# OMG, my new Mac Mini server 2.0 Quad Core i7!



## EastWest Lurker (Aug 21, 2012)

Holy crap! I opened a project that even with my PC slave doing a lot of the heavy lifting, my aging 1st gen Mac Pro 2,66 Quad Core was struggling with. With the Mac Mini server 2.0 Quad Core i7, look at what is happening!


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 21, 2012)

BTW, am I saying this is the one to buy if you are only using one machine? No.The most powerful iMac would be better but if you are looking for an inexpensive yet very powerful Mac to use with a PC slave that has Thunderbolt, you should consider this. I bought it with 2 500 GB 7200 HDs internal and 16 GB RAM (max) for $1125.


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## givemenoughrope (Aug 21, 2012)

Thanks for the photo evidence. I'm sold. 

I'm dumping my '06 Mac Pro quad this week if possible and buying the same Mac Mini. I'm even considering dumping my slaves and going with the MBP/Mac Mini slaves via VE pro route eventually. Anyone doing that?


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## midphase (Aug 21, 2012)

Before you dump your '06 Mac Pro, you might consider this CPU upgrade that I did successfully and which breathed new life into my machine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmz7gPw31L0


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 21, 2012)

Kays, I saw a comment on YouTube from someone who couldn't get screws loose and stripped them.

There's a trick I learned from working on my motor scooter when you can't get a screw off, and it might be worth a try: spray it with canned compressed air (you know, the stuff you use to blow out things like computer keyboards). The metal will cool, and may contract just enough to loosen up.

Will post this on YouTube as well...


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## kgdrum (Aug 21, 2012)

The upgrade mods to the MacPros scare me,they look potentially great unless you have a problem.


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## givemenoughrope (Aug 21, 2012)

Kays, I've thought about this upgrade and watched your tutorial before. A geekbench score of 11k is very attractive, especially for a machine that I already own. I'm trying to be a bit more portable/modular though. The machine also generates a ton of heat (I had to build a 'server' room in the garage.) 

If anyone is interested in a Mac Pro 2.66 Quad with 20 GB RAM, 4 500 GB HDs, and an eSata port, let me know.


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## JT3_Jon (Aug 21, 2012)

I thought you were a UAD guy Jay? How are you using your UAD plugins in your mixing DAW if it has not PCI slots? Thats the one thing that keeps me on a mac pro (that and multiple HD's for audio recording / project storage vs system)


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 21, 2012)

JT3_Jon @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> I thought you were a UAD guy Jay? How are you using your UAD plugins in your mixing DAW if it has not PCI slots? Thats the one thing that keeps me on a mac pro (that and multiple HD's for audio recording / project storage vs system)



I bought a Sonnet PCI-e to Thunderbolt chassis.

http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?&products_id=403 (http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_in ... cts_id=403)


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## rJames (Aug 21, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> Holy crap! I opened a project that even with my PC slave doing a lot of the heavy lifting, my aging 1st gen Mac Pro 2,66 Quad Core was struggling with. With the Mac Mini server 2.0 Quad Core i7, look at what is happening!



Hey Jay, would this do me any good? I have been using one 2 x 3.2 GHz quad core. I'd love to add a slave but don't want to add PCs. 

My old machine does not have Thunderbolt so does that negate the kind of power that it is providing you? I have not looked into multiple machines ever so please be kind regarding my stupid questions.

Can I control it from my current monitor? (30" bought with the MAc pro.)

Thanks,

Ron


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## gsilbers (Aug 21, 2012)

i switch my i5 mac mini for the i7 quad and it was a big difference. 

the 2.0 i think is misleading, apple calls it "turbo" but supposly they go up to 2.9ghz .


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 21, 2012)

rJames @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Tue Aug 21 said:
> 
> 
> > Holy crap! I opened a project that even with my PC slave doing a lot of the heavy lifting, my aging 1st gen Mac Pro 2,66 Quad Core was struggling with. With the Mac Mini server 2.0 Quad Core i7, look at what is happening!
> ...



