# How do -you- use folders in Logic?



## JFK (Feb 26, 2013)

Just started integrating these into my workflow. 

Upside are neater arrange and mixer scopes.

Down is you can't visually see the rest of the session like in Cubase due to the layers of the arrange view. 

Please share: how do you got about composing with them?


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## dgburns (Feb 26, 2013)

i use folders alot.some things I've noticed that I wanted to share.

I have a folder with all audio tracks set up.I can't seem to bounce in place to these audio tracks from a vi that is not in the folder as well.I keep my vi's at the top level because of this.

I do put all in and out objects in a folder.I created all buss objects and put them in a folder,just so I can have quick access.anything you want to see in the mixer quickly as well,grouped together.

If you create a folder,you can specify a screenset for that folder's tracks,and no matter where you place the folder in the arrange tracks,you will always be able to call it up by that screenset.handy in case you want to move it up or down the arrange order.

you can put midi sequence in a folder to create a touch track,pretty handy way of firing off many midi tracks by pressing one key.like ableton live but only for midi.

mostly I use folders to organize midi tracks by library and instrument type.

curious to see how others use folders.


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## windshore (Feb 26, 2013)

very interesting... I've been using Logic since '96 (yes, in the pre-internet dinosaur age...) & I don't use folders. I tried a few times over the years to integrate but have always felt the benefits vs. downside favored doing without folders. (- or was about even.) 

It would be great if there was a cleaner way to organize tracks like this though.


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 26, 2013)

I used to use them in the latter stages. let's us say I have 5 MIDI tracks for different HS Vln 1 articulations in VE Pro on my PC with non-contiguous regions and 2 for KH Vln 1 in VE Pro on my Mac with non-contiguous regions. At that stage , it is very handy to just pack them into a folder and then for the other strings so I end up with 5 folder tracks (vln 1, vln 2, vla, cello, bass) rather than25-30 MIDI tracks with with a whole bunch or regions.

But nowadays, i send them to a bus and bounce them to audio for final mixing so I am not doing this as much.


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## DocMidi657 (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi Guys,

I want to use folders in logic to organize a long template by instrument type but I thought this would not work since I thought Logic's Folder feature is "Region Based" and Not "Track Based" Am I missing something here? Love to be able to do this!
Dave


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## JFK (Feb 26, 2013)

Good insight here, thanks guys



DocMidi657 @ Tue Feb 26 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I want to use folders in logic to organize a long template by instrument type but I thought this would not work since I thought Logic's Folder feature is "Region Based" and Not "Track Based" Am I missing something here? Love to be able to do this!
> Dave



I had the same misconception too because Logic in it's unending quest to make things clear for it's users has "take folders" and just plain old "folders". 

The drill is as follows: Pencil in a blank region onto any track you want in the folder, select them, then execute a 'Pack Folder' command in the menus or with a shortcut. 

A new folder "region" will be created; if you double-click on this you go 'in' the folder and see the tracks that you just packed. These tracks will still be in the arrange page: an annoying byproduct but you can delete them at this point because they're safely in your folder. Also you'll still have the blank regions on the tracks within the folder; delete these if you want.

If you have a mixer window with Same Level or Content link enabled (AND you have View > Add Signal Flow Channel Strips disabled) you'll have a mixer view to reflect what's inside your folder. For this feature alone it's worth using folders. I'd use the environment more but you can't drag & drop plugins from track-to-track (to my knowledge).

Now you want to add more tracks to your folders? Logic makes this a slow process for some reason, less you ctrl click/reassign a track to you'd like to add from your environment. However, this track won't have any regions on it. 

Want to add a region from the arrange WITH regions on it? Starts to get more complicated. You can drag+drop the region in the folder but there's a bug that doesn't create the necessary track for it and will plop it just about anywhere.

If you copy/cut & paste the regions (preferably @ original position w the key command) you'll see the same behavior. The most sensible thing is to select regions from >=2 tracks and then paste them. NOW Logic acts sensibly presents a dialog that asks you if you want to make new tracks, paste them on additional tracks and a third option I can't remember. This works for extracting tracks back to the arrange page too. 

Apparently, if you have an additional arrange window open, you can freely drag & drop the tracks from window to window.

Editing audio inside folders, as mentioned by an earlier poster, seems to be completely fubared.


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 26, 2013)

[quote="JFK @ Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:02 
Editing audio inside folders, as mentioned by an earlier poster, seems to be completely fubared.[/quote]

How so?


