# Kontakt 6!



## lucor (Sep 6, 2018)

It's here!

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-6/


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## wcreed51 (Sep 6, 2018)

Any words from the Evil Dragon?


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## MA-Simon (Sep 6, 2018)

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat. But does it bring any new mapping functions? The creator tool seems more like... scripting stuff?


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## Ben (Sep 6, 2018)

Looks to me just like a rebranding. Same old GUI, some new synths and some new scripting features. Did I miss enything?


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## will_m (Sep 6, 2018)

Hmm, at first glance it looks kinda underwhelming. Was hoping for some GUI and library organisation changes.


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## reddognoyz (Sep 6, 2018)

enhanced fx sounds good to me.


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## magnumpraw (Sep 6, 2018)

Main drawback for me seems to be that the plugin name will be different and hence a complete reprogramming of my template using tons of Kontakt instances would need to happen. :(


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

That was the case with Kontakt 5 as well, though? It had a different plugin name from Kontakt 4.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 6, 2018)

I can't believe they haven't introduced some sort of grouping mechanism for managing your libraries into different sections.

I wonder if they have sorted out the ridiculous 'forced download' issue when adding their own libraries....


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

Yes, they have, that was added to Native Access 1.7.1 (ability to locate installed content libraries manually without redownloading) - wasn't related to Kontakt in any way.


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## DivingInSpace (Sep 6, 2018)

Crap, i really don't wanna shell out the upgrade price to use the newest libraries...


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## d.healey (Sep 6, 2018)

Looks like it's a release for developers more than users, however if users want libraries built with K6 they'll need to get it as those libraries won't work with older version of Kontakt.


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## muziksculp (Sep 6, 2018)




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## Michael Antrum (Sep 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Yes, they have, that was added to Native Access 1.7.1 (ability to locate installed content libraries manually without redownloading) - wasn't related to Kontakt in any way.




Thanks E.D. - you really are the NI oracle round here.


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## Leandro Gardini (Sep 6, 2018)

Kontakt is now so well developed and they have to keep selling it for old buyer.


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## Klangfarben (Sep 6, 2018)

No VST3? No GUI re-size? Selling Kontakt 6 by adding 3 libraries and a few new FX seems like a marketing ploy to cover for an underwhelming update. Lack of library content has never been one of Kontakt's larger issues.


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## N.Caffrey (Sep 6, 2018)

Klangfarben said:


> No VST3? No GUI re-size? Selling Kontakt 6 by adding 3 libraries and a few new FX seems like a marketing ploy to cover for an underwhelming update. Lack of library content has never been one of Kontakt's larger issues.



Kind of have to agree with you. Can't really say it looks like a major update from the user perspective.


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## jeremiahpena (Sep 6, 2018)

Quite anticlimactic, but Replika being added to the built in effects is super exciting. Kontakt will finally have a good delay, and Replika's Diffusion is my favorite tool for ambient pads/synths.


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## gsilbers (Sep 6, 2018)

same feeling. kinda underwhelming. Maybe there are better group round robin (non scirpting) features? 
Cool some of the new effects and wavetable sound interesting.
Would of been nice some better editing features... they sure like things tiny.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> Maybe there are better group round robin (non scirpting) features?



Nope. K6 is quite obviously a developer-focused update (and I like it for that). It will enable more interesting libraries to exist!


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## MA-Simon (Sep 6, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> Maybe there are better group round robin (non scirpting) features?


Nothing to be seen on the screenshots, so I think not. Sadly.

"a developer-focused update" I mean, maybe it is just me. But then why pay for it? It's the developers making NI money, per new poduct, per license etc.. So why is that not free. And why should normal users pay for those features? I will never understand that model. (But let's not discuss this, it has been talked to death already.)


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## procreative (Sep 6, 2018)

Pity the couldnt have made the Light Guide work directly in Kontakt without needing to use Komplete Kontrol software as a wrapper. Makes it useless for anyone using VEP.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

Looks like NI finally understands who after users is keeping Kontakt alive.


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## d.healey (Sep 6, 2018)

MA-Simon said:


> But then why pay for it?


So that you can use the new shiny 3rd party libraries that are built with it


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## whiskers (Sep 6, 2018)

now the million dollar question is to get K11U for cheap-ish, or wait for a deal on K12...hmm.


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## Consona (Sep 6, 2018)

Can it be used as an effect yet?


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## Polkasound (Sep 6, 2018)

If I buy this and install it when it comes out, I should then be able to run both Kontakt 5 and Kontakt 6 without having to rename dll/exe files, right?


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

Yep.


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## R. Soul (Sep 6, 2018)

Looks more like 5.9. 
I was expecting a new GUI at the least. 

I guess dev's will start using 6.0 and therefore forcing us users to update


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## Light and Sound (Sep 6, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> I guess dev's will start using 6.0 and therefore forcing us users to update



But...But... They gave us shiny new toys....? Surely you know the feeling! :D


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## willbedford (Sep 6, 2018)

d.healey said:


> So that you can use the new shiny 3rd party libraries that are built with it


But developers aren't going to develop for it until there are users.

Most of the improvements are for making developers' lives easier, rather than functionality that the end user will see. So K6 libraries aren't going to be any more shiny than K5 libraries, other than a few new effects.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

Don't forget the wavetable module. There is a LOT of stuff that can be done with it to embellish sample playback with some synthesis facilities. Phase warping modes alone can do a ton of interesting stuff.

There'll definitely be shiny libraries coming out for K6, have no doubt about that.


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## whiskers (Sep 6, 2018)

@EvilDragon - do you know if NI ever does combo sales on Komplete Kontrol and NI Komplete as a discounted bundle?


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

Never saw that happen.


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## kurtvanzo (Sep 6, 2018)

Polkasound said:


> If I buy this and install it when it comes out, I should then be able to run both Kontakt 5 and Kontakt 6 without having to rename dll/exe fildes, right?



Good question. Can we use both without having to replace hundreds of Kontakt 5 instances in Templetes?



procreative said:


> Pity the couldnt have made the Light Guide work directly in Kontakt without needing to use Komplete Kontrol software as a wrapper. Makes it useless for anyone using VEP.



If this is not the case (using Kontakt directly withlight guide) then what does this sentence mean fron the Kontakt 6 page (near bottom)?:

“KONTAKT also works seamlessly with the Light Guide on KOMPLETE KONTROL S-SERIES keyboards for one-to-one visual feedback.”

Either this means the above is true, OR nothing has changed and this statement means nothing besides what already exists. I suppose I don’t care that much since I’ve already changed all my templetes to KK with Kontakt inside. But now I might have to change ALL kontakt instances?? Crazy.

This could seriously stop me from buying newer Kontakt libraries. At least until their half price upgrade sale (spring-summer 2019?), where I’ll have to pay $49.50 to get the privledge of spending a week or more changing out templetes. I may just save myself the hassle and quit while I’m ahead. 

Yeah! Such an exciting upgrade. :/


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## Light and Sound (Sep 6, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> I guess dev's will start using 6.0 and therefore forcing us users to update



As a side note, a good _temporary _way for developers to protect themselves against piracy (to a small degree) is to use the latest version of Kontakt. Generally speaking, at least from what we have observed, piracy doesn't happen on a library until the version of Kontakt it supported on is also "hacked" (likely because the people stealing libraries are also stealing kontakt).


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

kurtvanzo said:


> Can we use both without having to replace hundreds of Kontakt 5 instances in Templetes?



VST: yes. AU: no.


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## MA-Simon (Sep 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Don't forget the wavetable module. There is a LOT of stuff that can be done with it to embellish sample playback with some synthesis facilities. Phase warping modes alone can do a ton of interesting stuff.


D: Somehow missed this... going to have to play with that now.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

Well not now, on Oct 1st.


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## whiskers (Sep 6, 2018)

one more question, @EvilDragon - those half off sales that usually occur, those are during summer right, not black friday? meaning that i'd be waiting a year for half off, correct?


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## wcreed51 (Sep 6, 2018)

Almost everyone else has caved in to support VST3. I assume it's the lack on Program Change that keeps NI defiantly resisting it?


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

Not just lack of program change, but lack of MIDI learn without terrible hacks Steinberg tells other developers not to do, yet they do those same hacks themselves in their own stuff. Heh.

The real reason is that it's just too different to VST2, and when you start from 15+ years old codebase, it doesn't make the work any easier or faster to do.


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## Andrew Aversa (Sep 6, 2018)

We're very eager to explore the possibilities with K6!


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## BezO (Sep 6, 2018)

whiskers said:


> @EvilDragon - do you know if NI ever does combo sales on Komplete Kontrol and NI Komplete as a discounted bundle?


I "saved" $200 on a 49S MK2/KU11 bundle either at the end of last year or the beginning of this year. They had similar deals on S61 MK2 & Maschine MK3 bundles as well.


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## Wolf68 (Sep 6, 2018)

Who did the AudioDemo 4/10 "The four Strings"? Sorry, but I havn't heard such a bad Demo since years. They must be deaf.


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## Nao Gam (Sep 6, 2018)

whiskers said:


> one more question, @EvilDragon - those half off sales that usually occur, those are during summer right, not black friday? meaning that i'd be waiting a year for half off, correct?


Generally no, they happen during Christmas, bf and spring as well, but in your case I'd say summer at the earliest cause komplete 12 is a new product
For the keyboards maybe earlier


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## MA-Simon (Sep 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Well not now, on Oct 1st.


Gah. Missed that too. Somehow not myself today. It's Folsom in Berlin right now. I guess I am a bit distracted.


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## whiskers (Sep 6, 2018)

Nao Gam said:


> Generally no, they happen during Christmas, bf and spring as well, but in your case I'd say summer at the earliest cause komplete 12 is a new product
> For the keyboards maybe earlier


OK, i think I'll have to map this all out on a spreadsheet and figure out a plan of attack.

Basically, I am not a fan of my current controller, and hoped to pick up both the S88 and the Komplete Software (which i do not have yet.) So i'd like to get both, but that's a hefty price tag, hence the looking for sales


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## Nao Gam (Sep 6, 2018)

whiskers said:


> OK, i think I'll have to map this all out on a spreadsheet and figure out a plan of attack.
> 
> Basically, I am not a fan of my current controller, and hoped to pick up both the S88 and the Komplete Software (which i do not have yet.) So i'd like to get both, but that's a hefty price tag, hence the looking for sales


http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/05/native-instruments-sales-on-komplete.html
Spreadsheet on this page

General rule: if you're looking for sth, another nerd has probably already got you covered.
Up there along with "If it sounds good it is good" & "You can't polish a turd"


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## procreative (Sep 6, 2018)

kurtvanzo said:


> If this is not the case (using Kontakt directly withlight guide) then what does this sentence mean fron the Kontakt 6 page (near bottom)?:
> 
> “KONTAKT also works seamlessly with the Light Guide on KOMPLETE KONTROL S-SERIES keyboards for one-to-one visual feedback.”



Probably means when loaded inside Komplete Kontrol. But when its released there should be a way to get the free player version to see. But personally doubt it. Hope I am wrong...

And one day maybe VSL will make VEP NKS compatible.


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## DANIELE (Sep 6, 2018)

procreative said:


> Probably means when loaded inside Komplete Kontrol. But when its released there should be a way to get the free player version to see. But personally doubt it. Hope I am wrong...
> 
> And one day maybe VSL will make VEP NKS compatible.



I'd like it too. I don't understand why I need two softwares to get light guide working.

I have an S88 and I'd like to avoid KK to get this.

The new S88 seems good but I was hoping for more controls, I like the two displays but I have to understand how to use them, I stay with the "old" one for now.


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## LFO (Sep 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Looks like NI finally understands who after users is keeping Kontakt alive.



Ahhhh Steve. Sooo much material, so little time.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> I don't understand why I need two softwares to get light guide working.



Because it's an abstraction. Rather than needing to introduce the whole inner workings of how to interact with the hardware in each and every product that needs to use those hardware features like LightGuide, each product only has to communicate simple messages to KK, which then does the heavy lifting. Things are centralized like that, which is a good practice overall, as it saves on development time (especially important for 3rd party VST developers). At least that's how I see it.


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## gregjazz (Sep 6, 2018)

Really excited about this! There are a bunch of developer-focused features that are going to result in some cool advancements for Kontakt-based libraries. And the new effects sound really nice, especially the new algorithmic reverbs and delays.


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## Quasar (Sep 6, 2018)

gregjazz said:


> Really excited about this! There are a bunch of developer-focused features that are going to result in some cool advancements for Kontakt-based libraries. And the new effects sound really nice, especially the new algorithmic reverbs and delays.



Had Native Instruments not betrayed their end-users with their Native Access malware and forced online activation, I would be enthusiastically excited about all of this too...

...But as it is, this is just another sad day in the devolution of digital-age privacy & autonomy rights, as there is now going to be a version of Kontakt that I cannot ethically justify purchasing, however much I still wish I could remain and grow in the NI ecosystem.

But I'm glad that people who can live with the new status quo, who are able to perceive it as other than Orwellian and fascist can be happy about Kontakt 6. I wish I could see it in a positive way too. But I can't without being intellectually dishonest. Believe me, I have tried...


