# New iMac Pro - Released this Thursday



## jonathanwright (Dec 12, 2017)

More details for those interested:

https://www.apple.com/imac-pro/

Starting price of $4,999.

Released on Thursday.


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## Christof (Dec 12, 2017)

jonathanwright said:


> Starting price of $4,999.


This is insane.And you won't be able to open this thing.Not upgradable.
I'll wait for 2018 when Apple releases the new modular Mac Pro (announced).


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## jneebz (Dec 12, 2017)

Christof said:


> This is insane.And you won't be able to open this thing.Not upgradable.
> I'll wait for 2018 when Apple releases the new modular Mac Pro (announced).


So I'm assuming you fall into the "NOT interested" category?


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## John Busby (Dec 12, 2017)

i think the specs are impressive actually
18 cores in an imac? that's crazy


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 12, 2017)

jonathanwright said:


> More details for those interested:
> 
> https://www.apple.com/imac-pro/
> 
> ...



It will be interesting to see the pricing for the 18-core. I suspect it will be in the $12,000+ range with RAM maxed out.


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## Soundhound (Dec 12, 2017)

Can you buy your own ram for this, or do you have to pay Apple's gigantic markup?


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## John Busby (Dec 12, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> Can you buy your own ram for this, or do you have to pay Apple's gigantic markup?


it doesn't look upgradable


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## Andrew Aversa (Dec 12, 2017)

The pricing really is ridiculous compared to PC, not to mention the Apple upgrade premium, poor airflow/cooling, and lack of easy upgradeability. Unless you absolutely must have OSX at all costs, and you cannot imagine using anything else, there is no reason to buy this. You can certainly get your own beautiful standalone display that can match the iMac's display quality. 

Just for fun I specced out a PC build with the same specs as the base model (Intel 8core, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 28" 4K monitor). The price came out to $3000. 

I then did a build with 18 cores, 128GB RAM, and the fastest consumer GPU possible, as well as 2TB NVME SSD instead of just 1TB, and even that came out to $6000, which will probably be FAR lower than their top spec...


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## Symfoniq (Dec 12, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> Can you buy your own ram for this, or do you have to pay Apple's gigantic markup?



The iMac Pro is completely sealed. You can't swap memory modules or anything else.


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## Soundhound (Dec 12, 2017)

That's what I thought. Yikes. I don't want to know what Apple charges for 64 or 128 gigs of ram.

Edit: Yes I do, apparently. 64 gigs on an iMac is $1,400. They are out of their freaking minds.



Symfoniq said:


> The iMac Pro is completely sealed. You can't swap memory modules or anything else.


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## Christof (Dec 12, 2017)

jneebz said:


> So I'm assuming you fall into the "NOT interested" category?


Exactly.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 12, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> That's what I thought. Yikes. I don't want to know what Apple charges for 64 or 128 gigs of ram.
> 
> Edit: Yes I do, apparently. 64 gigs on an iMac is $1,400. They are out of their freaking minds.



Insane, isn't it? That's the cost of a nice Windows slave.


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## Sebastianmu (Dec 12, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> Yes I do, apparently. 64 gigs on an iMac is $1,400. They are out of their freaking minds.


Come on guys. Your getting this all wrong. This is obviously meant to be a toy for someone of the like of a Saudi prince. Someone, for whom the price tag is part of the essence of the thing itself!


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## synthpunk (Dec 12, 2017)

Thats my mortgage payment : )


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## Vik (Dec 12, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I suspect it will be in the $12,000+ range with RAM maxed out.


http://www.zdnet.com/article/want-a...sit-down-at-more-than-17k-this-is-gonna-hurt/


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## Andrew Aversa (Dec 12, 2017)

Wow, that's even worse than I thought. You could build 3x 18core 128gb 2tb ssd max-GPU Windows machines for that price... WITH monitors...


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## Vik (Dec 12, 2017)

I think he's only guessing.


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## InLight-Tone (Dec 12, 2017)

$5000+ extra for a status symbol, brand name, no thanks...


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## FriFlo (Dec 12, 2017)

They really must be out of their minds ... to me it seems like they seem to consider the pro segment only worth investing in, if they can charge ridiculous prices with that - even more so than their laptops, mobil phones and tablets ... with these the overcharge seems justifiable to me, if the product is convincing. But in this price category I will pass! This makes me very skeptical towards a possible new Mac Pro in 2018 (or later). My 2010 Mac Pro ist still ok for now, but it will not last longer than 1 - 2 years for my purposes and I think I make a move towards Windows, but they still have time to come up with something decent until then!


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## synthpunk (Dec 12, 2017)

No, not really, there not making this for frugal composers , it is going to be used in art studio's, business, university's that can afford them. They make out a P.O. and bam


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## John Busby (Dec 12, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> hey make out a P.O. and bam


yep pretty much lol


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## Soundhound (Dec 12, 2017)

New slogan for Apple: Official computer of the 1%.


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## synthpunk (Dec 12, 2017)

Other models are available and still work fine just not 18 core ones. I'm sure anyone who can buy one works hard for there money has earned it my friend.



Soundhound said:


> New slogan for Apple: Official computer of the 1%.


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## ColonelMarquand (Dec 12, 2017)

I'll probably get one loaded with 128 GBs of ram. I don't need or even use that much ram but I'll get it just for the hell of it.


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## Soundhound (Dec 12, 2017)

Really? Try growing up on the upper east side of NYC, you may feel differently.



synthpunk said:


> Other models are available and still work fine just not 18 core ones. I'm sure anyone who can buy one works hard for there money has earned it my friend.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 12, 2017)

I would take less issue with the expense if the computer solved a particular problem better than less expensive alternatives. But I don't know any professional Mac users whose primary need is more power in a very expensive, non-upgradeable, AIO form factor. It's as if Apple believes the "trash can" Mac Pro was a failure because the RAM was upgradeable and the screen wasn't built-in.


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## synthpunk (Dec 12, 2017)

I grew up in Hell's Kitchen and worked my way out, didn't wine about it. But back on topic.



Soundhound said:


> Really? Try growing up on the upper east side of NYC, you may feel differently.


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## Britpack50 (Dec 12, 2017)

Made the move to PC last year. Running pro tools has not been fun. USB issues on an ASUS motherboard, thunderbolt took a degree to solve. A year later, pro tools is OK but for orchestration I moved to Cubase and all is well. So, swings and roundabouts, but I put up with it all because I refused to be forced to pay hundreds of dollars for extra hardware just to connect another SSD to a Mac that I would have spent double (£10k), to get the same spec. 

And this nails it. Won't be going back to mac for my main recording computer. Still use the cheese grater for email an interweb.


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## samphony (Dec 12, 2017)

Christof said:


> This is insane.And you won't be able to open this thing.Not upgradable.
> I'll wait for 2018 when Apple releases the new modular Mac Pro (announced).


I just upgraded my trashcan Vader Pro from 6 to 12 Core for 500€ at is insane what it can handle now. But I’ll checkout the upcoming Mac Pro. If it doesn’t suit my needs, which I doubt, I’ll get a 4core trashpro and upgrade to a 12core anytime again.


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## samphony (Dec 12, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> Wow, that's even worse than I thought. You could build 3x 18core 128gb 2tb ssd max-GPU Windows machines for that price... WITH monitors...


Where???


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## JW (Dec 12, 2017)

Is it really true you can't upgrade later and add more ram as you need it? That is so frustrating and maddening.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 12, 2017)

johnbusbymusic said:


> it doesn't look upgradable


Thinking of getting one then...?


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 12, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> I grew up in Hell's Kitchen and worked my way out, didn't wine about it. But back on topic.


I think I will buy 7 of them for Slaves and then a Modular Mac Pro with 2x24 cores CPUs in as a Master for VE PRO 

Said the Saudi Prince to his Father...


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## Soundhound (Dec 12, 2017)

That's the point, you may not have witnessed a wide swath of trust fund kids. Or maybe you did. Maybe you didn't understand what I was saying.



synthpunk said:


> I grew up in Hell's Kitchen and worked my way out, didn't wine about it. But back on topic.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 12, 2017)

*The NEW iMac Pro!! Sheikh a Leg....made of Diamond *


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## Soundhound (Dec 12, 2017)

This is what I'm thinking of doing. I want a larger screen, so that makes any iMac a question for me. But more it's the outrageous price. I too want to see what the next Mac Pros are like. But a quad core helmet upgraded to 8 10 or 12 is where I think I'll wind up. 

