# Tom Holkenborg's Brass - some exposed phrases & comparisons



## Laurin Lenschow

Here's a short video I just made to showcase some phrases with TH Brass only:



I plan on making one or two more videos about this library before the sale ends, so if you have any questions or things you would like to see/hear, just let me know! 

*--> Edit: See this post for a trumpet comparison video (CB Core, Pro and Sonore, THB, HWB, Jaeger)*


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## hauspe

If you are willing to share the midi file I will upload a video with Cinebrass Pro, Jaeger and Talos

PS: without any doubt OT TH BRASS is one of the best libraries we can get, ntl we need comparisons


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## dunamisstudio

Well since I've heard the trumpets are bad, can you do a comparison of them? I already got Cinebrass core and Synchron Brass and Jaeger.


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## Awoo Composer

Horns sound very nice. Unfortunately the bundle is still out of budget but it's definitely sounds like a good library.


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## hauspe

Now I throw something unexpected into this round - VSL Prime Trompets...


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## Laurin Lenschow

hauspe said:


> If you are willing to share the midi file I will upload a video with Cinebrass Pro, Jaeger and Talos


I'm not at my studio pc right now, but I'll post the file tomorrow 



dunamisstudio said:


> Well since I've heard the trumpets are bad, can you do a comparison of them? I already got Cinebrass core and Synchron Brass and Jaeger.


That's a great idea - I'll make a CineBrass vs Jaeger vs TH Brass trumpets comparison video soon!


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## Laurin Lenschow

hauspe said:


> If you are willing to share the midi file I will upload a video with Cinebrass Pro, Jaeger and Talos


Here's the midi file - Ableton won't let me export the whole project as a single file, so I put everything in one track and exported that. I also left the key switches in - you'll have to change them, but I thought they might serve as a reference for where I used longer and shorter articulations.


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## liquidlino

Mystery Library, any guesses? And yes, I adapted all the dynamics, cc's etc to match the library, it's not a straight cut and paste.
View attachment 2022-08-12 JXL Lines on Century Brass.2022-08-12 23_27_02.mp3


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## Laurin Lenschow

liquidlino said:


> Mystery Library, any guesses? And yes, I adapted all the dynamics, cc's etc to match the library, it's not a straight cut and paste.
> View attachment 2022-08-12 JXL Lines on Century Brass.2022-08-12 23_27_02.mp3


I think it's not CineBrass Core or Pro, HWB or the brass from Jaeger and I liked everything but the trumpets, so my guess goes to... Infinite Brass 
(which I don't own)


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## Zanshin

liquidlino said:


> Mystery Library, any guesses? And yes, I adapted all the dynamics, cc's etc to match the library, it's not a straight cut and paste.
> View attachment 2022-08-12 JXL Lines on Century Brass.2022-08-12 23_27_02.mp3


Century?


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## Laurin Lenschow

Zanshin said:


> Century?


on second thoughts... let me change my guess, I think you're right


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## Zanshin

Laurin Lenschow said:


> on second thoughts... let me change my guess, I think you're right


I think nearly everyone owns it by this point lol.


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## hauspe

Laurin Lenschow said:


> on second thoughts... let me change my guess, I think you're right


i missed it - yet.


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## Laurin Lenschow

Zanshin said:


> I think nearly everyone owns it by this point lol.


except me - I managed to resist


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## Trash Panda

Here's another mystery library for this.

View attachment Mystery Brass Exposed Phrases(2).mp3


This one should surprise people methinks.


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## Casiquire

Zanshin said:


> I think nearly everyone owns it by this point lol.


Even as an adult I still can't seem to do what all the cool kids are doing


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## Trash Panda

Laurin Lenschow said:


> except me - I managed to resist


I wish I had resisted.


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## Casiquire

Trash Panda said:


> I wish I had resisted.


Interesting, I've heard good things about it and I've loved the sound. You're not a fan?


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## dunamisstudio

Zanshin said:


> I think nearly everyone owns it by this point lol.


I don't have it


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## Trash Panda

Casiquire said:


> Interesting, I've heard good things about it and I've loved the sound. You're not a fan?


Not at all.



Trash Panda said:


> Sound quality wise and consistency wise, my experience with Century Brass does not stack up with what I've heard from Berlin Brass or Synchron Brass.
> 
> The upper dynamics in Century lose the power that is present in Synchron and the lower brass shorts in Century lack punch. Sound-wise, most of my issues are with the low brass (trombones, cimbasso, tuba, etc.) as the volume drops off quite a bit as you move into the lower registers, which does not happen to the same degree as any other libraries I've used, including a certain Spitfire orchestra I have panned in the past for their lackluster brass. The trumpets, flugelhorn and French horns sound good enough, but I still wouldn't compare them to Berlin Brass or Synchron Brass.
> 
> The behavior of short articulations varies from instrument to instrument - for example, on some instruments, marcatos will trigger release samples if you let go of the key early, for many others, the marcato holds the full length of the original sample even if you release the key early, etc.
> 
> Maybe the above issues aren't something all users care about, but it was certainly a deal breaker for me.


