# VSL Synchron Percussion 1, any thought?



## dhlkid (Apr 25, 2017)

But, not cheap…


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## MA-Simon (Apr 25, 2017)

Nr.1 Rule of Fightclub: Always link!


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## dhlkid (Apr 25, 2017)

Sorry

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Percussion_Complete/Synchron_Percussion_I


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## MA-Simon (Apr 25, 2017)

Thanks! Looks deeply sampled, but the Instrument listing seems a bit to limited to compete with other libraries. The sound is very 3D though.


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## dhlkid (Apr 25, 2017)

I only interest the Mallets


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## The Darris (Apr 25, 2017)

MA-Simon said:


> Thanks! Looks deeply sampled, but the Instrument listing seems a bit to limited to compete with other libraries. The sound is very 3D though.


I disagree, the range of articulations go well beyond what other libraries typically do. This gives it a lot more depth. Yes, it's missing instruments but for a basic palette, this is certainly the most complete list of articulations for those instruments all in one library. I thought Berlin Percussion would be my go to for a long time but this library is certainly attractive. Price point seems fair compared to other libraries out there and the fact that you get pretty much every articulation you could want with each instrument.


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## devonmyles (Apr 25, 2017)

One thing I love about VSL - You can also buy a particular Instrument or one section at a time.
Terrific set of articulations.


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## Lotias (Apr 25, 2017)

My thoughts are that I want to know what's next.


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## Jack Weaver (Apr 25, 2017)

Their new release tail technology would bode well for the melodic instruments yet to come. I hope that they do strings only later they get it all together. 

.


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## Lotias (Apr 25, 2017)

Jack Weaver said:


> Their new release tail technology would bode well for the melodic instruments yet to come. I hope that they do strings only later they get it all together.
> 
> .


Specifically I'm looking out for new chamber strings options, or at least an update to the legato on the chamber strings they already have. Synchron Chamber Strings would be very welcome.


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## Symfoniq (Apr 25, 2017)

No upgrade pricing for current VSL Percussion owners?


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## novaburst (Apr 25, 2017)

devonmyles said:


> One thing I love about VSL - You can also buy a particular Instrument or one section at a time.
> Terrific set of articulations.



This is a good, as you may only want the timpani, or base drum and may have no use for every thing.

But as I said before this is a new era and I feel VSL is taking the leading roll in setting standard at an unreachable level.


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## Symfoniq (Apr 25, 2017)

omiroad said:


> Nice thinking... I wonder if they'd go the dimension strings route now though.



I hope not. While the recording methods on Dimension Strings were novel, I found the result unsatisfying, and ultimately sold the library. I hope they record new chamber strings using multiple mic positions as they have done with the new percussion.


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## Lotias (Apr 25, 2017)

omiroad said:


> Nice thinking... I wonder if they'd go the dimension strings route now though.


I also don't hope for this - I find RAM and CPU requirements on Dimension Strings to be already too restricting, and I imagine that a Synchron Chamber Strings would be far larger than their current offering.


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## Saxer (Apr 25, 2017)

It sounds very natural. Not over impressive or especially big or roomy. Just as this instruments sound. Can easily show 8dio who's the boss in deep sampling. Looks like a suitable level of sampling traditional instruments the best way possible. Probably an investment in the price range of a fully equipped brand new midrange car to get a syncron stage sample orchestra running (including SSDs and slaves). I can't imagine this percussion library will be the selling hit but from developers side it makes sense to start with that section. I'll probably jump in when strings, woods or brass will be avaliable.


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## camelot (Apr 25, 2017)

Usually I do not say something like this but I am kind of excited to see them bringing out a new range of instruments. I really like the quality of their products. They really feel professional, like a professional tool should be.

One let down for me is the enormous footprint of the instruments. 72.4 GB for the smaller standard version of the mallets is immense. They sampled 36 velocity layers for every key of the celesta! Is it even possible to distinguish 36 levels of timbre on each key? They really put a lot of effort into it. I hope the quality does not suffer due to the huge sample count. How long does it take to check and cut every sample?


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## Jack Weaver (Apr 25, 2017)

Synchron room sounds amazingly clean and detailed - no room honk.

Even the close mics from the toms sound very good. Lots of different mics. Not sure how you would mix them within one instance of Vienna Instruments. 

So much detail and accuracy. Can't wait to smash the crap out of them a host of different compressors. 

.


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## JPQ (Apr 25, 2017)

Now makes me think how is cpu hit. and when other instruments come. But is way too big my library taste but luckily i feel i can happy even very old/older libraries.


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## muk (Apr 25, 2017)

Looks good, sounds very good. Recording in Auro 3D was a smart move to futureproof the library. Didn't see that coming. I really like that you have separate control over the trees stereo mics and center mic. Close mic, mid mic, and tree (stereo and center mics) is a good selection for the basic library.

Not surprisingly the Synchron line seems to be a resource hungry series, both financially and computationally. Looking forward to hearing the strings and brass libraries. It will be a tough decision between them and the upcoming Sonokinetic orchestral series.


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## jamwerks (Apr 25, 2017)

So much detail, makes all my other percussion libraries seem suddenly out-dated. Nothing negative to say. Sooo much detail & control over that detail. No brainer buy imo.

No information about a new VIP? I'm hoping to be able to load up two mic positions (close & tree) and control the level of the close on a fader.


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## Lotias (Apr 25, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> So much detail, makes all my other percussion libraries seem suddenly out-dated. Nothing negative to say. Sooo much detail & control over that detail. No brainer buy imo.
> 
> No information about a new VIP? I'm hoping to be able to load up two mic positions (close & tree) and control the level of the close on a fader.


Doesn't it already technically have a mixer?


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## jamwerks (Apr 25, 2017)

Lotias said:


> Doesn't it already technically have a mixer?


Yeah that would make sense. Wonder if we would then have to manually load two samples for each articulation? And have to manually match the pan of the close mic's to the mains? Hopefully there's some pre-configured presets!


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## Silence-is-Golden (Apr 25, 2017)

maybe already suggested in earlier threads, but it seems like VSL makes a complete package for (film et al) composers: offer top tier samples now with their synchron stage. And for those who then need it/ afford it (from their contracter) can then record it all live with an orchestra. Then the vi mock up version will potentially give a good overal impression of the final live recorded orchestral version. 
Offers same good USP's to competitors.


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## erica-grace (Apr 25, 2017)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> maybe already suggested in earlier threads, but it seems like VSL makes a complete package for (film et al) composers: offer top tier samples now with their synchron stage. And for those who then need it/ afford it (from their contracter) can then record it all live with an orchestra. Then the vi mock up version will potentially give a good overal impression of the final live recorded orchestral version.
> Offers same good USP's to competitors.



Interesting take. Tho what's a "USP"?

Problem with that scenario, however, is what if the composer does a really good job witht he mock up, and the final recording doesn't sound all that different to the director and producer? Then they might be like, "what are we paying for???"


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## kitekrazy (Apr 25, 2017)

Overkill for me.


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## OliverLee (Apr 25, 2017)

Great libraries, but I have no plan to pay more into VSL because of high price and elicenser policy.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Apr 25, 2017)

erica-grace said:


> USP


unique selling point


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## FriFlo (Apr 25, 2017)

I like it very much, but it's a little late ... with all those near complete libraries out there and the prospect of the full Synchron orchestra being available when? Maybe 2025? 
That is Science Fiction to me in those quickly moving times! 
I hope they will do well with this, though, so that I can spoil myself with a great treat at my retirement!


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## muziksculp (Apr 25, 2017)

So, When will we have a fully functional Synchron based VSL Orchestra ? In 1 Yr , 2 Yrs, 3 Yrs, 4 Yrs, ... ?


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## Arbee (Apr 25, 2017)

Sounds very natural, impressive and very forward thinking. I wonder how "frequency build up" works in this 3D environment, I've always wondered if that was the processing challenge that led to the sonic characteristics of Dimension Strings.

I noted there has been a change in how they differentiate "standard" from "full" versions, with "full" being the 3D set. "Full" previously meant extra articulations. So for me, the price of "standard" i.e. a complete library in stereo, is actually quite competitive.

I would LOVE for VSL to take a LASS type approach to its Sychron strings (and perhaps other sections). I suspect Dimension Strings may have been one step too far, and that "first chair plus 2 or 3 divisi sections" might be the ideal approach to build up section sizes to suit.


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## holywilly (Apr 25, 2017)

Totally love the sound, and 16 velocity layers for each articulation, that's insane!


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Apr 25, 2017)

Arbee said:


> Sounds very natural, impressive and very forward thinking. I wonder how "frequency build up" works in this 3D environment, I've always wondered if that was the processing challenge that led to the sonic characteristics of Dimension Strings.
> 
> I noted there has been a change in how they differentiate "standard" from "full" versions, with "full" being the 3D set. "Full" previously meant extra articulations. So for me, the price of "standard" i.e. a complete library in stereo, is actually quite competitive.
> 
> I would LOVE for VSL to take a LASS type approach to its Sychron strings (and perhaps other sections). I suspect Dimension Strings may have been one step too far, and that "first chair plus 2 or 3 divisi sections" might be the ideal approach to build up section sizes to suit.


 Yep. I think LASS had it right from the start with the divisi sections


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## colony nofi (Apr 25, 2017)

The sound of the demos is absolutely fantastic. I'm stunned really. To me, this sits well above the other percussion offerings I use day to day. (CinePerc, Spitfire, and a bunch of other bits and pieces). While I'd love to justify the full 3d auro lib out of the box, I really can't justify it until I get a gig that needs it. That - and I fear my mac pro might not be up to the task....??? 
So for now, I'll be saving for the standard lib. I know I'll be able to make a lot of use out of it. 

Wow - listening to more demos. The lines to "performance" have been well and truly blurred. With attention to detail while programming - and "performance" when programming, I'm sure that these instruments will find their way onto many many scores.

Kudos VSL. Kudos.


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## NoamL (Apr 25, 2017)

This feels like a library for 5 years from now. 200+ GB just for basic orch perc!! Twice that to load all the mics! Will it be 1-1.5 terabytes of RAM to load the full orchestra?

The stage sounds fantastic though.


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## jamwerks (Apr 26, 2017)

Yeah all those velocity layers and especially the release technology really makes this 2 steps above my SF Redux & Cineperc. This is going to be a huge seller imo (me included).

Factor in that this is really only half of the Percussion section. I'd bet they will be putting out stuff pretty quickly now, with something major every two months or so. We'll see if part two of the Percussion is next or maybe brass.

Will probably hold off on other buying and see what VSL does. Love that they seem to want to push the bar higher. A major test will be how they tackle everything-legato. That seems to be in constant evolution, getting better all the time.

The Snycron stage does seem to sound good. Was perplexed when I saw that it was kind of shallow, and very wide. That makes the Surround mic's quite close. But if percussion sounds good in there, I'd bet that everything else will too.

Will be nice to be using VIP more again, awesome sampler!


