# VST is not a synonym for Virtual Instrument



## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2019)

It’s a plug-in format, ,like AU, AAX, MAS.

Please stop using the term incorrectly.

Thank you.


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 30, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Please stop using the term incorrectly.


No. 



Ashermusic said:


> Thank you.


You're welcome!


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## ysnyvz (Dec 30, 2019)

VST: Virtual studio technology
AU: Audio unit
AAX: Avid audio extension
MAS: Motu audio system


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## I like music (Dec 30, 2019)

What?! Is this true?

Fuck it, going to use the term the wrong way. The way I use all my VIs...


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## Tfis (Dec 30, 2019)

ysnyvz said:


> VST: Virtual sound technology


studio not sound


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 30, 2019)

They're not comic books! They're graphic novels.


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## RogiervG (Dec 30, 2019)

I kind of concur.

VST is too broad, only hints for the plugin format, not what it is. We musical nerds should be more detailed.
So in this case:
It's actually VSTI when talking about an instrument in the VST format. Or in case of an effects plugin VSTFX.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 30, 2019)

But you really should be using VST. AU and AAX is wrong.


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## Noeticus (Dec 30, 2019)

If you have a VST, please see your doctor.


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 30, 2019)

VST can now join the following:


"I'll Xerox that". 
Auto-Tune. Even though you used Melodyne.
Scotch Tape. Scotch is a brand, others should be "clear adhesive tape"
Tupperware was invented by Earl Tupper.
Jacuzzi is a brand invented by the Jacuzzi bros.
I'll Google that using Bing.
Love my Panasonic Walkman.
Dumpsters were created by the Dempsters.
Band-Aid.


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## MartinH. (Dec 30, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> VST can now join the following:



NO! This is unacceptable! They should be called VIs, because we are on on the VI:Consumerism forum here.



Ashermusic said:


> It’s a plug-in format, ,like AU, AAX, MAS.
> 
> Please stop using the term incorrectly.
> 
> Thank you.



I 100% agree, this bothers me more and more being used the wrong way. Same as people saying "muck ups" when they mean "mockups". Seems to be the latest trend to get that wrong.

The worst is when people call things VSTs, when they aren't even available as VST plugins because they are for example Kontakt libraries.

Barbaric! We need to hold ourselves to higher standards!


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 30, 2019)

Talking with non-music people-

Someone: That sounds good, that orchestra.
Me: It's a Synthesizer.
Someone: Cool.


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## PaulBrimstone (Dec 30, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> VST can now join the following:
> 
> 
> "I'll Xerox that".
> ...


Hoover the carpet


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## I like music (Dec 30, 2019)

PaulBrimstone said:


> Hoover the carpet



Man, I got 8dio'ed at the car dealership. Thought I was buying the the BMW, but ended up with the Mercedes.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 30, 2019)

This is true. I usually say VSTI, but use AAXIs. Though they mostly come in both formats. What's AU again? I don't recognize that term.

Just kidding...


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 30, 2019)

I say "sample library". But I do have to admit it's a clunky term, and I can understand why people want to abbreviate it. Maybe I should say "VI" instead, but that might not be familiar to some people.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 30, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> people saying "muck ups" when they mean "mockups".



I love the muck up, haha.


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## I like music (Dec 30, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I love the muck up, haha.



Muck up is correct. When you haven't bothered using any EQ and you get all that mud in your track, this is the correct term.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 30, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> people saying "muck ups" when they mean "mockups".


They're only calling it that when it's your mockup.


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## jtnyc (Dec 30, 2019)

I do agree and find it annoying when people refer to virtual instruments as vst’s.

I say sample library if I’m referring to a sample library. I say VI sampler if I’m referring to a virtual sampler. I say VI synth if I’m referring to a virtual synth. I say effects plugin if I’m referring to an effects plugin.

I use the terms au, aax, vst etc when referring to various plugin formats.


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## C.R. Rivera (Dec 30, 2019)

I like music said:


> Man, I got 8dio'ed at the car dealership. Thought I was buying the the BMW, but ended up with the Mercedes.


Was it deeply sampled OR deeply discounted?


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## AndyP (Dec 30, 2019)

ROFL, LOL, FCK


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## RogiervG (Dec 30, 2019)

AndyP: please refer to your own avatar..





Do you have the answer yet?


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## AndyP (Dec 30, 2019)

Hmm, I know sometimes I get a little... a little over the top.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> VST can now join the following:
> 
> 
> "I'll Xerox that".
> ...



No, it _can't_ . Those are _brands_ that came to indicate similar products that were interchangeable essentially.

VSTs, AUs, etc. are _not_ interchangeable, If you have Logic, you can't use VST. Other DAWs won't use AU.

Anyway, why spread ignorance? Don't be what we refer to in Boston as a chowderhead.


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## Michel Simons (Dec 30, 2019)

I thought VST stood for Very Sexy Toys?


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## RogiervG (Dec 30, 2019)

Michel Simons said:


> I thought VST stood for Very Sexy Toys?


no.. virtual Sex... oh nevermind


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## halfwalk (Dec 30, 2019)

If you use a word, and everybody knows what you're talking about when you use it, then you used the correct word. Should we end colloquialisms and metaphors too?

VST is just a trademark for a specific type of dynamic-link library used by certain executables. But we call them plugins, and not libraries, even though they_ are_ libraries! They don't even have a plug!


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## muk (Dec 30, 2019)

Which VST compliments the ones I already have the best?


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2019)

halfwalk said:


> If you use a word, and everybody knows what you're talking about when you use it, then you used the correct word. Should we end colloquialisms and metaphors too?
> 
> VST is just a trademark for a specific type of dynamic-link library used by certain executables. But we call them plugins, and not libraries, even though they_ are_ libraries!
> 
> Also, please stop saying cello, it's violoncello. Actually, we shouldn't be speaking English here, it's not the correct language.



Everybody does NOT know what you are talking about. You are adding confusion. I see that all over the Internet. People write stupid stuff like, "I bought a VST and it won't open in Logic. I thought Logic could use third party virtual instruments."


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## RogiervG (Dec 30, 2019)

O M G
MUK, did you just said VST?


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## Mike Fox (Dec 30, 2019)

halfwalk said:


> If you use a word, and everybody knows what you're talking about when you use it, then you used the correct word. Should we end colloquialisms and metaphors too?
> 
> VST is just a trademark for a specific type of dynamic-link library used by certain executables. But we call them plugins, and not libraries, even though they_ are_ libraries! They don't even have a plug!


This.

Langauge is always evolving. A lot of words we use today aren't _exactly_ what they used to mean.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> This.
> 
> Langauge is always evolving. A lot of words we use today aren't _exactly_ what they used to mean.



Devolving when it creates confusion. The purpose of language is to communicate, not obfuscate.


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 30, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Don't be what we refer to in Boston as a chowderhead.


1. I actually grew up in Boston, South Boston then Weymouth to be exact. Your usage of Chowderhead is inaccurate.  Jolterhead is the correct usage.

2. Life is short.

3. The terminology used around here for string playing can be hilarious. Re-bow??? HAAA! Everything is "legato this, legato that" when it usually has little to do with legato. Fingered legato? Dafuq? I let it slide, because of #2.

