# Epic Games buys BandCamp



## vitocorleone123 (Mar 2, 2022)

What the....?

https://www.engadget.com/epic-games-acquires-bandcamp-173446180.html

The email I received said



> I’m excited to announce that Bandcamp is joining Epic Games, who you may know as the makers of Fortnite and Unreal Engine, and champions for a fair and open Internet.
> 
> Bandcamp will keep operating as a standalone marketplace and music community, and I will continue to lead our team. The products and services you depend on aren’t going anywhere, we’ll continue to build Bandcamp around our artists-first revenue model (where artists net an average of 82% of every sale), you’ll still have the same control over how you offer your music, Bandcamp Fridays will continue as planned, and the Daily will keep highlighting the diverse, amazing music on the site. However, behind the scenes we’re working with Epic to expand internationally and push development forward across Bandcamp, from basics like our album pages, mobile apps, merch tools, payment system, and search and discovery features, to newer initiatives like our vinyl pressing and live streaming services.
> 
> ...


----------



## Terry93D (Mar 2, 2022)

never seen yet an example of the acquisition of a smaller company by a larger go well for that smaller company or its users.

it may actually be incredible that this hadn't happened already. guess we'll see how long Bandcamp actually does last in its current form.


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Mar 2, 2022)

They put in on their blog as well: https://blog.bandcamp.com/2022/03/02/bandcamp-is-joining-epic/

I bought 500+ albums on Bandcamp and it has been a major gateway to all sorts of experimental music for me, so here's to hoping they won't use Bandcamp as a cashcow and bleed it out.


----------



## Roger Newton (Mar 2, 2022)

Terry93D said:


> never seen yet an example of the acquisition of a smaller company by a larger go well for that smaller company or its users.


And you never will.


----------



## Brasart (Mar 2, 2022)

Something to note is that Epic Games is the only major distribution platform in the video game industry who is pushing for a better revenue share for developers, which is locked at around 30% for stores pretty much everywhere else, so this is a common point with Bandcamp.


----------



## Zanshin (Mar 2, 2022)

I’m with @Brasart

I believe this purchase may be part of Epic’s strategy against Apple. I don’t think it’s bad and may even turn out to be good.


----------



## aeliron (Mar 2, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I’m with @Brasart
> 
> I believe this purchase may be part of Epic’s strategy against Apple. I don’t think it’s a bad thing and may even turn out to be a good thing.


Your music may end up in some video games!


----------



## Zanshin (Mar 2, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Your music may end up in some video games!


Or perhaps Bandcamp crushes iTunes you become rich @aeliron !!!


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Mar 2, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Your music may end up in some video games!


That's not necessarily a good thing.


----------



## aeliron (Mar 2, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> That's not necessarily a good thing.


Well, if they paid you, of course. Else, no.


----------



## MartinH. (Mar 2, 2022)

Terry93D said:


> never seen yet an example of the acquisition of a smaller company by a larger go well for that smaller company or its users.



Have Epic fucked up any of the companies they bought so far? I haven't followed closely, but they may be an exception to the rule. If bandcamp gets bought at all, I'd rather it be Epic than all the others I can think of.


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Mar 2, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Well, if they paid you, of course. Else, no.


If I published any music on Bandcamp, I wouldn't want it in shooters or other violent games tbh. Even when paid.


----------



## J-M (Mar 2, 2022)

This could be a good thing. But probably not...sigh...


----------



## Brasart (Mar 2, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> If I published any music on Bandcamp, I wouldn't want it in shooters or other violent games tbh. Even when paid.


What are you on about? Bandcamp is not going to become some library music platform :-D
And it's the other way around, video game music is one of the most popular section of Bandcamp, and Bandcamp itself is the favorite platform to distribute music on for every indie game composers out there


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Mar 2, 2022)

Brasart said:


> What are you on about?


