# Thoughts on EW Hollywood Orchestra



## jononotbono (Feb 17, 2019)

So, I've been window shopping online and realised East West have a Valentine's Day Special on for the Hollywood Orchestra (Diamond - 5 Mic Positions). It's $466. That seems like a very good deal. 

I don't own much East West stuff but at this price, I'm thinking it could be a great investment (for different musical choices and I love having the choice of different samples to write music with). Just wondering what people think of Hollywood Orchestra? Does it get updated (any bug fixes)? Do people still use it? Sounds like a weird question as samples are samples but there's so much choice out there now. A few people I work with use HB and HS so I have been meaning to get them for a while.

I'm not interested in Composer Cloud. I've got far too many subscriptions and I just like buying the things I use. Each to their own on that front.
Thanks

Jono


----------



## Casiquire (Feb 17, 2019)

This question has definitely come up before so if you are looking for more detail try a search and see what comes up. The general consensus, and I agree with it, seems to be that the strings and brass are fantastic to this very day. Still top-tier. The percussion is good too, but I think it's hard to mess percussion up.

The drawbacks are with the woodwinds and the solo strings. The woods are hit and miss but mostly miss. I tend to not like the sound itself, there's a lot more phasing, and the legato doesn't really make a convincing performance. Most of those criticisms apply to the solo strings as well. Even their own demos for those don't sound good.


----------



## gsilbers (Feb 17, 2019)

I like it. Still think its a very good sample orchestra. EW kinda flew under the radar once cinesamples and spitfire started to get more and more famous and later cinematic studio strings and others. 
There is obviously hundred of threads but its good to gt a new one sometimes since new prodcuts appear or there are updates. 
I personally do not use EWHO because of play and its also so big i ran out of streaming drives so i had to make choices. Play has gotten better though and many guys are happy with it but im just more confortable with kontakt. 
The sounds are still top notch imo. if you google comparisons videos youll see several videos of poeple playing it against the other orchestras around. but there is no dought in anyones mind that for sure its the best bang for your buck. it used to cost sooo much and now its only less than 500.


----------



## richardt4520 (Feb 17, 2019)

I haven't been using it in a while since I went on a few buying sprees and I'm really going to have to revisit it. The percussion is nice, if a touch on the fluffy/grainy side recording-wise, but it sits better in a mix than many of the other percussion libraries I own.

The brass is good, particularly the horns. I have some issue with the tuba looping that never seems to work right on some notes, but I mainly use Cinebrass and Forzo now so I haven't worried about it. Those horns though!

I actually like the woodwinds. They do get to be a bit phasey when doing dynamic swells but the English horn and some of the low winds are pretty cool. I have a few good woodwind libraries so haven't been using it that much.

Lastly, the strings are nice, if a little outdated. I'm not that impressed with the legato, but doing swells with one CC and adjusting vibrato with another, you can make some pretty realistic lines. When I was using it, I'd usually go up a little on vibrato on note changes and back down to settle in on the note, like real players adjusting their pitch as the note settles in. I tend to use other stuff for strings now but it can get the job done. So basically, for an old library, it still stands as a good one with a lot of value for the money, imo.


----------



## AllanH (Feb 17, 2019)

I think it's a phenomenal deal. I very much like the sound of Hollywood Orchestra and use it on every track. If I had initially spent the time learning the ins and outs of HO/D, I could have saved myself a lot of money. The only weak spot, imo, is that there are no ensemble winds.

On a tech note: Play 5 is rock solid on Windows for me and has always performed well.


----------



## Robert_G (Feb 17, 2019)

Casiquire said:


> The general consensus, and I agree with it, seems to be that the strings and brass are fantastic to this very day.
> 
> The drawbacks are with the woodwinds and the solo strings. The woods are hit and miss but mostly miss.



+1 on all that. I have composer cloud plus and EW on a whole is hit or miss. The clarinet essemble......i cant even describe it...just awful. The flute is passable at best.


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 17, 2019)

Does anyone have any favourite tracks or mockups using EWHO?

Would love to hear some more pieces etc!


----------



## AllanH (Feb 17, 2019)

I'll add the few I know of. Here is one that shows how agile it can be:


Lord of the Rings


The next one is supposedly put together by Thomas Bergersen. This is probably the strongest of the demos.


----------



## OleJoergensen (Feb 17, 2019)

I think Hollywood orchestra is a great library, especially the strings.
Now I more use never libraries because I can get the result faster...
Anyway, here are some non-epic examples......

The String intro is HS layered with Light and sound chamber strings, the rest is “only” HS (Brass Berlin):


An old one, al Hollywood orchestra:


A transcription, al Hollywood orchestra:


An other transcription, al Hollywood orchestra:


----------



## Daryl (Feb 17, 2019)

I only have the Strings, and whilst the sounds are good, the quality control is pretty bad. Expect to have to work around out of tune, noisy and poorly edited samples. As long as you have the time to do that, you should be able to get good results. Having said that, the Strings are currently so cheap, possibly it would be churlish to expect something better for the price.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 17, 2019)

Still a valuable library (I like EW Woodwinds the least) but brass and strings still can hold up with current releases. (Though I am done with supporting eastwest)


----------



## sIR dORT (Feb 17, 2019)

I second what people have said in previous posts: brass and strings sound excellent, percussion (IMO) as well, and winds not as much. Winds have a poor legato sound and the higher shorts (i.e. flute staccato) don't sound very good. HOWEVER, strings and brass are lights out. This was my first major purchase for orchestral composing, and I use it on literally every cue. Legato slur sounds really good, shorts are for the most part convincing, and cross fading between layers is smooth. Percussion has some good stuff as well. IMO, the biggest difference between gold and diamond is main mics vs close. Besides that (and divisi for strings), there isn't a massive difference between the other mic positions given the library's dryness.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Feb 17, 2019)

I'm sure Diamond makes things easier, but I've been using Gold exclusively for a while now. Lots of tricks you can do to fake a farther perspective.
But also....
DUDE YOU JUST BOUGHT HZ STRINGS.... SLOW. DOWN.


----------



## brenneisen (Feb 17, 2019)

sIR dORT said:


> divisi for strings



Divisi mics, not real divisi. Good to point out.


----------



## sIR dORT (Feb 17, 2019)

brenneisen said:


> Divisi mics, not real divisi. Good to point out.


Good correction


----------



## NYC Composer (Feb 17, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> I'm sure Diamond makes things easier, but I've been using Gold exclusively for a while now. Lots of tricks you can do to fake a farther perspective.
> But also....
> DUDE YOU JUST BOUGHT HZ STRINGS.... SLOW. DOWN.


The Urge for Collecting is strong in this one.


----------



## Leon Portelance (Feb 17, 2019)

I use all of it in my template except for the winds: I use Berlin Winds,


----------



## Sopranos (Feb 17, 2019)

Around the same price point - what is the preference around here between Hollywood Orchestra compared to Albion One?


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Feb 17, 2019)

Sopranos said:


> Around the same price point - what is the preference around here between Hollywood Orchestra compared to Albion One?


Completely different. Hollywood Orchestra is much better for orchestral writing, and if you like to write for each individual instruments in a family. Albion One doesn't give you control over the individual instruments, but instead provides ensemble patches such as Strings, Low Brass, Mid Brass, High Brass, etc etc. (instead of Trumpets, trombones, tuba, solo french horn, etc.)
The AlbONE orchestra has a much more 'produced' and hyped sound suitable for TV and library writing where all you need is some big punchy staccatos you can play with two hands and be done in 5 minutes.
But AlbONE also gives you a big selection of really nice synths, pads, drones, and sound design that work well to fill out epic or hybrid tracks. As well as bigger sounding drums and percussion that are more suitable for epic & trailer music.
So... I guess overall, AlbONE covers more ground, lets you work quickly, but with less detail and flexibility. Hollywood Orch allows you to get more detailed with your orchestrations, and write for soloists, but might require a bit more work to produce a hyped 'TV' or epic/hybrid sound.


