# Sample Modeling Strings playing Lord of the Rings by Howard Shore.



## Leandro Gardini (Sep 4, 2019)

I am happy to announce the release of the first episode "Taking Your Strings to the Next Level."

Taking Your Strings to the Next Level is a series of short videos where I will share how to improve your string mockups using the new Sample Modeling Solo & Ensemble strings.
I carefully chose some of the most difficult pieces of music to mockup and put them into four episodes. The first one playing the Beethoven's 5th Symphony can be seen here.



If you want to read the full article click on the following link of Gardini School Blog.









Taking Your Strings to the Next Level ep.1


Learn how to improve your midi mockups by using the Sample Modeling strings. Learn more!




www.gardinischool.com





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The second episode is up and running now. This time I've made a mockup of Mozart's Symphony no.40.



If you want to read the full article click on the following link of Gardini School Blog.








Taking Your Strings to the Next Level ep.2


Learn now how to produce realistic midi orchestration using different sample libraries. Learn more!




www.gardinischool.com





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This is the mockup of a cue from Gladiator score by Hans Zimmer.
Patricide was a big challenge because of the many different characteristics of the strings.
70% to 80% of the strings are Sample Modeling.
The new tutorial about this mockup is coming soon.



Let me know your impressions!

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The 3rd episode of the series is finally out!

This time let's see how we can achieve the minimum and the maximum of drama with virtual strings.
The chosen piece, as above, is the Gladiator score by Hans Zimmer.



To read and watch the full article click on the following link.








Taking Your Strings to the Next Level ep.3


Make you midi sound real. Improve your string realism using Sample Modeling Strings. Learn more!




www.gardinischool.com





For more free tutorials don't forget to subscribe to my Youtube channel and the Gardini School newsletter.

.......................................
The 4th and last mockup of Taking Your Strings to the Next Level is finally out.

This time I thought it would be very instructive to work on another film music that has some beautiful melodies and is a big challenge for any midi orchestrator.
The music of Lord of the Rings was the chosen one.



Stay tuned, the tutorial of how I programmed this music is coming soon.
.......................................

I am happy to announce the release of the 4th and last episode of our acclaimed series Taking Your Strings to the Next Level.

Now it is time to work on a realistic mockup of Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Seriously, if you wish to improve your string programming like never before, you should study this free tutorial and all the previous ones, if you haven't done so yet. You simply can't miss these materials!
I believe there's no teaching about midi mockups that is so detailed and deep as Scoring Tools Masterclass.
I put in this course everything that I know about midi orchestration. Therefore, next time, don't ask me which library I use, but instead, ask me how I use them.









The New Sample Modeling Solo & Ensemble Strings playing Lord of the Rings by Howard Shore


This video is the 4th and last part of the series Taking Your Strings to the Next Level where I teach how you can improve your mockups (midi orchestration) b...




www.youtube.com





Let me know your impressions.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 4, 2019)

Not nice to come back and see no comments. Bump anyway!


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## Bluemount Score (Sep 5, 2019)

Saved in „Watch later“ for now. I‘m curious


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## Montisquirrel (Sep 5, 2019)

Loved the beginning, got really exited hearing that Beethoven Demo, but I stopped after you said that this tutorial is about Sample Modelling Strings, which I dont have (which I would like to have, but can't afford right now). Anyway, I guess people with that software can learn a lot, because that 5th Symphonie Mockup really sounds very very good.


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## axb312 (Sep 5, 2019)

Montisquirrel said:


> Loved the beginning, got really exited hearing that Beethoven Demo, but I stopped after you said that this tutorial is about Sample Modelling Strings, which I dont have (which I would like to have, but can't afford right now). Anyway, I guess people with that software can learn a lot, because that 5th Symphonie Mockup really sounds very very good.



Thanks for the heads up.


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## Jonathan Moray (Sep 5, 2019)

This sounds _really _good. The strings have nice expression and are obviously very versatile. I've always found that you have to sacrifice sound for versatility with a lot of these types of libraries. But I don't really see that being the case here.

This is also the first I hear from the Cello and Basses in isolation and they sound good as well. 

I guess the Brass is SM Brass? At least it sounds like it.
I can't figure what Woodwinds your using? Audio Modeling?


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## ltmusic (Sep 5, 2019)

Very good!!!
How do you compere to other string libraries ?


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## Parsifal666 (Sep 5, 2019)

Doesn't necessarily take a video; just conscientiously follow the initials: *RTFM!*


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## Gerbil (Sep 5, 2019)

Lots of really good advice re programming SM libraries. 

This is my dilemma, and it's not aimed specifically at your video - I've struggled with this problem many times before after hours of work with SM libraries: I'd never choose to listen to this as a finished piece for pleasure. 

As a demo to play to someone else then yes, it's very good. But using the notation software of your choice with Noteperformer will yield results not a million miles away from this and be much, much quicker to achieve, assuming the composer reads notation. Sure, the expression wont be as compelling but it is enough to give a decent impression so why bother with all the programming? Either it sounds like the finished product or just use noteperformer.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 5, 2019)

I just didn’t like the sound of those strings, especially the vibrato.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 5, 2019)

Jonathan Moray said:


> This sounds _really _good. The strings have nice expression and are obviously very versatile. I've always found that you have to sacrifice sound for versatility with a lot of these types of libraries. But I don't really see that being the case here.
> 
> This is also the first I hear from the Cello and Basses in isolation and they sound good as well.
> 
> ...


It is indeed a versatile library with a very good sound. The other sections are Infinite Series.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 5, 2019)

ltmusic said:


> Very good!!!
> How do you compere to other string libraries ?


I don't think there is any other library that can "perform" the 5th symphony like Sample Modeling.
Every other sample library has its all fingerprint no matter how you customize it. I am amazed by how you can shape and change the expression of Sample Modeling. In the end, this is your sound on the library and not the library in your sound.


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## Jonathan Moray (Sep 5, 2019)

leogardini said:


> It is indeed a versatile library with a very good sound. The other sections are Infinite Series.



Hope you'll do a video on those in the future. They sound great together.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 5, 2019)

Gerbil said:


> Lots of really good advice re programming SM libraries.
> 
> This is my dilemma, and it's not aimed specifically at your video - I've struggled with this problem many times before after hours of work with SM libraries: I'd never choose to listen to this as a finished piece for pleasure.
> 
> As a demo to play to someone else then yes, it's very good. But using the notation software of your choice with Noteperformer will yield results not a million miles away from this and be much, much quicker to achieve, assuming the composer reads notation. Sure, the expression wont be as compelling but it is enough to give a decent impression so why bother with all the programming? Either it sounds like the finished product or just use noteperformer.


These are all different approaches that provide us different results. I've never used any notation software to program samples but I've seen some good results. However, in my opinion, if you what to achieve the best results you have to use the notation software to what it has been designed for.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 5, 2019)

Jonathan Moray said:


> Hope you'll do a video on those in the future. They sound great together.


Sure, I can do that if there is interest of more people.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 5, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> I just didn’t like the sound of those strings, especially the vibrato.


I can take the blame. This library is so versatile that if anything goes wrong the problem is in the usage and not in the instrument (at least in the majority of cases). However, I don't think you would dislike it if you didn't know it was midi.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Sep 5, 2019)

Hej Leandro,

cool video and great that you are explaining techniques for the next level of string realism. But I am not quite stoked about the result with that mockup...:( unfortunately because I think you put quite some work in there. And it is indeed a hard piece but I doubt that its only possible with sample modeling. Actually I don´t think the sound of that strings in that context is doing that composition a favor..they simply sound super fake .I mean, thats not aimed at you, but in that regards I am on Jays side with that. Especially those dadada dahhh..left to be desired...The fluidity of the lines is great, no doubt about that, but the sonic apperance is total fake, I am sorry. Just my opinion of course.

