# Copyrighting for library work



## Soundhound (Apr 9, 2014)

Everything you send to a library should be copyrighted I'm assuming. Since working with libraries involved a lot of separate pieces, how do you do it? Can you batch copyright, send a whole group of pieces together and pay just the one fee, or do you have to copyright everything separately? 

thanks all!


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## RiffWraith (Apr 9, 2014)

Everything _you write _should be copyrighted... ie - registered with the copyright office.

Not sure where you are, but in the USA, you can send in a bunch of tracks at once and copyright them as a compilation. Not sure of the copyright laws elsewhere.

Cheers.


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## Soundhound (Apr 9, 2014)

I'm in the U.S. (L.A.) and yes I think I remember copyrighting things together...? Will have a look, thanks.


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Apr 9, 2014)

You don't have to do anything to get your intellectual property protected by copyright laws and international treaties & conventions.

By the way, the word 'copyrighting' is a misleading term and might not even be a real verb (and even if it's a real verb, then I would say it is an intransitive, anticausative verb that shouldn't be used this way).

What you probably want to know, is how to register your work to facilitate licensing and to make it easier to prove that you are the author of a particular work. There's a huge amount of information available on the internet about this. But maybe it's a good idea to acquire some basic legal knowledge first, cause it could help you decide what to do in all kinds of situations. If you plan to start a business, you need to have some legal knowledge, just like you need to know a thing or two about money.

Anyway, the US Copyright Office also does registrations of works by authors outside the USA, as far as I know. You could have a look at their website if you like (copyright.gov).

Hope this helps.

- Jerome


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## AC986 (Apr 10, 2014)

Jerome Vonhogen @ Wed Apr 09 said:


> By the way, the word 'copyrighting' is a misleading term and might not even be a real verb (and even if it's a real verb, then I would say it is an intransitive, anticausative verb that shouldn't be used this way).
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> - Jerome



Uhhhhh. Yes. Thank you Jerome!


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## RiffWraith (Apr 10, 2014)

I read your entire post, but...



Jerome Vonhogen @ Thu Apr 10 said:


> You don't have to do anything to get your intellectual property protected by copyright laws and international treaties & conventions.



Yes, you *do* have to register your work if you ever need to file suit for a copyright infringement claim. Walking into court and saying, "your honor, copyright is granted as soon as the work is created" will not cut it.

Cheers.


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## windshore (Apr 10, 2014)

RiffWraith @ 4/10/2014 said:


> I read your entire post, but...
> 
> Yes, you *do* have to register your work if you ever need to file suit for a copyright infringement claim. Walking into court and saying, "your honor, copyright is granted as soon as the work is created" will not cut it.
> 
> Cheers.



This is not true. He's right, you're protected. Registering is just another level of protection.


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## RiffWraith (Apr 10, 2014)

windshore @ Thu Apr 10 said:


> This is not true.



What's not true? That you don't need to walk into a courtroom with a document from the copyright office? Of course you do.


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Apr 10, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Thu Apr 10 said:


> What's not true? That you don't need to walk into a courtroom with a document from the copyright office? Of course you do.



No, you don't. If you do have such document, it will be easier to prove that you are the author of an original work protected by copyright law, but it doesn't necessarily have to come to this, for instance when the infringing party doesn't deny your allegations of copyright infringement. The only thing a document from the copyright office does is that it shifts the burden of proof. It doesn't even guarantee that you will win your case.

No offense, but this is just basic knowledge.
8) 

- Jerome Vonhögen


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## gsilbers (Apr 10, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Thu Apr 10 said:


> windshore @ Thu Apr 10 said:
> 
> 
> > This is not true.
> ...



if you have to walk into a court room for a copyright dispute.. then you already lost... and the lawyers won. :mrgreen:


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## RiffWraith (Apr 10, 2014)

Jerome Vonhogen @ Thu Apr 10 said:


> No, you don't.



Yes you do. I recommend that you talk to an attorney.

Cheers.


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Apr 10, 2014)

gsilbers @ Thu Apr 10 said:


> RiffWraith @ Thu Apr 10 said:
> 
> 
> > windshore @ Thu Apr 10 said:
> ...



