# Cubase 10 Version Question, Specifically for Orchestral Composing



## PaulieDC (May 13, 2019)

I recently switched from Studio One to Cubase 10 Pro on my main DAW PC tower. Enter the blasted eLicenser (really Steinberg? It's 2019). I also have a laptop I use to get down ideas at work or when occasionally traveling (using a Korg MicroKey 37), maybe 20-40 tracks, mostly ensemble patches with added things. A scratch/idea pad. I'm _not _pulling that eLicenser out of my PC every time I want to run Cubase on my laptop... too easy to lose, it's staying on the tower. I'd rather have a separate key or a Cubase version that doesn't need a key.

Hence my question: I just ordered a Steinberg inexpensive audio interface (UR12) to have a decent soundcard on the laptop, and it's bundled with *Cubase 10 AI*. I can upgrade to Elements, Artist or Pro and they do have that sale going. What's the minimum Cubase 10 version y'all would use for maybe 30-40 tracks max? Does Elements do MIDI to that level, or should I get Artist? Cubase is totally new to me so I don't even know exactly what to look for in the spec comparison. It'd be nice to not have to shell out for Pro if I don't NEED it. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Henu (May 13, 2019)

If you are going to use Cubase a lot on the road, with this price you should definitely get Pro or at least Artist. You'll thank yourself later. But stay away from Elements, because it's definitely an entry-level product and lacks a ton of stuff we've used to have with Pro.

I also bought Elements originally for laptop use, but decided to let the dongle to sit tightly at my son's computer after a couple of recording sessions when I realized it lacks _everything_, including playlists. That being said, Elements is good for my son's needs now: a 13- year old who started to make music of his own (mostly....ungh, hip hop) last autumn. It can utilize VST's, has enough tracks for hobbyist purposes and is easy to use. But I'm already dreading for the day when the "_dad, can I use your Pro licence instead as Elements lacks this and that feature_" happens. :D


----------



## PaulieDC (May 13, 2019)

Henu said:


> If you are going to use Cubase a lot on the road, with this price you should definitely get Pro or at least Artist. You'll thank yourself later. But stay away from Elements, because it's definitely an entry-level product and lacks a ton of stuff we've used to have with Pro.
> 
> I also bought Elements originally for laptop use, but decided to let the dongle to sit tightly at my son's computer after a couple of recording sessions when I realized it lacks _everything_, including playlists. That being said, Elements is good for my son's needs now: a 13- year old who started to make music of his own (mostly....ungh, hip hop) last autumn. It can utilize VST's, has enough tracks for hobbyist purposes and is easy to use. But I'm already dreading for the day when the "_dad, can I use your Pro licence instead as Elements lacks this and that feature_" happens. :D


Exactly what I had hoped, someone who's been there... thanks!!


----------



## I like music (May 14, 2019)

Actually, great question. Do Steinberg ever provide two dongles so that one doesn't have to keep swapping between two machines? With my track record of USB sticks, and 2 young kinds, it is only a matter of time before the laptop-USB gets pulled out and fed to the dog.


----------



## Vonk (May 14, 2019)

I like music said:


> Actually, great question. Do Steinberg ever provide two dongles so that one doesn't have to keep swapping between two machines? With my track record of USB sticks, and 2 young kinds, it is only a matter of time before the laptop-USB gets pulled out and fed to the dog.



No.


----------



## I like music (May 14, 2019)

Vonk said:


> No.



Fair enough. I actually don't know what happens if I lose/damage my dongle. Do I have to pay full-price or can I send it back off to them for a free replacement? I might be confusing their policy with VSL's...


----------



## Guy Rowland (May 14, 2019)

Henu said:


> If you are going to use Cubase a lot on the road, with this price you should definitely get Pro or at least Artist. You'll thank yourself later. But stay away from Elements, because it's definitely an entry-level product and lacks a ton of stuff we've used to have with Pro.
> 
> I also bought Elements originally for laptop use, but decided to let the dongle to sit tightly at my son's computer after a couple of recording sessions when I realized it lacks _everything_, including playlists. That being said, Elements is good for my son's needs now: a 13- year old who started to make music of his own (mostly....ungh, hip hop) last autumn. It can utilize VST's, has enough tracks for hobbyist purposes and is easy to use. But I'm already dreading for the day when the "_dad, can I use your Pro licence instead as Elements lacks this and that feature_" happens. :D



Actually just to complicate the issue for you Paulie, I've found the exact opposite experience from Henu above. I've had Elements on my laptop for several years now, alongside a full install that I can use with a dongle. I think I've used the full version twice... maybe just once, can't quite remember. IMO Elements is absolutely perfect for sketching and quick working. I've never come close to hitting the limit on anything, and indeed sometimes feel I'd be more productive if I only EVER used my slimmed-down template!

