# Cinesamples CineBrass PRO RELEASED!!!



## Cinesamples (Sep 27, 2011)

*CineBrass PRO site:* http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrasspro/

*CineBrass PRO* is the expansion to the popular *CineBrass* Core Library. *CineBrass PRO* is comprised of *entirely new* orchestral brass sample content, using the first-call Los Angeles musicians at the SONY Scoring Stage, mixed by Dennis Sands.

Our *CineBrass* Core Library, released in June 2011, covers the essentials of the orchestral brass section, and functions as a solid foundation in our composing templates. But what about all the other things brass can do? We asked you, the film music community, what you wanted to see in an expansion. The result is *CineBrass PRO.*

01 Trumpet Solo Articulations
02 Trumpet Solo True Legato PRO
03 Trumpets Ensemble Muted Articulations
04 Trumpets Ensemble Harmon Mute Articulations
05 Horn Solo Articulations
06 Horn Solo True Legato PRO
07 Horns Ensemble Stopped and Fluttered
08 Horns Ensemble Triad Chords
09 Horns Ensemble Seventh Chords
10 Horns Ensemble Rips
11 Twelve Horn Ensemble Articulations
12 Twelve Horn Ensemble True Legato
13 Twelve Horn Ensemble Mutes
14 Trombone Solo Articulations
15 Trombone Solo True Legato PRO
16 Trombones Ensemble Muted Articulations
17 Trombones Ensemble Chords
18 Tuba Solo Articulations
19 Tuba Solo True Legato PRO
20 Full Brass Ensemble FX Part 1
21 Full Brass Ensemble FX Part 2
22 Full Brass Ensemble FX Part 3
23 Full Brass Ensemble High Chords
24 Full Brass Ensemble Low Chords
Also: Bonus CineBrass Bundle Patches

Coming 2011 (weeks, not months away)


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## artinro (Sep 27, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Awesome news, guys!

Weeks not months....sweet!


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## smoothielova (Sep 27, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

It is like waiting for Christmas. :shock:


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## eschroder (Sep 27, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Awesome guys! looking forward to it.


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 27, 2011)

Hey, some mouthwatering stuff there - congrats guys. 

I guess I'm kinda surprised by one seeming-omission though - you folks have previously mentioned a new auto-divisi mode which was on the cards for Pro. Did this get dropped? It sounded like a great idea. Also I reeeeeeeealllly am hoping for a good basic horns legato - I guess the 12 horns will rock, but how about something a little smaller... will there be an enhanced version of the original in the bundle patches?


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## dedersen (Sep 27, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

You guys are so darn sneaky with these releases. It is a bit quiet for a while and then bam! Only weeks away.

Like Guy, I am curious about the "divisi" stuff you mentioned in the previous pro thread. Oh, and any additional info on dynamic layers and round robin would be great, as well as those tasty sounding bonus patches. Then again who am I kidding, I will buy this in a heartbeat.


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## jamwerks (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Great news !!

Like the others, I'm wondering about the size of the "ensembles"
Are they a2, a3, or A4?

EDIT: Just watched the video. Looks like the Trumpet ensemble will be a3.
For myself I could live with a3 and not a2's. Hopefully there will be a2 or a3 for horns also !!


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## bluejay (Sep 28, 2011)

Absolutely wonderful! Cannot wait to get this.


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## mpalenik (Sep 28, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Wed Sep 28 said:


> Hey, some mouthwatering stuff there - congrats guys.
> 
> I guess I'm kinda surprised by one seeming-omission though - you folks have previously mentioned a new auto-divisi mode which was on the cards for Pro. Did this get dropped? It sounded like a great idea.



I'm wondering about this, too. It looks great, but I'm wondering about this feature, too. I was really interested to hear more about it. Is it still going to be included? I'm sure I'll buy it either way.


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## Hicks (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

I truly hope that the divisi features (the only real thing I was waiting for) are not the triad and seventh chords ensemble!!

Moreover, I am frightened by the 'all new samples" statement. I was pretty sure that Pro was some kind of upgrade for Cinebrass. But it seems to be a new library, so will there be a discount for people having bought Cinebrass?

I really hope that my fears are not legitimate.

o-[][]-o


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## EwigWanderer (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*



Hicks @ 9.28.2011 said:


> Moreover, I am frightened by the 'all new samples" statement. I was pretty sure that Pro was some kind of upgrade for Cinebrass. But it seems to be a new library, so will there be a discount for people having bought Cinebrass?
> 
> I really hope that my fears are not legitimate.
> 
> o-[][]-o



Well it's been clear from the start that cinebrass pro will include new recorded samples. I think it's a great thing


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## Hicks (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Yes, I guess it's my mistake:

I was reading all samples would be new samples. I guess I should have read featuring all new samples.
:oops:


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## Tanuj Tiku (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Hey Mike,

Does Cinebrass Pro Contain the normal Cine brass stuff? I understand its a completely new sample base. 

If I wanted to buy the complete Brass collection - I would just buy Cinebrass Pro or would I have to buy both the Pro and normal version?

I can see you have solo stuff as well, so I am thinking this is a completely new and comprehensive brass library.

Please do update us on the price when you can! 


Look forward to it. Its going to be between CineBrass pro and Hollywood brass for me. I shall wait till your release Cine brass pro!


Thanks.


Regards,

Tanuj.


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 28, 2011)

Hi Tanuj, both will be different, and there will be a bundle for everything, that much is clear. For example, Pro has no straight trumpets legato or articulations for example, because these are already covered in the basic version.


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## jamwerks (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Can't wait to read also what exactly is included in "articulations". Is it just 3 shorts and sus, or are there more pleasent surprises (portato, sfz, trills, flutter, etc.)???


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## Hicks (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

You're right Noiseboyuk.

If we look closely at the spec, Cinebrass is needed to get all the features.
For example solo horn legato has only one velocity layer in cinebras,, I guess the pro version would be the other layers.

So that's cool for the expansion. It means that the price will be also smart!

But the true question is this famous divisi feature as instruments doesn't seem to have been recorded a2, a3 and a4 separately!

My guess is that divisi will be the triad and seventh chord and my guess is that all inversion would be available. I hope not, becasue it will not permit us to get free voice leading!


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## Cinesamples (Sep 28, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Tue Sep 27 said:


> Hey, some mouthwatering stuff there - congrats guys.
> 
> I guess I'm kinda surprised by one seeming-omission though - you folks have previously mentioned a new auto-divisi mode which was on the cards for Pro. Did this get dropped? It sounded like a great idea. Also I reeeeeeeealllly am hoping for a good basic horns legato - I guess the 12 horns will rock, but how about something a little smaller... will there be an enhanced version of the original in the bundle patches?



No no, not dropped. This is what we mean by bonus patches. This will be one of the features available to those who have both libraries because it will require sample content from both libraries (solo artics + ens artics ex.). More on that later.


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## Cinesamples (Sep 28, 2011)

There will be a CineBrass Bundle that contains both CineBrass and CineBrass PRO. 
CineBrass PRO is an "expansion". For lack of a better word. CineBrass 1 will always be the foundation in my composing template since it contains all the ensemble articulations. PRO has Solo Articulations, and Muted Ensemble Ariculations.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

o=< o=< o=< o=< o=< o=< o=< o=< o=< o=< o=< o=< 

8)


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## dcoscina (Sep 28, 2011)

Feeling really great about going with CineSamples' CineBrass. The odd time I've bought a library and kind of regretted it afterwards is totally not applicable here. Love the new update (and customer support to boot!) and the Pro trailer. 
Considering buying Hollywoodwinds since that's lacking in my set up (I own a lot of other CineSamples' libraries!


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 28, 2011)

CineSamples @ Wed Sep 28 said:


> No no, not dropped. This is what we mean by bonus patches. This will be one of the features available to those who have both libraries because it will require sample content from both libraries (solo artics + ens artics ex.). More on that later.



Interesting... looking forward to seeing more on that!

Bonus question - I'm as prepared as I can be for the 12 horns to have all the power of a rocket-propelled freight train, and that'll be terrific. Do they play any p stuff as well, perchance?


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## Cinesamples (Sep 28, 2011)

Yup, we grabbed quieter dynamics on the 12 horns. It's a pretty awesome sound.

Okay, enough with the words right? We'll put together some audio examples and post them here.