I've been on Mac since the mid eighties and am way too old to learn new tricks. But if apple keeps this up I may need to go to old dog school. 




samphony said:


> I just upgraded my trashcan Vader Pro from 6 to 12 Core for 500€ at is insane what it can handle now. But I’ll checkout the upcoming Mac Pro. If it doesn’t suit my needs, which I doubt, I’ll get a 4core trashpro and upgrade to a 12core anytime again.


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## paulmatthew (Dec 12, 2017)

Apple : Driving customers away yearly. I've been an apple user for 6 years but I'm almost done with them . My next computer will be a PC whether I like windows or not . Apple has been increasing their pricing and making it harder to impossible to upgrade their devices with every release . Their user base will continue to decline and drop off drastically at some point if they continue with this mentality. As much as I love their operating system , the change to PC is inevitable. Thank you Apple for making the choice that much easier for me.


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## synthpunk (Dec 12, 2017)

Or work 3 jobs to get the things you need and want. 



Soundhound said:


> That's the point, you may not have witnessed a wide swath of trust fund kids. Or maybe you did. Maybe you didn't understand what I was saying.





Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I think I will buy 7 of them for Slaves and then a Modular Mac Pro with 2x24 cores CPUs in as a Master for VE PRO
> 
> Said the Saudi Prince to his Father...


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## Soundhound (Dec 12, 2017)

Or buy it all as PCs and spend a month traveling the world with the money you save. 



synthpunk said:


> Or work 3 jobs to get the things you need and want.


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## synthpunk (Dec 12, 2017)

The trust fund kids only came in my neighborhood for drugs and hookers 



Soundhound said:


> That's the point, you may not have witnessed a wide swath of trust fund kids. Or maybe you did. Maybe you didn't understand what I was saying.


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## synthpunk (Dec 12, 2017)

Paul, look up Bios, then run away lol



paulmatthew said:


> Apple : Driving customers away yearly. I've been an apple user for 6 years but I'm almost done with them . My next computer will be a PC whether I like windows or not . Apple has been increasing their pricing and making it harder to impossible to upgrade their devices with every release . Their user base will continue to decline and drop off drastically at some point if they continue with this mentality. As much as I love their operating system , the change to PC is inevitable. Thank you Apple for making the choice that much easier for me.


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## paulmatthew (Dec 12, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Paul, look up Bios, then run away lol


I know but$$$$$


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## bjderganc (Dec 12, 2017)

Since they haven't released the actual CPU specs I'm skeptical that these are even as good as the current-gen iMacs for general audio work. One site suggested the Xeons were rebranded i9s, based on some conspicuous Geekbench scores that surfaced a few months ago.

I have a Mac and a PC, and certainly prefer the Mac for its simplicity (core audio <3), but for those on Windows looking at this new iMac, a machine from a custom builder is probably worth considering. The support and streamlined OS from a company like VisionDAW should mitigate most user troubleshooting, while costing less and offering more than the iMac Pro. 

I guess we'll see on Thursday.


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## tmhuud (Dec 12, 2017)

A lot of Apple Mac products do not seem very upgradable AT FIRST. My nMacPro was rather un-upgradeable when first purchased but today I can replace pretty much everything in it myself, CPU, SSD's, Ram, etc. 

I'm not advocating the new iMac. I would not buy one as I've seen too many overheat but given time I'm sure you'll be able to change some things out/make improvements.


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## Soundhound (Dec 12, 2017)

When they weren't copping on the lower east side. 



synthpunk said:


> The trust fund kids only came in my neighborhood for drugs and hookers


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## rlw (Dec 12, 2017)

I need a new Mac now unfortunately. Not sure I can wait until 2018. I have a 2013 macbook pro with a PC slave with 64gb. I am running out of ram and having to use 512 buffer. The buffer is killing me and I am also using up the ram on the PC slave with some of my templates. 
I am waiting to see the cost of 10core and 128gb Ram or else buying a Vader with 12 core and 128gb for 5k . I am not also sure you can't add memory or hard drives on the new iMac Pro. If I am not mistaken, you can upgrade the iMac according to OWC. Not sure I like my options.


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## GdT (Dec 13, 2017)

I see the specs on Apple web site make no mention of how much noise the thing produces. If to use one in a studio this is a very important thing to know.


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## rlw (Dec 13, 2017)

GdT said:


> I see the specs on Apple web site make no mention of how much noise the thing produces. If to use one in a studio this is a very important thing to know.


My concern also.


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## samphony (Dec 13, 2017)

rlw said:


> I need a new Mac now unfortunately. Not sure I can wait until 2018. I have a 2013 macbook pro with a PC slave with 64gb. I am running out of ram and having to use 512 buffer. The buffer is killing me and I am also using up the ram on the PC slave with some of my templates.
> I am waiting to see the cost of 10core and 128gb Ram or else buying a Vader with 12 core and 128gb for 5k . I am not also sure you can't add memory or hard drives on the new iMac Pro. If I am not mistaken, you can upgrade the iMac according to OWC. Not sure I like my options.


Instead of iMac pro you could get a top 27“ iMac and get ram separate on the cheap.

I think the base model iMac pro with 8core Xeon and 32GB is a decent machine especially if you have a sample playout pc.

Also if you use cubase exclusively you could switch platforms.


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## samphony (Dec 13, 2017)

But then what most pc users forget. A Mac is a Mac because of its workflow. Many people use more that just the daw putthenamehere. Therefore it’s also the small things users like and why they decide to get this over that.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 13, 2017)

Dare I say overkill for most of us?


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## Puzzlefactory (Dec 13, 2017)

£5 grand...? I don’t think so.


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## Sovereign (Dec 13, 2017)

rlw said:


> I need a new Mac now unfortunately. Not sure I can wait until 2018. I have a 2013 macbook pro with a PC slave with 64gb. I am running out of ram and having to use 512 buffer. The buffer is killing me and I am also using up the ram on the PC slave with some of my templates.
> I am waiting to see the cost of 10core and 128gb Ram or else buying a Vader with 12 core and 128gb for 5k . I am not also sure you can't add memory or hard drives on the new iMac Pro. If I am not mistaken, you can upgrade the iMac according to OWC. Not sure I like my options.


You can upgrade the trashcan Mac Pro with a regular Samsung NVME 960 Evo drive these days if you want more storage.


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## synthpunk (Dec 13, 2017)

Really ? Not doubting you but can you share some info on this please ?

You can also upgrade the processor up to 10 or 12 cores.



Sovereign said:


> You can upgrade the trashcan Mac Pro with a regular Samsung NVME 960 Evo drive these days if you want more storage.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 13, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Really ? Not doubting you but can you share some info on this please ?
> 
> You can also upgrade the processor up to 10 or 12 cores.



I'm pretty sure an adapter is required, since Apple's PCIe connector is different from the NVMe connector.

See more here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/nvme-is-working-mac-pro-2013-6-1.2085886/


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## Damarus (Dec 13, 2017)

The iMac pro is not going to upgrade-able. There is no 'door' on the back where you usually access RAM at the least.

The mac debate is always interesting to me. The Pro lineup of Apple has always favored video editing IMO. Why would we need dual graphics cards, and server grade processors for audio? DAWs rely mostly on single core speed. The top of the line iMac 5k has a 7700k and up to 64 GB of ram, which has a faster single-core speed than the new iMac pros for a couple thousand dollars less..

If you're not tied to Apple, build a PC with a 7700k/8700k processor for half the price.


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## synthpunk (Dec 13, 2017)

Tx, do you think we should start a separate thread for this ?

It might also be wise to mention that it seems like NVMe does runs hotter.

ps The adapter is out of stock currently on Amazon if anyone has any other reliable sources for U.S. ?



Symfoniq said:


> I'm pretty sure an adapter is required, since Apple's PCIe connector is different from the NVMe connector.
> 
> See more here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/nvme-is-working-mac-pro-2013-6-1.2085886/


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## ptram (Dec 13, 2017)

Is it available in pink?


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 13, 2017)

I think the point of this machine has been missed, only touched on above

This isn’t a machine designed for Kontakt instances. It’s for graphics, video, development and VR.

Also likely that most users won’t be using their own money to get hold of it.

The ram price is daylight robbery though..


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## gsilbers (Dec 13, 2017)

samphony said:


> Instead of iMac pro you could get a top 27“ iMac and get ram separate on the cheap.
> 
> I think the base model iMac pro with 8core Xeon and 32GB is a decent machine especially if you have a sample playout pc.
> 
> Also if you use cubase exclusively you could switch platforms.




