# Mark Northam -- the myth of the "working composer"



## JohnG (Jul 28, 2010)

Mark Northam says:

"It’s unfortunate when dated stereotypes outlive their 'use by' date, but that’s exactly what happens when the term 'working composer' is defined by Hollywood film music types as a busy Hollywood composer working on a busy network series. For those sad folks still living in the past, the 90s called and they want their definition back."

"...most 'working composers' are working very hard dividing their time and talents among multiple avenues for gaining work including breaking into film via indie and low-budget films, doing library work to make ends meet (or as a full time 'working' career!), pitching for lucrative network and series work in hopes of a lucky break, and just trying to make ends meet as part of a severely oversupplied industry in a severely sagging economy."

_-- Mark Northam, writing for Film Music Magazine_

http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=5790


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## Ashermusic (Jul 28, 2010)

Although I am now doing a monthly column for Film Music Magazine, I want to state that although I respect him, Mark and I do not exactly see eye to eye on this. He ignores the fact that many of those "non-LA" based composers are doing crappy work that only works with the picture because LA based music editors MAKE it work and the producers and directors do not care as long as they can get it on the cheap.

Quite frankly, there are very few "working composers" outside of the major industry areas like LA, NYC, London, Hamburg, Sydney, etc. who have as firm a grasp on how music should work to picture as well as we who have done this for years do.

But hey, maybe I too am just a "veteran elitist."


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## rgames (Jul 28, 2010)

I tend to agree with Jay - what percentage of composers who do it for a living are outside those centers? I'm guessing it's a low percentage.

I know a number of folks involved in the music business (mostly publishing, it seems) who also compose but they certainly don't earn the majority of their income from it.

It's the same across the music biz though - I know a lot more performers than composers and the vast majority of them make their living doing something else, as well (though most of them teach, usually at a university). The exceptions are those folks in NY, LA, etc.

So, in my experience, "working" composers and musicians are mostly in LA, NY, etc. There are a lot of professionals outside those centers but most get a large portion of their income doing something else - composers seem to work in some type of publishing and performers seem to teach at universities.

Definitely a lot more gigs for performers, though. At least in my experience.

rgames


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## midphase (Jul 28, 2010)

Well...no matter how many times people chant the mantra of the internet allowing people to telecommute from practically anywhere on the planet...there's still no replacement for good old fashioned face time and the psychological security blanket that comes with knowing that the person you're working with is only a car drive away.

The film community especially is rather tight knit and the #1 way that people get work still remains word of mouth. It's difficult to recommend someone who lives in a different time zone or even country.


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## lux (Jul 29, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Wed Jul 28 said:


> Although I am now doing a monthly column for Film Music Magazine, I want to state that although I respect him, Mark and I do not exactly see eye to eye on this. He ignores the fact that many of those "non-LA" based composers are doing crappy work that only works with the picture because LA based music editors MAKE it work and the producers and directors do not care as long as they can get it on the cheap.
> 
> Quite frankly, there are very few "working composers" outside of the major industry areas like LA, NYC, London, Hamburg, Sydney, etc. who have as firm a grasp on how music should work to picture as well as we who have done this for years do.
> 
> But hey, maybe I too am just a "veteran elitist."



maybe just fear.

of course i tend to bet on non-LA composers. Finally. A car drive distance isnt a reason enough why a guy should be better than me.


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## JohnG (Jul 29, 2010)

I don't think that the main element of Mark's piece was geography as such. 

By contrast, I read him as arguing that new, global supply of music definitely, absolutely impacts libraries, and therefore, since libraries have skyrocketed in the last decade, the global "bedroom composer" phenomenon indirectly impacts working composers.

Why more libraries? Why are so many producers willing to accept non-custom music so readily?

1. They don't care (a lot of them);

2. The tools we have sound so much better than they did 15 years ago, so the cheaper alternative is not so howlingly worse as once it was; 

3. They aren't hearing much music that is so good that it makes them hanker for a great composer. 

Musical competition has been savagely curtailed by tv's ever-tighter schedules, which allow few composers time to write really game-changing music for a show nowadays.

