# Tinnitus



## Kony (Apr 6, 2018)

I've had tinnitus all my life so I'm used to it. In my case, it's a very high pitched sine wave.... It can be frustrating when trying to mix, or compose quiet cues (especially with woodwind upper ranges).

I'm just wondering if any of you also have tinnitus, and if you have any tips or advice for how you deal with it.


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## sostenuto (Apr 6, 2018)

I have moderate Tinnitus and also fairly dramatic falloff above 4Khz. I now use more Spectrum Analyzers, Scopes, etc. BUT, do not have years of experience seeing, what I should be hearing.  
Maybe there are/or will be more Videos instructing how to better utilize these visual tools ?

Plugin Alliance current offer for _*bx_panEQ*_ @ $79. got my attention as a possible new tool. The (4) accompanying videos are interesting.
https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/bx_paneq.html

Bundled w/ _*bx_dynEQ V2*_ @ $99. is almost a no-brainer ..........


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## Divico (Apr 6, 2018)

Im lucky enough to be spared by this, although I had an intermitting tinnitus for a while. Maybe Equing out the frequency is a solution for you. Listening to music with the given freqency removed from the track is also used in treating tinnitus.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Apr 6, 2018)

After a loud concert about seven years ago I started having an issue where I hear a popping or crackling sound in both ears every time I swallow. After seeing several ENT specialists over the years I recently and at long last received an actual diagnosis of a condition called patulous eustachian tubes. Fortunately it doesn't affect my hearing and is relatively benign, but unfortunately there's not much they can do about it, at least that I've found so far. I sometimes feel quite depressed when I think about it, but for the most part I've gotten used to living with it. I remember seeing an interview with Simon Franglen (who wears hearing aids), I believe on Pensado's Place, and he had such a positive attitude about his condition — it was a great reminder that we're all just doing the best we can with the cards we're dealt. Our immortal beloved Beethoven didn't let anything stop him.

Needless to say I always carry "protection" in my wallet now, and bring fresh earplugs for friends when I know we're going to be somewhere loud.


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## Divico (Apr 6, 2018)

jrgillam said:


> Needless to say I always carry "protection" it my wallet now, and bring fresh earplugs for friends when I know we're going to be somewhere loud.


Me too. I always have a pair of concert plugs for my gf with me aswell


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## Ron Kords (Apr 6, 2018)

Kony said:


> I've had tinnitus all my life so I'm used to it. In my case, it's a very high pitched sine wave.... It can be frustrating when trying to mix, or compose quiet cues (especially with woodwind upper ranges).
> 
> I'm just wondering if any of you also have tinnitus, and if you have any tips or advice for how you deal with it.


I had some ops on my ear when I was a kid. Thankfully no permanent damage or tinnitus but at the time I'd get frequent ringing.

I found that whenever I got a ringing or tone in my ears I could make it go away by imagining / visualising the same note. It's almost like singing the same note in my head - the same principle as talking to yourself in your own voice. It still works for me now and within 5/10 seconds.

Not sure if this works for something more permanent but worth a go perhaps.

Appreciate it's a horrible thing to live with :-( hopefully a big interest in music gives you some respite...


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## Saxer (Apr 6, 2018)

I had a tinnitus in my right ear after a sudden deafness in 2000. It disappeared after a while (years) and now there's only some noise level left (like an empty cassette tape). It left a small cut at 8KHz but at the frequency around F3 I hear distortion from a medium loudness level up. Especially in strings and choirs.

Every few month or so I hear different pitches in my right and left ear. Right ear is about a half step lower. People talking sounds like Borg (Startrek) and music is detuned throughout. Even one single piano note sounds completely detuned. Left ear hears A and right ear hears Ab. This phenomenon appears, lasts about two hours and disappears.

If this happens I have to stop working and simply wait. I try not to overuse my ears. Avoiding stress. Lot of rests and no background noise like TV or radio. Reading and writing in a forum is luckily very quiet.


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## AlexRuger (Apr 6, 2018)

Mine's terrible. A very loud slightly out of tune b9 in my right ear and another different tone in my left.

Really fucked me up last year when it came on, but now things are okay. Stoic philosophy helped immensely (and then some).


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## synthpunk (Apr 6, 2018)

Hope you guys have seen a good E.N.T. doctor.

I hope things improve and are bearable for you who suffer through this. 

Knock on wood I've been lucky but always use hearing protection live since the mid 80s, never ever unless I have to just for a few seconds use headphones. When mixing I use a monitor that is not overly bright in the highs and try and not listen louder than 87 DB get a free app on your phone.

See a ENT once a year and have your ears professionally cleaned and checked.


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## robgb (Apr 6, 2018)

Kony said:


> I'm just wondering if any of you also have tinnitus, and if you have any tips or advice for how you deal with it.


I've had it for several years now. High pitched ringing. Worse sometimes than others. Mostly, I just don't think about it. In fact, I forget I have it until someone mentions it. Thanks. 

Oh, also, my ENT told me my eardrums don't move. Not something he was concerned about, but it usually means fluid on the ears. No treatment.

I think I need a new ENT.


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## Kyle Preston (Apr 6, 2018)

1800Hz is a real problem for me. Have had it for 3 or 4 years now. Staying hydrated helps - I actually do notice a difference. Meditating is probably the biggest help though. It doesn’t reduce the ringing but it reduces my instinct to pay too much attention to it. 

I have a friend that does acupuncture and says it helps for a day or two after a session. Don’t know about the research on that, but I believe him. 

Oh, and being friendly to people on web forums helps


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## Kony (Apr 6, 2018)

Thank you all for the great advice, tips and anecdotes!

I forgot to mention my tinnitus sometimes fluctuates frequency like a short wave radio sound. I consulted a number of therapists years ago, which was when a homeopath told that my tinnitus had been caused by an infection like mumps/measles when I was an infant (I had mumps), and that the virus is still in my system. I know it sounds like a bizarre theory but might explain the frequency fluctuation.


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## SchnookyPants (Apr 6, 2018)

The only time mine bothers me is when I think about it.... *ACHKKK!* _I gotta' get outta' here!_


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## JPQ (Apr 6, 2018)

I have tinnitus which is non common one i mean stuff what musicans often have.changes little when move my hand,feet or even close my eyes or anything like that. One tinnitus specialist says is neck and back when i tell few facts. another says he never heared neck and back based tinnitus.
and i think is related maybe even area which is dead in my brains which is area where is movie,hearing and something else. dead are is based fact have thick umbilical cord in my arround neck when i birth.
Ps. text tools sucks i have problem with underline here becouse i copied word form translator.


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## jmauz (Apr 7, 2018)

I started playing drums when I was 5. I started using hearing protection when I was 16. As you've probably guessed I've had tinnitus for a very long time. It's mostly a hissing than a definite tone, but certain things make it worse:

1. Caffeine. Yes, this Fucking sucks.
2. Aspirin.
3. Alcohol.
4. Stress.

I've learned to live with it...in fact even in silent moments I don't really notice it unless I try.


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## lokotus (Apr 7, 2018)

- all what jmauz + no coco cola + no smoking 
- get enough sleep
- don't listen to headphones a lot or too loud music in general
- google anti-inflammatory nutrition & salad with every meal
- drinks like google Lemon Ginger Blast Preparation by Lou Corona every morning and google liferegenerator
- get rid of the bad stuff like jmauz said + no wheat + not too much GMO + not too much sugar ....
- more Sports (fitness, running, swimming...)
- fresh air (are your cells supposed to be nourished by air from hot electronics ?
- this helped me regain my hearing after two hearing loss and ged rid of my tinnitus - and it helped some other issues as well like spine problems
- and yes, it takes time and discipline - but the body is not made for 10+ hours of sitting in front of loud speakers or practising an instrument in one stiff body position...
- doctors won't tell you that since a) a lot of them don't know about the effect (bad) nutrition has on your body and b) they fill you up with medicine (like in my case in the hospital) which is not a long time solution but might help if one is experience sudden tinitus or hearing loss...
- even if they tell you they won't insist on how important that stuff is, mainly because the people I met don't have time to talk or analyse my lifestyle ...
- i´d say priorities are 1) sleep 2) nutrition 3) air 4) sport
- any more people having some advice ?


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## South Thames (Apr 7, 2018)

SchnookyPants said:


> The only time mine bothers me is when I think about it.... *ACHKKK!* _I gotta' get outta' here!_



Yup. Regretting seeing this thread right now.

Had mine for three years now. First 5-6 months were hellish, mainly due to lack of sleep and anxiety. In the beginning it can be difficult to separate the effect of tinnitus itself from the mental anguish it can put you through before you habitutate.

But, slowly, I did habitutate (which basically means the anxiety/preoccupation with it goes away, and tinnitus just becomes a noise that the brain interprets more or less neutrally) and now it's really just an occasional annoyance, and actually is something I'm only rarely consciously aware of, particularly whilst working on music. I find the place I notice it most is in cars on motorways -- the low rumble seems to throw my high-pitched sine tone into relief. On the odd occasion it bothers me I can usually snap out of it by turning my concentration elsewhere.

Lots of mention of ENTs here, but all an ENT can really do is look for obvious reversible causes of tinnitus -- wax build-up, conductive hearing loss etc -- but the truth is most times tinnitus is caused by (irreversible) sensory hearing loss (and it would be an audiologist, not an ENT who diagnoses that) and there's nothing an ENT can really do. One thing I found most useful was a referral to a hearing therapist, who help you to manage the emotional impact of it.


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## tsk (Apr 7, 2018)

synthpunk said:


> Knock on wood I've been lucky but always use hearing protection live since the mid 80s, never ever unless I have to just for a few seconds use headphones. When mixing I use a monitor that is not overly bright in the highs and try and not listen louder than 87 DB get a free app on your phone.





lokotus said:


> - don't listen to headphones a lot or too loud music in general



Very interested to hear why some are advising not to use headphones - could you provide some more information on that?

I use headphones a lot, but in a quiet location and most of the time at very low volumes - like sometimes I can barely even hear the music (I'm not kidding). Is this ok?


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## Kony (Apr 7, 2018)

robgb said:


> I think I need a new ENT.


I know a good Ent you could see....





... I'll get my coat


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## South Thames (Apr 7, 2018)

tsk said:


> Very interested to hear why some are advising not to use headphones - could you provide some more information on that?
> 
> I use headphones a lot, but in a quiet location and most of the time at very low volumes - like sometimes I can barely even hear the music (I'm not kidding). Is this ok?



Volume is key, as to some extent is size. I'm pretty sure I brought on tinnitus by using over-ear headphones (usually the most powerful, since they are largest) at higher volumes than I should have (which isn't to say it was necessarily obviously loud -- bear in mind hearing loss is often a cumulative thing), which is basically like taping a small speaker to both sides of your head. 

If the volume is low then you should be ok. 

These days I only listen to speech on headphones. Music is strictly from speakers and at moderate volume.


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## JeffvR (Apr 7, 2018)

I have it too. What helps for me the most is not thinking about it. Not read about it, not talk about it, ignore it. I did a "dry january" twice. Although it might be a placebo effect I got the impression it helped to make the beep less intense after a couple of weeks. As a sport I cycle, it helps a bit. After the workout it's less intense. MDMA helps too (seriously, google it), but that's not really a good advice :D. It's never completely gone but some things seem to work for me, even if it's a placebo.

To not make it worse, I always take my custom ear plugs with me. Wherever I go. You might end up in a bar where music is played (too) loud. I playback at speech volume, I just got used to that level and it's perfectly fine for me. I almost never use headphones.


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## synthpunk (Apr 7, 2018)

A little bit of common sense goes a long way.

Headphones at loud volumes = 110-115 db
Jet Plane Taking Off = 120 db

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/generation-deaf-doctors-warn-dangers-ear-buds-n360041

I use the same rule I use with studio monitors and speakers. I shoot for about 87 db max. 

Hearing test


When working/attending live events wear hearing protection. Even $2 ear plugs can protect your hearing.



tsk said:


> Very interested to hear why some are advising not to use headphones - could you provide some more information on that?
> 
> I use headphones a lot, but in a quiet location and most of the time at very low volumes - like sometimes I can barely even hear the music (I'm not kidding). Is this ok?


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## Henu (Apr 7, 2018)

I've been playing loud metal music since the beginning of the 90's and toured actively until the mid- 2000's. I don't think there hasn't been a single instance of me _not_ wearing earplugs at rehearsals or on stage, which I am really grateful at myself. My father was a professional drummer and some of his friends suffered from tinnitus already back in the 80's so I have pretty much always been very informed about the dangers of hear loss.

Once when we were teenagers, my uncle (who had tinnitus) had a tone generator and he showed us exactly the frequency that was yelling inside his ears and also a vague idea of the volume of it's ringing. Needless to say, that was rather eye- opening horror story experience for a young mind.

The best earplugs for me are still the good old €1 yellow EAR- foams. I usually never squeeze them unless in a REALLY loud enviroment but just push them as far as they go without morphing them. The high frequencies are what really kill your ears, and the more you can damp those the better.


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## audiophobic (Apr 7, 2018)

Good to see this being discussed. I have heavy tinnitus and hearing loss in the right ear and some tinnitus in the left - just developed over a few years with no obvious cause. The three biggest difficulties for me when composing are a lack of stereo field, not being able to properly hear the air in reverbs and any dense layers of sound just seeming like a wall of noise - as a result I’ve been driven towards very sparse open composition.

I have a hearing aid for my right ear but it is next to useless, certainly for listening/mixing - all it does is add a harsh noise. As a musician I’ve found audiologists are almost competely focussed on spoken word - there seems to be nothing out there aimed at improving the quality of sound. It’s fairly scary how little seems to be known about both tinnitus and hearing loss, other than “sorry, it’s irreversable”

The biggest challenge however is conveying to others how devastating it is when one of the core things in your life is progressivley taken away, let alone getting prospective employers to work with you...

Andy


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## tmhuud (May 8, 2018)

Has anyone taken Lyrica for their tinnitus? My Dr. Prescribed it. Took it today for the first time and felt a bit dizzy. Its a known side effect but I wondered if anyone here has taken it and had the side effects diminish over time.


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## WindcryMusic (May 8, 2018)

I have a double whammy when it comes to tinnitus: tinnitus and hearing loss left over from playing in loud hard rock bands through much of the 1980's, followed by my having developed bilateral Meniere's disease (probably more correct to describe it as AIED, or auto-immune inner ear disease) about a dozen years later. Even at the best of times I have very high-frequency tinnitus in both ears (which I've had for so long that I hardly notice it anymore, even though it is always audible). But when the Meniere's acts up, the tinnitus can turn into louder, lower, multiple pitches, or even a roaring, white noise sound in one ear at the worst (not to mention the continuous dizziness that accompanies such episodes, which doesn't directly affect my hearing but sure makes it difficult to function as a musician or much of anything else).

Like a few others in this thread, over the last several years I too have had episodes where I hear the wrong pitches in the affected ear ... where the beep of the microwave is like a minor 3rd different in one ear vs. the other. Usually during those episodes, hearing music or sound in general is too uncomfortable, and I try to remain in silence as much as possible. It is always deeply disturbing and discouraging, but at the same time it has always resolved itself after 4 to 6 days or thereabouts, so I just do my best to remain patient and wait it out when it happens. And I try to avoid the foods that seem to trigger these outbreaks (food allergies/sensitivities are almost always to blame for my Meniere's/AIED episodes, and my diet has become *extremely* restricted in an effort to control it).

I have to rely more upon visual aids for balancing the frequency spectrum of my mixes than I would if my hearing was more reliable, but I also keep trying to train myself as to what a good mix sounds like to my damaged hearing. It is a constant battle, and one I regard as my biggest hurdle whenever I'm trying to produce results that are expected to please an audience with better hearing than my own.


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## Nuno (May 8, 2018)

I would recommend everyone to try acupuncture. Tinnitus is a nervous system disorder and acupuncture is excellent to bring the nervous system back to the parasympathetic mode.


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## dflood (May 8, 2018)

I got tinnitus as a kid from a complication of the measles. Yes - I am so old there wasn’t even a vaccine yet. Mostly I have learned to ignore it although there have been times when it has driven me to panic. Wearing headphones does seem to exacerbate it or make it more noticeable. I think we may suffer more than most with this because we are so acutely aware of what we are hearing

I know of nothing to make it better but drugs like Aleve, aspirin and ibuprofen can definitely make it worse!


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## RiffWraith (May 8, 2018)

I have something for all of you. It's something that most people do not think about.

Clean your phones regularly. Your landlines AND your cellphones. Studies have shown that many phones test positive for potential disease-causing microbes and fecal matter. Not all tinnitus is caused by bacteria and viruses, but it _can be_. Plus, an already present case of tinnitus can be made worse by bacteria and viruses.