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## Trash Panda

Trash Panda said:


> Here's another mystery library for this.
> 
> View attachment Mystery Brass Exposed Phrases(2).mp3
> 
> 
> This one should surprise people methinks.


No guesses? Does it sound _that_ bad?


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## Denkii

Trash Panda said:


> Here's another mystery library for this.
> 
> View attachment Mystery Brass Exposed Phrases(2).mp3
> 
> 
> This one should surprise people methinks.


I have a feeling...something recorded dry, ran through MIR?

The a12 is atrocious in comparison to the og post...I have another feeling but I am too scared to speak it out loud.


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## Trash Panda

Denkii said:


> I have a feeling...something recorded dry, ran through MIR?
> 
> The a12 is atrocious in comparison to the og post...I have another feeling but I am too scared to speak it out loud.


The horn ensemble is not a12, so it can’t really compete. I pushed the dynamics up to get more cuivre. No MIR involved.


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## Ricgus3

liquidlino said:


> Mystery Library, any guesses? And yes, I adapted all the dynamics, cc's etc to match the library, it's not a straight cut and paste.
> View attachment 2022-08-12 JXL Lines on Century Brass.2022-08-12 23_27_02.mp3


Century def! I own it and recognize it! Now if I am wrong I have made a silly fool out of my self  That is then on the house!


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## Ricgus3

Trash Panda said:


> No guesses? Does it sound _that_ bad?


I have a suspicion,


Spoiler



I think it is Infinite Brass. Making ensambles is hard, I am currently setting them up with my EWI. I will post an example of infinite myself with the midi to see if it sounds similar.  But I am not a fan of this sound, but I love Infinite Brass sound. Which is what troubles me, but then again Infinite is really all about performing and not copying midi. Will post IB later soon


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## tc9000

liquidlino said:


> Mystery Library, any guesses? And yes, I adapted all the dynamics, cc's etc to match the library, it's not a straight cut and paste.
> View attachment 2022-08-12 JXL Lines on Century Brass.2022-08-12 23_27_02.mp3


I hope it's something I already own


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## Trash Panda

Ricgus3 said:


> I have a suspicion,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is Infinite Brass. Making ensambles is hard, I am currently setting them up with my EWI. I will post an example of infinite myself with the midi to see if it sounds similar.  But I am not a fan of this sound, but I love Infinite Brass sound. Which is what troubles me, but then again Infinite is really all about performing and not copying midi. Will post IB later soon





Spoiler



It is not a modeled library like Infinite Brass


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## JokerOne

It sounds great, but is it always so "grand"? 

Perfect if you want Princess Leia hanging a medal around your neck at the Royal Award Ceremony during the final scene on IV. However should I pick another brass lib if I want something a bit less?


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## Trash Panda

JokerOne said:


> It sounds great, but is it always so "grand"?
> 
> Perfect if you want Princess Leia hanging a medal around your neck at the Royal Award Ceremony during the final scene on IV. However should I pick another brass lib if I want something a bit less?


It does everything, including “a bit less.”


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## JokerOne

Trash Panda said:


> It does everything, including “a bit less.”


you realize it takes very little arm twisting in my case.. thanks!


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## JokerOne

Trash Panda said:


> It does everything, including “a bit less.”


i pulled the trigger. will have fun this weekend...


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## Trash Panda

JokerOne said:


> i pulled the trigger. will have fun this weekend...


Congratulations! It’s a special one.


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## WhiteNoiz

Trash Panda said:


> No guesses? Does it sound _that_ bad?


Sounds somewhat nasal and buzzy to me. No idea what it is though.



JokerOne said:


> i pulled the trigger. will have fun this weekend...


I smell a conspiracy.


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## JokerOne

WhiteNoiz said:


> Sounds somewhat nasal and buzzy to me. No idea what it is though.
> 
> 
> I smell a conspiracy.


And I bought this one while completely sober.. (not always the case )


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## Ricgus3

Here is IB version of your extract @Laurin Lenschow . The first part is Trombone 1 and 2, Basstrombone, and Tube. Horn 1 and 2 doubling the trombone 1 and 2.

