# Is it normal for a work colleague to keep wanting hugs and physical contact?



## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

One of my co-workers is a married woman and I consider her a friend as we group socialise outside work. About 6 months ago she started wanting hugs. I’m a friendly guy who doesn’t want to be negative so I go along with it, even though I’m not a ‘huggy’ person. I rarely hug any of my family apart from my sister’s kids. We are just not into that kind of thing.

Anyway, the hugs are getting more and more frequent several each week. And she seems to like to touch my arms whenever we are talking. We went out the other day socialising in a group and she swapped seats to sit next to me. She bashed her leg as she was changing seats (it was a wooden bench outside). She wanted me to rub it better. I did and then stopped and she said “a bit more but faster”. Sounds funny but it’s true!

When she hugs me she does it tightly and also makes kisses noises by my ear.

We text each other and sometimes her texts are flirtatious but not overly so.

What do you think is going on here? Is this normal and innocent? She seems happily married. I’m just so confused. I’m single and intend to stay that way. I like her but would never want to ruin a happy marriage with any kind of fling or affair. I’m just not like that. Maybe it’s nothing, but it just seems like strange behaviour to me.


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## RogiervG (Aug 14, 2022)

read your own post back, you have given the answer yourself


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> read your own post back, you have given the answer yourself


I guess what I’m asking is does this happen often to other people and should I be concerned? Honestly, I’m clueless when it comes to women or being close to people in general. I just try to treat everyone in a friendly way regardless who they are.


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## Vik (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> I’m single and intend to stay that way.


If you think this is developing towards ‘too much’ (some people simply are more physical than others) maybe you could tell her what you just told us?


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

Vik said:


> If you think this is developing towards ‘too much’ (some people simply are more physical than others) maybe you could tell her what you just told us?


I guess. I don’t want to cause any upset though. She’s a nice and kind person.


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## Honigdachs (Aug 14, 2022)

But she's crossing boundaries you don't feel comfortable with.


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## Lumina Studio (Aug 14, 2022)

The behavior is not normal at all.
Simple. She wants you. She already cheated in her heart. Now she is looking to do that phisically. Sad. This will get even more intense. If i were you  I would tell her that this is off limits of for what is considered a normal friendship, and if this continues, I'll have no choice but speak to her husband about that. This will either stop her. Or most likely she will start hating you and do stuff against you if is in her power. But if you fall for her trap this will ruin you. And if you will enter in a relationship with her she will cheat on you. She will do the same with you. Beware of her. That's my observation and my advice.


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

Honigdachs said:


> But she's crossing boundaries you don't feel comfortable with.


She is. But at the same time I always try to put others needs before my own if it doesn’t impact me too much. If she tried a full on kiss I’d stop her. There are lines in the sand.


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

Lumina Studio said:


> The behavior is not normal at all.
> Simple. She wants you. She already cheated in her heart. Now she is looking to do that phisically. Sad. This will get even more intense. If i were you  I would tell her that this is off limits of for what is considered a normal friendship, and if this continues, I'll have no choice but speak to her husband about that. This will either stop her. Or most likely she will start hating you and do stuff against you if is in her power. But if you fall for her trap this will ruin you. And if you will enter in a relationship with her she will cheat on you. She will do the same with you. Beware of her. That's my observation and my advice.


Thanks. That’s what I wanted advice on. It’s got to the point now where others at work are noticing and commenting. I guess I have had such low self esteem for most of my life that I find it absolutely absurd anyone would want me in any way shape or form. Sad but true. So I find it hard to accept this as her wanting me on any physical level. I’m still thinking it’s just an emotional need she has. I dunno. I’m clueless about this stuff!


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## applegrovebard (Aug 14, 2022)

Even if there is no sexual/romantic subtext no-one should have to just accept more hugging than they are comfortable with. Hugs in our current culture are generally considered good and healthy. Fine, but they can also be oppressive and invasive. I know a woman who tends to greet everyone with deep, meaningful, long, long hugs. I have to put some effort into disengaging. You could just say to the woman that hugs aren't really your thing and don't let her override that.


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

applegrovebard said:


> Even if there is no sexual/romantic subtext no-one should have to just accept more hugging than they are comfortable with. Hugs in our current culture are generally considered good and healthy. Fine, but they can also be oppressive and invasive. I know a woman who tends to greet everyone with deep, meaningful, long, long hugs. I have to put some effort into disengaging. You could just say to the woman that hugs aren't really your thing and don't let her override that.


I did say that to her. But she insisted and she continues to just more or less rush up to me and do it without much warning. This one time I was on my lunch break and was still munching on an Apple and she hugged me while I was seated and barely had time to swallow. I noticed she tends to do it when there are fewer people around.


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## emilio_n (Aug 14, 2022)

I think some people are more physical than others. I am Spanish, but I am living in Asia. I had a lot of misunderstandings at the beginning, just because the culture was different. Maybe she thinks you are a good friend and feels this is normal behaviour.
On the other hand, if you are uncomfortable and think it is not normal if you have a good relationship with her, you can just talk with her about it. She will not feel bad if it is an honest conversation by your side.
If she is looking for something more, that conversation will stop her. Just my two cents...


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## Gerbil (Aug 14, 2022)

I have a close friend who’s exactly like this. She’s an actress and was even my room mate for a year after graduating. We’ve known each other for decades and there’s never been a hint of anything happening.

Important thing to add: I have absolutely no radar for these sorts of things.


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## mybadmemory (Aug 14, 2022)

Could be anything from just the way she is towards people in general, to appreciating the flirtatious vibe you’ve got going but absolutely no intention to ever bring it past that, to wanting an affair or fling, to wanting to leave her husband and pursue you instead.

I guess the point is that it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t intend to peruse it yourself. What she really wanted would be more relevant if you were interested in taking it further as well. But if you’re not, then you set the limits and that’s that.