I mean..thats a quick take done with other libraries and what I miss on the sm in particular is that aggressivness and ommpf. You know? When the cellos with DB and Violas build that melange of "unity". I am not sure if you could tweak your strings quite a bit? Also..I mean that is matter of taste but I find the entrance somehow a way too slow. But sure..there are tons of different interpretations out there, so that it is surely up to taste. And I am 100 percent sure that with enough work you could mockup that piece with other libraries too which I believe would in the end sound better..from a "macro" perspective speaking.









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## Ashermusic (Sep 5, 2019)

leogardini said:


> I can take the blame. This library is so versatile that if anything goes wrong the problem is in the usage and not in the instrument (at least in the majority of cases). However, I don't think you would dislike it if you didn't know it was midi.



No, I would dislike it if it was real also, but despite your prodigious skill set, it would not fool anyone who has experience with real strings.


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## Parsifal666 (Sep 5, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> No, I would dislike it if it was real also, but despite your prodigious skill set, it would not fool anyone who has experience with real strings.



Jay just said what was on my mind. 

No disrespect meant, it's not a bad video at all imo. I didn't have a problem with it before the proclamations of it sounding authentic came up.

Not here. Too many ears with too many miles.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 5, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> Jay just said what was on my mind.
> 
> No disrespect meant, it's not a bad video at all imo. I didn't have a problem with it before the proclamations of it sounding authentic came up.
> 
> Not here. Too many ears with too many miles.




That said, let me reiterate my utter and total respect for Leo. He is a very, very talented and skilled composer.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 5, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> No, I would dislike it if it was real also, but despite your prodigious skill set, it would not fool anyone who has experience with real strings.


Jay, no offense taken, but maybe you are right and those string players that I have shown are not paying close attention to the mockup because none of them so far got suspicious it was a virtual orchestra. A question that I have received from them was "where was this recording?"
Virtual instruments will always have a long way to go until they sound like a talented musician, however, I have the impression that the modern composers, that usually spent much more time in front of the computers than in front of a real orchestra, are losing the perspective of reality.
Today is much easier to know how we would like an instrument to sound than how it really sounds.
I respect your opinion about the sound of this library and I believe you know how the real strings sound, but saying that it would not fool ANYONE who has experience with real strings is too much, otherwise I have to deal with better musicians because it has fooled some of them.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 5, 2019)

leogardini said:


> Jay, no offense taken, but maybe you are right and those string players that I have shown are not paying close attention to the mockup because none of them so far got suspicious it was a virtual orchestra. A question that I have received from them was "where was this recording?"
> Virtual instruments will always have a long way to go until they sound like a talented musician, however, I have the impression that the modern composers, that usually spent much more time in front of the computers than in front of a real orchestra, are losing the perspective of reality.
> Today is much easier to know how we would like an instrument to sound than how it really sounds.
> I respect your opinion about the sound of this library and I believe you know how the real strings sound, but saying that it would not fool ANYONE who has experience with real strings is too much, otherwise I have to deal with better musicians because it has fooled some of them.



Admittedly, it's subjective Leo.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 5, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hej Leandro,
> 
> cool video and great that you are explaining techniques for the next level of string realism. But I am not quite stoked about the result with that mockup...:( unfortunately because I think you put quite some work in there. And it is indeed a hard piece but I doubt that its only possible with sample modeling. Actually I don´t think the sound of that strings in that context is doing that composition a favor..they simply sound super fake .I mean, thats not aimed at you, but in that regards I am on Jays side with that. Especially those dadada dahhh..left to be desired...The fluidity of the lines is great, no doubt about that, but the sonic apperance is total fake, I am sorry. Just my opinion of course.
> 
> ...


I had the Barenboim's interpretation as a model for this.


Thanks for sharing your quick mockup. It sounds good and illustrates what I have just written above.
We may like or dislike whatever sound we hear. We may have our "ideal sound" for strings but we should never lose perspective of the real thing.
Sure we can pull off some good sounding strings out of the box with most modern sample libraries (you've just demonstrated it) but will they sound performed or sequenced?
To me, your version sounds good and sequenced and on that matter, this is what will never fool the ear of a real player. With a little care on the programming, SM can sound good and performed and this is basically the essence of what I am showing in the tutorial.
We are being dominated by computer music and the result is really intriguing.


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## Fa (Sep 5, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> I just didn’t like the sound of those strings, especially the vibrato.


I would be very surprised if you were liking it... it's not by East West


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## Fa (Sep 5, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hej Leandro,
> 
> cool video and great that you are explaining techniques for the next level of string realism. But I am not quite stoked about the result with that mockup...:( unfortunately because I think you put quite some work in there. And it is indeed a hard piece but I doubt that its only possible with sample modeling. Actually I don´t think the sound of that strings in that context is doing that composition a favor..they simply sound super fake .I mean, thats not aimed at you, but in that regards I am on Jays side with that. Especially those dadada dahhh..left to be desired...The fluidity of the lines is great, no doubt about that, but the sonic apperance is total fake, I am sorry. Just my opinion of course.
> 
> ...



I'm very sorry, but even if I respect your opinion, and probably you are right about the fact that with lot of work you may get good results with existing libraries, I don't think that the example you posted is supporting your statements at all. In my opinion it supports the opposite: listening to it beside Leo's work, it makes your clip sound super fake, and Leo's super performed.

Sorry again, it's not just a matter of taste and subjective preference: in your sequence is so evident and disturbing the transition between so different "badly-glued" articulations, that despite the excellent recording of the original strings, the result is terrible (like a patchwork of disconnected notes reassembled some how...). No offense intended to you, really, just a pure technical and musical consideration, and personal opinion.

EDIT: just to avoid misunderstandings: I think your first 3 notes are fantastic, sound like a real recording (well actually good samples are real recordings BTW). The problem starts when cross fadings or volume changes are engaged, and phrasing new articulations arrive... the whole magic pops and disappear.


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## Fa (Sep 5, 2019)

Great video, and impressive mock-up Leo.

Yes I agree that there's still something to refine with SM Strings sound here and there, but as you also say, the flexibility and musicality of the SM Strings is outstanding, and you exposed it naked and clear in the tutorial. Chapeau!


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## NoamL (Sep 5, 2019)

In my opinion only:* musical expressiveness is not why cues get approved.*

And so I don't really care which sample libraries get closest to a Beethoven symphony.

To make the point in an absurd way -



One of the best musicians in the world, one of the most expensive instruments in the world, definitely live, nothing feels musically fake, yet, this recording could never be placed in a film.

It would drag the film down, be distracting, and make the film feel cheap.

Composers are music producers. There is still an artistic dimension to what they do, but overall, the composer is the head of a postproduction department trying to keep up their end of the film. If the score drags the film down, distracts the audience, or makes the film feel cheap, the composer gets fired.

HZ said in an interview somewhere that his music "doesn't tell the audience what to feel, it announces to you that you can feel something." If you read into that liberally (and maybe a little cynically), it's almost like he's saying the point of music is to convince the audience that the film is a big deal. This strategy would put music hand in hand with every other postproduction element that makes a modern film a larger than life experience. Score accentuates that cinematic experience, the difference between driving to the grocery store and riding a roller coaster.

It's why the scenes of a film that are furthest from every day life are most likely to be spotted for score, and this is true across every era of film history, across every major composer, across every genre of film. It's why the scene where Quint interrupts the town hall meeting doesn't get score, but the scene where Brody looks at the shark book gets underscore, and then the "bigger boat" scene where the three men first spot the shark gets an even greater musical statement...