----------



## Sopranos (Feb 17, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Completely different. Hollywood Orchestra is much better for orchestral writing, and if you like to write for each individual instruments in a family. Albion One doesn't give you control over the individual instruments, but instead provides ensemble patches such as Strings, Low Brass, Mid Brass, High Brass, etc etc. (instead of Trumpets, trombones, tuba, solo french horn, etc.)
> The AlbONE orchestra has a much more 'produced' and hyped sound suitable for TV and library writing where all you need is some big punchy staccatos you can play with two hands and be done in 5 minutes.
> But AlbONE also gives you a big selection of really nice synths, pads, drones, and sound design that work well to fill out epic or hybrid tracks. As well as bigger sounding drums and percussion that are more suitable for epic & trailer music.
> So... I guess overall, AlbONE covers more ground, lets you work quickly, but with less detail and flexibility. Hollywood Orch allows you to get more detailed with your orchestrations, and write for soloists, but might require a bit more work to produce a hyped 'TV' or epic/hybrid sound.


So would it be more appropriate to compare Albion One to The Orchestra? Preference in that case?


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 18, 2019)

I curious about RAM usage for EWHO. Anyone been crazy enough to add the whole thing into their template?


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 18, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I curious about RAM usage for EWHO. Anyone been crazy enough to add the whole thing into their template?



I think hollywood strings can be a ramhog when you use the diamond edition with the specific articulations like bow change legato which can easily take up 1 GB per patch or even more. The rest is by nowadays pretty descent. My recommendation would be to have at least 32 GB ram for the gold edition or better 64 GB ram when going for all this specific HWS Patches which take up most of the ram. Fire out the money :D


----------



## bachader (Feb 18, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> So, I've been window shopping online and realised East West have a Valentine's Day Special on for the Hollywood Orchestra (Diamond - 5 Mic Positions). It's $466. That seems like a very good deal.
> 
> I don't own much East West stuff but at this price, I'm thinking it could be a great investment (for different musical choices and I love having the choice of different samples to write music with). Just wondering what people think of Hollywood Orchestra? Does it get updated (any bug fixes)? Do people still use it? Sounds like a weird question as samples are samples but there's so much choice out there now. A few people I work with use HB and HS so I have been meaning to get them for a while.
> 
> ...



It really depends of your workflow and how much time you plan to invest to program and to tweak it. Although a bit old now, EastWest Hollywood series are of top quality. No doubt that. It's playable and already good out of box but you need to tweak it a bit to make most of it, as with almost any library. Most people use only %20-30 percent of the instruments and articulations it includes and they are already happy with it. Many new competitors provide a more user friendly Kontakt interface, in particular with all the articulations loaded up with keyswitches. You need to set up several tracks for each EW instrument to control all articulations. Besides, Play now seems to be mature and you can get fantastic results if you work your way through a good template setup and CC programming.


----------



## J-M (Feb 18, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I curious about RAM usage for EWHO. Anyone been crazy enough to add the whole thing into their template?



I have been crazy...or stupid enough. You really want that 64 gigs of RAM if you're going to load up almost every patch there is. Otherwise the only thing you'll be running is HWO (Talking about the Gold edition here).


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 18, 2019)

bachader said:


> It really depends of your workflow and how much time you plan to invest to program and to tweak it. Although a bit old now, EastWest Hollywood series are of top quality. No doubt that. It's playable and already good out of box but you need to tweak it a bit to make most of it, as with almost any library. Most people use only %20-30 percent of the instruments and articulations it includes and they are already happy with it. Many new competitors provide a more user friendly Kontakt interface, in particular with all the articulations loaded up with keyswitches. You need to set up several tracks for each EW instrument to control all articulations. Besides, Play now seems to be mature and you can get fantastic results if you work your way through a good template setup and CC programming.



Yeah, a couple of Film/TV Composers I work with use it (amongst other things) hence why I'm looking at buying it. I also feel like my life isn't complete until I own every sample on the planet.


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 18, 2019)

MrLinssi said:


> I have been crazy...or stupid enough. You really want that 64 gigs of RAM if you're going to load up almost every patch there is. Otherwise the only thing you'll be running is HWO (Talking about the Gold edition here).



Probably gonna run it initially on a computer with 96gb of RAM and see how that goes.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Feb 18, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Probably gonna run it initially on a computer with 96gb of RAM and see how that goes.


A savvy Cubase user like yourself will realistically get by on less than 32gb.
I have a pretty full HWO template plus choirs and harp at the moment that is using roughly 24gb.
But that's not with every patch loaded, that's with extras like runs and FX and unused tracks disabled in Cubase.


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 18, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> A savvy Cubase user like yourself will realistically get by on less than 32gb.
> I have a pretty full HWO template plus choirs and harp at the moment that is using roughly 24gb.
> But that's not with every patch loaded, that's with extras like runs and FX and unused tracks disabled in Cubase.



That's good to hear. I will likely just build an EWHO Template to begin with just to get to know it and write a few tracks etc. Need to get familiar with it to create someone's template and knowing the patches makes that process so much faster.


----------



## Henu (Feb 18, 2019)

Is there a general consensus on the percussion (diamond)? Many people talk good things about strings and brass, and badmouth the WW ( :D ) but the percussion is often just shrugged away as "not bad".

I'm currently using Spitfire Percussion, but I feel it's a bit too wet and "symphonic orchestra"- sounding to me in many projects where I could use a bit more clearer and more closer sound which isn't dependant on the huge AIR room in order to sound powerful. I also have Rhapsody Orchestral Percussion for the smaller things, and I feel that the good old EWQLSO (gold) percussion is closest to the sound I personally would like to get. Is the Hollywood percussion sound closer to the EWQLSO sound than Spitfire?


----------



## constaneum (Feb 18, 2019)

Somehow I never like their legato. Brass is the best of all Hollywood libraries (my own opinion). The horns are nice but I rarely use legato patches though.


----------



## DS_Joost (Feb 18, 2019)

Henu said:


> Is there a general consensus on the percussion (diamond)? Many people talk good things about strings and brass, and badmouth the WW ( :D ) but the percussion is often just shrugged away as "not bad".
> 
> I'm currently using Spitfire Percussion, but I feel it's a bit too wet and "symphonic orchestra"- sounding to me in many projects where I could use a bit more clearer and more closer sound which isn't dependant on the huge AIR room in order to sound powerful. I also have Rhapsody Orchestral Percussion for the smaller things, and I feel that the good old EWQLSO (gold) percussion is closest to the sound I personally would like to get. Is the Hollywood percussion sound closer to the EWQLSO sound than Spitfire?



The percussion is good, it sounds great. Yet I still never use it, because there's no modwheel controllable swells. That's a dealbreaker for me. I have Rhapsody (currently on sale for an unbelievable price!) and NI Symphony Percussion. Love them both more than Hollywood Perc. Not a bad library, but you could easily do better.


----------



## DS_Joost (Feb 18, 2019)

constaneum said:


> Somehow I never like their legato. Brass is the best of all Hollywood libraries (my own opinion). The horns are nice but I rarely use legato patches though.



Funny how opinions can differ from person to person. To me, the string and brass legatos are the best I've ever heard yet still.


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 18, 2019)

DS_Joost said:


> I have Rhapsody (currently on sale for an unbelievable price!)



Never knew about it until now. Hmmm. Must be disciplined haha


----------



## DS_Joost (Feb 18, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Never knew about it until now. Hmmm. Must be disciplined haha



Now if there's one library not to be disciplined with...


----------



## Henu (Feb 18, 2019)

Thanks, @DS_Joost - I messed a bit around with both Spitfire and the EWQLSO, and decided that I can prolly live without the Hollywood Percussion, and your post kind of settled it for me afterwards. 
Then again, EW have sales nowadays all the time so I have plenty of opportunities to be in this same situation in the future as well. :D


----------



## jbuhler (Feb 18, 2019)

Sopranos said:


> So would it be more appropriate to compare Albion One to The Orchestra? Preference in that case?


