# Here we are in 2015: Do you feel the idea of actively pursuing Hollywood still worth it? (Sorry long



## AlexandreSafi (Mar 12, 2015)

So…Here we are in 2015,

Credit to JohnG & KenK for indirectly encouraging me into me the idea of starting a new thread on focusing on a career in "Hollywood" film scoring.

[Again, my apology for the long unedited post...]

Here's a little story:
I walked out of the cinema end of last year, a big beautiful headache, witnessing, without a single doubt, the most powerful film & score I will probably ever have the chance to experience in the dark room… 

I thought to myself: *"I knew it, man that's what Hollywood does best! I want to be in the company of all the genuine people who made this! I want to live those collaborative experiences"*

However, to be honest, the thing you have to know about me is, as this exceptional cinema case doesn't always happen, I have developed this parallel negative habit, where I actually hardly enjoy as much as i maybe should a good amount of films that i watch, given maybe my long-time philosophical inclinations, and me pretentiously going: oh yeah, i feel i know what this movie wants to philosophically express to the audience ("human nature, love, hope, values, emotions, loneliness, redemption, psychoanalysis, human conflicts, war, battles, etc, etc..."), limiting maybe the process of enjoyment, which, i genuinely hope, says nothing about the quality of the films I watch! I also happen to have this habit of never really enjoying or loving a film score that isn’t made by a “very” select few at the top of the industry, not because I get hypnotized by the big guys and their status, but because I truly feel they are the real deal, and they genuinely represent the best film music you can hear them stand for in our time. I guess I have this subjective "hard-to-please antenna or internal system", if I can humbly put it that way…

Also, this will sound awesomely pretentious, but I believe I have, out of probably very personal events which happened to me in my past, developed a similar sensibility to compose & recognize a kind of story-telling-like music & melodies, as usually all the greats have in common, and to think about notes in a perfectionist, contemplative way because I want to give back to music and people exactly what music gave me and helped me with during those past times of mine as a child. When i write, practice, listen, I think about legacy, and contribution, hence i usually never want to miss the most meaningful set of notes I can find for myself and share with others...


But---These days I find myself wondering whether the scores that I don’t like as much, made by other Hollywood composers, are either less talented in crafting memorable work, or less free to be as creative as the composers at the top…
Again back to my profound experience at the cinema last year, I obviously couldn’t get more admirative & hopeful about Hollywood walking out, but in contrast with more & more stories I also hear & read, it is ironically why I’m concerned now more than ever, as to whether this "all-eyes-on" place is still right now truly one of the greatest place to be in the naive hope for making a lasting & meaningful contribution musically…

Does my one personal experience with a movie, should make me disregard the negatives that's said about Hollywood, and make me go for it?

At the end of the day, if I had to choose, I seem to care much more about being a part of great meaningful music, and possibly helping people telling meaningful stories along the way, than rather even making a living at it…

Anyways, here are a few transcripts, more or less about Hollywood, from different musicians I admire, which actually "confuse me" when put together:

_Mike Verta:_
_*“Your life as a musician is not gonna be—am I gonna make money or am I gonna make an artistic contribution, it's about balance, because let me make this absolutely clear—Working especially in Hollywood has next to zero to do with how talented you are…It's how you know who you know! Having talent is why they'll remember you in 50 years... Really good stuff has an enduring quality, that's got nothing to do with working today. Your clients will probably never know how good you are half the time, but your audience will... So don’t get hung up on Hollywood!”* _

--> Sounds realistic & honest, i'm partly surprised at the "clients 50-50" not seeing talent in an artist as well as the audience would, give or take... 

_Hans Zimmer: _
_*1)“I think having people that support you and your crazy ideas and making that come true is a remarkable thing about this industry”
2)"Whatever horrible things you want to say about Hollywood - which are all true - you can't take away this idea that it's the last place on Earth that actually supports orchestral music”.*_*
3)"I try to write music that can stand on its own two feet, apart from the picture..."*
*4)“I'm interested that some guy with no education from Frankfurt can make it in Hollywood. Because that means anybody can."*

--> Sounds optimistic, balanced, and even defining Hollywood as the place one would want to be in, if you feel you're the right person of course!

