# OUT NOW: Xperimenta Pf2 - Piano F



## fcangia (Jun 7, 2022)




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## jon wayne (Jun 7, 2022)

You got me again, Flavio!!


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## CGR (Jun 7, 2022)

Excited for this one. Sounds stunning


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## evilantal (Jun 8, 2022)

This looks and sounds awesome.
Love your other pianos as well!


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## pulsedownloader (Jun 8, 2022)

Sounds very nice


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## SupremeFist (Jun 8, 2022)

Looking very likely to be my first piano purchase of 2022. 🤘🏻


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## Alfeus Aditya (Jun 8, 2022)

Love it!


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## pcohen12 (Jun 8, 2022)

Oh boy oh boy oh boy!


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## fan455 (Jun 8, 2022)

A sampled Fazioli? I missed the latest Due sale and hopefully there will be an intro price for this .


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## fcangia (Jun 9, 2022)

*OUT NOW: PF2 - PIANO F *
https://www.xperimentaproject.com/pf2-pianos-piano-f/



​The Xperimenta team is proud and excited to present _Piano F_, the first release of the brand new Xperimenta PF2 Series: a unique collection of iconic pianos that firmly represent the instrument’s tradition.

Our team deeply sampled a beautifully handmade Italian Gran Coda. Due to its wide dynamic range, spectral balance and harmonic richness this instrument is considered one of the best pianos in the world.

- Gran Coda of 284cm recorded in a 120mq studio hall
- Up to 24 Dynamic Layers
- Sympathetic Resonance, Overtones, Release, Player Noises, Hammer Noise, Pedal Noise, and sampled noise from analog gear, for an incredible playability.
- Creative Layers from sampled instruments and felt noises
- 3 Microphone Settings + Mix
- And more!

Check it out at https://www.xperimentaproject.com/pf2-pianos-piano-f/

*INTRO PRICE 89$ (reg. 129$)*


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## pulsedownloader (Jun 9, 2022)

Congrats, its stunning


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## filipjonathan (Jun 9, 2022)

You had me at 24 layers 😃


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## Dr.Quest (Jun 9, 2022)

fan455 said:


> A sampled Fazioli? I missed the latest Due sale and hopefully there will be an intro price for this .


$89. Quite reasonable.


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## Napier Lopez (Jun 9, 2022)

Sounds amazing! I know the Due recieved half pedaling after it's release. Are there plans to introduce half pedaling here at some point? Sorry, had to ask =]


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## davinwv (Jun 9, 2022)

I wish it were Kontakt Player compatible, but none of Xperimenta's libraries are. So, that's not a surprising aspect of this release.


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## filipjonathan (Jun 9, 2022)

@Simeon, we're waiting


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## ptram (Jun 9, 2022)

It sounds simply incredible! Congratulations, and thank you for the particularly kind introductory price!

Paolo

PS: May I suggest to add the name of the software house in the thread title? As it is, the announcement goes a bit unnoticed.


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## poly6 (Jun 9, 2022)

Between this new Xperimenta offering, Soundpaint's 1985 Passionate Grand, Key Instruments' Oeser and the Auddict's Dorian Marko, that's a lot of recent piano love. So many choices! But I love Xperimenta's Due and love what I'm hearing in this Piano F so I think I know where my GAS money later this month is going....


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## chapbot (Jun 9, 2022)

poly6 said:


> Between this new Xperimenta offering, Soundpaint's 1985 Passionate Grand, Key Instruments' Oeser and the Auddict's Dorian Marko, that's a lot of recent piano love. So many choices! But I love Xperimenta's Due and love what I'm hearing in this Piano F so I think I know where my GAS money later this month is going....


I thought the same thing, the DUE pianos have such beautiful tone I think I'll try this one out.


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## CGR (Jun 9, 2022)

Brilliant work Flavio. Not only a stunningly realistic sampled acoustic piano, but the layers, formant shifting and impulse responses can take the piano into creative – and I know this word is overused – "cinematic" sound design territory.

PS: For transparency, I assisted Flavio with beta testing this piano, but whole-heartedly give it a huge thumbs up.


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## sostenuto (Jun 9, 2022)

..... and just barely 'finally' got Ravenscroft 275 !! There truly is no end _ none. 🤯


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## mandan (Jun 9, 2022)

I will use this piano for a long time I think. I recorded a Czerny etude.
View attachment Czerny - op. 299 no. 20.mp3


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## mandan (Jun 9, 2022)




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## jamie8 (Jun 9, 2022)

I wonder how this is for pop or brighter sounding music, and how resource intensive this is on the computer, i have the walker D155 and it is hard to get it to play without dropping a few notes ,.. and i have a powerful system, it lacks a bit in the fullness of the bottom end as well but i love the top end its warm and close sounding like you are right there with it..
I also have the Garritan abbey road yamaha and its not the light version and it has a huge bottom end but is somehow off for somethings, and has a huge room sound baked in that makes it seem a little farther away almost distant however it is not using to many resources and is easy to play... maybe im to fussy. both of these replaced my synthogy Ivory witch is old and dated to my ears ,...I wish i had a triple sensor keyboard but its a nord stage 3.None of these come close to the grand in the house


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## CGR (Jun 9, 2022)

jamie8 said:


> I wonder how this is for pop or brighter sounding music, and how resource intensive this is on the computer, i have the walker D155 and it is hard to get it to play without dropping a few notes ,.. and i have a powerful system, it lacks a bit in the fullness of the bottom end as well but i love the top end its warm and close sounding like you are right there with it..
> I also have the Garritan abbey road yamaha and its not the light version and it has a huge bottom end but is somehow off for somethings, and has a huge room sound baked in that makes it seem a little farther away almost distant however it is not using to many resources and is easy to play... maybe im to fussy. both of these replaced my synthogy Ivory witch is old and dated to my ears ,...I wish i had a triple sensor keyboard but its a nord stage 3.None of these come close to the grand in the house


The close mics have a nice tight studio tone. Fazioli grand pianos are inherently clear and quite bright, and the tone shaping & dynamic controls in the GUI, plus increasing the release samples, allow further brightening for a pop character. Much less taxing on computer resources than the Walker D (I have the full version of that with the additional mics).