Thunderbolt does not give you power, Ron. What it gives you is the ability to have PCI-e speed or _better_ thruput without needing a machine that has pci-e slots.

And yes, you can share a monitor with the two machines. It will work great for your Kontakt based libraries but nothing matches a PC (yet) for HS, HB, and HOW.


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## rJames (Aug 21, 2012)

Yes I meant to say speed (in my mind speed=power).

Specifically, the thunderbolt helps when it is on just one machine? Thunderbolt improves the internal buss speed?

I thought maybe I'd need Thunderbolt on the main machine to expedite communication.

How do the machines communicate? ethernet and optical audio?? You see what I mean about not knowing anything about this yet? I've just ignored the threads about multiple machines. But I know it is time.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 21, 2012)

rJames @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> Yes I meant to say speed (in my mind speed=power).
> 
> Specifically, the thunderbolt helps when it is on just one machine? Thunderbolt improves the internal buss speed?
> 
> ...



Thunderbolt on a single machine will not help unless you are connecting Thunderbolt devices to it.

If you use VE Pro 5 on the slave, and I STRONGLY recommend that you do, all you need is the ethernet cable.


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## dcoscina (Aug 21, 2012)

Funny I was thinking of upgrading to a Mac Mini dual core and using my aging Mac Pro 2.66 as a sample computer slave. Like rjames, I've ignored multiple computer threads up until now. I have Vienna ensemble 5 so it looks like this will work.


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## dcoscina (Aug 21, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> rJames @ Tue Aug 21 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I meant to say speed (in my mind speed=power).
> ...



Sweet. And using a single 27" LED monitor is possible between the two computers right Jay?


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 21, 2012)

dcoscina @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Tue Aug 21 said:
> 
> 
> > rJames @ Tue Aug 21 said:
> ...



Yes.


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## mosso (Aug 21, 2012)

JT3_Jon @ 21/8/2012 said:


> Thats the one thing that keeps me on a mac pro (that and multiple HD's for audio recording / project storage vs system)



It's worth saying that the Mini Server comes with 2x 7200rpm drives as standard. you could add more using the FW800 connection or using a Thunderbolt hub.

I've been using a Mini Server as the master in my multi machine setup since Feb this year and it really is impressive for such a small box - thanks for sharing Jay!


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## bdr (Aug 21, 2012)

Thanks for the info Jay. According to the Apple Mac Mini webpage you can only get up to 8 GB RAM..was yours a special order?

http://store.apple.com/au/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_mini/select (http://store.apple.com/au/browse/home/s ... ini/select)


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## midphase (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm about to embark on a new tutorial video series, this time for a dual boot Windows/OS X Hackintosh.

Got lots of great info from Jose Herring on components...I'll keep you all posted how it turns out (just waiting on a few more pieces parts before I get started).


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 21, 2012)

bdr @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> Thanks for the info Jay. According to the Apple Mac Mini webpage you can only get up to 8 GB RAM..was yours a special order?
> 
> http://store.apple.com/au/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_mini/select (http://store.apple.com/au/browse/home/s ... ini/select)


Any Apple reseller will put 16 GB in it for you.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 21, 2012)

I'd be curious to hear Eric's take on this. He's repeatedly talked about higher clock speeds for CPU intensive synths (like Ominisphere).


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## benmrx (Aug 22, 2012)

I'm sorely needing to upgrade my 2.66hz Mac Pro. I've been looking at these with the intent on using my current machine as a slave with VEPro. The other option is a used Macpro through Amazon or something similar. Good to hear some positive results with these!


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 22, 2012)

NYC Composer @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> I'd be curious to hear Eric's take on this. He's repeatedly talked about higher clock speeds for CPU intensive synths (like Ominisphere).



