# A New Synth from Cherry Audio : May 2nd The (Minimode)



## muziksculp (Apr 29, 2022)

I wasn't impressed with the previous release model (Dreamsynth) they released, and I didn't bother buying it.

Maybe this one is more exciting, and has a nicer GUI design. We shall see


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## dcoscina (Apr 29, 2022)

I got Dreamsynth but find I don’t use it too much compared to the other products they have released.


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## Sid Francis (Apr 29, 2022)

I was underwhelmed too but nevertheless excited now .-) the next cherry always is the sweetest, you know? ...


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## tressie5 (Apr 29, 2022)

Given Cherry Audio's interest in all things retro, I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be their take on an EMS VCS3 but with additional dual arpeggiators, full matrix modulation, extra oscillators, modern effects, and maybe even wave sequencing or wavetable creation for good measure.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 30, 2022)

Yamaha CS70M


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## AmbientMile (Apr 30, 2022)

Speaking of Yamaha CS synths Temme, if you ever want to sell your CS5, hit me up first. It would be a blast to have the very first synth I owned again!

EDIT: Good Lord! I just did the math, and I bought mine over 40 years ago!


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## doctoremmet (May 1, 2022)

AmbientMile said:


> Speaking of Yamaha CS synths Temme, if you ever want to sell your CS5, hit me up first. It would be a blast to have the very first synth I owned again!
> 
> EDIT: Good Lord! I just did the math, and I bought mine over 40 years ago!


When I’m heading for the retirement home, I’ll give you a call!


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## AmbientMile (May 1, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> When I’m heading for the retirement home, I’ll give you a call!


DEAL!!!


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## muziksculp (May 2, 2022)




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## muziksculp (May 2, 2022)

MiniMode


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## muziksculp (May 2, 2022)

This was an Instabuy at $39.


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## tressie5 (May 2, 2022)

I am surprised, given we live in an age where Minimonsta, The Legend, Minimoog V and countless other clones are already entrenched. I wish CA rotsa ruck.


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

$39?? Alright fine, I’ll buy it…


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## sostenuto (May 2, 2022)

💤💤💤💤


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## Bee_Abney (May 2, 2022)

While this release looks like an odd choice, I think it makes sense for them long term to have their own Minimoog. Their prices and quality could mean this ends up being the first Moog for future generations of new musicians. 

With the recent Moog effects stack, I did expect something Moog.


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## flampton (May 2, 2022)

I took their hardware/software test earlier this morning, and it was pure Moog, so not sure how this tease wasn't busted way earlier. 

I definitely agree that this synth works for their catalog and those immersed in the Cherry ecosystem. Not so much for me and my Monark.


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## muziksculp (May 2, 2022)




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## Alchemedia (May 2, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> I am surprised, given we live in an age where Minimonsta, The Legend, Minimoog V and countless other clones are already entrenched. I wish CA rotsa ruck.


Not to mention Softube's Model 72, arguably the best of the bunch.


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

Alchemedia said:


> Not to mention Softube's Model 72, arguably the best of the bunch.



Hans said The Legend is the most accurate


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## Alchemedia (May 2, 2022)

KEM said:


> Hans said The Legend is the most accurate


Sold to the highest bidder! 
I suspect he said that before Model 72 was released.


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

Alchemedia said:


> Sold to the highest bidder!



Well I did just buy it like 2 weeks ago during the sale


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## José Herring (May 2, 2022)

Alchemedia said:


> Not to mention Softube's Model 72, arguably the best of the bunch.


I don't know about this one, seems good. 

The Legend though is really powerful. I have no experience with a real Minimoog but am constantly blown away with how musical and analog sounding The Legend is. Doing basses I can see my speaker cones pumping air, YEAH BABY!!!!!


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## sostenuto (May 2, 2022)

Hope so for ~$99.


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I don't know about this one, seems good.
> 
> The Legend though is really powerful. I have no experience with a real Minimoog but am constantly blown away with how musical and analog sounding The Legend is. Doing basses I can see my speaker cones pumping air, YEAH BABY!!!!!



Yeah the low end on The Legend is huge. Analog can go die in a hole, digital can do it all now!!


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## Bee_Abney (May 2, 2022)

KEM said:


> Yeah the low end on The Legend is huge. Analog can go die in a hole, digital can do it all now!!


Including dressing up in the skin of analog and dancing around a totem pole of nostalgia?


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## José Herring (May 2, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Hope so for ~$99.


I'm old enough to remember that when I wanted to get my first Korg synth I had to buy it used for $1,200. Then, I wanted to get the JV-80 and had to settle for the JV880 rackmount version because $800 was all I could afford. Then I of course had to get drums so I ended up getting the EMU drum module which cost me about $600 I think. Of course I needed the mixer so I got the Mackie for $1000 and needed the computer so I got my Mac used for $2000. Then any serious film composer in the 90's needed the Roland S760 because you know Hans had 20. So I got 3 for $3000 each because you couldn't find them on the used market.

Now I build a PC for $1500 and worry about $199 and $99 upgrades and plugins when I already have more than I'll ever really use. I love first world problems!!!!


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## vitocorleone123 (May 2, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Hope so for ~$99.


Model 72 was just on sale for $49.

In terms of sound quality (ie sounding more like analog than digital fwiw), it just edges out The Legend. It is not a huge difference, though once I heard it I couldn't unhear it. On the other hand, The Legend definitely has more modern features. Model 72 has... almost none.

