# CSS vs BBCSO Core



## Weyenberg Creative

I am working towards film/game scoring, and I can't decide between CSS and BBCSO Core. I've read that out of the two, the BBCSO player has a bit laggier feel than CSS. To my ears, CSS sounds better. I'm deciding which library to pull the trigger on... I can't afford both. I've got BBCSO Discover, but to my ears it isn't as good as CSS. But, I'm a beginner, so what do I know?  Any input would be appreciated!


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## mybadmemory

Are you referring to the full Cinematic Studio Series or only Cinematic Studio Strings? The full series is quite a bit more expensive than BBCSO Core.

They’re both great libraries in their own right. BBCSO is insane value considering you get the full orchestra for the same price as the strings from CSS. Many people, myself included, love it and praise it highly.

Cinematic Studio Series and especially the strings is also great value in its own right, considering the quality you get for the price when compared to other libraries like SSO and Berlin. Still much more expensive than BBCSO Core though.

In terms of sound BBCSO is a larger ensemble and a larger sound. Though in ordinary spitfire manner it shines at the lower dynamics and never goes as loud as the competition.

CSS is a smaller ensemble and a more focused sound. It plays louder if you want to and many here would swear by it as their desert island choice for strings and legatos.

In the end they’re both great. Listen to demos and go with your gut. Or go with what you can afford. The full CSS series (still missing percussion) is more comparable to BBCSO pro in terms of prize. So comparing to Core I guess you would only be buying the strings.

In that case, if ~400 is what you’re gonna spend, it’s a choice between one of the best string libraries and one of the best all-in-one full orchestras. Only you know what you need and which sound you like best.


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## José Herring

Go with your gut. Find what sound you like and go with that. They are both fantastic libraries. But, with BBCSO you get the full orchestra.


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## Weyenberg Creative

José Herring said:


> Go with your gut. Find what sound you like and go with that. They are both fantastic libraries. But, with BBCSO you get the full orchestra.


I was listening to some of your stuff on another thread just now, wow! What would be your take on BBCSO Pro vs. Cinematic Studio Series? I think I can swing either of those, but not sure I'd need all the extra mics that I'd get with BBCSO Pro


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## Weyenberg Creative

Here's the deal: my family has allotted me $2400 to do with what I want. I was thinking of sinking it all into libraries, but I need advice on how to spend that effectively. I've been scouring various forums for input.

After reviewing a bunch of stuff, my options look like the following:

Package 1
------------
BBCSO Core
Komplete 13 CE *upgrade from Komplete 12*
Damage 2
Albion I
Strezov Choir Essentials
Omnisphere

or

Package 2
-----------
CSS
CSS Solo Strings
CSB
CSWW
Damage 2
Strezov Choir Essentials
U-He Zebra2 *possibly Zebra Dark*

I already have Cubase Pro 11. My keyboard is a Yamaha Motif XF6, and I have a Maschine Mk3, so I'm good on hardware.

This is my dilemma. I hope someone can help. That $2400 is a hard wall, so I'd need to hope for a sale on some of the options.


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## José Herring

Weyenberg Creative said:


> I was listening to some of your stuff on another thread just now, wow! What would be your take on BBCSO Pro vs. Cinematic Studio Series? I think I can swing either of those, but not sure I'd need all the extra mics that I'd get with BBCSO Pro


I have my music somewhere here? I usually try and avoid that 

I love them both. I love Alex and I love the guys at Spitfire. 

My personal take. I don't own any CSS. I wish I did. For some reason though the section size of the strings and the smaller brass room just haven't quite hit the mark. The timber of the strings isn't really for me but I will at some point get the brass and woodwinds though. I judge this just from the demos not from user experience. But, many, many people I respect love CSS so you can't discount it. I'm weird. I don't hear music right. I certainly don't hear what others hear. I've learned to live with my shortcomings and play to my strengths which lead me to BBCSO. 

I bought BBCSO core just to try it out. I love it and as soon as finances allow I will probably upgrade to pro. I grew up listening to concert orchestras rather than 80's and 90's film scores and BBCSO has that definitive concert hall classical sound. Some people think that it lacks loudness. Nah, if anything it lacks softness imo. But, if you grew up listening to 90's Media Venture scores then it won't be loud enough for you if that's the sound you're after. 

That being said, BBCSO isn't for everybody. You really do need to know a bit about orchestration to get good results. I think CSS is a bit more forgiving in that regard. 

Truth be told if you're starting out I wouldn't just bank it all on just one library. Each library has its strengths and weaknesses. If you could swing it, I'd give BBCSO core+ at least CSStrings and CSB. That would be a killer combo. Then when money permits get BBCSO Pro and the rest of CSS. 

