# Expression in kontakt libraries (CC11)



## dreamnight92 (Jan 6, 2016)

I've been working with play (east west) for long time, now I'm exploring kontakt world, also for programming my own samples. 

When I use play vst I use al lot CC11 (expression volume), and I usually add it also in kontakt libraries even if they don't have it by default. 
So that I edit kontakt patches int his way-->group editing-->edit all groups-->amp-->add CC11, and now I have a big problem: I don't know to set the "scale" of CC11 in kontakt the way that it fits the CC11 I have in play. 

Thanks for helping


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## EvilDragon (Jan 6, 2016)

Click the Mod Shaper button on the CC11 modulator and adjust the curvature as you see fit.


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## Tod (Jan 6, 2016)

dreamnight92 said:


> I've been working with play (east west) for long time, now I'm exploring kontakt world, also for programming my own samples.
> 
> When I use play vst I use al lot CC11 (expression volume), and I usually add it also in kontakt libraries even if they don't have it by default.
> So that I edit kontakt patches int his way-->group editing-->edit all groups-->amp-->add CC11, and now I have a big problem: I don't know to set the "scale" of CC11 in kontakt the way that it fits the CC11 I have in play.
> ...



I have no idea how CC11 is shaped in play, is it not linear? I think all Kontakt's default envelopes are linear. 

I'm not sure what you're after, but if you want more of an exponential curve like the normal CC7, you can just set up CC11 with a lag of around 200 to 225. At least that's the way it's worked for me.


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## dreamnight92 (Jan 7, 2016)

Thank you guys, so I'll try to increase the lag until it fits with CC11 of play. 

Maybe I'll make some tries loading some samples of play on kontakt and comparing CC11 response.


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## dreamnight92 (Jan 7, 2016)

The CC11 on play has a linear response


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## dreamnight92 (Jan 7, 2016)

Actually I'm struggling with LAG parameter: I cannot understand what's changing if I increase it...


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## EvilDragon (Jan 7, 2016)

Response to the respective CC gets smoothed out (slower to respond).


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## Tod (Jan 7, 2016)

dreamnight92 said:


> Actually I'm struggling with LAG parameter: I cannot understand what's changing if I increase it...



Yes, what ED said is right and yes, the default envelope for CC11 is linear.

If I remember correctly, based on the tests I made, a lag of around 225 will give you a curve very similar to the CC7 volume, which I'm sure is exponential.

It's easy to test, all you need is a group with a short sine wave (2 seconds or so) in it. Then test it with both CC7 and CC11.

The way to test it is to play the note (that has the sine wave) with CC7 set to 0 and then shortly after the note starts, put in another CC7 event at 127. Same with CC11.

This will show you the curve of CC7 as well as CC11. Plus you can try different lag amounts, and you'll basically know exactly what you're getting.


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## Tod (Jan 7, 2016)

Okay, I did some quick tests and things have changed a little bit. I think the last time I tested, was with Kontakt 2, so I thought I'd check it with Kontakt 5.

Basically a lag of about 150 now seems to correlate with CC7.


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## dreamnight92 (Jan 9, 2016)

Thanl you guys, I found the settings that works best for me

P.S I have the impression to have already seen you both in a couple of other forums :D


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