# Libraries for singer/songwriter demos and chamber/orchestral music?



## JoachimL (Oct 7, 2020)

Hi. I write songs (indie / folk / pop / rock) and try to compose a little chamber music.
I'm interested in writing some orchestral stuff too. Qualities in music that I treasure 
are above all tenderness, innocence, and melodic sensibility. 

Currently I own Cinestrings core and Tina Guo solo cello. Have been looking into some 
libraries mentioned here. 

For songwriting I have my eyes on these: Joshua Bell solo violin and Stefania Maratti solo flute. 
Also, I'm interested in piano and harp.

For orchestral music: I think Berlin Inspire 2 sounds nice - I've listened quite a bit to demos - 
and Tundra sounds promising from the description. 

I was planning to use desktop computer, 8th gen i5 and 8gb ram. I also have a laptop with
16 gb ram, but with a slower processor. My DAW is Cubase elements 10.5. Keyboard is 
Novation Impulse 61. 

I only have about $500-600 to spend at the moment. I don't have the full Kontakt platform, btw.

Any suggestions?

Have a nice evening!


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## Marsen (Oct 7, 2020)

JoachimL said:


> I was planning to use desktop computer, 8th gen i5 and 8gb ram. I also have a laptop with 16 gb ram, but with a slower processor.



You say you're planning to use...
I strongly recommend at least 16 GB Ram and i7 cpu regarding desktop.
Joshua Bell alone is over 1 GB Ram.
I5 would be ok from 10th gen, as these suppose to have hyperthreading.

Even with ram friendly libraries as Berlin Inspire, you won't be happy, using 8 GB Ram.
Tundra is beautiful but very wet. If you think that's ok for your style, go for it.

You may also have a look at SStO or BHCT.
Inspire sounds great yes and it is wet, but not as much as Tundra.
In Tundra you have close mics, but I personally don't like their sound.
Spitfire Solo Strings are imho better at close mics and can fit Indie sound.


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## Dionysis (Oct 7, 2020)

For songwriting, I would consider NI Komplete 13(it costs around 600$). It has many sample libraries which fit in the genres you mentioned including instruments like Bass, Drums, Pianos, Organs, Electric/Acoustic Guitars etc. It also includes the full version of Kontakt 6, giving you access not only to the factory Kontakt library (which has some helpful sounds, according to demos) but also to many free and budget sample libraries out there which only work on the Full Kontakt. However, the core version of Komplete doesn't offer what is needed for orchestral music and, since I am interested in buying Komplete as well but also need orchestral sounds, I think Spitfire Studio Orchestra is a good choice as mentioned above. The total cost of these two are way more than your budget but I am sure they will be on sale sooner or later( Spitfire is having big sales during Christmas as far as I know)


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## MarcHedenberg (Oct 8, 2020)

Dionysis said:


> For songwriting, I would consider NI Komplete 13(it costs around 600$). It has many sample libraries which fit in the genres you mentioned including instruments like Bass, Drums, Pianos, Organs, Electric/Acoustic Guitars etc. It also includes the full version of Kontakt 6, giving you access not only to the factory Kontakt library (which has some helpful sounds, according to demos) but also to many free and budget sample libraries out there which only work on the Full Kontakt. However, the core version of Komplete doesn't offer what is needed for orchestral music and, since I am interested in buying Komplete as well but also need orchestral sounds, I think Spitfire Studio Orchestra is a good choice as mentioned above. The total cost of these two are way more than your budget but I am sure they will be on sale sooner or later( Spitfire is having big sales during Christmas as far as I know)



I'm a Komplete Ultimate owner myself and think that either regular Komplete or Ultimate is kind of a prerequisite for any songwriters, unless you own Logic, which does give you a pretty generous library of instruments, even if it doesn't all sound immaculate. Komplete gives you a very comprehensive starting ground and outside of orchestral stuff, I haven't felt too compelled to buy any more bass guitar/piano/drum/EQ/Compressor/etc. plugins.

It's a hefty price tag, but if you can get it on sale, it's absolutely worth the investment.


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## penfever (Oct 8, 2020)

Depends to some extent on how ambitious you are with regards to realism. For instance, exposed solo strings almost NEVER sound quite right with sample libraries. To get that Bright Eyes/Sufjan Stevens sound, there's really no substitute for getting a skilled musician in the room. OTOH, if you're making demo mockups and planning to record in the studio later, I think the OP's suggestion of the most recent Komplete makes sense, since the bundle now includes decent solo strings.