*CLEAN YOUR PHONES*


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## StephenForsyth (May 8, 2018)

I'm always stunned by how loud live concerts are, I immensely dislike them honestly and usually avoid them for that reason. My sister got me some tickets for air at the opera house for a gift a few months back and within 15 seconds of the first song I could feel my ears _reacting_ to deal with the sound pressure so I was hunting around in my jacket for spare earplugs (motorcyclist) almost immediately. 

They were -30dB foamies and it was still incredibly loud, I don't get the point.


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## SchnookyPants (May 8, 2018)

RiffWraith said:


> I have something for all of you. It's something that most people do not think about.
> 
> Clean your phones regularly. Your landlines AND your cellphones. Studies have shown that many phones test positive for potential disease-causing microbes and fecal matter. Not all tinnitus is caused by bacteria and viruses, but it _can be_. Plus, an already present case of tinnitus can be made worse by bacteria and viruses.
> 
> *CLEAN YOUR PHONES*



I _knew_ it! All those dirty phone calls.


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## AlexRuger (May 8, 2018)

JeffvR said:


> I always take my custom ear plugs with me. Wherever I go. You might end up in a bar where music is played (too) loud.



I do this too! It's saved my ass so many times...at the movie theater, randomly getting invited to a show, even just walking down the street in LA. I usually wear them at least once a day.


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## soundbylaura (May 23, 2018)

I've had high-pitched tinnitus for many years - listened to my Walkman too loud as a teen. Just in the last few weeks it seems to have gotten louder, plus a bit of pressure in my ears. I'm hoping it's just allergies but made an appointment with an ENT & Audiologist just to be sure. I know it's never going to go away but I'd sure like it to drop down to its previous level. Before the recent volume increase it really didn't bother me - the price I pay for the audio sins of my youth. But now that it's louder I find it troubles me when I'm trying to sleep - both the sound itself plus my worry about my hearing.

I'll also throw in that I've got TMJ which causes pain in my left ear when I (try to) sleep on my left side. It SUCKS.

It got me thinking about what I can/should do should I start to lose my hearing (I should note I did an informal test and can still hear up to 13700hz which I think is pretty good for a 48-year old former hair metal lover, and I can still hear small, tiny sounds and distant sounds). I've been working in video game audio for about 10 years now and am considering shifting my focus to game audio implementation as a way to prepare for the future.

I bought custom fitted earplugs when I was 27 and I wear them all the time. I have foamies stashed in my car and in various bags for emergencies (bars, etc).


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## Kony (May 28, 2018)

soundbylaura said:


> I'll also throw in that I've got TMJ which causes pain in my left ear when I (try to) sleep on my left side. It SUCKS.


Sorry to hear that! I had my TMJ realigned by a Bowen therapist. If you're interested, you can find one in your country from this website:

http://www.bowtech.com/WebsiteProj/Pages/About/Welcome.aspx


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## alexballmusic (May 28, 2018)

Really interesting to read how many people have it. And also not surprising given how stupidly loud live music is.

I started playing on bands as a teenager and was gigging seriously by the age of 17. My ears rang after gigs and I just thought it was normal. It always left. Then one day a couple of months before my 19th birthday I was brushing my teeth one night and could hear this noise. After searching around to hear where it was coming from, I realised it was my ears. It never left.

I got ear plugs and carried on, but it got worse and worse and my hearing became overly sensitive. And then there were a couple of horrible feedback moments on stage that finished me off. At just 20 years old I had to quit gigging for good. The other band members still gig to this day without issues.

Ironically, via some other tangents, it lead me to pursue a career as a composer and I've been a full time musician for over a decade now. But I can't gig, or really go to gigs (even with custom 26db ear plugs) and I have to keep volumes low in the studio and be very careful with headphones whilst tracking.

I work around it, but it's bad. Several pitches of hissing and humming in both ears and there's a reasonable chance I'll have hearing aids at an earlier stage than most.

Lessons - always, always, always, always wear earplugs. Don't play stupidly loud, it doesn't sound better and it wrecks your hearing forever!

One trick I use at night (when most people find it's most intrusive) is to have a mundane mental task. I personally list all of Lewis Hamilton's F1 wins from 2007 to the present day. I usually get to about 2011 - 12 and I'm asleep. Anything like that will do the trick - listing the controls on your favourite synth or all of the modes of the major scale or whatever.

But anyway, interesting to read others stories and advice. Thanks for posting.


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## Daniel (May 29, 2018)

ka00 said:


> As far as the ENTs have told me, there is no cure or treatment for tinnitus at present.


+1 
but life is too short if we always think about it.




Nuno said:


> ......Tinnitus is a nervous system disorder .....


+1


I know about Tinnitus, it caused by:
external caused : big damage volume level.
internal caused: not sleeping, stress, unbalance life etc., blood pressure, high collesterol, 
people like us using DAW everyday who always sit and sit everyday working (without sport activity)

Becareful man.

Solution from me:
do not think about it! You will get stress or crazy. Enjoy live with it, first sleeping you can play your favourite calm music until you sleep.

I can handle it from 2006 until now


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## dflood (May 4, 2019)

ka00 said:


> EDIT: Just catching up on other helpful posts in this thread now. Sorry for the comments/questions that seem to have already been covered.
> 
> On a side note, has anyone else noticed that their tinnitus intensity or pitch can fluctuate when yawning or when chewing some hard piece of food? As if the jaw joint is having some effect on the sound? I've read tinnitus can be related to improper jaw/bite alignment.



Absolutely. I can reliably change the the intensity of the ringing by simply extending my jaw. It must be deforming something in the inner ear, or affecting nerves. Makes you wonder if that isn't a clue to some avenue of treatment?


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## sostenuto (May 4, 2019)

Hmmmm …… No change whatsoever here as hi-freg ( >4Khz) remains steady no matter what jaw is doing.
Meditator (TM) for 40 yrs + later awareness /mindfulness practices. Good stuff, just questionable effect on Tinnitus. Long periods when completely unaware.

Efforts have long been tinny ……


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## robgb (May 4, 2019)

Kony said:


> I'm just wondering if any of you also have tinnitus, and if you have any tips or advice for how you deal with it.


I've had it for a couple of decades now, but other than get used to it, I have no tips unfortunately. Some days it's worse than others. I've tried some of the solutions on Youtube, but they are temporary fixes at best. Fortunately, most of the time I forget I have it.


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## Mornats (May 4, 2019)

ka00 said:


> On a side note, has anyone else noticed that their tinnitus intensity or pitch can fluctuate when yawning or when chewing some hard piece of food? As if the jaw joint is having some effect on the sound? I've read tinnitus can be related to improper jaw/bite alignment.



Yep, movement of my jaw changes the pitch and intensity quite a bit. I also find that if I hold my breath and focus on the ringing then I can make it sound quieter but only briefly.


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## NekujaK (May 4, 2019)

I got tinnitus in my right ear about 15 years ago - a high-pitched whine. What's interesting is I would occasionally get similar ringing, but only lasting 1-2 minutes at a time, throughout my life, but this time it stuck I guess.

In the first year, the sound and pitch fluctuated over time, but then stabilized. Most days, I don't notice it unless I think about it, but every now and then it flares up and reaches distracting volumes that last 3-5 days.

Things that aggravate it:
- Listening to loud music
- Mixing for prolonged periods of time, even at moderate volumes. It's so important to take breaks and let my ears rest.
- Taking a nap! 9 times out of 10, when I wake up from a short nap, the ringing is super loud and intense. Fortunately, the increased intensity usually only lasts for about an hour. Interestingly, I don't experience this when waking up in the morning from "normal" sleep.

A good friend of mine is a notable rock musician from the 60s-70s who now runs a modest studio when he's not touring. He has tinnitus in both ears, and yet, still records and mixes beautiful tracks for clients that range from jazz and folk to rock. It's been very inspiring to see him completely undaunted by his condition.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 4, 2019)

Nuno said:


> I would recommend everyone to try acupuncture. Tinnitus is a nervous system disorder and acupuncture is excellent to bring the nervous system back to the parasympathetic mode.



It can be, but it can also be cochlear damage, which I can't imagine would be helped by acupuncture. There are many other causes too.

What I wonder is whether everyone in the noisy modern world develops it, i.e. not just musicians. My hunch is that the stats are the same.

I've had very mild, intermittent tinnitus since my mid-40s. It's triggered by broadband noise, for example if I go into a crowded restaurant with lots of hard surfaces. Fortunately I'm not conscious of it - it doesn't bother me when it happens.

...although the noisy people in restaurants bother me a lot! Don't parents teach their children that everyone doesn't need to hear them scream-laugh-with-clapping? Mine did, and we taught our daughter not to do that! Shut the f up!

Also, I have 15dB custom-molded earplugs. They're more for my comfort than hearing protection - my ears are calibrated at a lower level than most people's, to the point that most movies are uncomfortably loud. But contrary to advertising, their response isn't even - they do knock down the high freqs (even after I replaced the filters).


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## dzilizzi (May 4, 2019)

Mine gets worse or better depending on how much wax I have in my ears. Also being in noisy environments. Though to be truthful, I don't notice it until I'm back in a quiet place. It will slowly die down to a barely there ringing, though right now it is very noticeable after spending 4 hours on a very loud plane yesterday.


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## agarner32 (May 4, 2019)

dflood said:


> Absolutely. I can reliably change the the intensity of the ringing by simply extending my jaw. It must be deforming something in the inner ear, or affecting nerves. Makes you wonder if that isn't a clue to some avenue of treatment?


I'll add my name to the list as a tinnitus sufferer. Mornats, I can also change the intensity but for me it's clinching my teeth.

I've had a high pitched sound in both ears since my late teens and I'm 61. I'm sure it's from being in bands. Fortunately it has remained about the same - knock on wood. Like others I've learned to ignore it, but at night it's not easy. I always sleep with a white noise machine and even travel with it.

This might sound weird, but several years ago I decided to focus on the sound rather than trying to ignore it. I actually embrace it as part of who I am and most of the time I can just accept it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 4, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Mine gets worse or better depending on how much wax I have in my ears. Also being in noisy environments. Though to be truthful, I don't notice it until I'm back in a quiet place. It will slowly die down to a barely there ringing, though right now it is very noticeable after spending 4 hours on a very loud plane yesterday.



This is why God created the Bose Quiet Comfort headphones. I have the Quiet Comfort 3 ones from a few years ago, but presumably the newer models are even better.

They knock the engine noise way down even if you're not listening to music (or watching a film), but when you are it's total bliss. These headphones aren't what I'd call hyped, but they have the bass boost you need to hear the lower freqs. And it's like they turned up the woofer rather than using an equalizer.

It totally changes the experience of flying. I went all the way to Australia a few years ago and just loved the flight. When else do you get to listen to music intensely for 12+ hours?

One of the best products ever, audio or not.


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## dflood (May 4, 2019)

Mine began as a complication of the measles when I was about 7 years old. That was about 55 years ago and I’ve had it ever since. It’s always there, it just waxes and wanes in my consciousness, so of course it’s raging right now as I write this. For any antivaxers out there, I also developed encephalitis which nearly killed me. 

Some drugs such as Aleve can really make my tinnitus flare up. I think this points to a physical or organic cause rather than just a ‘wiring’ or brain problem. Wearing earplugs or headphones makes it worse. One of my greater fears is of some day going deaf but still having the bloody tinnitus! I wish they would make some headway into the underlying mechanisms and better treatments.


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## charlieclouser (May 4, 2019)

I went to the excellent House Ear Clinic here in LA, who many say is the best in the world - heads of state, famous actors + musicians, etc. go there. In conversation with my doctor a few interesting points came up:

1 - *Hearing* is a mechanical process, but *listening* is a mental process. When I was concerned that some loss of high frequency response in one ear might affect my composing / sound designing / mixing ability, the doc and I had a long philosophical conversation about this theory, and he thought that it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. I thought I might be putting more HF energy on the left because my left ear was down a bit at 8k, and he doubted that this would happen and told me to check back in a year. I did, and he was right. The mind can compensate pretty massively for deficiencies in the mechanical device (the ear). There was no change in my workflow, and I wasn't "struggling to eq tambourine tracks" or "panning the shakers further to the left" or anything like that. In practice, while working, I never notice what, on graphs, looks like a serious roll-off above 8k in one ear.

2 - Similarly, sensitivity to the "high-pitched tone" of tinnitus - how annoying it is, or how much it drives you crazy - is massively dependent on your mental state / process, how much you allow yourself to pay attention to it. When I think about it, I can definitely hear "a tv on in the next room" and I can even use a test oscillator to locate the exact frequency and level of that tone. But do I notice it? Uhhh.... I guess so, if I think about it. Does it drive me to the brink of madness? Meh. Not yet. Would I love to live on a cliff above the crashing waves which could drown out that tone? Yup. Will I stab icepicks through my head and leap from a bridge if I can't make these noises staaaaahp! Nah. It is what it is. No biggie. According to the tests and graphs at the House Ear Clinic, I've got it, and it's not subtle. But luckily my *mind* doesn't focus on the flat tire that my *ear* has - and this is the best (and only) prescription that the world-class docs at HEC could give - just "don't think about it". He did say that some patients are driven to the brink of madness by tinnitus, and there's very little that can be done outside of the above prescription. The quick fixes you can find on Youtube, like the "drumming fingers at the base of the neck" trick, can work to varying degrees but are very temporary - the effects last for a few minutes, if that.

3 - Although not directly related to "treating" tinnitus, I did ask if there are any nutritional supplements that have any effect on ear health and/or the healing and resiliency of the mechanical portion of the hearing process, and he actually said that there are, in fact, two supplements that have been empirically shown to help. These results came primarily from very large-scale tests done by the military on tens of thousands of soldiers who stand next to big exploding things and who also swallow whatever pills sarge tells them to swallow. The two compounds in question are:

- Magnesium supplements. Up to, but NOT exceeding, twice the US RDA. 1x RDA is usually sufficient as most diets are somewhat magnesium deficient. A little more doesn't hurt, but going beyond 2x RDA can have complex and unexpected interactions with other dietary factors, and should be avoided. He recommended nothing more than making sure I was maintaining a solid 1x, and not to worry about going a little bit over, but don't just chomp on handfuls of the darn things, and make sure not to exceed 2x.

- An amino acid called "N-Acetyl L Cysteine", usually abbreviated as NAC. The body synthesizes this amino acid, but depending on various dietary factors the levels in the body can vary, so supplements (usually in capsules of 600mg or so) can be taken to augment these levels. Available wherever vitamins and supplements are sold.

Doc told me that both of these supplements have been shown to improve recovery time from various levels of hearing damage or ear infection, in those cases where recovery is even possible. Most hearing loss and tinnitus in our situations is due to age and continued exposure to too-loud "braams" and thus will not respond to such a simple fix in the same way that the ears of a young, resilient, still-growing, 19-year-old Gunner's Mate Second Class will - but, hey... these supplements are cheap and can't really hurt.

(Note that I am not a doctor, and I am definitely not *your* doctor, so consult your own physician before undertaking any regimen of supplements or treatment.)

Other than that, ain't nothing we can do about it - just "don't let it drive you crazy".


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 4, 2019)

charlieclouser said:


> I went to the excellent House Ear Clinic here in LA, who many say is the best in the world



That is their reputation, and I'm sure it's deserved most of the time.

I went there recently with a relative who has some hearing loss. The ENT she saw, when the one she was scheduled with had to cancel (and they didn't get the phone number right to let her know), was... well, never mind.

However, their audiologist in Encino, who they referred her to for hearing aids, is excellent.


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## Kony (May 4, 2019)

charlieclouser said:


> Magnesium supplements. Up to, but NOT exceeding, twice the US RDA. 1x RDA is usually sufficient as most diets are somewhat magnesium deficient. A little more doesn't hurt, but going beyond 2x RDA can have complex and unexpected interactions with other dietary factors, and should be avoided. He recommended nothing more than making sure I was maintaining a solid 1x, and not to worry about going a little bit over, but don't just chomp on handfuls of the darn things, and make sure not to exceed 2x.
> 
> - An amino acid called "N-Acetyl L Cysteine", usually abbreviated as NAC. The body synthesizes this amino acid, but depending on various dietary factors the levels in the body can vary, so supplements (usually in capsules of 600mg or so) can be taken to augment these levels. Available wherever vitamins and supplements are sold.


Thanks for the tip @charlieclouser - I'll give these a go!



ka00 said:


> I’ve order custom 15 dB ear plugs


I've also got custom -15dBs plugs and they work really well - ie not too much muffle. These are also good to use on flights


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## Ben (May 4, 2019)

I am not even 30 and have it for ~10 years. I have a constant sine tone on both ears with 2-3 high frequencies. I always need something to focus on so I don't notice it. Otherwise it drives me crazy.
When I get a heavy cold, I loose my musical hearing; if it is a mild cold, stress or too little sleep, the tinnitus just gets louder, so I can't ignore it without the help of other noise: when I'm at home and don't doing music or mixing I'm constantly listing to quiet music or a podcast. But I go mad when I hear other random noises in the background (deep humming for example). Other things that work for me besides music are walks in nature, the sound of rain, or sometimes absolut silence (noise cancellation on max settings).
I should probably go to see a doctor, but besides "not having time", I absolutly hate going to a doctor...


