# Aaron Venture Infinite Brass



## erica-grace (Nov 30, 2018)

Another forum member took some heat for posting an opinion on the _Aaron Venture Infinite Brass _thread in the commercial announcements section. As that stuff is really not allowed there, I will respect that, and start this thread.

I actually agreed with the other forum member's opinion - the walkthrough video did not sound very good to my ears. I just listened to AlexanderSchiborr's Star Wars mockup on page 6, and now I am really not liking the sound. Very tinny and buzzy sounding, and very sterile.

How are those of you who purchased getting along with it? Do you like the sound? Is it relatively easy to use? Does it blend in easily with other libraries? 

I would love to hear some user demos, and some other opinions.


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## HBen (Nov 30, 2018)

Can you post some good demos rated as "good ones"? I am also on the fence for this library, and more opinions would be welcome.


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## leon chevalier (Nov 30, 2018)

I was first very excited. But after listening to the demos and walkthrough carefully, it seems to me that it has the same strength and weakness that the two others of it's kind (sample modeling Brass and Chris Hein Brass) : good for quiet stuff and not so good for forte dynamic passage, when you need to hear the room.

I like the easy to use UI that take care of the positioning and the room size. But I don't see enough differences with my sample modeling to buy it. 

This said, if I haven't already bought SM brass, I think I would go for it. I spend too much time configuring SM brass.

This kind of VI is really a good complement for section sampled brass VI. It fill a gap.


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## CT (Nov 30, 2018)

I don't own it, though I wish I could demo it to confirm or deny my gut feelings.

It's appealing to me for the same reason that the Sample Modeling/Wallander instruments are: no-nonsense playability. I also have the same reservations about it as I do those others: tone.

My experience is that this approach sounds all right in isolation, but once you start building large symphonic ensembles, there's a noticable lack of weight. I think that's all down to the lack of real room information in the raw samples. That's just not something you can add back.

For me, that means the decision comes down to realism of playability, or realism of tone. Which can we fake more effectively? Well, we all have different breaking points when it comes to being satisfied by VI's. My ears, at least, are more negatively drawn to an imitation of real space/dodgy tone than they are to an agile musical line done entirely with a "long" patch. That's a pretty extreme example, and playability is rapidly improving with conventional samples, so....


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## Eptesicus (Nov 30, 2018)

The demos don't sound convincing to me.

Not something I will be buying.


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## aaronventure (Nov 30, 2018)

I've gotten comments on the tone from both sides of the spectrum. Tone preference is, in a way, a little bit subjective. Personally, there isn't a single library that I don't drop an EQ on, and some sound outright bad if I turn that EQ off. So tone is pretty simple to change and attune to one's own taste using EQs and/or multiband compression, etc. 

What you can't really affect with plugins is expression and playability. If EQ-ing is the only thing you have to do here (and no convolution/avoiding phasing/wasting too much time to try and make it sit in a mix), then the whole thing works. 

With all that in mind, updates are being worked on. I've gotten great feedback from a couple of folks, and some things aren't always obvious until more people start using a product and fiddling around. The great thing about doing the whole thing dry and having convolution on top is that it's relatively easy for me to go under the hood, the processing projects or even the original recordings and make changes there.

Even if there will be re-recordings in the future as I expand the concept and learn new things, I won't ever charge for updates to existing products.

I'm open to creating a "Character" bank for each instrument. Be it globally, per-room or both. These would be 1-click EQ profiles selected in a menu, so everyone can choose their own preferred tone (or at least get close to it).


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## leon chevalier (Nov 30, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> I've gotten comments on the tone from both sides of the spectrum. Tone preference is, in a way, a little bit subjective. Personally, there isn't a single library that I don't drop an EQ on, and some sound outright bad if I turn that EQ off. So tone is pretty simple to change and attune to one's own taste using EQs and/or multiband compression, etc.
> 
> What you can't really affect with plugins is expression and playability. If EQ-ing is the only thing you have to do here (and no convolution/avoiding phasing/wasting too much time to try and make it sit in a mix), then the whole thing works.
> 
> ...


@aaronventure Congratulation! You just won the award of "Gentleman Developer 2019" 
(Please note that I'm the only judge) 




The way you deal with criticism and turn it into something positive is impressive !
I can't wait to see this update for Infinite Brass


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## Camus (Dec 1, 2018)

Hi guys, I have bought the Infinite Brass and want to add my opinion based on only a quick check of the library without digging deeper. The Big thing is the playability as it is with samplemodelling stuff. The difference (to SM) is that you have the specific placement options preorganized in the room which come in very handy. You can do this with SM also, but in IB it is consequently organized for a quick use in orchestral use. I like that! At least it is a audiophilosophical question: do you want to be able to sculpture your sound in every detail or do you want to have the recorded musicality and sound-sculpture that the real musician decided to do for each tone at the moment he played it. With IB you have to work a lot more to make it lively with the usage of controllers than with a prerecorded dynamically phrased sample where you just hold down a note (I exaggerate a Little) . But you have more opportunity to shape your Dynamics and so on. For me personally I use both methods alongside and the playability of modelled Instruments help to get things more fluent in combination with classically sampled instruments. In fact when checking out IB I was starting to mix it up with other libraries very early and played around with layering. Maybe I was´t totally happy with the sound alone. BUT: I didn´t really - I mean REALLY ! - work with IB and didn´t check out all the possibilities that are there. So that was out of laziness and out of the attempt to get the quick advantage out of this library in my setup. So this is not a real judgement of the sound!!! I´m sure there is more to discover. What I realized is that you have to do quite a bit of work with the Controllers but it starts to get more convincing the more you digg into it. 
For me personally I experienced that IB drastically helps to shape the dynamic and the fluency of lines in combination with other libs. The dynamic feel it can provide is enormous. 
I feel that IB enriches our opportunities. And for what it is, it is a great library. When playing around with the options you have controller-wise you can see that a lot of thoughts about what helps to make it practical and musical and easy to use was flowing into its conception. 
I´m happy with it. 
Well done Aaron


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## Jdiggity1 (Dec 1, 2018)

Looks like a great concept, and it has me excited for the future of sampled instruments. It's always refreshing to see a developer that has thought things through in a musical way, beyond the stock-standard approach of sampling a few articulations and simply mapping them to keyswitches.
However, the biggest difference between Infinite Brass and Sample modeling (for me at least) is that I've heard convincing performances and terrific productions made with sample modeling, but the demos for IB simply aren't quite as impressive yet.
I'm sure this is just due to the age of SM compared to IB which is still a newborn, but really, a demo on par with what I've seen/heard from SM is what it's going to take to win me over.
I'd definitely be trying to find some real brass players who could noodle up a few convincing performances. Have you seen those Sample modeling breath controller videos?? Nutso!

Oh and the EQ Character presets à la LASS is a great idea. Hopefully that is possible.


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## erica-grace (Dec 1, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> I've gotten comments on the tone from both sides of the spectrum. Tone preference is, in a way, a little bit subjective. Personally, there isn't a single library that I don't drop an EQ on, and some sound outright bad if I turn that EQ off. So tone is pretty simple to change and attune to one's own taste using EQs and/or multiband compression, etc.
> 
> What you can't really affect with plugins is expression and playability. If EQ-ing is the only thing you have to do here (and no convolution/avoiding phasing/wasting too much time to try and make it sit in a mix), then the whole thing works.
> 
> ...



Classy response 

Will the Character banks make up for the space where it was recorded?


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## aaronventure (Dec 1, 2018)

erica-grace said:


> Will the Character banks make up for the space where it was recorded



Not sure I get what you mean, could you elaborate a bit more?


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## Paul T McGraw (Dec 1, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> I've gotten comments on the tone from both sides of the spectrum. Tone preference is, in a way, a little bit subjective. Personally, there isn't a single library that I don't drop an EQ on, and some sound outright bad if I turn that EQ off. So tone is pretty simple to change and attune to one's own taste using EQs and/or multiband compression, etc.
> 
> What you can't really affect with plugins is expression and playability. If EQ-ing is the only thing you have to do here (and no convolution/avoiding phasing/wasting too much time to try and make it sit in a mix), then the whole thing works.
> 
> ...



I have been playing around with the library since I purchased it yesterday. I am very impressed! Great concept and terrific execution. 

I doubt if any one product could satisfy everyone. The fans of wet libraries are not likely to appreciate any dry library whether it is VSL, SM, CH or Aaron Venture. (Can we now just say AV?) Perhaps a DAWcast showing how to use EQ to change the tone would be both a good sales tool and good PR, but in my view, taking the time to add preset 1-click EQ profiles might be more trouble than it is worth for you.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of the DAWcast on using EQ with the library. It would also continue to build your rep as an expert pro mixing engineer as well.


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## Gauss (Dec 1, 2018)

I just got my hands on this. I've been playing with this for about an hour. Oh this is fun! I can't play piano well. I can hardly do just a right hand melody and a modwheel ride. But even with my low playing skills I love how this library "knows" what I'm trying to play. This will save me a lot of the time MIDI editing.
The sound is very subjective. I don't like an out-of-the-box "instant gratification" very wet libraries, as alone they sound great, but when you mix them with other libraries they tend to sound very strange and out of place. I like to shape the sound the way I like. Sometimes I'm spending way too much hours turning the knobs up and down. With Infinite Brass I will definitely add an EQ and additional reverb to make it to my liking. But this is something I do with almost all my libraries. Some will say that the recorded sound of a room is better than any digital reverb, but like I said this is very subjective matter.
Overall this is a great library. Especially the way it "feels" how you play the keyboard. is very inspiring.
It's time to rebuild my template...
Also a little question. Why the Mutes are click'n'drag rather than just click or double click?


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## aaronventure (Dec 1, 2018)

Gauss said:


> I love how this library "knows" what I'm trying to play.


Exactly. I'm very glad you're enjoying it.



Gauss said:


> Also a little question. Why the Mutes are click'n'drag rather than just click or double click?


Because it's a slider, so you can map it to a CC controller (and that way even assign them with Expression Maps, or Lemur or whatever hardware buttons you have) so that you don't have to go into Kontakt to switch them, you can do it straight from your controller/in the MIDI clip and swap them throughout the performance.

Also if you make a change during a note, the mute won't be switched until the current note stops playing, so you don't have to worry about nailing these CC messages _exactly_ in between notes.


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## resound (Dec 1, 2018)

I've purchased and only spent a little time with the library. I'm not wild about the tone, but the playability is amazing. It plays like a real instrument. This could turn people off to it because it requires either a good amount of practice (like any instrument) in order to get a good performance, or a lot of time spent tweaking like you see in the walkthrough, or some combination of both. But for me, being able to play in a line and quickly have the musical intent there without having to mess with different articulations make this an incredibly useful tool. 

I love that you can simply hold down the sustain pedal to take it out of legato mode to test chord voicings. I also love that you can easily perform an fp cresc. by starting with the mod wheel all the way down and just hitting a high velocity note. It's sounds much more realistic than trying to perform the same thing with just a breath controller with SM brass, and much easier than stacking a staccato articulation on top of a sustain in any other library.

One complaint is that the french horn attacks (with the mod wheel all the way down) don't sound as dynamic as the rest of the instruments. They seem to have more of a sudden jump in attack, almost like it goes straight from mf to ff. Or maybe it's just the dynamic curve that feels different. It's harder to get the nice punchy short notes.