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## Vik (Aug 14, 2022)

emilio_n said:


> I think some people are more physical than others.


This. Kids are often like that, several women (and not only with men or with only one person). Dogs and cats are like that too!  I wouldn't judge her in any way, just sneak in a sentence in a parenthesis about your lack of interest in a relationship, and see what happens. Then send her to me. :D


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

Well that’s the thing. I’m pretty sure she isn’t like that with others, or at least at work anyway. It’s a female dominated environment (75% female) but there are 6 other guys of different ages. There only time I ever saw her hug another guy was right before she hugged me the first time which makes me think she was just hugging the other guy so it didn’t look out of place with me.


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## MartinH. (Aug 14, 2022)

If you don't want to ask directly, maybe start hugging other female coworkers in front of her and see if she gets jealous? Just kidding of course. 
Or start online dating and ask her for advice and see how she reacts?

A friend of mine just broke up with his girlfriend because she was repeatedly flirty texting with one of his friends. 
Another friend had a similar experience, but worse.
Another friend's girlfriend fell for a co-worker fairly shortly after they had both moved to another city for her new job. 
Another friend's girlfriend cheated on him with her ex. 
A former friend's girlfriend cheated on him with her ex and also with random people she met on parties and her ex was still working for and living with her for some of that time. 

That aren't even all the cheating stories from people I know, just the easiest to remember. Just remembered 2 more, but you get the idea.





Zedcars said:


> Thanks. That’s what I wanted advice on. It’s got to the point now where others at work are noticing and commenting. I guess I have had such low self esteem for most of my life that I find it absolutely absurd anyone would want me in any way shape or form. Sad but true. So I find it hard to accept this as her wanting me on any physical level. I’m still thinking it’s just an emotional need she has. I dunno. I’m clueless about this stuff!


Low self esteem can be rough, I've been there. Missed out on some opportunities because I've had a similar mindset like you in the past. You should work on that, draw some confidence from the fact she really seems to like you (no matter her intentions).


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## Uiroo (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> I always try to put others needs before my own if it doesn’t impact me too much


Just my two cents about that:
I don't consider that a good strategy in life. I get that you want to be good to people, and probably hope that people will be good to you in return.
But look at it this way: Do you want to be with people who *expect* that you put their needs before yours? How do you view people that have this expectation?

If you're really going around putting the needs of others before yours, you're effectively training people around you to go with that. And if they're good people, they have to work against it which is not easy. I think the people you want as your friends are the ones that want you to view your needs as equal to theirs.

Also yeah, she's obviously hitting on you ya dingus  Consider that telling her you're not interested is also being respectful with her time and emotional well being  Nothing worse than hitting on someone who doesn't say if he/she is not interested, even though you make it super obvious.

edit: also nothing wrong with thinking someone is in to you even though the person isn't and saying "sorry not interested". You can be wrong about this stuff, it's fine.


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> Could be anything from just the way she is towards people in general, to appreciating the flirtatious vibe you’ve got going but absolutely no intention to ever bring it past that, to wanting an affair or fling, to wanting to leave her husband and pursue you instead.
> 
> I guess the point is that it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t intend to peruse it yourself. What she really wanted would be more relevant if you were interested in taking it further as well. But if you’re not, then you set the limits and that’s that.


No, I have no interest in having any relationship with anyone and especially not if they are married. I’ve been cheated on numerous times so I vowed to never get into that situation ever again. And as I know how gutty that feels it makes me even more against doing that to another guy and family.


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## gamma-ut (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> I guess what I’m asking is does this happen often to other people and should I be concerned? Honestly, I’m clueless when it comes to women or being close to people in general. I just try to treat everyone in a friendly way regardless who they are.



It is unusual behaviour in a workplace. The odd hug - no problem. But it does sound as though she's having some issues that she's trying to work out in a less-than-good way. It's a tricky one to extricate oneself from as a direct explanation of how you feel can go sour very quickly if she takes it the wrong way. Another option is HR if you have such a department at work, but I'd hesitate to do that as they can be a bit bull-in-a-china-shop more often than not, which will inflame the situation. I suspect she has her own self-esteem issues that may be due to her marriage or some other situation and this is how she's working it out. 

The only thing I can suggest is try to wind down the contact as much as you can. But it's a tricky one and I'm loathe to give "do this" advice because it's very easy to get wrong. Good luck.


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## RogiervG (Aug 14, 2022)

i would just confront her about her behavior, true friends are able to also correct eachother.
if you are not liking her hugging and such, tell her, be open. your feelings count.
but be respectful, try to figure why she does it, etc. ofcourse in a private friendly conversation


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## applegrovebard (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> I did say that to her. But she insisted and she continues to just more or less rush up to me and do it without much warning. This one time I was on my lunch break and was still munching on an Apple and she hugged me while I was seated and barely had time to swallow. I noticed she tends to do it when there are fewer people around.


Well, as in many other cases sometimes you politely indicate that you don't want someone to do something (that you have the right for them not do). If you mention this a couple of times and they take no notice, then they are being rude and disrespectul. So you express yourself a little more firmly and clearly- if necessary, until you are loudly swearing at them, and physically throwing them off you. Some people don't get the message till you do that.


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## Marcus Millfield (Aug 14, 2022)

Could be a cry for help from her part. You should "just" talk about this with her. Just an open conversation about how things are with her and if there is anything she wants to talk to you about.


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

Yeah, good advice. Thank you. Well I’ve already stopped texting her. I will reply if she messages me but I’m not going to instigate a conversation.

She started making up sweet names for me a while ago. “Aw my lil munchkin” or “My lil coconut” etc. Friends don’t do that do they? \_(“.)_/


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## d.healey (Aug 14, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Could be a cry for help from her part. You should "just" talk about this with her. Just an open conversation about how things are with her and if there is anything she wants to talk to you about.


