# Best Big Band Library



## jimjazzuk (Aug 27, 2018)

Hi guys,

I'm looking for a big band library/libraries to try and create jazzy big band film music. So far I've only come up with Swing More!, and whilst some of it is impressive (brass stabs), some of it not so impressive (saxes sound awful). Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Jim


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## bigcat1969 (Aug 27, 2018)

Broadway Big Band would be the traditional answer though I've only heard demos.

When starting to review Swing More (gotta finish that), I found myself preferring Session Horns Pro in almost every instance. Whether it could be made to sound exactly as you want it I don't know.

Good earlier thread...
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/sample-library-for-big-band.67028/


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## pderbidge (Aug 27, 2018)

I think that Swing and Swing more have a lot to offer but I don't think there is any "One" library that will do it all if ultimate realism is what you are after so getting a few of the best and combing the instruments you like most is a must. I'm no expert on composing big band other than playing trombone in the school Jazz band and being a big fan of the genre. To that end I have done my research and have found these to be the best of the best libraries that exist so far aside from Swing and Swing more which should be considered and I know that I will be adding them to my collection one day.

Broadway Big Band- https://fablesounds.com/broadway-big-band/ I have the Lite version. I've decided that with the price tag of the full version it is better to have the lite version and then some other newer libraries to compliment. I still can't believe they charge what they do for that thing when they could probably sell 3 times as many licenses at half the cost.

CHH Compact (or Full)- https://www.chris-hein-shop.com/chris-hein-horns-compact-33-0.html - I wasn't as impressed with the demos but kept hearing good things about it so when it went on sale I took a chance and I'm impressed. Much more versatility than I expected and more realism than I expected.

WarpIV Music- particularly Screaming Trumpet- http://www.warpivmusic.com/ScreamingTrumpetPro.html - I don't own this one but I do want to get it someday. There is a scaled down version from Realitone here https://realitone.com/screaming-trumpet/

NI's Session Horns Pro (I hear that the lite version doesn't cut it) https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/cinematic/session-horns-pro/ - I do own this one since I have KU11 Ultimate.

Any and all of the brass from Sample Modeling https://www.samplemodeling.com/en/order_trumpet.php
And the saxophones and other "woods" from Audiomodeling- https://swamengine.com/portfolio-item/swam-saxophones/

There are a few others but I believe these to be the best of the bunch to consider.

You might want to take a look at the list here as well https://vi-control.net/community/threads/jazz-ensemble-best-virtual-instruments.51064/


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## DSmolken (Aug 28, 2018)

Also Straight Ahead Jazz Horns, the Impact Soundworks rerelease. Very much geared towards big band.


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## Chris Hein (Aug 28, 2018)

pderbidge said:


> CHH Compact (or Full)- https://www.chris-hein-shop.com/chris-hein-horns-compact-33-0.html - I wasn't as impressed with the demos but kept hearing good things about it so when it went on sale I took a chance and I'm impressed. Much more versatility than I expected and more realism than I expected.


Keep in mind that with the Compact version you got only 10% of the full version. 

Chris Hein


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## Geoff Grace (Aug 28, 2018)

pderbidge said:


> Broadway Big Band- https://fablesounds.com/broadway-big-band/ I have the Lite version. I've decided that with the price tag of the full version it is better to have the lite version and then some other newer libraries to compliment. I still can't believe they charge what they do for that thing when they could probably sell 3 times as many licenses at half the cost.


I agree. If you compare Broadway Big Band and Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, which debuted around the same time and originally cost roughly one arm and one leg, Hollywood Orchestra has come down dramatically in price while Broadway Big Band hasn't.

I attribute that to the level of competition in the two categories. The orchestral library market is glutted with well over a dozen new releases per year, while the big band library market is almost stagnant.

Best,

Geoff


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## jimjazzuk (Aug 28, 2018)

Thanks for your replies guys. I'm fairly new to all this, but I've been hugely impressed with the string libraries (CSS, Joshua Bell Violin), piano libraries and woodwind and brass orchestral libraries. Some of them are extremely realistic and I think most members of the public would struggle to hear the difference between the samples and the real thing. 

