# Looking for Hands-on Composition Online Course



## Jason Sioco (Apr 10, 2021)

I am looking for a Composition course where the exercises involves playing the piano a lot or at least exploring on the piano. Not only that, the composition course comes from a website where it sells not only composition courses but a variety of topics ie. Mike Verta, Alexander Publishing, etc. One more thing, I want no part of overpriced scam courses ie. Cinematic Composing, Evenant, Think Space, etc.

I am looking for this type of hands-on training because I was denied enrolment on a film scoring course in York University in Toronto, Canada. And this mediocre school has terrible composition courses and I did not learn anything. I spent my 4 years of “musical studies” doing more science courses and liberal arts courses.

Even though the college route didn’t quite work out for me. I realized the past few years after I graduated that there are more great resources online for film scoring. I just don’t know where to begin.


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## Mackieguy (Apr 10, 2021)

What do you think you are missing? Have you looked at getting a book or two on orchestration? Have you practiced writing music to a movie scene that had no music or the music taken out? Are you looking for a professor to evaluate your work? I guess I’m not sure how to answer your question if I don’t what it is you are looking for that you didn’t get in your previous efforts.


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## Akarin (Apr 10, 2021)

Jason Sioco said:


> One more thing, I want no part of overpriced scam courses ie. Cinematic Composing, Evenant, Think Space, etc.



Today, I make a (good) living, thanks to these 3 "scam" courses (and a lot of Mike Verta.)


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## gzapper (Apr 10, 2021)

Akarin said:


> Today, I make a (good) living, thanks to these 3 "scam" courses (and a lot of Mike Verta.)


And I've been making my living for a couple of decades off the courses I took at that mediocre university.


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## Crowe (Apr 10, 2021)

EDIT: No, fuck it.

I'd been writing a rather large reply but with the way you speak, you better curb your belligerence and find some humility. Take a look in the mirror. If you need piano exercises, take piano lessons.

If you think Evenant and Thinkspace are scams, _nobody here can help you._


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## yiph2 (Apr 10, 2021)

"Denied enrollment", then say it's a mediocre school. And you still enrolled even though you knew it was "mediocre"  If you think Thinkspace are "scams", good luck finding anything


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## Drumdude2112 (Apr 10, 2021)

Akarin said:


> Today, I make a (good) living, thanks to these 3 "scam" courses (and a lot of Mike Verta.)


I'd add score club to that list too 👍🏻
All been wonderful learning sources for me .


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## Akarin (Apr 10, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> I'd add score club to that list too 👍🏻
> All been wonderful learning sources for me .



Totally agreed! This one is also at the top with all the other scam courses 🤣


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## Drumdude2112 (Apr 10, 2021)

Akarin said:


> Totally agreed! This one is also at the top with all the other scam courses 🤣


LMAO , guess the music i've delivered to clients after studying from those 'scam courses' aint 'legit' lol .


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## YuyaoSG (Apr 10, 2021)

LoL, lot of universities denied my DMA Composition application this year, but they are all good universities.


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## Akarin (Apr 10, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> LMAO , guess the music i've delivered to clients after studying from those 'scam courses' aint 'legit' lol .



Heheh. I credit most of my current earnings to Arn from Evenant.


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## jbuhler (Apr 10, 2021)

A lot of academic programs weren’t accepting applications this year or had reduced admissions so there were many fewer slots. But getting good hands-on training is not going to be cheap however you get it, and the cheaper the on-line course the less likely you’ll receive any kind of personalized feedback.


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## Jason Sioco (Apr 10, 2021)

Things to clarify:

* I was denied enrolment in that film scoring course because I did not know how to use a DAW during that time. But when I did learn how to use a DAW it was actually easy. And the professor of that course Randolph Peters is a terrible professor to begin with.

* I signed up for this website to help me shop the right composition, orchestration, and film scoring courses. I am ready to buy anytime and I have time to study the courses this entire weekend. I did not come here to debate and to get trolled at.


