# Making Music like Hiroyuki Sawano



## jason3.14 (Nov 11, 2020)

Hello all,

Hiroyuki Sawano has been my favorite composer for years, and recently I've been trying to cover his tracks with modest but limited success. When I've looked for tips/tutorials online, I've not been sure if what I've found has been applicable to Sawano's style - I don't think I'd consider it flat out trailer or classical orchestral music, and maybe hybrid would be adequate... but really it sounds like cinematic anime music (haha) which I feel is quite distinct from artists like Bergersen or Audiomachine.

Here are some example tracks:

Xenoblade Chronicles X - Theme X
Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress
Promare

I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on the following sample libraries _particularly_ _in achieving/approaching Sawano's style_ beyond what I currently own (basically Komplete 12 Ultimate, Jaeger, and Nucleus). For instance, I already know that Cinebrass is vastly popular, but really I wonder if this is the most applicable brass library to this style.

All-in-One
Jaeger (own)
Nucleus (own)
Metropolis Ark 1?

Strings
Cinematic Studio Strings?

Brass
Cinebrass?
Cinematic Studio Brass?

Percussion
Damage (own)
CinePerc?
Stylus RMX?
Other? I especially feel like I need a good drum set. I guess I could assume that any of the reputable drums (SSD5, SD3, EZDrummer 2, AD2) could work, but Sawano often uses a snare which has a particularly nice 'ringy' quality to it.

Rhythm
Shreddage 3 guitars/bass?
Piano?

Choir/Vocals
Vocalisa (own) (not Vocalise)
Vocals/Choirs within Jaeger/Nucleus
Other?

Synth
Serum (own)
Massive / Massive X (own)
Omnisphere?

Mixing/Mastering/FX
FabFilter Total Bundle (own)
Soundtoys 5 (own)
Other?

General advice is also greatly appreciated, although I do already assume that the most significant factor is personal experience / skill. Attached is an original track of mine, for reference.

Thanks!
Jason


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## HM_Music (Nov 11, 2020)

sd3 better but ssd5.5 now on sale for 59$
and guitar amplesound or orange3 better. i think shreddage worst guitar lib.


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## constaneum (Nov 11, 2020)

well....nothing beats live recording of coz. Even though i like CSS, i dont think you can achieve that strings sound. Soaring strings might be a better choice for such but you'll need to layer with other strings.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 11, 2020)

HM_Music said:


> sd3 better but ssd5.5 now on sale for 59$
> and guitar amplesound or orange3 better. i think shreddage worst guitar lib.



Thanks for your response! I didn't know SSD5.5 was on sale at the moment - will definitely try out the demo to start. Between SD3 and SSD5.5, which do you think is more mix ready?


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## jason3.14 (Nov 11, 2020)

constaneum said:


> well....nothing beats live recording of coz. Even though i like CSS, i dont think you can achieve that strings sound. Soaring strings might be a better choice for such but you'll need to layer with other strings.



Thanks constaneum, listening to soaring strings' demos and yea I'm liking the sound  I don't think I'm currently getting that kind of 'soaring' vibe from Jaeger/Nucleus, but I'll relisten to the latter two's demo tracks to further evaluate.


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## HM_Music (Nov 11, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Спасибо за ваш ответ! Я не знал, что SSD5.5 сейчас в продаже - обязательно попробую демо для начала. Что из SD3 и SSD5.5, по вашему мнению, больше подходит для микширования?


for sawano style - sd3) but price 300+$ vs 60$)


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## jason3.14 (Nov 11, 2020)

Ah yes - I should check out more of Alex Moukala's videos. Been trying to find time to watch Daniel James' old streams, and follow Dirk Ehlert as well. 

For reference, I updated my above post with an example of my current ability (or lack thereof), if it's of any benefit.

Thanks, all!


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## Angora (Nov 11, 2020)

I'm a huge fan of his work too! I spend a lot of time analyzing these pieces and trying to draw inspiration from these compositional techniques in my music ,I found the game and the OST of Xenoblade X absolutely dazzling ! 

Between Xenoblade X and The Attack of the Titans we can find many common points in his music, but it's really difficult for me to reproduce it in VST, 

The most difficult thing for me is to succeed in reproducing the strings in these pieces, I never manage to have fast strings that allow me to play so fast and with so much emotion, there is always a kind of latency in my VST that I can't remove, the legatos are simply too long, if you have any advice from bookshops with fast legatos I will be delighted... I have Komplete12, Cinestring, Tina Guo, Taylor Davis, EW Gold Cloud, Toundra...
Spitfire's Solo violin Total performance seems to have the speed capability I'm looking for?

But in any case it's a big job to reproduce songs in his style, between a big research work on the arpeggios of Synth, the rhythmics resolutely rock and metal of the drums and the guitars which are difficult to reproduce in VST (I'm a guitarist so for the guitar it takes away a weight from me to be able to play it myself, but I always had a hard time finding a convincing guitar VST but even with a real guitar it's not always easy to get a good recording sound )
And above all the incredible voice of Kobayashi Mika. .. 

It's always a perilous exercise to want to reproduce songs recorded with real instruments on VSTs, but I find that it makes you progress enormously, good luck in your research, if you have progressed in this style and you want to share your VST finds and techniques to match this spirit, I'll be happy to discuss it with you !


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## Jkist (Nov 11, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Thanks for your response! I didn't know SSD5.5 was on sale at the moment - will definitely try out the demo to start. Between SD3 and SSD5.5, which do you think is more mix ready?



Both have "mix ready" presets, but the SSD5 drums are all more processed out of the box. SD3 allows for way deeper diving, you can do all drum processing within the plugin if you wanted.

I prefer pretty much everything about SD3 over SSD5, but SSD5 is incredible value for the money, and can sound great.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 11, 2020)

Angora said:


> The most difficult thing for me is to succeed in reproducing the strings in these pieces, I never manage to have fast strings that allow me to play so fast and with so much emotion, there is always a kind of latency in my VST that I can't remove, the legatos are simply too long, if you have any advice from bookshops with fast legatos I will be delighted...



Great to hear from someone else who has similar interests! Jaeger/Nucleus' legato seems pretty fast actually, but yea I do seem to struggle with getting that level of emotion/expression as well.



Angora said:


> It's always a perilous exercise to want to reproduce songs recorded with real instruments on VSTs, but I find that it makes you progress enormously, good luck in your research, if you have progressed in this style and you want to share your VST finds and techniques to match this spirit, I'll be happy to discuss it with you !



Fortunately for us, Sawano probably (?) accomplishes most of his work with VSTs as well!  Or at least, I've come across a few sites which would suggest as much.... Yes, hoping this can be a suitable thread to share our experiences!

It seems another user made a solid Attack on Titan cover using primarily Metropolis Ark 1 several years ago. I tried to get in contact with him/her for more information, but unfortunately was unable to get a response.

This cover of Inferno / Promare Theme is pretty solid too - wonder if he'd be able to provide tips.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 11, 2020)

@Jkist - thanks for your input! That does seem in line with a lot of users' experiences. I think the mix-ready aspect of SSD5 would really appeal to me, if it saves a lot of time up front on making a passable mock-up - and like you said, the cost, with it being on sale for $59???


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## HM_Music (Nov 11, 2020)

SSD5 - Steven Slate Drums


SSD5 has every drum sound imaginable. The kits model the famous drum sounds of classic artists like Led Zeppelin, Metallica, and more!




stevenslatedrums.com


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## Johnny (Nov 11, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Hiroyuki Sawano has been my favorite composer for years, and recently I've been trying to cover his tracks with modest but limited success. When I've looked for tips/tutorials online, I've not been sure if what I've found has been applicable to Sawano's style - I don't think I'd consider it flat out trailer or classical orchestral music, and maybe hybrid would be adequate... but really it sounds like cinematic anime music (haha) which I feel is quite distinct from artists like Bergersen or Audiomachine.
> 
> ...


I hear a lot of 8Dio Hybrid Rhythms in Attack on Titan's score as well if you are interested, You'll also notice a lot of the Heavyocity's Ensemble Woods Collection in that soundtrack


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## Larbguy (Nov 11, 2020)

A lot of his work that I've heard has really contemporary, up-front sound and mixing / micing, etc. 

So I would argue against using the Ark series here. I own them all are love them, but they are definitely a wetter sound overall. Jaeger or something more like that is the way to go, if you're also trying to achieve the overall sonic vibe he usually does


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## constaneum (Nov 11, 2020)

i think for the strings, he may not be using symphony size setup. It might be a smaller studio or chamber size setup.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 11, 2020)

Johnny said:


> I hear a lot of 8Dio Hybrid Rhythms in Attack on Titan's score as well if you are interested, You'll also notice a lot of the Heavyocity's Ensemble Woods Collection in that soundtrack



Thanks Johnny, I'll look into that! Can you give an example of any particular patches that you felt you could identify within certain tracks? Just would be nice to know, given how potentially similar a lot of libraries could sound depending on how they are used.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 11, 2020)

Larbguy said:


> A lot of his work that I've heard has really contemporary, up-front sound and mixing / micing, etc.
> 
> So I would argue against using the Ark series here. I own them all are love them, but they are definitely a wetter sound overall. Jaeger or something more like that is the way to go, if you're also trying to achieve the overall sonic vibe he usually does



Hmm yea you may be right. I thought this AoT cover posted on another thread using Mark1 turned out pretty well though? Jaeger has been quite user friendly, although I guess it's often sounded kind of thin for me. Maybe need another library to layer with - perhaps Mark1 would be a good complement? Or it might just be the way I'm using it, including my choice of panning (considering it comes not pre-panned).


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## jason3.14 (Nov 11, 2020)

constaneum said:


> i think for the strings, he may not be using symphony size setup. It might be a smaller studio or chamber size setup.



Hmm, perhaps CSS... I do wish they would update their variable legato timing to make it more efficient to use though.


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## constaneum (Nov 11, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Hmm, perhaps CSS... I do wish they would update their variable legato timing to make it more efficient to use though.



CSS may be too romantic sounding for this kind of genre?


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## Johnny (Nov 12, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Thanks Johnny, I'll look into that! Can you give an example of any particular patches that you felt you could identify within certain tracks? Just would be nice to know, given how potentially similar a lot of libraries could sound depending on how they are used.


I sure can. I am a big fan of his work too. We should all recognize EWSO choir tenor shouts here,  Also the Heavyocity Woods:  Here you'll hear fragments of the Area51, Hybrid Rhythms 1, Main80bpm patch;  You should hear fragments of the Atlantic Patch, They are tricky to hear, but are often used as a background percussion bed layering, and then Damage over top or Epic Taiko Ensemble and libraries that are much more crisp and punchy.


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## Johnny (Nov 12, 2020)

Johnny said:


> I sure can. I am a big fan of his work too. We should all recognize EWSO choir tenor shouts here,  Also the Heavyocity Woods:  Here you'll hear fragments of the Area51, Hybrid Rhythms 1, Main80bpm patch;  You should hear fragments of the Atlantic Patch, They are tricky to hear, but are often used as a background percussion bed layering, and then Damage over top or Epic Taiko Ensemble and libraries that are much more crisp and punchy.



But throughout the entire OST, you'll catch the background layering of Hybrid Rhythms as his starting point for any mix, and he often builds the rest of the rhythms on top of the initial hybrid layer. Scrolling through patches in the library, you can hear several songs if not, all of season 1 using this library in some capacity.


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## Raphioli (Nov 12, 2020)

constaneum said:


> CSS may be too romantic sounding for this kind of genre?



I agree with this. 

CSS has the completely opposite sound.
CSS is lush and has a dark tone.
I've listened to the tracks posted in the OP's post and the strings sound a lot more intimate and also smaller in section size.
Also sounds much more brighter than CSS.
Strings I could come up with is LASS and may VSL Chamber Strings.

Recently, a library called LA Sessions was released which has some strings in it.
Only demos are available, but I felt that was the kind of sound which will fit more than CSS.
Although, I don't know the quality of the legatos and the library doesn't have Spiccatos.
There are also a bunch of "arcs" type of articulations while, afaik, SINE doesn't have a Time Machine feature yet.
So it might have its pros and cons but at least to me, that sound I think is the type of sound you might be looking for.
If you just want the strings, wait for the sections to be sold separately. It'll be much cheaper for you.
But I'll wait for a detailed walkthrough though, if I were you.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 12, 2020)

constaneum said:


> CSS may be too romantic sounding for this kind of genre?


I was worried about that as well haha. Well but, I do feel like there's emotion in his string lines, haha.  Maybe I'll look into LASS as sources indicate that he uses that for mockups (in addition to Majestica and CineStrings - but these latter two I feel would be old/unwieldy, and with scripting issues, respectively).


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## jason3.14 (Nov 12, 2020)

Johnny said:


> But throughout the entire OST, you'll catch the background layering of Hybrid Rhythms as his starting point for any mix, and he often builds the rest of the rhythms on top of the initial hybrid layer. Scrolling through patches in the library, you can hear several songs if not, all of season 1 using this library in some capacity.


Haha Johnny I gotta say... this is such exciting news to me!  Thanks a bunch for this great lead! Definitely gonna look into Hybrid Rhythms (I assume you are referring to "New" Hybrid Rhythms?).I will look into EWSO Choir Tenor Shouts too, but I guess I've been wary of EWSO due to the age of it's products, for better/worse.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 12, 2020)

Raphioli said:


> Strings I could come up with is LASS and may VSL Chamber Strings.
> 
> Recently, a library called LA Sessions was released which has some strings in it.
> Only demos are available, but I felt that was the kind of sound which will fit more than CSS.
> Although, I don't know the quality of the legatos and the library doesn't have Spiccatos.



Oh just saw your message - thanks yea I will definitely take a look into LASS and LA Sessions! Really appreciate your input. I do hear CSS has difficulty blending with other issues too.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 12, 2020)

Hey guys, this user created a mockup of part of Sawano's "7Tsuno:the1" 2 days after I started this thread.






My first ever mockup of a piece by someone else ... Hiroyuki Sawano


Hey everyone! This took me about 5 days, so I thought I'd share this mockup I did of the first part of "7Tsuno:the1" by Hiroyuki Sawano. I've never transcribed or mocked up a piece by anyone other than myself before, so it was an interesting experience, to say the least. Different experience...




vi-control.net





Hope this helps continue the conversation. 

Thanks all!
Jason


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## Raphioli (Nov 12, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Oh just saw your message - thanks yea I will definitely take a look into LASS and LA Sessions! Really appreciate your input. I do hear CSS has difficulty blending with other issues too.



Keep in mind that LASS3 seems to be in development.
Although, people have seem to be waiting for a very long time for it.
It might be released next month, or it might release few years from now xD
In other words, clueless of when its going be released.

Just wanted to mention this though, so that you don't get disappointed if LASS3 is released right after you bought LASS 2.5.


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## constaneum (Nov 12, 2020)

i think something about the Japanese orchestral setup which sounds different from the usual Hollywood sounds. 

I know these are live recordings but always curious with the setup size. Here's my favourite piece from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 by Kenji Hiramatsu. Notice the strings and brass arent even sounding like Symphony size. I always wanna opt for this kind of sound setup but sad to say nothing much in the market that offers such sound. Most releases are focusing on either trailer or standard orchestral size sounds.


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## rmak (Nov 12, 2020)

maybe 8dio century strings? 55% sale currently. They are a bit larger than a chamber.


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## constaneum (Nov 12, 2020)

Even if you listen to this piece from NieR Automata. The strings don't sound lush. Doesnt sound symphony size too. a bit thin but good enough to cut through the mix.


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## constaneum (Nov 12, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Oh just saw your message - thanks yea I will definitely take a look into LASS and LA Sessions! Really appreciate your input. I do hear CSS has difficulty blending with other issues too.



LA Sessions sound promising


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## jason3.14 (Nov 12, 2020)

Raphioli said:


> Keep in mind that LASS3 seems to be in development.
> Although, people have seem to be waiting for a very long time for it.
> It might be released next month, or it might release few years from now xD
> In other words, clueless of when its going be released.
> ...



LOL. Thanks for the heads up, will definitely put that into consideration!


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## jason3.14 (Nov 12, 2020)

constaneum said:


> i think something about the Japanese orchestral setup which sounds different from the usual Hollywood sounds.
> 
> I know these are live recordings but always curious with the setup size. Here's my favourite piece from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 by Kenji Hiramatsu. Notice the strings and brass arent even sounding like Symphony size. I always wanna opt for this kind of sound setup but sad to say nothing much in the market that offers such sound. Most releases are focusing on either trailer or standard orchestral size sounds.




Hmm... I see what you mean. Almost sounds like a big band haha. Maybe I'll do some digging into Japanese orchestral setups (if there's anything out there).


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## jason3.14 (Nov 12, 2020)

constaneum said:


> LA Sessions sound promising



Or maybe Spitfire Studio/Chamber Strings?


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## Johnny (Nov 13, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Haha Johnny I gotta say... this is such exciting news to me!  Thanks a bunch for this great lead! Definitely gonna look into Hybrid Rhythms (I assume you are referring to "New" Hybrid Rhythms?).I will look into EWSO Choir Tenor Shouts too, but I guess I've been wary of EWSO due to the age of it's products, for better/worse.


No guilt  Even to this day, I hear a large amount of commercial soundtracks using classic EWSO patches. I honestly couldn't live without those libraries (as old as they are), ruling out that a great sounding sample recording, will always be a great sounding sample. No worries, I can always bounce you some hybrid rhythm examples if you want? Like I mentioned, it is best to be used as a layering library with something with additional punch like Damage. I didn't know how to use hybrid rhythms in a mix before I heard the Titan OST. Great stuff in there for sure!


