# Mac Studio not so great?



## Abjection (Jan 2, 2023)

Hello there, 

I’ve been working with a Mac Studio Ultra 20 core, 64gb ram version since October of 2022 - I came from a 2019 iMac i9 and I have to say I’ve had some pretty bad results consistently. 

I get regular system overloads, tons of pops and crackles, the playhead restarts randomly to the start of the project, random crashes, etc. I never had any issue of this sort on my
iMac and I’m starting to wonder if I somehow have a dud or something. I’m using Logic, 10.7.6.

Is this extremely irregular or does anyone else on here face these same issues? I’ve found a decent amount of folks on the apple forums having problems similar to mine but then I see others having zero issues; I’ve also spoke with apple support for hours and hours even sending them system profiles, etc and nothing helps.

Please if anyone can grant insight here I’d be extremely grateful to hear about your experience with this machine.

Thanks!


----------



## ssnowe (Jan 2, 2023)

Too many variables and not enough information to provide an insightful answer.

For example, sound interface used, how many tracks, what sample libraries, what else is running at the same time, what is running rosetta/what isn’t, operating system version, external drives vs internal drive usage, etc.

For reference I have a mac studio and it runs really well, but I may be working with completely different tools then you are.


----------



## IFM (Jan 2, 2023)

It appears you have several threads already discussing issues with your setup. Might it be better to continue on one of those with an update?


----------



## Abjection (Jan 2, 2023)

Sure,

Mac Studio Ultra - 20 core 64gb ram 
Logic Pro X 10.7.6
Ventura (was on Monterey initially as that is what it came with but I upgraded to Ventura out of desperation of issues, didn’t improve or make my problem any worse.)
1TB internal drive which has about 800 gigs free still.
Running an m.2 8tb drive for samples.
4tb Samsung t7 for sessions.
Session all native plugins, not Rosetta.
Could have as few as 5 tracks, with just kontakt using very little ram or cpu resources and still get said issue.


----------



## ssnowe (Jan 2, 2023)

In preferences you can tune how Logic uses cpu cores, have you adjusted this setting in any way? The external drive(s), Thunderbolt or USB?


----------



## Abjection (Jan 2, 2023)

ssnowe said:


> In preferences you can tune how Logic uses cpu cores, have you adjusted this setting in any way? The external drive(s), Thunderbolt or USB?


Yes I’ve tried basically every setting between which cores used, process buffer range, buffer size, etc…makes no difference - it’s really stressful as I’ve never had any dude with my prior intro mac machines. I feel like I’m on pc again as far as the amount of troubleshooting I’m having to do.


----------



## samtrino (Jan 2, 2023)

Did you set up the Studio as a new Mac from scratch or did you use Migration Assistant (or other) to move your data from the old iMac?


----------



## HCMarkus (Jan 2, 2023)

As a point of reference: I have the same Mac as our OP. Haven't moved to Ventura yet and have been extremely satisfied with the Studio Ultra running VI-heavy projects in DP11.21 Native with mostly Native plugins and a couple of Rosetta2 plugins (Altiverb). 

I've had a few crashes (hard quit of DP) along the way while scoring, referencing video access while simultaneously backing up to the BackBlaze, but these have been very rare.


----------



## Abjection (Jan 2, 2023)

samtrino said:


> Did you set up the Studio as a new Mac from scratch or did you use Migration Assistant (or other) to move your data from the old iMac?


I initially did a migrate, but then within a few days fully wiped the system and started from scratch


----------



## Abjection (Jan 2, 2023)

HCMarkus said:


> As a point of reference: I have the same Mac as our OP. Haven't moved to Ventura yet and have been extremely satisfied with the Studio Ultra running VI-heavy projects in DP11.21 Native with mostly Native plugins and a couple of Rosetta2 plugins (Altiverb).
> 
> I've had a few crashes (hard quit of DP) along the way while scoring, referencing video access while simultaneously backing up to the BackBlaze, but these have been very rare.


May I ask which DAW you use? I feel like these issues are specific to mac studio and Logic


----------



## ssnowe (Jan 2, 2023)

Have you brought up the system monitor (or whatever it is called) to look at CPU load when running logic? Is the cpu running hard? 

Honestly, it doesn’t seem like you are really doing anything that should cause the problems you are seeing here. You may have a marginal fan and are simply seeing overheating issues. 

One thing to try is to install something like mac fan control (https://crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control) and see if you can determine if the fan is the cause.


