# Equipment insurance?



## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 23, 2017)

I used to have my equipment covered through ASCAP, I think it was called MusicPro. Since then I've let it lapse, and that's probably not a good idea (even though I don't have a lot of hardware anymore).

Is that still the best choice?

What kinds of rates are you paying? I think I was paying about $350 a year.

Thinking about it, that's pretty high as a percentage of the replacement cost. But I did have a lot more hardware then.

Grumble grumble grouse grouse. We pay enough for house and earthquake insurance that they should just cover this stuff.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Oct 23, 2017)

What sort of thing in a composer's studio could be covered by insurance? The only things I have insured (well my parents) are my instruments (a couple of violins and piano/keyboard).


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## synthpunk (Oct 24, 2017)

Talk to your home/renters insurance agent Nick, you might already have some coverage built in or if not they will add it to your policy for not that much. You also get a better rate if for ie you have a security system.

Discount double check  Aflac ....


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## wst3 (Oct 24, 2017)

I spoke with a gentleman at the AES show, Joe Montarello from Arthur Gallagher & Co. He seemed quite knowledgeable about the challenges facing musicians and studio owners. Just the fact that he knew to have a booth there speaks volumes, I think.

Much like auditioning loudspeakers, the trade show floor is not the place to do serious insurance evaluation, but I was impressed enough that I will be following up this week. Among the "features" that impressed me is no "Inland Marine" requirement, gear is insured on or off site, not sure exactly how this works, I'll post more when I get a chance to talk to them in detail. I did ask about equipment replacement, liability, and O&E, they offer all of that, and are willing to work with me to determine if I really need all of them.

Pretty sure he won't mind me sharing his phone number here - 518.533.6807.

If anyone has any comments - positive or negative, please share. There was another insurance company that offered a similar package, but I haven't been able to find them, still looking.


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## JohnG (Oct 24, 2017)

I still use MusicPro too; BMI recommended it originally.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Oct 24, 2017)

Not sure how things work in California, but in Canada I can include it under my home policy.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 24, 2017)

Thanks for the replies.

synthpunk (and Wolfie), homeowners insurance doesn't cover business equipment. Yes, I did check, and it's pretty common knowledge.

Gerhard, even excluding software I'm sure you have a lot invested in your set-up. You have at least one computer system, an audio interface, monitors, controller keyboard... it adds up quickly. And that's just the bare minimum, leaving out instruments, mics, other speakers, outboard equipment, acoustic products...

The golden rule of insurance is to cover what you can't afford to pay out of pocket. I'd be in bad shape if our house burned down, and we live in a fire area that hasn't burned for a long time.


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## chillbot (Oct 24, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I think I was paying about $350 a year.


How much coverage did that get you? $35k? I was paying $1,500 and I think that was for $150k of coverage but I let it lapse as well... we moved out of a fire zone which is pretty much when I lost interest in paying that every year. I should be concerned about theft but logistically it would just be so hard to steal this stuff. But someone smarter than me would likely carry insurance....


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 24, 2017)

I forget how much coverage that got. But I have a project studio, not a real facility like yours.


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## synthpunk (Oct 24, 2017)

Do you have insurance on your golf clubs @chillbot ?


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## gsilbers (Oct 24, 2017)

not a bad deal. its $450 a year for about 35k of equipment replacement. i spend a lot more than that on sample libraries


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## tmhuud (Oct 24, 2017)

Nick, these guys are great. 
http://www.clarionins.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlbfC55aK1wIVSp7ACh1dKgqqEAAYASAAEgL7lPD_BwE

Used them for years. Very competively priced. Pleasant to work with as well.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Oct 24, 2017)

Are you guys working out of your home, or do you have an actual studio space offsite?


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## synthpunk (Oct 24, 2017)

I find in the U.S. it's a mix of the two, in Europe its definitely more offsite from the people I know.



Wolfie2112 said:


> Are you guys working out of your home, or do you have an actual studio space offsite?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 24, 2017)

So it turns out I could get an endorsement to our homeowners insurance after all. I forget what the lady said, but it's not a lot - about $165 for $15K.

That doesn't include everything I own, and no software (that's all backed up), but it would get me back up and running.