So far I've been totally underwhelmed with all the jazz/big band libraries I've heard - they are miles off anything close to the real thing. I'm fooled for only a few seconds at a time before I'm cringing at how false it sounds. Embertone's Clarinet is very nice and the nearest I've heard to any convincing solo woodwind that I could use in a jazz context.


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## dpasdernick (Aug 28, 2018)

jimjazzuk said:


> Thanks for your replies guys. I'm fairly new to all this, but I've been hugely impressed with the string libraries (CSS, Joshua Bell Violin), piano libraries and woodwind and brass orchestral libraries. Some of them are extremely realistic and I think most members of the public would struggle to hear the difference between the samples and the real thing.
> 
> So far I've been totally underwhelmed with all the jazz/big band libraries I've heard - they are miles off anything close to the real thing. I'm fooled for only a few seconds at a time before I'm cringing at how false it sounds. Embertone's Clarinet is very nice and the nearest I've heard to any convincing solo woodwind that I could use in a jazz context.



The Big band sound is so full of nuance and subtleties. While the traditional symphonic orchestra is also capable of a wide range of subtlety it seems more forgiving in the sample world. I saw Brian Setzer and his Big band live a year or so ago and was floored by the sound. Unfortunately samples aren't even close.


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## pderbidge (Aug 29, 2018)

jimjazzuk said:


> Thanks for your replies guys. I'm fairly new to all this, but I've been hugely impressed with the string libraries (CSS, Joshua Bell Violin), piano libraries and woodwind and brass orchestral libraries. Some of them are extremely realistic and I think most members of the public would struggle to hear the difference between the samples and the real thing.
> 
> So far I've been totally underwhelmed with all the jazz/big band libraries I've heard - they are miles off anything close to the real thing. I'm fooled for only a few seconds at a time before I'm cringing at how false it sounds. Embertone's Clarinet is very nice and the nearest I've heard to any convincing solo woodwind that I could use in a jazz context.


I agree and after all the Spitfire and OTS releases I really thought that the next phase of VI focus would be the Jazz genre but as everyone here goes googly eyes for every new orchestral string release there seems to still be more money to be made in that realm. Sigh! If Swing and Swing more got half the attention of these other orchestral libs then maybe the developers would be more incentivized to do more like it but there doesn't seem to be as much love in this community for this genre despite the number of films and TV shows that still have jazz style scores.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 29, 2018)

I did a Big Band project a few years ago, and ended up with this library, I got it on sale...

http://www.vir2.com/instruments/mojo-horn-section/

I personally think it sounds great, but all comes down to what you're looking for.


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## BezO (Aug 29, 2018)

I have a similar thread up. I'm leaning towards Chris Hein, but I was hoping to find something NKS compatible. The Chris Hein library has the sound & instruments I'm looking for. Unless I find something, I'll be going with that.

Big Fish Audio has a page up for Mojo Horns 2, coming soon. I'm curious.


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## ReelToLogic (Aug 29, 2018)

pderbidge said:


> CHH Compact (or Full)- https://www.chris-hein-shop.com/chris-hein-horns-compact-33-0.html - I wasn't as impressed with the demos but kept hearing good things about it so when it went on sale I took a chance and I'm impressed. Much more versatility than I expected and more realism than I expected.



I agree that the CH Horns are fantastic for big band type music. The tone is great and I love the fact that you can add very realistic trills at the the end of a note.


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## Vovique (Aug 29, 2018)

I still very much use an amazing NI Kore player library "Kontakt Sax and Brass". As I recall, Chris Hein himself did the scripting and managed to combine separate brass instruments in amazing sections with that very classic big band era sound. I have Project Sam Swing, NI Session Horns Pro and Broadway Lites, but "Kontakt Sax and Brass" still sounds better to my ears.