I just ran 30 Omnis on this. I could only do 18 on my previous machine.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 22, 2012)

If I go this route, I'd rather do it the other way around and use the Mini as a slave. My present system is Snow Leopard- can a Lion based Mini act as a slave for a SL based host?


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## Gerd Kaeding (Aug 22, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> NYC Composer @ Tue Aug 21 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be curious to hear Eric's take on this. He's repeatedly talked about higher clock speeds for CPU intensive synths (like Ominisphere).
> ...



Hello Jay ,

concerning VEPRO :

I think you've mentioned somewhere that you have nearly everything in one instance in VEPRO , right ?

So , how many Stereo Tracks / AUX Tracks do you receive from your PC-Slave into your MacMini Logic session ?


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 22, 2012)

NYC Composer @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> If I go this route, I'd rather do it the other way around and use the Mini as a slave. My present system is Snow Leopard- can a Lion based Mini act as a slave for a SL based host?



Theoretically, yes, but I have not tried it.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 22, 2012)

Gerd Kaeding @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Wed Aug 22 said:
> 
> 
> > NYC Composer @ Tue Aug 21 said:
> ...



I gave up on the Multiport layer. It created more problems than it solved.

On my PC I have 7 v-frames within a metaframe that I connect to from 7 stereo server instances in Logic, with 4 v-frames within a metaframe on my Mac that I connect to from 4 stereo server instances in Logic.

This way I have a lot of control without creating a lot of auxes forVE Pro, as sadly, Logic processes all those auxes on 1 core.


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## Gerd Kaeding (Aug 22, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> Gerd Kaeding @ Wed Aug 22 said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ Wed Aug 22 said:
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That's why I was asking . 


But good to know that you gave up on the multiportlayer , because I'm currently (still) rebuilding my setup and just wanted to go the multilportlayer-road. So , you saved me some headaches. thanks .

I'm quite impressed how powerful your MacMini is.


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## gsilbers (Aug 22, 2012)

NYC Composer @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> I'd be curious to hear Eric's take on this. He's repeatedly talked about higher clock speeds for CPU intensive synths (like Ominisphere).



like i said above…

the mac mini goes up to 2.9ghz. 

http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/inde ... ic=14222.0

also

Processor Speed:	2.0 GHz	Processor Type:	Core i7 (I7-2635QM)
Details:	This model is powered by a 32 nm, 64-bit Intel Mobile Core i7 "Sandy Bridge" (I7-2635QM) processor which includes four independent processor "cores" on a single silicon chip. Each core has a dedicated 256k level 2 cache, shares 6 MB of level 3 cache, and has an integrated memory controller (dual channel).

This system also supports "Turbo Boost 2.0" -- which "automatically increases the speed of the active cores" to improve performance when needed (up to 2.9 GHz for this model) -- and "Hyper Threading" -- which allows the system to recognize eight "virtual cores" or "threads."


so its actually a high clock speeds.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 22, 2012)

Ah, that explains a lot about why I am getting such good results.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 22, 2012)

What? The dual-core chip has eight cores?!

I'll have to look that up, but I don't believe it.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 22, 2012)

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> What? The dual-core chip has eight cores?!
> 
> I'll have to look that up, but I don't believe it.



4 real cores, 4 virtual cores.


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## JT3_Jon (Aug 22, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> JT3_Jon @ Tue Aug 21 said:
> 
> 
> > I thought you were a UAD guy Jay? How are you using your UAD plugins in your mixing DAW if it has not PCI slots? Thats the one thing that keeps me on a mac pro (that and multiple HD's for audio recording / project storage vs system)
> ...



So $1100 mini + $800 PCI adapter? Isn't that close to the price of a mac pro? What made you choose the mini instead?


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## Jack Weaver (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi Gerd,

FYI, I'm using the mulitport layer with VEP5 (along with other instances of Logics's multi-instruments). Been using since it's Beta period. 