Think about those organ chords that happen 3 or 4 times in _Interstellar_. They aren't musically impressive in the slightest - it's just a chord. But cinematically, very impactful, impressive or whatever word you want to use. You get a real experience of a massive machine pushing a massive amount of air. And this is what is necessary for those 3 or 4 points in the film. One of them that I recall is when the ship transitions across the wormhole into the other star system. The music has to live up to this extraordinary event, it has to "announce to you that you can feel something." This is the consideration from the composer's POV, not whether whatever music is happening there is "art."

"What feels cheap" is subjective and contingent of course. Music in stereo was fine for decades, now we practically all have to produce music in surround, and eventually we will all have to join the big guys who have already moved to Atmos.

This is why I'm not fussed about which library is the best at doing combinations of short and long notes. In the end, if I'm writing music with samples and the samples will be in the final product, my concern is how the music will be received *as an element of postproduction.* This is my objection to sample modeling. Even in the hands of people who clearly know how to use it... I'm not feeling it in a cinematic, impactful, impressive way.

Once I got chewed out by a director. I had written music for a scene and the director disliked it. He told me words to this effect: "This shot was very difficult to achieve. We had to use a special rig for the camera. We had to get the shot at a certain time of day. The actors had to do many takes to get it right. Finally, we got the shot I wanted. And you put this music on it?!"  That made it very clear to me what my job was!


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## Fa (Sep 5, 2019)

NoamL said:


> In my opinion only:* musical expressiveness is not why cues get approved.*
> 
> And so I don't really care which sample libraries get closest to a Beethoven symphony.
> 
> ...




Very interesting post indeed. I agree with almost every word you wrote, with just 2 remarks from my very personal point of view:

- "have a cue approved" is a luxury for few professional composers, while the industry is selling to a whole world of academic, jazz, pop, experimental composers, songwriters, students, teachers, amateurs, MIDIcurious etc. There's not only the cinematic-impactful meter for products.

- there is plenty of cinematic tools on the market, do we need more? There's so little offer of musically expressive instrument instead and space for improvement, but... you should be surprised by the unexpected amount of cinematic potential that SM Strings offers (mostly with the solos and small ensemble features). Try yourself, or just wait, and somebody will show it.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 5, 2019)

Fa said:


> I would be very surprised if you were liking it... it's not by East West



Not true, I also love CSS, not by EW, and Venice Modern Strings, not by EW, and the strings in Kirk Hunter Virtuoso Ensembles and how Concert Strings 2, not by EW.


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## novaburst (Sep 5, 2019)

leogardini said:


> We are being dominated by computer music and the result is really intriguing.



This video is very nice, and i can hear the texture very clearly,

In essence as long as I am not in that concert hall in real life this video in effect is only a sample of the performances of what listener's heard the day of the performance in real life. 

So if I was let's say at Orchestral tools and they were doing a sample library , let's say a new string library if I was there in real life am I not hearing the real musicians performing, using real instruments, so as long as I am present its real life, but when I purchase the library recording it becomes a sample. 

Because when you realise and think about it sample libraries are real life performances that have been recorded and really no difference from the utube video which is a recording of a performance. 

While we like to play down the computer music especially when it comes to orchestral please remember they are live performances. 

And in the right hands can trick the ears both in sound and skill. 

All in all I don't even believe its about tricking the ears any more its just about your music and the sound you want to interpret because the cumputer allows you to do that and also superimpose. 

It's not that we have forgotten what the real orhcestral sounds like, it's that the live recordings have been boxed in sample and you can do what ever you want with it to the very point where computer orchestral is finding is
Its way in big block buster movie's performing along live musians. 

It's not about forgetting the live performances it's about accepting the new cumputer talent of our times because you may say it's not real it's not real but what is real is the music that comes from the heart and that's what counts, that's what touches.

This may not be your cup of tea but listen to the way this Composer find emotional vibes his music

Does it matter if its cumputer music or real i think this guy got his message across.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 5, 2019)

Fa said:


> Great video, and impressive mock-up Leo.
> 
> Yes I agree that there's still something to refine with SM Strings sound here and there, but as you also say, the flexibility and musicality of the SM Strings is outstanding, and you exposed it naked and clear in the tutorial. Chapeau!


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## Ashermusic (Sep 5, 2019)

novaburst said:


> Because when you realise and think about it sample libraries are real life performances that have been recorded and really no difference from the utube video which is a recording of a performance.



No, no, no, there is a _huge_ difference between a performance of a whole piece, or section, or hell even a line, with them listening and reacting emotionally to each other and them playing together one note at a time on an articulation.

That's what get lost in the samples, emotion. Some sample libraries do somehow manage a _little_ more simulation of emotion than others. CSS for example. 

But for me, while Samplemodeling may perhaps be able to most accurately capture specific articulations that leads Leo to view them as "next level", their libraries always sound clinical and unemotional to me.

But it's subjective and I am not the sample library police so I am done


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## NYC Composer (Sep 5, 2019)

Thank you for clarifying that, Officer.


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## DANIELE (Sep 6, 2019)

leogardini said:


> It is indeed a versatile library with a very good sound. The other sections are Infinite Series.



I think (and I hope) that with AV IS we could have an almost complete set of flexible/playable/truly musical libraries. I hope that future updates of SM Strings and the new AV IS will fill the gap that is still present.

Anyway, after working with those libraries, I cannot work with older ones anymore. The only thing I could say is that I hope that more producers go that way and stop making old style sample libraries.

I remember I tried to do a mockup of the Star Wars intro fanfare a long time ago, for learning purposes, and it takes me hours to make few measures because I have to carefully choose articulations every two notes.

Then maybe the lazyness takes us to use only sustains (legatos) and spiccatos/staccatos.


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## novaburst (Sep 6, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> No, no, no, there is a _huge_ difference between a performance of a whole piece, or section, or hell even a line, with them listening and reacting emotionally to each other and them playing together one note at a time on an articulation.



Yes and this will come up time and time again, but you may deny it but i certainly can't deny that there are some even on this forum that can connect those sample fragments and bites and pieces of sample notes and put them together to make a wonderful piece of music that has feel and emotions.

If I told you to brake that window, weather you used a football to brake it or a brick the point is the job got done. 

So because you used a brick am i not going to like it the point was to brake the window not how you brake it. 

From pop EDM, indi sound tracks, and orhcestral, sample library's are being listened to on a professional level, why not because it's better than real life music, it's because it is music, different... Yes but it is still music and it's good music and it has very much been welcomed


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## Fa (Sep 6, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Not true, I also love CSS, not by EW, and Venice Modern Strings, not by EW, and the strings in Kirk Hunter Virtuoso Ensembles and how Concert Strings 2, not by EW.


Just joking @Ashermusic 
Actually I share several of your preferences (including EW), but I also like SM Strings, mostly due to the unique set of features I was dreaming of for years.


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## lux (Sep 6, 2019)

Nice and informative video Leo, lots of good infos and concepts easily explained. Watching the video I basically had the impression of a strict similarity in approach, from a composer point of view, with the classic Wallander Brass (well, there was Synful before all of them, but maybe it was a bit of an early stage for this king of tecnology, although still a piece of genius). What I love of this kind of approach is the ability to concentrate on dynamics and techniques within a single midi line without adding keyswitches and stuff. Sounds like freedom to me. Yes, the tone has a bit of an artificial feel at times (I for one felt that more on long notes and legatos than on shorts/marcatos, expecially on transitions). Still your examples are nice and explain the point and the power of being able to take care of small interpretation bits and dynamics with little or no effort.