Speaking of templates, I long ago abandoned the notion of trying to recreate my template on a laptop, with the many terabytes of storage and huge RAM requirements needed (these things could now be changing with the arrival of VE Pro disabled templates and 4TB SSDs, mind - but I'd need a dongle for VE Pro anyway!). So without needing to work in that way, my requirements from a DAW on the road also become much simpler.

Setting aside that I could run a proper full template on it, the two main things I miss on Elements are side-chaining and VariAudio. Neither of these are of much concern for orchestral work.

The main day to day things I use Elements for are stupidly trivial, checking a function on a synth etc when the studio is shut down etc. Having to use a dongle for these chores is a non-starter. So I'd strongly recommend a dual install of Elements and Pro, and if you know you are going to be away and will have the need to do some really serious work you can bring the dongle then.


----------



## Henu (May 14, 2019)

Guy Rowland said:


> IMO Elements is absolutely perfect for sketching



Hey, actually- on _that_ I agree. I'd sketch any day with Elements. Anything finalized and/or to be sent to a client is another thing, though. Plus the recording-thingie I mentioned earlier.


----------



## Guy Rowland (May 14, 2019)

Henu - my understanding is indeed Paulie needs this primarily as a sketching tool. And of course quality-wise there's no difference at all, its purely feature-set. Gulp, I never use playlists, so I haven't even noticed their absence on Elements.

Incidentally and on a different matter, one other thing I forgot to mention - while you have only 64 midi tracks, there's another 24 instrument tracks (and all of these can use multiple audio outs without adding to your audio track count). Ignoring all the audio and unused template tracks, I doubt I've ever done a cue in my life that has used more than 88 midi tracks.

And incidentally #2 - the one pretty pointless version of Cubase imo is Artist. Elements is the perfect sketching tool and doesn't need a dongle; Pro is the full fat version; Artist is just a PITA, neither one thing nor the other. Definitely don't go for that one, Paulie!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (May 14, 2019)

Just buy the Pro version, it's a really good deal. You could also buy an additional dongle as a spare.


----------



## Guy Rowland (May 14, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Just buy the Pro version, it's a really good deal. You could also buy an additional dongle as a spare.



The point for me is not the expense but the dongle itself. For everyday mobile stuff I don't want it sticking out the laptop / getting in the way / getting lost / taking up a port / me forgetting it / me losing it. It's a major PITA. No problem for desktops or very occasional and specific mobile use. Routine daily stuff - nah.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (May 14, 2019)

Guy Rowland said:


> The point for me is not the expense but the dongle itself. For everyday mobile stuff I don't want it sticking out the laptop / getting in the way / getting lost / taking up a port / me forgetting it / me losing it. It's a major PITA. No problem for desktops or very occasional and specific mobile use. Routine daily stuff - nah.



Good points! Prior to Cubase 10, I'm pretty sure Steinberg offered a soft license (no dongle) method, although I never tried it. Not sure why that stopped. 

Hey Guy, totally digging your walkthrough videos! The are both entertaining and informative, you convinced me to buy a couple of Project SAM libraries!


----------



## Guy Rowland (May 14, 2019)

Ha, irony cross-thread alert for me on your last comment, but thanks Wolfie.

I don't think Steinberg have ever allowed soft-elicenses on Artist or Pro. However, they have publicly said that they are working on a new copy protection system that - IIRC will be dongle-free, so here's hoping.


----------



## PaulieDC (May 14, 2019)

Wow, great thread, you could never get all these perspectives from a chat with Sales, lol! I just sold my gamer laptop (to someone in this thread, lol) but I have another someone gave me, and so I really just need a simple mobile rig. I have Cubasis on my iPad pro but I have a lot of catching up to do in learning Cubase 10 so I want all hands-on with that to supplant what I know about Studio one, and Elements will still give me that. I can always upgrade to Pro later on Black Friday, etc, if needed, but my real studio is home on my insane 64lb tower PC. Definitely not mobile, lol.