_James Horner: _
*"It’s interesting, for those of you who are composers, Hollywood has changed a great deal in the last 15 years, it used to be that the person that I would work with was almost always the director, sometimes the producer. Now…times haves changed and now you have a director and even if he’s a strong director you have 2 or 3 producers -- and even if there are 4 of them, we’re all agreeing what the music should be, you now also have the releasing company of the film and the studio involved much more creatively than it used to be. So suddenly you have 9 people you have to pay attention to and solve their problems, and one person will say “I love that part, and there too.” Somebody else will say “oh I really love this, i like this, but I didn’t like that and that [points elsewhere]” ---- It’s much more difficult now to write film music than it was even 10 years ago, it’s a lot more common street than it used to be…"*

--> Sounds brutally specific & honest

_James Newton Howard:_
*1)"You know, I’ve always believed that if someone is truly gifted, he/she’ll rise at the top, and get noticed, now that doesn’t mean that a lot of people that aren’t that gifted don’t get noticed, they do, but I think the most talented people that I’ve encountered--have succeeded or are--in the process of succeeding-- and I think will succeed…”
2)"I wish I had some great words of advice, in the case of writing a movie score, the only good advice that I’ve only been able to give anybody is “don’t worry about the picture, just worry about write great music and the rest will take care of itself…”*

-->Sounds really encouraging, and generous of him to say & share, he seems to be describing Hollywood as ultimately a worthy rewarding place...

_John Williams_ (at USC):
*"Don’t spend all of your life in films though, I think… I’ll say at the outset, that i think the art of music, is really threatened a bit by visuals and visual stimulations… As musicians, as I talked earlier about power, I think the more frequently we can bring strong composers, the more frequent appearance of really good scores will be, and they don’t get prominent, I think, fewer and fewer in the last decade or two or so…"*

-->Sounds like the ultimate deep musician's advice, the declaration of independance for the truest musician...

So with all that expressed…
And to bring back _Kenk_'s statement from another thread:
_*"For the record, I don't seek out work in film -- it sickens me for the very reasons stated by others. But I have done them and will do more-
but only when people seek me out for what it is that I do. Not for how well I can copy someone else's work. (or the generic flavor of the month) It's a rat race that doesn't interest me at all."*_

I do wonder... In which cases, would you, VI, [encourage or not] someone starting out to bite the Hollywood apple!
Do you feel Hollywood film scoring still has great things to offer regarding the future of music, or just in general for the next generations of people coming in, is working in Hollywood still worth it? 


Other messy questions you can choose from:
Has your opinion about Hollywood changed, good or bad? How collaborative do you feel Hollywood generally is right now?, Is originality more valued only until a certain stage in your career? What part does the artist really play in all this?, or how much do you feel talent and original(good?) ideas really matter in the result that we can hear today in film music soundtracks?

Would love to hear your contribution, if you have any time!
Thank you all for the help so very very much!
Best, 
Alexandre


----------



## dinerdog (Mar 12, 2015)

I won't speak to Hollywood scoring specifically, but I'd like to point anyone interested in to a brilliant book from former LA Times writer, Scott Timberg, on creativity in America:

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1209 ... estruction

It's a smart and eye opening observation on what's going on with creativity and the forces making it more difficult in times going forward. He's got an excellent blog here:

http://www.artsjournal.com/culturecrash/

It's a dark forecast (no way around that), bit I think it's important for us to keep our eyes open and be armed with all the information possible to address our own futures.


----------



## mverta (Mar 12, 2015)

Since you quoted at least part of my feelings on this stuff, I'll say this: If you want to do it, do it; nobody can define if it's worth it to you or not but you. But I'll also say if you don't want it so bad you can't imagine life without it, you'll probably lose to the people who do. Whether your effort is spent woodshedding and learning, or networking and schmoozing (ideally a balance of both) there's no getting around how much work it is, and the only thing that will sustain you through the long, arduous journey is force of will and desire for the dream. He who hesitates is lost.

This is also the important backbone of coming to accept that you and your career will have seasons; nobody stays on top forever. Nobody. Robin Williams just threw a belt over the door and checked out. Ultimately you have to think about what part of this life that you can actually control is crucial to you and protect that, because most of it isn't directly in your control. You can no more force the industry to love you than you can force a woman to love you; you have to make yourself lovable, and even then, it probably won't be 'til death do you part. I would think JNH and Hans would have many inspiring and positive things to say about the industry given their current point of perspective; and similarly, James Horner's position is no surprise either. But of course, they're all right: It's a wonderful, horrible, dead-end, flowering, joyous and miserable business, and an even more rewarding, soul-deadening life. Enjoy the ride; write about it!

_Mike


----------



## rJames (Mar 12, 2015)

I am surprised I do not find a notable quote from me in your OP /\~O but while I have to say, "go for it!" ...and you can quote me on that...

...you should be careful about statements like this


> Also, this will sound awesomely pretentious, but I believe I have, out of probably very personal events which happened to me in my past, developed a similar sensibility to compose & recognize a kind of story-telling-like music & melodies, as usually all the greats have in common, and to think about notes in a perfectionist, contemplative way because I want to give back to music and people exactly what music gave me and helped me with during those past times of mine as a child. When i write, practice, listen, I think about legacy, and contribution, hence i usually never want to miss the most meaningful set of notes I can find for myself and share with others...