Funny thing is that, while the tone of many sampled libraries at a time was great, I remember I had quite a few tracks made with Wallander picked, in alternative to those with sampled brass, by people in the biz as they sounded more "live played" to them. That applied to classic fanfare or more traditionally orchestrated songs, of course. When it comes to hybrid or modern scoring that's another story and tone makes the difference, no matter what.

Thanks for sharing the video Leo and keep em comin.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 6, 2019)

NoamL said:


> In my opinion only:* musical expressiveness is not why cues get approved.*
> 
> And so I don't really care which sample libraries get closest to a Beethoven symphony.
> 
> ...



I tend to agree with almost all your remarks but you didn't consider one thing - Beethoven didn't care about his music placed on a movie.
You may not give importance to how customizable a library is and I guess this is the approach of many today. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it except for that fact that customization is the effort that all sample developers have been looking for and this is due to the basic nature of every artist which is self-expression. This demand will always be there.
We want to sound like ourselves and not as a library and on this matter, I don't think any other library other than SM can make it better.
If you don't see SM strings placed on a cinematic and impressive way it's because you didn't have enough experience with it yet. From my experience, these strings brought us a new level of possibilities that is taken for granted and hopefully will just take time to prove how important bowing is (for example) other than "spiccato and long notes" music (with all respect to the fine music like this).
I think it's more important to care about what I can musically do with the library than what the library can do for my music.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 6, 2019)

novaburst said:


> This video is very nice, and i can hear the texture very clearly,
> 
> In essence as long as I am not in that concert hall in real life this video in effect is only a sample of the performances of what listener's heard the day of the performance in real life.
> 
> ...



I got you and I agree. Realism is not a must in all situations and in some others it is not even welcome. However, when a composer that lived more than 200 years ago wrote a master-piece for an orchestra and wasn't even concerned about "realism", a careful analysis of how the real thing sound is essential in any modern simulation.
Samples are recordings but they are not performances. We may get the best timbre articulations with them but not the fluidity of a performance. They are like an assembled puzzle of a painting and not the painting itself and the more you get closer the more you see the pieces.
There wouldn't be anything strange if those puzzles if they were not reshaping the perception of the real painting.


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## novaburst (Sep 6, 2019)

leogardini said:


> There wouldn't be anything strange if those puzzles were not reshaping the perception of the real painting.



Agree, I think when users copy a famous piece of real life music, or even something like JW that sometimes comes of very well done, that is one side of sample library's that may never make the mark. 

But there is another side to sample library's where users are just doing their own thing and making their own style of orhcestral or epic, soundtracks, game music, they are taking sample library's to a new level. 

I think at the end of the day it was never and I stress it was never about replacing real life orchestral, sample library's has now become a culture a different type of orhcestral in its own right. 

Perhaps it's different because it can't get the flowing organic feel of real life music but it's taken on another life of its own where users can imput there imagination to the very full

The sound and taste of it is different but very attractive and ear candy so many are using samples in such an artistic musical emotional with tons of feeling coming out of one person or maybe a few but it can sound amazing, it has stamped its mark on the music industry and its hear to stay. 



Some feel its a side kick and secondary but it's not and I feel it should be imbraced as a musical instrument and respected as so.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 13, 2019)

The 2nd episode of Taking Your Strings to the Next Level is out now!

This time Sample Modeling Strings play Mozart Symphony no.40.


To read the full article click on the following link.








Taking Your Strings to the Next Level ep.2


Learn now how to produce realistic midi orchestration using different sample libraries. Learn more!




www.gardinischool.com





Let me know your impressions.


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## novaburst (Sep 13, 2019)

leogardini said:


> To read the full article click on the following link.



That was nice work sounded well with extreme, its almost like i can hear the bow movement ...incredible.

And very good insight in to how it is achieved, good work.

Love your thoughts on the Library and can understand why this library is a must.


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## staypuft (Sep 13, 2019)

Hello Leo, thanks again for sharing. I find Samplemodeling strings too synthetic no matter how hard you try to compensate with "performance programming". The sound is lacking. Having heard the Mozart and Beethoven performed by a real orchestra on countless occasions, I find the SM rendition too sterile and dynamics unbalanced across sessions. That's my biggest gripe with modeled instruments, it's too hard to make them sound like one big ensemble when you are too busy trying to make them "perform" right.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 13, 2019)

staypuft said:


> Hello Leo, thanks again for sharing. I find Samplemodeling strings too synthetic no matter how hard you try to compensate with "performance programming". The sound is lacking. Having heard the Mozart and Beethoven performed by a real orchestra on countless occasions, I find the SM rendition too sterile and dynamics unbalanced across sessions. That's my biggest gripe with modeled instruments, it's too hard to make them sound like one big ensemble when you are too busy trying to make them "perform" right.


It's because you've never heard a youth orchestra playing these pieces. 
Just kidding, thanks anyway!


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## novaburst (Sep 13, 2019)

staypuft said:


> I find Samplemodeling strings too synthetic no matter how hard you try to compensate with "performance programming".



Disagree with this statement 100 percent the muckup made the library come alive and is very attractive to the ear.

I would also say if you heard this with out knowing it was a library it would more than likely fool you into believing it was real,

there are a lot of bold negative statements about this library but i feel its because they already know its SM i dont think those statement would be so bold if you just heard this piece randomly on the radio or some where, it can and it would fool you into believing its live.

once more also the more skills applied the the more it has the potential to trick your ears, i think we need to be honest and stop saying what we feel others will back us up with an easy post that gets sympathy from others.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 14, 2019)

novaburst said:


> once more also the more skills applied the the more it has the potential to trick your ears, i think we need to be honest and stop saying what we feel others will back us up with an easy post that gets sympathy from others.




Anyone who knows me here knows that I don't say what I say looking for approval, because I swim against the tide a lot.

Leo is great, I don't like the sound. That simple.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 14, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Anyone who knows me here knows that I don't say what I say looking for approval, because I swim against the tide a lot.
> 
> Leo is great, I don't like the sound. That simple.


Jay, I truly appreciate your honesty. I agree the library is not perfect yet and sometimes I prefer to use other libraries. However, seeing you and other guys repeatedly saying that you don't like the sound gives me the impression that you think this library is worthless. Isn't there anything positive in this library that you can see?
Do you think the static recorded sample would sound better on those classical pieces?
If so, I would like to know how you guys would sound better with the other libraries. 
SM strings has opened new possibilities for string expressions that no other library can match. Is has its weaknesses, and the developers are aware and working on them. However, giving only negative feedback of such product, as it now, appears to be insane for me.
We don't need another spiccato library with eight microphone positions. We need libraries that can expand the possibilities of music made on computers, and very few companies have done so much as Sample Modeling during the last years.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 14, 2019)

No I certainly _don't_ think it is worthless nor am I discouraging anyone from using it IF they like what they hear. 

But Leo, you and I approach the whole task very differently. You are focused on trying to make it sound as close to the real thing as possible. (VSL has tried that for years as well and for me, it has never worked.) 

For me, because samples can never listen to each other and emotionally react, the whole pursuit is quixotic.

I always operate from the pov that, "this will never sound just like the real thing, so how can I make it sound pleasing to my ears with what it does well while avoiding what it does not?" 

And that starts, for me, with the tone. And I am, again totally subjectively, not liking it.


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## novaburst (Sep 14, 2019)

I am not saying most of the negative post are untruthful i strongly believe its because we are certain its a sample library the posters have based their thoughts on 

For instance there has never been a sample string library of this type before apart from Audio M and even they can trick the ears in the right hands

If SM did not say anything about the library or people had no clue about it, and some one with this type of skill posted a piece our perception would be different, you would have no choice but to call it real live performers as your first thoughts would be there is no library in the world that can do things like this.