I've been surprised by how good the Orchestra sounds, given its small RAM footprint, especially the strings on chug-a-chug ostinato figures from the arpeggiator engine, and it does provide individual instrument sections (no soloists though), but I still consider it more a sketching tool (and as such it is phenomenal aside from the fact that there is not an easy way to extract the midi from it in order to replace or layer). But unlike Albion One, I wouldn't use it alone in a finished product. 

The sketching process of the two is also different. The Orchestra is more akin to something like the Sonokinetic phrase libraries that you can use to lay-in characteristic backgrounds to sketch the gestural shape of a passage or piece. Because it works through a series of arpeggiators, though, The Orchestra gives somewhat more adaptability than the Sonokinetic libraries and it does not insist on triadic harmonic structures. The other side of The Orchestra is just a traditional section-level orchestral library with basic articulations and legato. For me, "Stealing the Medallion" by Steffan Brinkmann, a delightful little demo on the product page on the Sonuscore site, gives the best idea—both the library's strengths and its real weaknesses as an orchestral library—of how the library works for orchestral composition. I don't think this is the library's strength, however. That would be the textures you can generate with its engine.

Albion One, by contrast, is more like working in traditional short score with very well recorded sections of winds, brass, and strings (and some percussion and hybrid synth stuff as well). But you are sketching for those sections and you can't, say, bring out the cello or the oboe except by replacing the part with another library or layering another library in. The sketch does sound excellent, however, and if you compose for that sound in mind, you can deliver finished pieces from it.

In terms of preference, it would depend on which kind of sketching you think is most helpful. I sometimes sketch with the two in tandem.


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 18, 2019)

Oh dear. I seemed to have just had an accident.


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 18, 2019)

DS_Joost said:


> Now if there's one library not to be disciplined with...



Ok I caved and got it. No more... this week.


----------



## Breaker (Feb 19, 2019)

Henu said:


> Is there a general consensus on the percussion (diamond)? Many people talk good things about strings and brass, and badmouth the WW ( :D ) but the percussion is often just shrugged away as "not bad".
> 
> I'm currently using Spitfire Percussion, but I feel it's a bit too wet and "symphonic orchestra"- sounding to me in many projects where I could use a bit more clearer and more closer sound which isn't dependant on the huge AIR room in order to sound powerful. I also have Rhapsody Orchestral Percussion for the smaller things, and I feel that the good old EWQLSO (gold) percussion is closest to the sound I personally would like to get. Is the Hollywood percussion sound closer to the EWQLSO sound than Spitfire?



It’s a good library if you have the rest of the Hollywood Orchestra, otherwise “not bad” is a fitting description.
All the patches are usable but none of them are really “go-to”. I actually prefer The bass drums and cymbals of SO unless the piece features HO heavily.


----------



## DS_Joost (Feb 19, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Ok I caved and got it. No more... this week.



Not a bad choice. You just bought the most flexible and immediately usable orchestral percussion library out there. At least how I see it. It doesn't sound too big or jaw-dropping out of the box, but that's not where it's strength lies. It's strength lies in the fact that the dry sound of the thing makes it cut through any mix, no matter how thick. If you want a bigger sound, layer it with something more distant. I really use this as a first option on every track I work on that needs percussion.


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 19, 2019)

Ok, so I’m excited waiting for EWHO to arrive in post. What are people’s favourite standout patches across the 4 libraries. I’ve heard the Horn patches in HB are amazing. Very much looking forward to spending a few days going through every sound.


----------



## Robert_G (Feb 19, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Ok, so I’m excited waiting for EWHO to arrive in post. What are people’s favourite standout patches across the 4 libraries. I’ve heard the Horn patches in HB are amazing. Very much looking forward to spending a few days going through every sound.



The HO horn essemble patches are probably EWs best patches...out of everything they have....sound phenominal.


----------



## Mat (Feb 19, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Ok, so I’m excited waiting for EWHO to arrive in post. What are people’s favourite standout patches across the 4 libraries. I’ve heard the Horn patches in HB are amazing. Very much looking forward to spending a few days going through every sound.



It is very easy to get overwhelmed by the sheer number of patches in EWHO, especially considering most of them are nearly identical with just some slight scripting difference.

My best advice would be to stick with a handful of patches to start, such as those in the "Quickstart" and "Template" folders. Those will cover all the major areas you need. And if/when you find that one of those is lacking in terms of scripting or control, dig through the patch lists for a same-but-different instrument to replace it with. You'll go crazy if you, from the very start, attempt to sift through 100 similar violin patches to figure out which you like best.

Also, find the few pages in the manual that describe what all the shorthand patch labeling means (Ni, VB, MV, HT, etc). Bookmark that. Print it. Whatever you need to do. Those patches look like a nightmare until you know what you're looking at.

With all that said - I do love these libraries. Super versatile, and still 100% relevant in this post-Spitfire world. In fact, I was 5 minutes away from ordering Spitfire's LCO until I did a blind comparison between it and the EWHO strings, and found that the EW strings had (IMO) the exact same quality with more versatility. Minus the contemporary textures of course.

Enjoy!


----------



## Gerbil (Feb 19, 2019)

I love the cello legatos. Big dynamic range, lovely rich sound. 

The playable string runs are really effective. 

The horns like others have said.

Flute 2. Really lyrical and rich. One of the best. I just wish I could get under the hood of the woodwinds as there's a lot of potential there. They can work really well together as an ensemble.

You only have to listen to some of the EW demos to know that this orchestra is capable of some fantastic results. I'd be very excited if I was you, jononotnono.


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 19, 2019)

Mat said:


> It is very easy to get overwhelmed by the sheer number of patches in EWHO, especially considering most of them are nearly identical with just some slight scripting difference.
> 
> My best advice would be to stick with a handful of patches to start, such as those in the "Quickstart" and "Template" folders. Those will cover all the major areas you need. And if/when you find that one of those is lacking in terms of scripting or control, dig through the patch lists for a same-but-different instrument to replace it with. You'll go crazy if you, from the very start, attempt to sift through 100 similar violin patches to figure out which you like best.
> 
> ...



Sounds like good advice and I shall do that when it’s up and running. 

Oh, I bought LCO Strings in the Valentine Sale Thunderbolt thing. Been wanting it for a long time (Horror moments and tension). It’s an amazing library as well. Such a great time to be alive!


----------



## Sarah De Carlo (Feb 19, 2019)

Hi, this is a track I produced with strings/brass/woodwinds/Solo Cello&Violin Hollywood Orchestra (Composer Cloud X, with close mic): Percussion from HO/Stormdrums 2/3, bass and guitar sfx from EW Ghostwriter/The Dark Side. I really don't like the solo cello, but in this composition I found the sus expressivo patch layered with the cello ensemble patch, suitable for the purpose. Most of the lushness has been 'compressed' from soundcloud, but better result than youtube


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 19, 2019)

Gerbil said:


> I love the cello legatos. Big dynamic range, lovely rich sound.
> 
> The playable string runs are really effective.
> 
> ...



I am very excited. My Jono_not_Bonophonic Orchestra is growing strong! Think I may need to get a few more SSDs! Haha!


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 19, 2019)

Sarah De Carlo said:


> Hi, this is a track I produced with strings/brass/woodwinds Hollywood Orchestra (Composer Cloud X, with close mic): Percussion from HO/Stormdrums 2/3, bass and guitar sfx from EW Ghostwriter/The Dark Side. I really don't like the solo cello, but in this composition I found the sus expressivo patch
> suitable for the purpose. Most of the lushness has been 'compressed' from soundcloud, but better result than youtube




Thanks Sarah. I’ll give it a listen when back in the Music Lab tomorrow!


----------



## dariusofwest (Feb 19, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Ok, so I’m excited waiting for EWHO to arrive in post. What are people’s favourite standout patches across the 4 libraries. I’ve heard the Horn patches in HB are amazing. Very much looking forward to spending a few days going through every sound.