I sold my copy of The Legend and replaced it with Model 72 after comparing them. I’d had The Legend for at least 2 years or more. Zero regrets - only satisfaction.


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Including dressing up in the skin of analog and dancing around a totem pole of nostalgia?



Oh absolutely, best of both worlds


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## José Herring (May 2, 2022)

KEM said:


> Yeah the low end on The Legend is huge. Analog can go die in a hole, digital can do it all now!!


It's true. ZebraHZ proved that soft synths could do it. But still modular had a bit of depth and uniqueness that even Zebra couldn't really match especially on the low end but even in the mid and high range. So I started to build a modular, painfully slow and expensive, and by the time I got all the components necessary (took about 7 years) to get a fully functioning 4 osc Eurorak system..........things like Softube modular VCV rack and even Cherry Audio's modular can completely obliterated it. And things like the Legend can equal or surprise its power on the low end. And composers like JXL completely got rid of their huge modular systems. 
Now I just use my modular for hands on and to get out of the box, not because I need to though. But I swear by the time you run that analog into your preamps and into your daw via converters, I can't tell any more what is what. I use to be able to but not any more. 
I still slightly prefer the modular analog filters though but in all honesty I probably couldn't pick them out in a blind test other than digital filters sound probably cleaner to me. 

On that Cherry audio analog vs. digital test. I failed miserably. I took it 3 times and my highest score was 4 out of 6. And I think that was just luck. My other two test where 3 out of 6 which is the statistical average if I had just guessed.
So if anybody is holding on to the fact that somehow Analog is better, I think they are just dreaming.


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## Bee_Abney (May 2, 2022)

José Herring said:


> It's true. ZebraHZ proved that soft synths could do it. But still modular had a bit of depth and uniqueness that even Zebra couldn't really match especially on the low end but even in the mid and high range. So I started to build a modular, painfully slow and expensive, and by the time I got all the components necessary (took about 7 years) to get a fully functioning 4 osc Eurorak system..........things like Softube modular VCV rack and even Cherry Audio's modular can completely obliterated it. And things like the Legend can equal or surprise its power on the low end. And composers like JXL completely got rid of their huge modular systems.
> Now I just use my modular for hands on and to get out of the box, not because I need to though. But I swear by the time you run that analog into your preamps and into your daw via converters, I can't tell any more what is what. I use to be able to but not any more.
> I still slightly prefer the modular analog filters though but in all honesty I probably couldn't pick them out in a blind test other than digital filters sound probably cleaner to me.
> 
> ...


I have wondered if it is worth running a virtual synth through some hardware analog filters. Or, for that matter, even hardware digital filters (should the specialist hardware in the synth make a difference). Similarly, I wonder whether it is worth re-amping virtual synths through an actual amp and record them with a microphone. At any rate, some hardware in the chain can still be worthwhile - real tape machines, for example.

I could happily use only virtual processing, though; so long as I get to use some physical instruments - especially guitars in my case.


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## vitocorleone123 (May 2, 2022)

José Herring said:


> It's true. ZebraHZ proved that soft synths could do it. But still modular had a bit of depth and uniqueness that even Zebra couldn't really match especially on the low end but even in the mid and high range. So I started to build a modular, painfully slow and expensive, and by the time I got all the components necessary (took about 7 years) to get a fully functioning 4 osc Eurorak system..........things like Softube modular VCV rack and even Cherry Audio's modular can completely obliterated it. And things like the Legend can equal or surprise its power on the low end. And composers like JXL completely got rid of their huge modular systems.
> Now I just use my modular for hands on and to get out of the box, not because I need to though. But I swear by the time you run that analog into your preamps and into your daw via converters, I can't tell any more what is what. I use to be able to but not any more.
> I still slightly prefer the modular analog filters though but in all honesty I probably couldn't pick them out in a blind test other than digital filters sound probably cleaner to me.
> 
> ...


Analog isn't "better" but it still offers differences - for now. Those differences may or may not matter to any individual in a given context. Like any instrument: choose the one(s) that fit the need to make your magic.



> I have wondered if it is worth running a virtual synth through some hardware analog filters. Or, for that matter, even hardware digital filters (should the specialist hardware in the synth make a difference). Similarly, I wonder whether it is worth re-amping virtual synths through an actual amp and record them with a microphone. At any rate, some hardware in the chain can still be worthwhile - real tape machines, for example.


Yes, it can be. I specifically bought an Acidbox3 for this reason, if I want a "little more" than plugins provide. It's in my one hardware FX chain.


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

José Herring said:


> It's true. ZebraHZ proved that soft synths could do it. But still modular had a bit of depth and uniqueness that even Zebra couldn't really match especially on the low end but even in the mid and high range. So I started to build a modular, painfully slow and expensive, and by the time I got all the components necessary (took about 7 years) to get a fully functioning 4 osc Eurorak system..........things like Softube modular VCV rack and even Cherry Audio's modular can completely obliterated it. And things like the Legend can equal or surprise its power on the low end. And composers like JXL completely got rid of their huge modular systems.
> Now I just use my modular for hands on and to get out of the box, not because I need to though. But I swear by the time you run that analog into your preamps and into your daw via converters, I can't tell any more what is what. I use to be able to but not any more.
> I still slightly prefer the modular analog filters though but in all honesty I probably couldn't pick them out in a blind test other than digital filters sound probably cleaner to me.
> 
> ...