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## FriFlo (Apr 26, 2017)

I just checked the standard vs the full library and realised, the standard library includes all articulations, just misses the surround and 3D mic positions. Hmm ... this is not to bad really, price wise. Actually, it is pretty inexpensive considering the amount and (presumed) quality! I would only very rarely need the surround mics. This could very well persuade me to step on board earlier, but not with only percussion released. I will wait at least until Strings
and Brass are released.


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## FriFlo (Apr 26, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> So, When will we have a fully functional Synchron based VSL Orchestra ? In 1 Yr , 2 Yrs, 3 Yrs, 4 Yrs, ... ?


Based on their previous speed on releasing new stuff, I would guess we will not see all sections released any earlier then in 4 years. Even then, I cannot imagine there will be all details available, like mutes, different sizes of strings, etc. Don't get me wrong! I think it is great they take their time, cause the VSL stuff is really of a different caliber in terms of quality control. But the only way they could keep up with their standards and become quicker at the same time would be to drastically increase their staff ...


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## wcreed51 (Apr 26, 2017)

There's new info from Paul on the VSL website...


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## TintoL (Apr 26, 2017)

anthraxsnax said:


> Why am i not insanely impressed? I've heard some pretty bleh demos on the vsl site before, but I'm not sure what I'm missing that would make me want to buy this over say - cineperc
> 
> Especially since I prefer kontakt
> 
> Edit, I want to be clear - legitimate question here... every one seems to be really excited, so I can't help but feel like I'm missing something


I second anthraxsnax. I feel like I am missing something. I am not sure what's the big deal with the velocity samples. I am almost sure you will not notice that. (Just like the 8000 vs 2000 pressure levels on a digital tablet. No human will notice more that 2000 points of pressure) The sound is nothing that wouldn't be equal o reven surpass by any of the libraries out there.


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## muziksculp (Apr 26, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> Based on their previous speed on releasing new stuff, I would guess we will not see all sections released any earlier then in 4 years. Even then, I cannot imagine there will be all details available, like mutes, different sizes of strings, etc. Don't get me wrong! I think it is great they take their time, cause the VSL stuff is really of a different caliber in terms of quality control. But the only way they could keep up with their standards and become quicker at the same time would be to drastically increase their staff ...



Here is what Paul of VSL posted on their forum that is related to this :

Quote: 
_- Synchron Percussion I is the first product of the brand-new Synchron Series, more to come. Recording and editing is time-consuming, but we are FAST!_

I wonder what we are _FAST!_ means, maybe they found a way to speed up production time ?


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## airflamesred (Apr 26, 2017)

Well it's the new standard in Bass, snare and tamborines if nothing else.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Apr 26, 2017)

Well jeez. The sound itself is tremendous, but it's how all the mic positions and everything else ties into VI PRO that makes Kontakt-based stuff look like toys ...


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## Lee Blaske (Apr 26, 2017)

anthraxsnax said:


> Why am i not insanely impressed? I've heard some pretty bleh demos on the vsl site before, but I'm not sure what I'm missing that would make me want to buy this over say - cineperc



Just got finished listening to the demos myself. I guess I was expecting to be insanely impressed, too, and I'm not sure if I was. It's a very good sounding library. I think the detail in the instruments at softer dynamics is especially nice, and perhaps something that I don't have in the libraries I already own. When I listen to the demos, though I think I'm missing some crispness and definition in the metallic instruments (bells, cymbals, triangles), but there again, maybe a smoother option on those things would be nice in certain contexts. Maybe some of the libraries I have are unnaturally hyped, and I've grown used to that.

Overall, I think I'd characterize the sound as being somewhat smooth and gentle. Then again, maybe there are other mic positions that bring out more power that I haven't heard yet. It sounds a bit tame (which, again, might be perfect in a lot of contexts). To me, though, it doesn't have that Hollywood film score sound (and again, that might be a good thing, because the really raucous Hollywood movie sound has been well covered). It doesn't strike me as a library you'd turn to for making movie trailers.

I think I'm also at a point where I've come to realize that certain, specific instruments just sound better than others. It does look they had an extensive collection of excellent instruments to make this library. But, as I listen to the demos, I wonder if a number of instruments I already have in other libraries have a bit more magic. There are just a lot of things that come together once in awhile to make a sample truly great (instrument, player, mallets, room, engineer, editor). On any specific day, I'm not sure if anyone (no matter how skilled or motivated they are) can step up to the plate and make an instrument sample that sounds better than anything else ever done. Truth is, we're now at a point where a LOT of talented people have assembled at various times to take a crack at this, and a lot of them have gotten excellent results.

But, we might not all have those magic sounds we really like at 16 different velocity levels, so that's a plus for this new library.

And of course, since this is the first product in their new series, it might be nice to own all the libraries produced in the same space for blending purposes.

I just wished that upon my first listening, I would have had more of a "Holy cow, I can't BELIEVE it!" reaction.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Apr 26, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> Just got finished listening to the demos myself. I guess I was expecting to be insanely impressed, too, and I'm not sure if I was. It's a very good sounding library. I think the detail in the instruments at softer dynamics is especially nice, and perhaps something that I don't have in the libraries I already own. When I listen to the demos, though I think I'm missing some crispness and definition in the metallic instruments (bells, cymbals, triangles), but there again, maybe a smoother option on those things would be nice in certain contexts. Maybe some of the libraries I have are unnaturally hyped, and I've grown used to that.
> 
> Overall, I think I'd characterize the sound as being somewhat smooth and gentle. Then again, maybe there are other mic positions that bring out more power that I haven't heard yet. It sounds a bit tame (which, again, might be perfect in a lot of contexts). To me, though, it doesn't have that Hollywood film score sound (and again, that might be a good thing, because the really raucous Hollywood movie sound has been well covered). It doesn't strike me as a library you'd turn to for making movie trailers.
> 
> ...



I think this is a matter of perspective. I, for one, am happy to see that while VSL obviously is striving to push the envelope sonically and technologically, they're still staying true to their fundamental ideal of trying to get as close as possible to the real deal, in the hightest detail and the most pristine quality. Their philosophy was never to offer "that sound", whatever that may be, but to create a virtual instrument that sounds like the real one, in the most "naked" sense of the word. It's a cerebral approach, not a visceral one. Which is something I always felt drawn to, because therein lies the key to sounding different, unique and variable. A more "flavored" library may offer more instantaneous satisfaction, but these neutral, super-clear, super-real sounds bear a promise, one that personally gets me excited.

It's an approach that's fundamentally different from, let's say Spitfire, who are always about offering some kind of specific flavor ("recorded in the same place where scores X, Y and Z were recorded", "with the signature sound of that guy XY", etc.) . So I don't know if this is a matter of instruments having "magic" - especially if you actually look at what specific instruments VSL actually sampled for this particular library. So, what "wows" me here is not the fact that it's magic and that it sounds like a movie, but that it's serious business when it comes to realism, technology and sound quality.

I obviously do enjoy my libraries that offer a specific kind of flavor, like my SF strings, Hollywood Brass or CSS, but I'm really looking forward to what VSL will bring to the table with their upcoming other instrument families, because this seems to be the next level of what they were always about: the most technically sound, sonically pristine, playable and malleable approximations of natural instruments possible, powered by the most advanced and flexible software there is on the market.


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## erica-grace (Apr 26, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> I just wished that upon my first listening, I would have had more of a "Holy cow, I can't BELIEVE it!" reaction.



We now have all heard libraries recorded at the best stages with the best engineers (EW, Cinesamples, Spitfire, etc). I don't think that there is any more "Holy cow, I can't BELIEVE it!" reaction to be had. For straight-up orchestral libraries, the sound of the samples in sample libraries is just not going to get better - it's already as good as it's ever going to be. Playability, features, legato, rrs, etc - those can always be improved on. But sound quality? That's already peaked.


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## muk (Apr 26, 2017)

erica-grace said:


> But sound quality? That's already peaked.



Sonically, with todays technology probably yes. VSL Synchron offers Auro 3D which is new. And every studio and recording philosophy has its own sound of course. Recording studios are pretty well covered now. But concert hall recordings are sparse in comparison. That's why I am looking forward to the upcoming Sonokinetic releases.


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## NoamL (Apr 26, 2017)

Did you guys see they recorded each timpani in its full range, so you can actually program real multi drum timpani passages now? Wow.

About the sound character - yes this is the sound of real orchestral percussion. It feels tame because we're all so used to the hyped up cinematic stuff. If the rest of the range is in line with this philosophy then this library may be more of a successor to EWQLSO than a direct competitor to Berlin Spitfire etc.


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## dcoscina (Apr 26, 2017)

I heard the demos and while I'm a huge fan of VSL and own a ton of their products, the price to sound quality doesn't make me want to part with $1000 (CAD) for this when I have SF Percussion, PS Percussion, Hollywood Perc, CinePerc etc etc. I will be curious to hear their brass and woodwind libraries that utilize this new space however.

OT- I actually upgraded my VSL Choir to the Extended library just yesterday since it was so cheap (I had the original Standard library) and it was a no brainer. Nice stuff!


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## Lee Blaske (Apr 26, 2017)

erica-grace said:


> But sound quality? That's already peaked.



I'm not sure if it's a matter of "peaking," rather than things just being different. You can do the best job you know how to do with what you have available, and it'll be different from other libraries. But you might not like it better. Certain triangles have a singing sound that other triangles don't have. For me, celestas sound VERY different. Same goes with tubular bells. And, players coax very different sounds out of instruments. That's another thing I'm hearing in the new VSL library. In the demos, I believe the personality of the player is showing through, and I'm not sure I know what to think of it. Might not be what I'm looking for. Might be exactly what someone else is looking for, though.

I remember with the earlier VSL percussion libraries, there were things I really liked and still use today. I really liked the celesta and xylophone. I still turn to those often. I never liked the cymbals (the instruments, the playing and the recording). I didn't care for the tonality of the tubular bells. The timpani were okay in some situations, but there were certain resonances on some notes that to me, strongly suggested other notes. 

I've got a lot of percussion libraries right now, and I do find that I gravitate toward specific instruments in specific collections because for me, they're clearly superior. 

It would be really nice if a new library came out, and everything in that library better than what I'm now using (and everything would fit together sonically as part of the same set). But, having gotten my hopes up about that numerous times, I no longer expect that to happen.


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## ModalRealist (Apr 26, 2017)

The sound is perfect. The tails are short and not "bloomy", and the instruments have "distance" but don't sound like you're listening from the corridor (which I often feel is happening with ambient samples if the MIDI isn't programmed to carefully make use of the tails). The demos sound like orchestral recordings to me, in a way that is new.

I'm already kitted out for the moment, but a few years down the line, I look forward to buying "Synchron Standard Complete Bundle"!


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## Lee Blaske (Apr 26, 2017)

BTW, just looking at the picture of the instruments assembled for this collection, I also wonder if they actually chose the best available instruments. I've played a lot of celestas in orchestral situations, and for me, the modern Yamaha instruments are the holy grail. They didn't choose that one. Also, there are much better marimbas available, with greatly extended range. Why wouldn't they have at least rented the best instruments for this project?