I also just saw some 2012 cheese grater mac pros with 128gb of ram for $2k. its 3.46ghz 8 core of those older xeons but still, for music imo its be fine. i have an upgraded 2009 Mac Pro w 64b of ram and its been great so far. i do think those older iMacs are prolly way faster though. the only thing is having a second pc w ram warming up the room and complicating things a bit is not for me, unless i have a bigger project. man, aren't i spoiled! : )


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## Sovereign (Dec 13, 2017)

Symfoniq said:


> I'm pretty sure an adapter is required, since Apple's PCIe connector is different from the NVMe connector.
> 
> See more here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/nvme-is-working-mac-pro-2013-6-1.2085886/


Yep, I also posted in that thread. A 10$ adapter will do the job. I upgraded to a 1TB 960 EVO.


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## robgb (Dec 13, 2017)

I'm a Mac guy (after years on PC), but the pricing on this is ridiculous.


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## gsilbers (Dec 13, 2017)

Alex Fraser said:


> I think the point of this machine has been missed, only touched on above
> 
> This isn’t a machine designed for Kontakt instances. It’s for graphics, video, development and VR.
> 
> ...



hmm.. i think we all got the memo back when the trashcan came out  

I am not sure how many "pros" will use it for graphics, video and VR though. Maybe for offlines, and photoshop. 
but glad apple did the 128gb ram thing. at least have the option for it. yes, price is crazy.


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## Soundhound (Dec 13, 2017)

This, totally. Steve Jobs was obsessed with design, it runs deep in the Apple dna. When they talk about a machine for creative purposes, their thinking is always about visual creativity, graphic design, photography, layout, film etc. When it comes to music they think about cool things you can do with synths, edm etc. If they think about it at all. 

>sigh<




Alex Fraser said:


> I think the point of this machine has been missed, only touched on above
> 
> This isn’t a machine designed for Kontakt instances. It’s for graphics, video, development and VR.
> 
> ...


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 13, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> This, totally. Steve Jobs was obsessed with design, it runs deep in the Apple dna. When they talk about a machine for creative purposes, their thinking is always about visual creativity, graphic design, photography, layout, film etc. When it comes to music they think about cool things you can do with synths, edm etc. If they think about it at all.
> 
> >sigh<


Exactly.

And here’s the thing. When the new MacPro is revealed, it’ll be pricey. They’ll be numerous forum users pricing up a similar spec PC for less money. And they’ll be many voices of dissent towards Apple. 

Thing is, the vast majority of Apple’s music making customers are already well served with current hardware. In fact they already have more power than they’ll ever need. The core user found on VI control who requires serious hardware for serious mockups is but a fraction (of a fraction) of Apple’s customer base.

We’re really not Apple’s target audience. It doesn’t mean we can’t use Apple gear, but that dream Mac desktop for audio probably isn’t coming anytime soon.

As an aside, I love my iMac..


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## John Busby (Dec 13, 2017)

Alex Fraser said:


> I love my iMac..


Me too, 2015 5k i5 here, couldn't be happier


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## seclusion3 (Dec 13, 2017)

For [email protected] n giggles it will be fun to spec out the top of the line machine and see what it comes out too.. My guess, $5k base, 128 ram $3k, 4 TB ssd $2.5k, 18 Core, $4k.
Just guessing, likely a $15k machine. That’s in US funds, in Canada I guess it’ll be more like $20k...
All said in done though, they look really slick beast. I’m also curious how it applies to audio.
My 2017 i7 iMac is enough for what I use in Logic Pro, fans only kick in if I am coverting in handbrake, I don’t hear the fans working in Logic.
All iMac’s are “non-upgradable”, however I suspect there will be upgrades available for Ram and SSD as there has been for every Mac to date.
Not sure if people have done cpu or video updates in iMac’s.


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## Soundhound (Dec 13, 2017)

I love mine too. Well, love/hate, but mostly because mine has been in the shop almost as much as it's been in my studio this year. I've been using macs since the 80s, I hope to leave this mortal coil someday without ever really learning windows. Maybe enough to run a sample slave machine, but no more...

I'm interested to see what the 2018 Mac Pro brings. If it were configurable to be a good audio platform—with plenty of video juice for scoring to picture but not saddled with expensive stuff that really is meant for VR etc—that would be great. But my guess is even if that were possible, it would still be wildly overpriced.

Which would mean a 2013 mac pro for me. Hopefully investing in a 2013 one once the new mac pro comes out won't mean missing out on too much new technology. Seems like the 2013s could start to become the new cheese graters...

I need to start looking into sources for upgrading the 2013 mac pro processors. The only one I know of is OWC, they will install for you and I'd want that. But they seem to have an ever changing list of what's available. Right now they only have 4 and 6 core...






Alex Fraser said:


> Exactly.
> 
> And here’s the thing. When the new MacPro is revealed, it’ll be pricey. They’ll be numerous forum users pricing up a similar spec PC for less money. And they’ll be many voices of dissent towards Apple.
> 
> ...


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## synthpunk (Dec 13, 2017)

I have given this subject it's own thread. Please feel free to post. Tx

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/using-a-nvme-ssd-in-mac-pro-2013.67329/



Sovereign said:


> Yep, I also posted in that thread. A 10$ adapter will do the job. I upgraded to a 1TB 960 EVO.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 13, 2017)

johnbusbymusic said:


> Me too, 2015 5k i5 here, couldn't be happier



Yes, you could. If you had an i7 to compare it too, you would see there is a big difference.


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## John Busby (Dec 13, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Yes, you could. If you had an i7 to compare it too, you would see there is a big difference.


ha, i meant with what i have Jay, not with what i didn't have the cash for at the time


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## Ashermusic (Dec 13, 2017)

johnbusbymusic said:


> ha, i meant with what i have Jay, not with what i didn't have the cash for at the time



I know and I understand. I want the new Imac Pro really badly but I just had 15k worth of work fall through, so, not going to happen.


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## storyteller (Dec 14, 2017)

So... 128GB/1Tb/18-core comes out to around $9.5k. Overall, not too crazy at all. Actually - very respectable. The SSD upgrade is bonkers, though. I’m curious about the modular mac-pro too. Not sure which way my next upgrade will take me.

Love my current 27” maxed out iMac i7 and am curious about the new iMac Pro audio performance since it has been shown that DAWs perform better with faster clock speeds. More cores may mean more plugins, but for most people here, realtime track counts and latency are more important - so it will be interesting to see what happens. Unless daws can figure out how to unload their primary audio processing outside of the first core, it may be strange to think, but a Quad core iMac may perform better than any of these new iMac Pro configurations (due to speed alone). Might be wrong there, but turbo boosts are not ideal for heavy baseline load of the daw audio engine on a single core. More cores would be great for mix engineers, though.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 14, 2017)

storyteller said:


> So... 128GB/1Tb/18-core comes out to around $9.5k. Overall, not too crazy at all. Actually - very respectable. The SSD upgrade is bonkers, though. I’m curious about the modular mac-pro too. Not sure which way my next upgrade will take me.
> 
> Love my current 27” maxed out iMac i7 and am curious about the new iMac Pro audio performance since it has been shown that DAWs perform better with faster clock speeds. More cores may mean more plugins, but for most people here, realtime track counts and latency are more important - so it will be interesting to see what happens. Unless daws can figure out how to unload their primary audio processing outside of the first core, it may be strange to think, but a Quad core iMac may perform better than any of these new iMac Pro configurations (due to speed alone). Might be wrong there, but turbo boosts are not ideal for heavy baseline load of the daw audio engine on a single core. More cores would be great for mix engineers, though.


18-Core CPU awesome, 1TB SSD, perhaps even go for the 4TB..but never would I buy RAM from Apple 

If I use the lower Radeon and least RAM (OWC order for upgrade)..I am looking at £10,200
With Apple RAM over £12,000


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## seclusion3 (Dec 14, 2017)

Not sure, but hearing the ram is not user upgradeable without pulling the machine apart.


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## rlw (Dec 14, 2017)

Just ordered 10 core, 1TB ssd with 128gb ram. 8.3 k out the door with Apple care and tax. May be sorry I didn’t go with more cores but decided that I need external disk array and was spenting all I needed to today.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 14, 2017)

seclusion3 said:


> Not sure, but hearing the ram is not user upgradeable without pulling the machine apart.



You can be sure. This was confirmed by Apple many months ago.


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 14, 2017)

rlw said:


> Just ordered 10 core, 1TB ssd with 128gb ram. 8.3 k out the door with Apple care and tax. May be sorry I didn’t go with more cores but decided that I need external disk array and was spenting all I needed to today.


Wow. Enjoy! I’m jealous..


