# Cinematic Studio Brass



## jononotbono (Dec 2, 2019)

I've been relooking at Cinematic Studio Brass. I have CS2, CSS and CSSS. The demos are creating a very dangerous situation for me and I'm trying desperately not to slip over and accidentally fall onto the buy button.

Are users loving this Brass library? I'm getting that "I need this in my life" vibe. 

Jono


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## jimjazzuk (Dec 2, 2019)

It's brilliant, just buy it


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## jononotbono (Dec 2, 2019)

Does it blend well with the Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra libraries? I guess what I’m asking (as all libraries can blend with the right production tricks) is, does it blend well with least amounts of faffing about?


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## Uiroo (Dec 2, 2019)

From what I have seen, it seems to be the favorite Brass Library for many. Plus the team behind it seems to be super nice and forthcoming, which I also experienced myself.
I'll probably buy it soon.

With regards to blending I asked a somewhat similar thing here, last post: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/brass-library-complementary-to-ssb.86819/#post-4459409


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## I like music (Dec 2, 2019)

Just buy it man. No need to do this dance... You know you need it.

Great library


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## jononotbono (Dec 2, 2019)

This place is like an Alcoholics Anonymous group but for samples.


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## TimCox (Dec 2, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> This place is like an Alcoholics Anonymous group but for samples.





I like music said:


> Just buy it man. No need to do this dance... You know you need it.



I don't know if you know what AA actually does


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## MisteR (Dec 2, 2019)

Yeah, the ability to take one midi performance and apply it to other instruments with consistency is a pretty big draw. The key velocity switching is also appealing to me. I also have the SF symphony and my finger has been hovering over the buy button today. How do you like the strings? And do you find they blend with SF?


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## NathanTiemeyer (Dec 2, 2019)

There's a lot to love about CSB. The solo horn is probably the best I've ever heard, I love the trombone/tuba shorts. The library overall has an incredible dynamic range. It's very versatile. It's probably not going to be the last brass library you'll ever buy, but there are definitely permanent spots in your template from this one!


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## Robert_G (Dec 2, 2019)

Loving it.


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## jononotbono (Dec 2, 2019)

TimCox said:


> I don't know if you know what AA actually does



It’s where everybody sits in a circle and all say they’ve stopped drinking but really everybody is nipping to the toilet to swig Vodka from bottles in Brown bags, in the breaks 😂


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 2, 2019)

TimCox said:


> I don't know if you know what AA actually does



That's the place where alcoholics hook up for sex.


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## Kony (Dec 2, 2019)

To those who have both CS2 and CSS - are you using CS2 much these days?


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## Michael Stibor (Dec 2, 2019)

I love CSB. It's a bit unrefined (I mean that in a good way), but also very 'big' sounding. It's like the perfect blend of vintage/modern. I have a hard time blending the mics to make them a little more intimate, but that's on me. Otherwise, it's really incredible.


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## pawelmorytko (Dec 2, 2019)

Kony said:


> To those who have both CS2 and CSS - are you using CS2 much these days?


would love to know as well, from the demos I think a prefer the sound of cs2, but only having css it's hard to know which one I'd prefer. It's mainly the room/tone of css that I sometimes wish was different, and the amount of vibrato on some legato transitions

On topic on CSB, I also struggle getting the right mic mix, and the right amount of reverb to get it to sit further in the mix and less in your face


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## Joël Dollié (Dec 2, 2019)

I personally don't really like the sound, brass needs a big room to have a nice tone. CSB looks very playable but it doesn't really have a great tone compared to other options out there. It just sounds a little bit honky and small, not enough air is being moved. It's fine for smaller sounding animation scoring maybe but I don't think it's a great option for big lush cinematic stuff. CSS, even though it's also a smaller room does blend way better with extra reverb. Brass is just more room dependant, mainly because it's so loud.


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## Noeticus (Dec 2, 2019)

AA = Articulations Anonymous.


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## Michael Stibor (Dec 2, 2019)

Joël Dollié said:


> I personally don't really like the sound, brass needs a big room to have a nice tone. CSB looks very playable but it doesn't really have a great tone compared to other options out there. It just sounds a little bit honky and small, not enough air is being moved. It's fine for smaller sounding animation scoring maybe but I don't think it's a great option for big lush cinematic stuff. CSS, even though it's also a smaller room does blend way better with extra reverb. Brass is just more room dependant, mainly because it's so loud.


