# John Williams - Leia's Theme - Mockup



## 0cme (May 22, 2019)

I made a mockup of Leia's Theme from Star Wars... not trying to recreate the original London recording or anything. I love that recording but it's very unique, I was going for more of a straightforward "orchestra in a nice hall" sound. I'd be particularly interested in feedback on how the final mix sounds, mastering feedback, anything that jumps out, etc. Thanks!


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## CT (May 22, 2019)

This is a very sensitive and musical performance! That goes a long way, and I think it's more important than most of the stuff we tend to whinge about on here.

The only such whinging I might do is to suggest a little more reverb, both overall, and between sections to give more depth and perspective. I have very wet tastes, but I think even disregarding that, a tiny bit more "space" would be justified, and pull things together. This sounds more like a pretty flat studio, to me, than a nice hall, as you put it. That might be due to the samples, which don't seem to have much natural space and air in them to begin with.

That's all I could add. This is very satisfying as it is.


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## 0cme (May 22, 2019)

Thanks miket! This is actually one of the heavier reverb mixes I tried. :D It's a fairly close-mic-heavy mix and I don't want to work against that by blurring them up with more reverb, but I'll try playing with the tail/glue reverb a little more and see how I like it.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (May 23, 2019)

One of my favourite tracks... also on my to-do list, but I'm still learning and very far from it.

As the original version is also very dry, I like the mix. I usually like drier (scoring stage) recordings. 

May I ask which instruments were used? I like the french horn at the beginning.


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## NoamL (May 23, 2019)

SM Horn? Impressive. The tremolo strings in the middle are a standout too.

The winds are good but could benefit from a little more verb, and by contrast, less on the solo vln.

Also very well done on the tempo modulation.


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## rlundv (May 23, 2019)

0cme said:


> I made a mockup of Leia's Theme from Star Wars... not trying to recreate the original London recording or anything. I love that recording but it's very unique, I was going for more of a straightforward "orchestra in a nice hall" sound. I'd be particularly interested in feedback on how the final mix sounds, mastering feedback, anything that jumps out, etc. Thanks!




Very well done. I, like you, am a fan of the more close and intimate sound. Too many examples here drowning in reverb, in my honest opinion. Care to elaborate upon how you managed the SM Horn, if that is what you use? What other libraries are in motion here? Thanks for posting, you have got a subscriber.


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## markleake (May 23, 2019)

Wow. This was great. Doesn't matter how close it was to the original, it just sounded right and had the right feels. Congrats on such a nice rendering of what I'm sure is a favourite of many.


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## visiblenoise (May 23, 2019)

Sounds fantastic! Lacks a bit of low end during the climax to me, but that is all the constructive feedback I can give. Well done.


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## marclawsonmusic (May 23, 2019)

Wow great! Very interested to hear what woodwinds you used - they sound very nice.


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## 0cme (May 23, 2019)

Thanks everyone! The solo horn lines are Samplemodeling, horns a2 or a4 (along with everything else) are Hollywood, and there's some Spitfire solo and chamber strings in there too. The SM horn doesn't use SM's internal reflections, there's two parallel sends to 100% wet reverbs, one is just the early portion of an IR of the Hollywood/EW space, the other is a small Valhalla room, very heavily skewed towards its early reflections. Both then go out to the normal reverb chain. (Sort of trying to emulate a multi-mic setup like the rest of the orchestra.)

NoamL: thanks, yes, the tempo map looks... pretty gnarly! :D


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## Pixelpoet1985 (May 23, 2019)

SM horn... wow! How did you do the legato, I always wanted that exact sound, but when I play it, it doesn't sound like it. Especially the transition to the third note of the phrase, after the repetition. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Is it possible to have a midi snippet of the horn phrase?


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## 0cme (May 23, 2019)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> SM horn... wow! How did you do the legato, I always wanted that exact sound, but when I play it, it doesn't sound like it. Especially the transition to the third note of the phrase, after the repetition. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
> 
> Is it possible to have a midi snippet of the horn phrase?



