# Avatar - highest grossing film ever



## mjc (Jan 27, 2010)

Hey guys,

I just discovered (excuse me if if I'm a late comer in his realisation) that Avatar took over Titanic as the highest grossing film ever. I liked the film, saw it in in 3D, but haven't been compelled to see it again. I also liked the score (despite Horner's blatant references to Titanic) but kinda 'meh' about the whole scenario haha...it's definitely no Lord of the Rings in my book, but then again I'm a Tolkien nerd :D 

I'm very aware there's been a whole topic already on the Horner score, but as for the movie (which I've admittedly enjoyed to certain degree) was taken by surprise tonight when I discovered it's become the highest grossing film ever! Good on ya James Cameron...kinda lol...he has his way of getting the general public interested!! (this is not to be 'for' or 'against' him in any way...just an observation :wink: ) 

Your thoughts??

Cheers,
Andy


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## Christian Marcussen (Jan 27, 2010)

My thoughts:

1) Well done JC
2) However the ticket prices are very high and inflation helps. 
3) Numberof tickets sold is the one to go for
4) That might still happen
5) at any rate it's quite an acheivement by JC any way you cut it.


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 27, 2010)

yeah its pretty impressive...but as far as attendance and actual ticket numbers, they dont quite match up tho.

I read Avatar still hasnt cracked the top 50 in terms of actual attendance, but have risen to the top spot due to the increased 3D ticket price,and also becouse the dollar is weak and the revenue from "foreign" terretories are somewhat inflated in that regard.

Still tho...money is money.


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## gsilbers (Jan 27, 2010)

biggest grossing film.. 

and its not that good imo. but same was with titanic.


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## choc0thrax (Jan 27, 2010)

Well the film is garbage but I'm happy for Cameron. Hopefully he'll get Battle Angel right.


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## Ed (Jan 27, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> Well the film is garbage but I'm happy for Cameron. Hopefully he'll get Battle Angel right.



Now come on choco... it does look pretty


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## midphase (Jan 27, 2010)

"Well the film is garbage but I'm happy for Cameron. "

I agree....except for being happy for Cameron....I don't think this is helping his over-inflated ego.


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## Justus (Jan 27, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> Well the film is garbage


Another "over-the-top"-posting by Choco :wink:


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## choc0thrax (Jan 27, 2010)

midphase @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> "Well the film is garbage but I'm happy for Cameron. "
> 
> I agree....except for being happy for Cameron....I don't think this is helping his over-inflated ego.



Yeah, but it's not like his ego can get any bigger, he was already the "king of the world" over a decade ago. I was afraid if Avatar was a flop that he wouldn't make many more films. I'm hoping that Avatar was an anomaly, that his next film will be good. He spent 10 years on Avatar and I don't know how you can make a good film after spending that much time on it. How do you not lost all perspective and get sick of the material. Of course, though, he could just be anò†ß   ÁÎµ†ß   ÁÎ¶†ß   ÁÎ·†ß   ÁÎ¸†ß   ÁÎ¹†ß   ÁÎº†ß   ÁÎ»†ß   ÁÎ¼†ß   ÁÎ½†ß   ÁÎ¾†ß   ÁÎ¿†ß   ÁÎÀ†ß   ÁÎÁ†ß   ÁÎÂ†ß   ÁÎÃ†ß   ÁÎÄ†ß   ÁÎÅ†ß   ÁÎÆ†ß   ÁÎÇ†ß   ÁÎÈ†ß   ÁÎÉ†ß   ÁÎÊ†ß   ÁÎË†ß   ÁÎÌ†ß   ÁÎÍ†ß   ÁÎÎ†ß   ÁÎÏ†ß   ÁÎÐ†ß   ÁÎÑ†ß   ÁÎÒ†ß   ÁÎÓ†ß   ÁÎÔ†ß   ÁÎÕ†ß   ÁÎÖ†ß   ÁÎ×†ß   ÁÎØ†ß   ÁÎÙ†ß   ÁÎÚ†ß   ÁÎÛ†ß   ÁÎÜ†ß   ÁÎÝ†ß   ÁÎÞ†ß   ÁÎß†ß   ÁÎà†ß   ÁÎá†ß   ÁÎâ†ß   ÁÎã†ß   ÁÎä†ß   ÁÎå†ß   ÁÎæ†ß   ÁÎç†ß   ÁÎè†ß   ÁÎé†ß   ÁÎê†ß   ÁÎë†ß   ÁÎì†


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## choc0thrax (Jan 27, 2010)

Justus @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> choc0thrax @ Wed Jan 27 said:
> 
> 
> > Well the film is garbage
> ...



