# Is 16GB Enough for a typical Media Composer?



## Soundbed (Jun 19, 2021)

While I write in a handful of genres / styles, most of my music on TV is in the form of "action cues" signed to libraries for reality shows like MTV Challenge.

My 2018 Intel MBP 16" i9 is in the shop due to a swollen battery. So I brought home an M1 with 16GB RAM to see if it could work for me.

Can I use this M1 to do most of my work?

Day 3 of setting it up and trying it out...


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## José Herring (Jun 19, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> While I write in a handful of genres / styles, most of my music on TV is in the form of "action cues" signed to libraries for reality shows like MTV Challenge.
> 
> My 2018 Intel MBP 16" i9 is in the shop due to a swollen battery. So I brought home an M1 with 16GB RAM to see if it could work for me.
> 
> ...



Looks like it can handle a lean setup just fine. 

Now I'm interested.


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## Soundbed (Jun 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Looks like it can handle a lean setup just fine.
> 
> Now I'm interested.


I’ll push it harder tomorrow…


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## hlecedre (Jun 20, 2021)

Hi Soundbed--

Not sure what's considered typical but I can speak for myself and my setup. For in studio composing, I use a 12 Core Intel Xeon with 64 GB RAM. For live stage performances, I use a Lenovo Thinkpad P50 with Intel i7-6700HQ with 64 GB RAM and a Lynx Hilo as my D/A converter. Both have worked well for my needs.


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## Soundbed (Jun 20, 2021)

Well I guess it's pretty easy to get audio crackling on an M1 when your project is taking more than 16GB and you're playing more than about 20 "modern" orchestral sample instruments. The tune I wrote for this (clicked in with a mouse late at night) sort of became my M1 "sad theme".


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## hlecedre (Jun 20, 2021)

You're using 25GB on a 16GB because your machine is using your pagefile as virtual RAM. Which means, the extra 9GB is coming from your hard drive. That's an indicator that you need more RAM given all the VI's you are using. Hope that helps.


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## Soundbed (Jun 20, 2021)

hlecedre said:


> You're using 25GB on a 16GB because your machine is using your pagefile as virtual RAM. Which means, the extra 9GB is coming from your hard drive. That's an indicator that you need more RAM given all the VI's you are using. Hope that helps.


Funny, I associate pagefile with Windows. Didn't know Macs had them too. *Googles* ah yes, the swap file / swapfile — that rings a bell.


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## darkogav (Jun 20, 2021)

Yes. *nix based system use swap partition. You generally dont want to hit it unless you absolutley have to. What happens if you set buffers to 1024 or 2048?


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## Soundbed (Jun 20, 2021)

darkogav said:


> Yes. *nix based system use swap partition. You generally dont want to hit it unless you absolutley have to. What happens if you set buffers to 1024 or 2048?


I can try more settings tomorrow. I was raising it because it started crackling.


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## holywilly (Jun 20, 2021)

Would you recommend M1 machine be part of the mobile rig? Or wait for the upcoming one with more ram capability?


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## Soundbed (Jun 20, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Would you recommend M1 machine be part of the mobile rig? Or wait for the upcoming one with more ram capability?


It depends on one’s circumstances but knowing what little I know about you; if you have a choice I think you’d be happier waiting.

If I had to buy all new today ... I’m not sure.

My pick right now (this evening) is I’ll stick with my 2018 MBP w/32GB RAM, a larger screen, more Thunderbolt bolts, waaay better internal speakers, and a lot of ‘known knowns’ vis-a-vis larger sessions — when it comes back from surgery. 

I bought that for mobile production and it (still) does the job pretty well.


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## holywilly (Jun 20, 2021)

I definitely want the mobile rig can do most of the task from my studio Mac Pro setup, which is able to run as many as VI’s. I’ll wait to see what Apple will offer later this year, amount of ram is the top priority. Thanks @Soundbed for putting up the test, I’m anticipating the Pro version of M chip from Apple.


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## colony nofi (Jun 21, 2021)

Yeah once you reach the ram limit on M1's, its not exactly smooth sailing for VI use.
However, our tests on an M1 mini (which we ended up purchasing for our studios - but for sound post, not composition) show that there are some things you can do to eek out more sample based workflow.

