# I'm Going To Ask A Question And You Have To Answer Honestly...



## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 9, 2020)

The question is this...
As a composer,do you listen to your own music a lot?

The reason why I ask is, I have been writing for about 45 years now. I listen to my music a hell of a lot because, i am always extending older pieces or adding mid sections so I listen all the time to see where i can add or extend and also, if you have seen my #nerdingfortheweekend video, you will know that i am always re-writing my music into different styles.

Also i have come to realise that, we grow up listening to lots of different styles that we may like but i think that some of the better music we listen to is our own creations for the simple reason that we generally compose exactly what we want to hear.

What about you and what do you think?


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## Ivan M. (Jul 9, 2020)

Nope, very rarely. 
Though, when I do I'm sometimes amazed with what I've created. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 
(Sometimes dissapointed, too)


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## Loïc D (Jul 9, 2020)

As a hobbyist :
- I've got far better music to listen to than mine,
- When I release something, I'm so glad to get rid of it that I want to forget it
- Sh*t, I lost this competition again, I wanna stop making music
- After a few months, I might listen to it once or twice, 
- After a few years, I listen to it and realize :
20% is actually enjoyable, often the less "serious" stuff
80% is either super boring (my trademark) or failed or both
- And there's the music I want to forget : epic failed instrumental hiphop (2000), my concept album about the cyber menace (1998), orchestral OST made of ugly samples (2003), improvisations _à la _Vangelis (1998), my first punk album (1993), one-hand-guitar-player Jeff Buckley mockups (2000)

So, no, I don't really listen to my stuff.
And I never reopen old projects to try to improve them afterwards (with one recent exception).


The world is bigger and far more beautiful.


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## NekujaK (Jul 9, 2020)

I rarely listen to music I'm hired to make, unless I'm adding it to a demo reel or website and I want to make sure it's compatible with my other tracks.

However, for my own personal music, I must admit I get enjoyment out of listening to it for several days after it's done, before finally putting it to rest. I used to joke, "If I don't listen to my own music, then who will?"


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 9, 2020)

For the vast majority of my output...no, not really. It gets bounced to audio, uploaded and onto the next. I have a few (self composed) tracks I listen to that match my own personal preferences and I do reference earlier work to see if I've improved.

Some of the time, that pesky "dialogue" and "sound FX" gets in the way of my music anyway..


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## babylonwaves (Jul 9, 2020)

I don't really listen to my music. Years later I might do and then it surprises me, good or bad.


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## olvra (Jul 9, 2020)

NekujaK said:


> "If I don't listen to my own music, then who will?"



momma will


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## ynwtf (Jul 9, 2020)

Loïc D said:


> As a hobbyist :
> * ... one-hand-guitar-player Jeff Buckley mockups (2000)*
> 
> So, no, I don't really listen to my stuff.
> ...



I need to know *more *of this one-hand-guitar-player Jeff Buckley mockup you speak of.
(need)

please and thank you.
 


re: the OP
Not so much, after it's done. I can obsess over tracks that are in development, carrying MP3s on my mobile to listen to at the day job. Mostly to critique and note problems. Once I'm done though, I don't really return to it. Not that I've noticed anyway. That said, my stuff is crap anyway, lol, so not much need to return to it to begin with.

Maybe down the road, as I get better, that might change. I KIND of feel external music is inspirational. My own music, however, is mostly about the process or a kind of therapy in a way. What is the saying? It's the journey and not the destination? I'm improvising here, trying to reason out why I do or do not do this. That makes the most sense to me at the moment.


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## Satorious (Jul 9, 2020)

Just to give a slightly different response: sometimes. I often do this in more in a "what's wrong with this", "how can I improve this", or "have I've done this before" context - so I tend to be more focused on "the current track". I also differ slightly from some of the composers above who can't wait to get rid of their tracks. I certainly get a lot more pleasure and inspiration listening to tracks from other artists, but conversely I'm not ashamed to listen to a few of my own tracks in moderation. I don't invest time and energy in writing a track to have zero emotional attachment to it. I listen in a different way however - usually trying to improve or push myself in some way... Not all tracks are equal, some tracks absolutely excruciating to revisit - but that's all part of the journey.


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## gussunkri (Jul 9, 2020)

I am slightly embarrassed to admit it. All of you are probably better composers and musicians than me, but I listen to my own music more than any other music, and I've done so for the past 20 years. I don't really make music for others. Library music is a very recent thing for me. I can hear a lot of room for improvement, but at the same time, I, most of the time, make exactly the music I would love to hear. I am my own custom composer who can make, with varying degrees of success, precisely the music I would love to hear.


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 9, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> The question is this...
> As a composer,do you listen to your own music a lot?
> 
> The reason why I ask is, I have been writing for about 45 years now. I listen to my music a hell of a lot because, i am always extending older pieces or adding mid sections so I listen all the time to see where i can add or extend and also, if you have seen my #nerdingfortheweekend video, you will know that i am always re-writing my music into different styles.
> ...


Not really unless it’s an ongoing project.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 9, 2020)

So after reading some of your replies, it looks like alot don't.
I can't really understand that to be honest.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not implying that my music is better than anything else i hear, far from it but, i know that now (not being big headed or anything) after years of composing, i think that a lot of what i write is good. Not the best, not better than what you may write, but it is good.

I tend to write very quickly, sometime i may have 4 or 5 on the go and i go between them. Ok, my mixing is pretty crap and i'm the first to admit that but the actual music i do, i'm generally proud of so it does strike me as odd that some of you don't like to listen to your own music once it's finished.

As for being 'embarrassed' to listen to your own music, why? You created it, it came from your mind, it came from your soul and sometimes it comes from your personal experiances.

That is what music is all about.

I have created some of my best works by listening to my earlier music and re working them. The older you get, the more you learn. So use that knowledge to your advantage.

If you haven't watched my video for Christian Henson's #nerdingfortheweekend https://vi-control.net/community/threads/this-is-my-nerdingfortheweekend-video.95646/
have a look from 10:30 on, going back to older works and re working them.

I listen to my own music cos i like what i create. Simple as that and i don't see anything bad or wrong with that lol


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## gtrwll (Jul 9, 2020)

I do, occasionally. Only the stuff I write as my own projects though, not the pieces I write for libraries.

If I don’t enjoy listening to my own music, why would I think anyone else would?


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 9, 2020)

gtrwll said:


> If I don’t enjoy listening to my own music, why would I think anyone else would?


I am not particularly into Jazz but if you asked me to write a Jazz piece, i would. I may not really like it but a Jazz fan may like it. There is always someone out there that will like what you have writen even if you don't. Always!


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## Rob (Jul 10, 2020)

No, I usually can't stand the music I've done, recordings included... to be honest, I don't listen to music at all. After hours of working on music, practice, writing etc all I want is silence


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Rob said:


> No, I usually can't stand the music I've done, recordings included... to be honest, I don't listen to music at all. After hours of working on music, practice, writing etc all I want is silence


Wow, i find that very hard to understand.


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## gyprock (Jul 10, 2020)

I only listen to other composer’s pieces while I’m copying them.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

gyprock said:


> I only listen to other composer’s pieces while I’m copying them.