Works fine. I've discussed this with Jay before and he thinks it's slower. I prefer it because the instances of VEP tend to pile up on processer #8 on my Mac Pro master machine. This way I can use fewer instances of vframes and still have tons and tons of instruments within my template. 

YMMV.

.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 22, 2012)

JT3_Jon @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Tue Aug 21 said:
> 
> 
> > JT3_Jon @ Tue Aug 21 said:
> ...



That is close to the price of a used older, slower Mac Pro with 16 GB, not one with comparable speed to the Mini server. A comparable one would be way more than $2000,

But the big deal for me is Thunderbolt, because that is the future of speedy throughput with Macs.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 22, 2012)

Jack Weaver @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> Hi Gerd,
> 
> FYI, I'm using the mulitport layer with VEP5 (along with other instances of Logics's multi-instruments). Been using since it's Beta period.
> 
> ...



From VSL:
"Unfortunately we have to confirm that Logic will internally drop MIDI events when using the Environment, which is something we are unable to work around. Of course we have informed the Apple developers about this bug.
Should you experience such issues, feel free to contact Apple support directly.

The more automation you use with the Multiport Environment, the worse it gets. Unfortunately. 

Sorry to have no better news. "


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## Gerd Kaeding (Aug 22, 2012)

Jack Weaver @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> Hi Gerd,
> 
> FYI, I'm using the mulitport layer with VEP5 (along with other instances of Logics's multi-instruments). Been using since it's Beta period.
> 
> ...



Hi Jack ,

thanks for the info !

With your info and Jay's info I'm now right in the middle of two beautiful women , totally unable to decide which one is more attractive to me ... ( ... I'm talking about the infos ... :mrgreen: ... )


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 22, 2012)

Gerd Kaeding @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> Jack Weaver @ Wed Aug 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Gerd,
> ...



Did you read my post directly above? I assume you use automation 

Oh, btw, here are pics of my VE Pro M-frames:


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## Gerd Kaeding (Aug 22, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> Did you read my post directly above? I assume you use automation




Ah , actually I didn't see your quote from VSL .
Well , then ... 

Thanks again.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 22, 2012)

I can tell you with absolutely confidence that neither Jack nor Jay is a beautiful woman.


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## Jack Weaver (Aug 22, 2012)

Personally, I resemble Nick's remark.

Back to the topic at hand, VSL has its own Automation Mapping within VEP5 (hit F5 and you can access it). You can select Sources that have MIDI Controllers or Parameters (up to 512 of them) and select Destinations (busses, inputs, FX, etc.). Personally, I never use this. Tried it a couple of times when it when Beta VEP5 first came out but felt more familiar and comfortable using Logic's automation. 

I prefer to use the regular old, track automation within Logic and it works just fine. 

My guess, and it is only that, is that VSL is referring to their own automation within VEP5. I work the bejeebers out of Logic's automation day and night. Absolutely no noticeable issues. 

.


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## Dracarys (Aug 22, 2012)

Good to hear that's always a relief.

I don't recommend a mac pro to anyone, what a waste of money for no good reason, and there are better alternatives.


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## Gerd Kaeding (Aug 22, 2012)

Jack Weaver @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> Personally, I resemble Nick's remark.
> 
> Back to the topic at hand, VSL has its own Automation Mapping within VEP5 (hit F5 and you can access it). You can select Sources that have MIDI Controllers or Parameters (up to 512 of them) and select Destinations (busses, inputs, FX, etc.). Personally, I never use this. Tried it a couple of times when it when Beta VEP5 first came out but felt more familiar and comfortable using Logic's automation.
> 
> ...



Jack , just out of interest : do you use a PC Slave or a Mac Slave ?
Maybe this is also a part of the equation ( ???) ...


And now I'm trying to find the word "bejeebers" in my dictionary


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## Jack Weaver (Aug 22, 2012)

I guess 'bejeebers' is a colloquialism. Probably archaic. :D 

I have a Mac master and a PC slave. 

HTH. 

.


