# Eareckon Eareverb 2 is coming soon



## paulmatthew (Nov 17, 2015)

I know we all probably have our fair share of reverb vsts but I came across Eareckon's new Eareverb 2 (soon to be released) and it looks like a treasure trove of reverb options in one vst. The biggest one is spacial placement of sounds ! I just thought I'd pass this on as it may be an affordable reverb option for composers and sound designers alike . I haven't seen any mention of it on vi yet so I thought I would share. Info about it can be found here http://www.eareckon.com/en/products/eareverb2-reverb-plug-in.html


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## lucor (Nov 17, 2015)

That looks very interesting, especially the positioning mode. Would be nice to have a good alternative to SPAT, which isn't as exorbitantly expensive. Thanks for sharing!


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## DynamicK (Nov 18, 2015)

Thanks for the heads-up Paul. Never heard of this reverb before...could be useful.


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## mc_deli (Dec 8, 2015)

Bump this... user experiences... one instance on each instrument... how heavy... ...only for ERs... or... ???


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## tack (Dec 8, 2015)

mc_deli said:


> Bump this... user experiences... one instance on each instrument... how heavy... ...only for ERs... or... ???


Have you read this thread?


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## mc_deli (Dec 8, 2015)

tack said:


> Have you read this thread?


I have seen that thread. Wrong forum innit!

You don't state what machine you are using, if you are using ER2 on how many instruments etc... can you fill in more blanks?


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## tack (Dec 8, 2015)

mc_deli said:


> I have seen that thread. Wrong forum innit!


Wrong forum?



mc_deli said:


> You don't state what machine you are using, if you are using ER2 on how many instruments etc... can you fill in more blanks?


Fair point. I was mainly comparing the load with VSS2, so it was the relative difference I wanted to communicate. I'm using an i7 6700k clocked at 4.5GHz, 32GB RAM, Windows 7 x64. DAW is Reaper 5.1 and ASIO buffers are 512 samples (on an RME Babyface).

I haven't fully redone my template yet with EAReverb2. So it's a bit of a WIP. I am putting dedicated instances on all my dry solo instruments, of which I have about 20. I don't anticipate any problems at all with CPU, because my previous tests were with many instances all on the same track which was armed for recording, which is basically a torture test for realtime performance.

In practice, the instances will be distributed across multiple tracks and only one will be armed for recording at any given moment, so Reaper will be able to distribute the load across multiple cores and the impact to RT performance is quite manageable. YMMV with other DAWs that lack anticipative FX.

I decided to go this route initially, as opposed to disabling LR on each instrument track and using a send for tails because, right now at least, although you can disable LR acoustically, you still pay the CPU hit for it. Also, with a separate send for tails, you would lose the ability to tune the ER leak -- which is a minor sonic benefit.

As I said, it's a WIP, so may yet decide to do a separate send for tails if e.g. I have any problems with phasing. I'll follow up when I get things fully set up and get a complete picture. (Other work has me distracted.)


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## mc_deli (Dec 8, 2015)

tack said:


> As I said, it's a WIP, so may yet decide to do a separate send for tails if e.g. I have any problems with phasing. I'll follow up when I get things fully set up and get a complete picture. (Other work has me distracted.)


Would be very interesting, especially results with the LR and if the tail can compete


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## muk (Dec 9, 2015)

After having spent not enough time yet with the demos, I find that the results I get are a bit sibilant and sound metallic. That's with the natural presets, that is. Anybody else found this? Any quick adjustments to shape it towards smoother, less obtrusive sound? I'm looking for open sounding scoring stage/concert hall ERs mainly.


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## tack (Dec 9, 2015)

muk said:


> Any quick adjustments to shape it towards smoother, less obtrusive sound? I'm looking for open sounding scoring stage/concert hall ERs mainly


Yes, some settings can sound harsh. Did you try the Auditorium LR with Bright off, and the position (below the Bright button) pulled all the way to the bottom? I also dial down the HF cut on the LR, and increase the Absorb a bit on the ERs.

Also make sure the post-mod depth is 0dB or else you'll get an unnatural warbling effect.


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## Polarity (Dec 9, 2015)

mc_deli said:


> I have seen that thread. Wrong forum innit!


oops, my fault for the wrong section, sorry.

