# Writing in divisi



## Resoded (Oct 24, 2011)

I recently got LASS and I'm going to try out doing a short piece in divisi. I've already written something that I want to apply it to.

My question is this, how should I think about using divisi? If I for example already have violins, violas and cellos playing a triad, should I make the violins divisi into three sections and have them play the same notes as the triad?

Or should I write something more for the divisis, so I already have the triad and add even more notes?

Or should I approach it in a completely different way?

This is a bit hard to explain for me due to my limited knowledge of theory, though I hope I got the message through. 

Thanks for any help!


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## FredrikJonasson (Oct 24, 2011)

I would like to think about it the other way around: You don't write for divisi for the divisi feature's sake, but when you need to ad a note for some reason, like in a coloured chord or when you want to double some notes, the violas or the instrument of your choice covers that while maintaining the player count. 

This is how I mostly look at arranging: Basses play the lowest note, cello the second lowest et.c.. 

Im in the middle of an essay, so sorry if I'm mumbling! 

Fredrik


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## J van E (Oct 24, 2011)

I haven't worked with divisi yet (hope to be able to do so in the near future) but I also wouldn't use it just because you can. I would use it to let specific instruments play in octaves. Or to add extra notes (there are more then three notes you can use at one time  ). You could also let a divisi double another instrument and make various combinations that way, even in one melody line. Break out of the box, I'd say. 

BTW I also try to avoid letting the basses play the lowest note, the cello the second lowest, etc. I like it when instruments change place, so to speak. It makes things much more alive and interesting. Nothing more boring than strings playing exact triads all the time. 

But hey, what do I know. I'm new to all this.  I never thought in triads. (Yet.)


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## Resoded (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks for the replies!



FredrikJonasson @ 24th October 2011 said:


> I would like to think about it the other way around: You don't write for divisi for the divisi feature's sake, but when you need to ad a note for some reason, like in a coloured chord or when you want to double some notes, the violas or the instrument of your choice covers that while maintaining the player count.
> 
> This is how I mostly look at arranging: Basses play the lowest note, cello the second lowest et.c..
> 
> ...



Yeah that makes sense. Though I've heard a lot of people talking about how divisi adds to the sound and makes it richer? I was under the impression that divisi was something you could use in midi mock ups to make them sound better.

Listening to your stuff btw as I'm writing this post. Very nice! Dark Matter was great.


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## JT3_Jon (Oct 24, 2011)

Divisi works like this - If you have 16 1st violins, and you write a line that splits them into octaves, this means you'd have 8 playing the top octave, and 8 playing the bottom octave. This changes the sound of the section, as you now have half as many players playing each note. (Note, this is oversimplified, but you get the idea). 

For mockups, if you're using a violin patch that has 16 players, when you then play the patch in octaves you're playing with 32 players (16 on the top octave, and 16 on the bottom), which is not what would happen with real players, as obviously the size of your 1st violins will not suddenly double when you play in octaves.  So using a divisi string library can add this realism into back into mockups when such writing occurs. 

Divisi on its own does not add richness to the sound. If anything it takes it away, as you have less players on each note. 

Whether or not this is important to you, or if it makes your mockups sound "more real" is completely up to you. Whats interesting is when my work is only for "synth orchestra" I may NOT to use divisi patches (or at least not exclusively) when I want I nice full sound throughout, regardless of how I voice my parts. Is this "real," no, but IMO its not always about sounding "real," but sounding "good." 

BTW, another great trick for divisi libs is to use a small section to layer over a larger section from another library. This gives you the ability to weave your sound between these two "sections," adding more life to the mockup. Once again, this isn't "real," as this would never happen in a real string orchestra, but it can help the mockup sound more musical IMO. Perhaps this is what people mean when you've read that divisi adds richness, as they are using them on top?


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## FredrikJonasson (Oct 24, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Oct 24 said:


> Yeah that makes sense. Though I've heard a lot of people talking about how divisi adds to the sound and makes it richer? I was under the impression that divisi was something you could use in midi mock ups to make them sound better.
> 
> Listening to your stuff btw as I'm writing this post. Very nice! Dark Matter was great.



Maybe the last part of JT3_Jons reply nailed it? 

I'm listening a lot to the demos on Audiobro's site right now and I'm trying to decide if the library is what I'm looking for. Do you find it hard to sit in a mix? The sound of LASS just gives me the feeling that you have to spend a lot of time mixing with it? I'm sold at the divisi though!

Oh thank you for listening to my tracks!

Fredrik


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## Resoded (Oct 25, 2011)

JT3_Jon @ 24th October 2011 said:


> Divisi works like this - If you have 16 1st violins, and you write a line that splits them into octaves, this means you'd have 8 playing the top octave, and 8 playing the bottom octave. This changes the sound of the section, as you now have half as many players playing each note. (Note, this is oversimplified, but you get the idea).
> 
> For mockups, if you're using a violin patch that has 16 players, when you then play the patch in octaves you're playing with 32 players (16 on the top octave, and 16 on the bottom), which is not what would happen with real players, as obviously the size of your 1st violins will not suddenly double when you play in octaves.  So using a divisi string library can add this realism into back into mockups when such writing occurs.
> 
> ...



Ah, thanks mate. So I guess it all boils down to "use it when it's needed".


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## Resoded (Oct 25, 2011)

FredrikJonasson @ 25th October 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Oct 24 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah that makes sense. Though I've heard a lot of people talking about how divisi adds to the sound and makes it richer? I was under the impression that divisi was something you could use in midi mock ups to make them sound better.
> ...



I just bought it, but I love the sound of LASS. Especially the Sordino that I bought bundled with the full version.

Yeah, it does need some EQing especially in the highs, but I got the impression by the lass 2.0 update video that they are adding a function so you can mimic the depth of a stage. This may fix some of the EQing needs. They seem to talk a lot about improving the sound right out of the box.


