# My main machine (iMac) has bitten the dust. what should I do next?



## prodigalson (Oct 5, 2017)

Hi,

i've been using a 27" iMac (32GB, i5 quad-core) since 2014 as a main machine controlling a PC slave, now my iMac has shit the bed (after just 3 years, thanks Apple!) and I'm trying to figure out what my next move should be.

I thought about building another PC and just going the all-PC route but decided against it so I am looking for a mac as a replacement (even though I really just want to say fuck you to apple). 

Should I...

a) get a Mac Pro? 

b) wait for the iMac Pro coming in Dec.

c) use my current 2014 MacBook Pro (16Gb, i5 quad-core) with a 4K monitor and purchase a new MacBook Pro for mobile use.

d) get something refurbished?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!


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## mac (Oct 5, 2017)

The imac pro looks great but is overkill for music production IMO, what with the GPU specs, so way overpriced (even by Apple standards). A refurb 2015 I7 iMac would be my suggestion for now, then in a year or two look at a refurb imac pro.


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## mac (Oct 5, 2017)

Btw, the new macbook pro is the most unreliable, flakey piece of crap I've ever owned, both the 2016 and the 2017 touchbar models.


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## Quasar (Oct 5, 2017)

Kind of up to you, but I wouldn't invest the kind of money Apple wants in anything I can't take apart, troubleshoot and fix.

@mac: The MBP used to be really good. I have an ancient 2008 (not for DAW, strictly Windows for DAW) that is still humming along wonderfully. But then, in those you could upgrade the RAM, easily swap drives and such...


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## MarcusD (Oct 5, 2017)

Apple went down the drain when Steve Jobs left.


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## Michael Antrum (Oct 5, 2017)

Have you had an estimate for repair ? If it's not economic I'd pick up something 2nd user until the new Mac Pro's are out - but I hear that's going to be next year.

I'm still running a 2009 Mac Pro Cheesegrater which I've had since new - I've stuck 64gb RAM in it, upgraded the video and put in some PCIe sata III cards for a whole bunch of SSD's. It's still an epic bit of kit. I also have a MacBook Pro 13" retina i& with 512SSD - it's been bounced all over the world - and is still running great.

Maybe I've been lucky with Mac hardware.....


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## studioj (Oct 5, 2017)

selling my cheese grater in the classifieds here if you're interested...its a beast of a machine.


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## jcrosby (Oct 5, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> Have you had an estimate for repair ? If it's not economic I'd pick up something 2nd user until the new Mac Pro's are out - but I hear that's going to be next year.
> 
> I'm still running a 2009 Mac Pro Cheesegrater which I've had since new - I've stuck 64gb RAM in it, upgraded the video and put in some PCIe sata III cards for a whole bunch of SSD's. It's still an epic bit of kit. I also have a MacBook Pro 13" retina i& with 512SSD - it's been bounced all over the world - and is still running great.
> 
> Maybe I've been lucky with Mac hardware.....



Yeah, why not see if there's an authorized repair place within driving distance... (Not an Apple store.)
We have one in my area, they're so night and day you'll never go near an Apple Store again without a garlic necklace, a stake and and bucket of holy water. Should be able to at least give you an idea of whether its worth the cost of bringing it back to life. (Also do some reading to see if these models have been failing lately. If they have a design issue you'll just be back in the same boat sooner than later...)



mikeybabes said:


> Have you had an estimate for repair ? If it's not economic I'd pick up something 2nd user until the new Mac Pro's are out - but I hear that's going to be next year.
> 
> I'm still running a 2009 Mac Pro Cheesegrater which I've had since new - I've stuck 64gb RAM in it, upgraded the video and put in some PCIe sata III cards for a whole bunch of SSD's. It's still an epic bit of kit. I also have a MacBook Pro 13" retina i& with 512SSD - it's been bounced all over the world - and is still running great.
> 
> Maybe I've been lucky with Mac hardware.....



My 2009 cheese grater's still runs like a champ. Did the 12-core, upgraded the bays with SSD, a bunch of m.2s on a host card, 64 GB RAM and a UAD Octo. The thing never breaks a sweat and still think these are a much safer bet than anything from the last few years.


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## gpax (Oct 5, 2017)

MarcusD said:


> Apple went down the drain when Steve Jobs left.


You mean, as in when he died?


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## khollister (Oct 5, 2017)

The cheese grater Mac Pros are solid machines as long as you don't have to have the latest and greatest. Their main limitation is no thunderbolt/USB-C, but given the internal expandability, that isnt a big issue normally. The other thing is the SATA ports are not SATA3, but that makes less of a practical difference than you might think for sample purposes. They are getting pretty cheap now as well.


