# Kontakt very slow loading times with certain libraries: SOLVED



## Raindog

I´m on a Mac currently using High Sierra as my system (but had the same problem with Sierra) and the newest Kontakt build and an SSD disk to store my sample libraries

When I load libraries which are Kontakt-Player libraries (meaning that they appear within the library window) loading times are normal. When I try to load larger libraries which are not Kontakt Player compatible, loading times are very very slow (I don´t recall when this problem started, but it was not the case with previous Kontakt Versions). When I Close the library and reload it, loading times are back to normal. Resaving or batch resaving didn´t help. It´s the same with the Kontakt plugin (within Logic X) or the standalone version.

Has anyone else seen this strange behaviour with different loading times dependant on the state of the library? This is definitely a problem as some projects now need about 10 minutes to load properly.
Best regards
Raindog


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## mac

If you give an example library or preset, and I have it here, I can see if mine performs the same (we're using similar setups).


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## EvilDragon

Don't use High Sierra just yet, if at all possible...

https://www.native-instruments.com/...path-missing-directories.322197/#post-1602319


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## Raindog

EvilDragon said:


> Don't use High Sierra just yet, if at all possible...
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/...path-missing-directories.322197/#post-1602319



The problem was already existent with Sierra, so I guess it´s not (or not completely) related to High Sierra. I have had no issues with High Sierra so far besides some relicensing issues with my Korg plugins. The SSD performs well. It´s the strange behaviour that Player-compatible libraries load much much faster than Non-Player-compatible libraries though they reside on the same disk. Strange but that´s the way it is. I googled and found several Posts with the same issue though I couldn´t find if there is a solution.
Best regards
Raindog


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## Raindog

mac said:


> If you give an example library or preset, and I have it here, I can see if mine performs the same (we're using similar setups).



The slow loading happens for the MadDrum instruments (as an example). The Drumasonic library of similar size (but Player-compatible) loads with normal Speed.

I have to check, if the libraries affected use ncw-compression or not. This could be something I haven´t thought of so far.

Best regards
Raindog


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## EvilDragon

NCW compression has not much to do with load time... however KP libraries being monolithed in a few big files as opposed to thousands of smaller times could have some influence, although they should be pretty marginal with SSDs...

No such troubles over here on W10


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## Raindog

EvilDragon said:


> NCW compression has not much to do with load time... however KP libraries being monolithed in a few big files as opposed to thousands of smaller times could have some influence, although they should be pretty marginal with SSDs...
> 
> No such troubles over here on W10



Thanks for claryfying the NCW-compression issue. Yes, maybe it´s a Mac specific problem. Sometimes you loose, sometimes you WIN 
Best regards
Raindog


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## mac

Sorry, I don't have those. Any others?


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## geronimo

mac said:


> Sorry, I don't have those. Any others?


Same situation with Soniccouture Electro-Acoustic _


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## Raindog

mac said:


> Sorry, I don't have those. Any others?



I´ll check once I´m home this evening
Best regards
Raindog


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## Raindog

Tried different libraries. There is no system, at least none I´m aware of. Some of the slow loading libraries have samples in wav. format, some are ncw-compressed. Another example that does load extremely slow are all the drums from Wavesfactory or all the instruments of Kirk Hunter. There is definitely something wrong with Kontakt and Mac OS.
Regards
Raindog


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## henrik242

I had a similar issue with a library I'm working on. In my case it appeared to be related to the Math library from Big Bob. I extracted just the functions I needed for my purpose, and after this the NKI was ready instantly. 

The issue occured on a Mac Pro (recent but not latest OS) with Motu PCI express 424 card, but it did not occur on a MacBook Pro using the internal audio interface.


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## tack

EvilDragon said:


> NCW compression has not much to do with load time...


If not decompression, what else could be the cause of a single core being pegged while the samples are being loaded into memory? I have always assumed this was caused by decompression overhead. (In fact I think I convinced myself of that based on the function names in the stack of that busy thread.)


