# Combining Spaces and 2C Audio



## YoungComposer (Dec 22, 2012)

Hi,

I have 2c Audio's Aether (looking to get B2) and EWQL Spaces.
I like the warmth and stage in Spaces but I like the "life" in Aether, so I was thinking of combining them...

Atm, I am experimenting with Spaces as a Early Reflection and then adding on Aether for the tail.

Could this work? And if so, is there a proper way to use both of them or possible ways to mix the two well?

Love to hear your thoughts.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 22, 2012)

Personally, I tried all the "1 instance for ERs another for tails" kind of stuff and went back to using a Spaces instance for each orchestral section and then sent all the busses to an algorythmic reverb, in my case, the EMT Plate 140.


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## YoungComposer (Dec 22, 2012)

Ya, I was doing something similar. I was using Spaces for each section (turned down a bit) and then ran everything through Aether also turned down a bit.

I think it worked, but it is still not perfect. Much tweaking to do:/


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 22, 2012)

YoungComposer @ Sat Dec 22 said:


> Ya, I was doing something similar. I was using Spaces for each section (turned down a bit) and then ran everything through Aether also turned down a bit.
> 
> I think it worked, but it is still not perfect. Much tweaking to do:/



Nothing in music is perfect. I just think there is a law of diminishing returns that kicks in with this stuff.


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## Den (Dec 29, 2012)

*Aether new presets*

If someone using Aether 1.51 you can download new free folder.
This is completely new folder designed to sound even better!

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/8819115-post820.html


These are very different from Aether demo presets! /\~O


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## YoungComposer (Dec 29, 2012)

Thanks! I was looking for exactly this last week.


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## R_FER (Dec 29, 2012)

I'm very interested in this also, but as I use Cubase, B2 is not an option at the moment. I was wondering, if I use algorithmic just for the tail, wouldn't Breeze be enough? What would I really miss chosing Breeze instead of B2?

It's cheaper also...


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## Frankly-h (May 14, 2013)

Can I do the same with Altiverb and Valhalla?


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## alligatorlizard (May 14, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat 22 Dec said:


> YoungComposer @ Sat Dec 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Ya, I was doing something similar. I was using Spaces for each section (turned down a bit) and then ran everything through Aether also turned down a bit.
> ...



Indeed - the greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan! I went through the same process experimenting with fancy tail/early reflection setups, ended up preferring the same setup Jay described (though I'm generally using a Spaces digital impulse on the master buss).


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## Mahlon (May 16, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Dec 22 said:


> Personally, I tried all the "1 instance for ERs another for tails" kind of stuff and went back to using a Spaces instance for each orchestral section and then sent all the busses to an algorythmic reverb, in my case, the EMT Plate 140.



Jay,
On your orchestral sections, are you just using Spaces to get the instruments in a room with little Tail? i.e. Do you use something like the Acme Hall or Berkley Hall with a short reverberation to set the sections in a space and then apply your algo tail?

Or do you use a more distant space like California Hall for the specific sections? And add just a little algo tail?

Thanks,
Mahlon


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## alligatorlizard (May 19, 2013)

Can't speak for Jay, but as I use basically the same method, I'm happy to share my settings:

For MOST things I'll use the individual so-cal verbs (eg strings/brass/perc) for their respective sections ("mid stage" for winds) - another favourite is san fran hall which I find a bit lighter somehow. These days I'm setting HPF and LPF on all these - before I figured this out I was getting quite muddy mixes, or lots of high hiss. There's a good post by Nick Phoenix somewhere where he describes his favourite spaces verbs, I pretty much copied that! eg try also adding some acme b 0.8 to brass and drums to increase perceived size, add some hamburg hall to strings for more "air".

Then all is sent to a master reverb, usually hollywood digital hall 2.7s - an algorithmic reverb such as others mention may be preferable here, but I don't have such a thing currently.

If I could add a quick question to this post, is there any particular reason why it would be _better_ to use algorithmic on the master bus after putting the individual instruments thru the convolution verbs? Is it just because you can tweak the setting more on an algorithmic verb?