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## jcrosby (Oct 5, 2017)

khollister said:


> The cheese grater Mac Pros are solid machines as long as you don't have to have the latest and greatest. Their main limitation is no thunderbolt/USB-C, but given the internal expandability, that isnt a big issue normally. The other thing is the SATA ports are not SATA3, but that makes less of a practical difference than you might think for sample purposes. They are getting pretty cheap now as well.



Definitely. Thunderbolt's never been a concern for me, but an issue for people with thunderbolt devices... As far as SATA goes you can RAID 0 two or more bays for faster sample I/O. (with solid state I'm not concerned about drive failure the way I was with platter drives. Plus I clone my RAID pair everytime I add a new library in case of failure...)

There are USB-c cards that work in these machines, but don't work with thunderbolt devices... It does make for high bandwidth I/O for external drives though which has been the only thing I've been interested in for backups and archiving / restoring projects...

That said USB 3/3.1 has quirks on these machines... All of the cards seem to interfere with Bluetooth. Exploring workarounds, of which there are a couple... That said, all macs have issues... If it's something like this where I can DIY a fix that's a hell of a lot more appealing to me than being at Apple's mercy. 

I genuinely feel bad for the OP, that's a brutally short lifespan!


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## synthpunk (Oct 5, 2017)

I can't wait until Steve comes out of deep freeze and Apple becomes great again ! Let it go Apple haters 

What died... the display, the unit won't start up ? I bet if you take it/send it to an authorized repair center they can revive it. A good argument for having the full 3 years of Apple Care though.


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## MarcusD (Oct 6, 2017)

gpax said:


> You mean, as in when he died?



Obviously. He resigned because of his health, then sadly passed away.


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## SillyMidOn (Oct 6, 2017)

Going forward, buy a new mac every 3 years, buy the extra 2 years warranty to get 3 years warranty in total, sell the machine after 3 years just before the warranty is about to expire, that way you never end up with an expensive repair bill, and you still get money for your old machine, a fair bit for a 3 year old working model in fact. 

If you have been managing with an iMac, then get another one, the iMac Pro looks overkill, too expensive, and I would not be surprised if the fans on those machine will have to work overtime. The New Mac Pro is just around the corner, so it is a little hard to justify buying one of current old ones, and don't forget that a top of the range Imac is faster than an entry level Mac Pro (plus you have to buy a screen with a mac pro). Benchmarks:

https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks

Hope that helps.


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## prodigalson (Oct 6, 2017)

Thanks for all the feedback guys...



mac said:


> The imac pro looks great but is overkill for music production IMO, what with the GPU specs, so way overpriced (even by Apple standards). A refurb 2015 I7 iMac would be my suggestion for now, then in a year or two look at a refurb imac pro.



Agreed, I haven't seen the prices yet for the iMac Pro and I'm not interested in throwing unnecessary money at Apple. How do you feel about refurbs? I've never done that before, anything I should be concerned about?



studioj said:


> selling my cheese grater in the classifieds here if you're interested...its a beast of a machine.



Thanks, I'll check it out!



synthpunk said:


> What died... the display, the unit won't start up ? I bet if you take it/send it to an authorized repair center they can revive it. A good argument for having the full 3 years of Apple Care though.



I did actually have the full 3 years of AppleCare. It expired in February. It's actually an issue I've had with the machine for a while. it would start up until the chime and then nothing would happen, it wouldn't boot the OS. if you just left it there it would just chime again every 20 mins or so. Clearing PRAM, NVRAM, resetting SMC, nothing worked. Back in January the last time this happened I brought it to the apple store and they said it was an issue with the mechanical part of the fusion drive, they formatted the machine and reinstalled/upgraded the OS and it came back to life, everything was fine for 9 months and I understood the issue to have been rectified. Now the same thing has happened again and I'm furious. Clearly there is an inherent hardware flaw with the machine. Looking into 3rd party repair is a good idea but honestly I just feel like ditching this machine at this point. I have a genius bar appointment today and will see what my options are.



SillyMidOn said:


> Going forward, buy a new mac every 3 years, buy the extra 2 years warranty to get 3 years warranty in total, sell the machine after 3 years just before the warranty is about to expire, that way you never end up with an expensive repair bill, and you still get money for your old machine, a fair bit for a 3 year old working model in fact.



Great idea!


