# EW Play samples cut off when using bounce in place/offline bounce in LPX



## PeterBaumann

I'm just setting up a new template for my samples, and have run a quick test which is throwing up an odd bug.

Systems specs are in the description, but basically my PC Slave machine is cutting off the tails of EWHO samples in Play 6 when hosted in VEPro 6 (latest versions of both). They play back fine in real time, but as soon as I either Bounce in Place or Bounce the Project offline, it cuts each sample. This doesn't happen with MA1 in VEPro on the same machine, which makes me think it's something specific to the play engine?

There is no additional processing within LPX on the host machine. Reverb is turned off in Play on the PC.

Is this a known bug, or has something not quite been set up right at my end?


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## PeterBaumann

I've just run another test, and it's definitely an issue with Play. Albion Tundra exports fine. I've just tried a 6 horn sustain patch and it's buggy too. 6FH Offline/BIP file vs Realtime attached below, as well as the exact same midi and automation on a Tundra EVO Vral Patch which works fine as an offline bounce.


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## PeterBaumann

Latest version of Play on the Mac Host running a cello sample from Goliath does not cut off the samples early, so it's just when in VEPro 6 & Play 6 on the PC over ethernet to LPX on the Mac.


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## PeterBaumann

I've just done another test this morning, and it also happens when samples the Goliath samples are hosted in VEPro on the Mac. So if inserted as a PLAY plugin in Logic, I can bounce offline and in place, but if inserted within VEPro either locally or from the PC Server, I get the dropouts. Freezing the track also results in dropouts.

Is anyone else able to replicate this?


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## PeterBaumann

So it's an issue with Play in VEPro 6 when it's hosted as a VST (on PC I think this is the only option, and on Mac if I select VST). How odd...

Realtime and offline, bounce in place, freezing all work fine if the Play instance is AU. If I have the exact same setup but as a VST plugin, I get the dropouts.


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## PeterBaumann

Final test was to run the local AU vs VST test on my Macbook Pro (up-to-date installs of all the software there too) and I'm getting the same results there. Really stumped now.

Please can someone try and run the test at their end to see if the issue can be replicated? @Ashermusic?

Thanks


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## Ashermusic

PeterBaumann said:


> Final test was to run the local AU vs VST test on my Macbook Pro (up-to-date installs of all the software there too) and I'm getting the same results there. Really stumped now.
> 
> Please can someone try and run the test at their end to see if the issue can be replicated? @Ashermusic?
> 
> Thanks




Will try this out in a few hours Peter.


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## PeterBaumann

Thanks  I've been in touch with EW so hopefully they're also checking on their systems.


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## Ashermusic

ted OK, as promised I did this. I used a Logic project with HS Diamond in VE Pro 7 on my Mac that I posted before for a Henry Mancini string sound. First, I bounced the whole project, and it is flawless.

Second I chose "Bounce and replace all tracks." A pic of the bounce in place waveforms shows you that again it is flawless.


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## PeterBaumann

Bah - I don't understand 

So that's with Play loaded as a VST in VEPro? So odd that I'm getting the same issue on both my iMac and Macbook Pro in both VEPro 6 & 7.

Just to check, was your method any different than this:

Open VEPro 7 Server (64-bit) on your host Mac
In an empty project, click Add New Instance
Right click>Insert Plugin>VST>EastWest>Play (Stereo)
Add instrument and set the Midi Channel to 1 in the Instrument Panel Pop-out within Play 6
Right click>Insert Plugin>AU>EastWest>Play (Stereo)
Add instrument and set the Midi Channel to 2 in the Instrument Panel Pop-out within Play 6
Set each VEPro plugin in to Midi Port 1 & Midi Channel All in the VEPro interface
Open LPX>Create a New Project>Add Track>Software Instrument>VEPro (Stereo)
Under the Track panel on the left, select MIDI Channel 1, then hit Cntrl + Return on a Mac to create another track with the next midi channel.
Record some midi chords, duplicate the region onto the 2nd track and shift the region to the end of Track 1's midi track so there's no overlap and it'll be clear which is which when it's bounced
Right click>Bounce in Place. Alternatively, Bounce the Project, or freeze the track. The result should be the same regardless of method, as long as it’s not a real-time rendering.
If you get the same results as me, the first version (the VST instrument) will have weird dropouts, and the second version (the AU instrument) will have bounced fine.
^ This is what I've sent to the guys over at EW.