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## dzilizzi (May 4, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> This is why God created the Bose Quiet Comfort headphones. I have the Quiet Comfort 3 ones from a few years ago, but presumably the newer models are even better.
> 
> They knock the engine noise way down even if you're not listening to music (or watching a film), but when you are it's total bliss. These headphones aren't what I'd call hyped, but they have the bass boost you need to hear the lower freqs. And it's like they turned up the woofer rather than using an equalizer.
> 
> ...


I normally use noise reducing headphones but my last pair recently stopped working. I picked up a pair of ear bud ones and they actually worked well. Unfortunately, I forgot to pull them out of my bag before takeoff and was stuck until the seatbelt sign went off. Then I had to charge them for about 10 minutes. Probably not as good as the Bose, but 1/10 the price.


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## AlexRuger (May 5, 2019)

dflood said:


> Absolutely. I can reliably change the the intensity of the ringing by simply extending my jaw. It must be deforming something in the inner ear, or affecting nerves. Makes you wonder if that isn't a clue to some avenue of treatment?


Go see someone about this right now. Your tinnitus is probably treatable or even curable. 

I'll save you a shitload of time and energy seeing doctors: you're probably somehow causing inflammation at your TMJ, most likely by clenching your jaw and/or grinding your teeth while you sleep. For me, the clenching is caused by sleep apnea (when I stop breathing, my mouth involuntarily clenches -- fun stuff), and it took me _forever _and god knows how much money seeing doctors to figure out that a couple of my tones were caused by this. After treating my sleep apnea by wearing a mouth splint while I sleep, the tones in my ears got significantly quieter (and my sleep way more restful -- huge bonus). And there's a noticeable rise in volume and intensity if I forget to wear my splint for a couple nights in a row. Unfortunately this only affects the tones "in my ears," but not the tones "in my head" (i.e. the "tube TV" sound), as those are definitely caused by exposure to loud noises. I've got the very visible high end rolloff like Charlie, too. 

Fun story, my dad let me borrow his hearing aids to see what I've been missing, and it was pretty mind-blowing...it was raining at the time, and I thought that the windows much be thick or something because I couldn't hear the rain on them. And then I put on the hearing aids and heard the rain clearly...pretty shocking. 

Anyways, if you're in LA, see Michael Simmons (in Encino and I think also has an office on the west side). He's a specialist in this exact thing.


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## MartinH. (May 5, 2019)

charlieclouser said:


> and this is the best (and only) prescription that the world-class docs at HEC could give - just "don't think about it".



+1, this helped me a lot too. 

Reading this thread makes it worse :D.

I think I've also heard about a treatment method where they create a custom white noise on the frequency that the tinitus has, but louder, and then you're supposed to listen to that on headphones for a looong time basically non-stop, and when you're done your brain is supposed to have lowered the sensitivity to that frequency enough to make the tinitus ringing go away. Maybe like it's EQed out on the "mental" side of hearing? I don't know how long-term the results are or what possible drawbacks are, but it might be worth investigating for anyone interested.


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## Ben (May 5, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> I think I've also heard about a treatment method where they create a custom white noise on the frequency that the tinitus has, but louder, and then you're supposed to listen to that on headphones for a looong time basically non-stop, and when you're done your brain is supposed to have lowered the sensitivity to that frequency enough to make the tinitus ringing go away. Maybe like it's EQed out on the "mental" side of hearing? I don't know how long-term the results are or what possible drawbacks are, but it might be worth investigating for anyone interested.


I have read something about it too. If it helps you have to re-do it after some time to re-adjust.


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## DavidY (May 5, 2019)

ka00 said:


> On a side note, has anyone else noticed that their tinnitus intensity or pitch can fluctuate when yawning or when chewing some hard piece of food?


I'm lucky that while I do have some tinnitus, it's pretty mild.
But I wanted to add that sometimes it seems the pitch of external sounds can be affected when I yawn.



NekujaK said:


> - Taking a nap! 9 times out of 10, when I wake up from a short nap, the ringing is super loud and intense. Fortunately, the increased intensity usually only lasts for about an hour. Interestingly, I don't experience this when waking up in the morning from "normal" sleep.


Yes I have noticed this one as well. Although like you I don't usually get it from "normal" sleep, if I switch off the alarm and sleep longer than normal, it can happen then.


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## fiestared (May 5, 2019)

Kony said:


> I've had tinnitus all my life so I'm used to it. In my case, it's a very high pitched sine wave.... It can be frustrating when trying to mix, or compose quiet cues (especially with woodwind upper ranges).
> 
> I'm just wondering if any of you also have tinnitus, and if you have any tips or advice for how you deal with it.


As must of us I've got a "tinnitus", (acouphenes in French)a small one, but a present one. I discovered that it's possible to deal with it : first, you must admit it, accept it, do not try to hide it. Later(some days), look for it if you don't hear it clearly or "enough", learn to "love" it. After some time you'll be kind of friend with it and it'll be possible to dim it slowly, imagine you have a fader in your head and you can change the intensity of the tinnitus with this fader, you'll discover you can mix it like any other sound source. In one word, break your patterns of reacting, try to change them... Sorry if it's not clear, English is not my language and it's obvious in this message


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## Mornats (May 5, 2019)

Curable or treatable? Wow, that's good to hear. Gonna book an appointment asap.

Some history on mine...

I've experienced temporary ringing in my ears after gigs so I started wearing earplugs. I bought a new set that were recommended and was wearing them at a gig where I was taking photos close to the stage (and the P.A.). I believe my earplugs were too large for my ears as I had trouble with them coming out. So as a result, I was pushing them in perhaps too much, mostly out of concern from my position close to the P.A. 

Afterwards I had a build-up of wax that caused my left to be completely blocked (almost zero sound getting in) and my right being partially blocked. After I'd had the wax removed I had an almost constant but low volume ringing in my ears.

Recently it's felt like my ears have started getting blocked a bit and the ringing is louder and constant. And as I said above, moving my jaw changes the pitch and intensity.

I'd read a lot about tinnitus being incurable and permanent so I've just been laying off loud noises. No music, no headphones, and avoiding loud places. Not much fun but the sensible thing to do.

By the way, if you ever get wax blocking your ears then a few drops of olive oil a couple of times a day for a week will break it down. The you can have them syringed if the wax hasn't fallen out naturally.


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## ManicMiner (May 5, 2019)

Ive had mine for two years now. I had excellent hearing up until then, like whatever the 20-20 vision equivalent of hearing is. Now very high pitched ring in both ears.
Trying stuff to get rid of it. A harpist friend of mine cured hers with various supplements including Zinc.

I am trying Sunlight therapy. Apparently when the sunlight hits your eyes it triggers a healing mechanism (+ vit D) and some people have said this helps with tinnitus.
I got myself a mosquito-net-tent thing so I can lay outdoors and not be bothered by critters.
Just started it, will let you know how I get on.
We spend most of our lives indoors behind computers not getting proper sun. I dont think it was meant to be that way.


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## mixtur (May 5, 2019)

StephenForsyth said:


> I'm always stunned by how loud live concerts are, I immensely dislike them honestly and usually avoid them for that reason. My sister got me some tickets for air at the opera house for a gift a few months back and within 15 seconds of the first song I could feel my ears _reacting_ to deal with the sound pressure so I was hunting around in my jacket for spare earplugs (motorcyclist) almost immediately.
> 
> They were -30dB foamies and it was still incredibly loud, I don't get the point.


Movie theaters too, what’s up with that?


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## mixtur (May 5, 2019)

I’ve had tinnitus for 20+ years but it goes up an down. Having a “white” period without headphones / loud sound helps get it back to “normal”. Stress, grinding teeth, tension etc makes it far worse, so being relaxed and in harmony is probably the best medicine. 

I sometimes get hyperacusis when it’s really bad. It basically makes you super sensitive to certain sounds, and for me certain frequencies clips/ distorts. https://www.webmd.com/brain/sound-sensitivity-hyperacusis#1

Taking a few days or a week off from loud audio usually makes it go away. I then wear earplugs all day (custom molded). My earplugs are my best friends and I wear them at bars, the cinema, loud gatherings, city walks etc. 

You can learn to live with it ultimately, and it’s not stopping me from making music, I just need to be more careful.


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## Bluemount Score (May 10, 2019)

My biggest respect to everybody affected by that, without being stopped to do their best to create great music, seriously!


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## bill5 (May 10, 2019)

ka00 said:


> As far as the ENTs have told me, there is no cure or treatment for tinnitus at present.


But that won't stop people from trying to tell you otherwise. (esp those that hope to make some money off of you....dude! Miracle cure! These herbs work! etc)

Factual information on this: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/tinnitus/symptoms-causes/syc-20350156

Have had for years, it comes and goes...or maybe it's me noticing it that comes and goes...but sometimes it seems louder than others. Annoying at times but not much more than that. I had an ear blockage which was the likely culprit; I don't listen to music loudly.


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## robgb (May 16, 2019)

I frankly don't notice it until someone brings the subject up.


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## bill5 (May 16, 2019)

ha - happens to me sometimes too


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## brek (May 16, 2019)

Meetyhtan said:


> My biggest respect to everybody affected by that, without being stopped to do their best to create great music, seriously!


 
Making music makes it go away! It's when the music stops it becomes an annoyance.


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## chrishurn (May 16, 2019)

ka00 said:


> Not to turn this into some webMD comments sections, but does anyone else have tinnitus + migraines + dizziness on-going for a few years? Did they figure out what you have? I've stumped so many professionals. One said BPPV and ruled out Menieres. One said TMJD. One said I clench my teeth, two said I don't and one ruled out apnea.



Yup. I have had dizziness (and some mild tinnitus) for about 4 years now on and off, we've ruled out almost everything, but all they can say is "probably" meniere's (maybe vestibular migraine), since you can't really officially be dianosed with that unless you have the full range of symptoms. My case may just be mild, or atypical, or...worse yet it may blow up later...either way I just have to wait and see. Unfortunately with this stuff it's really hard to diagnose and it's a bunch of trial and error. I spent a bunch of money trying to test for everything and have no answers, seems to be the case with many other people who don't fit the symptoms 100%.


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## Kony (May 16, 2019)

I may have mentioned this already but a homeopath once told me that my tinnitus was the result of an infection during infancy which hadn't fully left my system. This feels accurate in a way, since I sometimes get frequency fluctuations for no reason. After a brief period - sometimes minutes or seconds - the frequency will return to what it has always been.

Edit: I consulted with a homeopath about 30 years ago when I went through a phase of trying anything and everything to find a cure. I'm no fan of homeopathy in particular.


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## bill5 (May 16, 2019)

Kony said:


> I may have mentioned this already but a homeopath


You lost me at hello.

Homeopathy = flaming quackery.


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## Kony (May 16, 2019)

bill5 said:


> Homeopathy = flaming quackery


Agree with you 100% - I actually loathe homeopathy with a passion. But something makes sense, for me at least, about the diagnosis I had.


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## dflood (May 16, 2019)

Kony said:


> I may have mentioned this already but a homeopath once told me that my tinnitus was the result of an infection during infancy which hadn't fully left my system. This feels accurate in a way, since I sometimes get frequency fluctuations for no reason. After a brief period - sometimes minutes or seconds - the frequency will return to what it has always been.


Homeopathy is bogus. At least real medicine is honest enough to admit it doesn’t know the full cause or mechanisms of tinnitus. Any infection you may have suffered likely left your system long ago, the damage didn’t. Frequency fluctuations could be caused by something as simple as pressure changes in the inner ear. The ear is a very strange and temperamental sensor, and obviously prone to damage. Then there’s the brain. I’ve only recently started to appreciate the difference between hearing and listening and how you can learn to ignore tinnitus for the most part. Likewise, sound engineers and musicians with quite profound hearing loss can still function pretty well due to the amazing compensatory abilities of our brains.


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## Dirtgrain (Oct 17, 2021)

I find that my tinnitus gets worse when I'm dehydrated, for some reason.


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## lokotus (Oct 17, 2021)

don't rely on supplements (other than the important additional Vitamin D you cant get from food, only sun if you don't stay at home working). Instead try the real deal with juicing for additional help to improve vitamin deficiency. Its definitely much more work than taking pills, but worth it. Try this juice or any variation for it every morning instead of the "normal" breakfast. continue eating normal and healthy outside of this tradition.

here is a possible juice


I Have done this for years now and it is awesome... I do 6 bottles (1 liter ) in a row, put them with vacuum in the refrigerator at about 5 degrees celsius and have 1 bottle every morning instead of "normal" breakfast. No need for coffee any more. And I did the blood sugar test too, its very good if you don't put a lot of fruits (just half an apple for example) for example and lots of vegetables.

My tinnitus went away after two hearing losses and all frequencies came back. I started to do this juicing thing afterwards and luckily it didn't come back. I also try to reduce the loudness when mixing and try to reduce extreme stress. Hope it helps, Cheers, lokotus


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## FlyingAndi (Oct 17, 2021)

I have tinnitus on both ears (left is worse).
For some time I had the impression that it gets even worse if I drink alcohol. 
Then I read somewhere that chinin can make it worse. And then it dawned on me that if I drink alcohol, then most of the time it's either wine or gin tonic. So in this case it's not the alcohol but the tonic water which has an effect on my tinnitus.


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## Denix (Oct 17, 2021)

I work as a psychotherapist - patients suffering from tinnitus occur from time to time in our clinic. Our psychiatrist would give them ginkgo biloba... He believes in it, well that`s a start... 
As far as I know there is no real evidence for anything - supplements, drugs, hypnosis... There might be subgroups that could benefit... but no overall effect. 
BUT: Studies show that there is actually little correlation between the severity of the tinnitus and the suffering. So there is good hope, that you can learn to cope with it.

I know, that is not solving the Mixing-Problems...

I have tinnitus on one ear and I don`t realize it until I think or read about it (...so thanks for bringing this thread back up).


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## dzilizzi (Oct 17, 2021)

I have earwax build up that definitely makes it worse. Right now, it is barely there because I recently used some ear drops that help remove wax. But also thinking about it does make it worse. Just typing this, it went from unnoticeable to annoying. I think my brain normally tunes it out.


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## Kony (Oct 17, 2021)

Sometimes it's hard to know if a spike in the tinnitus volume is caused by something - eg food or drink, stress etc - or whether one of those things is a cause and the rest are correlations. Mine becomes noticeable when I'm having a morning coffee but that might be just me relaxing and noticing it circumstantially. I think stress is one of those chicken/egg things - tinnitus can cause considerable stress, even without realising it. Ever noticed how people will get annoyed when there's a perpetual strange sound in their environment? 

Have tried various supplements over the years, including those mentioned, but my tinnitus is still the same.


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## Denix (Oct 18, 2021)

Kony said:


> Sometimes it's hard to know if a spike in the tinnitus volume is caused by something - eg food or drink, stress etc - or whether one of those things is a cause and the rest are correlations. Mine becomes noticeable when I'm having a morning coffee but that might be just me relaxing and noticing it circumstantially. I think stress is one of those chicken/egg things - tinnitus can cause considerable stress, even without realising it. Ever noticed how people will get annoyed when there's a perpetual strange sound in their environment?
> 
> Have tried various supplements over the years, including those mentioned, but my tinnitus is still the same.



From the studies mentioned above and my experience, it`s about stress and attention.
Maybe your coffee activates your autonomous nervous system in a way that your attention is on the tinnitus. Others might say that the caffeine influences the blood flow. 
Stress and tinnitus is definitely a vicious circle. 

What helped me tremendously was accepting it. The first physician told me that I should have come earlier, because now he can`t help me - now it is chronic! I thought I screwed up and started different treatments of my own - Relaxation Techniques, White Noise, zinc... nothing helped, it got worse. I was so focussed on it. After a while I thought - Well, if you don´t leave, then I have to make the best out of it, focus on what is really important for me and don`t concentrate on anything associated with it. As if it was chronic pain. Whenever the sound is back, I think: There you are. Didn`t miss you. Hear you next time.


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## Kony (Oct 18, 2021)

Denix said:


> From the studies mentioned above and my experience, it`s about stress and attention.
> Maybe your coffee activates your autonomous nervous system in a way that your attention is on the tinnitus. Others might say that the caffeine influences the blood flow.
> Stress and tinnitus is definitely a vicious circle.
> 
> What helped me tremendously was accepting it. The first physician told me that I should have come earlier, because now he can`t help me - now it is chronic! I thought I screwed up and started different treatments of my own - Relaxation Techniques, White Noise, zinc... nothing helped, it got worse. I was so focussed on it. After a while I thought - Well, if you don´t leave, then I have to make the best out of it, focus on what is really important for me and don`t concentrate on anything associated with it. As if it was chronic pain. Whenever the sound is back, I think: There you are. Didn`t miss you. Hear you next time.


