# Christopher Young and team on scoring Spider-Man 3



## synthetic (Jul 13, 2007)

My interview is on the homepage of the new TASCAM site. 

http://www.tascam.com/article;34,2036,703.html

Unfortunately Sony Music wouldn't let me post the MP3 demo of the GigaStudio 3 mockup. :( You'll have to trust me that it was cool.


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## John DeBorde (Jul 13, 2007)

I thought that was a pretty awesome score when I saw the film. Much better than the movie itself, which was OK.

I haven't seen the score CD for sale. Anyone know if they are releasing one?

Looking forward to reading your story synthetic. thanks for posting it.

-john


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## david robinson (Jul 13, 2007)

hi, 
yet another "composition" by committee.
is this the way all film music is headed - i hope not.
the music being better than the film it's in? that wouldn't be hard.
i looks like to me, that the latest few generations of human beings in the first world have been bread just to cater for/consume stuff like this.

i know you all know and largely respect Mr F. Zappa.
this man, for any number of reasons, was dead against this sort of homogenisation.
well, i suppose it couples well with corporate rock and the ipod.
best, david r.


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## choc0thrax (Jul 13, 2007)

It's funny how he talks about making the transition from Danny's themes to his own music seamless yet when you watch the main titles the difference between their music is jarring and stands out.


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## Niah (Jul 14, 2007)

hhmmmmm.....they used sonic implants and project sam...

what a surprise !

:roll:


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## Niah (Jul 14, 2007)

synthetic @ Fri Jul 13 said:


> My interview is on the homepage of the new TASCAM site.
> 
> http://www.tascam.com/article;34,2036,703.html
> 
> Unfortunately Sony Music wouldn't let me post the MP3 demo of the GigaStudio 3 mockup. :( You'll have to trust me that it was cool.



Hey synthetic,

I was intrigued by the last part where chris says that the uses gigastudio to manipulate and create sounds and unusual textures. Do you know what is he talking about? What sort of capabilities does giga possesses to manipulate sound?


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## Brian Ralston (Jul 14, 2007)

I haven't seen Chris without a goatee since USC. I had to do a double take at the photo. He must have recently got rid of it. 

Using Gigastudio to "manipulate" most likely means using the giga instrument editor to create instruments out of their unique live recorded sounds and to shape those sounds in the editor with the various filters and such. 

I know Max Blomgren on Chris' team. He and I were at USC in the film scoring program together back in 2002. Max was always pretty good at the giga instrument editor. And a really nice guy to boot. In fact, pretty much everyone that works for Chris is usually a nice guy. And of course, Chris himself is great too.


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## Brian Ralston (Jul 14, 2007)

david robinson @ Fri Jul 13 said:


> hi,
> yet another "composition" by committee.
> is this the way all film music is headed - i hope not.



I have copies of quite a few of Chris' original sketches for quite a lot of his films. His sketches are quite complete, depending on what the gig is that is. If it is big and orchestral...there are 12 line sketches (or more). But, sometimes if it is simple, Chris will sing into a tape recorder while he plays the piano and one of his guys will then transcribe that recording onto paper. (Chris's singing is really funny to hear only because his voice - from years of smoking - is very raspy and smokey). Chris will then look at the sketch made from his recording and make changes as such and it becomes a multi step process from there until it gets to a point where an orchestrator can turn it into a full score. Then the programmer guys mock up that full score and once approved at the show and tell...the copyists begin making parts for the live orchestra. Or if not approved, it goes back for revisions and starts over again. 

So...in a way there is a committee of folks helping realize Chris's music. But I have known people who have worked over with the Zimmer crowd in the past as well and comparatively speaking...that is composition by committee. Working for Chris Young is not. It really is him and his team is like his own hands. Chris is a pencil and score paper kind of composer. Chris is not very good with the technology so he hires guys who are so he can keep up with the expectations studios have of composers today. He has worked out a system that works for him...but it really is all him and his ideas. 

o-[][]-o


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## José Herring (Jul 15, 2007)

I have to agree with Brian. It appears that Chris is writing the music the old fashion way and that his team are just mockup and sound design guys. Pretty standard for classically trained composers.

Jose


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## midphase (Jul 15, 2007)

> Pretty standard for classically trained composers.



I think you meant "old school composers" 

I am classically trained and I use computers routinely as I'm sure many others around here who were classically trained.


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## José Herring (Jul 15, 2007)

I meant what I said. We are the rarity that have decided to embrace both worlds. Stop by a conservatory like Juilliard and you'll know what I mean. Most classically trained guys are still pushing pencil and paper as the only means of creative output.


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## midphase (Jul 15, 2007)

Well...then surely you will agree that the "classically trained" guys who you are describing probably have no interest in film or TV work.

Plenty of my colleagues received a classical musical education yet realized that if they had any aspirations to work professionally in the world of film and TV they had better get a grip on technology.


