# Cubase Pro 8



## Guy Rowland

Cubase Pro 8 (as it's now called) Out December 3rd. Google Translated from a retailer (page since pulled)


 VCA faders for mixing and complex automation workflows

 Render in-place: Bounce MIDI and audio parts easily

 pads Chord: A great way to playfully and Creatively compose with chords

 Improved handling on Windows PC, dockable rack and MediaBay plus a redesigned Tracklist

 Groove Agent SE 4 Acoustic Agent gives you a world-class virtual acoustic drummer

 MIDI tempo detection: Jam along on a MIDI track without Rigidly Following The metronome

 Plug-in Manager: Arrange, sort and group your effects and instruments

 New Virtual Bass Amp, Quadra Fuzz v2, Multiband Expander Multiband envelope shaper effects

 Mixing Updates: Virgin territories automation mode, direct routing and Waves Meters

 Allen Morgan Pop-Rock Toolbox 30 construction kits, each with 25 to 30 audio and MIDI loops

More dodgy translations, this on the new windows handling:

Cubase Pro 8 introduces a new way of handling screen, a new "workspace organizer" which allows for a more efficente workflow. Screens can be freely placed on any screen and optionally be maximized and minimized, they can get their own title. All your screens are now also visible in the taskbar cubase. A preview screen and mini icons. The "always on top's" organized kleienere plugin screens even when you are in maximum screen works great as if the mixing console screen."

Course I could have waited a few hours for the English version, but where's the fun in that?

http://eos-web.net/ftp_newgroove/images_big/62632.jpg


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## MrCambiata

Great news. I moved to Cubase a few months ago basically because of the expression maps which are an amazing thing. Nice to see they are pushing this already strong software even further.


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## Jonathan Howe

Quick question:

I have Cubase 6.5 now. Would it be cheaper to wait and then upgrade to 8 immediately or is it smarter to get 7.5 now?

Thanks! 

Really like the Render-in-place Function as well!


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## Jdiggity1

and before anybody tries... steinberg forums will delete any thread related to this info it seems.

Thanks for this, Guy.


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## José Herring

This is a real improvement. Vca faders will be great for large templates. Render in place will save a lot of time.


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## Patrick de Caumette

I hope they improved the instruments rack... :evil:


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## RiffWraith

Jdiggity1 @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> and before anybody tries... steinberg forums will delete any thread related to this info it seems.



There's still a thread with this info.


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## Guy Rowland

Patrick de Caumette @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> I hope they improved the instruments rack... :evil:



Yeah, me too. Obviously the info out there is incomplete, so still hoping it's part of the windows revamp. All it needs is a proper collapsed mode and decent scrollbars really.

jdiggity - the Cubase 8 thread is in the Steinberg Lounge area of the forums.


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## jneebz

BOUNCE IN PLACE! Oh thank you GOD!

Thanks for sharing, this just made my year. Sad, but true :D 

-Jamie


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## FriFlo

Guy Rowland @ Tue Dec 02 said:


> Patrick de Caumette @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope they improved the instruments rack... :evil:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, me too. Obviously the info out there is incomplete, so still hoping it's part of the windows revamp. All it needs is a proper collapsed mode and decent scrollbars really.
> 
> jdiggity - the Cubase 8 thread is in the Steinberg Lounge area of the forums.
Click to expand...

They never do, what you want them to do!


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## Guy Rowland

It strikes me that a few of these features - especially the VCAs, bounce in place and maybe some automation mode enhancements - will be very attractive to the murderous Pro Tools crowd, many of whom are very unhappy with Avid's recent decisions. Steinberg should to a PT crossgrade price, that would throw the cat among the pigeons.

Plug In Manager sounds potentially useful too.


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## jamwerks

I wonder what it looks like? Skins?


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## givemenoughrope

josejherring @ Tue Dec 02 said:


> This is a real improvement. Vca faders will be great for large templates. Render in place will save a lot of time.



I've never understood using VCA's. Why not just buss everything to a group? Or maybe I'm missing something (I think I must be). 

I'm having trouble with the score window in 7.5. It doesn't scroll across the bars. just sits there. Maybe they fixed that...?


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## FriFlo

I was hoping for multi touch control of the mixer on windows, but I spoke to a steinberg guy last musikmesse and he told me it would not happen, because they would never make platform dependent features. Instead, he said, I should wait for this upgrade and expect a suprise. Either that guy was just making fun of me or the "groundbreaking feature" he was talking about didn't make it for this release ... I mean, there are some good ideas here. VCA fader is certainly appreciated! But my hopes are not high, there will be anything real new or anywhere near as cool as touch control of the mixer, when I read that list ... Well, maybe Cubase 8.5


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## Guy Rowland

givemenoughrope @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> I've never understood using VCA's. Why not just buss everything to a group? Or maybe I'm missing something (I think I must be).



I must admit I've never felt the need for them in my music work, but I do use them with my dubbing hat on (I don't know how I'd have done some of that stuff without them). Obviously others do use them a lot in music though, I'd be curious to hear how folks them myself.


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## maestro2be

I am really excited to see this!


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## Guy Rowland

This link works for me now

http://www.i4-muzique.nl/steinberg-cuba ... tware.html

Here's some more fun fun fun google translations:

Steinberg Cubase Pro 8 

Cubase Pro 8 it all goes a step further. Behind a modified appearance shelter many latest features and software. Also, the audio engine has been totally renovated, and sounds clearer mer much more headroom.

Cubase 8 Pro goes beyond what cubase version therefore, better sound and better routing.

Some new features: Cubase Pro 8

Improved Windows handling

Cubase Pro 8 introduces a new way of handling screen, a new "workspace organizer" which allows for a more efficente workflow. Screens can be freely placed on any screen and optionally be maximized and minimized, they can get their own title. All your screens are now also visible in the taskbar cubase. A preview screen and mini icons. The "always on top's" organized kleienere plugin screens even when you are in maximum screen works great as if the mixing console screen.

VCA faders
In a similar mixers the VCA faders regulate the control of the gain, by making use of DC voltage. VCA faders in Cubase Pro 8 will not help you in creating complex mixes, they'll even be able to simplify advanced aitomatisering workflows by using the VCA automation feature: Merge the automation curve of a VCA fader with automation curve of a controlled fader of a fader group

Cubase Pro 8 exculsieve opportunities

Render in-place

The new render in-place Funcy = tion can quickly an effective audio and MIDI parts bouncing. You can indicate exactly what you want to include in the bounce

Asio Guard

ASIO Guard 2 employs low latencies right on the tracks where latency really matters, and increased latency in order to save performance for playback


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## muziksculp

Great new features, and improvements in Cubase Pro 8 ! 

Looking forward to upgrade from 7.5. 

Good times ahead for Cubasers


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## BubbaMc

Interested if there'll be hiDPI support for retina Macs or high res Windows setups.


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## trumpoz

Hmmmm - the bugs should be sorted out just as I will be looking to upgrade in a couple of months. 

Good times ahead.


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## Lawson.

And I just bit the bullet and switched to DP8...


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## José Herring

Guy Rowland @ Tue Dec 02 said:


> givemenoughrope @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never understood using VCA's. Why not just buss everything to a group? Or maybe I'm missing something (I think I must be).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must admit I've never felt the need for them in my music work, but I do use them with my dubbing hat on (I don't know how I'd have done some of that stuff without them). Obviously others do use them a lot in music though, I'd be curious to hear how folks them myself.
Click to expand...


Maybe I'm misunderstanding but consider this scenario. 

You have all your strings in one group, but you have each string section on it's own mixer channel and each mixer channel has a different reverb send amount.

Now if you just move the group fader you're not affecting each channel for your strings so it's still sending the same amount of signal to your reverb fx channel. So all of sudden your FX are too loud as the overall group is lowered.

Now to compensate for this, I've either lowered the fx which is not optimal because you may be using the same hall verb for your brass and all of sudden your brass fx are too little and you have to adjust the send of every instrument being sent to that fx. Or, I've gone back into each individual string channel and lowered the send amount.

Now with VCA faders, when I lower the group fader it lowers all the faders associated with that group proportionally. So that the signal being sent to the fx is lowered and you don't have to do any more adjustments.

That's the way I see it.


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## tokatila

Introducing Pro 8:


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## FriFlo

tokatila @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Introducing Pro 8:



Frühaufsteher!


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## Guy Rowland

Jose - ah yes, post fader sends, I do keep forgetting that benefit!

Well the best news from the video is right at the beginning - handling of larger projects claimed to be much improved. Proof in the pudding and all that, but that's a solid reason to upgrade on its own.

Frustrating light on detail for the VST instruments rack - so you can dock the massive great big thing, but can we make it less massive? Well not long to find out I guess.

Along with most of us I suspect, I'll will be watching the experiences of the early adopters like a hawk.


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## Guy Rowland

Oh, and my other big wish - that Cubase Essentials just be a tad less crippled with track counts. I really value a dongle-free Cubase on the laptop to get basic stuff down.


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## phil_wc

I youtube comment, Cubase told that free upgrade for the person who activate from 7.5 after Oct 15, and I activated on Oct 19. So close!


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## Guy Rowland

Kai from Steinberg just posted on the Cubase facebook group:

Update from Cubase 7.5 to Cubase Pro 8 = €99.99
Update from Cubase 7 to Cubase Pro 8 = €149.00

Good news IMO.


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## Przemek K.

Wow, that's great news for sure. From the video on youtube it seems that they also improved overall performance, faster loading/saving projects and so on.


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## DynamicK

Guy Rowland @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Kai from Steinberg just posted on the Cubase facebook group:
> Update from Cubase 7.5 to Cubase Pro 8 = €99.99
> Update from Cubase 7 to Cubase Pro 8 = €149.00
> Good news IMO.


Good Price..I have paid around £110 for the last few updates.


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## IFM

Even though I am mainly a Logic user now I have dabbled with Cubase over the years (started with Score 1.0 and ended with 7.5). If they can seriously do what Logic does with a hybrid buffer then they have a winner. That is any unarmed track runs at a much higher buffer (1028 in my case) than any live track. This is how I can cram such a massive amount of VI's together even when hosted on VEP.

Chris


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## Guillermo Navarrete

Hello,



Dragonwind @ 3rd December 2014 said:


> Even though I am mainly a Logic user now I have dabbled with Cubase over the years (started with Score 1.0 and ended with 7.5). If they can seriously do what Logic does with a hybrid buffer then they have a winner. That is any unarmed track runs at a much higher buffer (1028 in my case) than any live track. This is how I can cram such a massive amount of VI's together even when hosted on VEP.
> 
> Chris



There has been a lot done under the hood, you will witness a dramatic improvement on the performance, specially on the Mac  

Best regards,
GN


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## vicontrolu

Damn! I bought Cubase 7.5 last week (i just had to for some reasons) ..is there any chance that i get a free update?


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## Jonathan Moray

@vicontrolu

If Cubase is activated after Oct 15 you will be eligible to get the update for free. So yes; you will be able to get Cubase 8 for free.


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## Christof

Time for Apple to catch up with Logic!


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## Tatu

Christof @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Time for Apple to catch up with Logic!



What do they have to catch up to?


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## Christof

Mainly bugfixes.


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## muk

The midi tempo detection feature looks like a timesaver for me. If it really works, that is. Most often I don't play to a click. But adjusting the grid afterwards takes a lot of time and is tedious work. If that could be done automatically that would be worth the upgrade for me.


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## Guillermo Navarrete

Hello,



Jonathan Howe @ 3rd December 2014 said:


> Quick question:
> 
> I have Cubase 6.5 now. Would it be cheaper to wait and then upgrade to 8 immediately or is it smarter to get 7.5 now?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Really like the Render-in-place Function as well!



It really doesn't matter, with the grace period update you will receive the latest version available. 

Best regards,
GN


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## Ryan

This upgrade is a big shit hole!! 
Really.. I can't use my default DWM with C8? Serious, I hate to use the Aero themes. In fact, the Aero themes also uses a "tad" to much resources. That's why I have the classic theme!

sorry for being so harsh, but I only want to use the Windows Classic theme! This is a huge stepback for Steinberg and Cubase 8. 

A lot going on under the hood my ass! 

oh, did a mention that the bloody vst-instrument rack cant me removed? 
I'll stick to C7.5 until a lot of this has been changed! 

Best of luck!

Ryan


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## Jdiggity1

I'm with Ryan on this one.


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## Guillermo Navarrete

Hello, 



> oh, did a mention that the bloody vst-instrument rack cant me removed?
> I'll stick to C7.5 until a lot of this has been changed!



Wrong, It can be removed, you can hide it or activate it as it was with F11 and have it as a floating window as before. 

Best regards,
GN


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## Ryan

Ok. Why introduce something that already exists? So, we now have two different vst-racks. 

Anyway: it doesn't change the fact that I can't use a Windows classic theme.


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## Guillermo Navarrete

Hello, 



Ryan @ 3rd December 2014 said:


> Ok. Why introduce something that already exists? So, we now have two different vst-racks.



Yes and no, you can now have it docked to the project page, but it also shares a tab with the MediaBay, so you can have the MediaBay visible and fixed to the project page and also a second window with the VST Rack floating around. It just gives you more options, like the control Room on the Mixer that also shares the space with the loudness meter. 



> Anyway: it doesn't change the fact that I can't use a Windows classic theme.



To be able to use the scale windows option like on the Mac, Aereo has to be activated.
There was no other way on Windows. 

I feel what you say, I also rather have the classic widows view (IMO). 

Best regards,
GN


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## Daryl

Sorry to be so dense, but what does "scale windows option" mean?

D


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## shapeshifter00

I really like the window with the rack and mediabay. I have been waiting for media bay to be easy accessible from the side of the screen similar to FL Studio because that is what I started out with. For electronic music where I use a lot more audio samples this makes things easier for me. I like the update, wish there would be some more updates on the old VST effects and maybe add a couple of more bands to the EQ in the mixer so I can use that more often. Overall it seems pretty solid.


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## Lupez

Most of these new features have been on Logic for years now...


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## jonathanwright

Does anyone know if the 'render' feature works on multi instrument tracks, so that each one is treated as a separate rather than bouncing all of the instruments in the multi to an audio file?


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## G.R. Baumann

jonathanwright @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Does anyone know if the 'render' feature works on multi instrument tracks, so that each one is treated as a separate rather than bouncing all of the instruments in the multi to an audio file?



I would expect / hope both to be an option in deed.


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## jonathanwright

G.R. Baumann @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> jonathanwright @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the 'render' feature works on multi instrument tracks, so that each one is treated as a separate rather than bouncing all of the instruments in the multi to an audio file?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would expect / hope both to be an option in deed.
Click to expand...


I really hope so. I host the vast majority of my instrument in VEP, so being able to render those in place to mix rather than the mammoth amount of outputs and group tracks I have now would be amazing.


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## G.R. Baumann

It would seem to me that this is a Windows OS exclusive and not relevant to Mac, or am I wrong?



> Improved windows handling on PC, dockable rack and MediaBay plus a redesigned Track List



Hence I wonder how multiple monitors are handled in 8 on Yosemite. I currently test 7.5 on a laptop


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## jonathanwright

I could be wrong but I think the Mac already behaves in the same way. I have two monitors and they both work like that.


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## Guy Rowland

jonathanwright @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Does anyone know if the 'render' feature works on multi instrument tracks, so that each one is treated as a separate rather than bouncing all of the instruments in the multi to an audio file?



There's a video about the rendering here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIGJkgkQvWY&list=PLcZ1vtdmuI2MvOtVgWkZS7btgzeEEZUlw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIGJkgk ... tgzeEEZUlw) . Although it doesn't do a multi-timbral example, there are options when rendering to "bounce to one track" - one would hope that the implication is that without that checked, it will treat each part separately. That's how it works on different midi parts on one track anyway, that's demoed at about 50s.


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## tokatila

5 mins used and the following problems already under Win 8.1 64-bit:

1) 1st crash (wouldn't start, crashed when loading Vienna Ensemble), 2nd time started fine
2) Mixer font is so small (at inserts etc.) that I can hardly read it on portraitwise turned monitor
3) And the best one; I thought whole Cubase crashed when I tried to replace an instrument in Kontakt. The reason was that the Kontakt 5 dialog "Really Replace?" took control, but it didn't come on top and were buried under Kontakt interface! So I guess one must remember not to have Kontakt in the middle of screen when replacing instruments?

Hmm...


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## phil_wc

I'll upgrade it soon, but I want to see some early user review it first. Thanks tokatila.


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## TintoL

A question for steinberg guys about the "faster load times" and "lower latency" improvement:

If you are using VEP to load all your instruments. Will this improvement in cubase engine reflect also faster loading times when loading VEP instruments and channels in Cubase?, or is this only related to faster times loading VST intruments directly lodaded into cubase? 

Will this latency fixes make latency faster even if you are using VEP. I know VEP buffer size etc affect latency, but, will cubase improvement improve latency when comunicating with VEP?

I find cubase kind of slow compared to VEP performance. If this slow performance and latency is really a fact and noticable, I think it would be worth giving it a try.

Also, In PC the window handling improvement is for sure something good. People here are complaining a lot, but, compared to what is right now it is definitely better than loosing your windows and trying to find where they are inside of the master cubase window.


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## rpaillot

I can confirm that render in place works with multi timbral instruments as well as track instruments.
To be clear, if you select different instruments regions and you do a render in place, you get one new track for each of the regions selected.

You even have options to choose if you render with channel settings, complete signal path ( without master FX ) , complete signal path with master FX.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h1pprcojw0vud ... 9.png?dl=0

Probably the best addition to this Cubase 8.


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## woodsdenis

Guy Rowland @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> givemenoughrope @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never understood using VCA's. Why not just buss everything to a group? Or maybe I'm missing something (I think I must be).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must admit I've never felt the need for them in my music work, but I do use them with my dubbing hat on (I don't know how I'd have done some of that stuff without them). Obviously others do use them a lot in music though, I'd be curious to hear how folks them myself.
Click to expand...


A VCA group will increase or decrease all the faders assigned to it in a relative way rather then an absolute. Don't use Cubase but this seems pretty good, always steered away from it being a Mac guy.


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## jneebz

Lupez @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Most of these new features have been on Logic for years now...


Oh. Wow. Thanks for the tip...I'm going to uninstall that Cubase crap right now! :roll:


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## Daryl

Lupez @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Most of these new features have been on Logic for years now...


Possibly true, but then again Logic doesn't have many of the features that have been in Cubase for over a decade. :lol: 

D


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## germancomponist

Daryl @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Lupez @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of these new features have been on Logic for years now...
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly true, but then again Logic doesn't have many of the features that have been in Cubase for over a decade. :lol:
> 
> D
Click to expand...


o-[][]-o


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## G.R. Baumann

Guillermo Navarrete @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> There has been a lot done under the hood, you will witness a dramatic improvement on the performance, specially on the Mac
> 
> Best regards,
> GN



In that context it makes perfect sense that 7.5 is compatiblility scheduled for 02/2015 for Yosemite.

Congrats Folks!

I remember, it's quite some time ago in deed, that I had a few chats on the phone with Ed when the Mac performance and problems were well, let's say it just was not good enough. I did not like to leave Cubase to be honest.

I look foreward to check it out on my Mac's when available for test next year. 

Back then, I was already covinced that a substantial overhaul is really required. 

Can only get better from here!  

Best
G


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## Guy Rowland

Thanks to those early adopters posting here, very useful info. Some promising real world feedback here on ASIO loads - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 26&t=69659


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## NYC Composer

Guillermo Navarrete @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> Dragonwind @ 3rd December 2014 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even though I am mainly a Logic user now I have dabbled with Cubase over the years (started with Score 1.0 and ended with 7.5). If they can seriously do what Logic does with a hybrid buffer then they have a winner. That is any unarmed track runs at a much higher buffer (1028 in my case) than any live track. This is how I can cram such a massive amount of VI's together even when hosted on VEP.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There has been a lot done under the hood, you will witness a dramatic improvement on the performance, specially on the Mac
> 
> Best regards,
> GN
Click to expand...


Now THAT ALONE might finally induce me to switch from C6 if it proves out.


