# Recording Studio for Local High School



## chillbot (Mar 21, 2018)

THIS is all because of THIS.

So there is a group of us setting up a recording studio in the high school.

We are wiring the main big orchestra room for recording, a smaller chamber room, and a bunch of practice rooms that can be used as iso-booths. As well as a main control room (featuring... The Desk). And every room will be wired for video as well. We have raised enough to have a budget of about 90k, 30k of which we've already spent on wiring and video and ethernet everywhere. Also redoing the walls and paint and storage, etc, a total much-needed makeover.

Our main goal is to be able to record the band and orchestra, but additionally to teach them engineering and recording, and additionally to set up a DAW so they can write with or use to produce or even just sweeten recordings.

The problem is, we should hire a real consultant, but, we all seem to think we know just enough about it to know what we are doing. I think there is a music editor, and an engineer, and a music teacher, and some tech guys, and me. I would much appreciate your input in certain directions.

They want to go Apple and want to go Pro Tools. These are probably non-negotiable. I don't really mind, to be honest. Pro Tools is no longer the standard that it was once, and really doesn't do anything that any other DAW can't do. But it is Pro Tools, and it is something that might translate after high school, and it is fairly intuitive and easy-to-learn. I think the biggest reason NOT to go Pro Tools is cost, but if we have the budget for it then why not.

They also are leaving the DAW software up to me (because I pushed hard for having something else besides Pro Tools) but we are looking at one of the "big three" (Logic, Cubase, DP) so please I don't want to hear your Reaper suggestions right at this time.

Help!

1) Computer. I don't know Macs at all. What specs would you recommend for a computer that could run Pro Tools, Cubase or equivalent, and handle Komplete and maybe a basic library like Albion One. It would need to be able to record in Pro Tools probably 35-40 tracks at once. We will have decent audio hardware.

One of the guys wants us to get two iMacs and run a DAW on one and PT on the other. He wants to link them together such that you compose in the DAW and then bounce it down to the PT rig. I'm not sure I get this. I do like the concept of getting two computers so that two kids could work at once but the control room is pretty small (seats maybe 5-6 at a time) and I might push for one nice computer to start that does both. So, specs?

2) One guy thinks it's important to go 5.1. Not sure I get this either. Seems overly complicated for the kids who are only essentially passing through the program. We get them a few hours a week for a couple years. Thoughts?

3) DAW software. Of the "big three"... easiest to learn? Most useful? I'm leaning towards Cubase because of the tech I might hire to help run it is a Cubase guy. Also tied in to:

4) Are the notation programs in any of those do-able, just to be able to print out simple parts? Or do we need to get a dedicated notation program? Which one? I don't notate, so... no idea. Cost is less of an issue on this, they are pretty fair about edu discounts. My question is, do we need to have THREE different programs for them to learn or could they get by without it. Or maybe it's just there for the kids that really want to get into composition. But I still would like to know which of those three have pass-able notation, if any.

5) I want them to get Komplete Ultimate and I think that's plenty to start. Something for everybody. A couple of the guys mentioned Spitfire because they heard that "Spitfire was the best". So... I guess I can get them Albion ONE if they really want. What would you recommend?

Thanks a ton for any help!


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## chillbot (Mar 21, 2018)

Oh and gear-wise we are mostly covered, that's the easier part.

But the 61-key keyboard I donated that fits on that stupid desk isn't much. But it's all that fits. It has mod wheels at least.

6) Tied into the DAW, should we get a control surface and what do you recommend? Think first and foremost, do we need one, and, EASE OF USE. Was looking at either the Presonus Faderport 16 or the Mackie MCU Pro but do you think this is too complicated of a setup or do you think the kids will "get it". For the most part I am going on the assumption that these kids are all smarter than me. Is there a simpler one I should consider?


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## robgb (Mar 21, 2018)

You should have Reaper on that list. A) because it's fantastic; and B) because of the low cost, $60 a pop for educational institutions. At that cost you could have several copies available for the price of a single Pro Tools.