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## synthetic (Jul 15, 2007)

I consider Chris to be one of a dying breed who writes his music down for a live orchestra to play. Most composers at his level are playing it into a sequencer, and you can tell by the music IMO. Rather than tutti orchestra playing piano chords, he writes melodies and counter lines for sections of the orchestra. Perhaps that's why the contrast from Elfman's to Young's themes was so jarring, they come from two millennia of compositional technique.


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## José Herring (Jul 15, 2007)

Having been a Chris Young fan since his "Hellraiser" days I can say in all honesty that his score for Spiderman didn't work for me. It's actually got me seriously considering this very topic.

Yes, Midphase, I do realize that many film and TV composers have embraced the technology. Mostly out of economic necessity, but fewer have accepted it as nothing better than a compromise. Very few of us have accepted it as a really artistic and expressive medium. Very few. 

So this whole issue has gotten me thinking quite a bit these days about my role in all of this technology. I'm now to the point of not demanding any less of a sampled orchestra than I would of highly trained and gifted orchestras. I've really started to think differently about it and it's expanding what I can do.

So I read an article where Elfman said that he sequences everything and then replaces the strings, ww, brass with live players while keeping all the other, synths, percussion parts in, and I started thinking why not think like that. Rather than thinking of the orchestration techniques that where designed around a live orchestra in a hall setting.

So the debate between "old school" and "new school" rages on a bit. I'm starting to realize that it's a silly debate. There's one school. That guy who at the end of the day music sounds better in a film. This Spiderman was a good example of two types of composers kind of going head to head and I'm sorry to admit that Danny had this one nailed in Spidy 1 and 2 in a way that imo Chris didn't deliver.

It's a bit one sided of course as I think Chris' work on sophisticated dark thriller films way kills Danny's work in the same genre. Dolorous Claiborne was a joke score compared to Chris Young's Copycat, ect.

But Spidy 3 was interesting to hear. Chris was applying all the orchestration techniques and all the counterpoint of all our books and it's clear from the opening title that it just sounded thin and weak compared to the massy buildup of Danny's layering. 

So I'm writing from my ear, intelligence and heart these days and I think my stuff is getting much better. I use to cling to the old techniques but perhaps they just don't server us in a new medium.

Jose


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## Daryl (Jul 15, 2007)

I can't really say that I liked the score to Spidey 3, but then I didn't really like 1 & 2 either. What I can say that is I think that most of the criticism is due to The Law of Sequels"; a score by a "new" composer will never be as good as the score by the original. This is more due to the fact that we already have an opinion of how the score should sound, than the quality of the writing, so the new guy is nearly always on a hiding to nothing.

D


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## synthetic (Jul 15, 2007)

josejherring @ Sun Jul 15 said:


> I'm sorry to admit that Danny had this one nailed in Spidy 1 and 2 in a way that imo Chris didn't deliver.



Chris wrote a bunch of Spidey 2 after Danny walked, including the Train/Graditude sequence which is my favorite piece of score from that film.


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## choc0thrax (Jul 15, 2007)

Chris young train sequence: http://www.officialchristopheryoung.com/video.html (have to select Spiderman 2 to play it)

and Danny Elfman train sequence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNaMn2CSHx0


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## José Herring (Jul 15, 2007)

synthetic @ Sun Jul 15 said:


> josejherring @ Sun Jul 15 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry to admit that Danny had this one nailed in Spidy 1 and 2 in a way that imo Chris didn't deliver.
> ...




Yes. I remember thinking that the train sequence was one hell of a piece of music both action wise and dramatically. I think that's why I was shocked in Spidey 3 that it just didn't build on the great work that he'd already done for the film as the "ghost" guy.

But you're absolutely correct that that sequence was some of the better music of the entire franchise.

Ah well, RIP Spidey. Hopefully it will be a while before we see another. I think this franchise is tapped.

Jose


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## Niah (Jul 15, 2007)

choc0thrax @ Mon Jul 16 said:


> Chris young train sequence: http://www.officialchristopheryoung.com/video.html (have to select Spiderman 2 to play it)
> 
> and Danny Elfman train sequence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNaMn2CSHx0



Danny wins.

Faaaaatality...


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## Niah (Jul 15, 2007)

josejherring @ Mon Jul 16 said:


> synthetic @ Sun Jul 15 said:
> 
> 
> > josejherring @ Sun Jul 15 said:
> ...



It seems that there's going to be another one in 2009. *fear*

spiderman is becomming like the 90's batman sequels, the first two (Burton) were acceptable the others were just painful to watch.


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## choc0thrax (Jul 15, 2007)

Danny always wins.


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## José Herring (Jul 15, 2007)

I disagree. I don't think Danny's piece works as well. Danny took more of the "Superhero" kicking ass approach. His piece is more thematic and more heroic, but he's missing the sense of danger and pacing that the film really needed at this moment. Plus Danny is relying too heavily on percussion to drive the piece rather than the harmony and the notes driving the piece.