I'm a little spooked by what happened in Northern CA. Fortunately our relatives are all okay, but a lot of people were not so lucky.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 24, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Are you guys working out of your home



Yes. But my office is set up as a project studio.


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## wst3 (Oct 25, 2017)

Clarion was the other one I was thinking of, thanks for the reminder!

I don't remember what I was paying when I had the full studio, it was my basement, but I had the separate entrance and yes, I did have folks coming in to record, so insurance was a must have. At the time I had $100k for equipment replacement, plus I think $100k for liability, I don't remember what I had for Errors and Omissions, and I don't think I'd carry that again, it seems like overkill for the work I do now. The really expensive part was the "Inland Marine" rider for equipment that left the studio - I played out and did remote recording, so there was a lot of gear that moved about, and it was a bit of a hassle to keep the list up to date, on top of the expense.

My homeowners also offers a rider for business equipment, and they are checking to see if our umbrella policy would cover liability related to the business. Right now they have priced themselves out of the race for equipment replacement, especially because their inland mobile rider is almost equal to the basic coverage.

I get that musical gear is probably a high risk to insure, especially if you take it out of the studio. But they could make this a lot easier.

I'll report back when I hear back from Clarion and Gallagher.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 25, 2017)

In the '90s I sold a Yamaha 03D mixer (because I'd upgraded to a Panasonic DA7). A nice elderly woman, everyone's grandmother type, came and picked it up for her son. She paid with a cashier's check.

We went on vacation in Europe, and I went to get some money from a cash machine... to find my bank account empty. The cashier's check was bogus.

I filed a claim against the equipment insurance.

After six months of bureaucratic runaround, an investigator called to ask how I happened to know a suspiciously relevant detail of the coverage. Well, it was in the cover letter that came with my policy!

First my faith in humanity took a beating, then I had to convince these people that I don't defraud insurance companies for a living. They did finally pay, but what a miserable experience.

Shortly after that a clause specifically excluding losses incurred during a sale appeared, and I'd imagine it's still there.

Coincidence? Or is that The Batzdorf Clause?


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## jonathanparham (Oct 25, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I used to have my equipment covered through ASCAP, I think it was called MusicPro. Since then I've let it lapse, and that's probably not a good idea (even though I don't have a lot of hardware anymore).
> 
> This is what I'm using. Includes the computers and my wife's cello


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## JohnG (Oct 25, 2017)

I'm pretty sure my homeowners' policy excludes any equipment used "professionally," or at least has a very high deductible on it. I checked into it years ago -- probably should look again. It's crazy to pay hundreds a year for such a small amount of coverage.


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## chimuelo (Oct 25, 2017)

Ive used homeowners for years.
Lloyd’s Of London for contracted agreements including travel.

Nick that DA7 was a great mixer.


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## synthpunk (Oct 25, 2017)

Insurance companies love bundling now. 



JohnG said:


> I'm pretty sure my homeowners' policy excludes any equipment used "professionally," or at least has a very high deductible on it. I checked into it years ago -- probably should look again. It's crazy to pay hundreds a year for such a small amount of coverage.


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## Kyle Preston (Oct 25, 2017)

I was lucky to get military insurance through USAA. They used to have civilian invites (not sure what their current policy is) but they’ve been great. My plan is comparable to your ASCAP one Nick. (Think my annual is a bit higher actually). Might be worth signing up for updates if/when they send civilian invites.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 25, 2017)

JohnG said:


> I'm pretty sure my homeowners' policy excludes any equipment used "professionally



Homeowners insurance certainly used to exclude it, but I was surprised when I asked our agent (Farmers). They're adding a special rider for my business equipment.

I assume it's $1K deductible just like the rest of the policy, but I'm really only concerned about fire.

Well, it's good to have the insurance anyway, since you don't have a choice to unbundle the following kind of loss from your homeowners insurance:

We had my daughter's backpack smash-and-grabbed from my car while eating dinner on a road trip a couple of Christmases ago. She was still in college then, and she brought home everything - iPad, computer, glasses, good headphones, medication... and even with the deductible, it paid a few thousand.

If I remember right the car window was covered by car insurance. That has a lower deductible than regular losses.


