# Albion 3 what a disappointment!



## blooming (Jan 3, 2013)

I bought it because I thought I could reinforce my Low brass section and I just got patches that are completely useless.
I see there is a big lack of dynamic in all of the orchestral patches, there is some ridiculous patches like the woodwind lo, that sound so bad and missing a lot of articulations.
Every patch is really big using a lot of memory and the room sounds really bad, compare to other libraries like Cinebrass or Hollywood brass this is something so not pro.
The loops on it are very old fashion and I guess that someone that has Omnispher will do something sounding better in a few minutes.
I payed 300 euros for this and I think I will never use it.
I think this kind of libraries are a lack of respect for professional users.

If someone is interested I can give more details about it.
:evil:


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## doctornine (Jan 3, 2013)

blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I bought it because I thought I could reinforce my Low brass section and I just got patches that are completely useless.
> I see there is a big leak of dynamic in all of the orchestral patches, there is some ridiculous patches like the woodwind lo, that sound so bad and missing a lot of articulations.
> Every patch is really big using a lot of memory and the room sounds really bad, compare to other libraries like Cinebrass or Hollywood brass this is something so not pro.
> The loops on it are very old fashion and I guess that someone that has Omnispher will do something sounding better in a few minutes.
> ...



Wow, I guess you don't like it then.

I've bought all three Albion's - very *very* happy with all of them to be honest.
Personal taste obviously, but the last thing I'd describe any Spitfire product as would be : "not so pro". 

Lack of respect for professional users ? 
Are you genuinely serious ?

I guess I can all myself a professional user, being that I make my living from music. Spitfire's products make job a hell of a lot easier. 

Horses for courses I guess.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 3, 2013)

- I bought and am happy because it reinforces my low brass section. I knew that I was getting a Symphobia-like patch setup, where all the brass are mixed together, not individual instrument patches like VSL or Cinebrass, for eg.
- I find that I can get quite a nice dynamic range if I combine the use of the Modwheel and CC11. In fact, the FFF are monstrous, and the soft timbres are gorgeous. The woodwinds are as I expected them from the videos and overall direction of this library (have you seen the graphics?!)
- The room sounds really great, and there are a good variety of mic choices, so I can tailor the amount of natural space I want.
- The loops are very cool, fit right in with the overall dark aesthetic. Quite a number are in other tempi than 4/4, which is welcomed. It would be very hard to replicate these kinds of loops in Omnisphere.
- While I did find it pricey, I like the fact that the players seemed to be very respected, well-paid, and, after all, since I'm a professional, I can recoup the cost of this library with one gig.
I believe I already wrote a mini-review in the official thread, and I stand by my first impressions. =o


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## blooming (Jan 3, 2013)

Do you have Holliwood Brass or Cinebrass?
Have you work with Sampling modeling?
I'm used to work with them and after I listen to this, I just want to uninstall this library from my computer.
I think this library is like fast food made only with the propose to take your money.
Are you pro of MacDonald too?, here in France we don't like that.
Is so not musical, I never will enjoy playing with it.


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## Caedwallon (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm quite surprised by this post.

I really do like Albion 3, including its synth/loop patches. I will admit that I was expecting a few more sections/divs in the orchestral line-up and a bit more polish here and there; but being a Spitfire (one of my favourite developers) product, it can only get better! The only patches from the Albion series that I'm not a big fan of, are the sustains on Strings Longs from Albion 2; everything else is awesome and as doctornine points out, they're very easy to work with.

That said, I'm interested as to why you've come to such a harsh conclusion.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 3, 2013)

blooming @ 3/1/2013 said:


> Do you have Holliwood Brass or Cinebrass?
> Have you work with Sampling modeling?
> I'm used to work with them and after I listen to this, I just want to uninstall this library from my computer.
> I think this library is like fast food made only with the propose to take your money.
> ...



I do have Cinebrass. And many, many other libraries.
Je suis né en France, et je sais très bien qu'il y a plein de McDo en France, alors pour la leçon de morale...
Too bad you're so upset with your purchase. Did you watch the videos first? Did you try contacting Spitfire Audio with your grief? Did you have too much coffee or a bad end of the year? Do you enjoy insulting people?


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## TheWillardofOZ (Jan 3, 2013)

> Do you have Holliwood Brass or Cinebrass?
> Have you work with Sampling modeling?
> I'm used to work with them and after I listen to this, I just want to uninstall this library from my computer.
> I think this library is like fast food made only with the propose to take your money.
> ...



It sounds like you didn't research the product before buying. If you had watched any of the walkthroughs then you would know exactly what you were getting for your money. Failing to do your homework isn't fair to yourself and it's surely not fair to the company you're bashing.


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## doctornine (Jan 3, 2013)

Haven't we already had one developer post a very personal video in regards this kind of negativity ?


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## RiffWraith (Jan 3, 2013)

Ok, I am going to interject here, hopefully before this gets out of hand.

As has been said before, one of the great things about this forum is the censorship - specifically _the lack of_. Before anyone starts trashing Francisco - let's all be aware that everyone should be allowed express their opinion - even if you personally feel the exact opposite. I agree that the op could have used a little more tact, but let's not bash him for not liking the lib and saying so publicly.

Cheers.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 3, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> Ok, I am going to interject here, hopefully before this gets out of hand.
> 
> As has been said before, one of the great things about this forum is the censorship - specifically _the lack of_. Before anyone starts trashing Francisco - let's all be aware that everyone should be allowed express their opinion - even if you personally feel the exact opposite. I agree that the op could have used a little more tact, but let's not bash him for not liking the lib and saying so publicly.
> 
> Cheers.



Baloney. If he is going to dish it out that harshly, he should be prepared to take it.


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## Caedwallon (Jan 3, 2013)

RiffWraith @ 3rd January said:


> Ok, I am going to interject here, hopefully before this gets out of hand.
> 
> As has been said before, one of the great things about this forum is the censorship - specifically _the lack of_. Before anyone starts trashing Francisco - let's all be aware that everyone should be allowed express their opinion - even if you personally feel the exact opposite. I agree that the op could have used a little more tact, but let's not bash him for not liking the lib and saying so publicly.
> 
> Cheers.



+1. I fully agree, but he comes across as being a bit too harsh.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 3, 2013)

It's all about the tone. The OP should be upset with himself for buying something without doing the proper research first. I usually check out all videos about a library before plunking down 300 beans - don't you?
He (and all others here) are allowed to share their disappointment with any library or software, but any insults will be met with push-back, IMO.


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## Jack Weaver (Jan 3, 2013)

Don't have Albion3 so I'm in no position to have a qualified opinion on its value. 

But the thing that is valuable is the nature of VI-Control and its freedom of responsible content. I've learned a lot of things here over the years from individuals with contrary opinion. The OP paid his money and was disappointed and feels strongly enough about it to post. Others disagree. I think they are both important. 

Of course, the developer is free to defend themselves also: a great public forum. 

Thank you, Frederick. 

.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jan 3, 2013)

Albion 3 is great at what it does.
Really nice addition for everything low end.
Room is much better than EW HB, since the EW room is not a hall, and for these type of instruments a great hall is a plus.

Like other posters here, i think that for US customers, based on the Euro conversion, it is a bit over priced compared to Albion 1 & 2.
And a bit short on articulations.
But with the 25% off and the bonus discounts, it is reasonable.
No regrets here!

Based on your above assessments, I do question your production knowledge and experience...


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## blooming (Jan 3, 2013)

Are you all working for spitfire?
I have the right to post this, is not the reason for what this forum exists? and I haven't insult anyone!
But I feel stolen.
Yeah sure, I thought this would be a good library taking in consideration its roots but unfortunately this is not the case.
Sorry guys, I know this is a little bit drastic but, I only wanted to share this experience to avoid that people working with the libraries already mentioned, wont get upset.

I think this is enough, I repeat this is a free forum and I haven't insult anyone.
But I am a musician that works hard and knows what is the real value of 300 Euros.

Thanks for your replays

Best


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## Synesthesia (Jan 3, 2013)

blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I bought it because I thought I could reinforce my Low brass section and I just got patches that are completely useless.
> I see there is a big lack of dynamic in all of the orchestral patches, there is some ridiculous patches like the woodwind lo, that sound so bad and missing a lot of articulations.
> Every patch is really big using a lot of memory and the room sounds really bad, compare to other libraries like Cinebrass or Hollywood brass this is something so not pro.
> The loops on it are very old fashion and I guess that someone that has Omnispher will do something sounding better in a few minutes.
> ...




I am interested. 

Missing articulations? Read the manual please. 

Big lack of dynamic? Have you moved the modwheel yet?

The room sounds really bad? Air Lyndhurst Hall is one of the greatest studios in the world. There is a reason so many great scores are recorded there. Its one of the last great studio spaces available.

Every patch is really big using a lot of memory? Nonsense!!! 

Old fashioned loops? 

sigh!

Thanks for the positive responses from those who have chimed in with their thoughts and experiences with the library.


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## hector (Jan 3, 2013)

blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I think this is enough, I repeat this is a free forum and I haven't insult anyone. But I am a musician that works hard and knows what is the real value of 300 Euros.


Your whole post is quite insulting both to the developers, and to professionals and hobbyists who are getting good use out of the library, and your 'here in France' BS is also quite self righteous and insulting - not to mention it would have been a lot simpler and less hostile to just email Spitfire with your problems. 

Reading your original post it's pretty obvious you didn't watch the walkthrough or read much about what Albion 3 contained. If you make assumptions and fail to research things you intend to spend something you consider a lot of money on, you're an idiot. The videos Spitfire posted show how it sounds, the articulations it includes and the demos show how it sounds naked (they also demonstrate that it's far from 'completely useless'.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 3, 2013)

blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> Are you all working for spitfire?
> I have the right to post this, is not the reason for what this forum exists? and I haven't insult anyone!
> But I feel stolen.
> Yeah sure, I thought this would be a good library taking in consideration its roots but unfortunately this is not the case.
> ...



In point of fact, i work for a competitor, EastWest, but as I said, if you are going to harshly criticize, you need to expect harsh criticism in return. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 3, 2013)

Francisco, you did insult people:

- you said that this kind of library shows a lack of respect for pro users

- you said that this library is like fast food, only made to take our money

- you insulted me by suggesting that I am a McDonald's fan

- you insulted those of us who disagree with you by insinuating that we must work for Spitfire Audio

- of course, you also insulted Spitfire many, many times, but I'll keep it to this list for now, as everyone can easily read your posts

You could have made your points without being such a jerk.


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## germancomponist (Jan 3, 2013)

Could it be that someone has had a damn bad day? >8o


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## Synesthesia (Jan 3, 2013)

By the way - as you bought the library on 20th December, you could have contacted us before to ask some questions to help you get the best from it.


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## blooming (Jan 3, 2013)

UHHHHH I´m in travell!
I guess that now I will never get a discount from spritfire!
I guess I will need one if I would like to buy the serious stuff, how much it cost, yeahh 10.000 pounds, EACH.
If I moved my mod wheel? please didnt you think in a better excuse?

Please I want my money back!!!




Synesthesia @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > I bought it because I thought I could reinforce my Low brass section and I just got patches that are completely useless.
> ...


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## pulse (Jan 3, 2013)

I just wanted to jump in and say that I own all the spitfire products.... and absolutely love them 

Just to note I don't work for Spitfire 

The thought of Albion 3 not being for professionals is quite crazy! I've used all the Albion series extensively in a number of big shows. True they might not be as flexible as a dedicated String or Brass library, but that is not the point of these products... they fill a gap in the market for composers who are in need of composing quickly due to very strict deadlines... and to be honest I wish other dedicated String and Brass libraries had the sound of the Albion Series.

Its always important to do your research before buying a product, making sure it fits into your composing style.

If your complaints are regarding bugs... its always best to report them straight to the developer... its counterproductive to create posts when your upset.

I think the tone of your posts came across as quite insulting... even if you did not mean them to be... is it an English thing? End of the day we're all here to help each other... lets try and get 2013 off on a good positive start!

Kind regards,

Anthony


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## Caedwallon (Jan 3, 2013)

blooming @ 3rd January said:


> Are you all working for spitfire?
> I have the right to post this, is not the reason for what this forum exists? and I haven't insult anyone!
> But I feel stolen.
> Yeah sure, I thought this would be a good library taking in consideration its roots but unfortunately this is not the case.
> ...



Nope, just a Spitfire fanboy here.  Also, I bought Albion 3 for less than 200 Euros (Introductory Discount + 25% Voucher) so it was not a difficult choice for me. 

I never expected to see a lot of personal attacking in the replies here just because someone voiced an opinion, perhaps I should go back to lurking and ignore/not participate in such discussions.

Cheers.


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## hector (Jan 3, 2013)

Caedwallon @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I never expected to see a lot of personal attacking in the replies here just because someone voiced an opinion


There is a difference between voicing your opinion and being insulting. Calling a product completely useless, ridiculous and then complaining that it wasn't what you expected and anyone who thinks otherwise is a shill is not voicing an opinion. If he wants to dish it out, he should also expect to be dealt some back.

His points are plain wrong - I have it loaded up in front of me and it has plenty dynamics there are no articulations missing that were shown/mentioned and it doesn't take up much memory at all.


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## windshore (Jan 3, 2013)

Wow Francisco, 

So this style of communication has kept you working in the music business? Really?

Your comments have no basis. If there is a specific articulation that you have a problem with, you should mention it. Your other points are baseless as far as I can tell. The dynamics are huge, the quality of sound, top notch. 

In fact this whole post of yours smells of some hidden agenda.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 3, 2013)

Programming dynamic changes via modwheel is an excuse? Now I've really heard everything. IMHO, you deserve to be charged more than all of us in the future simply because you are so mean-spirited. Or a mean drunk.


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## blooming (Jan 3, 2013)

when someone don't like his president, will say I don't like him and I wont reelect him.
When someone don't like his food, he wont eat it,
when someone don't like a girl, he wont ask her to marry.

So What I don't understand is, why can I not say what I think in this forum, it is made for that! 

I DONT LIKE THIS LIBRARY AS I LIKE MANY OTHERS
I lost my money, I wont use it.

Who is not going to sleep tonight for that,
Do I will lost a job?

I will go to the black list of who?

This is a forum and I have the right to post my opinion
Sorry for that


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 3, 2013)

Are you blind, man? :



Ned Bouhalassa @ 3/1/2013 said:


> Francisco, you did insult people:
> 
> - you said that this kind of library shows a lack of respect for pro users
> 
> ...


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 3, 2013)

Good lord.

Blooming - let's be charitable here and say the language is a real barrier here. I don't own Albion 3 - like Albion 1 and 2 they both ultimately felt like they overlapped a little too much in what I already have for the price, though they were all very tempting and I see they have many, many fans. But here's what I do know, just from reading, and listening to the demos.

