# Studiologic SL88 Grand VS. Roland A-88 MkII



## etudes

Bit of a weird way to introduce the new Roland controller to the forums here, but this is where I'm at just now. I'm in the market for a new 88-key controller and could use some feedback if people know about all those options out there. The SL-88 and A-88 MkII seem like the top two options for me and the center of this thread, but I'm open to other options too.

Important things for me:

Best piano action possible (subjective, but maybe not as much in the limited MIDI-keyboard world)
Shortest height (for a desk build with a keyboard tray)
A single good expressive CC control
Quietest physical mechanics (maybe a bit less important, but a big plus)
I made a list of a bunch of keyboard specs over in this other thread, if it interests anyone. Didn't see any responses there.

Some other thoughts & questions:

SL88 XY sticks seem a little tiny, can't find much info on them. Is there a verdict on how good of a mod-wheel replacement they are?
Any info on the PHA-4 keybed in the Roland A-88 MkII? Is it comparable to the TP-40 on the SL88 Grand?
A-88 MkII has MIDI 2.0 support
A-88 MkII also has knobs and pads and is 10 lbs lighter, but those things aren't as important to me.


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## BassClef

One week ago I bought the Studio Logic SL88 Studio... identical to the Grand model except for the keybed. Mine is $400 cheaper as it uses a less expensive Fatar weighted, hammer action. I am not a trained pianist... just a hacker. I do have an actual grand piano in the house and the SL88 Studio is much stiffer action but fine for me. I was using ( and going to sell) a 61 key Nektar Panorama P6, with semi-weighted action, and with the SL88 I have much better control over dynamics, especially at the lower levels.

The 3 mini joy sticks are going to take some getting used to. They give you 6 controllers to work with, 3 with springs and 3 without. I have been using stick 2 "Y" for expression but not liking that. because of their small sizer, I've been using them with one finger placed on top, but they are slippery. So I may try a small rubber pad on top for grip. But I'm going to try stick 3 "X&Y" next for dynamics and expression using it (left-right) pinched between my thumb and forefinger. Note... dynamics and expression are not well suited on a spring loaded stick because they recenter upon release.

I knew going in that I may never be satisfied with the sticks, so I am prepared to look at small hardware controllers like the Studio Logic Mixface, or software controllers "faders" on iPad, or a breath controller.


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## yves

I was at NAMM last week and tried both of them .

I was trained on acoustic piano for many years and started playing at 8 years old .

The action is very important for me as well . But what is also important is the relationship between the controller and the actual sound , the velocity curves , the latency of the audio card etc..
For example , I tried the new Roland controller at NAMM at the Roland booth .
I liked the feel of the keys , the fake ivory finish etc .. but they had it hooked up to a Mac mini and a Roland soundcanvas soft synth with a piano sound and the feel was really sluggish .. probably due to the fact that they didn't really paid attention to the audio latency settings .

But I think that with proper attention to details , the Roland A-88 Mk 2 should be fine .

It has also 3 pedal inputs that are assigned to whatever cc and the pads that can also send cc control besides note numbers .

What bugs me is the pitch / mod wheel joystick .. the fact that the mod wheel can't stay at 127 unless you hold the joystick in position , is a drawback as far as i'm concerned.

I haven't investigated on Midi 2.0 but i will look it up . It's also bus powered via USB-C

I also liked the Studiologic SL-88 grand action ... I usually hate Fatar weighted keypads but the TP-40WOOD is good . I own the Arturia Keylab 88 and it sports the Fatar TP-100 and I absolutely hate it .
It's sluggish and not fun to play at all .

The new Arturia Keylab 88 has the same keybed ... I tried it also at NAMM .

Regarding the new workstations , i gave the new Nord Piano a spin and that felt great !! having the sound engine built in and optimized makes it a breeze to play and also musically relevant .

Same with the Yamaha Montage 8

The market for 88 note controllers is small.. there's not many options out there.. But I think the new Roland and Studiologic should be contenders for around a Grand .

I'm not crazy about the Kawai VPC-1 .. There's a tread on the Pianoteq forum that shows irregularities between notes at the same velocities etc..

best regards


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## Greg

"Best piano action possible
Quietest physical mechanics"

I went with the Nord piano 4. Something about it is just perfect and I couldn't find any cheaper options that feel the same. Plus when you crank up your buffer, having a zero latency piano patch to knock out ideas is extremely helpful


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## BassClef

yves said:


> I was at NAMM last week and tried both of them .
> 
> I was trained on acoustic piano for many years and started playing at 8 years old .
> 
> The action is very important for me as well . But what is also important is the relationship between the controller and the actual sound , the velocity curves , the latency of the audio card etc..
> For example , I tried the new Roland controller at NAMM at the Roland booth .
> I liked the feel of the keys , the fake ivory finish etc .. but they had it hooked up to a Mac mini and a Roland soundcanvas soft synth with a piano sound and the feel was really sluggish .. probably due to the fact that they didn't really paid attention to the audio latency settings .
> 
> But I think that with proper attention to details , the Roland A-88 Mk 2 should be fine .
> 
> It has also 3 pedal inputs that are assigned to whatever cc and the pads that can also send cc control besides note numbers .
> 
> What bugs me is the pitch / mod wheel joystick .. the fact that the mod wheel can't stay at 127 unless you hold the joystick in position , is a drawback as far as i'm concerned.
> 
> I haven't investigated on Midi 2.0 but i will look it up . It's also bus powered via USB-C
> 
> I also liked the Studiologic SL-88 grand action ... I usually hate Fatar weighted keypads but the TP-40WOOD is good . I own the Arturia Keylab 88 and it sports the Fatar TP-100 and I absolutely hate it .
> It's sluggish and not fun to play at all .
> 
> The new Arturia Keylab 88 has the same keybed ... I tried it also at NAMM .
> 
> Regarding the new workstations , i gave the new Nord Piano a spin and that felt great !! having the sound engine built in and optimized makes it a breeze to play and also musically relevant .
> 
> Same with the Yamaha Montage 8
> 
> The market for 88 note controllers is small.. there's not many options out there.. But I think the new Roland and Studiologic should be contenders for around a Grand .
> 
> I'm not crazy about the Kawai VPC-1 .. There's a tread on the Pianoteq forum that shows irregularities between notes at the same velocities etc..
> 
> best regards



As I said, the SL88 Studio (Fatar TP100RL) is pretty stiff and I am considering returning it as a swap for the Grand which my dealer will allow. How would you describe the difference?


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## dohm

I have the SL88 Grand as my main controller. I was using a Nord Stage 3 88, but was not happy with it as a midi controller and I always need to remove it from my desk when I wanted to take it to a band rehearsal. The SL88 Grand is much better in my opinion. Now, I am a fairly serious piano player and have a 7 foot 6 inch Yamaha S7X grand piano in my house that I play every day. It has the most perfect action of any piano ever made, imho. Is the SL88 comparable? Absolutely not! But, it is enjoyable to play and the response when using software libraries is very good. I typically use Spectrasonics Keyscape for playing piano at my composing desk. In general, I really like the SL88 Grand and it has a low height that fits nicely in my desk. I even like the little joysticks.


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## mavrix

I have the SL88 Studio which is great for me. It is a stiffer action than my Yamaha Baby Grand but it works great and feels natural enough for me. I don't even try to use the XY sticks for modulation and have a separate fader setup for that. I bought it knowing that I could return it without issue to my retailer but have no complaints at all. At NAMM they introduced a new little mixing/control module that integrates with it to some degree and will retail for around $250 - its nice as it has a magnetic strip to latch on to the top of the keyboard.


