# Hollywood Strings: worth an upgrade to diamond?



## dadadave (Feb 12, 2020)

There's currently a sale on upgrades at East West. I own Hollywood Strings gold and now I wonder if the update to the diamond edition is worth it for me (it's "only" 98$ atm).

On one hand:

the additional mic positions might make it easier to mix with other libraries and 
there's additional bow change legato articulations.
I get along fine with Play.

On the other hand:

I have Century Strings and CSS that I was considering making those my main string libraries (I also have Adventure Strings and Orchestral String Runs to complement these). I'm not sure if it wouldn't be smarter for me to really focus on and learn these, rather than bloat my template with yet more string options...
The diamond edition takes up an obscene 310GB of precious SSD space
I'm not a huge fan of how the library is structured, it's hard to gauge which patches overlap and which ones complement each other, just from looking at the names

Of course a lot of this is purely subjective, but I wonder if anyone else has found themselves pondering this. Did you upgrade from Hollywood Strings Gold to Diamond and feel it was worth it? Given today's string library landscape, would you say that's still a worthwhile upgrade to make? Would you say Hollywood Strings adds significantly different sounds to a string palette that has Century Strings and CSS (those are smaller string ensembles, but does it make a noticeable difference?

Is it just the library addict in me that's tempted by a seemingly good deal and succumbing to the sunk cost fallacy of already owning the gold version of this library, or is there a good argument to be made for the upgrade? :-D


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## El Buhdai (Feb 12, 2020)

What's your take on Hollywood Strings vs CSS? I'm looking to finish buying my orchestra and cancel ComposerCloud and I'm currently looking for a strings library to replace Hollywood Strings. If I can't find one that interests me, I'll buy HS. I enjoy writing with HS and like the sound, but the hardware requirements are insane compared to most Kontakt libraries. I'm considering CSS but I have a few concerns.


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## I like music (Feb 12, 2020)

El Buhdai said:


> What's your take on Hollywood Strings vs CSS? I'm looking to finish buying my orchestra and cancel ComposerCloud and I'm currently looking for a strings library to replace Hollywood Strings. If I can't find one that interests me, I'll buy HS. I enjoy writing with HS and like the sound, but the hardware requirements are insane compared to most Kontakt libraries. I'm considering CSS but I have a few concerns.



I have HWS Gold, and CSS. I actually can't tell which one I like more from a sound perspective. Possibly prefer HWS. They cut through a mix nicely and I believe have a lovely tone.

CSS is fantastic too, but I do find it a bit too ambient (again, this is possibly because I don't have enough RAM to really work those mic positions). The vibrato is really prominent. The only issue here is that a 0 vibrato something in the timbre changes drastically and its a sound I don't like. Otherwise best to go with full vibrato, which is nice and heavy (which may not work for you all the time).

Hard one ...

Resource-wise, I feel CSS is completely manageable and fine ...


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## I like music (Feb 12, 2020)

dadadave said:


> There's currently a sale on upgrades at East West. I own Hollywood Strings gold and now I wonder if the update to the diamond edition is worth it for me (it's "only" 98$ atm).
> 
> On one hand:
> 
> ...



If I were to summarise what I've hear on the forum, most people would say that diamond is an excellent upgrade (I'm not taking into account questions of resource here) just that the close micing really adds something to an already excellent library. I like to think that the general mood here is that yes, it is a good move to make (again, not taking into account the size of the library!)

I wish I had the RAM and HD space to justify the upgrade, because I'd buy it!


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## José Herring (Feb 12, 2020)

I contemplate the same thing. I own and use a lot HS Gold and recently revitalized CS2 into my template. I have a smattering of other strings that I use for special purposes like LASS Sordinos, Performance samples, and a thousand older libraries. Each one fills a need for a specific purpose. 

In the end, HS Diamond is still one of the most resource demanding libraries when used in full and I haven't yet found the sound to be remarkably better than Gold especially when you start caking on reverb and combining it with other libraries and other instrumentation.

So for those reasons I've decided to invest in other libraries and still keep using HSGold. I think the only mic position I'd be interested in using in Diamond would be the main mics. Not into surround or close mics for strings. So to me the upgrade would be to just invest in Afflatus or other libraries from smaller developers, even soaring strings. 

So I lean now towards investing in niche libraries and using HS Gold as a good all rounder with some really good articulations that have yet to be better.


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## JohnG (Feb 12, 2020)

I think it depends on what you're trying to do with it. I love having extra mic positions in all my libraries. In that regard, HZ strings from Spitfire, with its large selection of mics, is awesome, and I'm just taking the SINE player for a test drive later; you may know it also has many mic positions.

So, in my case, the extra mics are very important. I don't use the mid mic set that much which, unless I'm mistaken, is the mic in HS Gold.

Computers have come a long way in the 10 years since HS came out. At first, it was pretty rough with multiple mics on the 'powerful' patches. But things are different now. New computers are far more powerful and, besides, even the 'light' HS patches sound good to me.

CSS has a wonderful musicality and plays quite well 'out of the box,' especially if you love legato patches. I'm a lot less keen on legato than most people seem to be, so for me the sustain sound is most important, and there I think HS offers a good deal more flexibility, especially regarding vibrato.

In the end, I always recommend using one's ears and deciding that way. Have fun!


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## Batrawi (Feb 12, 2020)

I like music said:


> CSS is fantastic too, but I do find it a bit too ambient (again, this is possibly because I don't have enough RAM to really work those mic positions). The vibrato is really prominent. The only issue here is that a 0 vibrato something in the timbre changes drastically and its a sound I don't like. Otherwise best to go with full vibrato, which is nice and heavy (which may not work for you all the time).


This exactly! I already own CSS, and don't like these specific characteristics in it, which makes me think of getting HWS if it offers lighter vibrato, less ambience etc...So here is where you need to focus while making your decision. If you already like CSS for what it is, then I think you really have no good reason to buy HWS and waist your precious SSD space


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## shapeshifter00 (Feb 13, 2020)

I have HWS and HWB Gold and the upgrade to Hollywood Orchestra Gold is cheaper then buying both upgrades separately. Is it possible to buy the Hollywood Orchestra update when not owning Percussions and Winds? It will also give me the possibility in the future to grab perc and winds gold and upgrade to diamond later on.


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## Zero&One (Feb 13, 2020)

dadadave said:


> Is it just the library addict in me that's tempted by a seemingly good deal and succumbing to the sunk cost fallacy of already owning the gold version of this library, or is there a good argument to be made for the upgrade? :-D



I will let you know my thoughts when it has downloaded. Current ETA August 2028.

For me the extra mic positions are welcome, and the other things like bow and divisi make this an easy choice. And I didn't want to wait another year for their ultra rare upgrade sales :|


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## I like music (Feb 13, 2020)

Has anyone tried loading up the sustain patches, and not using the sampled legato, but instead the simulated one? Spaces an absolute TON of space, and I don't think it sounds bad at all? Perhaps you can mock everything up that way and then when you're happy with the mix and composition, you could just substitute the real legato in there? I'm kind of surprised at how unoffensive that simulated legato is. It means that in HWS Gold, I can load up the violins (multiple instances for Divisi, say) on the longs (with simulated legato) and it only costs me 600mb in RAM ...

Am I missing something here or is this something others do as well?


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## erikradbo (Feb 13, 2020)

$158 for HO gold to diamond is pretty good value for money. Does anyone know how long this valentines deal is valid?


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## Morning Coffee (Feb 13, 2020)

Do any other websites that sell EastWest products, sell the actual upgrade from HWS Gold to Diamond?

From a completely economical point of view, I can't ever remember seeing this upgrade price at $92, or 50% off, that's rare for upgrades. Also, there seems to be a download option for HWS Diamond. This must be a new thing as I only ever remember it needing a hard drive to go along with the purchase.


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## Zero&One (Feb 13, 2020)

It’s been over a year I’ve waited for the upgrade. And yes, the download option is new. All good


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## Johnny (Feb 13, 2020)

I dunno my man, I have many string libraries, maybe too many some might say... But anyhow, often times HW Strings Diamond is still the right library for most all of my music! I don't really know why? Like John said, let your ears decided, there are many great contenders! I think cause Shawn Murphy was involved in HW Strings, it just always sounds great! I use 8Dio Century Strings a lot, but then most times I layer with HW Strings because I need the room and tone- it just works! I love the divisi mics myself, those spots sound nice and dry, gritty, raw and gorgeous when layered with any contender library! There is no right choice, "do or do not, there is no try!" Best of luck : )


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## husker (Feb 13, 2020)

erikradbo said:


> $158 for HO gold to diamond is pretty good value for money. Does anyone know how long this valentines deal is valid?