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## MA-Simon (Sep 6, 2018)

Quasar said:


> Had Native Instruments not betrayed their end-users with their Native Access malware and forced online activation, I would be enthusiastically excited about all of this too...
> 
> ...But as it is, this is just another sad day in the devolution of digital-age privacy & autonomy rights, as there is now going to be a version of Kontakt that I cannot ethically justify purchasing, however much I still wish I could remain and grow in the NI ecosystem.
> 
> But I'm glad that people who can live with the new status quo, who are able to perceive it as other than Orwellian and fascist can be happy about Kontakt 6. I wish I could see it in a positive way too. But I can't without being intellectually dishonest. Believe me, I have tried...


You can't just let that rest can you haha. :D *Hands you a german beer*


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Sep 6, 2018)

Sure, from a user perspective it's surprisingly underwhelming but as someone who has been dipping their toes in the KSP waters a few times, each time running away screaming because of the (comparably) weak and frustrating development environment, the new creator tools is an exciting step. I've thought for a few years "all I want from Kontakt 6 is better developer tools", so I'm in!


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## Nao Gam (Sep 6, 2018)

Quasar said:


> Had Native Instruments not betrayed their end-users with their Native Access malware and forced online activation, I would be enthusiastically excited about all of this too...
> 
> ...But as it is, this is just another sad day in the devolution of digital-age privacy & autonomy rights, as there is now going to be a version of Kontakt that I cannot ethically justify purchasing, however much I still wish I could remain and grow in the NI ecosystem.
> 
> But I'm glad that people who can live with the new status quo, who are able to perceive it as other than Orwellian and fascist can be happy about Kontakt 6. I wish I could see it in a positive way too. But I can't without being intellectually dishonest. Believe me, I have tried...


Oh boy.. wait till AI & bionanotech start infiltrating our everyday lives. And no this is not science fiction talk.


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## Montisquirrel (Sep 6, 2018)

Some people here write that Kontakt 6 is only interesting for the developers. But you should think further. Because it is interesting for developers it will be very interesting for users, too. Just wait some more month


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 6, 2018)

Well. Looks terribly like something I don't need one bit, but will be forced to pay for at some point.


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## germancomponist (Sep 6, 2018)

Definitely my next buy.


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## RandomComposer (Sep 6, 2018)

Since the general consensus is that there's little reason to upgrade except for when Kontakt 6 libraries come out - when would be the best time to upgrade to Kontakt 6? Are there likely to be sales to aim for?


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 6, 2018)

there will be sale sooner or later.


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## jamwerks (Sep 6, 2018)

So after all this time, is it still the same codebase?


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## DANIELE (Sep 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Because it's an abstraction. Rather than needing to introduce the whole inner workings of how to interact with the hardware in each and every product that needs to use those hardware features like LightGuide, each product only has to communicate simple messages to KK, which then does the heavy lifting. Things are centralized like that, which is a good practice overall, as it saves on development time (especially important for 3rd party VST developers). At least that's how I see it.



Ok, it could be but some features are strictly correlated like light guide for example. To say that in simple terms Kontakt has coloured keys, NI keyboards has coloured leds. I think it should be simple to manage speaking of code.

I don't know their code behind the curtains but I think a thing like this shouldn't be CPU demanding and should be inside Kontakt without the need of using some wrapper.

Anyway the two displays of new S88 are dedicated to KK or can be used or customized for other things?


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## Mike Fox (Sep 6, 2018)

I'm just gonna wait for the KU12 update half off sale.


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## kurtvanzo (Sep 6, 2018)

RandomComposer said:


> Since the general consensus is that there's little reason to upgrade except for when Kontakt 6 libraries come out - when would be the best time to upgrade to Kontakt 6? Are there likely to be sales to aim for?



Half price upgrade sale- usually in spring or summer- half price upgrade on kontakt (which would be 49.50 instead of 99) and Komplete. That’s the soonest I’ll jump in, and even then just for newer libraries- if I need one.

Thanks Evil Dragon for killing my nightmare senario of replacing all those kontakt 5 instances. Luckily I have major problems with the AU version of Kontakt 5 and switched everything to VST (inside KK, inside VE Pro) a long time ago. I stopped using AU for anything.

I understand why developers would be excited, but remember, new devloper tools may take a while to iron out the ruff spots, and most fx on kontakt I’ll still be turning off as a user (until lexicon or altiverb become a partner  ).

I expected a lot more from an update that was said to be a huge leap forward and has been delayed for many, many, many months.

Is this really the software they had such problems with they had to put off releasing it again and again? This seems more like an incrimental update to Kontakt 5 that they decided to call Kontakt 6 for monetary and political reasons (public perception after promising Kontakt 6 and not delivering for so long). No?

Is this the same version they’ve been laboring over for years? If you tell me it is E.D. i believe you. But it’s a hard sell considering how close it seems to Kontakt 5.


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## zolhof (Sep 6, 2018)

Hey Mario @EvilDragon , how's memory usage in K6? At the moment, every new Kontakt instance adds something like 90mb of RAM, so can we expect lower numbers? If you're allowed to talk about it, I'd love to know, as I'm in the process of rebuilding my template and could plan ahead my upgrade - in case there's any significant improvement here. Thanks!


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## NoamL (Sep 6, 2018)

What features did people want in K6 anyway? Organizational/logistical stuff I assume? I only use it as a host for 3rd party VIs so it's difficult for me to imagine what's missing. As a developer-focused update, if it makes devs happy, it makes me happy


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 6, 2018)

NoamL said:


> What features did people want in K6 anyway? Organizational/logistical stuff I assume? I only use it as a host for 3rd party VIs so it's difficult for me to imagine what's missing. As a developer-focused update, if it makes devs happy, it makes me happy



Yeah, the organisational stuff - I cannot believe they haven't done that. From a programming perspective it must be one of the simplest improvements to implement - and one of the most useful to end users.

Sigh....


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

DANIELE said:


> To say that in simple terms Kontakt has coloured keys, NI keyboards has coloured leds. I think it should be simple to manage speaking of code.



Well, it's not. 



mikeybabes said:


> From a programming perspective it must be one of the simplest improvements to implement - and one of the most useful to end users.



Not when you have to deal with almost 2 decades of legacy code with a GUI framework that is a horrible PITA to use. The whole GUI shell needs rewriting from scratch with modern frameworks and that's a _huge_ amount of work, as there is a lot of stuff that can break internally if they're not careful enough. And they don't want to fuck it up, so... we wait.


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## MariosParadisis (Sep 6, 2018)

Really excited for Wavetable synthesis! I cannot remember how many years I prayed for some type of synthesis within Kontakt. If the implementation is good it may change the future Sample Libraries a lot. Let's wait and see!


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

zolhof said:


> Hey Mario @EvilDragon , how's memory usage in K6? At the moment, every new Kontakt instance adds something like 90mb of RAM, so can we expect lower numbers? If you're allowed to talk about it, I'd love to know, as I'm in the process of rebuilding my template and could plan ahead my upgrade - in case there's any significant improvement here. Thanks!



Did a little test for you in Reaper (numbers from Task Manager->Details looking at Reaper's process private working set memory).

Reaper fresh load: 94 MB RAM
Loaded K5.8.1: 243 MB RAM
Loaded another K5.8.1: 304 MB RAM

Reaper 2nd fresh load: 94 MB RAM
Loaded K6 beta: 240 MB RAM
Loaded another K6: 304 MB RAM

So it's about the same. All of the tests were with Kontakt's GUI closed, this also saves some memory.


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## J-M (Sep 6, 2018)

Mike Fox said:


> I'm just gonna wait for the KU12 update half off sale.



May I join?


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## gregjazz (Sep 6, 2018)

NoamL said:


> What features did people want in K6 anyway? Organizational/logistical stuff I assume? I only use it as a host for 3rd party VIs so it's difficult for me to imagine what's missing. As a developer-focused update, if it makes devs happy, it makes me happy


As developers take advantage of the goodies in Kontakt 6, be that the new effects or new scripting capabilities, I think it will make the benefits of upgrading to Kontakt 6 more obvious. Of course, if the library licenses the Kontakt Player, upgrading isn't imperative, unless you need to be able to edit the instrument (provided that it's unlocked).

If the additions to Kontakt are any indication of NI's plans for the future, I like where things are headed: revamping the internal effects with new ones, new waveform source options, implementing scripting requests from developers, and so forth.


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## Klangfarben (Sep 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Not when you have to deal with almost 2 decades of legacy code with a GUI framework that is a horrible PITA to use. The whole GUI shell needs rewriting from scratch with modern frameworks and that's a _huge_ amount of work, as there is a lot of stuff that can break internally if they're not careful enough. And they don't want to fuck it up, so... we wait.



Yeah, it's not like Kontakt 5 was released in 2011 or anything. I can see why only having 7 years to update the GUI would be a little rushed for them. Or only having a decade to adopt the VST3 SDK released in 2008...


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

You don't know the whole story, so let's keep it at that. VST3 itself has had a very rough ride as well, and it still isn't really being adopted as fast as Steiberg wants it to, that should be telling...

There's one thing I think I can say, though, which is something anyone can really deduce. One of things that happened in those 7 years is Battery 4, and it was a lot of work. And Battery 4 is basically reskinned and repurposed Kontakt, so the same team is working on it (just check the names in the credits). And when that same one team works on Battery 4, they can't really work on Kontakt updates at the same pace simultaneously.


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## Klangfarben (Sep 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> You don't know the whole story, so let's keep it at that. Not so cool stuff happened, details are under NDA. VST3 itself has had a very rough ride as well, and it still isn't really being adopted as fast as Steiberg wants it to, that should be telling...


 
Yeah, believe me I get that part. And I know some of the NI guys so it's not like I'm trying to badmouth the entire company. But let's just say from an informed user perspective they haven't exactly given maximum effort on this stuff. End users have been requesting these things on near a daily basis for years and years. So when you say for now we wait, the question becomes how long? Another decade? Kind of indefensible in this day and age for a company with that many resources.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

Yeah, I do understand the user perspective as well, I'm not _just_ a developer.  All I can say is that they're painfully aware of it, but priorities had to shift multiple times due to various reasons. Nonetheless, it will happen.


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## Klangfarben (Sep 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Yeah, I do understand the user perspective as well, I'm not _just_ a developer.  All I can say is that they're painfully aware of it, but priorities had to shift multiple times due to various reasons. Nonetheless, it will happen.


Always appreciate your insight and knowledge ED


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## desert (Sep 6, 2018)

4 years ago I started looking up when K6 would come out before Buying K5.

Good thing I didn’t fucking wait. This is more anticlimactic than the release of the iPhone 6s


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## jamwerks (Sep 6, 2018)

Guess they decided that making the gui look different would have more negative aspects than positive ones.


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## germancomponist (Sep 6, 2018)

And when new libs need K6, you all buy it.  :-D


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## Leo (Sep 6, 2018)

Really nice!

it first happened with VSL, then with Spitfire and today screwed up Kontakt. 

for God's mercy why is still GUI SO fcking small??! today we have 4k monitors, 
first 8k comes, when finally arriving 12K (I think rather than Kontakt 7)
the future (the next decade) will be as follows
wow wow big big headliner comming:

kontakt 7


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## X-Bassist (Sep 6, 2018)

germancomponist said:


> And when new libs need K6, you all buy it.  :-D



And the "state the obvious" award goes to... if only the Oscars were so easy.


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## Leon Portelance (Sep 6, 2018)

just noticed that Kontakt 6 will be here in October. $99 upgrade fee,


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## Strezov (Sep 6, 2018)

@EvilDragon can you tell me whether there will be changes to the mapping structrure, like will there be a possibility for an equal-power xfade on loops?


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## keepitsimple (Sep 6, 2018)

Well i hope Kontakt 6 cures the Placebo effect i have regarding Kontakt not being the ideal host for piano samples.


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## emanon (Sep 6, 2018)

A built-in debugger is so nice! Not sure what it would be capable of, though it would be 1,000% better than having nothing.
And I saw some mention to LUA somewhere... wondering if LUA is going to be a scripting langauge. (then it'll be a wonderland!)
Assuming those and other features would ease the development pain, K6 will attract more developers!

BTW, didn't see something especially interesting in Komplete 12 Ultimate (from K10U), checked the update price for Kontakt 6 only to find there's no such option for the owners of Komplete...
IOW, I have a K5 license as part of my Komplete license. Do I have to buy Kontakt 6 new (or as crossgrade from some third vendor libraries), as if I'm a new user?


----------



## bigcat1969 (Sep 6, 2018)

Yup liking the built in debugger since I am good at making bugs and seemingly some sort of autoputting of samples if they are name correctly if I read that right. Any ideas about the new reverbs? Are they better than convo?


----------



## Przemek K. (Sep 6, 2018)

Seems like a nice update but the question remain s if its worth it, at least for now. At least they did add Replika delay and 2 new hopefully good sounding reverb units.


----------



## gregjazz (Sep 6, 2018)

bigcat1969 said:


> Any ideas about the new reverbs? Are they better than convo?


They're more flexible, that's for sure. Convolution reverbs still have their place, but having nice sounding options for built-in algorithmic reverbs is handy.


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2018)

Strezov said:


> @EvilDragon can you tell me whether there will be changes to the mapping structrure, like will there be a possibility for an equal-power xfade on loops?



There were no changes in those areas.



Leo said:


> today we have 4k monitors,
> first 8k comes, when finally arriving 12K



Personally I think this is all crap. Your eyes don't work like that.