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## Niah (Jul 16, 2007)

The thing is that this scene is almost all CGI, and the old school cue by Chris just doesn't blend well with the plasticity of the visuals.

Imagine Chris scoring Hulk like that....


Still I love Chris and his music but CGI movies isn't his game.


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## Daryl (Jul 16, 2007)

Niah @ Mon Jul 16 said:


> The thing is that this scene is almost all CGI, and the old school cue by Chris just doesn't blend well with the plasticity of the visuals.
> 
> Imagine Chris scoring Hulk like that....
> 
> ...


No score could have saved Hulk :lol: 

D


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## Niah (Jul 16, 2007)

Daryl @ Mon Jul 16 said:


> Niah @ Mon Jul 16 said:
> 
> 
> > The thing is that this scene is almost all CGI, and the old school cue by Chris just doesn't blend well with the plasticity of the visuals.
> ...



:lol:


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 16, 2007)

And no score could have saved Spider-Man 3, which dollars to donuts is the root of all the turmoil about composers anyway. It was a particularly nasty film.


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## José Herring (Jul 16, 2007)

Niah @ Mon Jul 16 said:


> The thing is that this scene is almost all CGI, and the old school cue by Chris just doesn't blend well with the plasticity of the visuals.
> 
> Imagine Chris scoring Hulk like that....
> 
> ...



That's precisely why it works. Danny's superhero take on the scene makes it look like a Saturday morning cartoon. I'm sure that's why the cue was canned. It has no emotional depth. That scene needed some emotional content in an otherwise pretty blah movie.

Jose


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## José Herring (Jul 16, 2007)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Jul 16 said:


> And no score could have saved Spider-Man 3, which dollars to donuts is the root of all the turmoil about composers anyway. It was a particularly nasty film.



That's why ultimately I felt pretty sorry for Chris on this one. The whole movie wasn't working and then I'm sure he was expected to come in and try to save it. But, how could he. Hard to save bad scripts. 

Jose


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## C.M.Dess (Jul 29, 2007)

XX


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## David A (Feb 14, 2008)

I liked the score to Spider-Man 3, personally. There were some interesting moments-the fight between Harry and Peter was very classy!

Dave A.


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## David A (Feb 16, 2008)

synthetic @ Fri Jul 13 said:


> My interview is on the homepage of the new TASCAM site.
> 
> http://www.tascam.com/article;34,2036,703.html
> 
> Unfortunately Sony Music wouldn't let me post the MP3 demo of the GigaStudio 3 mockup. :( You'll have to trust me that it was cool.



My friend, you wouldnt happen to have the Daniel Schweiger Chris Young interview on Spiderman 3-would you? Id be extremely grateful!


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## aeneas (Feb 16, 2008)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sat 16 Feb said:


> Punk u r. Bored am I wit u. Anal-yze this: while musicians are the closest to music, directors know nothing. Composers know it all when it comes to the score, Smalley's book is all you will ever need to learn how to write a great score, composition courses have a huge influence on your chances of making it as a film composer, you are responsible for the emotional impact of the film and should always stand up for what you think is right for it, regardless of what anyone else says. Notes are much, much more important than timbre, rhythm and spatial considerations, I am still in love with my mother, if the shoe fits wear it, birds of a feather flock together, especially in The Birds, Goo goo goo joob goo goo goo joob, goo gooooooooooo. jooba jooba jooba jooba jooba jooba, jooba jooba, jooba jooba, jooba jooba.


Well... so far, still only two options for 'kiddies': trust Ned who knows better, or trust the filmmaker who pays you. o 

The rest is just as both Ned and the Walrus said: jooba jooba, jooba jooba, jooba jooba, ... ... :lol:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Feb 16, 2008)

note to self: *Don't FEED the TROLL!*


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## aeneas (Feb 16, 2008)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sat 16 Feb said:


> note to self: *Don't FEED the TROLL!*


Well, then, you will probably starve yourself to death.

There was nothing troll-ish from my part - only from yours, IMO. I was addressing the broad points you were making about what's best for action cues. You were suggesting (actually, almost imposing your opinion) that a 'counterpoint' approach would work (always) better that an 'in-sync' approach. I was suggesting that it's the director's call to decide what's best: to hit or not to hit. So, I just said that the 'kiddies' (as you call those who you think to know less than you do) have two options: either to take your general advice and apply it everywhere, or to ask the director what he/she wants there. No, given your attitude, I take it back - there is only one option: guys, don't listen to the troll, ask the director what he/she wants, instead.

You call me a troll, then I'll call you a troll, _"Punk u r"_!


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## Ashermusic (Feb 16, 2008)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sat Feb 16 said:


> note to self: *Don't FEED the TROLL!*



Well, Ned, we finally agree on something

This guy loves this kind of arguing and all we do if we respond to him is bring him pleasure. I am done with it.


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