Feb 21


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## ProfoundSilence (Feb 13, 2020)

well I put my money where my mouth is, and bought it when I could download it. It's looking like 10+ hrs to download(strings diamond)


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## cqd (Feb 13, 2020)

Yeah, I'm probably gonna upgrade to diamond too for the craic..Probably have to get another ssd for it too, but shur..


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## Royosho (Feb 13, 2020)

Even though withholding the close mics to force you to upgrade to diamond is exactly what those sneaky EW devs want... close mic strings are alot nicer to work with imho. brass not necessarily.


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## JohnBMears (Feb 13, 2020)

HWS Gold comes with Mid Mics. The manual states this is a "Mid-Tree" from the conductor's perspective. The "Main" mics are described as a Decca Tree, but it is stated that stereo outriggers are also in that mic option. I don't really know what a Mid-Tree is versus a Decca Tree (which we all know what is). The lack of outriggers in HWS Gold definitely makes the instruments sound more isolated from their seating position, whereas the Main mics sound more spread in the field. i agree the divisi mics sound unique but I never fully understood the best way to use them. You have to load half the section (Violins 1A, Violins 1B) and since you'd obviously want them to play different notes for a true 'divisi effect' they'd need to be on different channels/tracks and couldn't share a play instance, at least not in using multiple articulations for each sub-section of each divisi. Plus you cannot load other mics in the same interface when using divisi mics. My machine works fine with play and HWS Diamond nowadays, but it's a real shame so much good content is trapped in a player that just lacks flexibility. 

CSS is really one of the best libraries ever made and I like almost everything about it more than HWS, but the tone of HWS still is my favorite. I blend the two libraries often.


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## Zero&One (Feb 14, 2020)

For mics, this might help some people decide (from the manual)


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> For mics, this might help some people decide (from the manual)



Thank you for this. For Gold, we're listening to the T (Decca) Mics, right?


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## Zero&One (Feb 14, 2020)

I like music said:


> Thank you for this. For Gold, we're listening to the T (Decca) Mics, right?



Yes, their official text on the Mid is: 
"The M is the location of the Mid mics, which are a smaller version of a Decca tree, positioned a little closer to the instruments so that more definition is captured without creating a “close” sound."


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## ProfoundSilence (Feb 14, 2020)

uggg my pc crashed because I was doing something stupid and I have to start over downloading because it thinks the drive doesn't have enough space LOL

im going to try to salvage this by cleaning some junk off my HDD so that there is ample space


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## Zero&One (Feb 14, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> uggg my pc crashed because I was doing something stupid and I have to start over downloading because it thinks the drive doesn't have enough space LOL
> 
> im going to try to salvage this by cleaning some junk off my HDD so that there is ample space



Nightmare mate, I'm on day 2 of downloading. I also spent hours removing/moving junk to host this.
Hope you get sorted ok


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## ProfoundSilence (Feb 14, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> Nightmare mate, I'm on day 2 of downloading. I also spent hours removing/moving junk to host this.
> Hope you get sorted ok


its pretty weird

I copied the first 56 DL zips to the new location, and selected it.. and then it started at 56, but said 1% then it downloaded 57 and said 3%. 

fingers crossed it just randomly decides "ohh, I guess im done" at like 40% lol

I've got plenty of stuff to get done, so it's no issue really, but when my daw crashes I can't do anything without restarting (which was my issue). I had to restart in the middle of the download process and assumed it would just be able to resume.


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## Zero&One (Feb 14, 2020)

That does sound like it should work, my strings did go through a looong status process of "unzipping". So hopefully it'll realise the previous 56 are there.


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

I have spent my 2020 budget. But ... this is cheap. And these strings are fantastic. What do I do?


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## ProfoundSilence (Feb 14, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> That does sound like it should work, my strings did go through a looong status process of "unzipping". So hopefully it'll realise the previous 56 are there.


This is still a walk in the park, considering there are those of us who remember the old way(there was no downloading at all). 

I think it was like 9 dual layer dvds you had to install one by one, after you waited 2 weeks for the 700$ symphonic choirs you bought to actually arrive. 

CCC2 was nice because it atleast shipped on a hard drive in the first place. At the time I had 8 gb of ram so I would have never been able to use diamond anything, not to mention the price tag was 999$ iirc?

spent something like 2700$ on CCC2 back in the day - which despite it's name was not *actually* a complete collection, more or less just let you keep adding libraries for a discounted price. No you actually get the COMPLETE collection for 29$// month hahaha



I like music said:


> I have spent my 2020 budget. But ... this is cheap. And these strings are fantastic. What do I do?



it HAS been cheaper, IIRC - i think BF it's down to like 159$ or something? maybe it was labor day? I can't remember. If you own HWS gold it's definately worth considering the upgrade price though, I just didn't own it(at that time I spent 999$ on LASS instead haha)


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> This is still a walk in the park, considering there are those of us who remember the old way(there was no downloading at all).
> 
> I think it was like 9 dual layer dvds you had to install one by one, after you waited 2 weeks for the 700$ symphonic choirs you bought to actually arrive.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I have HW Gold, so am definitely considering it. My worry is that buying this will mean that I'll need to buy another SSD as I don't have that much space left. WOW, how big are these bloody samples?!


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## ProfoundSilence (Feb 14, 2020)

I like music said:


> Yeah, I have HW Gold, so am definitely considering it. My worry is that buying this will mean that I'll need to buy another SSD as I don't have that much space left. WOW, how big are these bloody samples?!


well it takes something like 300+ gb for HWS diamond, so you need somewhere with ~700 gb free to download + install I guess, then you can move the 300gb+ library wherever you want. 

You could temporarily backup some stuff to another drive for now. I've been sliding my SF stuff slowly but surely to one of my general drives, and half tempted to slap my SF collection on my 7200 rpm drive because I'm savage


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> well it takes something like 300+ gb for HWS diamond, so you need somewhere with ~700 gb free to download + install I guess, then you can move the 300gb+ library wherever you want.
> 
> You could temporarily backup some stuff to another drive for now. I've been sliding my SF stuff slowly but surely to one of my general drives, and half tempted to slap my SF collection on my 7200 rpm drive because I'm savage



Yeah, I need to sit down with pen and paper and plan this out. Lets see how it goes!


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## ProfoundSilence (Feb 14, 2020)

I like music said:


> Yeah, I need to sit down with pen and paper and plan this out. Lets see how it goes!


well I just deleted all my pictures from highschool and half of my old projects on accident in the process. 

:/ I think I have them still on another external(or literally the physical hard drive somewhere in storage)


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> well I just deleted all my pictures from highschool and half of my old projects on accident in the process.
> 
> :/ I think I have them still on another external(or literally the physical hard drive somewhere in storage)


Who needs memories and old projects when you have close-mic glory awaiting you?


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## Zero&One (Feb 14, 2020)

The download option is a great step forward, the drive was always a sticking point for me.
Although I do remember waiting for a game bug fix on a floppy disk via post... that didn't work. So this is a breeze. How times change!



I like music said:


> Yeah, I need to sit down with pen and paper and plan this out. Lets see how it goes!


You can always install the brass etc later when you expand your storage. When SSD's are on sale.
Like @ProfoundSilence has done, I have moved many others to HDD in the interim.


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> The download option is a great step forward, the drive was always a sticking point for me.
> Although I do remember waiting for a game bug fix on a floppy disk via post... that didn't work. So this is a breeze. How times change!
> 
> 
> ...



Indeed! I'm only interested in the Strings so thankfully that'll be a small help when it comes to the downloads ...


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## AndyP (Feb 14, 2020)

I am glad that I have my VEP Slaves on which the mega big libraries are hosted.
I'm still dreaming of an EWHO 2020 that has a maximum size of 150 GB, a completely new user interface and scripting (maybe they can hire Jasper), and best of all everything on just one machine!
If only the new MacPro wasn't so expensive.


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

AndyP said:


> I am glad that I have my VEP Slaves on which the mega big libraries are hosted.
> I'm still dreaming of an EWHO 2020 that has a maximum size of 150 GB, a completely new user interface and scripting (maybe they can hire Jasper), and best of all everything on just one machine!
> If only the new MacPro wasn't so expensive.



Goddamn. If they reworked EWHO, it'd be amazing. I bet there would be a lot of veterans here who would be quite interested.


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## ProfoundSilence (Feb 14, 2020)

honestly IIRC my biggest issue with the EWQL stuff was the rather inconsistent bindings for stuff. 

dynamics on cc1 on some patches, cc11 on others. That said, I never owned HWS - and when I briefly tried gold I didn't like the default mic.


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## Cat (Feb 14, 2020)

I have both the Diamond and the Gold and for Strings I think Gold is perfect. I ended up removing Diamond from my template and replaced it with Gold. The Mid mics sound for Strings is great. The 16 bit (Gold) vs 24 bit (Diamond) means a smaller RAM footprint. Just add some Spaces II reverb it sounds stellar.