Because of the 3000 rock bands in England during the 60's who felt that way about themselves, only the Beatles and a few others were correct in their self-evaluation.

No one here can tell you if you will be able to make a living scoring pictures much less if you will make an everlasting impact on film music.

For myself, I can say that I started too late in the business (50 yrs old) and I am more like a hermit than like a Hollywood party animal. But I make music that I like when I like. And I make a living. And I live in LA (well, actually in Orange County which is not Hollywood at all).

So, maybe start with a smaller goal if you want to make music for a career. If its only film music that you want to make then you probably should give yourself a specific goal towards the larger goal and see if you can make that goal by a certain age.

Ron

PS someone new IS going to change movie music forever (again) and make their mark on eternity.


----------



## Goran (Mar 12, 2015)

If of any help, I'll just point out to parts of quotations that strike me to be either very false or very true (disclaimer: I don't work in Hollywood (an occasional orchestration/sample-based orchestra production project contracted by LA based composers excepted)) 

*"Whatever horrible things you want to say about Hollywood - which are all true - you can't take away this idea that it's the last place on Earth that actually supports orchestral music”. (Hans Zimmer)*

The second half of this is false (the first one probably very true though)

*"You know, I’ve always believed that if someone is truly gifted, he/she’ll rise at the top, and get noticed” (John Newton Howard)*

This isn't true either, except if we are willing to take long time periods into account (long as in possibly hundreds of years in some cases). There certainly were (and probably still are) plenty of mavericks in the "career" sense out there, who make 1st class music but won't "rise" in this sense, whether during ther lifetime or for a long time afterwards (and possibly never). 

*"Don’t spend all of your life in films though, I think… I’ll say at the outset, that i think the art of music, is really threatened a bit by visuals and visual stimulations… As musicians, as I talked earlier about power, I think the more frequently we can bring strong composers, the more frequent appearance of really good scores will be, and they don’t get prominent, I think, fewer and fewer in the last decade or two or so…" (John Williams)*

Very, very true. Film scoring today is (imo) getting progressively worse (compared to the standards of, let's say, 30 years ago) and accepted views on what is or can be effective film music are increasingly narrower and (in the worst possible sense) "normative" (in the "commercial" segment at least)


----------



## AlexandreSafi (Mar 13, 2015)

Gentlemen!
You are all so kind! 
Thank you so so much!
This is all great food for thought! Quite frankly I felt really naked just pouring out like this, but i knew i had to do this and i always found this VI place to be the right one! And so here you are all, truly amazing balanced replies to keep close sight of!

I feel i have nothing immediate to add, so
Thank You All again!
_Mike in particular :!:

Best,
Alexandre


----------



## JohnG (Mar 13, 2015)

Hi Alexandre,

If by "Hollywood," you mean major event movies, it seems to me that most of those are scored by about 20 people, world-wide. Maybe fewer than 20 if you mean, "most." 

The way I look at it, aspiring to that top echelon is a bit like saying you'll only be happy with a job in aerospace if you become an astronaut, or you'll only be happy in a business career if you can run one of the top 50 largest companies in the world. Except it's 100x worse, because if you fail at your business goal and become "only" a senior vice president at a large company, at least you make a lot of money so you can take care of your family, and don't usually have to look for a job constantly.

In the Big Film scoring arena, sometimes a new person comes up, catches a big movie, and hangs on, but it seems rare to me. At the bottom of the ladder in films, not only do many filmmakers want the composer to ape other people's work (so you're left with a reel that sounds like crappy versions of Big Name Composer X), but I've heard of proper, funded films budgeting as little as $2,000 for a full, 60-minute plus score. And the problem is, there are evidently a lot of people willing to do that. Kooky.

So, today, I'd look for advice and war stories to people doing interesting work in TV, instead of the top guys in theatrical film, for a number of reasons: 

First, artistically TV is where most of the interesting stuff is happening today, so if you actually have something unique and interesting to say, it appears there is some appetite for it.

Second, while still fiendishly competitive, the law of numbers mean it's a more attainable way to make a living today than hoping to be one of those top 20 guys on the big screen. 

Third, there still exists in TV a kind of "ladder" -- you can start with a lower budget TV show and work to bigger budget. By contrast, the theatrical film business has moved increasingly to very large budget movies, with one in a thousand of the medium budget or low budget movies making it to the big screen, making it hard to "work your way up." Besides, given the schedules, many TV shows employ extra composers, so you can get experience doing just a little here and there for someone established. Plus you can make a living in the mean time, which nobody can making $2,000 for 60 minutes of music.

Commercial work can be a way to make a living too.

There are problems with TV too -- hellish schedules, shrinking fees, the risk that PRO royalties will evaporate as everything moves to streaming. These are real issues. Also, careful about silos -- once you're labeled a "cartoon" guy or a "drama" guy or "1/2 hour sitcom" guy, it can be hard to change.