Absolutely, people look at me crazy when I tell them I have zero desire to ever own any hardware but for me it just makes the most sense, I will always pick the price and convenience of digital over the sound of analog, we’re at a point with music technology where analog doesn’t even sound “better”, it just sounds “different”, and that difference is not worth a 300x price increase

I always tell people the same example, Hans Zimmer has access to every piece of hardware in existence plus stuff us normal people don’t even have access to and he STILL chooses to just use Zebra, to me that says it all, I don’t need to hear anything else on the matter


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## vitocorleone123 (May 2, 2022)

KEM said:


> Absolutely, people look at me crazy when I tell them I have zero desire to ever own any hardware but for me it just makes the most sense, I will always pick the price and convenience of digital over the sound of analog, we’re at a point with music technology where analog doesn’t even sound “better”, it just sounds “different”, and that difference is not worth a 300x price increase
> 
> I always tell people the same example, Hans Zimmer has access to every piece of hardware in existence plus stuff us normal people don’t even have access to and he STILL chooses to just use Zebra, to me that says it all, I don’t need to hear anything else on the matter


I bet you're missing part of the point: hardware can be more inspiring than software and the interaction can lead you down different paths. But sometimes, given the convenience, people who have deadlines choose software when delivering product. At which point the sound of the hardware explorations can be adapted within software.

Also, "different" can be worth 300x the price increase, but I definitely don't believe it's a Universal Truth. But it can be an individual one.

Example: I absolutely love the sound of the OB-6, and didn't care whether it was analog or digital and didn't even know at first. I first looked for software that sounded identical. It doesn't exist. Since I'd never heard a synth I loved more, I bought the hardware (desktop model). Other people have a similar experience with other hardware synths - even those that have software that for all intents and purposes is identical, or at least very very close (e.g., Juno 106 and Model 84, or Minimoog and Model 72, or Prophet 5 and Repro 5, etc.).


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I bet you're missing part of the point: hardware can be more inspiring than software and the interaction can lead you down different paths. But sometimes, given the convenience, people who have deadlines choose software when delivering product. At which point the sound of the hardware explorations can be adapted within software.
> 
> Also, "different" can be worth 300x the price increase, but I definitely don't believe it's a Universal Truth. But it can be an individual one.
> 
> Example: I absolutely love the sound of the OB-6, and didn't care whether it was analog or digital and didn't even know at first. I first looked for software that sounded identical. It doesn't exist. Since I'd never heard a synth I loved more, I bought the hardware (desktop model). Other people have a similar experience with other hardware synths - even those that have software that for all intents and purposes is identical, or at least very very close (e.g., Juno 106 and Model 84, or Minimoog and Model 72, or Prophet 5 and Repro 5, etc.).



That’s true, I’m only speaking from my own personal experience, I just posted this on Facebook a few minutes ago and have gotten some differing perspectives on it but take for example the Virus TI, I’d love for them to make a TI3 and go own the path UAD just did with Spark where you have the option to run the software natively but if you own their proprietary hardware you can take advantage of the DSP. I love the sound of the Virus and if they gave their plugin a standalone version I would buy it instantly, but it currently being tied to its hardware turns me off on it, even though I love the sound. So if they gave the option to use either workflow I would certainly choose the all digital version, even though those that choose to use the hardware will have the advantage of offloading it from their system, it still would be less convenient for me personally 

This applies to any hardware in general, even if I do love the sound I just don’t think it’s worth the hassle and price, so I’m all digital and couldn’t be happier, I don’t think I’m missing out in anyway


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## kgdrum (May 2, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I have wondered if it is worth running a virtual synth through some hardware analog filters. Or, for that matter, even hardware digital filters (should the specialist hardware in the synth make a difference). Similarly, I wonder whether it is worth re-amping virtual synths through an actual amp and record them with a microphone. At any rate, some hardware in the chain can still be worthwhile - real tape machines, for example.
> 
> I could happily use only virtual processing, though; so long as I get to use some physical instruments - especially guitars in my case.




fwiw: I use the Moog Filter (UAD) and The Drop(Cytomic) with virtual synths quite often as well as saturation and tape plugins…………… I sometimes get them so dirty i feel like I need to take a 🚿!


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## vitocorleone123 (May 2, 2022)

KEM said:


> That’s true, I’m only speaking from my own personal experience, I just posted this on Facebook a few minutes ago and have gotten some differing perspectives on it but take for example the Virus TI, I’d love for them to make a TI3 and go own the path UAD just did with Spark where you have the option to run the software natively but if you own their proprietary hardware you can take advantage of the DSP. I love the sound of the Virus and if they gave their plugin a standalone version I would buy it instantly, but it currently being tied to its hardware turns me off on it, even though I love the sound. So if they gave the option to use either workflow I would certainly choose the all digital version, even though those that choose to use the hardware will have the advantage of offloading it from their system, it still would be less convenient for me personally
> 
> This applies to any hardware in general, even if I do love the sound I just don’t think it’s worth the hassle and price, so I’m all digital and couldn’t be happier, I don’t think I’m missing out in anyway


Side note: there's a "gray area" solution to your digital Virus desires. There's an emulator plugin that's free and some Virus ROMs out there found separately. Put the two together, and you have the sound of a real Virus in your computer. I've heard it (don't have it installed), and it sounds great.

I was using 100% software for music between 1990 and 2018 or so. Didn't even have a MIDI controller for the first 10 years. After getting my first hardware synth to truly and deeply learn subtractive synthesis, and, just for a change, I understood why hardware is still being sold . Over the following couple of years, I added 2 more hardware synths and 4 hardware fx. I may add one more synth - which is all I have space for, but... I'm in no rush. All are desktop models, none currently have software emulations, and all are used with my Keystep 37. I still use lots of software, too, of course!