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## FriFlo (Mar 21, 2018)

Nice move! I'd say, first there is the question wether Mac or or Windows. If the staff is good with PCs, I would choose Windows. Mac is probably a little bit less difficult to maintain. Then, I would choose Logic for Mac or Cubase (maybe even Reaper) for PC. Logic is so cheap and the school won't have any costs for upgrading to newer versions. Definitively N O T Protools! Expensive! Limitations without HD! etc!!!
Notation is a good idea for a school. Right now, Sibelius has probably more to offer for a school, like creating worksheets by teachers. If those features can wait, I'd pick Dorico.


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## DavidY (Mar 21, 2018)

chillbot said:


> 4) Are the notation programs in any of those do-able, just to be able to print out simple parts? Or do we need to get a dedicated notation program? Which one? I don't notate, so... no idea. Cost is less of an issue on this, they are pretty fair about edu discounts. My question is, do we need to have THREE different programs for them to learn or could they get by without it. Or maybe it's just there for the kids that really want to get into composition. But I still would like to know which of those three have pass-able notation, if any.


Disclaimer that I've never tried to use it for anything big such as orchestral parts. I'm just a hobbyist and only really used it for simple messing about.
But what about MuseScore?
It's free (so they could work on scores at home) and cross-platform for Mac/Windows. (I've only tried the Windows version)
Or is it something which isn't up to scratch for the kind of task you have in mind? I'm sure there are folks on here who will have tested it much more thoroughly than I have.


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## wst3 (Mar 21, 2018)

Sounds like quite the challenge! More the possibility of too many chiefs?<G> (is this the reward for your generous donation?)

If this is primarily a recording/mixing application I'm not sure there is a huge difference between the major platforms. While I wouldn't recommend PT, that is sorta what it excels at. I still would not inflict it on high school students. The two machine approach you described is (or was?) really common. I think the various platforms have all matured to the point where it really isn't necessary anymore.

VEPro - if you are teaching them about production from sample libraries then it is probably a good idea to let them at least see VEPro in action. Even if it is a single machine studio to start.

Control surface - I wish there really was a great one to recommend. I've become quite fond of Softube Console 1, but it is a tracking tool, maybe slightly useful for mixing, but you don't get faders. The Presonus gear works well, and is pretty simple to set up and use. But then that opens the door to Studio One, with which it integrates brilliantly. You didn't mention an audio interface, but if you head down that road you might want to look at their latest mixers, which do double duty as control surfaces.

Stay away from surround unless there is a really compelling reason, and I can't think of one. Designing the monitoring environment for 5.1 is three times more difficult than for stereo, and stereo ain't easy. It's also more difficult to mix for surround (although it is a ton of fun), and that's probably not a good starting place.

Notation - are you talking about creating real scores and parts or just using standard notation for input? If the former Logic is OK, until it isn't. You really need a full on notation tool to create parts. For input I'd use the built in notation tools in whatever sequencer you choose - moving between Finale/Sibelius/Dorico and any MIDI platform is still far from easy.

Komplete Ultimate and Albion ONE sounds like a fantastic starting point. And you probably don't NEED Albion One, but it might be a good idea to expose them to that approach as well.

It really does sound like fun, if you can keep everyone focused.

Please report back!


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## FriFlo (Mar 21, 2018)

chillbot said:


> 1) Computer. I don't know Macs at all. What specs would you recommend for a computer that could run Pro Tools, Cubase or equivalent, and handle Komplete and maybe a basic library like Albion One. It would need to be able to record in Pro Tools probably 35-40 tracks at once. We will have decent audio hardware.
> 
> One of the guys wants us to get two iMacs and run a DAW on one and PT on the other. He even wants to link them together such that you compose in the DAW and then bounce it down to the PT rig. I don't really get this. I do like the concept of getting two computers so that two kids could work at once but the control room is pretty small (seats maybe 5-6 at a time) and I might push for one nice computer to start that does both. So, specs?