But I did not do the last part due to very little time. I played them in with the EWI. But not the 12 horn part  I played it once and then built a 12 horn ensamble with diffrent seating and mic and transposed-tricked 7-12 . _(@doctoremmet pssst! More IB EWI stuff!)_

View attachment untitled.mp3


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## Zanshin

Trash Panda said:


> Here's another mystery library for this.
> 
> View attachment Mystery Brass Exposed Phrases(2).mp3
> 
> 
> This one should surprise people methinks.


Caspian maybes? Adventure/trailer brass?

I’m on my phone so …


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## liquidlino

Zanshin said:


> Century?


Yep! I think it fares ok. Trumpets I think I chose A4 instead of A2 and it's suffered for it. The opening chords I was particularly happy with, didn't think it'd come anywhere close to THB. 

It also has some M7 concert hall IR on it.


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## liquidlino

WhiteNoiz said:


> Sounds somewhat nasal and buzzy to me. No idea what it is though.
> 
> 
> I smell a conspiracy.


Hmm. Yours my guess is maybe a vsl vi?


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## liquidlino

tc9000 said:


> I hope it's something I already own


Well, century is very affordable.


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## liquidlino

Trash Panda said:


> Here's another mystery library for this.
> 
> View attachment Mystery Brass Exposed Phrases(2).mp3
> 
> 
> This one should surprise people methinks.


Hmm. I haven't looked at answer yet. Horns 12 sounds like two A6 transportation trick. Trumpets sounds like a synth patch. Not sure I like any of it.... So that makes me guess spitfire, probably SStB.


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## Trash Panda

liquidlino said:


> Hmm. I haven't looked at answer yet. Horns 12 sounds like two A6 transportation trick. Trumpets sounds like a synth patch. Not sure I like any of it.... So that makes me guess spitfire, probably SStB.





Spoiler



Kontakt Factory Library legacy patches with SIPS legato/vibrato and Sonokinetic Zlin IRs


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## Denkii

Trash Panda said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Kontakt Factory Library legacy patches with SIPS legato/vibrato and Sonokinetic Zlin IRs


Sounds better than it has any right to be.
Not a fan of the bigger ensembles but the shorts are better and more lifelike than some things I own that were very costly.


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## Laurin Lenschow

dunamisstudio said:


> Well since I've heard the trumpets are bad, can you do a comparison of them? I already got Cinebrass core and Synchron Brass and Jaeger.


Quick update: Trumpet comparison vid is currently in the works and should be up within the next 24 hours. Libraries included will be CineBrass Core, CineBrass Pro, CineBrass Sonore, Hollywood Brass, Jaeger and THB (obviously).


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## tc9000

liquidlino said:


> Well, century is very affordable.


I do own it! Yay! I admit I have neglected it of late - it's probably my fave 8dio library and I have a few I really like - time to fire it up again.

I love it when I get reminded how good something I already have is - I wish vendors would periodically run teasers for their old products... like oooooh listen to those horns.... don't you wish your brass library was as good as this.... well - BRAMMMMMS - IT IS!


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## Kevperry777

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Quick update: Trumpet comparison vid is currently in the works and should be up within the next 24 hours. Libraries included will be CineBrass Core, CineBrass Pro, CineBrass Sonore, Hollywood Brass, Jaeger and THB (obviously).


Nice. Thank you and props for including Jaeger…it’s trumpets are great.


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## liquidlino

Had another listen this morning on my monitors (was working on headphones late last night when I did the first Century Brass example of this). Reworked the initial chords (the Trombones3 has an almost distortion like cuivre character in the higher dynamics, so I lowered their dynamics)., volume balance where possible, and changed from Trumpets4 to Trumpets2 - much snappier and better.
View attachment 2022-08-12 JXL Lines on Century Brass.2022-08-13 13_47_35.mp3


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## WhiteNoiz

liquidlino said:


> Hmm. Yours my guess is maybe a vsl vi?


It says HWB.  (Hollywood - 6 horns, 3 trombones x2 middle lines and tuba, solo horn, 3 trumpets mod shorts and tuba) It's fairly close to Century, although I liked the chord more in yours. Tuba doesn't reach that low register either (tried to detune it, but didn't really like it). Would be interesting to hear a Synchron one though, that stuff sounds very crisp and defined. Have been eyeing it for some time now.


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## liquidlino

WhiteNoiz said:


> It says HWB.  (Hollywood) It's fairly close to Century, although I liked the chord more in yours. Tuba doesn't reach that low register either (tried to detune it, but didn't really like it). Would be interesting to hear a Synchron one though, that stuff sounds very crisp and defined. Have been eyeing it for some time now.


