# NI Symphony Series - essential vs full differences



## Shredoverdrive (May 30, 2018)

Hi there,

I have Komplete Ultimate. I use quite often Symphony Series Strings and Percussion (which I bought separately) in their "Essentials" version. I have mixed feelings as regards the brass and I loathe the woodwinds.
I know about the differences between the essential and the full versions of the strings (mic positions and divisi) and I think I will buy them anyway but my question is for people who have used both versions of the complete suite : is there real, under the hood, improvement for the brass in the full version apart from more articulations and mic positions? What I really don't like about them is that I find they sound thin. The woodwinds are hopeless, in my opinion so I daren't even ask.
The difference for me is that I might only buy the strings upgrade for 149 dollars (summer of sound prices) instead of the full upgrade.

Thank you.


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## Shredoverdrive (May 30, 2018)

Bonus question : is is possible to completely kill the room on the full brass version with close mics settings?


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## fretti (May 30, 2018)

Towards the Essentials version of the Brass I have the same feelings as you...woodwinds I haven't really tried tbh.
Strings I really like and also consider to buy...though 149€ for only the strings or 299€ for all 4 in the full version I'm not sure if this wouldn't be the better thing for me (the latter one). Given the size difference between essentials (18 gb all) and the full (~160 gb afaik) it's probably very much a difference in no. of samples and articualtions (?). 
I think @ashtongleckman used the Brass in a video and said he really liked it, and i read from a few other people that they use it very much, so it seems the full version of the brass is a serious upgrade from the essentials version in K11U...
Hope that already helps a little, but actually in the same situation as you, so I really look forward to users experiences of the full Brass


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## Shredoverdrive (May 30, 2018)

fretti said:


> Strings I really like and also consider to buy...though 149€ for only the strings or 299€ for all 4 in the full version I'm not sure if this wouldn't be the better thing for me (the latter one).


Well I know but 149€ for a brass collection I might not use and a woodwinds collection I know I won't use is a bit pricey...
As regards your situation, if I'm not mistaken, you get the full percussion instrument as a bonus (whereas for me, it's only an upgrade from the essentials version I bought separately - since it's not in K11U). So the choice is a little easier for you I guess. The percussion suite is nice, BTW.


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## Michael Antrum (May 30, 2018)

Shredoverdrive said:


> Well I know but 149€ for a brass collection I might not use and a woodwinds collection I know I won't use is a bit pricey...
> As regards your situation, if I'm not mistaken, you get the full percussion instrument as a bonus (whereas for me, it's only an upgrade from the essentials version I bought separately - since it's not in K11U). So the choice is a little easier for you I guess. The percussion suite is nice, BTW.



Well I’ve just received a mail shot from NI - you can now upgrade from essentials to the pro version for £239 for ALL the libraries.....


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## Shredoverdrive (May 30, 2018)

mikeybabes said:


> Well I’ve just received a mail shot from NI - you can now upgrade from essentials to the pro version for £239 for ALL the libraries.....


Yes. 299 euros is £239. More or less. I think you have not read the whole thread.


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## fretti (May 30, 2018)

mikeybabes said:


> Well I’ve just received a mail shot from NI - you can now upgrade from essentials to the pro version for £239 for ALL the libraries.....


Yes, "otherwise"/normally it would be 599€ I think, for the whole upgrade or 299€ for a single instrument upgrade


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## sostenuto (May 30, 2018)

Can I trade-in KH_Diamond Symphony Orchestra ? 

_Of course, there are likely some who would say that would be a dumb trade ………… _


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## Alex Fraser (May 30, 2018)

£239 for the lot is a complete steal. There's a lot of music to be made there. The collection is a bit hit or miss, but some good sounds.
I could be wrong - but I think the (true) legatos for the instruments are limited to the full version. It's certainly the case for the strings anyway..


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## Shredoverdrive (May 30, 2018)

Alex Fraser said:


> £239 for the lot is a complete steal. There's a lot of music to be made there. The collection is a bit hit or miss, but some good sounds.
> I could be wrong - but I think the (true) legatos for the instruments are limited to the full version. It's certainly the case for the strings anyway..


239 pounds for the upgrade, not the whole collection from scratch. You're right for the legatos, though.


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## Shredoverdrive (May 30, 2018)

But the fact that it's cheap is not a reason to buy it if you have no use for it. Well, in my book anyway. Hence my original question.


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## Alex Fraser (May 30, 2018)

Shredoverdrive said:


> 239 pounds for the upgrade, not the whole collection from scratch. You're right for the legatos, though.


Of course. I think the upgrade is valid for Komplete users too.