1 - the space. It's Air, one of the premium recording spaces in the world. Scores recorded there include Casino Royale, The Hunger Games, The Dark Knight Rises, Brave and Inception. Unless you can point to a specific issue in the recording here, your comments appear nonsensical.

2 - the pro comments. Again, this comes over as petulant nonsense. Many pros here have given great notices on this library. Are you more pro than them? It's fine to express an opinion, but what you have written goes beyond opinion. This absurd loaded terminology blows a hole in your credibility.

3 - the lack of articulations. Did you, or did you not research this library at all before buying? What patches or articulations were advertised but are missing for you?

Blooming, I think you need to think very carefully before posting next, if you want to be taken seriously. Whining and insulting everyone regarding a very popular library from a very popular developer recorded in an A list studio with A list players won't win you any cred points. If you feel there are objective issues with the library, then go through them, without loaded terminology, in detail. Being v1.0, I've no doubt that there will be rough edges, but constructive feedback is far more likely to be taken seriously than silly ranting. Truly, it is unprofessional.


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## blooming (Jan 3, 2013)

Men I think you are so sensitive, but maybe I am insulting you now, sorry for that one.
I just don't like the library, as I have seen before many other post saying the same about other products.
Sorry for all the insults then, I respect you all
But I don't agree with this kind of excessive care in this case.
We are the costumers, we are not the supporters of a football team.
Sorry for this insult then.

Hey guys I think I wont continue with this, I guess I have better things to do.

Sorry again if some one felt affected for my rustic way of talking.

Best to all


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## gsilbers (Jan 3, 2013)

pulse @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I just wanted to jump in and say that I own all the spitfire products.... and absolutely love them
> 
> Just to note I don't work for Spitfire
> 
> ...



nope. not an english thing. its a learning thing. it took me a while too. i learned to more appropietly in a grown up forum. not just write for shock value and also learned how to do my research. 

i myself do not like east west as a company and ive been very vocal about it. still i just dont scream EW sucks which i know many composers like EW and its just my opinion. but if there is a specific issue that has come up in other posts i bring it up.

i also do not like the sound of LASS. and would like my money back but audiobro dont give money back or allow to sell. 

but i dont scream it sucsk be aware. 

i usually let everyone know about the reselling policy and try to argue againt this policy and post in forums to get sample companies to allow reselling. they hide behind the recording copyright even though it is a software, which by US and EU law you are able to sell. 

the above is a specific point, which appears in several discussion and there is point in favor and against. 
which is much different than saying guns and roses sucks poision is better. 
which is entirley based on taste "90;s taste, but opinion none the less. 

sample libraries are difficult since the demos might be awesome since its done by pros and geared to a specific genre. 
i like watxching videos like the ones from daniel james whcih is a walkthrough.


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## Udo (Jan 3, 2013)

I have most of Spitfire's non-bespoke products, incl A1+A2, and I'm happy with them. I'm still on the fence re A3, however.

From what I've heard of the non orchestral components, I agree with the OP; nothing really special. Didn't hear anything that could't be easily achieved by anyone reasonably familiar with synth programming/sound design.

Haven't really heard enough demos of the orchestral components to decide. Despite the 25% off, I'm still not sure ... 3 hours to decide ...

BTW, the "Holy Cow" syndrome appears to be alive and well here .... :wink:


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## Craig Sharmat (Jan 3, 2013)

Fransisco,

Please take my comments not as a mod but as a forum member.

I can understand if the library is not working for you being upset, to many the cost of libraries are prohibitive. Lashing out may not be the best way to go about things but you have accomplished some of your goal which is the attention you wanted. Getting your money back might be another but good luck with that.

My suggestion, though you didn't ask for it, is go over Paul's tutorial and try to match the sound your other libraries have. Do the same phrases as Paul does, I have heard your work and you are quite capable. See if your libraries really can match the sonic depth at FFF or tone at pp down low. You may discover they don't. You may also discover that your other libraries are still quite capable of doing what Albion 3 does but again not with the same character. Whether you like that character or not is a personal decision but you may find an appreciation for the library that you did not have before, one can only hope.


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## blooming (Jan 3, 2013)

I think you are right!
Good point
All my respect
PD. But I still don't like the room, it sounds so different to all of the other libraries, and it is too wet for me, I feel that It's inconsistent.

Anyway an it is only my opinion.

But I didnt know that someone had allready post about this product, so I dint mean to call this people un-professional.




Guy Rowland @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> Good lord.
> 
> Blooming - let's be charitable here and say the language is a real barrier here. I don't own Albion 3 - like Albion 1 and 2 they both ultimately felt like they overlapped a little too much in what I already have for the price, though they were all very tempting and I see they have many, many fans. But here's what I do know, just from reading, and listening to the demos.
> 
> ...


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## Rctec (Jan 3, 2013)

Bloomin' 'eck!!!

It's the McDonalds thing that stings... Poor Ned!

Why not just say that this library isn't your cup of tea? Or have a quiet word with the Spitfire lads. I'm sure they would be more than happy to give you back your dosh - who needs the agro? 
But, maybe you don't understand the subtleties of the English language. Being a foreigner myself, I can empathise. But the McDonalds thing...In any culture, in any language, you'd be creating an international incident! Dear Sir, surely you realize that THIS MEANS WAR! ...And if I think of you as a Dick, I only mean as in "Cheney", not in the sense of the naughty word. It's the slight hysteria of your original post that made me think that one man's tuba is another man's weapons of mass destruction. Regardless of the reasoning of others.

Surely you where joking, and your french farce just went way over our heads?

And a Happy New Year to you, too!


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## Inductance (Jan 3, 2013)

blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I bought it because I thought I could reinforce my Low brass section and I just got patches that are completely useless.
> I see there is a big lack of dynamic in all of the orchestral patches, there is some ridiculous patches like the woodwind lo, that sound so bad and missing a lot of articulations.
> Every patch is really big using a lot of memory and the room sounds really bad, compare to other libraries like Cinebrass or Hollywood brass this is something so not pro.
> The loops on it are very old fashion and I guess that someone that has Omnispher will do something sounding better in a few minutes.
> ...



Wow, I could not disagree more. To my ears and fingers, Iceni seems to live up to the same level of quality as its other two Albion predecessors. And I absolutely love the Close Cellos/Close Basses options in the Low Strings. I think that Low String patch will be a go-to patch for me for many compositions to come...


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## José Herring (Jan 3, 2013)

I think the double 24 cellos patch would be worth the price. From what I've heard it sounds fantastic. I don't have it yet, but certainly plan on getting it as soon as I can.

As for the room sounds, I think it's pretty obvious from the demos that the room is great!


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## synergy543 (Jan 3, 2013)

Rctec @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> Bloomin' 'eck!!!
> 
> It's the McDonalds thing that stings... Poor Ned!
> 
> ...




What a great post! 

I think I've learned more about "professional tact and attitude" from this single post than I have about music and technology in the past year.

Thanks Hans


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## blooming (Jan 3, 2013)

Thanks for your response.
May be I will do that, I will work in some audio examples.
But I guess that then people will tell me that I dont know how to programming, je je.
So it will be an endless discussion.

Anyway have a nice day!




blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I think you are right!
> Good point
> All my respect
> PD. But I still don't like the room, it sounds so different to all of the other libraries, and it is too wet for me, I feel that It's inconsistent.
> ...


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## blooming (Jan 3, 2013)

If you have the Hollywood String library don't buy it, this has not comparison.




josejherring @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I think the double 24 cellos patch would be worth the price. From what I've heard it sounds fantastic. I don't have it yet, but certainly plan on getting it as soon as I can.
> 
> As for the room sounds, I think it's pretty obvious from the demos that the room is great!


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 3, 2013)

Now you've made me hungry, Francisco, really, really hungry! :evil:


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## rayinstirling (Jan 3, 2013)

It's amazing what a quick google check finds.


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## José Herring (Jan 3, 2013)

Blooming, I don't think that anybody is doubting that you found some flaws. But there isn't a product out there that doesn't have flaws.

Look to what you can do rather than what can't be done.

Plus I don't own a single library that I haven't had to dig under the hood to tighten up start points, fix a few loops or bad samples. I think that's pretty much par for the course unless of course you can't do that in this library. I wouldn't know.

Posting your examples will only point out the flaws and not point out the good points, which to me is equally unfair to the product creators.

Most products are created with a particular use in mind. Maybe that use isn't what you wanted or perhaps it isn't the way that you hear or write music. I think that's a person thing and not a fault of the Albion or Spitfire.

To be fair I've fallen into the same trap. Criticized things that I thought were "bad" only to find out that somebody else was using it just fine. I thought VSL was the most horrible sounding library in the history of mankind until I heard a few people that really knew how to use VSL. Same with some of the cinesamples stuff. I later realized how stupid it really is to do that.

Given that you've only had the library for a little while, I'd do what Craig S. suggested and find a use for it, before you start post "here's what's wrong with this library" demos.


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## germancomponist (Jan 3, 2013)

Huh...... . 

Salut, Prost, Cheers......, blooming! :mrgreen:


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## EwigWanderer (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm not a pro. I've done a few short movies and one of them is even at iTunes. My day job pays my bills and my daydream is to became a pro someday. 

I've spend a lot of my money on various libraries and some of them after getting them have caused me to yell, cry and regret of buying them, because I haven't liked them.
But still I respect developers for creating new sounds for us so much that I won't go to different forums to whine about it. They are good for some and not for others.

If you don't have the time to learn about something, before you buy it, then you don't have the time to insult others than yourself. 

BTW I love the sound of Albion 1 and will get 2 and 3 someday, hopefully soon o-[][]-o


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## pulse (Jan 3, 2013)

Hey Ned, I think we need to focus on healthy food... I'm trying to go on a diet and exercise routine for 2013... though a McApple could be quite tempting


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## The White Knight (Jan 3, 2013)

As things are going, I guess God Himself will come in a few minutes from the sky to protect Spitfire


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## guydoingmusic (Jan 3, 2013)

o[]) ......... o=?


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## valexnerfarious (Jan 3, 2013)

i would to remind everyone that Mcdonalds still has the mcrib right now...they usually only have during the holidays and then they take it off the menu till next christmas..get it while its still avalible


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## reid (Jan 3, 2013)

blooming @ 3rd January said:


> But I still don't like the room, it sounds so different to all of the other libraries, and it is too wet for me, I feel that It's inconsistent.



You're laying yourself wide open to ridicule - this is a library that offers 3 mic positions ( including a pretty dry 'close' mic), with each position being controllable for level, yet you say it's always too wet? Either you haven't attempted to understand the manual or you're trolling for your own amusements sake - whichever it is, sort yourself out and stop wasting people's time (o)


----------



## valexnerfarious (Jan 3, 2013)

im gonna go ahead and say it lol NOOB


----------



## Daniel James (Jan 3, 2013)

blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I bought it because I thought I could reinforce my Low brass section and I just got patches that are completely useless.
> I see there is a big lack of dynamic in all of the orchestral patches, there is some ridiculous patches like the woodwind lo, that sound so bad and missing a lot of articulations.
> Every patch is really big using a lot of memory and the room sounds really bad, compare to other libraries like Cinebrass or Hollywood brass this is something so not pro.
> The loops on it are very old fashion and I guess that someone that has Omnispher will do something sounding better in a few minutes.
> ...



Hello there blooming, 

First off you are entitled to your opinion, thats whats great about civilized society. I think its not what you said that heated this thread up (with the exception of the McDonalds comment, I love me some fast food  ) Its just how you said it. 

As someone who makes videos on sample libraries, I share my opinions on them all the time. The thing I learned quickest was that if you have something negative to say you have to be able to articulate whats not working and why its a bad thing for you...Also if you have the ability to actually show why its not for you that's even better.

I am sure everyone here has at some point spent money on something they thought was a 'rip off' but down the line they realize its their own fault really for not doing their research first. Before the library was released there were video demonstrations which showed pretty much every patch from the library so to say that you didn't get what you paid for is a little bit of a stretch.

Niche libraries such as this are nothing new in our industry. Not every library will do everything you want. 

The best way to look at this library is like this....sure you spent 300 Euro for the library and don't like it. But lets say down the line you need those huge cello sections, or that huge brass section, that 300 Euro looks alot cheaper than going to AIR, booking a large amount of the best players and hiring a good engineer. Perspective.

-DJ


----------



## dinerdog (Jan 3, 2013)

Time To Play


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jan 3, 2013)

The White Knight @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> As things are going, I guess God Himself will come in a few minutes from the sky to protect Spitfire



You mean Hans ISN"T God? :lol:


----------



## 667 (Jan 3, 2013)

"Soft Strings and Brass Test" very clearly shows the dynamics available to this product: http://www.spitfireaudio.com/albion-volume-iii-iceni
It gets demo'd in the walkthrough as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6QLzZtEODs
I wonder if OP actually has a technical issue (using old version of Kontakt?) because to my ears this library sounds great!



Guy Rowland @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I don't own Albion 3 - like Albion 1 and 2 they both ultimately felt like they overlapped a little too much in what I already have for the price, though they were all very tempting and I see they have many, many fans.


Oh boy do I know what you mean. I own LASS, HS, Adagio, Vienna DS, and still bought Albion II! I don't regret it at all though because many times it's my favourite of the bunch. Downloaded Iceni last night but haven't installed it yet. Can't wait!


----------



## Caedwallon (Jan 3, 2013)

I hate to break it to you lads, but the OP has unwittingly mentioned EW Hollywood Strings. You might wanna get behind some cover, cos **** is about to go down! 

*/grabs popcorn*


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jan 3, 2013)

Caedwallon @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I hate to break it to you lads, but the OP has unwittingly mentioned EW Hollywood Strings. You might wanna get behind some cover, cos **** is about to go down!
> 
> */grabs popcorn*



Do you really feel the need to _try_ to provoke arguments? It so, doesn't reflect well on you.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm really tempted to throw up the choc0trax signal, as night has fallen in our neighbourhood...


----------



## blooming (Jan 3, 2013)

I would like to say that I really admire you as a composer, and as a creative mind. I like the approach you use to film scoring navigating through the script and 
filling the emotions lost in the word's language within your music.

I have learn so much from your approach toward the films, for your sound innovation, I feel like talking to the modern Wagner!

I understand that you are where you are because your sensitivity, intelligence, common sense and diplomacy.


Please don't get me wrong! 
http://soundcloud.com/blooming-tv/the-happy-whitsh

Peace to everyone



Inductance @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > I bought it because I thought I could reinforce my Low brass section and I just got patches that are completely useless.
> ...


----------



## Chriss Ons (Jan 3, 2013)

Ah, 2013. New Year, Same /oo\ .



blooming @ 3rd January said:


> I bought it because I thought I could reinforce my Low brass section and I just got patches that are completely useless (...) I payed 300 euros for this and I think I will never use it.



... but I'll bet you a Happy Meal that in response to your example(s), plenty of people on here - not just the Spitfire guys - will gladly offer advice/help in order to make this library work for you after all.


