# Desk, chair, and neck pain



## patrick76 (Mar 30, 2021)

Just got back from the walk-in clinic and am waiting for my muscle relaxer script to be filled. Last night woke up with shooting pain in my neck and left shoulder. It was terrible, I couldn’t move without pain at a level that made me think I might throw up. It’s still pretty bad. Anyway, I was thinking that I have pretty bad posture and had been sitting at my desk all day and suspect that coupled with whatever weird sleeping position I had last night may have caused this pain. 

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Do you think my desk/chair/posture theory sounds plausible?


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## SupremeFist (Mar 30, 2021)

Very very plausible. Some people start researching expensive chairs at this point, but my extremely strong recommendation would instead be to book some classes with a Pilates instructor or similar. (Yoga, Qigong, whatever is available near you.) You don't want someone who claims to be able to "do something to you" to fix you (eg chiropractors: run); you need someone who can show you how to fix yourself.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 30, 2021)

Could all be possible. I get neck pain just from titling my head back to read the screen through my progressive lense glasses too long.


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## LauraC (Mar 30, 2021)

I politely disagree about the chiropractor. I’ve been working with one on and off whenever I needed it and it’s kept me out of pain. I also agree about Pilates or Feldenkraus or something like that. However, the first step is to make sure your environment is as ergonomic as possible- particularly your display monitor level. Also, $40 sciatic gel pillow can be life changing. Hope you feel better soon.


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## SupremeFist (Mar 30, 2021)

LauraC said:


> I politely disagree about the chiropractor. I’ve been working with one on and off whenever I needed it and it’s kept me out of pain. I also agree about Pilates or Feldenkraus or something like that. However, the first step is to make sure your environment is as ergonomic as possible- particularly your display monitor level. Also, $40 sciatic gel pillow can be life changing. Hope you feel better soon.


I don't doubt that you have been helped, but chiropracty was literally made up by an itinerant American quack and fraud in the 19th century and its notions have no basis in scientific reality.  But yes, Feldenkrais is another good option!


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## el-bo (Mar 30, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Very very plausible. Some people start researching expensive chairs at this point, but my extremely strong recommendation would instead be to book some classes with a Pilates instructor or similar. (Yoga, Qigong, whatever is available near you.) You don't want someone who claims to be able to "do something to you" to fix you (eg chiropractors: run); you need someone who can show you how to fix yourself.


Good suggestions, though I think that Yoga would be my preferred choice.

But I'd also take a different view on the idea of the new chair. I'd suggest not getting anything that allows you to sit comfortably for hours on end, without having to stand up.
I'd suggest getting the cheapest chair you can and sit on the edge of it. If it has no back, even better.









Proper Sitting Posture


Understand proper sitting posture options and postural exercises to reduce pain from long term sitting.



www.natural-solutions-for-muscle-pain.com





Another alternative would be to use an adjustable piano stool/bench, or if you're really committed then get an exercise ball and go 'Full-Heap


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## LauraC (Mar 30, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Good suggestions, though I think that Yoga would be my preferred choice.
> 
> But I'd also take a different view on the idea of the new chair. I'd suggest not getting anything that allows you to sit comfortably for hours on end, without having to stand up.
> I'd suggest getting the cheapest chair you can and sit on the edge of it. If it has no back, even better.
> ...



My sound engineer on my last 2 CDs used the Balance Ball and swore by it. The trick is getting one that is *just* the right height~


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## nilblo (Mar 30, 2021)

Balance Ball is a good advice, anything that forces you to sit "actively" and not slouch, is good for most people with back/neck problems. I have since more than 20 years been suffering from two doublesided disc herniations on levels C5-C6 & C6-C7. The first couple of years I could only function with a lot of painkillers. Then I started looking for ergonomic chairs and now I have three different ones to alternate between. One is called "Muvman" and that one makes you sit with activation of essential supportive muscles in your back. Any chair that allows me to sit without activity in musclegroups in my back, provokes pain. Pendulum Office chair by Opsvik is also a comfortable chair. My preferred chair at the diningtable. Capisco Hag also by Opsvik is my favorite and the one I use most of the time. Any soft office chair that allows me to sit like I would sit in a comfortable armchair, is murder for my back & neck.