Be warned though BBCSO is a very wet library so you'll need a good reverb to match your CSS libraries to it.


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## Weyenberg Creative

José Herring said:


> I have my music somewhere here? I usually try and avoid that
> 
> I love them both. I love Alex and I love the guys at Spitfire.
> 
> My personal take. I don't own any CSS. I wish I did. For some reason though the section size of the strings and the smaller brass room just haven't quite hit the mark. The timber of the strings isn't really for me but I will at some point get the brass and woodwinds though. I judge this just from the demos not from user experience. But, many, many people I respect love CSS so you can't discount it. I'm weird. I don't hear music right. I certainly don't hear what others hear. I've learned to live with my shortcomings and play to my strengths which lead me to BBCSO.
> 
> I bought BBCSO core just to try it out. I love it and as soon as finances allow I will probably upgrade to pro. I grew up listening to concert orchestras rather than 80's and 90's film scores and BBCSO has that definitive concert hall classical sound. Some people think that it lacks loudness. Nah, if anything it lacks softness imo. But, if you grew up listening to 90's Media Venture scores then it won't be loud enough for you if that's the sound you're after.
> 
> That being said, BBCSO isn't for everybody. You really do need to know a bit about orchestration to get good results. I think CSS is a bit more forgiving in that regard.
> 
> Truth be told if you're starting out I wouldn't just bank it all on just one library. Each library has its strengths and weaknesses. If you could swing it, I'd give BBCSO core+ at least CSStrings and CSB. That would be a killer combo. Then when money permits get BBCSO Pro and the rest of CSS.
> 
> Be warned though BBCSO is a very wet library so you'll need a good reverb to match your CSS libraries to it.


oops maybe it was another Jose


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## Weyenberg Creative

Look at post #5, that's the dilemma. Based on what you said, maybe option 2 would be better, and wait on a sale for BBCSO Pro.


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## José Herring

Weyenberg Creative said:


> Here's the deal: my family has allotted me $2400 to do with what I want. I was thinking of sinking it all into libraries, but I need advice on how to spend that effectively. I've been scouring various forums for input.
> 
> After reviewing a bunch of stuff, my options look like the following:
> 
> Package 1
> ------------
> BBCSO Core
> Komplete 13 CE *upgrade from Komplete 12*
> Damage 2
> Albion I
> Strezov Choir Essentials
> Omnisphere
> 
> or
> 
> Package 2
> -----------
> CSS
> CSS Solo Strings
> CSB
> CSWW
> Damage 2
> Strezov Choir Essentials
> U-He Zebra2 *possibly Zebra Dark*
> 
> I already have Cubase Pro 11. My keyboard is a Yamaha Motif XF6, and I have a Maschine Mk3, so I'm good on hardware.
> 
> This is my dilemma. I hope someone can help. That $2400 is a hard wall, so I'd need to hope for a sale on some of the options.


BBCSO woodwinds are top notch. If you can just add CSB and CSS to package one and drop Albion I and Omnisphere. Komplete has some great synths in it so you may not need Zebra. Massive X, Monark and others can cover Zebra well. Though Zebra is a great synth.


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## Weyenberg Creative

José Herring said:


> BBCSO woodwinds are top notch. If you can just add CSB and CSS to package one and drop Albion I and Omnisphere. Komplete has some great synths in it so you may not need Zebra. Massive X, Monark and others can cover Zebra well. Though Zebra is a great synth.


Thank you for the excellent feedback!


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## José Herring

Weyenberg Creative said:


> Thank you for the excellent feedback!


No problem. But, I can't over emphasize enough of trusting your own ears and your own gut. You have your own sound and you need to find the products that will allow you to get that out.


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## Weyenberg Creative

Absolutely. I've got a bit of ear fatigue atm from listening attentively to so many comparison videos that I'm basically fried. I'll probably add more libraries slowly, but I didn't want to make any "rookie mistakes"


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## from_theashes

Weyenberg Creative said:


> Here's the deal: my family has allotted me $2400 to do with what I want. I was thinking of sinking it all into libraries, but I need advice on how to spend that effectively. I've been scouring various forums for input.
> 
> After reviewing a bunch of stuff, my options look like the following:
> 
> Package 1
> ------------
> BBCSO Core
> Komplete 13 CE *upgrade from Komplete 12*
> Damage 2
> Albion I
> Strezov Choir Essentials
> Omnisphere
> 
> or
> 
> Package 2
> -----------
> CSS
> CSS Solo Strings
> CSB
> CSWW
> Damage 2
> Strezov Choir Essentials
> U-He Zebra2 *possibly Zebra Dark*
> 
> I already have Cubase Pro 11. My keyboard is a Yamaha Motif XF6, and I have a Maschine Mk3, so I'm good on hardware.
> 
> This is my dilemma. I hope someone can help. That $2400 is a hard wall, so I'd need to hope for a sale on some of the options.