----------



## quantum7 (Jan 3, 2013)

WOW....still cannot believe the OP's original post. >8o This thread has now solidified my decision to purchase Albion 3 next month.....and buy a Big Mac for dinner tonight.


----------



## blooming (Jan 3, 2013)

I would like to say that I really admire you as a composer, and as a creative mind. I like the approach you use to film scoring navigating through the script and 
filling the emotions lost in the word's language within your music. 

I have learn so much from your approach toward the films, for your sound innovation, I feel like talking to the modern Wagner! 

I understand that you are where you are because your sensitivity, intelligence, common sense and diplomacy. 


Please don't get me wrong! 
http://soundcloud.com/blooming-tv/the-happy-whitsh 

Peace to everyone 



Rctec @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> Bloomin' 'eck!!!
> 
> It's the McDonalds thing that stings... Poor Ned!
> 
> ...


----------



## Walid F. (Jan 3, 2013)

I love everything about Iceni, use it in basically every composition I make nowadays. Not sure what you're referring to that's really that unprofessional and bad sounding. The low woodwinds are really rich in the bass, have some great texture, the low brass shine in the lower dynamics, but also can punch hard in the higher. And the celli/basses are really rich and full. Oh, also the percussion is amazing. 

I'm in love with this library, but I guess it's a matter of opinion.


----------



## Arbee (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm just going into bat here slightly about the Albion room sound. I think we get confused sometimes about "good v bad" and "not to my taste". I'm one of those who, as much as I quite like my Spitfire Percussion library, decided the room sound isn't really to my taste and haven't invested in any other Albion products. Not saying it's bad, just not to my taste. I think that's fair.


----------



## Walid F. (Jan 3, 2013)

Arbee @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I'm just going into bat here slightly about the Albion room sound. I think we get confused sometimes about "good v bad" and "not to my taste". I'm one of those who, as much as I quite like my Spitfire Percussion library, decided the room sound isn't really to my taste and haven't invested in any other Albion products. Not saying it's bad, just not to my taste. I think that's fair.



There are many different mic settings as well, if you use more of the close and less of the tree/ambience/outrigger, you can experiment better with your own reverbs. 

But you are quite right - the room sound is a matter of taste, definitely not objective.


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 3, 2013)

blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> I have learn so much from your approach toward the films, for your sound innovation, I feel like talking to the modern Wagner!



About Wagner (for germans only...)

In the newest "Die Zeit" Newspaper, there is a very interesting article about Wagner!


----------



## blooming (Jan 3, 2013)

I am not talking ironically...
I love wagner!


germancomponist @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > I have learn so much from your approach toward the films, for your sound innovation, I feel like talking to the modern Wagner!
> ...


----------



## MacQ (Jan 3, 2013)

synergy543 @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> Rctec @ Thu Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Bloomin' 'eck!!!
> ...



HZ brings people together. And then has a drink with them. o-[][]-o


----------



## Arbee (Jan 3, 2013)

Walid F. @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> Arbee @ Thu Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just going into bat here slightly about the Albion room sound. I think we get confused sometimes about "good v bad" and "not to my taste". I'm one of those who, as much as I quite like my Spitfire Percussion library, decided the room sound isn't really to my taste and haven't invested in any other Albion products. Not saying it's bad, just not to my taste. I think that's fair.
> ...


Yes, I only use it heavily favouring the close mics. When I do this however I realise just how much the room contributes to the overall sonic personality of these libraries.

.


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 3, 2013)

MacQ @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> HZ brings people together. And then has a drink with them. o-[][]-o



I wonder if in his studio also is a refrigerator filled with delicious beer? If so, I will visit him .... .  (If he is willing to receive me). 

o-[][]-o


----------



## Studio E (Jan 3, 2013)

@ Hans, for future reference. Please, should it ever come up, call me a dick in the naughty way rather than the Cheney way. I'd much rather be referred to as naughty anatomy than THAT Dick, lol.


----------



## guydoingmusic (Jan 3, 2013)

germancomponist @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> MacQ @ Thu Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > HZ brings people together. And then has a drink with them. o-[][]-o
> ...



So we are all meeting at RC for drinks?? Cool... I'm in! Since Hans is supplying the beer, I'll bring some McDonald's fries and Apple Pies!! What are you guys bringing?


----------



## Andreas Moisa (Jan 3, 2013)

In N Out Burger's fries ANIMAL STYLE!


----------



## The White Knight (Jan 3, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> The White Knight @ Thu Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > As things are going, I guess God Himself will come in a few minutes from the sky to protect Spitfire
> ...


----------



## valexnerfarious (Jan 3, 2013)

i got desert lol


----------



## Bernard Duc (Jan 3, 2013)

> So we are all meeting at RC for drinks?? Cool... I'm in! Since Hans is supplying the beer, I'll bring some McDonald's fries and Apple Pies!! What are you guys bringing? Razz


 Ok, we eat the fries and apple pies and drink the beers. And the I bring the ultimate swiss fondue with some wine... There is nothing best to make it up!


----------



## valexnerfarious (Jan 3, 2013)

i remember seeing hans smoking in older interviews...since there is gonna be alot of us...ill supply the smokes...marlboros good with everyone?


----------



## MichaelL (Jan 3, 2013)

I learned how to make spaetzle from my grandmother. o-[][]-o


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 3, 2013)

Maybe the OP should rename this thread, Albion 3: What a Party!


----------



## Per Lichtman (Jan 3, 2013)

I think this thread is a really good illustration of communication styles, buying approaches, evaluation approaches, etc.

@blooming I'd like to try to extract the information from your post in as neutral a fashion as possible and then respond to it. I hope that doesn't feel pedantic or condescending, as it is only my intent to clarify the data side so it's clear I'm not responding to tone. Please let me know if I miss my mark and inadvertently offend you so I can remedy that.

Note: This is written from the perspective that you already know how to make good mock-ups since that seems to be the consensus here.

- You bought Spitfire Audio Albion III Iceni to use alongside your existing low brass but were surprised that the patches have not been as useful to you as you had expected.

That is unfortunate. Providing even more details on what you had expected and how you are using it would be helpful.

Albion III is very different from many other libraries in terms of approach and recording style, something that is more apparent from watching the video walkthrough than from the demos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6QLzZtEODs

I make it a policy to try watch video walkthroughs and read the patch list, read the manual (when available) and things of that nature before buying a library to try to clarify my expectations for a library before I get it. If there are still surprises when it arrives, my first response is usually to contact the developer.

If the developer is unreachable or unpleasant, I'll often go the forums for assistance but the tone is very important.

If you give people a chance to help, they often will. Taking responsibility and being respectful can really help. The customer may "always be right" but no one likes to be dealt with unpleasantly. 

- You are not getting the dynamic range out of it that you had expected.

My first questions would be which methods you are using to control it and to test it? One of the most helpful things I often do with any Kontakt library that supports it is to open the edit window, go into "mapping" and see how many dynamic layers are available. Then I'll usually audition each one to see how much timbral variation there is.

If the timbral variation isn't there in the samples, then the only way to bring it in is through alternate programming/mixing approaches (filtering, EQ, etc.) and the issue is fundamental to the library recordings.

If the variation is there, then I usually look at whether the library provides different ways to access the dynamics (velocity, modwheel, expression pedal, etc.) to try to get the most out of it.

Also be aware that in mult-mic libraries, the dynamic range tends to be much wider in closer microphone positions than in distant ones (unless the microphones themselves are so different from each other that it overrides the natural recording differences).

- You feel that the patch "Woodwind Lo" does not have the tone you want and you wish it had more articulations. 

Could you elaborate on the tone and articulations that you wanted?

- Memory demands are higher than you anticipated.

What memory usage were you looking for and which microphone position(s) did you use?

- The room tone is very different from the other libraries you like to use, and which you prefer.

This is a very personal and subjective area.If you don't like it, I respect and understand that, especially if your main intent was to mix with libraries recorded in a drier fashion.

Personally, I really like the room tone of the Spitfire Audio commercial range and their microphone/recording format choices. There are cases (like Spitfire Solo Strings) where I have concerns about how well I could mix it with other libraries, but generally I wish that my other libraries sounded like they were recorded at Air Lyndhurst, not the other way around.


The Spitfire Audio commercial range libraries are not designed to be as flexible or as dry as some competing libraries. They are designed to get a certain kind of sound as easily and with as good sound quality as Spitfire Audio could achieve. From what I hear, they succeed very well in doing that.

But I am sorry to hear that you bought a library that turned out to be something different than you had expected. As I mentioned earlier, I suggest using as many resources (videos, articulation lists, manulas, etc.) as you can to find out about a library before buying it.

I wish you much better luck the next time. I hope that in this case you find the library has a lot more to offer now that you have a better sense of the library and know that it may not be what you had expected. And if you find it does not work for you, I hope that you and Spitfire Audio can come to some sort of understanding that works for both of you.

No one wants to inadvertently buy libraries that aren't a good fit for them. The economic times are challenging for many and at the same time developers spend a huge amount of resources (time, effort and often money) to make the libraries possible. That's part of why I think developers generally prefer that the people that buy their libraries are those that would enjoy them or get a lot out of them.

It's important to keep in mind that a lot of people have very compatible goals in this equation.


----------



## synthetic (Jan 3, 2013)

Hans had 19" rackmount wine racks the last time I visited.


----------



## dhlkid (Jan 3, 2013)

I have all 3 Albion, Hollywood Brass & Cinebrass Pro. Cinebrass Pro still not have a chance to fit in my music. I tried Samplemodeling but dont like it.


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 3, 2013)

valexnerfarious @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> i would to remind everyone that Mcdonalds still has the mcrib right now...they usually only have during the holidays and then they take it off the menu till next christmas..get it while its still avalible



ROFL


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## valexnerfarious (Jan 3, 2013)

lol i kinda liked that one to Peter.


----------



## MichaelL (Jan 3, 2013)

Peter's ROFL because he's a Southern gentleman who KNOWS what ribs are.
And they are definitely NOT what MickyD's calls ribs.

McRibs are made of "restructured meat". Specifically, tripe, hearts, & scalded stomach chunks, which are mixed with salt and water to break down& remove protein so it can be molded into a "slab shape". It also contains over 70 ingredients, one of which is a flour bleaching agent that is used to make yoga mats and it usually used to bleach foamed plastic products. >8o

Now: back to our regularly scheduled thread....


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## valexnerfarious (Jan 3, 2013)

I have to say michael...i did not know that..that makes question do i want to eat anymore of them lol...amazing what you will learn on here


----------



## Daniel James (Jan 3, 2013)

MichaelL @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> Peter's ROFL because he's a Southern gentleman who KNOWS what ribs are.
> And they are definitely NOT what MickyD's calls ribs.
> 
> McRibs are made of "restructured meat". Specifically, tripe, hearts, & scalded stomach chunks, which are mixed with salt and water to break down& remove protein so it can be molded into a "slab shape". It also contains over 70 ingredients, one of which is a flour bleaching agent that is used to make yoga mats and it usually used to bleach foamed plastic products. >8o
> ...



But it tastes so delicious! That's what matters to me  

-DJ


----------



## musophrenic (Jan 3, 2013)

Daniel James @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> MichaelL @ Thu Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Peter's ROFL because he's a Southern gentleman who KNOWS what ribs are.
> ...



Just make sure you watch all the McDonald's video walkthroughs before you decide to purchase your next McRib ... Or maybe that should be your next overview vid so we can all make an informed decision (and maybe Peter might change his mind and reconsider them)


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## valexnerfarious (Jan 3, 2013)

maybe this will help everyone make a decision on if they want the mcrib or not..but im with Daniel..they sure are good lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBdEBEq4Reo

Informative and educational


----------



## dgburns (Jan 3, 2013)

valexnerfarious @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> maybe this will help everyone make a decision on if they want the mcrib or not..but im with Daniel..they sure are good lol
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBdEBEq4Reo
> 
> Informative and educational



as usual"wrong way burns" here- late to the party again.... will be havng McD's for lunch tomorrow FOR SURE now.ribs or no ribs.

basterds. :mrgreen: 

oh yeah,was there some talk about lo brass here somewhere?


----------



## valexnerfarious (Jan 3, 2013)

this one is a gut buster...must see lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=985IjcpZ0TA


----------



## dgburns (Jan 3, 2013)

valexnerfarious @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> this one is a gut buster...must see lol
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=985IjcpZ0TA



er....is that english?


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jan 3, 2013)

valexnerfarious @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> maybe this will help everyone make a decision on if they want the mcrib or not..but im with Daniel..they sure are good lol
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBdEBEq4Reo
> 
> Informative and educational



Funny, I don't think they are all that good.


----------



## noldar12 (Jan 3, 2013)

A bit OT, but I can't resist:

Peter is right. McRib is, well...

In the same way what most call B-B-Q isn't real B-B-Q, but grilling (not the same thing).

There is nothing like fall-off-the-bone slow-cooked real B-B-Q. Since the cooking temperature is kept so low, when the tendons in the meat relax, they do not tighten back up as they do when cooked at a higher temperature.


----------



## noldar12 (Jan 3, 2013)

A bit OT, but I can't resist:

Peter is right. McRib is, well...

In the same way what most call B-B-Q isn't real B-B-Q, but grilling (not the same thing).

There is nothing like fall-off-the-bone slow-cooked real B-B-Q. Since the cooking temperature is kept so low, when the tendons in the meat relax, they do not tighten back up as they do when cooked at a higher temperature.


----------



## Peter Alexander (Jan 3, 2013)

noldar12 @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> A bit OT, but I can't resist:
> 
> Peter is right. McRib is, well...
> 
> ...



I have two REAL Southern BBQs within minutes of where I live now. Everything is smoked to perfection. On my deck, I have a Weber gas grill with which I use apple wood chunks to smoke brisket, Boston butt pork shoulders, chicken, salmon. I cook slow

McRib? Mc Nuts!

Even if you're snowbound in an apt - get a Cameron Stove Top Smoker. I got one for Christmas a few years back. Read and drool:
http://www.amazon.com/Camerons-Products-Stovetop-Smoker-Collection/dp/B0002HSF9Y/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1357278915&sr=8-5&keywords=cameron+smoker (http://www.amazon.com/Camerons-Products ... ron+smoker)


----------



## Peter Alexander (Jan 3, 2013)

Daniel James @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> MichaelL @ Thu Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Peter's ROFL because he's a Southern gentleman who KNOWS what ribs are.
> ...



Oh. Dude.

Write me before you next go to L.A. I'll point you to some places in "that" south with real BBQ. There aren't too many, but what's there is good.


----------



## Guy Rowland (Jan 3, 2013)

Hmm. Perhaps it would be helpful if we broadened this thread out a little. Who's gonna win the World Series this year? How's that weather we've been having? Where do you see theoretical physics going in a post-Higgs age?


----------



## NYC Composer (Jan 3, 2013)

It warms Larry's heart to find free speech allowed AND civility defended- in the same thread! Maybe there's hope for the InterWeb yet.

o-[][]-o


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## Synesthesia (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks guys for your ideas! Christian and I will not only be serving the martinis but also some particularly fine British Real Ale - served as usual, luke warm and slightly flat. LOVELY!