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

I have HW stuff with an e-licenser, but not a physical licenser. Would I somehow be able to transfer my EW stuff onto the same dongle as I use for Cubase, or is that a whole different tech?


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## ProfoundSilence (Feb 14, 2020)

Cat said:


> I have both the Diamond and the Gold and for Strings I think Gold is perfect. I ended up removing Diamond from my template and replaced it with Gold. The Mid mics for Strings is great. The 16 bit (Gold) vs 24 bit (Diamond) means a smaller RAM footprint. Just add some Spaces II reverb it sounds stellar.


to be fair, some people use tree mics only for everything - and are perfectly happy with it. I personally can't stand that sound, especially when half of the time people drench it in reverb to get everything to even feel spatially in the correct spot. 

I'm sure people who work on games/similar projects want the more washed out ambiguous tone, rather the the modern punch and clarity of productions from this decade due to section + close micing/striping/ect. When the audio isn't the ONLY thing you're suppose to be listening to - it might even border on distracting.


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## Cat (Feb 14, 2020)

yes, that is why I love the MID microphones (included in the Gold and that are different from the Main = Tree microphones). They have a more defined sound and not as close sounding as, well, the Close mics.
And as for the more washed out ambiguous tone (games, etc) - you cannot really get it only with Diamond's extra mics. You still need a lot of reverb added. 



ProfoundSilence said:


> to be fair, some people use tree mics only for everything - and are perfectly happy with it. I personally can't stand that sound, especially when half of the time people drench it in reverb to get everything to even feel spatially in the correct spot.
> 
> I'm sure people who work on games/similar projects want the more washed out ambiguous tone, rather the the modern punch and clarity of productions from this decade due to section + close micing/striping/ect. When the audio isn't the ONLY thing you're suppose to be listening to - it might even border on distracting.


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## AndyP (Feb 14, 2020)

I like music said:


> I have HW stuff with an e-licenser, but not a physical licenser. Would I somehow be able to transfer my EW stuff onto the same dongle as I use for Cubase, or is that a whole different tech?


Sifferent suppliers. VSL works with Cubase e-licensing, EW only with i-Lok. Would be too easy otherwise.


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

I hear what you're saying @ProfoundSilence. I have tended to drench things in reverb simply because I have been using the standard mix mics from various libraries (mainly due to RAM limitations on the laptop I have). Would be nice to have tons of RAM so I could place stuff using mics.

However, I feel that with the HWS Gold, there's a good deal more clarity to the sound than a lot of other comparable (or at least I _think, _comparable_)_ mix mics from other libraries.


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

AndyP said:


> Sifferent suppliers. VSL works with Cubase e-licensing, EW only with i-Lok. Would be too easy otherwise.


Damn. Don't want more dongles in my laptop. Risk with my current setup is that if the HDD goes, then I think I lose my licenses (according to EW policy) ... I think.


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## Jaap (Feb 14, 2020)

I like music said:


> Damn. Don't want more dongles in my laptop. Risk with my current setup is that if the HDD goes, then I think I lose my licenses (according to EW policy) ... I think.



You can have nowadays as well a computer stored license, so you don't need a physical I-lok anymore.


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## AndyP (Feb 14, 2020)

I like music said:


> Damn. Don't want more dongles in my laptop. Risk with my current setup is that if the HDD goes, then I think I lose my licenses (according to EW policy) ... I think.


I'm not sure right now as I only use the dongles, but I think you can register at least some libraries using the i-lok on your hard disk.
I am not sure about EW, you would have to look at soundsonline q&a.


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## wcreed51 (Feb 14, 2020)

Cubase uses e-licenser. EW uses iLok.


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## dadadave (Feb 14, 2020)

Let's say I only intend to use, e.g., close mics and mid mic samples; would it be possible to keep all the unnecessary samples on an external drive? Has anyone tried that, does the folder structure make that possible? or would it lead to error messages in Play even if you don't load the unused mic positions?


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## ProfoundSilence (Feb 14, 2020)

dadadave said:


> Let's say I only intend to use, e.g., close mics and mid mic samples; would it be possible to keep all the unnecessary samples on an external drive? Has anyone tried that, does the folder structure make that possible? or would it lead to error messages in Play even if you don't load the unused mic positions?




my installation is messed up. let's me load articulations I dont have the samples for, but so far I've not experienced missing mics.


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## kitekrazy (Feb 14, 2020)

I like music said:


> Damn. Don't want more dongles in my laptop. Risk with my current setup is that if the HDD goes, then I think I lose my licenses (according to EW policy) ... I think.



You can store your license on the drive. No dongle needed.


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

kitekrazy said:


> You can store your license on the drive. No dongle needed.


Ah yes! Sorry, what I meant was that if my laptop jacks up then there would be no way for me to deactivate the licenses from my machine. Means I may lose my licenses permanently, so I wondered if I should bite the bullet and put them on a dongle...


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## kitekrazy (Feb 14, 2020)

I like music said:


> Ah yes! Sorry, what I meant was that if my laptop jacks up then there would be no way for me to deactivate the licenses from my machine. Means I may lose my licenses permanently, so I wondered if I should bite the bullet and put them on a dongle...



iLok I do believe is more forgiving in this area unlike VSL.


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## Mike Fox (Feb 14, 2020)

I was playing with HS last night, and A/B'd them with some more recent string libraries (Afflatus, SSS, CSS, etc.), and the conclusion I came to was that HS still easily holds its own. They did something right with that library.

I only have the Gold version too, and I bet the extra mics are totally worth it!


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## EwigWanderer (Feb 14, 2020)

I went ahead and upgraded from gold to diamond. Strings and brass. Also bought percussions. Main reason was the ability to download.


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## ProfoundSilence (Feb 14, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> I was playing with HS last night, and A/B'd them with some more recent string libraries (Afflatus, SSS, CSS, etc.), and the conclusion I came to was that HS still easily holds its own. They did something right with that library.
> 
> I only have the Gold version too, and I bet the extra mics are totally worth it!




I'm getting around some of the clunkiness of the controls by literally running kontakt with flexrouter/cinemap to make my own keyswitching/CC redirecting. I tried using a velocity > cc 11 for short notes to get more dynamic range but it didn't sound good.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Feb 14, 2020)

Do we think EastWest will ever update these libraries to make it easier to use and update the patch structure?


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> I was playing with HS last night, and A/B'd them with some more recent string libraries (Afflatus, SSS, CSS, etc.), and the conclusion I came to was that HS still easily holds its own. They did something right with that library.
> 
> I only have the Gold version too, and I bet the extra mics are totally worth it!



I find that they have the clearest sound (not sure if that's a good description). Some kind of a zing that let's them cut through the mix. I did a couple of tests and you really could tell the different lines apart, with very little to no mud.


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## Mike Fox (Feb 14, 2020)

I like music said:


> I find that they have the clearest sound (not sure if that's a good description). Some kind of a zing that let's them cut through the mix. I did a couple of tests and you really could tell the different lines apart, with very little to no mud.


Yep, exactly. Makes them easy to blend with darker, or thicker strings like CSS.


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## AndyP (Feb 14, 2020)

I know I won't necessarily get full agreement with my opinion today, but I prefer the HO package over BBCSO. HO is not perfect, no libraries are, but I love the sound and it is, no matter what has been added over the years, my absolute favourite. Of course I also use other libraries, and I don't use HO everywhere, but if it has to be a rich orchestra ... And it can be combined so wonderfully with other libraries, wonderful. For the woodwinds, I prefer VSL or BBCSO or BHCT (if there's one thing I like about my SA libriaries, it's the woodwinds).
Maybe I am old-fashioned in terms of my taste.


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## CT (Feb 14, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Do we think EastWest will ever update these libraries to make it easier to use and update the patch structure?



It would be nice. I've had a lot of interest in these simmering in the background over the years, and that kind of overhaul is precisely the push I'd need to actually get them. As it is, I'm spoiled by how painless BBCSO is....


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## novaburst (Feb 14, 2020)

I must say that there may be something special about HWS Diamond, have you not noticed that these strings are dated but they are still putting some good string libraries to shame in 2020.

Diamonds are formed by very high temperatures and carbon pressure deep in the earth they are very precious stones that it is said of them they last for ever, could it be the developers wanted this string library to go on to compete with the string libraries of today and still be a great contender. 

East West have developed new choir library's, new brass library's, new effects, new sample player, all with in the last five years but not a new string library.

The question is do they really need to..