4. See #2.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> 1. I actually grew up in Boston, South Boston then Weymouth to be exact. Your usage of Chowderhead is inaccurate.  Jolterhead is the correct usage.
> 
> 2. Life is short.
> 
> ...



I grew up in Winthrop. By definition we are smarter than people from Southie


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## halfwalk (Dec 30, 2019)

Okay then. Speaking of obfuscation, everybody please stop calling it a bassoon, when the actual term is fagotto.


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 30, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> By definition we are smart than people from Southie


Judging by that sentence.........


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2019)

halfwalk said:


> Okay then. Speaking of obfuscation, everybody please stop calling it a bassoon, when the actual term is fagotto.



No, that is a matter of different names in different languages.

Come on, surely you guys _have_ to be smarter than this.


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## ka00 (Dec 30, 2019)

From now on I’m calling all VIs Chowderheads.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Judging by that sentence.........



Typo that I fixed while you were replying. Everyone in Boston knows that guys from Southie are knuckle draggers


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 30, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Typo that I fixed while you were replying. Everyone in Boston knows that guys from Southie are knuckle draggers



I don't even remember it. I remember Weymouth. We moved when I was 11 I think. I'm on my 13th state now...but I know how to say Worcester. I think.


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## Saxer (Dec 30, 2019)

It‘s like people use the term „base drum“ for „bass drum“.
Sometimes it‘s really crazy here on vst-control.


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## kociol21 (Dec 30, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> It’s a plug-in format, ,like AU, AAX, MAS.
> 
> Please stop using the term incorrectly.
> 
> Thank you.



Bold statement for someone that lists Addictive Drums (sampler) and U-He Repro (synth) as one of their favorite LIBRARIES 






Your top 25 libraries


So I made a list. I thought it might make for fun discussion. Before I reveal my personal list, a couple notes. I spent over a week fussing about this, it got on my brain and I couldn't let it go. This wasn't just thrown together, I spent a long time moving libraries up and down and into and...




vi-control.net


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## MartinH. (Dec 30, 2019)

halfwalk said:


> If you use a word, and everybody knows what you're talking about when you use it, then you used the correct word. Should we end colloquialisms and metaphors too?



If you leave that shit unchecked, it can bring out the worst in people or at the very least make the language devolve into a cringeworthy memefest circlejerk that is borderline incomprehensible to the outsiders and varying degrees of tiring for the insiders. Not all change is good. And it makes it harder for beginners to learn or find relevant information when the terminology is changing all the time.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 30, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Devolving when it creates confusion.


That isn't necessarily true. Slang words can cause confusion at first, but then they're generally understood and accepted. That's how language evolves.

The devolving occurs when you refuse to adapt.


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## brek (Dec 30, 2019)

Talking to other "seasoned" media composers, "VSTs" is second nature. 
Talking to students or "traditional" musicians that don't use them, I try to stick with "virtual instruments."


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## Mike Fox (Dec 30, 2019)

brek said:


> Talking to other "seasoned" media composers, "VSTs" is second nature.
> Talking to students or "traditional" musicians that don't use them, I try to stick with "virtual instruments."


 I think this is an excellent point. Your audience and context is everything.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> I don't even remember it. I remember Weymouth. We moved when I was 11 I think. I'm on my 13th state now...but I know how to say Worcester. I think.


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## halfwalk (Dec 30, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> No, that is a matter of different names in different languages.
> 
> Come on, surely you guys _have_ to be smarter than this.



What a cute way of calling me stupid. I was going to elaborate on my point about speaker meaning versus sentence meaning, a well studied and thoroughly debated concept of linguistics, but you just saved me some time by front-loading your ad hominem fallacy. Cheers.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2019)

brek said:


> Talking to other "seasoned" media composers, "VSTs" is second nature.
> Talking to students or "traditional" musicians that don't use them, I try to stick with "virtual instruments."



Well I could start name dropping my famous Logic clients, which I won't, but I will tell you that none of them use the terms interchangeably.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2019)

halfwalk said:


> What a cute way of calling me stupid. I was going to elaborate on my point about speaker meaning versus sentence meaning, a well studied and thoroughly debated concept of linguistics, but you just saved me some time by front-loading your ad hominem fallacy. Cheers.



It wasn't directed at you personally. My guess is that nobody here thinks it's a _good_ idea to use the two terms interchangeably, they just like to argue and are digging in their heels.


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## chrisr (Dec 30, 2019)

DAW has always slightly irked me. I'd rather just say workstation (or even sequencer). The "audio" bit is usually a given for the context in which it's used, and the "digital" bit is implied also... or rather... having used a fair chunk of analogue kit, none of it was ever referred to as a workstation, so I can't see where any confusion might arise from the usage of the noun without the adjectives.

I've never heard anyone refer to their "DAW" in conversation without a hint of awkwardness, so perhaps I'm not alone in holding this view... ?


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## JEPA (Dec 30, 2019)

FYI it is false to use "VI" or "VIs". The correct way is: V.I. or V.Is (with dots). "VI" means six in the roman nomenclature... Musicologically talking an appropriate way of abbreviate a "Virtual Instrument" would be V.I. after Sachs-Hornbostel 

I can swear the old VI-Control front page was "V.I.-Control". Does anybody has a snapshot of the old front page? @Mike Greene ?


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2019)

chrisr said:


> DAW has always slightly irked me. I'd rather just say workstation (or even sequencer). The "audio" bit is usually a given for the context in which it's used, and the "digital" bit is implied also... or rather... having used a fair chunk of analogue kit, none of it was ever referred to as a workstation, so I can't see where any confusion might arise from the usage of the noun without the adjectives.
> 
> I've never heard anyone refer to their "DAW" in conversation without a hint of awkwardness, so perhaps I'm not alone in holding this view... ?




Also, some people mean the computer rig (which I think is the more accurate use, not sure) and some the application they use.


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## gpax (Dec 30, 2019)

Saxer said:


> It‘s like people use the term „base drum“ for „bass drum“.
> Sometimes it‘s really crazy here on vst-control.


While we are on it, some forum members do realize that “Shure” is a brand of microphone, right? 

It is a _sure_ bet that this word will get misspelled at least once a week in this forum, lol.


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## PerryD (Dec 30, 2019)

Traditional music terminology is hard enough. Imagine how a sentence like this might appear to a newbie: "My favorite libraries include; CSS, CSSS, CSB, SM S&ES, EWHSO and BBCSO." Ha! Aside from PDF manuals, not a single book to be found in any of these "libraries." There should be a comprehensive database for software based music creation terminology and library abbreviations. Compiling and keeping it current would be much less fun than playing music.


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## Philip Vasta (Dec 30, 2019)

ysnyvz said:


> VST: Virtual studio technology
> AU: Audio unit
> AAX: Avid audio extension
> MAS: Motu audio system





ysnyvz said:


> VST: Virtual studio technology
> AU: Audio unit
> AAX: Avid audio extension
> MAS: Motu audio system



I unintentionally read that as "Avid Audio Extortion"


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## ag75 (Dec 30, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> I don't even remember it. I remember Weymouth. We moved when I was 11 I think. I'm on my 13th state now...but I know how to say Worcester. I think.