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## gsilbers (Aug 22, 2012)

Casalena @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> Good to hear that's always a relief.
> 
> I don't recommend a mac pro to anyone, what a waste of money for no good reason, and there are better alternatives.



ive been using mine since 2009 and its been great. 2.66 8 core. 12gb of ram. 

but i wouldnt buy a new mac pro if i needed one just yet since supposly a new one will come out with thunderblt and other more up to date tech.


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## Mike Marino (Aug 22, 2012)

> 4 real cores, 4 virtual cores.



Does the i7 quad-core iMac work in the same fashion? Does it allow for virtual cores/hyper-threading, too?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 22, 2012)

Yup, it does.


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## azeteg (Aug 22, 2012)

In most setups the Multiport layer works fine. For very intense arrangements, the Logic environment sometimes hits an internal midi buffer and starts dropping events. This will happen even without the Multiport layer, but it is more noticeable with it, since a dropped event could mean a note-off gets sent to the wrong VEP port, causing a hanging note.

Apple did increase this internal midi buffer a bit in one of the latest releases, which improves the situation, but doesn't fix it fully.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 23, 2012)

azeteg @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> In most setups the Multiport layer works fine. For very intense arrangements, the Logic environment sometimes hits an internal midi buffer and starts dropping events. This will happen even without the Multiport layer, but it is more noticeable with it, since a dropped event could mean a note-off gets sent to the wrong VEP port, causing a hanging note.
> 
> Apple did increase this internal midi buffer a bit in one of the latest releases, which improves the situation, but doesn't fix it fully.



Yep.

The other argument agains the Multiport is that you have to use a lot of auxes to have discrete host-based cc7 automation and pan control, which if you are not using a lot of VSL inside their VI player is important, and sadly, all those auxes for the VE Pro instance get processed by 1 core only.

Also, it is WAY more flexible to have multiple v-frames to mix and match in m-frames as needed. That is what I missed most with the Multiport.

I was an early adopter of it and even wrote an article on it for MacPro Video's Hub, but I ended up moving away from it. 


And when Jack has Logic issues he calls ME, not vice-versa :twisted: (Love you, Jack)


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## Jack Weaver (Aug 23, 2012)

Hi,

Not wishing to appear ignorant or stubborn in the face of seeming developer nay-saying, it's necessary to say why multiport has worked so well for me - and continues to work well for me. 

When Multiport appeared I was facing two problems:
1. LASS keyswitched sections required 16 MIDI channels for each section (so 16 x 5)
2. On my Mac Pro, ver 3.1, 2008 8-core 3.2 GHz machine VEP instances (not VEP busses) were overloading core 8 within Logic. 

Now I have a small number of gigantic VEP5 instances (with lots of extra bussing into Logic for non-VSL instruments of MIR Pro and non-MIR Pro outputs). For example, I have all of my Hollywood Brass sections in one instance of VEP5 with separate outputs for MIR and non-MIR stems (MIR on HB would make a good topic for its own thread!). Same for Hollywood Strings. I have one large VEP instance with the five LASS keyswitched sections - all with MIR. And so on and so on...

There are some drawbacks I think - in that it seemed like it took me a long time to set this all up. I am more used to the typical Logic multiinstument way of doing things. Once I got everything figured out for LASS 2 I was good to go and have left it this way since it came out. When I ran out of MIDI busses in multiport I did resort to using Logic multiinstruments also. Like many others here, I have LTD (Large Template Disorder). 

However, I haven't had any issues with automation in Logic or issues that have caused anomalies within VEP5. As far as stuck MIDI notes within VEP5, etc., the only issue I've had with that is with Cinematic Strings 2 and that is pretty much a known issue for many people and is not a of artifact caused by Multiport. 

Do I recommend it? 
1. If you are using 16 MIDI channels for keyswitched LASS sections it's really handy. It doesn't inhibit anyone from using Logic's multiinstruments also. 
2.Do you want or need a few gigantic instances of VEP instead of a bunch of smaller ones? I have a pretty large PC slave for all of this - 12-core with 48GB of RAM and SSD's. 