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## cqd (Feb 14, 2020)

AndyP said:


> I know I won't necessarily get full agreement with my opinion today, but I prefer the HO package over BBCSO. HO is not perfect, no libraries are, but I love the sound and it is, no matter what has been added over the years, my absolute favourite. Of course I also use other libraries, and I don't use HO everywhere, but if it has to be a rich orchestra ... And it can be combined so wonderfully with other libraries, wonderful. For the woodwinds, I prefer VSL or BBCSO or BHCT (if there's one thing I like about my SA libriaries, it's the woodwinds).
> Maybe I am old-fashioned in terms of my taste.



What?.. something-something-cohesive..


----------



## Robert_G (Feb 14, 2020)

For those with vibrato issues in CSS, set the cc to about 30....its perfect and doesnt hurt the legato at all.


----------



## Gerbil (Feb 14, 2020)

shapeshifter00 said:


> I have HWS and HWB Gold and the upgrade to Hollywood Orchestra Gold is cheaper then buying both upgrades separately. Is it possible to buy the Hollywood Orchestra update when not owning Percussions and Winds? It will also give me the possibility in the future to grab perc and winds gold and upgrade to diamond later on.


No, unfortunately. I have all of them except the percussion, which I'm not interested in but need to add it to qualify. So I've decided to pass.


----------



## John R Wilson (Feb 14, 2020)

AndyP said:


> I know I won't necessarily get full agreement with my opinion today, but I prefer the HO package over BBCSO. HO is not perfect, no libraries are, but I love the sound and it is, no matter what has been added over the years, my absolute favourite. Of course I also use other libraries, and I don't use HO everywhere, but if it has to be a rich orchestra ... And it can be combined so wonderfully with other libraries, wonderful. For the woodwinds, I prefer VSL or BBCSO or BHCT (if there's one thing I like about my SA libriaries, it's the woodwinds).
> Maybe I am old-fashioned in terms of my taste.



I have to agree and it is a lot cheaper than the BBCSO, deeply sampled and I love the sound of it. They got many thing right with the HO. I do however really like the woodwinds on the BBCSO, a mixture of the EWHO and the BBCSO for its woodwinds and percussion is my current workflow.


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> For those with vibrato issues in CSS, set the cc to about 30....its perfect and doesnt hurt the legato at all.


hmmmm interesting. you pick up something new here every day. looking to be pleasantly surprised. Will check it out later!


----------



## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

novaburst said:


> I must say that there may be something special about HWS Diamond, have you not noticed that these strings are dated but they are still putting some good string libraries to shame in 2020.
> 
> Diamonds are formed by very high temperatures and carbon pressure deep in the earth they are very precious stones that it is said of them they last for ever, could it be the developers wanted this string library to go on to compete with the string libraries of today and still be a great contender.
> 
> ...



I don't suppose they do actually. It would however be fantastic if they tweaked a few things (maybe the patch structure) or made the whole thing Kontakt 

But you're right. I doubt they'd be guaranteed to put out a library that _sounds_ this good.

Maybe 16bit samples on Diamond. That would be lovely.

btw I remember someone saying that Play now had a purge function. I just remembered this morning. Is that true?


----------



## cqd (Feb 14, 2020)

Is there not an update on the way at some stage?..I thought I saw that somewhere a while ago..


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## I like music (Feb 14, 2020)

cqd said:


> Is there not an update on the way at some stage?..I thought I saw that somewhere a while ago..



Are you thinking of the forum member who was doing to create a new HS template (where he rebalanced the sounds and levels etc?)


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## erikradbo (Feb 15, 2020)

I like music said:


> Are you thinking of the forum member who was doing to create a new HS template (where he rebalanced the sounds and levels etc?)



Yes but that faded away it seems. But it was also someone seemingly facilitated with EW who said he/they were planning a restructuring of the library to make it more accessible and that I had been “long overdue”.


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## VMH (Feb 15, 2020)

erikradbo said:


> Yes but that faded away it seems. But it was also someone seemingly facilitated with EW who said he/they were planning a restructuring of the library to make it more accessible and that I had been “long overdue”.







__





Best cinematic strings libraries ( spitfire , cinematic studio strings, cinematic strings 2 )


Hi, I'm french, 34 yo, piano teacher, I am a beginner in computer music. I'm looking for the best strings libraries and also the easiest to use. It would be to make rather epic / cinematic orchestral music( two steps from hells, video games music...) Having subscribed to eastwest's...




vi-control.net




In this post @Quantum Leap says they're going to 'clean it up' (referring to HOW)


----------



## I like music (Feb 15, 2020)

VMH said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow! Curious to see what 'clean up' means and when it happens!


----------



## Wolf68 (Feb 15, 2020)

hollywood strings gold is still a fantastic tool, you can do anything with it. once I updated to diamond and realized, that this is mainly about better mic sounds (although there are also some positions I don't need and deleted from my hd). unforunately the gold mic position is the weakest one, me thinks. but you can compensate that to a certain degree with eq settings / channel settings + subtle reverb.
just my personal taste and opinion!
here an example from the gold version from me done in 2010:








First-Hollywood.mp3 | Powered by Box







app.box.com


----------



## muk (Feb 15, 2020)

I like music said:


> Wow! Curious to see what 'clean up' means and when it happens!



Could be a long time still, if it happens at all. Eastwest has a somewhat sketchy record at fulfilling their announcements. Remember Play Pro anyone? But I agree that a restructuring of the patches would be very welcome.


----------



## Mike Fox (Feb 15, 2020)

I remember when HS first came out, and how "game-changing" it actually was. 

It was a time in sample history where a library actually lived up the amount of hype it received. 

I also remember all of the problems that came with it, and how resource hungry it was. That was back when most composers didn't have a single SSD on their machine, and PLAY wasn't nearly as stable as it is today.

But HS was so good that people were willing to live with those issues in order to use what really was the best string library at the time. It really was groundbreaking.


----------



## Johnny (Feb 15, 2020)

JohnBMears said:


> HWS Gold comes with Mid Mics. The manual states this is a "Mid-Tree" from the conductor's perspective. The "Main" mics are described as a Decca Tree, but it is stated that stereo outriggers are also in that mic option. I don't really know what a Mid-Tree is versus a Decca Tree (which we all know what is). The lack of outriggers in HWS Gold definitely makes the instruments sound more isolated from their seating position, whereas the Main mics sound more spread in the field. i agree the divisi mics sound unique but I never fully understood the best way to use them. You have to load half the section (Violins 1A, Violins 1B) and since you'd obviously want them to play different notes for a true 'divisi effect' they'd need to be on different channels/tracks and couldn't share a play instance, at least not in using multiple articulations for each sub-section of each divisi. Plus you cannot load other mics in the same interface when using divisi mics. My machine works fine with play and HWS Diamond nowadays, but it's a real shame so much good content is trapped in a player that just lacks flexibility.
> 
> CSS is really one of the best libraries ever made and I like almost everything about it more than HWS, but the tone of HWS still is my favorite. I blend the two libraries often.


Yeah man! I never use processing on HW Strings or brass ever. These libraries just sound right all of the time! Lows, Mids, Highs, they are always nice and balanced (to me anyways, it's all subjective to taste.) I prefer the main mics for balanced HW tone; most of the time I'll throw in one of their spot mics within the divi sections when I want that close up grit within the mix of a particular passage. But yes the mid mics, are traditionally the conductor perspective in often times using an A - B stereo microphone array set up for the live orchestra recording. The reason why I prefer decca, is often times the perspective feels fuller and wider in decca to me, this is because in decca you can really push the stereo field/stereo imaging that little bit more without losing the center image. That little extra push can be achieved due to the addition of placing center mics on your stereo bar/tree- or whatever the engineer decides to use to suspend his microphones above the orchestra. Usually engineers use more than three mics in the Decca for taste and color, but I've had pretty awesome results recording orchestra with just three in a decca tree. Sometimes the middle microphone can be placed a little bit closer to the orchestra as well in the center of the decca, this is common to add that little extra sparkling of clarity : ) Anyhow, long answer short, Shawn Murphy killed it on the main mics in Hollywood, they sound fantastic!


----------



## I like music (Feb 15, 2020)

Johnny said:


> Yeah man! I never use processing on HW Strings or brass ever. These libraries just sound right all of the time! Lows, Mids, Highs, they are always nice and balanced (to me anyways, it's all subjective to taste.) I prefer the main mics for balanced HW tone; most of the time I'll throw in one of their spot mics within the divi sections when I want that close up grit within the mix of a particular passage. But yes the mid mics, are traditionally the conductor perspective in often times using an A - B stereo microphone array set up for the live orchestra recording. The reason why I prefer decca, is often times the perspective feels fuller and wider in decca to me, this is because in decca you can really push the stereo field/stereo imaging that little bit more without losing the center image. That little extra push can be achieved due to the addition of placing center mics on your stereo bar/tree- or whatever the engineer decides to use to suspend his microphones above the orchestra. Usually engineers use more than three mics in the Decca for taste and color, but I've had pretty awesome results recording orchestra with just three in a decca tree. Sometimes the middle microphone can be placed a little bit closer to the orchestra as well in the center of the decca, this is common to add that little extra sparkling of clarity : ) Anyhow, long answer short, Shawn Murphy killed it on the main mics in Hollywood, they sound fantastic!