And Peabody... 😂


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## bvaughn0402 (Dec 30, 2019)

I bought a VST and it won't open in Logic. I thought Logic could use third party virtual instruments.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2019)

bvaughn0402 said:


> I bought a VST and it won't open in Logic. I thought Logic could use third party virtual instruments.



Shoot me now.


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## Uiroo (Dec 30, 2019)

*V*irtual In*S*trumen*T. *What's the problem with that? :D


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## Wally Garten (Dec 30, 2019)

I don't see how there can be confusion when every thread I've ever seen where somebody used "VST" "incorrectly" got at least one comment letting everyone know how very WRONG that is. The borders are well-policed on this issue, at least on VIC and the Reddit communities I frequent.

Now can we _please_ get back to the important stuff, like the correct pronunciation of "gif"?


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## Wally Garten (Dec 30, 2019)

Also, someone please let me know how I can get a refund for all these Kontakt libraries I bought through vstbuzz.com. I see now that that was wrong.


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## Zero&One (Dec 30, 2019)

VSTs in Logic are among the best.

They give that warm analog sound I desire. Cutting through the mix, whilst adding that bite I require.
Everything the man promised on YouTube... and more!


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## pkm (Dec 30, 2019)

An OST is the album release, not the score itself!


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## Quasar (Dec 30, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> It’s a plug-in format, ,like AU, AAX, MAS.
> 
> Please stop using the term incorrectly.
> 
> Thank you.


Is it okay if I make it a verb? As in: "I am VSTing with my Orange Tree Samples Evolution Dracus."?


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## Wally Garten (Dec 30, 2019)

pkm said:


> An OST is the album release, not the score itself!



Shots fired!


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## Geoff Grace (Dec 30, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> VST can now join the following:
> 
> 
> "I'll Xerox that".
> ...


I generally cringe when I see VST (or VSTi) used instead of VI—especially on "VI Control" of all places—but I sadly have to agree that it's become a generic term, like "Kleenex" for facial tissue.

Sometimes these uses fall out of favor. For example, it had been at least a decade since I'd heard anyone refer to photocopying as Xeroxing until *Sears Poncho* posted it above. I'm not willing to tilt at windmills to influence people to stop calling VIs VSTs, but I heartily hope it will happen.

Best,

Geoff


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## CT (Dec 30, 2019)

Can someone recommend the best VST's for making epic OST's thank you.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 30, 2019)

I agree with Jay vehemently. As I've posted many times before, this is the hill I die on.

Real men and women call them V.I.s. "VSTs" chafes my anus.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 30, 2019)

One cannot stress the importance of this highly enough.


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## Kent (Dec 30, 2019)

I’d say it does make a difference. Here is a post from as recent as yesterday on the Logic Facebook group:





“Solved” because Logic _does_ use AUs, which many people were quick to point out.
But still, very confusing for beginners!


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## sIR dORT (Dec 30, 2019)

Let's change the forum name to VST Control.


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## bill5 (Dec 30, 2019)

OK......as someone who both loves music production and also writes for a living I've read this entire thread and have to give my .02:


To the OP: first, you should have titled this "VST is not a synonym for plugin" vs "Virtual Instrument" as that is clearly your overall complaint. 



Ashermusic said:


> VSTs, AUs, etc. are not interchangeable


At a conceptual level, yes they are. They're all plugins. And since VSTs are by far the most common, it's easy to see why this term is used, just like Xeroxing a memo, googling something, etc. I get that this is a pet peeve, we all have them, but IMO it's really not so out of bounds as you're implying. Accept that this is a pet peeve of yours vs being so "wrong." 



> Anyway, why spread ignorance? Don't be what we refer to in Boston as a chowderhead.


I believe you mean "chowdahead" 




muk said:


> Which VST compliments the ones I already have the best?


I didn't even know VSTs could talk!




Ashermusic said:


> Everybody does NOT know what you are talking about.


 Pretty close to it, I suspect. 



> You are adding confusion. I see that all over the Internet. People write stupid stuff like, "I bought a VST and it won't open in Logic. I thought Logic could use third party virtual instruments."


Perhaps you should spend less time on the internet.  Said the guy who spends way too much time on the internet, lol. Yet I have never seen such a statement. Maybe I'm just lucky in visiting sites with smarter people. Like here. 




Saxer said:


> It‘s like people use the term „base drum“ for „bass drum“.


Not the same thing. That's simply not knowing how to spell, or worse, not knowing the difference between the two words. Kind of like confusing "there" vs "their," or (my pet peeve) "buss." There's no such word as "buss." 




Ashermusic said:


> It wasn't directed at you personally. My guess is that nobody here thinks it's a good idea to use the two terms interchangeably, they just like to argue and are digging in their heels.


I'd say it's more likely that most just don't give a rat's ass. VST, plugin...most everyone knows what we're talking about. 



JEPA said:


> FYI it is false to use "VI" or "VIs". The correct way is: V.I. or V.Is (with dots). "VI" means six in the roman nomenclature...


Nah. It has become commonplace to omit the "dots" in acronyms. That's been true for quite some time now and considered acceptable grammar.




PerryD said:


> There should be a comprehensive database for software based music creation terminology and library abbreviations.


? There are many. Google....I mean, do an internet search. 




Wally Garten said:


> I don't see how there can be confusion when every thread I've ever seen where somebody used "VST" "incorrectly" got at least one comment letting everyone know how very WRONG that is. The borders are well-policed on this issue, at least on VIC and the Reddit communities I frequent.


Sweet, another reason to avoid reddit.


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## JEPA (Dec 30, 2019)

bill5 said:


> Nah. It has become commonplace to omit the "dots" in acronyms. That's been true for quite some time now and considered acceptable grammar.


I was joking... but criticism accepted!


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 30, 2019)

Enough of this tomfoolery. I'm going to the ATM machine, put in my PIN number whilst looking at the LCD display. Then, for all intensive purposes, I'm gonna play my VSTs.


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## CT (Dec 30, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Enough of this tomfoolery. I'm going to the ATM machine, put in my PIN number whilst looking at the LCD display. Then, for all intensive purposes, I'm gonna play my VSTs.



VST's and VI's are one in the same, but irregardless, there is a deep seeded urge to suggest otherwise, case and point, this thread. By in large, the OP has another thing coming, but I could care less.


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## brek (Dec 30, 2019)

This thread is making me loose my mind. I should of never commented.


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## bill5 (Dec 30, 2019)

I'm so gonna hurt you sick ####s.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 30, 2019)

Hey @bill5 buss is actually a word. Not sure you would use it in relation to making music but it may show up in a song....

A buss is a kiss....   kind of old fashioned though.


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## NYC Composer (Dec 30, 2019)

Threads like these result when musicians don’t have enough work.

I need a new hobby-one that doesn’t involve reading 25 gazillion pages about some Junkie brass library or 5 pages of TDS (Terminology Derangement Syndrome.)


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## Geoff Grace (Dec 31, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> I need a new hobby-one that...


...won't make you sick? One that won't make you crash your car, or make you feel three feet thick?