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## ansthenia (Nov 13, 2020)

Massive fan of Sawano here, I've studied him a lot. If you want to replicate his complicated orchestrations, study heterophony. His work is abound in it, and it's the reason his complicated textures are so clear and not too heavy. "On your Mark" from Gundam Unicorn is the particular piece I studied for this - absolutely full of heterophonic examples, very colourful and transparent orchestration. He typically has a melody + counter melody, and then another line that has multiple functions. This line bounces between doubling the melody and/or countermelody (either regular unison/octave doubling or heterophonic doubling) and briefly acting as a 2nd counter melody during little breaks in the other lines. He likes to use trumpets often for this multi-functional line.

As for sample libraries, I think others have given some pretty good suggestions.


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## bryla (Nov 13, 2020)

Having orchestrated for Sawano one of the first things I noticed is that he packs his bottom end with 16ths. The drum set bass drum might have one particular rhythm while the bass guitar has another. Then the cello/bass might have a third filling the rhythm of taikos.

Regarding his orchestration he likes to have 'all' elements present across strings, brass, choir depending on how many sections are playing.


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## MSutherlandComp (Nov 13, 2020)

bryla said:


> Having orchestrated for Sawano


Mind sharing more about this (if possible)? :emoji_astonished:


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## MSutherlandComp (Nov 13, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Hey guys, this user created a mockup of part of Sawano's "7Tsuno:the1" 2 days after I started this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks for sharing!


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## bryla (Nov 13, 2020)

MSutherlandComp said:


> Mind sharing more about this (if possible)? :emoji_astonished:


Sure. It's been a pandemic since so it's not fresh in my memory. I would have to browse through the scores again. If there's anything in particular you would be interested in maybe I have some insight.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 13, 2020)

Johnny said:


> No worries, I can always bounce you some hybrid rhythm examples if you want? Like I mentioned, it is best to be used as a layering library with something with additional punch like Damage. I didn't know how to use hybrid rhythms in a mix before I heard the Titan OST. Great stuff in there for sure!



That would be really cool if I could bother you for that! I'm really interested in New Hybrid Rhythms now, so that would be pretty helpful. Too bad I don't see a demo version to test it out, but some examples would be great. I should also check out the online videos.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 13, 2020)

ansthenia said:


> Massive fan of Sawano here, I've studied him a lot. If you want to replicate his complicated orchestrations, study heterophony. His work is abound in it, and it's the reason his complicated textures are so clear and not too heavy. "On your Mark" from Gundam Unicorn is the particular piece I studied for this - absolutely full of heterophonic examples, very colourful and transparent orchestration. He typically has a melody + counter melody, and then another line that has multiple functions. This line bounces between doubling the melody and/or countermelody (either regular unison/octave doubling or heterophonic doubling) and briefly acting as a 2nd counter melody during little breaks in the other lines. He likes to use trumpets often for this multi-functional line.
> 
> As for sample libraries, I think others have given some pretty good suggestions.


Thanks for the great tip! If I'm understanding correctly, I also feel that he often must bounce between octave unison strings and french horns with this? I think Xenoblade Chronicles X's Theme X could match what you are referring to.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 13, 2020)

MSutherlandComp said:


> Hey, thanks for sharing!



Thanks for your great mockup!


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## jason3.14 (Nov 13, 2020)

bryla said:


> Sure. It's been a pandemic since so it's not fresh in my memory. I would have to browse through the scores again. If there's anything in particular you would be interested in maybe I have some insight.



Wow... I'd be interested in anything.  Maybe something that has a rock feel behind it, with drumset/bass/guitars driving the groove, versus one that doesn't? The tracks in my first post I would be particularly interested in, but really I enjoy the spectrum of Sawano's work. Thanks in advance for your input!


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## MSutherlandComp (Nov 13, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Wow... I'd be interested in anything.  Maybe something that has a rock feel behind it, with drumset/bass/guitars driving the groove, versus one that doesn't? The tracks in my first post I would be particularly interested in, but really I enjoy the spectrum of Sawano's work. Thanks in advance for your input!


I'd be interested in this sort of stuff as well! I've also always been interested in the way he writes for strings, if you can give any insight into that, bryla!


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## Andrew Aversa (Nov 14, 2020)

constaneum said:


> i think something about the Japanese orchestral setup which sounds different from the usual Hollywood sounds.
> 
> I know these are live recordings but always curious with the setup size. Here's my favourite piece from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 by Kenji Hiramatsu. Notice the strings and brass arent even sounding like Symphony size. I always wanna opt for this kind of sound setup but sad to say nothing much in the market that offers such sound. Most releases are focusing on either trailer or standard orchestral size sounds.




Agreed 100%, that sound just doesn't exist in the VI world. Someone should really make a library with top Japanese musicians, in a top studio, with a top engineer, that have all worked on soundtracks like that one. Wouldn't it be crazy if someone were doing that?


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## Crowe (Nov 14, 2020)

Andrew Aversa said:


> Agreed 100%, that sound just doesn't exist in the VI world. Someone should really make a library with top Japanese musicians, in a top studio, with a top engineer, that have all worked on soundtracks like that one. Wouldn't it be crazy if someone were doing that?



... Are you implying something, good sir?


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## ummon (Nov 14, 2020)

constaneum said:


> Even if you listen to this piece from NieR Automata. The strings don't sound lush. Doesnt sound symphony size too. a bit thin but good enough to cut through the mix.



Nier was probably recorded in similar settings than Octopath Traveler. This is one of the studios Square-Enix has been using in recent years. Fairly dry recordings are often layered with sample libraries for the bigger sound. Studio size recordings without baked ambience is the way to mix in some non-orchestral instruments as well. 

Please, decrease your listening volume before watching


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## Andrew Aversa (Nov 14, 2020)

ummon said:


> Nier was probably recorded in similar settings than Octopath Traveler. This is one of the studios Square-Enix has been using in recent years. Fairly dry recordings are often layered with sample libraries for the bigger sound. Studio size recordings without baked ambience is the way to mix in some non-orchestral instruments as well.
> 
> Please, decrease your listening volume before watching




You know, I really love that soundtrack. I always wanted to have a virtual instrument which could nail that sound. Oh, did you know that's Koichiro Muroya Strings w/ Mitsunori Aizawa engineering?


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## ummon (Nov 14, 2020)

Andrew Aversa said:


> You know, I really love that soundtrack. I always wanted to have a virtual instrument which could nail that sound. Oh, did you know that's Koichiro Muroya Strings w/ Mitsunori Aizawa engineering?



I didn't know they were involved in Octopath project! At least Muroya has been working with Sawano before - maybe Aizawa as well.

This footage is from Octopath Traveler 2


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## jason3.14 (Nov 14, 2020)

Andrew Aversa said:


> Agreed 100%, that sound just doesn't exist in the VI world. Someone should really make a library with top Japanese musicians, in a top studio, with a top engineer, that have all worked on soundtracks like that one. Wouldn't it be crazy if someone were doing that?



Great to get your input Andrew - truly the biggest inspiration for me (aside from and for longer than Sawano) ever since OC Remix days!

And yes... like constaneum said, I _really_ hope this was a cryptic hint.


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## Andrew Aversa (Nov 14, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Great to get your input Andrew - truly the biggest inspiration for me (aside from and for longer than Sawano) ever since OC Remix days!
> 
> And yes... like constaneum said, I _really_ hope this was a cryptic hint.



Ah cheers!! I wish I had more time to make remixes for myself these days, but I'm still *working with Jill* all the time.

As for my comment, well... people in this thread will be very happy next year.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 15, 2020)

Andrew Aversa said:


> Ah cheers!! I wish I had more time to make remixes for myself these days, but I'm still *working with Jill* all the time.
> 
> As for my comment, well... people in this thread will be very happy next year.



I was still hoping you'd find time to make a Shreddage 3 Hydra - Holy Orders walkthrough... but way more excited about this instead!! 🎉🎉🎉

By the way, if I recall correctly you used Steven Slate Drums on your track Shred the Night. Would you consider this your go-to drum set? I'm considering seeing if it would work well in this Sawano / Japanese orchestral music style.


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## Jay Panikkar (Nov 15, 2020)

I think Cinesamples can get quite close to the Japanese OST sound. I might post some mockups, but no ETA atm.

Currently trying to transcribe some tracks from Attack on Titan, Berserk (Shiro Sagisu) and also one from Spirited Away (Joe Hisaishi). Will probably take a long time...


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## jason3.14 (Nov 15, 2020)

Jay Panikkar said:


> I think Cinesamples can get quite close to the Japanese OST sound. I might post some mockups, but no ETA atm.
> 
> Currently trying to transcribe some tracks from Attack on Titan, Berserk (Shiro Sagisu) and also one from Spirited Away (Joe Hisaishi). Will probably take a long time...



Looking forward to hearing them!  I have a few Sawano covers but probably should touch them up before posting....


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## chrisav (Nov 16, 2020)

Andrew Aversa said:


> As for my comment, well... people in this thread will be very happy next year.



Ooooooh my, I'm already setting aside funds for this!


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## bryla (Nov 16, 2020)

MSutherlandComp said:


> I'd be interested in this sort of stuff as well! I've also always been interested in the way he writes for strings, if you can give any insight into that, bryla!


It depends on the style. Is there a specific piece you have in mind?
IIRC in pieces that has a heavy rhythm section, much of the middle string voices are drowned out.


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## Tom Ferguson (Nov 16, 2020)

Andrew Aversa said:


> Ah cheers!! I wish I had more time to make remixes for myself these days, but I'm still *working with Jill* all the time.
> 
> As for my comment, well... people in this thread will be very happy next year.



This is really really awesome! Please continue down this road with more orchestral libraries like this as there is definitely a gap in the market and IMO a need and desire.


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## Johnny (Nov 16, 2020)

Andrew Aversa said:


> Agreed 100%, that sound just doesn't exist in the VI world. Someone should really make a library with top Japanese musicians, in a top studio, with a top engineer, that have all worked on soundtracks like that one. Wouldn't it be crazy if someone were doing that?


The Joe Hisaishi Symphonic Orchestra! JH Strings, JH Brass, JH Woodwinds, JH Percussion, JH Taikos... JH Rare Instruments (from Japan) Honestly it would sell like hot cakes! I'll buy it


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## Angora (Nov 16, 2020)

Johnny said:


> The Joe Hisaishi Symphonic Orchestra! JH Strings, JH Brass, JH Woodwinds, JH Percussion, JH Taikos... JH Rare Instruments (from Japan) Honestly it would sell like hot cakes! I'll buy it



You gave me a heart attack, I saw that with one eye when I arrived on the page I had already taken out the credit card and sold my house to buy it ... Now my hopes are shattered !


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## Johnny (Nov 16, 2020)

Angora said:


> You gave me a heart attack, I saw that with one eye when I arrived on the page I had already taken out the credit card and sold my house to buy it ... Now my hopes are shattered !


I nearly died writing it... LOL. I can even picture the sound? And imagine the expansions too! JH Marching Band, JH Marching Drum core!!! JH 200 person choir, recorded at Budokan Hall!!  Hahaha


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## Angora (Nov 16, 2020)

And you keep pushing the knife into the wound...


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## MSutherlandComp (Nov 17, 2020)

bryla said:


> It depends on the style. Is there a specific piece you have in mind?
> IIRC in pieces that has a heavy rhythm section, much of the middle string voices are drowned out.


Such as this track, for example:


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## galactic orange (Dec 4, 2020)

Andrew Aversa said:


> Agreed 100%, that sound just doesn't exist in the VI world. Someone should really make a library with top Japanese musicians, in a top studio, with a top engineer, that have all worked on soundtracks like that one. Wouldn't it be crazy if someone were doing that?


This has got me extremely excited, more so than for anything else next year. For the sake of having funds available to buy when it’s out, is there a chance you could tell us early or late 2021? This really is a large missing piece of the sample world which is sorely needed.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 4, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Hiroyuki Sawano has been my favorite composer for years, and recently I've been trying to cover his tracks with modest but limited success. When I've looked for tips/tutorials online, I've not been sure if what I've found has been applicable to Sawano's style - I don't think I'd consider it flat out trailer or classical orchestral music, and maybe hybrid would be adequate... but really it sounds like cinematic anime music (haha) which I feel is quite distinct from artists like Bergersen or Audiomachine.
> 
> ...


I am 99% sure you can pull off a convincing rendition of that Strings line with Jaeger or Areia. Would take a combination of the legato patch for the transitions and stacking the spiccato or marcato patch for the harder attacks since the legato one has a soft attack.

I’ll take a crack at it later tonight if I get some free time.


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## Andrew Aversa (Dec 4, 2020)

galactic orange said:


> This has got me extremely excited, more so than for anything else next year. For the sake of having funds available to buy when it’s out, is there a chance you could tell us early or late 2021? This really is a large missing piece of the sample world which is sorely needed.



Recording is happening in April. Then it will be all hands on deck editing, scripting, UI, etc., likely shooting for Q3 2021 release. We'll make a *lot* *more* *noise* about it by summer. I just couldn't help myself here...


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## galactic orange (Dec 4, 2020)

Andrew Aversa said:


> Recording is happening in April. Then it will be all hands on deck editing, scripting, UI, etc., likely shooting for Q3 2021 release. We'll make a *lot* *more* *noise* about it by summer. I just couldn't help myself here...


Yes! Thank you!


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## jason3.14 (Dec 4, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> I am 99% sure you can pull off a convincing rendition of that Strings line with Jaeger or Areia. Would take a combination of the legato patch for the transitions and stacking the spiccato or marcato patch for the harder attacks since the legato one has a soft attack.
> 
> I’ll take a crack at it later tonight if I get some free time.



Good luck! Would be interested in what you manage to make. I've been trying to cover the Promare Theme recently with primarily Jaeger/Nucleus with modest progress so far, but needs more work before posting for feedback.

I also picked up Ventus Ethnic Winds - Tin Whistle for free during Impact Soundworks' Black Friday sale, which I've been learning how to use on this track. Been happy with it so far.


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## jason3.14 (Dec 5, 2020)

By the way... if any of you have issues MIDI CC being offset from track grid/metronome when using orchestral libraries with negative Sample Start times (e.g. Audio Imperia Jaeger/Nucleus set to -250 ms), it seems that this user has helped make this a lot more functional... for users within Reaper anyway, haha. 

The issue: basically when I use Track Delay (e.g. Bakuage Minus Delay) to offset a Sample Start time of -250 ms, this is great for aligning MIDI notes and their associated audio to the track grid/metronome - however, it comes at the cost of MIDI CC (e.g. Modulation wheel) being offset by 250 ms, making editing the latter very difficult.

The multiscript found in the linked post solves this within Reaper, by being able to delay MIDI cc specifically. I do wonder if you users on other DAWs have managed to deal with this issue through other methods?


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## Trash Panda (Dec 5, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Good luck! Would be interested in what you manage to make. I've been trying to cover the Promare Theme recently with primarily Jaeger/Nucleus with modest progress so far, but needs more work before posting for feedback.
> 
> I also picked up Ventus Ethnic Winds - Tin Whistle for free during Impact Soundworks' Black Friday sale, which I've been learning how to use on this track. Been happy with it so far.


Sorry, I was talking about Theme X, which is a gorgeous song btw. Promare could be done with Audio Imperia strings for sure. Might require Areia for some more nuanced control over articulations. Theme X should have a quick and dirty mock up ready tonight of that passage from 3:55 onwards.


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## jason3.14 (Dec 5, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> Sorry, I was talking about Theme X, which is a gorgeous song btw. Promare could be done with Audio Imperia strings for sure. Might require Areia for some more nuanced control over articulations. Theme X should have a quick and dirty mock up ready tonight of that passage from 3:55 onwards.


Haha we think alike - that segment of theme X I was attempting to cover as well - but I think the overall sound I have not been satisfied with, so had put it on hold at the moment.. definitely looking forward to your attempt!


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## Trash Panda (Dec 5, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Haha we think alike - that segment of theme X I was attempting to cover as well - but I think the overall sound I have not been satisfied with, so had put it on hold at the moment.. definitely looking forward to your attempt!


So far I’ve had good luck reproducing the strings with Jaeger using the modern mix and the legato patch. Didn’t even need to break out other articulations, just ride the mod wheel.

Used the Trailer Guitar dirty for the lead guitar and AmpleSound Les Paul for the clean. Bass guitar is Ample Sound Metal Ray 5 and the acoustic is the free AmpleSound acoustic.

I’m thinking GGD Modern and Massive for the drum kit and the rest of the percussion will come from Jaeger or Damage 2.

French horns could easily be done with the Jaeger 6 horns or 12 horns.

Not hearing any synth with that couldn’t be done with Massive X or Reaktor, but I probably won’t spend a ton of time on those as I’m not big on sound design.


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## jason3.14 (Dec 5, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> So far I’ve had good luck reproducing the strings with Jaeger using the modern mix and the legato patch. Didn’t even need to break out other articulations, just ride the mod wheel.
> 
> Used the Trailer Guitar dirty for the lead guitar and AmpleSound Les Paul for the clean. Bass guitar is Ample Sound Metal Ray 5 and the acoustic is the free AmpleSound acoustic.
> 
> ...



Looking forward to it! Gonna be working on the other side on Promare in the meantime, haha. Oh wait... first have to take care of some work, then will get back to it haha. :O


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## Trash Panda (Dec 5, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Looking forward to it! Gonna be working on the other side on Promare in the meantime, haha. Oh wait... first have to take care of some work, then will get back to it haha. :O


Here's the first pass at the climax and early stages of the rest of the song as a separate file.


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## jason3.14 (Dec 6, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> Here's the first pass at the climax and early stages of the rest of the song as a separate file.



Haha ohh man, I really enjoyed this! Especially the climax. Would you be willing to share your process/project or MIDI file? Or are you going to continue working on it?