Agreed. I've had mine since childhood so I rarely notice it - except when mixing.


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## NekujaK (Oct 18, 2021)

Based on my own experience (tinnitus in one ear since 2003), the possible triggers are more complex than just stress. Although, I don't doubt that stress is a significant contributor.

My tinnitus is constant, but varies in volume from easy-to-ignore background noise all the way up to a loud high-pitched roar. Fortunately, the latter only occurs periodically, and often from predictable triggers - namely exposing my ears to constant sound for a prolonged period of time. But sometimes the loud episodes occur for seemingly no specific reason.

I used to think it was a stress-related phenomenon until I started to notice a strange correlation between my tinnitus and napping, of all things. Nearly every time I take a short nap (1 hour or less), when I wake up, my ear is ringing at full volume. This even occurs if I happen to doze off for just a few minutes on the couch while watching a movie. Oddly enough, when I sleep for longer periods, the loud ringing isn't triggered.

Anyway, tinnitus seems to be a multi-faceted phenomenon that involves both hearing damage and altered neural responses in the brain. Everyone seems to have their own unique symptoms and experiences with it, which I suppose, is why there's a lot of conjecture but very few definitive answers.


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## Denix (Oct 18, 2021)

NekujaK said:


> Based on my own experience (tinnitus in one ear since 2003), the possible triggers are more complex than just stress. Although, I don't doubt that stress is a significant contributor.
> 
> My tinnitus is constant, but varies in volume from easy-to-ignore background noise all the way up to a loud high-pitched roar. Fortunately, the latter only occurs periodically, and often from predictable triggers - namely exposing my ears to constant sound for a prolonged period of time. But sometimes the loud episodes occur for seemingly no specific reason.
> 
> ...




I totally agree, we know too little and we should differentiate more... there are no definitive anwers and no easy way out. Strangely enough: Napping affects the cortisol secretion. 

My favorite quote is from Pugh: "If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn’t."


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## NekujaK (Oct 19, 2021)

I recently stumbled onto this video about mixing with damaged hearing - it's not specifically about tinnitus, but there are some interesting points. But be aware, this guy repeats himself A LOT, and there's a pretty long advertising pitch near the beginning. But if you get to the meat of the video and perhaps increase the playback speed, there's some stuff of interest here...


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## Jackdnp121 (Oct 19, 2021)

I have been diagnosed with inner ears disease ( meniere’s disese ) which somehow make me feeling dizzy 24 hrs for the last 15 years ( I got used to it ) … and one of the ‘smaller‘ symptom is occasion tinnitus … so what I’m trying to say is , if in any doubt … go to ENT …

cheers

all the best


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## José Herring (Oct 20, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I have earwax build up that definitely makes it worse. Right now, it is barely there because I recently used some ear drops that help remove wax. But also thinking about it does make it worse. Just typing this, it went from unnoticeable to annoying. I think my brain normally tunes it out.


What do you use? I have the same problem and I'm tired of going to the doctors office.

On the original subject. I've had it for 30 years now. It is definitely ear damage and occurs around 11khz and I have a sharp decline starting around there and heading up to about 13khz and then it returns to normal. It's annoying but doesn't drive me crazy yet. Mostly I don't notice it until some frequency approaches that area then suddenly disappears on one side.


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## OHjorth (Oct 20, 2021)

I've had tinnitus for 25years on both ears after a relative hired a band with a very eager drummer for her 40th birthday. He made love to those crash cymbals thoroughly for at least 4 hours.
It was pretty tough for about five years but after the fear that it would get even worse had disappeared, that acctually attenuated my whole experience of it and I stopped thinking about it. Now I can move in and out of listening to it almost by my own will. I hear it more loudly if I am stressed out or don't get enough sleep, but it doesn't add to the stress anymore.
Both on a personal level and professional (psychologist), and as others have mentioned earlier in the thread, I would say that giving up on making it go away is the way to go (after a thorough initial medical investigation of course). Balance other stuff in your life instead. Exercise, keep stress levels on a managable level.


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## TomislavEP (Oct 20, 2021)

I've been suffering from tinnitus for abt. 16 years now. I have had a mild hearing loss since my teenage years and am also very prone to earwax and blocked tubes (probably some allergy in the background as well). 

I deeply sympathize with everyone who has this problem; it is really difficult to cope with, especially for us for whom music and sounds are the centers of our lives. From my own experience, the best cure there is to learn to live with it and learn to ignore it. Distraction is the key. The moments of absolute silence are the worst ones, though...


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## dzilizzi (Oct 20, 2021)

José Herring said:


> What do you use? I have the same problem and I'm tired of going to the doctors office.
> 
> On the original subject. I've had it for 30 years now. It is definitely ear damage and occurs around 11khz and I have a sharp decline starting around there and heading up to about 13khz and then it returns to normal. It's annoying but doesn't drive me crazy yet. Mostly I don't notice it until some frequency approaches that area then suddenly disappears on one side.


Nothing fancy but seems to work


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## RobbertZH (Oct 20, 2021)

I have tinnitus after having my ears cleared for ear-wax by a doctor. The tinnitus then started with a low rumble in my left ear and after a few weeks it changed to a really high pitch. The intensity of the sound varies, but the high pitch is always present.

I do not expect that it will be solved anytime soon as this condition is already known since ancient times.

This webpage describes what people in ancient times thought what the source of the condition was and what the recommended remedy is:



https://www.sound-bounce.com/news/2018/05/09/tinnitus-throughout-the-years-tzgtm



So you can try (among others):
* chants dedicated to the god of water asking him for relief from the noises in the ear
* placing radish, cucumber juice, honey and vinegar in the ear
* boiling earthworms in goose grease and putting them in the ear to solve all kinds of ear issues
* Renaissance doctors believed tinnitus was caused by the wind that got trapped in the ear and swirled around endlessly. So in order to liberate the wind, they would drill a hole into the bones around the ear using a silver tube which would suck the air out of the ear canal

If you want to try out even more, the article has more remedies.


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## Dirtgrain (Oct 20, 2021)

What a coincidence: my music tends to suck the air out of the ear canal--I always thought in a bad way, but now, maybe good.


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## Wedge (Oct 20, 2021)

I noticed my ears rang when I was a kid. In my late twenties I took a long break from music and a few years later I noticed it was gone. Unfortunately, I was in an accident a couple years ago and went deaf in my left in above about 2300 and got the ringing back in both. I got put on a high dose of steroids, the side effects kicked my ass but most of my hearing came back. Now the ringing is at different pitches in each ear which can be annoying. And if I wear headphones, more than fifteen minutes my left ear feels like I have cotton in it. Be careful out there, it's really frustrating at times.


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## stixman (Oct 20, 2021)

Occupational hazard…loud gigs and playing electronic kits for hours over twenty years with headphones…I first noticed it when I first tried floatation tanks or also known as self deprivation tanks a few decades ago…salt water heated to body temperature pitch black and ear plugs and no physical contact as your floating …the aim I think was to mimic being in the mothers womb….first time I was disappointed as when I seemed to get to quiet the hour time was up…my head head was like a cacophony ….I did continue with more (most probably because I didn’t have to pay owner is a fan of the group I play with) with better results and it did have lots of benefits ie very calming…anyway fyi putting yourself in extremely quiet environments will expose tinnitus and may help identify …I sleep with sounds timed to go off after an hour or so otherwise I struggle without sounds.


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## AlexRuger (Oct 20, 2021)

Wedge said:


> I noticed my ears rang when I was a kid. In my late twenties I took a long break from music and a few years later I noticed it was gone. Unfortunately, I was in an accident a couple years ago and went deaf in my left in above about 2300 and got the ringing back in both. I got put on a high dose of steroids, the side effects kicked my ass but most of my hearing came back. Now the ringing is at different pitches in each ear which can be annoying. And if I wear headphones, more than fifteen minutes my left ear feels like I have cotton in it. Be careful out there, it's really frustrating at times.


Yup, this has happened to me multiple times. Last time after I got off the steroids, I had suddenly developed about 30 food allergies -- I have so many I literally can't eat out at restaurants anymore. It fucking sucks. No idea if there's causation with the steroids but it's worth thinking about. Recently had yet another bout of sudden hearing loss (this time in my right ear; traditionally it's been in my left) and I actually decided to forego the steroids out of fear that it would cause even more food allergies (at which point I'd probably literally starve). So now my right ear has that "cotton" feel 100% of the time. I haven't gotten a test yet but if I had to guess I think I have about 40dB loss at around 2khz.

I have so, so, so many different tinnitus pitches now. It's always gotten 100x worse after each case of hearing loss. Some of them come and go, some of them are static pitches, some of them are like little arpeggiators playing random melodies, some are insanely high to the point that I can't even pinpoint the pitch, some are crazy low...

A cure for this stuff can't come fast enough. It's absolutely ridiculous how bad it can get.


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## stixman (Oct 20, 2021)

The worst type I’ve had was like having a lorry idling in my head…a low frequency really frustrating but I haven’t had that since I use much more lower volume in my headphones since then.


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## Wedge (Oct 20, 2021)

AlexRuger said:


> Yup, this has happened to me multiple times. Last time after I got off the steroids, I had suddenly developed about 30 food allergies -- I have so many I literally can't eat out at restaurants anymore. It fucking sucks. No idea if there's causation with the steroids but it's worth thinking about. Recently had yet another bout of sudden hearing loss (this time in my right ear; traditionally it's been in my left) and I actually decided to forego the steroids out of fear that it would cause even more food allergies (at which point I'd probably literally starve). So now my right ear has that "cotton" feel 100% of the time. I haven't gotten a test yet but if I had to guess I think I have about 40dB loss at around 2khz.
> 
> I have so, so, so many different tinnitus pitches now. It's always gotten 100x worse after each case of hearing loss. Some of them come and go, some of them are static pitches, some of them are like little arpeggiators playing random melodies, some are insanely high to the point that I can't even pinpoint the pitch, some are crazy low...
> 
> A cure for this stuff can't come fast enough. It's absolutely ridiculous how bad it can get.


I was in hell on the steroids, on top of everything else they interacted with my antiseizure meds. But ultimately it was worth it. I guess I got lucky since I didn't suffer any long term effects like you did. I'm sorry dude.


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## WindcryMusic (Oct 21, 2021)

AlexRuger said:


> Yup, this has happened to me multiple times. Last time after I got off the steroids, I had suddenly developed about 30 food allergies -- I have so many I literally can't eat out at restaurants anymore. It fucking sucks. No idea if there's causation with the steroids but it's worth thinking about. Recently had yet another bout of sudden hearing loss (this time in my right ear; traditionally it's been in my left) and I actually decided to forego the steroids out of fear that it would cause even more food allergies (at which point I'd probably literally starve). So now my right ear has that "cotton" feel 100% of the time. I haven't gotten a test yet but if I had to guess I think I have about 40dB loss at around 2khz.
> 
> I have so, so, so many different tinnitus pitches now. It's always gotten 100x worse after each case of hearing loss. Some of them come and go, some of them are static pitches, some of them are like little arpeggiators playing random melodies, some are insanely high to the point that I can't even pinpoint the pitch, some are crazy low...
> 
> A cure for this stuff can't come fast enough. It's absolutely ridiculous how bad it can get.



You’re not alone, even though there are as many variations on this story as there are patients. For me, it was intially a bad influenza that triggered my first food allergy, and then when I got a flu vaccine the next year (in the hopes of avoiding a repeat), my immune system overreacted and I developed my second food allergy which manifested as Meniere’s (or more precisely, AIED). Since then I’ve had several more immune system overreactions resulting in additional food allergies, and at this point I don’t even have a full tally of the number of my allergies anymore, except that Mayo was able to do prick testing on me of 46 common allergens (foods and otherwise) and I reacted to 43 of them.

Like you, I haven’t been able to eat in any restaurant for close to 20 years now, and after my latest round of new food allergies I lost over 40 pounds before I could identify enough “safe” foods (through introducing them one at a time) to begin to maintain my weight again. Today I can walk through entire aisles of a supermarket and be unable to find a single item in the aisle that is safe for me to eat.

The fluctuating tinnitus is bad enough at times almost every day (especially in the morning), but when I really have an attack now, in addition to the continuous dizziness, one of my ears will often start to hear all pitches shifted by as much as three semitones. That is especially rough for a musician … I simply cannot bear to hear music at all when I’m in that state, which is why I try very hard not to stimulate those allergies and trigger such attacks.

There are a few positive aspects, though: for example, I probably eat much healthier now than I did before. Prior to the food allergies I practically lived on fast food, whereas now I’ve had to learn how to actually cook, because I have to make virtually everything at home from scratch ingredients.

Keep battling and hoping, that’s my only advice.


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## tmhuud (Oct 21, 2021)

Be VERY careful kids what you put into your ears. Not talking just swabs, etc. 

I was misdiagnosed with a certain ear infection. Cedars prescribed the wrong drops and it made it worse. Then I made it worse by following online tips and diluting hydrogen peroxide with water and THAT created a slight rupture. Over the counter liquids/drops can do the same thing. 

My ENT finally got to the bottom of the infections. (Closed ear head phones and bacteria). Fortunately the perforated drum healed on its own but if it gets bad enough they have to do surgery. 

He goes in as usual maintenance and vacuums all the crap and wax out my ears every 6 months. 

I’ve been thru the ringer (no pun intended) with my ears. I had a chiropractor once who said he just bought this really cool microscope that can check ears (I guess I had complained about my tinnitus to him) so he looks in there and literally says, “dude get checked now! I think I see a tumor or some sort of mass in there!” 

Of course I’m panicked. I go to my GP first and he says “your ears are both fine!”

I figure better see my ENT next. He looks. “Man, you’ve got spores in there and like other stuff “(tiny pieces of cotton).

So he blows anti-bacterial powder into the ear after he sucks out what he can. I got watch it on video. Good times.


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## AlexRuger (Oct 22, 2021)

WindcryMusic said:


> You’re not alone, even though there are as many variations on this story as there are patients. For me, it was initially a bad influenza that triggered my first food allergy, and then when I got a flu vaccine the next year (in the hopes of avoiding a repeat), my immune system overreacted and I developed my second food allergy which manifested as Meniere’s (or more precisely, AIED). Since then I’ve had several more immune system overreactions resulting in additional food allergies, and at this point I don’t even have a full tally of the number of my allergies anymore, except that Mayo was able to do prick testing on me of 46 common allergens (foods and otherwise) and I reacted to 43 of them.
> 
> Like you, I haven’t been able to eat in any restaurant for close to 20 years now, and after my latest round of new food allergies I lost over 40 pounds before I could identify enough “safe” foods (through introducing them one at a time) to begin to maintain my weight again. Today I can walk through entire aisles of a supermarket and be unable to find a single item in the aisle that is safe for me to eat.
> 
> ...


Hol-lee SHIT you are the first person, like...ever...that I've come across with a story similar to mine. My jaw is on the floor over here. Thankfully I don't have any balance issues or anything else that would indicate Meniere's, though (yet -- knock on wood). I've had the "re-tuning" though, and yeah, it's absolute murder. For a while my left _perfectly _tuned up everything exactly one half step, _and _added a perfect 5th on top. I thought I was going crazy. It was most obvious when, like, my microwave would beep. It's a clear beep tuned to a C, and in my right ear it was Db with an Ab on top. Scared the hell out of me but thankfully it stopped after 2 weeks. I have no idea what was going on there.

I feel you on the eating healthier. It _is _kind of nice to literally only be able to eat like someone who's training to be in a Marvel movie. My diet is literally only the following: all meats (except fish), all dairy, egg whites (but not egg yolks), rice, potatoes, peanuts/cashews/coconuts, beans, blueberries/strawberries/raspberries, kale/zuchini/squash/carrots/onions/mushrooms. If it weren't for my fucking tomato, citrus (meaning orange, lemon, lime, grapefruit), and bell pepper (and related -- paprika, cayenne, etc) allergies, it wouldn't be that bad. The only ones I'd really notice would be almond and fish (both of which are anaphylactic). I could live with the other 20 or so -- mustard, watermelon, etc. But try finding _literally _a single dish at a restaurant that doesn't contain nightshades or citrus. Once you look for it, you realize that basically everything contains lemon, lime, or some form of pepper in _some _way. And more often than not, restaurant owners don't even know if their food contains it. They're super uncommon allergies so they don't even think about it, end up telling me that their food is safe, and then it's not. So I have to just not trust, and not eat out.

Obviously I'm preaching to the choir here -- you get it.

I was always a relatively healthy eater, but I cheated a lot. But then again, the cheating was fun. I miss having a beer or saying "fuck it" and grabbing a burger instead of cooking. I miss Thai and Mexican food so much. And I definitely miss literally being able to eat at all without necessarily planning it, especially while hanging with friends. It's such a hassle and it never gets easier. I'm actually starting to considering hiring a cook, as bourgeois as that is, because I feel like all I _do_ is cook. Even meal-prepping days at a time just doesn't feel like it covers it, because I still usually need access to at least a microwave.