----------



## kavinsky (Sep 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> So it's about the same. All of the tests were with Kontakt's GUI closed, this also saves some memory.


I've always had this problem that Kontakt starts rescanning the quickload every time you close/open the GUI, it takes quite some time to be fully loaded
So I have a habit of leaving at least one instance of Kontakt UI open at all times, tucked in somewhere on the second screen. Which prevents any new instance from rescanning quickload
Have they managed to fix this by any chance?


----------



## DANIELE (Sep 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Well, it's not.
> 
> 
> 
> Not when you have to deal with almost 2 decades of legacy code with a GUI framework that is a horrible PITA to use. The whole GUI shell needs rewriting from scratch with modern frameworks and that's a _huge_ amount of work, as there is a lot of stuff that can break internally if they're not careful enough. And they don't want to fuck it up, so... we wait.



Ok understood. Well, it's a pity.


----------



## Nao Gam (Sep 7, 2018)

Leo said:


> Really nice!
> 
> it first happened with VSL, then with Spitfire and today screwed up Kontakt.
> 
> ...


Like evildragon said, there will never be a screen more than 4k in the mainstream cause your eyes can't spot the extra improvements.
Unless it's a huge screen



emanon said:


> A built-in debugger is so nice! Not sure what it would be capable of, though it would be 1,000% better than having nothing.
> And I saw some mention to LUA somewhere... wondering if LUA is going to be a scripting langauge. (then it'll be a wonderland!)
> Assuming those and other features would ease the development pain, K6 will attract more developers!
> 
> ...


Same here, really weird maybe it will get fixed by the time K6 is available?


----------



## evilantal (Sep 7, 2018)

kavinsky said:


> I've always had this problem that Kontakt starts rescanning the quickload every time you close/open the GUI, it takes quite some time to be fully loaded
> So I have a habit of leaving at least one instance of Kontakt UI open at all times, tucked in somewhere on the second screen. Which prevents any new instance from rescanning quickload
> Have they managed to fix this by any chance?



That is indeed a PITA.
Hoping for this as well...

Would be better if they added a manual library refresh button like in Omnisphere. It's just a bunch of hyperlinks on a logical drive anyway.


----------



## wcreed51 (Sep 7, 2018)

Instead of badgering developers by ending support for VST2, You'd think Steinberg would make the changes to VST3 that would have them WANTING to adopt...


----------



## nordicguy (Sep 7, 2018)

Leo said:


> today we have 4k monitors,
> first 8k comes, when finally arriving 12K





EvilDragon said:


> There were no changes in those areas.
> Personally I think this is all crap. Your eyes don't work like that.


I wonder if at some point one could rent an IMAX theatre to do some DAW editing...


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## Strezov (Sep 7, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> There were no changes in those areas.



Thanks! Hopefully there will be in the future. Cheers


----------



## bosone (Sep 7, 2018)

i suppose the kontakt 6 factory library will be the same, isnt' it?


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## babylonwaves (Sep 7, 2018)

Nao Gam said:


> Like evildragon said, there will never be a screen more than 4k in the mainstream cause your eyes can't spot the extra improvements.
> Unless it's a huge screen


i's about screen estate, not resolution. one is overview, the other one is detail. for people sitting in front of a DAW, more estate is a big bonus. and by the way: the bigger iMacs already have 5k.


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 7, 2018)

wcreed51 said:


> Instead of badgering developers by ending support for VST2, You'd think Steinberg would make the changes to VST3 that would have them WANTING to adopt...



Can't agree more with that statement.



bosone said:


> i suppose the kontakt 6 factory library will be the same, isnt' it?



Yep, but you do get 3 new libraries along with it (similarly how you got Retro Machines II with K5).



babylonwaves said:


> and by the way: the bigger iMacs already have 5k.



They're quite niche, though. I wouldn't ever use one as a DAW even if somebody paid me to use it.


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## TheUnfinished (Sep 7, 2018)

Jesus Christ! Not THAT f$&*ing synthwave artwork again???!!!


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## Robym (Sep 7, 2018)

I wonder if the debugger will debug/work/load only script for K6. In other words it would be great if i could compile a script in Sublime, paste it in the debugger, debug it then compile it and finally paste it in K5.5...
Hopefully.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 7, 2018)

Robym said:


> I wonder if the debugger will debug/work/load only script for K6. In other words it would be great if i could compile a script in Sublime, paste it in the debugger, debug it then compile it and finally paste it in K5.5...
> Hopefully.



Yep, you'll be able to do that, but you'd need to do your debugging from K6, since CT connects to an opened Kontakt instance (standalone or plugin).


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## Leo (Sep 7, 2018)

nordicguy said:


> I wonder if at some point one could rent an IMAX theatre to do some DAW editing...


OK I have 40' monitor with 4k and Kontakt is for my eyes to small. Almost all new software I use support rescaling.
(name of a few Falcon, U-he, Kescape etc.- is this company for you thickheaded?) 
is it really so special that I want to see the monitor well and I want to read text legibly?


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## EvilDragon (Sep 7, 2018)

Get a 40" non-4K monitor?


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## Leo (Sep 7, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Get a 40" non-4K monitor?


funny... witty, but admit yourself, how long we are waiting for K6? don't know clear but maybe 6 years?
And all the time what I waiting I prayed that these NI boys put this poor rescaling functions...
But the god punished me. K6 have nothing for me yet, some 3 instruments with exactly old same lib? 
developer things are thing for Developers, not for end users.. so sorry


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 7, 2018)

Please read my previous posts on the topic. I understand the user perspective, I am a user as well (although I don't work with HiDPI as I see it as completely unnecessary as far as I'm concerned). The truth is that updating an almost 20 years old product to modern UI standards is far from easy, and far from fast. So there'll be more waiting. No, 6/7 years is not enough, especially when the whole team has to stop all development on Kontakt in order to do that long awaited Battery 4 update (which DID get a newer GUI - again not scalable, though). Stuff happens.


----------



## Leo (Sep 7, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Please read my previous posts on the topic. I understand the user perspective, I am a user as well (although I don't work with HiDPI as I see it as completely unnecessary as far as I'm concerned). The truth is that updating an almost 20 years old product to modern UI standards is far from easy, and far from fast. So there'll be more waiting. No, 6/7 years is not enough, especially when the whole team has to stop all development on Kontakt in order to do that long awaited Battery 4 update (which DID get a newer GUI - again not scalable, though). Stuff happens.


yeh I read yours post, nice reading btw.. I not attacking you, I'm just whining on NI guys... I have battery on my installation Hdd, but for my purposes is totally useless. 
Why anyone invest time on minority thing (like battery) and forget on the main software (kontakt) that the developer made famous?


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## EvilDragon (Sep 7, 2018)

Battery is actually quite popular in music production circles other than orchestral mockups and film work (which is mainly what VI-C is based on). It's not a minor thing. And the simple truth is that Battery *is in fact Kontakt*, just repurposed and reskinned. So the same team works on both, but not simultaneously. Sometimes one gets the attention, sometimes the other.


----------



## gsilbers (Sep 7, 2018)

Leo said:


> yeh I read yours post, nice reading btw.. I not attacking you, I'm just whining on NI guys... I have battery on my installation Hdd, but for my purposes is totally useless.
> Why anyone invest time on minority thing (like battery) and forget on the main software (kontakt) that the developer made famous?



i dont have the numbers... so i mightbe talking out my ass... but i dont think kontakt is the big shot product like in other music genres as it is in media music. So doing smaller , yet useful updates might be a good idea. there is literally no real competition so no reason to do drastic updates.
i sure wanted apple to do something with redmatica stuff... that would of made sampler competition interesting.


----------



## bigcat1969 (Sep 7, 2018)

How much of NI is focused on orchestral and film and how much on other genres? It seems to be moving away from orchestral in many ways (at least 50 based on expansions).


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## EvilDragon (Sep 7, 2018)

NI was never really focused on orchestral and film - that's what 3rd party developers for Kontakt did. NI was (and still is) always mostly about electronic music.


----------



## Nao Gam (Sep 7, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> NI was never really focused on orchestral and film - that's what 3rd party developers for Kontakt did. NI was (and still is) always mostly about electronic music.


A̶n̶d̶ ̶s̶u̶c̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶m̶o̶n̶e̶y̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶b̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶k̶e̶y̶b̶o̶a̶r̶d̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶s̶o̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶d̶e̶s̶i̶g̶n̶


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## bigcat1969 (Sep 7, 2018)

Thanks ED. I played with all the Kontakt stuff and kind of forgot that NI had been doing synths and stuff for just as long. I really have to figure out how Battery and all those synth things that come with KU work. I think I broke Reaktor. I tried synths about 5 years ago, but was too stupid to get that scene and then got seduced by those digital pianos and violins and such. Oh you seductive samples. I'm daft enough to have been another Daft Punk and I look great with a trash bag over my head! What might have been...


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## Geoff Grace (Sep 7, 2018)

If the Kontakt 6 debugger helps developers ship products with fewer bugs, then the products I buy will be more likely to work as advertised. 

Therefore, I say that this is a user update after all!

Best,

Geoff


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## Geoff Grace (Sep 7, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> VST: yes. AU: no.


AAX?

Best,

Geoff


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## The Darris (Sep 7, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Yep.


In reference to the question asked about running K5 and K6 without having to rename files. NI calls this an "update" cost based on my owning of K5. I just want to make sure it isn't downloading an .exe that is designed to replace K5. Is that correct?


----------



## zimm83 (Sep 7, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> NI was never really focused on orchestral and film - that's what 3rd party developers for Kontakt did. NI was (and still is) always mostly about electronic music.



I really want to thank Evildragon for your help and answers. You know very well kontakt and i learn many things from your answers.
I have one last question : it is about the maschine soft included in the A series : can we open a 3rd part vst MULTI in one track of maschine or only nki ?
I see all the walkthroughs and there is ony one nki per track. But can i open an nkm in one track ?

And the same question for komplete kontrol : Can i open a multi in one instance of KK ?

Thank you very much. I ask that because i work always with nkm ( layer /velocity switch etc in omni mode...).
It would be cool to be able to record in maschine nkm patterns. Really.

It must be possible as we can open one instance of kontakt in a maschine track. So open a nki or nkm.....
For KK, maybe not....


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## EvilDragon (Sep 7, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> AAX?



I'm not sure if AAX has plugin version inheritance feature that AU has.



The Darris said:


> I just want to make sure it isn't downloading an .exe that is designed to replace K5. Is that correct?



That is correct. Like all major versions until now, K6 installs side by side instead of overwriting.



zimm83 said:


> it is about the maschine soft included in the A series : can we open a 3rd part vst MULTI in one track of maschine or only nki ?
> I see all the walkthroughs and there is ony one nki per track. But can i open an nkm in one track ?



Yes, you can (you click on the "pencil" button in the plugin window's top left corner to get to the full Kontakt GUI), but only if you load the multi from Kontakt itself. Maschine's browser will just show you instruments and snapshots, not multis.

In KK, this is a "+" button.


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## zimm83 (Sep 7, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Yes, you can (you click on the "pencil" button in the plugin window's top left corner to get to the full Kontakt GUI), but only if you load the multi from Kontakt itself. Maschine's browser will just show you instruments and snapshots, not multis.
> 
> In KK, this is a "+" button.




Thank you VERY much for the answers ! That' s great. Can't wait to pick up A61 keyboard with maschine and KK softwares. Great deal. 

Thank you !


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## Geoff Grace (Sep 8, 2018)

zimm83 said:


> I really want to thank Evildragon for your help and answers.


+1

You're more helpful than the paid tech support employees for most companies. Thanks for all the generous help you've given in these threads!

Best,

Geoff


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## HardyP (Sep 8, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> You're more helpful than the paid tech support employees for most companies


NI really should give him a dime or two, since he is one of the(ir) best "representatives", even compared to other Companies! Giving great advice, explaining the meaning of an (at first look) awkward behaviour, clearly separating between his own opinion and facts, e.g.
I think anyone of the devs should look into that approach and learn from it, how he handles questions, fears, opinions of customers (even if they are not his own)!


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## EvilDragon (Sep 8, 2018)

Hey, I get my share of free NFRs from NI.


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## Brian2112 (Sep 8, 2018)

Wonder if there are any improvements to quick load. Like auto refresh of directories.


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## zeng (Sep 9, 2018)

I really would like to get some library organization features with K6. At I least we should be able to categorize libraries like we can do with quick-load section. But my question is; If I don't upgrade to K6 from K5, will I not be able to load upcoming Kontakt libraries? Will they require K6??


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## EvilDragon (Sep 10, 2018)

At some point all new libraries will be K6 probably.


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## procreative (Sep 10, 2018)

Pity Kontakt cannot categorise libraries and also have small library tabs like Komplete Kontrol. Its a first world problem but when you have so many that list becomes its own problem...


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## EvilDragon (Sep 10, 2018)

Regarding those smaller library tabs, that's only for NKS powered products, so many non-NKS libraries wouldn't have those graphics, hence things stay with these wide images for the foreseeable time.


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## procreative (Sep 10, 2018)

Yes I get that, but there is no reason why a similar system could not be implemented. Would have hoped that since KK came out the next major Kontakt would draw some features from it.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 10, 2018)

True, there's no reason why something similar couldn't be implemented, but I guess we'll see what happens once they get around that GUI update.