Are you implying that I'm exaggerating? The only thing this film has going for it is the first 15 minutes where you're impressed by the visuals(not nearly as impressive as all the hype had led you to believe). After about 15 minutes that novelty wears off and then what do you have left? The promise that in 2 and a half hours you'll get to take the stupid glasses off.


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## Waywyn (Jan 27, 2010)

I think Choco even judges his own poo:

"Hmm, not really nice ... a bit flat on one side ... but okay, it helped"

=o


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## choc0thrax (Jan 27, 2010)

Ed @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> Not only was there a crappy story I didn't like how they jumped from telling you that they are about ready to wipe these people out and how they are "very hard to kill" implying they have been fighting with them, to the scientists being "in" with them where the aliens would teach them things and only seem mildly annoyed at their presence. If these strange alien invaders are trying to kill you, especially as life is the most important thing ever to you where you weep when so much as a plant dies, surely you'd be a bit more upset.
> 
> Also, I'm not usually one to have a problem with realism in films but WTF kind of sense did the whole Avatar thing make anyway? So they are meant to be clones with human DNA, yet they look mostly just like the real aliens apart from Sigourney Weaver.. bizarrely... and you can also transfer your conciousness into it. What is it meant to be a brain chip thing in there or something where you can experience some kind of virtual reality?
> 
> ...



I think trying to make sense of the story is hazardous to a person's health.

One thing that just came to me is the stupid exposition in this movie. The part where Giovanni Ribisi tells Sigourney Weaver(this is probably one of the few films where I can't remember a single character's name) all about how they need to get the "unobtainium" from under the ground and she's there to find a diplomatic solution. I was waiting for Sigourney to say "really? Tell me more about this unobtainium stuff. I just woke up out of a coma wearing this lab coat and have been wondering what's going on".


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## Ed (Jan 27, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> I think trying to make sense of the story is hazardous to a person's health.
> 
> One thing that just came to me is the stupid exposition in this movie. The part where Giovanni Ribisi tells Sigourney Weaver(this is probably one of the few films where I can't remember a single character's name) all about how they need to get the "unobtainium" from under the ground and she's there to find a diplomatic solution. I was waiting for Sigourney to say "really? Tell me more about this unobtainium stuff. I just woke up out of a coma wearing this lab coat and have been wondering what's going on".



Speaking of "unobtainium", surely that sounds like a placeholder.


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## synthetic (Jan 27, 2010)

If you adjust for inflation, Gone With The Wind is still the #1 movie of all time.


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## autopilot (Jan 27, 2010)

So - easy to criticise anything, but what is good about it? It's seems to be resonating with most people. It's not just the CGI... the CGI helps to make a compelling and immersive world as I understand it. 

What can we steal from this to make us better at our jobs making scores and films and stories?


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## Ed (Jan 27, 2010)

autopilot @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> So - easy to criticise anything, but what is good about it? It's seems to be resonating with most people. It's not just the CGI... the CGI helps to make a compelling and immersive world as I understand it.
> 
> What can we steal from this to make us better at our jobs making scores and films and stories?



I like lots of films people consider crappy, but Avatar's story really was ridiculously crap.


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## midphase (Jan 27, 2010)

I find it amazing that the public's expectations have become so low that as long as they can marvel in awe at CGI effects, any mediocre and derivative story will do.

It's a shame really considering that movies like Hurt Locker, Moon and The Merry Gentleman have been overlooked by most of the public.


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## midphase (Jan 27, 2010)

PS.

I think the same is true with politicians!


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## Ed (Jan 27, 2010)

midphase @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> I find it amazing that the public's expectations have become so low that as long as they can marvel in awe at CGI effects, any mediocre and derivative story will do..



I find it amazing that so many people have been fooled by OOOH PRETTY. 

If you want to watch Avatar just watch the trailer and then watch the South Park parody.

That's all you need to know. 