-Hollywood Strings cello legato= such a nice sound
-Hollywood Brass 3 Trumpets Triple Pref RRx3= some cool trumpet triplets that I sometimes use along with the staccatos for extra neat trumpet lines
-Hollywood Percussion- The snares and piatti= I ended up coming up with custom mic mixes for these as the default was a bit too far mic'd for my liking, once I did= really nice sound and playablity + having so many choices for snares and piatti helps a ton. Additionally, I like the close mic sound of the timpani as well.
-Hollywood Brass 6 Horns legato= soft & lyrical at low layers and blasting at loud layers= using this patch when appropriate is always a delight.
-Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds shorts & oboe legato= I very rarely ever use this library except for shorts, effects and the oboe leg slur exp patch (only using close mics). Not a fan of the rest of that library


----------



## Sarah De Carlo (Feb 19, 2019)

Another track produced with Hollywood String/Brass/Choir. I think the spiccato patches are one of the best choices for epic.


----------



## cqd (Feb 19, 2019)

Aaargh..must resist the upgrade!!..


----------



## cqd (Feb 19, 2019)

Ok..so I actually quite like the woodwinds in the gold edition.. (I know.. I said it..)
Do the extra mics add a lot in the diamond can anyone say?


----------



## Ashermusic (Feb 19, 2019)

cqd said:


> Ok..so I actually quite like the woodwinds in the gold edition.. (I know.. I said it..)
> Do the extra mics add a lot in the diamond can anyone say?



Yes. For me, it is the only member of the Hollywood Orchestra where the close mic is a must have.


----------



## cqd (Feb 19, 2019)

Thanks man..
I really don't get why the winds get such a hard time here..
I really like them with the modwheel low..
Dammit, just upgraded..and got SD3 while I was at it..


----------



## Jacob Cadmus (Feb 19, 2019)

I've always wanted to try an all (or at least mostly) EW Hollywood template. Been using bits and pieces on-and-off via Composer Cloud, but just haven't made a full commitment to them yet. I only recently converted my system to all SSD (I'm a late bloomer), and while doing so I wiped all my EW PLAY stuff from my spinning drives by accident (whoopsie). Gotta re-download everything now, though I'll wait until I can add another drive and reserve that for all the EW stuff.


----------



## Mike Fox (Feb 19, 2019)

It's dry and awesome.


----------



## I like music (Feb 19, 2019)

That 6 horn patch. Beautiful.
Ridiculously good libraries (strings and brass). If you consider the price, a no-brainer. And I only have Gold, so I can't imagine just how good Diamond would be.
Can't believe just how well these libraries are aging. They're basically not aging. Like Berlin woodwinds. 

That said, I don't use the HW stuff all that much because I'm trying to create a template based on infinite brass and audio modeling woods, and given my RAM issues, those libraries are much friendlier. Also I like the concept of those single track libraries.

But yeah, absolutely everyone should own Hollywood Orchestra stuff as a minimum, hah.


----------



## Fleer (Feb 20, 2019)

Couldn’t have said it better.


----------



## JohnG (Feb 20, 2019)

I like music said:


> I can't imagine just how good Diamond would be



Way better to have the mics. I use HB and HS all the time.


[note: I have received free products from East West]


----------



## I like music (Feb 21, 2019)

JohnG said:


> Way better to have the mics. I use HB and HS all the time.
> 
> 
> [note: I have received free products from East West]



I think once I have a computer with any actual space and RAM I'll buy them for sure.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Feb 21, 2019)

I like music said:


> I think once I have a computer with any actual space and RAM I'll buy them for sure.


How much RAM you got?
Here's a work in progress I've recently been throwing together to help build a template using only Hollywood Orchestra Gold + Hollywood Choirs. Still mixing and making changes, but I wanted to see how convincingly I could 'fake' a more distant mic perspective, using only the one "main" mic provided with gold. So this mix is fairly 'distant' (and sizzly!). But all up this was using about 24GB of RAM for a full orchestra plus choir. So, don't wait until you've got 64GB of RAM before you start makin music! 

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jdog-ho-gold-template-wip-mp3.18588/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 21, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> How much RAM you got?
> Here's a work in progress I've recently been throwing together to help build a template using only Hollywood Orchestra Gold + Hollywood Choirs. Still mixing and making changes, but I wanted to see how convincingly I could 'fake' a more distant mic perspective, using only the one "main" mic provided with gold. So this mix is fairly 'distant' (and sizzly!). But all up this was using about 24GB of RAM for a full orchestra plus choir. So, don't wait until you've got 64GB of RAM before you start makin music!
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jdog-ho-gold-template-wip-mp3.18588/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Love it man. You're very talented!


----------



## novaburst (Feb 21, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> How much RAM you got?
> Here's a work in progress I've recently been throwing together to help build a template using only Hollywood Orchestra Gold + Hollywood Choirs. Still mixing and making changes, but I wanted to see how convincingly I could 'fake' a more distant mic perspective, using only the one "main" mic provided with gold. So this mix is fairly 'distant' (and sizzly!). But all up this was using about 24GB of RAM for a full orchestra plus choir. So, don't wait until you've got 64GB of RAM before you start makin music!
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jdog-ho-gold-template-wip-mp3.18588/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Nice


----------



## dzilizzi (Feb 21, 2019)

My only complaint about the Diamond version was the naming convention - some filenames hit the "filename too long" error in Windows 7 and wouldn't copy. And it has to do with their structure on the HDD they send out not where I was putting it because I tried copying to the base drive and not the folder and still got the error. I bought/made an external SSD drive now, so I may try copying it using my Windows 10 computer and see if it was just Windows 7 that was the problem. 

I think they were all woodwind patches.


----------



## JohnG (Feb 21, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> My only complaint about the Diamond version was the naming convention - some filenames hit the "filename too long" error in Windows 7



huh
I never ran into that but I don't have the woodwinds. Strings and brass are A-ok.


----------



## dzilizzi (Feb 21, 2019)

JohnG said:


> huh
> I never ran into that but I don't have the woodwinds. Strings and brass are A-ok.


Some of the filenames in the contrabass instruments (i.e. the clarinet) are really long to start with. Add six levels of folders with long names and it really hits the limit. Didn't have an issue with the strings or the brass.


----------



## Divico (Feb 21, 2019)

To the people owning Diamond, how many mics do you use?
I cant load more than one (RAM hog) and plan to load all 4 just for bouncing (track by track)


----------



## JohnG (Feb 21, 2019)

Divico said:


> To the people owning Diamond, how many mics do you use?
> I cant load more than one (RAM hog) and plan to load all 4 just for bouncing (track by track)



It's not so much using them all together, all at once. The reason I like having Diamond is that sometimes I want the music to sound more like a recorded song, which uses one set of mics, and sometimes "far away and huge" which uses another. 

It's not like I revisit mic positions for every cue. For some scores I rebalance often; other times, I set-and-forget for most/all of a project.

I don't load four mic positions ever, that's for sure. I think mostly two for main instruments, though sometimes if I have a really exposed cello line (or similar) I might load more than two. That's rare.



dzilizzi said:


> Add six levels of folders



does that affect things in Windows 7? Would altering the way you nest the folders help?


----------



## dzilizzi (Feb 21, 2019)

All the nested folders count towards the filename limit. I may have to try moving the folders on the actual drive that comes from EW, but it may not work because I would still be dealing with the starting name size. There is supposedly something you can do in the registry, but it comes with a whole lot of warnings if you mess it up. I just keep forgetting to try copying it when I have my non-music Windows 10 open.


----------



## JohnG (Feb 21, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> I may have to try moving the folders on the actual drive that comes from EW



I wouldn't run off EW's delivery HDD, unless you have a backup somewhere. Besides, trying to run HS off a non-SSD will drive you (get it? "drive" you?) crazy. 

Buy an SSD or you will just spin (get it? "spin?") in circles with HS, or have to use a monumental buffer, or both. I just replaced a couple of drives, while moving to a new PC, and I can't believe how cheap a 1TB SSD has gotten.


