# Apollo Twin MKII, Presonus Quantum or Antelope Discrete?



## José Herring (Sep 29, 2020)

So, I'm moving a bit out of the phase of library buying and into the final phase of upgrades to my studio. 

Alas my old trusted audio interface will be phased out and I need a replacement. The old interface used the best converters and still has an impressive RTL that rivals RME so I've had a hard time finding anything that isn't in the above $2000 range which I have no inclining of spending that much right now. 

I've narrowed it down to these three:

Apollo Twin MkII-- Equal to the specs of my old interface. I'd probably be getting the Duo rather than the quad and not really too interested in too many UAD plugins but will run a few for sure. 

Presonus Quatum -- Better in performance than my current audio interface, whole host of new features that i could enjoy, but....it's presonus. Not exactly a trusted name in audio for me, but I'd love to be wrong.

Antelope Discrete -- new plugins that seem to be good. Performance is better than what I have. Probably will go for the 4 rather than the eight. Limited in i/o compared to the Presonus and just seems to be a little on the, meh, side in terms of features. 

Anybody with any experience with any of these? And, for now RME is just off the table mostly because I just don't want to spend that much on a Thunderbolt interface and I'm not too keen on USB interfaces. Even USB 3.0 seems like it's slower than what I have. 

Thx.


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## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2020)

I have an Apollo Twin X. I love it.

You will want a quad and not a Duo. Want you have in your head compared to what you will actually be able to use is quite staggering. A Duo will likely run about 2 API Vision channel strips. Anyway. It's your call I just know howfrsustrating it is with running out of DSP. It doesn't go far.

Anyway, the Apollo is a great interface. As I play Guitar and use a Mic (sometimes at the same time), having Unity preamps that allow me to run UAD2 plugins in real time with no perceivable latency especially whist in the middle of writing often with a large template, is just so valuable to me at this point. It sounds great, it's instant love with the plugins and preamps and so simple to use. 

I know I have the Twin X and not the mk2 but they are similar with exception to upgraded Unity Preamps. Definitely an Interface you should seriously consider especially if you want to use UAD2 plugins (they sound absolutely incredible by the way).

I haven't used the others but high end Antelope is good stuff with flexible routing options (not used the Quantum though) and I don't really have many thoughts about Presonus stuff other than "Cheap and Cheerful'. Which isn't a bad thing. Just not on the same level as UA or Antelope in my opinion.


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## method1 (Sep 29, 2020)

Mac or PC? What are you replacing?

I had nothing but trouble with antelope, not a brand I trust, personally I'd go for presonus over them any day!


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## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2020)

method1 said:


> Mac or PC? What are you replacing?
> 
> I had nothing but trouble with antelope, not a brand I trust, personally I'd go for presonus over them any day!



What Antelope though? And yeah, were you using it on PC or Mac?

Their top end stuff is world class. And their Trinity Clocks are exceptional. But not as good as their 10MX Rubidium clocks (the studio I work at uses these clocks to sync the studios). To put Antelope in the same ring as Presonus is like comparing a gambling machine in an English local pub to Vegas. Each to their own off course.


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## method1 (Sep 29, 2020)

Orion32+ - it's a nightmare of a story and I won't go into it here.
Some big music retailers dropped Antelope mostly over support issues, I don't deny the quality of some of the devices when they work, I'm saying for reliability, between the two, I'd choose presonus.


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## Marsen (Sep 29, 2020)

Apollo Twin MK II
And you want the quad, not the duo.
Rock solid. Professional sound, DAC's, monitoring, near latency free live recording with plug's, no extra load for your host computer, sound of UAD Plug-ins are superb.


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## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2020)

method1 said:


> Orion32+ - it's a nightmare of a story and I won't go into it here.
> Some big music retailers dropped Antelope mostly over support issues, I don't deny the quality of some of the devices when they work, I'm saying for reliability, between the two, I'd choose presonus.