Sorry, that's not true either... :oops: 

Registration of an original work that is protected by law (and/or international treaties) is a way to help the author of that work defend himself against copyright infringement, not against copyright claims that would state that you are the infringing party.

This is about claiming your rights as an author versus those who infringe on your copyright. This does not guarantee anything, though. Even a document from the Copyright Office won't magically turn your case into a winning case, but it does shift the burden of proof to the defending (infringing) party, at least in the USA.

However, you should never assume that this will be enough to claim victory, because even if the defending party doesn't deny the validity of your document, his or her lawyer could try to deny the infringement itself by claiming that the defending party didn't infringe on your rights at all. If for instance, the defending party has published a piece of music that is very similar to your (registered) piece, then the lawyer could try to deny the similarity of the pieces, by introducing some hard-core music theory to the court, along with some clever harmonic analysis, etc.

It is also possible that after you decide to sue someone, you think you have a strong case, until the defending party shows his own document from some other copyright registration institute, saying that he is the author of the piece. If you're unlucky, his document could even be older than yours, which might lead to a counterclaim by your opponent. :cry: 

My advise would be: stay out of the court room at all cost!
Even if you win, you will probably have lost a lot of money which has to be compensated somehow. To make this even more dramatic, your opponent might not be able to pay for your damages, so you could still end up empty handed despite a victory...

Scary stuff!

- Jerome Vonhögen


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Apr 10, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Thu Apr 10 said:


> Yes you do. I recommend that you talk to an attorney.


Actually, I did, when I was teaching them copyright law at the university, a couple of years ago.

- Jerome Vonhögen


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## gsilbers (Apr 10, 2014)

Jerome Vonhogen @ Thu Apr 10 said:


> gsilbers @ Thu Apr 10 said:
> 
> 
> > RiffWraith @ Thu Apr 10 said:
> ...




exactly. you just validated my point!


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## guydoingmusic (Apr 10, 2014)

I won a copyright dispute over a piece that I co-wrote with 2 other people. The 3rd person that wrote 2 lines of a verse had his publishing company file copyright and published the song with him as the sole writer. The other writer and myself neither one had filed any paperwork with the copyright office, nor had either of us registered this piece with ASCAP/BMI.

One phone call was made and the dispute was resolved. They signed the papers and it was over. 

According to my publisher (who is a very renowned writer/publisher), 99.9% of disputes are settled outside of court when it comes to ownership of writing. This guy filed for the copyright - Had the copyright papers from the US Government - Still lost. I realize that every case doesn't go this smooth. I'm just saying it is possible to not file for copyright on a song and still retain all your rights.


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## JohnG (Apr 10, 2014)

I think some people are talking past each other, but never mind. It's hard to be both thorough and succinct on a forum.

Libraries that require exclusivity may also insist on owning the copyright, so in that case it might be useful to find out whether they plan to register it so there's not a lot of confusion or bad tempers if the composer registers the work. Even if one does not retain copyright, one typically has to represent that the work is original and does not infringe on anyone else's music, so one wants to be sure that the library is taking precautions if the composer does not register it. 

I guess I don't really know how prevalent suits are. A relatively recent one that became famous was over the Men at Work song, "Down Under." 

Again, I am not even an armchair expert, but I would guess that it takes a pretty enormous hit / publicity to attract lawsuits. As Jerome says, it's very expensive both to bring and defend and a clear, favourable ruling can be surprisingly elusive. I would think that, as a result, suits are only considered worthwhile when a great deal of money is at stake.

Down Under article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/0 ... 99708.html


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Apr 10, 2014)

gsilbers @ Thu Apr 10 said:


> Jerome Vonhogen @ Thu Apr 10 said:
> 
> 
> > gsilbers @ Thu Apr 10 said:
> ...



True! (lol) I didn't realize you were actually saying the same thing. :D 

- Jerome


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## MichaelL (Apr 15, 2014)

Yikes! I can see that it's time for an attorney from the US to comment.