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## whinecellar

Man, I’ve been a die-hard Yamaha CP300 guy for about 10 years. Just bought a brand new one and to my horror, Yamaha completely changed the action on the new ones… It is heavier and tedious to play - likely because of RSI issues. I had surgery on both hands last year due to 30 years of pounding on these things, so I’m going to sell it in favor of a much lighter action. 

Having said that, I ran around NAMM over the weekend trying all the contenders I could find. Much to my surprise, I really loved the StudioLogic SL88 Grand. It’s crazy to me how many people have said the “Studio” version is less sluggish - the Grand felt much more natural and faster to me, while the Studio felt slow and “squishy.” 

I’ve had a Roland RD2000 for about a year as well, and while I like playing it for certain piano parts, the action is too sharp and squared off for my taste, and not fast enough for programming a lot of what we do here. 

So, the SL88 Grand is probably my top contender at the moment for my main weighted action. YMMV, but it’s worth trying them all if you can!


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## etudes

Thanks so much for all the feedback everyone. Sounds like that SL88 Grand really might be the one. I just don't understand why these companies don't just put a regular old ding dang mod wheel in their keyboard. I just need one good expression controller.

I'm also realizing I could get the same keybed via a Doepfer LMK2+, plus a mod wheel and a shorter profile, but the trade-off for what I've read is very noisy action is pretty iffy for me.



yves said:


> I was at NAMM last week and tried both of them .
> 
> I was trained on acoustic piano for many years and started playing at 8 years old .
> 
> The action is very important for me as well . But what is also important is the relationship between the controller and the actual sound , the velocity curves , the latency of the audio card etc..
> For example , I tried the new Roland controller at NAMM at the Roland booth .
> I liked the feel of the keys , the fake ivory finish etc .. but they had it hooked up to a Mac mini and a Roland soundcanvas soft synth with a piano sound and the feel was really sluggish .. probably due to the fact that they didn't really paid attention to the audio latency settings .



I'm the same, trained all my life on real pianos, so action is super important to me. Really curious if that sluggish feel was due to software stuff and not the controller itself. That A-88 MkII really does seem like such a great option, but only if the action and playability lives up to the SL88 Grand.




yves said:


> What bugs me is the pitch / mod wheel joystick .. the fact that the mod wheel can't stay at 127 unless you hold the joystick in position , is a drawback as far as i'm concerned.



You didn't happen to ask about that, did you? I wonder if that was a faulty unit?




Greg said:


> "Best piano action possible
> Quietest physical mechanics"
> 
> I went with the Nord piano 4. Something about it is just perfect and I couldn't find any cheaper options that feel the same. Plus when you crank up your buffer, having a zero latency piano patch to knock out ideas is extremely helpful



So wish I could afford one of those. But besides the price, I just have a wariness buying something designed for stage performance to be used as a MIDI controller, just because my current Yamaha keyboard is a little strange with the MIDI messages it sends to my computer.


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## BassClef

I just set up a swap... ordered the SL88Grand... shipping today... after it arrives and I check it out, I’ll return the “Studio” for full credit.


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## dsblais

I really like my SL88 Grand for its action and the feel of the keys. I also appreciate the little touches like the laptop holder and so on. However, I find the joysticks less than a joy. They are arguably better than a wheel, but nearly any other controller (foot, etc) would be still better in my opinion.


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## yves

whinecellar said:


> Man, I’ve been a die-hard Yamaha CP300 guy for about 10 years. Just bought a brand new one and to my horror, Yamaha completely changed the action on the new ones… It is heavier and tedious to play - likely because of RSI issues. I had surgery on both hands last year due to 30 years of pounding on these things, so I’m going to sell it in favor of a much lighter action.
> 
> Having said that, I ran around NAMM over the weekend trying all the contenders I could find. Much to my surprise, I really loved the StudioLogic SL88 Grand. It’s crazy to me how many people have said the “Studio” version is less sluggish - the Grand felt much more natural and faster to me, while the Studio felt slow and “squishy.”
> 
> I’ve had a Roland RD2000 for about a year as well, and while I like playing it for certain piano parts, the action is too sharp and squared off for my taste, and not fast enough for programming a lot of what we do here.
> 
> So, the SL88 Grand is probably my top contender at the moment for my main weighted action. YMMV, but it’s worth trying them all if you can!



The SL88 Grand felt also easier to play for me than the SL88 Studio . I think it also felt better than the new Roland one as well . I think the joysticks can be useful and you have 3 of them that can send different cc's


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## yves

etudes said:


> Thanks so much for all the feedback everyone. Sounds like that SL88 Grand really might be the one. I just don't understand why these companies don't just put a regular old ding dang mod wheel in their keyboard. I just need one good expression controller.
> 
> I'm also realizing I could get the same keybed via a Doepfer LMK2+, plus a mod wheel and a shorter profile, but the trade-off for what I've read is very noisy action is pretty iffy for me.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm the same, trained all my life on real pianos, so action is super important to me. Really curious if that sluggish feel was due to software stuff and not the controller itself. That A-88 MkII really does seem like such a great option, but only if the action and playability lives up to the SL88 Grand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't happen to ask about that, did you? I wonder if that was a faulty unit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So wish I could afford one of those. But besides the price, I just have a wariness buying something designed for stage performance to be used as a MIDI controller, just because my current Yamaha keyboard is a little strange with the MIDI messages it sends to my computer.




I'm pretty sure the problem was with the buffer size they had set up for the NAMM show . Probably an oversight on their behalf.. I tried to ask but couldn't get anyone from Roland to talk to . I only did an in & out on thursday and i was short on time .


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## Tfis

I like the SLGrand very much, but for controlling stuff i use an akai mpd232.


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## etudes

yves said:


> I'm pretty sure the problem was with the buffer size they had set up for the NAMM show . Probably an oversight on their behalf.. I tried to ask but couldn't get anyone from Roland to talk to . I only did an in & out on thursday and i was short on time .


Ahh ok, no worries.


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## etudes

Does anyone know of any locations that allow you to test these MIDI keyboards? The SL88 Grand and the Roland A-88 MkII in particular. I'm in Los Angeles, but I don't know of any stores that actually have demo models for MIDI keyboards, especially specialized ones like these.


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## BassClef

Order both from Sweetwater, try them both, send one back.


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## etudes

BassClef said:


> Order both from Sweetwater, try them both, send one back.


Ah man, that's a lot. Also, it looks like Sweetwater won't cover the shipping cost to return it, which I imagine won't be cheap for something that huge and heavy. There's gotta be an easier way to test a couple keyboards in LA.


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## rrichard63

etudes said:


> Ah man, that's a lot. Also, it looks like Sweetwater won't cover the shipping cost to return it, which I imagine won't be cheap for something that huge and heavy. There's gotta be an easier way to test a couple keyboards in LA.


Check the Roland and Studio Logic websites to see if they list retail dealers. There must be a lot of music stores in Los Angeles.

Then call ahead to make sure the retailer has the model you want to test in stock.


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## Dewdman42

etudes said:


> Ah man, that's a lot. Also, it looks like Sweetwater won't cover the shipping cost to return it, which I imagine won't be cheap for something that huge and heavy. There's gotta be an easier way to test a couple keyboards in LA.



buy from guitar center online then you can return to local store if you need to. I love Sweetwater and buy from them often but certain things like this it’s safer to ya e a local return option


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## EvilDragon

Just be aware that no DAW supports MIDI 2.0 as of yet, and who knows how long will the wait be for them to catch up.


As for SL88 Grand... Yeah those joysticks were a miss. But you can get this to match it: https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/mixface/


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## BassClef

etudes said:


> Ah man, that's a lot. Also, it looks like Sweetwater won't cover the shipping cost to return it, which I imagine won't be cheap for something that huge and heavy. There's gotta be an easier way to test a couple keyboards in LA.