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## EwigWanderer (Sep 28, 2011)

CineSamples @ 9.28.2011 said:


> We'll put together some audio examples and post them here.



o-[][]-o


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## dedersen (Sep 28, 2011)

CineSamples @ Wed Sep 28 said:


> Okay, enough with the words right? We'll put together some audio examples and post them here.



Love this attitude! Bring on the audio examples.


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 28, 2011)

CineSamples @ Wed Sep 28 said:


> Yup, we grabbed quieter dynamics on the 12 horns. It's a pretty awesome sound.



Awesome



CineSamples @ Wed Sep 28 said:


> Okay, enough with the words right? We'll put together some audio examples and post them here.



fff Awesome


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## sevaels (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Fantastic.

Can't wait :D


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## smoothielova (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

IT HAS BEGUN!!!!!! =o


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## JT (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Looks really exciting! Any pricing info yet?


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## FredrikJonasson (Sep 28, 2011)

CineSamples @ Wed Sep 28 said:


> Yup, we grabbed quieter dynamics on the 12 horns. It's a pretty awesome sound.
> 
> Okay, enough with the words right? We'll put together some audio examples and post them here.



Don't forget the divisi! :D


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## NYC Composer (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Did I hear a pin drop? No wait-that must have been the pricing info-damnit! My hearing-I totally missed it...... :wink:


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## rgames (Sep 28, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Looks great guys - really looking forward to adding this content to the first release!

Sound is spot-on!

rgames


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 29, 2011)

CineSamples @ Wed Sep 28 said:


> PRO has Solo Articulations, and Muted Ensemble Ariculations.



Just wondering, why muted ensemble instead of muted soloists?

Looks like a great expansion, can't wait to hear what the pricing options will be.


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## stonzthro (Sep 29, 2011)

+1 on the pricing...


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## Cinesamples (Sep 29, 2011)

Hi Mike, 

Simply because we wanted it to compliment the Ensemble Articulations in the CineBrass Core Library.

FYI, for the sake of clarity we are now calling CineBrass 1: "CineBrass Core Library". 

Good News: Everything is now mapped into all the patches. We officially have a fully functional library. Now it's time for the tedious testing work. If everything is at an "acceptable" state, we can send the library to NI for encoding of the audio samples. During that time, we can continue work on tweaking so that we're not wasting time waiting for NI.

Mike


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## jamwerks (Sep 29, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

No mutes on soloists? So I can write a monophonic melody (a3) with mutes, but then no 3 or 4 part chords (3 trumpets, 4 horns)? I find that surprisingly limiting for a "Pro" library (sorry to say). And 12 horns stopped, but no solo? :shock: 

Too bad to have one of the best rooms in the world, some of the best players, but a not complete articulation list.

bummed, but good luck. I'm sure that what there is sounds great ! o-[][]-o


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## JT (Sep 29, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Since the requests for pricing info seems to have fallen on deaf ears, I thought I would just start the guessing game.

CB - $399
HB Gold - $495 (will the sale price end on 9-30, ????)
HB Diamond - $795 ($300 more than Gold)

Yet the list of articulations in HB is still more complete. 
So what is CB PRO worth to everyone?

Another $399 for CB PRO to me is too high to me. I like the approach than Andrew did with LASS LS. LS on its own, $500. But if you already own LASS, it was half. With that formula, CB PRO for $199 would work for me. 

What do you guys think?

JT


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## Cinesamples (Sep 29, 2011)

We will release pricing info on release day. 

But we can say this: there will be special pricing for current owners of CineBrass core library, even though PRO is entirely new content.

Here's a cool stat, now that we're nearing the finish line: CineBrass PRO, in its uncompressed audio format is 41GB. The original CineBrass core library was under 18GB in its uncompressed state (9GB in NCW format).

So far, CineBrass PRO has over twice the amount of samples/articulations/fx/goodies as the CineBrass core library.

But we've had this discussion? I think I did a facebook vote a while back that said "What elements are most important to you when choosing a library?" Size was at the bottom of the list, ease-of-use and recording quality at top.


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## Cinesamples (Sep 30, 2011)

User interface: 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

Thoughts?


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## germancomponist (Sep 30, 2011)

CineSamples @ Wed Sep 28 said:


> Okay, enough with the words right? We'll put together some audio examples and post them here.



A link?


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## mpalenik (Sep 30, 2011)

CineSamples @ Fri Sep 30 said:


> User interface:
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater
> 
> Thoughts?



I love the changes you made in the new interface. The way The "Trumpets Solo True Legato" now says "Trumpets Solo True Legato Pro" is just amazing. Also, the way it's blueish now, instead of orangeish, is just incredible. I don't know how you guys pull it off! :roll: 

Seriously, though, I am really looking forward to this. I just hope it's not too expensive. Between the sample libraries, opera tickets, and other things I've been spending money on, my graduate student stipend can barely cover it! Did you ever think about offering an educational discount? It's kind of depressing to think that I could have gotten Hollywood Brass Gold for $297.50 when I had already spent $399 on Cinebrass. Of course, there were various reasons that Cinebrass actually was a bit better for me (memory usage, the fact that with my setup, it's a lot more convenient to keep everything in Kontakt, etc.).


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## AndrewS (Oct 1, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Very excited for this Mike, can't wait to try it out!


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## germancomponist (Oct 1, 2011)

I would like to listen......?


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## pablo1980 (Oct 5, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Mike, I am thinking of buying the bundle, BUT, would it be better (and I mean in a price tag manner :D ) to buy cinebrass now and then pro?

Botton line, buying cinebrass now and then cinebrass pro later will be cheaper than buying the whole bundle later?


Thanks!!!!


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## nickhmusic (Oct 5, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

I'd be curious to know this too.


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## FredrikJonasson (Oct 5, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

I emailed them around a week ago, they said that it won't be more expensive to order Cinebrass core library now and PRO when it arrives. But honestly it's a bit confusing since I've read both that there will be special pricing for owners of the core library, and that there will be bundle options. 

Fredrik


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 5, 2011)

Well, one option could be that - for the sake of argument - the bundle could be $598. CB today costs $399, so there could be a special price of $199 for existing customers. But the clever bit is that on release, CB could drop to $299, which could also be the standalone price for CB Pro. This way, it wouldn't penalise anyone for buying at any point.

Please understand these figures are entirely fictitious, I've no idea what the folks have in mind and we won't know precise details til release day, this is just to illustrate how you could have your cake and eat it.


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 10, 2011)

M&M have just said on FB that CB Pro is with NI.

How concise of me.


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## MaestroRage (Oct 10, 2011)

yay! A few more days to wait...


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 10, 2011)

MaestroRage @ Mon Oct 10 said:


> yay! A few more days to wait...



Well... weeks realistically. I think last time it was almost the full six weeks, but we may luck out and get it a little less this time. I'm not convinced lobbying NI helped any, mind.

OK then St Mikes, while we wait time for a video teaser I reckon!


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## tfishbein82 (Oct 10, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*



FredrikJonasson @ Wed Oct 05 said:


> I emailed them around a week ago, they said that it won't be more expensive to order Cinebrass core library now and PRO when it arrives. But honestly it's a bit confusing since I've read both that there will be special pricing for owners of the core library, and that there will be bundle options.
> 
> Fredrik


There's nothing tricky about it. Look at AudioBro.
LASS - $999
LASS Sordino - $499
LASS Sordino for LASS owners - $249
LASS Bundle - $1248

Same price to buy LASS, LASS Sordino in succession as to buy the bundle. Buying only LASS Sordino costs more.


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## dedersen (Oct 14, 2011)

CineSamples @ Wed Sep 28 said:


> Yup, we grabbed quieter dynamics on the 12 horns. It's a pretty awesome sound.
> 
> Okay, enough with the words right? We'll put together some audio examples and post them here.



Feed us! We are hungry for more brass!


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## Cinesamples (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

http://soundcloud.com/mpatti/cinebrass-pro-twelve-horns

Quickie demo of the Twelve Horns Patch in the upcoming CineBrass PRO

http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrasspro


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## Cinesamples (Oct 17, 2011)

On the other end of the spectrum: Here's a quick example of the Horn Chords patches in CineBrass PRO. This is 4 horns, divided into 4-note harmonies. 

http://soundcloud.com/mpatti/cinebrass-pro-horn-chord


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## eschroder (Oct 17, 2011)

Diggin that and the divisi demo =]


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## Vision (Oct 17, 2011)

CineSamples @ Mon Oct 17 said:


> On the other end of the spectrum: Here's a quick example of the Horn Chords patches in CineBrass PRO. This is 4 horns, divided into 4-note harmonies.
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/mpatti/cinebrass-pro-horn-chord



Mike that's an awesome sound. This is just one patch played in real time? Is that legato I hear as well?


