# OT Arks and Inspire Series on Sale at NI



## jneebz (Apr 28, 2022)

ORCHESTRAL TOOLS OFFER 2022


Save up to 63% on expressive cinematic scoring instruments from Orchestral Tools.




www.native-instruments.com





Well, damn says my wallet.


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## Markrs (Apr 28, 2022)

Nice that these are the Kontakt versions which you can then cheaply “upgrade” to the Sine versions which you can do the other way around. I do however wonder if this will be the last time these are on sale as Kontakt versions as OT use up the Kontakt licenses that they will have paid for?


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## Cdnalsi (Apr 28, 2022)

Wow those are some prices alright, even with the discount! I'm still waiting for a Time Micro/Macro sale, and the native Apple Silicon version of SINE before I really dive deeper into OT's stuff.

(I know the Inspire series is somewhat limited with the ensemble patches and everything (and again those prices oof), but) what are people's opinions here on the ARKs?


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## FrozenIcicle (Apr 28, 2022)

Love the Arks, glad I bought all four in the Sine bundle.

Inspire series are just elements of the berlin series, right? No need to buy if I have the berlin series?

Also wish JXL and time/macro/tallin went on sale too


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## Zanshin (Apr 28, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> ... and the native Apple Silicon version of SINE before I really dive deeper into OT's stuff.



Apple M1 compatibility: SINEplayer is now natively supported on Apple's M1 architecture.
From https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/get-sine "What's new?"


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## davidson (Apr 28, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Apple M1 compatibility: SINEplayer is now natively supported on Apple's M1 architecture.
> From https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/get-sine "What's new?"


How the hell do you check for updates with Sine? Is it a case of checking you v number and cross referencing on the site?


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## Zanshin (Apr 28, 2022)

davidson said:


> How the hell do you check for updates with Sine? Is it a case of checking you v number and cross referencing on the site?


Yeah I think it's a manual process.


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## davidson (Apr 28, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Yeah I think it's a manual process.


Cheers, I thought I was missing something. Let me go add that to my 'things I hate about Sine' list 

Thanks for bringing the update to my attention btw else I'd never have known about it.


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## Sunny Schramm (Apr 28, 2022)

They NEED a bundle for ARK 2+4 ... I own 1+3 😭


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## LudovicVDP (Apr 28, 2022)

Damn... 
AGAIN a nice opportunity to buy Ark 1 that I'll have to pass and be angry about...


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## MartinH. (Apr 28, 2022)

Ouch... Ark 3 Kontakt version for 148 *less *than I paid for it in the christmas sale. Haven't seriously used it once since then because of all the frustrating inconsistencies and bugs in it. This sale isn't helping with my buyers remorse...:(




LudovicVDP said:


> Damn...
> AGAIN a nice opportunity to buy Ark 1 that I'll have to pass and be angry about...


I think if we still see NI sales of those abandoned Kontakt libs, then NI might have licensed the right to do this on their own and I think they will probably do this again.


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## Mike Fox (Apr 28, 2022)

Always been curious about the Inspire libraries. How’s that single mic position working for those who have it?


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## jneebz (Apr 28, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Haven't seriously used it once since then because of all the frustrating inconsistencies and bugs in it.


Interesting, can you elaborate?


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## Crowe (Apr 28, 2022)

...Oh.


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## Evans (Apr 28, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> I'm still waiting for a Time Micro/Macro sale


Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.


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## davidson (Apr 28, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Always been curious about the Inspire libraries. How’s that single mic position working for those who have it?


Too wet IMO. Enough for me to have still not used them. They might be ok if the music you make calls for more classical sounding mixes. 

I'd pay extra for a closer mic mix @OrchestralTools kinda like an inspire pro series


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## SandChannel (Apr 28, 2022)

If you wanted to go with the Sine player, you would have to pay another 10% per library which would bring up the cost closer to 1400 bucks. At that price, you might as well buy it from Orchestral Tools and get the bundle that includes ARK 5. Just thinking aloud.


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## axb312 (Apr 28, 2022)

davidson said:


> Too wet IMO. Enough for me to have still not used them. They might be ok if the music you make calls for more classical sounding mixes.
> 
> I'd pay extra for a closer mic mix @OrchestralTools kinda like an inspire pro series


The prices we're paying already aren't enough?


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## davidson (Apr 28, 2022)

axb312 said:


> The prices we're paying already aren't enough?


True @OrchestralTools I'd like the extra mix for free please.


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## RonV (Apr 28, 2022)

Inspire is a sketching library with a small footprint. The biggest limit is probably the limited dynamics. Most patches have only p and ff or p and f layers. And many patches have only legato, sustain, and staccato articulations. But folks have made some nice pieces with it and it runs on a modest laptop or similar.


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## Mike Fox (Apr 28, 2022)

davidson said:


> Too wet IMO. Enough for me to have still not used them. They might be ok if the music you make calls for more classical sounding mixes.
> 
> I'd pay extra for a closer mic mix @OrchestralTools kinda like an inspire pro series


Thanks! A definite pass for me then.


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## Crowe (Apr 28, 2022)

@Marsen Just found one of your posts indicating you were waiting for this.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Apr 28, 2022)

If anyone is interested, I made a short video about how Ark 1 compares to AI Jaeger  



I'm also taking video requests - I have Ark 1, 2 and 3. If anyone has any questions about them, feel free to ask and I'll try to cover them.


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## tmhuud (Apr 28, 2022)

My 2 pennys. Buy up all the Native Instruments versions.


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## Getsumen (Apr 28, 2022)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Love the Arks, glad I bought all four in the Sine bundle.
> 
> Inspire series are just elements of the berlin series, right? No need to buy if I have the berlin series?
> 
> Also wish JXL and time/macro/tallin went on sale too


They contain a few aspects from the arks, I.E. the organ and choirs from MA2 and maybe a few other minor things here and there, but for the large part yes it's just Berlin Series. (And considering you have the arks as well there is nothing new in Inspire)


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## aileero (Apr 28, 2022)

What are your guys' opinions on ark 4? I like the smaller sections but I haven't heard too much about it.


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## Ian Dorsch (Apr 28, 2022)

jneebz said:


> Interesting, can you elaborate?


I don't know about Martin's experience but there are issues with the tempo synced patterns in the Kontakt version of MA3 drifting out of sync with the DAW tempo. I contacted OT and was told that it's a known issue. My assumption is that it's been fixed in the Sine version, although I haven't had a chance to test it yet - as far as I'm aware, there's been no update to the Kontakt version since my exchange with OT support back in August of 2020 (but I'd love to discover that I'm wrong about that). I love so much about the library, and there's a lot of value there outside of the tempo synced patterns - but it'd be awesome if the tempo synced patterns worked correctly. I have a few other libs that address that niche but none of them sound as aggressive and downright mean as MA3's.


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## jneebz (Apr 28, 2022)

tmhuud said:


> My 2 pennys. Buy up all the Native Instruments versions.


Do you know if there are bug fixes/enhancements in the SINE version?


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## jneebz (Apr 28, 2022)

Ian Dorsch said:


> I don't know about Martin's experience but there are issues with the tempo synced patterns in the Kontakt version of MA3 drifting out of sync with the DAW tempo. I contacted OT and was told that it's a known issue. My assumption is that it's been fixed in the Sine version, although I haven't had a chance to test it yet - as far as I'm aware, there's been no update to the Kontakt version since my exchange with OT support back in August of 2020 (but I'd love to discover that I'm wrong about that). I love so much about the library, and there's a lot of value there outside of the tempo synced patterns - but it'd be awesome if the tempo synced patterns worked correctly. I have a few other libs that address that niche but none of them sound as aggressive and downright mean as MA3's.


Thank you!


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## MartinH. (Apr 28, 2022)

jneebz said:


> Interesting, can you elaborate?







__





Orchestral Tools "End of an Era" speculation thread


The Tallinn are in the high 700's low 800's. The biggest problem I have is which library does violin 1 315 come from. Because this is the 3rd violin library I've found, and I haven't gone through them all. Ark 2 started at 383 to 423. I should probably write this all down. :) This is what...




vi-control.net


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## jneebz (Apr 28, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!


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## muziksculp (Apr 28, 2022)

Are these Kontakt versions downloaded via Native Access ? 

Also, anyone know how I can Re-Install a Kontakt version that I deleted of an OT SINE Library ? 

Thanks.


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## Digivolt (Apr 28, 2022)

Cory did a good comparison for all 4


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## Marsen (Apr 28, 2022)

Crowe said:


> @Marsen Just found one of your posts indicating you were waiting for this.


Thanks for the heads up Crowe, appreciate it.
I was weak and finished my Ark Bundle at christmas.