Both packages are a great choice. I love Albion One and it layers pretty well with BBCSO and Komplete 13 Ultimate CE gives you so much great sounds (Cremona Quartet, Synth, cinematic instruments and sooo many expansions for you Maschine Mikro). Together with Omnisphere this looks like the perfect cinematic scoring bundle that also can do classic orchestral music.
Your second package is focused mainly on Orchestra sounds and includes the best of the best (for many people) with the Cinematic Studio Series.
In the end it depends on what music you want to create with it.... but I think package 1 offers more flexibility.


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## Nimrod7

I am in a similar situation. Budgeted cash for studio hardware & libraries. Being music producer moving to scoring.

I would go with the following Package:

*BBCSO Core
Abbey Road One 
Damage 2
ZebraHZ
EW Hollywood Choirs*

My reasoning is:

*BBCSO* as my main workhorse.
*ARO* as my sketching library, sound much better to me than Albion One.
*ZebraHZ* - You can't beat the flexibility of this one. Easy to come up with crazy sounds.

Keep Komplete 12, don't upgrade. Nothing exciting for me in there.

Finally, might worth considering getting each of those in a Sale to get the most for your money. You will need time to familiarize yourself with each of those. So get one, learn it, once something in a sale get it, learn etc.

I am following the above. Grabbed ARO last month, some EW stuff, and waiting for the next batch.


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## mybadmemory

Since both packages have the same choices for percussion and choir (Damage and Strezov), and I'm not really into synth sounds myself (though both Omnisphere and Zebra are probably great choices), I'll only comment on the differences in orchestral choices between the two packs.

If you go the CSS route, you probably can't go wrong with their full set. Most people absolutely love them, and if you like what you hear (the smaller sections and more dramatic sound), they seem like a good choice that will also set you free from the paradox of choice which the other pack might create for you. Here you'll only have one orchestra, and you'll just have to use that one.

If you go the other route (maybe because you want larges sections or a more classic sound), I'd probably skip Albion and either replace that with Abbey Road ONE if the ensembles is what you're after, or just get BBC Pro instead. After that I'd probably skip Komplete 13 too, and instead scout for stray sounds from LABS, and PianoBook when you need them. And either save the money or just add CSS to the pack.


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## jbuhler

Spitfire will likely have a sale in May and you’ll be able to get BBCSO at 40% off. Heavyocity has regular sales as well and you should be able to pick up Damage 2 at 25% off. Did you figure in the loyalty discounts you’ll get from Alex after you buy the first library there? I can’t remember when NI has their upgrade sales (if new ownership continues them). Wait for it and I agree with the comment that you can likely spend that money better elsewhere.

I also agree with the advice to go with Abbey Road One over Albion I. ARO will likely be on sale for 25% off during the May sale.

Leave budget for SSDs. How much RAM do you have on your computer? It‘s not enough! (That’s a joke. But it’s hard to have too much RAM.)


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## Danilebob

BBCSO Core has a great sound (not comparable to Discover; totally different set of samples).
Things that I note now that I own it:
The library is very wet; it will always sound like it's in a hall even if there's no "reverb"
There are only 3 dynamic regions and the transitions can be quite sudden if your CC ramp is too steep.
The brass loud dynamics aren't loud. The brass solo instruments don't have a really well-defined character. Still a great warm brass section (this section is great in the lower dynamics).
You have to load every individual instrument/instrument section by hand if you don't have a preset template. This means very intense detail-oriented orchestration.
You have to remove unused articulations to save your RAM.
You cannot load multi-instrument patches/tracks using the plugin (probably means it's eating up a small amount of extra RAM).
Divisi strings and split WWs and Brass are hard to replicate accurately.

In my experience, my string ensembles can range from 2 to 6 gigs of RAM depending on how many articulations and "divisi" passages there are.
BBCSO also blends super well with the Spitfire Solo Strings library. I love the sound of the 1st desk Violin, and I normally just copy+drag the exact same midi data. It blends and adds that extra lead player sound.

I personally want to pair BBCSO with Albion One and then get either Cinematic Studio Strings or Spitfire Studio Strings Professional.
Abbey Road One is like the paid BBC Discover plugin. Amazing quality of sound for every section; ensemble patches, mic mixing, but no legatos. I personally will not be getting Abbey Road One because of the lack of legatos in the ensemble patches. Not to mention, SA's latest update to Abbey Road One is not free or an update.


