# Spitfire Audio is finally producing a choir library (with Eric Whitacre!)



## Chris Porter (Nov 25, 2016)

Here's a link to the announcement video from Eric's Facebook page.


----------



## prodigalson (Nov 25, 2016)

IM DEAD! 

An AIR Lyndhurst Choir?!?!?!?!?


----------



## Morodiene (Nov 25, 2016)

I wonder if they will be doing something like EW's Wordbuilder, or if it will be yet another choir library with token phrases, ah's, oos, and mms.


----------



## JanR (Nov 25, 2016)

YAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira (Nov 25, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> or if it will be yet another choir library with token phrases, ah's, oos, and mms.



even then: AIR


----------



## prodigalson (Nov 25, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> I wonder if they will be doing something like EW's Wordbuilder, or if it will be yet another choir library with token phrases, ah's, oos, and mms.



Im sure they have more up there sleeve than just ahs oos and mms but even if not, if the samples have just an 1/8 of the life and beauty of the performance in this video it will be worth it.


----------



## ryanstrong (Nov 25, 2016)

Interesting they allowed Eric to release the announcement vs. Spitfire's marketing department.


----------



## arta (Nov 25, 2016)

The game is about to change.. 

I want to see Spitfire give Strenov Sampling and Soundiron a run for their money.


----------



## Chris Porter (Nov 25, 2016)

ryanstrong said:


> Interesting they allowed Eric to release the announcement vs. Spitfire's marketing department.


Yeah, I was surprised when I saw Eric's post before hearing anything from Spitfire themselves. I'm sure there will be an official announcement before long. Or a stern talking-to if Eric jumped the gun


----------



## J-M (Nov 25, 2016)

Please let it be on Kontakt Player just so I don't have to buy Kontakt to upgrade my choirs. Please!


----------



## Chris Porter (Nov 25, 2016)

MrLinssi said:


> Please let it be on Kontakt Player just so I don't have to buy Kontakt to upgrade my choirs. Please!


Kontakt 5 is 50% right now. There's really no reason not to own the full version at this point. There are too many non-Kontakt Player libraries out there that you're missing out on. You won't regret having it, I promise!

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5/


----------



## J-M (Nov 25, 2016)

Chris Porter said:


> Kontakt 5 is 50% right now. There's really no reason not to own the full version at this point. There are too many non-Kontakt Player libraries out there that you're missing out on. You won't regret having it, I promise!
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5/



My Black Friday budget is already gone.  I do intend to eventually upgrade to full Kontakt, not just right now, because I'm more focused on upgrading my machine.


----------



## tack (Nov 25, 2016)

Here's how I was hoping that video was going to end.

Fade to black.

White block text fade in: "We lied."

5 seconds later, fade to black. Pause 5 seconds.

White block text fade in: "That was samples."

Hard cut to black.


----------



## dhlkid (Nov 25, 2016)

ryanstrong said:


> Interesting they allowed Eric to release the announcement vs. Spitfire's marketing department.


Spitfire mentioned the vocal / choir recording about a year ago in their forum.


----------



## erica-grace (Nov 25, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> I wonder if they will be doing something like EW's Wordbuilder, or if it will be yet another choir library with token phrases, ah's, oos, and mms.



If they are smart, they will do both.


----------



## Øyvind Moe (Nov 25, 2016)

Looking forward to the EW Cluster Builder!


----------



## rocking.xmas.man (Nov 25, 2016)

And we EXPECT a demo of lux aurumque.
...well and actually hope for demos on alleluhja by ralph manuel, oh magnum mysterium by morten lauridsen, Ave Maria by Kevin a. Memley and Es ist ein Ros entsprungen by Jan Sandström.
Great Choir. What a fantastic dynamic range. Sold.


----------



## pixel (Nov 25, 2016)

yes. yes! YES!


----------



## prodigalson (Nov 25, 2016)

SF just "newsflashed" it and linked the video on their FB page...


----------



## airflamesred (Nov 25, 2016)

Chris Porter said:


> Yeah, I was surprised when I saw Eric's post before hearing anything from Spitfire themselves. I'm sure there will be an official announcement before long. Or a stern talking-to if Eric jumped the gun


It has that Spitfire type camera work, they are not daft.


----------



## Musicam (Nov 25, 2016)

Spitfire I would want to say the feeling that you describes in Hans Zimmer trailer: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! :_) 
I LOVE YOU FRIENDS!


----------



## Tinesaeriel (Nov 25, 2016)

Gosh darn it! I was so intent on getting SoundIron's Olympus Choir after Metropolis Ark I, and now Spitfire pulls this on me! Now I gotta wait to see how this Choir library turns out. 

I got Albion ONE a while ago, and while I wasn't at first smitten with it back then, I've since learned to really appreciate how good Spitfire's samples are, and how easy they are to mix and master. If their choir is anything like their recent releases and ONE, then I'mma grabbing me that there choir! Judging by the demo played in Eric's video, it's just the sound I'm looking for in a choir library! Can't wait to hear more!


----------



## playz123 (Nov 25, 2016)

Oh my...so....beautiful a composition and sound. Also glad they are going with a smaller choir and more intimate sound. Can you imagine that in combination with Tundra, for example?


----------



## Musicam (Nov 25, 2016)

Yes, its the magic of Spitfire. Musicians for the musicians! I Love it! I believe that it will be available the next year I dont Know.


----------



## erica-grace (Nov 25, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Oh my...so....beautiful a composition and sound. Also glad they are going with a smaller choir and more intimate sound. Can you imagine that in combination with Tundra, for example?



Did they publish the size of the choir yet? Where is it? I am sure you are not using that video as a reference point for how many singers there are - that's only a promo video, and might not be the actual recording session. So, have they posted the size yet?


----------



## CT (Nov 25, 2016)

Another great composer collaborating with this great company?







At this point, foregoing my planned Black Friday purchases and saving that money for my inevitable and complete Spitfire conversion would be the smart thing to do. I am not smart.


----------



## thov72 (Nov 25, 2016)

Eric Whitacre - Air Lyndhurst - Spitfire ......indeed a perfect match


----------



## Saxer (Nov 25, 2016)

Complete choir sections together... smells like Albion VI 'Stonehenge'.


----------



## higgs (Nov 25, 2016)

Saxer said:


> Complete choir sections together... smells like Albion VI 'Stonehenge'.


"The triptychs are 20-feet high! You can stand four men up in them."


----------



## Penthagram (Nov 25, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> I wonder if they will be doing something like EW's Wordbuilder, or if it will be yet another choir library with token phrases, ah's, oos, and mms.



I wish they do not do something like EW's wordbuilder. And i really think the idea behind wordbuilder was great, but the moment was no mature and the usability is just not there. So i wish whatever they do, is just something that is inspiring to play. And is not so way out of scope in terms of technology, that the result can totally destroy the beauty that this library can be. But i think Spitfire has enough wisdom already from their most than proven experience doing libraries, that whatever it is, will be something well done. 

that's just my opinion. I hate overly complex to use libraries. Or maybe it is that i'm very bad with technology so i never grasp the way to use wordbuilder.

Sorry for my english ( i actually have written everytime Wordbuilder as Worldbuilder )


----------



## Morodiene (Nov 25, 2016)

Penthagram said:


> I wish they do not do something like EW's wordbuilder. And i really think the idea behind wordbuilder was great, but the moment was no mature and the usability is just not there. So i wish whatever they do, is just something that is inspiring to play. And is not so way out of scope in terms of technology, that the result can totally destroy the beauty that this library can be. But i think Spitfire has enough wisdom already from their most than proven experience doing libraries, that whatever it is, will be something well done.
> 
> that's just my opinion. I hate overly complex to use libraries. Or maybe it is that i'm very bad with technology so i never grasp the way to use wordbuilder.
> 
> Sorry for my english ( i actually have written everytime Wordbuilder as Worldbuilder )


I respect your opinion, but for those of us who do need our choirs to sing actual words (like Eric Whitacre does), I was hoping that there would at least be one other choir out there with the ability to program lyrics. Yes, that is complicated. But how many choir libraries exist and only _one_ can do words? Especially with the kind of sound it appears Spitfire is going for with this library, I'd think words would be even more significant.


----------



## Saxer (Nov 25, 2016)

The problem with a wordbuilder is: it has to be convincing. Mostly it's either not understandable or it sounds silly. I think it would be much easier to just program the vowels so the user can add a few tracks of singing or whispering the words on top.


----------



## Penthagram (Nov 25, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> I respect your opinion, but for those of us who do need our choirs to sing actual words (like Eric Whitacre does), I was hoping that there would at least be one other choir out there with the ability to program lyrics. Yes, that is complicated. But how many choir libraries exist and only _one_ can do words? Especially with the kind of sound it appears Spitfire is going for with this library, I'd think words would be even more significant.



I repeat, i think having syllabes and words and replicating the human voice nuances so perfectly will be amazing. But, why no one else is doing it, is perhaps the answer. We have lot's of libraries with quite good syllabe control over marcatos and they work quite good.