Sweetwater is a large company that has shipping rate contracts with major carriers who give them much cheaper rates than you can get on your own. For my return (retuned one of two keyboards I ordered from them) they set up a prepaid shipping label for me AT THEIR REDUCED RATES with FedEx and then charged me for the shipping. So it only cost me $30 to return one of the two keyboards. Both keyboards came with free shipping.


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## etudes

rrichard63 said:


> Check the Roland and Studio Logic websites to see if they list retail dealers. There must be a lot of music stores in Los Angeles.
> 
> Then call ahead to make sure the retailer has the model you want to test in stock.



I appreciate the tip, but, I tried just that, called nearly every pro audio store around the valley and the Hollywood area, no one has 88-key weighted MIDI controllers on the floor to test. Oh well, guess I'm stuck buying two and returning one.




Dewdman42 said:


> buy from guitar center online then you can return to local store if you need to. I love Sweetwater and buy from them often but certain things like this it’s safer to ya e a local return option


That's a pretty good idea, that'll save me the shipping costs.




EvilDragon said:


> Just be aware that no DAW supports MIDI 2.0 as of yet, and who knows how long will the wait be for them to catch up.
> 
> 
> As for SL88 Grand... Yeah those joysticks were a miss. But you can get this to match it: https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/mixface/


Shoot, that's good to know, thanks for the feedback. I've looked at that mixface, not sure I really need or want the extra stuff sitting on my desk (this keyboard will fit on a tray for a desk I'm building, no extra room in there).



BassClef said:


> Sweetwater is a large company that has shipping rate contracts with major carriers who give them much cheaper rates than you can get on your own. For my return (retuned one of two keyboards I ordered from them) they set up a prepaid shipping label for me AT THEIR REDUCED RATES with FedEx and then charged me for the shipping. So it only cost me $30 to return one of the two keyboards. Both keyboards came with free shipping.


I think I might go for something more local like Guitar Center to save the extra hassle, but good to know for the future, thank you.


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## BassClef

EvilDragon said:


> Just be aware that no DAW supports MIDI 2.0 as of yet, and who knows how long will the wait be for them to catch up.
> 
> 
> As for SL88 Grand... Yeah those joysticks were a miss. But you can get this to match it: https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/mixface/




I have a MixFace on the way to mate up with my SL88Grand.


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## matvey

Any other updates from anyone with that specific comparison? I’m faced with basically the same choice (though also considering RD-88 since it has a bunch of nice sounds for only $200 more), and Sweetwater is a 4-hour drive away  

I’ve played the Rolands that had the SuperNatural feel, whatever that means, and they did feel/sound pretty good. I’m wondering how the SL88 Grand compares.


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## etudes

matvey said:


> Any other updates from anyone with that specific comparison? I’m faced with basically the same choice (though also considering RD-88 since it has a bunch of nice sounds for only $200 more), and Sweetwater is a 4-hour drive away
> 
> I’ve played the Rolands that had the SuperNatural feel, whatever that means, and they did feel/sound pretty good. I’m wondering how the SL88 Grand compares.



I haven't bought anything yet, but I plan to buy both the SL88 Grand and the A-88 MkII and do a thorough comparison myself, and then return one of them. Just trying to sell my current Yamaha keyboard first, which is proving to be tough. Will absolutely post my thoughts here when I get them. Don't hold your breath though, it might not be for another month.


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## ALittleNightMusic

Iswhatitis said:


> I have a Mixface and really like it as a MIDI controller.



Just got one as well along with an SL73 Studio. So far, so good! Stiff keys but I think most of these Fatar controllers are like that.


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## BassClef

I also like the SL-Mixface with my SL88Grand. I keep mine on the desktop rather than on the SL88Grand. Then I can rest my wrist on the desk in front of it and work the faders with my wrist and fingers. I find that easier than using long faders where I am more likely to use my whole arm for control.


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## jamwerks

I wanted great action, a small foot-print, etc. like the OP, and went with a Roland D1, and am quite happy. I wanted minimal to no controlers also having that elsewhere.


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## Dewdman42

You mean Korg?


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## Joshua Day

I bought the SL88 Studio at the end of last year and my impressions of it are that the keys are a little sluggish, but I can't seem to find ANYTHING with 88 keys that has synth action. The feel is great for playing piano parts, but if you want to do finger drumming and playing in orchestral runs and fast brass lines... lots of virtual instrument playing for non piano-like instruments, it's going to give you a minor headache.

The joysticks were the selling point though for me. I LOVE the third stick which is completely free moving. I can program the Y axis to CC11 and the X axis to CC1 and move the joystick diagonally to control things like vibrato and expression at the same time. This is amazing for legato wind and string lines. On my particular SL88, there is a problem with the black shield just beneath the joystick port though...it seems to be catching on something so if I let go of the stick it will spring back a little. If I get hacky one day though I might be able to disassemble things and fix this.


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## whinecellar

Joshua Day said:


> ...I can't seem to find ANYTHING with 88 keys that has synth action. The feel is great for playing piano parts, but if you want to do finger drumming and playing in orchestral runs and fast brass lines... lots of virtual instrument playing for non piano-like instruments, it's going to give you a minor headache.



There are at least (4) semi/synth-weighted 88 note controllers on the market:
- StudioLogic Numa Compact 2/2x
- Nektar LX88+ and upcoming GXP88
- M-Audio/Alesis Keystation mk2
- new Arturia Keylab 88 Essential 

I tried all 4 and just grabbed the Arturia. I’m in the same boat as you, plus dealing with RSI issues post-surgery after 30+ years of banging on heavily weighted keys. I posted a mini-review in another thread - here ya go:






New Roland A-88mk2 is ALMOST perfect


I couldn’t agree more.




vi-control.net


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## Joshua Day

whinecellar said:


> There are at least (4) semi/synth-weighted 88 note controllers on the market:
> - StudioLogic Numa Compact 2/2x
> - Nektar LX88+ and upcoming GXP88
> - M-Audio/Alesis Keystation mk2
> - new Arturia Keylab 88 Essential



I should have joined this forum before buying stuff. lol


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## whinecellar

Joshua Day said:


> I should have joined this forum before buying stuff. lol



Then again, this forum is bad for instigating the “need” to buy stuff 😂


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## ratherbirds

etudes said:


> Any info on the PHA-4 keybed in the Roland A-88 MkII? Is it comparable to the TP-40 on the SL88 Grand?








*PHA-4 STANDARD*
This is the key action featured on Roland’s entry-level and intermediate-level digital pianos, such as the instruments in the FP-series (aside from the FP-90), RP-series, etc.

The PHA in the name stands for *Progressive Hammer Action*, which attempts to emulate the graded feel of real pianos.






On an actual piano, the lower notes are heavier and harder to press, whereas the upper keys are lighter. The PHA key actions simulate this feel by using variable weights and tends to do a good job in general.

Despite being on the lower-end of Roland’s key action selection, the PHA-4 Standard action feels surprisingly good and is arguably the best entry-level hammer action on the market.


The keytops feature synthetic *ivory* and a matte finish to prevent slippage, and *triple sensors* ensure that keypresses are detected accurately, even on rapid repetitions.

*PHA-50*
The PHA-50 action has succeeded the previous _PHA-4 Premium_ and _PHA-4 Concert_ key actions used in high-end Roland instruments.

This is a significant upgrade over the PHA-4 Standard action and incorporates a hybrid material construction featuring *real wood* to make it feel even more realistic.




PHA-50 Hybrid Wood/Plastic Keyboard

The PHA-50 action also uses *triple sensors* and they are tuned to be even more reactive to velocity, making the overall playing experience a lot more enjoyable.

