# Are Hollywood Composers asking too much of their assistants?-My Story



## Aesop Colindry (Apr 18, 2006)

Hello,

First let me say that this is not an attack on any particular composer in Hollywood. I mean no ill will toward any of the involved parties. It is merely my observations and experiences that I would like to discuss with you fine people at VI control. Therefore, please do not ask me who the composer is that I had worked for and please do not assume its Hans Zimmer, James Newton Howard or the like.

My Story:
I was brought on by one hollywood composer as an intern in early January. I was to be there 3 days a week with a minimum of 8 hours a day. I made quite an impression on the composer when he/she learned that not only was I competent with computers, but that I was often staying much later than 8 hours most of the time. The composer decided to hire me full time as a runner/tech. assistant. The wages paid to me did not exceed $500/week, but I took the position in hopes of greater things.
Working at full capacity for the next month and a half, the composer decided I might be the right kind of person for his/her apprenticeship program. I was brought in early one morning to discuss the matter. He/she offered me the following:

1. Say goodbye to family/friends/loved one's for 2 years and work round the clock.
1a. The pay would not be anything to write home about.
2. After these 2 years, work with the composer on his/her projects as a ghostwriter/additional music composer for 6 months.
3. After the 6 month period, go onto bigger/better things by using the movies I had worked on as, to put it lightly, "resume boosters".


It was in one way, an extremely generous offer. The composer had picked me to ride his/her coattails to the top. However, two years was quite a long time to devote solely to this composer. I began to think if it was in this composer's best interest to further my career, only to see me possibly succeed and become his/her competition. There was no doubt I would learn many important things during those two years. Already I had learned so much and had spent numerous days in the post production buildings of major studios. But I would have to give up all of the independent filmmaker contacts I had taken years to build up. During the next two years, if the next Speilberg came knocking at my door for music, I would have to turn him away.

I decided that the offer, though enticing, was not worth what I would be giving up. I would not only be giving up a balanced life, but I would be giving my future to someone. However well intentioned the composer was, he/she could not guarantee my success any more than I could.

The composer, to his/her credit, sensed my wavering in the days to come and by the end of the week rescinded his/her offer. I left on good terms with both the composer and his/her crew. In fact, I had lunch with one of the other assistants recently. To my surprise, the assistant informed me that the composer had abolished the apprenticeship program altogether.
-The End.

What do you guys and gals think of all this? Thank you for your interest and time spent reading the above.


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## Scott Rogers (Apr 18, 2006)

..........


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## Scott Cairns (Apr 18, 2006)

The stories of dedication by those who reach the top are admirable, but at the end of the day - you are working your guts out and you should be paid fairly.

Im sure the money is there to pay you quite well for what you do, not to mention overtime, I dont see why you should work for pittance to prove your dedication....


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## Alex W (Apr 18, 2006)

dead on Scott.

some people might be thinking "I'd have stuck in there," while others might be thinking "you made the right choice."

In the end you followed your instincts and made your own choice which is the best thing to do.

Sorry to hear it didn't work out, but you'll get other opportunities. No regrets mate.

cheers.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Apr 18, 2006)

I'd say the whole thing depends on the level of recognition and competence of the composer you are working for...and also maybe on your age.
If you're in your twenties (or older) and the dude is big time then, no hesitation: do the two years. What's two years for the publicity such a job can offer?. 
You get big time training for the demanding schedule of film composer and you make a name for yourself. You can spend the rest of your life getting payback for these two years of sacrifice...


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## choc0thrax (Apr 18, 2006)

Well I guess it depends on who the composer is. If this was Graeme Revell giving me this offer i'd tell him to go jump in a lake...if it was Elfman i'd cream my pants.


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## Mike Greene (Apr 18, 2006)

If this is the story I think it is, there are a few important points:

1. The two years of round the clock (literally seven days a week) interning would be as a runner, not the more glorified job of arranger/ghost writer. This particular composer (and he IS pretty big) already has quite a few full time programmer/ghost writers working ridiculous hours. Only AFTER the two years could one move up to junior programmer/ghost writer.

2. "The pay would be nothing to write home about" is an understatement. Without help from a spouse or parents, it would not be possible to live on it in L.A. Again, this assumes this is the same story I think it is.

3. This other assistant who took the job got scewed. I don't know how long he spent working as a slave, but I believe it turned out to be completely for naught.