By the way, here's an Attack on Titan cover of mine - I think it came out too compressed, but hopefully it's a start. Appreciate comments/advice.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 6, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Haha ohh man, I really enjoyed this! Especially the climax. Would you be willing to share your process/project or MIDI file? Or are you going to continue working on it?
> 
> By the way, here's an Attack on Titan cover of mine - I think it came out too compressed, but hopefully it's a start. Appreciate comments/advice.


Your cover has the timbre down, the levels just need some balance. The horns are too loud compared to the original, so use CC11 or DAW fader to bring them down some. This will give more room for the rest of the piece to breathe. The trumpets sound synthy like they’re being pushed at max dynamics without variation. Other than that, it sounds good to my amateur ears. 

For Theme X, I’d like to work on it a bit more before I share the project file. I need to add in the palm muted rhythm guitar on the final part and do a lot of CC1 and CC11 work throughout the song. Maybe I’ll dig into Massive X and try to find a preset close to that wah wah synth layered in with the staccato parts, the pitch bending solo synth and clean up the scattered drum tracks.

Process wise, since I wasn’t originally planning on doing a cover of the whole song, I just found a pretty decent score from MuseScore and downloaded the MIDI as a starting point and cleaned it up some.

Then I auditioned several instruments to find a close enough fit to the original sound to start with. For the horns and strings, I started with performance patches and then go back through with articulation specific patches once I’m happy with the initial setup and volume balancing.

From there, I capture a recording of the original, usually from YouTube via Audacity and line it up as a reference. Then for sections where I need to isolate the percussion and bass to figure them out (the percussion in the climax was way off before I redid it), I run the reference file through Izotope RX8 and generate stems of the percussion and bass separately. There’s artifacts galore doing this, but it separates things well enough.

Once I feel that all the notes are correct, I start going through the instruments adjusting articulations and CC/velocity data track by track. I’ve only got the violins in the climax into a state that I feel is close enough to 90% there so far. The horns need a lot of work as they’re at a static 95% dynamics right now.

This turned out to be a really fun project and gave me an excuse to finally dust off the Cerberus drum library, so I’ll be doing the full cover treatment and maybe check out the game it came from.

Instruments used:
Guitars: Ample Sound Les Paul
Metal Rhythm Guitar: AmpleSound Metal Eclipse (not yet in the composition)
Bass Guitar: AmpleSound Metal Ray 5
Acoustic Guitar: Free AmpleSound Martin Acoustic (will swap this out with a nylon stringed acoustic)
Percussion: Audio Imperia Cerberus Drum Kit (same as the Nucleus one) and Cerberus Ensemble Drums Epic Mix with stacking set to 3 and 40% randomization. Will likely layer in the standard Cerberus Ensembles and maybe Damage 2. You could probably reproduce with the Nucleus and Jaeger drums, you’ll just have to add humanization on timing and I was feeling lazy
Synths: Audio Imperia Legacy Event Horizon Staccato Synths with a few patches layered. Also threw in the Kontakt Factory Library Klavinet but will likely remove that
Strings: Jaeger Strings
Brass: Jaeger 6 Horns x 2, but might swap in Majestic Horn (it’s like $3 on OT’s site) since these sound like two solo horns playing separate parts


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## jason3.14 (Dec 6, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> Instruments used:
> Guitars: Ample Sound Les Paul
> Metal Rhythm Guitar: AmpleSound Metal Eclipse (not yet in the composition)
> Bass Guitar: AmpleSound Metal Ray 5
> ...



Thanks for listening - haha yea you're definitely right, it could really use some balancing/dynamics fixing!

Glad to hear your process so far and see your breakdown! I'm especially pleased to see Jaeger performing as they did in your mockup so far! I'm also happy to see Cerberus drums getting some action haha! Looking forward to seeing how your evolves for sure. My Promare cover is progressing but might be some time before I post.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 12, 2020)

Here is a non-final draft. I'll need to improve my synth design skills to get any closer to the electronic portions and find an electronic drum machine I like out of the several that came bundled with all the stuff I have.

I'll upload the project file later this weekend.


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## jason3.14 (Dec 13, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> Here is a non-final draft. I'll need to improve my synth design skills to get any closer to the electronic portions and find an electronic drum machine I like out of the several that came bundled with all the stuff I have.
> 
> I'll upload the project file later this weekend.



Great work so far!I feel that the strings are kind of tinny? And I assume you would still be working on balancing. But overall I'm really impressed to see how far you've gotten this week, considering you covered the entirety of the track. Look forward to seeing where it goes from here! I'm also very interested in seeing how you tackled things in detail from your project file. Btw, what DAW are you using? Haha.

I've been busy this week with work and just finishing building my first PC! Hope to get back to it soon.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 14, 2020)

I'm using Reaper at the moment. Here's the project file with the mixing and mastering plugins stripped out. I've set all levels to hover around -18 dB. You'll probably have to inject your own VSTs for the guitars, basses and synths unless you have the same AmpleSound plugins and Iris 2.






ThemeX - Google Drive







drive.google.com


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## jason3.14 (Dec 14, 2020)

This is awesome! Will try to take a look at it this week or next. Still been backing up my computer and redownloading VSTs on my new comp lol. Fortunately I'm on Reaper too. Also, I got Iris 2 free through plugin boutique not long ago, so although I haven't used it, this'll give me a good reason to check it out. Thanks, and I'll get back to you once I've taken a look!


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## JoelS (Dec 15, 2020)

constaneum said:


> i think something about the Japanese orchestral setup which sounds different from the usual Hollywood sounds.


So, I love Sawano's Gundam Unicorn music, but my holy grail has always been Kow Otani's score for Gundam Wing. My 'still pretty holy but slightly less so' grail is Toshihiko Sahashi's Gundam SEED Destiny score. Ok, fine, my holiest of all grails is Yoko Kanno's Turn-A Gundam score but that's a straight up concert hall symphonic sound for the orchestral parts even if it has the compositional flair for adventurous melodic romanticism that I equate to the Japanese sound.

Anyway, the Wing score particularly has that sound of lively, agile small sections. The brass leans towards big band a lot of the time. Plus, rock drums, wild electric guitar, and sax noodling. I've always wanted to compose music like that but never quite had the right sounds to get there.

When Strezov put out the Afflatus 1.3 updates, it was like handing me a toolbox for this kind of music. The marcatos, chamber spiccatos, and 'mysterious' legatos are all small sections. Layering the chamber spiccatos and the marcatos produces a very agile and expressive string sound, especially for the violins and violas. Crucially (to me) the marcato patches also have a very nice expressive vibrato. It's not consistent on every note but it's there on most of them. Oh, and the 'scene d'amour' articulations are also great in this context, and again are small sections.

I set up my Gundam Wing-ish orchestra using Afflatus for strings. Brass is OT Glory Days, 8dio Fire Trumpet and Fire Sax, Realitone Screaming Trumpet. ISW Shreddage guitar. MODO bass. Superior 3 drums. I'm pretty happy with the sound: 



I'm really interested to hear what Andrew and ISW come up with for their string library. If it has beautiful expressive marcatos, or sforzandos or whatever you want to call a nice selection of short articulations with different attacks and pretty vibrato that enables lively romantic expression... I'm in. For now, I'm really happy with Afflatus.


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## jason3.14 (Dec 15, 2020)

Thanks for your track, nice job! Yea, Afflatus seems quite nice from what I'd heard from demos and streams I've seen so far. I'd also been looking into Yoko Shimomura's work (Xenoblade Chronicles), when I found out that she'd also composed the music for Super Mario RPG, one of my favorite games of all time. Small music world!


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## jason3.14 (Dec 15, 2020)

Hmm, not really the same, but regarding video game music and ISW Shreddage - I transcribed RichaadEB's youtube guitar cover of Deltarune - Field of Hopes and Dreams and inputted all notes and MIDI (pitch bend, modulation, etc) manually with mouse and computer keyboard as I did not have a midi controller at this time, haha. I used Shreddage 3 Serpent for all guitar parts, and Shreddage 3 Abyss for bass.

Happy to provide project files if anyone happens to be interested! Just glad to see people posting their tracks so maybe we can learn from each other (not that this one is particularly cinematic, but hopefully captures the rock genre).


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## ToadsworthLP (Dec 16, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Hmm, not really the same, but regarding video game music and ISW Shreddage - I transcribed RichaadEB's youtube guitar cover of Deltarune - Field of Hopes and Dreams and inputted all notes and MIDI (pitch bend, modulation, etc) manually with mouse and computer keyboard as I did not have a midi controller at this time, haha. I used Shreddage 3 Serpent for all guitar parts, and Shreddage 3 Abyss for bass.
> 
> Happy to provide project files if anyone happens to be interested! Just glad to see people posting their tracks so maybe we can learn from each other (not that this one is particularly cinematic, but hopefully captures the rock genre).



Sounds pretty good!
Regarding project files, I'm ALWAYS interested!

Oh, by the way, most of the music from Xenoblade Chronicles was actually composed by ACE+ and Manami Kiyota. Yoko Shimomura _is_ responsible for a couple iconic tracks though, such as the title theme and Colony 9. And did you know that Yasunori Mitsuda composed the ending theme, Beyond the Sky? The same Yasunori Mitsuda who wrote the Chrono Trigger OST? A small world indeed.


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## constaneum (Dec 16, 2020)

ToadsworthLP said:


> Sounds pretty good!
> Regarding project files, I'm ALWAYS interested!
> 
> Oh, by the way, most of the music from Xenoblade Chronicles was actually composed by ACE+ and Manami Kiyota. Yoko Shimomura _is_ responsible for a couple iconic tracks though, such as the title theme and Colony 9. And did you know that Yasunori Mitsuda composed the ending theme, Beyond the Sky? The same Yasunori Mitsuda who wrote the Chrono Trigger OST? A small world indeed.



Yasunori Mitsuda returned and composed a few tracks for Xenoblade Chronicles 2


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## jason3.14 (Dec 18, 2020)

ToadsworthLP said:


> Sounds pretty good!
> Regarding project files, I'm ALWAYS interested!
> 
> Oh, by the way, most of the music from Xenoblade Chronicles was actually composed by ACE+ and Manami Kiyota. Yoko Shimomura _is_ responsible for a couple iconic tracks though, such as the title theme and Colony 9. And did you know that Yasunori Mitsuda composed the ending theme, Beyond the Sky? The same Yasunori Mitsuda who wrote the Chrono Trigger OST? A small world indeed.



Thanks for your interest! Here are the wav, Reaper project file, and multitrack midi file for my Deltarune cover. Hope you find them interesting/helpful in some way!

- Jason


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## jason3.14 (Dec 22, 2020)

Here's the current state of my Promare Theme cover! Guess it took me awhile as I'm not particularly efficient with my workflow, tweaking everything all the time lol. Inspired by @MSutherlandComp's shire whistle work on his "7Tsuno:the1" cover as well. 

Appreciate comments, and hope you like it! Can provide project file/MIDI/video if anyone is interested. I might continue extending the track, but probably will take a break from this project for now as I'm itching to check out @Trash Panda's Xenoblade Theme X project file, haha.


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## constaneum (Dec 22, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Here's the current state of my Promare Theme cover! Guess it took me awhile as I'm not particularly efficient with my workflow, tweaking everything all the time lol. Inspired by @constaneum's shire whistle work on his "7Tsuno:the1" cover as well.
> 
> Appreciate comments, and hope you like it! Can provide project file/MIDI/video if anyone is interested. I might continue extending the track, but probably will take a break from this project for now as I'm itching to check out @Trash Panda's Xenoblade Theme X project file, haha.



ha??? not my work.


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## jason3.14 (Dec 22, 2020)

constaneum said:


> ha??? not my work.



Sorry my bad... wasn't thinking straight at 430AM haha. I've corrected the post.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 23, 2020)

Been wondering if anyone who owns Hyperion Strings has done any work with Sawano cues? Seems like it is closer to the Japanese string section size and has that hyped modern sound that works well for hybrid cues.


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## Crowe (Dec 24, 2020)

Man, I really want to love the Xenoblade Chronicles X OST but there's just so much overuse of vocals on that OST.

Any recommendations on albums that don't?


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## jason3.14 (Dec 25, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> Man, I really want to love the Xenoblade Chronicles X OST but there's just so much overuse of vocals on that OST.
> 
> Any recommendations on albums that don't?


Fair point haha, there are some vocal tracks there that don't sit well with me either. <_<' I guess Attack on Titan OST might be the 'obvious' choice? I'm also a fan of the Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress and Thunderbolt Fantasy soundtracks, but I'm sure there are other good options. 🤔


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## jason3.14 (Dec 25, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> Been wondering if anyone who owns Hyperion Strings has done any work with Sawano cues? Seems like it is closer to the Japanese string section size and has that hyped modern sound that works well for hybrid cues.


Sorry I've never used - but I think I'll be satisfied waiting to see what ISW comes out with next year haha


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## jezjez (Dec 25, 2020)

So I've got a Japanese magazine where he did an interview and talks about making the Attack on titan soundtrack. I can try translate the interview if ppl are interested but here's the shot of some of the plugins he uses
This is the issue it's from


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## jason3.14 (Dec 25, 2020)

jezjez said:


> So I've got a Japanese magazine where he did an interview and talks about making the Attack on titan soundtrack. I can try translate the interview if ppl are interested but here's the shot of some of the plugins he uses


Pretty cool! If you are able to that'd be great, but the pictures probably capture the point. I've also come across these couple sites reporting what Sawano (and other composers) apparently use.


docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JJBlHHDc65fhZmKUGLrDTLCm6rfUU83-kbuD8Y0zU0o/edit?usp=sharing

https://www.soundprest.com/post/composer-bgm

Not that I can confirm their accuracy, but still interesting I think!


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## Johnny (Dec 25, 2020)

Awesome!!!! I am very much into Japanese composer's and one of the greatest surprises of my AAA career was when I found out that Masashi Hamauzu used EWSO Brass on Final Fantasy XIII. (Also one of my favorite scores of all time) That being said, now here we are in 2020 and when I listen to the first demo track of FFXIII, "Blinded by Light", you can totally tell it's not your sweeping Hollywood brass that came out one year after the game's release : P (Driving the point home that a great sample will always be a great sample)


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## constaneum (Dec 25, 2020)

Johnny said:


> Awesome!!!! I am very much into Japanese composer's and one of the greatest surprises of my AAA career was when I found out that Masashi Hamauzu used EWSO Brass on Final Fantasy XIII. (Also one of my favorite scores of all time) That being said, now here we are in 2020 and when I listen to the first demo track of FFXIII, "Blinded by Light", you can totally tell it's not your sweeping Hollywood brass that came out one year after the game's release : P (Driving the point home that a great sample will always be a great sample)



yes. EWQL SO Brass. He still uses them. Even in FF7 Remake soundtrack if i'm not mistaken. Just strings tends to be either purely live recordings or just a layering of live and samples.


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## MSutherlandComp (Dec 25, 2020)

Johnny said:


> Awesome!!!! I am very much into Japanese composer's and one of the greatest surprises of my AAA career was when I found out that Masashi Hamauzu used EWSO Brass on Final Fantasy XIII. (Also one of my favorite scores of all time) That being said, now here we are in 2020 and when I listen to the first demo track of FFXIII, "Blinded by Light", you can totally tell it's not your sweeping Hollywood brass that came out one year after the game's release : P (Driving the point home that a great sample will always be a great sample)


I was super surprised to learn that as well. I wasn‘t very involved in music when that game was first released (I was 11) - I remember believing that that track was totally live, and absolutely loved it (still love it). Great example!


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## jason3.14 (Dec 25, 2020)

That's totally one of my favorite tracks too! I used to always love playing the piano version. I'd never heard the demo track before though, nice. Sorry that my earlier link post came across embedded - I edited it to include the original google docs link if you wanted to view it more easily.


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## jezjez (Dec 26, 2020)

Oh awesome i didn't know about that site with plugins used by composers, pretty good resource!
So i won't go through it line by line, there is a fair bit on his writing process for Attack on titan, some stuff on recording and hardware, and a section where the magazine tries to make a 'Sawano-style' track, but the main points about samples are these.

For strings he uses two libraries layered together, used to be LASS + Hollywood strings, more recently LASS and 8Dio Majestica. He feels LASS has more of a dry sound and Majestica provides more of the ambience. 
He spends time making his mockups good quality as even though he records live instruments later on, he'll usually blend them with samples to get a bigger sound. For example for rockish tracks he'll layer in samples from Damage over the kick and snare and then add some more processing on top of that. He likes that Damage has to a lot of noisy/dirty sounds and that the tails on the snares sound big and 'hollywood-ish'. For hihats he usually layers at least 2 sounds using libraries such as Stylus RMX. For guitar he just uses the stock Logic samples through Guitar Rig since they'll be replaced later but he also says that recent guitar libraries can work well blended with real guitars too.
He credits Hans Zimmer as the inspiration for him blending orchestra and sample/synth sounds in his tracks. He read an interview with Hans where he was talking about why when you see an orchestra live there's so much power but when you listen to the same music at home you don't get that same impact. In order to recreate the same impact as a live performance on a recording, he uses samples and synths to augment the sound.
For piano since it'll usually be replaced by a live piano he just uses a Kontakt piano. When he does want to use a realistic sounding plugin piano he'll use the 8Dio Steinway one blended with a Komplete grand piano. When he wants something more synthetic sounding he often blends a realistic sounding plugin with a reverberant grand piano from Omnisphere.


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## jason3.14 (Dec 26, 2020)

Hmm, even with the links I posted, your description is still quite helpful regarding his methods, so thanks a lot!



jezjez said:


> For strings he uses two libraries layered together, used to be LASS + Hollywood strings, more recently LASS and 8Dio Majestica. He feels LASS has more of a dry sound and Majestica provides more of the ambience.


