# New Mac Pro Advice



## Dryden.Chambers (Nov 1, 2014)

Looking at picking up a new Macpro in the near future. 

Is it a sound investment ? 
I have heard many say the bigger modles are overkill for running DAWS, etc. 

What is the minimum unit you would start with for DAW: Logic X, Ableton 9, , etc.
re: Cores, speed, ram, etc. ?

Any other advice greatly appreciated.

Thank you for taking the time, Dryden


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## charlieclouser (Nov 1, 2014)

It seems most are going for the six-core machines, as those seem to be the best balance between clock speed, number of cores, and price. 

Stepping from a 3.5gHz (on the six-core) down to a 2.7gHz (on the twelve-core) cpu clock speed is kind of a bummer - that's a big chunk. For my usage, I'll be getting the 12-core since I never run out of single-core performance on my 2.93gHz 12-core tower, and I would rather have lots of cores for playback of huge sessions as opposed to higher single-core performance that would let me put more plugins on a single track and still be able to play it live at small buffers - and that's really the deciding factor in which model you choose. Folks who are getting close to single-core overloads on older systems might want to go for the faster machine with fewer cores.

As to RAM - well, more is always better. Other World Computing (macsales.com) has RAM that's a good bit cheaper than Apple's chips, and you can go to 128gb instead of Apple's 64gb max - so that's worth looking into for sure. I've bought lots of stuff from them over the years and can recommend them as a safe bet.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/M ... 866-memory

I haven't gotten the new machine yet, but I've played around with a couple at different studios and they are BEASTLY. Silent, fast… just awesome. One composer who had been using Performer to drive two PC slaves via VEPro is now running his whole template on just the six-core cylinder and it's not even breaking a sweat. Very impressive. He's using a Promise RAID box to stream samples, but I'll probably go for BlackMagic MultiDocks and a bunch of 1tb SSDs.

The pro audio shop I deal with also sells Macs, and they say that most of the sales have been six-core machines with the 1tb flash drive and the smallest RAM, as many are getting third-party RAM from Other World Computing. They offered me a cut price on the 12-core machines they ordered as they have a few just sitting there, whereas the six-core machines are flying out the door.

Since I've waited this long (and my current 12-core tower is nowhere near running out of steam) I'm going to wait a few months to see if there is an update to the cylinder with a bump in 12-core speed, or a new high-end cpu, or what.


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## Grilled Cheese (Nov 1, 2014)

I've just received a new 8 core machine and I'm really happy with it so far. 

I shied away from the 12 core because the CPU is upgradable, so if the need arises I can upgrade just that one component in a few years. 

But more CPU power is probably not something I'll be needing anytime soon. This is a computer that I can see myself using for more than 5 years, so it's a good investment in that regard. I'm more likely to upgrade again out of gearlust rather than genuine necessity. 

Boots up completely in just 14 seconds and is basically inaudible from 6 feet away. 

I have 4 X 1TB SSDs and 2 X 4TB backup HDDs. One mistake I made with my setup was buying two Akitio Thunder 2 Quad enclosures for my disks. They are basically identical to OWC Thunderbay 4 (apart from some cosmetic differences, I'd swear they come out of the same factory in China). 

For anyone who comes across this post and is thinking about buying either of the above mentioned enclosures, heed my noise warning.

Specs for these enclosures list them as producing 25db, but they are louder than that. Each one of them makes more noise than my old 2010 Mac Pro. The fans in them are stock standard computer case fans - components that that the new Mac Pro has rendered rather archaic by comparison. Two of them at once can be heard from well over 30 feet away.

I'm going to have to return them and go with a Multidock 2 for my SSDs and some fanless OWC Mercury Elite Pro enclosures for my backup hard disks. No point having a virtually silent new Mac Pro in a studio environment and then bringing in two enclosures with noisy fans in them.

Using these enclosures in a normal office environment would be fine. Ambient noise will drown them out, which is why a lot of online reviewers rave about how quiet they are (hence misleading me into purchase). But in a studio - forget about it - not unless you have a separate machine room and thunderbolt cables long enough to reach them. 

I'm sure you'll love your new Mac Pro. No shortage of power, uber quiet, super quick. Hope my experience has given you some further direction.


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## snattack (Nov 2, 2014)

I looked into this recently when I decided I was going to buy a Mac Pro. I wrote this in a thread here earlier:

----
I just ordered the new Mac Pro and I choosed between then 8 and 12 core, and in the end it ended up being the 8 core. The reason for this is that all machines from 4-8 core has quite linear way of using Turbo Boost, a function which overclocks the cores if all cores aren't used. The turbo boost in the 12 core is not as good as the others. This could be use full in case there are project that have unbalanced way of using the cores, and/or software that doesn't fully utilize the multi core. If using as 12 core machine you should be 100% aware that the software can take advantage of all cores all the time which aren't really the case in Pro Audio.
---

I bought the 8 core. It's simply fantastic, and Cubase + Vienna has an even spread across the cores.