We were able to reduce pre-load buffers to extremely low levels - both using internal storage and external NVME thunderbolt drives. 

We had issues with Omnisphere (although I haven't tried in the last 4 months). Lately, beta's of U-He compiled for ARM have shown strong performance - the M1 showing me about 60% of the voices we get on our 2020 imac i-9 at the same buffer settings.


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## Soundbed (Jun 21, 2021)

colony nofi said:


> We were able to reduce pre-load buffers to extremely low levels - both using internal storage and external NVME thunderbolt drives.


That's exactly what I tried tonight.

I was able to get 96 orchestral instruments to play back using a 30GB swap file on the M1 16GB by lowering the preload size in Kontakt to 18kB. The Studio One memory in Activity Monitor was around 74GB and the segment played back flawlessly. Granted, after I made an edit I was having some stability issues but that doesn't mean they couldn't get resolved. So, interesting development!


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## colony nofi (Jun 21, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> That's exactly what I tried tonight.
> 
> I was able to get 96 orchestral instruments to play back using a 30GB swap file on the M1 16GB by lowering the preload size in Kontakt to 18kb. The Studio One memory in Activity Monitor was around 74GB and the segment played back flawlessly. Granted, after I made an edit I was having some stability issues but that doesn't mean they couldn't get resolved. So, interesting development!



Yeah - its pretty cool what one can do with that little machine. 

One would think that the next "level" of M based macs we will have a VERY capable machine for 90% of media comosers. This we will see in the higher spec'd / larger mac book pros, as well as 27" imac replacements will have a 64GB limit (possibly 128 but I actually doubt it after some chats to others who know a bunch more about the actual chip architecture...think something akin to 4 X M1's contained in a single package with some rather cool methods for splitting up the cores / memory handling etc) 

That 64GB may well be able to be pushed a decent amount further than say a standard 64GB PC machine - though one will have to do some serious testing before being happy with it if they have been using more than 64GB to date. Possibly even changing workflows... there will be tonnes who won't like it.

Finally, there will be a pro machine with much higher ram amounts. I have been reading some pretty WILD speculation on the behalf of those users who currently use max'ed out MP towers (VFX guys mostly) as to what to expect. Needless to say, although they dont have direct input to apple, Apple has certainly been listening to their requirements and there is no indication they will be left behind in no-mans land again as they have been in the past.

Its all exciting stuff.


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## darkogav (Jun 22, 2021)

Very interesting still. I need to check where that setting is in Kontakt.


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## GtrString (Jun 22, 2021)

The M1 chip seems awesome, however the 16ram limitation not so much. Hopefully there will come more options ahead..


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## darkogav (Jun 22, 2021)

I don't know how you can load large VIs and use them with swap space. Swap space is dirt slow. This is the old traditional way to setting up swap for applications. I have no idea how this maps and translates to DAWs and VIs. I would think it Vis just expects to get loaded into RAM.









How Much Swap Should You Use in Linux? - It's FOSS


How much should be the swap size? Should the swap be double of the RAM size or should it be half of the RAM size? Do I need swap at all if my system has got several GBs of RAM? Your questions answered in this detailed article.




itsfoss.com


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## Soundbed (Jun 23, 2021)

darkogav said:


> I don't know how you can load large VIs and use them with swap space. Swap space is dirt slow. This is the old traditional way to setting up swap for applications. I have no idea how this maps and translates to DAWs and VIs. I would think it Vis just expects to get loaded into RAM.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm not sure other than being smart enough to temporarily save only what's been used so far, rather than "every possible sample, at all times, available within nanoseconds"...

That said, (thinking while I type...) some potential uses might depend on the DAW, to some extent as well... 

Example: ProTools, as I recall, was building temp audio files for my MIDI instruments. So, if a temp audio file has been written it's only matter of access time to find it and then "stream" it (almost like it had been "frozen" or "bounced" or "rendered") ... that said I don't know that it was ever using the swap file for that per se. More likely the standard temp folder on the drive. And I suppose I could be mistaken or was understanding it incorrectly all those years. I think it definitely did something like that for time stretched / beat warped audio as well, so I think they added a feature for the MIDI audio to get rendered in the background at one point.