I thought he used LASS and Majestica, but good to confirm that he layers those two together. I haven't found myself wanting to go for those libraries yet though, given the expense, since LASS looks kind of complicated to me, and since I wonder if Metropolis Ark 1 could just be a better version of Majestica. Also if he is often layering with live strings later, it always makes me wonder how far I can get with these libraries alone even if he uses them.


Along those lines, I hear he uses a lot of CineBrass, though I'd be very interested in hearing how well people with Cinebrass manage to mockup his brass sections (such as *this *section in Theme X, or *this *one), as I'd again be reluctant to buy it without knowing for sure how I'd fare with it. I do struggle somewhat with Jaeger though, as it's high modulation/dynamics get pretty bleaty to me, compared to what I hear in his tracks - I compensate by decreasing the modulation a fair amount and compensating by boosting gain/expression. Not sure if that has worked out the best.



jezjez said:


> He spends time making his mockups good quality as even though he records live instruments later on, he'll usually blend them with samples to get a bigger sound. For example for rockish tracks he'll layer in samples from Damage over the kick and snare and then add some more processing on top of that. He likes that Damage has to a lot of noisy/dirty sounds and that the tails on the snares sound big and 'hollywood-ish'. For hihats he usually layers at least 2 sounds using libraries such as Stylus RMX. For guitar he just uses the stock Logic samples through Guitar Rig since they'll be replaced later but he also says that recent guitar libraries can work well blended with real guitars too.


This is really great info! This is also in line with what I have come across as well: https://equipboard.com/pros/hiroyuki-sawano/heavyocity-damage?src=link

This link demonstrates that he uses Damage's Perc A Bad Krunch Kit for distorted kicks and snares on a Xenoblade Chronicles X track. You can find other info on some of his uses for Omnisphere and Stylus RMX etc. on Equipboard as well.

Happy to hear about his layering process for Damage, since I've also started layering my snares with Damage. In particular, I have felt that in many, many of his rock based tracks, his snare(s) have this really ringy sound that I absolutely love. The closest I've found to it is Perc A Bad Krunch Kit's snare on note C3 (or C4? I have some MIDI notation discrepancy on Reaper atm). Wouldn't be surprised if this is the correct snare that I am hearing in many of his tracks. I will probably start layering more of the drums with Damage too, based on your info.



jezjez said:


> For piano since it'll usually be replaced by a live piano he just uses a Kontakt piano. When he does want to use a realistic sounding plugin piano he'll use the 8Dio Steinway one blended with a Komplete grand piano. When he wants something more synthetic sounding he often blends a realistic sounding plugin with a reverberant grand piano from Omnisphere.


Great to know that I probably don't need to stray from the pianos in Komplete. Although again I guess if it's replaced by live piano then all bets are off. And then also I find myself liking Garritan CFX anyway haha.

Thanks again for your translation! I just browsed through the Kindle preview of that magazine you posted too and it looks like there's some pretty good stuff in there... I don't know if you'd have the time for a line by line translation after all? That could be a lot to ask though, so perhaps I will just muck my way through it slowly if needed (I can understand the katakana at least hahaa).

I have also heard from @MSutherlandComp that Sawano's Twitter has great info regarding his process, including videos. I still have to check that out.


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## Tom Ferguson (Dec 26, 2020)

Johnny said:


> Awesome!!!! I am very much into Japanese composer's and one of the greatest surprises of my AAA career was when I found out that Masashi Hamauzu used EWSO Brass on Final Fantasy XIII. (Also one of my favorite scores of all time) That being said, now here we are in 2020 and when I listen to the first demo track of FFXIII, "Blinded by Light", you can totally tell it's not your sweeping Hollywood brass that came out one year after the game's release : P (Driving the point home that a great sample will always be a great sample)


I also love Masashi Hamauzu and his FFXIII score! I definitely think it's highly under-rated. The orchestration alone is next level! 

It was just unfortunate it didn't really have the catchy-ness factor that people seemed to really want and the game itself wasn't exactly amazing.


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## jezjez (Dec 27, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Thanks again for your translation! I just browsed through the Kindle preview of that magazine you posted too and it looks like there's some pretty good stuff in there... I don't know if you'd have the time for a line by line translation after all? That could be a lot to ask though, so perhaps I will just muck my way through it slowly if needed (I can understand the katakana at least hahaa).
> 
> I have also heard from @MSutherlandComp that Sawano's Twitter has great info regarding his process, including videos. I still have to check that out.


No worries, hm I may see if I can, there's quite few different sections apart from the interview with him, there's one with his (one of his?) mixers and then a bit of song analysis/mock ups by the magazine itself. 
Interesting, recently he's mostly been posting pics of himself at the studio or news about releases, did find one short video on YT with him and Hyadain (another Japanese composer mainly making JPOP) talking about DAWs


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## jason3.14 (Dec 27, 2020)

jezjez said:


> No worries, hm I may see if I can, there's quite few different sections apart from the interview with him, there's one with his (one of his?) mixers and then a bit of song analysis/mock ups by the magazine itself.
> Interesting, recently he's mostly been posting pics of himself at the studio or news about releases, did find one short video on YT with him and Hyadain (another Japanese composer mainly making JPOP) talking about DAWs



Oh man that's awesome!!! Thanks for the video link! So basically, the sustainable solution is for me to to learn japanese... which is tough but something I been attempting for years. It would definitely pay off in the long run!

Thanks for the motivation!


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## Johnny (Dec 27, 2020)

Tom Ferguson said:


> I also love Masashi Hamauzu and his FFXIII score! I definitely think it's highly under-rated. The orchestration alone is next level!
> 
> It was just unfortunate it didn't really have the catchy-ness factor that people seemed to really want and the game itself wasn't exactly amazing.


Yes! Extremely underrated! I think it goes down as my favorite OST of all time, that and the counterpart underrated OST, FFXIII-2 (Which I'm still waiting for someone to make a legit piano collections of ;p) But yes! That's my most burnt out mp3 from over listening and analyzing. Funny story, I was so into his music at one point in my career I even download the "Sony a' Clock" score he did for the camera lens promo website a while back. (Highly recommend!) And do check out Masashi's rendition of "Sailing to the World" Piano Collection he did on commission for Yasunori Mitsuda- this is desert Island listening for sure! Anyhow, I was chasing down any and all Masashi scores I could find as to understudy his textures and harmonies etc... And I came across the seed of inception! For FFXIII's Blinded by Light- years before he wrote FXIII!! (Driving home the point that all great composer's only really have a handful of great ideas that they've written in their life-time, you just make a career off of your few great ideas by borrowing and stealing from them = great composers are merely thieves that never get caught  Until you invent the internet and find out that Starwars is really just Holst's planet suite...) But check this out, and enjoy the same chuckle I enjoyed hearing 10 years ago @0:30 seconds:


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## ansthenia (Dec 27, 2020)

Not a massive fan of Hamauzu personally. Imo his contributions to the FF7: Remake soundtrack were among the worst music in the game.


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## Johnny (Dec 27, 2020)

MSutherlandComp said:


> I was super surprised to learn that as well. I wasn‘t very involved in music when that game was first released (I was 11) - I remember believing that that track was totally live, and absolutely loved it (still love it). Great example!





MSutherlandComp said:


> I was super surprised to learn that as well. I wasn‘t very involved in music when that game was first released (I was 11) - I remember believing that that track was totally live, and absolutely loved it (still love it). Great example!


Yes me too! I think I was like 24 years old, and using EWSO Orchestra Platinum which I paid $999.99 for on sale!!! And just drooling over the fact that I had the exact same patches at my disposal!! Total disbelief as well! Those were great years of life  I still keep the box on my studio shelf to inspire me! That whole ost, March of the Dreadnaughts, Saber's Edge, so many classic knock it out of the park compositions. I once read a director's interview, and the Audio Director was speaking about Masashi's work in this score and he said, "I just let him work freely. The only Audio Direction I gave him was to make it Modern and New Age, and let Masashi do what he does best!" And there you go! I've myself worked on too many indie game scores where the art directors where too involved in the process... Turning my (what I thought were, breathtaking original scores) and directing them/filtering them down to basically drum n' bass riffs with major triads... Killing my soul... And then I'll listen to an original score like FFXIII, Octopath Traveler, Nier Automata etc, where the composers were literally left to their own elements! And those scores honestly stick with you forever, as some of video game's most genius works of art! (Also award winning game scores!) Composers should always just be allowed to do what they do! And that's where the FFXIII magic is born : )


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## Johnny (Dec 27, 2020)

ansthenia said:


> Not a massive fan of Hamauzu personally. Imo his contributions to the FF7: Remake soundtrack were among the worst music in the game.


Yeah he's not for everyone for sure. Only because I liked his work, I was excited to hear the new textures he brought to FFVII remake and I quite enjoyed the notable difference it brought to the world. But I completely understand... He's definitely not for everyone. I find that if you are a _Ryuichi Sakamoto_ fan? You are a Masashi and Joe Hisaishi fan. They were all sort of born from the Sakamoto era of popular music- where Sakamoto basically set the precedence of bringing back extensions and block harmony (From impressionist composers like Debussy) into popular music and movie scores.


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## MSutherlandComp (Dec 27, 2020)

Johnny said:


> Yeah he's not for everyone for sure. Only because I liked his work, I was excited to hear the new textures he brought to FFVII remake and I quite enjoyed the notable difference it brought to the world. But I completely understand... He's definitely not for everyone. I find that if you are a _Ryuichi Sakamoto_ fan? You are a Masashi and Joe Hisaishi fan. They were all sort of born from the Sakamoto era of popular music- where Sakamoto basically set the precedence of bringing back extensions and block harmony (From impressionist composers like Debussy) into popular music and movie scores.


I was about to say - that track from Unlimited Saga absolutely exudes a certain Sakamoto-ness a la Undercooled etc.

Hamauzu is one of the best orchestrators in the business IMO. His Final Fantasy X (my favorite soundtrack of all time) Piano Concerto with the LSO is phenomenal. One of, if not the, best living piano arrangers out there as well.


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## Johnny (Dec 27, 2020)

MSutherlandComp said:


> I was about to say - that track from Unlimited Saga absolutely exudes a certain Sakamoto-ness a la Undercooled etc.
> 
> Hamauzu is one of the best orchestrators in the business IMO. His Final Fantasy X (my favorite soundtrack of all time) Piano Concerto with the LSO is phenomenal. One of, if not the, best living piano arrangers out there as well.


Absolutely! He's rarely credited for FFX I find among lovers of the score. I also recall that out of almost every song that was commercially popular, it was Masashi's name behind the composition and not Uematsu. And to put the icing on the cake, Masashi was merely an under-study at Square throughout the production of FFX- which ultimately lead to Uematsu offing him his first major gig as sole composer on Dirge of Cerberus! Another underrated score!


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## paul (Dec 27, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Hiroyuki Sawano has been my favorite composer for years, and recently I've been trying to cover his tracks with modest but limited success. When I've looked for tips/tutorials online, I've not been sure if what I've found has been applicable to Sawano's style - I don't think I'd consider it flat out trailer or classical orchestral music, and maybe hybrid would be adequate... but really it sounds like cinematic anime music (haha) which I feel is quite distinct from artists like Bergersen or Audiomachine.
> 
> ...


With the greatest respect - why do you want to sound like him - where's your OWN voice here?


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## jason3.14 (Dec 27, 2020)

paul said:


> With the greatest respect - why do you want to sound like him - where's your OWN voice here?


No worries  Thanks for your question, and I'm sorry in advance for the very, very long post, haha. I'm just excited about learning to make music, and the better I get, the more exciting it is! Anyway...

For years I primarily just tried to make my own music, however it was from acknowledging the dissatisfaction with my music that I began trying to learn what makes the music/composers I like sound so much better than I have managed to, and so far I've found that to be amazingly educational! Often times I've found covering tracks to be frustrating in their own right because I just can't figure out how to get that sound, but definitely the practice has improved my skills in many areas. One of the most significant reasons to me is that covers allow me to remove the variable of figuring out if the issue with my music is the original composition/arrangement, or some other aspect - i.e. when I try to make a cover, I know that it SHOULD sound good (because I know I like the music), so when it doesn't, the learning I gain from troubleshooting this is more focused, whereas I've often been quite lost trying to figure out how to make my music better.

Not to say that I'll never make original music ever again, or that I'm not losing out on important skills by not making original music either. Although surprisingly, I've found covering tracks to require my creativity in many ways!  It's taught me that it is possible at least to some extent to make the music I like with the tools that I currently have (or if not, to hopefully learn what tools I may need) so that I'll be better equipped to handle the challenges that come with making original music as well.

By the way, perhaps I'd mention that I've been learning this way only for about a year or so, but I think the benefits have been exponential at least at this stage of my learning. I'd say my most significant personal (technical or mental) breakthrough was when I watched Daniel James' video on creating the track The Frank Hunter usually almost solely Jaeger. His video gave me the confidence that, at least to make this one track that I really liked, I could use Jaeger to make it. Subsequently I bought Jaeger over Black Friday last year, and watched/took notes on his 100 min video in detail, and attempted to recreate his track (attached). In that process, I learned such a wealth of information, even just like, the basics of what the bread and butter Damage Armageddon patch was, haha (hopefully that gives you a sense of where I was starting from). And, even with what appears to be extreme hand-holding, one could say that I 'only' managed to recreate his track to the extent that I did - those differences probably reflect my lack of understanding of what he explained, or reflect what I had to be creative with because of what he didn't explain. Or like, even when I did not have U-He Diva, which he used to create his pulsing bassline, it motivated me to watch videos on how to create a similar effect in Serum, which I owned.

Royal (attached) and Revival (in the initial post of this thread) are recent original tracks of mine, which still leave much to be desired, but I'm happy that it demonstrates the progress I've made so far! I feel similarly about my most recent cover, Promare Theme, which although is indeed a cover, required me to make it from scratch without external assistance besides just listening to the reference track itself.

A similar mental breakthrough came for me for guitar VSTs recently, when I found Zircon's Shred the Night walkthrough which allowed me to feel confident that Shreddage could at least make this one great song. I purchased Shreddage 3 Rogue and Abyss and, utilizing his video walkthrough with MIDI data for the project he publicly posted, I made the attached cover which I'm pretty happy with. That experience allowed me to be more confident in making the attached Deltarune cover from scratch by ear, and more assured that I can apply those skills to make original rock/metal/game style music too (and also that Nucleus/Jaeger with Massive X synth strings can back a rock track pretty well!🤘).

Sorry again for the super long post, and thanks for allowing me to take your super short question too seriously, indulging in my recount of what's been an exciting journey so far! Sorry for the track reposts as well, but I hoped it would be easier to follow my progression that way. I thought to spare you my music prior to this last year, as it's way worse haha....

Currently I'm working on a Xenoblade Chronicle X Theme X cover, using @Trash Panda 's graciously provided project file as a template. I may be finding myself wanting to supplement with an Ample Sound Guitar Martin III purchase. 🤔


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## Trash Panda (Dec 27, 2020)

How's that Theme X deep dive going? I've found that for sections needing a bit more punch from the horns without going into can of bees territory, the 12 horns patch works pretty well. You can do a surprising amount by just stacking the sustain and stacatissimo patch and using a combination of velocity and CC1 to shape the sound.


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## jason3.14 (Dec 27, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> How's that Theme X deep dive going? I've found that for sections needing a bit more punch from the horns without going into can of bees territory, the 12 horns patch works pretty well. You can do a surprising amount by just stacking the sustain and stacatissimo patch and using a combination of velocity and CC1 to shape the sound.


Hey! Overall it's been fun, although my progress is generally quite slow-paced. Not quite satisfied with the current state yet, but will be seeing where I get to eventually, haha.

I have been trying some modifications in the meantime, for example:
1) Experimenting with Steven Slate Drums + Damage. Modestly successful, but still not completely satisfied so far.
2) Adding more of the background string staccato elements
3) Trying to layer some of the background trombone lines with sustain/staccato/staccatissimo patches, but as mentioned earlier, I'm still figuring navigating around the 'bleaty' sound of Jaeger brass compared to what I hear in Sawano's music - will see if reducing dynamics and boosting levels will work.
4) Jeager string legato lines still giving me trouble - I still feel like they are quite bumpy, even if they were supposedly fixed or not (?). And especially when the lines get a little too fast, like with 16th notes, legato does not seem to stay in time - wonder if it's just a speed beyond which legato will not perform well, or if I'm missing something. Maybe you'd have some input? Perhaps I will post a legato demo later.

And I've just been mainly working almost solely on the climax section haha - lot to do! Thanks again for the great starting point! Learning/practicing a lot regardless of the final product.


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## jeremyr (Dec 28, 2020)

Interesting discussion, learning a lot.

For the experts in Japanese game music what would be the trumpet library that could best achieve the sound I'm hearing in various battle bgms? For example:



It sounds more jazz, maybe even mariachi, than symphonic. CSB solo trumpet can come close, but the overall sound is too fat.


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## IdealSequenceG (Dec 28, 2020)

jeremyr said:


> Interesting discussion, learning a lot.
> 
> For the experts in Japanese game music what would be the trumpet library that could best achieve the sound I'm hearing in various battle bgms? For example:
> 
> ...




Solo, but maybe 8dio Fire Trumpet.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 28, 2020)

jason3.14 said:


> Hey! Overall it's been fun, although my progress is generally quite slow-paced. Not quite satisfied with the current state yet, but will be seeing where I get to eventually, haha.
> 
> I have been trying some modifications in the meantime, for example:
> 1) Experimenting with Steven Slate Drums + Damage. Modestly successful, but still not completely satisfied so far.
> ...


Not sure what you mean about background trombone lines. There's just two French horns parts as far as brass goes.

If you're finding trouble in containing the cuivre of the horns, there's two things you can do. Turn down EVERYTHING else when you need the horns to shine through without rattling your teeth out. The second is you can use the Jaeger a12 horn patch like mentioned above. You can stack the sustain and staccatissimo patches setting both to MIDI channel 1. This gives you control of the attack via velocity and everything afterwards via CC1.