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## JohnG (Oct 25, 2017)

I wrote my insurance agent. Good suggestions guys.


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## tmhuud (Oct 25, 2017)

This was a good reminder for me Nick to make sure to remove two 4408 JBL monitors from my insurance.


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## John Zuker (Oct 25, 2017)

Hey Nick,

I still have the music eq. insurance policy that I originally got through the musician's union (which is now Mercer Consumer). The rate seems decent, but I've had it for years, and I haven't really compared it to anything else that's out there. (I probably need to review it again soon, and make sure that I'm not insuring my old Roland S760s for 5k each.)


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## JohnG (Oct 25, 2017)

I checked and you guys are on to something; the homeowner rider would be substantially cheaper, though the deductible would be much higher than the $100 per loss that MusicPro offers. 

Adding a rider to my existing insurance does make it possible to keep the insurance in one place and at a lower cost, but that deductible is probably a major contributor to the higher cost of MusicPro.

Also, it's hard to know exactly what would happen when you make a claim for a lot of stuff they don't understand at the regular insurance company, or what would happen if all your stuff was stolen while you were heading to a gig in Nevada.

MusicPro covers gear even if you are a traveling musician, apparently, and even covers "accidental breakage," although I haven't investigated what that actually means; it says on their website:

*Everything on your itemized list is covered wherever it is located, anywhere in the world, for losses such as:*

Fire
Vandalism
Theft

Accidental breakage
Water / flood damage
Earthquake damage


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 26, 2017)

As far as stuff they don't understand, I'm making an inventory list and taking pictures. Actually, it occurs to me that I should also walk around the house and take pictures, maybe video, of everything to stick on Dropbox.

But it really depends on what you need.

It's true that earthquake damage to the music equipment isn't included in the homeowners policy, nor is accidental breakage (I'm surprised MusicPro covers that for everything; smashed cello, yes, but dropped laptop?). However, earthquakes aren't likely to wipe everything out, just some things, and I'm only worried about near-total loss.

I'm not a traveling musician, but the smash-and-grab claim I wrote about makes me think you are covered if you bring equipment with you. However, I'm unlikely to go anywhere with more than I could replace out of pocket. The $1K deductible is fine for me.

Hopefully we won't need our insurance and it'll all be moot anyway!


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## ThePrioryStudio (Oct 27, 2017)

I used to be with Music Pro for years, when I toured all our gear was insured through those guys, they had great worldwide cover. I carried it on when I set up my composing room but since I didn't really tour anymore, I switched to Hiscox. They do a more 'business' type agreement which you can insure a separate amount that goes off-site concurrently with the normal schedule.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 27, 2017)

"Hiscox Ltd. is a Bermuda-incorporated insurance provider, listed on the London Stock Exchange. An underwriter at Lloyd's of London, the company largely specialises in niche areas of the market, offering property and casualty insurance aimed at companies and high-net-worth individuals, as well as cover against such risks as hacking, kidnapping and satellite damage."



ThePrioryStudio said:


> They do a more 'business' type agreement which you can insure a separate amount that goes off-site concurrently with the normal schedule



I'm afraid I don't quite follow that. Do you just mean it's what American insurance companies call a "rider," which is a separate part of a larger policy?


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## ThePrioryStudio (Oct 27, 2017)

Essentially it's business contents insurance. One policy which I'm insured up to £100k, I then have an add on which I can set the value off, which goes out of the building. 'They do a more 'business' type agreement' as in, Music Pro was arranged not via my Ltd company.


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## Vischebaste (Oct 27, 2017)

What are people's thoughts on the necessity of insuring sample libraries (assuming that they're not backed up outside the studio)? In the event of some kind of catastrophe, I guess that without insurance it would still be theoretically possible to go back to all of the devs and request download codes again, but insurance feels as though it can take some of the uncertainty out of that, in case some of them refuse. Currently, I have every sample library named and insured separately on my insurance docs, but maybe this is a bit over cautious and I'm throwing away my cash?


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## ThePrioryStudio (Oct 27, 2017)

Vischebaste said:


> I have every sample library named and insured separately on my insurance docs, but maybe this is a bit over cautious and I'm throwing away my cash?