Right now, an iMac would probably be a good solution. It depends on the needs ... I personally wouldn't want an all in one machine, but price-wise it is a good option. Why two iMacs? If the priority is recording, one of those machines will hardly be used ... and if students use it to compose with VIs one decently specd iMac will be fine! 
Top line iMac 27 inch is about $2300 in its base configuration. If there is enough money, choose big 1-2tb) SSD (no fusion drive!) inside, upgrade RAM to 32 or even 64gb and buy an external Raid array with about 4 HDs for projects. Maybe and additional Backup raid array would be good, too.



chillbot said:


> 2) Another guy is insisting it's important to go 5.1. I don't really get this either. Seems overly complicated for the kids who are only essentially passing through the program. We get them a few hours a week for a couple years. Thoughts?


No ... I get the feeling, this guy wants that for himself ...  Stereo is fine for a school! Better buy good monitors and spend some money on acoustic treatment (better to be planned before doing walls etc ...).



chillbot said:


> 3) DAW software. Of the "big three"... easiest to learn? Most useful? I'm leaning towards Cubase because of the tech I might hire to help run it is a Cubase guy. Also tied in to:


Cubase is good for PC. If you go for a Mac, you could try logic first, as it also works great (on a Mac) and will be cheapest on the long run (only, if you go for Apple anyway, of course)



chillbot said:


> 4) Are the notation programs in any of those do-able, just to be able to print out simple parts? Or do we need to get a dedicated notation program? Which one? I don't notate, so... no idea. Cost is less of an issue on this, they are pretty fair about edu discounts. My question is, do we need to have THREE different programs for them to learn or could they get by without it. Or maybe it's just there for the kids that really want to get into composition. But I still would like to know which of those three have pass-able notation, if any.


I would say, a rotation program is an invaluable tool for kids to learn. But for simple notation, both Cubase and Logic are pretty good.



chillbot said:


> 5) I want them to get Komplete Ultimate and I think that's plenty to start. Something for everybody. A couple of the guys mentioned Spitfire, they don't know anything about samples but they "heard that Spitfire was the best". So... I guess I can get them Albion ONE if they really want. What would you recommend?


Excelent choice! I would rather spend money on things that are important for recording. Sample libraries are great for us, but in a school, I would only buy basic samples, which are all covered in Komplete Ultimate. Spitfire and Orchestral tools and what not are great, but to specialized. Rather buy a breath controller (or for wind players a wind controller - Akai EWI) and stuff like that, so that those kids can jam in a group.


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## micrologus (Mar 21, 2018)

Notation software: +1 for MuseScore. We use it in our high school, it's free and works very well.


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## chillbot (Mar 21, 2018)

FriFlo said:


> Rather buy a breath controller (or for wind players a wind controller - Akai EWI) and stuff like that, so that those kids can jam in a group.


Oh that's a good idea, never occurred to me. If there is any budget left at the end I will push for a wind controller... the kids would have a blast with that.


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## chillbot (Mar 21, 2018)

I appreciate the input, I need some ammunition when I tell this guy we're not doing his 5.1 thing. So it helps when I can say "look I've talked with 10 people and they all say we don't need 5.1". Even my sweetwater guy recommended not doing 5.1, and that would seemingly go against his best interests.


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## synthpunk (Mar 21, 2018)

I like the iMac idea. I would get it with at least 16 gigabyte of RAM, SSD, etc. the current 27 inch model is pretty good. If needed I can pm you info of a very good Mac Consultant in LA.

There is a predominant thinking out there that if you use a Daw other than Pro Tools that you need another machine to bounce down to Pro Tools because that is the preferred mixing medium in the world today. If you have a good enough machine (imac may just be on the fringe though) you should be able to run a good Daw & Pro Tools side by side. If you go this route I might suggest a Mac Pro.

5.1 should be unnecessary at this point IMO.

I suggest Logic X it's only $200 and it also has a lot of other cool stuff that the kids can learn on it like drummer and various synthesizers from extrnsive to simple like EXS-24, ES-2, and Retrosynth, ipad integration, etc.

I would also suggest investing in the best possible security system and video you can and also making sure that the computers are secured to the studio.


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## chillbot (Mar 21, 2018)

synthpunk said:


> I would also suggest investing in the best possible security system and video you can and also making sure that the computers are secured to the studio.


Yes this is already on my list. Take a $2,000 computer and start installing and licensing $5,000+ worth of software on it, that is quite the tempting little toy to walk off with.



synthpunk said:


> I like the iMac idea. I would get it with at least 16 gigabyte of RAM, SSD, etc. the current 27 inch model is pretty good.