After giving my ears a break, I came through and did just that and you can tell it makes a huge difference in the horn character.

Jaeger string legatos will be a bit of a challenge until/if AI releases an update to address the bumps or you can adjust the parameters in the wrench menu to smooth it out a bit per another user here on VI shared somewhere.

Here's an updated MP3 and project file to show what I mean with the horns.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CPxGcCnmZhp0gXaw6Biy60cOLQMXXg8Q/view?usp=sharing (Reaper Project File)


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## jason3.14 (Dec 29, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> If you're finding trouble in containing the cuivre of the horns, there's two things you can do. Turn down EVERYTHING else when you need the horns to shine through without rattling your teeth out. The second is you can use the Jaeger a12 horn patch like mentioned above. You can stack the sustain and staccatissimo patches setting both to MIDI channel 1. This gives you control of the attack via velocity and everything afterwards via CC1.



Thanks for the suggestions! The former is probably similar to what I've done so far with coming down on the dynamics and increasing the gain (although your way may be better overall). I'm all for the latter as well, as my default setup for strings/brass is often legato + spiccato/staccatissimo, controlling legato with mod wheel and spiccato/staccatissimo with velocity - although I'm still using the a6 horns at the moment. This project has been good for me to see the use of sustain/portato/staccato more in melody lines, not just legato/spiccato/staccatissimo.



Trash Panda said:


> Not sure what you mean about background trombone lines. There's just two French horns parts as far as brass goes.



Hmm I feel like I'm hearing something like this (?) - brass section and full climax attached. Maybe the brass is starting not to feel like the weakest link in this cover for me. 




Trash Panda said:


> Jaeger string legatos will be a bit of a challenge until/if AI releases an update to address the bumps or you can adjust the parameters in the wrench menu to smooth it out a bit per another user here on VI shared somewhere.



Ah good to know that I'm not the only one who still has trouble with it, haha.... By the way, whereas I went down on brass dynamics as above, so far I've gone quite up on the strings' average dynamics level compared to your version. I hope it helped make it sound more hyped for the climax. 🤔



Trash Panda said:


> Here's an updated MP3 and project file to show what I mean with the horns.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CPxGcCnmZhp0gXaw6Biy60cOLQMXXg8Q/view?usp=sharing (Reaper Project File)



Thanks for your update! I especially like how the Ample Sound Les Paul turned out at the beginning of your track, that parted sounds really great! 

Really appreciate everyone's input! I will also post my project file at some point too - can do it now if there's anything you want to check out at the moment, otherwise, I can post it once I'm satisfied with the whole track!


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## Trash Panda (Jan 1, 2021)

Check out this post on tweaking the legato patch envelope settings as it applies across all AI violins. It doesn’t make the legato CSS smooth, but it’sa HUGE difference that drastically lowers the amount of CC1/CC11 editing needed.

I went through and redid the dynamics after implementing it and the strings really sing now in the higher dynamic layers. 

Post in thread 'Audio Imperia Areia legato question'
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/audio-imperia-areia-legato-question.102628/post-4710693


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## jason3.14 (Jan 2, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Check out this post on tweaking the legato patch envelope settings as it applies across all AI violins. It doesn’t make the legato CSS smooth, but it’sa HUGE difference that drastically lowers the amount of CC1/CC11 editing needed.
> 
> I went through and redid the dynamics after implementing it and the strings really sing now in the higher dynamic layers.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip! This sounds like it could be gamechanging - at least, short of getting an update haha. I see that you feel that Nucleus post-Areia also suffers from these issues? Could this mean that using pre-update Nucleus for legato could be a workaround...? 🤔 

Not sure if this is necessarily the same thing but, actually what I was having the most trouble with was legato patches getting out of time the most at -250 ms sample start, in phrases particularly with varying note lengths too quickly (e.g. switching between 1/8th and 1/16th notes at 120 bpm). I'm finding it interesting just how different 0 m, -125 ms, and -250 ms sample starts can sound based on the tempo and particular phrases - the attached file demonstrates 2 phrases each at 0 ms, -125 ms, and -250 ms in that order (Modulation Wheel 100%, no reverb, the rest default).

E.g. the -250 ms sample start really breaks down in the 2nd phrase, with 1/8th and 1/16th notes, and I actually like the tone of the -125 ms sample start the most overall for that particular phrase, although the 0 ms probably has the best timing).


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## Trash Panda (Jan 4, 2021)

You could always hook up a CC Lane to the sample start for the legato patch, ratchet it up for faster lines, slow it down for the slower ones, etc. I’d also question where you’re trying to use legato in Theme X where it’s not fast enough.

For the very resonant snare, you can take any acoustic snare with a good pop and some ring, then apply a transient shaper to increase the sustain, a compressor with a fast attack and slow release so it clamps down hard on the transient, but holds on through the ring. Or both.

If I were trying to do exact sound matching, I’d probably use Addictive Drums 2 with the Gretsch snare from the metal drum kit or the smaller Sonor snare, which I think is the Studio Pop kit.


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## jason3.14 (Jan 5, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> You could always hook up a CC Lane to the sample start for the legato patch, ratchet it up for faster lines, slow it down for the slower ones, etc.


Yea true, I've thought about trying that, but wasn't sure if it would be hard to manage changing it mid-song or not - but probably would work huh.



Trash Panda said:


> I’d also question where you’re trying to use legato in Theme X where it’s not fast enough.


Very fair point, which I've thought about as well. I attached an example file comparing the following Jaeger violin articulations in the following order, all at Sample Start 0 ms.
1) Legato (with under the hood ADSR modifications from the thread you linked)
2) Legato (default, no modifications).
3) Sustain
4) Portato

Modulation wheel is set at 100% for 1-3. Modified legato (1) sounds not bad but kinda echoes, which I figure is due to the longer release. Legato without modification (2) sounds pretty good to me, wonder what others think. Sustain (3) is not bad too, but not as good as (2), but probably performs well in chords like we discussed before. Portato (4) doesn't sound that great compared to the others imo, even with velocity edits I made.

Of course, I could use all articulations within a single line as needed, but just to show that to my ears the default legato may still be my best bet in many cases for certain 16th note or syncopated melodies.

Given that the extra echoes from the modified legato, I might turn the release back down if I find it necessary, or just opt for the default legato and do mod wheel edits on that. A nice benefit of using 0 ms sample start is I don't have to worry about offsets between the note timing and MIDI cc timing, which I otherwise have been having to use a script for if I was using -250 ms sample start.



Trash Panda said:


> For the very resonant snare, you can take any acoustic snare with a good pop and some ring, then apply a transient shaper to increase the sustain, a compressor with a fast attack and slow release so it clamps down hard on the transient, but holds on through the ring. Or both.
> 
> If I were trying to do exact sound matching, I’d probably use Addictive Drums 2 with the Gretsch snare from the metal drum kit or the smaller Sonor snare, which I think is the Studio Pop kit.



Awesome! I think the Studio pop kit really seems to fit the bill when I listened to the demo. I'm trying NI Transient Master on snares with increased sustain, and it seems to be a great idea. Thanks for the tips!


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## Aviand (Jan 6, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> Currently I'm working on a Xenoblade Chronicle X Theme X cover, using @Trash Panda 's graciously provided project file as a template. I may be finding myself wanting to supplement with an Ample Sound Guitar Martin III purchase. 🤔


I made an account because of this thread haha, that Promare Theme is awesome, how much time you spent on it?


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## jason3.14 (Jan 6, 2021)

Aviand said:


> I made an account because of this thread haha, that Promare Theme is awesome, how much time you spent on it?


Really glad to hear someone liked it! Haha, I guess it took me approximately 15-20 hours? Not very efficient, but each time I work on something, there are components that I can reuse for future projects, or workflows that I realize can go better next time.


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## jason3.14 (Jan 18, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> How's that Theme X deep dive going? I've found that for sections needing a bit more punch from the horns without going into can of bees territory, the 12 horns patch works pretty well. You can do a surprising amount by just stacking the sustain and stacatissimo patch and using a combination of velocity and CC1 to shape the sound.


Here's my latest update! It's continuing to get better, although still room for improvement. The hi-hat and ride especially bothers me, as do the non-rhythm guitars.


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## jason3.14 (Feb 10, 2021)

Apparently Red Room Audio Saga is on sale for $49.









Elkatwin Retro Synth Sample Library by Xtant Audio - Audio Plugin Deals


The Elkatwin 61 is an Italian analogue synthesizer, considered a great string machine amongst enthusiasts and now available as an easy to use Kontakt 5 instrument.




audioplugin.deals





Seems like a great deal, but wonder what people think of it's use in this context.


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## Trash Panda (Feb 24, 2021)

Been awhile since checking in on this thread. Currently seeing how Novo and Forzo handle this song. Still liking Jaeger results more. Where are your hybrid drums and hats coming from? There’s certainly a weird little springy noise accompanying the hats that sounds like a synth with the pitch tied to the envelope filter.


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## jason3.14 (Feb 25, 2021)

Good to hear from you - just to make sure we're talking about the same thing:
The hi-hat I particularly dislike comes in at 0:31, and the ride at 1:11. I guess these are more organic sounding.
Then there's some other more electronic sounding hi-hat/ride sounds at the beginning of the track that I really heavily processed to try to sound like in the original track, but maybe with only with modest success. The original samples were from Black Octopus Leviathan I, overall really nice sounds from there I think.


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## luxypuxy (Mar 16, 2021)

I'm also really interested on this topic, found this the other day on Youtube, he did a really impressive job getting his style. Probably you should try contacting him.


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## jason3.14 (Mar 17, 2021)

luxypuxy said:


> I'm also really interested on this topic, found this the other day on Youtube, he did a really impressive job getting his style. Probably you should try contacting him.



Thanks for the tip! I'll leave a comment and see if he responds.


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## jason3.14 (Mar 28, 2021)

Hi all,

I've been working on this cover of Counterattack Mankind from Attack on Titan, including the attached two sections so far. Appreciate your comments/suggestions!


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## jason3.14 (Mar 28, 2021)

Just started working on this for epic farewell to the Attack on Titan season, haha.


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## jason3.14 (Apr 18, 2021)

Here's an updated cover of the Attack on Titan OST. Rock orchestral arrangements just seem especially challenging to mix/master. Appreciate your thoughts!


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## Trash Panda (Apr 18, 2021)

Bass guitar is a bit too loud at the beginning, but sounds solid besides that. Do you mind sharing your Rittai Kidou project or MIDI? I’ve struggled transcribing this guy.


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## Dex (Apr 18, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> Here's an updated cover of the Attack on Titan OST. Rock orchestral arrangements just seem especially challenging to mix/master. Appreciate your thoughts!


I'm not familiar with the source so I can't compare, but overall I think what you posted sounds great.

I agree that (maybe) the bass is too loud in the beginning, but it's a satisfying amount of bass in the rest of the song. 

The tone of the rhythm guitars is not entirely to my liking, so maybe it's worth trying a different amp on them. However, they're pretty low in the mix and they get the job done, and I wouldn't complain about listening to a whole album with that tone so this is a pretty minor nitpick. I think I'd just prefer something a little cleaner and better defined.

Great job!


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## jason3.14 (Apr 18, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Bass guitar is a bit too loud at the beginning, but sounds solid besides that.


Thanks for the feedback! Can agree with that. 



Trash Panda said:


> Do you mind sharing your Rittai Kidou project or MIDI? I’ve struggled transcribing this guy.


Definitely! I assume reaper project file works for you, since I recall you posting RPPs too? Let me know if you prefer something else. Guess it's too big to attach, so here's a google drive link.


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## jason3.14 (Apr 18, 2021)

Dex said:


> I'm not familiar with the source so I can't compare, but overall I think what you posted sounds great.
> 
> I agree that (maybe) the bass is too loud in the beginning, but it's a satisfying amount of bass in the rest of the song.


Yea, agree with TrashPanda and you, haha. 


Dex said:


> The tone of the rhythm guitars is not entirely to my liking, so maybe it's worth trying a different amp on them. However, they're pretty low in the mix and they get the job done, and I wouldn't complain about listening to a whole album with that tone so this is a pretty minor nitpick. I think I'd just prefer something a little cleaner and better defined.


Yea, you have a point -I've actually been using the same guitar tone for over a year now... and not surprising that it wouldn't work for every situation haha. Guess I've been avoiding taking the time to tweak it, but should do that at some point.

Thanks for the feedback!


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## jason3.14 (Apr 22, 2021)

Andrew Aversa said:


> Agreed 100%, that sound just doesn't exist in the VI world. Someone should really make a library with top Japanese musicians, in a top studio, with a top engineer, that have all worked on soundtracks like that one. Wouldn't it be crazy if someone were doing that?


Hi Andrew, don't suppose you'd be able to give us an update on how this is coming along?


----------



## Getsumen (Apr 22, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> Hi Andrew, don't suppose you'd be able to give us an update on how this is coming along?


Today was a good day to ask. https://vi-control.net/community/th...ings-coming-2021-by-impact-soundworks.108670/


----------



## jason3.14 (Apr 22, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Today was a good day to ask. https://vi-control.net/community/th...ings-coming-2021-by-impact-soundworks.108670/


LOL the chances  thanks! haha


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## jason3.14 (May 9, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Bass guitar is a bit too loud at the beginning, but sounds solid besides that. Do you mind sharing your Rittai Kidou project or MIDI? I’ve struggled transcribing this guy.


Hey, wonder if you've made any headway on this? Feel like I would do that project differently now, but guess that means I'm learning, lol.


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## jason3.14 (May 9, 2021)

Covering Alex Moukala's cover of FF16 trailer / FF14 music. Appreciate your thoughts!


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## Trash Panda (May 9, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> Hey, wonder if you've made any headway on this? Feel like I would do that project differently now, but guess that means I'm learning, lol.


I actually need to spend some time with it. I’ve been preoccupied practicing Star Wars mock-ups and have been taking on the psychotic epic that is Dancing Mad.


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## jason3.14 (May 9, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I actually need to spend some time with it. I’ve been preoccupied practicing Star Wars mock-ups and have been taking on the psychotic epic that is Dancing Mad.


dancing mad, nice choice!


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## jason3.14 (May 26, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Instruments used:
> Guitars: Ample Sound Les Paul
> Metal Rhythm Guitar: AmpleSound Metal Eclipse (not yet in the composition)
> Bass Guitar: AmpleSound Metal Ray 5
> ...


Hey Trash Panda, I know this is from awhile ago, but was wondering what specific processing you did on your Les Paul guitar, e.g. near the beginning of the track? I thought it came fairly close to the original.


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## Trash Panda (May 26, 2021)

I think I just used one of the Guns N’ Roses presets in the library. If you’re going for authenticity, it’s definitely a single coil guitar. Les Pauls are dual coil/humbucker pickups that have less twang than a single coil.

Likely a Stratocaster or Telecaster using the bridge pickup and a lightly crunchy amp would do it. I’d probably just coil tap my own Les Paul and play the part on guitar if I was less lazy.


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## jason3.14 (May 26, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I think I just used one of the Guns N’ Roses presets in the library. If you’re going for authenticity, it’s definitely a single coil guitar. Les Pauls are dual coil/humbucker pickups that have less twang than a single coil.
> 
> Likely a Stratocaster or Telecaster using the bridge pickup and a lightly crunchy amp would do it. I’d probably just coil tap my own Les Paul and play the part on guitar if I was less lazy.


Ah thanks for the tip, especially on the coil to twang relationship!


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## M99 (Jun 30, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Hiroyuki Sawano has been my favorite composer for years, and recently I've been trying to cover his tracks with modest but limited success. When I've looked for tips/tutorials online, I've not been sure if what I've found has been applicable to Sawano's style - I don't think I'd consider it flat out trailer or classical orchestral music, and maybe hybrid would be adequate... but really it sounds like cinematic anime music (haha) which I feel is quite distinct from artists like Bergersen or Audiomachine.
> 
> ...


I don't know if this was already mentioned, but he mainly used 8DIO's Requiem Pro for the choir in Season 1 of AoT (beside EW Symphonic Choirs), and Lacrimosa in Season 2. As for the percussion, he also likes to use Epic Taiko Ensemble (in the first part of XL-TT, he simply used the taiko ensemble master close patch for those epic taiko hits).

I'll attach some files with the choir and the taikos.


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## luxypuxy (Jun 30, 2021)

M99 said:


> I don't know if this was already mentioned, but he mainly used 8DIO's Requiem Pro for the choir in Season 1 of AoT (beside EW Symphonic Choirs), and Lacrimosa in Season 2. As for the percussion, he also likes to use Epic Taiko Ensemble (in the first part of XL-TT, he simply used the taiko ensemble master close patch for those epic taiko hits).
> 
> I'll attach some files with the choir and the taikos.


Can you send me a screenshot of the instrument's settings pls?


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## jason3.14 (Jul 1, 2021)

M99 said:


> I don't know if this was already mentioned, but he mainly used 8DIO's Requiem Pro for the choir in Season 1 of AoT (beside EW Symphonic Choirs), and Lacrimosa in Season 2. As for the percussion, he also likes to use Epic Taiko Ensemble (in the first part of XL-TT, he simply used the taiko ensemble master close patch for those epic taiko hits).
> 
> I'll attach some files with the choir and the taikos.


Yea thanks, others have mentioned Epic Taiko Ensemble and EW Symphonic Choirs. I was also under the impression from other sources that he used Requiem Pro and Lacrimosa. But I do appreciate the demo audio you've provided - it's remind me to look into Epic Taiko Ensemble especially.