That's fair enough and I feel for you. I live in a world of constantly fixing stuff. I should say, the computers being used with the Orions and clocks are Trashcans still on Mojave. Catalina is a shitshow with PT and HDX and yeah, let's not even get into this stuff.

I just remembered Antelope has it's own plugins like UAD but I've not tried them nor have I heard anyone talk about the quality of them. Not like UAD anyway.


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## José Herring (Sep 29, 2020)

I'm on PC and about to build a new DAW. 

My decade old I7 is running an old Echo Audio Gina card which in all honestly I haven't upgrade because a) it never crashed not even once, and b) it uses top of the line converters and c) The rountrip latency is better than most RME cards and so the performance is Amazing. Sadly though no drivers for it as Echo Audio has no moved on to testing high end Ethernet Audio connections and abandoned their audio recording aspirations after their dismal release of the Echo Audio Firewire series which bombed and was a step way backwards for them. 

Years of on and off pleading with them to release a new version of the Gina series with their Ethernet audio knowledge has only lead to them shrugging their virtual shoulders at me as if to say, meh, not interested. 

The reason whey I included Presonus is their new Quatum series is seriously good. It's beating the pants off even units costing 5x's as much and right now is the fastest interface on the market with good converters, ect.. But......it's presonus. It's kind of like Behringer to me. Yeah, they are making some of the best synths NOW, but their 2 decades of crap is hard to forget. 

I'll look into the Twin Quad. More than what I want to spend but that's the story of my adult life. I just need to get use to it.


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## JonS (Sep 29, 2020)

José Herring said:


> So, I'm moving a bit out of the phase of library buying and into the final phase of upgrades to my studio.
> 
> Alas my old trusted audio interface will be phased out and I need a replacement. The old interface used the best converters and still has an impressive RTL that rivals RME so I've had a hard time finding anything that isn't in the above $2000 range which I have no inclining of spending that much right now.
> 
> ...


Get an Apollo x6!!


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## method1 (Sep 29, 2020)

Lynx have pretty decent low latency performance and very good converters, but also pricy.
If latency is your top priority then RME HSDP is top of the heap.

There's a long running thread on GS with loads of info:









Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base - Gearspace.com


Hey All, I am sure all of us have seen posts over the years where end users have purchased a new audio interface and have experienced varying degrees o



www.gearslutz.com


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## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2020)

José Herring said:


> I'll look into the Twin Quad. More than what I want to spend but that's the story of my adult life. I just need to get use to it.



I can't put into words how great the Apollo is. And it's all expandable if you need it later. It's an expensive ecosystem but man, it's a good one to be in! You'll have to cut back on all the prostitutes (facemark wearing ones) and Cocaine binges but it will be worth it.

Or buy some Lavry Blues and be done with it


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## José Herring (Sep 29, 2020)

method1 said:


> Lynx have pretty decent low latency performance and very good converters, but also pricy.
> If latency is your top priority then RME HSDP is top of the heap.
> 
> There's a long running thread on GS with loads of info:
> ...


Yeah, I've been looking at that and is why I considered the Antelope interface. But, wasn't aware of their bad history. 

As far as cards I'm trying to avoid have to buy a card and a converter. I like the Lynx but I don't want to also have to buy a converter for it.


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## José Herring (Sep 29, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> ....You'll have to cut back on all the prostitutes (facemark wearing ones) and Cocaine binges but it will be worth it.


Would life really be worth living after all that?


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## John Longley (Sep 29, 2020)

José Herring said:


> So, I'm moving a bit out of the phase of library buying and into the final phase of upgrades to my studio.
> 
> Alas my old trusted audio interface will be phased out and I need a replacement. The old interface used the best converters and still has an impressive RTL that rivals RME so I've had a hard time finding anything that isn't in the above $2000 range which I have no inclining of spending that much right now.
> 
> ...


I am a diehard RME user-- but I have several clients who have had incredibly bad experiences with Antelope, especially the current generation, so I would avoid them.


