# Spitfire Audio - Spitfire Symphonic Strings - New Legato Tutorial



## Spitfire Team

​​


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http://www.spitfireaudio.com/press-releases/spitfire-mural-rip-press-release/


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## mcalis

Hurray! i think I know what this means by now...


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## URL

Yepp


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## Hafer

The website doesn't reflect the discount in the bundle prices - intended or "not updated yet"?


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## givemenoughrope

mcalis said:


> Hurray! i think I know what this means by now...



I didn't pay attention to the Sable to Chamber strings reboot since I bought it a while ago. Is this a good time to buy or not? All I really want are Mural Ensembles and Mural Evolutions. It seems like the window of opportunity to get the latter wo plunking down for everything is now until mid-month.


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## ctsai89

I currently own volume 1.... Are they re packing it all into 1 product? If so, should i wait until they release the whole package instead of buying the rest of them separately? confused lol.


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## Hafer

Quote from their website: "To celebrate the completion of this project and the closing weeks of its availability *in this modular form *..."

seems pretty clear that they've probably not modular forms like _sable_->_chamber _in their mind. Question remains, whether they plan to offer an introduction price tag for their future_ symphonic strings_ comparable to today's offer.


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## ClefferNotes

Count me in!!


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## mickeyl

I'm very interested in the mural evolutions, but if they are to be included in a forthcoming reboot, then I'd rather buy that instead, if/when it comes. I don't need all mics. @Spitfire Team: Will we know for sure before the promo ends?


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## Tatu

Finally. Time to get that Vol. 3.


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## Saxer

I have Mural 1 & 2 & 3- do I need to buy something now if I just want the benefit of coming SSS?


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## Spitfire Team

Volume 3 my fave!

and for givemeenough, you should move to take advantage of this as they won't be available again in standalone...


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## Thorsten Meyer

Hafer said:


> The website doesn't reflect the discount in the bundle prices - intended or "not updated yet"?


Bundle price is reduced now


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## pixel

I have only v3 and I love it (best strings library in my modest collection). Can't wait to get them all together as one bundle


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## jamwerks

What IS Mural Evolutions? Hadn't ever heard of that...

Also, in their shop, Mural is listed as Chamber strings. Must be a mistake...


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## jononotbono

I don't own any of the Murals. Like I did with Sable, I will wait until Mural is combined as SSS (if or course this is what happens). Great news for people like me starting out. If SCS is anything to go by, this is to be an amazing buy. I had best not mention this around the house.

2016 = Spitfire cleaning up.


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## patrick76

I noticed on Spitfire's website that in Mural 1 all the instruments except Violins 1 have spiccato. Is this truly the case? It does say there is a "short" articulation for violins 1, is this the spiccato? Would be very nice to pick up as another string library at this price.


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## BachN4th

Yay, now lets get those Woodwinds bundled and up to snuff! (I've given up waiting for stereo mixes for those missing them still)

Question about the repackaging of Mural - I own Volumes 1, 2 and Ensembles - I plan to pick up Volume 3, but Symphonic Evolutions isn't really something I am interested in. Will Symphonic Evolutions be merged into the new Symphonic Strings product? I hope not, but I'm guessing they will be - which effectively means even if I did own everything except Evolutions, I'll have to pay a bit more for unwanted content to keep the other non-effects content up to date with bug fixes.


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## Hafer

SA http://www.spitfireaudio.com/press-releases/spitfire-brass-rip/ (here) describe their (now outdated) conditions regarding the transition from _bml brass_ to _symphonic brass_. These conditions imho belong to the upper class of fairplay and cover almost every aspect discussed in this thread so far and much more. 
Would be great if SA would apply these conditions to their transition from _bml mural_ to _symphonic strings_ too.


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## JeffvR

patrick76 said:


> I noticed on Spitfire's website that in Mural 1 all the instruments except Violins 1 have spiccato. Is this truly the case? It does say there is a "short" articulation for violins 1, is this the spiccato? Would be very nice to pick up as another string library at this price.



There is a V1 spicc patch


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## benmrx

Wow. I literally had Mural v1 and v2 in my 'shopping cart' at the Spitfire site two days ago. Glad I waited!!


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## JeffvR

If you buy all of the seperate Volumes the total price is £971. The bundle is £979, weird...


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## jamwerks

I see that Mural Evolutions isn't currently on sale like the rest of the volumes. Maybe that part of Mural won't make it into SSS?


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## benmrx

jamwerks said:


> I see that Mural Evolutions isn't currently on sale like the rest of the volumes. Maybe that part of Mural won't make it into SSS?


Very curious about this as well. Spitfire seems to hold the Mural Evolutions 'close to their chest'.

Also, curious about the 'staccato dig' articulation. I only see it for the basses in Mural v3. Does that articulation exist for Violins 1, 2, Violas and/or Cellos in any of the Mural volumes?


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## Karma

It's happening


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## 5Lives

Makes me wonder if I should just get SSB and go all in on a Spitfire orchestra  Love that warm Air sound.


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## Neifion

Awesome! Would love it if they add a staccato art; the 0'5 and 1'0 shorts are great, but the omission of a proper staccato was always a bit odd.


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## Soundhound

If this follows how Sable>Chamber Strings went, would it make sense to get the Mural Bundle now (I have Mural 1) or wait for the assumed new collection, Spitfire Symphonic Strings?


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## Gerhard Westphalen

Soundhound said:


> If this follows how Sable>Chamber Strings went, would it make sense to get the Mural Bundle now (I have Mural 1) or wait for the assumed new collection, Spitfire Symphonic Strings?


I think that largely depends on if you'd want the expansion. If not then I'd wait since the upgrade price for having Mural 1 to just the standard symphonic strings probably won't be very much.


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## FriFlo

Saxer said:


> I have Mural 1 & 2 & 3- do I need to buy something now if I just want the benefit of coming SSS?


Yes, you will have to! Just like with SCS: My beloved Ensembles library ...


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## Vik

So - the ensembles aren't included in scs?


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## jononotbono

Vik said:


> So - the ensembles aren't included in scs?



They are included in SCS. Excluding 4 mic positions, SCS includes everything from all Sable vols. The expansion adds the extra mic positions.


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## ChristopherDoucet

I really wished woodwinds would happen next. Personally. But this should be really great! I love Mural.


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## muziksculp

Looking forward to *Spitfire Symphonic Strings* !


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## Soundhound

Oh right, the expansion (extra mics), forgot about that. Thanks!



Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I think that largely depends on if you'd want the expansion. If not then I'd wait since the upgrade price for having Mural 1 to just the standard symphonic strings probably won't be very much.


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## dhlkid

Please do the woodwind soon....


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## tigersun

So even though I just bought the Albion bundle this seems to good to pass up if I just want Mural 1. But what happens if I upgrade to the new symphonic strings that is presumably coming? For Chamber Strings and Brass did you just get the newer complete version in a addition and get to keep the old modular pieces...?

Also for my fellow American peeps, the pound is going up against the dollar since a court ruled the PM alone can't invoke article 50! Hasn't been much and won't be a huge effect for just one piece yet but I'm scared to wait another week or so as I was planning. Hey, a dollar is a dollar


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## BachN4th

tigersun said:


> So even though I just bought the Albion bundle this seems to good to pass up if I just want Mural 1. But what happens if I upgrade to the new symphonic strings that is presumably coming? For Chamber Strings and Brass did you just get the newer complete version in a addition and get to keep the old modular pieces...?



I owned all of Sable before it was repackaged into SCS, so I got SCS for free - and I still have and can use the modular versions, but the modular versions didn't get any new sample content or bug fixes, nor will they.. SCS will get get any content updates and bug fixes. 

As far as the brass goes, it was a different situation - I owned everything except bone phalanx and trumpet phalanx (they weren't released when I bought the whole BML orchestral bundle), rather than buying those two phalanx modules, I just paid a small fee to upgrade to SSB. So now I have and can use the modular versions of all the brass except trumpet and bone phalanx, but of course none of those have the new 2.0 additional articulations, they are only found in SSB. 

So with the Mural repacked (we can guess fairly confidently is coming) if all you ever expect to use is Mural Volume 1, and you are content knowing that it won't be updated with new articulations or bug fixes - then buying only that module is your best bet. Otherwise, you'll have to pay some kind of upgrade fee (whether you pay that by means of picking up more parts of the Mural bundle or wait for the new repackaged library - and who can say right now which method is the least expensive.)

Also to consider, I believe (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong), you will only get the expansions (additional microphone positions) free if you purchased all the modules before they were repackaged. I assume that is why I was given the S-Chamber Strings update free, and I expect that I would have to pay a portion of the charge for a Symphonic Brass mic expansion pack because I don't already own the extended mics for Trumpet and Bones Phalanx.

I own all the woodwinds, so lets bring that repackage on soon - at this point I'm even fine with a repackage of the woodwinds before they finish releasing the free extra mics for all the woodwind modules. And please let there be 2.0 additional articulations, clarinet(s) and oboe(s) still only have Legato, long, and staccato. (Even the contrabassoon has more articulations!)


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## Vik

Why do you only want Mural1, tigersun?


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## camelot

I see patches with flautando and sul tasto. What is the difference here? Because for me, they are technically identical.


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## Spitfire Team

oooh, you haven't tried the Spitfire flautandos... The instruction is complex and involves tasto, but some other stuff too... the result flute like and a lot rounder than straight sul tast. A lot of people's favourite articulation that we produce.


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## Musicam

Bernard Herrmann Library coming soon? I read in the page of the product that the library will match with Albion.  I am nervous


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## camelot

Spitfire Team said:


> oooh, you haven't tried the Spitfire flautandos... The instruction is complex and involves tasto, but some other stuff too... the result flute like and a lot rounder than straight sul tast. A lot of people's favourite articulation that we produce.


Oh yes, I know this from SCS, I like it and I know it is a popular patch. I just wondered why there is also (in Mural as in SCS) a sul tasto and why does it sound different. Because I thought both to be performed identical. And I can't remember having ever seen an instruction saying flautando.
It is then at first a bit confusing for me which one to choose in a mock-up situation, if the instruction says sul tasto. I guess I simply let my ear decide.
But since flautando sounds mostly superior, do the sul tasto end up never being used?

This is not a critique. I'm just curious .


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## Creston

@Spitfire Team Will Evolutions be in the new product you put together based on Mural?


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## Spitfire Team

Dear Camelot,

No critique observed! I love this kind of discourse... and disagree with your observation naturally. Whilst text books may say sul tasto and flautando are one in the same thing, string players will say they're not. Fundamentally for me (in my incredibly flawed theoretical knowledge, but quite rich experience as a composer and samplist) sul tasto is a 'direction' and 'flautando' is an invitation. The difference? sul tasto instructs the player to play further towards the finger board. Flautando invites the player to imitate a flute. How do they do this, well by playing further up the finger board yes, but by also employing techniques which make their instrument sound more like a flute. Why do flautandos sound richer than sul tastos? Well my humble opinion is that your group of players are all interpreting the 'invitation' slightly differently and when a group, section or ensemble are playing the same notes, but all in nuanced different ways it sounds richer. Now is richer better, yes if you want a rich sound, I would instruct players to play sul tasto to communicate loss, hopelessness... obviously whilst getting the notes right too. I used it a lot in La Rafle for example, I wanted searing sorrow but without the warmth, there was no hope.

So for me things like 'pizzicato' is useful if you want a player to pick the strings as opposed to inviting them to "play like a bass guitar" but I always find invitations like 'dolce' and 'espressivo' get much better results than specifying levels of vibrato and dynamic?

Thats my somewhat cobbled together weirdly educated understanding anyway...

Does anyone else use Mural Flautandos and Sul Tasto?


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## prodigalson

I don't use the Mural Flauts much but definitely use the "super sul tasto" and the SCS Flautandos together a lot. In terms of choosing which to use, I just use my ear and have them all available for audition for each moment in a score. 

(I also have similar articulations available from other developers and sometimes use them but almost every time I end up going with a Spitfire flaut or ST)


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## ClefferNotes

Spitfire Team said:


> Dear Camelot,
> 
> No critique observed! I love this kind of discourse... and disagree with your observation naturally. Whilst text books may say sul tasto and flautando are one in the same thing, string players will say they're not. Fundamentally for me (in my incredibly flawed theoretical knowledge, but quite rich experience as a composer and samplist) sul tasto is a 'direction' and 'flautando' is an invitation. The difference? sul tasto instructs the player to play further towards the finger board. Flautando invites the player to imitate a flute. How do they do this, well by playing further up the finger board yes, but by also employing techniques which make their instrument sound more like a flute. Why do flautandos sound richer than sul tastos? Well my humble opinion is that your group of players are all interpreting the 'invitation' slightly differently and when a group, section or ensemble are playing the same notes, but all in nuanced different ways it sounds richer. Now is richer better, yes if you want a rich sound, I would instruct players to play sul tasto to communicate loss, hopelessness... obviously whilst getting the notes right too. I used it a lot in La Rafle for example, I wanted searing sorrow but without the warmth, there was no hope.
> 
> So for me things like 'pizzicato' is useful if you want a player to pick the strings as opposed to inviting them to "play like a bass guitar" but I always find invitations like 'dolce' and 'espressivo' get much better results than specifying levels of vibrato and dynamic?
> 
> Thats my somewhat cobbled together weirdly educated understanding anyway...
> 
> Does anyone else use Mural Flautandos and Sul Tasto?


Great explanation thank you! I have always wondered the difference. To answer your question, I find an excuse to use flautandos all the time, I can't get enough of it! Just purchased Mural ensembles and I am in love already, it will complement my Mural vol 1 library a treat, especially sketching out a full ensemble flautando section! :D


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## Spitfire Team

yummy...!


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## jamwerks

Great that you guys think about all this stuff, and not just plain "short", "long", etc. !


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## camelot

Spitfire Team said:


> ...Flautando invites the player to imitate a flute. How do they do this, well by playing further up the finger board yes, but by also employing techniques which make their instrument sound more like a flute...


I think that clarifies it a little more for me. I had the feeling that the name is somehow related to the flute. So I looked it up in an translator from Italian and I found the supposedly related word _flautare_, which means piping or making the sound of a flute. Hence, flautando can really be understood as a instruction to imitate the sound of a flute, with its typical lack of (especially even) overtones. So, I would assume depending on the effort of the player, it is more than just playing at the fingerboard

Thank you for taking the time to discuss this and give me (just a simple user of sample libs) a kind of look behind it all.


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## mickeyl

Creston said:


> @Spitfire Team Will Evolutions be in the new product you put together based on Mural?



Question 2nded.


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## benmrx

Question: If I buy into Mural now, say Volume 1,2 and 3, will that still get me a discount on the (I assume soon to be released) Symphonic Strings package? Or is that discount only for those that had already purchased Mural at it's original price point?

Question 2: For those that own the original BML volumes, is the discount to the newer 'all-in-one' libraries on-going, or does that purchase need to be made before the intro pricing ends. For example, if say you own Sable v1, 2 and 3 are you STILL eligible for the discount towards 'Spitfire Chamber Strings' as of today or is that discount no longer available?

Fully understand if Spitfire doesn't want to answer these questions, but maybe someone that went through this with the Chamber strings and/or Brass can chime in?

Basically, I'm thinking about getting Mural v1, 2 and 3 now, and then upgrading to the new full package early next year.


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## Hafer

I'm confident that SA doesn't try to cheat or play tactical games. Look at what they did with the http://www.spitfireaudio.com/press-releases/spitfire-brass-rip/ (brass transition) and, I'm quite positive, you should know what to expect with the strings transition. Regarding the pricing policy, if I remember correctly, in case of Albion, they even reduced the price of the bundle's parts to resemble the introductory price of the new bundle. That's more than fair. No questions about optimizing one's shopping tour needed. There are windows of opportunity, though, but these were announced widely afaik.


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## synthpunk

Great video Oliver, bad shirt! 
Unfortunately not in the budget after V, really wish you would of listened to you user feedback on Symphonic Evolutions being bundle only.


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## benmrx

Not sure if that was directed at me, but I absolutely agree that SA are not trying to play games here. To me, this whole repackaging of BML is insanely good for us consumers! Prices almost seem to good to be true. I just want to make sure I fully understand what my options are!

Looking at the sheet here: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...om/_resources/images/cms2/334/brassrip-06.jpg

If they follow the same guidelines for Mural, this leads me to believe that I can indeed purchase the BML Mural volumes while on sale right now, and then use that to get a discount that is NOT time limited. So, Purchase Mural 1,2,3 now, then upgrade to the Spitfire Symphonic Strings in February. I do understand the discount won't be as great if I wait, but just want to make sure I won't have to pay full price when the time to upgrade comes.


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## Spitfire Team

Heya,

We've launched the firesale as a means of focussing on people who may want to really pin point parts of the collection they want without feeling railroaded into buying a bigger package. Namely Evolutions.... unbelievable collection of tools we always wanted to keep exclusive.

I can guarantee there will be an overlap between the firesale and any more info... and I can also guarantee.... in a way that a human with flaws and errors and everything. That what we have planned all squares up...

My piece of advice to fellow composers is, if you wanted a piece of the Mural action, whether that be 1, Ensembles, or indeed (and by far the thing you have to grab at this op!!!!!) Evolutions, then grab those now, you're safe.... its an awesome deal. If you're more interested in a bigger symphonic strings package wait 'til next week to make your decision.

Best.

CH.


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## benmrx

Spitfire Team said:


> Heya,
> 
> We've launched the firesale as a means of focussing on people who may want to really pin point parts of the collection they want without feeling railroaded into buying a bigger package. Namely Evolutions.... unbelievable collection of tools we always wanted to keep exclusive.
> 
> I can guarantee there will be an overlap between the firesale and any more info... and I can also guarantee.... in a way that a human with flaws and errors and everything. That what we have planned all squares up...
> 
> My piece of advice to fellow composers is, if you wanted a piece of the Mural action, whether that be 1, Ensembles, or indeed (and by far the thing you have to grab at this op!!!!!) Evolutions, then grab those now, you're safe.... its an awesome deal. If you're more interested in a bigger symphonic strings package wait 'til next week to make your decision.
> 
> Best.
> 
> CH.


Awesome! Thank you so much for the info!


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## jamwerks

Hoping that when SSS shows, it'll have Vol. IV'ish type content (extended legato, playable patch, etc.). I imagine that will be the case. I presently have Vol. I & II, and looking forward to this complete large string ensemble package.

SSS + SCS should cover a lot of ground !!


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## Hafer

Spitfire Team said:


> there will be an overlap between the firesale and any more info



Great news, thx!


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## jononotbono

jamwerks said:


> SSS + SCS should cover a lot of ground !!



Can't agree more. I love SCS so much and been patiently waiting for this to happen. They will be my main String libraries. 

I wonder if Evolutions is going to be included in the SSS (or whatever it maybe called)? Hopefully!


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## playz123

Oh gosh, should I say anything? Although the ad says Symphonic Evolutions are on sale for the "first" (and last) time as a standalone item, this can't be correct, at least not according to my receipt and records. On January 3, 2016, I visited the Spitfire site and bought Mural Symphonic Evolutions as a totally separate purchase for "199 GBP". And I've never purchased Mural, only Mural ensembles. In other words, it had to have been offered as a separate item at least once, although I am aware that for a long time one had to be a Mural 'owner' to obtain it. Not sure why there's a discrepancy between my experience and the ad.


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## tigersun

Vik said:


> Why do you only want Mural1, tigersun?



Well, I do want more but I can't exactly afford anything at the moment. Perhaps I will have to look deeper into the other volumes and maybe I can convince myself to be even more financially irresponsible!


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## gpax

playz123 said:


> Oh gosh, should I say anything? Although the ad says Symphonic Evolutions are on sale for the "first" (and last) time as a standalone item, this can't be correct, at least not according to my receipt and records. On January 3, 2016, I visited the Spitfire site and bought Mural Symphonic Evolutions as a totally separate purchase for "199 GBP". And I've never purchased Mural, only Mural ensembles. In other words, it had to have been offered as a separate item at least once, although I am aware that for a long time one had to be a Mural 'owner' to obtain it. Not sure why there's a discrepancy between my experience and the ad.


I think that was when it became accessible via a mistake, and a handful of people were able to add it to their holiday "Wish List." As I recall, SF decided to honor this and make it available for a limited time. Hence, it was a narrow window open, though they never officially put it on sale.


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## Red

So the symphonic evolutions will be a part of the upcoming Symphonic Strings?

Or are you saying they are only available now


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## Hafer

Red said:


> So the symphonic evolutions will be a part of the upcoming Symphonic Strings?
> 
> Or are you saying they are only available now


Why should they dump it after SSS hits market? If you're unsure, read Chris' recent post.


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## EvilDragon

My guess it Symphonic Evolutions would be a part of extended version.


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## Ron Verboom

Spitfire Team said:


> and what better sparring partner than our new Albion V library!


Cool! Sounds great in combination with Albion V Tundra. Now if i only could find some extra $$.


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## playz123

gpax said:


> I think that was when it became accessible via a mistake, and a handful of people were able to add it to their holiday "Wish List." As I recall, SF decided to honor this and make it available for a limited time. Hence, it was a narrow window open, though they never officially put it on sale.


To clarify further, I never created a wish list...just went to the web store and purchased it. Perhaps it had been listed for a short period in error....I have no idea....but the point was, that no matter the reason, it was available previously. But, in the overall scheme of things is this important? Absolutely not.  Was 'just saying...'.


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## Spitfire Team

Thanks playz123 you are right, we made a boo boo during the Evo bundle promo earlier this year. Not intended, but hope you're enjoying the evolutions nevertheless!


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## dcoscina

I jumped on the Symphonic Strings fire sale. I listened to Paul's walk through and the warmth and expression (with the ability to control vibrato) was just too good. 

Have to say this- of all the libraries I have, I get the most positive feedback re: realism whenever I used mostly Spitfire products. There is something very organic to the sound that really impresses people.


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## tommalm

So what happened to the Symphonic Evolutions "in action" video? I'd just started watching it, but it seems to have been deleted from Youtube...? I can't seem to find any traces of it...Did I just dream this?


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## playz123

Spitfire Team said:


> Thanks playz123 you are right, we made a boo boo during the Evo bundle promo earlier this year. Not intended, but hope you're enjoying the evolutions nevertheless!


Absolutely....enjoying all the Evos, but have to admit that Symphonic Evolutions is probably my favorite. Highly recommended too!


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## Spitfire Team

tommalm said:


> So what happened to the Symphonic Evolutions "in action" video? I'd just started watching it, but it seems to have been deleted from Youtube...? I can't seem to find any traces of it...Did I just dream this?



Technical issue with the video, we'll re-post on Monday, many apols...


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## 5Lives

So will Evolutions be part of the new bundle or is this the only chance to get those samples? I hope it won't be only part of the Extended expansion. I only need CTA mics.


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## EvilDragon

I don't think they'll include it in the basic package...


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## SoNowWhat?

playz123 said:


> Absolutely....enjoying all the Evos, but have to admit that Symphonic Evolutions is probably my favorite. Highly recommended too!


Sorry playz, excuse my ignorance but by Symphonic Evolutions do you mean the Mural Evos? I'm very interested in them. 

Also wouldn't be surprised to see Spitfire put the evos into an expansion rather than main library. But, I really know nothing and sounds like we will have more info next week.


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## Quasar

I watched the Symphonic Evolutions walkthough as well as the Evo grid explanatory video, and it simply blows me away... Are any other developers creating anything even _remotely _similar? I don't have the $$$ (or £££) to take advantage of much of the BML firesale, but Evolutions looks too cool to pass up.


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## benmrx

Question on Mural v2. Does anyone know if the measured trems can lock to host tempo?


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## playz123

SoNowWhat? said:


> Sorry playz, excuse my ignorance but by Symphonic Evolutions do you mean the Mural Evos? I'm very interested in them.
> 
> Also wouldn't be surprised to see Spitfire put the evos into an expansion rather than main library. But, I really know nothing and sounds like we will have more info next week.


Yes, "BML Symphonic Strings Mural Evolutions" Where they will end up in this release I do not know at present. Stay tuned!


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## AllanH

I'd been considering Mural for a while and bought into vol 1 primarily to give it a test-run as the demos sound very good. WOW - this is a whole new level of playability for me and the sound is so smooth and pure. I'm very interested in seeing what Spitfire does with the product moving forward.


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## ctsai89

AllanH said:


> I'd been considering Mural for a while and bought into vol 1 primarily to give it a test-run as the demos sound very good. WOW - this is a whole new level of playability for me and the sound is so smooth and pure. I'm very interested in seeing what Spitfire does with the product moving forward.



Yes it sounds good but couple of issues that i really hope they would fix are:

the attacks on legato patches are either too slow or too harsh, there is no middle ground.

When spiccato is played very fast (16th notes at 140bpm) they won't play close to even with each other.

Other wise the vol.1 would've been perfectly all i needed.


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## OleJoergensen

oh, the legato is important. I did notice in some of the demos the "banging" sound in the legato transition. Some of East West's libraries has this problem too but there is a volume knob to adjust that. Mural does not has this option? 
on the other hand, I remember a poll about which string Library people uses and Mural was one of the most used (if I remember correctly). So many user most have found a way around this problem...?I just read an other tread. http://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-mural-issues.49151/ I will wait for the new String Library.


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## Vik

OleJoergensen said:


> Some of East West's libraries has this problem too but there is a volume knob to adjust that. Mural does not has this option?


It has a knob for legato volume, but very often it seems to do nothing at all (or almost nothing), and this is very audible with the portamentos.

ETA: I feel I should add a little..... not "warning", but question mark to this topic. Various issues with Mural has been raised across several threads. What will happen with those of us who have these problems (and this will include those who now invest in separate, existing Mural volumes) after the big update that we all think will come soon, where Mural probably will be transformed into Spitfire Symphony Strings, the same way Sable became Spitfire Chamber Strings not long ago.

OleJoergensen already linked to one main Mural issues thread, but there are some others as well.

Will we/they get updates for the existing Mural problems we have/do we need to accept that we have to live with them forever/do we have to pay for a new and more expensive product to get fixes for the issues we have?

