# Seriously?! Hey Google write me a song written by me



## AudioLoco (May 15, 2021)

I just stumbled in this:









Lyric Writing Software? - Gearspace.com


I'm considering these two lyric writing programs. I have my tried and true methods that have worked for years, but I would love to expand my practice, so let me know if you have tried either, if you recommend either, etc. Thanks! http://lyricstudio.net ht



gearspace.com





Seriously now. Self writing chords, self writing melody, and now also self writing lyrics...
This is going somewhere stupid...

Wanna be a musician? No talent or craftsmanship or creativity (wot iz dat?) whatsoever necessary in the future!
I understand a synonyme and rhyme dictionary, can help in emergencies and blanks, but this is too far.

Just be a plumber a lawyer or anything else if you need a machine to actually do the creative work for ya....
I don't understand what is the point.
Haven't got anything to say? Just don't say anything.


(PS I can understand using this crap for writing lyrics for adverts and jingles where who cares, but to write your own stuff?)

Sorry for the rant-y rant, I just really don't get it.


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## gohrev (May 15, 2021)

Hmm I'm a bit suspicious of those testimonial quotes. 



> _*Masterwriting was the missing piece I never knew I was searching for.*_
> – Duke Ellington


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## AudioLoco (May 15, 2021)

gohrev said:


> Hmm I'm a bit suspicious of those testimonial quotes.


Yeah.... please tell me it's a joke...


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## AudioLoco (May 15, 2021)

Ps on second thought.... 

"42, 42, 42, 42!!" 

might be better lyrics then :

"I know you want it
I know you want it
I know you want it
You're a good girl"


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## Voider (May 16, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Wanna be a musician? No talent or craftsmanship or creativity (wot iz dat?) whatsoever necessary in the future!


This statement makes no sense.
You could also look at super computers calculating the universe and be saying:

"Want to be a mathematician? No talent or intelligence whatsoever necessary in the future!"


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## AudioLoco (May 16, 2021)

Voider said:


> This statement makes no sense.
> You could also look at super computers calculating the universe and be saying:
> 
> "Want to be a mathematician? No talent or intelligence whatsoever necessary in the future!"


Completely different cases


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## Voider (May 16, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Completely different cases


Not at all. 

In the same way being a mathematician doesn't take less skill just because some machines can do super complex calculations, being a composer or musician doesn't take less skill just because there is a machine that can create compositions.


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## AudioLoco (May 16, 2021)

Voider said:


> Not at all.
> 
> In the same way being a mathematician doesn't take less skill just because some machines can do super complex calculations, being a composer or musician doesn't take less skill just because there is a machine that can create compositions.


My stepfather is a mathematician.
I can tell you It's not about calculations and algebra, it's about ideas.

Obviously mathematicians leave the milions of actual calculations to computers.


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## Voider (May 16, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> I can tell you It's not about calculations and algebra, it's about ideas.


Exactly, guess what being a composer is about.



AudioLoco said:


> Obviously mathematicians leave the milions of actual calculations to computers.


As we do with the playing of instruments we by ourselves couldn't play that well, instruments we didn't record and sample by ourselves, using plugins that others have developed for us in a DAW that someone else and not we programmed.

There is no difference, the computer is just a tool.

You're not less of a composer just because you didn't play the violin by yourself, you're not less of a mathematician just because you let your software do some calculations, and you're not less of a musician just because you let an AI write some lyrics and take those as a starting point to get inspired for a new song or vice versa, are the vocalist/rapper and get an instrumental from your producer (or an AI).


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## AudioLoco (May 16, 2021)

Voider said:


> Exactly, guess what being a composer is about.


Yes exactly, but you contradict yourself as you just stated "In the same way being a mathematician doesn't take less skill just because some machines can do super complex calculations".
It's obvious and a given that complex calculations are done by a computer, you brought that up.
Calculations and writing lyrics is not exactly the same thing (maybe in your world)


Voider said:


> As we do with the playing of instruments we by ourselves couldn't play that well, instruments we didn't record and sample by ourselves, using plugins that others have developed for us in a DAW that someone else and not we programmed.



And playing a guitar we didn't build too at this point.... And manufacturing the paper we write on .
These examples really... really don't work.