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## jamwerks (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Really fantastic. You guys nailed the sound. o-[][]-o


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## Hicks (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

The divisi sound is awesome!!!!  

However (Ok I am a pain in the ass guy), the number of parrallel fiths and octaves I can hear make me doubt about the ay we can effectively use them.
Are they chords and inversion like in cineorch?


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 17, 2011)

Ah yeah! Loving everything (except the usual sonic hatchet job that Soundcloud performs on everything). The legato sound great, kinda like 1.0 - here's the big question, what's your approach going to be on the faster stuff? (I appreciate it's a tough juggling act to keep us all happy, speaking as a 1.1 legato-sceptic). It's also really nice to hear the p stuff sounding good too. The choir sounds excellent.

For the divisi, that sounds like it's non-legato, but to be honest I still struggle with polyphonic legato and I'm not sure how useful that would have been in practice anyway. Overall this sounds very cool, and the divis concept will be a terrific asset to the library for the smaller parts. Congrats guys, keep the demos coming!


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## dedersen (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Oh my. Those twelve horns sound incredible. I am especially thrilled with the softer sound around 0:20 and onwards. And the p chords starting around 1:08 are breathtaking. Lovely stuff. Agree with Guy though, could you upload these elsewhere, it's difficult to really appreciate the sound through the Soundcloud filter.

The divisi chords sound lovely as well. Are these patches like the CineOrch stuff, with chords on single keys and keyswitches to change between mode and inversion? The sound is definitely there, but like Hicks I am a bit curious for more information.


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## mikebarry (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

The rule of parallel 5th's and octaves died many hundreds of years ago.


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## Hicks (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*



mikebarry @ Mon Oct 17 said:


> The rule of parallel 5th's and octaves died many hundreds of years ago.



Hum..; I don't agree really.

But it's only a point of view. If you look at classical music, parrallel movement were highly prohibited because sounded harsh, from baroque to classical to romantism period.

Impressionist began to use them more but never on triads, only whenever they were seventh and ninth to hide a little this progression.
When parallel fiths are used on triads on classical stuff, it sounds still a little bit hars on me (the main theme form Lord of the rings for example, is difficult for me to hear).

But it's only a point of view, rock is made only of parallelism, and the percusive sound coming from it is great.
So it depends of the sound you would like to hear. But I would not make a definitve statement like this.

But your comment make me think that divisi are the chords part.

That's not a complain, regarding to the lovely sound we can hear, your samples are really really good. 
And I will pretty sure use them for some divisi chords whenever I can.
But when I will try to avoid parallelism, I will use some other library (or other patches from Cinebrass) as well.
Cinebrass is one of the best sounding library at the moment. I am just wondering how works the divisi concept in it.


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## mikebarry (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

I've never heard anyone to have such an opinion but that is fine. I practice piano and listen to the classical repetoire all for hours a day and the 5ths don't ever bother me. 
I've pretty much abandoned anything my professors told me was a rule, because its not.

They are actually widely imployed by film composers - Goldsmith and Williams.


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## Hicks (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Im' not here to struggle.

Just to say that the fact of hearing a lot of parallelism make me think, the divisi stuff is working like chords in cineorch with prerecorded four voices divisi.
And that is cool.

We can continue a lot by arguing:

-Bach is not using parallel fiths
-of course he is, on one of his choral song...

I have not heard a lot of parallel stuff in Williams. But that's true he is using it some times when he wants to modulate by half a tone. I remember one example in hook. But I can tell one hundred examples when he avoids them. 

I think that knowing the rules are great to know when to use them and when to avoid them.
I don't know a lot of goldsmith work unfortunately.

Composers are of course free to get rid of rules, that the main part of composing.
But when one try to make a pastiche or to sound like one period, they have to respect the rules (it's like making a 4 times valse... ok Brel Does).
For example, when Williams is pastiching Rossini in Harry Potter 3, he is following the rules in place in the XIXth century.

Rules were not done to make the life of the student more difficult. They were only done because it was sounding harsh. And that is also true that something sounding hars in the 17th century is very well accepted today.


But Mike, we could discuss of it another time (in frotn of a beer, gonna be even better!), sorry to have put the thread in other way

Just to conclude: Cinebrass sounds great. New examples from pro sound great. That is the most important.


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## mikebarry (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzkSlLv8qho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2dJCtATZ9A&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2dJCtAT ... re=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrQ3N_FBBDQ

In my opinion John Williams sound is comprised of parrall triads - that is his bag baby. 



Not to mention the thousands of scores using power 5ths.


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## windshore (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Ha, Mike, I'm with you. Parallelism is used all the time. 

This part of the discussion is totally off-topic anyway. Hicks, you may have a narrower arena of style that you deal with in general. I agree with the idea that within a certain style (or styles) strong parralel intervals do sound harsh but they are indeed all around us today. (... and not just because of ignorance.)

Maybe it's hearing a small excerpt out of a larger context.

Anyway, back to the lib. I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing more examples!


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## jamwerks (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

You'll find 3 and 4 voice (thus parallel 5ths and octves) brass chords back as early as some Romantic composers (circa 1850-70) and plain octaves even earlier. And it's been common practice ever since. o=<


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 18, 2011)

So... um... what was the upshot there with regard to the divisi patch? Single playable instruments or chords?


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## Hicks (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

Poor Hicks, brought into a twister, following forums axiom (I feel being the new Jay Asher!).


Ok, go back some messages ago. My initial statement was not the parallel fiths pros and cons,

it was only:

I can hear a lot of parallel fith and octave in the example.
Ok, it make me wonder if the way of how cinebrass manages divisi is by using already made chord samples. Because by doing this it is really easy to create parallel fiths or octaves.
It's only an assumption (and a question).

The thread moved to a discussion on parallel movement following a statement by Mike telling that rules are dead which I don't agree. But whatever... He has his arguments, I have mine, nobody's right as it is only people point of views. it doesn't change my point of view on Cinebrass (which is a really positive point of view as mentioned several times).


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*



Hicks @ Tue Oct 18 said:


> Ok, it make me wonder if the way of how cinebrass manages divisi is by using already made chord samples. Because by doing this it is really easy to create parallel fiths or octaves.
> It's only an assumption (and a question).



Oh yeah, you're probably right there. I sorta hear how it's working (I think) - keyswitches for chord types in the left hand, finger to play the root note in the right. Thinking about it (me veeery slow this morning...) basic divisi for single instruments is, er, just the basic patch, isn't it?!! So there must be some extra trickery here and I think you've probably figured it out.

Wish someone would do this kind of thing for a big band library. I'm hopeless at Jazz voicings.


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## reddognoyz (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*



mikebarry @ Tue Oct 18 said:


> I've never heard anyone to have such an opinion but that is fine. I practice piano and listen to the classical repetoire all for hours a day and the 5ths don't ever bother me.
> I've pretty much abandoned anything my professors told me was a rule, because its not.
> 
> They are actually widely imployed by film composers - Goldsmith and Williams.



Osborne's quite fond of employing p5ths as well.


----------



## Cinesamples (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*



Hicks @ Mon Oct 17 said:


> The divisi sound is awesome!!!!
> 
> However (Ok I am a pain in the ass guy), the number of parrallel fiths and octaves I can hear make me doubt about the ay we can effectively use them.
> Are they chords and inversion like in cineorch?



To actually answer your question: yes, the patch is laid out in a cineorch way, three inversions per chord-type. So one could avoid parallel 5ths. (who would want to do that though?


----------



## reddognoyz (Oct 18, 2011)

(ozzy osborne)


----------



## noiseboyuk (Oct 18, 2011)

Intriguing - CineSamples on FB says "any 4 note chord is possible" with the patch.


----------



## mikebarry (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO!*

This chord divisi is very powerful and deserves a good explanation which will happen soon. I think the coolest thing is that we preserved the stacking/divisi per player. So the top note is played by the first horn the middle by the third. It keeps it in the sonic space very nicely.


----------



## Rob Elliott (Oct 18, 2011)

reddognoyz @ Tue Oct 18 said:


> (ozzy osborne)




Right O - if I can't mock up an orchestral version of 'smoke on the water' - I am not interested!!!

