# Sample Modeling- The Saxophones vs The Sax Brothers for "raunchy" style?



## Steelkat (Mar 13, 2014)

Which one of these would be best for a really raunchy sax? I have heard some demos of The Sax Brothers doing pretty much what I'm looking for, but not so in the case of The Saxophones, at least that I can find.

Is one library more suited for this sort of thing than the other? The Saxophones has parameters for "overblow" and "squeak" that The Sax Brothers apparently does not, so this would lead me to believe that it might be the better choice (?)

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!


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## Rob (Mar 13, 2014)

Aren't those different names for the same library?


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## The Darris (Mar 13, 2014)

I know it is a gimmick library by Embertone's Sensual Sax is pretty damn raunchy.


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## rayinstirling (Mar 13, 2014)

Rob @ Thu Mar 13 said:


> Aren't those different names for the same library?


Well the sax brothers give more than growl if used at less than 88.2kHz 
Or should that be less if less :lol:


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## Steelkat (Mar 13, 2014)

Rob @ Thu Mar 13 said:


> Aren't those different names for the same library?



It's my understanding that they are similar, but The Sax Brothers runs under Kontakt, and The Saxophones uses SWAM and has some additional control parameters. 

Something a bit fuzzy as well is that there is a Mrs. T (soprano sax) that was created as an additional instrument, maybe as an add on to the Sax Brothers (?)

Here's a short example of what I'm shooting for.

Thanks y'all!


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## Steelkat (Mar 13, 2014)

The Darris @ Thu Mar 13 said:


> I know it is a gimmick library by Embertone's Sensual Sax is pretty damn raunchy.



Yes I did check that out and for 20 bux it seems really nice. Just not sure it will get me all the way there in this particular case.

Thanks!


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## Steelkat (Mar 13, 2014)

rayinstirling @ Thu Mar 13 said:


> Rob @ Thu Mar 13 said:
> 
> 
> > Aren't those different names for the same library?
> ...



Ah ha, yes from the manual:

_Audio Interface Sample Rate: due to the unconventional sound engine of the Saxes, the
best sound quality is obtained by setting your audio interface to 88.2 kHz._

:lol:


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## Casiquire (Mar 13, 2014)

I thought that this was fixed and you no longer needed to run any of them at 88.2kHz? I could be wrong though.


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## Ginharbringer (Mar 13, 2014)

The Sax Brothers includes the Alto, Tenor and Bari saxes and is for Kontakt. http://www.samplemodeling.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=836&sid=1d4d198d969b3a8231d77e5031568dfa (On their forums), they have said that the only instrument that requires 88.2khz is the alto sax.

The Saxes package is the collection of the alto, tenor, bari and soprano saxes, all on the SWAM platform. The SWAM saxophones came out last year, which is much more recent that the kontakt based saxophones, they said that it wasn't really supposed to be an upgrade, but I dunno. Anyways, if I was buying them today I'd definitely get the SWAM saxophone collection because all else being equal, not having the switch to 88.2 is worth it. Can't say for sure if there is a difference between the two, I only own the Kontakt saxes!


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## rayinstirling (Mar 14, 2014)

From a couple or more years ago before SWAM which I now own but haven't done a comparison on the following mockup (We move on as there are always more important issues to deal with).
I created the cue at 44.1kHz but the sax sounded less than great so I recorded only the sax at 88.2kHz then converted the audio track to 44.1kHz where I did the mixing to stereo master.


Example of SM Tenor Sax Kontakt version


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## LHall (Mar 14, 2014)

I have both versions. The Kontakt version always gave me some problems such as distortions happening at various times.

The SWAM version is as close to perfect as I can imagine. Never a glitch on any of the instruments and I since it comes with several different versions of each instrument, putting a group together is no problem. 

I also recently got the TEC breath controller and SWAM works beautifully with it. 

Bottomline: Definitely get the SWAM version! Absolutely. Without hesitation.

now!

:D


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## Steelkat (Mar 14, 2014)

LHall @ Fri Mar 14 said:


> I have both versions. The Kontakt version always gave me some problems such as distortions happening at various times.
> 
> The SWAM version is as close to perfect as I can imagine. Never a glitch on any of the instruments and I since it comes with several different versions of each instrument, putting a group together is no problem.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much. I was hoping to hear from someone who had experience with both versions. I was leaning hard towards the SWAM version so this seals the deal for me!

Thanks to all!


