# Intel 12th gen or 5950x



## Meo96 (Nov 27, 2021)

Hi there, 

I'm currently upgrading my 2017 PC and it seems now is not an easy time to choose between CPU. 

I heard so many good things about the 5950x and currently I could buy it for less than 700 euros. But the 12th gen Intel release made me doubt. My CPU technical knowledge is near zero but from what I read single-core performance on the i9 seems slightly better than the Ryzen. Multi-core seem less or equal, and overall the i9 consumes way more. 

- Pros for Intel that I imagine : better or easiest general compatibility (just some opinions I read here and there...), optimization with Windows 11, future ready : PCIe gen5 ready, DDR5 ready (I already ordered DDR4 new ram but still, I will only have to upgrade mobo and not mobo+CPU if I go with Intel).
- Big con for Intel : motherboards choices, high prices
- Enormous pro for 5950x (to me) : other than great great performances, this seems like a bestseller with a lot of positive opinions. The i9 is so recent.
- Cons for AMD : less recent, Windows 11 optimization ? (I want to take the risk of building my new system around Windows 11, mainly for the new GUI)

My current CPU is from 2014 : I7 5930k, it has served me well but it seems out of date. Saying that, I was also looking to the i5 12600k which seems to have excellent price to quality ratio and I guess it will be a great upgrade coming from this 2014 CPU.


Here are the parts I already bought, or already have

- 128gb 3200mhz C16 RAM (DDR4) - upgrade from 48gb DDR4 RAM 2400mhz C10
- Samsung 980 pro 2tb - upgrade from 960 pro
- PSU Corsair 750wat - upgrade from old and cheap 550w

- Radeon Pro WX 4100 (my current GPU)

If possible I want to buy a 300/400 euros max motherboard with at least 3 M2 Nvme and around 5 or 6 SSDs (so I guess AMD choice wins here)

I spent hours reading forums and reddit and I just can't make my mind. Although lately I think more and more of buying the 5950x. A lot of people seems to know a lot about CPU and PC build on this forum so I hope your views can help me and also help other people that might have this question. 

Best,


----------



## walkaschaos (Nov 27, 2021)

I'm not an expert but I'd personally stick with Windows 10, how important is the fancy GUI on a music-making machine really? Microsoft will still be supporting it for the next 5 years and it is stable and working great as far as compatibility is concerned (generally speaking). As far as the chip I'm also not the type to go with brand new / bleeding edge stuff, I'd rather go with something tested and established even if it is slightly less powerful than the newest new thing. Just my 2 cents tho!


----------



## easyrider (Nov 27, 2021)

5950x without doubt….


----------



## Meo96 (Nov 27, 2021)

walkaschaos said:


> I'm not an expert but I'd personally stick with Windows 10, how important is the fancy GUI on a music-making machine really? Microsoft will still be supporting it for the next 5 years and it is stable and working great as far as compatibility is concerned (generally speaking). As far as the chip I'm also not the type to go with brand new / bleeding edge stuff, I'd rather go with something tested and established even if it is slightly less powerful than the newest new thing. Just my 2 cents tho!


Thanks for your opinion, your 2 cents are very valuable! 

Regarding W11 : not important at all I agree, it's purely psychological. I'm sick of W10 GUI (I would die for a mac like experience) and since I'm spending hours in front of my computer a nicer GUI is appreciated (I often used my computer outside of the DAW)


----------



## Ben (Nov 27, 2021)

Meo96 said:


> single-core performance on the i9 seems slightly better than the Ryzen. Multi-core seem less or equal, and overall the i9 consumes way more.


The new Intel processors have a new design (bigLITTLE): There are p-cores (performance) that can do the heavy lifting, as well as e-cores (efficience) that do the idle or light-weight work.
While in general this is not a bad thing as most of the times the cores are not in use anyways, I don't know if anyone has already tested it in a DAW machine.
Therefore, I would recommend to wait for test results in case you want to get this CPU, if you don't want to experiment yourself. (and don't get the 11th gen CPUs from Intel, they are just waste of sand)



Meo96 said:


> Pros for Intel that I imagine : better or easiest general compatibility (just some opinions I read here and there...),


No longer an issue. Since the rise of Ryzen CPUs OS and software got improvements to the point where there is no performance / stability penalty on one of the plattforms (I have a 5950X and have no issues at all). The Win11 bug that caused Ryzen CPUs to be slower is already fixed as well.



Meo96 said:


> PCIe gen5 ready


No one needs PCIe 5, and probably will not need it for the next few years as well. PCIe 4 has also almost no benefits as well in real world applications (there are exceptions in certain areas, but not in music production, office use, or gaming).



Meo96 said:


> DDR5 ready


DDR5 is currently worse in performance compared to DDR4 if you pay the same amount for the kits (early adopters fee). It will take a few years until DDR5 can play out its strengths at an offordable price.