Best,

Geoff


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## Ashermusic (Dec 31, 2019)

miket said:


> VST's and VI's are one in the same, but irregardless, there is a deep seeded urge to suggest otherwise, case and point, this thread. By in large, the OP has another thing coming, but I could care less.



Btw there is no such word as “irregardless.”


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## R. Soul (Dec 31, 2019)

Users of Reaper, Reason, Cubase, Sonar, Nuendo, Studio one, Bitwig, Audition, Live, FL Studio, Tracktion, Samplitude, ACID pro and Mixcraft are generally happy using the term VSTs.


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## GtrString (Dec 31, 2019)

Whaaat, are you saying different words mean different things and shi*. We cant factor in rhizomatic evolution of language anymore?


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## Ashermusic (Dec 31, 2019)

GtrString said:


> Whaaat, are you saying different words mean different things and shi*. We cant factor in rhizomatic evolution of language anymore?



I am saying that when names cease to represent significant differences where there are significant differences, like which applications can use them, it isn’t something peopl who know better should embrace.

So I raised the issue and now people will do what they will do.


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## JEPA (Dec 31, 2019)

R. Soul said:


> Users of Reaper, Reason, Cubase, Sonar, Nuendo, Studio one, Bitwig, Audition, Live, FL Studio, Tracktion, Samplitude, ACID pro and Mixcraft are generally happy using the term VSTs.


That let us Logic users as the "authority" of V.I.'s nomenclature


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## JEPA (Dec 31, 2019)

JEPA said:


> That let us Logic users as the "authority" of V.I.'s nomenclature


btw this is a nonsense... erase this before the first of January 2020


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## sIR dORT (Dec 31, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Threads like these result when musicians don’t have enough work.
> 
> I need a new hobby-one that doesn’t involve reading 25 gazillion pages about some Junkie brass library or 5 pages of TDS (Terminology Derangement Syndrome.)


Or going through the staypuft "demo" thread too. Spent a good hour of my sad life reading thru the posts on that thread.

Also, appearently "irregardless" is a word.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 31, 2019)

sIR dORT said:


> Also, appearently "irregardless" is a word.




From the Oxford Dictionary:

USAGE: *Irregardless* is widely heard, perhaps arising under the influence of such perfectly correct forms as irrespective, but should be avoided by careful users of English. Use regardless to mean ‘without regard or consideration for’ or ‘nevertheless’.


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 31, 2019)

5 pages and no woman screaming VST at a cat. Yet.


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## sIR dORT (Dec 31, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> From the Oxford Dictionary:
> 
> USAGE: *Irregardless* is widely heard, perhaps arising under the influence of such perfectly correct forms as irrespective, but should be avoided by careful users of English. Use regardless to mean ‘without regard or consideration for’ or ‘nevertheless’.


Ehh, I'll go with the default dictionary that comes with Macs rather than the Oxford Dictionary.


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## Michel Simons (Dec 31, 2019)

"Irrigation" is also a word.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 31, 2019)

sIR dORT said:


> Ehh, I'll go with the default dictionary that comes with Macs rather than the Oxford Dictionary.




That IS the default Mac dictionary. (Where is the facepalm emoji when I need it.)


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## Zero&One (Dec 31, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> 5 pages and no woman screaming VST at a cat. Yet.


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## Jacob Cadmus (Dec 31, 2019)

I haven't yet told my girlfriend that her Logic plugins are not VSTs. Does that make me a bad person for not correcting her?


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 31, 2019)

Jacob Cadmus said:


> I haven't yet told my girlfriend that her Logic plugins are not VSTs. Does that make me a bad person for not correcting her?




Look, I am not saying this is the biggest deal in the world, but since it takes zero more effort to use the more accurate term, why not, other than obstinacy?


----------



## NYC Composer (Dec 31, 2019)

Geoff Grace said:


> ...won't make you sick? One that won't make you crash your car, or make you feel three feet thick?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


I heard The News today, oh boy..


----------



## CT (Dec 31, 2019)

While we're at it, it's not "general consensus." The consensus is already general.


----------



## Sears Poncho (Dec 31, 2019)

This thread may go nucular.


----------



## ptram (Dec 31, 2019)

I've a lot of VSTs that are not even VSTs!


----------



## cug (Dec 31, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> I am saying that when names cease to represent significant differences where there are significant differences, like which applications can use them, it isn’t something people who know better should embrace.



I agree. VI is the more accurate term, less likely to confuse others, and best of all, it's 33% faster to type!


----------



## merlinhimself (Dec 31, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Look, I am not saying this is the biggest deal in the world, but since it takes zero more effort to use the more accurate term, why not, other than obstinacy?



I dont think its about being stubborn, it's a matter of being used to it so much that its difficult and tbh not worth constantly correcting yourself over something so small. Somebody says "VST" I immediately get what theyre saying. Languages and the use of words change and will change. Its like someone correcting me saying "I do prefer saying the word VST" to "No, It's 'I doth prefer saying the word VST'"


🤷‍♂️


----------



## dgburns (Dec 31, 2019)

(V)ery (S)alacious (T)hread (i)ndeed

_








Virtual Studio Technology - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




_


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 31, 2019)

merlinhimself said:


> I dont think its about being stubborn, it's a matter of being used to it so much that its difficult and tbh not worth constantly correcting yourself over something so small.



Really? It‘s that difficult to adjust to a term change?

I am a long time Logic user and when the Arrange window became the Main Window and all the other term changes ensued, it took me about ten minutes to adjust. And I am no genius.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 31, 2019)

bill5 said:


> To the OP: first, you should have titled this "VST is not a synonym for plugin" vs "Virtual Instrument" as that is clearly your overall complaint



Actually, it's specifically V.I.s that those cretins call VSTs, not all plug-ins.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 31, 2019)

R. Soul said:


> Users of Reaper, Reason, Cubase, Sonar, Nuendo, Studio one, Bitwig, Audition, Live, FL Studio, Tracktion, Samplitude, ACID pro and Mixcraft are generally happy using the term VSTs.



Those aren't happy users, they're cretins. Serious people just don't lower themselves that far.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 31, 2019)

sIR dORT said:


> Also, appearently "irregardless" is a word.




Is not, and you're not writing good if you use it.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 31, 2019)

Jacob Cadmus said:


> I haven't yet told my girlfriend that her Logic plugins are not VSTs. Does that make me a bad person for not correcting her?



Yes. And your relationship is doomed if she forces you to ignore such an egregious flaw.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 31, 2019)

bill5 said:


> Nah. It has become commonplace to omit the "dots" in acronyms. That's been true for quite some time now and considered acceptable grammar.



True, but I got in the habit of using V.I. to mean VI when I was publishing VI magazine.

So the world will have to live with my dots. But it will not have to live with "VSTs." That's like a racial or religious epithet - totally offensive.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 31, 2019)

merlinhimself said:


> Somebody says "VST" I immediately get what theyre saying



What you don't get is that this is a culture war between wankers who use "VST" and serious musicians who use VI.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 31, 2019)

merlinhimself said:


> I dont think its about being stubborn



Yes it is damn it, and I'm not giving in an inch.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 31, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> I am a long time Logic user and when the Arrange window became the Main Window and all the other term changes ensued, it took me about ten minutes to adjust. And I am no genius.