Also, I wish there was a way to control the volume of the glissando transitions. If you play a note with the mod wheel up high and then play a low velocity legato note to trigger a gliss, the volume dips way down during the gliss and it sounds silly. 

If the tone could be improved to rival the more traditionally recorded sample libraries, this would be a killer library. I look forward to seeing what ideas Aaron has to improve the tone. Even despite this, I think this is a great library, especially regarding the new concepts in playability that he has introduced/improved upon.


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## HelixK (Dec 1, 2018)

If you are used to working with wet samples, and I believe it's the case with most composers here, I understand the shock of listening to exposed dry recordings like Infinite Brass. They don't sound pretty. And they are not supposed to sound pretty. They are performance instruments that breathe life if you put an effort to sculpt your lines.

And since they are bone dry recordings, you can mix them with pretty much anything. You might want to experiment layering IB with Cinebrass or Hollywood Brass... I bet it's going to be like one of those revelation moments when you hear the expression that a library like Infinite Brass can add to your virtual performances.

Like cooking, you add things here and there, see what happens and then maybe adjust it a little bit. Simmer it in for a couple hours for a smooth savory blend or go for a quick healthy meal, neither is right or wrong, it all depends on the flavor you want in the end. Have fun, it's a creative process, don't be afraid to overcook it, you will eventually get just the "right" amount of seasoning and create delicious dishes. Everyone is going to be asking for your recipes


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## NoamL (Dec 1, 2018)

@christianhenson no longer posts here sadly but this conversation reminded me of a video he made. You don't have to agree but it's an interesting argument:

(5:24)


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## resound (Dec 1, 2018)

I agree that the room is part of the sound when it comes to low brass, and I understand Christian's point. But that's what a convolution reverb does. It's emulates the response of the room to a sound by using algorithms created from recorded responses. So it will never be quite the same, but in theory we should be able to get much closer to a realistic sound with these tools. I think either the algorithms have not yet been perfected, or there is a problem in the way dry samples are recorded, or likely a combination of both.

How are dry samples usually recorded? The fact that low brass loses it's low end/warmth/etc. when dry samples are run through a convolution reverb tells me that maybe the low frequencies are not being captured enough in the dry samples. Higher frequencies have shorter wavelengths and travel faster while lower frequencies have much longer wavelengths and travel much slower, so sticking the mic in the bell of a tuba, for ex., is probably not the best choice since the lowest frequencies wouldn't have a chance to full develop before they hit the mic. I don't know if this is how dry samples are recorded, but the point is that mic placement for dry samples needs a lot more thought than, say, placing the brass on stage in seating position and putting up tree mics.


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## CT (Dec 1, 2018)

HelixK said:


> If you are used to working with wet samples, and I believe it's the case with most composers here, I understand the shock of listening to exposed dry recordings like Infinite Brass. They don't sound pretty. And they are not supposed to sound pretty. They are performance instruments that breathe life if you put an effort to sculpt your lines.



I doubt it's that simple for most of us here. Who doesn't know what exposed, dry samples sound like by now, or that VI's of any type require real performance for best results?

Like I said above, it just comes down to a choice between hyper-playability and convincing sound. I don't think any current options satisfy both of those needs, and for now, at least, I think sampling with space and perspective in mind coupled with clever scripting is winning out over the dry/centered/anechoic/modeled/etc. approach.

I've been listening to real orchestras, live and recorded, for more than 20 years now, and I've gotten extremely particular about the sound of the real thing, and the sound of what we do with computers. I also play every note in as a performance, so both of these matter to me. I just don't think you can fudge the former as well as the latter.



resound said:


> I don't know if this is how dry samples are recorded, but the point is that mic placement for dry samples needs a lot more thought than, say, placing the brass on stage in seating position and putting up tree mics.



This is exactly right, I think. The real problem isn't dry vs. wet, it's close vs. far. You can record brass with real distance, in a space without much tail at all, and end up with something that both sounds realistic and can be flexibly scripted. Capturing real depth and perspective doesn't mean you have to capture 4 seconds of RT too....


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## Lassi Tani (Dec 1, 2018)

Playability looks really really great, we can all agree on that. Tonewise I'm a bit underwhelmed by the demos and the walkthrough. I quite like the trumpet sound, but not so much the tone of the horns and bones. I feel like they're missing something, the body or the roundness of the tone, which actually is the same thing with Samplemodeling brass too. I love the sound of SM trumpets. I think Christian has a point in his video that it's tough to create a convincing sound from dry recordings and a reverb especially with low brass.

Of course this is a very new library, and I understand that demos and walkthroughs are always a bit rough in the beginning. I'm looking forward to hearing more demos, especially if they utilize the upcoming EQ presets.



miket said:


> Like I said above, it just comes down to a choice between hyper-playability and convincing sound. I don't think any current options satisfy both of those needs, and for now, at least, I think sampling with space and perspective in mind coupled with clever scripting is winning out over the dry/centered/anechoic/modeled/etc. approach.



We'll see what Audiobro's offering. It seems that MSB will be recorded in a scoring stage not too dry and not too wet. I just got Genesis a few days ago, and I'm amazed by its playability. I can't wait to hear how MSB will sound.

We're living interesting times, when sample libraries are released with new approaches on playability.


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## CT (Dec 1, 2018)

sekkosiki said:


> We're living interesting times, when sample libraries are released with new approaches on playability



And we all benefit with each new creation. Whether or not this or any library is for me, they all push things forward.


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## erica-grace (Dec 1, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Not sure I get what you mean, could you elaborate a bit more?



The room and body that Christian mentions in his video (thank you Noam  )


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## ZeeCount (Dec 1, 2018)

erica-grace said:


> The room and body that Christian mentions in his video (thank you Noam  )



The issue I take with that video, is that Christian just used a single reverb. You can quite very similar results to the tree mic by cascading a smaller, completely wet reverb, into a larger one. The smaller reverb creates the body you are describing, and the larger one creates the feeling of the tail in the hall.


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## leon chevalier (Dec 1, 2018)

ZeeCount said:


> The issue I take with that video, is that Christian just used a single reverb. You can quite very similar results to the tree mic by cascading a smaller, completely wet reverb, into a larger one. The smaller reverb creates the body you are describing, and the larger one creates the feeling of the tail in the hall.


It's my way of doing it to, a short convo and an algo for the tail. I've made some tutorials (for SM but it applies to all dry instrument) about it : 
 
and 
 

But I'm not 100% happy about the sound, for the all the reasons discussed in this thread.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 1, 2018)

leon chevalier said:


> It's my way of doing it to, a short convo and an algo for the tail. I've made some tutorials (for SM but it applies to all dry instrument) about it :
> 
> and
> 
> ...






Nice tutorial and good information there. I like also to do tests with SM picking up a famous line and see what I can do with it.
Here is my take on the vader march with SM.


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## ZeeCount (Dec 1, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> @All: Aaron is already working on some improvements. I am getting these days something to betatest for the trombones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have to admit... that sounds a lot better than the one you posted in the Infinite Brass comercial thread. Excellent work.


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## leon chevalier (Dec 1, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> @All: Aaron is already working on some improvements. I am getting these days something to betatest for the trombones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your Vader March sound good !


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## Saxer (Dec 2, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Here is my take on the vader march with SM.


Sounds great! What did you do to make this sound?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 2, 2018)

Saxer said:


> Sounds great! What did you do to make this sound?


Lots of eq..roll of the lows, roll of the highs, attenuating the mids on trombones and trumpets, but the more I dive into sm, I realize also you need to perform it right, so that means to ride a lot of controller curves, which imo very important. So I used here not only CC1, CC11, but also Growl, Buzz, Pitch fluctuation, detuning, and Dynamics to pitch and each instruments has these controllers performed in a different way. Thats quite some work because you have for every instrument like 6 controllers..Another point is that you need a reference to work with in order to have a perspective of the sound. Also mid / side eq is good to get ride a bit of the mid centered frequencies quite a bit.


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## Saxer (Dec 2, 2018)

Absolutely worth the work! A lot of that work is already done when using a wind controller. There's always pitch fluctuation and playing 'dirty' is easier than playing tight (because of the latency). But editing wind controller data is very tricky because it's a hell of CC and pitch and dead notes and the you can't quantize because of disconnecting the breath curves from the notes. And those triple tongues are not possible to play... it's too slow. So it's always a combination of playing and constructing.


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## aaronventure (Dec 2, 2018)

resound said:


> One complaint is that the french horn attacks (with the mod wheel all the way down) don't sound as dynamic as the rest of the instruments. They seem to have more of a sudden jump in attack, almost like it goes straight from mf to ff. Or maybe it's just the dynamic curve that feels different. It's harder to get the nice punchy short notes.


Something I'll be looking into as well.



resound said:


> Also, I wish there was a way to control the volume of the glissando transitions. If you play a note with the mod wheel up high and then play a low velocity legato note to trigger a gliss, the volume dips way down during the gliss and it sounds silly.


You mean how much the dynamics dip during a transition on a low velocity note for intervals of 3 semitones and fewer? This is doable, I could look to push this to all instruments in the next update, or the one after. Good call.


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## aaronventure (Dec 2, 2018)

resound said:


> so sticking the mic in the bell of a tuba, for ex., is probably not the best choice since the lowest frequencies wouldn't have a chance to full develop before they hit the mic


You can bump up the lowest overtone for each note manually. You can't, however, create the highest overtones that got air-absorbed out of thin air or boost them without also boosting the noise from the recording.

Lower frequencies build up much more easily in a room. It's why an impulse response that's recorded at a longer distance in a bigger room than something relatively close will have more lower end.



erica-grace said:


> The room and body that Christian mentions in his video (thank you Noam  )


They would be just detailed EQ presets. They wouldn't add more reflections or change the existing ones, they would just change the tone (see . I'm afraid that dampening or even multiband dampening like you have in standalone convolution reverbs won't be available until it's implemented in Kontakt's convolution unit.


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## Paul T McGraw (Dec 2, 2018)

NoamL said:


> @christianhenson no longer posts here sadly but this conversation reminded me of a video he made. You don't have to agree but it's an interesting argument:
> 
> (5:24)




I would be more convinced if he had matched volumes. With the volumes so much different it is hard to compare. I have Spitfire Orchestra, Berlin Brass and several dry libraries. When I match volumes and also match reverb qualitiy the differences seem to melt away. There are still some very subtle differences of course, but not a huge difference as Christian seems to want us to think.


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## Henu (Dec 2, 2018)

Concerning Christian's video and the coincidence that I've been trying to replicate the AIR (+ some others) room sound on different libraries (OR dry Spitfire Instruments from woodwinds to brass and back) for fun for the whole weekend, I disagree with him to an extent.

Not only weren't his sounds level-matched, but what he did was just slapping a lazy hall reverb to the dry tuba (which is, as he also stated, pretty much the hardest thing you could pick up for a comparison like this), playing a couple of notes and called it a day. As anyone could hear, the EQ curve was already completely different on the dry sound, so of course it doesn't sound like the real deal. You can pretty much 90% replicate the sound of tree mikes with very precise and time-consuming EQ and reverberation- but in general it takes about three different reverbs (distance, ER, tail) which also need to be EQ'd properly. And still, you will lack some of the depth and certain "3d" on the sound.