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## G.R. Baumann

rpaillot @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> I can confirm that render in place works with multi timbral instruments as well as track instruments.
> To be clear, if you select different instruments regions and you do a render in place, you get one new track for each of the regions selected.
> 
> You even have options to choose if you render with channel settings, complete signal path ( without master FX ) , complete signal path with master FX.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/h1pprcojw0vud ... 9.png?dl=0
> 
> Probably the best addition to this Cubase 8.



Finally.... cool :!:


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## Ryan

Guillermo Navarrete @ 3/12/2014 said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> Ryan @ 3rd December 2014 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. Why introduce something that already exists? So, we now have two different vst-racks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and no, you can now have it docked to the project page, but it also shares a tab with the MediaBay, so you can have the MediaBay visible and fixed to the project page and also a second window with the VST Rack floating around. It just gives you more options, like the control Room on the Mixer that also shares the space with the loudness meter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway: it doesn't change the fact that I can't use a Windows classic theme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be able to use the scale windows option like on the Mac, Aereo has to be activated.
> There was no other way on Windows.
> 
> I feel what you say, I also rather have the classic widows view (IMO).
> 
> Best regards,
> GN
Click to expand...


So, there is way to remove the vst-rack and the mediabay from the sequencer window?
You Write: you now can have it docked to the Project page. So, I could un-docked it?

Are you the guy who could bring on some user requests? If you can:

I would have paid double the price if I had the chance/option to select “scale window Cubase 8.exe” and “old school Cubase 8.exe”. I don’t see that as a really hard task/update. 
How about a Christmas gift/update before Christmas with an update like this? Would be a killer. I mean, it`s a music production system, not a video editing system. 

Right now I`m not going to use it  It kind of feels like someone stole/cut off some of my tools. Imagine it this way: If I was a carpenter and my hammer was my tool of choice. Suddenly someone cut off half of my hammers shaft. I couldn`t work as fast as I did = less income.

Best
Ryan


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## woodsdenis

G.R. Baumann @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Guillermo Navarrete @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There has been a lot done under the hood, you will witness a dramatic improvement on the performance, specially on the Mac
> 
> Best regards,
> GN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In that context it makes perfect sense that 7.5 is compatiblility scheduled for 02/2015 for Yosemite.
> 
> Congrats Folks!
> 
> I remember, it's quite some time ago in deed, that I had a few chats on the phone with Ed when the Mac performance and problems were well, let's say it just was not good enough. I did not like to leave Cubase to be honest.
> 
> I look foreward to check it out on my Mac's when available for test next year.
> 
> Back then, I was already covinced that a substantial overhaul is really required.
> 
> Can only get better from here!
> 
> Best
> G
Click to expand...


If that really is the case they have piqued my interest.


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## G.R. Baumann

That thing about a group of VCA's that can be selected and assigned to another VCA... hmmm... very useful in deed.

The force must be with them. :wink:


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## tokatila

tokatila @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> 5 mins used and the following problems already under Win 8.1 64-bit:
> 
> 1) 1st crash (wouldn't start, crashed when loading Vienna Ensemble), 2nd time started fine
> 2) Mixer font is so small (at inserts etc.) that I can hardly read it on portraitwise turned monitor
> 3) And the best one; I thought whole Cubase crashed when I tried to replace an instrument in Kontakt. The reason was that the Kontakt 5 dialog "Really Replace?" took control, but it didn't come on top and were buried under Kontakt interface! So I guess one must remember not to have Kontakt in the middle of screen when replacing instruments?
> 
> Hmm...



Ok, so after a little while of playing around I'm feeling much more positive. Not a single crash so far here. Problem 3 solved too, for some reason Kontakt had defaulted to "Always on top" -mode. Remember to check that

Look and feel is better than in 7.5. It's no small matter if you stare it for hours. I have a 2560x1440 so the VST instrument docking panel is perfect for me. 

Midi tempo detection is a nice feature, but doesn't feel very intuitive. I need to watch some tutorials first to see how this is supposed to work. 

However, plug-in manager is a heaven on earth for a GAS patient. I have too many plugins, which I regularly use only a small percentage (90/10 law or something) and finally I can make my favorite VSTs and it also allows to create a directory tree where I can have Reverb --> Valhalla , Reverb --> Lexicon etc. 

Now time to dive in to all the askvideo / Steinberg tutorials, but the plug-in manager and docking panel are the worth of the admission price alone. o[])


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## The Darris

I shall wait patiently for the upgrade path to appear on Sweetwater. :D


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## Walra48

Just did the upgrade from 7.5 to 8 on OS X Yosemite. Works great. Very stable. Love the new features.


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## NYC Composer

Walra48 @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Just did the upgrade from 7.5 to 8 on OS X Yosemite. Works great. Very stable. Love the new features.



Tell us everything!! What's the comparative CPU load??


----------



## tokatila

Can anyone check if their ValhallaRoom or Vintageverb preset browsers work. Mine don't with "Always on top" (and it's the default), turning that off (upper-right corner of the plugin window) solves the problem.


----------



## synthetic

Guy Rowland @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Some promising real world feedback here on ASIO loads - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 26&t=69659



That is so hot.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Ryan @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> So, there is way to remove the vst-rack and the mediabay from the sequencer window?
> You Write: you now can have it docked to the Project page. So, I could un-docked it?
> 
> Are you the guy who could bring on some user requests? If you can:
> 
> I would have paid double the price if I had the chance/option to select “scale window Cubase 8.exe” and “old school Cubase 8.exe”. I don’t see that as a really hard task/update.
> How about a Christmas gift/update before Christmas with an update like this? Would be a killer. I mean, it`s a music production system, not a video editing system.
> 
> Right now I`m not going to use it  It kind of feels like someone stole/cut off some of my tools. Imagine it this way: If I was a carpenter and my hammer was my tool of choice. Suddenly someone cut off half of my hammers shaft. I couldn`t work as fast as I did = less income.
> 
> Best
> Ryan



Ryan, I think you might currently be the world's grumpiest Cubase 8 owner. I've done some reading around, and I think your posts here are definitively the most negative. The general tone Out There seems to be almost universal happiness at the improved performance, cautious surprise at the lack of launch bugs, but disappointment at how slow the rendering is.

Removing the mediabay and vst rack - windows configuration, untick "racks".

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... e=54FDA909

I don't quite get your scale window thing. I see that the scaling windows needs Aero to be active in W7. I was on classic, but I switched today to see what happened. Answer - not a lot. I turned off transparency, fiddled with the colours a bit. Chrome's taskbar looks a little flatter, and you get those window previews as you hover over the status bar icons, about which I'm ambivolent. Don't think it has a significant performance implication these days, or does it? In short - I don't see any fire-raining-down-from-the-sky reason to not swtich Aero on, but as ever happy to be proved wrong.

Oh, one other thing I picked up from reading around - for multitimbral rendering to work, you need to have "include channel settings" set.


----------



## givemenoughrope

It would be very convenient for Cubase 8 to jive with VEP's audio input. Something about the changes in C7 meant that feature stop working. It means that I have to open stems in C6.5 to do big mixes. 

Bounce in place is nice. VCAs might be good (now that I'm starting to understand them) but unless they fix that audio input feature with VE Pro, I'm looking at mixing in Pro Tools.


----------



## kdm

Ryan @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Ok. Why introduce something that already exists? So, we now have two different vst-racks.
> 
> Anyway: it doesn't change the fact that I can't use a Windows classic theme.



The rack can be docked (upper left icon "Setup Window Layout"), and then that screen layout saved as a workspace. You can then undock it, and save that as a different workspace. Assign key commands and recall whatever layout you need. Or you can use the rack key command (F11 by default) and open it as a floating window.

Aero is more efficient than legacy Windows classic theme. You might see an improvement in graphics performance with Aero enabled. I've been running Aero for a couple of years now and would never go back.


----------



## Arksun

Ryan @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> This upgrade is a big shit hole!!
> Really.. I can't use my default DWM with C8? Serious, I hate to use the Aero themes. In fact, the Aero themes also uses a "tad" to much resources. That's why I have the classic theme!
> 
> sorry for being so harsh, but I only want to use the Windows Classic theme! This is a huge stepback for Steinberg and Cubase 8.
> 
> A lot going on under the hood my ass!
> 
> oh, did a mention that the bloody vst-instrument rack cant me removed?
> I'll stick to C7.5 until a lot of this has been changed!
> 
> Best of luck!
> 
> Ryan



I honestly don't understand the hate against Aero. For sure the basic default Aero theme doesn't look particularly great but its very easy to tweak and they way I have my Aero setup I think looks fantastic.

It takes the load off the cpu freeing it up, graphics are WAY more smooth and responsive, inc VU meters fft displays etc. It's a win win as far as I'm concerned.
There's even classic theme Aeros out there for the old look diehards.

Anyways, I'm definitely gonna be keeping an eye on reports of performance improvements as this would be my main reason for upgrading. As much as I really like the C7 mixer now, I was always a bit disappointed by the ASIO performance.
Some people are already reporting as low as a third ASIO usage as they had with C7.

I'm also curious to know whether they see a performance improvement even with ASIO Guard set to off. Also how the big sample libraries cope with this new ASIO Guard 2 setting.

Currently I have mine set to off in C7.5, I didn't notice any improvement with it on anyways.


----------



## Barrel Maker

I am also very interested to know what effect this update will have on VEP setups (if any), as well as the improved loading time of projects. Any brave guinea pigs care to chime in?


----------



## Whatisvalis

What's with the pricing Steinberg? Are we ever going to get a standard upgrade pricing path?

4 months ago I paid $250 to go from 6 to 7.5 and now it's $199 to go 6 to 8.


----------



## 5Lives

Looking forward to playing with the demo first - nice to see them focus on workflow, but how far have they gone in that direction? They really needed to stop adding cute features and focus on that. Hopefully they have. That combined with the performance gains could make Cubase unstoppable IMO.


----------



## SeanAG

The Darris @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> I shall wait patiently for the upgrade path to appear on Sweetwater. :D



It won't - upgrade editions are only available through the Steinberg online store. Educational upgrade editions only available on special order for schools doing lab installations, with an official purchase order from the school.


----------



## rgames

synthetic @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some promising real world feedback here on ASIO loads - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 26&t=69659
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is so hot.
Click to expand...

I'm optimistic but skeptical...

On most computers, latency is already well below what people can sense, so all you have to do is add a second buffer (other than the sound card buffer) and increase the size to the point that it significantly reduces the ASIO load. People will think they're still using the same overall latency that they had before because the sound card setting is the same (like VE Pro - the Cubase-reported latency doesn't include the VE Pro latency) and they can't sense the difference.

In essence, you're increasing the buffer/latency without letting the user know. I think that's what ASIO guard does, and I saw some info that they changed it. Maybe that's what's really going on... If so, that's pretty sneaky!

A good check would be to compare 7.5 vs 8.0 with ASIO guard turned off (assuming that's the only place where the second buffer is being used). If 8.0 is reducing ASIO usage just by increasing latency through ASIO guard then there's not actually any difference other than the psychology of convincing people to run at higher buffer settings.

I'll give it a shot in a couple weeks - the combo of upgrading my DAW, moving to 7.5.3 and adding PLAY 4 has really sent me back into crackle and pop territory. If 8.0 gets me back to where I was with 6.5 and PLAY 3 on my old DAW then I'll be a happier camper.

rgames


----------



## BubbaMc

Walra48 @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Just did the upgrade from 7.5 to 8 on OS X Yosemite. Works great. Very stable. Love the new features.



How does it look on a retina display? As good as Logic?


----------



## Guy Rowland

SeanAG @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> The Darris @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I shall wait patiently for the upgrade path to appear on Sweetwater. :D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It won't - upgrade editions are only available through the Steinberg online store
Click to expand...


Wasss this then?

http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and ... base-7/WKM


----------



## Neifion

I've been using Cubase Artist and now I'm finally considering joining the big boys with Cubase Pro. Does anyone know if my presets, templates, plugins, etc. will carry over if I upgrade?


----------



## ryanstrong

rgames @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> synthetic @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy Rowland @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some promising real world feedback here on ASIO loads - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 26&t=69659
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is so hot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm optimistic but skeptical...
> 
> On most computers, latency is already well below what people can sense, so all you have to do is add a second buffer (other than the sound card buffer) and increase the size to the point that it significantly reduces the ASIO load. People will think they're still using the same overall latency that they had before because the sound card setting is the same (like VE Pro - the Cubase-reported latency doesn't include the VE Pro latency) and they can't sense the difference.
> 
> In essence, you're increasing the buffer/latency without letting the user know. I think that's what ASIO guard does, and I saw some info that they changed it. Maybe that's what's really going on... If so, that's pretty sneaky!
> 
> A good check would be to compare 7.5 vs 8.0 with ASIO guard turned off (assuming that's the only place where the second buffer is being used). If 8.0 is reducing ASIO usage just by increasing latency through ASIO guard then there's not actually any difference other than the psychology of convincing people to run at higher buffer settings.
> 
> I'll give it a shot in a couple weeks - the combo of upgrading my DAW, moving to 7.5.3 and adding PLAY 4 has really sent me back into crackle and pop territory. If 8.0 gets me back to where I was with 6.5 and PLAY 3 on my old DAW then I'll be a happier camper.
> 
> rgames
Click to expand...


You have two slaves right? Wow and snaps and cracks? How many tracks deep is your template?


----------



## Guy Rowland

rgames @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> I'm optimistic but skeptical...
> 
> On most computers, latency is already well below what people can sense, so all you have to do is add a second buffer (other than the sound card buffer) and increase the size to the point that it significantly reduces the ASIO load. People will think they're still using the same overall latency that they had before because the sound card setting is the same (like VE Pro - the Cubase-reported latency doesn't include the VE Pro latency) and they can't sense the difference.
> 
> In essence, you're increasing the buffer/latency without letting the user know. I think that's what ASIO guard does, and I saw some info that they changed it. Maybe that's what's really going on... If so, that's pretty sneaky!
> 
> A good check would be to compare 7.5 vs 8.0 with ASIO guard turned off (assuming that's the only place where the second buffer is being used). If 8.0 is reducing ASIO usage just by increasing latency through ASIO guard then there's not actually any difference other than the psychology of convincing people to run at higher buffer settings.
> 
> I'll give it a shot in a couple weeks - the combo of upgrading my DAW, moving to 7.5.3 and adding PLAY 4 has really sent me back into crackle and pop territory. If 8.0 gets me back to where I was with 6.5 and PLAY 3 on my old DAW then I'll be a happier camper.
> 
> rgames



I think there are a few issues here. If load times are improved, that's obviously nothing to do with ASIO. Responsiveness - kinda subjective, but lots of people say it "feels" snapper. And as to the ASIO load - unless I'm misunderstanding you, you're misunderstanding how it works. My understanding is that it increases the latency of all the playback stuff (which will be the vast majority of your processing), but your live recording tracks are at a your lowest latency. That's the clever bit - it's not a placebo, it's giving you the lowest latencies where you'll ever need them, and pushing up the behind the scenes stuff to compensate. If it's a trick, then it's a good one. I'm all for tricks if they work in practice. If I can play and record with low buffers (256 perfectly fine for me) and yet get better performance, what's the problem?

(there's some discussion of the new ASIO guard and what it's up to here - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 26&t=69725 - sounds good to me).

I did read one post from someone today saying that Play was behaving in 8.0 and wasn't for them before, which is great news - I couldn't use Play 4.1.8 in Cubase 7.5 at all, even idle it was going nuts. EW said back in October they were working on a fix (Play 4 / Cubase 7 is a known horror), but if this update makes that unnecessary, hooray.


----------



## NYC Composer

The record buffer vs playback buffer is a Logic trick I've been wishing for in Cubase forever. I'm hoping this is it.


----------



## rgames

Guy Rowland @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> (there's some discussion of the new ASIO guard and what it's up to here - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 26&t=69725 - sounds good to me).


Interesting. I've never used ASIO guard and I don't fully understand what it does and does not do other than add latency via an additional buffer for playback tracks. I messed with it a while back and didn't see any effect. It seems like the idea is a good one but I can't help but wonder whether it can really work as advertised for something like VE Pro over a network connection. Or even for a streaming sampler. For those situations, my suspicion is it still just adds the same larger buffer it uses for the playback tracks, which is, of course, the same as simply increasing the soundcard buffer size.

The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. I'll definitely check it out again.

rgames


----------



## Guy Rowland

Yeah, eating that pudding is the thing, eh...

I know ASIO Guard in 7 was a very hit and miss affair, mostly miss. I never used it either, it seemed to often cause more problems than it solved. Clearly this is a major overhaul though, and the early reports are encouraging for sure.

I'm hopeful it would work with VE Pro in the same way it works with anything. If I'm getting the idea of how the tech does its thing, it's just going to be calling stuff in ahead of the playhead and buffering it - can't see it matters if that's local or via VE Pro. If the highest setting is 4096, that's still under .1 of a second from pressing the spacebar, which I'd imagine is perfectly snappy in practice. There will be a RAM hit, not sure how much - must depend on the complexity of the project.


----------



## Arksun

rgames @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> (there's some discussion of the new ASIO guard and what it's up to here - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 26&t=69725 - sounds good to me).
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. I've never used ASIO guard and I don't fully understand what it does and does not do other than add latency via an additional buffer for playback tracks. I messed with it a while back and didn't see any effect. It seems like the idea is a good one but I can't help but wonder whether it can really work as advertised for something like VE Pro over a network connection. Or even for a streaming sampler. For those situations, my suspicion is it still just adds the same larger buffer it uses for the playback tracks, which is, of course, the same as simply increasing the soundcard buffer size.
> 
> The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. I'll definitely check it out again.
> 
> rgames
Click to expand...


The whole point of ASIO guard is that you dont have to set your audio interface sample latency to a higher value. It allows you to keep a small latency for recording/having responsive midi keyboard playing triggering synths etc, but using a larger buffer for playback only.

So its not the same as just increasing your interface latency as that increases the latency for audio/midi recording as well.

As to whether it really makes a noticeable impact will depend on the persons overall system and types of plugs used. I didn't really notice much of an improvement with the ASIO Guard in Cubase 7.5 using an RME UFX, but it seems people are reporting significant improvements with ASIO Guard v2 in Cubase 8 so far.


----------



## rgames

Arksun @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> The whole point of ASIO guard is that you dont have to set your audio interface sample latency to a higher value. It allows you to keep a small latency for recording/having responsive midi keyboard playing triggering synths etc, but using a larger buffer for playback only.


Yeah - I get that. What I'm saying is that (my hunch is) it's really tricky to do that for every type of track. For a synth track - no problem. But for a VE Pro track connected via network - that's much trickier to deal with. Or even for a track connected to a streaming sampler, that could be really tricky. So my guess is that it works as advertised for some tracks but for others you just get an increased buffer like you would if you upped the buffer on your soundcard. And, again, since you can't tell the difference, you don't notice.

Further to the point, the difference in performance between Cubase 7.5 and 8.0 with ASIO guard on might simply be the result of a larger buffer used in ASIO Guard 2 (hinted at also in the link from Guy). Which, again, might just be increasing the total latency on non-synth tracks because it can't deal with them.

I don't know - just speculating. I hope it does, in fact, work as advertised. One more project to finish then I'll do the upgrade and see if it does anything for me...

rgames


----------



## rgames

Aha!

https://www.steinberg.net/en/support/kn ... and-nuendo

Down at the end it says that, indeed, ASIO guard does not work with all types of tracks, including those with real-time dependence. My strong suspicion is that VE Pro over network constitutes such a track because the network interface is a real-time interface.

Further it says that Cubase 8.0 ASIO guard works with disk streaming tracks but earlier versions do not.

So, as I suspected, for some tracks, the extra buffer is applied to the track as it would be if you just increased the soundcard buffer.

rgames


----------



## NYC Composer

rgames @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> Aha!
> 
> https://www.steinberg.net/en/support/kn ... and-nuendo
> 
> Down at the end it says that, indeed, ASIO guard does not work with all types of tracks, including those with real-time dependence. My strong suspicion is that VE Pro over network constitutes such a track because the network interface is a real-time interface.
> 
> Further it says that Cubase 8.0 ASIO guard works with disk streaming tracks but earlier versions do not.
> 
> So, as I suspected, for some tracks, the extra buffer is applied to the track as it would be if you just increased the soundcard buffer.
> 
> rgames



Richard, if I remember correctly you don't play notes in in realtime to compose, do you? 'cause...that's a major issue for me, per track live playing input latency.