----------



## Abjection (Jan 2, 2023)

ssnowe said:


> Have you brought up the system monitor (or whatever it is called) to look at CPU load when running logic? Is the cpu running hard?
> 
> Honestly, it doesn’t seem like you are really doing anything that should cause the problems you are seeing here. You may have a marginal fan and are simply seeing overheating issues.
> 
> One thing to try is to install something like mac fan control (https://crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control) and see if you can determine if the fan is the cause.


Yes, I’ve brought up activity monitor, it isn’t even causing cpu overloads, like I said it just seems like random error not actually related to real-time overloads or anything of that sort, that’s why I wonder if I have some sort of issue with my computer in specific…


----------



## ssnowe (Jan 2, 2023)

Abjection said:


> Yes, I’ve brought up activity monitor, it isn’t even causing cpu overloads, like I said it just seems like random error not actually related to real-time overloads or anything of that sort, that’s why I wonder if I have some sort of issue with my computer in specific…


Try the fan control thing, see if that helps. Make sure the Mac is in a well ventilated area (i.e. not stuck in a drawer under a desk).

Based on everything you are describing you may have a marginal fan or power supply.


----------



## Abjection (Jan 2, 2023)

ssnowe said:


> Try the fan control thing, see if that helps. Make sure the Mac is in a well ventilated area (i.e. not stuck in a drawer under a desk).


Will do - it’s in a pretty standard open area atop a desk.


----------



## method1 (Jan 2, 2023)

I know it's not easy to switch DAWs, but have you tried something else to see if you have the same problems? I have a lower spec studio m1 max running very well with cubase 12 & reaper only using native mode & plugins)


----------



## Abjection (Jan 2, 2023)

method1 said:


> I know it's not easy to switch DAWs, but have you tried something else to see if you have the same problems? I have a lower spec studio m1 max running very well with cubase 12 & reaper only using native mode & plugins)


Yes, I’m not super familiar with reaper but I did try some sessions in there and didn’t seem to have any issues, however, it’s hard to really say as those are more benchmark style tests as to where when I’m actually doing real work in logic is when I truly face issues as they can be intermittent l


----------



## method1 (Jan 2, 2023)

Yea that sucks, I have noticed in general people having issues with logic, unfortunate since one would expect it to work the best on apple silicon.


----------



## ssnowe (Jan 2, 2023)

Try something like this to stress test your Mac: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/endurance-cpu-stress-test/id1590043284?mt=12


----------



## ssnowe (Jan 2, 2023)

Abjection said:


> Yes, I’m not super familiar with reaper but I did try some sessions in there and didn’t seem to have any issues, however, it’s hard to really say as those are more benchmark style tests as to where when I’m actually doing real work in logic is when I truly face issues as they can be intermittent l


Logic has been pretty solid for me on my m1 macs. Wonder if you have a plugin that is messing with its stability. Maybe turn off all non logic plugins, add back kontakt and work from there.


----------



## proggermusic (Jan 2, 2023)

For what it's worth, I got a Mac Studio M1 with 64GB and it's been working flawlessly... some inevitable migration growing pains (and some license/iLok headaches) but since those issues have been resolved it's been like driving a Ferrari. (I'd imagine. I've never actually driven a Ferrari.)

If it's still exhibiting issues with all your external devices disconnected, I'd agree that it's probably a component issue and worthy of a visit to Apple support.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Jan 2, 2023)

I just switched from PC to mac studio 64gb and I'm also having overloads with small track counts. Sometimes it seems fine, though. It's very random. I will say Cubase has worked much smoother than Logic for me...


----------



## Axl (Jan 2, 2023)

I had some huge spikes with my Mac M1. I also had a fun problem with scaler running out of tune (turns out I need to run logic in Rosetta)

Are you familiar with logic? There are a lot of performance tweaks you can do. Just search for it, there are some good YouTube videos that explain everything. Maybe your system is not properly optimized.
Is your Kontakt instruments optimized?
Try to run blackmagic disc speed tool that is on App Store.
What is the buffer currently?


----------



## HCMarkus (Jan 2, 2023)

IMO, the only area any M1 Mac may be deficient is when a single thread is asked to work too hard. This can happen with some very heavy VIs, or with a lengthy string of plugins on a single channel strip. I've noticed this on rare occasion; the funny thing is, you can keep adding more VIs and plugins and the load doesn't change... it just keeps going and going and going...

To the OP: DP = Digital Performer; that's my DAW.

Apple's Activity Monitor utility might reveal some clues as to the point(s) of friction in your system. You can run it concurrently with your DAW and check CPU Processes as they are happening.