I'm definitely curious about the new Cherry Audio Minimoog, and think that if it's close to The Legend, which is close to Model 72, then they'll have a winner for the price.


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## Bee_Abney (May 2, 2022)

I believe that Hans Zimmer has a lot of hardware synths too. He has a Knifonium, for example. Maybe that's just the self-indulgence of a wealthy person (who works very hard), but maybe he finds them useful as part of his creative life, even if not at the point of recording.

But you don't have to follow him down that particular road, of course. Be happy that your tastes in at least one aspect of music making are not the most expensive ones!


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## Bee_Abney (May 2, 2022)

kgdrum said:


> fwiw: I use the Moog Filter (UAD) and The Drop(Cytomic) with virtual synths quite often as well as saturation and tape plugins…………… I sometimes get them so dirty i feel like I need to take a 🚿!


That's interesting to know. That you actually shower.


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Side note: there's a "gray area" solution to your digital Virus desires. There's an emulator plugin that's free and a ROM out there separately. Put the two together, and you have the sound of a real Virus in your computer. I've heard it (don't have it installed), and it sounds great.
> 
> I was using 100% software for music between 1990 and 2018 or so. Didn't even have a MIDI controller for the first 10 years. After getting my first hardware synth to truly and deeply learn subtractive synthesis, and, just for a change, I understood why hardware is still being sold . Over the following couple of years, I added 2 more hardware synths and 4 hardware fx. I may add one more, but... meh. All are desktop and all are used with my Keystep 37. I still use software, too, of course.
> 
> I'm definitely curious about the new Cherry Audio Minimoog, and think that if it's close to The Legend, which is close to Model 72, then they'll have a winner.



Sadly all the Virus wannabe stuff out there seems to be PC only, and even the actual Virus doesn’t work on modern Mac’s because they stopped updating it years ago, so I couldn’t even use one if I wanted to, that’s why I’m hoping Access comes back and decides to offer their software natively as well as making new hardware for those that like that workflow


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## vitocorleone123 (May 2, 2022)

KEM said:


> Sadly all the Virus wannabe stuff out there seems to be PC only, and even the actual Virus doesn’t work on modern Mac’s because they stopped updating it years ago, so I couldn’t even use one if I wanted to, that’s why I’m hoping Access comes back and decides to offer their software natively as well as making new hardware for those that like that workflow


It's available on Mac, and runs the actual Virus ROM. There's no "wannabe". It literally is the Virus without the DACs, since the Virus, like all digital synths, is just software in a box. The plugin emulates the Motorola (?) processor of the Virus and some other old digital synths so the Virus ROM runs just as happily as on the actual hardware.

But that's off-topic, so I'll drop it now.


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## kgdrum (May 2, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That's interesting to know. That you actually shower.



I said I feel like I need to take a shower, I never actually said I took one. 
Reading comprehension and cutting back on the whiskey in your tea might be a good idea, my love. 😘


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I believe that Hans Zimmer has a lot of hardware synths too. He has a Knifonium, for example. Maybe that's just the self-indulgence of a wealthy person (who works very hard), but maybe he finds them useful as part of his creative life, even if not at the point of recording.
> 
> But you don't have to follow him down that particular road, of course. Be happy that your tastes in at least one aspect of music making are not the most expensive ones!



He does, he owns basically all the hardware you could imagine, but yet he just uses Zebra 99% of the time. This isn’t me trying to copy him or whatever, I just think it serves as a great example that even at the level where all the hardware imaginable is a reality digital still holds up and can be the preferred choice even. Obviously Zimmer is a massive influence on me so that definitely made me want to stick with digital, and my wallet thanks me for it


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> It's available on Mac, and runs the actual Virus ROM. There's no "wannabe". It literally is the Virus without the DACs, since the Virus, like all digital synths, is just software in a box. The plugin emulates the Motorola (?) processor of the Virus and some other old digital synths so the Virus ROM runs just as happily as on the actual hardware.
> 
> But that's off-topic, so I'll drop it now.



Now that you mention that I did see it and read a bit about it on their website but didn’t look too far into it as I saw it was a very early beta or something, but if it serves as a legit alternative I’ll definitely consider it


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## Bee_Abney (May 2, 2022)

KEM said:


> He does, he owns basically all the hardware you could imagine, but yet he just uses Zebra 99% of the time. This isn’t me trying to copy him or whatever, I just think it serves as a great example that even at the level where all the hardware imaginable is a reality digital still holds up and can be the preferred choice even. Obviously Zimmer is a massive influence on me so that definitely made me want to stick with digital, and my wallet thanks me for it


Oh, I never thought or meant to imply that you wanted to copy him; though of course I was teasing a bit. I just meant that holding up Zimmer as an example of how someone who has good judgement might eschew hardware in favour of software is complicated by the fact that he loves his hardware too. He makes room for both in his life. Plus, Zebra is heavily inspired by hardware, so there is hardware in the chain leading to the instrument he makes so much use of.

I take the point that he uses nearly entirely ZebraHZ for his recording. And that is certainly important too. And I in no way want to suggest that you should get yourself a hardware habit!


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## Bee_Abney (May 2, 2022)

I've listened to the partial presets demo of the Minimode. It sounds pretty good to me. It has some heft to it. I think, from memory, that similar demos of the Model 72 and The Legend impressed me more. I have Model 72, so I'll be sticking with that in any case. But I also have Monark, and that sounds different enough that I use both. So, maybe I've found something new to want in the Minimode, too!