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## mac (Oct 6, 2017)

@prodigalson I always used to avoid them in the past, but the last few years I've started buying them - imacs, ipads etc. If possible, I'd go refurb every time now, never had a problem with them and you get the exact same warranty that you would 'retail'. On that note, I've had problems with non-refurbs a *lot* lately - peripherals, laptops, you name it. Refurbs have been fine. It's almost as if refurbs get an extra check over before they leave the factory.


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## passsacaglia (Oct 6, 2017)

Hope it solves out! Check synthpunk's advice. 

Were you a Logic user or another daw? Go Hackintosh? = ) 

Me too, am kind of worried about the chip and its fans etc in the iMac, I have the late 2015 5k high end. Had it since January, the fans have been on 3 times: 1 when locating all Battery 4 packs, when I had crazy much activity and apps running and loading something, and one more time I can't remember, but it's been completely silent almost 99% of the time.


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## URL (Oct 6, 2017)

mac said:


> Btw, the new macbook pro is the most unreliable, flakey piece of crap I've ever owned, both the 2016 and the 2017 touchbar models.



So there is a lot of problems with 2017 MacBook Pros...?
Cant find that many who complains on the net...about MBP.


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## synthpunk (Oct 6, 2017)

Should have gotten that Fusion drive out the week you got it imo and replaced with an Samsung SSD with 10 year warranty but that should still be doable it may be something you want to look into either doing yourself or getting some solid advice from OWC.



prodigalson said:


> Thanks for all the feedback guys...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Michael Antrum (Oct 6, 2017)

If it's only the internal drive then you should be able to boot it from a USB stick or external drive......

...and a simple drive replacement would be a pretty low cost fix....


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## mac (Oct 6, 2017)

URL said:


> So there is a lot of problems with 2017 MacBook Pros...?
> Cant find that many who complains on the net...about MBP.



Google popping sound, blown speakers, frozen touchbar, keys not working...there are lots of people having problems with the touchbar mbp, both 2016 and 2017 models.


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## mc_deli (Oct 6, 2017)

SillyMidOn said:


> Going forward, buy a new mac every 3 years, buy the extra 2 years warranty to get 3 years warranty in total, sell the machine after 3 years just before the warranty is about to expire, that way you never end up with an expensive repair bill, and you still get money for your old machine, a fair bit for a 3 year old working model in fact.


...or buy from a retailer and get their 3 year warranty for free.
Really no need to give Apple all your cash

(I do not hold shares in Apple).


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## jcrosby (Oct 6, 2017)

prodigalson said:


> Thanks for all the feedback guys...
> 
> Agreed, I haven't seen the prices yet for the iMac Pro and I'm not interested in throwing unnecessary money at Apple. How do you feel about refurbs? I've never done that before, anything I should be concerned about?
> 
> Great idea!



I bought a refurbed macbook pro and it's been awesome. Had it for 3 years or so... It's my portable sketching machine and no complaints so far. (Plus it's upgradable!!)


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## gsilbers (Oct 6, 2017)

the cheesegrater w upgrades cpu still seems like a viable option. 

supposely next year the new mac pros will be revamp and they kept mentioning that it will be very upgradable. so that seems like a positive sign. at the same time, they keep saying no one uses touch screen and insist a little bar on top of the numeric keypad is the future we dont know we want for laptops. soooo... yes, apple decided not to be inovative and just expand the current line up. ive been using apple since 1999 and now it seems very hard to justify anything they do anymore. windows seems okish nowadays but thats it. the alternative is freaking android/ios mini device as every tech company thinks everyone wants. oh rant rant...


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## synthpunk (Oct 6, 2017)

Cheese graters are still great machines if they work for you just keep in mind a few things:

They use quite a bit more power than the more modern machines like the Vader helmet

No Thunderbolt as previously stated

At some point will be bricked by Future OS development



gsilbers said:


> the cheesegrater w upgrades cpu still seems like a viable option.
> 
> supposely next year the new mac pros will be revamp and they kept mentioning that it will be very upgradable. so that seems like a positive sign. at the same time, they keep saying no one uses touch screen and insist a little bar on top of the numeric keypad is the future we dont know we want for laptops. soooo... yes, apple decided not to be inovative and just expand the current line up. ive been using apple since 1999 and now it seems very hard to justify anything they do anymore. windows seems okish nowadays but thats it. the alternative is freaking android/ios mini device as every tech company thinks everyone wants. oh rant rant...


