, realistic-sounding orchestral music that features a strings orchestra.

2. I never knew about the Rachmaninoff composition before, so thanks for sharing that. It's really beautiful.

3. Finally, I would like to see someone do some comparisons with the strings in this classic movie scene.

Scarlet Jerry


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## I like music (Dec 27, 2022)

ScarletJerry said:


> The last two pages of this thread are amazing! Thank you for sharing, everyone. I only have three takeaways:
> 
> 1. We have so many options at our disposal for creating great, realistic-sounding orchestral music that features a strings orchestra.
> 
> ...


Heh. Believe it or not, I have this part of ET mocked up with CSS and also with Sample Modeling strings. Will try to dig them out at some point if I can.


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## ridgero (Dec 27, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Sure thing @Living Fossil , here you go. Curious about your thoughts.
> 
> View attachment March of the Resist_NO EQ.mp3
> 
> ...



I like the non EQ'd version more, both sound awesome :D

Where is this cue from?


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## NoamL (Dec 27, 2022)

ridgero said:


> I like the non EQ'd version more, both sound awesome :D
> 
> Where is this cue from?


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## Vik (Dec 27, 2022)

Vik said:


> If the problem is that it's too easy to play the portamento-triggering high velocities, maybe a DAW setting like this (with a negative real time velocity offset) would solve the problem:


Small correction: Blakus said, IIRR, that it was easy to trigger unintended portamentos with velocities over 75. Since 127-75= 52., I guess that velocity offset should be set to -52 to be on the safe side.


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## I like music (Dec 27, 2022)

Vik said:


> Small correction: Blakus said, IIRR, that it was easy to trigger unintended portamentos with velocities over 75. Since 127-75= 52., I guess that velocity offset should be set to -52 to be on the safe side.


Oh, I thought he was referring to MOD data rather than velocities? Going to have to look through the whole video again to catch it now lol.


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## Vik (Dec 27, 2022)

I like music said:


> Oh, I thought he was referring to MOD data rather than velocities? Going to have to look through the whole video again to catch it now lol.


Please let me know what you find out, but in libraries if portamento is triggered by CC values above a certain number, one can still filter them out so they aren't triggered unintentionally – by using the Modifier plugin (as discussed here, but with slightly different setting





How do I disable the link between CC7 and volume in Kontakt?


I'm trying to use a MIDI volume pedal to control dynamics in Kontakt. And it's easy to assign dynamics to CC7 instead of CC1. But when I do that, the main volume slides still obeys CC7 as well. And - it does that even if I manually have removed the link between CC7 and "Instrument Volume 1"...




vi-control.net


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## I like music (Dec 27, 2022)

Vik said:


> Please let me know what you find out, but in libraries if portamento is triggered by CC values above a certain number, one can still filter them out so they aren't triggered unintentionally – by using the Modifier plugin (as discussed here, but with slightly different setting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm actually unsure about the mechanism which drives the legato transition. My understanding was that regardless of what velocity you use on legato transitions, that if MOD data was above a certain value then you had no control over which transition would be triggered.

I'll look through the vid again and see, but I'm sure someone here with the library can correct me if I've misunderstood this whole time (I really hope I have)


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## Dan (Dec 27, 2022)

I like music said:


> I'm actually unsure about the mechanism which drives the legato transition. My understanding was that regardless of what velocity you use on legato transitions, that if MOD data was above a certain value then you had no control over which transition would be triggered.
> 
> I'll look through the vid again and see, but I'm sure someone here with the library can correct me if I've misunderstood this whole time (I really hope I have)


The legato transition is only influenced by CC1.

In the following example, the first 4 repetitions of the phrase have a flat CC1, but note velocity is ascending. As you can hear, the transitions stay the same. The next 4 repetitions have flat velocities, but an ascending CC1 value. The transitions change accordingly.







View attachment legato transitions.mp3


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## Vik (Dec 27, 2022)

Dan said:


> The next 4 repetitions have flat velocities, but an ascending CC1 value. The transitions change accordingly.


Interesting, but I guess there's no randomness involved here? Is portamento triggered above a certain CC value?


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## eric_w (Dec 27, 2022)

Anyone compare Pacific shorts with Areia/nucleus/jaegar "Classic mix" shorts?


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 27, 2022)

eric_w said:


> Anyone compare Pacific shorts with Areia/nucleus/jaegar "Classic mix" shorts?


Yup, I can do that - video should be up by tomorrow!


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## I like music (Dec 27, 2022)

Dan said:


> The legato transition is only influenced by CC1.
> 
> In the following example, the first 4 repetitions of the phrase have a flat CC1, but note velocity is ascending. As you can hear, the transitions stay the same. The next 4 repetitions have flat velocities, but an ascending CC1 value. The transitions change accordingly.
> 
> ...


Thank you for laying it out like this. Really appreciated. Just to echo @Vik's question, if you repeated the final phrase a few times, do you know if the same type of transition would be triggered each time? Or is there a radomisation/RR element where sometimes you might get a more 'slurred' (position change or whatever it might be called) and sometimes another? Or is it entirely predictable what kind of transition you're getting each time you're in that very high CC1 range?


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## Soundbed (Dec 27, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Pacific certainly is alone in nailing the violin rebow at 0:41....


I thought Elite and TSS for the most part also did a good job with the rebows. No?


Living Fossil said:


> As my intuition was, I think the version without EQ has a much better interaction of the overtones of the sections. It really builds a powerful sound where the higher range "sits" on a strong, beefy foundation of the lower instruments. I think it highlights the quality of the arrangement a lot.
> It also has more punch and you can hear the "rosin" on the bows of the players. (I don't know how well this translates into english - I mean you can really hear the bows)
> 
> However, this comes at the prize of some frequency buildups here and there. Probably – for this constellation –a dynamic EQ with 3-4 frequency areas that react to buildups could keep the energy in balance. (Maybe Soothe would do the trick too)


fwiw, I am thinking the Blakus EQ works well in context of media composition, where we "scoop out the middle" a bit to make room for other things in the stereo mix like dialog or maybe even some sfx and to some extent foley. And of course some other sections like drums/perc, woodwinds, brass etc.


Vik said:


> Interesting, but I guess there's no randomness involved here? Is portamento triggered above a certain CC value?


When I play with it, I am hearing a bit of a fluid (gradual) introduction of more and more "port" style position shifts when these things are present:

1. CC1 MOD wheel is moved higher ... not only above 75% but even a little above and below 50% too.
2. Distance between intervals is larger.
3. Notes are played more slowly. If they are played quickly, they are responsive and there is no time to do the port / position shift / slide.

There is sometimes a slight bit of "randomness" (it's unpredictably predictable after you find where they are) between more or less of that "port" / slur sound depending on whether the new note is above or below the previous. So, sometimes there is more slur descending and other times there is a little more slur ascending. It's not predictable when this will happen. It might have to do with where you are on a particular string on the instrument but I haven't investigated yet.


I like music said:


> Thank you for laying it out like this. Really appreciated. Just to echo @Vik's question, if you repeated the final phrase a few times, do you know if the same type of transition would be triggered each time? Or is there a radomisation/RR element where sometimes you might get a more 'slurred' (position change or whatever it might be called) and sometimes another? Or is it entirely predictable what kind of transition you're getting each time you're in that very high CC1 range?


Tried to answer above in words. I will put together an audio demo at some point if I can. Family is still at my house and might need me at any minute.


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## ibanez1 (Dec 27, 2022)

Little legato noodle I did to test the dynamic push of the library. My CC1 probably needs some finesse but overall i'm liking the cohesion of the sections. The range is just excellent and even the dynamic fade at the end feels natural. The excess port at the crescendo is on purpose as I went really high on the modwheel for those that are portamento sensitive .

View attachment PacificNoodle.mp3


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## Vik (Dec 27, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> 1. CC1 MOD wheel is moved higher ... not only above 75% but even a little above and below 50% too.
> 2. Distance between intervals is larger.
> 3. Notes are played more slowly. If they are played quickly, they are responsive and there is no time to do the port / position shift / slide.


Thanks, Soundbed – maybe Blakus also does exactly that (avoids too low velocities). It seems that the combination of his playing style and no CC values above 75 makes him happy:


If that's correct, one could set up a default which transforms too low velocities and too high CC values.


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## Soundbed (Dec 27, 2022)

Want to hear the “port” (slur) at various mod wheel positions?



Here is my not polished attempt to demonstrate why I feel like the legato transition samples "gradually come in" as the mod wheel is moved, and not only get triggered at some specific point in the mod wheel (like 75% or somewhere) ... and I show how you can maybe get a little more control, possibly at the expense of needing an expression controller.


Vik said:


> one could set up a default which transforms too low velocities and too high CC values


Or, as an alternative, you can use the built-in dynamic compress with some makeup gain in the (B) section of the interface.

Again, my thesis is that these 3 contribute to more port/slur, although the mod wheel at bottom removes it about as much as it can be, and at the top of the mod wheel it's as present as it's gonna get. Pacific slur aka "port" is more obvious (generally) when:

_1. CC1 MOD wheel is moved higher ... not only above 75% but even a little above and below 50% too.
2. Distance between intervals is larger.
3. Notes are played more slowly. If they are played quickly, they are responsive and there is no time to do the port / position shift / slide._


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## soulofsound (Dec 27, 2022)

Dan said:


> Sure. In the post below this one you will find a midi file for the string parts + audio of the woodwinds and brass.
> 
> Inspired by your request, I decided to just go ahead and start a comparison myself. In each version the strings are completely unprocessed (including without additional reverb) to give an impression of how each library sounds out of the box. CC data was edited for each library to create the best possible sound in the given time.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure i like the legato in real recordings better 






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO7QKi-SukQ&t=1573s


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## ibanez1 (Dec 27, 2022)

soulofsound said:


> I'm not sure i like real recordings better
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome. Can you have Google spit out some live symphony renditions for all of my personal string orchestrations as well? It might cost me a fortune to actually hire a live orchestra otherwise .


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## Soundbed (Dec 27, 2022)

soulofsound said:


> I'm not sure i like the legato in real recordings better


awesome!! are we going to have the "sampled legato isn't actually real strings player legato" conversation again here? I guess we shouldn't, because Performance Samples' products are not for purists. (?)


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 27, 2022)

Dan said:


> Sure. In the post below this one you will find a midi file for the string parts + audio of the woodwinds and brass.
> 
> Inspired by your request, I decided to just go ahead and start a comparison myself. In each version the strings are completely unprocessed (including without additional reverb) to give an impression of how each library sounds out of the box. CC data was edited for each library to create the best possible sound in the given time.
> 
> ...


Dan - you've gone above and beyond! Thank you for taking the time to do all of this. Extremely helpful! I think nobody would disagree that we are absolutely spoiled for choice these days. And given I have a number of the libraries you showed (dare I say, too many), I think you've saved me a bunch of money as well - so thank you for that! I think a lot of these did an excellent job to my ears (and some I would say sound better on my system, especially when it goes into the high notes. Pacific sounds a bit fizzy - could be noise left in). Some may find Pacific superior to their ears - and ultimately, that's what we all need to rely on (our own ears), vs the hype train. These comparisons are very helpful in allowing us to compare objectively.


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## soulofsound (Dec 27, 2022)

> Soundbed said:
> 
> 
> > awesome!! are we going to have the "sampled legato isn't actually real strings player legato" conversation again here? I guess we shouldn't, because Performance Samples' products are not for purists. (?)


Well if only the first two clips (DW and AVROTROS) sound better to me (and then it's mostly the space) than the sample library examples, that says a lot about how far we've come.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 27, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Ok it's still uploading/processing but here is my not polished attempt to demonstrate why I feel like the legato transition samples "gradually come in" as the mod wheel is moved, and not only get triggered at some specific point in the mod wheel (like 75% or somewhere) ... and I show how you can maybe get a little more control, possibly at the expense of needing an expression controller.
> 
> Or, as an alternative, you can use the built-in dynamic compress with some makeup gain in the (B) section of the interface.
> 
> ...



4. The protamento is more pronounced the higher you go up the register?  At least, that's the impression i got from the violin in Blackus video.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 27, 2022)

Dan said:


> Spitfire Symphonic Strings (Performance Legato):
> View attachment Spitfire Symphonic Strings Performance Legato.mp3
> 
> 
> ...


Here's Audiobro's Modern Scoring Strings (MSS), which I've only owned for about 24 hours. It can surely do better than this in more experienced hands. This is out-of-the-box, no processing.

View attachment Rach_MSS.mp3


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## Soundbed (Dec 27, 2022)

Symfoniq said:


> Here's Audiobro's Modern Scoring Strings (MSS), which I've only owned for about 24 hours. It can surely do better than this in more experienced hands. This is out-of-the-box, no processing.


I will try tomorrow, if I have some time.


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## Casiquire (Dec 27, 2022)

Dan said:


> Spitfire Symphonic Strings (Performance Legato):
> View attachment Spitfire Symphonic Strings Performance Legato.mp3
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for doing this, what a fantastic bunch of examples!

I can't be the only one who thinks Vista has really rough legato, can I? I own it and find that it completely falls apart at mid tempo, like in the example here. There's a little thwack right before almost every single transition and I can't unhear it


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 27, 2022)

Symfoniq said:


> Here's Audiobro's Modern Scoring Strings (MSS), which I've only owned for about 24 hours. It can surely do better than this in more experienced hands. This is out-of-the-box, no processing.


Which legato type did you end up using and did you vary it through the piece? Also, MSS has rebows but you have to trigger it.


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## José Herring (Dec 27, 2022)

Dan said:


> Spitfire Symphonic Strings (Performance Legato):
> View attachment Spitfire Symphonic Strings Performance Legato.mp3
> 
> 
> ...


So impressed with all of these really. I wanted to do one with a library that isn't covered to compare. I used SynStrPro for the comparison. I was actually quite pleased. So pleased that the only reason for me to get Pacific Strings would be that I could achieve the same results in less time. 

Strings only if I have the time I'll try and get the rest of the orchestra in.

Synchron Strings Pro (Rachmaninoff)
View attachment Rach_SynStrPro.mp3


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## Symfoniq (Dec 27, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Which legato type did you end up using and did you vary it through the piece? Also, MSS has rebows but you have to trigger it.


Just normal legato throughout.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 27, 2022)

Can someone explain to my dingus mind what the difference between live offset setting/play back offset setting is? I noticed LV is easier to play in, so I thought I am supposed to play it in with that and then switch it to the other setting and then lock in the offset?

Always sounds weird. 
Whenever I just play whatever setting its in, it sounds the best afterwards. 
If I change the delay offset in logic to match (what I think is the suggested offset in the pacific guy) it just sounds weird. 

Send Help! 

I have too many libraries with too many weird distinct features. 

I'm still pretty new at this and it's annoying my brain haha! 

Send Help!


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 27, 2022)

Side note, the Sordino's are SO beautiful while using the pitch wheel to extend release...its so smoothly connected it feels like such a real performance/bypasses need for sordino legato IMO atm


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## Soundbed (Dec 27, 2022)

José Herring said:


> So impressed with all of these really. I wanted to do one with a library that isn't covered to compare. I used SynStrPro for the comparison. I was actually quite pleased. So pleased that the only reason for me to get Pacific Strings would be that I could achieve the same results in less time.
> 
> Strings only if I have the time I'll try and get the rest of the orchestra in.
> 
> ...


Thanks for reminding me that I’m still happy enough with Elite “only” and don’t need the full SySPro (or whatever the acronym is).


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## Soundbed (Dec 27, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Side note, the Sordino's are SO beautiful while using the pitch wheel to extend release...its so smoothly connected it feels like such a real performance/bypasses need for sordino legato IMO atm


Yeah the sordino needs more attention in this thread next. Maybe @Dan will do some amazing passage in 8 libraries and provide backing audio and strings midi. Or maybe the sordino patches will remain an undiscovered gem.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 27, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Thanks so much for doing this, what a fantastic bunch of examples!
> 
> I can't be the only one who thinks Vista has really rough legato, can I? I own it and find that it completely falls apart at mid tempo, like in the example here. There's a little thwack right before almost every single transition and I can't unhear it


I noticed that sucking effect too. I find the expression kind of makes up for it cause it's so good though. Is that on all the mics? What about the close mic? I was hoping it was just the ambient mics. I ask cause someone posted the close mic only with Teldex IRs and it sounded really good. I'm still hoping i can get vista at some point if the price is right.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 27, 2022)

I'm impressed by all the work in this thread to examine Pacific Legato. The Legato police are certainly doing their thing and doing it well!

The examples here have reinforced what I noticed in the demos from the beginning... 

While I can't say I'm underwhelmed, I'm not exactly overwhelmed with the overall sound either. Maybe it's the self described homogeneity. At this point I'd have to say soundwise it takes its place at or near the top of class of commercial string VI's out there, but doesn't blow away CSS, Berlin Symphonic, BBCSO (Surprise!) Etc.

Don't get me wrong. This is a massive achievement. Taking this size of an ensemble and making it as nimble as it sounds...Jasper is a scripting genius from where I stand!

There are aspects of Pacific, Namely the Whisper Sustains, Those Flexible Marcatos along with all the dynamic levels, that sounded wonderful from Blakus's walkthru. The Harp is way better than expected.

I've known better, but still had harbored some small hope (After all this time) of one set of Strings to Rule them all...That Pacific would clearly blow everything else away from note one. It doesn't, but it's right there with the best. 

We now seem to be up against the current State of the Art in commercial Strings (Especially after watching those Rach Vids!) and it's just a matter of individual strengths and weaknesses at this point. Pacific will probably sit on my palette next to CSS as the main string VI with all the others as a part of the usual layering strategy.

The Loyalty price point and the features make this irresistible for me. It may be meat and potatoes, but def looks like the Prime rib edition. 

My compliments to this community! I've learned so much from all of you


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 27, 2022)

jazzman7 said:


> The Loyalty price point and the features make this irresistible for me. It may be meat and potatoes, but def looks like the Prime rib edition.


I admit, I didn't think it was going to sound as good as it does, and I'm not a fan of the as-is purchases from Performance Samples (even though I love Caspian and Oceania). However, I am blown away by most of the demos everyone has posted so far. I really wish PS had con sordino legatos, but that's just getting picky on my part. If the "freebie" of the con sordino violins is the same as what's delivered in PS, I will indeed cave and buy it.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 27, 2022)

I mean just listen to this Violin sordino noodling!


View attachment pacific violin sordino .mp3


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## jazzman7 (Dec 27, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I admit, I didn't think it was going to sound as good as it does, and I'm not a fan of the as-is purchases from Performance Samples (even though I love Caspian and Oceania). However, I am blown away by most of the demos everyone has posted so far. I really wish PS had con sordino legatos, but that's just getting picky on my part. If the "freebie" of the con sordino violins is the same as what's delivered in PS, I will indeed cave and buy it.


Add in the upcoming solo offering for free on top of this..Def doesn't hurt!


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## jazzman7 (Dec 27, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I mean just listen to this Violin sordino noodling!
> 
> 
> View attachment pacific violin sordino .mp3


Do love that sound! Another incentive!


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## jazzman7 (Dec 27, 2022)

Damn shame 'Culp is not around for this! Is he gone for good?


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## José Herring (Dec 27, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Thanks for reminding me that I’m still happy enough with Elite “only” and don’t need the full SySPro (or whatever the acronym is).


Actually I was thinking that the two in combination would make a fairly realistic string section. Though, it would take a ton of work to work that I'm not sure I'd be up to at all.


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## shropshirelad (Dec 27, 2022)

This is AI Jaeger, Classic Mix, copy and paste job.

View attachment Output 1-2.mp3


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 27, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Actually I was thinking that the two in combination would make a fairly realistic string section. Though, it would take a ton of work to work that I'm not sure I'd be up to at all.


You don’t find they layer easily? Elite providing a bit more definition to SSP. I believe it is a common usage (for string libraries of these different sizes in general as well - like Berlin Strings with Berlin Symphonic Strings).


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## José Herring (Dec 27, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You don’t find they layer easily? Elite providing a bit more definition to SSP. I believe it is a common usage (for string libraries of these different sizes in general as well - like Berlin Strings with Berlin Symphonic Strings).


I'm sure they blend well. I'm just thinking with the steep learning curve I've had to go through to even get one passable thing with SynStrPro, the amount of work needed to handle two VSL string libraries would be overwhelming. That's why I'm hoping that Pacific strings is playble so I can concentrate on being a musician and not a midi programmer.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 27, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I'm sure they blend well. I'm just thinking with the steep learning curve I've had to go through to even get one passable thing with SynStrPro, the amount of work needed to handle two VSL string libraries would be overwhelming. That's why I'm hoping that Pacific strings is playble so I can concentrate on being a musician and not a midi programmer.


That’s valuable insight! How much massaging did you do with your example above in terms of using articulations beyond the standard legato?


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## José Herring (Dec 27, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> That’s valuable insight! How much massaging did you do with your example above in terms of using articulations beyond the standard legato?


Not too much. It's just confusing with the multiple layers of keyswitching. I'm not a fan of KS to begin with. Mostly I just think I'm a big baby and so use to using HS that bothering to learn another system is almost more than I want to go through. But I really like SynStrPro because it reminds me most of a classical ensemble medium size which I'm fond of.

Here's a full version. This time I just dropped the midi in and just did a few KS.

SynStrPro

View attachment Rachmaninoff SynStrPro (full orchestra).mp3


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 27, 2022)

jazzman7 said:


> Damn shame 'Culp is not around for this! Is he gone for good?


I don't think so.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 27, 2022)

jazzman7 said:


> Damn shame 'Culp is not around for this! Is he gone for good?


If you miss him:









Join the muziksculp's Sample Libraries and Synths Discussion server Discord Server!


This server is to discuss Sample Libraries , Orchestral, and Acoustic, Effects, Posting Demo Tracks, and Soundtracks. | 24 members




discord.gg


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## jazzman7 (Dec 27, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> If you miss him:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ha interesting. Thanks doc!


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## Dan (Dec 28, 2022)

Symfoniq said:


> Here's Audiobro's Modern Scoring Strings (MSS), which I've only owned for about 24 hours. It can surely do better than this in more experienced hands. This is out-of-the-box, no processing.


Thank you! I think the strings might be one octave too high though.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 28, 2022)

Dan said:


> Thank you! I think the strings might be one octave too high though.


You might be right. I just used the imported MIDI, assuming it was correct.


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## Dan (Dec 28, 2022)

Symfoniq said:


> You might be right. I just used the imported MIDI, assuming it was correct.


Thank you for pointing that out. I just realized that the tracks somehow are transposed up one octave (in the track settings) when I import the file back into Logic. Very weird. There now is an updated midi file in the original post that shouldn't have that problem.

I still would love to hear an updated version from you by the way. MSS sounded promising even one octave too high.


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## ScarletJerry (Dec 28, 2022)

I imagine some of you are like me. You've been doing this work for a while and already own CSS, maybe CS2, Vista, perhaps Soaring Strings, and took advantage of the 8Dio string sales. You also have one or two nice violins, like the Joshua Bell and perhaps Spitfire Solo Strings. Like me, you may be wondering, "Do I really need another string library?" Pacific sounds wonderful, but I think back to my audiophile collecting days, when I would know that I could buy a moderately priced set of speakers from Radio Shack which would produce 98% of the sound that I want to hear, or I could buy more expensive Bose or Altec Lansing speakers to get the full audio experience. That's where I am now.

Part of what is pushing me to get this library is that the loyalty discount is a great deal. Also, I don't have anything with that many dynamic layers. I'm also interested in writing vintage 1950's style soundtrack music, and the legato in Pacific looks like it can produce that extra slurry sound. I would also like to support Jasper because he has given us some nice freebies over the years.

Finally, here is one of my favorite string soundtrack excerpts (the first 45 secs). This emotional writing has always been the gold standard for me:

Another test for string libraries - emotional E.T. soundtrack music

Would anyone like to offer me any advice?

Scarlet Jerry


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## Vik (Dec 28, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Want to hear the “port” (slur) at various mod wheel positions?



Thanks a lot for the effort, SB, I hope you still have a wife and that the cold soon will disappear!  Like everyone else, I don't want portamento overload either, and trust that when I buy that library; I'll find a way to avoid triggering portamentos when I don't want them!


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## Symfoniq (Dec 28, 2022)

Dan said:


> Thank you for pointing that out. I just realized that the tracks somehow are transposed up one octave (in the track settings) when I import the file back into Logic. Very weird. There now is an updated midi file in the original post that shouldn't have that problem.
> 
> I still would love to hear an updated version from you by the way. MSS sounded promising even one octave too high.


Thanks Dan. I've updated the file in the original post by pushing everything down an octave, but here it is again. I may take another, more comprehensive pass later today as I get more familiar with MSS.

EDIT:

I've updated it again, this time making use of Modern Scoring String's bloom legato, and selective use of portamento. This isn't how I'd EQ it if I had my way, but I wanted to faithfully represent the out-of-the-box sound.

View attachment Rach_MSS.mp3


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## handz (Dec 28, 2022)

Dan said:


> Sure. In the post below this one you will find a midi file for the string parts + audio of the woodwinds and brass.
> 
> Inspired by your request, I decided to just go ahead and start a comparison myself. In each version the strings are completely unprocessed (including without additional reverb) to give an impression of how each library sounds out of the box. CC data was edited for each library to create the best possible sound in the given time.
> 
> ...


Wow, this thread is one of the best things about this Christmas holidays 
I have listened to all the examples and it is really interesting. 
My top Choices would be: Pacific / CSS and probably VSL (Yes, even I am surprised) I really don't like PS in some other demos, the portamentos are really annoying in many parts and I am bummed they can't be simply changed for some other type of transition, here they are working ok (especially when you hear it played by real orchestra) 

HS - hit and miss some parts are pausable, some bit sterile, but considering the age, it holds up pretty well
BS - muffled sound, not really works for m
BSS - better, not wow but definitely not bad
Appassionata - here I would actually like to have more pronounced legato transitions, it sound bit plain, meh
BBC - one of the worst for me
SSS -nope, sounds really synthy and lifeless to me
Tokyo - ok, next, this is worst for me, but I guess it is not a fair comparison
VSL - good, not super exciting but nothing annoys me
8dio - a surprise for me, sounds quite decent

What I see as a big weakness in 99% of the libs is that the longer notes in the phrase sound lifeless, there is no change in vibrato and expression, and this is something I am really still waiting for in good Strings lib, modulation which changes the tone when longer notes are played or going to higher dynamics, PS is sounding the most expressive in this regard which is great, if the portamento wasn't so pronounced even in slower, low dynamics passages it would be best Strings Lib on the marked without any doubt for me.


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## sound team apk (Dec 28, 2022)

@José Herring Here's a pretty shoddy version of @Dan's MIDI layering Synchron Strings I (not pro) and Synchron Elite Strings (I think it's just the SS1 tree mic and just the room mix on SES, no reverb or processing):

View attachment rach string test.mp3


I could only spend so much time fiddling with the tempo track, so there's quite a bit of rubato at times. I threw in one or two excessive slurs to show that even VSL has such things in its legato, but I got to choose where. 

EDIT: Fixed an issue where I made the celli really loud at one point by mistake.


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## wunderflo (Dec 28, 2022)

ScarletJerry said:


> I imagine some of you are like me. You've been doing this work for a while and already own CSS, maybe CS2, Vista, perhaps Soaring Strings, and took advantage of the 8Dio string sales. You also have one or two nice violins, like the Joshua Bell and perhaps Spitfire Solo Strings. Like me, you may be wondering, "Do I really need another string library?" Pacific sounds wonderful, but I think back to my audiophile collecting days, when I would know that I could buy a moderately priced set of speakers from Radio Shack which would produce 98% of the sound that I want to hear, or I could buy more expensive Bose or Altec Lansing speakers to get the full audio experience. That's where I am now.
> 
> Part of what is pushing me to get this library is that the loyalty discount is a great deal. Also, I don't have anything with that many dynamic layers. I'm also interested in writing vintage 1950's style soundtrack music, and the legato in Pacific looks like it can produce that extra slurry sound. I would also like to support Jasper because he has given us some nice freebies over the years.
> 
> ...


All I can say is: when we put the legatos under a microscope 10min after the library is released, we sometimes seem to forget that it's just SO MUCH FUN TO PLAY! I'd call this my most fun to play, most rewarding strings library. Plus, I already fell in love with its sound when listening to the first demos 2 years ago or so, but that might be a matter of taste and subjective. It just connects to me emotionally. Still, back then it was priced around 500$ or so for everyone (don't remember exactly), and I was thinking to myself, damn, this is way too expensive for me as a hobbyist, but I'm afraid I really want to have this. Hence, this feels like I made a very good deal now with the loyalty intro price. I would have spent more on it. Might have been an evil genius masterplan, but observing Jasper's 0-marketing efforts, I doubt it. 
In regards to the legatos, maybe it was Jasper's plan to make some kind of auto-pilot that chooses the right legato in 90% of the cases, so people don't have to worry about it. Works for me, but ironically it seems to have triggered only more legato-anxiety among the VI-Control freaks. 

Btw: I love these kind of threads and comparisons, too. Just wanted to point out what makes this library special to me.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 28, 2022)

I know a bunch of legato comparisons have been shared already, but I finally got around to do my own and wanted to share it too: 



This video features one small and one large interval legato transition, each performed by all four sections (no 2nd Violins obviously ) at three different dynamics (42, 84 and 127). I did some rough volume matching by ear, but it's not perfect because e.g. Hollywood Strings is using a niente patch and therefore quieter at low dynamics than the others.
It's a very technical demonstration/comparison and not nearly as fun to listen to as @Dan's gorgeous mockup, but I still hope this will provide some helpful information. My next one will be the spiccato comparison @eric_w requested


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 28, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Can someone explain to my dingus mind what the difference between live offset setting/play back offset setting is? I noticed LV is easier to play in, so I thought I am supposed to play it in with that and then switch it to the other setting and then lock in the offset?
> 
> Always sounds weird.
> Whenever I just play whatever setting its in, it sounds the best afterwards.
> ...


Bump


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 28, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Can someone explain to my dingus mind what the difference between live offset setting/play back offset setting is? I noticed LV is easier to play in, so I thought I am supposed to play it in with that and then switch it to the other setting?


The way I understand it this is exactly what they're for. The shorter offset is easier to use when playing live, so you can use it to play something in and then switch to the other one for (supposed) maximum realism.


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## wunderflo (Dec 28, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Bump


it enables you to choose different offset settings for playing it in live vs. playing it back (for example, when you just draw in the notes). However, you have to activate it. By default it will be set to "PLBK Lock" which means that it uses the playback settings.

Hence, when you play it in using one setting, and then change it, the timing will be off.

EDIT: When you compensate for it by also adjusting the pre-delay setting of that track in your DAW after having recorded it and having switched from LV to PLBK, the timing shouldn't be off actually. But that stuff always confuses me, because even with a higher offset, I'll automatically adjust to it when playing it in live, so my notes will be in time (but not on the grid) and messing with offset and pre-delay timings after I recorded something will only make a mess.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 28, 2022)

Also, one funny thing to point out. So many people mention the noises in these libraries but HOW MANY mention cineperc as THE definitive perc library and holy shit I’ve never heard so much noise floor/artifacts on melodic percussion in my life. (I love the library) but no one mentioned that. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Just for a little devils advocacy perspective. 

Some of y’all need to give this developer a break. 

And be less clinical. I come from a noise rock/psychedelic punk background before I got into this staunch gathering of collared shirts buttoned all the way up club


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 28, 2022)

wunderflo said:


> it enables you to choose different offset settings for playing it in live vs. playing it back (for example, when you just draw in the notes). However, you have to activate it. By default it will be set to "PLBK Lock" which means that it uses the playback settings.


Thanks I’ll have to mess with it more. Getting weird results. 

But when I set it to lv it plays so well I don’t see any reason to change it.


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## wunderflo (Dec 28, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Thanks I’ll have to mess with it more. Getting weird results.
> 
> But when I set it to lv it plays so well I don’t see any reason to change it.


when you set it to LV (in the menu where you can choose between LV, PLBK & PLBK Lock), it'll only look at your LV Offset setting (which theoretically could be the same as the PLBK offset, but it's set to -50 by default). So which LV offset do you use? It just means it cuts into the sample a bit more, making it a bit tighter, but less realistic for repetitions (presumably). The tighter attack could sound better for the first note, though. 

So if you want to get really finicky, you could use the LV offset for the first note and the PLBK offset for following notes/repetitions (but then you'd have to adjust the notes manually in piano roll or use two tracks with different pre-delay settings). Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it too much. The -50 offset will probably still cut less into the samples than most other developers would by default.

EDIT: Maybe it sounds strange to you, because afaik Jasper doesn't record single spiccatos in isolation, but records performances (repetitions?) and then presumably leaves in some of the decay of the previous note in the "pre-attack" of the sample - which you basically reduce by using the -50 LV setting.


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## Soundbed (Dec 28, 2022)

Vik said:


> I'll find a way to avoid triggering portamentos when I don't want them!


Yeah the non-slur transitions are at the bottom of the mod wheel, but the dynamic levels need to get compressed in the GUI, using expression for volume, and the timbre changes. Definitely an unusual combination of traits, I think. 



wunderflo said:


> So if you want to get really finicky, you could use the LV offset for the first note and the PLBK offset for following


…for the following notes, whether or not they are repetitions. Awesome! I’ve always wanted that to be part of the PS scripting. But now I can imagine how to do it within the interface, at least. Probably something someone could figure out how to script in Studio One (macros?). 


Baronvonheadless said:


> And be less clinical. I come from a noise rock/psychedelic punk background before I got into this staunch gathering of collared shirts buttoned all the way up club


When in Rome…


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## wunderflo (Dec 28, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> …for the following notes, whether or not they are repetitions.


true, I corrected that in my post.


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## Vik (Dec 28, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> he non-slur transitions are at the bottom of the mod wheel, but the dynamic levels need to get compressed in the GUI, using expression for volume, and the timbre changes


I guess nobody who just invested in a library with a generous amount of dynamic layers would compress dynamics so much that one only hears one of them – and instead of crossfading between dynamic layers uses CC7 or CC1... so: I assume you mean something else? Confused.


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## bvaughn0402 (Dec 28, 2022)

What is the deal with the harp I keep seeing people mention? I don’t see anything on the website about it.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 28, 2022)

wunderflo said:


> when you set it to LV (in the menu where you can choose between LV, PLBK & PLBK Lock), it'll only look at your LV Offset setting (which theoretically could be the same as the PLBK offset, but it's set to -50 by default). So which LV offset do you use? It just means it cuts into the sample a bit more, making it a bit tighter, but less realistic for repetitions (presumably). The tighter attack could sound better for the first note, though.
> 
> So if you want to get really finicky, you could use the LV offset for the first note and the PLBK offset for following notes/repetitions (but then you'd have to adjust the notes manually in piano roll or use two tracks with different pre-delay settings). Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it too much. The -50 offset will probably still cut less into the samples than most other developers would by default.
> 
> EDIT: Maybe it sounds strange to you, because afaik Jasper doesn't record single spiccatos in isolation, but records performances (repetitions?) and then presumably leaves in some of the decay of the previous note in the "pre-attack" of the sample - which you basically reduce by using the -50 LV setting.


I think what I was trying to say, better, is that:

If I have it on Playback and play it in and record it - Without setting the logic negative track delay to the parameter listed on playback mode - it sounds fine. If I set it to what it says it sounds off time. 

If I play it in lv mode and record it without changing the logic negative delay to 50. It’s in perfect time. If I change the setting in logic to -50 in lv mode it plays out of time to my click. 

That’s what I’m confused about.


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## wunderflo (Dec 28, 2022)

Vik said:


> I guess nobody who just invested in a a library with a generous amount of dynamic layers would compress dynamics si much that one only hears one of them and instead of crossfading between dynamic layers uses CC7 or CC1... so: I assume you mean something else? Confused.


even with compressed dynamics (set in the GUI, not by using an actual compressor), the timbre will still change - just not the volume (which you can then control separately). So you still profit from all the dynamic layers. It's probably similar to using the VSL "timbre adjust".


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## axb312 (Dec 28, 2022)

More user demos would be greatly appreciated.


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## wunderflo (Dec 28, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I think what I was trying to say, better, is that:
> 
> If I have it on Playback and play it in and record it - Without setting the logic negative track delay to the parameter listed on playback mode - it sounds fine. If I set it to what it says it sounds off time.
> 
> ...


ah gotcha, well that's probably because your brain automatically adjusts to the offset and you automatically correct it when playing it in. Messing with the pre delay settings in your DAW only makes sense when you draw stuff in and prefer everything to be on the grid.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 28, 2022)

I've updated the MSS example again, this time making use of Modern Scoring String's bloom legato, and selective use of portamento. This isn't how I'd EQ it if I had my way, but I wanted to faithfully represent the out-of-the-box sound.

View attachment Rach_MSS.mp3


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## Soundbed (Dec 28, 2022)

Vik said:


> I guess nobody who just invested in a a library with a generous amount of dynamic layers would compress dynamics si much that one only hears one of them and instead of crossfading between dynamic layers uses CC7 or CC1... so: I assume you mean something else? Confused.


You don’t hear one of the dynamic layers. You still hear all of them and crossfade across all of them. But, you only get the non-slurs in the “quietest” dynamic level—which can be as loud, in dB, as the loudest; or it can be quieter, based on an independently mapped volume control like expression.

And, as shown in some other examples, the timbral contrast between the lowest dynamic and the highest is not too vast, so, presumably it might still work out. (?)

But… it might be considered an odd way to use the library for sure, only to have the ability to get non-slur transitions. 


wunderflo said:


> even with compressed dynamics (set in the GUI, not by using an actual compressor), the timbre will still change - just not the volume (which you can then control separately). So you still profit from all the dynamic layers. It's probably similar to using the VSL "timbre adjust".


Good comparison. You probably said it better too.


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## ScarletJerry (Dec 28, 2022)

wunderflo said:


> All I can say is: when we put the legatos under a microscope 10min after the library is released, we sometimes seem to forget that it's just SO MUCH FUN TO PLAY! I'd call this my most fun to play, most rewarding strings library. Plus, I already fell in love with its sound when listening to the first demos 2 years ago or so, but that might be a matter of taste and subjective. It just connects to me emotionally. Still, back then it was priced around 500$ or so for everyone (don't remember exactly), and I was thinking to myself, damn, this is way too expensive for me as a hobbyist, but I'm afraid I really want to have this. Hence, this feels like I made a very good deal now with the loyalty intro price. I would have spent more on it. Might have been an evil genius masterplan, but observing Jasper's 0-marketing efforts, I doubt it.
> In regards to the legatos, maybe it was Jasper's plan to make some kind of auto-pilot that chooses the right legato in 90% of the cases, so people don't have to worry about it. Works for me, but ironically it seems to have triggered only more legato-anxiety among the VI-Control freaks.
> 
> Btw: I love these kind of threads and comparisons, too. Just wanted to point out what makes this library special to me.


Thanks for your insight. Playability hasn’t come up very much (except in the YouTube reviews) so you make a very good point. Also, you mention the price. Like you, this probably would not be a consideration for me at $500 because I already own CSS and Pacific sounds somewhat similar to me, but at $249, it’s right at the upper level of my consideration level. I really didn’t think about the price point as a consideration until you brought it up in your post.