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## jason3.14 (Sep 12, 2021)

Someone else's Octopath mockup:






Octopath Traveler -Yasunori Nishiki - Mockup Cover


Hey all, so I've got some spare time due to lock down here in Sydney I've spent a lot of time playing Switch - and decided to do a Mock up of the main theme for Octopath Traveler so ... Enjoy and Stay safe !!! Cheers




vi-control.net





Not Hiroyuki Sawano, but since engineer Mitsunori Aizawa and Koichiro Muroya Strings has worked with both Sawano and Nishiki (if I understand correctly), I thought there could be some overlap in the sound and in those interested.


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## danzelmusic (Oct 26, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> Haha ohh man, I really enjoyed this! Especially the climax. Would you be willing to share your process/project or MIDI file? Or are you going to continue working on it?
> 
> By the way, here's an Attack on Titan cover of mine - I think it came out too compressed, but hopefully it's a start. Appreciate comments/advice.


this is lovely... im just starting up and you guys are inspirational.


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## danzelmusic (Oct 26, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Here is a non-final draft. I'll need to improve my synth design skills to get any closer to the electronic portions and find an electronic drum machine I like out of the several that came bundled with all the stuff I have.
> 
> I'll upload the project file later this weekend.


is the project for this out?


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## danzelmusic (Oct 26, 2021)

wha


jason3.14 said:


> No worries  Thanks for your question, and I'm sorry in advance for the very, very long post, haha. I'm just excited about learning to make music, and the better I get, the more exciting it is! Anyway...
> 
> For years I primarily just tried to make my own music, however it was from acknowledging the dissatisfaction with my music that I began trying to learn what makes the music/composers I like sound so much better than I have managed to, and so far I've found that to be amazingly educational! Often times I've found covering tracks to be frustrating in their own right because I just can't figure out how to get that sound, but definitely the practice has improved my skills in many areas. One of the most significant reasons to me is that covers allow me to remove the variable of figuring out if the issue with my music is the original composition/arrangement, or some other aspect - i.e. when I try to make a cover, I know that it SHOULD sound good (because I know I like the music), so when it doesn't, the learning I gain from troubleshooting this is more focused, whereas I've often been quite lost trying to figure out how to make my music better.
> 
> ...


what scales do you use? write now im catching up on music theory and realized that the scales and modes are important


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## Trash Panda (Oct 26, 2021)

danzelmusic said:


> is the project for this out?


I haven't finished it yet, but here's the latest version.

I'll probably need assistance from some our resident synth heads to figure out the glitchy drums and the weird bridge synth sound.

Reaper Project File


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## danzelmusic (Oct 26, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I haven't finished it yet, but here's the latest version.
> 
> I'll probably need assistance from some our resident synth heads to figure out the glitchy drums and the weird bridge synth sound.
> 
> Reaper Project File


thanks alot. i'm going to start studying these and see what i come up with. it's a whole different production from the kpop, and other stuff i make. i created an account just because of this tread. you guys are all heroes


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## danzelmusic (Oct 26, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I haven't finished it yet, but here's the latest version.
> 
> I'll probably need assistance from some our resident synth heads to figure out the glitchy drums and the weird bridge synth sound.
> 
> Reaper Project File


how long does your production process usually take?


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## Trash Panda (Oct 26, 2021)

danzelmusic said:


> how long does your production process usually take?


Depends on a number of factors. The airship theme I wrote took three days from initial motif to full song, but it’s pretty basic. The Dancing Mad metal cover was 6 months of on and off effort.


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## jason3.14 (Oct 27, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I haven't finished it yet, but here's the latest version.
> 
> I'll probably need assistance from some our resident synth heads to figure out the glitchy drums and the weird bridge synth sound.
> 
> Reaper Project File


dood yea those glitchy drums! I had tried in my version but just didn't have that effect at all really lollll


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## jason3.14 (Oct 27, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Depends on a number of factors. The airship theme I wrote took three days from initial motif to full song, but it’s pretty basic. The Dancing Mad metal cover was 6 months of on and off effort.


did you ever post this?


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## Trash Panda (Oct 27, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> did you ever post this?


Sure did!






Final Fantasy 6 "Dancing Mad" Metal Opera Cover


After nearly 6 months of part time work in the few hours a day I get not working or playing dad/hubby, it is finally done. Finally! Welcome to nearly 19 minutes of insanity. Nobuo Uematsu's magnum opus in a symphonic metal style akin to a rock/metal opera. I stress the symphonic part as all...




vi-control.net


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## jason3.14 (Oct 27, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Sure did!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! I think I'm gonna have to wait until the weekend to listen to give the 18:50 it deserves! I started a new job which has been busy, but I hope to start posting here again in the near future.


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## Crowe (Nov 8, 2021)

I'm really into Sawano Hiroyuki now and am looking more into the techniques he uses. Currently, my focus is on the walls of percussion that carry quite a few of his tracks.

I'm rather interested in what goes on in these very, very busy percussion layers but I can't for the life of me actually reproduce any of it. Does anyone know if this type of percussion/technique has a name, of know of some tutorials / deep dives that may help? In whatever genre, really.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 8, 2021)

Crowe said:


> I'm really into Sawano Hiroyuki now and am looking more into the techniques he uses. Currently, my focus is on the walls of percussion that carry quite a few of his tracks.
> 
> I'm rather interested in what goes on in these very, very busy percussion layers but I can't for the life of me actually reproduce any of it. Does anyone know if this type of percussion/technique has a name, of know of some tutorials / deep dives that may help? In whatever genre, really.


You can reference my ThemeX project to see the layering he does in that track. Honestly, it sounds like he's using cinematic style percussion kits, but "plays" them like a nu-metal drum set. Lots of triplets, pauses, reminds me a lot of older Danny Carey drumming from Tool in a lot of cases.

Here's the snippet I'm referring to. It was done with AI Cerberus, but I'm sure could be replicated with Damage 1's Apocalypse (which I'm sure he used here, but I did not own it at the time) or Damage 2.

In this instance it's the layering of toms, gran casas, kick drums and snares from Cerberus, the pingey snare from Damage 1 Perc Bad A Krunch Kit, some layered sub hits from Damage 1 Perc Bad A Krunch and Captn Crunch n Punch Kit, along with the drum kit from Cerberus.

There's a ton of reverb and even more compression than I've used going into this as well.

ThemeX original:


Percussion from my WIP:
View attachment Xenoblade Chronicles X - ThemeX (Climax Percussion).mp3


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## jason3.14 (Nov 9, 2021)

Crowe said:


> I'm really into Sawano Hiroyuki now and am looking more into the techniques he uses. Currently, my focus is on the walls of percussion that carry quite a few of his tracks.
> 
> I'm rather interested in what goes on in these very, very busy percussion layers but I can't for the life of me actually reproduce any of it. Does anyone know if this type of percussion/technique has a name, of know of some tutorials / deep dives that may help? In whatever genre, really.








Tokyo Scoring Strings: Patch 1.0.5 available (fixed sample offsets)


Hi, programmer of the Tokyo Scoring engine here! Real-time is always the hardest thing, and the most sensible thing to do is to split the approaches. We can definitely add a low-latency "Recording Mode" if we deem it necessary, where everything will be reduced or as 0-latency as possible for...




vi-control.net





Maybe you'd find Andrew Aversa's comments informative, and something to look forward to. Otherwise, agree what @TrashPanda and others have mentioned earlier - I also like the PERC Bad A Krunch Kit snare from damage lol, although maybe better matches other Sawano tracks compared to ThemeX. Someone also recommended Addictive Drum's Studio Pop kit, and the default ringy snare sound you get there goes a long way in mimicking the vibe I hear from a lot of his tracks. People have also mentioned New Epic Taiko Ensemble, and I agree that would be worth looking into, as the room sound seems to match really well (probably because he uses it after all).

Feel free to peruse my attempt of that Theme X track as well for comparison (noting I didn't use Cerberus). Credits to TrashPanda though because I started with and tweaked his MIDI data, haha.


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## AkashicBird (Nov 9, 2021)

When people talk about cinematic percussion, what does that include? 
I mean, I know the type of sounds you can find under this umbrella, but what types of percussions are used? 
As for the effects I suppose it's about reverb and colorful compression (any settings suggestions? Fast attack high ratio?- as Trash panda was saying.)


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## jason3.14 (Nov 9, 2021)

AkashicBird said:


> When people talk about cinematic percussion, what does that include?
> I mean, I know the type of sounds you can find under this umbrella, but what types of percussions are used?
> As for the effects I suppose it's about reverb and colorful compression (any settings suggestions? Fast attack high ratio?- as Trash panda was saying.)


Or at least m7 bricasti reverb like seventh heaven as a starting point since Mitsunori Aizawa apparently favors it? Haha


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## Trash Panda (Nov 9, 2021)

AkashicBird said:


> When people talk about cinematic percussion, what does that include?
> I mean, I know the type of sounds you can find under this umbrella, but what types of percussions are used?
> As for the effects I suppose it's about reverb and colorful compression (any settings suggestions? Fast attack high ratio?- as Trash panda was saying.)


Big, loud, angry drums. Stuff like Damage 1/2, Hammers, Cerberus, Saga, Hans Zimmer Percussion, countless others.


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## AkashicBird (Nov 9, 2021)

Thanks for the suggestions. My question might have been confusing tho, I was actually looking into understanding the process beying building these king of sounds. Like, how do you go from classical orchestra percussion to the more modern "cinematic" sounds. Probably layering on top of effects too, idk.


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## AMBi (Nov 9, 2021)

Xenoblade X's soundtrack is such a gift


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## jason3.14 (Nov 9, 2021)

AkashicBird said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. My question might have been confusing tho, I was actually looking into understanding the process beying building these king of sounds. Like, how do you go from classical orchestra percussion to the more modern "cinematic" sounds. Probably layering on top of effects too, idk.


I think that's a great question, and one that I sense is difficult to answer, particularly as applies to the Japanese anime/game sound. I think that's why Impact Soundworks is so keen on recording their TSS sample library, to learn about and capture that sound from the best. So far I've been trying to figure that out over time via making covers and experimenting within them to get closer to that particular sound.

Although if you meant more generally the Hollywood style cinematic sound, I'm sure there are plenty of people on the forum who can guide you. :D


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## jason3.14 (Nov 10, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> You can reference my ThemeX project to see the layering he does in that track. Honestly, it sounds like he's using cinematic style percussion kits, but "plays" them like a nu-metal drum set. Lots of triplets, pauses, reminds me a lot of older Danny Carey drumming from Tool in a lot of cases.
> 
> Here's the snippet I'm referring to. It was done with AI Cerberus, but I'm sure could be replicated with Damage 1's Apocalypse (which I'm sure he used here, but I did not own it at the time) or Damage 2.
> 
> ...



BTW, what Gong were you using for this?


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## Trash Panda (Nov 10, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> BTW, what Gong were you using for this?


Damage 2. Best damn gongs I’ve heard so far.


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## Andrew Aversa (Nov 10, 2021)

I'm sure basically everyone here knows about our little project already, but we did get a nice testimonial from Mr. Sawano himself today 

_"I was curious about [TSS] because my work friends, Mr. Muroya and Mr. Aizawa, were involved in the project. It was recorded in a studio that I often use for my string recording. I've enjoyed using this library as its sound presence and moderate ambience is unique and different compared to overseas recorded libraries I usually use. I think it can be used effectively in a wide range of genres, not only for epic sounds, but also for band and dance music."_









Impact Soundworks Tokyo Scoring Strings (Kontakt Player VST, AU, AAX)


Our flagship orchestral string library featuring Koichiro Muroya Strings, Japan's top string ensemble heard on countless anime and game OSTs.




impactsoundworks.com


----------



## jason3.14 (Nov 17, 2021)

Andrew Aversa said:


> I'm sure basically everyone here knows about our little project already, but we did get a nice testimonial from Mr. Sawano himself today
> 
> _"I was curious about [TSS] because my work friends, Mr. Muroya and Mr. Aizawa, were involved in the project. It was recorded in a studio that I often use for my string recording. I've enjoyed using this library as its sound presence and moderate ambience is unique and different compared to overseas recorded libraries I usually use. I think it can be used effectively in a wide range of genres, not only for epic sounds, but also for band and dance music."_
> 
> ...


Haha this is awesome...! Wouldn't it be cool if we could hear Sawano or Nishiki use the strings in a track? That would be VERY intriguing  I mean, not that I didn't already pre-order TSS anyway....


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## danzelmusic (Nov 18, 2021)

I did this the other day guys


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## jason3.14 (Nov 20, 2021)

Johnny said:


> I sure can. I am a big fan of his work too. We should all recognize EWSO choir tenor shouts here,  Also the Heavyocity Woods:  Here you'll hear fragments of the Area51, Hybrid Rhythms 1, Main80bpm patch;  You should hear fragments of the Atlantic Patch, They are tricky to hear, but are often used as a background percussion bed layering, and then Damage over top or Epic Taiko Ensemble and libraries that are much more crisp and punchy.



Probably getting New Epic Taiko Ensemble this Black Friday. You guys have thoughts on the rest of 9dio's percussion ensembles? In general I've heard good things about Frame Drum, Dhol, and Toms, but I'll probably have to do more listening/digging to see if I really want those as well.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 25, 2021)

Wonder if you guys think there's an element of New Epic Frame Drum Ensemble in these tracks (timestamped) as well?


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## jason3.14 (Nov 27, 2021)

danzelmusic said:


> I did this the other day guys



Good job! I thought there were some nice ideas / sounds in there. I thought the strings/horns did get somewhat grating/repetitive over time though. Especially by 2:00 it started to sound like a loop. Overall I liked the percussion and glitch-sounding effects - what did you use for those?


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 8, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> dood yea those glitchy drums! I had tried in my version but just didn't have that effect at all really lollll


Here's TSS in ThemeX replacing the Jaeger strings, again largely relying on Lookahead mode. Such a brilliant feature. Horns are Infinite Brass which need a lot more tweaking.

Maybe someday I'll ask our resident synth experts for help figuring out the glitchy drums and the bridge lead synth so I can finally put this project to bed. 

Or maybe it's off to go play with more FF tracks with TSS. Yeah, that's a better idea! 

View attachment Xenoblade Chronicles X - ThemeX (TSS Draft).mp3


----------



## MSutherlandComp (Dec 8, 2021)

Finally finished writing this one! All MIDI, except the guitars.


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## jason3.14 (Dec 9, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Here's TSS in ThemeX replacing the Jaeger strings, again largely relying on Lookahead mode. Such a brilliant feature. Horns are Infinite Brass which need a lot more tweaking.
> 
> Maybe someday I'll ask our resident synth experts for help figuring out the glitchy drums and the bridge lead synth so I can finally put this project to bed.
> 
> ...


Great haha, looking forward to hearing more! I hope to reach a presentable state on my Octopath Traveler - Ophilia, The Cleric theme by end of the weekend hopefully. By the way, is the initial percussion that comes in on this mockup still Cerberus? Just wondering because it sounds pretty nice (although I'm on crap headphones atm).

Ah yea, I was experimenting with using Ferrum Free Edition, turning down the release, with FabFilter Saturn on board, set to one of the more distorted settings, and thought it had a kinda nice glitchy sound. I'll check this weekend to see if I still like it though lol


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## jason3.14 (Dec 9, 2021)

Johnny said:


> I hear a lot of 8Dio Hybrid Rhythms in Attack on Titan's score as well if you are interested, You'll also notice a lot of the Heavyocity's Ensemble Woods Collection in that soundtrack


Sooo, I had been thinking about getting 8dio New Hybrid Rhythms over Black Friday 2020, but wasn't completely sure if I wanted to yet. Thought I'd see what happened this season, and well it's FREE now LOL. Just picked it up!  Now I'm biding my time on the New Epic Taiko/Frame Drum Ensembles which are 60% off currently to see if I wanna bundle them with anything... since at least the taikos are used on some Sawano tracks as I understand it.









Hybrid Rhythms


The library comes with over 950 different epic grooves and free Rhythms offering you full control of each part. Everything is tempo-synced to your DAW and grooves were recorded at various BPM's from 80 to 140. The library ranges from absolute, merciless epic grooves to more subtle grooves for...




8dio.com


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## jason3.14 (Dec 9, 2021)

MSutherlandComp said:


> Finally finished writing this one! All MIDI, except the guitars.



Great job! Always happy to hear more of what people manage to make. This a gundam unicorn cover? Appreciate if you have a link to the original if so. I think the live guitars really added to the track. Nice drum set programming too. What string library did you use? Also, there's this nice percussive rhythm at 20 seconds into the track that reminds me of something I hear on Theme X. What did you make that with?


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## Trash Panda (Dec 10, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> By the way, is the initial percussion that comes in on this mockup still Cerberus? Just wondering because it sounds pretty nice (although I'm on crap headphones atm).


Yup!


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## MSutherlandComp (Dec 10, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> Great job! Always happy to hear more of what people manage to make. This a gundam unicorn cover? Appreciate if you have a link to the original if so. I think the live guitars really added to the track. Nice drum set programming too. What string library did you use? Also, there's this nice percussive rhythm at 20 seconds into the track that reminds me of something I hear on Theme X. What did you make that with?



Not a cover - original composition! The writing style and orchestration is inspired by Gundam Unicorn, though!

Strings are actually several things. Here's a list of all of them:

Performance Samples Fluid Shorts II
Berlin Strings Expansion E Measured Trills patch
CSS Violins I, Violins II, and Celli
MSS Basses
Performance Samples Vista Violins
SF Chamber Strings

That percussive rhythm you mention is a Darbuka from CinePerc, and a "Huge Drums" patch from Action Strikes (using the single hits).


----------



## jason3.14 (Dec 11, 2021)

MSutherlandComp said:


> Not a cover - original composition! The writing style and orchestration is inspired by Gundam Unicorn, though!
> 
> Strings are actually several things. Here's a list of all of them:
> 
> ...