----------



## dzilizzi (Feb 21, 2019)

JohnG said:


> I wouldn't run off EW's delivery HDD, unless you have a backup somewhere. Besides, trying to run HS off a non-SSD will drive you (get it? "drive" you?) crazy.
> 
> Buy an SSD or you will just spin (get it? "spin?") in circles with HS, or have to use a monumental buffer, or both. I just replaced a couple of drives, while moving to a new PC, and I can't believe how cheap a 1TB SSD has gotten.


Oh, no, I was saying I would move the files on the EW drive so I can actually copy them to my SSD. The EW Drive is 5400 RPM - I never use anything less than 7200 RPM. And EW does run on a 7200 RPM drive as long as you have enough RAM and don't go crazy with articulations. At least so far it has worked. And I got an SSD to use with it, but the copying issue slowed me down.


----------



## Casiquire (Feb 21, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> How much RAM you got?
> Here's a work in progress I've recently been throwing together to help build a template using only Hollywood Orchestra Gold + Hollywood Choirs. Still mixing and making changes, but I wanted to see how convincingly I could 'fake' a more distant mic perspective, using only the one "main" mic provided with gold. So this mix is fairly 'distant' (and sizzly!). But all up this was using about 24GB of RAM for a full orchestra plus choir. So, don't wait until you've got 64GB of RAM before you start makin music!
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jdog-ho-gold-template-wip-mp3.18588/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Wonderful work! The amount of talent in these forums is fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Feb 21, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Love it man. You're very talented!





novaburst said:


> Nice





Casiquire said:


> Wonderful work! The amount of talent in these forums is fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing.


Thanks a lot guys!
So yeah, my thoughts on EW Hollywood Orchestra are pretty positive.


----------



## JPComposer (Feb 21, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> All the nested folders count towards the filename limit. I may have to try moving the folders on the actual drive that comes from EW, but it may not work because I would still be dealing with the starting name size. There is supposedly something you can do in the registry, but it comes with a whole lot of warnings if you mess it up. I just keep forgetting to try copying it when I have my non-music Windows 10 open.



I renamed the top folder to HOW first, then it copied across ok.


----------



## dzilizzi (Feb 22, 2019)

JPComposer said:


> I renamed the top folder to HOW first, then it copied across ok.


I was able to do it on my Windows 10 computer to an external SSD. I will probably just move the external drive between my laptop and studio computer as needed. Like I do with my iLok & elicenser. If I want to put it on an internal drive on my studio computer, I will either have to do it externally then put it in or upgrade to 10. And? I may have to in a year anyway.


----------



## Dominik Raab (Feb 22, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> +1 on all that. I have composer cloud plus and EW on a whole is hit or miss. The clarinet essemble......i cant even describe it...just awful. The flute is passable at best.



I know I'm late, but I'd really like to know what instrument you're talking about. "Clarinet ensemble" made my ears twitch. Are you referring to the different solo clarinets (bass clarinet, etc.) in HOW, which does not have ensembles? Or are we talking Symphonic Orchestra ensemble patches here?

Not trying to contradict you here, I just really don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## Robert_G (Feb 22, 2019)

Dominik Raab said:


> I know I'm late, but I'd really like to know what instrument you're talking about. "Clarinet ensemble" made my ears twitch. Are you referring to the different solo clarinets (bass clarinet, etc.) in HOW, which does not have ensembles? Or are we talking Symphonic Orchestra ensemble patches here?
> 
> Not trying to contradict you here, I just really don't know what you're talking about.



Sorry. That was definitely my bad. I don't know why I called it an 'ensemble' when its not. Too many instruments on my mind sometimes...lol. Nonetheless...EW Hollywood Clarinet sounds so fake and processed. Listen to the one from 8Dio and then play the one on EW Hollywood Woodwinds and the difference is so easy to see.


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 25, 2019)

Looking forward to using this!


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 25, 2019)

I also forgot how nice it is to buy something and it arrive in the mail unlike just buying samples and downloading them.


----------



## stfciu (Feb 25, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I also forgot how nice it is to buy something and it arrive in the mail unlike just buying samples and downloading them.



True.
Nice poster btw


----------



## PeterKorcek (Feb 25, 2019)

Get to tha chopaaaa! Is it Predator?

Otherwise, yeah, sound of Hollywood series is spot-on, versatile, dry, Hollywood-like :-D


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 25, 2019)

PeterKorcek said:


> Get to tha chopaaaa! Is it Predator?
> 
> Otherwise, yeah, sound of Hollywood series is spot-on, versatile, dry, Hollywood-like :-D



“What’s the matter Dylan? CIA got you pushin too many Pencils”


----------



## DS_Joost (Feb 25, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I also forgot how nice it is to buy something and it arrive in the mail unlike just buying samples and downloading them.



Yup, nothing like opening a brand new package! Now install it, load up Play, and for your first test run immediately open the Brass and search for the 6 french horns legato accent slur patch and enjoy one of the most adventerous and frankly awesome horn sounds in all of sampledom! (don't forget the reverb!)

Try to keep a set of tissues on hand though for all the tears of joy you will be crying!


----------



## novaburst (Feb 25, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Looking forward to using this!



This actually looks mouth watering 

Hope it works out for you, I think with patience you will go a long way with that but you will need to eat those vegetables, don't taste so good but are the best for the body

Good luck


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 25, 2019)

Haven’t had a chance to try them out yet as I’m not at home but I have just ordered a Sonnet Tempo Pro pci-e Card for my Mac Pro 5,1 so my plan is to raid0 2 x SSDs and run it off that. It should give fast enough perfomance. Hopefully.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 25, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I also forgot how nice it is to buy something and it arrive in the mail unlike just buying samples and downloading them.



Always been a fan of boxed editions, whenever I can I buy boxed. Have fun.


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 26, 2019)

And that's just Hollywood Strings. Kind of chuckling to myself at the gluttony and state of affairs and this stuff. I've got SA HZ Piano and that clocked in at a massive 250gb but EW HOS now takes the crown for largest library. Wondering if there's anything commercially available (at the minute) bigger than the HOS? Definitely more SSDs needed then! Haha!


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 26, 2019)

DS_Joost said:


> and for your first test run immediately open the Brass and search for the 6 french horns legato accent slur patch and enjoy one of the most adventerous and frankly awesome horn sounds in all of sampledom!



Man, it sounds glorious. Loving this purchase. Gotta order a new SSD next week so I can copy over Perc and Winds and then I can try those out too.
HS sounds amazing too.


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 27, 2019)

So Altiverb and HOS sounds amazing. FFS, this library is massive in scope. Anyone got any advice on using Reverb with the different HO Libraries? Any tutorials on using these or is just reading each manual all I need to know?


----------



## DS_Joost (Feb 27, 2019)

They are placed already. I use an instance of Spaces. It has a section with separate impulses for the different sections. Works fantastically!


----------



## AllanH (Feb 27, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> So Altiverb and HOS sounds amazing. FFS, this library is massive in scope. Anyone got any advice on using Reverb with the different HO Libraries? Any tutorials on using these or is just reading each manual all I need to know?



A good starting point is the reverb built in to each instrument. This gives you a very good idea of a suggested start with Spaces, at least.


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 27, 2019)

AllanH said:


> A good starting point is the reverb built in to each instrument. This gives you a very good idea of a suggested start with Spaces, at least.



Yeah have been playing around with it (I also own spaces). Am eager to put Altiverb to good use but you are right. I have just been playing about on different patches at minute and there are so many. It’s great. Have absolutely no idea what to put in a template at this point so will probably just load up the template patches and write something with them and use built in Reverb to see how it all sounds. I’m guessing the suggested reverbs work with HOB etc as well and by design.


----------



## Johnny (Feb 27, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I also forgot how nice it is to buy something and it arrive in the mail unlike just buying samples and downloading them.


There is something to be said about that and I really feel this as well. Often times, I will reach for an EW product 90% of the time merely because I see the box on my wall. Seeing the graphic art and a physical copy of a library is far more attractive and accessible to my mind than sifting through my hard drive 
Great marketing!