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## fakemaxwell (Mar 30, 2021)

This might be beyond the scope of the forum, but biomechanical causes for pain (sitting "wrong," not using tools that are "ergonomic") are typically not what the latest pain research points to. It's better to think of things from a broader viewpoint when trying to figure out root causes for why certain positions might be causing you pain, the narrative is more complex than it's been explained to nearly everybody.

For a better understanding, check these out:








Curable - The App for Chronic Pain


A guided program that helps you understand why you have pain, why it persists, and what you can do about it.




www.curablehealth.com












Pain in training: What do? | Barbell Medicine


So you’ve been training, but have started experiencing pain. This is an extremely common experience that we get asked about on a daily basis. Essentially, the question is “Doc, what do I do?” Before we begin, we should point out that this will not be a philosophical magnum opus on pain and the...




www.barbellmedicine.com












Pain is Weird: A Volatile, Misleading Sensation


Modern pain science shows that pain is an extremely unpredictable sensation, heavily tuned by the brain and jostled by complex variables — not the relatively simple response to tissue insult that we tend to assume, and that most treatment is based on.




www.painscience.com





If anybody has more specific questions fire away, I'm not a doctor and by no means an expert but I can point you in the right direction, beyond what's linked above.


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## gyprock (Mar 30, 2021)

I'm going through slight dizziness which I think is a result of posture combined with an old glasses script. I did a search on Google and found that the neck, jaw, eyes and balance system share various muscles and one can affect the other. In my case, I've been doing some neck exercises in combination with tilting my head backwards because of progressive lenses. This has done something in the skeletal/muscular system that makes me constantly aware of my vision and muscles around the head. This result in hyper-awareness when there is actually nothing significantly wrong.

Couple this with wearing headphones that adds weight to the head and you've got the equivalent of a bowling ball acting as a pendulum. Ironically, the more exercise you do to improve the problem can actually make it worse because it fires up the nervous system - a bit like drinking strong coffee.

I'm waiting on a new script for my glasses which enlarges the close to medium viewing area so I won't need to tilt my head as much. Hopefully this will improve the situation. If not, I'll go with a 2nd pair of glasses that are scripted just for reading and computer work.


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## Prockamanisc (Mar 30, 2021)

I got 2 footstools (I have big feet) so that I can support myself as I sit back in my chair. My advice - spend a minute experimenting and picturing what would be exactly comfortable for you, then find the furniture that helps you find that position.

Things I've found helpful:
-The aforementioned footstools.
-A chair with a squishy seat that supports my weight. If my butt presses through and hits the wooden base, I get uncomfortable, and seek to alleviate that discomfort by putting pressure on my feet/legs/knees.
-The height of the monitor, making sure it fits my natural sightline.
-The placement of my keyboard and mouse in a comfortable/natural position.
-A standing desk.
-A foot pad for when you're standing at your standing desk.


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## InLight-Tone (Mar 30, 2021)

The human body is not designed to sit all day at a desk. You need to move every day, all day ultimately. In the "modern" world, That breaks down to maybe 2 hours maximum sitting, and then getting up and moving. Lift weights, run, walk if you can't run, ride a REAL bike, not an electric. Do a variety of activity every day. Resist at all cost the easy way out to take drugs to cope with your UNNATURAL LIFE/Style.

Couple this with eating whole, natural, unprocessed, organic foods, ADAPTOGENIC taoist herbs, get 30+ minutes of NAKED Sun/Light daily, drink only pure filtered reverse osmosis water or better and spend at least 1-2 HOURS a day in WILD nature for ultimate SANITY.

I know, I know, no one is going to do that. So be it, then SUFFER accordingly. You have been educated/warned. Remember successful people have killed themselves like Chris Cornell, Chester Bennington and others at the height of fame & tons of $$$ What was missing???


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 30, 2021)

Nobody here knows what position Patrick sits in at his desk or anything else about his ergonomic setup. Even if we were healthcare professionals, we'd have to know that first.