I am a genius, and I say that's different.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 31, 2019)

This is just a gratuitous post so I can call it an even ten in a row on this important subject.


----------



## merlinhimself (Dec 31, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Really? It‘s that difficult to adjust to a term change?
> 
> I am a long time Logic user and when the Arrange window became the Main Window and all the other term changes ensued, it took me about ten minutes to adjust. And I am no genius.


I'm sorry it bothers you so much that people use the term VST


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 31, 2019)

merlinhimself said:


> I'm sorry it bothers you so much that people use the term VST



it bothers me more than it bothers Jay.


----------



## Zee (Dec 31, 2019)

It's interesting that we're six pages in and no one suggested that Logic should support VSTs and then there won't be confusion


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 31, 2019)

Zee said:


> It's interesting that we're six pages in and no one suggested that Logic should support VSTs and then there won't be confusion



No, everyone else should support AU 🤓


----------



## Geoff Grace (Dec 31, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> it bothers me more than it bothers Jay.


That makes sense, as VI is part of your brand. (I really enjoyed your magazine, by the way.)

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Geoff Grace (Dec 31, 2019)

merlinhimself said:


> I'm sorry it bothers you so much that people use the term VST


I think a lot of conflict could be eased if people did a better job of mirroring. Well done. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 31, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> This thread may go nucular.


Your literally making Jay loose his mined.


----------



## Sears Poncho (Dec 31, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> I heard The News today, oh boy..


That's a great album, Sgt. Pepper. Deep lyrics, like "The girl with colitis goes by".


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 31, 2019)

Zee said:


> It's interesting that we're six pages in and no one suggested that Logic should support VSTs and then there won't be confusion


I wish ProTools would support VSTs. I would have spent a lot less money over the years. There are a lot of free VST plugins but very few RTAS, AAX or AU for that matter.


----------



## Quasar (Dec 31, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> From the Oxford Dictionary:
> 
> USAGE: *Irregardless* is widely heard, perhaps arising under the influence of such perfectly correct forms as irrespective, but should be avoided by careful users of English. Use regardless to mean ‘without regard or consideration for’ or ‘nevertheless’.


Irregardless of that, the fact is that Merriam-Webster and even Oxford eventually catalogue words that were once considered faux-pas, but become "real words" by virtue of the fact that people use them. Language is driven organically, from the ground up, not by academic Lexicon Police. "Irregardless" is one such word; it is now a synonym for "regardless", like it or not.

I still dislike people saying: "I feel nauseous," when what they mean is that they feel nauseated. But this misuse became ubiquitous to the point where the major dictionaries caved and today it's considered an acceptable alternative. Just how it works.

I haven't even noticed people people misusing VST, and I'm usually sensitive to that sort of stuff. But since this proprietary standard has already become a generic term for any plugin format (like Kleenex = tissue paper), the next logical step may well be to use it for denoting VIs, sample libraries or whatever. You can't stop it! LOL.


----------



## markleake (Dec 31, 2019)

Anyways.. yay or neigh ,shooed we care less then they're consensus on irregardless?.


----------



## Sears Poncho (Dec 31, 2019)

1. Happy New Year, Ladies and Gents

2. It's not "cumberbun". It's "cummerbund". This is important.


----------



## Quasar (Dec 31, 2019)

markleake said:


> Anyways.. yay or neigh ,shooed we care less then they're consensus on irregardless?.


I could care less, because, yes, there are some phenomena that I would find so unbelievably trivial that I would have even less concern than I do about the lexical status of "irregardless".

"I could care less" – contrary to much popular opinion – is NOT a misapplication of the phrase "I couldn't care less", but a much more acerbic, sarcastic and nuanced way of expressing one's lack of interest about something.


----------



## markleake (Dec 31, 2019)

Quasar said:


> is NOT a misapplication of the phrase "I couldn't care less", but a much more acerbic, sarcastic and nuanced way of expressing one's lack of interest about something.


This is very true. I find many people who use it this way are clueless though. That's what grates on me. :/

The affable "anyways" is another one. It's so well used now in the material we get from the US, that the cute term has now become the actual main word used in a lot of cases. Ugh.

And you may have noticed my other pet hate is "yay or nay". Far less used, but wow, it triggers me bad. That is one misspelling that brings down my respect for the person using it.


----------



## chocobitz825 (Dec 31, 2019)

I'm dying on this hill. You’ll get correct usage of VST when I get consensus abs correct usage of gif!

#digitalanarchyfornoreason


----------



## NYC Composer (Dec 31, 2019)

Someday I want to watch Nick B explode in an intense fit of exasperation, leaving nothing but a steaming heap of quivering intestines and a glowing bile duct for us to remember him by...but that’s just me.

Ok, back to the argument. Carry on.


----------



## Eckoes (Jan 1, 2020)

OP is correct, but I can’t imagine letting this bother me in the slightest.


----------



## Saxer (Jan 1, 2020)

In my youth all men with long hair were called „Beatles“. Calling all VIs VST is a bit like calling all cars „BMW“ or all watches „Rolex“.
For example: „My neighbour has a Chinese Rolex.“
Oh wait... that‘s true!


----------



## Zedcars (Jan 1, 2020)

PerryD said:


> There should be a comprehensive database for software based music creation terminology and library abbreviations.


There’s a sticky in the Newbie Questions subforum:






Glossary of VI-C Abbreviations


AAF: Able Artist Foundation (link) AAX: Avid Audio Extension (plugin format created for Pro Tools) AB: Adventure Brass (Music Sampling) AD/AD2: Addictive Drums (XLN Audio) AI: Audio Imperia ALB1/ALB2/ALB3/etc: Albion Series (Spitfire) ALBO: Albion ONE (Spitfire) AM: Audio Modeling AMS: Aleatoric...




vi-control.net


----------



## Ashermusic (Jan 1, 2020)

Geoff Grace said:


> That makes sense, as VI is part of your brand. (I really enjoyed your magazine, by the way.)
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



It was a terrific magazine and it’s a damn shame it couldn’t survive.


----------



## Fleer (Jan 1, 2020)

Michel Simons said:


> "Irrigation" is also a word.


A word is a word is a word. 
Very Simple Truth.


----------



## Mike Fox (Jan 1, 2020)




----------



## Fleer (Jan 1, 2020)

Sneaky 👌


----------



## premjj (Jan 1, 2020)

It's one thing to have an opinion about other people making mistakes but to insist that they all fall in line to your way if thinking is at another level.

If it were possible then probably I'd be trying to remove SMS English (b4, gr8, cu..) from the planet.


----------



## Ashermusic (Jan 1, 2020)

premjj said:


> It's one thing to have an opinion about other people making mistakes but to insist that they all fall in line to your way if thinking is at another level.
> 
> If it were possible then probably I'd be trying to remove SMS English (b4, gr8, cu..) from the planet.




I am not insisting, I am suggesting. Strongly, yes, but suggesting. Maybe even pleading?

Again, if this was a difficult thing I would understand the blowback, but it requires no real effort. It's not harder to remember to use VST when it is that actual format and VI when it is multi-format.