Most certainly, it is doable to be way more closer than what Christian did.
But is it worth it? For me, when mixing libraries and being able to put them to the same room convincingly enough (and especially a room of my own preference) no matter the library: absolutely. 
For someone else it might be just waste of time and utter nerdism and/or autism. I'm kind of a geek in this area and one of my personal interests in audio production (which I also do for my living when I'm not composing) is to replicate things as accurately as I can, so I take these things more as a challenge instead of an utopistic idea.

EDIT:

Here are two examples I quickly did, noodling around with Skyrim theme.

The Brass is tree vs. close mic faked and the Flute is the same thing. Besides the EQ and the space, the stereo image is also bit different in close mics so there are a lot of moving parts to consider. It's nowhere near perfect and I'm still tweaking the sound as we speak, but I think it's close enough to prove Christian wrong. :D

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/brass-mp3.16834/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/flute1-mp3.16835/][/AUDIOPLUS]

EDIT 2: Goddamn the close flute mike has quite a lot of "mouth" in it, haha!


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## Karl Feuerstake (Dec 2, 2018)

I wasnt going to reply to this thread to avoid too much controversy... but i'll give a brief input. People who have tight deadlines and need to produce music by tomorrow can't spend all day finding and preparing the perfect reverb. Thats why I prefer wet, baked-in sounds - no messing around, just instant perfection working right out of the box. 

I understand and appreciate that others may enjoy writing as a hobby and have the time to fiddle around. And to that I say, have fun


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 2, 2018)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I wasnt going to reply to this thread to avoid too much controversy... but i'll give a brief input. People who have tight deadlines and need to produce music by tomorrow can't spend all day finding and preparing the perfect reverb. Thats why I prefer wet, baked-in sounds - no messing around, just instant perfection working right out of the box.
> 
> I understand and appreciate that others may enjoy writing as a hobby and have the time to fiddle around. And to that I say, have fun



why? You can always reply and tell your opinion. But just to demystify that thing that instant gratification is mostly tied to baked in verb. I am working (for quite some time) not as a hobby musician and fiddling around with verbs isn´t always for people who do that just as a hobby. I may agree that samples with baked in verb give you a specific sound and "here we go ambience" which in case its needed for the project is good, but its not always like that. And there are certainly more factors which are important when it comes to production value.  (just my opinion of course..)


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## Karl Feuerstake (Dec 2, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> why? You can always reply and tell your opinion. But just to demystify that thing that instant gratification is mostly tied to baked in verb. I am working (for quite some time) not as a hobby musician and fiddling around with verbs isn´t always for people who do that just as a hobby. I may agree that samples with baked in verb give you a specific sound and "here we go ambience" which in case its needed for the project is good, but its not always like that. And there are certainly more factors which are important when it comes to production value.  (just my opinion of course..)



I don't have the time or patience for that


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## CT (Dec 2, 2018)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I wasnt going to reply to this thread to avoid too much controversy... but i'll give a brief input. People who have tight deadlines and need to produce music by tomorrow can't spend all day finding and preparing the perfect reverb. Thats why I prefer wet, baked-in sounds - no messing around, just instant perfection working right out of the box.
> 
> I understand and appreciate that others may enjoy writing as a hobby and have the time to fiddle around. And to that I say, have fun



True.

Even without deadlines, some of us just want a good, baseline sound so we can focus entirely on the music.

I used to think I had the patience and interest required to tinker and inch asymptotically towards my idea of a good sound. I was mistaken.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 2, 2018)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I don't have the time or patience for that



I feel the pain :D


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## DANIELE (Dec 10, 2018)

Sorry, I post it here:

Hi Aaron, could I ask you to make a tutorial to show how to achieve special effects (like rips and other FX) and maybe think to an articulation parallel method to achieve some of this easily, like with SM Brass?

I can't wait for the updates to come. I'm enjoying your library and trying to set it up for my template.

Thank you.


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## robgb (Dec 10, 2018)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> Thats why I prefer wet, baked-in sounds - no messing around, just instant perfection working right out of the box.


Which ultimately leads to to everyone having the same baked-in sound. Not the worst thing in the world, by any means, especially if you're making money.


miket said:


> Even without deadlines, some of us just want a good, baseline sound so we can focus entirely on the music.


For me a good baseline sound is a dry sound that I can play with. I find the mixing to be PART of the music, personally. But I get your point.


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## aaronventure (Dec 10, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> Sorry, I post it here:
> 
> Hi Aaron, could I ask you to make a tutorial to show how to achieve special effects (like rips and other FX) and maybe think to an articulation parallel method to achieve some of this easily, like with SM Brass?
> 
> ...



Yeah, I can do that. More detail into rips, bends clusters, bends and general aleatorics. Any more specifics or examples you'd like to see?

Regarding updates, I was initially planning to release them 1 by 1, but decided to do a bigger one instead which will cover all the instruments. If everything continues to go according to plan, it should be live by the end of the week.


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## DANIELE (Dec 11, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Yeah, I can do that. More detail into rips, bends clusters, bends and general aleatorics. Any more specifics or examples you'd like to see?
> 
> Regarding updates, I was initially planning to release them 1 by 1, but decided to do a bigger one instead which will cover all the instruments. If everything continues to go according to plan, it should be live by the end of the week.



First of all, I'm very happy to have bought your library, your support is great, I think it is very rare.

Basically for the articulation/FXs you could listen to some John Williams soundtrack.

Anyway I'd like to see covered pretty every possible "special articulation" like:


Pitch bends and bends in general (as you already said);
Rips (up and down);
Runs (up and down);
More on double, triple tonguing (you already showed some in the walkthrough);
Trills (this is an easy one);
Fortepiano;
Some repetitions (16th notes maybe, to show how shorts work in a repetition phrase);
Sforzando;
There's another one but I don't remember how it's called. It's a sort of explosion, I managed to do it in an old piece of mine by working a lot on an articulation I had (I don't remember the library name, it was a long time ago). The track is this (02:30 and it repeats after a few seconds):


Listen carefully because it is not in the foreground. It's some sort of sforzando, a sort of blow/staccato. I don't know, I'm not a brass player. Let me know if you understand.

If some other thing came to my mind I'll let you know.

Obviously I think I know how to do some of them technically but the goal is how to achieve them realistically.

Another note: I like so much the possibility to switch between velocity or dynamics for the attack, I think I'll use this a lot in a possible strings library. For the brass I'm going all on the dynamics because it happened that while I'm doing a soft passage I pressed to hard the keys and I got a strong attack. I did this also to align the brass with SM brass, I'm using a breath controller.

I have still to do more experiments and maybe I'll go again for the first method.

PS I'm happy to hear that an update will came in a few days.


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## DANIELE (Dec 19, 2018)

Hi Aaron, any news on the update and the tutorial? I'm waiting for the update to end my template rebuilding.

Thank you.


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## aaronventure (Dec 20, 2018)

Update 1.1 is live now. Everyone who purchased has already received an email. 

*Patch Notes – v1.1 (December 20th 2018)*
*Global*

Processing of samples scaled back — less modwheel input required for a more natural sound
Pitch fluctuation adjustments for all instruments — better-sounding unisons
Project vision moved away from having different "colors" on different positions — re-balanced all of the IRs towards a consistent tone of each instrument family across all positions/rooms (room resonances remain untouched).
Added the Playable Vibrato switch for each instrument (the "Play" icon next to the Vibrato Intensity slider) — Switching it off will prevent you from playing vibrato right on the modwheel, and prevent the script from making predictions as to whether you're attempting to play vibrato based on the modwheel pattern, as well as causing minor pitch changes on fast movements
Dynamic Range slider extended, and maintaining roughly the same volume across all dynamics is now possible

*Trombones*

Minor adjustments to attack strength based on velocity (a bit easier to play softer attacks)
Breath fluctuation adjustments in the lower octaves - more natural sound
Fixed imaging on Spot mics for positions R 1 - R 6 in the Scoring Stage

*Tubas*

IR Mic Positions Re-Mixed - a more roomy sound on Main and Ambient mics
Breath fluctuation adjustments in the lower octaves - more natural sound

*Trumpets*

Minor adjustments to the way attacks sound
Breath fluctuation adjustments across the entire range

*Horns *

Breath fluctuation adjustments across the entire range


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## I like music (Dec 20, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Update 1.1 is live now. Everyone who purchased has already received an email.
> 
> *Patch Notes – v1.1 (December 20th 2018)*
> *Global*
> ...



Sweet. @aaronventure - I know that people will have differing views on the tone of the instruments (though that said, very very sample libraries are spared that critique!) but I'm loving the agility of these. 

Due to work, I wasn't able to do justice to an Independence Day mockup, and the truth is, I really don't know what I'm doing when it comes to mocking up. That said, I found mocking up those ridiculous trumpet figures from the opening of Independence Day, an absolute breeze. The performance/feeling of the instruments is superb. And when I say that, I'm coming from the POV of someone who can only draw these things in, as I just can't play. And it is awesome to sculpt everything in one track.

Looking forward to downloading this and seeing the difference.


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## aaronventure (Dec 20, 2018)

I like music said:


> I know that people will have differing views on the tone of the instruments


This is a very big part of the update. I think you'll love it.

I'm also glad you're really getting the use out of these and finding it a breeze. It should be even better and slightly easier now!


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## DANIELE (Dec 20, 2018)

Thank you so much Aaron, I can't wait to try it out.


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## mcalis (Dec 20, 2018)

I don't own the product (yet) but the kind of support you're giving is truly one of a kind. Keep up the good work Aaron!


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## DANIELE (Dec 20, 2018)

mcalis said:


> I don't own the product (yet) but the kind of support you're giving is truly one of a kind. Keep up the good work Aaron!



It's a joy to support these developers.


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## I like music (Dec 20, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> This is a very big part of the update. I think you'll love it.
> 
> I'm also glad you're really getting the use out of these and finding it a breeze. It should be even better and slightly easier now!



Thank you. I contacted fastspring to ask them how to get v1.1. I was sent a link to download the library again. I extracted the compressed file and simply pointed it to where the original library was. I'm assuming this does the trick @aaronventure ?

What's the best way for me to check/confirm that I am actually using the updated version?

Thanks!


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## robgb (Dec 20, 2018)

leon chevalier said:


> when you need to hear the room.


ADD the room.


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## leon chevalier (Dec 20, 2018)

robgb said:


> ADD the room.


Thanks for the tip


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## aaronventure (Dec 20, 2018)

I like music said:


> Thank you. I contacted fastspring to ask them how to get v1.1. I was sent a link to download the library again. I extracted the compressed file and simply pointed it to where the original library was. I'm assuming this does the trick @aaronventure ?
> 
> What's the best way for me to check/confirm that I am actually using the updated version?
> 
> Thanks!


Folder should be called "Aaron Venture Infinite Brass 1.1". Move it wherever you want, and use the instruments from that folder. Remove the old one if you wish. I wouldn't suggest merging folders, as then your old projects will use the new stuff, but with old Instruments.


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## DANIELE (Dec 21, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Folder should be called "Aaron Venture Infinite Brass 1.1". Move it wherever you want, and use the instruments from that folder. Remove the old one if you wish. I wouldn't suggest merging folders, as then your old projects will use the new stuff, but with old Instruments.



Wait, I overwritten the old stuff with the new stuff from folder 1.1 (the new instruments too) then I loaded a template with your instruments in it. It should be updated with the new instruments, how is it possible that it uses the old ones?