Huh? I was just reacting to @aeliron 's post


----------



## mopsiflopsi (Mar 2, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> ...so here's to hoping they won't use Bandcamp as a cashcow and bleed it out.


lol I doubt Bandcamp's revenues are the reason they got bought, although I'm sure profitability made it an easier decision.


----------



## Jett Hitt (Mar 2, 2022)

I received the email from Bandcamp today, and I just cringed. I sell an album there, and though it has never done as well there as with cdbaby, it was sort of my last refuge. Apple charges 30% and forces you to be on Apple Music, and Amazon. . . .don't even get me started. I've been comfortable with cdbaby for quite a few years until lately. Now they won't answer the phone, and contacting them is nearly impossible. I have just run out of places to go.


----------



## pinki (Mar 2, 2022)

Wow I just got the email. I hope it's for the best but my gut feels otherwise. Bandcamp are the only mainstream player that felt...good, artist focussed.


----------



## IFM (Mar 2, 2022)

Ya not sure how I feel about this. Epic can pound sand when it comes to crying about platform fees, but then again, Bandcamp doesn't allow me to really market as well as I could as I cannot install a Facebook pixel and there are no integrations with 3rd party CRMs (think MailChimp or Drip). It does have Google Analytics but I haven't delved into that much. 

It does, however, seem to have a better market share for the kind of fantasy cinematic music I write.


----------



## timprebble (Mar 2, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> If bandcamp gets bought at all, I'd rather it be Epic than all the others I can think of.



Do you mean like Spotify? or Tencent?


----------



## MartinH. (Mar 2, 2022)

timprebble said:


> Do you mean like Spotify? or Tencent?



As far as I know tencent is rather "hands off" with their acquisitions, buying only already profitable businessess and letting them make... more profit. I haven't looked into them, I'm sure they are at the core as evil as any big corp. I was thinking more of apple, amazon, microsoft, google. 

I know that Tencent owns a big part of Epic Games, but Tim Sweeney owns more than half, which is what counts, and I have yet to see a reason not to trust him. He's willing to butt heads with Apple and challenge the established revenue share models of existing distribution plattforms in favor of making the deals better for _creators_. Can you name one single individual in a similar position of power, that has done a similar thing? I'd love to hear there's more, but I don't know any.


----------



## timprebble (Mar 2, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Can you name one single individual in a similar position of power, that has done a similar thing? I'd love to hear there's more, but I don't know any.


No idea sorry.

But can you name one single example of a small privately owned niche business being bought out by a large corporation, that has worked out well for all involved? (And by 'all' I really mean the users of the business and not the shareholders of the corporation.) I don't know any.


----------



## Niah2 (Mar 2, 2022)

Wow this came as a shock to me, wasn't expecting this at all. I consider Bandcamp to be my home and it has been such an important part of my life as an independent artist and music lover.

I hope for the best since there is nothing we can really do about it but to keep and eye out and see how it unfolds.


----------



## Roger Newton (Mar 2, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Your music may end up in some video games!


Or it may end up selling for 0.000001 of a cent as they assert strip the company.


----------



## aeliron (Mar 2, 2022)

Roger Newton said:


> Or it may end up selling for 0.000001 of a cent as they assert strip the company.


Well, that’s still an improvement. For me, anyway 😂


----------



## kenose (Mar 2, 2022)

This is a real disappointment, Bandcamp really felt like a place that was on the side of the independent artist. Epic/Tencent owning it definitely kills that whole vibe. 

I have a few niche projects that sell exclusively through Bandcamp, and it feels really odd to have Epic/Tencent pocketing that revenue share… I was always happy to send money Bandcamp’s way knowing they support and create such a great independent platform. 

Now at least some of that rev share is going towards entities that I’m not sure I support…

Really bums me out.


----------



## FireGS (Mar 2, 2022)

Maybe now Bandcamp will institute its own cover song licensing instead of "just expecting" all of their users to know to do it, or how to do it.