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## KMA (Dec 14, 2017)

Just priced it.

Maxed out, the total is 16k CAD.


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## synthpunk (Dec 14, 2017)

you can always return it  



rlw said:


> Just ordered 10 core, 1TB ssd with 128gb ram. 8.3 k out the door with Apple care and tax. May be sorry I didn’t go with more cores but decided that I need external disk array and was spenting all I needed to today.


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## GdT (Dec 14, 2017)

rlw said:


> Just ordered 10 core, 1TB ssd with 128gb ram. 8.3 k out the door with Apple care and tax. May be sorry I didn’t go with more cores but decided that I need external disk array and was spenting all I needed to today.


When you get it running please, if you have one, can you put an SPL meter in front of it and let us know what the SPL dB A weighted reading shows up as.
Personnally I am very interested in the specs but don't like the form factor. The spec mentions an internal fan. This must make some noise. And in a studio it would be slap bang in between the speakers. I would prefer a form factor where I can put the main processor box under the desk for example in a sound proofed box and just have the screen on the desk.


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## samphony (Dec 14, 2017)

GdT said:


> When you get it running please, if you have one, can you put an SPL meter in front of it and let us know what the SPL dB A weighted reading shows up as.
> Personnally I am very interested in the specs but don't like the form factor. The spec mentions an internal fan. This must make some noise. And in a studio it would be slap bang in between the speakers. I would prefer a form factor where I can put the main processor box under the desk for example in a sound proofed box and just have the screen on the desk.


What do you think the engineers tested this with? Photos App and iMovie?


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## John Zuker (Dec 14, 2017)

What kind of mileage does it get? I'm assuming at this price you can drive it, or maybe use it as a small bedroom addition to your home?


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## rlw (Dec 14, 2017)

GdT said:


> When you get it running please, if you have one, can you put an SPL meter in front of it and let us know what the SPL dB A weighted reading shows up as.
> Personnally I am very interested in the specs but don't like the form factor. The spec mentions an internal fan. This must make some noise. And in a studio it would be slap bang in between the speakers. I would prefer a form factor where I can put the main processor box under the desk for example in a sound proofed box and just have the screen on the desk.


This is my greatest concern. But I have been assured that I can bring it back (in 15 days). However, talked with Apple business rep and he has several large production houses in Atlanta that have also ordered (and some of the testing team who believe that fan noise currently will not be an issue - for the moment. The only thing no one knows that over time (when aged) will this become an issue. I have a macbook pro 2013 that the fan is much louder today than when I bought it. Anyway I am really going to put it under pressure to see if I am unhappy. Otherwise, I will have to decide if I am going backwards to my old set up and then wait for the new Mac Pro.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 14, 2017)

samphony said:


> What do you think the engineers tested this with? Photos App and iMovie?



Based on numerous documented CPU throttling issues with iMacs and MacBook Pros, I think the answer is probably "yes."


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## rlw (Dec 14, 2017)

John Zuker said:


> What kind of mileage does it get? I'm assuming at this price you can drive it, or maybe use it as a small bedroom addition to your home?


My wife agrees with you. She wants to know when she will get to drive it ...


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## sherief83 (Dec 14, 2017)

reading through the comments....to me, the Price is not ridiculous. Its priced for the Pro market that actually makes money off content. If you ask me, its a good investment, even maxed out but thats the key word, if you go for it, think of it as as that reliable investment in your business. You'd use this and rely on it for money making just as you would a car to your job.

So lets not go PC VS Mac Pricing...These arguments are Old.

Everyone has their own flow and knows what they need to accomplish their final Product. If this imac makes it happen without the hastle of building PCs and having the knowledge to troubleshoot if the build is not reliable (something builders deny sometimes), then the imac pro is for you and none of us should shame anyone for it.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 14, 2017)

sherief83 said:


> reading through the comments....to me, the Price is not ridiculous. Its priced for the Pro market that actually makes money off content.



Not sure about this. 
For me, the pricing rather aims at a market that doesn't care about money, because it's money that's provided elsewhere but not from one's own work (like e.g. a university or a similar institution).
Personally, i make "money off content", but i also work really hard, and so, the last thing that i would do, is to throw away the money i'm working for. It would be disrespectful against myself. 

Apple really should get their feet back on the ground. 
Machines, that are not upgradable in any sense are a total sin against environment protection. Such devices should simply be forbidden. Regarding the huge problems with the waste produced by consumerism, which will generate immense problems for the generations following us, it is simply unbelievable that it is allowed to sell devices that can't be modified/upgraded later. 
And a pricing that claims between two and three times the actual value of the used components is just cynical.
Apple provides a fantastic OS; but regarding the prices they want for their hardware, they behave like a psychopath on coke. On the long run that's not a way to go, that's for sure.


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## FriFlo (Dec 14, 2017)

rlw said:


> This is my greatest concern. But I have been assured that I can bring it back (in 15 days). However, talked with Apple business rep and he has several large production houses in Atlanta that have also ordered (and some of the testing team who believe that fan noise currently will not be an issue - for the moment. The only thing no one knows that over time (when aged) will this become an issue. I have a macbook pro 2013 that the fan is much louder today than when I bought it. Anyway I am really going to put it under pressure to see if I am unhappy. Otherwise, I will have to decide if I am going backwards to my old set up and then wait for the new Mac Pro.


The other thing you should be aware of is that PCs generally get louder over time due to dust collecting within the machine. With a PC or Mac tower (or even the 2013 Mac Pro) you can easily solve that problem by opening it and applying a can of compressed air. But here? I am not sure, maybe you can do the same though the ventilation openings, but probably not as effectively ... I would not only take the noise level now into consideration, but also what it might become. That is why I will probably never buy an all in one desktop machine for the studio, regardless how good (or affordable) it is.


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 14, 2017)

Coming from the position of an iMac user since 2011, I'd certainly consider an iMac Pro as my next machine.

Regarding fan noise. It's not been an issue. Right now, I'm typing on the iMac. I can hear the fan if I really listen for it. But I can also hear the fridge next door, some wind outside etc. The only time it becomes intrusive is on a very hot summers day (rare here in the UK) where the temperate is so hot in my studio, I'm down to my underpants.

Regarding the upgradeability. Ram generally a one time deal. Get the right amount in the machine from the get-go. Storage is always external and most are well served with SSD/Thunderbolt. The processor? Maybe you'd swap that out only once, if you had a PC or MacPro.

So, in reality, how much are you *really* going to upgrade your computer over it's lifespan? Just 'playin devils advocate..

A


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## Living Fossil (Dec 14, 2017)

Alex Fraser said:


> So, in reality, how much are you *really* going to upgrade your computer over it's lifespan?



So far, I've updated every single machine (with the exception of an iBook, which i used rather as a notebook when travelling) at least two times, in average three times. Usually i upgraded the Ram at a certain point, and i always changed the hard disks to bigger models. And always added additional drives when possible.
Not to mention my actual MBP, which had the mainboard exchanged 4 times (because that model couldn't handle very well the heat).


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## MarcelM (Dec 14, 2017)

Alex Fraser said:


> Coming from the position of an iMac user since 2011, I'd certainly consider an iMac Pro as my next machine.
> 
> Regarding fan noise. It's not been an issue. Right now, I'm typing on the iMac. I can hear the fan if I really listen for it. But I can also hear the fridge next door, some wind outside etc. The only time it becomes intrusive is on a very hot summers day (rare here in the UK) where the temperate is so hot in my studio, I'm down to my underpants.
> 
> ...



if you would be able to renew the thermal compound on the cpu you wouldnt hear the fan at all. or lets say you wanted to replace the fan if it gets noisy... no chances? no thx!
actually thermal compound should be renewed after a while, and i would never buy a machine where this plus some inside cleaning isnt possible.


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## Andrew Aversa (Dec 14, 2017)

On my PC I've added about 4 hard drives, doubled the RAM, changed graphics cards multiple times, etc. I plan on adding a new PCI card to support another M2 SSD, as well as swapping the processor. Plus I've been able to overclock and get a full +1GHZ out of the thing. Very nice to be able to upgrade regularly.