The composing world is so tough to crack that I can't say someone shouldn't take a deal like this. It's not like there are that many other options for a newbie.

But I personally find it pretty unethical.

- Mike Greene


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## TheoKrueger (Apr 18, 2006)

I think that if you are as talented as to make a Hollywood composer propose you such offer (working close to him/her for 2 years and be a ghostwriter one day), you must be extremely talented. So have nothing to fear! I'm sure you can get "up there" on your own and get paid a lot better on the way, and with more credits that a ghostwriter would get.

Perhaps you should try taking on a film of your own or offer your services to some good new movie-maker. The story you described might not be something to write on your resume, but if you say it to a movie producer in a personal chat they'll be interested for sure!

I also think this is a great confidence booster, now you get to chose what path to take and what is best for you, you got the skills 

Speaking of the two years, i think the composer saw it as something normal to ask. Sometimes these hollywood composers (2 of them, i have heard of first hand stories) are DEDICATED at what they do... no going out, no family matters, no time for anything except composition and business to get the name at the top.

We always see big composers in interviews relaxed and happy, but some have gone through inhuman working hours to get where they are. I guess you either follow with the consequences that brings or you do something more relaxed like multimedia or smaller films.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Brian Ralston (Apr 18, 2006)

I have many thoughts on the subject of "breaking in" to being a film composer. Some of those thoughts are not very popular among some of my friends. Mostly because it slams what they are doing. Not intentional...but indirectly. But I will share a few of them with you. 

First of all...in almost all cases...anyone who thinks that being an assistant to a bigger composer is going to get you any closer to breaking into a career as a "film composer"...they are kidding themselves. This is the number one thing I will tell people who ask me about this. 

Being someone's assistant will only build your credit list as...being an assistant. It is much better to compose music for a film that you get full credit on as a composer than to be able to say "I wrote measures 16-32 for Elfman." Or...whatever. producers and directors do not want assistants scoring their films. They want serious, full flegged film composers. Now...we all know there is little difference to us. But to a producer or director...they see a difference. They see a difference when a composer has all TV credits and he tries to get film jobs. They see a difference when he has all film credits and really wants to do episodic TV. And they see a difference when all of your credits on meaningful films are as someone's assistant or orchestrator (and you really are wanting to be a composer). They will not take you seriously. I have learned this from some big name hollywood producers and directors and have taken the advice to heart as I navagate my own career. I find it interesting that from more than one producer (some of whom have done some big academy nominated work), the above message is pretty much universal. And if nothing else, it is counter intuitive...that is for sure. 

Sure...the Zimmer / Media Ventures model has changed how things are done and has turned some compositional gigs into group projects. Some have even made a name for themselves outside of that environment. But that is really the exception and not the rule. In that situation, at the end of the day, the only composer career being built in the long run is the guy who gets the on screen credit as "composer." It is the first question an agent gets asked, "well...what's he done?" And, any credits where you are not the main composer, I guarantee you don't count as much as many think they do. 

Don't get me wrong...assisting another composer is valid work. I respect it a lot. For a lucky few, there is good money to be made there. I have even done some ghost writing when I was first out of USC. But, one has to come to the realization that when you assist someone...yes, you are getting some personal experience in the industry, but as far as building your career as a composer and getting closer to "breaking in", an asssistant position is not the way to go. At the end of many years assisting another composer, I guarantee you that you will be in the same place you are now as far as being known for your work as a composer in the eyes of a hollywood producer or director. So...you might as well cut out the middle ground and begin building your career as a composer now. Find a way. This is where everyone's path is different. 

So...what to do? First of all...you have to break into the business of tomorrow, not the business of today. Today's directors and producers already have composers they trust implicently (case in point, the said assistant's boss). There is no breaking into that. Any project with serious money, studios, or people behind it is not going to trust someone without any serious "music composed by" credits to their name. And again, studio film credits on big films where you were an assistant or ghost writer don't count. They see through that now. Heck...even IMDb won't list additional music credits or scoring assistant credits in the music section any more. Only the lead composer is given the original music credit there any more. All assistants/additional music/uncredited ghost writers go in the Misc. crew section now. So...in order to build your name as a composer, you need to get credits on films composing. And make sure it is you and only you. You are the one on screen. You are the one solely responsible for the music for that $1M feature, that $10M feature, etc...
This is why it takes so long to break in. 