Actually, we all probably do that more than we realise.


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## Mornats (Jul 10, 2020)

I listen to my music all the time Keith. I'm a hobbyist who has gone from not knowing how to put together a cohesive piece at all, and who knew little theory to being able to create music I'm proud of. I've still got a long way to go but I find pleasure in listening to old and new stuff.

When in working on a track I'll listen to it constantly to find things that can be improved. I'll listen over and over at work and make notes.

I think some of it is that a few years ago I never thought it possible that I could produce music featuring an entire orchestra. But also, I make the type of music that I want to listen to. As I said, I'm a hobbyist so I'm only making music for me really. 

I also tend to express mood when I write music and it's quite soothing to listen to something that I wrote when I'm feeling the same way now.


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## Rob (Jul 10, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Wow, i find that very hard to understand.


no need to understand, just accept it as I do...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Ok, take for instance this piece, how could i not want to play this over and over. Not just because i wrote it, but because i really do like it.


I can't help it, i really like what i wrote and i really like listening to it. Specially when i'm driving in my car and i got it on loud.
Not just because I wrote it.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Mornats said:


> I listen to my music all the time Keith. I'm a hobbyist who has gone from not knowing how to put together a cohesive piece at all, and who knew little theory to being able to create music I'm proud of. I've still got a long way to go but I find pleasure in listening to old and new stuff.
> 
> When in working on a track I'll listen to it constantly to find things that can be improved. I'll listen over and over at work and make notes.
> 
> ...


Exactly! My whole point of this question.


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## Mornats (Jul 10, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I can't help it, i really like what i wrote and i really like listening to it.


I totally get that.


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## Mornats (Jul 10, 2020)

I also like that track you posted by the way. That percussion sounds great and suits it perfectly.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Mornats said:


> I also like that track you posted by the way. That percussion sounds great and suits it perfectly.


Thank you, If i remember right, i used Damage and just manipulated the loops.


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## Mornats (Jul 10, 2020)

Oh wow, I'd never have thought that was Damage!


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Ok, lets look at this a different way.
One of my all time fav pieces of music is Chevaliers de Sangreal (The Da Vinci Code Theme) by Hans Zimmer.

That to me is a most gorgeous piece of music. Now, if say i had writen it, would i love it any less? no, it would still be the same beautiful piece of music to my ears.

Do you think Hans himself hates it or dislikes it? I very much doubt it as it would still be a beautiful piece of music to his ears even though he wrote it.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 10, 2020)

I listen to my own music sometimes. Mostly the pieces I did for my own enjoyment. I'm genuinely happy someone wrote those.

I generally don't listen to a lot of music though. It's kind of a problem. I rarely listen to orchestral music. Film music sucks ass (there are exceptions: Powell, Elfman), and classical is too dragged out, self-indulgent and often times too anal. I do have my favorites of course, but generally music is a dreadfully boring affair and the academic variant is a true champion of that cause.

When I listen to music, it's mostly while speed-, I mean driving, or during training and workouts. That's where I go back to the Metal stuff I was into 10-20 years ago. Rarely newer stuff. That's just my type of energy as a person. Not so much my mentality as a musician though. I rarely have an urge to write a Metal song, even as a guitar player. I can't really see myself listening to the same kind of stuff I do myself and vice versa.

As a matter of fact, I'm searching for alibis or reasons to play and practice more again, but guitar just bores the heck out of me if it's not the deadly precision and elegant savagery of Metal - the good kind at least. Most Metal music is ridiculous to be honest.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I listen to my own music sometimes. Mostly the pieces I did for my own enjoyment. I'm genuinely happy someone wrote those.
> 
> I generally don't listen to a lot of music though. It's kind of a problem. I rarely listen to orchestral music. Film music sucks ass (there are exceptions: Powell, Elfman), and classical is too dragged out, self-indulgent and often times too anal. I do have my favorites of course, but generally music is a dreadfully boring affair and the academic variant is a true champion of that cause.
> 
> ...


It all boils down to our own taste. I am really learning quite a lot that i didn't expect from writing this post.

I did start on classical piano when i was six so i do have a love for it. But as i grew in my teens, i really got into rock and blues. Now the thing is, at that time, Zeppelin, Purple, early Quo, Sabbath, that's what me and my mates where into but say for instance, i liked a certain Mowtown song or even Crazy Horses by The Osmands, i would not dare admit it as my mates would beat me up lmao.

But as we get older, we usually broaden our outlook of music and now, if i hear something that hits me like a ton of bricks, i will listen to it and enjoy it for what it is regardless of it's genre.

I am a guitarist so i listen to Rock, Blues, Metal, Satriani, all sorts. I am a keyboard player too so i listen to synth music, EDM, Trance, Piano and as i am into classical, i listen to Symphonies, Concertos and basically orchestral which includes film scores and cinematic music.

As a composer, i think it helps your writing ability to understand many styles and genres of music.

At the end of the day, each to his own. What you like is your choise and no one can tell you any differnt


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## Cheezus (Jul 10, 2020)

I relate to this post a lot. I probably listen to my own music more than any other music. I only make music for myself and what I write tends to have some hypothetical purpose (for a game I want to create usually) so when I listen to it I can imagine it in context.

I also listen a lot to develop an ear for problems that need to be fixed or ways to lengthen or improve it, and because I make the type of music I like.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 10, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Ok, take for instance this piece, how could i not want to play this over and over. Not just because i wrote it, but because i really do like it.
> 
> 
> I can't help it, i really like what i wrote and i really like listening to it. Specially when i'm driving in my car and i got it on loud.
> Not just because I wrote it.



I really like this Keith. Now do a version with a big, dirty kick drum pounding away underneath.


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## Gerbil (Jul 10, 2020)

I never listen to any library music I've done. Earns a bit of cash but it's really just hack music. I like to perform first and foremost, whether on my own or with others; classical compositions and improv, jazz improv, sometimes my own music. But I listen to as much as my ears will allow me to in a day (I need a lot of silence as well) and that's always been the way since I was a kid. 

Film music is an inseparable part of the whole movie experience for me so I very rarely listen to it except for reference when mixing.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Jul 10, 2020)

If I wouldn't like/listen to my own music there would be no point in writing it to me and I'd probably suck at doing it due to the lack of motivation. How much drive can you bring up when you know you're probably not gonna like the end result? 

I listen to my music a lot because the whole point of writing it is to create something I appreciate (of course along the lines of what ever project I'm working on, usually library music or demos which often means a lot of freedom, sometimes almost unlimited). 

Nobody knows what you want better than yourself. That includes music of course. Often I manage to capture emotions of myself in music that obviously nobody else can evoke in me - because they are mine. It probably won't reach anybody else who listens to it, so I'm actually the best audience for these tracks.  

As time progresses and my skills to execute my musical visions grow I'll probably be writing a lot of my all time favorite pieces myself - not because it's necessarily better than other music, but again - because nobody knows what I want musically better than myself. All it takes is the skills to make these needs come alive, which I'm working on.


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## Mornats (Jul 10, 2020)

DarkestShadow said:


> Often I manage to capture emotions of myself in music



This really resonated with me. My partner always says she doesn't like a lot of my music because there always an element of tension in there. It puzzles her as she says I'm really quite chilled most of the time. So maybe my tension gets put into musical form and whilst listening back to the tense music I release more tension through the act of listening.