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## FriFlo (Dec 14, 2017)

Well, I hope this does not appear to be an Mac vs PC debate. It isn't from my POW, because I run a Mac Pro in my studio as the main machine. And there was a time when I said things like "... the extra price for a Mac is worth it for what you get!" But for the 2013 Mac Pro and this machine alike, I do not like what I see at all.
The lack of expandability does not only mean not being able to upgrade for more speed or memory, it also means, the more machines like this they develop, people sticking with Apple will have to buy machines they don't actually need! E.g., if someone needs an I/O configuration like the iMac pro, but the normal iMac would be just fine, he will have to buy a machine for double the price he/she actually needs. This just comes of to me as completely being without touch with people and what they want and need and rather trying to exploit the brand affinity. On the long run, this will drive lots of people away from Macs, as the Mac Pro 2013 already managed to do. But hey! We know, it is not REALLY important to Apple, as PCs is not a big thing for them anymore ...
Still, I hope they will do something good and sensible for the upcoming modular Mac Pro. I just don't have very high hopes, I must confess. I like Mac OS, but not up to the point of Masochism!


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## rlw (Dec 14, 2017)

There are many valid reasons not to buy the new iMac pros. For me it was a decision about work flow. I have been working too hard and lost too much time trying to make music with the old rig. I needed the ram and cpu to make my work flow work. I like my DAW and do not want to change to learn a new DAW because a PC is cheaper. Again, its about music and I do not have time to waste on technology issues. Its simple, if your willing to pay the price for the convenience of work flow then go for it. Hopefully, I will make better music if I am not fighting with large buffers or changing my DAW in order to buy a better value in compute power. If I don't make better music, then I've wasted my money .


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 14, 2017)

rlw said:


> There are many valid reasons not to buy the new iMac pros. For me it was a decision about work flow. I have been working too hard and lost too much time trying to make music with the old rig. I needed the ram and cpu to make my work flow work. I like my DAW and do not want to change to learn a new DAW because a PC is cheaper. Again, its about music and I do not have time to waste on technology issues. Its simple, if your willing to pay the price for the convenience of work flow then go for it. Hopefully, I will make better music if I am not fighting with large buffers or changing my DAW in order to buy a better value in compute power. If I don't make better music, then I've wasted my money .



Just wondering....what made you choose that over a regular iMac? With the regular iMac you can upgrade th Ram yourself, and there's plenty of power.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 14, 2017)

rlw said:


> There are many valid reasons not to buy the new iMac pros. For me it was a decision about work flow. I have been working too hard and lost too much time trying to make music with the old rig. I needed the ram and cpu to make my work flow work. I like my DAW and do not want to change to learn a new DAW because a PC is cheaper. Again, its about music and I do not have time to waste on technology issues.



I totally understand this perspective. Productivity trumps everything. Transitions are hard, and rarely efficient in the short term.

On the other hand, over the last few years, I increasingly felt like I had to shoehorn my needs into Apple's philosophy of what a computer should be. This is backwards, and I could no longer in good conscience throw money at a company whose products fit like a shoe three sizes too small.

All that to say, I understand where people on both sides are coming from: It's hard to leave Apple, but they also aren't making it easy to stay.


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## rlw (Dec 14, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Just wondering....what made you choose that over a regular iMac? With the regular iMac you can upgrade the Ram yourself, and there's plenty of power.


The major reason I choose the iMac pro is that I wanted 128gb of Ram and wanted a machine that would serve me for 5 years at least. The current iMac is limited to 64gb of ram. On the other hand, I did not want to learn Cubase at this time just to save money on hardware. Its very possible that Apple will push to obsolete the older machines. I don't have time for crusades for or against Apple. Apple will continue to squeeze as hard as possible. I have both Mac and PCs. At some point someone will replace Apple with something better and it may likely be on linux. Open source software is the wave of the future but for music that is still some time away. As for Macs, I really like how the team behind Logic Pro listen to the users and the quality of their releases. They make it easier for composers to create. I considered a refurbished Mac Pro 12 Core 128gb for $5000 + ( addition SDD raids) but felt this was somewhat risky for 5 year old technology. There have been some hard lessons I've learned in the past that can be summed in the old adage ("spend too little and you waste it all, spend too much and you wasted some"). In late 1980s I bought a Compact 368 processor computer (most of you don't even know about those processors) with 16mb of ram for $8000 and that lasted me 5 years. (the dollar was worth 5 times to what it is today) I bought my first Mitsubishi Cell phone that weighted like a brick (25 lbs) for $1700 that lasted me almost 4 years. FYI: Just a note, In my first years my cell phone bills where $2000 a month. Each one of those decisions served me well. So $8500 for the Imac Pro is cheap in comparison to what I spent in the past for tech.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 14, 2017)

@rlw that totally makes sense. I love Mac as well, and don't intend on ever switching....although I use a PC slave which is great. If your new Mac gets the job done, is reliable, and holds up for many years, then the investment is definitely worth every penny IMO. If it's a part of your business, you could even write it off on your taxes (in Canada, anyways). You must be stoked!


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## Britpack50 (Dec 15, 2017)

Living Fossil said:


> Not sure about this.
> For me, the pricing rather aims at a market that doesn't care about money, because it's money that's provided elsewhere but not from one's own work (like e.g. a university or a similar institution).
> Personally, i make "money off content", but i also work really hard, and so, the last thing that i would do, is to throw away the money i'm working for. It would be disrespectful against myself.
> 
> ...



Here here! The redundancy baked into Apple's strategy (driven by both their hardware and software) is not of its time.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 15, 2017)

rlw said:


> The major reason I choose the iMac pro is that I wanted 128gb of Ram and wanted a machine that would serve me for 5 years at least. The current iMac is limited to 64gb of ram. On the other hand, I did not want to learn Cubase at this time just to save money on hardware. Its very possible that Apple will push to obsolete the older machines. I don't have time for crusades for or against Apple. Apple will continue to squeeze as hard as possible. I have both Mac and PCs. At some point someone will replace Apple with something better and it may likely be on linux. Open source software is the wave of the future but for music that is still some time away. As for Macs, I really like how the team behind Logic Pro listen to the users and the quality of their releases. They make it easier for composers to create. I considered a refurbished Mac Pro 12 Core 128gb for $5000 + ( addition SDD raids) but felt this was somewhat risky for 5 year old technology. There have been some hard lessons I've learned in the past that can be summed in the old adage ("spend too little and you waste it all, spend too much and you wasted some"). In late 1980s I bought a Compact 368 processor computer (most of you don't even know about those processors) with 16mb of ram for $8000 and that lasted me 5 years. (the dollar was worth 5 times to what it is today) I bought my first Mitsubishi Cell phone that weighted like a brick (25 lbs) for $1700 that lasted me almost 4 years. FYI: Just a note, In my first years my cell phone bills where $2000 a month. Each one of those decisions served me well. So $8500 for the Imac Pro is cheap in comparison to what I spent in the past for tech.


I am sorry but if I bought that machine I would be taking it apart and fitting my own RAM.
The math they have used there is ridiculous

64GB = £780
128GB = £2,100

Last time I checked 64x2 was two times the price of 64GB, not 3 times :/
If I was even going to buy this I would wait for OWC to show me what they will offer for RAM and mods

Apple con when it comes to RAM costs

FYI: My main machine is a 2012 12-Core Mac Pro
And my slave is a i7 ASUS PC running macOS 10.12.6 (hackintosh)
Have also ran this as a Windows 10 slave in the past and worked solid


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 15, 2017)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I am sorry but if I bought that machine I would be taking it apart and fitting my own RAM.



The problem is, you would void the warranty. Not something you want to do with that machine.


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## GdT (Dec 15, 2017)

rlw said:


> Just ordered 10 core, 1TB ssd with 128gb ram. 8.3 k out the door with Apple care and tax. May be sorry I didn’t go with more cores but decided that I need external disk array and was spenting all I needed to today.


I wish you well with you upgrade and I understand your reasonaing.
I doubt if the fan noise will be an issue as the processor etc is behind the screen, so I guess most of the fan noise is project backwards. So it depends what is behind it. If you hear the fan you could put a sheet of sound absorbant material at the back.
I would be interested to know how long it takes you to get all your software and samples over to the new machine.
I am thinking of upgrading next year and started evaluating all the stuff on my old Mac Pro to see what to take across.


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## lpuser (Dec 15, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> Very nice to be able to upgrade regularly.



Sure, but the Mac Pro is coming and with a PC, one is stuck with Windows. W10 is in my opinion the worst operating system available these days and I am saying this as somebody who is working with PCs since the release of MS-DOS. No way I would ever exchange the Mac in the studio for any Windows-PC. And regarding pricing: My 2009 Mac Pro can still be sold for around 900+ EUR, but for an 8 year old PCs you won't find many prospects even in the 100 EUR range.


