# Is Cinebrass still a viable library?



## Andrew_m (Jan 4, 2017)

I'm looking into purchasing the core library - I know spitfire has their tremendous brass library - how does this one compare? is Core good on its own?


----------



## Per Lichtman (Jan 4, 2017)

Both are good libraries with very different sonic signatures and strengths/weaknesses. I'd suggest taking a careful look through the instruments included in CineBrass CORE vs PRO to see how well it caters to your desired sound. My template for CineBrass uses both.

I'll be detailing a bit more about how the two libraries compare in an upcoming Spitfire review for SoundBytesMag.net and I already wrote one on CineBrass that you can read at http://soundbytesmag.net/cinebrasscompletebundle/


----------



## Andrew_m (Jan 4, 2017)

Per Lichtman said:


> Both are good libraries with very different sonic signatures and strengths/weaknesses. I'd suggest taking a careful look through the instruments included in CineBrass CORE vs PRO to see how well it caters to your desired sound. My template for CineBrass uses both.
> 
> I'll be detailing a bit more about how the two libraries compare in an upcoming Spitfire review for SoundBytesMag.net and I already wrote one on CineBrass that you can read at http://soundbytesmag.net/cinebrasscompletebundle/


Thanks. Good review. I Was loooking for a good soloist library but also needed ensemble brass since the only brass I have at the moment is Albion One. I think I'll be getting the core. 
What about their descant horn? Any opinion on that?


----------



## ClefferNotes (Jan 4, 2017)

Great question, Cinebrass is great! As core stands you will get a lot of mileage out of it, and the sound quality is excellent! I do warn you though, once you have core you will have that slight urge to go for the pro library. If you can afford to, I would definitely go for Pro too! (the chord patch is my go to I love it!) 

In regards to how it compares to Spitfires wonderful brass library... from what I have observed: the biggest difference is the timbre of the instruments, CineBrass has a much brighter tone due to the Sony recording stage having a drier sound, whereas Spitfire Brass sounds beautifully rich and warm due to the tape and Air Studios hall. Truthfully, both Spitfire and CineSamples offer some fantastic options when it comes to brass, you can't go wrong either way


----------



## Per Lichtman (Jan 4, 2017)

I just wanted to give a +1 to the gist of what ClefferNotes said: big difference in tone, etc.

As far as the descant horn, I haven't reviewed that - I've got too much on my plate to be able to take that on for several more issues - so it wouldn't be fair for me to weigh in.


----------



## Andrew_m (Jan 4, 2017)

ClefferNotes said:


> Great question, Cinebrass is great! As core stands you will get a lot of mileage out of it, and the sound quality is excellent! I do warn you though, once you have core you will have that slight urge to go for the pro library. If you can afford to, I would definitely go for Pro too! (the chord patch is my go to I love it!)
> 
> In regards to how it compares to Spitfires wonderful brass library... from what I have observed: the biggest difference is the timbre of the instruments, CineBrass has a much brighter tone due to the Sony recording stage having a drier sound, whereas Spitfire Brass sounds beautifully rich and warm due to the tape and Air Studios hall. Truthfully, both Spitfire and CineSamples offer some fantastic options when it comes to brass, you can't go wrong either way


Thanks. And yes - I already have the urge to purchase pro even before buying it. I have a strong urge to purchase 90% of the libraries I find from 8dio and spitfire - it's definitely a problem


----------



## markleake (Jan 4, 2017)

Both libraries are good. Here's a few questions that I think should play into your decision:

What libraries do you already have?
What kind of music would you be looking to use it for?
What do you need to use in the library (as in specific instruments)?


----------



## markleake (Jan 4, 2017)

Also, I'm curious to see why you think Cinebrass might not be viable?


----------



## Andrew_m (Jan 4, 2017)

markleake said:


> Both libraries are good. Here's a few questions that I think should play into your decision:
> 
> What libraries do you already have?
> What kind of music would you be looking to use it for?
> What do you need to use in the library?


I have Albion One, Anthology strings from 8dio, Olympus choir player edition and frame drums!


