# Midi Controller or Digital Piano or Stage Piano for Learning to Play



## HBIII (Aug 30, 2021)

Hi all,

Recently I have been brushing up on my music theory and I have come to the realization that learning to actually play the keyboard well would really help speed up my learning and composing, so I have decided to do it. I have quite a few hardware synths, but the biggest keyboard they have is 49 keys (synth action) which is not cutting it for serious learning.

So I was looking at getting a good 88-key midi controller. However, after reading a lot of posts in the forums here it looks like maybe there are not any good options. People don't like the action of the Arturia Keylab 88 mkII and it seems to also have a lot of issues with consistent velocity etc., and the NI Komplete Kontrol S88 mkII seems no better. The action of the Studiologic SL88 Grand seems more well liked but I have also read a ton of QC complaints about it.

Since I have a lot of hardware synths and VSTs I would have loved a keyboard controller I could use with them, but I don't want to get anything that is just going to fall apart or give me headaches. So I was starting to think about maybe getting a digital or stage piano that I could learn and compose on instead. It would also be nice to just sit down and play and not have to turn on the studio and boot up the computer to do it sometimes. However, I would love something with at least a pitch and mod wheel and aftertouch. I looked at the Roland RD-88 and it is close, but no aftertouch...

Is there anything out there for me? I would love to hear your all recommendations, I would really like to keep the budget below $1500, but if I really really had to I could go a bit higher than $2000.

Thanks so much!


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## SupremeFist (Aug 31, 2021)

Digital piano all the way. If you want to learn to play piano better, don't compromise on the key action just to get a modwheel etc; a lot of people just use a separate mini controller (like a nanostudio and/or m32) for that. 

The Roland FP10 is an excellent budget choice, and is compact enough to be used as a midi controller over USB (as I do); the more expensive ones of the same range are also supposed to be excellent but you don't actually get a better action without paying substantially more. 

In terms of the chunkier "furniture"-sized digital pianos, I only like the Kawais (I have a CA-97), but tastes differ!


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## HBIII (Aug 31, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Digital piano all the way. If you want to learn to play piano better, don't compromise on the key action just to get a modwheel etc; a lot of people just use a separate mini controller (like a nanostudio and/or m32) for that.
> 
> The Roland FP10 is an excellent budget choice, and is compact enough to be used as a midi controller over USB (as I do); the more expensive ones of the same range are also supposed to be excellent but you don't actually get a better action without paying substantially more.
> 
> In terms of the chunkier "furniture"-sized digital pianos, I only like the Kawais (I have a CA-97), but tastes differ!


Thanks so much for your reply! This has been a really hard choice for me so all input is really appreciated. I never thought I would have an actual digital piano in my synth studio lol.

The Kawai es920 is in my budget... The action would be significantly better but I am wondering about the sounds. I am wondering how good digital piano sounds compare to VST instruments I could load up on my computer. The price difference might not be worth it if, when I was recording, I would still just load up the same pianos in my daw whether I was using a fp10 or a es920. But if the more expensive digital pianos offer something more in the sound department than the pianos in my daw then the price difference might be worth it for the better action quality and better sounds to use in recordings...


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## SupremeFist (Aug 31, 2021)

For recording, good sample libraries are better than the built-in sounds of any digital piano (that I know of!). But if your controller has a great action the sample library will sound better.


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## Stringtree (Aug 31, 2021)

I'm with @SupremeFist with respect to a digital piano. Since the piano (the piece of furniture) has been a thing for a long time, your journey will eventually take you to . . . I dunno. I hope you find all kinds of joy. It might be a good idea to start with the thing that is most like a piano in its feel and response.

Many synth or budget keybeds are compromises. As a piano player, I can approach them as such. But I'd never want to learn on a squishy and creaky thing like a Nord Electro that's meant to feel more like a B3 (waterfall) keyboard. 

Your musical tastes will guide you, but if you want to "play a piano," hammer action is a way to train your touch and your brain. Many MIDI controllers don't have this ability to connect you to some beautiful aspects of the instrument.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 31, 2021)

HBIII said:


> But if the more expensive digital pianos offer something more in the sound department than the pianos in my daw then the price difference might be worth it for the better action quality and better sounds to use in recordings...


My CA97 sounds very very nice "in the room" because it has like 9 speakers plus a resonating soundboard. But just taking the audio out into the DAW? It's not as good as a premium sample library (I've tried): it just doesn't have the gigs of storage, CPU speed, etc.... So Roland FP10 plus a VSL piano (eg) will sound better recorded than a top-of-the-range digital piano. Hence, all you really want to be considering is the action. (The built-in sound of even the Roland FP10 is perfectly acceptable over headphones for practising.)


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## HBIII (Aug 31, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> My CA97 sounds very very nice "in the room" because it has like 9 speakers plus a resonating soundboard. But just taking the audio out into the DAW? It's not as good as a premium sample library (I've tried): it just doesn't have the gigs of storage, CPU speed, etc.... So Roland FP10 plus a VSL piano (eg) will sound better recorded than a top-of-the-range digital piano. Hence, all you really want to be considering is the action. (The built-in sound of even the Roland FP10 is perfectly acceptable over headphones for practising.)