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## TintoL (Apr 26, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> I heard the demos and while I'm a huge fan of VSL and own a ton of their products, the price to sound quality doesn't make me want to part with $1000 (CAD) for this when I have SF Percussion, PS Percussion, Hollywood Perc, CinePerc etc etc. I will be curious to hear their brass and woodwind libraries that utilize this new space however.
> 
> OT- I actually upgraded my VSL Choir to the Extended library just yesterday since it was so cheap (I had the original Standard library) and it was a no brainer. Nice stuff!


Exactly my thoughts... Specially in CAD...Just the timpani is $470 cad. Another thing, (I might be wrong), I don't see the rolls controlled by the mod wheel... I find that for my working process this is so much more efficient than doing your own rolls or using the stretch feature for the pre-recorded rolls.


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## artinro (Apr 26, 2017)

It's very easy to make any controller do whatever you wish in VI pro. If you wanted to have CC1 control rolls, it's a piece of cake to do so.


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## TintoL (Apr 26, 2017)

artinro said:


> It's very easy to make any controller do whatever you wish in VI pro. If you wanted to have CC1 control rolls, it's a piece of cake to do so.


Hi artinro, thanks so much for your answer. I didn't know that. So you are saying that you can make cc1 drive the prerecorded rolls? How do you program that in VI pro? Thanks in advance.


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## artinro (Apr 26, 2017)

TintoL said:


> Hi artinro, thanks so much for your answer. I didn't know that. So you are saying that you can make cc1 drive the prerecorded rolls? How do you program that in VI pro? Thanks in advance.



Well, prerecorded rolls presumably wouldn't need a controller since the dynamics are "built in." I don't own this particular product yet, but it appears pre-recorded rolls are triggered with a range of keys for length, and then velocity for p->mp or mp->mf (for example) within that length. For the regular XF rolls, however, you could just decide that instead of using CC1 to cycle through cells, you would use it to control the crossfade. If you right click on the XF controller, you can have it "learn" CC1 instead the default CC2 for VSL. Then you could change cell cycling to any other controller.

Does that help?

EDIT: Just to clarify what I said above, the "pre-recorded" rolls are more than just rolls, they're also dynamic rolls, meaning cresc. and dim. within the roll are also recorded. Those are separate patches from the regular recorded roll, which would respond either to velocity, or to any controller you wish...including cc1.


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## Dietz (Apr 26, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> [...] Why wouldn't they have at least rented the best instruments for this project?



Mostly because "they" have collected and bought (and liked) all those instruments they sample. Part of the idea is that you can mock up an arrangement now and have the identical instrument available for an actual recording session, without the typical "Oh, this sounds very different now!"-moment.


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## Lee Blaske (Apr 26, 2017)

BTW, in a different picture that I didn't see initially, I see they do have an extended range marimba in addition to the typically sized instrument.


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## Lotias (Apr 26, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> BTW, in a different picture that I didn't see initially, I see they do have an extended range marimba in addition to the typically sized instrument.


Neither marimba is in this collection, though.


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## muziksculp (Apr 26, 2017)

I think we can expect to see many of the missing perc. instruments in Synchron Percussion I to be in Sychron Percussion II, and maybe even a SPIII .

It would also be nice if the Orchestral Tools Berlin Perc. & Timpani would be easily mixable with the Synchron based VSL Orchestral Collections.


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## Lee Blaske (Apr 26, 2017)

Dietz said:


> Part of the idea is that you can mock up an arrangement now and have the identical instrument available for an actual recording session, without the typical "Oh, this sounds very different now!"-moment.



Interesting. I hadn't even thought of that. You're in a unique position there (I suppose EW also owns a famous studio, but I don't think their percussion library was recorded at the studio they now own). Have you actually experienced this with clients? It seems to me that some of those high-end clients that would have the budgets to do mock-ups and then actually record with a real orchestra might specifically *not* want to have the same sound that others have gotten, preferring to have something unique. But, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's nice to have all that stuff available.


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## Lee Blaske (Apr 26, 2017)

Lotias said:


> Neither marimba is in this collection, though.



Oh oh... I didn't even notice that. I need to go back and study things more closely.


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## Lee Blaske (Apr 26, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> It would also be nice if the Orchestral Tools Berlin Perc. & Timpani would be easily mixable with the Synchron based VSL Orchestral Collections.



So hard to know before you actually get them and try. I've got all the Berlin stuff, and there are some really nice instruments in there (I especially like the timpani and the orchestra bells). I'm not as sold on the marimba and vibraphone, though. I think they're useful in a contextual way, but I don't think I'd use them if those instruments were really featured (I'm still too much in love with the SonicCouture marimba and vibraphone - even though it would be nice if THOSE libraries had some different mallet options).

Anyway, I'm leaning toward buying the Synchron Perc. I library. I'm just preemptively getting my griping out of the way, so I won't have to do it at a later date.  I've just been down this road with too many percussion libraries now. Whenever I buy a new, major percussion library with the latest technology, I'm always thinking "This will completely replace and be better than everything I currently have!" And it's just never worked out that way.

The other thing I worry about is the CPU overhead. I'm still using the two 12-core Macs I bought in 2010. I skipped 2013, because the paint-can was only supposed to be about 13% faster than what I had, so I thought I'd wait for the next revision. But now, that won't happen until 2018, and maybe as late as 2019. And, at this point, I don't want to replace my 7 year old computers with 4+ year old computers.


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## colony nofi (Apr 26, 2017)

Feel for you Lee in regards to new macs. EOY 2017 should see some interesting pro-imacs coming out as well. (I have the trash can - but desperately want more power.....)

Regarding the sound - maybe its just me - but I've never heard such expression before - and the studio sound is utterly perfect for me. Its no "hyped" style for sure... but with the right mixing and post-pro I'm sure it could be.


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## muziksculp (Apr 26, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> So hard to know before you actually get them and try. I've got all the Berlin stuff, and there are some really nice instruments in there (I especially like the timpani and the orchestra bells). I'm not as sold on the marimba and vibraphone, though. I think they're useful in a contextual way, but I don't think I'd use them if those instruments were really featured (I'm still too much in love with the SonicCouture marimba and vibraphone - even though it would be nice if THOSE libraries had some different mallet options).
> 
> Anyway, I'm leaning toward buying the Synchron Perc. I library. I'm just preemptively getting my griping out of the way, so I won't have to do it at a later date.  I've just been down this road with too many percussion libraries now. Whenever I buy a new, major percussion library with the latest technology, I'm always thinking "This will completely replace and be better than everything I currently have!" And it's just never worked out that way.
> 
> The other thing I worry about is the CPU overhead. I'm still using the two 12-core Macs I bought in 2010. I skipped 2013, because the paint-can was only supposed to be about 13% faster than what I had, so I thought I'd wait for the next revision. But now, that won't happen until 2018, and maybe as late as 2019. And, at this point, I don't want to replace my 7 year old computers with 4+ year old computers.



About Macs .. Well, I'm glad I switched to PC four years ago. Best decision I made for the studio. 

I wouldn't mind adding the new Mac Pro Modular Design, whenever they become available and like you mentioned, it looks like we are talking late 2018, or early 2019, which is quite a bit of a wait if you need one now, or soon. on the other hand, You could consider adding a PC Slave to help you out. 

Going back to VSL Synchron Perc. I , I think I will be adding some of the Perc. I Instruments as I feel needed, rather than getting the whole collection at once. I have OT's Berlin Perc & Timpani Libraries, which I like a lot. However, I do plan to add VSL-Synchron based Strings, Woodwinds, and Brass whenever they are released.


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## The Darris (Apr 26, 2017)

anthraxsnax said:


> ... but I'm not sure what I'm missing that would make me want to buy this over say - cineperc



Well, compared to that and the rest of the percussion libraries I've used. VSL's new percussion, based on the video walkthroughs, shows insane improvement over controllable cross-fading dynamics. All of the libraries I have that try to do cross-fading dynamics for rolls have extreme phasing problems, especially in the cymbals. The demos are certainly not that great but watch the videos. You will quickly see the depth this library has.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Apr 26, 2017)

The room sounds great...very nude/transparent. That's what I was kinda hoping I'd get with the Berlin series but that has turned out more like Spitfire - very coloured. Wishing I held off a bit to see how the rest of the orchestra sounds.

I am surprised that some people cannot hear the quality. It sounds absolutely pristine but I'd expect nothing less from VSL.

Also there clearly are rolls controlled by xfade


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## Lotias (Apr 26, 2017)

The Darris said:


> Well, compared to that and the rest of the percussion libraries I've used. VSL's new percussion, based on the video walkthroughs, shows insane improvement over controllable cross-fading dynamics. All of the libraries I have that try to do cross-fading dynamics for rolls have extreme phasing problems, especially in the cymbals. The demos are certainly not that great but watch the videos. You will quickly see the depth this library has.


Although, like usual on VSL instruments, the transition between dynamics is extremely noticeable sometimes when you use velocity crossfading. The only time I thought it wasn't as noticable was on legato performance patches.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Apr 26, 2017)

I haven't read all four pages of this thread yet, but I'm quite interested. I have several other VSL libraries and they are all so well done. I believe their programming to be the best in the business, and they are very careful with the samples. The Synchron stage is one of the finest recording rooms in the world by any standard and has been lavished with the best equipment money can buy. I love that they recorded this for immersive audio, and while I'm not yet equipped for that in the monitoring department, I have every intention of going there over time. I was wondering when we'd see them start to release a new orchestral sampling project. Given how good the original orchestra still sounds, I anticipate these samples will also have a 10 year life. VSL gives excellent value, in my opinion.


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## The Darris (Apr 26, 2017)

Lotias said:


> Although, like usual on VSL instruments, the transition between dynamics is extremely noticeable sometimes when you use velocity crossfading. The only time I thought it wasn't as noticable was on legato performance patches.


I feel the opposite with this new library. I feel like they've done a great job compared to what is currently out there regarding percussion dynamic crossfading (especially in cymbals).


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## heisenberg (Apr 26, 2017)

The subtly of the dynamics especially in the resonance is freakishly accurate. Not over or understated. Very impressed. Let's see some demos of Varese material though. Sauce it up a bit.


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## Lee Blaske (Apr 26, 2017)

Have there been any announcements regarding how big the percussion library will be ultimately? Will we eventually be looking at several $1k+ products just to fully cover percussion? It does seem to me that the percussion products are usually the smallest size, and smallest price in most sample collections. This makes me wonder if the full Synchron orchestra might once again be in the same price range for the original VSL orchestra (i.e. possibly $20k+). It would be nice to know where this is headed.

Also, just comparing this to other libraries, there appears to be only a single snare drum. And, only two suspended cymbals (even though we're at 400+ Gb of data). OTOH, I guess this is somewhat on par with Spitfire's HZ01 library at 140Gb for a small collection of instruments (but with every conceivable mic position).


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## Lotias (Apr 26, 2017)

The Darris said:


> I feel the opposite with this new library. I feel like they've done a great job compared to what is currently out there regarding percussion dynamic crossfading (especially in cymbals).