Interesting. I personally can't get it to sound small enough! The last thing I would call CSB would be small sounding.


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## I like music (Dec 2, 2019)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Interesting. I personally can't get it to sound small enough! The last thing I would call CSB would be small sounding.



Was going to say the same. Feels big enough. I think I also see what Joel is saying, but only conceptually. I hear them as being big and bold, and decently airy. In fact, I need to sit them further back a bit since they do feel a bit too close.


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## Headlands (Dec 2, 2019)

I love it and use it often. It can sound pretty big and the dynamics and overall control are absolutely stellar. My main gripe is that it's noisy (tape/other noise, which is totally unnecessary in this day and age), which is a problem with all of CSS products -- I need to use Izotope to de-noise it when I export, especially because when you stack orchestral libraries the noise adds up like crazy. I still can't understand why this is happening in almost-2020, but somehow it is.


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## Joël Dollié (Dec 2, 2019)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Interesting. I personally can't get it to sound small enough! The last thing I would call CSB would be small sounding.



I find them to be in a bit of a weird middle ground, it's not band brass obviously but it will never sound as huge as some big sounding AAA hollywood movie brass (which other libraries from some other manufacturers can do). It's just the tonal quality and early reflections that's not quite there imho.


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## I like music (Dec 2, 2019)

Joël Dollié said:


> ù
> 
> 
> I find them to be in a bit of a weird middle ground, it's not band brass obviously but it will never sound as huge as some big sounding AAA hollywood movie brass (which other libraries from some other manufacturers can do). It's just the tonal quality and early reflections that's not quite there imho.



I see. Would you say Hollywood Brass is an example of that sound? I don't use HWB anymore, but I do remember getting that "oh man, that's big" feeling when I played that a6 patch.


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## Joël Dollié (Dec 2, 2019)

I like music said:


> I see. Would you say Hollywood Brass is an example of that sound? I don't use HWB anymore, but I do remember getting that "oh man, that's big" feeling when I played that a6 patch.




HWB has other issues but I'd pick that tone over CSB. The spitfire brass recorded at air studios has way more room goodness for example. Even the BBC brass even though it doesn't get as buzzy.
Just not a fan of brass in small rooms.


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## Michael Stibor (Dec 2, 2019)

Joël Dollié said:


> I find them to be in a bit of a weird middle ground, it's not band brass obviously but it will never sound as huge as some big sounding AAA hollywood movie brass (which other libraries from some other manufacturers can do). It's just the tonal quality and early reflections that's not quite there imho.


Hmm, interesting. I see what you're saying, and I guess depending on the application they can either sound huge or not huge enough. 

And I find that their rawness adds to the perception that they're 'big' sounding. It's like trying to tame John Bonham's drums or something. They may not work for every mix.


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## Joël Dollié (Dec 2, 2019)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Hmm, interesting. I see what you're saying, and I guess depending on the application they can either sound huge or not huge enough.
> 
> And I find that their rawness adds to the perception that they're 'big' sounding. It's like trying to tame John Bonham's drums or something. They may not work for every mix.



I think they can sound fine, especially with extra reverb, but if you're going for that big lush modern sound I just think there are better alternatives. The width and depth you get from early reflections and the way the room affects the high mid tone of brass is quite dramatic, It's like the room removes some honkiness "cheap sounding" natural tone of brass and replaces it with majesty, that's what I'm missing. The sound bouncing back phases with the highs and creates that dense modern tone. More players help too, it's a combination of factors.


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## Michael Stibor (Dec 2, 2019)

Joël Dollié said:


> I think they can sound fine, especially with extra reverb, but if you're going for that big lush modern sound I just think there are better alternatives. The width and depth you get from early reflections and the way the room affects the high mid tone of brass is quite dramatic, It's like the room removes some honkiness "cheap sounding" natural tone of brass and replaces it with majesty, that's what I'm missing. The sound bouncing back phases with the highs and creates that dense modern tone. More players help too, it's a combination of factors.


I hear it, which is why sometimes - and I do mean sometimes - I opt for VSL brass (my only other alternative).


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## Noeticus (Dec 2, 2019)

Wouldn't adding reverb solve your small room sound problem?


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## TimCox (Dec 2, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> That's the place where alcoholics hook up for sex.


I stand corrected


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## Ashermusic (Dec 2, 2019)

CSB is not as big as the brass in Mteroplis Ark but it certainly is not small either.