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## method1 (Sep 29, 2020)

Apollo seems like a good bet then, it's a great platform, and UAD support is top notch.
As others have said though, a DUO isn't gonna give you much DSP horsepower.


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## José Herring (Sep 29, 2020)

Thx for the reports. 

So Presonus is pretty much off the table. Still want to give it a bit more research but only to do my due diligence and not neglect it because of what ever fixed opinion I have.

Apollo Quad has moved to the top of the list. But since I have to face the fact that I'm going to need to spend in that range I'll need to consider some RME options again.

At any rate I got my answer on when to stop buying sample libraries. Deciding to build a new DAW pretty much put an end to that..... for now


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## José Herring (Sep 29, 2020)

gst98 said:


> I'm a big fan of UAD, but as people say the power you get in terms of DSP chips for your money is pretty bad. In the UK the duo is £600 vs £900 for the quad. The extra £300 only gets you _two_ more DSP cores. I bought a used Octo satellite for £600, and you can get the Quad satellites used for about £400. So I would recomend just getting the Duo, and if you find you want to run more plugins get yourself a satellite because they are far better value for money.


Yep, I was looking at something similar. I could get the Octo card for around a thousand and add that to the Duo.


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## wst3 (Sep 30, 2020)

I'm in the minority, but I like Presonus. I still have an Audiobox 1818VSL in the rack that I use from time to time when I need more gozintas and gozoutas. I've played with the Quantum and it sounds good. Really good! I have no issues with the company, they are constantly trying to move up-market, I respect that.

Even so, I use an Apollo Twin USB as my main interface. I have heard the next gen Apollos, and they do sound better. I don't know how. When I finally replace my DAW with something that supports TB I will be upgrading my Apollo as well (which makes that adventure really expensive<G>!)

Antelope - they make great products, and several folks whom I respect tell me the new plugins are really good, probably on the same level as UA. I have not had a chance to compare the two side by side, but I have no problem believing that. The company has had some bumps in the road, but I think they are a serious contender. I would not write them off.

So why Apollo?

Sound quality - there are better sounding converters on the market, but their prices are beyond my budget. The sound quality/dollar ration fo the Apollo line is pretty darned good.

The Plugins, and especially the Unison Plugins - I'm a fan. I'm not suggesting there are not native plugins that sound as good, I will suggest that I've yet to hear any that sound better - within the realm of emulations. There are modern plugins that offer features that didn't exist in ancient hardware, a "feature" I wish UA would adopt.

And I have yet to use any preamplifier or guitar amplifier emulation that matches the UA Unison plugins. OK, not entirely true, the Kemper is on a par with UA, maybe a small step above, but that's all it does, so I can't (yet) fit it into my budget.

And then there is the investment I've made, which I do not expect I'd recover at any reasonable rate if I tried to sell.

That's not trivial. If there were an interface and plugins that blew UA out of the water, at a comparable price point, I'd have to consider it. But the differences between UA and their competitors are small, and for the most part subject to taste. 

Which means for me it's UA all the way.

For you? Sadly not quite so clear cut. I do not think you can make a mistake between the three you are considering. It might just come down to the plugins??? If you even want plugins.

Aside - when UA tied plugins to interfaces I stayed clear, I used their PCI cards, and other interfaces. I saw no reason to mix. Then I used a first gen Apollo at a friends studio. It sounded great. But at the time it wasn't head and shoulders above my 1818VSL. Better, but not enough to push me. Then said friend invited me over to hear his new Apollo Twin. This one had the Unison feature, and it was cool. There were probably only a couple plugins that used Unison, but they were impressive. And now I had to admit, absent plugins, I could hear more detail with the Twin than I could with the 1818VSL. Still not night and day, but enough. I didn't have a TB computer, and I did not want to invest in Firewire, so I sat tight and when the Apollo Twin USB was released I bought one. I have not yet regretted the purchase.