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## Blake Ewing (Feb 26, 2013)

Here is something I am trying with a new strings template.

I am basically using the "folder" as a visual template divider (it serves no function other than for visual reference).

I may decide it's completely non-sensical, but thought I would share.


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## DocMidi657 (Feb 26, 2013)

So Blake to clarify..you are not "packing the folders" so you always have to look at a super long list of tracks when working right?..cause that's what I'm doing and it drives me crazy.
Dave


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## Blake Ewing (Feb 26, 2013)

DocMidi657 @ Tue Feb 26 said:


> So Blake to clarify..you are not "packing the folders" so you always have to look at a super long list of tracks when working right?..cause that's what I'm doing and it drives me crazy.
> Dave



Correct, Dave. But at least this seems to give me some visual guideposts. 

I'm very jealous of Cubase and Studio One (and probably others) users and their folder systems.

-Blake


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## dgburns (Feb 26, 2013)

> Now you want to add more tracks to your folders? Logic makes this a slow process for some reason, less you ctrl click/reassign a track to you'd like to add from your environment. However, this track won't have any regions on it.



Just so you know,you can drag and drop multiple objects from the environment all in one go unto the arrange page.You just need one track populated(defined) to lay the first object over,and Logic will ask if you want to create tracks for the remaining ones.You can populate the arrange very fast with this.Try it and see.

as for creating different folders,just create one folder,duplicate the folder track underneath it,and copy the folder down as well.Now you can drag and drop from the environment as you want for inside this new folder as well.You don't even need to erase the tracks in the arrange there,just overlay the new objects by drag and drop and you have created possibly hundreds of new tracks in short order.


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## DocMidi657 (Feb 26, 2013)

Man I wish Apple would update this. My two big issues with Logic are no track based folders like the other guys and the the fact that it can only use one core for recording.


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## stonzthro (Feb 26, 2013)

A few years back I had the instruments put into folders by section (Winds/Brass/Percussion/Strings/Synths etc...) and then assigned each folder to a screen set - it worked great except you couldn't see the other tracks for a visual.

It seems that since Logic consciously veered away from multi-instruments, they could have foreseen massive track counts...

These days I've gone away from folders almost completely and just put keyswitch information in the track notes area - with all the Kontakt libraries that use keyswitches, I haven't needed to scroll quite so much.

For visual divisions I use empty MIDI tracks so I can arm them and avoid the dreaded 8th-core-of-death, but Blake's look good too.


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## dgburns (Feb 26, 2013)

DocMidi657 @ Tue Feb 26 said:


> Man I wish Apple would update this. My two big issues with Logic are no track based folders like the other guys and the the fact that it can only use one core for recording.



hey,I'm not defending Apple here,I've got my gripes for sure,but a couple points that come to mind.

Logic is limited to calculating things based on the outputs.If you spread out the tracks to multiple interface outs,it will distribute the load more evenly.also,if you record enable an audio track rather than an intrument or midi track,it is taken out of live mode for that track,and the load balancing is more even.

As for the folders,logic has a more flexible way of allowing a folder to contain any objects,where the folder sequence can be moved around as you like.So long as it resides on a "folder" arrange track,it'll play back fine.

it would be a shame if Apple dumbed down Logic from this in the next version.

just my two cents


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## dgburns (Feb 26, 2013)

stonzthro @ Tue Feb 26 said:


> A few years back I had the instruments put into folders by section (Winds/Brass/Percussion/Strings/Synths etc...) and then assigned each folder to a screen set - it worked great except you couldn't see the other tracks for a visual.
> 
> It seems that since Logic consciously veered away from multi-instruments, they could have foreseen massive track counts...
> 
> ...



yes but you can have more than one arrange window open at a time.In fact,I often record from midi at the top level,to audio tracks,which are in a folder,on a different screen,in a second arrange window.works great.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 26, 2013)

I use them for moving extra "scratch" stuff that's in the way but that I don't want to get rid of.


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## dgburns (Feb 26, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Feb 26 said:


> I use them for moving extra "scratch" stuff that's in the way but that I don't want to get rid of.



funny,for that I mute and hide :D 

boy,I think too much about this stuff.


