# Samuel Barber - Adagio for strings. Possible setup?



## PeterN (Feb 2, 2019)

About this piece (Samuel Barber - Adagio for strings)

Is anyone familliar with the setup? Is that a whole string ensemble: bass, cello, violas, 1st and 2nd violins? Or is there some peculiar setup here? How many of each instruments would that be: chamber size or symphonic? Flautando, con sordino?


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## PeterN (Feb 2, 2019)

And how come you cant get sample libraries even near this kind of sound?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 2, 2019)

PeterN said:


> About this piece (Samuel Baber - Adagio for strings)
> 
> Is anyone familliar with the setup? Is that a whole string ensemble: bass, cello, violas, 1st and 2nd violins? Or is there some peculiar setup here? How many of each instruments would that be: chamber size or symphonic? Flautando, con sordino?




renditions vary from its original form for a string quartet..to bigger symphonic ensemble sizes. Flautando (fast bow with producing lots of air.."flute like..you know..therefore the term..)has nothing to do with that piece here..

The bowing is very specific here, because the piece is so slow. Normally to camouflage bowing changes the ensemble have different desks where they bow slightly different therefore, but is also a matter of taste and interpretation..





PeterN said:


> And how come you cant get sample libraries even near this kind of sound?



How come? Boy..I don´t know..its just bad luck. And it is Saturday..and thats a good thing, isn´t it? I mean that we have live players for that.


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## calebfaith (Feb 2, 2019)

PeterN said:


> And how come you cant get sample libraries even near this kind of sound?



I think CSS + CSSS could get pretty close to this sound


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 2, 2019)

calebfaith said:


> I think CSS + CSSS could get pretty close to this sound



I doubt..the expression and vibrato is very unobstrusive especially in the beginning..maybe for later sections..


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## PeterN (Feb 2, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> renditions vary from its original form for a string quartet..to bigger symphonic ensemble sizes. Flautando (fast bow with producing lots of air.."flute like..you know..therefore the term..)has nothing to do with that piece here..
> 
> The bowing is very specific here, because the piece is so slow. Normally to camouflage bowing changes the ensemble have different desks where they bow slightly different therefore, but is also a matter of taste and interpretation..
> 
> ...



Thanks Alexander. But how about that one in the video I put there. Would you be able to give an estimation?

Im looking for a chart like this. Example:

5 first string violins
5 second string violins
3 violas
4 cellos
4 bass

Is that possible to estimate? Sorry pushing this. Maybe someone has seen the notation.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 2, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I doubt..the expression and vibrato is very unobstrusive especially in the beginning..maybe for later sections..



This piece might be one of the best examples (like Beethoven's later Kammermusik or Mahler in general) of something that might _*never*_ be adequately captured by non-phrase based sample libraries. 

Some might argue that such seemingly untouchable Classics of profound expressivity are proof of how vital the live instrumental player is today still, and in this context that vitality has nothing to to do with the actual live performance-as-spectacle.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 2, 2019)

PeterN said:


> Thanks Alexander. But how about that one in the video I put there. Would you be able to give an estimation?
> 
> Im looking for a chart like this. Example:
> 
> ...



The Capella Istropolitana was originally a chamber sized ensemble..exact numbers...hmm, its guessing but but maybe 4,3,2,2,1 or something


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## mikeh-375 (Feb 2, 2019)

Peter, that size of section you mention is unbalanced. Something like 6,6,4,4,2 is better or perhaps 6,4, 4,2,1 -anything that reduces the bass to a proportional weight. Just search on youtube to see the score.


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## DMDComposer (Feb 2, 2019)

PeterN said:


> Maybe someone has seen the notation.



Sheet Music


You can see how many players there are.


And can we recreate this on samples? Sure. Will it sound like the live recording and give the same emotional pull? Never....


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## PeterN (Feb 2, 2019)

DMDComposer said:


> Sheet Music
> 
> 
> You can see how many players there are.
> ...




On the live video there several cellos. Making the ”softish” low.


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## Vik (Feb 2, 2019)

PeterN said:


> And how come you cant get sample libraries even near this kind of sound?


Here's a version with Cinematic Strings2:

A CS2/CSS comparison:


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## PeterN (Feb 2, 2019)

Vik said:


> Here's a version with Cinematic Strings2:
> 
> A CS2/CSS comparison:




Interesting.

Thanks man


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## Eloy (Feb 2, 2019)

PeterN said:


> And how come you cant get sample libraries even near this kind of sound?


Here’s a beautiful version by Michael Hula https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Music - just look under Barber.


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## PeterN (Feb 2, 2019)

Eloy said:


> Here’s a beautiful version by Michael Hula https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Music - just look under Barber.