Meo96 said:


> Cons for AMD : less recent, Windows 11 optimization ? (I want to take the risk of building my new system around Windows 11, mainly for the new GUI)


The Ryzen 5950X is still quite a new CPU, but we'll probably see a refresh of it soon. Still, as far as I know it has overall the best perfromance in consumer CPUs market. Even compared to the new Intel i9 CPU it can hold up in some benchmarks (and is not far off in others).


If your goal is to be cutting edge and pay the "early adopters tax", the new Intel CPUs don't look bad (except for that I don't know how the new architecture performs in DAW workloads).
But if you want the best cost/performance choice I recommend the 5950X.


----------



## Pictus (Nov 27, 2021)

Meo96 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> If possible I want to buy a 300/400 euros max motherboard with at least 3 M2 Nvme and around 5 or 6 SSDs (so I guess AMD choice wins here)


Hi, for AMD


https://pcpartpicker.com/product/XWBG3C/gigabyte-x570s-aorus-master-atx-am4-motherboard-x570s-aorus-master





For Intel with DDR4 (not much options available right now)


https://pcpartpicker.com/product/gsPQzy/gigabyte-z690-aorus-elite-ddr4-atx-lga1700-motherboard-z690-aorus-elite-ddr4


or


https://pcpartpicker.com/product/pLjBD3/gigabyte-z690-aero-g-ddr4-atx-lga1700-motherboard-z690-aero-g-ddr4






Meo96 said:


> I spent hours reading forums and reddit and I just can't make my mind. Although lately I think more and more of buying the 5950x. A lot of people seems to know a lot about CPU and PC build on this forum so I hope your views can help me and also help other people that might have this question.
> 
> Best,


I'm more AMD, but people who have both mentioned that Intel is faster...

*UPDATE:
Gigabyte Z690 DDR4 BIOS are crap right now, they do not work well with the RAM sticks.*


----------



## d.healey (Nov 27, 2021)

Ben said:


> "early adopters tax"


12900k is cheaper than 5950x in some places, and if you go for a DDR4 motherboard their are boards of similar prices for both platforms (of course there are a lot more options available for AM4 and hence some very cheap boards, but you probably wouldn't get a cheap board for a 5950x CPU).


----------



## Ben (Nov 27, 2021)

Well, I can't say how prices are on the other side of the lake, but at the moment a 12900k costs here ~650€, a 5950x ~730€ (24 vs 32 threads, and AMD has only performance cores).
I got a 180€ board (MSI MAG x570 Tomahawk) a year ago (currently 220€), and imo it's good enough, and unless you want something specific like 3 NVMe slots I don't see why you should pay more.

So if you don't go for DDR5 and find a decent board you don't pay a early adopters tax, that's right.


----------



## ogrim1 (Nov 28, 2021)

Why not 5900x instead if it's available? It looks like a better value than 5950x in my country.


----------



## vitocorleone123 (Nov 28, 2021)

If possible, I'd hold off a bit longer to see how the top new Intel performs with music-related software, and then get the best one if it's in budget. Of course, there'll always be a new chip on the horizon, but this is a newer architecture that's a bit unproven, as opposed to a new chip of an existing type.


----------



## Pier (Nov 28, 2021)

I've been using a Ryzen 3700X for 2 years now on my DAW machine and I've had zero compatibility problems on Windows 10.

I agree with @vitocorleone123 that if you can, you should wait. The new AMD CPUs will be released next year and apparently will be worth the wait.


----------



## strojo (Nov 28, 2021)

There’s never a good reason to wait just for the chance to get something better, because there will ALWAYS be something better tomorrow than what you buy today.

There are plenty of great options available today. If you need a new system now, do your research and make the best choice you can.


----------



## Pier (Nov 28, 2021)

strojo said:


> There’s never a good reason to wait just for the chance to get something better, because there will ALWAYS be something better tomorrow than what you buy today.
> 
> There are plenty of great options available today. If you need a new system now, do your research and make the best choice you can.


In general I agree with this, but 2022 will be significant.

AMD will start releasing 5nm process chips with double the efficiency and more performance. Some say comparable to Apple's M1.

Apple will release their ARM based desktops. This might make some people switch from Windows to Macs.

Not sure what's going on with Intel but AFAIK they will finally start pumping out the Alder Lake CPUs.

Competition in this space has never been stronger and this is great for us consumers.


----------



## jamieboo (Nov 29, 2021)

I'm very curious about all this too, but with slightly different CPU candidates.
I'm considering either the 5900x or the i7 12700K (or KF - I don't need onboard graphics).
The intel seems a bit cheaper with comparable performance generally, but less efficient and of course there's still question marks about the new architecture in the sphere of music production.
Which of these two CPUs would people incline towards and why?
Keep the thoughts and opinions coming folks!