As for the sound, IMO if you can’t make CSB sound really good you probably can’t make any brass library sound really good. Same is true of Hollywood Brass.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 2, 2019)

mikefrommontreal said:


> I opt for VSL brass (my only other alternative).



The big problem of VSL brass is that it was recorded on a silent stage.
The pp works, but at higher levels you simply hear the missing interaction of the room with the players.... unfortunately, you just hear the frustration the players most likely had experienced. That's something that no reverb plug in can erase....


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## Noeticus (Dec 2, 2019)

Living Fossil said:


> The big problem of VSL brass is that it was recorded on a silent stage.
> The pp works, but at higher levels you simply hear the missing interaction of the room with the players.... unfortunately, you just hear the frustration the players most likely had experienced. That's something that no reverb plug in can erase....



I don't quite follow this? Why does adding reverb not work to add reverb or?

Are you saying you hear things in the recorded pp sample if you turn it up loud?


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## mscp (Dec 2, 2019)

Being a party pooper - Do you own Berlin Brass? Doesn't matter. Buy CSB and then Berlin Brass.


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## Tinesaeriel (Dec 2, 2019)

I won't say I'm an expert on sampling - I'm still relatively new to this party - but I will say that CSB can absolutely sound big and majestic if you know how to use it. I will say that the low brass in CSB is definitely where much of my own disappointment with the library lies - this is where I would absolutely agree that you can't get a huge sound out of it - but with the tenor trombones, horns and trumpets? The sound you get can be just as big as any brass library recorded in a bigger space. I probably can't hear everything that you can that tips you off that it was recorded in a smaller venue - all I know is that it sounds right to me. 

I made this short mock-up of a section from one of James Newton Howard's pieces from his "Maleficent" soundtrack, specifically, from the track "Path of Destruction." All brass here is CSB, using the default mix mics.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 2, 2019)

Wow, i never imagined that a posting can be misunderstood that much.



Noeticus said:


> I don't quite follow this? Why does adding reverb not work to add reverb or?



Of course you can add reverb.
The problem is: without an appropriate acoustic environment, the players weren't obviously motivated to produce a great sound.
So while you have loud notes that you can reverberate ad nauseam, you don't have a nice loud sound, but rather quite a sh**ty loud sound.
Which - when reverberated, is a not so great sound with reverb.
(the other thing would be a great sound with reverb)



Noeticus said:


> Are you saying you hear things in the recorded pp sample if you turn it up loud?



No. I absolutely didn't say that.
What i meant is that in the silent stage setup, the notes at a low level (that don't rely that much on the feedback of the acoustic environment) sound much better than the loud ones.


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## David Kudell (Dec 2, 2019)

Personally I’d wait until the JunkieXL Brass walkthroughs are released any day now. With the current intro price, it might be the most affordable time to buy that for a while.


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## jononotbono (Dec 2, 2019)

Well, I’m looking forward to the walkthroughs and demos of JXL Brass and if a dev is doing a pre order on something that has never been released before and in a new player, I would expect to see them plenty ahead of time and before the preorder time runs out. It’s a bit frustrating because I’m excited about it but laying down that kind of money, at this point, is not happening for me.

The other thing that is drawing me to CSB is the amazing discount we get for owning the other libraries.


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## Joël Dollié (Dec 2, 2019)

Living Fossil said:


> Wow, i never imagined that a posting can be misunderstood that much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's not just that they're not motivated, but you can't put reverb on a dry recording and have it sound as good as a more far away recording in a nice room. Reverb works with what you feed it. If you feed it a close mic it will sound like a close mic with reverb on it. There are certain characteristics or the sound that cannot be eliminated with reverb no matter how much you put, which is why mic positions and the room are so important. I reckon that's the main issue. 

This is kind of a weird example but if you just try to imagine an asmr recording and put 100% reverb on it, it will never sound far away. It's kinda the same thing imo.


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## Noeticus (Dec 2, 2019)

Joël Dollié said:


> It's not just that they're not motivated, but you can't put reverb on a dry recording and have it sound as good as a more far away recording in a nice room. Reverb works with what you feed it. If you feed it a close mic it will sound like a close mic with reverb on it. There are certain characteristics or the sound that cannot be eliminated with reverb no matter how much you put, which is why mic positions and the room are so important. I reckon that's the main issue.
> 
> This is kind of a weird example but if you just try to imagine an asmr recording and put 100% reverb on it, it will never sound far away. It's kinda the same thing imo.



Have you tried "Altiverb".