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/mural-fast-runs-issue.49431/ 
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/open-letter-to-spitfire-audio-no-legato-update.53266/
http://vi-control.net/community/thr...orrectly-and-other-issues.48299/#post-3976181
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/sa-mural-1-staccato-strings-lack-timing-tightness.48920/
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/strings-favorite-legato-scripting.50684/page-2#post-3971181
http://vi-control.net/community/thr...gs-legato-or-only-lass-ls.48954/#post-3997913 

I hope and think the upcoming symphonic update will be great. And - and in one way it feels wrong to bring up something which may hurt the current Mural firesale - but it would also be wrong not to tell potential buyers of separate, soon-to-disappear Mural volumes that there is a big question mark here... (and maybe that's why it's called a "firesale" and not just a sale?)


----------



## OleJoergensen

Thank you for sharing experiences [email protected] 
I would be quite unhappy buying a product with great demoes and then experience "banging" legato transition, well knowing there might be no update for a discontinued library. 
Hm I was so excited for this els good offer. I have not heard other string libraries with this nice symphonic sound. 
But it seems that al libraries has there weakness and strength.


----------



## The Darris

playz123 said:


> Yes, "BML Symphonic Strings Mural Evolutions"> They did include an Evo in SCS, but where they will end up in this release I do not know at present. Stay tuned!


No, there is NO Evo Grid for Spitfire Chamber Strings. That is just factually wrong. 

Just and observation here: There are a lot of people throwing out speculation in this thread in a way that makes it seem like they are facts. Please don't do this. Ask questions, that's fine. But when you speculate by making things up without verifying, it confuses people who are new to this series.

Like I said, ask questions but wait patiently as we have 10 days to learn more from Spitfire. 

With that said, I'm excited for what is to come. If they do the exact same thing they did to Sable, than the best reason to take advantage of this sale is if you want Mural Evo or Ensembles or any volume without having to spend alot on the whole package. What @Spitfire Team has said is this is the last chance to get Mural in its Modular form. I'm going to wait and see what they are announcing for this series. I own Vol 1-3 and would love to complete it but without pricing comparisons of before and after the 16th, still not enough info to decide.

Cheers,

Chris


----------



## ctsai89

Vik said:


> It has a knob for legato volume, but very often it seems to do nothing at all (or almost nothing), and this is very audible with the portamentos.
> 
> ETA: I feel I should add a little..... not "warning", but question mark to this topic. Various issues with Mural has been raised across several threads. What will happen with those of us who have these problems (and this will include those who now invest in separate, existing Mural volumes) after the big update that we all think will come soon, where Mural probably will be transformed into Spitfire Symphony Strings, the same way Sable became Spitfire Chamber Strings not long ago.
> 
> OleJoergensen already linked to one main Mural issues thread, but there are some others as well.
> 
> Will we/they get updates for the existing Mural problems we have/do we need to accept that we have to live with them forever/do we have to pay for a new and more expensive product to get fixes for the issues we have?
> 
> http://vi-control.net/community/threads/mural-fast-runs-issue.49431/
> http://vi-control.net/community/threads/open-letter-to-spitfire-audio-no-legato-update.53266/
> http://vi-control.net/community/thr...orrectly-and-other-issues.48299/#post-3976181
> http://vi-control.net/community/threads/sa-mural-1-staccato-strings-lack-timing-tightness.48920/
> http://vi-control.net/community/threads/strings-favorite-legato-scripting.50684/page-2#post-3971181
> http://vi-control.net/community/thr...gs-legato-or-only-lass-ls.48954/#post-3997913
> 
> I hope and think the upcoming symphonic update will be great. And - and in one way it feels wrong to bring up something which may hurt the current Mural firesale - but it would also be wrong not to tell potential buyers of separate, soon-to-disappear Mural volumes that there is a big question mark here... (and maybe that's why it's called a "firesale" and not just a sale?)




If those problems are fixed i can 90% be sure to say spitfire symphonic strings will be the last library anyone would ever have to buy. For eternity.


----------



## Jdiggity1

ctsai89 said:


> If those problems are fixed i can 90% be sure to say spitfire symphonic strings will be the last library anyone would ever have to buy. For eternity.


HA!!
You must be new here.


----------



## playz123

The Darris said:


> No, there is NO Evo Grid for Spitfire Chamber Strings. That is just factually wrong.
> Chris


Oops...correct, Chris. Just a late night 'typo'....I was thinking of Tundra, their latest release that has an Evo, and typed SCS instead. My apologies.

As for your apparent criticism of those who speculate about what lies ahead....well I'm not much of a speculator myself, and yes, once in awhile it may lead to some misunderstanding. But it's something that happens on forums, whether one approves or not, and personally I don't feel the need to be overly concerned about it. I have enough trouble keeping my own facts straight!


----------



## AllanH

my two cents: For ~$250 Mural 1 is a good value despite the known issues. I love the tone, but were hesitant to buy in at "list". Hopefully Spitfire will move the product forward similarly to what they with the Sable -> Chamber Strings. 

It's not as if I "need" another strings library, but I've said that before.


----------



## khollister

Damn - just bought Symphonic Evolutions. I'm so weak


----------



## Spitfire Team

khollister said:


> Damn - just bought Symphonic Evolutions. I'm so weak



You made a very good choice...


----------



## prodigalson

Absolutely love the sound of Mural, I'm really keeping my fingers crossed for some new performance legato patches a la SCS! That would make Mural my hands down go-to for symphonic strings (the way Sable, and now SCS is my go-to for basically everything else!).


----------



## The Darris

Spitfire Team said:


> You made a very good choice...


So, are we to expect any new information about the future of Mural before the 16th? Especially concerning Mural Evolutions?


----------



## ctsai89

Jdiggity1 said:


> HA!!
> You must be new here.



I am new. lol but i've tried out every single string libraries out there.


----------



## ctsai89

Jdiggity1 said:


> HA!!
> You must be new here.



And I do hope you know that all i'm trying to do is to encourage spitfire to do their best as it would benefit both us and them since it's their once a life time chance to destroy all the other competition which I think they've always came pretty close to but had been more times where they dissapointed me


----------



## kgdrum

The Darris said:


> So, are we to expect any new information about the future of Mural before the 16th? Especially concerning Mural Evolutions?




+1

I would like to know if Mural Evolutions will be part of the new edition........
Thanks


----------



## benmrx

It's already been stated by Spitfire that there WILL be an overlap between the 'fire sale' and more details on the new library.


----------



## khollister

Spitfire Team said:


> You made a very good choice...



I think I've about decided on Chamber Strings too, but I'm waiting to see what Black Friday may bring


----------



## windyweekend

Spitfire Team said:


> Heya,
> 
> We've launched the firesale as a means of focussing on people who may want to really pin point parts of the collection they want without feeling railroaded into buying a bigger package. Namely Evolutions.... unbelievable collection of tools we always wanted to keep exclusive.
> 
> I can guarantee there will be an overlap between the firesale and any more info... and I can also guarantee.... in a way that a human with flaws and errors and everything. That what we have planned all squares up...
> 
> My piece of advice to fellow composers is, if you wanted a piece of the Mural action, whether that be 1, Ensembles, or indeed (and by far the thing you have to grab at this op!!!!!) Evolutions, then grab those now, you're safe.... its an awesome deal. If you're more interested in a bigger symphonic strings package wait 'til next week to make your decision.
> 
> Best.
> 
> CH.



I coughed up for Symphonic Brass last week and was looking to get some Mural packs (or Mural equivalent products) imminently. Are you hinting that the bigger symphonic strings package will be coming out next week? if so, how much overlap will we have between the new pack coming out and the firesale finishing? Thx! (the brass is insanely huge btw - thank you - worth every penny)


----------



## ctsai89

Aoiichi said:


> I'd be fine with the Symphonic Strings package if it didn't have any content from Mural Evo or ensembles, and simply fixed these issues, as well as providing a legato functionality identical to what there is in Chamber.



Yes but more specifically: fixed and provided legato functionaility identical to the 1st VIOLIN of SFCS. Not 2nd, not viola, but first violin specifically. That's the most playable and smooth patch of chamber strings. It doens't have much annoyance/inconsistencies that 2nd violin/violas/cellos have. I find mural volume 1 to be consistent generally so im hoping it doens't turn into a dissapointment like chamber did


----------



## Red

Yeah. Same here. I posted this before, still haven't gotten a clear answer.

Regarding the Symphonic Evolutions, will it be integrated as a part of Symphonic Strings (like ensembles section of Chamber Strings)

or are you guys gonna keep it exclusive as a separate Evo instrument
and that this is the only chance to get the Symphonic Evolutions in any form.

In other words, *after* Symphonic Strings gets released, will we be able to pickup Symphonic Evolutions separately?


----------



## prodigalson

ctsai89 said:


> I find mural volume 1 to be consistent generally so im hoping it doens't turn into a dissapointment like chamber did



SCS was a disappointment?? I had no idea. somehow missed that.


----------



## ctsai89

prodigalson said:


> SCS was a disappointment?? I had no idea. somehow missed that.



only for me personally and a few others like Vik apparently. We've found some stuff especially the legato of all patches besides 1st violins to be quite inconsistent where some notes will spike up in dynamic/volume when i hold it out for a whole note after it's been connected to a previous note with a legato. 1st violins are fine though, and in general it's a very beautiful sounding library so I could live with it as if it's at 85% for me. Could've been 100% but 85% which is good enough but still a dissapointment.. you know what i mean?


----------



## prodigalson

ctsai89 said:


> Could've been 100% but 85% which is good enough but still a dissapointment.. you know what i mean?



Sure, "good enough but still a disappointment"...so, not perfect? got it


----------



## ctsai89

prodigalson said:


> Sure, "good enough but still a disappointment"...so, not perfect? got it



yep. Many of the members here that i've read reviewing/raving about chamber strings and have said words like "worth every penny" and "no weakness" and I just have to disagree with them. I'm a string player myself and maybe just so happen to notice more things or have a higher standard or something. I mean, out of all the string libraries that are out there, i'd still choose spitfire chamber over all the other virtual chamber string libraries i've heard. Vienna would be like a 40% for me, nope just nope. Synthy. sorry lol.


----------



## Vik

ctsai89 said:


> only for me personally and a few others like Vik apparently. We've found some stuff especially the legato of all patches besides 1st violins to be quite inconsistent where some notes will spike up in dynamic/volume when i hold it out for a whole note after it's been connected to a previous note with a legato. 1st violins are fine though, and in general it's a very beautiful sounding library so I could live with it as if it's at 85% for me. Could've been 100% but 85% which is good enough but still a dissapointment.. you know what i mean?


Hi ctsai89, I haven't tried Sable or SCS, I have only Mural 1 and 2 - but based on what I've read here and heard in demos, Sable is way ahead of Mural in terms of sounds and functionality. That could of course change very soon with Spitfire's upcoming announcement.


----------



## Karsten Vogt

I was pretty disappointed with SCS, too. Knocks, clicks, wrong notes playing, volume inconsistencies. Nothing I'd expect from a pretty expensive library like that one. I reported all bugs I found (just went through the ensemble and 1st violin patch) but I don't think most of them will be fixed. Or will Spitfire Audio record new samples? I don't think so but I'd like to be totally wrong here. 
I thought about buying the Albion bundle but now I'm not so sure anymore. No resale, no demo version, only very positive reviews (just like SCS); don't want to buy a pig in a poke.

But aside from all the bugs and quirks: it sounds great.


----------



## ctsai89

Karsten Vogt said:


> I was pretty disappointed with SCS, too. Knocks, clicks, wrong notes playing, volume inconsistencies. Nothing I'd expect from a pretty expensive library like that one. I reported all bugs I found (just went through the ensemble and 1st violin patch) but I don't think most of them will be fixed. Or will Spitfire Audio record new samples? I don't think so but I'd like to be totally wrong here.



Volume inconsistencies is what im pissed about the most :(. I haven't experienced wrong notes playing tho? which notes on which patch are you speaking of? I am quite fond of the 1st Violin legato patch but not the rest of other one's such as V2, VA, and VC. Glad to have another one experiencing the same things i experience speaking up! thanks


----------



## ctsai89

Vik said:


> Hi ctsai89, I haven't tried Sable or SCS, I have only Mural 1 and 2 - but based on what I've read here and heard in demos, Sable is way ahead of Mural in terms of sounds and functionality. That could of course change very soon with Spitfire's upcoming announcement.



I feel like in their demoes they've avoided playing all the things that would show the problems we've listed. That may be why lol. 

But hey Spitfire, never take what i say the wrong way. Spitfire beats all other sample library makers for me. Just bothers me that something i find so close to perfection couldn't be perfect when it has the potential.


----------



## Karsten Vogt

That's exactly my point. SCS could be absolutely perfect; it's an absolute lovely library. But some quirks...


----------



## Spitfire Team

The ever and ongoing question of reality > imperfection > perfection > synth... You'll be surprised at how many times we polished the life out of something only to have to go back via versioning to something more realistic and characterful.

A whirling ball of difficulty we struggle with daily. Paul will tell you that we took it too far on Alpha v1.2 of Albion ONE, and had to go back and grab those fruity ones. Its a big balance. We're constantly working as composers filing QA reports, duking out what could be better, what should be better, what needs to stay... But I'm pulling our own thread off topic.

Regarding Mural developments, we'll have more news soon which will overlap with everything so informed decisions can be made. As mentioned before if you're looking at purchasing a single volume of Mural, say your first volume, ie ensembles, and in PARTICULAR evolutions, now is definitely the time.


----------



## ctsai89

Spitfire Team said:


> The ever and ongoing question of reality > imperfection > perfection > synth... You'll be surprised at how many times we polished the life out of something only to have to go back via versioning to something more realistic and characterful.
> 
> A whirling ball of difficulty we struggle with daily. Paul will tell you that we took it too far on Alpha v1.2 of Albion ONE, and had to go back and grab those fruity ones. Its a big balance. We're constantly working as composers filing QA reports, duking out what could be better, what should be better, what needs to stay... But I'm pulling our own thread off topic.
> 
> Regarding Mural developments, we'll have more news soon which will overlap with everything so informed decisions can be made. As mentioned before if you're looking at purchasing a single volume of Mural, say your first volume, ie ensembles, and in PARTICULAR evolutions, now is definitely the time.



I don't mean that you guys have to make it "perfect" as in make it like how vienna (which im no fan of) does, "synthy". But if the 1st violin legatos of the chamber strings can be so smooth then why can't the va, v2, vc be that way as well? I would consider the 1st violin legato to be pretty much almost perfect and if the rest of everything else can be just as consistent then i'd call it done and i would be 100% satisfied with SFCS.


----------



## Karma

I would absolutely love to see Symphonic Strings have 1/2 section longs like Loegria. Perfect for divisi


----------



## Spitfire Team

Karmarghh said:


> I would absolutely love to see Symphonic Strings have 1/2 section longs like Loegria. Perfect for divisi


 You'll have to buy SCS for that ha ha!


----------



## AllanH

Spitfire Team said:


> ... Regarding Mural developments, we'll have more news soon which will overlap with everything so informed decisions can be made.



Thank you for thoughtfully sharing your short-term road-map. I know Spitfire has a battle scar or two from earlier pre-announcements, so I know it's difficult to navigate our expectations. SPA already does teasers, but for me it would be even more valuable to know that "we're working on updating the entire symphonic line <details TBA ...>" For instance, if I had known of this development at the time of the symphonic brass release, I would likely have bought into it (or maybe I didn't catch it).


----------



## procreative

Honestly Christian I dont know how you fit it all in, I get you have a team there but seriously what with all the new products AND your professional life as a composer! Do you ever get any sleep?


----------



## Spitfire Team

procreative said:


> Honestly Christian I dont know how you fit it all in, I get you have a team there but seriously what with all the new products AND your professional life as a composer! Do you ever get any sleep?



Not with three very young children no!!!

Thanks for your concern, but you guys keep me sane... very sane and on the ball!

CH x


----------



## rmara

Being a owner of all BML mural line, I was also worried but Spitfire team rassured me answering my mails that they would offer the best access to the new library to previous owners. Considering what have been don eon Chamber Strings and Symphonic Brass I'm quite excited about the new coming library that should replace Mural. Honestly it's really a pleasure to see people so dedicated to their art as well as building rationalized tools of excellency which are delicate and of very good taste. I know the prizes of Spitfire are quite expensiv for people who are just trying to break in, but quality has its price.
The good thing with the modular was that people with low budget could build their libraries step by step. But having a rationalized library is so much more helpfull ... Anyway thanks to the spitfire Team, Paul, Christian, Harnek and all others for the quality of their work and the quality of the products they are building ...


----------



## ctsai89

Spitfire Team said:


> You'll have to buy SCS for that ha ha!



oh since that's mentioned, i have a question.

If i want divisi from a 60 player string section by using chamber strings, do i just straight up use 1 patch (4 players) of SCS as 1 divisi section or should i use the pitch trick to make it 8 players to play 1 divisi (8 players) of 16 player?


----------



## windyweekend

It took me some time to get bought into the 'big package' marketing and price model as I liked the idea of being able to be more selective and build a library over time. Having invested in SSB after holding off on the various brass modules, I'm so glad I did. You get a massive amount for your money and I'm hoping this coming product falls into a similar line. This new pricing model makes it so much easier to go straight for the higher quality products rather than having to settle for the Albions (don't get me wrong I own Albion ONE and love it, but the pure orchestral instruments just aren't up there with SSB). I totally see the need and market for Albions, but the quality of the SSB instruments is in a higher heavenly league altogether imo. I've not purchased any of the Mural line, but if the same level in quality follows here too then I'm all in.


----------



## Consona

I was just about to buy Mural Ensembles when I noticed there's no ensemble legato patch.


----------



## Spitfire Team

ctsai89 said:


> oh since that's mentioned, i have a question.
> 
> If i want divisi from a 60 player string section by using chamber strings, do i just straight up use 1 patch (4 players) of SCS as 1 divisi section or should i use the pitch trick to make it 8 players to play 1 divisi (8 players) of 16 player?



In my humble opinion use one straight up patch. With the hall ambience and the 'duplicate' effect of using more than one note with a sample, the minute you start doubling up SCS you won't hear as much of a difference between that and Mural. SCS packs a punch even given its diminutive size, so I'd divisi with the single patches.

Consona, we didn't do a legato patch as this would be a tutti legato which there is less demand for... The idea with ensembles is that it is a two handed compositional tool that is quick and easy for mapping stuff out on. If you want to get intricate with individual lines then it is commonly (we hope) understood that you need to plump for one of the Mural's more granular volumes.


----------



## ctsai89

Spitfire Team said:


> In my humble opinion use one straight up patch. With the hall ambience and the 'duplicate' effect of using more than one note with a sample, the minute you start doubling up SCS you won't hear as much of a difference between that and Mural. SCS packs a punch even given its diminutive size, so I'd divisi with the single patches.
> 
> Consona, we didn't do a legato patch as this would be a tutti legato which there is less demand for... The idea with ensembles is that it is a two handed compositional tool that is quick and easy for mapping stuff out on. If you want to get intricate with individual lines then it is commonly (we hope) understood that you need to plump for one of the Mural's more granular volumes.



thanks for explaining!


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

Hey there spitfire guys! are there still plans of getting the 'in action'-video of mural evolutions back online?
would you mind to give us a teasing sentence about what is going to happen to the leader microphone position in the near future?


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira

rocking.xmas.man said:


> Hey there spitfire guys! are there still plans of getting the 'in action'-video of mural evolutions back online?





Spitfire Team said:


> Technical issue with the video, we'll re-post on Monday, many apols...


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

well... since it is wednesday it might be possible they changed their mind and decided to do a new video or just drop that video completely for now.


----------



## Parsifal666

I'd love if there was a similar Evo sale, I really like what I've heard of the four collections. Something about Evo 3 has charmed me in particular, some very cool rhythmic things there.


----------



## mac

I really like what Spitfire are doing with their consolidated libraries, I always found their past library structures confusing. Life's confusing enough  

Once the rest of the range is included, I think I'll make the jump.


----------



## Hafer

Tomorrow at 7:00 PM methinks


----------



## benmrx

Come on Spitfire! I could really use some good news about now!!


----------



## windyweekend

Got a couple of questions am hoping someone with these already could help answer before I make a decision -

1. Which volume is best for some good staccatos - the shorts in vol 2 or the macatto attack in vol 3? I'm really tying to get something as close as possible to Iceni (I know the number of players and premise of these are different, but would love to know if you can anywhere close with Mural).
2. Do these support key switching in Cubase? I really like to keep my tracks down into double figures where possible and this is a great way to do it. Would be great to know if these volumes support it.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Daniel F.

windyweekend said:


> Got a couple of questions am hoping someone with these already could help answer before I make a decision -
> 
> 1. Which volume is best for some good staccatos - the shorts in vol 2 or the macatto attack in vol 3? I'm really tying to get something as close as possible to Iceni (I know the number of players and premise of these are different, but would love to know if you can anywhere close with Mural).
> 2. Do these support key switching in Cubase? I really like to keep my tracks down into double figures where possible and this is a great way to do it. Would be great to know if these volumes support it.
> 
> Thanks for your help!



I can answer you first question because I don't have the libraries but if you want that tight staccato / spiccato sound that Iceni has then you should not go for Marcatto. As I said before I don't have any of the Mural libraries but Marcatto is usually a longer note.

Yes they definitely support keyswitching. I don't know what's different about Cubase keyswitching compared to other daws but they do support keyswitching.

I would say go look at the YouTube videos from Spitfire about the products that will help answer both of those questions.


----------



## Hafer

Hafer said:


> Tomorrow at 7:00 PM methinks


OK, it was 7:11 PM 

Have fun!


----------



## Spitfire Team

http://www.spitfireaudio.com/press-releases/spitfire-mural-rip-press-release/ (<script class="js-extraPhrases" type="application/json">
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<div class="bbImageWrapper js-lbImage" title="bc90224c-972b-496a-a226-c1dd5e7b4339.jpg"
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http://www.spitfireaudio.com/press-releases/spitfire-mural-rip-press-release/


----------



## Daniel F.

Woah, amazing. Can't wait to for the walktrough and it seems like symphonic evolutions will be included only in EXP. That's also a very striking green color.


----------



## windyweekend

Okay. I'm sold. Just give us the price!!

Serious question - will this be for sale before Nov 17th or do I need to just cough up of the Modular Murals now?


----------



## ysnyvz

There is "Legato (fast)" in the table. Is it new?


----------



## Daniel F.

Iirc they had a intro price for SCS when that got released. If you want both the main + exp for mural you should get the package now since that's the best price you're going to get. But if you only want main wait.


----------



## Hafer

Daniel F. said:


> ... and it seems like symphonic evolutions will be included only in EXP.


To be precise: only in http://www.spitfireaudio.com/press-releases/spitfire-mural-rip-press-release/ (EXP #2), whatever that means.


----------



## windyweekend

Daniel F. said:


> Iirc they had a intro price for SCS when that got released. If you want both the main + exp for mural you should get the package now since that's the best price you're going to get. But if you only want main wait.



I want it all! Would like to make an informed decision before the 16th though rather than taking a gamble and a guess (followed by tears in an empty pint glass a week later).


----------



## pixel

I can't wait! Curious how much discount is for crossgrade from one library (maybe enough to get another ssd for SSS )


----------



## Hafer

windyweekend said:


> I want it all


In that case, most often their bundles are the way to go.


----------



## Daniel F.

windyweekend said:


> I want it all! Would like to make an informed decision before the 16th though rather than taking a gamble and a guess (followed by tears in an empty pint glass a week later).



Yeah what Hafer said. If you want it all you should go for the bundle that is currently going on that will most likely be the cheapest possible way to get everything. After the discontinue Mural and it becomes SSS instead you can buy main at the intro price, at least I think they will have an intro price, and then the exp. I don't think they did any sort of intro price for the SCS exp. I don't think the difference will be huge if you want to wait but if you really want to get the most out of your money then buying the bundle is probably the way. But I can't promise anything only Spitfire themselves can do that


----------



## dtcomposer

ysnyvz said:


> There is "Legato (fast)" in the table. Is it new?



Yeah it looks that way. I know they don't have it in the current Mural volumes (unless I've missed it somehow) Very nice update.


----------



## gsilbers

in sure this was answered but this new release has the same samples as mural, correct?


----------



## EvilDragon

Yes, same samples, and possibly some additional articulations (fast legato), but one mic position less.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

I was going to need that mic position...whatever it was...


----------



## psmk31452

Not sure if I should be posting this question on this forum or the Samples Forum...but here goes.

I realize that the pricing is not available for the upcoming Symphonic Strings, but I have all 3 volumes of Mural and the Ensembles. I do not have the EVO, so am I better off purchasing the EVO now and then I would receive the entire Symphonic Strings free...or wait till they release the expansion pack with the extra mics and EVO and purchase at that time?

Any advice?

Thanks!


----------



## Daniel F.

gsilbers said:


> in sure this was answered but this new release has the same samples as mural, correct?



I think the main version of SSS will be missing more than what EvilDragon said. The main version probably also lacks the CR, Lead, ST, G and mixed mics. Symphonic evolutions are also not included. But all of this will be released as a exp pack for the library so can always buy that later if you feel like you're missing it. But for the most part it's just a re-packaged / updated version of Mural, the samples are the same except for a few new arts it seems, like the fast legato.


----------



## Daniel F.

psmk31452 said:


> Not sure if I should be posting this question on this forum or the Samples Forum...but here goes.
> 
> I realize that the pricing is not available for the upcoming Symphonic Strings, but I have all 3 volumes of Mural and the Ensembles. I do not have the EVO, so am I better off purchasing the EVO now and then I would receive the entire Symphonic Strings free...or wait till they release the expansion pack with the extra mics and EVO and purchase at that time?
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> Thanks!



They always have a crossgrade option for those who already have parts of the series. Not sure if the crossgrade prices are released yet, but since evos won't be released until the exp I don't know how that's going to work. I think if there's going to be a price difference it's going to be minimal. I of course can't grantee that.