----------



## Andrew_m (Jan 4, 2017)

markleake said:


> Also, I'm curious to see why you think Cinebrass might not be viable?


Just because it's rather old now - wondering how their updates were handled. Do they still update?


----------



## Per Lichtman (Jan 4, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> Just because it's rather old now - wondering how their updates were handled. Do they still update?



I wouldn't give that aspect another thought. Think of the library as a current generation offering, especially in regards to the dynamic layer crossfading.


----------



## markleake (Jan 4, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> Just because it's rather old now - wondering how their updates were handled. Do they still update?


Probably half the people on the forum have it and still use it. It's far from being "still viable". 

I know Cinesamples do update their libraries, unlike certain other manufacturers whom I won't mention. But I don't have any of their brass line, so don't know.


----------



## Andrew_m (Jan 4, 2017)

markleake said:


> Probably half the people on the forum have it and still use it. It's far from being "still viable".
> 
> I know Cinesamples do update their libraries, unlike certain other manufacturers whom I won't mention. But I don't have any of their brass line, so don't know.


Well it's on sale right now so I don't see why I shouldn't buy it! Thanks


----------



## markleake (Jan 4, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> I have Albion One, Anthology strings from 8dio, Olympus choir player edition and frame drums!


I think it's important what you intend to use the library for - hence my question. Also, it's important to keep in mind what your goals are. If you are trying to build a set of libraries that will easily work well together, now is the time to set those goals.


----------



## Andrew_m (Jan 4, 2017)

markleake said:


> I think it's important what you intend to use the library for - hence my question. Also, it's important to keep in mind what your goals are. If you are trying to build a set of libraries that will easily work well together, now is the time to set those goals.


That's my goal! I know everyone praises the AIR studio that Spitfire records in , but in terms of affordability, cinebrass is far more justifiable. What holes do you see in my collection of libraries which you think I should address ?


----------



## Per Lichtman (Jan 4, 2017)

In regards to the CineBrass updates, here's at least a few of them (I think there were more, but I grabbed this list of their YouTube).

CineBrass Pro Monster Low Brass Patches (September 2012)
CineBrass Core and Pro Updates (March 2013)
CineBrass Core 1.6 Update (February 2016)

As mentioned, thinking long term will be helpful. Both CineBrass and Spitfire Symphonic Brass have been good about updates so far, both sound great (but very different) and it will depend a lot on what you want from them in the future.

For what it's worth, I have several cues where I layered CineBrass in to add bite or fire to Spitfire Symphonic Brass, so even if you want to use a lot of AIR libraries, CinbeBrass can be used alongside it (with appropriate mixing).


----------



## Smikes77 (Jan 4, 2017)

I now have both Spitfire and Cinebrass Core and Pro. I love the french horns in Cinebrass and they have some cool chord patches and fx. I haven`t had a chance to put the Spitfires in a project yet, but I already love the trumpets in them (I`m just replacing my previous trumpets with the mariachi patch in a western cue I wrote a while back).

To answer your question, they are still sound great to me. 

Rodney should show up soon - he`s got some great opinions about brass libraries.


----------



## Per Lichtman (Jan 4, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> I now have both Spitfire and Cinebrass Core and Pro. I love the french horns in Cinebrass and they have some cool chord patches and fx. I haven`t had a chance to put the Spitfires in a project yet, but I already love the trumpets in them (I`m just replacing my previous trumpets with the mariachi patch in a western cue I wrote a while back).



Don't you find that the highest range on legato/sustains for the solo trumpet in Spitfire Symphonic Brass is a real highlight? I love it when I can put a solo in that range for those samples.


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig (Jan 4, 2017)

Something that's often not mentioned amidst all the - admittedly deserved - praise for Cinebrass, is that it's lacking in the lower dynamics. At full blare it sounds gorgeous but for subtle stuff I've had a hard time taming the epicness.


----------



## Andrew_m (Jan 4, 2017)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Something that's often not mentioned amidst all the - admittedly deserved - praise for Cinebrass, is that it's lacking in the lower dynamics. At full blare it sounds gorgeous but for subtle stuff I've had a hard time taming the epicness.


Even their french horn? How about their soloist patches?