----------



## jononotbono (Feb 27, 2019)

At least when i die I can leave the box to somebody.


----------



## Zero&One (Mar 12, 2019)

I see EW Hollywood is on sale again... I'm hovering over the buy button again!
How you finding it after a few weeks? I'd be only getting the Gold, not sure if just the strings, woods or the whole bundle.


----------



## cqd (Mar 12, 2019)

Get the whole lot.. it's all nice..I just have the gold..some reverb on the brass and it rocks..


----------



## jononotbono (Mar 12, 2019)

James H said:


> I see EW Hollywood is on sale again... I'm hovering over the buy button again!
> How you finding it after a few weeks? I'd be only getting the Gold, not sure if just the strings, woods or the whole bundle.



Love the Strings and Brass. Haven't tried Winds or Perc. Buying HOD wiped my SSD space and now have to buy more SSDs (actually building a new computer and added a new slave - which is why it may take a while before I try the other two out). Essentially, I think the new slave I have (currently being delivered) is going to be dedicated just for the East West stuff. It's rather hungry on resources. But yeah, HS is just amazing (if you want a String choir with that many players and obviously that sound). Definitely glad I bought it and will likely take me all year to get to grips with it all. There's A LOT of patches and options.


----------



## jononotbono (Apr 3, 2019)

I've nearly finished reading the HS Diamond Manual. The library is a beast. I am curious, does the Mod have to control Vib? Or can this be changed as per pretty much every other library I own?


----------



## Robert_G (Apr 3, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I've nearly finished reading the HS Diamond Manual. The library is a beast. I am curious, does the Mod have to control Vib? Or can this be changed as per pretty much every other library I own?



Sorry...but trying to program or tinker with anything in EW is a headache. 
You've probably already figured out by now that the mod wheel does different things for different patches...
Thankfully the strings and brass are really nice without any tinkering.


----------



## jononotbono (Apr 3, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Sorry...but trying to program or tinker with anything in EW is a headache.
> You've probably already figured out by now that the mod wheel does different things for different patches...
> Thankfully the strings and brass are really nice without any tinkering.



Yeah, ok, I'll just leave as is and memorise it all.


----------



## Dex (Apr 3, 2019)

No you can't change any of it inside Play.

You might be able to set up a midi remapper before Play in your DAW, though.


----------



## jneebz (Apr 3, 2019)

Maybe these will be helpful? I'm pretty sure I got these somewhere on VI-C....apologies to the wonderful human who created them...


----------



## Dewdman42 (Apr 3, 2019)

can you please post those as an attachment?


----------



## jononotbono (Apr 4, 2019)

jneebz said:


> Maybe these will be helpful? I'm pretty sure I got these somewhere on VI-C....apologies to the wonderful human who created them...



Thank you for this! Amazing!


----------



## jneebz (Apr 4, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> can you please post those as an attachment?



[EDIT] - Found the original, thanks @ZenFaced!
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/hollywood-strings-patch-suggestions-for-template.75608/


----------



## curtisschweitzer (Apr 4, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Sorry...but trying to program or tinker with anything in EW is a headache.
> You've probably already figured out by now that the mod wheel does different things for different patches...
> Thankfully the strings and brass are really nice without any tinkering.



Modwheel generally changes things that notably shift the tone color, while expression is typically used for volume that doesn't shift the overall sonic texture. This is why in HS overall volume is controlled by expression, but in HB modulation changes volume. Brass dynamics inherently shift the texture of the instrument-- again this is why in HW the Clarinet uses modulation for dynamics but flutes don't. Sometimes this is a matter of opinion/taste on individual patches (I'm vaguely recalling that there are some squirrely bits in some of the HS tremolo patches, I think?), but it is actually quite consistent throughout HO. If an instrument has a notably wide range of vibrato control, modulation will be assigned to it because that shifts the texture more than the dynamics do, etc. (This also gets complicated in HS given that volume and vibrato often interact). 

I have spent a lot more time with EW libraries than others, and so I find EW stuff much easier to program, and actually quite consistent once you get used to it. Personally I find them much closer to the "real instruments" in how you think about them, even if that sometimes comes with complexity that other libraries omit or gloss over.


----------



## Ashermusic (Apr 4, 2019)

curtisschweitzer said:


> Modwheel generally changes things that notably shift the tone color, while expression is typically used for volume that doesn't shift the overall sonic texture. This is why in HS overall volume is controlled by expression, but in HB modulation changes volume. Brass dynamics inherently shift the texture of the instrument-- again this is why in HW the Clarinet uses modulation for dynamics but flutes don't. Sometimes this is a matter of opinion/taste on individual patches (I'm vaguely recalling that there are some squirrely bits in some of the HS tremolo patches, I think?), but it is actually quite consistent throughout HO. If an instrument has a notably wide range of vibrato control, modulation will be assigned to it because that shifts the texture more than the dynamics do, etc. (This also gets complicated in HS given that volume and vibrato often interact).
> 
> I have spent a lot more time with EW libraries than others, and so I find EW stuff much easier to program, and actually quite consistent once you get used to it. Personally I find them much closer to the "real instruments" in how you think about them, even if that sometimes comes with complexity that other libraries omit or gloss over.



The problem is, that the behavior is different with different patches, especially in HS. The "powerful system" patches will use CC11 for expression ands CC1 for vibrato while the non-powerful ones use CC1 only. And the other Hollywood libraries are different than HS. So it confuses people.

Bottom line, is you need to spend some serious time with HO, choosing your instrument patches and learning how they work.


----------



## curtisschweitzer (Apr 4, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Bottom line, is you need to spend some serious time with HO, choosing your instrument patches and learning how they work.



Absolutely right. Fortunately, it rewards you greatly for doing so.


----------



## Ashermusic (Apr 4, 2019)

curtisschweitzer said:


> Absolutely right. Fortunately, it rewards you greatly for doing so.




Agreed. With all due respect to the competitive products, and there are some great ones out there, I don't think there is anything significantly better than HO and the ones that are competitive are now much more money.

My view on that may change once we have Cinematic Studio Woodwinds, Percussion, Choir and Harp


----------



## shawnsingh (Apr 4, 2019)

I have gold version from composer cloud. Is that a mixdown of all the diamond mics, it is it just the Decca tree? Also does diamond proving the Decca LR and Decca center as separate mic positions?

I love the room sound in gold. The early reflections have such a nice presence - it melts away into additional reverb, but leaves an enhancement to the bite and power and expressiveness of the instruments.


----------



## dcoscina (Apr 4, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Agreed. With all due respect to the competitive products, and there are some great ones out there, I don't think there is anything significantly better than HO and the ones that are competitive are now much more money.
> 
> My view on that may change once we have Cinematic Studio Woodwinds, Percussion, Choir and Harp


Agreed. For the money, and what EWHO offers, it's really still the best value:quality out there. If I had to start over (hopefully I won't) I would begin there because it gives you the most instruments, and a traditional assortment where one can orchestrate all of the sections and individual instruments of the orchestra rather than prescribed groupings from the developer.


----------



## Robert_G (Apr 4, 2019)

dcoscina said:


> Agreed. For the money, and what EWHO offers, it's really still the best value:quality out there. If I had to start over (hopefully I won't) I would begin there because......



As someone who started the same....with EW composer cloud , I would agree its the best place to start....but not a place to linger in.


----------



## José Herring (Apr 4, 2019)

Great all around library. Not dated in the least bit. Recording still sounds fresh. 

I use it as a base and use other libraries to supplement its weakness. I find the bones to be very weak for example. Trumpets too. Horns are to die for. 

Strings great tone but a mixed bag of patches. Still haven't made it through every articulation in all these years. It can achieve impressive results though but I haven't been able to rely on it as my only library.

If I were starting all over again I would get strings and brass from HO as my first purchase.