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## j_kranz (Sep 10, 2018)

zeng said:


> But my question is; If I don't upgrade to K6 from K5, will I not be able to load upcoming Kontakt libraries? Will they require K6??



Libraries developed by NI themselves typically are always released on the latest available version... so yes, that would be Kontakt 6.x.x at the time of that library's release. Third party products vary by developer, so you'd need to make sure you read their specific requirements.


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## procreative (Sep 10, 2018)

But with Player version libraries you can always run Kontakt 6 Player alongside Kontakt 5 if needed...


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## novaburst (Sep 10, 2018)

I was wondering would there be any real reason for me to upgrade to K6 as the existing one is operating as stable as hell.

Apart from some self repair glitch once you upgrade K5 is pretty solid.



EvilDragon said:


> At some point all new libraries will be K6 probably



Would this be the only real reason to upgrade to K6 just to take advantage of some new library.

As I have noticed there is no cpu advantage 
So would this upgrade appeal to the intuitive user and developer as I am sure many of us just plug and play.

Hope NA does not automatically update. 

It would be nice for the plug and play user to see a significant change in the upgrade but so far there appears to be none and a lot of wishes by users of what they want out of K6 but the wishes does not appear that they will be answard.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 10, 2018)

NA doesn't automatically update, just don't click on "Update All" once you get the updates showing in it.



novaburst said:


> but the wishes does not appear that they will be answard.



As I said, GUI update will happen eventually, Kontakt team is aware of user wishes.


----------



## Raphioli (Sep 10, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> At some point all new libraries will be K6 probably.



I hope that doesn't happen for at least a year.
I'm a person who doesn't upgrade so quickly, which isn't something specific to Kontakt. (I will upgrade eventually, thats for sure.)
I also do the same for macOS. (e.g. wait till the version is like OS10.X.3-5 or something)


----------



## DANIELE (Sep 10, 2018)

Raphioli said:


> I hope that doesn't happen for at least a year.
> I'm a person who doesn't upgrade so quickly, which isn't something specific to Kontakt. (I will upgrade eventually, thats for sure.)
> I also do the same for macOS. (e.g. wait till the version is like OS10.X.3-5 or something)



I think it will take some time. Not everyone is going to update so quickly so we should not see K6 libraries for a while. I hope anyway that libraries producers take many advantages from the updates on the coding side.


----------



## C.R. Rivera (Sep 10, 2018)

Since they are "introducing" K6 on 1 Oct, does the pre-release price jump up from 99 to something cosmic after the presale?


----------



## germancomponist (Sep 13, 2018)

Leo said:


> OK I have 40' monitor with 4k and Kontakt is for my eyes to small. Almost all new software I use support rescaling.
> (name of a few Falcon, U-he, Kescape etc.- is this company for you thickheaded?)
> is it really so special that I want to see the monitor well and I want to read text legibly?


----------



## Leo (Sep 13, 2018)

germancomponist said:


>


yeh this is the interesting way...
The beer was packaged with the new Kontakt 6, right?


----------



## germancomponist (Sep 13, 2018)

My picture is not a joke. When I work on a lib in Kontakt sampler I always use this compromise solution ... .
Ok, the bottles are always replaced. Sometimes it's a bottle of beer, sometimes it's the bottle of a good red wine .... .


----------



## Leo (Sep 13, 2018)

It's a pity I was already looking forward to the new NI k6 beer..


----------



## Geoff Grace (Sep 13, 2018)

Of course, if you drink too much, then everything will become blurry again. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## lp59burst (Sep 13, 2018)

I just went to see if I qualify for the "upgrade" from K5 to K6. I own the full version of K5 that came with my K10 Ultimate purchase.

But, when I tried to check on the upgrade it says "None of the qualifying products are registered to your account" ... and that I'm only eligible for the Crossgrade at $249... huh!?!   

And yes, K10 Ultimate shows up as a registered product on my NI page.

Did I miss something?


----------



## Kosta S (Sep 13, 2018)

germancomponist said:


>


I have a 27' 4K display and Kontakt is too small. With Windows 10 I can rightclick on the desktop and under display settings I can change it to 150% and helps allot, going 170% or over then Kontakt becomes really big and hardly fits in the screen... Reaper handles Kontakt perfectly not so with Studio One, but today they came out with a special upgrade I have not try yet ([Windows 10] System DPI scaling option for third-party plug-ins)...


----------



## Geoff Grace (Sep 13, 2018)

Kosta S said:


> I have a 27' 4K display


Wow! A 27 foot 4K display! Your room must be huge!!!

_(Sorry, I couldn't resist. Great typo!)_

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Kosta S (Sep 14, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> Wow! A 27 foot 4K display! Your room must be huge!!!
> 
> _(Sorry, I couldn't resist. Great typo!)_
> 
> ...


Ha-ha-ha! Sorry for the mistake, yeah I agree 27 foot it would be... a bit much!!!


----------



## rrichard63 (Sep 14, 2018)

lp59burst said:


> I just went to see if I qualify for the "upgrade" from K5 to K6. I own the full version of K5 that came with my K10 Ultimate purchase.
> 
> But, when I tried to check on the upgrade it says "None of the qualifying products are registered to your account" ... and that I'm only eligible for the Crossgrade at $249... huh!?!
> 
> ...


It would be worth contacting NI about K10 and previous versions. I have K11 Ultimate and it's offering me the $99 upgrade.


----------



## catsass (Sep 14, 2018)

Quasar said:


> But I'm glad that people who can live with the new status quo, who are able to perceive it as other than Orwellian and fascist can be happy about Kontakt 6.


It should all be sorted out in Kontakt 6.66


----------



## gsilbers (Sep 14, 2018)

germancomponist said:


> My picture is not a joke. When I work on a lib in Kontakt sampler I always use this compromise solution ... .
> Ok, the bottles are always replaced. Sometimes it's a bottle of beer, sometimes it's the bottle of a good red wine .... .




I have in my mind the stereotype that germans love tiny letters on their software. emagic and NI where the ones i got this from way back when.


----------



## slateandash (Sep 14, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Don't forget the wavetable module. There is a LOT of stuff that can be done with it to embellish sample playback with some synthesis facilities. Phase warping modes alone can do a ton of interesting stuff.
> 
> There'll definitely be shiny libraries coming out for K6, have no doubt about that.


Yep, reckon we'll be jumping on to it asap. Been desperate for better quality reverb and delay units, be interesting to see how the wavetable section works. 

Although, we're also interested in doing some stuff for Falcon. Have been playing with it and getting some very good results. The possibilities and workflow for sound design is exactly how we would've hoped Kontakt 6 might have been updated, its a shame NI couldn't have looked at what UVI are doing there. 

I understand that there is a lot of investment into the architecture of Kontakt in it's current setup, but couldn't 5 have been left as a 'legacy' version to run alongside 6, which could've been a big redesign?


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 14, 2018)

slateandash said:


> but couldn't 5 have been left as a 'legacy' version to run alongside 6, which could've been a big redesign?



Nope. Backwards compatibility is priority #1 in Kontakt team. There won't be a from-scratch redesign of the whole engine.

Want flexibility of Falcon, cool granular, great FX, unlimited modulation, MPE support? Use Falcon, it's great for that. Want much better CPU efficiency, multicore support and better DFD performance? Kontakt. It's simple. They're not competing, they're completing each other. One letter but a huge difference  UVI doesn't even seem to have any intent in encroaching on Kontakt's domination in the market, which is pretty obvious from the types of products UVI puts out (and number of 3rd party devs for it).


----------



## slateandash (Sep 14, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Nope. Backwards compatibility is priority #1 in Kontakt team. There won't be a from-scratch redesign of the whole engine.
> 
> Want flexibility of Falcon, cool granular, great FX, unlimited modulation, MPE support? Use Falcon, it's great for that. Want much better CPU efficiency, multicore support and better DFD performance? Kontakt. It's simple. They're not competing, they're completing each other. One letter but a huge difference  UVI doesn't even seem to have any intent in encroaching on Kontakt's domination in the market, which is pretty obvious from the types of products UVI puts out (and number of 3rd party devs for it).



Interesting perspective on Falcon and Kontakt. Although to me, still a shame that they will never stray too far from what Kontakt is now, and I guess will be the death of it one day. We shall see though!


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 14, 2018)

I wouldn't be so convinced. We got wavetables in, who knows, we might get some other fun stuff down the road. I think they're far from "done" with Kontakt.


----------



## slateandash (Sep 14, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> I wouldn't be so convinced. We got wavetables in, who knows, we might get some other fun stuff down the road. I think they're far from "done" with Kontakt.


----------



## j_kranz (Sep 21, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> I wouldn't be so convinced. We got wavetables in, who knows, we might get some other fun stuff down the road. I think they're far from "done" with Kontakt.



Yeah I’m surprised there hasn’t been more discussion about the new wavetable functionality


----------



## quantum7 (Sep 22, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> I have in my mind the stereotype that germans love tiny letters on their software. emagic and NI where the ones i got this from way back when.



Dang German superior eyesight!!!! What about us poor Aztec, Irish, Spanish, French, Norwegian, Scottish mutts with bad eyes?????


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 24, 2018)

No, you still need KK. That requirement will not change, I would say.


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## kavinsky (Sep 30, 2018)

I just transferred my quickload and output configuration from K5, and quickload seems to be "loading" infinitely now
probably a graphic bug?

+for those who were wondering, quickload refreshing problem each time you reinitialize kontakt UI is still not fixed


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig (Oct 1, 2018)

Anyone had time to take it for a spin? I would love to hear some first impressions before potentially upgrading.


----------



## Jaap (Oct 1, 2018)

So far so good, it installed beside my Kontakt 5 (it shows as "Kontakt" instead of "Kontakt 6"), so current projects are untouched. Did not really stress test it, but everything loads and plays fine, the new instruments are nice. Played a bit with them and think I like them.


----------



## JonSolo (Oct 1, 2018)

I notice nothing different. I'd imagine we'd have to see the new "under the hood" features in action regularly to notice a difference. Performance seems the same.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 1, 2018)

Which is good, shows that nothing got broken in that particular area at least


----------



## JonSolo (Oct 1, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Which is good, shows that nothing got broken in that particular area at least


Yes that is what I was thinking. As mentioned in your other post, any "loss" of performance would have to contain aspects of the new scripting or effects that got used in a way to make that happen.

Do the new Kontakt libraries included use any of the new features?


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 1, 2018)

Yes, Play series do use the wavetable oscillator and the new FX. That's a given since they're supposed to be the showcase libraries for new K6 functionality.


----------



## JonSolo (Oct 1, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Yes, Play series do use the wavetable oscillator and the new FX. That's a given since they're supposed to be the showcase libraries for new K6 functionality.


I am really liking the sounds in each of those libraries. Even then, I am not sensing anything out of the ordinary performance-wise. So looking really good first day into Kontakt 6.


----------



## zeng (Oct 1, 2018)

Jaap said:


> So far so good, it installed beside my Kontakt 5 (it shows as "Kontakt" instead of "Kontakt 6"), so current projects are untouched. Did not really stress test it, but everything loads and plays fine, the new instruments are nice. Played a bit with them and think I like them.



Hi, Did you remove Kontakt 5?


----------



## zeng (Oct 2, 2018)

Well, I am on PC; If I remove Kontakt 5.dll, will my older projects with K5 fail to load or load with K6 (kontakt.dll)?


----------



## Jaap (Oct 2, 2018)

No I did not remove Kontakt 5, just for the reason that my projects keep on 100% working as they where and I see no hassle for myself to have both installed.


----------



## kavinsky (Oct 2, 2018)

zeng said:


> Well, I am on PC; If I remove Kontakt 5.dll, will my older projects with K5 fail to load or load with K6 (kontakt.dll)?


of course they will fail to load, its a different plugin.
I assume that was the reason they removed the "5" from dll name, to keep all future updates backwards compatible


----------



## X-Bassist (Oct 3, 2018)

catsass said:


> It should all be sorted out in Kontakt 6.66



Where o’ where has that catsass been? Oh where, oh where can he be?

There’s a thread just waiting for some quippy social justice (filling in for you is exhausting!). 

https://vi-control.net/community/th...composer-cloud-free-trial.75429/#post-4287111

And yes, I’ll be trying to hold off updating until at least Kontakt 6.33!


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 3, 2018)

catsass said:


> It should all be sorted out in Kontakt 6.66



_*Lingchi*_ *Solo Strings*


----------



## Michael Antrum (Oct 3, 2018)

I heard a rumour that Kontakt 6.66 will incorporate a new tritone engine....



(think about it).....


----------



## ka00 (Oct 3, 2018)

mikeybabes said:


> I heard a rumour that Kontakt 6.66 will incorporate a new tritone engine....
> 
> 
> 
> (think about it).....



And there will be a built-in 2-horns patch. And instead of a tuning knob, there'll be a pitch fork.


----------



## wcreed51 (Oct 3, 2018)

kavinsky said:


> I assume that was the reason they removed the "5" from dll name, to keep all future updates backwards compatible



You'd think they would have taken this opportunity to name the 32bit and 64bit dlls accordingly. So often I see people having trouble because they're trying to use the wrong one.