In any case swap could maybe potentially get used for a similar function, not that it's necessarily being used that way today.


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## aeliron (Jan 4, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> While I write in a handful of genres / styles, most of my music on TV is in the form of "action cues" signed to libraries for reality shows like MTV Challenge.
> 
> My 2018 Intel MBP 16" i9 is in the shop due to a swollen battery. So I brought home an M1 with 16GB RAM to see if it could work for me.
> 
> ...



Did you try selecting a non-record enabled audio track instead of an instrument track while playing? Makes a huge difference.


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## Soundbed (Jan 4, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Did you try selecting a non-record enabled audio track instead of an instrument track while playing? Makes a huge difference.


Hi.

The main thing that makes a difference I think is the "preload buffer" settings (they can be called different thing in different samplers).

~

That video is aging, and I made an update two days later, and Studio One had some releases since then I believe. But yeah, my testing also improved in the subsequent video in that series, where I made a number of other improvements as well ("day 5") ... in part due to getting some advice from others who saw the video and asked questions and gave advice etc.

*In the current Studio One 5 with my settings, it doesn't make a noticeable difference whether I'm on a record enabled track or not.*

Which DAW are you using where it makes a difference? Buffer settings? Low latency on or off?

Here's a follow up with some lessons learned.


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## 3CPU (Jan 4, 2022)

@ Soundbed,

I watched your video twice, thanks for posting! Your efforts, appreciated.

I think you answered yourself at least once, one example, you said... do you want to spend more time with audio or for other purposes regarding "Render Time?"

And, the "battery swelled up," is that with the new the M1 MBP?
I read elsewhere (on another forum) about battery issue, but this was with the M1 MB-Air.

For my intended purposes, I'm locked up in a maintenance closet with a large 43" 4K screen -- the M1 *Mac Mini* with 16GB is great for many musicians but unfortunately from what I have read and seen (many articles, videos) the M1 16GB memory falls short for my intended use. That is why I am hoping (if rumors are true) for a new upgraded Mac Mini release this year.

I am trying to be optimistic, the M1 leaps in the right direction but what is on offer right now isn't quite right for me (as explained above).

For the moment I already have a 10th Gen Intel desktop I built last year, it runs great but the build is specifically for other intended purposes. 

Edited in, I am composer, credited writer and producer! I began as a writer musician at a very young age, I have many years of experience both live on stage at popular venues, including radio, TV credits and yeah! It's been a wild ride.
.


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## Soundbed (Jan 4, 2022)

3CPU said:


> @ Soundbed,
> 
> I watched your video twice, thanks for posting! Your efforts, appreciated.
> 
> ...


My battery swell issue was on an Intel machine. It’s why I bought an M1 and did these early tests. 

Thanks for watching the videos, I’m glad they helped others a little. 

I returned the 16GB MBP, it wasn’t enough for me.

Yes a nice 64GB Mini is 2022 would be great. 

I also have some years of experience on stage as an actor and dancer, and writing and directing plays and new music theater. Wild indeed! Cheers.


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## 3CPU (Jan 5, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> My battery swell issue was on an Intel machine. It’s why I bought an M1 and did these early tests.
> 
> Thanks for watching the videos, I’m glad they helped others a little.
> 
> ...



I watched two other videos regarding the Max, 64GB and Kontakt test (posted on another thread)! I am somewhat disappointed, hopefully Kontakt will go native for Apple silicon and Monterey soon.

The 10-core is great and I could get by with that, but I don't think it is quite enough for Apple's higher-end models, especially the iMac and Mac Pro. "Competition is good," there should be uplifts in core performance for Apple's lineup this year.


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## rnb_2 (Jan 5, 2022)

Each iteration of the M1 gets a little bit faster in single core, but we'll have to wait for the M2 to see a sizable jump. That will debut in the new MacBook Air, likely in the first half of the year.