I've got synchron prime on demo now. Try the demo, gives you a great idea of what the full libraries will be like. I generally like synchron. But the player is glitching in reaper, others reporting same thing. I'm just awaiting to see if studio one will refresh my trial license, been thinking of making the jump anyway.


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## Laurin Lenschow

Trumpet comparison is done. 
@dunamisstudio



While I think that the ensemble legatos are not that great I was actually surprised how well the shorts (THB shorts starting at 5:12) worked.

(On a side note: the shorts from CineBrass Sonore sound so bad because of the lack of decent marcatos; I had to use some articulations that were longer than they needed to be.)


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## Kevperry777

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Trumpet comparison is done.
> @dunamisstudio
> 
> 
> 
> While I think that the ensemble legatos are not that great I was actually surprised how well the shorts (THB shorts starting at 5:12) worked.
> 
> (On a side note: the shorts from CineBrass Sonore sound so bad because of the lack of decent marcatos; I had to use the sustains for everything that wasn't staccatissimo.)



Thanks for this. Very interesting. I think Cinebrass sounds nice across the board here. 

Much digital ink has been spilt by smarter people than me about the THB trumpets- it just seems they simply aren’t very in tune as an ensemble. Some notes are cringe amount off. It happens..somebody was having an Off day. That plus a much brighter tone makes for the quacky result.


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## Trash Panda

@Laurin Lenschow I assume the demo was made with the AMXL mics?

For those who aren’t aware, those mics have extra processing to bring out more low end and high end. The unprocessed mics sound more like what you’d get out of Berlin Brass or the Metropolis Arks, albeit with the different performances that come with JXL/TH Brass.


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## Laurin Lenschow

Trash Panda said:


> @Laurin Lenschow I assume the demo was made with the AMXL mics?


I used the default mic positions for all libraries, so yeah, it's the AMXL Tree mics for the THB trumpets. I can post a version with the unprocessed mics tomorrow and I'll also share the midi if anyone wants to add to the comparison


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## R.G.

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Trumpet comparison is done.



I didn't finish the video, but if what I heard of CineBrass Sonore was representative, it ironically sounds less "sonore" than the others.

Some of the legatos for certain libraries sound scripted but I didn't keep track which.

Some of the attacks for THB are over-aggressive for most purposes, and over-bright, too. Like they're designed to "cut through a thick mix" irrespective of tone. Performing in this manner is more tiring than normal for the players. And from one pitch to another there's a lack of continuity. Overall kind of messy and unmusical.

About the first minute more or less of Janácek's _Sinfonietta_ would be an excellent test case for brass for any future comparisons (if you just leave out the timpani).


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## dunamisstudio

Thank you @Laurin Lenschow for the videos. I'm convinced I don't need TH Brass, currently right now. Maybe pickup another patch besides the Horn one on sale. Maybe get Cinebrass Pro since I have Core. But after listening to the videos, what I got is sufficient. (I have Synchron Brass, Jaeger, Cinebrass Core, Forzo lite)


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## Laurin Lenschow

Here is the midi from my trumpets comparison, if anyone wants to add renditions with other libraries.
And here is a THB rendition that is using the unprocessed tree mics instead of the AMXL ones:
View attachment JXL Brass Trumpet Comparison unprocessed.mp3


0:00 Solo Trumpet Legato
0:25 Trumpets a3 Legato
0:40 Trumpets a6 Legato
0:56 Trumpets a3 Shorts
1:12 Trumpets a6 Shorts


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## Rudianos

I will throw some in ... Here are some VSL. 120 BPM. Default

Synchronized Fanfare Trumpet Fanfare from Epic Orchestra (No Legato here just Sustain)

View attachment Laura Lenschow Trumpets - VSL - Synchronized - Fanfare.mp3


Synchron Trumpet Ensemble from Prime

View attachment Laura Lenschow Trumpets - VSL - Synchron - Prime Trumpet Ensemble.mp3


Trumpet 1 from Prime - at 30 seconds def a jarring velocity layer shift - kept MIDI intact for control

View attachment Laura Lenschow Trumpets - VSL - Synchron - Prime Trumpet I.mp3


Trumpet 2 from Prime - at 30 seconds def a jarring velocity layer shift - kept MIDI intact for control

View attachment Laura Lenschow Trumpets - VSL - Synchron - Prime Trumpet II.mp3


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## dunamisstudio

Both examples are from Synchron Brass Standard. Stock Mixer. Sorry I didn't have the time to plug in all the different articulations in the examples. With that and Timbre Adjustment, you can fine tune the performances. Also it doesn't have the same patches as TH Brass.

