# MIDI take-down?



## sbkp (Sep 14, 2011)

Uh... What is a MIDI take-down? I'm in talks to get a gig working on scores for an upcoming orchestra performance. And the composer just told me I'd be doing MIDI take-downs from his DP projects (actually MIDI + mp3 + notes).

So... I need a glossary. What is he telling me?

Thanks,
Stefan


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## JT (Sep 14, 2011)

You're going to get a midi file that you open in a notation program and a mp3 file. When you open that midi file in notation, it will look nothing like the what the players need to read. You need to listen the the mp3 and edit that data to make it into a suitable score. 

You need to add dynamics, slurs, hairpin crescendos, articulations, etc.... Depending on how accurate the midi file is, you might get generic string tracks, or string highs and lows. If that's the case, you'll need to distribute the notes appropriately across the section.

My advice, trust your ears more than your eyes. What musicians read from isn't exactly the same rhythmically what a computer produces. For example, 4 short notes in a measure. The midi might be quantized to 16th notes. The notation file might display this as 16th note, dotted 8th rest, 16th note, dotted 8th rest, etc.... But you wouldn't give that to musicians to play. Depending on the context, you might need to change that into 4 quarter notes with staccatos. Triplets can look real funky when coming from midi, change them into normal easy to read triplets. 

Hope this helps,
JT


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## José Herring (Sep 14, 2011)

It's a tough job that I wouldn't wish on anybody. Good luck.

Jose


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## Daryl (Sep 14, 2011)

Yeah, it's basically doing the orchestrations. Just watch out for cues that the composer decided to play without click. They are always fun.....!

D


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## sbkp (Sep 14, 2011)

josejherring @ Wed Sep 14 said:


> It's a tough job that I wouldn't wish on anybody. Good luck.



:shock: 

Well, I get a crack at one short segment to see what I'm up against before deciding to take the gig. I'll make sure it's worth my while.

I guess it sounds mostly like copying, but to the degree that the original needs doctoring (effects patches, unrealistic parts, for example) it's orchestration. Not exactly how the job was originally pitched to me by the orchestra director. The original description of the job was orchestration with some arranging. That sounded far more interesting.

Thanks, all!


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## Daryl (Sep 14, 2011)

sbkp @ Wed Sep 14 said:


> josejherring @ Wed Sep 14 said:
> 
> 
> > It's a tough job that I wouldn't wish on anybody. Good luck.
> ...


Don't worry, it won't be anything like copying, and for goodness sake don't tell the director that it's only copying, or you'll find the fee drastically reduced. :wink: 

The big snag is that many composers who've never really had to deal with their sh*tty MIDI files have no real idea what goes into making a score that will sound good, so it is easy for them to dismiss the work that you do. Unfortunately most of them only learn when they attempt to do the job themselves, and fail dismally.

The other thing is that most composers who write using a sequencer are not thinking orchestrally. they are thinking layers, which means that to transcribe what they have played with any accuracy you would need a string section of around 300 players, just for starters. This is where the skill of the orchestrator comes in, because you have to know what's important and how to give the effect that the composer wants, even if it means adding, subtracting or just re-voicing things.

D


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## José Herring (Sep 14, 2011)

sbkp @ Wed Sep 14 said:


> josejherring @ Wed Sep 14 said:
> 
> 
> > It's a tough job that I wouldn't wish on anybody. Good luck.
> ...



The orchestrating and arranging part might be fun.

Just get an absolute rock solid idea of what you're up against. Remember there are wild notions out there of what's what these days. Midi transcribing is different than orchestrating and arranging and vastly different than music prep work. It's sort of all gotten rolled into one these days and many composer just expect that you'll take their midi files and magically transform them into full blown orchestral parts ready to go. That's a lot of work and needs to be compensated handsomely as you'll be doing the work of about 3 or 4 guys. And usually the last guy, the music prep guy, has a staff.


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## sbkp (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks for the additional input, Daryl and Jose.

This guy seems to be a real composer who is likely to know what he's doing. So I don't predict a nightmare scenario. But I'll find out in a couple of days when I get the first minute of music.

I like the "compensated handsomely part", but this is a community orchestra, so I imagine there isn't a lot of handsome in their bank account right now (and they're paying me, the composer isn't). That said, anyone want to ballpark this kind of work?


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## Daryl (Sep 14, 2011)

sbkp @ Wed Sep 14 said:


> Thanks for the additional input, Daryl and Jose.
> 
> This guy seems to be a real composer who is likely to know what he's doing. So I don't predict a nightmare scenario. But I'll find out in a couple of days when I get the first minute of music.
> 
> I like the "compensated handsomely part", but this is a community orchestra, so I imagine there isn't a lot of handsome in their bank account right now (and they're paying me, the composer isn't). That said, anyone want to ballpark this kind of work?


Well in British money it is usually around £50/page (calculated at 4 bars per page, no matter how many there actually are). However, these are properly compensated movies, so I couldn't speculate how other parts of the profession are paid. I guess you could always look up the Union minimums.

D


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## José Herring (Sep 14, 2011)

Yes. Go through the union and find out what the rates are. These kinds of gigs are kind of where the union is strongest. They'll usually have something that's pretty fair.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 14, 2011)

I've done a lot of this kind of work, in fact I first met Eastwestlurker when I farmed some of one of these projects out over 15 years ago. But I also did this for [Incredible Deceased Big Name Composer], so it's certainly not just amateur wankers who work this way.

There's nothing weird about this. You're taking down music and generating parts. It may involve clean-up, orchestration, or points in between.


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## JJP (Sep 14, 2011)

I do a lot of this work as an orchestrator. Note that on some projects there is somebody who does the takedown to create a sketch before it is sent to the orchestrator. If you are doing both these jobs, then make sure you are charging for both. Some orchestrators bill separately for the takedown. Other orchestrators just bump up their page rate (at least 50%) to cover the extra work of the takedown. It kinda' depends on the job and how to make it palatable to the client.

The orchestrator then sends the score to the copyists who create the parts for the orchestra and do the proofreading. Again, if you're doing this job make sure you're billing for it as well. Don't forget to include your costs for printing if you are delivering hard copies.


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## JJP (Sep 14, 2011)

One other thought...

A lot of people try to pass off orchestration as copying. This is often done
- to save money
- because somebody doesn't understand what orchestration is
- because a composer wants to be shown as an orchestrator to enhance his credibility, ego, pocketbook, whatever.

A couple of years ago I had to walk away from a gig because a composer wanted me to orchestrate from his sequencer files, but insisted he be credited on the score for orchestrating. I hated to say no, but there was no reason to do the job for bad money and then give the credit to someone else. His argument was that if my name was on the score as an orchestrator, classical people would think he didn't know how to write for orchestra. Unfortunately I had to tell him that someone else's misunderstanding wasn't reason for me to give away credit for my work.

If you're putting the notes on the score, you're the orchestrator. It has nothing to do with the detail of the materials the composer provides. If it's a case where it needs to be taken down from MIDI or audio and put in a form that an orchestra can play, that's orchestrating.

If the composer is not putting the notes on the score, the composer is not the orchestrator. Don't be afraid of making this clear if it helps you justify your fee. There is a professional skill to this work.


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## RiffWraith (Sep 14, 2011)

Daryl @ Thu Sep 15 said:


> The other thing is that most composers who write using a sequencer are not thinking orchestrally. they are thinking layers, which means that to transcribe what they have played with any accuracy you would need a string section of around 300 players...



Sounds like Zimmer :lol:


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