This. I find direct communication is always the quickest and simplest approach to resolve misunderstandings.

Or this:


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## Marcus Millfield (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> Yeah, good advice. Thank you. Well I’ve already stopped texting her. I will reply if she messages me but I’m not going to instigate a conversation.


You indicated she's a good friend of yours. Maybe not bluntly stop texting, but maybe ask if she's in for a one-on-one talk as friends. It's by far the gentlest but most direct way of helping without giving her the feeling you're turning her down/rejecting her. Only if you're up for it off course, keep your own boundaries in mind. You are just as important.


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## Gerbil (Aug 14, 2022)

gamma-ut said:


> The only thing I can suggest is try to wind down the contact as much as you can.


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## Living Fossil (Aug 14, 2022)

Solution:


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## Bee_Abney (Aug 14, 2022)

You're in a rather unpleasant situation there. I've never had quite that experience, but not dissimilar ones. As my preferred approach would be scorched earth - I'd emigrate to a new country - I won't offer any advice! But it may help to list a few reflections:

1. No route forward is easy. So there is no need to worry about the fact that what you decide to do is hard. Dong 'nothing' means enduring something you don't want or understand. Which is hard. Of the many other things that you might do, they all ultimately involve communication of some form.

2. It will only get harder to address this; putting it off has no benefits.

3. If she is unaware of how this affects you, and if she is not cheating in her heart, or whatever, then she is doing nothing wrong. So she deserves better than letting this continue. (Caveat: her behaviour is socially unusual at best and it isn't unreasonable to expect her to know that. In that sense she's doing something wrong. But people, on the whole, are idiots in one way or another and she may well not realise.)

4. You deserve better than you are treating yourself here.

5. You didn't create the situation; but only you seem to know what the situation is. So you are in the best position to address it.

6. So long as you endure this, the friendship is limited in scope and authenticity, and is not adequately reciprocal. You aren't being yourself with her.

7. So, you deserve better and she deserves better (hypothesis), and no-one is at fault; and every way forward is difficult. Might as well speak up.

8. There are many other nice countries you could live in.

My guess, for what it's worth, is that she is enjoying controlling you. This may be subconscious; but she has put herself in a dominant position. She would have to be very unreflective not to see that she has put herself in charge. It may well be tied up with affection; but she is satisfying her needs without understanding yours. I've been controlled before; not rarely. I don't like it but I don't know how to respond without being brutal. I hope you can handle it better!

I wonder, do you have any other friends who have observed the behaviour that you could reach out to? I don't think asking for third-party intervention is likely to be the best way forwards if you want to maintain the friendship. And, as it is a colleague, you'll have to find a way of continuing to interact. But speaking to someone else in person who is 'on the ground' may help boost your confidence, and you might get some useful advice.

Also, it is worth having other people there who know that you are not happy with the situation - someone to know what is really going on from your side. That's good for your wellbeing, and it may also be helpful to have someone as a witness should things go badly.


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## d.healey (Aug 14, 2022)

Send her a link to this thread, problem solved.


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## Thundercat (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> Thanks. That’s what I wanted advice on. It’s got to the point now where others at work are noticing and commenting. I guess I have had such low self esteem for most of my life that I find it absolutely absurd anyone would want me in any way shape or form. Sad but true. So I find it hard to accept this as her wanting me on any physical level. I’m still thinking it’s just an emotional need she has. I dunno. I’m clueless about this stuff!


Hi, you keep saying you are "clueless about this stuff" but I think you are clued in, or you would not have posted anything. Having had very low self esteem for much of my life too, I understand where you're coming from, and have you considered there's a part of you that is enjoying this? It might seem like little risk of getting hurt since she's married and taking all the risk, but it's going on at your work and this kind of thing has a way of coming back to bite you in a bad way.

Maybe do some soul searching and ask yourself are you possibly wanting a relationship or partner, and she is filling a need you may not be acknowledging to yourself?

You are worthy of love. Wonderful, head over heels, happy, practical, can't-live-without-it love. Is this something you can own?

Ultimately you don't need our advice about this "situation" as you already know it's wrong and going to cause trouble. You'll just need to decide if you actually want to put a stop to it, or if it's benefitting you in some way. If it's benefitting you somehow, and these things normally do, then ask yourself if there's another way to get your needs met.

Or, some risqué advice, go with it! Life's too short! (But I think you can do better for yourself!).

Good luck 

Mike

EDIT: "Methinks the lady doth protest too much" came to mind as a way to summarize what may be happening


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## Double Helix (Aug 14, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> . . .My guess, for what it's worth, is that she is enjoying controlling you. This may be subconscious; but she has put herself in a dominant position. She would have to be very unreflective not to see that she has put herself in charge. It may well be tied up with affection; but she is satisfying her needs without understanding yours. . .


^^this^^

I will add that hugging of this degree is generally reserved for middle school & high school girls who haven't seen each other since last semester


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## mybadmemory (Aug 14, 2022)

Double Helix said:


> I will add that hugging of this degree is generally reserved for middle school & high school girls who haven't seen each other since last semester


That’s very different depending on culture though. In Sweden hugging has, over the past 20 years or so, become the norm for greeting and saying goodbye to friends, just like shaking hands, bowing, or kissing on the cheek, depending on where you are in the world. Usually not in the workplace though, but definitely outside of it.


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## Marcus Millfield (Aug 14, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> My guess, for what it's worth, is that she is enjoying controlling you. This may be subconscious; but she has put herself in a dominant position.


People trying to control others is a reflection of their own inability to control certain aspects of their own lives. This is her subconscious reaching out for help.



Double Helix said:


> ^^this^^
> 
> I will add that hugging of this degree is generally reserved for middle school & high school girls who haven't seen each other since last semester


That is a bit shortsighted. Within our inner circle of friends and family hugging is a form of greeting those close to you.