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## JFK (Feb 26, 2013)

dgburns @ Tue Feb 26 said:


> > Now you want to add more tracks to your folders? Logic makes this a slow process for some reason, less you ctrl click/reassign a track to you'd like to add from your environment. However, this track won't have any regions on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good tips. Thanks so much. I think this sort of subtle Logic information would be invaluable to the general public if it were organized somehow


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## dgburns (Feb 27, 2013)

ok,last one,I promise.

ever wanted multiple automation mixes for the same audio in the same place on the timeline(if locked to picture,for instance)

just create an empty region(sequence) for every audio file,just on one track under.Create a key command for automation to cc data in the key commands window,because there are no menu items for this.using your key command shortcut,convert the automation per track into the empty sequence,per track,and then folderize the automation data.you can create as many alternate mixes this way as you like.just mute the folders to cycle through the different mixes.you can always re convert the midi back to automation data later.

this is also great if you want automation data to stay relevant to tempo if you mess around with tempos.


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## dgburns (Feb 27, 2013)

@Blake

good concept.i've been doing this as well.but you don't need folder tracks for the dividers,you can just create empty seq on a midi track that has dashes thru it,or any other name,like 

midi track(dashes)
midi track (Albion strings)
midi track (dashes)

or any such deviance from this.I've seen something like this from a Danish composer,and thought it was a great idea.
I guess you don't even need the empty seq as well on the timeline...


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## JFK (Mar 1, 2013)

Much thanks to everyone for sharing.

This has been touched on in the thread but perhaps I should have been more specific in the title: I'd like to know how others manage big track lists in Logic. 

Last night my cue was approaching 400 and although I crammed the last 1:30 into a folder, then within that folder, made subfolders for the multi-timbrals (Omni, etc). 

It was manageable but there were some issues I ran into that maybe some more experienced users could weigh in on: 

1. Moving tracks with regions in/out of folders is PITA. There's a scary bug when you ⌘Z an unsuccessful copy/paste of >=2 regions from different tracks (see http://logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=68524 (http://logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic ... 25&amp;t=68524)). It replaces your entire folder with a region named '*recording' >8o 

2. 'Dropping' tracks out (say on the 4th beat of a measure) is made more complicated due to no visual reference with the rest of the session. Ended up using markers or memorizing measure #s then switching folders. 

3. Must be diligent about keeping tracks & their regions simple and together. I.E two instances of the same track in different folders. You recycle the track and use it for a different sounds/plugins/etc but unbeknownst to you you're messing with your arrangement elsewhere!

4. Say you're 2 layers into folders. Solo lock gets mixed up and ends up playing a folder that's selected in a higher level.


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## dgburns (Mar 2, 2013)

i'd say you're in pretty deep there.a couple things come to mind.

in my experience(and opinion),I try to only go one folder level deep.I usually only resort to grouping tracks together in a folder when I have to re-edit a cue for changes made by others.I don't usually edit above the folder level to arrange stuff,I'll generally get into the folder and arrange stuff within it.if I need to move stuff out of the folder,I do it all in one go,by using unpack folder,create new tracks,so the tracks are created just below the track the folder resided on,for clarity.I put an empty region at the start of the "project"(ahem monsieur Lurker) so I can use the "delete unused tracks" when I'm at the end and know what tracks I need for sure,and get rid of what isn't needed in the arrange.

obviously others may disagree,but for me,keeping my tracks organized keeps my brain on the music,and I have enough trouble dealing with that as it is.


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## gsilbers (Mar 2, 2013)

Blake Ewing @ Tue Feb 26 said:


> Here is something I am trying with a new strings template.
> 
> I am basically using the "folder" as a visual template divider (it serves no function other than for visual reference).
> 
> I may decide it's completely non-sensical, but thought I would share.




not sure if knows this but.. 

if you open another arrange window and only leave the folder tracks and put it aside to the right you can move around the hundreds of instruments faster by selecing the folder. 

s instead of having 500+ tracks u have to scroll, u see on your right screen (small arrange w folders only) and select the folder u want and the main arange page will go to that folder w all the tracks. 

its how the logic guys at remote control have it setup.


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 2, 2013)

gsilbers @ Sat Mar 02 said:


> Blake Ewing @ Tue Feb 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is something I am trying with a new strings template.
> ...



Yes, the key is to have a blank region on every track in your template as Logic's folder's re region based, not track based.

I tried it for awhile this way, but personally did not care for it.


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## Blake Ewing (Mar 2, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Mar 02 said:


> gsilbers @ Sat Mar 02 said:
> 
> 
> > not sure if knows this but..
> ...



Thanks. Out of curiosity, I tried setting a simple little template up, with empty regions on ten tracks. I put the first five into one folder, and the last five into another folder.