Also, pick up the App PlugInfo for $2.99 at App Store. You can quickly scan your plugins and identify any that are Non-Native to Apple Silicon.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Jan 2, 2023)

HCMarkus said:


> IMO, the only area any M1 Mac may be deficient is when a single thread is asked to work too hard. This can happen with some very heavy VIs, or with a lengthy string of plugins on a single channel strip. I've noticed this on rare occasion; the funny thing is, you can keep adding more VIs and plugins and the load doesn't change... it just keeps going and going and going...
> 
> To the OP: DP = Digital Performer; that's my DAW.
> 
> ...


I noticed that too. It spikes high and early for me, but doesn't budge too much more after that


----------



## Abjection (Jan 2, 2023)

proggermusic said:


> For what it's worth, I got a Mac Studio M1 with 64GB and it's been working flawlessly... some inevitable migration growing pains (and some license/iLok headaches) but since those issues have been resolved it's been like driving a Ferrari. (I'd imagine. I've never actually driven a Ferrari.)
> 
> If it's still exhibiting issues with all your external devices disconnected, I'd agree that it's probably a component issue and worthy of a visit to Apple support.


May I ask what DAW you use?
Thanks!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 2, 2023)

ssnowe said:


> Logic has been pretty solid for me on my m1 macs. Wonder if you have a plugin that is messing with its stability. Maybe turn off all non logic plugins, add back kontakt and work from there.



Exactly what ssnowe says, only before that I'd try using the internal sound output, because this sounds like an audio interface driver murder.

I've been running Logic on a Max with 64GB, also since late August, recently updated to Ventura, and have not had the same experience at with Monterey or Ventura. On the contrary, it's been fantastic.

I run it at a 64-sample buffer, by the way.



proggermusic said:


> If it's still exhibiting issues with all your external devices disconnected, I'd agree that it's probably a component issue and worthy of a visit to Apple support.


That's also a possibility, unfortunately one that's very hard to troubleshoot.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 2, 2023)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I noticed that too. It spikes high and early for me, but doesn't budge too much more after that


Yes. I've been wondering whether the meter in Logic is farkakte, or at least whether it's worth paying attention to.


----------



## cuttime (Jan 2, 2023)

I'm on a 10 core Max with Monterey with MOTU DP and I'm willing to wager that it is plugin related. When you use Kontakt, are you using Multis, or are you using one instrument per instance? Popular opinion says that this affects core performance. There are other settings in Kontakt that I find are totally arcane and counter-intuitive.


----------



## proggermusic (Jan 2, 2023)

Abjection said:


> May I ask what DAW you use?
> Thanks!


Logic Pro, latest update! All's well, just had a long recording session today (remote-style) and everything worked like a charm.


----------



## Abjection (Jan 2, 2023)

proggermusic said:


> Logic Pro, latest update! All's well, just had a long recording session today (remote-style) and everything worked like a charm.


Using many virtual instruments? Did you setup your system fresh or migratation?

Thanks!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 2, 2023)

Abjection said:


> Using many virtual instruments? Did you setup your system fresh or migratation?
> 
> Thanks!



If you used Migration Assistant for V.I.s, that would be a very likely explanation for the problems you're having.

It's great for setting up your new machine so it's just like your previous one, but music software needs to be updated for the new processor, never mind the latest OSes. I was only able to update to Ventura recently - there's software that works fine on M1s under Monterey that still needs updating.


----------



## Loïc D (Jan 2, 2023)

FWIW, everytime I had serious troubles with LPX, it was related to surface controls. Uninstall/reinstall solved the issue. It might be related to a plugin too (good luck) !

PS : same sample rate btw your DAW and your gear?


----------



## proggermusic (Jan 3, 2023)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> If you used Migration Assistant for V.I.s, that would be a very likely explanation for the problems you're having.
> 
> It's great for setting up your new machine so it's just like your previous one, but music software needs to be updated for the new processor, never mind the latest OSes. I was only able to update to Ventura recently - there's software that works fine on M1s under Monterey that still needs updating.


Yes, agreed on all fronts. I did a partial migration, using Time Machine to restore certain aspects from my old computer but being granular about most. Since I was going from Intel to Apple Silicon, I knew I'd need to reinstall basically all of my third-party music software, which I did. But that's a headache I was prepared for, so it wasn't that big of a deal for the most part. (The most irritating one to get working was, right on cue, Finale...)


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 3, 2023)

I'd still like to know about the audio interface.