Ashermusic said:


> For me, because samples can never listen to each other and emotionally react, the whole pursuit is quixotic.



This does not mean any thing if you are not there, you cant tell this by just listening with out seeing, what counts is the way it sounds, and because performers are not performing in harmony with each other does not make it unrealistic, it makes it untidy or not in time or not flowing or it will sound off those are the type of views we would use, we would not say unrealistic.

We all listen to real orchestra, well i do nearly every day, and i am not being untruthful when i say this muck up sounds like real players i know and understand what my ears are telling me, 



Ashermusic said:


> operate from the pov that, "this will never sound just like the real thing,



Unless you use East West HS  ......with play 6


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## Ashermusic (Sep 14, 2019)

novaburst said:


> I am not saying most of the negative post are untruthful i strongly believe its because we are certain its a sample library the posters have based their thoughts on
> 
> For instance there has never been a sample string library of this type before apart from Audio M and even they can trick the ears in the right hands
> 
> ...



I can tell that it isn't real players reacting to each other. If you don't believe that I can live with it. Anyway, it's all subjective, so I am done.


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## muk (Sep 14, 2019)

novaburst said:


> We all listen to real orchestra, well i do nearly every day, and i am not being untruthful when i say this muck up sounds like real players i know and understand what my ears are telling me,



If you think this is how a real orchestra sounds you should listen some more. These are two fantastic mockups, and Leo must be very skilled to achieve such results. I don't think you can achieve better results with samples today. So there is some seriously impressive skill at show here. And yet the results are not anywhere near a real orchestra. Compared to a real recording these mockups sound dull, lifeless, static, and utterly lacking nuance. Not Leo's fault at all. Samples simply can't do better at the moment.

Also, your jab at Jay's integrity is out of line.


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## Mishabou (Sep 14, 2019)

I find sound differences between sample libraries subjective, but one thing they all have in common, none can come anywhere near the real deal.


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## novaburst (Sep 14, 2019)

I am not going to get into some debate on sample verses real, being in the presence of a real orchestra is far different yes but playing that same orchestra on CD or MP3 at home or on headphones you will not get the same perception, and perception is what i am talking about,

Our ears can be tricked with samples and that is just a fact given the right set of circumstance and environment you can be tricked into thinking some think is real until it is made aware of that it is not and i am talking about every one of us, we base our knowledge on things we see and understand not on what we hear.

So if someone with a lot of status like JW said i recorded this live in a studio you would think very hard before saying no you did not or you probably would not answer at all more likely you would believe him because of who he is then suddenly this sound that you dont like becomes the next best thing and all of your perception has been changed into thinking something is real when it is not.

Yer yer i know what your going to say ....not me ....i can tell because i am so experienced and no library can fool me,) well if thats what you believe then run with it because i dont believe you can not get tricked


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## muk (Sep 14, 2019)

Samples are pretty good nowadays, and there are styles of music where they can fool most people - including me. But not on classical pieces as the ones above. No matter who told you that above examples were real recordings. It's simply audible that they are not. Wonderfully done as they are, a real orchestra simply does not sound like that. Neither live nor on cd. It's freakingly good for a mockup. But it certainly will not pass as a real recording to anybody who is listening closely.


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## philippe goi (Sep 15, 2019)

very beautiful achievements! I find the sound quite realistic , sample modeling strings is a very innovative bank that I think will still evolve over time is the updates ...


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 15, 2019)

Funny how auto-correct changed someone's "mockup" to "muckup". Actually, kind of sad.


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## Erik (Sep 16, 2019)

Hi,
Herewith my _two cents_ in the Beethoven Fifth, only the beginning and only the strings. No EQ, only a bit of MIR and Fabfilter. I hope you'll enjoy this version. Sounds differently from Leo's version in many respects.

I hope to have time to add the other sections.


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## synthetic (Sep 16, 2019)

It's telling how much of this library is about performance, when you listen to all of the demos and Leo's are so far beyond everything on their site. I agree that there are still some oddities in the sound but the performance is so good that I barely notice. Hopefully this technology continues to develop because it's really exciting. 

Also I'm getting a lot of out Leo's bowing tips even with my own libraries. Thank you for creating these videos.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 16, 2019)

One thing I think we can _all_ agree on: Leo has a great skill set.


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## servandus (Sep 17, 2019)

Sorry for going off-topic @leogardini, but I'm really intrigued by the woodwinds and brass. Did you also use the Infinite seires for the Mozart? If so, could you please briefly share your impressions? Is it similar to SM in their playability? Thanks in advance, and also for the videos.


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## Montisquirrel (Sep 17, 2019)

servandus said:


> Sorry for going off-topic @leogardini, but I'm really intrigued by the woodwinds and brass. Did you also use the Infinite seires for the Mozart? If so, could you please briefly share your impressions? Is it similar to SM in their playability? Thanks in advance, and also for the videos.



I second that. Would love to see more about the Infinite series. I am very interested in this series, but there is not that much videos about them online.


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## DANIELE (Sep 17, 2019)

servandus said:


> Sorry for going off-topic @leogardini, but I'm really intrigued by the woodwinds and brass. Did you also use the Infinite seires for the Mozart? If so, could you please briefly share your impressions? Is it similar to SM in their playability? Thanks in advance, and also for the videos.





Montisquirrel said:


> I second that. Would love to see more about the Infinite series. I am very interested in this series, but there is not that much videos about them online.



Buy them, you won't regret it!!


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## Zero&One (Sep 17, 2019)

First off, I have to say I'm really impressed by both of these. Amazing work and thanks for the useful tips! 

I find it a little depressing that such talented work doesn't seem to be getting the reaction _I_ felt when listening to it.
Are samples libraries that crap? Serious question honestly. My music sounds like a school band compared to this.
People seem to hear night/day when I hear an actual orchestra. Definitely considering a new hobby


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Sep 17, 2019)

James H said:


> First off, I have to say I'm really impressed by both of these. Amazing work and thanks for the useful tips!
> 
> I find it a little depressing that such talented work doesn't seem to be getting the reaction _I_ felt when listening to it.
> Are samples libraries that crap? Serious question honestly. My music sounds like a school band compared to this.
> People seem to hear night/day when I hear an actual orchestra. Definitely considering a new hobby



Simply no, they are not that crap, but capturing a live performance trying to mimic all the nuances is a different pair of shoes for many specific reasons which would blow the thread and topic. However..I think sample libraries getting really good still there is long long road until they could sound and create realistic sounds and imho I don´t think that this is gonna happen anytime soon. In fact I believe that the last 5 years remain a bit static. I mean even good old HWB is now over 8 years old and still can totally hold up with current brass libraries.


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## Zero&One (Sep 17, 2019)

@AlexanderSchiborr Thanks for the reply. Makes sense.

Probably just struck me harder as I'm working on something now and I'm at the "should I... shouldn't I continue stage". I think i have my answer ha!
What is the orchestral version of Smoke on the Water? I think I need it


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 17, 2019)

servandus said:


> Sorry for going off-topic @leogardini, but I'm really intrigued by the woodwinds and brass. Did you also use the Infinite seires for the Mozart? If so, could you please briefly share your impressions? Is it similar to SM in their playability? Thanks in advance, and also for the videos.


I am mostly using Infinite Series and SM Brass for these demos.
The complete walkthrough of the mockups, including the other sections, are going to be available for students of Scoring Tools Masterclass soon.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 17, 2019)

James H said:


> First off, I have to say I'm really impressed by both of these. Amazing work and thanks for the useful tips!
> 
> I find it a little depressing that such talented work doesn't seem to be getting the reaction _I_ felt when listening to it.
> Are samples libraries that crap? Serious question honestly. My music sounds like a school band compared to this.
> People seem to hear night/day when I hear an actual orchestra. Definitely considering a new hobby


Don't worry. Those guys feel good by being super demanding.