Ah nice, that's quite impressive then! Yea, like the brass at 10-20 seconds in sounds like a Sawano motif for sure. Well done! Thanks for the tip on the percussion. I looked up the darbuka and it sounds pretty cool. The Huge Drums sounded nice there too. I see you have not committed to TSS yet? Haha


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## jason3.14 (Dec 12, 2021)

Here's my cover of Octopath Traveler - Ophilia, The Cleric. Hope you like it, and appreciate feedback! Only other instruments are some flute and horn instances from Nucleus, and a free harp. I also did some processing as well, for better or worse lol.

Great covers on the TSS thread as well:






Tokyo Scoring Strings: Patch 1.0.5 available (fixed sample offsets)


I really love the tone, openness, and detail, plus the dryness which lets you sculpt it how you see fit. The sound is very rich and thick. The variety of shorts is really nice, as are the advanced options for attacks and releases. I gotta mention though, this library takes up a TON of ram...




vi-control.net


----------



## mybadmemory (Dec 12, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> Here's my cover of Octopath Traveler - Ophilia, The Cleric. Hope you like it, and appreciate feedback! Only other instruments are some flute and horn instances from Nucleus, and a free harp. I also did some processing as well, for better or worse lol.
> 
> Great covers on the TSS thread as well:
> 
> ...


Hah! Before I read it I recognised the Nucleus flute and, I assume, the EtherealWinds Harp? :D


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## jason3.14 (Dec 12, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Hah! Before I read it I recognised the Nucleus flute and, I assume, the EtherealWinds Harp? :D


Daang on point... you are correct!  I think I might try Octopath Traveler Decisive Battle II next!


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## Albert Kim (Dec 18, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> Daang on point... you are correct!  I think I might try Octopath Traveler Decisive Battle II next!


Hey I am wondering which brass libraries you used to create your aot mockups?


----------



## Dylan Aot Stuff (Dec 19, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Hiroyuki Sawano has been my favorite composer for years, and recently I've been trying to cover his tracks with modest but limited success. When I've looked for tips/tutorials online, I've not been sure if what I've found has been applicable to Sawano's style - I don't think I'd consider it flat out trailer or classical orchestral music, and maybe hybrid would be adequate... but really it sounds like cinematic anime music (haha) which I feel is quite distinct from artists like Bergersen or Audiomachine.
> 
> ...


sawano used 8dio majestica for the violins. here is an example:


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## jason3.14 (Dec 19, 2021)

Albert Kim said:


> Hey I am wondering which brass libraries you used to create your aot mockups?


Thanks for asking - could you clarify which cover you're interested in?


----------



## jason3.14 (Dec 26, 2021)

Day #5 WIP of Octopath Traveler Battle Theme 1:

View attachment Octopath Traveler - Battle I.mp3


Between layering Legato with the various Shorts articulations (and a lot of automation lol), I feel like TSS can deliver very agile, lively, convincing passages! Very excited to continue with filling out the rest of the arrangement (teaser near the end), and hope you like it!


----------



## Verlo (Dec 27, 2021)

Hi guys, I just discovered this discussion because I'm also a big fan of sawano's works!
I recently made this track using :
- Metropolis Ark1
- Action Strikes
- Factory library
- The orchestra complete
- Addictive drums 2 and Damage 2

What do you think of this? 

Thanks a lot,
Lucas


----------



## jason3.14 (Dec 28, 2021)

Verlo said:


> Hi guys, I just discovered this discussion because I'm also a big fan of sawano's works!
> I recently made this track using :
> - Metropolis Ark1
> - Stylux rmx
> ...


Hi Lucas, nice job! I enjoyed hearing the synth sound coming in at the beginning - what did you use for that? The Metropolis Ark characteristic sound was definitely there as well haha. I found that the drum set seemed overly compressed and forward, so maybe that could be pulled back in the mix? I'm curious which parts were represented by Stylus RMX as well, since I've been interested since I heard Sawano makes/made use of it often. It did end up feeling a bit repetitive, but in any case the track did bring a smile to my face hearing it!


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## ip20 (Dec 29, 2021)

Verlo said:


> Hi guys, I just discovered this discussion because I'm also a big fan of sawano's works!
> I recently made this track using :
> - Metropolis Ark1
> - Stylux rmx
> ...



Sawano vibe is there for sure!


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## Verlo (Dec 30, 2021)

jason3.14 said:


> Hi Lucas, nice job! I enjoyed hearing the synth sound coming in at the beginning - what did you use for that? The Metropolis Ark characteristic sound was definitely there as well haha. I found that the drum set seemed overly compressed and forward, so maybe that could be pulled back in the mix? I'm curious which parts were represented by Stylus RMX as well, since I've been interested since I heard Sawano makes/made use of it often. It did end up feeling a bit repetitive, but in any case the track did bring a smile to my face hearing it!


Thanks a lot for your words!
For the intro synth, I used two layers : A preset from Roland Jupiter-8 ("Poly Stack") and a preset from Sylenth1 ("arp blade runner").
Yes I think you're right from the drums, I have some issues to make them sound good with other instruments !
I thought that I used stylux rmx in this project but after looking back on it, it was not the case. x)

Yeah, Sawano use rmx frequently especialy for those synthetic/rythmic drums.

So glad it gave you that smile haha! :D
Lucas


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## danzelmusic (Jan 1, 2022)

jason3.14 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Hiroyuki Sawano has been my favorite composer for years, and recently I've been trying to cover his tracks with modest but limited success. When I've looked for tips/tutorials online, I've not been sure if what I've found has been applicable to Sawano's style - I don't think I'd consider it flat out trailer or classical orchestral music, and maybe hybrid would be adequate... but really it sounds like cinematic anime music (haha) which I feel is quite distinct from artists like Bergersen or Audiomachine.
> 
> ...


Can you like some of the tutorials you've come across. and anyone else please. been looking for those


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## jason3.14 (Jan 2, 2022)

danzelmusic said:


> Can you like some of the tutorials you've come across. and anyone else please. been looking for those


Hmm, you could watch other composers compose online, e.g. Daniel James, Dirk Ehlert, Alex Pfeffer, Chris Siu, and others. Or consider Alex Moukala Music and Alex Moukala Tutorials (two different channels)? For instance, you may like something like this:



It helped me springboard into practicing a cover of that same track.


----------



## Paul Owen (Feb 5, 2022)

Such a great thread for an immensely underrated composer. I discovered Sawano a year ago after I started watching Attack on Titan (I'm caught up, it's amazing) and haven't stopped listening to his work since. 

Getting back to the original topic I was wondering if anyone knew how I could recreate the sound design heard at the beginning of Apetitan. 
Lots of guitars feedbacking etc but there's this percussion bassy synth sound that I would love recreate. It's all before the main string riff kicks in.


----------



## jason3.14 (Feb 5, 2022)

Paul Owen said:


> Such a great thread for an immensely underrated composer. I discovered Sawano a year ago after I started watching Attack on Titan (I'm caught up, it's amazing) and haven't stopped listening to his work since.
> 
> Getting back to the original topic I was wondering if anyone knew how I could recreate the sound design heard at the beginning of Apetitan.
> Lots of guitars feedbacking etc but there's this percussion bassy synth sound that I would love recreate. It's all before the main string riff kicks in.



Glad you joined the thread! Yea I've been watching Attack on Titan from the beginning once more and am almost through S2 again, so good! Are you referring to the synth that comes in at 0:16? Or that weird effect at like 0:23?


----------



## jason3.14 (Feb 5, 2022)

jason3.14 said:


> Day #5 WIP of Octopath Traveler Battle Theme 1:
> 
> View attachment Octopath Traveler - Battle I.mp3
> 
> ...



Basically a repost from the main TSS thread but, hoped to share my progress on this here as well.

Octopath Traveler Battle Theme 1 (full mix):
View attachment Octopath Traveler - Battle I.mp3


Octopath Traveler Battle Theme 1 (strings only):
View attachment Octopath Traveler - Battle I (TSS).mp3


Not Hiroyuki Sawano, but probably good to change the thread title to including anime/game music in general haha (if I could figure out how to change the title). Hope you like it!


----------



## Crowe (Feb 5, 2022)

jason3.14 said:


> Basically a repost from the main TSS thread but, hoped to share my progress on this here as well.
> 
> Octopath Traveler Battle Theme 1 (full mix):
> View attachment Octopath Traveler - Battle I.mp3
> ...


I'm pretty sure we have that thread floating around somewhere. Probably high time to blow some new life into it, I quite like the fact that this one is limited to Hiroyuki.


----------



## Paul Owen (Feb 5, 2022)

jason3.14 said:


> Glad you joined the thread! Yea I've been watching Attack on Titan from the beginning once more and am almost through S2 again, so good! Are you referring to the synth that comes in at 0:16? Or that weird effect at like 0:23?


All of it 😉


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## jason3.14 (Feb 9, 2022)

Paul Owen said:


> All of it 😉


Sorry for late response - I'm not the greatest on sound design, but for synth basses like that, I think there are probably a lot of options - Keepforest Devastator among others comes to mind if you want something out of the box, but you could always try to make your own such as in Serum, u-He Diva, etc?


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## Hurakion (Mar 17, 2022)

Paul Owen said:


> All of it 😉


Search "Spit" from Omnisphere, almost all of the sounds can be found there.


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## Paul Owen (Mar 17, 2022)

Hurakion said:


> Search "Spit" from Omnisphere, almost all of the sounds can be found there.


Thanks dude. Gotta get Omnisphere then. P.s awesome to see you in this forum mate👍


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## Hurakion (Mar 17, 2022)

Paul Owen said:


> Thanks dude. Gotta get Omnisphere then. P.s awesome to see you in this forum mate👍


Yess definitely, Omnisphere is amazing. If i had to buy any synth to start out with, it would be Omnisphere (now that I know what it is capable of). Also you too, it has been a very interesting read, always nice to find other Sawano fans.


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## FX fxhp (Apr 6, 2022)

Paul Owen said:


> Such a great thread for an immensely underrated composer. I discovered Sawano a year ago after I started watching Attack on Titan (I'm caught up, it's amazing) and haven't stopped listening to his work since.
> 
> Getting back to the original topic I was wondering if anyone knew how I could recreate the sound design heard at the beginning of Apetitan.
> Lots of guitars feedbacking etc but there's this percussion bassy synth sound that I would love recreate. It's all before the main string riff kicks in.



Sawano is a Omnisphere lover, he used this vst in Kabaneri of the iron fortress, Attack on Titan, Kill la Kill, JDramas, and others. Basically the beginning of APETITAN is "rad drug"(audio 1) and "power blowout"(audio 2). 
Regards


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## Trash Panda (Apr 6, 2022)

FX fxhp said:


> Sawano is a Omnisphere lover, he used this vst in Kabaneri of the iron fortress, Attack on Titan, Kill la Kill, JDramas, and others. Basically the beginning of APETITAN is "rad drug"(audio 1) and "power blowout"(audio 2). I have analyzed too much the harmony and the synths that has occupied Sawano.
> Regards


So with you having a good ear for this, can you tell us what the glitchy drum sounds in Theme X are from?


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## FX fxhp (Apr 6, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> So with you having a good ear for this, can you tell us what the glitchy drum sounds in Theme X are from?


I don't know, could be BATTERY vst. 
Maybe the last thing I said sounded smug, but I was excited to find this post haha.


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## Trash Panda (Apr 6, 2022)

FX fxhp said:


> I don't know. Maybe the last thing I said sounded smug, but I was excited to find this post haha.


Wasn’t taking it as smug. Was taking it as our savior had arrived! Help us FX wan Kenobi! You’re our only hope!


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## FX fxhp (Apr 6, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Wasn’t taking it as smug. Was taking it as our savior had arrived! Help us FX wan Kenobi! You’re our only hope!


aaaah hahaha is difficult, because you can create a similar sound with differents vst


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## Trash Panda (Apr 6, 2022)

FX fxhp said:


> aaaah hahaha is difficult, because you can create a similar sound with differents vst


I will take it! The glitchy drums and bridge synth is all that’s holding this track up from being considered done.


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## FX fxhp (Apr 6, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I will take it! The glitchy drums and bridge synth is all that’s holding this track up from being considered done.


mmm... I have seen a video where sawano uses BATTERY, I thought it could also be Damage 1, another option would be StylusRMX that has also occupied it


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## Dylan Aot Stuff (Apr 11, 2022)

does anyone know which presets sawano used for youseebiggirl?


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## Paul Owen (Apr 11, 2022)

Dylan Aot Stuff said:


> does anyone know which presets sawano used for youseebiggirl?


"Accidental Magic" Omnisphere preset (for the synth part)


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## Dylan Aot Stuff (Apr 12, 2022)

i know that i meant the other presets


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## Paul Owen (Apr 12, 2022)

Dylan Aot Stuff said:


> i know that i meant the other presets


Oh shit, sorry. I forgot to use my mind reading powers when responding. I should have known that YOU knew that. *Slaps own face as punishment*


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## Dylan Aot Stuff (Apr 12, 2022)

oof


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## Paul Owen (Apr 12, 2022)

Dylan Aot Stuff said:


> oof


Soz hun. 

In the interests of this thread I hope someone comes up with the goods for you.


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## HM_Music (May 20, 2022)

How to get these sounds that sound at 2:20 there are 2 leads, one of which at the end is modulated by a beatcrasher.
I am almost done with this project, only this part is left.

I have Diva, Serum, DS Thorn...


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## MSutherlandComp (May 20, 2022)

I rescored Gundam Unicorn using a full live 60-person orchestra (plus some samples for those phat brass chords, some perc, choir, etc.) at Warner Bros. Sawano-esque part starts at like 1:07-ish.

Session footage, plus mixed audio (disclaimer: I am an awful conductor):



And if you wanna see dubbed with dialogue, SFX, etc. you can see here:



And I'm attaching the score and mockup for anyone curious enough.


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## Angora (May 20, 2022)

Wow that's awesome ! It must have been incredible for you to feel the sound of an real orchestra in front of you ! I hope I get that opportunity for my music one day too! You must have spent a lot of time preparing the session and the scores, were you alone for that or do you have a team around you ?


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## constaneum (May 20, 2022)

HM_Music said:


> How to get these sounds that sound at 2:20 there are 2 leads, one of which at the end is modulated by a beatcrasher.
> I am almost done with this project, only this part is left.
> 
> I have Diva, Serum, DS Thorn...



What other libraries used such as strings, brass?


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## HM_Music (May 21, 2022)

constaneum said:


> What other libraries used such as strings, brass?


I'm sorry, I got tired yesterday and didn't express myself correctly.
The song I posted is the original hiroyuki sawano music, it's not my work.
I'm trying to repeat this song and I can't do anything even close to what it sounds like on 2-20.


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## constaneum (May 21, 2022)

HM_Music said:


> I'm sorry, I got tired yesterday and didn't express myself correctly.
> The song I posted is the original hiroyuki sawano music, it's not my work.
> I'm trying to repeat this song and I can't do anything even close to what it sounds like on 2-20.


Ah my mistake


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## MSutherlandComp (May 21, 2022)

Angora said:


> Wow that's awesome ! It must have been incredible for you to feel the sound of an real orchestra in front of you ! I hope I get that opportunity for my music one day too! You must have spent a lot of time preparing the session and the scores, were you alone for that or do you have a team around you ?


It was like a super delayed final project for school, so I didn’t have to handle contracting for musicians or the space, luckily! 

Did all the composition, orchestration, score engraving, pt session prep, etc myself. However, I most certainly DID have proofreaders to check that my harmonic spellings made sense etc. 

Overall, great experience!


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## Madao (May 27, 2022)

jason3.14 said:


> Here's the current state of my Promare Theme cover! Guess it took me awhile as I'm not particularly efficient with my workflow, tweaking everything all the time lol. Inspired by @MSutherlandComp's shire whistle work on his "7Tsuno:the1" cover as well.
> 
> Appreciate comments, and hope you like it! Can provide project file/MIDI/video if anyone is interested. I might continue extending the track, but probably will take a break from this project for now as I'm itching to check out @Trash Panda's Xenoblade Theme X project file, haha


Hello, CAN YOU PLEASE UPLOAD THE PROJECT FILE? LITTERALLY THAT COVER IS SO GOOD, SPOT ON! I WOULD BE SO HAPPY IF YOU WOULD UPLOAD THE PROJECT FILE!!!!!! IM SUPER VERY INTERESTED!!


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## jason3.14 (May 28, 2022)

Madao said:


> Hello, CAN YOU PLEASE UPLOAD THE PROJECT FILE? LITTERALLY THAT COVER IS SO GOOD, SPOT ON! I WOULD BE SO HAPPY IF YOU WOULD UPLOAD THE PROJECT FILE!!!!!! IM SUPER VERY INTERESTED!!


Sure! I'll send it to you directly - thanks for your interest


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## jason3.14 (May 28, 2022)

MSutherlandComp said:


> It was like a super delayed final project for school, so I didn’t have to handle contracting for musicians or the space, luckily!
> 
> Did all the composition, orchestration, score engraving, pt session prep, etc myself. However, I most certainly DID have proofreaders to check that my harmonic spellings made sense etc.
> 
> Overall, great experience!


That's so awesome! Happy that you got to experience that - and yea it sounded great! Thanks for sharing!


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## ARYANNANDHA0 (Jun 4, 2022)

Hi guys! It's my first post here, but I've been lurking on this thread for quite long and found it extremely useful! I made a sawano type song, but I'm quite new to this, so I'd love to hear some feedback! (it's not finished at all yet)


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## jason3.14 (Jun 4, 2022)

ARYANNANDHA0 said:


> Hi guys! It's my first post here, but I've been lurking on this thread for quite long and found it extremely useful! I made a sawano type song, but I'm quite new to this, so I'd love to hear some feedback! (it's not finished at all yet)


Welcome to the thread! I like the guitar tone overall, though maybe sounds a little mechanical. A very workable drum groove, although maybe needs some compression? Strings seem a little distant as well to me, but maybe my preference. Anyway, look forward to hearing if you end up updating it! Good job so far!