----------



## PaulieDC (May 14, 2019)

Guy Rowland said:


> The point for me is not the expense but the dongle itself. For everyday mobile stuff I don't want it sticking out the laptop / getting in the way / getting lost / taking up a port / me forgetting it / me losing it. It's a major PITA. No problem for desktops or very occasional and specific mobile use. Routine daily stuff - nah.


Bingo.


----------



## Guy Rowland (May 14, 2019)

I must admit, I've barely touched Cubasis. It's very clever for an iPad app and it has improved a great deal, but still I found it about 1,000x more frustrating than Elements on a laptop. I think you'll find Elements a big sigh of relief next to it.


----------



## I like music (May 14, 2019)

Guy Rowland said:


> Ha, irony cross-thread alert for me on your last comment, but thanks Wolfie.
> 
> I don't think Steinberg have ever allowed soft-elicenses on Artist or Pro. However, they have publicly said that they are working on a new copy protection system that - IIRC will be dongle-free, so here's hoping.



This would be the dream. A laptop I plan on using in bed before going to bed/also using cubase on another machine the next day (I'll have to remove it twice per day!). Did they give anymore details?


----------



## Guy Rowland (May 14, 2019)

I like music said:


> This would be the dream. A laptop I plan on using in bed before going to bed/also using cubase on another machine the next day (I'll have to remove it twice per day!). Did they give anymore details?



Here is what Daniel at Steinberg wrote in September:

_We are working on a replacement for the current eLicenser system, but it's a medium- to long-term project rather than something that is going to bear fruit imminently, I'm afraid. eLicenser has been such a critical part of our business for so many years that replacing it is an enormous task, but the team is working diligently towards it._

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=144546


----------



## I like music (May 14, 2019)

Guy Rowland said:


> Here is what Daniel at Steinberg wrote in September:
> 
> _We are working on a replacement for the current eLicenser system, but it's a medium- to long-term project rather than something that is going to bear fruit imminently, I'm afraid. eLicenser has been such a critical part of our business for so many years that replacing it is an enormous task, but the team is working diligently towards it._
> 
> https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=144546



Thank you for finding that for me. Much appreciated, and looking forward to seeing what they come up with!


----------



## Michael Antrum (May 14, 2019)

Just be aware that you only get expression maps in Pro. If you don’t need them, then great, but I use them on my main machine and much of the work I do gets moved across when I get back home....


----------



## whiskers (May 14, 2019)

Michael Antrum said:


> Just be aware that you only get expression maps in Pro. If you don’t need them, then great, but I use them on my main machine and much of the work I do gets moved across when I get back home....


Yep that's the kicker. Personally I'd say go pro or go home, but I suppose that depends on need


----------



## I like music (May 14, 2019)

That Reverence reverb isn't bad either!


----------



## MisteR (May 14, 2019)

I have an AI license lying around here somewhere. Wonder if it’s worth bumping up to elements for the laptop for $37. AI has about 64 tracks. Only 4 inserts to elements’ 8. AI might be fine...


----------



## MisteR (May 15, 2019)

Apart from the bells and whistles I wouldn't use, looks like the main thing $37 gives me is the ability to disable tracks (and a few more inserts). Not sure I'd be working with so many tracks on the go that I'd need that. But tempting... (Note: I'm using Pro on the full rig, just considering Guy's suggestion.) 

If you have any hardware from Cubase, by the way, you also have one of these licenses somewhere.


----------



## PaulieDC (May 20, 2019)

Michael Antrum said:


> Just be aware that you only get expression maps in Pro. If you don’t need them, then great, but I use them on my main machine and much of the work I do gets moved across when I get back home....


I went for it. $225 for the full deal, plus it's a write-off on my media business anyway. Not even sure why I asked the question, I go pro or go home on everything else, lol. My new laptop that I didn't even plan on getting until an employee-price deal came along has an 8th-Gen 6-core/12-thread CPU and all NVMe drives, so the rig can handle it. Done and happy.


----------



## PaulieDC (May 20, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Just buy the Pro version, it's a really good deal. You could also buy an additional dongle as a spare.


I had to get another dongle since it's a separate license. I wanted to avoid the porcupine laptop but that wasn't realistic because I've also got an interface, mouse receiver, Korg MicroKey and I may put my mobile libraries on a new NVMe external that runs on USB 3, so I ended up getting a hub to swing around behind the computer with the low power stuff. The Key will stay dedicated to my laptop bag and my tower Key remains untouched. It is what it is. Maybe the Keys will be gone in the future. At least from Cubase, VSL will never budge I don't think!


----------

