# Samuel Stalder compares 22 brass libraries



## Markrs

Libraries:
0:00 - Intro
2:00 - No Brass
2:40 - Adventure Brass
4:44 - Albion ONE
6:49 - Amadeus
8:52 - Metropolis Ark 1
10:52 - Master Brass
12:53 - Berlin Brass
14:53 - Berlin Inspire
16:50 - Bravura
18:49 - Caspian
20:52 - Chris Hein
22:52 - CineBrass
24:53 - CS Brass
26:53 - Da Capo
28:51 - FORZO
30:53 - Jaeger
32:53 - Symphobia
34:51 - Sample Modeling
36:53 - Sonex Brass
38:53 - The Orchestra
40:53 - Spitfire Brass 4
2:52 - Symphony Essentials
44:53 - VSCO2
46:52 - Fin


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## Gerbil

Well it does at least demonstrate how not to use brass libraries.


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## Crowe

Gerbil said:


> Well it does at least demonstrate how not to use brass libraries.



This is a quite a bit more useful than you're making it out to be XD.


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## Markrs

It was amazing how poorly some of the libraries performed.

In the comments I found out that no instrument reverb was added to the dry libraries, just the room reverb added with the orchestra. Also no changes were made to the midi data to reflect any difference in the libraries. So this needs to be taken into consideration.


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## Henu

That Samplemodeling...cannot....comprehend.......there is no god.


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## Markrs

Henu said:


> That Samplemodeling...cannot....comprehend.......there is no god.



Yep, it sounded terrible on the comparison, but like the video you shared I have heard it sound amazing.


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## Henu

That was exactly my point. What's the use of comparing libraries if you clearly have no idea how to use them?


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## JonS

Markrs said:


> Libraries:
> 0:00 - Intro
> 2:00 - No Brass
> 2:40 - Adventure Brass
> 4:44 - Albion ONE
> 6:49 - Amadeus
> 8:52 - Metropolis Ark 1
> 10:52 - Master Brass
> 12:53 - Berlin Brass
> 14:53 - Berlin Inspire
> 16:50 - Bravura
> 18:49 - Caspian
> 20:52 - Chris Hein
> 22:52 - CineBrass
> 24:53 - CS Brass
> 26:53 - Da Capo
> 28:51 - FORZO
> 30:53 - Jaeger
> 32:53 - Symphobia
> 34:51 - Sample Modeling
> 36:53 - Sonex Brass
> 38:53 - The Orchestra
> 40:53 - Spitfire Brass 4
> 2:52 - Symphony Essentials
> 44:53 - VSCO2
> 46:52 - Fin



Master Brass sounded good, so did Berlin Brass and Caspian.


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## Crowe

I appreciate how these libraries may not have been used correctly, but that changes little in the way of the unedited, out-of-the box sound of these libraries. It's been very interesting clicking around comparing a couple of them as-is.


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## Gerbil

Shiirai said:


> I appreciate how these libraries may not have been used correctly, but that changes little in the way of the unedited, out-of-the box sound of these libraries. It's been very interesting clicking around comparing a couple of them as-is.


When someone makes the shortest articulations in Cinebrass sound like a rapid fart in a bath tub, you know you're listening to a dud. Like so many videos these days, the screen capture looks enticing, the presentation is good, but the important content is 100% amateur: unperformed, robotic midi files rendered without musical awareness.

I wonder if developers shudder when they hear their work being 'showcased' like this.


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## Crowe

Great, I am an amateur. Apparently it's going to be harder for me to make Cinebrass sound good than make Berlin Brass sound good then.

As I said. Useful.


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## Kent

Shiirai said:


> I appreciate how these libraries may not have been used correctly, but that changes little in the way of the unedited, out-of-the box sound of these libraries. It's been very interesting clicking around comparing a couple of them as-is.


I don't think that's a fair statement to make, though. That's kind of like the equivalent of testing two electric guitars without first tuning them or making sure the amp is turned on. Yes, it "comes out of the box" like that, but it reflects exactly zero use-cases. This exercise tells you _something_, sure, but IMO it says nothing useful.


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## Gerbil

Shiirai said:


> Great, I am an amateur. Apparently it's going to be harder for me to make Cinebrass sound good than make Berlin Brass sound good then.
> 
> As I said. Useful.


As the owner of both libraries, I'd rethink that one if I were you.


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## Crowe

Gerbil said:


> As the owner of both libraries, I'd rethink that one if I were you.



Look. I appreciate what you're trying to say. But I have *no* other frame of reference. There are no playable demos, there is no return-policy, there are no 'actually fair' comparisons. With basically every other comparison I've managed to find the reaction is 'yeah, well, they're not using that library properly'.

I can't trust company demos, I can't trust youtube reviews and I can't trust comparisons. Guess that's it then. It's all extremely frustrating.