----------



## jonathanwright

Barrel Maker @ Wed Dec 03 said:


> I am also very interested to know what effect this update will have on VEP setups (if any), as well as the improved loading time of projects. Any brave guinea pigs care to chime in?



Cubase 8 is installed and working great, VEP feels like it's connecting faster and the whole system is more responsive (Mac with Mavericks).

My only issue is figuring out Render when using VST instruments with multiple outputs such as VEP.

When rendering a midi track it appears an audio file is created for every output the VEP instance has, rather than just the output the midi track is using. My 'Brass' instance has 8 outputs, so I get 8 audio files created when I render one of the midi tracks using it. I'm using the 'Dry' settings.

It could just be me of course.


----------



## bobulusbillman

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Direct Outputs as far as I can tell. Being able to send a audio/Vst track to multiple outputs simultaneously is going to be a god send for exporting a set of stems/stereo mix all in one pass. This was previously much more complicated in previous versions of CB! =o


----------



## Guy Rowland

jonathanwright @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Barrel Maker @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am also very interested to know what effect this update will have on VEP setups (if any), as well as the improved loading time of projects. Any brave guinea pigs care to chime in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cubase 8 is installed and working great, VEP feels like it's connecting faster and the whole system is more responsive (Mac with Mavericks).
> 
> My only issue is figuring out Render when using VST instruments with multiple outputs such as VEP.
> 
> When rendering a midi track it appears an audio file is created for every output the VEP instance has, rather than just the output the midi track is using. My 'Brass' instance has 8 outputs, so I get 8 audio files created when I render one of the midi tracks using it. I'm using the 'Dry' settings.
> 
> It could just be me of course.
Click to expand...


It's not you, at the moment you can't use the dry settings to do this, it seems

https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support ... tions.html



> If you want to render single events from a multi-timbral VST instrument source using individually assigned outputs, make sure to enable the "Include Channel Settings" or "Mixdown to one Track" option in the "Render in-place" Setup window.



(this page is worth a scan for us all for the known early issues)

Encouraging news re VE Pro - could you do us a little A/B with Cubase 7 to see if your general ASIO performance is improved?

And Bob - yes, that extra routing option is VERY handy. You can do this already in PT, but I don't like its implementation much, you can't see at a glance where everything is going, you need to hover over the button. Much clearer with C8.


----------



## jonathanwright

Thanks Guy!

I'll do a quick performance check now.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

jonathanwright @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Barrel Maker @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am also very interested to know what effect this update will have on VEP setups (if any), as well as the improved loading time of projects. Any brave guinea pigs care to chime in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cubase 8 is installed and working great, VEP feels like it's connecting faster and the whole system is more responsive (Mac with Mavericks).
> 
> My only issue is figuring out Render when using VST instruments with multiple outputs such as VEP.
> 
> When rendering a midi track it appears an audio file is created for every output the VEP instance has, rather than just the output the midi track is using. My 'Brass' instance has 8 outputs, so I get 8 audio files created when I render one of the midi tracks using it. I'm using the 'Dry' settings.
> 
> It could just be me of course.
Click to expand...


Found this in the knowledge base:



> If you want to render single events from a multi-timbral VST instrument source using individually assigned outputs, make sure to enable the "Include Channel Settings" or "Mixdown to one Track" option in the "Render in-place" Setup window.



https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/sup...version-history-and-issues-and-solutions.html


----------



## G.R. Baumann

OPs, Guy already got it. :lol:


----------



## jonathanwright

Okay, I just opened up the same huge VEP project in Cubase 7 then Cubase 8.

In Cubase 8 the performance meter increased by around 10-15%, but in actual use appears to be performing better than in 7.5.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Btw. be careful with opening the same project again after closing it. There appears to be an issue that sucks large amounts of memory if you do that. The only workaround is to open another project first, a dummy of some sorts is enough.


----------



## jonathanwright

A quick update for VEP users (this might apply to other Multis but not sure).

You need to select 'Complete Signal Path', not 'Channel Settings' in the Render setup dialogue.

The 'Mixdown to one track' checkbox is greyed out for me.


----------



## Guillermo Navarrete

Hello all, 

Regrading some of your oder questions: 



tokatila @ 3rd December 2014 said:


> 5 mins used and the following problems already under Win 8.1 64-bit:
> 
> 1) 1st crash (wouldn't start, crashed when loading Vienna Ensemble), 2nd time started fine
> 2) Mixer font is so small (at inserts etc.) that I can hardly read it on portraitwise turned monitor
> 
> 3) And the best one; I thought whole Cubase crashed when I tried to replace an instrument in Kontakt. The reason was that the Kontakt 5 dialog "Really Replace?" took control, but it didn't come on top and were buried under Kontakt interface! So I guess one must remember not to have Kontakt in the middle of screen when replacing instruments?
> 
> Hmm...



2. Most of our customers where complaining that the font was too big and could not fit the whole name of the track so we brought it back to the font size of Cubase 6.5 

3. We are aware of this one, the pop-up windows for Kontakt get hidden behind the main instrument GUI, the developers are already working on a fix for this and should be release any time soon.



TintoL @ 3rd December 2014 said:


> A question for steinberg guys about the "faster load times" and "lower latency" improvement:
> 
> If you are using VEP to load all your instruments. Will this improvement in cubase engine reflect also faster loading times when loading VEP instruments and channels in Cubase?, or is this only related to faster times loading VST intruments directly lodaded into cubase?
> 
> Will this latency fixes make latency faster even if you are using VEP. I know VEP buffer size etc affect latency, but, will cubase improvement improve latency when comunicating with VEP?
> 
> I find cubase kind of slow compared to VEP performance. If this slow performance and latency is really a fact and noticable, I think it would be worth giving it a try.
> 
> Also, In PC the window handling improvement is for sure something good. People here are complaining a lot, but, compared to what is right now it is definitely better than loosing your windows and trying to find where they are inside of the master cubase window.



Yes, loading times have been reduce as long as you load the instruments inside of Cubase. 



jonathanwright @ 3rd December 2014 said:


> I could be wrong but I think the Mac already behaves in the same way. I have two monitors and they both work like that.



You are correct, this was a PC issue only, on the Mac it was already that way. What has been improved for both versions is that now plug-ins do not hide behind the Mixer window when maximised. 



maestro2be @ 4th December 2014 said:


> eidrahmusic @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was planning on getting 7.5 in the upcoming weeks. I've got a copy of Studio 4 from ages ago and was planning on upgrading from that.
> 
> I see that Pro 8 doesn't have an upgrade path from Studio 4 anymore. Is it just one version too old now, or is it included in one of the other upgrade prices?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't work for Steinberg but to me it seems you would be fine. If you can buy 7.5 right now as an upgrade, you will be in the window of grace period.
> 
> Confirm with them first but that seems doable to me.
Click to expand...


There isn't an update from Cubase Studio 4, but as mentioned you can purchase an upgrade to Cubase 7.5 and you will receive a free upgrade to Cubase Pro 8 through the grace period upgrade. 



maestro2be @ 4th December 2014 said:


> I have one question about this update. Can it now connect hardware that you accidentally had off when launching a project?
> 
> That would be a great retard moment feature that I love about Studio One when I forget to turn everything on.



Not on the PC it only works that way on the Mac.

Best regards,
GN


----------



## Guy Rowland

jonathanwright @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Okay, I just opened up the same huge VEP project in Cubase 7 then Cubase 8.
> 
> In Cubase 8 the performance meter increased by around 10-15%, but in actual use appears to be performing better than in 7.5.



Thanks for checking, Jonathan - that's seems a bit counterintuitive? Wonder what's going on. How do you notice the better performance?


----------



## FriFlo

Guillermo: The update seems really good, as I like the new VCA Faders and the Tempo from Midi track seems to work pretty well, if it is not to complcated stuff.
However, I really expected multitouch support at some time, when the new mixer arrived v7. It just looks like it!  When 7.5 came, I thought it would maybe take a little more time. Some of your colleagues told me at Musikmess 2014, this would not be done, unless Apple would offer PCs with multitouch. Is that true? I mean, I get that you guys cannot ignore users of Mac OS. But why not make a feature available for Windows only, if Apple simply refuses to offer it? And frankly, there are some 3rd Party developers of multi touch drivers for Mac OS X as well. This feature would be quite revolutionary and probably attract more users to cubase, that's why I simply don't get, why you won't implement it. Cannot be that hard, can it?


----------



## jonathanwright

Guy Rowland @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> jonathanwright @ Thu Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I just opened up the same huge VEP project in Cubase 7 then Cubase 8.
> 
> In Cubase 8 the performance meter increased by around 10-15%, but in actual use appears to be performing better than in 7.5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for checking, Jonathan - that's seems a bit counterintuitive? Wonder what's going on. How do you notice the better performance?
Click to expand...


I know, it does seem odd doesn't it!

I can only describe it as being noticeably more responsive when performing tasks like opening windows and using key commands.

Performance wise I unfroze a couple of tracks in my project that caused 7.5 to choke and 8 seemed to cope with them better, despite the meter saying otherwise.

On the whole I'm pretty impressed. I'm currently testing out rendering all of my midi tracks to audio at the same time, apparently it's going to take 35 minutes!

If it works out it could potentially be a big workflow changer when using VEP.


----------



## livefreela

i can also confirm my templates improvement at a cursory glance - i was only able to spend a short while on the desk, but the spitfire stuff that was giving 7.5 fits ran without a hiccup and i was able to reduce the latency.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Thanks Jonathan. Well, in the end the only thing that matters is how it performs, eh, and if that's good then hooray.

I'll probably update over the weekend - and of course thing is if you do run into any problems then of course you just fire up 7.5.


----------



## Guillermo Navarrete

Hello, 



FriFlo @ 4th December 2014 said:


> Guillermo: The update seems really good, as I like the new VCA Faders and the Tempo from Midi track seems to work pretty well, if it is not to complcated stuff.
> However, I really expected multitouch support at some time, when the new mixer arrived v7. It just looks like it!  When 7.5 came, I thought it would maybe take a little more time. Some of your colleagues told me at Musikmess 2014, this would not be done, unless Apple would offer PCs with multitouch. Is that true? I mean, I get that you guys cannot ignore users of Mac OS. But why not make a feature available for Windows only, if Apple simply refuses to offer it? And frankly, there are some 3rd Party developers of multi touch drivers for Mac OS X as well. This feature would be quite revolutionary and probably attract more users to cubase, that's why I simply don't get, why you won't implement it. Cannot be that hard, can it?



I really don't know, it actually might be harder than it looks like (I am just guessing hear). But I will pass it to our product planning department. 

Best regards,
GN


----------



## davinwv

Guillermo:

Does Cubase 8 Artist have the audio file tempo detection function, or is that feature only in Cubase 8 Pro?

Thanks,
Davin


----------



## tboston007

Hey Everyone, thanks for the updates on C8! I am looking forward to updating shortly. 

Question for VEP users. Does this new render feature allow you to render all your VEP tracks to cubase audio tracks so you can apply effects etc in cubase? 

I am still learning how to best utilize VEP and cubase and any tips are greatly appreciated. In the past I have mixed the VEP tracks just as midi tracks. Are there other ways people are mixing VEP tracks, ie. bouncing them to audio etc.?
Thanks!
Todd


----------



## jonathanwright

tboston007 @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Hey Everyone, thanks for the updates on C8! I am looking forward to updating shortly.
> 
> Question for VEP users. Does this new render feature allow you to render all your VEP tracks to cubase audio tracks so you can apply effects etc in cubase?
> 
> I am still learning how to best utilize VEP and cubase and any tips are greatly appreciated. In the past I have mixed the VEP tracks just as midi tracks. Are there other ways people are mixing VEP tracks, ie. bouncing them to audio etc.?
> Thanks!
> Todd



Yes you can bounce your VEP midi tracks. Although there is a bug discussed earlier in this thread regarding outputs.

The best method is the one that suits your workflow really. If you always bounce down to mix then this is a great addition.

Brilliant for archiving too.


----------



## ChristopherDoucet

I'm very excited to check out the new features!

does anyone know if Steinberg added the ability to globally toggle time base for MIDI tracks?

This has been my biggest request for years. Sometimes when I have a very large project and I want to toggle timebase, I have to go through one at a time for sometimes 50-60 tracks.

Hoping this was fixed in Pro 8.


----------



## Ryan

So, been working on Cubase 8 now this whole day. 
I removed the VST-rack/mediabay. Goodie! :twisted: 

I have not noticed any huge improvements so far. It seems to be the same as Cubase 7.52. In fact, I feel it could be tad slower then the C7. Especially when I'm doing a lot of stuff fast with mouse and keyboard at the same time (changing values, curves etc).
I know I sound like, and I quote Guy Rowland (no hard feelings)


> "world's grumpiest Cubase 8 owner"


, but I think that the slowness comes from the Aero theme. That's just my 2cents! 

ASIO performance improvements = nhaa, maybe? could be psychological because we think it is faster because a guy on youtube said so? I have not noticed any paradigm shift.

I'm running VEP5, Spitfire Audio only template. Maybe it would be better if I load the same template within Cubase 8? Because now VEP5 is basically it's own motor/instance outside of Cubase 8. 

Anyone here tried that?

Also: I have learned to test products more before I post my opinions from now on. sry for that! 

Best
Ryan


----------



## jiten

I run a VEP template as well and the performance gains are not imagined here. 

Previously loading and running my template would cause the red overload light to go off fairly frequently and I would get intermittent crackles. Now I don't get these issues at all.

Perhaps this is obvious or has already been stated, but I think the performance gains come from ASIO Guard 2 mainly. My understanding of how this works is that it keeps the track that's currently selected (i.e. currently armed) live, but the rest are pre-processed with some added latency, probably there is a lag that's largely unnoticeable when you first hit record or play. This makes sense to me because the computer theoretically knows what the MIDI data / VSTi / etc. are for the tracks that aren't armed so there is no reason why it shouldn't be able to "look ahead." By contrast since you're playing in the armed / live track, it's not possible to process ahead obviously.

The caveat here is that if you have a VSTi that is multitimbral then that ENTIRE instance is brought online/live when ANY one track in that group is selected/armed. So if you are running your template in just one VEP frame that's probably why you're not seeing much improvement, because as soon as you arm any track in your template, the benefit of ASIO Guard is gone. 

So, it seems to me that the best way to capture the performance gains is to use more instances/frames since only one of these instances will be live at any given moment depending on which track you have armed. I have ~8-10 frames and I definitely noticed a performance improvement.

Would be interesting if someone tested what the sweet spot here is (I think a separate thread was already started to this effect).


----------



## Jonathan Moray

Ryan, I still think you're a bit fast to pass judgment on this. If you post something based on a first impressions kind of deal, you should clearly state that. You coulden't have used the program for more than a day, I think that counts as a first impression. But the way you describe it now, it sounds like you already know everything about the program and that you're saying the update is worthless, or even worse than 7.
I think you should play with Cubase 8 for at least a week before you make up your mind/complain about it. So please don't come the day the program is released and complain about it just because the fact that you don't know how to use it yet, or what is's capable of. Theses kind of posts can really hurt a company that produces complex products. Luckily Steinberg is big enough that these posts will most likely not phase them too much. But if they were a smaller company these judgmental posts could really hurt a company. If you have a problem with the program at it's release you should send a mail to support to see if they know about it. Because it might be a bug, but it might also be feature that you're not very found of. And if's a feature and they say that there's now way they're going to fix that - *then* you can complain about it.

Also about the performance it might be more noticeable for some than it is for others. But if you saw the post a few posts back you will see that it's not psychological for most.
Here's the link: http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 26&t=69659

I don't know if you're a sensitive person, but this is clearly my opinion so don't take it too seriously.


----------



## rgames

jiten @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Perhaps this is obvious or has already been stated, but I think the performance gains come from ASIO Guard 2 mainly. My understanding of how this works is that it keeps the track that's currently selected (i.e. currently armed) live


I was looking in to this yesterday - what you are saying is correct only if the track you select is compatible with ASIO guard. Not all VSTs work with ASIO guard.

For those VSTs that do not work with ASIO guard, it just raises the buffer on the armed track as it does on the playback tracks. That's the equivalent of just increasing the soundcard buffer.

So, the question is: which VSTs work with ASIO guard?

Of course, if you can't sense the latency difference, it doesn't matter if you never find out.

rgames


----------



## jiten

rgames @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> jiten @ Thu Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps this is obvious or has already been stated, but I think the performance gains come from ASIO Guard 2 mainly. My understanding of how this works is that it keeps the track that's currently selected (i.e. currently armed) live
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking in to this yesterday - what you are saying is correct only if the track you select is compatible with ASIO guard. Not all VSTs work with ASIO guard.
> 
> For those VSTs that do not work with ASIO guard, it just raises the buffer on the armed track as it does on the playback tracks. That's the equivalent of just increasing the soundcard buffer.
> 
> So, the question is: which VSTs work with ASIO guard?
> 
> Of course, if you can't sense the latency difference, it doesn't matter if you never find out.
> 
> rgames
Click to expand...


My guess would be that any VSTi or setup where Cubase can't look ahead and process ahead for whatever reason (e.g. live armed tracks, external FX, etc.) would be the ones that aren't compatible. I suspect VEP does work with ASIO Guard though because of how it performs at least on my system.

For example, I have all of HS Gold loaded in one VEP frame (on a slave). When no track is armed from this instance of VEP in Cubase, the real-time ASIO meter is very low. As soon as I select/arm any of the string tracks in my template there is a definite jump in the real-time meter that shows increased real-time ASIO load, presumably because the entire HS Gold VEP instance is switched into real-time processing using my low-latency buffer settings. When I click off of it then it returns back to its low state.

If Cubase were introducing additional latency to compensate in the real-time case, I wouldn't expect to see that real-time ASIO meter jump so drastically. In other words, I'm inclined to think there is not additional latency being introduced ever in the live tracks. Additional latency is only introduced in tracks that aren't armed and that can be forward-processed. If you don't have any such VSTi or your setup doesn't support doing that for any of your tracks, then you probably just won't notice a performance gain at all (i.e. it'll all just stress the real-time ASIO load as it had before).

Not sure if my thought process here is flawed...


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

Two huge white noise bursts while working with C8 today.
I guess it will sit on the side for now, until there is an update that fixes this... :evil: 
Performance looked improved though, so looking forward to be able to use it.


----------



## rgames

jiten @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> For example, I have all of HS Gold loaded in one VEP frame (on a slave). When no track is armed from this instance of VEP in Cubase, the real-time ASIO meter is very low. As soon as I select/arm any of the string tracks in my template there is a definite jump in the real-time meter that shows increased real-time ASIO load, presumably because the entire HS Gold VEP instance is switched into real-time processing using my low-latency buffer settings. When I click off of it then it returns back to its low state.


That makes sense.

Are you running the audio over the network?


----------



## jiten

rgames @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> jiten @ Thu Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example, I have all of HS Gold loaded in one VEP frame (on a slave). When no track is armed from this instance of VEP in Cubase, the real-time ASIO meter is very low. As soon as I select/arm any of the string tracks in my template there is a definite jump in the real-time meter that shows increased real-time ASIO load, presumably because the entire HS Gold VEP instance is switched into real-time processing using my low-latency buffer settings. When I click off of it then it returns back to its low state.
> 
> 
> 
> That makes sense.
> 
> Are you running the audio over the network?
Click to expand...


Yes, in that particular HS Gold VEP instance, just 5 stereo audio outs hooked into Cubase. But over all 9-10 VEP frames on the slave I have 90+ stereo audio tracks running back into Cubase.

Also wanted to add that load times have improved for me. I remember it taking almost 1.5 mins or so to load the template and it's now more like 40-50 seconds.


----------



## rgames

jiten @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> rgames @ Thu Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jiten @ Thu Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you running the audio over the network?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, in that particular HS Gold VEP instance, just 5 stereo audio outs hooked into Cubase. But over all 9-10 VEP frames on the slave I have 90+ stereo audio tracks running back into Cubase.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Well that's promising...! I'll definitely check it out in a couple weeks.