Now, I have Ark 1+2 Sine only.
Shall I still buy the 1+2 Kontakt bundle.
What would you call that, mad? Ridiculous?


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## DivingInSpace (Apr 28, 2022)

Ian Dorsch said:


> I don't know about Martin's experience but there are issues with the tempo synced patterns in the Kontakt version of MA3 drifting out of sync with the DAW tempo.


What a shame, that was honestly the one i was most interested in.


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## Axl (Apr 28, 2022)

Is it possible to resell the Kontakt versions that you buy from NI?


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## DivingInSpace (Apr 28, 2022)

Axl said:


> Is it possible to resell the Kontakt versions that you buy from NI?


No.


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## Crowe (Apr 28, 2022)

Marsen said:


> Thanks for the heads up Crowe, appreciate it.
> I was weak and finished my Ark Bundle at christmas.
> 
> Now, I have Ark 1+2 Sine only.
> ...


I'd saying buying the Sine version was mad. It's why I kinda have to buy the 3+4 set this time. I don't think the Kontakt version will be available for much longer.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 28, 2022)

The best part of this sale is you don’t have to use SINE.


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## rnb_2 (Apr 28, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Apple M1 compatibility: SINEplayer is now natively supported on Apple's M1 architecture.
> From https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/get-sine "What's new?"


I totally missed this in the process of trying to get Formby to download - thanks for the heads-up!


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## Trash Panda (Apr 28, 2022)

Love the sound of the Arks, but they are still hilariously overpriced.


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## Zanshin (Apr 28, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> I totally missed this in the process of trying to get Formby to download.


I'm a PC guy, but even I thought it was notable. I thought "why is there not rejoicing in the streets?!". Other companies are yelling it out while OT quietly slips it under the door.


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## Marsen (Apr 28, 2022)

Crowe said:


> I'd saying buying the Sine version was mad. It's why I kinda have to buy the 3+4 set this time. I don't think the Kontakt version will be available for much longer.


I really believed at that time (like quiet some others), another sale on the kontakt versions were very unlikely.
And now this.

Then again, I got more into the sine player, which I find a bit better now (but still prefer kontakt).
We will see, how stable the new 1.09 version will be.


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## Zanshin (Apr 28, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Love the sound of the Arks, but they are still hilariously overpriced.


Yeah, and I think they are basically a max of 2 dynamic layers across the board (although even with just two layers they sound pretty good).


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## José Herring (Apr 28, 2022)

davidson said:


> How the hell do you check for updates with Sine? Is it a case of checking you v number and cross referencing on the site?


You don't. Sine will let you know if you're worthy of an update.
I honestly missed like the last update wondering if it would give me the option then I realized the truth. You have to beg it for permission and find the updates yourself. So 2000's.....


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## dunamisstudio (Apr 28, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> If anyone is interested, I made a short video about how Ark 1 compares to AI Jaeger
> 
> I'm also taking video requests - I have Ark 1, 2 and 3. If anyone has any questions about them, feel free to ask and I'll try to cover them.


If you got anything to compare 2 and 3 to that would be nice.


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## dunamisstudio (Apr 28, 2022)

Another OT sale where I'm flat broke. But as I looked through them I honestly ask do I even need them. They will duplicate most of what I have.


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## Justin L. Franks (Apr 28, 2022)

What is the crossgrade pricing for going from the Kontakt versions of the Arks to the Sine versions?


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## Zanshin (Apr 28, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> What is the crossgrade pricing for going from the Kontakt versions of the Arks to the Sine versions?


10% of price on OT's site.

Edit: Source https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/418-metropolis-ark-1-4-sineplayer-crossgrades


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## Flyo (Apr 28, 2022)

Crazy I paid arks 1 and 2, 5 years ago (and I want 3&4) at the same price via Native, it was expensive but in 2022 I cannot understand the tag price for it at sale, of course the material is top notch, maybe that’s why, but🙄


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## Laurin Lenschow (Apr 28, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> If you got anything to compare 2 and 3 to that would be nice.


As in doing dedicated videos for both Ark 2 and Ark 3, comparing them to similar libraries?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 28, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> What is the crossgrade pricing for going from the Kontakt versions of the Arks to the Sine versions?


I think these sales only make sense if you know you are not going to upgrade to the SINE versions. Otherwise, start stacking on another 50-60 euros onto the price for each library you have. Unfortunate for OT not to offer free crossgrades given NI is still selling these libraries.


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## dunamisstudio (Apr 28, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> As in doing dedicated videos for both Ark 2 and Ark 3, comparing them to similar libraries?


Compare them to similar libraries like you did with 1 and Jaeger.


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## emilio_n (Apr 28, 2022)

In my case, for the Arks is better to complete my Sine collection (I have MA1 and MA2 already) combining with the EDU discount.
I am more or less Ok with Sine. I wish that OT fix the problems faster and add new functionalities, but at this point, I think the OT Kontakt libraries are legacy products. If they don't update Sine ports frequently, imagine the old Kontakt versions...


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## Casiquire (Apr 28, 2022)

For me, i don't really need 3 or 5 and I'm still working with Kontakt, so this sale makes a lot of sense


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## jl303 (Apr 28, 2022)

I have All albeons, Symphobia 1-3, and BBC Pro. Would Metropolis Ark 1-4 add/replace (upgrade) anything?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 28, 2022)

Great overview (and some nice demos)



I wonder if you already have Berlin Series and JXL Brass, what the Arks truly bring (as an entire library) - given they are recorded in the same type of way in the same space. Perhaps Ark 3 + 4 are more unique vs. Ark 1 + 2. Certainly choosing individual instruments, like the choirs or certain non-traditional percussion, might be less duplicative.


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## Rudianos (Apr 28, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Great overview (and some nice demos)
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if you already have Berlin Series and JXL Brass, what the Arks truly bring (as an entire library) - given they are recorded in the same type of way in the same space. Perhaps Ark 3 + 4 are more unique vs. Ark 1 + 2. Certainly choosing individual instruments, like the choirs or certain non-traditional percussion, might be less duplicative.



So much passion in the strings - really aggressive. Much more than Berlin Strings or Symphonic. Big bold and no questions. Not so classical, so big. Cannot comment on the Brass versus JXL. Choirs and a perk, the ensemble of unique instruments.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 28, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> So much passion in the strings - really aggressive. Much more than Berlin Strings or Symphonic. Big bold and no questions. Not so classical, so big. Cannot comment on the Brass versus JXL. Choirs and a perk, the ensemble of unique instruments.


I need to compare the strings to VSL's BBO or Abbey Road One Legendary Low Strings. Perhaps these have more bite, but LLS have some heft to them and BBO has a lot of articulations.


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## Ricgus3 (Apr 28, 2022)

jl303 said:


> I have All albeons, Symphobia 1-3, and BBC Pro. Would Metropolis Ark 1-4 add/replace (upgrade) anything?


Probably not. Check out corypelizzari review of the arks. He presents all the content in each volume. I own nucleus/Areia/century brass/Albion NEO/BHTC/ssts and more and don’t really feel I NEED any of the arks. Sure there are always gaps that could be filled. But if you have symphobia 1 and 2 and bbc pro you won’t find any unique mind blowing content that replaces all your current library. The sound is amazing in the arks but so is it in many other products. Symphobia sounds amazing as does spitfires stuff. 

This is a respons but also a self reflection to convince myself from not buying arks . My gut tells me I want them but my brains tells me I don’t need them


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## AndyP (Apr 29, 2022)

I have all 5 Arks, still use Ark 1-4 in Kontakt. Where I mainly use the choirs, they are really good. Of all the Arks, 4 is my favorite. Not so wet and the strings are nice. In principle, the Arks are more a supplement to other libraries like Opus, Cinesamples, AI and Co. It's more like picking raisins.


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## mussnig (Apr 29, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Probably not. Check out corypelizzari review of the arks. He presents all the content in each volume. I own nucleus/Areia/century brass/Albion NEO/BHTC/ssts and more and don’t really feel I NEED any of the arks. Sure there are always gaps that could be filled. But if you have symphobia 1 and 2 and bbc pro you won’t find any unique mind blowing content that replaces all your current library. The sound is amazing in the arks but so is it in many other products. Symphobia sounds amazing as does spitfires stuff.
> 
> This is a respons but also a self reflection to convince myself from not buying arks . My gut tells me I want them but my brains tells me I don’t need them


I feel you!

I'm eyeing the Ark 3+4 bundle. But I think for a sale it's still too expensive and I probably already have more than enough stuff (+ Ark 3 seems to have some tempo sync issues that are most likely not going to be fixed anymore for Kontakt).

Also, as much as I like new tools/libraries, I already start feeling choice paralysis from time to time. On the other hand, I sometimes enjoy having choices but also can get lost in auditioning stuff ...