Disclaimer: I have received one free product from EW and I find them to be really nice people in spite of all the vitriol that has been spewed about them. But that doesn't taint my opinions. I've been a user of their libraries for over 10 years now and still use my original EWSO library and still love it.


----------



## shawnsingh (Apr 4, 2019)

josejherring said:


> I find the bones to be very weak for example. Trumpets too. Horns are to die for.



I love the trumpets. Can get that silvery power bite without being unpleasantly piercing. Agreed about the trombones though, especially I miss having a staccatissimo for agile passages.


----------



## José Herring (Apr 4, 2019)

shawnsingh said:


> I love the trumpets. Can get that silvery power bite without being unpleasantly piercing. Agreed about the trombones though, especially I miss having a staccatissimo for agile passages.



You have any tips? I personally haven't been able to use the trumpets for much. I like the 2 ensemble patches though and have tried to use them but I just end up turning to other libraries after a while. 

Is there a patch that you really like?


----------



## shawnsingh (Apr 4, 2019)

josejherring said:


> You have any tips? I personally haven't been able to use the trumpets for much. I like the 2 ensemble patches though and have tried to use them but I just end up turning to other libraries after a while.
> 
> Is there a patch that you really like?



For me, the combo patches are great workhorses - shorts mod speed, sus accent, sus marcato, and legato are the 4 main patches I find myself using. I set up expression maps to keyswitch between them

One of the coolest things I like about sus accent and sus marcato - it gives the ability to sculpt note attacks in a variety of ways. With these two combos, it's possible to get 3 different attack types (accent layer, marcato layer, or the normal sustain), each with subtle differences at each velocity layer, and all those possibilities combined with using CC1 to sculpt the attack as well, including the second half of the attack and how it stitches into the rest of the sustain. Sculpting the second half of attack on notes is really where it becomes possible to tune the character of the performances, and I feel happy that it's pretty versatile to do that with these combo patches.

example -  at 9:08 brass swells with lots of varied kinds of rounded accents of different speeds and shapes - also after that phrase, it kicks into "over the top" mode, where the chords get more aggressive, but still riding the CC between 90 and 127 even when it's supposed to feel like it's at "max". I think I used sus marcato for most of the swell-accent fortepiano-like chords.

As for the silvery power of the trumpets, it comes in handy on climactic moments. Both the solo and a3 trumpets work well for this - what works for me is to hold back on CC1 just a little bit until you really want the power and intensity to crescendo, and then you gradually let that overblown silvery sound come in.

some examples where I've done this:
http://suonlabs.com/1dJ9oQsD.mp3 - trumpet line at 2:40 is constantly just barely riding underneath that silvery power line, and crossing it slightly (e.g. at 2:55 and 3:01 and 3:08), and then definitely pushing it at 3:13 and 3:15.

the silvery power also works with shorts - http://suonlabs.com/work-in-progress.mp3 I used solo trumpets on staccatissimo to emulate double tonguing at 0:56 - 1:11. The passage before that from 0:42 to 0:55, I can't remember if that's EWQL a3 trumpets only, or if I had layered Metropolis Ark trumpets too.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 5, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> As someone who started the same....with EW composer cloud , I would agree its the best place to start....but not a place to linger in.



Why not? I've been lingering with EW since Orchestral Gold XP (2008). I have tried several string/orch libs (and own many), and IMO it's still the best out there. I used HO for numerous professional productions....everything from feature length film and tv commercials, to trailers and live theatre. It is that good. As Jay Asher mentioned, one needs to commit some time to learning these libraries, they do not simply work out-of-the-box.


----------



## Ashermusic (Apr 5, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Why not? I've been lingering with EW since Orchestral Gold XP (2008). I have tried several string/orch libs (and own many), and IMO it's still the best out there. I used HO for numerous professional productions....everything from feature length film and tv commercials, to trailers and live theatre. It is that good. As Jay Asher mentioned, one needs to commit some time to learning these libraries, they do not simply work out-of-the-box.



Of course, he stated a subjective opinion at best, silly at worst.


----------



## Robert_G (Apr 5, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Why not? I've been lingering with EW since Orchestral Gold XP (2008). I have tried several string/orch libs (and own many), and IMO it's still the best out there. I used HO for numerous professional productions....everything from feature length film and tv commercials, to trailers and live theatre. It is that good. As Jay Asher mentioned, one needs to commit some time to learning these libraries, they do not simply work out-of-the-box.



You answered your own question. Why use the library that takes hours to make it work when other libraries only take minutes?

Ie....I have Emotional Cello. The master patch has about 20 articulations on a KS patch. It is an absolute joy to use. Nevermind the sound quality difference over EWH solo cello....no serious composer in his right mind would ever choose EWH solo cello over Emotional Cello.

Same with CSS. The main KS patch will do 95% of your work....right out of the box. I can use HWEW if I really need a fancy articulation ....but that is becoming more rare as I gain experience as a composer.

Then there is the programming.....
EW continues to dig in their heals and refuses to add a swell/dynamics knob....which is one of many things that makes Kontakt libs so easy to use.

EW wont put speed knobs on their legatos....again....simple things that make programing easier.

And dont get me started on them insisting EW pianos dont need a color/tone knob.....worst pianos on the market.

At the end of the day you get CC11 and are expected to make it all pretty with that....and only that.


----------



## Ashermusic (Apr 5, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> You answered your own question. Why use the library that takes hours to make it work when other libraries only take minutes?
> 
> Same with CSS. The main KS patch will do 95% of your work....right out of the box. I can use HWEW if I really need a fancy articulation ....but that is becoming more rare as I gain experience as a composer.
> 
> ...



Again, nonsense. It takes "hours to make it work" only if you don't know really how to work it. I can get the results I am seeking quickly because I know what I am doing with it. And much as I love CSS there are things I can do with HS that I cannot with CSS. But yes, the programming with CSS makes it easy for many tasks and does not require knowing it as well as HS does. But easiest is not always best. That attitude has led too a lot of crappy music nowadays 

The pianos are not part of the Hollywood Orchestra, so a different conversation. I don't love them either.


----------



## Robert_G (Apr 5, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Again, nonsense. It takes "hours to make it work" only if you don't know really how to work it. I can get the results I am seeking quickly because I know what I am doing with it. And much as I love CSS there are things I can do with HS that I cannot with CSS.



So how quickly can you program legato speed in EW? Wouldnt you rather a simple midi knob? 

How does having useful midi knobs contribute to crappy music? You made a statement with no evidence or explanation.


----------



## shawnsingh (Apr 5, 2019)

There's room enough for different workflows, some will work well with some libraries and not others. And everyone will prioritize differently between effort, results, and their way of working.

Makes sense if HO is terrible for some people and brilliant for some others.


----------



## Robert_G (Apr 5, 2019)

shawnsingh said:


> Makes sense if HO is terrible for some people and brilliant for some others.



I would never say that HO is terrible. Just frustrating because it would be so simple for EW to make it awesome with a few adjustments.

I still use it....especially the 6 horns. 
The harps have some speciality patches I love to use...and most instruments have patches that you wont find in other libs....so it is useful....just wish they would improve the ease of use.

The HW solo strings are brutal though....in every way.


----------



## Ashermusic (Apr 5, 2019)

-


Robert_G said:


> So how quickly can you program legato speed in EW? Wouldnt you rather a simple midi knob?
> 
> How does having useful midi knobs contribute to crappy music? You made a statement with no evidence or explanation.



Sure, that would be a nice feature. And there are things in CSS that are a pain in the ass as well.

I have neither the time or inclination to continue arguing with you. I stand by my statement that if you can't make great sounding music with HO in a reasonable amount of time you simply lack the skill with it to do so. 

And my comment about crappy music meant just what I said, the idea that whatever is easiest is synonymous for some with what is best.


----------



## hdsmile (Apr 5, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> And dont get me started on them insisting EW pianos dont need a color/tone knob.....worst pianos on the market



regarding sound, the EW Pianos Platinum Edition is one of the best grand pianos on the market!
especially the platinum - Steinway & Platinum - Bechstein.