0oD


----------



## dedersen (Oct 19, 2011)

Tsk, tsk, that's Deep Purple not Black Sabbath. Know your rock history, Rob.


----------



## Rob Elliott (Oct 19, 2011)

dedersen @ Wed Oct 19 said:


> Tsk, tsk, that's Deep Purple not Black Sabbath. Know your rock history, Rob.




'fire in the sky'....may it rain down on my pin head sized cranium for the misstep. o 


(seriously makes me want to play an overdriven Hammond again. Not a VI)


----------



## Cinesamples (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!!*



Full walkthrough video of all the patches in CineBrass PRO.

The library is still hung up at Native Instruments. Can't wait to get it back from them. The site is ready to go once we do.


----------



## adg21 (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

Fantastic! Looking forward to pricing info


----------



## gsilbers (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

uuuuuuu..... 

12 horns.. thats more like it! =o o=< 

the mod wheel to "waiver" is great! 

rips and sfx combis are awesome to be able to custumize it to a track. 

upgrade price?


----------



## Udo (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

I noticed it includes features like those in CineOrch, so I presume owners of that product will get a discount when buying CineBrass PRO. :wink:


----------



## noiseboyuk (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

Looks terrific. It's hard to tell on non-HD youtube, but those legatos are sounding like a good compromise between 1.0 and 1.1 of the first version - that and the added dynamics are more important to me than anything else.

And cool new stuff too. Here's a feature request for Pro 1.1 (!) - for the chord patches, personally I'd love one layout of chords, but then use keyswitches to flip between major, minor, 7th etc. I know I used the K word, but anything that involves chords is by definition going to be artificial to play, and this way we can zip between everything much quicker and easier and stop running out of 88 notes! I'm not sure about inversions - I guess that could also work via keyswitches or one basic layout for everything.

Really sounding great though, lots of expressive possibilities with the p and solo stuff in particular - congrats to you.


----------



## shakuman (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

Amazing work Mike o=< Which midi controller did you use? any one..?

Shakuman.


----------



## dedersen (Nov 2, 2011)

Bloody hell! That's a lot of new (and amazing) content, much more than I had expected. I love the way you have approached the FX patches, those look incredibly useful. Can't wait to get my hands on this.


----------



## jamwerks (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

WOW, the sound is breath-taking. Nothing else I've heard even comes close.

The FX seem extremely well thought out. It's clear you guys know what you're doing. Don't think anyone won't want this puppy !! o-[][]-o 


What mic samples were you using on the video? Did you do the Bricasti sample thing again?


----------



## Ztarr (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

Sounds really fantastic.


----------



## Audio Genetics Lab (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*



noiseboyuk @ Tue Nov 01 said:


> And cool new stuff too. Here's a feature request for Pro 1.1 (!) - for the chord patches, personally I'd love one layout of chords, but then use keyswitches to flip between major, minor, 7th etc. I know I used the K word, but anything that involves chords is by definition going to be artificial to play, and this way we can zip between everything much quicker and easier and stop running out of 88 notes! I'm not sure about inversions - I guess that could also work via keyswitches or one basic layout for everything.



Even just as another mapping option, what about scripting such that you still play the full chord yourself, but it recognizes the inversion and tonality and just plays the appropriate sample? This would give you the benefit of a real chord recording with the familiar compositional process of, well, playing a chord. It always did mess my brain up a bit to have the same chord and voicing go from major to minor by moving 3 octaves up the keyboard.

Very much looking forward to CB Pro, congratulations on the great work M&M.


----------



## EwigWanderer (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

Fantastic!! o-[][]-o


----------



## Patrick_Gill (Nov 2, 2011)

Sounding superb guys!.


----------



## George Caplan (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

i like the sound and will get this. can you do the videos in 720 or 1080 HD please?


----------



## dedersen (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*



Audio Genetics Lab @ Wed Nov 02 said:


> Even just as another mapping option, what about scripting such that you still play the full chord yourself, but it recognizes the inversion and tonality and just plays the appropriate sample? This would give you the benefit of a real chord recording with the familiar compositional process of, well, playing a chord. It always did mess my brain up a bit to have the same chord and voicing go from major to minor by moving 3 octaves up the keyboard.



That is a brilliant idea! And should definitely be doable in Kontakt.


----------



## dfhagai (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

A brilliant idea indeed! and sounds pretty simple to accomplish...


----------



## Audio Genetics Lab (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

Yes, in theory simple. There are always snags that come up when programming that kind of thing, so it's hard to know for certain until put through the paces. 

The first tricky thing that comes to mind is figuring out the right timing window for chord recognition. You have to leave some wiggle room to capture the inexact pressing of multiple keys while still feeling responsive and quick. Better players or controllers may need less window, rusty players/controllers may need more. 

Then you have to figure out does the release start when the first note is released or at the full release of the chord. If you do full release, that opens up the fun option of holding the chord so long as any of the notes are still down, and changing the chord sample played if a single note is released and then a new note is introduced (while the other chord tones are still holding). That way you could move through inversions, tonalities, and pitch centers very smoothly without having to play the sustain pedal game, and your notation window view or midi transcriptions would also still look like music. Hmm.

Now I'm trying to think of a library to test this kind of script on in the meantime...


----------



## noiseboyuk (Nov 2, 2011)

Yes, an interesting idea but agree with Zem - it would be quite tricky to implement. Also it would be a little weird to play - you could play some chords but not others. It might work well, I just don't know....

The basic keyswitch option (which could also apply to CineOrch) should be a cinch though.


----------



## Mike Connelly (Nov 2, 2011)

I like the idea of keyswitches for major/minor/etc. What about ks for kind of chord and velocity for inversion? That would be more compact on the keyboard as well.


----------



## adg21 (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*



Audio Genetics Lab @ Wed Nov 02 said:


> Even just as another mapping option, what about scripting such that you still play the full chord yourself, but it recognizes the inversion and tonality and just plays the appropriate sample? This would give you the benefit of a real chord recording with the familiar compositional process of, well, playing a chord. It always did mess my brain up a bit to have the same chord and voicing go from major to minor by moving 3 octaves up the keyboard.



What a great idea!


----------



## mikebarry (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

Here is a little breakdown of the 4 note thing for horns:

-the chords are comprised of 4 notes, played by 4 individual horns in 4 individual spaces ( thus avoiding "organing") 
-not only have we done whatever is possible to preserve classical voice leading we have made it so that the top horn plays the top note, the second horn plays the next and so on and so forth, this yields a very pleasing realism 
-modwheel controls crossfading with Greg's special xfading concepts

For the low chords we have adapted the same concepts as cineorch.

One other cool thing was we added a sort of DIY chord maker.

We took the folks playing the Root and Fifth and had them play alone, while those who would play the 3rds remained tacet. Then we recorded the thirds by themselves whilst the other players remained tacet. So we ended up with an octave of empty 5ths and then an octave of "3rds". Thus you can make your own triad.

Take a Bb 5th and add the Eb to make a 4th suspension. Thus a fully voiced chord with voice leading preserved. Very handy.


----------



## nickhmusic (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

this is most extremely awesome.  Thank you for doing all this work - it's going to make the process of writing for brass so much more enjoyable.

I am looking forward to the purchase. o-[][]-o


----------



## gregjazz (Nov 2, 2011)

The thing that makes the one key chords really nice as opposed to a chord recognition, is that it's super easy to transition between--especially for non-keyboardists. Though, for the most part, even if you're very fast there's always going to be a small space while you switch chords/inversions. Having a single key play an entire chord/inversion makes it super easy to play smooth chordal passages.


----------



## Pochflyboy (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*



Audio Genetics Lab @ Wed Nov 02 said:


> what about scripting such that you still play the full chord yourself, but it recognizes the inversion and tonality and just plays the appropriate sample? This would give you the benefit of a real chord recording with the familiar compositional process of, well, playing a chord.



+1 to this idea though timing out the recognition of chords seems complicated and tedious!



mikebarry @ Wed Nov 02 said:


> One other cool thing was we added a sort of DIY chord maker.



This is gonna be extremely handy! The playability of your libraries is continuously setting a new standard in the industry! o-[][]-o 

-Joe


----------



## _taylor (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

Sounds really good guys! Congrats. o=<


----------



## adg21 (Nov 3, 2011)

gregjazz @ Thu Nov 03 said:


> The thing that makes the one key chords really nice as opposed to a chord recognition, is that it's super easy to transition between--especially for non-keyboardists. Though, for the most part, even if you're very fast there's always going to be a small space while you switch chords/inversions. Having a single key play an entire chord/inversion makes it super easy to play smooth chordal passages.


