# Writing to picture: What are the benefits of running video outside of Logic?



## Soundhound (May 19, 2022)

I've seen some discussions about running video on a separate machine, as well as (I think?) on the same computer by various means, in another program. Just came across this new app from Audio Design Desk called Audio Bridge (got good review rom Pro Tools Expert) that allows Final Cut to lock to Logic and other DAWs.

Looks like it's thought of mostly for film editors, but got me to wondering what the benefits would be for someone like me who works in Logic. Logic is more limited with video than some other daws, i.e. you can’t have multiple videos in a project (though you can using Alternatives) etc.

What are the workflow benefits for you? Are there scenarios in which having the video running seperately helps with organization of cues, revisions etc?






Workflows - ADD Bridge Apps - Collaboration - Audio Design Desk


The only DAW built for video editors. Audio Design Desk is sound design software that works inside of video editing software.




add.app


----------



## gsilbers (May 19, 2022)

Soundhound said:


> I've seen some discussions about running video on a separate machine, as well as (I think?) on the same computer by various means, in another program. Just came across this new app from Audio Design Desk called Audio Bridge (got good review rom Pro Tools Expert) that allows Final Cut to lock to Logic and other DAWs. Look like it's thought of mostly for film editors, but got me to wondering what the benefits would be for someone like me who works in Logic.
> 
> What are the workflow benefits? Are there scenarios in which having the video running this way helps with organization of cues, revisions etc?
> 
> ...




I think VI control should start creating tags for certain Charlie clousers posts. 

Here are some threads. He likes videoslave. Videosync



VI-CONTROL



That bridge looks cool. wish rewire worked better between apps. (and further develop)


----------



## Soundhound (May 19, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> I think VI control should start creating tags for certain Charlie clousers posts.
> 
> Here are some threads. He likes videoslave. Videosync
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for this, this is brilliant. I'm brewing an extra large pot of coffee to dive in.

An Ask Charlie forum section would be a positive boon (Cleese voice), and probably the very last thing Clouser needs.


----------



## charlieclouser (May 19, 2022)

Geez those search results.... you'd think I was an unemployed 58-year-old neckbeard with nothing better to do than write thesis-length posts on audio forums.... oh wait. 

But, yeah, I like outboard video running in VideoSync (formerly called VideoSlave) and synced / slaved to the DAW. There are a couple of cons but a lot of pros. 

Cons:

• You need another computer + monitor, and maybe another keyboard+mouse. If you already have the big tv on the wall, that's the monitor handled. And you can usually find a way to screen-share your way into that computer so you might not need a separate keyboard+mouse (although I keep one connected just in case). But you do need another computer. Fortunately a Mac Mini, even the base M1 model, does the job just fine.

• You need to route audio from that computer into your rig. I just use the 3.5mm headphone jack on the back of the Mac Mini. L = dialog+sfx, R = temp score. Easy. That comes into analog inputs on my MOTU 1248 interface and I monitor it through the MOTU CueMix software, which routes that incoming audio directly to whatever speaker outputs I want, without going into the DAW on an Aux fader or whatever. Then there's no chance of that audio being recorded into the DAW (unless I specifically want it to be), and no chance of that audio getting included in a bounce / print run (again, unless I specifically want it to be). Since I have a set of outputs on my rig that directly feed my speakers, and are not also feeding my print rig, I can even listen to dialog+temp as I'm printing. Nice.

• You need to send MTC from your DAW to VideoSync. I normally use an actual 5-pin MIDI cable, coming from a spare MIDI out on the Unitor8mk2 on my DAW rig and going to a simple 2-in / 2-out USB MIDI interface on the video slave. But you can also use Network MIDI, and I've also done this and it works just fine. You might need to open AudioMidi Setup on each machine and re-connect to the "Network MIDI Session" each time you power up your rig though. Can't remember if it auto-connects or what.

• If you want to be able to scrub or locate precisely with single-frame accuracy between your DAW and the video slave, you'll need to enable MMC on both and maybe fiddle a bit with the settings. I never need to do this though, so I leave MMC turned off. If I need to read off the exact frame of video that something occurs, I use the computer keyboard on the slave to locate - arrow keys scrub one frame at a time. This can also be the keyboard on your main DAW rig if you screen-share into the slave. 