As I think about it further, I think the fact that I just love the legato in Vista and I’m happy with CSS as a great sounding all around string library that I feel like I already reached my satisfaction with strings. Like all of you, I’ve been following the Pacific thread for a year, but when it came time to actually purchase it, I started to have some hesitation. If I didn’t have Vista or CSS, this would have been an insta buy on the day that it was released.

Finally, I believe that this discussion thread is a model for what a Vi-Control should always be - engaging civil discussion with collaborative problem solving. Thank you all!

Scarlet Jerry


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## Soundbed (Dec 28, 2022)

Symfoniq said:


> I've updated the MSS example again, this time making use of Modern Scoring String's bloom legato, and selective use of portamento. This isn't how I'd EQ it if I had my way, but I wanted to faithfully represent the out-of-the-box sound.


Much better than your previous posts! I can’t put my finger on it yet but there’s still something a little disjointed that I’m hearing, maybe it’s in my head. I’ll take a look when I get into the studio.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 28, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Much better than your previous posts! I can’t put my finger on it yet but there’s still something a little disjointed that I’m hearing, maybe it’s in my head. I’ll take a look when I get into the studio.


Feedback is welcome! I think you own this library? I generally wouldn't post a mock-up of a library I've owned for less than two days, but there wasn't one already here for MSS. I'm still not happy with the same-note rebows, but probably need to dive into the manual to see what I'm doing wrong.


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## Rick S (Dec 28, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Much better than your previous posts! I can’t put my finger on it yet but there’s still something a little disjointed that I’m hearing, maybe it’s in my head. I’ll take a look when I get into the studio.


It's not just you. It is disjointed.
Although there is legato, there is a perceived break in sustain before the next note in every line.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 28, 2022)

Symfoniq said:


> I've updated the MSS example again, this time making use of Modern Scoring String's bloom legato, and selective use of portamento. This isn't how I'd EQ it if I had my way, but I wanted to faithfully represent the out-of-the-box sound.


Nice! Might be worth raising the volume of the strings (or lowering the backing track). Also, take a look at how to trigger rebow in the manual - handy for repeated notes.


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## José Herring (Dec 28, 2022)

One with CS2 because for some reason I can never stop using this library. 

Cinematic Strings 2.0
View attachment Rachmaninoff CS2.mp3


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 28, 2022)

José Herring said:


> One with CS2 because for some reason I can never stop using this library.
> 
> Cinematic Strings 2.0
> View attachment Rachmaninoff CS2.mp3


Wow! Beautiful.


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## NoamL (Dec 28, 2022)

Sordino test... This is cheating a bit!

on the left, quick mockup of Pacific sordino non-legato sustains +CSS legatos (with fake sordino emulation) +CSSS (ditto). no eq or anything just a master verb

on the right, live strings recorded by Alan Meyerson. (from Henry Jackman's "Jumanji: The Next Level")

View attachment Pacific CSS sordinos combo.mp3


Here's Pacific alone

View attachment Pacific Alone sordino.mp3



The legato layer is needed IMO, but the sustains certainly have a beautiful & realistic sordino sound. Very nice freebie.

We'll never beat live music 



José Herring said:


> One with CS2 because for some reason I can never stop using this library.
> 
> Cinematic Strings 2.0
> View attachment Rachmaninoff CS2.mp3


This library will always be top tier <3


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## tebling (Dec 28, 2022)

Apparently you can never have too many string library comparisons?! @Dan, what have you done...

Here's CSS in the Project Colossal template, set to expressive legato and MIDI velocities down low for the slowest legato transitions:

View attachment Pacific Comparison - CSS.mp3


In the past I've blended CSS + Con Moto rather successfully, so I thought I'd see if Pacific + CSS is also viable. Here are the two together, with each library contributing equal loudness and the total strings loudness matching the previous example. This is the Pacific legato sustains, also run through the Project Colossal chain, with Blakus' instrument EQ.

View attachment Pacific Comparison - CSS + Pacific.mp3


I think it works remarkably well, but if this were a "real" project I'd want to go in and tighten up the timing a bit between the two libraries as it's a tad blurry in this example.


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## José Herring (Dec 28, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Wow! Beautiful.


And Soooooo easy to use. Imo CS2 has all the right stuff for bread n’ butter string writing.


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## Getsumen (Dec 28, 2022)

bvaughn0402 said:


> What is the deal with the harp I keep seeing people mention? I don’t see anything on the website about it.


There's just a simple little harp in the library included in the bonus patch folder. Should be on the websites patch list


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## I like music (Dec 28, 2022)

José Herring said:


> And Soooooo easy to use. Imo CS2 has all the right stuff for bread n’ butter string writing.


Came for Pacific, stayed for CS2.

Hmmm. Wondering why it doesn't get more mentions on these forums. (Don't want to derail the thread, but curious...)


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## José Herring (Dec 28, 2022)

I like music said:


> Came for Pacific, stayed for CS2.
> 
> Hmmm. Wondering why it doesn't get more mentions on these forums. (Don't want to derail the thread, but curious...)


I never understood why it's never been a more popular string library. For years I thought it was just me and that my taste were odd, but now I realized that odd taste or not I just need to go with what I hear and feel.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 28, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I never understood why it's never been a more popular string library. For years I thought it was just me and that my taste were odd, but now I realized that odd taste or not I just need to go with what I hear and feel.


I believe AK Dern still uses it for layering - it shows up in almost every one of her videos.


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## José Herring (Dec 28, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I believe AK Dern still uses it for layering - it shows up in almost every one of her videos.


Yeah, I noticed that. I watched one of her videos and she stated that if all she had was CS2.0 and CSS she's be all set for strings libraries. I agreed with her on CS2 not so much with CSS but CSS is actually starting to grown on me. Grow on my enough that I think this year I may just get all the Cinematic Studio libraries.


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## cg19 (Dec 28, 2022)

Eastwest Symphonic Orchestra just for fun. I was NOT expecting this to sound so good!

View attachment holyshit.mp3


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## Symfoniq (Dec 28, 2022)

Rick S said:


> It's not just you. It is disjointed.
> Although there is legato, there is a perceived break in sustain before the next note in every line.


Maybe it's the legato transition speed. I left it on "Auto".


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## I like music (Dec 28, 2022)

Do you have CSS too? Do they go together well?


José Herring said:


> I never understood why it's never been a more popular string library. For years I thought it was just me and that my taste were odd, but now I realized that odd taste or not I just need to go with what I hear and feel.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 28, 2022)

cg19 said:


> Eastwest Symphonic Orchestra just for fun. I was NOT expecting this to sound so good!
> 
> View attachment holyshit.mp3


That library still has quite a few gems! Unfortunately there’s no legato.


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## José Herring (Dec 28, 2022)

I like music said:


> Do you have CSS too? Do they go together well?


No I don't. Up until recently I didn't like the sound of CSS. Now I'm starting to really like it. I'll be 55 in a few days. Maybe it takes time for my 55 year old years to get use to a new aesthetic but lately I'm like DAMN CSS sounds good.

But, Ana K. has a great video going over CSS and CS2.0 and I'd defer to her opinion on both these libraries and not mine.


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## Henning (Dec 28, 2022)

CS2 has still some cool stuff to offer. The legatos and higher octave violin shorts have not aged so well but the cello and bass shorts are really fat and crisp without being muddy.


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## I like music (Dec 28, 2022)

José Herring said:


> No I don't. Up until recently I didn't like the sound of CSS. Now I'm starting to really like it. I'll be 55 in a few days. Maybe it takes time for my 55 year old years to get use to a new aesthetic but lately I'm like DAMN CSS sounds good.
> 
> But, Ana K. has a great video going over CSS and CS2.0 and I'd defer to her opinion on both these libraries and not mine.


Yeah she's great. I'll check the vids out. (BTW CSS is just amazing imo!)



Henning said:


> CS2 has still some cool stuff to offer. The legatos and higher octave violin shorts have not aged so well but the cello and bass shorts are really fat and crisp without being muddy.


Thanks. Will go on a little YT binge now just to double-check this library.


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## Chris_B (Dec 28, 2022)

Been trying to import Dan's midi into Cubase 12 so I can do a test with Nucleus but all I get after the import is blank tracks- no notes. Anyone else had success importing this into Cubase? --Thanks!


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## ridgero (Dec 28, 2022)

Chris_B said:


> Been trying to import Dan's midi into Cubase 12 so I can do a test with Nucleus but all I get after the import is blank tracks- no notes. Anyone else had success importing this into Cubase? --Thanks!



Scroll to the right


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## Chris_B (Dec 28, 2022)

LOL and thanks. There it is starting in bar 143.


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## oxo (Dec 28, 2022)

for people who want to compare pacific and vista:

dan´s beautiful rachmaninoff file, strings only, raw copy & paste without optimization
both versions were each recorded including with their bonus 3 violins fff

pacific - default panning, default mics (CL + AB)
View attachment rachmaninoff 2-2 pacific plus.mp3


vista - default panning, default mics (DC)

View attachment rachmaninoff 2-2 vista plus.mp3


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## Symfoniq (Dec 28, 2022)

I bought Pacific yesterday, so this is my last pass with Modern Scoring Strings before I go play with Jasper's latest release.

I was getting tired of MSS's default, built-in EQ and Reverb, so I turned them off and threw on some light EQ and Cinematic Rooms. I think I got the rebows figured out (it wasn't obvious at first that the "repeat" note needed to drag out the full length of the rebowed sustain).

Thanks to Dan for providing the MIDI.

View attachment Rach_MSS_Processed.mp3


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## Chris_B (Dec 28, 2022)

Using Dan's midi: Audio Imperia Nucleus Orch. Core, Classic mix, no reverb.

No EQ
View attachment Nucleus-strings test-v02a-no EQ.mp3


With minor EQ to mellow out the violin I's
View attachment Nucleus-strings test-v02a-violins I EQ.mp3


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 28, 2022)

Chris_B said:


> Using Dan's midi: Audio Imperia Nucleus Orch. Core, Classic mix, no reverb.
> 
> No EQ
> View attachment Nucleus-strings test-v02a-no EQ.mp3
> ...


Isn't there a smoother legato option? That detache marcato leg doesn't cut it. I don't know the library. maybe it's gear towards action more?


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## José Herring (Dec 28, 2022)

Has anybody tried it with Appasionata strings by Spitfire yet?


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 28, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Has anybody tried it with Appasionata strings by Spitfire yet?


Page 14 post #261


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## Chris_B (Dec 28, 2022)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Isn't there a smoother legato option? That detache marcato leg doesn't cut it. I don't know the library. maybe it's gear towards action more?


Out of the box legato for violins, sustained for violas (no legato), legato for cellos. No marcato in Nucleus.


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## zeng (Dec 28, 2022)

oxo said:


> for people who want to compare pacific and vista:
> 
> dan´s beautiful rachmaninoff file, strings only, raw copy & paste without optimization
> both versions were each recorded including with their bonus 3 violins fff
> ...


why they sound VERY similar to me?


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## jazzman7 (Dec 29, 2022)

zeng said:


> why they sound VERY similar to me?


Vista has a dull, almost muffled sound in comparison to Pacific.

I do notice that the same copy/paste midi yields much stronger Low end levels for Vista compared to Pacific, but the relative levels are not really a big deal since mixing would take care of quite a bit of that.

Vista can be brightened up, but not by very much. I've played with EQ on it several times and any adjustments have to be very judicious. A little subtractive EQ on the Low/Mid buildup is the first and single most helpful move.

Truth be told, once I got CSS and SAS, Vista has been relegated to a layer that sometimes helps SAS be a bit more emotive. A little Vista legato can go a long way.

From what I've heard of the Demos, CSS and Pacific are the most similar to my ears. CSS sounded somehow a bit more lively on the Rach example and Pacific sounded bigger and smoother.


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## oxo (Dec 29, 2022)

zeng said:


> why they sound VERY similar to me?


i was surprised too. if you play a single instrument, vista and pacific sound very different. in this case, when all the strings play together, it sounds very similar (except panning and room).


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## Rob (Dec 29, 2022)

same Rachmaninoff with Soaring Strings... passionate, even too much maybe, with a strange tendency to sound "empty" in a way, had to boost middle frequencies quite a bit:

View attachment Rachmaninoff 2-2 Strings-SoaringStgs.mp3


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## Dan (Dec 29, 2022)

Chris_B said:


> LOL and thanks. There it is starting in bar 143.


Haha. My bad. 🙈 I fixed the file (and also replaced it in the original post).

It's really interesting to hear all the different versions of this.


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## EricValette (Dec 29, 2022)

Thanks to all contributors for all the great examples in this thread!

I try to convince myself that I don't need this new library by always trying to deepen the use of what I already have, but this magnificent warm and "vintage" sound is really very attractive. I already have Vista but the small size of the sections makes it tricky to use to simulate larger ensemble (except in a layering situation, in my case with CSS).

Here's a mock-up of "Binary Sunset" from Star Wars made quickly with CSS, I will be curious and grateful if someone could render this with Pacific so that I can see this what could it give? MIDI file is added to this message. Thanks


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## MaxOctane (Dec 29, 2022)

Dan said:


> Sure. In the post below this one you will find a midi file for the string parts + audio of the woodwinds and brass.


Amazing comparison, @Dan!

Some are better or worse, but the truth is they all sound pretty damn good. 

Really, this raises again the terrible question... what if (_just maybe_) the quality of the composition and orchestration is overwhelmingly more important than the choice of sample library? Scary to think about.


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## axb312 (Dec 29, 2022)

Can we maybe do the comparisons in a different thread? I was hoping for actual Examples using Pacific strings here.


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## august80 (Dec 29, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Can we maybe do the comparisons in a different thread? I was hoping for actual Examples using Pacific strings here.


 I think these threads generally turn into a nervous breakdown of people realizing their current libraries already sound amazing and instead of learning those libraries they get convinced to buy yet another new library that...one year from now...will be compared to another new library where they'll start the process all over again. It's a never ending cycling.


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## Ricgus3 (Dec 29, 2022)

EricValette said:


> Thanks to all contributors for all the great examples in this thread!
> 
> I try to convince myself that I don't need this new library by always trying to deepen the use of what I already have, but this magnificent warm and "vintage" sound is really very attractive. I already have Vista but the small size of the sections makes it tricky to use to simulate larger ensemble (except in a layering situation, in my case with CSS).
> 
> Here's a mock-up of "Binary Sunset" from Star Wars made quickly with CSS, I will be curious and grateful if someone could render this with Pacific so that I can see this what could it give? MIDI file is added to this message. Thanks



Sounds great!


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## ridgero (Dec 29, 2022)

EricValette said:


> Thanks to all contributors for all the great examples in this thread!
> 
> I try to convince myself that I don't need this new library by always trying to deepen the use of what I already have, but this magnificent warm and "vintage" sound is really very attractive. I already have Vista but the small size of the sections makes it tricky to use to simulate larger ensemble (except in a layering situation, in my case with CSS).
> 
> Here's a mock-up of "Binary Sunset" from Star Wars made quickly with CSS, I will be curious and grateful if someone could render this with Pacific so that I can see this what could it give? MIDI file is added to this message. Thanks



This is a great sounding mockup ❤️


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## tebling (Dec 29, 2022)

EricValette said:


> Here's a mock-up of "Binary Sunset" from Star Wars made quickly with CSS, I will be curious and grateful if someone could render this with Pacific so that I can see this what could it give? MIDI file is added to this message. Thanks


CSS (+CSB, CSW, and CineHarps):

View attachment Binary Sunset CSS.mp3


Pacific:

View attachment Binary Sunset Pacific.mp3


Notes:

- This is through the Project Colossal based template, so CSS will sound different than your original mockup.
- String levels for each library were matched against each other.
- I didn't adjust any of the MIDI for Pacific, apart from tightening up the tremolo transitions a bit near the start.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 29, 2022)

tebling said:


> CSS (+CSB, CSW, and CineHarps):
> 
> View attachment Binary Sunset CSS.mp3
> 
> ...


Are those clicks in the Pacific version (around :12) coming from Pacific? They don’t happen in the CSS version.


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## tebling (Dec 29, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Are those clicks in the Pacific version (around :12) coming from Pacific? They don’t happen in the CSS version.


Yep, D3 in the violin trems has a noticeable looping click.


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## EricValette (Dec 29, 2022)

tebling said:


> CSS (+CSB, CSW, and CineHarps):
> 
> View attachment Binary Sunset CSS.mp3
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, I really appreciate!

For the Pacific version, I like this warm and somewhat "vintage" sound which corresponds very well to the spirit of the piece. 
However, there is something holding me back. As if the sound was "restricted" (but this must surely be able to be fixed with the appropriate custom mix), the CSS version rendered with the PCT "sings" more I find.
Anyway, I think I'm going to stick with my current tools and if a project calls for this type of sound, and I can't get it done using Vista blended to something else, I'll consider that option. 

Thank you again!


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## EricValette (Dec 29, 2022)

ridgero said:


> This is a great sounding mockup ❤️


Thank you so much!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 29, 2022)

EricValette said:


> Thank you so much, I really appreciate!
> 
> For the Pacific version, I like this warm and somewhat "vintage" sound which corresponds very well to the spirit of the piece.
> However, there is something holding me back. As if the sound was "restricted" (but this must surely be able to be fixed with the appropriate custom mix), the CSS version rendered with the PCT "sings" more I find.
> ...


Agree that PCT CSS sounds great here. I wonder how the CineSaga Hollywood Scoring template would sound for CSS as well. Pacific also sounds good - but maybe is redundant if you have CSS (for this type of piece at least).



tebling said:


> Yep, D3 in the violin trems has a noticeable looping click.


I thought all that editing time Jasper put in was so these types of issues didn't slip through. It's almost like you bought a Spitfire library instead! (Jk, their recent ones are much better in terms of editing I've found) Well, hopefully these are being reported and he'll fix them.


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## Dan (Dec 29, 2022)

EricValette said:


> Thanks to all contributors for all the great examples in this thread!
> 
> I try to convince myself that I don't need this new library by always trying to deepen the use of what I already have, but this magnificent warm and "vintage" sound is really very attractive. I already have Vista but the small size of the sections makes it tricky to use to simulate larger ensemble (except in a layering situation, in my case with CSS).
> 
> Here's a mock-up of "Binary Sunset" from Star Wars made quickly with CSS, I will be curious and grateful if someone could render this with Pacific so that I can see this what could it give? MIDI file is added to this message. Thanks



Here is my attempt. Pacific with Berlin Orchestra and a bit of Berlin Studio reverb to glue it all together.

View attachment Binary Sunset Pacific.mp3


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## NoamL (Dec 29, 2022)

Rob said:


> same Rachmaninoff with Soaring Strings... passionate, even too much maybe, with a strange tendency to sound "empty" in a way, had to boost middle frequencies quite a bit:
> 
> View attachment Rachmaninoff 2-2 Strings-SoaringStgs.mp3


I really like this library but it doesn't have low enough dynamics available and that shows here, particularly on the violins. However when you want a foregrounded, passionately played melody this library shines.



august80 said:


> I think these threads generally turn into a nervous breakdown of people realizing their current libraries already sound amazing and instead of learning those libraries they get convinced to buy yet another new library that...one year from now...will be compared to another new library where they'll start the process all over again. It's a never ending cycling.



When BSS came out there was a 73 page thread for it... 262 page thread for Modern Scoring Strings... and here people are comparing Pacific to CSS 



Dan said:


> Here is my attempt. Pacific with Berlin Orchestra and a bit of Berlin Studio reverb to glue it all together.
> 
> View attachment Binary Sunset Pacific.mp3



Wow.

I think the sustains feel as alive as CSS or maybe even a bit more alive. The main thing that's making the difference for me though are the larger section sizes. It feels like a symphonic orchestra now.


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## eric_w (Dec 29, 2022)

tebling said:


> CSS (+CSB, CSW, and CineHarps):
> 
> View attachment Binary Sunset CSS.mp3
> 
> ...


The hall is very transparent in the Pacific version, sounds beautiful. Are you adding any verb to that?


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## tebling (Dec 29, 2022)

eric_w said:


> The hall is very transparent in the Pacific version, sounds beautiful. Are you adding any verb to that?


Yes, it's being routed through the Project Colossal string group (same as the CSS version), which uses a combination of Cinematic Rooms and Pro-R.


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## Soundbed (Dec 29, 2022)

Symfoniq said:


> I bought Pacific yesterday, so this is my last pass with Modern Scoring Strings before I go play with Jasper's latest release.
> 
> I was getting tired of MSS's default, built-in EQ and Reverb, so I turned them off and threw on some light EQ and Cinematic Rooms. I think I got the rebows figured out (it wasn't obvious at first that the "repeat" note needed to drag out the full length of the rebowed sustain).
> 
> ...


You're definitely getting closer! I'm working on mine now. Not sure how different / similar it will sound... I am going to use auto divisi on the violas which will be fun! The legato transitions have slightly more "overlap" than the longest default window ("slow" is 40ms and the MIDI has ~48ms overlap) so I get to play with the auto divisi custom area, which I don't usually do (just so I am not changing the MIDI, yet).


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## axb312 (Dec 29, 2022)




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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 29, 2022)

Symfoniq said:


> I bought Pacific yesterday, so this is my last pass with Modern Scoring Strings before I go play with Jasper's latest release.
> 
> I was getting tired of MSS's default, built-in EQ and Reverb, so I turned them off and threw on some light EQ and Cinematic Rooms. I think I got the rebows figured out (it wasn't obvious at first that the "repeat" note needed to drag out the full length of the rebowed sustain).
> 
> ...


You might as well use the sustain articulation. Seriously what's up with that? I'm not blaming you but the notes are not connected at all. Maybe it's the library or there are settings you're not aware of but this is pretty bad. I know MSS has a lot going for it but the legatos are clearly not one of those things if this the best they can do. I remember LASS having better legatos. Rant over.


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## Soundbed (Dec 29, 2022)

NoamL said:


> I really like this library but it doesn't have low enough dynamics available and that shows here, particularly on the violins. However when you want a foregrounded, passionately played melody this library shines.


Well, there are four dynamic levels of legato (5 for sustains) and there is a niente patch ... maybe the mod wheel moves can be "stretched" to reach lower lows and the niente ("To Silence") switch could help bring out those pp layers? I don't have it on a drive that's plugged in right now or I'd test quickly. Some of the Soundcloud demos also seem to have a good rep of the quieter side... (?) maybe?


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## Symfoniq (Dec 29, 2022)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> You might as well use the sustain articulation. Seriously what's up with that? I'm not blaming you but the notes are not connected at all. Maybe it's the library or there are settings you're not aware of but this is pretty bad. I know MSS has a lot going for it but the legatos are clearly not one of those things if this the best they can do. I remember LASS having better legatos. Rant over.


Wow. Tell us how you really feel. 😄

The settings are all “auto” to ensure the sound is as out-of-the-box as possible. Among other things, that means MSS is choosing the transition speed and transition volume. “Molto” vibrato is also enabled because that’s default, which might be making things lumpier. It could probably sound better with more tweaking of the advanced features.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 29, 2022)

Symfoniq said:


> Wow. Tell us how you really feel. 😄
> 
> The settings are all “auto” to ensure the sound is as out-of-the-box as possible. Among other things, that means MSS is choosing the transition speed and transition volume. “Molto” vibrato is also enabled because that’s default, which might be making things lumpier. It could probably sound better with more tweaking of the advanced features.


Yea that explains a lot. Thanks.


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## Vik (Dec 29, 2022)

NoamL said:


> it doesn't have low enough dynamics available and that shows here, particularly on the violins


It actually has 5 dynamic layers, but it's a very 'simple' library compared with libraries like Pacific and MSS – maybe the most quiet layers weren't intended for melodic work.

View attachment Soaring dynamics b.mp3


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## Symfoniq (Dec 29, 2022)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Yea that explains a lot. Thanks.


Sure thing.

Also, MSS had legato lookahead enabled. Someone more experienced with the library than me will have to weigh in on whether better transitions can be obtained with lookahead disabled. I won’t be able to experiment more before tomorrow.


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## Nullhertz (Dec 29, 2022)

Started a quick mockup of this track (at least part of it) with Pacific Strings. So far I only used the short articulations here. Spiccatos, Pizzicatos and the Harp.

View attachment Dumbledore's Army_02.mp3


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## NoamL (Dec 29, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Well, there are four dynamic levels of legato (5 for sustains) and there is a niente patch ... maybe the mod wheel moves can be "stretched" to reach lower lows and the niente ("To Silence") switch could help bring out those pp layers? I don't have it on a drive that's plugged in right now or I'd test quickly. Some of the Soundcloud demos also seem to have a good rep of the quieter side... (?) maybe?



Yeah perhaps lower CC1 + niente could work better. I think this library's Whisper Sustains are so usable... that's where I'll turn for any quiet writing.



Reasy said:


> Started a quick mockup of this track (at least part of it) with Pacific Strings. So far I only used the short articulations here. Spiccatos, Pizzicatos and the Harp.
> 
> View attachment Dumbledore's Army_02.mp3



speaking of dynamic range! there's no machine gunning here and a ton of interpretative room between mp and mf. Great to listen to.


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## Soundbed (Dec 29, 2022)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Yea that explains a lot. Thanks.


Not sure what it explains (?) but I can try to add some color based on my explorations. 1st, Molto doesn't make things lumpier in MSS. And the auto settings aren't inherently "bad" or disconnected or just like sustains, imho. More below.

I _think_ there are simple adjustments I'm making that will help MSS sound more "romantic" to suit this piece. Of course, I'm not a card-carrying member of the LP (legato police). Can't work on it more until a couple more hours have passed... need to deliver something first.



Symfoniq said:


> MSS had legato lookahead enabled. Someone more experienced with the library than me will have to weigh in on whether better transitions can be obtained with lookahead disabled.


No, I wouldn't say MSS has "better" or "worse" transitions with lookahead enabled VS disabled. But, things will sound disjointed if negative track delays don't correspond to the lookahead values displayed in the GUI of each section / instrument, according to the features enabled or disabled (like the various auto divisi settings, which can change the value of the negative track delay required).

By the way, this is similar to Pacific, which shows the sample offset in the legato GUI just like MSS. The difference is that MSS will show offsets accounting for enabled features.


Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I know MSS has a lot going for it but the legatos are clearly not one of those things if this the best they can do.


MSS has lots of legato choices and options.

"Best" legato is going to be context-dependent.

Pacific probably sounds "lumpy" to some people, on many of the transitions — at least, I start hearing what people tend to call "lumps" or volume bumps in Pacific, after contrasting with MSS. Of course this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Because Pacific has a natural swell just before/during many transitions that makes a *gasp* volume "bump". But, Pacific sounds good in this romantic style. (I remember someone really being annoyed by these "bumps" in Vista or Con Moto, and vastly preferred TSS ... can't recall who.)

MSS's auto settings seem designed to avoid volume bumps, to smooth the volume of the transitions out. The MSS auto settings are geared toward an aesthetic that is not necessarily going to have a small bump or swell into a transition, like Pacific does (more prominently in some intervals than others). But this is, I think, easily adjusted by turning off the auto transition volume and turning it up (you could leave the transition speed on auto).

So, again, I think better and best legato are context-dependent.



NoamL said:


> The idea of volume fading is less attractive to me now that the true full dynamic range of strings has been captured in several great libraries. I'll be using the heck out of those Whisper Sustains.


The whisper sustains are great! I guess I see what you mean about volume fades. So, forget the To Silence control. I still wonder what simply moving the mod wheel nearer the bottom might have sounded like ... but maybe it wouldn't have made much difference.


----------



## Kony (Dec 29, 2022)




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## soulofsound (Dec 29, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> You're definitely getting closer! I'm working on mine now. Not sure how different / similar it will sound... I am going to use auto divisi on the violas which will be fun! The legato transitions have slightly more "overlap" than the longest default window ("slow" is 40ms and the MIDI has ~48ms overlap) so I get to play with the auto divisi custom area, which I don't usually do (just so I am not changing the MIDI, yet).


My hunch is the CC1 data should be a little stretched (more dynamic range) for MSS and pulled 10 or 20 lower compared to Pacific. Not sure, but that's how it sounds to me.


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## Blake Ewing (Dec 29, 2022)

Dan said:


> Sure. In the post below this one you will find a midi file for the string parts + audio of the woodwinds and brass.
> 
> Inspired by your request, I decided to just go ahead and start a comparison myself. In each version the strings are completely unprocessed (including without additional reverb) to give an impression of how each library sounds out of the box. CC data was edited for each library to create the best possible sound in the given time.
> 
> ...



Fun, here are a couple more (strings only - copy/paste - no fx).

Nashville (Decca)
View attachment Nashville.mp3


Century (Decca)
View attachment Century.mp3


Nashville + Century
View attachment Nashville + Century.mp3


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## Nashi_VI (Dec 29, 2022)

Kony said:


>



To be fair, he probably could have just used the worst sounding strings library out there and this piece still would have sounded like a real session recording, this right there is what you can achieve with samples if you are a top tier pro in this business.

Incoming people insinuating that i must have never heard real session recordings in 3..2...1


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## FrozenIcicle (Dec 29, 2022)

Nashi_VI said:


> To be fair, he probably could have just used the worst sounding strings library out there and this piece still would have sounded like a real session recording, this right there is what you can achieve with samples if you are a top tier pro in this business.
> 
> Incoming people insinuating that i must have never heard real session recordings in 3..2...1


To be fair there would be custom samples too, but @Blakus is a boss and pacific is just amazing and that orchestration is mint


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## Nashi_VI (Dec 29, 2022)

FrozenIcicle said:


> To be fair there would be custom samples too, but @Blakus is a boss and pacific is just amazing and that orchestration is mint


Yeah, that was a given that there are probably custom samples in there.....and probably some of them are also made by Jasper.


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## Niah2 (Dec 29, 2022)

Kony said:


>



Magnificent !


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 29, 2022)

As I was curious, I ran Dan's Rachmaninoff's strings MIDI through the CineSaga "Hollywood Scoring Stages" template (CSS). This is pretty much the template out of the box, outside a slight bit of volume leveling. No changes to the MIDI. Using CSS's low latency legato for the most part.

View attachment RachNo2-CineSaga.mp3


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## Vik (Dec 29, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Can we maybe do the comparisons in a different thread? I was hoping for actual Examples using Pacific strings here.


I think I agree. Threads comparing lots of libraries using the same composition will mean a lot of posts (this thread is a week old, and has already 400 posts), and these posts are of course interesting for (potential) owners of other libraries as well, so why not have a dedicated thread for such cases, and have the main focus on Pacific demos here?


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## Soundbed (Dec 29, 2022)

soulofsound said:


> My hunch is the CC1 data should be a little stretched (more dynamic range) for MSS and pulled 10 or 20 lower compared to Pacific. Not sure, but that's how it sounds to me.


To "stretch" (or condense) the dynamic range and response in MSS, slide the dyn curve and vel curve controls to the left or right (without changing the midi). Similar to Synchron player but there are more shapes to bend the curves into, I believe. Or, draw your own curve.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Dec 29, 2022)

Very quick test while integrating it into my template. Some rough velocity programming on my end.
Nice effect to layer pizzicatos and spiccatos at low velocity, which happens in the beginning with the violas.

Just a bit of EQ, Abbey Road Saturator from Waves (no saturation, just the "compander", it's magic) and some dynamics compression on the interface B section.


----------



## Dan (Dec 29, 2022)

Today I somehow thought of this beautiful moment from the "Unbreakable" score by James Newton Howard and decided to try it out with Pacific Strings. I transcribed it by ear so the arrangement might not exactly follow the score 100%, but it's as close as I could get.

View attachment Unbreakable Pacific.mp3


"The Wreck" (ca. 1:38-2:51)


----------



## Vik (Dec 29, 2022)

Just came across this:


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## Vlzmusic (Dec 29, 2022)

Kony said:


>



Overall the track is top notch - but these could be any strings really, as long as they are so laid back. Moreover, you can clearly hear violins move from note to note in pretty abrupt fashion, no real life bowing to talk about.

Strangely enough Pacific had some staggering demos prior to release, but ever since given to the public, the examples are all over the place, in terms of phrasing at least. No bulletproof alas 😞


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## BasariStudios (Dec 29, 2022)

So the Conclusion is...are these the Best there Are?
What happens if I buy these too? Instant JW?


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 29, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> Strangely enough Pacific had some staggering demos prior to release, but ever since given to the public, the examples are all over the place, in terms of phrasing at least. No bulletproof I guess.


It’s almost as if people need a little time and learning curve with a library.


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## Vlzmusic (Dec 29, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> It’s almost as if people need a little time and learning curve with a library.


Wasn't "it just works" the tagline?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 29, 2022)

Can someone who owns PS please check something? In the freebie Violin sustains sordino patch, E4 has an artefact when played with the MOD wheel at 50% or less. It sounds like one of the players moving their chair or something. I'm assuming (hoping!) these were cleaned up.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 29, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> Wasn't "it just works" the tagline?


It does for me. But I haven’t had time to do proper mock-ups yet with it. Just noodle.

But not all musicians/creators are created equal and some people are used to certain workflows.

Libraries don’t write the music for us.

Finesse. Touch. Ear.

Can’t teach it.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (Dec 29, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> Overall the track is top notch - but these could be any strings really, as long as they are so laid back. Moreover, you can clearly hear violins move from note to note in pretty abrupt fashion, no real life bowing to talk about.
> 
> Strangely enough Pacific had some staggering demos prior to release, but ever since given to the public, the examples are all over the place, in terms of phrasing at least. No bulletproof I guess.


I think raw examples of people playing around with a library are the best way to judge a library.

I never ever refer to user compositions or official demos as reference for whether a library is interesting or not.
Some people might do so much work to them that it either sounds much better or worse than you'd receive it and it's hard to tell what's being done.
Or it's just not used in a way I'd use it musically or buried in context. It's all completely normal and the reason I ignore demos, unless I just want to listen to the "track". 

Sure in such plonk-about-videos or examples there might still be particularly poor or good performance at play, but still much more raw and telling of what will land on your drive.


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## BasariStudios (Dec 29, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> I think raw examples of people playing around with a library are the best way to judge a library.


Probably the worst way to judge a Library or any Sound Source for that matter. Nobody makes Music with Raw Sounds...i wanna hear what it could do not what it sounds like RAW. If i was listening to Raw stuff Demos i would most likely not own a single VST things.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 29, 2022)

Someone say raw?


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## Soundbed (Dec 29, 2022)

Dan said:


> Spitfire Symphonic Strings (Performance Legato):
> View attachment Spitfire Symphonic Strings Performance Legato.mp3
> 
> 
> ...


Here's one of my MSS attempts. fwiw I think Pacific does this style better (at least in Dan's example).

I started with the Unprocessed snapshots, turned up the legato volume on the high strings "just a touch", and sent to Cinematic Rooms. Added a couple port transitions, but they get schmaltzy real quick. Changed some of Dan's MIDI (for better or worse) and rebalanced sections a bit.

No EQ whatsoever, even though I think it would sound better with a little "syrup" EQ and a tape emulation, to get that vintage-y Pacific vibe. That's just me tho. 🤷‍♂️

One thing I noticed ... I would probably change the tempo map a bit, to match better with the MSS transitions ... although now that I say that, I didn't really play with the transition speed controls.

Anyway, Pacific rules for this style, but here's another MSS comparison just for giggles.

MSS, No EQ, Tweaks to the Auto Legato Settings:

View attachment Rachmaninoff MSS No EQ Louder Legato.mp3


EDIT: Here's a version using MSS with EQ and Tape Emulation, with a few more tweaks, for better or worse:
View attachment Rachmaninoff MSS TAPE EQ.mp3


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## Soundbed (Dec 29, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> I think raw examples of people playing around with a library are the best way to judge a library.


I agree, I make decisions by hearing someone play with what's going to arrive on my drive. Hearing how they worked it into a mix is nice, but not enough.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 29, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> I think raw examples of people playing around with a library are the best way to judge a library.


I agree. I want to hear a libraries’ warts and all….right out of the box. Pro demos are also nice of course, but I want to know the reality of what I’d be dealing with.


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## Blakus (Dec 29, 2022)

Raw walkthroughs with noodling are by far the best way for me to evaluate a library too. I find them much more revealing of usability and sound.


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## cloudesky (Dec 29, 2022)

Dan said:


> Today I somehow thought of this beautiful moment from the "Unbreakable" score by James Newton Howard and decided try it out with Pacific Strings. I transcribed it by ear so the arrangement might not exactly follow the score 100%, but it's as close as I could get.
> 
> View attachment Unbreakable Pacific.mp3
> 
> ...


That sounds really good Dan. Do you mind sharing the midi for this one too? It's not to compare another string library, it's just for my own learning purposes.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 29, 2022)

BasariStudios said:


> Probably the worst way to judge a Library or any Sound Source for that matter. Nobody makes Music with Raw Sounds...i wanna hear what it could do not what it sounds like RAW. If i was listening to Raw stuff Demos i would most likely not own a single VST things.


That is such a strange statement. 

Watching people noodling with the patchs is as close as it gets to trying it yourself. You can see the keys, the fingers and what the modwheel is doing and hear the result. Sure there is value in the demos but the walkthrough are much revealing.


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## Stevie (Dec 29, 2022)

Blakus said:


> Raw walkthroughs with noodling are by far the best way for me to evaluate a library too. I find them much more revealing of usability and sound.


Highly depends on the noodler!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 29, 2022)

Blakus said:


> Raw walkthroughs with noodling are by far the best way for me to evaluate a library too. I find them much more revealing of usability and sound.


Actually, your noodling with the “whisper sustains” are what totally sold me on PS.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 30, 2022)

I always thought CSS did poorly against Spitfire and others in comparative doodling way back on Youtube in sound quality. Yet when I heard CSS in a full mockup, I admit I did a double take. 

CSS is now my current main String Library. CSS has had this odd way of suffering in individual sound comparisons and then killing it when you use it full bore. I don't think the issue is doodles or context, but rather doodles AND context that looks best. 

I am now considering adding Pacific to the toolkit but I am a bit conflicted. A different, bigger, smoother color.... but really necessary? 

CSS is my main and SAS (occasionally Vista) my alt legato. Other Strings may be layered in for different situations and different colors. Where would Pacific fit in? 

From what I've heard, Pacific for Larger Symphonic works would become the meat and potatoes with CSS and SAS layering or handling certain needed arts Pacific does not cover. 

I also own AROOF, BBCSO, SONOKINETIC, SUNSET, VISTA, CON MOTO, TOKYO, etc so I have a ton of layering and color options already. 

I do find myself Impressed with Pacific at times, but not excited. Feels like another color, but not a game changer. Now once I have it (and learn how to use it) its subtlety and power may quietly make it the game changer I was looking for after all. If I go with it, that would probably be the bet I'd be making. 

Glad for the long sale period. Since I'm loyalty, I almost feel like I have to at this price, but I'm not comfortable or that enthused. So I think I'll have to really feel my way along...almost by instinct on this one.

There has been a lot of great tire kicking on this thread which has been really useful. Thanks to all!