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## Bee_Abney (May 2, 2022)

kgdrum said:


> I said I feel like I need to take a shower, I never actually said I took one.
> Reading comprehension and cutting back on the whiskey in your tea might be a good idea, my love. 😘


I have to confess that I knew that very well. But it seemed funnier to overlook it! And why would I be putting tea in my whisky? It's nighttime here. Tea and whisky is for mornings (or early afternoons - you know, breakfast time!).


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Oh, I never thought or meant to imply that you wanted to copy him; though of course I was teasing a bit. I just meant that holding up Zimmer as an example of how someone who has good judgement might eschew hardware in favour of software is complicated by the fact that he loves his hardware too. He makes room for both in his life. Plus, Zebra is heavily inspired by hardware, so there is hardware in the chain leading to the instrument he makes so much use of.
> 
> I take the point that he uses nearly entirely ZebraHZ for his recording. And that is certainly important too. And I in no way want to suggest that you should get yourself a hardware habit!



No doubt pretty much everything I use is hardware inspired, and I don’t think that’s a bad thing at all, the sound of hardware isn’t what I’m against, it’s the price, limitations, and inconvenience that drives me away. Digital solved those issues by giving access to the sound of analog hardware but at a much more affordable price, almost limitless possibilities, and a convenience factor that makes it much more attractive to me

A real Moog is like $3,000 minimum, whereas The Legend is $100 and sounds basically the exact same, allows me to use presets, and I can open it on my computer and use it whenever and wherever. Does a real Moog sound amazing? Absolutely. Does its sound make up for its limitations? For me, not at all


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## sostenuto (May 2, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Model 72 was just on sale for $49.
> 
> In terms of sound quality (ie sounding more like analog than digital fwiw), it just edges out The Legend. It is not a huge difference, though once I heard it I couldn't unhear it. On the other hand, The Legend definitely has more modern features. Model 72 has... almost none.
> 
> I sold my copy of The Legend and replaced it with Model 72 after comparing them. I’d had The Legend for at least 2 years or more. Zero regrets - only satisfaction.


😂 Good Mod 72 info ! 
My post really knee-jerk reaction after Cherry Audio $39. Intro. 
Maybe long wait for Softube $49. _ Site is $159. 😢


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## kgdrum (May 2, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That's interesting to know. That you actually shower.


Sweet Bee you actually taught me how much time you save with the occasional sponge bath,steel wool and bleach every few days and the almost weekly 🚿
I like that you lead by example.
p.s. With your unique hygiene habits it’s comforting to know when you’re in the vicinity without having to listen to you prattle on endlessly about absolutely nothing 😘

Thanks 👍


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## tressie5 (May 2, 2022)

I've actually been interested in obtaining a hardware synth lately, a desktop since I lack the space. In the past, I've owned a DW8000, FZ-1, TX81Z and an Alesis HR-16 which overheated and shut down often. Since, to my ears, the hardware synths don't sound that much different from software, I figure I'll get more bang for my buck if I invested in a synth that's impossible to create in software, one with a vacuum tube preamp like KingKorg. Sure, there are emulations, but that's not what I mean. I haven't done it because, in the end, I might still realize the software stuff will hold up against it anyway.


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## Bee_Abney (May 2, 2022)

KEM said:


> No doubt pretty much everything I use is hardware inspired, and I don’t think that’s a bad thing at all, the sound of hardware isn’t what I’m against, it’s the price, limitations, and inconvenience that drives me away. Digital solved those issues by giving access to the sound of analog hardware but at a much more affordable price, almost limitless possibilities, and a convenience factor that makes it much more attractive to me
> 
> A real Moog is like $3,000 minimum, whereas The Legend is $100 and sounds basically the exact same, allows me to use presets, and I can open it on my computer and use it whenever and wherever. Does a real Moog sound amazing? Absolutely. Does its sound make up for its limitations? For me, not at all


Although I did see a real Moog desktop unit sell for £260 only today. I wasn't prepared to bid that high, but I was interested to follow to see what price it went for. Obviously, not one of the premium units!

I rather like the idea of software doing what software excels at; the trouble is, so far I seem to like the analog sounds better - real or emulated.

Cherry Audio are, of course, focussed on retro products. But I do worry that the focus on emulating the past, or a different form of technology, could be keeping us from discovering new possibilities. Well, I worry that I'm limiting myself too much. But it may just be the project I'm working on, which is very heavy on analog simulation and samples. It's a bit backwards looking in those ways.


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## KEM (May 2, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Although I did see a real Moog desktop unit sell for £260 only today. I wasn't prepared to bid that high, but I was interested to follow to see what price it went for. Obviously, not one of the premium units!
> 
> I rather like the idea of software doing what software excels at; the trouble is, so far I seem to like the analog sounds better - real or emulated.
> 
> Cherry Audio are, of course, focussed on retro products. But I do worry that the focus on emulating the past, or a different form of technology, could be keeping us from discovering new possibilities. Well, I worry that I'm limiting myself too much. But it may just be the project I'm working on, which is very heavy on analog simulation and samples. It's a bit backwards looking in those ways.



That’s why we have Serum to push the boundaries forward!!