Some perspective: The current Spitfire solution (orchestra collection + percussion) currently runs to about £1850. I love me some Spitfire (and it's obviously the better product) but if you're looking for a starter full orchestra - at the current upgrade price I think the NI stuff is a great bet.


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## Michael Antrum (May 30, 2018)

And do not forget that you can also resell it if you don't like it. NI are great that way. 

It's great value for money, but it is very wet, I think it is worth it for the percussion alone....


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## Eptesicus (May 30, 2018)

Quite tempted by this as I have ultimate already. £239 seems pretty cheap.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (May 30, 2018)

Shredoverdrive said:


> Bonus question : is is possible to completely kill the room on the full brass version with close mics settings?


Yes and no, pull the release slider all the way down when using the close microphone. It helps on the solo instruments, not so good on the ensembles, in my opinion. That's why I'm selling mine, can't work with the "dry" ensemble legatos.

Concerning the woodwinds. They are the only one I am missing, but I read in several reviews that the close microphones are still too reverberant, even more as on brass.

In the end, I decided to sell all of my Symphony Series products (in another thread), because I have better alternatives and I need the money. For me the strings are really, really nice with a lovely lush sound. But I have LASS, so I don't really need them anymore.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (May 30, 2018)

Shredoverdrive said:


> What I really don't like about them is that I find they sound thin.



I only have the full version, so can't compare. What do you mean with thin? The legatos are quite soft on purpose. The overall sound is, on the other hand, good.

Here is a legato video by Cory Pelizzari. He has several videos of the brass library. Maybe it's helpful. These videos made me buy it. Note: The patch names has changed over the time. There is no "lyrical" in the instruments anymore.


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## PSKLN (May 30, 2018)

A young lad named Daniel James also found good use for the NI Symphony Series BRASS (full version):  ...watch the last 2-3 min, his thoughts and kind of summary.

Since I have Symphony Series Woodwinds, I can grab the rest of the NI SS orchestra for 300 EUR ...man, that's a bargain - Brass, Strings, Percussions - for 300 EUR! 

But since I recently invested in Spitfire's SO, and SCS, I have the feeling, that NI Symphony Series would mainly add redundancy to the pallet, am I right? 
...or is it good as a layer or filling some gaps of SSO ? Any real world experience or thoughts on having SSO AND NI SS?
cheers.

...maybe only the NI SS Percussion, for 150 EUR.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (May 30, 2018)

PSKLN said:


> ...maybe only the NI SS Percussion, for 150 EUR.



I'm selling mine for $159.


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## Alex Fraser (May 30, 2018)

PSKLN said:


> A young lad named Daniel James also found good use for the NI Symphony Series BRASS (full version):  ...watch the last 2-3 min, his thoughts and kind of summary.
> 
> Since I have Symphony Series Woodwinds, I can grab the rest of the NI SS orchestra for 300 EUR ...man, that's a bargain - Brass, Strings, Percussions - for 300 EUR!
> 
> ...



Well, your Spitfire stuff is more capable. But..the Spitfire stuff you have is all recorded at Air Studios. The NI collection brings 4 more recording spaces to your palette which might blend better with other libraries you have.

Plus, the auto divisi thing in the strings is witchcraft good. 
Sorry, probably not helping.


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## Shredoverdrive (May 30, 2018)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I only have the full version, so can't compare. What do you mean with thin? The legatos are quite soft on purpose. The overall sound is, on the other hand, good.
> 
> Here is a legato video by Cory Pelizzari. He has several videos of the brass library. Maybe it's helpful. These videos made me buy it. Note: The patch names has changed over the time. There is no "lyrical" in the instruments anymore.



Thanks for your answers. No legatos on the essential version so that's not what I mean. I mean that I find them underwhelming. The essential version, that is.


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## Tekkera (May 30, 2018)

The legato is pretty underwhelming anyway. You only get instant response bowed legato/portamento on the strings and it can come off as robotic. The brass and woodwinds also have near instant response legato. Really need that slower attack on legato in my opinion.


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## artmuz (May 31, 2018)

Shredoverdrive said:


> is is possible to completely kill the room on the full brass version with close mics settings?


Nope.
This lib is not an all situations one, it may be useful only from time to time. 
I have not tried that Sonible EQ which act as a multiband transient tool especially with release.


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## Shredoverdrive (May 31, 2018)

Well, well. Thank you all for your answers. I suppose I will only upgrade my strings, then. But the sale goes on till the end of June and I might get unexpected money till then, who knows (one can dream)? I might then choose the full upgrade for the sake of completion (and to get the full percussion collection because it's tasty).