In the meantime, later today we'll be sending out your thank you 15% vouchers and the first update to Iceni - v1.1:


-- 30 NEW Cue Starter Synth patches 

-- THE COG allowing you to tweak Iceni's individual notes, round robins and releases to your taste (_Tweakable_ folders). More configuration options coming soon!

-- Strings Lo - Jump in the CC dynamics fixed.

-- New bipolar Time machine mode - 'Stretch' allows you to slow down as well as speed up shorts

-- Automation Parameters now mapped for both MIDI and Host automation

-- Ability to route each microphone to a different output channel in Kontakt by clicking the mic initial

-- Synth patches now K5 encoded and will work in Kontakt Player

-- CC controls parameters now named properly after the CC slider dragged to it

-- Ability to toggle two-handed mode within percussion instruments

-- Various articulation renames for consistency with previous Albion range. All now included in preset menu settings

-- Loop menus now preview the currently playing loop name. Also fixed to work with note transpose.

-- Loop patches make it more obvious that you need to select a loop to tempo sync.

-- Redesigned the layout of the Ostinatum page

-- New graphics for the buttons and sliders

-- All controls should now have mouse-over help

-- Various fixes from VI-C (Orch. Loop points, blue key range, Neighbour zones, etc.)


----------



## NYC Composer (Jan 4, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> Daniel James @ Thu Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > MichaelL @ Thu Jan 03 said:
> ...



There's even 'cue in NYC these days. 20 years ago, there was virtually none


----------



## Caedwallon (Jan 4, 2013)

Synesthesia @ 4th January said:


> Thanks guys for your ideas! Christian and I will not only be serving the martinis but also some particularly fine British Real Ale - served as usual, luke warm and slightly flat. LOVELY!
> 
> In the meantime, later today we'll be sending out your thank you 15% vouchers and the first update to Iceni - v1.1:
> 
> ...



That looks like an awesome update! Thank you!


----------



## MA-Simon (Jan 4, 2013)

> -- New bipolar Time machine mode - 'Stretch' allows you to slow down as well as speed up shorts


Nice!

Now, can you please update the Solo Strings with the Round Robin Script from Albion II please, please, please, PLEASE? o/~


----------



## jamwerks (Jan 4, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> New bipolar Time machine mode - 'Stretch' allows you to slow down as well as speed up shorts)



Wow!! Can you explain how that works? Is that something of your's (kontakt add-on)? Could that be implemented on your other libraries?


----------



## blooming (Jan 4, 2013)

Ok so I will be a little bit more technical this time and I will try not to hurt anyone’s feelings.
Talking about the Dynamics:
In the Brass Lo long patch when I put my moodwheel to the bottom I listen a very quiet sound, to my ears it doesn’t sound like brasses doing pp, it sound like brasses doing mf with the volume down.
Then if I move the moodwheel to the half I can listen the introduction of another layer with a brass section playing F but with the volume down again, so I am missing some layers in between.

Finally when I move my moodwheel up to the top I would expect to have a big FF screaming out, but I listen a brass section playing F with the volume up. 
What I also don’t understand is why the articulation Nasty longs is separated, it would be better that will be the top layer of the Longs articulation. In my experience I won’t be able to do so much with it isolated as it only has one layer. If you put your moodwheel to the bottom on this patch you will listen FF brass with the volume down.
The legato is ok but aging if you put the moodwheel up to the top it should sound ff brass and it sounds only mf.
The shorts articulation in the brass are missing some layers, if you play soft your midi controller it will sound mf and if you play a little bit harder it will start sounding the ff staccato layer, but not transition.
The FX section of the brass lo is ok but I’m missing crescendos, and decrescendos between others articulations
Woodwind Lo Patch: Even if the staccato patch has rounb robin x 4, I ‘m missing a more dirty sound in one of the layers so that we have really the sensation of the real thing.
I’m also missing a staccattisimo patch, the longs in the woodwind Lo are again only two layers with the volume tricked( I think, at list is the impression I have).

I think I could say the same with every orchestral patch...

Regarding to the loops, I think I would prefer to have only more orchestral patches, more layers on it, more Dynamic range, than have this long list of loops. For me this is a separated product.

I was missing a little bit more of generosity in to the percussion patches, only one patch?
I could continue with the other presets but I don’t have the time, I think, I have explained a bit what I meant about the absence of dynamic and layering.
Regarding to the room I agree this could be a thing of taste, but as a friend advise me to say, not my coupe of tea.



Per Lichtman @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> I think this thread is a really good illustration of communication styles, buying approaches, evaluation approaches, etc.
> 
> @blooming I'd like to try to extract the information from your post in as neutral a fashion as possible and then respond to it. I hope that doesn't feel pedantic or condescending, as it is only my intent to clarify the data side so it's clear I'm not responding to tone. Please let me know if I miss my mark and inadvertently offend you so I can remedy that.
> 
> ...


----------



## George Caplan (Jan 4, 2013)

valexnerfarious @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> this one is a gut buster...must see lol
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=985IjcpZ0TA



they laid that onion game down flat. 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## radec (Jan 4, 2013)

blooming @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> The shorts articulation in the brass are missing some layers, if you play soft your midi controller it will sound mf and if you play a little bit harder it will start sounding the ff staccato layer, but not transition...


i think ya might be misusing the word missing... i dont think spitfire audio said anywhere ther were pp or ff or cresc/dim or staccattisimo etc so they are not 'missing'. those are your assumptions ya made before buying without checkin



blooming @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> I was missing a little bit more of generosity in to the percussion patches, only one patch?


this threw me off too. i was used to the way alb 1/2 did things with a lot of perc patches, but then i realized that ya have multiple instruments all in one so really its 8 patches that are keyswitched. ya can find the individ. ones in the template folder.



blooming @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> Regarding to the room I agree this could be a thing of taste, but as a friend advise me to say, not my coupe of tea.


personally i love the room but i gotta wonder why ya bought the lib if the room is not to ya taste. the walkthru vids and demos clearly tell ya ears the sound of the room


----------



## Caedwallon (Jan 4, 2013)

blooming @ 4th January said:


> Ok so I will be a little bit more technical this time and I will try not to hurt anyone’s feelings.
> Talking about the Dynamics:
> In the Brass Lo long patch when I put my moodwheel to the bottom I listen a very quiet sound, to my ears it doesn’t sound like brasses doing pp, it sound like brasses doing mf with the volume down.
> Then if I move the moodwheel to the half I can listen the introduction of another layer with a brass section playing F but with the volume down again, so I am missing some layers in between.
> ...



If only you'd posted this first instead of the rage! 

Some of the things that you've pointed out here are genuinely valid, especially with regards to the Nasty Longs patch. As for the dynamic jump issue, v1.1 patch notes show a relevant fix and it's due out today. You can play staccatissimo parts using the TM (Time Machine) patches. 

I think this is your first Albion purchase, which is probably why you're surprised about the somewhat limited range in dynamics as compared to something like HS or HB (both of which are dedicated section libraries and cost twice as much until the recent price cuts). The longs have 2 layers of dynamics, mp and f (this is also the case in Albion 2). Afaik, this is by design. Considering I purchased my Spitfire load-out at discounts and how good Albion sounds, I can't really justify complaining about this and I remain in favour of Spitfire.


----------



## blooming (Jan 4, 2013)

Caedwallon @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> blooming @ 4th January said:
> 
> 
> > Ok so I will be a little bit more technical this time and I will try not to hurt anyone’s feelings.
> ...



Sure I am agree with you, the other cost twice and they are dedicated libraries,
the problem is that with this price I am not getting even the quarter of them, you see what I mean? My problem was always the price.
So considering the price I thought this will be the CINEMATIC LOW-END APOCALYPSE lybrary that I wanted, 4 orchestral patches but really nice each one.
with nice end.


----------



## Malo (Jan 4, 2013)

> Talking about the Dynamics:
> In the Brass Lo long patch when I put my moodwheel to the bottom I listen a very quiet sound, to my ears it doesn’t sound like brasses doing pp, it sound like brasses doing mf with the volume down.
> Then if I move the moodwheel to the half I can listen the introduction of another layer with a brass section playing F but with the volume down again, so I am missing some layers in between.



Hi, Blooming!
I own every commercially available library from Spitfire Audio, except Albion 3. I skipped this one because the orchestral patches didn't seem to be my cup of tea. I think the criticism in your latest post is fair. If only this was your initial post, all would be good. :wink: 

I think you said earlier that you use Samplemodeling libraries. The dynamics of the Albion libraries, or any other for that matter, are not comparable to these. At Albion's price point, it's just not possible to record every dynamic layer. Recording at Air Lyndhurst is very expensive, as it should be. As a result, there might be examples where some dynamic layers sound turned up/down in volume, instead of changing timbre. As a first time buyer of the Albion libraries, and a fairly new member of vi-control, this isn't something you would necessarily know anything about before buying. Posting questions about these things here is what makes this forum so valuable.




> What I also don’t understand is why the articulation Nasty longs is separated, it would be better that will be the top layer of the Longs articulation.



Now, this is a good suggestion! You might not be the only one who would like this. If you send a nice email to Spitfire with your suggestion, they might consider creating a patch like that for an update. After reading the patch list just before the release of Albion 2, I noticed that there were quite a few articulations that lacked full string patches. I posted my wish for more full string patches in the Albion 2 thread, and a few HOURS later the good chaps at Spitfire had programmed and included them for the initial release. Now, that is good customer service. They are really nice guys!




> Regarding to the loops, I think I would prefer to have only more orchestral patches, more layers on it, more Dynamic range, than have this long list of loops. For me this is a separated product.
> 
> I was missing a little bit more of generosity in to the percussion patches, only one patch?



This one, I feel you have to blame yourself for not checking out the patch list before buying. The whole Albion series is a mix of orchestral content and loops for cinematic use. No secrets, there! 8) 

Best wishes and welcome to the forum! Use it well and you will never again need to buy a library you don't know anything about.


----------



## Ed (Jan 4, 2013)

blooming @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> Sure I am agree with you, the other cost twice and they are dedicated libraries,
> the problem is that with this price I am not getting even the quarter of them, you see what I mean? My problem was always the price.
> So considering the price I thought this will be the CINEMATIC LOW-END APOCALYPSE lybrary that I wanted, 4 orchestral patches but really nice each one.
> with nice end.



It seems like you aren't getting much because they are all mega key switch patches. Albion 1 didn't have this and had them all separate so it felt like you we're getting more. Albion 2 then only has one patch per section, but you're still getting lots of content they are just keyswitches.

It's pretty clear you didn't research the library at all, it's not like there was an absence of information. There's also even more information on their other libraries, Albion 1 and 2 and the percussion so you would have known what the room was going to sound like, and knew what their philosophy was (ie not super detailed). There is no excuse for complaining as if its their fault you didn't bother to look further than maybe the teaser video and specs and just cross your fingers and press buy and hope it would be exactly what you wanted. 

To claim its useless is stupid and insulting, the Albion series like Symphobia is highly useful to those that work a certain way, but for others they can be very difficult to work into their process. As a developer it's important to provide information for customers to understand what they are buying, Spitfire have done everything short of playable demo patches. Ok so it's not a library you "get" because your process is apparently very different, but don't act like you had no way of knowing what the product was about or that others are somehow idiots if their process finds these libraries highly useful. PS comparing it to something like Sample Modelling really shows how little you understood what you were buying and what you really thought would be available in a library of that price. 

My advice. Don't buy anymore Spitfire products, or Symphobia-like products, but do make sure you research before you hit the buy button.

*Edit:* also you have to realise that it does not cost the same to produce synth patches compared to recording more content. You can't just say "see look how many more loop and synth patches there are!". Costs are next to nothing to get that stuff made compared with recording in a famous expensive studio with tons of musicians for hours


----------



## Walid F. (Jan 4, 2013)

Ed @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> blooming @ Fri Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > Sure I am agree with you, the other cost twice and they are dedicated libraries,
> ...



+1


----------



## Synesthesia (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi Blooming.

Iceni is a low end library. It has ensemble performances. I think you would benefit from actually reading the manual as you would understand how to use the patches - as has been explained - the percussion is 8 ensembles compiled into one keyswitch patch.

At the price you bought it - £245 - you have a multimic world class group of musicians - find me a comparable group of 24 Celli and 8 Basses recorded in legato together please...

Oh - ! 

There isn't one..!

Just try using it for a few days.

We worked out while recording the strings that if we stopped for 30 seconds so that someone could tell a joke, we would have wasted around £150.

This was INSANELY expensive to record.

I am posting a patch list next.

Thanks,

Paul


----------



## Synesthesia (Jan 4, 2013)

The Albion Orchestra	Brass Lo.nki	Shorts	
Iceni Sessions Longs	
Nasty Longs	
Legato	
Rips Down	
Rips Up	
FX 1	
FX 2	
FX 3	
FX 4	

String Lo (Cellos).nki	Shorts	
Longs	
Longs CS	
Legato A	
Legato A (port)	
Legato B	
Legato B (port)	

String Lo.nki	Short	
Stac	
Longs 
Legato	
Legato (port)	

Woodwinds Lo.nki	Shorts	
Shorts Extras	
Longs	
Legato	
Rips Down	
Rips Up	
FX 1	
FX 2	
FX 3	
FX 4	




_Combined_	Brass and Winds BR4.nki	Shorts
Longs
Legato

Cello A and Cello B BR5.nki	Short
Longs
Legato
Legato (Port)

Strings and Brass BR3.nki	Shorts
Longs
Legato

Strings and Winds BR4.nki	Shorts
Longs
Legato

Strings, Winds and Brass BR3.nki	Shorts
Longs
Legato

_Palette shells for templates_	Brass Lo.nki	Shorts
Longs
Nasty Longs
Legato
Rips Down
Rips Up
FX 1
FX 2
FX 3
FX 4

String Lo (Cellos).nki	Shorts
Longs
Longs CS
Legato A
Legato A (port)
Legato B
Legato B (port)

String Lo.nki	Short
Stac
Longs 
Legato
Legato (port)

Woodwinds Lo.nki	Shorts
Shorts Extras
Longs
Legato
Rips Down
Rips Up
FX 1
FX 2
FX 3
FX 4

_Time Machine patches_	Brass Lo.nki	Shorts

String Lo (Cellos).nki	Shorts

String Lo.nki	Shorts
Stacc

Woodwinds Lo.nki	Shorts
Shorts Extra

_Tweakable_	Brass Lo BR5 AB4.nki	Shorts
Longs
Nasty Longs
Legato
Rips Down
Rips Up
FX 1
FX 2
FX 3
FX 4

String Lo (Cellos) AB7 BR7.nki	Shorts
Longs
Longs CS
Legato A
Legato A (port)
Legato B
Legato B (port)