I would be happy to share personal examples with anyone in private, but not on the board here.

:smile:


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## José Herring (Apr 18, 2006)

Tough one. I did an intership. It ended in disaster. I don't make a good slave. On the other hand. It worked for Harry Gregson Williams. So I guess it depends on the guy you're working for and what he honestly thinks of you.

Best,

Jose


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## PaulR (Apr 19, 2006)

Aesop Colindry @ Tue Apr 18 said:


> Hello,
> What do you guys and gals think of all this? Thank you for your interest and time spent reading the above.



You haven't stated in your post what exactly you were expecting.


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## synthetic (Apr 19, 2006)

If I was 20 years old and single, knowing what I know now, I would have taken that gig. You would get at least six known films on your resume and an invaluable education in film music. If you went and got your masters somewhere on an accellerated pace you would also be worked to death, maybe not the same number of hours though. 

I did film sound for six years on independant films and ended up with jack for a resume. Cream rises to the top, and the name projects are going to have better people working for them in many cases. If you're going to work on name projects, they demand 80+ hours a week from you. Music comes at the end of the film process and there's too much on the line for you to work 40 hour weeks.


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## Mike Greene (Apr 19, 2006)

Brian Ralston @ Tue Apr 18 said:


> First of all...in almost all cases...anyone who thinks that being an assistant to a bigger composer is going to get you any closer to breaking into a career as a "film composer"...they are kidding themselves.
> 
> So...what to do? First of all...you have to break into the business of tomorrow, not the business of today. Today's directors and producers already have composers they trust implicently (case in point, the said assistant's boss). There is no breaking into that. Any project with serious money, studios, or people behind it is not going to trust someone without any serious "music composed by" credits to their name.


Great post Brian. I agree with almost everything you said, but I will take small issue with the first sentence I quoted you on though. While it's true that no big film will hire someone with only assisting credits, those assisting credits can still be useful further down the food chain. I know of one instance where I lost a gig to a guy who's main credits were "Programming." This other composer was very creative (and technically honest) in how he presented all his credits and it worked, at least in that case. (It couldn't be that I lost the gig just on the basis of talent, right? :mrgreen: )

The second paragraph quoted is right on. I have several friends who produce or direct big time movies. I don't even bother embarassing myself by asking for a shot at composing for them because I know that even IF they thought I'd be great (and that would be a task to convince them of that, since my credits are low budget TV and Barbie commercials) they still would have an enormous battle convincing the studios to let them use me. As one producer told me, "You have to choose which things you want to battle the studio on, because they're not going to give in on many."

Still, I'm on the fence about whether I would have taken the gig. Though rare, there have been success stories.

- Mike Greene


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## Aesop Colindry (Apr 19, 2006)

@ Paul R 

I really didn't have any concrete expectations. In general, I expected what actually happened. I was offered a chance to go onto bigger things. That was what I expected. I was/am grateful for the offer and I feel I won't be certain I chose the "correct" path anytime soon. I brought it to the forum's attention merely as a topic to discuss. The offer given to me is probably a standard one in this industry (or close to it). I guess I was wondering who out there made something of the offer given to them. 

@ Everyone 

Thanks for your comments. They are much appreciated.


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## José Herring (Apr 19, 2006)

Aesop Colindry @ Wed Apr 19 said:


> @ Paul R
> 
> The offer given to me is probably a standard one in this industry (or close to it). I guess I was wondering who out there made something of the offer given to them.



I don't know how standard it is. I've only really heard of this kind of thing going on at Media Ventures or Mike Post studio( I don't think Mike Post though has anything going on like that now, but I'm not sure).

Well at anyrate if you've made your decision, don't regret it. It's done. Be certain about your decision then move on.

Truth is out of the 20 or so assistant composers that I've met in this town only 2 or 3 stuck it out long enough so that some work actually came out of it. Sometimes 10 years or more. So it's a trade off really. Not that it couldn't work but the commitment to servitude is a bit more than most people are willing to commit.

Truth is I'd keep in touch with this guy and try to strike up a more professional relationship. Maybe down the line he may need an orchestrator or a programmer and in the future you could charge on a project by project basis.