• Cost. VideoSync ain't cheap. Hell, the Pro version costs as much as a base Mac Mini! But you can subscribe to Pro on a month-to-month basis for $38 / month, or Standard for $25 / month, and you can start and stop the subscription as needed. This is one situation where a subscription might make sense if you only score a couple of projects per year.

Pros:

• You can use a playlist in VideoSync to load all 5 or 6 reels of a feature and VideoSync will automatically cue up and play the correct reel in response to timecode hour 1, hour 2, hour 3, etc. Normally reel 1 = hour 1, reel 2 = hour 2, etc. So as you jump around between cues in Logic you don't have to touch the video machine at all. *This is the number one most significant workflow advantage.*

• If you want to fiddle around and see what a cue from reel two sounds like laid up against reel four, just change the SMPTE start point in Logic and hit play. Boom, VideoSync will auto-load and play reel four. No need to remove the reel two video and import the reel four video into your Logic project. Just change the start point and you're done. *This is the number two most significant workflow advantage.*

• If you need to make preview QuickTime movies for the director and producers, with your music mixed with the dialog+temp behind the video, VideoSync can import your music mixes and mix them against the audio from the video, and export it all into a QuickTime movie right then and there. *This is the number three most significant workflow advantage.*

• On the Pro version you can have multiple movies loaded and playing at once, either to multiple monitor outputs or in picture-in-picture mode on a single monitor. This lets you compare new vs old versions of a picture edit, etc. Wicked.

• Video causes no CPU or disc load on the main DAW. Saves CPU load.

• Video doesn't get saved into each cue's project folder in Logic. Saves disc space.

• You won't use up one of your monitor outputs on your main rig for video.

• VideoSync is M1 / Apple Silicon native (!!!), and MacOS Monterey compatible. No Rosetta2 needed.

• A Mac Mini can connect right to a tv via HDMI, and is silent and small enough that you can velcro that sucker to the back of the tv if you want. Copy files + screen share over WiFi, and if you're using Network MIDI then you don't have to feed any cables into it. (Although it's kind of cool to run a MIDI cable to your tv...)

• Since you have to manually route the audio coming in from the video slave, you never have the audio tracks from the video appearing as audio tracks in your DAW, and don't have to remember to mute them before a bounce, etc. I even splurged $80 for a custom fake-aerospace-like switch that I'm wiring up as a pair of simple audio mutes in-line with the audio cable coming from video slave into my audio interfaces:






That will give me big meaty toggles to slap so I don't have to go into the CueMix software to mute either the dialog + temp tracks. Overkill but it was a late-night impulse purchase from Concord Aerospace. They'll print whatever labels you want on the panel for $80, pretty cool. Now I just have to solder the damn cables and mount that sucker into my desk surface. But you could totally skip this part. Or just wire up a couple of foot switches or other cheap switches as mutes and stick 'em anywhere. I don't really need this since I route dialog+temp to my center speaker and I have a mute switch for that on my monitor controller, but a buddy who's a pilot sent me the link and I couldn't resist...


----------



## Brasart (May 19, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> Geez those search results.... you'd think I was an unemployed 58-year-old neckbeard with nothing better to do than write thesis-length posts on audio forums.... oh wait.
> 
> But, yeah, I like outboard video running in VideoSync (formerly called VideoSlave) and synced / slaved to the DAW. There are a couple of cons but a lot of pros.
> 
> ...


I love reading your posts Charlie (please never stop!), but sometimes I do feel like this after reading them :-D


----------



## Axl (May 20, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> I even splurged $80 for a custom fake-aerospace-like switch that I'm wiring up as a pair of simple audio mutes in-line with the audio cable coming from video slave into my audio interfaces:


thank you for taking your time to write this. And that switch looks awsome! where did you get that?

Edit: i think I found it:








CUSTOMIZABLE APOLLO COMMAND MODULE DUAL SWITCH PANEL


All the fun of owning a spacecraft panel designed by YOU! Personalize your Apollo Command Module Switch for every occasion and setting of your choosing. Going to the Moon is complex but designing your custom Apollo Switch is not rocket science. It is simple and easy. Just enter the text you...




www.concordaerospace.com


----------



## charlieclouser (May 20, 2022)

Axl said:


> thank you for taking your time to write this. And that switch looks awsome! where did you get that?
> 
> Edit: i think I found it:
> 
> ...