The projects that I couldn't run on the older laptop, which has higher single core performance, and thus - according to some people - would perform even better in realtime - barely moves the meter on the new Mac pro. Therefore, we can now kill of the myth that several cores isn't a win when it comes to realtime performance, when it clearly is.

I could also lower the buffer setting from 2 to 1 on all the VEP instances without the meter even reacting.

I added Hollywood Strings with powerful system patches in 5 different VEP instances without noticing any difference in performance in Cubase.

It's a brutal work horse, I'm so very happy with it.


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## samphony (Nov 2, 2014)

The new Mac Pro is again a huge step up from my previous 8 core 2009.
I can't recommend it enough it really is a workstation, silent and yes portable.
I recently traveled with it for 7 weeks. It's the first time in my live where I was able to have the power known from studio only at my fingertips on the go.


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## fiestared (Nov 2, 2014)

Hi all,
I'm seriously thinking about buying one myself, as all of you I hesitate between the models, in the light of your (new) experience which one do you recommend for a big set-up of Logic X and lots of big libraries, mostly use of VI. I prefer to stay on one computer and use VEP in Local. If possible, could you please give your configuration in details, thanks in advance. By the way, which monitor do you use ?
Thanks
F.red


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## Dryden.Chambers (Nov 2, 2014)

Question, Will Logic, Ableton, Kontakt, VEP, U-he benefit from the 8 cores over the 6 ?
I'm kind of at the max budget on 6 core 3.5, but if it was worth might think about jumping up to 8 and waiting another month.


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## SDCP (Nov 2, 2014)

I have the 3.0 GHz 8-core up and running, with 64 GB RAM. Storage is on the Blackmagic Multidock, running 4 1-TB Crucial Solid State Drives. LOVE THE MULTIDOCK. :D 

Pros: 
1) Very quiet (both the Mac and the Multidock)
2) Very fast
3) Everything runs on one machine (well two counting the Multidock).

Cons: 
1) Thunderbolt connectors are very small, and can come loose from the Mac.
2) Connector panel on the back of the Mac is tight and it can get a bit congested if you have a lot of cables running from the Mac.
3) Provided Thunderbolt cables are short (3 feet). I bought a longer one (12 feet) for $119. Longer TB cables are expensive.

But thumbs up regarding the speed of the thing. It's fast!

Cheers,
SD


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## fiestared (Nov 2, 2014)

SDCP @ 2/11/2014 said:


> I have the 3.0 GHz 8-core up and running, with 64 GB RAM. Storage is on the Blackmagic Multidock, running 4 1-TB Crucial Solid State Drives. LOVE THE MULTIDOCK. :D
> 
> Pros:
> 1) Very quiet (both the Mac and the Multidock)
> ...


Exactly the set-up I want(you lucky guy), do you use VEP in localhost, and if so, can you use huge libraries with no probs...Thanks :D 
F.red


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## Greg (Nov 2, 2014)

I'm with Charlie, waiting for the new model announcement. 

Nothing official yet unfortunately.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/14/08/15/server.quality.processor.arriving.en.masse.in.september.with.up.to.18.cores/ (http://www.electronista.com/articles/14 ... .18.cores/)


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## SDCP (Nov 2, 2014)

No VEP. All samples on the Multidock, and some synths on the Mac internal drive (1 TB). 

I have about 100 tracks running Vienna intruments, LASS, Cinematic Strings, Cinesamples Winds, Berlin Winds, Symphobia, Orchestral Essentials, Omnisphere, and other soft synths. Everything runs fine without hesitation. Plus I'm running a 720x408 Quicktime movie in Logic. No problems.


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## fiestared (Nov 2, 2014)

SDCP @ 2/11/2014 said:


> No VEP. All samples on the Multidock, and some synths on the Mac internal drive (1 TB).
> 
> I have about 100 tracks running Vienna intruments, LASS, Cinematic Strings, Cinesamples Winds, Berlin Winds, Symphobia, Orchestral Essentials, Omnisphere, and other soft synths. Everything runs fine without hesitation. Plus I'm running a 720x408 Quicktime movie in Logic. No problems.



Wow, seems to be the solution... Thanks for your answer. o-[][]-o 
F.red


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## samphony (Nov 2, 2014)

Yes last two projects no VEP. All inside logic. Stable and efficient.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Nov 4, 2014)

All very good advice guys. Thank you Charlie. 