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## SupremeFist (Jun 10, 2022)

I'd like if possible to hear something drier and more intimate than the demos which are all quite roomy.


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## filipjonathan (Jun 10, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> I'd like if possible to hear something drier and more intimate than the demos which are all quite roomy.


Check out the walkthrough.


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## SupremeFist (Jun 10, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> Check out the walkthrough.


Need more.


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## CGR (Jun 10, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> Need more.


Here ya go . . . some random nonsense playing but should give you an idea with the Close + Mid mics and no reverb. The Mid mic at a lower level gives it more body without adding too much room ambience.
View attachment Xperimenta PF2 Piano F - Close-DRY.mp3


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## filipjonathan (Jun 10, 2022)

CGR said:


> Here ya go . . . some random nonsense playing but should give you an idea with the Close + Mid mics and no reverb. The Mid mic at a lower level gives it more body without adding too much room ambience.
> View attachment Xperimenta PF2 Piano F - Close-DRY.mp3


What is the minimum RAM usage? I assume you achieve it by using just the mix mic.


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## CGR (Jun 10, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> What is the minimum RAM usage? I assume you achieve it by using just the mix mic.


With a Kontakt DFD preload buffer of 66kB:

Close mic only or Mix mic: 451MB
Close + Mid: 0.81GB
Close + Mid + Room: 1.18GB


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## filipjonathan (Jun 10, 2022)

CGR said:


> With a Kontakt DFD preload buffer of 66kB:
> 
> Close mic only or Mix mic: 451MB
> Close + Mid: 0.81GB
> Close + Mid + Room: 1.18GB


Thanks!


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## SupremeFist (Jun 10, 2022)

CGR said:


> Here ya go . . . some random nonsense playing but should give you an idea with the Close + Mid mics and no reverb. The Mid mic at a lower level gives it more body without adding too much room ambience.
> View attachment Xperimenta PF2 Piano F - Close-DRY.mp3


Thank you sir; bought!


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## filipjonathan (Jun 10, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> Thank you sir; bought!


Please let us know your impressions.


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## SupremeFist (Jun 10, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> Please let us know your impressions.


Initial impressions are that it's just as good as I hoped and expected, already being a superfan of the Due Second Piano (Yamaha C3). This one is a bit more refined but still has a very satisfying woody three-dimensionality and chewiness to the tone. I think it will go straight into my half-dozen "go to" piano VIs.


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## axb312 (Jun 10, 2022)

fcangia said:


> *OUT NOW: PF2 - PIANO F *
> https://www.xperimentaproject.com/pf2-pianos-piano-f/
> 
> 
> ...



How many RRs?


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## re-peat (Jun 10, 2022)

Excellent sound.

Something a bit wrong though, in my opinion anyway, with the dynamic response of the default patch. Mezzforte and forte is great but playing more pianissimo, the instrument not only sounds softer — which is as it should be, obviously— but it sounds A LOT quieter as well, as if someone pulls the volume fader down on top of the instrument's natural decrease in level. Which is not so great.

And you can’t solve the problem entirely with the Dynamic controls on the GUI. I get better results — still not entirely realistic, alas — when I open the Editor (luckily, the library isn’t locked) and further reduce the velocity-to-volume modulation for all the Sus groups and do a few other tweaks, in combination with what’s possible via the controls on the GUI. I now have a patch which, under my hands at least, feels a lot more playable (what I consider 'playable' anyway) that the default one.

But the recording quality of this instrument is truly outstanding. Superb bass register, well-balanced timbre in the mids and sparkling highs. My very short list of favourite Kontakt pianos has changed.

__


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## jamie8 (Jun 10, 2022)

CGR said:


> The close mics have a nice tight studio tone. Fazioli grand pianos are inherently clear and quite bright, and the tone shaping & dynamic controls in the GUI, plus increasing the release samples, allow further brightening for a pop character. Much less taxing on computer resources than the Walker D (I have the full version of that with the additional mics).


Ok thanks for the info😊🤘


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## SupremeFist (Jun 10, 2022)

I am also very excited (for real) that this is apparently, if I am understanding the marketing description correctly, just the first in a series of new pianos to be sampled by Flavio.


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## Napier Lopez (Jun 10, 2022)

re-peat said:


> Excellent sound.
> 
> Something a bit wrong though, in my opinion anyway, with the dynamic response of the default patch. Mezzforte and forte is great but playing more pianissimo, the instrument not only sounds softer — which is as it should be, obviously— but it sounds A LOT quieter as well, as if someone pulls the volume fader down on top of the instrument's natural decrease in level. Which is not so great.
> 
> ...



Your impressions echo mine to a tee! I love the sound, but I likewise feel the dynamic range is a bit off in the pp-mp range -- too quiet, so changing the velocity curve doesn't really help, nor does the vel>vol setting fully get me there. Perhaps I just need to mess around more.

I'm not so skilled editing kontakt though -- is there a way you can share your preset?


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## chapbot (Jun 10, 2022)

re-peat said:


> Excellent sound.
> 
> Something a bit wrong though, in my opinion anyway, with the dynamic response of the default patch. Mezzforte and forte is great but playing more pianissimo, the instrument not only sounds softer — which is as it should be, obviously— but it sounds A LOT quieter as well, as if someone pulls the volume fader down on top of the instrument's natural decrease in level. Which is not so great.
> 
> ...


Do all mics/patches have this issue or is it just the default patch?


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## re-peat (Jun 11, 2022)

Mine is just a quick rough fix, *Napier*. I lowered the velocity-to-volume-modulation values of the Sus groups and also adjusted the velocity-to-volume-mapping curve a bit. But, while resulting in what I think is a somewhat more playable instrument, it’s still not as it should be and definitely not the solution which the problem requires.