It's better than before, but certain jumps between dynamics are very sudden - I also heard that on the glockenspiel's rolls.


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## Arbee (Apr 27, 2017)

I like the neutral/natural (i.e. flexible and very adaptable) sound, something I've always thought ProjectSAM did well. I also like the lack of hype, just bang, there it is guys, love it or hate it. Add to that the migration path to surround, Vi Pro, the step up in dynamic layers, the usual VSL quality and well, let's just say I'm glad I waited. Yep, I guess that makes me a fan - I have a lot of respect for how they go about things.


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## dhlkid (Apr 27, 2017)

So, anyone bought it?


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## TintoL (Apr 27, 2017)

artinro said:


> Well, prerecorded rolls presumably wouldn't need a controller since the dynamics are "built in." I don't own this particular product yet, but it appears pre-recorded rolls are triggered with a range of keys for length, and then velocity for p->mp or mp->mf (for example) within that length. For the regular XF rolls, however, you could just decide that instead of using CC1 to cycle through cells, you would use it to control the crossfade. If you right click on the XF controller, you can have it "learn" CC1 instead the default CC2 for VSL. Then you could change cell cycling to any other controller.
> 
> Does that help?
> 
> EDIT: Just to clarify what I said above, the "pre-recorded" rolls are more than just rolls, they're also dynamic rolls, meaning cresc. and dim. within the roll are also recorded. Those are separate patches from the regular recorded roll, which would respond either to velocity, or to any controller you wish...including cc1.


Thanks for your explanation artinro. What you said is correct. But, a normal crossfade between two simple articulations will behave like a switch. That was my fear.
Nevertheless, I didn't see the videos before. Now that I have seen them, specially the Timpani, I have to correct myself. THIS THING IS MIND BLOWING. My guess is that the demos ( my humble opinion) are not too explanatory. You have to see the videos. The amount of detailed control just dwarf any thing we have currently. And they did have to developed a new crosfade for rolls, and it's supper detailed. They finally got that working. Those independent recording in different lengths are not too useful.


Now, I want to know how runs and dynamics will behave with this new crossfade dynamic control.

They have done it again. They pushed the bar again and I think, this is a new chapter in samples. We finally have vsl's programming with vienna instruments pro capabilities IN A WET LIBRARY.

I just can't wait for the solo strings. They are going to kill everyone if they get the correct sound.

Congratulations to VSL. My wallet is going to die.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Apr 27, 2017)

TintoL said:


> My wallet is going to die.


Just between us, I am hoping between now and when the VSL Synchron Orchestra is released I will have become an accomplished composer so I can justify the $$$. Maybe I can sell some body parts


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## artinro (Apr 27, 2017)

TintoL said:


> Thanks for your explanation artinro. What you said is correct. But, a normal crossfade between two simple articulations will behave like a switch. That was my fear.
> Nevertheless, I didn't see the videos before. Now that I have seen them, specially the Timpani, I have to correct myself. THIS THING IS MIND BLOWING. My guess is that the demos ( my humble opinion) are not too explanatory. You have to see the videos. The amount of detailed control just dwarf any thing we have currently. And they did have to developed a new crosfade for rolls, and it's supper detailed. They finally got that working. Those independent recording in different lengths are not too useful.



My pleasure! I'd usually agree regarding the independent recordings of dynamic rolls in different lengths. I think their intelligent release sample tech where you can stop at any point you wish and get an accurate release changes this altogether, though. Love that.


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## TintoL (Apr 27, 2017)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Just between us, I am hoping between now and when the VSL Synchron Orchestra is released I will have become an accomplished composer so I can justify the $$$. Maybe I can sell some body parts


 Totally agree on this. Same goes with me. I honestly think that even thought this new percussion steps above the others, I don't think my results in my work will show or even justify getting it. I mean, I have soo much to use, and yet haven't used it all like cineperc and spitfire perc. Those are more than enough. Now, I am happy I forced myself not to get any orchestral tools. Because this is going to write a new episode here. All i want to see is their new solo and chamber strings and the woodwinds. I will wait about a year or so when this new libraries are out, and then, I can think about updating.

Please VSL if you are listening... find a way to create a "runs designer" for woodwinds and strings.... That will killemall........


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## Dietz (Apr 27, 2017)

TintoL said:


> [...]
> Please VSL if you are listening... find a way to create a "runs designer" for woodwinds and strings.... That will killemall........



VSL is always listening.  

It's available as part of Vienna Instruments Pro since quite a while now, and it's called the APP Sequencer (Auto-Playback and Pattern Sequencer):

VIPRO2_AppSequencer_1024x620.png

-> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Software_Package/Vienna_Instruments_PRO#!Video_Demos


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## jamwerks (Apr 27, 2017)

That's kind of a short intro offer. It's helpful when such offers bleed over into the next month, so that can go on next months damage!

Imo these Synchron samples will be our work-horses for the next 10 years. This new release sample feature should prove workable for instruments also. Will be interesting to see if they also do specialty stuff like what SF has done lately (Albion 5, etc.)


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## artinro (Apr 27, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> That's kind of a short intro offer. It's helpful when such offers bleed over into the next month, so that can go on next months damage!



I may be mistaken, but I think the introductory offer on the percussion lasts until the end of May. The offer that expires soon seems to be only for Vienna software.


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## C-Wave (Apr 27, 2017)

With this huge price (even at standard), I expected 25% instead of 15% intro price.. so guess I have to wait.
patience, patience!


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## jamwerks (Apr 27, 2017)

artinro said:


> I may be mistaken, but I think the introductory offer on the percussion lasts until the end of May. The offer that expires soon seems to be only for Vienna software.


You're correct, it's end of May!


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## benatural (Apr 28, 2017)

The demos sound great to me. The low end on some of those instruments is incredibly clean and detailed. But... I just wonder if I need another perc library? I have so many


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## jamwerks (Apr 28, 2017)

I know I don't need another percussion library, and those 600 euros could've easily gone elsewhere, but I do hear things in there that I haven't be able to do recently with what I have. I'm hoping this is going to be something that simply lets me retire my other orchestral percussion libraries altogether.

I've grown tired of having 3 or 4 of the same types of libraries always open, just to be able to cover the weaknesses of each of them. Judging from the videos, I don't see any weaknesses here. Both in terms of articulations/control & in mixing flexibility!


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## artmuz (Apr 28, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> So much detail, makes all my other percussion libraries seem suddenly out-dated. Nothing negative to say. Sooo much detail & control over that detail. No brainer buy imo.
> 
> No information about a new VIP? I'm hoping to be able to load up two mic positions (close & tree) and control the level of the close on a fader.


Do you mean something like this:


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## novaburst (Apr 28, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> With this huge price (even at standard), I expected 25% instead of 15% intro price.. so guess I have to wait.
> patience, patience!



The good thing is you can buy parts of the percussion at least the parts you love to hear most in a percussion section, i think that's a good way forward, 

So it's what ever you like to hear most prominent in a percussion section.

Later if you want more then go for it.


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## benatural (Apr 28, 2017)

So... In spite of what I said in my last post, I caved and picked up the Standard Version. JRR shop is selling it at a discount and their GROUP coupon works. 

I've been a long time customer of Vienna Symphonic libraries. I bought the Pro Edition for Gigastudio, but decided not to upgrade to the Symphonic Cube after they introduced Vienna Instruments. I did get the Special Edition, and I still think their reed legato sounds are most playable out of all the libraries I've used. 

I'm curious and excited to see what they do with this new Synchron line, the sound and approach seems innovative and I want to hear what that's all about. Though I'm not sure I'll go all in as I have in the past... we'll see where they go with their next Synchron Library.


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## TintoL (Apr 28, 2017)

Dietz said:


> VSL is always listening.
> 
> It's available as part of Vienna Instruments Pro since quite a while now, and it's called the APP Sequencer (Auto-Playback and Pattern Sequencer):
> 
> ...


Thanks Dietz for reminding me about the sequencer feature. I haven't really used it, and that is my bad. Guess I feel a bit overwelmed by it. I was refering to a tool where you can create a full run based on different short prerecorded fraces from 3 to 4,5 and whatever ammount of notes. Now that I reviewed this, I think this tools is even more powerfull that what I have in my mind. The thing is that I still have to write note by note, but, if I can save this as a sort of patch and load it, this could be more powerfull. I am going to give it a try.

I am sure that it will be really hard to pass the wind and string sections with this new approach. It will be awesome to know a release time line to know how much we have to wait for that.

Thanks again.


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## Dietz (Apr 28, 2017)

TintoL said:


> [...] It will be awesome to know a release time line to know how much we have to wait for that.


I have no idea, honestly. New releases will come soon as possible, but they mean lots of work for many people.


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## Lotias (Apr 28, 2017)

omiroad said:


> Dietz, can you say if the new Synchron Stage series will have any effect on MIR? Maybe the stage will be a roompack some day?


I think they've said that yes, there will be a Synchron stage room pack.


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## Lotias (Apr 28, 2017)

Something I think is interesting to note - their mic position chart seems to imply they will be recording a 2nd violins - they have also said the transposition trick messes with the reverb.


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## meradium (Apr 28, 2017)

Are there already any actual users?


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## The Darris (Apr 29, 2017)

Lotias said:


> Something I think is interesting to note - their mic position chart seems to imply they will be recording a 2nd violins - they have also said the transposition trick messes with the reverb.



Yes, the transposition trick does not entirely work well on libraries recorded in ambient spaces. I used to do this with Spitfire but over time I really started to hear how much the room sound clashed. Basically, it's like layering the room ambience in intervals of minor thirds which creates an ominous tone to your music. However so, this works fine for dry libraries as the added reverb isn't altered. So, it would make the most logical sense for them to record 2nd violins in order to get the proper positions and tone of that section. If they don't, than they would be cutting some huge corners with this new series. 

I'm hoping they take they approach of desks. Having smaller divisi sections but also a full ensemble section for unison player so you don't have to layer. I prefer that type of sound versus layered small ensembles for unison. Despite having the true number of players represent, it still sounds thin and weak compared to a recording of 18 players playing together.


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## jamwerks (Apr 29, 2017)

Not a big deal, but look in the picture above. They're recording side-ways in that hall. Seems that what sounds best in scoring stages, lots of room on the sides, but fairly shallow front to back.


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## C-Wave (Apr 29, 2017)

I like that French horns are taken away from the brass, to avoid trumpets polluting their timbre?


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## airflamesred (Apr 29, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> I like that French horns are taken away from the brass, to avoid trumpets polluting their timbre?


Trumpet pollution? Wait til Rodney hears of this!


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## Dietz (Apr 29, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Not a big deal, but look in the picture above. They're recording side-ways in that hall. Seems that what sounds best in scoring stages, lots of room on the side, but fairly shallow front to back.