The 27" iMac/Pro (could go either way, or both) will probably have M1 Pro/Max in the Spring (likely accompanied by the Pro/Max high end Mac mini), but there are increased murmurings of a dual M1 Max for the high end 27" config, with dual/quad Max options in the Mac Pro by year's end. Expect M2 to gradually scale up over ~18 months, moving from MacBook Air to a redesigned low-end MacBook Pro, possibly the low-end Mac mini, 24" iMac, etc.


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## KEM (Jan 6, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Each iteration of the M1 gets a little bit faster in single core, but we'll have to wait for the M2 to see a sizable jump. That will debut in the new MacBook Air, likely in the first half of the year.
> 
> The 27" iMac/Pro (could go either way, or both) will probably have M1 Pro/Max in the Spring (likely accompanied by the Pro/Max high end Mac mini), but there are increased murmurings of a dual M1 Max for the high end 27" config, with dual/quad Max options in the Mac Pro by year's end. Expect M2 to gradually scale up over ~18 months, moving from MacBook Air to a redesigned low-end MacBook Pro, possibly the low-end Mac mini, 24" iMac, etc.



Do you think the Mac Pro will really happen this year? I’ve watched a few videos on it and at the rumored price/specs it sounds like an absolute no-brainer of a purchase


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## river angler (Jan 6, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Did you try selecting a non-record enabled audio track instead of an instrument track while playing? Makes a huge difference.


This really is one thing that I also find really does work on my mid 2012 MBP with 16gb RAM along with having no other programs running apart from Logic. As you may have seen from my posts on other threads I can run up to about 70/80 live VST instances of Chris Hein orchestral instruments without needing to use freeze no problem regardless wether I'm playing back, editing or dubbing.


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## Flyo (Jan 6, 2022)

So clearly a new M1 Pro 14’ with 16Ram don’t will open large medium large sessions with Vsts? Besides swap function and buffer sizes?


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## aeliron (Jan 6, 2022)

river angler said:


> This really is one thing that I also find really does work on my mid 2012 MBP with 16gb RAM along with having no other programs running apart from Logic. As you may have seen from my posts on other threads I can run up to about 70/80 live VST instances of Chris Hein orchestral instruments without needing to use freeze no problem regardless wether I'm playing back, editing or dubbing.


Yeah, it's just annoying that it's the same case with the M1's. Wish there was a shortcut to disable this CPU behavior, like maybe the Low Latency button. Right now I use a keyboard shortcut to switch to an audio track, but ... still, not ideal. Sometimes you DO want an instrument track selected.


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## rnb_2 (Jan 6, 2022)

KEM said:


> Do you think the Mac Pro will really happen this year? I’ve watched a few videos on it and at the rumored price/specs it sounds like an absolute no-brainer of a purchase


Apple reiterated the "2-year process" in the MacBook Pro announcement, so it seems like everything is still on target. The current expectation is that the Mac Pro will be "previewed" at WWDC in June, and release late in the year (very similar to how they handled the 2019 Mac Pro).


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## Soundbed (Jan 6, 2022)

Flyo said:


> So clearly a new M1 Pro 14’ with 16Ram don’t will open large medium large sessions with Vsts? Besides swap function and buffer sizes?


Well it depends on what you mean by large to medium. (And even what you mean by VSTs.)

But Kontakt buffer sizes should be adjusted no matter what, if you are pulling from SSDs.

Many sampler buffer size preferences are set to work for spinning hard drives unless otherwise noted — for instance the Synchron player products often mention an SSD is required.

Swap files aren't necessarily to be avoided at all costs; but their initial design was long long ago and "might" not serve the orchestral sample composer in many situations as a replacement for 16GB RAM using today's sample instruments.

I have read of some composers using M1 w/ 16GB and getting by and getting work done....

But the newer M1 w/ 32GB seems to be the "minimum" most using large voice count (which is probably more important that "track count" are happy with; and M1 w/ 64GB seems to be extremely comfortable for the vast majority, in my informal "survey" of social media composers I know, and even this forum.