And I didn’t want to raise the minimum value of the velocity curve too high either — which is the easiest, but also a very blunt fix — for fear of bypassing the lowest velocity zones. (I have it set now at 12.) Would be a shame to have to reduce an instrument that has 24 velocity layers to one which only has 20 or 21 layers, wouldn't it? Moreover, you’d loose some of the pianissimo colour too.

Messing about in the Kontakt editor, like I did, can only accomplish so much, which, in this case, isn’t enough. For a true solution, the scripting needs to be looked at, and every setting which determines the way velocity affects volume for ALL the relevant sample groups — not just the three Sus groups which I edited — has to be thoroughly revised, in my opinion.

*Chapbot*, the problem has nothing to do with the different mic perspectives. It’s the programming of the dynamic response of the instrument, especially at lower velocities, which is flawed. Like I said, when you play in a medium and/or higher dynamic range, the instrument’s response is reasonably OK (though still not quite as playable as I feel a piano should be and as some virtual pianos are), but if you dip below mezzo and play piano or pianissimo, the volume of the instrument drops excessively. It’s really very noticeable — and seriously annoying if you play softly because then, many of the notes become almost inaudible — which is why it puzzles me so much that this strange and most unpiano-like dynamic behaviour made it into the final release.

Anyway, let’s hope it’ll get fixed. The samples deserve it.

There’s two other little issues which I ran into:

(1) Raising the “Rel. Samples” parameter, if you happen to like to hear a bit more release sound, has the unwelcome result that the release samples of the five bottom notes of the instrument (A-1 > C#-1) are waaaaaaay too loud. Check it, you'll hear it immediately. Very easy problem to solve though, I imagine.

(2) Slightly less easy to correct (but still very doable) and an issue which bothers me much more than the previous one, is the uneven ‘timbral weight’ of some notes in the C1-C2 octave. The reason why it is essential for this octave to have a very consistent homogenous weight in its notes, is because these notes are often (part of) the foundation of chords (or differently defined harmony), and if one note sounds too different from its neighbours in this particular octave and has a noticeable different ‘weight’, you end up with chords of inconsistent weight as well, which can get rather frustrating in delicate passages.
Unfortunately that’s precisely what occurs here (and the problem is enlarged because the instrument isn’t sampled chromatically): the note-pairs E1-F1 and G#1-A1 have a much fuller, deeper and rounder sound than the somewhat thin-sounding pair F#1-G1. (I looked at all these notes in a spectrum analyzer and it confirms what I hear.) The difference is alas big enough to cause all sorts of voicing problems and thus hamper carefully judged expression within that octave. A workable fix would be to re-EQ the note pair F#1-G1 so that its weight matches that of its neighbours. A subtle boost in the 80Hz-150Hz range might do the trick.

__


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## Gerbil (Jun 11, 2022)

re-peat said:


> Excellent sound.
> 
> Something a bit wrong though, in my opinion anyway, with the dynamic response of the default patch. Mezzforte and forte is great but playing more pianissimo, the instrument not only sounds softer — which is as it should be, obviously— but it sounds A LOT quieter as well, as if someone pulls the volume fader down on top of the instrument's natural decrease in level. Which is not so great.
> 
> ...


I said the same thing yesterday after listening to the demo in the piano comparison thread and I’m grateful that you’ve confirmed my suspicions. Think I’ll wait until this gets a proper fix - hopefully a quick one because it is a very nice sounding instrument.


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## fan455 (Jun 11, 2022)

re-peat said:


> Mine is just a quick rough fix, *Napier*. I lowered the velocity-to-volume-modulation values of the Sus groups and also adjusted the velocity-to-volume-mapping curve a bit. But, while resulting in what I think is a somewhat more playable instrument, it’s still not as it should be and definitely not the solution which the problem requires.
> 
> And I didn’t want to raise the minium value of the velocity curve too high either — which is the easiest, but also a very blunt fix — for fear of bypassing the lowest velocity zones. (I have it set now at 12.) Would be a shame to have to reduce an instrument that has 24 velocity layers to one which only has 20 or 21 layers, wouldn't it? Moreover, you’d loose some of the pianissimo colour too.
> 
> ...


Hi re-peat, do you think this might help the developer solve the issue a little bit? Thanks!






Do you think volume normalization can be a good strategy for piano sample libraries?


Just batch normalize all the piano samples, no matter hard or soft, to the same peak level. It's a simple automated process in most DAWs. And after mapping samples in kontakt, use this script: on note change_vol ($event_id, (($event_vel-64)*240), 1) end on 240 means 240 millidecibels. The...




vi-control.net


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## OleJoergensen (Jun 11, 2022)

It sounds beautiful!
How many gig is the library?



Edit: 7.87 GB


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## re-peat (Jun 11, 2022)

fan455 said:


> do you think this might help the developer solve the issue a little bit?



I’m not sure normalization is a good idea for the simple reason that perceived loudness differs from measured (or ‘abstract’) loudness. If you were to normalise 50 carefully recorded piano samples — assuring a consistency of level during the recording — and then normalize these samples, there’s every chance that they’ll come out sounding a lot more uneven than they did before the normalisation process, even if a measurement indicates perfect loudness equality. And what do you do then? Especially with a piano where the perceived loudness is very dependent on the range and the dynamic of the instrument, I would think that normalization, while it may bring some advantages, merely replaces one set of calibration problems with another, possibly more difficult to tame, one.