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## jbuhler (Apr 10, 2021)

Jason Sioco said:


> Things to clarify:
> 
> * I was denied enrolment in that film scoring course because I did not know how to use a DAW during that time. But when I did learn how to use a DAW it was actually easy. And the professor of that course Randolph Peters is a terrible professor to begin with.
> 
> * I signed up for this website to help me shop the right composition, orchestration, and film scoring courses. I am ready to buy anytime and I have time to study the courses this entire weekend. I did not come here to debate and to get trolled at.


Dude, go back and reread your initial post and think about why you’re getting the responses you are.


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## dzilizzi (Apr 10, 2021)

Jason Sioco said:


> Things to clarify:
> 
> * I was denied enrolment in that film scoring course because I did not know how to use a DAW during that time. But when I did learn how to use a DAW it was actually easy. And the professor of that course Randolph Peters is a terrible professor to begin with.
> 
> * I signed up for this website to help me shop the right composition, orchestration, and film scoring courses. I am ready to buy anytime and I have time to study the courses this entire weekend. I did not come here to debate and to get trolled at.


Well, you called Thinkspace, which is affiliated with an English University and gives Masters degrees a scam course. You will get told off. 

Maybe try the Art of Composing classes? If you want to learn film score composing, you are going to have to use a DAW, if only to match to the film. If you want to solely compose on a piano, and learn basic composition, try looking for music composition classes on Coursera. There are a lot from legit universities you can pay for credit and to have your assignments reviewed or not pay and only have access to other students reviews.


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## YuyaoSG (Apr 10, 2021)

Jason Sioco said:


> 需要澄清的事情：
> 
> *因为那段时间我不知道如何使用DAW，所以我被拒绝参加那部电影评分课程。但是，当我确实学会了如何使用DAW时，这实际上很容易。兰道夫·彼得斯（Randolph Peters）是该课程的教授。
> 
> *我注册了该网站，以帮助我购买正确的构图，编排和电影评分课程。我随时准备购买，整个周末我都有时间学习课程。我不是来这里辩论和被吸引的。


But, honestly, here are some advice you might not like it but it is actually working.
Assuming you are a beginner.
After you learned how to use DAW.
1)The Thinksapce, Mike Verta, Evenant are good places you need to check out.
But just check the basic parts. Do not buy advanced courses.
And get an orchestration book. Combined with your course to do some practice like 8 bar, 16 bar every week.
Then, finding a large amount of orchestra music. Listen to it every day, and do some mockups.
This will be a very difficult process. You want to improve quickly, but reality does not allow it. But you have to persist.

2)When you have analyzed a few complete orchestral pieces of music and have a certain foundation for yourself, choose different advanced courses according to your needs.

Your understanding of the advanced content at the basic stage is completely different from your understanding of the advanced content at the advanced stage. So, don’t buy advanced courses at your basic level.


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## Jason Sioco (Apr 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Well, you called Thinkspace, which is affiliated with an English University and gives Masters degrees a scam course. You will get told off.
> 
> Maybe try the Art of Composing classes? If you want to learn film score composing, you are going to have to use a DAW, if only to match to the film. If you want to solely compose on a piano, and learn basic composition, try looking for music composition classes on Coursera. There are a lot from legit universities you can pay for credit and to have your assignments reviewed or not pay and only have access to other students reviews.


* I was looking more for resources that is similar to Alexander Publishing. Mostly In PDF form or a book in PDF form not too centric on Video Tutorials.

* And if needed be a composition course that will give me an in-depth foundation and structure with motivic development.


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## Markrs (Apr 10, 2021)

I almost think I should applaud you for managing to insult so many people so quickly. I'm sure you didn't intend to, but trash talking courses that you haven't actually taken, that many here have and rate, probably wasn't the best introduction someone could make.

Regarding your request, getting books in PDF form is going to tricky as they have little copy protection. A lot of books that are rated can be found in Kindle version, though still not cheap. There are good hardback and paper backed books on music theory, harmony and orchestration (plenty of users on here can give you excellent recommendations for those), but again they will not be legally in PDF version.