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## Steelkat (Mar 14, 2014)

rayinstirling @ Fri Mar 14 said:


> From a couple or more years ago before SWAM which I now own but haven't done a comparison on the following mockup (We move on as there are always more important issues to deal with).
> I created the cue at 44.1kHz but the sax sounded less than great so I recorded only the sax at 88.2kHz then converted the audio track to 44.1kHz where I did the mixing to stereo master.
> 
> 
> Example of SM Tenor Sax Kontakt version



Wow that's so very well done! If I didn't know, I wouldn't know.... :wink:


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## rayinstirling (Mar 14, 2014)

Steelkat @ Fri Mar 14 said:


> Example of SM Tenor Sax Kontakt version



Wow that's so very well done! If I didn't know, I wouldn't know.... :wink:[/quote]

Thanks for that but listening to the Sonny Rollins track again perhaps I should try to do a better mockup with the SWAM sax. 
Cheers
Ray


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## reddognoyz (Mar 14, 2014)

LHall @ Fri Mar 14 said:


> I have both versions. The Kontakt version always gave me some problems such as distortions happening at various times.
> 
> The SWAM version is as close to perfect as I can imagine. Never a glitch on any of the instruments and I since it comes with several different versions of each instrument, putting a group together is no problem.
> 
> ...



plus one on the tec breath controller across the whole samplemodeling range. It's a whole different league.


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## rayinstirling (Mar 14, 2014)

reddognoyz @ Fri Mar 14 said:


> LHall @ Fri Mar 14 said:
> 
> 
> > I have both versions. The Kontakt version always gave me some problems such as distortions happening at various times.
> ...



Okay then, do us a favour and post a quick demo of your skill with it.


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## ch4rles (Mar 15, 2014)

reddognoyz @ Fri Mar 14 said:


> plus one on the tec breath controller across the whole samplemodeling range. It's a whole different league.



Agreed, definitely!


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## Mr. Anxiety (Mar 16, 2014)

Steelcat,

Make sure you follow up with us regarding your purchase and use of the SM saxes. Will be curious to hear your thoughts putting this in action. Check out how CPU performance is using multiple instances as well.

Best of luck!

Mr A


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## Steelkat (Aug 4, 2014)

If anyone is still interested here is what I ended up with using the SM tenor sax from "The Saxophones":

https://app.box.com/s/eaydvj91q2x0fxqox2sn

I used the SM bari in the same song as part of a section doing rhythmic stabs, so I had two instances running, along with some trumpets from Session Horns, and a couple instances of the Production Grand piano. CPU usage was moderate I would say, with some occasional spiking, but I was running a pretty intensive mix. But all in all manageable.


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## reddognoyz (Aug 4, 2014)

LHall @ Fri Mar 14 said:


> I have both versions. The Kontakt version always gave me some problems such as distortions happening at various times.
> 
> The SWAM version is as close to perfect as I can imagine. Never a glitch on any of the instruments and I since it comes with several different versions of each instrument, putting a group together is no problem.
> 
> ...



A big plus one on that! If you get any of the sample modeling instruments you HAVE to get a breath controller. I think it's actually a law in Nevada. (no seriously, it's amazing, it's very very expressive and you can really get some raunch cooking with it)


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## KEnK (Aug 5, 2014)

rayinstirling @ Fri Mar 14 said:


> From a couple or more years ago...
> Example of SM Tenor Sax Kontakt version


I missed this thread back in March.
Absolutely amazing!

And I listened to
"Meditation Snippet using Garritan Stradivari"

Also incredible realism.
I'll be perusing your soundcloud page
for inspiration and to see what's possible.

I love SM horns and don't need any convincing-
but this is a whole 'nother level!

k


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## rayinstirling (Aug 6, 2014)

KEnK @ Tue Aug 05 said:


> rayinstirling @ Fri Mar 14 said:
> 
> 
> > From a couple or more years ago...
> ...



Thank you k

I spend a lot of hours trying to make these things sound musical but I'm never truly satisfied. If I had to create virtual instrument music for a living I would have to change my ways or starve. o[]) 

Ray


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## FriFlo (Aug 6, 2014)

I am still mad at sample modeling for not giving an upgrade path of all the sax brothers and the soprano sax to pervious owners. This is the only product I didn't buy from them, just for he principle. They were not getting tired of mentioning, it was a new product, but to me that is just a lame argument! It is the same samples, applying the same techniques and adding upon them on a new platform and the older product surely won't get the improvements there other Kontakt based products do. They still have it in store, but I cannot imagine anyone buying these. IMO the option is only there, to prove their point of view.
I sincerely hope, at some point they will see the view of those customers, providing an upgrade path based on loyality to their products. That was about the only thing done by sm to piss me off, but they really managed to do so quite well!


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## eidrahmusic (Aug 6, 2014)

I think it's funny that when you talk about Shreddage, loads of folk just say "buy a guitar and learn it", yet, in this post, buying SM's saxophones and a breath controller, you'd be getting a decent beginners sax for the same price!

Anyway, I play sax, but I missed this post. If anyone wants me to play around on any tracks they've got, feel free to send them my way!


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