But legato and words are a very different matter. I wish i'm saying something very stupid but, our language is a super complex thing and our brains are developed to decipher and understand even in very difficult situation, so we detect failures in connections or anomalies very easily, this with the fact that the sample pool to connect with legatos all of the possible combinations of syllabes, notes, etc,....i don't know...i feel it's just an enormous task.

i wish i'm wrong  it's just that i try to think how the way to achieve this is. And is just mindblowing. Sure it's doable. the thing is when


----------



## MChangoM (Nov 25, 2016)

Penthagram said:


> I repeat, i think having syllabes and words and replicating the human voice nuances so perfectly will be amazing. But, why no one else is doing it, is perhaps the answer.



I don't think we're too far off from being able to type in lyrics and have them sung realistically by a virtual instrument choir. Adobe is progressing well with doing this for the spoken word after 20 minutes of "training" by a human voice.



It is easy to imagine extending this for vocals. Although the Adobe VoCo demo is kind of scary in many ways, it is pretty exciting in terms of musical vocals. I hope to see it in my lifetime.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Nov 25, 2016)

Oh my...I have no words. 



...what am I going to do now with my bf budget??! Huh? Did you think of that Spitfire? Did you think of the serious mental anguish this is going to cause?
Damn you Spitfire. 
I love you Spitfire.


----------



## Penthagram (Nov 25, 2016)

MChangoM said:


> I don't think we're too far off from being able to type in lyrics and have them sung realistically by a virtual instrument choir. Adobe is progressing well with doing this for the spoken word after 20 minutes of "training" by a human voice.
> 
> 
> 
> It is easy to imagine extending this for vocals. Although the Adobe VoCo demo is kind of scary in many ways, it is pretty exciting in terms of musical vocals. I hope to see it my lifetime.




I wish as well! thx for sharing :D


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Nov 25, 2016)

MChangoM said:


> I hope to see it my lifetime.


Don't take this the wrong way but I hope you're 98 and feeling poorly.


----------



## MChangoM (Nov 25, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Don't take this the wrong way but I hope you're 98 and feeling poorly.



Another added to the long list who feel the same way!


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 25, 2016)

Sweet I think I requested a choir library from Spitfire back when I first purchased Albion 2 better start saving the pennies after Xmas


----------



## Zhao Shen (Nov 25, 2016)

Holy shit. The myth becomes a reality... I absolutely cannot wait for this. Aside from some fantastic work from Strezov Sampling, very few notable choir libraries have been released in the recent years... I wonder how much progress Spitfire will make?


----------



## tack (Nov 25, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> what am I going to do now with my bf budget??!


Spend it now, and use next year's budget to pick up Spitfire's new choir library, which is probably about when it will be for sale following an inevitable protracted period of post-production.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Nov 25, 2016)

tack said:


> Spend it now, and use next year's budget to pick up Spitfire's new choir library, which is probably about when it will be for sale following an inevitable protracted period of post-production.


of course you are correct.


----------



## tack (Nov 25, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


>


I am not entirely sure why, but I'm now reminded of:


----------



## Rctec (Nov 25, 2016)

This will be different, this will be amazing. This is Eric Whitacre, after all. One -if not the - greatest modern day composer for voices.
No, I have nothing to do with this and even though I know all the parties involved, I dint even know they where doing it (I'm just finding it hard to get studio time at AIR for a couple of movies I have on the go - well, now I know why!)
I did a concert with Eric a couple of years ago at the Roundhouse (he obviously couldn't find a decent piano player...) and his singers absolutely blew me away.
Just watch this to the end:


Best,

-Hz-


----------



## tack (Nov 25, 2016)

That was moving. Thanks for sharing, Hans.

Imagine if Spitfire could get a fraction of the way to this performance. I can't, actually, but if they could ...


----------



## benatural (Nov 25, 2016)

Rctec said:


>




Holy crap that was brilliant!


----------



## arta (Nov 25, 2016)

I wonder if Spitfire will start solo vocal libraries next year. So far the best I've heard are Best Services Shevannai and 8dio's vocal series.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 25, 2016)

Awesome News ! 

A Spitfire Choir Library was a missing part of the Spitfire Catalog. Now that this seems to have changed, I wonder if they will have a flexible/sophisticated word builder to go with it ? or will it be mostly oohs, aahs, ...etc. ? or ... ?


----------



## higgs (Nov 25, 2016)

arta said:


> I wonder if Spitfire will start solo vocal libraries next year. So far the best I've heard are Best Services Shevannai and 8dio's vocal series.


8Dio Jennifer and Studio Sopranos are my two most used vocal libraries. They really are two great libraries. I hope this is greater, but I suspect it will be at least as great.


----------



## arta (Nov 25, 2016)

higgs said:


> 8Dio Jennifer and Studio Sopranos are my two most used vocal libraries. They really are two great libraries. I hope this is greater, but I suspect it will be at least as great.


I bought those two earlier this year when they were on sale. They are great.

You should check out Eduardo Tarilonte vocal libraries on Best Service, like Shevannai, Atlus and Kwaya. Amazing quality plus you get some great atmospheres as a bonus! Dude is a one man army.


----------



## Mike Fox (Nov 25, 2016)

Wait until Orchestral Tools releases a choir library.


----------



## Dave Connor (Nov 25, 2016)

mikefox789 said:


> Wait until Orchestral Tools releases a choir library.


It was no exaggeration when Hans said Eric Whitacre may be the greatest choral composer working today. He's certainly in the top tier. That's a lovely piece above which captures his love of old and new. The fact is that he has so many stunning works of such a wide range it's hard to keep track of them all. In the academic world he's widely recognized as the vanguard with his innovative and highly singable music in the great tradition of the art. Just beautiful stuff.

My point is that if _that guy _is doing a library with the Spitfire team at Air… I know one person who won't be waiting for another library… and I just bought a big one.


----------



## Mike Fox (Nov 25, 2016)

Dave Connor said:


> It was no exaggeration when Hans said Eric Whitacre may be the greatest choral composer working today. He's certainly in the top tier. That's a lovely piece above which captures his love of old and new. The fact is that he has so many stunning works of such a wide range it's hard to keep track of them all. In the academic world he's widely recognized as the vanguard with his innovative and highly singable music in the great tradition of the art. Just beautiful stuff.
> 
> My point is that if _that guy _is doing a library with the Spitfire team at Air… I know one person who won't be waiting for another library… and I just bought a big one.


One can only hope that this will be the be-all end-all choir library. We certainly need one! However, what OT has done with the choir in Ark 1 is just incredible, and one can only imagine what they could do If they created a full blown choir library. Competition at its best!


----------



## benmrx (Nov 25, 2016)

I could see them creating a sort of performance legato system that allowed control of consonants and vowels.


----------



## Dave Connor (Nov 25, 2016)

mikefox789 said:


> One can only hope that this will be the be-all end-all choir library. We certainly need one! However, what OT has done with the choir in Ark 1 is just incredible, and one can only imagine what they could do If they created a full blown choir library. Competition at its best!


I only meant that if Eric Whitacre is doing a choral library you just get it. It's like HZ percussion or something. These guys aren't suddenly going to do something sub par compared with their output. Already being sold on the Spitfire guys you hardly need to be sold on these great musicians doing something that is so in their wheelhouse. I'm not saying other great libraries aren't going to come out and be highly useful and cover all the bases or whatever. In this case you have to realize just how special Eric Whitacre is. He is a major creative force in the choral world and it's not like he won't bring his insight and expertise to this project. There are a lot of sample developers but only one Eric Whitacre.


----------



## Lode_Runner (Nov 25, 2016)

arta said:


> I wonder if Spitfire will start solo vocal libraries next year. So far the best I've heard are Best Services Shevannai and 8dio's vocal series.


A Spitfire AIR Lisa Gerrard vocal library would be amazing.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 25, 2016)

An Orchestral Tools Choir Library would be great. Hopefully during the first half of 2017, and I wouldn't be too surprised if they do that.


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 25, 2016)

Previous Spitfire libraries have always been about playability and musicality and I feel that will be their priority here as well hopefully rather than jumping through hoops 

="benmrx, post: 4020302, member: 4275"]I could see them creating a sort of performance legato system that allowed control of consonants and vowels.[/QUOTE]


----------



## ChristopherDoucet (Nov 25, 2016)

Very exciting!


----------



## Karl Feuerstake (Nov 25, 2016)

I would be careful with choir libraries. Mind you, all samples inherently suffer from problems in creating 'realistic' mock-ups even when recorded at the highest of quality, but all the choir libraries I've encountered are greatly notorious for sounding "fake" or "sampled."

What I mean to say is: while you might get away with doctoring String, Brass, and especially Percussion samples to be 'close to realistic' (percussion being fairly easy) - choir is extremely hard to make sound believable, and at times, becomes outright impossible without getting someone to actually sing the entire line into a microphone.

But if you just want some big "ah" sustains.. well, maybe you don't need Air. Or maybe you do, I don't know; I like Air as well. But I've yet to hear a choir library that says to me "this will actually sound believable."


----------



## HirushanDM (Nov 25, 2016)

Holy Oranges!!! .....Better start saving ladies and gentlemen!


----------



## Alatar (Nov 26, 2016)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> choir is extremely hard to make sound believable, and at times, becomes outright impossible without getting someone to actually sing the entire line into a microphone.



Yeah, I think that is because we know the human voice so well. Our ears seem to be much better at detecting small shifts in a voice than say, in a cello.


----------



## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Nov 26, 2016)

Really? Just when I thought that I was finished buying libraries. Well, even if I can't afford this one, the walk-through video with Paul or Christian should be fun to watch. Sometimes dreaming about owning a library is just as fun as actually owning it.