Exactly!
_
[Boring background information START, skip if you're in a hurry]

The quite unique Synchron Stage has been planned at a time when film-makers had to rely on a single optical mono audio track. All sound elements (dialogue, voice-over/narrator, foley, music, fx) had to get recorded at once (thus the name of the studio). The orchestrators consequently had to use distance as the only way to set instruments distinctively apart from each other. It also meant that width wasn't a factor for acoustic design, and as a matter of fact Hall A of Synchron Stage (like pictured in one of the previous postings) sounds quite mono-ish when you would record instruments positioned in the "orchestra shell" on the left side from the right end of the hall.

The great thing about this in a modern, "lateral" approach is that instruments in the back of the hall won't get drowned in reverb, in addition to the sensation of fully enveloping width.

... it turned out that the reflective "shell" on the left lends itself beautifully to violins and horns, while brass and basses gain weight and space from the additional depth on the right side, so the decision to use the hall like it's done for the Synchron series was evident.

[Boring background information END]_


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## meradium (Apr 29, 2017)

Looking at the size of the library and the individual components I am wondering if VSL is actually using any lossless sample compression similar to Kontakt? It really seems huge compared to all the other libraries out there. Is that truely only because of the many velocity layers? I was also wondering if there is actually any direct access to the manuals available.... Any thoughts?

Love the overall sound! That's for sure. I was thinking about upgrading my Cineperc libraries sooner or later... Now I am wondering which wagon to jump on... Berlin Percussion seems to be the only true contender here. But they are both very different in terms of available instruments and recording detail, though the later one is a bit difficult to compare without proper documentation on both sides :(


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## meradium (Apr 29, 2017)

Nevermind the compression question... found the answer on VSL's site... They are apparently already compressed...


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## erica-grace (Apr 29, 2017)

meradium said:


> Nevermind the compression question... found the answer on VSL's site... They are apparently already compressed...



Link?


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## jamwerks (Apr 29, 2017)

Wondering if in the latest VIP, it will be possible to assign a CC to control the level of the spot mic?


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## Lotias (Apr 29, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Wondering if in the latest VIP, it will be possible to assign a CC to control the level of the spot mic?


AFAIK you can assign pretty much any parameter to CC.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Apr 29, 2017)

meradium said:


> Berlin Percussion seems to be the only true contender here


I just got Berlin and it is very good but it's definitely not as polished as I was hoping. Also as good as capsule is, it still pales in comparison to VIP.
If I could go back in time I would have reconsidered I think.


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## Craig Sharmat (Apr 29, 2017)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I just got Berlin and it is very good but it's definitely not as polished as I was hoping. Also as good as capsule is, it still pales in comparison to VIP.
> If I could go back in time I would have reconsidered I think.



Synchron sounds very good to me but you received a whole lot more instruments with Berlin. A bunch of cymbals, snares etc. About the only thing missing is Timp. If you don't have a good Timp you might consider just picking up the VSL one, but having a timp from Berlin that matches the room might also be tempting (if you don't have it). It may not be as polished as VSL but you still have a whole lot of sonic possibilities with Berlin and it is pretty polished to my ears. I think VSL has certainly set a new precedent but if you are bemoaning buying Berlin just think of what the cost will be for something similar with VSL. If spending is not an issue then have both (it probably is an issue which explains the post).


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## The Darris (Apr 29, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Synchron sounds very good to me but you received a whole lot more instruments with Berlin. A bunch of cymbals, snares etc. About the only thing missing is Timp. If you don't have a good Timp you might consider just picking up the VSL one, but having a timp from Berlin that matches the room might also be tempting (if you don't have it). It may not be as polished as VSL but you still have a whole lot of sonic possibilities with Berlin and it is pretty polished to my ears. I think VSL has certainly set a new precedent but if you are bemoaning buying Berlin just think of what the cost will be for something similar with VSL. If spending is not an issue then have both (it probably is an issue which explains the post).


There is a Timpani expansion for Berlin and it is very good. Still my go to. However, I haven't 100% decided on this library yet. I like that the Timpani was sampled as individual kettles to write more idiomatic solo music for the instrument.


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## Craig Sharmat (Apr 29, 2017)

I mentioned the Berlin timp possibility in my post, maybe I wasn't clear or are you mentioning it again? (no need to answer)


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## The Darris (Apr 30, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> I mentioned the Berlin timp possibility in my post, maybe I wasn't clear or are you mentioning it again? (no need to answer)


Just misunderstood your post. You made it sound like OT doesn't have a Timpani. No worries. From a price point, VSL's new Timpani standalone seems more comprehensive than OT's Timpani expansion. I agree with you there.


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## meradium (Apr 30, 2017)

Rechecked the link and noticed I made a mistake... I confused the Standard figure iwth the Full figure... so actually I am not sure whether there is any lossless compression applied or not... It seems odd that the download is considerably smaller than the actually library installed.

Back to the collection discussion: It is really a shame that there are no proper ways to test the libraries a little bit (say one instrument) in advance before you buy them. That is true for any library out there.

I might actually just pick up the VSL Timpani for now and see how that goes. I'm just a little afraid it may soak me into another major expenditure which I was very eager to resist for some time now


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## jamwerks (Apr 30, 2017)

I'll find out soon enough, but wondering what the ram footprint is with the whole thing loaded; close, tree LR & tree center?


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## meradium (Apr 30, 2017)

Just found all the details of Berlin Percussion http://www.helpdesk.orchestraltools.com/ag_berlin_percussion_articulations.html (here). Now it would be nice to have a look at the VSL manual to compare


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## C-Wave (Apr 30, 2017)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I just got Berlin and it is very good but it's definitely not as polished as I was hoping. Also as good as capsule is, it still pales in comparison to VIP.
> If I could go back in time I would have reconsidered I think.


I don't understand! Why not as polished? Curious to know the difference as I am looking for the ultimate percussion and I am leaning towards Berlin Percussion. The number in mics is much more (compared to standard of course) and fits more applications than Synchron.
check this video at 9:28 to see what I mean:


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## Lee Blaske (Apr 30, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> I don't understand! Why not as polished? Curious to know the difference as I am looking for the ultimate percussion and I am leaning towards Berlin Percussion. The number in mics is much more (compared to standard of course) and fits more applications than Synchron.
> check this video at 9:28 to see what I mean:




The Synchron library looks absolutely amazing. Keep in mind, though, that beyond all of the amazing capabilities Synchron has, you do get down to the basic sounds of the instruments, and they DO sound different. Different instruments, different rooms, different players, different engineers, different mallets, different goals... So, I do think you have to listen to the individual libraries and determine what you personally prefer. They're different, and you might like one more than the other. Computer power might be another factor for you (i'm guessing Synchron is going to need more, especially when used in templates with added processing). And finally, the Berlin Percussion bundle (with timpani) is a more complete library. Lots more instruments (which VSL will most likely be putting out in add-on libraries).


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## C-Wave (Apr 30, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> The Synchron library looks absolutely amazing. Keep in mind, though, that beyond all of the amazing capabilities Synchron has, you do get down to the basic sounds of the instruments, and they DO sound different. Different instruments, different rooms, different players, different engineers, different mallets, different goals... So, I do think you have to listen to the individual libraries and determine what you personally prefer. They're different, and you might like one more than the other. Computer power might be another factor for you (i'm guessing Synchron is going to need more, especially when used in templates with added processing). And finally, the Berlin Percussion bundle (with timpani) is a more complete library. Lots more instruments (which VSL will most likely be putting out in add-on libraries).


A lot more instruments and a lot more mics for less than the Synchron stage standard library. To me the only one that wins is the Synchron Timpani.. luckily it's optional on the Berlin Percussion.
Edit: I put my VSL Timpani (original lib.) for sale.


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## Lee Blaske (Apr 30, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> A lot more instruments and a lot more mics for less than the Synchron stage standard library. To me the only one that wins is the Synchron Timpani.. luckily it's optional on the Berlin Percussion.
> Edit: I put my VSL Timpani (original lib.) for sale.


Yes, the Synchron timpani really do sound sweet.


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## Lee Blaske (Apr 30, 2017)

For people who have been studying this library really closely, does anyone have a definitive answer as to whether there's any point in going past the standard library if you're not producing music in surround?


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## Lotias (Apr 30, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> For people who have been studying this library really closely, does anyone have a definitive answer as to whether there's any point in going past the standard library if you're not producing music in surround?


There's also the Auro 3D format, but otherwise I can't think of any. I usually just add my own reverb if I want something to sound _really_ ambient, and the Standard comes with every articulation (which probably explains the price).


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## synergy543 (Apr 30, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> For people who have been studying this library really closely, does anyone have a definitive answer as to whether there's any point in going past the standard library if you're not producing music in surround?


In Berlin for example, sometimes mixing the AB and surround works as a nice alternative to Close and Decca. Its just a personal choice. I may be wrong but I recall Andy Blaney relied heavily on the outriggers in Spitfire too. Just different sound choices that are nice to have. Though if the rest of the VSL Synchron library is modeled the same way, additional mic choices could cost 50% more.

As far as I know, there has not been an example of the VSL Surround mics on any of the demos so far. Has anyone heard examples these?


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## Cass Hansen (Apr 30, 2017)

Have basic question on Full library vs. Standard. Can you hear the difference on stereo monitors/ headphones when using the extra *"high stereo mic Auro 3D* " in your mix or do you have to have the Auro 3D headphone/ stereo plugin on your computer to decode it? which costs over a $1,000 to buy. Can't find any track comparisons between standard stereo and Auro 3D stereo. That is why I ask.


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## jamwerks (Apr 30, 2017)

Auro 3D only useful imo if the film is delivered in Auro 3D, so there you'll be delivering a stem for that. Cost for full probably has a commission going to Auro.


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## Cass Hansen (Apr 30, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Auro 3D only useful imo if the film is delivered in Auro 3D, so there you'll be delivering a stem for that. Cost for full probably has a commission going to Auro.


Thanks for the reply jamwerks. Not really familiar with the Auro decoding format.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Apr 30, 2017)

Atmos decoding is done only with Dolby Theater Processors. Auro3D decoding is done by their processor. These are sold to theaters and very high end mix stages. It is important to note that you wouldn't have one of these in your composing studio.

Each format has its own delivery specs. Each one can take Quad (4.0), standard 5.1, or 7.1 signals as inputs. 

Atmos specifies a 7.1.2 "bed". The .2 is two height speakers. In Atmos this is the largest "base" delivery, but you could also feed quad, 5.1, etc as inputs to the mix. Additional "channels " beyond this are not routed into Atmos as "channels" - they are audio "objects". The Atmos encoder is told where these objects should be placed in the 3D space and how they move (if they do). The Atmos decoder works with up to 64 speakers. It distributes the bed channels and the object channels according to Dolby's algorithm. The only way to hear the object channels is through a Dolby processor or a ProTools rig with the Dolby plugin. 

Auro3D is an 11.1 system. It is basically normal 5.1 with a 5.0 second height layer and a .1 "top" or "Voice of God" layer. Similarly this 11.1 mix is decoded by their processor to a much larger set of speakers. 

The decoder and "theater" speaker system is very important if you are in a world-class mix stage. 