String Lo AB6 BR6.nki	Short
Stac
Longs 
Legato
Legato (port)

Woodwinds Lo BR5 AB4.nki	Shorts
Shorts Extras
Longs
Legato
Rips Down
Rips Up
FX 1
FX 2
FX 3
FX 4

Darwin Percussion III	Darwin Percussion III.nki	2 Bass Drums, 1 Taiko	
2 Bass Drums, 2 Table Taiko	
Medium Low Taiko	
Orange Drum	
Small Taiko 1	
Small Taiko 2	
Table Taiko + Orange Drum	
Table Taiko	


_Palette Shells For Templates_	2 Bass Drums, 1 Taiko.nki	
2 Bass Drums, 2 Table Taiko.nki	
Medium Low Taiko.nki	
Orange Drum.nki	
Small Taiko 1.nki	
Small Taiko 2.nki	
Table Taiko + Orange Drum.nki	
Table Taiko.nki	

_Tweakable_	Darwin Percussion III.nki	2 Bass Drums, 1 Taiko
2 Bass Drums, 2 Table Taiko
Medium Low Taiko
Orange Drum
Small Taiko 1
Small Taiko 2
Table Taiko + Orange Drum
Table Taiko

Brunel Loops	1 The Flight A Loops.nki	Banjo Detune 6-8 100bpm 
Broody Music Box 4-4 87bpm 
Click Echo 4-4 65bpm TM 
Clocks BIG 4-4 120bpm 
Drive 4-4 80bpm 
Ellis2 4-4 75bpm 
Ellis4 80bpm (Triplet Feel) 
Fack Bass 4-4 100bpm 
Fackhead 4-4 110bpm 
Harry Bass1 4-4 130bpm 
Harry Bass3 6-8 90bpm 
Harry Bass5 4-4 85bpm 
Harry Triplet Clean 6-8 80bpm 
Harry Triplet Dirty 6-8 80bpm 
Kalimdetune 6-8 84bpm 
KNAS 6-8 105bpm 

2 The Flight B Loops.nki	Medieval Swell 4-4 65bpm 
Mic Dirge 4-4 100bpm 
Moody Clavichord 4-4 90bpm 
Fack Bat 4-4 76.4bpm 
New Pasto 4-4 120bpm 
Pdaw Guitar 4-4 78bpm 
Predator 4-4 92bpm 
Ray Tube 4-4 110bpm 
Rogue Trader 6-8 90bpm 
Sea Swell 4-4 79bpm 
Steamloop 4-4 120bpm 
Stress Monkey 4-4 80bpm 
Sus Trem 4-4 90bpm 
Tabla 4-4 143bpm 
Ukedetune 4-4 85bpm 

3 Christian's Loops.nki	Anger 100bpm	
Chopped Buzzpfer 120bpm	
Cultured Buzzpfer 80bpm	
Cultured Marauder 80bpm	
Cultured Monster 120bpm	
Cultured Westway 130bpm	
Dark Buzzpfer 80bpm	
Darker Buzzpfer 80bpm	
Fat Coaster 120bpm	
Lies Feedback	
Marauder 80bpm	
Monster Chess 1	
Monster Chess 2	
Monster Guitars Nasty 80bpm	
Monster Knocking 80bpm	
Plugageddon 110bpm	
Sliced Life 80bpm	
Sliced Light 80bpm	
Thunderarena 90bpm	
Westway 130bpm	

4 Gabriel's Loops.nki	Alien 2 135bpm	
Complicit 94bpm	
Cranium Drill 88bpm	
Dark Funker 96bpm	
Destroy 120bpm	
Epic 2 130bpm	
Epic Mess 130bpm	
Flew 132bpm TM	
Industrial Darkness 120bpm	
Leaving It 118bpm TM	
Loosing Touch 120bpm TM	
Marching Party 135bpm TM	
Poppy Fields 65bpm TM	
Spun 2 142bpm	
Take Flight 145bpm TM	
Tough 127bpm	
Tribal Dirt 135bpm	
Under Duress 135bpm	

5 Hybrid A Loops.nki	Bouncer 90bpm	
Bouncing Grenade 84bpm	
Broodsome 87bpm	
Broodsome Fooked 87bpm	
Clecho 65 bpm	
Delhi 130bpm	
Dirgo 100bpm	
Donkey 80bpm	
Donkey Fooked 80bpm	
End Of The World 76.4bpm	
Filetrup 78bpm	
Fridge 80bpm	
Giant's Causeway 85bpm	
GrabndStand 105bpm	
Headzone 110bpm	
Hybrid fix	

6 Hybrid B Loops.nki	LineMan 65bpm	
Nodding 120bpm	
Not Very Happy 100bpm	
Not Very Fooked 100bpm	
Predate 92bpm	
Questions 100bpm	
Questions Fooked 100bpm	
Rattlesnake 75bpm	
Rider 80bpm	
Roguester 90bpm	
Rolling 80bpm	
Shantyesque 79bpm	
Simple Fuzzlatron 90bpm	
Subtronic 55bpm	
Supercool 80bpm	
Tablear 143bpm	
Trematron 90bpm	

_Non TM Pro Loops_	1 The Flight A Loops.nki	Banjo Detune 6-8 100bpm 
Broody Music Box 4-4 87bpm 
Click Echo 4-4 65bpm TM 
Clocks BIG 4-4 120bpm 
Drive 4-4 80bpm 
Ellis2 4-4 75bpm 
Ellis4 80bpm (Triplet Feel) 
Fack Bass 4-4 100bpm 
Fackhead 4-4 110bpm 
Harry Bass1 4-4 130bpm 
Harry Bass3 6-8 90bpm 
Harry Bass5 4-4 85bpm 
Harry Triplet Clean 6-8 80bpm 
Harry Triplet Dirty 6-8 80bpm 
Kalimdetune 6-8 84bpm 
KNAS 6-8 105bpm 

2 The Flight B Loops.nki	Medieval Swell 4-4 65bpm 
Mic Dirge 4-4 100bpm 
Moody Clavichord 4-4 90bpm 
Fack Bat 4-4 76.4bpm 
New Pasto 4-4 120bpm 
Pdaw Guitar 4-4 78bpm 
Predator 4-4 92bpm 
Ray Tube 4-4 110bpm 
Rogue Trader 6-8 90bpm 
Sea Swell 4-4 79bpm 
Steamloop 4-4 120bpm 
Stress Monkey 4-4 80bpm 
Sus Trem 4-4 90bpm 
Tabla 4-4 143bpm 
Ukedetune 4-4 85bpm


----------



## Synesthesia (Jan 4, 2013)

3 Christian's Loops.nki	Anger 100bpm
Chopped Buzzpfer 120bpm
Cultured Buzzpfer 80bpm
Cultured Marauder 80bpm
Cultured Monster 120bpm
Cultured Westway 130bpm
Dark Buzzpfer 80bpm
Darker Buzzpfer 80bpm
Fat Coaster 120bpm
Lies Feedback
Marauder 80bpm
Monster Chess 1
Monster Chess 2
Monster Guitars Nasty 80bpm
Monster Knocking 80bpm
Plugageddon 110bpm
Sliced Life 80bpm
Sliced Light 80bpm
Thunderarena 90bpm
Westway 130bpm

4 Gabriel's Loops.nki	Alien 2 135bpm
Complicit 94bpm
Cranium Drill 88bpm
Dark Funker 96bpm
Destroy 120bpm
Epic 2 130bpm
Epic Mess 130bpm
Flew 132bpm TM
Industrial Darkness 120bpm
Leaving It 118bpm TM
Loosing Touch 120bpm TM
Marching Party 135bpm TM
Poppy Fields 65bpm TM
Spun 2 142bpm
Take Flight 145bpm TM
Tough 127bpm
Tribal Dirt 135bpm
Under Duress 135bpm

5 Hybrid A Loops.nki	Bouncer 90bpm
Bouncing Grenade 84bpm
Broodsome 87bpm
Broodsome Fooked 87bpm
Clecho 65 bpm
Delhi 130bpm
Dirgo 100bpm
Donkey 80bpm
Donkey Fooked 80bpm
End Of The World 76.4bpm
Filetrup 78bpm
Fridge 80bpm
Giant's Causeway 85bpm
GrabndStand 105bpm
Headzone 110bpm
Hybrid fix

6 Hybrid B Loops.nki	LineMan 65bpm
Nodding 120bpm
Not Very Happy 100bpm
Not Very Fooked 100bpm
Predate 92bpm
Questions 100bpm
Questions Fooked 100bpm
Rattlesnake 75bpm
Rider 80bpm
Roguester 90bpm
Rolling 80bpm
Shantyesque 79bpm
Simple Fuzzlatron 90bpm
Subtronic 55bpm
Supercool 80bpm
Tablear 143bpm
Trematron 90bpm

Stephenson's Steam Band III	Steam Pads	Archdeacon Dirty.nki	
Archdeacon Modulation Vowalation.nki	
Archdeacon.nki	
Archdeacon's Stepwise Modwheel Dark - Light.nki	
Bass Wind Modulation = Flem.nki	
Bass Wind.nki	
Brass 1 ff Stereo Triangulator.nki	
Brass 1 ff.nki	
Brass 1 mf Stepwise.nki	
Brass 1 mf.nki	
Dark Organ + Mosquito & MWheel Rhythmics.nki	
Dark Organ.nki	
Deep Choir Rhythmatron.nki	
Deep Choir.nki	
Eerie Scrape.nki	
Eirie Snow Storm - MW = No Of Flakes.nki	
Fagin Factory Inside.nki	
Fagin Factory.nki	
Fagin Through A Sea Shell MW = Shell Motion.nki	
Ghost Strings Stepped.nki	
Ghost Strings.nki	
Satanic Machinery Switched On.nki	
Satanic Machinery.nki	
Swamp Gate Gated.nki	
Swamp Gate.nki	
Wasteland Dissapates.nki	
Wasteland Gated MW Down For Cool HHat.nki	
Wasteland MW Down For Glitch Hi Hat.nki	
Wasteland.nki	

Steam Octavium	Blow Brass 6ths.nki	
Blow Brass 8ths.nki	
Blow Brass 12ths.nki	
Blow Brass 16ths.nki	
Dirty Dream.nki	
Dirty Mess.nki	
Dirty Pan.nki	
Dirty Woods 1.nki	
Dirty Woods 2.nki	
Gritty Brass 6ths.nki	
Gritty Brass 8ths.nki	
Gritty Brass 12ths.nki	
Gritty Brass 16ths.nki	
Gritty Brass Octaves 2.nki	6ths
8ths
16ths
Gritty Brass Octaves.nki	8ths
12ths
16ths
6th feel
Gritty Brass Swell Distort.nki	6ths
8ths
12ths
Strings 16th.nki	
Strings Dirty 16th.nki	
Strings Octave 8ths.nki	
Woods 16ths.nki	
Woods Dirty 16ths.nki	

Steam Synth	Christian's Sounds	Alien Wub Wubs.nki
Angry Buzz.nki
BeeYoaw.nki
Bone Bass Pulse.nki
Boo-Daddler.nki
Bottom 8ve Angry Inlaw.nki
Bouncing Crocodillo.nki
Bouncing Vowelation 2.nki
Bouncing Vowelation.nki
Bouncing Waves Of Panic.nki
Bouncing Yeah Bear.nki
Destruction Wub Wubs.nki
Go Lo For SuperSub.nki
Gravy - Great As Short Notes Triplet Sustains.nki
GZero G0 Funk.nki
GZero G0 Triplet Funk.nki
Hades.nki
Hit GZERO for G0.nki
HockAish - Play Deep.nki
Moaning Sawtooth.nki
Play Deep.nki
Play Joined Up Start Lo for Nasty Hi for Nice.nki
PlayHard.nki
Popcorn.nki
School Vowel Band 2.nki
School Vowel Band.nki
Short For Vowel Joined Up For Bass.nki
Simple Fuzz Pulser.nki
Speaker Thump.nki
Start Lo & Play Joined Up.nki
Stepwise Filling Loosener Phased.nki
Stepwise Filling Loosener.nki
Stepwise Funkotronic Vowel Generator.nki
Sub Wobbler.nki
SUBlime - Good For Busy Walking Basses.nki
SUBlime.nki
Subtronic Mosquito Step Vowels.nki
Super Sub Pulse and Short Stuff.nki
Sustainotron.nki
Tempo Sync Wurler.nki
Tempo Tantrum.nki
Tempo Wab Wabs.nki
Tempo Warble.nki
Tempomental.nki
Tempoture Is Rising & Falling.nki
Tempyoyo.nki
Triplet Squelcher.nki
Vel vs Vowel Sensitive Jaw Harp.nki
Yello Brick Tempo'd & Distressed.nki
Yello Brick Tempo'd.nki

Gabriel's Sounds	Ambient Bass.nki
Beam Me Up Scapula.nki
Conducive Reality.nki
Dance Filler.nki
End The Belt.nki
Funky Mother.nki
Groove Bass.nki
Hard End Push.nki
Ion.nki
Journey.nki
Konducive Dreams.nki
Likeya.nki
Mini Synth.nki
Nonsensical.nki
Open Corridor Guitar.nki
Percussive Hits.nki
Quandary of Molluscs
Rough Seas.nki
Sheet Organ.nki
Submerged Singers.nki
Talk To Me.nki
Under Strain.nki
Velvet Grime.nki
Wobble Fingers.nki
X-Ray Focus.nki
Yet To Rest.nki
Ze End.nki

Raw Orchestral Synth	Bent Strings.nki
Bone Bass Dirt 1.nki
Bone Bass Dirt 2.nki
Bone Bass Dirt 3.nki
Bone Bass DIrt Pulse 1.nki
Bone Bass Dirt Pulse 2.nki
Bone Bass.nki
Brass Bass.nki
Brass Filth.nki
Dirt String Bass 1.nki
Dirt String Bass 2.nki
Dirt String Bass 3.nki
Fart Bass 1.nki
Fart Bass 2.nki
Gritty Strings 1.nki
Gritty Strings 2.nki
Gritty Strings 3.nki
Scratch Bass 1.nki
Scratch Bass 2.nki
Scratch Bass 3.nki
Tape Grit 1.nki
Tape Grit 2.nki
Tape Grit Damped 1.nki
Tape Grit Damped 2.nki
Warped Winds 1.nki
Warped Winds 2.nki
Warped Winds 3.nki
Warped Winds Dirt.nki

Cue Starters	Anessence Pulse.nki
Bass Glitch Pulse 2.nki
Bass Glitch Pulse 3.nki
Bass Glitch Pulse 4.nki
Bass Glitch Pulse.nki
Big and Nasty - Split MW.nki
Bitey Vowel Pests 2.nki
Bitey Vowel Pests Also Good High.nki
Bitsy Bees 2.nki
Bitsy Bees.nki
Compressed Siblings.nki
Computer of the Raj MW.nki
Deaf Ears MW.nki
Entering The Stables MW.nki
Finalisation Seq.nki
Good Pulse Provided You Play In C.nki
Grape Pulse.nki
Grifter Pulse.nki
Head Spin MW.nki
Helicopter Ultimatum.nki
Horsemen Of The Apocalypse MW.nki
Mind Funk MW.nki
Sub With Dirt.nki
They're Coming - Split MW.nki