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## Casiquire (Apr 29, 2022)

jl303 said:


> I have All albeons, Symphobia 1-3, and BBC Pro. Would Metropolis Ark 1-4 add/replace (upgrade) anything?


What's offered in the Arks is unique. None of those libraries give you anything like a 6 harps patch or 4 contrabassoons or the unusual combinations in 4. Plus the focus on a particular sound and dynamic means the whole library is played with an extra touch of aggression (or gentleness and tension, if you're Ark 2.) But does that make them "necessary"? Only if you feel you could use an extra push with your high dynamics in Ark 1, 3, and 4, or if you think you need extra low end or some of the beautiful tones in 2. Just because a library offers something _different_ doesn't necessarily mean you need it!


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## jneebz (Apr 29, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Great overview (and some nice demos)
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if you already have Berlin Series and JXL Brass, what the Arks truly bring (as an entire library) - given they are recorded in the same type of way in the same space. Perhaps Ark 3 + 4 are more unique vs. Ark 1 + 2. Certainly choosing individual instruments, like the choirs or certain non-traditional percussion, might be less duplicative.



This was really helpful, thanks for posting.


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## Ricgus3 (Apr 29, 2022)

mussnig said:


> I feel you!
> 
> I'm eyeing the Ark 3+4 bundle. But I think for a sale it's still too expensive and I probably already have more than enough stuff (+ Ark 3 seems to have some tempo sync issues that are most likely not going to be fixed anymore for Kontakt).
> 
> Also, as much as I like new tools/libraries, I already start feeling choice paralysis from time to time. On the other hand, I sometimes enjoy having choices but also can get lost in auditioning stuff ...


I feel you! The new symphobia were 178€ iirc on NI and the arks, while sounding good, is still expensive at 350-ish€ a piece. A bundle for 500€ is nice!


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## AMBi (Apr 29, 2022)

Found a glitch where Time Macro is purchasable at 50% off for anyone interested






Native Instruments







www.native-instruments.com





It’s been removed from the NI store but if you follow a link from Google it shows up at half price and is in stock.
Sadly, Time Micro (the one I wanted) and Special Bows aren't effected and are still at full price.


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## Flyo (Apr 29, 2022)

AMBi said:


> Found a glitch where Time Macro is purchasable at 50% off for anyone interested
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Omg. This is the one I want, I’m thinking now if soon could be released via Sine at bundle set at minor cost for the 2. 🙄


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## Flyo (Apr 29, 2022)

AMBi said:


> Found a glitch where Time Macro is purchasable at 50% off for anyone interested
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also there was glimpse on a video showing the times on a recent video ready on sine player


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## Casiquire (Apr 29, 2022)

AMBi said:


> Found a glitch where Time Macro is purchasable at 50% off for anyone interested
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great catch.



Flyo said:


> Also there was glimpse on a video showing the times on a recent video ready on sine player


I remember that! It's been a couple months. I think we all expected to see it sooner but OT isn't exactly known for speed


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## dzilizzi (Apr 29, 2022)

So, thinking OT was going to be done with Kontakt versions but then realized they needed more serial numbers for some reason. Like people wanting the Kontakt version instead of the Sine version? I'm guessing they get a deal for new numbers with this? 

I have them all, so not anything exciting for me.


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## Getsumen (Apr 29, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> So, thinking OT was going to be done with Kontakt versions but then realized they needed more serial numbers for some reason. Like people wanting the Kontakt version instead of the Sine version? I'm guessing they get a deal for new numbers with this?
> 
> I have them all, so not anything exciting for me.


I thought the opposite. The Arks all recently came to SINE making all the kontakt licenses something they needed to get rid of quickly, so they whipped up a sale. The policy most devs take is they buy a large amount of licenses upfront since it's cheaper, so they probably had a huge stockpile of unused licenses that they've been running on for a while


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## Casiquire (Apr 29, 2022)

Getsumen said:


> I thought the opposite. The Arks all recently came to SINE making all the kontakt licenses something they needed to get rid of quickly, so they whipped up a sale. The policy most devs take is they buy a large amount of licenses upfront since it's cheaper, so they probably had a huge stockpile of unused licenses that they've been running on for a while


This is how I saw it too. All speculation, but it's possible that OT just lets NI do what they want with those licenses, so long as OT gets a certain amount per sale out of it. Maybe that's just my retail brain talking, but such an arrangement would seem to make sense, and the NI sales often feel unlike OT to me. They occur mid-year at all random times.

Side note: how do you register these with OT? There is no email from OT themselves, and the NI serials are not found


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## Flyo (Apr 29, 2022)

I’m seriously grab macro now, but I don’t really know if when the sine versions comes they will offer a free update to Sine if the newer version comes with minor or good changes


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## dzilizzi (Apr 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> This is how I saw it too. All speculation, but it's possible that OT just lets NI do what they want with those licenses, so long as OT gets a certain amount per sale out of it. Maybe that's just my retail brain talking, but such an arrangement would seem to make sense, and the NI sales often feel unlike OT to me. They occur mid-year at all random times.
> 
> Side note: how do you register these with OT? There is no email from OT themselves, and the NI serials are not found


They should be added to your account and available for download on Native Access.


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## AMBi (Apr 29, 2022)

This sale has been the definition of "want - but don't need" for me though I'm still very tempted.

I think the Inspire Bundle would be great to have but I have dedicated libraries for pretty much every articulation available in them. So I'm not sure if they'd be a step down from anything I have or be amazing supplements. 

Was *super* tempted by Macro, but playing with Arkhis alongside the walkthrough video it seems pretty capable of similar sounds.
Micro sounds a bit less Arkhis-y so I'm probably better off waiting for an eventual sale on that


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## Flyo (Apr 29, 2022)

AMBi said:


> This sale has been the definition of "want - but don't need" for me though I'm still very tempted.
> 
> I think the Inspire Bundle would be great to have but I have dedicated libraries for pretty much every articulation available in them. So I'm not sure if they'd be a step down from anything I have or be amazing supplements.
> 
> ...


I put it on hold, in not sure if could be the right choice, it’s still expensive


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## Casiquire (Apr 29, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> They should be added to your account and available for download on Native Access.


Right, but how do I register them with OT so they show up as one of my licenses on their site?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Apr 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Right, but how do I register them with OT so they show up as one of my licenses on their site?



I think you log into your OT account (at their website), then click in the upper right where it says "Activate collection for SINE". They use your NI download code to confirm, or at least that's how they've done it in the past.






Although I've only done this for libraries I owned pre-SINE. There might be a fee involved in this case?


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## Casiquire (Apr 29, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I think you log into your OT account (at their website), then click in the upper right where it says "Activate collection for SINE". They use your NI download code to confirm, or at least that's how they've done it in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The serials are not found


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## Land of Missing Parts (Apr 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> The serials are not found


Huh, I don't know the answer then.


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## Marsen (Apr 29, 2022)

FYI:
Some random ram, sound, voice count comparison Kontakt / Sine on the Arks.

Donˋt start a science discussion on my numbers. It‘s just, to help a bit on some decision (and for myself, to talk me out, buying the kontakt version  ).

I did some comparisons of the Kontakt versus Sine versions with the Arks.
I only own Ark 3+4 for both platform, so I loaded same patches and built some multis.

Multi 1. Two simple articulations
- Kontakt = 22 Mb Ram
- Sine = 12,3 Mb Ram

Multi 2. Two simple, and two „time machine“ articulations.
- Kontakt = 288 Mb Ram
- Voice count (same chord) 80-90

- Sine = 41 Mb Ram
- Voice count (same chord) ~ 120
- cpu load (about the half? no idea why)

sound: identical, no differences I could make up between kontakt/sine

Conclusions:

OT seems to have found a way, to make timestretched files to play, without loading them fully in ram.
If these informations are for you nothing new, great!

For me, it’s impressive, what Sine does, and may can do in the future (apart from these very ugly flaws in the Berlin transition to Sine).
And I also found other transition flaws, I already mentioned, so i won’t repeat them here.

Anyway, personally I think, this offer is of big value.
No other libraries have these combis of sounds, instruments, articulation, and the sound is top tier.
And at sale, they are not overpriced.
Other good thing is, you can always upgrade any later to Sine for a reasonable price.

But the fact, this doesn’t work the other way round for Sine-only users, is not good at all! Yes, I look at you OT!


----------



## Marsen (Apr 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Right, but how do I register them with OT so they show up as one of my licenses on their site?


If you bought the kontakt libraries pre-release of Sine versions, the method of @Land of Missing Parts worked exactly as he said.
After release of Sine versions, you need to crossgrade the kontakt versions for a 10% fee to Sine, to have them look up as „licensed“ at your OT account.