Kidding!


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## servandus (Sep 18, 2019)

leogardini said:


> I am mostly using Infinite Series and SM Brass for these demos.
> 
> The complete walkthrough of the mockups, including the other sections, are going to be available for students of Scoring Tools Masterclass soon.



Thanks! I'm really enjoying your videos. Looking forward to the next one 




leogardini said:


> Don't worry. Those guys feel good by being super demanding.



Jokes aside, I think anyone who listens to (e.g.) Alexander's insane mockups (and the honesty with which he shares them in this forum) could clearly see that he's applying here the same logic and critical hearing he applies for his own work. Considering the fact that we're all aware that replicating with VIs what happens in a real string section, where human beings interact with each other in real time, is nothing but utopic, I still think being super demanding is a good attitude, if only because it's the fastest way to move forward, either technologically or artistically.

Being myself an absolute supporter of new approaches and technologies (such as SM's) I think new products should be able to stand beside (if not surpass) the existing ones. If you listen to, say, NoamL "CSS + ... = magic" mockups, you know any new string library is going to be measured by such high standards. I truly celebrate that. Being demanding doesn't necessarily feel good... but is good 



AlexanderSchiborr said:


> In fact I believe that the last 5 years remain a bit static. I mean even good old HWB is now over 8 years old and still can totally hold up with current brass libraries.



Just a bit static? You're so kind. In all these past years, I still haven't found a flute which performs better than VSL for solo work (maybe Auddict, which I don't own). We definitely need companies that venture into new territories. Leaving aside other synthesis methods (which I also welcome, of course), in the sampling arena I can only see new paths being explored by SM, Aaron Venture, and Performance Samples. Every other company is doing the same old thing (at least better, thanks to the accumlulated experience). That's why I'm so glad about these new strings, not only because of what they can do in its present form, but because of the future possibilities (Btw, I really think you could do wonders with the SM strings; it has a somewhat neutral, silky tone that blends extremely well with other string libraries)



DANIELE said:


> Buy them, you won't regret it!!



I was about to, but then I watched a video review that really made me think twice (maybe because of how the instruments were played, I don't know). The thing is, apart from Leo's mockups, I haven't heard any user demos yet (and in Leo's mockups, they're not as exposed as I would like to hear them before clicking the buy button)


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## Ashermusic (Sep 18, 2019)

leogardini said:


> Don't worry. Those guys feel good by being super demanding.
> 
> Kidding!



I know you are kidding, but my point is I am not super demanding because I am not interested in trying to fool sophisticated listeners into thinking my sample based compositions are the real thing. I am only interested in creating sample based compositions that sound good to my ears and and ones of which that my client says to me, “This works great, Jay.”


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## eli0s (Sep 18, 2019)

servandus said:


> I watched a video review


Which video review did you watch?


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## Knomes (Sep 18, 2019)

servandus said:


> The thing is, apart from Leo's mockups, I haven't heard any user demos yet (and in Leo's mockups, they're not as exposed as I would like to hear them before clicking the buy button)



There's a user demo in thread:





Infinite Woodwinds — Welcome to the Next Generation // Update 1.1 adds an E-flat clarinet!


Is this the introductory price, or its standard list price?




vi-control.net


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## José Herring (Sep 18, 2019)

The tone may not be all that great, but there are some real usable bits in those demos. The isolated Viola track is wonderful. I don't think it's the end all to be all or the only string library one will have but it can be used along with other libraries that maybe have a better sound but are certainly harder to work with like HS. 

Example would be using HS for a long melodic line while SM Strings can take the inner moving lines with musicality and realism were as getting those inner moving lines with a library like HS takes a lot of time seems like SM could do it in far less time and on one track.

I'm curious. Would like to get it just to see if I can work it in to my template. At the very least it could be used as a decent solo library. Not much to lose as the price point is relatively low.

Now if it could do a 1/2 way decent mock up of the 4th movement of Mahler 9 I'd be excited.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 18, 2019)

josejherring said:


> The tone may not be all that great, but there are some real usable bits in those demos. The isolated Viola track is wonderful. I don't think it's the end all to be all or the only string library one will have but it can be used along with other libraries that maybe have a better sound but are certainly harder to work with like HS.
> 
> Example would be using HS for a long melodic line while SM Strings can take the inner moving lines with musicality and realism were as getting those inner moving lines with a library like HS takes a lot of time seems like SM could do it in far less time and on one track.
> 
> ...



I had this piece in mind as one of the mockups for the series but decided to change for some others more popular. I am sure SM can make it beautifully, no doubt.
I can work on something in the future if I have some spare time.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 18, 2019)

This is the mockup of a cue from Gladiator score by Hans Zimmer.
Patricide was a big challenge because of the many different characteristics of the strings.
70% to 80% of the strings are Sample Modeling.
The new tutorial about this mockup is coming soon.

 

Let me know your impressions!


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## Hanu_H (Sep 18, 2019)

leogardini said:


> This is the mockup of a cue from Gladiator score by Hans Zimmer.
> Patricide was a big challenge because of the many different characteristics of the strings.
> 70% to 80% of the strings are Sample Modeling.
> The new tutorial about this mockup is coming soon.
> ...



Sounds amazing!


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## DANIELE (Sep 18, 2019)

leogardini said:


> This is the mockup of a cue from Gladiator score by Hans Zimmer.
> Patricide was a big challenge because of the many different characteristics of the strings.
> 70% to 80% of the strings are Sample Modeling.
> The new tutorial about this mockup is coming soon.
> ...




What strings are the remaining 30% - 20%?


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## I like music (Sep 19, 2019)

leogardini said:


> This is the mockup of a cue from Gladiator score by Hans Zimmer.
> Patricide was a big challenge because of the many different characteristics of the strings.
> 70% to 80% of the strings are Sample Modeling.
> The new tutorial about this mockup is coming soon.
> ...




Says video unavailable...


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## I like music (Sep 19, 2019)

leogardini said:


> This is the mockup of a cue from Gladiator score by Hans Zimmer.
> Patricide was a big challenge because of the many different characteristics of the strings.
> 70% to 80% of the strings are Sample Modeling.
> The new tutorial about this mockup is coming soon.
> ...




Sounds amazing! Looks like you've layered Ensemble + Solos? I see some "overlapped" notes that are a little bit off-set, so assuming that this is what is happening in these cases.

Also, when you say 70-80% of the strings are SM, do you mean that there is layering going on but that _most_ of what we hear is SM? Or do you mean in 70-80% of cases you've used SM, and in other parts of the track, you've used another library?

Either way, fantastic work...


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## servandus (Sep 19, 2019)

Yes, fantastic mockup!

( @Knomes I missed that. Thanks a lot for the link! @eli0s I don't want to hijack the thread. I'll PM you )


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 19, 2019)

Hi guys, more details about the other libraries and how I used them in combination will come on the next tutorial. Thank you!


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## brunodegazio (Sep 19, 2019)

leogardini said:


> This is the mockup of a cue from Gladiator score by Hans Zimmer.
> Patricide was a big challenge because of the many different characteristics of the strings.
> 70% to 80% of the strings are Sample Modeling.
> The new tutorial about this mockup is coming soon.
> ...





! Video unavailable


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## CT (Sep 19, 2019)

leogardini said:


> We don't need another spiccato library with eight microphone positions. We need libraries that can expand the possibilities of music made on computers, and very few companies have done so much as Sample Modeling during the last years.