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## I like music (Dec 21, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> Wait, I overwritten the old stuff with the new stuff from folder 1.1 (the new instruments too) then I loaded a template with your instruments in it. It should be updated with the new instruments, how is it possible that it uses the old ones?



I did the same thing! I guess I'll reload the instruments _just_ in case.


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## DANIELE (Dec 21, 2018)

I like music said:


> I did the same thing! I guess I'll reload the instruments _just_ in case.



My template in Reaper has all the tracks offline so it loads faster. Every time I want to play or use some track I put it online and then I play it. By doing this the instrument loads every time I open a new template and I put online the tracks. I think it is enough but correct me if I'm wrong.


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## aaronventure (Dec 21, 2018)

You *HAVE *to swap in the new instruments. The NKIs that you load into your Kontakt instance are saved in the project itself.

You can try it out: Load an instrument into a Kontakt instance, save the project, exit DAW, rename the library folder and try open the project again. It won't be able to locate the files, but it will still be able to load the NKI. It won't load the resources so if you head over to the script editor, it will be empty and the GUI will be all messed up.

So right now you're using v1.1 IRs, scripts and samples with v1.0 instruments. Just replace them.


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## I like music (Dec 21, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> You *HAVE *to swap in the new instruments. The NKIs that you load into your Kontakt instance are saved in the project itself.
> 
> You can try it out: Load an instrument into a Kontakt instance, save the project, exit DAW, rename the library folder and try open the project again. It won't be able to locate the files, but it will still be able to load the NKI. It won't load the resources so if you head over to the script editor, it will be empty and the GUI will be all messed up.
> 
> So right now you're using v1.1 IRs, scripts and samples with v1.0 instruments. Just replace them.



Thank you! Very helpful as always, Aaron.


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## DANIELE (Dec 21, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> You *HAVE *to swap in the new instruments. The NKIs that you load into your Kontakt instance are saved in the project itself.
> 
> You can try it out: Load an instrument into a Kontakt instance, save the project, exit DAW, rename the library folder and try open the project again. It won't be able to locate the files, but it will still be able to load the NKI. It won't load the resources so if you head over to the script editor, it will be empty and the GUI will be all messed up.
> 
> So right now you're using v1.1 IRs, scripts and samples with v1.0 instruments. Just replace them.



So even if I put my tracks offline I have to replace the patch, right? By doing like this I loose all my custom settings on the instruments (learned CCs etc...), is there a way to preserve them?


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## I like music (Dec 21, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> So even if I put my tracks offline I have to replace the patch, right? By doing like this I loose all my custom settings on the instruments (learned CCs etc...), is there a way to preserve them?



Luckily, I'm fair lazier than you, so I will probably be able to get away with simply reloading. See? Pays to be lazy sometimes.


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## DANIELE (Dec 21, 2018)

I like music said:


> Luckily, I'm fair lazier than you, so I will probably be able to get away with simply reloading. See? Pays to be lazy sometimes.





Usually I don't change anything difficult on the instruments but things like this need to be editet and customized a lot...

I should find a way to avoid this everytime an update came out. I hope Aaron could help me on this.


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## I like music (Dec 21, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> Usually I don't change anything difficult on the instruments but things like this need to be editet and customized a lot...
> 
> I should find a way to avoid this everytime an update came out. I hope Aaron could help me on this.



Have you tried the new instruments? Work was crazy today so I didn't get the chance to use them (though I did load them up in my Independence Day mockup attempt)


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## aaronventure (Dec 21, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> I should find a way to avoid this everytime an update came out. I hope Aaron could help me on this.


Unfortunately no way around it. You can either choose manually re-map all your CC controllers, or manually do all the instrument changes in the backend 

Come on, remapping CCs might be a bit annoying, but doesn't in any way take more than 5 minutes. Open Kontakt's MIDI Automation tab on the left, and just drag-n-drop.


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## DANIELE (Dec 22, 2018)

I like music said:


> Have you tried the new instruments? Work was crazy today so I didn't get the chance to use them (though I did load them up in my Independence Day mockup attempt)



No I didn't manage to try it out, I was at work. I'll try them today.


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## DANIELE (Dec 22, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Unfortunately no way around it. You can either choose manually re-map all your CC controllers, or manually do all the instrument changes in the backend
> 
> Come on, remapping CCs might be a bit annoying, but doesn't in any way take more than 5 minutes. Open Kontakt's MIDI Automation tab on the left, and just drag-n-drop.



Darth Vader mode on

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! 

Darth Vader mode off



Ok I'm kidding, well it's not a long thing but it's 5 minutes for one instrument, I have to do this on all my brass section.


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## DANIELE (Dec 22, 2018)

I think I'm using the 1.1 instruments, am I right?


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## aaronventure (Dec 22, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> I think I'm using the 1.1 instruments, am I right?


Looks like it, yeah, the Play icon near the vibrato slider is the new addition (playable vibrato switch)


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## DANIELE (Dec 22, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Looks like it, yeah, the Play icon near the vibrato slider is the new addition (playable vibrato switch)



Infact, I'm thinking the same.

I noticed the icon you are talking about, so I found that putting offline the instrument solves everything. I don't have to redo the configuration on every update.

So now you are free to give us an update every week.


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## HelixK (Dec 22, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Yeah, I can do that. More detail into rips, bends clusters, bends and general aleatorics. Any more specifics or examples you'd like to see?
> 
> Regarding updates, I was initially planning to release them 1 by 1, but decided to do a bigger one instead which will cover all the instruments. If everything continues to go according to plan, it should be live by the end of the week.



Hey Aaron are you still doing the tutorial?


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## aaronventure (Dec 22, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> Infact, I'm thinking the same.
> 
> I noticed the icon you are talking about, so I found that putting offline the instrument solves everything. I don't have to redo the configuration on every update.
> 
> So now you are free to give us an update every week.


I mean look, the old instrument was also loading the container from the folder, which is where the scripts are at. So if you just pasted over the new container, merely reloading the old instruments will load the new script, but any changes I've made to the .nkis themselves (modulation, inserts, etc) won't be there, because you have to swap in the new ones. Like I said, when you're loading a project, the .nkis are loaded in from the project file. They don't contain samples themselves, they just point to the samples and link to the script(s) in the container.



HelixK said:


> Hey Aaron are you still doing the tutorial?


I am, I just wanted to push the update first, since it's such a major upgrade sound-wise. Also the walkthrough will be updated (DAW output replaced with re-performed v1.1 instruments) and I'll do a tighter Sequencing video.


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## DANIELE (Dec 22, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> I mean look, the old instrument was also loading the container from the folder, which is where the scripts are at. So if you just pasted over the new container, merely reloading the old instruments will load the new script, but any changes I've made to the .nkis themselves (modulation, inserts, etc) won't be there, because you have to swap in the new ones. Like I said, when you're loading a project, the .nkis are loaded in from the project file. They don't contain samples themselves, they just point to the samples and link to the script(s) in the container.



Well, I don't know exactly how a kontakt library works but I overwritten everything on the previous version of the library.

My template has everything offline so the libraries are not loaded. When I put a track online Kontakt loads and the library loads as it was a new loaded patch.

Moreover if I see the new icon how is it possible that I'm using the old instrument? I think that in the reloading process it loads the patch as a new instrument.

EDIT
What if I use the Kontakt Snapshot function to save settings?


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## aaronventure (Dec 22, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> Well, I don't know exactly how a kontakt library works but I overwritten everything on the previous version of the library.
> 
> My template has everything offline so the libraries are not loaded. When I put a track online Kontakt loads and the library loads as it was a new loaded patch.
> 
> Moreover if I see the new icon how is it possible that I'm using the old instrument? I think that in the reloading process it loads the patch as a new instrument.


Icon is a switch that is declared in the script. The icon itself is a picture in the resources folder. The old instrument was pointing to the container that youve overwritten. Script names havent changed, so its just loading the new script. Doesn't matter of theyre purged, theyre in the Kontakt instance. The settings of that disabled instance are nonetheless saved in your project. These include the nkis themselves.

As i said, try loading an instrument, saving the project, closing the DAW, renaming the folder of whatever instrument you loaded, then reopening. 

It wont find nor the samples nor the container. If you now click on "Skip Missing", the nki itself will still be loaded, with all of its backend stuff in place, but with no script and no samples. The instrument is saved in the project. I've made changes to the instrument itself and its part of the update. If you want the whole thing, you gotta swap them.


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## DANIELE (Dec 22, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Icon is a switch that is declared in the script. The icon itself is a picture in the resources folder. The old instrument was pointing to the container that youve overwritten. Script names havent changed, so its just loading the new script. Doesn't matter of theyre purged, theyre in the Kontakt instance. The settings of that disabled instance are nonetheless saved in your project. These include the nkis themselves.
> 
> As i said, try loading an instrument, saving the project, closing the DAW, renaming the folder of whatever instrument you loaded, then reopening.
> 
> It wont find nor the samples nor the container. If you now click on "Skip Missing", the nki itself will still be loaded, with all of its backend stuff in place, but with no script and no samples. The instrument is saved in the project. I've made changes to the instrument itself and its part of the update. If you want the whole thing, you gotta swap them.



Ok, now I understand better what you meant! 

And what about the snapshot funcion? It could be useful to implement some sort of settings menu in the instrument so you can load different CC and status profiles.


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## aaronventure (Dec 22, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> Ok, now I understand better what you meant!
> 
> And what about the snapshot funcion? It could be useful to implement some sort of settings menu in the instrument so you can load different CC and status profiles.


Infinite Brass works "on ui_control", so that all controllers are easily assignable by right-clicking and moving it/dragging it from the MIDI automation tab. Snapshots don't preserve this. If you have your own set of preferred CC controllers, you can save the instrument so that when you load it the next time, the controller mappings are whatever you saved them as.

An alternative (if you want to avoid having to remap them all again on the next update) is to set up MIDI CC routings (Reaper has a default MIDI CC Mapper, or you can find CC Mapper X on the Reaper forum) on your MIDI tracks instead to route your preferred CC controllers to the default ones in Infinite Brass. That way, if it's an insert like Reaper's CC Mappers, you only ever do it once, then copy and paste to other tracks, and load all current and future instances of Infinite Brass (and other future libraries) without having to do it.


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## DANIELE (Dec 23, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Infinite Brass works "on ui_control", so that all controllers are easily assignable by right-clicking and moving it/dragging it from the MIDI automation tab. Snapshots don't preserve this. If you have your own set of preferred CC controllers, you can save the instrument so that when you load it the next time, the controller mappings are whatever you saved them as.
> 
> An alternative (if you want to avoid having to remap them all again on the next update) is to set up MIDI CC routings (Reaper has a default MIDI CC Mapper, or you can find CC Mapper X on the Reaper forum) on your MIDI tracks instead to route your preferred CC controllers to the default ones in Infinite Brass. That way, if it's an insert like Reaper's CC Mappers, you only ever do it once, then copy and paste to other tracks, and load all current and future instances of Infinite Brass (and other future libraries) without having to do it.



Infact I already did this, I already had CC Mapper X and I put it on all my instruments so I don't have to modify CCs every time I get an update. It works very well.

So definitely I could do like this:

1) Use snapshot for UI settings (fader position etc...);

2) Use CC Mapper X for custom CC settings.

I noticed that the new instruments use less ram than the previous ones.

I have another question: by using the snapshot function could I risk to break some of your internal nki settings for the new updates? (I mean the wrench key settings)

Thank you for your support and for this wonderful library. I like it so much, I feel that the sound it's a little warmer than the previous version. I have to try this library in some track to setup it correctly.