_


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## SupremeFist (Jun 11, 2022)

re-peat said:


> I’m not sure normalization is a good idea for the simple reason that perceived loudness differs from measured (or ‘abstract’) loudness. If you were to normalise 50 carefully recorded piano samples — assuring a consistency of level during the recording — and then normalize these samples, there’s every chance that they’ll come out sounding a lot more uneven than they did before the normalisation process, even if a measurement indicates perfect loudness equality. And what do you do then? Especially with a piano where the perceived loudness is very dependent on the range and the dynamic of the instrument, I would think that normalization, while it may bring some advantages, merely replaces one set of calibration problems with another, possibly more difficult to tame, one.
> 
> _


Are you acquainted with the C. Bechstein Digital? I don't know what it's doing under the hood with the "smoothing" option on dynamics (as well as on string eq) but it seems to work well (at considerable CPU cost of course).

(Edit: apologies, just remembered this is the commercial announcement thread so considered uncool to mention competing products, though they are very different instruments.)


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## sostenuto (Jun 11, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> Are you acquainted with the C. Bechstein Digital? I don't know what it's doing under the hood with the "smoothing" option on dynamics (as well as on string eq) but it seems to work well (at considerable CPU cost of course).
> 
> (Edit: apologies, just remembered this is the commercial announcement thread so considered uncool to mention competing products, though they are very different instruments.)


Kinda frustrated at this never-ending scenario. Maybe COMMERCIAL Threads can have a bright *RED* header _ or something _ to further raise awareness. Make this mistake often, but usually Delete post quickly. 😒

_Appreciate the Beckstein refernce tho !_


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## kj.metissage (Jun 11, 2022)

Alright guys, after playing with it 2 days, I can say that it's a really inspiring library. Fun to play.

I'm enjoying the mid and mid-high registers, but...

Yes there is a but, the low-mid and low registers have some inconsistencies, that could be annoying.

The balance sounds off to me, and the lows are not deep enough accross the whole register.

I mean the bass frequencies distribution sounds off. For example, if you play: F#0 - G0, than G#0 - A0, you can clearly hear it.

Especially with high velocities.

Those notes lack snap, and miss that "metal attack" sound:
D#0 - E0 - F0 - F#0 - G0

Those notes too:
A#0 - B0

And those notes have issues:
D1 - D#1 (volume/level issues, too low compared to the rest of the notes, as well as a different tone)
G#1 - A1 (resonance sounds off, and they lack "snap" too)

Did you notice it?


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## chapbot (Jun 11, 2022)

kj.metissage said:


> Alright guys, after playing with it 2 days, I can say that it's a really inspiring library. Fun to play.
> 
> I'm enjoying the mid and mid-high registers, but...
> 
> ...


I really appreciate the honest critique people have been giving on this library. In this day and age when there are a plethora of piano libraries, you had better make sure your product is 100% ship shape if you want to compete, especially now with the economy crashing.

2 years ago I would have bought this without hesitation - the tone sounds wonderful.

But not now, unless I hear from the developer that they are actively working on these inconsistencies.

I have really, really great piano libraries. Sure, I'm always looking for something that will take realism up a notch, but I'm also watching my pennies as inflation is exploding.


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## pcohen12 (Jun 11, 2022)

I'll echo basically all of the thoughts above. This has possibly my favorite tone of any of my piano libraries (and I have many 😅), and the recording quality is superb. But yes, definitely running into issues with scripting and inconsistencies. Thankfully, these (I think) should be very fixable problems.

Adding to what @re-peat said above about the release samples - I'm finding that, even without changing the default release sample volume, high velocities on the lowest 7 notes (A-1 to D#-1) cause a way too loud release sample that makes it sounds like those notes are hit twice. I suppose it could be handy for playing fast ostinato passages 😛

Has anyone passed these bug reports directly to Xperimenta/Flavio yet (i.e. through the website contact form or emailing [email protected])?


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## OleJoergensen (Jun 12, 2022)

I just bought it and played half an hour and love it, what a beautiful tone!
With this thread in mind, I also experiencing the "problems" but hope and think a quick update can fix this.

A short test, using the classical 2 preset, nothing els.


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## CGR (Jun 12, 2022)

OleJoergensen said:


> I just bought it and played half an hour and love it, what a beautiful tone!
> With this thread in mind, I also experiencing the "problems" but hope and think a quick update can fix this.
> 
> A short test, using the classical 2 preset, nothing els.
> (attach mp3 file seems not working)...


I think these issues could be addressed and remedied in an update. Flavio released 2 or 3 updates to the Due pianos which improved playability and added some features, so hopefully this Fazioli will be further refined. The quality and resolution of the samples should allow for this.


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## OleJoergensen (Jun 12, 2022)

CGR said:


> I think these issues could be addressed and remedied in an update. Flavio released 2 or 3 updates to the Due pianos which improved playability and added some features, so hopefully this Fazioli will be further refined. The quality and resolution of the samples should allow for this.


Thank you, that is good information.


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## kj.metissage (Jun 12, 2022)

pcohen12 said:


> Adding to what @re-peat said above about the release samples - I'm finding that, even without changing the default release sample volume, high velocities on the lowest 7 notes (A-1 to D#-1) cause a way too loud release sample that makes it sounds like those notes are hit twice. I suppose it could be handy for playing fast ostinato passages 😛


Ditto! Forgot to write about those release samples. Thanks for pointing this out.


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## sostenuto (Jun 12, 2022)

Not understanding how a capable, respected source, can release an important library with these _ easily, noted _ issues. Truly excited to see this new offering, then startled by the deficiencies. 
Ready to purchase immediately _ when properly 're-released'.


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## kj.metissage (Jun 12, 2022)

Sometimes I wish companies would release a perfect alongside an imperfect sounding sample set.

Like what Imperfect Samples did with their own FAZIOLI library on the Extreme version.


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## sostenuto (Jun 12, 2022)

no clue_ but wondering now if IS _ Fazioli Extreme Upgrade is superior choice ( from Complete ) ??


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## fcangia (Jun 13, 2022)

re-peat said:


> Excellent sound.
> 
> Something a bit wrong though, in my opinion anyway, with the dynamic response of the default patch. Mezzforte and forte is great but playing more pianissimo, the instrument not only sounds softer — which is as it should be, obviously— but it sounds A LOT quieter as well, as if someone pulls the volume fader down on top of the instrument's natural decrease in level. Which is not so great.
> 
> ...