----------



## Old Timer (Oct 3, 2018)

I won't be upgrading to Kontakt 6 any time soon. My version of Kontakt 5.8.1. works beautifully and does most everything I want it to. As a fledgling sample library developer I don't want to create a new sample library in the latest version of Kontakt and force people to upgrade just so they can use it.


----------



## geronimo (Oct 3, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Yes, Play series do use the wavetable oscillator and the new FX.


For the news FX, I am quite convinced by the new reverb: especially the Reverb Plate.


----------



## Rob Elliott (Oct 3, 2018)

About my template (1000+ tracks) - if I upgrade do I have to re-do all Kontakt 5 instances? :(


----------



## The Darris (Oct 3, 2018)

Forgive me if this is a double post. I really don't want to go through all 10 pages to find if another user posted this. A friend of mine shared with me yesterday that if you are wanting to use Kontakt 5 and 6 in Komplete Kontrol, beaware that Komplete Kontrol, when loading old projects, automatically uses Kontakt 6, whether or not if you used K5 in those projects.

That was all the information he gave me and mentioned he would be passing that information off to NI. It seems to me that NI should have thought about this prior to release. It would be great if they had a preferences setting that allows you to turn on or off whether or not you want KK to automatically use the latest version of Kontakt or not. Just my opinion of course but this makes sense, considering how different everyone's system functions.

-C


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 3, 2018)

Rob Elliott said:


> About my template (1000+ tracks) - if I upgrade do I have to re-do all Kontakt 5 instances? :(



Probably yes. In Reaper, no (easy to rename plugin name in the project file).



The Darris said:


> It would be great if they had a preferences setting that allows you to turn on or off whether or not you want KK to automatically use the latest version of Kontakt or not.



You mean this?


----------



## Guy Rowland (Oct 3, 2018)

Old Timer said:


> I won't be upgrading to Kontakt 6 any time soon. My version of Kontakt 5.8.1. works beautifully and does most everything I want it to. As a fledgling sample library developer I don't want to create a new sample library in the latest version of Kontakt and force people to upgrade just so they can use it.



That'll depend if you want it to be a Kontakt Player library - if so it will have to be K6 from here on. The good news though is that anyone can use the free Kontakt 6 Player library to run it, so no need to upgrade in that case either.


----------



## Leo (Oct 3, 2018)

It is a shame of NI, that his new product almost no one wants to use it. 
We really have been waiting for so long, for what they have just given as a subversion with number- 5.8*1 *?
Excuse from NI, that the code is 20 years old, me as a customer, don't have to be interested.
For what NI guys actually ask from me money 99EUR, when once I'm forced upgrade to 5.81?
At least, if they worked on a new design with rescaling and etc I just do not get so angry.
Kontakt was asleep decade.

K6 doesn't exist for me .
Whew & ugly! :emoji_toilet:


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 3, 2018)

Leo said:


> Excuse from NI, that the code is 20 years old, me as a customer, don't have to be interested.



You don't have to be interested, but that doesn't make it any less of the truth. Go ask some actual programmers how it is working on a 20 years old codebase and trying to cram modern features in it. Go. See what they tell you.



Leo said:


> Kontakt was asleep decade.



That is absolutely untrue. We've had a lot of new features added in K5 release cycle (which lasted for 6 years or so).


----------



## Robo Rivard (Oct 3, 2018)

I've just spent the last three weeks building an ultimate template containing thousands of tracks within Cubase 9.5, using mostly Kontakt 5 instruments.

Will I have to start all over again if I migrate to Kontakt 6, or can I simply bypass the Kontak5.dll, replacing it with the Kontakt6.dll ?

I'm fed up doing things all over again.


----------



## pinki (Oct 3, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> You don't have to be interested, but that doesn't make it any less of the truth. Go ask some actual programmers how it is working on a 20 years old codebase and trying to cram modern features in it. Go. See what they tell you.
> 
> 
> 
> That is absolutely untrue. We've had a lot of new features added in K5 release cycle (which lasted for 6 years or so).



another put down of any criticism of Kontakt in a rude manner...yawn


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 3, 2018)

There was nothing rude in that post, it's all factual.



Robo Rivard said:


> Will I have to start all over again if I migrate to Kontakt 6, or can I simply bypass the Kontak5.dll, replacing it with the Kontakt6.dll ?



You'll probably have to do it again, since Cubase stores plugin ID instead of just plugin DLL name.


----------



## babylonwaves (Oct 4, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> You don't have to be interested, but that doesn't make it any less of the truth. Go ask some actual programmers how it is working on a 20 years old codebase and trying to cram modern features in it. Go. See what they tell you.


That's not the point. Of course nobody wants that. The point is: how did it come so far? Software maintenance is certainly not loved by marketing (no new features you can sell) but from a product management point of view it is absolutely necessary.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV (Oct 4, 2018)

The Darris said:


> Forgive me if this is a double post. I really don't want to go through all 10 pages to find if another user posted this. A friend of mine shared with me yesterday that if you are wanting to use Kontakt 5 and 6 in Komplete Kontrol, beaware that Komplete Kontrol, when loading old projects, automatically uses Kontakt 6, whether or not if you used K5 in those projects.
> 
> That was all the information he gave me and mentioned he would be passing that information off to NI. It seems to me that NI should have thought about this prior to release. It would be great if they had a preferences setting that allows you to turn on or off whether or not you want KK to automatically use the latest version of Kontakt or not. Just my opinion of course but this makes sense, considering how different everyone's system functions.
> 
> -C


Hi Chris,

That very feature exists in the plugin options screen in KK.


----------



## zolhof (Oct 4, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> Will I have to start all over again if I migrate to Kontakt 6, or can I simply bypass the Kontak5.dll, replacing it with the Kontakt6.dll ?
> 
> I'm fed up doing things all over again.



Yes, you will have to do it all over again. Here's what happens if you rename Kontakt.dll (version 6) to Kontakt 5.dll, in case you are curious:







I also tried swapping every single registry entry, but it doesn't work like that, as pointed by ED.

The "good" news is that you can save multis (patch only) and output presets in v5, and they will load just fine in v6 while keeping the routing. Yeay! So here's what I'm doing in Vienna:


Save Multi in the original channel
Duplicate track
Load Kontakt.dll (v6) in the second channel
Load Multi
Add aux channels if necessary (Vienna)
Reroute busses, change colors, double check everything (Vienna)
Delete original channel and unused aux channels
Try not to cry. Cry a lot
Rinse, repeat

You can use AutoHotKey (win) or Keyboard Maestro (mac) to do most of the clicking for you. If you use effects or do any mixing in Vienna (I don't), then you are pretty much screwed. You can't apply "channel sets" to existing tracks, so you have to redo everything manually.

Good luck and if it's any consolation, know that many of us are going through the same boring process.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 4, 2018)

Man, I don't want to rub any salt in anyone's wounds, but the way Reaper does this is just perfect. Since it doesn't rely on plugin ID, you can just use a text editor to find-replace the name of DLL file used in your project and track template files, and everything will work in the new version just fine. It literally takes less than a minute to do this.

Of course, not relying on plugin ID might not be good in certain scenarios, but I've yet to find such a scenario...


----------



## ghandizilla (Oct 4, 2018)

zolhof said:


> The "good" news is that you can save multis (patch only) and output presets in v5, and they will load just fine in v6 while keeping the routing.



I confirm it works perfectly with Reaper 5.95. 3 project templates and 8 track templates migrated to Kontakt 6 in less than an hour. (No VEPro here, just saving/loading multis. No settings lost.)


----------



## Old Timer (Oct 4, 2018)

Polkasound said:


> The main reason I upgraded to Kontakt 6 was so that I could run it side-by-side with Kontakt 5. Now I can use all the latest libraries with 6, but continue developing instruments in 5.


I've been told by NI that I can't run multiple versions of Kontakt on my Mac.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 4, 2018)

Well, I suppose in the case where you use Kontakt hosted in Vienna, then THAT used as a plugin in Reaper, it'd be the same pickle as in any other host (because then Vienna handles plugins rather than DAW). But as long as you use raw Kontakt instances directly in Reaper, all is good. 



Old Timer said:


> I've been told by NI that I can't run multiple versions of Kontakt on my Mac.



You should be able to. I think only the AU plugin will automatically use the latest version available (that was implemented in Kontakt some time in v5 cycle). But standalone and Mac VST should be able to coexist, IIRC.


----------



## Kony (Oct 4, 2018)

pinki said:


> another put down of any criticism of Kontakt in a rude manner...yawn


Seriously?


----------



## thevisi0nary (Oct 4, 2018)

It's wonderful that they are making kontakt more accessible for developers and scripters. That said there are a ton of really simple things that could be done to improve the user experience. Better memory management of the quickload system to prevent loading times, a way to assign patch switching to a shortcut (or the ability to assign anything to a shortcut really), general gui annoyances, the option to disable certain notifications if they serve no purpose for me, like needing to X out of the save prompt every time a change a parameter while demoing different patches for a song.

Still a really great sampler, its just the little things that get me.


----------



## Pudge (Oct 4, 2018)

Would saving Instruments presets as Snapshots carry over to K6? Be a real pain in the ass having to rebuild track settings and templates... 

Would it be possible to create a small program that can be fed the various DAW track setting formats using K5 and convert them to K6?


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 4, 2018)

thevisi0nary said:


> Better memory management of the quickload system to prevent loading times



Quickload just uses links/aliases, not really anything to memory manage there. Any loading time issues seem isolated rather than 100% certain reproducible cases. I had a pretty huge QL once and it was all as fast as if there weren't any QL...



thevisi0nary said:


> a way to assign patch switching to a shortcut



Instrument banks can serve that purpose, caveat being you don't get to see the GUI of the instrument. But if you have your instruments already set up how you want them to be, yeah, that's the way to go.



Pudge said:


> Would saving Instruments presets as Snapshots carry over to K6?



Snapshots are always tied to the NKI they belong to. This wouldn't solve the problem when you want to upgrade versions of Kontakt, as previously mentioned in the thread, you'd need to manually replace things via multis instead (because multis preserve output routing, snapshots don't).



Pudge said:


> Would it be possible to create a small program that can be fed the various DAW track setting formats using K5 and convert them to K6?



It's not _im_possible but it is improbable that it will happen, considering how many DAWs are out there and each of them has their own file format idiosyncracies. You'll sooner be done converting from K5 to K6 manually rather than waiting for somebody to make such a program.


----------



## steveo42 (Oct 4, 2018)

I have Komplete 11 Ultimate and looking at the upgrade, aside from Kontakt 6 which I will be forced to purchase at some time due to newer libraries requiring it, I don't see any reason to upgrade to the Komplete Ultimate Creators Bundle other than the full versions of the Symphony Series. Not sure if that is worth $599 or not for me.


----------



## Rob Elliott (Oct 4, 2018)

When I upgrade - I'll keep present template (K5) as it is and only change to 6 (in template) when NEW libraries are added or K5 libraries are updated with *Desirable* features.


----------



## j_kranz (Oct 4, 2018)

Rob Elliott said:


> When I upgrade - I'll keep present template (K5) as it is and only change to 6 (in template) when NEW libraries are added or K5 libraries are updated with *Desirable* features.



Yeah, that's pretty much the answer... Perhaps many on this thread weren't around during the Kontakt 2, 3, 4 days... but we all had to re-do templates for those too, and likely will again in the future should 7 roll around. It just comes with the territory, and if it's only an annoyance once every 5 years or so then so be it. If you don't have any specific reason to update your whole template then why go through the trouble? Both 5 and 6 will co-exist on systems just fine (I've had 6 on mine for the whole beta cycle and have done several projects using 5 on my older templates).

That being said, there are a lot of changes under the hood and behind the scenes in 6 that aren't super 'exciting' to the user base but will allow even better library development, which benefits all of us. It may take a little bit of time for us to see that, but it will happen.

One last thing (and a major thing IMO) to keep in mind, is that at this point radical changes to Kontakt are highly unlikely to be seen. Kontakt is a MAJOR eco-system and platform at this point, and the risk of breaking things isn't something NI took lightly with this release, and I think that can't be stressed enough. Making risky changes affects an entire sector of this business at this point.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 4, 2018)

j_kranz said:


> Kontakt is a MAJOR eco-system and platform at this point, and the risk of breaking things isn't something NI took lightly with this release, and I think that can't be stressed enough.



This is the absolute truth, thanks for stating it.

I would append it with this: large changes _are_ possible, but they _must_ be done with *extreme care and iteratively* *over a longer period of time.*


----------



## steveo42 (Oct 4, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> This is the absolute truth, thanks for stating it.
> 
> I would append it with this: large changes _are_ possible, but they _must_ be done with *extreme care and iteratively* *over a longer period of time.*



Not to mention extensive regression testing to make sure nothing else is getting broken in the process. I would imagine with the huge number of libraries out there, both NI and others, it would be a massive undertaking.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 4, 2018)

Indeed.


----------



## Robo Rivard (Oct 4, 2018)

zolhof said:


> Yes, you will have to do it all over again. Here's what happens if you rename Kontakt.dll (version 6) to Kontakt 5.dll, in case you are curious:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That completely sucks. I guess I will never use my Kontakt 6 then. It's not worth the work.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 4, 2018)

Except you can keep K5 on your computer and use K6 alongside without any issues...


----------



## olmerk (Oct 4, 2018)

I've checked new KSP Reference Manual and found no detailed information about introduced features like ui_wavetable for example. Only brief mentioning in Version History section. So how should devs use them? More to come soon?