Thanks for the info,

rgames


----------



## NYC Composer

rgames @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> jiten @ Thu Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rgames @ Thu Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jiten @ Thu Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you running the audio over the network?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, in that particular HS Gold VEP instance, just 5 stereo audio outs hooked into Cubase. But over all 9-10 VEP frames on the slave I have 90+ stereo audio tracks running back into Cubase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well that's promising...! I'll definitely check it out in a couple weeks.
> 
> Thanks for the info,
> 
> rgames
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Richard, did you see my question?


----------



## synthetic

Testing tonight. ASIO load seems like a big change. I guess I can put off that Mac Pro upgrade for a while longer. 

Autoload:






Bigger project:





How do I get the directory view for the loop browser? I have them sorted on my machine so that I can navigate to what I want, but I don't see a file system anymore.


----------



## shapeshifter00

When I opened up Cubase 8 after I installed it in the same folder all of my templates are not listed anymore. I can open up old projects and resave, but does anyone know the folder I can find them in or they got deleted with the update? So far I like it a lot. I feel it is faster especially when closing Cubase. I like the rack on the side but wish I could make it smaller. I also struggle to choose a folder from media bay like before.


----------



## Ryan

Jonathan Moray @ 4/12/2014 said:


> Ryan, I still think you're a bit fast to pass judgment on this. If you post something based on a first impressions kind of deal, you should clearly state that. You coulden't have used the program for more than a day, I think that counts as a first impression. But the way you describe it now, it sounds like you already know everything about the program and that you're saying the update is worthless, or even worse than 7.
> I think you should play with Cubase 8 for at least a week before you make up your mind/complain about it. So please don't come the day the program is released and complain about it just because the fact that you don't know how to use it yet, or what is's capable of. Theses kind of posts can really hurt a company that produces complex products. Luckily Steinberg is big enough that these posts will most likely not phase them too much. But if they were a smaller company these judgmental posts could really hurt a company. If you have a problem with the program at it's release you should send a mail to support to see if they know about it. Because it might be a bug, but it might also be feature that you're not very found of. And if's a feature and they say that there's now way they're going to fix that - *then* you can complain about it.
> 
> Also about the performance it might be more noticeable for some than it is for others. But if you saw the post a few posts back you will see that it's not psychological for most.
> Here's the link: http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 26&t=69659
> 
> I don't know if you're a sensitive person, but this is clearly my opinion so don't take it too seriously.



First off, I did not write anything that describes cubase as worthless. What I did write is what my first impressions are. I’m a guy that talks from the liver without to many filters on. When I have my daily routine with Cubase, 5-7 hours a day. I seem to notice the small changes, and if I so do notice a small change in the way I work, I tend to say that. This time I noticed that “something” did what I use to do very fast before a bit slower. Again, I think it is the Aero theme. I know Cubase very good, thank you. I know where to look for advantages etc. 

With the ASIO: I should have wrote that I have not tested the ASIO guard. I wanted to see a performance change before I do stuff “under the hood”. Often the big changes lies in the “core code-base”. As for now, yes. Maybe there is something going on under the hood, but my subjective observations have not proved this yet. What I say could and should not hurt a big company. I love what Steinberg do, but if I remember, I was also the one that got all fuzzed up when they introduced the new VST-rack in C7. I thought at that time it was way too big, and I still think it`s way too big. 

No, I’m not a sensitive person. You have your opinion, I have mine! That’s the beauty of mankind. 
Have a nice day!  

Best
Ryan


----------



## gaz

jonathanwright @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Yes you can bounce your VEP midi tracks. Although there is a bug discussed earlier in this thread regarding outputs.



I'm not sure if this is really a bug or just "as designed". For example, a single midi track could control many patches in a Kontakt instance, with each routed to different audio output. How would Cubase automatically be able to know this? It's a downer for me, as my VEP instances have around 100 audio outputs each. It looks like I will need to rethink my VEP setup to mix inside there and send less audio.


----------



## jonathanwright

gaz @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> jonathanwright @ Thu Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes you can bounce your VEP midi tracks. Although there is a bug discussed earlier in this thread regarding outputs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if this is really a bug or just "as designed". For example, a single midi track could control many patches in a Kontakt instance, with each routed to different audio output. How would Cubase automatically be able to know this? It's a downer for me, as my VEP instances have around 100 audio outputs each. It looks like I will need to rethink my VEP setup to mix inside there and send less audio.
Click to expand...


I think they think it's a bug, as it's on their bug list.

:D


----------



## Guy Rowland

I got too impatient. Skived for an hour to try out C8. I'll put it through its paces properly at the weekend, but here's the first impressions. (Win 7 64 bit)

Windows confusing initially, but didn't take long to get the setups I need and save them as defaults. The menu bar at the top will take some getting used to, very Mac-ish, but nothing too untoward. Not keen on the track font, and I'm pretty sure it means less tracks on a page on minimum - that's a fairly big deal, and if that proves to be the case I'll be lobbying hard for a return to the previous narrow height. Really important for big templates, and part of the reason I switched to Cubase in the first place.

Load times - a non-VE pro project was about 10s faster at 45s. One with the full template was the same time to load, whereas that was nearer 1m 15s on C7.5, so a bigger saving for the much higher track count seemingly.

Performance - gulp. Kinda unbelievable. I ran the full template at at my regular 256 buffer and got great results, so for fun I switched to a 48 buffer (4.5 ms rount trip latency) and asioguard to max. Average load about 50% and pretty static, real time peaks at about 20%. The whole feel of it, as others have reported, is very snappy.

I'm sure it'll be a couple of months til the early kinks are ironed out, but the only serious one so far is that narrow track height issue (oh, and still want a better collapsed VST rack). But for performance - gobsmacking. In terms of CPU-hungry VST instruments and plugins, this is fantastic news.

OK, back to work on ruddy pro tools...


----------



## Resoded

This is probably a stupid question, but Steinberg support isn't getting back to me, so maybe someone here knows:

If I install the Cubase 8 upgrade from 7.5, can I still use 7.5 as if nothing happened?


----------



## tokatila

Resoded @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> This is probably a stupid question, but Steinberg support isn't getting back to me, so maybe someone here knows:
> 
> If I install the Cubase 8 upgrade from 7.5, can I still use 7.5 as if nothing happened?



Yes


----------



## Resoded

tokatila @ 5th December 2014 said:


> Resoded @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is probably a stupid question, but Steinberg support isn't getting back to me, so maybe someone here knows:
> 
> If I install the Cubase 8 upgrade from 7.5, can I still use 7.5 as if nothing happened?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes
Click to expand...


Excellent, thanks tokatila!


----------



## rgames

NYC Composer @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> rgames @ Wed Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aha!
> 
> https://www.steinberg.net/en/support/kn ... and-nuendo
> 
> Down at the end it says that, indeed, ASIO guard does not work with all types of tracks, including those with real-time dependence. My strong suspicion is that VE Pro over network constitutes such a track because the network interface is a real-time interface.
> 
> Further it says that Cubase 8.0 ASIO guard works with disk streaming tracks but earlier versions do not.
> 
> So, as I suspected, for some tracks, the extra buffer is applied to the track as it would be if you just increased the soundcard buffer.
> 
> rgames
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard, if I remember correctly you don't play notes in in realtime to compose, do you? 'cause...that's a major issue for me, per track live playing input latency.
Click to expand...

Hey Larry - sorry I missed that one.

You are correct - I mostly compose on piano and/or strings then copy/paste to other instruments. In that situation, ASIO guard probably works really well but I've never had much luck with it. I tried it again (on 7.5) after reading this thread and it's causing more problems than it solves. 8.0 might be better and I'll give it a shot there in a couple weeks.

Cheers,

rgames


----------



## jiten

rgames @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> Hey Larry - sorry I missed that one.
> 
> You are correct - I mostly compose on piano and/or strings then copy/paste to other instruments. In that situation, ASIO guard probably works really well but I've never had much luck with it. I tried it again (on 7.5) after reading this thread and it's causing more problems than it solves. 8.0 might be better and I'll give it a shot there in a couple weeks.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> rgames



The ASIO guard implementation in C7/7.5 doesn't work with any multitimbral VSTi or any VSTi that use disk streaming. This was a severe limitation that excluded pretty much any VSTi any of us would use (i.e. sample-based libraries) from ASIO guard benefit. 

C8's implementation has solved this and now works with these instruments, so that may explain why there isn't much of a difference in C7.5. I also found enabling ASIO Guard in C7.5 made things worse or didn't have any effect at all, so I just left it completely disabled. C8's ASIO Guard 2 seems to work much better.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Guy Rowland @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> Not keen on the track font, and I'm pretty sure it means less tracks on a page on minimum - that's a fairly big deal, and if that proves to be the case I'll be lobbying hard for a return to the previous narrow height. Really important for big templates, and part of the reason I switched to Cubase in the first place.



More playing around...

Happy to report that I was wrong on the above. I just did a side-by-side, and there's about 1/40th difference in track height on the narrowest view - it's just an optical illusion caused by the ugly font. That font sets off my OCD - the bottom of "g"s get cut off. Yuk.

Quite fun to play around with the real estate in the new windows. Ended up with more useful stuff on screen at any one time, I think. Mixer seems clearer - I positively like it (I'm not using any of the inbuilt strip stuff, mind). Admittedly still based on little intensive work, it seems very snappy, responsive and slick all round - a very impressive 0.0 release I'd say.


----------



## passport

has anyone had any problems loading NI stuff with Cubase 8 on a win7 pc? Kontakt is taking ages to load - like well over 10 mins for 5 instances of Kontakt (used to take 30 secs on 7.5).


----------



## Pzy-Clone

Oh my..., look what happened 
Cannot seem to notice any difference in latencies or whatnot..., when leaving tracks unnarmed it reduced the Asio impact by a rather generous amount ...i would say.

Does Asio guard 2 work ...whatever it does? Seems like it does indeed.
Nifty.


----------



## Stephen Baysted

Very brief play just now and here on my Mid 2010 8 core mac pro, I'm immediately noticing a huge difference in performance: a Kontakt Spitfire Strings combo patch that always struggles to play ball on anything other than an SSD is now running smoothly from an internal 7200 HD at 256 buffer (normally I run a much much higher buffer than that). 

Generally, the whole thing seems much snappier; tempo detection from a few experiments works pretty damn well and will be a great feature for my workflow. 

I'll see what gives with my templates on the morrow, but it's looking good so far.


----------



## synthetic

> all of my templates are not listed anymore



My 7.5 templates showed up in 8. But if they don't, you could move them from the old preferences folder to the new one. Old is: 

~/Library/Preferences/Cubase 7.5/Project Templates

New is: you'll figure it out. 



> it's just an optical illusion caused by the ugly font. That font sets off my OCD - the bottom of "g"s get cut off. Yuk.



I agree, the new arrange view font is tragic.


----------



## blizzard

Guy Rowland @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> Performance - gulp. Kinda unbelievable. I ran the full template at at my regular 256 buffer and got great results, so for fun I switched to a 48 buffer (4.5 ms rount trip latency) and asioguard to max. Average load about 50% and pretty static, real time peaks at about 20%. The whole feel of it, as others have reported, is very snappy.



Hey Guy - I'm curious, was this noticeable performance gain with a session hosting all your VSTi's in Cubase or in VEPro? I'm still trying to establish if the performance gains are as significant for VEPro templates as well...

Cheers,
Andrew


----------



## samphony

ChristopherDoucet @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> I'm very excited to check out the new features!
> 
> does anyone know if Steinberg added the ability to globally toggle time base for MIDI tracks?
> 
> This has been my biggest request for years. Sometimes when I have a very large project and I want to toggle timebase, I have to go through one at a time for sometimes 50-60 tracks.
> 
> Hoping this was fixed in Pro 8.



I would like to know that as well.


----------



## Guy Rowland

blizzard @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Performance - gulp. Kinda unbelievable. I ran the full template at at my regular 256 buffer and got great results, so for fun I switched to a 48 buffer (4.5 ms rount trip latency) and asioguard to max. Average load about 50% and pretty static, real time peaks at about 20%. The whole feel of it, as others have reported, is very snappy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Guy - I'm curious, was this noticeable performance gain with a session hosting all your VSTi's in Cubase or in VEPro? I'm still trying to establish if the performance gains are as significant for VEPro templates as well...
> 
> Cheers,
> Andrew
Click to expand...


Ah, now funny you should ask. Delving into it a bit slower and Houston - there is a problem.

The way asioguard works is that rather than having low latency on every single thing in your project, it just reserves it for whatever is actually active. At least, that's the theory. The issue is no longer just how much is going on, the issue is also what track you're actually working with right now, and how much you're switching between tracks. My meters are as advertised here all the while I'm sat on an audio track. Click on an Omnisphere track though and start playing like a madman, and both real time and average meters start to climb, sometimes quite alarmingly. That's true in a moderately busy non-VE Pro session, anyway.

For VE Pro projects, things go a little weird. I don't get that CPU climb when playing an active track in the same way - that's the good news. However, there's a little nightmare that's just popped its ugly head up. When you switch your active track from one VE Pro instance to another, there's a really horrible silent delay. On the entire output - if you're playing back, the whole thing just stutters and mutes. On the max setting, that delay is between 2 and 3 seconds, way more than you'd imagine from the reported ASIO latency of somewhere around 90ms (asioguard high).

But there's another twist (keep reading, VE Pro fans). What I've found is that the normal or high levels of asioguard exhibit this problem. The low figure, however, is perfect. No glitches, everything zips along when playing back or at rest. The performance gains though are far more modest at this setting. I'm back to a 256 buffer (which I was always perfectly ok with, mind). The average meter is actually on the high side - something like 60-70% on playback, while the real time figure is very low at more like 20%. And as I said before, unlike on a Cubase internal project, there's no CPU creep up when playing on a VE Pro track.

So that's a little disappointing after the initial euphoria. But - the difference between low vs medium / high leads me to suspect that this isn't how things are supposed to be (indeed, does everyone else get what I'm getting? Please do test and report). The latency figures reported by C8 are 17ms for low, 23ms for medium and a huge jump to 92ms for high. Why is 17ms great, yet 23ms isn't useable? I think somewhere between C8 and the VEP client, there's some optimising to be done.

All of which leads me to conclude that if you're after performance gains from VEP today, you may not find them. As for the future - well, maybe. Might take a while for VSL / Steinberg to get to grips with it. Logically there's no reason why it shouldn't work better than it currently does.

As for everything else, so far it's mostly all good. Play is working really smoothly now (it never did in 7.5). There's a graphic issue affecting it (and sometimes Kontakt) where drop down menus or dialogs cause problems. The workaround is to uncheck "always on top" for any problem plugin. It's a known issue and I'd have thought that'll be one of the first fixes out of the gate.

I love the plugin manager. its de-cluttered my fx and instrument lists hugely. As before, I like the mixer and the windows arrangements, now I have my head around them. There's a known metronome bug, where it goes intermittent or stops sounding - the workaround is to only start on the bar. It's seems ok to drop in on the fly though which is good, I do that all the time.

In summary - loads of good, some disappointments, no dealbreakers or workflow stoppers for me, which is always a relief in a 0.0 release. Here's hoping VSL and Steinberg get their heads together.

PS - toggling timebase for multiple tracks - sadly it appears not. Very odd that, shift / alt works for everything else.


----------



## Ah_dziz

This update finally made me switch from Cubase 5. I'm excited. Lots of new stuff and according to steinberg better performance which is all I care about.

JJ


----------



## NYC Composer

Stephen Baysted @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> Very brief play just now and here on my Mid 2010 8 core mac pro, I'm immediately noticing a huge difference in performance: a Kontakt Spitfire Strings combo patch that always struggles to play ball on anything other than an SSD is now running smoothly from an internal 7200 HD at 256 buffer (normally I run a much much higher buffer than that).
> 
> Generally, the whole thing seems much snappier; tempo detection from a few experiments works pretty damn well and will be a great feature for my workflow.
> 
> I'll see what gives with my templates on the morrow, but it's looking good so far.



This is truly exciting. Which version of OSX are you running?


----------



## woodsdenis

NYC Composer @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Stephen Baysted @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very brief play just now and here on my Mid 2010 8 core mac pro, I'm immediately noticing a huge difference in performance: a Kontakt Spitfire Strings combo patch that always struggles to play ball on anything other than an SSD is now running smoothly from an internal 7200 HD at 256 buffer (normally I run a much much higher buffer than that).
> 
> Generally, the whole thing seems much snappier; tempo detection from a few experiments works pretty damn well and will be a great feature for my workflow.
> 
> I'll see what gives with my templates on the morrow, but it's looking good so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is truly exciting. Which version of OSX are you running?
Click to expand...


It is intriguing, what do you use now Larry ?


----------



## NYC Composer

woodsdenis @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen Baysted @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very brief play just now and here on my Mid 2010 8 core mac pro, I'm immediately noticing a huge difference in performance: a Kontakt Spitfire Strings combo patch that always struggles to play ball on anything other than an SSD is now running smoothly from an internal 7200 HD at 256 buffer (normally I run a much much higher buffer than that).
> 
> Generally, the whole thing seems much snappier; tempo detection from a few experiments works pretty damn well and will be a great feature for my workflow.
> 
> I'll see what gives with my templates on the morrow, but it's looking good so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is truly exciting. Which version of OSX are you running?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is intriguing, what do you use now Larry ?
Click to expand...


I'm on Snow Leopard on my Mac Pro 2008, which is hosting Cubase 6. I have a Mini slave running 10.84, and am thinking I might put C8 on that, or upgrade my Mac Pro (finally) to Yosemite.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Pzy-Clone @ Fri Dec 05 said:


> Oh my..., look what happened
> Cannot seem to notice any difference in latencies or whatnot..., when leaving tracks unnarmed it reduced the Asio impact by a rather generous amount ...i would say.
> 
> Does Asio guard 2 work ...whatever it does? Seems like it does indeed.
> Nifty.



Yeah but... that was always the case wasn't it? Unarming tracks reduces the load! Nice to hear though that performance improved evidently.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

I try to get my head around Aiso guard, and I wonder, from what point on is this correlation relevant to the quality of your automation data? Any thoughts?



> Audio Mixdown, Freezing and Render in Place can be accelerated by increasing latency. *This reduces the resolution of automation though*. For each ASIO block (which equals buffer size in samples), one automation value per parameter is being calculated.


----------



## Stephen Baysted

NYC Composer @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Stephen Baysted @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very brief play just now and here on my Mid 2010 8 core mac pro, I'm immediately noticing a huge difference in performance: a Kontakt Spitfire Strings combo patch that always struggles to play ball on anything other than an SSD is now running smoothly from an internal 7200 HD at 256 buffer (normally I run a much much higher buffer than that).
> 
> Generally, the whole thing seems much snappier; tempo detection from a few experiments works pretty damn well and will be a great feature for my workflow.
> 
> I'll see what gives with my templates on the morrow, but it's looking good so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is truly exciting. Which version of OSX are you running?
Click to expand...


Hi Larry 

Mountain lion - didn't upgrade to Mavericks. 

But a new Mac Pro is on order anyway, so as soon as I can I'll be switching operations to that if all goes well. 

Cheers


----------



## NYC Composer

Stephen Baysted @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen Baysted @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very brief play just now and here on my Mid 2010 8 core mac pro, I'm immediately noticing a huge difference in performance: a Kontakt Spitfire Strings combo patch that always struggles to play ball on anything other than an SSD is now running smoothly from an internal 7200 HD at 256 buffer (normally I run a much much higher buffer than that).
> 
> Generally, the whole thing seems much snappier; tempo detection from a few experiments works pretty damn well and will be a great feature for my workflow.
> 
> I'll see what gives with my templates on the morrow, but it's looking good so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is truly exciting. Which version of OSX are you running?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hi Larry
> 
> Mountain lion - didn't upgrade to Mavericks.
> 
> But a new Mac Pro is on order anyway, so as soon as I can I'll be switching operations to that if all goes well.
> 
> Cheers
Click to expand...


Wow. You're going to be in Power City. Good on you!