Many keyboardists love the PHA-50 action and I’m also a fan. While it leans towards being lighter than I prefer, it still feels great and* versatile*, covering just about any kind of sound you can imagine.

*HYBRID GRAND KEYBOARD*
This is a variation on the previously discussed PHA-50, featured exclusively on the *LX700 series* digital pianos.

The main differences are *longer keys* and, as a result, longer key pivot lengths. This reduces fatigue and makes playing the keys a lot more enjoyable across extended periods of time.






The Hybrid Grand action also incorporates a stabilizing pin, making vertical key movement smoother and quieter.

In terms of actual feel, I’d say the Hybrid Grand action feels close to the real deal, having the heft and depth you’d expect from a real grand piano (which is what the LX700 series is trying to recreate).


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## ratherbirds

https://www.pianodreamers.com/roland-digital-pianos/

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...oland-pha-4-standard-premium-and-concert.html






https://xiaovida.imgbb.com/


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## ratherbirds

Hi, I have a Roland A88 (mk 1) with an ivory feel G keybed. I like it because it is very silent. Its defect is that it is not very reactive on fast notes and that it lacks the modulation wheel. The presence of a third sensor and 8 rotary buttons seem to correct a lot of things on the new a88 mk 2


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## PaulieDC

BassClef said:


> I also like the SL-Mixface with my SL88Grand. I keep mine on the desktop rather than on the SL88Grand. Then I can rest my wrist on the desk in front of it and work the faders with my wrist and fingers. I find that easier than using long faders where I am more likely to use my whole arm for control.


You just posted a picture of how I want my setup, I just didn't know what that was yet. Thanks!


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## BassClef

PaulieDC said:


> You just posted a picture of how I want my setup, I just didn't know what that was yet. Thanks!



Carpeted floor, so the keyboard stand slides easlisy. The SL88 worked perfectly because all other 88 note controllers were too wide with the pitch bend and mod wheels on the side. So when I am not using the keyboard, It just slides completely under the desk.


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## ALittleNightMusic

Joshua Day said:


> I bought the SL88 Studio at the end of last year and my impressions of it are that the keys are a little sluggish, but I can't seem to find ANYTHING with 88 keys that has synth action. The feel is great for playing piano parts, but if you want to do finger drumming and playing in orchestral runs and fast brass lines... lots of virtual instrument playing for non piano-like instruments, it's going to give you a minor headache.
> 
> The joysticks were the selling point though for me. I LOVE the third stick which is completely free moving. I can program the Y axis to CC11 and the X axis to CC1 and move the joystick diagonally to control things like vibrato and expression at the same time. This is amazing for legato wind and string lines. On my particular SL88, there is a problem with the black shield just beneath the joystick port though...it seems to be catching on something so if I let go of the stick it will spring back a little. If I get hacky one day though I might be able to disassemble things and fix this.



This is my current concern with the SL73. I love having the piano feel in front of me but it is annoying for drumming and faster parts. Contemplating going back to my S61 in front of me and digital Yamaha piano to my side. My third joystick does the same thing btw.


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## ratherbirds

https://www.roland.com/fr/products/rd-88/

for 200 euro more than the a88, there is the Roland RD 88 which has better ergonomics, but without the midi 2.


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## etudes

ratherbirds said:


> https://www.roland.com/fr/products/rd-88/
> 
> for 200 euro more than the a88, there is the Roland RD 88 which has better ergonomics, but without the midi 2.



That looks pretty cool, but it looks like that one has the same exact keybed as the A-88 MkII, plus it's a good amount thicker/taller. I need something as short as possible, to reduce the leg space it takes up and desk height required for this desk build I'm planning.


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## Gil

Hello!

I have the same choice to do between these 2 keyboards and gonna test them both in the next days, so I was wondering if there are any other comments about them?

From what I've read in this thread there are not much feedbacks about the Roland A-88 MKII: anyone has more feedbacks?

A note about problems I've read about StudioLogic SL88 Grand (falling keys and screen dimming): from what I've asked in this wonderful forum, it seems that the problems don't seem to be as widespread as I thought (or even non-existent on a few years old and newly bought ones). Please don't hesitate to comment here if you have other feelings about it.

If you have any comment about StudioLogic MixFace, you're also welcome 

Thanks and take care!


----------



## Joshua Day

Hi Gil,

I have been using my SL88 Studio for about six months, and I have to say I like it for the most part. It's just a nice keyboard and does what it's supposed to without all of the sliders and frills. A cool feature is that you can set up different programs and switch between them using the jog wheel. For instance, I have P001 set to normal, and P002 set to a different transposition. I needed to quickly switch between the two for a particular project, and I'm not very good at playing in some keys. 

There is a clunky piece of software you can put on your computer to control all of the keyboard's parameters, but getting it to connect to the keyboard can sometimes be confusing. You can make fine adjustments to the keyboard's zones and sensitivity using it, though. (I find that the default sensitivity of the keys is very difficult to reach max velocity. Some classical pianists may appreciate this though!) I turn off all of the zones except for the main one, because I think the zones are likely more helpful in live situations. I'm just connecting to a PC in my studio.

I primarily use the keyboard for inputting orchestral parts and other MIDI. Even in fast passages the keys respond pretty well, but they are definitely a little more sluggish because they are weighted. For playing piano parts though, can't beat it. Great price for a full 88 key controller that feels almost like a real piano. I highly recommend the Ravenscroft 275 from VI Labs as your go-to piano library, by the way!

The joysticks are awesome. My only gripe is that the sticks and travel distance are so tiny, I often find myself inputting max levels.

Josh


----------



## willie45

Timely thread to read for me. I have recently bought a S61 and am fairly happy with it. heT only thing is I don't like they synth-type feel particularly and I detect a difference in playing between the white and black keys. It might be my imagination but it feels pronounced to me.

I am considering exchanging for an S88 to get closer to a piano feel but I'm not sure. I've read both that the S88 feels unlike a piano and is considered 'sluggish" but on the other hand I've read it feels great like a grand piano. I'm not sure what slugging really means an I wonder if it might be just the type of feel I'd want compared with the usual "synth" feel people seem to like.

The shops aren't demoing yet and the options need to eb ordered in anyway so I'm buying without testing.

I have a Roland Digtal Piano with PHA - 4 Concert action which I like. When I bought it I assumed I'd be buying a Clavinova but preferred the Roland action by miles. I'm wondering if the S88 would get close to this or not. If it did I'd snap it up in an instant.


----------



## Joshua Day

willie45 said:


> I'm not sure what slugging really means an I wonder if it might be just the type of feel I'd want compared with the usual "synth" feel people seem to like.



By "sluggish" I meant the feel of the weighted key when I really need some fast synth action to play in fast ostinatos and brass double tonguing for composing orchestral music. However, the SL88 feels great as a piano for piano sake, which is what you're looking for. There are 2 variants of the SL88 - the Grand and the Studio. The Studio is what I have, and I've heard it feels less like a piano than the Grand, but is still weighted almost correctly. The Studio does not have graded hammer action like some stage pianos do (higher keys respond faster than lower keys), which is super realistic. I don't know off the top of my head if the Grand does though. The SL88 Studio or Grand are a good buy if you are looking for piano feel. The Grand is more expensive.


----------



## willie45

Hi Joshua. Thank you. I appreciate what you mean but it's hard to quantify how I'd react to it. Sluggish might be just what I'm after. I guess I'm worried about "sponginess" rather than sluggishness which I'm good with. I might just have muddied the waters further though  

The keyboard I'm looking at is the NI KK S88 which is expensive but has a software package useful to me which offsets the cost a fair bit. 

I'm I a bit of a quandary I keep hearing negative things about it and I'm not able to try it out right now. My return window is closing on the S61 though.


