# Any jazz composers here writing band+orchestra mockups?



## Cdnalsi (Jan 22, 2022)

Hi all,

Would love to listen to your jazz mockups if anyone here is doing big orchestras backed by a band. And perhaps discuss VIs you're using, mixing techniques, all that good stuff.

Thanks!


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## Bollen (Jan 23, 2022)

I have done quite a few in the past, but I've left jazz a bit behind a bit. Pursuing new interests like contemporary music. However, I'm happy to help with any questions you might have...


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## musicalweather (Jan 23, 2022)

Following!


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## Cdnalsi (Jan 23, 2022)

Bollen said:


> I have done quite a few in the past, but I've left jazz a bit behind a bit. Pursuing new interests like contemporary music. However, I'm happy to help with any questions you might have...


Thanks for your reply. Do you happen to still have some audio you could share please?

My main concern right now is actually mixing. I'm sequencing a jazz nonet and being backed up by BBCSO, I'm trying to get that Vince Mendoza / Metropole Orkest mix. So I was looking for tips on compression, EQ-ing, setting up the stage really.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jan 23, 2022)

No mock-ups to share, but some libraries I use for jazz to get you started:

Straight Ahead Samples - Birth of the Trumpet, The Eminent Trombone (basically everything they have is good. It does take some time to learn to use them).
Audio modeling SWAM brass + woodwinds
VSL flügelhorn, Jazz drums, upright bass
Sonicouture moonkits (brushes!)
Teletone Golden Age Grand
Cinesamples Piano in Blue

Heard good things from OT Glorydays.

I try to get them on the same stage in MIRPro using smaller rooms like in room pack 2 and use that for mixing. The dry libraries (SWAM, VSL VI's) work great, the rest is a bit hit and miss. That probably says more about my poor mixing skills than anything else.


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## Dave Connor (Jan 23, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> Thanks for your reply. Do you happen to still have some audio you could share please?
> 
> My main concern right now is actually mixing. I'm sequencing a jazz nonet and being backed up by BBCSO, I'm trying to get that Vince Mendoza / Metropole Orkest mix. So I was looking for tips on compression, EQ-ing, setting up the stage really.


I did a mock-up for Vince Mendoza on a tune by Sting he did the arr., for (Sting duet with Barbara Streisand.) Very chopsy intricate writing but essentially orchestral in nature. I used East West Diamond, Strings and Brass (not too big or too wet) along with Spitfire Symphonic Winds. Came out very nice and was well received. I wouldn’t call it Jazz though. 

Do you have any links to the specific Mendoza style you’re going for?


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## Maxfabian (Jan 23, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> Would love to listen to your jazz mockups if anyone here is doing big orchestras backed by a band.


Hi, not sure if this fit in to what you are seeking but Im a Jazz pianist and have done some VI tunes in the genre of Jazz. Here is a piece with a Jazz trio + "Orchestra": 

And here is one with just a "trio":

If the music and production gets your attention I have more trackas on my SC that you can listen to and if you have any questions I gladly will answer what ever comes to your mind. 

Cheers 

Max


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Jan 23, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Straight Ahead Samples - Birth of the Trumpet, The Eminent Trombone (basically everything they have is good. It does take some time to learn to use them).


I can vouch for _The Eminent. _A different type of piece than what you need, but I was happy with the results in my recent jazz ballad





His Eminence & I -- A jazz piece using The Eminent trombone from Straight Ahead Samples


As some of you might already know, our beloved Sassy Loungerie, jazz singer extraordinaire, was married in a previous life to a very famous trombonist, His Eminence himself, as he likes to be called. She composed this next piece especially for him and called it His Eminence and I as a...




vi-control.net




Would now like to try their trumpet and sax.


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## gyprock (Jan 23, 2022)

Here's something I wrote to try out the Straight Ahead Samples products i.e. 3 brass, bass & drums. I also used VSL elite strings doubled with Noteperformer strings and Piano-in-Blue. I originally wrote it in Dorico so it's a bit static. I then imported the midi into Studio One 5.5 and tried to massage it until my tolerance level for DAW editing was exhausted. I then added a limiter, some Gullfoss and then ensured that the final volume level was at -14LUFS which is the YouTube standard.


