# Just Staffpad or Staffpad + Keyboard?



## Zero Music Knowledge (Jul 11, 2022)

To all Staffpad users here, do you ONLY use Staffpad when composing or do you also have a keyboard or synth or other instrument that you use for playing around along with Staffpad?

To Staffpad only users, do you feel more freedom or more constrained by not touching any instrument at all.

To those who use both, what is your process?

I'm considering getting the new AKAI MPC Keys 61 which is a completely different way of composing music than using just Staffpad, so I'm thinking that getting the keyboard will muddle up my composition learning and practice with Staffpad with the two methods being so different.

I know focusing on one method will help me learn better as opposed to playing with both. Though I'm sure having the keyboard will be fun, I'm worried that fun will just take time away from my goal of becoming a composer.
Also, if I don't spend on the Keyboard, I can pay for Staffpad's 3rd party libraries.

Planning on composing music for games and film scoring but also just songs for my wife.


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## Montisquirrel (Jul 12, 2022)

Zero Music Knowledge said:


> To all Staffpad users here, do you ONLY use Staffpad when composing or do you also have a keyboard or synth or other instrument that you use for playing around along with Staffpad?
> 
> To Staffpad only users, do you feel more freedom or more constrained by not touching any instrument at all.
> 
> ...


I have a piano at home and I don't want to miss it. For me and I guess for most composers the workflow is to create ideas at the piano and after that put these ideas into Staffpad (or into a DAW).

I just checked the price of the AKAI MPC 61 and it is 2000€. Are you sure you need that? Are you already able to play piano? I have a Yamaha Digital Piano which is awesome but costs half the price. Depending on your piano skills maybe get something cheaper and go for the 3rd party plugins of Staffpad because thats where Staffpad begins to shine.

Maybe you can share your composing experience to get a better picture about your needs


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## Scamper (Jul 12, 2022)

The way I see it, it's valuable to use both methods of composing - with and without the piano. Instead of hindering your progress, I think it's rather broadening your horizon. In the end, you're doing the same thing, composing and trying to find ideas, just in different ways.

Personally, when using StaffPad, I use only that and no instrument, which I like, because it does free up my mind. The process feels looser and more creative, whereas with a piano, it's much easier to fall into common patterns.
Still, the piano is great to play around, try ideas quickly and plan everything more thoroughly. So, at home with my DAW, I use that. Also, getting more skilled on the piano will certainly improve your abilities and speed as a composer.

If possible, I'd say go for both ways. But yeah, the AKAI MPC Keys 61 might be a bit overkill, if it's just for composing. Even as a pianist, I use a 200-300€ semi-weighted MIDI keyboard and am fine with it. You can get some inexpensive and great sounding samples for it.


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## brandowalk (Jul 12, 2022)

Scamper said:


> The way I see it, it's valuable to use both methods of composing - with and without the piano. Instead of hindering your progress, I think it's rather broadening your horizon. In the end, you're doing the same thing, composing and trying to find ideas, just in different ways.
> 
> Personally, when using StaffPad, I use only that and no instrument, which I like, because it does free up my mind. The process feels looser and more creative, whereas with a piano, it's much easier to fall into common patterns.
> Still, the piano is great to play around, try ideas quickly and plan everything more thoroughly. So, at home with my DAW, I use that. Also, getting more skilled on the piano will certainly improve your abilities and speed as a composer.
> ...


Well said. This is my experience as well. Writing without the keyboard can lead to some really great creativity! I end up writing things that I wouldn’t have if had used a keyboard.

That said, I find it’s easy to compose into a corner, not having a well thought out form and roadmap. The piano is helpful in that regard. So, yeah, using both methods is best for me.


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## Zero Music Knowledge (Jul 12, 2022)

Montisquirrel said:


> I have a piano at home and I don't want to miss it. For me and I guess for most composers the workflow is to create ideas at the piano and after that put these ideas into Staffpad (or into a DAW).
> 
> I just checked the price of the AKAI MPC 61 and it is 2000€. Are you sure you need that? Are you already able to play piano? I have a Yamaha Digital Piano which is awesome but costs half the price. Depending on your piano skills maybe get something cheaper and go for the 3rd party plugins of Staffpad because thats where Staffpad begins to shine.
> 
> Maybe you can share your composing experience to get a better picture about your needs


My piano skills are elementary to almost non existent not having touched one in years since my old Yamaha keyboard broke down on me. My composing experience was back in college when I took a music related course decades ago. Right now Im just getting into game development , interested in composing my own scores for my game and videos I will be making.
Thanks for the advice


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## ssnowe (Jul 12, 2022)

I find a keyboard allows me to quickly explore in real-time the direction I want to take with my music. Staffpad is good at documenting what I came up with.