Personally, I always want to use the most accurate terminology and I am always grateful to be corrected when I have not done so. 

A famous reporter (can't remember who) wrote a book many years ago decrying the dumbing down of language.

I am with this guy: http://www.frankfuredi.com/intellectualreviews.shtml


----------



## chillbot (Jan 1, 2020)

Zedcars said:


> There’s a sticky in the Newbie Questions subforum:


Ah, thanks for the reminder. Have updated said thread.


----------



## Sears Poncho (Jan 1, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> A famous reporter (can't remember who) wrote a book many years ago decrying the dumbing down of language.


Yeah. There was a musical too. Henry Higgins, Eliza Doolittle, etc? It was fiction: in real life, Eliza got pissed off at Henry for correcting her and despised his "talk-singing". She ran off with Freddy.


----------



## Ashermusic (Jan 1, 2020)

Sears Poncho said:


> Yeah. There was a musical too. Henry Higgins, Eliza Doolittle, etc? It was fiction: in real life, Eliza got pissed off at Henry for correcting her and despised his "talk-singing". She ran off with Freddy.



BUT she learned to speak correctly


----------



## Sears Poncho (Jan 1, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> BUT she learned to speak correctly


Unfortunately, no. She reverted to her old ways, moved to Fargo ND and started selling Amway products.


----------



## Ashermusic (Jan 1, 2020)

Sears Poncho said:


> Unfortunately, no. She reverted to her old ways, moved to Fargo ND and started selling Amway products.



🤣


----------



## JEPA (Jan 1, 2020)

VSTi Next Generation Game Changer Interface


----------



## José Herring (Jan 1, 2020)

Me 1998: VST will never replace real studio gear.

Me 2020: what is real but what we perceive to be real.


----------



## thesteelydane (Jan 1, 2020)

Sears Poncho said:


> 3. The terminology used around here for string playing can be hilarious. Re-bow??? HAAA! Everything is "legato this, legato that" when it usually has little to do with legato. Fingered legato? Dafuq? I let it slide, because of #2.



This! But I also let it slide, because life IS short!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 1, 2020)

Going off the subject - something I would never do under normal circumstances:



Quasar said:


> "Irregardless" is one such word; it is now a synonym for "regardless", like it or not.



There are many examples of one such words, such as "flammable" (the actual word is inflammable).

But the other extreme is arguing that language evolves, ergo every mistake is okay just because people make it. You use "nauseous" as an example. I use "irregardless" as an example.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 1, 2020)

Eckoes said:


> OP is correct, but I can’t imagine letting this bother me in the slightest.



Have you no sense of decency?!


----------



## nolotrippen (Jan 1, 2020)

Sears Poncho said:


> Talking with non-music people-
> 
> Someone: That sounds good, that orchestra.
> Me: It's a Synthesizer.
> Someone: Cool.


"I like that song"

It's not a song, there are no lyrics or even singers.

"Whatever."


----------



## IFM (Jan 1, 2020)

Things like Scotch Tape, Kleenex, Velcro have become synonymous with the products they represent because of branding. I can see how Steinberg's VST format has started to also become this.

However, I am with Jay and Nick that if you mean a VI you don't call it a VST unless specifically talking about format you are trying to use.


----------



## Polkasound (Jan 1, 2020)

I always use proper English when I conversate on this forum.


----------



## dzilizzi (Jan 1, 2020)

Polkasound said:


> I always use proper English when I conversate on this forum.


I actually did go double check this as I've been finding words I thought were totally incorrect were actually acceptable uses now. Forsooth, this language changing is most confusing.


----------



## Quasar (Jan 1, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Going off the subject - something I would never do under normal circumstances:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I fully agree that language, how we use words, is extremely important. But its real importance rests in how it presents substantive content. When a hospital that I know of, for instance, sends out an annual mass email to its employees proclaiming that it's a "drug free zone"... we know what they mean, but what they mean is not what they're saying, and it's these sorts of weaponized lingual bastardizations that are truly destructive as they foster whole frames of reference predicated on non-reality, for as we all know, any modern hospital is a drug-drenched zone... 

...But yeah, this is venturing pretty far off topic, and is probably a discussion for a different time and place. I'm out, off to get my Albion One to sound more VSTish. Love that retro-VST sound!


----------



## Polkasound (Jan 1, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I actually did go double check this as I've been finding words I thought were totally incorrect were actually acceptable uses now. Forsooth, this language changing is most confusing.



Thank you for catching it. Sometimes my humor passes undetected. 



Quasar said:


> But yeah, this is venturing pretty far off topic, and is probably a discussion for a different time and place.



To keep on topic, I agree that people who know the difference should make an effort to use the correct terms, however, I don't recall seeing any examples of intentional misuse. (And if this thread remains on topic, it would surely become _an_ historic event!)


----------



## bill5 (Jan 1, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Btw there is no such word as “irregardless.”


Sorry, that is (unfortunately!) wrong: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-irregardless-a-real-word-heh-heh


----------



## dzilizzi (Jan 1, 2020)

I do sometimes wonder if some of it is caused by the fact that music is worldwide, but English is not. And the fact that all these amazing people for whom English may not even be their second language still manage to converse so well, well I can see why sometimes VSTI and VI may get confusing. Then add those who are new to computer music... it is understandable that the language changes.


----------



## bill5 (Jan 1, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Look, I am not saying this is the biggest deal in the world, but since it takes zero more effort to use the more accurate term, why not, other than obstinacy?


Apathy comes to mind.


----------



## bill5 (Jan 1, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Actually, it's specifically V.I.s that those cretins call VSTs, not all plug-ins.


Which cretins? I generally see VST as a synonym for all plugins much more vs specifically for VIs.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> What you don't get is that this is a culture war between wankers who use "VST" and serious musicians who use VI.


Actually, I think most serious musicians neither use nor understand nor care wtf this is all about. They just wait for the producers and other technogeeks to tell them when to start playing.


----------



## bill5 (Jan 1, 2020)

Quasar said:


> "I could care less" – contrary to much popular opinion – is NOT a misapplication of the phrase "I couldn't care less", but a much more acerbic, sarcastic and nuanced way of expressing one's lack of interest about something.


With extremely rare exception at best, no it's not. It's people not knowing wth they are saying. That's almost as bad as "you've got another thing coming." It's THINK, not thing.


----------



## CT (Jan 1, 2020)

I've long maintained that one of the few lasting, useful parts of my high school education was being introduced to The Elements of Style.


----------



## bill5 (Jan 1, 2020)

Mine was being introduced to Trisha Fischer.


----------



## PerryD (Jan 1, 2020)

Zedcars said:


> There’s a sticky in the Newbie Questions subforum:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Ask, and ye shall receive.


----------



## Loïc D (Jan 2, 2020)

FWIW, the “official” translation of DAW to French is STAN 
Which stands for Station de Travail Audio-Numérique.
We don’t translate VST, AU, etc. since they are branded technologies.

In France, we use “plugin” as well, but our canadian fellows sometimes translate it to “enfichable”.
We use “portable” for both cellphone & laptop, which creates fair confusions.
And “ordinateur” for computer.

Who said we are complicated people ?