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## KEM (Jan 6, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Apple reiterated the "2-year process" in the MacBook Pro announcement, so it seems like everything is still on target. The current expectation is that the Mac Pro will be "previewed" at WWDC in June, and release late in the year (very similar to how they handled the 2019 Mac Pro).



I’ve been seeing the reports of the Silicon version being like a modern version of the G4 Cube and releasing later this year so I really do hope it happens


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## Soundbed (Jan 6, 2022)

KEM said:


> I’ve been seeing the reports of the Silicon version being like a modern version of the G4 Cube and releasing later this year so I really do hope it happens


Yeah I read it might look like two or three mac Minis stacked on top of each other (but one aluminum cube).


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## rnb_2 (Jan 6, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Yeah I read it might look like two or three mac Minis stacked on top of each other (but one aluminum cube).


There are also some mockups out there of something that looks like a ½-size 2019 Mac Pro, but I'm hopeful that we'll see something unexpected in the design. Keep in mind that Jon Prosser is the guy who got things very wrong in not only predicting, but commissioning illustrations of, the "new case design for Apple Watch" that didn't happen last year. He does sometimes get very close to the mark, but he's also had some big misses.


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## river angler (Jan 7, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Sometimes you DO want an instrument track selected.


Maybe you didn't grasp my post fully?... as long as Logic is the only program running as well as internet disengaged I can actually track record to midi or audio no problem with up to 70 odd instrument tracks running live no problem.


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## aeliron (Jan 8, 2022)

river angler said:


> Maybe you didn't grasp my post fully?... as long as Logic is the only program running as well as internet disengaged I can actually track record to midi or audio no problem with up to 70 odd instrument tracks running live no problem.


Ah, i didn’t realize you had included that scenario. I get a huge diff/spike when an instrument track is selected. M1 32 gb. Wonder what optimization I’m missing.


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## Soundbed (Jan 8, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Ah, i didn’t realize you had included that scenario. I get a huge diff/spike when an instrument track is selected. M1 32 gb. Wonder what optimization I’m missing.


Is it only Logic that makes a difference (record enabled)? I wasn’t noticing an issue in Studio One as I recall… but that might have been after they optimized.


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## river angler (Jan 8, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Ah, i didn’t realize you had included that scenario. I get a huge diff/spike when an instrument track is selected. M1 32 gb. Wonder what optimization I’m missing.


...To be more precise I have also found that if you boot logic when the internet browser is on even turning off the browser before you start using logic will result in the same spikes as Logic doesn't seem to readjust its RAM usage if another program is switched off after it has booted! Hence I only ever boot Logic on its own.


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## aeliron (Jan 8, 2022)

Wow. Will keep in mind.


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## aeliron (Jan 8, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> Is it only Logic that makes a difference (record enabled)? I wasn’t noticing an issue in Studio One as I recall… but that might have been after they optimized.


I don’t have S1 😟


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## Pier (Jan 8, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> That will debut in the new MacBook Air, likely in the first half of the year.


Could be, but Apple still has to release the big iMac and the Mac Pro (most likely with the M1). It would be weird if they released the Air with an M2 before that happens.


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## rnb_2 (Jan 8, 2022)

Pier said:


> Could be, but Apple still has to release the big iMac and the Mac Pro (most likely with the M1). It would be weird if they released the Air with an M2 before that happens.


It might feel weird for a while, but this is how it's almost certainly going to be, at least for the near future. The new low-end chip will be based off of the then-current A-series processor, and will get the faster single core performance and whatever other optimizations (GPU, etc) that features, but will not compete with the Pro/Max/Ultra (or whatever they call the very high end processor) of the previous generation for multi-core performance.

The Pro/Max version of that processor will follow 6-12 months after the base version, with the very high end chip coming another 6-12 months later. Overall product cycle will probably be ~18-21 months from initial, low-end release through very high-end, though it's difficult to predict exactly, since we haven't seen a full cycle yet (and it's the first one).