Synchron Brass 01:
View attachment synchronbrass01.mp3

Horns a6
Tenor Trombones a4
Bass Trombone
Bass Tuba

Horn Solo
Horns a12
Trumpets a4
Bass Tuba

SynchronBrass02:
View attachment synchronbrass02.mp3

Trumpet 1 Legato
Trumpet 2 Legato
Trumpets a4 Legato
Trumpets a4 Shorts
Trumpets a6 Shorts


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## lychee

Little test with Wallander Wivi just to see, and "*for me*" it holds up.

View attachment JXL Brass exposed phrases Wivi.mp3


View attachment JXL Brass exposed phrases Wivi Trumpets.mp3


Certainly it's not as faithful a sound quality as its sampled equivalents, but I realy like the tuba and it defends itself well for the short notes part, which did not convince me on all the other libraries.
It lacks humanization, chaos in the attacks, even with the round robin.

If I have time, I would try Sample Modeling Brass.


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## musicalweather

I'm wondering whether to go for the THB+THP bundle as well. I have all the Berlin Main libraries, and find the brass to be very good. But perhaps it doesn't give one that true Hollywood epic sound. I wonder if THB is as agile as Berlin Brass. Here's a mockup of a Dukas fanfare I did using only Berlin Brass:


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## Henrik B. Jensen

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Here's a short video I just made to showcase some phrases with TH Brass only:
> 
> 
> 
> I plan on making one or two more videos about this library before the sale ends, so if you have any questions or things you would like to see/hear, just let me know!
> 
> *--> Edit: See post 49 on page three for a trumpet comparison video (CB Core, Pro and Sonore, THB, HWB, Jaeger)*



A link would have been nice 🙂

https://vi-control.net/community/th...posed-phrases-comparisons.128619/post-5162001


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## Laurin Lenschow

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> A link would have been nice 🙂
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/th...posed-phrases-comparisons.128619/post-5162001


I edited my original post and inserted the link


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## WhiteNoiz

R.G. said:


> About the first minute more or less of Janácek's _Sinfonietta_ would be an excellent test case for brass for any future comparisons (if you just leave out the timpani).


Here's a take with HWB again.



Rudianos said:


> I will throw some in ... Here are some VSL. 120 BPM. Default


Pref the Synchron and Trumpet 2 here.



dunamisstudio said:


> Both examples are from Synchron Brass Standard. Stock Mixer. Sorry I didn't have the time to plug in all the different articulations in the examples. With that and Timbre Adjustment, you can fine tune the performances. Also it doesn't have the same patches as TH Brass.
> 
> Synchron Brass 01:
> Synchron Brass 02:


Horn and Tuba seem kinda dynamically limited, trumpets are good in general again.


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## R.G.

Thanks for doing this!

I don't have THB so I've no idea what you have to work with.

Are you using horns for the bass trumpet parts? Trombones would be closer if you don't have bass trumpets, but they shouldn't be brassy (like the horns are here). Just stereotypical trombone tone, and slurred where indicated.

The trumpets are way too bright, which seems to always be the case whenever I hear THB.

Do you have euphoniums for the tenor tuba parts?


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## Trash Panda

R.G. said:


> Thanks for doing this!
> 
> I don't have THB so I've no idea what you have to work with.
> 
> Are you using horns for the bass trumpet parts? Trombones would be closer if you don't have bass trumpets, but they shouldn't be brassy (like the horns are here). Just stereotypical trombone tone, and slurred where indicated.
> 
> The trumpets are way too bright, which seems to always be the case whenever I hear THB.
> 
> Do you have euphoniums for the tenor tuba parts?


The AMXL mics are typically used, which are indeed, very bright. Here is the same example from @Laurin Lenschow with the unprocessed mics.



Laurin Lenschow said:


> Here is the midi from my trumpets comparison, if anyone wants to add renditions with other libraries.
> And here is a THB rendition that is using the unprocessed tree mics instead of the AMXL ones:
> View attachment JXL Brass Trumpet Comparison unprocessed.mp3
> 
> 
> 0:00 Solo Trumpet Legato
> 0:25 Trumpets a3 Legato
> 0:40 Trumpets a6 Legato
> 0:56 Trumpets a3 Shorts
> 1:12 Trumpets a6 Shorts


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## WhiteNoiz

Here are the HWB Trumpets, with some variations...

(1 TP Legato Slur, 1 TP Vib Leg Slur, 2 TP Leg Slur, 3 TP Leg Slur, 2 TP Shorts Mod Speed, 3 TP Staccato 9x RR, 3 TP Shorts Mod Speed, plus some algo verb)


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