# Cubase RAM usage with orchestral template



## jamieboo (Apr 9, 2020)

Just an idle curiosity...

I have 32gb RAM and an EW Hollywood Orchestra template that fills most of that.
When I load a project Cubase RAM usage gets up to around 28.4GB (as measured by task manager), and I usually get a little popup in warning me that I'm running out of memory.
However, after around 3 minutes, Cubase RAM usage suddenly drops to around 18gb.
My template is still there, fully-loaded, and running smoothly; so why this sudden drop in usage?

Thanks


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## I like music (Apr 9, 2020)

jamieboo said:


> Just an idle curiosity...
> 
> I have 32gb RAM and an EW Hollywood Orchestra template that fills most of that.
> When I load a project Cubase RAM usage gets up to around 28.4GB (as measured by task manager), and I usually get a little popup in warning me that I'm running out of memory.
> ...



This EXACT thing happens to me! I'm on a 32gb laptop. Once I load my template it goes to about 99% of my 32gb, and then after a few minutes, drops to 18gb.

My _guess_ was that it was related to Kontakt instances, as they load up, requiring more RAM for a short period of time. Perhaps the purged samples are loaded to a higher degree, and then 'purged' fully?

Absolutely no idea, but yeah, I feel your pain. I asked over in the Cubase users group on Facebook. Usually, someone has an answer, but in this instance, no one could help me.

EDIT: Just realised that you aren't using Kontakt (as you're using an EW template). So perhaps not the players themselves. What are your load times like? Very recently I brought my load times down from 13 minutes to 3 minutes, simply by making Windows Defender make an exception where it doesn't scan my sample drive. And now that I think of it, I haven't had the warning since. However, could just be coincidence. I'll check tonight and see if I'm seeing the same spike still.


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## jamieboo (Apr 9, 2020)

Hmm. Mysterious.
My load time is around 4 or 5 minutes.
Windows Defender is turned off. But I've made the relevant exceptions in my AV software. And Task Manager shows there is no other software being unusually active or hungry as the project loads.
So yes, it's odd.
Not a problem, obviously, I'm just curious as to what's going on.


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## SZK-Max (Apr 9, 2020)

Garbage collection
Cubase or PLAY, may only be freeing the memory it has set aside for loading instruments.


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## jamieboo (Apr 10, 2020)

SZK-Max said:


> Garbage collection



Ok, broadly speaking, I can get this!
I don't really understand the specific mechanics of what is going on, or why it's estimates for allocation are so much more than the information in the savefile would surely suggest, but some kind of eldritch Garbage Collection is an explanation I can just about comprehend. Thanks!


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## I like music (Apr 10, 2020)

What does garbage collection mean? Never heard of the term before!


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## SZK-Max (Apr 10, 2020)

*I like music*

The application reserves a certain territory when loading files into memory. Then, after reading files into the territory, Destroy unnecessary area. Better performance than reading each file into memory.


I Hope this helps


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## I like music (Apr 10, 2020)

SZK-Max said:


> *I like music*
> 
> The application reserves a certain territory when loading files into memory. Then, after reading files into the territory, Destroy unnecessary area. Better performance than reading each file into memory.
> 
> ...


Ahhh I see! Makes sense. Thank you


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## NYC Composer (Apr 11, 2020)

I believe in overkill RAM. I have 72 GB and am using 60 so far. If it gets too much higher I’ll go to 100 or 128.


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## I like music (Apr 11, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> I believe in overkill RAM. I have 72 GB and am using 60 so far. If it gets too much higher I’ll go to 100 or 128.


I believe in it too but my wallet doesn't right now. I only want it for the mic positions. Perhaps one day!


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## jamieboo (Aug 17, 2021)

jamieboo said:


> Just an idle curiosity...
> 
> I have 32gb RAM and an EW Hollywood Orchestra template that fills most of that.
> When I load a project Cubase RAM usage gets up to around 28.4GB (as measured by task manager), and I usually get a little popup in warning me that I'm running out of memory.
> ...


To reanimate this old thread of mine from spring last year...