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## packhorse

Does Cinematic Studio Strings ever come up in a sale?


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## Nimrod7

packhorse said:


> Does Cinematic Studio Strings ever come up in a sale?


As far as I have heard only Black Friday and it's always 30% if not mistaken


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## Project Anvil

I strongly recommend going to CSS/CSB/CSW route. Here is why:

- Consistent articulations meaning you can copy-paste parts between instruments and (to a degree) between sections.
- Best-in-class legato (including re-bow/re-tongue legato which BBCSO doesn't have afaik).
- Covers the bread and butter articulations. Spitfire have really nice esoteric articulations, but you're much less likely to use all their extended technique patches _unless_ your style of writing is more pad-like.
- Great support. There's a non-zero chance you might get some kind of discount if you send Alex a polite e-mail and ask for it, since you aim to get CSS/W/B at once.
- Close/Main/Room/Mix mics are all you really need to shape your sound. Don't be fooled by anyone who says otherwise. Helps keep install size down too.

The only downside I find to the Cinematic Studio series are these:

- CSS has a relatively dark sound and control over vibrato is limited.
- CSW is a slightly mixed bag. Oboe, flute and piccolo are great, Clarinet's legato needs works. Overall the dynamic transitions are a bit less smooth than you might like.
- I find in some situations that the shortest notes on the brass aren't quite short enough, or that the attacks are (in the trumpets mainly) not quite sharp enough.
- Due to built-in delays the instruments are difficult to play in live.

An update is in the work however that will add a runs mode for the strings. Not much else is known at the moment but I think there may be some more fixes (hopefully a tighter legato for some of the winds) coming in that update.

I've got a bunch of demos for the cinematic studio series on my soundcloud which you can check out. The only exceptions are the percussion (Abbey Road One and Hollywood Percussion) and harp (ProjectSAM Harp) because those products haven't been made yet by Alex and his team.


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## Justin L. Franks

During Spitfire's 40% off sales (the next one is in May), you can get BBCSO Core for $220, since you get a credit for owning BBCSO Discover. Even if you decide to go the CSS route, you can probably squeeze that in. It's a ridiculous value.

There are also usually special bundles during Spitfire's spring sale. I bought my first libraries during the 2020 spring sale, where the special offer was the Symphonic bundle (Symphonic Strings, Symphonic Brass, Symphonic Woodwinds, and Masse) plus their Harp library, for $898. After getting that, I immediately purchased Chamber Strings via completing the SSO Chamber Edition bundle, and their Percussion library through the Symphony Complete bundle (completing a bundle during a sale gives an extra discount). All that came out to $1485.

So I would definitely wait until the sale, to see what they are offering, before making your final decision.

NI also usually runs a sale over the summer, where Komplete upgrades are 50% off. I signed up for their newsletter, got an offer to get Komplete 12 Select for ~$100, and then was able to upgrade to Komplete 12 'standard' for $210. So just over $300 total.

There's also the Metropolis Ark 1 + 2 bundle from Orchestral Tools to consider.


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## Nimrod7

Justin L. Franks said:


> There's also the Metropolis Ark 1 + 2 bundle from Orchestral Tools to consider.


Is that ever get on a sale? 
I missed the one NI had a while back.


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## LauraC

Did you make a decision on your purchases? I'd be interested to know what you got.


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## bill5

Weyenberg Creative said:


> This is my dilemma. I hope someone can help. That $2400 is a hard wall


Wow what a rough life you have. 

My first thought is whatever you do don't waste all that money on Komplete. Get Kontakt and even that mostly just for the player.

As for synths, I wouldn't spend money on ANY of them initially. There are some EXCELLENT inexpensive and free synths out there which may do everything you need and more. u-he has some great freebies, there's also Vital and Surge, which are new on the block but really good. Do yourself a favor and check them out (and other freebies) first. If you think "but you get what you pay for"....nope. Free doesn't mean weak or limited or inferior any more to say the least.


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## RogiervG

there are so many option out there..
i think it is important to know what kind of music you really want to make.
Some libraries are more suited for a style than others. Also workflow is an important factor.
e.g. some libraries sound out of this world beautiful, but have a workflow that might not suit your way of working/thinking. It will become a burden to use, because of that.
Same can be true the other direction. Watch walkthroughs and mockup tutorials using the libs by users. That way you get an impression how the workflow of the lib is and often you can (bonus) spot problem areas in sound. (each lib has some patches or scripting issues sonically)

if you can wait that long, wait for sales. Most companies have regular sales (twice or more a year) on (all) products.