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## emasters (Jul 12, 2022)

In some situations with StaffPad, I find it helpful with more complicated chords and voice leading, to have a piano keyboard try things out with. Not really playing it as a piano, but available to more quickly work out chord tones versus in StaffPad writing, playback, edit, etc. I got a Xkey Air (Bluetooth) keyboard and have it triggering the Ravenscroft 275 Piano app (Piano background app, StaffPad foreground app). Works fine and is a portable setup.


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## Insert.Coin (Jul 13, 2022)

It’s pretty important that you don’t skip any crucial steps here. StaffPad _*can be*_ great in the right hands - the same for a $2000 keyboard. I would argue that the more proficient you are on the keyboard, the better StaffPad ends up sounding, based on literally centuries of proof. Yes you can spend thousands on a keyboard, or a ton of $$ on StaffPad libraries, but the amount of money invested won’t get the intended results. The time invested spent learning the keyboard will get results.

I can tell you, ”yeah, I only use StaffPad to compose” but that comes after years and years of piano and piano proficiency/theory that I can fall back on, and even still it can sometimes lose focus and clarity, and become more-or-less an exercise in how to write good ideas without a coherent form, which can be handy in it’s own way.

If I were you. I’d get a cheap midi keyboard (M-audio key station 88 or similar) and an iPad (usb-c) with GarageBand (free); StaffPad would be last on the list. StaffPad is cool but learn how to sketch on piano, in a basic DAW like GarageBand. Learn what works, and why. You can record and visually analyze why those chords that shouldn’t work, did, and visa versa. That’s a solid starting point. There’s really no shortcut from learning the basics, extensively. 

Without that knowledge beforehand, StaffPad will be a distraction from what you really need to do and your pieces will end up having no direction, clarity, form, and frankly will be boring. You won’t be breaking new ground in the classical/hybrid score world with only basic keyboard proficiency and understanding. At best you’ll be sounding similar to someone that does have that proficency, the only difference is they’ll be able to write something in half the time as you.

While there’s always exceptions, I can’t think of any great composer that hasn’t spent the time (lessons or self-taught) to learn the piano or guitar - nowadays you might as well learn the basics of a DAW at the same time.


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## Zero Music Knowledge (Jul 13, 2022)

Insert.Coin said:


> It’s pretty important that you don’t skip any crucial steps here. StaffPad _*can be*_ great in the right hands - the same for a $2000 keyboard. I would argue that the more proficient you are on the keyboard, the better StaffPad ends up sounding, based on literally centuries of proof. Yes you can spend thousands on a keyboard, or a ton of $$ on StaffPad libraries, but the amount of money invested won’t get the intended results. The time invested spent learning the keyboard will get results.
> 
> I can tell you, ”yeah, I only use StaffPad to compose” but that comes after years and years of piano and piano proficiency/theory that I can fall back on, and even still it can sometimes lose focus and clarity, and become more-or-less an exercise in how to write good ideas without a coherent form, which can be handy in it’s own way.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this.
I already have Staffpad.
For some reason, your answer, which makes perfect sense to me and there is nothing about it I can disagree on, makes me more motivated to go the route of learning composing purely on the Staffpad (maybe I am feeling challenged) Odd. I hope I am not setting myself up for failure.


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## ChrisHarrison (Jul 15, 2022)

no one’s writing synced film music on that akai board. I have an Mpc and love it for making hip hop. But that’s it. 


If I were you, depending on your goals, I would use that money to buy a nice midi keyboard controller and key scape (the kawaii vpc-1 is that price). Or, spend wayyyyyyy less and get a hammer 88 and maybe Spitfire felt piano (free) or Alicia’s keys. Heck, you could get an ni 88 and Komplete bundle for that price. Play piano, practice piano. If you like writing sheet music by hand, you’ll enjoy staffpad. 

Honestly, that akai board is cool and all…. But if you’re really trying to finger drum, and you like the Mpc workflow, the mpc one or the live 2 are dope, and you can just plug in your own midi keyboard. 

That being said, the sounds in the akai are not at all meant for film scoring. They’re for edm and hip hop. I personally think the pianos and strings in it aren’t good sounding at all. Staffpad will give you that real orchestra sound, and you can just play piano to work out ideas/study harmony.


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## Zero Music Knowledge (Jul 16, 2022)

ChrisHarrison said:


> no one’s writing synced film music on that akai board. I have an Mpc and love it for making hip hop. But that’s it.
> 
> 
> If I were you, depending on your goals, I would use that money to buy a nice midi keyboard controller and key scape (the kawaii vpc-1 is that price). Or, spend wayyyyyyy less and get a hammer 88 and maybe Spitfire felt piano (free) or Alicia’s keys. Heck, you could get an ni 88 and Komplete bundle for that price. Play piano, practice piano. If you like writing sheet music by hand, you’ll enjoy staffpad.
> ...


Thanks, this reply sealed it for me when it comes to not getting the MPC Keys. Maybe I will just hold out and wait for the next Komplete Kontrol or some other keyboard Yamaha comes out with or when Native Instruments become fully compatible with Apple Silicon.
At least this give me time to try out my idea of learning composing purely on Staffpad.