----------



## Synesthesia (Jan 4, 2013)

and the FX are:

BRASS FX 1



Hi cruncher MW - F3

Slide Trill 1 MW - F#3
Slide Trill 2 MW - G3

Psychotic sweller - G#3
Psychotic sweller alt - A3
Psychotic sweller FLUTTER- A#3

Slippy Slider - B3
Slippy Slider ALT - C4
Slippy Slider FAST - C#4

Gliss UP - D4
Gliss DOWN - D#4

Chatter Low MW - E4
Chatter Hi MW - F4

SemiRip Low - F#4
SemiRip Med - G4
SemiRip Hi - G#4

Slow menacing Gliss down - A4
Slow menacing Gliss up - A#4

Wholetone Stepper Low - B4
Wholetone Stepper Low - C5

Loud Semitone Discords - C#5-B6



BRASS FX 2

Loud Open 5ths - B2-A#3

Singing tones 1 (5th above) - D4-C#5
Singing tones 2 (4th above) - D5-C#6
Singing tones 3 (Gliss above) - D6-C#7


BRASS FX 3

Air blows - C3-F#3

Double Tongue Unisons - G3-F#6


BRASS FX 4

Cresc/Dim semitone Slide down - B3-A#4
Cresc/Dim semitone Slide up - B4-A#5

Cresc/Dim Min 3rd Slide up - C#5-A6
Cresc/Dim Min 3rd Slide down - C#6-A7

Wild Rip gliss - B6

Hi Quiet semi Trem - C7



WW FX 1


Cluster trill LOW - C3
Cluster trill Oct up - C#3

Brain Attack - D3

Shrieking Mutants - D#3

Multiphoniscare MW - E3

Creeping Dread - F3

Creeping Dread High - F#3

Crazy Chickens - G3

Crazy Dinosaurs - G#3

Long Slow Riser - A3

Attack of the Heavy Tongues - A#3

Panic In The Streets - B3

Panic Higher - C4

Duck Horror - C#4

Dizzy Slurrer - D4-G#4

Chatterific - A5

Low slow chatter swell - A#5

High slow chatter swell - B5




WW FX 2

Octave sweep - G2-F#5 (Major centred at C3, Minor at C4, Dim at C5)

Quick run up - A#5-G6

Pulsing - A6-G#7


WW FX 3

Growler - E3-D#4

5th Elemental - A4-G#6

WW FX 4

Flutter - G#3-G4

Play/Sing - G#4-G5

Slap Tongue staccato - A5-B6


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## Caedwallon (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm not quoting that. LOL!


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## Ed (Jan 4, 2013)

Don't let it get to you Paul. It's like someone buying VSL and then acting surprised that's its dry, or Symphobia and asking why it doesn't have separate violins violas cellos and basses


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## Diffusor (Jan 4, 2013)

blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> Do you have Holliwood Brass or Cinebrass?
> Have you work with Sampling modeling?
> I'm used to work with them and after I listen to this, I just want to uninstall this library from my computer.
> I think this library is like fast food made only with the propose to take your money.
> ...



If Hollywood Brass and Cinebrass is all that why did you feel compelled to buy a different library. The philosophy of the Albion series is totally different besides, and it's not meant to have the detail or scope of the bigger libraries.


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## blooming (Jan 4, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> Hi Blooming.
> 
> Iceni is a low end library. It has ensemble performances. I think you would benefit from actually reading the manual as you would understand how to use the patches - as has been explained - the percussion is 8 ensembles compiled into one keyswitch patch.
> 
> ...



I think that in the ways you say it, it sounds fair enough.
I don't think this is a problem of the fisical room or the professional musicians, which I respect as I know the wonderful level of British musicians.

I'm missing a replay to my comments about the dynamic and layers, which as I see this is only a problem for me, so don't worry.

I have try some products like synphobia and I think it is really great, I didn't see any problem of missing layers and they sound fantastic.
So I would have to assume that I shouldn't have bought this library in first place, it is my fault then, for not watching the video and reading the manual.

Sorry I was trusting in the amazing reputation you have.

Regards


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## blooming (Jan 4, 2013)

Diffusor @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have Holliwood Brass or Cinebrass?
> ...



I was imagining that this will be like synphobia which I think it is great,
I have try it but I don't own it, so I wanted to buy this one instead.
Just to general info, the title of this product really took my attention and trusting in the reputation of spitfire I didn't put so much attention to the videos.
Big mistake!


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## ysnyvz (Jan 4, 2013)

blooming @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> I have try some products like synphobia and I think it is really great, I didn't see any problem of missing layers and they sound fantastic.



obviously you don't know what you are talking about.
because most of symphobia patches have only 1 or 2 dynamic layers
in fact it's rare having more than 3-4 dynamic layers for every articulations in orchestral libraries
the reason is simple: they are expensive and hard to make


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## blooming (Jan 4, 2013)

ysnyvz @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> blooming @ Fri Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > I have try some products like synphobia and I think it is really great, I didn't see any problem of missing layers and they sound fantastic.
> ...



Maybe you are right but my ears tell me something different!


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## Markus S (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm afraid Ned has a point : French people do like Mc Donalds quite a bit (more than they would admit).


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## The White Knight (Jan 4, 2013)

Blooming, you've gone too far this time, it's too late now :


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## germancomponist (Jan 4, 2013)

blooming @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> Sorry I was trusting in the amazing reputation you have.
> 
> Regards



I think it is time to stop offend other people here, Mr. blooming!


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 4, 2013)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> blooming @ Fri Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry I was trusting in the amazing reputation you have.
> ...



+1

Francisco - you tried, but you seem incapable of not being offensive. Shame. I'd bow out now.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2013)

I think the best thing members can do at this point is simply let this thread die from non-participation.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 4, 2013)

Tip from an old guy: perhaps it's we who should bow out. Cut off the source and leave our friend alone with his bile.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 4, 2013)

2 old farts think alike!


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## Markus S (Jan 4, 2013)

Seriously, this happened to me once as well. I thought I liked the sound of a library, but when playing with the library I hated it, even though it had great reputation (didn't go public with it though). I was able to simply send it back to the dealer. It's in European law that you have the right to give a product back if you change your mind and it even works for software.

The time limit is 7 days, I believe, so it's too late now. But it's good to know and may be useful for the next time.

Just not sure how Spitfire distributes, if it online only, maybe things are a little different, it's worth checking out.


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## hector (Jan 4, 2013)

Markus S @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> It's in European law that you have the right to give a product back if you change your mind and it even works for software.


There are exceptions to this - perishable, personalized and digital goods aren't covered under this law within Europe (sample libraries bought online are at least one of those). It would have to be a physical product mailed to you such as a sample library in a box - in this case too as soon as you break the seal your right is waived.


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## rpaillot (Jan 4, 2013)

blooming @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> Do you have Holliwood Brass or Cinebrass?
> Have you work with Sampling modeling?
> I'm used to work with them and after I listen to this, I just want to uninstall this library from my computer.
> I think this library is like fast food made only with the propose to take your money.
> ...



I do like McDonald!


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## 667 (Jan 4, 2013)

Actually Ed might be on to something re: the Albion 2/3 interface-- any chance the OP just didn't know to click on the different "load articulation" buttons?


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## stargazer (Jan 4, 2013)

Talking about customer support and goodwill - just received the 1.1 update :D


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## stargazer (Jan 4, 2013)

Now I'm gonna put a McRib box on the sustain pedal of my grand, my monitors under the lid, play some Nasty Longs and record it back. =o
Release that HZ lib already, and keep up the good work!


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## mverta (Jan 4, 2013)

blooming @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> So considering the price I thought this will be the CINEMATIC LOW-END APOCALYPSE lybrary that I wanted.



Yes, truly the workhorse of any great composer. I feel your pain.


_Mike


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## CHendricks (Jan 4, 2013)

When I first bought Albion 1, I felt bummed out, disappointed. But a year later and since then, I have used Albion in almost every track of mine. I recently bought Iceni, when I really shouldn't have, for financial reasons, and first initial impression, had same feelings when I first bought Albion 1. And no doubt, this will become one of my go to libraries soon the deeper I dive into it. Plus, it's already gonna be used in my next film score! You should be happy with your purchase as Spitfire creates some pretty amazing libraries! And most importantly, you can have Hollywood Brass, CineBrass, etc etc, but they don't have that Spitfire sound, so having any of the Albion libraries adds more color to your template. I love to layer Albion with other libraries to get a more full sound: point being - I have felt that let down when buying both, but looking back, I use them all the time, and the sound is a sound you cannot get with other libraries!

Best,
Cyle


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## dcoscina (Jan 4, 2013)

Spitfire guys just sent out an update to Albion 3 already today. Call me old fashioned but I've never seen better customer support with speedy fixes, free updates and continual discounts for future purchases every time you buy one of their products upon its initial release....


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## dgburns (Jan 4, 2013)

mverta @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> blooming @ Fri Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > So considering the price I thought this will be the CINEMATIC LOW-END APOCALYPSE lybrary that I wanted.
> ...



my,I think someone's been flamed and doesn't know it!

I,for one,can't resist and will now HAVE to buy this lib. o=<


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 4, 2013)

mverta @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> blooming @ Fri Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > So considering the price I thought this will be the CINEMATIC LOW-END APOCALYPSE lybrary that I wanted.
> ...



:lol: :lol: You are so bad! :twisted:


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## mverta (Jan 4, 2013)

...just ribbing the guy a little bit. It's all good. 



_Mike


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## MichaelL (Jan 4, 2013)

mverta @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> ...just ribbing the guy a little bit. It's all good.
> 
> 
> 
> _Mike



just ribbing OR "McRibbing?"


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 4, 2013)

/\~O


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## valexnerfarious (Jan 4, 2013)

i never did care to much for the onions and pickles on my Mcrib...l always got mine plain...one thing i really cant stand is when they are really stingy and they dont put enough barbeque sauce on mine..kinda ruins the entire sandwich


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## midi_controller (Jan 4, 2013)

Hey blooming, sorry you didn't like Albion 3 right away, but I'm glad you calmed down a bit. One thing I would suggest before you decide it's useless, use it to LAYER your template, not replace it. Personally, that is pretty much what I always do with products like these since, like you, I use the Hollywood series as the backbone of my template. Try it out, mess around with different combos and see what you can come up with. Combine your Hollywood Brass, Symphobia Brass (I suggest the strings + brass patches for this) and your new Albion brass and I'm sure you will have a monster unlike anything you've ever heard before!

Now if you will excuse me, I'm off to get a big mac. :D


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## valexnerfarious (Jan 4, 2013)

pffffff.......big mac


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## midi_controller (Jan 4, 2013)

valexnerfarious @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> pffffff.......big mac



How dare you! If you had constructive criticism about WHY you didn't like the big mac, or what could be done to improve it this would be different, but your lack of respect for the big mac and all the work that went into creating it is unacceptable! Rabble rabble rabble! :twisted:


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## valexnerfarious (Jan 4, 2013)

for one sir..its too damn big lol...and second..it just doesnt have that explosive taste that the mcrib posseses


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## guydoingmusic (Jan 4, 2013)

Just for fun... http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3672138


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## musophrenic (Jan 4, 2013)

The McRib only has 1 dynamic layer as opposed to the 2 layers of the Big Mac, which you can either crossfade between (using the middle piece of bread - the bread-wheel) or stack together - it has much more 'bite'.

Sorry I have nothing useful to add to the Iceni discussion, as I don't have it yet. I have been as thoroughly informed as I have been entertained by this thread, but from using Albion 1 & 2 I can definitely assure you that the last thing it is is useless. Do they have a more specific sound, recording philosophy, and intent? Yes they do, and that's by no means a bad thing - it's wonderful. 

Maybe it's two dynamic layers - but so what? Some of the most amazing things in the VI world can come from having no more than one or two excellently recorded and programmed layers. I get blooming's point of layers that sound like a p with the volume raised or mf with the volume down, but those are quirks that occur in so many sample libraries - it's an inherent thing with the sampling concept, which takes a hell of a lot of work to get exactly right, especially with phasing issues and what not.

Not to derail the topic, but I do want to bring something up that I think some of us forget ... we sometimes raise issues with sample libraries that we buy, and expect updates and fixes as soon as super-humanly possible - that's completely our right as customers in the business paradigm, and no-one can deny that. Many of us, however, can get passionately upset and angry at developers, wanting the library issues fixed now, now, now. We forget that many of the developer teams are not only small, they are also comprised primarily of working composers ... that means these guys need some time to, you know, WRITE MUSIC! Kudos to them for being able to pursue both ventures, especially that many of the sensibilities of each venture can feed into the other, making the results of both that much better. However, they're both also very time consuming and equally important activities in their lives and their businesses, and I think we can bear to be a little more understanding of that.


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## Per Lichtman (Jan 4, 2013)

I think once @blooming got into the specific details, there was some good discussion there.

It sounds like adding patches that combined that "nasty" patch in as a top layer would be very useful. I haven't used it, so I can't be sure, but I'm curious.

And Spitfire Audio's list showed that the not only are there a lot of patches in the loops section, but that the orchestral FX section seems very well stocked indeed. That's something I think is really important for people to know.

I remember back when I bought Garritan Orchestral Strings Advanced and P.S. Advanced Orchestra almost a decade ago that the FX patches were a big deal for me. If you compare them to some of the other very popular libraries since then, they did more in that area. EWQLSO does more than Hollywood Strings in the area of exotic FX, etc. and the amount of FX available rarely scales with either price or reptuation.

So though I don't have Albion III, aspects like that really make we want to review it.

It sounds like some of Albion III's strengths are:

1) The unusual ensemble, performers, space and recording quality.

2) The orchestral FX.

3) A smaller number of articulations for general use designed to be very useful and easy to navigate (as opposed to overwhelming or comprehensive).

4) Spitfire Audio's relationship with the musician's and the sustainability of their work.

The patch list should be very helpful to helping people see at first glance whether they want to look further at the library. After that, if they listen to the demos and watch the videos, it should be fairly easy to tell whether the dynamic layers and room are your cup of tea or not. If they are and you get a lot out of combined ensembles as opposed to more separated instrumentation, then it seems like a very useful product. Personally, they sound quite interesting to me - but Albion II Loegria sounds even more so - and the tone and room of the Spitfire Audio commercial range is simply one of the most pleasing to me I've heard in modern sample libraries. It's a personal thing.

While I cannot speak as to how @blooming's last comment about Spitfire Audio's strong reputation was intended, I think there is at least one very useful way of looking at it.

If you buy a library thinking that "people say this library is good" or "people say this company is good" without really clarifying exactly what you want or need first, it's very easy to end up disappointed.

