# Gamechanging scores



## wonshu (Dec 12, 2009)

I'm looking for films and their music that were game changers, in other words films that changed the way a genre was scored and why and how they did that.

On my list are:

- Alien (synthetic soundscapes and orchestral music)

- Clockwork Orange (counterpointing violence with beauty, no original music though...)

What other films are there?

Best
Hans


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## Christian Marcussen (Dec 12, 2009)

I would nominate Backdraft. (helped define the Zimmer action sound)


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## Stephen Rees (Dec 12, 2009)

I nominate 'Star Wars' for the return of the majestic jaw droppingly beautiful heroic exciting orchestral action score in the late 70s, and then 'The Empire Strikes Back' for perhaps surpassing even on the greatness of Star Wars.

Also 'Forbidden Planet' for the (first?) all electronic score.


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## mf (Dec 12, 2009)

To me, film scoring is an eclectic domain by its nature - there seem to be as many styles as composers out there. 
That is perhaps because film composers apparently care more to meet the film makers' expectations and to serve the film at hand, rather than to follow what their peers did on other films.


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## JohnG (Dec 12, 2009)

"Planet of the Apes," (Jerry Goldsmith) for introducing forcefully to film music orchestral techniques that had been developed by 20th century composers in concert halls

"The Player" by Thomas Newman (actually, just about anything by Thomas Newman)


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## choc0thrax (Dec 12, 2009)

Crimson Tide (modern military sound).


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## lux (Dec 12, 2009)

i say Van Helsing and american beauty


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## lux (Dec 12, 2009)

and of course the matrix


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## dinerdog (Dec 12, 2009)

The game changers (for me) and the ones that made me want to become a film composer were 2 of Thomas Newman's early scores:

"The Man With One Red Shoe" & "Desperately Seeking Susan"

They blew my mind. Of course all his stuff does, but those were "whoa" >8o


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## theheresy (Dec 12, 2009)

How about the two David Cronenberg The Fly and Videodrome for Howard Shore's electronic movement shift ? ? ?


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## Christian Marcussen (Dec 12, 2009)

Lux. I'm curious about your choices. Care to elaborate? Van Helsing especially.


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## wonshu (Dec 12, 2009)

Just a quick note:

It's not so much about personal preference but more about what changed the way things are done.

I remember another one:

Moricone using guitars the way he did in the spaghetti westerns, that wasn't done before and changed the perception of film music even for the general movie going public.

That's the sort of score I was trying to get a good collection of.


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## Ranietz (Dec 12, 2009)

Easy Rider. First movie to use a lot of songs instead of film score. (correct me if I'm wrong on this one)

Ennio Morricone and his music for The good, the bad and the ugly, For a few dollars etc. He invented (?) a new sound for the western genre.

Blair Witch Project. Hand held camera = no music. Also happens in Cloverfield. I haven't seen any of the movies so I might be wrong on this one.

_Edit: wonshu beat me by 2 minutes on Morricone_


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## lux (Dec 12, 2009)

Christian Marcussen @ Sat Dec 12 said:


> Lux. I'm curious about your choices. Care to elaborate? Van Helsing especially.



Christian,

Well, i'm mostly taken to pick scores from successful movies for the reason that they are likely to make other directors looking around with an imitative approach. So theyre more supposed to become influencial and a standard for future times. 

I always considered Van Helsing sort of a milestone for more than one reason. First is that it was a radical change of line of one of my favourite (if not "my" favourite) and most successful composers, expecially famous for extremely sensitive and often very tastefully orchestrated scores. Silvestri is kind of a modern "golden age" composer to me, more than Williams (who directly refers to golden age composers musically). In my vision Van Helsing heavily conditioned all the trailer writing for the subsequent years so much, that stuff sounded like van helsing for ages, and still sounds that way. The fact movie was not memorable is unrelevant in my opinion. 

The Matrix carried a couple solutions that rapidely become a must, ostinatos, metals over deep low percussions and many more, abused for years to come. It was a fantastic score in my opinion expecially for the uncommon feel it had. I'm not surprised it has been once again released by a guy who demonstrated a great knowledge of the orchestra in other works like JP3 

American beauty is Newman with all conseguences in terms of influencial (deservely) choices. 

Of course thats just a short choice of titles, there are dozen ones, and just my own ideas of things, no matter for study at school.