----------



## Stephen Baysted

NYC Composer @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Stephen Baysted @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYC Composer @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen Baysted @ Fri Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very brief play just now and here on my Mid 2010 8 core mac pro, I'm immediately noticing a huge difference in performance: a Kontakt Spitfire Strings combo patch that always struggles to play ball on anything other than an SSD is now running smoothly from an internal 7200 HD at 256 buffer (normally I run a much much higher buffer than that).
> 
> Generally, the whole thing seems much snappier; tempo detection from a few experiments works pretty damn well and will be a great feature for my workflow.
> 
> I'll see what gives with my templates on the morrow, but it's looking good so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is truly exciting. Which version of OSX are you running?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hi Larry
> 
> Mountain lion - didn't upgrade to Mavericks.
> 
> But a new Mac Pro is on order anyway, so as soon as I can I'll be switching operations to that if all goes well.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. You're going to be in Power City. Good on you!
Click to expand...


Certainly hope so. In theory I'll be able to retire all the slaves and run everything from maybe the dustbin, 2x multidocks and this old Mac Pro. We'll see .


----------



## Guy Rowland

I've submitted an issue report re VE Pro to Steinberg (awaiting moderator approval, so no live link yet). I've had one person on the Cubase Facebook group have identical symptoms in OSX (nMP 2013, 6 core 32GB ram OS X 10.9), while another doesn't even get that far without serious problems (Mac OS X 10.9 running on a 12-core Mac Pro (2013) with 24 GB of RAM) Here's my report:

SYSTEM

Win 7 64 bit SP1 Aero on, i7 4930, RME Babyface, 64gb RAM, Cubase 8.0.0 64 bit, VEP 5.3.13407

PROBLEM 

VE Pro tracks audio muting when switching between channels in Cubase if asioguard is set to normal or high.

STEPS TO REPRODUCE

1. In Device Settings, enable asioguard, set to nornal or high.
2. Open VE Pro server and create two instances. Insert VIs on first channel of each (I'm using Kontakt 5 and Play for a test, but think the VIs used are irrelevant).
3. Create two VEP rack instruments, and connect to the two VEP instances.
4. Switch between the two VEP tracks in the Cubase project window (or switch monitor enabling between them)
5. Result is that the audio output mutes as they are switched.

Note 1 - length of time that the mute occurs varies according to the general complexity of project, whether or not playing back at the same time, and the asioguard setting. I've experienced up to approx 3 seconds.

Note 2 - problem does not exist when asioguard is set to low. Audio is uninterrupted.


----------



## Daryl

Are you switching channels whilst in playback?

D


----------



## Resoded

So after some first tried yesterday, really love the new workspaces. Alt+6 and Alt+7 between workspaces is smooth.

And being able to customize tracks is brilliant.

All plugins seems to work except for Valhalla room. I can't get the preset menu to pop open? Anyone else tried it?

Concerning ASIO guard, I tried torturing my computer with 2 heavy instances of B2 and an extremely heavy ram piano patch and played around a bit. There was somewhere around 10-15 % lower usage with ASIO guard than it was without it.


----------



## tokatila

Resoded @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> All plugins seems to work except for Valhalla room. I can't get the preset menu to pop open? Anyone else tried it?



Yes, it's a known problem related to window handling, I understood it will be fixed in the upcoming maintenance update. You can use the preset browser by unselecting "Always on top" on the upper right corner of the plugin (seems to work on all the affected plugins, Valhalla isn't the only one).


----------



## Stephen Baysted

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> I've submitted an issue report re VE Pro to Steinberg (awaiting moderator approval, so no live link yet). I've had one person on the Cubase Facebook group have identical symptoms in OSX (nMP 2013, 6 core 32GB ram OS X 10.9), while another doesn't even get that far without serious problems (Mac OS X 10.9 running on a 12-core Mac Pro (2013) with 24 GB of RAM) Here's my report:
> 
> SYSTEM
> 
> Win 7 64 bit SP1 Aero on, i7 4930, RME Babyface, 64gb RAM, Cubase 8.0.0 64 bit, VEP 5.3.13407
> 
> PROBLEM
> 
> VE Pro tracks audio muting when switching between channels in Cubase if asioguard is set to normal or high.
> 
> STEPS TO REPRODUCE
> 
> 1. In Device Settings, enable asioguard, set to nornal or high.
> 2. Open VE Pro server and create two instances. Insert VIs on first channel of each (I'm using Kontakt 5 and Play for a test, but think the VIs used are irrelevant).
> 3. Create two VEP rack instruments, and connect to the two VEP instances.
> 4. Switch between the two VEP tracks in the Cubase project window (or switch monitor enabling between them)
> 5. Result is that the audio output mutes as they are switched.
> 
> Note 1 - length of time that the mute occurs varies according to the general complexity of project, whether or not playing back at the same time, and the asioguard setting. I've experienced up to approx 3 seconds.
> 
> Note 2 - problem does not exist when asioguard is set to low. Audio is uninterrupted.



Guy, you don't run slaves do you - VEP on your single PC? 

I'm about to try my template (across 4 slaves) so will see what happens :D


----------



## Guy Rowland

Daryl @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Are you switching channels whilst in playback?
> 
> D



Happens with either, though as I mentioned in the post, playback makes it worse - it really horribly falls apart. That basic test I listed mutes switching between 2 instruments for about half a second or so, no playback. (buffer set to 256 on that test, btw).


----------



## Daryl

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Daryl @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you switching channels whilst in playback?
> 
> D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happens with either, though as I mentioned in the post, playback makes it worse - it really horribly falls apart. That basic test I listed mutes switching between 2 instruments for about half a second or so, no playback. (buffer set to 256 on that test, btw).
Click to expand...

I'd expect there to be some sort of mute whilst doing it in playback, but not if you stop the sequencer in between changing tracks, so that is certainly something that should be fixed.

D


----------



## Stephen Baysted

Happily no issues so far with the template or a recent project with video. Not getting your issues either Guy, though as above, VE pro comes in from slaves. Oh and it's not the latest version either (it's 5.1.12331) - haven't wanted to upgrade to the latest until a game is finished. 

Valhalla works as normal. 

Looks good so far.


----------



## Guy Rowland

What's your asioguard setting, Stephen? (I'm all on one machine, btw, no slaves).


----------



## Øivind

I have not tested this thoroughly, but here are my initial findings after some quick tests.

I have the same issue (running VEpro on a slave). Seems to take a while before it manages to get sound through.

Having the Babyface on 128 samples, gives me this issue on any Asio Guard setting
except off. Having it on 256 gives me this issue on Normal and High (but not low, tho i do get some minor 
static when switching).

Tho there does not seem to be any issues when switching between tracks/instruments that are on the same VEpro instance.
Only when i switch between VEpro instances. 
If i have 1 instance for Strings and 1 instance for Brass. When i switch from Trumpet to Violins, i get the delay/static. 
But from Trumpet to Horns or Violins to Violas, there are no issues. This also happens even it the instance is not active. 
Like if i have the String instance de-activated in the VST instrument rack, but have the Brass instance activated, and 
switch from Violin to Trumpet, i still get the delay.

Edit: There does not seem to be any difference between going from Play to Kontakt, Kontakt to Kontakt, Play to Play or Kontakt to Play, for me at least.


For now, i just turned Asio Guard off.
Audio Priority and MMCSS for Asio do not seem to have any affect on the outcome.

Windows 8.1
Cubase 8.0
VEpro 5.3.13407
RME Babyface (driver 1.059)
(all 64bit)


----------



## Stephen Baysted

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> What's your asioguard setting, Stephen? (I'm all on one machine, btw, no slaves).




It's on normal Guy. Upped my buffers to 512 which is where they normally are. Also, absolutely no PLAY in my template (whether that makes any difference at all is another question).


----------



## jamwerks

How soon does the ".0.1" usually come?


----------



## Guy Rowland

Thanks for those results Ovind (and welcome to VI-C!)

Stephen I just tested my dummy very simple project at 512, and that's fine on normal, but still broken on high. If you get a chance, could you do a quick test on some other settings? At this point, I'll be surprised if you don't run into this issue pretty quick.

Based on my own tests, feedback now from several sources (and some privately), I think I know what's going on. I'm pretty certain that the problem exists on all VE Pros in all formats with asioguard, but exactly how it manifests will vary depending on the specifics of your setup and the project itself.

What is clear is that when you switch channels with asioguard, you get a CPU hit. That's across the board. How big a hit will depend on the plugin itself, and your regular buffer settings, soundcard etc. Finding the right combination of settings will be unique to everyone. All the while you're just replaying stuff, you can pretty much throw the buffer size right down to minimum and Cubase will cope. However, it's a moot point - if you're not playing anything live at all, then it's just the same pushing your regular buffer way up. It's only when you engage with live instruments and monitoring that things kick off.

Now, what seems to be happening with VE Pro is that the call on resources as it switches track to a new instance is doing something positively nasty. Up to a point, the systems can cope - in my case @256 and low asioguard, the drain on resources is within tolerance. However, at some point you'll tip it over the edge if you push it hard enough. And when it goes, boy does it go.

VE Pro doesn't handle this process at all gracefully. My feeling is that it's been easy until now to dismiss asioguard as not worth the effort of recoding for VSL - the advice "don't use asioguard" makes the problem go away, and since hardly anyone ever benefited from it anyway, it was no great loss. Things however have changed with Cpro8. It's pretty obvious that most people are seeing significant performance boost with asioguard 2, doubly important because the performance with asioguard off is actually worse with Cpro8 than C7x. My sense is that asioguard low in Cpro8 is similar in performance to asioguard off in C7. Push the asioguard buffer higher, and you start getting those juicy performance gains. At least you do with most plugins - not VE Pro.

EDIT - Steinberg issues thread now live, feel most free to share your experiences - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... =70250&e=0 . VSL thread here - https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t ... base-Pro-8


----------



## Øivind

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Thanks for those results Ovind (and welcome to VI-C!)



You are welcome, and thanks 


Also, i wanted to add, there does not seem to be any difference between going from Play to Kontakt, Kontakt to Kontakt, 
Play to Play or Kontakt to Play, at least not for me. All yield the same mute/delay in sound when going from instance to
instance.


----------



## Daryl

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> VE Pro doesn't handle this process at all gracefully. My feeling is that it's been easy until now to dismiss asioguard as not worth the effort of recoding for VSL - the advice "don't use asioguard" makes the problem go away, and since hardly anyone ever benefited from it anyway, it was no great loss. Things however have changed with Cpro8. It's pretty obvious that most people are seeing significant performance boost with asioguard 2, doubly important because the performance with asioguard off is actually worse with Cpro8 than C7x. My sense is that asioguard low in Cpro8 is similar in performance to asioguard off in C7. Push the asioguard buffer higher, and you start getting those juicy performance gains. At least you do with most plugins - not VE Pro.


Guy, to be fair ASIO guard didn't work with streaming instruments before C8, so I don't think it was necessarily a case of dismissal.

Also Steinberg actually states that you will get dropouts when changing channels and advises against using multitimbral instruments with ASIO guard, so I wouldn't hold your breath for any change in the current behaviour. Not that you shouldn't ask for it to be improved, of course.

D


----------



## Guy Rowland

Daryl @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Guy, to be fair ASIO guard didn't work with streaming instruments before C8, so I don't think it was necessarily a case of dismissal.
> 
> Also Steinberg actually states that you will get dropouts when changing channels and advises against using multitimbral instruments with ASIO guard, so I wouldn't hold your breath for any change in the current behaviour. Not that you shouldn't ask for it to be improved, of course.
> 
> D



No, I wasn't intending to be critical of VSL - switching it off was the obvious and best solution in C7!

I've seen no issues with multitimbral instruments in tests (just performed some to be sure). But if the ultimate solution is to keep asioguard off, CPro8 is in trouble. The peformance with the guard off is noticeably worse than C7. So either Steinberg need to make the regular performance better, or they (and VSL) need to make asioguard work better with VE Pro (and any other plugins that don't currently like it).


----------



## Daryl

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> I've seen no issues with multitimbral instruments in tests (just performed some to be sure). But if the ultimate solution is to keep asioguard off, CPro8 is in trouble. The peformance with the guard off is noticeably worse than C7. So either Steinberg need to make the regular performance better, or they (and VSL) need to make asioguard work better with VE Pro (and any other plugins that don't currently like it).


It seems to me that if Steinberg's advice is not to use multitimbral instruments, then I agree that C8 is in trouble. None of us want is to be dragged down to the level of Logic in this regard. :cry: 

D


----------



## IFM

Daryl @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen no issues with multitimbral instruments in tests (just performed some to be sure). But if the ultimate solution is to keep asioguard off, CPro8 is in trouble. The peformance with the guard off is noticeably worse than C7. So either Steinberg need to make the regular performance better, or they (and VSL) need to make asioguard work better with VE Pro (and any other plugins that don't currently like it).
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to me that if Steinberg's advice is not to use multitimbral instruments, then I agree that C8 is in trouble. None of us want is to be dragged down to the level of Logic in this regard. :cry:
> 
> D
Click to expand...


On the contrary I find Logic's method more appealing as I can assign multiple articulations to channels. When I was on C7 being forced to run on one instance meant the PC slave was getting bogged down much sooner than necessary. Maybe a compromise would be to split instances into sections (strings, winds, synths, etc) on a VEP host?

Chris


----------



## Guy Rowland

I'm near certain that the current situation can be improved upon. Best thing is to let Steinberg / VSL know that things need a tweak one way or the other.


----------



## Stephen Baysted

Guy

Doesn't seem to make any difference what ASIOGUARD setting is applied here. No pausing or any issues at all switching between slaves or indeed instruments in the VE PRo instance. All seamless and smooth. The vast majority of my Kontakt instances are multi-timbral and I use few instances of VE Pro, but use lots of outputs. This is across 3 slaves atm (two PC and one Mac Mini) and obviously on the Mac Pro master.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Stephen Baysted @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Guy
> 
> Doesn't seem to make any difference what ASIOGUARD setting is applied here. No pausing or any issues at all switching between slaves or indeed instruments in the VE PRo instance. All seamless and smooth. The vast majority of my Kontakt instances are multi-timbral and I use few instances of VE Pro, but use lots of outputs. This is across 3 slaves atm (two PC and one Mac Mini) and obviously on the Mac Pro master.



Remarkable! Next step for me - test your legacy version of ve pro. Did you lower the buffers? Purely an exercise to see if the same behaviour is there but less severe.


----------



## Vlzmusic

I seem to have a problem with Play 4.2.2, in a fresh installed Win 8 machine. Some of the lists and menus won`t open, while the instruments seem to play though...

I have seen some menus problem mentioned earlier, but puzzling indeed - didn`t it happen to any of the beta testers? I think Play is in the first five VI`s to check...


----------



## NYC Composer

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Stephen Baysted @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guy
> 
> Doesn't seem to make any difference what ASIOGUARD setting is applied here. No pausing or any issues at all switching between slaves or indeed instruments in the VE PRo instance. All seamless and smooth. The vast majority of my Kontakt instances are multi-timbral and I use few instances of VE Pro, but use lots of outputs. This is across 3 slaves atm (two PC and one Mac Mini) and obviously on the Mac Pro master.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remarkable! Next step for me - test your legacy version of ve pro. Did you lower the buffers? Purely an exercise to see if the same behaviour is there but less severe.
Click to expand...


Hmm...PC problem but not Mac?


----------



## Guy Rowland

Vlzmusic @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> I seem to have a problem with Play 4.2.2, in a fresh installed Win 8 machine. Some of the lists and menus won`t open, while the instruments seem to play though...
> 
> I have seen some menus problem mentioned earlier, but puzzling indeed - didn`t it happen to any of the beta testers? I think Play is in the first five VI`s to check...



That's a known glitch (and not just Play). Easy workaround though til the real fix - unckeck "always on top" (top RHS of the Cubase plugin window) and it works fine.


----------



## Guy Rowland

NYC Composer @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen Baysted @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guy
> 
> Doesn't seem to make any difference what ASIOGUARD setting is applied here. No pausing or any issues at all switching between slaves or indeed instruments in the VE PRo instance. All seamless and smooth. The vast majority of my Kontakt instances are multi-timbral and I use few instances of VE Pro, but use lots of outputs. This is across 3 slaves atm (two PC and one Mac Mini) and obviously on the Mac Pro master.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remarkable! Next step for me - test your legacy version of ve pro. Did you lower the buffers? Purely an exercise to see if the same behaviour is there but less severe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm...PC problem but not Mac?
Click to expand...


No, had multiple reports of mac users (different variants) with identical symptoms. AFAIK, Stephen's is the only known system in the world that actually works with asioguard on high and switching tracks on VEP instances @512. 512 buffer is reasonably high of course, but my two instance / two instrument project can't do that at 512, and a 4930 is no slouch. I suppose it's not impossible that it's related to the instances being connected to slaves, but seems very unlikely. More likely is the earlier VEP version (I'll try that in the morning). Otherwise it must be something very system specific, but OS agnostic.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Vlzmusic @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to have a problem with Play 4.2.2, in a fresh installed Win 8 machine. Some of the lists and menus won`t open, while the instruments seem to play though...
> 
> I have seen some menus problem mentioned earlier, but puzzling indeed - didn`t it happen to any of the beta testers? I think Play is in the first five VI`s to check...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a known glitch (and not just Play). Easy workaround though til the real fix - unckeck "always on top" (top RHS of the Cubase plugin window) and it works fine.
Click to expand...


Hallelujah! Thanks a lot, worked like a charm.


----------



## Stephen Baysted

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen Baysted @ Sat Dec 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guy
> 
> Doesn't seem to make any difference what ASIOGUARD setting is applied here. No pausing or any issues at all switching between slaves or indeed instruments in the VE PRo instance. All seamless and smooth. The vast majority of my Kontakt instances are multi-timbral and I use few instances of VE Pro, but use lots of outputs. This is across 3 slaves atm (two PC and one Mac Mini) and obviously on the Mac Pro master.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remarkable! Next step for me - test your legacy version of ve pro. Did you lower the buffers? Purely an exercise to see if the same behaviour is there but less severe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm...PC problem but not Mac?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, had multiple reports of mac users (different variants) with identical symptoms. AFAIK, Stephen's is the only known system in the world that actually works with asioguard on high and switching tracks on VEP instances @512. 512 buffer is reasonably high of course, but my two instance / two instrument project can't do that at 512, and a 4930 is no slouch. I suppose it's not impossible that it's related to the instances being connected to slaves, but seems very unlikely. More likely is the earlier VEP version (I'll try that in the morning). Otherwise it must be something very system specific, but OS agnostic.
Click to expand...



I think the only explanation is that it's not such an issue across slaves as it is on hosting outside the DAW on a single machine. 

I'll lower the buffer back and test on high again. 

One thing to note, I just checked my 7.5 settings, and Asioguard is always on. Buffer is either 512 or 768.


----------



## Stephen Baysted

Right, not a scientific test, but here's what I discovered. 

With my main template loaded (over 350 tracks) and with 30 plus Kontakt instances loaded on my Mac Pro, and 3 VE Pro instances coming in across 3 slaves, UAD Apollo over FW:

Asioguard HIGH, at 256 I get a pause. At 384 I get a pause. At 512 the pause goes away. 768 nary a hint of any pause etc 

Asioguard at Normal, 256 a short pause. At 384 no pause. 

Asioguard on Low, 256 no pause. 


Given that I normally run very happily at 512 or 768, all is extremely fine and dandy. So on your system, you get a pause at any buffer with Asioguard on high?


----------



## IFM

If this pause is what I think you guys are talking about this is something we've always had in Logic. It just takes a few milliseconds for a track to switch buffers and never a big deal...just move a controller to prep the buffer.

Chris


----------



## NYC Composer

Stephen Baysted @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Right, not a scientific test, but here's what I discovered.
> 
> With my main template loaded (over 350 tracks) and with 30 plus Kontakt instances loaded on my Mac Pro, and 3 VE Pro instances coming in across 3 slaves, UAD Apollo over FW:
> 
> Asioguard HIGH, at 256 I get a pause. At 384 I get a pause. At 512 the pause goes away. 768 nary a hint of any pause etc
> 
> Asioguard at Normal, 256 a short pause. At 384 no pause.
> 
> Asioguard on Low, 256 no pause.
> 
> 
> Given that I normally run very happily at 512 or 768, all is extremely fine and dandy. So on your system, you get a pause at any buffer with Asioguard on high?