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## Living Fossil (Dec 2, 2019)

Joël Dollié said:


> It's not just that they're not motivated, but you can't put reverb on a dry recording and have it sound as good as a more far away recording in a nice room. Reverb works with what you feed it



My experience isn't exactly the same as yours.
I think Precedence (and for sure SPAT, which i don't know first hand) is a huge step in the right direction, specially the new version. And by combining different reverbs you can even go deeper.
So, to make it short, I'm not in the "you have to record it with baked in reverb-camp" per se.
(that's a lot of attributes...)

But, as i wrote, when the substance isn't there, it's not there.
And unfortunately, the aspect of interaction with a space really is important for lots of musicians.
(it would be interesting to hear closed-sampled-libs with musicians who were trained in those tiny practising booths, maybe they can sound convincing in a completely dry room?)


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## Paul Cardon (Dec 2, 2019)

Noeticus said:


> Have you tried "Altiverb".


Altiverb is just another reverb.

Think of it this way: a real-life recording comes with a ton of spatial baggage. Other than a tail, there's a boatload of early reflections from all nearby surfaces and a lot more than just the direct instrument gets to the mic. If you've heard brass in an anechoic chamber, it sounds so unlike what we expect orchestral brass to sound like. Room impacts brass more than any other section.

Slapping reverb on only adds more spatial content. You can't get rid of the base tonal and spatial characteristics that are baked into the recording, and if those have issues, you can only try to fight and mask them, but because so much of the character of brass is impacted by the room and surfaces around it, it's the trickiest one to fight.



Tinesaeriel said:


> I made this short mock-up of a section from one of James Newton Howard's pieces from his "Maleficent" soundtrack, specifically, from the track "Path of Destruction." All brass here is CSB, using the default mix mics.


So this isn't bad at all and invokes a general feeling of bigness, but I can still hear that Trackdown room in there, the base-level character of the brass itself. Those same brass recorded from the get-go in a better room would make it much easier to get there.


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## ryans (Dec 2, 2019)

Judging from Cinematic Studio Brass demos.. I like the tone when the instruments are playing solo lines, but when the sections are playing together the result sounds rather.. 2 dimensional? The instruments don't seem to blend quite right and there is an unnatural frequency buildup in the midrange.

To be fair.. most samples suffer this issue but I think recording the brass in a smaller room makes it worse... 

Also I'm just judging from the demos I've heard, I don't have the library.. so maybe I should shut up.


Ryan


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## Ashermusic (Dec 2, 2019)

Not saying nobody could, but when push comes to shove if you put CSB in a reverb with a really good IR of a bigger space and compared it with a library recorded in that space, if both were artfully employed, my guess is that in a blind test not many people who think they could would consistently be able to correctly identify which was actually recorded in that space.


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## jononotbono (Dec 2, 2019)

Has anyone got any demos of CSB that they love that shows it off in its best light?


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## NoamL (Dec 2, 2019)

It is my *favorite* brass library. And not "favorite" as in I doodled around with it for a few hours - I used it as the main brass in synthestrating a long project with plenty of acrobatic Williams-style brass. The main sketchpad brass we were using was another brass library recorded with AFM musicians and used by many Hollywood composers (John Powell, Junkie XL until recently) and CSB nearly always made a marked improvement in the final track. We ended up with CSB (or live musicians) on every single cue, supplemented only by a bit of Albion and Symphobia for large-ensemble sounds.

CSB has enormous advantages for work on a deadline, one of the main ones being the incredible consistency of articulations and dynamics across the library. You could almost write something with your speakers off and know that it's going to sound the way it "looks" in the piano roll. As with other CS products I use a latency compensating script and there are several free ones floating out there. With that script in place, every single articulation and legato transition is bang on time without exception period. No "funny notes" to be found in this library. Also the dynamic range is excellent and the articulations are nimble and musical-sounding at every dynamic. The very large dynamic range means I wasn't pulling out another library to cover the gaps. That kind of workflow is so painful. The ONLY exception was two or three cues where we wanted a soft enveloping brass chorale and the CSB trombones are a little too soloistic and bottom out at mezzo-piano. Used the Albions there.

I agree about the sound (and also the lack of vibrato control hasn't been mentioned yet - if that's super important to you, this isn't your product). The mic premix doesn't have anything really "wrong" with it, but if you really want to push the sound towards something professional and cinematic I think you have to dive into the mics for this one, unlike CSS. I like to hear a lot more room and less close mics on these instruments. It would have been great to have this library recorded at Abbey Road or at AIR.... still, that doesn't stop this from being some kick butt brass.