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## EastWest Lurker (May 19, 2013)

Pretty much +1 to what Alligator Lizard wrote (BTW, you should change that name IMHO. My daughter had one and they are nasty little creatures.)

The Spaces instances do a good job putting the submixes into a space that is cohesive., making them sound like they are in the same room but hitting it differently, as in real life.I don't put the algo verb on the 2 buss, I put it on another aux and then send all the submixes to it. It just seems to give the mix some breathing and life (I know, Piet, I am trying to put lipstick on a pig re samples)


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## hazza (May 20, 2013)

So the Spaces reverbs get sent to the master algo too?

(also currently on separate section er/tails setup)


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## Tatu (May 20, 2013)

I'm a friend of a more upfront sound, where sections are more flat and in your face, but would like to get them deeper and more traditionally positioned sometimes for that "epic trailer sound". 

I use Spaces and it's a great plugin, but I always get shivers when (whatever the plugin) the reverb becomes even slightly audible, because it sounds horribly fake and messy, especially with any pre-delay and when used with tight, fast string ostinatos. I'm using CS2, CineBrass, Albion 1 & 3, EWQLSO etc, so there's already from a bit to a lot of ER’s, space and position in them. 

So, I often lower the wet amount all the way down so it disappears to the background just to act as a soft glue or just as a transparent noise, but the downsize(?) is, that it doesn't really create any sense of depth nor spatial balance between my sections.. On my latest template, I just threw all my verbs out and use just one for the tail, but I’m still open to any suggestions and tips to get different spaces to my disposal. I don't know if that's just how my ears perceive the sound or what.. Any similar experiences?


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## alligatorlizard (May 20, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun 19 May said:


> Pretty much +1 to what Alligator Lizard wrote (BTW, you should change that name IMHO. My daughter had one and they are nasty little creatures.)



You mean there actually is such a creature as an alligatorlizard?? Ah, so there is, just googled it.... it has a long prehensile tail, up to twice the length of its body. Well they look nice enough to me - if it bit you, I'm guessing it was a Hollywood Strings user? 

btw, herpetological discussions aside, do you routinely use the inbuilt filters on your instances of Spaces? (or do you know if Nick Phoenix does in the setup he described?) I didn't do this for a long time, as I felt each impulse kind of had it's own character and timbre and I didn't want to mess this with this. I was wrong though I think, and in relation to what Tatu said, I've found using the inbuilt HPF & LPF to roll off muddines and hiss is the best way from stopping the verb from becoming to audible, without having to roll the actual send level down too much.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 20, 2013)

hazza @ Mon May 20 said:


> So the Spaces reverbs get sent to the master algo too?
> 
> (also currently on separate section er/tails setup)



Oh, no, they do not!

Its like this: 

Let us say I have 5 auxes with busses as their inputs for verbs. 4 QL Spaces instances for winds, strings, brass, and percussion are the first 4. The 5th is the sweetener algo reverb, for me, usually the UAD Plate 140.

VE Pro instance with HS has its output assigned to Bus 6 as does VE Pro instance with KH CSII has its output assigned to Bus 6. So Bus 6 is now a strings sub mix. Bus 7 has 2 sends, one going to the Spaces on Bus 2 and to the algo on Bus 5.

Similarly, VE Pro instance with HS\B has its output assigned to Bus 6 as does VE Pro instance with KH CBII has its output assigned to Bus 7. So Bus 7 is now a brass sub mix with 2 sends, one going to the Spaces on Bus 3 and also to the algo on Bus 5.

And so on.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 20, 2013)

alligatorlizard @ Mon May 20 said:


> do you routinely use the inbuilt filters on your instances of Spaces? (or do you know if Nick Phoenix does in the setup he described?) I didn't do this for a long time, as I felt each impulse kind of had it's own character and timbre and I didn't want to mess this with this. I was wrong though I think, and in relation to what Tatu said, I've found using the inbuilt HPF & LPF to roll off muddines and hiss is the best way from stopping the verb from becoming to audible, without having to roll the actual send level down too much.



No, not routinely but occasionally if I want a more "open" sound. I don't know what Nick does.


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