----------



## markleake (Jan 4, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> That's my goal! I know everyone praises the AIR studio that Spitfire records in , but in terms of affordability, cinebrass is far more justifiable. What holes do you see in my collection of libraries which you think I should address ?


Well it seems like brass, woods, and percussion, beyond the mostly ensemble material you already have in Albion One, but you haven't really said what your goal is, so I'm assuming. You are covered well enough for strings for the moment. Now is the moment where you should be thinking long term. Do you want libraries that sit in a particular space? How comfortable are you with the production and engineering aspects? What kind of work flow do you prefer? What do you get frustrated by with your current libraries? Do you see yourself buying multiple libraries to cover just brass? All these should feed into your goal.


----------



## markleake (Jan 4, 2017)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Something that's often not mentioned amidst all the - admittedly deserved - praise for Cinebrass, is that it's lacking in the lower dynamics. At full blare it sounds gorgeous but for subtle stuff I've had a hard time taming the epicness.


This is what I mean by goal. The low dynamics may not matter to Andrew.


----------



## Smikes77 (Jan 4, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> Even their french horn? How about their soloist patches?



I find the french horn great for subtle lines. Maybe I`m wrong.



Per Lichtman said:


> Don't you find that the highest range on legato/sustains for the solo trumpet in Spitfire Symphonic Brass is a real highlight? I love it when I can put a solo in that range for those samples.



If I`m being honest, I haven`t done much yet, but now you got me psyched!


----------



## Andrew_m (Jan 4, 2017)

markleake said:


> Well it seems like brass, woods, and percussion, beyond the mostly ensemble material you already have in Albion One, but you haven't really said what your goal is, so I'm assuming. You are covered well enough for strings for the moment. Now is the moment where you should be thinking long term. Do you want libraries that sit in a particular space? How comfortable are you with the production and engineering aspects? What kind of work flow do you prefer? What do you get frustrated by with your current libraries? Do you see yourself buying multiple libraries to cover just brass? All these should feed into your goal.


I want to capture the whole range. I know that's not justifiable for one library - but I'm still not hearing that 'giant' sound that I'd like from an 'epic' ensemble! At the same time, I'd love a nice solo french horn to accompany softer pieces.

Also thanks for all your help


----------



## markleake (Jan 4, 2017)

One thing to consider also... if you were to get Cinebrass Core and Pro even on sale, that is very similar price to Spitfire, when Spitfire is not on sale. And it's even more if you add the descant horn. Some other good brass options also exist - have you looked at them?

Keep in mind that no one library will do everything great. It's usually an exercise in weeding out the ones that give you the least problems and limitations.


----------



## Per Lichtman (Jan 4, 2017)

In regards to the solo french horn legato patches, in terms of dynamics.

CineBrass Core: Limited dynamic range that actually mainly captures quieter dynamics, not the big brassy fortissimo side.

CineBrass Pro: Much wider dynamic range, with the modwheel range bringing in brassier layers fairly early on (which may be part of the reason people have the above impression). If you keep the modwheel at the lowest setting, it remains a round, mellow tone at a lower dynamic. But the that top "FF" layer goes far beyond what the CineBrass Core or Symphonic Brass aim for.

Spitfire Symphonic Brass: Has a wide dynamic range than CineBrass Core but never opens up to the brassy FF you'll hear in CineBrass Pro. Instead the mellow range extends further, so that top dynamic sounds more like "F" than an "FF", in terms of the brassiness (which can be desirable in a solo line but also stands out less against a tutti).

Also, in terms of the approach to thinking about what one to buy, I'd definitely go through markleake's checklist.


----------



## markleake (Jan 4, 2017)

If you want loud, both Cinesamples and HWB will go there. Spitfire will also, but the tone is different.

I suspect Spitfire will do better at producing a choral sound, as it is warmer, but don't have Cinesamiles to compare to.


----------



## markleake (Jan 4, 2017)

Per Lichtman said:


> CineBrass Pro: Much wider dynamic range, with the modwheel range bringing in brassier layers fairly early on (which may be part of the reason people have the above impression). If you keep the modwheel at the lowest setting, it remains a round, mellow tone at a lower dynamic. But the that top "FF" layer goes far beyond what the CineBrass Core or Symphonic Brass aim for.