Yes you miss out on the CGI 3D glory but if you just want to see pretty pictures then go see it, the story is just a way to string the technical accomplishments together.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 27, 2010)

Mid phase, 

You mentioned something about Cameron's inflated ego. 8) I guess I don't follow him enough, haven't noticed that. What makes you say that? Just curious.


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## Mahal (Jan 27, 2010)

Cameron's ego? Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJp7Wd6Af2A


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 27, 2010)

Mahal @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> Cameron's ego? Watch this:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJp7Wd6Af2A



Yeah! Yeah! yeah! I had seen that back then. He said: "I'm king of the world!" Which, to be honest, I found was appropriate and amusing in these circumstances, a little wink to an unforgettable quote from the movie, and it was his moment.

So what!

I certainly hope people aren't basing their idea of having a huge ego based on that?


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## choc0thrax (Jan 27, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> Mahal @ Wed Jan 27 said:
> 
> 
> > Cameron's ego? Watch this:
> ...



It's common knowledge that he has a huge ego. He can also be pretty horrible to work with. He has a military fetish and runs his films like a boot camp. James Horner always ages about 10 years after working with him.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm more happy about T2 and Aliens imo


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## Hal (Jan 27, 2010)

i havent met a director without too much ego yet !


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 27, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> Guy Bacos @ Wed Jan 27 said:
> 
> 
> > Mahal @ Wed Jan 27 said:
> ...



That's because these guys knows exactly what they want, and have enormous pressure and a time delay to respect, and these are HUGE films he's undertaking, so it's normal he needs strict discipline when working and for some that may be interpreted as ego, bossy, mean etc. It's his ass that's on the line....


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## choc0thrax (Jan 27, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> choc0thrax @ Wed Jan 27 said:
> 
> 
> > Guy Bacos @ Wed Jan 27 said:
> ...



So you agree that I'm right, he's an ass. Thank you.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 27, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> So you agree that I'm right, he's an ass. Thank you.



Idiot. :roll:


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## Pando (Jan 27, 2010)

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/epic-fail-avatar-plot-fail.jpg (http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/201 ... t-fail.jpg)

:D


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## midphase (Jan 28, 2010)

I think most directors who work on big budget films have tremendous pressure put on them to deliver (not sure the whole "deliver on time" registers with Cameron anyway).

This is not about running a tight and organized ship, that goes without saying.

This is about perceiving yourself as being the sole savior of the film industry, and having an "I can do no wrong" attitude. 

Don't get me wrong, Cameron has talent in spades, but we don't need to be reminded of it every time he has a chance.


PS.

There are plenty other directors who work on high budget films who manage to be very pleasant, even humble.


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## TheoKrueger (Jan 28, 2010)

Pando @ Thu Jan 28 said:


> http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/epic-fail-avatar-plot-fail.jpg
> 
> :D



Lol, spot on


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 28, 2010)

midphase @ Thu Jan 28 said:


> I think most directors who work on big budget films have tremendous pressure put on them to deliver (not sure the whole "deliver on time" registers with Cameron anyway).
> 
> This is not about running a tight and organized ship, that goes without saying.
> 
> ...



Thanks Midphase. I don't know him well enough to make any judgement about that, and I like to be careful of all the "hear say" stuff, but I'll take your word for it.


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## David Story (Jan 28, 2010)

I like both the adjusted and raw sales as a measure, plus ancillaries. 
Avatar is the biggest game changing film now. 
Gone With The Wind and Star Wars were all that and more in their era. Maybe what film had the box office record longest is a way of measuring popular impact. That goes to GWTW.
Yet merchandising and transmedia projects have been huge since the 60's. There SW leads.
Any other ideas on how to measure success? Personal satisfaction, awards, sequels.
Avatar quote" I see you"


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 29, 2010)

It may be raining money on Cameron's roof, but in my opinion the best film ever made, was a film done 70 years ago with no special effects: "Citizen Kane".

But I'm going to see Avatar tomorrow, so maybe I'll change my mind.


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## nikolas (Jan 29, 2010)

Mahal @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> Cameron's ego? Watch this:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJp7Wd6Af2A


I have to say that I also found it somewhat funny and appropriate for the moment! Come on! The guy won an oscar.

Now if he's an arse or not... no idea really... And I can't say I care too much.


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## George Caplan (Jan 29, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 29 said:


> But I'm going to see Avatar tomorrow, so maybe I'll change my mind.