What about with sustain pedal though


----------



## noiseboyuk (Nov 3, 2011)

gregjazz @ Thu Nov 03 said:


> The thing that makes the one key chords really nice as opposed to a chord recognition, is that it's super easy to transition between--especially for non-keyboardists. Though, for the most part, even if you're very fast there's always going to be a small space while you switch chords/inversions. Having a single key play an entire chord/inversion makes it super easy to play smooth chordal passages.



And it works incredibly well. I think that's a huge part of why CineOrch is such a great product, so I agree with the problem of translating that accurately to a chord-detecting script. However, keyswitching should be unaffected, if the logic of the keyswitch is to affect the next played note / chord. If you want to move from, say, major to minor, hit the keyswitch and play the note again (or both simultaneously I guess) - should still be silky-smooth.

I'm sure v1.0 will be great, it was just the appearance of two separate instruments to handle all the chord types that made me think there could be a more elegant / playable solution to be had from the script-master!


----------



## deniz (Nov 3, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*



shakuman @ Wed Nov 02 said:


> Amazing work Mike o=< Which midi controller did you use? any one..?
> 
> Shakuman.



The Midi controller he used is a Peavy PC 1600X www.peavey.com

Hope it helps. 

btw. Cinebrass Pro sounds fantastic.


----------



## JohannesR (Nov 5, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*



jamwerks @ Wed Nov 02 said:


> What mic samples were you using on the video? Did you do the Bricasti sample thing again?



Is it just me who find the Bricasti idea a bit gimmicky? They sure sound good, but the major point in adding algorithmic reverb when you already have several mic positions would be to apply it to ALL the instruments (not just the brass) in order to make the samples gel better. Having real Bricasti samples on just the brass doesn´t help me at least.

Pro sounds really good judging from the videos. I was disappointed with the core library, so I really look forward to this one.


----------



## utopia (Nov 5, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*

Hey everyone (first post!) 
Can you guys explain if I'm getting this right? So the PRO features 4 dynamic layers for each of the legato soloists but the core library only has one for the whole group? Does that mean that after PRO is released we're stuck with much more expressive soloists than groups? I'm trying to understand this to decide if I want to get the bundle. Thanks


----------



## noiseboyuk (Nov 5, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*



utopia @ Sat Nov 05 said:


> Hey everyone (first post!)
> Can you guys explain if I'm getting this right? So the PRO features 4 dynamic layers for each of the legato soloists but the core library only has one for the whole group? Does that mean that after PRO is released we're stuck with much more expressive soloists than groups? I'm trying to understand this to decide if I want to get the bundle. Thanks



Hello Utopia, welcome aboard!

No, you're not quite right there. The original CineBrass has 3 layers for the ensembles, which works very well. The problem has been that the original soloists only have 1 layer, which is one area that Pro addresses. So with the Pro bundle, everything will be multi-layered.

Johannes - yeah, I kind of agree. Though I wouldn't use the word "gimmicky" as such, I too think having one tail overall makes more sense, rather than one just for brass. In general I find the mics on their own are fine anyway, and don't really need to put anything else on, sampled or otherwise.


----------



## Ed (Nov 5, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*



JohannesR @ Sat Nov 05 said:


> jamwerks @ Wed Nov 02 said:
> 
> 
> > What mic samples were you using on the video? Did you do the Bricasti sample thing again?
> ...



Not at all, unless you're a purist and need to have everything recorded in the same space and with the same reverb or you're OCD'ing up the wall. 

I think the Briscasti thing is a great idea, I wish they would do a cool mix for DOW2 and some of their other products for it as well.


----------



## utopia (Nov 5, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*



noiseboyuk @ Sat Nov 05 said:


> utopia @ Sat Nov 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello Utopia, welcome aboard!
> ...


Ok, thanks..that makes much more sense now 8) Thanks for the welcome.


----------



## shakuman (Nov 5, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples announces CineBrass PRO! WALKTHROUGH VIDEO!*



deniz @ Thu Nov 03 said:


> shakuman @ Wed Nov 02 said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing work Mike o=< Which midi controller did you use? any one..?
> ...



Many thanks deniz! o=<


----------



## Cinesamples (Nov 13, 2011)

Hi all, 

Update: Right now we are implementing all the revisions and enhancements that we found during the time CineBrass PRO was over at NI for 6 weeks for encoding. We just have to add these new scripts and revisions to the encoded patches, resubmit to NI, and get back the final release candidate library.

Submitting revisions to NI and getting it back is usually a 24 hour process, so that's good news.

The hope is that this initial release feels more like a 1.1 instead of a 1.0.

Also working on the website system for making this as streamlined as possible... especially for those current CineBrass CORE owners taking advantage of special PRO pricing.

Special thanks to our web guy Kolby Allen. Hire him. 

More info to come...


----------



## mikebarry (Nov 13, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO! Countdown begins!*

Here is a peak at the "Low Chords" Major patch. This time we will include the entire chordal voicings in the manual.

You can see the built in voice leading:

Some notes resolve up, some down. Nobody jumping dramatically.


----------



## MaestroRage (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO! Countdown begins!*

:D!!!


----------



## dannthr (Nov 14, 2011)

Will you guys include the voicings for the horn chords as well?


----------



## Cinesamples (Nov 14, 2011)

Yeah, we're going to explain how we did the 4 horns. Pretty neat method.

In other news, some folks requested this. A comparison chart of CORE and PRO. (We're almost there folks...) http://t.co/2fPF0J63


----------



## dcoscina (Nov 14, 2011)

Since we appear to be on the eve of the CineBrass Pro release, how's about giving us a ballpark figure for those current owners as far as upgrade pricing goes? Hey it never hurts to ask....er, or does it?


----------



## synthphonix (Nov 14, 2011)

dcoscina @ 2011-11-14 said:


> Hey it never hurts to ask....er, or does it?



Mike's in your neighborhood with a baseball bat lookin' for ya >8o


----------



## dcoscina (Nov 15, 2011)

Na, Mike wouldn't hurt a fellow Italian American. Besides I'm up in Toronto. Too far to commute with a baseball bat. And I know martial arts.


----------



## MichaelL (Nov 15, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO! Countdown begins!*

I keep checking here and on facebook, like a CineBrass junkie. :D


----------



## stonzthro (Nov 15, 2011)

Maybe it's actually a countdown to Christmas


----------



## smoothielova (Nov 15, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO! Countdown begins!*



MichaelL @ Tue Nov 15 said:


> I keep checking here and on facebook, like a CineBrass junkie. :D



Ditto. 8)


----------



## inmusi (Nov 16, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO! Countdown begins!*

From Cinesample's twitter:

"Okay we have a release date for CineBrass PRO! Should we announce or just surprise you? "


Announce!


----------



## dedersen (Nov 16, 2011)

Ooooh, so close now. I'm really curious about those bonus patches as well. A "MANLY a2 trumpet patch that will blow your horn" sounds...well, intriguing.


----------



## synthphonix (Nov 17, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO! Countdown begins!*

None of these Twitter shortcuts work for me ... just a blank page (about:blank)

t.co/...


----------



## Cinesamples (Nov 17, 2011)

......still waiting on Serial Codes from NI.


----------



## MichaelL (Nov 17, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO! Countdown begins!*

NI....MACH SCHNELL!!!!!!


----------



## Dominik Raab (Nov 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO! Countdown begins!*



MichaelL @ Thu 17 Nov said:


> NI....MACH SCHNELL!!!!!!



Achtung, Achtung! :D


----------



## ontrackmusic (Nov 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO! Countdown begins!*

We are the knights who say...NI!


----------



## Dominik Raab (Nov 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO! Countdown begins!*



ontrackmusic @ Fri 18 Nov said:


> We are the knights who say...NI!



Let's show up there in plate armor and with swords!