My sense is that being uncomfortable precedes hurting your body due to bad ergonomics. In other words, if your neck is going to hurt from looking up at a computer screen, you're going to be increasingly uncomfortable over a long period of time. It's not an acute injury - although those happen too, of course, and you can easily do damage by sleeping in a bad position.

Obviously core strength is good for your back, in fact being in condition is good in general. But that may or may not be the issue.


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## Windbag (Mar 30, 2021)

Yeah. fix your posture. The spendy chairs do help for specific things but ergonomics is kind of a full package. Leaning over a piano/keyboard to reach QWERTY/mouse is far from ideal. Look into sit-stand work setup (you're not going to want to do either one ALL day so either change your work surface to standing height and use a drafting chair (problematic for pedals) or spring for a variable height worktop. 

Take breaks - use a timer, fitness band/smartwatch if you have to, but every half hour or so, get up, move around, breath fresh air, change your focal distance. 

Stay hydrated. Seriously. most people don't and it's one of the largest causes of preventable health problems (including the spasmatic variety it sounds like you may have landed yourself) I try to keep water at hand at all times (I rotate retired whiskey bottles of filtered water from the fridge and make sure I go through several a day...at least one per coffee)

These are hunter/gatherer bodies we occupy and they need to mooooove. I find that getting real exercise actually helps creatively as much as it does physically....there's something about the change, the unbroken thinking time that lets me push vague notions through through to usable ideas.


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## patrick76 (Mar 31, 2021)

InLight-Tone said:


> I know, I know, no one is going to do that. So be it, then SUFFER accordingly. You have been educated/warned.


This reads a bit strange to me. I’m not sure if you’re trying to help me or threaten me


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## el-bo (Mar 31, 2021)

LauraC said:


> My sound engineer on my last 2 CDs used the Balance Ball and swore by it. The trick is getting one that is *just* the right height~


I used one for a period of time. I only stopped because I had a real cheap one and couldn't shake the feeling that any moment it would just explode underneath me 

But cool to see that more people are trying it. And yes, the correct height is important.


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## SupremeFist (Mar 31, 2021)

InLight-Tone said:


> drink only pure filtered reverse osmosis water


I'm confused by this as no one in the history of the human species has been able to drink water this pure until very recently, so there can't be any paleo-style benefit.

I do have beer, though. Is beer a good substitute?


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## el-bo (Mar 31, 2021)

fakemaxwell said:


> This might be beyond the scope of the forum, but biomechanical causes for pain (sitting "wrong," not using tools that are "ergonomic") are typically not what the latest pain research points to. It's better to think of things from a broader viewpoint when trying to figure out root causes for why certain positions might be causing you pain, the narrative is more complex than it's been explained to nearly everybody.
> 
> For a better understanding, check these out:
> 
> ...


Definitely gonna check your links. But wanted to mention that I think the advice so far being offered is more general in its focus for avoiding certain pitfalls that can arise from bad posture, which are exacerbated simply by virtue of the length of time we are considering. 

I'd make the same recommendations for sitting whether somebody is in pain or not. Fortunately I didn't experience any issues before focussing on my own changes. I doubt it would've taken much longer for me to have started to experience problems.


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## Windbag (Mar 31, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> For water? Only American beer.


Hey now, that hits right in the prohibition.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 31, 2021)

My deep insight: if your setup doesn't hurt your body, it's good.

Even deeper insight (amazing I don't charge for this): pain is your body's way of telling you're not sitting in a comfortable position.


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## vitocorleone123 (Mar 31, 2021)

A balance ball all the time is of dubious benefit. There’s some difference of opinion on that. Using one for a period of time each day would be a safer bet. In other words - sit, stand, move. A mix is better than any one of them.

With the intensity of the pain described I’d definitely see a doctor to make sure you’re otherwise healthy. Then I’d consult an ergo specialist. Don’t mess around and don’t self diagnose and self treat beyond some basics like taking breaks.


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## wsimpson (Apr 5, 2021)

I recently set up a music studio and had neck pain almost right away. My monitor was way too high and I lowered it to eye level instead of looking up at it. Pain went away right away.


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