Obviously this isn't the way Mac Studios running Logic behave all the time or we'd be seeing nothing but complaints (and the loudest ones would be from me), so there has to be something else going on.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Jan 3, 2023)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I'd still like to know about the audio interface.
> 
> Obviously this isn't the way Mac Studios running Logic behave all the time or we'd be seeing nothing but complaints (and the loudest ones would be from me), so there has to be something else going on.


for me, i use zoom u-24


----------



## babylonwaves (Jan 3, 2023)

I have a Mac Studio M1 Ultra and use Logic/Monterey. Totally happy. I don't think what you experience is a generic issue. 

In Logic, the selected track uses a smaller buffer size. That, in combo with e.g. a lot of CPU taxing plug-ins on the master channel, can get a single core to the limit and you might see overloads. If you get overloads while recording (or in general on the selected track), enable low latency mode. It's also a good idea to have a track somewhere in the arrangement with nothing on, not even an output. If your issues go away when you select that track you know that the problem is likely to be buffer size related.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 3, 2023)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> for me, i use zoom u-24


So we now know that the Zoom U-24 and Metric Halo 2882 3D interfaces aren't a problem.

I still wonder whether the issue is Abjection's audio interface driver.


----------



## proggermusic (Jan 3, 2023)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> So we now know that the Zoom U-24 and Metric Halo 2882 3D interfaces aren't a problem.
> 
> I still wonder whether the issue is Abjection's audio interface driver.


Now that you mention it... the "pops and crackles" in the OP sound like they might be A/D jitter. That would definitely be an interface/driver issue.

At the risk of sounding like a fawning fan-boy, I'll use this opportunity to enthusiastically support the fine folks at RME...  My interface was the LAST thing I had to worry about during migration. Best damn drivers in the business, and rock-solid hardware. Love 'em to death.


----------



## HCMarkus (Jan 3, 2023)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> So we now know that the Zoom U-24 and Metric Halo 2882 3D interfaces aren't a problem.
> 
> I still wonder whether the issue is Abjection's audio interface driver.


Add MOTU 828ES and PreSonus Quantum 2626 to the list of "No Problem."


----------



## kgdrum (Jan 3, 2023)

proggermusic said:


> Now that you mention it... the "pops and crackles" in the OP sound like they might be A/D jitter. That would definitely be an interface/driver issue.
> 
> At the risk of sounding like a fawning fan-boy, I'll use this opportunity to enthusiastically support the fine folks at RME...  My interface was the LAST thing I had to worry about during migration. Best damn drivers in the business, and rock-solid hardware. Love 'em to death.


Agreed I’m a happy RME UCX user,great interface and drivers. I’m getting better with TotalMix but sometimes it throws me,it’s a really deep app with almost endless possibilities that sometimes owerwhelms my small mind.


----------



## proggermusic (Jan 3, 2023)

kgdrum said:


> Agreed I’m a happy RME UCX user,great interface and drivers. I’m getting better with TotalMix but sometimes it throws me,it’s a really deep app with almost endless possibilities that sometimes owerwhelms my small mind.


TotalMix is more than most solo composer/musicians need, but it really is an amazing piece of technology – probably would have cost $1k on its own in 1999, now it comes bundled free.


----------



## kgdrum (Jan 3, 2023)

proggermusic said:


> TotalMix is more than most solo composer/musicians need, but it really is an amazing piece of technology – probably would have cost $1k on its own in 1999, now it comes bundled free.


Yeah it used to drive me nuts,lol I still can’t grasp the matrix screen 😳
I first bought a FF800 in about 2005 and used it until the power supply died the 2nd time after about 12 years.
I replaced it with the UCX which I prefer, it sounds better,external power supply and I’m finally getting more comfortable with TOTALMIX.
I can generally figure out with a few 🤬 how to do anything basic I need.
One thing I haven’t figured out yet is how to have 2 separate headphone mixes so each player can have their own mix while recording /playing.
The reality is TOTALMIX is really only limited by the users understanding & skill set it’s pretty open ended.


----------



## IFM (Jan 3, 2023)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> So we now know that the Zoom U-24 and Metric Halo 2882 3D interfaces aren't a problem.
> 
> I still wonder whether the issue is Abjection's audio interface driver.


My Apollo x8 works flawlessly.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 4, 2023)

proggermusic said:


> Now that you mention it... the "pops and crackles" in the OP sound like they might be A/D jitter. That would definitely be an interface/driver issue.
> 
> At the risk of sounding like a fawning fan-boy, I'll use this opportunity to enthusiastically support the fine folks at RME...  My interface was the LAST thing I had to worry about during migration. Best damn drivers in the business, and rock-solid hardware. Love 'em to death.


RME makes excellent products, but I still think the "best drivers in the business" line is like... obligatory car analogy... Volvo claiming they make the safest cars.