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## Jason Sioco (Apr 10, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I almost think I should applaud you for managing to insult so many people so quickly. I'm sure you didn't intend to, but trash talking courses that you haven't actually taken, that many here have and rate, probably wasn't the best introduction someone could make.
> 
> Regarding your request, getting books in PDF form is going to tricky as they have little copy protection. A lot of books that are rated can be found in Kindle version, though still not cheap. There are good hardback and paper backed books on music theory, harmony and orchestration (plenty of users on here can give you excellent recommendations for those), but again they will not be legally in PDF version.


Things to clarify again:

* I did buy courses from Thinkspace, Evenant, and Cinematic Composing - Only to end up asking for a refund 3 straight times in a row. Right from the first module, I was quick to detect the scam.

* I did buy a course from Mike Verta called Composition 1. In the case of Mike Verta there was a little bit of meat than the spineless scam courses mentioned above. But most of what I remember more from Mike Verta are endless rambling and cussing and constantly wiping his nose and scratching various parts of his body on a 3 hour recorded live stream. That’s why I prefer the concepts of the course laid out in PDF form than watching an instructor pick his boogers.

* I finally decided that I will stick with my initial interest with Alexander Publishing. I will begin with their harmony and counterpoint courses and build a base from there. Then I will take their orchestration courses and finally their film scoring courses.

* I plan not to return to this website. But I will return a bit if someone wants me to go primal with why I think college and university are the biggest scam in society, then I’m ready to drop the load and expose the college scam.


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## Markrs (Apr 10, 2021)

We are all super lovely people here, and I never thought I would say this to someone new on here but; you will not be missed!

You seem to have a significant chip on your shoulder and to be honest I don't think most of us in these challenging times need more of the bad vibes that you are giving off. 

I hope the Alexander Publishing PDF books work out for you.


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## Johnny42 (Apr 10, 2021)

You might want to try Alan Belkin Musical Composition. He also has a youtube channel that you can subscribe to.
Hope that helps!


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## szczaw (Apr 10, 2021)

You're going to study Counterpoint by Fux ??? HAHA !


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## szczaw (Apr 10, 2021)

That's a sure way to be handicapped when writing music.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 10, 2021)

@Jason Sioco Don't give up on the forum just yet, you received an initial bad reaction because you used some pretty colorful language in expressing some of your frustrations with your prior experiences...one at an apparently lower grade college, and perhaps some bad experiences with some products that didn't work for you. Many people here are quite educated and fond of some of the stuff you were dissing on...so.. 

There are TONS of resources out there in terms of books, PDF's too, videos, tons. Tons of free stuff even! Start with that for a while. There is no one perfect system or source...if you search this forum you will find countless debates about different programs. I am not going to call anything a scam, I think people are legitimately trying to provide learning resources, those are not "scams", but that doesn't mean they will all work for everybody either. Some of the ones you mentioned are not my cup of tea either. There is no universal agreement on how to go about teaching or learning this stuff. In my experience there is no garauntee that paying more will assure higher quality. But different people learn differently, or else those programs would not be at least a little successful.

I also understand your desire for printed material, or PDF's, I 100% prefer that approach for learning this kind of stuff also. The world seems to be moving to video learning, I feel its easier to produce a video then it is to write and publish a book, but that's just me, but I'll take a well written book/pdf any day over having to sit through hours and hours of videos and take notes. The producers would prefer to sit in front of a camera and ramble then to have to think and organize a well crafted book. That is my opinion. But some people really prefer listening to a person talk to them on a video...so there is really no right or wrong answer here. Sometimes a video is really helpful to convey ideas, and play sounds that you can't get easily in a book..so it goes both ways; and it can be done well or poorly.

There are so many resources, its really impossible for anyone here to tell you what you should go get and read/watch. if you want to approach a particular specific topic...then I'm sure you will get much more helpful answers. A broad question like "my college sucked and so does this other video learning I did, so tell me what to get", is too broad of a question. 