----------



## MartinH. (Mar 2, 2022)

timprebble said:


> No idea sorry.
> 
> But can you name one single example of a small privately owned niche business being bought out by a large corporation, that has worked out well for all involved? (And by 'all' I really mean the users of the business and not the shareholders of the corporation.) I don't know any.


Quixel is doing well as far as I know, they were bought by Epic. Their competitor was bought by Adobe and a couple days ago they told me that the page where I access the stuff that I bought in the pre-Adobe era will permanently go offline this year and I should grab what I need now. The first couple of times Epic bought a company I remember I was just as shocked and pessimistic as with all other big-corp acquisitions. But with Epic I haven't heard of any downsides yet. E.g. they bought Art Station and made their learning resources (which was a monthly subscription) accessible for free. As far as I can tell nothing else about the site changed. If employees are less happy there now, let me know. I'd like to believe they are thinking more big picture instead of going for a quick cashgrab - making acquisitions to strengthen their whole ecosystem and the people that contribute to it, or prevent other corps from buying all the promising startups.

Am I comfortable with Epic owning large chunks of an industry? Fuck no! No one should be allowed to corner markets like that. But the way things are, I'd rather see Epic grab some of the good companies before one of the big corps with a worse acquisition track record does it. 

I'm against the whole concept of mega corps and outright buying smaller companies. The older I get the more anti-capitalist my political leanings are. So I definitely sympathize with everyone not happy about it. Reading the news about bandcamp I wasn't happy either, I'd much prefer them to have stayed independant. I'm just not as doom and gloom as most here, because presumably/hopefully I know more about how specifically Epic has been operating in the past and where its leadership stands.


----------



## kenose (Mar 2, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Quixel is doing well as far as I know, they were bought by Epic. Their competitor was bought by Adobe and a couple days ago they told me that the page where I access the stuff that I bought in the pre-Adobe era will permanently go offline this year and I should grab what I need now. The first couple of times Epic bought a company I remember I was just as shocked and pessimistic as with all other big-corp acquisitions. But with Epic I haven't heard of any downsides yet. E.g. they bought Art Station and made their learning resources (which was a monthly subscription) accessible for free. As far as I can tell nothing else about the site changed. If employees are less happy there now, let me know. I'd like to believe they are thinking more big picture instead of going for a quick cashgrab - making acquisitions to strengthen their whole ecosystem and the people that contribute to it, or prevent other corps from buying all the promising startups.
> 
> Am I comfortable with Epic owning large chunks of an industry? Fuck no! No one should be allowed to corner markets like that. But the way things are, I'd rather see Epic grab some of the good companies before one of the big corps with a worse acquisition track record does it.
> 
> I'm against the whole concept of mega corps and outright buying smaller companies. The older I get the more anti-capitalist my political leanings are. So I definitely sympathize with everyone not happy about it. Reading the news about bandcamp I wasn't happy either, I'd much prefer them to have stayed independant. I'm just not as doom and gloom as most here, because presumably/hopefully I know more about how specifically Epic has been operating in the past and where its leadership stands.


Yeah, hopefully at least the platform will be maintained and remain untouched.... we'll see I guess.


----------



## rgames (Mar 2, 2022)

timprebble said:


> No idea sorry.
> 
> But can you name one single example of a small privately owned niche business being bought out by a large corporation, that has worked out well for all involved? (And by 'all' I really mean the users of the business and not the shareholders of the corporation.) I don't know any.


It depends on what you mean by "work out well". If you mean "make more money" then there are plenty of examples. Apple, alone, buys up smaller companies like crazy, as in more than one a week on average. That's their primary means of generating new technology: they buy it, then they assemble the pieces into phones and tablets. There are, of course, some acquisitions that don't work out well. But a lot definitely do otherwise Apple wouldn't keep doing it, and small businesses wouldn't be positioning themselves to be acquired.