----------



## Alex Fraser (Jan 2, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I do sometimes wonder if some of it is caused by the fact that music is worldwide, but English is not. And the fact that all these amazing people for whom English may not even be their second language still manage to converse so well, well I can see why sometimes VSTI and VI may get confusing. Then add those who are new to computer music... it is understandable that the language changes.


Yeah, absolutely. I think us native English speakers sometimes don't realise* how many people are typing in a second language on the forum. I'm always impressed by it and it far exceeds my ability to "ask for an ice-cream" in French.

*Aside, Brits like me replace "z" with "s" on certain words as it's the Queens English.


----------



## markleake (Jan 2, 2020)

bill5 said:


> With extremely rare exception at best, no it's not. It's people not knowing wth they are saying. That's almost as bad as "you've got another thing coming." It's THINK, not thing.


I've heard people use it before and actually mean it here in Oz. It's usually said in jest.


----------



## Geoff Grace (Jan 2, 2020)

Speaking of words that changed over time, how about the pianoforte? The word certainly made more sense than calling the instrument a "piano," as we do today.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Loïc D (Jan 2, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm always impressed by it and it far exceeds my ability to "ask for an ice-cream" in French.


Une glace, s’il-vous-plait.
Or I’d buy you one if you come to Paris.


----------



## Ashermusic (Jan 2, 2020)

Geoff Grace said:


> Speaking of words that changed over time, how about the pianoforte? The word certainly made more sense than calling the instrument a "piano," as we do today.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



Piano is a nickname, like calling Joseph Joe.


----------



## babylonwaves (Jan 2, 2020)

Met some EDM producer recently. I’ve learned, when he started out, he sequenced with Live. And of course, he referred to it as „My Ableton“ - That’s one of my pet hates. But when he told me that he evolved to a multi DAW setup and called it „my Abletons“, I’ve spit my beer over the table laughing and shot him in the head. Works faster than a dictionary 😉 - Happy New Year!


----------



## bill5 (Jan 2, 2020)

markleake said:


> I've heard people use it before and actually mean it here in Oz. It's usually said in jest.


You obviously hang in language-smarterist places than me!


----------



## Michel Simons (Jan 2, 2020)

bill5 said:


> Mine was being introduced to Trisha Fischer.



Ah, Trisha...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 2, 2020)

How can people avoid giving this vitally important subject the deep reflection it warrants?

Fiddling with a sampled violin - one with only a single mic position - while Rome burns.




bill5 said:


> Which cretins? I generally see VST as a synonym for all plugins much more vs specifically for VIs.
> 
> 
> Actually, I think most serious musicians neither use nor understand nor care wtf this is all about. They just wait for the producers and other technogeeks to tell them when to start playing.


----------



## Geoff Grace (Jan 2, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Piano is a nickname, like calling Joseph Joe.


Well, yes and no.

That analogy works in the sense that Joe is an abbreviation of Joseph, and piano is an abbreviation of pianoforte. 

However, shortening Joseph's name to Joe doesn't change its meaning, whereas shortening the pianoforte's name to piano does. 

Lastly, most people know that Joe is a nickname for Joseph, while most people don't know that a piano was ever called a pianoforte. The term has completely fallen out of favor, at least in common parlance. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Ashermusic (Jan 2, 2020)

Geoff Grace said:


> Well, yes and no.
> 
> That analogy works in the sense that Joe is an abbreviation of Joseph, and piano is an abbreviation of pianoforte.
> 
> ...



1. It only changes the meaning in Italian. Sure everyone knows a piano can play both softly and loudly.

2. I hope you are wrong that people are that ignorant.


----------



## VinRice (Jan 2, 2020)

You're, your, yore, yaw - discuss.


----------



## Geoff Grace (Jan 2, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> 1. It only changes the meaning in Italian. Sure everyone knows a piano can play both softly and loudly.


Which makes "piano" an inappropriate name.

I'm surprised to get pushback from you, *Jay*, considering your position against calling VSTs VIs; but I don't want to derail the thread more than I already have, and there's no point in going back and forth, so I'll let it go.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## VinRice (Jan 2, 2020)

"With a rebel yell she cried,
more, maw, moor!..."


----------



## VinRice (Jan 2, 2020)

Apparently my medication has kicked in...


----------



## Ashermusic (Jan 2, 2020)

Geoff Grace said:


> Which makes "piano" an inappropriate name.
> 
> I'm surprised to get pushback from you, *Jay*, considering your position against calling VSTs VIs; but I don't want to derail the thread more than I already have, and there's no point in going back and forth, so I'll let it go.
> 
> ...



Well, one is recent and the other the ship sailed long ago. And like I say, it doesn't mislead anyone because everyone knows it doesn't only play soft, where some Logic user who doesn't know better might buy a VST only to find they can't use it because it doesn't come with an AU.


----------



## Uiroo (Jan 2, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> where some Logic user who doesn't know better might buy a VST only to find they can't use it because it doesn't come with an AU.


Well, if you buy a VST you need to check if it supports AU, simple as that.


----------



## Ashermusic (Jan 2, 2020)

Uiroo said:


> Well, if you buy a VST you need to check if it supports AU, simple as that.




Not if you don't know the difference between a VST and a VI! That's exactly my point. Many, maybe even most, newbies do not.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 2, 2020)

VinRice said:


> You're, your, yore, yaw - discuss.



Y'aw gonna discuss that, ja?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 2, 2020)

Geoff Grace said:


> Which makes "piano" an inappropriate name.
> 
> I'm surprised to get pushback from you, *Jay*, considering your position against calling VSTs VIs; but I don't want to derail the thread more than I already have, and there's no point in going back and forth, so I'll let it go.
> 
> ...



Yeah, Geoff, stop derailing this thread for heaven's sake!

By the way, neither Joseph nor Joe knows what piano or forte mean.

Also, it's absolutely fine to call a cello a VLC. Just don't anyone call a sampled one a cello VST and make me come down there.


----------



## VinRice (Jan 2, 2020)

I think somebody spiked the punch...


----------



## VinRice (Jan 2, 2020)

Aren't hands, like...amazing?


----------



## bill5 (Jan 2, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Not if you don't know the difference between a VST and a VI! That's exactly my point.


Ironic as I'm not sure you do either:

Recapping:

plugin = generic name for any software that is "added" to a main program to provide a specific app or functionality. 
VST = a specific format of an audio plugin, kind of similar to how .doc and .rtf are two file formats of documents. Might be an instrument, might be an effect.
VI = A virtual instrument (hence the name). Not an effect. A VI may be VST format, it may not. If it is, it is generally known as a VSTi.


----------



## markleake (Jan 3, 2020)

True. If we are being picky here, and it seems that's the whole point of the thread, you can't just...


Ashermusic said:


> buy a VST only to find they can't use it because it doesn't come with an AU


They are not _things_. I know what Jay means, but still, wasn't this the original complaint?


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## Ashermusic (Jan 3, 2020)

bill5 said:


> Ironic as I'm not sure you do either:
> 
> Recapping:
> 
> ...



Obviously FX plugins have a format too but I have yet to see an EQ or a compressor referred to as a “VST”, only virtual instruments.