There are two dimensions that a virtual performance lives or dies by: musicality, and sonic quality. We've all heard countless instances of one or both of those absolutely killing a mockup. Subpar sonic quality is what will drag something down for me more than a lack of fluid musical expression. I would also prefer to have to work harder at performance than tinkering to get things sounding halfway decent, but these are moot points, as we're all going to come down on that tradeoff differently.

It's all well and good to say that you don't need another spiccato library with eight microphone positions. The problem is that the developers focusing on the modeling approach are at least as guilty as pure sample developers of only capturing half of the picture that I described above in their product. 

SM, AM, etc., are pushing the envelope of performance and musicality. Sample-based developers are making great strides in sheer sonic realism, although there are performance innovations in that world too. No one has united the two dimensions of VI realism yet, but as I see it, there is more being done towards that end by traditional sample developers, with the increase in "performance" patches and whatnot that offer great playability along with high sonic integrity. I will say that I think the sonic issues with modeled instruments may have more to do with spatialization techniques and plugins, and how inferior those options currently are, than with the raw sounds themselves.

I think there's great potential in modeling, and it's clear from the things that do work about your impressive demos that progress has been made, but the road ahead is still long. I hope that modeling developers can take the skepticism and criticism that I and others have on this in a positive way, and continue to push themselves, rather than perhaps becoming indignant and defensive and suggesting that we're just not "getting it" or similarly silly things.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 20, 2019)

miket said:


> I think the sonic issues with modeled instruments may have more to do with spatialization techniques and plugins, and how inferior those options currently are, than with the raw sounds themselves.


I agree and this is an important point. I suppose most of the complaints about the sound quality of SM strings come from the ambiance and not the string sound itself.

Dry and anechoic instruments are great for playability but can mean a real headache if you don't take care of their placement. It took me a long time until I could fully integrate my dry instruments with the wet ones. Some of them took more than a year of unsatisfactory results. But after lots of experiments I could finally come to the following conclusion - dry instruments are necessary and need a careful placement in your template. The match will never be perfect, and it shouldn't be. Otherwise, you wouldn't need another library. However, the approximation of their sound will determine which library and combination of libraries you use in your music.

That is how I made Patricide mockup.


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## DANIELE (Sep 20, 2019)

leogardini said:


> I agree and this is an important point. I suppose most of the complaints about the sound quality of SM strings come from the ambiance and not the string sound itself.
> 
> Dry and anechoic instruments are great for playability but can mean a real headache if you don't take care of their placement. It took me a long time until I could fully integrate my dry instruments with the wet ones. Some of them took more than a year of unsatisfactory results. But after lots of experiments I could finally come to the following conclusion - dry instruments are necessary and need a careful placement in your template. The match will never be perfect, and it shouldn't be. Otherwise, you wouldn't need another library. However, the approximation of their sound will determine which library and combination of libraries you use in your music.
> 
> That is how I made Patricide mockup.



I'm still living in that pain you are talking about. I bought the 2ca couple Precedence + Breeze 2 and I must say that they are both great to achieve spatialization for dry instruments.

I think I found a good balance in my actual template but I still have to try and try again with practical examples. As I write new tracks I keep editing my template to reach the perfect balance.

The pain I get is caused by the fact that I always keep finding something wrong or in the wrong place.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 27, 2019)

The 3rd episode of the series is finally out!

This time let's see how we can achieve the minimum and the maximum of drama with virtual strings.
The chosen piece, as above, is the Gladiator score by Hans Zimmer.



To read and watch the full article click on the following link.








Taking Your Strings to the Next Level ep.3


Make you midi sound real. Improve your string realism using Sample Modeling Strings. Learn more!




www.gardinischool.com





For more free tutorials don't forget to subscribe to my Youtube channel and the Gardini School newsletter.

Let me know your thoughts!


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## Leandro Gardini (Oct 30, 2019)

The 4th and last mockup of Taking Your Strings to the Next Level is finally out.

This time I thought it would be very instructive to work on another film music that has some beautiful melodies and is a big challenge for any midi orchestrator.
The music of Lord of the Rings was the chosen one.



Stay tuned, the tutorial of how I programmed this music is coming in the next days.

Let me know your impressions.


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## Jonathan Moray (Oct 30, 2019)

leogardini said:


> The 4th and last mockup of Taking Your Strings to the Next Level is finally out.
> 
> This time I thought it would be very instructive to work on another film music that has some beautiful melodies and is a big challenge for any midi orchestrator.
> The music of Lord of the Rings was the chosen one.
> ...




Nicely done! I like it. Probably the best one yet.

The only thing that stuck out and that I didn't really like too much was the solo Violin. It sounds overhyped, brittle, and not very full. But the rest of the strings sound fine. I think I would personally have given them a little more body though.

Also a big fan of the flute.

Looking forward to the tutorial.


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## novaburst (Oct 30, 2019)

Simply a master class, so much detail completely a different level.


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## MauroPantin (Oct 30, 2019)

Following this thread. Great stuff!


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## DANIELE (Oct 30, 2019)

leogardini said:


> The 4th and last mockup of Taking Your Strings to the Next Level is finally out.
> 
> This time I thought it would be very instructive to work on another film music that has some beautiful melodies and is a big challenge for any midi orchestrator.
> The music of Lord of the Rings was the chosen one.
> ...




Great work Leo, did you use AV IW and IB here?


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## Leandro Gardini (Oct 31, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> Great work Leo, did you use AV IW and IB here?


What's AV?
I used a greater variety of libraries for this one but the strings are predominantly SM.
More details are coming soon in the tutorial.


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## DANIELE (Oct 31, 2019)

leogardini said:


> What's AV?
> I used a greater variety of libraries for this one but the strings are predominantly SM.
> More details are coming soon in the tutorial.



Sorry, I was in a hurry, I meant Aaron Venture Infinite Woodwinds and Infinite Brass.


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## Leandro Gardini (Oct 31, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> Sorry, I was in a hurry, I meant Aaron Venture Infinite Woodwinds and Infinite Brass.


My bad! Yes there are AV mixed with other libraries.


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## jaketanner (Oct 31, 2019)

NoamL said:


> Once I got chewed out by a director. I had written music for a scene and the director disliked it. He told me words to this effect: "This shot was very difficult to achieve. We had to use a special rig for the camera. We had to get the shot at a certain time of day. The actors had to do many takes to get it right. Finally, we got the shot I wanted. And you put this music on it?!"  That made it very clear to me what my job was!


Damn! Did you finish the job?


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## NoamL (Oct 31, 2019)

Yessir


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## Leandro Gardini (Dec 16, 2019)

I am happy to announce the release of the 4th and last episode of our acclaimed series Taking Your Strings to the Next Level.

Now it is time to work on a realistic mockup of Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Seriously, if you wish to improve your string programming like never before, you should study this free tutorial and all the previous ones, if you haven't done so yet. You simply can't miss these materials!
I believe there's no teaching about midi mockups that is so detailed and deep as Scoring Tools Masterclass.
I put in this course everything that I know about midi orchestration. Therefore, next time, don't ask me which library I use, but instead, ask me how I use them.




Let me know your impressions!


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## ericmusic67 (Jan 28, 2020)

VERRY VERRY GOOD JOB!!!!!!!


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## ericmusic67 (Feb 9, 2021)

you are right Leandro. samplemodeling string is the best bank of violin sounds. and your work shows it.


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## AndyP (Jul 14, 2021)

I'll lift this older thread back to the top.
Since yesterday I am owner of the SM Solo and Ensembles, and what surprises me absolutely positively is the agility with which this library can be played.
Working without keyswitches is easy to play, with a few interventions in the controllers here and there is a real highlight. I have to get used to playing techniques, but intuitively it was a whole new experience.