In this age I think I would want 64gb of RAM. But if you think an iMac is ok. The ones at sweetwater come with 8gb but we can upgrade this right?



synthpunk said:


> I suggest Logic X it's only $200 and it also has a lot of other cool stuff that the kids can learn on it like drummer and various synthesizers from to simple like EXS-24, ES-2, and Retrosynth, ipad integration, etc.


Cubase comes with tons of cool toys and synths too, though. And $350 with edu discount is pretty decent. And don't forget all the toys in Komplete...


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## chillbot (Mar 21, 2018)

micrologus said:


> Notation software: +1 for MuseScore. We use it in our high school, it's free and works very well


Easy.


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## Farkle (Mar 21, 2018)

Notation wise, here's what the Uarts Faculty generally says:

Finale is used predominantly in the Music Theatre/Broadway community. Sibelius is used predominantly in the Film/TV commnunity.

Yes, I'm sure JJP will be arguing this point (  ), but I've only used Sibelius, all the composers I've worked with in LA use Sibelius. So I vote Sibelius for your notation.

Re: Bounce to Pro Tools, Digital Performer has an OMF export (or something like that) which is specifically designed to export audio and formatting for import into Pro Tools. FWIW. I'm pretty sure Cubase has some sort of Pro Tools export as well, but I don't _know_ that.

Re: built in plugins, synths, etc. Most of the kids (I think), will immediately jump to the Komplete synths and plugins, and not use the built in Logic or DP or Pro Tools synths. This is based solely upon me watching my students at UArts, but it is based upon me watching about 100 students over the last 6 years, so its a bit of a sample group.  So, I would base my DAW purchase on price, workflow, professional industry upsell path, and FX plugins (Compressor, EQ, etc); the synths and samples don't really get used that often (unless you're Darren Korb, look him up). 

Mike


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Mar 21, 2018)

Please please please don't go with the second computer running Pro Tools to record into or anything like that. Those days are long gone and that's unnecessary. Please don't teach these students that that's how things should be done.

iMac would be good but a mac mini may be good enough as well. 16GB should be more than enough for them.

Definitely have Pro Tools. No 5.1 as IMO that would be completely pointless here and never used. Probably not much of a reason to have VEP. Unnecessarily complicated for high school students or a recording studio. It seems like you're trying to put in a massive composer's setup which is unnecessary and would probably never get used to it's full potential.

I think one important consideration would be connectivity for the students' own computers. Maybe using a USB interface so that people with PC laptops can plug in directly. Even just a 3.5mm cable permanently hooked up so they can just plug in via that.

I think Cubase could be a good idea since it has the various versions. That way people can buy the cheaper versions for their own computers and then open up sessions or work on something at home and bring it back in.

A Faderport could be a good option or the Artist Mix.

I think the bottom line is to keep things as simple as possible. The university that I went to had a number of courses dealing with electronic music in their "studio" (more like classrooms) and things were unnecessarily complicated so students wouldn't understand how things worked and couldn't work on anything at home. Things like 3 RME interfaces wired together to get enough outputs where the correct routing would get constantly messed up, a digital mixer which no one knew how to operate, no proper support for the surround formats they were making us work in (like 8.0 or 20.0), and only Logic. They'd talk about how a digital mixer is absolutely necessary and Logic and Max are the ultimate programs that everyone uses and is all that you should know.


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## chillbot (Mar 21, 2018)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Please please please don't go with the second computer running Pro Tools to record into or anything like that. Those days are long gone and that's unnecessary. Please don't teach these students that that's how things should be done.


This is my thought.


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## trumpoz (Mar 21, 2018)

Another vote for MuseScore here.

I'm going to suggest an Avid Artist Mix as a control surface as I know of schools using them in Melbourne (Oz) and the students got their heads around them quickly.


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## Jdiggity1 (Mar 21, 2018)

Go for broke.
27" iMac upgraded to i7 and 64GB RAM + another display (preferably 27"). If the funds don't quite cover it drop back to 32GB RAM. That shit's expensive.