I have tried it a bit with LASS Lite and I really enjoyed how easily the orchestral Position environment makes the different strings sections sound compared to fixed early reflection impulses I used till now.
Have to spend some more time with "normal" reverb algorhythms on other instruments...
maybe piano and acoustic guitar and some synth lead...
uh what? ok, who said Blade Runner main titles lead on Diva? 
let's see how it behaves with "Vangelis sound" test.


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## muk (Dec 9, 2015)

Thank you tack, I will experiment with the settings you suggested.


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## mc_deli (Dec 9, 2015)

tack said:


> Yes...



- I am trying the demo. Bit confused as usual In the presets there is "auditorium" then "use the POS panel". Is that just a reminder to use the POS panel, or is that the preset designed for the POS panel?
- When creating multiple instances of Eareverb, the following instances show "custom" as the preset - how are the multiple instances supposed to work - surely all instances should be set to the same preset e.g. auditorium?


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## tack (Dec 10, 2015)

mc_deli said:


> In the presets there is "auditorium" then "use the POS panel". Is that just a reminder to use the POS panel, or is that the preset designed for the POS panel?


It's independent. The auditorium preset is a specific ER and LR algorithm. POS mode is just one of three possible views that let you tweak the settings. Everything done in SE mode or POS mode could be done in PRO mode if you want. Given that, I admit I'm not quite sure why it says "use the POS panel" except as a hint that it's a convenient way to do placement. Unless by "POS panel" it actually refers to the distance control that appears between the decay and damp dials, not the global POS mode.



mc_deli said:


> - When creating multiple instances of Eareverb, the following instances show "custom" as the preset - how are the multiple instances supposed to work - surely all instances should be set to the same preset e.g. auditorium?


Not necessarily. I guess the simple and unhelpful answer is "do what sounds right" 

I've created a user preset (based on the auditorium preset), but so far for each instrument I have been making further customizations, based on the instrument. For example, with SM trumpets I have LR Direct In dialed down a bit compared to horns.  I also find myself tweaking ER Pan, usually in the other direction of the overall mix pan, to create a wider sense of space, which matched better some orchestral reference tracks I was comparing with.

I've also started editing the ERs themselves. For example, if I remember correctly (I'm not near my DAW), it was on SM trumpets that I tweaked the level and timing of the left wall reflections because I noticed they made the trumpet sound much harsher at forte. It was a more subtle and surgical effect than increasing the ER absorb level.

Lots of cool tweakability with EAReverb2.


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## mc_deli (Dec 10, 2015)

I got a reply from the lovely people at EARRR so here you go for our mutual benefit:

- Do I select the same preset for each instance?
For consistent results it sounds efficient to use the same preset for each instance.
e.g. you can create a user preset in one instance, add it to the library and it should be instantly available from other instances (instances can “talk” to each other’s as far as the same format is used in the context of a session).

- What is "use the POS panel" - is it a reminder, or is it the patch you are supposed to use with the POS panel?
This is just the name of a preset that has been created with the POS mode in mind, nothing more.
Otherwise, the POS mode can be used with any preset but users are of course encouraged to fine tune the POS panel settings so they suit their needs.

- What is "custom" - when I open a new instance, the preset defaults to "custom" - am I supposed to use this or change it to the preset I want to use for all instances?
”Custom” means that the current settings do not match a known preset. This mention usually appears when loading a project that features EAReverb 2 which has been set/tuned by a user who did not save his settings as a preset before saving the DAW project.
“Custom” can also appear if a new instance of EAReverb 2 is created by copying/pasting another instance (as far as the user modified a parameter), for example.

- When I move the node in the POS view, why do no parameters move?
Knobs on the POS panel do not represent the state of target parameters.
These knobs can be used to define how target parameters will be affected by the position of the big point.
For example:







The damp parameter will be set to 8.36% if the point is located on bottom.

It will be set to 32.9% if the point is located on top of the panel.

By moving the point from bottom to top, the damp parameter will then progressively evolve from 8.36% to 32.9%.


You can also disable the POS option for some parameters by clicking on the blue/grey labels:




Here (blue label), ER Diffusion will be affected by changes in the POS panel.





Here (gray label), it will not be affected.