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## Lionel Schmitt (Dec 30, 2022)

At the end it doesn't matter anyway because in this case we get both demos and noodling. So everyone can be happy haha.


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## I like music (Dec 30, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> At the end it doesn't matter anyway because in this case we get both demos and noodling. So everyone can be happy haha.


We're never happy.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2022)

cloudesky said:


> That sounds really good Dan. Do you mind sharing the midi for this one too? It's not to compare another string library, it's just for my own learning purposes.


Here it is.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 30, 2022)

As requested by @eric_w, here's the video comparing the shorts from Jaeger and Pacific. I threw in CSS as well because it was requested in the youtube comments 



Some thoughts on this comparison: CSS does not only have Spiccato, Staccato and Marcato but also the Staccatissimo articulation, which I included in this video as well. Pacific on the other hand - as you're probably well aware - does not have a dedicated Staccato articulation, but the Marcatos are very flexible and can be used to fake Staccatos, which is exactly what I did, so don't be surprised if you see the text "Pacific Marcato" show up twice.


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## novaburst (Dec 30, 2022)

very nice piece hear from Blakus


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## handz (Dec 30, 2022)

axb312 said:


>



It is beautiful demo but it really not show the string at all, it really can be just any string lib.


Dan said:


> Today I somehow thought of this beautiful moment from the "Unbreakable" score by James Newton Howard and decided to try it out with Pacific Strings. I transcribed it by ear so the arrangement might not exactly follow the score 100%, but it's as close as I could get.
> 
> View attachment Unbreakable Pacific.mp3
> 
> ...


Sounds really really nic, very "live", something I really miss in most libs. 


Baronvonheadless said:


> It’s almost as if people need a little time and learning curve with a library.


Yeah, but when even veteran VST users owning everything on the market struggle with it, it isn't a good sign. I thought that pacific is made with a straightforward approach, not any complicated workflow and learning curve needed.


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## davidson (Dec 30, 2022)

handz said:


> Yeah, but when even veteran VST users owning everything on the market struggle with it, it isn't a good sign. I thought that pacific is made with a straightforward approach, not any complicated workflow and learning curve needed.


To save me going back and reading through the whole thread, please could you briefly summarise the workflow issues people are having with pacific?


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## doctoremmet (Dec 30, 2022)

davidson said:


> To save me going back and reading through the whole thread, please could you briefly summarise the workflow issues people are having with pacific?


Apparently people don't crank out brilliantly sounding demos, 5 seconds after downloading the library. This has been widely frowned upon and had lead to massive disappointment forum-wide. We were promised to all turn into mini-Blakuses overnight.


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## davidson (Dec 30, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Apparently people don't crank out brilliantly sounding demos, 5 seconds after downloading the library. This has been widely frowned upon and had lead to massive disappointment forum-wide. We were promised to all turn into mini-Blakuses overnight.


I was aware second violins weren't included, but no blakuses? That's complete BS


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## Vik (Dec 30, 2022)

davidson said:


> To save me going back and reading through the whole thread, please could you briefly summarise the workflow issues people are having with pacific?


The main topic which has been discussed is probably how one can play in real time without getting portamento transistions when one doesn't want to. It's an issue for some, but for others (eg. @Blakus), it isn't. So there must be a solution!


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## cloudesky (Dec 30, 2022)

Dan said:


> Here it is.


Awesome! Thank you Dan!


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## Cheezus (Dec 30, 2022)

So this library is pretty simple to tweak if you know what you’re doing.

For example, I came up with my own solution for the portamento by fiddling around with the group volume envelopes. As pointed out earlier by someone else, the timbres of the four layers are pretty similar, so you can essentially mute the third and fourth legato transition layers and adjust the volume envelope for the 2nd dynamic (which I found to have the least portamento) so that it covers the mod wheel range of the muted layers. This involves a fair amount of tweaking for group volume and ADSR though.

It’s also very easy to tweak the offset of the sustains to make them more immediate, or move them back so all the articulations have the same delay if you want a workflow similar to audio imperia.

Also I made my own con sordino legato patches inspired by Modern Scoring Strings’ famous spoof legato  Example posted below.

Unfortunately, it is against EULA to share the patches I made, but I might post a guide or two if there’s interest


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## Soundbed (Dec 30, 2022)

Cheezus said:


> So this library is pretty simple to tweak if you know what you’re doing.
> 
> For example, I came up with my own solution for the portamento by fiddling around with the group volume envelopes. As pointed out earlier by someone else, the timbres of the four layers are pretty similar, so you can essentially mute the third and fourth legato transition layers and adjust the volume envelope for the 2nd dynamic (which I found to have the least portamento) so that it covers the mod wheel range of the muted layers. This involves a fair amount of tweaking for group volume and ADSR though.
> 
> ...


Brilliant. It sounds like a great set of skills to share — for monkey-wrenching around in Kontakt — with many unlocked legato sample libs (not only Pacific). I’d be interested in learning how to identify those samples and manipulate them like you describe. I know I could mute them  but not sure how to use the different transitions interchangeably.


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## ka00 (Dec 30, 2022)

Cheezus said:


> I might post a guide or two if there’s interest


It sounds great! There is for interest for sure, haha. It would be fantastic to learn how you did it.


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## I like music (Dec 30, 2022)

Cheezus said:


> So this library is pretty simple to tweak if you know what you’re doing.
> 
> For example, I came up with my own solution for the portamento by fiddling around with the group volume envelopes. As pointed out earlier by someone else, the timbres of the four layers are pretty similar, so you can essentially mute the third and fourth legato transition layers and adjust the volume envelope for the 2nd dynamic (which I found to have the least portamento) so that it covers the mod wheel range of the muted layers. This involves a fair amount of tweaking for group volume and ADSR though.
> 
> ...


Nice! I'd love to see that guide, as I imagine a lot of others would!


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## axb312 (Dec 30, 2022)

Cheezus said:


> So this library is pretty simple to tweak if you know what you’re doing.
> 
> For example, I came up with my own solution for the portamento by fiddling around with the group volume envelopes. As pointed out earlier by someone else, the timbres of the four layers are pretty similar, so you can essentially mute the third and fourth legato transition layers and adjust the volume envelope for the 2nd dynamic (which I found to have the least portamento) so that it covers the mod wheel range of the muted layers. This involves a fair amount of tweaking for group volume and ADSR though.
> 
> ...


Sounds nice. There is interest.


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## Sovereign (Dec 30, 2022)

Cheezus said:


> Also I made my own con sordino legato patches inspired by Modern Scoring Strings’ famous spoof legato  Example posted below.


Am doing the same for the whisper sustains. Should work well.


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## Cheezus (Dec 30, 2022)

Sovereign said:


> Am doing the same for the whisper sustains. Should work well.


Hopefully you’ll get a better result than I have so far. I feel like even dynamic 1 legato is a bit too loud. It’s probably possible to get a usable patch out of it but definitely more work than the spoof sordino I think.


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## ibanez1 (Dec 30, 2022)

Cheezus said:


> Hopefully you’ll get a better result than I have so far. I feel like even dynamic 1 legato is a bit too loud. It’s probably possible to get a usable patch out of it but definitely more work than the spoof sordino I think.


Do you own NSS? The transitions are a bit more subtle. Different rooms but you might be able to blend them well.


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## ScarletJerry (Dec 30, 2022)

Cheezus said:


> So this library is pretty simple to tweak if you know what you’re doing.
> 
> For example, I came up with my own solution for the portamento by fiddling around with the group volume envelopes. As pointed out earlier by someone else, the timbres of the four layers are pretty similar, so you can essentially mute the third and fourth legato transition layers and adjust the volume envelope for the 2nd dynamic (which I found to have the least portamento) so that it covers the mod wheel range of the muted layers. This involves a fair amount of tweaking for group volume and ADSR though.
> 
> ...


Yes, there definitely is interest, especially about the spoof legato trick and how you did it. I was going to attempt the same thing using the WIPS script, but your solution may sound more realistic.

Scarlet Jerry


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## Cheezus (Dec 30, 2022)

ibanez1 said:


> Do you own NSS? The transitions are a bit more subtle. Different rooms but you might be able to blend them well.


I do not. I do own Vista though.


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## SisterFriede (Dec 30, 2022)

I uploaded two little demos. One a comparison in lyrical writing between Nopassionata, CSS and Pacific.
The other is a very short pacific demo with that soaring golden era sound this library is suited so much for.

The lyrical comparison has pacific at a disatvantage because I just got the library an adjsuted the dynamics 2 days after I wrote this and since I'm not yet used to how Pacific behaves it's all a bit suboptimal.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2022)

Why do people keep comparing a symphonic library to a studio library? 

Imo it should be compared to BBCSO strings and OT symphonic etc. 

Different section sizes will sound different. And are used for different styles of music. 

When I think of pacific I think Beethovens and Tchaikovsky’s 5th. 

When I think of css I think of Vivaldi etc.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2022)

We should compare single coil guitars to noise cancelling humbuckers next?


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## SisterFriede (Dec 30, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Why do people keep comparing a symphonic library to a studio library?


What a 'not so nice' and passive-aggressive question is that?
For virtual insturments the sound is mainly in the arrangement and the thing that matters most is how the libraries behave, not what's on the label or how it's marketed. In this case I'm comparing 3 libraries that are either marketed as (Spitfire) or are known for having great legato and the ability to write passionate lines (CSS, Pacific)



> We should compare single coil guitars to noise cancelling humbuckers next?


Well, yes why not? I don't understand why you are posting this?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 30, 2022)

Cheezus said:


> So this library is pretty simple to tweak if you know what you’re doing.
> 
> For example, I came up with my own solution for the portamento by fiddling around with the group volume envelopes. As pointed out earlier by someone else, the timbres of the four layers are pretty similar, so you can essentially mute the third and fourth legato transition layers and adjust the volume envelope for the 2nd dynamic (which I found to have the least portamento) so that it covers the mod wheel range of the muted layers. This involves a fair amount of tweaking for group volume and ADSR though.
> 
> ...


You what would be nice is if you did the same with wisper sustains and add the lower dynamics of the leg patch to create a soft legato patch. And share it with us of course.  Or send it top JB and he can distribute it to us.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 30, 2022)

SisterFriede said:


> What a dumb, passive-aggressive question is that?


What an agressive second ever post on this forum. This is NOT how we interact here typically.


----------



## TomaeusD (Dec 30, 2022)

Kony said:


>



I'm most curious about how @Blakus gets such convincing high woodwind runs and staccatos. Piccolos are almost always the dead giveaway to me in midi mock-ups. Spitfire? Which Albions are used? Really great job.


----------



## axb312 (Dec 30, 2022)

SisterFriede said:


> What a dumb, passive-aggressive question is that?
> For virtual insturments the sound is mainly in the arrangement and the thing that matters most is how the libraries behave, not what's on the label or how it's marketed. In this case I'm comparing 3 libraries that are either marketed as (Spitfire) or are known for having great legato and the ability to write passionate lines (CSS, Pacific)


I appreciate the content but wish people would do more demos which show off the capabilities of Pacific, perhaps demonstrating what is can do better than other libs.

We've had a lot of comparisons in this thread. Not sure why. 

Huge potential in the Golden Era demo btw. Good work.


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## ka00 (Dec 30, 2022)

axb312 said:


> We've had a lot of comparisons in this thread. Not sure why.


I feel like you answered your own question…



axb312 said:


> demonstrating what it can do better than other libs.


How better to demonstrate what it can do better, where it sounds better, how it sounds different than other libraries than to directly provide what you need in this thread to do an A/B comparison?


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## SisterFriede (Dec 30, 2022)

axb312 said:


> We've had a lot of comparisons in this thread. Not sure why.
> 
> Huge potential in the Golden Era demo btw. Good work.


There is value in specific comparisons because for most people any library is always a larger investment. If you're looking for specific things, every bit/clue can help to make an educated decision. I rarely found isolated demos that were able to convince me to buy or stay away from a library, it's too easy to get tricked by expectations or context.

If you only listen to demos with snippets where a library excels at, it might cause some issues. I'd have never had bought Appassionata if I had heard some of the demos outside of its narrow 'comfort zone', only after buying it I knew that it just can't do what I expected it to do from all the marketing.

But that's why I also wrote that "Golden Era" Demo, that's where Pacific shines and I'm looking forward to write more like that with it.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 30, 2022)

SisterFriede said:


> I uploaded two little demos. One a comparison in lyrical writing between Nopassionata, CSS and Pacific.
> The other is a very short pacific demo with that soaring golden era sound this library is suited so much for.
> 
> The lyrical comparison has pacific at a disatvantage because I just got the library an adjsuted the dynamics 2 days after I wrote this and since I'm not yet used to how Pacific behaves it's all a bit suboptimal.



Your demo was really useful, thanks. I might have just been pushed over the edge on my purchase. Those lively transitions give it that Vista's big brother appeal for me!


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2022)

SisterFriede said:


> What a 'not so nice' and passive-aggressive question is that?
> For virtual insturments the sound is mainly in the arrangement and the thing that matters most is how the libraries behave, not what's on the label or how it's marketed. In this case I'm comparing 3 libraries that are either marketed as (Spitfire) or are known for having great legato and the ability to write passionate lines (CSS, Pacific)
> 
> 
> Well, yes why not? I don't understand why you are posting this?


Did I quote you? You weren’t the first and you aren’t the last. There was nothing “not so nice” about my post. Just an observation.

I agree about arrangement and behavior to an extent, but not fully.

Section size and the performance of the musicians being sampled matters.


Apologies for triggering you, but also - don’t come so quickly at me. I bite.

Regarding the guitar point. No. You do not compare the two. They have two specific purposes. And any real guitarist will choose P-90s anyways. 😈

This conversation around Pacific is a bit annoying. And I paid full price it’s not like I’m defending it due to some kind of paid loyalty.

It’s like everyone forgot the description and intent of this library.


Out of MSS, Vista, BBCSO, CSS, Pacific, and Appasionata I will be using CSS & Pacific for general purpose depending on the type of music I’m writing. 

Mainly due to sound/workflow/editing/ease of use. 

I hardly use MSS now. I use it for aleatoric stuff and the rhythm engine/scale engine the most from time to time but the marcatos in pacific and css are preferred since ease of use/sound lining up etc with my other stuff. 

Even tho it’s a great library.

Appasionata will be used when mixing with other air libraries like Fractured strings for consistency, BBCSO strings are hardly used now just because of the way switching works and negative track delay differences.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 30, 2022)

I like the all of the above approach myself. comparing it to anything and everything is a way to see where I'd put in the toolbox...or not at all.


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## axb312 (Dec 30, 2022)

Perhaps the comparisons could be a little better organized? Feel like we have pages of posts with different libraries playing pieces. Bit disorienting for me personally.

Anyhew, I am yet to form an opinion on this library...


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## jazzman7 (Dec 30, 2022)

Let's play nicely, Folks. This place is well moderated and distractions tend to be dealt with quickly


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## jazzman7 (Dec 30, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Perhaps the comparisons could be a little better organized? Feel like we have pages of posts with different libraries playing pieces. Bit disorienting for me personally.
> 
> Anyhew, I am yet to form an opinion on this library...


A thread tends to happen as it happens. It would be nice to organize after the fact, but that's not in my power


----------



## ka00 (Dec 30, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> This conversation around Pacific is a bit annoying.


In such situations, I use the “ignore thread” option.

I’ve found this discussion has been quite in-depth and interesting. Except for the posts trying to convince people to post or to think one way or another. I agree, those have been annoying.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 30, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Perhaps the comparisons could be a little better organized? Feel like we have pages of posts with different libraries playing pieces. Bit disorienting for me personally.


I fully agree.

It would be best to have the relevant demos in the first post and comparative demos (like the different renderings of Rachmaninov) in the second post. 

There were some really great demos posted but it's difficult to find them.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2022)

ka00 said:


> In such situations, I use the “ignore thread” option.
> 
> I’ve found this discussion has been quite in-depth and interesting. Except for the posts trying to convince people to post or to think one way or another. I agree, those have been annoying.


Because there IS interesting information here.

There are also a few expressions that come to mind - trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, and beating a dead horse.

This thread is littered with poor, innocent horses.


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## NoamL (Dec 30, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Why do people keep comparing a symphonic library to a studio library?
> 
> Imo it should be compared to BBCSO strings and OT symphonic etc.
> 
> ...



You inspired me to update this reference table with Pacific and other recent libraries


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## ism (Dec 30, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Why do people keep comparing a symphonic library to a studio library?
> 
> Imo it should be compared to BBCSO strings and OT symphonic etc.
> 
> ...


This is quite a key point. 

I'm not so sure that the sweet spots of these libraries map straightforwardly to classical composers, but your examples really do dramatize the point that straight comparisons, while interesting and sometimes instructive, are in themselves of very limited value. 

If some of the user demos on this thread are a bit underwhelming, I'd argue it's because they try to replicate the sweet spots of previous libraries, rather than splenuking the depths of Pacific for the new sweet spots.


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## R.G. (Dec 30, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Why do people keep comparing a symphonic library to a studio library?
> 
> Different section sizes will sound different. And are used for different styles of music.
> 
> ...



The biggest differences between the two libraries you mentioned are not the section sizes, but the room, mic'ing, engineering, sampling techniques, players, et cetera.

Of these two libs, CSS would be more appropriate for Beethoven overall, not Pacific, whereas nothing mentioned so far would get anywhere close to the Vivaldi time frame in any sense.

Pacific would be okay for Tchaikovsky maybe a quarter of the time at most, except for those troublesome portamentos, which is _not_ how violinists execute position shifts, whether the minimized type or the more overt _espressivo_ type. They can certainly have their uses as a poor substitute that's better than nothing for certain critical points in a phrase, but their implementation here is surprising. At the very least I hope they can be linked to tempo.


----------



## ism (Dec 30, 2022)

ka00 said:


> I feel like you answered your own question…
> 
> 
> How better to demonstrate what it can do better, where it sounds better, how it sounds different than other libraries than to directly provide what you need in this thread to do an A/B comparison?


This is perfectly true - unless the comparisons lock you into the sweet spots of older libraries.


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## ka00 (Dec 30, 2022)

ism said:


> This is perfectly true - unless the comparisons lock you into the sweet spots of older libraries.


Sure. But even that is valuable information. Even if not new information for some.

Is your concern that there are “unfair” match ups between Pacific and other libraries from which people will draw skewed conclusions?

EDIT: never mind, I see that you posted above with an explanation. I think notifications are buggy today.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2022)

R.G. said:


> The biggest differences between the two libraries you mentioned are not the section sizes, but the room, mic'ing, engineering, sampling techniques, players, et cetera.
> 
> Of these two libs, CSS would be more appropriate for Beethoven overall, not Pacific, whereas nothing mentioned so far would get anywhere close to the Vivaldi time frame in any sense.
> 
> Pacific would be okay for Tchaikovsky maybe a quarter of the time at most, except for those troublesome portamentos, which is _not_ how violinists execute position shifts, whether the minimized type or the more overt _espressivo_ type. They can certainly have their uses as a poor substitute that's better than nothing for certain critical points in a phrase, but their implementation here is surprising.


Good points. I know the time frame is an issue but what I meant regarding Vivaldi is the four seasons mock up is perfect with css that I heard. It’s a smaller section size piece at least how I’ve heard it. I am not claiming to be an expert however, this is just from two years of digging into this world/sample world/classical world. 

Thanks for weighing in! 

Also in another post I made my point clearer where you touched on here. Performance of players, intent when designing library etc are all very important. And pacific is a NICHE sort of bread and butter library. But not meant to be a Swiss Army knife exactly like css. 

I dig Jaspers approach. 

And of course, sonically, those performances captured plus section sizes made me compare to those specific composers pieces. I should have also mentioned I meant (the classic opening and following bars of Beethovens 5th and the second movement, quiet string choral of Tchaikovsky’s 5th.)


I still could be wrong. But if anyone wants to quiz/duel me on the Beatles or psych rock you’ll go home crying  

❤️🖤


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## artomatic (Dec 30, 2022)

I think there should be a separate thread for library comparison.
The title of this thread is "*Pacific Strings - user demo thread*".
I would love to hear _demos from this library only_ from users.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 30, 2022)

There are comparisons on here where at least some Lib by Lib optimizations were tried according to the poster. I know nothing will compare to downloading it myself, but I like the page after page of discussion and demos and comparisons. It can get a bit messy, but I have found this thread informative


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## ism (Dec 30, 2022)

ka00 said:


> Sure. But even that is valuable information. Even if not new information for some.
> 
> Is your concern that there are “unfair” match ups between Pacific and other libraries from which people will draw skewed conclusions?


Not really. More that it's naturally going to take some time for everyone to understand the sweet spots of a new library, as has been mentioned. And that in the mean time, comparisons, in practice, often mean trying to fit the round peg of a new library into the square holes of the sweet spots of older libraries. 

And perhaps, very generally that, at its worst, the "comparison" thread risks, for instance, only really tell you what even other library sounds when given, say, CSS midi data, performed to hit the sweet spot of that single library as if it were the single standard bearer of truth. Which it useful information, but on it's own deeply skewed (exaggerating only slightly for effect).



artomatic said:


> I think there should be a separate thread for library comparison.
> The title of this thread is "*Pacific Strings - user demo thread*".
> I would love to hear _demos from this library only_ from users.


I think this is a useful distinction. 

Comparisons are useful in understanding the sweet spots (and not so sweet spots) of a libraries. But comparisons often risk sneaking in an implicit bias towards the sweet spots of a single library from the onset.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 30, 2022)

artomatic said:


> I think there should be a separate thread for library comparison.
> The title of this thread is "*Pacific Strings - user demo thread*".
> I would love to hear _demos from this library only_ from users.


I think a thread like that would be useful for listening, but I also like the reactions from various points of view on this thread. Plenty of people on here whose opinions I respect make various points, sometimes in opposition. This makes it informative. Having both types of threads would be great


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## lettucehat (Dec 30, 2022)

TomaeusD said:


> I'm most curious about how @Blakus gets such convincing high woodwind runs and staccatos. Piccolos are almost always the dead giveaway to me in midi mock-ups. Spitfire? Which Albions are used? Really great job.


Just from what I can see here and in other videos, Albion runs and Strezov flutes (an a2 patch that is a little "out of tune" compared to other libraries) are a big part of it. More subjectively, I think proper distance is a big part of making them work in the context of his productions.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 30, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Good points. I know the time frame is an issue but what I meant regarding Vivaldi is the four seasons mock up is perfect with css that I heard. It’s a smaller section size piece at least how I’ve heard it. I am not claiming to be an expert however, this is just from two years of digging into this world/sample world/classical world.
> 
> Thanks for weighing in!
> 
> ...


OK Dammit. John or Paul?!?


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2022)

jazzman7 said:


> OK Dammit. John or Paul?!?


Only one of them wrote Tomorrow Never Knows, mate  

But their magic was ensemble.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 30, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Only one of them wrote Tomorrow Never Knows, mate
> 
> But their magic was ensemble.


We'll never have a good argument if you keep being exactly right!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 30, 2022)

ka00 said:


> Sure. But even that is valuable information. Even if not new information for some.


Personally, I've found the comparisons valuable as a potential buyer (and Vista owner). There was so much pre-release hype around Pacific - many statements here how this would be the string library to beat all other string libraries and things like that. This thread, including the comparisons, I think has rooted us back in reality. There's clicks and noises and weird programming decisions and challenging phrases for the library to execute - just like EVERY library. Tonally it differs from some libraries - but is quite similar to other ones (that we may already own). In a blind test of those comparisons, I doubt many would be able to identify the libraries on a consistent basis - though the aggressive slurring of Pacific can certainly stand out!

I also think the thread will naturally weight itself towards more Pacific demos as more people write with it and now that a lot of comparisons have been done, probably less of a need to continue them at the same frequency. Not sure why this thread needs censorship. Maybe PS / JB fans are scared the illusion of Pacific will be somewhat shattered when it stands alongside other libraries. Who knows. I favor honest reviews and helpful comparisons.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 30, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Personally, I've found the comparisons valuable as a potential buyer (and Vista owner). There was so much pre-release hype around Pacific - many statements here how this would be the string library to beat all other string libraries and things like that. This thread, including the comparisons, I think has rooted us back in reality. There's clicks and noises and weird programming decisions and challenging phrases for the library to execute - just like EVERY library. Tonally it differs from some libraries - but is quite similar to other ones (that we may already own). In a blind test of those comparisons, I doubt many would be able to identify the libraries on a consistent basis - though the aggressive slurring of Pacific can certainly stand out!


EXACTLY


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## ibanez1 (Dec 30, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Personally, I've found the comparisons valuable as a potential buyer (and Vista owner). There was so much pre-release hype around Pacific - many statements here how this would be the string library to beat all other string libraries and things like that. This thread, including the comparisons, I think has rooted us back in reality. There's clicks and noises and weird programming decisions and challenging phrases for the library to execute - just like EVERY library. Tonally it differs from some libraries - but is quite similar to other ones (that we may already own). In a blind test of those comparisons, I doubt many would be able to identify the libraries on a consistent basis - though the aggressive slurring of Pacific can certainly stand out!
> 
> I also think the thread will naturally weight itself towards more Pacific demos as more people write with it and now that a lot of comparisons have been done, probably less of a need to continue them at the same frequency. Not sure why this thread needs censorship. Maybe PS / JB fans are scared the illusion of Pacific will be somewhat shattered when it stands alongside other libraries. Who knows. I favor honest reviews and helpful comparisons.


I didn't think it would be the library of all libraries even before release. I fell in love with the symphonic sound and the expression in the legatos. The spiccato freebie also sounded amazing so I just wanted more of that. To each their own but this library definitely clicks with me.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 30, 2022)

I was interested in hearing what people would create with Pacific Strings and so I was happy to see this thread. However, the thread has turned out to be a mish mash of audio demos of this and that string library, not just Pacific Strings, so I’ve given up following it. It’s disappointing but oh well, I’ll live.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2022)

If anyone seriously thought any library could be the library to end all libraries…they are…wait we said play nice. 

Seriously though, libraries are just tools for different purposes. 

I love the corner Pacific sits in. 

I love other libraries too. 

What a heretic.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 30, 2022)

ibanez1 said:


> I didn't think it would be the library of all libraries even before release. I fell in love with the symphonic sound and the expression in the legatos. The spiccato freebie also sounded amazing so I just wanted more of that. To each their own but this library definitely clicks with me.


That's great! And hopefully, you have more confidence in buying it now given this thread (based on demos but also perhaps based on comparisons to what you already may have). It's nice to know exactly where it fits into the arsenal.


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I was interested in hearing what people would create with Pacific Strings and so I was happy to see this thread. However, the thread has turned out to be a mish mash of audio demos of this and that string library, not just Pacific Strings, so I’ve given up following it. It’s disappointing but oh well, I’ll live.


That’s what I was irritated by too. This should be filled with user demos and mock ups of pacific strings and there could be a thread dedicated to comparisons.

Both are valuable but can clog a single thread. And obviously comparisons in a commercial thread are a no no. So 🤷🏻‍♂️

What do I know, I’m probably bordering on being the thought police again by offering my opinion! Lol.


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## Larbguy (Dec 30, 2022)

the playability of all the patches, especially the mercatos, is what i had hoped for and really has exceeded my expectations. and the staccato patches can play crazy fast repetition phrases that sound convincing to my ear at least. the delay is also familiar, for any users of other performance samples libraries. after a lot of experience with both oceania choirs, i felt quite at home with how this plays. now i cant wait for the solo strings and other parts...feeling like musicszculp right now lol

edit : for context of my writing style, i've written and performed music for probably 15+ years but mostly as a drummer in punk bands haha. a lot of my approach to orchestral music isn't classical or routed in theory but pretty amateur and i build my stuff around 'riffs' and just using my ear a lot. i feel like this library really suits me in that regard since i may be blissfully ignorant of some of it's lackings in a traditional sense (ie second violins meme, etc). the mercato patches, especially the cellos and basses, can chug out some pretty heavy riffage in a really playable way i haven't found with other libraries (maybe action strings, but these sound was more realistic)


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## SisterFriede (Dec 30, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> That’s what I was irritated by too. This should be filled with user demos and mock ups of pacific strings and there could be a thread dedicated to comparisons.
> 
> Both are valuable but can clog a single thread. And obviously comparisons in a commercial thread are a no no. So 🤷🏻‍♂️
> 
> What do I know, I’m probably bordering on being the thought police again by offering my opinion! Lol.


What do you lose by people posting comparisons? A comparison is still a demo for pacific if you just ignore the rest?! I find this meaningless discussion way worse, because it's just clutter with basically empty off-topic posts. This whole thing is really not as deep or meaningful as you make it out to be.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 30, 2022)

SisterFriede said:


> What do you lose by people posting comparisons? A comparison is still a demo for pacific if you just ignore the rest?! I find this meaningless discussion way worse, because it's just clutter with basically empty off-topic posts. This whole thing is really not as deep or meaningful as you make it out to be.


Well, if you’re interested in audio demos of Pacific Strings, you now have to zig zag through audio demos of Modern Scoring Strings, CSS, Spitfire strings and a plethora of other string libraries in order to find the audio demos you came here for.

If the thread only - or even just mostly - contained Pacific Strings audio demos, you’d be able to scan every page quickly to check if anyone had posted audio demos. Not so now.


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## David Chappell (Dec 30, 2022)

I've been working on integrating Pacific into my template (+ infinite brass and winds), using an excerpt from Hook: Flight to Neverland as a mockup exercise:


View attachment Hook flight to neverland full mix.mp3


And pacific only:
View attachment Hook flight to neverland pacific only.mp3


Small amount of processing on pacific: small dip around 2.5kish, small bit of multiband saturation, run through cinematic rooms, and finally a small high and low end boost on the master. Oh, and a little bit of panning to push the sections wider.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 30, 2022)

David Chappell said:


> I've been working on integrating Pacific into my template (+ infinite brass and winds), using an excerpt from Hook: Flight to Neverland as a mockup exercise:
> 
> 
> View attachment Hook flight to neverland full mix.mp3
> ...


Which articulation patch are you using for the runs?


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## Vik (Dec 30, 2022)

SisterFriede said:


> What do you lose by people posting comparisons?


Not much probably, so far. But when this thread become weeks and months old, the whole thing will become more chaotic than if Pacific user demos had its own thread.

Having said that, a thread with comparisons comparing an increasing amount of pieces would easily become chaotic as well, which is why I think dedicated comparing threads (per piece) would be more interesting. They would also go 'deeper', as they would attract members here who don't visit Pacific threads – if such threads had names like eg. 'Comparing Elgar Nimrod', 'Comparing Barber's Adagio for Strings' and so on.


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## BasariStudios (Dec 30, 2022)

Got my self an SSL Bus Plus, 2 Neve 542s and Wes Hyperion EQ this week so i am all set with Libraries. I learnt that from now on i will spend money on things i can actually touch. It feels amazing...until i buy Pacific Strings too.


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## Vik (Dec 30, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> When I think of pacific I think Beethovens and Tchaikovsky’s 5t



You mean this part, I guess? Who wants to make a Pacific mockup?


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## David Chappell (Dec 30, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Which articulation patch are you using for the runs?


Just the regular legato


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2022)

Vik said:


> You mean this part, I guess? Who wants to make a Pacific mockup?


I’ve been planning to but been resting cuz of this pneumothorax bs. Still plan to tho! Since I don’t read music (yet) it’s been a little tricky picking apart the exact cello/bass melody. The viola part I’ve already got. I just do it by ear usually.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 30, 2022)

David Chappell said:


> Just the regular legato


Got it - perhaps one of the shorts or tremolos would work better? To my ear, that sounded the most "synthy". I imagine the legato is tuned more for slower passages vs. quick ones or runs.


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## David Chappell (Dec 30, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Got it - perhaps one of the shorts or tremolos would work better? To my ear, that sounded the most "synthy". I imagine the legato is tuned more for slower passages vs. quick ones or runs.


Yeah I did try all the possible articulations but they all had shortcomings. Runs definitely seem to be a weaker point of Pacific, at least in my time with it so far. I think, in context, it's passable, but I'd have replaced it with CSS were I not making a point of only using Pacific.


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## Vik (Dec 30, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I’ve been planning to but been resting cuz of this pneumothorax bs. Still plan to tho! Since I don’t read music (yet) it’s been a little tricky picking apart the exact cello/bass melody. The viola part I’ve already got. I just do it by ear usually.


Good luck with pneumothorax situation.

The violin part is A B A A A A – let me know if you want me to spell out the others as well. The MIDI file ('Andante cantabile, con alcuna licenza') can be found here:






Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky. MIDI (free download) & MIDI/ZIP


19,300 well-selected, authorized and free MIDI files of classical music, with the largest MIDI/ZIP collections on the web.



www.kunstderfuge.com


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## RMH (Dec 30, 2022)

Nicola74 said:


> Here is a very short piece with Pacific Strings, just legato. I didn't tweak anything at all, just dynamics with breath controller one section after the other with no metronome, 2nd vlns with the trasposition trick, a little bit of pan and Cinematic Rooms (scoring hall if I remember correctly) as reverb.
> For me the sound is superb, I still have to learn how to use this library, but my first impression is that it sounds simply right out of the box, very musical and consistent.
> I like the slur between the notes, if I need another kind of legato I will use another kind of library.
> View attachment Prova Pacific Strings mp3.mp3


Oh! The song is so good! I also bought the Pacific String and finished installing it. I'm curious about the shape of the modulation green, so can I request a midi file?


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 30, 2022)

Vik said:


> Good luck with pneumothorax situation.
> 
> The violin part is A B A A A A – let me know if you want me to spell out the others as well. The MIDI file ('Andante cantabile, con alcuna licenza') can be found here:
> 
> ...


That would be super helpful actually! 

Also, I’m thinking of the old mortal kombat blood code.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 30, 2022)

I went to see Avatar 2 the other day and really enjoyed the soundtrack - here's a little Avatar-inspired thing I just came up with, using the whisper sustains and vlns 1 legato from Pacific (+ other instruments and a ton of reverb)  
View attachment Pacific x Avatar 2.mp3


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## ibanez1 (Dec 30, 2022)

To add more demos, here is a very rough spiccato noodle I did that tries to build an ostinato across the velocity range:
View attachment PacificNoodleSpiccato.mp3


I've also attached the midi in case others want to run it through other libraries.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 30, 2022)

ibanez1 said:


> To add more demos, here is a very rough spiccato noodle I did that tries to build an ostinato across the velocity range:
> View attachment PacificNoodleSpiccato.mp3
> 
> 
> I've also attached the midi in case others want to run it through other libraries.


Is that the default mix? Any additional reverb? I put your MIDI through SSS, Berlin Symphonic Strings, and Modern Scoring Strings. Out of the box, none had the stereo width or spatial depth as your example.


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## ibanez1 (Dec 30, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Is that the default mix? Any additional reverb? I put your MIDI through SSS, Berlin Symphonic Strings, and Modern Scoring Strings. Out of the box, none had the stereo width or spatial depth as your example.


I used Blakus's advice for panning and his cinematic rooms preset. I should have mentioned that :(. I can easily take off the reverb but I'll need to duplicate the kontakt tracks and reset the panning to get back to default. Maybe from now on i'll post 2 mixdowns of the audio so comparisons can be made with out of the box Pacific.

PS: I also may have panned too aggressively because I don't know what the hell i'm doing . I went by online orchestral seating charts but my "distance from stage" for stereo panning may be way too wide.


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## Casiquire (Dec 30, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> I think raw examples of people playing around with a library are the best way to judge a library.
> 
> I never ever refer to user compositions or official demos as reference for whether a library is interesting or not.
> Some people might do so much work to them that it either sounds much better or worse than you'd receive it and it's hard to tell what's being done.
> ...


This works extremely well sometimes but backfires sometimes too. Most string library noodles I see on YouTube spend 80% of the time playing the first violins in their top two octaves with the modwheel never dropping under 100, -3% of the time showing off the violas doing something silly like tremolo, 20% of the time on cellos just above middle C, then 3% on bass shorts. Which isn't a terrible thing, just a very limited slice, and I think it's really important to hear a whole library playing together with decent programming. Watching videos like that can give me a great idea of what a library feels like to use though which is also really important and hard to understand any other way


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 30, 2022)

ibanez1 said:


> I used Blakus's advice for panning and his cinematic rooms preset


Would you mind posting a screenshot of the Cinematic Rooms preset?


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## ibanez1 (Dec 30, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Would you mind posting a screenshot of the Cinematic Rooms preset?


It's basically just the score stage preset with -9db dry/wet for the mix:


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 30, 2022)

ibanez1 said:


> It's basically just the score stage preset with -9db dry/wet for the mix:


Thanks a lot!


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## ibanez1 (Dec 30, 2022)

Another noodle used on both the sordino and whisper sustains to test dynamic swells. It's loosely based on Follow our brothers from Halo 3 OST and is just doing super simple slow chord swells. Hopefully this is a perfect example to use for those underscore type slow sustain scenarios. These are also using the Blakus panning + reverb advice.

Here's the sordino version:
View attachment PacificNoodleSordino.mp3


And here's the whisper sustain version. Getting serious OACE vibes from this but with the added benefit to change notes during the swell which allows for more complex progressions:
View attachment PacificNoodleWhisperSustains.mp3


I've also attached the midi in case anyone wants to try other libraries for comparison.


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## handz (Dec 31, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I went to see Avatar 2 the other day and really enjoyed the soundtrack - here's a little Avatar-inspired thing I just came up with, using the whisper sustains and vlns 1 legato from Pacific (+ other instruments and a ton of reverb)
> View attachment Pacific x Avatar 2.mp3


oof, I am sorry but as soon as string melody starts to play the transitions kill me, they are jumping all over the place and are super distracting and unnatural to me. Like someone is messing with the pitch bend wheel...


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 31, 2022)

handz said:


> oof, I am sorry but as soon as string melody starts to play the transitions kill me, they are jumping all over the place and are super distracting and unnatural to me. Like someone is messing with the pitch bend wheel...


Fair enough - I kind of see your point. I don't think it's quite as bad, but there's certainly room for improvement. This specific line would probably benefit a lot if there was bow change legato available as well.


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## AlexSonicsMusic (Dec 31, 2022)

Vik said:


> You mean this part, I guess? Who wants to make a Pacific mockup?


Here you go
I added a strings-only version that I left unprocessed.
Version one: Blakus EQ and Cinematic rooms coring stage + reverb double and a bit of saturation.
Version two: Only pacific no processing.

Here's the dawcast: 


View attachment Tshaikovsky V - II Mockup Alex.mp3

View attachment Tshaikovsky V - II Mockup Alex PACIFIC Only.mp3


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## Vik (Dec 31, 2022)

AlexSonicsMusic said:


> Here you go


There was less movement in the strings than this movement usually have, but I like the sound- This was very interesting – thanks a lot!


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## Vik (Dec 31, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> That would be super helpful actually!


I surely can send it to you if you want to experiment with it, but not today!


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## AlexSonicsMusic (Dec 31, 2022)

Vik said:


> There was less movement in the strings than this movement usually have, but I like the sound- This was very interesting – thanks a lot!