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## Raindog

So, finally my problem has been solved. I googled once again and came by another thread moderated by glorious EvilDragon
https://www.native-instruments.com/...5-6-extreme-slow-loading-times-solved.314656/

Someone had the same problem on a windows computer and it turned out to be the virus scanner causing the slowing of the libraries. I have Kaspersky protection installed. When deactivating it, everything just loads fine. I did exclude my sample library folders from virus scanning and now everything is back to normality. Easy solution but I would have never thought about it without the thread mentioned above. I love the Internet 
Thanks EvilDragon
Best regards
Raindog


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## Raindog

EvilDragon said:


> NCW compression has not much to do with load time... however KP libraries being monolithed in a few big files as opposed to thousands of smaller times could have some influence, although they should be pretty marginal with SSDs...
> 
> No such troubles over here on W10



See my post above. Thank you so much for pointing me to the problem solution (though it was in another forum)


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## storyteller

tack said:


> If not decompression, what else could be the cause of a single core being pegged while the samples are being loaded into memory? I have always assumed this was caused by decompression overhead. (In fact I think I convinced myself of that based on the function names in the stack of that busy thread.)


I've been convinced this is what it is too, but I can't be sure. Libraries with large sample counts are the issue with me before the load begins. I'm talking instruments that reference 20-30GB of samples according to the lower left panel of Kontakt, but only load a small footprint into memory (say 100mb). In my particular example, my i7 on OSX pegs at 110% with the beachball for 20-30 seconds before the samples load in a single NKI (as if greater than 100% is even possible in Activity monitor, but this is what it reports). 

I've had various issues in libraries on different drives. I've done clean installs, changed Kontakt versions, changed drives, etc, etc. No dice. I'm a techie guy and this has been driving me bonkers since around 5.6, but it wasn't until this past week when I purchased a couple new libraries that are awesome but PAINFULLY slow to load that pushed my personal sanity limit on this issue. I've now posted on the NI board in two places and here trying to nip this is the bud. How can you work in any workflow when 1 single NKI takes 30 seconds of beachball before the samples load? Now multiply that by articulations per instrument. Even reducing to a couple of Keyswitch patches (which is not my preference) is a no-go in workflow.

For whatever reasons, these libraries also require a higher latency just to play without pops and crackles. No drive issues, no cpu issues being reported. It has to be a Kontakt issue....


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## EvilDragon

If an instrument has a ton of things going on (dozens of thousands of zones, hundreds upon hundreds or maybe even thousands of groups, all accompanied with a metric shitton of group FX and heavy inefficient scripting - I'm looking at you, OT!), parsing the NKI can take a bit of time.

I wouldn't say it's a Kontakt issue as much as it's a development issue - instruments not being optimized very well, or at all.


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## Levitanus

EvilDragon said:


> I'm looking at you, OT!


ohhh


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## storyteller

EvilDragon said:


> If an instrument has a ton of things going on (dozens of thousands of zones, hundreds upon hundreds or maybe even thousands of groups, all accompanied with a metric shitton of group FX and heavy inefficient scripting - I'm looking at you, OT!), parsing the NKI can take a bit of time.
> 
> I wouldn't say it's a Kontakt issue as much as it's a development issue - instruments not being optimized very well, or at all.


You are spot on. I ended up stripping out all of the groups I didn't need and that worked like a charm! I also made a video and posted this thread to help other users that are experiencing the slow load times with these particular Kontakt libraries.


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## robgb

EvilDragon said:


> I wouldn't say it's a Kontakt issue as much as it's a development issue - instruments not being optimized very well, or at all.



Is High Sierra a "go" yet? I'm still using Yosemite and wondering if I should upgrade or continue to wait.


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## EvilDragon

Asking a non-Mac guy that question 

It should be alright, 5.7.3 fixed some APFS and exFAT issues.


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## rrichard63

EvilDragon said:


> ... I'm looking at you, OT! ...


Who is OT? Thanks!


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## EvilDragon

Orchestral Tools.


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## storyteller

robgb said:


> Is High Sierra a "go" yet? I'm still using Yosemite and wondering if I should upgrade or continue to wait.


