# Your answer for real-time automated arranging... INTUITION.



## gregjazz (Aug 13, 2013)

Usually when I'm sequencing strings, brass, winds, or other ensembles--be it for orchestral work or rock/pop productions--the process involves either writing each track individually, or separating out notes into the MIDI channels associated with each instruments in the ensemble. Any way you approach it, you're faced with the task of dealing with each instrument on a separate MIDI channel. When inspiration is on my side, the last thing I want is to deal with technicalities.

Something I've always dreamed of was a solution that would just let me play notes and chords on my keyboard and automatically take care of arranging the notes for the ensemble I'm writing for.

Over the last few years I've been working on adding interpretive technology to sample libraries. I won't get into the nitty-gritty, but essentially it involves designing and implementing artificial intelligence within the sample library's scripting in order to make decisions. For example, the poly legato that I scripted in orchestral libraries such as Cinesamples' CineBrass and CineWinds, or the string/fret selection engine in libraries like Evolution Electric Bass Rick, Evolution Electric Guitar Strawberry, and Evolution Acoustic Guitar Steel Strings. An added bonus is that there's nothing random about the decision making, so it yields the same results every time. It also is able to draw from a large amount of data in order to make intelligent decisions.

Now that these products are out in the market and affirmed by the positive comments from users, I'm proud to present the culmination of this technology in the form of a universal multiscript: INTUITION.

INTUITION is the answer to my dream for a tool that automatically arranges notes and chords for any ensemble. Designed for Kontakt 5 (it uses scripting features that aren't available in Kontakt 4), this multiscript can work with any sample libraries you want. Simply add the instruments you have in your ensemble, corresponding to the sample libraries you have loaded in Kontakt, and you're ready to go!

INTUITION includes definitions for a large collection of orchestral instruments, although you can always use a custom instrument setting, too. There are also options to globally pass-through notes that are out of range and MIDI CC messages. That way you can still access keyswitches in libraries, or control MIDI CCs all at once (e.g. mod wheel dynamics).





Right now we're beta testing INTUITION, getting the user documentation together (and videos!), and all those other final touches.

Be sure to LIKE the Orange Tree Samples Facebook page to keep updated on the progress (and release) of INTUITION: http://www.facebook.com/orangetreesamples


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## chimuelo (Aug 13, 2013)

Man Or Myth..................Gregjazz.

This is awesome and I would love to try it since I too love to play, and try and make the tracks a take (as in live/realtime) as best I can since editing just turns me into techno geek, which interferes in culminationg ideas for me.

Please keep customers on your email lost updated as I do not Tweet, or use Facebook.

Contact with my own species has always been a disappointment.
Captain Nemo in 20,000 Leagues Beneath The Sea by Jules Verne, 1870.


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## Aakaash Rao (Aug 13, 2013)

Very interesting - can't wait to hear more!


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## gregjazz (Aug 13, 2013)

chimuelo @ Tue Aug 13 said:


> Please keep customers on your email lost updated as I do not Tweet, or use Facebook.


Definitely--and always feel free to PM or email me for status updates, and whatever. Still laying out plans for the big percussion library! 

The reason I use Facebook with Orange Tree Samples is just because it's a little less formal--I can send out updates more often than would be tolerable through email. Also, it's really nice to be able to interact with people through the page, so that it's not a one-sided form of communication either.


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## Saxer (Aug 14, 2013)

superb idea! 

i always wanted to have something like that in my daw to separate chords into lines for arranging and notating. i was asking developers for years for that but they never figured out what i wanted. if you never write polyphonic sections you will never get it. so it's probably like dimension brass but for all kontakt instruments?

it's a pitty not to get the separation out of kontakt for notation. but it changes every kontakt library (like sable) to an auto-divisi library. great!


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## DynamicK (Aug 14, 2013)

Looks interesting. Looking forward to the demos and vids. Will this only use one multiscript slot, as I have up to 3 instances of *Mind Control* running in some multis?


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## mk282 (Aug 14, 2013)

Saxer @ 14.8.2013 said:


> it's a pitty not to get the separation out of kontakt for notation. but it changes every kontakt library (like sable) to an auto-divisi library. great!



It's not impossible. Just enable "scripted MIDI notes" in "Send MIDI to outside world" in Options->Engine, and Kontakt will send scripted MIDI events to its MIDI output, which you can then capture in your DAW.


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## Saxer (Aug 14, 2013)

mk282 @ 14.8.2013 said:


> Saxer @ 14.8.2013 said:
> 
> 
> > it's a pitty not to get the separation out of kontakt for notation. but it changes every kontakt library (like sable) to an auto-divisi library. great!
> ...


ouh, that sounds interesting! didn't know things like that are possible in kontakt!


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## FriFlo (Aug 14, 2013)

Interesting! I did something like that with Max MSP, so that I can use it for any sample library in conjunction with tracks being recorded like that in Cubase. Very much looking forwards on seeing how this works. If you have different instruments and want to be able to control which ones are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, ... position in the voicing, the best way I found is to have a trigger start the first note ons, as soon as the number of voices all arrived. IMO the only way to truly have control over voicing ...


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## FriFlo (Aug 14, 2013)

Do you include polyphonic aftertouch by the way? Maybe look into my keyboard recommendations ...
http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 1c5d2714b7


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## mk282 (Aug 14, 2013)

Saxer @ 14.8.2013 said:


> mk282 @ 14.8.2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Saxer @ 14.8.2013 said:
> ...



It was in the manual... Lots of people don't read manuals today...


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## gregjazz (Aug 14, 2013)

Sorry to geek out for a minute, but I wanted to talk about one of the cool features I've implemented in INTUITION.

The instrument database, which has all the instrument categories and names, ranges, etc., is *completely dynamic*. That means that if it gets updated, all your old projects will automatically get the updated instrument database without affecting your project.

So for example, if--by popular demand--I add a definition for the Bass Cacklephone, it will not only appear as an option in your new projects, but in all your old projects as well!

In the case that I update the ranges of an instrument--for example, thanks to an incredible scientific discovery, a new valve gets added to the Bass Cacklephone that allows it to play all the way down to G#-2--that change _won't_ get automatically updated in your old projects, since it would affect how the instruments are automatically arranged. Instead, there's an option in the settings to reload all the information from the databases, which will update factors that would affect your old projects.


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## JohannesR (Aug 14, 2013)

I am really looking forward to this one, Greg.

I hope it works well with the instruments from Sample Modeling. It annoys me that it is so cumbersome to check harmonies when working with monophonic VIs.


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## gregjazz (Aug 16, 2013)

The cool part is that it will work with any sample library you have. I'm planning on releasing two versions.

First, a "standard" version that has generic instrument definitions (of course, you also have the ability to define your own custom instrument ranges as well).

Later on, I'll release a "pro" version that includes definitions for sample libraries and their patches. That way you instantly have definitions specifically for libraries like LASS, BWW, Cinematic Strings, Spitfire libraries, etc.


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## A.G (Aug 17, 2013)

> An added bonus is that there's nothing random about the decision making, so it yields the same results every time. It also is able to draw from a large amount of data in order to make intelligent decisions.


Hi Greg,

It's nice to hear that some one else is working on ideas which match my ones :D .
Currently, I'm finishing my newest "Intelligent Poly Legato" script for my upcoming ORPHEUS Grand Choral. It is some kind of Voice Auto Arranger System (VAAS).
The difference is that my script is designed for NKI (it is not Multi). As you said nothing random happens... The midi chord (polyphony) including all voice intervals are analyzed in depth before you play the next note, so the script gets the best "musical" decision and arranges the voices, poly legato lines, makes smart divisi etc, like a composer. In my scenario its is a Bulgarian women choir where I need to control three main voice choir groups Voice 1 (Sopranos), Voice 2 and Voice 3 (lower)were each voice group has been natively recorded. Another powerful feature in the VAAS is the smart Unison which calls different samples (voices) so you can play natural realistic Choir Unison for the music parts where you need that etc.