I just programmed it to grid no time for proper tempo mapping and the purpose was to showcase the whisper sustains. I will surely get back to this as it is a very special movement for me. I met my wife playing it
Happy it helped


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 31, 2022)

Vik said:


> I surely can send it to you if you want to experiment with it, but not today!


Thank you. No rush at all!


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## Vik (Dec 31, 2022)

I really like the sound of these whispering sustains, especially with some processing. Btw, I didn't think about tempo variations – but you obviously know the piece very well, so I have nothing more to add. Thanks again!


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## Baronvonheadless (Dec 31, 2022)

AlexSonicsMusic said:


> I just programmed it to grid no time for proper tempo mapping and the purpose was to showcase the whisper sustains. I will surely get back to this as it is a very special movement for me. I met my wife playing it
> Happy it helped


yeah no worries, it sounds good for sure thank you. 

So this is only the whisper sustains yes? 

I was noodling with it one day for a little bit trying to figure out the cello line and when I was doing so I thought I would use the whisper sustains too but honestly the legato gets very quiet too and I thought the legato patch fit better. More vibrato. Played around 0-10 on the mod wheel. 

When I get around to doing it I’ll try a version like that, probably the Bernstein version. Love that tempo. 

Thank you for doing yours.


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## I like music (Dec 31, 2022)

AlexSonicsMusic said:


> I just programmed it to grid no time for proper tempo mapping and the purpose was to showcase the whisper sustains. I will surely get back to this as it is a very special movement for me. I met my wife playing it
> Happy it helped


You managed to hit on someone (and successfully so) while playing music? Thought that only happen in movies!

Good job regardless!


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## Lionel Schmitt (Dec 31, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> This works extremely well sometimes but backfires sometimes too. Most string library noodles I see on YouTube spend 80% of the time playing the first violins in their top two octaves with the modwheel never dropping under 100, -3% of the time showing off the violas doing something silly like tremolo, 20% of the time on cellos just above middle C, then 3% on bass shorts. Which isn't a terrible thing, just a very limited slice, and I think it's really important to hear a whole library playing together with decent programming. Watching videos like that can give me a great idea of what a library feels like to use though which is also really important and hard to understand any other way


Yea, maybe we can all just agree that developers could stack up on the demo department with demos that only feature the library + screencasts of these demos and good walkthroughs with lots of playing of all the patches :D


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## Casiquire (Dec 31, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> Yea, maybe we can all just agree that developers could stack up on the demo department with demos that only feature the library + screencasts of these demos and good walkthroughs with lots of playing of all the patches :D


Best of both worlds! I also really like devs who give us the same demo using only the library, both naked and dressed up.


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## TomaeusD (Dec 31, 2022)

lettucehat said:


> Just from what I can see here and in other videos, Albion runs and Strezov flutes (an a2 patch that is a little "out of tune" compared to other libraries) are a big part of it. More subjectively, I think proper distance is a big part of making them work in the context of his productions.


I saw the Alb ww runs, which is why I was wondering what the specific patches are. Which Albion has these WW runs? SO is Strezov? Which library of his has these flutes? I'm super curious about these because most people talk about OT or VSL for convincing woodwinds and I didn't know Albion had good run patches or that Strezov did flutes/woodwinds.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 31, 2022)

TomaeusD said:


> I saw the Alb ww runs, which is why I was wondering what the specific patches are. Which Albion has these WW runs? SO is Strezov? Which library of his has these flutes? I'm super curious about these because most people talk about OT or VSL for convincing woodwinds and I didn't know Albion had good run patches or that Strezov did flutes/woodwinds.











FLUTE Ensemble


The online library for premium sound samples




www.strezov-sampling.com


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## TomaeusD (Dec 31, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> FLUTE Ensemble
> 
> 
> The online library for premium sound samples
> ...


Whaaat, I've never seen these! Awesome! (Sorry to detract from Pacific, carry on.)


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## doctoremmet (Dec 31, 2022)

TomaeusD said:


> Whaaat, I've never seen these! Awesome! (Sorry to detract from Pacific, carry on.)


There are bassoons too IIRC.


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## jazzman7 (Dec 31, 2022)

handz said:


> oof, I am sorry but as soon as string melody starts to play the transitions kill me, they are jumping all over the place and are super distracting and unnatural to me. Like someone is messing with the pitch bend wheel...


I just didn't hear it that way. There are one or two transitions that slide a bit much, but the rest sounded like a more restrained version of Vista. Of course, opinions differ on Vista as well!


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## Argy Ottas (Dec 31, 2022)

While testing my new template, I wrote this rough tune to share with the family on New Year's Eve!
Pacific for the main strings, and Berlin Strings for some Divisi lines.
Happy 2023, everyone!

View attachment 2022-2023 Argy Ottas.mp3

Argy

EDIT: I just realized that I share this with you before I share it with my family, thus you're basically like family to me as well? lol


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## MarcMahler89 (Dec 31, 2022)

So i just aquired pacific yesterday and am still in the process of discovering the library, but first and foremost i always like to see how the bread n butter stuff works in context 

First observations:
-Pacific does what i actually wanted Vista to do, but better (the amount of expression with set rebow timings in Vista limited my writing way too much, it just never did what i wanted it to do)
-Gorgeous room tone. Like it a lot
-Less flexible than CSS in terms of legato transitions, but as sometimes neither of CSS`s transitions fitted in, ill probably work my way around this with automation

Aside from that, i already think that the included Harp is my new favourite by quite a margin. I never used harps that much, but this one showed me why. Oh, and the Trills are gorgeous as well! Already looking forward to use these in more dissonant stuff 

A small piece i began in the process of using the library - will obviously not end where it ends, already got an idea im currently working on. Strings 100% pacific of course with some EQ on top / cinematic rooms for reverb.



Happy new years eve!


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## AlexSonicsMusic (Dec 31, 2022)

Argy Ottas said:


> While testing my new template, I wrote this rough tune to share with the family on New Year's Eve!
> Pacific for the main strings, and Berlin Strings for some Divisi lines.
> Happy 2023, everyone!
> 
> ...


Gorgeous Thanks, bro and a happy new year to you


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## AlexSonicsMusic (Dec 31, 2022)

MarcMahler89 said:


> So i just aquired pacific yesterday and am still in the process of discovering the library, but first and foremost i always like to see how the bread n butter stuff works in context
> 
> First observations:
> -Pacific does what i actually wanted Vista to do, but better (the amount of expression with set rebow timings in Vista limited my writing way too much, it just never did what i wanted it to do)
> ...



Beautiful! I agree, the harp is a star we did not hope for, but you made the library shine!


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## AlexSonicsMusic (Dec 31, 2022)

Vik said:


> I really like the sound of these whispering sustains, especially with some processing. Btw, I didn't think about tempo variations – but you obviously know the piece very well, so I have nothing more to add. Thanks again!




I updated the video to include the normal Legato articulation and a more intense whisper sustain version. You were right, I was so enamoured of the whisper sustains that I ended up with an extremely restrained version
Here's the midi:


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## I like music (Dec 31, 2022)

AlexSonicsMusic said:


> I updated the video to include the normal Legato articulation and a more intense whisper sustain version. You were right, I was so enamoured of the whisper sustains that I ended up with an extremely restrained version
> Here's the midi:



Utterly envious of your CC drawing skills. Mine look like they were drawn while trying to survive an earthquake.

This sounds great! Also a reminder to self to dig that CSB horn out again.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 31, 2022)

I like music said:


> Utterly envious of your CC drawing skills. Mine look like they were drawn while trying to survive an earthquake.
> 
> This sounds great! Also a reminder to self to dig that CSB horn out again.


Seems like he's using a curve tool to draw those. A bezier curve i think. You probably have a similar tool in your DAW.


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## Casiquire (Dec 31, 2022)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Seems like he's using a curve tool to draw those. A bezier curve i think. You probably have a similar tool in your DAW.


I kind of like doing my own flawed curves, I (probably falsely) feel like it gives it more humanity


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 31, 2022)

One thing I've noticed from AK Dern's videos is she uses broad curves (using Cubase's bezier tool) across multiple notes. Ben Botkin on the other hand seems to favor per note crafting of curves. I imagine it also is dependent on the library you are working with. Wonder how Pacific reacts to or favors either approach?


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## MarcMahler89 (Dec 31, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I kind of like doing my own flawed curves, I (probably falsely) feel like it gives it more humanity


Haha i considered that i was the only one


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## Casiquire (Dec 31, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> One thing I've noticed from AK Dern's videos is she uses broad curves (using Cubase's bezier tool) across multiple notes. Ben Botkin on the other hand seems to favor per note crafting of curves. I imagine it also is dependent on the library you are working with. Wonder how Pacific reacts to or favors either approach?


Anne Kathrin Dern also layers a lot which I would imagine favors broader curves versus surgical edits which make more sense in just one library


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 31, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Anne Kathrin Dern also layers a lot which I would imagine favors broader curves versus surgical edits which make more sense in just one library


I would've guessed that libraries that have performance arcs built into the sustains would also dictate broader dynamic curves since the movement was already recorded for each note.


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## soulofsound (Dec 31, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I kind of like doing my own flawed curves, I (probably falsely) feel like it gives it more humanity


Me too. For brass and winds libraries I even put spikes in the CC1 data sometimes to fake resonance.


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## I like music (Jan 1, 2023)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Seems like he's using a curve tool to draw those. A bezier curve i think. You probably have a similar tool in your DAW.


Will give it a try. Since I use the Infiinite Series a lot, I end up doing lots of little bumps and things. Either way, I'll try bezier curves (I have Cubase) and see how that goes. 

I don't like Cubase's CC drawing functionality. I believe there's a feature in Logic where you can simply click from one point to another, and it draws a between them, with the ability to drag a node up and down and that line will adjust between the two points. I wish Cubase would bloody do this.

Anyways, I digress.

Keep the demos coming people. I'm still between "I'm going to buy this in the next five minutes" and "don't need it"


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## Peter Satera (Jan 1, 2023)

I've been loving the demos so far, it's very romantic sound and will pick it up soon.

One thing I noticed yesterday on the site, that these 16 violins which are quite 'Williams' sounding are only to be paired with a 2 horn section. I'm kinda left scratching my head. It's a smaller brass section than CSB. With the power of these string Marcato, I'm surprised it's not an a4.


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## Rick S (Jan 1, 2023)

Peter Satera said:


> I've been loving the demos so far, it's very romantic sound and will pick it up soon.
> 
> One thing I noticed yesterday on the site, that these 16 violins which are quite 'Williams' sounding are part if Pacific which was initially intended to be just a string section, but in current plans it's to be paired with only a 2 horn section. I'm kinda left scratching my head. It's a smaller brass section than CSB. With the power of these string Marcato, I'm surprised it's not an a4.


I might be wrong here but I believe it is to avoid that "chorused" sound you usually get when playing chords with larger ensembles. It wouldn't hurt to have solo instruments too but I guess this is the tradeoff.
Again, everything I just said might be wrong.


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## Sovereign (Jan 1, 2023)

Here's a quick test turning the whisper sustains for vlns, violas and cellos into actual legato patches. I used the first four layers of what little sample material there is to work with.


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## jbuhler (Jan 1, 2023)

Sovereign said:


> Here's a quick test turning the whisper sustains for vlns, violas and cellos into actual legato patches. I used the first four layers of what little sample material there is to work with.


It would be great if you could make a video showing how you did this.


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## Larbguy (Jan 1, 2023)

Peter Satera said:


> I've been loving the demos so far, it's very romantic sound and will pick it up soon.
> 
> One thing I noticed yesterday on the site, that these 16 violins which are quite 'Williams' sounding are only to be paired with a 2 horn section. I'm kinda left scratching my head. It's a smaller brass section than CSB. With the power of these string Marcato, I'm surprised it's not an a4.


im curious about this too. i actually found 2 demos on his soundcloud that arent included in the pacific playlist on the website that include the brass. wondering why they aren't in the official playlist because i think they sound great. from about a year ago. they're very brief and are more a teaser than a full demo


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## Wunderhorn (Jan 1, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> It would be great if you could make a video showing how you did this.


Even better if Performance Samples would include such 'legato' whisper patches in an update.

One could only dream of having the Whisper patch also with real portamento/glissando for some Mahleresque spine chilling beauty.


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## I like music (Jan 1, 2023)

Sovereign said:


> Here's a quick test turning the whisper sustains for vlns, violas and cellos into actual legato patches. I used the first four layers of what little sample material there is to work with.


Sorcerer...

...please share your secrets!


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## Nicola74 (Jan 1, 2023)

RMH said:


> Oh! The song is so good! I also bought the Pacific String and finished installing it. I'm curious about the shape of the modulation green, so can I request a midi file?


Thanks, I am glad that you like the music.
Unfortunately I am having problems with my PC in these days and I don't have access to my projects :-(
As soon as I will be able I will send you the midi file.


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## Rick S (Jan 1, 2023)

Sovereign said:


> Here's a quick test turning the whisper sustains for vlns, violas and cellos into actual legato patches. I used the first four layers of what little sample material there is to work with.


So uh,...you planning on sharing those or do you enjoy torturing people?
...I haven't even bought Pacific yet.


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## ism (Jan 1, 2023)

Sovereign said:


> Here's a quick test turning the whisper sustains for vlns, violas and cellos into actual legato patches. I used the first four layers of what little sample material there is to work with.


This is the single most compelling thing I've heard with Pacific. Very cool!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 1, 2023)

Can someone who owns PS please check something? In the freebie Violin sustains sordino patch, E4 has an artefact when played with the MOD wheel at 50% or less. It sounds like one of the players moving their chair or something. I'm assuming (hoping!) these were cleaned up.


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## Soundbed (Jan 1, 2023)

Sovereign said:


> Here's a quick test turning the whisper sustains for vlns, violas and cellos into actual legato patches. I used the first four layers of what little sample material there is to work with.


It works, afaict!


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## MarcMahler89 (Jan 1, 2023)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Can someone who owns PS please check something? In the freebie Violin sustains sordino patch, E4 has an artefact when played with the MOD wheel at 50% or less. It sounds like one of the players moving their chair or something. I'm assuming (hoping!) these were cleaned up.


Quickly checked and found nothing resembling a chair noise


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 1, 2023)

MarcMahler89 said:


> Quickly checked and found nothing resembling a chair noise


Thanks! Is there any noise at all? I assume it got fixed before release.


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## ScarletJerry (Jan 1, 2023)

I’ve heard so many demos of the whisper sustains, but can someone say exactly what they are? How are they made? Is it using a mute or a special playing technique?

Scarlet Jerry


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## Soundbed (Jan 1, 2023)

ScarletJerry said:


> I’ve heard so many demos of the whisper sustains, but can someone say exactly what they are? How are they made? Is it using a mute or a special playing technique?
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


They are played only by the members of the orchestra deemed "string whisperers."


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## I like music (Jan 1, 2023)

Soundbed said:


> It works, afaict!


Do you happen to know how Sovereign did this?!


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## MarcMahler89 (Jan 1, 2023)

I like music said:


> Do you happen to know how Sovereign did this?!


Just google "Kontakt legato script" - the first video result is already a great starting tutorial


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jan 1, 2023)

ScarletJerry said:


> I’ve heard so many demos of the whisper sustains, but can someone say exactly what they are? How are they made? Is it using a mute or a special playing technique?
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


I believe they are just normal strings played at low velocities. Usually, in a library, you get one p + mp + mf + f velocity layers(that's if you're lucky). But this one has 5 velocity layer for soft velocity(p). Which should allow for more expressive when play really soft music.
You might want to read on the PS to see if there's more to those whisper sustains. there might be other technique involve like flautando etc...


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## NoamL (Jan 1, 2023)

Rick S said:


> I might be wrong here but I believe it is to avoid that "chorused" sound you usually get when playing chords with larger ensembles. It wouldn't hurt to have solo instruments too but I guess this is the tradeoff.
> Again, everything I just said might be wrong.


You're right on. It's very common to split up the 6horns as 2 on each note so they can do triads. We have plenty of good 4 horn (CSB) and 6 horn (CineSamples) patches, what is sorely lacking is 2horn. I use the Spitfire and CineBrass ones but they're not great for much more than chordal playing. Strezov reportedly has a good 2hn as well. 



Sovereign said:


> Here's a quick test turning the whisper sustains for vlns, violas and cellos into actual legato patches. I used the first four layers of what little sample material there is to work with.


These sound terrific.

It would be nice if JB endorsed your work or @Cheezus 's and released something like this as an add on. Since it's a whole nother nki it could live next to the non-legato patches without changing their programming.


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## I like music (Jan 1, 2023)

MarcMahler89 said:


> Just google "Kontakt legato script" - the first video result is already a great starting tutorial


Thanks! Will take a look, though I have a feeling I'll blow my computer up.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Jan 1, 2023)

Here's a short mockup of the end of "Across the Stars", featuring the Harp from Pacific Strings: 



I also have a longer version of this on my channel that is using CineHarps, but I won't post it here because I don't want to offend the "No comparisons in demo threads!"-purists


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 1, 2023)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Here's a short mockup of the end of "Across the Stars", featuring the Harp from Pacific Strings:
> 
> 
> 
> I also have a longer version of this on my channel that is using CineHarps, but I won't post it here because I don't want to offend the "No comparisons in demo threads!"-purists



Hmmm...those shorts that come in at 0:27 don't sound quite right to me (they have that dreaded "sucking" sound). Are they are from PS?


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## Laurin Lenschow (Jan 1, 2023)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Hmmm...those shorts that come in at 0:27 don't sound quite right to me (they have that dreaded "sucking" sound). Are they are from PS?


On short notes the Harp seems to have a recording of the player muting the string when the note ends, I assume that's what you mean. I also find this quite annoying - here's an exposed example: 
View attachment Pacific Harp Shorts.mp3


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## Sovereign (Jan 1, 2023)

NoamL said:


> These sound terrific.
> 
> It would be nice if JB endorsed your work or @Cheezus 's and released something like this as an add on. Since it's a whole nother nki it could live next to the non-legato patches without changing their programming.


I'll finish these up first before I'll bother asking JB if it's okay to distribute any of these, since the eula forbids it I think. While I have things in a playable state there's still enough left to fix, tweak and clean up. I'll do my own legato version of the sordinos too after these. 
For those who asked, I could do a write-up but it's a lot of steps and if you've never done any serious editing in the Kontakt backend this might not be for you.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jan 1, 2023)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Here's a short mockup of the end of "Across the Stars", featuring the Harp from Pacific Strings:
> 
> 
> 
> I also have a longer version of this on my channel that is using CineHarps, but I won't post it here because I don't want to offend the "No comparisons in demo threads!"-purists



I personnaly would tighten the attack of the piz a little. I understand there a control for that.


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## Cheezus (Jan 1, 2023)

Sovereign said:


> I'll finish these up first before I'll bother asking JB if it's okay to distribute any of these, since the eula forbids it I think. While I have things in a playable state there's still enough left to fix, tweak and clean up. I'll do my own legato version of the sordinos too after these.
> For those who asked, I could do a write-up but it's a lot of steps and if you've never done any serious editing in the Kontakt backend this might not be for you.


Just a heads up, I did ask him directly and he responded that it’s against EULA.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 1, 2023)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> On short notes the Harp seems to have a recording of the player muting the string when the note ends, I assume that's what you mean. I also find this quite annoying - here's an exposed example:
> View attachment Pacific Harp Shorts.mp3


No, I mean the strings in that section. The harp is bad enough, I’m not really impressed with what I’ve heard in any of the demos.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Jan 1, 2023)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> No, I mean the strings in that section. The harp is bad enough, I’m not really impressed with what I’ve heard in any of the demos.


Ah, nevermind then 
The strings are not Pacific (...yet - I'll probably implement them at some point) but Hollywood Strings. And yes, the notes you mentioned are certainly the weakest part of this excerpt - I used a legato patch and I'll probably have to do some more tweaking, but I think most libraries would struggle with this kind of line because you would need RR legato or prerecorded phrases to pull it off in a really convincing fashion.


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## ScarletJerry (Jan 1, 2023)

NoamL said:


> You're right on. It's very common to split up the 6horns as 2 on each note so they can do triads. We have plenty of good 4 horn (CSB) and 6 horn (CineSamples) patches, what is sorely lacking is 2horn. I use the Spitfire and CineBrass ones but they're not great for much more than chordal playing. Strezov reportedly has a good 2hn as well.
> 
> 
> These sound terrific.
> ...


8Dio Century brass has a two horn patch.


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## Vik (Jan 1, 2023)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I believe they are just normal strings played at low velocities. Usually, in a library, you get one p + mp + mf + f velocity layers(that's if you're lucky). But this one has 5 velocity layer for soft velocity(p).


Sorry if this sounds like nitpicking, Obi-Wan – it's not meant that way: 
The first good string library I worked with was set to trigger various dynamic layers with velocity, and not CC layers. I got used to play without too much variations between the velocities for each note, but today I only use CC1 for dynamic change (for sustains and legatos). 

Are the dynamic layers in the whispering sustains by default controlled by velocity – or by CCs? I know that some people write velocity layers when they mean dynamic layers, which is why I ask. The way I understand this, most dynamic layers aren't controlled by velocity (inside the string library) and would therefore, IMO, be described more accurately as 'dynamic layers' IMHO.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 1, 2023)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Ah, nevermind then
> The strings are not Pacific (...yet - I'll probably implement them at some point) but Hollywood Strings. And yes, the notes you mentioned are certainly the weakest part of this excerpt - I used a legato patch and I'll probably have to do some more tweaking, but I think most libraries would struggle with this kind of line because you would need RR legato or prerecorded phrases to pull it off in a really convincing fashion.


Cool! And thanks for taking the time to post these demos.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jan 1, 2023)

Vik said:


> Sorry if this sounds like nitpicking, Obi-Wan – it's not meant that way:
> The first good string library I worked with was set to trigger various dynamic layers with velocity, and not CC layers. I got used to play without too much variations between the velocities for each note, but today I only use CC1 for dynamic change (for sustains and legatos).
> 
> Are the dynamic layers in the whispering sustains by default controlled by velocity – or by CCs? I know that some people write velocity layers when they mean dynamic layers, which is why I ask. The way I understand this, most dynamic layers aren't controlled by velocity (inside the string library) and would therefore, IMO, be described more accurately as 'dynamic layers' IMHO.


Yes dynamic layers. I don't own it but I'm sure it's controlled via CCs.


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## ibanez1 (Jan 1, 2023)

Cheezus said:


> Just a heads up, I did ask him directly and he responded that it’s against EULA.


Perhaps a script written in another language that when run, automatically goes through the mapping steps and generates an nki? I always feel like these limitations are weird when you own a license to use the sounds and you are personally allowed to manipulate the kontakt instrument yourself but you can't distribute a modified instrument file (which won't run without owning the library) to other users. As an example, what does this imply for the creation of Adachi using 8dio's anthology / adagio samples? Different company with different eula? Maybe the key is that Adachi was a kontakt instrument built from scratch.


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## Soundbed (Jan 1, 2023)

MarcMahler89 said:


> Just google "Kontakt legato script" - the first video result is already a great starting tutorial


That result (for me) shows how to “fake” legato. 

I’d that what you did, @Sovereign ?

Or, did you repurpose (some of) the legato samples from the legato patch, and use them for the whisper sustains?


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## jbuhler (Jan 1, 2023)

Soundbed said:


> That result (for me) shows how to “fake” legato.


Same. In fact the whole first page for me is about scripts for simulated legato.

ETA: I tried one of the simulated legato scripts and the patch wouldn’t play when the script was loaded.


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## Soundbed (Jan 1, 2023)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Yes dynamic layers. I don't own it but I'm sure it's controlled via CCs.


And @Vik 

fwiw, the Marcato patches can be controlled by either cc or velocity. This is great because they can either act as shorts (staccato) or longer infinite-bow marcato longs.


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## Petter Rong (Jan 1, 2023)

Cheezus said:


> Just a heads up, I did ask him directly and he responded that it’s against EULA.


Then I would expect him to release a similar patch promptly or just allow that patch to be shared (without samples of course). Last option means he takes no risk and still accumulate sales through added value, without doing any work. Can't see what he's got to loose on this?


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## Getsumen (Jan 1, 2023)

I'm honestly down to recreate it, no matter how many steps it takes. It's a fantastic concept but I do understand it's probably not fair to ask of @Sovereign to create written instructions since that's probably a much more significant undertaking by them.

If you are down for it though... consider me interested


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## Cheezus (Jan 1, 2023)

You shouldn’t need to do any scripting. You just need to swap the sustains + release triggers in the legato patch (the easy part), and then adjust the legato transitions to match those sustains (the tedious part).


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 1, 2023)

Petter Rong said:


> Then I would expect him to release a similar patch promptly or just allow that patch to be shared (without samples of course). Last option means he takes no risk and still accumulate sales through added value, without doing any work. Can't see what he's got to loose on this?


Why would you expect such a thing? The man owes you nothing. Literally nothing of the sort.


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## Soundbed (Jan 1, 2023)

Cheezus said:


> You shouldn’t need to do any scripting. You just need to swap the sustains + release triggers in the legato patch (the easy part), and then adjust the legato transitions to match those sustains (the tedious part).


It I can learn it, I’ll make a video demonstrating. (It doesn’t have to be specifically about Pacific. The basic skills can be applied to other legato instruments.) I get the concepts, and I learned a bit from applying the pixelpoet trick to MSS, which Audiobro then responded to by going in and augmenting their engine in an update; giving more control over legato (and port and gliss) transition speed, volume and offset, plus allowing user mapping for all three. 


Baronvonheadless said:


> Why would you expect such a thing? The man owes you nothing. Literally nothing of the sort.


Agreed, I don’t expect Jasper to release patches like this. He’s probably happy to move on to Voyage and the other instrument groups in Pacific (my guess) after so much work on the strings. This sort of twiddling around is something I’d want to learn and apply to other unlocked products. 

(Apologies to those who want this to remain a clean “user demo only” thread. I’m responding to the conversation where it’s leading.)


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## jbuhler (Jan 1, 2023)

An speed/agility test for violin legato:

View attachment Pacific Speed Test Violin (verb).mp3


A basic back and forth test:

View attachment Pacific Noodle 2 (back and forth) 1.0.mp3


I find it handles the repeated seconds better than the repeated wider intervals near the end.

Spiccatos/marcatos in an action cue:

View attachment Pacific Octatonic Action (with reverb) 1.0.mp3


Cantabile Counterpoint:

View attachment SAS Noodle 8 Pacific 1.0.mp3


This one could use some further tweaking to control the portamento a bit better. But I think it shows the library is capable of an exceptionally sweet sound even when playing rather high in the dynamic range.


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## Soundbed (Jan 1, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> An speed/agility test for violin legato:
> 
> View attachment Pacific Speed Test Violin (verb).mp3
> 
> ...


I don’t know that it will ever sound “convincing” but it might be interesting to hear the first fast example at different places in the mod wheel. 0, 25% 50% 75% (it probably sounds less convincing near 100%).


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## jbuhler (Jan 1, 2023)

Soundbed said:


> I don’t know that it will ever sound “convincing” but it might be interesting to hear the first fast example at different places in the mod wheel. 0, 25% 50% 75% (it probably sounds less convincing near 100%).


I'll do it up tomorrow. The posted version moves between cc1 of 18 and 111.


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## zeng (Jan 1, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> An speed/agility test for violin legato:
> 
> View attachment Pacific Speed Test Violin (verb).mp3


I bought Pacific and couldn't play with it yet but this fast legato perfomance sounds very midi to me :/


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jan 1, 2023)

Are there any large strings section that can do runs anyway? Is that even doable without the use of other articulation layered on top of it? Maybe BSS can with the blure patch or something? Or is BS?


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## Sovereign (Jan 2, 2023)

Soundbed said:


> Or, did you repurpose (some of) the legato samples from the legato patch, and use them for the whisper sustains?


It's done by repurposing assets from both patches and combining those into one.


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## Henning (Jan 2, 2023)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Are there any large strings section that can do runs anyway? Is that even doable without the use of other articulation layered on top of it? Maybe BSS can with the blure patch or something? Or is BS?


OT Orchestral String Runs is still the only lib where I can create fast runs that are not just octaves and that don't sound fake to me. I use these 3 or 4 note patterns that are provided and which give you the option to make really cool fast stuff. I still wonder why noone actually jumped on that concept after over 10 years and made a better version of it.


----------



## handz (Jan 2, 2023)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Are there any large strings section that can do runs anyway? Is that even doable without the use of other articulation layered on top of it? Maybe BSS can with the blure patch or something? Or is BS?


I think that the last update of CSS made this quite possible


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## Corda1983 (Jan 2, 2023)

Petter Rong said:


> Then I would expect him to release a similar patch promptly or just allow that patch to be shared (without samples of course). Last option means he takes no risk and still accumulate sales through added value, without doing any work. Can't see what he's got to loose on this?


It’s just a murky area that’s not worth getting into. Allowing others to use your samples to create something that is then released publicly, even if for free, can muddy waters, create quality control issues and essentially starts putting your hard work into the realm of open source.

I’m sure there’s a lot of talented people that could do a lot of good things with the material, but I understand why from a business perspective it’s best to just keep it a boundary.


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## Soundbed (Jan 2, 2023)

Henning said:


> OT Orchestral String Runs is still the only lib where I can create fast runs that are not just octaves and that don't sound fake to me. I use these 3 or 4 note patterns that are provided and which give you the option to make really cool fast stuff. I still wonder why noone actually jumped on that concept after over 10 years and made a better version of it.


Sounds like MSS used a similar idea. Sonokinetic takes it “a step” further though  and lets you play any notes and makes a run out of them, I think.


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## Henu (Jan 2, 2023)

Henning said:


> OT Orchestral String Runs is still the only lib where I can create fast runs that are not just octaves and that don't sound fake to me.


It's a wondeful library. The playable runs- patch is criminally underrated! It can pull off very convincing stuff, I use it all the time myself.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Jan 2, 2023)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I personnaly would tighten the attack of the piz a little. I understand there a control for that.


Done - here's the new version, using a predelay of 80 ms:
View attachment Across the Stars (Pacific Harp) v2.mp3


I also took in @Jeremy Spencer's feedback and used a different legato patch for the string part starting at 0:27. It's not exactly perfect, but I think it's better than the previous version


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## jbuhler (Jan 2, 2023)

zeng said:


> I bought Pacific and couldn't play with it yet but this fast legato perfomance sounds very midi to me :/


Yes, the idea for a speed text, in my mind, is to push it to the point point that it starts to break down. It being a large ensemble you’d be hard pressed to get a section to play so precisely so there’s that too. The passage has runs, leaps, and various figures so it tests a lot of items. I would say that pacific sounds better on this than my other big string sections ensembles but not as good as some of my smaller sections.


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## Henning (Jan 2, 2023)

Soundbed said:


> Sounds like MSS used a similar idea. Sonokinetic takes it “a step” further though  and lets you play any notes and makes a run out of them, I think.


I know these. Nowhere near what I can get with OSR, mate. As I say, that concept was brilliant. Someone basically has to copy this and put RR and a softer dynamic in there. But I don't want to derail this thread.


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## jbuhler (Jan 2, 2023)

Soundbed said:


> I don’t know that it will ever sound “convincing” but it might be interesting to hear the first fast example at different places in the mod wheel. 0, 25% 50% 75% (it probably sounds less convincing near 100%).


Here they are. I've normalized the volumes by ear.

CC1 = 0

View attachment Pacific Speed Test 0 (1).mp3


CC1 = 25

View attachment Pacific Speed Test 25 (1).mp3


CC1 = 50

View attachment Pacific Speed Test 50 (1).mp3


CC1 = 75

View attachment Pacific Speed Test 75 (1).mp3


CC1 = 100

View attachment Pacific Speed Test 100 (1).mp3


CC1 = 127

View attachment Pacific Speed Test 127 (1).mp3


Then CC = 50 at 100 bpm (I forgot to adjust the volume on output on this one, so it's a bit quieter than the others).

View attachment Pacific Speed Test 50 100bpm.mp3


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## Living Fossil (Jan 2, 2023)

zeng said:


> I bought Pacific and couldn't play with it yet but this fast legato perfomance sounds very midi to me :/


One reason why these legatos sound so "fake" is due to the intonation that simply hasn't anything to do with the non-perfect intonation that would occur in such a constellation in reality.

That's why I'm always so fixated on having the opportunity to detune the sound.
(which e.g. CSS, BBC SO and – as it seems – Pacific don't offer)

With MSS it's possible to assign detune to a controller and then bring some detuning in fast passages (or passages with exposed octaves in a non-slow tempo).

One way to make runs even better is to additionally perform the run (with modified note length) with a trill articulation (that basically follows the line of the run) and mix it in at a low level (and if possible: detuned a bit).

Those who are Kontakt experts and already own Pacific (I'm still on my Christmas vacation for some days): Is there a possibility to add Pitch Bend control in order to change the intonation? Or is that part of the instrument non editable (as CSS)?


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jan 2, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> Here they are. I've normalized the volumes by ear.
> 
> CC1 = 0
> 
> ...


It would be interesting to hear those layered with trills to see if it blurs things enough to make it remotely believable? Also, when the solo violin comes out it might help with moderately fast passages if layered on top i think.


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## NoamL (Jan 2, 2023)

handz said:


> I think that the last update of CSS made this quite possible


IMO there is no point assigning fast runs to any other library!

Here are some runs with CSS+CSSS out of the box. Then the same excerpt but lower dynamics. Then Pacific attempting it.


View attachment runs compar.mp3


These experiments are fun but the conclusion is foregone. CSS is now very optimized to this task thanks to Alex W's hard work. Pacific was never designed to tackle it. Every composer who writes this sort of thing, should have CSS on their 'staff' of VIs.

Pacific may not do this task better than any other 60-player library, but there are other reasons why I'd rather use it than any of the other libraries in the symphonic class. It has way more life than most of its competitors, realistic transitions, a good dynamic range, great shorts, and a good recording setup.


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## jbuhler (Jan 2, 2023)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> It would be interesting to hear those layered with trills to see if it blurs things enough to make it remotely believable? Also, when the solo violin comes out it might help with moderately fast passages if layered on top i think.


Yes, I would say the point here is not credibility of performance for the passage as a whole, because the passage presents a lot of obstacles. And I don't have a library that can effectively negotiate everything at this speed. (I don't have CSS and it would be my candidate for being able to execute the whole passage.) In any case, the goal of the exercise for me is to expose which obstacles the library negotiates and which it stumbles on. Pacific does perform better on this test than most of my other large strings, but it does stumble.

This passage is also completely exposed. If you threw some context around it, many of the issues readily apparent in the solo passage would pass unnoticed. And if you used a lower dynamic layer at the volume the library outputs, the credibility also goes up quite a lot. 

I find the trills in this library don't really lend themselves to this use. In any case I find them a pain to program.

Here's 110 bpm with trills. There's improvement in some bits, deprecation in other bits. Trills were not programmed for bits where they just made a hash of things (mostly the arp based figures).

View attachment Pacific Speed Test trill supplement 110bpm 1.1.mp3


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 2, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, I would say the point here is not credibility of performance for the passage as a whole, because the passage presents a lot of obstacles. And I don't have a library that can effectively negotiate everything at this speed. (I don't have CSS and it would be my candidate for being able to execute the whole passage.) In any case, the goal of the exercise for me is to expose which obstacles the library negotiates and which it stumbles on. Pacific does perform better on this test than most of my other large strings, but it does stumble.
> 
> This passage is also completely exposed. If you threw some context around it, many of the issues readily apparent in the solo passage would pass unnoticed. And if you used a lower dynamic layer at the volume the library outputs, the credibility also goes up quite a lot.
> 
> ...


Have you tried it with Spitfire Symphonic Strings performance legato (which I believe has a runs patch within it based on playing speed)?


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## jbuhler (Jan 2, 2023)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Have you tried it with Spitfire Symphonic Strings performance legato (which I believe has a runs patch within it based on playing speed)?


Thanks for the suggestion! I don't generally use the performance legato patch but use articulation sets to call the different variety of legatos, including the runs. The performance legato does shine on this kind of thing, and it allows you to execute accents and simulated bowing effects much easier than is possible with Pacific. It's still not perfect, and sounds a bit to my ear like a shorts overlay on the runs legato than say taking 4 or 6 notes per bow divided by bows. It also takes more programming than Pacific. I may need to study the performance legato parameters more carefully to see if I can get more the effect I'm aiming at. 

SSS Performance Legato, 120 bpm for comparison.

View attachment SSS Speed Test Performance legato 1.1.mp3


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jan 2, 2023)

NoamL said:


> IMO there is no point assigning fast runs to any other library!
> 
> Here are some runs with CSS+CSSS out of the box. Then the same excerpt but lower dynamics. Then Pacific attempting it.
> 
> ...


I knew CSS had improved runs and heard promising results but that 1st run was very very impressive. I'd probably be fooled by that within a full arrangement. Still don't know if it would be possible to pull this off with a symphonic section but who cares about that anyway.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jan 2, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> Thanks for the suggestion! I don't generally use the performance legato patch but use articulation sets to call the different variety of legatos, including the runs. The performance legato does shine on this kind of thing, and it allows you to execute accents and simulated bowing effects much easier than is possible with Pacific. It's still not perfect, and sounds a bit to my ear like a shorts overlay on the runs legato than say taking 4 or 6 notes per bow divided by bows. It also takes more programming than Pacific. I may need to study the performance legato parameters more carefully to see if I can get more the effect I'm aiming at.
> 
> SSS Performance Legato, 120 bpm for comparison.
> 
> View attachment SSS Speed Test Performance legato 1.1.mp3


It fails at times but for up and down runs it worked pretty well.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 2, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> Thanks for the suggestion! I don't generally use the performance legato patch but use articulation sets to call the different variety of legatos, including the runs. The performance legato does shine on this kind of thing, and it allows you to execute accents and simulated bowing effects much easier than is possible with Pacific. It's still not perfect, and sounds a bit to my ear like a shorts overlay on the runs legato than say taking 4 or 6 notes per bow divided by bows. It also takes more programming than Pacific. I may need to study the performance legato parameters more carefully to see if I can get more the effect I'm aiming at.
> 
> SSS Performance Legato, 120 bpm for comparison.
> 
> View attachment SSS Speed Test Performance legato 1.1.mp3


Yeah it's a fairly deep patch - velocity plays a big part https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007143734-How-does-Performance-Legato-work-

You can really hear the sound of AIR even in this example vs. the Pacific one.


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## Vik (Jan 2, 2023)

I wonder how Pacific would handle this micro-test:


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jan 2, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> Thanks for the suggestion! I don't generally use the performance legato patch but use articulation sets to call the different variety of legatos, including the runs. The performance legato does shine on this kind of thing, and it allows you to execute accents and simulated bowing effects much easier than is possible with Pacific. It's still not perfect, and sounds a bit to my ear like a shorts overlay on the runs legato than say taking 4 or 6 notes per bow divided by bows. It also takes more programming than Pacific. I may need to study the performance legato parameters more carefully to see if I can get more the effect I'm aiming at.
> 
> SSS Performance Legato, 120 bpm for comparison.
> 
> View attachment SSS Speed Test Performance legato 1.1.mp3


In the single patch folder, some of the patches actually work better than the Perf. Legato patch.