Voider said:


> There is no difference, the computer is just a tool.
> 
> You're not less of a composer just because you didn't play the violin by yourself, you're not less of a mathematician just because you let your software do some calculations,


Nobody expects you to do the actual calculations, since like the 60s, I think you are confused about what a mathematician does


Voider said:


> and you're not less of a musician just because you let an AI write some lyrics and take those as a starting point to get inspired for a new song or vice versa, are the vocalist/rapper and get an instrumental from your producer (or an AI).


Hey if it's a couple of words to kickstart something might be, but If an AI actually writes a large chunk/most of the thing for a "lyricist", he is defo not a lyricist, but a sad fraud.


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## Voider (May 16, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Calculations and writing lyrics is not exactly the same thing (maybe in your world)


Letting a computer do something for you and letting a computer do something for you, are *exactly the same thing*. The only question is *how much* of your work a computer has done.



AudioLoco said:


> Nobody expects you to do the actual calculations, since like the 60s, I think you are confused about what a mathematician does


I think you are confused about the analogy.



AudioLoco said:


> but If an AI actually writes a large chunk/most of the thing for a "lyricist", he is defo not a lyricist, but a sad frode.



Someone who does sing or rap or is part of a choir or a solo singer plays a *vocal instrument*.
That's nothing different from a cello player playing a* string instrument*. In the same way a cello player isn't "_a sad fraud_" because he performs John Williams' or any other composers lines, a singer or rapper isn't "_a sad fraud_" just because he performs some AI's lines.

Nobody prints out a text an AI has written, goes on stage, does nothing else than showing it to the audience by holding it into the camera and then leaves while calling himself a lyricist. There's hundred things more that come together being a performing artist, and lyrics are, as important as they can be, just a tiny part of the whole.

Before you try to judge who's an artist and who isn't based on which workflow you personally prefer, you should actually think a bit longer about this topic and its underlying relationships between different stages of producing/creating a whole piece of music and its performance with all given facets.


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## AudioLoco (May 16, 2021)

Voider said:


> Letting a computer do something for you and letting a computer do something for you, are *exactly the same thing*. The only question is *how much* of your work a computer has done.
> 
> 
> I think you are confused about the analogy.
> ...


Wow your analogies are all over the place...
A cellist playing a JW part is not pretending to be a composer, it's called execution and it is very common

I prefer the workflow of actually writing, creating, coming up with stuff, inventing and that makes a creator in any art form, a creator. The one that creates.... a fraud on the other hand gets what is given to them and then pretends to have created it themselves.


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## Macrawn (May 16, 2021)

It's just a testament to how bad lyric writing is in general today. I think that thing could generate better stuff than most people can write. There are some good lyricists out there but man you have to wade through a lot of nonsense that google could write to find them. 

Plus there is a whole industry that just manufactures pop hits. You know, get one of those beautiful people, put some studio musicians behind him/her, get a writer who knows what works in pop to write some lines about some girl/boy, (if country music add drinking beer), great studio production, rinse and repeat.

There are just tons of people with really nothing to really say trying to do it, or worse, they don't even know what they could say because they haven't gone through that existential process (that people generally avoid) to become good writers. 

So yes, I'm not surprised a computer program could write lyrics. In fact it's probably an improvement over a lot of clones posing as original people out there, just it could never make a Bob Dylan. 

People are also still surprised that bots can produce tired has been done already classical music structures too? Anyone really understand what the real problem is? These bots more a symptom of it.


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## Voider (May 16, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Wow your analogies are all over the place...
> A cellist playing a JW part is not pretending to be a composer, it's called execution and it is very common


Same goes for any vocalist / performer but you seem to ignore that in favour to your statement.


AudioLoco said:


> I prefer the workflow of actually writing, creating, coming up with stuff, inventing and that makes a creator in any art form, a creator.



I must disillusion you, 90% of vocal artists out there don't do their own instrumentals. And 90% of those instrumental creators out there don't do the vocals on the instrumentals they create. And many don't write all of their lyrics by themselves and for every single song.

Just because a fully fledged production is split between several artists, each doing what they're best at, the end result is not less artistic.

You seem to be confused by the fact that single performing artists aren't on stage with everyone else who was involved in the production.

Even if Eminem is performing on the stage, he had people creating the beats for him, mixing engineers making it sounding 100 times better than it was recorded and so on and so forth.

So again: It takes way more to be an artist than print out some lyrics, and many creative people are involved, also true for single artists.