*one developer route*

Some good options (again depending on sales and how big of a discount, since it can vary per sale):

Cinematic studio series (at current: woods, brass, ensemble strings, solo strings and piano).

Spitfire audio SSO (or the chamber version) with or without pro

Spitfire audio BBC SO PRO (i would immediately go pro, because of the extra instruments and mics)

Orchestral tools Berlin series (last year they had a 50% disount on their main packages: brass, winds, perc and strings). In my currency it came to 1600 bucks excl tax. I didn't had the money back then, otherwise i would have bought it. They are very good, but far from cheap.

Vienna Symphonic Library has many good libraries and bundles.

*mix and match approach...*

bits and pieces from different developers.
Pick a string library you really like the workflow and sound of. (or two)
pick a woods lib, you really like. (might be a different developer)
pick a brass lib, you really like

cherrypicking the best you find.. per instrument group.

e.g. BBC SO pro + sample modelling Brass or cinematic studio brass to give a better or at the least more brass options in your compositions. You can also add e.g. cinematic studio woodwinds or Orchestal tools soloists, for more indepth woodwind options (to expand on BBC SO)

Seriously there are a gazillion of options to choose... depending on your type of music and workflow


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## jbuhler

RogiervG said:


> there are so many option out there..
> i think it is important to know what kind of music you really want to make.
> Some libraries are more suited for a style than others. Also workflow is an important factor.
> e.g. some libraries sound out of this world beautiful, but have a workflow that might not suit your way of working/thinking. It will become a burden to use, because of that.
> Same can be true the other direction. Watch walkthroughs and mockup tutorials using the libs by users. That way you get an impression how the workflow of the lib is and often you can (bonus) spot problem areas in sound. (each lib has some patches or scripting issues sonically)


I find workflow the hardest thing to evaluate from walkthroughs and mock-up tutorials. The differences in workflow are enough that I’m often surprised by how something fits or doesn’t work for me. Sound for me is still the most important thing, but I often find myself reaching for libraries I like the sound of less simply because I know they will be much easier to work with. Often the best guide here is a company’s other products, but even that is not definitive. Also if you don‘t yet have a lot of libraries, you can often adjust your workflow to accommodate new libraries in a way that becomes increasingly difficult the more libraries you have.


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## RogiervG

jbuhler said:


> I find workflow the hardest thing to evaluate from walkthroughs and mock-up tutorials. The differences in workflow are enough that I’m often surprised by how something fits or doesn’t work for me. Sound for me is still the most important thing, but I often find myself reaching for libraries I like the sound of less simply because I know they will be much easier to work with. Often the best guide here is a company’s other products, but even that is not definitive. Also if you don‘t yet have a lot of libraries, you can often adjust your workflow to accommodate new libraries in a way that becomes increasingly difficult the more libraries you have.


Yes it can be hard to figure the workflow in detail. I agree.. but it is far better than the marketed developers walkthrough videos. They only show you the upsides.. not the cons.
Real users, are more honest (well not everyone, but a good bunch are), you see them make mistakes or the library responding not as intended. And they have find a way around the issue live in front of the cam. (no cutting).


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## jbuhler

RogiervG said:


> Yes it can be hard to figure the workflow in detail. I agree.. but it is far better than the marketed developers walkthrough videos. They only show you the upsides.. not the cons.
> Real users, are more honest (well not everyone, but a good bunch are), you see them make mistakes or the library responding not as intended. And they have find a way around the issue live in front of the cam. (no cutting).


Yes, I agree with this completely. Even so, it’s the one thing in buying new instruments that I’m still surprised by. I’m almost never surprised by the instrument’s sound and capabilities. I’ve learned how to discern that from walkthroughs, demos, reviews, playthroughs, etc. Mostly it’s just recognizing that you can’t assume the instrument can do anything that hasn’t been illustrated. But I find I’m still surprised by instruments that don’t fit with my workflow for whatever reason.


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## Cideboy

Welcome to an expensive career to get started in. I would go with EastWest’s cloud these days. It’s an affordable starting point with a great collection and everything you’ll need to write film music. Spitfire is coming out with a subscription model and NI just released one too. It’s a great time to dip your toes in the water. Eventually you’ll own nearly everything- unless you want to rent it all. We didn’t have that option when I got started so I own nearly everything just through trial and error. I’ve found all commercial products have their place. If I could do it again though - I’d use a service as a trial period to kick the tires on the products I want. Then I would buy it - owning is always cheaper in the end.


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