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## AudioLoco (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> One of my co-workers is a married woman and I consider her a friend as we group socialise outside work. About 6 months ago she started wanting hugs. I’m a friendly guy who doesn’t want to be negative so I go along with it, even though I’m not a ‘huggy’ person. I rarely hug any of my family apart from my sister’s kids. We are just not into that kind of thing.
> 
> Anyway, the hugs are getting more and more frequent several each week. And she seems to like to touch my arms whenever we are talking. We went out the other day socialising in a group and she swapped seats to sit next to me. She bashed her leg as she was changing seats (it was a wooden bench outside). She wanted me to rub it better. I did and then stopped and she said “a bit more but faster”. Sounds funny but it’s true!
> 
> ...


If it's not legato composers have absolutely no clue of anything out of the studio



It sounds clear from the description that the female specimen is performing her mating ritual and trying to win the attention of the male specimen. 
Touching the arms is THE giveaway.
Good luck!


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## AudioLoco (Aug 14, 2022)

Lumina Studio said:


> The behavior is not normal at all.
> Simple. She wants you. She already cheated in her heart. Now she is looking to do that phisically. Sad. This will get even more intense. If i were you  I would tell her that this is off limits of for what is considered a normal friendship, and if this continues, I'll have no choice but speak to her husband about that. This will either stop her. Or most likely she will start hating you and do stuff against you if is in her power. But if you fall for her trap this will ruin you. And if you will enter in a relationship with her she will cheat on you. She will do the same with you. Beware of her. That's my observation and my advice.


That's a lot of assumptions and moral judgment with so little info available wow....


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## Double Helix (Aug 14, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> . . . *Within our inner circle of friends and famil*y hugging is a form of greeting those close to you.


I recognize the distinction


EDIT On retrospect, perhaps I might have written that I _acknowledge_ the distinction; I did not intend to imply that you don't


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## Robin Thompson (Aug 14, 2022)

Hugging alone is generally innocent, depending on the culture. I moonlight in community theatre, and reading your headline I instantly thought, "if you work in theatre, yes" - actors are universally huggy people. BUT the constant attention, switching seats, _leg rubbing_... nah that isn't normal in any environment.

But this one is the clincher:



applegrovebard said:


> You could just say to the woman that hugs aren't really your thing and don't let her override that.





> I did say that to her. But she insisted and she continues to just more or less rush up to me and do it without much warning.


There's not one actor I've worked with who wouldn't stop hugging immediately and forever if I asked them to. Not respecting your wishes after you've expressed them is crossing a big line. I won't give you advice on what to do because it depends on what you want. But this is 100% not innocent.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Aug 14, 2022)

... Looks totally normal to me.
Just kidding. Your innocence (or staged innocence ? No judgement here) must be precisely what she finds attractive.


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## PaulieDC (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> She seems happily married.


No she’s not. You are giving her what her husband isn’t, attention And kindness. I’ve been in that situation and was also kind and friendly to the woman, and the worst part, made her laugh. I was single also at the time and didn’t see the harm in being kind to her. Now that I’m married, oh boy, I get it and should have been more careful. I feel bad for your friend but do try to steer her back to her husband, maybe by asking general questions about him or something. I’d refrain from further contact such as the leg rub bit, she’s got hands.

Obviously I really don’t know all of the dynamics of your friendship with her, I’m going off of what happened with me. But if/when she plants the kiss on you, it’s going to get a lot more complicated. Be careful.


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## MusiquedeReve (Aug 14, 2022)

Women summarily ignore me so I have no advice other than to say something if you are uncomfortable


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## Geoff Grace (Aug 14, 2022)

There are books available on setting boundaries that should offer good suggestions on how to broach the subject. My experience is that we don’t all follow the same cultural norms, even if we’ve grown up in the same region. There’s no way to know what’s going on in her mind without discussing the situation. 

On a related note, did the pandemic end and nobody told me? What happened to social distancing?

Best,

Geoff


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## NekujaK (Aug 14, 2022)

Does you workplace have an HR deprtment? If so, I would go to them with this issue. You can keep it anonymous and not identify the woman in question. Just ask for advice on what to do, and go on record that this situation is causing problems for you.

The key here is that this woman's behavior makes you feel uncomfortable. It may also be making other observers of her behavior uncomfortable. And it's also possible that other complaints have also been lodged.

If you don't have an HR department, you could try speaking to your manager.

The goal here isn't to take any punitive action against her, but to find a way to make her aware that her actions are inappropriate and unwelcome. It's also for your own protection in case the situation escalates or goes sideways and she decides to blame you somehow. Best to get in front of it and nip it in the bud.


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## Double Helix (Aug 14, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> Does you workplace have an HR deprtment? If so, I would go to them with this issue. You can keep it anonymous and not identify the woman in question. Just ask for advice on what to do, and go on record that this situation is causing problems for you. . .


I thought about this very thing when I read the original post; however, I guess I thought that because the situation was occurring outside of work, it might not be within the purview of HR--don't have very much experience in that, thank goodness


NekujaK said:


> * It's also for your own protection in case the situation escalates or goes sideways and she decides to blame you somehow*. Best to get in front of it and nip it in the bud.


^^ great point ^^


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## NekujaK (Aug 14, 2022)

Double Helix said:


> I thought about this very thing when I read the original post; however, I guess I thought that because the situation was occurring outside of work,


I thought in a subsequent post OP mentioned she got physical while he was eating lunch. But maybe I mistakenly assumed all this was happening at work. Indeed, if it's exclusively outside the workplace, there's little HR can do.


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## sostenuto (Aug 14, 2022)

If she appears anything like Paige Spiranac, maybe not be hasty ...... give it some time .... help the needy. 😇 
Maybe relaxed round of golf _ weekly ? ⛳


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## Crowe (Aug 14, 2022)

Refusing to communicate may be effective, but I personally don't find Ghosting to be an acceptable answer. Communicate. Talk. You're just one honest conversation away from making progress with your issue. You know what to do and no amount of acting/being innocent and oblivious is going to change anything. I'm intimately familiar with the fact that self-loathing and crippling lack of confidence makes one *more perceptive over time. Not less.*

That, and the 'oblivious anime harem protagonist' trope has never worked out well for anything.