I have no problem with your strong opinions, mind you, but they elicited strong opinions back is all... Tone it down, ask pointed questions in specific topics..you will get many useful answers here, the people on this forum are extremely well-read and educated.


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## szczaw (Apr 10, 2021)

Relax people, he's just goofing around.


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## Gingerbread (Apr 10, 2021)

Jason Sioco said:


> * I plan not to return to this website.


Man, that's gonna be tough. How will we manage without your brilliant insights and opinions?


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## ed buller (Apr 10, 2021)

Jason Sioco said:


> I did not come here to debate and to get trolled at.


and yet !


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## D Halgren (Apr 10, 2021)

Jason Sioco said:


> Challenging Times? If you’re referring to the COVID-19 pandemic - then yeah this fake virus hoax is an entire scam in itself. The same thing with the recent elections, you have a fake president that “won decisively“ by voter fraud. So yes these are challenging times that are completely manufactured crisis.
> 
> For the Alexander Publishing, I was thinking for several minutes which course to buy first, Harmony or Fux Counterpoint; then I decided to buy all three of them - The 2 Harmony Courses and Fux Counterpoint!


🤦‍♂️


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## Crowe (Apr 10, 2021)

Ooooooh it's a troll. Got it.


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## Jason Sioco (Apr 10, 2021)

I completed buying the courses at Alexander Publishing. I got what I needed in the first place...I am not coming back in this shithole website. Not even clicking on a Google search.

GOOD RIDDANCE SIMPLETONS!!!


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## Nimrod7 (Apr 10, 2021)




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## MartinH. (Apr 10, 2021)

Jason Sioco said:


> I plan not to return to this website. But I will return a bit if someone wants me to go primal with why I think college and university are the biggest scam in society, then I’m ready to drop the load and expose the college scam.



No thanks, heard that one about a dozen times before.

If you liked the core of what Mike Verta teaches, but not the delivery, you could just transcribe pieces by ear all day. That's how he learned.




Jason Sioco said:


> I am not coming back in this shithole website.


I wish you well on your journey and hope you'll find what you seek.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 10, 2021)

Gentlemen, please lower your hackles and return to the bench.

This is under review by the league office and there will probably be penalties and suspensions.


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## MauroPantin (Apr 10, 2021)

I would recommend ScoreClub. I would also like to recommend better people skills, particularly around negative feedback. I say this sincerely, not as an insult or a passive-aggressive remark. Writing the music is only half the job. Best of luck.


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## Gerbil (Apr 10, 2021)

Jason Sioco said:


> I don't know anyone in Hollywood, that is a film composer and they came from York University. Show me.


Trevor Jones. 

Now remember to keep your bridge treated or it will rot away.


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## Mike Greene (Apr 10, 2021)

I deleted the last few posts and I'm giving Jason a timeout for a few days so he can calm down a bit.


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## Drumdude2112 (Apr 11, 2021)

well at least that wasnt weird or anything lol 😂


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## emilio_n (Apr 11, 2021)

Jason Sioco said:


> I am not coming back in this shithole website. Not even clicking on a Google search.


😂😂😂😂
What happen with the people????


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## gzapper (Apr 11, 2021)

Jason Sioco said:


> I completed buying the courses at Alexander Publishing. I got what I needed in the first place...I am not coming back in this shithole website. Not even clicking on a Google search.
> 
> GOOD RIDDANCE SIMPLETONS!!!


How disappointing.
I was so looking forward to having someone explain the scam of universities and colleges to all of us simpletons, now we'll forever be stuck without that superior insight.


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## Weyenberg Creative (Apr 11, 2021)

I am disappointed that we won't get to experience how far that brilliant communication style will take him in this industry. "This director is making a scam film, he doesn't like me fuxing the counterpoint with my compositional knowledge gained from PDFs!"


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## markit (Apr 11, 2021)

Puzzling is the only adjective I can come up to describe the situation here. This was so bad to the point of being almost entertaining.


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