Best,

Jose


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## midphase (Apr 20, 2006)

> The second source of my view is having worked in LA. If you want a balanced life, get a job as a teacher, go home at 3PM and spend the rest of the day writing and being with your family.
> 
> If you want to work in LA, if you want to work at ANY job, music or non-music, where you can excel and earn good to fabulous money, then you accept that your life is going to be out of balance, because that's the nature of the industry, and business at large. I talked to Klaus Badelt about this once. His response was, "what family life?" And he's both a husband and a father.




I honestly think that this type of philosophy is bullshit! Don't get me wrong, there are always crunch times when the nights and week-ends go out the window, but to live one's life enslaved to one's work 24/7 is absurd and psychologically questionable. If Klaus Badelt really ignores his kids and wife in lieu of his career, then he should have really thought twice before starting a family in the first place.

I think that it's perfectly fine to be passionate about what one does, and to want to excel at it by devoting extra hours in the day beyond the normal call of duty, but some of these stories of 12-15 hour days working seem more like obsessive workaholic behavior than what a normal passionate human being should be subjected to.

There is a lot of upheaval in the videogame developer community about this type of phenomenon, I say the sooner we start treating ourselves like human beings, the sooner others will too.

Now, I tend to also agree with Brian about the pros and cons of being an assistant. I know several guys who went that route and once out were right back to doing the small budget indie films that they would have gotten without the internship/assistant credits. 

I do believe quite a bit in destiny (not in a passive way, but definitely that stars line up differently for different people), and to that point I have never heard an accomplished composer tell the same story twice about how they got their big break. I am very suspicious about those "We'll tell you how to make it in show biz" type of seminars and books because the truth is that nobody knows for sure. What worked for one guy, totally didn't work for another...and so on.

Ultimately, I think you made the right decision. At the risk of sounding like Obi-Wan...you have to listen to your feelings and let them guide you. If your inner voice told you that this wasn't the right path to take, then it's the right decision for you. Never mind what anyone of us says we would or would have not done....we are not you, and only you can determine what is good or bad for you.

Don't lose hope, opportunities abound...just stick it out, be smart, always value yourself and (most importantly) don't be afraid to say "no" to people that want to take advantage of you!


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## fitch (Apr 20, 2006)

i agree a bit about the destiny thing too .. but it does help to be in the right place at the right time .. and working for lots of different people helps to spread the network. 

personally i also think you made the right decision to walk away at some point too.. 

fine if you want to accept apprentice jobs for a while .. but you need to start building a network too .. 

good luck with it ..

and never look back :D


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## sbkp (Apr 20, 2006)

Amen, Kays!

- Stefan (trying to lead a balanced life)


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## Frederick Russ (Apr 20, 2006)

Kays - jedi master *bows*


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## Mike Greene (Apr 20, 2006)

midphase @ Wed Apr 19 said:


> If Klaus Badelt really ignores his kids and wife in lieu of his career, then he should have really thought twice before starting a family in the first place.


Amen. I know a few guys like this and it's sad. I could never do that to my son or wife.

I believe the workaholic thing in the guys I know is an overcompensation for a serious lack of social skills. In other words, by diving into work they can avoid having to deal with people or normal everyday life.

- Mike Greene


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## Peter Alexander (Apr 20, 2006)

Thonex @ Wed Apr 19 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Wed Apr 19 said:
> 
> 
> > The last few nights this week I went to bed at 2AM, 3AM and yesterday, 4AM.
> ...



About five hours later.


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## choc0thrax (Apr 20, 2006)

Err my usual bedtime is between 2-5 am. If I fall asleep before that it's probably because I didn't go to sleep at all the night before.


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## Daryl (Apr 20, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Thu Apr 20 said:


> Err my usual bedtime is between 2-5 am. If I fall asleep before that it's probably because I didn't go to sleep at all the night before.


I used to think nothing of going for days without sleep. I have found that I really can't do more than two all nighters in a row these days. Lat year I worked on a project that saw me only managing a couple of hours sleep a night for just under two weeks. I felt wrecked for the next month and hardly did any work at all. What was worse was that I didn't even have much of a social life either for that period, so I'm trying to avoid those sort of projects. However, they pay well :wink: 

D


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 20, 2006)

I'm just getting into the office now (1:15 p.m.), in time for a 5-martini lunch. After that I'm going to cavort with prostitutes for a couple of hours, followed by more drinking and some hard drugs. I plan on watching a lot of reality TV in bed at 10:00 tonight.