So I see your idea regarding the Multi script - Great!
Good luck in that project!
Regards,

Ivan


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## gregjazz (Aug 17, 2013)

A.G @ Sat Aug 17 said:


> It's nice to hear that some one else is working on ideas which match my ones :D


Yup, I think it's only a matter of time before intelligent divisi and polyphonic legato becomes the standard for all ensemble-based libraries. The cool part about the system I've come up with divisi/poly legato is that there isn't any limit to the number of polyphonic "voices" you can have, all using a very low amount of CPU power, too. Of course, it's a lot easier to implement the system on an instrument level--multiscripts are trickier due to their limitations (e.g. no polyphonic variables, etc.). It might be nice if I came up with an instrument script that other developers could license...


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 17, 2013)

This looks great, Gregg. Particularly interested in applying it to Broadway Big Band.


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## gregjazz (Aug 17, 2013)

Thanks! I'll put together a video showing it in operation soon. It's pretty easy and quick to set up ensembles!


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## A.G (Aug 17, 2013)

A.G @ Sat Aug 17 said:


> The cool part about the system I've come up with divisi/poly legato is that there isn't any limit to the number of polyphonic "voices" you can have, all using a very low amount of CPU power, too. Of course, it's a lot easier to implement the system on an instrument level--multiscripts are trickier due to their limitations (e.g. no polyphonic variables, etc.).



The VAAS technology (I'm developing at the moment) is not based on any previous world standard ensemble-based one as a whole. There isn't any limit to the number of polyphonic "voices" you can have as well, and the CPU does not detect any %...
VAAS does not use any polyphonic variables etc so it is quite easy to implement it into a Multi script.


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 17, 2013)

A.G - perhaps a different thread for your own promotions? This is in Commercial Annoucements.

Looking forward to the release, Greg!


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## A.G (Aug 17, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Aug 17 said:


> A.G - perhaps a different thread for your own promotions?


There is no promotion in my reply - just a friendly comment of a person who supports the same idea and wants to comment some personal experience about that! The forum idea is to share our knowledge data base, developments etc. If you track my replies above I wished "Good luck" to the Greg's project!
Regards,

A.G


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## Echoes in the Attic (Sep 17, 2013)

Oh man,

If this thing lets me use my LASS sections to get a polyphonic playing legato behavior like CineBrass, I will be thrilled! I've never loved how LASS is scripted for poly legato, I often trigger notes I don't mean to. Whereas the Cinesamples legato is perfect and just seems to read my mind!

Man, the possibilities of this with Sample Modeling, or even with different sections of the Albion series... very exciting!


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## gregjazz (Sep 17, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Sep 17 said:


> If this thing lets me use my LASS sections to get a polyphonic playing legato behavior like CineBrass, I will be thrilled! I've never loved how LASS is scripted for poly legato, I often trigger notes I don't mean to. Whereas the Cinesamples legato is perfect and just seems to read my mind!


It will work with LASS, though you would need a separate instrument part in INTUITION for each voice. So if you want to take a legato patch and turn it into something that can split into two voices, you'll need to make two instrument parts in INTUITION, assigned to two instances of the patch. That's based on the patch being completely monophonic, of course. If it's polyphonic, you can have a single instrument part, but just set the ensemble size to the number of voices you want it to be able to divisi into.

I wrote the script for the polyphonic legato for CineBrass / CineWinds, so this uses a very similar approach.


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## chimuelo (Sep 17, 2013)

I'll check it tomorrow..... o-[][]-o


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## Echoes in the Attic (Sep 17, 2013)

gregjazz @ Tue Sep 17 said:


> Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Sep 17 said:
> 
> 
> > If this thing lets me use my LASS sections to get a polyphonic playing legato behavior like CineBrass, I will be thrilled! I've never loved how LASS is scripted for poly legato, I often trigger notes I don't mean to. Whereas the Cinesamples legato is perfect and just seems to read my mind!
> ...



This is already how LASS was designed. For each string part there 3 completely separate ensembles. A half sized one and two quarter sized ones, plus a couple solos. LASS is set up to play these together with auto divisi. I just don't love how the auto divisi responds with legato. It's ok but I get unintended things happening.

Question is, with Intuition, does it stack the voices when you play one note and then split them when you play a chord (as would happen in reality)? Ie. if you have three ensemble parts and you play one nite, will all three play, and then when you play a chord, it splits them up? Hope so


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## gregjazz (Sep 17, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Sep 17 said:


> This is already how LASS was designed. For each string part there 3 completely separate ensembles. A half sized one and two quarter sized ones, plus a couple solos. LASS is set up to play these together with auto divisi. I just don't love how the auto divisi responds with legato. It's ok but I get unintended things happening.


The main thing with INTUITION is to allow you to mix and match libraries, automatically arranging between any variety of sample libraries you have in your ensemble.

The idea started out with having a simple and intuitive way to play chords and have the notes get automatically arranged to any ensemble of instruments you set up, though over time additional features were added to make the script cover more ground than just that.



Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Sep 17 said:


> Question is, with Intuition, does it stack the voices when you play one note and then split them when you play a chord (as would happen in reality)? Ie. if you have three ensemble parts and you play one nite, will all three play, and then when you play a chord, it splits them up? Hope so


I'm still working on it, but that's the idea behind the "unison mode" option. When enabled, pressing a single note will cause all the instrument parts to play that note in unison, but playing multiple notes will cause them to split up as necessary. Otherwise (with the "unison mode" disabled), pressing a single note will trigger a single instrument.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Sep 18, 2013)

gregjazz @ Tue Sep 17 said:


> Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Sep 17 said:
> 
> 
> > This is already how LASS was designed. For each string part there 3 completely separate ensembles. A half sized one and two quarter sized ones, plus a couple solos. LASS is set up to play these together with auto divisi. I just don't love how the auto divisi responds with legato. It's ok but I get unintended things happening.
> ...



Cool. I was hoping this was going to be the big thing released today. Any ETA when this is coming?


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## gregjazz (Sep 18, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> Cool. I was hoping this was going to be the big thing released today. Any ETA when this is coming?


The beta testers are working with it, and I have a list of things to work on. For example, there are a few things I need to do to make the installation process more straight-forward. Multiscripts are always tricky that way, since they don't support those compact resource files that Kontakt instruments use. The other main thing I need to work on is the unison mode. It's still difficult to tell when it'll be done--oh the joys of being a perfectionist.


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## vicontrolu (Oct 15, 2013)

what happened to this? sounded interesting


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## Ed (Oct 15, 2013)

Just so you know I might be interested in this, but you'd have to make a super idiots guide to how to use or I'm just bewildered. I bet others are like that too


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## vicontrolu (Oct 15, 2013)

I´d be happy if it just lowers the volume of the kontakt instrumet when it detects polyphony. The higher the voices, the more the volume drops.

I take the oportunity to ask to other members if there´s already something like this.


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## gregjazz (Oct 15, 2013)

vicontrolu @ Tue Oct 15 said:


> what happened to this? sounded interesting


I'm still working on INTUITION, it just got put on pause while I work on the http://www.orangetreesamples.com/gb/ (Orange Tree Samples group buy sale) that's currently happening.