----------



## Meo96 (Nov 29, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> If possible, I'd hold off a bit longer to see how the top new Intel performs with music-related software, and then get the best one if it's in budget. Of course, there'll always be a new chip on the horizon, but this is a newer architecture that's a bit unproven, as opposed to a new chip of an existing type.


Good advise. If nothing interesting about the i9 comes out before the end of the year though, I think I will go with the Ryzen.



Pier said:


> I agree with @vitocorleone123 that if you can, you should wait. The new AMD CPUs will be released next year and apparently will be worth the wait.


I agree with you, next year releases seem big but I want to build this now... And as strojo says :


strojo said:


> There’s never a good reason to wait just for the chance to get something better, because there will ALWAYS be something better tomorrow than what you buy today.


Totally. 

Thanks @Ben for all those infos and your experience with the 5950x. 
Thank you @Pictus for those mobo choices, very helpful (I saw some of your other messages on other threads too, that helped me catch infos!)

Here's what my build looks for now (with all the parts I have) 



https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Meo96/saved/CfKCdC


----------



## ogrim1 (Nov 29, 2021)

jamieboo said:


> I'm very curious about all this too, but with slightly different CPU candidates.
> I'm considering either the 5900x or the i7 12700K (or KF - I don't need onboard graphics).
> The intel seems a bit cheaper with comparable performance generally, but less efficient and of course there's still question marks about the new architecture in the sphere of music production.
> Which of these two CPUs would people incline towards and why?
> Keep the thoughts and opinions coming folks!


wait for 12700/12700f








Intel 12th Gen Core "Alder Lake-S" non-K retail CPUs have been pictured, specs leaked - VideoCardz.com


Retail Intel 12th Gen Core non-K Series pictured, listed by retailer The final versions of the upcoming ‘locked’ non-K CPUs have been pictured (almost) in their entirety. Over at Zhihu, DDAA117 has the first photos of the non-K Alder Lake-S CPUs. This is actually the same leaker that revealed...




videocardz.com




and more mobo options


----------



## dentaku (Nov 29, 2021)

I'm in the same place as you. I'd love to build a 12700K system but it's so new there's no information online yet as to how good it is for audio applications.


----------



## jamieboo (Nov 29, 2021)

Either way, I'll be holding off until early next year to see what the Ryzen 9 3D V-Cache chips bring to the table. But in the meantime I'm wanting to find out as much as I can.


----------



## Pictus (Nov 29, 2021)

Meo96 said:


> Thanks @Ben for all those infos and your experience with the 5950x.
> Thank you @Pictus for those mobo choices, very helpful (I saw some of your other messages on other threads too, that helped me catch infos!)
> 
> Here's what my build looks for now (with all the parts I have)
> ...


I am glad to help, but can not read your pcpartpicker as it is marked as Private.
Click in Edit Part List>Save As and disable Private


----------



## Meo96 (Nov 30, 2021)

Pictus said:


> I am glad to help, but can not read your pcpartpicker as it is marked as Private.
> Click in Edit Part List>Save As and disable Private


Oops, indeed. It's public now


----------



## Pictus (Nov 30, 2021)

Add an extra 140mm fan to the case front


https://pcpartpicker.com/product/byjJ7P/arctic-p14-728-cfm-140-mm-fan-acfan00124a



Does the GPU is silent?
Small fan is very noisy...
What I do with my GPUs is to use 120mm fans, wayyyy more silent.



To control all the fans in the system





FanControl, my take on a SpeedFan replacement


______________________________ Version updated date: 11/04/2022 Current update version: 136 https://getfancontrol.com To run at startup: Use the new "Start with Windows" option in the left hamburger menu ______________________________ Tutorials: ______________________________ TLDR _______________...




linustechtips.com




The good part is that it can make the case fans to react to *both *CPU and GPU temperature!


----------



## pixel (Nov 30, 2021)

I'm not sure if jumping to Win11 right now is a good idea. This OS is still WIP. While it may be fine for casual computer usage or an office job, I wouldn't recommend it for a serious DAW.
So, CPU optimisation for Win11 doesn't mean much because OS itself needs a lot of optimisation in the first place. Besides that, it's not like W11 is a totally new OS that would require some kind of special optimisations from modern CPUs t work properly. After all, it's W10 at its core. Installing W11 today you agree to be an unofficial beta tester. There's a reason why even Microsoft is not pushing W10 users to upgrade to W11 yet 

DDR5: for how long do you expect to keep this build? If it's for about 5 years, then I wouldn't expect drastic changes in audio software that would greatly benefit (or change workflow completely) within that period. But if you want to keep your build for >5 years, let's say 10, then having an option to change to DDR5 without changing CPU and MB may not be a bad idea.