Tundra's best sounds are slow, soft and evolving -- they're really more cinematic than intimate, even with close mics. The Spitfire Alt Solo Strings have some very cool articulations if you want a more modern edge, but they're not useful for melodic work. Xsample remains the premier dev for modern string arranging -- articulations sound great and are all bone dry -- but their instruments aren't easy to use. Two other devs you should check out -- 8Dio and Red Room Audio. RRA's most recent fiddle is incredible, there's nothing like it on the market for a Dave Matthews vibe.

The news gets a lot better when you shift over to the brass and woodwinds, where there are many fantastic and flexible solo instruments. Sample Modeling's instruments are the best, but they ain't cheap, and they don't go on sale very often. 8Dio's Fire Trumpet is fantastic. Screaming Trumpet is cool, but niche.

Vienna's out of your budget unless you're a student, but they're also worth a mention.


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## JoachimL (Oct 8, 2020)

Thanks for the advice, guys. I will check out your recommendations, and try to think a bit. 

A little disappointing that I'd need to upgrade my desktop to use Berlin Inspire 2.
I have an all-in-one desktop. A local computer shop said they'd charge up to $250
for installing another 8 gb of ram, because it's more complicated with the all-in-ones.
Maybe it's a stupid question - but could I get away with only 8 gb of ram, 
if I didn't write for the full orchestra? I don't see myself writing for percussion or low brass.
Low woodwinds might not be the first instruments I'd write for either.

Also when it comes to songwriting, I don't use a lot of instruments, tracks or effects.
Again, I'm aiming at creating demos (decent sounding ones). If the arrangements turn out nice,
then I hope to have the songs recorded in a proper studio later.

Thanks again.


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## Marsen (Oct 8, 2020)

Please don't do that.
Even if you don't use whole orchestras, you will get yourself in trouble with 8gb.
Go for 16gb. This should work.


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## Marsen (Oct 8, 2020)

I wonder: They charge 250 for 8gb?

I just ordered 64Gb for 214!?


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## Dionysis (Oct 8, 2020)

JoachimL said:


> Thanks for the advice, guys. I will check out your recommendations, and try to think a bit.
> 
> A little disappointing that I'd need to upgrade my desktop to use Berlin Inspire 2.
> I have an all-in-one desktop. A local computer shop said they'd charge up to $250
> ...


I have 8 gb of RAM too (being a hobbyist and student it has not been urgent to upgrade) but I can say that 8 gb are really limiting, even if you mainly use a small amount of tracks and lightweight libraries.

Think of a case where you are done with a song using 10-15 (let's say) tracks. Your RAM can handle it. And then you come up with the idea that one more instrument would make the difference in the song but the RAM is almost full. You will need to export the project, create a new one, record/program the new track seperately, then export again, move back to the previous project etc(I had to do it for my Westworld Competition entry). It's a boring process which may reduce your creativity or even stop you from adding this new instrument/track. Of course the Freeze function in Cubase may help on that to a degree.Apart from that, the requirements are getting bigger day by day so 16 gb will be the standard for most computer users sooner or later

Regarding the price your local store asks for the ram upgrade, I agree that it's harder to upgrade an all-in-one desktop, but maybe it shouldn't be this much harder for a professional to justify such a price?(I would definetely ask for a second opinion).


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## FlyingAndi (Oct 9, 2020)

Dionysis said:


> You will need to export the project, create a new one, record/program the new track seperately, then export again, move back to the previous project etc(I had to do it for my Westworld Competition entry). It's a boring process which may reduce your creativity or even stop you from adding this new instrument/track. Of course the Freeze function in Cubase may help on that to a degree.


I've started recording music on my computer in 1997. At that time the amount of RAM was counted in MB not GB. Of course sample libraries weren't that huge.
But I never had to create new project for a new track. Freezing or bouncing (cakewalk didn't have a freeze feature at that time) has always worked for me to save RAM or CPU. Of course it sucks if you need to go back and make changes to tracks that were already frozen.

If exchanged RAM a number of times on laptops. Search on YouTube for a tutorial for your all in one pc. Maybe it's not that hard and all you need is a fancy screwdriver.
Make sure you get the right RAM though. RAM manufacturers usually have some online tool that will tell you which of their products will fit for your pc.