----------



## Chris Porter (Nov 26, 2016)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> Really? Just when I thought that I was finished buying libraries. Well, even if I can't afford this one, the walk-through video with Paul or Christian should be fun to watch. Sometimes dreaming about owning a library is just as fun as actually owning it.



I was up until 4:00 in the morning just browsing Black Friday sales, listening to audio demos, watching overview videos...and not buying anything. Just enjoying thinking about all the options I'll hopefully be in a position to purchase eventually.


----------



## Hafer (Nov 26, 2016)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> Sometimes dreaming about owning a library is just as fun as actually owning it.


That insight happens to work for me only if i add "I want to believe" at the beginning


----------



## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Nov 26, 2016)

Hafer said:


> That insight happens to work for me only if i add "I want to believe" at the beginning



I know what you mean. I don't often buy lottery tickets. May once every five years, when to win is really huge. I know that I will lose, but that one dollar gives me the fantasy of "What if I did win?" A lot of fun dreaming for just one dollar.


----------



## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Nov 26, 2016)

Chris Porter said:


> I was up until 4:00 in the morning just browsing Black Friday sales, listening to audio demos, watching overview videos...and not buying anything. Just enjoying thinking about all the options I'll hopefully be in a position to purchase eventually.



I love your videos. They are long. I love long videos that teach me something. You always do. I guess with the MTV generation, attention spans are short so they hate long videos. Short videos always make me feel short changed. Anyway, I wanted to say thank you for your videos. They are fun and informative.


----------



## Chris Porter (Nov 26, 2016)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> I love your videos. They are long. I love long videos that teach me something. You always do. I guess with the MTV generation, attention spans are short so they hate long videos. Short videos always make me feel short changed. Anyway, I wanted to say thank you for your videos. They are fun and informative.


I think you may have me confused with someone else, or you meant to reply to someone else. I haven't really produced any informative videos that I can remember.


----------



## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Nov 26, 2016)

Chris Porter said:


> I think you may have me confused with someone else, or you meant to reply to someone else. I haven't really produced any informative videos that I can remember.



Well don't I feel like an idiot now? Haha. I got you mixed up with Chris Harris. I guess I can be accused of "All Chris's sound alike to him" now. Oops. Sorry. I do enjoy your posts though.


----------



## Chris Porter (Nov 26, 2016)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> Well don't I feel like an idiot now? Haha. I got you mixed up with Chris Harris. I guess I can be accused of "All Chris's sound alike to him" now. Oops. Sorry. I do enjoy your posts though.


Not a problem!


----------



## R.Cato (Nov 26, 2016)

Knowing Eric's great music I don't think it will be similar to other choir libraries or replace them. It will be more like an awesome complementary library I guess.


----------



## Morodiene (Nov 26, 2016)

R.Cato said:


> Knowing Eric's great music I don't think it will be similar to other choir libraries or replace them. It will be more like an awesome complementary library I guess.


Yes, I agree. I think this sound - one that is focused on a capella choir or a more intimate choir sound is different from the "epic choir" sound or background choir sound you hear in soundtracks. Nothing against that, but Whitacre is in a completely different ballgame. 

Obviously, we haven't yet heard what this library can do, but I suspect it is not going to replace anything out there, but be a unique library that will give composers access to something that we haven't had before. And I am hopeful there are words. Without words, it will still be unique, but they are so important to this kind of composing it would be a shame if it didn't exist.


----------



## jamwerks (Nov 26, 2016)

Nice piece there linked by HZ ! Would love to see how the last part was notated. Don't really understand how they could pull that off. There must be many singers there with absolute pitch! It's also refreshing seeing a "selfless" conductor, one interested in the music and not about himself.

The human voice may be the hardest instrument to sample. 8dio and Mike Greene (and others) have made advances. And everybody seems to have different technics. Don't know if it's possible to get it right the first time, if you've never done voices before, but I hope this goes well for SF (cause I know I'll buy it if it does!).


----------



## Chris Porter (Nov 26, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> Nice piece there linked by HZ ! Would love to see how the last part was notated. Don't really understand how they could pull that off. There must be many singers there with absolute pitch! It's also refreshing seeing a "selfless" conductor, one interested in the music and not about himself.



Taking a look at the "Performance Notes" on the score for the piece HZ linked is quite revealing! 

1. The mood is meditative. 
2. The pace is relatively slow.
3. Everyone starts together. 
4. Choral sections may be cued in one-by-one
5. Individuals (not sections) move at their own speed, but only after having comfortably reached the end of a breath. 
6. The singers may want to listen to the beauty of each different new harmonic connection. 
7. The duration of the work is anywhere from three to twenty-five minutes long. 
8. Each individual note contains an implied crescendo and diminuendo. 
9. The original text may be employed or other sounds (vowel and consonant) may be substituted so as to permit a mellifluous progression. 
10. Muted instruments (brass, strings) may be added ad libitum, following directions similar to the singers.


----------



## jacobthestupendous (Nov 26, 2016)

Well, if anyone is qualified to run quality control on a library featuring the a capella human voice, it's Mr. Whitacre. 

My minor concern is with the normal Spitfire library issue of Air buildup.


----------



## jamwerks (Nov 26, 2016)

jacobthestupendous said:


> Well, if anyone is qualified to run quality control on a library featuring the a capella human voice, it's Mr. Whitacre.


Not saying no. But does he know enough about sampling and editing? There is so much to know for a project like this, that goes beyond capacities as a conductor or composer...


----------



## Chris Porter (Nov 26, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> Not saying no. But does he know enough about sampling and editing? There is so much to know for a project like this, that goes beyond capacities as a conductor or composer...


They are using _his _singers, so I'm sure that him supervising the actual performances will be very beneficial to the project as a whole. However, I'm sure that the usual experts at Spitfire who are very familiar with sampling and editing will be overseeing exactly what is being recorded and how.


----------



## Scamper (Nov 26, 2016)

jacobthestupendous said:


> My minor concern is with the normal Spitfire library issue of Air buildup.



Well, those singers need something to breathe.


----------



## Rob Elliott (Nov 26, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> Not saying no. But does he know enough about sampling and editing? There is so much to know for a project like this, that goes beyond capacities as a conductor or composer...


Indeed an important chink in the chain. Here's hoping - human voice is closest to all of us since we ALL have one (as noted we notice the VERY smallest of 'issues'). Hats off to SF for giving this a go with the right conductor, voices and a LOT of attention to detail.


----------



## Robert Tewes (Nov 26, 2016)

The piece shared by HZ is remarkably similar to a piece I sang by Norwegian composer, Knut Nystedt, under his direction. Nystedt has since died. It featured the same chorale melody, but used the German "Komm susser tod" and ended with the aleatoric formula like the one referenced by HZ. Whitacre gave credit to Edwin Munden (spelling?). Would be interested to know more about this. Here is a Wikipedia link to an article on Nystedt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knut_Nystedt 
Here is a You Tube version of a performance of the piece:


----------



## erica-grace (Nov 26, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> But does he know enough about sampling and editing? There is so much to know for a project like this, that goes beyond capacities as a conductor or composer...



Why would he need to? He is not going to do either - Jake Jackson (or whoever the engineer is) will be dong the recording. Eric won't be doing the editing either - that'll be someone from the Spitfire team.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 26, 2016)

Spitfire are on fire. 2016 has been relentless so far.


----------



## synthpunk (Nov 26, 2016)

I can almost forgive them for quietly raising their USD prices to counteract the weaker GBP




jononotbono said:


> Spitfire are on fire. 2016 has been relentless so far.


----------



## Zhao Shen (Nov 26, 2016)

synthpunk said:


> I can almost forgive them for quietly raising their USD prices to counteract the weaker GBP



Yeahhhh somehow I think their awesome store update that provides localized currency prices had some not-so-generous motives... But hey, they're a profit-driven company.


----------



## Niah2 (Nov 26, 2016)

This is very very interesting and exciting...


----------



## Karsten Vogt (Nov 26, 2016)

I had a chance to get a little peak of the recordings. :D


----------



## jsmithsebasto (Nov 26, 2016)

*H-Y-P-E-D* for this. Spitfire does NOT mess around.


----------



## tack (Nov 26, 2016)

Karsten Vogt said:


> I had a chance to get a little peak of the recordings. :D


I was expecting something more like this:


----------



## WhiteNoiz (Nov 27, 2016)

? Maybe:






I also see some familiar faces from here:


<3


----------



## jamwerks (Nov 27, 2016)

erica-grace said:


> Why would he need to? He is not going to do either - Jake Jackson (or whoever the engineer is) will be dong the recording. Eric won't be doing the editing either - that'll be someone from the Spitfire team.


Silly me. I was sure he'd be the one placing the mic's, chopping the samples, and also doing the cleaning afterwards.


----------



## jacobthestupendous (Dec 13, 2016)

Any more news on when we can look forward to more news on this?


----------



## Musicam (Dec 13, 2016)

When it will available? I cannot wait! Emotion like Tundra:_)


----------



## windyweekend (Dec 28, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> I respect your opinion, but for those of us who do need our choirs to sing actual words (like Eric Whitacre does), I was hoping that there would at least be one other choir out there with the ability to program lyrics. Yes, that is complicated. But how many choir libraries exist and only _one_ can do words? Especially with the kind of sound it appears Spitfire is going for with this library, I'd think words would be even more significant.