I'm not familiar with all the devs download protocol but certainly lots of them operate their downloads online, so presumably you have accounts with them where you can just re-download them, without the need of a new license code?

But, off-site back-ups of each library would be prudent. Ok, that means a few drives sitting on a shelf but might save your bacon one day. Then if the un-thinkable happens, you have it close. As far as Kontakt presets go, I sync a folder online which, as long as I have the library I can re-link the samples if I loose a studio copy of a preset.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 27, 2017)

Vischebaste:



> What are people's thoughts on the necessity of insuring sample libraries (assuming that they're not backed up outside the studio)?



My thought is not to follow that assumption. I have triple backups, two inside the studio and one I keep in my car.

Ideally there would be a realistically-priced cloud backup, but it's too freaking expensive for 4TB of data.


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## synthpunk (Oct 27, 2017)

and too slow.

I keep redundant mirrored Raid 1 backup and a offsite backup of all samples and files.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> Vischebaste:
> 
> Ideally there would be a realistically-priced cloud backup, but it's too freaking expensive for 4TB of data.


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## tmhuud (Oct 27, 2017)

I have the replacement value of Sample Libraries insured.


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## Vischebaste (Oct 27, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Vischebaste:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nick, is it just your libraries you keep in your car? I'd be very jumpy about keeping anything project related in my car.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 27, 2017)

It's a full bootable backup of my entire system in a working state. I need to keep it offsite, and I need to be able to update it. My car was the best solution I could come up with.


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## synthpunk (Oct 27, 2017)

Nick's car









Nick Batzdorf said:


> It's a full bootable backup of my entire system in a working state. I need to keep it offsite, and I need to be able to update it. My car was the best solution I could come up with.


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## Kyle Preston (Oct 27, 2017)

Wasn’t there a cloud backup system I read about a few years ago, Gobbler I think it was called?


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## synthpunk (Oct 27, 2017)

Backblaze. To slow for me though.


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## Kyle Preston (Oct 27, 2017)

Hmm, bummer that they’re slow, was actually thinking of signing up with them.

I found the link for Gobbler, but I misremembered their schtick. It seems they’re not a great option for an everything backup, just DAW backup. Would be cheaper just to max out a Dropbox account.


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## synthpunk (Oct 28, 2017)

Perhaps once your initial backup is done then it's quicker ? You can also save your Logic projects directly from Logic to Gobler.



Kyle Preston said:


> Hmm, bummer that they’re slow, was actually thinking of signing up with them.
> 
> I found the link for Gobbler, but I misremembered their schtick. It seems they’re not a great option for an everything backup, just DAW backup. Would be cheaper just to max out a Dropbox account.


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## JohnG (Oct 28, 2017)

I back up to drives that I keep in a safe deposit box at a bank. I rotate them every month or so.

But on the subject of insurance, the key for me probably are two things:

1. The tiny deductible from MusicPro ($100) compared with the substantial one from the homeowners' insurance rider; and

2. The disadvantage that with MusicPro you have to list explicitly all your gear. I am sure I haven't.

I think I will probably switch to the homeowners' policy because:

a. Most likely a serious loss would be because of fire or a major burglary, in which case the deductible is not an issue; and

b. I am never going to keep an accurate, up to date record of every cable, mic stand, disk drive, sound card, etc. that I own.


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## ThePrioryStudio (Oct 28, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Perhaps once your initial backup is done then it's quicker ? You can also save your Logic projects directly from Logic to Gobler.



Yep, the first one is the worst. I spose now with decent fibre internet connections it's not quite as bad as it used to be.
Pro Tools and Logic sessions easily go to Gobbler, but who came up with that name? >)


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## ThePrioryStudio (Oct 28, 2017)

Back up on drives is a decent option but back ups onto LTO tape is far far safer and cheaper per Gb. I've been in studios when an assistant has taken a backup off a shelf and it just either doesn't power up or sits there and clicks. If you want failsafe backup media, LTO tape is the way to go.


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## Kyle Preston (Oct 28, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> You can also save your Logic projects directly from Logic to Gobler



That part is appealing - not having to zip Logic files would be a nice perk.


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## synthpunk (Oct 28, 2017)

yah, It's free and integrated, thats appealing as well.