As I have written before, I don't think the schedule / burden change is a trivial impact.

Because deadlines are much shorter for many tv shows now, and fees are half (or less) what they were in the 1990s, and almost twice as much music is spotted as once was the case, *composers, especially tv composers, are all under pressure to adopt every shortcut there is.

When everyone is under that kind of pressure, everyone generally comes up with similar answers* -- more repetition, more drums and grooves to fill space, more "cool sounds" instead of polyphony or something more complex that takes more time.

This in turn leads to producers (maybe privately, maybe not so privately) thinking that they can hire just about anyone to write music for shows, as half the stuff sounds alike.

While admitting exceptions exist, when practically nobody gets time to write great stuff, fewer and fewer producers even recognise that great stuff could exist.

The current situation brings to mind the revelation of the Star Wars score in 1976, at a time when many movies were being scored with total rubbish: quasi-pop, dubbed on in mono. Williams reminded everyone what a great big orchestra in the hands of a master could sound like.


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## cc64 (Jul 29, 2010)

lux @ Thu Jul 29 said:


> [
> 
> Finally. A car drive distance isnt a reason enough why a guy should be better than me.



Sadly Luca i think you know it's not often about who's better than whom... not just in LA

It really is about who you know or about who knows of you...

The guys i know from Montreal who did big stuff in Hollywood where always brought into the projects because they had a director/producer friend who got a big gig in LA...And they always rent an apartment/Hotel room in LA for the project's duration.

I think Kays is right, Facetime is important,mostly for films. If it's a series facetime is important at least to start the project after that internet and phone is fine. Didn't Mark Snow work from his studio in Vermont for the X-Files? I did a lot of animation stuff for french companies and we always did the first 1 or 2 episodes with the director present in Montreal. After that, we spoke on the phone from Paris.

Just consider approvals, it's always better to be face to face. Just last week i was finishing up on a MOW. The whole project had been running smoothly, we met with the producers once a week listening to 2 reels at a time. Sometimes the producer would say i don't like this cue...Being in the same room and reading their body language it takes 30 seconds to figure out that it's the percs that are too loud or something like that, you lower the percs and do another pass...Voilà the cut works, no need for rewrites. So back to last week i was late in my writing and told the producers that i would send them a QT of the missing cue later in the day for them to approve. A really simple scene, i tought this would go by like a hot knife through butter...WRONG!!! I had to rewrite it...had we been in the same room i probably would have gotten away with turning down the Brass...Can't do this over the phone or by e-mail.

Just to push my example to the extreme. I was talking with a friend, who owns a film/music mixing studio, about a series he was mixing and told him that i could not believe that the composer got away with such crappy music. He told me that it was quite funny because the composer was constantly making jokes, entertaining everyone and starting great passionate discussions about BMWs and Leisure boats with the producers during the mixes and approvals, so basically he was mixing the thing alone while people were talking without any interruptions ; ) Now try that over the internet! Not that we aspire to be that kind of composer but you get the picture...

If i ever get a gig in Napoli you can be sure that i'll go there in person!

(Sorry for the long post, like you, i'm not a native anglophone...)

Best,

Claude


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## Ashermusic (Jul 29, 2010)

And yet...

I don't think these "bedroom composers' are going to turn out the kind of stellar scoring work that Sean Callery did for "24:" that Marco Beltrami does for "V"; that Michael Levine did for "Cold Case"; Jeff Beal did for "Monk" and Rome", etc. etc.


Yes, there area to lot of producers and directors who simply do not care and will go for something they deem only acceptable because it is cheap and that is the reality. But that does not mean that we who have traditionally done this work do not need to keep fighting the good fight to keep the standards of the craft alive. We have never had much power anyway so we have little to lose.