Historically, they've already done similar with iPhone vs iPad Pro processors, where the new iPhones have faster single-core performance than the current iPad Pro, sometimes for an entire processor generation, since the X variants sometimes skipped a generation due to the longer product cycle. The Mac will follow a similar cycle, with some odd timings due to the greater number of products in the line. Maybe they'll be able to release the new high-end MacBook Pro and iMac closer together in the future, but I would expect that we will almost certainly see the debut of the base M(X+1) processor before the Mac Pro featuring the ultimate version of the M(X) processor generation is released.

You see similar from Intel, where the current Xeon line is often 1-2 generations behind the process version of the current desktop/laptop line.


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## Pier (Jan 9, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Historically, they've already done similar with iPhone vs iPad Pro processors, where the new iPhones have faster single-core performance than the current iPad Pro, sometimes for an entire processor generation, since the X variants sometimes skipped a generation due to the longer product cycle.


The iPhone is Apple's rock star product. It makes total sense to release it with the latest innovations. Also Mac release cycles have been very different compared to iPhones which have been released every year like clockwork. It's a very different market.

You could argue the Air is probably the best selling Mac, but OTOH its users are not that performance oriented unlike users of pro products.

Another argument against releasing the M2 before the iMac/Mac Pro is that Apple would not gain much by releasing an M2 Air at this point. The M1 laptops are already way ahead of the competition and there are still a lot of of users with Intel Macs.

I don't know, I could be totally wrong on this, but time will tell. I think we won't really have a grasp on the new release cycles for ARM Macs until a couple of years have passed.


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## rnb_2 (Jan 9, 2022)

Holding the new base processor back until the very highest-end iteration of the previous gen is on the market just lengthens the product cycle unnecessarily - those chips aren't competing for the same customers. The customer for the Mac Pro understands that, and is used to high-end desktop and workstation chips shipping well after the mobile chips that introduce the new process version, even after the next revision for the workstation chips - it's the nature of the market.

The M1Ultra Mac Pro may be announced in June, but probably won't ship until late in the year, around the second anniversary of the M1 (possibly later). If they hold the M2 Air until after that, you're looking at next Spring, so ~30 month cycle instead of ~18, and I just don't see the benefit of that in the intended markets.


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## Pier (Jan 9, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> I just don't see the benefit of that in the intended markets.



IMO it would make total sense for the intended market.

The majority of Mac users do not update their machines every 18 months and, as I wrote before, the vast majority of Mac users are still on Intel machines.

Plus M1 laptops are abundantly powerful CPU wise even for the most demanding users. I doubt most M1 users would feel the need to update to an M2 chip.

Maybe it would make sense for Apple to release the M2 (or whatever it's called) earlier to compete with the Ryzen 6000 mobile chips.


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## rnb_2 (Jan 9, 2022)

The reason to release the M2 Air won't really be the power of the chip vs M1 - as you said, the M1 has more than enough power for any consumer, and many pro, uses - it's to get the new consumer design language out there, same as the iBook following the iMac two decades ago. There will also be an element of pushing the pedal to the floor vs the Intel/AMD "thin and light" options, as nothing can really compete with M1 now, and M2 will just widen the gap.

The M1 Air is great - I'm typing this on one, Frankensteined with three MIDI controllers, five external drives, a 27" 4K display, a Wacom tablet, Magic Trackpad 2, and Logitech keyboard - but the initial M1 releases were intentionally just a new processor in the same familiar shell as the Intel versions they replaced. The 24" iMac was the first clean-sheet M1 design, and the M2 MacBook Air will be the same idea on the laptop side. It will be different/desirable enough that some M1 Air owners will want to upgrade, even if they don't need to, and it will act as "encouragement" for anyone still on an Intel MacBook Air - or a few-years-old MacBook Pro - to take a look.


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## Pier (Jan 9, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> it's to get the new consumer design language out there, same as the iBook following the iMac two decades ago


Hmm that could be 🤔



rnb_2 said:


> as nothing can really compete with M1 now


A couple of days ago AMD announced the mobile Ryzen 6000 chips at CES. From what I've read, those chips are in the ballpark with the M1 offerings in terms of efficiency, and faster in terms of CPU/GPU performance. Although we'll see how they really fare once we get real benchmarks.