Stephen, if you're happy at 512 or 768, do you generally not play your parts in realtime from your MIDI keyboard? Do you step input or paint notes in?


----------



## Stephen Baysted

Hi Larry

I always play in in real time for everything as I'm a reasonable pianist so I can get around pretty well. It's never bothered me this quest for very low latency ever since everything was viable over LAN with multiple slaves. It's just like the real piano - not sure what the latency is, but it's got to be up at 768 or more in reality. Maybe I've learned to compensate - not sure.


----------



## dedersen

Lots of nice things in this upgrade. Bounce in place is a great addition that I have been missing for a long time. Now I can finally get rid of the macros I had made in place of the feature. The new window management is an improvement, I just wish they had trimmed the instrument rack. It is so big and clumsy since 7.5 (or was it 7.0?). Here's hoping this will be adressed in a future patch/upgrade.


----------



## NYC Composer

Stephen Baysted @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Hi Larry
> 
> I always play in in real time for everything as I'm a reasonable pianist so I can get around pretty well. It's never bothered me this quest for very low latency ever since everything was viable over LAN with multiple slaves. It's just like the real piano - not sure what the latency is, but it's got to be up at 768 or more in reality. Maybe I've learned to compensate - not sure.



After years of being a groove player, I find latency totally frustrating. Also, it distracts me from creating for idiomatic instrumental performances. Glad it works for you though, Stephen. Me, got to have 256 as the highest.


----------



## jamwerks

What buffer setting do you guys use in VEP; 2, 3?


----------



## Ah_dziz

So as a person with a non complicated setup (everything loaded into cubase, no slaves) making the jump from five to eight is amazing. My 28GB template loads in less than half the time and ASIO performance is around twenty percent lower and noticeably more stable at factory settings. This is on a PC running win 7. I don't know how many of the other cool features were added in six and seven but I went from desperately trying to find a new host that I could live with to loving cubase again. I am kind of bummed out that I had to turn on aero but I can live with it as a trade off for what I've gained. 

Everything is great for me as is but where does one play with asio guard settings?

JJ


----------



## Guy Rowland

Stephen Baysted @ Sat Dec 06 said:


> Right, not a scientific test, but here's what I discovered.
> 
> With my main template loaded (over 350 tracks) and with 30 plus Kontakt instances loaded on my Mac Pro, and 3 VE Pro instances coming in across 3 slaves, UAD Apollo over FW:
> 
> Asioguard HIGH, at 256 I get a pause. At 384 I get a pause. At 512 the pause goes away. 768 nary a hint of any pause etc
> 
> Asioguard at Normal, 256 a short pause. At 384 no pause.
> 
> Asioguard on Low, 256 no pause.
> 
> 
> Given that I normally run very happily at 512 or 768, all is extremely fine and dandy. So on your system, you get a pause at any buffer with Asioguard on high?



Thanks Stephen, really useful info. It's certainly better than I'm getting - my dummy 2 instrument project craps out at 512 on high. My guess would be that the VE Pro version is a red herring, and it's just the difference in Mac / soundcard gives you a bit more wriggle room. But it's a guess - maybe it is significant. I should probably check it out tomorrow.

I haven't checked above 512, I suspect the pause it will go away at a very high figure. My benchmark is that 256 has been stable for me in C7 (no asioguard), so any worse performance than that is cause for concern for me. I think I can just about equal that peformance with asioguard set to low, but it might need some more thorough testing on my part to be sure it's really solid.

Chris - the pause we're getting is a lot more than a few milliseconds. At the high asioguard setting and 256, when playing back I get pauses of up to 3 seconds. It's well over a second when not playing back. Just regular clicking between tracks becomes a horror.

jamwerks - excellent question, as we're comparing performance it's a crucial factor that I've been forgetting to mention. My small test project is set to 2.

[EDIT] - JJ - the settings are in Device Setup.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

A for the VEPro issues, you might want to add your voice here:

https://vsl.co.at/community/posts/t...n-switching-tracks-in-Cubase-Pro-8#post233015


----------



## Guy Rowland

G.R. Baumann @ Sun Dec 07 said:


> A for the VEPro issues, you might want to add your voice here:
> 
> https://vsl.co.at/community/posts/t...n-switching-tracks-in-Cubase-Pro-8#post233015



Thanks v much for the link G.R (oooh - a fellow GR I've just realised, how lovely) - and can I also gently nudge people towards the Steinberg equivalent here - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 30&t=70250 - which at the time of wrting has precisely 9 views and 0 comments. Little chance of this getting attention amid all the 0.0 noise if that stays as it is. Simple +1s on issue threads are perfect (unless of course you have any specifics to add).


----------



## IFM

Does it mute and come back after a second or does it stay muted?
Chris


----------



## Guy Rowland

Dragonwind @ Sun Dec 07 said:


> Does it mute and come back after a second or does it stay muted?
> Chris



Mutes and comes back. Time varies depending on settings, up to 3s for me on High / 256.

It's not useable in practive, because it doesn't just affect playback as you switch, just auditioning tracks will do it with transport at rest.


----------



## IFM

Guy Rowland @ Sun Dec 07 said:


> Dragonwind @ Sun Dec 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it mute and come back after a second or does it stay muted?
> Chris
Click to expand...


Mutes and comes back. Time varies depending on settings, up to 3s for me on High / 256.

It's not useable in practive, because it doesn't just affect playback as you switch, just auditioning tracks will do it with transport at rest.[/quote}

What about on Medium? In Logic the choices are the same (Low, Med High). Low is 512, Med is 1024, and high is 2048. Using High has never yielded good results so I leave it at medium with a live buffer of 256. It seems like the are trying to do the same thing.

In LP however, if I wanted to use a single VEP instance for say all the HS sections, I would have to use the VEP Live Input feature which causes that track to stay live 100% of the time and chew up a single core. It does work but you are limited in other things like bounce in place. Instead using one VEP instance per section yields the results I need.

C8 sounds like it is trying to overcome these oddities. I do look forward to trying it once the demo is out. Maybe I'll move back if it works for me. 
Chris


----------



## Guy Rowland

Chris - if you go back up the posts here you'll see all the tests and results on my system.


----------



## dgburns

Guy Rowland @ Sun Dec 07 said:


> Chris - if you go back up the posts here you'll see all the tests and results on my system.



Sorry to jump in here,but I was wondering what all this means with how best to set up vep now?Does this all mean we are better to be thinking about creating many vep's with one instrument per project instance a la Logic,or are we still going to want to go with many intances in a few vep projects?

obviously I'm referring to C8 and running VEPro 5


----------



## Guy Rowland

dgburns @ Sun Dec 07 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Sun Dec 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chris - if you go back up the posts here you'll see all the tests and results on my system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to jump in here,but I was wondering what all this means with how best to set up vep now?Does this all mean we are better to be thinking about creating many vep's with one instrument per project instance a la Logic,or are we still going to want to go with many intances in a few vep projects?
> 
> obviously I'm referring to C8 and running VEPro 5
Click to expand...


On my tests, more VEPs with less will produce no better results. I get my dropouts with just one instrument in two instances!

Anyway, best advice right now is to hold tight I think. Martin from VSL has just posted this on the VSL forum:



> The issue with audio dropping out when switching tracks, is probably due to latency for VEPro varies with buffer size. VEPro reports its new latency to Cubase, which has to recalculate its latency compensation - causing a drop-out in the audio stream. It appears that Cubase does this instantly, while a latency change reported to for instance Logic Pro, will only take effect from the next stop/play cycle - which sounds more reasonable to me.
> 
> We are looking into this behavior and will try to improve the situation asap.



https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t ... post233015 . 

Not sure if that's the whole story, who has to do what and where, but the good news is that they now seem very much like they want to see an improvement ASAP. Hopeful news.


----------



## rgames

I gather the pudding is not what we had hoped...

As I said a few pages back, I bet it's tricky to make ASIO guard work with VE pro but it could be do-able (Logic does something similar, right?). At a minimum, Steinberg could adapt the armed channel so that its buffer is less than the ASIO guard buffer but still larger than the sound card buffer.

There's a happy medium there somewhere that 's probably system dependent, so they'd have to come up with some algorithm that figures it out. People probably would never notice the latency increase.

Do the problems arise only when switching channels during playback? Do they go away if you stop playback and switch channels? Seems like that might be a workaround, albeit a pain.

rgames


----------



## NYC Composer

....and THIS is why I thank y'all for beta testing for me.


----------



## germancomponist

NYC Composer @ Sun Dec 07 said:


> ....and THIS is why I thank y'all for beta testing for me.



I thought exactly the same, but never would have told it here... . I always wait... . :mrgreen:

And BTW, I always liked it to read Richard G. Ames' s posts when it comes to such things! o-[][]-o


----------



## Guy Rowland

rgames @ Sun Dec 07 said:


> Do the problems arise only when switching channels during playback? Do they go away if you stop playback and switch channels? Seems like that might be a workaround, albeit a pain.



No, they're still there with transport at rest. Playback makes it a bit worse, but it's bad enough as it is.

From VSL Martin's reply, it sounds like the issue is in the handshaking between Cubase and VE Pro. Logically, it should be possible to get a good performance going (says he, knowing nothing about coding). The max latency reported by Cubase on High is about 90ms. So what's happening - as far as I understand it - is that all these nice preloaded 90s buffers are streaming in from VE Pro (even when at rest), then when you switch tracks, Cubase says to VE Pro "oh, I need it now", VE Pro says "right you are, here's what delay compensation you need" and Cubase goes "urgh" and falls over.

What perhaps needs to happen (again as hinted by Martin) is that when you switch a track, it keeps the high buffer going for the duration of that buffer. 90ms ain't so bad when it's literally 90ms once, the moment you hit the button, most of the time you haven't got as far as even pressing a note in that 0.1 of a second. Then at the end of that period, this beautiful magical graceful switch occurs with the delay compensation goes from 90ms down to 7 (or whatever your soundcard is set to).

Now someone can put me right there if my shaky understanding is even more shaky than I think it is. But the POTENTIAL I still think is very exciting... if that switch from one latency to another can be smooth.


----------



## jiten

Hi Guy,

Finally got the chance to run your tests in more detail on my system and here is what I'm getting (on a 256 buffer):

*Low setting - Everything smooth, performance for me better than it was in C7.5 and C7. I am able to reduce my buffers slightly in projects that previously would sometimes spike/crackle. Switching between instances and channels is seamless.

*Normal setting - There is a 1 second or less pause when switching channels. It's not too hindering for me when playback is stopped, but if I switch while I'm playing or immediately start playing as I switch, the sound noticeably drops out and comes back. On playback, I can definitely hear ~1 sec gap when switching. I also get occasional artifacts immediately after I switch.

*High setting - I'm also getting a 3 second gap here. This setting is unusable, everything slows down because switching buffers takes so long.

I'm happiest running in the low setting as I get the ASIO guard benefit and smoothness. This is actually the setting I had been running at and never noticed switching issues. 

In the normal / high settings, it sounds to me that like you said, the interaction of C8 with VEP as it switches the buffers isn't quite perfected. Because the non-live tracks are being processed ahead with higher buffer during playback, I almost would have expected some sort of gap as Cubase switched a selected instance into real-time. However, it works totally seamlessly with the low setting and *almost* there with the normal setting so maybe it is possible to improve coordination in the switch over. The latest message from Martin at VSL sounds promising!

For reference: I'm running latest VEP off of a slave, ~10 instances, each instance set to 20 MIDI inputs and 50 audio outputs (not all are utilized in all the instances though). VEP buffer in each instance is set to 1.


----------



## rgames

I think the smartest thing for Steinberg to do is allow the user to independently specify the additional AG buffers for the armed and un-armed tracks. Right now it seems there's only one setting that assigns the values to both.

If the user could independently control both then he could adapt his setup to his tolerance for the trade between latency and number of crackles. You can kind-of do that now by messing with the sound card buffer in conjunction with the AG settings but it's not the same level of control.

Or maybe have an "auto" mode and an "expert" mode in the AG setup, where the expert mode allows independent settings for armed and un-armed tracks and the auto mode is as it works now. I bet that would solve a lot of the problems.

rgames


----------



## maestro2be

rgames @ Sun Dec 07 said:


> Or maybe have an "auto" mode and an "expert" mode in the AG setup, where the expert mode allows independent settings for armed and un-armed tracks and the auto mode is as it works now. I bet that would solve a lot of the problems.
> 
> rgames




If they do that, I am jumping all over that upgrade!


----------



## Guy Rowland

rgames @ Mon Dec 08 said:


> I think the smartest thing for Steinberg to do is allow the user to independently specify the additional AG buffers for the armed and un-armed tracks. Right now it seems there's only one setting that assigns the values to both.
> 
> If the user could independently control both then he could adapt his setup to his tolerance for the trade between latency and number of crackles. You can kind-of do that now by messing with the sound card buffer in conjunction with the AG settings but it's not the same level of control.
> 
> Or maybe have an "auto" mode and an "expert" mode in the AG setup, where the expert mode allows independent settings for armed and un-armed tracks and the auto mode is as it works now. I bet that would solve a lot of the problems.
> 
> rgames



Actually I don't see how that would solve this problem. As you suggest, you've effectively got exactly this already - fine control over the live buffer in your soundcard (armed), then three levels of control over the guarded tracks in Cubase (unarmed). And I don't see how you could wrench control of the live track over the soundcard either.

The problem isn't really in getting finer control, the problem is the switching itself. That's what's causing the muting and spluttering - and incidentally, that's probably what's also behind big CPU spikes in non ve-pro projects (though in my case it's not resulted in anything audible as yet). Figuring out a way to switching latencies on the fly more elegantly would seem to be the solution here.

jiten - thanks for your post, seems very similar to my system.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

OT

WOW.... I just came across a question and wanted to ask Steinberg in Germany about this, but at 0,99 Euro *per minute* for a call to the Steinberg customer support line, I'd rather.... well, you can make an educated guess.

http://www.steinberg.net/en/support/support_contact/steinberg_phone_support_germany.html

....shaking head in disbelief!


----------



## IFM

Martin's comment makes perfect sense. In LP if I go through a few tracks without starting the transport (or if I am playing back and decide to try several tracks without stopping) all those tracks stay in live mode till I stop or start again. So the only way Steinberg could fix it is to make it just like Logic's method. Hopefully VSL will address it on their end which is sounds like Martin is doing. 
Chris


----------



## Guy Rowland

Dragonwind @ Mon Dec 08 said:


> Martin's comment makes perfect sense. In LP if I go through a few tracks without starting the transport (or if I am playing back and decide to try several tracks without stopping) all those tracks stay in live mode till I stop or start again. So the only way Steinberg could fix it is to make it just like Logic's method. Hopefully VSL will address it on their end which is sounds like Martin is doing.
> Chris



I don't quite get this. At the moment, switching to a live track (under asioguard) makes the output mute immediately. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "live mode", I take it to mean no additional latency. So we've hit a problem in Cubase before we get as far as transport start / stop - the first time you engage live mode, you get the problem - so how does adding more tracks in live mode help?

One way to address it would be to do the opposite - not engage in live mode at all until the next start / stop, but I don't think that would be a satisfactory solution either. If you're auditioning a dozen tracks over a period of a few minutes, then they would all have 100ms latency, not great.

Seamless switching surely is the answer? The only way I can see it not being is if that's physically impossible for some reason. Perhaps its analogous to sample preload buffers - you first stream from RAM while your disk access finds the sample, then it seamlessly switches from one source to another. What I envisage is the same principle - switching from prefetched data to live. Maybe there's a physical reason why this isn't possible, but surely it's the ideal?


----------



## IFM

I'm just reiterating what Martin said, he explained it better. You might have to get in front of LP to see exactly what I mean. Also, I don't think it possible to have a seamless transition because you just can jump from 256k to 1024 without some sort of glitch./mute, whatever. 

The reason it doesn't happen on 'low' is because C8's low is probably 512 and you don't notice the pause...that's speculating of course. For HaHa's take a look at the reported latency on your VEP host and see what it says at the different settings. You could also try 1x or 2x or no buffer on VEP and see if that makes any difference.

Chris


----------



## Guy Rowland

Dragonwind @ Mon Dec 08 said:


> I'm just reiterating what Martin said, he explained it better. You might have to get in front of LP to see exactly what I mean. Also, I don't think it possible to have a seamless transition because you just can jump from 256k to 1024 without some sort of glitch./mute, whatever.
> 
> The reason it doesn't happen on 'low' is because C8's low is probably 512 and you don't notice the pause...that's speculating of course. For HaHa's take a look at the reported latency on your VEP host and see what it says at the different settings. You could also try 1x or 2x or no buffer on VEP and see if that makes any difference.
> 
> Chris



I must admit I didn't understand / buy Martin's description fully either! Purely on my Cubase experience, I don't get how that can work, but I'm sure it's purely my ignorance.

One point though - it's not that you don't notice it on low, it's that doesn't exist. I can tell when playing back - on low I can switch at will without so much a single microclick, on medium someone drives a bulldozer through the audio. It sounds like a CPU suddenly hitting red and shutting stuff down - I presume on low the CPU spike is below a critical threshold on my rig and settings. I'll play more over the coming days, but procrastinating right now (again) and must get back on it...


----------



## dcoscina

I have actually been using Cubase 7.5 a lot more these days coming from DP8. There are some very cool things that Cubase does as far as work flow that I'm digging. I like the multiple CC lanes when I go into the piano roll editor. It also is pretty efficient as far as VI handling so I'm probably going to jump onto the version 8 bandwagon shortly


----------



## Guy Rowland

Dragonwind @ Mon Dec 08 said:


> The reason it doesn't happen on 'low' is because C8's low is probably 512 and you don't notice the pause...that's speculating of course. For HaHa's take a look at the reported latency on your VEP host and see what it says at the different settings. You could also try 1x or 2x or no buffer on VEP and see if that makes any difference.



OK, so had 15 mins to do some more tests, and the plot thickens. What I found is not what I expected.

When you change the asioguard settings (low / normal / high) and click apply, the settings on each connected VE Pro instance change - 256, 512, 1024. That much is as you'd think. However, when I switch tracks and get my much discussed muting, the reported latency within the VE Pro instance does not change. Which is most odd. I don't understand how its getting live latency figures if the amount reported by VE Pro doesn't even change? What is more expected is that on switching tracks, VE Pro reports engine stopped / engine started, which tallies with the muting.

Also curious, when changing the latency on the server (0, 1, 2, 3, 4), the reported latency in VE Pro does not change either, while the engine does start and stop. Disabling asioguard completely has the same results (except the overall latency figure is lower @256).

And one final bit of "hmmm" - when I set asioguard to low, VEP reports 256. This is the same as asioguard off. The engine does not stop and restart with asioguard on or off when changing channels (as you'd expect). Switching the guard to normal or high - 512 or 1024 - produces the bad behaviour. nb - the performance meters are subtly different between off and low, but not checked the differences properly on a full project, this is just my stripped down test.

No idea what on earth to make of that lot. It's hard to believe what VE Pro is reporting in terms of latency is correct - no amount of changing channels with asioguard on, or the server latency under any circumstances, appears to make a scrap of difference.

EDIT - noticed one difference between asioguard on / low, and asioguard off - bottom right hand corner of VE Pro switches between MIXDOWN when channel not selected and the CPU reading when it is (very low % on my test). But engine stays on and is happy (of course, not so on normal or high).


----------



## dcoscina

Guy, 

What if someone just wants to load VIs right into Cubase 8 without VE PRO? Would AsioGuard lower the CPU usage? For me, I only used VE PRO in DP8 because it was having a hard time handling all the plug-ins under its own hood. I find even Cubase 7.5 is much more efficient on CPU for handling VIs loaded directly into it. I love VE PRO but wouldn't be sad to leave it behind and load all VIs right into the DAW.


----------



## José Herring

As far as I can tell Asio guard 2 is working well. The only problems I see reported so far are with VEPro.