Yes, I don't have these personally, but generally I have heard others suggest you really need both CS libs to cover your needs.

Edit: And you are right about Spitfire, they can lack that final dynamic. However they have a separate cuivre articulation that is more brassy.


----------



## Per Lichtman (Jan 4, 2017)

markleake said:


> If you want loud, both Cinesamples and HWB will go there. Spitfire will also, but the tone is different.
> 
> I suspect Spitfire will do better at producing a choral sound, as it is warmer, but don't have Cinesamiles to compare to.



Listening to both CineSamples and Spitfire side by side, I would agree. But when it comes to choral writing don't forget that Berlin Brass offers four different sampled solo horns, three different trumpets, etc., which neither CineSamples nor Spitfire do.


----------



## Per Lichtman (Jan 4, 2017)

markleake said:


> Yes, I don't have these personally, but generally I have heard others suggest you really need both CS libs to cover your needs.



Honestly, if you just want soloists, I would just get PRO. It's much easier to get quieter soloist dynamics out of PRO than it is to emulate a brassy fortissimo with CORE. But for anyone that wants both soloists and ensembles, yeah, you pretty much want both together.


----------



## Per Lichtman (Jan 4, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> If I`m being honest, I haven`t done much yet, but now you got me psyched!



You're in for a treat - it's got more vibrato in that range than either the "romantic vibrato" option for the first trumpet in Berlin Brass or the trumpet sounds in CineBrass, and you get a nice long slide when you play an ascending leap (like an ascending fourth from the G an octave above middle C up to the high C). It's great and would sound right at home in a spaghetti western.


----------



## Smikes77 (Jan 4, 2017)

Per Lichtman said:


> You're in for a treat - it's got more vibrato in that range than either the "romantic vibrato" option for the first trumpet in Berlin Brass or the sounds CineBrass, and you a nice long slide when you play an ascending leap (like an ascending fourth from the G an octave above middle C up to the high C). It's great and would sound right at home in a spaghetti western.



*drools drool drool


----------



## markleake (Jan 4, 2017)

I guess Andrew you haven't really specified some of the goals you are after, but I would suggest you need to do a bit more research and thinking before jumping. You need to decide what you prioritise... something that can easily do loud, soft, or both. Something that is in a particular space (ie. dry or wet or more wet). Something that is easy to use, or gives more control, etc.

Often people use different libs for specific types of track. Have you looked at the other libs out there? Some of them are pretty amazing deals and much cheaper than eg. Cinesamples. It could be a combination of them will get you closer to what you want. Without knowing what you are specially prioritising and working towards, it is hard to recommend.


----------



## Polarity (Jan 4, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> Just because it's rather old now - wondering how their updates were handled. Do they still update?


As sample content probably not.
As performance scripts almost sure they will do, because they just updated CineWinds Core and Tina Guo legato patch with the newest legato perfromance script derived from CineStrings Solos.
Descant Horn came out with it already (if I'm not wrong), so I don't know why they should not updated CineBrass Core and Pro with the new legato scripts.
Uh, well... also Cinestrings is in the list for that I'm sure... together the new articulations mapping page (they put it already in CineWinds Core).


----------



## Polarity (Jan 4, 2017)

I have both CineBrass (Core and Pro)... and if brass from Albion One are similar (for high dynamics) to those of Spitfire Symphonic Brass I can confirm that they can't go loud and brassy as those of CineBrass.
The other day I began to work on some mockups of Star Wars IV - A New Hope to study a bit John Williams orchestrations and while looking for the best brass for them I checked all the brass stuff I have:
Albion One, EWQLSO can't stand (IMO) against CineBrass or NI/Soundiron SB stronger dynamic layers.
Something from Metropolis Ark 1 were almost good at it but not all the sections: I select just one for the starting template, but don't remember what now.
Of ISW Bravura I have only the FXs-Orchestrator volume so I didn't try for now and can't say anything about Bravura at all.