Hey! Thank you all for the comments, I had only today the opportunity to read feedback. I'm really glad this is a piano you're liking, I really put all my heart into this library 

Thanks to @pulsedownloader I'll be able to release new and improved patches based on these feedbacks! Of course, I did as much beta testing as I could (almost 10 users for 1 month), but of course, something can go unnoticed.
Actually, I already had to increase the volume of the softer notes in order to get a better balance (the piano had a great dynamic range!), but that's a comment I'll consider for sure since I heard it more than once.


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## fcangia (Jun 13, 2022)

kj.metissage said:


> Sometimes I wish companies would release a perfect alongside an imperfect sounding sample set.
> 
> Like what Imperfect Samples did with their own FAZIOLI library on the Extreme version.


I think, or at least my philosophy is to "build" imperfections afterward on a good quality sample, so you can have control over it. This is why I put in the library a collection of analog hums, player "cough" and "fhhsh" and "crachcrich" and instrument noises that you can calibrate or deactivate 

By the way, I'll work on the dynamic range and little fixes ASAP, stay tuned! Thanks again for the comments, which are truly kind and helpful.


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## kj.metissage (Jun 13, 2022)

Grazie! Thanks for listening, I'm looking forward to it.


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## sostenuto (Jun 13, 2022)

..... seems sufficient 'imperfections' without adding more ?


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## fcangia (Jun 17, 2022)

almost finished working on fixes based on your feedback! I'll release it between today and tomorrow. a little impro


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## CGR (Jun 17, 2022)

fcangia said:


> almost finished working on fixes based on your feedback! I'll release it between today and tomorrow. a little impro



Sounds so alive Flavio! Nice improv too  Beautiful work creating (and so quickly refining) this sampled piano 👍🏼

PS: listening again on headphones. Wow, studio-quality sound. So full and warm but with clarity & definition.


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## sostenuto (Jun 17, 2022)

CGR said:


> Sounds so alive Flavio! Nice improv too  Beautiful work creating (and so quickly refining) this sampled piano 👍🏼
> 
> PS: listening again on headphones. Wow, studio-quality sound. So full and warm but with clarity & definition.


Very nice to see this ! Anxiously awaiting update.


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## kj.metissage (Jun 18, 2022)

Can't wait to put my hands on it!


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## chapbot (Jun 21, 2022)

fcangia said:


> almost finished working on fixes based on your feedback! I'll release it between today and tomorrow. a little impro



Did you release the update? Just checking before I buy it, didn't want to bother to install the old version.


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## snm10 (Jun 22, 2022)

I do not recommend this Xperimenta Project at all. I bought DUE and although it sounds good, it is completely unplayable. An absolute waste of money. I wrote to @fcangia, he offered me a refund for my non-compliance and never did. It's a scam of a company. Don't waste your time and money and look for other companies.


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## SupremeFist (Jun 22, 2022)

snm10 said:


> I do not recommend this Xperimenta Project at all. I bought DUE and although it sounds good, it is completely unplayable. An absolute waste of money. I wrote to @fcangia, he offered me a refund for my non-compliance and never did. It's a scam of a company. Don't waste your time and money and look for other companies.


I and other pianists far better than me on here find it eminently playable. It's too bad you didn't like it but Xperimenta is certainly not a "scam of a company".


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## catibi79 (Jun 22, 2022)

snm10 said:


> I do not recommend this Xperimenta Project at all. I bought DUE and although it sounds good, it is completely unplayable. An absolute waste of money. I wrote to @fcangia, he offered me a refund for my non-compliance and never did. It's a scam of a company. Don't waste your time and money and look for other companies.


This is not true! Xperimenta has a lot of wonderful and very good libraries. It's a small company but i think will produce a lot of very good new products.


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## kj.metissage (Jun 22, 2022)

snm10 said:


> I do not recommend this Xperimenta Project at all. I bought DUE and although it sounds good, it is completely unplayable. An absolute waste of money. I wrote to @fcangia, he offered me a refund for my non-compliance and never did. It's a scam of a company. Don't waste your time and money and look for other companies.


What are you talking about. You didn't like it, fine, it happens.

No need to trash talk and hurt a damn fine sample developer.


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## applegrovebard (Jun 22, 2022)

Have to chip in here. I have bought several of Xperimenta's virtual instruments and have found them excellent and great value. I feel confident in the company's competence and ethos. It's extraordinarily difficult to get hundreds or thousands of piano samples to cohere into a flawless instrument under the fingers. Given the enthusiasm for the Due pianos that I have come across on this forum I doubt that they are unplayable, and the issues that some have reported with the new piano and don't doubt the developer will be very responsive to.


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## pianistje (Jun 22, 2022)

Owner of -Due- and like it very much, but i want more info about the FP2 from owners before buying.


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## catibi79 (Jun 22, 2022)

pianistje said:


> Owner of -Due- and like it very much, but i want more info about the FP2 from owners before buying.


I like it much more FP2 than Due. I have both. But the sound and the possibilities inspiring me much more


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## pianistje (Jun 22, 2022)

catibi79 said:


> I like it much more FP2 than Due. I have both. But the sound and the possibilities inspiring me much more


Ahhh thanks !


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## poly6 (Jun 22, 2022)

Hmm. New member. Just signed up today and this is the first message they posted. And it's not even about the product that is the subject of this thread.


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## SeaDave (Jun 22, 2022)

fcangia said:


> almost finished working on fixes based on your feedback! I'll release it between today and tomorrow. a little impro



I'd be interested in knowing if those who found problems with the initial version think they have been fixed with the update.


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## fcangia (Jun 22, 2022)

I'm sorry about your experience. I always do a refund, even if it is not in our policy, and I'm always really open to feedback - I might guess that people here know how much I care  It probably just didn't arrive, or somehow the case was mistakenly closed.
please write me at [email protected] your e-mail address and I can see how to solve this.