I can't say it's the best in the world because I haven't tried everything... but if you're considering CSB vs Adventure Brass, Berlin Brass, Hollywood Brass, Auddict Master Brass, Cinebrass... I think it's better and easier to work with than all of those.


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## jononotbono (Dec 2, 2019)

NoamL said:


> It is my *favorite* brass library. And not "favorite" as in I doodled around with it for a few hours - I used it as the main brass in synthestrating a long project with plenty of acrobatic Williams-style brass. The main sketchpad brass we were using was another brass library recorded with AFM musicians and used by many Hollywood composers (John Powell, Junkie XL until recently) and CSB nearly always made a marked improvement in the final track. We ended up with CSB (or live musicians) on every single cue, supplemented only by a bit of Albion and Symphobia for large-ensemble sounds.
> 
> CSB has enormous advantages for work on a deadline, one of the main ones being the incredible consistency of articulations and dynamics across the library. You could almost write something with your speakers off and know that it's going to sound the way it "looks" in the piano roll. As with other CS products I use a latency compensating script and there are several free ones floating out there. With that script in place, every single articulation and legato transition is bang on time without exception period. No "funny notes" to be found in this library. Also the dynamic range is excellent and the articulations are nimble and musical-sounding at every dynamic. The very large dynamic range means I wasn't pulling out another library to cover the gaps. That kind of workflow is so painful. The ONLY exception was two or three cues where we wanted a soft enveloping brass chorale and the CSB trombones are a little too soloistic and bottom out at mezzo-piano. Used the Albions there.
> 
> I agree about the sound (and also the lack of vibrato control hasn't been mentioned yet - if that's super important to you, this isn't your product). The mic premix doesn't have anything really "wrong" with it, but if you really want to push the sound towards something professional and cinematic I think you have to dive into the mics for this one, unlike CSS. I like to hear a lot more room and less close mics on these instruments. It would have been great to have this library recorded at Abbey Road or at AIR.... still, that doesn't stop this from being some kick butt brass.



There’s no Vib control? What was the reasoning behind this design choice?


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## NoamL (Dec 2, 2019)

Instead of vibrato control you've got two sustain types, (normal) Legato, and Marcato (also with legato... sample library lingo is confusing!). The normal sustains have a natural sounding vibrato and the marcato sustains are more "stern."

You can mix and match notes in a phrase if you want (just like with CSS). But can't crossfade em.

Also here's a demo with the solo horn  (note - played in off the grid, therefore any timing issues are mine)


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## ag75 (Dec 2, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> This place is like an Alcoholics Anonymous group but for samples.


Except everyone is saying just take a drink what will it hurt.


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## jononotbono (Dec 2, 2019)

NoamL said:


> Instead of vibrato control you've got two sustain types, (normal) Legato, and Marcato (also with legato... sample library lingo is confusing!). The normal sustains have a natural sounding vibrato and the marcato sustains are more "stern."
> 
> Also here's a demo with the solo horn  (note - played in off the grid, therefore any timing issues are mine)



Damn you. That sounds great. I was about to go on the site again and buy it but luckily I can’t put my discount code in until the BF sale is over so this gives me two days to get a grip and not spend anymore money. Two days to regain control of myself.


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## NoamL (Dec 2, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Damn you. That sounds great. I was about to go on the site again and buy it but luckily I can’t put my discount code in until the BF sale is over so this gives me two days to get a grip and not spend anymore money. Two days to regain control of myself.



or two days to land a great gig that NEEDS some JW brass!  Go Jono Go!


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## borisb2 (Dec 2, 2019)

one thing I dont like about CSB (and CSS), is that you have no control of the release tails. In most libraries you can at least purge them, with Hollywood Brass (or Play in general) you can exactly set the volume - soo useful sometimes

In CSB I just find them too loud / washy - mixing in close mic helps of course ..


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 2, 2019)

Joël Dollié said:


> I personally don't really like the sound, brass needs a big room to have a nice tone. CSB looks very playable but it doesn't really have a great tone compared to other options out there. It just sounds a little bit honky and small, not enough air is being moved. It's fine for smaller sounding animation scoring maybe but I don't think it's a great option for big lush cinematic stuff. CSS, even though it's also a smaller room does blend way better with extra reverb. Brass is just more room dependant, mainly because it's so loud.


track down is almost the same size as teldex, whom many complain is too wet lol. 