----------



## gsilbers (Mar 13, 2015)

I guess the idea is very romanticized. and the glamour and fame. 

there is an army of people that work in all aspects of a film. thousands of people. from the recording engineer to the guy who puts the audio on the tape (DI)master and sends it to the theatres. to the guys who markets the movie or movie posters to the truck driver who waits 12 hours on his truck for the scene of the day to end. 

the work for scoring film like the thread indicates only happens to a very few. most of it goes to remote control. its the preferred vendor for studios when looking for music for films. and that's all it is in Hollywood. which its not exactly Hollywood. almost no one works in Hollywood. its actually santa monica , Burbank, venice, century city and so on. but its a collection of different "vendors" at the end of the day. the composer statue definitely grew in the last 15 years as a star of almost pop magnitude. 

people who are into this idea of romanticized scores are a lot into orchestral music. which doesn't really happen anymore but a to a very low low percentage of works. 
with that said, I am into electronic music and productions so for me its amazing to listen to all this electronic and hybrid scores. love it!. 

so for those looking for that Hollywood dream, I d say that you are definitely NOT going to make it. odd are stack against you. but at the same time, there is a LOT of other things to do that are in the similar fields and you get to be creative and make music.


----------



## Tanuj Tiku (Mar 13, 2015)

Alexandre,
A few years ago, I was pondering over similar thoughts and 'wondered' about 'Hollywood'. 

Meanwhile, a few years passed and I kept working in Mumbai, writing additional music to many films and doing a few myself. 

In the process and by chatting with folks actually in Hollywood, it seems to me that its the same process everywhere. 

We have a lot of the same problems in Mumbai as there are in Hollywood. I agree that the idea of film scoring is highly romanticized. It is far from the truth. 

It is a ruthless business but then many other businesses are the same. You really cannot control destiny or how things will turn out. There is just no way to know!

The only thing you can do is write great music and find interesting ways to tell stories through music. Really collaborate with filmmakers and look out to score as many good films as you can. 

The rest of the stuff - you will just waste time thinking. If you are young, just go out there and give it a shot! 

Do a short trip, meet some people and see if it is something you want to be a part of. 

Remote Control Productions is not alone in the way they work. This practice has grown all over the world. Because, the process of making films and the film business structure has changed. 

Now, everyone wants to really take part in everything. Everybody has their ideas, assistant directors, producers, directors. It can get overwhelming but part of the job description is being a person who can lead, calm people down and take a beating now and then. What I mean by that is that people will say a lot of things, its upto you - how you evaluate what is being said, how you can convince them with the right ideas. 

It is a crazy business - its Showbiz after all! The humble clan of musicians can sometimes be at odds with this world but this is something you have to get OK with and still write great music. 

I am sure even Hans will tell you that working with Nolan is a different trip completely compared to some other directors.

But just for a moment, think about the process - somebody gets inspired and writes a script for a few years, pitches it to some people, they ask for changes and changes, it gets to the point where it is. A director is attached. They are forever pondering over who should play the parts. Actors have their tantrums or not..whatever....

Then there is financing a movie. Somebody is putting in a lot of money to make these films. They begin the process of filming and so many things happen in between all this that by the time they all arrive at scoring the film - they have been through an incredible journey. No film goes exactly according to plan. May be a few. 

We are one of the last people to get involved creatively and a lot of people are at their weakest moment. 

In between all this - you still have to write great music! 

I think of the main requirements of this job is how to mange impossible situations and stress. 

There is a reason so many people now work on film scores. They are there to support the ongoing changes and just the amount of work that goes in. It also keeps the composer in a more creative space by letting some other people take over certain tasks. 

But as John said, these are the $200 million films. Writing film music is not just about those films. 

If you get to do them - then fantastic! But, there are loads of other films out there. 

Eventually, if you are good, have a good attitude and can have some of the qualities people have mentioned then it will happen. But to what extent? - well that would be predicting the future!

Who knows!

You have to go head on though. This is not a place for the weak hearted 

Mike makes a very good point - They won't evaluate your talent just right away. That stuff is for later, if the music is great.

For now, they will only worry about these things:

1. Can you do the music? 
2. Can you deliver on time?
3. How much will you do it for?

And the person asking those questions will come from how and when you interface with people. 



Good luck!


Tanuj.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Mar 13, 2015)

15 years ago, I would have said"yes." Now I say "probably not." 

When I moved out to Los Angeles from Boston in 1972, there were opportunities to do good work and make some good money. Sure, it was not always about talent, but connections, credits, etc. but there was such a thing as "the middle class Hollywood composer."

That has virtually disappeared.So I would say only pursue this if you simply cannot picture yourself being happy doing anything else.