Doubt it. Not if you liked citizen kane which I remember as being a very good film. On the other hand the director of avatar won an oscar so gosh, that changes everything.


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## nikolas (Jan 29, 2010)

Can you imagine Citizen Kane as a blue 9 feet tall guy yelling in some alien lanugage "RESOBUD...."!? Honestly I thought of that image and laughed at myself...


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 29, 2010)

I assume this is a reference to Avatar, cause I have no idea what you're talking about.


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## nikolas (Jan 29, 2010)

Main characters in Avatar are 9 feet tall blue aliens and there's a lot of yelling going on... :D


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 29, 2010)

"Dances with 10 ft tall alien Night Elves"

I seriously think the production design staff of Avatar played World of Warcraft at one point.


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## StrangeCat (Jan 29, 2010)

I am not really going to comment on any of the negatives here. I will say that the Movie industry has changed as we know it now. Unfortunately many studios are really going to assume there movies will be better in 3d. (sigh) 
But for a lot of movies like the big Scifi and fantasy style movies it will be very cool!
Harry Potter in 3d? hmm yea right.
StarWars in 3d that will Happen. LOTR in 3d yea it's next.

Avatar? more power to you Mr. Cameron King of the World! =o


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## snowleopard (Jan 29, 2010)

Haven't seen it. No hurry to. Not into 3D, find it detracts from the story and characters in every movie I've seen with it. 

Cameron's Abyss is still one of my favorite all-time films. I also admire his knowledge, leadership and creative drive as a person. I'd work for him in a heartbeat, even if I knew he'd probably drive me into the ground. 

Titanic was pretty. Wasn't really into LOTR, or ET for that matter. 

If Avatar fills more seats than Gone with the Wind or more people see it than whatever is on the top of any given list (GWTW? Star Wars? Wizard of Oz? Jesus?) I don't really care one way or the other I guess.


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 30, 2010)

I guess these reissues in 3D will make money, but I can't really understand it, to be honest. I think Avatar is deceptive in that way. It's a bit like The Wizard of Oz - not the first film to use colour, but it was a game-changer in terms of HOW it was used, the perfect marriage of material and technology. Eventually when the technology existed to subsequently colorize old movies, it was comprehensively rejected by the public.

It seems to me that the big allure of Avatar is in experiencing an immersive photoreal beautiful other world. 3D was only an element in the whole, albeit an important one. You feel like its something quite new (oh, and Cameron can sure tell a story, no matter how much the critics sniff). It seems to me to be missing the point to say "Avatar was in 3D and made a sack-o-cash, so let's reissue our stuff in 3D and make our own sack-o-cash".

CG stuff like Toy Story (the original) being re-released in 3D makes some sense I guess because they can - presumably - go back to the original material and re-render in 3D (probably taking a fraction of the time, too). So - again, in theory - there's no compromise on quality, it's like a genuine new movie made in 3D. But even there, I doubt it adds much in terms of the experience of watching the movie.

As to Star Wars et al... will it really feel more immersive? If it genuinely made you feel like you were on Tatooine etc then that's one thing, but I suspect it will be a fairly crude layering effect that alternately works well or badly from shot to shot. And Lucas' track record here isn't good - the special editions of the original trilogy were markedly worse than the originals, despite two decades of technology to "improve" them. I think the original Star Wars movies have suffered enough... it's time to let them RIP! But then again... I'm not a Lucasfilm shareholder.

*steps off soapbox*


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 30, 2010)

Gonna see it in an hour. Running time almost 3 hours, shit this is a LONG movie! Will comment later tonight.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 30, 2010)

I've seen Avatar today and I can now give an opinion.

It's a film worth seeing for sure, but MAINLY because of the effects. I found the script rather weak, the pace was way too slow in the 1st half, and a lot of elements seemed too forced in the film to get the perfect recipe which in my opinion, wasn't. It had everything but left me cold, and I don't think it was because of the blue. Not a movie I'd want to see a 2nd time, and that to me is the real test. There was a couple of very clever ideas and some spectacular scenes, and the make up was amazing, but all not enough to counterbalance the weak areas. The score is impeccable, and I think it must of been a difficult score to write, Horner often held back, but in good taste, to leave place for the rest. I think it deserves at best to be nominated at the Oscars, but NOT to win, but unfortunately, I'm pretty sure it will. I'm glad Disney/Pixar have done fantastic films in the last years with great story lines. I think Cameron should stick to directing and producing, not writing. He seems to be looking at $ as he's writing the script, and the worst part of it is, he's won his bet!