----------



## psmk31452

Thanks Daniel.

The post is getting lengthy and as I didn't read all of the previous pages...I was just wondering if I would be losing a little or a lot of money by waiting.

Thanks again.


----------



## pixel

SSS will have only CTA and incl. Mural 1,2,3 and Ensembles. 
Exp #1 will come with O,Cr,G,St, Broad, Medium and Fine Stereo Mixes. 
Exp #2 is 'Evolutions'


----------



## colony nofi

Daniel F. said:


> They always have a crossgrade option for those who already have parts of the series. Not sure if the crossgrade prices are released yet, but since evos won't be released until the exp I don't know how that's going to work. I think if there's going to be a price difference it's going to be minimal. I of course can't grantee that.


From the website - there's this FAQ type question which I think you can read between the lines on... (ie, that those who currently own all mural - like sable - will get the crossgrade for free) - 
*I ALREADY OWN EVERYTHING. WHY CROSSGRADE EVEN IF IT IS FOR FREE?*


----------



## pixel

psmk31452 said:


> Not sure if I should be posting this question on this forum or the Samples Forum...but here goes.
> 
> I realize that the pricing is not available for the upcoming Symphonic Strings, but I have all 3 volumes of Mural and the Ensembles. I do not have the EVO, so am I better off purchasing the EVO now and then I would receive the entire Symphonic Strings free...or wait till they release the expansion pack with the extra mics and EVO and purchase at that time?
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> Thanks!


_anyone who owns all 3 Mural volumes AND Ensembles will receive a FREE copy of the new library on the day of release._

Hard to tell does purchasing Evolutions will have any impact


----------



## JoeBarlow

pixel said:


> _anyone who owns all 3 Mural volumes AND Ensembles will receive a FREE copy of the new library on the day of release._
> 
> Hard to tell does purchasing Evolutions will have any impact



Right at the bottom of the page

"*As evolutions are not included in the new core product, ownership of this will not be discounted against it as part of the cross grade."


----------



## Calazzus

So full kontakt is required for the BML Mural series and SSS?


----------



## mickeyl

Sss will be kontakt player compatible as are all of their revamped libraries. It's a bug on the product page.


----------



## Thorsten Meyer

Calazzus said:


> So full kontakt is required for the BML Mural series and SSS?


Full Kontakt for BML Mural series, however free Kontakt player for SSS. 
Beside SSS supporting the free Kontakt player you are better off with the full version in the long run.


----------



## Calazzus

Any clue what the price will be for SSS?


----------



## Hafer

42


----------



## Jdiggity1

Hafer said:


> 42


Que?


----------



## EvilDragon

Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything


----------



## Vin

4 8 15 16 23...



Hafer said:


> 42


----------



## AllanH

as long as you have it on good authority that the price is $108.00 I'm in 

I also like $42, so maybe Spitfire will apologize for the inconvenience


----------



## gpax

Regarding purchasing options with the Mural RIP now, or the promo SSS price once revealed, I believe there was overlap during the last two RIP product transitions. I thought I read where that would be the case here? 

If SSS is like the two previous launches, there should soon be a big chart breaking down all the cross-grade scenarios, showing the RIP prices, the Promo prices for the new, and the regular pricing for the SSS (both standard and extended mics) after the promo period ends. 

Moreover, the RIP bundle scenarios seemed to calculate at the same as the full promo prices, as I recall, going from Sable where I lacked Ensembles, to seeing the numbers and just waiting until Chamber Strings came out, avoiding having to download something twice.

So that chart, which I hope will appear any day now, should demystify the when and where of all these options for some.

For first timers who do NOT anticipate needing extended mics, buying into a Mural bundle now may not make sense as you are essentially paying forward for the extended mics as well.


----------



## jononotbono

I don't own any Mural libraries yet but am definitely waiting for SSS and the Expansions at a future date. Can't really see the point in having retired libraries that are being replaced for something new and improved. They will just collect digital dust otherwise.


----------



## Karma

jononotbono said:


> I don't own any Mural libraries yet but am definitely waiting for SSS and the Expansions at a future date. Can't really see the point in having retired libraries that are being replaced for something new and improved. They will just collect digital dust otherwise.


Exactly. I feel like one of the important selling points in the Spitfire repackages is the update potential. Well, that and the high quality samples of course


----------



## ClefferNotes

Cannot wait to get this at Christmas! Last year it was a Sable Christmas, this year: Mural Symphonic Strings! :D


----------



## lucianogiacomozzi

Does this have to come whenever it's not financially viable?!


----------



## Spitfire Team

Heya chaps, technical issue now fixed, here's that in action with Oliver squaring up http://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/symphonic-evolutions/ (Symphonic Evolutions) (1st and last time available as a stand alone until 16th of this month) with our new Albion V:


----------



## mickeyl

Couldn't longer resist. The symphonic evolutions are mine, mine, mine. HARRR!


----------



## Saxer

Am I the only one who expected an "Action Video" after reading the header?


----------



## JeffvR

Is there any new content in this Mural Evolutions version? I bought the Mural bundle a couple of years ago and the content seems to be 25.8 GB. The website states the library is 28.1 GB.


----------



## mickeyl

IIRC when I downloaded the symphonic evolutions, it said version 1.1. Maybe you missed an update?


----------



## tack

mickeyl said:


> IIRC when I downloaded the symphonic evolutions, it said version 1.1. Maybe you missed an update?


Is it branded Symphonic Evolutions? I have Mural Evo and it's showing as 1.0.1 in the library manager, with no updates available.

Maybe those who buy it now are getting an updated "Symphonic Evolutions" as opposed to the original Mural Evolutions?


----------



## khollister

I'm out of town at the moment so I can't check. I'll be home tomorrow and will see what mine says - I just purchased it.


----------



## Spitfire Team

Just met jonotbono at a talk at Goldsmiths in London, lovely guy! Had a total epic fail at 'climax' of my lecture, top tip, never rely on iTunes for a presentation!

CH


----------



## Hafer

And there he stood, circling his golden axe, to prise some discounts out of you


----------



## wbacer

tack said:


> Is it branded Symphonic Evolutions? I have Mural Evo and it's showing as 1.0.1 in the library manager, with no updates available.
> 
> Maybe those who buy it now are getting an updated "Symphonic Evolutions" as opposed to the original Mural Evolutions?


My version of Evolutions says 1.0.1 as well with no updates available. Maybe Spitfire will chime in and clear up the version confusion.


----------



## procreative

Spitfire Team said:


> Just met jonotbono at a talk at Goldsmiths in London, lovely guy! Had a total epic fail at 'climax' of my lecture, top tip, never rely on iTunes for a presentation!
> 
> CH



Boy wish I would have known about this event, had no idea Goldsmiths held these! Wouldnt it be great if there were an events section on this site listing workshops and talks on the industry relevant to us?


----------



## Spitfire Team

I, a b s o l u t e l y agree, the number of times I've travelled the length of the country to do a talk and there's only three people and a barking wippet. I've done loads of things at the BFI where there were empty seats (before you ridicule, not just AFTER I finished talking) and that with amazing line ups of speakers. I'll email Frederik with this suggestion and if there is a dedicated new channel here Spitfire would defo promote via it... We've got lots of bits coming up.


----------



## aleniqe

hey there! I'm just wondering... what do you guys think will the new Symphonic string library cost? I am a student and I am thinking about getting the great deal of the murals now and then updating to the symphonic string library next wednesday...and I also read that I can't use an educational discount on a priduct which has a promotional discount already. What do you guys think? Wait or buy now? What do you think will be better for a student?
Thanks in advance?


----------



## mc_deli

Spitfire Team said:


> Just met jonotbono at a talk at Goldsmiths in London, lovely guy! Had a total epic fail at 'climax' of my lecture, top tip, never rely on iTunes for a presentation!
> 
> CH


"Hi, aren't you the kid in a sweet shop dude with his dad in Air who said the thing about using the fakes for the fast runs with the talkback on?!"

"Jonotbono!!! I'd never have known it was you if you weren't wearing the T-shirt. So great to finally might THE KING OF DIVORCEWEAR, you buy everything, right, brilliant. Don't worry, I won't tell the forum crew what you really look like"

In my mind, it went something like that...


----------



## jononotbono

Spitfire Team said:


> Just met jonotbono at a talk at Goldsmiths in London, lovely guy! Had a total epic fail at 'climax' of my lecture, top tip, never rely on iTunes for a presentation!
> 
> CH



Was wicked to meet you Christian. Loved the presentation and my favourite part was the lap top being turned around for the whole theatre to look at, the main lights go off, and you say "shall I make it brighter"? Haha!

Anyway, must carry on driving back to Isle of Wight now.


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

Don't want to steer too far off topic but thanks again for the talk today Christian - I didn't want to join the gaggle of onrushing composers post-talk as there was already a fair crowd by the time I could get out! 

As is the British way, you were very self-deprecating but the snippets you played were all great. I had hoped you'd mention the Triangle score though - I really liked that one.

I'm now off to google the specific bit of video we didn't get to hear...


----------



## Killiard

jononotbono said:


> Loved the presentation and my favourite part was the lap top being turned around for the whole theatre to look at, the main lights go off, and you say "shall I make it brighter"? Haha!



Here's the very moment...


----------



## CACKLAND

Wondering what SSS will likely cost, also? If it's better to purchase the BML Mural Bundle now and receive the free upgrade to SSS or wait and purchase it when released?


----------



## procreative

Spitfire Team said:


> the number of times I've travelled the length of the country to do a talk and there's only three people and a barking wippet.



Used to play in a band many years ago and we had several gigs like that in our early days. Played the Queens Hall in Bradford once and there were more bar staff than punters! Management wanted to lynch us!!

Then we would get home and open the fanclub mail (old school alert, pre email) "when you gonna play Bradford"...


----------



## BachN4th

A little unsure what to do, I have Mural 1,2, and ensembles. I want 3, but at this time do not want evolutions. The complete my bundle package would require I get evolutions. Is there no way to "complete my bundle" to get Volume 3, but not evolutions? Or is there no extra discount beyond the Volume 3 fire sale price for completing a bundle?


----------



## Spitfire Team

Hey Bach and others, if you're not sure which deal works the best hang on 'til we announce prices. There has been a delay this time 'round because there is an added layer of complexity which I won't bore you with. But it is a very non-trivial chapter marker for us which has had us with our slide rules double and triple checking so we get it right! But there will defo be an overlap where you can make a judgement call.

As always edu discounts can only be used on full priced products and bundles.

Best wishes, and thanks for kind words from the BASCA attendees.

CH


----------



## Arviwan

Thank you Christian, but ... when will you annonce it ??!


----------



## Spitfire Team

I have to consult my marketing team. As mentioned above, not only do we need to announce the pricing, we also tend to provide a table of workings which take time to double and triple check. Compromised by a further 'real biggie' which will become very apparent to you all in the forthcoming days... Real, end of the paradigm stuff for a company our size. Apologies for the further delay.

Needless to say, VI-Control is our Bethlehem so it will always be one of the first to know!


----------



## AllanH

@Spitfire - I truly appreciate your open communication and working to be fair to those of us who have invested already.


----------



## 1894

Well well, once more I`ve proofed too weak to resist and just being patient. While waiting for more details on SSS to come, I watched all the Mural Walkthroughs etc. over again and ended up pulling the trigger on the Ensembles and Evolutions.


----------



## CACKLAND

I'm about to do the same. Need to have more self control  This would show signs of an addiction...


----------



## Spitfire Team

I think it's good to also remember that whilst there will be some call to action on the release of SSS, provide you own one part of it (ie: 1,2,3,Ens) this will give you a sum to redeem against SSS in the future, aka a permanent xgrade path. Your component will track the value of SSS... So its defo an investment of sorts!


----------



## Rodney Money

Spitfire Team said:


> Heya chaps, technical issue now fixed, here's that in action with Oliver squaring up http://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/symphonic-evolutions/ (Symphonic Evolutions) (1st and last time available as a stand alone until 16th of this month) with our new Albion V:



Oliver definitely has a style, doesn't he? With the organ, brass, and now this demo, you mostly hear his mysterious, atmospheric whole-notes with evolving tones persona.


----------



## SoNowWhat?

I've been trying to keep track of this thread to avoid asking questions that have already been answered so apologies in advance if I've missed this one somewhere.
Looking at Symphonic Evolutions. I see it will be released in updated form as expansion pack two. Is there any requirement to purchase the other two libraries (Symphonic Strings and Expansion 1 Mics) to have access to the Evolutions expansion or will it be available to all.
ANNNND...
If I purchase BML Symphonic Evolutions stand alone now, would that be a free upgrade to the all singing all dancing updated release of Expansion pack 2 when the time comes?
(I hope that's clear).


----------



## CACKLAND

Good question, interested to know this as well


----------



## Hafer

SoNowWhat? said:


> Is there any requirement to purchase the other two libraries (Symphonic Strings and Expansion 1 Mics) to have access to the Evolutions expansion


Probably yes, because SA continuously says this is our one and only chance to buy EVO separately.


----------



## Arviwan

@ CH / Spitfire : No need to apologize Sir ... and, please, don't mistake my impatience for arrogance 
It's just that the "fire sale" will be over wednesday night, and we're still wondering about the best course of action about Mural / SSS ...


----------



## Baron Greuner

I don't have the time to read this thread alas. Is Symphonic Revolutions a new version of Mural? And is it going to be like the SCS version on Kontakt's main page?


----------



## Arviwan

I'm not quite sure to understand your question, but from what i gathered...
Mural will no longer exist; everything that was found in [vol. 1/2/3 + Ens] will be found in the new Spitfire Symphonic Strings with only 3 mic positions : Close, Tree, Ambient; additional mics will be in Expansion 1; Symphonic Evolution and new stuff will be in Exp.2; and yes it will be a Kontakt library !
If i did any mistake, please correct me


----------



## Spitfire Team

Hi there,

With these new products think of the expansion packs as camera lenses, so with the core pack you get your camera body and basic lense, then you can then buy any or all of the expansion packs we have slated to come out and accompany the core libs.

So with Mural you can buy the extra mics or just the evos, but you will have to own SSS... The main reason we do this is we're inundated with enquiries from newbies who find our range(s) massively complicated. So we're trying to encourage people buy the main piece of tech that gets you up and running before plumping for the more pro-end and niche tools... which will be growing next year... good times!

Good to hear you're busy Baron,

SSS page is here

http://www.spitfireaudio.com/press-releases/spitfire-mural-rip-press-release/ (Mural fires sale page and FAQs here)

Best.

CH.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Grazzi Christiano!

Yeah, the new Tundra library basically has me doing 15 to 20 tracks more or less exclusively with this sound. A great sound for media usefulness imho.

I got Mural when it came out, but didn't get every iteration of it, so a full combo on the Kontakt main page will be aces.


----------



## Hafer

Bought Evolutions today.

Sounds celestial, apocalyptical, fairylike, airy, melancholic, humble, boisterously and so much more. It's able to fit into many atmospheres (_pl.?_). But be careful, it has its own delicate, sometimes ticklish character which wants to be tamed - else it drags you at your nose ring withersoever Evolution wants to meander (already lost an hour or two to that ).

On a complete different matter: would be nice to have NKS support some day.


----------



## wbacer

Just in case I missed something in this long thread, my understanding is that since I already own Mural 1, 2, 3, ensembles and evolutions that SSS and both expansion packs will be a free upgrade, yes?
Is evolutions being updated as well or will the existing version be good to go?


----------



## Hafer

wbacer said:


> that SSS and both expansion packs will be a free upgrade, yes?


http://www.spitfireaudio.com/press-releases/spitfire-mural-rip-press-release/ (Presumably yes)


----------



## gpax

Spitfire Team said:


> Hey Bach and others, if you're not sure which deal works the best hang on 'til we announce prices. There has been a delay this time 'round because there is an added layer of complexity which I won't bore you with. But it is a very non-trivial chapter marker for us which has had us with our slide rules double and triple checking so we get it right! But there will defo be an overlap where you can make a judgement call.
> 
> As always edu discounts can only be used on full priced products and bundles.
> 
> Best wishes, and thanks for kind words from the BASCA attendees.
> 
> CH


Why is it when I explained all this a few posts back, rather eloquently too, nobody seemed to read it? : )

But you are the definitive, so thanks for the clarification!


----------



## Pixelee

Of all the Evo series, which one is Spitfire Team's favourite?


----------



## Spitfire Team

Pixelee, it has to be Olafur's for me CH


----------



## Ron Kords

I've just bought Mural 1 and Evo. For someone like me, at the thin end of building a library, getting 1 and Evo in the bag without having to buy full SSS and expansions means I can use saved money on other areas (probably Albion 2 / SCS) and return for SSS later. For those of you further along, I'm sure it's causing sleepless nights 

Whichever way you go, not getting Evos is an option you should dismiss immediately!


----------



## khollister

I thought I was fairly mature (meaning complete) in my basic orchestral stuff - LASS+LASS CS & HS for strings, BWW & VSL for woodwinds, HB & CineBrass Core+Pro for brass and HOP for percussion. I had Albion I, II & III. Then I got Albion IV & V, just got Mural Evolutions and now I'm considering buying SCS or SSS to dovetail better with Albion V and Mural Evo. Aghhhh!

My current thinking is SSS. While SCS is great, I already have the ability to do sparser string writing with the LASS divisi. I still think that LASS can pull off some special magic once you apply some processing for the tone. Mural/SSS would be a better fit with Tundra and Evo and give me a tone/texture in between the thick syrup of HS and the acerbic LASS.


----------



## SoNowWhat?

Ron Kords said:


> Whichever way you go, not getting Evos is an option you should dismiss immediately!


Yeah, I've come to realise that during the course of this thread. 
Thanks Spitfire 
Thanks Spitfire


----------



## colony nofi

Can everyone STOP buying evo's. I don't want us ALL to have access to the same beautiful secret weapons.....


----------



## Arviwan

Too late !


----------



## windyweekend

For those of us in the US we desperately need pricing sharpish before there's a coup here and the Pound starts going up even faster than it has been over the last week. Any chance you could update your shopping cart to accept bullion or diamonds?

(...tomorrow, please I beg you...)


----------



## Spitfire Team

Hi chaps, VI-C exclusive here:

The reason for delay is our entire site is due to be localised (ie you can pay in £,$,€) and all prices are now inc. VAT for UK/Europe

*SSS CORE PACK - Promo (25% off)*:

£525 / $589 / €599

*SSS CORE PACK RRP*:

£699 / $789 / €799

*Expansion Pack#1
*
£399 / $449 / €459

*NB ALL PRICES LISTED ABOVE INC VAT FOR UK/EUROPE SO WHEN FACTORING COMPARISONS WITH PRICES ON SITE AS CURRENTLY DISPLAYED, ADD 20% TO THOSE PRICES COMPARED TO THESE.
*
PLEASE NOTE CROSSGRADE PRICING WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR CURRENT OWNERS OF:

MURAL 1, 2, 3, ENS


----------



## blougui

Spitfire Team said:


> Pixelee, it has to be Olafur's for me CH


which is quite coherent with your taste for Sable ensembles


----------



## White Fire

May I ask how long the 'SSS' promo will last? I'm hoping for the remainder of this month.


----------



## Hafer

Spitfire Team said:


> (ie you can pay in £,$,€)


Being 1 GBP = 1,163 EUR at the moment, your offer is even better 

Besides, whenever you're going to bundle SCS, SSB & SSS, SWW, ... please
consider EXP-less resp. core-only bundles.


----------



## dhlkid

Will the Performance Legato patches be add in the future?


----------



## EvilDragon

So when can we (pre)order?


----------



## C.R. Rivera

Please forgive me for seeming dense here. I own Mural 1 and the ensembles. If I purchase 2 and 3, the new offering is offered free? Sorry for the question, as I am recovering from surgery and am quite in and out of brain function. 

Cheers

Carlos


----------



## pixel

Can I use educational discount during Promo time?


----------



## EvilDragon

pixel said:


> Can I use educational discount during Promo time?



Nope.


----------



## pixel

EvilDragon said:


> Nope.



Oh no!  Good that there's crossgrade


----------



## Daniel F.

pixel said:


> Can I use educational discount during Promo time?



I think you can tho. But it will not be edu discount of the promo price but on the normal price. But I guess you asked what EvilDragon answered if you can get edu discount on the promo price right?


----------



## pixel

Daniel F. said:


> I think you can tho. But it will not be edu discount of the promo price but on the normal price. But I guess you asked what EvilDragon answered if you can get edu discount on the promo price right?


Yes. It's worth try to squeeze price even more especially that black friday is so soon


----------



## AllanH

I can't seem to locate the cross-grade pricing. Is there a spreadsheet somewhere?


----------



## David Gosnell

AllanH said:


> I can't seem to locate the cross-grade pricing. Is there a spreadsheet somewhere?



The inference was that it would be made available before the Mural RIP pricing expires on Wednesday...


----------



## agarner32

I have volumes 1, 2 and 3, but not the ensembles library. I wonder if it will be cheaper to buy the Mural Symphonic Strings Ensemble now for cheap and get the free upgrade or pay the upgrade price for having all 3 volumes? It's about $166 for the ensemble library.


----------



## Vik

agarner32 said:


> I have volumes 1, 2 and 3, but not the ensembles library. I wonder if it will be cheaper to buy the Mural Symphonic Strings Ensemble now for cheap and get the free upgrade or pay the upgrade price for having all 3 volumes? It's about $166 for the ensemble library.




After the promo price, SSS is (in UK prices) £700 for the core pack + £400 for the Expansion pack = 1100. If you have have bought M1/2/3 for 1200, you have already paid more than SSS+Expansion costs, so I doubt that it will be a good idea to pay for the Ensemble now. But I'm sure those who know will tell you soon.


----------



## Tatu

Very good point from @Vik 
I'm in a similar situation.


----------



## dhlkid

I don't really need the ensemble patches, that is the reason I.did't upgrade my Sable to SCS, same case go.to Mural......


----------



## Living Fossil

White Fire said:


> May I ask how long the 'SSS' promo will last? I'm hoping for the remainder of this month.



Actually, i'd like to second this question....


----------



## Spitfire Team

Hi there, we'll be unable to provide the comparison chart spoken of as we're switching our whole pricing structure on our site to a new localised one where £s & €s will all be inc. VAT. If you want to buy a single instance of any of the Murals or Mural Evos I strongly advise you buy now. If you want to complete your Mural collection or indeed buy SSS without the extra mics and mixes, wait until SSS goes live at which point you'll be able to guage your x-grade price buy simply logging in and adding SSS to your cart


----------



## jononotbono

Is there an ETA on the SSS Exp 2? I'm loving that the VAT will now be included in advertised pricing. Although, this will make things harder for my partner to digest without now seeing the "cheaper at a glance" price!


----------



## Vik

Will the upgrade prices for people who have one or more Mural products be announced before the promo SSS price expires/before the current Mural products have been removed from further sales?


----------



## Spitfire Team

No, as I say, it is too difficult for us to show the various different comparisons with a total overhaul of our pricing policy that is due... hence why the pricing leak here is a VI-C exclusive. As I say, the current pricing is designed for those wanting to grab just one of the modules, or indeed the Evos. If you want SSS or you want to complete your Mural collection, wait for SSS to go live and this will be the more affordable route. Any more than one module (unless its Evolutions) and you should wait. I'm going to ask the office if anyone can come up with an equation so you can work it out!


----------



## windyweekend

Thanks for the advanced pack pricing. It's helped with my decision making for sure.


----------



## Vik

Spitfire Team said:


> As I say, the current pricing is designed for those wanting to grab just one of the modules, or indeed the Evos.


Thanks for the reply... the thing for many os us, I guess, is that it's hard to know whether we want to grab a module or two before we know what the price will be for our potential upgrade to SSS.


----------



## Lode_Runner

The unavailable button, it does nothing.


----------



## blougui

Spitfire Team said:


> No, as I say, it is too difficult for us to show the various different comparisons with a total overhaul of our pricing policy that is due... hence why the pricing leak here is a VI-C exclusive. As I say, the current pricing is designed for those wanting to grab just one of the modules, or indeed the Evos. If you want SSS or you want to complete your Mural collection, wait for SSS to go live and this will be the more affordable route. Any more than one module (unless its Evolutions) and you should wait. I'm going to ask the office if anyone can come up with an equation so you can work it out!



I'm not sure I get it (not english language native) : if SSS Core does not include every single mics options at the difference of BML modules, is SSS truly the cheapest way to get all the arts & mics ? I'm trying to do the maths but as you say, it's quite a thing 
Anyway anyhow, thanx for giving us some your time to sort this out and help us with decision making based on price, it's really appreciated.
Erik


----------



## SoNowWhat?

Thank you Spitfire team for providing the pricing details here. Much appreciated.

Apologies for being a complete pedant but, are there any details on how different currency options will be selected? Is it a user choice if not in UK, Europe or USA?


----------



## jamwerks

Spitfire Team said:


> As I say, the current pricing is designed for those wanting to grab just one of the modules, or indeed the Evos. If you want SSS or you want to complete your Mural collection, wait for SSS to go live and this will be the more affordable route.


Thanks for that info. Just to be clear, I have Mural 1 & 2, and in the end want SSS (so 1-3 + ensembles) with the added (stereo mixes) mic's. So it's cheaper for me to wait? Or is that only for those not wanting the extra mic's?

Also, do you know the availability timeframe for the stereo mixes? Thanks!


----------



## David Gosnell

Spitfire Team said:


> No, as I say, it is too difficult for us to show the various different comparisons with a total overhaul of our pricing policy that is due... hence why the pricing leak here is a VI-C exclusive. As I say, the current pricing is designed for those wanting to grab just one of the modules, or indeed the Evos. If you want SSS or you want to complete your Mural collection, wait for SSS to go live and this will be the more affordable route. Any more than one module (unless its Evolutions) and you should wait. I'm going to ask the office if anyone can come up with an equation so you can work it out!



A vague formula using percentage discount as an indicator for crossgrade pricing would be really helpful. To add a complication, I only use the Outriggers for all SA products in my template, so it isn't entirely straight forward to determine the best decision before tomorrow 



> But there will defo be an overlap where you can make a judgement call.