When I open another arrange window though, all I get is an exact copy of the main arrange (whether linked or unlinked is checked). What am I doing wrong?

Based on what is written above, I should be trying to have one arrange window with just the containing folders, and then one arrange window that shows the contents when the folder region is highlighted?

Just wondering what I'm doing wrong here, of if one of you could perhaps elaborate a bit more.

Thanks!
-Blake


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## JFK (Mar 2, 2013)

Blake: Set the link mode on the main arrange to 'Content' (the yellow version)

dgburns: Thanks for your quick responses in this thread. You've helped my workflow quite a bit

gsilbers: nice tip from RC there. this has helped me immensely and hopefully in the future others will be able to dig this thread up and benefit from it

Q for Jay: I'm trying to see how the blank region @ the beginning of each track will be of use. Could I trouble you to elaborate on this method?


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## studioj (Mar 2, 2013)

I remember a really informative post on here from a few years back from whinecellar that goes pretty deep into using folders with a large template and with screenshots too... I couldn't find it though after a quick search.


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 2, 2013)

JFK @ Sat Mar 02 said:


> Q for Jay: I'm trying to see how the blank region @ the beginning of each track will be of use. Could I trouble you to elaborate on this method?



Unlike Cubase, you cannot pack TRACKS into folders, only REGIONS (notice that Pack Folder is under the Regions menu).


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 2, 2013)

Rather than using folders, I have a screenset with my entire studio in an Environment layer on the right (I can scroll to see the rest with Page Down and up), and a shrunken Arrange Window on the left.

Dragging a channel strip from the Environment into the Arrange window creates a track for whatever it is, or else (usually) I just select the track I want and Command-click on the channel strip to assign it to that track.

That cuts down on the number of tracks to navigate (although this Project is mostly empty). This works best if you have a very large monitor - this screen dump is a full 30" Cinema Display shrunken down - or multiple smaller ones.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 2, 2013)

By the way, the one thing I miss about the pre-Logic 8 interface is that the Arrange window could be made narrower. For me to display 32 channel strips horizontally (as in the screenset above), the windows have to overlap.

Small detail.


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## Blake Ewing (Mar 2, 2013)

JFK @ Sat Mar 02 said:


> Blake: Set the link mode on the main arrange to 'Content' (the yellow version)


Ah ha! I knew it had to be something simple I was overlooking.

I'm going to play around with this a bit. It could be quite useful, especially if you have a two monitor setup.

Thanks!


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## JFK (Mar 2, 2013)

studioj @ Sat Mar 02 said:


> I remember a really informative post on here from a few years back from whinecellar that goes pretty deep into using folders with a large template and with screenshots too... I couldn't find it though after a quick search.



Thanks! it's here: http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... 015#208015

Since I've begun experimenting with folders, I've used them as an overarching region that spans the entire project and contains an arrangement unto itself. VERY clunky

Now after reading his post, I'm beginning to see the advantages of using folders as small modular objects that, even though may have upwards 10+ tracks in it, contain maybe only one or two musical parts (regions) in them; aka whatever's needed in that moment in the piece. Finally clicked!

The actual session isn't set up yet but I attached the prototype window layout. Having the environment open at all times is extremely helpful but I have a feeling that as it becomes more streamlined it won't be needed anymore.



EastWest Lurker @ Sat Mar 02 said:


> JFK @ Sat Mar 02 said:
> 
> 
> > Q for Jay: I'm trying to see how the blank region @ the beginning of each track will be of use. Could I trouble you to elaborate on this method?
> ...



Due to pack folder removing the region after execution, this seems like it may be cumbersome to get rid of the now blank track or even replace the dummy region. Perhaps you could elaborate on how you use it? Thanks for your help!


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## drasticmeasures (Mar 13, 2013)

FWIW, I've been using folders in my main template since Logic 7, and I love it. I'll never go back. (though I too envy several Cubase features...)

As I think someone else mentioned, I too have folders by section. So when my template opens I simply see 
WW
BRS
STR
PRC
and then depending on which template i start from, it might also have GTR, SYN, etc.

Obviously each of those folders has a ton of tracks in each one, so it really helps me to not have to scroll down, etc.

My workaround for copying a part from, say, the 1st Violin to 1st chair Flute, is the "paste at original position" command. It's a fast 'command+C', double click, click into WW, track, 'command+shift+V'. For me, that's way faster than scrolling and/or dragging.

Also, what's great is that when i have to conform a cue from a previous picture version, I can start with cutting the folder region and moving that around, and it moves hundreds of tracks instantly with it. WAY easier.