Given the choice, I'd pick the ear issues over the food allergies any day. Tinnitus sucks and hyperacusis has stolen my career from me, but food allergies steal one's _life. _It is absolutely astonishing to me how little the medical community knows about either condition, though. It's like getting a bacterial infection in the 1600s -- sorry 'bout ya, you were just born too early. Maybe in 2300 they'll have figured it out, but as of now they don't even know _why _these things happen (especially adult food allergies, and _especially _to the extent of you and I), let alone a way to treat it. It's so fucking depressing.


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## WindcryMusic (Oct 22, 2021)

AlexRuger said:


> Hol-lee SHIT you are the first person, like...ever...that I've come across with a story similar to mind. My jaw is on the floor over here. Thankfully I don't have any balance issues or anything else that would indicate Meniere's, though (yet -- knock on wood). I've had the "re-tuning" though, and yeah, it's absolute murder. For a while my left _perfectly _tuned up everything exactly one half step, _and _added a perfect 5th on top. I thought I was going crazy. It was most obvious when, like, my microwave would beep. It's a clear beep tuned to a C, and in my right ear it was Db with an Ab on top. Scared the hell out of me but thankfully it stopped after 2 weeks. I have no idea what was going on there.
> 
> I feel you on the eating healthier. It _is _kind of nice to literally only be able to eat like someone who's training to be in a Marvel movie. My diet is literally only the following: all meats (except fish), all dairy, egg whites (but not egg yolks), rice, potatoes, peanuts/cashews/coconuts, beans, blueberries/strawberries/raspberries, kale/zuchini/squash/carrots/onions/mushrooms. If it weren't for my fucking tomato, citrus (meaning orange, lemon, lime, grapefruit), and bell pepper (and related -- paprika, cayenne, etc) allergies, it wouldn't be that bad. The only ones I'd really notice would be almond and fish (both of which are anaphylactic). I could live with the other 20 or so -- mustard, watermelon, etc. But try finding _literally _a single dish at a restaurant that doesn't contain nightshades or citrus. Once you look for it, you realize that basically everything contains lemon, lime, or some form of pepper in _some _way. And more often than not, restaurant owners don't even know if their food contains it. They're super uncommon allergies so they don't even think about it, end up telling me that their food is safe, and then it's not. So I have to just not trust, and not eat out.
> 
> ...


Wow, it is *amazing* that you had the pitch-in-one-ear problem too, and especially that you too noticed it most with the microwave beep. That’s exactly the same sound that first tipped me off as to what was happening. I’ve had a couple of rounds of that issue, but each time it subsided within a week or so, thank goodness.

Another amazing thing is how wildly allergies can differ. I’m not allergic to some of the things that you are, but I *am* allergic to more than half of the things you listed as being the core of your diet now. Milk, eggs, wheat, soybeans, peanuts, apples, strawberries, oranges, coconuts, carrots … all are in my allergen list, along with things like corn, which is another of those ingredients that seems to show up in everything, even things like toothpaste. Dealing with my corn allergy has been my single biggest hurdle.

Maybe it is different for people on the west coast, but here in the Midwest restaurants really have no interest in catering to even the most basic of food allergies. I’ll spare you my specific horror stories, but the upshot is most restaurants hereabouts would make it as clear as they could that they didn’t want my business because of my allergy issues. My last experiences with at least trying to go to restaurants with friends twenty years ago, at a time when I only had a few of the food allergies that I now have, leave me almost glad that I can’t visit them at all anymore.

You’re absolutely right about the general lack of knowledge about food allergies in the medical field, too. I’ve had to educate most of my doctors at length about what I have to deal with. The better doctors have accepted that it is something real but not yet well understood, especially after seeing my symptoms and the results of my tests … e.g. the low-level antibody reaction continuously occurring in my bloodstream … and not having any way to account for them. Unfortunately there’s little they’ve been able to do for me except to say “you should keep doing what you’re doing, since you’ve found ways to deal with it”. Now, the more close-minded doctors have just dismissed it outright since my specific condition doesn’t appear in any of their journals; those doctors don’t last long with me.

Actually I’d rather keep my food allergies and get rid of the hearing and dizziness issues, if only I could. I know very well what you mean about the amount of cooking time per day that it takes to cope with allergies, but now that I’m semi-retired (the “semi” portion being me trying to get back to making more music) I can afford to allocate that time, and am becoming a little better of a cook with each passing year, I think. Example: I’ve missed Mexican food too, but this year I’d been working toward making from scratch all of the ingredients for something like a soft-shell taco (including tortillas made primarily from brown rice flour, homemade habanero hot sauce, etc), and finally made such a meal for myself just a couple of weeks ago, and after a couple of decades of not having any such meals, it was like going to heaven (even though any person who can eat the real thing would undoubtedly disagree). The biggest problem I have with my food allergies lately is that some of the speciality food items I require are becoming very difficult to find these days because of the pandemic.


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## nuyo (Oct 25, 2021)

I "think" I have one. It's like a white noise that is not really there. It drives me crazy when I'm depressed. So it's not what people expect when they think about Tinnitus. And I do have these 5 second tinnitus from time to time. It is definitly a different sound. My ears also start feeling weird when I listend to loud sounds.


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## ScoringFilm (Oct 25, 2021)

I have low hum in my left ear only; around E2 in pitch. I think this was caused by having a drummer on my left in a rock band and very loud trumpets on the left in a wind/brass band. I wore ear plugs but the damage was still caused.


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## MartinH. (Jan 5, 2022)

I randomly stumbled over a video that is supposed to help with tinnitus, however I have to say it's some of the most unpleasant sounds I have ever heard. I'd rather listen to Vomir (harsh noise wall)... 
However the comments under the video are sounding surprisingly positive, so I thought I'd share it here and let you all decide on your own if you want to risk giving this a try. I don't think my tinnitus is bad enough yet to put myself through this, but yours may be different:


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## dzilizzi (Jan 5, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I randomly stumbled over a video that is supposed to help with tinnitus, however I have to say it's some of the most unpleasant sounds I have ever heard. I'd rather listen to Vomir (harsh noise wall)...
> However the comments under the video are sounding surprisingly positive, so I thought I'd share it here and let you all decide on your own if you want to risk giving this a try. I don't think my tinnitus is bad enough yet to put myself through this, but yours may be different:



Hmm, sounds that cause my tinnitus. How does that work? I lasted a minute before my ears started hurting.


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## SergeD (Jan 5, 2022)

I heard that a total immersion into water for 10 minutes definitively stops tinnitus, but I'm scared to try a so radical treatment.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 5, 2022)

SergeD said:


> I heard that a total immersion into water for 10 minutes definitively stops tinnitus, but I'm scared to try a so radical treatment.


with or without a breathing apparatus?


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## Tralen (Jan 5, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> with or without a breathing apparatus?


10 minutes under water without breathing apparatus should certainly stop tinnitus!


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## dzilizzi (Jan 5, 2022)

Tralen said:


> 10 minutes under water without breathing apparatus should certainly stop tinnitus!


That's kind of what I was thinking! 👻 👼


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## CSS_SCC (Jan 5, 2022)

More than 20 years ago I have found out by accident that I had quite a pronounced difference in hearing acuity between my left ear and right ear: I was working for a TV station and there was another person (sound engineer) with the same name, year and month of birth as me and they were periodically tested by an audiologist. HR messed up and sent my details to the clinic for booking so I got tested. It’s got more pronounced over the years and it’s about 15 years now that I've also got intermittent tinnitus. Different frequencies, different styles, different periods of time and obviously different for each ear. Because why not!
My two solutions – weird as it might seem – two albums: Kitaro – Oasis and Klaus Schulze – X. If you ever hear me listening to them on a loop, now you know the cause.


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## dflood (Jan 5, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I randomly stumbled over a video that is supposed to help with tinnitus, however I have to say it's some of the most unpleasant sounds I have ever heard. I'd rather listen to Vomir (harsh noise wall)...
> However the comments under the video are sounding surprisingly positive, so I thought I'd share it here and let you all decide on your own if you want to risk giving this a try. I don't think my tinnitus is bad enough yet to put myself through this, but yours may be different:



Well, while I’m listening to all that ringing I can’t actually hear the ringing in my own ears. Not sure how that helps much. Having suffered with tinnitus for almost 60 years (got it from measles complications), the only thing that really works for me is not thinking about it. Sometimes that is very hard to do, particularly when trying to create and mix music.


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## CSS_SCC (Jan 5, 2022)

As was previously mentioned, at least in my case, it's clearly a mixture of triggers: the car driving down the street with the music booming, too much silence (especially annoying as I don't like listening to music while sleeping), a kid or a bird shrieking, a couple arguing loudly or, simply, general stress and fatigue. And this is just the short list.

The problem is that I haven't yet identified a pattern and that once I become aware (again) of it, it might last anywhere from a few minutes to a few weeks. The two above albums serve two purposes: enough variety and familiarity and a good mixture of high frequencies that are overlapping the sound in my head so it just becomes a part of the mix; plus it makes me stop, relax, concentrate on the music and move my attention away from any issues that are pressing in the moment if it was triggered by stress/fatigue.

To understand how much I don't like silence because it triggers my tinnitus, while I was subscribed to Spotify, I received the total hours of listening per year to the service and it was the equivalent of 65.5 days of continuos listening just on Spotify.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 5, 2022)

SergeD said:


> I heard that a total immersion into water for 10 minutes definitively stops tinnitus, but I'm scared to try a so radical treatment.


Tinnitus can be caused by several things. It might or might not work for you.

Now, if you don't use a snorkel then it definitely will, except that being dead is a definite disadvantage.

***

What I want to know is whether the general population is as plagued by it as musicians are (as we see from this thread). My hunch is that it's not just us.


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## mallux (Jan 5, 2022)

The cynic in me says that this is a good way to get 400k long views on YouTube, but it's not unpleasant to my ears so maybe I'll give it a few goes. After 20 mins it doesn't seem to have done much, but not expecting any miracle cures after 40-odd years.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 5, 2022)

CSS_SCC said:


> at least in my case, it's clearly a mixture of triggers



No question. Mine is triggered by broadband noise, such as being in a crowded restaurant with hard surfaces.

As I probably posted before, I'm extremely lucky that mine is very mild, not there most of the time, and I never even notice it when it is.


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## AlexRuger (Jan 5, 2022)

I'm jealous of all you using the word "trigger," implying that it's not constant.

I have roughly a dozen tinnitus tones and they're always, always there. Sometimes worse, sometimes better, but present 100% of the time.


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## MartinH. (Jan 6, 2022)

AlexRuger said:


> I'm jealous of all you using the word "trigger," implying that it's not constant.
> 
> I have roughly a dozen tinnitus tones and they're always, always there. Sometimes worse, sometimes better, but present 100% of the time.



Mine is there all the time too, but I only notice it when it's quiet or when I think about it for some reason (like seeing this thread). So I can count myself lucky compared to you and many others here.




dzilizzi said:


> Hmm, sounds that cause my tinnitus. How does that work? I lasted a minute before my ears started hurting.


Sorry to hear that (no pun intended). :-/


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## Saxer (Jan 6, 2022)

I have this pitch shifter up a semitone in one ear from time to time too. It started when I was around 40 (I'm 60 now) about a year after my sudden hearing loss with Tinnitus. The first Borg event (every voice sounds like: "Resistance is futile") lasted about a day. Meanwhile it's gone after two hours and it happens rarely. Over the years also the Tinnitus became better. Actually my Tinnitus event stopped me from living an unhealthy life. From there I decided not to connect my self-esteem either to my efficiency and output nor my income. I started to select my jobs instead of doing everything and it really helps. It took a decade but my Tinnitus is down to a level where I can really enjoy silence again.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 6, 2022)

AlexRuger said:


> I'm jealous of all you using the word "trigger," implying that it's not constant.
> 
> I have roughly a dozen tinnitus tones and they're always, always there. Sometimes worse, sometimes better, but present 100% of the time.


For me it's always there, but usually at a low enough level I can ignore it unless something sets it off. Or as @MartinH. says, something like this post makes me think about it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 6, 2022)

AlexRuger said:


> I'm jealous of all you using the word "trigger," implying that it's not constant.
> 
> I have roughly a dozen tinnitus tones and they're always, always there. Sometimes worse, sometimes better, but present 100% of the time.


:(


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## ka00 (Jan 6, 2022)

For anyone that has tinnitus that gets louder based on neck position, chewing, yawning, swallowing, pressing against your head in specific directions... then you might have something called cervicogenic somatic tinnitus.

Have a look at this video for some information on possible therapies to look into (massage therapy, physiotherapy, posture exercises, trigger point acupuncture, etc.)

And then if you do one of these therapies and it works for you, please let us know:



Edit: That channel in general has a bunch of useful videos.


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## Pier (Jan 6, 2022)

I started developing a mild very high pitched tinnitus about 3 months ago. I don't hear it most of the time, and it doesn't really prevent me from working with sound, or listening to music in my day to day. For some reason it's much more obvious at night when I lay in bed.

I have no idea what might have caused it. I take care of my ears and always listen at low or moderate volumes. The only loud thing I've experience in years was watching Dune at the theater which was pretty loud. Some people say it can be caused by the COVID vaccines although there's no serious data on that. Tinnitus can also be caused by COVID and I've started to think I might have caught it without knowing it.

I've tried a couple of things (Vitamin D, B, Gingko biloba, drinking more water, blowing exercises) but nothing seems to make a difference.



MartinH. said:


> I randomly stumbled over a video that is supposed to help with tinnitus, however I have to say it's some of the most unpleasant sounds I have ever heard. I'd rather listen to Vomir (harsh noise wall)...
> However the comments under the video are sounding surprisingly positive, so I thought I'd share it here and let you all decide on your own if you want to risk giving this a try. I don't think my tinnitus is bad enough yet to put myself through this, but yours may be different:



Holy shit, this worked! I listened to it for 5 mins and it reduced it considerably.

I will keep listening to this for a couple of days and see what happens.

Thanks for sharing!


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## davidanthony (Jan 6, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> What I want to know is whether the general population is as plagued by it as musicians are (as we see from this thread). My hunch is that it's not just us.


Definitely not! There are online forums for tinnitus sufferers out there and people come from all walks of life.

I suffered from tinnitus for about 5 months in 2015 -- started during a very difficult and stressful period of my life as a high pitched booooooop in my left ear. I also heard explosive "crackling" noises in response to certain loud stimuli (knife on a cutting board was a big trigger). The issues are completely gone now, save for a few random moments every couple months where I'll feel the ear get a little funny (full?) and then hear ~10 seconds of booooop before it fades out and my normal hearing returns.

When it started I read all the medical journal articles I could find and eventually succumbed to trying every "cure" (garlic olive oil drops was probably my low point), masking device, trick, meditation, etc. that I could find on the internet (that's how I know about the forums I mentioned above) with zero success. 

What finally worked for me was acupuncture. It took several sessions over multiple weeks, and the improvement was not linear. In fact I remember being very angry after the first session because I felt that my tinnitus got louder, but I saw improvement in a separate, un-related (or so I thought) issue I was having with digestion, so I decided to keep going to "fix" that. 

Through my acupuncturist's gentle prodding I began to understand the way Chinese medicine conceives of the whole body as a system instead of focusing on specific regions, to the point where I've come to the personal belief that TCM/acupuncture is a _far_ superior method for treating non-threating injuries/conditions/pains that don't show up in an image or DNA sequence (western medicine is much faster and much more reliable for those kinds of easily diagnosable things, so I'm not advocating for giving up on traditional doctors entirely!) 

According to traditional chinese medicine, there can be several root causes for tinnitus (this is why some "cures" work for some and not others, they address different underlying causes): 



https://www.nccaom.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf/Acupuncture%20and%20Herbs%20Quiet%20Tinnitus.pdf



In my case a big contributing factor was stress, so my internal begging/pleading with my body for symptoms to go away actually made things worse as I was putting my nervous system into a panicked feedback loop. I fully understand the desperation many feel (I was certainly there), but learning how to relax and _accept_ the infernal ringing instead of fighting and trying to block it out was a big part of letting it go. Now when it comes "back" I like to think it's just my body reminding me to chill out, and it's gone in seconds.

One drawback to acupuncture vs. western medicine is it is slower and way more practitioner dependent (the acupuncturist has to correctly diagnose and choose which needles and herbs to give you and that's not as easy as doing a blood draw and prescribing a prescription drug), but most of the ones working in major cities are probably competent because it's hard to keep a practice going without it.

Would highly recommend to anyone suffering with this to investigate, and give it a couple sessions before you give up on it. 



AlexRuger said:


> A cure for this stuff can't come fast enough. It's absolutely ridiculous how bad it can get.


