# Newbie questions re: Reaper, organization, and keyswitching



## Hat_Tricky (Jan 24, 2016)

Using Reaper, i've been just writing like crazy and learning new things every day. Workflow seems to improve every day by learning new shortcuts, or ways to do things. However, I have several questions!

1) Best way to organize for larger projects. Should I have multiple instances of Kontakt? I set up a 16 stereo channel one, but found that I needed more channels. Should I now just make a seperate Kontakt instance for say, every section (i.e. Kontakt instance 1 is Strings, instance 2 is all WW, etc) instead of just filling them up to 16 and having "spill-over" of instrument families?

I followed this videos basic setup for a multi-channel Kontakt instance and Reaper 



To make more then 16 stereo channels, I simply copy-pasted the first 16, then assigned them to a new 16 st. channel Kontakt insance, and it seems to work...I wasn't sure that it would to be honest, but the routing seems to be correct. Wondering if i'm shooting myself in the foot this way, setting up my "template" in this fashion. Any advice on other ways to do it are appreciated!


2) Key switches. Okay, i'm prolly gonna get laughed at but i cannot figure out how to get articulations to RECORD while i'm playing parts in. I play a part, trigger the keyswitch either by pressing the physical note, or clicking (this is awkward lol). It switches like its supposed to as I'm playing. Great. HOWEVER - when i play back what I recorded, there is no keyswitch. Furthermore, if i press a keyswitch on that channel while its playing back, it will switch. Its like it didn't record the MIDI data performance info for the keyswitch.

I dont have this problem with the mod wheel (used for expression/volume) - that info records and plays back as I played it in fine. This is constant thru Albion ONE, 8Dio Majestica and other libraries.

Thanks all!


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## Kas (Jan 24, 2016)

Reaper user here too.To try to answer your questions:

I used to have single Kontakt instances with 16 midi channels and then route each channel to a different audio for further processing but the problem was that there are 2 channels for the same sound a midi and an audio.If i use a Kontakt instance for each sound it's easier since all inserts, sends, eq are handled from the same channel.
Maybe the keyswitch was recorded and then you played it from a point after so Reaper didn't read it.You have to remember that keyswitches are midi notes so when you edit a part you have to be careful not to accidentaly move, erase, change octave etc the corresponding midi note.When you open the midi editor do you see the keyswitch note? If not you have to record it either manually with overdub or by step input.Try to place it just before the note you want to affect.


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## Hat_Tricky (Jan 25, 2016)

Kas said:


> Reaper user here too.To try to answer your questions:
> 
> I used to have single Kontakt instances with 16 midi channels and then route each channel to a different audio for further processing but the problem was that there are 2 channels for the same sound a midi and an audio.If i use a Kontakt instance for each sound it's easier since all inserts, sends, eq are handled from the same channel.
> Maybe the keyswitch was recorded and then you played it from a point after so Reaper didn't read it.You have to remember that keyswitches are midi notes so when you edit a part you have to be careful not to accidentaly move, erase, change octave etc the corresponding midi note.When you open the midi editor do you see the keyswitch note? If not you have to record it either manually with overdub or by step input.Try to place it just before the note you want to affect.



Thanks, gonna try this out re: keyswitches. Would it be in the MIDI note editor under a certain MIDI CC#? I can see the data for the mod wheel, but I'm not finding data for the keyswitches.

Re: Kontakt instances, so if you have 1 kontakt instance for every instrument, how do you manage jumping around to the instrument you want? In some projects I imagine i'll have dozens and dozens


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## tack (Jan 25, 2016)

Kas said:


> If i use a Kontakt instance for each sound it's easier since all inserts, sends, eq are handled from the same channel.


And this is what I do now. One Kontakt instance per instrument (articulations keyswitched within the same instance). Me and my template are much happier than with the other approach you mentioned (which is what I started with).

There are a couple threads on VI-Control where this was discussed at some length. (Here's the post that started it all for me.)


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## Hat_Tricky (Jan 25, 2016)

tack said:


> And this is what I do now. One Kontakt instance per instrument (articulations keyswitched within the same instance). Me and my template are much happier than with the other approach you mentioned (which is what I started with).
> 
> There are a couple threads on VI-Control where this was discussed at some length. (Here's the post that started it all for me.)



Would this be good or bad for exporting "stems" - if someone requested a "strings" stem, a "brass" stem, a "woodwinds" stem, a "solo instrument" stem and so forth? I can see how having 1 kontakt instance per section would be handy for this, but I wonder how having a seperate instance for every instrument would affect the process of organizing and exporting stems

Going to go check out that thread


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## Hat_Tricky (Jan 25, 2016)

Kas said:


> Reaper user here too.To try to answer your questions:
> 
> I used to have single Kontakt instances with 16 midi channels and then route each channel to a different audio for further processing but the problem was that there are 2 channels for the same sound a midi and an audio.If i use a Kontakt instance for each sound it's easier since all inserts, sends, eq are handled from the same channel.
> Maybe the keyswitch was recorded and then you played it from a point after so Reaper didn't read it.You have to remember that keyswitches are midi notes so when you edit a part you have to be careful not to accidentaly move, erase, change octave etc the corresponding midi note.When you open the midi editor do you see the keyswitch note? If not you have to record it either manually with overdub or by step input.Try to place it just before the note you want to affect.