Kyle Preston said:


> That part is appealing - not having to zip Logic files would be a nice perk.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 28, 2017)

JohnG said:


> Most likely a serious loss would be because of fire or a major burglary, in which case the deductible is not an issue



That's the thing. Losing $1000 wouldn't be fun, but again, I'm only interested in covering what I couldn't afford to pay - as in $15,000 to get back up and running. Assuming my guess about how much MusicPro costs, it's not worth $200 a year to protect against $900 more deductible.

ThePrioryStudio, tape backups... well, a high-volume commercial studio is very different from a low-volume project studio like mine. Costs per GB are irrelevant when 4TB drives are $100 each and that's all you need. I'm doing MIDI + overdubs, radio reports, interviews - that doesn't require a lot of storage, and I use the free Dropbox for extra insurance.

Also, I'm skeptical about LTB being as failsafe as you say. I've had tape fail too, plus the proprietary formats make me uneasy. Drives certainly fail too, but with three rotating backups I'm okay.

But again, we don't all need the same thing, which is why there are different options.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 28, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Backblaze



That looks interesting. I could have it back up the dual-partition Time Machine/samples drive connected to my Airport Extreme.

Hmm...

Update: oh. Yah, same problem as when I checked before: it doesn't back up programs or the system itself, just data it deems important. That's completely stupid and useless.


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## ThePrioryStudio (Oct 28, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> ThePrioryStudio, tape backups... well, a high-volume commercial studio is very different from a low-volume project studio like mine. Costs per GB are irrelevant when 4TB drives are $100 each and that's all you need. I'm doing MIDI + overdubs, radio reports, interviews - that doesn't require a lot of storage, and I use the free Dropbox for extra insurance.
> 
> Also, I'm skeptical about LTB being as failsafe as you say. I've had tape fail too, plus the proprietary formats make me uneasy. Drives certainly fail too, but with three rotating backups I'm okay.
> 
> But again, we don't all need the same thing, which is why there are different options.



Oh yeah, of course. There are different ways and whatever fits is always the best option. I've been in bigger commercials suites where tape robots back up audio as well as video and everything is super safe, but I've also been on big productions where BIG clients with $millions bring in un-raided hard drives with no back up. 

I guess 'failsafe' isn't the best word, more reliable? lets go with that. LTO can also be HFS+ so it's not alway proprietary


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 28, 2017)

LTO can be HFS+? I didn't know that.

My experience with it has been mainly with Retrospect, which is proprietary. Or was 87.3 years ago.

Also, I used cassette storage for MIDI sequences when my Yamaha QX5 hardware sequencer got full. The cassette broke... and amazingly I only lost one cue that I'd already mixed.  I thought six weeks of very hard work was gone!


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## hstone (Oct 28, 2017)

Hey guys, I might be able to offer a little insight about insuring your equipment if anyone has any questions. It sounds like most of you have already dealt with equipment insurance in one form or another, but I am an underwriter at Erie Insurance (Fortune 500 company) for both personal and commercial lines and might be able to provide some useful advice for anyone curious about various coverage options and loss exposures.


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## hstone (Oct 28, 2017)

Although each insurer is a little different, there is very little overall variation in policy language, especially for personal lines.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 29, 2017)

Coolio. I don't have any questions, but do you have any comments about what you've read so far?


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## hstone (Oct 29, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Coolio. I don't have any questions, but do you have any comments about what you've read so far?


Certainly! First off, it’s very important to let your agent know if you’re using the equipment to make money or not. Not as hit to anyone’s pride, of course, but because if you legitimately use your equipment to make money then you either need to look into a commercial policy or putting a home business endorsement on your homeowners policy. The last thing you want is to give an insurer a reason to deny your claim!

After considering use, you might want to think about scheduling individual pieces of equipment that are worth $4K+, and then you can cover lower-valued equipment and accessories on a blanket basis, but there will usually be a cap on the amount of blanket coverage depending on the total value of scheduled equipment. For this type of coverage, you might need what is called an inland marine policy.