And if Eminem is not less of a musician because he doesn't create his beats himself, and his beat creator isn't less of a musician because he doesn't rap on his instrumental but let the vocal part being done by someone else, then one is as well not less of a musician if he lets an AI create *a part* of his production.

Nothing changed on outsourcing specific parts of a production.


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## Uiroo (May 16, 2021)

gohrev said:


> Hmm I'm a bit suspicious of those testimonial quotes.


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## AudioLoco (May 16, 2021)

Voider said:


> Same goes for any vocalist / performer but you seem to ignore that in favour to your statement.
> 
> 
> I must disillusion you, 90% of vocal artists out there don't do their own instrumentals. And 90% of those instrumental creators out there don't do the vocals on the instrumentals they create. And many don't write all of their lyrics by themselves and for every single song.
> ...


Oh dear....
I really don't think I am the one who is confused.

Eminem raps on "beats" using words HE WROTE HIMSELF. (He even has a huge pile of notebooks full of ideas and he actually studies the vocabulary to learn as much as he can, he puts in the work and his human creative force to come up with stuff)
Sinatra mostly sang stuff he didn't write and was a great musician

Anyhow thank you for your contribution


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## Toecutter (May 16, 2021)

Macrawn said:


> It's just a testament to how bad lyric writing is in general today. I think that thing could generate better stuff than most people can write. There are some good lyricists out there but man you have to wade through a lot of nonsense that google could write to find them.


Agreed! I had the same reaction when I saw what Lyric Studio was capable of 

Compare it to Save Your Tears (#1 song atm) I actually prefer the generated lyrics!

And then we have this... I know it's down to personal preference but the way the guy delivers the lines sounds like he's having a stroke XD


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## Voider (May 16, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Eminem raps on "beats" using words HE WROTE HIMSELF. (He even has a huge pile of notebooks full of ideas and he actually studies the vocabulary to learn as much as he can, he puts in the work and his human creative force to come up with stuff)
> Sinatra mostly sang stuff he didn't write and was a great musician



It doesn't matter. If he doesn't write the lyrics for one of his songs, he is still rapping it, he is still the same talented guy with the insane rapping technique, he is still the "brand" Eminem that he has build up over decades, he is still on stage performing his role confidently in front of a big audience with even bigger expectations.

Another artist might not write his own lyrics, but therefor might make his own instrumentals.
And if Grimes would use lyrics entirely written by an AI for one of her next songs, that would even fit perfectly into her style.

Your strawman-artist who has nothing else than a printed sheet of lyrics from an AI-website to offer and does that for every single song in his entire career, simply doesn't exist. The reality is far, far away from your simplified imagination about what it takes to be a performing solo artist.


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## mscp (May 16, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> I just stumbled in this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some of the recent lyrics I’ve heard on the radio sound exactly like words randomly picked from my mobile’s predictive text row and put together. So…yes…One can hit the chart without doing much. It’s up to who’s behind the “creative genius”.


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## AudioLoco (May 16, 2021)

Phil81 said:


> Some of the recent lyrics I’ve heard on the radio sound exactly like words randomly picked from my mobile’s predictive text row and put together. So…yes…One can hit the chart without doing much. It’s up to who’s behind the “creative genius”.


Yes you are right, thinking of it, probably for modern, contemporary Pop lyrics it's perfectly adequate.
It's not like you are putting terrible lyrics on some Bach music.

Also boring repetitive and banal lyrics have always been around
"give me your heart tonight we'll be together baby baby baby" etc etc etc heard a million times....

Still doesn't mean I owe these kind of "developments" and technological direction any sympathy or respect.
I am for keeping AIs out of art in general.


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## Michel Simons (May 16, 2021)

Phil81 said:


> Some of the recent lyrics I’ve heard on the radio sound exactly like words randomly picked from my mobile’s predictive text row and put together.


Damn! I thought I was onto something groundbreakingly new.


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## MusiquedeReve (May 16, 2021)

Google AI is the new DJ Khaled


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## mscp (May 16, 2021)

Michel Simons said:


> Damn! I thought I was onto something groundbreakingly new.


You need a firmware update to be ahead of AI.


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## Polkasound (May 16, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> I understand a synonyme and rhyme dictionary, can help in emergencies and blanks, but this is too far...


Imagine being in an Olympic gymnastics facility where people who have trained all their lives are doing amazing things. And then someone invents a bionic suit pre-programmed with gymnastic routines. A few people walk in off the street, strap it on, and it the suit carries them through the same routines as the gymnasts.