PAN and WET targets cannot be disabled (that said, you can set a same value as Min and Max to get a fixed value if needed).

---

 Edit:sorry if the images do not show.


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## paulmatthew (Dec 10, 2015)

This video might help to setup separate early reflections and reverb tails.


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## muk (Dec 10, 2015)

Good one tack. Your suggested settings are a much better starting point than anything I had tried so far.


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## mc_deli (Dec 10, 2015)

Hmm - I am getting into this - now I am thinking about making buses within the VEPro mixer - so that I can have just one instance of ERr2 for 2x Berlin flutes, and one for 2x solo FH and 1x ens FH. By doing that I could get down to maybe 17 instances. Any thoughts on how to set ERr2 with VEPro?


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## jneebz (Dec 10, 2015)

paulmatthew said:


> This video might help to setup separate early reflections and reverb tails.



Thank you very much of this video link Paul!


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## mc_deli (Dec 10, 2015)

(With that video - I never did get why he is not sending 100% to the ERs but that's another story. This thread was about using ERReverb2, which has a positioning/map feature so you don't have to use three separate ER verbs. I.e. not do what's in the video It's all good though - I used that vid to try that technique but it is complicated... isn't it all...)


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## phil_wc (Dec 10, 2015)

I purchased and use EaR2 as my main ER now. And use Valhalla Room as LR because I like ValhR sound. I don't rely on preset, I did my own preset of both EaR2 and Valh by searching on google about reverberation. I spent all day.

EaR2 audithorium preset is made for put instance directly in instrument track. So I have to tweak because I'll use it in a bus track and can use POS panel. LR is sound a little metallic for me, I don't use it. But ER is great and flexible.


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## tack (Dec 10, 2015)

A word of caution about ValhallaRoom: if, like me, you thought to dial Early Send back to 0 ("I don't want ERs, I have something else for that!") then you may be surprised at what terrible things this does to the sound when you have something with sharp attacks going through it.

I noticed this when listening to a xylophone 100% wet from my verb bus, which had an instance of ValhallaRoom for tails. I could try to describe it, but here's a video instead:



So I think the moral of the story is if you use ValhallaRoom, pay close attention to Early Send, because it probably doesn't do what you think it does. VR isn't like other reverbs that simulate early reflections. Instead they call it "early energy" and it doesn't seem to be terribly well equipped to do without it completely.

FWIW, I have since switched to ValhallaPlate. I'm for now happy with LRs from EAReverb2, and I just wanted an unobtrusive, smooth reverb as a subtle layer for glue purposes. ValhallaPlate is fitting this bill perfectly.


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## phil_wc (Dec 10, 2015)

@tack Thanks to let me know! But I don't have that problem. I tested with white noise, mallet.

Ok, this is what I set for early. It's really smooth to me.

My routing is..

inst. --Bus-> EaR2 -> Stereo out
------------- EaR2 --Bus-> Valh R ---> Stereo Out


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## tack (Dec 10, 2015)

phil_wc said:


> Ok, this is what I set for early. It's really smooth to me.



I tried those settings and I still find the sound offensive on instruments with very sharp attacks (like xylophone and glock).

But if your ears are happy, that's what counts. I just wanted to draw it to people's attention because I found it quite surprising.


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## phil_wc (Dec 10, 2015)

tack said:


> But if your ears are happy, that's what counts. I just wanted to draw it to people's attention because I found it quite surprising.



Have you try only sent ER --> LR and don't send an instrument direct to LR. I do that and it's no problem.


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## tack (Dec 10, 2015)

phil_wc said:


> Have you try only sent ER --> LR and don't send an instrument direct to LR. I do that and it's no problem.


Ok, interesting if you're not hearing anything like this. Something else wrong with my signal chain maybe? I'll try to reproduce it on a fresh project outside of my orchestral template. Thanks for your input!


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## phil_wc (Dec 10, 2015)

This is what I understand about reverb. I'm not sure if someone can confirm this.
What we hear in reverberation. 

Source ----> Ears
Source --> ER --> Ears
Source --> ER --> LR --> Ears
But not Source --x-> LR --x-> Ears


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## tack (Dec 10, 2015)

I confirmed the untoward clicky artifacting in ValhallaRoom with Early Send at 0 from a fresh project, including a completely dry VSL xylophone passed through EAReverb2 for ERs. (Not that I'd have expected any difference from the Spitfire example in my other video -- the only difference whether the ERs are baked into the sample or generated by a reverb plugin -- but just to say I tried it.)