----------



## Spitfire Team

Oliver puts SSS through its paces!


----------



## Hafer

synthpunk said:


> Great video Oliver, bad shirt!



Great video again, but your remark has been noticed, @synthpunk


----------



## prodigalson

fantastic!! spied those performance legato patches!! can't wait to get my hands on those patches for Mural.


----------



## Ron Kords

Hi all, is Evolutions included in the core pack or not. I'm looking at the diagram and seeing that it is??

I just bought Mural 1 and Evolutions and was feeling pretty pleased with myself...now feeling a bit daft!


----------



## LamaRose

This library moves me... and this image keeps coming to mind:

CLOSEUP:

John Cleese
Right then... and this library
is _gratis_ for how long?


----------



## Hafer

Ron Kords said:


> is Evolutions included in the core pack or not


Not included. It's EXP#2



Ron Kords said:


> now feeling a bit daft


No need for that.


----------



## Ron Kords

Hafer said:


> Not included. It's EXP#2
> 
> 
> No need for that.


Thanks Hafer! 

Was just about to settle in and stare at the wall all evening


----------



## Vik

Hi! Spitfire Chamber Strings has parameters for portamento exaggeration and legato speed in the V1 Legato Performance, but from this new demo, it seems that SSS doesn't have these options. Will this come (soon)?


----------



## Kaufmanmoon

Sorry, can't see it on the official site. Any idea on the size of SSS yet when on a drive?


----------



## khollister

Vik said:


> Hi! Spitfire Chamber Strings has parameters for portamento exaggeration and legato speed in the V1 Legato Performance, but from this new demo, it seems that SSS doesn't have these options. Will this come (soon)?



Yeah, I also noticed that the SSS programming appears to not replicate all of the control and options that SCS offers in the legatos  I was hoping for something more similar in the legatos. Oliver's portamento line didn't even sound like a portamento - certainly nothing like the ones Paul demoed in the SCS walkthrough.

Curious why Spitfire decided to not replicate what they did for SCS (assuming that what we can see in Oliver's video is representative)?


----------



## EvilDragon

I'm not sure Spitfire ever recorded all dozen or so different legatos that Sable had for Mural...


----------



## khollister

EvilDragon said:


> I'm not sure Spitfire ever recorded all dozen or so different legatos that Sable had for Mural...



Good point - decisions, decisions.


----------



## prodigalson

well before SSS, Mural only had fingered, portamento, detache and fast run legato. It seems like they've now added fast legato and programmed entirely new performance legato patches for SSS a la SCS, which, to me, was the only thing holding me back from really using mural as a workhorse.


----------



## Saxer

Vik said:


> Hi! Spitfire Chamber Strings has parameters for portamento exaggeration and legato speed in the V1 Legato Performance, but from this new demo, it seems that SSS doesn't have these options. Will this come (soon)?


Seems to be the new Performance Legatos by AndyB. In SCS they look the same and are a new alternative to the existing legatos. The former Sable-legatos are the same as before. I think it will be the same in SSS. The new legatos are very playable!

*edit* saw prodigalsons post too late...


----------



## SoNowWhat?

@Spitfire Team - Really lovely piece Oliver. Excellent display of the libraries strengths.
Did I mention I'm sold?


----------



## khollister

Agree about Oliver's compositions - I love his style and enjoy all of his "in action" videos.


----------



## Vik

EvilDragon said:


> I'm not sure Spitfire ever recorded all dozen or so different legatos that Sable had for Mural...


I think Sable/SCS has more legatos than Mural/SSS currently has, but I see no reason why SSS wouldn't get them later - or even soon.




Saxer said:


> Seems to be the new Performance Legatos by AndyB. In SCS they look the same


Are you sure? I'm confused. Are there both Legato Performance and Performance Legatos?


----------



## dhlkid

maybe the strings size is difficult to control the speed


----------



## Saxer

Everything there...


----------



## mickeyl

Andy b.'s patches regulate the speed based on your playing, I bet the old-style patches are still available with SSS, so you have best of both worlds.


----------



## Vik

Interesting, thanks, Mickey L. I still think that a way to regulate the loudness of the portamento transitions are important, because the software doesn't know when I want portamento to be loud and when I want it to be quiet. Re. speed, there are actually times when one wants slow portamento, and I don't know how SSS regulates that. And I may be wrong, but if Andy B also made the SCS presets, why do they have speed control while SSS (maybe) doesn't?

"I bet the old-style patches are still available with SSS"

That's possible, but a main reason for me to update to SSS is that the old Mural presets have many issues with portamento speed/levels, and the controls (that are shown in Saxer's screen shot) often seem to have no effect at all.

Saxer, thanks... I just looked at your three screen shots, but they only confirm that Mural and SCS has Speed/Portamento controls. The screenshot I showed from the newer SSS UI didn't show these parameters. Still: maybe there are there, but in a different preset? Your SCS screenshots suggest that there are to similar-ish presets Performance Legato and Legato Performance, so we should maybe assume that the same is tur fir SSS as well. That would be great - unless they are based on the same kind of code as the original portamento scripting is Mural. But I choose to be optimistic about this. 
The reason I'm concerned about this is that I have Mural and had many unwanted situations in terms of speed/volume (for legato/portamento), but I have the feeling that Sable users doesn't have the same problems.


----------



## Saxer

The newer Performance Legatos are made for life playing and less detailed controlling. They work very good and contain legatos and shorts in one patch. You can play legato phrases that end on a tied staccato note which isn't possible in any other patch. So if you want more control over the transitions just use the older legatos. If you want fast speed composing use the newer ones. I think that's the reason both are still there.


----------



## Trombking

Thinking about buying either Chamber Strings or the new Symphonic Strings. I already own many string libraries, like Berlin Strings, CSS, Cinestrings and Mural Vol.1 and the Sable Ensembles. I own Albion One and Loegria too. What would be your advice which library I should get in regard to versatility? Both sound great so it's hard to decide. I compose both big symphonic pieces but also tracks which are more intimate.


----------



## khollister

Trombking said:


> Thinking about buying either Chamber Strings or the new Symphonic Strings. I already own many string libraries, like Berlin Strings, CSS, Cinestrings and Mural Vol.1 and the Sable Ensembles. I own Albion One and Loegria too. What would be your advice which library I should get in regard to versatility? Both sound great so it's hard to decide. I compose both big symphonic pieces but also tracks which are more intimate.



LOL - we are in similar predicaments. I own all the Albions, HS and LASS/LASS CS. Neither of us _needs_ another string lib but ... Since I'm in the US, it is hard for me not to take advantage of the pound/dollar at the moment and the intro price of SSS. I'm actually thinking of going in for SCS as well and semi-retiring HS and LASS (both of which I have some frustrations with)


----------



## khollister

Vik said:


> Interesting, thanks, Mickey L. I still think that a way to regulate the loudness of the portamento transitions are important, because the software doesn't know when I want portamento to be loud and when I want it to be quiet. Re. speed, there are actually times when one wants slow portamento, and I don't know how SSS regulates that. And I may be wrong, but if Andy B also made the SCS presets, why do they have speed control while SSS (maybe) doesn't?
> 
> "I bet the old-style patches are still available with SSS"
> 
> That's possible, but a main reason for me to update to SSS is that the old Mural presets have many issues with portamento speed/levels, and the controls (that are shown in Saxer's screen shot) often seem to have no effect at all.
> 
> Saxer, thanks... I just looked at your three screen shots, but they only confirm that Mural and SCS has Speed/Portamento controls. The screenshot I showed from the newer SSS UI didn't show these parameters. Still: maybe there are there, but in a different preset? Your SCS screenshots suggest that there are to similar-ish presets Performance Legato and Legato Performance, so we should maybe assume that the same is tur fir SSS as well. That would be great - unless they are based on the same kind of code as the original portamento scripting is Mural. But I choose to be optimistic about this.
> The reason I'm concerned about this is that I have Mural and had many unwanted situations in terms of speed/volume (for legato/portamento), but I have the feeling that Sable users doesn't have the same problems.



Ah - I think I get it now. Since I don't own anything other than the Albions, I didn't realize how these libraries were originally set up and how the updates worked in the case of SCS. I'm now confident that SSS will reflect the latest programming as long as the sample support is there (since Mural predates Sable I believe).

Sorry for kinda throwing Spitfire under the bus without all the relevant data


----------



## procreative

khollister said:


> I'm now confident that SSS will reflect the latest programming as long as the sample support is there (since Mural predates Sable I believe).



Sable (now SCS) came before Mural, it was Spitfire's first large scale commercial title and was released after the 3rd Albion came out. In fact it has way more options than SSS (or Mural) as they were over ambitious and promised a stack of free content updates (which I think they later regretted, but they still honoured).

SCS has many more Legato options such as Flautando, Tremolo and Sul Tasto.

Personally if I were in your shoes I would choose SCS over SSS as you already have a lot of large ensemble libraries.


----------



## khollister

Well I'm getting everything wrong here .


----------



## Spitfire Team

Hi gents.... here's the info you're looking for:


----------



## dhlkid

?

Already own Sable can get discount on SSS expansion pack?


----------



## C.R. Rivera

Howdy all, has anyone a clue how many GB will be required for SSS?


----------



## Vik

The lowest section has columns for Sable 1/2/3/4. Should that have been Mural 1/2/3/E?


----------



## jamwerks

Looks like if you're planning to need the extra mic's expansion pack, it's better to buy today!


----------



## benmrx

I'm wondering about the prices for the U.S. The cost in $ is considerably cheaper than if you took the cost in pounds and converted that to dollars. There's almost a $100 difference. It makes me think other spitfire products might be more affordable than I thought.

For example, the current SSS offer in dollars is $589. But if you take the current offer in pounds, £525 and convert that using today's exchange rate the cost is $653.

Are these U.S. prices fixed or will they fluctuate with exchange rates.


----------



## pixel

Yay! My wallet is ready! But I'm not sure does my hard drives are ready


----------



## EvilDragon

benmrx said:


> I'm wondering about the prices for the U.S. The cost in $ is considerably cheaper than if you took the cost in pounds and converted that to dollars. There's almost a $100 difference. It makes me think other spitfire products might be more affordable than I thought.



VAT is probably included in GBP price?


----------



## benmrx

EvilDragon said:


> VAT is probably included in GBP price?


Ahh. Good call. That might be it. Would love to have that confirmed.


----------



## khollister

EvilDragon said:


> VAT is probably included in GBP price?


In which case the US price is way too high based on exchange rates. If it does include VAT, it is considerably below the exchange rate price. I really need to understand this before SA switches the web site over since I have decided to purchase SCS - I would like to get the best price and I'm not sure if SA has decided to subsidize the $US prices or penalize us. It would appear I'm going to either pay more or less than I would today with the current 1.24 exchange rate.

If the $US prices are going to be low due to some currency hedge SA may have obtained, I may go on a major shopping spree tomorrow


----------



## Kaufmanmoon

It will be £525 plus vat. Always has been when I've bought stuff from them in the past


----------



## khollister

Kaufmanmoon said:


> It will be £525 plus vat. Always has been when I've bought stuff from them in the past


SA clearly stated that was inc VAT a couple days ago. If you look at the RRP and back out VAT, that puts the price at about the same as SCS in pounds - which seems to be reasonable. The question here is the Euro and $US prices, which seem to not track exchange rates and logical VAT application (Euro with, $US without).


----------



## Kaufmanmoon

khollister said:


> SA clearly stated that was inc VAT a couple days ago. If you look at the RRP and back out VAT, that puts the price at about the same as SCS in pounds - which seems to be reasonable.



Then apologies. Good news


----------



## pixel

It's on the website: 
*Prices include VAT for UK / EUR* http://www.spitfireaudio.com/press-releases/spitfire-mural-rip-press-release/?utm_source=Spitfire+MASTER+List&utm_campaign=d701ba5ae1-BML_Firesale_Ending_16_11_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_df4ead2b5d-d701ba5ae1-344034721

So this time VAT is covered for £ & Euro. But not for $


----------



## khollister

pixel said:


> It's on the website:
> *Prices include VAT for UK / EUR* http://www.spitfireaudio.com/press-releases/spitfire-mural-rip-press-release/?utm_source=Spitfire+MASTER+List&utm_campaign=d701ba5ae1-BML_Firesale_Ending_16_11_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_df4ead2b5d-d701ba5ae1-344034721
> 
> So this time VAT is covered for £ & Euro. But not for $



Then we are really getting hosed in the US - 525-VAT*1.24 (todays exchange rate) should be about $520, not $589


----------



## windyweekend

Should the last table (Expansion Packs) have Sable on it? Typo me thinks?


----------



## Hafer

khollister said:


> Then we are really getting hosed in the US


Can't see anyone's getting hosed. If you look at the table here, there's either no VAT included or everywhere. Because if you divide one currency by another you always nearly get the current exchange rates.


----------



## windyweekend

Hafer said:


> Can't see anyone's getting hosed. If you look at the table here, there's either no VAT included or everywhere. Because if you divide one currency by another you always nearly get the current exchange rates.



I calculate about $546 based on the exchange rate (and rising). I don't mind this being slightly higher - it's still way better than 6 months ago when M1 on its own was looking closer to this exact same price (even with those fancy mics).


----------



## khollister

windyweekend said:


> I calculate about $546 based on the exchange rate (and rising). I don't mind this being slightly higher - it's still way better than 6 months ago when M1 on its own was looking closer to this exact same price (even with those fancy mics).



you're right on the converted price (arithmetic error on my part). I notice the price table is no longer on the website


----------



## windyweekend

khollister said:


> you're right on the converted price (arithmetic error on my part). I notice the price table is no longer on the website


Any business receiving one currency then needing to convert it locally will get hit at some point down the chain with a conversion/handling fee, so they may have baked this into the price already which may explain the diff. They may be editing the Sable typo before putting it back up...


----------



## Spitfire Team

Sable is a typo, good spot, have requested a fix... To confirm prices include VAT @ 20% for Eur and Pound.


----------



## RCsound

Sorry but i have no time to read 15 pages....if i understand correctly, i have Mural 1, 2 and 3 but no ensembles, if i upgrade 17 Nov, the next expansion mics (that i already own) are free o i need to pay another 79€ (vat inc)?


----------



## emu

RCsound said:


> Sorry but i have no time to read 15 pages....if i understand correctly, i have Mural 1, 2 and 3 but no ensembles, if i upgrade 17 Nov, the next expansion mics (that i already own) are free o i need to pay another 79€ (vat inc)?


It's only free if you own 1,2,3 + Ensembles otherwise you have to pay 103 + 79 if you want the full package. So the cheapest way would be to buy ensembles now for 133 + Vat - that's what I did as I want the additional mics.


----------



## windyweekend

Spitfire Team said:


> Sable is a typo, good spot, have requested a fix... To confirm prices include VAT @ 20% for Eur and Pound.



We thrive on quality here (that's why we buy your products!)


----------



## Daisser

Hello all, a question about Mural (1,2,3+ens) for those who own Hollywood Strings as well. Although I've read and heard some of differences in audio between the two do you find in practice they compliment each other well or are mostly redundant? Do you find a large playability difference between the two? Basically are we talking about two excellent crayons in the box or one truly stands out.

I just bought Evo because it's completely different then HS. I was considering Mural 3 for the advanced techniques but at the current pricing its more generous for all of SSS if I ever want more then that.

I appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## dtcomposer

Daisser said:


> Hello all, a question about Mural (1,2,3+ens) for those who own Hollywood Strings as well. Although I've read and heard some of differences in audio between the two do you find in practice they compliment each other well or are mostly redundant? Do you find a large playability difference between the two? Basically are we talking about two excellent crayons in the box or one truly stands out.
> 
> I just bought Evo because it's completely different then HS. I was considering Mural 3 for the advanced techniques but at the current pricing its more generous for all of SSS if I ever want more then that.
> 
> I appreciate your thoughts.



I think you should ask this question in a new thread, or in a non-commercial thread. I'd be happy to answer, but I don't want to step on toes in a commercial thread like this. Maybe others will answer and I'm not sure if Spitfire cares either way.


----------



## Spitfire Team

Would be nice to focus on SSS here simply because we can't be drawn to comment on other devs...


----------



## khollister

OK - after running the calculator until my fingers bled and listening to all of the demos/youtube reviews I could find, I cracked open the piggy bank and got all of SCS (core+exp) and the complete Mural fire sale bits (which appeared to be cheaper than buying the new SSS+exp). Whew! Almost threw in SSB as well but I still love the sound of HB (which I own), so I put that off till next year. It appears that for us in the US, it is cheaper to buy today rather than wait on SA to do the currency conversion. It also doesn't hurt that the exchange rate is pretty low right now.

Now the download marathon begins


----------



## khollister

Spitfire Team said:


> Would be nice to focus on SSS here simply because we can't be drawn to comment on other devs...



Oops - I'm probably partly to blame - sorry.


----------



## Daisser

Spitfire Team said:


> Would be nice to focus on SSS here simply because we can't be drawn to comment on other devs...



I've seen some discussion about Mural on this thread and as this is related direcly to this sale I thought it might make sense here, my appologies. I will bring this to another thread as I don't want to derail the topic. 

On a side note to Spitfire, your stuff is amazing as I have some of it, I just need to be realistic in what I spend.


----------



## Spitfire Team

Daisser, totally understood and very valid questions, but ones we can't take part in on this part of the forum that's all..


----------



## EvilDragon

So when can we order?!


----------



## Tatu

My only issue is paying 100 and something for the ensembles (and never download them).. for samples I already own in a finer form.


----------



## SoNowWhat?

Tatu said:


> My only issue is paying 100 and something for the ensembles (and never download them).. for samples I already own in a finer form.


I always read your posts in Peter Dinklage's voice. Is that wrong.


----------



## Vik

Aoiichi said:


> BUY MURAL 3 + ENSEMBLES NOW: 213 (M3) + 133 (Ensembles) = 346


So that seems to be the best price - and then you'll become an owner of all Mural products, and therefore get SSS for free? I guess most M1+M2 users will do that then, but this means a lot of downloading maybe, if one needs to download all the samples twice.


----------



## Tatu

SoNowWhat? said:


> I always read your posts in Peter Dinklage's voice. Is that wrong.


Thank your maker for not hearing mine.


----------



## SoNowWhat?

Vik said:


> So that seems to be the best price - and then you'll become an owner of all Mural products, and therefore get SSS for free? I guess most M1+M2 users will do that then, but this means a lot of downloading maybe, if one needs to download all the samples twice.


Or, just buy M3 and Ensembles now then wait and only download SSS + expansion 1 when available.
(I've got space to stick things if I don't need them right now but I realise not everyone has that option, to say nothing of download quota limits).


----------



## Vik

Aoiichi said:


> I thought so, but it was too good to be true, @Vik : those prices do not include VAT, and if you attempt to purchase Mural 3 and Ensembles right now it will charge you VAT, bringing the total to £415... making ironically the most expensive option.


They'll charge VAT for M3 + E, but not for the upgrade?


----------



## Vik

Aoiichi said:


> Yes, the store is currently charging VAT on M3 + E. It appears that only SSS products directly are VAT included.


Sound like a glitch to me? 
@Spitfire Team ?


----------



## cjarv

Aoiichi said:


> There's no mention on the website that the current Mural offerings would be VAT included, just that they're discounted for a last sale, so I guess it makes sense. @Spitfire Team is this correct? I.E. If you try to purchase any of the Mural offerings now, you will be charged VAT on top of the quoted prices of £213(1,2,3)/133(E).


The price on the website shows without vat if you add it to the cart it shows plus vat i.e £255.60


----------



## cjarv

So I'm assuming the second exp will also cost £399 ?


----------



## cjarv

Since i Don't have any of the Mural libraries apart from evolutions there's no point in me getting any of the firesale offers as it seems there's only a few £ difference either way, plus double the libraries.


----------



## SoNowWhat?

cjarv said:


> Since i Don't have any of the Mural libraries apart from evolutions there's no point in me getting any of the firesale offers as it seems there's only a few £ difference either way, plus double the libraries.


Yeah, that was the conclusion I came to (picked up Evolutions at special price).


----------



## thesteelydane

@Spitfire Team: Will you have to own expansion pack 1 to be able to buy expansion pack 2 down the road? I didn't have the cash to take advantage of buying evolutions now, but when I get paid for my current gig, I'll get SSS and would like to get evolutions as well as soon as it's released.


----------



## windyweekend

I know this is all about building a better quality sounding product, which is the most important thing to us, but there's not a small part of me that will really miss those old vintage photos in Mural (I'm still pining over the old military BML Brass glossies). You just can't beat a rustic looking photo sometimes to give something an timeless feel...such is progress.


----------



## Spitfire Team

Heya windy... The photos you spoke of are the work of Roger Fenton a very early pioneer of photography who captured amongst others some amazing photos of Big Ben, and Buckingham palace under construction alongside some chilling images of the Crimean conflict... This is one of my very favourite books:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/All-Mighty-World-Photographs-Metropolitan/dp/0300104901/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1479364023&sr=1-4&keywords=roger+fenton (All The Mighty World)

I'm just sad I missed the exhibition at the Met.


----------



## tack

Agreed. The old backdrops and color schemes were just so terribly classy.


----------



## Spitfire Team

tack said:


> Agreed. The old backdrops and color schemes were just so terribly classy.



If you want classy, check out our new collections, I think our design team have knocked it out of the park on these!


----------



## BachN4th

Spitfire Team said:


> No, as I say, it is too difficult for us to show the various different comparisons with a total overhaul of our pricing policy that is due... hence why the pricing leak here is a VI-C exclusive. As I say, the current pricing is designed for those wanting to grab just one of the modules, or indeed the Evos. If you want SSS or you want to complete your Mural collection, wait for SSS to go live and this will be the more affordable route. Any more than one module (unless its Evolutions) and you should wait. I'm going to ask the office if anyone can come up with an equation so you can work it out!



Just want to make sure I'm looking at this clearly. I have Mural 1, 2, and ensembles. Volume 3 through the firesale would have been £213 (Converted to ~$264.55 USD). Had I bought that, I would have received SSS for Free, including the expansion with extra mics. I felt I was encouraged to wait, as per the above quote. Now I can upgrade to SSS for $162.53 + $123.90 (For the extra mics once the first expansion is released) so my total is now $286.48, ~$22 more.

I now see why I was confused, as this statement quoted below clearly suggests I should have bought volume 3 as part of the firesale to get the better value.



Spitfire Team said:


> Hi there, we'll be unable to provide the comparison chart spoken of as we're switching our whole pricing structure on our site to a new localised one where £s & €s will all be inc. VAT. If you want to buy a single instance of any of the Murals or Mural Evos I strongly advise you buy now. If you want to complete your Mural collection or indeed buy SSS without the extra mics and mixes, wait until SSS goes live at which point you'll be able to guage your x-grade price buy simply logging in and adding SSS to your cart



*Please *don't think I'm suggesting anything wrong with how you have presented the information - $22 isn't going to be a deal-breaker for anyone, so in the end whichever way I had gone wouldn't have mattered much. I make this post only to identify how I misunderstood, in case anyone else came to the same - albeit incorrect - conclusion.

I do look forward immensely to the woodwind repackaging we can only infer is coming (and hopefully Vol 2 arts like the brass got). I won't have the luxury of misunderstanding there, as I own them all already.


----------



## Tatu

BachN4th said:


> $22 isn't going to be a deal-breaker for anyone


Hehehe.. from what I've learned in my years at VIC, this might not be so true..


----------



## Lode_Runner

It's now 8:00am GMT, 17th of November 2016. My Add to Cart finger is starting to twitch, just waiting for that button to appear.


----------



## ctsai89

it's the 17th now. Are we waiting till when New Zealand is 17th as well? DAMN i just can't wait. Can't wait to finally grab the string library (SSS) that will beat the rest that had been dissapointing!


----------



## Lode_Runner

ctsai89 said:


> it's the 17th now. Are we waiting till when New Zealand is 17th as well? DAMN i just can't wait. Can't wait to finally grab the string library (SSS) that will beat the rest that had been dissapointing!


It's been the 17th in New Zealand for 21 hours now.


----------



## ctsai89

Lode_Runner said:


> It's been the 17th in New Zealand for 21 hours now.



oops excuse my uneducated ignorance.


----------



## ctsai89

12:00am soon in Hawaii perhaps?


----------



## windyweekend

Spitfire Team said:


> If you want classy, check out our new collections, I think our design team have knocked it out of the park on these!



Definitely give it a Frank Lloyd Wright kind of feel to the designs - Love em! Surprised to see HZ01 now in the Hybrid bundle (in a good way) but not RedCola. Would have thought this was the perfect complement to a trailer pack. Now I'm just being picky. These look great!


----------



## markleake

BachN4th said:


> Just want to make sure I'm looking at this clearly. I have Mural 1, 2, and ensembles. Volume 3 through the firesale would have been £213 (Converted to ~$264.55 USD). Had I bought that, I would have received SSS for Free, including the expansion with extra mics. I felt I was encouraged to wait, as per the above quote. Now I can upgrade to SSS for $162.53 + $123.90 (For the extra mics once the first expansion is released) so my total is now $286.48, ~$22 more.
> 
> I now see why I was confused, as this statement quoted below clearly suggests I should have bought volume 3 as part of the firesale to get the better value.
> 
> 
> 
> *Please *don't think I'm suggesting anything wrong with how you have presented the information - $22 isn't going to be a deal-breaker for anyone, so in the end whichever way I had gone wouldn't have mattered much. I make this post only to identify how I misunderstood, in case anyone else came to the same - albeit incorrect - conclusion.
> 
> I do look forward immensely to the woodwind repackaging we can only infer is coming (and hopefully Vol 2 arts like the brass got). I won't have the luxury of misunderstanding there, as I own them all already.



I think the SSS package has been the most confusing of these library simplification/repackaging efforts from Spitfire. The other releases I've been able to work out what is going to happen after reading their explanations, but this time I am very confused and have become more confused over time.

