# Re / piece



## re-peat (May 22, 2010)

I've done a new version of a http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/Re_PF_May2010.mp3 (&gt; piece &lt;) which I've posted before. Thanks for listening!

_


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## JohnG (May 22, 2010)

Wild piece, Piet. I don't think I'd heard the original version.

Inventive, fun, entertaining. Somehow in the mood or tradition or mindset of Henry Mancini, in a jolly way.

It's a very impressive realisation, though it naturally cries out for real brass (and winds, and...)


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## re-peat (May 22, 2010)

Thanks, John!



JohnG @ Sat May 22 said:


> (...) though it naturally cries out for real brass (and winds, and...)


It does, doesn't it? Ah, well ...

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I've put another piece back online: http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/ReClitoresque_May2010.mp3 (&gt; Clitoresque &lt;). This one is also somewhat different from the version that was posted a few weeks ago, especially towards the end where I've now added a bluesyjazzyfunkysweaty B3-solo (which I quite like). Montage, edits and mix are different too.

_


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## synergy543 (May 22, 2010)

What a refreshing aural treat. Thanks for posting. I think it works quite well with samples and almost seems as if its made for samples more than for live performance. Either way, its a creative use of samples. You really bring them alive in a playful way.

Why the abrupt ending on Clitoresque though? By design?...or did my download not complete?


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## cc64 (May 22, 2010)

synergy543 @ Sat May 22 said:


> Why the abrupt ending on Clitoresque though? By design?...or did my download not complete?



Coïtus Interuptus?

CC


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## synergy543 (May 22, 2010)

Oh... (I get it now... a little slow here)...

the steamy "sweaty" Organ (ism) solo aborted.

Needs to end with a door creaking open and a little kid saying "Mom...., Dad...."


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## Craig Sharmat (May 23, 2010)

great listen, terrific sense of space in the mix, and as always you find the samples personality or samples with personality.

Great to have you back on the forum and I mean that sincerely.


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## re-peat (May 23, 2010)

Thanks!

Thomas, here's a listing of the main libraries used for the first piece:

- Miroslav Vitous Strings (the new library, not the old one)
- Sonic Implants Strings
- LASS
- RealGuitar & EW 'Gypsy' guitar
- ProjectSAM Concert Harp
- EWQLSO Platinum Brass (trombones & bass trombone)
- Westgate Horn & WIVI Horn
- Synful (clarinet)
- AcousticSamples KawaiEX & GalaxyII Vintage (piano)
- Trilian (electric bass)
- Vienna Woodwind Ensembles (the 'Horizon' series for Logic's EXS)
- various percussion libraries

Gregory, the ending was indeed cut short for some bizarre reason. I don't know why. It's been restored.

Thanks again!

_


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## dadek (May 23, 2010)

re-peat @ Sun May 23 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Thomas, here's a listing of the main libraries used for the first piece:
> 
> ...



So have you given up on the 'audio' component of the V-Piano?


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## cc64 (May 23, 2010)

Really nice track Piet.

Reminds me in a very positive way of some of Luis Bacalov's work.

Best,

Claude


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## re-peat (May 23, 2010)

Claude, thanks!

Dadek, 
No, I haven't. (There's actually a bit of V-Piano in there, but not enough to mention it.)
Having said that, the V-Piano's timbre does remain somewhat problematic (in certain areas anyway) and I've also learned that its tone is often quite difficult to blend with sample-based textures. It's a bit like trying to mix oil with water: they never really become one, do they?

_


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## Narval (May 23, 2010)

Amazing job - composition, playing, programing, mixing, everything. Flawless! Thanks for posting this kind of stuff, I think you should sell it! 

May I ask what was your "wrapping" reverb?


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## dadek (May 23, 2010)

Thanks for the info, and the piece!


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## germancomponist (May 24, 2010)

+1 for this 2 pieces!

I like them both very much, what a cool arranging!

Very great work, re-peat!


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## re-peat (May 24, 2010)

Narval,
I only use algorithmic reverbs. (It's been quite a long while since Altiverb took place of pride in any of my mixes.) So, in order of prominence: TC's spacious VSS3, UniversalAudio's sensuous EMT140 & EMT 250 and the workmanlike Sonnox Reverb.

Thanks again, everyone!