----------



## dinerdog (Mar 13, 2015)

And/If your significant other has a job with benefits.


----------



## bbunker (Mar 13, 2015)

If the only thing that you would consider success is working in major films, then DO NOT move to LA, because one thing you definitely need is the flexibility to be able to adapt, and to weather the difficult times without bending and breaking.

Then again, if you're not that bothered with working in major films, then DO NOT move to LA, since you need stubborn dedication and perseverance to keep on trucking to your goal when things aren't going the way you want them.

Then again, if you are flexible, then you DEFINITELY should move to LA, because there's just so much work in so many fields that whatever else you can do, from playing piano gigs to wedding work to orchestrating, you can find that here.

And, of course, if you stubbornly pursue working in film, then you DEFINITELY should move to LA, since there are always opportunities to get your stuff out there in the community.

So, DEFINITELY either DO or DO NOT move here. Glad to help.


----------



## Stephen Rees (Mar 13, 2015)

bbunker @ Fri Mar 13 said:


> So, DEFINITELY either DO or DO NOT move here. Glad to help.



I don't like either of these possibilities. Is there a third option?


----------



## passenger57 (Mar 13, 2015)

The idea of coming to LA to 'make it' as a film composer is not what it used to be. 

The market is now overflowing with tons of composers (many very talented) who are barely scraping by. I should know because I know alot of them personally and I try and give them work when I can. 

I moved out here in the mid 90s and already had a connection with a working composer. 
I became his assistant and went from there. After 15 years I eventually made a career as a composer. Yes alot of it was luck, but half of that was just putting myself out there. 

My best gigs are with directors who respect my work and I am friends with personally. I guess my best advice would be to seek our your 'soulmate' directors. They will be very loyal to you. And alot of them don't live in LA, but they fly out occasionally for industry purposes. 

All that said, it does help to live out here, but plan on being poor. For almost 15 years I never had more than a couple hundred or a thousand in the bank at any given time. I just never gave up.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Mar 13, 2015)

bbunker @ Fri Mar 13 said:


> that whatever else you can do, from playing piano gigs to wedding work to orchestrating, you can find that here.



But see, the problem is that is NOT very true anymore.

When I came I could get jobs with my own group or another 5-6 nights a week playing and singing and it did not make me rich, but I survived. Not true anymore, maybe 5 % of the clubs have live entertainment that pays anything.

Then I could become a staffwriter, as I was with Casablanca and Chappel-Intersong and get a weekly advance to write songs. Not true anymore unless you are a songwriter, or artist, or producer who has already established an audience.

Then i worked as a musical director for singers and played piano on jingles. Mostly all gone from LA,. I also did some weddings and bar mitzvahs etc. Mostly all gone to DJs.

Then I did a couple of TV series and "movies of the week" that did not make me rich but typically gave me a $30,000 budget, 15 k of which I would spend, 15 k of which I would keep.

And some low budget films which nowadays, would not seem like such a low music budget.

Never could get a lot of orchestration work, even though I am competent, don't know why maybe other guys were better, schmoozed better, etc.

Now of course thank god I developed technology skills so I can make money with EW, writing articles, doing private Logic Pro consulting, etc.

And all the while, I didn't work EVEN A SINGLE DAY doing non-music related work.

A young person coming to LA now with an identical skill set and versatility would have few or little of the opportunities I had. Now it is possible of course that you are MORE skilled, work even harder, better socializing, etc. and therefore will have more and higher level success more quickly than I did. ENTIRELY possible.

But i don't like your odds. So my final word of advice is only do this if you think to yourself "if I don't do this, I will die" because you will be competing with people who DO think that.


----------



## Leo Badinella (Mar 14, 2015)

mverta @ Thu Mar 12 said:


> I'll also say if you don't want it so bad you can't imagine life without it, you'll probably lose to the people who do.





Eastwest Lurker @ Fri Mar 13 said:


> do this if you think to yourself "if I don't do this, I will die" because you will be competing with people who DO think that.



I think this is the attitude you should have to do anything worthwhile. If it is your dream, your "true calling", then follow it with every drop of blood you have, otherwise you risk spending your life thinking about how you almost gave your dream a shot in Hollywood.

You will only know if the actual Hollywood fits your ideal after you get there.