I really hope that your ideas about us will change: I really put all my effort and passion into my libraries. In one year, thanks to the great support of the users, I've been able to improve: remove bugs, beta test *a lot *(with a lot of users and no less than 1 month), hire one professionist and invest in renting bigger studios, better equipment and instruments, and making libraries that now can easily compete with big companies, trying to giving to the market a different - and I hope appreciated - point of view.

What I'm saying, is that of course everyone has a different taste, and I totally understand if someone doesn't like a library. But still, I'm sorry for your opinion about my company, because I really do my best to care as much as I can about each customer as a client and as an artist, and if there's something (except the refund ofc) that I can make to change your opinion, I'll be happy to hear your feedback about it (in private) 

Flavio



snm10 said:


> I do not recommend this Xperimenta Project at all. I bought DUE and although it sounds good, it is completely unplayable. An absolute waste of money. I wrote to @fcangia, he offered me a refund for my non-compliance and never did. It's a scam of a company. Don't waste your time and money and look for other companies.


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## fcangia (Jun 22, 2022)

About the Update, I had to delay the release a bit because I'm collecting other feedback that arrived from a few e-mails, so it took more than expected. But no worries, I've scheduled it for Sunday and the intro price will be extended. Keep tuned to this topic or on our newsletter to be the first to know about the update!

I and Filippo are also really busy on a new long sampling session for a new *great *library - the results are already really promising! Here is a photo from the studio yesterday - ps, is not a cello...or at least _just _a cello


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## Sean Robin (Jun 22, 2022)

fcangia said:


> I always do a refund, even if it is not in our policy, and I'm always really open to feedback


Flavio is indeed a class act... wish more developers had such integrity.


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## Napier Lopez (Jun 23, 2022)

snm10 said:


> I do not recommend this Xperimenta Project at all. I bought DUE and although it sounds good, it is completely unplayable. An absolute waste of money. I wrote to @fcangia, he offered me a refund for my non-compliance and never did. It's a scam of a company. Don't waste your time and money and look for other companies.





fcangia said:


> I'm sorry about your experience. I always do a refund, even if it is not in our policy, and I'm always really open to feedback - I might guess that people here know how much I care  It probably just didn't arrive, or somehow the case was mistakenly closed.
> please write me at [email protected] your e-mail address and I can see how to solve this.
> 
> I really hope that your ideas about us will change: I really put all my effort and passion into my libraries. In one year, thanks to the great support of the users, I've been able to improve: remove bugs, beta test *a lot *(with a lot of users and no less than 1 month), hire one professionist and invest in renting bigger studios, better equipment and instruments, and making libraries that now can easily compete with big companies, trying to giving to the market a different - and I hope appreciated - point of view.
> ...


Just want to echo the positive feedback from others. I actually had some playability issues with the Due despite loving its sound and requested a refund as well, and was refunded right away. Flavio took my feedback in stride as well. That's a real class act considering how few library makers are willing to refund at all. Certainly can't say the same for other libraries I've had issues with.


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## poly6 (Jun 23, 2022)

It's amazing how few sample libraries out there are ever updated/improved after their release. This is another reason why Xperimenta Project is one of my favourite developers. The fact that Flavio is listening to feedback and working on an update based on that feedback speaks to his passion for his libraries.


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## poly6 (Jun 24, 2022)

Heads up. Unless they extend it, TODAY is the last day of the introductory price. Don't hesitate if you're on the fence. Do it!


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## CGR (Jun 24, 2022)

Intro price will be extended because of the update about to be released. See here:






OUT NOW: Xperimenta Pf2 - Piano F


Grazie! Thanks for listening, I'm looking forward to it.



vi-control.net


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## fcangia (Jun 26, 2022)

The update is almost ready, if today there's a "Piano F" user here that wants to have a look at it and give feedback, before the release, just write to me in DM


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## sostenuto (Jun 26, 2022)

fcangia said:


> The update is almost ready, if today there's a "Piano F" user here that wants to have a look at it and give feedback, before the release, just write to me in DM


Great !! May purchase now and participate _ Congrats for this serious Update work !


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## kj.metissage (Jun 26, 2022)

The new update fixes the issues I encountered. Well done, thanks *Flavio*!


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## davinwv (Jun 26, 2022)

Please consider encoding this library for Kontakt Player in the future,@fcangia.

I would gladly pay more for it that way.


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## SupremeFist (Jun 27, 2022)

Is the update released to the wild yet? I checked Pulse earlier today and there was nothing available.


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## pulsedownloader (Jun 27, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> Is the update released to the wild yet? I checked Pulse earlier today and there was nothing available.


You can force it to check for the update by clicking on Preferences then Check for Product Updates.


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## fcangia (Jun 27, 2022)

Piano F Update is out! Check your @pulsedownloader


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## fcangia (Jun 27, 2022)

PF2 Piano F 1.1.3

[Fix] Dynamic Response was having some issues, especially in the quieter range
[Fix] Balanced low-bass frequencies
[New] a custom script for fine-tuning the volume depending on velocity for each key. The new settings give even more flexibility and balance to the instrument
[Fix] Release samples volume was sometimes unbalanced
The main presets were updated, you can find the previous one in the "Presets\1.0" folder.



Thanks to all the beta testers here!


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## pcohen12 (Jun 27, 2022)

Lovely work, @fcangia - softer dynamics are more fluid now, and balance feels much improved!

The "double note" release issue at high velocities also appears to be fixed for all the low notes, _except _for D-1 😅 I hope that's a quick fix?

Thanks again for putting all this effort in. It really is a beautiful instrument!


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## doctoremmet (Jun 28, 2022)




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## SupremeFist (Jun 28, 2022)

pulsedownloader said:


> You can force it to check for the update by clicking on Preferences then Check for Product Updates.


Got it, thanks!


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## CeDur (Jun 28, 2022)

I would certainly like F.. 'Italian grand' in my piano VI collection. So much temptation to try this one!