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## AceAudioHQ (May 2, 2022)

I wish they'd hire a better artist. I know it's not a big deal since the sound is what people are after but I do like my slick UI's since I'm a graphics artist myself and cherry's are a bit on the amateurish side


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## vitocorleone123 (May 2, 2022)

AceAudioHQ said:


> I wish they'd hire a better artist. I know it's not a big deal since the sound is what people are after but I do like my slick UI's since I'm a graphics artist myself and cherry's are a bit on the amateurish side


Well. One way to make the synth UI look better and more professional is to use it in Reaper…..

Heheh.


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## sostenuto (May 2, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Well. One way to make the synth UI look better and more professional is to use it in Reaper…..
> 
> Heheh.


Ha Ha ! Yet some may chose DAW based on what it can do, and how easily.  imho
e.g. .... a Track _ is a Track, is a Track,, is a Track


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## Wes Antczak (May 3, 2022)

I came across a video of a 1973 Minimoog on YT...




Edit. Doctor Mix on YT has a 1972 model...


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## method1 (May 3, 2022)

As a recovering analog purist, I just spent some time comparing the memorymode to my Memorymoog (factory patches), the MM is such a characterful synth I wasn't expecting to get such good results out of an emulation.

The filter calibration is a bit different on my MM, probably due to old age, but I was able to get extremely close. The white noise burst in the demo is even (un)intentionally reminiscent of the noisy headphone amp in the Moog 

Good job, will def check out the MINIMODE.


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## Pier (May 3, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I rather like the idea of software doing what software excels at; the trouble is, so far I seem to like the analog sounds better - real or emulated.
> 
> Cherry Audio are, of course, focussed on retro products. But I do worry that the focus on emulating the past, or a different form of technology, could be keeping us from discovering new possibilities. Well, I worry that I'm limiting myself too much. But it may just be the project I'm working on, which is very heavy on analog simulation and samples. It's a bit backwards looking in those ways.


Just do what you love Bee. If you like analog emulations, use that.

I think the real limiting thing is actually worrying about limiting yourself.


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## vitocorleone123 (May 3, 2022)

Pier said:


> Just do what you love Bee. If you like analog emulations, use that.
> 
> I think the real limiting thing is actually worrying about limiting yourself.


I think analog is as much about looking forward as it is back. Stringed instruments and drums go way back further than the 1900s and are still forward looking. Right? New analog synths continue to be released, include those that aren't recreations of something from the past. 

Instruments are just tools (ducks to avoid objects thrown my way). It's the person using the tools that decides how they'll be used and if that music is forward, backward, or outside of time.


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## Pier (May 3, 2022)

BTW how does Memorymode sound regarding the feedback?

It seems this is where the best emulations fall apart (The Legend vs Softube).


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## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

Pier said:


> Just do what you love Bee. If you like analog emulations, use that.
> 
> I think the real limiting thing is actually worrying about limiting yourself.


That's true. Self-editing and ideology (in the broadest sense) is creatively stultifying and all that. But distrusting myself for failing to live up to the ideals that get whispered in my ear by monsters is the central kernel of my creative journey. Or somethin'.


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## Pier (May 3, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I think analog is as much about looking forward as it is back. Stringed instruments and drums go way back further than the 1900s and are still forward looking. Right? New analog synths continue to be released, include those that aren't recreations of something from the past.
> 
> Instruments are just tools (ducks to avoid objects thrown my way). It's the person using the tools that decides how they'll be used and if that music is forward, backward, or outside of time.


Stringed instruments and drums go back many thousands of years!


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## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

I have no problems with old things as a source for inspiration; and I'm not over excited by originality over quality. But I also enjoy the idea of someone - not me, clearly! - exploring the potential of the tools at hand. That's what I try to do with the guitar. With each individual physical guitar that I've played, for that matter, as they are all very different. (Please do not let this build up any expectations for my guitar playing!)


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## Pier (May 3, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I have no problems with old things as a source for inspiration; and I'm not over excited by originality over quality. But I also enjoy the idea of someone - not me, clearly! - exploring the potential of the tools at hand. That's what I try to do with the guitar. With each individual physical guitar that I've played, for that matter, as they are all very different. (Please do not let this build up any expectations for my guitar playing!)


Maybe it's because I'm getting older but "potential" and "innovation" are not things that make me excited anymore. I value "honesty" and "truth" a lot more now.


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## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

Pier said:


> Maybe it's because I'm getting older but "potential" and "innovation" are not things that make me excited anymore. I value "honesty" and "truth" a lot more now.


That's no bad thing at all. For good or ill, I'm connecting them in my thinking about how to approach instruments.


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## Wes Antczak (May 3, 2022)

Pier said:


> BTW how does Memorymode sound regarding the feedback?
> 
> It seems this is where the best emulations fall apart (The Legend vs Softube).



I'm hoping to see Starsky Carr's take on Minimode with an additional comparison between Cherry, the Legend, and Softube. I'm guessing that it's only a matter of time before he gets around to it. 

I do like his commentaries on the various synths that he looks at, which are usually very informative.


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## vitocorleone123 (May 3, 2022)

Wes Antczak said:


> I'm hoping to see Starsky Carr's take on Minimode with an additional comparison between Cherry, the Legend, and Softube. I'm guessing that it's only a matter of time before he gets around to it.
> 
> I do like his commentaries on the various synths that he looks at, which are usually very informative.



One thing typically missing from his isolated analyses is hearing the instruments alongside others. It's nice to see waveforms matching (or not), but it's also nice to hear what they sound like in context. This is one reason why Loopop offers better reviews, I think, than Starsky. Different in nature, but better because Loopop uses what he's reviewing in detail to compose music that plays at the start and especially the end. Same with Automatic Gainsay. But, then, maybe I just skip that part on Starsky's videos... in which case it's all on me.