There are a lot of great interfaces on the market today - I suppose we ought to be grateful, instead of frustrated<G>!


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 30, 2020)

I have an Apollo Twin I've had for years, and its a great interface and I woudm buy another one tomorrow.

The only thing I have against UAD is that their plugins are the software equivalent of crack cocaine.....


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## wst3 (Oct 1, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> The only thing I have against UAD is that their plugins are the software equivalent of crack cocaine.....


An accurate assessment!


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## CoffeeLover (Oct 2, 2020)

OOOooh Universal Audio and the smell of old Digidesign in there had kept me away from them for years 
untill i got the twin mk2 quad when it came out.
i was never going to buy anything from UAD ever.
now i have apollo twin quad connected with thunderbolt to my new apollo x8
i have my vocal mic connected and 3 signals from my bass guitar rig connected and also 
my kemper guitar profiler being used in full mode. and an 8 channel summing cable from the 8 outs and into the 2 input preamps on the quad.
best thing also is i dont have to touch the cables they all remain there and if i record vocals bass or guitar then i only have to call up my preset template in the console app.
and even if you are not recording any analog signal you can connect two cables from output 3 and 4 into the two preamps and use the Unison feature,
when i only had the twin i recorded each of my group tracks like that.
it saved me resources like that with good results.
i recommend quad over the duo.


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## AcousTech (Oct 2, 2020)

I've got the Quantum, but likely none of the chops you guys have. That said, I've got it on a Mac running Catalina and it has been super solid. I love UA stuff, but for the money, if you don't want/need(is any of this really a "need"?) their plugins, the Quantum is solid. It has great latency so that if you have plugins on your computer(obviously not UA plugins) then that Thunderbolt connection is so fast, and has super low latency that you can get similar performance - experientially speaking - as you might running UA plugins directly in the DSPs on their hardware. 

Also, if you use Studio One, the integration with the interface is great, as you can control everything from directly within the DAW. That's a very nice ability. It works fine as an interface with other DAWs too, of course, and I have used it with Cubase Pro, as well as Logic, but the first party integration with SO is impressive. 

The one oddity, if you can call it that, is that it has such low latency(and no onboard DSP) that they don't have a software mixer in it. So Input -> Quantum -> DAW, as opposed, for example, to Input -> UAD -> UAD Mixer -> DAW. Took me a bit to get my head wrapped around it, given experience with past interfaces, but it's actually simpler than having one more piece of software to manage in the middle of the chain when you think about it. 

All comes down to $$ though. UA is a whole different class of animal. But for me, as a noob hobbyist, the Quantum has been great. And, I suppose, you could always add a UA Satellite if you're craving those particularly pricey plugins...


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## Loïc D (Oct 2, 2020)

Antelope has a bad reputation with issues and lack of support.
On the paper it’s a workhorse but Antelope is often overpromising and underdelivering (some users are still waiting for a fix update on their Zen).
I didn’t regret not buying when I was about to buy a Zen Tour.


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## wst3 (Oct 2, 2020)

It is unfortunate that Antelope dropped the ball, their hardware designs are really quite good. But like others, I'm not ready to trust them with my money.

The Presonus interfaces have a lot going for them, not the least of which is tight integration with Studio One.

And yet I stick with my Apollo Twin, if it were not for the Unison inputs I might be quite happy with a Quantum (which still requires a TB capable computer, so that's out) or even my Audiobox 1818VSL.

But hey, the marketplace is constantly changing, so who knows what next month will bring<G>


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## José Herring (Oct 2, 2020)

Thanks for all the wonderful responses. 

Yes, the converters are a big deal to me. I need something that sounds absolutely top quality. The plugins not such a huge deal. I've got tons of great plugins already and I'm going to get PA plugins and there's a lot of cross over. 

Getting both, hmmmm..... This thing is getting more expensive but I could get the UAD Twin Quad and the Prosonus for more inputs.