_


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## michaelv (May 24, 2010)

I love it! Cheeky, witty, very sophisticated. I can hear this in a Polanski film. This a sound that could only come from Europe....


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## Pzy-Clone (May 24, 2010)

Re-peat, could you possibly find the time to share a few thoughts on the new Miroslav library? Since you mention it being featured here.

I would find it very interesting to hear your initial thoughts on the library and its supplied "engine".

Thanx!


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## rayinstirling (May 24, 2010)

With Clitoresque I'm immediately reminded of Harry Connick Jr "Star Turtle" only wackier. The feeling of being in the room with the musicians is certainly as strong.
I just love it Piet.

Thanks for sharing

Ray


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## Narval (May 24, 2010)

When I listen to music I'm immediately reminded that whatever _common_ the music might sound like, the composer is unique and unlikely to appreciate "this sounds like that" type of comments.

Just saying.


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## rayinstirling (May 24, 2010)

Narval @ Mon May 24 said:


> When I listen to music I'm immediately reminded that whatever _common_ the music might sound like, the composer is unique and unlikely to appreciate "this sounds like that" type of comments.
> 
> Just saying.



Well wash my mouth out with soap!

You're absolutely right, please pardon my stupidity.


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## re-peat (May 24, 2010)

Michael,
Ray,
Narval,

Thanks very much.

------

Pzy-Clone,

Regarding the *Vitous*: I tend to agree with a lot (not all, but a lot) that’s in Mr. Alexander’s review of the library.

The Vitous is difficult to recommend, to be honest. It would be irresponsible to do so in this day and age, in fact. It’s a very old-fashioned library (in the sense of ‘out-dated’, I mean), created by someone who seems to be totally out-of-touch with the times and completely unaware of the vast improvements that have occurred in the field of (orchestral) sampling over the past few years. This new library is, in fact, very much like the old one, be it on a larger scale: it shares (some of) its predecessor’s sonic qualities — not quite though, in my opinion —, but unfortunately also its many shortcomings and limitations. The programming is unbelievably spartan (almost 1990’s-like simplistic even), there’s hardly any velocity-switching or realtime control, there’s nothing in the way of convincing legato simulation, there’s a baffling neglect for short articulations and — Mr. Alexander’s main beef, as I recall — there are no looped samples (the longest sustain you’ll find in the Vitous stays well below the 10 seconds).
And the IndependancePlayer is not exactly the most inspiring environment to work in either: cumbersome, awkward and ugly (to my eyes anyway). (But it's quite stable and performs rather well as a plugin in Logic, it must be said.)

On the good side: the Vitous contains articulations which you won’t find anywhere else: sustained notes (well: ‘semi-sustained’ is perhaps a more accurate term) with a very musical dynamic & timbral shaping that can be most effective in melodic stylings and/or semi-long harmonic parts, and which are quite impossible to recreate with even the cleverest midi-controller methods. (There’s an amazing lot of these ‘articulated sustains’ as it happens: this is obviously what must have interested Mr. Vitous most of all during the recording sessions.)
The sound is very decent too, although personally, I thought the original Vitous strings sounded just a bit warmer and rounder.
Another nice thing about the Vitous is that its samples, being unlooped, don’t have any of that ‘dead sustain’ which many other libraries suffer from.
But that’s about all I can think of really.

So, who’s this library for then? I really don’t know, to be frank. Fifteen years ago this might perhaps have been a winner, but today, one can only be puzzled that this product was ever released in the state it currently is. It contains almost nothing that even begins to compete with what's included in today’s other offerings and whatever the Vituous may have in the way of unique qualities is, surely, way too little to lure anyone away from those other big libraries.
In its current state, the Vitous library is definitely way overpriced. Almost criminally so even, I dare say. One can only hope that the update(s) which are due within a few months, will add plenty of content, quality and appeal. But I’m affraid that it just won’t happen, given the excrutiatingly bad new demoes (check the BestService product pages) which also include some sampled instruments from the forthcoming Vitous Brass & Wind libraries: terrible sound, terrible programming, terrible everything really, as far as I’m concerned. That, coupled with Mr. Vitous misplaced self-praise (as expressed repeatedly during his spoken introduction to the demos), leads me to fear the worst for the future of this and any other library which carries his illustrious name.
In short: one of the most forgettable libraries of the past decade, in my view, and one of the very, very few samplelibraries which I really do regret buying.