It's weird, the behaviour I described above no longer seems to happen!
Now the RAM usage when the project is loaded starts at around 28GB, but then remains at that level for the whole session.
There is none of the speculative 'garbage collection' process (#4 above) that previously would drop the Cubase RAM usage down to 18GB.
This is using a similar project save from April last year so the memory usage should generally be the same.
What's going on?
I have not updated Cubase.
I have not updated PLAY.
The project has not generally expanded in anyway.
Could Windows updates have altered memory management in some way?

Any thoughts welcome!

Thanks


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## José Herring (Aug 17, 2021)

Same thing happened to me on my VEPro template. I'd load it up and initially it was maxed then after a few minutes it would drop to %50. At the time I was worried and found the cause of it. It's a Windows 10 feature having to do with how the CPU handles Ram. I can't remember because I forgot it as soon as I read it but it's a ram cache feature. Apparently some of the ram load gets transferred over some how. Not the same as the page feature which totally sucks. But the CPU cache feature is apparently even faster than ram so it's a good thing.


cpu cache - Google Search


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## jamieboo (Aug 17, 2021)

Ok, but as I said in my thread-necroing comment above, this no longer seems to be happening!
If this is a Windows 10 feature, has some recent Windows update changed it somehow?


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## jamieboo (Aug 19, 2021)

Is anyone else noticing this?
Before, there used to be a significant RAM usage drop a few minutes after project loading; but now, that isn't happening anymore.
What could be going on?

Thanks


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## Mr Greg G (Aug 19, 2021)

Never noticed this sorry. I’m reducing RAM usage by unloading samples in Kontakt instances. This way I’m just loading the samples I use per project. Not sure if there’s such option in Play. I use it less and less and may have just one or two Play instances left in my template.


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## jamieboo (Aug 19, 2021)

I like music said:


> This EXACT thing happens to me! I'm on a 32gb laptop. Once I load my template it goes to about 99% of my 32gb, and then after a few minutes, drops to 18gb.


I wonder if I like music - who noticed the same usage dropping as I - is also noticing that this behaviour has now stopped?
If you're out there I like music, do chime in!


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## philthevoid (Aug 19, 2021)

I've been experiencing this for a long time now. I just tested with a project that I know has always done that and it still does today (went from 97% to 76% after a couple minutes). I have the most recent Windows updates.
Can't say why you're not seeing the issue anymore because I don't know your details.

It also isn't "speculative" garbage collection. It has been confirmed by several company representatives in different threads on this forum. Including Yaron_NI in a Kontakt thread. The number you see in Windows' Task Manager is not necessarily the actual used RAM. It might just be reserved and whatnot. As long as you don't *actually* run out of memory, there is nothing to worry about. It just makes RAM management a pain but it is what it is.


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## jamieboo (Aug 19, 2021)

Thanks for the replies.
philthevoid, yes that all makes sense. So the garbage collection process is part of the sample-player software (PLAY in my case)? Not Windows, or Cubase?
It's just odd. Regardless of the reliability of Task Manager, something has changed.
I haven't changed any settings in PLAY, Cubase or Windows 10.
And since this reported 10GB drop in usage seems to have stopped happening, performance is generally worse: dropouts, memory warnings when loading new reverb presets, etc. The kind of problems that usually accompany insufficient memory.
What on earth could be going on? And what can I do about it?

Thanks


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## philthevoid (Aug 19, 2021)

It's a Windows feature and the behaviour will vary from one program to the next, according to the way the progs choose to handle memory.
Dropouts are not due to low memory as far as I know. It would be more relevant to check disk usage and audio interface buffer settings.
Freezing tracks can help when you're low on memory though.


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## jamieboo (Aug 19, 2021)

Ok, thanks for the suggestions.
As for the Windows garbage collection feature, can you think of any reason why it's behaviour would have changed? Why would the buffer purging (if that's what it might be called) have stopped purging?
There are no settings in PLAY that have changed in any way to explain this. Are there specific Windows settings relating to this kind of thing?
The practical impact is something I can work around, I'm just really curious to find out what has changed to cause process to behave differently.