There are two modes of operation in INTUITION:

1. One instrument at a time: arrange incoming notes to their most-suited instruments.

2. All instruments play at once: arrange all instruments at once.

They're different approaches. The first option essentially will only trigger one instrument per note. The second option will trigger ALL the instruments at once, but then split them to multiple notes (if you're holding multiple notes, otherwise they'll play in unison).


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## The Darris (Nov 17, 2013)

Hey Greg, any updates on this?


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## gregjazz (Nov 17, 2013)

I have an early version on the beta forum, but there are a few things I need to work on:

*1.* Simplify the installation process so that it's organized into its own folders. This will make the installation easier as well as more organized.

*2.* Rework the "unison" mode. Right now it just duplicates all the instruments to each single note, but I'd like it to intelligently split the instruments when playing several notes. It's the opposite approach as the normal play mode.

Just to summarize those two play modes:

- The default mode plays a single instrument per note, choosing the most suitable instrument based on which instruments you have loaded as well as any other notes you might be playing.

- The "unison" mode is different because if you play a single note, it will have all the instruments play that note in unison. Imagine a brass section that plays unison lines as well as lines with harmony divided among the instruments.

I'm hoping to make more progress on INTUITION this week. I was messing around with it in Albion two days ago, and it worked really well for combining the patches into single ensemble patches that actually divide the notes and chords up between the instruments rather than just doubling all the notes (as you'd get with any standard Kontakt ensemble multi).


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## gregjazz (Nov 17, 2013)

I forgot to mention, but I've also included the ability to pass any CCs globally. That way you could have CC1 (mod wheel) control ALL the instruments in your ensemble, which is useful if they use the mod wheel to control dynamics.

There's also an "out-of-range pass-through", which basically passes any note that's out of your ensembles range to all the instruments. This is specifically for triggering keyswitches. That way if your instruments use the same keys for keyswitches, you can trigger all of them at once.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Nov 17, 2013)

Man I can't wait for this thing.

Since it's effectively splitting up chords and telling each ensemble to play a single note at a time, I guess this means that you could use monophonic legato ensembles together to create a polyphonic instrument eh? For example, the Albion legatos allow only a single note at a time, or the sample modelling stuff. So I could for example layer 4 sample modelling instruments and then be able to play 4 note chords since each one is still only playing one note at a time?

Wow this will open up a world of new polyphonic instruments made of combinations of monophonic instruments. How cool will that be.


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## Jordan Gagne (Nov 17, 2013)

I have no idea how this will work, but it sounds pretty awesome.


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## gregjazz (Nov 17, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Sun Nov 17 said:


> Since it's effectively splitting up chords and telling each ensemble to play a single note at a time, I guess this means that you could use monophonic legato ensembles together to create a polyphonic instrument eh? For example, the Albion legatos allow only a single note at a time, or the sample modelling stuff. So I could for example layer 4 sample modelling instruments and then be able to play 4 note chords since each one is still only playing one note at a time?


Yes, exactly! If there's a sample library that doesn't have polyphonic legato, you could use Intuition to give it polyphonic legato by loading as many instances of the patch that you need, and then just mirror that in the ensemble setup in Intuition. Currently, you have to increase the polyphony setting for each instrument to 2 voices rather than 1 in order to allow for the overlapping notes necessary to trigger legato in those instruments.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Nov 18, 2013)

So with the option to have all ensembles play over a single note, then I would imagine there would some rule based system to dictate how it splits up the voices when more than one note is played but less than the total number of voices? So for example if you have 4 ensembles and you play one note, all four play. Then if you have two notes play, it would split them 2 ensembles on each note. Then with a three note chord, it would double up one note and play separate ensembles on each of the other notes.

So I guess you'd need to specify the note preference from high to low so it knows how to allocate the voices?


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## tmm (Nov 18, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Sun Nov 17 said:


> For example, the Albion legatos allow only a single note at a time,



Technically speaking, Albion does in-fact have polyphonic legato, up to 4 notes.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Nov 18, 2013)

tmm @ Mon Nov 18 said:


> Echoes in the Attic @ Sun Nov 17 said:
> 
> 
> > For example, the Albion legatos allow only a single note at a time,
> ...



Ya but not useable in real-time. It's split up by velocity.


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## gregjazz (Nov 18, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Mon Nov 18 said:


> So with the option to have all ensembles play over a single note, then I would imagine there would some rule based system to dictate how it splits up the voices when more than one note is played but less than the total number of voices? So for example if you have 4 ensembles and you play one note, all four play. Then if you have two notes play, it would split them 2 ensembles on each note. Then with a three note chord, it would double up one note and play separate ensembles on each of the other notes.
> 
> So I guess you'd need to specify the note preference from high to low so it knows how to allocate the voices?


Yes--all the rules for how things get split are built-in to Intuition. The initial "standard" release will use generic definitions for instruments, but I've also left room to release a "pro" version that will have definitions for specific libraries out there (probably mostly orchestral).


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## The Darris (Nov 18, 2013)

Thanks for the update Greg. I am really looking forward to this script. On a side note, what does one have to do to become an elite member of this 'beta forum' you speak of?


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## Jordan Gagne (Nov 20, 2013)

Greg, would intuition be able to create a Spitfire Low Brass multi that would allow the Tuba/CB Trombone/Cimbassi to play as an ensemble and then divide out for divisi harmonies? That would be incredible.

As someone who is a huge Spitfire fanboy but who doesn't really like to program each instrument of an ensemble individually, this would be a major incentive to check out Spitfire Low brass.


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## gregjazz (Nov 20, 2013)

Jordan Gagne @ Wed Nov 20 said:


> Greg, would intuition be able to create a Spitfire Low Brass multi that would allow the Tuba/CB Trombone/Cimbassi to play as an ensemble and then divide out for divisi harmonies? That would be incredible.


Yes, in fact that's one of the main reasons (well not the Tuba/CB Trombone/Cimbassi specifically) I set out creating the Intuition multiscript.


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## korgscrew (Nov 20, 2013)

Greg! Any time scale yet?


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## EwigWanderer (Nov 20, 2013)

korgscrew @ 21st November 2013 said:


> Greg! Any time scale yet?



+1

Maybe before christmas?


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## korgscrew (Nov 20, 2013)

EwigWanderer @ Thu Nov 21 said:


> korgscrew @ 21st November 2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Greg! Any time scale yet?
> ...



Here's hoping, but I doubt it :| 

Ever since getting cine brass, I've wanted all my libraries to have that clever polyphonic legato like they have. So easy to use, and it sounds great!


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## gregjazz (Nov 20, 2013)

korgscrew @ Wed Nov 20 said:


> Greg! Any time scale yet?


It all hinges on how long it takes me to finish the unison arranging mode. I will release the standard version first, and then the pro version (with the library-specific patches) afterwards. I might actually make a pre-Christmas release, it just depends on how things go with the beta testing, etc.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Nov 20, 2013)

korgscrew @ Wed Nov 20 said:


> Ever since getting cine brass, I've wanted all my libraries to have that clever polyphonic legato like they have. So easy to use, and it sounds great!



Me too. That's why I'm so excited about this. The Cinesamples poly legato (which I understand Greg programmed) just works so well I never have to think about it. Being able to have that but with different ensemble to play divisi, I think, will be incredibly useful.


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## gregjazz (Nov 20, 2013)

Here's one thing that I just wanted to double-check with you guys in terms of how Intuition works.

Right now I leave the actual legato element up to the instruments themselves. Intuition just routes the incoming notes. So if the instrument has legato, Intuition will work with that--both retrigger (where releasing a note will return back to any other held notes) and non-retrigger legato.

