# SSO Mockup - "Dartmoor, 1912" from War Horse



## Karma (Jul 24, 2018)

Hello fellow MIDI tweakers, I'd like to share what I've been working on in my free time for the past couple of months. I recently purchased some John Williams scores and wanted to mockup something that to my knowledge hadn't been done before. It was definitely a challenging piece at times (tons of divisi and exposed parts), but overall I'm quite pleased with how it's turned out.

I had plenty of help with feedback and mix advice along the way, so big thanks to Jdiggity, Blake, Andy B, Paul, Farkle, Lawson, Ding and the rest for tolerating the relentless questions!





All of the libraries used are Spitfire:

Chamber Strings (layered with Solo Strings)
Symphonic Woodwinds
Symphonic Brass
Joby Burgess Percussion
Orchestral Grand
Skaila Kanga Harp

Dropbox link with the .wav https://www.dropbox.com/s/nsit6giggzg46ae/Dartmoor%201912%20-%20SSO%20Mockup%20-%20Final%20Master.wav?dl=0 (here).


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jul 24, 2018)

Excellent work Karma! 

I am sure this was not easy to pull off and you have done a great job at it. The only suggestion I have is to add some close mic into the mix or bring it up if its already on. The instruments need a little presence. Specially strings. 

From a programming point of view, I thought the woodwinds were not realistic in phrasing but that is because of how Spitfire woodwinds are. It is very difficult to work with the legatos and manage that massive hall in the back. It does have a good sound but very poor playability. 

Something like a VSL flute might give you better results on such a piece of music because it will sound more musical even at the cost of production aesthetic.


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## Karma (Jul 24, 2018)

Tanuj Tiku said:


> Excellent work Karma!
> 
> I am sure this was not easy to pull off and you have done a great job at it. The only suggestion I have is to add some close mic into the mix or bring it up if its already on. The instruments need a little presence. Specially strings.
> 
> ...


Thanks Tanuj! I'm a bit of a sucker for distance in samples which is why there isn't much close in there, although I did layer Solo Strings in the hope of adding a bit more detail. The mix in general is actually based on a live performance from the John Williams Prom in 2017. If you compare that to the soundtrack it's quite a significant difference in terms of balance!


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## desert (Jul 24, 2018)

Absolutely stunning. You have the ability to extract emotion out of those samples, my favourite part being 4:57 onwards. Impressive balancing throughout, this deserves to be a demo on Spitfire!


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jul 24, 2018)

Karma said:


> Thanks Tanuj! I'm a bit of a sucker for distance in samples which is why there isn't much close in there, although I did layer Solo Strings in the hope of adding a bit more detail. The mix in general is actually based on a live performance from the John Williams Prom in 2017. If you compare that to the soundtrack it's quite a significant difference in terms of balance!



Aahh, yes the original soundtrack has great presence over all, specially with the strings and I am probably biased with the original score performance. The agility of the strings compostionally really works well in that recording context. I am sure that a different performance sounds a certain way. 

Nonetheless, you have done a really great job! You absolutely captured the spirit of the music very well!


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## Karma (Jul 24, 2018)

Tanuj Tiku said:


> Aahh, yes the original soundtrack has great presence over all, specially with the strings and I am probably biased with the original score performance. The agility of the strings compostionally really works well in that recording context. I am sure that a different performance sounds a certain way.
> 
> Nonetheless, you have done a really great job! You absolutely captured the spirit of the music very well!


I'd post the recording here but I'm not actually sure if that's technically allowed... the BBC are pretty strict with their Prom stuff! Thanks a lot for your comments!


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## EBicks (Jul 24, 2018)

Sounds incredible man. It's cool to see the emotion you were able to get out of those samples!


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## chillbot (Jul 24, 2018)

Strings are not very warbly.


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## CT (Jul 24, 2018)




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## Paul Cardon (Jul 24, 2018)

Proud of you, bby. Was so cool seeing this mockup go from its beginnings to where it is today.


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## StevenMcDonald (Jul 24, 2018)

I know I did nothing but hassle you through the entire process, but this is impressive as hell. Good work! Glad to see it finally came together. You will soon join the mockup hall of fame.


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## muk (Jul 24, 2018)

Amazing work, very well done! Must have been a lot of work, but I bet you learned a lot as well while working on it. Keep it up.


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## DMDComposer (Jul 24, 2018)

Great work. I love this score so much. It's nothing new that J.W. hasn't done or said before, but its such a beautiful score and just great to listen to. A master working his craft.


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## Farkle (Jul 24, 2018)

Karma, what I really like about this cue that you mocked up (and I think you really got there in so much of it), was that you paid such close attention to the musical performance of each line; everything really feels like it's being delivered with energy and expression; the mix is definitely top end, the spatial placement of the orchestra is superb, and the articulations balance really well. But you know me, I'm all about selling the line, the energy, and your parts really sound musical.