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 4, 2018)

Wavetable is defined just like any other button or switch (there are no additional parameters needed, like you need for sliders or knobs etc.)

See KSP reference pages 173-174 for relevant control parameters that apply to the ui_wavetable widget.


----------



## Shubus (Oct 4, 2018)

steveo42 said:


> Not to mention extensive regression testing to make sure nothing else is getting broken in the process. I would imagine with the huge number of libraries out there, both NI and others, it would be a massive undertaking.


Yes regression testing! I wonder about that as Native Instruments beta cycle seemed awfully short for such an important product. This is why it seems a good bet to wait until K12 goes on sale next year and hopefully most of the bugs will have been worked out.


----------



## olmerk (Oct 4, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> See KSP reference pages 173-174 for relevant control parameters that apply to the ui_wavetable widget.



Thanks for pointing out. I was searching the manual for "ui_wavetable" appearance)

Another question about the following line from the manual: "Combine with get_font_id() to use custom fonts". How to understand it? Custom fonts can be added at last? Though for me it seems that get_font_id() just returns 0-24 factory font number.


----------



## geronimo (Oct 4, 2018)

It's even specified "Dynamic fonts" in the announcement of the update in version 6.02.


----------



## GtrString (Oct 4, 2018)

I think Kontakt is an incredible piece of kit, and I couldn’t imagine working without it. And the new hybrid keys looks like they fill in a gap, where you quickly can combine two sound sources without busting the memory bank of your cpu. Works for me in many scenarios.

Im looking to upgrade, but the information I cant locate is how much bigger is Komplete 12 from previous versions? Im on Komplete 9, and need more drive space in my system, I just try to figure out how much more I need. Does anybody know these specs?


----------



## alanb (Oct 4, 2018)

There's a lovely chart on the NI website comparing the different flavors of K12, but I don't see anything comparing any of them with K11U.

It's hard to tell what K12U has that K11U doesn't.

*What, other than Kontakt 6, "Massive X," (I've yet to use any version of Massive), and a handful of "Expansions" (whatever they are), does the K11U ---> K12U upgrader get for his/her $400?*

Is there a more comprehensive comparison anywhere else . . . 

. . . or even just a simple list of the things that are in K12U that aren't in K11U?


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 4, 2018)

olmerk said:


> Another question about the following line from the manual: "Combine with get_font_id() to use custom fonts". How to understand it? Custom fonts can be added at last? Though for me it seems that get_font_id() just returns 0-24 factory font number.



Yes, that part needs more documentation. 

Dynamic/picture fonts are basically PNG files which you put in Resources/pictures. They need to comply to Windows-1252 character set, and the image should look something like this:






So there's a fully red dot (255, 0, 0) in upper left corner that denotes the start of each character. Another important thing is that the transparency of the image needs to be made from fully black (0, 0, 0) instead of any other color.

Let's say the above image is called custom_font.png. So you'd do:


```
on init
    declare ui_label $TestText (1, 1)

    $cfont_ID := get_font_id("custom_font")

    set_control_par(get_ui_id($TestText), $CONTROL_PAR_FONT_TYPE, $cfont_ID)
end on
```

You can have any number of such fonts - in this case I recommend storing their IDs in an array.





alanb said:


> . . . or even just a simple list of the things that are in K12U that aren't in K11U?



Thrill, TRK-01, Discovery: Middle East, Session Guitarist - Electric Sunburst, Session Strings Pro 2, Mod Pack, Crush Pack, 15 Expansions. I think.


----------



## geronimo (Oct 5, 2018)

Many thanks, Mario, for the font's precision: there is no native font converter on Mac computer .
Does anyone know an Application ?


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 5, 2018)

Any image editor will do that can handle fonts, PNGs and transparency (so, almost all of them). Photoshop, GIMP... You'd need to place the red dots manually.


----------



## geronimo (Oct 5, 2018)

I have GIMP, Pixelmator and Affinit Photo: they don't accept the .ttf format .


----------



## steveo42 (Oct 5, 2018)

alanb said:


> There's a lovely chart on the NI website comparing the different flavors of K12, but I don't see anything comparing any of them with K11U.
> 
> It's hard to tell what K12U has that K11U doesn't.
> 
> ...



I had the same questions. Here is an interesting Youtube comparing and also a link to a spreadsheet documenting the history of Kontakt / Komplete versions.
Make sure to read the description where he lists the other links.
I can't vouch for the accuracy, but at least it's a start.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 5, 2018)

geronimo said:


> I have GIMP, Pixelmator and Affinit Photo: they don't accept the .ttf format .



Doesn't have to be a TTF font, can be OTF or whatever other font types are out there. What's important is that you render them down to PNG in any of those graphics editors.

But I think it's quite weird that they wouldn't support TTF fonts... GIMP definitely does support that - proof. You're not supposed to open the TTF file in graphics editor - you're supposed to use the text tool to enter all the characters manually, etc.


----------



## RCsound (Oct 5, 2018)

magnumpraw said:


> Main drawback for me seems to be that the plugin name will be different and hence a complete reprogramming of my template using tons of Kontakt instances would need to happen. :(






EvilDragon said:


> That was the case with Kontakt 5 as well, though? It had a different plugin name from Kontakt 4.



The new name of Kontakt 6 (without number, "Kontakt") is to prevent in the future this problem with templates or has nothing to do with it?


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 5, 2018)

RCsound said:


> The new name of Kontakt 6 (without number, "Kontakt") is to prevent in the future this problem with templates or has nothing to do with it?



I don't know for sure, it can go either way, but it does seem more likely that any future major version of Kontakt would just be "Kontakt" in any DAW. However only Kontakt dev team would know an answer to that question for sure.


----------



## geronimo (Oct 5, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> You're not supposed to open the TTF file in graphics editor - you're supposed to use the text tool to enter all the characters manually, etc.


OK, another question:should we accompany these files in .png format with a .txt file in the Ressources/pictures Folder ?


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 5, 2018)

IIRC txt file is not necessary for these.


----------



## geronimo (Oct 5, 2018)

OK; I have tested on a label and the font change but it's in disorder; I think it comes from the image in .png format.
I arranged the red dots as I could.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 5, 2018)

Yes, that PNG is wrong because it doesn't follow Windows-1252 codepage. It needs to have all the characters, so first 32 characters are just empty, but red dots still need to be there. Just like in the example image that I posted previously 


Also those red dots are semitransparent. They must be fully opaque, RGB 255, 0, 0.


----------



## geronimo (Oct 5, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> It needs to have all the characters, so first 32 characters are just empty, but red dots still need to be there. Just like in the example image that I posted previously


So, I can already put 32 red dots at the beginning of the image (on the left) .

A new try .


----------



## Saxer (Oct 5, 2018)

Good news for Logic users:

In Kontakt 5 there was a difference in CPU demand between AU (Audio Unit) and VST.
This difference seems to be solved in Kontakt 6!

That means: sample libraries need less CPU in Kontakt 6. In my quick and dirty tests it's about 30% to 50% less CPU than in Kontakt 5! I tried Performancesamples and Musicalsamples libraries and it's a really big difference! Less difference with Spitfire legatos. Looks like it depends on the programming or scripting.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Oct 5, 2018)

Saxer said:


> Good news for Logic users:
> 
> In Kontakt 5 there was a difference in CPU demand between AU (Audio Unit) and VST.
> This difference seems to be solved in Kontakt 6!
> ...


Now I just need to either wait for the first sale on Komplete 12U or a deal on Kontakt 6


----------



## Geoff Grace (Oct 5, 2018)

Saxer said:


> Good news for Logic users:
> 
> In Kontakt 5 there was a difference in CPU demand between AU (Audio Unit) and VST.
> This difference seems to be solved in Kontakt 6!
> ...


Any idea how Kontakt AAX fares on the CPU spectrum?

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Saxer (Oct 6, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> Any idea how Kontakt AAX fares on the CPU spectrum?


Sorry, no idea. I'm not a Protools user.


----------



## Geoff Grace (Oct 6, 2018)

No worries. Perhaps someone else will know. Thanks for your reply, @Saxer!

Best,

Geoff


----------



## lpuser (Oct 6, 2018)

Old Timer said:


> I've been told by NI that I can't run multiple versions of Kontakt on my Mac.



Sure you can, why would it not work? NI is sometimes telling strange things to customers ...
Attached is a screenshot of Logic 10.4.2 which runs different versions of NI plugins alongside each other with no problem. A different story is of course the question if these older plugins still work on newer macOS versions. Not sure about Mojave, but in High Sierra, they are just fine.


----------



## Oliver (Oct 6, 2018)

i just did the following: 
loaded kontakt 6 player and inserted an individual patch from time macro. did the same with my old kontakt 5.8.1....
inserted a midi track for each of these and played it.
surprise was, kontakt 6 eats up around 30-40% less cpu then old kontakt 5.

can anyone redo that and confirm that?
if thats really the case i immediatley upgrade to full kontakt 6!


----------



## D Halgren (Oct 6, 2018)

Oliver said:


> i just did the following:
> loaded kontakt 6 player and inserted an individual patch from time macro. did the same with my old kontakt 5.8.1....
> inserted a midi track for each of these and played it.
> surprise was, kontakt 6 eats up around 30-40% less cpu then old kontakt 5.
> ...


What Daw and operating system?


----------



## Oliver (Oct 6, 2018)

sorry...
win10 newest update
cubase 9.5 newest version


----------



## D Halgren (Oct 6, 2018)

Oliver said:


> sorry...
> win10 newest update
> cubase 9.5 newest version


Interesting, I'm Cubase too, but Mac. Not near my rig for a couple of days though. Hopefully someone else can do some testing.


----------



## thesoloist (Oct 6, 2018)

Oliver said:


> i just did the following:
> loaded kontakt 6 player and inserted an individual patch from time macro. did the same with my old kontakt 5.8.1....
> inserted a midi track for each of these and played it.
> surprise was, kontakt 6 eats up around 30-40% less cpu then old kontakt 5.
> ...



I ran a test on my Mac rig using Kontakt Player 6 and Kontakt 5.8. Same results as you. Although I am not sure if the results are due to the players light weight architecture compared to the full version. If that is not the case then that feature alone is worth updating to Kontakt 6.


----------



## zolhof (Oct 6, 2018)

I don't have Time Macro but I did test both full versions of Kontakt with Dark Matter 2, which is quite a CPU intensive library, and the main difference here is how less often it spikes in K6. That alone is worth the upgrade for me. With CPU friendly libraries, the performance is basically the same, with K6 often hitting 2-3% lower than K5. It doesn't seem much, but these numbers add up quickly.

Regarding the way VEPro handles plugin IDs, I spoke with a Vienna rep and got the usual "we have forwarded it to our developers" response. That would be a nice long-term QOL improvement, so here's hoping.


----------



## Oliver (Oct 7, 2018)

very interesting indeed!

i wonder if we can upgrade and the get a better price later when upgrading from Ultimate 11 to 12, because i dont need right now all that bonus stuff.
not worth 400 for me right now...


----------



## geronimo (Oct 7, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> you're supposed to use the text tool to enter all the characters manually, etc.


I opened a dedicated topic to user fonts so as not to pollute this general topic on KONTAKT 6 .


----------



## Oliver (Oct 7, 2018)

well i have another performance comparision for kontakt 5 and new player 6.

maximo 24 bit strings patch from sonokinetic, old version around 6-8%, new version around 5-7%, more on the 5 side...


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## EvilDragon (Oct 7, 2018)

That's all within margin of error, you can't really tie that to improved performance (especially since there were no such optimizations between 5.8.1 and 6.0.2 ).


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## Oliver (Oct 7, 2018)

well the timne macro patch was 40% lower...
something must have happend


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 7, 2018)

Nothing I can confirm. Heavy patches that were heavy in 5.8.1. are just about the same CPU in 6.0.2 over here.


EDIT: Actually, there's one thing that could be possibly different. When you install K6 from scratch, it doesn't copy all the options from K5, but defaults them. So could it be that the multicore setting is set to a different value compared to what your K5 is set to?


----------



## bill45 (Oct 7, 2018)

A guy on a youtube video recomended turning multicore in kontakt to Zero.
If we own Kontakt player libraries, Can we get kontakt 6 player for free?


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## d.healey (Oct 7, 2018)

bill45 said:


> Can we get kontakt 6 player for free?


Of course - https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-6-player/


----------



## rrichard63 (Oct 7, 2018)

d.healey said:


> Of course - https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-6-player/


Actually, it appears in Native Access automatically.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 7, 2018)

bill45 said:


> A guy on a youtube video recomended turning multicore in kontakt to Zero.



It really depends on the use case, DAW, etc.


----------



## LandWaterSky (Oct 8, 2018)

Until they offer easy access to more scalable and higher contrast type, Native Instruments is seriously neglecting a huge part of their pro audience: people over 40. All industry studies on useability show that GUIs created for the vision impaired have higher overall satisfaction across all age groups and users. I have been advocating this issue for almost two decades to all kinds of Web clients. From one man shops to multinational corporations. Mostly to deaf ears.

To be fair, I have used Kontakt for years and I like it very much. But the useability issues keeps me from loving it.