My vote is for AMD. I moved from Intel to AMD (3900x) last year, and to this day, I'm impressed by how efficient AMD CPUs are. Just keep in mind that sometimes AMD likes to have issues with RAM, and it may require a bit of tweaking in BIOS to get the best performance out of your RAM. I had plenty of issues, but it was probably because of not the best BIOS version - update fixed it for good.

Ps. I agree about W10 UI. It's horrid! Unfortunately, 3rd party 'UI changers' often cause more issues and UI glitches.


----------



## thevisi0nary (Nov 30, 2021)

Small-medium workstation I'm easily going for 12600k. Get's within 15% MT of 5900x at almost half the price, why would I look at anything else. Large workstation 5950x I think makes most sense, it's efficient and proven. These are the only two cpus I'd look at if I was building a new machine with the 12700k being distant 3rd place.


----------



## ashX (Nov 30, 2021)

Both are great CPUs and 12600K is a great CPU and would be most likely an overkill unless you have HUGE HUGE projects. I would just get the one that is either cheaper or available.


----------



## NukillerMedia (Nov 30, 2021)

scan audio answers your question in detail. It’s not that simple as looking at geekbench values.


----------



## thevisi0nary (Nov 30, 2021)

NukillerMedia said:


> scan audio answers your question in detail. It’s not that simple as looking at geekbench values.


To be honest I’m not a huge fan of these tests either. It’s straight multi core stacking which is not what the average project looks like. No bussing or master fx, no testing of asio stability when recording live audio in a session that is already large. There are also weird things, like how there’s no tangible reason given for why the 10900x outperforms the 10900k in the VI portion, when it has the same number of cores on the same 14nm and typically clocks much lower.

Not saying I don’t appreciate the work I just don’t think it thoroughly reflects real world usage.


----------



## Dunshield (Dec 1, 2021)

Happy AMD 3950X user here. Great performance with Cubase 10.5 on Win10.
Am looking to upgrade to the 5950x, or the newer tba Ryzen 6000 series model with the 3D V-cache; waiting on the reviews and benchmarks for audio and especially VI use. (EDIT not sure if that 6000 series will be copmatible with AM4 .. there could be a 5950X 'refresh' too.)

When comparing the AMD to the intel model at the time ('Q1 2020), I remember liking the architecture more of the Intel and the Intel mobo's looked better organized and more pro. Also more RAM was possible with intel. Not sure what the situation is today.


----------



## Tim_Wells (Dec 1, 2021)

Deleted. Dumb post.


----------



## pianistje (Dec 1, 2021)

Yesterday i installed a new processor. I had a seven year old I7 that was reaching it’s limits more than once. Got the AMD Ryzen 7 5800X cheap during BF and also upgraded the motherboard , better cooler and DDR3 RAM to DDR4 RAM . I use(d) a top range RMI internal soundcard that i totally dig, so a relative straight forward upgrade. For a modest price i have a vastly superior system now. First test was the Embertone 1954 Walker multi mode programs where all mic positions are crammed into a multi mode program. Could not play that on my old system but now, no problem. Also VSL piano’s, no need to use a limited amount of mics. Wow…. i am simply very happy to get so much more power in such a relative cheap way.


----------



## dentaku (Dec 1, 2021)

Hopefully people start building systems with the new 12th GEN Intel processors so we can compare them to modern AMD systems.
I know people like their AMD based computers and I might end up doing the same especially if the 12700K turns out to need ridiculous/loud cooling but I just feel more comfortable with Intel stuff and the motherboards available for them.


----------



## Pictus (Dec 2, 2021)

*UPDATE:
Gigabyte Z690 DDR4 BIOS are crap right now, they do not work well with the RAM sticks.
Until they fix the BIOS, better stay away from Gigabyte Z690 DDR4 models.
*


----------



## d.healey (Dec 2, 2021)

dentaku said:


> Hopefully people start building systems with the new 12th GEN Intel processors so we can compare them to modern AMD systems.
> I know people like their AMD based computers and I might end up doing the same especially if the 12700K turns out to need ridiculous/loud cooling but I just feel more comfortable with Intel stuff and the motherboards available for them.


I have a 12600K and motherboard arriving today (BF deal), unfortunately my case, psu, and heatsink won't arrive until the end of the month. So I'll have to wait until the new year to compare against my 5900x.


----------



## dentaku (Dec 2, 2021)

Great, hopefully it all performs well.


----------



## novaburst (Dec 4, 2021)

Meo96 said:


> My current CPU is from 2014 : I7 5930k, it has served me well but it seems out of date. Saying that, I was also looking to the i5 12600k which seems to have excellent price to quality ratio and I guess it will be a great upgrade coming from this 2014 CPU.


i think the intel prices are also good but there is a big question mark with the MB prices and weather the benefits will be worth the big expense also DDR5.

i have seen AMD X series and Alderlake go head to head while in gaming intel has now regain the lead but production was not to convincing so even the DDR5 had a big question mark.

one thing is seeing the benefits another is real life usage will you see your programs wiz in and out and load faster that the speed of light,.............maybe ...........but maybe not


----------



## dentaku (Jan 13, 2022)

d.healey said:


> I have a 12600K and motherboard arriving today (BF deal), unfortunately my case, psu, and heatsink won't arrive until the end of the month. So I'll have to wait until the new year to compare against my 5900x.