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## pderbidge (Aug 29, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I did a Big Band project a few years ago, and ended up with this library, I got it on sale...
> 
> http://www.vir2.com/instruments/mojo-horn-section/
> 
> I personally think it sounds great, but all comes down to what you're looking for.


This one does sound good but I always felt the price was a little high compared to the newer libraries. At the price of $499 for just horns I would go for the sample modeling bundle for $581


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## Loïc D (Aug 29, 2018)

DSmolken said:


> Also Straight Ahead Jazz Horns, the Impact Soundworks rerelease. Very much geared towards big band.


I'm very tempted by this one and waiting for a discount (Black Friday ?...)
Not only because of the instrument, but also because of their chord arrangement feature that seems to sound so nice out of the box. The online demos are impressive (Tank!).


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 29, 2018)

pderbidge said:


> This one does sound good but I always felt the price was a little high compared to the newer libraries. At the price of $499 for just horns I would go for the sample modeling bundle for $581



Yes, it's not worth the pricetag. But if you get it on sale, it's usually around $199. In addition to the "horns", it also includes sax sections.


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## BezO (Aug 30, 2018)

Vintage Horns & Vintage Horns 2 may be an option. Some of the instruments are VERY specialized though.


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## bcarwell (Aug 31, 2018)

I see no mention of Garritan Jazz and Big Band library. Is that not even in the running ?

Bob


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## o_lli (Sep 20, 2019)

Hi, could anybody explain to me the technical background?
- Can I use these libraries with my MIDI-Arrangements and Cubase or do I always need a special player?
- Can I play them in real time?
- Do I have to fiddle with the controls on each note to get a cool sound, or is there a way to get this done more or less "automatically"?

If I should post this question somewhere else, please let me know.

Oliver


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## DSmolken (Sep 20, 2019)

Yes, yes and almost certainly yes, though with the last question the amount of fiddling will vary. Also, the libraries which allow more fiddling will generally be much more flexible.


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 20, 2019)

I do own the Garritan, which I got at a great price along with some of their other libraries, and figured "why not" as they cover a lot of instruments that others don't. I sort of regret it though, as they don't allow resale, and I'm just finding most of the material too coarse and not so clearly delineated other than for note range, so I'm not sure there's that much point in covering uncommon instruments.

To be fair though, I was already settled in Sample Modeling and Chris Hein based templates by then, so I had little incentive to put a lot of time into it unless I desperately needed a C Melody Sax, for example. And I do find their user manuals meticulously researched and a great learning tool, so those alone were almost worth the price of admission (especially for the World library). Not a fan of ARIA engine though.

I've never liked BBB, ever since its initial release (which I heard at NAMM on the day of announcement). Too harsh and brash for my tastes, and baked-in. But I don't tend to do "large" big band arrangements so may not be the best judge. I need libraries that can handle wind controllers well. And I tend to do smaller section arrangements, even for Broadway-oriented work.

Similarly, the Vir2 stuff and Straight Ahead have felt inauthentic to me in terms of phrasing, unlike Sample Modeling (and even Chris Hein Horns Pro). They have good timbre though, so I keep listening for demos by advanced users vs. the official demos. I may yet be surprised. After all, I was able to eke out MUCH better results from Straight Ahead drums than what I heard on-line. Same with Vir2 stuff.

Although their stuff isn't well-loved around these parts, due to some specific "missing features", I sometimes get EXCELLENT results out of the CMusic products, but surprisingly more so from the Solo Soprano Sax and Trombone than the sections. Their approach is similar to CHH, with radically different instruments and players for the individual patches, making it easy to get a realistic section that doesn't sound like a synth pad. Yet the missing features are a real detriment at times.


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## Bollen (Sep 23, 2019)

If I may... I have been writing professional Big Band arrangements for nearly 20 years now, so I've gone through nearly all of the libraries mentioned above except CH, but I've never heard a good demo from them. Here's my impression and my recommendation at the bottom: 

BBB: overpriced, overhyped crap...! Had it for about 6 months and ended up deleting it from my hard drive. Absolutely awful legatos, poorly sampled, very uneven articulations. In other words, you have to write FOR it, it won't play what you want.