I totally agree with both opinions on this (!). I'm feeling in my bones that this gem will come with a sizable price tag as it is; add on words and suddenly this could easily become an astronomical expense. The cost to produce it would have quadrupled the time in Air studios so I'm actually hoping it doesn't have them!


----------



## EvilDragon (Dec 28, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> I was hoping that there would at least be one other choir out there with the ability to program lyrics. Yes, that is complicated. But how many choir libraries exist and only _one_ can do words?



Virharmonic choir can also do words. Not just EWQLSC.


----------



## Morodiene (Dec 28, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Virharmonic choir can also do words. Not just EWQLSC.


Sorry, I wasn't specific: a choir that can do _any_ words you want it to. Not some amalgamation of phonemes that may be sort of close but still way off.


----------



## Musicam (Dec 28, 2016)

Musicam said:


> When it will available? I cannot wait! Emotion like Tundra:_)


Dont panic man, dont panic I cannot wait!:_)


----------



## EvilDragon (Dec 28, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> Sorry, I wasn't specific: a choir that can do _any_ words you want it to. Not some amalgamation of phonemes that may be sort of close but still way off.



Yeah I think that's far away from sampling realm, there's just so many factors in word creation where sampling really isn't feasible. Physical modeling is where it's at, but it's gonna be years until it gets completely believable for human voice, let alone a choir of such voices. Vocaloid is making huge strides in this technology, but it still isn't 100% realistic.


----------



## Morodiene (Dec 28, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Yeah I think that's far away from sampling realm, there's just so many factors in word creation where sampling really isn't feasible. Physical modeling is where it's at, but it's gonna be years until it gets completely believable for human voice, let alone a choir of such voices. Vocaloid is making huge strides in this technology, but it still isn't 100% realistic.


I agree, although I have my doubts about modeling the human voice, but certainly a choir would be easier than a solo voice. 

Still, what EWSC did is amazing. I just hold out hope that someday someone else will tackle the Wordbuilder/Votox idea. It's been done so we know it's possible.


----------



## Musicam (Dec 28, 2016)

Wordbuilder is amazing tool but old tool, is my opinion. Ten years ago.


----------



## novaburst (Dec 28, 2016)

Penthagram said:


> But legato and words are a very different matter



I am still not sure why developer want sit down with a choir and have them record 50 to a hundred types of legatos, in many different types of notes wordings and just take as long as it takes until you can do a descent piece with it,

I am sure users would pay the price as it would be pretty pricey to purchase, I think I shy away from choir librarys because I just don't know what to do with aaaaaaaarrrhhhhhh, and ooooooooh, there have been some limited attempts from zero G and others but it really sounds strange and when demos are played it is drowned behind music.

if the library works out to expensive maybe you can purchase a few words at a time until your in need of more words, but all in all I think developers are put off because of the time it will take.

Yes the human voice is extremely complex and gives off endless vibes, you can tell when some one is sad even when there trying to make you believe there happy just by listing to there voice.

Also the human voice can be made to do many things easy, the human voice can manipulate, deceive,
warm you, make you angry, so why cant developers do a great choir some thing of O T standard, in clear words, like love, river, stream, the maintains, the green trees, fly away, the sun is shining, singing many different legatos, and sustain notes solo and a choir

when the voice is singing the voice is much more easy to work with in a recording situation.

It is hard to tell if stitfire is going down this road, the only way I can see it working is by limiting the amount of words being used and buy doing a kind of word by demand sort of thing.

But it is a great opportunity for spitfire to do something no other developer has done and that's not to go down the same root and do some thing different 

So I am talking you should be able to do a solo with no music hiding the imperfections as well as a full choir,


----------



## Musicam (Dec 28, 2016)

This is a great proyect I feel!


----------



## Morodiene (Dec 28, 2016)

Musicam said:


> Wordbuilder is amazing tool but old tool, is my opinion. Ten years ago.


I know! Which is why I want someone else to do it now - hopefully with improvements in both the sounds (legato samples) and flexibility.


----------



## Musicam (Dec 28, 2016)

I would like that the choir was versatile, classic articulations, FX and with a phrases builder rather than wordbuilder. I cannot wait. Emotion like Tundra. I dream with more series of choirs... :_)


----------



## Musicam (Dec 28, 2016)

I wait also BRASS EVO and Bernard Library.


----------



## quantum7 (Dec 28, 2016)

I think that I've purchased nearly all the major choir libs released in the past 10 years, and although I've achieved great results with most of them, I still feel like sampled choirs have not reached the levels of the finest string libs in 2016. Here's hoping the SF finally does it.....and PLEASE include a children's choir (sorry if it has been mentioned already).


----------



## LamaRose (Dec 28, 2016)

The Bernard Evo Choir, please... hold the mayo.


----------



## novaburst (Dec 29, 2016)

quantum7 said:


> I think that I've purchased nearly all the major choir libs released in the past 10 years, and although I've achieved great results with most



@quantum7 that is nice to hear, is there one or two library's that you would recommend to use out of the choir library's you have, was there one that was a go to library.

Thanks


----------



## kurtvanzo (Dec 29, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> I know! Which is why I want someone else to do it now - hopefully with improvements in both the sounds (legato samples) and flexibility.



If they start now, with every syllable and legato type/speed- men, women, and children, with soloists, they should finsh by 2022 or so. I'm hoping someone started in 2011 and is just working out the bugs.


----------



## novaburst (Dec 29, 2016)

kurtvanzo said:


> they should finsh by 2022 or so. I'm hoping someone started in 2011



I would have said 2023, if they started in 2010,

Ok but 4 real these things take such a long time so I'm not sure why some one has not started one yet.

Which brings me to say that Spitfire will not be going down the word mode, as this would be to soon an announcement, it would need to be announced some where in the the future, so I think it my be something that we have seen before, perhaps a little change here and there may be a word builder but it's nothing that has not been already attended, and not very high standard.

But let's wait and see.


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 29, 2016)

There's no hope of any kind of word builder feature, IMO. Spitfire are into sound quality and texture, dynamics and realism. There's a reason the video shows Whitacre's 'Sleep' with them only singing vowels. I imagine the appeal of the library to be interesting articulations, textures and timbral variety with multiple mic perspectives in AIR Lyndhurst. I wouldn't imagine they're trying to create a utilitarian library that can render every single thing you might want.


----------



## Morodiene (Dec 29, 2016)

Does anyone know how long it took EastWest to make the Wordbuilder? From what I can tell (and I may be wrong), it appears that they recorded all the various vowels and consonants separately. Which is why you have 6 different patches in the wordbuilder sounds. Each one serves a different purpose, like track 6 would be the aspirate consonants, 4 would be voiced consonants, 1 would be Ah vowels, something like that.

But I do suspect this choir lib will not have words, or be very limited like most of the others. As I said, one can still hope.


----------



## AllanH (Dec 29, 2016)

FWIW, Realivox Blue does have some ability to sing user-defined words and phrases. Blue is a bit delicate, but with enough R&D it seems doable to provide a word/phrase builder for a choir.

http://realitone.com/blue/


----------



## AllanH (Dec 29, 2016)

My hope for the Spitfire/Whitacre Choir is that it accurately captures the delicate and lyrical aspects that I associate with Whitacre. I find the the "screaming" epic/symphonic choirs overwhelming and a poor fit for my work.


----------



## kurtvanzo (Dec 29, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> Does anyone know how long it took EastWest to make the Wordbuilder? From what I can tell (and I may be wrong), it appears that they recorded all the various vowels and consonants separately. Which is why you have 6 different patches in the wordbuilder sounds. Each one serves a different purpose, like track 6 would be the aspirate consonants, 4 would be voiced consonants, 1 would be Ah vowels, something like that.
> 
> But I do suspect this choir lib will not have words, or be very limited like most of the others. As I said, one can still hope.



EastWest back in the day (2006?) were nuts. They either hired a huge amount of editors or were working night and day to get Sym Choirs and the Hollywood series done (especially HS). I would bet SC was the hardest, and they had years of updates before it all worked as smoothly as today. Nick and co were crazy to take it on, I'm not sure how they finished without years of all-nighters. There's a reason they've not tackled it since, Nick is probably in a rest home. 

I think many have started doing the same in the last 10 years, but stop once they realize how difficult it is. Just consider the newest, Arva, has only a few vowels and consonants, and it must have been a couple of years for them to get through all the material (boys, girls, they are still working on the soloists!).

Something like Realivox Blue (a great wordbuilder with a clean voice) take years of dedication, not just planning and recording, but scripting and debugging, and rerecording, on so many samples and patches; I'm surprised Mike is still excited about doing vocal libraries. Then to find out many people consider singing to be an "easy instrument" and decide to do it themselves. Getting more than a couple hundred for a vocal library is difficult, yet the work involved is much more than any orchestral instrument , which has a larger costumer base. So developers tend to stay away from instruments that take the most amount of work and are appreciated the least (Harmonica also has this issue).

Mike has discussed in other threads the difficulty of making these libraries, then even more so SELLING these libraries. For those interested in more, I suggest at least purchasing Realivox Blue to show your support. If enough people jump in, we should see more in the next few years (meaning some developers started years ago and are unsure if it's worth continuing). Personally I'm love a male (Michael McDonald? ) and an R&B female(s). Someday.