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## Gerbil

Shiirai said:


> Look. I appreciate what you're trying to say. But I have *no* other frame of reference. There are no playable demos, there is no return-policy, there are no 'actually fair' comparisons. With basically every other comparison I've managed to find the reaction is 'yeah, well, they're not using that library properly'.
> 
> I can't trust company demos, I can't trust youtube reviews and I can't trust comparisons. Guess that's it then. It's all extremely frustrating.


No argument from me there. I would have saved money if I could have demo'd first.


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## Kent

Shiirai said:


> Look. I appreciate what you're trying to say. But I have *no* other frame of reference. There are no playable demos, there is no return-policy, there are no 'actually fair' comparisons. With basically every other comparison I've managed to find the reaction is 'yeah, well, they're not using that library properly'.
> 
> I can't trust company demos, I can't trust youtube reviews and I can't trust comparisons. Guess that's it then. It's all extremely frustrating.





you can trust Chris Siu!
@ChrisSiuMusic


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## ChrisSiuMusic

kmaster said:


> you can trust Chris Siu!
> @ChrisSiuMusic



Haha thanks!


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## Markrs

Absolutely @ChrisSiuMusic reviews are excellent! I am subscribed and always watch them.


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## GdT

No VSL ???
try VSL Dimension Brass.


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## ChrisSiuMusic

Markrs said:


> Absolutely @ChrisSiuMusic reviews are excellent! I am subscribed and always watch them.


Much appreciated!!


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## robgb

Sorry, but these all sound as if they were played by a robot.


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## Cheezus

If the goal was to make them all sound bad, mission accomplished.


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## Zero&One

Shiirai said:


> I can't trust company demos, I can't trust youtube reviews and I can't trust comparisons. Guess that's it then. It's all extremely frustrating.



I do agree.
If this test was totally useless then Berlin would have sounded equally as bad as the others. It didn't though?
Does Berlin respond better to poor midi programming? Maybe why I like it then?


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## Henu

Shiirai said:


> It's been very interesting clicking around comparing a couple of them as-is.



You know, even though I stand completely behind my earlier opinion, I think you have a certain point- it's actually pretty refreshing (albeit most likely not intentionally done) to hear the samples performed in such a way my dead grandma would prolly do. Because if something actually sounds good with that stress test, it's most likely to sound _incredible_ in the right hands.

Then again, Samplemodeling.


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## Sarah Mancuso

Zero&One said:


> I do agree.
> If this test was totally useless then Berlin would have sounded equally as bad as the others. It didn't though?
> Does Berlin respond better to poor midi programming? Maybe why I like it then?


We know that the midi programming was the same with all the libraries, but we don't know which library it was originally programmed with. If it was programmed using Berlin and then pasted onto the other libraries without changes, Berlin would sound decent while the others would inevitably be a mess. If it was programmed using a different library and then pasted onto Berlin without changes, it wouldn't mean Berlin is now the hard-to-work-with one...


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## el-bo

EastWest Hollywood Brass is a strange omission, if only for the fact that it would only have taken the price of a couple of cups of coffee to rent it


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## Zero&One

Sarah Mancuso said:


> If it was programmed using a different library and then pasted onto Berlin without changes, it wouldn't mean Berlin is now the hard-to-work-with one...



If Berlin was used then ok, I can see the arguments to a degree. The others with several tweaks to basic midi staccato notes could sound close to Berlin.
So I'd still take Berlin.
Surely if it wasn't programmed with Berlin, and Berlin still sounded better... then berlin is the better choice?

Either way, Berlin sounded better to my ears. Maybe it's magic.


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## Mikro93

Shiirai said:


> Great, I am an amateur. Apparently it's going to be harder for me to make Cinebrass sound good than make Berlin Brass sound good then.


Yes, indeed. And yet! Somebody (a fellow member, btw) once told me that practicing on poorly coded libraries gets you used to how things work, and how to make stuff sound good. Because you have to try and try again. And honestly, I get it! Try writing some believable legato lines with only sustains and a volume fader, it'll get you to think on what's important, the timing, the expression and the transitions betwen the notes. Then, when you'll use a legato patch, you'll know what to do to fine tune it.

I own CineBrass, it has its quirks and all, but what you heard in the video is n o w h e r e near how the library sounds, even just played on the keyboard riding the modwheel. It is a very expressive library, that does some jobs absolutely perfectly 



kmaster said:


> Yes, it "comes out of the box" like that, but it reflects exactly zero use-cases.



This my biggest issue with so, so many reviews and walkthroughs out there. You almost never get anything to sound good if you don't polish that CC1 lane, these velocities, and this track delay right here. It is always better to spend some time programming rather than expect something to sound good as is, without putting some work into it, which is sometimes simply not done in reviews.

@Cory Pelizzari does it right, for example, in my humble opinion


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## Crowe

Cory is delightfully obsessive about his libraries, yeah.


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## I like music

Shiirai said:


> I can't trust company demos, I can't trust youtube reviews and I can't trust comparisons.