I tried fast string writing with a patch, think it was just the Fingered Legato or whatever it‘s called, and that worked better than when Perf. Legato played the same line


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## jbuhler (Jan 2, 2023)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Yeah it's a fairly deep patch - velocity plays a big part https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007143734-How-does-Performance-Legato-work-
> 
> You can really hear the sound of AIR even in this example vs. the Pacific one.


Agreed, and the actual runs (rather than turns, measured trills and arps) sound more connected, like they are taken in a bow, than is the case for Pacific. 

The velocity seems to control the shorts overlay, and there is something called an accented legato for runs and fast legato, which is maybe the repurposed bow change legato. In any case, it's all more complicated, and I'm not sure what the proper setting is to get notes in fours or sixes per bow.



Henrik B. Jensen said:


> In the single patch folder, some of the patches actually work better than the Perf. Legato patch.


Yes, I find this is often the case too, which is why I usually use articulation sets and call the specific legatos I want that way. (The portamento in particular is more reliably triggered by articulation sets than the low velocity and playing speed in the performance legato and legato performance patches.) For this passage, the performance legato patch seems a decent match. I might drag out my usual SSS set up and try it again. I recall trying it in the past and the library really struggled.


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## ka00 (Jan 2, 2023)

Henning said:


> OT Orchestral String Runs is still the only lib where I can create fast runs that are not just octaves and that don't sound fake to me.


While they aren't discrete section patches, OT's Ark 5 has some playable runs patches that are also really good.

On the subject of roll-your-own whisper or sordino legato patches, if anyone has some video recommendations to get up to speed on how to edit kontakt instruments in the manner required, that would be greatly appreciated. Might need its own thread if one doesn’t exist.


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## ScarletJerry (Jan 2, 2023)

Well, if you want the ultimate string runs realism, there's this.

Scarlet Jerry


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## jazzman7 (Jan 2, 2023)

ScarletJerry said:


> Well, if you want the ultimate string runs realism, there's this.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


That's quite good!


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## Henning (Jan 2, 2023)

ScarletJerry said:


> Well, if you want the ultimate string runs realism, there's this.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


It's basically standard octave runs. I meant stuff like in this track.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 2, 2023)

Henning said:


> It's basically standard octave runs. I meant stuff like in this track.



CSS 1.7.1 marcato mode. For sure.


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## Henning (Jan 2, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> CSS 1.7.1 marcato mode. For sure.


Nope. OSR. I know because it's my track.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 2, 2023)

Henning said:


> Nope. OSR. I know because it's my track.


Ah I thought you were the one asking if a library could do fast, believable runs. I guess that was someone else! I wasn’t saying this track used it but I could see CSS with the new update tackling lines like this. Is what I meant.

This is your track? Nice!

I don’t have OT OSR but I do have CSS and MSS and even though MSS makes it easier I prefer the way the new css lets u play it in.

Anyways. Back on topic. Super fast runs is not what I think Pacific was aiming for. What it excels at, from my noodling so far, is romantic era music. 

And boy does it.


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## Henning (Jan 2, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Ah I thought you were the one asking if a library could do fast, believable runs. I guess that was someone else! I wasn’t saying this track used it but I could see CSS with the new update tackling lines like this. Is what I meant.
> 
> This is your track? Nice!
> 
> ...


Absolutely. I'm sure it will get a lot of use with me as well. It's just so playable and sounds so lovely. But I repeat myself...


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## Jackdnp121 (Jan 2, 2023)

Starting 2023 with a short piece I wrote with Pacific Strings By Performance sample ... Enjoy n All the best ~


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## jbuhler (Jan 2, 2023)

One of the romantic themes from _Now, Voyager_ by Max Steiner, transcribed from the soundtrack. The tempo map comes from the performance on the soundtrack.






View attachment Now Voayger Love Scene 1 (Pacifici) 1.1.mp3


The orchestra is too big for the classic studio style, especially for music that is destined to play under dialogue, but I like the sweetness of Pacific on the material and the portamentos suit the style.

No processing aside from reverb.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jan 2, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> One of the romantic themes from _Now, Voyager_ by Max Steiner, transcribed from the soundtrack. The tempo map comes from the performance on the soundtrack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds good! Which mic settings did you use? 

For implementation under dialogue I would think using just the Ab mics might help. Just a thought.


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## jbuhler (Jan 2, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Sounds good! Which mic settings did you use?
> 
> For implementation under dialogue I would think using just the Ab mics might help. Just a thought.


This is just Pacific's default mic setup, whatever it ships with. I haven't started looking at its mics yet. I would like to find a way to get a bit more width.

In terms of ensemble, I just meant that in the studio era they wouldn't have used a string section this large, especially not for music that was destined to sit behind dialogue. From the pictures of recording sessions I've seen, they likely wouldn't have been able to seat this many players in the studio unless the session was only strings and maybe not even then. It's not until they start recording in stereo for three or more track distribution in the 1950s, that a large string section like Pacific becomes at all common. 

So this music would have also been recorded in mono. Likely they were doing most of the mixing live while recording, since they would have been recording to optical (to facilitate editing), and as far as I have been able to determine multitrack recording wasn't yet common, though the technique was introduced already for _100 Men and a Girl_ (1937) to facilitate comping takes, or maybe just punching in, for Durbin's performances but also to allow isolation of her voice for some of the spatial effects they work narratively in the film. 

I'd love to know more about how they were mixing the music to the sound track, because the high end is more present than the low end and midrange, which makes sense if you think about how sound masking works on a mono track. And it's not simply orchestration and/or performance. On the _Now, Voyager_ soundtrack, the cello countermelody sounds like the volume was turned down on the dial (from what I've seen of studio gear, dials were much more common than faders), whereas the violins sound more or less normal, only slightly attenuated, and then only when the dialogue enters. Whether they did that with multitrack recording or EQ (I believe they were working with a 3 band EQ at the time), I don't know.


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## Saxer (Jan 3, 2023)

The Marcatos (and even the spiccatos when playing fast enough) of Pacific are not bad as run patches!


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## axb312 (Jan 3, 2023)

Saxer said:


> The Marcatos (and even the spiccatos when playing fast enough) of Pacific are not bad as run patches!


Post an example please.


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## Steve Hicks (Jan 3, 2023)

In context Leia's theme. Did it quickly so ignore, please, any slightly wonky rhythms. Intentionally dry and close to mimic the original. 

All strings except the semis in the vla/vc in the big tune (which are almost inaudible, and CSS btw) are Pacific. Solo violin is PS Freebie (except the last note which is too high) 

View attachment Leia 23.mp3


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## handz (Jan 3, 2023)

NoamL said:


> IMO there is no point assigning fast runs to any other library!
> 
> Here are some runs with CSS+CSSS out of the box. Then the same excerpt but lower dynamics. Then Pacific attempting it.
> 
> ...


Flawless Victory. Fatality. 
So, at least we can say for sure Pacific isn't the one lib to rule them all.


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## Hannes (Jan 3, 2023)

Steve Hicks said:


> In context Leia's theme. Did it quickly so ignore, please, any slightly wonky rhythms. Intentionally dry and close to mimic the original.
> 
> All strings except the semis in the vla/vc in the big tune (which are almost inaudible, and CSS btw) are Pacific. Solo violin is PS Freebie (except the last note which is too high)
> 
> View attachment Leia 23.mp3


Very nice work! It actually has a nice natural feeling because of the slightly wonky rhythms  
Also the dynamic spectrum feels much broader with Pacific than in other libraries

May I ask what other libraries you used? The Horn at the beginning sounds quite convincing!

I think it needs a tad of reverb though to smoothen the legato transitions - but of course you're right, if you add too much it looses the feeling of the original recording.


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## Lord Daknight (Jan 3, 2023)

handz said:


> Flawless Victory. Fatality.
> So, at least we can say for sure Pacific isn't the one lib to rule them all.


But as for I̶n̶f̶i̶
I mean Voyage...


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## Steve Hicks (Jan 3, 2023)

Hannes said:


> Very nice work! It actually has a nice natural feeling because of the slightly wonky rhythms
> Also the dynamic spectrum feels much broader with Pacific than in other libraries
> 
> May I ask what other libraries you used? The Horn at the beginning sounds quite convincing!
> ...


Thanks!

You're right ofc - a little Bricasti would gel things together but I was really trying for the original sound and Pacific is closest I've got

Solo Horn (s) is/are Cinesamples. Two hrns is cinesamples. Rest of the Brass cinematic studio 

Wind is Berlin Soloists: Fl, Ob, Cor, Embertone: Clar and Bassoon. Cinematic Studio: Bass Clar and non solo winds. Berlin picc. 

Perc: Cineperc

Harp: Berlin Sphere

Quite the mix!


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## Steve Hicks (Jan 3, 2023)

Hannes said:


> Very nice work! It actually has a nice natural feeling because of the slightly wonky rhythms
> Also the dynamic spectrum feels much broader with Pacific than in other libraries
> 
> May I ask what other libraries you used? The Horn at the beginning sounds quite convincing!
> ...


And yes I agree about the dynamics - the "big tune" is the closest I've got to /heard a whole bunch of strings really going for it. Usually that type of thing just feels "the same but louder"


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## Stevie (Jan 3, 2023)

Steve Hicks said:


> Thanks!
> 
> You're right ofc - a little Bricasti would gel things together but I was really trying for the original sound and Pacific is closest I've got
> 
> ...


This really sounds brilliant, amazing work, congrats!
And if everyone ever in this forum asks: does library X work well together with library Y, I will just post this link.

EDIT: sidenote, there's a legato volume knob for the Cinesamples Solo Horn, IIRC.


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## Vik (Jan 3, 2023)

Since there are so many Pacific threads already, I'm posting this here (mods: just tell me where to post this if you want it somewhere else!).
I've finally bought Pacific, but there's no manual yet, and a few things aren't totally self-explanatory. I'm mainly thinking og the high/low register settings.






Have any of you had any aha experiences with these settings yet?


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## Steve Hicks (Jan 3, 2023)

Another contextual thing.

Wrote this a few years ago but the strings never had the full throttle "heft" in the big tunes. I think Pacific does quite a good job.

All strings except Tina G on solo VC and the runs and trills are Pacific

View attachment Farewell and End Credits_Master.mp3


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## Lucas Bodenbender (Jan 3, 2023)

I finished the whole mockup. Strings are Pacific only (including the solo cello from pacific solo strings)



Oh, and I used that bonus room noise sample from the library to match the old recordings. So out of the box, they are not that noisy.


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## ScarletJerry (Jan 3, 2023)

Vik said:


> Since there are so many Pacific threads already, I'm posting this here (mods: just tell me where to post this if you want it somewhere else!).
> I've finally bought Pacific, but there's no manual yet, and a few things aren't totally self-explanatory. I'm mainly thinking og the high/low register settings.
> 
> 
> ...


Here is an explanation from similar controls in Vista from a Youtube review:

*https://youtu.be/Vr0C_k02o7g?t=812*


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## jbuhler (Jan 3, 2023)

Channeling my inner John Williams. This is all Pacific. 

View attachment Pacific Noodle 7.2a.mp3


Though I quite like the library, the Pacific legato has some quirks beyond the portamento that have to be worked around. Tempo changes can cause bumpiness and sometimes sustained notes feel off, like the loop points of the sustain don't quite fit together. It's not exactly a bump, but more like too much of the section decided to rebow at the same time and at a musically inopportune moment. They aren't the easiest things to fix, and a few of them slipped into this.

I'm not especially happy with my harp writing or maybe I need to use a harp with recorded glisses rather than trying to fake them. (This is the Pacific harp.)


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## Petter Rong (Jan 3, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Why would you expect such a thing? The man owes you nothing. Literally nothing of the sort.


I didn't say he owed anything to anyone. I said that I would expect that (maybe a language barrier here on my part). If he chooses to defy that expectation is up to him, but that would clash with my view of PS (at least until I hear an argument that keeps that view while also defying that expectation). And of course he is entitled as anyone to ignore all of this completely, after all I'm just a nobody on a forum in the grander scheme of things, but I'm also a potential customer, and I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this way. Expectations can change though, as with anything, I'm open to being proven wrong on this, but as I detail below in the next reply, I haven't found the argument sufficient



Corda1983 said:


> It’s just a murky area that’s not worth getting into. Allowing others to use your samples to create something that is then released publicly, even if for free, can muddy waters, create quality control issues and essentially starts putting your hard work into the realm of open source.


I get that business decisions are important to take into account, but unless there is a specific creativity point that makes Whisper Sustain Legatos clash with his artistic view on what the library should be (or shouldn't be), then I can't see how this would impact his business negatively. Anyone who wants to use any third-party .NKI for a library still has to purchase said library, where all original patches will be completely controlled by the developer, and all sales go towards that. He doesn't exactly shy away from adding disclaimers on his website, so there's no muddying waters nor any quality control needed, by removing official support completely. 8Dio did this with their Adagio/Agitato/Anthology string libraries. They don't offer any support for the third-party provided .NKIs (I've forgotten the name for that project), but Troels has shown his support for the project on this forum. Again I struggle to see what the downfalls are here? What exactly is making it go open source if you need purchased material to make it work, and on top of that a license to even be allowed to use it legally?


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## mussnig (Jan 3, 2023)

Petter Rong said:


> I didn't say he owed anything to anyone. I said that I would expect that (maybe a language barrier here on my part). If he chooses to defy that expectation is up to him, but that would clash with my view of PS (at least until I hear an argument that keeps that view while also defying that expectation). And of course he is entitled as anyone to ignore all of this completely, after all I'm just a nobody on a forum in the grander scheme of things, but I'm also a potential customer, and I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this way. Expectations can change though, as with anything, I'm open to being proven wrong on this, but as I detail below in the next reply, I haven't found the argument sufficient
> 
> 
> I get that business decisions are important to take into account, but unless there is a specific creativity point that makes Whisper Sustain Legatos clash with his artistic view on what the library should be (or shouldn't be), then I can't see how this would impact his business negatively. Anyone who wants to use any third-party .NKI for a library still has to purchase said library, where all original patches will be completely controlled by the developer, and all sales go towards that. He doesn't exactly shy away from adding disclaimers on his website, so there's no muddying waters nor any quality control needed, by removing official support completely. 8Dio did this with their Adagio/Agitato/Anthology string libraries. They don't offer any support for the third-party provided .NKIs (I've forgotten the name for that project), but Troels has shown his support for the project on this forum. Again I struggle to see what the downfalls are here? What exactly is making it go open source if you need purchased material to make it work, and on top of that a license to even be allowed to use it legally?


I think the comparison is a bit flawed here. If I understand correctly, the modified Whisper Sustains and Sordinos essentially modify patches that come with the library. So when you share these openly, people can have a look into the legato scripting and other things that come with the PS patches. While I don't think that anything extraordinary is going on there in terms of scripting, I can still understand that a developer doesn't want non-customers to have this.

On the other hand - again if I understand correctly - Sarah Mancuso wrote completely new patches for Adachi which do not contain any intellectual property of 8Dio.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

Petter Rong said:


> I didn't say he owed anything to anyone. I said that I would expect that (maybe a language barrier here on my part). If he chooses to defy that expectation is up to him, but that would clash with my view of PS (at least until I hear an argument that keeps that view while also defying that expectation). And of course he is entitled as anyone to ignore all of this completely, after all I'm just a nobody on a forum in the grander scheme of things, but I'm also a potential customer, and I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this way. Expectations can change though, as with anything, I'm open to being proven wrong on this, but as I detail below in the next reply, I haven't found the argument sufficient



So if English isn’t your first language I can see the slight confusion. But only at first. However, I don’t meant to come off too harsh. 

But you keep going to try to prove the same, & imo, incorrect point.

In my opinion, once hearing Jasper did not approve of people modding his library and sharing said mods violating his license agreement & saying “well then I promptly expect him to release a patch or to allow it to be shared” sounds very much entitled and that it is owed. If you don’t feel it’s owed, why would you expect that? Why would you expect him to do any more work on patches that weren’t designed to be legato in the first place. Why not expect him to make every patch legato then? Because it was not his intent.

I remember one of the beta testers speaking on this actually shortly before the libraries release. That the whisper sustains, with the way they were recorded, and the nature of them, would have weird transitions if it were to be scripted to legato or something. I can’t remember exactly.

But repurposing something for a use it wasn’t created for will usually just bring unrealistic results.

I feel like the man worked hard and long enough on this library and all these nit picky posts about this and that expectations simply feel rude and entitled.

And warrant many 👀👀👀


----------



## Uncle Ed (Jan 4, 2023)

I like music said:


> I don't like Cubase's CC drawing functionality. I believe there's a feature in Logic where you can simply click from one point to another, and it draws a between them, with the ability to drag a node up and down and that line will adjust between the two points. I wish Cubase would bloody do this.


There is in Cubase. Exactly how you describe it.


----------



## I like music (Jan 4, 2023)

Uncle Ed said:


> There is in Cubase. Exactly how you describe it.


What now?!?

When I last tried it (a while back admittedly) and I dragged a node up or down, it wouldn't draw a line between that one and the previous one, but simply a vertical step up. I'll revisit, because I promptly gave up and didn't look any further.

Thanks.


----------



## Corda1983 (Jan 4, 2023)

Petter Rong said:


> I didn't say he owed anything to anyone. I said that I would expect that (maybe a language barrier here on my part). If he chooses to defy that expectation is up to him, but that would clash with my view of PS (at least until I hear an argument that keeps that view while also defying that expectation). And of course he is entitled as anyone to ignore all of this completely, after all I'm just a nobody on a forum in the grander scheme of things, but I'm also a potential customer, and I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this way. Expectations can change though, as with anything, I'm open to being proven wrong on this, but as I detail below in the next reply, I haven't found the argument sufficient
> 
> 
> I get that business decisions are important to take into account, but unless there is a specific creativity point that makes Whisper Sustain Legatos clash with his artistic view on what the library should be (or shouldn't be), then I can't see how this would impact his business negatively. Anyone who wants to use any third-party .NKI for a library still has to purchase said library, where all original patches will be completely controlled by the developer, and all sales go towards that. He doesn't exactly shy away from adding disclaimers on his website, so there's no muddying waters nor any quality control needed, by removing official support completely. 8Dio did this with their Adagio/Agitato/Anthology string libraries. They don't offer any support for the third-party provided .NKIs (I've forgotten the name for that project), but Troels has shown his support for the project on this forum. Again I struggle to see what the downfalls are here? What exactly is making it go open source if you need purchased material to make it work, and on top of that a license to even be allowed to use it legally?



It’s not strictly making it open source, but it opens up a few artistic and commercial cans of worms.

Firstly there’s just the artistic/personal element of it - PS made the library a certain way and whilst we may all be able to think of ways we’d do things differently, this isn’t a group project. It’s not exactly the same but it’s not a whole lot different to if you wrote an album of music and someone came along and said “hey this album is great, but I have some ideas to make it better - why don’t I send them over and you release the updated album?”. There’s just a personal sense of wanting the product you worked hard on to stand as it is. Everyone is going to have a bunch of ideas for improvements and fixes but… as I say… it’s not a collaborative effort.


The business issue is more pressing though. Adachi is a good case - the work Sarah did was great but my understanding is it has caused tension between her and 8Dio around credit and compensation when Troels toyed with the idea of making it official in some way. That ultimately led to it remaining a free, personal project. I think it’s actually a good example of how something that worked for customers seemingly wasn’t an out and out success for the other parties involved.

Whatever people say at the outset about doing things for the love or not wanting compensation … it’s hard to know what will happen down the line. If you start putting other people’s NKIs into your library on goodwill and then they suddenly want payment or compensation for that - it could get problematic fast. And sure you could negotiate a fair share upfront but then you have to be sure, as a business, you’re getting your money’s worth and not inviting more confusion and problems than sales. Not easy to ascertain and another can of worms when you start exploring it.

I understand why people think we all want the best product and if one of us comes up with a great idea or fix, the product creator should of course incorporate that and (presumably) reap the benefits. But that’s not how business works. Pacific is what it is. There has never been an invite to fix any perceived issues and once you start going down the path it can get complex quickly. The assumption it’s a win-win doesn’t always hold up when you start thinking about it practically. Do you just allow it once? Ten times? Is suddenly your whole product the work of other people, who have improved your legato and retimed your shorts and cleaned up your UI?

It’s a good idea in principle and there may be select times it could work … but I get why businesses find it easier to create a product and then sell it “as is”, with future updates and fixes decided by the creator. It’s a much cleaner way of owning and protecting your work.


----------



## oceanic714 (Jan 4, 2023)

Lucas Bodenbender said:


> Okay, I had to do this... This comparison is not about the dynamics or the programming at all as I did that in a hurry. I just want to show the tonal quality of the library. The first one is Pacific and the second one is (obviously) the original.
> 
> 
> View attachment Pacific Strings_Binary Sunset.mp3


Okay, I'm sold 😍 So much life in these strings


----------



## ka00 (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> So if English isn’t your first language I can see the slight confusion. But only at first. However, I don’t meant to come off too harsh.
> 
> But you keep going to try to prove the same, & imo, incorrect point.
> 
> ...


Stop shaming the man.


----------



## Lucas Bodenbender (Jan 4, 2023)

oceanic714 said:


> Okay, I'm sold 😍 So much life in these strings


I do have to say that they actually feel really organic even though they have this default portamento. But what i really like is the tone of the library. If you are looking for romantic classical strings this will be a very good choice. Especially if you have other libraries to layer it with.


----------



## WillMah Gold (Jan 4, 2023)

Lucas Bodenbender said:


> I finished the whole mockup. Strings are Pacific only (including the solo cello from pacific solo strings)
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and I used that bonus room noise sample from the library to match the old recordings. So out of the box, they are not that noisy.



Holy moly, this is amazing! 
What woodwinds have you used?


----------



## Lucas Bodenbender (Jan 4, 2023)

WillMah Gold said:


> Holy moly, this is amazing!
> What woodwinds have you used?


Thank you. The flute is the one from Musical Sampling and every other woodwind is bbcso


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

ka00 said:


> Stop shaming the man.


What in the literal fuck? 

“Expectations can change though, as with anything, I'm open to being proven wrong on this, but as I detail below in the next reply, I haven't found the argument sufficient”

The adults are having a conversation. He’s leaving the floor open to debate and no one is talking to you. Or shaming anyone.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 4, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> Channeling my inner John Williams. This is all Pacific.
> 
> View attachment Pacific Noodle 7.2a.mp3
> 
> ...


Tonally, has some nice moments, but to your point, some of those transitions are rather...abrupt or fall apart completely (like the ascending faster line in the violins at the end). How much do you think that's due to your programming vs. the library itself?


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

Lucas Bodenbender said:


> Thank you. The flute is the one from Musical Sampling and every other woodwind is bbcso


Nice stuff! Which solo horn did you use for then classic line?


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## morgs500 (Jan 4, 2023)

Dan said:


> I am very impressed... I have never owned a string library that could make a musical passage like this sound so vibrant:
> 
> View attachment Brahms 1 Finale Pacific.mp3
> 
> from Brahms' 1st Symphony, unprocessed sound


Me too very impressed with this library here my first attempt


----------



## Stevie (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Why would you expect him to do any more work on patches that weren’t designed to be legato in the first place. Why not expect him to make every patch legato then? Because it was not his intent.


Because it would improve the product -> additional selling point -> happy customers -> more sales

Unless he doesn't care for anything of that.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

Stevie said:


> Because it would improve the product -> additional selling point -> happy customers -> more sales
> 
> Unless he doesn't care for anything of that.


Jesus Christ.

Read the specs of a library. Read it’s design and limitations. If it sounds like something that makes you happy. Buy it. Happy customer. 

Pacific strings has plenty of happy customers. Myself included. 

Expecting tons of extra features that were never intended? Read before you buy. 

Jesus Christ.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

I think I need to bow out from here for a bit. No wonder this forum chases away so many developers. 

I’m not even one and I’m getting the headaches of one.


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 4, 2023)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Tonally, has some nice moments, but to your point, some of those transitions are rather...abrupt or fall apart completely (like the ascending faster line in the violins at the end). How much do you think that's due to your programming vs. the library itself?


It's hard to say really. I'm still learning the library. It may be that i'm not using the best dynamic layers for this—as has been noted there's not a lot of distinction between layers aside from the portamento, so it can be easy to lose where you are in the dynamic layers when you are going by sound, and some layers may be better than others for certain tasks. 

But the library also raises obstacles, and not infrequently. This piece has a lot of tempo changes, and the legato doesn't seem to like that. I had to spend a lot of time fiddling with rhythmic placement of notes—nudging forward and backward—not for the sake of musical timing but to avoid bumpiness. Sometimes I get weird ring outs and drops in volume on notes that seem to have nothing to do with programmed CC1 or CC11 values. There are also places that sound to me like bow change repetitions that are written as sustains, which is fine when they sound musical, but often enough they don't. And it can be very hard to work around these within the library itself, because the philosophy of the library is that you take or leave what the scripting gives you. You can try a different dynamic layer and slightly different rhythmic placement of the notes, but that's about it. And there's not a second set of violins you can turn to when you encounter an issue. 

Pointing out the philosophy is not a criticism per se, but it's something anyone who buys the library should be aware of: the library may not behave the way you want it to and it doesn't allow much customization to alter to your liking (although you might be able to do more if you go into Kontakt). In any case, because of these issues, in real use I'd likely supplement Pacific by layering with another library. In any event, its legato for me is a special case legato rather than a general purpose one, much like I use Afflatus, Adachi, Vista, or Soaring Strings. It does some things really well, but I find its expressive range rather limited, and in the early stages of learning the library I find it a bit of a pain to work with mocking up something, even though it is fun to play and noodle with. I actually like its other patches, especially the spiccatos and marcatos, better than the legato/sustains.

I'm not sure what passage in particular you are referring to. But if it is the set of rising figures that gloss the final cadential progression, I'd say it's the library. I just went back and messed a bit with CC1 and never could get it to even out however I set and shaped CC1. So it may be possible to extract a better performance, or the passage might need a somewhat different tempo for the library to sound good, but it will take considerable work to get there, and it would likely be easier to just turn to a different library.

It's also possible that the library just doesn't play especially well with Logic. Overall, I would classify the legato as kind of buggy and some of what is being exposed here is that. But others aren't complaining about it, and Performance Samples has had issues with Logic in the past, so that's definitely a possibility, especially as I'm working with an older version of Logic (10.5.1) that may not have been tested.


----------



## ibanez1 (Jan 4, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> It's hard to say really. I'm still learning the library. It may be that i'm not using the best dynamic layers for this—as has been noted there's not a lot of distinction between layers aside from the portamento, so it can be easy to lose where you are in the dynamic layers when you are going by sound, and some layers may be better than others for certain tasks.
> 
> But the library also raises obstacles, and not infrequently. This piece has a lot of tempo changes, and the legato doesn't seem to like that. I had to spend a lot of time fiddling with rhythmic placement of notes—nudging forward and backward—not for the sake of musical timing but to avoid bumpiness. Sometimes I get weird ring outs and drops in volume on notes that seem to have nothing to do with programmed CC1 or CC11 values. There are also places that sound to me like bow change repetitions that are written as sustains, which is fine when they sound musical, but often enough they don't. And it can be very hard to work around these within the library itself, because the philosophy of the library is that you take or leave what the scripting gives you. You can try a different dynamic layer and slightly different rhythmic placement of the notes, but that's about it. And there's not a second set of violins you can turn to when you encounter an issue.
> 
> ...


If you want, I can try to take midi from one of these problematic passages and put it through cubase if you can provide it. That might reveal whether the DAW is playing a factor in it.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Jan 4, 2023)

Are the sordinos recorded or simulated?


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## artinro (Jan 4, 2023)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Are the sordinos recorded or simulated?


Recorded


----------



## Petter Rong (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> In my opinion, once hearing Jasper did not approve of people modding his library and sharing said mods violating his license agreement & saying “well then I promptly expect him to release a patch or to allow it to be shared” sounds very much entitled and that it is owed. If you don’t feel it’s owed, why would you expect that? Why would you expect him to do any more work on patches that weren’t designed to be legato in the first place. Why not expect him to make every patch legato then? Because it was not his intent.
> 
> I remember one of the beta testers speaking on this actually shortly before the libraries release. That the whisper sustains, with the way they were recorded, and the nature of them, would have weird transitions if it were to be scripted to legato or something. I can’t remember exactly.
> 
> ...


That is not how I said it, but I get your point. I don't try to come from an entitled position, nor do I intent to be rude towards Jasper. I don't even own the library (yet), so Jasper owes me absolutely nothing. I think I mean expectation in a different way, like that is what would be consistent with my view of a content creator who's different than the big player developers, valuing customer (or rather community) than holding back content to maximize profits or prevent giving more value in the product. That is what I feel that the choice of both restricting sharing and not develop anything to match that communicates the complete opposite of. Or that is at least what I thought when I wrote the previous comments. The points about it being unrealistic is IMO invalid or irrelevant when a member here could produce a satisfactory result.

Corda1983's response was a very good argument, though some of the points comparing it to the release of an album is a bit of a reach (tools vs artwork). As I said, I can see the point that if it doesn't align with what Jasper think the library is about, then that's fair, though disappointing to us who wants something a bit different. But in that instance I can actually agree with the album comparison, that the creative choice of the developer should be respected even if it doesn't align with what we/I want. Maybe I just wished the customer was at the center when developing tools that is supposed to help customers make music. But maybe I also was too short minded to post about expectations.


----------



## Petter Rong (Jan 4, 2023)

mussnig said:


> I think the comparison is a bit flawed here. If I understand correctly, the modified Whisper Sustains and Sordinos essentially modify patches that come with the library. So when you share these openly, people can have a look into the legato scripting and other things that come with the PS patches. While I don't think that anything extraordinary is going on there in terms of scripting, I can still understand that a developer doesn't want non-customers to have this.
> 
> On the other hand - again if I understand correctly - Sarah Mancuso wrote completely new patches for Adachi which do not contain any intellectual property of 8Dio.


Thanks for the clarification, that is a good point


----------



## Stevie (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Jesus Christ.


You can call me Stevie, but thanks.



Baronvonheadless said:


> Read the specs of a library. Read it’s design and limitations. If it sounds like something that makes you happy. Buy it. Happy customer.
> 
> Pacific strings has plenty of happy customers. Myself included.
> 
> ...


No boasting, but I own the whole PS catalogue, including Pacific.
I don't need to be convinced. I literally just posted reasons WHY it would be a good idea.

Maybe slow down your horses a bit, will you?


----------



## fahl5 (Jan 4, 2023)

Lucas Bodenbender said:


> I finished the whole mockup. Strings are Pacific only (including the solo cello from pacific solo strings)
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and I used that bonus room noise sample from the library to match the old recordings. So out of the box, they are not that noisy.



Where did you get the Pacific solo string Cello, as far as the PerformanceSample Website indicates it is not yet published!?


----------



## Stevie (Jan 4, 2023)

fahl5 said:


> Where did you get the Pacific solo string Cello, as far as the PerformanceSample Website indicates it is not yet published!?








Pacific – Solo Cello Legato – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## fahl5 (Jan 4, 2023)

Stevie said:


> Pacific – Solo Cello Legato – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah Ok I forgot the Freebies


----------



## Kevperry777 (Jan 4, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> It's hard to say really. I'm still learning the library. It may be that i'm not using the best dynamic layers for this—as has been noted there's not a lot of distinction between layers aside from the portamento, so it can be easy to lose where you are in the dynamic layers when you are going by sound, and some layers may be better than others for certain tasks.
> 
> But the library also raises obstacles, and not infrequently. This piece has a lot of tempo changes, and the legato doesn't seem to like that. I had to spend a lot of time fiddling with rhythmic placement of notes—nudging forward and backward—not for the sake of musical timing but to avoid bumpiness. Sometimes I get weird ring outs and drops in volume on notes that seem to have nothing to do with programmed CC1 or CC11 values. There are also places that sound to me like bow change repetitions that are written as sustains, which is fine when they sound musical, but often enough they don't. And it can be very hard to work around these within the library itself, because the philosophy of the library is that you take or leave what the scripting gives you. You can try a different dynamic layer and slightly different rhythmic placement of the notes, but that's about it. And there's not a second set of violins you can turn to when you encounter an issue.
> 
> ...


I resonate with every line of this and have thus far had the exact same experience as you. I’m in Cubase btw.


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## Lucas Bodenbender (Jan 4, 2023)

fahl5 said:


> Where did you get the Pacific solo string Cello, as far as the PerformanceSample Website indicates it is not yet published!?


There was a free demo downloadable for a limited time a year ago


----------



## Casiquire (Jan 4, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> Channeling my inner John Williams. This is all Pacific.
> 
> View attachment Pacific Noodle 7.2a.mp3
> 
> ...


Great writing, but...that portamento 😕 the library has a LOT of limitations that I think any buyer needs to consider, and not all of them are even addressed in the limitations the dev posts, which should be a sign of just how long the list really is. When it works, the results are stunning.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

Petter Rong said:


> That is not how I said it, but I get your point. I don't try to come from an entitled position, nor do I intent to be rude towards Jasper. I don't even own the library (yet), so Jasper owes me absolutely nothing. I think I mean expectation in a different way, like that is what would be consistent with my view of a content creator who's different than the big player developers, valuing customer (or rather community) than holding back content to maximize profits or prevent giving more value in the product. That is what I feel that the choice of both restricting sharing and not develop anything to match that communicates the complete opposite of. Or that is at least what I thought when I wrote the previous comments. The points about it being unrealistic is IMO invalid or irrelevant when a member here could produce a satisfactory result.
> 
> Corda1983's response was a very good argument, though some of the points comparing it to the release of an album is a bit of a reach (tools vs artwork). As I said, I can see the point that if it doesn't align with what Jasper think the library is about, then that's fair, though disappointing to us who wants something a bit different. But in that instance I can actually agree with the album comparison, that the creative choice of the developer should be respected even if it doesn't align with what we/I want. Maybe I just wished the customer was at the center when developing tools that is supposed to help customers make music. But maybe I also was too short minded to post about expectations.


Thanks for taking the time to reply, but I pretty much quoted you verbatim. 

Regardless. Let’s stop clogging the thread on this topic and save it for user demos. 

Happy to talk more in pm’s, but I don’t find it necessary. 

Apologies if I came off too strong. 

I’ve been having a hell of a week. Probably should focus on resting and less in this forum, I’m probably coming off unnecessarily aggressive because I don’t feel so hot. 

Cheers. 


✌🏼


----------



## ibanez1 (Jan 4, 2023)

Casiquire said:


> Great writing, but...that portamento 😕 the library has a LOT of limitations that I think any buyer needs to consider, and not all of them are even addressed in the limitations the dev posts, which should be a sign of just how long the list really is. When it works, the results are stunning.


Not that it's something we want to resort to for the library to be more flexible but does it work to drop CC1 near the transition for the large legato pitch jumps such that it doesn't trigger a heavy portamento? I noticed in this piece that it became the most repetitive and jarring when the violins were at high dynamic and the legato pitch interval was large. Other than that, the rest sounded good minus some of the release tails needing a little more finesse. @jbuhler where is your CC level hovering at near these transitions?


----------



## tebling (Jan 4, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> In any case, because of these issues, in real use I'd likely supplement Pacific by layering with another library. In any event, its legato for me is a special case legato rather than a general purpose one, much like I use Afflatus, Adachi, Vista, or Soaring Strings.



This, 100%. I'm experimenting with blending with CSS to "embiggen" certain thematic material within an action style piece, which while not physically realistic seems like it succeeds in making those melodic lines really sing - moreso than CSS on its own.


----------



## ryans (Jan 4, 2023)

Lucas Bodenbender said:


> I finished the whole mockup. Strings are Pacific only (including the solo cello from pacific solo strings)
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and I used that bonus room noise sample from the library to match the old recordings. So out of the box, they are not that noisy.



I love the tremolos and overall character of the strings here, very nice. Great programming.

That wrong note in the force theme though, unforgivable! :D


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 4, 2023)

Casiquire said:


> Great writing, but...that portamento 😕 the library has a LOT of limitations that I think any buyer needs to consider, and not all of them are even addressed in the limitations the dev posts, which should be a sign of just how long the list really is. When it works, the results are stunning.


Ironically, the portamento is one thing I'm pretty sure I could have avoided or at least minimized if I'd taken the time to shift the dynamic layers down without losing the intensity (see below for low port alternative). I came to like the sound on this (the reckless portamento is the thing about the library that most reminds me of studio era playing) so often I didn't bother to avoid it or even leaned into. 



ibanez1 said:


> Not that it's something we want to resort to for the library to be more flexible but does it work to drop CC1 near the transition for the large legato pitch jumps such that it doesn't trigger a heavy portamento? I


Well, even though the dynamic layers are not much distinguished in timbre, there still is a bit of a tradeoff on intensity, so it's not quite as simple as just uniformly reducing CC1.



ibanez1 said:


> Not that it's something we want to resort to for the library to be more flexible but does it work to drop CC1 near the transition for the large legato pitch jumps such that it doesn't trigger a heavy portamento? I noticed in this piece that it became the most repetitive and jarring when the violins were at high dynamic and the legato pitch interval was large. Other than that, the rest sounded good minus some of the release tails needing a little more finesse. @jbuhler where is your CC level hovering at near these transitions?


CC1:




CC11:






And two simple port reduced versions of opening. 

View attachment Pacific Noodle 7a (portless).mp3







Version 2:

View attachment Pacific Noodle 7b (portless).mp3


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 4, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> Ironically, the portamento is one thing I'm pretty sure I could have avoided or at least minimized if I'd taken the time to shift the dynamic layers down without losing the intensity (see below for low port alternative). I came to like the sound on this (the reckless portamento is the thing about the library that most reminds me of studio era playing) so often I didn't bother to avoid it or even leaned into.
> 
> 
> Well, even though the dynamic layers are not much distinguished in timbre, there still is a bit of a tradeoff on intensity, so it's not quite as simple as just uniformly reducing CC1.
> ...


Version 2 does sound a bit better and smoother to me in the transitions in first listen.


----------



## Soundbed (Jan 4, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> Ironically, the portamento is one thing I'm pretty sure I could have avoided or at least minimized if I'd taken the time to shift the dynamic layers down without losing the intensity (see below for low port alternative). I came to like the sound on this (the reckless portamento is the thing about the library that most reminds me of studio era playing) so often I didn't bother to avoid it or even leaned into.
> 
> 
> Well, even though the dynamic layers are not much distinguished in timbre, there still is a bit of a tradeoff on intensity, so it's not quite as simple as just uniformly reducing CC1.
> ...


I like v2 on the first couple listens, even though the cc is a little more jumpy.


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 4, 2023)

Soundbed said:


> I like v2 on the first couple listens, even though the cc is a little more jumpy.


I'll see if I can take some time tonight and take some care in crafting a low dynamic layer version, rather than these quick sketches.


----------



## FrozenIcicle (Jan 4, 2023)

Looks like Jasper’s releasing a new update to Pacific!!


----------



## Nicola74 (Jan 4, 2023)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Looks like Jasper’s releasing a new update to Pacific!!


Interesting, how do you know it?


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

Nicola74 said:


> Interesting, how do you know it?