----------



## EvilDragon (Dec 29, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> Which is why you have 6 different patches in the wordbuilder sounds.



No, this is because of limitations of Kontakt/Kompakt Player back in the day regarding how many groups/zones an instrument can have. Ditto for the old EWQLSO Platinum, multi-mics were done in multis rather than instruments, but Kontakt grew and with today's Kontakt those patches wouldn't need to be multis at all, and the whole wordbuilder would also be possible in a single NKI. Alas, EW bailed out and made their own sampler.


----------



## novaburst (Dec 29, 2016)

AllanH said:


> FWIW, Realivox Blue does have some ability to sing user-defined words and phrases. Blue is a bit delicate, but with enough R&D it seems doable to provide a word/phrase builder for a choir.
> 
> http://realitone.com/blue/



This is an example of what can be achieved on a very low level, you can understand if this developer spent perhaps another year or so, a little research, and more help, this library would have been a choir library changer, it would have been the one to have 

But this developer is on the correct road

If this developer does a follow up it would be interesting to see if there is any improvements.


----------



## Morodiene (Dec 29, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> No, this is because of limitations of Kontakt/Kompakt Player back in the day regarding how many groups/zones an instrument can have. Ditto for the old EWQLSO Platinum, multi-mics were done in multis rather than instruments, but Kontakt grew and with today's Kontakt those patches wouldn't need to be multis at all, and the whole wordbuilder would also be possible in a single NKI. Alas, EW bailed out and made their own sampler.


But this works in creating words.


----------



## EvilDragon (Dec 29, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> But this works in creating words.



Sure, but it's circumstantial to how Kontakt was at the time. If it were redone today, it'd very likely fit into one instrument per voice (S, A, T, B).


----------



## Niah2 (Dec 29, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> Does anyone know how long it took EastWest to make the Wordbuilder?



As far as I remember correctly the wordbuilding already existed, it was created by a portuguese university professor and EW just appropriated it...


----------



## Morodiene (Dec 29, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Sure, but it's circumstantial to how Kontakt was at the time. If it were redone today, it'd very likely fit into one instrument per voice (S, A, T, B).


But it can be done, since it's been done before. That's all I'm saying. I'm not a programmer and I don't know the process. But I do know things can be learned form what comes before, and improved upon.


----------



## JohnG (Dec 29, 2016)

It's an interesting discussion.

I guess I ask myself what I hope for / expect -- I think it's impossible to create a choir library that is all of this:

1. manageable in size and complexity,

2. covers more than one language idiomatically,

3. is a lot "clearer" in enunciation of text than what is out there, but still musically smooth enough where desired. (I would guess that a certain blurriness covers a lot of problems, so the clearer you make the enunciation, the jumpier a passage might become)

These are huge challenges, but Spitfire have continually exceeded my expectations and the Air studio seems also to have some kind of magic as well, so I am very excited too about their undertaking.

Although I also have bought a number of other libraries over the years, often I still use the old EWQL Symphonic Choir if I want specific lyrics. (by the way, the extension that includes Voice of the Apocalypse is important in rounding out the palette).

With Symphonic Choirs, I think EW achieved a balance of precision and not-too-much-precision that works rather well, especially if it's part of the orchestral texture. I would guess that any library that makes words even more intelligible would have to be a lot bigger and take some pretty clever software to remain natural-sounding. 

Symphonic Choirs certainly offers a lot more flexibility than the "list of syllables" approach other libraries use. Some of those, to my ears, are not meaningfully clearer-sounding or smoother than SC when played back and anyway I find a list of words a bit unsatisfactory. Now that WordBuilder is integrated into PLAY, it's possible speedily to generate choir passages that suggest words with some authenticity. Still takes a fair amount of tweaking to get the words somewhat intelligible, and a _lot_ of tweaking to be fairly convincing if the passage is _a capella_ (without any other instruments playing). And of course it's not going to substitute for a choir.

Fingers crossed and best of luck to Spitfire.

[note: I have received free products from East West]


----------



## LamaRose (Dec 29, 2016)

If the video is representative of what Spitfire is shooting for, I'd be more than happy with just vowels and consonants, along with some smaller ensembles to arrange with, and maybe soloists to punctuate certain notes/passages. Inspiring to play, inspiring to playback.


----------



## Musicam (Dec 30, 2016)

Melody- vocals, harmony -consonants.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 30, 2016)

JohnG said:


> It's an interesting discussion.
> 
> I guess I ask myself what I hope for / expect -- I think it's impossible to create a choir library that is all of this:



Great post, John. And at this point it's true, no plugin will give you that sound (you can program round robins and breaths all you want...no). However, given the amazing strides that percussion libraries have made in the past five years, I'm wondering if the virtual choir (and other instruments) might become a reality in another....say, ten.

Technology seems to be truly unstoppable; in the past year I replaced a troublesome drummer with Superior Drummer on a couple of songs, and nobody was the wiser.

Really.


----------



## quantum7 (Dec 30, 2016)

novaburst said:


> @quantum7 that is nice to hear, is there one or two library's that you would recommend to use out of the choir library's you have, was there one that was a go to library.
> 
> Thanks



My favorite choirs have come from Virharmonic and Soundiron. I own all of their choir libraries and used them heavily on my last album with very satisfactory results.


----------



## Wunderhorn (Dec 30, 2016)

I wonder if there would be a chance that this choir library will be the first ever with a true ppp layer as opposed to the shouting competitions that are currently on the market...? I'd love that.


----------



## desert (Jan 8, 2017)

Soo any news of this yet?


----------



## Zhao Shen (Jan 8, 2017)

Wait have they actually offered a timeframe or project status? I just assumed that its announcement meant that they were starting and that it might release sometime in late 2017 or early 2018...


----------



## Musicam (Jan 9, 2017)

I think that Spitfire will announce the choir library in NAMM and then 2018... Like Bernard Hermmann Library...


----------



## Niah2 (Jan 9, 2017)

I think that if in the end it turns out to be a choir that is quiet, soft, smaller and gentle is already a big win for us. The problem of course is that it is much harder to achieve musical and realistic results with a soft smaller choir than say an epic and loud choir.


----------



## Lotias (Jan 9, 2017)

Niah2 said:


> I think that if in the end it turns out to be a choir that is quiet, soft, smaller and gentle is already a big win for us. The problem of course is that it is much harder to achieve musical and realistic results with a soft smaller choir than say an epic and loud choir.


Some of the folks at Spitfire always say the magic happens in the quieter dynamics (variations of those words are on many of their pages, and it's said directly in their video about making your own samples), so it wouldn't surprise me if there was at least some focus on the quiet and soft.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Jan 9, 2017)

it's all about the contrast.


----------



## Rodney Money (Jan 9, 2017)

My friends, I had the absolute pleasure to spend about a week with Eric back in the early 2000's when he visited my college. I got to talk with him, go to seminars, was conducted by him playing 1st trumpet in his piece October, heard my professor argue with him concerning part writing on percussion, had a lesson with him where he showed me how he discovers his harmony while using the sustain pedal, and how he was, "Jealous of me that he could not write melodies so all of his stuff sounds the same." Lol. His words, honesty, hehe, not mine, but here are the dynamics which you are going to get in his Spitfire library in my humble opinion.


----------



## LamaRose (Jan 9, 2017)

I agree with Rodney and would expect a deeply sampled dynamic for each section, vowel, consonant, etc. After watching the live performance of Deep Field on youtube, Whitacre definitely appreciates the "field" of lower dynamics. It's an incredible performance of an equally incredible composition:


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Apr 16, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> Well don't I feel like an idiot now? Haha. I got you mixed up with Chris Harris. I guess I can be accused of "All Chris's sound alike to him" now. Oops. Sorry. I do enjoy your posts though.


All you need to do now is get me confused with someone and we can certainly call you 'that' guy


----------



## Musicam (Apr 17, 2017)

I cannot wait . I need this library.


----------



## tokatila (Apr 17, 2017)

Stop bumping this thread without real news.  Jizz in my pants for nothing, again.

(Oops, sorry for another "jizzers" out there for this unnecessary bump)


----------



## Musicam (Apr 17, 2017)

Yes, I need real news


----------



## DANIELE (Dec 27, 2017)

Sorry if I asking but I'm looking for a "complete" choir library.

I don't know so much about this library so do you think (from what you know) that this library would be a pre rendered syllabes libary or a more Word Builder oriented library?

Maybe this one could be the library I looking for but I don't know when it came out. I don't want to buy some other library right now a see this come out after a month, if I have to wait for a year or more then it's a different thing.


----------



## kimarnesen (Dec 27, 2017)

DANIELE said:


> Sorry if I asking but I'm looking for a "complete" choir library.
> 
> I don't know so much about this library so do you think (from what you know) that this library would be a pre rendered syllabes libary or a more Word Builder oriented library?
> 
> Maybe this one could be the library I looking for but I don't know when it came out. I don't want to buy some other library right now a see this come out after a month, if I have to wait for a year or more then it's a different thing.



There’s no information about this. They played one second from it in a video recently, a choir singing “oh” for one second. That’s all, and they were not finished recording it in November.


----------



## thereus (Dec 27, 2017)

kimarnesen said:


> There’s no information about this. They played one second from it in a video recently, a choir singing “oh” for one second. That’s all, and they were not finished recording it in November.