ProTools is a given. Everyone needs to at least know what it is, and it doesn't take long to get a handle on it for recording purposes.
For the 2nd DAW, it's always going to be a tough choice between Logic and Cubase. Both will be more than capable at performing the required tasks, as well as preparing the students for the 'professional' world. While I personally prefer Cubase, I can see the value in Logic for a system that won't be fully decked with 3rd party plugins and sample libraries. Logic easily wins when it comes to included content (something like 80Gb or so these days?) and combined with Komplete Ultimate and Omnisphere should cover all bases. If i had my way though I'd have logic, cubase, and Ableton live all installed.

The good thing about Cubase and VEP, is that you can have them installed without paying for a license. The nerdy students who want to use those programs can bring in their own dongle, and hook up their laptop to stream their own samples if they're unsatisfied with what's on offer. (this was my exact scenario when studying)

I see a lot of "this is unnecessary for a school" thinking. I get that, but that's the sort of thinking that really pissed me off when I was a student. Granted, this is *just *a high school, not an audio production college, but i wouldn't impose 'limits' on the students based on "i don't think anybody will use that".
I'd be more inclined to facilitate growth and exploration. Not all students will benefit from that, but there might be one every couple of years who really gets into it and flourishes. A 5.1 monitoring system won't get used most of the time. That's easy to bypass and those who don't want to worry about 5.1 don't have to. But it's still an audio concept that I feel students would benefit from simply knowing about and spending a day playing around with it.
And when the nerd wants to do some 5.1 soundscape stuff for a final project, or re-do the audio for one of his favourite trailers, the facility is there.
If the money's not there for it, then that's a different story. But i'd be setting the bar as high as I possibly could, instead of aiming for adequacy.

As far as notation, I agree with Ferkle and vote Sibelius. Don't bother with musescore if it's not used in the professional world. Sure, musescore or the DAW's notation can print parts for their internal band stuff, but if preparing for the "real world" is of any priority, it would be silly not to have one of the 'big players', just the same with the choice of DAW. Schools are supposed to equip students with knowledge and skills needed for when they leave school, right? Setting up their own functional but unique environment is counter-productive, in my view.

Control Surface? I dunno. If the keyboard's got enough controls for CC fiddling, I'd be happy with one touch sensitive motorized fader for writing automation, a la faderport. But we all love flashy lights so I'd go the behringer X-Touch compact.


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## chillbot (Mar 21, 2018)

Jdiggity1 said:


> I'd go the behringer X-Touch compact.


I like this idea. It looks simple.

I get what you're saying, but it's important to remember these are high school kids. So we're not really hoping to "prepare them for the real world" but maybe expose them to something new and different, and then give the few that respond some toys to play with. That said, I have no idea what high school kids are doing these days. When I was in high school, I was the only composer in the school of 2,500 kids. And it wasn't until my senior year that I finally wrote a piece for graduation for full orchestra. This school, which is technically 7th grade to 12th grade, has 8th graders that are writing quality chamber music, so who knows.

My worry is to overwhelm them with too much stuff, I'd rather worry about adding stuff later. Pro Tools, plus another DAW, plus a control surface, plus all of komplete ultimate, plus 30+ mic returns, that's a LOT... now you add in 5.1 etc etc...


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## synthpunk (Mar 21, 2018)

The more RAM the merrier and certainly cheaper buying it from Crucial on Amazon than from Apple. Check with your store I'm a little behind expandibility these days on that.

If available make sure they have a good insurance policy for everything possible as well.

Be extremely careful of the ilok as well.

Is there anywhere we can make a contribution to this btw?

Behringer Xtouch or PreSonus Faderport are both pretty good ( just check about PT implementation). Avid artist series also still works.

Do you need any recommendations for recording books, educational material, Etc? Or is it not going to be that formal?



chillbot said:


> Yes this is already on my list. Take a $2,000 computer and start installing and licensing $5,000+ worth of software on it, that is quite the tempting little toy to walk off with.
> 
> 
> In this age I think I would want 64gb of RAM. But if you think an iMac is ok. The ones at sweetwater come with 8gb but we can upgrade this right?
> ...