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## gsilbers (Dec 15, 2017)

seclusion3 said:


> For [email protected] n giggles it will be fun to spec out the top of the line machine and see what it comes out too.. My guess, $5k base, 128 ram $3k, 4 TB ssd $2.5k, 18 Core, $4k.
> Just guessing, likely a $15k machine. That’s in US funds, in Canada I guess it’ll be more like $20k...
> All said in done though, they look really slick beast. I’m also curious how it applies to audio.
> My 2017 i7 iMac is enough for what I use in Logic Pro, fans only kick in if I am coverting in handbrake, I don’t hear the fans working in Logic.
> ...



A lot of times the pc equivalent is similar priced and macs are just a bit pricier but not that much. The custom design and software integration will increase the price. It’s 128gb and 18 Corea in one screen. That’s a lot of power. 

As for the upgrade, yes people can upgrade but only through apple or authorized dealers. I just read it somewhere. I’m sure folks will hack it and use their own 128gb of generic ram.


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## Damarus (Dec 15, 2017)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I am sorry but if I bought that machine I would be taking it apart and fitting my own RAM.



Lol dont know if you've ever seen an iMac taken apart. You go in from the front, not that back.

This thread gives me anxiety. Any top end iMac or mac pro is going to do more than fine..

Someone please show me a screenshot where you are utilizing more than 64GB of ram in a project, or even close to it. I need to see.


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## gsilbers (Dec 15, 2017)

Oh btw, one of those iMac w hi ghz 8 or 16 Cores w 128gb ram is pretty much one of those mega setups at remote control, like junkie xls and others. Ok just one screen. (Plus some massive external storage)


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## Symfoniq (Dec 15, 2017)

Damarus said:


> Lol dont know if you've ever seen an iMac taken apart. You go in from the front, not that back.
> 
> This thread gives me anxiety. Any top end iMac or mac pro is going to do more than fine..
> 
> Someone please show me a screenshot where you are utilizing more than 64GB of ram in a project, or even close to it. I need to see.



According to VSL, the full Synchron Strings is going to use around 64 GB of RAM all by itself.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 15, 2017)

lpuser said:


> My 2009 Mac Pro can still be sold for around 900+ EUR



I'm not sure if the iMac Pros will last that many years. My guess is the heating will kill these machines shortly after the warranty is expired.


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## Damarus (Dec 15, 2017)

Symfoniq said:


> According to VSL, the full Synchron Strings is going to use around 64 GB of RAM all by itself.



In theory yes, but I would love to see it in a project.

A good SSD can run samples 10x faster than a HDD can, which alleviates the need for your system to store your entire String library in RAM when you are only using a Legato patch. Also you can use features of Kontakt to save RAM.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 15, 2017)

Damarus said:


> Someone please show me a screenshot where you are utilizing more than 64GB of ram in a project, or even close to it. I need to see.



I know several composers that utilize 64GB+....even 128+. They don't use that much in a single cue, but it's the templates that gobble up the Ram. I personally hate purging, disabling, and freezing tracks....and I cringe at the thought of using keyswitches.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 15, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> The problem is, you would void the warranty. Not something you want to do with that machine.


Ahh I know Wolfie

After thought though, I concluded I would have a registered company do it for me.
But my point is that the prices for the RAM are ridiculous and that is not justified in any technical argument.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 15, 2017)

Damarus said:


> Lol dont know if you've ever seen an iMac taken apart. You go in from the front, not that back.
> 
> This thread gives me anxiety. Any top end iMac or mac pro is going to do more than fine..
> 
> Someone please show me a screenshot where you are utilizing more than 64GB of ram in a project, or even close to it. I need to see.


Yes I have seen them taken apart and I have the confidence to take a machine apart because hardware has been my passion forever.

Also my friend took apart his iMac just last year and talked me through the teardown process


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## rlw (Dec 15, 2017)

Damarus said:


> Lol dont know if you've ever seen an iMac taken apart. You go in from the front, not that back.
> 
> This thread gives me anxiety. Any top end iMac or mac pro is going to do more
> Someone please show me a screenshot where you are utilizing more than 64GB of ram in a project, or even close to it. I need to see.


I have used more than 64gb if Ram numerous times. That’s why I wanted 128GB of ram. My task manager often pegged at 99% memory used. Froze up PC numerous times. Long works, 10 mins plus and then some hungry synths. Spitfires Photus has memory leak on PC in VEP for sure. Some developers don’t understand windows and then Windows 10 forces an update every week that I dislike. Should have used Windows 7. To many obstacles for me on Windows that I don’t want to loose time on . I have much writing to do and do not have time to be limited by memory or developers prejudice. Work flow is a must for me. I understand when price is an obstacle. I have been there And had to work thru the limitations and then work to make music. When i have the ability or time to remove those obstacles then I choose to remove them. The new iMac will serve many very well, but 64 GB was a limit I did not want to risk. I did not want to wait for new Mac Pro release. If it comes out in January or February I may have been better served to wait. But I think I will be happy with my decision as long as fan noise doesn’t cripple me. (When I get back off the road I will send you a screenshot of the task managers for those that need proof of using up the ram.


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## rlw (Dec 15, 2017)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Yes I have seen them taken apart and I have the confidence to take a machine apart because hardware has been my passion forever.
> 
> Also my friend took apart his iMac just last year and talked me through the teardown process


I have seen videos on how to open up an iMac. Your reasoning is sound if you
Don’t void the warranty. My hope is that in 3 years when I wished
I had more cores, that maybe OWC or someone will be able to upgrade the processor. Currently I have only seen hard drives and memory upgraded on the iMac.


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## mc_deli (Dec 15, 2017)

Living Fossil said:


> Machines, that are not upgradable in any sense are a total sin against environment protection. Such devices should simply be forbidden.


THIS


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## lpuser (Dec 15, 2017)

Living Fossil said:


> I'm not sure if the iMac Pros will last that many years. My guess is the heating will kill these machines shortly after the warranty is expired.



Oh dear, I am very sorry to read this. To be honest, this is way I refrain from buying an "all-in-one" computer. Always fear that the display or similar might be broken and given the fact that the iMac is not user-serviceable is kind of a no-go. However, I have high hopes regarding the new (modular) Mac Pro.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 15, 2017)

This is also a very good piece of Knowledge that Apple might have been more transparent with at the announcement of it coming this year:

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/12/15/bricked-mac-pro-how-to-restore/

Spoiler: You will need a second Mac and Apple Configurator 2 installed.


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## George Bellas (Dec 15, 2017)

No sales tax on iMac Pro orders shipped outside NY and NJ at Adorama and B&H Video. Adorama also offers 12-Months no interest financing.

iMac Pro at Adorama

iMac Pro at B7H Video


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 15, 2017)

Living Fossil said:


> I'm not sure if the iMac Pros will last that many years. My guess is the heating will kill these machines shortly after the warranty is expired.



Why not? I have never personally heard of an iMac dying from heat issues in the past five years.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 15, 2017)

@Wolfie2112 : a friend of mine has an iMac in his office that died shortly after the 3 year period some weeks ago. (i have to ask him though, if he could get it repaired in the meantime). However, his machine had no serious duties to do. So, the risk with damages due to a long time exposure to higher temperatures when a machine is used at higher CPU load, is probably much bigger.

And (as previously written) my MBP 2011 had the mainboard changed 4 times due to the fact that apple used inferior quality graphic chips during that time.
The first 3 times were covered by Apple Care. However, after the second crash they tried to refuse to change it, saying that there is no evidence that the graphic chip is really broken, although they knew exactly that it was. Posting some photos of the glitch in an apple user forum fortunately changed their minds.
(the problem usually happened when the machine had CPU heavy duties to do).
For the 4th change, i had to pay.


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## InLight-Tone (Dec 15, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> On my PC I've added about 4 hard drives, doubled the RAM, changed graphics cards multiple times, etc. I plan on adding a new PCI card to support another M2 SSD, as well as swapping the processor. Plus I've been able to overclock and get a full +1GHZ out of the thing. Very nice to be able to upgrade regularly.


And upgrade for 1/4 the price at that, IF you can even upgrade the Mac without destroying it. I've tried the operating system and while I like it's built on top of Unix, still not worth it by any means...


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## Andrew Aversa (Dec 15, 2017)

lpuser said:


> Sure, but the Mac Pro is coming and with a PC, one is stuck with Windows. W10 is in my opinion the worst operating system available these days and I am saying this as somebody who is working with PCs since the release of MS-DOS. No way I would ever exchange the Mac in the studio for any Windows-PC. And regarding pricing: My 2009 Mac Pro can still be sold for around 900+ EUR, but for an 8 year old PCs you won't find many prospects even in the 100 EUR range.