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## prodigalson (Oct 6, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Cheese graters are still great machines if they work for you just keep in mind a few things:
> 
> They use quite a bit more power than the more modern machines like the Vader helmet
> 
> ...



Yeah, i think what I'm going to do is try and make do for now with my current MacBook Pro (2014) and wait to see what they come up with for the new Mac Pro.


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## SillyMidOn (Oct 7, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> ...or buy from a retailer and get their 3 year warranty for free.
> Really no need to give Apple all your cash
> 
> (I do not hold shares in Apple).


Indeed - I didn't specifically say get the Apple added warranty (i.e. Apple Care) - I myself bought my current machine through a retailer who happened to throw in the 3 year warranty for free on a deal they had at the time. Next year my 3 years are up, so I'm due a new one.

(I also do not hold shares in Apple, but I have quite a few Royal Galas in my fridge )


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## jcrosby (Oct 8, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> the cheesegrater w upgrades cpu still seems like a viable option.
> 
> supposely next year the new mac pros will be revamp and they kept mentioning that it will be very upgradable. so that seems like a positive sign. at the same time, they keep saying no one uses touch screen and insist a little bar on top of the numeric keypad is the future we dont know we want for laptops. soooo... yes, apple decided not to be inovative and just expand the current line up. ive been using apple since 1999 and now it seems very hard to justify anything they do anymore. windows seems okish nowadays but thats it. the alternative is freaking android/ios mini device as every tech company thinks everyone wants. oh rant rant...



My concern is price... Considering the price of the IMac Pro, and what the trashcan costed fully loaded when new, I'm assuming it's gonna be a 10k machine by the time it's actually usable. [email protected]?! That!


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## synthnut1 (Oct 8, 2017)

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you......I'm going to put a new WD Black drive back in and go from there.....

A new i7 iMac is not a bad idea either....You can then build some much cheaper PC's as clones....

Mine is an older iMac


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## khollister (Oct 8, 2017)

synthnut1 said:


> I'm pretty much in the same boat as you......I'm going to put a new WD Black drive back in and go from there.....
> 
> A new i7 iMac is not a bad idea either....You can then build some much cheaper PC's as clones....
> 
> Mine is an older iMac



The only potential issue with a current i7 iMac (I specifically mean the 2017 Kabey Lake ones) is fan noise. I have read several comments on Mac forums that the newest iMac's are quite a bit louder than the older ones due to the fan ramping up quicker/longer to cool the hotter running CPU's and GPU's. That might be a show stopper for audio work and I would have the same concern about the iMac Pro. 

All of this is what eventually drove me to a PC for music (still use a MBP for other things) since I was leaning to a Cubase switch anyway (expression maps). If I had stayed on Logic, a used 6.1 MP was in the cards for me although I had reservations on how much of a horsepower improvement it was likely to be over the 6 core cheese grater (5.1 MP) I had been using.

If I was on Logic and had to buy something _today_, I think I might pick up a used 6 core 5.1 cheap and plan to run most of my VI load on a PC slave (or two) and see exactly what the 7.1 MP turns out to be (speed vs cost vs form factor) or a future iMac with Cannonlake 10nm CPU's (which would presumably run cooler).

A lot of the problem right now is Intel - the last couple gen 14nm CPU's are power hogs which creates a problem with Apple trying to fit everything into smaller and smaller packages.

In the OP's case, I would strongly consider getting the iMac repaired as a stopgap until we all see what the next MP, iMac Pro and future iMac's turn out to be and how suitable for audio they are.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 8, 2017)

You're going to throw away a computer because the hard drive broke?!

Let me know what day your trash pickup is - I'll drive by and dumpster dive. 

Shitting the bed means the repair is close enough to the resale value of the machine to make it not worth your bother having it fixed so you can sell it. This is a $325 repair, $250 if you do it yourself, $900 if you have Apple do it.

There are YouTube videos for every repair like this, and better yet instructions that don't force you to sit through an annoying video. 



SillyMidOn said:


> Going forward, buy a new mac every 3 years, buy the extra 2 years warranty to get 3 years warranty in total, sell the machine after 3 years just before the warranty is about to expire



To each his own, but that's a very expensive and wasteful way to go. You're throwing away money on an extended warranty rip-off that you're very unlikely to use, and worse - taking a hit on the 3-year-old machine that's probably still perfectly good.

As I've posted before, I have Macs well over 20 years old in my graveyard that still work perfectly well.