And Luca, I have heard some of your music, and I don't fear you


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## lux (Jul 29, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Thu Jul 29 said:


> And yet...
> 
> I don't think these "bedroom composers' are going to turn out the kind of stellar scoring work that Sean Callery did for "24:" that Marco Beltrami does for "V"; that Michael Levine did for "Cold Case"; Jeff Beal did for "Monk" and Rome", etc. etc.
> 
> ...



haha...you bet :lol: 

I just think that things are changing. It will give and take and its unavoidable.


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## lux (Jul 29, 2010)

cc64 @ Thu Jul 29 said:


> lux @ Thu Jul 29 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Claude,

if you ever get a gig in Napoli that will mean that your career is on one of its lowest holes. I highly hope for you to not see your face here 

in all honesty, after having spoken with a lot of people i made the idea that no rules are anymore involved. I really cant reach anymore to get two (i say two) comments which are of the same advice regarding actuall market. Not to talk about specific markets like trailers or tv. 

The most evident result to me is that most of the rules and guidelines got definitely broken. A trial by doing is probably the only rule we can take with ourselves today. 

Other the only rule which counts, and that is doing the best fuckin job we can on everything we are involved in.

Luca


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## Ian Dorsch (Jul 29, 2010)

Interesting thread. Thanks for taking the time to write such thoughtful responses!


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## Ashermusic (Jul 29, 2010)

[quote="lux @ Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:05 am"/quote]

The most evident result to me is that most of the rules and guidelines got definitely broken. A trial by doing is probably the only rule we can take with ourselves today. 

Other the only rule which counts, and that is doing the best [email protected]#kin job we can on everything we are involved in.

Luca[/quote]

Well said.


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## David Story (Jul 29, 2010)

It's the producer that gives live music, or unconventional music a chance. 

George Lucas wanted epic Wagnerian music. John Williams updated that brilliantly. Plus Star Wars is a good movie. That combination redefined film music.

Ron Moore wanted a fresh sound, Bear McCreary did that on a TV budget. The show was a hit, and we have the BSG phenomena.

The composer does the work, but the producer has to take the chance, and the audience has to relate. Then things change.

I'm willing to hire live players, and take home less money, to give a show more emotion and a signature sound. But the producer has to be on board, or the director has to fight for music.

This is where education comes in. If you show people the world of great live scoring, they will fall in love. That includes our colleagues in the PGA, even before they arrive.






If they care, they will give you time.


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## poseur (Jul 29, 2010)

hmmm.
just read the article.
some potential truths, there,
and some things that fly straight into the face of my own experiences.

it's probably better for me to simply work, i suppose;
to work more at trying to write something "meaningful",
than to think too much about the current nature-of-the-game.

then again, it may be that the only real way to change things
may be, at least,
to continue to attempt to be active on projects that appeal to us,
and actually _do our work a little differently_
(where "differently" might be personally defined by the individual composer),
maybe?
seek the projects that suit us, i mean.
don't compete for films or series that you might perceive to be
happy using library music,
which always seems as if it's gotta be deeply rooted
--- by necessity ---
in fairly narrow & clearly hyper-defined roles for score.

_*distinguish ourselves*_, in other words.....
*maybe?*

honestly, i dunno.
my sensibilities tell me, though,
that i ain't gonna be "game-changing" the bulk of hollywood routines, myself,
no matter how much nor how well i might analyse its current state-of-play.
in any case:
i'm a working composer, nevermind the myth-bollocks,
please pass the brunello di montalcino.

d


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## poseur (Jul 30, 2010)

am i buzzkilling?
have i deaded yet another nice VI-thread?
i hope not.

d


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## lux (Jul 31, 2010)

poseur @ Fri Jul 30 said:


> am i buzzkilling?
> have i deaded yet another nice VI-thread?
> i hope not.
> 
> d



you did!! now, what about posting on every political related thread here? :mrgreen: >8o


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## poseur (Jul 31, 2010)

lux @ Fri Jul 30 said:


> poseur @ Fri Jul 30 said:
> 
> 
> > am i buzzkilling?
> ...


good thinking, luca!
maybe i could, in fact, serve some useful purpose, here.

d


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## cc64 (Jul 31, 2010)

Why are you whispering d?