Have you looked into eastern / traditional chinese medicine? Can be very effective at treating these seemingly undiagnosable "I was totally fine and now I'm not at all and I feel like it's just getting worse" syndromes -- the underlying framework allows for an understanding of causation and treatment that western medicine just can't do because it's too reliant on empirical data (which you'll basically never get for something like this, hence the lack of cure.)


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## Mornats (Jan 7, 2022)

ka00 said:


> For anyone that has tinnitus that gets louder based on neck position, chewing, yawning, swallowing, pressing against your head in specific directions... then you might have something called cervicogenic somatic tinnitus.
> 
> Have a look at this video for some information on possible therapies to look into (massage therapy, physiotherapy, posture exercises, trigger point acupuncture, etc.)
> 
> ...



I fall into this category so I'll take a look and will let you know if it works for me. Thanks for sharing it!


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## MartinH. (Jan 7, 2022)

Pier said:


> Holy shit, this worked! I listened to it for 5 mins and it reduced it considerably.
> 
> I will keep listening to this for a couple of days and see what happens.
> 
> Thanks for sharing!


Oh wow, I'm so happy to hear that! If you're still seeing a doctor about it, maybe you can show them and ask if they have any idea how this could explain the cause of your tinnitus better. I have a hunch that sometimes it might be neurological, while other times it might be caused by physical damage. Or maybe look for science papers on the topic, since there likely is a source that sparked making this video. There's always some promising stuff to find in papers, that hasn't made it's way into the professional medical consensus yet.




davidanthony said:


> I also heard explosive "crackling" noises in response to certain loud stimuli (knife on a cutting board was a big trigger).


Does this sound kind of like white noise through a lowpass filter? If so, I know what sound you mean, I get it every time I see something that triggers my phobia. I think it's blood rushing to my ears or something like that. So I wonder if there's a psychological component that causes a physical reaction for your tinnitus trigger. If I remember correctly there was an experiment with people with phobias that went blind for neurological reasons - meaning they couldn't see anymore, but their eyes were physically functional. When shown the triggers for their phobias these people experienced fear, but they didn't know _why_. Isn't that wild? This has huge implications about how our brain works and how much of it isn't conscious. I wouldn't be surprised if traditional Chinese medicine is more effective at tapping into that and making changes, since poking needles at specific points does communicate with the brain in a measurable direct way.


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## RobbertZH (Jan 7, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Oh wow, I'm so happy to hear that! If you're still seeing a doctor about it, maybe you can show them and ask if they have any idea how this could explain the cause of your tinnitus better.


Hmmm .. the sound of the video consist of a water stream (random white noise) and random pitches on top of that. Sadly after 10 minutes of listening to it, I still hear my high pitched tinnitus

About my tinnitus, I have mostly a constant high pitch but the volume differs or is sometimes even still. Or maybe my attention is not on the tinnitus sound at certain moments, but focused on other things, and therefore I do not "hear" it.

My ear doctor described the problem as follows:
Due to hearing damage I cannot hear certain high pitches less or at all.
My brain is apparently missing these pitches, and to compensate this it "generates" these missing pitches itself.

But probably that is only a theory.
The problem is already described by the early Egyptians and probably does exist since the birth of mankind.


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## davidanthony (Jan 7, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Does this sound kind of like white noise through a lowpass filter?


Perfect description, sounds exactly like an engineer slowly raising the fader on low-passed white noise until it's most of what I can hear out of that ear, and then gently fading it back out after a few seconds.



MartinH. said:


> If so, I know what sound you mean, I get it every time I see something that triggers my phobia. I think it's blood rushing to my ears or something like that. So I wonder if there's a psychological component that causes a physical reaction for your tinnitus trigger.


There is definitely a psychological component! It was helpful to me to learn to think of it less as a 1:1 thing (e.g. see X, and my ear does Y) and more of the Chinese medicine way, which sees the body as a whole system that needs to remain in balance. 

When things put the body out of balance (and excess fear/emotion can certainly be one of those things) the body will respond. Because our bodies are such a multi-layered system (this is also something that Western medicine tends to miss -- we like to think of things as contained to the specific body part or region that they're happening in) sometimes it isn't directly obvious what actions are influencing which response. For something like tinnitus it's very rarely just ONE thing that puts your body into a given state, but rather an accumulation.

So a practitioner of Chinese medicine looks at your body, sees all the ways it's out of balance (by looking at your tongue and measuring a few pulses on the wrist -- which on one level is absolutely bonkers in the era of blood sampling and MRI machines), and then uses the needles and herbs to put the body back into balance and minimize the impact of any triggers until you can achieve silence. 



MartinH. said:


> This has huge implications about how our brain works and how much of it isn't conscious. I wouldn't be surprised if traditional Chinese medicine is more effective at tapping into that and making changes, since poking needles at specific points does communicate with the brain in a measurable direct way.


Exactly. Chinese medicine is basically built around addressing the negative impacts of subconscious and automatic body processes, which is why it's so effective for something like this.


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## Pier (Jan 7, 2022)

davidanthony said:


> What finally worked for me was acupuncture.


My wife has been having tinnitus issues too (which strangely seemed to appear at the same time as mine) and has been trying acupuncture. So far she's only done 4-5 sessions and she says it helped her a lot. Shen went from being woken up in the middle of the night by her tinnitus to going days without noticing it.

Thanks for that PDF you shared, seems quite interesting.



RobbertZH said:


> My ear doctor described the problem as follows:
> Due to hearing damage I cannot hear certain high pitches less or at all.
> My brain is apparently missing these pitches, and to compensate this it "generates" these missing pitches itself.
> 
> ...


Hopefully more research will go into tinnitus. I guess the fundamental issue is that we don't have an easy way to "look" into the inner ear and brain.


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## davidanthony (Jan 7, 2022)

Pier said:


> My wife has been having tinnitus issues too (which strangely seemed to appear at the same time as mine) and has been trying acupuncture.


Not strange at all according to Chinese medicine -- many of the factors that influence the body and lead to things like tinnitus are things that are shared by partners: diets, stresses, environmental conditions where you live, physical predispositions, etc. It's very hard to imagine something like the humidity in the air impacting tinnitus, but things like that can be a factor because of the cumulative effect they have on the body.

To analogize a bit, it's kind of like if you hit two people with a stick in the same place. You would expect them to display similar injuries. Unfortunately in this case, daily life is the stick  

Very glad that your wife is getting positive results!



Pier said:


> Thanks for that PDF you shared, seems quite interesting.


My pleasure. Modern traditional chinese medicine practitioners are starting to appreciate the value in "westernizing" their insights to appeal to a broader population, so there's a lot more clinical trialing and empirical data being generated. Scientific documentation was helpful to convince me to try acupuncture (although to be completely honest I remained skeptical until I received positive results myself -- now it's a permanent part of my health maintenance routine).


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## SergeD (Jan 7, 2022)

Tralen said:


> 10 minutes under water without breathing apparatus should certainly stop tinnitus!


That was my point, unfortunately it's not yet confirmed by experimentators.


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## D Halgren (Jan 7, 2022)

SergeD said:


> That was my point, unfortunately it's not yet confirmed by experimentators.


He means that you would die.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 7, 2022)

davidanthony said:


> In my case a big contributing factor was stress, so my internal begging/pleading with my body for symptoms to go away actually made things worse as I was putting my nervous system into a panicked feedback loop



Yes, this is why It bothers me when people (I'm thinking specifically of someone I love - and no, not myself  ) are too quick to attribute every ailment to stress. It's too short a step to blaming yourself!

The thing is, stress is also there when you don't have issues. That's the nature of life!

And I'm glad acupuncture worked for you. I can't imagine it working for people with cochlear damage - which I think is most tinnitus, at least here - but I know it's great for a lot of things.


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## davidanthony (Jan 7, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> And I'm glad acupuncture worked for you. I can't imagine it working for people with cochlear damage - which I think is most tinnitus, at least here - but I know it's great for a lot of things.


Based on my limited understanding of this I actually can't see a clear reason why it wouldn't work. 

I know that Western medicine says that mammalian hair cell damage is permanent and irreversible. But even assuming that's 100% true (and it might not be -- it's hard to safely and profitably construct studies around this kind of thing, so there's not a lot of data on it, but https://www.researchgate.net/public...air_cells_of_rats_with_sensorineural_deafness)

But even accepting the damaged condition of the cochlea as permanent, the neurological response to that damage is also an avenue for treatment. So I would think, worst case scenario, acupuncture could at least turn down the volume on the Tinnitus amp a few clicks.

But I'll ask my acupuncturist about this on Monday, treating tinnitus is a special interest of his and he's a straight shooter (affiliated with a major hospital and refers people to Western docs when he knows he can't help) so I'll see what he says.


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## Tralen (Jan 7, 2022)

Pier said:


> My wife has been having tinnitus issues too (which strangely seemed to appear at the same time as mine) and has been trying acupuncture. So far she's only done 4-5 sessions and she says it helped her a lot. Shen went from being woken up in the middle of the night by her tinnitus to going days without noticing it.
> 
> Thanks for that PDF you shared, seems quite interesting.
> 
> ...


I remember you mentioned your wife's tinnitus in that other thread. I'm glad she is improving.

My tinnitus was really bad last year and I also had trouble sleeping, but it improved enormously after I changed to an open-back headphone and reduced my exposure time (we talked about that in that thread).

It started when I was young and played flute in marching bands. After spending hours marching with dozens of flutes around me, I could still hear them ringing all through the night and when waking up. I eventually realized that it wasn't the flutes that I was hearing. The doctors couldn't put sense in my head and it got worse after I started playing and singing in rock/metal bands.

There is a problematic relationship between my tinnitus and the flute, which is sadly my instrument, so much that for the last decade or so, I couldn't be bothered to play it. I recall a devastating experience I had after sitting next to the piccolo during practice for Verdi's Gerusalemme. The thing runs for 3 hours and the only thing I was hearing in the end was the piccolo. After that, I quit the ensemble.


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## Pier (Jan 7, 2022)

Tralen said:


> There is a problematic relationship between my tinnitus and the flute, which is sadly my instrument, so much that for the last decade or so, I couldn't be bothered to play it. I recall a devastating experience I had after sitting next to the piccolo during practice for Verdi's Gerusalemme. The thing runs for 3 hours and the only thing I was hearing in the end was the piccolo. After that, I quit the ensemble.


I'm sorry to hear this.

My "instrument" are synths and I don't know what I would do if I couldn't play them.

I don't know what type of flute you're playing, but have you tried playing a lower flute? Maybe not one from the classical types, but something like a bass bansuri.


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## Tralen (Jan 7, 2022)

Pier said:


> I'm sorry to hear this.
> 
> My "instrument" are synths and I don't know what I would do if I couldn't play them.
> 
> I don't know what type of flute you're playing, but have you tried playing a lower flute? Maybe not one from the classical types, but something like a bass bansuri.



I played the concert flute. A bansuri like that really interests me. For a long time I played a peruvian flute I got as a present. It was tuned a fifth lower in F and it was a joy to play. It was lost when I moved to another city. I'm currently playing just an Alto Recorder and my EWI.

I was quoting the prices for an alto concert flute, but they are absurdly high here in Brazil. I'm now investigating some elaborate wooden flutes a local artisan is producing (I started this thread about it). My guess is that, together with a lower range, a wooden flute should have less impact on my tinnitus.


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## Saxer (Jan 7, 2022)

I'm a flute player too. A few month ago a music shop around here had an end sale and I could get a piccolo for a good price. Never had a picc before. I can't play it. It's an immediate Tinnitus trigger. Even with an earplug in my right ear (which is my Tinnitus ear and the direction of the transverse flute) it starts ringing right away.


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## antsteep (Jan 7, 2022)

I have always had proper hearing protection and worn them as a concert goer or performer. Still, after years of having a DJ career, the time exposed to loud noise has left me with a little ringing. 

If I am being good to myself and doing my daily meditation I don't notice the ringing. If I skip the self care and get stressed from deadlines, I do notice the ringing. I do believe there is an emotional aspect to it and your state of mind is the easiest thing to address.


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## AlexRuger (Jan 9, 2022)

davidanthony said:


> Based on my limited understanding of this I actually can't see a clear reason why it wouldn't work.
> 
> I know that Western medicine says that mammalian hair cell damage is permanent and irreversible. But even assuming that's 100% true (and it might not be -- it's hard to safely and profitably construct studies around this kind of thing, so there's not a lot of data on it, but https://www.researchgate.net/public...air_cells_of_rats_with_sensorineural_deafness)
> 
> ...


Can't tell you how much I appreciate you having a scientific approach to this. Too often people pushing acupuncture or other Chinese medicine are all, "Western medicine is a scam, Eastern medicine can cure cancer but big pharma wants you to die!" 

Interesting about treating the neurological response to cochlear damage. I 100% have cochlear damage so perhaps this is a route I could take. Is your acupuncturist in LA by chance?


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## davidanthony (Jan 9, 2022)

AlexRuger said:


> Can't tell you how much I appreciate you having a scientific approach to this. Too often people pushing acupuncture or other Chinese medicine are all, "Western medicine is a scam, Eastern medicine can cure cancer but big pharma wants you to die!"


Yeah the acupuncture-or-bust crowd does a huge disservice to the "brand". Room for both approaches.


AlexRuger said:


> Interesting about treating the neurological response to cochlear damage. I 100% have cochlear damage so perhaps this is a route I could take. Is your acupuncturist in LA by chance?


He is! To be clear the one I'm seeing now is not the same one who treated me for tinnitus in 2015 (I was in the bay area at the time), but he is the one with the special interest in tinnitus and his most recent yelp review is someone mentioning he fixed theirs so I'm confident he knows what he's doing in that department. Very nice guy and because he has worked with hospitals is good at working with insurance coverage if you have it to minimize your out of pocket.









John Barrett, LAc, DAOM - Los Angeles, CA


Specialties: Being on staff at Cedars Sinai, with a private practice in Century City, trained in the United States and China in both Eastern & Western medicine, and 20 years experience (including 5 studies & research, 15 private practice), Dr. Barrett strives to provide a most comprehensive form...




www.yelp.com





I'm going in to see him tomorrow and will report back to the thread about what he says on cochlear damage vs. other etiologies but I did some more research and I imagine he'll say it's at least worth a shot: 



https://www.scielo.br/j/rboto/a/7vK95xPq9hqNmL8jpHSFZwF/?format=pdf&lang=en











The Study of Otoacoustic Emissions and the Suppression of Otoacoustic Emissions in Subjects with Tinnitus and Normal Hearing: An Insight to Tinnitus Etiology


Introduction Analysis of the suppression effect is a simple method to evaluate cochlear status and central auditory mechanisms and, more specifically, the medial olivocochlear system. This structure may be involved in the generation of mechanisms ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## AlexRuger (Jan 10, 2022)

Amazing, thank you @davidanthony.


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## davidanthony (Jan 10, 2022)

AlexRuger said:


> Amazing, thank you @davidanthony.


Of course! 

So I spoke to Dr. Barrett today, and bottom line is a diagnosis of "cochlear damage" does _not_ in and of itself prevent someone from achieving relief through acupuncture. 

The full convo as best as I remember it:

- Tinnitus and cochleas are complicated and he would need to talk to a potential patient and see the workup from their ENTs to be able to speak more concretely about the extent of the cochlear damage and whether and how he can help any given individual. 

- He has noticed that some ENTs will tell patients their cochleas are damaged and their tinnitus is intractable as sort of a "fallback" diagnosis without much in the way of evidence to support it. (David's note: this was consistent with my experience back in 2015.) Sometimes ENTs properly identify damage, and then that's a different discussion (e.g. cochlear replacement).

- ENTs also diagnose irreversible hair cell damage, which is a bit of a binary approach. It is looking like there is a possibility of a middle ground where hair cells can be damaged, and causing tinnitus, but not fully dead and incapable of rejuvenation.

- Generally, tinnitus is not easy to treat, which is why he's interested in it, he enjoys challenges. In his experience about 20% of patients achieve relief after 1 visit, 60% after 6 visits. The more that's going on in addition to the tinnitus, the harder it can be to achieve a positive result, e.g. he once had a patient who also developed hyperacusis and was so sensitive to noise Dr. Barrett couldn't even open the packages of acupuncture needles in the room with them.

- Sometimes it can be beneficial for a prospective tinnitus patient to start herbal treatment in advance of the acupuncture so the tissue can be a little more receptive to treatment.

- Ultimately a diagnosis of cochlear damage is not a reason to lose hope! Dr. Barrett said he would be happy if you, Alex, or anyone else who is interested want to call him to discuss more and see if he might be a good fit for your issue.

** End convo

Similarly I'm happy to answer any Qs, but I'll generally say I think if you can afford it and are open to it, it's worth checking out (and not just for tinnitus, my wife has struggled with several debilitating migraines per month for as long as I've known her and has only had a single mild one in the ~3 months since she started seeing Dr. Barrett, so there's a wealth of things it can be good for!) 