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## Jdiggity1 (Mar 21, 2018)

chillbot said:


> I like this idea. It looks simple.
> 
> I get what you're saying, but it's important to remember these are high school kids. So we're not really hoping to "prepare them for the real world" but maybe expose them to something new and different, and then give the few that respond some toys to play with. That said, I have no idea what high school kids are doing these days. When I was in high school, I was the only composer in the school of 2,500 kids. And it wasn't until my senior year that I finally wrote a piece for graduation for full orchestra. This school, which is technically 7th grade to 12th grade, has 8th graders that are writing quality chamber music, so who knows.
> 
> My worry is to overwhelm them with too much stuff, I'd rather worry about adding stuff later. Pro Tools, plus another DAW, plus a control surface, plus all of komplete ultimate, plus 30+ mic returns, that's a LOT... now you add in 5.1 etc etc...



I am likely doing the same thing the techie there is doing, and taking it personally. *I* would have loved the 5.1 setup and used it. And *I* wish my school had better facilities for *me *to play with.
I still don't see how the 5.1 thing is overwhelming, unless you want them to hook it all up? I figured it would just _be there_. They don't have to do anything with it. "oh my gosh look at all these speakers I can't handle myself"


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Mar 21, 2018)

Jdiggity1 said:


> I figured it would just _be there_.


So what's the point of it being there? Why is it worth the expense and space it takes up? In a high school, you'll probably never get to the point of being able to show how it all works or anything. Going over how everything else works will probably already take more time than you have with the students. If a student wants to learn on their own, then yes but that would probably never happen.

The recording booth at one of the concert halls here (really nice hall) has a 5.1 system in it and I'm probably the only person to have used it in the past 10 years. They essentially just brought in an iMac and an interface hooked up directly to the stereo speakers to bypass all of the racks of gear, monitor controller, and Sadie computer system because there wasn't any need for it for any of the courses that got taught in that room and they'd never have the time to explain things to the students. Even just getting an RME interface to work seems to be challenging for university students starting off after an entire course in recording.


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## NoamL (Mar 21, 2018)

Notice the strong lack of people speaking up for DP? Hmmm, is it really considered one of the "big three" anymore? I heard Messrs Giacchino, Elfman, Desplat and Shore still use it...

IMO LogicX should be considered on the basis that it comes with such good stock plugins. They can even get into one shot sampling with EXS24. Cubase probably has the brightest future of any DAW narrowly beating Logic because it's not locked into Apple's future pro mac strategy. But, since you are locking yourself into Apple anyway, why not Logic?


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## synthpunk (Mar 21, 2018)

Tell the guy if Harry Gregson-Williams doesn't need 5.1 neither does he.

If it becomes a bigger priority you can always add it as a stage 2.


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## NoamL (Mar 21, 2018)

Oh, and I'd say Sibelius is narrowly better than Finale, but either are far preferable to some jank freeware that will only make them have to relearn notation programming once they get to college.


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## NoamL (Mar 21, 2018)

(Saying this as someone who started writing music on Harmony Assistant! Bet nobody's ever heard of it)


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## Farkle (Mar 21, 2018)

chillbot said:


> I like this idea. It looks simple.
> 
> I get what you're saying, but it's important to remember these are high school kids. So we're not really hoping to "prepare them for the real world" but maybe expose them to something new and different, and then give the few that respond some toys to play with. That said, I have no idea what high school kids are doing these days. When I was in high school, I was the only composer in the school of 2,500 kids. And it wasn't until my senior year that I finally wrote a piece for graduation for full orchestra. This school, which is technically 7th grade to 12th grade, has 8th graders that are writing quality chamber music, so who knows.
> 
> My worry is to overwhelm them with too much stuff, I'd rather worry about adding stuff later. Pro Tools, plus another DAW, plus a control surface, plus all of komplete ultimate, plus 30+ mic returns, that's a LOT... now you add in 5.1 etc etc...



Oh, man, if this is a facet, then you should really look at Ableton Live and Bitwig. Cause if you want something that kids are "playing around with", and using as a starter DAW, Ableton, Bitwig, and probably FL Studio are HUGE right now. 