If you wanted to host all vi's within Cubase then Asio guard shouldn't be a problem. The only drawback being is that it will make each Cubase project huge and will take a lot of time to load. Which unless you're doing film, really wouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Guy Rowland

dcoscina @ Mon Dec 08 said:


> Guy,
> 
> What if someone just wants to load VIs right into Cubase 8 without VE PRO? Would AsioGuard lower the CPU usage? For me, I only used VE PRO in DP8 because it was having a hard time handling all the plug-ins under its own hood. I find even Cubase 7.5 is much more efficient on CPU for handling VIs loaded directly into it. I love VE PRO but wouldn't be sad to leave it behind and load all VIs right into the DAW.



It would be interesting to do a full load test now. Its certainly different to 7, or earlier versions. Cubase noticeably used to crawl and splutter with lots of VIs in play. I don't know about getting up to template levels of plugins, if Cubase could really handle that... then you have the added loading / saving between projects etc.

But 8's performance in general (all VEP issues aside) is better than 7 it seems to me.


----------



## dcoscina

josejherring @ Mon Dec 08 said:


> As far as I can tell Asio guard 2 is working well. The only problems I see reported so far are with VEPro.
> 
> If you wanted to host all vi's within Cubase then Asio guard shouldn't be a problem. The only drawback being is that it will make each Cubase project huge and will take a lot of time to load. Which unless you're doing film, really wouldn't be a problem.



Thanks Jose and Guy. I will take the plunge shortly. In truth, I probably would stick with DP for film stuff just because I'm fast with it and it works well with VE PRO. I also never use a ton of VIs. I think my Star Trek piece used 3 Kontakt instances and a couple VSL VI PRO instances and I still used them in DP8 without VE PRO and it didn't have any issues.


----------



## José Herring

Then you'll have no problems. 

I use to host 8 fully loaded Kontakts before I got VEPro and Cubase did fine even back then.


----------



## Guy Rowland

josejherring @ Mon Dec 08 said:


> Then you'll have no problems.
> 
> I use to host 8 fully loaded Kontakts before I got VEPro and Cubase did fine even back then.



+1 - absolutely. I think C7 was fine up to about 30 or so VIs, C8 will be a cinch.


----------



## Stephen Baysted

Guy Rowland @ Mon Dec 08 said:


> josejherring @ Mon Dec 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you'll have no problems.
> 
> I use to host 8 fully loaded Kontakts before I got VEPro and Cubase did fine even back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1 - absolutely. I think C7 was fine up to about 30 or so VIs, C8 will be a cinch.
Click to expand...


Hugely better here with C8 at 512/768 than 7.5 and that's with 45ish kontakt instances inside C8, plus Omnisphere, Massive and a few other non Kontakt bits, and VE Pro over 3 slaves. IMVHO, tempo detection makes it worth the entrance fee alone - damn fine feature that is. YMMV of course.


----------



## José Herring

Stephen Baysted @ Mon Dec 08 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Mon Dec 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> josejherring @ Mon Dec 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you'll have no problems.
> 
> I use to host 8 fully loaded Kontakts before I got VEPro and Cubase did fine even back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1 - absolutely. I think C7 was fine up to about 30 or so VIs, C8 will be a cinch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hugely better here with C8 at 512/768 than 7.5 and that's with 45ish kontakt instances inside C8, plus Omnisphere, Massive and a few other non Kontakt bits, and VE Pro over 3 slaves. IMVHO, tempo detection makes it worth the entrance fee alone - damn fine feature that is. YMMV of course.
Click to expand...


Do you have to keep ASIO guard off using VEPro5? If so, is there any performance improvement with it off?

I'm a heavy VEPro user now and all of my template is now on VEPro.

Either way I'm so in love with C8 that I'll get it but it would be nice to know if VEPro is working well or not.


----------



## NYC Composer

This looks like one of those rare instances where I'll be in at the .01 or .02 rev, with the hope that one of those includes a VEP fix or workaround.


----------



## maestro2be

Me to Larry. The moment I get the green light that VE Pro is all fine and running solid is the day I install the upgrade.


----------



## Guy Rowland

josejherring @ Mon Dec 08 said:


> Do you have to keep ASIO guard off using VEPro5? If so, is there any performance improvement with it off?



I think Stephen's doing better than me with VE Pro 5, but it's possibly worth me re-stating that I can run it ok with asioguard set low. I guesstimate performance that way is on a par with C7.5. Without asioguard, I think it's probably a little worse. That means that even with the current situation, it shouldn't stop work carrying on, there's just the promise of much better ahead.

Unfortunately for me, my other snag is more showstopping, which is my beloved Avid Artist won't autobank any more under C8 (ie follow on-screen track selection). I've tried bypassing all my preferences, re-inserting, checking all settings of course. Yet I know someone else on W8.1 has it working normally on the same version of EuCon. Driving me nuts.


----------



## José Herring

Too bad. 

Yes, I have to see some improvement in VEPro for me to switch. Too much of what I do these days relies on Cubase and VEPro working together flawlessly. 

You would think with so many of us running VEPro these days, that they would have worked it out before release. But, I guess the amount of bedroom pop and hip hop producers far out way the number of us silly orchestral people.


----------



## DaComposer

Lawson. @ Wed 03 Dec said:


> And I just bit the bullet and switched to DP8...


 Tell me more, tell me more, please - I'm very about to switch from Cubase to DP8 - after watching how Guy's DP handles gargantuic sessions without any hickup... But is it reliable in meaning MIDI and score working?


----------



## NYC Composer

josejherring @ Mon Dec 08 said:


> Too bad.
> 
> Yes, I have to see some improvement in VEPro for me to switch. Too much of what I do these days relies on Cubase and VEPro working together flawlessly.
> 
> You would think with so many of us running VEPro these days, that they would have worked it out before release. But, I guess the amount of bedroom pop and hip hop producers far out way the number of us silly orchestral people.



By a very wide margin.


----------



## IFM

Guy I can confirm in LP VEP also doesn't change its reported latency when moving to an armed track. You also confirmed something I thought. Because you have a buffer of 256 and LOW is also 256 you will not get any mutes. If you dropped your buffer to 128 and still were set to low I bet the mute happens. 
Chris


----------



## Guillermo Navarrete

Hello, 



davinwv @ 4th December 2014 said:


> Guillermo:
> 
> Does Cubase 8 Artist have the audio file tempo detection function, or is that feature only in Cubase 8 Pro?
> 
> Thanks,
> Davin



That is a Cubase Pro 8 feature only. 

Best regards,
GN


----------



## NYC Composer

Guillermo Navarrete @ Tue Dec 09 said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> davinwv @ 4th December 2014 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guillermo:
> 
> Does Cubase 8 Artist have the audio file tempo detection function, or is that feature only in Cubase 8 Pro?
> 
> Thanks,
> Davin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a Cubase Pro 8 feature only.
> 
> Best regards,
> GN
Click to expand...


Hi Guillermo- any hope on the VEP issue? I know we're the smaller segment of the Cubase market, but I have to believe lots of composer folks want to switch to C8- cheers.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Guy Rowland @ Tue Dec 09 said:


> Unfortunately for me, my other snag is more showstopping, which is my beloved Avid Artist won't autobank any more under C8 (ie follow on-screen track selection). I've tried bypassing all my preferences, re-inserting, checking all settings of course. Yet I know someone else on W8.1 has it working normally on the same version of EuCon. Driving me nuts.



Yay, got my autobanking back. When you launch Cubase, pressing shift / cntrl / alt is supposed to put you into a clean preferences mode. Turns out that it doesn't at all - my autobanking was still broken in this mode, but trashing the folder completely did the trick. I was then able to put back other preference files, just UserPreferences.xml turned out to be corrupt.

Whoa there, it's corrupted again. Something is corrupting the damn thing. Grrrrrrrr. Just spend 2 hours setting it all up. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

EDIT - nope, it was me being an idiot. Project and Mix windows need to be synced and they weren't. :oops:


----------



## jamwerks

Stephen Baysted @ Tue Dec 09 said:


> Hugely better here with C8 at 512/768 than 7.5 and that's with 45ish kontakt instances inside C8, plus Omnisphere, Massive and a few other non Kontakt bits, and VE Pro over 3 slaves.


So is C8+VEP working fine for you, as long as you stay at fairly high buffer settings?

I wonder also if it make any difference between W7, W8 or W8.1? I'd like to update, but need VEP to work no hiccups!


----------



## Stephen Baysted

jamwerks @ Wed Dec 10 said:


> Stephen Baysted @ Tue Dec 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hugely better here with C8 at 512/768 than 7.5 and that's with 45ish kontakt instances inside C8, plus Omnisphere, Massive and a few other non Kontakt bits, and VE Pro over 3 slaves.
> 
> 
> 
> So is C8+VEP working fine for you, as long as you stay at fairly high buffer settings?
> 
> I wonder also if it make any difference between W7, W8 or W8.1? I'd like to update, but need VEP to work no hiccups!
Click to expand...



Yeah - very well indeed. Those are my normal buffer settings so all is good.


----------



## jamwerks

Stephen Baysted @ Wed Dec 10 said:


> Yeah - very well indeed. Those are my normal buffer settings so all is good.


Nice to know! Guess I'll make the move :o


----------



## Stephen Baysted

jamwerks @ Wed Dec 10 said:


> Stephen Baysted @ Wed Dec 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah - very well indeed. Those are my normal buffer settings so all is good.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to know! Guess I'll make the move :o
Click to expand...


I'm on a Mac Pro here - Mounting Lion, so YMMV.


----------



## Guy Rowland

So had my first real day in anger with C8 today. You can get set up and perform tests forever, but in the end it's only when you get your hands dirty do you really get a feel for it. And I found that there is lots to like, and already I don't like the thought of going back to 7.5, which is telling.

That said, there are still teething problems. I had one crash when soloing and playing back a track (C7.5 was very stable). One project seemed to get confused with the mixer configurations - no matter what I selected, I couldn't get rid of the midi tracks. The windows are a bit weird - as well as the always-on-top bug, I had another situation where Cubase wouldn't release the VSTs in one of my monitors, and I couldn't see the files in explorer. I had one mad glitch where the CPU briefly went nutso for no apparent reason, the rest of the time playback and performance was excellent (asioguard on, low - no VE Pro in today's sessions, lots of VIs though).

I've put in an issue request that VCA tracks do not arm as a group, that's just plain wrong imo. At the least, linking arming should be an option in the link dialog.

But they're more niggles than big problems. My feeling is that if you're on 7.5 and basically happy with it, you may as well hold fire til the first couple of updates are out and save a bit of aggro. But if you can't wait and are happy to live with the early niggles, it's a great DAW.


----------



## NYC Composer

Guy Rowland @ Wed Dec 10 said:


> So had my first real day in anger with C8 today. You can get set up and perform tests forever, but in the end it's only when you get your hands dirty do you really get a feel for it. And I found that there is lots to like, and already I don't like the thought of going back to 7.5, which is telling.
> 
> That said, there are still teething problems. I had one crash when soloing and playing back a track (C7.5 was very stable). One project seemed to get confused with the mixer configurations - no matter what I selected, I couldn't get rid of the midi tracks. The windows are a bit weird - as well as the always-on-top bug, I had another situation where Cubase wouldn't release the VSTs in one of my monitors, and I couldn't see the files in explorer. I had one mad glitch where the CPU briefly went nutso for no apparent reason, the rest of the time playback and performance was excellent (asioguard on, low - no VE Pro in today's sessions, lots of VIs though).
> 
> I've put in an issue request that VCA tracks do not arm as a group, that's just plain wrong imo. At the least, linking arming should be an option in the link dialog.
> 
> But they're more niggles than big problems. My feeling is that if you're on 7.5 and basically happy with it, you may as well hold fire til the first couple of updates are out and save a bit of aggro. But if you can't wait and are happy to live with the early niggles, it's a great DAW.



Guy- Steinberg should hire and pay you.


----------



## Guy Rowland

NYC Composer @ Wed Dec 10 said:


> Guy- Steinberg should hire and pay you.



Haaa!

I swore I would wait for 8.0.1 or 2, but curiosity got the better of me. Not for the first time.

I'm not sure if I've just arranged things better or how much the new mixer and windowing has helped, but I'm really loving it. I have it full screen on one monitor, and I can get something like 30/40 channels on at once, very clear to see what they are, and routing, pres, inserts and sends all visible. I'm zipping around so much faster, I can see what's going on much quicker.


----------



## NYC Composer

Guy Rowland @ Wed Dec 10 said:


> NYC Composer @ Wed Dec 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guy- Steinberg should hire and pay you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haaa!
> 
> I swore I would wait for 8.0.1 or 2, but curiosity got the better of me. Not for the first time.
> 
> I'm not sure if I've just arranged things better or how much the new mixer and windowing has helped, but I'm really loving it. I have it full screen on one monitor, and I can get something like 30/40 channels on at once, very clear to see what they are, and routing, pres, inserts and sends all visible. I'm zipping around so much faster, I can see what's going on much quicker.
Click to expand...


Great news. I need clarity on the VEP thing though, as it's paramount for me.


----------



## Ah_dziz

Anybody having any issues with jBridged plugins? I never updated to altiverb 7 since it wasn't available in 64 bit on windows so it stayed j bridged. When I load it up in cubase 8 I get a j bridge error that says the process received an invalid buffer and then altiverb just doesn't pass audio. I would think that this has to do with ASIO guard trying to change latency on the fly. I went to the plugin manager and disabled ASIO guard but I still get the same error. That's a bummer for me but I think I'm gonna just make an IR of my go to IRs and load them into pristine space or maybe the Cubase onboard convolution reverb as a temporary workaround until I update Altiverb. I'm curious why setting ASIO guard to off still gives me this buffer error as the buffer should not be changing at all. If anybody has any tips for making a jBridged altiverb work bug free by playing with the jBridge settings I'd love to hear them.

Furthermore switching off "Plugin windows always on top" under preferences doesn't stick. Any time I close a plugin window then reopen it has "Always on top" checked again. Is this a known bug? I like leaving always on top off by default but it doesn't seem possible at the moment. Am I doing something wrong?

The performance and load time increases are great along with lots of the other new features. I'm getting some new pretty much crashes and a couple of buggy plugins are slightly more buggy than before. I'm putting a full list of reproducible bugs together to submit to steinberg support and maybe a bug thread on here. 

I'd love to hear any windows 7 64 bit users feedback on the bugs I've put in here and anything I might be doing wrong.

Thanks guys
JJ


----------



## Guy Rowland

Ah_dziz @ Thu Dec 11 said:


> Anybody having any issues with jBridged plugins? I never updated to altiverb 7 since it wasn't available in 64 bit on windows so it stayed j bridged. When I load it up in cubase 8 I get a j bridge error that says the process received an invalid buffer and then altiverb just doesn't pass audio. I would think that this has to do with ASIO guard trying to change latency on the fly. I went to the plugin manager and disabled ASIO guard but I still get the same error. That's a bummer for me but I think I'm gonna just make an IR of my go to IRs and load them into pristine space or maybe the Cubase onboard convolution reverb as a temporary workaround until I update Altiverb. I'm curious why setting ASIO guard to off still gives me this buffer error as the buffer should not be changing at all. If anybody has any tips for making a jBridged altiverb work bug free by playing with the jBridge settings I'd love to hear them.
> 
> Furthermore switching off "Plugin windows always on top" under preferences doesn't stick. Any time I close a plugin window then reopen it has "Always on top" checked again. Is this a known bug? I like leaving always on top off by default but it doesn't seem possible at the moment. Am I doing something wrong?
> 
> The performance and load time increases are great along with lots of the other new features. I'm getting some new pretty much crashes and a couple of buggy plugins are slightly more buggy than before. I'm putting a full list of reproducible bugs together to submit to steinberg support and maybe a bug thread on here.
> 
> I'd love to hear any windows 7 64 bit users feedback on the bugs I've put in here and anything I might be doing wrong.
> 
> Thanks guys
> JJ



The always on top thing is a right pain, and yes - a known bug and Steinberg have said they're on it. So hopefully a fix not far off. I don't have Altiverb - have you tried Cubase's own wrapper?


----------



## Ah_dziz

good idea. I haven't since version five where it was the crashingest thing ever. I'll give it a try. I was pretty bummed out when my recent mega template wouldn't load properly in my shiny new DAW. That freaking always on top bug is the worst. I now keep all my windows open at all times to so I can just maximize and minimize.

JJ


----------



## Guy Rowland

Interesting - just had someone tell me VE PRO 4 is working fine. That's annoying, don't think I use any of 5's new features, why did I upgrade?!


----------



## chrysshawk

Just a big thanks to you Guy for all this research and testing! I've spent my morning reading all through this thread and making notes for how I can test the C8/VEP configuration interface later today/this weekend. Maybe Steinberg support should offer you 0.99 EUR per minute 

Regards,
CH


----------



## Guy Rowland

chrysshawk @ Fri Dec 12 said:


> Just a big thanks to you Guy for all this research and testing! I've spent my morning reading all through this thread and making notes for how I can test the C8/VEP configuration interface later today/this weekend. Maybe Steinberg support should offer you 0.99 EUR per minute
> 
> Regards,
> CH



It's all self interest - a problem shared is a problem you have a slightly better chance of finding a workaround for. As the saying goes.

Support - I'll use the Avid PTHD model of £500pa or the low, low price of only £60 per incident. Nothing like a quick look at Avid to put other problems in perspective...


----------



## muziksculp

If VE-Pro 4 works fine with Cubase Pro 8, wouldn't this indicate that the issue is with VE-Pro 5, hence... VSL needs to fix it via an update ?

Hopefully they will fix it soon.


----------



## Daryl

muziksculp @ Fri Dec 12 said:


> If VE-Pro 4 works fine with Cubase Pro 8, wouldn't this indicate that the issue is with VE-Pro 5, hence... VSL needs to fix it via an update ?
> 
> Hopefully they will fix it soon.


We don't know that VEP4 works fine. The only way to know that would be to test both on the same machine with the same settings, because one person's "fine" is anothers "unusable". For proof of this just look at the many discussions about working at low latencies on this forum. :wink: 

Don't get me wrong, if VEP4 does work better than VEP5, that would be great, because it would give VSL a starting point to try to improve things, but I think there is no evidence that points towards jumping to this conclusion yet.

D


----------



## muziksculp

Daryl @ Fri Dec 12 said:


> muziksculp @ Fri Dec 12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If VE-Pro 4 works fine with Cubase Pro 8, wouldn't this indicate that the issue is with VE-Pro 5, hence... VSL needs to fix it via an update ?
> 
> Hopefully they will fix it soon.
> 
> 
> 
> We don't know that VEP4 works fine. The only way to know that would be to test both on the same machine with the same settings, because one person's "fine" is anothers "unusable". For proof of this just look at the many discussions about working at low latencies on this forum. :wink:
> 
> Don't get me wrong, if VEP4 does work better than VEP5, that would be great, because it would give VSL a starting point to try to improve things, but I think there is no evidence that points towards jumping to this conclusion yet.
> 
> D
Click to expand...


Yes, a valid statement. 

I would guess that most users are on VE-Pro 5 these days, so I'm not sure if we can easily evaluate, or come to a concrete conclusion regarding how well version 4 runs with Cubase Pro 8. 

I'm also curious if VSL will be introducing a new/improved VE-Pro 6 in the near future. 

Isn't it time they moved forward with their software products. (VE-Pro 6, VI-Pro 3, MIR...etc. ..) ?


----------



## jamwerks

Just realized that in C7.5, I've alway been working with the "ASIO-Guard" unchecked. I run about 15 instances of VEP5 (buffer of "3") on a slave. So if I understand correctly, C8 should cause me any problems...


----------



## Guy Rowland

It was a first hand private comment I had from someone re VE Pro 4 who's very well informed, but it would be terrific if someone here had VE Pro 4 that could confirm or otherwise. Honestly, I don't think I've yet used a feature in 5 that wasn't in 4. In truth, 5 has been a shade more flaky - sometimes a template will just freeze early on in the loading process. 4 was always rock solid.



jamwerks @ Fri Dec 12 said:


> Just realized that in C7.5, I've alway been working with the "ASIO-Guard" unchecked. I run about 15 instances of VEP5 (buffer of "3") on a slave. So if I understand correctly, C8 should cause me any problems...



Asioguard in C7.5, by fairly wide agreement, is well worth avoiding. Asioguard 2.0 is a different beast.