I don't even trust my own ears. That's why I keep spending.


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## robgb

Shiirai said:


> I can't trust company demos,


I look at company demos as what is possible if you know what you're doing. It is something to strive for. That said, these issues could be addressed by developers if they had a) workable demos; or b) a money back guarantee.


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## Samuel Stalder

*Helloooo! ONE and ALL*
*
Tis' I, the infamous Samuel Stalder!

Ruiner of sample libraries, destroyer of MIDI. 
*
*I step on ye land* to paste what I had written on my YT video.

I just noticed a huge proportion of my traffic are coming from vi-control.net. Whether you love it or hate it, thank you for checking this video out. It did take some time to make and I'm glad it's getting noticed. 

Firstly, WHAT HAVE I STARTED! 

Secondly, I know that a lot of you expert programmers are going to really hate how some of these libraries sound. I firstly want to begin by saying, I only had a limited time to use most of these libraries. I would not count myself as a good programmer by any regard so I know a lot sound a bit (probably very) bad. However, I did actually want to give you all an out-of-the-box comparison which is why some of the samples don't sound up to par to other demo videos. 

The samples have not been touched in any way other than a bit of modulation and expression and velocity. I know with more time, they could sound superb and I am trying to make videos that compare them much more in depth. 

This was more of a fun video to make and if you are going to pick a sample library based on this video alone, I think you are going into buying one waaay too quickly. I absolutely suggest checking out as many videos as you can before you make a purchase. 

That being said, if you are going to buy a library for all round realistic orchestration. I'd suggest one of these. 

Berlin Brass 
CineBrass 
Cinematic Studio Brass (if you are more into playability rather than the sound itself) 
Spitfire Symphonic Brass 
EWQL Hollywood Brass (A little hard to programme, but they sound great!) 
Noteperformer (If you use Sibelius). 

Anything else does not come up to standard with these libraries. If you think otherwise, then you are WRONG! Just kidding, everybody is entitled to their own opinion  

Although I have entered the world of sample library comparisons on the wrong foot, I do hope to do better in the future (Like come on, give me a break, this is my first comparison haha). But seriously, do expect some more useful things e.g showing the difference between out-of-the-box and mixed/well-programmed sample libraries and so on.

Until then, stay safe and well!

-Sam


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## Markrs

Samuel Stalder said:


> *Helloooo! ONE and ALL*
> 
> *Tis' I, the infamous Samuel Stalder!
> 
> Ruiner of sample libraries, destroyer of MIDI. *
> 
> *I step on ye land* to paste what I had written on my YT video.
> 
> I just noticed a huge proportion of my traffic are coming from vi-control.net. Whether you love it or hate it, thank you for checking this video out. It did take some time to make and I'm glad it's getting noticed.
> 
> Firstly, WHAT HAVE I STARTED!
> 
> Secondly, I know that a lot of you expert programmers are going to really hate how some of these libraries sound. I firstly want to begin by saying, I only had a limited time to use most of these libraries. I would not count myself as a good programmer by any regard so I know a lot sound a bit (probably very) bad. However, I did actually want to give you all an out-of-the-box comparison which is why some of the samples don't sound up to par to other demo videos.
> 
> The samples have not been touched in any way other than a bit of modulation and expression and velocity. I know with more time, they could sound superb and I am trying to make videos that compare them much more in depth.
> 
> This was more of a fun video to make and if you are going to pick a sample library based on this video alone, I think you are going into buying one waaay too quickly. I absolutely suggest checking out as many videos as you can before you make a purchase.
> 
> That being said, if you are going to buy a library for all round realistic orchestration. I'd suggest one of these.
> 
> Berlin Brass
> CineBrass
> Cinematic Studio Brass (if you are more into playability rather than the sound itself)
> Spitfire Symphonic Brass
> EWQL Hollywood Brass (A little hard to programme, but they sound great!)
> Noteperformer (If you use Sibelius).
> 
> Anything else does not come up to standard with these libraries. If you think otherwise, then you are WRONG! Just kidding, everybody is entitled to their own opinion
> 
> Although I have entered the world of sample library comparisons on the wrong foot, I do hope to do better in the future (Like come on, give me a break, this is my first comparison haha). But seriously, do expect some more useful things e.g showing the difference between out-of-the-box and mixed/well-programmed sample libraries and so on.
> 
> Until then, stay safe and well!
> 
> -Sam


Thank you for commenting on this thread Sam. I look forward to the new, more detailed comparison.


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## Henrik B. Jensen

Samuel Stalder said:


> *Helloooo! ONE and ALL*
> 
> *Tis' I, the infamous Samuel Stalder!
> 
> Ruiner of sample libraries, destroyer of MIDI. *
> 
> *I step on ye land* to paste what I had written on my YT video.


I love this intro and your sense of humor, Sam  “Step on ye land”!


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