At one point I tried to use folders to keep a single session per cue - so I would pack those section folders into ANOTHER folder called, lets say... m23v2picV7. Then that folder would sit next to the version 1 folder and so on. 
However, I found Logic became VERY unstable at that point, not to mention you had to be careful not to make adjustments to tracks that exist int he previous version....anyway, I digress.


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## IFM (Mar 14, 2013)

I haven't used folders much yet...perhaps after this discussion I will try. Instead I use groups to hide the sections I don't need to see at any given time. This still allows me to get an overview at a click of a button.
Chris


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## JFK (Mar 14, 2013)

Nathan Furst @ Wed Mar 13 said:


> FWIW, I've been using folders in my main template since Logic 7, and I love it. I'll never go back. (though I too envy several Cubase features...)
> 
> As I think someone else mentioned, I too have folders by section. So when my template opens I simply see
> WW
> ...



Nice tips
I often tried the original position method but most of time it would paste it somewhere random in the folder, regardless if said original position is within the bounds of the folder :?


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## whinecellar (Mar 14, 2013)

studioj @ Sat Mar 02 said:


> I remember a really informative post on here from a few years back from whinecellar that goes pretty deep into using folders with a large template and with screenshots too... I couldn't find it though after a quick search.



Not sure where it got to, but I posted a lot of similar stuff over at Gearslutz. Here's the thread with all the screenset/folder shots (it's about half way down the first page):

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... whole.html

Hope this helps! Also attaching my 2009-vintage Arrange window with main instrument group folders...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 14, 2013)

The Paste At Original Position command is fabulous.


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## Tatu (Mar 14, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> The Paste At Original Position command is fabulous.



Yeah, especially when pasting CC! Though for some reason Logic throws 0-x bars of emptiness to the start of the regions for me occasionally. That's an annoying bug.


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## Simplesly (Mar 14, 2013)

I could never get behind using folders to organize my template. I always felt like I was fighting Logic's natural workflow, which is to use region folders as a tool for creating arrangements and grouping similar parts together to reduce screen clutter. 

When I had tried in the past to make a template organized by folders, even with a modestly sized (120 track) project I was getting the "deep architecture" error. It also just got annoying to have that additional arrange page for the folders(I'm on a 27" iMac) wasting space - i felt I had to squint to figure out visually what was going on in my arrangement, and even then it was still a pain.

I have never found a good way to navigate a gazillion track template, so I _stopped using a gazillion track template._ I have everything set up to be able to keyswitch between as many articulations as possible in one track, and I only have loaded what I need to start. Only the most used stuff is displayed - the rest (generic tracks with specific outputs/colors assigned) is hidden, and when I need something more specific I hit "h" and the hidden tracks appear. Then I load a instrument channel strip preset from my _well-organized_ library and unhide the track.

Folders are useful for some things though - I do like to use them further reduce the size of a cue on the page - I select all the cue's regions and pack that beast into a folder, and magically get rid of all that empty space and clean up my mix window at the same time.


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## Colin O'Malley (Mar 14, 2013)

I used to use folders, but there are many times when I want to be working with two instrument groups at once. Winds and strings together for example. I create different groups instead (ie. winds, strings, brass....) and using the show/hide functionality of Logics "groups settings" window I can quickly customize what instruments I want to see. This gives me the organizational benefits I liked in folders in a slightly more flexible way. 

Colin


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## ThomasL (Mar 14, 2013)

Colin O'Malley @ 2013-03-14 said:


> ...and using the show/hide functionality of Logics "groups settings" window I can quickly customize what instruments I want to see...


Excellent tip, thank you!


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## dgburns (Mar 14, 2013)

nice!


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## DocMidi657 (Mar 14, 2013)

Colin..You get "great idea of the year award" from us Logic folks. As my templates have grown this is a much desired strategy I never thought of.

Thank you!
Dave


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 14, 2013)

DocMidi657 @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> Colin..You get "great idea of the year award" from us Logic folks. As my templates have grown this is a much desired strategy I never thought of.
> 
> Thank you!
> Dave



That is what I do as well most of the time.


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## JFK (Mar 14, 2013)

I <3 this board :D


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## IFM (Mar 15, 2013)

DocMidi657 @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> Colin..You get "great idea of the year award" from us Logic folks. As my templates have grown this is a much desired strategy I never thought of.
> 
> Thank you!
> Dave



I said the same thing about using groups instead of folders several posts ago... :? 

=o


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