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## J van E (Oct 25, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Oct 24 said:


> Though I've heard a lot of people talking about how divisi adds to the sound and makes it richer?





JT3_Jon @ Mon Oct 24 said:


> Divisi on its own does not add richness to the sound. If anything it takes it away, as you have less players on each note.


I think you guys are talking about two different 'riches', so to speak. I think it's important to make note of that. 

You can make the strings sound richer by adding divisi which (simply put) adds notes, hence making the sound more diverse or... richer! In real life divisi is used to make the sound of the orchestra richer in this 'more notes' sense: you get more harmonies (a chord with more notes than just the basic triad simply sounds richer), you get a lot more things happening left and right, more timbres, etc. etc. Everything becomes richer! So what Resoded heard was correct!

The richness JT3_Jon is talking about is all about a fuller sound (more players), which is a completely different form of 'richer' and has (in fact) nothing to do with (the idea behind) divisi. :wink: Yes, by using divisi the sound may become less full (not necessarly btw) but I think that the right thing to say is that 'divisi on its own ALWAYS adds (real) richness to the sound': that's the reason they invented divisi! :wink: 

Of course in the virtual world you can have both kinds of 'richer' if you want to.

Again, I am all new to this, so I would like the pro's to acknowledge this... or correct me... 8)


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## bryla (Oct 25, 2011)

1. A string section - each instrument playing one note - can make more than just a major or minor triad. It can hold 5 different notes.

2. You could also write double-stops, so your 16 player 1st violin group will play 32 notes! If all sections play double-stops, you can have a 10-note chord!

3. Get a copy of Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings. Study were it's unison and were which sections divide, and listen to it.


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## Frederick Russ (Oct 25, 2011)

This is actually a rather fascinating subject to me. Based on some of the answers here, it appears that the entire premise could probably be divided into 1) typical divisi writing for live string players, and 2) divisi writing in relation to midi mockup (probably to the horror of classical purists). It seems to be all in the matter of what intent the composer has for his/her end game with the score. 

In standard divisi application in relation to sample libraries, great pains are taken to mimic the actual behavior of strings orchestration (16 violins played in unison, split in half, split in thirds, fourths, etc - or divisions of violin sections playing entirely different articulations and parts). This serves particularly well when the original intent is to eventually take the orchestration to the next level of creating individual scores for live string players in recording or live performance. 

In the case with L. A. Scoring Strings as a mockup tool for eventual scoring for real players, another goal could be to try to make the best midi mockup emulation of what a live performance might sound like as the first stage of several to get the composition brought to the highest possible production value via live recording of top notch musicians as a final end game. Live performance was always the goal here. 

In a midi mockup venue however, where the end game is to make the best midi mockup possible without the goal of live recording, the intent has changed where the sound achieved can only be found in the virtual sampled realm instead of employing live players. This is a significant departure from the notion of essentially creating a temp of the score; the midi mockup is no longer a temp stand-in but the actual end game. 

I think it is important to note here that standard orchestration techniques remain to be an integral part of symphonic midi mockup. A good orchestration should always be the goal regardless if the end game is live player venue or the realm of midi mockup sample libraries. The performance of a poorly constructed orchestration cannot necessarily be salvaged by even the best live players. 

A common approach to successfully articulating a good midi mockup is layering. While this is used to enhance the sonic production values it is a rather stark departure from typical string divisi writing. The premise is to utilize whatever sample libraries are at one's disposal to achieve the best overall sound and production values even if it means layering divisi or solo string parts over larger string parts. This is arguably the biggest source of consternation between the live musician camp versus the sampling community. Although their goals are different, the common thread is wanting to achieve the best production given the tools they have at their disposal. If realism cannot be achieved via typical string writing and orchestration using the available libraries then layering and masking is used as a proverbial subtext of smoke and mirrors to hide inconsistencies, note connectivity failures and other shortcomings that are inherent in working with samples versus working with live players.


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## FredrikJonasson (Oct 25, 2011)

J van E @ Tue Oct 25 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Oct 24 said:
> 
> 
> > Though I've heard a lot of people talking about how divisi adds to the sound and makes it richer?
> ...



Yeah, I obviously misunderstood JT3. 

And Frederick Russ - good post. 

Fredrik


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## gsilbers (Oct 25, 2011)

what got me into divisi writing was daniel james composition from that thread about hans zimmer spicc which i was very curious how it was done and he nailed it. 
in summary, a lot of remote control ex hans zimmer use this trick to death. you wont listen to it in the cds but you will a lot in the actual movie as underscore. 
its basically a rhythmic spicc patterns that hovers over a chord (usually a modal cluster) and its very textural. the trick is divisi (and of course good composition  
i know its another way of seen it but thats my take.


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## Peter Alexander (Oct 25, 2011)

At Study Hall at the Alexander Publishing web site, I posted an audio with PDF explaining Divisi.

http://alexanderpublishing.com/studyhall.aspx

Professional Orchestration 2A: Orchestrating the Melody Within the String Section, gives starting examples of divisi writing with a more extended volume coming out later. 
http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products ... 67060.aspx

I cover it in more detail in the Writing For Strings Downloadable course.
http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products/New-Writing-For-Strings-Expanded-2011--Master-Package__AU-WFS-Home-spc-Study-Master.aspx (http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products ... aster.aspx)

Divisi means to divide. In the strings, there's div a 2 (2 parts within a section), div a three (three parts per section) and so on. All of the sections in LASS can be done div a 2, and some div a 3.

One of the great benefits of divisi writing are the colors achievable by creating mini-sections within the string ensemble.

There's also the option of voicing a melody vertically in triads or seventh chords. This is true for pop applications and classical.


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