To me, Model 72 has more "presence" and is more "organic" alongside other synths and drums than The Legend (of course, sometimes more laid back is what is needed - I just use a different synth). Just in raw sound. Of course The Legend can have lots more modulation as well as voices.

I plan to demo the Cherry Audio version this weekend.


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## Wes Antczak (May 23, 2022)

Today would have been Dr. Moog's birthday according to the newsletter from Moog Music. I'm quoting a message from his wife Ileana:

A Special Birthday Message from Bob's Wife, Ileana Grams-Moog​We have the privilege to share a personal message from Bob's wife, Ileana Grams-Moog, composed for the occasion with you all in mind. We hope it brings you a smile today:

_It is always a pleasure to talk or write about Bob, as it gives me the chance to revive happy memories I may not have focused on for a while. Joy, humor, and fun are especially appealing, because they were such wonderful features of Bob's character. 
Bob's vitality and engagement with whatever he was doing stood out when you met him. His smile lit up his face; and his voice, very resonant and mellow, lit up as well when you asked him how he was, and he responded, "Great!" That engagement and enthusiasm was contagious, so that sharing an experience like a dinner, a show, or a trip with him made it so much more enjoyable for me. And it persisted into any conversation you had with him, as he was fully focused on you. If you said anything funny, you got to hear his wonderful hearty laugh as he enjoyed what you said and often responded in kind. 
Bob loved humor. He was a lifelong reader of the New Yorker (his hometown magazine, one could say, though he came from Queens), and the cartoons were his favorite feature. On the weekend, what he most loved to do indoors was to lie down on the sofa with the latest issue, and read it from cover to cover. I could tell when he got to a cartoon that tickled him by the whole-body guffaw he would suddenly give, and I would always go over and see it so I could share it with him. 
Other than Roz Chast, who is still active, I think, most of the cartoonists he loved are no longer around, and their names may be unfamiliar unless you are a fan of old cartoons. He enjoyed quirky drawing, like George Price's or Koren's, and the gentle goofiness of Koren and Barsotti, among others, though he could respond to more pointed and sarcastic wit as well. In general, though, a certain wry incongruity or insightful depiction of human oddness was most likely to touch off his delighted response. A cartoon that stands out for me was one of his favorites: A man is mowing the lawn on a mini-tractor. His wife is watching. The man's thought bubble shows him seated on a monster earth-mover; his wife's shows him as a little boy on a toy tractor. His delight in this cartoon clearly included his awareness of how he felt riding his own farm tractor when we went out to his old house. This self-awareness and gentle self-mockery was part of his character. 
He was certainly a delighted responder to the humor of others—in drawing, writing, or conversation. But he was also a great teller of anecdotes, especially funny ones, and I think everyone who heard him enjoyed it. He was a very acute observer, with insight into how behavior revealed personality and motivation, and he had the rare gift of being able to apply these skills both to painful situations and to himself. So a number of his anecdotes were about situations that might not have seemed funny at the time at all, especially to him. He told me about a very difficult time in his life, when his company had been bought by an investor who insisted that he go on the road to sell shares in the company he was now a subsidiary of. He must have loathed the assignment, but he did it to the very best of his ability. He noticed that his prospects—picked out for him in advance—were men who prized power and prestige, polar opposites to him. 
So, when he was sent to Chicago in the winter, although his taste in clothing ran to comfortable work pants and a work shirt, he bought himself a suede coat with a full fur lining to put over his business suit and tie. His reception, wearing this coat, was dramatically different—it was clear that he was impressing his prospects. The punchline, as he told this story to me, came as he was trying to persuade a prospect of something that wasn't going over well. So he stood up, loomed over the man, and opened his coat to show the full fur lining, at which point the man visibly shrank back and conceded the point Bob saw the resemblance to a dominance contest between animals, and it struck him as funny as well as a sad commentary about how much decision-making is done. 
My retelling lacks the life-giving vividness, enthusiasm, and laughter of Bob's telling, but I hope gets across a tiny bit of the extra-ordinary person I was privileged to be married to.

- Ileana Grams-Moog _


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## outland (May 27, 2022)

Pier said:


> BTW how does Memorymode sound regarding the feedback?
> 
> It seems this is where the best emulations fall apart (The Legend vs Softube).



I do find it so weird that the errors in the feedback on both of these emus seem to be in totally different directions: The Legend is very, shall we say, "reserved" in its feedback while Model 72 seems too forward and harsh, incapable of being tamed to an appropriate level. I know that someone will get it right eventually. I own The Legend and I am demoing Model 72 (haven't checked out Cherry Audio's yet, nor their Taurus emu, but I intend to do that very soon), but, of course, I haven't ever owned a Minimoog, so my evaluation may be flawed on that level. And yet, one wonders: analog synths were hardly monolithic in tone; could it be that the best emus can be seen as just modeling different synths of the same make and model? Have we gotten there yet? Is Pianoteq can make models of the various Steinway, Grotian, Bechstein Petrof, and other pianos that can easily be discerned for the models they are, can we allow for different emulations of a given synth to demonstrate different qualities of different individual units of the same models? Afterall, Joe Zawinul had two ARP2600 (that he referred to as, not surprisingly, "Ein" and "Zwei") because he perceived different tonal proclivities in each one.

FWIW.