Thanks for the information. Really interesting. Just to be clear, when you refer to the main mics (which you like and have praised) you mean the ones that come with Gold, right?

Beautiful sound I feel.


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## JohnBMears (Feb 15, 2020)

I like music said:


> Thanks for the information. Really interesting. Just to be clear, when you refer to the main mics (which you like and have praised) you mean the ones that come with Gold, right?
> 
> Beautiful sound I feel.



it does get confusing because you’d expect if a library came with only one position (like HWS Gold) it would be called “MAIN”.
But HWS Gold comes with “MID”. 

So when someone who knows HWS Diamond well tells me they use MAIN, I’m taking that to mean the Decca plus Stereo Outriggers. It is the 3rd left to right..... In PLAY they are listed:
CLOSE
MID
MAIN
SURROUND/with a switch to Vintage


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Feb 15, 2020)

Does anybody have success streaming the samples off an SSD but via a USB 2 port? I stream BBCSO like that and seems to work fine.


----------



## Johnny (Feb 16, 2020)

I like music said:


> Thanks for the information. Really interesting. Just to be clear, when you refer to the main mics (which you like and have praised) you mean the ones that come with Gold, right?
> 
> Beautiful sound I feel.


NP and yes, gold should have the mains


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## Zero&One (Feb 16, 2020)

To be clear, from EastWest official:

Hollywood Strings Gold Edition is 16-bit, with one mic positon (*mid-tree*, no divisi)

Main - Decca tree (Neumann M50s) and Brauner VM1 KHE (Klaus Heyne Edition) outriggers
*Mid* - Neumann KMi, Neumann KM 254, Sony C37A, Neumann U-47

So Diamond gives you the Decca (aka Main). The added Main mic with Diamond is nice


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## Zero&One (Feb 16, 2020)

File deleted as I used the default settings...


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## JohnG (Feb 16, 2020)

Johnny said:


> NP and yes, gold should have the mains



This is not correct. Gold has the mids


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## I like music (Feb 16, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> For anyone interested before I delete Gold it from my drive...
> 
> Very quick Cello demo using same patch. 1 mic on each. Just some basic notes
> Gold - Diamond - Gold - Diamond
> ...


Thanks for this. I realise there aren't very many such comparisons at all.


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## novaburst (Feb 16, 2020)

JohnG said:


> In the end, I always recommend using one's ears and deciding that way. Have fun!



And I think you need to be a little stubborn with this so often we listen to what others think about a library instead of what we hear
And can send a lot of confusing signals, so we can end up forgetting how good our older library's sound and leave them on the shelf 

I think when a new library comes out we tend to automatically feel we should start using it above our existing ones when actually our existing older library's have the same or better quality in sound, tone and in many ways much more usability. 

A different sound or newer sound is not always the better sound.


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## erikradbo (Feb 17, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> For anyone interested before I delete Gold it from my drive...
> 
> Very quick Cello demo using same patch. 1 mic on each. Just some basic notes
> Gold - Diamond - Gold - Diamond
> ...



Huge difference. Is that gold (mid) mics vs diamond main? Hard to say if that fuller diamond sound always is preferable but soloed Like this it’s a winner.


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## Zero&One (Feb 17, 2020)

erikradbo said:


> Huge difference. Is that gold (mid) mics vs diamond main?



That's correct. The mic was worth the price imo, the other 2 are great. Really happy with it.


----------



## I like music (Feb 17, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> That's correct. The mic was worth the price imo, the other 2 are great. Really happy with it.



Roughly speaking, in RAM terms do you know how much bigger that Diamond Main mic is (in Ram terms) compared to the mic in Gold?


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## Zero&One (Feb 17, 2020)

I like music said:


> Roughly speaking, in RAM terms do you know how much bigger that Diamond Main mic is (in Ram terms) compared to the mic in Gold?



I don't sorry, I can check tonight but I'm away at the moment. Don't think it's huge individually, but I expect once you start loading up a template it can get big.


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## I like music (Feb 17, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> I don't sorry, I can check tonight but I'm away at the moment. Don't think it's huge individually, but I expect once you start loading up a template it can get big.



Hah, don't go out of your way to check but if you do, hugely appreciated! I'm only planning on using the longs (perhaps just the legato patches) which is why I was wondering. So hopefully it isn't a massive difference.


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## Zero&One (Feb 17, 2020)

I like music said:


> Hah, don't go out of your way to check but if you do, hugely appreciated! I'm only planning on using the longs (perhaps just the legato patches) which is why I was wondering. So hopefully it isn't a massive difference.



Here ya go, gold then diamond

1st Violins 1 NV NV NV VB RR Ni 43MB
1st Violins 1 NV NV NV VB RR Ni 60MB

1st Violins Leg Port LT 6 Ni 310MB
1st Violins Leg Port LT 6 Ni 382MB

Celli Leg Port LT 6 Ni 283MB
Celli Leg Port LT 6 Ni 348MB


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## Dex (Feb 17, 2020)

erikradbo said:


> Huge difference. Is that gold (mid) mics vs diamond main? Hard to say if that fuller diamond sound always is preferable but soloed Like this it’s a winner.



Well the Diamond sound is way louder than the Gold one in the file. Gotta volume normalize them to understand what's really going on.


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## Zero&One (Feb 17, 2020)

Dex said:


> Well the Diamond sound is way louder than the Gold one in the file. Gotta volume normalize them to understand what's really going on.



It is yes. But I left them at the default levels for fairness. Either way the mic is a big improvement imo


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## Dex (Feb 17, 2020)

That's not really fair because that's not representative of how they'd sound in a mix. Gonna normalize on my end and have a listen now to decide for myself.


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## Zero&One (Feb 17, 2020)

Dex said:


> That's not really fair because that's not representative of how they'd sound in a mix. Gonna normalize on my end and have a listen now to decide for myself.



So to make it fair I should tweak the defaults? That’s really bizarre to say.
Either way that mic isn’t going to compete by its nature.


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## Dex (Feb 17, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> So to make it fair I should tweak the defaults?



I mean...yes?

Here's the same file but volume balanced. I did it in Reaper with an effect to set the gold and diamond takes to the same overall LUFS value. It still goes Gold Diamond Gold Diamond.

To me the main mic in diamond sounds ever so slightly more harmonically dense and farther away than the mid mic from gold, but they're really close.


----------



## cqd (Feb 18, 2020)

I upgraded the other day.. The ssd hasn't arrived yet, but I was just looking at the installation center, and there's no sign of downloads for the upgrade.. should I have got a serial sent or something?..I thought it would be automatic really..


----------



## PeterBaumann (Feb 18, 2020)

I upgraded yesterday and got the go-ahead this morning via email - mine's for download rather than SSD so not sure if there's a different process for that. Currently looking at about 12hrs of downloading left at 9MB/s


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## cqd (Feb 18, 2020)

Hi.. no, it's the download I ordered, so, I should expect another email rather than the thank you for your order one?..I might send them an email anyway.. thanks..


----------



## PeterBaumann (Feb 18, 2020)

Oh right, sorry I misunderstood! Mine was an upgrade from Gold to Diamond and I ordered about 24 hours ago and received a confirmation email saying the licences had been added 15hrs later (first thing this morning UK time). They did say in a previous email exchange I had with them about my eligibility that they're processed by the sales team, who then update the licences on your account, so it may be that they haven't quite reached yours yet. If it's been more than 2 days though I'd drop them a quick email to check your order hasn't been lost.


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## erikradbo (Feb 19, 2020)

Dex said:


> I mean...yes?
> 
> Here's the same file but volume balanced. I did it in Reaper with an effect to set the gold and diamond takes to the same overall LUFS value. It still goes Gold Diamond Gold Diamond.
> 
> To me the main mic in diamond sounds ever so slightly more harmonically dense and farther away than the mid mic from gold, but they're really close.


Still find diamond better here, although part of it might be them having a wider stereo image and not as clearly being placed to the right, which might be less desired in a mix.


----------



## TimCox (Feb 19, 2020)

Divisi was a huge reason I got HS Diamond awhile back. That said, I don't even use HS anymore these days. Maybe after I get my supercomputer


----------



## novaburst (Feb 19, 2020)

josejherring said:


> In the end, HS Diamond is still one of the most resource demanding libraries



There is a kind of a resource hack I think if anyone has HWS Gold and Diamonds I think you should be able to load two Plays one gold and one diamond version.