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## jneebz (Apr 29, 2022)

AMBi said:


> Was *super* tempted by Macro, but playing with Arkhis alongside the walkthrough video it seems pretty capable of similar sounds.


You are absolutely correct. I own both. Honestly Time Macro is way more niche than I thought. Rarely use it.

[EDITED for less drama while supercharged on entirely too much caffeine].


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## Marsen (Apr 29, 2022)

Marsen said:


> FYI:
> Some random ram, sound, voice count comparison Kontakt / Sine on the Arks.
> 
> Donˋt start a science discussion on my numbers. It‘s just, to help you a bit on your decision (and for myself, to talk me out, buying the kontakt version  ).
> ...


Here, you can see, which patches I used for the (more interesting ts-multis):


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## zwhita (Apr 29, 2022)

jneebz said:


> You are absolutely correct. I own both. Honestly Time Macro is weird. Wayyy more niche than I thought. Rarely use it .


My kind of weird. Bought, thanks for the heads up AMBi!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 29, 2022)

jneebz said:


> You are absolutely correct. I own both. Honestly Time Macro is weird. Wayyy more niche than I thought. Rarely use it .


Even though it is an unofficial sale, it was the one that had piqued my interest. Will need to check out Arkhis.


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## Casiquire (Apr 29, 2022)

Marsen said:


> If you bought the kontakt libraries pre-release of Sine versions, the method of @Land of Missing Parts worked exactly as he said.
> After release of Sine versions, you need to crossgrade the kontakt versions for a 10% fee to Sine, to have them look up as „licensed“ at your OT account.


Right. Before when i bought kontakt versions straight from their website, the kontakt versions all automatically showed up on my account and a crossgrade price was listed right there. That's not the case with this sale since it isn't through OT directly. So how do I get the kontakt versions to show up, just like all the rest of my sections, as kontakt licenses on OT's site, which would also allow me to upgrade to SINE versions?


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## Casiquire (Apr 29, 2022)

Marsen said:


> FYI:
> Some random ram, sound, voice count comparison Kontakt / Sine on the Arks.
> 
> Donˋt start a science discussion on my numbers. It‘s just, to help a bit on some decision (and for myself, to talk me out, buying the kontakt version  ).
> ...


I second your experiences. SINE is way better on RAM and storage due to really good sample compression. My impression is that the compression isn't totally lossless, but it seems good enough that nobody seems to notice or mind. For me though, actual purge as implemented in kontakt goes a longer way than good compression.


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## dzilizzi (Apr 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Right. Before when i bought kontakt versions straight from their website, the kontakt versions all automatically showed up on my account and a crossgrade price was listed right there. That's not the case with this sale since it isn't through OT directly. So how do I get the kontakt versions to show up, just like all the rest of my sections, as kontakt licenses on OT's site, which would also allow me to upgrade to SINE versions?


It may have to wait until the end of the sale. If I remember correctly, NI shares the information on purchases after the sale is over. At least that was what the guys from SonicCouture told me during their sale.


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## Marsen (Apr 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Right. Before when i bought kontakt versions straight from their website,


And this is it.
You bought from OT site.
This is not the case, buying from NI.


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## Marsen (Apr 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> My impression is that the compression isn't totally lossless


and this might be true…I‘m sometimes imagine, kontakt sounds better, but then again, I‘m unsure and think neee… this is gettin a bit too theoretical.
At least a spectrum analyser could get some answers.


Casiquire said:


> actual purge as implemented in kontakt goes a longer way than good compression.


I‘m totally with you on that.
Only the timestretched articulations having an remarkable advance for Sine.
If Sine will have a proper purge function in the future, it would be a big progress for OT and us users.


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## Casiquire (Apr 29, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> It may have to wait until the end of the sale. If I remember correctly, NI shares the information on purchases after the sale is over. At least that was what the guys from SonicCouture told me during their sale.


Ah i didn't know that! Makes sense. I'm not planning on using SINE at the moment but i do like to have my licenses available, and maybe even downloaded and backed up somewhere


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## Getsumen (Apr 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I second your experiences. SINE is way better on RAM and storage due to really good sample compression. My impression is that the compression isn't totally lossless, but it seems good enough that nobody seems to notice or mind. For me though, actual purge as implemented in kontakt goes a longer way than good compression.


Should be entirely lossless. sineARC was built upon flac iirc which is lossless.


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## Casiquire (Apr 29, 2022)

Getsumen said:


> Should be entirely lossless. sineARC was built upon flac iirc which is lossless.


Nice! That's great to know. My assumption came from the fact that an earlier press bit about SINE compression never mentioned it being lossless, and I figured that would be something you'd mention prominently. I'm glad to be mistaken about that


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 29, 2022)

I'm still trying to decide if Time Macro is overly duplicative of something like Spitfire EVOs or Swarm or LCO or Symphonic Motions - or Sunset Strings. As for the Arks, the aggression captured with Ark 1 seems very difficult to find elsewhere.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 29, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I'm still trying to decide if Time Macro is overly duplicative of something like Spitfire EVOs or Swarm or LCO or Symphonic Motions - or Sunset Strings. As for the Arks, the aggression captured with Ark 1 seems very difficult to find elsewhere.


Regarding Time Macro, my answer is ultimately - yes, it is too duplicative of what I have with Spitfire and others.

Ark 1 + 2 still intriguing though...


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## jbuhler (Apr 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> What's offered in the Arks is unique. None of those libraries give you anything like a 6 harps patch or 4 contrabassoons or the unusual combinations in 4. Plus the focus on a particular sound and dynamic means the whole library is played with an extra touch of aggression (or gentleness and tension, if you're Ark 2.) But does that make them "necessary"? Only if you feel you could use an extra push with your high dynamics in Ark 1, 3, and 4, or if you think you need extra low end or some of the beautiful tones in 2. Just because a library offers something _different_ doesn't necessarily mean you need it!


Yeah, I agree. Except it’s a general principle I think. No one library is generally indispensable. ”Necessary” is so very dependent on what your music needs. I don’t think you disagree but it’s worth reiterating. Also there are many paths.


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## jbuhler (Apr 29, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Regarding Time Macro, my answer is ultimately - yes, it is too duplicative of what I have with Spitfire and others.
> 
> Ark 1 + 2 still intriguing though...


I don’t think the OT Times are duplicative of SF instruments at all. They might not be what you want or need but I find they occupy a distinct place in my VI palette.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 29, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I don’t think the OT Times are duplicative of SF instruments at all. They might not be what you want or need but I find they occupy a distinct place in my VI palette.


In what way do you find them unique compared to SF Evo, OACE, Swarms? I have all of those and compared patches to the Time patches. Are they exactly the same? No, of course not, but there's a lot of similarity in terms of textures. Same for Sunset Strings (which of course are only strings).


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## AMBi (Apr 29, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Regarding Time Macro, my answer is ultimately - yes, it is too duplicative of what I have with Spitfire and others.
> 
> Ark 1 + 2 still intriguing though...


As far as string textures you should be covered with those.
I'd recommend Arkhis as well which can fill the role of the woodwinds, brass, choirs, harps, and reeds to a pretty similar extent of Macro's dna, and includes a wider range of instruments.
It also sounds like it shares some samples though I could be wrong.
It gets relatively cheap in the classified section and sales.

The Sequis + Arkhis bundle at full price even seems like a good deal considering how much you get.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 29, 2022)

AMBi said:


> As far as string textures you should be covered with those.
> I'd recommend Arkhis as well which can fill the role of the woodwinds, brass, choirs, harps, and reeds to a pretty similar extent of Macro's dna, and includes a wider range of instruments.
> It also sounds like it shares some samples though I could be wrong.
> It gets relatively cheap in the classified section and sales.
> ...


Thanks for the recommendation - seems like a number of folks like Arkhis (and a much better price for that than the Times).


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## jbuhler (Apr 29, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> In what way do you find them unique compared to SF Evo, OACE, Swarms? I have all of those and compared patches to the Time patches. Are they exactly the same? No, of course not, but there's a lot of similarity in terms of textures. Same for Sunset Strings (which of course are only strings).


One thing is the Time libraries have features of an ensemble library. Its easier to use one of the Time libraries as the basis for a piece than the similar SF libraries, which are more like elements to be used in a larger whole. The Time instruments are also more capable of non-textural use. So I’d say they sit on the boundary of an ensemble library and a textural library. There’s also a whole set of processed patches in the Times. Maybe a closer comparison would be something like HY’s Symphonic Destruction—though I like the choices and combinations of the Times better than SD.