Choice of OS is of course subjective. I've owned PCs and Macs and I feel exactly the opposite. I cannot stand using OSX. Windows 10 I feel is the BEST Windows in years. I can't remember the last time I saw a bluescreen on this machine and performance has never been better. It just works 



gsilbers said:


> A lot of times the pc equivalent is similar priced and macs are just a bit pricier but not that much. The custom design and software integration will increase the price. It’s 128gb and 18 Corea in one screen. That’s a lot of power.



The new iMac Pros, screen included, are priced at a $2000-3000 premium over an equivalent PC with an equivalent quality monitor, depending on the iMac configuration. If you love OSX / Logic and you feel that premium is worth it, that's fine. But it's worth knowing what that premium is. 

Think of it this way. For the price of the top-spec iMac Pro you could not only get an equivalent-spec PC system in every way (with monitor) but an incredible 2nd machine as well for VE Pro. Or even 2 extra machines.


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## lpuser (Dec 16, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> I can't remember the last time I saw a bluescreen on this machine and performance has never been better. It just works



It is great that your personal experience is positive 
Being a person whose day-time job is working with Windows PC since MS-DOS, I can tell from the number of support calls and the feedback from international developers we partner with, that there was never a Windows operating system in the past, which has caused so many issues.

Sure one can buy more than 1 PC for the price of the Mac, but then again, having serviced and built a large number of PCs myself, there is a huge difference when you look at the inside. The old Mac Pro towers are superior in terms of build quality and engineering, that it´s hard not to understand why they cost more.

That´s exactly why I am looking forward to the upcoming Mac Pro, which hopefully is expandable again. The iMac - on the other hand - is certainly something different and to be honest, I would not want to buy one because I am not into the "all-in-one" concept.


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## seclusion3 (Dec 16, 2017)

Also adding these for external drives
https://blog.macsales.com/43169-owc...2018?utm_source=xlr8yourmac&APC=XLR8YourMac13
I wonder if the 4 USB-C’s run independent, Mac bandwidth?
Wow


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## Andrew Aversa (Dec 16, 2017)

lpuser said:


> Sure one can buy more than 1 PC for the price of the Mac, but then again, having serviced and built a large number of PCs myself, there is a huge difference when you look at the inside. The old Mac Pro towers are superior in terms of build quality and engineering, that it´s hard not to understand why they cost more.
> 
> That´s exactly why I am looking forward to the upcoming Mac Pro, which hopefully is expandable again. The iMac - on the other hand - is certainly something different and to be honest, I would not want to buy one because I am not into the "all-in-one" concept.



By build quality do you mean the CPU, GPU, RAM, etc? Because these parts can be sourced identically on PC. You can get even higher-end components on PC, in fact (such as platinum-level PSU, more powerful video cards..)

Just about every Mac of the last few years has had worse thermals than PC, measurably so... and I would argue that a system that cannot be easily updated is always worse (from a build perspective) than one that CAN be easily updated.

If you mean the industrial design that's one thing, but it's certainly not better internals if for no other reason than the poor cooling setup.


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## milesito (Dec 16, 2017)

Painfully and impatiently waiting for the next generation Mac Pro which I would hope is more upgradeable and flexible in form factor....


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## lpuser (Dec 17, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> If you mean the industrial design that's one thing, but it's certainly not better internals if for no other reason than the poor cooling setup.



It is great that you are happy with you PCs. For me I can count well over 33 years building, configuring and selling PCs. Besides this, I was fortunate enough to also have experience with Mac since the first Macintosh Classic. 

When I refer to build-quality, there is everything included and to me, the sum of the parts (macOS, drivers, quality, design, apps) is an important factor for me. Like I said, I am happy that you are satisfied with what you have, but as somebody who knows the PC world since a very long time, I would never revert back when it comes to making music or cutting video - and certainly never with W10.


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## FriFlo (Dec 17, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> Choice of OS is of course subjective. I've owned PCs and Macs and I feel exactly the opposite. I cannot stand using OSX. Windows 10 I feel is the BEST Windows in years. I can't remember the last time I saw a bluescreen on this machine and performance has never been better. It just works


And this is the thing where I have to take on the other hat ... is it really? I had the highest hopes when the head of Windows 10 media development at Microsoft (can't remember his name, sorry ...) was talking about the future of midi in Windows and interesting ideas like integrating RTP midi (which is part of Mac OS since more than 10 years). I even wrote an email to him and was thrilled that he personally replied. Unfortunately, he said they had different priorities ATM, which meant I guess trying to catch up with iOS which is almost impossible at this point, I am afraid ... then there is that huge problem of windows 10 doing updates without your consent and all the possible workarounds could be destroyed by any update. Further, I had problems like windows audio engine producing problems with playback when you dare opening a YouTube video during Sibelius is running. Not to speak about the system preferences being buried deeply that you have problems finding them ... I mean, it would be great if they would have simplified them, but it is bad to now have two different preferences but in the easier version you often don't find what you are looking for ... I could go on like that ...
No, MS did a pretty miserable job at making Windows 10 great compared to Mac OS. And I have used both OS equally for along time. I am sure there are workarounds for every problem I described. But personally, I don't want to have to tweak my OS and keep installing tools and drivers until it eventually does behave (or crash due to one of the tools being installed). And I don't want to navigate though a mess of underequipped new menues before I find out that what I am looking for can only be accessed via old structures that are buried somewhere deeply ...
If Windows would indeed develop to an equally well designed OS and they would in some cases at least listen to their customers (e.g. wanting a easy option to be asked for Windows updates), I would have left Apple 5 years ago! In fact, I worked on Windows for 2 years before I got an older Mac Pro used, because I realised that there were so many annoying things that distracted me from working. As soon as you open Cubase, sure! There's not much of a difference (apart from the terrible video engine which Steinberg still seems to have problems with 2 years after QuickTime dropped PC support). But I also want the OS to play nice and this hardly seems to be the case to me with Windows 10. I am not saying Mac OS is all great, it sure isn't and there would also be quite a lot of things I would hope for ... but it is pretty easier to work with and produces less erratic behaviour than Windows 10 for sure.


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## FriFlo (Dec 17, 2017)

To bring both sides of the argument to peace: both Microsoft and Apple have messed up in the past. if Apple will build a great Mac Pro which will not maneuver them into a thermal design corner (using their own words), be user upgradable and remain in a sensible spot price wise (it can cost alittle more IMO, but not in the iMac pro range), I will buy it. If Microsoft on the other hand will clean up the mess of what they call an OS, I will change to Windows.
I honestly hope, both will be the case, as then we all have the choice! :-D But I am afraid both will not be the case which will leave us only the choice between two inferior designs. Microsoft has already started learning from Apples success in building more closed systems, charging premium prices (like their tablet range of products) and Apple has not really proven they had learned from their mistakes with the latest Mac. I would love to sound more optimistic, but I must confess, I can not ... same goes with sequencer software, where I cannot find the one company that does it all right. Which is why I will probably always stay with what I have. It is to much trouble to change your workflow and learn so many things from scratch only to find out that there are other problems coming with the new system ...


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## InLight-Tone (Dec 17, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> And this is the thing where I have to take on the other hat ... is it really? I had the highest hopes when the head of Windows 10 media development at Microsoft (can't remember his name, sorry ...) was talking about the future of midi in Windows and interesting ideas like integrating RTP midi (which is part of Mac OS since more than 10 years). I even wrote an email to him and was thrilled that he personally replied. Unfortunately, he said they had different priorities ATM, which meant I guess trying to catch up with iOS which is almost impossible at this point, I am afraid ... then there is that huge problem of windows 10 doing updates without your consent and all the possible workarounds could be destroyed by any update. Further, I had problems like windows audio engine producing problems with playback when you dare opening a YouTube video during Sibelius is running. Not to speak about the system preferences being buried deeply that you have problems finding them ... I mean, it would be great if they would have simplified them, but it is bad to now have two different preferences but in the easier version you often don't find what you are looking for ... I could go on like that ...
> No, MS did a pretty miserable job at making Windows 10 great compared to Mac OS. And I have used both OS equally for along time. I am sure there are workarounds for every problem I described. But personally, I don't want to have to tweak my OS and keep installing tools and drivers until it eventually does behave (or crash due to one of the tools being installed). And I don't want to navigate though a mess of underequipped new menues before I find out that what I am looking for can only be accessed via old structures that are buried somewhere deeply ...
> If Windows would indeed develop to an equally well designed OS and they would in some cases at least listen to their customers (e.g. wanting a easy option to be asked for Windows updates), I would have left Apple 5 years ago! In fact, I worked on Windows for 2 years before I got an older Mac Pro used, because I realised that there were so many annoying things that distracted me from working. As soon as you open Cubase, sure! There's not much of a difference (apart from the terrible video engine which Steinberg still seems to have problems with 2 years after QuickTime dropped PC support). But I also want the OS to play nice and this hardly seems to be the case to me with Windows 10. I am not saying Mac OS is all great, it sure isn't and there would also be quite a lot of things I would hope for ... but it is pretty easier to work with and produces less erratic behaviour than Windows 10 for sure.