Have you built this new system yet?


----------



## d.healey (Jan 13, 2022)

dentaku said:


> Have you built this new system yet?


Good timing, the case and heatsink arrived this morning, so no, but I will soon


----------



## KEM (Jan 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> In general I agree with this, but 2022 will be significant.
> 
> AMD will start releasing 5nm process chips with double the efficiency and more performance. Some say comparable to Apple's M1.
> 
> ...



I’m definitely getting a Mac Mini, and if it’s financially feasible I might even get the next Mac Pro


----------



## 3CPU (Jan 13, 2022)

d.healey said:


> Good timing, the case and heatsink arrived this morning, so no, but I will soon


I wish you the very best with your new build.

My experience October, 2020 -- Trying to get the parts I really wanted for my build was like being in a weird episode of the twilight zone. I paid more for the PSU due to supply issues, and the GPU now cost twice as much. Very easy build with Fractal Design Define 7 ATX, Asus Hero, 10600K paired with the NH-U12A. This build is awesome, good core clock speed, runs great, idles at 30, peak load at 61 (Blender 4K render)! Powers along with Eevee on CPU, but I use the GPU for Cycles. I don't use this for DAW use, this desktop will be given to my wife for photo and video editing. And by May 2022, I will decide to jump on the Apple cart or yet again do another build for my main studio desktop.


----------



## Pier (Jan 13, 2022)

KEM said:


> I’m definitely getting a Mac Mini, and if it’s financially feasible I might even get the next Mac Pro


I'm waiting a year or two to see what happens in the desktop space.

I'd love to get a Mac Mini Pro to replace my current iMac so that it becomes my work + DAW machine.

I'm happy with my Windows 10 Ryzen PC for DAW use, but since I also use it for gaming, now I can't just move it to the TV to play!


----------



## KEM (Jan 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> I'm waiting a year or two to see what happens in the desktop space.
> 
> I'd love to get a Mac Mini Pro to replace my current iMac so that it becomes my work + DAW machine.
> 
> I'm happy with my Windows 10 Ryzen PC for DAW use, but since I also use it for gaming, now I can't just move it to the TV to play!



My PC is doing well, just needs more ram, but the 6700k still holds up surprisingly well for my huge VEP template


----------



## 3CPU (Jan 14, 2022)

@ OP, 

None of the listed SKU's is what I would consider for AMD or Intel build. The 12700K paired with MSI Z690 Pro or similar from Asus, or go with the Ryzen 5900X paired with Asus B550 Pro Art Creator. either platform is more than adequate for my intended use. These are mighty good processors, plenty powerful but won't require a hefty shoe-box size CPU cooler. It is the transitional period and current prices that concern me....

DDR4 is being phased out yet DDR5 remains very expensive, and a decent dedicated GPU at this point in time is also very expensive. Transitional phase and price hikes, not the best of times for building a new PC. I usually upgrade every few years, I won't be purchasing DDR4. AM5 will also support DDR5 and thus the phasing out of DDR4, it won't be supported.

Meanwhile, Apple M1 10-core silicon is fine, and I have almost completed going through a list of plugins to consider that are fully supported. My plans and budget remain on target for May. I hope Apple releases new desktop processors by then. Perhaps a spec'd up new Mac Mini Pro release, best bang for the buck.


----------



## thevisi0nary (Jan 14, 2022)

3CPU said:


> @ OP,
> 
> None of the listed SKU's is what I would consider for AMD or Intel build. The 12700K paired with MSI Z690 Pro or similar from Asus, or go with the Ryzen 5900X paired with Asus B550 Pro Art Creator. either platform is more than adequate for my intended use. These are mighty good processors, plenty powerful but won't require a hefty shoe-box size CPU cooler. It is the transitional period and current prices that concern me....
> 
> ...


Why go with a 5900x when the 12600k is only 25% slower MT and 15%+ faster ST at 40% of the price?


----------



## PaulieDC (Jan 14, 2022)

Only skimmed the thread. My next build (most likely this year) is the i9-12900K or KF, because as audio/MIDI bots, we need Single Core and FPU performance. 12900 is 20%-ish better than the 5950 there. The overall score is irrelevant, it's targeted to GAMERS and often incorporates performance with 3 vid cards SLI pr Crossfired together. But if you need to build NOW, then the 12900 may not be ideal because we need Mobo manufacturers to get past v1.0 stage with drivers, etc. If you are hoping for DDR5 to do what it says of course. PCIe 3.0 for audio is all we need, 4 is for vid cards for gamers and video editors unless you have some super specific PCIe based hardware that is cutting edge (not something we see in audio hardware, lol...)