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## JEPA (Jul 10, 2020)

The answer is No. When music is ready done/delivered I move on.


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## mikeh-375 (Jul 10, 2020)

I write long form concert music these days, symphonies, concertos and they take time, so I have to keep thinking, listening, writing, rubbing out, writing again. I've done it all my life virtually and probably wont stop. I do listen to wip's away from my writing area as I find it sometimes helps resolve a problem or shine a different light on the work so far.


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## Paul Grymaud (Jul 10, 2020)

No, I never listen to my music. Except when I compose it or play it. I prefer to listen to birdsong. I've just created the orchestra (choir) of birds that I'm conducting...


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## Scalms (Jul 10, 2020)

Another aspect to this is, how long does it take you to get bored of your music? what i mean by this, is I am a hobbyist. When I write a piece, I fret, scrutinize, and analyze every note and section, and listen to the piece over and over and over (and over and over) again, to the point where the song can become mundane. I've always wondered this, especially about artists who tour the world, playing their same song over and over again, do they get sick of it to the point where the song has lost most of its original thrill?


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## Rob (Jul 10, 2020)

also, what do we mean with "listen"? Of course, while I'm playing, writing, arranging, etc I will listen, and very attentively, to what I'm doing. But then there's listening as a way of feeding my mind/soul, and that's when listening to my music feels almost like eating myself... I want to listen to something that will nourish me, that comes from outside. And I try to be careful because everything we listen to (or read, hear, watch) leaves traces in our brain, so try to avoid all that can be potentially dangerous.


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## Symfoniq (Jul 10, 2020)

I remember John Williams saying he doesn't listen to his own music or watch the movies he has scored.


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## GtrString (Jul 10, 2020)

I generally don't like to listen back, once its done. Maybe its due to hundreds of listens when in development. I have playlists for my own enjoyment, but my own music is not on them.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 10, 2020)

Rob said:


> No, I usually can't stand the music I've done, recordings included... to be honest, I don't listen to music at all. After hours of working on music, practice, writing etc all I want is silence



Well I listen to your music, because it’s terrific.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 10, 2020)

I do listen to my music. I think I am pretty good.


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## Rob (Jul 10, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Well I listen to your music, because it’s terrific.


you mean it elicits terror of course... thank you Jay, but seriously, why listen to our own music... there's a world full of things to listen to.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 10, 2020)

Rob said:


> you mean it elicits terror of course... thank you Jay, but seriously, why listen to our own music... there's a world full of things to listen to.



I didn’t say I primarily listen to it or only listen to it. I _occasionally_ do, but 98% of my listeningis work by others.


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## Rodney Money (Jul 10, 2020)

I had to actually think about this question, because I thought I did but actually I think I never do. I write mostly for clients who play my music live, so I get more joy out of seeing the actual printed sheet music than the actual rendering or even a live recording sent back from the client. I’m one of those weird people who can hear a score in my head, so I look at the sheet music all the time, it’s all over the house, even when it’s done looking for possible edits. I can hear the completed work in my head and often times differently performed concerning my mood. Here’s an example of a score I just completed for a client scored for tenor, celesta, vibraphone, 2 marimbas, and cello called “We Wear the Mask” with words by Paul Laurence Dunbar:


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## nuyo (Jul 10, 2020)

Hell no, I don't listend to that crap...


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## Drundfunk (Jul 10, 2020)

After finishing a project, sending the final files etc (and usually being tired af) I listen to what I handed in over and over and over again. Not sure why I'm doing this to be honest. Sure I'm proud in a sense of the music I wrote, but I already listened to this music over and over and over again when I composed/mixed/mastered it, so I think the perfectionist inside me simply goes insane at this point (especially when all of a sudden I spot things I don't like). Usually this can go on for a few hours until I'm finally falling asleep (no matter how tired I am, I usually have troubles sleeping after finishing a project and I just have this urge to listen to the music). Then I'll listen to it the next day again when I'm feeling more rested (1-2 times). Then I don't listen to it at all for a few days, might listen to it again once and then I give it a final listen after 1-2 weeks to listen with rested ears. This is usually when I finally decide what went well on a track and what didn't so I hopefully don't make the same mistakes again. Then I never really listen to it again (except if I want to recall something). Btw, I hate my music. Most of it is crap. On the plus side, there are some lunatics out there who actually like it, so maybe I just have no idea what I'm talking about.

Btw I'm not really listening to music for enjoyment at all these days. My favourite type of music is silence or the sound of breaking waves.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> I really like this Keith. Now do a version with a big, dirty kick drum pounding away underneath.


Thank you and regarding a pounding kick, you never know, specially as i write Trance/EDM too lol


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Gerbil said:


> (I need a lot of silence as well) and that's always been the way since I was a kid.


Silence is a very good thing for a composer. It clears the mind and helps you relax ready for the next onslaught


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

DarkestShadow said:


> If I wouldn't like/listen to my own music there would be no point in writing it to me and I'd probably suck at doing it due to the lack of motivation. How much drive can you bring up when you know you're probably not gonna like the end result?
> 
> I listen to my music a lot because the whole point of writing it is to create something I appreciate (of course along the lines of what ever project I'm working on, usually library music or demos which often means a lot of freedom, sometimes almost unlimited).
> 
> ...


Yes, very good points! When anyone listens to a piece of my music, they are hearing my thoughts at that particular moment in time. They may feel what i was feeling at the time i wrote it.
Music can be a very powerful statement from one person. And i agree, if you never like the music you create, why do you carry on composing. That is what i can't understand from some of these replies.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

GtrString said:


> I generally don't like to listen back, once its done. Maybe its due to hundreds of listens when in development. I have playlists for my own enjoyment, but my own music is not on them.


I suppose you have a very good point. After all, when we write a bit of music, we basically overkill playing it lol. Having said that, after all the hours and brain slogging of writing it, it has to be nice listenening to the finished product, taking a step back and saying, i have just created something unique in the worlds history (or hopefully lol)


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## visiblenoise (Jul 10, 2020)

I'll proudly listen to it in the days after something's finished, depending on how much I ended up liking it. Sometimes I'll genuinely enjoy it, but most often I'm just trying to conclude on what that song was really about, what I learned, etc. The philosophical side of music production. I'm an amateur, so I have a lot of amateur things to think about.


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## dzilizzi (Jul 10, 2020)

Yes and no. I'm a hobbyist. Things that I have completed, I will listen to every so often. I have a couple on my playlist. Sometimes I will make a copy and experiment with new effects using old projects, not so much to make the old ones better, but more to see how the new stuff works compared to the old stuff on something that is done. I don't re-listen to any of my unsuccessful experiments - they were unsuccessful for a reason.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 10, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Yes, very good points! When anyone listens to a piece of my music, they are hearing my thoughts at that particular moment in time. They may feel what i was feeling at the time i wrote it.
> Music can be a very powerful statement from one person. And i agree, if you never like the music you create, why do you carry on composing. That is what i can't understand from some of these replies.