I just looked at it again and Kontakt or my DAW is malfunctioning like crazy, sorry, but there are a few controllers (I think they were 22 and/or 26 by default) that work on the - for lack of a better term - little 'blups' that a horn naturally has on certain pitch changes... if that's what you're after, try those? I think one was called 'transition flutter'.


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## rlundv (May 23, 2019)

0cme said:


> Thanks everyone! The solo horn lines are Samplemodeling, horns a2 or a4 (along with everything else) are Hollywood, and there's some Spitfire solo and chamber strings in there too. The SM horn doesn't use SM's internal reflections, there's two parallel sends to 100% wet reverbs, one is just the early portion of an IR of the Hollywood/EW space, the other is a small Valhalla room, very heavily skewed towards its early reflections. Both then go out to the normal reverb chain. (Sort of trying to emulate a multi-mic setup like the rest of the orchestra.)
> 
> NoamL: thanks, yes, the tempo map looks... pretty gnarly! :D


Really kind of you to share these settings, really appreciate it. I'm new to the Hollywood-series - is the name of the reverb in the horns-patches, the same name as the reverb you have chosen in Spaces? Or did you just choose one with similar settings, like size, reverb-time etc? And what exactly do you mean by "heavily skewed towards its early reflections"? We use almost the exact same setup, so really interesting to hear about your settings. Thanks again


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## 0cme (May 24, 2019)

So... I used IR-1 for the reverb, not Spaces. There's a reverb IR sampled from "Cello Studio 1" in the Waves IR collection - Cello Studios was the earlier name of the building/room that got bought by East West and used to record the Hollywood series. (From what I can gather.) So that's what I used, just the early reflections from that IR.

And for the second question, in Valhalla Room, there's a percentage slider that controls the ratio between early reflections and late reflections. I set that at like... 90% early or so. A lot of other reverbs, convolution and algorithmic alike, have that option though.

(To clarify, the above is about the Samplemodeling horn early reverb setup, not the whole orchestra setup!)


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## amoros (May 27, 2019)

Hi! Sounds pretty good! I would recommend using a bit more reverb because it sounds kind of one dimensional. Also, the more soloistic parts need a bit of programming work (more so the soloistic parts but the orchestra has to move as a whole), the phrases don't seem super connected and some notes really stick out. (Are you extending notes into the next for the legato effect?). Some counter lines get lost and are not terribly present. I would recommend going back and double checking your mod and expression. The expression and mod seem to be fairly stagnant and I feel like it needs a bit more shape and movement. Overall sound good though!


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## lucky909091 (May 27, 2019)

Please, would you be so kind and give us a list of all the software instruments you have used?
It would be interesting to analyze this wonderful track.
Great work!


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## rlundv (May 27, 2019)

lucky909091 said:


> Please, would you be so kind and give us a list of all the software instruments you have used?
> It would be interesting to analyze this wonderful track.
> Great work!


The solo horn lines are Samplemodeling, horns a2 or a4 (along with everything else) are Hollywood, and there's some Spitfire solo and chamber strings in there too.


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## ryans (May 27, 2019)

Beautiful mockup. Despite the many shortcomings of using samples, your musicality and obvious love of the source material shines through... 

Ryan


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## brunocoliveira (May 29, 2019)

It sounds good however I find the woodwinds and horns too loud. A little bit more of reverb and pan would make it sound even greater!


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## Architekton (May 29, 2019)

Amazing work, I only find attack on some string samples a bit weird, like they miss that first bite. Overall, amazing work. John Williams is a genius!


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## rudi (May 29, 2019)

A beautiful piece of music... besides the clarity quality of the audio, the one thing that stands out to me is the emotional and human content of your rendition - that transcends the technical details. 
Thank you.


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## novaburst (May 29, 2019)

such a great build and such a feel made me forget it was samples your using, very skilful work you did, and such a beautiful theme from Star wars loved it.


