# Rates of orchestra recording in Abbey Road?



## rpaillot (Jun 7, 2013)

Hi there,

I know rates are usually secrets , but how much would cost , all included, an orchestra recording in abbey road / air studios with a 60-70 pieces orchestra? One session ? 
And how many minutes of music can you record in one session?



Thanks


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## Daryl (Jun 7, 2013)

rpaillot @ Fri Jun 07 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I know rates are usually secrets , but how much would cost , all included, an orchestra recording in abbey road / air studios with a 60-70 pieces orchestra? One session ?
> And how many minutes of music can you record in one session?
> ...


Rates aren't secret. The Union will tell you what they are. Or just ring up a fixer and ask.

However, as far as the players are concerned you will need to know the usage for the tracks, because film, for example, is more expensive than library, which is more expensive than ClassicaL. The amount of music depends on usage and length of session.

As far as the studio is concerned you would need to budget £3-3.5K for the room, £500 for Pro tools hire and £600-900 for engineer, depending on who you want.

D


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## rpaillot (Jun 7, 2013)

Thanks Daryl.

I'm not really looking for the exact cost estimate , just for a price range ( like : "it will cost you between 30 and 40K" for one session ) 
Its for a low budget film.


I would prefer to know that price range before calling and ask for a quote.

Also , I know some of you would think it's crazy for low budget to record in london, but , we all have dreams !! :D


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## Daryl (Jun 8, 2013)

rpaillot @ Sat Jun 08 said:


> Thanks Daryl.
> 
> I'm not really looking for the exact cost estimate , just for a price range ( like : "it will cost you between 30 and 40K" for one session )
> Its for a low budget film.
> ...


I think "low budget" is around £55 per hour per player, minimum of 3 hour session. Don't forget to factor in doubling and porterage though. Maybe just call the Union and ask them. Or if you can wait a couple of days, I can find out for you. :wink: 

D


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## nikolas (Jun 8, 2013)

Daryl @ Fri Jun 07 said:


> However, as far as the players are concerned you will need to know the usage for the tracks, because film, for example, is more expensive than library, which is more expensive than ClassicaL. The amount of music depends on usage and length of session.


Really?!?! I would imagine that contemporary classical music being VERY difficult, would have a higher rate than film or library music...

But if not, by all means I'm happy! ^_^


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## jamwerks (Jun 8, 2013)

I recorded once at Air (studio B), so I imagine that would be the same union (same players) that you would get at Abby.

There were strict rules regarding the number of minutes you could be record in a session (11 per hour?), as well as no possible over-dubbing.


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## mark.warman (Jun 8, 2013)

You can record up to 20 minutes of music in a 3 hour session under the current British MU agreement.

Mark Warman
Musical Director


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## rpaillot (Jun 8, 2013)

Thanks guys for your informations . 
It gets more and more clear  

@Daryl it's not I'm afraid to call but I would be interested by your last proposal


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## midi_controller (Jun 8, 2013)

mark.warman @ Sat Jun 08 said:


> You can record up to 20 minutes of music in a 3 hour session under the current British MU agreement.
> 
> Mark Warman
> Musical Director



Seriously? Considering people are paying a premium for their time, why would they impose limits on how that time is used?


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## Daryl (Jun 8, 2013)

mark.warman @ Sat Jun 08 said:


> You can record up to 20 minutes of music in a 3 hour session under the current British MU agreement.
> 
> Mark Warman
> Musical Director


I think for film it's 24 minutes, but I'd have to check.

D


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## Daryl (Jun 8, 2013)

nikolas @ Sat Jun 08 said:


> Daryl @ Fri Jun 07 said:
> 
> 
> > However, as far as the players are concerned you will need to know the usage for the tracks, because film, for example, is more expensive than library, which is more expensive than ClassicaL. The amount of music depends on usage and length of session.
> ...


Nope. If Classical music rates were any higher there would never be any orchestral music recorded, because (comparatively) nobody buys Classical music any more. Put it this way, if you were to spend £40K making a Classical CD, do you really think that you'd get your money back, never mind make a profit? :wink: 

D


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## Daryl (Jun 8, 2013)

rpaillot @ Sat Jun 08 said:


> Thanks guys for your informations .
> It gets more and more clear
> 
> @Daryl it's not I'm afraid to call but I would be interested by your last proposal


OK, I'll get back to you early next week.

D


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## Daryl (Jun 8, 2013)

midi_controller @ Sat Jun 08 said:


> mark.warman @ Sat Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> > You can record up to 20 minutes of music in a 3 hour session under the current British MU agreement.
> ...


Oh how naive you are Young Skywalker. :lol: 

But to answer your question, it is mainly historic. There was a time when producers were packing so much music in that the players were under huge pressure and getting blamed for bad results (we're talking many decades ago), so limits were imposed. To be fair it is very unlikely that you'd be able to record much more than 20 minutes of new music in a 3 hour session anyway, unless it was very easy. When I was at the BBC we used to do up to 45 minutes in a 3 and a half hour session (if memory serves), but we only ever got close to the maximum if we all knew the music, and sometimes the pieces weren't even rehearsed before being recorded.

D


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## Jdiggity1 (Jun 8, 2013)

So that's how Daryl got such a high post count! ^^ :lol:
(just messin)


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## jamwerks (Jun 8, 2013)

midi_controller @ Sat Jun 08 said:


> Seriously? Considering people are paying a premium for their time, why would they impose limits on how that time is used?


That's a good question (and one that I had myself). If the music is well orchestrated, and the scores are precise as to your intentions, you could potentially do more than the 20 allots minutes per session.

In my eyes, it's a question of stress for the musicians. If you've got 35 minutes to do, and you book just one session hoping to do it all, it can be a stressful 4 hours for everybody. It's kink of a mental-health protection.

There's also a rule prohibiting overdubs (in the same session). Your solo flute player can't dub a 2nd and/or third flute part in a piece during the same session. In a following session you can go back and add another part though. That essentially keeps people from hiring just one of an instrument, thinking to then play-in additional parts.


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## JJP (Jun 8, 2013)

As mentioned before, the time limits are to prevent overworking the musicians and also to protect the quality of music.

We can all imagine some clueless composer or producer coming in and asking for an hour or more of music in a 3-hour session. At the session, everyone races through the music with time for only one take of everything regardless of the sound.

Then that music gets released. People hear it and say, "Wow, those London musicians sound terrible. Let's record somewhere else." That doesn't help anyone, especially the musicians who will lose future work because of clueless production.


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## midi_controller (Jun 8, 2013)

That makes sense, although I do think 20 is a little bit low, but then again I don't think I've ever written anything that would be all that hard to play. It's good to know however, I'll have to make sure that if I ever hire a full orchestra, everything we record in that session makes full use of all the musicians.


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