This is utterly biased poppycock...


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## FriFlo (Dec 17, 2017)

InLight-Tone said:


> This is utterly biased poppycock...


Remarkable, how you call something biased by answering with a little defamatory one-liner. That seems like bias to me, while I made perfectly clear that I see faults with both Apple and MS ... I would have expected more communication skill from a developer to be honest. Glad I did not buy any of your libraries!


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## InLight-Tone (Dec 17, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> Remarkable, how you call something biased by answering with a little defamatory one-liner. That seems like bias to me, while I made perfectly clear that I see faults with both Apple and MS ... I would have expected more communication skill from a developer to be honest. Glad I did not buy any of your libraries!


I'm not a developer, a mere lowly user. I read your post and @lpuser and my brain was tired so rather than write a detailed response and waste time, I did the one-liner. I too have spent most of my adult Life with computers starting with the Amiga 500, doing IT work for 15 years etc. Spent a ton of time in Linux fighting a personal war with Microsoft that wore me out. Microsoft isn't perfect and the disaster that was Windows 8, well let's just forget that, but Windows 10 is their finest offering yet in my opinion. Apple/Mac is nice is some respects, but I can build 4 equivalent machines for the price of one, and be able to swap parts at will if I so choose. I mostly use Adobe Creative Cloud & Cubase in my creative work so I'm machine agnostic. Logic or Final Cut is not worth the price of admission to me, but hey whatever gets your creative juices flowing, more power to ya...


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## synthpunk (Dec 17, 2017)

I wonder how long until the Hackintosh guys will be able to build a 18 core clone if at all?


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## GdT (Dec 18, 2017)

Why has this thread about a new Mac model become a Mac versus Windows debate?


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## Ashermusic (Dec 18, 2017)

GdT said:


> Why has this thread about a new Mac model become a Mac versus Windows debate?



Because it is what chowderheads do


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## Soundhound (Dec 18, 2017)

Hey, I love chowder.


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## synthpunk (Dec 18, 2017)

Pissing contest.









Ashermusic said:


> Because it is what chowderheads do


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## fiestared (Dec 18, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> To bring both sides of the argument to peace: both Microsoft and Apple have messed up in the past. if Apple will build a great Mac Pro which will not maneuver them into a thermal design corner (using their own words), be user upgradable and remain in a sensible spot price wise (it can cost alittle more IMO, but not in the iMac pro range), I will buy it. If Microsoft on the other hand will clean up the mess of what they call an OS, I will change to Windows.
> I honestly hope, both will be the case, as then we all have the choice! :-D But I am afraid both will not be the case which will leave us only the choice between two inferior designs. Microsoft has already started learning from Apples success in building more closed systems, charging premium prices (like their tablet range of products) and Apple has not really proven they had learned from their mistakes with the latest Mac. I would love to sound more optimistic, but I must confess, I can not ... same goes with sequencer software, where I cannot find the one company that does it all right. Which is why I will probably always stay with what I have. It is to much trouble to change your workflow and learn so many things from scratch only to find out that there are other problems coming with the new system ...


You said it ! 100% agree with you... Regarding apple, I feel like I'm orphan, as a lot of you here, I'm with them from the very beginning (Apple IIe, Mac 128, 512,Plus, Se, FX etc...) I/We don't interest them anymore(I've bought one iPhone and I'll never do it again, I hate their system) So what to do ? I had a hackintosh, I had no prob, but impossible to resell, it's a one shot buy...


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## FriFlo (Dec 18, 2017)

InLight-Tone said:


> I'm not a developer, a mere lowly user. .


 I must have confused your profile with one by a sample library developer, sorry. This kind of behaviour would have been even more disturbing by a developer, but I still don't like it from normal forum members. You should not just dismiss personal experiences by others with a one-liner like that. This comes forward as aggressive. Not in such a dose as to report it, but still ... I agree with you that Windows 10 is way better than Windows 8. But there is no way of denying that the auto update is just a PITA for professional users. Also, the way they have kept the old user prefereneces in place but hiding them seems like a half baked cake to me. All the other things might be subjective and: Yes! My experienc of the audio engine performing unreliable with multiple programs running stems from my time of using Windows 8. Maybe they have improved that now. The other stuff might be subjective and I confess Apple has not done a lot to improve midi and audio (still no AU v2?) lately. It just puzzles me, why they wouldn't integrate some of these features like creating virtual midi ports and RTP midi, while Apple has done that more than a decade ago. Not every one might need that kind of stuff, but to me it is important as I want such basic stuff in a reliable way without the need of third party software integrated into the OS.


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## EvilDragon (Dec 18, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> But there is no way of denying that the auto update is just a PITA for professional users.



So professional users shouldn't be using the Home version, they should be using the Pro version, where they can delay feature updates up to a year, and even move to a slower release channel, which makes it update EVEN LESS (other than security updates, which are always welcome).


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## FriFlo (Dec 18, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> So professional users shouldn't be using the Home version, they should be using the Pro version, where they can delay feature updates up to a year, and even move to a slower release channel, which makes it update EVEN LESS (other than security updates, which are always welcome).


I do use the pro version, but I don't find it very professional to not have complete control over when I want to update.


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## EvilDragon (Dec 18, 2017)

Then you set your network connection to metered, and no feature updates, ever. Or, when you want it, uncheck metered connection. (Tweak exists so that you can even do this for LAN connections.)


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## FriFlo (Dec 18, 2017)

Thanks for trying to help and this might indeed help me at some point. But my point is: why not simply have an option ask user for update options? It seems to me MS just wants to get their users to always use the latest updates. Further, when I upgraded to Windows 10, I followed several guidelines to stop auto updates. Yet, after some update I did these modifications got reset to default. This resulted in my Cubase project to crash several time, just because Windows decided to shut down with VEpro running to perform an update. This seemed really unacceptable to me ... not that Mac OS is perfect in that regard! I also find it annoying to be forced to delay the update every day, as long as I am on a project. But it is way better than what I am left with in Windows 10. There might be better options now, as you said. I just don't know, because I simply disable the internet connection on the slave PCs which is the best way of preventing any shit happening. This just wouldn't work on the main machine, as I obviously rely on the web ...
Any way, there certainly always is a workaround for every annoying thing in Windows! I just find less of these on Mac OS, which is of course just my perspective (and other Apple users'). As I said, I will keep watching who messes up more or less and will make my next purchase decision based on that. I might end up with a new Windows PC next year ... last time I did, it ended being a slave, though ...


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## InLight-Tone (Dec 18, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> I must have confused your profile with one by a sample library developer, sorry. This kind of behaviour would have been even more disturbing by a developer, but I still don't like it from normal forum members. You should not just dismiss personal experiences by others with a one-liner like that. This comes forward as aggressive. Not in such a dose as to report it, but still ... I agree with you that Windows 10 is way better than Windows 8. But there is no way of denying that the auto update is just a PITA for professional users. Also, the way they have kept the old user prefereneces in place but hiding them seems like a half baked cake to me. All the other things might be subjective and: Yes! My experienc of the audio engine performing unreliable with multiple programs running stems from my time of using Windows 8. Maybe they have improved that now. The other stuff might be subjective and I confess Apple has not done a lot to improve midi and audio (still no AU v2?) lately. It just puzzles me, why they wouldn't integrate some of these features like creating virtual midi ports and RTP midi, while Apple has done that more than a decade ago. Not every one might need that kind of stuff, but to me it is important as I want such basic stuff in a reliable way without the need of third party software integrated into the OS.


Yes I can be aggressive on the net as I have to slog around in YouTube comments for a channel I run and sometimes even dip into Fox News comments to stir up the hornets nest, so I'm a bit ruff around the edges, but because of these experiences, for me, I've got thick skin. Not meaning to hurt you in any way, so if I did, my apologies...


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 19, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> point. But my point is: why not simply have an option ask user for update options?



This is exactly why I've left my slave PC on Win 7 Pro. It's crazy that you don't have this option in Win 10.


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