Mojo: a joke! But sweet that they tried... For the price it was worth it. They have some really dirty stuff that occasionally works and the instruments do have a lot of character, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Garritan: a toy. If you like your stuff to sound like a 90s synth then go for it. Also very limited in articulations

Straight Ahead: my biggest regret of all the terabytes I have ever purchased! Fell for the stupid demos and got excited at the price/instrument/articulations ratio. In a nutshell it's pretty awful! Suffers from many of the same flaws as BBB, but it's more badly developed. Legatos are the fakiest of any library I've ever heard, articulations are really uneven, release samples some times don't match at all with the main note, the cross-fade is the worst ever attempted and the articulation list is disappointing. Also their keyswitch customising window is another joke, it's so limited in the amount of notes you can pick that you might as well not had this option at all! 

WARPIV: a total mess, but totally worth it! Think of it as the VSL of jazz/swing/funk. These instruments were sampled meticulously and thoroughly. They have every conceivable articulation and gesture possible with the real instrument, from single shots (sustain, stabs, etc) to phrases, swells, trills, etc. The problem? You don't get a nice tidy instrument with all the options (although I built one myself), instead you get a folder with over a hundred instruments each dedicated to its own articulation. But there is the advantage that because they are not protected behind a script, you can manipulate them in any way you want to achieve whatever you want (e.g. use Time Machine to extend falls, crescendos, adjust runs, etc.)

SampleModelling (SM): unfortunately they don't sell their saxes anymore and the Audiomodelling alternative is very synthy. However, their trumpet and trombones are extraordinary! Some bits sound a bit fake in comparison to WARP (e.g. growl, the static falls, etc.), but overall they are very nice instruments and worth the investment. They also work really well in classical!

So my advice would be get the WARP for your lead instruments and fill the rest of the band with SM. Always program them separate and don't be afraid of using different patches for the same articulation e.g. staccato patch is not always the best choice for a staccato articulation.


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## Lee Blaske (Sep 23, 2019)

I really like using Sample Modeling and Audio Modeling libraries. The results you get will depend on the time invested, and how good your keyboard/wind controller chops happen to be. If you can play the parts in with the right feel, you'll get a good end result. I think the Spectrasonics Trillian Acoustic Bass also works fantastically. And, Screaming Trumpet. If you can add some live playing, it really helps.


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## LHall (Sep 24, 2019)

Here's a short snippet of a track I just did. All horns are SM/AM. Strings are LASS. Straight Ahead Bass, Pianoteq, and Superior 3 Drums. Rough mix before I tweaked a couple of things. Enjoy.


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## Bollen (Sep 24, 2019)

LHall said:


> Here's a short snippet of a track I just did. All horns are SM/AM. Strings are LASS. Straight Ahead Bass, Pianoteq, and Superior 3 Drums. Rough mix before I tweaked a couple of things. Enjoy.


That's a good point, always better to provide audio...! I also forgot to mention VSL as a decent candidate. Here's something I wrote about ten years ago, it's badly mixed and Sibelius performed the playback so it's quite square. All leads are WARP, 2nd chairs are SM for brass and VSL for saxes. The 1st tenor solo is VSL followed by WARP, then they trade...



I'll have a look to see if I can find something better/more recent...


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 24, 2019)

Yes, VSL is great for saxes, but I have barely mentioned them because they are a LOT of work if you want to get the kind of phrasing you get more easily from SM/AM stuff. But the timbre is gorgeous on every sax voicing that they offer.

It might surprise some people to hear this, but the saxophones were the first full library that I bought from VSL, after the Special Edition. I was doing Broadway style arrangements for an otherwise live regular-schedule stage show in San Francisco at the time, and the SM/AM Saxes weren't out yet.

At some point, I may give the VSL Saxes another try in this context; I have been reserving them for my orchestral work so far, and they work great on impressionistic pieces that I have written.


