# Whats best thick-sounding Choir library for dramatic (& what will the focus of Spitfire's choir be)?



## Bansaw (Jun 24, 2018)

I've been trying to save my pennies up for a choir library, but there are a few to choose from.
What's your opinion on the best choir library, a thick sounding one, for dramatic cinematic-orchestral (Lord of the Rings type) ? I guess not just thickness is a factor, but how well its programmed in its phrasing engine.

And also, I've been holding off waiting for the Spitfire Whittaker offering, but thats been taking forever, and I wonder what its focus will be? It looks like a library targeted to a more intimate sound and might not be for me, although thats a guess on my part...


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## Maxime Luft (Jun 24, 2018)

Although I don't have it yet, I heard lots of good comments about this one:

https://www.strezov-sampling.com/products/view/WOTAN-Male-Choir.html
Plus they say: "Inspired by the famous Lord of the Rings Moria men choir sound"



Also from them: Freyja (female choir) and Arva (children choir)


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## SoundChris (Jun 24, 2018)

Strezov Wotan was created to nail the basso profundo sound of Lord of the rings. It has a very big sound and a high dynamic range. So you also can write very intimate and sensual stuff on the on hand and very brutal, loud and powerfull stuff on the other hand. Also the range is extreme. I haven´t heared any library where the basses can go so darn deep and on the other hand the tenors can get really high. It fits perfect with Freyja and Arva.

If you want a very powerful cinematic choir I stil would go for Storm Chor I or Storm Choir II (IMO the strongest aspect of freyja and Wotan is the more lyrical side of the library while Storm Choir has the power that you need for the epic stuff. They are working on *Storm Choir III* which will - as far as I know - also have the engine that the newer strezov choir libraries have got). When it comes to Storm Choir I have to admitt, that I use SC I far more often than SC II. So dont unterestimate the first installment. It is stil very good sounding and works well straight out of the box without much editing.

IMO there are no better solutions availiable than the Strezov Choirs these days. I also like Fluffy´s Dominus a lot for sacred music - if that is what you are looking for.


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## bap_la_so_1 (Jun 24, 2018)

Storm choirs is your best bet


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## fretti (Jun 24, 2018)

Maxime Luft said:


> Although I don't have it yet, I heard lots of good comments about this one:
> 
> https://www.strezov-sampling.com/products/view/WOTAN-Male-Choir.html
> Plus they say: "Inspired by the famous Lord of the Rings Moria men choir sound"
> ...



+1, even though I don't have it, all demos and walkthroughs sound just incredible!



Bansaw said:


> And also, I've been holding off waiting for the Spitfire Whittaker offering, but thats been taking forever, and I wonder what its focus will be? It looks like a library targeted to a more intimate sound and might not be for me, although thats a guess on my part...


Hard to say, no substantial hints from them yet...
Don't know the exact size (from a photo I've seen I think the Whitacre choir is around ~15-20 men and ~15-20 women?!). So I think "more intimate sound" is accurate. 
Will be recorded at AIR Studios, wich is for many (often) a big plus.

While Lotr was in parts also recorded at AIR (next to many other big scoring Studios/Stages due to massive orchestra sizes) I don't know what parts of the orchestra/choirs/soloists were recorded there.
Though it's stated that they used a "large male choir" a "large mixed choir" (and a "large boy choir"); so the upcoming Spitfire library will probably not serve that "genre"/kind of music style. 

For that (next to Strezov) I think 8Dios choir libraries are also worth a look. Not cheap, but I mostly read good comments about them, and know that e.g. JunkieXL has and uses (at least some) of their Choir VI's. (Lacrimosa for example with their 200 singers), don't have a choir from them though...

Hope that helps


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2018)

Very powerful cinematic choir: *Ark 1* all day money (though not entirely dissimilar results can be had with EW SCP...it's just that with Ark 1 you get it out of the box).


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Jun 24, 2018)

Metropolis Ark I has a great choir!