I'm not judiging you. You just sound like you need a kick up the bum.






I also understand that this is going to be really hard for you. But you still gotta do it. Good luck.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 14, 2022)

well. I think she is clearly physically attracted to you, whether she realizes it or not. what you do with the info is up to you. hehe...


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## EanS (Aug 14, 2022)

You're the office husband. Just keep it light, like you were married for 30 years and no tension arises. But it's common in some cultures, called

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_spouse 

I had a wife and a mistress who sat next to each other. (But I'm really unf*ck*ble)


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> I thought in a subsequent post OP mentioned she got physical while he was eating lunch. But maybe I mistakenly assumed all this was happening at work. Indeed, if it's exclusively outside the workplace, there's little HR can do.


No, it was at work.

I really don't think HR is a good idea. I'm pretty confident it will all just fizzle out anyway.

I have to be completely honest here and say I think I was enjoying the attention at first, although quite suspicious of her motives. I've cut myself off from any kind of female attention/affection for so long now that I'd forgotten what it was/is like. The first time I did try to resist and say I'm not a 'huggy' person. The second time I was a bit weirded out as she squished me so tightly. Then she was doing it maybe once or twice a week. I guess I kept wondering what was going on. I didn't see her hugging other people. 

Then there was a bit later when I was upset as it was the second anniversary of my father's passing. And her hugging me then seemed fine and more supportive than anything else.

However, I'm now thinking she isn't getting much in the way of love from her husband. So maybe I'm just fulfilling that need. If it goes no further than that, and I don't think it will, then I can live with it. It's doing no harm and it alleviates my own loneliness a bit.


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## PaulieDC (Aug 14, 2022)

One other thing to be careful of, and that’s her husband, seriously. If her and him get into an argument, in a heat of anger she could inadvertently or intentionally mention you and how nice you are to her, and if she’s ticked enough, ask her husband why he can’t treat her that way. Look, I’m speculating, but the leg rub thing has me bothered, that was a total setup IMO, and I’m genuinely concern where this situation might take you. I won’t keep going on about it at this point, you’re getting enough advice, but—

it’s not going to just fizzle. OT will put Purge in SINE before that happens.


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## cuttime (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> However, I'm now thinking she isn't getting much in the way of love from her husband. So maybe I'm just fulfilling that need. If it goes no further than that, and I don't think it will, then I can live with it. It's doing no harm and it alleviates my own loneliness a bit.


There is another possibility: It's possible her husband has given her permission to wander. It happens. Either way, she absolutely owes you an explanation. You need to get the straight dope right from her immediately. My armchair advice columnist's two cents.


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> One other thing to be careful of, and that’s her husband, seriously. If her and him get into an argument, in a heat of anger she could inadvertently or intentionally mention you and how nice you are to her, and if she’s ticked enough, ask her husband why he can’t treat her that way. Look, I’m speculating, but the leg rub thing has me bothered, that was a total setup IMO, and I’m genuinely concern where this situation might take you. I won’t keep going on about it at this point, you’re getting enough advice, but—
> 
> it’s not going to just fizzle. OT will put Purge in SINE before that happens.


It’s ok. As I was rubbing her shin I casually said it was like rubbing a chicken leg. 

It sucked any passion that might have been lurking right out.

She remembered it too as earlier today she mentioned the chicken leg thing. I apologised and we left it at that. lol


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## Page Lyn Turner (Aug 14, 2022)

Is she into samples? If not, start talking about legatos, bad scripting, staccato timing etc and see how it goes! On a more serious note, If I were in your position I'd be friendly but also distant, try to not overlap and also a bit disjoint...like a bad scripted legato : )


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

Page Lyn Turner said:


> Is she into samples? If not, start talking about legatos, bad scripting, staccato timing etc and see how it goes!


I bloody hope not or she might see this thread!  Yes, good idea...I could bore her to death with VI-C chatter. 


Page Lyn Turner said:


> On a more serious note, If I were in your position I'd be friendly but also distant, try to not overlap and also a bit disjoint...like a bad scripted legato : )


Hehe. Thank you.


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

cuttime said:


> There is another possibility: It's possible her husband has given her permission to wander. It happens. Either way, she absolutely owes you an explanation. You need to get the straight dope right from her immediately. My armchair advice columnist's two cents.


Honestly, I don't think so. She's just a nice, kind, friendly lady. I haven't met her husband but he seems the same in the photos I've seen and what I've heard about him.

The more I think about it the more silly the whole thing is. She wouldn't want me in a million years! I'm a pretty useless idiot tbh. Dunno, maybe she just likes my sense of humour. \_(".)_/


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## MartinH. (Aug 14, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> One other thing to be careful of, and that’s her husband, seriously.


Is that culturally an american thing? I've only ever seen men be mad at their cheating partners here, not the strangers they hooked up with. If they cheat on someone with a friend or colleague of theirs that's different of course. 




Zedcars said:


> It’s ok. As I was rubbing her shin I casually said it was like rubbing a chicken leg.


Isn't that what pickup artists call "negging"?




Zedcars said:


> She wouldn't want me in a million years! I'm a pretty useless idiot tbh.


There's that negative self talk due to low self esteem and depression speaking again. You wouldn't talk like that about a friend, would you?