----------



## spacepluk

I also noticed when I bought the S61 that the black keys felt different. But after a while I got used to it and now it doesn’t bother me at all.


----------



## PaulieDC

willie45 said:


> I'm I a bit of a quandary I keep hearing negative things about it and I'm not able to try it out right now. My return window is closing on the S61 though.


Here's Guy Michelmore's take on the KK S88, FYI. I was surprised how much integration there is with DAW and Libraries. Man, if it just came with the Fatar TP/40 Wood keybed instead of the TP/100...

S88 Unboxing and Review


----------



## Gil

Hello,
I just went back from a music shop where I've been testing the Roland A-88 MK2 and the StudioLogic SL88 Grand and I bought the SL88 Grand.
What makes me choose the StudioLogic is the keyboard touch (a really personal feeling but I found it really better than the A-88 MK2 one) and the 3 joysticks that I find more useful than the Roland ones (even if I also get a MixFace).
Thanks to all the people that sent feedbacks!


----------



## rrichard63

Joshua Day said:


> The joysticks are awesome. My only gripe is that the sticks and travel distance are so tiny, I often find myself inputting max levels.


That's my main issue with the Studiologic keyboards. Has anybody who uses one been able to train their fingers to reliably produce pitch bends of (close to) a half step and a whole step using these joysticks?


----------



## Joshua Day

rrichard63 said:


> That's my main issue with the Studiologic keyboards. Has anybody who uses one been able to train their fingers to reliably produce pitch bends of (close to) a half step and a whole step using these joysticks?



A lot of VSTi's let you specify the interval of the pitch bend. You might be able to do this with the SL88's software and settings too.


----------



## Tronam

It's comforting to know I'm not the only one struggling to find the perfect 88 key weighted controller. For me the keyboard action is the most important thing of all, but it's the most difficult to review since everyone's hands and muscle memory (including strength) is so different. Without stores nearby with large showrooms for trying them out in person it's been this vague journey of reading countless people's descriptions online of how they feel. What I want to avoid most is a "heavy" action. I've never had the space for a grand piano, so for years I've been playing on an upright and grown so accustomed to its lighter touch. One of our stores did have some of the Yamaha GHS digital pianos which felt a bit lighter than most, but the Nord Stage 3 on display felt unpleasantly stiff and sluggish with more resistance than I'd like. StudioLogic SL88 is very tempting, but if its action is like the Nord Stage I'm a bit hesitant. I'm assuming SL88 and SL88 Grand are both Fatar keybeds? Anyone know which versions are in each?


----------



## etudes

Tronam said:


> It's comforting to know I'm not the only one struggling to find the perfect 88 key weighted controller. For me the keyboard action is the most important thing of all, but it's the most difficult to review since everyone's hands and muscle memory (including strength) is so different. Without stores nearby with large showrooms for trying them out in person it's been this vague journey of reading countless people's descriptions online of how they feel. What I want to avoid most is a "heavy" action. I've never had the space for a grand piano, so for years I've been playing on an upright and grown so accustomed to its lighter touch. One of our stores did have some of the Yamaha GHS digital pianos which felt a bit lighter than most, but the Nord Stage 3 on display felt unpleasantly stiff and sluggish with more resistance than I'd like. StudioLogic SL88 is very tempting, but if its action is like the Nord Stage I'm a bit hesitant. I'm assuming SL88 and SL88 Grand are both Fatar keybeds? Anyone know which versions are in each?



SL88 Studio: TP/100LR
SL88 Grand: TP/40WOOD

I'm finally in possession of both the SL88 Grand and the Roland A88 MkII to test run. After playing with both for awhile, I will almost definitely be returning the A88 MkII. I'm actually pretty torn, but I think in the end, it's pretty clear that the SL88 has the better action. However, the A88 has a better default velocity curve in my opinion, it felt a good amount better to play on in how the notes end up sounding and feeling in my performance. I spent awhile trying to match the velocity curve making my own custom one on the SL88, and I think I got it pretty close.

That's just my initial two cents, going to try to make a full review and comparison of the two as well. Regarding "heavy" action, I think it's kind of interesting, because you could argue the A88 has a lighter action than the SL88, sort of, but the A88 is also mushier, and it doesn't end up giving the feeling of a real piano the same way the SL88 does. Then again, the A88 might actually be closer to an upright... It's really hard to say, and I don't think there is a way to describe all the nuance of the two actions without playing it yourself.

Either way though, I think they're both really great actions at the end of the day, and you'd do great with either one.


----------



## spacepluk

You can probably get used to any high-end action if the rest of the keyboard meets your needs. I'm still pretty happy about my switch from the VPC1 to the SL88 Grand. The Kawai has a slight edge because of the escapement but I prefer the SL88 Grand action overall.


----------



## Tronam

etudes said:


> SL88 Studio: TP/100LR
> SL88 Grand: TP/40WOOD
> 
> I'm finally in possession of both the SL88 Grand and the Roland A88 MkII to test run. After playing with both for awhile, I will almost definitely be returning the A88 MkII. I'm actually pretty torn, but I think in the end, it's pretty clear that the SL88 has the better action. However, the A88 has a better default velocity curve in my opinion, it felt a good amount better to play on in how the notes end up sounding and feeling in my performance. I spent awhile trying to match the velocity curve making my own custom one on the SL88, and I think I got it pretty close.
> 
> That's just my initial two cents, going to try to make a full review and comparison of the two as well. Regarding "heavy" action, I think it's kind of interesting, because you could argue the A88 has a lighter action than the SL88, sort of, but the A88 is also mushier, and it doesn't end up giving the feeling of a real piano the same way the SL88 does. Then again, the A88 might actually be closer to an upright... It's really hard to say, and I don't think there is a way to describe all the nuance of the two actions without playing it yourself.
> 
> Either way though, I think they're both really great actions at the end of the day, and you'd do great with either one.


Thank you for all the information. I'm leaning toward the SL88 Studio. I like StudioLogic's minimalist design and even though it may have the poorer action, it seems like a good value weighted MIDI controller. I'm just hoping the key resistance isn't too high. I know it gets a lot of flack, but I really liked the Yamaha P-series digital piano action (GHS?) which had a lighter weighted response and didn't make my hands sore. I ended up returning it though due to how ridiculously tall it was. At over 6" there was very little legroom, especially when trying to accommodate a sustain pedal.


----------



## PaulieDC

etudes said:


> I spent awhile trying to match the velocity curve making my own custom one on the SL88, and I think I got it pretty close.


Good to hear, velocity curve makes or breaks it.

Question about the TP/40WOOD: how is it for playing in strings and brass, especially legato? Can you get close to what a synth-action keybed might give you?


----------



## etudes

PaulieDC said:


> Good to hear, velocity curve makes or breaks it.
> 
> Question about the TP/40WOOD: how is it for playing in strings and brass, especially legato? Can you get close to what a synth-action keybed might give you?



Testing it against a fatar synth keybed I have, I'd say the synth action is a bit better for legato strings and such. But it's not enough of a difference that I think I'd be likely to pull out my synth when I'm putting down a legato string melody. I'm used to weighted keys as a pianist though, so it might depend on your muscle memory.


----------



## PaulieDC

etudes said:


> Testing it against a fatar synth keybed I have, I'd say the synth action is a bit better for legato strings and such. But it's not enough of a difference that I think I'd be likely to pull out my synth when I'm putting down a legato string melody. I'm used to weighted keys as a pianist though, so it might depend on your muscle memory.


Awesome, thanks for the fast reply. I’m not classically trained but have been playing piano most of my life, so I think I’ll be OK there. And it’s not like I can’t tweak stuff in the MIDI editor, lol. Thanks!