Anyway, if I ever manage to create something listeneable with it — it's certainly possible to do that, although it's far from an inviting challenge —, I'll definitely post it here.

_


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## Hannes_F (May 24, 2010)

Piet you are a maniac (again). Really glad to hear your work (have done several times and still repeating) because it presents a kind of natural musicality that can not be tamed and at the same time solaces me just because of its existence. 

These are both energy-bars (in a musical way) that last for a long distance, thank you so much.


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## Guy Bacos (May 24, 2010)

Not so much my cup of tea, but I can appreciate the playful side, perhaps a bit too playful for me, I know this can be your strength when you want. Very well crafted as usual.


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## Ian Dorsch (May 24, 2010)

Fantastic work, Piet. Really enjoyable composition and arrangement, the samples are used in an impeccably musical manner, and to round it all out, the mix has a fantastic clarity. Thanks very much for posting it. It's inspiring stuff.


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## Guy Bacos (May 25, 2010)

Piet, I've been listening again to your piece, and several times, each time I'm enjoying it more, which means it has real depth, the same way we find among the great works.

For me the piano was not my fav sample, a real one would of been sweet with those bases, or even the Vienna Imperial, good bases!


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## mixolydian (May 25, 2010)

Another outstanding track. As a side-note I pretty much like the Hammond part/solo in ReClitoresque. Piet, as you dislike the Vitous big time, and as you have alternatives at your fingertips, why you make use of it in this track, kinda experimentation or is there something you won't find in other libraries? What a pity you spent another grand on a library you'll probably never fall in love with (...thinking about CS).


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## re-peat (May 26, 2010)

Guy,

Thanks! I agree with you on the piano, you know. It didn't come out the way I had in my mind, but that was actually among the smaller of my problems with this piece, so I let it pass: I don't really like the sound of the guitars either, to be honest, or the fact that I never quite managed to give the pizzicati the 'lilt' they ought to have, or the synthetic buzz in Synful's clarinet, or the tame, unengaged timbre of the Vienna flutes, or the poor sound of the strings' short stabs, ... Hundreds of little and not so little things which still frustrate me about this piece.
There's also a rather nice interplay (to my mind anyway ) between the basses playing in triple time against the rest of the rhythm doing quadruple time — and this conflict is quite essential to the pulse of the music -, but that too never came out quite like I hoped it would.

Mixolydian,

Thanks too! Yes, I'm very disappointed with the Vitous package, but that doesn't mean to say that it doesn't contain some rather appealing sounds. The pizzicati, for instance, are among the finer specimen I know (and they are featured heavily in this track): none of that unpleasant twang which ruins most other pizz patches, but instead a really nice pluck. (Such a shame that these Vitous pizzicati were only sampled at two dynamic levels ...)

By the way: there is not a single stringlibrary that I love. Not even the latest and greatest offerings. It seems to me that the art of sampling strings really hasn't progressed all that much since the days of Siedlazceck's Advanced Orchestra. Technically, yes: huge strides forwards, but sonically and musically, we're still as far removed from being able to simulate a truly living, vibrant and organic stringsound as we ever were, it seems to me. Which is why I keep buying almost everything that's being released in a pathetic attempt to hopefully find, among these mountains and mountains of samples, the occasional sound which delivers something that I can use in my music. 

_


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## Pzy-Clone (May 26, 2010)

ah, thank you for that elaborate and honest presentation of the new Vitous library.

I was for a moment (altho a very brief moment ) struck by the idea that i could possibly reprogram the library in kontakt, in the eventuality that i should aquire it. 
But i have since learned that the yellow tools engine is indeed a locked container type of thing, so alas....

I also like your compositions very much.
...and upon some investigative work i realized i had some of your older work from NS years ago residing on my harddrive.
Actualy...it was your "March for Mock Orchestra" that made me look into VSL+Altiverb as a serious option for doing orchestral work. 

Good stuff indeed.


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## mixolydian (May 26, 2010)

re-peat @ Wed May 26 said:


> By the way: there is not a single stringlibrary that I love. Not even the latest and greatest offerings. It seems to me that the art of sampling strings really hasn't progressed all that much since the days of Siedlazceck's Advanced Orchestra.


I see.


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