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## 3CPU (Jan 13, 2022)

I believe single core speed is important, Intel leads for now, and then AMD will soon lead again, and so on and so forth (repeat) :|| 

While AMD and Intel tease with roadmaps and preemptive benchmarks to try and outdo one another..... Apple moves along quietly, tight-lipped! Surely they have something in the pipeline. Perhaps more powerful 'desktops' processors may be released in the near future. 

2022-2023, competition is great! All hitting the ballpark, any high-end from either brand will get the job done... but right at this point in time is tricky for new build or pre-build -- new core architecture, new memory standards, compatibility shake up and availability, delays, and prices for some components are ridiculously expensive e.i dedicated GPU.

My preference is a "*desktop*" for DAW, video editing and 3D renders.


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## from_theashes (May 5, 2022)

river angler said:


> Maybe you didn't grasp my post fully?... as long as Logic is the only program running as well as internet disengaged I can actually track record to midi or audio no problem with up to 70 odd instrument tracks running live no problem.


I‘m heavily considering a MacBook Air m1 with 8GB Ram…. My Logic Sessions are 20-30 tracks on average of Kontakt-bases instruments and 2 tracks of software synths (just composing as a hobby here and then). You think this machine is capable of handling these tasks without hassle?


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## river angler (May 5, 2022)

from_theashes said:


> I‘m heavily considering a MacBook Air m1 with 8GB Ram…. My Logic Sessions are 20-30 tracks on average of Kontakt-bases instruments and 2 tracks of software synths (just composing as a hobby here and then). You think this machine is capable of handling these tasks without hassle?



Any MacBook laptop will work fine for that though 16GB RAM will run a lot smoother for you. It all depends how serious you intend to delve into your hobby! My main gripe with the modern laptops is their lack of a second internal drive slot.

I wouldn't even consider buying any modern machine as the MBPro 2012 is far more versatile connection wise without needing a hub and its i7 chip is ample fast enough for pro use. The mere fact that it has a second internal drive slot is a massive advantage over all the modern machines!
I have a 2TB SSD running all my music instrument content on that second internal plus it has all the built in connections I need: firewire 800, 2 x first gen USB3 for hanging my logic audio/project scratch drive and controller keyboard respectively plus a thunderbolt 1 port that I actually use to attach extra VGA screens! It even has independent audio i/O mini jacks (that can work digital or analogue) and an SD card slot! ...Makes all the modern machines look decidedly stingy on the connection front! If mine broke I'd still buy another secondhand 2012 MBPro (currently @ £300 with 16GM RAM) over any modern version for all the reasons I've explained in other threads.
Here's a 50 minute symphonic arrangement that is actually a 69 live instrument track session! (won't all fit in the Logic arrange page!) No need even to use the Freeze function!


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## from_theashes (May 5, 2022)

river angler said:


> Any MacBook laptop will work fine for that though 16GB RAM will run a lot smoother for you. It all depends how serious you intend to delve into your hobby! My main gripe with the modern laptops is their lack of a second internal drive slot.
> 
> I wouldn't even consider buying any modern machine as the MBPro 2012 is far more versatile connection wise without needing a hub and its i7 chip is ample fast enough for pro use. The mere fact that it has a second internal drive slot is a massive advantage over all the modern machines!
> I have a 2TB SSD running all my music instrument content on that second internal plus it has all the built in connections I need: firewire 800, 2 x first gen USB3 for hanging my logic audio/project scratch drive and controller keyboard respectively plus a thunderbolt 1 port that I actually use to attach extra VGA screens! It even has independent audio i/O mini jacks (that can work digital or analogue) and an SD card slot! ...Makes all the modern machines look decidedly stingy on the connection front! If mine broke I'd still buy another secondhand 2012 MBPro (currently @ £300 with 16GM RAM) over any modern version for all the reasons I've explained in other threads.
> Here's a 50 minute symphonic arrangement that is actually a 69 live instrument track session! (won't all fit in the Logic arrange page!) No need even to use the Freeze function!


Well… I had a 2009 Mac Mini i5 (16gb of RAM) that struggled heavily with recording audio and midi. And my current 2017 iMac i5 with 40gb RAM is struggling here and there with multitasking and some Logic sessions.