----------



## shropshirelad

I'm about to upgrade my SL73 Studio to the SL88 Grand + Mixface but I've had my head turned by the Arturia Keylab 8, which offers a lot of functionality on the front panel without having to add the Mixface. I like the SLs but do wish that they didn't have the blooming knob right in the middle. I also wish all manufacturers would consider adding the ability to attach a mouse mat tray to the front. More of them seem to offer stands/keyboard extensions, so hopefully this may arrive at some point. Until then, I'll continue to use my trust ex school science lab stool, which is just the right height for this job. Opinions on the Arturia gratefully received, thanks.


----------



## Tronam

whinecellar said:


> There are at least (4) semi/synth-weighted 88 note controllers on the market:
> - StudioLogic Numa Compact 2/2x
> - Nektar LX88+ and upcoming GXP88
> - M-Audio/Alesis Keystation mk2
> - new Arturia Keylab 88 Essential
> 
> I tried all 4 and just grabbed the Arturia. I’m in the same boat as you, plus dealing with RSI issues post-surgery after 30+ years of banging on heavily weighted keys. I posted a mini-review in another thread - here ya go:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Roland A-88mk2 is ALMOST perfect
> 
> 
> I couldn’t agree more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


I feel like I’ve been waffling around on making a final decision on an 88-key controller for months now. Any particular reason for choosing the Arturia Keylab 88 Essential over the Nektar LX88+?

And a big thanks to all the contributors to this thread; It’s been immensely helpful.


----------



## otavio

Integration with Analog Lab ?!


I don't know if they solved the Nektar Lx88+ issue, where the black keys being a little louder than the white ones.


----------



## rrichard63

otavio said:


> I don't know if they solved the Nektar Lx88+ issue, where the black keys being a little louder than the white ones.


I think the issue was actually with the LX88 rather than the LX88+. I have the newer model and I think it's good in that regard. I tested for this issue as best I could before deciding to keep it. But I'm an unreliable keyboard player and might not be able to tell.

Nektar gives some advice on testing here:






Impact LX88+: Black/White Key Velocity Sensitivity Response







support.nektartech.com





I like the LX88+ -- especially for the modest price.


----------



## whinecellar

Tronam said:


> I feel like I’ve been waffling around on making a final decision on an 88-key controller for months now. Any particular reason for choosing the Arturia Keylab 88 Essential over the Nektar LX88+?
> 
> And a big thanks to all the contributors to this thread; It’s been immensely helpful.



For one, the build quality on the Arturia was surprisingly good - much better than any other “budget” controller. Everything about it felt really good. And yeah, if you use their software, it’s a no-brainer.

I even liked the action despite being semi-weighted - it was perfect for programming fast non-piano parts. 

Unfortunately though, I just couldn’t get an acceptable velocity curve out of it no matter how hard I tried; I had a really hard time controlling good piano VIs with wide velocity ranges. And to be fair, it’s the same issue with every other semi-weighted controller I’ve ever tried. Really unfortunate, because it’s the perfect controller otherwise. And it may work well for someone not looking for a piano-oriented controller - I highly recommend it in that case!


----------



## Tronam

whinecellar said:


> For one, the build quality on the Arturia was surprisingly good - much better than any other “budget” controller. Everything about it felt really good. And yeah, if you use their software, it’s a no-brainer.
> 
> I even liked the action despite being semi-weighted - it was perfect for programming fast non-piano parts.
> 
> Unfortunately though, I just couldn’t get an acceptable velocity curve out of it no matter how hard I tried; I had a really hard time controlling good piano VIs with wide velocity ranges. And to be fair, it’s the same issue with every other semi-weighted controller I’ve ever tried. Really unfortunate, because it’s the perfect controller otherwise. And it may work well for someone not looking for a piano-oriented controller - I highly recommend it in that case!


I ended up getting the LX88+ and am encountering the same kind of issue: big unpredictable spikes in velocity from near silent to often jarringly loud in any piano VI, and it doesn't seem to make much of a difference what curve preset I choose. I'd read about mismatched sensitivity between the white & black keys and it is still a problem with black keys easily hitting 110-127 even on the soft curve preset. I'm honestly not hitting it that hard. It's frustrating because the control surface, not unlike the Keylab essential, has so many positive things going for it. I don't even mind the basic feel of the key action.

I don't understand this. I've had many synth action keyboards over the past couple decades and none were this poor. The Clavia Nord Lead 2 and Yamaha AN1x had excellent synth keybeds that didn't behave like this at all, at least not within reason. I could chalk it up to poor technique, but even my IK Multimedia iRig Keys which I consider quite low end is noticeably better in predictable velocity consistency.


----------



## otavio

Sad to hear about it.
Actually, even Nord its dealing with this kind of trouble these days.
I don't know what it's happening with keys manufacturing


----------



## Andy Davidson

For anyone deciding on an 88 weighted key controller, have a look at the M-Audio Hammer 88. It's often overlooked, but after trying and returning both an Arturia Keylab Essential 88 (I decided I wanted weighted key rather than semi-weighted) and an StudioLogic SL88 Studio (the action was a little too heavy and spongy for me) I ended up with the Hammer 88 which was love at first play.

It's a great action and for me is ideal, it's weighted, but not too heavy and is a crisp hammer action, without any sponginess. It's build like a tank, looks beautiful, very piano like and elegant in look (I think the designers were influenced by the look of the Kawai VCP1, but toned it down a little) and feels like an instrument rather than just another controller. When playing it, I forget all about how it feels and simply just play. 

Funny enough if you look at Thomann's website and the ranking for 88 controllers, by number of sales, the SL88, A88 MK2 and KK88 Mk2 are all above the Hammer 88. But if you sort by review ratings, the Hammer 88 is second only to a Doepfer, which is twice it's price. The Hammer 88 is even rated higher than the Kawai VCP1! Again it shows that it's often overlooked, but highly rated by those that give it a look!

Me included, I love mine, highly recommended and I'm a bit of a fussy bugger too!









Thomann Master Keyboards (up to 88 Keys)


Master Keyboards (up to 88 Keys) at Europe's largest retailer of musical instruments - fast delivery, 30-Day Money-Back Guarantee and 3-year Thomann warranty




www.thomann.de


----------



## Tronam

Andy Davidson said:


> For anyone deciding on an 88 weighted key controller, have a look at the M-Audio Hammer 88. It's often overlooked, but after trying and returning both an Arturia Keylab Essential 88 (I decided I wanted weighted key rather than semi-weighted) and an StudioLogic SL88 Studio (the action was a little too heavy and spongy for me) I ended up with the Hammer 88 which was love at first play.
> 
> It's a great action and for me is ideal, it's weighted, but not too heavy and is a crisp hammer action, without any sponginess. It's build like a tank, looks beautiful, very piano like and elegant in look (I think the designers were influenced by the look of the Kawai VCP1, but toned it down a little) and feels like an instrument rather than just another controller. When playing it, I forget all about how it feels and simply just play.
> 
> Funny enough if you look at Thomann's website and the ranking for 88 controllers, by number of sales, the SL88, A88 MK2 and KK88 Mk2 are all above the Hammer 88. But if you sort by review ratings, the Hammer 88 is second only to a Doepfer, which is twice it's price. The Hammer 88 is even rated higher than the Kawai VCP1! Again it shows that it's often overlooked, but highly rated by those that give it a look!
> 
> Me included, I love mine, highly recommended and I'm a bit of a fussy bugger too!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomann Master Keyboards (up to 88 Keys)
> 
> 
> Master Keyboards (up to 88 Keys) at Europe's largest retailer of musical instruments - fast delivery, 30-Day Money-Back Guarantee and 3-year Thomann warranty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thomann.de


Thank you for the recommendation. I’ll strongly consider it. After returning 2 keyboards in a row I’m a bit fatigued by this process. I’m considering the possibility of a trip across state to one of the big city music stores so that I can try various keyboards in person.