It’s taking a long time.


----------



## Tjur (Dec 27, 2017)

thereus said:


> It’s taking a long time.


And I'm pretty darn sure the result will be worth it...


----------



## Lassi Tani (Dec 27, 2017)

Here's a sneak peek of a recording session for their new choir:


----------



## Chris Porter (Dec 27, 2017)

sekkosiki said:


> Here's a sneak peek of a recording session for their new choir:



Hahaha! Oh man! It's better than I could have ever imagined.


----------



## mac (Dec 27, 2017)

sekkosiki said:


> Here's a sneak peek of a recording session for their new choir:




Hope to god that they include a true legato Christian patch.


----------



## Vastman (Dec 27, 2017)

sekkosiki said:


> Here's a sneak peek of a recording session for their new choir:




I'm stoked... just listen to the word building! Puts EW to shame! This IS the one we've been waiting for! 

Game changer...but I need a month to recover from my Xmas list!

Thanks for reviving this thread! Ohhhhh, we're soooooo close....


----------



## DANIELE (Dec 27, 2017)

kimarnesen said:


> There’s no information about this. They played one second from it in a video recently, a choir singing “oh” for one second. That’s all, and they were not finished recording it in November.



Well I think it is better to wait for it before taking a choice.

I hope they do a WB oriented library with legatos and staccatos and maybe some FX. Also I hope for a full dynamic range from ppp to FFF and a great playability (maybe a full vibrato controll too). Am I asking too much?


----------



## kimarnesen (Dec 27, 2017)

DANIELE said:


> Well I think it is better to wait for it before taking a choice.
> 
> I hope they do a WB oriented library with legatos and staccatos and maybe some FX. Also I hope for a full dynamic range from ppp to FFF and a great playability (maybe a full vibrato controll too). Am I asking too much?



I agree with everything except for the wordbuilder, which is in my opinion unmanageable. But rather lots of syllables. I also wish for SSSSAAAATTTTBBBB, soloists in each voice, microphone settings and panning for each singer. Yeah!


----------



## artomatic (Dec 27, 2017)

Epic! No AutoTune needed.


----------



## Casiquire (Dec 27, 2017)

I vote for a word builder also. Don't have to use it if you don't want to!


----------



## LamaRose (Dec 27, 2017)

kimarnesen said:


> I agree with everything except for the wordbuilder, which is in my opinion unmanageable. But rather lots of syllables. I also wish for SSSSAAAATTTTBBBB, soloists in each voice, microphone settings and panning for each singer. Yeah!



THIS!


----------



## DANIELE (Dec 27, 2017)

kimarnesen said:


> I agree with everything except for the wordbuilder, which is in my opinion unmanageable. But rather lots of syllables. I also wish for SSSSAAAATTTTBBBB, soloists in each voice, microphone settings and panning for each singer. Yeah!



Right, I forgot to mention this. Anyway with WB you can also set Ah and use only this one but if you want you can expand the use of it. I think that a wb that is also user friendly is possible.

If I don't have in mind a precise sentence usually I use an Ah and I add the syllabes later. In this way I can concentrate on music and not on lyrics.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Dec 27, 2017)

Is there actually any new news about this library? It was initially announced back in 2016.

I would imagine that adding a Word Builder would be a big task. I'm sure EW invested a lot of time and energy in doing theirs.

Other than that, the thought of an Eric Whitacre library initially seems exciting. But, I wonder if a composer/conductor of his stature is really the best person to get this sort of thing done. Doing a big sampled library for any instrument or ensemble is a huge undertaking, and the work is painstaking and detailed. I would think that you'd have to really like that type of job and challenge, and be mentally wired to do it. Might bore certain creative people to tears. A word builder library would be especially daunting. A typical performing conductor is thinking of the big picture. A sample library producer needs to think about microscopic detail.

The other thing that makes me wonder if this project is still in the works is that whenever more than one major sample library developer is releasing a similar library, you usually hear news about the other products about to pop. The market is getting very competitive, and not that many people are going to invest in more than one big ticket library of a similar nature in a given year. 

Maybe the Eric Whitacre project didn't work out, and the plug was pulled.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Dec 27, 2017)

I'd also wonder if putting out this library is a very good business move for Eric Whitacre. It could easily cheapen his brand if it made it too easy to produce the kinds of things I'm sure he'd like to charge lots of money to do. Scarcity is the key to having a valuable product and a long career. If everybody in the world can easily parody your sound with a plug-in, it's not great for your career.

BTW, a really great example of that happening in the past is Take 6 doing all of those banks of samples for Spectrasonics. Personally, I loved having them (and still use them). But I think it really kind of made Take 6 a cliche, because a LOT of people were using those samples in all kinds of productions. And sure, the real Take 6 in their real recordings do amazing things with amazing nuance that you can't even dream of doing with the Spectrasonics samples. But, the samples made a big aspect of their sound (and some of their go-to gimmicks) available for use (and over-use) around the world. That wears the effect out. Plus, although I'm sure they were paid for doing the library, they definitely were not paid for the multitude of appearances made in commercial music using those samples. I remember interacting with advertising clients about this when submitting demos. The client would say: "Hey, that really sounds like Take 6." And I could respond: "It is Take 6! And, it's a sample bank, so you don't have to pay them!"

I'd love to have the Eric Whitacre library, and I'll be standing in line if it's released. But, I'll be thinking he made a huge mistake.

Also, I don't have time to reread all the comments on this right now, but did anyone notice that the fact that Eric Whitacre's initials, "EW," are the same as "East West" which will be his library's biggest competitor?


----------



## 5Lives (Dec 27, 2017)

Rihanna’s Umbrella was made using an Apple Loop. Don’t think Rihanna or her producers have been out of work since then. The tools do not make the artist.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Dec 27, 2017)

5Lives said:


> Rihanna’s Umbrella was made using an Apple Loop. Don’t think Rihanna or her producers have been out of work since then. The tools do not make the artist.



Maybe, but you can sure overexpose a sound. And, keep in mind that Eric Whitacre's choir just stands there and sings. Once they're competing with their own sample library, they may all have to learn to dance, get fancy outfits, high-tech light show, video, etc. 

Think of all the latin (or faux latin) choir singing we now hear in pumped up movie and trailer music. Many years ago, when I first heard something like that in Carl Orff's "Carmina Burana," it really caught my attention. Now, it's just another one of those overused cliches, like enormous percussion sounds in movie trailers. It's used everywhere, so it's not unique. If the Eric Whitacre library gets released, brace yourself for hearing lush, dense choral sounds with a lot of hairpins everywhere. There are already plenty of libraries you can use to do that, but this will push the exposure of that sound up another notch. It's certainly a nice sound, but like anything, you notice it more and appreciate it more when it's scarce.


----------



## mickeyl (Dec 27, 2017)

5Lives said:


> The tools do not make the artist.



WORD!


----------



## agarner32 (Dec 27, 2017)

I seriously doubt a sample library is going to have a negative impact on Eric Whitacre's career any more than Embertone's JB violin will impact Joshua Bell's career. If anything it may have a positive impact.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Dec 27, 2017)

agarner32 said:


> I seriously doubt a sample library is going to have a negative impact on Eric Whitacre's career any more than Embertone's JB violin will impact Joshua Bell's career. If anything it may have a positive impact.



Well, we'll see. He's probably set for life. But, the public does grow tired of a certain sound at some point, and wants to move on to the next new thing. This might hasten that process. It'll certainly have an affect on the employment of other professional choirs. And to an extent, I suppose that's going to happen, anyway. Somebody is going to do it (in fact 8Dio, EW and others have already done it). It would be interesting to know what Take 6 thinks the long-term impact of its Spectrasonics library has been on them. For a time, you were hearing all of those gorgeously in-tune harmonies everywhere, and they weren't making any additional revenue from all of those appearances.

I really do think that the existence of an Eric Whitacre library will mean we'll be hearing the Eric Whitacre sound everywhere (I'll certainly buy it, and use it copiously, myself). As the say, familiarity breeds contempt. And if not contempt, maybe just indifference. Think of all the commercials you see these days that have some kind of cute, pizzicato orchestra underscore to them. That sound is everywhere. Pizzicato samples are pretty easy to do. Most string libraries have very usable ones, and better libraries sound excellent. But, it's a type of music that you just kind of ignore these days (I do). If pizzicato samples weren't available, do you think we'd be hearing them 24/7/365? What if every spot or video that wanted that sound had to hire a composer, orchestrator, copyist, conductor, recording studio, and a dozen or two union string players? I think we'd be hearing a lot less of it, and when we heard it, we might pay a little more attention.

And again, Eric Whitacre can't stop this happening, because other sample content companies are doing it, too. But, putting his brand on it (and especially if it's really good) will hasten its overuse. And I will be one of the people buying it, and overusing it. 

There's a reason Coca Cola and KFC keep their recipes secret.


----------



## agarner32 (Dec 27, 2017)

Lee, you make some great points. I just don't think a sample library will negatively impact his career, but what do I know? If you look at his schedule, he's pretty busy with guest speaking and conducting and I'm guessing he gets commissions. His music is huge in the education system. I teach college music theory/composition, so I'm not in the band/choral world, but I see his music all the time at our festivals. I would think most of his earnings come from live performance, commissions and selling charts.