View attachment L42-Poly-Blues-alt-mix-1.mp3


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## dcoscina (Jan 23, 2022)

Did this in StaffPad a couple years ago. Want to get it performed live but I doubt anyone would want to lug a Fender Rhodes on stage with an orchestra. The really loud part gets a bit squashed in terms of frequencies due to StaffPad's compression... It's a fun chart. I might expand it. It was inspired by those Lalo Schifrin Dirty Harry scores and David Shire's Pelham One, Two, Three. Love the 70s. (my era).


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## Cdnalsi (Jan 23, 2022)

Dave Connor said:


> I did a mock-up for Vince Mendoza on a tune by Sting he did the arr., for (Sting duet with Barbara Streisand.) Very chopsy intricate writing but essentially orchestral in nature. I used East West Diamond, Strings and Brass (not too big or too wet) along with Spitfire Symphonic Winds. Came out very nice and was well received. I wouldn’t call it Jazz though.
> 
> Do you have any links to the specific Mendoza style you’re going for?


Nice! Would love to hear that mock-up if you can share please! 
Yeah I've been looking at things in the line of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtUp8w59Cmk (this Yellow Jackets concert), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSMqo1Ud_FE (John Scofield), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UofgLBrLJjo (Ao Mar).



Maxfabian said:


> Hi, not sure if this fit in to what you are seeking but Im a Jazz pianist and have done some VI tunes in the genre of Jazz. Here is a piece with a Jazz trio + "Orchestra":
> 
> And here is one with just a "trio":
> 
> ...



Nice playing and arrangements! Can I please ask what VIs you used on these? Thanks!


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## Dave Connor (Jan 23, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> Nice! Would love to hear that mock-up if you can share please!
> Yeah I've been looking at things in the line of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtUp8w59Cmk (this Yellow Jackets concert), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSMqo1Ud_FE (John Scofield), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UofgLBrLJjo (Ao Mar).
> 
> 
> Nice playing and arrangements! Can I please ask what VIs you used on these? Thanks!


I wish I could share the mock-up but you cannot believe the warnings that come with having an unreleased Barbara Streisand vocal in your DAW. I would get a great friend who recommended me for the gig in big trouble as well.

Listening to the Mendoza link it seems to me you basically need to do what many of us do which is cover all the bases with a handful of libraries.

Toontrack Superior 3 would be very good for drums with Jazz midi files from them and perhaps others.

Trilian for upright bass (unless someone knows of a better one which is certainly possible.)

Guitar should be real of course.

I like Hollywood Diamond Strings paired with Spitfire Chamber Strings.

Hollywood Brass would cover _some _of what you need. For a variety of Jazz articulations people here can advise, although there are a few good ones in Hollywood Brass.

Spitfire Symphonic Winds sound great and are pretty flexible.

If you go to my SoundCloud page below you will here some Jazzy things that will give you an idea how well the above libraries can do some things similar to what Mendoza does. Check the track, Frequency.


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## Maxfabian (Jan 24, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> Can I please ask what VIs you used on these?


Thanks dude! Yeah on Ocean Land I use Ravenscroft 275 for the piano, VSL Special edition for winds, Cine brass Core, CSS and Bohemian Violin. And on Slow Emotions I use Ravenscroft 275, Straight Ahed upright and the drums are from Straight Ahed as well. 

Cheers


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## Bollen (Jan 24, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> Thanks for your reply. Do you happen to still have some audio you could share please?
> 
> My main concern right now is actually mixing. I'm sequencing a jazz nonet and being backed up by BBCSO, I'm trying to get that Vince Mendoza / Metropole Orkest mix. So I was looking for tips on compression, EQ-ing, setting up the stage really.


I probably do somewhere, but it looks like you already have plenty of good contributions here. However, if you want to get anywhere close to a realistic jazz performance you will probably need specialist libraries. Never been a fan of Mendoza, so I'm probably not a good person to ask.