----------



## AlexandreSafi (Mar 14, 2015)

*John, gsilbers, Tanuj, bbunker, rJames, Mike, Goran passenger57, & Jay*: All of your life experiences describing your thoughts, feelings & professional experiences about the Los Angeles scene is extremely appreciated, it's all saved on my computer for future use. *JohnG and Tanuj *(_"Namaste!"_), i have to say both of your additional knowledge is also really eye-opening for anyone making a decision based on right attitude, preparation, setting up expectations, where to go & what is the best Media for you to choose, so i'm really grateful...
-----

Now here are my general thoughts i feel like sharing with this community:

I would be lying If I said I’m one of those who would absolutely die if I couldn’t make my life about Hollywood within the next few years or decades, because as a human being, I believe this would just be a philosophical lie anyone would tell himself or herself. I could also write a whole diary as to exactly why I can live with that… I would also be lying if I said I’m one of those who wouldn’t die if he realized years or decades later he hadn’t really given his best in the majority of his composing work. I could write an even bigger diary as to exactly why I couldn’t really live with that. That’s how much I feel obliged not to compromise music, neither compromise music from my values, and to really honor the important & privileged role we musicians more & more forget to play in bringing beauty and truth in this world, this is and always will be my main path, whatever & wherever that translates in my future…
-----
I can see the great reasons for believing in an “industry”, I think they’re still very valid today. The biggest of mine being the great power of Cinematic storytelling, which in my book, isn’t going away anytime soon and absolutely still has so many beautiful things to offer. It’s just harder to find, so it can usually affect your belief in encountering great stories, that’s where your own preparation as a musician and networking apparently become important, which means it can come anytime, anywhere, from anyone…

But I really don’t believe in competing in general, at least the one we mean today, I won’t let my actions be driven by it, karma I guess. I believe in creativity, and helping out true people, and as stated I would personally make it about having faith that there will always exist amazing projects out there that I feel should deserve all the attention they need or that possibly somebody sees something in me I didn’t initially see and thinks we can share a vision, but that’s where luck, preparation & synchronicity comes in…
-----
The only single thing I feel okay competing with is really myself…
-----
But as a side note, I can’t really quite put my finger on it yet, maybe I’m thinking of the state of all the media industries we have, library music specifically would also come to mind, if I understand what its impact will be on the future, but I think we’ll sooner or later be evolving towards a model and a time where we’re eventually going to start seeing, at least specifically in the case of us musicians, a necessity to believe in Freedom & Power for the first time, that’s my hope at least… 
-----
My main concern right now is really about redefining the things we write about in our music! 
-----
Anyways I guess that kind of answers my case about the whole “Hollywood chase” at least, and so according to *Mike, Jay, gsilbers & bbunker*, and what the odds are, there’s a very good chance I’m already ruling myself out, so it seems…
----- 
My ultimate dream is passing on my gifts really, to inspire people of all age, to be part of a solution to the culture crisis which is happening (*dinerdog*, thanks a lot for your article), to honor your contributions through my contributions, and represent all of us musicians, especially the brave ones, as the great privileged community that we are and that the world not always knew it wanted, but always needed throughout times… We’ll see where it all takes me in my choices, actions, how people perceive me, and how the general perception of the musician evolves in time, one day at a time…
-----
I understand it well! This is simply about what one deeply wants, values and really stands for in a “no-written-rules” situation, like women (thanks for the analogy *Mike*!), which Hollywood, amongst other industries represents …
-----
Thank you all so so much helping me find peace on this current concern of mine of this past month! 
Not to go all Oprah, but scrolling through this thread shows I’m really lucky to be born in this time & touched to have you all to enrich me with a wider perspective, I truly mean it!

Anyways, as *Mike *also succinctly said, "it's about the ride, and you are part of it, and i just want to make sure it all goes into my music, our music..."

Best,
Alexandre


----------



## Sebastianmu (Mar 14, 2015)

Alexandre - 
since you are in Europe, why not try to dig into the european film business first? There are many, many films being made in Europe. On all levels from high brow to low brow, from very low budget to higher budgets, and even if you don't have any REALLY HIGH budgets (and no cgi-heavy comic book adaptations), there's certainly a lot of work for composers. And there are still a lot of films that can afford an orchestra (esp. given the reasonable rates). Geez, Tom Tykwer managed to have the Berlin philharmonics play the score for "The Perfume". 

I think this way - learning the craft on european productions - and then at some point also doing Hollywood films (or even: being asked to do them) seems to be not the worst way. 

Infact, if you look at a couple of very successful composers today, many came exactly this path: Hans Zimmer did, but so did this years Oscar winner Alexandre Desplat (who still lives in Paris) and the third nominee Jóhann Jóhannsson, who works from a little studio in Berlin. [edit:] I forgot the fourth nominee Gary Yershon, who of course is from the UK. 

So: One step at a time.


----------



## MichaelL (Mar 14, 2015)

Someone recently asked me a similar question about library music.
My response was, "there are easier ways to make money and better ways to make music." I suspect that the same can be said of film scoring in Hollywood.


----------



## AlexandreSafi (Mar 14, 2015)

*Sebastian & Michael*! Really, thank you both for adding your input, it means a lot!