In your studio, you wouldn't do this. For example, I believe Mr. Zimmer works in quad in his studio. Alan Myerson takes this and puts it into the 5.1 mix, or whatever output mix format is demanded by the mix stage. 

If you wanted to work with the extra height samples, you would simply add height speakers to your existing surround rig and map the appropriate sample content to them. You might do a bunch of reverb tricks to fill out spaces that you don't have unique sample conent for with general ambiance (this is done in upmixing stereo to surround already). You would hear this content correctly, and then it would be part of the delivery package to the mix stage. 

I am very excited about how pleasant it could be to work with this extra audio data. I don't presently have a need to deliver this externally. Outside of the A-lister's I don't think anyone in television or film would be expected to deliver for immersive audio today - it is not much of a consumer format yet. This is exciting, cutting-edge stuff that we are going to get a chance to explore. 

Working with full range speakers (which is the Atmos spec), I don't see a need for a sub for music. Usually in film, the center channel is not for music, but dialog. That means effectively "quad", and many libraries have enough mics to give you several things to blend into the main stereo pair, and some ambience mics that can route to the surrounds. With a "quad" setup and two extra "height" speakers, immersive audio could be done in a composer's studio with the Syncron mic layout. There's mics that can feed all pairs in a radically immersive way compared to stereo. I'm targeting moving to quad and then to six speakers. I've wanted to play with immersive audio for some time, and not for "whooshes".


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## muk (May 7, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> For people who have been studying this library really closely, does anyone have a definitive answer as to whether there's any point in going past the standard library if you're not producing music in surround?



Not a definite answer, but one tentative indication that unfortunately maybe yes, there could be a point. There is one comparison up under the demos. The same piece with a stereo mix and a surround to stereo-downmix. To my ears the downmix has a wider stage and better instrument separation. The stereo mix sounds rather narrow in comparison. I can't say how big a difference it will make in day to day use, but in this single piece I clearly prefer the surround-downmix.


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## Dietz (May 7, 2017)

ji eff said:


> @Dietz
> 
> Just a thought... If by the end of this monumental new series you guys held a minute of silence with that mic setup on, I'm sure many users would be thrilled to have some fresh air to fill the gaps in their creations.


That's called "RoomTone" and is part of MIR since it appeared on the market.


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## C-Wave (May 7, 2017)

muk said:


> Not a definite answer, but one tentative indication that unfortunately maybe yes, there could be a point. There is one comparison up under the demos. The same piece with a stereo mix and a surround to stereo-downmix. To my ears the downmix has a wider stage and better instrument separation. The stereo mix sounds rather narrow in comparison. I can't say how big a difference it will make in day to day use, but in this single piece I clearly prefer the surround-downmix.


Would you put a link to the demo video, and if possible at which min:sec this is, as I am about to decide to purchase the stereo version, and this can be a critical part of my decision. Thanks!


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## camelot (May 8, 2017)

meradium said:


> Back to the collection discussion: It is really a shame that there are no proper ways to test the libraries a little bit (say one instrument) in advance before you buy them. That is true for any library out there.


Yes, you can. That is what VSL created the Audition Credit for. For EUR 18/h, you can test the complete VSL collection including all samples over an online version of the VIPlayer.


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## muk (May 8, 2017)

It's not in a video, but under demos:

https://www.vsl.co.at/de/Percussion_Complete/Synchron_Percussion_I#!Demos

The first and the second one, called 'SY-4U' by Johannes Vogel. The first one is the stereo mix, the second one the surround to stereo-downmix. I would be interested to hear what you make of this comparison.


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## Lotias (May 8, 2017)

muk said:


> It's not in a video, but under demos:
> 
> https://www.vsl.co.at/de/Percussion_Complete/Synchron_Percussion_I#!Demos
> 
> The first and the second one, called 'SY-4U' by Johannes Vogel. The first one is the stereo mix, the second one the surround to stereo-downmix. I would be interested to hear what you make of this comparison.


The surround to stereo definitely has a wider stereo field, but I doubt if that couldn't be achieved without the surround microphones and a bit of clever extra reverb.


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## Mihkel Zilmer (May 8, 2017)

I've been using the Synchron Percussion since the day it came out. Unfortunately I can't share any of the examples at this time as it's all for an ongoing commercial project... 

I decided to start with the standard version, as in general I prefer a closer, more focused sound in my productions. I'd say it's a matter of preference, if you are working in stereo. It's pretty simple to blend in a bit of good reverb and get a wider and more distant sound out of the stereo mics if necessary. If you're working in surround though then these extra mic positions are invaluable.

The real selling point for me was the pristine quality of the samples. Every ambient library suffers from noise build-up as multiple samples are triggered. Some have chosen to fight this with noise reduction and had a certain degree of success, while others have really hurt their source material in the process. The VSL offering has the cleanest percussion samples I've heard - comparing to most of the other big names in the game. 

The other side of the coin is that these samples are very natural sounding. While this suits my personal aesthetic, and leaves a lot of room for processing the samples in whichever way you see fit, if you are looking for out-of-the-box hit-you-straight-in-the-face trailer sounds, this library might not be your best bet.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (May 8, 2017)

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> I've been using the Synchron Percussion since the day it came out. Unfortunately I can't share any of the examples at this time as it's all for an ongoing commercial project...
> 
> I decided to start with the standard version, as in general I prefer a closer, more focused sound in my productions. I'd say it's a matter of preference, if you are working in stereo. It's pretty simple to blend in a bit of good reverb and get a wider and more distant sound out of the stereo mics if necessary. If you're working in surround though then these extra mic positions are invaluable.
> 
> ...



I'm so very jealous


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## C-Wave (May 11, 2017)

Bought standard version. Happy I waited. Now I wanna sell the rest of my VSL libraries in anticipation of Synchron versions! Keep in mind thought Synchron requirements are huge and SSD's are still not THAT cheap!


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## benatural (May 11, 2017)

Caved and upgraded to the full version, I like the sound of the downmixed surround mixes! Lusher and wider. Plus they include premade VEP instances so you can jump right in. 

One nice thing they added to the free version of Vienna Instruments is the ability to purge and then load on demand with midi activity just like in Kontakt. It used to be part of the Pro version of VI but now it's a standard feature. Very happy about that.


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## cadenzajon (May 23, 2017)

VSL just sent a friendly update to all their Synchron owners with some cool news... the salient details:

1) We have uploaded an UPDATE for SYNCHRON TIMPANI I, with improved tuning especially for the lower timpani.

2) As will be announced in our current newsletter, we have added a FREE basic Giant Taiko drum set for all users of the complete Synchron Percussion I (Standard or Full Library gets you the respective Giant Taiko drum).

3) Last but not least: We have created VI PRO Presets for all users of the Synchron Percussion I Full Library, in case you’d like to load all mic positions into 1 instance of VI PRO and use the integrated slot mixer to customize your down-mix from Surround to Stereo. The settings are identical with the settings in your Vienna Ensemble Presets (just like the STEREO-MIX presets in VI).


It just keeps getting better. Thanks, VSL!


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## novaburst (May 23, 2017)

cadenzajon said:


> Giant Taiko drum set for all users of the complete Synchron Percussion I (Standard or Full Library gets you the respective Giant Taiko drum)



Well I am glad they finally gave in and added the Taiko as it is part of there older percussion set, so thumbs up VSL


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## C-Wave (May 23, 2017)

novaburst said:


> Well I am glad they finally gave in and added the Taiko as it is part of there older percussion set, so thumbs up VSL


Well they did well.. I wish they also do the same for the Marimba.. that was in the old series too but not in the new one.


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## cadenzajon (May 23, 2017)

Another note from the email:

"The Synchron Stage Roompack for MIR PRO is getting its finishing touches as you read these lines, and the system works even better than we expected!"

Probably getting ready for a release next month. I'm not sure how far away MirX releases usually are from the MIR PRO roompacks, but that's what I'm really waiting for...


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## cadenzajon (May 23, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> Well they did well.. I wish they also do the same for the Marimba.. that was in the old series too but not in the new one.


Indeed, the marimba is sorely lacking in Synchron Perc 1 and is a desperately needed addition...


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## novaburst (May 23, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> Well they did well.. I wish they also do the same for the Marimba.. that was in the old series too but not in the new one.



I would think it would a good thing to do like for like, and hope this would be there thinking, as the Taiko dropped in, the Marimba maybe in the making too and soon to make an appearance.


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## Dietz (May 23, 2017)

cadenzajon said:


> I'm not sure how far away MirX releases usually are from the MIR PRO roompacks, but that's what I'm really waiting for...



I hear you.  ... but please don't hold your breath. Usually it takes me about four to six weeks to create all the 450+ presets for a new MIRx Venue. I won't get into MIRx for Synchron Stage too soon as I finished the Pernegg Monastery for MIRx just a few weeks ago, and I'm not ready yet to listen to the same test sequences again and again for such a long time. 8-P


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## C-Wave (May 23, 2017)

I just got VSL Newsletter; Great news: Mir roompack 6 (Synchron) will be free for all registered owners of Synchron Pwecussion I customers. From newsletter:
_"RoomPack 6 - Synchron Stage Vienna_ will be available at a special introductory price of €145. It will be *free for registered users of Synchron Percussion I* during the _RoomPack's_ introductory period!"


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## FriFlo (May 24, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> I just got VSL Newsletter; Great news: Mir roompack 6 (Synchron) will be free for all registered owners of Synchron Pwecussion I customers. From newsletter:
> _"RoomPack 6 - Synchron Stage Vienna_ will be available at a special introductory price of €145. It will be *free for registered users of Synchron Percussion I* during the _RoomPack's_ introductory period!"


I got that, too, and it could convince me to jump on board. Just to be sure: free during the Roompacks introductory period means I can keep using it for free after that introductory period as well? I am almost certain, but it is formulated in a slightly confusing way ...


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## C-Wave (May 24, 2017)

Not just that, but from the product's main page on their web site, the taiko is also part of the special offer. I doubt it will "expire" when the special intro. is over!


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## FriFlo (May 25, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> Not just that, but from the product's main page on their web site, the taiko is also part of the special offer. I doubt it will "expire" when the special intro. is over!


Yeah, it is a little bit strange IMHO to offer an instrument exclusively for an introductory offer ... It could mean it turned out bad, so that they don't want to sell it  ... why would I wanna have a bad instrument as a bonus? So, this wouldn't make sense. And if it is up to the standard of the rest of the library ... why would you not wanna sell it to your customers after the release? I remember they offered their Jazz drums with the same announcement as a freebie, if you bought VSL suite ... It is available for sale now, as far as I know!
No, these are just the usual marketing tricks and it is also new for VSL to make an introductory offer and then a few day later to announce further goodies ... it keeps people talking about you. Seems like they are joining this marketing game more from now on, which I find regrettable, but you rarely find anyone now a days who doesn't play this game ...
Anyway, I was keen on trying the Synchron MIR package, as I somehow hope it will improve MIR a little, if they finally have their own stage to record convolution samples in and compare the convoluted samples with real recordings. I don't think it will be a game changer, but it could improve some things. Also, I am pretty sure that I will buy the Synchron Series anyway at some point, so it looks like a good deal to jump in now, even though I was planning to hold off with this for a while, as I have enough libraries to work with at this point (actually, more than I could even use  ). Hence, if anyone happens to know for sure how to interpret the offer regarding the MIR package, it would be great to know for me to make a decision. Thanks!