But the main thing is that Intuition itself won't try to handle legato, starting and stopping notes. I figured this was the best approach, since every library has a different approach to how legato works, especially in terms of the time thresholds needed, re-attack legato (triggering the same note right after releasing it), etc.

It just occurred to me that you could also use Intuition to create ensembles from solo instruments--for example, loading a bunch of the various trumpets included in Sample Modeling's The Trumpet in order to create an ensemble that has true divisi--play a single note and they play in unison, but play a chord and they intelligently split up.

I'm definitely planning on using Intuition with all the sectional libraries I have, making playing a string or brass section playable in real-time, for example. I know I don't have to tell you this, but the tone just way different when you have the violin, viola, cello, and bass sections arranging intelligently rather than using a generic "string ensemble" patch.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Nov 20, 2013)

gregjazz @ Thu Nov 21 said:


> It just occurred to me that you could also use Intuition to create ensembles from solo instruments--for example, loading a bunch of the various trumpets included in Sample Modeling's The Trumpet in order to create an ensemble that has true divisi--play a single note and they play in unison, but play a chord and they intelligently split up.



That just occurred to you? The sample modeling instruments are one of the ones I'm most looking forward to using with this! Like you said, it provides enough solo instruments that you can have a division ensemble. 

And yeah I figured the legato would have to be left to the instruments, but he trick is in knowing which notes the send to which instruments. Based on how the cinesamples notes seem to magically chose the right ones, I'm hoping this will too!


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## gregjazz (Nov 20, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Wed Nov 20 said:


> That just occurred to you? The sample modeling instruments are one of the ones I'm most looking forward to using with this! Like you said, it provides enough solo instruments that you can have a division ensemble.


The Sample Modeling ones are what came to mind, since (if I remember correctly) it includes extra patches with slightly different tones--that way you can have multiple trumpets playing the same note with slight tonal variation between them. I think the Garritan Stradivari violin library also has additional patches for variation--or at least a few extra options for the body impulses. I don't know of too many other Kontakt sample libraries that include extra patches like that, but it would be very useful if you're building an ensemble from solo instruments.


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## The Darris (Nov 20, 2013)

Everything about this sounds amazing. Can't wait!!


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## Echoes in the Attic (Nov 20, 2013)

gregjazz @ Thu Nov 21 said:


> Echoes in the Attic @ Wed Nov 20 said:
> 
> 
> > That just occurred to you? The sample modeling instruments are one of the ones I'm most looking forward to using with this! Like you said, it provides enough solo instruments that you can have a division ensemble.
> ...



It will also probably work with the embertone violin and cello since both have an ensemble function for unison that creates slight variation. So you could pick a different one for each solo divisi with intuition.


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 21, 2013)

Really looking forward to this, Greg. What's your current ETA?


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## gregjazz (Nov 21, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Thu Nov 21 said:


> Really looking forward to this, Greg. What's your current ETA?


I think it would take a solid 1-2 weeks of work to get the unison mode finalized. After that we'll need to test it thoroughly. Multiscripts work differently in terms of polyphonic events than normal instrument scripts do--specifically, they're more limited. So we'll need to make sure that everything plays reliably. Then I'll write the documentation and put together some video tutorials. It's quick and easy to set up ensembles, but I just want to make sure everything is explained clearly.

I do have 3-4 other Orange Tree Samples sample libraries in various stages of development, so it's all about juggling them right now.

If anybody's interested, I could put together a quick video showing Intuition's interface so you can get a better idea of its capabilities.


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## ScoringFilm (Nov 22, 2013)

gregjazz @ 22/11/2013 said:


> If anybody's interested, I could put together a quick video showing Intuition's interface so you can get a better idea of its capabilities.



That would be useful Greg; looking forward to this btw!

Justin


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 22, 2013)

ScoringFilm @ Fri Nov 22 said:


> gregjazz @ 22/11/2013 said:
> 
> 
> > If anybody's interested, I could put together a quick video showing Intuition's interface so you can get a better idea of its capabilities.
> ...



+1


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## gregjazz (Nov 22, 2013)

ScoringFilm @ Fri Nov 22 said:


> gregjazz @ 22/11/2013 said:
> 
> 
> > If anybody's interested, I could put together a quick video showing Intuition's interface so you can get a better idea of its capabilities.
> ...


Here's a video of Intuition that I made just for you guys:


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 22, 2013)

Good stuff, Greg, like the UI. Really keen (in the fullness of time!) to see Intuition tackling something like a rack of Broadway Big Band.


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## ScoringFilm (Nov 22, 2013)

Nice; much better than my poor attempt!

J


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## dcd111 (Nov 22, 2013)

gregjazz @ Fri 22 Nov said:


> ...
> Here's a video of Intuition that I made just for you guys:
> ...


Just watched the video, I am really looking forward to when Intuition is released.

Just one question, though: From the video, it seems the "ensemble size" sets the number of maximum notes that a particular instrument can be sent simultaneously? I actually thought that option was going to set the number of notes that should be playing simultaneously across all instruments.

So, let's say I have four similar instruments in a section set up, like a big band trumpet section, or a trombone section. Will it be possible to tell Intuition that I want every instrument to play even when there is only a three note chord, so that some note or notes will be forced to be duplicated?


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## gregjazz (Nov 22, 2013)

dcd111 @ Fri Nov 22 said:


> Just one question, though: From the video, it seems the "ensemble size" sets the number of maximum notes that a particular instrument can be sent simultaneously?


Yes, exactly.



dcd111 @ Fri Nov 22 said:


> I actually thought that option was going to set the number of notes that should be playing simultaneously across all instruments.
> 
> So, let's say I have four similar instruments in a section set up, like a big band trumpet section, or a trombone section. Will it be possible to tell Intuition that I want every instrument to play even when there is only a three note chord, so that some note or notes will be forced to be duplicated?


That's the idea behind the "unison mode" option. That would make it so that if you play a single note, rather than the note triggering only one instrument, it would have all the instruments available play in unison on that single note--and only split up if you play more than one note at once.


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## Ben H (Nov 23, 2013)

EDIT


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 24, 2013)

Ben H @ Sun Nov 24 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Sun Aug 18 said:
> 
> 
> > This looks great, Gregg. Particularly interested in applying it to Broadway Big Band.
> ...



Aye, but Yuval originally promised this back in Janurary and no-one has heard a peep from him since (I've contacted him directly, but nada). I'd put money on Intuition appearing first, possibly by a very long margin.

Of course BBB was just an example anyway. Any solo-instrument library would be of great interest - Sample Modelling or Berlin Winds perhaps.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Nov 25, 2013)

gregjazz @ Fri Nov 22 said:


> ScoringFilm @ Fri Nov 22 said:
> 
> 
> > gregjazz @ 22/11/2013 said:
> ...




Nice! Looking forward to legato examples.


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## gregjazz (Nov 25, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Mon Nov 25 said:


> Nice! Looking forward to legato examples.


It works well for multiple voice counterpoint. Maybe I could try loading two or more instances of The Trumpet to demonstrate legato with each instance. When I've finished the unison mode in the script, I'll definitely have to make a demonstration video for that.


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## KingIdiot (Nov 26, 2013)

Hey Greg,

Any thoughts/ideas on how this will work with guitar tracking. I generally hate my VG setup, but I've been getting back into using Melodyne to track some guitar. The thing with guitar playing, especially pick playing, the notes come out as a "Sweep" or very fast arpeggio, even with basicchords sometimes

I'm just curious how that will affect the poly tracking.