Thanks


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## jcrosby (Aug 19, 2021)

Sounds like your describing virtual memory and OS level memory compression. This is all standard stuff for any OS these days…

OS’s do this to make app loading faster, improve efficiency of ram use (within reasonable limits), etc.

thing is don’t mistake this for the _magical_ ability to load more instruments than your memory limit can handle.. At some point you’d eventually hit the ceiling and start experiencing hangs or crashes

(FYI this is not the same thing as garbage collection. That’s a completely separate process that doesn’t free up compressed memory.)


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## lexiaodong (Aug 19, 2021)

Don't worry, Windows has a good memory management system. When run out of memory, it will find ways to help run the program until it can do nothing. However, when the memory is sufficient, it will be used as much as possible.


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## Al Maurice (Aug 20, 2021)

Most of the modern operating systems, seem to seize more memory than they actually use to help with better management of resources down the line. Personally I wouldn't pay to much attention to these levels, they're not reflective of your actual usage. 

I find over time after booting up your pc/mac starts to settle down to a more workable load.


Many of the plugins we use have well documented memorty leaks, so the garbage collector might not capture the memory back. Thus another option I often deploy, is to use a tool so you can purge memory periodically.

Kontakt out of all the samplers is fairly good at its handling of memory, many of the libraries when they first load up specify far more voices than you actually need. So experiment and find your happy balance. Also if you have a fast SSD, it let's you purge the sample pool. Moreover you can shift the buffer settings enabling less to remain in memory. That way you can easily boost your track count.


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## jamieboo (Aug 20, 2021)

Thanks for the replies!
Some good information here.

But I'm still a bit befuddled by my simple main point: Nothing, as far as I can tell, has changed; Why would the reported memory drop of 10GB no longer be happening?


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## I like music (Aug 20, 2021)

jamieboo said:


> Thanks for the replies!
> Some good information here.
> 
> But I'm still a bit befuddled by my simple main point: Nothing, as far as I can tell, has changed; Why would the reported memory drop of 10GB no longer be happening?


Interesting! I have so little time these days that I hadn't had the chance to boot up the machine. I will hopefully check in the next couple of days and let you know if I also see this.

I do remember vaguely thinking a few weeks ago that I wasn't coming anywhere near the 32gb anymore, but I will confirm soon.


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## jamieboo (Aug 20, 2021)

I like music said:


> Interesting! I have so little time these days that I hadn't had the chance to boot up the machine. I will hopefully check in the next couple of days and let you know if I also see this.
> 
> I do remember vaguely thinking a few weeks ago that I wasn't coming anywhere near the 32gb anymore, but I will confirm soon.


Thanks, I like music!
So you seem to remember that you are generally not getting anywhere near your 32GB? My situation is the opposite: I load up my project and usage goes to 28.5GB... and then stays there... it no longer drops down to 18GB after a few minutes.
Yeah, if you could have a check and then let me know, that would be great!

Thanks


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## I like music (Aug 20, 2021)

jamieboo said:


> Thanks, I like music!
> So you seem to remember that you are generally not getting anywhere near your 32GB? My situation is the opposite: I load up my project and usage goes to 28.5GB... and then stays there... it no longer drops down to 18GB after a few minutes.
> Yeah, if you could have a check and then let me know, that would be great!
> 
> Thanks


I haven't seen a sustained spike, that's for sure! So it seems you're experiencing something much more extreme and very different. Sorry to hear that. Is this tied to a particular Windows update? I know there was a recent one which I _think_ was not an insignificant one?


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## jamieboo (Aug 21, 2021)

Well, I think I've figured it out!

I _had_ made a change and of course forgotten about it!
About a month ago (before this current issue started) I started another thread here asking what could be safely turned off in Windows 10 these days to free up RAM. And someone suggested disabling Superfetch (SysMain) - so I disabled it! And because I didn't at the time notice any obvious problems, I left it disabled , and forgot about it.
Well, the disabled SysMain is the culprit!
I just re-enabled it and loaded up my Cubase project, and the RAM buffers purge again after a few minutes. It's back to it's old behaviour. And performance is better again.

Glad I've figured it out - it was driving me crazy! 

Thanks


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