Honestly I want to get Adventure Brass but after having got recently Cinematic Studio Strings I'd like to listen to their forthcoming Brass before buying anything "brassy" else.

I really hope that Cinematic Studio and CineSamples will come out quickly with a performance patch like the one of Adventure Brass because to me it seems the best one for composing parts and tracks: just playing what I have in mind or what flows out my hands improvisations!

As others already, I'd suggest to look around more also to the other brass libraries around,
considering even to wait for Cinematic Studio Brass.
IMO NI/SoundIron is not bad at all (apart the instruments not recorded in place, panorama speaking),
and if you have Komplete it can be purchased almost at 50% of the price.
I got both Ensembles and Solos by second hand, mainly looking for their effect articulations.


----------



## JohnG (Jan 4, 2017)

markleake said:


> Well it seems like brass, woods, and percussion, beyond the mostly ensemble material you already have in Albion One, but you haven't really said what your goal is, so I'm assuming. You are covered well enough for strings for the moment. Now is the moment where you should be thinking long term. Do you want libraries that sit in a particular space? How comfortable are you with the production and engineering aspects? What kind of work flow do you prefer? What do you get frustrated by with your current libraries? Do you see yourself buying multiple libraries to cover just brass? All these should feed into your goal.



^^ this -- I still don't think you've quite answered this question.

I don't think the best way to decide (usually) is price. I like Cinebrass Pro sometimes, but I bought it as a supplement to Hollywood Brass and Spitfire brass. From my perspective, Cinebrass Pro sounds fine, is not out of date, and does sound "big" when you want it to do that. Plus, it's easy to use. All three of those libraries are excellent.

I think Mark is giving you good advice here -- zero in carefully on what you want to achieve and listen very carefully to the demos on either great speakers or great headphones.

[note: I have received free products from East West]


----------



## byzantium (Jan 4, 2017)

Cinebrass Core and Pro are still great libraries. The sound can be absolutely wonderful across many patches. (You can get lower volumes and simulate lower dynamics by using expression C11 as well as modulation CC1, even though it's a bit trickier).

The only thing I find troublesome with Cinejbrass is the playability. It can be tricky and time-consuming, and not flowing / conducive to the process, to build lines with alternate short and long notes - e.g. the shorts may not be the right length (I find the 1/8 notes are often too short and the 1/4 too long), and also it can be tricky to get the volume / dynamic / timbre matching between the longs and shorts. There is a staccato overlay on the legatos but I don't think it works that well.

I really wish Cinesamples would provide updated better playable legato patches that can be used to mix shorts and longs, a la Adventure Brass, and also along the lines of what Spitfire have done I think only recently with their re-packaged SSB. Then Cinebrass would be killer.

I like to use Adventure Brass first because it is so easy to use, but sometimes I come back to Cinebrass even with the factors outlined above because the underlying sound can be great.

Some notes re the sound: to me, there is a little too much hall sound on the mic mixes, and the close mics don't sound good to me, so I think it is hard to get a good-sounding drier sound from cinebrass in my opinion. But if you want the concert hall sound, I think it's great, with no additional reverb added. I know it has a huge amount of fans but to me personally I've never been keen on the Spitfire Air big hall reverb sound. I bought Albion originally and Solo Strings and as a result I've never bought any further Spitfire strings/brass/winds.


----------



## Rodney Money (Jan 4, 2017)

Here's my personal review of CineBrass Core and Pro:

I have both Core and Pro, and if you are thinking about which one to purchase, I would go with Core first since it covers most of what a composer would need for everyday use. The pros of Core are the beautiful trumpet samples, horn ensemble 2 which are great for chords, and horn ensemble 6 which can produce "a rich, epic sound." The cons of Core are the low brass including the trombone ensemble which does not have true legato, are great for loud passages, but are useless for low brass soft chords, and the tuba and bass trombone are mixed together so you can not get a rich, full, warm bass sound that a tuba can produce. The cimbasso is also mixed with the bass trombone and not separate which can be a pro or con depending on who you ask. The solos in Core are both trumpet and horn and can only be used in soft, melodic passages. Both are beautiful but only reach around a mf. The trumpet solo sounds "Private Ryan-like" and the horn solo sounds "Princess Leah-like."