As a bonus there's plenty of free 2 hour street parking about 4 minute walk from the office down the hill @ Olympic and Spaulding, just be mindful of the street sweeping days.


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## AlexRuger (Jan 11, 2022)

Thank you so much! I'll be in touch with him.

Fun fact: I've been doing hyperbaric oxygen treatments and, for roughly 1 to 4 hours after the session, my tinnitus is _dramatically _quieter. No idea why, as mechanically it doesn't make much sense to me. But it's a massive, massive difference, no way I'm imagining it. If you suffer from crazy tinnitus like me, it may be worth it just for the short vacation.

(Though, be warned, it's very expensive. I'm doing it to help heal some stubborn post-concussion symptoms, and the help with the tinnitus is an unexpected and great side effect).


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## davidanthony (Jan 11, 2022)

AlexRuger said:


> Fun fact: I've been doing hyperbaric oxygen treatments and, for roughly 1 to 4 hours after the session, my tinnitus is _dramatically _quieter. No idea why, as mechanically it doesn't make much sense to me.


Awesome that this brings you some relief! 

One popular model/explanation for tinnitus suggests heavy central nervous system contribution (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2083119/) and from reading it seems like hyperbaric oxygen has a major impact on CNS function, so there's a possible link there. Oxygenating the blood and reducing inflammation in the body are never bad things either...

Whatever it is, I think it bodes well for you -- seems to be at least physically possible for the tinnitus to diminish in amplitude!


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## AlexRuger (Jan 13, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> (Apologies if someone mentioned this- haven't read through the whole thread yet)
> 
> I know this might sound whacked out, but I was talking to a friend of mine who is into all this holistic healing stuff. I mentioned my tinnitus issue. She informed me that tinnitus is common in many of their clients and its the way our body is transmitting that theres a problem on an emotional level. Basically a disrupted pattern in our communication; for example, issues with something we're not willing to hear or accept. Another reason may be fear of criticism, which would make sense for any artist.
> 
> ...


There's too many potential causes of tinnitus and it's too difficult to rigorously test them to be able to say anything certain about a single case.

I very definitely have hearing loss up near 20k and at around 4k. I have a few acoustic traumas that, put together, can very handily explain my ear issues.

I also have had far too many concussions. That too can, simply and on its own, explain it.

I've dealt with anxiety and depression all my life. I very much doubt that that could be a potential _cause,_ but solidly explains why it might _seem _worse at times, or why I might have become far more _aware _of it. That said, it also might have simply gotten worse, and I noticed it, and _that _worsened my anxiety/depression. The latter seems a bit more likely IMO.

Perhaps a combination of all of the above. Chronic stress leads to all sorts of physiological, measurable symptoms, and those might set the stage for otherwise innocuous events such as a loud sound to cause more damage than normal. Etc. It's likely a highly individualized, perfect storm type of thing, which is why science has had such a hard time getting a handle on it. Plus, the ear itself is physically difficult to examine for a variety of reasons. Ditto the brain, and tinnitus is likely a problem of both.

The problem with what your friend said -- "it's the way our body is transmitting that theres a problem on an emotional level" -- is 1) how can you prove that, and 2) what about the literally billions of people who have tons of emotional problems and don't have tinnitus? I don't recall hearing that Holocaust survivors had a higher incidence of tinnitus than usual, but soldiers certainly do. Is one more traumatic than the other? That's a silly game to play, and the answer is clearly "both are highly traumatic beyond what any person can reasonably endure," but only one is super loud.

Holistic medicine so confidently asserts things without any evidence. The body doesn't need to "transmit" that there's a problem on an emotional level -- _that's what feelings are for. _The median is the message in this case -- _the transmission of emotions is called *emotion,* _and they're far more specific and clearly-received by the listener than a sustained tone.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 13, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> She informed me that tinnitus is common in many of their clients and its the way our body is transmitting that theres a problem on an emotional level. Basically a disrupted pattern in our communication; for example, issues with something we're not willing to hear or accept. Another reason may be fear of criticism, which would make sense for any artist.


What an incredible load of bullshit!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 13, 2022)

AlexRuger said:


> Thank you so much! I'll be in touch with him.
> 
> Fun fact: I've been doing hyperbaric oxygen treatments and, for roughly 1 to 4 hours after the session, my tinnitus is _dramatically _quieter. No idea why, as mechanically it doesn't make much sense to me. But it's a massive, massive difference, no way I'm imagining it. If you suffer from crazy tinnitus like me, it may be worth it just for the short vacation.
> 
> (Though, be warned, it's very expensive. I'm doing it to help heal some stubborn post-concussion symptoms, and the help with the tinnitus is an unexpected and great side effect).


My guess: because the chamber is silent.

It's purely a guess, but my reason for saying that is that - as I wrote above - I get tinnitus only when it's triggered by steady-state, pretty much broadband noise.


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 13, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> What an incredible load of bullshit!


😂 I know how that comes off ... it’s just a perceptive and I fully accept that it could be bullshit. But don’t knock it till you rock it.

Basically on a more logical level, what I’m trying to say is mindfulness and meditation has helped.


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## AlexRuger (Jan 13, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> My guess: because the chamber is silent.
> 
> It's purely a guess, but my reason for saying that is that - as I wrote above - I get tinnitus only when it's triggered by steady-state, pretty much broadband noise.


My tinnitus tones are constant, 24/7/365. So clearly these are already quite different.

Also, the hyperbaric tank is far from silent. The sound of the oxygen pumping is a pretty harsh pink/white noise, and the pressurization process is so loud I have to plug my ears.

It's a bit of a mystery, but very, very obvious.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 13, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> don’t knock it till you rock it.


I've rocked that and many other things in my short life.

But you could be right - maybe it's horseshit rather than bullshit.



> mindfulness and meditation has helped



That's very different! And I'm glad they did help.


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## chillbot (Mar 18, 2022)

Wow I'd seen this thread bouncing around for years but never read through it. Had no idea so many of you suffered from this! And much worse than me. I got a ringing sine wave in one ear yesterday afternoon all of a sudden while working (not loudly) and it seems like my hearing out of that ear is only at about 50%. Was hoping it would be magically better this morning but not so. Internet tells me I may have been hitting the advil too hard (for pain in my hands) though who knows if actually related. Can't think of any other cause. Feels like something is out of whack like if I go play basketball later and bump around with the big guys and maybe go for a swim after I could knock it back in place but I've never experienced anything like it. Very difficult trying to mix anything at the moment...


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## Marsen (Mar 18, 2022)

chillbot said:


> I got a ringing sine wave in one ear


I have this regularly maybe once a month out of the blue. 
But it fades away within 5-10 seconds.

if it stays that long, you may better think of consulting a doctor, seriously. 

Hope you‘ll be fine soon.


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## Pier (Mar 18, 2022)

Marsen said:


> I have this regularly maybe once a month out of the blue.
> But it fades away within 5-10 seconds.
> 
> if it stays that long, you may better think of consulting a doctor, seriously.
> ...


Me too, once every couple of weeks.

When it happens it scares the shit out of me, but it passes quickly and then forget about it until the next time.


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## agarner32 (Mar 18, 2022)

Pier said:


> Me too, once every couple of weeks.
> 
> When it happens it scares the shit out of me, but it passes quickly and then forget about it until the next time.


I've had this for years and mine goes away in a few seconds too. I also have permanent tinnitus, but I've learned to live with it. Chillbot, there is a chance it could be a wax build-up. Mine has been constant since my early 20s, but it does get worse with ear wax. Just a thought.


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## davidanthony (Mar 18, 2022)

chillbot said:


> I got a ringing sine wave in one ear yesterday afternoon all of a sudden while working (not loudly) and it seems like my hearing out of that ear is only at about 50%. Was hoping it would be magically better this morning but not so. Internet tells me I may have been hitting the advil too hard (for pain in my hands) though who knows if actually related.


Lay off the NSAIDs for a little bit as they probably won't help (most are ototoxic). As far as the hand pain goes, IME pains that are temporarily relieved with NSAIDs but then return are almost always due to trigger points / muscle imbalances that are exacerbated by movement (do you play any instruments?)

The perceived 50% reduction in hearing suggests impaction is a possibility (wax buildup, and maybe you had a small head cold recently?). If you can go to an ENT they can scope the ear and verify there's nothing in there, or you can try DIY removal with warm oil and a specially tipped syringe but I really don't recommend this unless you spend about an hour or two researching how to do it because it's easy to do damage!


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## AlexRuger (Mar 18, 2022)

davidanthony said:


> Lay off the NSAIDs for a little bit as they probably won't help (most are ototoxic). As far as the hand pain goes, IME pains that are temporarily relieved with NSAIDs but then return are almost always due to trigger points / muscle imbalances that are exacerbated by movement (do you play any instruments?)
> 
> The perceived 50% reduction in hearing suggests impaction is a possibility (wax buildup, and maybe you had a small head cold recently?). If you can go to an ENT they can scope the ear and verify there's nothing in there, or you can try DIY removal with warm oil and a specially tipped syringe but I really don't recommend this unless you spend about an hour or two researching how to do it because it's easy to do damage!


Gonna piggyback off this and say absolutely DO NOT do a DIY removal. And if an ENT offers to suction earwax, also DO NOT do that. Both are horrendously dangerous.

Agreed that you should lay off the NSAIDs. I don't take any at all due to the ototoxicity. Acetaminophen is a less dangerous choice if you absolutely need pain meds.

In my experience, sine wave tinnitus is often ear wax, but the fact that it's coupled with 50% hearing is a little concerning. Definitely go see an ENT ASAP. I highly recommend Behrad Aynehchi for LA folks, he's one of the best doctors I've ever seen.


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## georgewmusic (Mar 18, 2022)

Kony said:


> I've had tinnitus all my life so I'm used to it. In my case, it's a very high pitched sine wave.... It can be frustrating when trying to mix, or compose quiet cues (especially with woodwind upper ranges).
> 
> I'm just wondering if any of you also have tinnitus, and if you have any tips or advice for how you deal with it.


I think I've had some form of it all my life as I can recall being young and thinking that that ringing is just the absence of sound.

I worked in a pub for a while and had an unfortunate incident of dropping a tray of mugs in a very small space. My right ear has never been the same since. Was like a gunshot going off in a cupboard. However, I still think I'm relatively lucky as my main complaining tinnitus is around the 14.5K mark so is relatively easier to ignore.

That said, I think the worst element is that the "frequency response" of my ears is no longer matched. My right ear has noticeable dips around 4, 8 and 11k. if I scan through the frequency spectrum everything always starts to lean left in these areas. Makes panning difficult with some things and trusting balance between an orchestra harder as my cellos are always a bit louder than they perhaps should be as a result.

I think the best advice I can give is sadly, quite obvious. Learn where your weaknesses are and accommodate for them. In the same way you would an untreated room with boomy or ringing frequencies. Adapt to the situation. It sucks. But it's the only way to live with it.

...frequency analysers help too...


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## Dirtgrain (Mar 18, 2022)

My tinnitus has been noticeably worse the last three weeks, ever since my son's middle school band concert. The sixth and seventh graders "warmed up" on stage for almost 30 minutes, with some little ____'s clearly trying to be obnoxiously loud and screechy. I'm never going again without earplugs, and I worry about my son's hearing. Some of the kids on stage, seated, had kids standing behind them with horns point-blank aimed at the heads of the seated kids. 

Do musicians in orchestra take measures to protect their hearing, or am I just sensitive because I already had tinnitus?


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## CATDAD (Mar 18, 2022)

chillbot said:


> Wow I'd seen this thread bouncing around for years but never read through it. Had no idea so many of you suffered from this! And much worse than me. I got a ringing sine wave in one ear yesterday afternoon all of a sudden while working (not loudly) and it seems like my hearing out of that ear is only at about 50%. Was hoping it would be magically better this morning but not so. Internet tells me I may have been hitting the advil too hard (for pain in my hands) though who knows if actually related. Can't think of any other cause. Feels like something is out of whack like if I go play basketball later and bump around with the big guys and maybe go for a swim after I could knock it back in place but I've never experienced anything like it. Very difficult trying to mix anything at the moment...


+1 for possible blockage! Sometimes wax buildup is almost blocking the ear, then suddenly “settles” in a way that fully blocks the ear seemingly out of nowhere. I am prone to wax buildup as I have fairly hard earwax, and it can fall in to my ear in such a way that puts pressure on my inner ear. This can cause pain, extra ringing, pressure, and/or temporary hearing loss. If it lasts longer than a week or two definitely see an ENT, *and don’t stick that finger/qtip in there!* In all likelihood, if it was sudden and not during a particularly loud event, it’ll be a temporary/solvable issue.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 18, 2022)

chillbot said:


> Wow I'd seen this thread bouncing around for years but never read through it. Had no idea so many of you suffered from this! And much worse than me. I got a ringing sine wave in one ear yesterday afternoon all of a sudden while working (not loudly) and it seems like my hearing out of that ear is only at about 50%. Was hoping it would be magically better this morning but not so. Internet tells me I may have been hitting the advil too hard (for pain in my hands) though who knows if actually related. Can't think of any other cause. Feels like something is out of whack like if I go play basketball later and bump around with the big guys and maybe go for a swim after I could knock it back in place but I've never experienced anything like it. Very difficult trying to mix anything at the moment...


Get thee to an ENT ASAP. Most likely he or she will put you on a course of steroids to nip it in the butt., although lots of things can cause it (short of cochlear damage).

My guess is that it's temporary, from your description,


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## chillbot (Mar 18, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Get thee to an ENT ASAP.


This thread is 8 pages of people dealing with various forms of tinnitus, some lasting for years or lifetimes. Why is mine suddenly urgent? Internet (I know, I know) claims it's probably not serious.

Wax build up, I dunno.. maybe? I had tons of ear infections as a kid so I am always (gently) cleaning my ears out... I can't get a drop of water in there without seemingly risking an infection. Or at least now it's just habit.

For a bit there I thought the ringing had stopped but then I closed my eyes and realized I had just gotten used to it, shit.


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## NoamL (Mar 18, 2022)

Yep definitely schedule an ENT. At the very least they can scope out your ear canal and see if it's wax.


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## NoamL (Mar 18, 2022)

and FWIW 100% agreed with @AlexRuger about never doing the "DIY" ear wax softeners. Easy way to get infected.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 18, 2022)

chillbot said:


> This thread is 8 pages of people dealing with various forms of tinnitus, some lasting for years or lifetimes. Why is mine suddenly urgent? Internet (I know, I know) claims it's probably not serious.
> 
> Wax build up, I dunno.. maybe? I had tons of ear infections as a kid so I am always (gently) cleaning my ears out... I can't get a drop of water in there without seemingly risking an infection. Or at least now it's just habit.
> 
> For a bit there I thought the ringing had stopped but then I closed my eyes and realized I had just gotten used to it, shit.



It's urgent because it came on all of a sudden and there's a good chance it can be dealt with. I have no idea whether treating it in time will make a difference, but it could.


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## AceAudioHQ (Mar 18, 2022)

I’ve been extremely protective of my hearing, always wearing earplugs and avoiding noisy gigs, so when I got my tinnitus after having an influenza in new years 2016-17 I was extremely annoyed. 

I’ve never been as sick, I had muscle pain, high fever, headache, breathlessness and so on, and my left ear got muffled, the doctors couldn’t find anything wrong with it, no wax, nothing in the head mri (which I had to pay myself, over 1000€), I just felt like I was underwater all the time, and I had to sit on it since they couldn’t find anything. 

After three months, my ear started hearing a bit better and a few months later the clogginess had disappeared, it was otherwise normal, but I had a permanent dip at 13.5khz in my left ear, and I hear a low rumbling sound all the time, which I also feel physically (in my ear and in my left eye), and a high pitched whine in both ears, which doesn’t bother me that much. My ear also flutters sometimes. The rumbling is extremely annoying, it sometimes gets a bit better but sometimes I think the dishwasher is on when it’s not, or there’s a truck running outside.

I can get rid of the high whine for a few hours by listening to white noise, or tapping the back of my head with my fingers while holding my mouth open, but nothing seems to help with the rumble.


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## AlexRuger (Mar 19, 2022)

chillbot said:


> This thread is 8 pages of people dealing with various forms of tinnitus, some lasting for years or lifetimes. Why is mine suddenly urgent? Internet (I know, I know) claims it's probably not serious.
> 
> Wax build up, I dunno.. maybe? I had tons of ear infections as a kid so I am always (gently) cleaning my ears out... I can't get a drop of water in there without seemingly risking an infection. Or at least now it's just habit.
> 
> For a bit there I thought the ringing had stopped but then I closed my eyes and realized I had just gotten used to it, shit.


Your tinnitus is not urgent at all. If it can be dealt with, great. It honestly probably can't be, but it's worth checking.

What _is _urgent is the hearing loss. Google "Sudden Hearing Loss" and you'll see some crazy shit. I've had it twice, went 99% deaf in my left ear both times, and only high doses of corticosteroids brought it back. Time is of the essence with this stuff.