This is not to say I prefer the Time libraries to the SF ones. I almost certainly use the SF ones more often, but for whatever reason I generally find the Time instruments more inspiring even though I use them less. Go figure. This discussion did prod me to convert my Time Macro template to Kontakt 6 though.


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## kgdrum (Apr 29, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I don’t think the OT Times are duplicative of SF instruments at all. They might not be what you want or need but I find they occupy a distinct place in my VI palette.




I totally agree,TM might not be your cup of tea but it’s a great library,unique and really doesn’t duplicate anything I have from Spitfire.
But I do think both Time Macro and Time Micro(and the Arks) will complement Spitfires Bernard Herman library really well. I honestly don’t hear overlap from either developer. Both Spitfire and Orchestral Tools are top notch developers with each having their individual approach and vision.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 29, 2022)

Well, for the NI sale, they finally convinced me - grabbed ARK 1 + 2. Kontakt forever!


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## Laurin Lenschow (Apr 30, 2022)

AMBi said:


> Found a glitch where Time Macro is purchasable at 50% off for anyone interested
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And... bought! Thank you so much for sharing this observation with us!


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## AMBi (Apr 30, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> And... bought! Thank you so much for sharing this observation with us!


Enjoy!
And here I am desperately hoping it gets fixed soon so I can stop feeling tempted by it haha


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## Ricgus3 (Apr 30, 2022)

I am sitting here watching all the YouTube videos on ark 1 and 2. Now my gut tells me if I get these my journey is over and I will not need anymore orchestral libraries, ofcourse my brain knows this feeling is a lie and just like bringing one piece of chocolate with the coffee, it always leads to wanting more.

I however think that nothing of the sounds I have are similar to the arks, I have albion NEO and maybe that goes in the same ballpark as ark 2. Other than that my modern orchestra is still Nucleus. Blending nucleus with ark 1 could improve the dynamic a lot… damn, all these GAS is creeping in. But 500€ for ark 1 and 2 is still a lot of money for a hobbyist during the inflation in the world


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## Rudianos (Apr 30, 2022)

I got the Ark bundle on SINE. Excellent collection. There is so much grit and passion in these instruments. I love Ark 1 octave strings, sounds so powerful and so musically together. Bartok pizza col legno, what a combo! Choirs and brass fantastic too.

Lots of detail for all sorts of music. Big trailers, Romantic, making Braams.

Blows Spitfire and Audio Imperia out of the water in grit and power. Closest I have heard to sitting in an orchestra. Never really matching in tight clarity though. Even in the other Arks. That said everything is complementary and enough non overlap with other libraries.

Usually OT sales when new content released. No more Arks ... So maybe no sales. This might be the best deal for years.

For TIME I am tempted but I have many Libraries that are out there. I'll wait for the inevitable SINE bundle. Sounds great though.


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## GtrString (Apr 30, 2022)

It's a good offer. Would the Berlin Inspire bundle compete with Spitfire BBC Core as a bread and butter composer tool, or is it a completely different animal?


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## Rudianos (Apr 30, 2022)

GtrString said:


> It's a good offer. Would the Berlin Inspire bundle compete with Spitfire BBC Core as a bread and butter composer tool, or is it a completely different animal?


I think so. Be sure to buy 1 instrument to trial it out on SINE. Good demos here of individual patches. Start with Violin 1 2 demo. https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/collections/inspire-1

$349 gives a lot. Its $578 on OT SINE! I see many of the most used articulations. You can port into SINE at your leisure.


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## mybadmemory (Apr 30, 2022)

Any further discount on inspire 2 if you already own inspire 1?


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## mybadmemory (Apr 30, 2022)

GtrString said:


> It's a good offer. Would the Berlin Inspire bundle compete with Spitfire BBC Core as a bread and butter composer tool, or is it a completely different animal?


In my eyes they are very different beasts. Inspire is mostly ensemble patches, basically no individual sections, and just a few solo instruments.

BBCSO is the opposite. No ensembles, but all the individual sections and most of the wind and brass soloists. Just the string leaders missing. The sound of the two are also vastly different.


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## AMBi (Apr 30, 2022)

Feels weird being so tempted by the Inspire bundle at $350 when I’ve passed on BBSCO several times at $200~ and it seems to offer so much more.

I am cursed by the desire to see new shinies in the Kontakt library tab


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 30, 2022)

Grabbed Arkhis from a forum member for more than 50% cheaper than the normal price. Hopefully pares well with ARK 1 and 2. My thirst is quenched for OT's wares.


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## dzilizzi (Apr 30, 2022)

AMBi said:


> Feels weird being so tempted by the Inspire bundle at $350 when I’ve passed on BBSCO several times at $200~ and it seems to offer so much more.
> 
> I am cursed by the desire to see new shinies in the Kontakt library tab


So, after a while, there are so many libraries, you give up on using the pretty library tab because it is almost useless to find libraries with. I end up using the search.


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## zwhita (Apr 30, 2022)

Can anyone comment on what extra content got added to Ark 3 for the SINE version? Kontakt version says 115 GB, and SINE says 192. Might be an incentive to upgrade on my next DAW machine. SINE version doesn't have multis though, I think. Big loss if so.


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## Rudianos (Apr 30, 2022)

zwhita said:


> Can anyone comment on what extra content got added to Ark 3 for the SINE version? Kontakt version says 115 GB, and SINE says 192. Might be an incentive to upgrade on my next DAW machine. SINE version doesn't have multis though, I think. Big loss if so.


I'll check into that when I get home. If someone else doesn't. You have to make your own multis you can go ahead and load the patches that you want. Save as SINE patch. In fact I really like doing this because I can choose the articulations mics that I want to use for a particular multi and only load those.


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## Marsen (Apr 30, 2022)

zwhita said:


> Can anyone comment on what extra content got added to Ark 3 for the SINE version? Kontakt version says 115 GB, and SINE says 192. Might be an incentive to upgrade on my next DAW machine. SINE version doesn't have multis though, I think. Big loss if so.


No extra content.
Seems like Sine compression works bad on timestretch material, which is the biggest part from Ark 3 in terms of storage.
It also just could be a typo.


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## Marsen (Apr 30, 2022)

AMBi said:


> Feels weird being so tempted by the Inspire bundle at $350 when I’ve passed on BBSCO several times at $200~ and it seems to offer so much more.
> 
> I am cursed by the desire to see new shinies in the Kontakt library tab


Why do you think, it offers more?
Very different kind of libraries.


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## Futchibon (Apr 30, 2022)

AMBi said:


> Found a glitch where Time Macro is purchasable at 50% off for anyone interested
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How did you find this?! And can you find one for Lumina please?


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## Marsen (Apr 30, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> How did you find this?! And can you find one for Lumina please?


Lumina Update 2.0 is in the works.
I‘m sure, they will have a special offer at release.


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## Getsumen (Apr 30, 2022)

Marsen said:


> Lumina Update 2.0 is in the works.
> I‘m sure, they will have a special offer at release.


Oh shoot there's a Lumina update? I thought PS said that they were only doing the first two Symphobias and True Strike at first.


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## Marsen (Apr 30, 2022)

Getsumen said:


> Oh shoot there's a Lumina update? I thought PS said that they were only doing the first two Symphobias and True Strike at first.


Look at the comments.


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## Getsumen (Apr 30, 2022)

Marsen said:


> Look at the comments.



Oh boy. Chalk me up as excited! I don't have any of the Symphobias yet and out of all of them, Lumina was always the one that seemed most appealing. Fantastic <3


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## Rudianos (Apr 30, 2022)

Thought I would post some keyboard play of Ark 1 all brass patches and High Strings.

Brass

View attachment Ark 1 Brass.mp3


High Strings

View attachment High Strings.mp3



And low shorts are throughout here.






Ultimate Low Shorts Thread


Like many of you - I have more string libraries than I ever thought would happen. Thought I would create a thread here to compare low shorts and only low shorts. You know the type of shorts that drive a composition from the depths of resiny goodness. I plan to slowly add more but will start with...




vi-control.net


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## dunamisstudio (Apr 30, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> How did you find this?! And can you find one for Lumina please?


I'll take one for Pandora


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## dunamisstudio (Apr 30, 2022)

AMBi said:


> Found a glitch where Time Macro is purchasable at 50% off for anyone interested
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh no.......Do I really need this? I have Arkhis and Spitfire Evos. I need someone to say no so I can get through this sale unscathed.


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## AMBi (Apr 30, 2022)

Marsen said:


> Why do you think, it offers more?
> Very different kind of libraries.


I guess I meant more in terms of flexibility and
The Inspire's don't really have any string or brass section legato patches that aren't in octaves or blended with other instruments so they seem a bit limiting in that regard.