*Its fuc*ing good. *

Every time Ive heard Vienna strings, they come closest to what I appreciate in the sampled string sound. And I have bought over 10 string libraries - but not Vienna.

But that was like a God calling: ”_come back home, you lost soul, you are searching for me_”. Maybe one day I delete all other string libraries, buy Vienna, and go back to my ancestral land. Will God forgive me - all the wrong steps I made. I pray forgiveness.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 2, 2019)

PeterN said:


> *Its fuc*ing good. *
> 
> Every time Ive heard Vienna strings, they come closest to what I appreciate in the sampled string sound. And I have bought over 10 string libraries - but not Vienna.
> 
> But that was like a God calling: ”_come back home, you lost soul, you are searching for me_”. Maybe one day I delete all other string libraries, buy Vienna, and go back to my ancestral land. Will God forgive me - all the wrong steps I made. I pray forgiveness.



Sure, great plan because good sounding mockups have nothing to do with the person sitting behind :D Also next time go and do a very basic google search for obtaining most basic infos like knowing ensemble sizes for a piece like adagio for strings, or basic bowing techniques :D Just joking a bit but man..I hope you don´t delete all your current string libraries.


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## PeterN (Feb 2, 2019)

But even Vienna cant do those higher notes on cellos properly. This seems to be the reason no sample library can tackle this, the cellos go high in register in the original piece.


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## Eloy (Feb 2, 2019)

PeterN said:


> But even Vienna cant do those higher notes on cellos properly. This seems to be the reason no sample library can tackle this, the cellos go high in register in the original piece.



Peter,
I use a combination of VSL (they have every articulation you will need for large,chamber and solo strings-VI series) and Afflatus strings (which does not have all the articulations) for realism (not hyped/compressed/noisy/to much reverb sounds of other string libraries - and I have a ton of them - but keep coming back to VSL). They compliment each other so well. Afflatus does give you the higher register cello great legato or any other legato ( violin, viola, cello and bass -large and chamber strings). With this combination you will be able to write what you want -when you want (provided you have learned orchestration and how to use your tools)!
Eloy


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## WhiteNoiz (Feb 3, 2019)

https://www.prestomusic.com/sheet-m...l-barber-adagio-for-strings-score-parts#about



> Original version of this much celebrated composition. Scored as follows:
> 8 x Violin 1
> 8 x Violin 2
> 4 x Viola
> ...



https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/artifact/e06a857a-1bfd-4d92-80a1-06acd103d0d2-0.1


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## PeterN (Feb 3, 2019)

WhiteNoiz said:


> https://www.prestomusic.com/sheet-m...l-barber-adagio-for-strings-score-parts#about
> 
> 
> 
> https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/artifact/e06a857a-1bfd-4d92-80a1-06acd103d0d2-0.1



Thanks a lot.


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## Bill the Lesser (Feb 3, 2019)

DMDComposer said:


> And can we recreate this on samples? Sure. Will it sound like the live recording and give the same emotional pull? Never....


I'm absolutely sure we will never be able to recreate the emotional pull of _seeing_ music performed, which so greatly enhances the emotional transfer between player and audience. But I'll reserve judgement on the emotional potential of sampled performances for a few more years.

As Eloy pointed out, there are some wonderful sampled performances on the VSL site, along with some not so good. Whether sampled or live, it's all a matter of the skill of the presenters in the art of communicating emotions through sound. Like learning a physical instrument, the path to skillful sample use is a long, hard road littered with with less than worthy struggles.


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## PeterN (Feb 3, 2019)

So I got curious about the story on this piece. But nothing in particular to dig up. We do know that Samuel Barber had bouts of alcoholism and depression. Ive written here in some thread that alcohol and hangovers can bring melodies. That is, composing in a sensitive hangover. In a quiet room, far away, alone. Especially if u had some story going on. As a contrast for the ”make a chord progression” modern approach. Nothing I try to recommend, but I can imagine Barber put Adagio together in a sensitive hangover. With related sadness. Or maybe he didnt. Or maybe he did. But its not the ordinary loudmouthed american guy hanging on some beach in California. There is more to it. And a rare delicate american sensitivity, to try to articulate it somehow.


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## WhiteNoiz (Feb 3, 2019)

PeterN said:


> Thanks a lot.




Here's another mockup:
https://clyp.it/ohaeya3u?token=e91ec297fb69a5c8fb2c0620b4740d94

Ideally should spend a few more hours or days on it but whatever, I got bored.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 5, 2019)

As much as I admire the Barber piece, I like what Alfred Newman did with that kind of feel much better. Starting at 0:24...so hauntingly beautiful yet sad.


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