OK, I think I am going to be following your advice ( maybe  ). Do you have any recommendations for the best actions for under $2000? I imagine since I may also use it for controlling synths and VST instruments that a lighter action would be preferable to something really heavy.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 31, 2021)

HBIII said:


> OK, I think I am going to be following your advice ( maybe  ). Do you have any recommendations for the best actions for under $2000? I imagine since I may also use it for controlling synths and VST instruments that a lighter action would be preferable to something really heavy.


Other users will need to chime in if you want something more premium: the next step up in terms of action alone from the Roland FP10, eg, is the FP90X, which I'm sure is great but I've never tried it. And other manufacturers are available.... 

Remember though that if you want to get better at playing piano "properly" you absolutely don't want any action that is less "heavy" than a properly graded and weighted hammer action. That's why I also use a Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol m32 for synth parts (and knobs etc)...


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## Tim_Wells (Aug 31, 2021)

I also agree with SupremeFist, digital piano is the best option (IMO). 

I was similar to you in that I wanted to get proficient as a piano/keyboard player because it's the best way to get midi data into a DAW. It was definitely a struggle at first (life long guitarist), but I'm so glad I stayed at it. I'm also very glad I had a digital piano. In my case, and old Yamaha S80. It's a workhorse with decent action and okay sounds. Great for practicing.

You might want to consider something with a pitch wheel and modulation wheel. It comes in very handy for DAW stuff. As for me, I'll probably go for another Yamaha, just because they are so dependable.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 31, 2021)

HBIII said:


> I looked at the Roland RD-88 and it is close, but no aftertouch...


I may be wrong but I don't think any fully weighted hammer-action controller has aftertouch? In which case you might enjoy the RD-88 for a great piano action plus pitch and mod wheels, and then add something like an Arturia Keystep on the desk for aftertouch and playing synths with a light action?


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## HBIII (Aug 31, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I may be wrong but I don't think any fully weighted hammer-action controller has aftertouch? In which case you might enjoy the RD-88 for a great piano action plus pitch and mod wheels, and then add something like an Arturia Keystep on the desk for aftertouch and playing synths with a light action?


I was thinking about this, but it does not have a regular midi in port for some reason, so if I wanted to control or sequence it with hardware I would be out of luck (I have a lot of hardware sequencers and controllers etc. and don't usually use my computer for much if I don't have to). It also only transmits and receives 3 midi channels instead of 16. It's like they purposefully limited it to not fit that well into a studio setup.


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## Jazzaria (Aug 31, 2021)

HBIII said:


> The Kawai es920 is in my budget... The action would be significantly better but I am wondering about the sounds.


To my ears I've always liked the Kawai digital pianos (to my fingers as well). They're usually a bit less bright/cutting than Yamaha, and IMO more natural sounding than Roland. Kawai samples their own grand pianos, and though I'm sure it's not as many mega-turbo-giga-quads as the latest greatest sample library, it's pretty darn good.


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## Jazzaria (Aug 31, 2021)

HBIII said:


> However, I would love something with at least a pitch and mod wheel and aftertouch.


If the goal is learning, I'd drop aftertouch - it's fun, but has always been an unnatural "extra" for pianos and is often implemented inconsistently (I'd argue it's actually best implemented in non-hammer actions - but as others have said, for learning you definitely want hammer). Pitch/mod wheel are less intrusive, but also not part of traditional technique - from a learning perspective I don't think you'd really miss them, but at least they won't get in the way.

I totally get wanting One Board To Rule Them All - but different options exist for good reasons, and especially for learning aftertouch is just something that will likely get in the way. If you want expression, get a board with enough auxiliary pedal inputs, and/or accept that you'll probably want to buy some other gadget in a year or two


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## mybadmemory (Aug 31, 2021)

Definitely a digital piano for learning. Nothing beats just being able to turn it on and play without computers and daws and plugins. Playing without all of that is truly liberating and has you playing at times where you otherwise never would. Which makes you learn so much faster.


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## HBIII (Sep 1, 2021)

Well thanks so much for your input everyone. I decided I am going to go the digital piano route with a kawai es920. Now I just have to find one in stock somewhere, yikes!


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## SupremeFist (Sep 1, 2021)

HBIII said:


> Well thanks so much for your input everyone. I decided I am going to go the digital piano route with a kawai es920. Now I just have to find one in stock somewhere, yikes!


Looks like a great choice, good luck with it!


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## Tim_Wells (Sep 1, 2021)

Good choice! I think my dream keyboard would be the Kawai mp11se, if could get my-cheap-self to release the cash.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 1, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> Good choice! I think my dream keyboard would be the Kawai mp11se, if could get my-cheap-self to release the cash.


Those premium Kawai actions are beautiful, I can attest.


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## Marcus Millfield (Sep 9, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Those premium Kawai actions are beautiful, I can attest.


Me too. When I was looking for an instrument when I started playing piano I tried a lot of instruments and ended with the MP11SE. Never regretted that investment, as it made the transition between my teachers acoustic upright and home a lot easier and helped build my stamina, due to the realistic hammer action. It helps that it sounds good too


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