Instagram story 🤌🏼


----------



## Soundbed (Jan 4, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> I'll see if I can take some time tonight and take some care in crafting a low dynamic layer version, rather than these quick sketches.


It’s mostly “visual” meaning it reminds me of the days when lots of synthestrators demonstrated all these “wicki-wicki-wah” DJ-like mod & expression gestures.

They were very serious about it, too. Like… “This is the way.”

Sounded good, but I often felt (personally) that there would come a time when one could do what AKD demonstrates; draw the arc of the phrase, not dip around every little transition.

I mean, Yahweh knows we’ve all tried to mod wheel our way into convincing performances. Some of us can actually do it well. 

The little “bumps” you’re mentioning are also things I’ve found with Pacific, though I haven’t found a bullet proof way to avoid them and sound good and not make lots of little cc moves, but … let’s face it, I’m spoiled. 😆


----------



## Honko (Jan 4, 2023)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Looks like Jasper’s releasing a new update to Pacific!!


Can't see the story... did he say what he will update?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jan 4, 2023)

jbuhler said:


> Channeling my inner John Williams. This is all Pacific.
> 
> View attachment Pacific Noodle 7.2a.mp3
> 
> ...


Did you try with less far mic? The close mic has a lot of the room sound on it's own. Sounds great as it is we could hear more details with more close mics.

Also for those who own Con Moto, i was thinking if layering it on top of Pacific to get ride of some unwanted portamento sometimes using Pacific's sustains instead and have Con Moto do the legato transition if you know what i mean. It's a lot of massaging but might be worth it because the sound is pretty special imo.


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 4, 2023)

Soundbed said:


> It’s mostly “visual” meaning it reminds me of the days when lots of synthestrators demonstrated all these “wicki-wicki-wah” DJ-like mod & expression gestures.
> 
> They were very serious about it, too. Like… “This is the way.”
> 
> ...


If they are predictable it's one thing: a bit of a pain, but manageable. And I've gotten used to drawing curves, some libraries requiring more elaborate curves than others. But it's something else if you have to approach each transition as though it's sui generis, requiring a special curve all its own. Then you are into painful tweaking, and really I'll reach for another library if it comes to that. Or I have to love the sound enough to be worth it (and some libraries are). But I won't know exactly which kind Pacific is until I've worked with it more, though I know already that I don't love the sound of the legato enough to spend lots of time memorizing all its idiosyncrasies.

As I mentioned up thread, I find the expressive range of the Pacific legato to be quite narrow, and so it will never be my go-to large ensemble legato. Given that, I'm only going to spend so much time learning it, and if it's too much of a pain, I'll go to it even less often. I do however love its spiccatos and marcatos, so there's that.

Still from the comments to the reworked opening it does seem I should explore the lower reaches of the legato a bit more before drawing conclusions.


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 4, 2023)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Did you try with less far mic? The close mic has a lot of the room sound on it's own. Sounds great as it is we could hear more details with more close mics.


Not yet. So far I've just been working with the default mic set up.


----------



## Sovereign (Jan 4, 2023)

Honko said:


> Can't see the story... did he say what he will update?


This is the post:


----------



## ka00 (Jan 4, 2023)

Sovereign said:


> This is the post:


Trying to make out the bullets. Is it?

- Sample Fixes
- Patch Fixes
- Script Features/Fixes
- New Features/Changes


----------



## FrozenIcicle (Jan 4, 2023)

ka00 said:


> Trying to make out the bullets. Is it?
> 
> - Sample Fixes
> - Patch Fixes
> ...


Yeh tough to make out but think you’re correct


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jan 4, 2023)

Great new!


----------



## ka00 (Jan 4, 2023)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Yeh tough to make out but think you’re correct


If sordino and whisper legato patches are part of this update my mind will be blown.


----------



## ScarletJerry (Jan 4, 2023)

I tried squinting a little and here's what I read:

-Sample Fixes
-New Williams Legato patch
-Rachmaninoff Whisper patch
-AI composing assistant


----------



## eric_w (Jan 4, 2023)

I bit the bullet.

Pacific is the best string library for bread and butter big symphonic shorts and legatos. Nobody will be able to convince me otherwise 

Necessities for people like me:
Beautiful baked in hall sound (because I suck at reverb)
while maintaining clarity (because I suck at eq)
Excellent tonal balance across the board (because I suck at eq)
Super expressive legatos 
Spiccatos that can take on just about anything
Life right out of the box 

I'm going through some of my old projects and replacing all the strings with Pacific (and sometimes adding the Blakus eq) and they immediately come to life. Fuck me this is good.


----------



## Raphioli (Jan 4, 2023)

ka00 said:


> Trying to make out the bullets. Is it?
> 
> - Sample Fixes
> - Patch Fixes
> ...


I had hopes of bug fixes, since the delay knob in the ensemble patch wasn't working in Blakus's Pacific Youtube video and he was mentioning of reporting it in said video. 

But I wasn't expecting "New Features".
Very surprised. Curious and excited what kind of feature he's going to add.

Don't know what kind of changes are coming, but I'm definitely going to backup the current patches just in case.
Because I like the current legato patch and it has its place for me.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jan 4, 2023)

Raphioli said:


> But I wasn't expecting "New Features".
> Very surprised. Curious and excited what kind of feature he's going to add.


Maybe control over portamento via velocity? Hit the key hard and trigger the whole portamento. Hit the key softly and trigger a shorten protamento via sample start. Assuming it's effective. All speculation on my part of course.


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 4, 2023)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Maybe control over portamento via velocity? Hit the key hard and trigger the whole portamento. Hit the key softly and trigger a shorten protamento via sample start. Assuming it's effective. All speculation on my part of course.


That would be nice. Assuming, as you say, it's effective.


----------



## Soundbed (Jan 4, 2023)

Rachmaninoff I am NOT.

EDIT — updated version, none of the effects mentioned below... needed to switch DAWs.
View attachment Pacfic Raman Noodles Tempo.mp3


~

Sketched a little on the piano, tried some legato violins in octaves (tuning trick on vln2 and panning close mic -4dB). Started with whisper sus on celli and viola but didn't record that; BELOW, you're hearing after I switched to legato and re-did their mod wheels. Con sord bass (sustains). Each string section has its own mod wheel pass (one try only — the whole thing was done very quickly). Cinematic Rooms "Bowing Hall" preset at -7dB before a little juju compressor / limiter action that only kicks in gently twice.

(The string voicing, and really the whole "arrangement" for strings could be better, but I wanted to see how well a quick, rubato chords & melody piano idea would translate ... imho it needs more time to start working as a piece of music, but I'll post this first draft anyway.)






Pacific Raman Noodles 3x:
View attachment Pacific Raman Noodles 3x.mp3


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

Question on the topic of Blakus's EQ and treatment of Pacific, I am happy with the library as is but always down to experiment. 
I don't have cinematic rooms so I'm using 7th heaven scoring stage (I'm usually a fan of that or boston hall).

Regarding EQ - I don't have fabfilter so I'm using logic's stock EQ which is fine. 

But I have plugin alliances master bundle, and was wondering if there's a specific EQ from Plugin alliance that would be comparable to Fabfilter, or if anyone else uses PA stuff?


I love the bx master desk and true peak limiter. I use one or the other (sometimes a combo) on my master bus. But the Digital v3 eq by BX is a bit different to me and slightly confusing. 


Also, the amount of plugin alliance plugins is overwhelming, so I'm looking for an arrow towards a path. 
Thanks!


----------



## Honko (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Question on the topic of Blakus's EQ and treatment of Pacific, I am happy with the library as is but always down to experiment.
> I don't have cinematic rooms so I'm using 7th heaven scoring stage (I'm usually a fan of that or boston hall).
> 
> Regarding EQ - I don't have fabfilter so I'm using logic's stock EQ which is fine.
> ...


The best would be Kirchoff EQ.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

Honko said:


> The best would be Kirchoff EQ.


Oh sick! Thank you. Looks like it’s a new one there. Nice!


----------



## jcrosby (Jan 4, 2023)

Logic's stock EQ is totally fine FYI. A digital parametric EQ is a digital parametric EQ in terms of basic, static EQ-ing. The upside to Pro-Q is all of its other features like dynamic EQ, spectrum grab, EQ matching, mixed phase, etc...

Just saying I wouldn't spend $150 on the Kirchoff EQ unless you genuinely think you'll be making use of the majority of its features... Also something to be aware of, Plugin Alliance have artifically inflated its value, before they started distributing it the off the shelf price was $149 IIRC, not $300. I'm just saying don't let their marketing tactics influence you


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Jan 4, 2023)

jcrosby said:


> Logic's stock EQ is totally fine FYI. A digital parametric EQ is a digital parametric EQ in terms of basic, static EQ-ing. The upside to Pro-Q is all of its other features like dynamic EQ, spectrum grab, EQ matching, mixed phase, etc...
> 
> Just saying I wouldn't spend $150 on the Kirchoff EQ unless you genuinely think you'll be making use of the majority of its features... Also something to be aware of, Plugin Alliance have artifically inflated its value, before they started distributing it the off the shelf price was $149 IIRC, not $300. I'm just saying don't let their marketing tactics influence you


I pay $15 a month for the mix and master bundle 🤟🏼


----------



## mgaewsj (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Question on the topic of Blakus's EQ and treatment of Pacific, I am happy with the library as is but always down to experiment.
> I don't have cinematic rooms so I'm using 7th heaven scoring stage (I'm usually a fan of that or boston hall).
> 
> Regarding EQ - I don't have fabfilter so I'm using logic's stock EQ which is fine.
> ...


you could give a try to Hornet TotalEQ








TotalEQ, visual equalizer with analog emulation and dynamic bands - HoRNet Plugins


Versatile visual EQ with analog emulation



www.hornetplugins.com




cheap but effective (dynamic, mid/side, etc.)
you can try the demo and they very often have 70% discount


----------



## Petter Rong (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> But I have plugin alliances master bundle, and was wondering if there's a specific EQ from Plugin alliance that would be comparable to Fabfilter, or if anyone else uses PA stuff?


I haven't used the Kirchoff, which they only recently added to PA, but I've used FabFilter for a couple of years now, and it's easily my most handy tool. Not even because of any additional features, but just because it's so easy and comfortable to use quickly (say, compared to Logic stock EQ). Looking at all the additional features in Kirchoff, can't say I regret buying FabFilter, but I probably would have gone for Kirchoff today. The more comprehensive dynamics controls and special curves essentially makes multiband compressors (like ProMB) obsolete IMO, and the overview panel at the bottom is especially handy when you have lots of bands working that can be hard to select in the graph. The text-resolution looks very off though.


----------



## Petter Rong (Jan 4, 2023)

jcrosby said:


> Also something to be aware of, Plugin Alliance have artifically inflated its value, before they started distributing it the off the shelf price was $149 IIRC, not $300. I'm just saying don't let their marketing tactics influence you


Waves be like


----------



## jazzman7 (Jan 4, 2023)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply, but I pretty much quoted you verbatim.
> 
> Regardless. Let’s stop clogging the thread on this topic and save it for user demos.
> 
> ...


Feel Better soon, Bro


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 4, 2023)

A new variant of the little piece I posted above, much of it reworked to much lower dynamic layers. I like the dynamic and tonal contrast in this version but I find the legato is sometimes bumpier and harder to control at the lower dynamics. In any case, I may keep working on it to see if I can figure out what CC shapes suit the legato transitions.

New version:

View attachment Pacific Noodle 7.3d.mp3


The original (for reference): 

View attachment Pacific Noodle 7.2a.mp3


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## I like music (Thursday at 12:00 AM)

ka00 said:


> Trying to make out the bullets. Is it?
> 
> - Sample Fixes
> - Patch Fixes
> ...


God, imagine selling out to The Purists, just like that...


----------



## I like music (Thursday at 12:06 AM)

jbuhler said:


> A new variant of the little piece I posted above, much of it reworked to much lower dynamic layers. I like the dynamic and tonal contrast in this version but I find the legato is sometimes bumpier and harder to control at the lower dynamics. In any case, I may keep working on it to see if I can figure out what CC shapes suit the legato transitions.
> 
> New version:
> 
> ...


First, I love the music. I also love the tone. However, the bumpiness is quite a bit more pronounced than I would like. Something isn't _quite_ sitting right in the fluidity of the phrasing and the legato. Did you find it a bit of a challenge to work with because you're new to the library or do you think it just would take a _lot_ of tinkering to make something like this?


----------



## jbuhler (Thursday at 6:52 AM)

I like music said:


> First, I love the music. I also love the tone. However, the bumpiness is quite a bit more pronounced than I would like. Something isn't _quite_ sitting right in the fluidity of the phrasing and the legato. Did you find it a bit of a challenge to work with because you're new to the library or do you think it just would take a _lot_ of tinkering to make something like this?


Thank you for the nice words! I agree that the performance is bumpier than is ideal. It’s likely a mix of me not yet quite knowing how to get the library to sing and the library being a bit more difficult than is usually the case. It’s not an easy theme for VIs among other reasons because it has a lot of rebowed unison repetitions. Pacific handles most of those really well and better than other libraries I have, which is great. But it also throws in a few more than is called for and at inopportune times, which is not so great. I’ve not been able to figure out how to avoid these additions. Some notes, especially at lower dynamic layers, just want to pop out or dip in volume of their own accord and changing CC shapes only does so much to mitigate it. Or I haven’t yet found the right approach to coax the script to play what I want. I want to say those are issues with Pacific’s legato scripting but I really don’t yet know if the library is not capable of playing what I want or if it is my inexperience with the library, so it’s likely hasty to conclude that. In any case other libraries I own don’t present me this kind of challenge (though they present other challenges that Pacific does not). And I’m also left wondering if the tempo I chose is a bad match to the library, if some of the problem lies in poor choices of my virtual conducting, or perhaps if Pacific’s negative delay doesn’t get along with a tempo map that has lots of tempo changes. I do find that I often need to nudge notes ahead or behind where I want them placed, but moving notes about doesn’t solve every issue. 

I’ll next try changing the response of the library using the controls on the second tab. I’m hoping that getting more CC resolution at lower dynamic layers might yield better fine control. But I haven’t yet explored this functionality and so don’t really know if it will help.


----------



## I like music (Thursday at 7:24 AM)

jbuhler said:


> Thank you for the nice words! I agree that the performance is bumpier than is ideal. It’s likely a mix of me not yet quite knowing how to get the library to sing and the library being a bit more difficult than is usually the case. It’s not an easy theme for VIs among other reasons because it has a lot of rebowed unison repetitions. Pacific handles most of those really well and better than other libraries I have, which is great. But it also throws in a few more than is called for and at inopportune times, which is not so great. I’ve not been able to figure out how to avoid these additions. Some notes, especially at lower dynamic layers, just want to pop out or dip in volume of their own accord and changing CC shapes only does so much to mitigate it. Or I haven’t yet found the right approach to coax the script to play what I want. I want to say those are issues with Pacific’s legato scripting but I really don’t yet know if the library is not capable of playing what I want or if it is my inexperience with the library, so it’s likely hasty to conclude that. In any case other libraries I own don’t present me this kind of challenge (though they present other challenges that Pacific does not). And I’m also left wondering if the tempo I chose is a bad match to the library, if some of the problem lies in poor choices of my virtual conducting, or perhaps if Pacific’s negative delay doesn’t get along with a tempo map that has lots of tempo changes. I do find that I often need to nudge notes ahead or behind where I want them placed, but moving notes about doesn’t solve every issue.
> 
> I’ll next try changing the response of the library using the controls on the second tab. I’m hoping that getting more CC resolution at lower dynamic layers might yield better fine control. But I haven’t yet explored this functionality and so don’t really know if it will help.


This will be a great case-study in what sort of learning curves go into libraries. Really curious to hear your thoughts as the weeks go by, and understanding what kind of beast Pacific is to ultimately work with. Will be following closely and (hopefully!) you get to a point where you can confidently point to "it is the library" or "some combination of the library and me" so that we know what we're dealing with.

btw it sounds like you have tried this one with other libraries. While I don't want the focus to move away from Pacific, were there any that were able to do 90% of what you wanted fairly easily?


----------



## jbuhler (Thursday at 8:05 AM)

I like music said:


> This will be a great case-study in what sort of learning curves go into libraries. Really curious to hear your thoughts as the weeks go by, and understanding what kind of beast Pacific is to ultimately work with. Will be following closely and (hopefully!) you get to a point where you can confidently point to "it is the library" or "some combination of the library and me" so that we know what we're dealing with.
> 
> btw it sounds like you have tried this one with other libraries. While I don't want the focus to move away from Pacific, were there any that were able to do 90% of what you wanted fairly easily?


Yes, the piece and tempo map was adapted from something else. The tempo map was adjusted where it made sense, and the midi automation was completely reworked (and a lot of note placements were nudged earlier and later than in the original). So the piece and performance wasn't composed to Pacific specifically, but it was more like using Pacific to do a midi mockup of an existing score. My interest in doing it was that I thought the piece was a good match to Pacific's tone, which I find sweet and light for such a large section.


----------



## borisb2 (Thursday at 12:28 PM)

jbuhler said:


> Channeling my inner John Williams. This is all Pacific.
> 
> View attachment Pacific Noodle 7.2a.mp3
> 
> ...


Great piece, great string-sound. But that constant rollercoaster-portamento is a dealbreaker for me, it totally ruins the perception for me. Sounds like drunken players

Such a shame - I hope it gets fixed / added more controls


----------



## jbuhler (Thursday at 12:31 PM)

borisb2 said:


> Great piece, great string-sound. But that constant rollercoaster-portamento is a dealbreaker for me, it totally ruins the perception for me. Sounds like drunken players


Check out the version down the page (with less portamento): 






Pacific Strings - user demo thread


Rachmaninoff I am NOT. Sketched a little on the piano, tried some legato violins in octaves (tuning trick on vln2 and panning close mic -4dB). Started with whisper sus on celli and viola but didn't record that; you're hearing after I switched to legato and re-did their mod wheels. Con sord bass...




vi-control.net


----------



## Vik (Thursday at 1:39 PM)

borisb2 said:


> Such a shame - I hope it gets fixed / added more controls


Ask Blakus. He demonstrated in his walkthrough that he could avoid them. Try to set the velociy value for the track in question to a negative value (-15, -50 or something else) and see what happens?


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## jbuhler (Thursday at 1:55 PM)

Comparison of sordinos and whispers on the opening to Shostakovich 11. The score calls for sordinos pp.

Sordino (sustains)

View attachment Shostakovich 11 opening (Pacific Sordinos) 1.0.mp3


Whisper (sustains)

View attachment Shostakovich 11 opening (Pacific Whisper) 1.0.mp3


My ability to ride the dynamic layers still needs a bit of practice, and this was done almost entirely on the lower half of the modwheel.


----------



## jbuhler (Thursday at 1:56 PM)

Vik said:


> Ask Blakus. He demonstrated in his walkthrough that he could avoid them. Try to set the velociy value for the track in question to a negative value (-15, -50 or something else) and see what happens?


You need to keep the modwheel below about 80 or so, the lower the better.


----------



## novaburst (Thursday at 2:06 PM)

You can bind expression with C1 and move together for a more tighter control, 

Or if you have a few sliders spare you can CC expression and C1 next to each other and move at the same time,

I found this gave a much more tighter control over what the instrument was doing


----------



## Vik (Thursday at 2:16 PM)

jbuhler said:


> You need to keep the modwheel below about 80 or so, the lower the better.


That's not an option for me (or I have misunderstood what you are writing?). Since the modwheel controls the dynamics, and, jeeping the modwheel below 80 or as low as possible means avoding the most intense dyn. layers, doesn't it? Some claim that there already are small differences between the various CC layers (and my early experiments suggests something similar, buy I haven't had enough time with it yet), but I'll use all the dynamic layers I have – and I guess that's true for Jesper Blunk as well. Why make a library with four layers if you have two stay away from some of them in order to not have portamento all over the place? @Blakus, some testers or someone else, please chime in!


----------



## Vik (Thursday at 2:18 PM)

novaburst said:


> You can bind expression with C1


I always avoid that, since it starts sounding like MIDI/volume changes and not dynamic changes once one use that method.

The simplest and most obvious method which makes sense is that portamento is triggered only under certain circumstances – eg. for notes with velocities above a certain value, with the pedal down, with the pitchwheel up (bad idea for us who don't have a pitchwheel!!!), or something else – totally independent on which dynamic layer which is active.


----------



## jbuhler (Thursday at 2:50 PM)

Vik said:


> That's not an option for me (or I have misunderstood what you are writing?). Since the modwheel controls the dynamics, and, jeeping the modwheel below 80 or as low as possible means avoding the most intense dyn. layers, doesn't it? Some claim that there already are small differences between the various CC layers (and my early experiments suggests something similar, buy I haven't had enough time with it yet), but I'll use all the dynamic layers I have – and I guess that's true for Jesper Blunk as well. Why make a library with four layers if you have two stay away from some of them in order to not have portamento all over the place? @Blakus, some testers or someone else, please chime in!


That's correct. That's the tradeoff. You can dip back under the threshold for triggering the prominent portamento for just the transition and then shoot back up and compensate by raising CC11 while you bring down CC1, but that's just a very kludgy way to substitute a softer dynamic layer legato for the more intense one that has the portamento. You end up with more fussy modwheel work and usually a bumpier legato. 

As far as I can tell, velocity doesn't do anything on the legato patch, but since there isn't yet a manual, or even really a full walkthrough, it's possible there is some functionality hiding in velocity.


----------



## novaburst (Thursday at 3:01 PM)

I am still getting into the library,

Expression is just a volume, you can even use the main volume if you want, i find the Makeup knob the best, you can also bind to your dynamic range to give movement,, your mics can be also implemented with CC and have them move in and out while the instrument is playing giving another form of expression. 

anyways just experimenting


----------



## novaburst (Thursday at 3:04 PM)

jbuhler said:


> As far as I can tell, velocity doesn't do anything on the legato patch,


It does and has a big effect on the legato, go into you midi edit and play your piece then move your velocity tag up and down you can hear the difference


----------



## jbuhler (Thursday at 3:24 PM)

novaburst said:


> It does and has a big effect on the legato, go into you midi edit and play your piece then move your velocity tag up and down you can hear the difference


Playing with fixed velocity hard or soft didn’t seem to do anything on legato transitions, when I was just noodling about. But maybe I wasn’t focusing on the right thing. I didn’t check that changes in velocity, as you might get in the act of playing, might change behavior. In any case is expected behavior of velocity documented anywhere?


----------



## ibanez1 (Thursday at 8:02 PM)

jbuhler said:


> A new variant of the little piece I posted above, much of it reworked to much lower dynamic layers. I like the dynamic and tonal contrast in this version but I find the legato is sometimes bumpier and harder to control at the lower dynamics. In any case, I may keep working on it to see if I can figure out what CC shapes suit the legato transitions.
> 
> New version:
> 
> ...


Just got a chance to listen to this. There are some bumps in the transitions but that sound is so good and the dynamic crescendos you can do with the modwheel feel so alive. I think the newer version really has alleviated a lot of the heavier portamento.


----------



## QuiteAlright (Friday at 12:44 AM)

Living Fossil said:


> That's why I'm always so fixated on having the opportunity to detune the sound.
> (which e.g. CSS, BBC SO and – as it seems – Pacific don't offer)


You're correct that BBC doesn't offer a detune controller, but it will automatically detune the sound somewhat for fast runs. I know that BS and HS offer some variety of detunes fast strings, but I don't think they have controllers for it either. I think they have it as separate articulations.


----------



## I like music (Friday at 2:13 AM)

novaburst said:


> It does and has a big effect on the legato, go into you midi edit and play your piece then move your velocity tag up and down you can hear the difference


Wait, really? I mean this is the kind of behaviour I'd hope for, but in this thread there has been no indication that the type of transition triggered is impacted by velocity.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't the first thing most users tried, but you might be the only person to have said this so far!


----------



## Lord Daknight (Friday at 4:34 AM)

Lucas Bodenbender said:


> I finished the whole mockup. Strings are Pacific only (including the solo cello from pacific solo strings)
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and I used that bonus room noise sample from the library to match the old recordings. So out of the box, they are not that noisy.



Whoa, how did you make it sound like the 70s? I've been looking on how to do that and people say to use Vinyl but I find that's not enough


----------



## Lucas Bodenbender (Friday at 4:40 AM)

Lord Daknight said:


> Whoa, how did you make it sound like the 70s? I've been looking on how to do that and people say to use Vinyl but I find that's not enough


Most importantly i increased the volume of the noise floor by adding the room noise samples that are coming with Pacific Strings. And than i used a neve channel strip to overdrive the input gain on the loudest part so you get that analog clipping from the preamps. Cut some of the lows and boost the highs until it sounds destroyed enough 😅


----------



## Kevperry777 (Friday at 4:45 AM)

ibanez1 said:


> . I think the newer version really has alleviated a lot of the heavier portamento.


 New version? Have you heard it?


----------



## Evans (Friday at 5:31 AM)

Kevperry777 said:


> New version? Have you heard it?


I think they're referring to the newer version of jbuhler's audio example.


----------



## Soundbed (Friday at 5:51 AM)

novaburst said:


> It does and has a big effect on the legato, go into you midi edit and play your piece then move your velocity tag up and down you can hear the difference


?

It will be a few hours before I can test this myself.

Proof or it didn’t happen. 😆


----------



## I like music (Friday at 5:53 AM)

Evans said:


> I think they're referring to the newer version of jbuhler's audio example.


Ahhhhh good shout. Yep, that's it.


----------



## jbuhler (Friday at 7:21 AM)

novaburst said:


> It does and has a big effect on the legato, go into you midi edit and play your piece then move your velocity tag up and down you can hear the difference


So I explored this, tried moving the velocity up and down, even tried randomizing it, and I get no difference in behavior on the legato.


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## artinro (Friday at 7:21 AM)

novaburst said:


> It does and has a big effect on the legato, go into you midi edit and play your piece then move your velocity tag up and down you can hear the difference


Just to clarify here, velocity does NOT have an affect on the legato script.


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## Vik (Friday at 7:42 AM)

artinro said:


> Just to clarify here, velocity does NOT have an affect on the legato scr



That makes me wonder what exactly Blakus did when he demonstrated how one could avoid unwanted portamento occurrences in this video?


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## ka00 (Friday at 7:52 AM)

Vik said:


> That makes me wonder how what exactly Blakus did when he demonstrated how one could avoid unwanted portamento occurrences in this video?



Modwheel usage. Lower dynamics do not engage portamento.


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## Vik (Friday at 8:11 AM)

I know, but I didn't notice that he was in the lower dynamic range when he demonstrated that. Will check again.
If that's the only way, I hope they implement a way to bypass portamento when needed (eg. with a pedal or velocity=1). I don't mind having that portamento on when I play, as long as there's a way to go through the MIDI recording afterwards and bypass it.


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## jbuhler (Friday at 8:23 AM)

Vik said:


> I know, but I didn't notice that he was in the lower dynamic range when he demonstrated that. Will check again.
> If that's the only way, I hope they implement a way to bypass portamento when needed (eg. with a pedal or velocity=1). I don't mind having that portamento on when I play, as long as there's a way to go through the MIDI recording afterwards and bypass it.


My recollection is that he said with Pacific he uses a lower value on the modwheel than he would on most libraries and saves the upper part of the modwheel for special usage. So basically he is avoiding using the top layer legato transitions to reduce the portamento.


----------



## Vik (Friday at 10:26 AM)

jbuhler said:


> My recollection is that he said with Pacific he uses a lower value on the modwheel than he would on most libraries and saves the upper part of the modwheel for special usage.



Yes things calm down around 80. If the uppermost third doesn't contain any unique samples, that coulc actually have a positive side effect, because then one could do some trickery with volume or CC1 to get a usable result.

Also – maybe the legato transitions from the lower dynamic range could be used in the upper register, with some Kontakt tweaking? Having said that, the easiest is of course if they have all the samples they need in order to offer an update with manual portamento control.

If not, maybe even the legato transitions in Vista could serve as some not-so-syrupy transitions in Pacific too, when portamento isn't needed? I have nothing against Pacific's portamento or maple syrup of course, I just miss a simple way to play without much thinking – without ending up to with too much portamento.


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## jbuhler (Friday at 10:53 AM)

Vik said:


> If not, maybe the the legato transitions in Vista could serve as some not-so-syrupy transitions in Pacific too, when portamento isn't needed? I have nothing against Pacific's portamento or maple syrup, I just miss a simple way to play without much thinking – and to not end up with portmentos that feel misplaced.


Honestly, it seems a bit of a weird decision, seeing the pushback it's receiving. Even if one was going to implement portamento in the basic dynamic framework, it seems like restricting portamento to CC1 above say 120 would make more sense than bringing it in at the levels the library ships with. Or as someone else suggested, portamento could be put on a velocity trigger. The question I guess is whether there is a legato interval with enough intensity to pass to the high intensity sustain without making the legato sound bumpy. From my working with the library I think there is, and I understand that developers use fewer dynamics for legatos than for the sustains quite often, but I also haven't done that kind of audio editing and scripting, so I don't know all that's involved.


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## ScarletJerry (Friday at 11:43 AM)

39 pages if posts later, and I'm still on the fence about getting Pacific. Not because I don't think that it's a great library, but except for the whisper sustains and the unique harp sound, I think that I can replicate its sounds with my existing libraries. I have CSS, CS2 Vista, Soaring Strings, and Anthology/Adagio/Adachi. The thing that is nagging me the most is that when I play Vista legato along with the Pacific YouTube demos, the tone is almost indiscernible! Can anyone who has both confirm this? If It didn't have Vista already, this would be an "insta buy" (but then again, it would be much more expensive). I'm so confused.


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## gst98 (Friday at 12:07 PM)

ScarletJerry said:


> 39 pages if posts later, and I'm still on the fence about getting Pacific. Not because I don't think that it's a great library, but except for the whisper sustains and the unique harp sound, I think that I can replicate its sounds with my existing libraries. I have CSS, CS2 Vista, Soaring Strings, and Anthology/Adagio/Adachi. The thing that is nagging me the most is that when I play Vista legato along with the Pacific YouTube demos, the tone is almost indiscernible! Can anyone who has both confirm this? If It didn't have Vista already, this would be an "insta buy" (but then again, it would be much more expensive). I'm so confused.


I don't find the tone the same at all. I mean they are similar to some degree, same part of the world, same engineering etc, but one of my gripes with vista was the nasal midrange it can have. particularly the cellos. Partly because they are smaller groups of players, and partly because of the different room. But I don't know how you could think the two sound the same tbh. Con moto is far more similar, but even in the same room, they sound different enough that I'm still using both. SSS and SCS have the same SF sound, but also sound distinct from each other.

The other thing is that 95% of this thread has been focused on the legatos. To me the big deal is every other articulation. That's where the detail is, and where it's lightyears ahead of the competition in terms of detail and nuance. Precisely-edited, large sections in a spacious hall, now with more dynamics than ever at a great value. As long as you like the lively raw sound that is.


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## ism (Friday at 12:20 PM)

I think it's more that Pacific can do "Vista, but big". And I have had the experience, with at least some Pacific demos, of feeling that they sound like something that might have been done in Vista, but with a dab of "extra bigness" colour splashed on it, and thinking: "well that's a nice new shade of extra bigness colouring alright, except that I'm perfectly happy the existing vista colour" (I paraphrase).

But there are other demos that really lean into Pacific's capacity for orchestral grandeur (for instance), @jbuhler channelling Williams, for instance.

And then I feel we're in starting to head into territory that Vista will never take you to.


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## Baronvonheadless (Friday at 12:23 PM)

gst98 said:


> I don't find the tone the same at all. I mean they are similar to some degree, same part of the world, same engineering etc, but one of my gripes with vista was the nasal midrange it can have. particularly the cellos. Partly because they are smaller groups of players, and partly because of the different room. But I don't know how you could think the two sound the same tbh. Con moto is far more similar, but even in the same room, they sound different enough that I'm still using both. SSS and SCS have the same SF sound, but also sound distinct from each other.
> 
> The other thing is that 95% of this thread has been focused on the legatos. To me the big deal is every other articulation. That's where the detail is, and where it's lightyears ahead of the competition in terms of detail and nuance. Precisely-edited, large sections in a spacious hall, now with more dynamics than ever at a great value. As long as you like the lively raw sound that is.


Precisely. I remember when the first demos of the pizz, staccato, tremolo, whisper sustains and marcatos came out. People were losing their shit about it. 

But now that it’s out most people are focusing on the legato. Which is fine IMO. 

However, the dynamics and juiciness of the pizz, marcato, trem, sordinos and so on truly make the a difference and so much more alive than most of my other libraries. 

Including BBC PRO, MSS, CSS, etc. 

To me the best symphonic shorts and pizz, and have the vibrancy that I feel like abbey road 2 has compared to other sections that size etc. 

Anyways, I’ll still use a lot of what I have depending on the context but pacific is def going to be my main library mixed with css (love css’s fast runs and sfz long shorts).


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## gst98 (Friday at 12:49 PM)

ism said:


> I think it's more that Pacific can do "Vista, but big". And I have had the experience, with at least some Pacific demos, of feeling that they sound like something that might have been done in Vista, but with a dab of "extra bigness" colour splashed on it, and thinking: "well that's a nice new shade of extra bigness colouring alright, except that I'm perfectly happy the existing vista colour" (I paraphrase).
> 
> But there are other demos that really lean into Pacific's capacity for orchestral grandeur (for instance), @jbuhler channelling Williams, for instance.
> 
> And then I feel we're in starting to head into territory that Vista will never take you to.


Yes I think that’s correct. I would say that’s because it’s the performance samples house sound, alive and full of movement. Same way SF has their sound. so as long as we’re talking just legato, then preferring vista is largely a tonal choice. Although, aside from the top fff dynamic, pac is less slurred than vista and has less vib, which makes it more appropriate for most lines. There are many demos in this thread that are overusing that esppressivo dynamic, but the lower legatos can be very nimble and do great back and forth playing. If you listen to the official walkthroughs and Blake’s one, no one ever had a problem with it being too slurred. I think it will just take a bit of time for people to get used to how pac operates.


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## gst98 (Friday at 12:54 PM)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Precisely. I remember when the first demos of the pizz, staccato, tremolo, whisper sustains and marcatos came out. People were losing their shit about it.
> 
> But now that it’s out most people are focusing on the legato. Which is fine IMO.
> 
> ...


I got so fed up of having to mix and match artics from different libraries to get the full palette that I desired. Now I have them all under one library, and to a higher level than I did before. My vast strings template has now been reduced to pacific + sss (just for niche artics.) and a couple of alternate things like SF App or Con Moto. My workflow is much more streamlined and fast now


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## Snarf (Friday at 2:29 PM)

Baronvonheadless said:


> But now that it’s out most people are focusing on the legato.


I'm pretty sure it's the same dozen or so people, not that many.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Friday at 2:35 PM)

Snarf said:


> I'm pretty sure it's the same dozen or so people, not that many.


True true, I just remember that not even being too big a topic before hand. Everyone was drooling over the other patches. Which are what make this library shine.


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## FrozenIcicle (Friday at 2:43 PM)

Man I can’t keep up with this thread with all the tricks and tips with library. By the time I go to write I’ve forgotten haha. Someone needs to make a summary and pin to OP


----------



## I like music (Friday at 2:43 PM)

Snarf said:


> I'm pretty sure it's the same dozen or so people, not that many.





Baronvonheadless said:


> True true, I just remember that not even being too big a topic before hand. Everyone was drooling over the other patches. Which are what make this library shine.


It is an interesting one. I'm one of the people constantly worrying about the legato. I think possibly because most people (who are being picky with the legato) have accepted that the rest of it sounds pretty damn good, and we're hoping that this part also fits the bill for us, because then it would be - possibly - the best library for us (until a new one comes out in like 3 weeks lol) which is why we're hyper-focusing on it.

I said to another member here that I'm tempted to buy it just for the sustains/shorts. I might even be able to get around my legato-portamento concerns by layering it with CSS and doing some tweaking there. 

The good thing is that PS have given a very generous time limit for the loyalty discounts, so not many of us will be buying it and then regretting it because we felt pressured into with salesday tactics.


----------



## I like music (Friday at 2:44 PM)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Man I can’t keep up with this thread with all the tricks and tips with library. By the time I go to write I’ve forgotten haha. Someone needs to make a summary and pin to OP


Was about to write the same thing. I've bookmarked about 5 different posts already and I haven't even bought it yet lol


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## FrozenIcicle (Friday at 2:46 PM)

I like music said:


> Was about to write the same thing. I've bookmarked about 5 different posts already and I haven't even bought it yet lol


Haha yep Im loving the library atm, but I recently ran into the rollercoaster portamento issue and I was like “what did johnsmith say on page 21 about what to do??”


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## HarmonKard (Friday at 2:47 PM)

I tried the other thread, but didnt get a response, so I was hoping someone can explain this to me here.

Can someone tell me what this is about?



I am used to seeing multiple "takes" for one zone, but what is this? As far as I can tell, only the first is accessed. Ideas?


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## MelodicAdagio (Friday at 3:04 PM)

AlexSonicsMusic said:


> I updated the video to include the normal Legato articulation and a more intense whisper sustain version. You were right, I was so enamoured of the whisper sustains that I ended up with an extremely restrained version
> Here's the midi:



Great job. One of my all time favorite symphony movements. But then I'm a huge Tchaikovsky fan anyway.


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## Vik (Friday at 3:19 PM)

gst98 said:


> Con moto is far more similar,


I made a comparison today, actually, and I think Vista is much closer to Pacific than Con Moto.

Apart from being a library with lots of other stuff than legato, I think the best thing about Pacific is the stuff some of us are afraid of getting too much of: the 'semi-portamento' transitions. When listening closely to recorded orchestras, there are actually a lot of them. The levels of the semi-portamentos are gradually lower with lower CC values, so I'm sure this will work out either by learning it better or with some updates, but of course: nothing beat real orchestras. 

But of course, it isn't a library that's perfect for all situations. The lack of vibrato control may be it's main limitation – since soime of us would want more vibrato in the low dynamics (since so few libraries offer that), while other would want less. For that reason, and after some time with Pacific, I know that I still need one more library. The other thing I wonder about with Pacific strings is if it's as flexible as the best other libaries in terms of being able to play soft without sounding – or if they'll feel faded down. 

The intro price will last for three more months, and many topics may pop up. Maybe we should have a separate thread for this, and let this thread remain a user demo thread?


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## Vik (Friday at 3:22 PM)

HarmonKard said:


> I tried the other thread, but didnt get a response, so I was hoping someone can explain this to me here.
> 
> Can someone tell me what this is about?
> 
> ...


I'm very curious about that as well. Based on hearing alone, it seems that Pacific only have two layers here and there, but I'm not even a Kontakt amateur, so I'm not sure how I can find the needed details.


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## gst98 (Friday at 3:34 PM)

I like music said:


> It is an interesting one. I'm one of the people constantly worrying about the legato. I think possibly because most people (who are being picky with the legato) have accepted that the rest of it sounds pretty damn good, and we're hoping that this part also fits the bill for us, because then it would be - possibly - the best library for us (until a new one comes out in like 3 weeks lol) which is why we're hyper-focusing on it.
> 
> I said to another member here that I'm tempted to buy it just for the sustains/shorts. I might even be able to get around my legato-portamento concerns by layering it with CSS and doing some tweaking there.
> 
> The good thing is that PS have given a very generous time limit for the loyalty discounts, so not many of us will be buying it and then regretting it because we felt pressured into with salesday tactics.