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## Tekkera (Jun 24, 2018)

Wotan/Freyja will probably be the most versatile. Storm Choir 2 is pretty good but it's not as versatile, I personally love it's tone more than any other choir.


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## SillyMidOn (Jun 24, 2018)

Metropolis Ark 1 choir without a shadow of a doubt.


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## Bansaw (Jun 24, 2018)

Do Orchestral Tools (Ark 1) and Strezov have sales, e.g. 30% for Black Friday ?
I am wondering if the phrase builder on Ark 1 how that compares to Storm Choir ?


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## kimarnesen (Jun 24, 2018)

Are you looking for the typical staccato syllables or more legato soaring lines?


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## fretti (Jun 24, 2018)

Bansaw said:


> Do Orchestral Tools (Ark 1) and Strezov have sales, e.g. 30% for Black Friday ?


Orchestral Tools says they don't, but in another thread someone pointed out a sale last November (I think it was 30% no guaranties though).
Strezov "just" had a sale before they changed currencies from $ to € with 30%
+they had a choir sale till the end of march after their updates at 30%
https://www.strezov-sampling.com/article/NGCSUpdate.html
How regular these sales are for Strezov I can't say, don't know/have an eye on the company long enough


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## fretti (Jun 24, 2018)

Bansaw said:


> I am wondering if the phrase builder on Ark 1 how that compares to Storm Choir ?


Maybe I missed something in my Ark1 copy, but afaik they don't have a phrase builder. 
As the choir here is "just" an addition and not the sole purpose of the library
Only:
VIKTORIA CHOIR (HIGH)
Sustains 
Legato 
Staccato Short - 10 Syllables 
Marcato Short - 5 Syllables
Marcato Long - 5 Syllables 
Glissandi & FX

AARAUER CHOIR (LOW)
Sustains 
Legato 
Staccato Short - 10 Syllables 
Marcato Short - 5 Syllables 
Marcato Long - 5 Syllables 
Glissandi & FX

Not sure though if the syllables can be controlled in some way tbh; for me it was always enough that they can "shout" something different with every key I pressed in the background


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## NoamL (Jun 24, 2018)

@Bansaw Wotan by @Strezov is great... I also encourage you to try *Oceania* by @Jasper Blunk .

Here is a demo I made for you (note, I am not affiliated with Performance Samples)



I find the library very satisfying and realistic for these kind of "big statements." It's super easy to program.

The dynamic range goes from a strong mezzo-forte to _fff_. There are no soft and tender samples here, so you need some other library to perform that kind of material. Instead of a word-builder, the library automatically cycles through a few syllables. Since the syllables were actually recorded one after another, it really adds to the realism. There is a keyswitch system that allows you to select syllables instead of automatically cycling through them (but there are only 7 or 8 syllables, it's not a huge selection). Ultimately, I think the realism and musical energy of this choir is by far a better approach to sampling than most of the "word building" attempts I've heard, with few exceptions. Word building often sacrifices the energy & realism of the sound and still doesn't actually produce intelligible lyrics. 

If the LOTR sound is what you're after, I think your choices are this and Wotan. They both sound great. Wotan is a bit more expensive, doesn't have a female choir, but has true legato and wordbuilder, 3 mic positions, and a bunch of more deep-sampled features. Oceania is cheaper, has both men and women sections, has 2 mic positions, is focused on the highest dynamics, and is super user friendly.


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Jun 25, 2018)

fretti said:


> Orchestral Tools says they don't, but in another thread someone pointed out a sale last November (I think it was 30% no guaranties though).
> Strezov "just" had a sale before they changed currencies from $ to € with 30%
> +they had a choir sale till the end of march after their updates at 30%
> https://www.strezov-sampling.com/article/NGCSUpdate.html
> How regular these sales are for Strezov I can't say, don't know/have an eye on the company long enough



They do have a few sales a year (Strezov) but OT don't really (that I've seen) *except* for intro sales and when they are coming out with a new version of a product or crossgrade, etc.