FPU isn't listed here but it's the same percentage higher for the Intel:






If yearly running cost is a factor for you, then kiss Intel goodbye!


----------



## 3CPU (Jan 14, 2022)

thevisi0nary said:


> Why go with a 5900x when the 12600k is only 25% slower MT and 15%+ faster ST at 40% of the price?


Good point! 

The 5900X would be my 'third choice', it requires a GPU (very expensive), but a GPU is required for my additional needs such as 4K 3D renders and 4K video editing. For PC platform the 12700K is my 'second choice', the 12600K is not on my radar for DAW and other uses. 

But now is not the best time for 'me' to build a PC and for reasons I explained earlier. It seems the Apple M1 10-core Max is probably my first choice but I don't want a laptop. And because I do like LP and FCP. 

For budget reasons I planned no earlier than May, I still got time to decide, if rumors are true, there could be a new Mac Mini Pro/Max by March-April 2022, and place my order by May.


----------



## Meo96 (Jan 15, 2022)

Sorry I wasn't able to post I had a lot of work for the end of 2021 and went on a big vacation. So in the end, I bought the 12700k ! ! Funny that this one wasn't even in the poll. 

The 5950x sales ended and it was back around 800 euros, I heard about the possible heat problems with 12900k, I had all the parts except the CPU and mobo so I just decided to buy the 12700k (460 euros) I reminded myself that what I had since 2017 was this 2014 i7 5930k and that Id probably be very happy with this new 12th gen i7.


I installed Windows 11 pro and I'm just very happy with it. UI makes a big difference to me, and everything seems to work perfectly. Every single product and software works perfectly for now.

I'm really happy with this MSI mobo also, which has 4 M2 slots and 6 sata

Here's the complete setup : 



https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Meo96/saved/#view=CfKCdC



(The ram is actually 4 x 32 gb) 

Only thing that bothers me is the noise, the fractal design fans are really noisy as is the CPU cooler, I'm thinking of remplacing all of them with be quiet fans (previous build was a be quiet! Dark base pro and this machine with all the doors open is more quiet than the Noctua...)


----------



## Pictus (Jan 15, 2022)

Meo96 said:


> Only thing that bothers me is the noise, the fractal design fans are really noisy as is the CPU cooler, I'm thinking of remplacing all of them with be quiet fans (previous build was a be quiet! Dark base pro and this machine with all the doors open is more quiet than the Noctua...)






You can buy a pack with *five *Arctic P140 for $38


https://pcpartpicker.com/product/62hKHx/arctic-p14-pst-728-cfm-140-mm-fans-5-pack-acfan00138a


I like to place 3 in the front and one in the back, YMWV.

If the crap/fragile GPU fan is noisy, can substitute for a bigger fan.


If you want better control to the fans, there is nothing better than





FanControl, my take on a SpeedFan replacement


______________________________ Version updated date: 11/04/2022 Current update version: 136 https://getfancontrol.com To run at startup: Use the new "Start with Windows" option in the left hamburger menu ______________________________ Tutorials: ______________________________ TLDR _______________...




linustechtips.com




you can set the case fans to react to *BOTH *GPU and CPU temperatures.

You need a better CPU cooler, a BIG dual tower cooler is the choice, with more
mass/surface you can set the CPU fan to a lower RPM. 
Without any BIOS custom fan curve customization(limit the fan max RPM), the 
Dark Rock Pro 4 is the best option for lower noise.


----------



## Meo96 (Jan 15, 2022)

Nice, thanks! The fan from my AMD GPU is very silent so that's okay. I just bought the Noctua CPU cooler so I'll try to stick with it and concentrate on the case fans, will try a bit of bios tweaking


----------



## dentaku (Jan 17, 2022)

Meo96 said:


> Here's the complete setup :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've never looked into RAM as I'm not into overclocking and benchmarking so I'm wondering how and why you chose the RAM you ended up with.
All I know is I want 32 or 64GB of DDR4 to go with a 12700K and it shouldn't need any special BIOS tweaking to be stable and not be too tall to fit under a big cooler with 140mm fans.
I'm still not sure if I want a Noctua or bequiet.


----------



## KEM (Jan 18, 2022)

Intel CEO: AMD will 'never again' beat Intel CPUs, credits Alder Lake


Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger on AMD: 'AMD is in the rearview mirror, never again will they be in the windshield' - Team Blue dominance.




www.tweaktown.com


----------



## PaulieDC (Jan 18, 2022)

So I started the New PC journey tonight, came across the i9-12900KF for $589 and 0% interest on Amazon prime. It'll take months to complete the purchase/build mostly due to scarce and _high-priced_ DDR5 RAM, and mobo BIOS and drivers that need a few iterations of bug fixes with the new(ish) Z690 /1700 socket boards.