The clearer you are on what you want or need, the easier it is to find out the answers and Spitfire Audio has been very good about responding to questions on this forum, as have many members. I would have been so stoked to have these kind of educational resources available to me years ago when I was essentially banging my head against a wall in 2002 trying to figure out if Garritan Orchestral Strings Advanced or Sonic Implants Symphonic Strings Collection was a better match for me. There were a limited number of (usually very wet) demos that were rarely in the genre I wanted. And since I'd never owned a deeply sampled string library before that, it was difficult to even know what to ask.

@blooming It sounds like you actually really know the utility/sound you want in a library, so my advice is to focus more on that than the reputation of the libraries you look at. After all, (to use an absurd example) the world's most amazing distant-miked orchestral harp library would be of only limited use if you were trying to write Celtic harp for Irish rock. Specific questions about functionality/usage are almost always more useful than "is it good" on its own. 

Anyway, I doubt there's much more I can add to this discussion (and I'm writing insanely long posts anyway) but I was glad to see the ideas get a bit clearer. I'm very curious about Spitfire Audio's products and I think it's good that it became explicit that the difficulties were not based on deficiencies in the library, but in differences in conception about what the library was.

*Takes off fake glasses and goes back to grading fake papers*


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## dpasdernick (Jan 4, 2013)

I've wrestled with posting this or not but feel like I owe it to myself to communicate my experience with Spitfire. Last year I was really wresting with buying either Albion 1 or Orchestra Essentials. I really wanted Symphobia but didn't have the dough. I opted for Albion and instantly regretted it. There were tuning issues with the brass that made it unusable to me and the short brass and string articulations felt, to me, that they had a real softness in the attack.

I immediatley emailed Spitfire to ask if I could return it and was told no. We shared a great couple of emails talking about tuning, samples, etc.They suggested that I should spend more time with it. I honored their suggestion and spent more time with the library. Ironically I like the Steam band pads and the long strings but still regretted not buying Orchestra Essentials instead. I asked in another email if I could resell the library and transfer the license and was told no. 

Again the correspondence between us was very pleasant and cordial. I was told that they would make it up to me on a future "bolt-on"and they would "pay for it out of their own pocket". A while later they came out with Albion II and I emailed to ask if this was the "bolt on" They said no. A while later a new version of Albion 1 came out, for free, that added some new instruments (cymbals and other stuff, can't remember it all) So a year goes by and I email and say "Am I missing something regarding the "bolt on" you promised to pay for out of your own pocket? I was told that the free update was originally planned as a paid for update but that they decided to release to us all for free.

So my personal experience with Spitfire has been, well interesting. They're great guys and I believe they make great instruments. I was just left with a funky taste in my mouth regarding the "we'll make it up to you out of our own pocket" when that upgrade was free for all. I suppose I should look at it as they did make it up to me with the update. 

It's hard for me to type this out as I don't want to sound like I was cheated but I am also a customer that parted with his hard earned money for a product that to this day I do not use. I need to be more careful in the future about buying libraries where they do not allow you to resell. 

You can take all of this with, as they say, a grain of salt. I'm not a pro by any stretch.

With all due respect,

Darren


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## kitekrazy (Jan 4, 2013)

The only thing I do when I buy a "bad" library is use it. I paid for it so I find a way to use it.


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## Per Lichtman (Jan 4, 2013)

*Gets my fake glasses back out* 

@dpasdernick I think we've all had experiences (whether as developers or customers) where the upgrade path didn't end up going exactly as we originally envisioned, but it sounds like Spitfire Audio was good about staying in touch nonetheless, and I'm really glad to hear that. It builds confidence for me in their customer service.

There are several companies on this site that I have a very positive view of and that I'm happy to buy from in the future that also had these sorts of challenges in regards to updates/upgrades. In one case, since I waited beyond a certain point to upgrade from an old version to a new version, the promised upgrade path was eliminated because I didn't take advantage of it "quickly enough" and in another the upgrade model changed completely between the time I bought the product and when they released the next version. Note that in both cases there was specific and unambiguous wording used in the original marketing about the updates/upgrades when I purchased - the policy just changed later on, and I can understand that. There was another that touted ongoing updates, but I bought right after what turned out to be the last update for it before the product was left behind.  

I'm not going to name, names because 1) these are older products so I doubt people are in the same position 2) I got a huge amount of use out of the products I bought and 3) I'm a big fan of the work the companies are doing now and did back then as well.

So for me, it changed the way I approached things and now I don't tend to buy products with the assumption that upgrades/updates will be provided - I buy them based on what they are right then. If other things materialize, it's a bonus but if they don't, then I don't dock points. It's made it easier for me.

Just to be clear, I understand that you didn't buy the product with an eye towards updates either, Darren, it just felt like part of a larger discussion.

*Takes glass off again, tentatively*


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## Arbee (Jan 4, 2013)

Darren, I don't think sharing this is unreasonable. This is after all an open forum and watching this thread unfold has been...well... interesting. One of the biggest risks I think any of us can suffer in a community like this is being swept along by a huge wave of positive support for a product/developer (and the opposite btw). We can easily drop our guard, comfortably buoyed by popular opinion, without realising that something can be a great product without it being great for our particular needs or tastes. If only for that reason, to create balance, I believe these threads that may seem inflammatory and cause riotous indignation and even scorn, have a very worthwhile purpose in the grand scheme of things. I sincerely believe Spitfire make great products and display great customer service and passion for what they do, but that doesn't make them right for everyone.

.


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## Per Lichtman (Jan 4, 2013)

Arbee @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> One of the biggest risks I think any of us can suffer in a community like this is being swept along by a huge wave of positive support for a product/developer (and the opposite btw). We can easily drop our guard, comfortably buoyed by popular opinion, without realising that something can be a great product without it being great for our particular needs or tastes. If only for that reason, to create balance, I believe these threads that may seem inflammatory and cause riotous indignation and even scorn, have a very worthwhile purpose in the grand scheme of things. I sincerely believe Spitfire make great products and display great customer service and passion for what they do, but that doesn't make them right for everyone.



Very well said. My only hope is that it becomes easier and easier for people to point out what they don't like or doesn't work for them in as easy a tone as possible, so that more people register the information.

There shouldn't be anything wrong with saying "it seems like a great product but it isn't suited to what I'm doing" or "I'm interested in it, but I really need a product that is/does an extra thing or a different thing".


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## radec (Jan 4, 2013)

> If you buy a library thinking that "people say this library is good" or "people say this company is good" without really clarifying exactly what you want or need first, it's very easy to end up disappointed. After all, (to use an absurd example) the world's most amazing distant-miked orchestral harp library would be of only limited use if you were trying to write Celtic harp for Irish rock. Specific questions about functionality/usage are almost always more useful than "is it good" on its own


amen to this. if alb3 is not what ya need then its not what ya need. this doesnt tell of the products quality tho just personal needs and experiences. this is why i think ppl should not be afraid to voice this kind of opinion but it should be done respectful and considerately rather than calling things disappointments, useless, unprofessional, macdonalds and so on



dpasdernick @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> A while later they came out with Albion II and I emailed to ask if this was the "bolt on" They said no. A while later a new version of Albion 1 came out, for free, that added some new instruments (cymbals and other stuff, can't remember it all)


if ya felt ya owed it to yourself to contribute your experience with sf in regards to the OPs exp. then it should be an accurate account. im on the greener grass side and totally satisfied with everything spitfire i have. feels ive gotten a LOT of mileage for my money in support and free updates (and from sounds of it theres more to come for alb1/2) so i felt i should chime in to correct/balance ya statements. 

not only did alb1 get a couple early updates which fixed probs in the initial release suc as tuning/phase/etc, but the free content update came out months *before* albion 2 and gave ya new brass and cymbals and hits as well as adding a lot of functionality to what ya get with the ui. i just felt like ya totally mis-communicated this and its an important distinction to me as there are some devs i stopped buying from that ticked me off releasing product after product for months or years before (if the planets were aligned) fixing problems in the ones they put out there. heck i bought sf perc years ago and its still being updated so i rly appreciate these updates so wanted to make sure ya chronology was correct..




Arbee said:


> I believe these threads that may seem inflammatory and cause riotous indignation and even scorn, have a very worthwhile purpose in the grand scheme of things.





Per Lichtman said:


> There shouldn't be anything wrong with saying "it seems like a great product but it isn't suited to what I'm doing" or "I'm interested in it, but I really need a product that is/does an extra thing or a different thing".


i agree with ya guys and im glad theres no censorship (of bad or good) and that we can express honest opinion here. i do think ppl need to be more careful than blooming tho. he did eventually post some context to his problem and i find i do agree on some but a lot of what he says is unmistakably offensive and him blowing off steam. if ya take that attitude its helping no-one.


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## dpasdernick (Jan 4, 2013)

Radec,

I just went back and looked at the chronology in the emails I have with Spitfire. Albion II was announced before Albion 1 V3 came out. I can't tell for certain if Albion II was actually shipped before Albion 1 V3 but since Albion 2 was announced first this is why I thought it was the "bolt-on". I am certainly not trying to skew the chronology in order to defend my position. At the time I believed that the Albion II announcement was the "bolt-on" that Spitfire was referring to. To address your comment _"if ya felt ya owed it to yourself to contribute your experience with sf in regards to the OPs exp. then it should be an accurate account."_ my contribution was very much an accurate account.


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## radec (Jan 4, 2013)

dpasdernick @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> my contribution was very much an accurate account.


ya said:



dpasdernick said:


> A while later they came out with Albion II and I emailed to ask if this was the "bolt on" They said no. A while later a new version of Albion 1 came out, for free


lookin at threads here, alb1 v3 content update was announced may 10th, released jun 16th. alb2 was announced may 18th released aug 30th. alb1 v3 was both announced first and rlsed first.

so to say 'then they came out with albion ii, then they came out with a new version of albion 1' is not very much accurate. its ya recollection and is incorrect... not saying its intentional but to me i find these details important if ya want to come across unbiased and neutral.


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## Caedwallon (Jan 4, 2013)

dpasdernick @ 5th January said:


> Radec,
> 
> I just went back and looked at the chronology in the emails I have with Spitfire. Albion II was announced before Albion 1 V3 came out. I can't tell for certain if Albion II was actually shipped before Albion 1 V3 but since Albion 2 was announced first this is why I thought it was the "bolt-on". I am certainly not trying to skew the chronology in order to defend my position. At the time I believed that the Albion II announcement was the "bolt-on" that Spitfire was referring to. To address your comment _"if ya felt ya owed it to yourself to contribute your experience with sf in regards to the OPs exp. then it should be an accurate account."_ my contribution was very much an accurate account.



Even if you'd received Albion 2 from Spitfire, it wouldn't have replaced Albion 1.


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## blooming (Jan 4, 2013)

midi_controller @ Sat Jan 05 said:


> Hey blooming, sorry you didn't like Albion 3 right away, but I'm glad you calmed down a bit. One thing I would suggest before you decide it's useless, use it to LAYER your template, not replace it. Personally, that is pretty much what I always do with products like these since, like you, I use the Hollywood series as the backbone of my template. Try it out, mess around with different combos and see what you can come up with. Combine your Hollywood Brass, Symphobia Brass (I suggest the strings + brass patches for this) and your new Albion brass and I'm sure you will have a monster unlike anything you've ever heard before!
> 
> Now if you will excuse me, I'm off to get a big mac. :D



LOL!!! THANKS FOR YOUR POSSITIVE FEDBACK!
I will try out


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## Riffs (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi there.

To some extent I have to agree with Blooming in that I was also slightly disappointed with Albion 3. 

If I may expand...

I had heard from a composer colleague (whose information sources are usually reliable) that the new release would feature 'The Composatron' - a proprietary automated composition module. From what I was led to understand, The Composatron would have the capability of composing a unique piece of music (based on preselected parameters such as genre/mood/tempo) by simply pressing a key on the keyboard. 

I was excited by the possibilities of this; as a composer of high-end royalty-free music I had hoped that The Composatron would help fill in those areas such as Trailer music, Dubstep, Jazz etc. - areas not previously covered in my oeuvre.

This self-composing automated compositional process has surely been the holy grail for software developers and I felt it was only a matter of time before someone nailed it. For years, the role of the composer of media music has meant that more onus has been placed on the actual compositional process. This, for me at least, has somewhat curtailed any meaningful volumic output - the kind of output one needs to make any reasonable financial reward in this field. 

Thus, I had hoped The Composatron would become my 'virtual assistant' and take on the actual composing role whilst allowing me more time to do other, equally important music-related activities. Metatagging, submitting music online, backing up files, installing software, reading manuals, purchasing equipment etc.

Given all of the above then, imagine my huge disappointment to discover, upon booting up A3 for the first time, that there appears to be - unless I am mistaken - NO COMPOSATRON. OK, there are lots of _sounds_ but are we not at a stage where we can expect a little more? (especially when one considers the cost). Is it too much of a stretch to implement a composing tool? Is it too much of a stretch to make the compositional process easier for your customers? I don't think so.

Perhaps I was given the wrong information or perhaps this is something that will appear in A4. Either way my disappointment is palpable and I will be demanding a refund forthwith unless The Composatron appears in an imminent update.


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## Caedwallon (Jan 5, 2013)

Maybe I've been living under a rock, but I've never come across any piece of information related to this "Composatron" that you speak of.

Or, more likely, that was an excellent troll.



Riffs @ 5th January said:


> Hi there.
> 
> To some extent I have to agree with Blooming in that I was also slightly disappointed with Albion 3.
> 
> ...


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## stargazer (Jan 5, 2013)

Riffs @ Sat Jan 05 said:


> Thus, I had hoped The Composatron would become my 'virtual assistant' and take on the actual composing role whilst allowing me more time to do other, equally important music-related activities. Metatagging, submitting music online, backing up files, installing software, reading manuals, purchasing equipment etc.


 :lol: lol


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 5, 2013)

Careful Darren and Arbee, you're in grave danger of turning this thread into something useful.

Spitfire are, for me, one of the very few developers at the top of the tree - I think fingers-of-one-hand stuff. They produce interesting products that are recorded with top people, they actively support their products, I like their communication, and they're British dammit. Anything they do I'll watch closely.

And yet for me, I've come within a hair's width of pulling the trigger on all three Albion libraries and not done so. In each case, I've felt in the end it overlapped other products I have too much. I always apply the same tests for stuff - "what does it give me that I can't already do?" or "does is significantly speed up my workflow?". I'm not so big on buying for subtle refinement or small tonal variety in my palette. Maybe I made the wrong decision three times, but in each case I couldn't answer positively at the price point.

With Albion 1, it felt too similar to Symphobia and the legato's range seemed a little too restrictive. With Albion 2, I was initially so excited because it seemed to focus on the small, but in the end its focus I think was subtly different - its focus seemed to be on the soft. A large part of the library was the strings, and I'm so in love with LASS LS that it seemed too similar. Albion 3 - I have (again) Symphobia for big and deep, plus CB Pro, and Hybrid Tools 2 / Omni for a lot of the other elements if I need big and low... but in truth it's not really the kind of stuff I do much. It seems a library very focused on a particular style and tone that is specialised and very now.... but not quite so interesting to me (similar tentative thoughts about 8VP, based on nothing more than scraps of info).