Totally into this though. Looks fun and cool to have for quick layouts and composing, especially for shit piano players like me.


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## gregjazz (Nov 26, 2013)

KingIdiot @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> The thing with guitar playing, especially pick playing, the notes come out as a "Sweep" or very fast arpeggio, even with basicchords sometimes


I know what you mean in terms of the little ghost notes that MIDI guitars (or audio>MIDI conversion) can result in. It would mainly only affect the arranging system if there's overlap in those artifacts--if so, it could throw off the system knowing which voices are available for use and which are being used. Of course, you can always increase the number of voices for each instrument just to give yourself more leeway if that happens.


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## Udo (Nov 26, 2013)

Ben H @ Sun Nov 24 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Sun Aug 18 said:
> 
> 
> > This looks great, Gregg. Particularly interested in applying it to Broadway Big Band.
> ...


I emailed Yuval in April or May. He said it was very close, but wouldn't announce it until it was ready to ship. He got burned when the original BBB ended up being delayed after it had been announced.

Anyway, INTUITION looks interesting and I'll keep an eye on it.


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## Eric (Nov 30, 2013)

I'm really looking forward to Intuition - definitely planning to purchase.


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## gregjazz (Nov 30, 2013)

The cool part about Intuition's system is that you can play complex polyphonic passages with plenty of counterpoint and whatnot, rather than being restricted to ONLY chordal playing. Of course, I might explore having multiple "play modes" that are geared towards different styles, but we'll see...


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## Eric (Dec 1, 2013)

FWIW, my usual style of live string section play (having grown up with ROMplers and being accustomed to breaking rules), is to vary my number of voices from as few as one to as many as six or even seven. I'm sure in the use of this software, I could adjust to keeping within the rules if necessary, but I'd love to be able to retain my style... to have software give me big unisons on 1 or 2 note moments, to rationally assign my lowest voice and highest notes to cello (or bass) and violin respectively during three or four note passages, while being able to spread out my seven voice chords - all without the need for me to adjust my playing style, lose any voices, or transfer voices to different patches later. I don't know if this is pie-in-the-sky, or feasible, just thought I'd throw it out there.

Thanks Greg for making yourself available on this forum - it's really an incredible notion as an end user to be able to communicate with a developer directly - I used to have to go to NAMM for that - except at NAMM, people usually don't like to talk about products in development, only releases  Whichever way you take this software, I'm excited for the opportunity to incorporate it!


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## Polarity (Dec 1, 2013)

just discovered Intuition only today: I'm very interested in it.

so is it not only a chord notes splitter but does it work also as an automatic counterpoint arranger?
that would be amazing.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 1, 2013)

Darryl Jackson @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> Eric @ Sat Nov 30 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm really looking forward to Intuition - definitely planning to purchase.
> ...



Me too! It will reinvigorate so many existing libraries! I'm looking forward to using it with Samplemodeling, Spitfire, LASS, the Embertone violin and cello, and also some other solo stuff like cinewinds and cinebrass which already has great poly legato, but now will be able to play with parts being arranged rather than stacked.


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## gregjazz (Dec 1, 2013)

Polarity @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> so is it not only a chord notes splitter but does it work also as an automatic counterpoint arranger?
> that would be amazing.


In the default "one voice per note" mode, exactly. As soon as I've finished scripting the unison mode option, I'll make another video to show both modes--I think that would make it a lot clearer how both modes operate and work differently.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 1, 2013)

Man, I just saw the mind control video with the advanced conditions. This is truly outstanding. I can't believe I haven't picked this up before. I hate libraries with different articulations spread out in different patches. This will totally make older libraries with less advanced scripting much more useful!

Mind Control should be more expensive! 

This deserves it's own thread again I think...


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## gregjazz (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks! The idea from Mind Control actually came from using orchestral libraries that had all their articulations separated into different patches, and I needed something to combine them all so that they're accessible from a single MIDI channel.

I've been thinking of some ideas on making the next version of Mind Control, using some sort of object-oriented system to create rules and the way rules relate to each other in order to intuitively add boolean operations (e.g. AND, OR), essentially. That and being able to do more than just routing MIDI data between instruments--like the capability to trigger keyswitches, etc.


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## Jordan Gagne (Dec 1, 2013)

gregjazz @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> I've been thinking of some ideas on making the next version of Mind Control, using some sort of object-oriented system to create rules and the way rules relate to each other in order to intuitively add boolean operations (e.g. AND, OR), essentially. That and being able to do more than just routing MIDI data between instruments--like the capability to trigger keyswitches, etc.



I know some of these words. :wink: 

To me the holy grail version of Mind control would solve two issues. 

1. Make it possible to access the library's GUI in a multi. In using program banks the samples are loaded into a nkb and therefore you lose access to the mic positions/fx/faders that come with most newer orchestral libraries. Kind of like how the Berlin Woodwind articulation performer works but the problem with that is you need a separate kontakt instance for each instrument.

2. Make it possible to customize and change the keyswitches of libraries where this isn't possible. For instance, I set every single patch in my library to have B-2 activate legato, and then I got to the Friedlander violin and realized that I was unable to change it from C3 or whatever it is.

Anyway I don't know if these are even possible or if they are in any way related to what you were talking about above, but if MC could do that


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 1, 2013)

Jordan Gagne @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> gregjazz @ Sun Dec 01 said:
> 
> 
> > I've been thinking of some ideas on making the next version of Mind Control, using some sort of object-oriented system to create rules and the way rules relate to each other in order to intuitively add boolean operations (e.g. AND, OR), essentially. That and being able to do more than just routing MIDI data between instruments--like the capability to trigger keyswitches, etc.
> ...



Good ideas. A big one for me is the access to mic positions. I don't understand the reference to not being able to change controls in the ensembles that are loaded but I haven't tried yet. Seriously you can't access the GUI? I was going to say that the only problem I see would be that when you put together a bunch of articulations that all have the same mic positions or common settings, you'd have to adjust them all individually rather than have one common set of controls. Perhaps if Mind Control had some sliders and knobs that could be assigned to controls of multiple ensembles that could be away around that, although midi learn could do the same. But not if the GUI isn't accessible.


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## mk282 (Dec 2, 2013)

Jordan Gagne @ 2.12.2013 said:


> 1. Make it possible to access the library's GUI in a multi. In using program banks the samples are loaded into a nkb and therefore you lose access to the mic positions/fx/faders that come with most newer orchestral libraries. Kind of like how the Berlin Woodwind articulation performer works but the problem with that is you need a separate kontakt instance for each instrument.



This is unfortunately not possible because Mind Control absolutely relies on instrument banks.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 2, 2013)

d'oh! So once you load an ensemble into MindControl then no adjusting any parameters? I guess that kind of makes it tough then.


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## gregjazz (Dec 2, 2013)

Well, it's really a limitation of Kontakt's instrument banks. If the library is unlocked, you can double-click on it to view the interface from Kontakt's back end... I think ideally I would move to using a MIDI channel based system, only supporting all 4 ports of MIDI channels (for a total of 64 per instance of Kontakt), which is how Intuition handles it.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 2, 2013)

Ok well at least you can access parameter under the hood. What would be cool would be a bunch of parameter templates - That is they don't have the behaviour set but they have the common controls and some way to learn the parameters from the individual ensembles to the bank gui. Can something like MindControl have parameters like sliders, knobs and buttons and have it controlling the ensembles? That way for those times when we're using the same format of instrument like for example a spitfire or orchestral tools ensemble where they have the same controls such as mic positions, you could adjust it from just the MindControl panel.