The 'portamento' really is just the ff espressivo layer though. I think it's worth remembering that when playing in that top dynamic. It gets slightly masked by the large hall homogenous sound, but its ark 1 kind of loud there. No normal melodic playing happens here ordinarily - JW rarely goes there, only at the climax of his most expressive suites - and when he does, this legato nails this style of playing. The 3 other dynamics have legato very similar to CSS in terms of amount of slur. Would be nice in an update if we could eat into the slur a bit like CSS does at high velocities.

Speaking of ark 1, playing some of the top dynamic of the celli+cb trems, trills and marcatos is like turning ark 1 from 10 to 11. And yet the bottom dyn of trems and trills are tundra-like. And then there are the 5 dynamics of flautando/whispers... I'm starting to sound fanboy-ish but I can't believe that there is a single library that gives you the range of the whole albion/ark series in one unified room/library. And you don't even have to deal with the sloppy albion/ark programming! 



HarmonKard said:


> I tried the other thread, but didnt get a response, so I was hoping someone can explain this to me here.
> 
> Can someone tell me what this is about?
> 
> ...


JB does a lot of extra recording so he can do selections of the best takes, so I'd assume it was that most likely. 



Vik said:


> I'm very curious about that as well. Based on hearing alone, it seems that Pacific only have two layers here and there, but I'm not even a Kontakt amateur, so I'm not sure how I can find the needed details.


It's 5. They're all listed on the website if you want them all.


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## Vik (Friday at 3:47 PM)

gst98 said:


> The 'portamento' really is just the ff espressivo layer though.


Please explain? Are you saying that one shouldn't use the separate ff patch with the regular instruments, because these samples are in there already? Why are they there then, and why are there no warning against using them on top of the regular Violins, Violas etc?



gst98 said:


> It's 5. They're all listed on the website if you want them all.


Others have looked and claim it's 4. But what if these are not unique samples?


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## I like music (Friday at 3:47 PM)

gst98 said:


> The 'portamento' really is just the ff espressivo layer though. I think it's worth remembering that when playing in that top dynamic. It gets slightly masked by the large hall homogenous sound, but its ark 1 kind of loud there. No normal melodic playing happens here ordinarily - JW rarely goes there, only at the climax of his most expressive suites - and when he does, this legato nails this style of playing. The 3 other dynamics have legato very similar to CSS in terms of amount of slur. Would be nice in an update if we could eat into the slur a bit like CSS does at high velocities.
> 
> Speaking of ark 1, playing some of the top dynamic of the celli+cb trems, trills and marcatos is like turning ark 1 from 10 to 11. And yet the bottom dyn of trems and trills are tundra-like. And then there are the 5 dynamics of flautando/whispers... I'm starting to sound fanboy-ish but I can't believe that there is a single library that gives you the range of the whole albion/ark series in one unified room/library. And you don't even have to deal with the sloppy albion/ark programming!
> 
> ...


Thank you for the detail. Just edged me closer to buying. Will see how long I can hold out before I eventually cave.


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## Baronvonheadless (Friday at 3:49 PM)

MelodicAdagio said:


> Great job. One of my all time favorite symphony movements. But then I'm a huge Tchaikovsky fan anyway.


I’m bitter someone beat me to it. (It is a great job) I’ve been talking about doing it for months leading up to this release and then the day after I buy pacific I get sick and find I have a hole in my lung. So just been resting and not working in my studio at all. 🙃🤷🏻‍♂️ At least it’s getting better.

This symphony is my favorite of his by far. I probably listen to it twice a week. 

As well as the classic swan lake suite. Perhaps the best thing he wrote.


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## gst98 (Friday at 4:21 PM)

Vik said:


> Please explain? Are you saying that one shouldn't use the separate ff patch with the regular instruments, because these samples are in there already? Why are they there then, and why are there no warning against using them on top of the regular Violins, Violas etc?
> 
> 
> Others have looked and claim it's 4. But what if these are not unique samples?


No, I am talking about the 4th (loudest) dynamic of the legatos on every instrument. It is played at ff and has a more expressive legato transition type. The 3 violin fff overlay is something else entirely, with an even more slurred legato type when needed.



Vik said:


> Others have looked and claim it's 4. But what if these are not unique samples?


That is legato, which 4 layers on vln, vla cli, 5 on basses. As to if they are faked, then unless you have evidence I wouldn't worry about them not being legitimate. Crossfading through faked layers would likely phase anyway and it would be obvious. Patches with fake layers are usually easy to spot.

In fact, just looking I think JB forgot that he actually recorded 6 whisper dynamics on the violins!


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## novaburst (Friday at 4:32 PM)

jbuhler said:


> So I explored this, tried moving the velocity up and down, even tried randomizing it, and I get no difference in behavior on the legato.


Yes your correct i stand corrected, 

Mind playing tricks on me


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## artinro (Friday at 6:34 PM)

Vik said:


> Others have looked and claim it's 4. But what if these are not unique samples?


Hey folks, let me nip this one in the bud….they are unique samples. No faking going on here.


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## Jett Hitt (Friday at 8:18 PM)

Vista has generally been considered to be a no-brainer on this forum by many, especially if you picked it up on a sale. So most of us have the loyalty discount. If not, you can get it by paying $69 for Con Moto basses, bring your total for Pacific to $318. If that's too much for this sound, let me tell you about a super deal on the Garritan Personal Orchestra. . . .


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## Casiquire (Friday at 8:18 PM)

artinro said:


> Hey folks, let me nip this one in the bud….they are unique samples. No faking going on here.


I don't believe it's 5 layers of legato dynamics though--but I'm not sure the actual number.


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## artinro (Friday at 8:27 PM)

Casiquire said:


> I don't believe it's 5 layers of legato dynamics though--but I'm not sure the actual number.


The legato layers for each patch match the sustain layers.


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## Sovereign (Saturday at 2:37 AM)

artinro said:


> The legato layers for each patch match the sustain layers.


Yes, four, except the basses. This to me remains a strange issue since the website says up to five for the sustains. And with the emphasis for all the other stuff in the library on dynamics this feels a bit disappointing.


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## Sovereign (Saturday at 2:40 AM)

gst98 said:


> That is legato, which 4 layers on vln, vla cli, 5 on basses. As to if they are faked, then unless you have evidence I wouldn't worry about them not being legitimate. Crossfading through faked layers would likely phase anyway and it would be obvious. Patches with fake layers are usually easy to spot.


The waveforms are clearly different for each layer, nothing illegitimate there.


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## Casiquire (Saturday at 4:25 AM)

artinro said:


> The legato layers for each patch match the sustain layers.


Right, that's only 4 I believe


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## Snarf (Saturday at 4:30 AM)

Casiquire said:


> Right, that's only 4 I believe


So it adds up: 4 legato layers for 4 dynamic layers of sustain. 5/5 for basses.


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## Casiquire (Saturday at 4:37 AM)

Snarf said:


> So it adds up: 4 legato layers for 4 dynamic layers of sustain. 5/5 for basses.


Correct. I'm just pointing out that there aren't five layers overall.


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## novaburst (Saturday at 8:07 AM)

I think there is a disconnect between the marketing adds and the developers, i am sure i read 8 to 9 dynamic layers,

The library is a gem!!!!! for real but i wish the marketing would get it right


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## Evans (Saturday at 8:17 AM)

novaburst said:


> I think there is a disconnect between the marketing adds and the developers, i am sure i read 8 to 9 dynamic layers,
> 
> The library is a gem!!!!! for real but i wish the marketing would get it right


What have you found that specifically conflicts with the product description? The "up to" part is frequently used by devs and a bit annoying, but this is otherwise fairly specific.





Pacific – Ensemble Strings – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


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## gst98 (Saturday at 8:36 AM)

novaburst said:


> I think there is a disconnect between the marketing adds and the developers, i am sure i read 8 to 9 dynamic layers,
> 
> The library is a gem!!!!! for real but i wish the marketing would get it right


What marketing? its a one man operation who doesn’t advertise, only demonstrates previews and progress videos in the most transparent way I’ve seen any developer. There is even a tab that must be several thousand words long, listing all the limitations, where he seems to be doing his best to persuade you not to buy it! There up to 14 dynamics on the spiccatos if that’s what you meant.


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## novaburst (Saturday at 8:59 AM)

Evans said:


> What have you found that specifically conflicts with the product description? The "up to" part is frequently used by devs and a bit annoying, but this is otherwise fairly specific.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





gst98 said:


> What marketing? its a one man operation who doesn’t advertise, only demonstrates previews and progress videos in the most transparent way I’ve seen any developer. There is even a tab that must be several thousand words long, listing all the limitations, where he seems to be doing his best to persuade you not to buy it! There up to 14 dynamics on the spiccatos if that’s what you meant.


I went back and read the articulations on the PS page, 
Some times you read but not in detail as the library was promoted some time back and all details would not have been fresh,


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## Ricgus3 (Saturday at 11:14 AM)

Wasn’t there a lot of talk about it being 10 dynamic layers on the sustain?


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## ibanez1 (Saturday at 11:20 AM)

I feel like this thread is about to turn into the Modern Scoring Strings Legato Spoof thread discussion except with dynamic layers as the point of controversy . My opinion is I don't care how many dynamic layers there are as long as it sounds good.


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## jbuhler (Saturday at 11:30 AM)

Ricgus3 said:


> Wasn’t there a lot of talk about it being 10 dynamic layers on the sustain?


I thought it was nine layers on the Sordinos or something. I think the whisper sustains also have a lot of layers (6?) for the dynamic range they cover. Also the Trems seem to have a lot of layers (8?). Assuming I'm parsing the group editor properly.


----------



## soulofsound (Saturday at 11:55 AM)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Question on the topic of Blakus's EQ and treatment of Pacific, I am happy with the library as is but always down to experiment.
> I don't have cinematic rooms so I'm using 7th heaven scoring stage (I'm usually a fan of that or boston hall).
> 
> Regarding EQ - I don't have fabfilter so I'm using logic's stock EQ which is fine.
> ...


I think Seventh Heaven and Reverberate are better than Cinematic Rooms, at least more diverse. 
The PA Townhouse Compressor is the best one for glue on a mix, i think. 
For limiting i use the stock Logic Adaptive Limiter. I only put it on at mixdown since it induces latency like most effective limiters do.


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## Casiquire (Saturday at 12:22 PM)

gst98 said:


> What marketing? its a one man operation who doesn’t advertise, only demonstrates previews and progress videos in the most transparent way I’ve seen any developer. There is even a tab that must be several thousand words long, listing all the limitations, where he seems to be doing his best to persuade you not to buy it! There up to 14 dynamics on the spiccatos if that’s what you meant.


Where do we get the impression he doesn't advertise? I've seen a bunch of ads right here, and I've even seen ads for Pacific on Facebook. It stands to reason that means he likely advertises on plenty of music forums and social media. It may be a one man operation, but it's still a business and transparent as it may seem, marketing is marketing. His videos still show his libraries in their best light even if that's not his conscious intention.


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## gst98 (Saturday at 12:34 PM)

Casiquire said:


> Where do we get the impression he doesn't advertise? I've seen a bunch of ads right here, and I've even seen ads for Pacific on Facebook. It stands to reason that means he likely advertises on plenty of music forums and social media. It may be a one man operation, but it's still a business and transparent as it may seem, marketing is marketing. His videos still show his libraries in their best light even if that's not his conscious intention.


I’ve never seen any of his ads here, so I stand corrected then. But he doesn’t market in the tier one commercial release forum with vapid promises and blank teasers weeks before release. I suppose that’s what I think of when I hear ‘marketing’.

Though I would disagree with showing libraries in the best light. The first thing we hear usually are exposed alpha demos. He hasn’t even made official walkthroughs yet. His Speedwriting demos are very different to the polished tracks other devs release.


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## Casiquire (Saturday at 12:40 PM)

gst98 said:


> I’ve never seen any of his ads here, so I stand corrected then. But he doesn’t market in the tier one commercial release forum with vapid promises and blank teasers weeks before release. I suppose that’s what I think of when I hear ‘marketing’.
> 
> Though I would disagree with showing libraries in the best light. The first thing we hear usually are exposed alpha demos. He hasn’t even made official walkthroughs yet. His Speedwriting demos are very different to the polished tracks other devs release.


The only reason I say that is my experience with Vista. I really didn't remember hearing bumpy legatos in any of the demos, but I can barely get a full phrase out without encountering one. My writing style is just different from his so it responds in a different way. Jasper is designing libraries around his own style of writing and playing; therefore his demos and noodles demonstrate the libraries in the best light, if that makes sense. My impression is, of course, that he DOESN'T do this intentionally or dishonestly.


----------



## novaburst (Saturday at 12:42 PM)

Ricgus3 said:


> Wasn’t there a lot of talk about it being 10 dynamic layers on the sustain?


There are a tone of dynamic layers spread through out the articulations, it does make the library a box of treasures,

there are quite a few things you can do with this library, but i think you need to make it your own
and not be moved about users impression about the library


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## tabulius (Saturday at 12:56 PM)

I arranged this short Dragon Age theme for testing purposes and for balancing my template. The Pacific really blends well with Vista and Performance Samples freebie solo violin and cello. I love it!

Full orchestra :

View attachment TS Dragon Age Demo.mp3


Strings only:

View attachment TS Dragon Age Strings Demo.mp3


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## novaburst (Saturday at 1:00 PM)

The developer does make a point in detailing, where most of the dynamic layers are in terms of articulations. 

Sordino Sustains (no legato) – up to 11 dynamics
I think we do read a bit fast or not absorb the details


----------



## Snarf (Saturday at 1:02 PM)

ibanez1 said:


> I feel like this thread is about to turn into the Modern Scoring Strings Legato Spoof thread discussion except with dynamic layers as the point of controversy . My opinion is I don't care how many dynamic layers there are as long as it sounds good.


Except the number of dynamic layers per patch are clearly labeled on the product page and can be checked in Kontakt.

From the Pacific product description:


Legato (monophonic) Sustains with Same-Note Repetitions – up to 5 dynamics (on both sustains and intervals, matching)
Sordino Sustains (no legato) – up to 11 dynamics
Whisper Sustains (not on basses) – up to 5 dynamics
Trills (not on basses) – up to 8 dynamics
Tremolos – up to 9 dynamics
Spiccatos – up to 14 dynamics
Pizzicatos – up to 9 dynamics
Marcatos – up to 5 dynamics


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## FrozenIcicle (Saturday at 1:09 PM)

Snarf said:


> Except the number of dynamic layers per patch are clearly labeled on the product page and can be checked in Kontakt.
> 
> From the Pacific product description:
> 
> ...


Wish the tremolos were tempo synced


----------



## ibanez1 (Saturday at 1:11 PM)

Snarf said:


> Except the number of dynamic layers per patch are clearly labeled on the product page and can be checked in Kontakt.
> 
> From the Pacific product description:
> 
> ...


I understand that. My point was more if I found that for example the Sordino Sustains had only 10 dynamics instead of the 11 that were state on the website, I don't think I would care. I was just commenting on the fact that the discussion about what people's detective work in kontakt is finding vs. what is on the website sounds a lot like the conditions that prompted the frustration on the MSS legato thread


----------



## Soundbed (Saturday at 1:58 PM)

gst98 said:


> The 'portamento' really is just the ff espressivo layer though.


Disagree. The position shift "slide" transition appears even at 25% of the mod wheel and gradually gets introduced more and more as you move the slider up. But, the "slide" is clearly present and easily audible even at 25%. I have tested this extensively across many instruments, pitch ranges and intervals.

I can make another, different demonstration (different from my previous video demonstration, focusing on, say, the cellos, and at more reasonable, musical timing changes) if someone wants to see it again.



When the mod wheel is at the bottom, there is a more distinct volume dip or "gap" between the notes, slightly more detaché (not exactly fingered) but even at 25% - 30% of the mod wheel you can hear the position shift "slide" come in. Sometimes it's more of a slide up (as in this interval) and other times it's more of a slide down. But it gets introduced early in the mod wheel, by design.


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## AlexSonicsMusic (Saturday at 2:04 PM)

tabulius said:


> I arranged this short Dragon Age theme for testing purposes and for balancing my template. The Pacific really blends well with Vista and Performance Samples freebie solo violin and cello. I love it!
> 
> Full orchestra :
> 
> ...


Fabulous. I'm doing the very same thing, layering Vista and pacific. This has replaced Berlin and Berlin symphonic strings for me mostly. Lovely programming and balance, too so your template will be ace


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## AlexSonicsMusic (Saturday at 2:09 PM)

Because people are so concerned about the portamento I put it to the test. I frequently write agile dovetailing lines for my string players and most libraries have failed to render this in a realistic way. 

I think pacific does really well here, even though I had to use some workarounds to avoid excessive portamento: avoiding the top dynamic layer and sometimes removing overlap worked for me. 

For me, pacific will still replace my other libraries for most things because it does not cost me much to work around the particularities -


I provided a short tutti excerpt 
then soloed pacific, Vista, Berlin and BSS respectively

fyi - There is a real cello mixed in the tutti part


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## gst98 (Saturday at 2:16 PM)

Soundbed said:


> Disagree. The position shift "slide" transition appears even at 25% of the mod wheel and gradually gets introduced more and more as you move the slider up. But, the "slide" is clearly present and easily audible even at 25%. I have tested this extensively across many instruments, pitch ranges and intervals.
> 
> I can make another, different demonstration (different from my previous video demonstration, focusing on, say, the cellos, and at more reasonable, musical timing changes) if someone wants to see it again.
> 
> ...



If you look at the programming you can see the 4th dynamic only starts appearing at 60% cc - much higher than 25%. And at that point, it won't be particularly audible, really only noticeable at 75-80%.


----------



## Soundbed (Saturday at 2:17 PM)

gst98 said:


> If you look at the programming you can see the 4th dynamic only starts appearing at 60% cc - much higher than 25%. And at that point, it won't be particularly audible, really only noticeable at 75-80%.


I am saying the 4th dynamic is not where the "port" sound (more of a position shift / slur) gets introduced. Did you watch my video?


----------



## gst98 (Saturday at 2:20 PM)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Wish the tremolos were tempo synced


These are unmeasured trems though. Have you tried reproducing it with spiccato? They are performance sourced and so work very well for meas trem parts, similar to CSS.


----------



## gst98 (Saturday at 2:34 PM)

Soundbed said:


> I am saying the 4th dynamic is not where the "port" sound (more of a position shift / slur) gets introduced. Did you watch my video?


No, but it’s a slurred legato? It’s a moderate slur in the lower 3 dynamics, very much in line with CSS.


----------



## Soundbed (Saturday at 2:36 PM)

I am beginning to see what others were saying about the first notes in a phrase sounding "late".

EDIT— @gst98 has a great response in this post. 

If you don't mind having the midi of the first note in a phrase moved early (including playing the first note quite early, then the rest of the notes "less early") then it's not an issue for you.

(Reminds me of the first note of a CSS phrase needing velocity at 0.)

But if you present midi that assumes the first note in a phrase note will "sound" at the same relative time as the rest of the transitions in the phrase (as I do) then the first note will sound "late".

Here is an example with TSS playing the melody, Pacific playing the arpeggios.

You can hear TSS is playing the midi: the first note of each phrase sounds more "on time" (although the tone is quite different, and in the 2nd phrase it even sounds early):
View attachment tss no swing.mp3


And here is Pacific playing the same midi. The first note of each phrase sounds "late" almost like it was "swung". The 2nd phrase, where TSS sounded early, sounds almost "on time". The 3rd and 4th phrases sound very swung or "late," but only the 1st notes of each phrase.
View attachment pacific swing.mp3


Note, the melody for these was not quantized ... this isn't about quantization or not quantization. It's about the 1st note in a phrase sounding "on time" versus sounding "late" and it would be something that you'd want to factor into your programming (consciously or, if you can adapt in your brain and simply play the first notes a little earlier than the other notes unconsciously, then good on you).

Also, *I'm not saying it's inherently good or bad*; only something to notice and describe without judging it too quickly. I'd prefer it behaved more like TSS in this respect, but ... hey, every library is different. The tone is quite different from TSS.

~



AlexSonicsMusic said:


> I think pacific does really well here, even though I had to use some workarounds to avoid excessive portamento: avoiding the top dynamic layer and *sometimes removing overlap worked for me.*


Exactly right: what people are calling the "port" sound can be easily avoided by not making the notes overlap. (!)

As long as it's in the same "phrase" — meaning, some number of ms have not yet passed (not sure how many, but likely around the length of a release sample, I'm guessing) _then_ the new note can still sound "on time" but more (what I'm calling) detaché (for lack of a better word to represent how it's sounding).


----------



## Soundbed (Saturday at 2:39 PM)

gst98 said:


> No, but it’s a slurred legato? It’s a moderate slur in the lower 3 dynamics, very much in line with CSS.


Ok, so we are almost in agreement, thank you for the clarification. It's a good one.

Can we agree:

Lowest dynamic: basically no slurs.
Middle two dynamics: slurred legato gets introduced, but really isn't a "port" yet...
4th (top) legato dynamic: quite slurred, which is the "port" sound some people want the option to avoid.

And it CAN be avoided, by not making the notes overlap. (Right?)

Everyone's happy.


----------



## FrozenIcicle (Saturday at 2:49 PM)

gst98 said:


> These are unmeasured trems though. Have you tried reproducing it with spiccato? They are performance sourced and so work very well for meas trem parts, similar to CSS.


Does that mean I can grab the phrase under the wrench, bounce the audio and time stretch it? Or are you just suggesting to play the spic 16th notes as is?


----------



## method1 (Saturday at 3:16 PM)

Soundbed said:


> I am beginning to see what others were saying about the first notes in a phrase sounding "late".
> 
> If you don't mind having the midi of the first note in a phrase moved early (including playing the first note quite early, then the rest of the notes "less early") then it's not an issue for you.
> 
> ...


Have to be honest, this would drive me up the wall!

Love the sound in general but not sure I'm up for dealing with the quirks, including if some of the odd noises I've heard in some of the demos. Thanks for your posts, they've been very informative!


----------



## Cheezus (Saturday at 3:33 PM)

When I was looking at the transition samples in the mapping editor, my impression was that all of the layers have some “extra slurry” transitions scattered around depending on the interval, but dynamic 2 had the fewest.

Even lowest dynamic seemed to have a decent amount, but 2nd dynamic was mostly normal slur transitions.


----------



## Kony (Saturday at 3:44 PM)

Pacific is actually advertised as having slurred legatos - from the Pacific articulations page:


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## NoamL (Saturday at 4:08 PM)

How are folks getting along with the decay release knob? After some experimenting I found *2.2s* to be the most satisfying setting; that's now applied on every articulation in my template, even the legato sustains. But I like a more dry scoring stage sound. It's great to have options.


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## jbuhler (Saturday at 4:11 PM)

Soundbed said:


> And it CAN be avoided, by not making the notes overlap. (Right?)


Except if the notes don't overlap, you aren't really getting legato, right?


----------



## gst98 (Saturday at 4:17 PM)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Does that mean I can grab the phrase under the wrench, bounce the audio and time stretch it? Or are you just suggesting to play the spic 16th notes as is?


No time stretching needed. But play 16th or 32nd notes with the spics. Dip the velocity of every other note down a slight bit too. This is what CSS meas trem does. 

@Soundbed Are you talking about equal quantizing of all aspects of the legato? The attack of the legato is set to the same -180ms delay of the transition. Meaning the first note set to the grid will play perfectly in time, no? 

Isn't this what people have always complained about with CSS? and why a 3rd party script exists to compensate? It's a little strange at first to play in, but programming-wise it makes it very simple because everything can be stuck to the grid.


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## NoamL (Saturday at 4:25 PM)

Here's a comparison.

Cellos and Basses, marcato, with the release tuned to 2.2k ms

View attachment Low Str 22k release.mp3


With the full release - a lot of room buildup! -

View attachment Low Str No release.mp3


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## Soundbed (Saturday at 4:25 PM)

jbuhler said:


> Except if the notes don't overlap, you aren't really getting legato, right?


The way it sounds to me is still fairly connected, but no slur. And not as obvious as a bow change.



gst98 said:


> @Soundbed Are you talking about equal quantizing of all aspects of the legato? The attack of the legato is set to the same -180ms delay of the transition. Meaning the first note set to the grid will play perfectly in time, no?
> 
> Isn't this what people have always complained about with CSS? and why a 3rd party script exists to compensate? It's a little strange at first to play in, but programming-wise it makes it very simple because everything can be stuck to the grid.


No, as I said, the part does not need to be quantized.

No, the attack of the first note does not play at the same negative predelay (-180 ms) as the rest of the transitions in a connected phrase, as shown in my audio examples.

No, if you stick everything to the grid the first note also wouldn’t sound on time. The rest of the transitions do sound on time. 

With CSS my recollection is you want to change the velocity of the first note, not the timing (but I could be mistaken bc it’s been a while since I’ve touched CSS).


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## Soundbed (Saturday at 4:28 PM)

NoamL said:


> Here's a comparison.
> 
> Cellos and Basses, marcato, with the release tuned to 2.2k ms
> 
> ...


I think Blakus mentioned this too, … erm… which may be exactly what you’re intentionally demonstrating!
🤣


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## Vik (Saturday at 4:28 PM)

Soundbed said:


> what people are calling the "port" sound can be easily avoided by not making the notes overlap. (!)


Sure, but then there's no legato either – they are now sustain notes, meaning that without editing you can risk a gap or some releases bleeding into the next note.


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## Soundbed (Saturday at 4:29 PM)

Vik said:


> Sure, but then there's no legato either – they are now sustain notes, meaning that without editing you can risk a gap or some releases bleeding into the next note.


Ok, not everyone is happy.


----------



## NoamL (Saturday at 4:33 PM)

Cheezus said:


> When I was looking at the transition samples in the mapping editor, my impression was that all of the layers have some “extra slurry” transitions scattered around depending on the interval, but dynamic 2 had the fewest.
> 
> Even lowest dynamic seemed to have a decent amount, but 2nd dynamic was mostly normal slur transitions.


The 3rd (interval) transitions in the cello are a good litmus test for this. Listen to the min3 and maj3 transitions up/down on notes played on the G string. Right now what @Soundbed is saying, I can back up 100%, the portamento transitions happen around 40% on the modwheel and they also affect almost every m3 and M3 transition on the cello.

I understand that VIs and real instruments are apples and oranges but IMO this is a case where the dynamic level is irrelevant. No matter how loud the cellos are asked to play, they aren't going to shift hand position on every note. Especially not on notes that are reachable in basic first position on the lower strings. Nearly all of those transitions should be hammer on / pull off, very quick. Not the sound of the entire hand position sliding up or down the string.




Soundbed said:


> I think Blakus mentioned this too, … erm… which may be exactly what you’re intentionally demonstrating!
> 🤣


Yes there's quite a few features of this library that are left for the user to set as desired. As Blakus also mentioned the close mics are not panned out of the box. It's not a flaw of the library really, just something to be aware of & adapt to your taste during setup.


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## Vik (Saturday at 4:33 PM)

Soundbed said:


> Ok, not everyone is happy.


Well, it's a workaround, just like assigning the legato on/off button to a eg. a pedal, which also would remove the portamentos.


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## gst98 (Saturday at 4:34 PM)

Soundbed said:


> The way it sounds to me is still fairly connected, but no slur. And not as obvious as a bow change.
> 
> 
> No, as I said, the part does not need to be quantized.
> ...


Are you sure? that's how it was written up in the technical notes, and my note starts are syncing perfectly at -180 delay.



Soundbed said:


> Ok, not everyone is happy.


Can't please everyone! I actually find it's better to disable transitions and then mess with the overlap. He gave KS for leg on/off as well as a release control to do this conveniently. I'm finding you can achieve fluid legato playing without the transition when you don't want slurs personally. If not there's always con moto


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## ScarletJerry (Saturday at 4:39 PM)

Well, it took 42 pages of demos and discourse, but I finally decided to jump into the pool (or maybe more appropriately, the ocean?). Pacific is now downloading on my computer, and I'm hoping to contribute to the conversation going forward. Thanks to everyone, especially the commenters who responded to my question about Vista and Pacific having the same tone a few pages back. I'm about to see if that's the case for me, but I'm looking forward to adding this tool to my arsenal and learning about its quirks and strengths.

Scarlet Jerry


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## NoamL (Saturday at 4:42 PM)

I'd love a rework of this library that limits the portamento transitions to only happen when *ALL *of the following conditions apply:

1. the dynamic is fortissimo,
2. the lowest-pitched note of the transition is higher than the top string,
3. and the interval is a P4 or wider

Spitfire Appassionata, if you notice, follows similar rules! 

edit: I put a better explanation later in the thread...


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## Soundbed (Saturday at 4:43 PM)

gst98 said:


> my note starts are syncing perfectly at -180 delay.


Interesting. I provided audio examples. I have spend more than an hour comparing Pacific note starts vs transitions to a piano then to TSS before I posted. The notes starts do not correspond to the note transitions in terms of timing. Again it’s not about quantization. It’s about relative timing of when the note “speaks”. I trust you are experiencing something different, so it’s maybe inconsistent and/or the difference is in the details (of our exact use cases, like sections/ranges, etc.)


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## Soundbed (Saturday at 4:48 PM)

gst98 said:


> I'm finding you can achieve fluid legato playing without the transition when you don't want slurs personally.


Me too, but two others are saying it’s “not legato” … I find it, let’s say, the least of my worries (personally).


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## FrozenIcicle (Saturday at 4:57 PM)

gst98 said:


> No time stretching needed. But play 16th or 32nd notes with the spics. Dip the velocity of every other note down a slight bit too. This is what CSS meas trem does.
> 
> @Soundbed Are you talking about equal quantizing of all aspects of the legato? The attack of the legato is set to the same -180ms delay of the transition. Meaning the first note set to the grid will play perfectly in time, no?
> 
> Isn't this what people have always complained about with CSS? and why a 3rd party script exists to compensate? It's a little strange at first to play in, but programming-wise it makes it very simple because everything can be stuck to the grid.


damn I wanted a phrase but I guess it is technically a phrase if I can join the right round robins together


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## gst98 (Saturday at 4:59 PM)

NoamL said:


> I'd love a rework of this library that limits the portamento transitions to only happen when *ALL *of the following conditions apply:
> 
> 1. the dynamic is fortissimo
> 2. the lowest-pitched note of the transition is higher than the instrument's top string
> ...


I don't know how that would happen unless there were re-record sessions, which I think is fairly unlikely. 

I think a good solution would be (upon midi velocities above 100, say) eat into the legato transition to shorten the transition.

Borrowing the lower legato dynamic from below is another option - but runs quite opposite to his usual 'purist' approach. 

I agree though that I like how SF App economised on session time and only recorded ports for intervals and registers that really need it. It's a nice compromise,


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## gst98 (Saturday at 5:02 PM)

Soundbed said:


> Interesting. I provided audio examples. I have spend more than an hour comparing Pacific note starts vs transitions to a piano then to TSS before I posted. The notes starts do not correspond to the note transitions in terms of timing. Again it’s not about quantization. It’s about relative timing of when the note “speaks”. I trust you are experiencing something different, so it’s maybe inconsistent and/or the difference is in the details (of our exact use cases, like sections/ranges, etc.)


I did listen. By speak, I suppose they are not heavily attacked notes, more natural I'd say. But I'm very much used to most of my legato patches having to adjust the start notes of phrases, with pacific everything stuck on the grid is sounding good to me.


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## Soundbed (Saturday at 5:14 PM)

gst98 said:


> I'm very much used to most of my legato patches having to adjust the start notes of phrases


Ok. I’ve gotten “spoiled” by MSS and now TSS, I guess. I’ve started to expect the notes to not need adjusting and simply sound “on time” whenever the midi note on event happens. 



gst98 said:


> with pacific everything stuck on the grid is sounding good to me


We are having different user experiences, I guess. I will explore some more ranges and instruments. I’ve mostly been playing with violins in octaves. 



gst98 said:


> I suppose they are not heavily attacked notes, more natural I'd say


I know what you’re saying, they are gradual approaches (“bloom” or whatever) but they need to start earlier to sound on time imho. Appreciate your perspective. I’ll look into it more ….


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## NoamL (Saturday at 5:23 PM)

I decided to go a little nuts, because how much of this is pure Greek to people who don't play string instruments? 

have a gander at this chart:






1. *STRINGS:* Each line here represents one of the cello's four strings (C, G, D, A).

2. *LOW & HIGH* The cellist can put their left hand (the one that holds down the notes) either in "low" or "high" position. There are other positions but I'm simplifying this. In each position, you can play all the notes shown in that column (on all 4 strings).

For now, just look at Low position.

4. *SAME STRING* A transition between any two Low notes that are on the same string is achieved by hammering down a finger or pulling it off the string. This is the FASTEST transition - the notes sound more connected than two piano notes, but there is no sliding sound at all!  It's exactly like a guitar hammer on / pull off, btw, except the cello is fretless.






5. *STRING CROSSING* A transition between any Low note and any other Low note on the next string up or down is achieved by moving the bow from one string to its neighbor. The cellist practices a lot to make these transitions as invisible as possible: it is FAST and does not come with any sliding sound at all, because the left hand doesn't move. No portamentos 






6. *THREE REASONS FOR HIGH POSITION* As you can see, the cello can play an entire chromatic scale in Low position, which leads to the question of why we need High position at all? There are 3 reasons.

First, we need high position to access notes higher than D# (and indeed, there are positions higher than the two I've illustrated, which are needed to access still-higher notes).

Second, in Low position the notes marked "O" are played with zero fingers on the string, hence "open string"; this means we can't do microtuning or vibrato on that note. In order to do it, we need to play that note in High position.

The last reason for High position is if there is a melody that just fits easier with that collection of notes. For example, here is the same melody played in Low then High position. You can see why the cellist will find High less awkward!






Because of this the cellist is often moving between Low & High as they navigate a piece of music. It is entirely up to the musician to decide this ("helpful suggestions" by the composer are routinely ignored unless they _really_ know what they're doing).


7. *PORTAMENTOS* - the sound of the hand shifting between High & Low in either direction can be nicely simulated with a portamento transition _or_ a longer legato transition (like the "Slow" transition in CSS). This is just about the only time that a portamento transition is appropriate unless you are doing some kinda Roma violin thing! 

The upshot of all of this? Less portamento is usually better.


----------



## Soundbed (Saturday at 5:27 PM)

NoamL said:


> I decided to go a little nuts, because how much of this is pure Greek to people who don't play string instruments?
> 
> have a gander at this chart:
> 
> ...


Thank you 🙏🏻 without reading I “know” this addresses a couple comments here and in videos I posted to this thread about when the up or down slurs might be most likely irl, and, potentially hints at some of the thoughts going through the players’ minds (maybe?) when recording this not for purists lib.


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## Soundbed (Saturday at 5:28 PM)

I also want @Mr Greg G to chime in


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## axb312 (Saturday at 6:14 PM)

NoamL said:


> I'd love a rework of this library that limits the portamento transitions to only happen when *ALL *of the following conditions apply:
> 
> 1. the dynamic is fortissimo,
> 2. the lowest-pitched note of the transition is higher than the top string,
> ...


Could be something worth talking to Jasper about.


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## ScarletJerry (Saturday at 8:03 PM)

Well, I just played with Pacific for about an hour, and I really like it! Here are my initial observations:

1. The legato issue is not as bad as I thought it would be. If you keep the mod wheel below 50%, it seems to keep the slippery legato in check.

2. The harp is MUCH cleaner and more melodic than the one that comes with Vista. The Vista harp is so dirty that it's pretty unusable for me, but the new Harp sounds much better.

3. The whisper sustains are nice, but the big suprise for me was the sordino patches. They really are gorgeous! I will definltely be using those. I also created some custom Sordino legato patches, and I think they sound pretty good, but I want to try them in a composition before declaring victory.

4. The only "negative surprise" was the noises that are in the samples. I heard at least once instance that sounded like someone was bumping into a chair, and some kind of other extraneous sound. I'm sure that these will be mostly inaudible in a full mix, but I wasn't expecting these artifacts, even if the samples are "not for purists."

The bottom line is that while waiting to buy this initially seemed like a good decision, I realize that I probably put too much credence into the legato critics discussion. If it was a $99 library, I would have just bought it, or if I didn't have other string libraries, that would have been an easy decision as well. I'm fortunate to have invested in other string libraries over the years, and that actually made the decision more difficult.

I like to compose warm, soundtrack style music, so the legato actually works for me, even at it's most pronounced level. I'm also looking forward to blending it with CSS and CS2 to see how that sounds. Overall, Pacific sounds a lot like a fuller version of Vista (as I suspected) but that's a good thing because I'm a big Vista fan.

I will post some of my experiments this week.

Scarlet Jerry


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## FrozenIcicle (Saturday at 11:20 PM)

NoamL said:


> I decided to go a little nuts, because how much of this is pure Greek to people who don't play string instruments?
> 
> have a gander at this chart:
> 
> ...


Love you work as normal at explaining stuff ty. But isn’t Jasper using portamento slides as more of a string ensemble realism sound that you get when none of the players will hit the note at the same time and it’s more blurred? Idk. Let’s see what the patch fixes


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## Raphioli (Sunday at 1:28 AM)

Ricgus3 said:


> Wasn’t there a lot of talk about it being 10 dynamic layers on the sustain?


I've been in Pacific threads a lot before release, but I've never seen a mention of 10 dynamic layers for normal sustains.
You're probably confused with sordino sustains.



gst98 said:


> I don't know how that would happen unless there were re-record sessions, which I think is fairly unlikely.
> 
> I think a good solution would be (upon midi velocities above 100, say) eat into the legato transition to shorten the transition.
> 
> ...


The conversation in this thread about slurred legatos reminded me about SF Appassionata Strings.
When that library came out, I remember some people were saying something along the lines of, not enough portamento. Then you have "too much portamento" here.
It shows that you really can't satisfy every single user.


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## Corda1983 (Sunday at 2:09 AM)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Love you work as normal at explaining stuff ty. But isn’t Jasper using portamento slides as more of a string ensemble realism sound that you get when none of the players will hit the note at the same time and it’s more blurred? Idk. Let’s see what the patch fixes



I think it’s a creative choice based on a couple of things:

I think the top dynamic is supposed to be reserved for quite rare moments of extreme intensity. We’ve sort of gotten used to riding the dynamics of sample libraries up in that top range a bit too much when composing for sample libraries. I think 60-70% intensity with Pacific is plenty for all but the most intense ff-fff passages, and even then you’d be hitting those very top dynamics only now and then, riding the dynamics to create lyrical movement.

Legato gets lost easily in dense arrangements, and arrangements are usually denser at that ff> range. The slightly exaggerated blur maybe doesn’t sound natural in isolation, but if you have it doubling horns, woodwinds, maybe trumpets, all playing f>, it suddenly brings to sound a lot more expressive.