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## Markus Kohlprath (Aug 14, 2022)

I don't think any advice is appropriate given the fact that I/we don't know the persons involved but since I have been in a very similar situation which after years is still very present in my memories I kind of feel like sharing it.
The real problem occurs if you fall in love yourself which was the case in my experience. If you don't it's more easy to be clear and not get involved. In my case her husband was a great dude whom I liked very much. So this was a clear reason for me not to pursue a relationship. We talked it out during a romantic walk over fields in the night and it didn't end with a kiss but with the clear decision that I do not want to bring confusion into an otherwise intact family. Luckily for her it was ok and she viewed it in a similar way and she isn't the kind of cheating woman anyway. After all she is still married with the same guy her two children grew up and are great and successful human beings to whom I have a good and free relationship. I am in a solid and happy relationship as well in the meantime. I don't know what would have happened if we would have decided otherwise but certainly it would have caused pain and confusion to a lot of other people from our families. So I think it was the right path to follow. It wasn't easy back then but I'm glad it turned out as it did after all. 
So every situation is different and you have to find out what is the right thing to do for yourself.


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## R.G. (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> She's just a nice, kind, friendly lady.


Then don't tell the Torquemadas at HR. There's no reason to ruin the lady's life. Far too much of that going on in the world already by people who get off on it.


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## sostenuto (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> Honestly, I don't think so. She's just a nice, kind, friendly lady. I haven't met her husband but he seems the same in the photos I've seen and what I've heard about him.
> 
> The more I think about it the more silly the whole thing is. She wouldn't want me in a million years! I'm a pretty useless idiot tbh. Dunno, maybe she just likes my sense of humour. \_(".)_/


Thinking your chicken-wing Legato may be in top soloist class. 🍗


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## devonmyles (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> What do you think is going on here? Is this normal and innocent? She seems happily married. I’m just so confused. I’m single and intend to stay that way. I like her but would never want to ruin a happy marriage with any kind of fling or affair. I’m just not like that. Maybe it’s nothing, but it just seems like strange behaviour to me.


I suppose it depends on what you really are after deep down, what you really feel about her, and vice versa.
Talk to her and see what is going on. You don't want to go through life with "I wonder what if...".
I've been down that road and nearly blew a chance with the now, love of my life, because like you, I didn't know what to really think when I was getting some heavy attention from a girl already in a serious relationship:

Back in the early 80's, I became very friendly with a dancer I was working with on a show. We were almost inseparable, but, she was in a long term relation with someone and getting married to him at some point. Nothing in the sexual department ever happened between us, although, it was simmering just below the surface. She did hug and link arms a lot with me, plus she was constantly in my company. I truly didn't want to mess up any relationship between the two of them and have some nutter hunting me down. So at the end of the six month run, we went our separate ways. For months, I kept thinking about her and had a lot of 'only what if...' moments. At a later date, I found out she had the same thoughts and really thought she had missed her opportunity with something that she thought was special between us...She also became unsure about her relationship.

Anyway, roll on nearly two years, and as I was boarding a flight at Heathrow to fly off and join an Orchestra, on a Cruise ship for a five month contract, my Jaw hit the floor when in front of me, the same girl was also joining the same ship with some of her dancing pals to work on the same show contract as me. During the flight, she told me the wedding hadn't happened as yet, but things were good and the wedding was due to go ahead a couple of months after the Cruise contract ended. She had agreed with her chap that it would be her last time away and she would from then on, work locally with no long stints away. So all good for her, I thought.....well not really. I had other ideas.

Three days after we set sail, 'no ifs, ands, or buts' about it this time, we couldn't keep our hands off each and the deed happened. We were then off on a romantic adventure. When we got back to the UK from the States she had a messy break up with financial consequences, cancellations, letting people down, upsets etc...but, she moved straight in with me at my place and life moved happily forward. Plus, I hadn't been hunted down by anyone.

We eventually got married in '89 and are still very happily married to this day with two terrific boys. I suppose, it was probably written in the stars. A true romance, if you like..!

Not the best advice from me, I'm afraid, because in the end, I just didn't want another prolonged period of 'what if...' in my life, plus the prospect of looking for a second best, so I jumped straight in, head first, not caring about any potential fall out when another opportunity arose.

Sorry for the romantic drivel, but my two boys, my wife and myself are quite proud of how it all turned out...​


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## szczaw (Aug 14, 2022)

Tell her that you started charging for hugs. Now you've got to pay for the experience.


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## Awoo Composer (Aug 14, 2022)

I consider myself touch starved seeing as how I've been alone and never dated (or had intercourse, although that I am not bothered about), but unless I know someone really well I probably wouldn't ask for hugs. Unless I knew they were single and not doing it in a flirtatious way (which I probably wouldn't even pick up) it would just kind of send alarm bells ringing my brain.

If she is married, I dunno, I'd kind of be like "you already have someone that you can hug, why want hugs from me?". But I'm probably not the best for advice... Just my .2c.


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## gyprock (Aug 14, 2022)

How about saying "You’ve reached the hug quota for today" when she asks for a hug. Monitor her reaction. This could be a segue into a friendly discussion about how you’re not a touchy, feely sort of guy.


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## LamaRose (Aug 14, 2022)

devonmyles said:


> I suppose it depends on what you really are after deep down, what you really feel about her, and vice versa.
> Talk to her and see what is going on. You don't want to go through life with "I wonder what if...".
> I've been down that road and nearly blew a chance with the now, love of my life, because like you, I didn't know what to really think when I was getting some heavy attention from a girl already in a serious relationship:
> 
> ...


THIS! Great lives, great romances, great scripts are written from the blank page. 

"Single Lonely guy meets sweet, under appreciated, Married Co-worker." You've seen the movie many times. Sometimes it's right, sometimes not. 

Doing nothing resolves nothing. As @devonmyles wisely suggests: "Talk to her and see what is going on. You don't want to go through life with "I wonder what if...". 

Best of fortunes either way!


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## MusiquedeReve (Aug 14, 2022)

Scoring this thread should be the next Spitfire competition


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## NoamL (Aug 14, 2022)

any1 who would cheat for you would cheat on you


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## Trash Panda (Aug 14, 2022)

Clearly she’s flirting with you. That much is obvious. 