----------



## Andy Davidson

Tronam said:


> Thank you for the recommendation. I’ll strongly consider it. After returning 2 keyboards in a row I’m a bit fatigued by this process. I’m considering the possibility of a trip across state to one of the big city music stores so that I can try various keyboards in person.



I know exactly what you mean, I was getting worn out deciding too, got to the point I just wanted it sorted. Luckily enough the Hammer 88 fitted the bill perfectly! 

Good luck and have fun with whichever one you decide one.


----------



## Kent

Andy Davidson said:


> For anyone deciding on an 88 weighted key controller, have a look at the M-Audio Hammer 88. It's often overlooked, but after trying and returning both an Arturia Keylab Essential 88 (I decided I wanted weighted key rather than semi-weighted) and an StudioLogic SL88 Studio (the action was a little too heavy and spongy for me) I ended up with the Hammer 88 which was love at first play.
> 
> It's a great action and for me is ideal, it's weighted, but not too heavy and is a crisp hammer action, without any sponginess. It's build like a tank, looks beautiful, very piano like and elegant in look (I think the designers were influenced by the look of the Kawai VCP1, but toned it down a little) and feels like an instrument rather than just another controller. When playing it, I forget all about how it feels and simply just play.
> 
> Funny enough if you look at Thomann's website and the ranking for 88 controllers, by number of sales, the SL88, A88 MK2 and KK88 Mk2 are all above the Hammer 88. But if you sort by review ratings, the Hammer 88 is second only to a Doepfer, which is twice it's price. The Hammer 88 is even rated higher than the Kawai VCP1! Again it shows that it's often overlooked, but highly rated by those that give it a look!
> 
> Me included, I love mine, highly recommended and I'm a bit of a fussy bugger too!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thomann Master Keyboards (up to 88 Keys)
> 
> 
> Master Keyboards (up to 88 Keys) at Europe's largest retailer of musical instruments - fast delivery, 30-Day Money-Back Guarantee and 3-year Thomann warranty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thomann.de


I've been wanting to try this out, but (oddly? maybe because of COVID?) no stores around me carry it.

I've read and watched reviews that say the Hammer 88 is indeed crisp/quick, but also somewhat spongey. Yet you say it has no sponginess. In your experience, can you imagine why some might say that it has some?


----------



## Andy Davidson

kmaster said:


> I've been wanting to try this out, but (oddly? maybe because of COVID?) no stores around me carry it.
> 
> I've read and watched reviews that say the Hammer 88 is indeed crisp/quick, but also somewhat spongey. Yet you say it has no sponginess. In your experience, can you imagine why some might say that it has some?



It's funny, because I saw some that said that too and didn't understand it! My my previous StudioLogic SL88, it was the sponginess that put me off, it felt (to me at least) that when you pressed them, they went down into a spongey base, rather than crisp. The Hammer 88 on the other hand has a very positive crisp action. Now, depending on preference, some people might like that sponginess as it's something to really dig into. But for me, it just slowed down my playing.

I got the Hammer 88 before the SL88 was returned and played them side by side to compare, the Hammer 88 for me being much faster and responsive.

On the other hand, I did see one review where they preferred the sponginess of the SL88 to really dig into it and said in comparison, the Hammer 88 felt almost semi-weighted!

But overall the SL's are know to be a little on the stiff/heavier side.

I did wonder if some of the comments about the Hammer 88 being spongy were from people who usually use non-weighted or semi-weighted keyboards!

It did puzzle me though seeing one review in particular mention it, I'd already ordered it by then, but was anxious until it turned it! It was love at first play and any doubts simply vanished!

If you can try and get to a store to try one out, or buy from somewhere with easy returns.

If you're in the UK, I'd highly recommend Gear4Music, I've no affiliation to them, other than being a very happy customer and grateful for their patience and ease of return, they arrange pickup etc, while I was trying and returning controller keyboards! In total 3 went back, 2 were kept!

PS. One video to checkout: 

Then have a look in the comments, about 6 comments from the top, the one from Jim, he summed up the Hammer 88 perfectly for me, after reading lots of great reviews and feedback, it was his that triggered me to click the buy now button!

Good luck and have fun with whichever you choose.

Cheers,

Andy.


----------



## shropshirelad

shropshirelad said:


> I'm about to upgrade my SL73 Studio to the SL88 Grand + Mixface but I've had my head turned by the Arturia Keylab 8


It turns out that I went neither of the above - I'm now the proud owner of an A-88 MKII. Really pleased with it so far and the action is beautiful. I also picked up a Faderport 8, so the lack of a traditional mod wheel/faders isn't an issue.


----------



## Andy Davidson

shropshirelad said:


> It turns out that I went neither of the above - I'm now the proud owner of an A-88 MKII. Really pleased with it so far and the action is beautiful. I also picked up a Faderport 8, so the lack of a traditional mod wheel/faders isn't an issue.


Very nice, that's a quality combination of kit you've got there, quality controls on that Faderport, nice! Enjoy!


----------



## shropshirelad

Thanks Andy - the Faderport was B-Stock from Scan UK & 'as new' - just missing the quickstart guide! A88 from them too. Ordered on Saturday afternoon & delivered on Sunday morning!


----------



## Andy Davidson

shropshirelad said:


> Thanks Andy - the Faderport was B-Stock from Scan UK & 'as new' - just missing the quickstart guide! A88 from them too. Ordered on Saturday afternoon & delivered on Sunday morning!


Wow, that's a great service, next day delivery on a Saturday, fantastic. Both are quality pieces of kit, you'll have fun with those! Enjoy! I'm off to Scan UK right now to see if they've got any other cracking deals too!


----------



## Tronam

I'm considering the Native Instruments S88 MK2, but it seems a little overpriced for anyone not locked into the Komplete Kontrol ecosystem and it's mildly annoying that so much of its functionality is tied to the KK wrapper plugin. Someone mentioned it having a fatar TP/100 earlier. Are there any other keyboards on the market using the same action?


----------



## MusicalG

Tronam said:


> I'm considering the Native Instruments S88 MK2, but it seems a little overpriced for anyone not locked into the Komplete Kontrol ecosystem and it's mildly annoying that so much of its functionality is tied to the KK wrapper plugin. Someone mentioned it having a fatar TP/100 earlier. Are there any other keyboards on the market using the same action?


The Arturia KeyLab. 88 Mk1 definitely uses that one, as I have it


----------



## PaulieDC

We have a Roland RD800 at our church, is that the same PH4 keybed as the A-88 MKII? If so I might go fo rthe SL88 Grand, still torn. Reason is, the RD800 sits behing our Yamaha C5 grand which is amazing to play. Then when I get on the RD800 it feels a little too bouncy for me. Feels GOOD but there's an unnatural bounce. The ladies like it because it's easier to play than the real Grand, but I have hands like catcher's mitts so I LOVE the harder Yamaha grand feel.

SL88 vs A-88 MKII, driving me nuts. problem is, 50" is my max width really and I use a FaderPort for CC's so SL88 seems like the obvious choice. It's just the horror stories of quality issues... maybe I'm over-worrying about that. Ty Unwin has been using his for 4 years (it's in his 2016 overview and it's still there in his Nov 2019 review of BBCSO). For all I know he owns 6 of them and tosses them in a pile when they bust.


----------



## PaulieDC

rrichard63 said:


> That's my main issue with the Studiologic keyboards. Has anybody who uses one been able to train their fingers to reliably produce pitch bends of (close to) a half step and a whole step using these joysticks?