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## ptram (May 31, 2018)

Essentials has the same samples, but less articulations and less microphones (microphones are mixed in a single stereo set).

Strings totally miss legato. Woodwinds and Brass have artificial legato, in my opinion a very good one.

What I miss from the Full version is the FX section. Has anybody used it, and compared it with something like Spitfire Uist? The list is quite impressive, but there is only a single demo making use of them.

Paolo


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## Nao Gam (May 31, 2018)

Alex Fraser said:


> Of course. I think the upgrade is valid for Komplete users too.
> 
> Some perspective: The current Spitfire solution (orchestra collection + percussion) currently runs to about £1850. I love me some Spitfire (and it's obviously the better product) but if you're looking for a starter full orchestra - at the current upgrade price I think the NI stuff is a great bet.


The eastwest sale is still running today, the hw orchestra diamond at jrrshop is pretty cheap


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## Wally Garten (May 31, 2018)

Nao Gam said:


> The eastwest sale is still running today, the hw orchestra diamond at jrrshop is pretty cheap



Yeah. It's tough - I was looking pretty hard at EW, but I ultimately passed on the EWHO sale at VSTBuzz, after a lot of reading and thought, because I couldn't be sure that it would work reliably with my system, and I'm not ready to set up a slave for just one library. I feel confident that the NISS stuff will work for me right out of the box, but, on the other hand, it apparently has some quirks of its own (big ensembles, hard to get a dry sound, no solo strings). Tradeoffs, I guess. Still thinking.


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## Nao Gam (May 31, 2018)

Wally Garten said:


> Yeah. It's tough - I was looking pretty hard at EW, but I ultimately passed on the EWHO sale at VSTBuzz, after a lot of reading and thought, because I couldn't be sure that it would work reliably with my system, and I'm not ready to set up a slave for just one library. I feel confident that the NISS stuff will work for me right out of the box, but, on the other hand, it apparently has some quirks of its own (big ensembles, hard to get a dry sound, no solo strings). Tradeoffs, I guess. Still thinking.


EW seems to be pretty resource heavy - more than it should be for what it does if you know what I mean. Huge disk space demands too. Strings is 310gb and I can't fit that in an ssd right now.
I'm sure the sound is better than NI. But NI must have better workflow too.
I'm personally not interested in NI series, maybe the brass only (I wanna get komplete ultimate which includes essentials except percussion) but I have other orchestral libs too.
If you're not sure your system/patience can take a hit maybe NI is a better idea, it sounds decent and is perfectly usable from what I've seen.
Also, neither has solo instruments.
There's also some decent vsl deals in the sales section if you dig in
https://vi-control.net/community/forums/for-sale-music-gear-classifieds-free-service.66/


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jun 1, 2018)

Nao Gam said:


> I wanna get komplete ultimate which includes essentials except percussion /QUOTE]



KU12 will include Essentials Percussion.


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## Nao Gam (Jun 1, 2018)

TigerTheFrog said:


> KU12 will include Essentials Percussion.


Yes but it won't be half price
Not to mention I somehow got komplete 11 for free today. Just 300€ for ultimate!


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jun 1, 2018)

Nao Gam said:


> Yes but it won't be half price
> Not to mention I somehow got komplete 11 for free today. Just 300€ for ultimate!


Wow! That’s quite a deal. 

If KU12 comes out this fall, I’ll wait for the summer sale to upgrade.


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## Eptesicus (Jun 1, 2018)

Nao Gam said:


> Not to mention I somehow got komplete 11 for free today.



how did you manage that?!


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## Nao Gam (Jun 1, 2018)

Eptesicus said:


> how did you manage that?!


Local store
At first I thought maybe it was a mistake but they don't even sell NI software on their site?!?
I got a kk 49 mk2 from them and there was an extra komplete 11 upgrade for select/kk owners strapped on the side.. no extra cost.
Go figure


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## husker (Jun 1, 2018)

ptram said:


> Essentials has the same samples, but less articulations and less microphones (microphones are mixed in a single stereo set).



Does the full version have more articulations? This site lists 38 for both full and essentials.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/cinematic/symphony-series-string-ensemble/


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## Nao Gam (Jun 1, 2018)

husker said:


> Does the full version have more articulations? This site lists 38 for both full and essentials.
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/cinematic/symphony-series-string-ensemble/


Essentials has less inc no legato check the articulations tab


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## husker (Jun 1, 2018)

Nao Gam said:


> Essentials has less inc no legato check the articulations tab



The site is confusing - both list 38 articulations, but the full has legato and full divisi.


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## Rap-sody (Jun 1, 2018)

The upgrade is tempting, even if it's not perfect, it seems quite good for the price. I could have some use from it.


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