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## AcousTech (Oct 2, 2020)

If you use a Quantum for more inputs, particularly if those additional inputs are the mic pres, then you'll be using the Quantum converters anyway, right? So maybe start there, see if you like the sound of those, and if you do, you're done! You can get a used Quantum for ~$500-600. If you don't like it, you can always sell the Quantum and step up(way up!) to UAD... Consider the spend "education", and it's a little easier to pay for.


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## José Herring (Oct 2, 2020)

AcousTech said:


> If you use a Quantum for more inputs, particularly if those additional inputs are the mic pres, then you'll be using the Quantum converters anyway, right? So maybe start there, see if you like the sound of those, and if you do, you're done! You can get a used Quantum for ~$500-600. If you don't like it, you can always sell the Quantum and step up(way up!) to UAD... Consider the spend "education", and it's a little easier to pay for.


Way back when I was a UAD 1 user and never could justifying getting the UAD 2 card after UAD 1 was abandoned. Part of me now is just thinking to quit my whining and just get the Appollo UAD 6x for all that it offers in terms of IO and UAD plugins, but then part of me is like UAD 2 is now old technology with those stupid RISC chips that Apple use to use in the late 90's and it's only a matter of a year or two when they go UAD 3 with bigger badder DSP chips.
So that's a consideration. How long will UAD 2 be viable 1 year, 2, 3 tops imo.


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## JonS (Oct 2, 2020)

José Herring said:


> Way back when I was a UAD 1 user and never could justifying getting the UAD 2 card after UAD 1 was abandoned. Part of me now is just thinking to quit my whining and just get the Appollo UAD 6x for all that it offers in terms of IO and UAD plugins, but then part of me is like UAD 2 is now old technology with those stupid RISC chips that Apple use to use in the late 90's and it's only a matter of a year or two when they go UAD 3 with bigger badder DSP chips.
> So that's a consideration. How long will UAD 2 be viable 1 year, 2, 3 tops imo.


People have speculated that UAD-3 would come out any moment years and years ago and it still hasn't. My guess is UAD-2 sells so well they have no need to come out with UAD-3.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Oct 2, 2020)

Have you considered RME?


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## José Herring (Oct 2, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> Have you considered RME?


Yeah, but RME has always been kind of odd to me. Can't place my finger on it but the options they have just don't appeal to me. If I go with the PCie card then I'll have to get a converter then the all in one solutions are way expensive for just a box, ect.... Just never found the right RME configuration that I liked.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Oct 2, 2020)

José Herring said:


> Yeah, but RME has always been kind of odd to me. Can't place my finger on it but the options they have just don't appeal to me. If I go with the PCie card then I'll have to get a converter then the all in one solutions are way expensive for just a box, ect.... Just never found the right RME configuration that I liked.


You don't need a converter with their PCIe cards, it's got converters on the card.

Check this for example:




__





HDSPe AIO Pro - RME Audio Interfaces | Format Converters | Preamps | Network Audio & MADI Solutions


RME Audio Professional Live, Studio, Recording and Broadcast Solutions. Unrivalled Quality, Performance & Stability MADI Interfaces, Converters & Preamps.




www.rme-audio.de





If you need more analog I/O, you can get expansion boards for it:




__





Expansion Boards - RME Audio Interfaces | Format Converters | Preamps | Network Audio & MADI Solutions


RME Audio Professional Live, Studio, Recording and Broadcast Solutions. Unrivalled Quality, Performance & Stability MADI Interfaces, Converters & Preamps.




www.rme-audio.de





But enough about RME, I was just curious if you'd considered them too.


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## José Herring (Oct 2, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> You don't need a converter with their PCIe cards, it's got converters on the card.
> 
> Check this for example:
> 
> ...


I'm interested. 

I just never fully got or trusted the little break out cables so always assumed you need a converter to get really reliable IO. 