It's very hard evaluating this stuff though - in each case, the library would give me something I really did want, but not quite at the prices offered even at the early discount (£254+VAT = approx $500) given the other stuff I already have. Personally, Spitfire's pricing policies don't work too well for me. Over the years I back off from time-limited deals - too often I used to buy stuff because I perceived it as a bargain, without really evaluating how much I needed it. Also, it does take a while for a library to settle down, the problem here of wildly OTT positive or negative early reactions is very real. I get that Spitfire want to reward early custom, it's just not a paradigm I'm comfortable with. I prefer either the simplicity of the Spectrasonics "no deals ever" (where there is no pressure at all to buy so no artificial stress and you have the confidence that it will always retain its value), or the more traditional sales after the initial period approach. If Spitfire suddenly offered any of the Albions at half price, I'd almost certainly buy the lot - it triggers that cost-benefit for me, in my case. But note -* this isn't by any means saying they are priced too high generally* - they seem very fair for what you get, and I'm acutely aware of how high production costs must be. They are only priced too high for my own particular circumstances (oh, and I physically bought a studio last year, so I don't have wads of spare cash lying around).

And yet of course I look forward to Albion 4, or indeed HZ Percussion, and I'll go through all the same torture. I've got a stack of all kinds of percussion already, I've mentally lined up the entire CinePerc range as it all sounds better and broader than what I have (but guess what... too much overlap in my current raster to spring for it immediately). I bet it will be a killer lib, but I need to soberly compare with what I have first.

PS - Derek (Riff) - either that's terrific satire, or you're about to unleash all manner of hell on this thread that make the previous pages look like polite cocktail chatter. (it's the former, right? RIGHT?!!)


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## blooming (Jan 5, 2013)

Per Lichtman @ Sat Jan 05 said:


> So though I don't have Albion III, aspects like that really make we want to review it.
> 
> It sounds like some of Albion III's strengths are:
> 
> ...



Thanks for your comments, 
I would like to clarify that my thoughts about Spit fire reputation is genuine, 
I have listen to the demos of the woodwinds collections and brass collections( this ones that are non commercial to anyone) and I think they sound amazing! so I truly think this company has an great potential. 
But in the same time I feel put it in to the said as I feel that I would never have access to this libraries. 

My problem is with this particular product as I was thinking that it will give me this "something else that I am looking for" This is why I used in first plays the word "Disappointment" 

Every time I post a comment I have seen the behavior of putting the attention to the words that could be "offensive" or "provocative" taking the attention away from the technical issues proposed. 

I think that anything in a written context is easy to interpreted in the wrong way, (if you want to do it), as the difference when you talk is that we can listen to the tone of the voice and also interpreted the corporal Expression. 
Of course this is also due to my lack of communication skills 
And to the commercial interest of some others... 

I have to add to this that I'm a very secure person, I don't have any doubts about my capacities as a musician. So I don't need to replay to personal attacks. 

For me the only God is God, and I'm fan of John Williams, and Bach. 


Sorry for the text above but I needed to clarify that. 

regarding to your comments: 
I think that this is definitely an unusual ensemble, it sounds so different so maybe I will use it to add layers as it was suggested by @midi_controller. 

About the orchestral FX, here I would like to say that I was expecting something different, more functional, I found some FX patches made without this thing that make you want to start composing your next song to start using them. 
As I already said, I think the performers are great and the physical room as well, but 
I think that I disagree with the production direction.

I think we are finally arriving somewhere :D


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## Per Lichtman (Jan 5, 2013)

@blooming Thanks for making the effort in the follow-up posts to clarify your thoughts - I feel like I learned a bit more along the way.


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## JohannesR (Jan 5, 2013)

Riffs @ Sat Jan 05 said:


> Hi there.
> 
> To some extent I have to agree with Blooming in that I was also slightly disappointed with Albion 3.
> 
> ...



ROFL! :lol:


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## The White Knight (Jan 5, 2013)

Riffs @ Sat Jan 05 said:


> I had heard from a composer colleague (whose information sources are usually reliable) that the new release would feature 'The Composatron' - a proprietary automated composition module. From what I was led to understand, The Composatron would have the capability of composing a unique piece of music (based on preselected parameters such as genre/mood/tempo) by simply pressing a key on the keyboard.



oh ! you misunderstood your colleague, the composatron already exist ! but it's a concept and not a module, it's created with human beings !

you know..., when a composer got an army of clones who works for him...that's the composatron ! 

the saddest thing is that many composers here only dream to become on day a part of it...so they buy Albion 3 with nice orchestral patches - 125 horns and 350 strings at unison - to train themself at home with two fingers and of course a big mac in the other hand


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## blooming (Jan 5, 2013)

The End!


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## mojamusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Riffs @ Sat Jan 05 said:


> Thus, I had hoped The Composatron would become my 'virtual assistant' and take on the actual composing role whilst allowing me more time to do other, equally important music-related activities. Metatagging, submitting music online, backing up files, installing software, reading manuals, purchasing equipment etc.
> 
> Perhaps I was given the wrong information or perhaps this is something that will appear in A4. Either way my disappointment is palpable and I will be demanding a refund forthwith unless The Composatron appears in an imminent update.



This made my day! o-[][]-o 

LONG LIVE COMPOSATRON!!!


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## dpasdernick (Jan 5, 2013)

radec @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> dpasdernick @ Fri Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > my contribution was very much an accurate account.
> ...



Radec,

My personal correspondence with Spitfire is not in sync with Albion's press release on VI-Control. Again, I need to reiterate that there is no intention for me to try and twist anything here to make Spitfire look like bad guys. They're not. They are talented, professional guys. When they said to me "I will pay for this out of my own pocket" I could only assume that this meant I would be getting something extra than a free update. Wouldn't you assume the same thing? I had no idea at the time that Albion II was not the bolt-on, they mentioned, as I don't typically think of an upgrade as a bolt-on. (if only these guys spoke English ) The implication was that they were going to be overly generous to a poor sap who wasn't happy with their product. I thought this was amazing support. The only true thing that matters here is I'm unhappy parting with my $500+ dollars, can't even resell it at a loss, and will probably shy away from Spitfire's libraries in the future. My loss? Maybe. But I do have choices. I'm sorry I can't come across as unbiased and neutral but I think I am being fair.

When we all buy a product most of us research it as best we can and then take the plunge. Sometimes the product exceeds our expectations and sometimes it's disappointing. Sometimes one of us loves a product while someone else wishes they hadn't bought it. Different strokes for different folks...


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## radec (Jan 5, 2013)

dpasdernick @ Sat Jan 05 said:


> Sometimes one of us loves a product while someone else wishes they hadn't bought it. Different strokes for different folks...


sure, i get ya.. plenty things i bought that people here love and i dont. my issue is not with that but how ya presented inaccurate details. alb1 update was announced and released before alb2, there is no denying that ya can look at posts here, spitfire site blogs, official emails (and in fact vi-c announcement was an exclusive announcement). if ya still insist on presenting it otherwise i have zero trust in ya version of events at all and the post ya 'wrestled' deciding whether to post has no credibility to me.




dpasdernick @ Sat Jan 05 said:


> When they said to me "I will pay for this out of my own pocket" I could only assume that this meant I would be getting something extra than a free update. Wouldn't you assume the same thing


can honestly say i would not assume that from what ya said. from the way ya say they phrased it id expect a free update with new content which is exactly what ya got. also reading the alb2 announcement thread it clear as day says 


Synesthesia said:


> ... delighted to announce Albion II - Loegria. Designed as a stand-alone tool, everything you would need to write beautiful and esoteric film scores out-of-the-box...


 so again expectin this to be a freebie bolt-on because ya didnt like the tuning/attacks (which were fixed quick) of a small part of a library ya bought is wishful thinking...

sry if it seems im being argumentative or picky but as i said to ya, one of my pet peeves is certain devs ive spent far more than $500+ on releasing glitched or unfinished libs and making ppl wait months and years to fix it while releasing product after product in the meantime... one reason im so satisfied with spitfire libs is they do the complete opposite to this and felt i had to correct ya statements.


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## Synesthesia (Jan 5, 2013)

Hi Dpasdernick,

Just to clarify: 

Albion 1 v3 update was released on 16th June 2012.

This was originally going to be a paid update/upgrade/bolt-on etc -- we were guessing around 50 USD. It had about 5GB new content, including the new Brass, percussion, etc.

This is why Christian in his email to you dated 21st December 2011, mentioned that we were recording _"... another "hi brass" as our definitive cinematic choice, this will be made available in the first Albion bolt-on...." _ and _ "... If you hang in there Darren (again, very confident you'll grow to love it) I'll chuck you a free copy of the Albion bolt-on when it arrives (I'll pay from this from my own pocket) to keep you happy..."_

In the nearly 6 months that then elapsed while we were working on the update, we decided to make it free for all our users. 

I can understand you being upset maybe that you didn't get something free that others were having to pay for, but actually, you did get the extra Brass free as promised.

Loegria was released on 30th Aug 2012.

Hope that clears up any confusion?

Paul


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## blooming (Jan 5, 2013)

Caedwallon @ Sat Jan 05 said:


> Maybe I've been living under a rock, but I've never come across any piece of information related to this "Composatron" that you speak of.
> 
> Or, more likely, that was an excellent troll.
> 
> ...



Hey Look what I did using COMPOSATRON!
and albion 3 thanks a lot guys!!!

https://soundcloud.com/blooming-tv/with ... omposatron


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## Winslow (Jan 6, 2013)

Hi blooming,

I have to confess that in the beginning I thought your are some kind of rude noob bashing a sample library, but this composition is really great. I like it a lot!!!

Cheers,
Winslow


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## Caedwallon (Jan 6, 2013)

blooming @ 6th January said:


> Hey Look what I did using COMPOSATRON!
> and albion 3 thanks a lot guys!!!
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/blooming-tv/with ... omposatron



That's a nice piece of music, I'm not hearing Albion 3 in there, though.


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## blooming (Jan 6, 2013)

Thanks guys! :D 
It is just that I wanted to confirm that my technical complains are founded.
And also to response to the ironic post of the *composatron* which is address to say that I don't know how to use my fingers and ears and that I'm asking to much.


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## reid (Jan 6, 2013)

blooming @ 6th January said:


> Thanks guys! :D
> It is just that I wanted to confirm that my technical complains are founded



So which of your technical complaints about Albion 3 are demonstrated by this piece?


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## midi_controller (Jan 6, 2013)

blooming @ Sat Jan 05 said:


> Hey Look what I did using COMPOSATRON!
> and albion 3 thanks a lot guys!!!
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/blooming-tv/with ... omposatron



Needs more BRAAAAM!!! :D


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## blooming (Jan 6, 2013)

reid @ Sun Jan 06 said:


> blooming @ 6th January said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks guys! :D
> ...



The fact that I am not a guy without ears and playing with 2 fingers as it was suggested and that I expect a lot from a library regarding to sound quality and expressiveness.

I didn't use the library here as it doesn't work for me.


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## The White Knight (Jan 6, 2013)

blooming @ Sat Jan 05 said:


> Hey Look what I did using COMPOSATRON!
> and albion 3 thanks a lot guys!!!
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/blooming-tv/with ... omposatron



Pure epicness 

it was just like seeing the last Transformers in theater with two subwoofers in the ass

wow, just wow


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## dgburns (Jan 6, 2013)

geewiz....look's' like I'll be wanting a refund on my recent Composatron purchase.... /\~O


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jan 6, 2013)

blooming @ Sun Jan 06 said:


> Thanks guys! :D
> It is just that I wanted to confirm that my technical complains are founded.
> And also to response to the ironic post of the *composatron* which is address to say that I don't know how to use my fingers and ears and that I'm asking to much.



I fail to see your point.
The fact that you can write a mellow orchestral piece doesn't make Albion 3 a bad library.
This looks to me like an attempt to get validation for your musical skills.
Most people had problems with your social skills, not your musical abilities.
There are already 6 pages in this thread, filled with composers praising the library.
You don't like Albion 3, fine.
It seems that you don't write the type of music where Albion 3 could shine.
Time to move on.


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## Alex Cuervo (Jan 6, 2013)

The ability to compose pretty music doesn't exclude you from being a high-maintenance pain in the ass.


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## mojamusic (Jan 6, 2013)

Blooming,

The takeaway for you here, should be: "research the product first." I'm not sure how you were convinced that Albion 3 would suit your style, but Spitfire was EXTREMELY clear in their marketing of it, that it was meant for "wicked low end" or something like that...

After hearing your piece written with COMPOSATRON, it seems that Albion 1 & 2 would suit you so much better. 

Spitfire makes some great libraries and seem to be very open to users suggestions. Keep things positive and your suggestions just may inspire an update that will improve the overall experience for all of us.

BTW your writing is nice.

Myron


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## blooming (Jan 6, 2013)

mojamusic @ Sun Jan 06 said:


> Blooming,
> 
> The takeaway for you here, should be: "research the product first." I'm not sure how you were convinced that Albion 3 would suit your style, but Spitfire was EXTREMELY clear in their marketing of it, that it was meant for "wicked low end" or something like that...
> 
> ...



LOL :D


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## blooming (Jan 6, 2013)

Alex Cuervo @ Sun Jan 06 said:


> The ability to compose pretty music doesn't exclude you from being a high-maintenance pain in the ass.


#
JA JA JA


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 6, 2013)

Bloomin' Big Ego - stop feeding, people.


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## Lex (Jan 6, 2013)




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## Guy Rowland (Jan 6, 2013)

Hmm now, what thread do these last two posts remind me of?

Still, the difference here is that although Blooming's ego might be stroked, his rudeness or his case isn't being encouraged or tolerated. IMO that's good news for VI-C.

Being as there are several other Albion 3 threads going around at the moment, perhaps this is a good time to tidy up and close this one?


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## ryans (Jan 6, 2013)

blooming @ Sat Jan 05 said:


> Hey Look what I did using COMPOSATRON!
> and albion 3 thanks a lot guys!!!
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/blooming-tv/with ... omposatron



Nice piece. I am hearing some of William's Born on the Forth of July theme in there...

Ryan


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## G.R. Baumann (Jan 6, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Jan 06 said:


> Bloomin' Big Ego - stop feeding, people.



ditto :!:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 6, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ 6/1/2013 said:


> Hmm now, what thread do these last two posts remind me of?
> 
> Still, the difference here is that although Blooming's ego might be stroked, his rudeness or his case isn't being encouraged or tolerated. IMO that's good news for VI-C.
> 
> Being as there are several other Albion 3 threads going around at the moment, perhaps this is a good time to tidy up and close this one?



Very good advice! Done.


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