You’re right they’re very different, and I find the Inspire’s blends more appealing overall since I’m basically set as far as bread and butter stuff.



Futchibon said:


> How did you find this?! And can you find one for Lumina please?


Every product on the NI site has 2 pages. They removed the main pages for OT products so that they redirect to the current sale, but left the pricing pages up. So there’s a possibility they’ll be re-added after the sale ends. I’ll definitely be looking there every time now whenever another company sale happens lol


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## dunamisstudio (Apr 30, 2022)

AMBi said:


> Found a glitch where Time Macro is purchasable at 50% off for anyone interested
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also speaking of glitches, Symphobia 1&2 are still on sale.


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## Ricgus3 (Apr 30, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> Also speaking of glitches, Symphobia 1&2 are still on sale.


Very attractive Price compare to ark price. Anyone have any thing to add how arks and symphobia compare? Both sounds excellent to my ears


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## dzilizzi (May 1, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Very attractive Price compare to ark price. Anyone have any thing to add how arks and symphobia compare? Both sounds excellent to my ears


I don't think they are comparable. More like apples and oranges. Ark 1 is LOUD and has some different instruments than you find in normal orchestra. Lots of ensemble instruments. Ark 2 is softer, but similar in the different instruments and ensembles. 

The Symphobias have, to me, weird combinations of instruments, though you can silence the ones you don't want to use. They limit the range on a lot of the instruments also. But it is more normal orchestral sounding as far as loudness and is really made to write quick cues for media. 

Truthfully, I bought the Symphobias during one of these NI sales and rarely use them. I tend to use the Arks a little more, partially for the unusual horns. And? I think it has more to do with me not liking ensemble instruments. I find them hard to use. If you like ensembles, you will likely find both useful. Both have good sound and are usable, more so for media composers.


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## JG03 (May 1, 2022)

Hey I'm a begginer who's learning music orchestration for video games using Composer Cloud's libraries and some Komplete orchestral libraries and I'm thinking about buying MA 1 & with this kontakt sale 
( https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/komplete/orchestral-tools-offer-2022/ )
but I would like to know if it would be worth the upgrade, or if I should take an alternative option, for someone who's still learning and wants orchestral music for ambience and big impact moments.

Let me know if you have advice, thank you!


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## Crowe (May 2, 2022)

JG03 said:


> Hey I'm a begginer who's learning music orchestration for video games using Composer Cloud's libraries and some Komplete orchestral libraries and I'm thinking about buying MA 1 & with this kontakt sale
> ( https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/komplete/orchestral-tools-offer-2022/ )
> but I would like to know if it would be worth the upgrade, or if I should take an alternative option, for someone who's still learning and wants orchestral music for ambience and big impact moments.
> 
> Let me know if you have advice, thank you!


If you want Big Impacts, I would probably advise getting MA1. If you are looking for softer, more ambient tones, MA2 would be my recommendation. These are mutually exclusive. MA1 does not do soft. MA2 does not do loud.

The answer is therefore getting the MA 1 + 2 bundle.

But I wouldn't take my word for it.


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## MartinH. (May 2, 2022)

Crowe said:


> If you want Big Impacts, I would probably advise getting MA1.


I feel the need to clarify that impact does not mean percussion here. There aren't that many percussion instruments in MA1. So if you're thinking of "trailer impacts", look elsewhere.



dzilizzi said:


> Ark 1 is LOUD and has some different instruments than you find in normal orchestra. Lots of ensemble instruments.


Imho Ark 1 isn't _that _much louder than Symphobia 1+2 for example, it just has no quiet dynamics sampled for most articulations. I think it's mainly marketing that has drilled into everyones head how loud it supposedly is. To me it's more dark and menacing than loud. And the instrument selection in Ark 1 isn't that unusual either imho. The few gimmicks like electric guitar or piano are so limited, I'd barely count them as part of the "real" collection. And the brass has normal separate sections - trumpets, horns a3, horns a9, trombones, cimbassi, tubas. Also bassoons and contra bassoons but no other woodwinds. That's where it's lacking the most imho.
Strings are ensembles of high strings and low strings though, that can be annoying. Choir is split in men and women.



Ricgus3 said:


> Very attractive Price compare to ark price. Anyone have any thing to add how arks and symphobia compare? Both sounds excellent to my ears


Symphobia 1+2 have more aleatoric content, but no choir. Less round robins on the shorts but tighter and cleaner editing. Slightly less aggressive at max velocity, but not _that _much imho. They sound more like Hollywood to me and Ark 1 more like videogames in grim and dark settings, like Bloodborne. Imho Symphobia 1+2 have more versatility to cover different genres and dynamics overall, but less versatility in brass orchestration because of more ensemble patches and less articulations. In terms of workflow I prefer Symphobia for keyswitching and building multis, and Metropolis Ark 1 for single articulation patches (if you try to set up a Symphobia template with single articulation tracks in Reaper you'd be better of asking to get a copy of their old version because each instance of the newest version adds a couple megabyte filesize to the project file in reaper (probably in other DAWs too) ).
In terms of support Project Sam wins hands down and is more deserving of your money. The Metropolis Ark Kontakt versions will not receive updates anymore and have more known bugs and less tight editing.

I think I have a slight preference for the sound of MA1 but I think S1+2 is the overall better value bundle if you don't want to laser focus on the style that MA1 fits for better. If you want to do proper orchestration with individual sections or even divisi, neither is a good choice for you. That used to bother me a lot but I'm increasingly indifferent and started to appreciate ensemble patch simplicity. YMMV...


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## dzilizzi (May 2, 2022)

Also, the Symphobias are resellable, whereas the Arks aren't. Don't know if that weighs into your decision.


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## Crowe (May 6, 2022)

Public Service Announcement:

This sale ends in less than 3 days!


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## MartinH. (May 6, 2022)

Crowe said:


> It's why I kinda have to buy the 3+4 set this time. I don't think the Kontakt version will be available for much longer.


Did you give in to the FOMO, or are you still contemplating whether you should buy them now or not?


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## Crowe (May 6, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Did you give in to the FOMO, or are you still contemplating whether you should buy them now or not?


Is it FOMO if you've wanted them for a while?

If so, yeah, I gave in.


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## Ricgus3 (May 6, 2022)

I decided to participate in the meta pop contest instead. Can’t afford 500 but I do have some free time to make a track for it


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## MartinH. (May 6, 2022)

Crowe said:


> Is it FOMO if you've wanted them for a while?
> 
> If so, yeah, I gave in.


Well, I hope you'll like them! Let us know what you think of Ark 3 after you've used it for a couple of hours.


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## jneebz (May 6, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Well, for the NI sale, they finally convinced me - grabbed ARK 1 + 2. Kontakt forever!


How are you liking them? Are you using them for trailers?


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## ALittleNightMusic (May 6, 2022)

jneebz said:


> How are you liking them? Are you using them for trailers?


I’m using them a surprising amount so far - especially Ark 1. It just has the heft and bite that is not found elsewhere (except in brass with JXL). Overall happy with the purchase (though still think it is too pricey) and very glad it is in Kontakt vs. SINE.


----------



## moon (May 7, 2022)

Can anyone convince/dissuade me on getting the Arks? (1, 2, and 4) I also get EDU at OT, which comes out to almost the same price to get all of them, but I'm not sure if the Sine ports are still a hot mess.


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## Crowe (May 7, 2022)

moon said:


> Can anyone convince/dissuade me on getting the Arks? (1, 2, and 4) I also get EDU at OT, which comes out to almost the same price to get all of them, but I'm not sure if the Sine ports are still a hot mess.


For the sine ports: I do, in fact, think Sine is still utterly inadequate. If you're a happy Kontakt user there is zero reason to not get the Kontakt versions.

I have nothing to say that could dissuade someone from getting any of the Arks. They are among my most favourite libraries I own.

Edit: there's some talk about some iffy timings on the shorts in M1 but I haven't run into problems yet. It's fixable within the editor though, so if you're at all technically inclined any real problems would seem to be fixable.

Personal opinion: M2 is personally more useful to me than M1. The two do really complete each other, however. If you get any of them, those two would be recommended.


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## jbuhler (May 7, 2022)

moon said:


> Can anyone convince/dissuade me on getting the Arks? (1, 2, and 4) I also get EDU at OT, which comes out to almost the same price to get all of them, but I'm not sure if the Sine ports are still a hot mess.


I like the Sine ports of Arks 1 and 2, and they fixed a number of small issues with the Kontakt version, such as the horn rip in Kontakt not always triggering properly. The Sine versions also have issues, such as quite a few hanging notes. Of course hanging notes are something the Kontakt versions also struggle with. But that's really more an irritation than something that gets in the way of working. Even though I have both Kontakt and Sine versions, I mostly use the Sine versions.