(I'm not reacting to you, EvilDragon, but to the current and past versions of Kontakt)


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## EvilDragon (Oct 8, 2018)

They are aware of all that, but there are good reasons why it's hard to move on that front. It's not that it won't happen, but it'll take more time.


----------



## LandWaterSky (Oct 8, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> They are aware of all that, but there are good reasons why it's hard to move on that front. It's not that it won't happen, but it'll take more time.



Very good to hear, ED. I think UI improvements would create more goodwill among their user base than a whole slew of other technical improvements.


----------



## Geoff Grace (Oct 8, 2018)

In the meantime, users can zoom in on anything that's too small by using key commands (Option-Command-8 on the Mac).

More here:

Apple | Mac accessibility shortcuts

Microsoft | Use Magnifier to make things on the screen easier to see

Best,

Geoff


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 8, 2018)

LandWaterSky said:


> I think UI improvements would create more goodwill among their user base than a whole slew of other technical improvements.



Probably. But for the time being they're making us developers very happy with new additions to the engine and scripting, which is appreciated. Plus it will also result in cool new libraries, so it's not that it's without user benefit.


----------



## KarlHeinz (Oct 8, 2018)

Just beginning to install komplete 12 and wondering where the new play instruments (ethereal, hybrid keys, analog dreams) are ? They are not listened as "not installed" instruments, so I wonder if they are part of the factory library ? I hope not cause that would mean I have to install all the 23 GB only for these 3 Instruments :-(


----------



## KarlHeinz (Oct 8, 2018)

Installed factory library now, still cant find any of these new kontakt player libraries :-(


----------



## RCsound (Oct 8, 2018)

KarlHeinz said:


> Just beginning to install komplete 12 and wondering where the new play instruments (ethereal, hybrid keys, analog dreams) are ? They are not listened as "not installed" instruments, so I wonder if they are part of the factory library ? I hope not cause that would mean I have to install all the 23 GB only for these 3 Instruments :-(



They are part of the bundle but, in my case with K12U, i received a email from NI a bit later with the disponibility to install those instruments from Native Access and the invoice of these free instruments, so after restarting NA these instruments are available.


----------



## KarlHeinz (Oct 8, 2018)

RCsound: thanks a lot, , you saved my day .

Yes, after closing (and then downloading the 6 GB from the session strings I have started to download for install again after restart....) and reopening native acess they are there now. What a b....... NI on its best again .
I know it has been mentioned before but: what use has a hard drive when the biggest items (session strings 2, Middle eas....) have to be downloaded KOMPLETE(ly) again ? Wonder how many days I will spent on this, if I have known that I could as well take a download instead of waiting on harddisk from U.k.......


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 8, 2018)

KarlHeinz said:


> what use has a hard drive when the biggest items (session strings 2, Middle eas....) have to be downloaded KOMPLETE(ly) again ?



No you don't need to do this. Already installed NI libraries can be located from NA. Hover over them in "Not installed" section and you will see.


----------



## KarlHeinz (Oct 8, 2018)

No, both NEW for K12 (Middle east and Session strings 2, same now with all the new kontakt player instruments) have to be downloaded completely. Locating dont work on the delivered hard drive, evrything seems encrypted or whatever. Only thing I can install so far from the drive is kontakt factory library (which I deleted after realizing that the new player instruments are not in there) dated last century and the rickenbacker (same century....). And of course this wonderful expansions weigthing about 1 Gb max. each...Really dont worth to worry about (even if I cant help but do  but I really cant see any sense in it. The sessions strings 2 are 1.0.0 so nothing has changed, why cant I install them from the drive ? I really wonder whats on it, maybe all the (last century) pianos....


----------



## Old Timer (Oct 9, 2018)

lpuser said:


> Sure you can, why would it not work? NI is sometimes telling strange things to customers ...
> Attached is a screenshot of Logic 10.4.2 which runs different versions of NI plugins alongside each other with no problem. A different story is of course the question if these older plugins still work on newer macOS versions. Not sure about Mojave, but in High Sierra, they are just fine.



When you installed Kontakt 6 did you have to do anything with Kontakt 5 (move it? rename it? etc). The following is direct from NI:

_Niall @ NI (Native Instruments) 

Jun 28, 12:40 CEST 

It´s not possible to have installed two different versions of Kontakt on the same system. There may be workarounds possible, by setting a partition on the OS disk but it is outside of our scope unfortunately. _

So...? Now I'm confused...


----------



## KarlHeinz (Oct 9, 2018)

Only thing I can say so far: I have a track with Kontakt 5 in it, replaced one instance with kontakt 6 (for trying out the new play instruments), worked so far without any problems. Only thing I realized so far I have to do some rescans with KK, maybe this could give trouble with two Kontakt instances on the long run.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 9, 2018)

Old Timer said:


> _Niall @ NI (Native Instruments)
> 
> Jun 28, 12:40 CEST
> 
> ...



This is entirely wrong information. Feel free to tell this back to Niall @ NI 

Kontakt 6 can be installed along Kontakt 5, Kontakt 4, and even Kontakt 1 on the same system  And with some clever file renaming, you can have all the possible subversions of Kontakt installed on the same system, too.


----------



## Oliver (Oct 9, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> This is entirely wrong information. Feel free to tell this back to Niall @ NI
> 
> Kontakt 6 can be installed along Kontakt 5, Kontakt 4, and even Kontakt 1 on the same system  And with some clever file renaming, you can have all the possible subversions of Kontakt installed on the same system, too.



thats good to hear, that means also, if i understand you correctly, that i dont have to recreate all instrument tracks with the new version, unless i have to, because of a new version of that library?


----------



## Old Timer (Oct 9, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> This is entirely wrong information. Feel free to tell this back to Niall @ NI
> 
> Kontakt 6 can be installed along Kontakt 5, Kontakt 4, and even Kontakt 1 on the same system  And with some clever file renaming, you can have all the possible subversions of Kontakt installed on the same system, too.



Well, ED. Thanks for the heads up. Not sure why I was told this. Possibly I wasn't clear to NI with my original question. Perhaps I will get Kontakt 6 then...

Best wishes, and happy trails, Old Timer.


----------



## Guy Rowland (Oct 9, 2018)

Question for Mario or anyone else who knows - if I started building a template using Kontakt 6 Player, then subsequently got the full version of Kontakt, I'm hoping it would continue without any hiccups? IIRC, its actually the same plugin and just a license change, right? (Thinking mostly of PC here).


----------



## lpuser (Oct 9, 2018)

Old Timer said:


> Not sure why I was told this. Possibly I wasn't clear to NI with my original question. Perhaps I will get Kontakt 6 then...



... LOL, that´s why I have posted (added) a screenshot with different Kontakt versions all running side by side (the same is true for all the other NI plugins). If that would not have worked, I could not have made this screenshots - unless I´d be photoshopping something. NI support is sometimes "problematic", unfortunately.


----------



## lpuser (Oct 9, 2018)

Guy Rowland said:


> Question for Mario or anyone else who knows - if I started building a template using Kontakt 6 Player, then subsequently got the full version of Kontakt, I'm hoping it would continue without any hiccups? IIRC, its actually the same plugin and just a license change, right? (Thinking mostly of PC here).



Kontakt Player and Full are two different products. Player installs alongside Kontakt Full, so it won´t be "switched" automatically when you purchase the full version. Instead, Player will still be available, but of course you could replace the plugin, reload the sounds and then have everything in the full version of Kontakt.
Hope this helps.


----------



## Guy Rowland (Oct 9, 2018)

lpuser said:


> Kontakt Player and Full are two different products. Player installs alongside Kontakt Full, so it won´t be "switched" automatically when you purchase the full version. Instead, Player will still be available, but of course you could replace the plugin, reload the sounds and then have everything in the full version of Kontakt.
> Hope this helps.



Ah I must have mis-remembered how it worked. The plugin is just called kontakt.vst (on the Mac) so slightly surprised it doesn't just pick up the Player version. That's a bit of a pain.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 9, 2018)

Musical Sampling and Performance Samples are two developers who's instruments have a lot of scripting under the hood that causes huge CPU spikes in Logic.

But I just noticed that in this thread:
https://vi-control.net/community/th...les-_-con-moto-cellos-now.75598/#post-4289193

Saxer says (about Performance Samples) "CPU killer in Kontakt 5 at the active channel in Logic but *runs really fine in Kontakt 6*!"

Given the discussion about K5/K6 performance improvement, is there anyone else who can confirm this?


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 9, 2018)

lpuser said:


> Kontakt Player and Full are two different products. Player installs alongside Kontakt Full, so it won´t be "switched" automatically when you purchase the full version.



Incorrect. Player is just a different license type. The executable is bit-by-bit identical between player and full version. So yes, when full version is purchased and activated, Player becomes Full and the same is carried over to all the projects that used the Player.


----------



## Brian2112 (Oct 9, 2018)

I notice Sample Logic Expeditions and Arpology Cinematic seem to be Kontakt 6 casualties (i.e. they don’t work in Kontakt 6). Anybody found any others?


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 9, 2018)

Nothing has been changed regarding backwards compatibility in K6, all libraries are still supported and open just fine. You might have something happening on your system.


----------



## Brian2112 (Oct 9, 2018)

You might be right ED but both of those libraries use custom preset locations in their scripts which I think are only supported by player compatible libraries now. Just a thought...
Have you tried either of those libraries in K6?
Again, thanks for all your help ED

EDIT: I should clarify: Library works but presets don't load in script
.


----------



## Geoff Grace (Oct 9, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> lpuser said:
> 
> 
> > Kontakt Player and Full are two different products. Player installs alongside Kontakt Full, so it won´t be "switched" automatically when you purchase the full version.
> ...


Just posting this again to make sure that @Guy Rowland is notified of *Mario*'s reply.



Guy Rowland said:


> Question for Mario or anyone else who knows - if I started building a template using Kontakt 6 Player, then subsequently got the full version of Kontakt, I'm hoping it would continue without any hiccups? IIRC, its actually the same plugin and just a license change, right? (Thinking mostly of PC here).


Best,

Geoff


----------



## Guy Rowland (Oct 9, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> Just posting this again to make sure that @Guy Rowland is notified of *Mario*'s reply.
> 
> 
> Best,
> ...



Thanks Geoff and Mario - that’s the news I was hoping for. Now all I’m waiting for is for Cubase 10 to solve all those Track Archive / Disabled Track bugs as they’ve promised, and I can loose myself in building everything all over again!


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 10, 2018)

Brian2112 said:


> You might be right ED but both of those libraries use custom preset locations in their scripts which I think are only supported by player compatible libraries now. Just a thought...
> Have you tried either of those libraries in K6?



I don't have those libraries.

Which custom preset locations? There was always a difference on where load/save_array() commands will look between Player and regular full version instruments, this didn't change in K6 at all. In any case, if they used load/save_array_str() and based it off $GET_FOLDER_PATCH_DIR, it will work regardless of Kontakt version. So it looks like it might be a scripting issue then, in which case, contact SL.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt (Oct 10, 2018)

alanb said:


> There's a lovely chart on the NI website comparing the different flavors of K12, but I don't see anything comparing any of them with K11U.
> 
> It's hard to tell what K12U has that K11U doesn't.
> 
> ...



I assembled this over the months in my thread on Komplete 12 which was begun before it was released, based on the rumor mill. I was really doing it for myself, as I wanted to really explore all the libraries at length and consider the prices in my decision. But I hope it helps others.

*New from Komplete 11 to Komplete 12*


Kontakt 6 $99 upgrade
Massive X No price yet
Session Strings 2 $99
Native Instruments Discovery Series: Middle East $99
Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass $99
TRK-01 (Reaktor) $99
Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair $69
10 Maschine Expansions and Battery Kits (plus Massive and Monark presets)
Deep Matter, Elastic Thump, Halycon Sky, London Grit, Lucid Mission, Molten Veil, Neon Drive, Queensbridge Story, True School, Velvet Lounge $49 each
Massive Expansions Stadium Flex, Nocturnal State, and Spectrum Quake $59


*New from Komplete Ultimate 11 to Komplete Ultimate 12*


Kontakt 6 $99 upgrade
Massive X No price yet
Thrill $299
Session Strings Pro 2 $299 (update $149)
Native Instruments Discovery Series: Middle East $99
Symphony Essentials Percussion $99
Session Guitarist: Strummed Acoustic 2 $99
Session Guitarist: Electric Sunburst $99
TRK-01 (Reaktor) $99
Kinetic Toys $99
Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair $69
Crushpack Effects Series: Bite, Dirt, Freak $69
20 Maschine Expansions & Battery Kits (plus presets for Massive, Monark, Prism, etc.)
Astral Flutter, Byte Riot, Caribbean Current, Cavern Floor, Decoded Forms, Deep Matter, Drop Squad, Elastic Thump, Golden Kingdom, Halycon Sky, Lazer Dice, London Grit, Lucid Mission, Marble Rims, Molten Veil, Neon Drive, Platinum Bounce, Queensbridge Story, True School, Velvet Lounge $49 each
Massive Expansions: Stadium Flex, Nocturnal State, and Spectrum Quake $59


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## lpuser (Oct 10, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Incorrect. Player is just a different license type. The executable is bit-by-bit identical between player and full version. So yes, when full version is purchased and activated, Player becomes Full and the same is carried over to all the projects that used the Player.