Yesterday, I wasn't able to purchase the Mural fire-sale products from the Spitfire site, even though I thought I was well within the timeframe they had advertised. I had held off deliberately to wait for the info they promised before the sale ends, but timezone differences I think became a problem, in that we were all asleep over here in Australia when that post was made.

So I scratched my head and thought, oh well, I must have been confused... but today it still doesn't make sense to me, because we in Oz are 11 hours *ahead* of the UK. I'm very dissappointed. :(

And now I look at the Spitfire website, I see $ instead of £ as the currency indicator for me. I'm assuming that is USD (ie. not AUD), so anyone outside of UK/Europe and the US now presumably purchase from them in USD. Also, their $ product prices on their website state they include VAT, but when I put something random in my cart and go to the checkout, it has VAT of $0, so assume the $ advertised prices on their website don't actually include VAT.

I try to compare the GBP to USD amounts given by Spitfire a few pages ago, and get even more confused, as the amounts don't seem to be close after conversion, even when dividing the GBP amount by 1.2 first to compensate for 20% VAT on the GBP amount. So using today's exchange rates...

The base SSS promo price: 525 GBP (incl. VAT)

525 / 1.2 = 437.5 (GBP promo price with VAT removed)

437.5 GBP = 545.67 USD (a difference of US$43.33 when compared to the US$589 promo price as listed a few pages ago)

The problem is, if Australians (and everyone else outside the UK/Europe) now pay Spitfire in USD, and are slugged with their own currency conversion overheads going from USD to AUD on top of the GBP to USD conversion, it seems like many of us loose out.

Or am I just getting totally confused about things?? Too many confusing things happening here for me to make sense of any of it now!


----------



## Vik

I'm also confused. I don't live in UK, any EU country or US, so I assumed that I could choose to pay in any of these three currencies?


----------



## pixel

Vik said:


> I'm also confused. I don't live in UK, any EU country or US, so I assumed that I could choose to pay in any of these three currencies?


I think that you need to have additional bank account with currency like pound euro or dollar to pay in these currencies. Otherwise your bank will exchange your current currency


----------



## Vik

pixel said:


> I think that you need to have additional bank account with currency like pound euro or dollar to pay in these currencies. Otherwise your bank will exchange your current currency


Sure, but which amount, or: what would that amount be based on? Pound? $? 

Currency rates are sometimes fluctuating a lot, and I think more people would buy into SF libraries if they could choose which currency to pay with - at least for those who don't live in the Euro/GBP/US$ areas. That's what I assumed we could now anyway (and that's not an unusual solution for us "outsiders").


----------



## pixel

Good question. To be honest I have no clue. Maybe £ because it's UK based?

Btw. Wake up Spitfire!  I'm the last who is going out of bed in UK so SSS should be available for long time before I came to my pc


----------



## windyweekend

And now my dryer isn't working. Hope they get the money machine up and running quickly before I find my wallet getting silly ideas to go buy something else less fun. Which comes first - my wants vs my needs?


----------



## Saxer

windyweekend said:


> And now my dryer isn't working.


No problem, SSS also has a 'dryer' setting in the close mics.


----------



## TeamLeader

Saxer said:


> No problem, SSS also has a 'dryer' setting in the close mics.


----------



## Thorsten Meyer

It has been released to previous full Mural owner. Someone ask about the size I have the download size.

Spitfire Symphonic Strings is ready to download

Downloading right now *94,24GB*


----------



## Thorsten Meyer

I got the usual email from Spitfire that "Spitfire Symphonic Strings is ready to download!". If you have Mural bundle you get an email from SA


----------



## Saxer

My Murals are incomplete (no ensembles) so no mail here... and at the website it's still unavaliable... and it's already dark again in London


----------



## Nuno

I know that you guys will be in honeymon soon with the release of SSS but i am so happy with my firesale purchase of Mural Ensembles so I can finally replace those overprocessed longs abd shorts from Albion One


----------



## pdub

Downloading now! Thanks!


----------



## Thorsten Meyer

Saxer said:


> My Murals are incomplete (no ensembles) so no mail here... and at the website it's still unavaliable... and it's already dark again in London


It will be dark here when the download has finished)


----------



## dtcomposer

Thorsten Meyer said:


> It has been released to previous full Mural owner. Someone ask about the size I have the download size.
> 
> Spitfire Symphonic Strings is ready to download
> 
> Downloading right now *94,24GB*



So that means that going by the brass you actually need double that space to download. Can anyone confirm that this is the case? I cleared out enough space either way, but maybe others won't realize and will have to re-download for several hours.


----------



## EvilDragon

That is always the case - downloader downloads archives which then get unpacked.


----------



## Hafer

Hey, look at the new http://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/bundles/symphony/ (Symphony bundle)!


----------



## micrologus

Vik said:


> I'm also confused. I don't live in UK, any EU country or US, so I assumed that I could choose to pay in any of these three currencies?


I live in Switzerland and I never paid the VAT. Now I must pay in Euro with European VAT?


----------



## windyweekend

Looks like we're up and running. Had the choice between a new dryer, buying my kids Christmas presents, or having SSS. Spitfire won of course (duh) and I dropped the cash for Symphonic Strings. For those of the socially minded type, please don't fret - my kids will get a bowl of broth and a nice bundle of wood like last year, but just think of the gorgeous music they'll get to listen to me make!


----------



## C.R. Rivera

For those checking the GB numbers on SSS, this is on the website:

147.6 GB Uncompressed .WAV
101.1 GB disk space required
202.2 GB disk space required during install


----------



## windyweekend

Small glitch on the site to be aware of - even though the site states $589, I got a confirmation page indicating it was 589GBP. Really hoping this is a typo, but something Paul, Christian and team probably need to look into before they get too many sales coming in..


----------



## Creston

Is there a x grade price for those who bought Evolutions?


----------



## mickeyl

Not for the main pack, I reckon it will be there for expansion b.


----------



## Spitfire Team

regrettably no as it is not included in the core pack... thanks for feedback here, we're trying to iron out bugs, incredibly complicated process... thanks also for the "symphony" spot... have taken it off sale whilst we rectify!


----------



## Spitfire Team

OK We're LIVE!!! Here's a fantastic new walkthrough by Paul:


----------



## jononotbono

Gotta wait till January to buy this but man this sounds so good.


----------



## windyweekend

Love the new vid. If you could prod someone to look at my purchase pricing issue I'd be grateful. Would be good to know if we're actually getting charged $589 or 589GBP.


----------



## Spitfire Team

Hi windy, its a typo, we just checked sagepay and it was made in USD... great spot though thanks...


----------



## Christof

Will there be a bundle (Brass and Strings) ?
How long will the discount last?


----------



## windyweekend

Spitfire Team said:


> Hi windy, its a typo, we just checked sagepay and it was made in USD... great spot though thanks...



Brill. Thanks for getting on this so fast. I've been nothing but impressed with the quality of attention your outfit pays. After some install issues with HZ01,02 etc last year I've seen the install process get better and better. Raised more than one eyebrow when I installed SSB last month and all it took was one click for the whole thing - impressive. Can't wait to download SSS now, though I'm interested to conduct an experiment in self discipline and see if I can hold off until December 25th. Cue zen like self control and immersive oneness...


----------



## Spitfire Team

delayed gratification, the key to any successful person.


----------



## Hafer

micrologus said:


> I live in Switzerland and I never paid the VAT


----------



## EvilDragon

DOWNLOADING NOW!!!


----------



## Øyvind Moe

I'm confused ... The storefront says 599 EUR inc VAT, but the cart says 599 net and no VAT. Same thing for other products (different number of course).


----------



## Polarity

Euros then?!
this is my firefox browser...


----------



## Thorsten Meyer

Polarity said:


> Euros then?!
> this is my firefox browser...


I see the same 599 Euro incl VAT
*edited: 
This is the normal price during the promo period


----------



## Spitfire Team

polarity sorry, what is you're question?


----------



## Spitfire Team

Gents, I hope this helps:

http://www.spitfireaudio.com/info/pricing_update_faq/


----------



## BNRSound

If I wouldn't have purchased CSS like two weeks before the announcement I'd be all over this. I have mural 1 so perhaps in a future sale I can grab this with a x-grade.


----------



## pixel

Downloading. 12h18m remaining. Looks like busy servers


----------



## ctsai89

BNRSound said:


> If I wouldn't have purchased CSS like two weeks before the announcement I'd be all over this. I have mural 1 so perhaps in a future sale I can grab this with a x-grade.



LOL sorry to hear that. CSS legato is just SO unplayable. I've got real high hopes for SSS


----------



## Spitfire Team

Hi pixel, our servers are scaleable S3 so busyness is not a factor. Best advice is to set it off and the "STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER"... ha ha


----------



## Polarity

Spitfire Team said:


> polarity sorry, what is you're question?


I read before it was a typo USD$ instead of GBP£... so I wondered why I was seeing Euros.
No problem, I realized now that what we see depends on where we are.
Italy and Euros with VAT included in my case: good, it's crystal clear and quicker now to know what I'm going to pay


----------



## Spitfire Team

great, thats the idea... we've switched Iceland, Norway and Switzerland to USD so they don't pay euro tax... again thanks forum for beta testing for us!!!


----------



## khollister

I would still appreciate hearing why the USD exchange rate you are using is so unfavorable compared to the actual current rate. The Euro exchange rate appears accurate. Unfortunately we are now getting killed on price in the US (actually anywhere outside of the EU & UK) compared to yesterday. There have been several inquiries about this in this thread but SA has been silent.

Also, did you lower prices on most of the Definitive range?


----------



## Øyvind Moe

Spitfire Team said:


> great, thats the idea... we've switched Iceland, Norway and Switzerland to USD so they don't pay euro tax... again thanks forum for beta testing for us!!!


Ahh ... Makes more sense now! (Might also want to change the store display to "excl VAT" instead of "incl VAT" in those cases, although I guess it could be argued that at 0% charge the price does include VAT ... )


----------



## benmrx

khollister said:


> I would still appreciate hearing why the USD exchange rate you are using is so unfavorable compared to the actual current rate. The Euro exchange rate appears accurate. Unfortunately we are now getting killed on price in the US (actually anywhere outside of the EU & UK) compared to yesterday. There have been several inquiries about this in this thread but SA has been silent.
> 
> Also, did you lower prices on most of the Definitive range?



Yeah, everything at Spitfire just got _quite a bit more expensive for US_ as compared to yesterday. Don't want to get too OT, but yesterday Albion One would have cost me $397, but today it's now $450.


----------



## gjelul

Got the strings -- thank for making this possible.

Woodwinds next please.


----------



## Øyvind Moe

benmrx said:


> Yeah, everything at Spitfire just got _quite a bit more expensive for US_ as compared to yesterday. Don't want to get too OT, but yesterday Albion One would have cost me $397, but today it's now $450.


They made all the Albions the same price. They used to be GBP 319-329-339-349-329 (ex VAT), now they're all GBP 332,50 ex VAT. So some of them actually got cheaper. I think it makes sense to have them all the same price. But this isn't strictly on topic for this thread.


----------



## benmrx

Øyvind Moe said:


> They made all the Albions the same price. They used to be GBP 319-329-339-349-329 (ex VAT), now they're all GBP 332,50 ex VAT. So some of them actually got cheaper. I think it makes sense to have them all the same price. But this isn't strictly on topic for this thread.


OK, but even with that the Albions should then be $413 instead of $450? And yeah, discussing Albions is a bit off topic, but discussing the new pricing scheme for various currencies feels ON topic.


----------



## pdub

Even still at £332.50 at today's rate is $413.47 so $449 is quite a difference.


----------



## pdub

Yeah what he said


----------



## Mucusman

benmrx said:


> Yeah, everything at Spitfire just got _quite a bit more expensive for US_ as compared to yesterday. Don't want to get too OT, but yesterday Albion One would have cost me $397, but today it's now $450.



Actually, some things for us in the USA (at least) went up (Albion V, the Labs) while others, I've noticed, went down (Union Chapel Organ).


----------



## benmrx

Mucusman said:


> Actually, some things for us in the USA (at least) went up (Albion V, the Labs) while others, I've noticed, went down (Union Chapel Organ).


Yeah, it all makes me a bit nervous to buy anything right now. It feels like most of the libraries I wanted all went up considerably. Purchasing Albion One and V is around $100 more today than it was yesterday, but the SoundDust Bundle is around $13 cheaper.


----------



## Spitfire Team

In case you missed this earlier, please see here:

http://www.spitfireaudio.com/info/pricing_update_faq/


----------



## gpax

One other confusing thing to sort out in the new system, at least that I encountered, is that the order confirmation I received showed dollars in the line item row, and the exact numerical value in pounds in the Totals. Online, it only showed me pounds right after purchasing.


----------



## Vastman

trying to fit this in my budget... No discount for owning one mural product? I have ensembles but checkout price is $589


----------



## mickeyl

Vastman said:


> trying to fit this in my budget... No discount for owning one mural product? I have ensembles but checkout price is $589



I didn't see it in the cart either, but it was subtracted from my price anyways. If that doesn't happen for you, give them a call.


----------



## ReversedLogic

Spitfire Team said:


> great, thats the idea... we've switched Iceland, Norway and Switzerland to USD so they don't pay euro tax... again thanks forum for beta testing for us!!!



Can you switch Canada to GBP? Yesterday it would have cost $550 to buy Albion V, today it's over $600 if you do the US to CAD conversion.


----------



## meradium

Strongly considering to pull the trigger... However, how are current owners dealing with the missing Staccato articulations?

For those who have both SCS and Mural/SSS, were you able to compensate for the missing artic. or are they still sounding way too difficult?

Any thoughts on this?


----------



## krops

Question: how many of you would see SSS as essential if you already own Cinestrings Core and Solo?


----------



## Vastman

mickeyl said:


> I didn't see it in the cart either, but it was subtracted from my price anyways. If that doesn't happen for you, give them a call.


Curious what u paid Mickey...


----------



## mickeyl

Vastman said:


> Curious what u paid Mickey...



€503.36 regular price without TAX (I have a EU VAT ID) -€86.68 (Ensembles Discount) = €416.68


----------



## 5Lives

The pricing update FAQ doesn't really address why the exchange rate for the USD price is much higher than the true exchange rate compared to GBP? Like it would be cheaper for me to pay the GBP rate and ask for VAT back somehow.


----------



## Vastman

Thanks, Mickey! That $100 off really helps! I might just be able to do it now!!! They ARE beautiful sounding!!! Wish we'd gotten one positional stereo mix out of the deal but guess I'll start saving again
after xmas! 

When is the last day for intro pricing? Not listed on website, although I'm sure this has been discussed many times... I'm mobile at the moment and hard to skim


----------



## higgs

Will you guys please pause your downloading & hogging all the bandwidth so I can have it? Really selfish guys, gol.


----------



## mickeyl

I don't think it has been mentioned yet. And it's not on their website either.


----------



## EvilDragon

I don't seem to have any problems here... already 37 gigs downloaded and I've been at it for like 2.5-3 hours


----------



## Spitfire Team

Hi 5Lives... what dollar customers are now paying is a fixed price that will not change with market fluctuations. A new chapter in our history. I won't bore you all with who pays what and where (ie where bank applies rates etc etc), needless to say you'll see that our localisation policy is incredibly fair compared to our other UK competitors... We have studied this over two years and planned it for a whole 12 months... Did we expect Brexit, did we expect Trump? No we didn't... So its a weird time... But for people paying in dollars... the price advertised is the price tomorrow... the price in UK / Euros is the price you pay when you check out... Different from how you've dealt with Spitfire over the last 10 years yes, of-course... worse, no.... fairer, yes... You don't need to buy SSS today, it'll be the same price tomorrow....

I have a major caveat here... This is me CH, not an expert speaking here... so I'm sure many of you will be able to pick holes in my argument. However this isn't something Paul and I just cooked up... we have employed incredibly expensive accountants to audit this, and now have a large and INCREDIBLY impressive in-house accounts department headed up by an FC who has an incredible track record... This is a very carefully worked out change in our story... Paul and I have scrutinised every single corner of this... We truly believe this is the best, fairest long term solution... 

All the best

CH


----------



## higgs

EvilDragon said:


> I don't seem to have any problems here... already 37 gigs downloaded and I've been at it for like 2.5-3 hours


I was just being silly, impatient, and excited.  

"Defo" excited to take this on holiday starting tomorrow.


----------



## benmrx

Spitfire Team said:


> In case you missed this earlier, please see here:
> 
> http://www.spitfireaudio.com/info/pricing_update_faq/



I get all this, what I don't get is why quite a few items in your shop are considerably more expensive for the $ then they were yesterday? 



5Lives said:


> The pricing update FAQ doesn't really address why the exchange rate for the USD price is much higher than the true exchange rate compared to GBP? Like it would be cheaper for me to pay the GBP rate and ask for VAT back somehow.



It's all very strange IMO.


----------



## Spitfire Team

because yesterday you were paying in £s against a remarkably low exchange rate... which your bank would then charge you a markup against... today you're paying a fixed rate with no markup from your bank... but the price you're paying today is the same one you're likely to be asked to pay in 6 months time... we absorb all fluctuations, so you don't need to monitor exchange rates by the hour to get a good Spitfire deal... Albion x is y... we're here when you're ready to buy it.

ANYHOWS! is it fair to say that our Symphonic Strings thread has now been well and truly derailed by this localisation issue.... Can we swing this to a different thread and maybe strike up convos about working with an awesome set of samples featuring an enormous group of amazing musicians.... who.... and here comes the crunch!!! EARN ROYALTIES OUT OF YOU BUYING THEIR LIBS.... EVERYONE'S A WINNER!!!

ok.... Paul has now asked me to tuck my children in and have a glass of wine...

sweet (Chablis) dreams all...

CH


----------



## Vastman

benmrx.... It's the Trump effect... he's instantly made us so "great again" that we can afford to pay more...

Or maybe it's the rest of the world punishing us for allowing election theft to run rampent...

Either way, what it boils down to is... for the next 4 years we're "F'd" 

Tears all around... 

And as CH notes... in my briefer words... it is what it is... for better or worse...
so, personally I'll deal with it and wait for the first info from one who's downloaded and created something lovely...


----------



## ReversedLogic

CH[/QUOTE]


Spitfire Team said:


> because yesterday you were paying in £s against a remarkably low exchange rate... which your bank would then charge you a markup against... today you're paying a fixed rate with no markup from your bank... but the price you're paying today is the same one you're likely to be asked to pay in 6 months time... we absorb all fluctuations, so you don't need to monitor exchange rates by the hour to get a good Spitfire deal... Albion x is y... we're here when you're ready to buy it.
> 
> ANYHOWS! is it fair to say that our Symphonic Strings thread has now been well and truly derailed by this localisation issue.... Can we swing this to a different thread and maybe strike up convos about working with an awesome set of samples featuring an enormous group of amazing musicians.... who.... and here comes the crunch!!! EARN ROYALTIES OUT OF YOU BUYING THEIR LIBS.... EVERYONE'S A WINNER!!!
> 
> ok.... Paul has now asked me to tuck my children in and have a glass of wine...
> 
> sweet (Chablis) dreams all...
> 
> CH




From Canada I still have to pay bank markup for USD conversion but now you have us exchanging against a worse price... Yesterday it would have cost 550 for Albion and today it's over 600, hard pill to swallow - seems like an odd choice and frustrating.


(edit: grammar)


----------



## benmrx

Loo


Vastman said:


> benmrx.... It's the Trump effect... he's instantly made us so "great again" that we can afford to pay more...
> 
> Or maybe it's the rest of the world punishing us for allowing election theft to run rampent...
> 
> Either way, what it boils down to is... for the next 4 years we're "F'd"
> 
> Tears all around...



It does seem crazy that this price hike for the US dollar (at Spitfire...., not the actual exchange rate) has already been associated with Trump. Can we at least wait to get "F'd" until he's sworn in? Apparently we're "F'd' for the next 4 years and two months.



ReversedLogic said:


> From Canada I still have to pay bank markup for USD conversion but now you have us exchanging against a worse price now... Yesterday it would have cost 550 for Albion and today it's over 600, hard pill to swallow - seems like an odd choice and frustrating.



Basically, if you have to go through the $, you're paying substantially more now, and will continue to as Spitfire has decided to use their own 'fair' exchange rate. End of story. Warning to Spitfire though....., you might regret this decision in a year or two.


----------



## Hafer

Just bought SSS. Now that SSS is history, lets move on: What about Woodwinds? 

@Spitfire Team seems there's a wrong currency sign attached to the totals of your order confirmation. The sums are correct, the signs aren't. So much for employing incredible expensive accountants 

SCNR, Hafer

PS regarding having a glass of whine after a surely long, arduous day: cheers!


----------



## Spitfire Team

This is me making a stupid remark guys... sorry. However Brexit has made for a remarkable economic situation... 

But its very basic... if not a really big deal...

We've localised our business and we've done it by observing best practise and with you all in mind... So today is better for some that it was yesterday, for some it is less good. But you all have to admit us advertising non-vat £ prices wasn't going to last forever... surely being localised is better long term... 

Because tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day it will be the same for everyone. Now is today worse for you say this time last year.... no it is A LOT better... 

I'm going to take the advice of my wife and withdraw, whilst also asking that this thread is about SSS and the wonderful musicians and their commitments... I look forward to reading feedback on that.

Much love.

CH


----------



## Spitfire Team

Just a quick note from me, the new static USD price now, versus the £ converted USD price 6 weeks ago, is lower.

Currencies are currently pretty erratic. 

All best!

Paul


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

A bit sad to see the thread taking this weird turn.


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

Ok guys, please respect that this is indeed a commercial thread for Spitfire Audio.
As CH said its not an exchange rate topic. Spitfire audio can't be held respondible for Trumps election nor local currency fluctuations.
Indeed start a seperate thread if you like, but let SA have this topic about SSS.

And CH, what a respectful thing to do for the players, giving them royalties.
Or is it in a similar manner as Spotify does ? 
Does this count for all of SA libs? I am in the market for SCS namely.

Oups, also at risk to derail....


----------



## cadenzajon

If you want to buy bypass Spitfire's USD conversion, purchase from timespace.com. They accept Paypal for the currency transfer which gives you a fair, current rate for many international currencies. I've bought several Spitfire libraries from them and always been very pleased.

http://www.timespace.com/product/SFSS-120/spitfire_audio_symphonic_strings.html


----------



## Spitfire Team

where something at the heart of the spitfire creed is concerned, I'll never consider it a derailment...

Paul and I, ten years ago, day one, went into Air, and I said, we have to look after the musicians.

A decade later, a team of nearly a dozen people paying out royalties direct and via fixers to over 300 contributors every six months...

A new industry model that we've been plugging away at, and are very proud of.... do we telegraph it.... no, why? because the joint respect we share for musicians comes out in their contributions... see Albion V.... a remarkable set of contributions from people we respect hugely...

Much love.

CH


----------



## EvilDragon

Paypal's currency conversion rate is anything but fair.


----------



## OleJoergensen

I watched the walkthrough, it just sounds wonderful. I feel like Im in Love .
Anyone who knows how long the generous intro sail will be?


----------



## Hafer

OleJoergensen said:


> I watched the walkthrough


ETA to my very personal walkthrough: 2h 07m


----------



## Spitfire Team

Bring it on Hafer.... you gonna screencast?


----------



## windyweekend

Hafer said:


> ETA to my very personal walkthrough: 2h 07m


ETA to my own very personal walk through 38 days...(discipline windy, discipline)


----------



## bbunker

Just a recommendation - I'd put this on a new thread, but it's very brief. If you use the language 'inc. VAT,' you might put the amount of VAT included in that language as well (like, say inc. $0 VAT), or you'll have people like me calculating 19% in their heads, getting excited, and then very confused. And a little disappointed.


----------



## windyweekend

Spitfire Team said:


> because yesterday you were paying in £s against a remarkably low exchange rate... which your bank would then charge you a markup against... today you're paying a fixed rate with no markup from your bank... but the price you're paying today is the same one you're likely to be asked to pay in 6 months time... we absorb all fluctuations, so you don't need to monitor exchange rates by the hour to get a good Spitfire deal... Albion x is y... we're here when you're ready to buy it.
> 
> ANYHOWS! is it fair to say that our Symphonic Strings thread has now been well and truly derailed by this localisation issue.... Can we swing this to a different thread and maybe strike up convos about working with an awesome set of samples featuring an enormous group of amazing musicians.... who.... and here comes the crunch!!! EARN ROYALTIES OUT OF YOU BUYING THEIR LIBS.... EVERYONE'S A WINNER!!!
> 
> ok.... Paul has now asked me to tuck my children in and have a glass of wine...
> 
> sweet (Chablis) dreams all...
> 
> CH


This is still way better then things were a year ago, so I'm grateful for one. You get what you pay for. You want the best, expect to pay top dollar for it. If $40 was going to make me consider going somewhere else, then I've probably lost the point of looking at Spitfire in the first place.


----------



## Spitfire Team

thanks bbunker, as said before this is 2 years of consultancy, and a year of prep, and us just looking at hundreds of other sites to establish best practise... Is it different from yesterday, yes, is Spitfire more in line with other operators in this space.... yes. So sorry again for a big (I have to say I did mention the work "paradigm shift" a couple of days ago) change in our practise.... but again, out of respect to the contributors, can we now return the thread to SSS?


----------



## pixel

Yes, walk through video is great. Gave me instant ideas to my actual piece. Just...8... hours


----------



## Hafer

Spitfire Team said:


> Bring it on Hafer



Nah, going to take the Gollum approach instead, biting everyone's finger off, who tries to take off my preciou SSS ....


----------



## Christof

The question about the duration of the intro discount has been asked many times now,but no response so far.


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

Christof said:


> The question about the duration of the intro discount has been asked many times now,but no response so far.


Somewhere in this thread it has been mentioned I believe to be 30 november...this year :D

from their website:
On the 17th November 2016 _Spitfire Symphonic Strings_ will be launched at a promotional price lasting until the end of November


----------



## khollister

Downloading now - I'm running at about 75-95 mbps, so another couple hours should do it. Getting ready to watch the walkthrough now.