Great job, brother. Spot on!

Mike


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## Blakus (Jul 24, 2018)

Nice job with this, Karma. That is one hell of a big job, can't believe you did the entire 7mins! Looking forward to the next one


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## rainierjmartin (Jul 24, 2018)

Fantastic job! I am just wondering what mic mix you used because the spatial placement is top notch. Keep it up!


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## Karma (Jul 25, 2018)

rainierjmartin said:


> Fantastic job! I am just wondering what mic mix you used because the spatial placement is top notch. Keep it up!


Thanks a lot! This is all mainly Outriggers and Ambient mics. As for the imaging/placement, I actually narrow the stereo images of certain signals a little bit (I think the woodwinds in particular benefit a lot from this). A nice thing about the Spitfire interface is that you can collapse/expand and pan specific signals right there, so I just used that. A little bit of panning to 'enhance' is nice too, as long as it's not on the roomiest mics!


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## rainierjmartin (Jul 25, 2018)

Karma said:


> Thanks a lot! This is all mainly Outriggers and Ambient mics. As for the imaging/placement, I actually narrow the stereo images of certain signals a little bit (I think the woodwinds in particular benefit a lot from this). A nice thing about the Spitfire interface is that you can collapse/expand and pan specific signals right there, so I just used that. A little bit of panning to 'enhance' is nice too, as long as it's not on the roomiest mics!


Thanks! Do you think the tree mics can be a useful substitute for the outriggers in your combination?


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## sinkd (Jul 25, 2018)

Excellent work. I would say that the only slight weakness is in the overall effect of the strings. Woodwind and brasses were pretty stunning, actually.


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## CT (Jul 25, 2018)

Yeah, I'd be interested to hear it with SSS for any unison string parts and SCS reserved for divisi simulation.

It's still fantastic, though. I really need to scrape together about $1700....


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## Karma (Jul 26, 2018)

miket said:


> Yeah, I'd be interested to hear it with SSS for any unison string parts and SCS reserved for divisi simulation.
> 
> It's still fantastic, though. I really need to scrape together about $1700....


Ah yes, using SSS for the unison lines was something I was thinking about doing too... I just never did. I agree, it would probably be more fitting!


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## Andy B (Jul 26, 2018)

Really lovely. It was great to hear the mock-up evolving over the weeks with all of the hard work you put in.:emoji_wrench:


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## Karma (Jul 26, 2018)

Andy B said:


> Really lovely. It was great to hear the mock-up evolving over the weeks with all of the hard work you put in.:emoji_wrench:


Thanks Andy, really appreciated the feedback along the way!


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## desert (Jul 26, 2018)

Karma said:


> Thanks Andy, really appreciated the feedback along the way!


What were his tips?


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## Karma (Jul 26, 2018)

desert said:


> What were his tips?


Mainly letting me know where it's not as convincing . Which is what everyone else would tell me also!


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## desert (Jul 26, 2018)

Karma said:


> Mainly letting me know where it's not as convincing . Which is what everyone else would tell me also!


I hope it was like the karate kid. “This isn’t good enough, get out of my dojo!!”


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## novaburst (Jul 26, 2018)

Huge piece and dedication to music, captured the depth and low end beautifully, thanks for posting


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## Cass Hansen (Jul 26, 2018)

Exemplary! One of the best rendered tracks I’ve heard here. Amazing depth. Love all your attention to detail for each instrument: expression, articulations, dynamics, vibrato, phrasing, etc. ; I can even feel the woodwinds and brass breathing between phrases; It sounds so “live”! Can’t imagine the hours and hours of work, but it paid off!

I was about to give up focusing on rendering (which is definitely not my forte) and decided just to concentrate on composing and writing scores instead. But hearing this makes me rethink that.

I see on one of your latter posts that you used primarily outriggers and ambient mics, which was one of my questions. If you don’t mind sharing, I’d really be interested in knowing if you use any additional reverb plugin on this or just used the mic mixes and what kind of topnotch mastering plugins ( if any) you might of inserted on the main stereo out. It sounds so rich and spacious without losing any clarity. I don’t hear that combo very often.

Blown away by this. Can’t wait to hear your next track! Thanks for sharing.

Cass


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## monsieurmickey (Jul 26, 2018)

Beautiful work, congratulations!


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## Karma (Jul 27, 2018)

Cass Hansen said:


> I see on one of your latter posts that you used primarily outriggers and ambient mics, which was one of my questions. If you don’t mind sharing, I’d really be interested in knowing if you use any additional reverb plugin on this or just used the mic mixes and what kind of topnotch mastering plugins ( if any) you might of inserted on the main stereo out. It sounds so rich and spacious without losing any clarity. I don’t hear that combo very often.