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## Christian Marcussen (Dec 12, 2009)

Thanks Lux 

I would also mention The American President by Shaiman. It has since defined what US presidents sound like.


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## Ranietz (Dec 12, 2009)

I don't agree with Lux on all points on the Van Helsing score. A lot of the music is (in my opinion) built upon devices he had used before. Listen to The Mummy Returns and you'll find a lot of similarities. Obviously it's the same composer but still...

However I agree that Van Helsing gave new inspiration for the trailer genre. Transylvania 1887 from Van Helsing has been ripped of in numerous trailers.


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## lux (Dec 12, 2009)

Ranietz @ Sat Dec 12 said:


> I don't agree with Lux on all points on the Van Helsing score. A lot of the music is (in my opinion) built upon devices he had used before. Listen to The Mummy Returns and you'll find a lot of similarities. Obviously it's the same composer but still...
> 
> However I agree that Van Helsing gave new inspiration for the trailer genre. Transylvania 1887 from Van Helsing has been ripped of in numerous trailers.



i see your point, cant tell why but i'm more inclined to assign to Van Helsing the prize, first reason being the trailer thing ("numerous" trailers is a bit euphemistic, isnt it? ). Thats also because i sorta consider that recently trailers writing and score writing tend to often crossfade as a general sense.

Christian, i agree about the American President btw


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## David Story (Dec 12, 2009)

I agree with the above, great scores.

How about The Adventures of Robin Hood, Gone With the Wind, Psycho, Requiem for a Dream, Babel, The Bourne Identity. All influential, then and now.

What do you guys feel are the definitive scores of the 21st century? The "new sound".


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## midphase (Dec 12, 2009)

The two that come to mind are There Will Be Blood and Bourne Identity films (any of them). Also Danny Boyle films have a defined 21st century sound to them, like Sunshine and 28 Days Later.


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## dinerdog (Dec 12, 2009)

Even before Bourne, I would say Powell's "Face-Off" upped the ante for wall to wall action.


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## Ed (Dec 12, 2009)

dinerdog @ Sat Dec 12 said:


> Even before Bourne, I would say Powell's "Face-Off" upped the ante for wall to wall action.



But I think there is a question just how much input Zimmer had, as Powell might have been doing what Badelt did on Pirates 1, which is essentially just fill out Zimmers music suites to picture.


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## lux (Dec 12, 2009)

speaking about Powell, completely off-topic question: how do one knows who made the melodies in the co-written scores like Shrek or Chicken Run?


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## bryla (Dec 12, 2009)

It's not like one made melodies and the other made arrangements, they split the cues 50/50 - if that's what you're asking about. Still I don't know who made which cue.


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## lux (Dec 12, 2009)

well, the main themes are very important other than tell a lot about the composer who made them


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## choc0thrax (Dec 12, 2009)

Van Helsing?? WTF. 8)


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## RiffWraith (Dec 12, 2009)

If the original intent is to find out what people like, then it can be anything. If the original intent is to find out what "changed the industry and the way people write music and score", then there is:

"Star Wars" (as mentioned)
"Psycho" (Hermann)
"Black Rain" (Zim)

And you could probably throw a Goldsmith score or two in there as well.

Cheers/


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## wonshu (Dec 12, 2009)

RiffWraith @ Sat Dec 12 said:


> If the original intent is to find out what people like, then it can be anything. If the original intent is to find out what "changed the industry and the way people write music and score", then there is:



Thank you. Yes, that was the original idea!


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## lux (Dec 12, 2009)

choc0thrax @ Sat Dec 12 said:


> Van Helsing?? WTF. 8)



oh well, dont tell me....


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## kid-surf (Dec 13, 2009)

Trying to add something which hasn't been mentioned, as I agree with many of the noms:

Saw - finally music that was horrifying and brutal and ugly.


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## José Herring (Dec 13, 2009)

You could look at it two ways. What are the game changers or what established the games. Quite frankly all the game changers mentioned all have their roots in earlier scores that actually established the game early on.