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## gregjazz (Dec 2, 2013)

The only way that would be possible is if developers adopted some sort of standard for being controlled by a master multiscript--for example, a standard range of NRPN messages to control various parameters, like the mic mixing, etc. It would be really cool, though!


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## chimuelo (Dec 2, 2013)

I am buying the Livid OhmRGB for using with your Intuition.
Until then the BCF 2000 will keep me in the game, but Mind Control and Intuition require a MIDI controller with more depth for realtime work.

Looking Forward To It... o-[][]-o


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## Per Lichtman (Dec 2, 2013)

@chimuelo Ah, the BCF 2000... so much bang for the buck.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 2, 2013)

gregjazz @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> The only way that would be possible is if developers adopted some sort of standard for being controlled by a master multiscript--for example, a standard range of NRPN messages to control various parameters, like the mic mixing, etc. It would be really cool, though!



I wasn't thinking a set of parameters that were always set to mic control or something, but rather some generic controls that could be set for specific libraries as templates. Like a community effort where we make different templates for different libraries that follow a certain layout with the idea that those libraries would be used with others from the same developer with the same layout. Like using different berlin woodwinds ensembles where you'd have those specific controls. But I don't eve know if it's possible to have sliders on mind control that could be mapped to the sliders of ensembles in the instrument bank. SO I don't even know if I'm making sense.


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## mk282 (Dec 3, 2013)

gregjazz @ 3.12.2013 said:


> Well, it's really a limitation of Kontakt's instrument banks. If the library is unlocked, you can double-click on it to view the interface from Kontakt's back end... I think ideally I would move to using a MIDI channel based system, only supporting all 4 ports of MIDI channels (for a total of 64 per instance of Kontakt), which is how Intuition handles it.



Why not keep both for Mind Control? There could be an option for using MIDI channels vs program changes for slots (in the former case the Slot knob would go from 1-64, in the latter case it would go 0-127).


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## Polarity (Dec 18, 2013)

Any development progress news about "Intuition"?


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## gregjazz (Dec 18, 2013)

I've made a little progress--I fixed the installation to make it more organized. It's just tricky because when installing Intuition you have to move the graphics and other resource files to very specific folders, so having this better organization will really help in that regard.

I also added a more prominent message that displays when you don't have the database files installed, rather than just a simple message in Kontakt's status bar.

The database files are for all the instrument definitions. That way we can add instrument choices in the future, and all you have to do is overwrite those database files with the latest ones. Your older projects store ensemble information internally, so they will remain unaffected--however, if you DO want them to update to the latest database, we've provided an option that you can click to do this.

The updates could include tweaking instrument ranges and other factors that the arranging system uses in order to distinguish the playable range from the best-sounding range.

The database files can also be updated to add additional instrument definitions--for example, based on popular demand.

In the future, we'll have a "pro" version of Intuition that has library-specific instrument definitions as well as the generic instrument definitions.

I've already set up the Intuition script for these "pro" instrument databases, so it will just be a matter of creating definitions for as many commercial libraries as possible.


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## Polarity (Dec 18, 2013)

Thanks Greg!
hope to see it working soon


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## damstraversaz (Dec 24, 2013)

Hi greg,
seems to be a unique script, can't wait to have it.
I have a little question about poly legato . I'm not an user of cinebrass or cinewind and would like to know a little more about this. As a keyboard player , I'm always finding hard to use poly legato like requiem, when you must make real legato between note: hard to play with complex voicing. I'm really like the way lass use the sustain pedal for poly legato, could this work with intuition and others libraries ? ( for exemple a poly legato multi with 4 albion legato ensembles )

all the best,
Damien


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## Dying Adonis (Feb 4, 2014)

Is this still a work in progress. Can I volunteer to beta test?


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## gregjazz (Feb 13, 2014)

damstraversaz @ Tue Dec 24 said:


> Hi greg,
> seems to be a unique script, can't wait to have it.
> I have a little question about poly legato . I'm not an user of cinebrass or cinewind and would like to know a little more about this. As a keyboard player , I'm always finding hard to use poly legato like requiem, when you must make real legato between note: hard to play with complex voicing. I'm really like the way lass use the sustain pedal for poly legato, could this work with intuition and others libraries ? ( for exemple a poly legato multi with 4 albion legato ensembles )


I think you could get it working similarly. You'd need to load several instances of the legato patch, though. Each one would be monophonic.


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## lee (Feb 13, 2014)

Will this work with K4?


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## gregjazz (Feb 13, 2014)

lee @ Thu Feb 13 said:


> Will this work with K4?


I tried to make it K4, but I needed some scripting functions (pertaining to the instrument databases and also dynamic UI menus) that were only available in K5. It may be possible to create a special version for K4, but some aspects would be limited.


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## lee (Feb 13, 2014)

Ok, fair enough.


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## ScoringFilm (Apr 5, 2014)

Any news yet Greg?

J


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## gregjazz (Apr 5, 2014)

There's still the matter of the unison play mode to sort out--that's the major thing left to do scripting-wise.

But thanks for bringing this topic back up, because there are some important things about the Intuition script that I'd like to discuss, and hopefully get some feedback from you guys.

At the foundation of Intuition, there are databases of the available instruments, which include information about their playable ranges and most suitable range. This data is used by Intuition to determine which instruments in your ensemble are best suited for the incoming notes. I made a distinction with the most suitable range of an instrument because while certain notes may be _technically_ possible to play on the instrument, it might not be in the most practical or best-sounding range. This is invaluable for the script to determine which instrument to use for any given note (as well as other factors that all combine to make Intuition as intelligent as possible).

The databases are originally CSV spreadsheets, which can be edited in Excel, Google Docs, etc. However, I have an online utility that converts the CSV files into the appropriate data format for Kontakt to use. The way it's structured, new instruments or changes to existing instruments can be added without affecting old projects. Though, there's a button in Intuition to refresh the loaded instruments from the database if you'd like to update an old project to use the latest instrument definitions.

What I'm currently trying to decide is whether or not to make it more of an open system. In other words, while the CSV databases and online utility were initially intended for in-house use only, it might be useful to make them available for everyone. That way you would be able to edit the CSV files yourself to add or change instruments, and then simply convert them on an Orange Tree Samples webpage to use with the Intuition script.

While I like the idea of empowering the users in this way, the only thing I'm wary about is having tons of alternate Intuition databases floating around. Maybe I'm over-thinking it, though...

What are your thoughts on this?


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## jas (Apr 5, 2014)

I much appreciate this update. While ranges of instruments would be very useful, note length values conforming to basic rules of polyphony would also be helpful. Maybe, someday voice leading and counterpoint could find their way into this as well. This is a very clever endeavor.


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## ScoringFilm (Apr 5, 2014)

Ìs there no way of altering the ranges directly in the script on an edit/settings page?


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## Guy Rowland (Apr 5, 2014)

Sounds great, Greg. I quite like the idea of user editing. You'd supply the official version, but users could always add / tweak data. It a user did this, it would be up to them to save their changes and re-import into any officially updated version.


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## gregjazz (Apr 5, 2014)

ScoringFilm @ Sat Apr 05 said:


> Ìs there no way of altering the ranges directly in the script on an edit/settings page?


Yeah, you can create a "custom instrument" within the interface, but that's more of a per-project basis rather than something that you can access globally.


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## The Darris (Apr 5, 2014)

Greg, could you ultimately have a 'user submitted' page to keep all of the CSV additions in check?


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## gregjazz (Apr 5, 2014)

We could definitely do that--maybe consisting of a master database that I manage, adding/changing instrument definitions. So the main thing is just getting the most popular additions/alterations consolidated into the factory database.