PS. Really appreciate listening to user feedback and preparing fixes.


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## SeaDave (Jun 28, 2022)

CeDur said:


> I would certainly like F.. 'Italian grand' in my piano VI collection. So much temptation to try this one!
> 
> PS. Really appreciate listening to user feedback and preparing fixes.


You're not the only one who's tempted! This is a good time to pick up VIs, with the summer sales going on. I've already picked up Ravenscroft and Ascend, but I'm seriously considering this one. Very impressed by the responsiveness of Flavio. Just wish I didn't have to buy the full version of Kontakt also.


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## markofjohnson (Jun 28, 2022)

SeaDave said:


> You're not the only one who's tempted! This is a good time to pick up VIs, with the summer sales going on. I've already picked up Ravenscroft and Ascend, but I'm seriously considering this one. Very impressed by the responsiveness of Flavio. Just wish I didn't have to buy the full version of Kontakt also.



Once you get the piano vst habit, you have to get Kontakt so you can try the full range of vsts out there. Get it on sale, you can google how to do that. I think that making a vst work with the free Kontakt costs the vst maker licensing fees, a cost has to be passed on to custiomers. So vsts that need full Kontakt are cheaper than they would be if they were for the player. So consider the price of Kontakt as paid for amortized over a few cheaper vsts.


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## SeaDave (Jun 28, 2022)

markofjohnson said:


> Once you get the piano vst habit, you have to get Kontakt so you can try the full range of vsts out there. Get it on sale, you can google how to do that. I think that making a vst work with the free Kontakt costs the vst maker licensing fees, a cost has to be passed on to custiomers. So vsts that need full Kontakt are cheaper than they would be if they were for the player. So consider the price of Kontakt as paid for amortized over a few cheaper vsts.


Yes, I know I can currently get Kontakt for $125, thanks for pointing that out for the benefit of anyone reading this who doesn't. Also, I'm aware of the additional cost to the developer of making a vst compatible with the free player and I'm not complaining about that. But effectively, if I get Piano F it will cost me $126 + $89=$215 which will be the most I've spent on a vst. I've wasted a lot of money on vsts (seems I already have the habit), so I'm being very careful now about only getting top-notch ones. Based on the response here, Piano F seems like a good fit and I'll probably get it. Maybe wait another day or two to see any additional feedback here and listen to Simeon's review.


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## hajimeaudio (Jun 28, 2022)

Let me ask something to people who purchased products from them. After I purchased Piano F, I did not receive any e-mail for confirmation and receipt. Did you guys get e-mail from them? I am bit afraid that I don't have any record of purchasing because this is not usual. Last week I asked them through their contact form on their website and no response.

[update] They replied me and sent receipt. Thank you so much!


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## kj.metissage (Jun 28, 2022)

hajimeaudio said:


> Let me ask something to people who purchased products from them. After I purchased Piano F, I did not receive any e-mail for confirmation and receipt. Did you guys get e-mail from them? I am bit afraid that I don't have any record of purchasing because this is not usual. Last week I asked them through their contact form on their website and no response.


Yes you should receive a confirmation email. If not I think that a bank account statement should help as proof of purchase.


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## soundslike72 (Jun 28, 2022)

I got a confirmation email from Fastspring after buying it. In the very bottom of it was a link to a more formal looking invoice. Have you checked your spam folder?


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## hajimeaudio (Jun 29, 2022)

Guys, thank you for your advise! I confirmed my bank account but there is no e-mail on spam folder. It might be error caused by their shopping cart system, not by developers. I know developing sample libraries is hard and they must be very busy but I hope they found my comments and contact me.


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## SeaDave (Jun 30, 2022)

Just bought Piano F and Kontakt 6. Seems like I've gone on a vst buying spree.

Question since I'm new to full Kontakt - can I get Piano F to show under the installed libraries on the left hand side? I downloaded via Pulse and then installed. I don't see Piano F in the Native Access app. I know I can load it by copying the nki file into Kontakt but I'd like to see it in the library too.


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## sostenuto (Jun 30, 2022)

Quite off-put as this proceeds. Sooo highly touted early on __ by capable , trusted members. Then notable release issues and delayed update. 
Oops _ nuther COMMERCIAL Announcement violation. 😢


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## CGR (Jun 30, 2022)

SeaDave said:


> Just bought Piano F and Kontakt 6. Seems like I've gone on a vst buying spree.
> 
> Question since I'm new to full Kontakt - can I get Piano F to show under the installed libraries on the left hand side? I downloaded via Pulse and then installed. I don't see Piano F in the Native Access app. I know I can load it by copying the nki file into Kontakt but I'd like to see it in the library too.


The Xperimenta pianos are not encoded for the free Kontakt Player (which would add a considerable cost for the developer, which is reflected in a higher retail price), so therefore they do not show in the Library pane of Kontakt.

Hope you enjoy the piano. It's a real gem in my opinion.


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## SeaDave (Jun 30, 2022)

CGR said:


> The Xperimenta pianos are not encoded for the free Kontakt Player (which would add a considerable cost for the developer, which is reflected in a higher retail price), so therefore they do not show in the Library pane of Kontakt.
> 
> Hope you enjoy the piano. It's a real gem in my opinion.


Thanks, CGR. I was under the mistaken impression that in full Kontakt all libraries would show on the left. No big deal, I can pull up the instrument/preset from the file browser, just don't have a pretty picture.


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## Getsumen (Jun 30, 2022)

SeaDave said:


> Thanks, CGR. I was under the mistaken impression that in full Kontakt all libraries would show on the left. No big deal, I can pull up the instrument/preset from the file browser, just don't have a pretty picture.


Utilize quickload for easier convenience


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## Alfeus Aditya (Jul 1, 2022)

Hi, I am a fan of a sterile, neutral piano sound, without a lot of ringing or metallic sound. I use a lot of ni grandeur or piano sound from the digital keyboard (roland/nord/yamaha) in my studio. 
If I may ask, for those of you who already have piano f and also have a grandeur, noire, or keyscape, what is your impression of piano f?


