# Good books that teach music composition?



## Talentless (Jun 17, 2014)

Hey guys, I was just wondering if anyone could recommend a good book for learning music composition. I researched some of the books on VI's "Recommended Reading" list, but it seems like many of those books provide a more encyclopedic/historical account, or focus on teaching just one or two "avant garde" compositional styles. Does anyone know of any books that actually attempt to teach music composition in a more pragmatic, applied manner? 

This is obviously a lofty goal, but I'd like to do whatever I can to learn to compose music that is (as close to being) as complex and as catchy as John Williams' music. I have taken piano lessons for a number of years now, so I have a fairly solid background in music theory in regards to notes, scales, chords/chord progressions, rhythms, etc. 

I have heard good things about Paul Hindemith's "Book 2" which I just ordered, but I'd appreciate it if you guys could recommend other valuable resources as well.


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## davidgary73 (Jun 17, 2014)

Welcome to V.I forum mate. 

Imho, the best way to start or learn music composition is thru pop music. The chords are simple and you get to learn the instruments used and the music arrangement. You can get one of your favorite tunes and transcribe and this will help you to develop ear training as well. 

Another good video i highly recommend is to watch Mike Verta's masterclass @ http://mikeverta.com/wordpress/podcasts ... erclasses/

Cheers


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## The Darris (Jun 18, 2014)

I honestly don't think books can really teach you how to compose, it involves mostly practice, listening, and DOING. If you are wanting to write like John Williams then you need to listen to him and study his music. The next step would be transcribing music. Choose pieces of music, whatever it may be, that has associated sheet music. Listen to the music and transcribe it. After you are done, compare and contrast to see what you did right and more importantly, what you did wrong. This is something that I learned from Mike Verta as David mentioned.

If you are wanting a more structured learning process, then there are many course available. Thinkspace Education has some really awesome courses as well as Mike Verta's master classes. I would also suggest checking out Peter Alexander's course too.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jun 18, 2014)




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## AlexandreSafi (Jun 18, 2014)

Get the combination of Hindemith's "Elementary Training for Musicians" & Ron Gorow "Hearing and Writing Music" to test your assessment and develop down to the D your craft in reading-hearing-writing paper-notated music.
http://www.amazon.com/Elementary-Training-Musicians-2nd-Edition/dp/0901938165 (http://www.amazon.com/Elementary-Traini ... 0901938165)
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38141

You'll be set for months & years with just this...

It goes for learning any composers, but if you want to learn John Williams especially, who posesses the very underrated skill of "audiation", the fastest way is through first submitting to a forced marriage with pen & paper and "transcribe" as if your life depended on it...

Hunt down the music you love!

--> Your head and your hands are your two best allies as a musician...


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## Jdiggity1 (Jun 18, 2014)

And anything by Lalo Schifrin or Henry Mancini.

Mike Verta's HERE'S JOHNNY class is a must. As well as all the others...

A book can not give you feedback on any exercises or pieces you write. That is how you learn.
Try to write, then ask yourself "does this work?", if the answer is no, observe what other composers have done to achieve the same result, and then try again.


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## Vin (Jun 18, 2014)

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Music-Composition/dp/1592574033 (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-G ... 1592574033)

This and analyzing music you love (harmony, melody, orchestration etc.) will teach you very much.


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## clarkus (Jun 18, 2014)

Some good advice here. I like what The Darris says.

However, I don't believe "the best way to start or learn music composition is thru pop music." 

I believe that's the best way to learn to compose pop music.

With that said, it's true that pop music is (usually) "easier to figure out," the harmonies are (usually) quite basic & so on. It will teach you next to nothing about writing an orchestral score, though, or a choral piece.

I would recommend very highly you find a teacher, ideally one who shares some of your interests. What city are you in?

As with any discipline that has a long history & is reasonably complex, there's a lot to learn and when you learn it things get both easier and more fun. Honestly they do. The advice to look at scores & do transcription (i.e. studying music by ear and learning to replicate what you are hearing), this is good advice, but (or AND) a good teacher will fill in the gaps in your knowledge and answer your questions better than any book can. That may be why there are relatively few books that I can think to recommend, though I have many books on orchestration, harmony, counterpoint, and musical notation. I refer to them, but I didn't learn to compose from them.

The advice that "you learn by composing rather than from a book," is also true to some extent, but most composers I know have at least some favorite scores that they have gotten to know, too. And have had some years of study.


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## Rob (Jun 18, 2014)

I still love A. Schoenberg's "Fundamentals of music composition". Very concise and somewhat limited, but full of good advice...