Anyway, I really think this is just how ValhallaRoom works. Again I should stress this kind of artifact is only really apparent to me during harsh percussive attacks. ValhallaPlate is silky smooth, in contrast.


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## phil_wc (Dec 10, 2015)

@tack ok I see what you did. You didn't do the mix wet/dry at 100% EaR2. So it still has direct source leak into LR.


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## tack (Dec 10, 2015)

phil_wc said:


> @tack ok I see what you did. You didn't do the mix wet/dry at 100% EaR2. So it still has direct source leak into LR.


That doesn't seem to matter for the ValhallaRoom phenomenon I was trying to show. The characteristic is present even at 100% wet. To my ears, 100% is even worse because the ERs sent to ValhallaRoom are far more present, which exacerbates the artifact I'm trying to avoid.

It's certainly the case that some reverb modes are worse than others. The one you use, Large Room, is much better than e.g. Dark Room in this regard. But even then there is a sort of pinging effect that I find unsatisfying.

Here's one more video showing 100% wet from EAReverb2, sending to ValhallaRoom (using your settings as I could see them) with Early Send 0, 1, and then using EAReverb2's LRs. I spent a few seconds trying to tame a bit of the harshness (and ending up with a similar high cut frequency that you're using). The result needs more tuning (and I have done), but that's what I ended up after a bit of live fiddling on the video. Terribly sorry about my obnoxious playing. 



In the end my ears are much happier with EAReverb2's Auditorium LR after some tweaking, as compared with ValhallaRoom.

Though ValhallaPlate is doing a very fine job as well, especially if I'm going for a mellower reverb. In a sense, ValhallaRoom is far cleverer than we need, given that something else upstream is taking care of room simulation. All we are looking for is pleasing tails.


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## Lassi Tani (Dec 11, 2015)

Hi just a dummy question: How would you use EAReverb2 together with Spaces? ER from EAReverb2 (to inserts and disable LR) and LR from Spaces (with sends)?


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## phil_wc (Dec 11, 2015)

@tack I set the early size to 1. I saw your early size still 52 and that will exaggerate the room sound.

But anyway, do what you like for the sound. I don't have VPlate so I can't compare.


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## tack (Dec 11, 2015)

sekkosiki said:


> Hi just a dummy question: How would you use EAReverb2 together with Spaces? ER from EAReverb2 (to inserts and disable LR) and LR from Spaces (with sends)?


If Spaces lets you disable ERs I don't see why not.


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## Lassi Tani (Dec 11, 2015)

tack said:


> If Spaces lets you disable ERs I don't see why not.



Thanks! I disabled LR in EAReverb2 and used the orchestral positionings + had Spaces in send (I didn't disable ER). The reverb I got was more front sounding. Then I enabled LR in EAReverb2 and had same orchestral positionings + had Spaces still in send, but decreased the send amount. The resulting reverb was much more natural to my ears and gave me an impression of a orchestral hall. Hmm.. still have to experience with different setups.


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## mc_deli (Dec 12, 2015)

sekkosiki said:


> Hi just a dummy question: How would you use EAReverb2 together with Spaces? ER from EAReverb2 (to inserts and disable LR) and LR from Spaces (with sends)?


By disable LR in EAReverb, do you mean turning the "ER input" value to zero - or is there a way to disable the whole LR engine?

EDIT: I have very uncool behaviour having just paid to leave demo mode. ER2 is crashing Logic or VEPro whenever I save/update a preset :(


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## Lassi Tani (Dec 12, 2015)

I haven't found a way to disable the whole LR engine. I'm just turning the knobs down. But, mixture of EAReverb and Spaces sounds cool


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## tack (Dec 12, 2015)

sekkosiki said:


> I haven't found a way to disable the whole LR engine. I'm just turning the knobs down.


Right. Although turning ER leak and LR Direct In to -inf does disable LR acoustically, it still does the CPU work to compute the tails. I emailed the author about this and he was receptive to adding a means to completely disable the LR module (and hopefully ER too, separately). In the meantime, until there's an update, use the 1>2 Plate algorithm as it's the cheapest, and set your decay time as low as it will go.