This is weird ... I have both plugins available in my plugin list and NI Access always asks me to specifically upgrade my Player version despite owning the full version. Also, the songs made with Player still load Player ... So you got me fully confused now ...


----------



## jadedsean (Oct 10, 2018)

Probably a stupid question guys but what is the location path for the new Kontakt 6 dll files?


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 10, 2018)

Wherever you tell Native Access your VST folder is.



lpuser said:


> This is weird ... I have both plugins available in my plugin list and NI Access always asks me to specifically upgrade my Player version despite owning the full version. Also, the songs made with Player still load Player ... So you got me fully confused now ...



Well that's weird indeed. It's not supposed to be like that at all.


----------



## Oliver (Oct 10, 2018)

Dear ED (EvilDragon)
i know you dont believe me, but its a fact that patches from TIME Macro are 20-40% less CPU on the Kontakt 6 player than on kontakt 5.8.1 full.

I dont know why that is (only you should know)...
maybe i am going crazy...
no...to be serious its really like this, did several tests on that.

hopefully that will be on kontakt 6 full also.
Maybe someone can test that?


----------



## alanb (Oct 10, 2018)

Thank you very much, TtF, that's extremely helpful, especially with all of the hyperlinking . . .

. . . man, NI's demos do nothing to really sell me on anything other than K6 (which is an inevitability) and Thrill (now I understand all the positive chatter about it... although it reminds me that I haven't yet squeezed out all of Morphestra 2's possibilities).

As for the rest . . . I'd like to be excited about Session Strings Pro 2, but so many of the patches in the video walkthrough sound so synthy, and I can't tell whether it's the patches themselves, or just misapplication of the built-in reverb/EQ/compression/effects, which I wouldn't use.

Ditto Discovery Series: Middle East . . . does its Saz _always_ sound harpsichord-y, or is that they gussied it up poorly for the video? The Ney sounds like it came off of one of my old EIIIx disks. I really like that it lets you play the string instruments in proper scales and tunings (and I'd be pretty intrigued if I could use DS:ME's scale/tuning selction to constrain the scale/tuning of a different VI that I've loaded onto another DAW track), but I can't tell from the one walkthrough video how much it gives me that Ra/Silk doesn't already cover.

The two guitar libraries have some neat features, but I'm not sold on the sound of the guitars themselves... again, I wonder how much of that is due to the way they were amp'd/reverb'd/EQ'd/compress'd/effected/whatever'd for the videos.

Ehhhhhhhh......................


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 10, 2018)

Oliver said:


> Dear ED (EvilDragon)
> i know you dont believe me, but its a fact that patches from TIME Macro are 20-40% less CPU on the Kontakt 6 player than on kontakt 5.8.1 full.
> 
> I dont know why that is (only you should know)...



I already mentioned the one possible cause for the difference would be a different multicore setting in Kontakt. Did you confirm they're identical or different between v5.8.1 and v6?

I don't have any OT libraries so I can't really test that, but stuff that I do have (Spitfire, NI, OTS, Vir2, whatever else, I have a ton), has exactly the same CPU usage between v5.8.1 and v6.



Oliver said:


> hopefully that will be on kontakt 6 full also.



As mentioned above, full version and player version are exactly the same code. Just the license is different.


----------



## KarlHeinz (Oct 10, 2018)

Where do you get the info about the massive expansion for K 12 ? Dont found them in my NI Acess after installation of K 12 update from K 11. Is there a separate mail like with the play instruments for Kontakt ? Then I will have to ask for this cause I dont get it so far.


----------



## Sample logic (Oct 10, 2018)

Brian2112 said:


> I notice Sample Logic Expeditions and Arpology Cinematic seem to be Kontakt 6 casualties (i.e. they don’t work in Kontakt 6). Anybody found any others?



I fear that Kontakt 6 does not auto move the presets folders over for you. You may need to go to the Mac Documents / Native Instruments / Kontakt 5 folder and move those presets folders manually to the Kontakt 6 folder (I am assuming it will be called Kontakt 6?) Please let us know if this resolves the issue.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 10, 2018)

They dropped the number in K6 so the folder would just be called "Kontakt".

And of course Kontakt cannot really keep track of what 3rd party libraries are doing. So the onus is on the developer (and ultimately the user) to do these things. If the libraries in question were Kontakt Player, this would be a non-issue, though


----------



## Sample logic (Oct 10, 2018)

Yes we Just installed our copy of Kontakt 6 and ED is correct the new presets folder location is not Kontakt 6 but rather "kontakt" as the application is now called Kontakt.

To use our non-Kontakt player products in Kontakt 6 you will need to copy the related presets folders from 
users/documents/Native Instruments/Kontakt 5

and paste them into

users/documents/Native Instruments/Kontakt


----------



## Guy Rowland (Oct 10, 2018)

Pure speculation on my part, but I have a sneaking suspicion that - especially with the new numberless Kontakt - there will be no Kontakt 7, but rather... yes, Kontakt X.

Mario's many posts on the legacy code problems lead me to believe that they will just chuck the lot and do something new that is not backwards compatible, a la Massive / Massive X. They'd still likely keep Ye Olde Kontakt supported for many many years, and hopefully give devs some tools to help port the old format to the new.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 10, 2018)

Let's just not start the guessing game too early. 

That same legacy code is the very reason why Kontakt is so damn efficient in the first place. That core isn't going anywhere. UI part just needs to be separated from it and updated to modern standards. "Just".


----------



## Guy Rowland (Oct 10, 2018)

...but easier to port the good bits to a shiny new framework or do all that weeding?

But true, all rather pointless for now as it would be years off before I could look smug...


----------



## Oliver (Oct 10, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> I already mentioned the one possible cause for the difference would be a different multicore setting in Kontakt. Did you confirm they're identical or different between v5.8.1 and v6?
> 
> I don't have any OT libraries so I can't really test that, but stuff that I do have (Spitfire, NI, OTS, Vir2, whatever else, I have a ton), has exactly the same CPU usage between v5.8.1 and v6.
> 
> ...



just did stress testing with a TM patch ( Strings very slow trem) and put slider of timestretch to the right.
guess what...
not playable in kontakt 5 due to "overheating" and clips and crackles all over.
kontakt is just fine with appr. 75% CPU

ah yes, i checked all settings , so that they are really the same!

so something must have happened with the new version.
well if NI doesnt want to tell us, i am happy anyway


----------



## Jake (Oct 10, 2018)

Oliver said:


> just did stress testing with a TM patch ( Strings very slow trem) and put slider of timestretch to the right.
> guess what...
> not playable in kontakt 5 due to "overheating" and clips and crackles all over.
> kontakt is just fine with appr. 75% CPU



I'm curious, how many notes were you playing at once?

I just tried the same (Kontakt 5.8.1) and hit 75% CPU with 5-6 notes simultaneously.

iMac (27-inch, Late 2013)
3.5 GHz Intel Core i7
32 GB 1600 MHz DDR3


----------



## Oliver (Oct 10, 2018)

Jake said:


> I'm curious, how many notes were you playing at once?
> 
> I just tried the same (Kontakt 5.8.1) and hit 75% CPU with 5-6 notes simultaneously.
> 
> ...



i think i did 2 notes if i remember corectly.

here WIN 10 with I7-6700 at 4ghz
64gb ram


----------



## Brian2112 (Oct 10, 2018)

Sample logic said:


> Yes we Just installed our copy of Kontakt 6 and ED is correct the new presets folder location is not Kontakt 6 but rather "kontakt" as the application is now called Kontakt.
> 
> To use our non-Kontakt player products in Kontakt 6 you will need to copy the related presets folders from
> users/documents/Native Instruments/Kontakt 5
> ...


It Works!
@EvilDragon and @Sample logic you guys are awesome! Thanks!


----------



## Jake (Oct 10, 2018)

Oliver said:


> i think i did 2 notes if i remember corectly.
> 
> here WIN 10 with I7-6700 at 4ghz
> 64gb ram



Interesting. I'm no tech guru and haven't kept up with what's what in the past few years, but it appears you've got far more muscle in your machine than I have in mine. So why do I seem to be doing better?

My samples are on a 3TB (3-1TB drives) external that's connected via Thunderbolt (Ver. 1) and the drives are in a OWC Thunderbay 4 mini. Raid 0

For what all that is worth


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Oct 10, 2018)

Brian2112 said:


> It Works!
> @EvilDragon and @Sample logic you guys are awesome! Thanks!


That would explain why I could not find any QuickLoad folders I have made either. Have to go to %AppData%,
then navigate to the *Kontakt 5* folder and copy over to the *Kontakt* folder for the *QuickLoad* entries to show up in *K6
*
Currently I am just using the *Player*, until deals come on *K12U* in the future


----------



## Reid Rosefelt (Oct 10, 2018)

alanb said:


> Thank you very much, TtF, that's extremely helpful, especially with all of the hyperlinking . . .
> 
> . . . man, NI's demos do nothing to really sell me on anything other than K6 (which is an inevitability) and Thrill (now I understand all the positive chatter about it... although it reminds me that I haven't yet squeezed out all of Morphestra 2's possibilities).
> 
> ...


What I like most about Discovery: Middle East are the percussion instruments. A tremendous amount of articulations, rolls, fills, and patterns, the mostI've ever seen on any Middle Eastern percussion instrument. And a lot of instruments--4 darbukas, a Daf, a Daire, a Davul, 4 frame drums, Kudu, Tombak, and 2 Riqs. Very expressive, you can change the fill speed with the modwheel and the roll velocity with Pitch Bend and Aftertouch. This is the library that has sold me more than any other on my ROLI, as it responds to very subtle changes in pressure. 

For sound quality, it can't compete with Evolution Middle East, with its four microphones, but I think it sounds very good. But it also lets you drag out its many MIDI patterns into your DAW, where they can play Evolution, or any drums or percussion you like.

As for the melodic instruments, it seems like they all have a dozen articulations, so what you get out of them might have a lot to do with how much effort you put into your playing. I am getting some nice results with the Oud. By chance, I recently happened upon a guy who gave me an impromptu performance on his Oud. I've never watched anybody play it so close up. (The last time was when I went to "The Band's Visit") He works at this store on 14th Street in NYC, the kind of place where they sell sneakers, t-shirts, sponges and assorted stuff. But he had an Oud and a Darbuka in the window, so I went in. Inside, he was selling a few out of a case in the back from various countries. Chance encounters like this are why I love New York City so much.


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## alanb (Oct 10, 2018)

I was all excited to pay the sneaker/oud guy a visit, tomorrow . . . until I saw the price tag...... _[sigh]_ . . . . .


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## alanb (Oct 10, 2018)

TigerTheFrog said:


> For sound quality, it can't compete with Evolution Middle East, with its four microphones, but I think it sounds very good. But it also lets you drag out its many MIDI patterns into your DAW, where they can play Evolution, or any drums or percussion you like.



. . . and I already have (and love) Evolution's World Percussion 2.0 (I think what's now referred to as "Core"), for which VI:C member @ysnyvz generously posted a number of his own hand-wrought MIDI grooves here, on several occasions. Search for them if you didn't see them at the time!

It's looking more and more like I'll be holding off until lucky K13 comes around.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Oct 11, 2018)

alanb said:


> I was all excited to pay the sneaker/oud guy a visit, tomorrow . . . until I saw the price tag...... _[sigh]_ . . . . .


If it's late and there aren't many customers in the store, I'm sure the guy would be happy to play for you. He said that people were always asking him where they could get one, so he starting importing them. 
The instruments are so beautiful to look at. Each one comes from a different country. He also sells some cheapie little metal Darbukas in the $30-$50 range. 

E&L Sportswear 102 West 14th Street (between 6th and 7th)


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## alanb (Oct 11, 2018)

TigerTheFrog said:


> E&L Sportswear 102 West 14th Street (between 6th and 7th)



One of the few characterful things left on that once-grand cross-street . . . . . thanks for the tip!!


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## Syncopator (Nov 14, 2018)

FWIW, it's 50% off now (until Dec. 2):

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-6/


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## spyder (Nov 15, 2018)

Yes, but the update from K5 is still full price!


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 15, 2018)

spyder said:


> Yes, but the update from K5 is still full price!


Bummer.


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## Consona (Nov 15, 2018)

What's the logic behind that?


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 15, 2018)

Consona said:


> What's the logic behind that?


'Captive Audience' - (they largely don't need to - or at least that's prolly their thinking... :()


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## olmerk (Mar 22, 2019)

It may sound like a stupid question... But was it only my imagination that Kontakt 5.8.1 could open patches created in Kontakt 6? Somehow I've been thinking all this time it was possible. I even thought "how good it is, that NI folks made latest Kontakt 5 and the newest Kontakt 6 cross-compatible"))


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## dzilizzi (Mar 22, 2019)

olmerk said:


> It may sound like a stupid question... But was it only my imagination that Kontakt 5.8.1 could open patches created in Kontakt 6? Somehow I've been thinking all this time it was possible. I even thought "how good it is, that NI folks made latest Kontakt 5 and the newest Kontakt 6 cross-compatible"))


I only have one Kontakt 6 library and it won't open in 5.8. It does, however, work in the Player version. So I use that.


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## EvilDragon (Mar 23, 2019)

olmerk said:


> But was it only my imagination that Kontakt 5.8.1 could open patches created in Kontakt 6?



No, Kontakt never worked like that, it cannot work like that every time new features are added the file format changes.


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