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## Bee_Abney (May 27, 2022)

outland said:


> I do find it so weird that the errors in the feedback on both of these emus seem to be in totally different directions: The Legend is very, shall we say, "reserved" in its feedback while Model 72 seems too forward and harsh, incapable of being tamed to an appropriate level. I know that someone will get it right eventually. I own The Legend and I am demoing Model 72 (haven't checked out Cherry Audio's yet, nor their Taurus emu, but I intend to do that very soon), but, of course, I haven't ever owned a Minimoog, so my evaluation may be flawed on that level. And yet, one wonders: analog synths were hardly monolithic in tone; could it be that the best emus can be seen as just modeling different synths of the same make and model? Have we gotten there yet? Is Pianoteq can make models of the various Steinway, Grotian, Bechstein Petrof, and other pianos that can easily be discerned for the models they are, can we allow for different emulations of a given synth to demonstrate different qualities of different individual units of the same models? Afterall, Joe Zawinul had two ARP2600 (that he referred to as, not surprisingly, "Ein" and "Zwei") because he perceived different tonal proclivities in each one.
> 
> FWIW.


I think that is the way emulations are often approached. They pick a specific actual hardware instrument and model that. I don't know if this is typical or not, but I have read of examples where this is definitely the car - TAL U-No Lx, for instance.

Having different emulations of the same model is a little bit like having multiple hardware units. It's nice for putting together your own little ensemble of different individual machines, but the same models.


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## outland (May 27, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I think that is the way emulations are often approached. They pick a specific actual hardware instrument and model that. I don't know if this is typical or not, but I have read of examples where this is definitely the car - TAL U-No Lx, for instance.
> 
> Having different emulations of the same model is a little bit like having multiple hardware units. It's nice for putting together your own little ensemble of different individual machines, but the same models.


Amen. It's just that sometimes when I hear/read a review of a given emulation, I'm not sure that this idea is kept in mind; maybe I'm wrong, but often I get the impression that there is some vague "ideal" Minimoog (or ARP2600, or Oberheim SEM, or....) in the back of the mind of the reviewer. Perhaps we're way past that now. It does seem that way (with few "scruples", of course.)


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## Bee_Abney (May 27, 2022)

outland said:


> Amen. It's just that sometimes when I hear/read a review of a given emulation, I'm not sure that this idea is kept in mind; maybe I'm wrong, but often I get the impression that there is some vague "ideal" Minimoog (or ARP2600, or Oberheim SEM, or....) in the back of the mind of the reviewer. Perhaps we're way past that now. It does seem that way (with few "scruples", of course.)


Fortunately, while I completely understand the desire for realistic, accurate emulations, I have no history with hardware and so am not concerned by it.

Some reviewers are explicit about the variations between individual machines and do make this clear. I do get lost in the specifics of the detailed technical comparisons.

I like a bit of dirt, so I went for Model '72. I'd love to have The Legend too someday, as well as the Minimode and others.


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## Pier (May 27, 2022)

outland said:


> And yet, one wonders: analog synths were hardly monolithic in tone; could it be that the best emus can be seen as just modeling different synths of the same make and model?


In terms of oscs and filters, yeah definitely. But I think the feedback just hasn't been done properly yet.


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## Bee_Abney (May 27, 2022)

Pier said:


> In terms of oscs and filters, yeah definitely. But I think the feedback just hasn't been done properly yet.


From what I've heard - from sources that may be unreliable - vst filters don't yet measure up to hardware, so that can be a limitation on any emulation.


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## Pier (May 27, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> From what I've heard - from sources that may be unreliable - vst filters don't yet measure up to hardware, so that can be a limitation on any emulation.


Have you listened to the demos Charlie posted in the Arturia V Collection thread?






Arturia V collection 9 out now


Note to myself: stop reading these VI-threads. Bought V9, wallet empty, user happy :)




vi-control.net





VST filters are doing great


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## Bee_Abney (May 27, 2022)

Pier said:


> Have you listened to the demos Charlie posted in the Arturia V Collection thread?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, you know that I always believe everything you tell me about synths...

No, I haven't followed that thread, actually. I'll have to look up the demos.


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## Pier (May 27, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Well, you know that I always believe everything you tell me about synths...
> 
> No, I haven't followed that thread, actually. I'll have to look up the demos.


That doesn't mean there aren't crappy VST filters though 😂


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## Bee_Abney (May 27, 2022)

Pier said:


> That doesn't mean there aren't crappy VST filters though 😂


Stop dissing Falcon.


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## Pier (May 27, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Stop dissing Falcon.


I wasn't!

I swear!

Ok... maybe a little.

No, seriously, I was actually thinking about the old Massive


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## Bee_Abney (May 27, 2022)

Pier said:


> I wasn't!
> 
> I swear!
> 
> ...



I don't think the filters are Falcon's strongest point; but it's difficult to say. I love the sounds it makes when someone else has programmed it; so it is probably just that they are not as 'analog' sounding as the other synths I'm more familiar with. They do their job and a couple sound amazing.

The old Massive, I don't know at all. The version of Massive I have is a gorgeous sounding instrument.


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## Pier (May 27, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I don't think the filters are Falcon's strongest point; but it's difficult to say. I love the sounds it makes when someone else has programmed it; so it is probably just that they are not as 'analog' sounding as the other synths I'm more familiar with. They do their job and a couple sound amazing.
> 
> The old Massive, I don't know at all. The version of Massive I have is a gorgeous sounding instrument.


Falcon's filter are fine. Yeah it has a somewhat vanilla default sound but you can make it sound fat and creamy. Actually it reminds me a bit of PhasePlant in this regard.


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