----------



## Cinesamples (Nov 18, 2011)

Serials back from NI! Release date for CineBrass PRO is Tuesday, November 22nd, 2011. Thanks for your patience everyone! Be sure to get your copy of CineBrass CORE before that date for maximum savings. (We may release earlier to those who already have CORE


----------



## noiseboyuk (Nov 18, 2011)

CineSamples @ Fri Nov 18 said:


> Serials back from NI! Release date for CineBrass PRO is Tuesday, November 22nd, 2011. Thanks for your patience everyone! Be sure to get your copy of CineBrass CORE before that date for maximum savings. (We may release earlier to those who already have CORE



Wowzers! So when you say "release earlier for those who already have CORE"... does that mean that we'll get that all-important price information earlier too?!


----------



## marcotronic (Nov 18, 2011)

CineSamples @ Fri Nov 18 said:


> Serials back from NI! Release date for CineBrass PRO is Tuesday, November 22nd, 2011. Thanks for your patience everyone! Be sure to get your copy of CineBrass CORE before that date for maximum savings. (We may release earlier to those who already have CORE



Awesome! I already have CORE and earlier is NOW 8) :lol: - give us a happy weekend  o=? o=< 

Marco


----------



## Ryan Scully (Nov 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO coming Tues Nov 22nd!*

Sweet!!! So glad I already have CORE :D :D :D


----------



## dannthr (Nov 18, 2011)

Reminds me that I need to go work out on my CORE!


----------



## james7275 (Nov 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO coming Tues Nov 22nd!*

yeah can us core users have Pro for the weekend? :D


----------



## Ryan Scully (Nov 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO coming Tues Nov 22nd!*



james7275 @ Fri Nov 18 said:


> yeah can us core users have Pro for the weekend? :D




LIKE :D


----------



## windshore (Nov 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO coming Tues Nov 22nd!*



james7275 @ 11/18/2011 said:


> yeah can us core users have Pro for the weekend? :D



Yeah, we need some time to work the new patches into out templates!


----------



## Cinesamples (Nov 18, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO coming Tues Nov 22nd!*

New video for you while you wait:


----------



## noiseboyuk (Nov 18, 2011)

Cool video - with everyone at RC throwing in specific requests, that can't be bad!

(*cough* nerdy dubbing mixer alert - the bed cuts off at 2'07 *cough*)


----------



## marcotronic (Nov 19, 2011)

Great video - I very much enjoyed Michael Levine´s conducting style  What a cool guy.

Marco


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Nov 19, 2011)

marcotronic @ Sat Nov 19 said:


> Great video - I very much enjoyed Michael Levine´s conducting style  What a cool guy.
> 
> Marco



Michael is indeed a very cool guy and a great musician., He is, of course, a Logic user however and I am tired of helping him out for free :evil: 

Michael, just kidding, if you read this.


----------



## Vision (Nov 20, 2011)

(We may release earlier to those who already have CORE :)[/quote said:


> Seriously though, that would be cool if you guys released it Monday for current core users. I'm going out of town tuesday for a week, for the whole thanksgiving spend time with family thing. Monday would be a convenient, so I could at least play with it.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is, please release this early for my own purely selfish reasons. 8)


----------



## Rob Elliott (Nov 21, 2011)

*Re: Cinesamples CineBrass PRO coming Tues Nov 22nd!*

Hey Mikes - any update on this for Core owners?


----------



## Cinesamples (Nov 21, 2011)

RELEASED!!
http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrass/


----------



## mikebarry (Nov 21, 2011)

Woo Hoo! _-) _-) _-) _-) _-)


----------



## Farkle (Nov 21, 2011)

It is LIVE!!

Who-hoo!! Thanks, Mike, and Mike!! Picking it up after Thanksgiving... WOOT!

- Another Mike


----------



## Ryan Scully (Nov 21, 2011)

Downloading!!! What a fantastic deal for previous CORE owners - you guys are amazing!!


----------



## dannthr (Nov 21, 2011)

Early adopter here...


----------



## MichaelJM (Nov 21, 2011)

Awesome.

I know what I'm digging into on Thanksgiving.

Thanks guys!


----------



## marcotronic (Nov 21, 2011)

Yeah!!! Bought! 

What a huge download! 

Marco


----------



## noiseboyuk (Nov 21, 2011)

Wow - anyone else thrown into an indecisive mess?! No question - it's a good price and absolutely more than fair for what we're getting. But - especially for Europeans with VAT to pay - it doesn't quite fall into the "no brainer" category either as perhaps we were unrealistically hoping. And so the mental turmoil begins - "well, I have Core and it's fantastic and it will do me for the majority of uses as it is / yeah but the legatos still aren't quite right for me / love the company, totally support their union stance" - repeat until January 1, probably!

Really keen to hear from anyone with Core who still struggles with the legatos sometimes and now has Pro for an A/B comparison.

Congrats on the release, guys - let the demos begin!


----------



## dedersen (Nov 22, 2011)

The price seems fair, I am quite disappointed that the offer for core owners is time limited though. I was never under the impression that would be the case. Not sure if I will be able to grab pro before next year and then the benefit of being an early core owner is gone...:(


----------



## MaestroRage (Nov 22, 2011)

I am also kind of torn guy. Not quite the no brainer as I was also hoping for.


----------



## Danny_Owen (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm really surprised you guys (M&M) don't hire some of the big guns to do demos for you. I'm sure it'd help you shift product quicker!

Also quite torn, need to hear the legatos (particularly on the 6 FH). The new legatos for solo instruments I thought actually sounded pretty good from the video demos, but has anything further happened with the old ones? The pricing point is interesting..!


----------



## noiseboyuk (Nov 22, 2011)

dedersen @ Tue Nov 22 said:


> The price seems fair, I am quite disappointed that the offer for core owners is time limited though. I was never under the impression that would be the case. Not sure if I will be able to grab pro before next year and then the benefit of being an early core owner is gone...:(



Maybe the Mikes will confirm long-term, but what we're getting right now is two reductions at once - $100 introductory discount, which new owners can also get if they buy a bundle - and only a pretty modest $50 core-owner's discount. Hopefully the latter one will continue going forwards.

I still think I'll probably go for it in the end - I listened again to the competition and either the sound or Other Factors v3.0.25 are as off-putting as ever. Need to stew a little more first.


----------



## dedersen (Nov 22, 2011)

Yeah, I am just a bit bummed about paying more than new customers if I wait until next year. This is pretty standard for upgrades, but the discussion leading up to the release had me thinking it would be different it this case. :(

I can see the difficulties the Mikes are facing, though. They would have to log current core owners to ensure that new buyers don't get the discount, which I guess could be one reason for the time limit.

EDIT: What we need is a "buy now - pay later" option.


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## Resoded (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm positively surprised by the price. The library is twice the size of the core library and I honestly thought they'd charge more. 

I agree though that it's not a no brainer. I think I'll wait for a bit to consider how much I'd be using the effects etc. Though the fluttered notes and FX 2 really makes my trigger finger itchy.


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## IFM (Nov 22, 2011)

I don't know myself. I was expecting a lower core owner price discount too. I will wait and see what initial users think.
Chris


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## DocMidi657 (Nov 22, 2011)

I am disappointed by the pricing as well. I expected it to be better for the early adopters of the initial library.


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## MichaelL (Nov 22, 2011)

Yeah, definitely not a no-brainer. 

Because the difference is only $150 and it's time-limited, I'll see what I can accomplish with the core library and the other brass libraries that I already have.

When the core deal expires, it'll be a toss up between CB Pro and HB Gold on price. 
Maybe I'd go for the best of both worlds combo.

I understand though. Core owners probably represent the majority of likely CB Pro buyers. If you sell to your largest group of customers at a drastically reduced price you shoot yourself in the foot.


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## synthnut (Nov 22, 2011)

My feelings are mixed with this offer .....I'm glad that it's out, and happy that there is a lot of content and commend Cinesamples for this !!! ......What makes me sad is the fact that I just got my computer built, and recently bought the core program for $399 thinking that I had some time to purchase the Pro at a substatial discount as an early adopter ..... Now I see that as an early adopter , I am only saving $50 BUT , I have to purchase before the end of the year !!..... It's funny in a way because , I have said many times about pricing " if the sale price is not listed up front , you can't afford it " ....Either that , or there is some kind of a catch to the pricing .... For some reason I guess I expected more from the folks at Cinesamples, like at a minimum extend the offer to core owners ..... I think I'll wait on this and see how others make out with the new addition..... I'm not the guy with blind faith anymore, especially with no examples of he new library .... :?: ......Jim


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## Stevie (Nov 22, 2011)

dedersen @ 22nd November 2011 said:


> The price seems fair, I am quite disappointed that the offer for core owners is time limited though. I was never under the impression that would be the case. Not sure if I will be able to grab pro before next year and then the benefit of being an early core owner is gone...:(



I concur


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## pablo1980 (Nov 22, 2011)

I don´t want to bash either, but I hoped to have a little more time to buy pro, given I just bought Core. 