Pro has the inclusion of mutes, special effects, chords, solos, and if you are going for the epic whole-notes in the low brass or horns. The two epic patches are the monster low brass and horn ensemble 12. The monster brass sounds great and can even sound beautiful in low dynamics but does not include true legato and the horn ensemble 12 is perfect for the loud, bright, buzzing tone of the horn but only has short and long articulations. It does include true legato though. In Pro you have trumpet 2 solo, horn 2 solo, trombone solo, and tuba solo which cover all of the basic Cinesamples' articulations. The trumpet 2 solo is too bright for my taste in the low register and almost has a jazz-like quality to the timbre, but can be very affective for layering and adding edgier attacks. The horn solo 2 is also brighter but perhaps more useful than the horn 1 in Core concerning multiple uses and not just warm, slow melodies. The trombone and tuba are excellent covering a very wide range. The trombone solo blends well with other instruments. I like to combine it sometimes with Core's Horn Ensemble 2 for soft passages or even Spitfire's Bones Legato to add a little more punch in the higher dynamics. The tuba can be very warm and mixes well with woodwinds and adds a rich layer when combined with monster brass.

So to me, for high brass you need to go with Core, for low brass you need to go with Pro, but where Cinesamples has always suffered is their trombone ensemble. It can not produce the warm tone in the soft registers and does not contain true legato or glissandos in which trombones are known for. In both libraries there is also no bass trombone solo, cimbasso solo, or flugelhorn solo. Because of their trombones, I had to pick up my very first Spitfire library which was called Bones Volume 1 back in the day. It was a little expensive compared to other brass libraries, but I finally did get my warm, soft, beautiful passages in which I know trombones can produce. Also, the trumpets and horns in Core can not produce a true fff which that layer is only available in Pro.

(Articulated and Higher Dynamics) CineBrass Core Trumpet Ensemble with Spaces Reverb and slight EQ for a brighter sound. You can create the illusion of higher dynamics by layering the eight-note shorts treating them like accents:

(Legato and Lower Dynamics) CineBrass Core Trumpet Ensemble mixed with CineBrass Core Trumpet Solo Legato with Spaces Reverb and no EQ:

"The Most Honest CineBrass Core Demo" with no EQ, additional reverb, and straight out of the box:


----------



## Andrew_m (Jan 4, 2017)

Polarity said:


> I have both CineBrass (Core and Pro)... and if brass from Albion One are similar (for high dynamics) to those of Spitfire Symphonic Brass I can confirm that they can't go loud and brassy as those of CineBrass.
> The other day I began to work on some mockups of Star Wars IV - A New Hope to study a bit John Williams orchestrations and while looking for the best brass for them I checked all the brass stuff I have:
> Albion One, EWQLSO can't stand (IMO) against CineBrass or NI/Soundiron SB stronger dynamic layers.
> Something from Metropolis Ark 1 were almost good at it but not all the sections: I select just one for the starting template, but don't remember what now.
> ...


So how's Native Instruments brass library? It looks like it has an impressive amount of articulations


----------



## Tinesaeriel (Jan 4, 2017)

As an owner of SoudIron/Native Instrument's Symphony Series Brass Ensemble, I can say that the range of articulations is indeed impressive, though not as basically comprehensive as other libraries such as CineBrass or Hollywood Brass. 

The biggest area in which SSBE falters is its short articulations: They only have staccato. Granted, I've made multis with the staccatos overlaid on top of sustains, and it works for fast action passages, but it's not quite the same as a proper dedicated 1/4, 1/2 short like you'll find in CineBrass or, more expensively, Metropolis Ark 1. Then you also have to consider the fact that on your keyboard, the instrument range for SSBE is placed an octave lower than it is for basically every other brass library out there. 

Despite this, the rest of the range of articulations is incredible. I've found I'm frequently making use of the Mutes articulations, especially for the Horns, for old-school suspense tracks, and the sound is really great, especially from a mixing perspective: it's bright but meaty without being muddy. It's very easy to sit these instruments in a mix, especially the low brass sustains. Those tubas and trombones combined - phew! What a sound.