Is there a new 6-8 core coming out soon btw ?


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## charlieclouser (Nov 5, 2014)

Dryden.Chambers @ Tue Nov 04 said:


> Is there a new 6-8 core coming out soon btw ?



Well, nobody really knows for sure when the next update to the new Mac Pro will come - but there have been announcements of newer-generation Intel Xeon chips that would, in theory, be the ones that Apple would use in a newer machine. Not that these new chips are a huge boost in performance or anything; they're basically the same clock speeds as the current chips but with (I think) slightly higher RAM speeds, a larger cache, etc. These new chips may still be a few months out, but at least Intel has announced them.

So not a huge leap in performance or anything… but I figure since I've waited this long and my 12-core tower is not even stressing, why not wait a while longer? An updated Mac Pro might include DisplayPort 1.3 or some other small tweaks that make life easier down the road - like if Apple ships a 5k stand-alone monitor like the one in the iMac 5k or something.

Anyway, my motivation to upgrade comes mostly from wanting to use better peripherals like the Thunderbolt BlackMagic MultiDock, UAD Satellite Thunderbolt, MOTU AVB series, etc. Funny how when the cylinder came out everyone was complaining that the high-end peripherals wouldn't work, you couldn't put any drives inside the machine, etc. - but now my tower has all the slots and drive bays full and it's still not enough - I'm maxed out at 6tb of SSD, one audio card and one DSP card inside. The stuff I want can only be attached via Thunderbolt, so I'm in the opposite situation - I want to daisy-chain multiple UAD Satellite Thunderbolts, 2x MultiDocks, some MOTU AVB boxes, and some 4k monitors - none of which work on the old tower.

If you need to get a new machine now, the current cylinder is by no means a stupid choice, as the next update won't be a huge change at all - probably just small incremental improvements to cache, RAM speed, monitor support, etc. 

Everyone I know who got the new 6-core machines is loving the cylinder.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Nov 5, 2014)

Thanks for the follow up Charlie. Yes, I am pretty certain a current six core and 27" monitor are in my future now.

And yours and others recommendation for Multidock looks like my next purchase. 

Did I read right that the multidock two can accept conventional SATA drives as well ? (I have 8 configured in 4 dual raid OWC enclosures) I would like to use then at one point in the near future start transferring to SSD's.

Is thunderbolt to non thunderbolt adaption available for things like Emagic Unitor 8, USB2-3 docks, etc ?

I have to get the thunderbolt card for my Apollo, but will this not only improve performance but also instance count ?


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## SDCP (Nov 5, 2014)

Dryden.Chambers @ Wed Nov 05 said:


> Thanks for the follow up Charlie. Yes, I am pretty certain a current six core and 27" monitor are in my future now.
> 
> And yours and others recommendation for Multidock looks like my next purchase.
> 
> ...



I think the multidock is just SSD, but you can check that out on the web. I'm using a Firewire/Thunderbolt adapter coming out of an RME audio unit, and it works very well. Search for "Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter" to find one.


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## charlieclouser (Nov 5, 2014)

The Multidock only takes 2.5" drives - so I guess you could shove a spinning drive in there if it was a 2.5" (aka laptop) drive, but standard 3.5" drives will not fit.

I got an interesting email forwarded to me regarding the next revision of the Intel chips that might appear in the Mac Pro. He's talking about audio and USB problems on the Haswell chips that were in some iMac systems, and apparently the next chipset slotted for use in the Mac Pro will be the Xeon derivative of the Haswell line, and he thinks these chips might inherit some of the issues that appeared in the iMacs last year or so. 

If this info is correct, then maybe it's smart to buy THIS (current aka gen1) version of the Mac Pro instead of waiting for the gen2 revision….

This came from a guy I don't know personally, who was advising a friend on a Mac Pro purchase:

---------------------

The current MBP and iMac use the Haswell processor… that has been having problems with audio latency and USB interfaces. Apple has not fixed these issues through OS updates, so it appears to be faulty hardware—in the case of the latency, it seems to be part of the Haswell architecture, and in the case of the USB issues, it appears to be some kind of design flaw. I can work around the MBP latency issue—I just have a portable interface with me at all times.

The MacPro is using the previous generation processor, the Ivy Bridge (the codenames are whatever they call them, but they’re essentially server editions of the previous MBP / iMac processors, called Ivy Bridge). There were no problems with audio in Ivy Bridge, or USB. And therefore, the current Mac Pro is the most stable in regards to latency performance and USB interface connections.

From Macworld: "The 2013 Mac Pro features Intel's Xeon E5 V2 processors (code-named Romley) offering up to 12 cores (as a build-to-order option). Soon to hit the market are new Xeon E5 V3 chips (code-named Grantley) which will bring Haswell architecture to pro workstations including the Mac Pro, we predict.”