I have pretty much the list of components nailed down other than RAM so I'll chip away as deals come. Who knows, maybe by Christmas I can report back with a finished rig and some stats, and Easy Rider and I can holler back and forth over which processor is better, lol!  I _am _itching to see if the excellent Single-Core and FPU specs are all they are cracked up to be.

This is definitely not a great time to build a PC, but I'm in no rush, current one is more than ample for now.


----------



## 3CPU (Jan 18, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> This is definitely not a great time to build a PC, but I'm in no rush, current one is more than ample for now.


Agreed! And also what you said about DDR5 and other things such as drivers. I remember the last PC I built, it took longer than expected due to prices and availability but definitely worth the wait.


----------



## PaulieDC (Jan 19, 2022)

3CPU said:


> Agreed! And also what you said about DDR5 and other things such as drivers. I remember the last PC I built, it took longer than expected due to prices and availability but definitely worth the wait.


Right! And I need to be patient this time. In May 2018 I built my current rig and I spent over a grand on the 128GB ram (8x16GB). In less than a year it was half that...  Not going to rush it this time. Don't need to, current is a 7th Gen 14-core so it's no slouch, thankfully.


----------



## Meo96 (Jan 20, 2022)

dentaku said:


> I've never looked into RAM as I'm not into overclocking and benchmarking so I'm wondering how and why you chose the RAM you ended up with.
> All I know is I want 32 or 64GB of DDR4 to go with a 12700K and it shouldn't need any special BIOS tweaking to be stable and not be too tall to fit under a big cooler with 140mm fans.
> I'm still not sure if I want a Noctua or bequiet.


I would have bought Corsair Vengeance at the same speed but I looked at the cheapest 128gb 3200 or 3600 I could get during black friday and it was those Kingston (which seems to be a good brand as well...) I have a friend in NY that could pick those up for me so I paid around 600$ for it which is way cheaper than in my country


----------



## HammyHavoc (Apr 6, 2022)

Any further anecdotes to share?

On a 4770K and RME RayDat currently on a project with increasing scope (nice problem to have ), could really do with more cores and more RAM (32GB on this machine).

12900K looks great, sadly a lot of the software I use constantly hasn't been updated for Windows 11, and not having the Intel scheduler assumedly hurts performance if you run the 12900K on Windows 10 (less cores available without the sceduler, right?), versus a 5950X.

Was mulling the 5950X with Windows 10 for the time being as _anything_ has got to be an upgrade, right?

I know folks will tell me to just wait it out, but I need more va-va-voom today, not in 6 months. It being the last AM4 doesn't necessarily bother me either. Only really interested in latency, performance, and it being able to run the software available today. Already own a very nice NVIDIA GPU as I do game audio.

Or is there any good value yesteryear CPU to be had that might make more sense versus a 5950X? 10900K?


----------



## d.healey (Apr 6, 2022)

I finally got around to putting my 12600k system together and running a few tests. I haven't an opportunity to switch over to it as my main system yet as I have some ongoing projects that I need to finish first.

My results will not be very useful to most of you as my main use case isn't creating music. I'm running this in a fanless case, and I'm limiting the max power draw - which of course affects performance for anything that would exceed that power level.

I'm also running Linux 5.16 which doesn't have the efficiency/performance core manager thingy that Windows 11 has, although it will be available when Linux 5.18 is released next month. This means scheduling for now is probably a bit better on Windows 11 than on my OS.

As I found when I built the 5900x system I had to do a lot of BIOS tweaking to get the best performance out of it, I haven't done much tweaking yet with the 12600k so I'm expecting to improve my results when I get around to it. I'm also testing with some spare DDR4 RAM I had from an older system which is about 2133 MHz - so slow. My final build will use faster RAM which I expect to make quite a difference to my compiling tests.

In my preliminary tests with compiling I found that the 12600k performs slightly worse (core for core) than the 5900x, which of course is no surprise. It also runs considerably cooler than the 5900x, uses less power, and of course is silent and dust free. For the small trade off in performance these things make me happy.

Compiling HISE:
5900x @ 12 threads: 0m 51s
12600k @ 12 threads: 1m 17s

I found the extra threads in the 5900x give diminishing returns.
5900x @ 20 threads: 0m 47s
5900x @ 22 threads: 0m 46s

I haven't done much testing with the iGPU of the 12600k, when I switch to it as my main system I'll be doing some 4k video editing and I'll see how it gets on. My 5900x system is using a fanless GTX 1050ti, if the 12600k iGPU can't handle my needs then I'll probably add the 1050ti to the new machine, although I'd rather not. Something else I'll explore later in the year is Intel's upcoming discrete GPUs.