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## aaronventure (Dec 23, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> So definitely I could do like this:
> 
> 1) Use snapshot for UI settings (fader position etc...);
> 
> 2) Use CC Mapper X for custom CC settings.



Yeah, that'll work great.


DANIELE said:


> could I risk to break some of your internal nki settings for the new updates?


I don't think so, no.



DANIELE said:


> I noticed that the new instruments use less ram than the previous ones.


Yeah, slightly.



DANIELE said:


> Thank you for your support and for this wonderful library. I like it so much, I feel that the sound it's a little warmer than the previous version. I have to try this library in some track to setup it correctly.


No, thank you and everyone who offered feedback (and to a certain user who wrote a 2000-word description on how replicate a certain note-hang bug—you know who you are ) and suggestions. As long as there's feedback, I'll continue to make improvements wherever possible.

It does sound much more "natural" overall, and the unisons sound better (due to pitch variation changes). I settled on an overall sound color and re-balanced everything towards it, as it will now make your own EQ treatment much more consistent and it paves way for Character Profiles coming in the next update.

Here's a very quick play-in. First is v1.0, second is v1.1. Both are straight out of the box, and there's only a scoop at 300hz on the master (for both) taking out that lower mid-range in order to sound more like the reference recording.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/ib11-ex1-mp3.17370/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## I like music (Dec 23, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Yeah, that'll work great.
> 
> I don't think so, no.
> 
> ...



The saddest thing here is that after downloading the update, I won't have had the chance to play with this until January ...

That does sound better to my ears.

Aaron, I may mail you some questions directly (about tips and tricks on a few things I'm trying to do) if you wouldn't mind.


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## DANIELE (Dec 23, 2018)

Great, I can't wait for the incoming updates and tutorials.

In the meantime while I use them I'll try to give some more feedback.


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## aaronventure (Dec 23, 2018)

I like music said:


> Aaron, I may mail you some questions directly (about tips and tricks on a few things I'm trying to do) if you wouldn't mind.


Please do.


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## DANIELE (Dec 25, 2018)

I almost forgot a thing! I noticed that at dynamics 0 I still hear a ppp sound, is it possible to start from silence (useful for very soft passages or for a piece start or ending)?

Thank you.


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## aaronventure (Dec 26, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> I almost forgot a thing! I noticed that at dynamics 0 I still hear a ppp sound, is it possible to start from silence (useful for very soft passages or for a piece start or ending)?
> 
> Thank you.



Right now you have three options:

1. Manually dial in the volume fades using CC11 (the Volume slider in the UI). Depending on how often you wanna start or end with the silence, this might be the best option. 

2. Use a CC Mapper to link CC11 to CC1, and create a curve that will do exactly that - have a volume impact at the lowest values of CC1. 

3. If you plan on using CC11 and don't want it perma-linked to CC1, assign a controller to the actual volume slider of the instrument (upper right corner) and then link that to CC1.


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## DANIELE (Jan 8, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> Right now you have three options:
> 
> 1. Manually dial in the volume fades using CC11 (the Volume slider in the UI). Depending on how often you wanna start or end with the silence, this might be the best option.
> 
> ...



Happy new year!

Actually I think I'll go for the 1 (I already know how to do it). I'd like to do it with one control but I imagine that this has to do with the scripts behind the curtains. I had the same "issue" with some audio modeling instruments and by using the second option (or the third one) you loose the release of the instrument by using a breath controller. The solution will be 14bit MIDI but it's a long story.

Talking about improovements you could put some options to have a more fat "epic" sound or a more orchestral one in the UI (by working on some EQing and convolution reverb on the instruments): I tried to compare 1 IB horn with 1 Cinematic Studio Brass Horn and I feel the differences. I don't like CSB for the low playability anyway.
I tried already to use only the ambient mic but it is not the same.

I love your instruments and I love the sound of them (I'll buy it again) but I think that having this choice will be a great improvement, if possible obviously. I want to be clear: I don't want to loose the sound they have right now, I'd like to add some more options.

Oh and...how is the tutorial going?

Thank you Aaron.


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## I like music (Jan 8, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> Happy new year!
> 
> Actually I think I'll go for the 1 (I already know how to do it). I'd like to do it with one control but I imagine that this has to do with the scripts behind the curtains. I had the same "issue" with some audio modeling instruments and by using the second option (or the third one) you loose the release of the instrument by using a breath controller. The solution will be 14bit MIDI but it's a long story.
> 
> ...



Agreed. Even though the tone itself is different to the likes of CSB which I have and love, and I think has space for improvement, something about these instruments means I'm spending more time with them than any other library I have. Can't put my finger on it. But I really like *something* about them. I guess it's the flexibility and the fact that I can get the musical intent of a varied phrase across better than with other libraries. Aaron looking forward to whatever else you add to this (tutorials, tips, altered sound, expansions) because there's a shit load more potential here, and I'm just scratching the surface.


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## DANIELE (Jan 8, 2019)

I like music said:


> Agreed. Even though the tone itself is different to the likes of CSB which I have and love, and I think has space for improvement, something about these instruments means I'm spending more time with them than any other library I have. Can't put my finger on it. But I really like *something* about them. I guess it's the flexibility and the fact that I can get the musical intent of a varied phrase across better than with other libraries. Aaron looking forward to whatever else you add to this (tutorials, tips, altered sound, expansions) because there's a shit load more potential here, and I'm just scratching the surface.



I'm trying to leave as much as possible the keyswitching method, it is so distracting for me. I love this approach and I hope many others take this as an example. I love to have the full control over my instruments.


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## aaronventure (Jan 20, 2019)

Hey, sorry for missing the posts here, I've been mostly offline in order to get Infinite Brass to version 1.2, which is now live. 

Horns have been completely reworked, and there are major improvements to attacks and unison playing across the board.

I've created a short video where I demonstrate the changes and where you can hear the updated instruments and touch on the new Glide Depth and Character features.


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## DANIELE (Jan 20, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> Hey, sorry for missing the posts here, I've been mostly offline in order to get Infinite Brass to version 1.2, which is now live.
> 
> Horns have been completely reworked, and there are major improvements to attacks and unison playing across the board.
> 
> I've created a short video where I demonstrate the changes and where you can hear the updated instruments and touch on the new Glide Depth and Character features.




Thank you Aaron, can't wait to try this out!!


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## Leandro Gardini (Jan 20, 2019)

Sound like an amazing improment.


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## DMDComposer (Jan 20, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> Horns have been completely reworked, and there are major improvements to attacks and unison playing across the board.



WOW! Aaron I'm extremely impressed by those horns... this update is huge. Fantastic work mate. You're becoming one of the best library dev's just because of how much you care about feedback and consistently updating your product to become the best it can be. Brilliant man.


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## DANIELE (Jan 20, 2019)

The character selection is a must. You are awesome, I'm going to try this update.

So now hurry up and while you keep support for this great library do some strings and woodwinds, I expect to play with them at the end of this month. :D

I'm just kidding....maybe not so much! :D


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## Jay Panikkar (Jan 20, 2019)

Been binge watching and listening to Infinite Brass content. In my opinion, this is a "next gen" sample library. 

However, I'm going to hold off until more volumes of the series are released, mainly because I don't want to pay to become a beta tester for new techniques/technology.


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## I like music (Jan 20, 2019)

Jay Panikkar said:


> Been binge watching and listening to Infinite Brass content. In my opinion, this is a "next gen" sample library.
> 
> However, I'm going to hold off until more volumes of the series are released, mainly because I don't want to pay to become a beta tester for new techniques/technology.



I'll say one thing. He's taking feedback _fast_, and he's iterating quickly too. Already the library sounds much better than when it was released. Excellent library. The only questions I had initially were around tone a little bit, but then I was comparing it to libraries recorded in halls where their tone just _is._ But already Aaron is improving this considerably. And the rest of the concept, the musical intent behind what you're writing, is far easier to get with this library than with a few others I've tried. I've promised a few times already, to upload some mock-ups, so that people can have more examples with which to make up their minds. But work got in the way so the last few months have been meagre as far as completing the mock-ups. 

As soon as I do upload, I will tag you if you'd like.


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## DANIELE (Jan 21, 2019)

I played a bit with the library and I must say that there are improvements in the sound, now it seems warmer and richer, I've to analyze better the differences between the four characters.

How could I manage to change the character for all the instruments all together without having to change it for every single one of them?
The menu is not cc-able so I have to change it manually for each instrument every time I want to change my brass character.
Anyway great improvement, so good!!


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## Jay Panikkar (Jan 21, 2019)

I like music said:


> I'll say one thing. He's taking feedback _fast_, and he's iterating quickly too. Already the library sounds much better than when it was released. Excellent library. The only questions I had initially were around tone a little bit, but then I was comparing it to libraries recorded in halls where their tone just _is._ But already Aaron is improving this considerably. And the rest of the concept, the musical intent behind what you're writing, is far easier to get with this library than with a few others I've tried. I've promised a few times already, to upload some mock-ups, so that people can have more examples with which to make up their minds. But work got in the way so the last few months have been meagre as far as completing the mock-ups.
> 
> As soon as I do upload, I will tag you if you'd like.


I didn't hear anything particularly "off" with the first version that couldn't be fixed with some EQ, but the v1.2 instruments apparently sound better out of the box. Kudos to @aaronventure for acknowledging and acting upon feedback.

And yes please, I would love to hear some mockup tracks.


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## DANIELE (Jan 23, 2019)

After a few tries I realized that I cannot use Snapshot function in Kontakt to reload my settings on the new version, it change something under the hood and I don't use the 1.2 version. With Tenor Trombones by loading previous settings I get an out of tune result with the instrument.

So as an advice don't use snapshot with every update, you have to setup your instruments manually.


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## I like music (Jan 23, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> After a few tries I realized that I cannot use Snapshot function in Kontakt to reload my settings on the new version, it change something under the hood and I don't use the 1.2 version. With Tenor Trombones by loading previous settings I get an out of tune result with the instrument.
> 
> So as an advice don't use snapshot with every update, you have to setup your instruments manually.



So basically, if I take the 1.2 folder, copy-paste its contents into the 1.1 folder, then point Kontakt to that folder, then load the instruments from Kontakt afresh, I'll have 1.2 right?


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## I like music (Jan 23, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> After a few tries I realized that I cannot use Snapshot function in Kontakt to reload my settings on the new version, it change something under the hood and I don't use the 1.2 version. With Tenor Trombones by loading previous settings I get an out of tune result with the instrument.
> 
> So as an advice don't use snapshot with every update, you have to setup your instruments manually.



How are you finding the update so far? I won't get to play with it for a long while, so keen to hear user impressions.


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## DANIELE (Jan 23, 2019)

I like music said:


> So basically, if I take the 1.2 folder, copy-paste its contents into the 1.1 folder, then point Kontakt to that folder, then load the instruments from Kontakt afresh, I'll have 1.2 right?



Right. The only way is to load the instrument again.



I like music said:


> How are you finding the update so far? I won't get to play with it for a long while, so keen to hear user impressions.



I'm playing a bit with horns and they sounds great together, I'm trying a combination of 12 horns and it is massive, they sound better than the first version. I'm going with "normal" character. I like the sound overall and the sharper attack. I tried with very fast staccato passages and they sounds great. I've to try the library in some mockup but right now I don't want any other brass library out there and I want now a string library like this.