I'm not familiar with his choral music so I don't have the answer to this question. Do his choirs sound unique in terms of the sound or is it his composing/arranging style that makes him sound unique? I'd think the latter. If that's the case then a library with his name would be just another well sampled library and could sound like Arvo Part, Mozart, Brahms, etc. Again, perhaps I'm wrong on all this because I'm not a choral guy. Either way, you've got me listening to his music more and that's a good thing all around.

Hopefully all the college choral directors won't replace their live performances with a laptop of Whitacre's sampled library.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Dec 27, 2017)

agarner32 said:


> Lee, you make some great points. I just don't think a sample library will negatively impact his career, but what do I know? If you look at his schedule, he's pretty busy with guest speaking and conducting and I'm guessing he gets commissions. His music is huge in the education system. I teach college music theory/composition, so I'm not in the band/choral world, but I see his music all the time at our festivals. I would think most of his earnings come from live performance, commissions and selling charts.
> 
> I'm not familiar with his choral music so I don't have the answer to this question. Do his choirs sound unique in terms of the sound or is it his composing/arranging style that makes him sound unique? I'd think the latter. If that's the case then a library with his name would be just another well sampled library and could sound like Arvo Part, Mozart, Brahms, etc. Again, perhaps I'm wrong on all this because I'm not a choral guy. Either way, you've got me listening to his music more and that's a good thing all around.
> 
> Hopefully all the college choral directors won't replace their live performances with a laptop of Whitacre's sampled library.



I think it's a bit of both. Certainly his composing, but also the superb quality of his ensemble. I do think, though, that other talented composers, after absorbing his works, can emulate the style (especially if they can load up his "instrument" on their DAWs). 

But it will be interesting to see, if this library comes out, if it will be easy to recognize that it is, in fact, his group, and not just some generically good sounding choir. There are some instrument sample libraries out by famous performers, but I think when used in a composition, they don't immediately suggest who's playing. But the Spectrasonics Take 6 samples (in Omnisphere now, but no longer identified as Take 6) DO sound like Take 6. If used well in a tune, a casual listener might think it actually was Take 6 performing on the song (and they are, but they aren't). That library, though, came out in earlier days of sample libraries. If I remember correctly, it started out as a hardware ROM plug-in for the Kurzweil 2000. Then, it later found its way into Omnisphere. When it first came out, there were articles about Take 6 doing this, so everyone knew (and you'd know just by listening). But now, I believe the identity is scrubbed off. One listen, though, and you know it's Take 6.

Are there many other internationally known and recognizable (just from the sound) vocal ensembles or soloists that have sample library products out? Seems to me, famous performers that would be recognized would just want to avoid doing this. Diluting the value of your sound by making it ubiquitous in the media is one thing, but what I would think would be even more worrisome would be having your recognizable sound and personality tied to things you don't agree with or support (politics, products, X-rated movies, etc.). What Eric Whitacre is essentially agreeing to here, is allowing people to purchase a specified quantity of his distinct essence and artistry for a flat fee, with essentially no controls, and use it indefinitely, however they wish. Has he really thought this through?


----------



## Kony (Dec 27, 2017)

There are a lot of guitarists out there who can play Jimi Hendrix tunes very well - but none of them sound like Jimi Hendrix....


----------



## Graham Keitch (Dec 27, 2017)

Guys, you're making it sound as if Eric Whitaker's music and choir has an unique trademark sound.It doesn't! It's simply the sound of pure voices you will hear with most UK and European chamber choirs - and increasingly, in the States too these days. It's neither cinematic nor Hollywood so it should be more easy to sample than a highly expressive vibrato choir. I'm sure it's within Spitfire's capability to produce a great library - and I hope they do!

A Whitacre library won't be a threat to the man himself or his choir unless it's in the hands of someone amazing who can compose beautiful modern choral music. 'nuf said


----------



## Lee Blaske (Dec 27, 2017)

Graham Keitch said:


> A Whitacre library won't be a threat to the man himself or his choir unless it's in the hands of someone amazing who can compose beautiful modern choral music. 'nuf said



But the product still has his identity. It would be interesting to know if the EULA would have language forbidding identifying the ensemble in any credits. But just in general, you really don't see any standing organizations putting out sample libraries identifying the organization. Certainly, union stipulations would enter into it, but even if there were no union restrictions, I really doubt you ever see, say, a "New York Philharmonic" sample library. They just wouldn't want to lose control of their brand that way.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Dec 27, 2017)

Kony said:


> There are a lot of guitarists out there who can play Jimi Hendrix tunes very well - but none of them sound like Jimi Hendrix....



But what if you had a sample library that was Jimi Hendrix?


----------



## Lee Blaske (Dec 27, 2017)

FWIW, here's a link to the "legacy" Take 6 library for Kurzweil, actually identified and branded as Take 6. I'm 99.9% sure that's the same jazz vocals content in Omnisphere today, but scrubbed of the Take 6 branding and identity. I bet they would not do a similar library like that today...

http://kurzweil.com/accessory/sound_library_-_take_6_/audio/


----------



## VinRice (Dec 27, 2017)

What a load of nonsense in this thread.

The library has never been 'announced', just leaked, and no timeline has ever been offered or in fact any information at all. Big libraries take time. One would assume 2018 but could just as easily be 2019. Spitfire have about 5 libraries in development at the moment. There is nothing to remotely suggest and nor does it seem remotely likely that it has been abandoned.

Eric's sound is his arrangements. A sample library with his name attached is largely a piece of inspired marketing from both Spitfire and Eric. His involvement will have been a number of days of recording at Air and no doubt final approval. The rest will have been achieved by the elves at Spitfire. It will make him money and it will increase the demand for his services. To suggest otherwise is naive.

It will probably be awesome and I will probably buy it.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Dec 27, 2017)

VinRice said:


> What a load of nonsense in this thread.
> 
> The library has never been 'announced', just leaked



You consider this video a leak, and not an announcement?


----------



## Lee Blaske (Dec 27, 2017)

BTW, another story regarding why internationally known artists (like Take 6 and others) regretted branding products with their identity... Anyone remember the early sample library put out by Spectrasonics titled "Bashiri Johnson - Supreme Beats"? This was quite some time ago. Anyway, in that product, the EULA from Spectrasonics specified that you could use the product in any of your productions, BUT, the EULA stipulated that the product and Bashiri Johnson (a famous percussionist, for anyone not familiar with him) MUST be specifically listed in the album credits. That's why, if you go to AllMusic or WikiPedia (which taps into AllMusic records), you will see that Bashiri Johnson has a credit for playing on my "Barnyard Christmas" CD (a quick and cheap little project with singing sampled animals back in the day). The ALLMusic software just sucked it in. Bashiri Johnson was never in my studio performing on my novelty record. I just did what they asked and he got tagged with it. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashiri_Johnson


----------



## agarner32 (Dec 27, 2017)

Graham Keitch said:


> A Whitacre library won't be a threat to the man himself or his choir unless it's in the hands of someone amazing who can compose beautiful modern choral music. 'nuf said


Totally agree which was what my origianl point was. You said it perfectly.


----------



## Kony (Dec 27, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> But what if you had a sample library that was Jimi Hendrix?


I think the difference is in the human emotion/input - so there could never be a Jimi Hendrix library IMO


----------



## Casiquire (Dec 27, 2017)

A lot of people in this thread seem to be under the impression that the most unique feature of Eric's sound is pure tone singing and minimalistic expression, and not his unusual sense of harmony. I don't mean to sound backhanded by saying this, though of course it should be obvious, but the realization that writing well is more important than chasing a sound is a key part of being a good composer.


----------



## kimarnesen (Dec 28, 2017)

No matter who creates a sample library and how good it is, no one can suddenly begin writing (good) music in a certain style, and become the next Whitacre, Zimmer or who else.

As a choral composer myself I sometimes use choir libraries for inspiration, but most often just use the piano. They are all so limited compared to what a real choir can do, and I prefer not hearing my music with a choir library because I might begin to think the music is horrible. So piano and imagination is still much much better. After all, choral music is eventually printed on paper.

Maybe for composers or young people who want to learn writing for choir, a library could be a tool for learning how things sound for voices, but they should be careful because it will restrict you very much in what you can do and thus not be good for compositional technique improvement.

Also, no choir library will ever be as good as a real choir, no matter how good the choir is, so no choirs should worry. Except for some “ohs and ahs” and quasi Latin words in soundtracks, a choir library will never be heard on radio, iTunes or live performance singing a cappella music or Mozart’s Requiem.

And no one will become the composer who created it, you simply just get some sounds from it  Use it for what it’s worth. And honestly, who wants to become the next Mozart, Zimmer or Whitacre? You should become YOU.


----------



## Pier (Dec 28, 2017)

VinRice said:


> Spitfire have about 5 libraries in development at the moment.



Can you elaborate on this?


----------



## JanR (Dec 28, 2017)

VinRice said:


> The library has never been 'announced', just leaked, and no timeline has ever been offered or in fact any information at all



Christian & Paul gave an update about the choir library development on the Facebook live Q&A on 23rd of November 2017: (starts @ 21:52)


----------



## DANIELE (Feb 6, 2018)

I received an email where they say they have an announcement for February 28, 2018.


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 6, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> I received an email where they say they have an announcement for February 28, 2018.