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## ARYANNANDHA0 (Jun 5, 2022)

jason3.14 said:


> Welcome to the thread! I like the guitar tone overall, though maybe sounds a little mechanical. A very workable drum groove, although maybe needs some compression? Strings seem a little distant as well to me, but maybe my preference. Anyway, look forward to hearing if you end up updating it! Good job so far!



thank you so much! I continued the song shortly after posting that; ill defo work on the things you mentioned! Sorry to be a bother, but could you critique this too? I'm only asking since I've heard a lot of your tracks and they're amazing!


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## jason3.14 (Jun 9, 2022)

ARYANNANDHA0 said:


> thank you so much! I continued the song shortly after posting that; ill defo work on the things you mentioned! Sorry to be a bother, but could you critique this too? I'm only asking since I've heard a lot of your tracks and they're amazing!


Thanks, I'm glad you like them! Hmm, the guitar solo/fill beginning around 34 seconds sounds kind of mechanical as well, for instance the bend at 40 seconds. Drum groove could probably use some fills as well, otherwise it risks sounding repetitive. My previous comments still stand as well.  Although I don't have access to my usual headphones at the moment, so feel free to take this with a grain of salt! Good luck!


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## jason3.14 (Jun 12, 2022)

Youtube suggested I watch this, and it really made me feel the Sawano hype haha:



I thought it was new, but eventually realized it was from 2019. It got me thinking though, if you guys had to choose one percussion library that you think best fit the Sawano epic style, what would you go for? Hans Zimmer Percussion, CinePerc, other?


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## HM_Music (Jun 12, 2022)

jason3.14 said:


> Youtube suggested I watch this, and it really made me feel the Sawano hype haha:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it was new, but eventually realized it was from 2019. It got me thinking though, if you guys had to choose one percussion library that you think best fit the Sawano epic style, what would you go for? Hans Zimmer Percussion, CinePerc, other?



I would choose to wait for the release of the Impact Soundworks Percussion Library)
I think the closest would be Tom Holkenborg Percussion, although I don't have it.








Tom Holkenborg's Percussion


Tom Holkenborg’s Percussion gives you the triple-A composer’s very own drum collection—the exact same drums you heard in Mad Max: Fury Road, Zack Snyder’s Justice League, and Godzilla vs. Kong.




www.orchestraltools.com


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## jason3.14 (Jun 12, 2022)

HM_Music said:


> I would choose to wait for the release of the Impact Soundworks Percussion Library)
> I think the closest would be Tom Holkenborg Percussion, although I don't have it.
> 
> 
> ...


Totally! I think Tokyo Scoring Drums is probably going to be a must buy for me - but if I understand correctly, I think it's going to be more geared towards like, Drum Sets/Kits rather than traditional percussion, unless there's another ISW percussion in the pipeline I'm not aware of. Whereas I'm very looking forward to TSD fulfilling the role of a lot of those rock-ish parts in Sawano tracks, I guess I was wondering more about traditional percussion.

But yea thanks for the suggestion on Tom Holkenborg's Percussion - I wasn't aware of it (though I always hear good things about JXL). Looks promising, so I'll look into it/keep it on my radar!


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Jun 12, 2022)

One of the biggest features of Sawano's music imo is it's mixed and mastered very loud. He has probably the loudest scores I've ever heard. And I'm calling it a "feature" because sometimes it seems like they preferred to keep loudness over clarity, which is not always a mistake but an artistic choise - it gives sense of "pleasing busyness" to music(or "pleasing sense of busyness"?).


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## HM_Music (Jul 3, 2022)

Who has Forzo Brass?
Can you confirm that this library is as close as possible to the sound of the sawano unicorn


or


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## Trash Panda (Jul 5, 2022)

Forzo Brass has no legato, so it would not sound like these examples for the flowing lines. Forzo is also a lot wetter than these horns sound. 

You could get a pretty similar sound out of any decent a2 or a4 horn patch in any studio sized libraries. Hollywood Brass or Audio Imperia would do just fine.


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## jason3.14 (Jul 5, 2022)

I don't have Forzo Brass, but would probably agree with Trash Panda.

Although, I think Sawano's horn lines are tighter and more contained in each note's timbral evolution (?) compared to what I expected at the outset, and from what I was desiring from Audio Imperia Jaeger. Not to say that I don't like Jaeger, since I still use it all the time particularly for ease of use for mockups - and also that critique is likely not unique to Jaeger.

So from my experience trying to do Sawano mockups, I think it best to prioritize 1) tightness and 2) timbral control for brass, particularly for his epic horn lines - specifically for this reason, I just purchased Infinite Brass and anticipate it will best suit my needs for this style. Well I'll let you know if it works out haha.


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## HM_Music (Jul 5, 2022)

I didn't even think they released the library without legato... Yes it's very sad, although in spite of that I just bought Forzo + damage 2 anyway.
The other libraries seem to get to the forefront of the mix, no matter how I set the mics and I can't mix them the way I want. At the same time Forzo sounds where I want it out of the box, and the timbre is similar.
At first I wanted to buy Tom Holkenborg's Brass, but I don't want to use the OT sampler, plus it seemed to me that Savano rarely uses that kind of sound.

When I found out that there is no legato here, I got very upset... I will be glad to know how you use Forzo, originally I was planning to use CSB+Forzo or Ark1+Forzo. But I don't know what it would be like to mix two libraries with legato and without it.


I've been thinking a lot about Infinite Brass lately too, so I would be happy to know or hear how it sounds in context.

Audio Imperia does not seem to me suitable for this kind of sound, it is too trailer-synthetic.
And I don't like EastWest, although I think the Hollywood Brass library is good.


I wish the Impact Soundworks libraries had come out sooner. I want to get the whole Tokyo collection.


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## HM_Music (Jul 5, 2022)

Did a quick test of the sound out of the box in the context of the TSS of several libraries. And yet I like the way Forzo sits in the mix. It's a shame legato doesn't

Forzo
View attachment Forzo.mp3

CSB Ens 4 Horn
View attachment CSB 4 Horn.mp3

CSB Solo Horn
View attachment CSB Solo Horn.mp3

CineBrassPro Solo Horn
View attachment CineBrassPro Solo Horn.mp3

CineBrassPro Ens 12 Horn
View attachment CineBrassPro 12 Horn.mp3

Caspian Ens 6 Horn
View attachment OT Caspian a6.mp3

OT Majestic
View attachment OT Majestic Horn.mp3


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## HM_Music (Jul 5, 2022)

OT Ark 1 a3
View attachment OT Ark1 a3.mp3

OT Ark 1 a9
View attachment OT Ark1 a9.mp3

OT Berlin Ens 4 Horn
View attachment OT Berlin Ens 4 Horn.mp3

OT Berlin Horn 1
View attachment OT Berlin Horn 1.mp3

OT Berlin Horn 2
View attachment OT Berlin Horn 2.mp3

OT Berlin Horn 3
View attachment OT Berlin Horn 3.mp3

OT Berlin Horn 4
View attachment OT Berlin Horn 4.mp3


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## HM_Music (Jul 5, 2022)

Albion 1 Hi
View attachment Albion 1 Hi.mp3

Albion 1 Mid
View attachment Albion 1 Mid.mp3


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## jason3.14 (Jul 5, 2022)

HM_Music said:


> I didn't even think they released the library without legato... Yes it's very sad, although in spite of that I just bought Forzo + damage 2 anyway.


Ah dang sad to hear they don't have legato! At least for what it's worth, I've had better success with marcato compared with legato for most Sawano lines anyway... which I figure is again a function of legato sometimes not being fast/tight enough for me.



HM_Music said:


> I've been thinking a lot about Infinite Brass lately too, so I would be happy to know or hear how it sounds in context.


If I have time this weekend I'll try to post a clip of IB - or alternatively I'll find some clips that others have provided to me which helped me make my decision to get IB!



HM_Music said:


> Audio Imperia does not seem to me suitable for this kind of sound, it is too trailer-synthetic.


Agree! I assume JXL Brass may be the same way. I would have thought Forzo would have been as well, but yea I don't know too much about it.



HM_Music said:


> I wish the Impact Soundworks libraries had come out sooner. I want to get the whole Tokyo collection.


Same! I think TSB might be last on their list though (after Drums/Percussion and I think after Woodwinds too). I haven't had time to listen to your audio comparisons, but greatly appreciate you doing that for us!


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## FX fxhp (Jul 17, 2022)

Hi, I started doing a mockup of vogel im kafig, still missing several details and it's not finished...

View attachment Vogel M.mp3

Here I used Soundiron Symphony Series Brass, however, I would not say that it is a library for legatos.
I have not been able to decide for a definitive horns library.


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## ARYANNANDHA0 (Sep 23, 2022)

FX fxhp said:


> Hi, I started doing a mockup of vogel im kafig, still missing several details and it's not finished...
> 
> View attachment Vogel M.mp3
> 
> ...


it sounds great !!


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## jason3.14 (Sep 23, 2022)

FX fxhp said:


> Hi, I started doing a mockup of vogel im kafig, still missing several details and it's not finished...
> 
> View attachment Vogel M.mp3
> 
> ...


Forgot to reply (for months) but yea it sounds pretty nice! Any updates on it?


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## Reznov981 (Sep 24, 2022)

FX fxhp said:


> I have not been able to decide for a definitive horns library.


Most would say JunkieXL Brass by OT if you're still looking for a top brass library. Its biggest strength are massive ensemble sizes and the top dynamics going above and beyond your typical library, but in every other major respect is respectable too.


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## jason3.14 (Oct 23, 2022)

I always tend to come back to this track of Sawano's:



I tend to have a lot of trouble getting a low end I'm satisfied with, and wondered what people's thoughts are on getting the bass drum/taiko/gran cassa sound like occurs at the start of every measure in this track starting from 26 seconds in. Appreciate it!

Thanks!
Jason


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## FX fxhp (Oct 30, 2022)

jason3.14 said:


> Forgot to reply (for months) but yea it sounds pretty nice! Any updates on it?


sincerely, I haven't made much progress since the last time, because I've had enough work....but here goes 
View attachment vogel2.mp3


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## FX fxhp (Oct 30, 2022)

jason3.14 said:


> I always tend to come back to this track of Sawano's:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe combining drums/taiko with sub bass percussion. Sometimes I add some electronic percussion that has enough low frequencies and I remove the high frequencies


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## Stupendo_64 (Nov 8, 2022)

Hello There I am new but came across your post after I was google searching how to compose like Hiroyuki Sawano. But Let me just say your track sounds great and very much like Sawano San's Scores.


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## jason3.14 (Nov 8, 2022)

Wasn't sure if you were referring to one of my tracks or someone else's, but thanks on behalf of everyone!


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## Stupendo_64 (Dec 12, 2022)

First post here and was super interested in Sawano's stuff. And started composing only a few months ago. I would like some feedback on a piece I have been working on but not sure how to progress in particular what chords I should use and how to give it that Sawano flair. Or that sound where its like this low boom or rising sound. My track is set at 128bpm in the key of A major. I wanted it to sound like CC...12YL from Gundam Hathaway's Flash. The sound effect also appears in CC...12YL at the 30second mark and it appears alot in his works. I think Hans Zimmer as well where its like a wall of sound sort of.

Ps: I was referring to the guy that started the forum who created a track called Revival but also everyone elses og compositions have been amazing and well done.


jason3.14 said:


> Wasn't sure if you were referring to one of my tracks or someone else's, but thanks on behalf of everyone!


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## Lord Daknight (Dec 13, 2022)

FX fxhp said:


> Hi, I started doing a mockup of vogel im kafig, still missing several details and it's not finished...
> 
> View attachment Vogel M.mp3
> 
> ...


One of my favourites, I'm one of the few who prefer it to YouseeBIGGIRL. I think Symphony sounds perfect in the non exposed parts, perhaps it's good for layering but you might need more convincing Legato horns for the next parts.


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## jason3.14 (Dec 14, 2022)

FX fxhp said:


> sincerely, I haven't made much progress since the last time, because I've had enough work....but here goes
> View attachment vogel2.mp3


sorry for delayed response again (didn't see post lol). Overall I think it sounds really nice! Was relistening to the original, I feel like the strings/brass sounded more distance there - if it matters!


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## jason3.14 (Dec 14, 2022)

Stupendo_64 said:


> First post here and was super interested in Sawano's stuff. And started composing only a few months ago. I would like some feedback on a piece I have been working on but not sure how to progress in particular what chords I should use and how to give it that Sawano flair. Or that sound where its like this low boom or rising sound. My track is set at 128bpm in the key of A major. I wanted it to sound like CC...12YL from Gundam Hathaway's Flash. The sound effect also appears in CC...12YL at the 30second mark and it appears alot in his works. I think Hans Zimmer as well where its like a wall of sound sort of.
> 
> Ps: I was referring to the guy that started the forum who created a track called Revival but also everyone elses og compositions have been amazing and well done.



Thanks, appreciate it! 

I'm so bad with sound design so probably won't be able to say much about about your synths (though wonder if they could be sharper like a saw wave, whereas they sound more sine wave ish? haha).

If you're referring to the rise/boom at 0:16-17s and 0:24s - to me, the rise mainly sounds like snare roll combined with suspended cymbal roll. As for the boom, I'd like to say it's a simple low boom that one may find in a variety of percussion libraries, though honestly I've been surprised at how difficult it can be to sound-match his "simple" sounding percussion. That said, I've been using a low boom from Jaeger, but I'm sure the other flagship percussion libraries would have something similar.


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## jason3.14 (Jan 1, 2023)

Finally finished this Genshin medley after over 3 months.... 



The source is not Sawano, but I tried to draw on his style (particularly thinking Theme X), using synths, bongos, a rock section, french horn countermelodies, and just having just big climactic sections. Also in particular had some Hybrid Rhythms, Epic Taiko Ensemble, and Epic Frame Drum Ensemble (at least I thought I heard the latter in a track of his). Appreciate your thoughts!


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## Paul Owen (Jan 2, 2023)

jason3.14 said:


> Finally finished this Genshin medley after over 3 months....
> 
> 
> 
> The source is not Sawano, but I tried to draw on his style (particularly thinking Theme X), using synths, bongos, a rock section, french horn countermelodies, and just having just big climactic sections. Also in particular had some Hybrid Rhythms, Epic Taiko Ensemble, and Epic Frame Drum Ensemble (at least I thought I heard the latter in a track of his). Appreciate your thoughts!



I really love this Jason, well done. I've subbed to your channel too. What choir libs did you use? they sound amazing.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jan 2, 2023)

jason3.14 said:


> Finally finished this Genshin medley after over 3 months....
> 
> 
> 
> The source is not Sawano, but I tried to draw on his style (particularly thinking Theme X), using synths, bongos, a rock section, french horn countermelodies, and just having just big climactic sections. Also in particular had some Hybrid Rhythms, Epic Taiko Ensemble, and Epic Frame Drum Ensemble (at least I thought I heard the latter in a track of his). Appreciate your thoughts!



This sounds great!! The mix is also super well done. Nothing sticks out to me while listening. Very enjoyable! Subscribed 

@mybadmemory Did you hear this?


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## jason3.14 (Jan 2, 2023)

Paul Owen said:


> I really love this Jason, well done. I've subbed to your channel too. What choir libs did you use? they sound amazing.


Thank you for the listen and sub!  I used Jaeger's Merethe Soltvedt as a soloist and backing chorus throughout the track. I think it used to be purchasable alone (Jaeger Hangar 4, base price $99), but not sure anymore. Rhodope was used for the cliumactic sections, and Vocalisa for a trill at 1:22. I'm very partial to Slavic choirs, haha.


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## jason3.14 (Jan 2, 2023)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This sounds great!! The mix is also super well done. Nothing sticks out to me while listening. Very enjoyable! Subscribed
> 
> @mybadmemory Did you hear this?


Thanks Henrik, appreciate it! Recently I've been worried about my subbass but glad it didn't hit you hard on your system.


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## Paul Owen (Jan 2, 2023)

jason3.14 said:


> Thank you for the listen and sub!  I used Jaeger's Merethe Soltvedt as a soloist and backing chorus throughout the track. I think it used to be purchasable alone (Jaeger Hangar 4, base price $99), but not sure anymore. Rhodope was used for the cliumactic sections, and Vocalisa for a trill at 1:22. I'm very partial to Slavic choirs, haha.


Rhodope sounds amazing 👍


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## jason3.14 (Jan 2, 2023)

Paul Owen said:


> Rhodope sounds amazing 👍


Yea, really easy to use too, or at least all I did really was throw on the performance patch and let it cycle it's syllables automatically - you can get it for ~$107 on Best Service using their coupon (today's the last day I think)


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## Stupendo_64 (Wednesday at 11:57 PM)

What is the chord progression of the strings and how many tracks on the file?


jason3.14 said:


> Basically a repost from the main TSS thread but, hoped to share my progress on this here as well.
> 
> Octopath Traveler Battle Theme 1 (full mix):
> View attachment Octopath Traveler - Battle I.mp3
> ...


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## jason3.14 (Yesterday at 8:03 PM)

Stupendo_64 said:


> What is the chord progression of the strings and how many tracks on the file?


Mm, not sure I'd be able to efficiently help with chord progression identification. But you can often find useful sheet music for songs, such as this one: https://musescore.com/user/29256865/scores/5165620
I transcribed this my version by hand, but that sheet music should be good enough to identify chords. 

This was only 34 tracks (compared to my latest post which was more like 95). I used 2 instances (Longs and Shorts) each of violin 1, cello, and bass, and 3 instances each (Longs, Shorts x2) of violins 2 and viola) I believe.


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