Music equipment is a pretty common thing to insure, and you should be able get this coverage through your current insurer. It will likely be cheaper than going through a specialty insurer bc of your multi-policy discount. You’re also likely to get discounts based on home security or business location safety features. One major benefit of an inland marine policy is that you will be covered for “mysterious disappearances”, unlike in your homeowners, which either includes named or open perils. I can speak more to this in a separate post if you’re interested. Inland marine policies also provide coverage anywhere in the world. Personal property under your homeowners is usually covered worldwide if the insured is temporarily away, but doesn’t offer the same level of protection. Plus, filing a claim on your homeowners isn’t something you should do lightly, because people keep meticulous track of claims, and you’re better off having a separate policy for the equipment you can file a claim on. 

One thing to keep in mind, however, is that an underwriter is going to be very interested in how you use that equipment. Do you travel with it frequently so that it is more likely to be subject to rough treatment from transportation and more susceptible to theft? 
If so, they might try to limit some coverages.

Anyways, I hope this helps and you can always reach out if you have any other questions!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 29, 2017)

Okay, what are mysterious disappearances?


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## Nathanael Iversen (Oct 29, 2017)

Can you comment on what differences would exist between an inland marine policy and specialized musician insurance like MusicPro? Are there tradeoffs we should know about?


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## hstone (Oct 29, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Okay, what are mysterious disappearances?


Mysterious disappearance essentially means that if you lose your equipment it will be covered. This is also typically used for things like diamond rings. Theft is usually covered, but loss otherwise is not.

Any insurer will always have an exclusion for anything intentional, because an occurrence needs to be fortuitous, or by chance. 

It’s really important to read and understand the policy language to know what coverage you’re getting, and if your agent doesn’t know then they should call the underwriter so they can relay the info to you. It is actually quite complicated to take a scenario and determine if there is coverage, so I’d advise to think of specific scenarios you might face and ask your agent about them.


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## hstone (Oct 29, 2017)

Nathanael Iversen said:


> Can you comment on what differences would exist between an inland marine policy and specialized musician insurance like MusicPro? Are there tradeoffs we should know about?


I would have to look into their offerings to give you a good answer, but there are a few things I can think of off the top of my head.

First, since they are a specialty insurer they are likely to have coverages specifically tailored to a musician. It’s their niche market. It might be more expensive than an inland marine policy, though, since it’s likely you’ll only have that singular line of insurance with them and you might be paying for more service than you need. 

Second, if you do require a commercial policy due to business use, commercial rates are extremely easy to negotiate for credits, or discounts. The more security precautions in place (alarms, building construction, proximity to fire stations and hydrants) the better the discount. I’m not sure if this is the case for a specialty insurer.

Keep in mind these are rather generic reasons and I don’t want to slight a specialty insurer because they might have extremely good service and coverage, but I will say I it wouldn’t be difficult to get the coverage you need (save for a high-end, very expensive studio with hundreds of thousands worth of specialty equipment) from a regular insurer.


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## JohnG (Oct 29, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> it's not worth $200 a year to protect against $900 more deductible



It's a $10,000 deductible, so the difference is actually $9,900. 

But the thing is, if your house burns enough (or is burgled enough) to cause that level of damage to the studio, other damage is likely to be very high too. You are going to hit the deductible and it's a matter of taste whether you attribute that first $10k you have to pay to your studio or to the home, I guess. One might be deductible, one might add to the basis (if you own the house), so there is a tax question as well, but whatevah


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 30, 2017)

John, you have a $10K deductible for your house insurance? Ours is $1K for each covered loss, and that includes the equipment extension. The earthquake insurance is 15%, but what can you do.

Now, I also worry that the cost of rebuilding after a fire would be about $25K higher than their estimate, but again - what can you do.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 30, 2017)

hstone said:


> It is actually quite complicated to take a scenario and determine if there is coverage, so I’d advise to think of specific scenarios you might face and ask your agent about them



Since I don't take a lot of equipment with me anywhere, I can only envision two likely scenarios: fire and/or earthquake, and theft/robbery. We're not covered for flooding, but it's pretty low on the list of probabilities here.

Am I missing anything obvious?


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## JohnG (Oct 30, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> John, you have a $10K deductible for your house insurance?



you save a ton on insurance by accepting a higher deductible


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## JohnG (Oct 30, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Am I missing anything obvious?



mold, infestation (by musicians, conceivably)


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