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## Polarity (Dec 12, 2015)

So EAReverb2 and Vahalla Plate (I didn't check it out yet) is a very good couple for orchestral instruments?


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## tack (Dec 12, 2015)

Polarity said:


> So EAReverb2 and Vahalla Plate (I didn't check it out yet) is a very good couple for orchestral instruments?


I am not unhappy with EAReverb2's LRs. So I'm using them for my dry instruments. And I have everything (even wet libraries) go through a small amount of ValhallaPlate for an overall glue. But yes I think if you wanted to use ValhallaPlate exclusively for LRs across the board I think it would have a good effect. But I've only tried that in solo instrument contexts so far.


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## mc_deli (Dec 12, 2015)

Polarity said:


> So EAReverb2 and Vahalla Plate (I didn't check it out yet) is a very good couple for orchestral instruments?


For tail (I can't believe I keep getting away with that - titter) Valhalla Room (or Plate as above), Altiverb (and the famous ToddAO impulse), Lexicon Hall (random hall, dark hall etc.) or Spaces are often quoted.
I am trying with the Lexicon.
I am interested if Spaces lets you switch off ERs and just use the tail...? EDIT: no it doesn't but plenty of users of e.g. VSS + Spaces on these boards with "double ERs" and good sounds

_searching since 1995 so you don't have to_


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## Polarity (Dec 12, 2015)

Thanks to both. 
Well, the EAReverb2 POS ERs algorythm could be useful to use with LASS Lite sections, i.e. the only dry orchestral instruments I have now... beside, perhaps, still considering some StormDrum2 instrument.
All the others are wetted.
Till now for ERsm tails and reverb in general I still used the old WizooVerb (that has IR's and algorythms), but it's 32bit only and has the behave of muting the ER impulse when I load old Cubase projects.
For Lexicon kind of halls I'd rely on Vahalla VintageVerb.
For the glue effect, 'cause I'm working with Pulsar2-Scope cards mixer environment, I've always used it's Masterverb PRO plugin...also because it can effect the hardware synths too when needed.
Now I'm not sure if go with getting VPlate too, have to check the demo, having already all the others.
Sure I'm positively impressed by the POS Auditorium ERs of EAReverb2.
I did the other day that "Vangelis huge reverb" compare test but, for now, I believe that VintageVerb has the best sound.


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## tack (Mar 18, 2016)

Sorry for a bit of thread necromancy, but I thought I'd let people know that somewhere between then and now, EAReverb 2.0.1 was released which provides fixes for some crackling I reported initially, but more importantly allows you to completely disable the ER and LR modules separately.

So for those who want to use EAReverb2 for room simulation but send to another common reverb for tails, you can now disable late reverb which appreciably improves CPU consumption for this use-case.


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## Reactor.UK (Mar 18, 2016)

tack said:


> Sorry for a bit of thread necromancy, but I thought I'd let people know that somewhere between then and now, EAReverb 2.0.1 was released which provides fixes for some crackling I reported initially, but more importantly allows you to completely disable the ER and LR modules separately.
> 
> So for those who want to use EAReverb2 for room simulation but send to another common reverb for tails, you can now disable late reverb which appreciably improves CPU consumption for this use-case.


Much appreciated.


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## mc_deli (Mar 18, 2016)

Rejoice!
They said they would (add the on/off etc.) and they have - albeit by stealth - but now we know!


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## Hannes_F (Mar 18, 2016)

Yes, cool thing you can disable the whole tail section now (and also the ER section if you want to).


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## ZeeCount (Mar 18, 2016)

tack said:


> Sorry for a bit of thread necromancy, but I thought I'd let people know that somewhere between then and now, EAReverb 2.0.1 was released which provides fixes for some crackling I reported initially, but more importantly allows you to completely disable the ER and LR modules separately.
> 
> So for those who want to use EAReverb2 for room simulation but send to another common reverb for tails, you can now disable late reverb which appreciably improves CPU consumption for this use-case.



They've also added the ability to bypass the vst3 version of the plugin:

http://www.eareckon.com/docs/EAReverb2-VH.pdf

That's the full changelog.


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