I'll try to compare it with other libraries maybe.


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## I like music (Jan 23, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> Right. The only way is to load the instrument again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very cool. Have you tried any choral passages e.g. soft chords with individual horns etc? Can't believe I have it downloaded but won't get to play them for a few more weeks ... Aaron needs to slow the updates down (no no, joking, keep em coming)

EDIT: BTW I never checked out the "Chorus" effect on the horns. What does that button do?


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## DANIELE (Jan 23, 2019)

I like music said:


> Very cool. Have you tried any choral passages e.g. soft chords with individual horns etc? Can't believe I have it downloaded but won't get to play them for a few more weeks ... Aaron needs to slow the updates down (no no, joking, keep em coming)
> 
> EDIT: BTW I never checked out the "Chorus" effect on the horns. What does that button do?



I tried it yes and I love it!!

I didn't try the chorus but I think it is for "extend" the sound of one horn like there are more players. They explain it in the tutorial but I don't remember well right now.

I'll give a better feedback when finally I'll make to try them in some track.


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## aaronventure (Jan 23, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> After a few tries I realized that I cannot use Snapshot function in Kontakt to reload my settings on the new version, it change something under the hood and I don't use the 1.2 version. With Tenor Trombones by loading previous settings I get an out of tune result with the instrument.
> 
> So as an advice don't use snapshot with every update, you have to setup your instruments manually.


I can't seem to be able to reproduce this, Snapshot works normally for me. Have you tried re-initialization (the big exclamation mark in the top right corner of Kontakt)? That should work.



I like music said:


> So basically, if I take the 1.2 folder, copy-paste its contents into the 1.1 folder, then point Kontakt to that folder, then load the instruments from Kontakt afresh, I'll have 1.2 right?


Don't just load the projects, you have to manually swap in the instruments. Else you won't be at either 1.1 or 1.2, but somewhere closer to 0.5 since having re-adjusted samples (especially horns) used with 1.1 .nkis in absolutely not what is intended 



I like music said:


> BTW I never checked out the "Chorus" effect on the horns. What does that button do?


It turns the chorus effect on, that I think can sometimes work on horns (because of their indirect sound and the fact that IRs are static) for some sound-design purposes, so I included it. If you own any better-quality chorus plugins like SoundToys, go for that instead.


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## DANIELE (Jan 24, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> I can't seem to be able to reproduce this, Snapshot works normally for me. Have you tried re-initialization (the big exclamation mark in the top right corner of Kontakt)? That should work.



I didn't try it, I didn't think about it. But by loading settings of the previous version on the new instrument cause me different issues. One of them is the out of tune for Trombones, another is the character menu that change nothing etc...
Anyway I already replaced all the instruments with 1.2 ones.

I'll try to reset as you suggest for the next update or maybe on one of the instruments to try if it works.


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## aaronventure (Jan 24, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> I'll try to reset as you suggest for the next update or maybe on one of the instruments to try if it works.


It has no downside, it won't reset your settings, it just re-initializes all the patches (to simplify: resets any hanging notes and "stuck" values).


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## gfcgfc (Feb 20, 2019)

Hi Aaron,
I bought the library last sunday and to date I'm very happy with playability and the tone is ok with some minor eq tweaking (very good job on horns in 1.2 btw).

I have a request... not sure about feasibility, but is it possibile to have an option to exclude smart legato but not attack dynamics ? In this way you can play polyphonically and in the mean time have the benefit to control attack dynamics through velocity (very natural control way on shorts).

Thanks
GF

P.S. Your engine seems to be ready for woodwinds.....


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## aaronventure (Feb 20, 2019)

gfcgfc said:


> Hi Aaron,
> I bought the library last sunday and to date I'm very happy with playability and the tone is ok with some minor eq tweaking (very good job on horns in 1.2 btw).


Yeah, I'm very happy with how 1.2 rounded out and re-balanced everything, and I can safely say that EQing now is entirely subjective (much like I use an EQ on almost every single other library). I would still say that dropping tape on top of the bus is mandatory to add that small amount of noise to the overall output, which won't really be there (like in normal recordings) since the output is the result of convolution. 



gfcgfc said:


> I have a request... not sure about feasibility, but is it possibile to have an option to exclude smart legato but not attack dynamics ? In this way you can play polyphonically and in the mean time have the benefit to control attack dynamics through velocity (very natural control way on shorts).


I thought about that. The thing is that when you play a soft attack, you're not getting a pre-recorded soft attack or a filter sweeping to fake it out. Rather, the script is moving through the dynamic layers, and taking into account moment-to-moment CC1 changes as well as vibrato (if it's playing) until it arrives at your current CC1 value over the period you dialed in with the "Cresc. Time" knob. So if you were playing polyphonically, introducing new notes at lower/higher velocities would duck/accent your entire output. 

"Legato Bypass" is named that way for clarity - the intent that I stand behind is "sketch mode", so you can preview chords without having to manually play them in first. If you're sketching, sketch it out that way, then play in each line into a different solo instrument. Because if you do play chords on a single one, all of these voices get the exact same breath fluctuation, near-exact same pitch fluctuation and the exact same dynamic curve (including attack dynamics), so you're already almost 3 full factors away from "natural". 



gfcgfc said:


> P.S. Your engine seems to be ready for woodwinds.....


Some minor adjustments were made, but mostly yes. The woods are ~60% done. And the instrument list is pretty massive.


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## DANIELE (Feb 20, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> Some minor adjustments were made, but mostly yes. The woods are ~60% done. And the instrument list is pretty massive.



OMG, can't wait!! Please tell me that you are working on a string library too, I hardly need a solo/ensemble library like this.


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## I like music (Feb 20, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> Yeah, I'm very happy with how 1.2 rounded out and re-balanced everything, and I can safely say that EQing now is entirely subjective (much like I use an EQ on almost every single other library). I would still say that dropping tape on top of the bus is mandatory to add that small amount of noise to the overall output, which won't really be there (like in normal recordings) since the output is the result of convolution.
> 
> 
> I thought about that. The thing is that when you play a soft attack, you're not getting a pre-recorded soft attack or a filter sweeping to fake it out. Rather, the script is moving through the dynamic layers, and taking into account moment-to-moment CC1 changes as well as vibrato (if it's playing) until it arrives at your current CC1 value over the period you dialed in with the "Cresc. Time" knob. So if you were playing polyphonically, introducing new notes at lower/higher velocities would duck/accent your entire output.
> ...



Shit! How long will it take to go from 60% to 100%?! Sooner you let us know, the sooner I can plan to save/buy other things, because I'm very very curious about the woods.


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## aaronventure (Feb 20, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> OMG, can't wait!! Please tell me that you are working on a string library too, I hardly need a solo/ensemble library like this.


Not yet, but I'll start working after Infinite Woodwinds are done. There's some ground to break there (autodivisi, scalable sections), but the core concepts will stay the same: playability, positioning, space choice, low-resource.



I like music said:


> Shit! How long will it take to go from 60% to 100%?! Sooner you let us know, the sooner I can plan to save/buy other things, because I'm very very curious about the woods.


I'll be bold and say early April. It's 3 Flutes, 1 piccolo, 1 alto, 1 bass, 3 oboes, 1 bass oboe, 1 cor anglais, 3 clarinets, 1 bass clarinet, 1 contrabass clarinet, 3 bassoons, 1 contrabassoon, 2 soprano saxes, 2 alto saxes, 2 tenor saxes, 2 baritone saxes. So 60% is still some ways off from being done 

It won't cost more than Infinite Brass, that's 100% sure.


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## DANIELE (Feb 20, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> Not yet, but I'll start working after Infinite Woodwinds are done. There's some ground to break there (autodivisi, scalable sections), but the core concepts will stay the same: playability, positioning, space choice, low-resource.
> 
> 
> I'll be bold and say early April. It's 3 Flutes, 1 piccolo, 1 alto, 1 bass, 3 oboes, 1 bass oboe, 1 cor anglais, 3 clarinets, 1 bass clarinet, 1 contrabass clarinet, 3 bassoons, 1 contrabassoon, 2 soprano saxes, 2 alto saxes, 2 tenor saxes, 2 baritone saxes. So 60% is still some ways off from being done
> ...




Great, I truly need strings. It is expected some sort of price reduction for them who bought Infinite Brass?

About the strings auto-divisi is a great thing but I'd think about dynamic ensemble, like the concept from Chris Hein libraries. You could have some type of controller that change the number of instruments in your patch, so you could choose from 1 to maybe 12, or 18 or similar.
So maybe with two or three track per section (to have independent lines) one could build all the string section.
For strings you have to take in mind bow direction, pressure (going from flautando to sforzando) and so on.
You have to take care also of the plucking and maybe bartok pizzicato etc...

I'm dreaming about a library like this literally every day!! :D

EDIT
Also, do you think about some kind of expansions for IB (for example Cimbasso and some other special instrument)?


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## aaronventure (Feb 20, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> It is expected some sort of price reduction for them who bought Infinite Brass?


Yeah, there'll be a lower price for Woodwinds as well. 



DANIELE said:


> About the strings auto-divisi is a great thing but I'd think about dynamic ensemble, like the concept from Chris Hein libraries. You could have some type of controller that change the number of instruments in your patch, so you could choose from 1 to maybe 12, or 18 or similar.
> So maybe with two or three track per section (to have independent lines) one could build all the string section.
> For strings you have to take in mind bow direction, pressure (going from flautando to sforzando) and so on.
> You have to take care also of the plucking and maybe bartok pizzicato etc...



I do have the concepts down but I haven't started actual work on it, as I've said. But I plan for it to be pretty much what you described, with a pretty small RAM footprint. 



DANIELE said:


> Also, do you think about some kind of expansions for IB (for example Cimbasso and some other special instrument)


Yes, I plan to eventually record and release additional instruments, like an Euphonium or two, a Bass Trumpet, a Piccolo Trumpet, and a couple of Wagner Tubas, and possibly Cimbassos as well. 

These will be released as a free update to all Infinite Brass owners and will become a part of the standard Infinite Brass lineup (no price increase or anything).

That should be somewhere around May/June.


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## DANIELE (Feb 20, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> Yeah, there'll be a lower price for Woodwinds as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well...I'm speechless, can't wait to try your new libraries and give some feedbacks to you.


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## DANIELE (Feb 24, 2019)

Is there someone that could imitate this two passages and tell me how he did it and with what instruments of this awesome library?

Here the brass that play at 00:08...



...and here the brass that play at 00:45


Thank you.


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## aaronventure (Feb 24, 2019)

Here's a quick take on the line from "On The Inside". I used an EQ on the trombones to get closer to the reference. There's also tape on top of it all, and some mild, high-attack compression. You'll find MIDI in the attachment.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/on-the-inside-infinite-brass-low-brass-marcato-mp3.18632/][/AUDIOPLUS]






Trombone mix (Horn mix is the default one)


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## DANIELE (Feb 24, 2019)

Wow, thank you Aaron, sounds great!! I fear a little the EQ, a very elaborate one. The library sounds great on its own but it is incredible what you could do with it.

About TAPE (is it the waves one?), I never used it, what kind of settings do you use?

Did you use only three trombones? Could you share (even with an image) the automation under this?

And finally, do you think to add some more on the fly EQ preset on your instruments? Like this maybe, this library is very flexible.