Does that mean it'll work out well for Bandcamp? Not necessarily. But there's plenty of precedent to say it could.

rgames


----------



## AceAudioHQ (Mar 2, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> hoping they won't use Bandcamp as a cashcow and bleed it out.


well, at least epic marketplace is the most fair for people who sell game assets, 88% going to the dev


----------



## Kyle Preston (Mar 2, 2022)

Cautiously optimistic about this. Anything that puts pressure on Spotify, Apple, Amazon, etc.. to treat artists better is a good thing. Bandcamp (and from what I can tell, Epic Games) treats creatives like they're _part _of the industry they work in, not just some necessary milk cow of content -- they see artistry as the positive-sum game it is, which gives me hope! We'll see.


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Mar 2, 2022)

AceAudioHQ said:


> well, at least epic marketplace is the most fair for people who sell game assets, 88% going to the dev


The flip side of being a cash cow is that development of the platform can be put under a lot of pressure as the acquired company is integrated in the parent company as time progresses and other projects become more important. Although the statement says Bandcamp will keep running as it always did, as a separate entity, it'll be interesting to see how long that will last and what effect it will have on the service Bandcamp provides and how they provide it.


----------



## darcvision (Mar 2, 2022)

anyone can explain me why this is a bad news? because political stuff like tencent? crypto/NFT stuff in epic games? in my opinion epic games did a great job, example like improving unreal engine 5


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Mar 2, 2022)

darcvision said:


> anyone can explain me why this is a bad news?
> ...
> because political stuff



It's not bad news... yet. The track record for companies buying other companies which aren't in the same market tend to be flaky at best. For now, everything is peachy. Let us just wait and see what happens if figures for game sales drop for Epic and they need to scramble to make investors happy. So yeah, political stuff tends to have a large impact.


----------



## darcvision (Mar 3, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> It's not bad news... yet. The track record for companies buying other companies which aren't in the same market tend to be flaky at best. For now, everything is peachy. Let us just wait and see what happens if figures for game sales drop for Epic and they need to scramble to make investors happy. So yeah, political stuff tends to have a large impact.


yeah, i hope people still want to use bandcamp, its the best place for sharing music


----------



## timprebble (Mar 3, 2022)

rgames said:


> It depends on what you mean by "work out well". If you mean "make more money" then there are plenty of examples. Apple, alone, buys up smaller companies like crazy, as in more than one a week on average. That's their primary means of generating new technology: they buy it, then they assemble the pieces into phones and tablets. There are, of course, some acquisitions that don't work out well. But a lot definitely do otherwise Apple wouldn't keep doing it, and small businesses wouldn't be positioning themselves to be acquired.
> 
> Does that mean it'll work out well for Bandcamp? Not necessarily. But there's plenty of precedent to say it could.
> 
> rgames


There's also plenty of precedent to say it may not. For your Apple example, remember Redmatica and KeymapPro? It doesn't really matter what Apple promised Redmatica, the end result was a major loss for all of the people who supported Redmatica.

But most of all, this is just another reminder that when you use these platforms you rent your relationships.


Maybe useful analysis:




__





Thoughts on Bandcamp being bought by Epic Games


So yesterday brought the news that Bandcamp had been bought by Epic Games. It arrived via a very upbeat email - from Bandcamp founder and CEO Ethan Diamond, and it kicked off a flurry of conversation on Twitter, the vast majority of it skeptical at best and heartbroken at worst.




www.stevelawson.net





Interesting Twitter thread:


----------



## Philip Vasta (Mar 3, 2022)

timprebble said:


> No idea sorry.
> 
> But can you name one single example of a small privately owned niche business being bought out by a large corporation, that has worked out well for all involved? (And by 'all' I really mean the users of the business and not the shareholders of the corporation.) I don't know any.


I’d say Minecraft. To my knowledge, anyway. But I completely agree that acquisitions are tricky and not usually good.


----------