That’s exactly the one!


----------



## Soundhound (May 20, 2022)

Thanks Charlie, much obliged! The coffee still hasn't kicked in, but I'm going to give the Audio Desk Design Bridge a whirl just to get familiar with it. I do have a Mini sitting around whining about being ignored, but I'm going to try it all on my m1 MacBook Pro and see if it can handle both running together. 

Somebody does need to create a compendium of your posts, pretty incredible stuff that's helped me out of countless trap doors over the years. The bolded 'number one/number two... most significant workflow advantage...' for example. Holy crap. Somewhere Steve Jobs is smiling... 

And those switches, whatever use they get put to, are something everyone should have in their studio, for the vibe if nothing else. It made me think of my favorite scene involving switches... starting at about :40 -


----------



## charlieclouser (May 21, 2022)

Soundhound said:


> And those switches, whatever use they get put to, are something everyone should have in their studio, for the vibe if nothing else. It made me think of my favorite scene involving switches...


One of my oldest friends (who sadly passed away last year) was an avid collector of all things awesome - Synclaviers, vintage vector-graphics arcade video games (Tempest, Ripoff, etc.) - and he was always scouring the yards and shelves at Apex Surplus...









APEX Surplus


APEX Surplus Corporation is a movie industry props & parts source, music industry parts source, science & electronics industry parts source & electronic art industry source including many others for the past 60+ years




apexsurplus.com





... and finding things like switch panels from military aircraft, bomb sights, and once... an entire Synclavier II tower system, still loaded with Michael Jackson tour backing tracks and keyboard sounds. It was sitting out in the yard, but when my buddy spotted those iconic blue road cases he immediately summoned me (and my station wagon) to get over there as quick as possible because it was the one day a year when it rains in LA, and the Synclavier was getting wet! He got it all up and running, found more dead systems to pillage for parts, and wound up with an absolute monster system that would have retailed for a few hundred thousand - and he paid less than $10k for all of it.

Never know what you'll find at Apex Surplus. It's always a fun afternoon when in LA.


----------



## Soundhound (May 21, 2022)

That’s an amazing place. My wife went to some airplane graveyards a few years ago getting all kinds of bizarre stuff for the job she was working on. More heavy metal kinds of things, giant chains with links the size of basketballs, scary stuff. LA has these kinds of places scattered all over.


----------



## charlieclouser (May 22, 2022)

After getting into the Synclavier for so cheap, my buddy went HARD into the paint, and wound up becoming a freaking authority on the thing, accumulating more systems and combining them into an unholy monster rig that encompassed every single feature and upgrade. A fully-bricked-out Direct-To-Disc Tapeless Studio with maxed-out RAM, Sampling Voices, FM voices... every possible upgrade, and two VPK poly-AT keyboards. He accumulated multiple vintage Macs to run the Term-u-lator, and even sought out one of the original engineers, Cameron Jones, and worked with him and others to develop a SCSI-to-SD Card setup, so his rig booted off an SD Card! It was truly mental, but he loved tinkering with that stuff, and I must say his rig sounded ridiculously good. Something about the analog summing bus inside the thing, and the all-mil-spec hardware.... he would actually print his mixes via analog into the Synclav because its A>D was the sweetest he'd heard - and he was one of those golden-ears guys whose opinion I trust. Using a Synclav as a print rig is some serious tweaker stuff...

The reason I mention the Synclav is that those cool red buttons on the VPK that control the thing were supposedly the same buttons used on control panels of the B-52 bomber. So there's the Dr. Strangelove - Synclavier connection.


----------



## Soundhound (May 22, 2022)

Kubrick and Herbie.  My wife worked with Ken Adam who was the production designer on Dr. Strangelove, the Kubrick exhibit that was touring around a few years ago had a section on the war room in Dr. Strangelove, just beautiful. I thought I remembered ads for Synclav with Herbie Hancock, and that led me to this, Herbie and Quincy making beats on a Fairlight -


----------