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## ChrisHarrison (Jul 18, 2022)

For sure bro. Here’s the deal, if you have a grasp on writing with sheet music, then staffpad is dope. The built on sounds are amazing. 

Most of us are using Dorico (my preferred) or Sibelius or finale to write sheet music as they end up being really fast and have tons of great features that help things go quick. 

Staffpad is a small portion of people, but if you’re like me and have written a ton of physical sheet music, you’d dig it. 

As far as making mock-ups, or pro level recordings that you can submit to clients, everyone is using a full blown daw. This is like cubase or logic or studio one. They have very powerful midi control so you can get busy with the sounds and dial them in to sound real. 


As far as free and easy way to get down to business, the spitfire discover sounds are free, and realllllly good for free. Like super good. 

You could use GarageBand to host the sounds. Or if you’re on windows, reaper is free. 

As far as syncing to picture, for me cubase handles this best. Dorico also has this feature. I think reaper works with video too, never used it. 

Staffpad… I don’t think does that. 

If you’re really trying to write to film, then you’ll want a daw or at least, dorico. 

If you just want to write music for traditional instruments, staff pad is so cool. I’m lusting after a new iPad to just have a living score with staffpad. If I had to write a cue to picture though, the daw is necessary. I’ve yet to try using just Dorico with film, but I think it’s the only option with video sync and notation if that’s your main language.


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## rsg22 (Jul 18, 2022)

ChrisHarrison said:


> As far as making mock-ups, or pro level recordings that you can submit to clients, everyone is using a full blown daw. This is like cubase or logic or studio one. They have very powerful midi control so you can get busy with the sounds and dial them in to sound real.



This is generally true but there are folks on this forum and elsewhere that are getting great results by exporting stems from Staffpad and doing final mix/polish in a DAW.



ChrisHarrison said:


> As far as syncing to picture, for me cubase handles this best. Dorico also has this feature. I think reaper works with video too, never used it.
> 
> Staffpad… I don’t think does that.



The latest version of Staffpad added timecode support (haven't used it myself) in prep for full-blown video sync in the next version.



ChrisHarrison said:


> If you just want to write music for traditional instruments, staff pad is so cool.



Adding that Staffpad has support for audio tracks, so you can add whatever "non-traditional" tracks you want to a Staffpad score.


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## ChrisHarrison (Jul 18, 2022)

rsg22 said:


> This is generally true but there are folks on this forum and elsewhere that are getting great results by exporting stems from Staffpad and doing final mix/polish in a DAW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh man… game changer. I would looooove to write with staffpad synced to picture. That would be a dream.


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## barrychab (Jul 19, 2022)

its coming... the timecode works great. im using it so far just time pieces


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## Voider (Sep 15, 2022)

Isn't the whole point of Staffpad to draw in notes with a pen to practice composing *without* any other modern tools like a keyboard, but rather become better at imagining the sound and spend more focused time on the actual notes? At least that's how I thought about it. I don't own it but I would like in the future and that's the main reason for it - get away from the keyboard and screen and just compose with actually drawing notes, just with the ability to play it back if needed - but still as close as possible to pen & paper.


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## jadi (Sep 15, 2022)

Voider said:


> Isn't the whole point of Staffpad to draw in notes with a pen to practice composing *without* any other modern tools like a keyboard, but rather become better at imagining the sound and spend more focused time on the actual notes? At least that's how I thought about it. I don't own it but I would like in the future and that's the main reason for it - get away from the keyboard and screen and just compose with actually drawing notes, just with the ability to play it back if needed - but still as close as possible to pen & paper.


I think the samen, focus on the propper soundquality of written notes. And make playing techniques also sound realistic


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## mopsiflopsi (Sep 15, 2022)

I rarely use the piano these days. In the beginning I just hum some tunes, or sometimes just sing in my mind. Choice of harmony comes from the melody and the overall feel I want to go for, and even then it’s probably more like choosing a mode and following functional harmony to get started. Once I get into the first few bars, I can usually hear in my head where it needs to go next. 

When I do use the piano it’s more for coming up with melodic variations on the original idea. In which case I just load up the korg module app on the iPad and start tapping. It’s not meant to be a recital, but just auditioning intervallic alternatives that might not readily occur to me. 

This way I can stay focused, without having to put the iPad down.


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## Saxer (Sep 15, 2022)

It's important to have at least some piano (or guitar) skills. You must be able to memorize and imagine chord progressions and know the way how they are built and related. Otherwise all composing is just random try and error with a tendency to the least.
StaffPad is a bit like a handwriting text program that can read back to you the text you have written. But you have to know the language you are writing in. You have to be able to talk in that language. I find it extremely important to play music and play music together with other musicians. Music is communication and composing is a kind of story telling based on that communication. You have actors and they interact with each other. So I don't think you can really 'learn' composition on StaffPad. StaffPad is your text app for musical storytelling like Microsoft Word for authors. It's a great app to write down what you have learned in real life.


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