Use the mid mic in gold then use one or two mics of your preference in the diamond version midi learn the master volume.

I think this should cut down on resources since the gold version is 16bit and appears to be very light on resource.

I think using this hack with VEpro could benifit significantly..


----------



## Dex (Feb 19, 2020)

TimCox said:


> Divisi was a huge reason I got HS Diamond awhile back. That said, I don't even use HS anymore these days. Maybe after I get my supercomputer


Truly a library ahead of its time, huh?


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## TimCox (Feb 20, 2020)

Dex said:


> Truly a library ahead of its time, huh?


Definitely. LASS handled divisi pretty convincingly but it's not even in the same airspace as HS. I wish we could get a true, modern (keyswitchable maybe?) divisi from another developer.


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## JohnBMears (Feb 20, 2020)

A library with the tone of HWS, the scripting/legato of CSS and the true divisi sub-section style of LASS, recorded in a place semi-wet scoring stage like SONY (cinesamples) would be a real dream library IMO.


----------



## Soundlex (Feb 20, 2020)

JohnBMears said:


> A library with the tone of HWS, the scripting/legato of CSS and the true divisi sub-section style of LASS, recorded in a place semi-wet scoring stage like SONY (cinesamples) would be a real dream library IMO.


Well, I think you just put together the ultimate working composer string library...!
Can't think of a better one than what you described but I'd be happy with just CSS at Sony haha


----------



## cqd (Feb 21, 2020)

Maybe kind of off topic, but am I right in thinking the extra mics are a very welcome addition to EWHO Percussion diamond as well?


----------



## Zero&One (Feb 21, 2020)

cqd said:


> Maybe kind of off topic, but am I right in thinking the extra mics are a very welcome addition to EWHO Percussion diamond as well?



Good question, I've not really checked. I'm using percussion on something at the moment but I can't remember what other mics (if any) I used. I would imagine they are welcome on all sections?
The upgrade has made me really dig back into HO, using keyswitches and articulation sets has made it really fun. Certainly a no-brainer upgrade for me.


----------



## cqd (Feb 21, 2020)

Yeah, it's downloading here at the moment..the percussion was what I found the most lacking in the gold version..thought the extra mics would be an improvement..


----------



## EwigWanderer (Feb 21, 2020)

cqd said:


> Maybe kind of off topic, but am I right in thinking the extra mics are a very welcome addition to EWHO Percussion diamond as well?



I tried the gold version few years ago and now I have the diamond version. IMHO the different microphones are important to have with percussions. Not so much with strings for example. Close microphone brings so much definition and punch to the sound.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 21, 2020)

TimCox said:


> LASS handled divisi pretty convincingly but it's not even in the same airspace as HS.



I have both, and I must push back on that - whether you're just talking about the divisi or about the libraries in general.

LASS is certainly very flexible, since it's recorded in small groups + first chair. And its first chair speaks more quickly than the other sections, which makes it more playable. And you can control the portmento speed. And it has a detailed sound.

Hollywood Strings is a gorgeous, lush library with plenty of articulations.

You can also combine the LASS first chair with Hollywood Strings, which works very well a lot of the time.

Not directed specifically at Tim, there's something odd about using the past tense for libraries that are still totally relevant! I was just poking around my Samples folder from the PowerMac G3 I had 20 year ago - before streaming - and a lot of them are very pretty good (especially the drum ones, which are shorter)!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 21, 2020)

By the way, I personally do think the upgrade to the Hollywood Strings with all the mic positions is worth it.

While I don't load them all at first, it's very useful to have the choice - with all their libraries. EastWest's (and probably Nick Phoenix') big contribution to sampling technology is multiple mic positions. That's their thing.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Feb 21, 2020)

People mention the mics of Diamond a lot but doesn’t diamond also have bow change legato which Gold doesn’t? How used is that for folks?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Feb 22, 2020)

Well, went for Hollywood Strings Diamond over Spitfire Symphonic Strings. Was less than half the price and sees just as extensive (maybe even more). Hopefully I find it easy enough to work with and blend!


----------



## emid (Feb 22, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Well, went for Hollywood Strings Diamond over Spitfire Symphonic Strings. Was less than half the price and sees just as extensive (maybe even more). Hopefully I find it easy enough to work with and blend!



I upgraded from Gold to Diamond because of the same. Grabbed Hollywood orchestral percs diamond as well for $30 cheaper than Eastwest from jrr. I know with my current setup, my system will struggle but next I'm upgrading to an external SSD for EW libraries or may be more. All of this is costing less than half, or say, half of Spitfire SS. Plus I like the sound of Hollywood series.


----------



## PeterBaumann (Feb 22, 2020)

Very slowly working my way through all of the instruments in HWO Diamond and adding them to the template. WW still is a bit of a weak point except for the flutes & bassoon which are both lovely imo. I suspect the sustains, which are pretty good across the board, will get a lot more use than the legatos. Just not a fan of the legato transitions on the clarinet, oboe or cor anglais, even with a fair bit of level tweaking in the player tab.

Just moved onto brass, and I think the main and vintage mics combined is my fave combination so far for the horns. Really lovely tone. Will see if they work well across all the brass!

Adding mics in as I go to get the best overall sound for each instrument, but will probably have to go back and adjust them all again by the time I get to the strings as RAM may be an issue. Currently at 28.1GB with a few mics on each and all the articulations I could possibly ever want to use and that's just WW & Solo Horn...


----------



## Johnny (Mar 1, 2020)

JohnG said:


> This is not correct. Gold has the mids


Thanks for the correction


----------



## Leon Portelance (Mar 2, 2020)

I’ve always had Diamond so I really don’t know what Gold is like.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 2, 2020)

I have Gold and Diamond but it’s been a while since I’ve used Gold. Pretty sure that Gold does NOT have patches with separate vibrato control. Their vibrato is pretty subtle when used in Diamond and I think more pronounced and always ON in Gold.

Gold may not have certain other instruments as well. There must be a comparison chart at their website.


----------



## Snarf (Mar 3, 2020)

Dave Connor said:


> I have Gold and Diamond but it’s been a while since I’ve used Gold. Pretty sure that Gold does NOT have patches with separate vibrato control. Their vibrato is pretty subtle when used in Diamond and I think more pronounced and always ON in Gold.
> 
> Gold may not have certain other instruments as well. There must be a comparison chart at their website.



Actually I'm pretty sure Gold does have patches with separate vibrato control in the powerful system folder.

The main difference is extra mics and the inclusion bow change legato (both lite and powerful).

EDIT: and divisi mics!


----------



## Dave Connor (Mar 3, 2020)

Snarf said:


> Actually I'm pretty sure Gold does have patches with separate vibrato control in the powerful system folder.
> 
> The main difference is extra mics and the inclusion bow change legato (both lite and powerful).


Ok it’s the BC patches it doesn’t have. Can you confirm the separate vibrato patches at some point? Curious about that.


----------



## AndyP (Mar 3, 2020)

Snarf said:


> Actually I'm pretty sure Gold does have patches with separate vibrato control in the powerful system folder.
> 
> The main difference is extra mics and the inclusion bow change legato (both lite and powerful).


+ Divisi


----------



## Snarf (Mar 3, 2020)

Dave Connor said:


> Ok it’s the BC patches it doesn’t have. Can you confirm the separate vibrato patches at some point? Curious about that.





http://media.soundsonline.com/docs/EW-Hollywood-Strings-Gold-Articulations.pdf



The "pretty sure" was more a figure of speech, sorry. Gold has legato patches with separate control vibrato/dynamic control. It is only the lightest LT 6 with combined controls.




AndyP said:


> + Divisi


Oops, you're right! In my mind I grouped them under extra microphones (because they are basically clunky extra close mics) haha


----------



## AndyP (Mar 3, 2020)

Snarf said:


> http://media.soundsonline.com/docs/EW-Hollywood-Strings-Gold-Articulations.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The only thing I find a pity is that the divisi can only be used with close mic. It's not a big problem, but sometimes I would like to defuse them a bit.


----------



## SamC (Mar 3, 2020)

El Buhdai said:


> What's your take on Hollywood Strings vs CSS? I'm looking to finish buying my orchestra and cancel ComposerCloud and I'm currently looking for a strings library to replace Hollywood Strings. If I can't find one that interests me, I'll buy HS. I enjoy writing with HS and like the sound, but the hardware requirements are insane compared to most Kontakt libraries. I'm considering CSS but I have a few concerns.



Personally, a bit from each. Viola and celli legs from HS paired with 1st violin legs from CSS makes a really cool combo for my sound.