The unknown is the intent behind it. 

I’ve known women who flirt purely for fun, but have zero intention on following through. They love gay men for this especially because they think they can flirt relentlessly without any danger of the other party taking it seriously. 

I’ve seen a darker side where women flirt to feel empowered and exhibit control over men with low self esteem. These poor bastards buy into the act, bend over backwards to the woman’s every stated and imagined wants and always end up frustrated and heart broken when they find out they’re getting played for attention or money. 

There are some women who are just touchy, feely and flirty and don’t mean to lead someone on. Others who just do it for the fantasy, the list goes on. 

And of course there are those who are flirty because they want to get down and dirty for real. 

There is really no way of knowing which category this one falls into. Confronting it head on could be just fine, or it could cause tension or an HR incident if she’s not even aware of the flirting and gets uncomfortable when it’s brought up. 

The advice about pretending like you’re thinking of getting into online dating and want some advice is a really good way to feel things out. 

If she’s into you, she’ll probably “jokingly” tell you to just take her out for a drink or react with obvious signs of sadness that you’re Friend Zoning her. If she’s not into you, she’ll give you genuine advice and encourage you to get out there. 

In either event, you should have a better idea of her intentions at that point and can steer things appropriately.


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## JohnG (Aug 14, 2022)

If you lived in the USA you could end up in terrible trouble over this. Again, in the USA, human resources training advises strictly against any touching at all, apart from shaking hands. No pats on the shoulder, hugs, pats on the back — nothing.

Why?

1. If you are a senior person and you hug someone he or she may not like it but may not feel empowered to reject it.

2. If you hug, say, colleagues of one gender but not another, it could appear that you favour some people over others or disfavour the other gender. Alas there are still some professions in which very few women are senior, and the “boys’ club” situation is inherently uncomfortable.

3. It could be construed as sexual harassment.

But here’s the thing — IF she is in love with you and IF she feels rejected, there is no telling exactly what could happen if this situation goes wrong. Hurt feelings are bad in the workplace. Charges might even be leveled at you. I don’t know her and am not casting aspersions but the point is that by leaving this alone and hoping it’s harmless, it might some day create horrible problems.

Maybe you’re in a country or region where lawsuits over this kind of thing are not prevalent. But in the US it’s an absolute no-no.

If it were my son (or daughter) facing this I would advise going straight to Human Resources to report it, discreetly, so you don’t get burned later. Ask for advice. Get out in front of it rather than find yourself responding to something.

Best of luck. It sounds quite awkward.

Cheers,

John


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## Benbln (Aug 14, 2022)

Tbh I don’t know about the „asking her about online dating“ advice. IMO this could get flirty pretty quick especially if you never talked to her about your dating life before. She could misunderstand that and then you could be the one sending signals. But it’s not easy to judge.

I understand why some in here would go to the HR department because you already said that you don’t want that but at least in our HR department word gets around quickly and if such a story would be brought up in our company then it could cause trouble for both of you and I don’t even mean consequences giving from the company but more of talking about you two behind your back and such things and so on. At least I wouldn't feel comfortable with it either, but it depends on how intensely you feel it and how much it bothers you.

Maybe a „last“ discussion with her could solve things if you start bringing HR up to show her how serious you are and so she understands that it is really uncomfortable for you.


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## JohnG (Aug 14, 2022)

Benbln said:


> at least in our HR department word gets around quickly and if such a story would be brought up in our company then it could cause trouble


Yes, it could. But nothing like the kind of trouble that a lawsuit based on “inappropriate touching” would generate.

It is best to get out ahead of this kind of thing and go on record, with an objective third party, that you are not welcoming it.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 14, 2022)

JohnG said:


> Yes, it could. But nothing like the kind of trouble that a lawsuit based on “inappropriate touching” would generate.
> 
> It is best to get out ahead of this kind of thing and go on record, with an objective third party, that you are not welcoming it.


It really depends on the size of the company and the professionalism of the HR department.


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## szczaw (Aug 14, 2022)

In case there is a cancel Zedcars attempt, the matter is documented here.


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## emilio_n (Aug 14, 2022)

Looks like you have some grade of friendship with that woman. If I were in your situation, I would talk with her first before thinking about reporting it to HR and creating a problem that perhaps doesn't exist.

If she is a close colleague/friend, just explain to her how confusing it is for you the situation and that you don't want any misunderstanding. I think the main problem, as others pointed out before, is that you want something with her if not, a talk with her will be the best way.

I understand people recommend you to be covered by reporting to a 3rd party, and I think that is good advice (HR or other colleagues/friends), but if I were you, I would do this if a previous conversation doesn't work. Now you can manage by yourself, after reporting, things will go out of control.

I recommend you take all the advice here, like comments of people that don't know the case in detail. You are the only one that can judge the situation and take action.


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## ka00 (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> One of my co-workers is a married woman and I consider her a friend as we group socialise outside work. About 6 months ago she started wanting hugs. I’m a friendly guy who doesn’t want to be negative so I go along with it, even though I’m not a ‘huggy’ person. I rarely hug any of my family apart from my sister’s kids. We are just not into that kind of thing.
> 
> Anyway, the hugs are getting more and more frequent several each week. And she seems to like to touch my arms whenever we are talking. We went out the other day socialising in a group and she swapped seats to sit next to me. She bashed her leg as she was changing seats (it was a wooden bench outside). She wanted me to rub it better. I did and then stopped and she said “a bit more but faster”. Sounds funny but it’s true!
> 
> ...


My two cents, everything you explained here in your original post, you could reformat into something you tell her. Go out with her somewhere and tell her you’ve wanted to get it off your chest and you wanted clarification and admit it’s awkward but you think it’s best for your friendship to talk about this. Script it out if you want and rehearse it a lot if you have to.