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## Ashermusic

PeterBaumann said:


> Bah - I don't understand
> 
> So that's with Play loaded as a VST in VEPro? So odd that I'm getting the same issue on both my iMac and Macbook Pro in both VEPro 6 & 7.
> 
> Just to check, was your method any different than this:
> 
> Open VEPro 7 Server (64-bit) on your host Mac
> In an empty project, click Add New Instance
> Right click>Insert Plugin>VST>EastWest>Play (Stereo)
> Add instrument and set the Midi Channel to 1 in the Instrument Panel Pop-out within Play 6
> Right click>Insert Plugin>AU>EastWest>Play (Stereo)
> Add instrument and set the Midi Channel to 2 in the Instrument Panel Pop-out within Play 6
> Set each VEPro plugin in to Midi Port 1 & Midi Channel All in the VEPro interface
> Open LPX>Create a New Project>Add Track>Software Instrument>VEPro (Stereo)
> Under the Track panel on the left, select MIDI Channel 1, then hit Cntrl + Return on a Mac to create another track with the next midi channel.
> Record some midi chords, duplicate the region onto the 2nd track and shift the region to the end of Track 1's midi track so there's no overlap and it'll be clear which is which when it's bounced
> Right click>Bounce in Place. Alternatively, Bounce the Project, or freeze the track. The result should be the same regardless of method, as long as it’s not a real-time rendering.
> If you get the same results as me, the first version (the VST instrument) will have weird dropouts, and the second version (the AU instrument) will have bounced fine.
> ^ This is what I've sent to the guys over at EW.




Ooh, not sure I loaded the VST, might be the AU. Let me try again.


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## Ashermusic

Yep. there is a problem with the VST offline bouncing on my Mac as well.


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## PeterBaumann

Well that at least means it's not a dodgy setting somewhere on all of my systems  Thanks so much for checking.

Surprised no-one else has reported it as I think you have to use the VST version if running it from a PC Server over to a Mac Host?


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## Ashermusic

PeterBaumann said:


> Well that at least means it's not a dodgy setting somewhere on all of my systems  Thanks so much for checking.
> 
> Surprised no-one else has reported it as I think you have to use the VST version if running it from a PC Server over to a Mac Host?




Correct. I no longer own a slave PC, but if I did, I would be complaining.


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## prodigalson

I also have this issue for several years. My entire EW Hollywood Orchestra is unusable as it's hosted on my slave machine and I use Logic Pro X. I've submitted a support ticket and hoped with every new version of Play it would be fixed but alas no. So I've just moved on and these great samples are collecting dust on my Slave.


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## Ashermusic

prodigalson said:


> I also have this issue for several years. My entire EW Hollywood Orchestra is unusable as it's hosted on my slave machine and I use Logic Pro X. I've submitted a support ticket and hoped with every new version of Play it would be fixed but alas no. So I've just moved on and these great samples are collecting dust on my Slave.




I don't remember seeing this a couple of years ago when I was using aa slave PC, and recording and playback with them was flawless, but then again, I usually create audio from MIDI in my template by assigning the parts to axes and bouncing them in real time to audio tracks with those auxes as the inputs, so I may not have encountered the issue.

Has anyone posted this on the EW forum? It probably will get responded to much sooner there than here.


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## Vasim

I had the same problem in samplitude. There are two things I did to fix it. One was to go from Asio - Vip to Hardware option or up the voices in play settings. Not the same daw but it seems to be a vst setup in daws or voices in play.


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## Vasim

By the way the settings where you play about with fx and tweak your sounds not the hdd memory cache or cpu one.


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## PeterBaumann

Vasim said:


> I had the same problem in samplitude. There are two things I did to fix it. One was to go from Asio - Vip to Hardware option or up the voices in play settings. Not the same daw but it seems to be a vst setup in daws or voices in play.



Were you on PC or Mac?


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## TimCox

Might want to try unchecking "stream from disk" if your rig can manage it. I had some bad sample dropout from HOP that was fixed by doing that. Otherwise it might be completely a bug


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## Vasim

PeterBaumann said:


> Were you on PC or Mac?


PC


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## PeterBaumann

Vasim said:


> PC



I think the issue is specific to Mac: Play as a VST Plugin in VEPro 6 or 7 connected to Logic. 

Not sure about other DAWs on Mac, though. Does anyone have a copy of Cubase/Ableton they might be able to use to run the same test?