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## jaketanner (Sep 24, 2019)

jimjazzuk said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm looking for a big band library/libraries to try and create jazzy big band film music. So far I've only come up with Swing More!, and whilst some of it is impressive (brass stabs), some of it not so impressive (saxes sound awful). Any other suggestions?
> 
> ...


look at 8DIO...they have a new brass library that might work.


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## Bollen (Sep 24, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Yes, VSL is great for saxes, but I have barely mentioned them because they are a LOT of work if you want to get the kind of phrasing you get more easily from SM/AM stuff. But the timbre is gorgeous on every sax voicing that they offer.
> 
> It might surprise some people to hear this, but the saxophones were the first full library that I bought from VSL, after the Special Edition. I was doing Broadway style arrangements for an otherwise live regular-schedule stage show in San Francisco at the time, and the SM/AM Saxes weren't out yet.
> 
> At some point, I may give the VSL Saxes another try in this context; I have been reserving them for my orchestral work so far, and they work great on impressionistic pieces that I have written.


VSL saxes gorgeous??? Surely you're kidding me... Playability by all acounts, but the tone is abominable! That's why I usually hide them in the 2nd chairs. That's really not how a saxophone should sound, this coming from a professional saxophonist and teacher with an international career and several books.

Here I found another file, same setup a slightly better mix:


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## Ashermusic (Sep 25, 2019)

Bollen said:


> Here's my impression and my recommendation at the bottom:
> 
> BBB: overpriced, overhyped crap...! Had it for about 6 months and ended up deleting it from my hard drive. Absolutely awful legatos, poorly sampled, very uneven articulations. In other words, you have to write FOR it, it won't play what you want.



Overpriced, absolutely. Crap, not in my opinion.


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## Begfred (Sep 25, 2019)

What about Orchestral Tools Glory Day? Looks good from what I heard.


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## MexicanBreed (Sep 25, 2019)

Uhm... What is WARPIV?


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 25, 2019)

Do a web search and you'll be surprised.  You'll first reach a site that is about missile defense and the like. Then you'll notice they also do sample libraries.


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## MexicanBreed (Sep 25, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Do a web search and you'll be surprised.  You'll first reach a site that is about missile defense and the like. Then you'll notice they also do sample libraries.


Huh...to the "T"!


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 25, 2019)

It has to be one of the strangest "dual focus" combinations I have ever seen anywhere!

On the other hand, an awful lot of engineers and scientists are musicians.


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## GtrString (Sep 25, 2019)

I think ProjectSam Swing and Swing More sounds great. You have to understand that they are mixed to work in context out of the box, and work with that in mind. Swing and Swing More already have a sonic signature.

In that signature there is quite a midfocused sound, which is great with brass to cut through a mix, but if you are blending more with other stuff, you might want to dial that a little back with a vintage style eq (and push the mids on the other library patches you are blending it with), to recreate a balanced sound.


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## Rob (Sep 26, 2019)

Bollen said:


> VSL saxes gorgeous??? Surely you're kidding me... Playability by all acounts, but the tone is abominable! That's why I usually hide them in the 2nd chairs. That's really not how a saxophone should sound, this coming from a professional saxophonist and teacher with an international career and several books.
> 
> Here I found another file, same setup a slightly better mix:


Tbh this sounds midi from the first stab to me... no disrespect intended


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## Bollen (Sep 26, 2019)

Rob said:


> Tbh this sounds midi from the first stab to me... no disrespect intended


Oh dear of course not! I have yet to hear any jazz or swing that doesn't immediately sound MIDI to our trained ears. Orchestral music is another matter. Although the above could be improved a lot if it was played in a DAW as opposed to played by a notation program. I was just showcasing WARP's and SM's versatility and articulations. 

Mind you, all of us here at VI-Control are by far the biggest experts in the world at detecting any MIDI/fakeness in a piece of music. The above and many other big band tracks I've made have fooled professional musicians (not that that was the intention)


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 26, 2019)

You should meet my parents then, who rarely like anything that I do. Also true of a fair number of other people I know from their generation; they can't tolerate even the best of mock-ups!