As for your existential question, take it in a positive way, maybe once you've spoken on a subject, there's not much left to add.

Nice to have you back btw.

Claude


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## poseur (Aug 3, 2010)

cc64 @ Sat Jul 31 said:


> Why are you whispering d?
> 
> As for your existential question, take it in a positive way, maybe once you've spoken on a subject, there's not much left to add.


no way!
that's unthinkable.
or undrinkable, and certainly sinkable.



cc64 @ Sat Jul 31 said:


> Nice to have you back btw.


thanks much, c.
i am hanging around, here, a bit more.....

d


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## kid-surf (Aug 8, 2010)

Maybe a unique POV, maybe not, but here's my take as someone whose deal calls him a producer [yes, it's a stretch, but hey, that's what the contract says and if this thing 'goe's then it'll be true.]

I don't necessarily disagree with any of your thoughts, John. But...

I wish I could say that I've written a show that calls for "game changing" music. I wish I had created a show where I could say to a composer "THIS show will allow you the type of creative freedom that will inspire you to create greatness" but I, unfortunately, haven't created that show. Instead, I've created a show that is more about the show [theme/characters/world] than that of something which would support "game changing" music. 

I absolutely will fight for a composer [should this thing 'go'] to create a *voice* for the show, I just don't know, even as someone who writes music myself, what that voice IS in musical terms. Generally, yes. Specifically, no. I'm not at all confident that I'd be able to come up with game changing music for this show, and I'm the dude who created it. I believe it would have the strong possibility of feeling forced if someone were to try. If, on the other hand, a composer were able to find a voice organically, cool. I'm totally open to that possibility but as someone who writes music I know that it would not be easy. I know that some shows lend themselves more naturally to supporting game changer music.

I'm not saying I couldn't score this show, in fact I'll want to do some of the cues myself [if it goes], but some really good shows just don't support [sadly] really strong music. Thing is, I couldn't worry about the music while creating the show, I had to put the show first and unfortunately, ironically, the music lost that battle. I'm assuming. 

Th one directive I *would* give is "I don't want the music to sound like every other show, I'd like to hear the music and think, 'nobody else is doing this.' This music sounds like THIS show and no other show." 

...But what does that music sound like? That's a really good question. I wish I had that answer.

*On the other hand: The film I'm writing right now absolutely allows for some really epic music that could in fact be game changing music in the right hands. It's wide open for someone to run with it and do something extremely cool and forward thinking...something completely out of the box in grand fashion.

Nutshell: Some project support game changing music, others don't. Although, I don't feel that idea speaks to the quality of the project.


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## JohnG (Aug 8, 2010)

Hi Kid,

Bearing a personal agenda or even preconceptions into conceiving music for a show almost always weakens one's thinking. So whether that agenda is the secret desire to "emulate" some other piece of which one is enamoured, or a wish to use a project as a bridge to somewhere else -- these kinds of feelings or goals make the writing worse every time, not better.

But there is an exception to the "agenda" or preconceptions, one that makes the music better every time, and it's live players. For me, it's the one element that I find always makes the music sound more personal, more moving, more effective, and more differentiated from the mass of music out there, much of which is produced these days solely with electronics. It brings the viewer closer to a living, breathing character and endows him or her with an imaginative, psychological dimension toward which all the samples on earth may labour mightily but struggle to deliver.

So if anyone asks whether I have preconceived notions about film and tv music, that would probably be the one -- even if it's a couple of soloists. 

The rest of it -- pots and pans -- have used them in a fight scene and it was very punchy.