Personally, I don’t really like any of HS’s shorts. For that, I go to CSS and Spitfire.

The problem with achieving a good string sound is you tend to have to mix libraries - which isn’t very economical for us composers!


----------



## JeeTee (Mar 3, 2020)

AndyP said:


> The only thing I find a pity is that the divisi can only be used with close mic. It's not a big problem, but sometimes I would like to defuse them a bit.


Actually, you can!

I did some experiments a while back, and discovered that the Divisi mics are simply the Close stereo mics split to mono. (The Divisi and split Close instruments phase cancel to infinty). So in theory you could split ANY mic position and use it as a Divisi instrument.

Just a thought.


----------



## Snarf (Mar 3, 2020)

JeeTee said:


> Actually, you can!
> 
> I did some experiments a while back, and discovered that the Divisi mics are simply the Close stereo mics split to mono. (The Divisi and split Close instruments phase cancel to infinty). So in theory you could split ANY mic position and use it as a Divisi instrument.
> 
> Just a thought.



Interesting, could you elaborate?


----------



## JeeTee (Mar 3, 2020)

Snarf said:


> Interesting, could you elaborate?



Sure. There's one major difference between the Divisi mics and all the others that appear in the Diamond edition - the Divisis are all MONO sources. That got me thinking - 'what happens if I pan Divisi A all the way to the left, and Divisi B all the way to the right, when playing exactly the same part?'

The answer is, you end up with the stereo Close mics. And I mean exactly, to the point that if you flip the phase on the Close mics they will completely null the Divisi mics. So, to all intents and purposes, the Divisi mics are just the Close mics separated into 2 mono sources.

But of course you could split out any of the other mic positions into their respective left and right channels.
In fact PLAY makes this easy to do. Load a Vln 1 patch and select 'Mono from Left' in Master Channel Source. Now switch the Main mics off and the Surrounds on. Viola! You have a 'Divisi A' patch that's based on the Surrounds.

I should add that for the first violins, Divisi A = Close mic L. For some strange reason, all the other strings are Divisi B = Close mic L. Don't ask....

I hope that's sort of clear(ish). My apologies if I've derailed the thread slightly!


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## gst98 (Mar 4, 2020)

For the diamond users here, if you're uising just one mic position, which do you use? mid or main?


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## cqd (Mar 4, 2020)

I've been mixing as I go.. generally adding surround, maybe close or vintage.. after the BBCSO fiasco it's a joy to just be able to mix in a mic or two and mess around a bit without my computer shitting itself.. I'm starting to really like the tone of the strings.. it's fast kind of becoming my go to.. the upgrade was definitely worth it..


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## John R Wilson (Mar 4, 2020)

cqd said:


> I've been mixing as I go.. generally adding surround, maybe close or vintage.. after the BBCSO fiasco it's a joy to just be able to mix in a mic or two and mess around a bit without my computer shitting itself.. I'm starting to really like the tone of the strings.. it's fast kind of becoming my go to.. the upgrade was definitely worth it..



I've been doing the same. Have set up my template with the main mics loaded and then add the other in were needed. The amount of mics in ewho diamond is just right. The amount of mics in the bbcso is just an over kill. I cant imagine I'll ever use any of the individual spill mics and the full spill mic is sufficient enough plus theirs no way I can run any more than 2/3 mics with the bbcso or else theirs nothing but performance issues and audio drop outs!!


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## John R Wilson (Mar 4, 2020)

gst98 said:


> For the diamond users here, if you're uising just one mic position, which do you use? mid or main?



I've got the main mic loaded in my template for ewho instruments. The main mic does have a more fuller sound, however, the mid mic does seem to have more panning and less stereo spread than the main mics, so it may work better in a mix so I also wonder what everyone's preferred mic is with the ewho out of the main and mid mic.


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## PaulieDC (Mar 4, 2020)

cqd said:


> I've been mixing as I go.. generally adding surround, maybe close or vintage.. after the BBCSO fiasco it's a joy to just be able to mix in a mic or two...


I've been living under a sample library rock... what's the BBCSO Fiasco? I skipped the library for now and instead purchased a better interface. Are there issues with BBCSO?


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## EwigWanderer (Mar 4, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> I've been living under a sample library rock... what's the BBCSO Fiasco? I skipped the library for now and instead purchased a better interface. Are there issues with BBCSO?



It’s easy to find BBCSO thread from sample talk. Let’s not say another word about it in this thread. This is about Hollywood series. Not a spitfire thread.


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## PaulieDC (Mar 4, 2020)

EwigWanderer said:


> It’s easy to find BBCSO thread from sample talk. Let’s not say another word about it in this thread. This is about Hollywood series. Not a spitfire thread.


Roger Wilco.


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## sIR dORT (Mar 17, 2020)

- IMO the bow change legato is excellent and is not included in gold (slur is great too, but I would subjectively say that it covers less ground than the BC legato). 

- HS can at times sound a bit synthy as well with the violins (_at times_), and so the extra mic positions that come with diamond helpful in getting around that.

- I think the choice of mic positions is especially helpful with the short articulations. They allow you to sculpt your desired sound and avoid that synthyness in the higher registers.

Just my opinion. Some of these may have already been covered already, I'm really just describing the changes that I noticed when I upgraded


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## arznable (Mar 18, 2020)

Is it worth upgrading EWHO from Gold to Diamond for $158.5 right now? Or should i wait until Black Friday? Thanks.


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## cqd (Mar 18, 2020)

arznable said:


> Is it worth upgrading EWHO from Gold to Diamond for $158.5 right now? Or should i wait until Black Friday? Thanks.



Yes..


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## José Herring (Mar 18, 2020)

sIR dORT said:


> - IMO the bow change legato is excellent and is not included in gold (slur is great too, but I would subjectively say that it covers less ground than the BC legato).
> 
> - HS can at times sound a bit synthy as well with the violins (_at times_), and so the extra mic positions that come with diamond helpful in getting around that.
> 
> ...


How many mic position can you run on your machine? I think I will finally bump up my HS Gold to HS Diamond but I'm wondering if I'd still be limited in the amount of mic positions I could run say if I built a new fairly decent machine. Ideally I'd like to get HS Diamond and HB Gold running on the same machine with at least 2 to 3 mic positions for HS Diamond.


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## cqd (Mar 18, 2020)

Diamond doesn't seem half as RAM hungry as I was expecting reading certain posters here..I haven't ran a full template but it's not really that bad at all..


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## JohnBMears (Mar 18, 2020)

josejherring said:


> How many mic position can you run on your machine? I think I will finally bump up my HS Gold to HS Diamond but I'm wondering if I'd still be limited in the amount of mic positions I could run say if I built a new fairly decent machine. Ideally I'd like to get HS Diamond and HB Gold running on the same machine with at least 2 to 3 mic positions for HS Diamond.


I have a strong PC slave for HWS diamond and if I do all 4 mic positions I do experience some glitches with powerful legato patches. But I think the surround isn’t needed anyways. If you want bigger space with HWS you need reverb anyways.


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## sIR dORT (Mar 18, 2020)

josejherring said:


> How many mic position can you run on your machine? I think I will finally bump up my HS Gold to HS Diamond but I'm wondering if I'd still be limited in the amount of mic positions I could run say if I built a new fairly decent machine. Ideally I'd like to get HS Diamond and HB Gold running on the same machine with at least 2 to 3 mic positions for HS Diamond.


I only have 16 gigs of ram on my laptop, but it seems to handle multiple mic positions fine. It really varies though with the number of tracks I have, midi data, etc, so it's hard to give you a specific answer unfortunately.


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## sIR dORT (Mar 18, 2020)

JohnBMears said:


> But I think the surround isn’t needed anyways. If you want bigger space with HWS you need reverb anyways.


Very true. Surround does not change the sound very much.


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## aj_vader (Jul 9, 2020)

Hi everyone, I've created a gold vs diamond version of the Star Wars Theme because I keep getting asked about the differences and I thought it be best for people to make their own decisions. 

 

The Gold and Diamond version have the exact same midi performance and mixing techniques. 

The only differences is that in the Gold version you are only hearing the default mic positions which are; 

Woodwind - Mid 
Brass - Main 
Percussion - Main 
Strings - Main 

The Diamond edition is using these mic positions; 

Woodwind - Close, Mid & Main 
Brass - Close, Main & Surround 
Percussion - Close, Main & Surround 
Strings - Close, Mid & Main 

I turned down the overall volume of the Diamond on export to make it a little more fair when comparing to the Gold Edition. 

The actual Gold edition is all the samples/patches (minus bow change legato Strings) at 16bit 44.1kHz and one microphone position. (however you can get another with Composer Cloud X at the time of uploading this post). 