----------



## AR (Mar 14, 2015)

As they stated above...
You can work from your home country. Of course living in Hollywood can be a plus. But if you don't have a good insider there you literally stand behind closed doors. I couldn't stand the smog and moved to a little village in the forest. As long as I have a 200mbit internet connection I stay intact. Plus I can make some noise.
-Being at premieres has advantages. They won't forget your face. Of course not living in a city like London, LA or Berlin does cost you everytime extra money to get there (ironically living there, will cost even more). But it's worth just rushing over the red carpet, even when photographers won't pay attention. if you shake hands with some old faces or producers they'll keep in mind "ouh wait a minute, he exists, too"
-Being able to phonecall your directors after a while and just saying Hi! is career saving.

I managed to get around and still working on Hollywood pictures. So A.Safi, don't give up. Switzerland makes good movies, too. And if not, France is very close. And they definitly do!

That's my 2 cents.


----------



## TravB (Mar 14, 2015)

Not trying to discourage anyone, but the high cost of living (especially real estate and/or time commuting) in and around Hollywood/LA must be a consideration.

I've tried living there twice, once from '87 - '93, and again from 2000 - 2006. I tried everywhere from The Valley, LA/Santa Monica... even long commutes from Orange County. 

I honestly don't know how most people can afford it.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 14, 2015)

I just reported a post on this thread by accident! Bloody touch-screen scrolling...


----------



## Greg (Mar 14, 2015)

I say just go for it. Even if you don't "make it," LA is a really cool and inspiring place to live. Plus you can meet so many interesting people here, I love it.

As for the people saying Hollywood is dead and there is no room to be creative or make great films and scores of the past.... I say you're fucking delusional, open your eyes. There are so many amazing films these days. Just because it's not Spielberg 2.0 doesn't mean the medium is on its way out.

There will be many setbacks and tribulations but your passion can carry you through the bullshit. If you don't have the passion, yes you will likely be crushed.


----------



## Stephen Rees (Mar 15, 2015)

I have no experience of living in LA so have nothing practical to offer in the way of advice. But your post and intentions, which are noble and inspiring if I may say Alexandre, made me want to say something encouraging to you. So I say….

Work on being the best composer you can be, and write such great music that Hollywood comes to you.


----------



## tokatila (Mar 15, 2015)

> You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. –Wayne Gretzky



And besides you WILL regret more "not trying" than "not succeeding". Trust me.


----------



## Tanuj Tiku (Mar 15, 2015)

Good to see you are in high spirits Alexandre! 

I think no matter what people say, you can't be too cautious about this stuff. Why would anyone want to do this? It is not the money, not the lifestyle...its just purely doing music for films and being a part of something you love. 

In this kind of a situation you can't have too many restrictive thoughts! 

Of course, don't break yourself in the process tough! 

Networking (I hate this corporate word!) is important. And there is nothing wrong with that. You just meet people and let them know what you are doing and that you want to work with them. 

Nobody is ever going to find out about your music if you just sit in one place. 

So yes, meeting people does work over a period of time. Then, its just word of mouth. 

I only ever met two people for work from my end in the last 8 years. Once when I was starting out and once a few years later when I wanted to switch direction. 

I got lucky, surely. But, it's not THAT difficult. 

Very much doable, I think! So many have done so and continue to do so. 

I cannot imagine a life without doing what I do. It is not just about LA. There are impossible situations and problems that arise in life no matter where you are and what you do. 

People say, may be in the past it worked not anymore. But then look at Junkie XL - He was there just 14 years ago. 

There are many other things you can do besides film music but if you have decided that you want to do this for the rest of your life - just go for it! 



Tanuj.


----------



## MichaelL (Mar 15, 2015)

Greg @ Sat Mar 14 said:


> There are so many amazing films these days.
> 
> There will be many setbacks and tribulations but your passion can carry you through the bullshit. If you don't have the passion, yes you will likely be crushed.




I would say the first part is pretty subjective. Yes, there are probably amazing films if you are in the right demographic audience. 

The second part is absolutely true. I would refine it even further and ask are you passionate about music in general, or are you passionate specifically about "film music?" 

You're young. If you're also single, have few responsibilities, are passionate about film music and willing to face the "tribulations," or as others have said, you'd "die if you didn't do this" ...go for it!


----------



## AlexandreSafi (Mar 15, 2015)

To all of you: _*AR, TravB, Greg, Stephen, "Mr.Happy", Michael, & Tanuj*_ (Thanks to you again in particular, my Indian stepfather would think exactly like the level-headed person that you are!)---your participations are all part of me now, so "thank you..."

--Happy, peaceful & successful life to you all!--
.A.S.


----------



## rgames (Mar 15, 2015)

I got two very good pieces of advice that turned me away from a career in music. Here's one that's appropriate to this thread:

If you're trying to rationalize a career in music, don't do it.

rgames

PS - here's some advice that will help you regardless of what you do: learn to condense your thoughts!