It's been working really good. That's my experience. 

HTH

.


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## Frederick Russ (Aug 23, 2012)

I actually liked Jay's solution but I probably won't use mine as a daw for now. I have two Mac mini i7 quad servers used as slaves w ssds placed in the 2nd drive slot of each. Each mini does most of the heavy lifting and I'm still happy with my Mac Pro in 64 bit as the daw for the rest of the duties. Mini's throughput via sata3 alone trounces the MP.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 23, 2012)

Frederick Russ @ Thu Aug 23 said:


> I actually liked Jay's solution but I probably won't use mine as a daw for now. I have two Mac mini i7 quad servers used as slaves w ssds placed in the 2nd drive slot of each. Each mini does most of the heavy lifting and I'm still happy with my Mac Pro in 64 bit as the daw for the rest of the duties. Mini's throughput via sata3 alone trounces the MP.



I'm starting to think in a similar fashion-may I ask what heavy lifting, i.e. what's in your orch template?


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 23, 2012)

Jack Weaver @ Thu Aug 23 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Not wishing to appear ignorant or stubborn in the face of seeming developer nay-saying, it's necessary to say why multiport has worked so well for me - and continues to work well for me.
> 
> ...



I see. Your reasoning is sound, especially for LASS/Vienna Instruments users. I don't use either so for me it is different.


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## Frederick Russ (Aug 23, 2012)

NYC Composer @ Thu Aug 23 said:


> Frederick Russ @ Thu Aug 23 said:
> 
> 
> > I actually liked Jay's solution but I probably won't use mine as a daw for now. I have two Mac mini i7 quad servers used as slaves w ssds placed in the 2nd drive slot of each. Each mini does most of the heavy lifting and I'm still happy with my Mac Pro in 64 bit as the daw for the rest of the duties. Mini's throughput via sata3 alone trounces the MP.
> ...



Cinematic Strings, Orchestral String Runs, LA Scoring Strings, Cinesamples Brass, Adagio Violin, Symphobia 1 & 2. The rest is being handled on MP with VEPRO5 running concurrent to Logic 9.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 23, 2012)

Well, that would certainly take a good bit of strain off my MP. Hard to get as good latency specs on Cubase, though. Logic really has that down.


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## JPQ (Aug 27, 2012)

Some wrote here this goes hot any one other can confirm this ? if true i must think again (not first time actually third time wgen i use mac before this i have at least 5 times what needed carefully thinking) what i do with music hobby becouse i dont like hot and i bet even components in this computer maybe dont like hot and if hot needs more fan i bet and i also dont like fans... even maybe cheaper mac mini computers are suitable for me when i add 7200rpm Firewire harddrive (Another one and for samples) and add 8gigabytes ram. based how much PS True Strike 1,and kontakt factory library uses cpu here when soundcard buffers use value what i use which is 512,of course kontakt factory library goes high when all sounds use own convolution reverb but i dont need it this way one convolution reverb should be suitable whole tune i think. which is not too much to me i think i talk buffer size. and also cheaper mac minis are clearly cheaper what means i can upgrade my samplelibraries sooner.


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## JPQ (Aug 27, 2012)

Very weird geekbench have poorer results these chepaer mac minis what my currently owned mac mini has. but even weirder this page have numbers which says new is faster:
http://www.primatelabs.com/geekbench/Mac-benchmarks/
ps. i bet new is faster but still makes me think how is possible. and i get opposite ansver when i search geekbench results using few words like intel,i5 etc.


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## gsilbers (Aug 27, 2012)

Frederick Russ @ Thu Aug 23 said:


> NYC Composer @ Thu Aug 23 said:
> 
> 
> > Frederick Russ @ Thu Aug 23 said:
> ...



hey fredrick;

why did you go for cinematic strnigs instead of hollywood strings?


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