Same here, I wonder if it's their Choirs, or something else.


----------



## DANIELE (Feb 28, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> Same here, I wonder if it's their Choirs, or something else.



Lol, I received another e-mail with the subject "*It's not the choir*" for the event of today february 28.


----------



## J-M (Feb 28, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> Lol, I received another e-mail with the subject "*It's not the choir*" for the event of today february 28.



Yeah, noticed that too. Wonder what it is then...


----------



## Solamnia (Feb 28, 2018)

My guess would be the "Typhon" which they mentioned in the Q&A last November. A new orchestral library with dryer recordings.


----------



## DANIELE (Feb 28, 2018)

MrLinssi said:


> Yeah, noticed that too. Wonder what it is then...



I think it is the event at AIR studios.


----------



## blougui (Feb 28, 2018)

Solamnia said:


> My guess would be the "Typhon" which they mentioned in the Q&A last November. A new orchestral library with dryer recordings.


Why not ? But it would be surprising to announce and show a dryer library in AIR where they happen to have produced all their wet samples, wouldn't it ?


----------



## Michael Antrum (Feb 28, 2018)

I wonder if it will be an AIR drier library....


I’ll get my coat......


----------



## Solamnia (Feb 28, 2018)

Well well....Hans Zimmer strings.


----------



## ruben_vale (Feb 28, 2018)

Finally a spitfire library I don't need.. 
Still waiting for the choir while desperately trying to make 8dio's insolidus sound decent...

Very cool of SA to keep their donation scheme now with a new format.


----------



## quantum7 (Feb 28, 2018)

Are they really going to do a choir, or are people just wishing for this? I love most of my choirs, but I'm still hoping for the ultimate sampled choir to appear one day....not another bombastic one, but something very intimate sounding.


----------



## Garry (Feb 28, 2018)

quantum7 said:


> Are they really going to do a choir, or are people just wishing for this? I love most of my choirs, but I'm still hoping for the ultimate sampled choir to appear one day....not another bombastic one, but something very intimate sounding.



I know this isn't an easy question, because the answer depends on what you're using it for, but I'll ask anyway: if you were going to choose only ONE of your choir libraries to keep, which would it be?

I don't yet have a choir library (not a real one anyway - Kontakt Factory definitely doesn't count!), and am looking to buy one. I'm leaning towards Dominus, not because there's a particular type of music I think it fits best, but it seems to me to be the most authentic, based on the demos I've heard. But I'd be interested to hear from those who have this and other choir libraries.

I'm also torn as to whether to continue to wait for Spitfire's collaboration with Eric Whitacre to be released (can't see this coming out now until at least June, so as to not overshadow the HZ Strings they just released), or if Dominus is that good, I should not wait. Thoughts?


----------



## DANIELE (Mar 1, 2018)

quantum7 said:


> Are they really going to do a choir, or are people just wishing for this? I love most of my choirs, but I'm still hoping for the ultimate sampled choir to appear one day....not another bombastic one, but something very intimate sounding.



They are going to release a choir for real, it is not a wish.

Anyway I don't think it will be the ultimate choir library (I hope that too) because it is very difficult to cover every aspect of a choir. Unless you take many years of work and you do a 500 GB library.

You are looking for an intimate choir library look at Fluffyaudio - Dominus Choir. A very good libary.



Garry said:


> I know this isn't an easy question, because the answer depends on what you're using it for, but I'll ask anyway: if you were going to choose only ONE of your choir libraries to keep, which would it be?
> 
> I don't yet have a choir library (not a real one anyway - Kontakt Factory definitely doesn't count!), and am looking to buy one. I'm leaning towards Dominus, not because there's a particular type of music I think it fits best, but it seems to me to be the most authentic, based on the demos I've heard. But I'd be interested to hear from those who have this and other choir libraries.
> 
> I'm also torn as to whether to continue to wait for Spitfire's collaboration with Eric Whitacre to be released (can't see this coming out now until at least June, so as to not overshadow the HZ Strings they just released), or if Dominus is that good, I should not wait. Thoughts?



Dominus it is a great libary but we don't know what will be the goal of this library. For me it is better to wait, maybe you will end buying both Dominus and Spitfire Choir (maybe I'll do it :D).


----------



## Garry (Mar 1, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> They are going to release a choir for real, it is not a wish.
> 
> Anyway I don't think it will be the ultimate choir library (I hope that too) because it is very difficult to cover every aspect of a choir. Unless you take many years of work and you do a 500 GB library.
> 
> ...



Yes, I think you're right. I've decided to wait. I fully expect the Spitfire choir library to be amazing: Eric Whitacre seems to be the type to have obsessive attention to detail and quality, and fully embrace the value and uniqueness of technology in music (such as his virtual choirs - truly groundbreaking and wonderful!). Combine this with the very similar qualities from Spitfire, and this has to be an incredible combination. I have to wait!


----------



## rlundv (Mar 18, 2018)

Some more info on the upcoming choir-library! :O


----------



## blougui (Mar 18, 2018)

Info is its delayed with no ETA


----------



## PeterN (Mar 18, 2018)

Hopefully Spitfire will not produce a choir library. Enough of them choir libraries out there already! Even Bulgarian choir - thats the end station of the choir library development.

Since Spitfire is in a manic phase - in a good way most of the time - lets hope they go for something else than some boring English church choir! When the manic phase is over, they can record those depressing English choir voices.


----------



## Garry (Mar 18, 2018)

PeterN said:


> Hopefully Spitfire will not produce a choir library. Enough of them choir libraries out there already! Even Bulgarian choir - thats the end station of the choir library development.
> 
> Since Spitfire is in a manic phase - in a good way most of the time - lets hope they go for something else than some boring English church choir!



Couldn’t disagree with this more. Voice is the one instrument that, despite all the libraries we have available, still sounds fake and can be highlighted in a mix as having been synthesized. There are some notable exceptions, such as Dominus, but this doesn’t have a word-builder. Spitfire and Whitacre is the perfect combination to innovate here.


----------



## noises on (Mar 18, 2018)

Of course we all think that we are the CEO of Spitfire Audio. Do you not feel apprehensive handing over to the "suits" a project that has gone from its embryonic phase to the position in the industry it now finds itself?


----------



## Kony (Mar 18, 2018)

Garry said:


> There are some notable exceptions, such as Dominus, but this doesn’t have a word-builder


Not sure about that


----------



## Garry (Mar 18, 2018)

Kony said:


> Not sure about that



Not sure about what - that it doesn’t have a word builder (it does, but rudimentary, not like Hollywood choirs for example), or that it’s an exception?


----------



## ptram (Mar 18, 2018)

quantum7 said:


> not another bombastic one, but something very intimate sounding.


I expect something like Tundra Voices. Only ppp, pp and p layers will be recorded.

Paolo


----------



## rocking.xmas.man (Mar 22, 2018)

got a mail from spitfire today.
April 25 there'll be an Event in LA. Eric Whitacre lives there. Also there's a light bulb in the @Picture.
@Spitfire Team:
...Lux (Aurumque) coming April 25?


----------



## Niah2 (Mar 22, 2018)

It's not what you think


----------



## quantum7 (Mar 22, 2018)

Garry said:


> I know this isn't an easy question, because the answer depends on what you're using it for, but I'll ask anyway: if you were going to choose only ONE of your choir libraries to keep, which would it be?



Sorry that I didn’t notice your question until now. I couldn’t choose just one, but out of the dozen or so choir libraries I own, I would choose Insolidus, Dominus Choir, and all of my Virharmonic choirs. I could probably make do for the rest my life with those in regards to the type of music I typically write.... but thank God I don’t have to make a choice like that. There are no perfect choir libraries, so if you want to accomplish as much as possible, you are unfortunately forced to own quite a few different libraries.


----------



## Geoff Grace (Mar 22, 2018)

rocking.xmas.man said:


> got a mail from spitfire today.
> April 25 there'll be an Event in LA. Eric Whitacre lives there. Also there's a light bulb in the @Picture.
> @Spitfire Team:
> ...Lux (Aurumque) coming April 25?


I got that email too. I don't know what's going to happen at the downtown event, but I know what _isn't_ going to happen: SNOW!

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Kony (Mar 23, 2018)

Garry said:


> Not sure about what - that it doesn’t have a word builder (it does, but rudimentary, not like Hollywood choirs for example), or that it’s an exception?


Both


----------



## Chris Porter (Oct 25, 2018)

I can’t believe I started this thread almost two years ago. But it’s finally out!

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/eric-whitacre-choir/


----------



## jacobthestupendous (Oct 25, 2018)

I'm pretty sure I gave them the idea with this post.


----------



## germancomponist (Oct 25, 2018)

Sounds amazing ....


----------



## DANIELE (Oct 25, 2018)

I can't watch demos where I am now but...only oohs, aahs and mms?


----------



## mickeyl (Oct 25, 2018)

Sounds great, but to be honest, not what I was expecting. I‘d love to have it, but it‘s very big and expensive. I really wish we could customize the microphone positions, I’d get rid of all but CTA.


----------



## DANIELE (Nov 5, 2018)

Ok, I watched the walktrought but honestly I was expecting something better, I'm not saying that it is not a good libarry but I think they didn't do anything really new. I think I'll pass this one.
Dominus choirs is a good antagonist to this I think.


----------