----------



## Nathan Allen Pinard (Mar 16, 2015)

To OP: No. That environment would eat me alive.

LA is a go-getter type place where everything is hyped by 300% than what it actually is (even payments you'll get)

I've only had a tiny taste doing one obscure Disney track (I did it via internet). Lots of things happened that just made me not really try to push for anything of the sort there.

Now if I were to do gaming music in LA, I would. But the whole Hollywood thing is a stretch and will never happen with me. The costs, the pressure, etc. I don't know if I can take it honestly.

EDIT: Also, I know people there. I know people that left LA because they had kids, and they didn't want their kids to be raised in LA.


----------



## Tanuj Tiku (Mar 16, 2015)

Alexandre,
Namaste! Once again, I would say that having a career in music never made sense to me. 

It still does not. Why do we do it? Why do we feel the need to write music? 

It is such a weird thing in a way. 

I studied in a very old and prestigious boarding school in India. The fort was built some 500 years ago. Taken over by the British during their rule and then passed on to Maharaja Madhav Rao Scindia. He made it into a school. 

It is now 118 years old. We celebrated the centenary while I was still in school in 1997. 

During the 5 years that I was there, many old boys would come to visit and cherish old memories. 

Every year, different bunch of old boys would come dating back many years and even recent pass outs. Over the 5 years, I never met a single old boy who said that the school was better today. 

They always said that the school was something else during their days and it lost something in the years now gone by. I left in the year 2000 and only returned 12 years later for a reunion. 

To my surprise, I found the school had changed a lot too (obviously) and I too felt it was better in our time. Though, I never used to understand this when I was still in school. Why do they not like the school as much anymore?

But the students in school today probably don't hate it as much. We always romanticise the past. 

You know, things like Bernard Hermann was great, that was true film music and its all gone down hill today. Bernard Hermann was not happy with Hollywood even then and I think a lot of people did not like him at the time either (not his music). I only know this from some documentaries and things I have read or heard from other people. Some of it is well documented and known. 

He faced problems with Hitchcock as well. 

That was then and here we are in 2015, talking the same thing. 

Some thing that has probably changed today for sure is that a lot more people want to write music for media. It has also come out of its mostly orchestral zone today and so we are seeing a lot of people from different backgrounds wanting to do it. It is no secret that this has always caused a personal problem for many people working in the industry. 

Didn't a lot of people think Danny Elfman never did write Batman himself. A lot of people say Hans does not do a lot of the music himself. 

I was working for a composer in Mumbai a few months back on a blockbuster movie. He has worked with A. R Rahman a few times. On one of his tours, he met a violinist who has worked a few times with Mr. Zimmer. And she apparently said that Hans is never really working, its all very weird and she does not enjoy it that much. 

But in reality, I know from experience that either:

A. She never did work with Mr. Zimmer
B. They never spoke about this
C. She only worked a few times and just evaluated the situation based on those instances

If Hans never wrote his own music, it would never sound like 'One' soundtrack. At this point, all this is very laughable. Both Danny Elfman and Hans Zimmer have delivered consistently over many, many years!

The music industry in Mumbai is also crazy, cut-throat, its very, very expensive to live here, people want to pay the least amount of money they possibly can, people bitch about others, deadlines are crazy, we work 7 days a week on films with a minimum of 14 hours. Nobody really seems to care about the music. But yet, it all works out in the end. There are horror stories, many of them were told to me when I was starting out. Many people come here, leave then come back again and then leave again. Some, stay back. 

There have been days when I have not stepped outside my house at all for many days at a stretch, just writing. 

Ultimately, I could not live with myself if I did not at least try. I did and it worked out. But perhaps, those who left will tell you a different story. 

But, minus the ass holes in the industry, the yes-men, the fake people, self-congratulatory groups, I love it! I always wanted to do this and now I am doing it. Nobody is your friend as such but you will find some people who will stay with you for much longer. I still have the other half of my life to live  But, I have made absolutely wonderful friends here. 

It was in that very school that I was humming the tune to Superman by John Williams nearly everyday, scoring imaginary situations as I walked, ran..whatever...while a lot of other kids were singing Michael Jackson songs. 

So, for me it has been clear from very early on. 

But.....film is not everything for sure. There is lots of other things you can do. But if you want to be a part of the next Batman in 15 years or something, I can bet you can't really do that on a high speed internet connection from your bedroom. 


Good luck!!!!


Tanuj.


PS: I have never been to LA and my thoughts are based on conversations from people who are there today or have been there in the past for some time at least. I am also mostly sharing my experiences from a different industry but I find many common threads between the two. Rest of it is just human nature and common sense...its pretty much the same to me


----------