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## Bansaw (Jun 25, 2018)

NoamL said:


> @Bansaw Wotan by @Strezov is great... I also encourage you to try *Oceania* by @Jasper Blunk .
> Here is a demo I made for you (note, I am not affiliated with Performance Samples)


@NoamL Demo's great - thanks a lot.
By the way, how did you do the percussive roll at 0:07? I assume its Timpani roll (what library)? The only one I have is the Kontakt library one which is limited. I tried to this kind of roll in my latest cinematic track on Soundcloud "Abandoned mineshaft" but think I could do better.


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## NoamL (Jun 25, 2018)

Hi @Bansaw, sure thing, just took me an hour... I listened to it again today and there's so many little details that need fixing!! 

At 0:07 that's the timpani in Hollywood Percussion Gold from EastWest. It's a pre-recorded crescendo which generally sounds more realistic than trying to perform the crescendo with individual hit samples (although, I did do that at 1:18). I listened to your track on SoundCloud, and IMO the problem is the repetition of the same sample. You could try to move half of the notes of your timpani roll to a new track, move them up 2 semitones, and then use a pitch shifter to shift -2 semitones. Thus the timpani roll would still be the same note, but using two samples. Google "Spitfire semitone trick" if I've explained it poorly


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## Kony (Jun 25, 2018)

+1 for Oceania, I think it's perfect for this type of large LOTR sound. It doesn't have a phrase builder though. Nice demo @NoamL


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## nas (Jun 25, 2018)

Although I do not own it, for the more legato passages with a very realistic and smooth phrasing engine I find the Dominus Choir to be the most natural and satisfying.


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## JoelS (Jun 25, 2018)

I agree with the Oceania praise. It ended up replacing the Ark marcato syllables as my 'dramatic nonsense choir.' I like the Oceania sound a bit better and think it has just a little more oomph to it at its most intense. Of course, you also get legatos (and the whole rest of the library) with Ark I... but Oceania is great at what it focuses on. 

Dominus is wonderful, but is really only for soft-to-middle intensity, and is a smaller ensemble. You can form quite a few Latin words with it. I'm hopeful they will record more syllables to expand on that. I'm very happy with the purchase. It'll get a lot of use in my music.


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## SoundChris (Jun 26, 2018)

Well while I find Berlin Winds / Brass / Ark cool, OT´s prices are far too expensive IMO compared to products of other developers in the same quality range - especially if you are living in the EU and have to pay about 20% tax in addition. OT didn´t have many (but actually they had some) sales but for the instruments that I stil wanted (Ark1, Brass, Winds) I will wait for sales even it takes years. And because I already got almost anything I need for my orchestral and choral arsenal in a comparable quality range I have got aeons of time to wait for them to have sales. So it is just a matter of time


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## Bansaw (Jun 27, 2018)

NoamL said:


> Hi @Bansaw "Spitfire semitone trick" if I've explained it poorly


 Thanks, I did become aware of Christian Henson's trick a couple of months ago.


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## JonAdamich (Jun 27, 2018)

Maybe I haven't done my research, but there really isn't much info on Spitfire's choir. Also, how long has it been since the recording video? A year and a half? I have an inkling that with the amazing new choirs out, they might be doing a totally revamp of their new choir to be a top player in the market. Especially seeing what strezov, 8dio and now audiobro have brought to the table.

What am I saying is absolutely hearsay and most likely wrong. Just a thought though. 

Either way, I can't wait to put it in my spitfire arsenal.


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## tim727 (Jul 16, 2018)

Bansaw said:


> Do Orchestral Tools (Ark 1) and Strezov have sales, e.g. 30% for Black Friday ?
> I am wondering if the phrase builder on Ark 1 how that compares to Storm Choir ?