If it's for one's self, then you've gotta enjoy it, I agree.
But if you're writing for someone else? Or to a brief? I think in those circumstances you can perhaps not actually "like" the music you write, but you can gain some satisfaction in having competently met the target.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Mornats said:


> This really resonated with me. My partner always says she doesn't like a lot of my music because there always an element of tension in there. It puzzles her as she says I'm really quite chilled most of the time. So maybe my tension gets put into musical form and whilst listening back to the tense music I release more tension through the act of listening.


Yes, i'm the same, i tend to write aggresive orchestral pieces but i am a pretty placid bloke (unless someone pisses me off ha ha) but i like aggresive powerful music as well as melodic beautiful pieces. I don't think Tchaikovsky used to go around wanting to fight everyone and shouting abuse at people but some of his music is so powerful and dramatic and very aggresive and i love that kind of orchestral music. Mars by Holst, how aggresive is that but WOW, what a piece of music. Placid or chill peole can write agressively, it's all imagination.


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## robgb (Jul 10, 2020)

Yes.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Rob said:


> also, what do we mean with "listen"? Of course, while I'm playing, writing, arranging, etc I will listen, and very attentively, to what I'm doing. But then there's listening as a way of feeding my mind/soul, and that's when listening to my music feels almost like eating myself... I want to listen to something that will nourish me, that comes from outside. And I try to be careful because everything we listen to (or read, hear, watch) leaves traces in our brain, so try to avoid all that can be potentially dangerous.


When i say 'listen' i mean do you play your own music as you do someone elses for pleasure. I do because i like what i write. It's that simple for me


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

robgb said:


> Yes.


Short and sweet!


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## robgb (Jul 10, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Short and sweet!


Like my music.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Scalms said:


> Another aspect to this is, how long does it take you to get bored of your music? what i mean by this, is I am a hobbyist. When I write a piece, I fret, scrutinize, and analyze every note and section, and listen to the piece over and over and over (and over and over) again, to the point where the song can become mundane. I've always wondered this, especially about artists who tour the world, playing their same song over and over again, do they get sick of it to the point where the song has lost most of its original thrill?


Yes and no doubt our own music gets boring to us after a while but then we are working on something new so that becomes the focus of our attention.
Big artists are the same, for years playing the same traks to audiences around the world, the difference though is they are getting paid to do that although they are bored to tears with those tracks by then. But for us, when we listen to any music, its great when it's new and fresh then it gets boring but then a few years down the road, it's all fresh againg and you're off down memory lane.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Symfoniq said:


> I remember John Williams saying he doesn't listen to his own music or watch the movies he has scored.


Maybe that is the same as some actors that don't watch the films they have been in.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Rodney Money said:


> I had to actually think about this question, because I thought I did but actually I think I never do. I write mostly for clients who play my music live, so I get more joy out of seeing the actual printed sheet music than the actual rendering or even a live recording sent back from the client. I’m one of those weird people who can hear a score in my head, so I look at the sheet music all the time, it’s all over the house, even when it’s done looking for possible edits. I can hear the completed work in my head and often times differently performed concerning my mood. Here’s an example of a score I just completed for a client scored for tenor, celesta, vibraphone, 2 marimbas, and cello called “We Wear the Mask” with words by Paul Laurence Dunbar:


I would love to be able to hear a score just by reading the sheet music. I can do it slowly on a short scale but i mean ssslllooowwwlllyyyyy lol


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> If it's for one's self, then you've gotta enjoy it, I agree.
> But if you're writing for someone else? Or to a brief? I think in those circumstances you can perhaps not actually "like" the music you write, but you can gain some satisfaction in having competently met the target.


Yes i can totally understand that.


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## Sunny Schramm (Jul 10, 2020)

Of course - because in first place I did the music for myself to process feelings and experiences.

But not that often - maybe once a year or two and its more about getting into the mood and memories. Sometimes it makes me kind of depressive because making full songs feels so easy back then - the last twenty years I struggle to get more than eight bars in a loop 😕

On the other hand - when I listen to music I´ve done for business and customers which was not my personal taste/style I feel a little proud on myself for getting these jobs done ☺


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## Polkasound (Jul 10, 2020)

Scalms said:


> Another aspect to this is, how long does it take you to get bored of your music? what i mean by this, is I am a hobbyist. When I write a piece, I fret, scrutinize, and analyze every note and section, and listen to the piece over and over and over (and over and over) again, to the point where the song can become mundane.



Excellent post. During the process of arranging and recording a song, it hasn't yet become mundane to me because I'm still in creative mode. But, by the time the song is mixed and released, my ears need a well-deserved break. Only after some time has gone by and I've lost some acclimation to the song, I can revisit it and enjoy my accomplishment.




Scalms said:


> I've always wondered this, especially about artists who tour the world, playing their same song over and over again, do they get sick of it to the point where the song has lost most of its original thrill?



It doesn't matter if you wrote it or not. When you are requested to play the same song at every gig, week after week, year after year, _that's_ when you earn your money. A good entertainer will play a song for the millionth time with as much enthusiasm as the first time they played it, but it's almost always acting.

If you go to an Oktoberfest celebration where a polka band is playing and request "Roll Out the Barrel", the bandleader might respond with enthusiasm since that's his job, but quickly scan the faces of the other band members for eye rolls and gag reflexes.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Polkasound said:


> If you go to an Oktoberfest celebration where a polka band is playing and request "Roll Out the Barrel", the bandleader might respond with enthusiasm since that's his job, but quickly scan the faces of the other band members for eye rolls and gag reflexes.


Oh no! Not Roll out the barrel AGAIN! lmao. Yeah, just play it with a smile and get your money tonight lol


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

When i wrote this post, i didn't expect such a response as it got. I have learnt a lot from the replies that i didn't expect.
By the way, i am a hobbyist too, i may like listening to my music but the people i have sent demos out to obviously don't 
Never mind, i make myself happy


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## muk (Jul 10, 2020)

When writing a piece I will listen to it a lot naturally. When it is finished, I will listen to it for a few days, maybe three or four. After that I stop listening to the piece. There are very few pieces that I wrote a while ago and still listen to occasionally. These are the ones that I am really happy with. With all my other pieces, after a while I find too many things that I don't like anymore about them, so I loose interest.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

muk said:


> When writing a piece I will listen to it a lot naturally. When it is finished, I will listen to it for a few days, maybe three or four. After that I stop listening to the piece. There are very few pieces that I wrote a while ago and still listen to occasionally. These are the ones that I am really happy with. With all my other pieces, after a while I find too many things that I don't like anymore about them, so I loose interest.


That is understandable.
I'm not saying i listen to everything i have ever writen cos a lot of it is crap lol but like you, the ones that i'm really happy with, yes and the ones that sound good here and there, i will listen to, to see if i can better the bits that don't sound as good.
The ones i really REALLY like, are the ones that i do loads of versions of. An orchestral version, a synth version even a solo instrument version (usualy piano). One track i wrote as Trance with a female singer, i then took her vocals and did a rock ballad version and a more upbeat EDM version.
One track of mine doesn't mean that it for that track lol


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## Robert_G (Jul 10, 2020)

When I got into this almost 2 years ago, I had no intentions of doing it for money. It is a hobby and I do it for the sole purpose of composing music that I want to listen too. I listen to my music all the time. There is definitely better music out there that is done more professionally, but my melodies and chord progressions and choice of instruments are exactly what I like and what I want to listen to. When you listen to my songs, that IS my taste in music. I could care less if others like it or not. Ironically, I find people either really like my music a lot or don't like it at all.