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## FriFlo (May 26, 2017)

I got a reply from VSL directly: Room pack 6 (Synchron Stage) will indeed be free for all Synchron Percussion 1 buyers.


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## FabioA (May 26, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> Well they did well.. I wish they also do the same for the Marimba.. that was in the old series too but not in the new one.


I suppose there will be a Synchron Mallets II with that..!


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## Lee Blaske (May 30, 2017)

Okay, I have to say that after being initially skeptical of the new Synchron library, I watched all the videos and listened to all the demos, and I've been won over. Just placed an order before the introductory offer expired. I shouldn't have doubted it, but VSL is really ahead of the pack. I already have a mountain of orchestral samples, but it looks like VSL is going to be gradually replacing that with a brand new mountain. 

The fit and finish of VSL products is just hard to beat. I've had a few too many disappointments from other manufactures where libraries have some glaring problems.


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## FriFlo (May 31, 2017)

I have done the same and so far enjoy the patches a lot! I just hope, they will rework some things in VIpro a bit, as microphone handling is not very straight forward IMO. It should be possible to load and unload sample content of each microphone set individually (background loading) and I want to be able to remotely do that via midi (purge/unpurge, levels and panning). I know you can route the microphone positions via VEpro and automate the volumes and panning, but the purge-part is missing ... 
This seems to be the most basic thing missing, which is possible with every Kontakt library. With other volumes of Synchron orchestra coming out this would be really necessary. Just for the Percussion I can bare to live without it.


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## FabioA (May 31, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> I have done the same and so far enjoy the patches a lot! I just hope, they will rework some things in VIpro a bit, as microphone handling is not very straight forward IMO. It should be possible to load and unload sample content of each microphone set individually (background loading) and I want to be able to remotely do that via midi (purge/unpurge, levels and panning). I know you can route the microphone positions via VEpro and automate the volumes and panning, but the purge-part is missing ...
> This seems to be the most basic thing missing, which is possible with every Kontakt library. With other volumes of Synchron orchestra coming out this would be really necessary. Just for the Percussion I can bare to live without it.



I would not be surprised if we will see a Vienna Instrument Pro 3 improving manly that feature. If we think about that, VI Pro was designed to work with single mic libraries (this is the very first multi-mic wet library for VSL). It's just my thought but VI pro may be updated during the releasing of Synchron Series.


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## C-Wave (May 31, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> I have done the same and so far enjoy the patches a lot! I just hope, they will rework some things in VIpro a bit, as microphone handling is not very straight forward IMO. It should be possible to load and unload sample content of each microphone set individually (background loading) and I want to be able to remotely do that via midi (purge/unpurge, levels and panning). I know you can route the microphone positions via VEpro and automate the volumes and panning, but the purge-part is missing ...
> This seems to be the most basic thing missing, which is possible with every Kontakt library. With other volumes of Synchron orchestra coming out this would be really necessary. Just for the Percussion I can bare to live without it.


I believe I heard Paul saying in the Synchron setup video that indeed they added the purge function with their latest VI Pro update.


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## benatural (May 31, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> I believe I heard Paul saying in the Synchron setup video that indeed they added the purge function with their latest VI Pro update.


Purge + MIDI activate is in the new Vienna Instruments update, the free one.


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## C-Wave (May 31, 2017)

Asked VSL for future support for HD displays (4K) like VE Pro and NI Komplete Kontrol.


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## Symfoniq (Jun 1, 2017)

I purchased Synchron Percussion yesterday and played with it a bit last night (thank goodness for gigabit fiber).

The library sounds fantastic. I spent some time comparing Synchron Percussion with VSL's dry percussion, using Nimbus, R4, and Pro-R in an attempt to get the dry percussion to sit back in the "room" similarly to Synchron's mid and main mics. While I got some pleasing sounds using algo reverb on the dry percussion, it never had the same sense of depth or width as Synchron percussion.

In terms of workflow, it's incredibly nice to be able to throw a close mic in slot 1A, a main mic in slot 1B, and use the slot cross-fade fader to move the sample closer or farther back into the room. Much less fiddly than adjusting reverb parameters on the dry percussion.

If future Synchron sample libraries have this sound while retaining the precision and legato that VSL are famous for, it bodes well for the series.


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## holywilly (Jun 1, 2017)

I wanna ask whether the full version (with extra surround mic's) take any effects if I only work in stereo environment?

Or the standard version is sufficient for stereo mix?


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## muk (Jun 1, 2017)

holywilly said:


> I wanna ask whether the full version (with extra surround mic's) take any effects if I only work in stereo environment?
> 
> Or the standard version is sufficient for stereo mix?



That's the 600$-question. The surround-to-stereo-downmix on the VSL demo-page has a wider stereo image and sounds nicer to me than the stereo mix. Maybe you can achieve similar results with the stereo mix and a light touch of additional reverb. If not then it's up to you to decide if the difference is worth 600$ and the additional resources (HD space and RAM) to you.


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## muziksculp (Jun 1, 2017)

I'm waiting for VSL's Synchron Strings, I have OT. Berlin Percussion main & Timpani Libraries. (bundle). So, I think I can wait until much later to add VSL Synchron Percussion, and most likely the Standard version should be good enough. 

Hopefully we will have VSL Synchron Strings by Fall this year, (just hoping that's the case), what are your guesses/expectations as to when VSL Synch. Strings will be released ?


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## FabioA (Jun 1, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> I'm waiting for VSL's Synchron Strings, I have OT. Berlin Percussion main & Timpani Libraries. (bundle). So, I think I can wait until much later to add VSL Synchron Percussion, and most likely the Standard version should be good enough.
> 
> Hopefully we will have VSL Synchron Strings by Fall this year, (just hoping that's the case), what are your guesses/expectations as to when VSL Synch. Strings will be released ?


Maybe special prices on String collections this month mean something!


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## muziksculp (Jun 1, 2017)

I wonder if they will have special discounts for those of us who already have some of their Strings Libraries to upgrade to the new Synchron Strings ? (hopefully the answer is yes).


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## FriFlo (Jun 1, 2017)

Well, there was no discount for VSL Percussion owners on the Synchron percussion ... so, there is no reason to believe, there will be one for the strings. Since I own all VSL Stings except for the DS II I sure hope there will be one!


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## muziksculp (Jun 1, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> Well, there was no discount for VSL Percussion owners on the Synchron percussion ... so, there is no reason to believe, there will be one for the strings. Since I own all VSL Stings except for the DS II I sure hope there will be one!



True, there was no special upgrade pricing for those who have VSL Perc. libraries, and are planning to buy the new Synchron Perc. , it would have been nice if this was possible, so yes, I wonder if they will honor any type of upgrade from their current Strings to the Sychron Strings ? Maybe not, but I hope they do. 

I have quite a bit of their VSL Strings Libraries, but don't have any of their Perc. Libraries.


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## FabioA (Jun 1, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> True, there was no special upgrade pricing for those who have VSL Perc. libraries, and are planning to buy the new Synchron Perc. , it would have been nice if this was possible, so yes, I wonder if they will honor any type of upgrade from their current Strings to the Sychron Strings ? Maybe not, but I hope they do.
> 
> I have quite a bit of their VSL Strings Libraries, but don't have any of their Perc. Libraries.


Honestely I don't see the point. Do you have a discount on your new mobile if you already purchased one from a certain brand?


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## muziksculp (Jun 1, 2017)

FabioA said:


> Honestely I don't see the point. Do you have a discount on your new mobile if you already purchased one from a certain brand?



Well... The point is simple, basically, It would be nice if that happens, but not something I would be complaining about if it didn't happen. As long as they have some type of intro special pricing, which they usually do, that should be good enough, if they make it even more attractive by offering additional discounts to those who own some of their other libraries, that would be great too.


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## FabioA (Jun 1, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> Well... The point is simple, basically, It would be nice if that happens, but not something I would be complaining about if it didn't happen. As long as they have some type of intro special pricing, which they usually do, that should be good enough, if they make it even more attractive by offering additional discounts to those who own some of their other libraries, that would be great too.


Don't get me wrong, I would be happy as you  
But special prices for previous costumers are unlikely. Personally i would agree 100% with you for Vienna Super Package owners disounts..


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## muk (Jun 2, 2017)

Instead of a discount I'd rather they'd fix the ghastly if-your-dongle-gets-stolen-you-are-screwed-policy. One of the main reasons I didn't buy Synchron Percussion immediately. It's just a huge risk, and I've got enough money to lose on that plastic stick without having added any Synchron libraries. But I am looking forward to hear how VSL handles ambient legato.


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## C-Wave (Jun 2, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> I got a reply from VSL directly: Room pack 6 (Synchron Stage) will indeed be free for all Synchron Percussion 1 buyers.


Just a bit of info on the Taiko "bonus" in case it helps clarify, VSL page says "Introductory bonus".. so ***Introductory***.


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## T.j. (Jun 7, 2017)

Little bit off topic but here's a question for VSL Perc users:

If you didn't have the original percussion set already (https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Percussion_Complete/Percussion), 
would you still buy it in 2017?
It actually interests me more because of the dry recording approach and the amount of instruments / articulations.
Mostly however, Synchron series will be out of my budget, especially if it's only part 1.
Add the new ssd i'd have to buy plus the Pro Instrument player.. I can't!

Original Perc is around 450,- with the current sale and it looks attractive;
Having different beaters for each instrument in particular interest me, I never understood why not all big percussion libraries have this (essential) feature set.
It would be my first VSL library (except for the little free one that came with VePro) and it's still a LOT of money (for me) so I'm hesitant.

All feedback is appreciated!


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## Lee Blaske (Jun 7, 2017)

T.j. said:


> Little bit off topic but here's a question for VSL Perc users:
> 
> If you didn't have the original percussion set already (https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Percussion_Complete/Percussion),
> would you still buy it in 2017?



You might want to consider that the original percussion library, though groundbreaking in its day (and still very usable today), is now quite long in tooth. It was introduced originally for the GigaSampler platform. That's a LONG time ago in computer/software terms. If you're making a fresh purchase, I think going the Synchron route would be best. Better to look toward the future. VSL has undoubtedly learned a LOT in the intervening years.


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## T.j. (Jun 7, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> You might want to consider that the original percussion library, though groundbreaking in its day (and still very usable today), is now quite long in tooth. It was introduced originally for the GigaSampler platform. That's a LONG time ago in computer/software terms. If you're making a fresh purchase, I think going the Synchron route would be best. Better to look toward the future. VSL has undoubtedly learned a LOT in the intervening years.



Very useful info Lee, thank you very much!

If you care to answer some more:
What would you say gives it's age away the most? is it the sound? Playability?