Can we get an extension on the grace period pretty pleaaaaase?


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## windshore (Nov 22, 2011)

Maybe I missed something, but where is the reg Trumpet Ensemble patch in Pro?

I've got solo trumpets and mutes, but the reg patch?

noticed some studio noise on the solo trumpet on G4. Solo trumpet dramatically improved from core


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## dcoscina (Nov 22, 2011)

I guess my only observation is that when someone like CineSamples is working so long and so hard on their product, and know how much work and expense went into it, they come out thinking this upgrade price is really really excellent. I understand that. We, as consumers, don't have that intimate knowledge of the whole process- we're end users and can only compare based on similar product pricing. 

I don't want to rain on the Mikes' parade because it's clear a lot of blood sweat and tears went into the development of this library. But I also hope they can understand why more than a few of us aren't quite as euphoric about the pricing as they may have expected us to be.


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## windshore (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, guys, I can only speak from my own perspective. I was disappointed with "core" so I figured upgrading is the best way to get value out of the money I spent initially. So far in auditioning, this is pretty impressive... There will need to be tweaks, and I'm stumped about the reg Trumpet artic patch,... but maybe the mike's will explain...


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## james7275 (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, the big day has finally arrived and I'm a little bummed myself. They said Core Users would get 'very special treatment' but 349 seems a bit steep. I figured the price would be below three hundred dollars maybe $249 for core owners. I'm guessing they were thinking of giving us a bigger discount at first, but in the end with all the costs involved coudn't do it. So i'm pretty torn myself right now on what to do.

I also didn't realize the discount is only good for a limited time , I think current users should have that option always.


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## windshore (Nov 22, 2011)

ok, well, no improvement to trumpet artic ensembles. I guess I should have looked more closely at the details... HUGE disappointment!

boy, I guess I'm an idiot. no new artic ensemble patches for horns or bones either. I thought this was an obvious area for improvement as soft short artics don't actually sound like they were played soft. OY!


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## Danny_Owen (Nov 22, 2011)

Oh really? that is a bit disappointing, I thought at one point they'd mentioned 'boring stuff like extra dynamic layers and repetitions etc' or something like that.

Have you guys who have it running found out what the 'bonus patches' that use samples from both libraries are yet?


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## Danny_Owen (Nov 22, 2011)

I also pulled the trigger on this a few hours ago, not everything has downloaded yet, but the patch list has.

I've noticed that there don't seem to be any of the aforementioned 'bonus patches'. Maybe that has something to do with the extra dynamics and articulations. We really need the Mikes to chime in here.


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## windshore (Nov 22, 2011)

Bonus patches are just FX and chords I guess


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## Danny_Owen (Nov 22, 2011)

That's not how it reads at all, as they list the FX and chords in the patch list, and then say there are extra bonus things. I'm sure something is missing here.


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## Cinesamples (Nov 22, 2011)

Hi all,

Heard you on the date extension idea... thinking about it.

Food for thought: CineBrass PRO ($349) cost 10X more to produce than Hollywoodwinds ($299).

CineBrass CORE ($399)= 8GB library
CineBrass PRO Expansion ($499 reg.)= 20GB library
CineBrass Bundle = 28GB

Inside scoop: We had the price set at $599 for PRO internally for quite some time prior to release.

Anyway, looking forward to hearing demos!


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## Cinesamples (Nov 22, 2011)

Bonus patches that use samples from both libraries are coming in a free update, bonus sample content as well. We have to get those finished encoding by NI.


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## Danny_Owen (Nov 22, 2011)

Great, thanks for clarifying.


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## windshore (Nov 22, 2011)

Danny_Owen @ 11/22/2011 said:


> Great, thanks for clarifying.


+1


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 22, 2011)

In their defense, its obvious to me that an incredible amount of thought and foresight went into this release. So before we end up carrying the Mikes off to the hanging tree with pitch forks raised, one observation of the most significant changes is in regards to True Legato. In the core library, basic true legato comprised 1 mf dynamic layer whereas the pro library true legato comprises 4 dynamic layers (pp to fff). This applies to Trumpet solo, Horn solo, Bone solo, Tuba Solo, Horns 12 member ensembles. Core library horn ensembles have 6 horns versus pro's 12 horns which also includes chord divisi in CineOrch fashion. 

Another point is how often Cinesamples has stepped up with fixes, updates, additions etc in the past - perhaps more so than other developers. They do listen carefully and again they do step up quite often as a matter of fact. That said, this is only version 1.0.0 of the Cinebrass Pro release. Therefore, I'm sure you'll carry on with the dissertations but as for me, I'm going to cut them a little slack because aside from making great products, here are two of our own who have proven to be really great guys dedicated in bringing to light some really super libraries.


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## mikebarry (Nov 22, 2011)

Any lower price then this would have been disrespectful to the musicians and that is the heart of the matter. This price will be locked in for a year. We don't have sales every few days.


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## dedersen (Nov 22, 2011)

Would you consider making the offer for early adopters permanent, though? As it stands, I see myself eventually paying more for the bundle than new customers. I think the current offer for core owners is excellent, by the way, so no complaint there. Just surprised that there is atime limit to it.


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## Resoded (Nov 22, 2011)

CineSamples @ 22nd November 2011 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Heard you on the date extension idea... thinking about it.
> 
> ...



Yeah as I said earlier, I found the pricing as a happy surprise. 599 usd was more in line of my expectations of a library more than twice the size of core.

I'm pretty sure I'll be getting cb pro very soon, hopefully before the limited offer runs out.

I can't agree more with Frederick, the price is not only for the product but also for the service.


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## dannthr (Nov 22, 2011)

It's a great release, I hear where tweaks will probably need to be addressed further on down the road, but as it stands, it's a great release.

I am really happy to support the AFM in this manner as well since I rarely have the budget to support them by hiring them.


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## Ryan Scully (Nov 22, 2011)

I am completely thankful for the CORE owner's discount price. I honestly was expecting it to be at least $400(what we paid for CORE at release) and I would have been completely thankful at that price as well. For almost double the size in content and features, $350(for prior CORE owners) is an incredible deal and certainly Mike & Mike are beyond generous for offering it to us at that price. With all the factors surrounding the production of this library(players, venue, expanded features and content, etc.) on so many levels, I for one had no issues with the purchase what so ever. I downloaded it over night and it is going to take me days, if not weeks to get through all the new content. Cinesamples are a class act.


Ryan :D


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## adg21 (Nov 22, 2011)

I hope they extend the time limit. I also think at $900 (full) they might need to look at what people in higher education are offered for Hollywood Brass. Fair enough if they want to keep it professional/commercial use only library though. But generally, $350 is around what I expected (well I actually guessed $299 + VAT).


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## playz123 (Nov 22, 2011)

Frederick Russ @ Tue Nov 22 said:


> Another point is how often Cinesamples has stepped up with fixes, updates, additions etc in the past - perhaps more so than other developers.



With respect to all concerned, I don't agree with this statement. Some things do indeed get fixed or added to eventually, but some do not. If we apply your statement to companies like Spectrasonics though, I couldn't agree more. Anyway, since this thread is a celebration of Cinesamples new release, I don't wish to 'rain on anyone's parade', so I'll stop here.


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## Ed (Nov 22, 2011)

I think the price over all is fine, but to only offer $150 off for the "core" users, and then only for about a month just isnt exciting to me. I know Im not going to get it if thats the case, I'd rather get Hollywood Brass when I can. I also still have my 25% off coupon I got for preordering Spitfire Albion I can use *whenever*!

I'd love to support real musicians, but I have to think of myself first.


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## MichaelL (Nov 22, 2011)

My "core" issue is the time limitation.

No arguments with the price for the value received. 

It's just not in my budget until 2012.