The sheer number of controllers and how I can influence the sound is a challenge in the first moment. However, the ability to shape the sound into something more aggressive seems limited to me.

What I haven't managed yet is to play convincing spiccato. Staccato, marcato works great, but shorter and more aggressive notes I can only get with the tremolo articulation. I haven't found any other way to make the bowing shorter and more aggressive. Is there any advice for this?


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## DANIELE (Jul 14, 2021)

AndyP said:


> I'll lift this older thread back to the top.
> Since yesterday I am owner of the SM Solo and Ensembles, and what surprises me absolutely positively is the agility with which this library can be played.
> Working without keyswitches is easy to play, with a few interventions in the controllers here and there is a real highlight. I have to get used to playing techniques, but intuitively it was a whole new experience.
> 
> ...


There are some controls to shape the attack of every note (look at the manual) but I really think you should wait for the next update that will brings a lot of new life to the library.
Actually I feel the library version 1.2b lacking a bit of aggressivity, as you and other users pointed out, probably because of the new ensemble spread they introduced with 1.2. I use 1.1 for the short notes and 1.2b for the rest, the new update should fix this and I'll go back to use only one version of the library.


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## AndyP (Jul 14, 2021)

Thank you Daniele! Yes, shortening the attack time helps a bit, but not enough. Now me looking forward to the next update, because I am very taken by what is possible with SM. The violins are a dream, it was never so easy for me to start playing and get a result I had in mind.
A bit like the performance patches in Spitfire, but with SM it's buttery smooth and feels much more realistic to me.


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## DANIELE (Jul 14, 2021)

AndyP said:


> Thank you Daniele! Yes, shortening the attack time helps a bit, but not enough. Now me looking forward to the next update, because I am very taken by what is possible with SM. The violins are a dream, it was never so easy for me to start playing and get a result I had in mind.
> A bit like the performance patches in Spitfire, but with SM it's buttery smooth and feels much more realistic to me.


The library is excellent, I only use SM Strings for the strings section in my template, I will add IS once is out but I stopped using standard sample libraries for quite a while now and I'm very happy with it.

With the next update they will also introduce smaller size ensembles and many other improvements so I'm sure it will be a great update.


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## Ivan Duch (Jul 14, 2021)

AndyP said:


> Thank you Daniele! Yes, shortening the attack time helps a bit, but not enough. Now me looking forward to the next update, because I am very taken by what is possible with SM. The violins are a dream, it was never so easy for me to start playing and get a result I had in mind.
> A bit like the performance patches in Spitfire, but with SM it's buttery smooth and feels much more realistic to me.


Yes, I share the exact same experience. I posted it a few weeks ago in the Release thread. 

For lyrical stuff it's awesome. But its shorts are lacking to my taste, and also noticed that the tremolo attack has more bite and can work as a spiccato. It's weird because I always thought that was the easier part to do with sample libraries.

But I think it's not only that they are lacking in sound (lack of bite), they are also a quite hard to program to avoid a machine gun effect. 

The Infinite series seem to handle the note attacks way better, not sure why or how but I don't get a machine gun effect when repeating the same note several times. The small variations in velocity, note length and mod wheel seem enough. 

Other than that the library is great, and after almost a month since I'm using it everyday I'm quite a happy customer because of all it does well.


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## muziksculp (Jul 14, 2021)

Ivan Duch said:


> and also noticed that the tremolo attack has more bite and can work as a spiccato.


That's interesting, I will check this out. Hopefully the next update will offer more improvements to the attack sound of the short notes, which I still find a bit of a weakness of this library. 

Thanks for the helpful feedback.


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## AndyP (Jul 15, 2021)

My new dream combination is called OPUS + Samplemodeling. They fit like a glove and layered with Hollywood Strings Shorts or Marcatos the disadvantage of biting shorts of the samplemodeling strings can be compensated very well. The Marcatos in HS/ OPUS have always been my favorites because they respond to the length of the note and do not have an unnecessarily long release.

The playing style does not suffer from it, on the contrary, it becomes even more dynamic and sonically it fits super together. I mainly use the Divisi of the HS, and this is the sound that turns me on.

Another combination that works perfectly are HS/ OPUS Legatos layered with SM. Dreamlike!
Now that I know how to adjust the controllers in SM, I can combine both libraries perfectly. The SM Strings are the icing on the cake!


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## Leandro Gardini (Jul 16, 2021)

AndyP said:


> My new dream combination is called OPUS + Samplemodeling. They fit like a glove and layered with Hollywood Strings Shorts or Marcatos the disadvantage of biting shorts of the samplemodeling strings can be compensated very well. The Marcatos in HS/ OPUS have always been my favorites because they respond to the length of the note and do not have an unnecessarily long release.
> 
> The playing style does not suffer from it, on the contrary, it becomes even more dynamic and sonically it fits super together. I mainly use the Divisi of the HS, and this is the sound that turns me on.
> 
> ...


I have a similar experience but with other libraries.


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## muziksculp (Jul 16, 2021)

I never tried layering Sample Modeling Strings with other String libraries. 

But, given the flexibility that Sample Modeling Strings offer, wouldn't layering them defy that purpose ?


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## Ivan Duch (Jul 16, 2021)

I find myself doing a fair amount of layering as well. But for many lines, I end up using SM Strings by themselves where adding anything else kind of ruins the expression. 

I layer it with BBCSO and Adagio quite a bit, both ensembles and soloists. Especially for the shorts but also for adding a bit of room to the sound in general.


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## Leandro Gardini (Jul 17, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I never tried layering Sample Modeling Strings with other String libraries.
> 
> But, given the flexibility that Sample Modeling Strings offer, wouldn't layering them defy that purpose ?


By layering, you get the sound quality of a well-recorded wet sample and the incredible flexibility of SM strings.
I just take care to use smaller ensembles on both so that the sound doesn't become very massive.
I have plans to release a tutorial about it but time is a real concern here.


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## muziksculp (Jul 17, 2021)

Given that the Sample Modeling Strings react to the way they are played, and the controller data they receive in real time, other libraries are less responsive in terms of responding to how they are played, so I'm wondering, what type of patch one would layer Sample Modeling Strings Ens. , to achieve a richer sound, but still maintain the responsiveness of Sample Modeling Strings.

i.e. Playing short duration notes with high-velocity automatically produces stac., spicc. shorts, playing legato style produces legato lines, the layered library would not be able to reflect those changes. So, just curious how this will translate sonically, and what type of patches can be used to get good results.


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## Ivan Duch (Jul 19, 2021)

@muziksculp, I'm no expert but when I layer it I layer it in some specific phrases and articulatios.

Sometimes I even record both separately (if not I have to modify the midi for sure). What @leogardini mentioned about using two small ensembles is a good way of doing it so you can record them separately and add characteristics of the libraries.

It's like when you record a violin soloist to use on top of a sampled ensemble to add some extra life to it. I find samplemodeling is good for giving that extra life because of how expressive it canget. But sometimes it's the other way around.


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## muziksculp (Jul 20, 2021)

Ivan Duch said:


> @muziksculp, I'm no expert but when I layer it I layer it in some specific phrases and articulatios.
> 
> Sometimes I even record both separately (if not I have to modify the midi for sure). What @leogardini mentioned about using two small ensembles is a good way of doing it so you can record them separately and add characteristics of the libraries.
> 
> It's like when you record a violin soloist to use on top of a sampled ensemble to add some extra life to it. I find samplemodeling is good for giving that extra life because of how expressive it canget. But sometimes it's the other way around.


Thanks. 

I see. Yes, that makes a lot sense. 

There are many creative ways of using sample libraries to achieve a desired result.


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