Ark I does not have a phrase builder. It has legato, sustains, marcatos, and staccatos. For the marcatos and staccatos, there are something like 10 syllables/words available, and they play either in a fixed ordering ... or at random if you select the appropriate option in setup. This does end up limiting the flexibility of the choir, but the sound really is exceptional, so I think that where it lacks in flexibility it makes up in sheer sound quality. But it's up to you to decide if that tradeoff is worth it / suits your needs.

Also I can confirm that Orchestral Tools DOES have deals (and not just intro/crossgrade ones). They're not common, however last Black Friday they had something like 40% off Ark I and Ark 2. I would imagine that they'll do something similar this year, though of course there is no guarantee.

Edit: By the way I own both Wotan and Frejya and consider them quite excellent libraries. Oddly I seem to actually get more use out of Wotan, despite the fact that the sound in Frejya is objectively better. Wotan is great for providing a nice, deep underbelly to a mix. I love using them as somewhat distant/ethereal background singers.


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## Bansaw (Jul 16, 2018)

tim727 said:


> Edit: By the way I own both Wotan and Frejya and consider them quite excellent libraries. Oddly I seem to actually get more use out of Wotan, despite the fact that the sound in Frejya is objectively better. Wotan is great for providing a nice, deep underbelly to a mix. I love using them as somewhat distant/ethereal background singers.


Apparently *Storm Choir 3* is in the works, but the developer is being coy about it. Do you have an opinion on this, and Storm in general? Wonder if its worth waiting for.


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## tim727 (Jul 16, 2018)

Bansaw said:


> Apparently *Storm Choir 3* is in the works, but the developer is being coy about it. Do you have an opinion on this, and Storm in general? Wonder if its worth waiting for.



I don't own any of the Storm Choir libs sadly. That being said I do know that following: (1) They tend to be very highly regarded so my guess is that Storm Choir 3 will be a very good library, and (2) Strezov is said to be including the same "syllabuilder" engine that was used in Freyja and Wotan in SC3. I imagine that they'd also include the other nice features from those other libraries such as polyphonic legato. That means that SC3 will likely have a leg up on much of the competition at least in *that* regard. 

It also of course depends on the sound you're looking for. Note that there is a reason why the same developer is producing Wotan, Freyja, Arva, and Storm Choir. That being, that these libraries don't have too much intersection in use. I believe that the SC series is specifically geared toward "epic", in your face, kind of music. I imagine it could also handle softer passages but my understanding is that that's not really its strength. Meanwhile, the opposite could probably be said of the triumvirate of Wotan, Freyja and Arva. On the whole they're more geared toward softer, ethereal stuff ... though it is possible for them to be used in a somewhat more "epic" fashion, particularly Wotan. It's just that it's not really their strength.

A couple more things to keep in mind: (1) The choir in Ark 1 may not be terribly comprehensive but it does sound excellent, so if you think you can get away with not having phrase builder type functionality and you see use in getting Ark 1 anyway (it's a truly exceptional lib) then going that route might be your best bang for your buck; (2) Last Black Friday Strezov had great bundle deals on all their choir libs. I imagine they'll do likewise this November.

If I could tell you one thing though ... it would be *not* to get Storm Choir I or II right now. I'm sure they're both great, but given that SC3 is coming up soon enough it just doesn't make too much sense IMO. I imagine SC3 will blow them out of the water.


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## AR (Jul 17, 2018)

I have many choirs old ones and new ones. And still, I'm coming back to Metropolis 1 and 2 + Sonokinetic (for effects).


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## AR (Jul 17, 2018)

Oh I also love Tropar for very low stuff and Shevannai for solo stuff


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## boxheadboy50 (Jul 18, 2018)

NoamL said:


> @Bansaw Wotan by @Strezov is great... I also encourage you to try *Oceania* by @Jasper Blunk .
> 
> Here is a demo I made for you (note, I am not affiliated with Performance Samples)
> 
> ...



Damn! This is great. What brass libraries did you use here? Hell, what strings are these? 
WHAT ARE ALL THE THINGS


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