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## novaburst (May 29, 2019)

rudi said:


> the one thing that stands out to me is the emotional and human content of your rendition - that transcends the technical details



This..........spot on


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## Paul T McGraw (May 29, 2019)

@Ocme very nicely done. A very musical and emotional performance, which is good enough to stand on it's own merits. I'm glad you did not exactly duplicate the original, as you gave us another version that is extremely worthwhile and memorable.


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## 0cme (May 31, 2019)

Thanks for all the kind words and feedback, woah. Here's the latest version, with a somewhat more wet mix and a few changes.



The original had a ton of control curves on practically everything, this doesn't really change them *too *much. In some places, particularly the double reeds, I felt (and still feel) a bit constrained by the 'switching' that takes place in intensity... there's sometimes a narrower window of useful expression than I'd like, beyond which it gets out of character for the phrase. I'll try another library on them someday.

In some places I've shortened the breath/rearticulation or bow-change time on repeated notes, which has a big effect on this piece's main melody. I've also rethought some dynamics and expression in the violins, and made like a million other tiny tweaks...


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## markleake (May 31, 2019)

Still simply wonderful!


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## brunocoliveira (May 31, 2019)

0cme said:


> Thanks for all the kind words and feedback, woah. Here's the latest version, with a somewhat more wet mix and a few changes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Man it really sounds better now! It's more "spacious" however I still feel the instrument levels a little odd in the beginning. Repeating, it still sounds awesome and I think the articulations are really realistic! But I keep imagining myself in the concert hall and even if the violins are in piano dynamic, it should be a little louder. In the opposite hand, the horn should sound a little bit farther and now I perceive it really close to my ears. I imagine like if the horn is close to me and the strings are 10 meters away. 

Repeating, I think you did a really great job! Congratulations! I am just telling you my impressions


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## 0cme (May 31, 2019)

Thanks! I think I feel where you're coming from, no worries.  If it's the horn/violin balance, yeah... that is something I sort of wrestled with. In some of the performances I've listened to the violins recede to practically *nothing*, like the Williams/Skywalker Symphony recording, and I kind of wanted to see how far I could take it to real pianissimo. And I think maybe subconsciously I'm still like, "woah look at what this samplemodeling horn can do, holy crap!" and hesitant to hide it. I could experiment with the early reverb on the horn a bit and see if I can push it back further.


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## Scamper (May 31, 2019)

Sounds great and I especially like the changes for the woodwinds, which seem to sit much better with the rest of the orchestra now.
Can you list the libraries used for it all?


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## 0cme (May 31, 2019)

Scamper said:


> Sounds great and I especially like the changes for the woodwinds, which seem to sit much better with the rest of the orchestra now.
> Can you list the libraries used for it all?



Sure, it's Samplemodeling for the solo horn, Hollywood Orch. for most everything else, Spitfire Solo and Chamber strings for the solo bit at the end, some divisi voices, and general layering on the violins. Oh and the piano is the Granduer, but the piano part is super subtle, it's almost inaudible in some performances I've listened to.

Bonus: here's David Cripps with a little anecdote about recording the horn solo back in the day.


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## jamieboo (Jun 1, 2019)

Beautiful work!


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## 0cme (Jun 1, 2019)

One last mix for now, trying to push the solo horn a little further back and the violins a little more forward for the first main theme.


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## cloudesky (Jun 1, 2019)

One word for your mock up, "Incredible!!!"


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## FreddieM007 (Jul 27, 2019)

0cme said:


> I made a mockup of Leia's Theme from Star Wars... not trying to recreate the original London recording or anything. I love that recording but it's very unique, I was going for more of a straightforward "orchestra in a nice hall" sound. I'd be particularly interested in feedback on how the final mix sounds, mastering feedback, anything that jumps out, etc. Thanks!




Fantastic! Sounds better than most real orchestras. Very musical and emotional interpretation of John Williams' music. Well done.


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## dariusofwest (Jul 28, 2019)

A wonderful realization of this piece. Great use of Hollywood Series on this along with the SampleModeling Horn :D


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