----------



## Pictus (Apr 6, 2022)

HammyHavoc said:


> Any further anecdotes to share?
> 
> On a 4770K and RME RayDat currently on a project with increasing scope (nice problem to have ), could really do with more cores and more RAM (32GB on this machine).
> 
> ...


No.

For gaming the 12900K is better, DDR4 or DDR5.
If you want 128GB the 12900K DDR5 is complicated, I do not know how
is today, the safer option would be the DDR4, but for audio workloads
the DDR4 version looks less interesting than the AMD 5950X.





DAWbench 2021 Suite - Intel 12th Gen Results.


DAWbench Suite - AMD 7000 and 13th Gen Intel results https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.php?p=16229111&postcount=934 The new CPUs are factory overclocked, by tweaking we can reduce the max wattage and use air cooler. Intel Core i9-13900K vs. AMD Ryzen 9 7950X at 125W and 65W...




vi-control.net






For AMD 5950X I would build something +- like this


https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/PdjRTn



-The cooler Noctua NH-D15


-The motherboard with Thunderbolt ports and front USB-C.


-The RAM








Team Group T-Create Expert DDR4-3600 MHz CL18 2x32 GB Review


The Team Group T-Create Expert is a high-capacity memory kit available in a 3600 MHz specification with a low-profile design and 10-layer PCB for extra stability. This sensible design combined with great performance could be the perfect workstation memory kit.




www.techpowerup.com





-The SSD





Seagate FireCuda 530 1TB SSD Review (tested with Windows 11)


It's here. Seagate's FireCuda 530 can reach speeds in excess of 7,300 MB/s and is the first SSD upgrade certified for PS5 use.




www.tweaktown.com





-The case


-The Corsair RMx850W (2021) PSU is semi-passive and +- up to 350W the fan is off








Corsair RMx Series 850 W (2021) Review


The new Corsair RM850x uses topnotch parts, including Japanese caps and a magnetic levitation fan. It is also one of only two PSUs with three EPS connectors! The cherry on top is the high performance, among the best in this category, and the silent operation as long as you keep the load on the...




www.techpowerup.com





For Intel 12900K 128GB DDR4 I would build something +- like this


https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/FsXMv3


The Asus motherboard has dual mount holes, but it is recommended to
use the LGA1700 kit(NM-i17xx-MP83) anyway.



BTW, some tweaks in





Nvidia Driver, no latency anymore?


Hi all! We all know that AMD drivers have from far, less latency than Nvidia drivers, and for that reason we all recommand an AMD graphic card for audio working. But recently i have dealt with a new install on a PC with an Nvidia graphic card. And when i updated to the latest driver i saw an...




vi-control.net


----------



## Pier (Apr 6, 2022)

Pictus said:


> The cooler Noctua NH-D15


It's an amazing cooler.

It comes with two fans but it's so good I can run it with just a single fan on a 3700X. Of course my case provides plenty of fresh air.


----------



## d.healey (May 29, 2022)

I've been using the Alder Lake system now for a week as my main system. I haven't noticed any day to day difference in performance between it and the 5900x. I have noticed a significant decrease in power consumption and heat output - part of that will be because I'm no longer using a discreet GPU which was sucking up to about 30W.

Today the system has been on for a couple of hours, I've done some light programming, image editing, watched some YouTube, browsed the interwebs, etc. The CPU temperature is at 35c, ambient is 23c. This is significant to me because I'm using a fanless case, which means no dust and total silence. The previous system was semi-passive, it had two fans which came on when needed, but that was quite often, and the average CPU temp was 50-60c with a similar ambient.

I haven't had any issues recording/editing 4K videos on the iGPU so I don't think I'll be going back to a discreet GPU any time soon - although I'm interested to give one of the Intel Alchemist cards a try if they ever materialize.


----------



## parapentep70 (May 29, 2022)

Meo96 said:


> ....single-core performance on the i9 seems slightly better than the Ryzen. Multi-core seem less or equal,


Correct... with DDR5. With DDR4 performance drops significantly. That's the conclusion in DAWbench audio tests.


----------



## Vokes (Aug 8, 2022)

The benchmarks I saw are showing that i5 12600k is better than 5950x, in which way is 5950x better than i5 12600k since most of you voted for it..?!


----------



## jblongz (Aug 8, 2022)

The 5900X is the best balance of clock speed, multithreading, price, and power consumption. It beats the thread rippers in single core processing and close enough on Multi-core. I don’t think it’s worth going higher. 

Here’s a great article that helped me decide:








AMD Ryzen 5000 Series Review for Content Creators - Goodbye Competition


AMD's Ryzen 5000 Series CPUs have overtaken the competition for good. Content Creators have to search no further for the fastest CPUs for professional workloads.




www.cgdirector.com


----------



## novaburst (Aug 8, 2022)

Anything with DDR 5 is perhaps the way to go today


----------