I've only had 4 since the previous sale on the Arks in December. I haven't used it that much, but in terms of sound it is my favorite of the set, and because it has high woodwinds it really expands the sound of the Arks in the direction of more adequately covering a standard large orchestra sound.


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## moon (May 7, 2022)

Crowe said:


> For the sine ports: I do, in fact, think Sine is still utterly inadequate. If you're a happy Kontakt user there is zero reason to not get the Kontakt versions.
> 
> I have nothing to say that could dissuade someone from getting any of the Arks. They are among my most favourite libraries I own.
> 
> ...


Thank you! Of course, my interest ranking goes 4, then 2, then 1.


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## moon (May 7, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I like the Sine ports of Arks 1 and 2, and they fixed a number of small issues with the Kontakt version, such as the horn rip in Kontakt not always triggering properly. The Sine versions also have issues, such as quite a few hanging notes. Of course hanging notes are something the Kontakt versions also struggle with. But that's really more an irritation than something that gets in the way of working. Even though I have both Kontakt and Sine versions, I mostly use the Sine versions.
> 
> I've only had 4 since the previous sale on the Arks in December. I haven't used it that much, but in terms of sound it is my favorite of the set, and because it has high woodwinds it really expands the sound of the Arks in the direction of more adequately covering a standard large orchestra sound.


Would you say the 4 kontakt version is better? Or do you use Sine for that one as well?


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## jbuhler (May 7, 2022)

moon said:


> Would you say the 4 kontakt version is better? Or do you use Sine for that one as well?


I only have the Sine version of 4, so I can't offer a comparison. But I've been happy with the Sine version of 4.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 7, 2022)

Crowe said:


> For the sine ports: I do, in fact, think Sine is still utterly inadequate.


Because of stability issues, or lack of purging, or some other reason?

I prefer Kontakt as well. But I'm on the fence because this deal is overcharging US customers (by pricing as if VAT is included, then charging US tax on top), and it'll be significantly cheaper for me to wait and pick it up later in SINE.


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## jneebz (May 7, 2022)

Welp after wayyyy too much analysis, I’m the proud owner of Ark 2&4. These two will fit my style the most I think and I liked the idea of having the Kontakt versions for now. Thanks to everyone who shared experiences and advice!


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 7, 2022)

@Marsen , Have you come across any significant issues with the SINE ports for Ark 3 or Ark 4?


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## Marsen (May 7, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> @Marsen , Have you come across any significant issues with the SINE ports for Ark 3 or Ark 4?


Yes, temposynced Ark 3 parts were totally off the beat, compared to the Kontakt version ( I did not tried every single articulation, to many in Ark 3). Unusable I would say.
But this was sine 1.08.
OT says in changelog, this is fixed in 1.09.

I can't proof for the moment (haven't updated yet), and I'm on vacation, far from my rig 🙂..
Maybe someone else can confirm, that it's working now.

As far as I remember, Ark 4 had some minor issues, (some may be already fixed).


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## Crowe (May 7, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Because of stability issues, or lack of purging, or some other reason?
> 
> I prefer Kontakt as well. But I'm on the fence because this deal is overcharging US customers (by pricing as if VAT is included, then charging US tax on top), and it'll be significantly cheaper for me to wait and pick it up later in SINE.


Stability is a small part, but depth of options within Kontakt and especially memory handling put it above Sine in my view.

If one doesn't care about all that there isn't that much to be gained by going for Kontakt. It's not like Sine is unusable. I personally just don't think it's very good.


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## jbuhler (May 7, 2022)

Marsen said:


> Yes, temposynced Ark 3 parts were totally off the beat, compared to the Kontakt version ( I did not tried every single articulation, to many in Ark 3). Unusable I would say.
> But this was sine 1.08.
> OT says in changelog, this is fixed in 1.09.
> 
> ...


I always had trouble with the tempo synched Ark 3 patches in Kontakt and I’ve found the versions in Sine marginally better but still not right. I’m using one right now with Sine 1.0.8 that works through four bars without falling noticeably out of time.


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## jneebz (May 7, 2022)

OH. MY.
Just stopping back here to say WHY THE HELL DID I WAIT? I honestly did not think the sounds I'm hearing were possible with samples. I don't know if it's Teldex or the quality of players or the sample editing but these are...HANDS DOWN...the best samples I own, and I have a TON. Wow. Just wow. So exciting and inspiring, I can't wait to write with these libraries. Damn...WOW.
/END GUSH


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## Ricgus3 (May 7, 2022)

jneebz said:


> OH. MY.
> Just stopping back here to say WHY THE HELL DID I WAIT? I honestly did not think the sounds I'm hearing were possible with samples. I don't know if it's Teldex or the quality of players or the sample editing but these are...HANDS DOWN...the best samples I own, and I have a TON. Wow. Just wow. So exciting and inspiring, I can't wait to write with these libraries. Damn...WOW.
> /END GUSH


NOOO! My GAS is exploding! I was gonna skip this one cause I though I had enough. But I have listened to the walkthroughs (may diffrent) and what you describe is just what I hear... the sound amazing to me. I might need to reconcider skipping... I have no beef with SINE so I could pick it up on sale on sine. BUT I live in sweden and the VAT is horrible for me . So this NI deal is the best i probably will ever see, atleast have seem. Been looking at ark 1 and 2 bundle. 500 is still very steep for me. Added a track to the metapop competition where the prices vere the bundles, thought that would sooth me. BUT IT DIDN'T! Maybe I will just pick one up. I was thinking then ark 1 only? but no piano or mezzopiano dynamic is hard to swallow, hence why the 1+2 bundle looks so good. you get the full range. less than 24h to decide.... Tick tock tick tock (like ark3)


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## Scripter (May 7, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> NOOO! My GAS is exploding! I was gonna skip this one cause I though I had enough. But I have listened to the walkthroughs (may diffrent) and what you describe is just what I hear... the sound amazing to me. I might need to reconcider skipping... I have no beef with SINE so I could pick it up on sale on sine. BUT I live in sweden and the VAT is horrible for me . So this NI deal is the best i probably will ever see, atleast have seem. Been looking at ark 1 and 2 bundle. 500 is still very steep for me. Added a track to the metapop competition where the prices vere the bundles, thought that would sooth me. BUT IT DIDN'T! Maybe I will just pick one up. I was thinking then ark 1 only? but no piano or mezzopiano dynamic is hard to swallow, hence why the 1+2 bundle looks so good. you get the full range. less than 24h to decide.... Tick tock tick tock (like ark3)


Picked it up and yes it sounds nice but keep in mind the range (oktave wise) per instrument is very limeted. So for example the high strings don't get as high as some other libraries would do. Also track delay is a thing you have to set with nearly every patch if you don't want hanging notes. 
Heres what I come up with yesterday after purchasing. Strings, Swells and Brass are from Ark 1. The rest Percussion, Braaams, SFX is not. (Thats also something to keep in mind; Ark is very specialised so if you have no other libs to mix it with Ark could be quite limiting.)

EDIT: Also attached a file with the Ark Content used only.


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## jneebz (May 8, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> NOOO! My GAS is exploding! I was gonna skip this one cause I though I had enough. But I have listened to the walkthroughs (may diffrent) and what you describe is just what I hear... the sound amazing to me. I might need to reconcider skipping... I have no beef with SINE so I could pick it up on sale on sine. BUT I live in sweden and the VAT is horrible for me . So this NI deal is the best i probably will ever see, atleast have seem. Been looking at ark 1 and 2 bundle. 500 is still very steep for me. Added a track to the metapop competition where the prices vere the bundles, thought that would sooth me. BUT IT DIDN'T! Maybe I will just pick one up. I was thinking then ark 1 only? but no piano or mezzopiano dynamic is hard to swallow, hence why the 1+2 bundle looks so good. you get the full range. less than 24h to decide.... Tick tock tick tock (like ark3)


Lol oh man, I feel your pain. I also thought I was going to get 1+2 bundle but I just couldn’t justify Ark 1 as I have plenty of libraries that can do loud and bold if needed. I knew from research that 2 & 4 would end up in more of my tracks so I just went for it. Seriously though, one of the best decisions I’ve made with sample purchases in a long time LOL!

I had a revelation watching Phil Lober’s video series where he writes a trailer track with older libraries (first video in the series is HERE.) Make sure to check out the “Outro 1” video….amazing how he produces that sound by layering all the right frequencies.

The audio examples on OT’s website also helped me a lot. As well as the STUNNING mock-up @dhmusic did with Ark 4 HERE.

FWIW  Good luck!


