# Cinematic Studio Strings - Trills



## earthday (Sep 16, 2019)

Hello,

I am using CSS in Cubase 6.5, and can't get any sound from the trills articulation. I know that two keys have to be pressed (within .25 seconds), but even when I do this there is no sound. I have been following this tutorial to build an expression map:



To verify the problem, I have loaded a new audio track in a new Cubase file, and the problem is happening there as well.

Yet, I've checked the samples through file browser in Kontakt, and they work fine.

Really appeciate any assistance.

Thanks.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Sep 16, 2019)

Does it only fail to work with your expression map? (In this case it would help if you could attach the expression map).
Or does it not work at all?


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## Scamper (Sep 16, 2019)

Generally, if you have the trills selected and play both notes of the whole-tone or half-tone interval at about the same time, it should work.
0.25 seconds seems a bit slow, that doesn't work for me. I'd play both at about the same time, starting with the lower main note.

The manual says, the second note needs to be played within 25ms after the first.


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## Fry777 (Sep 16, 2019)

Paging @Akarin


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## earthday (Sep 16, 2019)

Thank you so much for your replies, really appreciate any help.

1) I don’t think it’s an expression map issue, because I opened a whole new Cubase file, loaded kontakt and opened a violas multi I have made, and there was still no trill. So there was no expression mapping here. Could it be my multi I wonder - probably not because other articulations such as sustain, marcato etc work fine.

I know the samples are fine, because I have loaded them through the file browser.

Something to note, I don’t have a midi keyboard, so paint the notes in. When painting, and trying to get the trill to work, I paint two notes, one above the other, and one starts a fraction after the other.

Also, if I drag a note up and down the piano roll, I can hear the trill after a few seconds, but it’s so faint/low in volume that it’s almost like there’s no sound. My Harmonic articulation is also very low.

Thanks again.

P.s. aren’t at home now, but can upload the expression map tonight if that helps, even though I don’t think that’s the issue.


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## earthday (Sep 16, 2019)

Scamper said:


> Generally, if you have the trills selected and play both notes of the whole-tone or half-tone interval at about the same time, it should work.
> 0.25 seconds seems a bit slow, that doesn't work for me. I'd play both at about the same time, starting with the lower main note.
> 
> The manual says, the second note needs to be played within 25ms after the first.


Yes, sorry my mistake, I meant .025s. I saw that in the manual but mis-typed it above.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Sep 16, 2019)

The cc1 (dynamics assigned to modwheel by default) controls the dynamics of the trills too Have you drawn something in for the dynamics too?
You will have very low or almost no output if it is set too low.


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## Scamper (Sep 16, 2019)

earthday said:


> Also, if I drag a note up and down the piano roll, I can hear the trill after a few seconds, but it’s so faint/low in volume that it’s almost like there’s no sound. My Harmonic articulation is also very low.



Yes, if there is sound, you need to use the modwheel/CC1 to change the dynamics and make it louder.

I don't know, if you still need it, but I put up a midi file with some examples for trills. If you import it and use the CSS violas with trills activated and legato deactivated, this should work.


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## earthday (Sep 16, 2019)

You guys are the best... thanks so much.

When I get home tonight i’ll try using the mod wheel in kontakt to change the dynamics. I don’t have a hardware mod wheel. (I’ll also do some reading on dynamics.)

@Scamper thanks for the mid file, i’ll import that tonight as well.

Really grateful, thanks again.


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## earthday (Sep 17, 2019)

Scamper said:


> I don't know, if you still need it, but I put up a midi file with some examples for trills.



This was very useful, thanks.

So the solution was a couple of things. Firstly, yes I needed to increase the dynamics, which I did through a Controller lane in Cubase (modulation CC1). But that was only part of the solution. The notes in @Scamper's .mid file played perfect trill when I moved the section to the track which has my multi on it. The notes I had painted in were way too far apart, well beyond a whole tone which is a no-no as I just read in the manual.

With that sorted, I have one more issue, and one question:

1) My Harmonics are still very low/faint, even when played on the keyboard in Kontakt. I have the velocity set at 120, and the modulation CC1 at maximum.

2) Modulation CC1 seems to affect the volume - when that is high, the samples play louder. But it's not 'volume' per se, so what is it, and should I use it to make certain samples louder and softer?

FYI, I have attached my expression maps. As per the tutorial (link in an earlier post), One for Violins, Cellos, Viola; one for Basses; and one for Full Ensemble.


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## Scamper (Sep 17, 2019)

earthday said:


> 1) My Harmonics are still very low/faint, even when played on the keyboard in Kontakt. I have the velocity set at 120, and the modulation CC1 at maximum.
> 
> 2) Modulation CC1 seems to affect the volume - when that is high, the samples play louder. But it's not 'volume' per se, so what is it, and should I use it to make certain samples louder and softer?



1) It is normal, that the harmonics are quieter than other articulations like sustains. The playing technique for the harmonics naturally results in a quieter sound.

2) When you bring dynamics into your tracks or want to change volume of instruments, it is usually not good, to just use a volume control. What you want is to control the dynamics using CC1 (usually for long notes) and key velocity (mostly short notes).
The instruments are recorded at different dynamics like quiet/piano and loud/forte and with a change of volume also comes a change in timbre. The sound will usually go more intense and rougher, the louder the instrument plays, which is very important to use to get a more realistic sound.

For most orchestral libraries, it will be CC1 for long notes and key velocity for short notes, but some are using different controls or alternative methods. In any case, it's important to know and to use these to get the best sound and realism out of your libraries.


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## earthday (Sep 17, 2019)

Also, you made reference to 'Dynamics', but in the above I keep referring to 'Modulation CC1'. Within the attached, should I be adjusting the Dynamics (which is highlighted)?


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## earthday (Sep 17, 2019)

Scamper said:


> 2) When you bring dynamics into your tracks or want to change volume of instruments, it is usually not good, to just use a volume control. What you want is to control the dynamics using CC1 (usually for long notes) and key velocity (mostly short notes).
> The instruments are recorded at different dynamics like quiet/piano and loud/forte and with a change of volume also comes a change in timbre. The sound will usually go more intense and rougher, the louder the instrument plays, which is very important to use to get a more realistic sound.



Thanks, this is really useful... and makes sense. Appreciate you explaining it.


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## Scamper (Sep 17, 2019)

earthday said:


> Also, you made reference to 'Dynamics', but in the above I keep referring to 'Modulation CC1'. Within the attached, should I be adjusting the Dynamics (which is highlighted)?



Sorry, I wasn't clear about that.
With dynamics, I just mean generally how quiet and loud the instrument plays. How you control the dynamics is usually with CC1 (Modulation) or the key velocity.

What you have marked there is the dynamic lane of the expression map (?). I have never used this myself, but I think it's another way to input dynamic markings like piano or forte to change the dynamics.
Not sure how this works, but when you use CC1 and velocity, you don't really need it.


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