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## PeterBaumann

TimCox said:


> Might want to try unchecking "stream from disk" if your rig can manage it. I had some bad sample dropout from HOP that was fixed by doing that. Otherwise it might be completely a bug



I've just tried this - which was also EW's advice this morning - and whilst that does solve the problem it's not really a workable solution for big templates. The RAM usage is astronomical if you disable 'stream from disk'. Main and Close mics loaded on a 1st Violin Legato patch takes the RAM use from 2.3GB to 14GB...  I wouldn't even be able to load in a full string section with just the legato patches if it's disabled.

I'm still a bit befuddled as to why the VST is behaving differently vs the AU plugin - it's all the same samples, running from the same SSDs using the same buffer and cache settings etc.

It's frustrating that there isn't a way to host Play on a windows server as an AU plugin, as far as I can see.


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## Sarah Mancuso

As far as I can tell, offline bounce has been broken for years in Play. I've looked into it before and found various forum threads complaining about it since the early early days of Play. It was apparently fixed at one point and then quickly got broken again.

It makes EastWest libraries unusable in Reason (which has offline bounce only, no realtime), so I haven't bought any EastWest products and won't be doing so unless this is conclusively solved. (But even then, history shows that it might just stop working again a version later...)


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## Zero&One

PeterBaumann said:


> It's frustrating that there isn't a way to host Play on a windows server as an AU plugin, as far as I can see.



That does sound annoying. Is that possibly a version 6 thing, I've no idea? I've not really setup my slave yet, but this was why I bought it as I thought it could host either irrelevant of platform.


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## PeterBaumann

Zero&One said:


> That does sound annoying. Is that possibly a version 6 thing, I've no idea? I've not really setup my slave yet, but this was why I bought it as I thought it could host either irrelevant of platform.



I think the lack of AU thing is a windows 'feature'. I don't think you can get any plugins as AU for windows, but I may be mistaken. 

Yes, it's incredibly frustrating that currently the Play VST requires you to not bounce offline/in-place/freeze in order to get successful exports, or you have to load the samples fully into RAM making any kind of template with more than a handful of articulations unworkable! Even on a machine with 64GB+ of RAM


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## TimCox

PeterBaumann said:


> 1st Violin Legato patch takes the RAM use from 2.3GB to 14GB


Oh lord, that's ridiculous.


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## kenose

Wrestling with some ridiculous Play offline bounce stuff right now as well, not the exact same issue but with a similar solution (disabling streaming from disk). I threw HWS spiccatos into my template to use for layering in an upcoming project, and while testing everything out started getting pops and clicks in any offline bounces. The best part is it's not even all of the patches-- it is specifically happening with the viola, cello, bass spiccato patches. For example, the viola staccato patches offline bounce fine! 

This was originally happening in Logic, but I verified the same behavior in Cubase 10 with the Play VST. I tried hosting Play in VE Pro as well-- same exact behavior, pops in clicks on the same patches with offline bouncing. I even completely re-installed HWS just in case.

Disabling streaming from disk fixes the problem, but as Peter pointed out this incurs ridiculous RAM usage once you have more than a few patches loaded.... luckily I think I will get away with keeping just the HWS spiccatos I need in my template and take the RAM hit, but it has made me think twice about including any EW Play products in the future.


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## PeterBaumann

Might be worth dropping EW Support an email to see if they can help. Are you using VST or AU versions?


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## kenose

PeterBaumann said:


> Might be worth dropping EW Support an email to see if they can help. Are you using VST or AU versions?


Happens with both VST/VST3/AU in Logic/Cubase sadly. I’ll send an email to EW just to report the behavior—problem is I’m getting going on a project and won’t have much time to sit around troubleshooting!


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## Ashermusic

kenose said:


> Happens with both VST/VST3/AU in Logic/Cubase sadly. I’ll send an email to EW just to report the behavior—problem is I’m getting going on a project and won’t have much time to sit around troubleshooting!



It isn’t happening here with AU in Logic or VE Pro 7, but it is with VST in VE Pro 7


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## PeterBaumann

Yeah as far as I can tell the AU version is working fine here, just the VST has the issue. Happy to try any specific files if you want to send them my way, although my HWO is all on a slave PC so not sure I'll be of much help in this instance for testing of AU.


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## GPnicolett

Sorry to ressurect this old thread, but I'm having the same problem, same setup...did anyone ever solve this issue?


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## PeterBaumann

I haven't tried it since I ran the tests last year, I'll give it another go when I get a mo over the weekend if that's useful. I don't remember seeing a Play update fix this, though, and given that they've shifted development over to Opus now, I doubt we'll see a fix if it's not already been resolved.


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