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## Brian Ralston (Apr 20, 2006)

midphase @ Thu Apr 20 said:


> This just up on Craigslist.....hmmmm coincidence?:



Maybe, maybe not. I think there is nothing wrong with a film composer having staff like this...advertising for assistants to do those things, etc... 

Young composers with the desire to break in just need to understand, that while their proximity to the "film composer" lifestyle would be close in a job like this...it will get them no closer to breaking in as a film composer than if they just started working on that goal themselves. On their own. A lot of young composers would take this job with the hope that it would help them become a film composer in the future. And that just is not the case. I would argue even that it actually would take them further and further away from "breaking in" the longer they do it. 

This is not just isolated to film composers either. I know some film editors who are in the same boat. A friend/acquaintence of mine has 3 emmys and he can't get a decent feature film to edit. They all see him as a "TV guy" and not a "Film guy." He makes a lot of money though. 

I just strongly believe one has to be careful and calculating at how they shape their career, especially at the beginning. For me, that means having to be picky about the jobs I agree to do and make sure they are moving you in the right direction. One composing job will lead to the next, that is for sure. And, if those jobs are good credits...chances are they will lead to other good composing jobs. Assistant jobs may lead to other good "assistant" jobs...but that is about where that line stops.

So...be an assistant to Zimmer...or to the wonderful Christopher Young...or Ed Shearmer, etc...but know that there is little chance they are going to refer you, their assistant, to other directors and producers for a job that they themselves would probably want. And if it is a job they don't want...chances are it is so small on the radar, that it is not going to be the big break you are hoping for anyway. Their network has been carefully crafted to be beneficial to them...and no one else if they have anything to do with it. 

Harsh but true. 

So...my encouragement is...be confident and go for it on your own. 

And I agree with Kays thoughts on destiny as well. There are some people you just know when you meet them that they have that special something you can't explain that they are probably going to go far.


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## Mike Greene (Apr 20, 2006)

midphase @ Thu Apr 20 said:


> This just up on Craigslist.....hmmmm coincidence?:


Definitely not the same guy.


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## Daryl (Apr 21, 2006)

Brian Ralston @ Fri Apr 21 said:


> So...be an assistant to Zimmer...or to the wonderful Christopher Young...or Ed Shearmer, etc...but know that there is little chance they are going to refer you, their assistant, to other directors and producers for a job that they themselves would probably want. And if it is a job they don't want...chances are it is so small on the radar, that it is not going to be the big break you are hoping for anyway. Their network has been carefully crafted to be beneficial to them...and no one else if they have anything to do with it.


Actually Hans Zimmer is one of the exceptions, in that he has mentored many composers into getting that big break and continues to do so. Obviously they have to toe the company line, but I can't think of another A-list film composer who gives credit and chances as often as HZ does.

D


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## scribe (Apr 21, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Apr 20 said:


> I'm just getting into the office now (1:15 p.m.), in time for a 5-martini lunch. After that I'm going to cavort with prostitutes for a couple of hours, followed by more drinking and some hard drugs. I plan on watching a lot of reality TV in bed at 10:00 tonight.



maybe my eyes are blurry but I can't seem to find such pics in your mag Nick.... :wink:


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## PaulR (Apr 21, 2006)

sbkp @ Thu Apr 20 said:


> Well, I guess life really does begin at 50



Oh yeah - happy birthday to Nick on his 50th birthday - belated.

Now I can legitimately call you a silly old liberal sod with fear of rancor!

:mrgreen:


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## Brian Ralston (Apr 21, 2006)

Daryl @ Fri Apr 21 said:


> Brian Ralston @ Fri Apr 21 said:
> 
> 
> > So...be an assistant to Zimmer...or to the wonderful Christopher Young...or Ed Shearmer, etc...but know that there is little chance they are going to refer you, their assistant, to other directors and producers for a job that they themselves would probably want. And if it is a job they don't want...chances are it is so small on the radar, that it is not going to be the big break you are hoping for anyway. Their network has been carefully crafted to be beneficial to them...and no one else if they have anything to do with it.
> ...



Zimmer an exception?....True. But, pretty much anyone who has come out of his wings to form their own career has done so after MANY years (Like 10 or more) working as an assistant at his studio. Even at that, it is a long shot to say the least. I know plenty who have been there for years and they are still no closer to their own careers. In my opinion, if the young composer guys who went that route had just tried to do it on their own, they would be much further in their careers and have many more meaningful "composer credits" to their name after 10 or 15 years of hard work as a composer, than after 10-15 years as a Zimmer assistant.