You would still be able to work with your own databases or try out other peoples' ones, of course. It'd just be nice to have the factory database evolve over time.


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## wst3 (Apr 6, 2014)

What Guy said... except a little stronger language<G>:

I think making the database that drives Intuition open is brilliant, but I think the OTS version of the database needs to be read only.

A second database, that you might also host, would be for user contributed entries.

Let's say I have the uber-cool OTS String Quartet library (hint hint) and clearly no one could know as much about it as OTS, so there would be an official database record for it.

But now I want to do something odd (never happen in the real world, but let's pretend), so I create an alternate Intuition entry. I can share it with the world in the user database, but the OTS entry stays intact.

Take this one tiny step further, Intuition probably ought to be able to download from both databases, but into separate "preset" catalogs.

This might stretch Kontakt a bit, but the ultimate arrangement would allow me to have a catalog of official records, and then a catalog of my own records, and then catalogs of other users records, attributed to them. So if Guy comes up with a killer definition for library X I'd have that too, and it wouldn't be confused with any others.

Probably the most important part of all of this is the externally editable format. I really wish everything could be edited in a text file or spreadsheet<G>!


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## KingIdiot (Apr 6, 2014)

gimme


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## gregjazz (Apr 6, 2014)

I could probably add a "user" category to the databases.

Right now there are two separate databases: one for the generic instrument definitions, and another for specific libraries. Each of these has an instrument family (or library) and then a subcategory for the instrument. That way things are kept organized.

The hierarchy looks like this (for example):

Instrument > Strings > Violin
Instrument > Brass > Trumpet
Sample Library > Albion > Strings Hi

So I could make a third main category for user definitions. The database files themselves are separate from each other, so you would be able to swap out user definitions without affecting your factory databases. Actually, it shouldn't affect your old projects either, even if they use user definitions (unless you click the "reload definitions" option in your project, of course).


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## GP_Hawk (Aug 18, 2014)

How's Intuition coming along Greg?


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## GP_Hawk (Aug 18, 2014)

How's Intuition coming along Greg?


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## Echoes in the Attic (Aug 18, 2014)

HOly crap, I almost forgot about this! Yeah I'm curious too how it's coming...

I bet this would very cool with a seaboard!


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## gregjazz (Aug 18, 2014)

It's in beta right now, though there's still scripting work to be done. It seems to work solidly without any stuck notes or things like that, though it seems like there are a few common requests:

- The ability to monitor which MIDI note is getting played by which instrument.

- The ability to assign instruments to notes in terms of their pitch order. In other words, assigning one instrument to the lowest note of each chord, another to the 2nd lowest, etc.

Initially I wanted Intuition to take care of all that automatically, with as minimal setup time necessary as possible. I also wanted it to be flexible, so you're not chained to 4-note chords or whatever. Rather than giving you exact precision over which instrument will get selected, I wanted Intuition to automatically detect everything and do its best to play incoming notes with the most suitable instruments in your ensemble.

It almost seems like I need to separate multiscripts for this difference, since I'm sure some people will want to quickly set up an ensemble to get quick results--for example, for mockups or live playing. Other people might want to set super specific rules about how instruments get triggered (a little more like how our Mind Control multiscript works).

I'm not sure if combining both approaches into a single multiscript is the most efficient route either. Multiscripts aren't as sophisticated as instrument scripts, and can get unwieldy pretty quickly.

What are your thoughts on all this?


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## thebob (Aug 18, 2014)

thanx for the news, I check about intuition twice a month, I'm very curious about it (I had similar things in mind in the long-term). 
I would use it in live situations mostly, but would be interested to see what it does to my flow when I'm composing. Live, it could be used with a very intuitive script (when improvising for instance), but also with used-defined complex combinations that are part of the creative process. same in studio / for composition. 
so, I would definitely see two different multiscripts. complexities are annoying and killl the workflow as well as the desire to use the tool when you just want to use its intuitive aspects.


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## gregjazz (Aug 18, 2014)

Actually, the more complex multiscript could be incorporated in a Mind Control type system, to route instruments based on their note order within a chord, etc. maybe for Mind Control 2...


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 18, 2014)

Well fwiw, I think your original notion fits the name "Intuition" better...


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## mk282 (Aug 19, 2014)

Yes. I would say go with Intuition being as simple and usable as it can be, and all the nitty-gritty stuff should be more like an expansion for a Mind Control update. Seems to have the most sense to me.


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## topaz (Dec 13, 2014)

Any more news, 2014 release unlikely ?


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## gregjazz (Dec 13, 2014)

topaz @ Sat Dec 13 said:


> Any more news, 2014 release unlikely ?


Yeah, it's unfortunately looking unlikely. We're trying to get the Evolution Electric Guitar Stratosphere released next week, so that's been the priority lately.

I will say, however, that I had some extra time to start rewriting some of the note logic to make the engine more flexible. That was the other factor that delayed Intuition's completion, though I think it'll end up being a better product because of that.

I'm also still intrigued by the idea about a website to allow additional instrument definitions to essentially be crowd-sourced (we talked about it earlier in this thread).


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## topaz (Dec 14, 2014)

Ok,cheers Greg.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Jan 12, 2015)

So now that the strat was released, it's back to intuition?


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## Mystic (Jan 12, 2015)

Looks interesting. I use mostly Hollywood series for orchestral though. :(


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## Will Blackburn (Feb 11, 2015)

Any progress with this? Sounds just up my street.


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## ScoringFilm (Feb 15, 2015)

bump! Any news Greg?


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## gregjazz (Feb 15, 2015)

Still have more code to write, since I took a step back and started rewriting some of the note handling to make things more flexible.


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## lucky909091 (Feb 15, 2015)

May I say that I discovered this thread in this minute and I am fascinated about it.
Please continue this great project.


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## ScoringFilm (Feb 15, 2015)

gregjazz @ 15/2/2015 said:


> Still have more code to write, since I took a step back and started rewriting some of the note handling to make things more flexible.


Thanks Greg; looking forward to it!

J


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## Usernamed (Apr 26, 2015)

Dear Greg,

Aside from joining the enthusiastic bunch who look forward to trying (beta testing maybe ? ~o) ) Intuition, and elaborating on the following conversation,

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... 66#3867066

I believe it would be very exciting to be able to do what might first sound paradoxical : using a Divisi Script to optionnaly route some of the melodic voices to the same Midi Channel and therefor Kontakt Instrument patch, and while doing so, automatically adjust the current value of a CC (1, 7, 11 and/or any other, as the CC number's relevance might vary from one instrument to the next) being passed thru to the Kontakt Patch used in a polyphonic manner to mimic consistency in player count (more notes implying less musician per note):

One note 100 % of current CC7 values
Two notes 50% of current CC7 values
Three notes 33% of current CC7 values
Four notes 25% of current CC7 values
Five notes 20% of current CC7 values
etc.

Also, I'd like to say the optional retrigger per instrument (let's keep them playing!) sounds like a wonderful idea


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## kurtvanzo (Apr 28, 2015)

Hey Greg, I can't believe I've been on VI for 2 years and never saw this thread. GREAT IDEA. I own mind control, CineBrass, CineWinds,... Ok I'm a Cinesamples whore with 90 percent of their libraries, but YOU are the one to blame- your realistic poly legato scripts are the thing that got me back into VI's and now my library is huge.