I've grown up in the 90s with JRPGs. Very unique and niche style of music. There were a handful of Japanese composers who would do symphonies and arranged pieces from original videogames. New 90s style arranged JRPG music is a thing of the past. Very hard to find new stuff....so THAT is what I compose mostly now.

I took this piece from Final Fantasy Adventure for the Gameboy and re-orchestrated it from the ground up with Celtic Era. You either really like it or probably not at all. I listen to it all the time. It's on my playlist.

Why would people make music that they don't listen to unless they are getting paid for it?








"Mission of Mana" (Celtic Remix) from Final Fantasy Adventure (Seiken Densetsu) - Kenji Ito


I used the original composition and re-orchestrated it from the ground up with strings and Celtic instruments. Celtic instruments are from the Celtic Era. A very sad song and a fan favorite. I would have loved to see this track done by Kenji Ito on Final Fantasy IV - Celtic Moon. It might be a...




vi-control.net


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## Violeiro (Jul 10, 2020)

I came to a thought, that its very easy to find a specific recording pale and meaningless If we listen too many times to It, but the same thing doesnt happen to a Melody - and to the rhythm which is embedded to the Melody and probably not to the harmony either, considered on itself. I would go far as to say that lyrics also remain perennial.

Think on a very good lullaby with a catchy Melody, a person can sing it the whole life and its never less inspiring; but listen 50 times to a track and It inspires each time less.

Therefore, I think this might prevail regarding our own compositions on which we had much laboured - we wouldnt be so touched by the same recording, but get a new musical instrument you never played before, and playing it would look delightful.


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## Arthur Lewis (Jul 10, 2020)

Some thoughts I haven’t seen yet in this thread:

It’s possible to love the process of writing, and the process of getting better over time, without actually loving the result. In fact, I think that’s the only surefire way to emerge from that beginner period (which lasts some of us our entire lives) where your taste outstrips your ability with your sanity intact.
Listening to someone else’s music is fundamentally different from listening to your own. I do love my some of my music but it doesn’t reveal new depths to me with every listen. It doesn’t teach me about another person or make me feel like I’m sharing their experience.
I occasionally listen to my own music, but for the above reasons, not very often.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> When I got into this almost 2 years ago, I had no intentions of doing it for money. It is a hobby and I do it for the sole purpose of composing music that I want to listen too. I listen to my music all the time. There is definitely better music out there that is done more professionally, but my melodies and chord progressions and choice of instruments are exactly what I like and what I want to listen to. When you listen to my songs, that IS my taste in music. I could care less if others like it or not. Ironically, I find people either really like my music or don't like it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly. I didn't start composing to make money out of it. I started for the sheer love of music and now, i am one of the lucky people that can create something that can bring joy to others. If i did get paid for it, that would be a great bonus. After all, i have spent in the region of around 30k over the years just to create something that me and a handfull of others will ever hear. Earning money from it helps us buy that big fat synth or that Gibson Les Paul Custom or that Spitfire Symphonic Motions lol.
I have always said a composer generally writes what HE wants to hear. If you write what a director wants to hear, it is still something you have writen. You may not like it as much but you should still like it.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> "Mission of Mana" (Celtic Remix) from Final Fantasy Adventure (Seiken Densetsu) - Kenji Ito
> 
> 
> I used the original composition and re-orchestrated it from the ground up with strings and Celtic instruments. Celtic instruments are from the Celtic Era. A very sad song and a fan favorite. I would have loved to see this track done by Kenji Ito on Final Fantasy IV - Celtic Moon. It might be a...
> ...



By the way, i did listen to this and although Final Fantasy was a game i never got into, i can't judge what you have reworked compared to the orininal piece but as a stand alone piece i am hearing for the first time, i think it sounded wonderful and the orchestration was great


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## Robert_G (Jul 10, 2020)

Arthur Lewis said:


> Listening to someone else’s music is fundamentally different from listening to your own. I do love my some of my music but it doesn’t reveal new depths to me with every listen.




I'm going to take a wild guess that you are in your 20s. I could be wrong, but when you are pushing 50 and beyond like me, you've heard it all. I doubt after all the music I've listened to in over 45 years of memory, that someone is going to come to the table with something brand new or a style I've never heard that I would actually favor. I know what's out there. I know what other composers make, and I know what I want to listen to. That said.....I will compose similar music the best I can. That doesn't mean I don't listen to other people's music, because their music that I do listen to is going to be my style...which in turn will drive me to compose better music in the style I prefer.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Arthur Lewis said:


> Some thoughts I haven’t seen yet in this thread:
> 
> It’s possible to love the process of writing, and the process of getting better over time, without actually loving the result. In fact, I think that’s the only surefire way to emerge from that beginner period (which lasts some of us our entire lives) where your taste outstrips your ability with your sanity intact.
> Listening to someone else’s music is fundamentally different from listening to your own. I do love my some of my music but it doesn’t reveal new depths to me with every listen. It doesn’t teach me about another person or make me feel like I’m sharing their experience.
> I occasionally listen to my own music, but for the above reasons, not very often.


Ok, fair enough. When i listen back to my early works that started around 78/79 (yes i'm old lol) i do cringe. What did i know about music, not a lot. Now, i know enough for me to be able to write pretty good music. Yes that is experience but what i do with that experience now is, listen to my cringe worthy music of them days and improve it to sound better now. I don't know what your experience level is but i do know that the more you learn, the better you become.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 10, 2020)

Well I am considerably older than you, Robert G. , and I constantly take inspiration from my fellow travelers on this lifelong music career I embarked on many years ago, whether it be songs, scores, or concert hall pieces.

NEVER stop learning, NEVER stop growing, NEVER doubt that you have something unique and worthwhile to contribute.


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## Robert_G (Jul 10, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Well I am considerably older than you, Robert G. , and I constantly take inspiration from my fellow travelers on this lifelong music career I embarked on many years ago, whether it be songs, scores, or concert hall pieces.
> 
> NEVER stop learning, NEVER stop growing, NEVER doubt that you have something unique and worthwhile to contribute.



I'm not disagreeing with you but I hated EDM 30 years ago and I hate it today. I have no intentions of ever listening to it no matter how good it is. I still listen to symphony and orchestra music all the time, as well as whatever I can find that is like JRPGs....and yes I agree you never stop learning...nor do I have any intentions on stopping.


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## Robert_G (Jul 10, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Well I am considerably older than you, Robert G. , and I constantly take inspiration from my fellow travelers on this lifelong music career I embarked on many years ago, whether it be songs, scores, or concert hall pieces.
> 
> NEVER stop learning, NEVER stop growing, NEVER doubt that you have something unique and worthwhile to contribute.



Also Jay, is it fair to say that you have to be more flexible considering you get paid from people who have some say in what you make and how you make it?
When you don't get paid, you don't actually have to answer to anyone. That being said, I always ask for and want constructive criticism on my songs.