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## Peter Williams (Sep 28, 2019)

Bollen said:


> VSL saxes gorgeous??? Surely you're kidding me... Playability by all acounts, but the tone is abominable! That's why I usually hide them in the 2nd chairs. That's really not how a saxophone should sound, this coming from a professional saxophonist and teacher with an international career and several books.
> 
> Here I found another file, same setup a slightly better mix:


Always need to insert one or more real instruments for these libraries to be really effective, especially with the saxophones. It's just a lot of work to get the right tonal balance. Since you are a player you have a great advantage here.


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 28, 2019)

I reviewed all of my sax parts this week, and found that they all sounded awful when isolated. In fact, after such isolated listening heightened my awareness of the flaws, I couldn't un-hear them in the mix after disengaging the Solo buttons. :-(

Nevertheless, I think in the case of the VSL saxes, which I haven't used in fresh work for some years now, it may just be a matter of adjusting the dynamics to match how they were recorded, along with better use of articulation-switching.

I may find the CMusic and Chris Hein Horns Pro saxes to be my most useful at the moment. But most likely I'm just going to not bother with mock-ups anymore for woodwinds, and just make sure I have enough soundproofing in my new home (coming soon!) that I can record live winds more often.


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## Jaxtone (Jan 13, 2021)

It´s really fun to read all comments in this thread. I feel like a total idiot since most of the librarys are too expensive to buy just to try out if they are acceptable in an arrangement.

I still don´t get which product some of you mean when writing BBB!


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## Saxer (Jan 13, 2021)

Jaxtone said:


> I still don´t get which product some of you mean when writing BBB!


The most expensive one:








Broadway Big Band | Fable Sounds | bestservice.com


Broadway Big Band | Most authentic woodwind, brass, and rhythm section instruments with unparalleled flexibility | For Pop, Funk, Rock, Jazz, Latin, Blues | EN




www.bestservice.com


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## NothingToHide (Jan 13, 2021)

This hasn't been mentioned, if I didn't miss anything ...









Big Band Horns


Glory Days–Big Band Horns is an extensive collection of brass and saxophone instruments. The collection is designed to provide composers & arrangers with a powerful set of tools for scoring all kinds of popular, dance and big band-style cinematic music.




www.orchestraltools.com





Not perfect, but a good choice IMO.


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## Jaxtone (Jan 13, 2021)

Saxer and Nothing to hide!

Thank´s for the answers. I got Broadway Lite and there for sure is a hell lot more work to make it sound somewhere even near of what a human musician delivers. All this work with digital articulations drives me mad and takes an awful lot of time. I wish there was an easier way that didn´t ruin my finances.


I also bought Session Horns and JABB3 but are not sure of any of these.


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## Jaxtone (Jan 30, 2021)

NothingToHide said:


> This hasn't been mentioned, if I didn't miss anything ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW!


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## Mark Schmieder (Feb 8, 2021)

Reviewing this thread, I still think Bollen has the best summary one page back.


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## Getsumen (Feb 8, 2021)

Holy moly 2295$ for BBB?
Never heard of Fable Sounds before. Was that their first library release? 

Thats a uh, very bold price and project they made. (In 2013?) Looking at their youtube page I could only see that they've made videos for repacks of that library.


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## Mark Schmieder (Feb 8, 2021)

Yeah, they were "first to market", and I remember my ears feeling like they were being pierced with an ice pick when I was at their NAMM booth as they were so loud and the samples were so harsh to my ears. Still are!


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## lychee (Feb 9, 2021)

Even if much too expensive, fablesound's solution is certainly one of the best in this field, I was convinced of it especially after seeing this little French animated clip mixing The Mandalorian and Coboy Beebop:



There is a video of the process on the creation of the sound, but it's in French and the composer is a bit too crazy for my taste that the video becomes unbearable, so it's at your own risk.

Otherwise at a "more reasonable" price I would recommend NI Session Horns Pro, which also does the job very well.


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