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## NYC Composer (Feb 2, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Sat Jan 30 said:


> It seems to me that the big allure of Avatar is in experiencing an immersive photoreal beautiful other world. 3D was only an element in the whole, albeit an important one. You feel like its something quite new (oh, and Cameron can sure tell a story, no matter how much the critics sniff). It seems to me to be missing the point to say "Avatar was in 3D and made a sack-o-cash, so let's reissue our stuff in 3D and make our own sack-o-cash".



I think that is the crux of the matter. People weren't going to 'see' a film, they were going to be immersed in a new world. I was pretty impressed by that aspect, though I thought the story was pretty dumb.'Unobtainium'? Really?? Still, the appeal is not that different from that of Star Wars, where one wanted to be transported to places one had never seen before. Personally,I like this concept, and I think we'll see more and more 'immersive' experiences'.


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## bryla (Feb 2, 2010)

Was unobtanium really that stupid? If you replace that with oil and Pandora with Iraq... hey!

I saw it last week. I really liked the movie. I didn't feel the 3D effect was used properly. Oftentimes it was just distracting, as object entering the screen in the foreground took the focus of the story. Also for Danish cinemas the subtitles moved around according to where the focus was - pretty smart, but if you tried to focus on something else your head just started to hurt


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## A.C.Edwards (Feb 2, 2010)

I'm gonna get flamed to high hell for this, but hey, im on VI control, im used to it.

I loved Avatar, the animation was a huge leap forward in so many ways, mo cap, rendering, 3d usage. The acting (mainly as a result from the mo cap) was great, although cheesy at times, I think it showed this film didn't take itself massively seriously. The environmental design was just plain stunning, character designs weren't anything overly original and the vehicles were straight from the Book of JC, but hey, it worked. It's a compelling visual experience that sucks you in from the word go. And you know what? The public loves it.

You can't deny the public, in our industry, isnt our jobs to satisfy the public? If the public don't like our music, their not gonna like the film as much, their not gonna be compelled to see it again or indeed our next gig.

That said.

I hated the score. lol

The theme is a blatant rip from titanic, and the scoring techs used at the end were just appauling. Its like pirates of the caribbean when a friggin rhino jumps on screen... overkill? YES.

I did like the african childrens choir uses when Jake was climing the floating mountains though.

Anyway, my point is, at some point, your gonna have to work on a shitty film that you hate. But its money, its work and its exposure. I think if composers just sit their minds on the shitty side of things, their just going to be bitter, arrogant people that directors don't want anything to do with. (ducks for the flames)

(gets a water hose ready) I mean look at Zimmer. Directors love him (mainly coz he goes drinking with most of them ) and he keeps getting good work from directors who are very loyal to him. Same for Williams, Newton Howard.

Any flamage, please be directed to:

P.O. Box 321 IDontCare st.

lol


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## JohnG (Feb 2, 2010)

I think a lot of what you say about the industry, AC, is right on. It's entertainment, not Saving Lives.

As far as the score, there were lots of echoes, with "Glory" most conspicuous among them, for me. Presumably, they used it as temp at the children's choir moments (which were magic -- I wish I wasn't familiar with Glory so it wouldn't have been distracting). Glory is one of the most-used pieces of music in trailers as well -- it's great-sounding and very popular. 

Though naturally we composers have opinions, I assume that any score on a film with a budget this size squeezed its way through many hands during the years in production. As a result, I don't know how to discern what was James Horner's intention and what was Mr. Cameron's or the dubbing mixer's or somebody else's view. I expect that it's a long story.


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## A.C.Edwards (Feb 2, 2010)

Thats very true John. I should have mentioned, although I didn't like the score, the more I read about Cameron's approach with "guiding" the music, the more the blame shifts to him. i guess when they spend that much money, they don't want to take any chances, and to a degree I get that. But if anything the films over the last year have tought us, its that taking chances musically is kind of allowed now days. Look at Sherlock Holmes. An xmas day blockbuster and he used a banjo and helped build a unique instrument?


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