If you listen to them and tell me that the strings are too heavy or the chord progression doesn't work...I'm 100% listening. On the other hand, if you tell me I need to write a different style of music because it isn't in your taste....that isn't something I take into consideration....not that I think you'd ever say that.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Also Jay, is it fair to say that you have to be more flexible considering you get paid from people who have some say in what you make and how you make it?
> When you don't get paid, you don't actually have to answer to anyone. That being said, I always ask for and want constructive criticism on my songs.
> 
> If you listen to them and tell me that the strings are too heavy or the chord progression doesn't work...I'm 100% listening. On the other hand, if you tell me I need to write a different style of music because it isn't in your taste....that isn't something I take into consideration....not that I think you'd ever say that.


OMG how many times. Constructive criticism lol. I really do appreciate constructive criticism on my music and ONLY usually by another composer/musician. How many times has a bloke critisised my music and he hasn't a clue about the structure of music lol. There is one other annoying thing that winds me up even from a composer and that is, when i ask them for it, they don't say 'maybe the stings in that section would sound better softer or an octave lower' they say 'i would have stopped that bass line at this point and not had those chords on the winds there'. I didn't ask how YOU would have writen it, i asked what do you think of this piece of music THAT I have writen lmao. The first one IS constructive criticism, the second one IS NOTHING TO DO with constuctive criticism! How many times have any of you had that


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## Arthur Lewis (Jul 10, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> I'm going to take a wild guess that you are in your 20s. I could be wrong, but when you are pushing 50 and beyond like me, you've heard it all. I doubt after all the music I've listened to in over 45 years of memory, that someone is going to come to the table with something brand new or a style I've never heard that I would actually favor. I know what's out there. I know what other composers make, and I know what I want to listen to. That said.....I will compose similar music the best I can. That doesn't mean I don't listen to other people's music, because their music that I do listen to is going to be my style...which in turn will drive me to compose better music in the style I prefer.



Heh. I'm 40. But it's hard to imagine I'll ever be old enough to feel like I've "heard it all". Maybe this is because I live mostly in the pop/soul/hip-hop world, and the sort of composition this forum tends to be about is something I'm just starting to lean into? That said, this seems to be a bit of a misinterpretation of what I was saying, which is that other people's music that you're _already famliar with_ still has the capacity to reveal new insights on multiple listens in a way that your own music often doesn't.


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## Robert_G (Jul 10, 2020)

Arthur Lewis said:


> Heh. I'm 40. But it's hard to imagine I'll ever be old enough to feel like I've "heard it all". Maybe this is because I live mostly in the pop/soul/hip-hop world, and the sort of composition this forum tends to be about is something I'm just starting to lean into? That said, this seems to be a bit of a misinterpretation of what I was saying, which is that other people's music that you're _already famliar with_ still has the capacity to reveal new insights on multiple listens in a way that your own music often doesn't.



Fair enough...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 10, 2020)

Arthur Lewis said:


> Heh. I'm 40. But it's hard to imagine I'll ever be old enough to feel like I've "heard it all". Maybe this is because I live mostly in the pop/soul/hip-hop world, and the sort of composition this forum tends to be about is something I'm just starting to lean into? That said, this seems to be a bit of a misinterpretation of what I was saying, which is that other people's music that you're _already famliar with_ still has the capacity to reveal new insights on multiple listens in a way that your own music often doesn't.


Yes, music you are already familiar with can do that whereas your own music, you already know inside out.
What happened to me when i was 17 (1975) i was heavily into Zeppelin, Purple and all them rock bands. I still used to lie on my bed at night with my headphones on and the light off and listen to classical music. This particular night, i was listening to 1812 Overture by Tchaikovsky. I had heard this piece 100's of times. This night though, i was listening to it and i really started to listen. Why did he use them chords here, what was that flute line that iv'e never noticed before, why did the basses go that way and so on. I got so into it, something happened to me that had never happened before in my life. The hairs on the back of my neck and arms started to go up and my whole body had a weird sensation and i started to cry. The tears where streaming down my face and it scared the hell out of me! Now i now what it was. I was listening so hard to it, i heard the pure emotion in the piece i had never noticed before after 100's of plays. To this day, when ever i hear that piece, i have to fight back the tears lol. When you REALLY listen to other peoples music, you may hear what you was meant to hear from the first time you played that track.
That will never happen when you listen to your own music.


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## bill5 (Jul 10, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Wow, i find that very hard to understand.


Ironically, I find your response very hard to understand. I find the world to be an ever-increasingly obnoxiously LOUD place and treasure silence (or something very close to it) a great deal.

Back to the orig question: hardly ever, whether I think it's good or not, because I already listened to it a million times over when I was composing/recording/mixing/whatevering it. I'm not into listening to anything over and over and over and over and over etc. Even if I had the talent and the success, I could never tour, playing those same songs again and again, I'd so hate it!


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## Robert_G (Jul 10, 2020)

bill5 said:


> . I'm not into listening to anything over and over and over and over and over etc. Even if I had the talent and the success, I could never tour, playing those same songs again and again, I'd so hate it!



Maybe I'm wrong here, but I'm not sure a anyone is talking about being in love with themselves that much. I might listen to my music even though I spent hours composing it, but its not running hourly on a playlist like my local crap radio station. 
I agree with you that I would hate to tour and play the same songs every day plus practice. That would be obnoxious. For me, I'll be happy when I have 30 or so songs done that I can listen to a couple times a week each. That isn't overly repetitive at all.


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## bill5 (Jul 10, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Maybe I'm wrong here, but I'm not sure a anyone is talking about being in love with themselves that much.


? Me either. I'm saying I've already heard it so many times that by the time it's done I'm sick of it.



> I agree with you that I would hate to tour and play the same songs every day plus practice. That would be obnoxious. For me, I'll be happy when I have 30 or so songs done that I can listen to a couple times a week each. That isn't overly repetitive at all.


For me it is.  It's not unlike songs that are beat to death on the radio and because of it, even though it may be a great song, I rarely if ever want to hear it again.


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## Rossy (Jul 10, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> The question is this...
> As a composer,do you listen to your own music a lot?
> 
> The reason why I ask is, I have been writing for about 45 years now. I listen to my music a hell of a lot because, i am always extending older pieces or adding mid sections so I listen all the time to see where i can add or extend and also, if you have seen my #nerdingfortheweekend video, you will know that i am always re-writing my music into different styles.
> ...


As a new composer, I can never get satisfied with my work. As a session musician, it was easy to listen to my stuff because it really wasnt my stuff but now I write for myse6, it's hard to listen to my composition and not be overly critical. That's why I wrote for the spitfire competition but never submitted it, everyone just seems that much bett5than my own.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 10, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Also Jay, is it fair to say that you have to be more flexible considering you get paid from people who have some say in what you make and how you make it?
> When you don't get paid, you don't actually have to answer to anyone. That being said, I always ask for and want constructive criticism on my songs.
> 
> If you listen to them and tell me that the strings are too heavy or the chord progression doesn't work...I'm 100% listening. On the other hand, if you tell me I need to write a different style of music because it isn't in your taste....that isn't something I take into consideration....not that I think you'd ever say that.