But, I can pick one up for relatively cheap and test it out. If I don't like it I can ebay that card.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Oct 2, 2020)

José Herring said:


> I'm interested.
> 
> I just never fully got or trusted the little break out cables so always assumed you need a converter to get really reliable IO.
> 
> But, I can pick one up for relatively cheap and test it out. If I don't like it I can ebay that card.


Ah ok, that way. I don’t trust that little break out cable either! Got a Babyface Pro because of that.


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## Kent (Oct 2, 2020)

I like PreSonus on principle, but a studio I worked at got burned with their discontinuation of VSL support so that has made me very wary of their interfaces.

As such, when it was time for me to upgrade, I ended up going with the RME Fireface UFX+.


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## method1 (Oct 2, 2020)

@José Herring how much I/O do you need?


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## José Herring (Oct 2, 2020)

method1 said:


> @José Herring how much I/O do you need?


I need to plug in two mics and I have some hardware synths (3) that need to be plug in as well. I'd like to have them dedicated to an input. I'm also going to get at least 2 more synths in the near future. One synth will be stereo I'm sure. The others all mono.

In the end, I could do with at least 8 inputs and 2 to 4 outputs. Right now I have the opposite of that and it's a PIA.

I was considering believe it or not the Behringer ADA8200 for additional line level inputs if needed. I hear it's good for that. But, I'm always ashamed to admit that there are a couple of Behringer things that seem like they're pretty decent. Plus it's time for an upgrade to my DAW so a new audio interface is part of that.


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## José Herring (Oct 2, 2020)

kmaster said:


> I like PreSonus on principle, but a studio I worked at got burned with their discontinuation of VSL support so that has made me very wary of their interfaces.
> 
> As such, when it was time for me to upgrade, I ended up going with the RME Fireface UFX+.




I'll check out the UFX+. Thanks


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Oct 2, 2020)

Babyface Pro has 1 x ADAT I/O. Not sure how ADAT works, but I know people connect that Behringer ADA8200 via ADAT. So maybe that combo could work too for you?

Just check if 1 x ADAT I/O gives a max. sample rate of 96k.
I think 192k requires 2 x ADAT I/O.
But others here can no doubt answer this.


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## José Herring (Oct 2, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> Babyface Pro has 1 x ADAT I/O. Not sure how ADAT works, but I know people connect that Behringer ADA8200 via ADAT. So maybe that combo could work too for you?
> 
> Just check if 1 x ADAT I/O gives a max. sample rate of 96k.
> I think 192k requires 2 x ADAT I/O.
> But others here can no doubt answer this.


It would be good if the Babyface pro was more than just USB2. Do they have at least a USB3.0 option? I know their USB2 was suppose to be groundbreaking but I never fully trusted it.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Oct 2, 2020)

José Herring said:


> It would be good if the Babyface pro was more than just USB2. Do they have at least a USB3.0 option? I know there USB2 was suppose to be groundbreaking but I never fully trusted it.


UFX+ and MADIface XT are their only USB3 interfaces, it says here:





__





RME USB - Transport audio with lowest latency and industry leading stability - RME Audio Interfaces | Format Converters | Preamps | Network Audio & MADI Solutions


RME Audio Professional Live, Studio, Recording and Broadcast Solutions. Unrivalled Quality, Performance & Stability MADI Interfaces, Converters & Preamps.




www.rme-audio.de


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Oct 2, 2020)

If you want to hear more about RME’s own USB2 technology, specifically if the total I/O count indeed is as advertised, you could ask over at Gearslutz. There are probably people over there who have real life experience with this and can answer questions about it.


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## José Herring (Oct 2, 2020)

Thank you so much for your help the past 2 days sorting through it. Antelope and the Twin Quad are both not going to work for me.

So I've decided that it either has to be the Prosonus 2626 or the Apollo x4/x6 interfaces. Both have what I need and also the prosonus comes with PA plugins that are really good as well.

At this point the final decision will just be financially motivated rather than anything else. Both would do well. UAD would do better but is it $1000 to $1500 better? Yeah, I'll check my account to find the answer 

Thanks again.


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