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## aaronventure (Feb 24, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> About TAPE (is it the waves one?), I never used it, what kind of settings do you use?


I used Slate Digital VTM here. It's quite subtle, but it does add a small amount of noise that's present in recordings but isn't with Infinite Brass. 



DANIELE said:


> Did you use only three trombones? Could you share (even with an image) the automation under this?


4 Horns, 2 Tenor Bones, 2 Bass Bones, and a Tuba. If I were orchestrating this, I'd put at least one horn there. Since the passage is really low, the Trombones are easily overpowering the horns down there so I played in 4 . It's a guess. 

You can find the ZIP of all the MIDI files in the attachment of my post. It's the 8 KB one. Default CC mappings, but I only used CC1 and CC21 anyway. 



DANIELE said:


> And finally, do you think to add some more on the fly EQ preset on your instruments? Like this maybe, this library is very flexible.


I'll try out this one on all the instruments and if it's alright, I'll add it.


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## DANIELE (Feb 24, 2019)

Great Aaron, I'll look at it and let you know. Since I'm composing a track where I'm trying different techniques and your instruments if you don't mind I'll post other feedback like this here.

Thank you.


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## aaronventure (Feb 24, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> Great Aaron, I'll look at it and let you know. Since I'm composing a track where I'm trying different techniques and your instruments if you don't mind I'll post other feedback like this here.
> 
> Thank you.


This isn't my thread, as far as I know this is the feedback thread so you can post whatever you want!


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## DANIELE (Feb 25, 2019)

Ok, may I ask to play the staccatos immediately after this theme in the same piece ("On The Inside" from 00:54)?

I'm trying to achieve a dark staccato cluster similar to this.

Or maybe something like this (from 1:29 till 02:12 where different underlying rhythm are heard):



I'm trying to get the same effect without being metallic or too fake. It is not so easy because it is a sort of blown and I need to understand well how to get it through automations and the right instruments.

I don't want to use some ensemble patch, I'd like to get it by using "true" single instruments.

Thank you so much.


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## aaronventure (Feb 26, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> Ok, may I ask to play the staccatos immediately after this theme in the same piece ("On The Inside" from 00:54)?


That's just three trumpets doing a Gm chord in close voicing. The Maze Runner track also sounds like trombones in closed voicing.

For these shorts, you'll find yourself in a lot of work if you want to dial them in manually unless your DAW can humanize MIDI events, because the three main factors in Infinite Brass are Dynamics, Note Velocity and Note Duration. So you're best off slowing the tempo down, playing them in to get all the different note durations and velocities. If you can play these in at normal tempo, more power to you 

As I've said, I prefer having the Cresc. Time knob almost all the way down (~5%) for trumpets since for me it makes it easier to play these fanfarish shorts.

No EQ, slightly lowered Amb mic and a small amount of LXPHall added on top.
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/trumpet-gm-mp3.18657/][/AUDIOPLUS]

MIDI in the attachment as well, but that's pretty straightforward.


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## DANIELE (Feb 26, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> That's just three trumpets doing a Gm chord in close voicing. The Maze Runner track also sounds like trombones in closed voicing.
> 
> For these shorts, you'll find yourself in a lot of work if you want to dial them in manually unless your DAW can humanize MIDI events, because the three main factors in Infinite Brass are Dynamics, Note Velocity and Note Duration. So you're best off slowing the tempo down, playing them in to get all the different note durations and velocities. If you can play these in at normal tempo, more power to you
> 
> ...



Thank you Aaron. I feel this question a lot because I tried with many libraries to build some realistic staccatos but everytime I can't achieve enough power: with "classic" sample libraries I have to deal with short articulations and almost everytime I fall in RR or "too long articulation" issues that make this parts sounds fake. With modeled libraries like SM one in can't get a more organic sound even if I feel I could. Strong is this feeling (that I could) with your library. 

So I'm already trying to play with Cresc. Time knob to manage the attack with velocity, what is bothering me is how to deal with automations, because even if the note is pretty short I have to simulate the blowing on it to get this nasty strong sound.

When I'll be back at home I'll listen to your example here and I'll try to get it with low brass. So do you think that I can achieve this sound only with trombones in low register in closed voicings (that makes sense because of the muddy sound with c.v. in low registers).
I'm still concerned with automations though! I don't think I can play this short at normal speed, and I think I could loose the result by slowing down everything (since I have to slow down it a lot :D).

Anyway, I hardly need a tutorial for the articulation performance with your library (but I understand it requires a lot of time to be built).


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## aaronventure (Feb 26, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> because even if the note is pretty short I have to simulate the blowing on it to get this nasty strong sound


That's the thing with Cresc. Time, it determines how fast will the soft attack reach your current Dynamics (CC1) value. If you shorten it to the minimum, you can play lower velocity notes and it will "blow" into your current CC1 really fast. You can also have a lower CC1, and then hit hard velocities, which will create an accent curve (check the manual). I designed these functions so that they can help, among other things, make performing short repetitions really easy.

Check the MIDI and you'll see that I don't actually do almost any CC1, except at the end when the shorts go a dynamic marking louder. It's all just velocity and note duration differences, while the script is handling everything for you in the back end.


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## DANIELE (Feb 26, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> That's the thing with Cresc. Time, it determines how fast will the soft attack reach your current Dynamics (CC1) value. If you shorten it to the minimum, you can play lower velocity notes and it will "blow" into your current CC1 really fast. You can also have a lower CC1, and then hit hard velocities, which will create an accent curve (check the manual). I designed these functions so that they can help, among other things, make performing short repetitions really easy.
> 
> Check the MIDI and you'll see that I don't actually do almost any CC1, except at the end when the shorts go a dynamic marking louder. It's all just velocity and note duration differences, while the script is handling everything for you in the back end.



Ok, I'll check it out and let you know.


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## DANIELE (Mar 10, 2019)

Ok, now I'm trying to replicate this, it is a very fast passage. Could you help me to achieve it.

Listen to the first five seconds: 


I followed your advices by playing with the cresc. Range knob but I'd like to know if there are some more things to do for this.

Thank you.


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## aaronventure (Mar 22, 2019)

I missed this! 

I played it in (at half speed, though :D). Short Cresc. Time on trumpets and trombones, default (~30%) on horns.

It's just note duration and note velocity at play, no CC1 isn't really doing much here. Clarinets and bassoons are from the upcoming Infinite Woodwinds, but I don't think you can hear the doubling all that clear 

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/scherzo-for-x-wing-bars-1-3-mp3.19074/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## leon chevalier (Mar 22, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> I missed this!
> 
> I played it in (at half speed, though :D). Short Cresc. Time on trumpets and trombones, default (~30%) on horns.
> 
> ...


Sound great !


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## DANIELE (Mar 22, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> I missed this!
> 
> I played it in (at half speed, though :D). Short Cresc. Time on trumpets and trombones, default (~30%) on horns.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much Aaron, your library is awesome. Can't wait for the expansion, the woodwinds and after it the strings.


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## DANIELE (Mar 23, 2019)

Hi Aaron, another question came to my mind, this time more about "space".

Could you please share some thoughts on instrument positioning? When you will finish you orchestra you could give some tips on how to set the three microphones for each instrument to place them in a virtual space.

I'm asking this because to give more bite you should go up with the close mic but this could sound unrealistic in an orchestral enviroment.
If you could give some tips on your instruments, how to blend them together I would be very grateful. Especially when your woodwinds will came out and after it when the strings will came out.

Thank you so much.


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## I like music (May 31, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> Hi Aaron, another question came to my mind, this time more about "space".
> 
> Could you please share some thoughts on instrument positioning? When you will finish you orchestra you could give some tips on how to set the three microphones for each instrument to place them in a virtual space.
> 
> ...



@DANIELE Aye. Once the woodwinds are out, very keen to see how they 'blend' with the brass, and how the balances are set e.g. would I just be able to load up all the instruments, use the same mics, and get a roughly in-place sound that I can go ahead and compose with?

@aaronventure


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## aaronventure (May 31, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> Could you please share some thoughts on instrument positioning? When you will finish you orchestra you could give some tips on how to set the three microphones for each instrument to place them in a virtual space.
> 
> I'm asking this because to give more bite you should go up with the close mic but this could sound unrealistic in an orchestral enviroment.


Yeah, in that regard it's like all close mics in other libraries. If you want a more intimate setting, I would suggest trying out the Studio, and then adding your own reverb tail on top. 

I like the idea of fully captured rooms so you can position your orchestra as you please, but both capturing that and implementing (in a way that the experience doesn't suffer) would be much, much more work. It's something I've been thinking about and definitely something I'll consider if at some point down the line, when all the instruments are released, I decide to add new spaces.

Woodwinds are much more flexible in this regard, as they all share the positions instead of sections each having their own set. For all instruments, you can choose any of the 3 rows and 18 positions in each row. The first two are kind of standard woodwind positions, and the 3rd row is a bit further in the back. So you can cram in 54 woodwind players into one room and position them exactly as you wish. 



I like music said:


> would I just be able to load up all the instruments, use the same mics, and get a *roughly* in-place sound that I can go ahead and compose with?


Yes, pretty much how it's intended and how it worked for me when creating the demos. 1dB up/down depending on the taste/sound you're looking for/context. I don't remember _not_ adjusting levels ever when working with other libraries, so I guess this will always be a subjective topic, even if it's just a couple dB of difference.


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## I like music (May 31, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> Yeah, in that regard it's like all close mics in other libraries. If you want a more intimate setting, I would suggest trying out the Studio, and then adding your own reverb tail on top.
> 
> I like the idea of fully captured rooms so you can position your orchestra as you please, but both capturing that and implementing (in a way that the experience doesn't suffer) would be much, much more work. It's something I've been thinking about and definitely something I'll consider if at some point down the line, when all the instruments are released, I decide to add new spaces.
> 
> ...



Amazing. So this leaves only one more thing to ask, especially given that today is pay-day. Are you going to release the woodwinds around pay-day?


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## DANIELE (May 31, 2019)

I like music said:


> Amazing. So this leaves only one more thing to ask, especially given that today is pay-day. *Are you going to release the woodwinds around pay-day?*


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## I like music (May 31, 2019)

DANIELE said:


>



I'm sitting here with my wallet out, just waiting.


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## I like music (Jun 3, 2019)

I like music said:


> I'm sitting here with my wallet out, just waiting.



Damn. Wallet started whispering to me now.


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## chocobitz825 (Jun 3, 2019)

I like music said:


> Damn. Wallet started whispering to me now.



Your wallet whispers? Mine has been shouting in my ear and my credit card is shrieking in horror of the impending doom.


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## DANIELE (Jun 3, 2019)

Mine is used to cry!

Here we use to say "It's raining in the wet!".


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## aaronventure (Jun 3, 2019)

Hah, you guys'll have to wait a few more days. There's gonna be a ridiculously good deal for all Infinite Brass owners (even though the library has more instruments than Infinite Brass) so I don't think your wallet will be hit all that much. The deal doesn't have a time limit, so worst case scenario is you wait for the next payday


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## chocobitz825 (Jun 3, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> Hah, you guys'll have to wait a few more days. There's gonna be a ridiculously good deal for all Infinite Brass owners (even though the library has more instruments than Infinite Brass) so I don't think your wallet will be hit all that much. The deal doesn't have a time limit, so worst case scenario is you wait for the next payday



now my heart wants to cry...

you're the real MVP


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## DANIELE (Jun 3, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> Hah, you guys'll have to wait a few more days. There's gonna be a ridiculously good deal for all Infinite Brass owners (even though the library has more instruments than Infinite Brass) so I don't think your wallet will be hit all that much. The deal doesn't have a time limit, so worst case scenario is you wait for the next payday



Good to know that the deal will not espire because in a few days I will be far from home for a week or so...