Michael


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## synthnut (Nov 22, 2011)

I think that for the most part , we who have bought into the core library expect the consideration that we thought that we were being extended with buying in early as in being early adopters .... I don't think that anyone is complaining at all with the content, nor are they disputing the talents of the players, and I would go as far as saying that they more than respect the fact that Union players were paid for their time ..... I really think that the problem at hand is more the fact that Pro has to be bought by the end of the year to be able to reap ANY benefit ..... I also think that any consideration that can be given , especially for those of us who have already bought the core library early, would be not only a benefit to the customer , but to the company too !!.....Jim


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## Cinesamples (Nov 22, 2011)

To make the holidays more comfortable we've decided all persons who purchased CineBrass CORE prior to today can get CineBrass PRO for $349, forever. No time limitation.


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## dcoscina (Nov 22, 2011)

CineSamples @ Tue Nov 22 said:


> To make the holidays more comfortable we've decided all persons who purchased CineBrass CORE prior to today can get CineBrass PRO for $349, forever. No time limitation.



Thanks guys. This is a very cool development. 

-CB Core user.


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## gregjazz (Nov 22, 2011)

The core library owners are essentially getting the Pro version at 30% OFF. Seems like a pretty nice upgrade discount if you ask me, especially considering that you're getting 20 GB of content and some pretty awesome detailed patches.


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## MichaelL (Nov 22, 2011)

CineSamples @ Tue Nov 22 said:


> To make the holidays more comfortable we've decided all persons who purchased CineBrass CORE prior to today can get CineBrass PRO for $349, forever. No time limitation.




Thank you.


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## Ed (Nov 22, 2011)

Problem solved 

Now we can get to the fun part moaning about wanting more demos.


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## dedersen (Nov 22, 2011)

CineSamples @ Tue Nov 22 said:


> To make the holidays more comfortable we've decided all persons who purchased CineBrass CORE prior to today can get CineBrass PRO for $349, forever. No time limitation.



You guys are ridiculously awesome.


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## Justus (Nov 22, 2011)

CineSamples @ Tue Nov 22 said:


> To make the holidays more comfortable we've decided all persons who purchased CineBrass CORE prior to today can get CineBrass PRO for $349, forever. No time limitation.



Nice move! Thank You! 
o-[][]-o


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## khollister (Nov 22, 2011)

As I said in the other thread - great gesture, Mike.

Since I was one of the ones kinda complaining, I decided to put my money where my mouth is and I just ordered CBP.

Downloading as we speak.

BTW, you need to talk with Fastspring - I get crazy slow speeds at night downloading your stuff from them. Same thing happened with CB. I'm on a 40Mbps connection and am only getting 200-400 kBs right now. If I were to do this tomorrow AM, I would likely get 2+ MBs. Just ran Speedtest and am getting 37 Mbps (4.6 MBs) right now on my connection. Fastspring seems to be very bandwidth limited.


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## Stevie (Nov 22, 2011)

AFAIK it's Amazon S3


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 22, 2011)

Mikes - nice move. Good enough for me to order - just on principle. I want you guys around a LONG time!


BTW - I concur on the DL speeds - at 200k/mb at the moment (15 MB/sec speeds from provider)


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## khollister (Nov 22, 2011)

Stevie @ Tue Nov 22 said:


> AFAIK it's Amazon S3



You're correct - just went snooping around on Fastspring's site. While they have their own infrastructure for the store functionality, they rely on Amazon S3 for downloads.

I have 3 threads running right now for CBP - 244, 306 & 269 kBs. - Pathetic


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## mikebarry (Nov 22, 2011)

The server is Amazon S3 - which AFAIK is one of the leading comercial options. It's not done through fast spring server's but directly through Amazon. 

Downloads are guaranteed for life - if anyone has a problem you can email us or message me at mwbbwmjr on ichat.

Happy hunting.


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 22, 2011)

Mikes - down to 50k/mb sec - .


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## Danny_Owen (Nov 22, 2011)

I've just finished downloading and so far it sounds pretty good, will put it more through it's paces tomorrow 

I have a question though- on the patch overview video, when talking about the horn chords it said that there were major, minor, diminished and augmented, then the 7ths. I can't find any diminished or augmented, just wondering what's going on with that? At the moment I can only find the 3 different inversions of major and minor triads, and the maj7, min7, and half diminished chords. This may have just been a mistake in the commentary on the video, but just thought it was worth pointing out.

That said, what IS there sounds lovely, and will be a valuable addition I think.


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## Stevie (Nov 22, 2011)

I have always had problems with S3 servers, when the upload was based in the US.
Apparently 260 kb/s is the magic number. I can never get beyond that.


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## synthnut (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks guys for your time and consideration ....It is very much appreciated and has surely knocked me off the fence and will have me purchasing Pro just as soon as I possibly can ...... I'm a lot happier with my purchase of the core library knowing that I can complete the library at a great cost advantage ....Again , Thank You ....Sincerely, Jim


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## dannthr (Nov 22, 2011)

Oh holy mother of trumpets,

Putting the Core Legato Solo Trumpet in Unison with the Pro Legato Solo Trumpet = Pure Patriotic Heaven.


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## windshore (Nov 22, 2011)

moving post


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## dannthr (Nov 22, 2011)

It's okay, Windshore, but it feels like it should be in its own thread and not in CS's announcement thread.


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## windshore (Nov 22, 2011)

you're right, I'm taking down


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## mikebarry (Nov 22, 2011)

you guys can post what you wish, it is only inappropriate when other companies enter the argument.

Dan - i've been using the two solo horns in that matter and it is really a nice thing to hear. Sounds like Saving Private Ryan.


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## mikebarry (Nov 22, 2011)

Here is one of the first user demos:

http://www.box.com/s/hq9jhqkp79dkq3tskxmr


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## RiffWraith (Nov 22, 2011)

dannthr @ Wed Nov 23 said:


> It's okay, Windshore, but it feels like it should be in its own thread and not in CS's announcement thread.



Short audio ex., por favor?


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## Vision (Nov 22, 2011)

mikebarry @ Tue Nov 22 said:


> Here is one of the first user demos:
> 
> http://www.box.com/s/hq9jhqkp79dkq3tskxmr



Nice. That's a very rich sound. Man.. can't wait to get back home saturday. Dying to set up a template, and play with this library. You have no idea..


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## Christian Marcussen (Nov 23, 2011)

mikebarry @ Tue Nov 22 said:


> Here is one of the first user demos:
> 
> http://www.box.com/s/hq9jhqkp79dkq3tskxmr



Nice space


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## IFM (Nov 23, 2011)

Excellent news for us core users, thank you! That demo was nice, but I found I like CB even better when I apply an additional space. I tried it with my shot of TODD-AO in Space Designer...just subtle enough to give it a little more depth and man it sounds insanely good...makes you cry! CBP it is then as soon as I can.

Chris


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## dcoscina (Nov 23, 2011)

The brass at the beginning of this example is absolutely gorgeous. Totally amazing.


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 23, 2011)

Hey Mikes,

When I unpack 'instruments' I only see 'instruments' - no 'multi' or 'documentation' folders? (like installation video).

I have DL this twice and still the same. Can you help?


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## khollister (Nov 23, 2011)

Rob Elliott @ Wed Nov 23 said:


> Hey Mikes,
> 
> When I unpack 'instruments' I only see 'instruments' - no 'multi' or 'documentation' folders? (like installation video).
> 
> I have DL this twice and still the same. Can you help?



Same here - I downloaded the manual separately from the link on the delivery email, but I also have no multis (assuming there are supposed to be some)

Interesting that while the video does show the Multis folder and the installed library shows a multis tab in Kontakt, the written install instructions do not (matches what we have).


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## Cinesamples (Nov 23, 2011)

We will have nice multis in the future updates.


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## handz (Nov 23, 2011)

Vision @ Wed Nov 23 said:


> mikebarry @ Tue Nov 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is one of the first user demos:
> ...



Sounds really really nice! Im surprised that many people are so dissapointed about the price, the core lib was extremely cheap and considering what is added the price is just OK (only the 4layer legato instead 1layer is worht a fortune)


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## khollister (Nov 23, 2011)

CineSamples @ Wed Nov 23 said:


> We will have nice multis in the future updates.



Got it - great.

You might want to put a note in the delivery email that the installation video shows multis that are not currently shipping as part of the product. Probably eliminate more questions in the future.

The library does sound great, BTW (not that anyone really had any doubts about that).


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## stonzthro (Nov 23, 2011)

Nice demo! Thank you Mikes for extending the initial core offer - I will move on it when finances allow.


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## dannthr (Nov 25, 2011)

Mikes, I know you guys are super busy, but I think I missed the link for the manual and a listing of the chord voicings.


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