That Haswell architecture is the potential problem—just for audio, since it’s such an afterthought on most computers today. I opted to buy now, to make sure I got a machine that would be stable audio-wise. And although the Haswell processors will be slightly more powerful, they won’t be clocked any faster than the current Ivy Bridge. They will also introduce DDR4 RAM, which is very expensive right now. So for the same 64GB of RAM I put in my machine, you’ll likely pay 40-50% more.


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## Sovereign (Nov 5, 2014)

SDCP @ Wed Nov 05 said:


> Dryden.Chambers @ Wed Nov 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the follow up Charlie. Yes, I am pretty certain a current six core and 27" monitor are in my future now.
> ...


No the Multidock accepts any 2,5" SATA drives, regular platter ones included.


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## charlieclouser (Nov 5, 2014)

Unitor8 mk2 (USB) and any of your normal USB2 and USB3 stuff will work fine plugged directly into the six USB3 ports on the back of the new Mac Pro - no adaptors needed. The Thunderbolt > Firewire adaptor is only needed for Firewire devices like audio interfaces or Firewire drives / drive arrays.

Thunderbolt > DVI, DVI-dual link, VGA, etc. adaptors work fine for older monitors.

HDMI monitors plug right into the back of the new Mac Pro as well.


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## snattack (Nov 5, 2014)

charlieclouser @ Wed Nov 05 said:


> Unitor8 mk2 (USB) and any of your normal USB2 and USB3 stuff will work fine plugged directly *into the six USB3 ports* on the back of the new Mac Pro - no adaptors needed. The Thunderbolt > Firewire adaptor is only needed for Firewire devices like audio interfaces or Firewire drives / drive arrays.
> 
> Thunderbolt > DVI, DVI-dual link, VGA, etc. adaptors work fine for older monitors.
> 
> HDMI monitors plug right into the back of the new Mac Pro as well.



FYI, new Mac Pro only has 4.


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## dinerdog (Nov 5, 2014)

The iMac audio thread is still going on over at Apple:

https://discussions.apple.com/message/2 ... 0#26877696

Seems nobody can actually narrow it down to one thing. It 'might' be USB audio interfaces, it might not. Even some problems on the new MacPro with an Apogee Quartet:

https://discussions.apple.com/message/26341852#26341852

It does kind of, maybe, seem like it's a USB audio interface thing, but nothing conclusive.


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## charlieclouser (Nov 6, 2014)

snattack @ Wed Nov 05 said:


> FYI, new Mac Pro only has 4.



Oops. I was thinking of the six Thunderbolt ports. Duh.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Nov 13, 2014)

For current MP users or anyone in the know, is the 256GB PCIe-based flash storage basically used for the boot up and equivalent to a internal SSD ?


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## charlieclouser (Nov 13, 2014)

Dryden.Chambers @ Thu Nov 13 said:


> For current MP users or anyone in the know, is the 256GB PCIe-based flash storage basically used for the boot up and equivalent to a internal SSD ?



Yes.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Nov 13, 2014)

Cheers Charlie for all the knowledge sharing in this thread. I am 2 weeks from my 6 core now. _-) 

I must add seeing Christian and Paul @ Spitfire using new 6 cores in there studio's gives me great hope the 6 core will be plenty of horse power for some while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofFt1BTex5c&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofFt1BT ... e=youtu.be)




charlieclouser @ Thu Nov 13 said:


> Dryden.Chambers @ Thu Nov 13 said:
> 
> 
> > For current MP users or anyone in the know, is the 256GB PCIe-based flash storage basically used for the boot up and equivalent to a internal SSD ?
> ...


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## Greg (Nov 13, 2014)

Just got this set-up:

http://imgur.com/Mv9eC23

So excited ahhhh!!

Also a cool rack I found for housing the mac pro + a few units

http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-SRW6U-Enclosure-Cabinet/dp/B003K1NFY4/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1415905011&sr=1-8&keywords=half+rack (http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-SRW6U- ... =half+rack)


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## Jack Weaver (Nov 13, 2014)

Looks good, Greg. 

Hope to get around to something like that early in 2015. Thanks for sharing the fruits of your upgrade investigations.

.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Nov 13, 2014)

Hi guys,

I currently have my music and sample library spread over 4 OWC Guardian Maximus 2TB Mirrored Raid enclosures. Would a good philosophy be to hook these up to the Mac pro with TB adapters for now while I slowly begin to move the data over to Black Magic/SSD's then keep backups on the OWC's ? 

Or would you think about moving the physical drives into a TB enclosure ?


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