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## rayinstirling (Aug 8, 2010)

JohnG @ Sun Aug 08 said:


> So if anyone asks whether I have preconceived notions about film and tv music, that would probably be the one -- even if it's a couple of soloists.



and you're only allowing one of them to be a piano player  

As much as I love my virtual instrument toys, it's just so much nicer having real players, even my own playing :oops:


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## Ashermusic (Aug 8, 2010)

kid-surf @ Sun Aug 08 said:


> > only that it feels inspired, emotional



Most of the time, those qualities are best achieved with live players.


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## kid-surf (Aug 8, 2010)

I hear you guys...

Generally, I believe that it's true that live players will lend those human qualities. I can think of many solid examples of that.

Just...I'm not yet convinced that it'd be the right choice for my show, but it might be. I'd really love to make a case for live music in order that the composer is able to stretch in that way, but I ultimately have to think about what's in the best interest of the show. 

One thing I know for sure is that orchestral/piano [especially strings played in any traditional sense] is the wrong way to go with this show, as it would make the show feel dated. It would be tricky to find the right music for this show, as it's got to feel modern and fresh w/o feeling tech-y, gotta feel organic. So, if there's a way to arrive there through live players I would be open to it. I just can't immediately think of what that instrumentation would look like. I can't even think of music that I feel is close. So, it really would be a venture of 'finding' the right music based on the composer reading the script and the 'leave behind' and us sitting down to talk about story themes, motivations, characters and buzz words to really make sure that the composer understands the show from top to bottom, and from there finding the music through trial and error - because I 'get' that the music for this show hasn't been written yet. I don't expect to hear the music in someone's body of work, only clues that they are the right composer/sensibility.

An aside: Likely the best aspect of working with me would be that the composer could send me really rough, unpolished sketches and I would know immediately if I liked where he was going. The composer would know that I "get" the process, that I'm not gonna panic over hearing quick sketches. I believe this would allow them to feel more comfortable in that regard and it would cut down the composer's work load so that most of his time could be spent writing - writing cues we're not going to throw away.


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## drasticmeasures (Aug 8, 2010)

poseur @ Thu Jul 29 said:


> i'm a working composer, nevermind the myth-bollocks,
> please pass the brunello di montalcino.



Love it.
This sentence speaks a thousand words. Multifaceted in an articulate way.
Nicely said!


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## kid-surf (Aug 8, 2010)

Btw - the other aspect is convincing the network that live music is the ONLY way to go. First the composer would have to convince me [another composer/creator of the show/producer and who is fairly opinionated] then comes me convincing the network this is the ONLY choice that makes sense. That's a fairly large obstacle to circumvent. Not only does the music have to blow me away it's got to be the RIGHT music for the show, in a blatantly obvious way. So obvious and great that a network exec would say "Yes, we agree that no other music would work."

If the network didn't go for it the composer would be left to decide how much money he wanted in his pocket. Maybe I would kick in some cash out of my own pocket if I was adamant that it was in fact the best way to go with the music if the network wouldn't pay for it [maybe I'd kick in a $1,000 per episode - you didn't hear that from me] but the rest of it would fall on the composer's own fees. 

In a perfect world every composer wants to write for big orchestra, but it's not always the best choice [money aside] from even a purely creative standpoint.


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## kid-surf (Aug 8, 2010)

Nathan Furst @ Sun Aug 08 said:


> poseur @ Thu Jul 29 said:
> 
> 
> > i'm a working composer, nevermind the myth-bollocks,
> ...



Agreed, I like the way he thinks...

Btw - I thought about you the other day when I saw your father in a commercial. I was like "Wha...? I had no idea he was in that."


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## kid-surf (Aug 8, 2010)

BY MARK NORTHAM: "Your point about free music is good, but we’re our own worst enemy in this regard. Even the current AMCL unionizing group is afraid to put free music on the agenda, and when the previous AMCL organizing group negotiated a deal with the WGA where they would support composers in saying “no more free music”, the “new” AMCL organizing group put the agreement on ice indefinitely as part of their “benefits only” single-minded push. Can you imagine when a (wannabe) labor union isn’t even willing to speak up about its members being asked to work for free as a condition of employment? But that’s how scared and intimidated many composers are today, and until our leaders are willing to actually stand up for not having to work for free (I’m amazed I’m actually writing this!), we will continue to be used and abused."