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## synergy543 (Jun 18, 2014)

Shoenberg had some interesting things to say about tonal music.


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## Peter Alexander (Jun 18, 2014)

Here's an answer from someone who teaches this.

There are two paths. The first is by starting with the original composition course, counterpoint. 

The second is starting with block harmony and developing techniques out of that. 

John Williams is a master of the fundamentals. So it's not too lofty a goal provided you're willing to discipline yourself to do the work, yes, with pencil and paper, and not screw around with software.


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## JohnG (Jun 18, 2014)

Talentless @ 17th June 2014 said:


> I'd like to do whatever I can to learn to compose music that is (as close to being) as complex and as catchy as John Williams' music.



If that is your goal, then I'd go straight to his scores. A fairly wide range is available. They are gold. You can learn as much by analysing eight bars of three of your favourite passages of his scores as by taking a course.

I don't agree that the only way to learn is by doing. Certainly, it is required, but it is not sufficient. You can learn a lot from Wagner about scoring, even if you don't like his music or object to his (very objectionable) personal views.

I would also look past John Williams to study what HE studied. He clearly did a lot of that!

I have not had good luck with teachers, because they -- not surprisingly -- want you to learn and admire the music that _they_ admire. Which of course introduces one to new composers and there's nothing bad about that, but there's only so much time in life. 

If you like Williams, start by studying him.


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## G.E. (Jun 18, 2014)

Ever since I've started composing music I've been on an endless search for that perfect book or course and always ended up disappointed.
What I finally found to be successful for me was the following simple "formula" :
1.Listen until you have the music in your head
2.Study the score and create a mockup in your DAW 
3.Compose a new piece where you blatantly rip off the score you just studied
4.Now the techniques you just learned will stay with you forever. (and practice)

Trust me,there's no better way.Don't waste your money on books which have no practical value.


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## Talentless (Jun 18, 2014)

Thanks to the posters who have offered advice/suggestions so far. I understand the importance of analyzing scores by composers whose music I'm a fan of, but at the same time, I would also like to take less of a "piecemeal" approach and follow more of a start-to-finish curriculum. In other words, I would like to get a more thorough understanding of why I like the music I like, as opposed to simply learning a few compositional tricks here and there. 

In addition to John Williams, I also like the music of other jazz-trained composers such as Lalo Schifrin. What I really love about his (as well as Williams') music are the catchy, lyrical, highly developed-sounding melodies combined with complex chords and chord progressions. And even though their music is relatively complex (at least, it sounds that way to me), none of it is really too "out there" in an experimental or minimalist capacity (I never could get into that kind of music). 

Hmmm... if both Williams and Schifrin have jazz backgrounds, maybe it would be an even better idea to focus on learning jazz composition?

To throw out a few other names I'm a fan of -- Bruce Broughton, John Powell (really impressed by HTTYD 2), Alan Silvestri, and even a few of the "golden era" composers such as Miklos Rosza. 

Going to post individual responses to posters now...


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## Talentless (Jun 18, 2014)

The Darris @ Wed Jun 18 said:


> I honestly don't think books can really teach you how to compose, it involves mostly practice, listening, and DOING. If you are wanting to write like John Williams then you need to listen to him and study his music. The next step would be transcribing music. Choose pieces of music, whatever it may be, that has associated sheet music. Listen to the music and transcribe it. After you are done, compare and contrast to see what you did right and more importantly, what you did wrong. This is something that I learned from Mike Verta as David mentioned.
> 
> If you are wanting a more structured learning process, then there are many course available. Thinkspace Education has some really awesome courses as well as Mike Verta's master classes. I would also suggest checking out Peter Alexander's course too.



Thanks for the suggestions. I actually have several of John Williams' piano books ("Greatest Hits: 1969 - 1999," "Jurassic Park," "Schindler's List"), so I'm definitely making an effort to study his music.

I'll check out Peter Alexander's course, which I'm not familiar with. I see that several people have recommended I look into Mike Verta's course, which I'm doing now...


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## Talentless (Jun 18, 2014)

AlexandreSafi @ Wed Jun 18 said:


> Get the combination of Hindemith's "Elementary Training for Musicians" & Ron Gorow "Hearing and Writing Music" to test your assessment and develop down to the D your craft in reading-hearing-writing paper-notated music.
> http://www.amazon.com/Elementary-Training-Musicians-2nd-Edition/dp/0901938165 (http://www.amazon.com/Elementary-Traini ... 0901938165)
> http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38141
> 
> ...



Already ordered Hindemith's book -- can't wait to get started with it! I'll check into the other book as well...