Again, going to back to me at UArts, we now have Ableton licenses, and Ableton classes, because so many students are coming in with knowledge, and composing experience from that DAW.

So, a serious question, do you want to give them a sandbox to play in, a "route" to understand potential future professional DAW environments, or a little bit of both? It's probably not a big deal if you go with one route, and don't necessarily "be all things to all people", but it's important to understand "what the young kids are playing with" nowadays. It Ain't Garageband, but it also ain't Logic...

Mike


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## chillbot (Mar 21, 2018)

I never feel like these polls work out real well on Vi-C but I'm real happy with this one. I have a meeting tomorrow night and I am going to print out the poll results tomorrow as actual EVIDENCE of a smart community voting on what we should do. Might wind up going with both Logic and Cubase both, the price is negligible compared to the overall project. This will make the guys involved happy, and easy to add Ableton later if that's what the kids want.


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## Jdiggity1 (Mar 21, 2018)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> So what's the point of it being there? Why is it worth the expense and space it takes up? In a high school, you'll probably never get to the point of being able to show how it all works or anything. Going over how everything else works will probably already take more time than you have with the students. If a student wants to learn on their own, then yes but that would probably never happen.



It doesn't have to be expensive. It's 3 extra tannoys or whatever. Still cheaper than the difference between 32 and 64gb ram.
I don't really understand the rest... kinda looks like saying stuff without really saying anything.

Maybe the point of the whole room has been lost on me. Is it specifically a composition studio? a recording studio? or a multi-purpose audio/music suite with the potential to expand and cater for future coursework that has not yet been considered? I've been approaching it as if it were the latter.
Admittedly I've also just had the seniors in mind. Hey I'm in a different country after all, maybe high school means something completely different to me? 
Anyway I'm not saying 5.1 should be a high priority, put it at the bottom of the list. But it shouldn't be dismissed as useless. We have people who say "I wouldn't use it", and others who say "I would use it".



Gerhard Westphalen said:


> ...there wasn't any need for it for any of the courses that got taught in that room and they'd never have the time to explain things to the students. Even just getting an RME interface to work seems to be challenging for university students starting off after an entire course in recording.



Maybe the college students couldn't work an interface because their high school deemed one 'unnecessary'? I'm not sure what the point is. Some people are hopeless, the rest will work it all out by themselves?
As for the "time to explain" thing, apart from me believing it really won't take all that long (can cover it in one lesson), chillbot mentioned the room will be able to be booked out by students to use in their own time. This is going to be how the room is used most - no teachers, no lessons, just enthusiastic students playing around and teaching themselves.


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## synthpunk (Mar 21, 2018)

You know don't laugh but having a few iPads around with GarageBand on them is a good idea as well. Kids love these devices and they're very easy to learn on. Just don't put any games on them lol


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## micrologus (Mar 22, 2018)

Consider the "Pro Apps Bundle for Education": 199 $ for Logic, Mainstage, Final Cut Pro, Motion, Compressor.
Link: https://www.apple.com/us-hed/shop/product/BMGE2Z/A/pro-apps-bundle-for-education


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## sinkd (Mar 22, 2018)

+1 for adding Ableton to the setup. With a USB hub you could have multiple MIDI controllers hooked up, with each student performing on their own VI channel. Get q 49 key controller, a USB EWI, a grid controller like Push or a Launchpad. They will have a blast and I guarantee blow you away with creativity! AND + 1 for Pro Apps.


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## synthpunk (Mar 22, 2018)

https://www.maclocks.com/imac-locks/imac-security-cable-lock.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwqM3VBRCwARIsAKcekb2VFnzbrW2Snkf3-EtONW9qxceIlwtswJjGLSgySuIHI723okndfnUaAgV6EALw_wcB

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/ho...o-security-in-educational-institutions-part-3



chillbot said:


> Yes this is already on my list. Take a $2,000 computer and start installing and licensing $5,000+ worth of software on it, that is quite the tempting little toy to walk off with.