I think most passages, even fairly prominent ones, should hang out in the 40-60% dynamics range, with the rare swell into the top 20-30%. And unlike many libraries where velocity and dynamics sort of control independent aspects of the performance, I think Pacific has simplified this so that the dynamics controller is really the only one that matters. This makes performance easier once you’re familiar with it, but I guess it’s sacrificed some nuance with legato transition choice.

Like most of Jasper’s libraries this one feels built to play and write quickly and retain a lot of the emotion and instinct of the performance. For those that like choice and to craft and refine their work, I get how it may not seem to offer the choices they’d like. But I think it’s pretty much all
there once you get a feel for the library and it’s great for capturing intensity and emotion quickly and honestly.


----------



## gst98 (Sunday at 2:27 AM)

Soundbed said:


> Ok. I’ve gotten “spoiled” by MSS and now TSS, I guess. I’ve started to expect the notes to not need adjusting and simply sound “on time” whenever the midi note on event happens.
> 
> 
> We are having different user experiences, I guess. I will explore some more ranges and instruments. I’ve mostly been playing with violins in octaves.
> ...


The attack is softer on the lowest dyn and gets progressively harder as you move to dyn 4. Therefore you can draw in your attack with cc1 borrowing from a higher dyn. Dyn 3 and 4 can actually play quasi-staccato and land on the beat for me. Of course, if you really want a marked attack then layer with marcato or spiccato, which is why I assume he didn't record accent attacks for the legato as Vista has. Would be nice to have on this too I suppose.

Obviously its not working this way for you, but to be fair, MSS and TSS are the only lbs that also have this feature. I'm very much used to adjusting the phrase start note on every other legato patch out there. 



Raphioli said:


> The conversation in this thread about slurred legatos reminded me about SF Appassionata Strings.
> When that library came out, I remember some people were saying something along the lines of, not enough portamento. Then you have "too much portamento" here.
> It shows that you really can't satisfy every single user.


True, we all have our preferences. It's not that I don't agree that it's a bit too slurred on the top layer and would be nice to have it as optional, but that's how the library is in its current state. There are plenty of workarounds, and it's still one of the best tools out there despite it. It may require extra work, but I find libraries that require and allow the extra input end up giving the best results. Others just want a library that works with no drama and I completely understand that too.


----------



## Vik (Sunday at 3:08 AM)

Raphioli said:


> It shows that you really can't satisfy every single user


In terms of being able to have manual control over portamento, the situation is a little different, since many libraries offer a way to enable/disable portamento. Portamento length and volume is also controllable in some libraries. I’m surprised that Pacific doesn’t offer proper portamento control in all dynamic layers, but even without this, its IMO still a great library.


----------



## vanillemilch (Sunday at 8:29 AM)

A quick little thingie where I tried to re-create "The First Hunter" from Bloodborne. Just used out of the box Pacific. No EQ, no Reverb. I did fiddle around with the mic positions a little bit though. Solo violin is Performance Samples' Solos of the Sea Violin A for those wondering.

One can definitely get a lot closer to the original with better modwheel riding and proper eq'ing but I quite like the result nonetheless already. Great library!


----------



## Mr Greg G (Sunday at 10:14 AM)

Soundbed said:


> I also want @Mr Greg G to chime in


I'll try my best to reply before leaving to see Avatar 2. But I read through Noam post and everything sounds about right except for the conclusion because there are more portamentos than you may think 



NoamL said:


> 5. *STRING CROSSING* A transition between any Low note and any other Low note on the next string up or down is achieved by moving the bow from one string to its neighbor. The cellist practices a lot to make these transitions as invisible as possible: it is FAST and does not come with any sliding sound at all, because the left hand doesn't move. No portamentos


Legatos across strings are less common than on the same string. They're not rare though. It's more frequent to do a bow change in this case. Legatos across strings also allow the player to do 2 notes chords. True, the transition is fast and portamento is by definition not possible here.



NoamL said:


> The last reason for High position is if there is a melody that just fits easier with that collection of notes. For example, here is the same melody played in Low then High position. You can see why the cellist will find High less awkward!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly, this is the main reason for a hand position change. The hand position depends on the cue and we need to read a bit faster than what we play to anticipate which notes are following and decide where to put our hand. At least this happens when playing a cue for the very first time. While sight reading we leave notes on the cue sheet to remember the optimal (a compromise between the easiest way to play the notes and the most musical) hand position. I write a 1 above a note to reference the first finger and so on.



NoamL said:


> 7. *PORTAMENTOS* - the sound of the hand shifting between High & Low in either direction can be nicely simulated with a portamento transition _or_ a longer legato transition (like the "Slow" transition in CSS). This is just about the only time that a portamento transition is appropriate unless you are doing some kinda Roma violin thing!
> 
> The upshot of all of this? Less portamento is usually better.


I would say that the hand position can be simulated with a fast portamento in combination with a different note pitch. Because a very same note played on 2 different strings doesn't sound the same frequency wise. It can sound more nasal.

Portamentos are generally for slow and romantic cues where we can play (and hear) a lot of them like in The Swan from Camille Saint-Saëns. The slower the cue, the more portamentos you will find. It's still up to the performer to do portamentos or not, it's not like they are mandatory. Here is an example played by Yo Yo Ma so you can see for yourself:


----------



## AR (Sunday at 10:28 AM)

Okay, so I'm little late to the party. This track took me from New Year's Eve till now and is part of my new 2023 template which is based around the Teldex sound. I used Pacific as the main horse, but added Vista to it as a Divisi. Works wonderful. Appassionata did not match well for me. I tried even just the close mics (but you can hear Air Studios immediately). Pacific has a astonishing sound out of the box. The Legatos just follow my fingers on the keyboard. I compared it 1:1 against BSS & BS, but sorry guys. OT is last century. OT Brass & Woodwinds are great, but when it comes to strings, it sounds weird (like if the mics are not choosen right). I will give BSS another chance later this year, but for now. Pacific sets the bar. If you guys want, I can render just the strings ouf of this tune.


----------



## molemac (Sunday at 10:58 AM)

AlexSonicsMusic said:


> Because people are so concerned about the portamento I put it to the test. I frequently write agile dovetailing lines for my string players and most libraries have failed to render this in a realistic way.
> 
> I think pacific does really well here, even though I had to use some workarounds to avoid excessive portamento: avoiding the top dynamic layer and sometimes removing overlap worked for me.
> 
> ...



Sounds convincing all together but not so much in solo. Those portamentos are a problem especially on the shorter phrases. It's like Pacific wanted to let John Williams loose on a midi acid trip. Shame there isn't a version without.


----------



## Casiquire (Sunday at 11:27 AM)

Soundbed said:


> Me too, but two others are saying it’s “not legato” … I find it, let’s say, the least of my worries (personally).


Yeah this is how all legato used to work, and having that good a feel for the flow of a library is essential to making a good mock-up. That's why when you listen to some old pre-legato demos, they still sound so good. When asked the question "do you care more about using an actual transition or about getting a good result?" I hope the answer is obvious.


----------



## Vik (Sunday at 11:57 AM)

Soundbed said:


> Me too, but two others are saying it’s “not legato” … I find it, let’s say, the least of my worries


Well, even before Pacific the results were sometimes better with sustains than with legato, and in some legato presets in some libraries one cannot hear the transition anyway – the only purpose of legato in such situations is to stop the previous note automatically. 
So – whatever floats our boats, of course. But I do prefer to focus on music only when editing and not on tweaking parameters or note lengths in order to compensate for lacking functionality.... whenever that's possible.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Sunday at 12:01 PM)

jbuhler said:


> That would be nice. Assuming, as you say, it's effective.


I think that could work. Worse case scenario he could use samples from Con Moto that was recoprded in the same room. He could graft the Con Moto legato transition on top of the shortened slur legato from Pacific. The Con Moto lagato is a pretty fast bow transition. Yes it's a smaller ensemble but i think it could work well enough. I think someone simulated this using NSS earlier in this thread. I think that would be ideal cause there's already a beautiful slur, portamento transition plus a re-bow. A fast bow transition is all that is missing really. The grafting could be done to the 2 top vel. layers only and probably not necessary for the lower velocities. Some say the legato issue is being taken out of proportion and it's kind of true but i think, as it is, the legato does have limitations.

Anyway, i hope he considers this as an option cause the library sounds amazing. But that's probably more work than he's willing to put in. He's probably already working on the solo strings or Brass.

edited: I think the shorten slur legato trick is already being used in Pacific depending on playing speed.


----------



## novaburst (Sunday at 12:49 PM)

This guy does pull off some sweet legatos with Pacific, there is a little tweak that he does, that may interest you all.


----------



## mussnig (Sunday at 12:52 PM)

novaburst said:


> This guy does pull off some sweet legatos with Pacific, there is a little tweak that he does, that may interest you all.



Do you know where he talks about it (it's a long video after all) or what the tweak is?


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## Soundbed (Sunday at 12:53 PM)

novaburst said:


> This guy does pull off some sweet legatos with Pacific, there is a little tweak that he does, that may interest you all.



Where in the ~1.5 hrs is the tweak?


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## novaburst (Sunday at 1:13 PM)

mussnig said:


> Do you know where he talks about it (it's a long video after all) or what the tweak is?


Its near we he is setting up the violins near the beginning of the stream he did a tweak with the dynamic range nob, for some reason things sounded better


----------



## jbuhler (Sunday at 1:15 PM)

novaburst said:


> This guy does pull off some sweet legatos with Pacific, there is a little tweak that he does, that may interest you all.



A 25 minute pre-roll before the video even starts?


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## novaburst (Sunday at 1:19 PM)

He also did a comparison with Soaring String and we all know that has a good legato, and they were very similar


----------



## mussnig (Sunday at 1:27 PM)

novaburst said:


> Its near we he is setting up the violins near the beginning of the stream he did a tweak with the dynamic range nob, for some reason things sounded better


Interesting. He is expanding the dynamic range. IIRC in one of the Pacific threads here someone was talking about compressing the dynamic range (which means that one absolutely should use Expression together with Dynamics) which apparently should help with avoiding unwanted Portamentos.


----------



## novaburst (Sunday at 1:27 PM)

I am finding with the dynamic range full on i can overlap with out any port effect and gives a more general legato


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## Baronvonheadless (Sunday at 1:27 PM)

Can you share a link of the moment you mean? You can do with with YouTube videos, I assume old live streams too.


----------



## novaburst (Sunday at 1:32 PM)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Can you share a link of the moment you mean? You can do with with YouTube videos, I assume old live streams too.


not sure how to link it with that exact part but its near the beginning set up 25min in as @jbuhler mentioned


----------



## TomaeusD (Sunday at 1:33 PM)

About 36:17 is what they're referring to.


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## novaburst (Sunday at 1:34 PM)

I think this is how to turn off port so you can ride the Mod to any level


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## novaburst (Sunday at 2:00 PM)

Here is a good setting you can try, moved the compress cc/Vel Dyn range while in this setting and listen to how the port comes in,


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## Vik (Sunday at 4:03 PM)

There's a couple of ways to address the portamento thing in Logic.
Here's the first one, for those of you familiar with the Environment window.

If you set up this....






...pulling your CC fader all the way to the top will result in a value of 91. That couod be a useful max value if tge portamentos are triggered from CC1/80 and upwards, because you wouldn't get any portamentos unless you move you modwheel to the upper range.

You can also add a seconf real time Transform object, which would let you define what you lowermost CC value should be (if you want to avoid niente/no sound).
You don't need to use a calculator to figure out those values, because the two obecjts called Monitor objects shows both the value at your Mac's physical input (127 in this case) and what a scaling 0,72 (72%) will result in 91.

---

I just tried the above setting with a few different settings (again, it's easy to set up you preferred settings just by changing 0,7200 into something else) and look at what pops up in the leftmost monitor.

Most likely you would achieve the same thing with the MIDI plugin called Modifier, but I haven't tried this out yet. Using the Modifier plugin is of course a better solution, since you don't need to set up something semi-complex in the Environment in all your projects or template(s). Just set up a Modifier the way you want it, ans save the settings as a preset.

These are the settings I'll try in the Modifier MIDI plugin. Add 20 should avoid Niente, but maybe a better solution is to simply not pull the fader or modwheel all the way down to zero.





Edit: both these methods will work, but the Real Time Transform solution should be set to All (under Byte 2) instead if Inside 1-127.

Both methods will reduce _but not remove_ the effect of the baked in portamento transitions, by altering the dynamic range. Most people may prefer to have an 'Add' setting at zero, I guess, and by adjusting the scaling value, the 'feel' of the library will change. IF you use an add setting, the Scale setting needs to be reduced.

_Any Kontakt experts here, who can tell me at what CC1 value the lowermost (in terms of dynamics) is 'centered'? By centered I mean where the signal isn't boosted or reduced in volume. Since the lowermost range of the low CC values still plays back the most quiet sample but reduces it's volum, I'd like to use that as minimum value (in the CC1 range).

Likewise, if anyone knows at what CC value the samples in the loudest dynamic range are centered, I want to use that value as my max value in. In both cases I can use CC11 to boost or reduce the signals when needed – I just don't want that to happen automatically. With such settings, my controller fader will be a lot more useful, because when only using CC1, I will only slide between the loudest and most quiet samples without boosting or reducing anything – the fader will function as if it was a longer fader (more fine control). _

Since this is off the user demo topic, please don't respond here, but in this thread:





Fader philosophy and mistakes (and Pacific as an example)


This is about ways to make libraries sound more realistic, achieve an easier workflow, and, if desired, avoid potential side effects of our faders moving too much into the most intense dynamic levels (example: portamento transition may pop up, more than you want them to). Usually CC1 controls...




vi-control.net


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Sunday at 4:30 PM)

Finally had time to experiment and try a bit of writing with Pacific, still too sick to really give it a go but I'm loving it so far. Simple little piece, that I'll probably work on and turn into the start of my next Symphony. Maybe.


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## Noeticus (Sunday at 5:11 PM)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Finally had time to experiment and try a bit of writing with Pacific, still too sick to really give it a go but I'm loving it so far. Simple little piece, that I'll probably work on and turn into the start of my next Symphony. Maybe.



This is FANTASTIC! Excellent work all around! Wow!


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## Baronvonheadless (Sunday at 5:18 PM)

Noeticus said:


> This is FANTASTIC! Excellent work all around! Wow!


Shit! Thank you very much! 

I love doubling celli parts with violas in thirds but an octave higher and then take away the clashing notes and all of a sudden you sound like a genius 🙃😎


----------



## Noeticus (Sunday at 5:26 PM)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Shit! Thank you very much!
> 
> I love doubling celli parts with violas in thirds but an octave higher and then take away the clashing notes and all of a sudden you sound like a genius 🙃😎


How did you do the gliss at the very beginning? If that's what it is? Was it a Pacific effect patch?


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## Mr Greg G (Sunday at 5:37 PM)

Soundbed said:


> I also want @Mr Greg G to chime in


Was that what you were looking for? I have to admit I didn't know what the debate was exactly about 😅 I assumed you were referencing to Noam's post since you quoted him in your message.


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## Baronvonheadless (Sunday at 5:37 PM)

Noeticus said:


> How did you do the gliss at the very beginning? If that's what it is? Was it a Pacific effect patch?


Yeah! I haven’t heard anyone even use them yet in demos or speak about them. But there are several different lengths and the short clusters sound like psycho. Great feature!


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## Vik (Sunday at 6:03 PM)

ScarletJerry said:


> Here is an explanation from similar controls in Vista from a Youtube review:
> 
> *https://youtu.be/Vr0C_k02o7g?t=812*


For those interested in the Pacific B Page parameters – clicking on that link didn't work, but this one does:

Deep Review & Demo: VISTA Chamber Strings by Performance Samples


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## Soundbed (Sunday at 6:26 PM)

Mr Greg G said:


> Was that what you were looking for? I have to admit I didn't know what the debate was exactly about 😅 I assumed you were referencing to Noam's post since you quoted him in your message.


Yes, thank you 🙏🏻! I have been posting a lot lately, so I was trying to follow the guideline of “no thank you posts” … but thank you!


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## Mr Greg G (Monday at 4:55 AM)

Soundbed said:


> Yes, thank you 🙏🏻! I have been posting a lot lately, so I was trying to follow the guideline of “no thank you posts” … but thank you!


No problem, don't worry I was not fishing for thanks or anything, but rather was wondering if I got the topic of the current conversation right because I have not been following this thread that much TBH.
Anyway, to sum up @NoamL was quite spot on.


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## AlexSonicsMusic (Monday at 10:17 AM)

molemac said:


> Sounds convincing all together but not so much in solo. Those portamentos are a problem especially on the shorter phrases. It's like Pacific wanted to let John Williams loose on a midi acid trip. Shame there isn't a version without.


Well, here's the thing: The "all together" is what matters to me and I can make it work with very little mucking about. Other libraries including Berlin may offer dedicated agile legato patches but the results (for me) have been far inferior in terms of realism and sheer musicality to what pacific can do.
To demonstrate that was the purpose of my post. I bought the Berlin strings precisely because of the range of articulations and because it allows for total control over the portamento slides, which was important to me. However, after having spent a lot of time with the library, I have to admit that I never got it to sound the way I wanted.
Pacific meets about 80 % of my needs easily, and that's what I needed it to do.
I'm a happy Panda


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## Enc (Monday at 1:58 PM)

tabulius said:


> I arranged this short Dragon Age theme for testing purposes and for balancing my template. The Pacific really blends well with Vista and Performance Samples freebie solo violin and cello. I love it!
> 
> Full orchestra :
> 
> ...


I really like it...but the room noise in the beginning is awful. is that pacific out of the box or did you add some noise etc?


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## Baronvonheadless (Monday at 2:10 PM)

Enc said:


> I really like it...but the room noise in the beginning is awful. is that pacific out of the box or did you add some noise etc?


I would assume he’s got something on the master bus or on some of the other instruments. I hear it way more in the full orchestra version than the strings by themselves. 

Also some ppl add that kind of tape/noise floor/room noise for taste. Appassionata strings has it as an option. And a lot of tape plugins have it.


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## Enc (Monday at 2:17 PM)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I would assume he’s got something on the master bus or on some of the other instruments. I hear it way more in the full orchestra version than the strings by themselves.
> 
> Also some ppl add that kind of tape/noise floor/room noise for taste. Appassionata strings has it as an option. And a lot of tape plugins have it.


yes i know that there is a bonus to add noise floor. but for a dragon age song this seems unusual. i heared some more demos and well...the "almost white noise" really keeps me from getting this raw gem...maybe it is what it is...a raw gem and not the fine polished jewelry to wear every day  oh man...timbre is nice and lively. one could forgive some of the bow noises etc. but from a whole perspective and without a certain lean towards the producer...i mean, come on. this could be an outstanding product. now its "only" a string library with a certain good tone. but this is just my narrow view as a paying customer i guess. sorry :-(


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## Baronvonheadless (Monday at 2:19 PM)

Enc said:


> yes i know that there is a bonus to add noise floor. but for a dragon age song this seems unusual. i heared some more demos and well...the "almost white noise" really keeps me from getting this raw gem...maybe it is what it is...a raw gem and not the fine polished jewelry to wear every day  oh man...timbre is nice and lively. one could forgive some of the bow noises etc. but from a whole perspective and without a certain lean towards the producer...i mean, come on. this could be an outstanding product. now its "only" a string library with a certain good tone. but this is just my narrow view as a paying customer i guess. sorry :-(


No I just mean regardless of taste I hear it more on the version that’s not strings only. So if it was coming all from pacific you’d hear less in the full orchestral because other instruments would be covering it up. 

So I’m not sure what’s going on. 

I’m not really getting any white noise from pacific when I use it.


----------



## HitEmTrue (Monday at 2:55 PM)

NoamL said:


> You inspired me to update this reference table with Pacific and other recent libraries


Never saw that before. A great resource...even sticky worthy?


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## artinro (Monday at 3:43 PM)

Enc said:


> really keeps me from getting this raw gem...





Enc said:


> but this is just my narrow view as a paying customer i guess. sorry :-(


I'm confused. Do you own Pacific? If not, I think you'll quite love it; it IS a gem.

To me, what you're hearing in that example isn't noise from the library at all and as Baron says above, "white noise" really isn't a problem at all in the library.


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## tabulius (Monday at 9:28 PM)

Enc said:


> I really like it...but the room noise in the beginning is awful. is that pacific out of the box or did you add some noise etc?


Yes, it was added room noise. It was too much, I agree.


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## zedmaster (Yesterday at 12:42 AM)

Here is the demo from my video on Pacific Strings.

- Pacific only
- Most articulations and harp used at least once
- No EQ or mixing effects
- Reverb added (7th Heaven)
- Little mastering

View attachment Pacific Ensemble Strings Demo - Kevin Kuschel.mp3


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## I like music (Yesterday at 1:19 AM)

zedmaster said:


> Here is the demo from my video on Pacific Strings.
> 
> - Pacific only
> - Most articulations and harp used at least once
> ...


Meaty!


----------



## ScarletJerry (Yesterday at 6:40 AM)

zedmaster said:


> Here is the demo from my video on Pacific Strings.
> 
> - Pacific only
> - Most articulations and harp used at least once
> ...


I learned a new trick from your video - playback mode vs. live mode. I completely missed that.

Scarlet Jerry


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## ridgero (Yesterday at 10:18 AM)

Found Adagio for Strings


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## jbuhler (Yesterday at 11:05 AM)

Here is a piece for my noir detective on walkabout around the lonely city at night. (I have developed an alter ego as a noir detective for some of the instructional videos I make, and this music will go into the production library for that.) I'll replace the cello part at the end with a solo cello.

This uses the ensemble whisper sustains and legato at fairly low levels, only rarely rising above 50 on the modwheel for the legato and much of it well below that. Pizz rumbles along for much of it in the bass and cello. It was also composed with Pacific rather than adapting existing midi to it.

View attachment Pacific Noodle 1 (Noir Walkabout) 1.5a (+10db).mp3


This remains a very fun library to play, and for me a not so fun library to program, at least with the legato. I had many issues to resolve here with the legato, which still wants to fight me. Nine out of ten transitions will be fine, then I'll have one that just doesn't want to yield. Often I just give up and use detache. As some have noted up thread, the non-legato sustains often connect with a fluid detache that is very natural sounding, despite a lack of round robins or careful control over the attack, so this is not all bad. I also had an issue with note repetitions not sounding in some cases on this. I think that's a Logic issue or at least an interaction issue of Pacific with Logic. Some of the legato issues might be Logic related as well. In any case, I restarted Logic and the repetition problem resolved itself, which suggests that something in Logic or Kontakt needed to be reset. The low dynamic levels also seem quite fussy with this library, with a change of a single value on the modwheel (say from 26 to 27) sometimes having a disproportionate effect on the sound. It often seems the case that the low portion of the modwheel dynamics feel like they have less resolution than the higher levels, but that effect seems magnified with Pacific, and I likely need to calibrate some of the patches with the midi compressor/expander behind the "B" button. In any case, I still have several passes I need to make on levels to finalize this, and I might not be able to get an entirely satisfactory result until I do a proper mix. (This is currently mixed only through arrangement and performance.)

Pacific is out of the box here aside from a bit of added reverb tail (Seventh Heaven), panning the close mics to position strings in the standard order, with the exception of leaving basses centered.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Yesterday at 11:08 AM)

jbuhler said:


> Here is a piece for my noir detective on walkabout around the lonely city at night. (I have developed an alter ego as a noir detective for some of the instructional videos I make, and this music will go into the production library for that.) I'll replace the cello part at the end with a solo cello.
> 
> This uses the ensemble whisper sustains and legato at fairly low levels, only rarely rising above 50 on the modwheel for the legato and much of it well below that. Pizz rumbles along for much of it in the bass and cello. It was also composed with Pacific rather than adapting existing midi to it.
> 
> ...


Did you end up getting articulation sets to work properly with Pacific?


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## jbuhler (Yesterday at 11:20 AM)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Did you end up getting articulation sets to work properly with Pacific?


Yes, everything except trills. So my basic set up is a track loaded with a Kontakt multi of Pacific with each articulation given its own midi channel. That track has a script, Event Chaser by @Dewdman42, that propagates CCs across all channels. And the articulation set makes the selection by calling midi channels. This works well enough, but you can end up with CC conflicts if you aren't careful, since Logic wants to do CCs according to the midi channel that is active. So when you change articulations and so also midi channels there's the potential to generate additional CC data that conflicts. It's one of the pains of working with midi channels instead of proper keyswitches for programming midi. In any case, besides that main track, I have two additional tracks per instrument, one is just the legato track replicated because it's simpler and you can make easy keyswitch changes between sustain and legato. And the third is the trills patch, because I can't get it to trigger correctly when it is in the multi.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Yesterday at 11:32 AM)

Made this fan-cue inspired by evil dead rise. Strings are pacific. I eq’d them to try and make them sound like sordino


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## Enc (Yesterday at 12:22 PM)

zedmaster said:


> Here is the demo from my video on Pacific Strings.
> 
> - Pacific only
> - Most articulations and harp used at least once
> ...


sounds very interesting. i cant help but i hear some kind of octopath vibe in some of the string arcs


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## Dewdman42 (Yesterday at 1:12 PM)

jbuhler said:


> @Dewdman42, that propagates CCs across all channels. And the articulation set makes the selection by calling midi channels. This works well enough, but you can end up with CC conflicts if you aren't careful, since Logic wants to do CCs according to the midi channel that is active. So when you change articulations and so also midi channels there's the potential to generate additional CC data that conflicts.



Please help me understand this issue, maybe I can script around the issue somehow.


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## jbuhler (Yesterday at 1:21 PM)

Dewdman42 said:


> Please help me understand this issue, maybe I can script around the issue somehow.


Say I have legato on midi channel 1, whisper sustains on midi channel 3, and tremolo on midi channel 4. When I select whisper sustains as the articulation, the track changes to midi channel 3. It responds as expected to CC changes on the controller or drawn automation on whatever channel. But if I select a note, then the automation panel changes to the midi channel of that note, so modulation, channel 3. Which is fine in and of itself. But if I then change that note to say tremolo, which is on channel 4, I'm now presented with modulation for channel 4 and if I enter the modulation here then I have channel 4 modulation and channel 3 modulation both and so conflicts ensue if modulation is entered in both places. What would be preferable is just having CCs always record on channel 1, or any channel. But selecting any channel in Logic will always revert to the channel of the currently selected articulation, just as selecting channel 1 will revert to the channel of the currently selected articulation.


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## Dewdman42 (Yesterday at 1:39 PM)

I'll PM you...


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## ALittleNightMusic (Yesterday at 2:37 PM)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, everything except trills. So my basic set up is a track loaded with a Kontakt multi of Pacific with each articulation given its own midi channel. That track has a script, Event Chaser by @Dewdman42, that propagates CCs across all channels. And the articulation set makes the selection by calling midi channels. This works well enough, but you can end up with CC conflicts if you aren't careful, since Logic wants to do CCs according to the midi channel that is active. So when you change articulations and so also midi channels there's the potential to generate additional CC data that conflicts. It's one of the pains of working with midi channels instead of proper keyswitches for programming midi. In any case, besides that main track, I have two additional tracks per instrument, one is just the legato track replicated because it's simpler and you can make easy keyswitch changes between sustain and legato. And the third is the trills patch, because I can't get it to trigger correctly when it is in the multi.


So having spent some time with it now, and as an owner of other string libraries, happy with your purchase? Where do you see it fitting into your palette of libraries? More or less useful than something like Afflatus?

I ask because I trust you have honest thoughts and won’t be caught up in the cult of personality that often surrounds PS libraries. Or shiny new toy syndrome.


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## Nashi_VI (Yesterday at 3:02 PM)

Corda1983 said:


> It’s not strictly making it open source, but it opens up a few artistic and commercial cans of worms.
> 
> Firstly there’s just the artistic/personal element of it - PS made the library a certain way and whilst we may all be able to think of ways we’d do things differently, this isn’t a group project. It’s not exactly the same but it’s not a whole lot different to if you wrote an album of music and someone came along and said “hey this album is great, but I have some ideas to make it better - why don’t I send them over and you release the updated album?”. There’s just a personal sense of wanting the product you worked hard on to stand as it is. Everyone is going to have a bunch of ideas for improvements and fixes but… as I say… it’s not a collaborative effort.
> 
> ...


Someone should actually be the first to do something about this...i have a lot of ideas in minds to improve this grey area of sampling...nothing that insane or revolutionary, just things that have been proven to work in other industries...maybe one day...one day..... but nevermind my rambing, let's get back to Pacific.


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## ibanez1 (Yesterday at 3:38 PM)

Nashi_VI said:


> Someone should actually be the first to do something about this...i have a lot of ideas in minds to improve this grey area of sampling...nothing that insane or revolutionary, just things that have been proven to work in other industries...maybe one day...one day..... but nevermind my rambing, let's get back to Pacific.


I still think if one were to distribute an automation which takes your existing kontakt instrument patches and runs a script / executable which modifies the instrument patch to for example stitch legatos from another library into them, there is nothing that a sample library developer can have against that. It's functionally equivalent to giving step by step instructions in this forum to do that work except now someone has just written code to automate it.


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## jbuhler (Yesterday at 4:26 PM)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> So having spent some time with it now, and as an owner of other string libraries, happy with your purchase? Where do you see it fitting into your palette of libraries? More or less useful than something like Afflatus?
> 
> I ask because I trust you have honest thoughts and won’t be caught up in the cult of personality that often surrounds PS libraries.


Yes, happy with the purchase. No regrets, even if I have complaints/criticisms. Honestly it feels like a steal at the introductory price with the loyalty discount. (Not quite the steal BSS was for me given the discounts I had at the time, but close.) But I did not buy it expecting it would be my bread and butter large string section—I'm content with BSS in that role. For me, its function is more comparable to Afflatus, a kind of utility supplement that does things that expand usefully on what I already have—and the discounted price for Pacific is quite a lot less than Afflatus, even Afflatus at 50% off. In that sense—the sense of supplementing existing large string libraries—having all that portamento is a good thing, because sometimes I want more portamento than say BSS or HZS have on offer. And the legato is also capable of an exceptionally sweet tone, sweeter than most of my smaller section libraries that you'd think would beat any large string section by that measure. At the same time, that sweetness comes with a loss of weight, at least in the legato and the main sustain. What distinguishes almost all my other large string sections is the increased weight you feel as you crescendo, especially with any string section with 4 or more dynamic layers. I don't feel that increased weight much at all with the Pacific legatos and sustains, which seem to gain most of their intensity from the increased prominence of the portamento. I do feel that weight in the shorts. 

I haven't spent a lot of time with the shorts yet, but in my brief bit of work with them they seem magnificent. As I said the spiccatos and marcatos have symphonic weight, they have a kind of liveliness and also for better or worse an aggressiveness that doesn't lose tightness on account of being aggressive and weighty. I don't feel this aggressiveness really goes with the sweet tone of the legato, but both neatly supplement and extend what I already have in other libraries. The parts of Afflatus often feel similar in lacking parts to connect the whole into a coherent library but nevertheless excelling as the parts they are. The ensemble patches are great for working out ideas. I really like the sound of the trills, the tremolos, and the pizzicatos, all of which sound different from my other libraries. 

So lots and lots of positives to the library. 

My main frustration is the legato because I'm still having trouble controlling it—there's been nothing especially easy about working with it so far—and so I'm finding it takes me a long time to get to a result I'm happy with. I'm not sure if the issue is that what I want runs contrary to what the library is capable of delivering (so I'm finding Pacific's limits or stepping outside its sweet spot), that Logic is not playing nice with the library (there definitely seems to be some of this, maybe even a lot), that I'm not approaching it right in terms of working the automation, or if I'm stumbling onto bits of scripting errors that are causing problems. But from the standpoint of the use I'll get out of the library, legato is not so important, especially since the sustains without legato connect with a decent emulation of fluid detache, so my criticisms of the legato only run to a small part of the value of the library for me.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Yesterday at 4:33 PM)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, happy with the purchase. No regrets, even if I have complaints/criticisms. Honestly it feels like a steal at the introductory price with the loyalty discount. (Not quite the steal BSS was for me given the discounts I had at the time, but close.) But I did not buy it expecting it would be my bread and butter large string section—I'm content with BSS in that role. For me, its function is more comparable to Afflatus, a kind of utility supplement that does things that expand usefully on what I already have—and the discounted price for Pacific is quite a lot less than Afflatus, even Afflatus at 50% off. In that sense—the sense of supplementing existing large string libraries—having all that portamento is a good thing, because sometimes I want more portamento than say BSS or HZS have on offer. And the legato is also capable of an exceptionally sweet tone, sweeter than most of my smaller section libraries that you'd think would beat any large string section by that measure. At the same time, that sweetness comes with a loss of weight, at least in the legato and the main sustain. What distinguishes almost all my other large string sections is the increased weight you feel as you crescendo, especially with any string section with 4 or more dynamic layers. I don't feel that increased weight much at all with the Pacific legatos and sustains, which seem to gain most of their intensity from the increased prominence of the portamento. I do feel that weight in the shorts.
> 
> I haven't spent a lot of time with the shorts yet, but in my brief bit of work with them they seem magnificent. As I said the spiccatos and marcatos have symphonic weight, they have a kind of liveliness and also for better or worse an aggressiveness that doesn't lose tightness on account of being aggressive and weighty. I don't feel this aggressiveness really goes with the sweet tone of the legato, but both neatly supplement and extend what I already have in other libraries. The parts of Afflatus often feel similar in lacking parts to connect the whole into a coherent library but nevertheless excelling as the parts they are. The ensemble patches are great for working out ideas. I really like the sound of the trills, the tremolos, and the pizzicatos, all of which sound different from my other libraries.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the detailed thoughts!


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## Baronvonheadless (Yesterday at 6:58 PM)

Pacific Strings - user demo thread


Me too, but two others are saying it’s “not legato” … I find it, let’s say, the least of my worries Well, even before Pacific the results were sometimes better with sustains than with legato, and in some legato presets in some libraries one cannot hear the transition anyway – the only purpose...




vi-control.net






Re-posting this if anyone is interested because I just took a few hours and expanded the intro to it. I like this a lot and am definitely going to use it to open my next midi symphony.
Curious what you all think. 

I replaced the upload in soundcloud so this is now the new piece.

Tried to open it with super, super quiet strings to showcase the dynamics etc.


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## ibanez1 (Yesterday at 7:05 PM)

@jbuhler I know you were wishing for keyswitching support for pacific earlier in the thread. Do you own pluginguru's unify?

I asked the pluginguru forum if there was a way to control instrument layers in unify via keyswitch and got a very helpful response:





Allowing custom key switched instruments in unify


I would like to use unify in a way that allows key switched multis for libraries which otherwise don't support multi articulation patchesI'm essential...



forums.pluginguru.com





Essentially, you could set a unify patch up where each articulation is a single kontakt instance with one articulation loaded. You can then use the unify patches from the forum post I linked along with a free plugin called midiNotesToCC to control each layer with keyswitches of your choosing.

The added benefit of this solution is you could technically create hybrid multi-articulation patches where you could support for example NSS legato and Pacific legato on the same midi track under different keyswitches.


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## jbuhler (Yesterday at 7:13 PM)

ibanez1 said:


> @jbuhler I know you were wishing for keyswitching support for pacific earlier in the thread. Do you own pluginguru's unify?
> 
> I asked the pluginguru forum if there was a way to control instrument layers in unify via keyswitch and got a very helpful response:
> 
> ...


Thanks! I have it all working with articulation sets triggering midi channels inside a Kontakt multi. It all works except the trills. Articulation sets seem not to know what to do with needing hold two notes to get the trill. There are some minor inconveniences beyond the trills, but at this point they are quite minor. I also have Unify and will look to see if the workflow looks any easier to implement.


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## Leon Willett (Yesterday at 8:43 PM)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Made this fan-cue inspired by evil dead rise. Strings are pacific. I eq’d them to try and make them sound like sordino



I enjoyed that, thank you! May I ask what trumpet that is?


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## Dewdman42 (Yesterday at 9:19 PM)

jbuhler said:


> Thanks! I have it all working with articulation sets triggering midi channels inside a Kontakt multi. It all works except the trills. Articulation sets seem not to know what to do with needing hold two notes to get the trill. There are some minor inconveniences beyond the trills, but at this point they are quite minor. I also have Unify and will look to see if the workflow looks any easier to implement.


This could be scriptable


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## novaburst (Yesterday at 11:21 PM)

ibanez1 said:


> I know you were wishing for keyswitching support for pacific


Midi controller hardware are very good for this, you can load all you patches in konakt then switch articulation from your controller,

it will switch to the articulation assigned to that track, to me it has an advantage as if you are not satisfied with the volume level you can adjust the articulation on that single track for better blending


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## NeonMediaKJT (Today at 6:16 AM)

Leon Willett said:


> I enjoyed that, thank you! May I ask what trumpet that is?


It's Infinite Brass with a solo Sample Modeling trumpet layered on top


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## novaburst (Today at 6:42 AM)

novaburst said:


> Here is a good setting you can try, moved the compress cc/Vel Dyn range while in this setting and listen to how the port comes in,


Sorry guys this actually quietens the note not engage the ports, but its such a handy tool to use while playing, the only thing is pushing your slider up makes it quite, and pulling the slider down makes the note louder, that can take some getting used to


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## meradium (Today at 2:11 PM)

Not really sure what some people here have to complain about this library... is it the one and only that will do it all? No. But what I got out of this the last few hours has just blown my mind. Those flowing legatos and sustains are just beyond real. Simply amazing. You will have to learn to use it just like any other library. I surely would love to have a real 2nd violin section though


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## Jackdnp121 (Today at 2:37 PM)

meradium said:


> Not really sure what some people here have to complain about this library... is it the one and only that will do it all? No. But what I got out of this the last few hours has just blown my mind. Those flowing legatos and sustains are just beyond real. Simply amazing. You will have to learn to use it just like any other library. I surely would love to have a real 2nd violin section though


Amen …. A real 2nd violin will be sweeet …


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## Phazma (Today at 5:01 PM)

Could someone run this MIDI at around 120bpm through the Full Strings Marcato patch (velocity mode) for me? Would be great to hear how it reacts to different note lengths, dynamics, overlaps etc.. thank you  

If anyone owns Adventure Strings I would love to hear a comparison with that too (as it has no full strings adventure patch the midi could be split from top to bottom into 2xViolin, 2xViola, 1xCello, 1xBass).


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## Baronvonheadless (Today at 6:46 PM)

Ok I've been putting this piece through the motions, re-writing it over and over the past few days. On display here are legatos of all kinds, whisper sustains here and there, spiccato and Marcatos and some bass pizz!

Mixed with some CSW & CSB sparingly. All strings are pacific!


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## NoamL (Today at 7:34 PM)

Way more room tone than you need - try turning it down -12... but nice writing!


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## Rick S (Today at 7:36 PM)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Ok I've been putting this piece through the motions, re-writing it over and over the past few days. On display here are legatos of all kinds, whisper sustains here and there, spiccato and Marcatos and some bass pizz!
> 
> Mixed with some CSW & CSB sparingly. All strings are pacific!



All those somber snakes (hissing) I heard, is that from the room tone files?


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