I haven't had any difficulties with High Sierra at all except for the surprise screen capture issue when using the zoom function. The Kontakt slowdowns I noticed began in Sierra with the last 5.6 update. I updated to High Sierra hoping to solve that, and it has all gone smoothly. In Kontakt, you have to click the Name header to sort files alphabetically each time you load it, otherwise they are out of order. NI is aware of the issue. It seems to be something that developers have to account for due to the APFS system. I've noticed it in a couple of other applications too. Other than that, smooth sailing.


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## GBStudio

EvilDragon said:


> Don't use High Sierra just yet, if at all possible...
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/...path-missing-directories.322197/#post-1602319





EvilDragon said:


> NCW compression has not much to do with load time... however KP libraries being monolithed in a few big files as opposed to thousands of smaller times could have some influence, although they should be pretty marginal with SSDs...
> 
> No such troubles over here on W10


HI there. Each time I searched online for info about Kontakt or Komplete Kontrol being slow I kept coming across your user name. I don't know whether you can help but basically I had everything working well, with load times being good (I had batch resaved everything and it definitely worked), then I decided to buy an SSD and migrate all of the audio instruments to the new SSD (having been on a regular Hard Drive beforehand). I used relocate to link to the new folders on my SSD and almost everything linked properly (except Arturia stuff, but I'll leave that for another day), but now everything loads really slowly (1-3 mins before I can play anything). I batch resaved the instruments, but when I open Kontakt or KK again, the load times are back to the slow speeds again. I have updated the Kontakt database, I've reset and scanned it. I've done everything I can think of, but nothing fixes it. Any ideas that might help? I should add that I didn't delete the files on my old drive (in case I need to go back to them), but I did move them all into a subfolder so that they are not sitting in the same place as they used to be. I doubt that is causing it, but who knows. I do sometimes hear my old drive working when I am doing stuff, so it may be that something is happening, when it shouldn't be. Any guidance would be really appreciated. Thank you in advance......


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## EvilDragon

Mac or Win?

If Mac - make sure SSD is *not *formatted as ExFAT, but macOS Journaled.

If Win - make sure there are exclusions for that drive in Windows Defender/Windows Security or whatever other antivirus you might have, so that AV doesn't butt in when Kontakt is trying to load the files.


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## GBStudio

Thanks. It’s a Mac. Format of internal and external SSD’s are AFPS. Previous non SSD Hard drive is AFPS too.

I have Sophos Home running on the Mac and have excluded lots of folders from real-time protection. The apps themselves, the application support folders for all native access; the instrument folders etc. I expect Sophos is impacting the speed but I’m not sure what other files/folders to exclude from real-time protection. I had these already set up previously so all I’ve done now is excluded the new folder with the instruments and samples on it on the new SSD. It had all worked normally beforehand.

I cant work it out.


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## storyteller

GBStudio said:


> Thanks. It’s a Mac. Format of internal and external SSD’s are AFPS. Previous non SSD Hard drive is AFPS too.
> 
> I have Sophos Home running on the Mac and have excluded lots of folders from real-time protection. The apps themselves, the application support folders for all native access; the instrument folders etc. I expect Sophos is impacting the speed but I’m not sure what other files/folders to exclude from real-time protection. I had these already set up previously so all I’ve done now is excluded the new folder with the instruments and samples on it on the new SSD. It had all worked normally beforehand.
> 
> I cant work it out.


Not sure if it will resolve your issue, but when AFPS debuted, I converted my drives to AFPS with my samples on them. The drives began chugging badly and seemed to get worse over time. I reformatted as AFPS and copied my samples back to the drives. It returned to a quick speed. That said, I have since gone back to journaled for my SSDs as the overall performance seems better than AFPS for sample streaming.


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## GBStudio

storyteller said:


> Not sure if it will resolve your issue, but when AFPS debuted, I converted my drives to AFPS with my samples on them. The drives began chugging badly and seemed to get worse over time. I reformatted as AFPS and copied my samples back to the drives. It returned to a quick speed. That said, I have since gone back to journaled for my SSDs as the overall performance seems better than AFPS for sample streaming.


Thanks. It’s a new drive and I formatted it before using it. I may have to do what you say but I’ll wait to see if I can fix it first by some other means. I have a support tickets raised with both Sophos and Native Instruments.


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