Thing is, it's not just composers the industry wants free work from. Now that I'm a writer/show creator [on paper, meaning that's what my deal says] I can tell you that I've still been asked to do free work. It comes as "this will help all of us." And maybe it will. But it kinda stings knowing that the particular work I've done doesn't have [in my mind] anything to do with the deal. And in a logical sense, the peeps I'm working with never do any work they aren't paid for. It's always the artist who is doing free work in one regard or another.

Although...I do stand to make far more money than the people I'm working with. It's weird that way. 

And in film you may have gotten a deal for, say, $500,000 against 1Mil and the younger producer you're working with only makes $350,000-$400,000 a year. Here he's your boss but he's making less money than you. And he may ask you to do a pass on the script that isn't covered in your deal, which amounts free work which will "help all of us." So, maybe you just do it in order that the studio doesn't need to get involved again to cut you another deal whereby you're maybe raising red flags [i.e. Studio asks "What's the problem with this writer/script? Maybe we need to go a different direction."] Sometimes it really is in the best interest to just do the free work. And sometimes you're making more than your boss.

This is a strange business that doesn't always make perfect sense.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 9, 2010)

Brian Ralston @ Mon Aug 09 said:


> kid-surf @ Sun Aug 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Not only that, I'm not so interested in working with a composer I don't know. Especially one I don't know who doesn't live in LA.
> ...



Jason sent me a PM assuring me that I was the only one he would seriously consider


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## David Story (Aug 9, 2010)

It helps everyone to have the audience fall in love with a show. Live players do that better than sample libraries. I've seen it happen several times, with as few as two players. Good players, to be sure.

The trick is educating the producer, getting them to see that 1% of the budget makes sense here. Showing them live sound is attractive, has more emotional impact. Some people know this just from seeing what their favorite shows do.

In the end, the call on music is based on how it makes you feel. I get more work showing live music than from showing mock-ups.

Yes, you can score a show with all electronics, or no music at all. Depends on the story and how you want to tell it. 

This is a risky business, place your bets on something you believe in. (IMHO)


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## kid-surf (Aug 9, 2010)

Brian Ralston @ Mon Aug 09 said:


> kid-surf @ Sun Aug 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Not only that, I'm not so interested in working with a composer I don't know. Especially one I don't know who doesn't live in LA.
> ...



Of course it is, thought it wasn't?  o-[][]-o 

Used ta' have Jay's name in there too, until he mispelled my name at which point I had to kick his ass to the curb. :twisted:


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## kid-surf (Aug 9, 2010)

David Story @ Mon Aug 09 said:


> This is a risky business, place your bets on something you believe in. (IMHO)



That's exactly right. After all, ask yourself why THIS project has any more merit than THAT project. The answer is simply that THIS project has more folks who believe in it than THAT project. These films and TV shows are merely ideas until they are no longer ideas but realizations [films/TV shows]. Much like politics and science. 

Can't under estimate the power of suggestion. If I'm convincing enough in my claims that my work is something you must finance, suddenly it becomes that thing that others believe has merit. At a certain point you've reached the "tipping point" whereby there's no stopping the snowball as it throttles down the hill picking up momentum and girth with each rotation.

That's how projects get made. Hard to find that momentum when you are on the fence about your own project. Hollywood buys and makes "PASSIONATE VISION" not screenplays.

...Which, by the way, is part of the reason some of these films suck ass. Some of these dudes are better salesmen than they are closers.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 23, 2011)

John, Claude, poseur et al, thanks for the excellent read!


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## Desire Inspires (Apr 29, 2019)

Has anything changed?


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