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## FabioA (Jun 7, 2017)

T.j. said:


> Very useful info Lee, thank you very much!
> 
> If you care to answer some more:
> What would you say gives it's age away the most? is it the sound? Playability?


In my opinion percussion samples are the easiest ones to sample and to script. But very old libraries suffer the computer limits of their time (memory, ram, cpu). That means poor number of layers, sample length, number of round robins etc.


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## T.j. (Jun 7, 2017)

Disregard my questions,

Listening to the demo's on some good headphones told me all I needed to know..
the difference in quality is quite stunning.


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## muziksculp (Jun 7, 2017)

The real Litmus test for VSL's Synchron Line is going to be *Synchron Strings*. 

Can't wait to hear how they will sound compared to Spirtfire, OT, and other high-quality wet String libraries.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 7, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> The real Litmus test for VSL's Synchron Line is going to be *Synchron Strings*.
> 
> Can't wait to hear how they will sound compared to Spirtfire, OT, and other high-quality wet String libraries.



I actually think ambience is way more important for brass.


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## meradium (Jun 7, 2017)

Don't forget to add to your purchase bill the price of the VI Pro Player to really use this library efficiently on an SSD based machine... Because otherwise... Well, you are  as there is no possibility to adjust the pre-buffer setting in the included free player.


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## FabioA (Jun 7, 2017)

meradium said:


> Don't forget to add to your purchase bill the price of the VI Pro Player to really use this library efficiently on an SSD based machine... Because otherwise... Well, you are  as there is no possibility to adjust the pre-buffer setting in the included free player.



Ahah, have you thought about a big tattoo on your back with that?


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## meradium (Jun 7, 2017)

FabioA, I know you don't like it. I wonder whether you get some kind of royalties for promoting company policy 

Just making sure people are aware of it.


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## FabioA (Jun 7, 2017)

meradium said:


> FabioA, I know you don't like it. I wonder whether you get some kind of royalties for promoting company policy
> 
> Just making sure people are aware of it.



Not at all. And I have only Dimension Strings, VI pro and VE Pro from VSL at the moment. I have far more products from other companies, first of all EastWest, because I started many years ago with their products.
I'm just tired of reading shitty comment over VSL and EW for really questionable matters, while everyone seems so happy with kontakt world. Sounds to me like people complains about library they HAVE to pay, while their quite ok with stuff they can easily find around internet.
I don't want to accuse anyone, even you (and other before) are accusing others (and me) to have ulterior motive to say what we think.

For me your situation is really, really simple.
You, not me, said that every serious "virtual orchestrator" with a proper setup has ssd only for libraries streaming. Then VSL probably think that PRO users are interest in their PRO version, and they can afford VI pro because the time you can save with it (if you have some time to learn it) will pay you back. So they probably think a beginner user has HDs and just need VI standard. PRO users can and would prefer the PRO version, that offers much much more than just the pre-load buffer. But you say you don't need any other function of VI pro, and I can't but trust you!


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## meradium (Jun 7, 2017)

Not sure what you were after here, but be asured that I own all the suff that I use (even though I employed a Hackintosh until not so recently ago).

Let's not start another "I don't like the dongle thing" discussion. In fact this is the terrible downside of piracy which basically means all legitimate users have to pay premium yet again for them to refinance the eLicencer fee, which sure exists.

And yes, I hate being locked in via some sort of electronic device. But luckyly so far I have not had any serious issues with it unlike many other people. Should I at some point start deploying more machines and run into licensing issues of any crazy sort (which is unfortunately theoretically possible though unlikely at this point) I might reconsider this relaxed position.


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## PhJ (Jun 7, 2017)

FabioA said:


> I'm just tired of reading shitty comment over VSL and EW for really questionable matters, while everyone seems so happy with kontakt world. !



That's not how I would describe meradium's concerns.
Both EW's Play and NI's Kontakt player allow you to change pre-load settings.
The free version of VSL's VI doesn't.
Seeing how large the new libraries are, it might be worth mentioning ?


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## FabioA (Jun 7, 2017)

PhJ said:


> That's not how I would describe meradium's concerns.
> Both EW's Play and NI's Kontakt player allow you to change pre-load settings.
> The free version of VSL's VI doesn't.
> Seeing how large the new libraries are, it might be worth mentioning ?


..and in PLAY you can't change nothing of patches, you can't add articulations, switch between velocity crossfade on/off, otherwise I would still use much more SO.
In kontakt you have to play with the specific rules of the library you are using; sometimes you can't chance/add articulations, or you have a limit on articulations on the same patch. And really, the 75% of the GUI is a waste of pixel. 
These are very basics features for nowadays orchestral libraries, imo. You can't solve these problems, not even purchasing kontakt (for 399 actually, made exception of special bundles). 
But with 145 euros of VI pro you don't have any limits imo, at least I haven't. Of course, you have to like vsl libraries, because you can run just those libraries on it.


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## muk (Jun 7, 2017)

Okay gents, I think the point about the preload buffer has come across. Both sides. Instead I'd be interested to hear some opinions about the library of people who bought it. How's the sound? Useability? Any standout instruments/patches? And can anybody compare it with Hollywood Percussion Diamond?


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## meradium (Jun 7, 2017)

Again, I don't care what I can change in the sampler or what not. I never did most of the time anyway. I set everything up, configure Cubase or my controller to send the right commands when needed an off I go. Chances are I will not touch the sample GUI again for a long long, very long time.

Your approach may differ.

Still, this has nothing to do with something like a pre-buffer variable.


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## meradium (Jun 7, 2017)

muk said:


> Okay gents, I think the point about the preload buffer has come across. Both sides. Instead I'd be interested to hear some opinions about the library of people who bought it. How's the sound? Useability? Any standout instruments/patches? And can anybody compare it with Hollywood Percussion Diamond?



Would love to comment on this because that's what this thread should be about... but... erm... well...


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## muk (Jun 10, 2017)

So, what do the people who have Synchron Percussion and VI Pro think? Are you happy with your purchase?


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Jun 10, 2017)

muk said:


> So, what do the people who have Synchron Percussion and VI Pro think? Are you happy with your purchase?



Ah, to be on topic again... I was originally lured in by the pristine quality of the samples I heard in the demos.
For comparable, 'traditional' orchestral percussion, I have and regularly use Spitfire Percussion, Berlin Percussion and CinePerc, so I am clearly more than covered when it comes to orchestral percussion. But I am still glad I bought SY percussion, because honestly it's seen use in every project I've worked on since the day I got it.

Sound - there's less low-mid room build-up and 'honk' in these samples than the contenders. The sound is more clean and clinical, has perhaps a bit less 'character', but if I'm honest that just makes it more versatile in my eyes. Oh, and worth mentioning - the noise floor is incredibly low. I can mash my entire forearm down on the keys with the celesta or xylo and whereas most other libraries will at that point cover everything with a blanket of noise and hiss, the SY percussion fares far far better.

Standout patches - almost all of them, really. The timpani are great (though Berlin Perc timps are fantastic too), _gran cassa_ kicks some serious ass. Even the added bonus taiko went straight into a project, as it fit into the mix better than my HZ perc & 8Dio taikos...

I'd love to see another snare. The one they sampled is nice, but I'd also love to have a snappier, metal snare. Like a brass Ludwig or something along those lines.

Edit: I just realised I'd said most of this in this thread already a month ago.. Oh well nevermind, my opinion has not changed in that time


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## Kristoben (Jun 26, 2017)

Hey everybody. This library is at the top of my wish list but I would just like to bump the thread to ask if anybody has come across a demo yet showcasing the different mics? I know of the one on the VSL page but I would love to hear something like a single patch being run through with the different mics.


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## jamwerks (Oct 13, 2018)

Well now that it's a real Synchron, we can speak more about it. Seems like a great value given all the detail (mallets, playing technics, velocity layers, release samples, etc.). Especially being now again on sale. I'm hoping to find this will replace all my other orchestral percussion sounds.


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## Lee Blaske (Oct 13, 2018)

jamwerks said:


> Well now that it's a real Synchron, we can speak more about it. Seems like a great value given all the detail (mallets, playing technics, velocity layers, release samples, etc.). Especially being now again on sale. I'm hoping to find this will replace all my other orchestral percussion sounds.


What other libraries do you have? I’ve got a number of percussion libraries including Synchron, and if I could have only one along while stranded on a desert island, it would either be OT’s Berlin percussion, or EW’s Hollywood Percussion. The Synchron library is pretty limited. You only get one snare drum. I find OT’s timpani to be vastly more usable for me, and their orchestra bells are fantastic. EW really knows how to capture cymbals. Spend time listening to all the demos from various companies. It’s certainly possible that the Synchron sound is the one you want. I think we all go into any major library purchase thinking: “THIS new library is going to replace the other libraries I currently own!” But, sample library technology and available content has really matured. Lots of instruments have been meticulously captured by a number of companies, and the quality of some of those efforts (instrument, player, hall, recording engineer, library assembly) might be hard to beat. Sometimes, all the right things come together. Sometimes they don’t.


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## jamwerks (Oct 13, 2018)

I'm getting my head around the Synchron Player & setting up my expression maps. Really like what I hear so far. I own also SF & CinePerc. Interesting what @Lee Blaske says above about Cymbals and Timb. The QL people really know percussion (I looove Stormdrum 3), so I'm not surprised the Cymbals shine in the EW library.

I don't use Timpani much but would be interested to hear opinions and details. It's really only using these things that one starts to notice missing elements, preferences, etc.

I am going to have to keep using the Marimba, Vibes and other instruments from SF until VSL does the Perc II. I'm also loving how the Percussion sound on the Synchron stage in general. Makes me think Brass could sound wonderful in there!


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## Leo (Oct 13, 2018)

ka00 said:


> If anyone is on the fence about this and looking for a deal, Time + Space has an additional 20% for newsletter subscribers or loyal customers or some such. For Synchron Perc Standard I just paid $489 USD. Don’t know if you can just sign up now and get the discount though.
> 
> I didn’t do a ton of research on this library but I’m hoping the Synchron approach of deep sampling pays off on percussion. And there’ll be no legato to complain about.



great to know, but, Mallets is on full price €195, and Syn.perc for €596.26, 
so you must use magics dirty tricks, yes - you Harry Potter!


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## Leo (Oct 13, 2018)

Than, I will be curious about your first impressions. My interest is mostly on celesta.


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## jamwerks (Oct 15, 2018)

Well I'm really impressed with the Synchron Percussion. It is replacing my other symphonic perc libraries (except for Desk belles, Crotales, Vibes & Marimba that it doesn't have). The ability to choose the beater didn't really catch my eye at the beginning, but it's great to be able to really choose each sound as I like, and really simply with the Synchron Tree articulation management. There are so many different technics covered that simply aren't in other libraries!

And the presets are much appreciated. Most of the setting-up has already been done.

I am wondering about the reasoning behind splitting the tree mic's into its 3 discrete channels, instead of just a 2 channel mixdown of those? It would save a bit of ram & cpu. Would we ever want to alter the ratio between center & sides?


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