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## Kony (Mar 19, 2022)

AlexRuger said:


> went 99% deaf in my left ear both times


Do you know what caused this?


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## chillbot (Mar 19, 2022)

AlexRuger said:


> What _is _urgent is the hearing loss.


Thank you. I feel like the 50% loss I quoted was mostly because it was hard to hear anything over the ringing in my right ear. Now that I've gotten used to the ringing it doesn't seem quite as bad, maybe 20%. I'll do some tests with headphones.


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## MartinH. (Mar 19, 2022)

Dirtgrain said:


> I'm never going again without earplugs, and I worry about my son's hearing. Some of the kids on stage, seated, had kids standing behind them with horns point-blank aimed at the heads of the seated kids.
> 
> Do musicians in orchestra take measures to protect their hearing, or am I just sensitive because I already had tinnitus?



I believe if they don't wear earplugs they all will get hearing damage eventually (both your son and the orchestra musicians). Also it doesn't have to be a nice gradual buildup, once can be enough. I have tinnitus since I was guest at a bandpractice for the first time ever. Had no clue how loud this was gonna be, at that time I never was to a concert or similar before.


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## AlexRuger (Mar 19, 2022)

Kony said:


> Do you know what caused this?


Nope. Medical science has its theories but none of them are proven. It's just "surprise, you're deaf!" literally out of the blue.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2022)

AlexRuger said:


> Your tinnitus is not urgent at all. If it can be dealt with, great. It honestly probably can't be, but it's worth checking.



See, I feel strongly that no one here who isn't qualified should be giving medical advice. You and I have absolutely NFI whether or not it's urgent. Nor do we have the faintest idea whether it can honestly be treated.

There are many things than cause tinnitus, as people have said. Some of them absolutely are urgent.

That's why I say ignore the Internet and see a specialist yesterday.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2022)

Sorry, I deleted my post shouting at Alex. I thought he was talking about medical science in general, not about his specific condition!


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## AlexRuger (Mar 20, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Sorry, I deleted my post shouting at Alex. I thought he was talking about medical science in general, not about his specific condition!


Ha, well, I actually was talking about medical science in general. So shout away!

I'm making a very specific distinction, though: the _tinnitus _is not urgent. An underlying cause _might _be urgent. Feel me?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2022)

Where ignorance is bliss.


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## soulofsound (Mar 20, 2022)

I thought i had quite severe hearing loss until i found out the speaker cable in my car was faulty. I even went through a whole series of hearing tests before. They said i had stellar hearing but only checked up to 10kHz. I wasn't impressed by that.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 21, 2022)

This was bothering me when I saw the thread on the forum history list, so I want to add something.

Compare the life expectancy today to 1900 and tell me with a straight face that medical science is all unproven theory. Some of that is better nutrition, but most of it is revolutionary medical science.

Think about how many lives have been saved by all the vaccines, antiobiotics, drugs like insulin, heart transplants and other interventions, cures for many cancers (Jimmy Carter wouldn't still be around without one of them), and on and on.

How many people owe their lives to the covid vaccines? mRNA vaccines alone are a huge advance. There's a vaccine for uterine cancer now. X-rays were new, MRI and ultrasound.

The list continues for every part of the body.

That doesn't mean there's always a cure for tinnitus (which is a symptom, yes), or that everything is curable. But come on.

And I've only talked about lives saved, I haven't even mentioned diseases either cured or managed.


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## AlexRuger (Mar 21, 2022)

@Nick Batzdorf this is pointed at me, right? Literally nothing I said indicates that I think medical science is "all unproven theory." Anyone who thinks that is a fucking idiot and I would never say anything like that.

What I said is that, relative to the challenges medical science is _currently _facing/trying to solve, that which is _already _solved is unnervingly easy in comparison; the solves were revealed somewhat easily by nature, or via happy accident (such as penicillin). Which, you know, makes perfect sense: problems that are already solved are by definition easier to solve than those that have not yet been solved.

That isn't to take away from anyone's work or insult anyone. I'm just trying to convey the feeling of optimism regarding medical science before having dealt with some particularly nasty and difficult to solve issues. It's like climbing one mountain, only to realize once you're at the peak that it was hiding a much bigger mountain behind it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 21, 2022)

AlexRuger said:


> @Nick Batzdorf this is pointed at me, right? Literally nothing I said indicates that I think medical science is "all unproven theory." Anyone who thinks that is a fucking idiot and I would never say anything like that.



Okay, I misunderstood what I was shouting at and then deleted because I thought I misunderstood and was right and then misunderstood again and shouted at again. Sorry about that.



> That isn't to take away from anyone's work or insult anyone. I'm just trying to convey the feeling of optimism regarding medical science before having dealt with some particularly nasty and difficult to solve issues. It's like climbing one mountain, only to realize once you're at the peak that it was hiding a much bigger mountain behind it.



And I'm sorry to hear you've been dealing with those nasty issues.


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## JimDiGritz (Mar 21, 2022)

Reading this thread I'm genuinely wondering if I have tinnitus, I have a constant 10khz(ish) whine.. 24/7.

It's never really bothered me, although at night it can get 'loud'... I went to my first metal gig at 13 (Megadeth) and thought the mosh pit was great fun. I was literally deaf for a few days afterwards, scared the life out of me.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 21, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Reading this thread I'm genuinely wondering if I have tinnitus, I have a constant 10khz(ish) whine.. 24/7.
> 
> It's never really bothered me, although at night it can get 'loud'... I went to my first metal gig at 13 (Megadeth) and thought the mosh pit was great fun. I was literally deaf for a few days afterwards, scared the life out of me.


That's tinnitus.


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## JimDiGritz (Mar 21, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> That's tinnitus.


Well... crap.

Am very fortunate it's not worse.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 21, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Well... crap.
> 
> Am very fortunate it's not worse.



Yes. And my sage advice is to have it checked out in case there's anything that can be done.


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## Guffy (Mar 21, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Yes. And my sage advice is to have it checked out in case there's anything that can be done.


Out of curiosity, do you know of any instances where something _could_ be done?
Whenever i first got it i went to a general ear doc with seemingly little knowledge on the topic, but haven't seen anyone else since. Asking hoping i'll get a spark of inspiration


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 21, 2022)

Guffy said:


> Out of curiosity, do you know of any instances where something _could_ be done?
> Whenever i first got it i went to a general ear doc with seemingly little knowledge on the topic, but haven't seen anyone else since. Asking hoping i'll get a spark of inspiration



First, I'm just some guy on the Internet, not a healthcare professional, and you shouldn't listen to me.

But I'm sure the success depends on what's causing it. Someone in this thread went on a course of steroids and that took care of it, which presumably means it was caused by something that was inflamed. I guess it could also be earwax, hairs, high blood pressure... things other than cochlear damage.

Again, mine is inconsequential and not constant, but I went to an ENT when it first started over 20 years ago. Steroids didn't help me.


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## ManicMiner (Apr 16, 2022)

Had a professional harpist friend who was alarmed when she got Tinnitus. Hers went away in a couple of years after she found a vitamin combination that worked for her.
Other [more drastic] measures include fasting (fasting puts the body into repair mode and can start to heal ear damage. Some people report a level of healing after fasting.) Disclaimer: consult Dr. before fasting.
I have very high pitched tinnitus. Was very worried at first, but learned to live with it and ignore it mostly.


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## aeliron (Apr 28, 2022)

In case it helps ...


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## liquidlino (May 1, 2022)

aeliron said:


> In case it helps ...



Well, that video led me to try white noise for my tinnitus, and.. it seems to work! And if anyone needs any more discouragement about whether your music is popular, this video of literally just white noise has had 114M views (yes, 114 million. One Hundred and Fourteen with six more zeros afterwards. Why do we even bother with notes?).


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## Alchemedia (May 13, 2022)

Believe it or not, Elon Musk announced this week that he will cure tinnitus within 5 years. Of course he also Tweeted he's going to buy Coca-Cola so he can put the cocaine back in it.


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## ptram (May 13, 2022)

aeliron said:


> In case it helps ...


I like the parts in which he suggests that a giant magnet applied to your brain, or injecting some drug used to restart the hearth after a stroke, can give some relief…

Nice way to face up the problem, however. Listening him speech is already a way to cure tinnitus by shifting attention to something interesting.

Paolo


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## patrick76 (Jun 12, 2022)

Does anyone's tinnitus pulse? 

Mine started about a few weeks ago with a low rumbling sound. That turned into a low rumbling pulse, like a heartbeat. Now I have a high-pitched pulse that's basically constant and the low-pitched pulse happens more at night and in the morning. 

I went to an ENT a few weeks ago and they did a hearing test (my hearing was pretty normal), so they are basically just waiting for about a month to see if it magically goes away on its own. I googled the condition and of course, there are a few troubling possibilities for the cause.


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## Thundercat (Jun 12, 2022)

I have had loud tinnitus ever since I can remember, and I don't know the origin. It could be because I had terrible ear infections as a kid - too much dairy? Dunno but I can remember crying and crying as a little 5 yo kid because my ears were HURTING due to ear infection. I also had tubes in my ears to relieve pressure. Maybe these caused it.

I only attended (and stayed) a couple loud concerts in my life; I am "blessed" in that if the volume is too loud, my ears actually HURT!! I have to leave the venue immediately. Ear plugs help a little but if I have to use earplugs, I know damage is occurring, or likely occurring, so I hightail it outta there immediately.

Sucks because I do like live music! But I haven't been to a concert yet where they don't use earsplitting levels. Like another poster, I don't get the point. Loud does not mean cool, clever, or wonderful. It means hearing damage.

When dealing with moderate levels of sound, the ear tends to like "louder," - in blind AB testing usually the louder track wins. But I do not believe this applies to earsplitting levels.

Like another poster, I never notice it at all unless I'm in a quiet setting, and even then only when I'm actively listening to the silence. In other words, when I think about it.

But then it really bothers me and seems MUCH louder! As if a switch was flipped!!!! Really sux!!!

I have a similar situation with eye floaters. Ever since I was a kid I've had huge big floaters that really bother me - but again, only if I think about it and look at a blue sky. Then I see all manner of bizarre little things. Sigh.

At least it's not a daily annoyance because I don't pay attention and it seems not to be there, even though it is instantly there if I "tune in."

Thanks for the thread.

Mike


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## sostenuto (Jun 12, 2022)

Take sufficient CBD Gummies regularly, and lotsa common troubles will fade _ at least a bit. 
Tinnitus is on the list, but no way to know but dive in ??


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## LA68 (Jun 13, 2022)

Had it since I was 15 or so in both ears, louder on the left. A fairly high pitched sound. It can be annoying at times, but I don't feel like it has much of an impact on anything I do.

I have one odd habit because of it though: I don't like a super quiet room, so I basically always have some source of white noise running in the background. Like a fan or so. Other people find it annoying, for me it's quite relaxing. Maybe that's why Chimera is still one of my favorite synths


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## MartinH. (Jun 13, 2022)

patrick76 said:


> Does anyone's tinnitus pulse?
> 
> Mine started about a few weeks ago with a low rumbling sound. That turned into a low rumbling pulse, like a heartbeat. Now I have a high-pitched pulse that's basically constant and the low-pitched pulse happens more at night and in the morning.
> 
> I went to an ENT a few weeks ago and they did a hearing test (my hearing was pretty normal), so they are basically just waiting for about a month to see if it magically goes away on its own. I googled the condition and of course, there are a few troubling possibilities for the cause.


Generally my high frequency tinnitus is constant, but every couple of months or so I have a sort of pulsing low frequency sound sensation that only lasts for a couple seconds or so. I suspect it might be bloodflow related somehow. Sounds a bit like white noise through a lowpass filter or like when you're yawning.


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## Daniel (Jun 13, 2022)

Spotify /others platform will help. Please using headphone that comfort to use all day long.


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## Alexandre (Jun 15, 2022)

I work with a producer who's had tinnitus for 10 years and very recently was able to reduce it by 80% by taking high quality cbd oil...


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## sostenuto (Jun 15, 2022)

Alexandre said:


> I work with a producer who's had tinnitus for 10 years and very recently was able to reduce it by 80% by taking high quality cbd oil...


Glad for him !! My post was part fun and mostly serious, after following several lengthy Links. 
Personal Tinnitus is there 24/7, but relatively mild. CBD is potentially _ well worth a try for many.


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## Pier (Jun 30, 2022)




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## Oakran (Jun 30, 2022)

For a few months now I've been experimenting a bit with ginkgo biloba extract (pills) and it seems to work well when I have intense tinnitus crisis once in a while.
I'm not sure if it would work for everyone though.
To me the feeling is like taking the "tinnitus heat" off of my inner ear if that makes sense. It's super satisfying.


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## Pier (Jun 30, 2022)

Oakran said:


> For a few months now I've been experimenting a bit with ginkgo biloba extract (pills) and it seems to work well when I have intense tinnitus crisis once in a while.
> I'm not sure if it would work for everyone though.
> To me the feeling is like taking the "tinnitus heat" off of my inner ear if that makes sense. It's super satisfying.


I tried Ginkgo biloba extract and it did nothing for me. It was pharmaceutical grade, not bought at some herbology shop.

I'm glad it works for you though!


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## georgewmusic (Jul 1, 2022)

I had a big flare up of T recently having been a sufferer of mild T for many years. I went to my doc who prescribed me Mometasone nasal spray (a corticosteroid for inflamed sinuses). I have noticed some improvement just over a couple of weeks on. I also started taking lots of supplements around that time so not sure which has actually been the help.

I've been taking:
Magnesium
Vitamin B (1-12)
Vitamin D
Zinc

My T hasn't "gone" per se. But I definitely care less about it now than I did when it flared up.

I've also been doing some neck strengthening and TMJ exercises in case it's physiological.


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## Oakran (Jul 1, 2022)

Pier said:


> I tried Ginkgo biloba extract and it did nothing for me. It was pharmaceutical grade, not bought at some herbology shop.
> 
> I'm glad it works for you though!


Sorry to hear that, my brother also had no improvement with ginkgo sadly. It might be that even if we all suffer from the same affliction, for some tinnitus might be enhanced by different factors like increased blood pressure, ear wax, lack of sleep, stress, etc.
It's a shame that in 2022 we still don't have a standardized treatment though !


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## ptram (Jul 1, 2022)

Luckily, my tinnitus seems to be retreating. One of the triggering causes is however still effective, and it is the perception of subdued noises like vibrations from other apartment VACs or big fans.

I've probably found a solution to this, and it is noise masking. This is one of the suggestions given by my audiologist: turn on a TV or some music while trying to sleep. Unfortunately, I'm not able to sleep with TV or music on. As a musician, I don't like music used as background tapestry.

What about, however, if the masking noise was associated with a pleasant physical effect? I could finally find quiet desktop ventilators (around 30-35 dB at low speed). When working, they generate a noise with the same characteristics of the triggering noises. Not loud enough to be really annoying. More than anything else, associated with the physical benefit of feeling relief from the summer heat.

It works. Masking is effective, and the noise generated by the ventilators is ignored by being associated with another type of physical effect, this time a positive one. I'm sleeping well.

Paolo


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## georgewmusic (Jul 1, 2022)

For anyone seeking high quality masking sounds for tinnitus or just to relieve anxiety etc. I cannot recommend mynoise.net highly enough. Loads of different soundscapes, some specifically designed for tinnitus such as the Neuromodulator and Summer Night. Donating gives you access to an expanded library of sounds and helps keep the site up and helping people!

I have a word of caution for those who suffer Tinnitus in conjunction with hearing loss (which I imagine is quite a few of us). Where possible, avoid being exposed to frequencies beyond your hearing range at loud volumes. These can still damage your ears and as you can't hear them, you don't know how loud your playing them and what that could be doing. My T got significantly worse when I used a frequency generator to test my hearing and kept turning things up to hear fainter frequencies. Even if your perception is quiet, it could still be too loud for your ear to take without causing damage. Lets try and protect what we have left and not antagonise the T monster!


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## SergeD (Jul 1, 2022)

georgewmusic said:


> I've also been doing some neck strengthening and TMJ exercises in case it's physiological.


That's what I'm doing, neck strengthening using an elastic band, since about a month or two without noticeable results. 

But suffering from sleep apnea when lying on the back has declined thanks to this type of exercise.


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## Pier (Jul 1, 2022)

ptram said:


> I've probably found a solution to this, and it is noise masking. This is one of the suggestions given by my audiologist: turn on a TV or some music while trying to sleep. Unfortunately, I'm not able to sleep with TV or music on. As a musician, I don't like music used as background tapestry.


I saw a video of someone that used some super boring British radio weather reports that go on for hours with a monotonous voice.


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## robgb (Jul 1, 2022)

ptram said:


> As a musician, I don't like music used as background tapestry.


I'm the same way. A lot of my fellow novelists listen to music as they write. I can't do it.


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