Just got the Grand and MAN, you have to move the tiny joystick ever so slightly to make a change. For Expression on a horn you could work to get proficient at such a small effort to get a response but pitch bend that doesn't sound like a dying hyena my be a challenge. I went into the software utility and disabled all three sticks, lol... I just use the FaderPort 8, I'm now used to 100mm faders, no turning back.


----------



## PaulieDC

Just to clarify if you are shopping and deciding, the manual says that the SL88 Grand is not bus-powered which is goofy. I'm running it just fine off of a good quality https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Hi-Speed-Ferrite-U023-006/dp/B003MQ29B2 (RF shielded USB cable) directly connected to my motherboard, not in a hub. NO problems. jsyk.

And always use USB cables with the ferrite chokes in your studio... I know, I keep harping on that, but RF shielded cables will greatly reduce data errors. The Tripp-Lite brand is the MIDI composer's secret, under 10 bucks and work just as good as digital USB cables that run $40-$150. They're not snake oil, just miserably overpriced. The Tripp-Lites work just as well for 7 bucks.


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## Joshua Day

PaulieDC said:


> Just got the Grand and MAN, you have to move the tiny joystick ever so slightly to make a change. For Expression on a horn you could work to get proficient at such a small effort to get a response but pitch bend that doesn't sound like a dying hyena my be a challenge. I went into the software utility and disabled all three sticks, lol... I just use the FaderPort 8, I'm now used to 100mm faders, no turning back.



One of the reasons I bought the SL88 Studio was for the joysticks and lack of buttons and gizmos all over the top that I would never use. For some East West samples and the Joshua Bell Violin, it is possible to control dynamics and vibrato simultaneously with the third joystick set to Mod and Expression, but I get what you are saying about the super tiny travel distance. I find that I mostly draw in my automation after the fact. I'll check out the FaderPort... I have been toying with the idea of buying a fader controller. I'm just not sure how much I would use it.


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## PaulieDC

Joshua Day said:


> One of the reasons I bought the SL88 Studio was for the joysticks and lack of buttons and gizmos all over the top that I would never use. For some East West samples and the Joshua Bell Violin, it is possible to control dynamics and vibrato simultaneously with the third joystick set to Mod and Expression, but I get what you are saying about the super tiny travel distance. I find that I mostly draw in my automation after the fact. I'll check out the FaderPort... I have been toying with the idea of buying a fader controller. I'm just not sure how much I would use it.


Good to know. In all fairness I was wondering about what I didn't know because I've seen some major players like Ty Unwin really liking the joysticks.

Moot point for me, my Ikea desk is right-angle but the inner corner is rounded, not a nice 90 degree instep. So the top left of the SL88 is hidden under the desk curve, covering 2 of the 3 joysticks. I'm totally happy with the FaderPort 8 and the MixFace combo so I'd rather stick with that and not wonder how the joysticks would work, can't reach them anyway, lol!


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## BassClef

I used the joy sticks for a few weeks and decided I wanted more, so I bought the SL-Mixface.


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## B4time

Lotscof greatvinformed opinions here! I just registered to toss in my thoughts having waded through thevprocess of finding a new 88 key controller quite recently.
First off, reading up on these keyboards is critical but finding one in a local shop is pretty challenging. I am in the Boston area and don't think any local shops are stocking 88 key controllers. So, buying them, trying them out at home and knowing that you are likely paying for return shipping is really the only way to go.. i am returning a keylab 88 mk2 today. Will cost me 30 bux but actually that isn't a bad deal for having the keyboard in my setup and REALLY trying it out - much better than the cursory eval I ciuld do at local GC.
This has been my experience. I purchased a KKS88 about a year ago. I was keeping a small apartment in Boston at the time for work purposes (not a pro musician by any stretch, nonetheless I can play awesome piano (sometimes) and awful piano (too often) - just so you have an idea of where I am coming from. I also have a first gen S61. Thought that my be ok for the apartment but I just cannot play piano (90% of what I play) on synth keyboard. I had very high hopes for S88. And I did like it. I liked the integration w all the nks instruments and (eventually) the daw integration w Studio One - which was not there at first. But eventually sold it when I moved out of apartment. Why? The action. Plain and simple. The TP100 action is IMHO sluggish and very very spongy. It is ok for playing closed chords but open chords or bass lines with the root in a low register both result in 5th finger problems. I found it very difficult to get reliable and reproducible velocities with 5th finger extended beyond more than a fifth or sixth. I know that reads a bit strange but I think that is the big problem w playability forvthe TP100. yes, you can 'did in' nicely w fingers 1-4, but at least for me, that low or high 5th finger is critical and really hard to get right with the spongy weighting.. So, out of the apartment and back on Cape Cod full time. I have had the pleasure of having a Kurz 2500SX and PC3X for the last 20+ years. I loved the action on both. I know the PC3X is Fatar TP40L (L for light). Not sure on the 2500SX. It felt a lot like the TP40L but might have beem TP10. I decided I wasn't using the Kurz for internal sounds so much and it was never meant to integrate w DAW. I started looking for an 88 weighted controller that would be simpler and offer better daw integration. Called Sweetwater and my Sales Engineer convinced me that the S88 keybed was different than the keylab 88 mk2. Native instruments is circumspect about the keybed and even though I thought it was TP100 , the SW guy said it either was not TP100 or was mod8fied and definitely diff than Keylab. Wrong. It feels EXACTLY the same, so back it goes. I just took delivery on a Studiologic 88 Grand and I am very happy with the action, very much like the TP40L.. Like another poster I do not see how anyone could suggest that this is heavier than the TP100. It is nicely weighted (and graded) and is infinitely faster than the TP00. I added on a Mixface which sits very nicely on the keyboard (held magnetically and not going anywhere by accident).. With SL88 Grand + Mixface the cost is around 1250. Not bad. The Mixface is pretty basic but covers the important bases of reliable transport control and mix fader control w dedicated pan knobs. I have not yet tried it out for vst control. I use Arturia V Coll a lot and the layout of Mixface looks like it should map very nicely with Analog Lab.. i was debating between Mixface and Faderport8. Mixface is nice ergonomically in my set up. Faderport8 would give really tight Studio One integration. Interested to hear any opinions on this..


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## willie45

I’m not a great pianist or expert on this stuff but I learned on an acoustic piano.

I finally gave up on full size MIDI controllers and bought the Kawai ES110 for £450 which has 88 keys of “proper” piano action and plugs into my interface. It is portable enough for me. 

The only thing it doesn’t have is a load of sliders and wheels but for me the trade off was worth it and I have a cheap Korg nano controller which does all the sliders I need.

I’ve been very happy with it


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## B4time

Always hear great things about the Kawai keybeds. I have tried them out in the past and thought they were great but coming from Kurz w TP40 i thought something similarcwould be a good fit. It was between the SL Grand and Roland A88. Figured the SLnwould be similar to what I was used to so went in that directio n. Also, not a total deal breaker but think the Roland looks a bit weird. Like they found a box contollers laying around and decided to just bolt them onto the left end of the keyboard.. if neither the SL or Roland worked out, Kawai was up next.


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## willie45

Glad you found that it worked for you. I was going to try the Studiologic 88 but never found one locally to try then the first lockdown came, and I was worried I was going to end up spending a lot just to ship keyboards back and forth.

I have a Roland HP504 in the living room. It feels great. I can connect it to my computer and I'd have just used that but it would have meant having to drag a laptop with interface ( and speakers with cables or headphones when I wanted to hear playback etc ) so it was just too inconvenient.

I see you're using Studio One. I'm trialling that at the moment and it seems very nice indeed. I'm a novice to recording though, and don't know what I'm doing, so I really should stick with Logic as I'm just learning it but on the other hand I don't do anything complex and my initial impressions of Studio One are very positive and so I might go with the Sphere thing for a few months.


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