It’s fair to say, but it isn’t entirely accurate. I grew up in an era where on the same radio station you would hear, Th Beatles and the Stones, Janis Joplin,Sly and the Family Stone, and Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra. My mom played Broadway show albums and my dad liked Sarah Vaughn and Glenn Miller. So by nature, I am someone whose tastes are all over the map, and if ou listen to my album and then listen to “Zorro” and other orchestral stuff I have done, you hear that. I don’t have a style. 

I studies classical music and avant- grade at Boston Conservatory Because I thought “someday I may need that.” I took jazz piano for a year, not because I am a big jazz guy, but I thought, “someday I might need that.” I played in. A country GUI for a month with Bobby Gentry and Jim Stafoord when I was the only guy in the band who wasn’t a Country music musician because I thought, “someday I might need that. “ 

And I too don care for EDM Or Hip Hop, but I can turn off my taste and put on my craftsman hat and try to figure out what makes it tick, because someday “I might need that.” 

All of that of course relates to my interest in being hired to score or arrange but also because I have always loved learning new things.

But now I am back to writing and singing my pop songs and that is what I think is the most authentic me, musically.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 11, 2020)

Rossy said:


> As a new composer, I can never get satisfied with my work. As a session musician, it was easy to listen to my stuff because it really wasnt my stuff but now I write for myse6, it's hard to listen to my composition and not be overly critical. That's why I wrote for the spitfire competition but never submitted it, everyone just seems that much bett5than my own.


As a new composer, i can understand that but the more you compose, the more you understand about composing. As a session musician, you will be way advanced in the structure of music so it shouldn't thake you that long to find you own sound.
Regarding the Spitfire Westworld competion, you should still have entered. You had nothing to loose like the rest of us. I knew i had no hope of coming close to winning but i still entered for that little bit of exposure and experience


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 11, 2020)

bill5 said:


> Ironically, I find your response very hard to understand. I find the world to be an ever-increasingly obnoxiously LOUD place and treasure silence (or something very close to it) a great deal.
> 
> Back to the orig question: hardly ever, whether I think it's good or not, because I already listened to it a million times over when I was composing/recording/mixing/whatevering it. I'm not into listening to anything over and over and over and over and over etc. Even if I had the talent and the success, I could never tour, playing those same songs again and again, I'd so hate it!


Ok thats a fair coment as that is how you feel. I suppose i don't understand that because i don't feel that way. What i should try to understand is that we are all individuals that have very differnt thoughts in life.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 11, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Maybe I'm wrong here, but I'm not sure a anyone is talking about being in love with themselves that much.


Blimey, i hope i haven't given off that impression by writing this post. I don't sit hear and play my own music over and over all day long 
I was just curious to know if other composers like to listen to their own music as complete tracks after they have finished that track like i do. I didn't expect some of you you say you hate your music once you have writen it.
All i am trying to say is, if i write a piece of music that i am really proud of ( which to be honest is more often than not) why wouldn't i want to listen to it just as a piece of music and not something i wrote. Thats all


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## Violeiro (Jul 11, 2020)

Rachmaninov on Sunday night:
"Wow, finally the time to SWING!"


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 11, 2020)

Ok, i am trying to get some of you to understand why i do listen to my own music. I listen to it as 'pieces of music' not 'something i have writen'.

I want to give you 2 examples.
These two pieces, i did for pianobook. The first piece Deep Space Rendezvous, i originally wrote as a Trance track in 2005/2006.
The second piece Misty Mountains, i actually wrote for the Sonva Piano on Pianobook.
They are both beautiful pieces and i am highly proud of both of them but as music, not what i wrote but just music, why wouldn't i want to play them again and again. I am not trying to boast here, i am trying to understand that, if you had writen these, you would honestly say that you would never want to hear them again as pieces of music.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 11, 2020)

Rob said:


> No, I usually can't stand the music I've done, recordings included... to be honest, I don't listen to music at all. After hours of working on music, practice, writing etc all I want is silence


This.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 11, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> This.



What a shame, because you make some really good music that I enjoy, Larry.


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## JEPA (Jul 11, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> This.


+ 1


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## AllanH (Jul 11, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> The question is this...
> As a composer,do you listen to your own music a lot?
> ...



This is a really good question. I happen to listen to my own music all the time. It's especially fun to listen to pieces from a few years ago - some are (now) just terrible while other pieces hold up nicely (imo).

I do listen to other music, especially Thomas Bergersen, TSHF, Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, and the romantic classics. 

Listing to "the greats" and then my own is the only way I know how to improve. It can be a bit depressing, especially after listening to Thomas Bergersen


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 11, 2020)

AllanH said:


> This is a really good question. I happen to listen to my own music all the time. It's especially fun to listen to pieces from a few years ago - some are (now) just terrible while other pieces hold up nicely (imo).
> 
> I do listen to other music, especially Thomas Bergersen, TSHF, Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, and the romantic classics.
> 
> Listing to "the greats" and then my own is the only way I know how to improve. It can be a bit depressing, especially after listening to Thomas Bergersen


That is so true, for us to improve we have to listen to other more experienced composers.
I wouldn't get too depressed listening to your own music after listening to them, after all, they are called 'The Masters' for a reason


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## Robert_G (Jul 11, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> It’s fair to say, but it isn’t entirely accurate. I grew up in an era where on the same radio station you would hear, Th Beatles and the Stones, Janis Joplin,Sly and the Family Stone, and Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra. My mom played Broadway show albums and my dad liked Sarah Vaughn and Glenn Miller. So by nature, I am someone whose tastes are all over the map, and if ou listen to my album and then listen to “Zorro” and other orchestral stuff I have done, you hear that. I don’t have a style.
> 
> I studies classical music and avant- grade at Boston Conservatory Because I thought “someday I may need that.” I took jazz piano for a year, not because I am a big jazz guy, but I thought, “someday I might need that.” I played in. A country GUI for a month with Bobby Gentry and Jim Stafoord when I was the only guy in the band who wasn’t a Country music musician because I thought, “someday I might need that. “
> 
> ...



You sound very well rounded, and I think it's fair to say that the amount of hours I've devoted to this in my life compared to you is a mere fraction, although I may be gaining some ground....lol (not that I'll ever catch up to you)

Interesting that you can turn off your taste to see how something ticks even if it's not your thing. I believe that is more of a personality trait of who you are. If someone asked me to judge a rap music contest, I'd say no. I'd rather watch paint dry. Doesn't mean I'm less diverse than you. It simply means I have different ideas on how I will use my time.

But from reading this and other posts of yours.....making music is much more engrained in your life than it is for myself....not to say I don't take it seriously or give it 100%. I just view it in a way that I want to make MY favorite music. You will never see Jazz or Rap in my Soundcloud account....ever.

Kind of like a farmer. I know farmers who do beef, eggs, produce, cedar hedges, etc....all one farm.
I know farmers who ONLY do dairy. It may or may not have anything to do with financial goals. It's just personal preference.

Would you say the dairy farmer is limiting himself Jay, or that he is just focusing on what he loves?