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## StefanoM (Jul 1, 2022)

SeaDave said:


> Yes, I know I can currently get Kontakt for $125, thanks for pointing that out for the benefit of anyone reading this who doesn't. Also, I'm aware of the additional cost to the developer of making a vst compatible with the free player and I'm not complaining about that. But effectively, if I get Piano F it will cost me $126 + $89=$215 which will be the most I've spent on a vst. I've wasted a lot of money on vsts (seems I already have the habit), so I'm being very careful now about only getting top-notch ones. Based on the response here, Piano F seems like a good fit and I'll probably get it. Maybe wait another day or two to see any additional feedback here and listen to Simeon's review.



126+89 +215...

Yes,

but you have to see this not How the most you have spent on a VST, because in this case you ar not only buy a VST but the KEY to enter into an ECOSYSTEM of Libraries: Piano F Today, tomorrow Will be another library for Kontakt Full.

If Today you get Piano F ad it was for the free Player, it should cost 150$ or more for example, and yes , in this case you would have saved now because you don't take Kontakt Full.

But if next month you take another library for player, it will cost 150$ or more, hey ?
Now you spent more: 300$.. because 150+150 is more...

etc.

So if Piano F is the only library you will buy for Kontakt in your life, ok.. you would have saved if it had been for the player.

but

in the long run you have saved money, because for Kontakt Full there are a LOT of interesting libraries that usually cost less but with great quality and content.


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## jbuhler (Jul 1, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> 126+89 +215...
> 
> Yes,
> 
> ...


I’m not a particular fan of Kontakt but full Kontakt is an incredible value at $125. There is so much free content available as well as a ton of top notch paid content (like Stefano’s libraries) that requires the full version. Then too full Kontakt comes with the factory library which has a lot of interesting content and scripting examples and full Kontakt gives you the ability to tweak many Kontakt libraries and create your own. If I started over acquiring VIs, full Kontakt would definitely be among the first purchases I made even at full price.


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## SeaDave (Jul 1, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I’m not a particular fan of Kontakt but full Kontakt is an incredible value at $125. There is so much free content available as well as a ton of top notch paid content (like Stefano’s libraries) that requires the full version. Then too full Kontakt comes with the factory library which has a lot of interesting content and scripting examples and full Kontakt gives you the ability to tweak many Kontakt libraries and create your own. If I started over acquiring VIs, full Kontakt would definitely be among the first purchases I made even at full price.





StefanoM said:


> 126+89 +215...
> 
> Yes,
> 
> ...


You may have missed my post yesterday, but I did decide to buy full Kontakt and Piano F, so you're preaching to the choir at this point . But good points, thanks.


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## StefanoM (Jul 1, 2022)

SeaDave said:


> You may have missed my post yesterday, but I did decide to buy full Kontakt and Piano F, so you're preaching to the choir at this point . But good points, thanks.


Yes I'm sorry I've missed that.


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## SeaDave (Jul 4, 2022)

Alfeus Aditya said:


> Hi, I am a fan of a sterile, neutral piano sound, without a lot of ringing or metallic sound. I use a lot of ni grandeur or piano sound from the digital keyboard (roland/nord/yamaha) in my studio.
> If I may ask, for those of you who already have piano f and also have a grandeur, noire, or keyscape, what is your impression of piano f?


I don't have those other pianos, but here's a file I generated of the default Piano F at 8 different velocities for the entire keyboard. This should give you a good idea of whether you like the sound. WARNING: Be careful when listening to this, since it goes from ppp to fff - don't turn the volume up too loud and damage your hearing or speakers. This was generated from a program so the velocities for each iteration are constant from note to note. They are: 16,33,49,64,80,96,112,126
View attachment Piano F.mp3


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## sostenuto (Jul 4, 2022)

Soooo ......... is the velocity issue fixed _ totally _ ???


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## SupremeFist (Dec 7, 2022)

Do other users of this beautiful-sounding piano find that the update fixed their dynamics issues completely? I still find that there is a slightly disconcerting drop-off in volume when playing pp, even with the vel-vol setting at minimum.


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## SeaDave (Dec 8, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> Do other users of this beautiful-sounding piano find that the update fixed their dynamics issues completely? I still find that there is a slightly disconcerting drop-off in volume when playing pp, even with the vel-vol setting at minimum.


 I can’t comment on your specific problem since I’m currently away from home and I haven’t played Piano F in months, but you could submit a problem ticket on their website or try sending Flavio a message. However, I haven’t had any luck with either of those.

In early July, I discovered a problem with some irritating noises in many pedal down samples so I messaged Flavio and he responded by saying that he would solve this in the next update in probably less than 1 month. However, it’s now 5 months later and there has been no update. I messaged him again on September 22 but he never responded. Several weeks ago I submitted a problem ticket but other than acknowledging the creation of a ticket, there has been no response.

As far as dynamic issues, earlier in this thread I posted a clip playing all the Piano F notes chromatically from bottom to top at several different dynamic levels. Ideally, when you listen to this you shouldn’t hear any notes stand out a lot in comparison to neighboring notes. However, to my ears there are several notes that are noticeably louder or softer than neighboring notes. I’ve run the same test on Ravenscroft, Garritan CFX, and Ascend - those are much better with few, if any notes that stick out. I wouldn’t say Piano F is awful in this respect, just that it could definitely be improved.

In the last update, there was a new script added to apparently correct some of the original dynamic problems. I asked how this worked and if we could use this ourselves to make adjustments, but got no response. Piano F was released more than 5 months ago, but still there is no user manual or documentation. 

Piano F has a lot of potential, but given it’s current state, I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone considering getting it. If they could fix the dynamics and noises in the pedal down samples it would be a good instrument. But it remains to be seen if they’ll do that.


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