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## Talentless (Jun 18, 2014)

clarkus @ Wed Jun 18 said:


> Some good advice here. I like what The Darris says.
> 
> However, I don't believe "the best way to start or learn music composition is thru pop music."
> 
> ...



Thanks for your advice. I would love to find a composing teacher (currently just taking piano lessons), but unfortunately, I live in a mid-sized city in the southeast that has NOTHING to offer when it comes to anything remotely related to the entertainment business. Of course, there are general piano teachers here, but as far as I know, there aren't any retired (or even currently working) film composers who offer composing lessons. Honestly, this area sucks, so I can't imagine how anyone who has enjoyed any measure of success in the film/music industry could bring themselves to live here.


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## Talentless (Jun 18, 2014)

Peter Alexander @ Wed Jun 18 said:


> Here's an answer from someone who teaches this.
> 
> There are two paths. The first is by starting with the original composition course, counterpoint.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the suggestions. Between the 2 paths, are there any significant advantages/disadvantages to one as compared to the other? 

Also, considering that JW has a jazz background (and I can hear that he frequently employ jazz chords and progressions in his music), do you think it might be an even better idea to start studying jazz theory & composition?


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## Rob (Jun 18, 2014)

I'm afraid there's no such thing as a "jazz composition" theory... there's a jazz language, ani idiom, there's improvisation, there are jazz techniques but to be sincere "form" is probably jazz' weakest side... Most of jazz pieces are still based on the "head-solos-head" structure. Maybe through the study of Ellington or Gil Evans etc some indication of different form could be extracted but the principles of form are still those of classical music imo... you can learn a lot studying and practicing jazz harmony and the evolution of the jazz improvisation language though.


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## bdr (Jun 19, 2014)

Couple of good, practical books

Composing Music by Bill Russo and

The Jazz Composers Companion by Gil Goldstein


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## Castle (Jun 19, 2014)

Hello everybody,

What are your thoughts about "How Music REALLY Works"? http://www.howmusicreallyworks.com/

I feel is a touchy subject since that material encourages the aspiring composer not to focus on music theory, which I partially sympathize with but also disagree as I truly believe there is essential value in knowing music theory. 

I've read chapter 1 and I have to be honest, it caught my attention. It is a very informal read and entertaining in some areas. I'm very much considering reading the whole thing.

Just curious to know what you think about it.


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## clarkus (Jun 19, 2014)

As the chapters tend to have titles like "Music As An Adaptive Mechanism for Social Bonding" my response is that it may be quite interesting but is also a digression from "Books That Teach Music Composition." The libraries of the world are groaning with books about music. I have found them a good reference. I have even played examples from them, and at times worked diligently to understand what they were getting at, and I succeeded well enough that I taught musicianship and composition at the University level for a time. But I don't really see books as central to the whole enterprise. Even reading through scores (which I think gets closer to what needs to happen) doesn't get you all the way there, as evidenced by the fact that a lot of great musicians who can read the spots off a leopard can't compose. I think actually studying music with the guidance of a living breathing person ("What's going on here, David?") can make us smarter about counterpoint and harmony and structure and the development of an idea and so on. And then we need to compose a lot of bad music, and in time we compose good music. Perhaps learning to tell the difference between them is important as anything else. We need to both know when something is insufficient & discard it, and yet also recognize the musical potential in an idea. I would say the hardest thing is to develop a musical thought effectively, though with practice any good composer can do that. And these are difficult things to teach in a books, which at best offer excerpts from scores. An excerpt may have clever things going on, or beautiful things, and yet can't communicate the heart of the matter ... where that music began & where it's going.

So it's not that composition can't be taught. It's that it's a process & it goes on for years, and (in my opinion) books are one of the smaller parts of where the learning takes place.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 20, 2014)

Hello, 

as I can only speak by myself, but nothing beats the real thing. and that is: Practise, train your muscles by doing music everyday. Listen to works you like, transcribe them by ear. When you want to learn to write in the style of a composer XY, you have not only to study his works, you have to study the works who influenced him. 

Books or theory teach you to sort your ideas or to place them, but not to write great compositions.


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## Hawkes (Jun 20, 2014)

Maybe on top of listening/transcribing, you could try arranging some pieces for other instruments. When I was studying classical guitar I spent tons of time arranging music for two guitars. It really gives perspective on progressions and how the voices are working together.

I went through a variety of books too. Better than nothing, but they weren't nearly as helpful as the transcribing/arranging and classes.


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## gsilbers (Jun 20, 2014)

another post for a plus one on mike verta's videos. 
imo its better to grab a sound recording and transcribe it . even basic and only a few minutes a day.


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