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## Trensharo (Oct 24, 2020)

Dionysis said:


> For songwriting, I would consider NI Komplete 13(it costs around 600$). It has many sample libraries which fit in the genres you mentioned including instruments like Bass, Drums, Pianos, Organs, Electric/Acoustic Guitars etc. It also includes the full version of Kontakt 6, giving you access not only to the factory Kontakt library (which has some helpful sounds, according to demos) but also to many free and budget sample libraries out there which only work on the Full Kontakt. However, the core version of Komplete doesn't offer what is needed for orchestral music and, since I am interested in buying Komplete as well but also need orchestral sounds, I think Spitfire Studio Orchestra is a good choice as mentioned above. The total cost of these two are way more than your budget but I am sure they will be on sale sooner or later( Spitfire is having big sales during Christmas as far as I know)


You can get IKM Total Studio MAX 2 for $250 right now. OP should consider that.

Sample Libraries are RAM heavy. 16 GB should be considered a practical minimum. RAM is cheap, these days.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 25, 2020)

If you have listened to my pop songs in the member's compositions forum and like how they sound, PM and I will tell you what I used.


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## jaketanner (Oct 25, 2020)

First...with 8 gigs of Ram, as others have mentioned...you need to optimize and will certainly be limited. Not like you can do a ton of tracks anyway unless you render, since Elements is limited to 24 VST tracks anyway. 

Stick with Kontakt libraries and here's why...you can purge out the unwanted/used samples and can get good mileage from it...I would also look into RAM friendly libraries such as those from Pianoteq, Sample Modeling, Aaron Venture...etc. JB violin is excellent...but maybe start with the Essential version as it's a lighter footprint and also quite powerful. Lots of free libraries also that are light on RAm...BBC Core or even Discover.

If sticking with your current PC is a must for now, I strongly suggest to NOT buy into too many libraries at the moment...use smaller, less expensive ones first...go for Sonivox or use the VSTs that come with Elements. Use the free version of Halion and possibly Sampletank 4...they each come with a few gigs of sounds and are light on Ram and useful...but of course there is a give and take with quality and playability.


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## JoachimL (Oct 25, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> If you have listened to my pop songs in the member's compositions forum and like how they sound, PM and I will tell you what I used.



Hey. Thanks for your help. I tried to PM you, but I wasn't entitled to PM anyone except staff members.
Probably because I'm new to the forum? I listened to some of your songs on YouTube, and the excerpts from "Honestly". You have a nice voice and seem to write good songs. However, our styles differ a bit. For now, I think my song arrangements will primarily include guitar (which I can record at home), solo cello, strings, organ, and piano. Buying libraries with solo violin, solo flute, and piano would be nice. (I recently bought strings, organ, piano, and combined children's and women's choir - Orchestral Tools and Spitfire Audio stuff.) Also, I think I will prioritize songwriting over learning to write for orchestra for now. Thanks again. Have a nice evening.


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## Trensharo (Oct 28, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> First...with 8 gigs of Ram, as others have mentioned...you need to optimize and will certainly be limited. Not like you can do a ton of tracks anyway unless you render, since Elements is limited to 24 VST tracks anyway.
> 
> Stick with Kontakt libraries and here's why...you can purge out the unwanted/used samples and can get good mileage from it...I would also look into RAM friendly libraries such as those from Pianoteq, Sample Modeling, Aaron Venture...etc. JB violin is excellent...but maybe start with the Essential version as it's a lighter footprint and also quite powerful. Lots of free libraries also that are light on RAm...BBC Core or even Discover.
> 
> If sticking with your current PC is a must for now, I strongly suggest to NOT buy into too many libraries at the moment...use smaller, less expensive ones first...go for Sonivox or use the VSTs that come with Elements. Use the free version of Halion and possibly Sampletank 4...they each come with a few gigs of sounds and are light on Ram and useful...but of course there is a give and take with quality and playability.


SONiVOX is heavy on RAM and not multi-timbral. 

Thats not going to work well with 8GB RAM. He will be swapping before he plays a note.


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## jaketanner (Oct 28, 2020)

Trensharo said:


> SONiVOX is heavy on RAM and not multi-timbral


Damn is it really? I haven't used it in years...and when I did it was with my 8 gig system...although I didn't really use it extensively, just going by memory.


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