I personally dont much like the shorts of csb as much as the shorts from berlin brass.

and there are definitely some CSS/CSB frequencies that bother me - but it's got some really mean fff on a4 horns


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 2, 2019)

Living Fossil said:


> The big problem of VSL brass is that it was recorded on a silent stage.
> The pp works, but at higher levels you simply hear the missing interaction of the room with the players.... unfortunately, you just hear the frustration the players most likely had experienced. That's something that no reverb plug in can erase....



Dimension Brass with the Synchron IRs and a good algo on top sounds awesome. Same goes for CSB - the mic positions have enough spatial information to convey a plausible impression of depth and positioning, and the rest can be done with a quality algo and it sounds great. I have very ambient brass libraries too, but interestingly DB and CSB are definitely my favorites.

I think the whole "you need to have ambience baked in" thing is a bit of a myth, or a truism, perpetuated by certain people. There's no reason why brass samples could only ever be acceptable if recorded with lots of ambience. I don't even like a massive ambience in real recordings either. But that's the age-old debate, right.


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## Tinesaeriel (Dec 3, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Has anyone got any demos of CSB that they love that shows it off in its best light?



I do!

This one's very Williams-esque - it's Lego Star Wars, after all! - but this style of brass writing is one area where CSB really shines.


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## galactic orange (Dec 3, 2019)

Tinesaeriel said:


> I do!
> 
> This one's very Williams-esque - it's Lego Star Wars, after all! - but this style of brass writing is one area where CSB really shines.



Some of those Lego games have superb original music. Nice choice!


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## Living Fossil (Dec 3, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Dimension Brass with the Synchron IRs and a good algo on top sounds awesome.



I was refering to the Brass that came with the Cube.


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## ricoderks (Dec 3, 2019)

Oof I really did not like that Lego Example. The programming is not that great


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## N.Caffrey (Dec 3, 2019)

ricoderks said:


> Oof I really did not like that Lego Example. The programming is not that great


your snippet of a piece you posted months ago using CSB (I'd love to hear it finished!) was absolutely amazing!


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## ricoderks (Dec 3, 2019)

N.Caffrey said:


> your snippet of a piece you posted months ago using CSB (I'd love to hear it finished!) was absolutely amazing!


You meant the Benny Oschmann Composition?


Yeah... still not finished haha sorry!


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## N.Caffrey (Dec 3, 2019)

ricoderks said:


> You meant the Benny Oschmann Composition?
> 
> 
> Yeah... still not finished haha sorry!



no no it was a piece of yours! it was like 30 seconds. I think it was private on soundcloud as well, as might have been part of a project.


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## ricoderks (Dec 3, 2019)

N.Caffrey said:


> no no it was a piece of yours! it was like 30 seconds. I think it was private on soundcloud as well, as might have been part of a project.


Hmm. Cant remember. Probably not gonna finish that either then


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## Reid Rosefelt (Dec 3, 2019)

Buying CSB increases the authority of your comments in all future "Should I buy CSW?" threads.


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## MisteR (Dec 3, 2019)

Well then I guess I'm in.


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## Pantonal (Dec 3, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Damn you. That sounds great. I was about to go on the site again and buy it but luckily I can’t put my discount code in until the BF sale is over so this gives me two days to get a grip and not spend anymore money. Two days to regain control of myself.


It's probably too late now, but I emailed and asked if the discounts could be layered and was offered cashback. That inspired me to pull the trigger. In only a few days of noodling I'm impressed and enjoying it. The trumpets are a bit brash and take some work to pull down for mellower stuff (or just use the Embertone Chapman trumpet I picked up cheap for BF).


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## jeremiahpena (Dec 3, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Has anyone got any demos of CSB that they love that shows it off in its best light?





All CSB.

I'm in complete agreement with @NoamL, it's my favorite brass library by far. Some other libraries have a better tone in certain areas, but CSB direct usability and musicality completely make up for it. For example, I prefer the tone of Berlin Brass's trombone shorts, but they jump straight from mf to ff with that annoying crossfade buzzing in-between that plagues so many brass libraries. CSB's doesn't have that problem whatsoever, so I almost always use it instead.