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## choc0thrax (Apr 21, 2006)

Like two years after Gregson-Williams started helping Hans he was getting credit as co-composing many films. Although Harry may be an exception because he actually has lots of talent.


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## midphase (Apr 21, 2006)

> In my opinion, if the young composer guys who went that route had just tried to do it on their own, they would be much further in their careers and have many more meaningful "composer credits" to their name after 10 or 15 years of hard work as a composer, than after 10-15 years as a Zimmer assistant.



I totally 100% agree with Brian also. Keep in mind that through the past 15 or so years, dozens (if not hundreds) have come through the MV doors to work as assistants to both HZ but also Jeff Rona, Henning Lohner, and many others who at some point or another had their studios there. Out of those, perhaps only a handful have gone on to become high end at what they do.

Now reverse that...and see how many composers have emerged in the past 15 years on their own and I think you'll see that MV is neither better nor worse than other strategies.


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## midphase (Apr 21, 2006)

I also want to stress once again that this is a business of variables. Everyone has a very unique story to their career (mine is totally different from Craig's, who is totally different from Mike and so on). 

You absolutely can't make the assumption that if you do exactly what James Newton-Howard did, or what Klaus Badelt did you will end up at the same place at the end of your journey. 

I also want to stress that as you age, different things become more or less important in your life. For example, when I was in high school....I wanted to rock! I dreamed of a life touring from city to city and playing live all the time. Nowadays that idea seems incredibly unappealing to me since I did grow to enjoy other things in my life that would be impossible if I was a live musician.

There will come a time when pulling all nighters and sleeping on studio couches becomes less appealing. To that degree, I do encourage your kids fresh out of school that still have access to family cash to get an internship and get an enormous amount of experience for a couple of years. Sometime, I think that that type of thing can be even more useful than a college degree for a young composer.


BTW.....how do I get my avatar back on???? I tried everything....if this forum not Safari compatible?


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## choc0thrax (Apr 21, 2006)

midphase @ Fri Apr 21 said:


> BTW.....how do I get my avatar back on???? I tried everything....if this forum not Safari compatible?



I've already accepted my avatarless fate.


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## JacquesMathias (Apr 21, 2006)

Brian Ralston @ Thu Apr 20 said:


> midphase @ Thu Apr 20 said:
> 
> 
> > This just up on Craigslist.....hmmmm coincidence?:
> ...




Very good words!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 21, 2006)

Thanks Paul, but you could have called me that last month too. 

And Scribe, I'm very good at hiding it.


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## Chrislight (Apr 21, 2006)

midphase @ Fri Apr 21 said:


> BTW.....how do I get my avatar back on???? I tried everything....if this forum not Safari compatible?



The avatars are definitely Safari compatible - just tried it even though I normally used Firefox. 

One thing is that the avatars have to be less than 100 x 100 pixels, so you might want to check your size. If that doesn't work and you have a URL for it, you can send it to me and I'll try and get it posted for you.  Same with you avatarless Choco. 

P.S. If you don't have it hosted somewhere, you can send me a pic and I'll host it (and post it!) for you.


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## madbulk (Apr 21, 2006)

midphase @ Thu Apr 20 said:


> This just up on Craigslist.....hmmmm coincidence?:



Geeze, I hope this isn't the position we've been talking about all this time. 
I do know who this one is.

More piling on.
Amen, Kays. I'd prefer to think Klaus was being glib. If he was just being honest, he'll want his time back someday. I can practically guarantee it.


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## kid-surf (Apr 21, 2006)

madbulk --who is it?

BTW -- your site be hilarious.... :mrgreen: 

Hopefully clients (a.k.a playa' pimps) get your sense of humor and are cool wit' dat homie. 

peace....


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## midphase (Apr 22, 2006)

> One thing is that the avatars have to be less than 100 x 100 pixels, so you might want to check your size.




Hmmm Chris, your avatar looks to me like it's bigger than the 100 x 100 size. 

My old avatar which I kick myself for changing was bigger than that but it worked fine.



Why oh why did I want to change it?


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## midphase (Apr 22, 2006)

Ha AH! I figured it out....it was a kbyte size issue more than an actual pixel size issue!!!!


Yeah...I'm back baby!


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