"Star Wars" not a game changer. Wouldn't have existed without the game establisher of "Sea Wolf" :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-RPzAbW ... re=related (couldn't find sea wolf but found Sea Hawk which is close enough even though sea wolf is closer to star wars)

This for establishing the thriller sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz46qS38 ... re=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7sznnL0 ... re=related

Personally I think Thomas Newman was influenced a lot by this :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t98LWNwUhI

And I'd be remiss if I didn't included the early works of José J. Herring that forever changed the way the "B" erotic thriller was scored by replacing wah wah guitar with orchestra:


http://www.amazon.com/Extramarital/dp/B0029XBSAM
>8o


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## José Herring (Dec 13, 2009)

Few More:

Bringing the hip style to contemporary TV you have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcflCzZlLcQ

and this for influencing so much of Zimmers stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kghJGeMY ... re=related

Forever changed the summer blockbuster sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y78crvRirAI

This for bringing Harlem black street music to the hallowed halls of the mainstream cinema:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGnpJ_KdqZE

I could go on for days.

/\~O


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## JohnG (Dec 13, 2009)

maybe "most imitated" or "most desired by directors" would be a good way to narrow the question. It's a wonderful question, in my view, and fun to think about.

Anybody think "The Mission" by Morricone is one? I love it but I'm hard-pressed to think it fits this thread.

Not to slight "Extramarital" in any way.


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## José Herring (Dec 13, 2009)

JohnG @ Sun Dec 13 said:


> maybe "most imitated" or "most desired by directors" would be a good way to narrow the question. It's a wonderful question, in my view, and fun to think about.
> 
> Anybody think "The Mission" by Morricone is one? I love it but I'm hard-pressed to think it fits this thread.
> 
> Not to slight "Extramarital" in any way.



It's an interesting way to frame the question that will lead to another discussion. Back in the 90ies when I was getting my first films directors would look for scores from films that were similar to the one they were making. These days more often than not I find that directors try to get what they like and then want you to find a way to fit it in to their film. It's gotten very narcissistic lately. Anybody else experiencing this?

As far as slighting Extramarital I'll let the all star cast and the stunning imdb reviews speak for itself. :lol:


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## dadek (Dec 13, 2009)

Disney using Stravinsky in Fantasia may have opened some doors, or ears...


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## The_Dark_Knight (Dec 13, 2009)

Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon = Added "grace" and beauty to Kung Fu films along with more tribal and basic ethnic solo instrumentation. See the art of war on youtube...it's really amazing in the background...powerful.

Aeon Flux = This score was the first in a more fitting for directors needs approach to score. It's done really well though, however a lot of it is more fitting for visual listening.

CSI = Wherever there's someone performing scientific experiments in a laboratory, cool filter techno beats with piano are soon to follow.

Transformers = Added metal guitars to orchestral for sci-fi action films, I think this is catching on for that genre of film.

Vantage Point = The modern spy / thriller / suspense sound.

KPAX = Yup, still impressed by what happened here with granulation and fx work. Directors temp this stuff constantly.

Saturday Night Fever = Helped re-introduce the Song based score in Dance films.

Once Upon a Time in the West = EPIC Western standard set with this score.


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## choc0thrax (Dec 13, 2009)

The_Dark_Knight @ Mon Dec 14 said:


> Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon = Added "grace" and beauty to Kung Fu films along with more tribal and basic ethnic solo instrumentation. See the art of war on youtube...it's really amazing in the background...powerful.
> 
> Aeon Flux = This score was the first in a more fitting for directors needs approach to score. It's done really well though, however a lot of it is more fitting for visual listening.
> 
> ...



You forgot Van Helsing.


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## The_Dark_Knight (Dec 13, 2009)

No, I forgot:

Shaft = Stabs and Funk for Blacksploitation.

Batman 1 = Crazy manic orchestra for _comic hero _sounds. 

Chariots of Fire = Inspirational, uplifting...athletic pride genre.

Alexander Nevsky - The dark Russian, big choir and discordance of vintage warfare.


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## The_Dark_Knight (Dec 13, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqm-7fqZ ... C1&index=5


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## lux (Dec 13, 2009)

Did i mention Van Helsing?


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## scottbuckley (Dec 13, 2009)

lux @ Sun Dec 13 said:


> Christian Marcussen @ Sat Dec 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Lux. I'm curious about your choices. Care to elaborate? Van Helsing especially.
> ...



I actually agree... I think Davis' Matrix scores (especially Revolutions) are completely underrated. When I sat down and really listened to these scores - the use of complex rhythms and timings, and sheer abuse of the orchestra, I was blown away. 

It was big and epic, but in a non-conventional direction that had not been attempted before in film, IMO. Sure, there were some tragic tracks that paired Don with that guy from Juno Reactor that could have been better... but when Don actually was left alone the result was amazing.

-s


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