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## turnerofwheels (Dec 3, 2019)

After going through a bunch of demos, comparisons elsewhere on vi control, and the twitch livestream, I gotta say that the dynamic xfades on CSB sound pretty amazing and the tight focused sections are great.. I'm considering picking up a library to fill in the gaps in my current selection on the last day of the Black Friday sales. Century Brass is appealing for its raspy upper range dynamics but this is a strong contender... fun decisions to have to make


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## Mike Fox (Dec 3, 2019)

jeremiahpena said:


> All CSB.
> 
> I'm in complete agreement with @NoamL, it's my favorite brass library by far. Some other libraries have a better tone in certain areas, but CSB direct usability and musicality completely make up for it. For example, I prefer the tone of Berlin Brass's trombone shorts, but they jump straight from mf to ff with that annoying crossfade buzzing in-between that plagues so many brass libraries. CSB's doesn't have that problem whatsoever, so I almost always use it instead.



Awesome work! CSB sounds great in that piece. Is that CSS as well?


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## N.Caffrey (Dec 3, 2019)

Is the legato in CSB similar to CSS? I’ve been using today the “almost” new Spitfire Solo Strings.. well let’s say I’ve had to go back to CSSS. Just made me appreciate how good the legato there is.


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## jononotbono (Dec 3, 2019)

jeremiahpena said:


> All CSB.
> 
> I'm in complete agreement with @NoamL, it's my favorite brass library by far. Some other libraries have a better tone in certain areas, but CSB direct usability and musicality completely make up for it. For example, I prefer the tone of Berlin Brass's trombone shorts, but they jump straight from mf to ff with that annoying crossfade buzzing in-between that plagues so many brass libraries. CSB's doesn't have that problem whatsoever, so I almost always use it instead.




Love it!


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## jonathanparham (Dec 3, 2019)

jeremiahpena said:


> All CSB.
> 
> I'm in complete agreement with @NoamL, it's my favorite brass library by far. Some other libraries have a better tone in certain areas, but CSB direct usability and musicality completely make up for it. For example, I prefer the tone of Berlin Brass's trombone shorts, but they jump straight from mf to ff with that annoying crossfade buzzing in-between that plagues so many brass libraries. CSB's doesn't have that problem whatsoever, so I almost always use it instead.



Wow. The work takes my breath away. May I ask what was it for?


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## Architekton (Dec 3, 2019)

CSB all the way, excellent stuff. Cant wait for CSW!!!


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 3, 2019)

I was scoring a film a few months agi and ended up enhancing the whole thing with CSB and it ended up making it way better. I just find it really difficult to push it back in the room, even when using the far mics.


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## BassClef (Dec 3, 2019)

I also just got CSB. Only draw back for me so far is that the horn dynamic layers move too quickly into the "brassy" or "edgy" realm... same for trombones. As a French horn player myself, I find this slightly uncharacteristic. I'be been experimenting with reverbs (Logic Chromaverb and Space Designer) and eq searching for a happy median. Keep in mind, I am pretty new to VI.


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## Thundercat (Dec 8, 2019)

ricoderks said:


> You meant the Benny Oschmann Composition?
> 
> 
> Yeah... still not finished haha sorry!



Wow! Just, WOW!!! Stunning man!!! Thank-you for sharing. Hope you're getting the big gigs; you are TALENTED!!!


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## ricoderks (Dec 8, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> Wow! Just, WOW!!! Stunning man!!! Thank-you for sharing. Hope you're getting the big gigs; you are TALENTED!!!


Thank you so much man! But the real talented man here is Benny! I just tried to program the notes by ear! You can hear some music from me in this video series:



More coming soon!

Rico


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## Thundercat (Dec 8, 2019)

I hate to break it to you but...

this is REALLY GOOD TOO!!!!
Don’t sell yourself short man; you’ve got it going on too!!

Thx for sharing.

mike


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## ricoderks (Dec 10, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> I hate to break it to you but...
> 
> this is REALLY GOOD TOO!!!!
> Don’t sell yourself short man; you’ve got it going on too!!
> ...


Thanks Thundercat!
Really nice to hear you liked it!

If you'd like to see more, here's the second part:



Cheers!

Rico


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## Thundercat (Dec 10, 2019)

ricoderks said:


> Thanks Thundercat!
> Really nice to hear you liked it!
> 
> If you'd like to see more, here's the second part:
> ...



Geez it even sounds incredible on my iPhone! Nice mixing job too!

The sounds were also really clear and had a nice sense of depth and space to them.

thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed that!

mike


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## constaneum (Dec 11, 2019)

ricoderks said:


> Thanks Thundercat!
> Really nice to hear you liked it!
> 
> If you'd like to see more, here's the second part:
> ...