Did you have a link to any videos or walkthrough for this type of setup? Also, if you dont mind, how does it make handling the eqs and sends and stuff easier? I havn't bought East West Spaces or Valhalla or any exterbal processing yet (still getting started) so i was wondering how that all works.


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## tack (Jan 25, 2016)

Hat_Tricky said:


> Would this be good or bad for exporting "stems" - if someone requested a "strings" stem, a "brass" stem, a "woodwinds" stem, a "solo instrument" stem and so forth?


Indifferent, I'd say. In either case you can configure the routing to make this possible (such as what Kas said, in which you pair up a separate audio track for each MIDI track). In fact even in the simplest case of having Kontakt output 2 channels and mixing the instruments within Kontakt, you'd probably still have a separate Kontakt instance for your instrument families anyway, which would make such a request for separate stems easily doable.


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## Hat_Tricky (Jan 25, 2016)

tack said:


> Indifferent, I'd say. In either case you can configure the routing to make this possible (such as what Kas said, in which you pair up a separate audio track for each MIDI track). In fact even in the simplest case of having Kontakt output 2 channels and mixing the instruments within Kontakt, you'd probably still have a separate Kontakt instance for your instrument families anyway, which would make such a request for separate stems easily doable.


Cool, thanks. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the routing haha! Confusing


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## tack (Jan 25, 2016)

Hat_Tricky said:


> Cool, thanks. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the routing haha! Confusing


It can be intimidating at first. Eventually something clicks and it becomes intuitive.


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## Kas (Jan 26, 2016)

Hat_Tricky said:


> Thanks, gonna try this out re: keyswitches. Would it be in the MIDI note editor under a certain MIDI CC#? I can see the data for the mod wheel, but I'm not finding data for the keyswitches.
> 
> Re: Kontakt instances, so if you have 1 kontakt instance for every instrument, how do you manage jumping around to the instrument you want? In some projects I imagine i'll have dozens and dozens



In most cases keyswitches are midi notes not midi cc#.Notes outside the playing range of the instrument.Let's say a C2 for violins staccato, a D2 for pizzicato, a E2 for sustains etc.So you have to make sure to record the KS notes just like you record the notes you hear and be able to see them in the midi editor.

About kontakt instances it doesn't matter if i have one kontakt with 16 midi channels or 16 kontakt instances.Either way I'll have the same number of tracks (16) enabling me to record.Reaper doesn't differentiate midi from audio tracks so in the first case (16 midi tracks) these will be strictly midi tracks so if i want further editing (eq, fx etc) i have to create more tracks (audio) both in reaper and inside Kontakt.With 16 kontakt instances these tracks are both midi and audio so i don't really need more tracks.Reaper routing sure it's complex but it's worth exploring it.


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## EvilDragon (Jan 26, 2016)

Kas said:


> About kontakt instances it doesn't matter if i have one kontakt with 16 midi channels or 16 kontakt instances.



RAM usage does matter. Each additional empty instance of Kontakt takes about 60-80 MB of RAM, so using 16 instances instead of one increases your RAM load anywhere from 900-1200 MB... That's for just existing and doing nothing else!


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## Kas (Jan 26, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> RAM usage does matter. Each additional empty instance of Kontakt takes about 60-80 MB of RAM, so using 16 instances instead of one increases your RAM load anywhere from 900-1200 MB... That's for just existing and doing nothing else!



Yes, unfortunately this is a drawback.Still i prefer this for easier mixing and todays computers with lots of RAM are more capable of handling this. There's something else i noticed. CPU heavy instruments (SM Brass or legato multi-mic intstruments) behave better in different instances than when housed under one instance.I don't know why.
Of course when i can i conserve RAM.Percussion instruments use the same Kontakt in my template.


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## Hat_Tricky (Jan 26, 2016)

Whelp, updates! Thanks to everyone for the help. I seem to be able to record keyswitches now, although i've discovered i need an 88 key keyboard. Mine will only octave shift +2 or -2 octaves - not enough to get to the low keys reserved for keyswitches. Clicking on them doens't record automation, and reasigning them for every patch is just obnoxious (but that will have to do for now haha)

I might get an ipad and TouchOSC, or a Korg Nanocontrol maybe. Or perhaps a serperate keyboard (mins has a joystick, and i HATE using it in place of a modwheel) like a Novation MIDI controller with a real mod wheel.

As for the routing, I am lost as to how to get a single kontakt instance per instrument. When i create new tracks in reaper, they default to audio and i feel extremely stupid for not being able to get them route from kontakt for MIDI control. I guess i just don't understand the routing system for that kind of setup - the 2 tracks per instrument makes sense to me (MIDI track for triggering samples, sending back the sound to the audio track. But i definetely see how having ONE track per instrument could be simpler, save space on the score (orchestral hybrid adds up quick) and according to ppl in this thread easier for external effects.