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## jmauz (Aug 14, 2022)

I thought this was a site about virtual instruments/composing/music production, not a Dear Abby column. Huh.

To the OP - stop bullshitting yourself. Of course she's flirting with you, and your behavior is enabling it, which indicates your interest. You've got to have a talk with her and put the kibosh on all of this. 

Or fuck her and ruin her marriage. Your choice. Either way, take responsibility of YOUR actions.


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## R.G. (Aug 14, 2022)

The first thing you need to do is to determine her intentions. The best way to do that is to walk into her office naked while holding a cup of black coffee. Then tell her you're out of creamer and ask if she has some you could borrow. If she makes a suggestive joke using the word "creamer," then she likes you as more than a friend. But if she runs out of the office yelling while squirting pepper spray behind her, you can explain it all away by saying that you always drink coffee in the nude, and that since it's a tenet of your religion, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission might be very interested to learn that your employer is persecuting you for your deeply held beliefs.


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## PaulieDC (Aug 14, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> It’s ok. As I was rubbing her shin I casually said it was like rubbing a chicken leg.
> 
> It sucked any passion that might have been lurking right out.
> 
> She remembered it too as earlier today she mentioned the chicken leg thing. I apologised and we left it at that. lol


Good job! 😄


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## PaulieDC (Aug 14, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Is that culturally an american thing? I've only ever seen men be mad at their cheating partners here, not the strangers they hooked up with. If they cheat on someone with a friend or colleague of theirs that's different of course.


Absolutely. Especially if it’s an Italian guy from NJ (like me, lol), you don’t even ask another man’s wife what time it is. Cultures are different everywhere!


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## Zedcars (Aug 14, 2022)

Everyone in my workplace has a very special working relationship with each other. I guess not unique since the world is a big place but definitely not the norm. It’s like an extended family. We do support each other, laugh with each other — sometimes raucously, cry with each other (a very dear member of our team died last year), enjoy each others’ company. But those words don’t begin to describe how different the atmosphere is compared to other places I’ve worked or other departments I’ve witnessed.

For her 50th birthday this year which she was working we had a buffet laid out with balloons and bunting. I wanted to do something special so I got dressed up in an inflatable elephant costume. My colleagues were in stitches and a few enjoyed stroking my trunk. Double entendres galore! I wouldn’t have been allowed to do that in any other job I’ve been in. Yeah, not exactly drug-fuelled levels of debauchery or mayhem but fun nonetheless.

Also forgot to mention but there’s a second lady who is a bit mentally unstable who flirts with me also. She is not liked by many in the office as she’s rude, obnoxious, moody and lazy. She’s the one exception to the previously mentioned family environment. Anyway, the huggy lady despises her to the point where she calls her “it”. When I mentioned to huggy lady that moody lady had subtly hinted she wanted to f*** me in the spare office she was horrified (so was I but laughed it off). Dunno if that’s jealousy or just the fact that moody lady is a physical and emotional mess.


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## CT (Aug 14, 2022)

Why have none of you on this forum flirted with me? I am extremely disappointed.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 14, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> Why have none of you on this forum flirted with me? I am extremely disappointed.


We have been! We're just bad at it.


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## jamessy (Aug 14, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> Why have none of you on this forum flirted with me? I am extremely disappointed.


Hey Michaelt....you uh...do you like samples


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## AudioLoco (Aug 15, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> Also forgot to mention but there’s a second lady who is a bit mentally unstable who flirts with me also.


Don Giovanni, it's you, not them.


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 15, 2022)

Well, with hair like that mate, I'm not surprised you're getting the attention. 

Honestly though Zed - whilst this thread is kinda amusing, I think you need to put some clear daylight between yourself and the office "advances." Unlikely that any of it ultimately lands well for you, imho. There's no obvious benefit for you and plenty of potential repercussions.

Best of luck mate. Hope you get it sorted.


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## Michel Simons (Aug 15, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> Why have none of you on this forum flirted with me? I am extremely disappointed.


I did try to rub your chin once.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Aug 15, 2022)

So are there any vacancies at your workplace?


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## CT (Aug 15, 2022)

Michel Simons said:


> I did try to rub your chin once.


Yeah man that was really weird, what the hell.


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## signalpath (Aug 15, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> No, I have no interest in having any relationship with anyone and especially not if they are married. I’ve been cheated on numerous times so I vowed to never get into that situation ever again. And as I know how gutty that feels it makes me even more against doing that to another guy and family.


Integrity is the character of man after God's own heart. A man who is not only undivided, not a hypocrite, not corrupt, not compromised, but a man who is honest to his very core and pours God's truth into his heart.


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## NuNativs (Aug 15, 2022)

Is it "normal"? Sure, of course it is. Go watch the dance of some buck & does in the forest. You're overthinking the situation, are you going to take the plunge or nada?


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## Zedcars (Aug 15, 2022)

signalpath said:


> Integrity is the character of man after God's own heart. A man who is not only undivided, not a hypocrite, not corrupt, not compromised, but a man who is honest to his very core and pours God's truth into his heart.


I’m an atheist.


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## Zedcars (Aug 15, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> Is it "normal"? Sure, of course it is. Go watch the dance of some buck & does in the forest. You're overthinking the situation, are you going to take the plunge or nada?


No, my intentions are good. My emotional side however, has a tendency to be unpredictable and downright awkward so I just need to keep it in the box. As things stand today I just want to remain good friends with her. Anything else would bring back nightmares of what happened to me 15 years ago when I fell in love with a female co-worker and she didn’t feel the same way. Long story short I was ostracised by almost everyone, had a nervous breakdown, tried to end it and had 3 months off work with anxiety and depression. I left my job without a new one to go to. I never want to go through that again.


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## John Judd (Aug 18, 2022)

Methinks it’s time to bust out the farts in front of her. (To clarify: the recent girl, not the one from a while back).


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