----------



## shapeshifter00

When I try to replace a patch in Kontakt I get the message if I want to replace and it ends up behind Kontakt and it is a pain to try and alt+tab and quickly click like a maniac to be able to change. Anyone know a way for me to get that message on top of Kontakt like it used to be in 7.5?


----------



## Guy Rowland

shapeshifter00 @ Sat Dec 13 said:


> When I try to replace a patch in Kontakt I get the message if I want to replace and it ends up behind Kontakt and it is a pain to try and alt+tab and quickly click like a maniac to be able to change. Anyone know a way for me to get that message on top of Kontakt like it used to be in 7.5?



It's a known bug. Deselecting "always on top" sort of works for some of these issues, But didn't help me in this case. 7.0.1 hopefully.


----------



## shapeshifter00

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 13 said:


> shapeshifter00 @ Sat Dec 13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I try to replace a patch in Kontakt I get the message if I want to replace and it ends up behind Kontakt and it is a pain to try and alt+tab and quickly click like a maniac to be able to change. Anyone know a way for me to get that message on top of Kontakt like it used to be in 7.5?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a known bug. Deselecting "always on top" sort of works for some of these issues, But didn't help me in this case. 7.0.1 hopefully.
Click to expand...


Thanks Guy, it does help for me but sadly I have to deactivate it every time since it seems to be that as default, hopefully it will be fixed in the future.


----------



## pablo1980

I have found that always on top goes to default if you have some of the cubase windows maximized.

The fix I ve found is to stretch the mix consoles, the video windows, etc, and not maximize them. Also in preferences disable plugins always on top.


----------



## shapeshifter00

Thanks for the tip Pablo, I will check that out.


Cheers


----------



## jamwerks

Just downloaded, no luck getting my 7.5 Key commands into 8! WTF? :shock: 

Saving them in 7.5 gives an .xlm file. Manual says it should be a .key file?

Any tips?

Also, are there any "this is what's different in C8, and how it works" documents or videos?


----------



## XR4

Not sure about your key commands...

But MacProVideo has a series on Cubase 8 changes/new features 

Jess


----------



## Whatisvalis

place the KC XML in the keycommands folder, then in Cubase just load them via KC pref.


----------



## ChristopherDoucet

I am sorry if my post is naive but doesn't turning off asio guard fix the probem?


----------



## shapeshifter00

I am crashing a lot when opening the mixer window. Anyone know any solution for that?


----------



## dedersen

Is it just me, or is the new track name font really, really horrible? I thought I'd get used to it, but I really wish there was a way to change it. Such an eyesore, I much prefer the 7.5 one.

Also, the track layout STILL doesn't seem to really work if you minimize the track height. They really need to add smaller version of the buttons/graphics to acommodate the minimum track height.

And pretty please, bring back a more stripped down version of the VST instruments rack.

Other than that, liking the new version.


----------



## Resoded

Have used it now and I'm impressed. No bugs, no crashes, no problems. This is the first time I'm able to use a new Cubase like this, usually it's riddled with problems.


----------



## shapeshifter00

Resoded @ Mon Dec 29 said:


> Have used it now and I'm impressed. No bugs, no crashes, no problems. This is the first time I'm able to use a new Cubase like this, usually it's riddled with problems.



Complete opposite experience for me, yes it works flawlessly more or less for me, but if I open the mixer window I get a crash error and if I do it enough times Cubase will crash completely. So as long as I don't open the mixer window it works flawlessly. Read something about it being the Slate plugins that could be the cause, but it still happens in my template after removing them. If I resolve that issue I will be very pleased.


----------



## José Herring

shapeshifter00 @ Mon Dec 29 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Dec 29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have used it now and I'm impressed. No bugs, no crashes, no problems. This is the first time I'm able to use a new Cubase like this, usually it's riddled with problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Complete opposite experience for me, yes it works flawlessly more or less for me, but if I open the mixer window I get a crash error and if I do it enough times Cubase will crash completely. So as long as I don't open the mixer window it works flawlessly. Read something about it being the Slate plugins that could be the cause, but it still happens in my template after removing them. If I resolve that issue I will be very pleased.
Click to expand...


Sounds like some sort of video driver conflict. Which video card are you using?


----------



## shapeshifter00

@Jose

I'm using a Zotac NVidia Geforce GTX 570, got the latest drivers and had the same issue with the drivers before the one I have now.


----------



## José Herring

Just taking a stab in the dark. Video card should be fine. Such and unusual problem that I couldn't even imagine what else it might be.


----------



## shapeshifter00

josejherring @ Mon Dec 29 said:


> Just taking a stab in the dark. Video card should be fine. Such and unusual problem that I couldn't even imagine what else it might be.



Yeah same, I googled it and found lots of others with the same issue and a spokesman from Steinberg believed it was Slate plugins that cause the issue, but I bet a lot of people use VCC in their template, so hard to say if that is the reason.


----------



## dcoscina

I find it a little sluggish. Takes a moment to start after I press the record button. Not as responsive as I'd hope. work flow is good on it however and I've gotten pretty accustomed to it coming from DP8.


----------



## José Herring

David are you on pc or mac?


----------



## resonate

here's VSL's Martin Saleteg reply about Cubase 8 / VEP5 buffer issue:

quote:
"We have had a look into the situation with C8 and VEP, and currently there is nothing we can do about it, more than report our findings to Steinberg. When switching tracks in Cubase, the plugin can receive a new buffer size, and since VEPro has an inherent latency which is buffer-dependent, VEPro will have to report its new latency to Cubase. Cubase immediately responds to this by reconfiguring its audio engine - causing a pause in audio.



Logic Pro (and other software which is using variable-sized buffers) do not immediately reconfigure the engine when switching tracks during playback, which allows for uninterrupted playback. We will recommend Steinberg to implement a similar scheme.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH"


----------



## Guy Rowland

resonate @ Mon Jan 05 said:


> here's VSL's Martin Saleteg reply about Cubase 8 / VEP5 buffer issue:
> 
> quote:
> "We have had a look into the situation with C8 and VEP, and currently there is nothing we can do about it, more than report our findings to Steinberg. When switching tracks in Cubase, the plugin can receive a new buffer size, and since VEPro has an inherent latency which is buffer-dependent, VEPro will have to report its new latency to Cubase. Cubase immediately responds to this by reconfiguring its audio engine - causing a pause in audio.
> 
> 
> 
> Logic Pro (and other software which is using variable-sized buffers) do not immediately reconfigure the engine when switching tracks during playback, which allows for uninterrupted playback. We will recommend Steinberg to implement a similar scheme.
> 
> --
> Martin Saleteg
> Software Developer
> Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH"



Thanks for the nod here. Although I'm not sure if VE Pro 4 really does work ok, I do find their reply plausible.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Folks - no-one is bothering to add even a +1 on the Steinberg issues thread. VSL have effectively folded their arms and said "it's Steinberg's problem", Steinberg haven't commented or put this issue in their Collected Issues subform. This means it won't be acted on, as it'll be perceived as a marginal problem. If you guys and gals want to see any action on this, do add a +1 here:

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 30&t=70250


----------



## NYC Composer

Actually Guy, my post is "waiting for approval."


----------



## Guy Rowland

NYC Composer @ Tue Jan 06 said:


> Actually Guy, my post is "waiting for approval."



Good man!  

Their new approval system seems a bit hit and miss - some stuff seems to get approved in minutes, others take days and days (on ordinary working weekdays).


----------



## NYC Composer

Guy Rowland @ Tue Jan 06 said:


> NYC Composer @ Tue Jan 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually Guy, my post is "waiting for approval."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good man!
> 
> Their new approval system seems a bit hit and miss - some stuff seems to get approved in minutes, others take days and days (on ordinary working weekdays).
Click to expand...


Back in the day, the Mac and PC forums were separate. We Mac people were anarchists who were dogged about major issues, so they killed us and lumped us in. Now posts have to be "approved". All of this is indicative as to why I don't post there anymore.


----------



## DynamicK

Guy Rowland @ Tue Jan 06 said:


> Folks - no-one is bothering to add even a +1 on the Steinberg issues thread. If you guys and gals want to see any action on this, do add a +1 here:
> http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 30&t=70250


 Done


----------



## rabiang

Cubase 8 crashes when i load an IRCAM FLUX plug-in. Anyone else have this problem? I'm on win 64-bit.


----------



## zolhof

Guy Rowland @ Tue Jan 06 said:


> Folks - no-one is bothering to add even a +1 on the Steinberg issues thread. VSL have effectively folded their arms and said "it's Steinberg's problem", Steinberg haven't commented or put this issue in their Collected Issues subform. This means it won't be acted on, as it'll be perceived as a marginal problem. If you guys and gals want to see any action on this, do add a +1 here:
> 
> http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 30&t=70250



We definitely need more people +1 this issue to get Steinberg's attention. Do your magic VI  (btw, my post is waiting for approval)

Kind regards,


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## Guy Rowland

Well done all, quite a few more today I see. Much more promising


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## Guillermo Navarrete

Hello all, 

Back from my holidays 8) I hope you all had a nice festive season. 
I have reported the issue, you can see the report number on the tittle of the thread and I have moved it to the collected issues forum. 

Best regards,
GN


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## Tanuj Tiku

The thread has been locked for some reason!


Tanuj.


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## NYC Composer

Hehehe.


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## Guy Rowland

Guillermo Navarrete @ Wed Jan 07 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Back from my holidays 8) I hope you all had a nice festive season.
> I have reported the issue, you can see the report number on the tittle of the thread and I have moved it to the collected issues forum.
> 
> Best regards,
> GN



I'll take this as good news, Guillermo, thanks. Do keep us posted with progress.


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## dgburns

Guillermo Navarrete @ Wed Jan 07 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Back from my holidays 8) I hope you all had a nice festive season.
> I have reported the issue, you can see the report number on the tittle of the thread and I have moved it to the collected issues forum.
> 
> Best regards,
> GN



Well this is good.After a very long night with C8 and asio guard,all I can say is it was not a pleasant experience with using VEP .I was thinking of going back to C7.5 until this stuff gets sorted.Don't know a out the rest of the folks here,but apart from render in place,C8 seems sluggish to me.
so very tired right now,will try and go plus one on the Steiny forum..


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## Guy Rowland

dgburns @ Wed Jan 07 said:


> will try and go plus one on the Steiny forum..



dg (and all) - I think the +1s have had the desired effect. The thread is now in collected issues and locked so you can't add any more. No bad thing though - I take it that means that they have all the info they need and it's an agreed problem. The thread's been there over a month but it only got into Collected Issues today - thanks to all who added their voice.


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## Harry

I'm a Sonar X3 user, considering a change to Cubase based on my increased useof orchestral type libraries requiring automation such as modulation, expression etc. I would be interested if anyone can advise what Cubase's strengths are specifically related to using orchestral librries such as Spirfire etc. 

The "Render in Place" fucntion has me a little confused. In Sonar X3 its possible to "bounce" midi tracks to audio, and can be single tracks or multiple tracks, or the entire project. Has this not been possible in Cubase before version 8? 

I presume the render in place means you could select groups, and so render stems of groups (as well as individual tracks)? 

Thanks


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## Guy Rowland

Hi Harry - here's how Bounce In Place works in Cubase https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIGJkgkQvWY

I used to be Sonar in the heady 8.5 days. It wasn't an easy transition, but very glad I've done it now. (I seem to have posted this a lot lately!) for me the primary reason to move was being able to use touch control motorized faders for normal mixing and midi CCs in a small footprint, and the only solution then and now is Cubase with an Avid Artist Mix.

Lots of folks love the Expression Maps in Cubase to help with articulation switching. I've tried several times now, and I just can't get on with them, so I'm still old school there.

Another big deal used to be VST3 support, but Sonar has caught up there.

One of the other main things for me though has been how Cubase uses real estate. Specifically, its terrific for working with narrow track heights - you can customise your track header exactly as you want it so your track names are clear and legible (and there's various other tricks too like visibility agents and folders for organising - not unique to Cubase all those of course). Sonar I find very big and blocky, even X3 - it's just not as suited to projects with high track counts it seems to me.


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## Harry

Thanks Guy. I've been diving a bit more deeper into the possibilities of Cubase 8 compared to Sonar X3. The Render in Place looks to have taken things a step further than Sonar. Re the "blocky" look, you are dead right, that was another reason for me to consider a change, when setting up large orchestral templates takes up lots of space. I'm sure there are aspects of Sonar I would prefer if I change, and I know would be painful in the beginning (as you experienced) if I did change -- lets see


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## NYC Composer

Guy- oddly enough, I've never dived into expression maps but recent workflow issues are pushing me there. Can you say why you don't get on with them?


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## Guy Rowland

NYC Composer @ Thu Jan 08 said:


> Guy- oddly enough, I've never dived into expression maps but recent workflow issues are pushing me there. Can you say why you don't get on with them?



I was afraid someone would ask me that. Folks were trying to convince me I was doing it wrong a year or so ago, so I went through it all again - and now I can't fully remember all my issues. Mainly in think it was how you move / change them in the controller lane. It seems wildy counter-intuitive to me, and I had it confirmed that I wasn't missing anything. I just want to grab an articulation and drag it where I want with the normal tool, but it's more convoluted than that. Frankly, doing exactly that with a normal keyswitch always seems a whole lot less hassle.


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## NYC Composer

Guy Rowland @ Thu Jan 08 said:


> NYC Composer @ Thu Jan 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guy- oddly enough, I've never dived into expression maps but recent workflow issues are pushing me there. Can you say why you don't get on with them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was afraid someone would ask me that. Folks were trying to convince me I was doing it wrong a year or so ago, so I went through it all again - and now I can't fully remember all my issues. Mainly in think it was how you move / change them in the controller lane. It seems wildy counter-intuitive to me, and I had it confirmed that I wasn't missing anything. I just want to grab an articulation and drag it where I want with the normal tool, but it's more convoluted than that. Frankly, doing exactly that with a normal keyswitch always seems a whole lot less hassle.
Click to expand...


I agree, but for things that don't have keyswitches..?


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## Guy Rowland

...then I don't use keyswitches.

I'm nothing if not simple.


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## Guy Rowland

Interesting post today from Martin at VSL:



> 'I am looking into this together with a Steinberg developer right now, and hopefully we can find a solution.
> 
> Until then, I can offer a workaround to disable ASIO Guard for VEPro manually. You can do this by going to:
> 
> [Menu] > Devices > Plug-in Manager > VST Instruments > Vienna Ensemble Pro > Click "i" for Plug-in information > Click to set ASIO Guard to Inactive.
> 
> Please perform this operation on ALL VEPro Instrument and Fx plugins. Then also Audio Input plugins will work properly.


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## Diffusor

Guy Rowland @ Thu Jan 08 said:


> NYC Composer @ Thu Jan 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guy- oddly enough, I've never dived into expression maps but recent workflow issues are pushing me there. Can you say why you don't get on with them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was afraid someone would ask me that. Folks were trying to convince me I was doing it wrong a year or so ago, so I went through it all again - and now I can't fully remember all my issues. Mainly in think it was how you move / change them in the controller lane. It seems wildy counter-intuitive to me, and I had it confirmed that I wasn't missing anything. I just want to grab an articulation and drag it where I want with the normal tool, but it's more convoluted than that. Frankly, doing exactly that with a normal keyswitch always seems a whole lot less hassle.
Click to expand...


Different strokes I guess. I find VST Expression far more intuitive and easy than regular keyswitches imo which were always kludgy. Mainly because each vst expression articulation has an identifying label and the keyswitch information is not notes in the editor that can be affected by midi editing. It's even easier to just select the notes you want and use the drop down menu to change articulation but I have no problem working super fast down in the Expression controller lanes; once you get used to it it becomes second nature. It was always a pain in the ass for me with the traditional keyswitches trying to remember all the different keyswitches especially when working with many different libraries; I would have to have cheat sheets for them all.


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## NYC Composer

Guy Rowland @ Mon Jan 12 said:


> Interesting post today from Martin at VSL:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'I am looking into this together with a Steinberg developer right now, and hopefully we can find a solution.
> 
> Until then, I can offer a workaround to disable ASIO Guard for VEPro manually. You can do this by going to:
> 
> [Menu] > Devices > Plug-in Manager > VST Instruments > Vienna Ensemble Pro > Click "i" for Plug-in information > Click to set ASIO Guard to Inactive.
> 
> Please perform this operation on ALL VEPro Instrument and Fx plugins. Then also Audio Input plugins will work properly.
Click to expand...


With as much as I use VEP, might as well just turn off ASIO Guard compketely, yanno?


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## Guy Rowland

NYC Composer @ Tue Jan 13 said:


> [With as much as I use VEP, might as well just turn off ASIO Guard compketely, yanno?



If you use it for pretty much everything, then yes (though I find it works for me in the lowest setting and keeps the CPU use more like C7 levels - without it at all it goes quite a bit higher. At least Steinberg and VSL are talking, hopefully they'll have a more robust fix before long.

Diffusor - different strokes indeed, most people love expression maps, I'm a rarity - they consistently do my head in. I've standardised so many of my keyswitches anyway, I can usually get around fairly simply old-school, and I just lasso my notes before any midi ops.


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## vicontrolu

Can anybody who purchased 8 download and run a 6.5 version? I am not using any of the new stuff + i am missing some things.


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## Jdiggity1

vicontrolu @ Tue 13 Jan said:


> Can anybody who purchased 8 download and run a 6.5 version? I am not using any of the new stuff + i am missing some things.



I can run versions 6 through to 8 no problem. Is that what you mean?
Or do you mean open a project that was saved in 6.5?


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## vicontrolu

No, i am asking if there´s some sort of Steinberg legacy download site where i can download the 6.5 installer and also if my Elicenser will allow me to run 6.5.


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## NYC Composer

Did you initially buy 6.5? I believe if you have it installed and 8 on your elicenser, you can just run 6.5 with nomproboems. I don't have 8 yet, but I switch between 5 and 6 once in a while with no problems.


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## Jonathan Moray

Sorry vicontrolu, I haven't seen anything like that. NYC Composer is right though; you can run two version of Cubase on the same computer no problem. But if you've bought Cubase 8 I haven't seen anywhere where you can download and use an older version of Cubase. Also I don't think that just because you've bought a Cubase 8 license it will work for older version of Cubase. Hopefully I'm wrong though.


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## Jdiggity1

My e-licenser only shows a license for Cubase Pro 8, yet I can run versions 6, 6.5, 7, 7.5, and 8 from it. So perhaps if you were able to obtain the installation discs for 6.5, you'd be ok.


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## vicontrolu

Hopefully Guillermo can chime in and let us know if its possible.

Thanks for the replies people!


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## Guy Rowland

Yes, agreed with the other replies - your 8 license will cover earlier versions, and you can have those versions as separate installs. You can get the update files from Steinberg (even some incredibly old versions), however the problem is getting the original install discs if you don't have them.


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## Guy Rowland

Latest from Guillermo from Steinberg on the VE Pro issue:



> Our developers are in contact with VSL developers and working in a solution. It will be fixed on a maintenance update, but it seems it is not going to be the next one.
> The current workaround is to manually disable ASIO Guard for VEPro in the VST Plugin Manager.



http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 31&t=70250


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## NYC Composer

Much as I hate those locked threads, your communication on this is very much appreciated, Guillermo (wherever you are!)


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## zolhof

Guy Rowland @ Sat Jan 17 said:


> Latest from Guillermo from Steinberg on the VE Pro issue:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our developers are in contact with VSL developers and working in a solution. It will be fixed on a maintenance update, but it seems it is not going to be the next one.
> The current workaround is to manually disable ASIO Guard for VEPro in the VST Plugin Manager.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 31&t=70250
Click to expand...


Great news! This also happens with low settings in my rig (AMD 8350, 32gb Kingston Savage, Samsung 840 EVO, M-audio fast track pro) and it even crashes Cubase with a loud buzz whenever I try to change Asio settings within a big project. Disabling Asio guard indeed fixes mute problem.

Glad it's being worked on.


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## tokatila

One thing I have to say, that when one tries VCA faders one doesn't want to go back being without. It's especially nice to group multi-mic libraries behind them (Close mic behind one fader across the section for example) and then cascade VCA faders to master VCA fader and control amount or close mic for the whole orchestra.


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