Look, I made a simple suggestion that people reference to virtual instruments as virtual instruments rather than as VSTs because it confuses those who don’t understand plugin format well. If people are unwilling to do it, it bewilders me because it costs nothing and takes little to no effort. But as I have learned over the years, appeals to simple logic often don’t work, so I am done.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 3, 2020)

Well if you really want to get specific, most of the "VSTi's" we are talking about aren't even VST's. They require a VST/AAX/AU player, like Kontakt, to work. They are technically sample libraries in an easy to use format. 

Hmm. So maybe we should call them SLIAETUF's or SLEU's for short?


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## Vik (Jan 3, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Hmm. So maybe we should call them SLIAETUF's or SLEU's for short?


What about just calling them virtual instruments – VIs?


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## micrologus (Jan 3, 2020)

10 pages?!


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## dzilizzi (Jan 3, 2020)

Vik said:


> What about just calling them virtual instruments – VIs?


Now where's the fun in that?


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## j_kranz (Jan 3, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Hmm. So maybe we should call them SLIAETUF's or SLEU's for short?



SLIAETUF-Control forum... I like the sound of that


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## VinRice (Jan 3, 2020)

Plug-ins, virtual instruments and sample libraries. What could be simpler? Calling them all VST's or VSTi's is plainly wrong and shows either a] ignorance of the domain you are trying to operate in (and potential technical difficulties that waste everybody's time) or b] lack of respect for the domain you are trying to operate in. Precision of nomenclature is important in technical and professional environments.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 3, 2020)

VinRice said:


> Aren't hands, like...amazing?



Have you ever contemplated socks? They're just freaky when you really think about them.


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## bill5 (Jan 3, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Obviously FX plugins have a format too but I have yet to see an EQ or a compressor referred to as a “VST”, only virtual instruments.


I was getting that impression, which is why I clarified.  It's all over the place and commonly accepted terminology; surprised you've never seen it.

Pardon if this comes out wrong, and I realize you're saying it's not a big deal, but it really weakens your stance if you get on a soapbox about using or understanding the correct nomenclature, but at same time don't do it yourself. Glass houses and all that. 

And it is of course the very best format. We all agree on that.


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## Vangance (Jan 3, 2020)

bill5 said:


> I was getting that impression, which is why I clarified.  It's all over the place and commonly accepted terminology; surprised you've never seen it.
> 
> Pardon if this comes out wrong, and I realize you're saying it's not a big deal, but it really weakens your stance if you get on a soapbox about using or understanding the correct nomenclature, but at same time don't do it yourself. Glass houses and all that.
> 
> And it is of course the very best format. We all agree on that.


I've followed this thread, and am bewildered how people, grown adults presumably, can twitter on at such length over these tedious semantics to such a pathetically anal level!!
Maybe if you spent more time trying to write some decent music rather than prattle on like comic book guy from the Simpson, you'd make better use of your time. All a bit sad....!


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## VinRice (Jan 3, 2020)

Vangance said:


> I've followed this thread, and am bewildered how people, grown adults presumably, can twitter on at such length over these tedious semantics to such a pathetically anal level!!
> Maybe if you spent more time trying to write some decent music rather than prattle on like comic book guy from the Simpson, you'd make better use of your time. All a bit sad....!



How dare you Sir! We are composers! 'Tis our very nature, nay our duty, to prattle on like idiots for weeks on end until the sheer blind panic of impending deadlines forces an outpouring of creation, the likes of which the world has never seen! This is called 'the Process' and it is sacred. You have much to learn 'New Member'. If your time is so precious that it cannot be wasted on the essential exchange of tedious minutiae and witty bantz, then I wonder why you bothered to grace us with a comment.


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## VinRice (Jan 3, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Have you ever contemplated socks? They're just freaky when you really think about them.



Don't be ridiculous.


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## Frank1985 (Jan 3, 2020)

DIE THREAD, DIE!!!


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## Vangance (Jan 3, 2020)

VinRice said:


> How dare you Sir! We are composers! 'Tis our very nature, nay our duty, to prattle on like idiots for weeks on end until the sheer blind panic of impending deadlines forces an outpouring of creation, the likes of which the world has never seen! This is called 'the Process' and it is sacred. You have much to learn 'New Member'. If your time is so precious that it cannot be wasted on the essential exchange of tedious minutiae and witty bantz, then I wonder why you bothered to grace us with a comment.


Sounds like an extract from Game of Thrones, or some other 'musically' predictable genre that seems to dominate much of these discussions. I doubt the outpouring of 'creation' for yet another epic blockbuster will furnish anything that hasn't been regurgitated a thousand times before if its to be aimed at films per the aforementioned... 
I apologise for my frankness, but it was getting a bit over-nerdy....


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## markleake (Jan 3, 2020)

Vangance said:


> I've followed this thread, and am bewildered how people, grown adults presumably, can twitter on at such length over these tedious semantics to such a pathetically anal level!!


I think you underestimate the human adult capacity to enthusiastically point out where someone else is wrong.


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## chillbot (Jan 3, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Look, I made a simple suggestion that people reference to virtual instruments as virtual instruments rather than as VSTs because it confuses those who don’t understand plugin format well. If people are unwilling to do it, it bewilders me because it costs nothing and takes little to no effort. But as I have learned over the years, appeals to simple logic often don’t work, so I am done.


I totally get it. But I also laugh at, like how we call tissues Kleenex (@IFM already mentioned). @Jdiggity1 would probably have a bunch of them, as he came to the US and was surprised by a few... I use "Hoover" for vacuum and "Tupperware" for... I don't even know what you would call it if not "tupperware". But the worst... the absolute worst... my kids insist on calling their Amazon Fire Tablets "iPads". I correct them every time but... goddammit. And what about "PC" like we say do you have a "PC" or a "Mac"? Well that's only slightly better when we used to call every "PC" an "IBM". I'm afraid it might be a lost cause, Jay Asher...


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## dzilizzi (Jan 3, 2020)

chillbot said:


> I totally get it. But I also laugh at, like how we call tissues Kleenex (@IFM already mentioned). @Jdiggity1 would probably have a bunch of them, as he came to the US and was surprised by a few... I use "Hoover" for vacuum and "Tupperware" for... I don't even know what you would call it if not "tupperware". But the worst... the absolute worst... my kids insist on calling their Amazon Fire Tablets "iPads". I correct them every time but... goddammit. And what about "PC" like we say do you have a "PC" or a "Mac"? Well that's only slightly better when we used to call every "PC" an "IBM". I'm afraid it might be a lost cause, Jay Asher...


This is true, a Mac is technically a PC. Unless, of course, you use it for business. Then I guess it's an OC? Or an SC?


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## thov72 (Jan 4, 2020)

when I go to my vstplugins folder it´s all about .dll wtf???


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 4, 2020)

chillbot said:


> I totally get it.



For me the issue is less that it's confusing than that calling them VSTs is what the less erudite and urbane crowd at, say, KVR-VST calls them. We are more aristocratic around here, where wine is sipped with one's pinky out.


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## VinRice (Jan 4, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> We are more aristocratic around here, where wine is sipped with one's pinky out.



Wait wha?!

Oh, you mean your little finger.


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