The Diamond edition is 5 microphone positions at 24bit 44.1kHz. If you can afford the diamond edition I would recommend it as I believe it gives much more depth and clarity to the instruments and can be shaped to suit different genres. However you can achieve excellent results with the gold edition of the library.


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## AndyP (Jul 9, 2020)

aj_vader said:


> Hi everyone, I've created a gold vs diamond version of the Star Wars Theme because I keep getting asked about the differences and I thought it be best for people to make their own decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Diamand version sounds much better. It has more depth, more details and also appears much clearer. The string runs sound more genuine, positively noticeable at all corners and ends.


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## AndyP (Jul 9, 2020)

aj_vader said:


> Hi everyone, I've created a gold vs diamond version of the Star Wars Theme because I keep getting asked about the differences and I thought it be best for people to make their own decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did you use the divisi for the string runs? Or layered? They sound fantastic. I'm a big fan of your mockups anyway.


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## aj_vader (Jul 9, 2020)

AndyP said:


> Did you use the divisi for the string runs? Or layered? They sound fantastic. I'm a big fan of your mockups anyway.



Thanks! 

The runs are the main patches with all the players, they are the playable runs with the first and last note of the run layered with a spiccato patch to give the phrase more definition.


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## John R Wilson (Jul 9, 2020)

aj_vader said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The runs are the main patches with all the players, they are the playable runs with the first and last note of the run layered with a spiccato patch to give the phrase more definition.




Sounds great. What reverbs do you use with the Hollywood orchestra?


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## aj_vader (Jul 9, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> Sounds great. What reverbs do you use with the Hollywood orchestra?


Thanks. 

Spaces II


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## John R Wilson (Jul 9, 2020)

aj_vader said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Spaces II



Sounds great, Brilliant mockups!


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## novaburst (Jul 9, 2020)

aj_vader said:


> Hi everyone, I've created a gold vs diamond version of the Star Wars Theme because I keep getting asked about the differences and I thought it be best for people to make their own decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Solid, nice work, did notice the difference but still gold sounds good,


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## Dex (Jul 10, 2020)

Awesome work! I can’t hear the difference on my iPad. Will listen on monitors and headphones tomorrow.


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## gohrev (Jul 10, 2020)

To be honest, I can barely tell the difference between Gold and Diamond.


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## jamieboo (Jul 10, 2020)

aj_vader said:


> Hi everyone, I've created a gold vs diamond version of the Star Wars Theme because I keep getting asked about the differences and I thought it be best for people to make their own decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Very interesting - thank you!

I have Diamond but am just sticking with the default mics while writing - my 32GB can't handle more - I'll try bouncing to audio with the different mics and mixing then.


On a very unrelated note, I'm always curious about the extent to which accomplished users of HO like you tweak the default volumes of the various patches for the sake of balance.
Of course all libraries are not perfectly balanced out of the box, but my mixer looks like a ridiculous city skyline - one instrument will have the fader virtually maxed out while the fader next door is barely above zero.
Is this normal or is something wrong with my setup?

Thanks


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## Markrs (Jul 10, 2020)

aj_vader said:


> Hi everyone, I've created a gold vs diamond version of the Star Wars Theme because I keep getting asked about the differences and I thought it be best for people to make their own decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Amazing work, even though I have composer cloud x (edu) makes me want the diamond version!


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## cqd (Jul 10, 2020)

jamieboo said:


> I have Diamond but am just sticking with the default mics while writing - my 32GB can't handle more - I'll try bouncing to audio with the different mics and mixing then.



Just on this, the only real memory hogs I find are the strings..my template has everything, with a mix of 3 mics generally, and it's not much over 1/2 my 64 g being used according to pro tools..


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## AndyP (Jul 10, 2020)

cqd said:


> Just on this, the only real memory hogs I find are the strings..my template has everything, with a mix of 3 mics generally, and it's not much over 1/2 my 64 g being used according to pro tools..


Same here ... around 42 g.


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## cqd (Jul 10, 2020)

AndyP said:


> Same here ... around 42 g.



Yeah, I wouldn't say I'm even that high.. maybe 35ish..and that's with close to everything I'd want anyway..

The extra mics in the perc and woodwinds take up nothing..


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## I like music (Jul 10, 2020)

jamieboo said:


> Very interesting - thank you!
> 
> I have Diamond but am just sticking with the default mics while writing - my 32GB can't handle more - I'll try bouncing to audio with the different mics and mixing then.
> 
> ...


Have a good friend who has used these libraries from before they came out (I imagine, as he wrote demos for them). He's been using them for close to 10 years, and yes, he's retweaked the volumes with HS. I trust his ear because he's super anal about balances etc. And yes, I think his faders also look like a city skyline.


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## Johnny (Jul 10, 2020)

That is amazing! Re-instilling why I still to this day mainly use HW Strings and HW Brass Diamond- a great sample is a great sample!


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## I like music (Jul 10, 2020)

Amazing to think you can buy HO Gold for a couple of hundred dollars, and do mockups like these. Any new kids asking about what they should buy etc should always be given HO as an option (Composer Cloud!!!) because yes, although they could find parts of it clunky, you can generally do amazing stuff with them.


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## aj_vader (Jul 10, 2020)

berlin87 said:


> To be honest, I can barely tell the difference between Gold and Diamond.



If you listen to the blasts at the beginning of each i'd say there is the biggest difference. The Diamond version also you can't really hear the first violins on the left in the gold (unless you turn it right up, which makes it sounds fake, hence why I prefer diamond). 

Thanks for listening.


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## cqd (Jul 10, 2020)

Ah, there's just so much more weight to everything with the diamond..


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## aj_vader (Aug 11, 2020)

Some new EW Hollywood examples


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## NoamL (Aug 11, 2020)

HWS - the close mics are very good. Unexpectedly perhaps. Because when the library already sounds so dry, I initially thought "why bother with those mics at all" and tried to make a mix with the Decca/Outriggers + Srnds. But gradually while tweaking the library to put it on a better scoring stage and then give it a cinematic tail, the Close mics really help maintaining the right amount of precision and bite together with the Mids and the width of the Main mics.

@aj_vader your work is excellent! Do you have any tips for getting the most out of HWB?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 11, 2020)

I may be in the minority here, but I have HWS Diamond and went through the various mics and combinations and still find the mics that come with Gold perfectly fine. I actually didn't hear THAT much of a difference (apart from the close ones - but the Gold ones aren't that distant sounding). I personally preferred controlling things with a reverb (Spitfire is a little different since AIR is so distinct and reverberant and they capture that well). HWS Diamond does come with additional articulations though, so that's a consideration, but otherwise, I think the Gold versions are perfectly fine.


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## aj_vader (Aug 15, 2020)

NoamL said:


> @aj_vader your work is excellent! Do you have any tips for getting the most out of HWB?



Thank you. Do you mean the HWB mic positions? 

I find that mid, main (without question a must) & surround cover all I need (for the most part). 

I love the close mics but only when it's a very soft intimate kind of sound, if it's something more forceful the close mics are very 'buzzy' but that's exactly what close loud brass sounds like, it's not necessary on a forte piece. 

I actually use as little reverb as possible because I love the sound of the room and find that reverb makes things sound fake, I prefer the dry sounding orchestral recordings like Michael Giacchino's Star Trek or John Williams' original Star Wars soundtrack.


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## aj_vader (Aug 15, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I may be in the minority here, but I have HWS Diamond and went through the various mics and combinations and still find the mics that come with Gold perfectly fine. I actually didn't hear THAT much of a difference (apart from the close ones - but the Gold ones aren't that distant sounding). I personally preferred controlling things with a reverb (Spitfire is a little different since AIR is so distinct and reverberant and they capture that well). HWS Diamond does come with additional articulations though, so that's a consideration, but otherwise, I think the Gold versions are perfectly fine.



You can achieve great results with gold for sure, but I find the diamond elevates my pieces enough for me to justify the price. It's not for everyone of course, but it was a no brainer for me.


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## Casiquire (Aug 16, 2020)

I don't think I would've been able to settle for Gold. It does sound nice but having access to the close mics, the vintage mics, the bow changes, and the divisi is well worth it for me. Your mileage may vary!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Aug 16, 2020)

Here’s a thread where you can listen to a bunch of different mic combinations from Diamond strings:






EWHO Diamond - microphone position example


Earlier tonight I got the idea to load up the same 1st Violins Sustain patch 12 times, and then give each individual patch it's own mix of the 5 microphone positions available in EWHO Diamond. Then I could test how each unique mix of microphone positions sounded when I played the same little...




vi-control.net


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## BasariStudios (Jan 18, 2021)

Zero&One said:


> I will let you know my thoughts when it has downloaded. Current ETA August 2028.


Did this finish already or still downloading?


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