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## José Herring (Jan 24, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> Did this in StaffPad a couple years ago. Want to get it performed live but I doubt anyone would want to lug a Fender Rhodes on stage with an orchestra. The really loud part gets a bit squashed in terms of frequencies due to StaffPad's compression... It's a fun chart. I might expand it. It was inspired by those Lalo Schifrin Dirty Harry scores and David Shire's Pelham One, Two, Three. Love the 70s. (my era).



Wow. They need to call dcoscina for the next Bond movie. Good stuff here.


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## dcoscina (Jan 24, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Wow. They need to call dcoscina for the next Bond movie. Good stuff here.


ha thanks Jose. Maybe the next Dirty Harry movie perhaps. James Bond is not my milieu


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jan 24, 2022)

Had too much fun with this one! If I were to use libraries I'd use a combo of Glory Days, Straight Ahead Samples stuff, and Screaming Trumpet.


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## Gerald (Jan 25, 2022)

A little experience after buying "Chris Hein horns" a few years ago


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jan 25, 2022)

Gerald said:


> A little experience after buying "Chris Hein horns" a few years ago



Nice work Gerald! Definitely vibing with it.


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## Gerald (Jan 25, 2022)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Nice work Gerald! Definitely vibing with it.


A small thing compared to your song Chris, congrats!


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## LoFiLeif (Mar 1, 2022)

This is all jazz, although not big band, but perhaps it could work as some sort of inspiration?


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Mar 1, 2022)

LoFiLeif said:


> This is all jazz, although not big band, but perhaps it could work as some sort of inspiration?


All I can say Thorleif is: WOW!!!


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## The Retroblueman (Mar 2, 2022)

Hi - new here - following this thread with interest and think an imminent investment is going to be glory days - thanks for that (going to involve some saving but I cannot wait: ) Hopefully not a silly question but am wondering how you might go about programming 4/4 swing (i.e. with a triplet feel) into a DAW? I can see two potential routes - either set up the track in 12/8 (so each bar has four groups of three) or program it in 4/4 and set the grid to 8th note triplets. I suppose the latter is formally more correct but I can see it being more fiddly. I note though that neither would be ideal if you wanted to export parts for real players to play - standard practice for that is to notate straight 8th notes and add an instruction at the start to play with a swing feel. Wondering how else you might go about it. Appreciate the answer may be DAW specific but general tips (if any) much appreciated!

Many thanks in advance!

R


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## Saxer (Mar 2, 2022)

The Retroblueman said:


> Hi - new here - following this thread with interest and think an imminent investment is going to be glory days - thanks for that (going to involve some saving but I cannot wait: ) Hopefully not a silly question but am wondering how you might go about programming 4/4 swing (i.e. with a triplet feel) into a DAW? I can see two potential routes - either set up the track in 12/8 (so each bar has four groups of three) or program it in 4/4 and set the grid to 8th note triplets. I suppose the latter is formally more correct but I can see it being more fiddly. I note though that neither would be ideal if you wanted to export parts for real players to play - standard practice for that is to notate straight 8th notes and add an instruction at the start to play with a swing feel. Wondering how else you might go about it. Appreciate the answer may be DAW specific but general tips (if any) much appreciated!
> 
> Many thanks in advance!
> 
> R


4/4 for 4/4-swing in the DAW too. It's all about playing swing or quantising the right way. It's difficult because often there are very different timing offbeats in the same groove. i.e. accents offbeats are often earlier than comping offbeats. All very tempo dependent. On top of that there's a lot of free timing... laid back or early against the beat... mainly you have to know what you want and the rest is often a lot of editing.
But there are hard quantized neo jazz styles too...


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## Marcus Millfield (Mar 2, 2022)

I would see the Midi-programming part and the "writing for musicians" part as separate processes of you are adamant to use a DAW because, as you note, programming Midi to sound as swing using a grid and quantizing of some kind will make for unreadable sheet music. This'll probably work better using notation software with playback function.


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## Bollen (Mar 2, 2022)

LoFiLeif said:


> This is all jazz, although not big band, but perhaps it could work as some sort of inspiration?



Very talented man!


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