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## synthnut1 (Oct 8, 2017)

Mine is 8 yrs old, and has performed flawlessly until the demise of the HD....The repair is not all that.....A couple hundred bucks and you're good to go....HD and all!!.....What's your address again?...I can use a backup......


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## synthnut1 (Oct 8, 2017)

Khollister.....Was not aware of the noise issue on the new iMac i7...Makes complete sense.....Thanks....Jim


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## prodigalson (Oct 8, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> You're going to throw away a computer because the hard drive broke?!
> 
> Let me know what day your trash pickup is - I'll drive by and dumpster dive.
> 
> ...



Ok everybody calm down. Lol. I never said I was throwing out the computer, at the very least I was going to trade it in to try and get some money for it. 

As an update, I took it to the Apple Store (not an easy task in New York city) and the guy plugged it in and it booted up instantly... I almost punched the computer. He ran some diagnostics and said everything checked out including the HD so I took it all the way home again and now I'm just gonna wait another 10 months until it decides it doesn't want to boot up again for 72 hours straight.


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## SillyMidOn (Oct 9, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> To each his own, but that's a very expensive and wasteful way to go. You're throwing away money on an extended warranty rip-off that you're very unlikely to use, and worse - taking a hit on the 3-year-old machine that's probably still perfectly good.
> 
> As I've posted before, I have Macs well over 20 years old in my graveyard that still work perfectly well.


Not really - I have to base it on my repair costs over the years, and they have been high, and my method works out cheaper for me personally. Every single Mac I have ever owned has broken at some point, maybe I use mine more than others, I don't know, but new logic boards cost a bomb, and you get a lot of money for a 3 year old mac in good condition, it is rather surprising.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 9, 2017)

Well, I post about this all the time (because it's a bee in my bonnet), but you're an extreme extreme extreme out out outlier.

I've bought about 25 Macs over the years and never had a single one that failed between the second and third year I owned it. More than that, I've never had an expensive repair. The only warranty issue I had was one of those leaking liquid-cooled things, and it broke right away.

It's not just AppleCare, it's all extended product warranties. Yes you're likely to have an expensive repair or two during your lifetime that would have been covered by the warranty - although I never have - but over time you'll come out way ahead by not buying the insurance.

Insurance is for things you can't afford to pay out of pocket. Or if it makes you feel safer, no problem; the guy who just won the Nobel Prize in Economics got it for his work showing that people spend money irrationally (although in predictable ways).


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## Symfoniq (Oct 9, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Well, I post about this all the time (because it's a bee in my bonnet), but you're an extreme extreme extreme out out outlier.
> 
> I've bought about 25 Macs over the years and never had a single one that failed between the second and third year I owned it. More than that, I've never had an expensive repair. The only warranty issue I had was one of those leaking liquid-cooled things, and it broke right away.
> 
> ...



I've supported a lot of Macs for a lot of years now, and I'm seeing them fail sooner than they used to, particularly iMacs. I believe the thinner profiles are problematic from a thermal standpoint.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 9, 2017)

That could well be, although AppleCare just extends the warranty so that the machine needs a repair that costs more than $300 or whatever it is (+ opportunity cost of not having the $300 to use for other things, + every other extended warranty you bought and didn't collect on  ) between the second and third years you own it to pay off.

If the failures go up, the price of the insurance will go up. Knowing the odds is the insurance company's business.

But I will admit that I was happy the used MacBook Air I bought had 18 mos. of AppleCare left when I bought it. Those machines are the epitome of non-serviceable - and for their purpose that's totally justified.

iMacs... well, I hope the iMac Pro isn't hard to open and upgrade.


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## Symfoniq (Oct 9, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> iMacs... well, I hope the iMac Pro isn't hard to open and upgrade.



Everything I’ve read indicates the iMac Pro will not be user-serviceable, not even the RAM.

Glad the OP is back up and running.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 9, 2017)

Yeah, I'm not sold on that concept for a high-end machine.

iMacs are beautiful machines. I would have thought $7500 computer users need to do things like upgrading memory and drives, so it would make more sense to trade a little elegance for practicality.

Well, that assumes I'm not misreading the audience. It may just be a status computer that they have in their lineup for the 1% to display, adding cachet to their other models.


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## Symfoniq (Oct 10, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> iMacs are beautiful machines. I would have thought $7500 computer users need to do things like upgrading memory and drives, so it would make more sense to trade a little elegance for practicality.



I completely agree.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Oct 23, 2017)

Go with an internal flash drive and keep the iMac if that's the issue.

Or, consider a loaded 2013-2014 MacBook Pro since you already have a slave.


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