AI-based music and lyrics creation software can be (ab)used in the same way, where anyone who feels like being a music producer this week can press a few keys on their computer and write songs. As an old-school producer and songwriter, it's a shame to see this happen, but it's just business and technology evolving on a very natural path. I'm all for using technology to spur inspiration; I just don't like seeing people rely on technology to replace it.


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## Voider (May 16, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> Imagine being in an Olympic gymnastics facility where people who have trained all their lives are doing amazing things. And then someone invents a bionic suit pre-programmed with gymnastic routines. A few people walk in off the street, strap it on, and it the suit carries them through the same routines as the gymnasts.



Imagine being at a huge orchestral event where people who have trained to play instruments all their lives are doing amazing things. And then someone invents a DAW and software with recordings of all typical and atypical phrases, articulations and instruments. A few people walk in off the street, pull out their laptops, hit some keys on their hipster 21-keys-midi-keyboard and the DAW gives them the same performances those musicians trained their whole lives for.


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## Polkasound (May 16, 2021)

Voider said:


> Imagine being at a huge orchestral event where people who have trained to play instruments all their lives are doing amazing things. And then someone invents a DAW and software with recordings of all typical and atypical phrases, articulations and instruments. A few people walk in off the street, pull out their laptops, hit some keys on their hipster 21-keys-midi-keyboard and the DAW lets them do stuff only all the other players could do together in the fraction of a few minutes.


If their DAWs have AI built in that allows them to press a few buttons and create music, then yes, it's the same thing. Rather than learning how to compose, they just let the loops and phrases do all the work.


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## Voider (May 16, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> If their DAWs have AI built in that allows them to press a few buttons and create music, then yes, it's the same thing. Rather than learning how to compose, they just let the loops and phrases do all the work.


I would rather say, there are so many things involved in the process that one simply can't reduce an artist to just one of them.

Even if I get a paper of lyrics written by someone else (_AI, Ghostwriter, a friend_), I still need to sing or rap it. I still need to perform it live on stage in front of hundreds or thousands of people with high expectations on me - for hours. I still need to know how to make a good show, how to express the whole piece as best possible.

Nothing different from a pianist given a paper of sheet music he would perform, vocals are an instrument too and it can get pretty complex and difficult as well, the skillcap is very, very high, even in rap music.

So I assume what's buying perfectly shaped libraries with presets from the masters for every specific purpose to create the picture in our head for many VI-composers, is the same what buying or getting an instrumental, beat or print of lyrics is for an artist, who ultimatively puts it all together as well. But in the same way we shape our loops and presets, he'll sit with his instrumental producer in the studio and tries to shape how the outcome sounds, and he will for sure edit the AI lyrics.

It's quite hard to compare since it's two different worlds. For an artist, expressing his often fictional character or role for a piece of music, building a brand around that artistic figure, planning the design and ideas for the shows and music videos is very important. There are different focuses on the overall picture, the different disciplines shift.

A performing solo artist, especially in non-traditional environments is not just a performer of an instrument anymore today, but an idol as well, a person with a lot of influence, a human being in the spotlight. So the transition between the art of making music and creating a figure, philosophy and style is fluent. Even if an artist is just himself and grows into what he does.

I think in the creative world we should rather stay supportive to each other and don't be so judgemental, especially about genres we don't perform in and only know a little bit of.


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## Polkasound (May 16, 2021)

Voider said:


> I think in the creative world we should rather stay supportive to each other and don't be so judgemental, especially about genres we don't perform in and only know a little bit of.


I like your post. I think it philosophizes quite a bit further than scope of the thread, but it's all good stuff. I was not intending to criticize the artistic process. I was just commenting about how software is now enabling music to be created _without_ artistry.


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## AudioLoco (May 16, 2021)

Voider said:


> building a brand around that artistic figure, planning the design and ideas for the shows and music videos is very important. There are different focuses on the overall picture, the different disciplines shift.
> .....an idol as well, a person with a lot of influence, a human being in the spotlight....


So.... The Kardasihans basically.
I'm talking about a different argument: MUSIC creation and composition. That's what i care about, and that is what the thread is about. It is not about marketing.


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## JDK88 (May 26, 2021)

Why waste art and talent on soulless advertisements, corporations, and click-bait videos? Let AI do it. Have true art speak for itself.


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