----------



## Spitfire Team

Christof said:


> The question about the duration of the intro discount has been asked many times now,but no response so far.



Hi, as always with us we run to end of month... I'll look at making this clearer...

Best.

CH


----------



## ctsai89

higgs said:


> Will you guys please pause your downloading & hogging all the bandwidth so I can have it? Really selfish guys, gol.



Same here man. YALL need to pause so I can make my midi mockup of Scriabin's poem of ecstasy asap!!


----------



## tigersun

I'd rather just go directly through Spitfire, but I'm in the US and I'm not going to fret over $40. Feel bad for the CAN/AUS guys though. 



Silence-is-Golden said:


> Somewhere in this thread it has been mentioned I believe to be 30 november...this year :D
> 
> from their website:
> On the 17th November 2016 _Spitfire Symphonic Strings_ will be launched at a promotional price lasting until the end of November



Oh man, I wish November lasted one more day then I would have one more paycheck to help soften the blow. Oh well I can return these clothes I bought last week. Who needs clothes, right?


----------



## OleJoergensen

Spitfire Team said:


> Hi, as always with us we run to end of month... I'll look at making this clearer...
> 
> Best.
> 
> CH


Thank you.


----------



## higgs

About 14GB left. It really is & has been cooking pretty fast, FYI.


----------



## ClefferNotes

@Spitfire Team Fabulous work yet again from you all. I wouldn't expect anything less. SSS sounds spectacular from the walkthrough video. And the amount of respect you show towards the musicians and people involved is inspiring. Keep up the awesome work and I will do my very best to give you my full support! Thanks so much!


----------



## Spitfire Team

Cleffer, thanks so much... we're all so weary and tired, this kind of comment makes so much difference... CH


----------



## dtcomposer

I finished downloading and played around with the performance legato patch a bit. It is much much better than the Mural version. Smooth, more agile if needed, and more consistent at least on my first pass at using it in all instruments. They also added a "Sul G/C" Legato option for everything but Basses which I don't think was there before, and is very rich and lovely. I can see myself using that all over the place. 

All the other articulations are there from the Murals, and they line up with the UACC without changes. Looking forward to the new mic releases as well, but I just wanted to say thanks to Spitfire for a very generous (free!) upgrade from Mural complete. 

After my experience with the Brass upgrade I didn't hesitate to immediately replace Mural with SSS.


----------



## ClefferNotes

Spitfire Team said:


> Cleffer, thanks so much... we're all so weary and tired, this kind of comment makes so much difference... CH


@Spitfire Team You are more than welcome, I completely understand how knackered you all must be. I can't wait to have this beauty by my side alongside all my other Spitfire libs, I honestly think they're the best investments I have ever made (I have also told Blake this many times, he's probably sick of me saying it by now!) Keep it up!!


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

It's weirdly exciting to be opening patches from the library tab instead of quick launch! Working great here, and the organisation and patch layout is a huge improvement for me.


----------



## higgs

Great stuff @Spitfire Team!

Back in the olden times, I made a couple of portable Mural and Sable folders to carry on the laptop - just the CTAO patches and requisite samples. I failed to make a similar portable set before the expansion for SCS. Sooooo, I'm wondering if you folks might make (as was done before, but for which library I can't remember...HZ Piano?) a video or an image of the file structure to make lite versions?

I had my Sable Lite folder down to < 100GB, which I might have made even Lite-er with a Tree only patch. You blokes seem to sketch a lot with just the trees. A tree only patch would be heaven.

Not to get greedy or ignore all the awesome that you've been dishing out - just a wish...


----------



## ctsai89

higgs said:


> About 14GB left. It really is & has been cooking pretty fast, FYI.



screw off man. Now i know who's the one that's been stealing all the bandwidth!! i only got 20Gb dled :(


----------



## higgs

ctsai89 said:


> screw off man. Now i know who's the one that's been stealing all the bandwidth!! i only got 20Gb dled :(


Aww man, I'm sorry to hear about your strife. FWIW, my download went smoovely, and so I've freed up some BW for you. It's the least I could do, and I always try to do the least I can.


----------



## Øyvind Moe

higgs said:


> It's the least I could do, and I always try to do the least I can.


LOL


----------



## Seycara

@Spitfire Team Hi there. I signed up for a 30% EDU SSS discount but the check out only shows 41$ taken off; is this a bug? Let me know and thanks


----------



## jononotbono

Seycara said:


> @Spitfire Team Hi there. I signed up for a 30% EDU SSS discount but the check out only shows 41$ taken off; is this a bug? Let me know and thanks



The Edu discount is 30% off the RRP and not off the promo price.


----------



## Seycara

jononotbono said:


> The Edu discount is 30% off the RRP and not off the promo price.


Oh really? This wasn't the case before for SSB and SCS. Maybe they changed it?


----------



## tack

It's about as fast as I can go.






My biggest complaint is the frequent pause to validate downloaded parts. It interrupts the download at that point. I suspect I'd be able to download nontrivially faster if the verification happened in the background in parallel with fetching the next part.


----------



## rottoy

windyweekend said:


> Looks like we're up and running. Had the choice between a new dryer, buying my kids Christmas presents, or having SSS. Spitfire won of course (duh) and I dropped the cash for Symphonic Strings. For those of the socially minded type, please don't fret - my kids will get a bowl of broth and a nice bundle of wood like last year, *but just think of the gorgeous music they'll get to listen to me make!*


 The naivety, to think that you'll actually make music after buying that latest sample library.
What's next, Trump becoming president?


----------



## higgs

rottoy said:


> What's next, Trump becoming president?


Nnnevvverrr gonna happen.

I digress...


----------



## ctsai89

higgs said:


> Nnnevvverrr gonna happen.
> 
> I digress...



Lol I honestly don't mind it that much. Besides, so much hate against him has been triggered by media putting words in his mouth. Everything will be fine


----------



## Parsifal666

ctsai89 said:


> Lol I honestly don't mind it that much. Besides, so much hate against him has been triggered by media putting words in his mouth. Everything will be fine



Right.

Donald Trump: (from his Twitter, which he later tried denying and was quickly slapped down by the evidence of his own account) "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."

Right.


----------



## Parsifal666

And yes, apologies for being off topic.


----------



## rottoy

Parsifal666 said:


> And yes, apologies for being off topic.


Apologies was created by and for the Chinese to undermine the authority of V.I Control Forum.


----------



## Parsifal666

rottoy said:


> Apologies was created by and for the Chinese to undermine the authority of V.I Control Forum.





rottoy said:


> Apologies was created by and for the Chinese to undermine the authority of V.I Control Forum.



LOL! Post of the day.


----------



## JanR

Ahhhh LOVE the performance patches, Mural spics are my favorite, so this is string heaven for me ))

Anybody know when the expansion pack releases? And are the outrigger and Leader mic then added to the cta mikes layout like in Mural or in a separate patch menu?


----------



## 5Lives

cadenzajon said:


> If you want to buy bypass Spitfire's USD conversion, purchase from timespace.com. They accept Paypal for the currency transfer which gives you a fair, current rate for many international currencies. I've bought several Spitfire libraries from them and always been very pleased.
> 
> http://www.timespace.com/product/SFSS-120/spitfire_audio_symphonic_strings.html



Just FYI for other US buyers right now, if you buy via Timespace, based on the current PayPal exchange rate, you will pay $529.78, a savings of $60 over buying direct from Spitfire. But you don't even need to do that - Timespace offers you a way to choose USD as your currency and it shows $530.10 as the final checkout price.


----------



## ctsai89

Parsifal666 said:


> Right.
> 
> Donald Trump: (from his Twitter, which he later tried denying and was quickly slapped down by the evidence of his own account) "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."
> 
> Right.



lol you can cherry pick out everything he says or you can focus on the point he's making: Global warming is not the biggest threat to USA as of yet.


----------



## markleake

5Lives said:


> Just FYI for other US buyers right now, if you buy via Timespace, based on the current PayPal exchange rate, you will pay $529.78, a savings of $60 over buying direct from Spitfire. But you don't even need to do that - Timespace offers you a way to choose USD as your currency and it shows $530.10 as the final checkout price.


Thanks for this! This is very useful info for some of us here. 

I am super-keen on buying this, given the wonderful libraries I have already bought from Spitfire - I have been totally sucked into the Spitfire vortex with these Symphonic releases and the Albions. There's no way to avoid the inevitable damage to my wallet for me.

The currency conversion for the non-Europeans/Americans like me is an added complexity that has been a bit confusing. I will check this out.


----------



## Vastman

Please go to and comment/review NEW THREAD in Sample Talk forum about currencey...

Details regarding prices, currency conversions, US vs. other places, best deals, and all related financial issues about purchase... ie paypal (YES! via T&S)


----------



## dtcomposer

Aoiichi said:


> There's a new "fast" legato as well as all the previously existing types, right (not to get confused with the pre-existing "fast runs" from Muarl)? How well does it all fit together and does the new fast legato really make it possible to do some nice agile passages, akin to what Sable could do (even before the SCS legato update)?



I'm not sure about the fast legato. I think they might have just improved the regular legato transitions. Maybe @Spitfire Team can chime in here, because there don't seem to be any single legato instruments other than the Sul C/G. The other legato types are housed in a performance legato patch, or in "legacy" Mural setups without an option for "fast legato".

I felt I was able to play quite a bit faster and still have it sound good, but as there is no indication for sure I'll just have to wait on that. I would love to see all the legato types as separate instruments, or at least on the same instrument as separate options at some point.


----------



## higgs

Aoiichi said:


> Also, please can we keep politics out of these threads? I understand some people may want to lash out given recent events, but there is a whole non-music off-topic forum dedicated to that. Have some self-control.


And guns too.


----------



## ctsai89

higgs said:


> And guns too.



lol i assume u've had the chance to play around with SSS. May I verify with you that the legato performance patches of 2nd violins, viola, cello were just as playable as 1st violin as shown in the walkthrough?


----------



## higgs

ctsai89 said:


> lol i assume u've had the chance to play around with SSS. May I verify with you that the legato performance patches of 2nd violins, viola, cello were just as playable as 1st violin as shown in the walkthrough?


Absolutely. I spent an hour or so today just playing - I was all grins. I haven't gotten into the basses yet, but so far the other strings are otherworldly.


----------



## lp59burst

5Lives said:


> Just FYI for other US buyers right now, if you buy via Timespace, based on the current PayPal exchange rate, you will pay $529.78, a savings of $60 over buying direct from Spitfire. But you don't even need to do that - Timespace offers you a way to choose USD as your currency and it shows $530.10 as the final checkout price.


I'm in the US and on Timespace if I select to have prices shown in "dollars" I'm seeing a price for SSS of $441.75... is the VAT $147.25?


----------



## higgs

Aoiichi said:


> Not sure what you're getting at- I didn't mention guns at all? If you have a problem, please PM it to me and explain. Thanks, and don't take this topic any further off topic.


Just referencing the irony of your avatar. The politics ended pages ago, and really didn't even get started. Back to SSS awesomeness ploise!


----------



## higgs

Aoiichi said:


> My avatar isn't a discussion though, nor is this a thread dedicated to the discussion of avatars- please don't de-rail this topic any further. If you're referring to the other pages, page 23 was taken up by a good amount of off-topic political posting, there's one on this page, and this is page 24, so it's not pages ago and it was a current concern to appeal not to turn this thread political. Again, this thread isn't a space for the discussion of politics or avatars.
> 
> But as you said, back to the topic of SSS, and let's focus on that now the point is made. So the new fast legato system seems to be functioning well?


I enjoyed my time with it today. Think I still need some practice with vibrato technique, but overall, it was a good day for me with legatos, longs, and the short patches.


----------



## ctsai89

higgs said:


> Absolutely. I spent an hour or so today just playing - I was all grins. I haven't gotten into the basses yet, but so far the other strings are otherworldly.



So, Berlin/Vienna killer after all?


----------



## dtcomposer

Aoiichi said:


> Hmm, interesting. One of the things that caught my interest about SSS is that the articulations chart indicates it has a totally new fast legato. As such, I wouldn't expect to see it in the mural legacy patches as it wasn't available there. Could someone else who's had the chance to play around with it a bit chime in?


 Yeah I was excited about that as well. I'm almost certain that I went through all the patches and unless it is in the performance patch it isn't included yet.


----------



## amorphosynthesis

Spitfire Team said:


> http://www.spitfireaudio.com/press-releases/spitfire-mural-rip-press-release/


@Spitfire Team 
Will there be any bundled packages including SSS besides EVERYTHING and SYMPHONY?
Thank you


----------



## Soundhound

I'm thinking of getting an avatar of a gun with a european 'no' slash through it. That way if anyone has a problem with it I can say they brought it up and blame them. Cool huh?

On to SSS, just downloaded and starting to play with it. My deep research so far leads me to the technical and aesthetic first impression: Holy crap!


----------



## markleake

@Soundhound Well, if you did, the updated avatar might generate a few more feigned "I'm not sure..." obtuse responses? 

I am very looking forward to what you and others think of SSS once you've downloaded. I'm eagerly looking forward to people's comments on the legatos, but also how you think you will integrate it in with the libraries you already have.


----------



## Vastman

ensembles longs... 2nd low g out of tune/chorus effect a bit sharp when modwheel dynamics is above 60% of the way up? Is it the celli?


----------



## rdd27

Hi all, I've been reading this thread since it started but I still don't understand what the benefit for me to upgrade is. I own Mural 1-3, don't need ensembles. The only difference I can tell is that there is a sul G legato apparently, the normal legato can be played faster and that the legatos switch by playing speed (which you could already do via the cntrl+click switching settings). 

Thanks!


----------



## EvilDragon

tack said:


> It's about as fast as I can go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My biggest complaint is the frequent pause to validate downloaded parts. It interrupts the download at that point. I suspect I'd be able to download nontrivially faster if the verification happened in the background in parallel with fetching the next part.



Agreed, this is annoying. There's nothing preventing the downloader to do the verification in a separate thread and keep on downloading other parts... it just needs to be programmed in


----------



## Vik

rdd27 said:


> Hi all, I've been reading this thread since it started but I still don't understand what the benefit for me to upgrade is. I own Mural 1-3, don't need ensembles. The only difference I can tell is that there is a sul G legato apparently


I think that's in Mural 3 as well. 

The big benefit could be improved legato/portamento, and we had a discussion about this earlier in this thread. In Chamber Strings it seems to be both Legato Performance and Performance Legato patches, which of course is a little confusing - one of them has manual portamento control. And now when all the Murals are one product, it's probably easier to add updates and improvements. Maybe that has happened already - but I don't know if Mural has both these legato performance presets, or if portamento has been improved yet, or if there are new presets in SSS with portamento which includes the two earlier portamento parameters. 



> (which you could already do via the cntrl+click switching settings).


Please explain?


----------



## Daniel F.

@Vik I suppose you own and have downloaded SSS to make that claim? Because I think those patches you are talking about are in the Legacy folder of the legato folder. Could you or anyone else check to see if that's the case so we can end this ones and for all. Because I agree if they didn't include them that would a very poor decision because the Performance Legato and Legato Performance are very different and having both is important imo.


----------



## Vik

Daniel F. said:


> @Vik I suppose you own and have downloaded SSS to make that claim? Because I think those patches you are talking about are in the Legacy folder of the legato folder. Could you or anyone else check to see if that's the case so we can end this ones and for all. Because I agree if they didn't include them that would a very poor decision because the Performance Legato and Legato Performance are very different and having both is important imo.


Hi Daniel! Not sure what you think that I claimed... 
I'm not talking about legacy patches - I have those already in Mural. I wonder if SSS has two kinds of legato performance patches (like the Chamber Strings lib seems to have), if there are any *new* presets in SSS which include the two portamento parameters from Mural, and if portamento has been improved.

ETA (for clarity): I'm think the best thing that can happen to SSS (to ensure brilliant development of that product) is that as many people buy it as possible, and I'm actually not claiming that SSS has or doesn't have any of these things. 

Of course Spitfire wants SSS to be as good as SCS, and maybe the code already exists, coming in a future update, or maybe some of this is in there already. I don't know, I have Mural but not SSS - just asking questions!


----------



## Daniel F.

Vik said:


> Hi Daniel! Not sure what you think that I claimed...
> I'm not talking about legacy patches - I have those already in Mural. I wonder if SSS has two kinds of legato performance patches (like the Chamber Strings lib seems to have), if there are any *new* presets in SSS which include the two portamento parameters from Mural, and if portamento has been improved.
> 
> ETA (for clarity): I'm think the best thing that can happen to SSS (to ensure brilliant development of that product) is that as many people buy it as possible, and I'm actually not claiming that SSS has or doesn't have any of these things.
> 
> Of course Spitfire wants SSS to be as good as SCS, and maybe the code already exists, coming in a future update, or maybe some of this is in there already. I don't know, I have Mural but not SSS - just asking questions!



Yes you're right I that I tough you said there there wasn't any of them, as if you we're certain. Sorry 

I think the legacy patches are the legato performance that came with SCS when it was first released, not the Andy legato that was added later, I think those are the legacy patches or at least they work the same way as they did in Mural and Sable. I agree that I don't like that they named the old patches legacy patches, if that now is the case and there's a big chance there is, because even though the Andy patches might be the new way to play legato and are more advanced I usually reach for the other patches in SCS. Because I want to have the extra control I get with those patches.

But you say "if there are any *new* presets in SSS which include the two portamento parameters from Mural, and if portamento has been improved." That would probably be the legacy patches if you want the same type of control as in Mural, that's why they are called legacy I think. Don't take my word for it because I've not gotten SSS yet. Also what do you mean improved legato? Was there a problem with the legato in Mural?


----------



## Andy B

Just wanted to chime in here as there seems to be some confusion about the new fast legato in SSS. The new Performance Legato patches in SSS give you access to five different recorded note transitions (what is often referred to as True Legato), without the need for key-switching as the correct sample is chosen based on playing speed. These are slurred (fingered), bowed, portamento, fast slurred and runs slurred. The patches also feature spiccato and I've found they cover most of what's required for string writing for me.

We're hoping to produce a walkthrough soon to fully explain how they work.

Hope that helps,

Andy.


----------



## Daniel F.

Andy B said:


> Just wanted to chime in here as there seems to be some confusion about the new fast legato in SSS. The new Performance Legato patches in SSS give you access to five different recorded note transitions (what is often referred to as True Legato), without the need for key-switching as the correct sample is chosen based on playing speed. These are slurred (fingered), bowed, portamento, fast slurred and runs slurred. The patches also feature spiccato and I've found they cover most of what's required for string writing for me.
> 
> We're hoping to produce a walkthrough soon to fully explain how they work.
> 
> Hope that helps,
> 
> Andy.



Hey Andy. The question I have is if you are including both main legato patches in SSS as you did with SCS. Do you have both the Performance Legato and the Legato Performance? If you don't then what's in the legacy legato folder?


----------



## Daniel F.

Aoiichi said:


> So for all intents and purposes, it functions very similarly to the performance legato update that hit chamber strings?



I don't own SSS yet but I think that's the whole point of the performance legato patch. It's supposed to be the same for all instruments that have it, it's even the same for Brass. You have short notes as well as sustains and all the different legatos. It's very playable but not as customizable as something like the other legato patches.

The question is if they still have the more customizable legato patches as well for SSS because they do for SCS.


----------



## jamwerks

Still wondering how the spiccato is controlled? How does it know we are going to play a short note (some Andy B voodoo going on here?).


----------



## markleake

Aoiichi said:


> @markleake I have PM'ed you regarding that using this thread to discuss reactions to avatars is probably not appropriate- I am sure SF do not want to see their commercial announcement on a product they've taken much care over overtaken. You and @Soundhound should have more respect for their work.


Edit: OK, after doing some further reading, I'm not at all confortable responding to you on this. I've removed my response for now.


----------



## Andy B

Hi Daniel,

The SSS legato legacy patches feature Fingered, Bowed, Portamento and Runs as all-in-one patches but with the ability to unload any of them.

Thanks,

Andy.


----------



## kavinsky

Andy B said:


> Just wanted to chime in here as there seems to be some confusion about the new fast legato in SSS. The new Performance Legato patches in SSS give you access to five different recorded note transitions (what is often referred to as True Legato), without the need for key-switching as the correct sample is chosen based on playing speed. These are slurred (fingered), bowed, portamento, fast slurred and runs slurred. The patches also feature spiccato and I've found they cover most of what's required for string writing for me.
> 
> We're hoping to produce a walkthrough soon to fully explain how they work.
> 
> Hope that helps,
> 
> Andy.


Hey Andy, a detailed walkthrough on this feature would be very helpful, it was promised in the chamber strings walkthrough but its still not clear how it really works and there's no mention about it in the interactive UI manual. It's fairly clear with brass since it only features 1 type of true legato.

I think the concept of combining legatos and spiccs is strong and I missed it in other libraries
But I'd like to know how to properly use it so he scripts picks up required legato transition

Fingered and Bowed legatos do not relate to playing speed for example (at least in my mind),
some phrases sound a lot better with bowed legato, and vise versa and it'd be nice if there was a way to control it additionally via KS when you really want to select legato transition yourself (berlin strings has a similar feature).


----------



## markleake

I've created the usual forum topic under the Sample Talk section to allow for easier discussion on the library. I would be interested in hearing people's thoughts on the library once they have it downloaded and used it a bit.

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-symphonic-strings-sss-the-good-the-bad-and.57362/


----------



## Andy B

kavinsky said:


> Hey Andy, a detailed walkthrough on this feature would be very helpful, it was promised in the chamber strings walkthrough but its still not clear how it really works and there's no mention about it in the interactive UI manual.
> 
> I think the concept of combining legatos and spiccs is strong and I missed it in other libraries
> But I'd like to know how to properly use it so he scripts picks up required legato transition
> 
> Fingered and Bowed legatos do not relate to playing speed for example (at least in my mind),
> some phrases sound a lot better with bowed legato, and vise versa and it'd be nice if there was a way to control it additionally via KS when you really want to select legato transition yourself (berlin strings has a similar feature).


Sorry if I've confused you. Speed doesn't control whether it's a slurred, bowed or portamento transition. This is simply triggered by velocity, allowing complete user control.

Thanks,

Andy.


----------



## meradium

kavinsky said:


> Hey Andy, a detailed walkthrough on this feature would be very helpful, it was promised in the chamber strings walkthrough but its still not clear how it really works and there's no mention about it in the interactive UI manual.
> 
> I think the concept of combining legatos and spiccs is strong and I missed it in other libraries
> But I'd like to know how to properly use it so he scripts picks up required legato transition
> 
> Fingered and Bowed legatos do not relate to playing speed for example (at least in my mind),
> some phrases sound a lot better with bowed legato, and vise versa and it'd be nice if there was a way to control it additionally via KS when you really want to select legato transition yourself (berlin strings has a similar feature).



I second that request. Having manual control when needed would be great.


----------



## Andy B

meradium said:


> I second that request. Having manual control when needed would be great.


Hi Meradium,

Sorry, you may have missed my reply above your post that describes how you do have control over triggering between slurred, bowed or portamento transitions via velocity switching.

Thanks,

Andy.


----------



## Andy B

Aoiichi said:


> Interesting, so are the fast and fast runs legatos the only runs that are time triggered (and logically so)?


Thankfully not – there are also variations in the speed of the slurred, bowed & portamento transitions.

Thanks,

Andy.


----------



## rdd27

Sounds interesting, so my impression is that there is a new "fast slurred" articulation which will activate when you are playing the slurred articulation at an appropriate speed. If you play even faster, the runs will switch on? 

@Vik In my previous post, I was referring to the articulation switching settings (see here http://www.syntheticorchestra.com/blog/?10) which I had configured to switch to runs automatically already when I was at an appropriate playing speed. 

Updates sounds good; in some articulations in the original Mural, the violin patches go down to F#, which unless the violins were recorded a semi-tone flat seems a sample-mapping issue. It caused a couple of surprises when I transposed a phrase down too far!


----------



## Polarity

I admit that I'm very tempted to buy SSS...
I was having s different project for updating my strings "arsenal" during Black Friday/Christmas sales, but after watching the walkthrough I have to say that I'm very tempted to change my mind and also trash almost all my other strings (Albion One included) already owned.
It's simply complete with so many beautiful alternative articulations never found in other libraries that "resistence" is almost "futile" .
Well, I see that I have till 30th of November to decide...
Not sure if it was mentioned/replied already about the Intro Price offer but I found on Best Service shop that date.


----------



## ctsai89

took me almost 24 hours here in southern California anddddddd 3 gigabites left till i finish downloading!! can't wait.


----------



## ctsai89

OK SO I FINALLY GOT MY HANDS ON TO PLAY AROUND WITH PERFORMANCE LEGATO PATCHES OF SSS

Here are my thoughts (so far):

This is again, ALMOST perfect patches and closest to perfection yet. It WOULD'VE been perfect if the staccato overlays at lower velocity in the viola performance legato patches were more well blended to the longs that follows the overlay... It seems too loud or the attack (ADSR) of the sustain was too high causing the sustain to trigger too late. Anyhow, I'm 95% satisfied as of now until I find bugs/other flaws.

lastly, all the performance legato patches are about -6db as loud as the original legato performance from legacy patches. So make sure you boost it up just so it will mix in.


----------



## prodigalson

I think the significance of what Andy is doing with these new performance legato patches shouldn't be underestimated and I'm surprised they haven't gotten more attention. Patches that select between 5 types of legato transitions based on speed and velocity but ALSO include short notes? They are insanely playable and from what I can tell, noone else is scripting legato patches like this.


----------



## meradium

Andy B said:


> Hi Meradium,
> 
> Sorry, you may have missed my reply above your post that describes how you do have control over triggering between slurred, bowed or portamento transitions via velocity switching.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andy.



Andy, I should have clarified a bit more what I meant... 

First of all, I think the flexibility these new patches offer is great and I am sure you have spent significant time to develop this awesome new functionality.