----------



## proggermusic (Jan 4, 2023)

Hah, fair enough! There are some measurable differences between RME and competitors, though, which I think are pretty convincing. That isn't to say that numerous competitors won't deliver comparable results, of course. But I like that RME codes their own drivers, keeps everything as up-to-date as possible, and continues to support hardware that's ten or twenty years old. That isn't common in the digital realm!


----------



## kgdrum (Jan 4, 2023)

proggermusic said:


> Hah, fair enough! There are some measurable differences between RME and competitors, though, which I think are pretty convincing. That isn't to say that numerous competitors won't deliver comparable results, of course. But I like that RME codes their own drivers, keeps everything as up-to-date as possible, and continues to support hardware that's ten or twenty years old. That isn't common in the digital realm!


True if I wanted to replace the power supply on my FF800 from 2005 it would still work and with RME’s customer friendly approach it’s still supported.


----------



## kgdrum (Jan 4, 2023)

*Unofficial VI-C public service announcement*

In case it hasn’t been mentioned clearly, all of this interface discussion is relevant to this thread & probably obvious to most experienced DAW users but maybe not as obvious to some less experienced users who get a nice computer and try cutting corners,save some money & get a budget interface. 
It can’t be stressed enough how important the interface is to the entire system working as expected.
The wrong interface will limit the DAW and limit the computer’s performance.


----------



## babylonwaves (Jan 4, 2023)

Just a thought: if you don't know if the interface causes spikes/crackles switch to the internal speakers ("Mac Studio Speakers"). This way, you can hear if the interface causes it all. And if you're not sure, use a headphone to confirm.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 4, 2023)

proggermusic said:


> Hah, fair enough! There are some measurable differences between RME and competitors, though, which I think are pretty convincing. That isn't to say that numerous competitors won't deliver comparable results, of course. But I like that RME codes their own drivers, keeps everything as up-to-date as possible, and continues to support hardware that's ten or twenty years old. That isn't common in the digital realm!


Metric Halo is like that too. My interface has had two brain transplants and it's now 22 years old.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 4, 2023)

babylonwaves said:


> Just a thought: if you don't know if the interface causes spikes/crackles switch to the internal speakers ("Mac Studio Speakers"). This way, you can hear if the interface causes it all. And if you're not sure, use a headphone to confirm.


Right, that was what I suggested early on.

The main point is that this is a troubleshooting exercise, not a matter of the Mac Studio not being so great.

I think it is, actually.


----------



## kgdrum (Jan 4, 2023)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Metric Halo is like that too. My interface has had two brain transplants and it's now 22 years old.


Metric Halo makes some great products. When I moved from a MOTU 896 which I hated,it basically was a coin toss between RME & Metric Halo. 
These are both great companies that make great interfaces.


----------



## gyprock (Jan 4, 2023)

Can the title of the post be changed as it’s giving me buyer’s remorse anxiety. It’s a bit like saying that the woman you just married is ugly. Fortunately mine is a babe after 30 years. Naturally I call her Babyface after my RME that works flawlessly.


----------



## proggermusic (Jan 4, 2023)

Ah yeah, Metric Halo is the other big contender! They seem like a really great operation.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 4, 2023)

gyprock said:


> Can the title of the post be changed as it’s giving me buyer’s remorse anxiety. It’s a bit like saying that the woman you just married is ugly. Fortunately mine is a babe after 30 years. Naturally I call her Babyface after my RME that works flawlessly.


I call my wife 2882 3D. She's not ugly either.

And don't worry about the thread title. The Mac Studio is great.


----------



## HCMarkus (Jan 4, 2023)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> And don't worry about the thread title. The Mac Studio is great.


Yep.


----------



## rAC (Monday at 9:11 PM)

kgdrum said:


> Yeah it used to drive me nuts,lol I still can’t grasp the matrix screen 😳
> I first bought a FF800 in about 2005 and used it until the power supply died the 2nd time after about 12 years.
> I replaced it with the UCX which I prefer, it sounds better,external power supply and I’m finally getting more comfortable with TOTALMIX.
> I can generally figure out with a few 🤬 how to do anything basic I need.
> ...


Click on the headphone 1 output/s then arrange faders in rows 1 and 2 to get the desired mix, repeat for the headphone 2 output/s.


----------



## kgdrum (Monday at 9:25 PM)

rAC said:


> Click on the headphone 1 output/s then arrange faders in rows 1 and 2 to get the desired mix, repeat for the headphone 2 output/s.


Thank You @rAC 
This looks too simple,lol 
Thanks for the clear explanation.


----------