Under US law a creator of a work owns the copyright to that work, once it is in a fixed and tangible medium, for example, when you write your composition onto paper or record it.

From that moment on the copyright belongs to you, and there is a bundle of rights to which you, the author, are entitled.

Registering a copyright *is not *a suit of armor that protects you from infringement. It neither proves that you are the author, nor does it prove that you did not infringe another's work. Hence, the example of the person who registered the copyright and still lost the suit.

In the US, copyright infringement claims must be filed in federal court. They cannot be filed in state courts. There are several requirements for filing a copyright claim in federal court. 
First, you *must* have a registered copyright, which attorneys generally refer to as your "ticket" to federal court. So, Jerome, in the US copyright registration is a fundamental procedural first step, without which nothing else can happen.

Next, you must meet the federal jurisdictional threshold of damages, to get into federal which, the last time I checked was $75,000. With a damage threshold of $75,000, I would guess that 99% of all library music would never sustain damages sufficient to get into federal court. Could you really imagine paying an attorney $500 an hour to sue somebody to recover money that they got for a placement on Honey Boo Boo, for a cue that sounded like yours? 

Because of these harsh realities, back in 2006 the copyright office took up the idea of starting a copyright "small claims" court. To date, however, to the best of my knowledge, no such court exists.

Considering all of the above, would I say that registering your copyrights is waste of time? No!
You never know, when some very wealthy person might have success with your music. :-D

Be careful registering as a compilation. That is best if the works are unpublished, or you are the publisher, because you are registering multiple works *under one number.* If want to sell the copyrights to one, but not all, of those works it gets complicated and would require re-registering the works individually. 

Check with your own counsel.

_Michael


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## wst3 (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi Michael - that was one of the most succinct, and clear posts on US copyrights in 2014 I've read. Well done. Heck, I'll even lay off the lawyer jokes for a week as my way of saying thanks!


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## proxima (Apr 15, 2014)

I suspect music libraries are somewhat analogous to academic journals, though someone who has actually submitted to a music library is more than welcome to chime in. With an academic journal, you never register the copyright to your paper yourself: you (typically) sign your rights to the article over to the journal. The journal then holds the copyright to each issue, and is free to register that copyright. Registering it first would just be an unnecessary hassle. I suppose there's a level of trust (reputations are worth more than any article) between author and journal that may not exist between musician and library company.


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## MichaelL (Apr 16, 2014)

wst3 @ Tue Apr 15 said:


> Hi Michael - that was one of the most succinct, and clear posts on US copyrights in 2014 I've read. Well done. Heck, I'll even lay off the lawyer jokes for a week as my way of saying thanks!



Thanks Bill. Maybe I will finally respond to that offer to join the Copyright Society of the US. 

Seriously. 

BTW. Something additional to consider. Even though a composer has registered their copyright, it is equally possible that the alleged infringer also registered a copyright.

Unlike Trademarks, no one at the copyright office reviews, or listens, to submissions and says, "hey didn't we already register this?" or "doesn't somebody else already have something like this?" It's just a form, a deposit copy and a registration number.

I have also heard of situations in which someone waited until they suspected infringement to register, so that they could file a claim.

_Michael


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## MichaelL (Apr 16, 2014)

proxima @ Tue Apr 15 said:


> I suspect music libraries are somewhat analogous to academic journals, though someone who has actually submitted to a music library is more than welcome to chime in. With an academic journal, you never register the copyright to your paper yourself: you (typically) sign your rights to the article over to the journal. The journal then holds the copyright to each issue, and is free to register that copyright. Registering it first would just be an unnecessary hassle. I suppose there's a level of trust (reputations are worth more than any article) between author and journal that may not exist between musician and library company.




In the library world when you sign over your copyright it is usually in a *work for hire* situation, in which case the library registers, or should register, the copyright.

Under US law, transfer of the ownership of a copyright *must be done in writing*. I know of at least one library that acquired thousands of works from many composers without a written transfer of the copyrights. That library has been sold, and maybe resold, once or twice. The media giant that now owns it has no idea that it most likely does not own the copyrights to those works.


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