Regarding the library as a whole I consider myself a very happy customer. There are however a few things that I find a bit difficult to get used to:

1. The performance patches:

Sure, I can control the type of transition with the velocity. That I understand. What I am struggling with is the fact that there seems to be no way to influence the transposition speed manually when needed - at least I have not yet figured out myself how this would work.

Take the portamentos for example... I keep falling back to the original patches (same with SCS btw.) because the transpositions take slightly longer which especially with the portamentos sounds very beautiful. In the performance patches, however, they most of the time sound way too quick for me... Especially when playing slow lines. Maybe there is a trick to it?

You say the transposition speed is also influenced via the script. How can I tell it to slow down?

Tthe performance patches are somewhat quieter in absolute volume compared to the rest of the library. Is that intentional? Even when bumping the patch volume inside Kontakt all the way up they stay well below the other patches... Expression and modulation all up... Any recommendations here?

One other thing I noticed: Playing them with completely purged samples to save RAM leads to a few hickups as some samples are apparently just not loaded even though Kontakt indicates it is loading something... But after pressing the same combination of keys several times in the same sequence again and again it should have figured out what to load. I have not experienced this issue in SCS.

Otherwise it is really a joy to play! Thank you!

2. Dynamics

Compared to SCS I find the dynamics of SSS are much harder to control. Especially when using a breath controller to adjust modulation. What is very smooth and easy in SCS becomes a bit bumpy in SSS because it seems the upper layer(s) fade in much quicker than in the other library.

That are my initial thoughts and findindings.

Cheers,
Sebastian


----------



## ctsai89

meradium said:


> Andy, I should have clarified a bit more what I meant...
> 
> First of all, I think the flexibility these new patches offer is great and I am sure you have spent significant time to develop this awesome new functionality.
> 
> Regarding the library as a whole I consider myself a very happy customer. There are however a few things that I find a bit difficult to get used to:
> 
> 1. The performance patches:
> 
> Sure, I can control the type of transition with the velocity. That I understand. What I am struggling with is the fact that there seems to be no way to influence the transposition speed manually when needed - at least I have not yet figured out myself how this would work.
> 
> Take the portamentos for example... I keep falling back to the original patches (same with SCS btw.) because the transpositions take slightly longer which especially with the portamentos sounds very beautiful. In the performance patches, however, they most of the time sound way too quick for me... Especially when playing slow lines. Maybe there is a trick to it?
> 
> You say the transposition speed is also influenced via the script. How can I tell it to slow down?
> 
> Tthe performance patches are somewhat quieter in absolute volume compared to the rest of the library. Is that intentional? Even when bumping the patch volume inside Kontakt all the way up they stay well below the other patches... Expression and modulation all up... Any recommendations here?
> 
> One other thing I noticed: Playing them with completely purged samples to save RAM leads to a few hickups as some samples are apparently just not loaded even though Kontakt indicates it is loading something... But after pressing the same combination of keys several times in the same sequence again and again it should have figured out what to load. I have not experienced this issue in SCS.
> 
> Otherwise it is really a joy to play! Thank you!
> 
> 2. Dynamics
> 
> Compared to SCS I find the dynamics of SSS are much harder to control. Especially when using a breath controller to adjust modulation. What is very smooth and easy in SCS becomes a bit bumpy in SSS because it seems the upper layer(s) fade in much quicker than in the other library.
> 
> That are my initial thoughts and findindings.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sebastian




Those are quite similar to my findings as well.


----------



## Christof

There seems to be a bug with vibrato control in the performance legato patches:
from 0-64 I hear non vibrato, from 65-127 vibrato, that means the players start instantly vibrato when you move the fader from 64 to 65.
It's like turing vibrato on and off.
So moving the fader in the range from 0-65 doesn't change anything(just non vibrato), same in the range from 65-127(just one intensity of vibrato).
This makes vibrato control almost unusable, it should be a smooth transition from 0-127.


----------



## kavinsky

Christof said:


> There seems to be a bug with vibrato control in the performance legato patches:
> from 0-64 I hear non vibrato, from 65-127 vibrato, that means the players start instantly vibrato when you move the fader from 64 to 65.
> It's like turing vibrato on and off.
> So moving the fader in the range from 0-65 doesn't change anything(just non vibrato), same in the range from 65-127(just one intensity of vibrato).
> This makes vibrato control almost unusable, it should be a smooth transition from 0-127.


It's always been like this with spitfire vib control so it's definitely intentional.
The smooth transition would make things even worse.


----------



## Christof

kavinsky said:


> It's always been like this with spitfire vib control so it's definitely intentional.
> The smooth transition would make things even worse.


This is not logical, in the normal long articulations the vibrato transition is smooth and continuously, only in the legato patches it does not work.
Why would a smooth transition make things worse?


----------



## Christof

sure will do a bit later


----------



## Christof

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43286649/leg%20performance.mp3 (Legato performance):at sec 05 you can hear the switch to vibrato (when my fader passes vel.65) and at sec.09 back to non vibrato.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43286649/long.mp3 (Long): Here is a much smoother transition.

And https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43286649/longCSS.mp3 (here) is the same with CSS violins1


----------



## meradium

Christof said:


> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43286649/leg%20performance.mp3 (Legato performance):at sec 05 you can hear the switch to vibrato (when my fader passes vel.65) and at sec.09 back to non vibrato.
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43286649/long.mp3 (Long): Here is a much smoother transition.
> 
> And https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43286649/longCSS.mp3 (here) is the same with CSS violins1



Noticed that one as well.

I can already picture the developers: "ohhhh.... These customers... Never happy with what they have...."


----------



## Andy B

meradium said:


> I can already picture the developers: "ohhhh.... These customers... Never happy with what they have...."


Ha, ha! 

We've spotted that there's a bug in the performance patches which could explain the transition problems you're experiencing. We're going to issue a fix for this early next week.

The fade between vib & non-vib in the performance patches is always a compromise in order to get the smoothest consistency between the longs and transitions. I'll have another look at it and see if there's a better compromise to be made.

Hope this helps,

Andy.


----------



## meradium

Andy B said:


> Ha, ha!
> 
> We've spotted that there's a bug in the performance patches which could explain the transition problems you're experiencing. We're going to issue a fix for this early next week.
> 
> The fade between vib & non-vib in the performance patches is always a compromise in order to get the smoothest consistency between the longs and transitions. I'll have another look at it and see if there's a better compromise to be made.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Andy.



Andy, thank you for looking into it.


----------



## Saxer

It's the same with SCS Performance Legatos vs Legato Performances: the new Performance Legatos switch from no vib to full vib, the older Legato Performances have a crossfade.

Would be extremely lovely to crossfade from 'no vib' to 'normal vib' to 'molto vib' (Rachmaninoff)!


----------



## kmm08

Just downloaded the latest Symphonic Strings update. For some reason, the new Performance Legatos do not seem to work as well in comparison to the Chamber Strings library. Especially the Violins 2 Performance Legato patch. Sounds are more choppy and legatos do not sound as smooth to me as compared to the Legato Legacy versions from Mural, or at least harder to control. Unfortunately the legacy versions do not contain the new fast legato intervals. 
Also seems that the volume is much lower than all the other patches in the library for some reason.


----------



## Daniel F.

kmm08 said:


> Just downloaded the latest Symphonic Strings update. For some reason, the new Performance Legatos do not seem to work as well in comparison to the Chamber Strings library. Especially the Violins 2 Performance Legato patch. Sounds are more choppy and legatos do not sound as smooth to me as compared to the Legato Legacy versions from Mural, or at least harder to control. Unfortunately the legacy versions do not contain the new fast legato intervals.
> Also seems that the volume is much lower than all the other patches in the library for some reason.



Really? You should send a report to Spitfire about this with a detailed explanation of what the problem is. The performance legato in Chamber Strings is great as you say so I hope Symphonic Strings can be as good. Could you post an example played with both Chamber Strings and Symphonic Strings? Both for Violins 1 and Violins 2 would be good.

That seems like a very big miss if they don't include the new fast legato intervals in the other legato patches, I hope this is not the case and if it is it's something they will fix with an update.

Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## kmm08

I have sent countless reports in the past to Spitfire regarding specific bugs that I have found with the scripting in their libraries but have yet to receive a response from them on any of these topics. I noticed that the issues are still present in all new Spitfire libraries being released as well (Symphonic Brass, Strings, Chamber strings etc). I've spent a lot of time troubleshooting and writing detailed reports for their support team as well as making a video capture. 

On of the main bugs found (and most annoying) is trouble with release samples and midi channels. As you can see in the attached video, by observing the Kontakt Groups Monitor that originally the sound does not trigger the proper release trigger resulting in no room sound at all upon note off. After messing with the Dynamics and Vibrato sliders, it finally resets to the proper release and sounds as it should. This happens whenever an instrument is loaded into Kontakt and set to any channel other than channel #1 (set to channel #2 in the video). 

This issue can be reproduced in all the BML modular instruments as well as the new Symphonic/Chamber Strings and Symphonic Brass (as shown). It happens with any instruments that use release triggers. Note that I have the Assign Default midi channel in Kontakt set to 'Omni'. If you set it to '1st Free Option' the opposite takes place when changing instrument channels to omni or another channel besides the one it loaded up on. 

This seems to be a wide spread issue with all Spitfire libraries, but unfortunately is not being addressed by their support team. This among other smaller issues I have found. I'm not sure what happened to their support team at this point, but considering the money spent, it would be nice to get at least a response once in a while, especially since I'm spending much time troubleshooting these issues for them. 

(Note: I tried to upload the video file to this post, but it won't seem to accept it for some reason. It says maximum upload is 9.8 MB, although its an mp4 and the file is only 4 MB in size.)


----------



## Christof

I discovered a release bug in the tremolo patches, usually when you stop playing you should hear a final note in time of the release, but in SSS they keep playing longer for a short while.
This is avoidable by releasing the keys a bit earlier, but this is not the best turnaround.


----------



## EvilDragon

kmm08 said:


> This seems to be a wide spread issue with all Spitfire libraries, but unfortunately is not being addressed by their support team.



Perhaps the issue is actually with Kontakt, at which point it's up to NI to fix it, not Spitfire. Did that thought occur to you?

That sounds like there _might be_ some modulator initialization issue when instrument MIDI channel is changed, which really cannot be influenced by scripting and is purely Kontakt's innards. Which, guess what, only NI can do something about.


----------



## ctsai89

Daniel F. said:


> Really? You should send a report to Spitfire about this with a detailed explanation of what the problem is. The performance legato in Chamber Strings is great as you say so I hope Symphonic Strings can be as good. Could you post an example played with both Chamber Strings and Symphonic Strings? Both for Violins 1 and Violins 2 would be good.
> 
> That seems like a very big miss if they don't include the new fast legato intervals in the other legato patches, I hope this is not the case and if it is it's something they will fix with an update.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this?



Yep fast legato isn't included in the legacy legato performance nor is it included individually which I'm quite dissapointed about but it seems to be (subtle-ly) included in the new performance legato patches. 

I like sss's performance legato much more than scs's because the dynamic spikes that happens on the note following another note during a legato is much less apparent than the scs's which I found truly awful in scs's v2 and viola patches. Scs's v2 and viola is really sloppy compared to its own v1 and cello patches and SSS is just much more consistent in this regard


----------



## Daniel F.

@kmm08 could you upload a demo of the problem you're describing to soundcloud or something like that?



ctsai89 said:


> Yep fast legato isn't included in the legacy legato performance nor is it included individually which I'm quite dissapointed about but it seems to be (subtle-ly) included in the new performance legato patches.
> 
> I like sss's performance legato much more than scs's because the dynamic spikes that happens on the note following another note during a legato is much less apparent than the scs's which I found truly awful in scs's v2 and viola patches. Scs's v2 and viola is really sloppy compared to its own v1 and cello patches and SSS is just much more consistent in this regard



Some things in this post makes me glad and something not. The thing about the fast legato has to be something they missed, but that's a huge miss to begin with so it's strange no one noticed before release.

You like the sss perf legato more than scs that's both good and bad to hear. It good that the perf legato in sss is even better than scs but it's also bad that the scs perf legato is something you don't like. Could you upload a clip to soundcloud where you show the spike? I've been trying to recreate it but I'm not sure I hear what you talking about. Is this apparent in all perf legato patches, because I can hear a small bump in violas I think but I'm not sure that's what you mean. Or is it in all patches just that it's worse in v2 and violas? I also noticed that the there's something odd about the violas perf legato patch it has a speed slider, which is not included in the other performance legato patches might just be something they missed or it might be that the whole instance is bugged I dunno.

But we should probably take this discussion elsewhere, sample talk maybe. I don't know if they like us comparing products, even if it's by the same company, in the announcement thread or say to much bad about their product lol.


----------



## ctsai89

Daniel F. said:


> @kmm08 could you upload a demo of the problem you're describing to soundcloud or something like that?
> 
> 
> 
> Some things in this post makes me glad and something not. The thing about the fast legato has to be something they missed, but that's a huge miss to begin with so it's strange no one noticed before release.
> 
> You like the sss perf legato more than scs that's both good and bad to hear. It good that the perf legato in sss is even better than scs but it's also bad that the scs perf legato is something you don't like. Could you upload a clip to soundcloud where you show the spike? I've been trying to recreate it but I'm not sure I hear what you talking about. Is this apparent in all perf legato patches, because I can hear a small bump in violas I think but I'm not sure that's what you mean. Or is it in all patches just that it's worse in v2 and violas? I also noticed that the there's something odd about the violas perf legato patch it has a speed slider, which is not included in the other performance legato patches might just be something they missed or it might be that the whole instance is bugged I dunno.
> 
> But we should probably take this discussion elsewhere, sample talk maybe. I don't know if they like us comparing products, even if it's by the same company, in the announcement thread or say to much bad about their product lol.



It's in all scs perf legato patches but most noticeably awful in violas. Try playing the main theme (slow part) from Holst's Jupiter without breaking the legatos you'll see what i'm talking about. 

The other thing i really really dislike about the scs new perf legato patch is that viola is the loudest and everything else went down in volume (why?). I know this is happening to SSS too but at least their all softer so all i had to do is bus them together and put a +6 gain instead of having to figure out which one needs to be louder.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Am very close to getting this but not having control of each legato type is a deal breaker for me.

Sounds great tho


----------



## tack

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Am very close to getting this but not having control of each legato type is a deal breaker for me.


You do. The original combination palettes that provide full control are available too.


----------



## kmm08

EvilDragon said:


> Perhaps the issue is actually with Kontakt, at which point it's up to NI to fix it, not Spitfire. Did that thought occur to you?
> 
> That sounds like there _might be_ some modulator initialization issue when instrument MIDI channel is changed, which really cannot be influenced by scripting and is purely Kontakt's innards. Which, guess what, only NI can do something about.



I'm not really sure what is the cause of the issue. What I do know is that after owning and testing most of the major symphonic libraries on the market, the Spitfire libraries are the only ones that have these specific issues. Thus, if it is an issue with Kontakt, then apparently the other companies have found work arounds to avoid these issues. I hardly see NI addressing issues that only seem to effect one company's products. 

The common thing so far here seems to be the problem with what channels the Spitfire instruments are initially loaded up on and if you change those midi channels afterward (also depends on whether Kontakt preferences are set to load each new instrument with next midi channel, or all set initially to omni mode).


----------



## kmm08

Another odd thing I encountered is when sending CC messages to instruments that are set to Omni mode. When the option ‘CC Mapped Velocity’ is turned on for instruments with short articulations (spic, pizz, etc), it only seems to respond to CC changes being sent on channel #1 from the DAW. They still respond though to midi note on/off messages though. Again, this only seems to happen when the instrument is set to omni. When you set the instrument to the same exact channel as the track is set to in the DAW, it then seems to respond to CC messages properly again. I’ve tested in both Cubase, Pro Tools,and VSL Ensemble Pro with the same results. It doesn’t seem to effect long note articualtions, however, since these default to CC changes for velocity layers.


----------



## kmm08

Issues regarding microphone settings in Spitfire libraries:

When setting any of an instrument's mic outputs to anything but the ‘Default’ setting, both the main volume slider and meter of the instrument seem to become disabled. They only seem to work on mic’s set to the Default position. If you set all the mic’s of the instrument to other outputs besides the Default, the volume slider and meter do not work at all any longer. Thus, there becomes no way to set the overall volume of each instrument except by adjusting each mic individually. (Currently using Kontakt in VEPro connected to Cubase)

Again, I've sent multiple support requests with detailed troubleshooting notes to Spitfire Audio regarding these issues, but at this point in time, still yet to receive a response from anyone. I know in the past, Spitfire support use to actually respond fairly quickly to requests, so I'm not sure what happened to them over the past few months or so.


----------



## jononotbono

Somebody has told me that there aren't any Staccato articulations in SSS! Is this true?


----------



## dhlkid

jononotbono said:


> Somebody has told me that there aren't any Staccato articulations in SSS! Is this true?


I thnk those are difficult kind of shorts


----------



## jononotbono

Can't see any Staccatos on the list except for "Short Staccato Dig" on Basses.

What are the Brushed Shorts?


----------



## tack

jononotbono said:


> Can't see any Staccatos on the list except for "Short Staccato Dig" on Basses.


Right, no staccatos in Mural/SSS. You could probably use the time machine patch to stretch the spiccatos to approximate it.



jononotbono said:


> What are the Brushed Shorts?


----------



## jononotbono

Any reason why Staccatos have been left out?


----------



## ctsai89

jononotbono said:


> Somebody has told me that there aren't any Staccato articulations in SSS! Is this true?



FALSE. There's short 0'5 and 1'0. You can edit and select "Timed short artic RT" so that you can hold it for as long as it will hold it for or release it to make it sound as short as you want.


----------



## ctsai89

jononotbono said:


> Somebody has told me that there aren't any Staccato articulations in SSS! Is this true?



FALSE. There's short 0'5 and 1'0. You can edit and select "Timed short artic RT" so that you can hold it for as long as it will hold it for or release it to make it sound as short as you want.


----------



## tack

ctsai89 said:


> FALSE. There's short 0'5 and 1'0. You can edit and select "Timed short artic RT" so that you can hold it for as long as it will hold it for or release it to make it sound as short as you want.


Staccato isn't synonymous with "short." Staccato is bowed differently than the articulations you mentioned, which is why they aren't called staccato in the first place.


----------



## dtcomposer

tack said:


> Staccato isn't synonymous with "short." Staccato is bowed differently than the articulations you mentioned, which is why they aren't called staccato in the first place.



I agree. There are several short articulations, but not a true staccato (outside of con sordino staccato)


----------



## ctsai89

Aoiichi said:


> I remember SF making a post a while back that there were original plans to label the short 0'5 and 1'0 marcato and tenuto- but after dealing with the spiccato/staccato controversy they simply decided to label them with a slightly less up-to-interpretation name.
> 
> Edit: Yep, in the manual it says they believe the labelling of such arts is in their opinion, a mostly semantic issue, so they used a literal label going forward. I can see their logic on this issue, but I don't agree with it in practice- there's clearly a big gap between the spiccato and short 0'5 articulations where we could use something.



well like i said if you edited 0'5 so you can play and release as soon as you are done so that it won't be running at full 0'5 it sure does feel more like a staccato than it is not.

Because what exactly is a staccato anyways? i'm a string player and I'll tell you my opinion. Spiccato means you gotta be bouncing against the string. Staccato means exactly play the note shorter than notated with/without lifting up the bow.


----------



## EvilDragon

kmm08 said:


> Issues regarding microphone settings in Spitfire libraries:
> 
> When setting any of an instrument's mic outputs to anything but the ‘Default’ setting, both the main volume slider and meter of the instrument seem to become disabled. They only seem to work on mic’s set to the Default position. If you set all the mic’s of the instrument to other outputs besides the Default, the volume slider and meter do not work at all any longer. Thus, there becomes no way to set the overall volume of each instrument except by adjusting each mic individually. (Currently using Kontakt in VEPro connected to Cubase)



That's not a problem with Spitfire, that's how Kontakt works when you route things outside of the instrument but NOT through the main (default) instrument output. Nothing to fix here. Open Kontakt's Outputs panel and you'll see the meters working there, which is how this all is supposed to work...



kmm08 said:


> Thus, if it is an issue with Kontakt, then apparently the other companies have found work arounds to avoid these issues.



Or simply aren't using Kontakt in the same way Spitfire is, which is the more likely scenario.



kmm08 said:


> Another odd thing I encountered is when sending CC messages to instruments that are set to Omni mode. When the option ‘CC Mapped Velocity’ is turned on for instruments with short articulations (spic, pizz, etc), it only seems to respond to CC changes being sent on channel #1 from the DAW. They still respond though to midi note on/off messages though. Again, this only seems to happen when the instrument is set to omni.



That sounds definitely like a Kontakt issue with Omni mode.

Which Kontakt version are you on?


----------



## jononotbono

Aoiichi said:


> I remember SF making a post a while back that there were original plans to label the short 0'5 and 1'0 marcato and tenuto- but after dealing with the spiccato/staccato controversy they simply decided to label them with a slightly less up-to-interpretation name.
> 
> Edit: Yep, in the manual it says they believe the labelling of such arts is in their opinion, a mostly semantic issue, so they used a literal label going forward. I can see their logic on this issue, but I don't agree with it in practice- there's clearly a big gap between the spiccato and short 0'5 articulations where we could use something.



Where is the manual for SSS? Thanks.


----------



## meradium

jononotbono said:


> Where is the manual for SSS? Thanks.



That's a good one... if I'm not mistaken, there is none. The only option you have is to go and collect the different pieces from the walkthroughs or the support entries in the BB board... I hope I missed something but that's what I concluded so far...


----------



## jononotbono

No. I know there isn't one, or to the best of my knowledge there isn't one, because I have read Spitfire's website many times. I'm intrigued how someone can say that the manual said something when I'm aware a manual doesn't exist.

Either way, I'm really intrigued why SCS has Staccato arts and SSS doesn't! There must be a good reason for that.


----------



## meradium

jononotbono said:


> No. I know there isn't one, or to the best of my knowledge there isn't one, because I have read Spitfire's website many times. I'm intrigued how someone can say that the manual said something when I'm aware a manual doesn't exist.
> 
> Either way, I'm really intrigued why SCS has Staccato arts and SSS doesn't! There must be a good reason for that.



I was actually wondering the same... However, I came to the conclusion that combined with SCS this would not be too much of an issue... SCS sounds quite big for what it essentially is...


----------



## jamwerks

jononotbono said:


> Either way, I'm really intrigued why SCS has Staccato arts and SSS doesn't! There must be a good reason for that.


I'm pretty sure it's just a naming convention. IINM, SF was using Staccato, Spiccato and Marcato for the names of their shorts, then started using .5', 1.0', etc. I think I've seen the latter naming also in other non-string libraries of theirs.


----------



## jononotbono

Yeah totally. SCS is incredible. I think if someone knows the "rules" of Tonal Harmony and how to arrange and orchestrate properly then SCS will sound huge. Not meaning to derail this thread. Switching between Spiccs and Staccs in SCS gives so many options.


----------



## jononotbono

jamwerks said:


> I'm pretty sure it's just a naming convention. IINM, SF was using Staccato, Spiccato and Marcato for the names of their shorts, then started using .5', 1.0', etc. I think I've seen the latter naming also in other non-string libraries of theirs.



Ok gotcha!


----------



## Spitfire Team

Hi there,

Re. staccato, yes, I can confirm this is simply a naming convention... We had numerous discussions here about what is staccato and what is spiccato (echo'd ad nauseum on the scoring stage with the string players) so named accordingly in Mural/SSS there are shorts, there are shorter shorts, longer shorts and we added production notes to these on the day, bouncing off the string, brushing, shaping, rounding, abrupt, etc etc.

I would say the shorts on offer in SSS match the diversity of SCS but accept the naming inconsistencies, which I will address with QA.

Re. the manuals, these are now 'inline' so click the little 'i's on the GUI at every control stage for guidance...

Best wishes.

CH.


----------



## jononotbono

Spitfire Team said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Re. staccato, yes, I can confirm this is simply a naming convention... We had numerous discussions here about what is staccato and what is spiccato (echo'd ad nauseum on the scoring stage with the string players) so named accordingly in Mural/SSS there are shorts, there are shorter shorts, longer shorts and we added production notes to these on the day, bouncing off the string, brushing, shaping, rounding, abrupt, etc etc.
> 
> I would say the shorts on offer in SSS match the diversity of SCS but accept the naming inconsistencies, which I will address with QA.
> 
> Re. the manuals, these are now 'inline' so click the little 'i's on the GUI at every control stage for guidance...
> 
> Best wishes.
> 
> CH.



Brilliant. Thanks for clearing this up. I knew there would be an explanation.


----------



## David Gosnell

kmm08 said:


> On of the main bugs found (and most annoying) is trouble with release samples and midi channels. As you can see in the attached video, by observing the Kontakt Groups Monitor that originally the sound does not trigger the proper release trigger resulting in no room sound at all upon note off. After messing with the Dynamics and Vibrato sliders, it finally resets to the proper release and sounds as it should. This happens whenever an instrument is loaded into Kontakt and set to any channel other than channel #1 (set to channel #2 in the video).
> 
> This issue can be reproduced in all the BML modular instruments as well as the new Symphonic/Chamber Strings and Symphonic Brass (as shown). It happens with any instruments that use release triggers. Note that I have the Assign Default midi channel in Kontakt set to 'Omni'. If you set it to '1st Free Option' the opposite takes place when changing instrument channels to omni or another channel besides the one it loaded up on.



I believe this is a known bug concerning Spitfire's use of specific midi channels for specific functionality and the way Kontakt works. Blake does a full guide here:

http://syntheticorchestra.com/blog/?9

However, the shorthand version is a press of the reset key if you have changed the channel from the one the instrument automatically loaded on.


----------



## tack

Naming aside, I'm sure we can all agree the more short variations the better.

But the sound of, for example, SCS's staccato is not easily reproduced with Mural. Using any of the short RT options doesn't get the short 0.5 articulation short enough. Using the TM patch on either short 0.5 or spiccato requires pulling the stretch control out to the far extremes, well beyond the point where artifacting is noticeable, and at which point the alteration of the room decay begins to affect realism.