Hey Cass, thanks for your kind comment! There is indeed reverb on this, although it's quite subtle (as was anything done in the mastering stage). I think the most important thing is finding a good balance in the mockup itself, and from this most of the other things will often fall into place. I'm debating doing a DAWcast for this at some point, although I'm not too certain how to approach it just now!


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## Cass Hansen (Jul 27, 2018)

Karma said:


> Hey Cass, thanks for your kind comment! There is indeed reverb on this, although it's quite subtle (as was anything done in the mastering stage). I think the most important thing is finding a good balance in the mockup itself, and from this most of the other things will often fall into place. I'm debating doing a DAWcast for this at some point, although I'm not too certain how to approach it just now!


Doing a DAWcast would be absolutely fantastico! I realize it takes a lot of time to setup though. Doesn't have to be a polished video event however, just grab a free video capture software(like Bandicam) and film the screen while clicking on editors and tracks in your DAW. If want to add subtext though in balloon boxes, that takes longer. A few people have done quick DAWcasts here. Might contact them.
Thanks for the advise on doing good thorough mockup BALANCING. Will have at it!


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## Lawson. (Jul 27, 2018)

Freakin' AWESOME, man!! By far one of the best mockups I've heard posted on here. Great job!


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## Jdiggity1 (Jul 28, 2018)

Lawson. said:


> Freakin' AWESOME, man!! By far one of the best mockups I've heard posted on here. Great job!


And yet you're still an OT fanboy...


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## rlw (Jul 29, 2018)

Well done. Was quite convincing and a joy to listen to.


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## Karma (Nov 15, 2018)

Sorry for the very late bump here, but I've uploaded a rather shoddy attempt at a DAWCast. A few people asked for it, so hopefully it's at least helpful in some way.



Apologies for the lack of CC data in the Strings - there's so much damn info in there that it was lagging, so I ended up removing some.


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## Cass Hansen (Nov 22, 2018)

Karma,

Thanks for the DAWCast. I found it very useful especially since I've been having problems coming up with a good template that works, being fairly new at orchestral rendering.

Couple quick questions, I see you have violin 1 divided into player 1,2,3 which I'm guessing is for all the divisi in this piece. When the violins play unison and since you're using SCS, are you doing the transposing trick to avoid phasing, or are you thickening one violin line by some other means. And what is your [M] [L] designation mean for the various WW/Brass instruments. Thanks
Cass


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## Karma (Nov 22, 2018)

Cass Hansen said:


> Karma,
> 
> Thanks for the DAWCast. I found it very useful especially since I've been having problems coming up with a good template that works, being fairly new at orchestral rendering.
> 
> ...


Hey Cass! Thanks - glad it was tolerable!

I had a pretty weird 'rule' as there was so much divisi in this. Any time the section splits I would bring each instance down around 3-4dB. Whenever it was a single line (suchas the unison parts) it was always at the default dB. I hope that makes sense! I never actually doubled up the patches unless it was required by divisi. So for example...

No divisi = 0db
2 part divisi = -3/4dB
3 part divisi = -6/8dB

Etc... etc! Never needed the transposition trick as the lines were never close enough to cause phasing issues


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Nov 23, 2018)

Karma, 
Great job! Could you share midi please?


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## Cass Hansen (Nov 23, 2018)

Thanks Karma for the feedback, makes perfect sense and the results couldn't have been better for using a non-divisi library for lots of divisi. Great job!


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## Paul T McGraw (Nov 24, 2018)

@Karma Thank you for your DAWcast. You did a wonderful job with this. I own the Spitfire Orchestra and have enjoyed it. My personal favorite component is the Spitfire Symphonic Strings. Wouldn't the SSS have been a better choice than the SCS for this piece?

Also, what mic mix did you use?

Once again, congratulations. You did a marvelous job.


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## Karma (Nov 24, 2018)

Paul T McGraw said:


> @KarmaWouldn't the SSS have been a better choice than the SCS for this piece?
> 
> Also, what mic mix did you use?


Thanks a lot Paul. I really should have taken the time to use SSS, I think that the unison parts could have certainly benefitted! The microphone mix is almost all Ambient & Outriggers. 

I also just compared the SoundCloud link to the WAV... So instead I've now added the Dropbox link with the WAV https://www.dropbox.com/s/nsit6giggzg46ae/Dartmoor%201912%20-%20SSO%20Mockup%20-%20Final%20Master.wav?dl=0 (here).


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## CT (Nov 24, 2018)

Thanks for sharing the original audio. It's even more breathtaking.


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## AdamAlake (Nov 24, 2018)

Yes, yes, well done, Karma. Well done, Karma. HOWEVER ... the strings could be a bit more _furry_.


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## Karma (Nov 25, 2018)

miket said:


> Thanks for sharing the original audio. It's even more breathtaking.


Thanks Mike. Comparing it to the SoundCloud version was a little disheartening


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## CT (Nov 25, 2018)

Big part of why I stopped using SoundCloud!


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