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## DANIELE (Jun 5, 2019)

Ok guys, 2 days have passed so now whe have to wait a few more days minus two. 

Sorry, I'm just kidding.


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## I like music (Jun 5, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> Ok guys, 2 days have passed so now whe have to wait a few more days minus two.
> 
> Sorry, I'm just kidding.



You waiting for something? I can't think of what it might be.


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## chocobitz825 (Jun 5, 2019)

I like music said:


> You waiting for something? I can't think of what it might be.



sweet salvation.


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## Saxer (Jun 15, 2019)

Any news on woods?


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## aaronventure (Jun 15, 2019)

Saxer said:


> Any news on woods?


There's still 6 days of spring left, and the website still says Spring 2019, so..


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## chocobitz825 (Jun 15, 2019)

gimme gimme gimme


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## I like music (Jun 15, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> There's still 6 days of spring left, and the website still says Spring 2019, so..



Look at this lawyer over here. I spent my money on anxiety medication waiting for the woods...


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## Saxer (Jun 15, 2019)

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdo...T17&p0=137&msg=Lost+in+the+woods&font=cursive


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## I like music (Jun 16, 2019)

5 days till 'strings' summer.


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## DANIELE (Jun 16, 2019)

I like music said:


> 5 days till 'strings' summer.



Ehi Saxer could you make a countdown for the strings too? Till September 21th.


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## I like music (Jun 16, 2019)

Basically 4 days now. Additionally, consider the fact that you want to be able to say - for accounting purposes - that you launched _and_ sold a new product line _in_ Spring. It probably means that a few of us will need a day or two to get our shit together, so that we can pay for it and buy it.

That effectively means you should release them tomorrow. Just to be safe.


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## I like music (Jun 17, 2019)

3


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## I like music (Jun 18, 2019)

2


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## MatFluor (Jun 18, 2019)

I rather wait a couple of extra days and have a well tested and good product, then rush it out because "crap...end of spring...SHIP IT".


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## I like music (Jun 18, 2019)

MatFluor said:


> I rather wait a couple of extra days and have a well tested and good product, then rush it out because "crap...end of spring...SHIP IT".


2


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## chocobitz825 (Jun 18, 2019)

MatFluor said:


> I rather wait a couple of extra days and have a well tested and good product, then rush it out because "crap...end of spring...SHIP IT".



I’d rather we had any news at all.

Lol waiting is agony


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## S R Krishnan (Jun 21, 2019)

The day is here


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## DANIELE (Jun 21, 2019)

S R Krishnan said:


> The day is here



Yeah, summer is here...strings time...


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## DANIELE (Jun 25, 2019)

Version 1.3 is out with many improvements and the first expansion set.

I'm curious about infinite note duration, it could be useful in some hybrid/unrealistic context.

Ehi Aaron, I'm thinking about a thing to add to this great library. In some kind of tracks it could be useful to have a some sort of brass synthy sound. It could be some kind of expansion like synth brass.

For example Hans Zimmer (but other do the same, me too really) in some pieces layer some sculpted sawtooth to brass to give a more powerful and fluid sound (some working on filters, reverb and glide and the game is on). It is not a classical orchestral context obviously but I think it could be a great addition to Infinite Brass.
It would fit great with this library, based on the concept of it and on sculpting possibilities it has.

I'm curious about the new Dark profile, I'll try it this evening, what is about?

Let me know what are you thinking of this suggestion.

Thank you


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## aaronventure (Jun 25, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> Ehi Aaron, I'm thinking about a thing to add to this great library. In some kind of tracks it could be useful to have a some sort of brass synthy sound. It could be some kind of expansion like synth brass.
> 
> For example Hans Zimmer (but other do the same, me too really) in some pieces layer some sculpted sawtooth to brass to give a more powerful and fluid sound (some working on filters, reverb and glide and the game is on). It is not a classical orchestral context obviously but I think it could be a great addition to Infinite Brass.
> It would fit great with this library, based on the concept of it and on sculpting possibilities it has.


Ah, we're talking about completely different instruments here 

There's plenty of products that do this already. No need to overload.



DANIELE said:


> Dark profile


Character profiles are basically EQ presets. This one has recessed treble and slightly recessed high-mids.


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## DANIELE (Jun 25, 2019)

aaronventure said:


> Ah, we're talking about completely different instruments here
> 
> There's plenty of products that do this already. No need to overload.



Yeah I know, personally I use a sythesizer instead of pre-cooked libraries, I like to have total freedom, I'm just asking myself if you could do something dedicated by looking at your experience.
Like maybe some deeper working on the sound with filters and EQ to achieve an organic sound with a synthy dress (I don't know if you understand what I mean). 



> Character profiles are basically EQ presets. This one has recessed treble and slightly recessed high-mids.



Yeah yeah I knew it, since right now I can't listen to it I was just curious about the color of this new profile and maybe the context in which to use it.


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## axb312 (Jun 25, 2019)

Would anyone mind post a clip of the horns as an ensemble going through the dynamic layers?


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## aaronventure (Jun 25, 2019)

axb312 said:


> Would anyone mind post a clip of the horns as an ensemble going through the dynamic layers?


Time 2:20.


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## vicontrolu (Jun 29, 2019)

How many staccato RR samples are recorded x instrument? Or dos this library chandler repetition in a different way


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## aaronventure (Jun 29, 2019)

vicontrolu said:


> How many staccato RR samples are recorded x instrument? Or dos this library chandler repetition in a different way



No staccato overlays here. Every instrument is always a single voice.Every instrument is always a single voice.

Everything is done in real time via the script, and the many parameters that have a play in note attacks are different every time you press a note. Technically, 16 384 (128 x 128) possible combinations.


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## axb312 (Jun 29, 2019)

Would love to hear some user demos...


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## ProfoundSilence (Jun 29, 2019)

axb312 said:


> Would love to hear some user demos...



crowdfund a copy for me and I'll be happy to take a crack it XD


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## I like music (Jun 29, 2019)

axb312 said:


> Would love to hear some user demos...



Of the brass or the winds in particular?


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## axb312 (Jun 30, 2019)

I like music said:


> Of the brass or the winds in particular?



Either or both..... More so the winds at the moment actually.


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## I like music (Jun 30, 2019)

axb312 said:


> Either or both..... More so the winds at the moment actually.



Due to my hectic days coming up I may not be able to send something immediately but I shall try! Anything specific you'd want?


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## axb312 (Jun 30, 2019)

I like music said:


> Due to my hectic days coming up I may not be able to send something immediately but I shall try! Anything specific you'd want?



Anything you feel like doing would be appreciated.


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## YanJ (Aug 10, 2019)

I really want to buy this product, but there are not many user demo videos.


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## Chris Richter (Aug 11, 2019)

YanJ said:


> I really want to buy this product, but there are not many user demo videos.


Then buy it and make one :D
What is holding you back? What do you need to know before you want to buy? Everybody who bought it and is active here seems to enjoy it.


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## Luvide (Sep 6, 2019)

How does it compare to CSB? Is the sound as good? I love the features this library seems to offer, just not 100% convinced yet. I'll probably wait for Cory's upcoming video, his Spotlights always show the libraries' possibilities really well...


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## EugenioBruno (Dec 20, 2019)

Currently hunting for a copy of kontakt 5 so I can buy this...

can't wait to try to make a brandt trumpet concerto mockup with it


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## Montisquirrel (Dec 20, 2019)

EugenioBruno said:


> Currently hunting for a copy of kontakt 5 so I can buy this...
> 
> can't wait to try to make a brandt trumpet concerto mockup with it



There are some hints that there is an update and a sale around the corner...


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## EugenioBruno (Dec 20, 2019)

... I've heard. And that's all I'm going to say. :D


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## I like music (Dec 20, 2019)

Montisquirrel said:


> There are some hints that there is an update and a sale around the corner...



Infinite Bump. Very much looking forward to what Aaron has coming next!


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 20, 2019)

EugenioBruno said:


> Currently hunting for a copy of kontakt 5 so I can buy this...
> 
> can't wait to try to make a brandt trumpet concerto mockup with it


@EugenioBruno Are you still looking for Kontakt 5?

I do believe I have a license for it since I am now on Kontakt 6 

Let me know...

UPDATE: My apologies as I mistook this for my Reaktor 5 license


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## Resoded (Feb 28, 2020)

A couple of quick questions to owners, if I want to play a horn section with 4 horns, am I expected to play the horn line a little bit differently 4 times to get the best sound, or can I just use the exact same midi for the whole horn section without issues? How do you guys use this?

And also, do you find programming this time consuming or is it pretty fast to write with it once you get the hang of it?


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## DANIELE (Feb 28, 2020)

Resoded said:


> A couple of quick questions to owners, if I want to play a horn section with 4 horns, am I expected to play the horn line a little bit differently 4 times to get the best sound, or can I just use the exact same midi for the whole horn section without issues? How do you guys use this?
> 
> And also, do you find programming this time consuming or is it pretty fast to write with it once you get the hang of it?



You could also use the same midi file, they are 4 different horns. With the next update you could do this even more.

With the actual version you could copy the same midi file and the slightly randomize the note durations, dynamics etc...and you could also sligthly detune each instrument and add a little different delay to everyone of them to emulate the real orchestra behavior.

But they works well already out of the box. Try to play them all together in unisono and you will see.


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## I like music (Feb 28, 2020)

Resoded said:


> A couple of quick questions to owners, if I want to play a horn section with 4 horns, am I expected to play the horn line a little bit differently 4 times to get the best sound, or can I just use the exact same midi for the whole horn section without issues? How do you guys use this?
> 
> And also, do you find programming this time consuming or is it pretty fast to write with it once you get the hang of it?



You can copy paste and get a pretty decent sound out of it. But I do randomise a little bit (and tend to give each player slightly different ccs ... at one weird point in my life, I named each horn player and some of them tended to be a bit more hot-headed than the others etc etc). I do believe it can make a difference, but you can get away with the same data, since a good degree of randomisation is already built in.

This said, like Daniele has mentioned, I believe Aaron had something more in mind with the next update, so I'm very keen to understand what that might look like!


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## mrazz (Aug 14, 2020)

I like music said:


> You can copy paste and get a pretty decent sound out of it. But I do randomise a little bit (and tend to give each player slightly different ccs ... at one weird point in my life, I named each horn player and some of them tended to be a bit more hot-headed than the others etc etc). I do believe it can make a difference, but you can get away with the same data, since a good degree of randomisation is already built in.
> 
> This said, like Daniele has mentioned, I believe Aaron had something more in mind with the next update, so I'm very keen to understand what that might look like!


Is it possible to completely bypass the room IR to get a totally dry sound so that I can design the hall sound for the plugin. No demo videos show this as a possibility!


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## I like music (Aug 14, 2020)

mrazz said:


> Is it possible to completely bypass the room IR to get a totally dry sound so that I can design the hall sound for the plugin. No demo videos show this as a possibility!


Check out Corey's tutorial on how to do this. So yes there is, but I forgot exactly where it is!


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