So it does feel like there is a appreciable gap between spiccato and short 0.5. Also it seems to me that SCS's staccatos have a bit more rosin on the attack, so there is a bowing difference as well?

I'd love to have seen the staccato dig that's on the basses -- which sounds awesome -- be available in all the sections. 

For me the definitive word on MuralSSS's shorts flexibility will be had when @Christof finishes mocking up his wonderful composition The Robber with SSS.


----------



## Spitfire Team

Cool... one must remember that with a band of 60 versus a band of 13 the are going to be very very distinct differences between shorts, especially when you put over 4 and 1/2 times the players in Air studios... Th effect is pretty profound... That and naturally our curatorial role in producing the band according to the size and what we feel people will be using it for...

I too look forward to hearing Christof's track.

Best.

CH


----------



## jononotbono

Is there any chance of someone posting a track using SSS and SCS together? Itching to hear them together until I can afford SSS!


----------



## benmrx

Question on the SSS GUI.

Are there any options for cross fading articulations with a CC? Like, cross fade from a normal long to a trill?

Maybe slightly OT, I would LOVE to a walkthru that focuses on the features of the new Spitfire code base.


----------



## Spitfire Team

not yet... but this has been touched upon before.... by unifying all three volumes of SSS and all four of SCS this does allow us to create some truly inspirational presets.... watch this space!!!


----------



## tack

Oh Christian, you tease.


----------



## benmrx

Spitfire Team said:


> not yet... but this has been touched upon before.... by unifying all three volumes of SSS and all four of SCS this does allow us to create some truly inspirational presets.... watch this space!!!


Nice!!! Thanks for the quick response!


----------



## kmm08

David Gosnell said:


> I believe this is a known bug concerning Spitfire's use of specific midi channels for specific functionality and the way Kontakt works. Blake does a full guide here:
> 
> http://syntheticorchestra.com/blog/?9
> 
> However, the shorthand version is a press of the reset key if you have changed the channel from the one the instrument automatically loaded on.



Thanks. Actually, that seems to be exactly the problem as described in the Synthetic Orchestra website. I looked over this site in the past, but must have missed this specific article. So apparently it is a known issue with their libraries. And yes, pressing the reset key in Kontakt does solve the issue for the moment. Unfortunately though, as mentioned on that same website, the issue was supposed to be eventually corrected in future updates. It has not been. Even in the latest Symphonic releases of the Spitfire libraries, it still works the exact same way, with the exact same problem. It seems as though Spitfire is not really paying much attention to these issues which is a shame, since the sound quality of their libraries is quite good. As I mentioned previously, Iv'e brought these issues to their attention on many occasions but have not gotten a response from their support department (if they even have one at this point).


----------



## SoNowWhat?

They definitely have one (support department) and have helped me out a couple of times (once in the last couple of days). Not sure why your requests aren't answered.


----------



## dhlkid

Dear Spitfire, 

Any black friday sales this month?


----------



## Christof

Spitfire Team said:


> I too look forward to hearing Christof's track.


Here you go, I had to change a lot of things compared to the CSS version(especially velocities), both libraries are wonderful, but very different in workflow!I am happy to own both.


----------



## Spitfire Team

kmm08 said:


> Thanks. Actually, that seems to be exactly the problem as described in the Synthetic Orchestra website. I looked over this site in the past, but must have missed this specific article. So apparently it is a known issue with their libraries. And yes, pressing the reset key in Kontakt does solve the issue for the moment. Unfortunately though, as mentioned on that same website, the issue was supposed to be eventually corrected in future updates. It has not been. Even in the latest Symphonic releases of the Spitfire libraries, it still works the exact same way, with the exact same problem. It seems as though Spitfire is not really paying much attention to these issues which is a shame, since the sound quality of their libraries is quite good. As I mentioned previously, Iv'e brought these issues to their attention on many occasions but have not gotten a response from their support department (if they even have one at this point).



We have a very well staffed support dept who very rarely take longer than 48 hours to attend to all tickets. This is 48 hours during a working week as we don't currently have weekend support. If your tickets are not being responded to this definitely means a breakdown in the zendesk system, either our responses are landing in your spam folder or you've not responded to the zendesk registration email. Please PM me direct here if this is the case and I can forward it on... Don't suffer in silence, we have happy customers who get responses all the time, I want you to experience the same..

CH


----------



## Christof

Here is a new version with SSS but using the time machine patches, works much better....


----------



## kmm08

Spitfire Team said:


> We have a very well staffed support dept who very rarely take longer than 48 hours to attend to all tickets. This is 48 hours during a working week as we don't currently have weekend support. If your tickets are not being responded to this definitely means a breakdown in the zendesk system, either our responses are landing in your spam folder or you've not responded to the zendesk registration email. Please PM me direct here if this is the case and I can forward it on... Don't suffer in silence, we have happy customers who get responses all the time, I want you to experience the same..
> 
> CH


Yes, I actually use to receive responses when I first started purchasing your products. However, to be honest, I haven't gotten a response back in at least the past few months now. And I've must have tried resending the same requests at least a dozen or two times, both by responding to previous emails from your support desk, as well as filling out the support request form on your site. I attached a few detailed videos as well giving examples of the issues. I did receive a notice a few months ago from Spitfire that they were changing how their support system worked so I'm not sure what was exactly was changed. I haven't received any spam email either. The emails I sent were definitely to the support department and not to the registration dept. If you have a new link or support page to send me, that would help. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "PM me direct" since I just signed on to this forum recently, primarily to see if any others had the same issues was I already discovered and if they found any solutions. As I mentioned above, the Synthetic Orchestra blog does seem to outline one of these issues I reported in detail. I have not seen a fix as of yet though in any of the new releases.


----------



## SoNowWhat?

Christof said:


> Here is a new version with SSS but using the time machine patches, works much better....



Thank you for doing this. That CSS thread was epic and fantastic and largely due to you and this little cue (which is excellent by the way. I will be humming it for the rest of the day).


----------



## Daniel F.

andy.k said:


> Thanks for this comparison. Some things sound better in CSS some in SSS but overal CSS sounds better, more like real instruments and has a more attractive price.



Maybe you shouldn't compare two products in the announcement thread? That's why we have dedicated threads in sample talk for comparison and discussing other products.

And yes the TM patches sound great.


----------



## CuriousDan

dhlkid said:


> Dear Spitfire,
> 
> Any black friday sales this month?



Like OAE...


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

Is anyone having issues with the runs (to to speak...)

Here are two short phrases, each played by the new performance legato first, and the legacy one using the 'runs' keyswitch second.


I can't seem to get the runs articulation to trigger on fast passages unless I load the legacy patch. Am I missing something?


----------



## C.R. Rivera

Ok, after reading through, I was able to d/l SSS in five hours. Is the system getting faster or were folks in America just watching the games?


----------



## Spitfire Team

kmm08 said:


> Yes, I actually use to receive responses when I first started purchasing your products. However, to be honest, I haven't gotten a response back in at least the past few months now. And I've must have tried resending the same requests at least a dozen or two times, both by responding to previous emails from your support desk, as well as filling out the support request form on your site. I attached a few detailed videos as well giving examples of the issues. I did receive a notice a few months ago from Spitfire that they were changing how their support system worked so I'm not sure what was exactly was changed. I haven't received any spam email either. The emails I sent were definitely to the support department and not to the registration dept. If you have a new link or support page to send me, that would help. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "PM me direct" since I just signed on to this forum recently, primarily to see if any others had the same issues was I already discovered and if they found any solutions. As I mentioned above, the Synthetic Orchestra blog does seem to outline one of these issues I reported in detail. I have not seen a fix as of yet though in any of the new releases.



Hi there, again, not to pull this off-thread can you PM me here so we can exchange private emails etc etc.

Best.

C.


----------



## EvilDragon

kmm08 said:


> Thanks. Actually, that seems to be exactly the problem as described in the Synthetic Orchestra website. I looked over this site in the past, but must have missed this specific article. So apparently it is a known issue with their libraries. And yes, pressing the reset key in Kontakt does solve the issue for the moment.



After checking things a bit, this is actually a confirmed Kontakt issue, where an instrument in omni mode always reads and sets CCs from MIDI channel 1 and not any other, so all associated modulators, group start criteria etc. don't work well and an engine reset must be forced. Until NI fixes it, at least. Not sure what workaround is possible there, other than not using Omni mode. :D


----------



## ctsai89

wilx said:


> Is anyone having issues with the runs (to to speak...)
> 
> Here are two short phrases, each played by the new performance legato first, and the legacy one using the 'runs' keyswitch second.
> 
> 
> I can't seem to get the runs articulation to trigger on fast passages unless I load the legacy patch. Am I missing something?





hmmm both don't sound good but i can say the new performance legato sounded better than the runs.


----------



## kmm08

EvilDragon said:


> After checking things a bit, this is actually a confirmed Kontakt issue, where an instrument in omni mode always reads and sets CCs from MIDI channel 1 and not any other, so all associated modulators, group start criteria etc. don't work well and an engine reset must be forced. Until NI fixes it, at least. Not sure what workaround is possible there, other than not using Omni mode. :D



Yes, actually if Im not mistaken, I believe Kontakt also had the same issue if you have the preference set to "Midi channel assignment" = 1st Free Channel. The instrument will work OK on the channel it loads up on, but if you change the channel after the fact, you then would have to reset Kotnakt in order to get the release samples working properly again. I'm still not sure though why I have not encountered this issue as of yet with other libraries in Kontakt when changing midi channels (at least none that I recall up till now).


----------



## ctsai89

wilx said:


> Is anyone having issues with the runs (to to speak...)
> 
> Here are two short phrases, each played by the new performance legato first, and the legacy one using the 'runs' keyswitch second.
> 
> 
> I can't seem to get the runs articulation to trigger on fast passages unless I load the legacy patch. Am I missing something?




Try playing the legatoes on low velocity because when it's playing that fast, the staccato is also triggered during the legato.


----------



## EvilDragon

kmm08 said:


> I'm still not sure though why I have not encountered this issue as of yet with other libraries in Kontakt when changing midi channels (at least none that I recall up till now).



If those libraries have their own scripted articulation management and not relying on Kontakt's built-in group start options (which Spitfire is using because it's easier on the CPU than scripting with larger instruments usually), you wouldn't notice it most likely.


----------



## Hafer

EvilDragon said:


> Until NI fixes it, at least


"until" in the sense of "when" or "if"?


----------



## EvilDragon

Anyone's guess, that. :D


----------



## Hafer

Oh thanks, that lifts my spirits


----------



## ClefferNotes

@Spitfire Team Just pulled the trigger on SSS, seriously cannot wait for this beauty! Download is going incredibly fast too, fantastic!


----------



## SoNowWhat?

EvilDragon said:


> If those libraries have their own scripted articulation management and not relying on Kontakt's built-in group start options (which Spitfire is using because it's easier on the CPU than scripting with larger instruments usually), you wouldn't notice it most likely.


I find your contributions here invaluable (and I have ready many more of your posts on other websites and fora). You have expertise in an area that I know I lack so it's always great when you lay it out so that even I can understand it. Thank you.


----------



## DocMidi657

kmm08 said:


> Yes, I actually use to receive responses when I first started purchasing your products. However, to be honest, I haven't gotten a response back in at least the past few months now. And I've must have tried resending the same requests at least a dozen or two times, both by responding to previous emails from your support desk, as well as filling out the support request form on your site. I attached a few detailed videos as well giving examples of the issues. I did receive a notice a few months ago from Spitfire that they were changing how their support system worked so I'm not sure what was exactly was changed. I haven't received any spam email either. The emails I sent were definitely to the support department and not to the registration dept. If you have a new link or support page to send me, that would help. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "PM me direct" since I just signed on to this forum recently, primarily to see if any others had the same issues was I already discovered and if they found any solutions. As I mentioned above, the Synthetic Orchestra blog does seem to outline one of these issues I reported in detail. I have not seen a fix as of yet though in any of the new releases.


PM is a private message within "Conversations" on this forum. Click on Spitfire's icon and create a conversation with him It will be private between the two of you. Hope that helps!


----------



## ClefferNotes

Overall impressions: @Spitfire Team you have nailed it again. Those measured tremolos and Sul G legato's are staggering! I am beyond happy with my purchase, thanks so much!

A small test I orchestrated just using Symphonic Strings of a favourite theme of mine. The main legato line was the Sul G V1 legato patch.


----------



## markleake

ClefferNotes said:


> Those measured tremolos and Sul G legato's are staggering!


That Sul G legato sounds great... a major reason why I am considering taking the plunge. Nice track, BTW.


----------



## Vik

Yes, the Sul G/Sul C, Super Sul Tasto and Marcato and Rachmaninovs are main arguments pro this library. Looking forward to reviews or walkthroughs which demonstrate in more detail than what's available now.


----------



## ClefferNotes

markleake said:


> That Sul G legato sounds great... a major reason why I am considering taking the plunge. Nice track, BTW.


Thanks a bunch! The library is amazing!


----------



## Polarity

Vik said:


> Yes, the Sul G/Sul C, Super Sul Tasto and Marcato and Rachmaninovs are main arguments pro this library. Looking forward to reviews or walkthroughs which demonstrate in more detail than what's available now.


+1 about those articulations...
also the sordino-normal blends sound great to me!
I sometimes used that layering trick myself but of course doubling the number of players involved
(not having libraries with divisi) and thickness.
Not that was always a problem for my style indeed


----------



## holywilly

How long did you guys wait for the verification of the purchase? I've made my purchase 8 hours ago and still haven't received any mails from spitfire. 

I just can't wait to use this library.


----------



## Hafer

Usually 1/2h, AFAIK


----------



## holywilly

Ok, just contact spitfire, thanks. I just don't wanna make double purchases.


----------



## ClefferNotes

Congrats on the purchase!

Mine was pretty much instant and then it took half hour for the download email to come through, have you checked your spam folder to make sure it isn't in there??


----------



## DocMidi657

holywilly said:


> Ok, just contact spitfire, thanks. I just don't wanna make double purchases.


Same here... 15 minutes to a 30 minutes always has been the case for me. Make sure you are not registered under two different emails with Spitfire. That caused me a minor delay a long time ago when ordering but was quickly resolved by them.


----------



## holywilly

Nothing in the spam folder, unfortunately. Wish to hear from spitfire team ASAP! I'm dying to play with SSS


----------



## holywilly

I received the mail within half an hour when purchasing chamber string, don't know what went wrong this time!


----------



## windyweekend

ClefferNotes said:


> Congrats on the purchase!
> 
> Mine was pretty much instant and then it took half hour for the download email to come through, have you checked your spam folder to make sure it isn't in there??



Same here. Instant confirmation, then 30 mins for download email (which I'm still holding off from touching for another 22 days!!!).


----------



## ClefferNotes

windyweekend said:


> Same here. Instant confirmation, then 30 mins for download email (which I'm still holding off from touching for another 22 days!!!).


Ooofff good luck with that! I had to do that with Sable last year (it was torture) but the wait was so worth it!!


----------



## heliosequence

holywilly said:


> I received the mail within half an hour when purchasing chamber string, don't know what went wrong this time!



I've had to wait half a day (multiple times) when using my credit card, while debit card transactions cleared in a half hour. Good luck!


----------



## Daniel F.

@Spitfire Team could I get a clear answer on something. Will the Legacy Legato patches be updated or are they done, we won't see any updates for them? Because I just noticed that they still have the old naming as Mural I think, at least it doesn't have the same naming as the rest of the patches. Naming consistency is a good thing but not something that makes it unusable. But they are also missing the fast legato which was added in SSS and it's not in the Legacy Patches. So will we see updates to the Legacy patches, the naming part is a small problem it just looks a little less coherent and professional, but it's more important to know if you will keep these up to date because it seems like you missed adding the new legato. So will this happen?

It also seems like there's some differences in layout compared to SCS. The main patches have different articulations compared to SCS. SCS has legato and some other arts while SSS have no legato and only longs why make them different? Why not keep it consistent all over the products?


----------



## tack

I do also hope the legacy legato patches remain fully maintained, but the naming does seem to suggest otherwise, doesn't it.

The performance legato patches are great -- especially with the latest update -- but sometimes you really do need to dial in the control. For me the ideal solution is a combined approach: a patch that basically Just Works but gives you the ability to override the engine when you need to. This is the best of both worlds.

Speaking of which, one small idea for the performance legato: support sustain pedal on CC64 and allow same-note rebowing when using the pedal.


----------



## jamwerks

Has it been announced anywhere when the Stereo mic mixes will be available for SSS?


----------



## utopia

I have a question to @Spitfire Team or anyone who knows. Sorry if this has been already discussed. Will the prices for crossgrades for mural owners change once the initial introductory price ends? If yes, where can I find the information on what will those prices be? Thanks


----------



## Spitfire Team

holywilly said:


> I received the mail within half an hour when purchasing chamber string, don't know what went wrong this time!



Hi Holy, if you go to the site, you'll see there is now a live chat option, they may be able to help you in real time. Best CH


----------



## Spitfire Team

utopia said:


> I have a question to @Spitfire Team or anyone who knows. Sorry if this has been already discussed. Will the prices for crossgrades for mural owners change once the initial introductory price ends? If yes, where can I find the information on what will those prices be? Thanks



They will go up by 25% which is the current intro promo.


----------



## utopia

got it, thanks for the quick reply!


----------



## Spitfire Team

Just a gentle reminder:

​​
​​​


----------



## Saxer

Thanks for the walkthrough!


----------



## Daniel F.

Still no clear answer about what will happen with the legacy legato patches? Will you at least add the fast legato to them? I read that Andy might look into combining the performance legato and the legacy in on patch. But that sounds like it will take a long time. I hope you will still update the legacy patches but from the way it seems you don't want to talk about it, I would guess no.

Or at least give the performance legato patches a speed slider so we can change the response of the legato. Sometimes I want to hear a lot more of the legato (like you can do with the legacy patches).

I have question about the differences between SCS and SSS. Will you make them more the same? For example if I load the main patch for Violins 1 I get different articulations compared to SSS. in SCS I get legato and longs and in SSS I get longs and longs cs. Imo it would better if I could just use the same midi data for both libraries and they do the same thing. Are you also going to name the legato performance patches legacy legato like in SSS?


----------



## Sean Beeson

I would love to know which/what mic positions Andy is using? I remember a long time ago, it being said he uses a custom (or maybe it was a tweaked?) ambient mic position?


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

Thanks for this: it addresses a number of questions that I had!
Any videos that discuss UACC and layering articulations?


----------



## kavinsky

great as usual, Andy


----------



## FredrikJonasson

@Spitfire Team I downloaded SSS but asked myself if, as a complete Mural owner, I have any big reasons to switch to SSS at this date? 
I'm looking forward to the outriggers, how will that be layed out gui-wise?
Just to be sure, do I get the expansion pack for free since I have all the Murals (this question applies to brass and woodwinds too)?

edit: My first question could perhaps be rephrased to if I actually loose something by switching, except the mics.


----------



## tokatila

FredrikJonasson said:


> @Spitfire Team I downloaded SSS but asked myself if, as a complete Mural owner, I have any reasons to switch to SSS?
> I'm looking forward to the outriggers, how will that be layed out gui-wise?
> Just to be sure, do I get the expansion pack for free since I have all the Murals (this question applies to brass and woodwinds too)?



I was also worried about outriggers, fearing that I would need to load a CTA instrument together with some other instrument containing Outriggers. 

Fortunately at least with Chamber Strings this isn't the case, you get you old trusted CTAO-instrument with them. I hope it will be the same thing with SSS.


----------



## FredrikJonasson

@tokatila What was the expansion pack plan, did you get it for free? If you had all the Sables beforehand that is?


----------



## tokatila

FredrikJonasson said:


> @tokatila What was the expansion pack plan, did you get it for free? If you had all the Sables beforehand that is?



Yes, I had all Sables including ensembles beforefand and yes I got it for free. (I think I have everything they have recorded in the hall, so I'm also getting other expansion packs automatically when they are released).


----------



## kavinsky

Hey guys
In SCS/Advanced/Individual/ I have all legato patches separately.
In SSS there are no separate legato patches whatsoever, only legacy legatos multi patch, but the new ones like "fast" are not included there.

Is there any particular reason for such inconsistency?
I'd like to have all legato patches separately like in SCS


----------



## ctsai89

kavinsky said:


> Hey guys
> In SCS/Advanced/Individual/ I have all legato patches separately.
> In SSS there are no separate legato patches whatsoever, only legacy legatos multi patch, but the new ones like "fast" are not included there.
> 
> Is there any particular reason for such inconsistency?
> I'd like to have all legato patches separately like in SCS



i was quite annoyed at the fact that "fast" wasn't included in the legacy legato performance patches and there doesn't seem to be a way other than keyswitch/cc for fingered to get to fast run legato. Hope they include it in an update soon.

I do love the new performance legato patches though, only thing i would wish is that there's medium vibrato.


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## kavinsky

ctsai89 said:


> i was quite annoyed at the fact that "fast" wasn't included in the legacy legato performance patches and there doesn't seem to be a way other than keyswitch/cc for fingered to get to fast run legato. Hope they include it in an update soon.
> 
> I do love the new performance legato patches though, only thing i would wish is that there's medium vibrato.


So this is it then. 
It's strange spitfire are not willing to comment on this issue.


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## Batrawi

Vik said:


> Are you sure? I'm confused. Are there both Legato Performance and Performance Legatos?


 @Vik 
Did you get any clear confirmation on this yet? Haven't gone through the whole thread but so far am seeing irrelevant responses to your inquiry that I share with you. 
Searched their website for SSS Legato Performance patch and wasn't able to find anything


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## ctsai89

kavinsky said:


> So this is it then.
> It's strange spitfire are not willing to comment on this issue.



well to be fair, i asked spitfire why they didn't include medium vibrato in SCS's newest legato patch and they answered something like "because medium vibrato would mean non vib and molto vib playing at the same time with volume adjusted" which im going to translate for you: "we're too lazy to program/record the normal vibrato in so you'll just have to deal with either using non vib or molto vib and no where in between, sorry"

Despite it though, SSS is my favorite string library by far. And that's in terms of playability, sound, versatility, expressiveness, and agility.


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## Vik

Yes, that's what I heard too: that the vibrato function has been simplified/limited since Mural, and also that the sliders which are supposed to control legato/portamento intensity and speed (see this: http://vi-control.net/community/threads/strings-favorite-legato-scripting.50684/page-2) has been been improved, but - removed. 
Here's another relevant thread: http://vi-control.net/community/threads/open-letter-to-spitfire-audio-no-legato-update.53266/


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## ctsai89

Vik said:


> Yes, that's what I heard too: that the vibrato function has been simplified/limited since Mural, and also that the sliders which are supposed to control legato/portamento intensity and speed (see this: http://vi-control.net/community/threads/strings-favorite-legato-scripting.50684/page-2) has been been improved, but - removed.
> Here's another relevant thread: http://vi-control.net/community/threads/open-letter-to-spitfire-audio-no-legato-update.53266/



I assume you still haven't bought SSS yet. SSS does have the same exact patch as mural vol. 1 + 2 + 3 combo legato patch in the legacy legato section. So they're not really "removed" but just on a different patch which means you will have to load an extra track for each instrument just so that you can write some more accurate vibrato/portamento speed, in which it will take up some more RAM since they're different patches.


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## N.Caffrey

ctsai89 said:


> I assume you still haven't bought SSS yet. SSS does have the same exact patch as mural vol. 1 + 2 + 3 combo legato patch in the legacy legato section. So they're not really "removed" but just on a different patch which means you will have to load an extra track for each instrument just so that you can write some more accurate vibrato/portamento speed, in which it will take up some more RAM since they're different patches.



I'd like to hear one of your composition with SSS


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## Vik

ctsai89 said:


> I assume you still haven't bought SSS yet. SSS does have the same exact patch as mural vol. 1 + 2 + 3 combo legato patch in the legacy legato section.


Sure, and those are the patches which have made me frustrated with Mural 1/2.



> So they're not really "removed" but just on a different patch which means you will have to load an extra track for each instrument just so that you can write some more accurate vibrato/portamento speed


No, I can't, because unlike eg the similar parameters in Berlin Strings, the Mural parameters hardly have any effect. SSS would have been a very interesting product for me if they allowed users to use the new legato scripting along with speed/intensity control.


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## ctsai89

Vik said:


> Sure, and those are the patches which have made me frustrated with Mural 1/2.
> 
> 
> No, I can't, because unlike eg the similar parameters in Berlin Strings, the Mural parameters hardly have any effect. SSS would have been a very interesting product for me if they allowed users to use the new legato scripting along with speed/intensity control.



i agree with you. But just use combination of both old and new legato patch. When you only need playability and agility you use the new patch, when you need true expressiveness in portamento and vibrato then you use the old patch whenever you have to, but go back to the new patch when you have no need to adjust the vibrato. I personally dont' have any problems with only using the new patch. It will be a bit more work than just having everything you need in the new patch but still, the new patch for me, beats any string patch out there (CSS comes close and would've been perfect with everything i need but the legato delay is too nasty for me to handle).


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## Quasar

Can anyone say at _exactly_ what time the intro deal expires on the 9th, GMT?


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## Vik

Does anyone here happen to know what the price for an upgrade from Mural 1/2 to SSS is with the current 40% EDU discount? I have looked at their pages, but haven't been able to find it. Thanks in advance.


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## ctsai89

Vik said:


> Does anyone here happen to know what the price for an upgrade from Mural 1/2 to SSS is with the current 40% EDU discount? I have looked at their pages, but haven't been able to find it. Thanks in advance.



I remember I bought it during the discount period and I had already owned mural volume 1. Which only earned me 100 off in addition to the intro discount. I suspect that you would get about 200~300 off?


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## JF

Vik said:


> Does anyone here happen to know what the price for an upgrade from Mural 1/2 to SSS is with the current 40% EDU discount? I have looked at their pages, but haven't been able to find it. Thanks in advance.


Vik, I believe if you add it to your cart it will show the crossgrade price. Then take the discounted price in your cart and determine 40% off.


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