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## Ricgus3 (May 8, 2022)

jneebz said:


> Lol oh man, I feel your pain. I also thought I was going to get 1+2 bundle but I just couldn’t justify Ark 1 as I have plenty of libraries that can do loud and bold if needed. I knew from research that 2 & 4 would end up in more of my tracks so I just went for it. Seriously though, one of the best decisions I’ve made with sample purchases in a long time LOL!
> 
> I had a revelation watching Phil Lober’s video series where he writes a trailer track with older libraries (first video in the series is HERE.) Make sure to check out the “Outro 1” video….amazing how he produces that sound by layering all the right frequencies.
> 
> ...


So you didn’t get any bundle ? You got 2 and 4 with 50% off%


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## MartinH. (May 8, 2022)

jneebz said:


> OH. MY.
> Just stopping back here to say WHY THE HELL DID I WAIT? I honestly did not think the sounds I'm hearing were possible with samples. I don't know if it's Teldex or the quality of players or the sample editing but these are...HANDS DOWN...the best samples I own, and I have a TON. Wow. Just wow. So exciting and inspiring, I can't wait to write with these libraries. Damn...WOW.
> /END GUSH



What I'd give to have that kind of enthusiasm for anything again...


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## dhmusic (May 8, 2022)

jneebz said:


> Lol oh man, I feel your pain. I also thought I was going to get 1+2 bundle but I just couldn’t justify Ark 1 as I have plenty of libraries that can do loud and bold if needed. I knew from research that 2 & 4 would end up in more of my tracks so I just went for it. Seriously though, one of the best decisions I’ve made with sample purchases in a long time LOL!
> 
> I had a revelation watching Phil Lober’s video series where he writes a trailer track with older libraries (first video in the series is HERE.) Make sure to check out the “Outro 1” video….amazing how he produces that sound by layering all the right frequencies.
> 
> ...


Link doesn't seem to work. Thanks for the shoutout though  

here are the links to the two Ark 4 mockups I made:


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## mybadmemory (May 8, 2022)

dhmusic said:


> Link doesn't seem to work. Thanks for the shoutout though
> 
> here are the links to the two Ark 4 mockups I made:



These are amazing mock-ups! Thanks for reminding me about them both! Truly inspiring! We’re they both using MA4 primarily?


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## frioventus (May 8, 2022)

dhmusic said:


> Link doesn't seem to work. Thanks for the shoutout though
> 
> here are the links to the two Ark 4 mockups I made:



Ok I'm getting Ark 3-4 bundle!


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## dhmusic (May 8, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> These are amazing mock-ups! Thanks for reminding me about them both! Truly inspiring! We’re they both using MA4 primarily?


Thanks so much 

Yes the ff8 one is pretty much all Ark 4 except for the snare drum which I almost left out. The goal with that one was to have the same driving energy with minimal percussion.

Ride is about 90% Ark 4. I'm also using some Berlin Percussion and Nocturne Soloist Violin on that one. I really like the bright retro vibe that library delivers when used all together. It often reminds me of the M*A*S*H intro tbh


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## Ricgus3 (May 8, 2022)

dhmusic said:


> Link doesn't seem to work. Thanks for the shoutout though
> 
> here are the links to the two Ark 4 mockups I made:



Holy hell! Those are some amazing sounding mockups indead! Here I was looking at ark1 when I now know ark4 is a real beast! My GAS is EXPLODING!


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## jneebz (May 8, 2022)

dhmusic said:


> Link doesn't seem to work. Thanks for the shoutout though


Fixed..thanks!


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## jneebz (May 8, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> What I'd give to have that kind of enthusiasm for anything again...


Trust me, it's been a while since anything musical inspired me.


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## jneebz (May 8, 2022)

dhmusic said:


> Link doesn't seem to work. Thanks for the shoutout though
> 
> here are the links to the two Ark 4 mockups I made:



Hey just curious on the mix for "Ride"...it seems to have a much narrowed stereo field compared to the FF8 track. Was that intentional for the vibe? Either way, another amazing mockup!


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## dhmusic (May 8, 2022)

jneebz said:


> Hey just curious on the mix for "Ride"...it seems to have a much narrowed stereo field compared to the FF8 track. Was that intentional for the vibe? Either way, another amazing mockup!


Yup that was done at the mix stage. The reference I was using was pretty narrow.

The ff8 track is pretty representative of the natural mics with some limiting on the master bus.


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## Casiquire (May 8, 2022)

dhmusic said:


> Link doesn't seem to work. Thanks for the shoutout though
> 
> here are the links to the two Ark 4 mockups I made:



I've been following this one ^^ for months now. Crazy talented!

MA4 is all installed now. The excitement is real


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## dhmusic (May 8, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I've been following this one ^^ for months now. Crazy talented!
> 
> MA4 is all installed now. The excitement is real


Thanks so much  I'll be sure to post something new soon.


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## Braveheart (May 8, 2022)

jneebz said:


> OH. MY.
> Just stopping back here to say WHY THE HELL DID I WAIT? I honestly did not think the sounds I'm hearing were possible with samples. I don't know if it's Teldex or the quality of players or the sample editing but these are...HANDS DOWN...the best samples I own, and I have a TON. Wow. Just wow. So exciting and inspiring, I can't wait to write with these libraries. Damn...WOW.
> /END GUSH


For me, price for Ark 2 and 4 is bigger than OT sale price when I could get 2, 4 and 5 for less.


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## jneebz (May 8, 2022)

Braveheart said:


> For me, price for Ark 2 and 4 is bigger than OT sale price when I could get 2, 4 and 5 for less.


Not sure I understand.


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## Trash Panda (May 8, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Love the sound of the Arks, but they are still hilariously overpriced.


And yet here we are with all 4 downloading. Nice one, Past TP.

Signed,
Present TP

_YOU FOOLS WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!?!
- Future TP_


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 8, 2022)

jneebz said:


> Not sure I understand.


The current NI sale is overcharging US customers relative to European customers because it's priced artificially high as if VAT was included, then you pay US tax on top. Frankly, my respect for NI as a company has diminished because of it.

So OT's "Complete your collection" sale last Christmas worked out to be a lot cheaper if you break it down per-library. In fact, even at this moment (not on sale) OT's "Complete your collection" is almost as cheap as NI's current sale for me.

Problem is, of course, this sale is offering Kontakt and the other is offering SINE.


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## Futchibon (May 8, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> And yet here we are with all 4 downloading. Nice one, past TP.
> 
> Signed,
> Present TP
> ...


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## Trash Panda (May 8, 2022)

Futchibon said:


>


Sorry, can't hear you. Too busy getting blatted in the face with fff everything.

P.S. - you're so right. So. So. Right.


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## Ricgus3 (May 8, 2022)

I have decided. My gas is through the roof. It is with a heavy heart I have decided to pass on this amazing deal. I cannot justify the cost at this time. Will look forward to another great deal , either on sine or kontakt! I bought BHTC at the 50%apex and have yet to write anything. I made a promise to myself that I must always produce a track with the new libraries before I buy more. I have not been true to myself and not produced a track yet. 

They sound amazing! Very happy to hear the amazing mockups! As a FF fan who grew up with ff7 and ff9 I look forward to that sound!

Sorry for the personal diary-type writing  needed to vent this off my chest


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## jneebz (May 9, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> I have decided. My gas is through the roof. It is with a heavy heart I have decided to pass on this amazing deal. I cannot justify the cost at this time. Will look forward to another great deal , either on sine or kontakt! I bought BHTC at the 50%apex and have yet to write anything. I made a promise to myself that I must always produce a track with the new libraries before I buy more. I have not been true to myself and not produced a track yet.
> 
> They sound amazing! Very happy to hear the amazing mockups! As a FF fan who grew up with ff7 and ff9 I look forward to that sound!
> 
> Sorry for the personal diary-type writing  needed to vent this off my chest


Definitely been there! Sounds like you made a wise decision. Pull up one of your libraries that you haven’t fully explored yet and see if you can get some GAS relief by discovering new sounds you already have!


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## Braveheart (May 9, 2022)

jneebz said:


> Not sure I understand.


Complete your collection on Sine has been on sale a couple of months ago, and I could get 2, 4 and 5 for a lower price, than buying 2 and 4 through NI.


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## ism (May 9, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Holy hell! Those are some amazing sounding mockups indead! Here I was looking at ark1 when I now know ark4 is a real beast! My GAS is EXPLODING!


And don't forget: Power Legato!

(Though personally, I use ark 4 exclusively for singing cows).


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## jneebz (May 9, 2022)

Braveheart said:


> Complete your collection on Sine has been on sale a couple of months ago, and I could get 2, 4 and 5 for a lower price, than buying 2 and 4 through NI.


Oh OK gotcha. As a new Ark owner I wasn’t aware of the complete-the-bundle pricing.


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