I don’t compose on a regular basis, cause I don’t have the time anymore… but if the MacBook Air would be capable of doing these tasks (some Spitfire Kontakt-libraries, HOOPUS, Damage 2, Pigments 3) with just 8GB of RAM, this would be awesome.


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## rnb_2 (May 5, 2022)

from_theashes said:


> Well… I had a 2009 Mac Mini i5 (16gb of RAM) that struggled heavily with recording audio and midi. And my current 2017 iMac i5 with 40gb RAM is struggling here and there with multitasking and some Logic sessions.
> 
> I don’t compose on a regular basis, cause I don’t have the time anymore… but if the MacBook Air would be capable of doing these tasks (some Spitfire Kontakt-libraries, HOOPUS, Damage 2, Pigments 3) with just 8GB of RAM, this would be awesome.


I'd recommend 16GB to increase the useful life of the computer, but other than that, the M1 MacBook Air is absolutely capable of running all of that, no problem. As long as your sample drive is fast enough, most sample players have ways to conserve RAM (purging, Opus's "never preload" setting, etc).


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## Soundbed (May 5, 2022)

from_theashes said:


> Well… I had a 2009 Mac Mini i5 (16gb of RAM) that struggled heavily with recording audio and midi. And my current 2017 iMac i5 with 40gb RAM is struggling here and there with multitasking and some Logic sessions.
> 
> I don’t compose on a regular basis, cause I don’t have the time anymore… but if the MacBook Air would be capable of doing these tasks (some Spitfire Kontakt-libraries, HOOPUS, Damage 2, Pigments 3) with just 8GB of RAM, this would be awesome.


and


from_theashes said:


> I‘m heavily considering a MacBook Air m1 with 8GB Ram…. My Logic Sessions are 20-30 tracks on average of Kontakt-bases instruments and 2 tracks of software synths (just composing as a hobby here and then). You think this machine is capable of handling these tasks without hassle?


it's hard to say this for me, but my 8GB Mac Mini simply doesn't cut it for me, even with about 20 Kontakt / HOOPUS instruments.

BUT - there is an easy way for you to try it out: Apple has a 2-week return policy (at least in the US). I bought mine from Costco and they have a 6 month (?!) return policy. 

I wish I could recommend 8GB but I cannot. Newer libraries assume more "temporary memory" aka RAM.


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## from_theashes (May 5, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> and
> 
> it's hard to say this for me, but my 8GB Mac Mini simply doesn't cut it for me, even with about 20 Kontakt / HOOPUS instruments.
> 
> ...


That‘s a pity… The price difference between a new „second-hand“ MBA 8GB and the cheapest 16GB version I could find is 500€… which is a bit heavy for just more RAM. So maybe I‘ll keep my iMac and just get the small MBA to replace my iPad.


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## rnb_2 (May 5, 2022)

from_theashes said:


> That‘s a pity… The price difference between a new „second-hand“ MBA 8GB and the cheapest 16GB version I could find is 500€… which is a bit heavy for just more RAM. So maybe I‘ll keep my iMac and just get the small MBA to replace my iPad.


Keep an eye on the Apple Refurb store on their website - there are no 16GB models available on the US refurb store at the moment, but I'm sure they do have them from time to time. That usually knocks 15% off of the retail price.


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## river angler (May 5, 2022)

...I know for sure there are quite a few others who dip into this forum from time to time who also
still use the 2012 MBP. It's my guess the reason why the later machines struggle is because the content drives have to be hung off a USB which is never going to be as efficient as running content on an internal drive. That second internal drive in the 2012 MBP is what must make the difference.

There are a few lesser known tricks that also contribute to the efficiency of the 2012 MBP such as never having any internet browser open when booting Logic. The only program open should be Logic.

I also believe sticking with High Sierra running Logic 10.4.8. just works more efficiently.
I get it that some people may need to access some software plugins that require Catalina and onwards plus they may want the newer features offered in later versions of Logic. I don't and 
so I stay with High Sierra that works really well for me and appears to outperform many more modern setups.


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