Can anyone elaborate on how its easier this way for effects? I dont own any yet (looking at buying Valhalla or Spaces, and I still have to do research on what kind of compression, EQs, etc i'll need for orchestral, hybrid orchestral, and rock/pop) so I have no idea how that makes it easier. I'm assuming it has something to do with bussing (i.e. all woodwinds might go to a certain EQ, brass to a whole other one?


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## tack (Jan 26, 2016)

Hat_Tricky said:


> As for the routing, I am lost as to how to get a single kontakt instance per instrument. When i create new tracks in reaper, they default to audio and i feel extremely stupid for not being able to get them route from kontakt for MIDI control. I guess i just don't understand the routing system for that kind of setup - the 2 tracks per instrument makes sense to me (MIDI track for triggering samples, sending back the sound to the audio track.


If you find the 2 tracks per instrument approach simpler, you're definitely not stupid, don't worry about that. 

Here is a quick video to get you started. It shows the beginnings of what an orchestral template might look like when using a separate Kontakt instance per instrument. Note how easy it is to add instruments this way: just duplicate the track and swap out your Kontakt patch. No routing worries.



Hat_Tricky said:


> Can anyone elaborate on how its easier this way for effects?


Assuming you're coming from a routing setup where each instrument has two tracks (one MIDI and one audio), then it's not easier until you need to do automation. When I was running with the dual track approach, I wanted my TCP to only have MIDI tracks, and my MCP to only have audio tracks. But the moment I wanted to do some FX automation (say some spatial positioning adjustments, or EQ tweaks), I needed to pull in the audio track into the TCP just so I could enable the relevant envelope lanes. This got cluttered and ugly.

With the single Kontakt instance per track approach, MIDI and audio share the same track. So it becomes a lot cleaner to manage envelopes for automation.


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## Hat_Tricky (Jan 26, 2016)

tack said:


> If you find the 2 tracks per instrument approach simpler, you're definitely not stupid, don't worry about that.
> 
> Here is a quick video to get you started. It shows the beginnings of what an orchestral template might look like when using a separate Kontakt instance per instrument. Note how easy it is to add instruments this way: just duplicate the track and swap out your Kontakt patch. No routing worries.
> 
> ...



Thanks! Gonna whip up a chai tea and watch that video, excited to try out a new setup!


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## tack (Jan 27, 2016)

Hat_Tricky said:


> Thanks! Gonna whip up a chai tea and watch that video, excited to try out a new setup!


It's only 2 minutes long. It'll take you longer to make your chai tea than to watch it. :D


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## tack (Jan 27, 2016)

I wonder who would bother to thumbs down the video. "Fuck you for taking the time to do a quick example screencast!" At least explain why, otherwise you're just another Youtube douche.


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## Lannister (Jan 27, 2016)

tack said:


> I wonder who would bother to thumbs down the video. "Fuck you for taking the time to do a quick example screencast!" At least explain why, otherwise you're just another Youtube douche.



Not enough bling, and you didn't spend 15 minutes waffling on about something that has nothing to do with what you intended to show in the first place... I assume.  Thumbs downing a to-the-point short tut is just petty.


I do have a question about your REAPER theme. Is it a modified WT_Imperial theme? I like the look of the original but hate the TCP folder look, while yours are nicely nested.


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## tack (Jan 27, 2016)

Lannister said:


> Not enough bling, and you didn't spend 15 minutes waffling on about something that has nothing to do with what you intended to show in the first place... I assume.


The irony is that waffling on before getting to the point is something I'm normally at risk of doing. 



Lannister said:


> I do have a question about your REAPER theme. Is it a modified WT_Imperial theme? I like the look of the original but hate the TCP folder look, while yours are nicely nested.


Indeed, it's actually Folder WT Imperial, which I've further hacked to make the MIDI editor and other things darker. It still needs a bit of refinement -- themeing in REAPER is a bit like playing whack-a-mole: you make one area look just right, and suddenly a different area looks like ass -- but you're https://helix.urandom.ca/t/FolderWT_Imperial_Darker.ReaperThemeZip (welcome to try it).


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## Lannister (Jan 28, 2016)

tack said:


> Indeed, it's actually Folder WT Imperial, which I've further hacked to make the MIDI editor and other things darker. It still needs a bit of refinement -- themeing in REAPER is a bit like playing whack-a-mole: you make one area look just right, and suddenly a different area looks like ass -- but you're https://helix.urandom.ca/t/FolderWT_Imperial_Darker.ReaperThemeZip (welcome to try it).



Many thanks, looks great!


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## Hat_Tricky (Jan 28, 2016)

tack said:


> It's only 2 minutes long. It'll take you longer to make your chai tea than to watch it. :D



haha yeah i didn't realize it was short and you made it! Thanks, that's awesome. I am currently redoing all my templates (yuck)

thanks again!


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