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## darcvision (Jul 11, 2020)

sometimes i listen to my own track, usually for wasting time, or review-ing my track if i made a mistake, and thinking why i did that. mostly about mixing problem like, limiter hit too hard, too much compression, frequency problem and many more. even silly mistake like automating stereo imager from start to finish, adding reverb on sub-bass, and not using limiter when mastering.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 11, 2020)

stefandy31 said:


> sometimes i listen to my own track, usually for wasting time, or review-ing my track if i made a mistake, and thinking why i did that. mostly about mixing problem like, limiter hit too hard, too much compression, frequency problem and many more. even silly mistake like automating stereo imager from start to finish, adding reverb on sub-bass, and not using limiter when mastering.


Yes, that is usualy what we all do but i mean do you listen to your track as a piece of music?


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## Kevin Thurman (Jul 11, 2020)

Yes I do. Often I will go through my archives and listen to things in batches. Especially things that I composed just for fun or for future projects that I haven't had time (or more importantly budget) to flesh out yet. Sometimes it's just a trip down memory lane, sometimes it leads me to finishing things that were left unfinished.


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## Dear Villain (Jul 12, 2020)

I listen to my music all the time. I figure since very few others are going to listen to it, I may as well be its biggest (only) fan.


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## MA-Simon (Jul 12, 2020)

My dad is a piano player.
He would never record his performance and play it back. He just does not want to hear if he messed up. (Or he feels like recording yourself is just not something one should do, because that would be a weird big ego thing.)

I personally have found that listening to my playing does help myself identify my issues and helps me to work on them.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 12, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> You sound very well rounded, and I think it's fair to say that the amount of hours I've devoted to this in my life compared to you is a mere fraction, although I may be gaining some ground....lol (not that I'll ever catch up to you)
> 
> Interesting that you can turn off your taste to see how something ticks even if it's not your thing. I believe that is more of a personality trait of who you are. If someone asked me to judge a rap music contest, I'd say no. I'd rather watch paint dry. Doesn't mean I'm less diverse than you. It simply means I have different ideas on how I will use my time.
> 
> ...



I am a lifelong musician. I don’t know where the musician ends and the “me” begins. It’s my occupation, my avocation, and my passion. I eat, live, and breathe it.

I don’t know a lot of farmers, but I doubt many of them would say, “I am passionate about cows. “

I will throw it back at you, would you only eat one food group? All veggies, no fruit, dairy or grains? You are free to do as you choose, but musically, you are not eating from enough of the food groups, in my view.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 12, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> My dad is a piano player.
> He would never record his performance and play it back. He just does not want to hear if he messed up. (Or he feels like recording yourself is just not something one should do, because that would be a weird big ego thing.)
> 
> I personally have found that listening to my playing does help myself identify my issues and helps me to work on them.


I don't think it's an 'ego' thing, i just think it's, 'i like that piece of music even if it was me that wrote it, i want to hear it again' thing. Well, it is for me lol


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 12, 2020)

So, i decided to do a video to try and explain whay i asked this question and why i do listen to my own music.
I have put some of my music in the video to show you waht i mean but i have put skip points in if you don't want to listen to the music.
I hope the audio levels are ok, if not, you got a volume control


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## Robert_G (Jul 12, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I am a lifelong musician. I don’t know where the musician ends and the “me” begins. It’s my occupation, my avocation, and my passion. I eat, live, and breathe it.
> 
> I don’t know a lot of farmers, but I doubt many of them would say, “I am passionate about cows. “



That's an assumption. Many farmers are passionate about their cows.



Ashermusic said:


> I will throw it back at you, would you only eat one food group? All veggies, no fruit, dairy or grains? You are free to do as you choose, but musically, you are not eating from enough of the food groups, in my view.



All 4 food groups are needed to be as healthy as possible. I'm not sure if your analogy works, but I'll try to answer. I only get to eat so many calories a day, so I want to enjoy them. I'm willing to try any new food in a very small portion, but 99.9% of what I eat is what I enjoy the most. 

If someone told me there was a new genre of music that was just invented, I would probably listen to it. If I didn't like it, the trial would be brief and then discarded.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 12, 2020)

So, i have just thought of a another reason why i may still listen to my own music as 'music i like'.

As i mentioned in my video, i do tend to write pretty quick. Usually, when i start a piece, the rest sort of flows out of me. So maybe from start to finish of the actual piece (not the mixing or mastering) i may not hear it as much as some of you.
Having said that though, if it is something that really strikes me, i generally don't get bored with it for a very long time.

When i was 17, i was in a band. We where a cover band and we used to play pubs and clubs doing rock n roll songs and rock tracks from the 70's. Music that i had heard over and over but i still enjoyed hearing them track even if it was my band playing them.

Yes our set was tracks we all liked from bands we all liked so that's why we enjoyed playing them over and over and the public used to enjoy hearing them over and over. Win win situation lol


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## darcvision (Jul 12, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Yes, that is usualy what we all do but i mean do you listen to your track as a piece of music?


yeah, of course. and i realized i never satistifed with my music, so there's always a room for improvement.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 12, 2020)

stefandy31 said:


> yeah, of course. and i realized i never satistifed with my music, so there's always a room for improvement.


Yes there is that of course. A painter generally knows when he has finished his work of art. Composers on the other hand are always adding.
There have been times when i have posted a track online then a week later, i ave added to it so i take it down and put the extended version up.
When do we stop lol


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## Mornats (Jul 13, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> A painter generally knows when he has finished his work of art.


Nope! It's quite a skill to know when a painting or drawing is finished. And it's hard to stop sometimes too, just like with composing.
Also, Antoine de Saint-Exupery said "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." It's worth going over a finished piece to see what can be taken out as I've had compositions improved by doing that.


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## schiing (Jul 13, 2020)

Thanks for putting this thread together, Keith. I really enjoyed reading how other music makers relate to their own music - I've often wondered how "normal" my own habits are in this regard.

Here's my take: My music can be a lot of different things. Sometimes I'm just trying to find a pretty melody. Other times I might try to emulate a certain style, or create a particular mood. Or I might try to build the greatest mix ever. Other times still, I'm just a synth programmer doing his thing. 

Occasionally I try to bring all the elements together - but it isn't always important, as I don't write music for any particular purpose.

I listen to my tracks a million times when I'm working on them, I mean, compulsively, obsessively - even little snippet ones.

Once that's done, I like to listen to my own music as it relates to other music. So I keep most of my stuff in my music library and in all my random playlists. How does that 15 year old pop song hold up today? Not at all? My voice is still crap and I couldn't mix for s***? Okay, that's sorted, then. Once I've reached my verdict, I will skip it - usually within a minute.

It's funny, all my efforts are geared towards creating music that is perfect to my own ears, but I don't think I will ever reach a point where I'll listen to my own music for emotional gratification.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 13, 2020)

schiing said:


> It's funny, all my efforts are geared towards creating music that is perfect to my own ears, but I don't think I will ever reach a point where I'll listen to my own music for emotional gratification.


I never thought i would either but all three of my pieces that play in my video give me emotional gratification esspecially the first piece. Like i say in the video, i'm not being big headed or above other composers, i am just saying what i feel and what i sometimes get from my music. I can't help it if that's what happens now. It never used to.


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## schiing (Jul 13, 2020)

Don't worry, Keith - it's a wonderful thing that you can feel this way about your own music!


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