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## synthpunk (Mar 22, 2018)

Some very good books that I've been recommended by people who teach recording.

http://amzn.to/2pC2NmT
http://amzn.to/2pwQisu
http://amzn.to/2px1kOD


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## chillbot (Mar 22, 2018)

synthpunk said:


> Some very good books that I've been recommended by people who teach recording.
> 
> http://amzn.to/2pC2NmT
> http://amzn.to/2pwQisu
> http://amzn.to/2px1kOD


Pricey but I just ordered all 3 of these to donate. I think they will be great to have in the control booth for kids who get the bug.


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## PaulBrimstone (Mar 22, 2018)

chillbot said:


> Pricey but I just ordered all 3 of these to donate. I think they will be great to have in the control booth for kids who get the bug.


This one might offer the lighter side, too:


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## burp182 (Mar 22, 2018)

Might I suggest a trashcan rather than an iMac? Several reasons - longer service life (better ventilation), more expandable, higher performance/dollar, more monitor options and MUCH easier to secure. Plan for at least a 10 year installation without upgrades. It's a school, after all.
I agree with both Logic and Live. Garage Band comes with almost everything Apple and Logic provides a familiar interface to all those users. 
5.1 is a wonderful idea that no one cares about. Save the resources for other places.
Komplete (or at least Kontakt) is a great way to provide synthesis and sample playback as an almost universal format. Money well spent.


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## chillbot (Mar 22, 2018)

PaulBrimstone said:


> This one might offer the lighter side, too:


Done.

And don't think I'm not going to lightly peruse all these books before I donate them....


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## synthpunk (Mar 22, 2018)

And do not forget the extra corresponding adult coloring book 



PaulBrimstone said:


> This one might offer the lighter side, too:


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## synthpunk (Mar 22, 2018)

All three books also have corresponding mixing books as well if you think those will come in handy let me know next time we chat and I will take care of those.



chillbot said:


> Done.
> 
> And don't think I'm not going to lightly peruse all these books before I donate them....


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## PaulBrimstone (Mar 22, 2018)

synthpunk said:


> And do not forget the extra corresponding adult coloring book


And a box of MIDI crayons.


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## synthpunk (Mar 23, 2018)

Chillbot, one thing if you guys end up getting an iMac is to make sure your dealer or someone pulls the fusion/hybrid drive out and replaces it with a Samsung Pro SSD. Those drives can be quirky and not last extremely long.


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## ironbut (Mar 23, 2018)

After having gone through a Music Tech program in a local college, I'd suggest you go Pro Tools/Avid all the way.
More college programs teach with Pro Tools as the DAW because more jobs in both music and post will accept Pro Tools certifications. There are lots of music studios that use other DAW's too but most have Pro Tools as their basic DAW for tracking.
Avid also have programs for teaching Post and Game audio too.
I found that probably 25% of the students I encountered wanted to get into the gaming industry and were some of the most motivated students I met.
It may not seem like Pro Tools has any advantage anymore and that's true when it comes to music production. But being integrated into a system of hardware and software particularly when you're trying to sync video it's hard to beat.
You can contact Avid and they have specialists who will be happy to help you get the best deal and suggest what you might need to integrate an entire department.


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## ironbut (Mar 23, 2018)

After I made the post above I thought about it and,..
We used to have Open House's of the music tech dept. and I used to help out.
Local high school students and their instructors would come by and take tours and watch demos we'd do.
I can remember talking to instructors a couple of times and hear, "I wish I'd contacted you guys before I set up our studios".
So, if you have some local programs, go and see what they're using and coordinate with them.
To get you started, here's a link to the program/school I went to.
https://www.foothill.edu/musictechnology/


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## AllanH (Mar 23, 2018)

I realize I'm bit a late to the party, but here are my thoughts: you should talk to the district's IT team. Maybe your high school is wealthy, and can afford to use Apple products. I general, however, K-12 uses a mix of PCs and Chromebooks. To manage larger deployment on PCs, most use a product called SCCM. With a few thousand PCs to manage, SCCM (and it's companion tools) is the only way to stay reasonably sane.

Unless it's one of the few Mac district's, I'd suggest PCs with software can be installed with SCCM. Otherwise, you'll have friction with the folks who will be maintaining the tech after your donation is over. This means your donation will waste quickly.


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