Interested to know your setup. For example, what MIC is used? What reverb? and etc


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## ricoderks (Dec 11, 2019)

constaneum said:


> Interested to know your setup. For example, what MIC is used? What reverb? and etc


Sure! For CSS and CSB I have all mics loaded and mixed them to my own taste. Slightly more close for strings and less for the brass. Also panned them a bit more to the left and right. Maybe too much but oh well... Strings and Brass are triggered from a slave pc running vienna ensemble with ssd drives. Woodwinds are also mixed with close, decca and room mics. (Auddict Audio Woodwinds) To try to make them fit in the same space. Also done with True strike for example. Which offers 3 mic positions. All samples which sounded too dry or upclose after the mic mixings of the samples, I treated with either pro-r from fabfilter or Altiverb, mostly the teldex stage. Then in the midi/composing project I route everything to seperate bus groups and make stems out of it. Mixing was done in a separate project with just a handful of stems. Mostly balancing and eq. Slight overall compression on the master and a tad of limiting was applied. Also another send to seventh heaven reverb pro. Hall preset with around 2.5 seconds of tail. Think that's it!

Rico


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## Rob Elliott (Dec 11, 2019)

ricoderks said:


> Sure! For CSS and CSB I have all mics loaded and mixed them to my own taste. Slightly more close for strings and less for the brass. Also panned them a bit more to the left and right. Maybe too much but oh well... Strings and Brass are triggered from a slave pc running vienna ensemble with ssd drives. Woodwinds are also mixed with close, decca and room mics. (Auddict Audio Woodwinds) To try to make them fit in the same space. Also done with True strike for example. Which offers 3 mic positions. All samples which sounded too dry or upclose after the mic mixings of the samples, I treated with either pro-r from fabfilter or Altiverb, mostly the teldex stage. Then in the midi/composing project I route everything to seperate bus groups and make stems out of it. Mixing was done in a separate project with just a handful of stems. Mostly balancing and eq. Slight overall compression on the master and a tad of limiting was applied. Also another send to seventh heaven reverb pro. Hall preset with around 2.5 seconds of tail. Think that's it!
> 
> Rico



Thanks for sharing this Rico. On CSB, CSS are you panning ONLY the close mics and leaving room and main straight up?


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## ricoderks (Dec 11, 2019)

Rob Elliott said:


> Thanks for sharing this Rico. On CSB, CSS are you panning ONLY the close mics and leaving room and main straight up?



Actually, no. I wanted to give the impression that the room is slightly larger than the recorded material.
Panning was more like this for the horns for example:

Close: L -35
Decca: L -20
Room: L -15

Strings were mainly close and a bit of decca panned.

I think that worked because that complete stereo signal was going through a reverb. That gave a little reflection on the right channel back. But i don't think i'm gonna keep these setting since 3 mics per instrument on CSS, CSSS and CSB is really processor and disk speed heavy. Even from separate internal ssd's. Probably going back to the drawing board for my next project.

Rico


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## Rob Elliott (Dec 11, 2019)

ricoderks said:


> Actually, no. I wanted to give the impression that the room is slightly larger than the recorded material.
> Panning was more like this for the horns for example:
> 
> Close: L -35
> ...



Nice - I'll give that a try. Perhaps 'write' with ONLY main mics and when you export to audio - turn all the mics on (they will retain their 'panning' you set up). I have found that this is worth the hassle for these libraries.


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## ricoderks (Dec 11, 2019)

Rob Elliott said:


> Nice - I'll give that a try. Perhaps 'write' with ONLY main mics and when you export to audio - turn all the mics on (they will retain their 'panning' you set up). I have found that this is worth the hassle for these libraries.


Yeah maybe i'll try that! Thanks!


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## constaneum (Dec 11, 2019)

I tend to use ensemble patch for the short stuffs but wanna clarify one thing. Ensemble patch are locked with mix mic right? No way to select close , decca and room mics. 😭


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## BassClef (Dec 11, 2019)

constaneum said:


> I tend to use ensemble patch for the short stuffs but wanna clarify one thing. Ensemble patch are locked with mix mic right? No way to select close , decca and room mics. 😭



Yes... you can only adjust the level or "balance" between the sections and their pan setting.


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## constaneum (Dec 11, 2019)

BassClef said:


> Yes... you can only adjust the level or "balance" between the sections and their pan setting.



sad...i wish Alex would consider updating the ensemble patches which allows us to adjust the mic settings as we like instead of just lock down to the MIX mic.


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