----------



## Robert_G (Apr 5, 2019)

hdsmile said:


> regarding sound, the EW Pianos Platinum Edition is one of the best grand pianos on the market!
> especially the platinum - Steinway & Platinum - Bechstein.



Until you play a run of notes and accidently change velocities....worst velocity transitions ive ever seen.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 5, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> You answered your own question. Why use the library that takes hours to make it work when other libraries only take minutes?



Because like I mentioned, the EW stuff sounds better to me (just my opinion of course). It always humours me when people buy a product and then expect it to work within minutes. Manuals are there for a reason.

BTW- legato speeds are controlled by velocity in HS. 

Not sure what you mean about EW refusing to add a swell/dynamics knob. CC's are fully assignable by right clicking and choosing MIDI Learn.....just like Kontakt. Also, a large chunk of the HO patches already utilize the MOD wheel for this.

EW Pianos are the worst on the market? All a matter of opinion, but I definitely wouldn't label them as the worst. I personally like them, and use them regularly.


----------



## Robert_G (Apr 5, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Manuals are there for a reason.
> 
> BTW- legato speeds are controlled by velocity in HS.
> 
> Not sure what you mean about EW refusing to add a swell/dynamics knob. CC's are fully assignable by right clicking and choosing MIDI Learn.....just like Kontakt. Also, a large chunk of the HO patches already utilize the MOD wheel for this



As for legato speed with velocity....i hate that method....but that may be a matter of preference and as a lifelong pianist, the idea of hitting the keyboard harder or softer to control legato speed just isnt natural for me.


----------



## curtisschweitzer (Apr 5, 2019)

shawnsingh said:


> There's room enough for different workflows, some will work well with some libraries and not others. And everyone will prioritize differently between effort, results, and their way of working.
> 
> Makes sense if HO is terrible for some people and brilliant for some others.



I think this means that HO *isn't terrible at all*, but some people just have different preferences. I'm sure there are libraries on the market that I would find more difficult to use than HO, but that is a problem with my approach to them, not with those libraries.


----------



## curtisschweitzer (Apr 5, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> So how quickly can you program legato speed in EW? Wouldnt you rather a simple midi knob?



Simple answer, no. I much prefer it. 

If HO used a midi knob for this I would find it more, not less, difficult to use. And if I refused to accept that it used a midi knob instead of velocity, I think it would be my own mistake just as much as refusing to work with the idiosyncrasies of real instruments.


----------



## JohnMarkPainter (Nov 9, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> I would never say that HO is terrible. Just frustrating because it would be so simple for EW to make it awesome with a few adjustments.
> 
> I still use it....especially the 6 horns.
> The harps have some speciality patches I love to use...and most instruments have patches that you wont find in other libs....so it is useful....just wish they would improve the ease of use.
> ...


Thanks for mentioning the 6 Horns. GOOD

I have EW and keep thinking I hate it because I try the worst patches when needing something specific. The phasing on so many of the solo presets is terrible if you are playing something exposed.

You just have to dig through and see what is good and what isn't.


----------



## hdsmile (Nov 9, 2019)

100% Agree!


----------



## 5Lives (Nov 9, 2019)

In case it'll help somebody - a very rough quick comparison of solo French Horn from HOB (Leg Slur Rep patch), Cinematic Studio Brass, and CineBrass Core - in that order. This isn't my MIDI file so I didn't tweak it too much apart from CC1, but for CSB, modified the velocities in a couple of places to change the legato speed and also one section to trigger the repeated note feature. CineBrass is just the true legato patch they have. I'm not the best programmer by any stretch of the imagination, but I personally like the tone and smoothness of CSB compared to the other two. Very easy to program as well (and pretty full featured in terms of legato speeds, repetitions, etc).


----------



## JohnMarkPainter (Nov 9, 2019)

5Lives said:


> In case it'll help somebody - a very rough quick comparison of solo French Horn from HOB (Leg Slur Rep patch), Cinematic Studio Brass, and CineBrass Core - in that order. This isn't my MIDI file so I didn't tweak it too much apart from CC1, but for CSB, modified the velocities in a couple of places to change the legato speed and also one section to trigger the repeated note feature. CineBrass is just the true legato patch they have. I'm not the best programmer by any stretch of the imagination, but I personally like the tone and smoothness of CSB compared to the other two. Very easy to program as well (and pretty full featured in terms of legato speeds, repetitions, etc).


Yikes....HOB is terrible.

I like some things about that last clip the best. There are parts so it that sound very real. I am a Horn player (not my first or second for that matter...instrument).

I'll have to look into those libs.


----------



## hdsmile (Nov 9, 2019)

I don’t know who and how used these patches, but the last example sounds best, probably it’s the CineBrass Core or?


----------



## 5Lives (Nov 9, 2019)

hdsmile said:


> I don’t know who and how used these patches, but the last example sounds best, probably it’s the CineBrass Core or?



Yes it’s Cinebrass Core. Once again, just the MIDI I found running through these patches with some CC1 added. I’m sure you can make all three sound better but if you can spend less time achieving a good result with one and you like the tone, that’s objectively a better library. To me, that’s CSB.


----------



## cqd (Nov 9, 2019)

Hollywood Brass definitely needs reverb too though..a decent reverb and it's as good as any of them..


----------



## ThomasJ.Curran (Nov 10, 2019)

I use EWHB all the time. I think it sounds fantastic! As mentioned above deffo needs a good reverb to really bring it to life. The 6 horn legato patch is probably my most used brass patch ever.


----------



## EgM (Nov 10, 2019)

5Lives said:


> In case it'll help somebody - a very rough quick comparison of solo French Horn from HOB (Leg Slur Rep patch), Cinematic Studio Brass, and CineBrass Core - in that order. This isn't my MIDI file so I didn't tweak it too much apart from CC1, but for CSB, modified the velocities in a couple of places to change the legato speed and also one section to trigger the repeated note feature. CineBrass is just the true legato patch they have. I'm not the best programmer by any stretch of the imagination, but I personally like the tone and smoothness of CSB compared to the other two. Very easy to program as well (and pretty full featured in terms of legato speeds, repetitions, etc).



Why are you using legato repetition patch for a standard legato part? Legato rep is for repeating the same notes.


----------



## JohnMarkPainter (Nov 10, 2019)

EgM said:


> Why are you using legato repetition patch for a standard legato part? Legato rep is for repeating the same notes.


I Was actually JUST trying the standard Legato Slur Solo Horn. 
It has issues...playing low dynamics, often the release and/or legato play way too loud causing odd artifacts.

The "good reverb bringing it to life" is covering up the artifacts.


----------



## JohnMarkPainter (Nov 10, 2019)

The Slur Rep is seems worse in that regard. On transitions, it sounds like two horns are playing, then it goes lifeless on the sustain.
Riding the Mod Wheel masks it.


----------



## 5Lives (Nov 10, 2019)

I had tried Leg Slur as well - it sounded similar. There is one repetition in the line, so I changed to Leg Slur Rep. The manual seemed to indicate it would be able to play the line PLUS the repetition (not only repetitions). An example of how confusing HO’s patch naming and structure is in my opinion.


----------



## S R Krishnan (Nov 10, 2019)

Hollywood Orchestra - Quick mockup

Had some time to today to play with the Hollywood Orchestra :D


----------



## sIR dORT (Nov 11, 2019)

One thing about comparing libs is that you can make great libraries sound horrible by demonstrating the uses where they do not excel. In the demo, there's one line, and it obviously reflects that CSB and CineBrass are better for that type of line. But what about slower, more drawn-out lines? Maybe it's still not as good, but HWB's legato probably lends itself to slower, grander lines, but you might not pick up on that from the demo.


----------



## 98bpm (Nov 23, 2019)

S R Krishnan said:


> Hollywood Orchestra - Quick mockup
> 
> Had some time to today to play with the Hollywood Orchestra :D


Very Nice!


----------



## S R Krishnan (Nov 23, 2019)

98bpm said:


> Very Nice!


Thank you


----------