So releasing Intuition, even in a simplified version (like the video you made almost 2 years ago) would go far in helping me control the monster you helped to create, and I'd pay you for it!  I'd say for most working composers this would be worth $100 easy, and knowing you, it's probably half that. So let me pay you already, and get me a 1.0 or a 0.8... I don't care. Then I can use it for a month, thank you repeatedly, then ask you how quickly you can update it  but I'd pay for that privledge too. 

So please, this is the one thing missing from the market that would truly help those of us that have invested so much into these software "beauties" (yes, my ORangeTRee folder is stuffed too) :D Leave the unison alone for now and release what you have, then when your vacationing in your mountain hideaway paid for by this first release, the solution for Unison will come to you and we can all enjoy the sequel "Intuition 2 : Unison's Revenge". _-) 

As they say here "Take my cash, please!"

All the best,

-Kurt


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## gregjazz (Apr 28, 2015)

Usernamed @ Sun Apr 26 said:


> I believe it would be very exciting to be able to do what might first sound paradoxical : using a Divisi Script to optionnaly route some of the melodic voices to the same Midi Channel and therefor Kontakt Instrument patch, and while doing so, automatically adjust the current value of a CC (1, 7, 11 and/or any other, as the CC number's relevance might vary from one instrument to the next) being passed thru to the Kontakt Patch used in a polyphonic manner to mimic consistency in player count (more notes implying less musician per note):
> 
> One note 100 % of current CC7 values
> Two notes 50% of current CC7 values
> ...


Ah yeah, I've actually tried this before. It works really well if you have the polyphony set to control a filter, attenuating the mid frequencies. That way you don't get the unrealistic buildup when playing multiple notes within a section where they would ordinarily divisi.

The hardest part, though, is that when playing chords you don't really play all the notes at once. So it either needs to wait a threshold to make sure it's received all the notes (which adds extra latency, essentially), or you run into issues with the filter quickly changing as you play all the notes in the chord.


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## gregjazz (Apr 28, 2015)

kurtvanzo @ Tue Apr 28 said:


> Leave the unison alone for now and release what you have


Would you guys really be okay with that? I'm in the middle of revamping the note handling logic. Maybe I could finish the normal mode and do some sort of public beta while I work on the unison mode.


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## Anders Wall (Apr 28, 2015)

gregjazz @ Wed Apr 29 said:


> Would you guys really be okay with that? I'm in the middle of revamping the note handling logic. Maybe I could finish the normal mode and do some sort of public beta while I work on the unison mode.


Yes!
If you do please add me.

Regards,
/Anders


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## Mystic (Apr 28, 2015)

Same here. I'd be more than willing to test this. I'm very interested to see what this can do for production.


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## EwigWanderer (Apr 28, 2015)

Me too. Like to see how it works with BST and BWW.


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## freddiehangoler (Apr 30, 2015)

Count me in


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## Will Blackburn (May 21, 2015)

+1 for Beta


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## Kejero (May 22, 2015)

Totally ok!


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## vicontrolu (Oct 13, 2015)

Bump?


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## kurtvanzo (Oct 16, 2015)

Hope it's going well Greg. Beta testing it would be great if it's possible.


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## gregjazz (Oct 17, 2015)

I'm still here, just super busy with the sample libraries we have going on right now. 

Right now it seems best to basically find a good "stopping point" to just get Intuition out there and working solidly. It won't have all the features I'd like, but at least people could start using it. Originally I wrote the multiscript as a way to just play chords and have each note assigned to the most ideal instrument/section. That way when mocking up parts, instead of using a generic "string" patch, I could have it played by each individual section for that extra realism. Simple melodies and counterpoint should work as well.

The main thing I didn't originally compensate for is working with legato. Right now setting the ensemble size to "duet" is sorta a hack to allow instruments with legato to work. In the future it would be best to have a dedicated legato option, but for now I'm thinking of saving that (and other more advanced features) for an update in order to get the script finished sooner rather than later.


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## samphony (Oct 17, 2015)

Sounds great.


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## kurtvanzo (Oct 17, 2015)

Sounds great Greg, looking forward to this. Using divisi and solo instruments to play a custom ensemble would be great- even if it has only basic functions to start. All the best on the new libraries too!


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## Saxer (Jan 12, 2016)

Any news?


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## tav.one (Jan 15, 2016)

This looks amazing. Waiting for the release Greg, thanks.


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## gregjazz (Jan 17, 2016)

It's going to happen, don't worry! I definitely appreciate people showing their interest in the project. 

We've just been occupied with other sample libraries, so that's offset the timing on this a lot. That and having backtracked a little to make the note handling system more flexible--that way there's more room for expansion on Intuition in the future.


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## rpmusic (Jan 17, 2016)

gregjazz said:


> It's going to happen, don't worry! I definitely appreciate people showing their interest in the project.
> 
> We've just been occupied with other sample libraries, so that's offset the timing on this a lot. That and having backtracked a little to make the note handling system more flexible--that way there's more room for expansion on Intuition in the future.


Really, REALLY looking forward to this...this would be such a huge leap in productivity! Hope it's sooner that later!


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## Vastman (Jan 17, 2016)

Greg... The current version of your evolution engine is so wonderful I too am very interested in how you apply your "intuition" to meeting our dreams...


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## Batrawi (Jan 19, 2017)

Any updates about this?
This thread's worth bumping the sh*t out of it until this script comes to reality!
Not just this will help composers to maintain connection with their ideas/inspiration, but this will also elevate the standard and the possibilities of what you can do with any kontakt library! 
Imagine that every library you own now would have the auto arranger feature and you can instantly hear how it sounds in a realistic arrangement whether among its own instruments or even with instruments from other libraries! That's INSANITY!
I really wish to hear how this is progressing and when is it expected to be ready


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## ZeroZero (Jan 19, 2017)

watching


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## Mystic (Jan 19, 2017)

*pokes @gregjazz with stick*
Is this dead in the water? :(


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## gregjazz (Jan 20, 2017)

It would have been out by now had I not undertook rewriting all the note processing portion of the script. 

It's not dead--just on hold until I get a chance to work on it more.


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## Batrawi (Jan 20, 2017)

gregjazz said:


> It would have been out by now had I not undertook rewriting all the note processing portion of the script.
> 
> It's not dead--just on hold until I get a chance to work on it more.


You should take your time
But consider that lots of people need to try this thing before they die


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## Nite Sun (Jan 22, 2017)

Very excited for this!


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## sharmayelverton (Feb 19, 2017)

Oh this is exactly what i'm looking for. Look forward to it being completed.


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## Nite Sun (Aug 28, 2017)

Any news?


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## Batrawi (Oct 5, 2017)




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## gregjazz (Oct 5, 2017)

The project is still on hold (as stated before), mostly due to backtracking to rewrite all the note handling in the script. One of the main difficulties I've run into is how to handle legato. Originally, Intuition was designed to simply route notes in chords out to different MIDI channels based on internal logic. This is pretty simple, because all it's doing is altering the MIDI channels on the incoming notes.

However, what if you want playing a single note to result in all available instruments playing in unison? The multiscript has to generate new notes based on the single held note. So rather than just being a simple MIDI channel router, it's having to play new notes.

It was working okay, but I ran into occasional stuck notes, which is what prompted rewriting the note handling. I know what needs to be done, but there's a lot of work necessary to get the note handling working properly and reliably.


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## Mystic (Oct 5, 2017)




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## kurtvanzo (Oct 5, 2017)

Sounds great without the unison mode, just switching midi channels.  I can always add an instrument to play a certain line in unison, getting the notes to switch out to the right midi channel is the difficult part for us.


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## peterharket (Jun 10, 2021)

Any news Greg?


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