----------



## Zhao Shen (Jan 4, 2017)

Still my workhorse. I own Hollywood Brass Gold, but the one-mic limitation plus the general workflow just don't vibe with me as well. If you had to buy just one brass library right now to keep you afloat, you really can't beat the value of HWB Diamond though. Personally, I'm just waiting for Cinematic Studio Brass so I can decide if it's worth it to upgrade to the newer products.


----------



## Blackster (Jan 5, 2017)

I have CB Core but do not use it that often. I agree that the dynamic range is a bit limited, but I managed to get great results by adding some distortion to the highest velocity layers (I used Decapitator for that). This will raise the emotion you get out of the samples, especially in the low brass. But this little trick can be applied to every brass library ...  

I also used the Bravuria Brass from Impact Soundworks recently and they are also not bad at all! But I have high expectations to the upcoming Cinematic Studio Brass library. If this follows the quality of CSS, this is going to become my main brass lib.


----------



## paulmatthew (Jan 5, 2017)

I just got Bravura Brass and I think it will go hand in hand with Cinebrass Core & Pro. I'm waiting to hear the new Cinematic Studio Brass too!


----------



## ghandizilla (Apr 14, 2017)

CineBrass Core is still great, for me it's (sound-wisely) the same level as Spitfire or OT. It's very playable if you are used to switch between dynamics with the velocity layers (but even being playable, it's also too jumpy to be expressive, that's why Spitfire's performance patches seem very interesting...). Except for the bones, which are deprived of softness. It's nasty or... well... nasty. Having read Rodney's post, I'm currently thinking about BML Bones to complement CB Core. My question being : how does it blend? What mic setup is best suitable for this purpose? Do I have to just use the close settings and then add my own tail?


----------



## Rodney Money (Apr 14, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> CineBrass Core is still great, for me it's (sound-wisely) the same level as Spitfire or OT. It's very playable if you are used to switch between dynamics with the velocity layers (but even being playable, it's also too jumpy to be expressive, that's why Spitfire's performance patches seem very interesting...). Except for the bones, which are deprived of softness. It's nasty or... well... nasty. Having read Rodney's post, I'm currently thinking about BML Bones to complement CB Core. My question being : how does it blend? What mic setup is best suitable for this purpose? Do I have to just use the close settings and then add my own tail?


Spitfire's Bones and CineBrass Trombones can blend very well. Here's 2 tenor trombones from Spitfire and CineBrass Pro trombone solo:


----------



## Rodney Money (Apr 14, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> CineBrass Core is still great, for me it's (sound-wisely) the same level as Spitfire or OT. It's very playable if you are used to switch between dynamics with the velocity layers (but even being playable, it's also too jumpy to be expressive, that's why Spitfire's performance patches seem very interesting...). Except for the bones, which are deprived of softness. It's nasty or... well... nasty. Having read Rodney's post, I'm currently thinking about BML Bones to complement CB Core. My question being : how does it blend? What mic setup is best suitable for this purpose? Do I have to just use the close settings and then add my own tail?


And here's a mixture of the ensemble trombones from each library:


----------



## ghandizilla (Apr 14, 2017)

I feel a bit of "air" in it, but it sounds pretty cohesive to me. I think I'm gonna invest. I recently had a "gentle" work to do where the trombone ensemble of CineBrass showed way too much limitations  Thanks a lot! It is really a question of dynamic range since with CineWinds, when combining CC11 with CC1, I solved a lot of problems because I had enough dynamic ranges at my disposal. CC11 is _not _a workaround for the CineBrass Trombone Ensemble.


----------



## Kony (Apr 14, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> And here's a mixture of the ensemble trombones from each library:



lovely


----------



## ctsai89 (Apr 14, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> I'm looking into purchasing the core library - I know spitfire has their tremendous brass library - how does this one compare? is Core good on its own?




good on its own depends on what you're going for. If you're going to do mockups of late-romantic classical music (or your own music in that kind of style) where trumpet/horn/trombone part writing matters for each single player then the "core" library, along with spitfire isn't too good for it. But both spitfire and the cinebrass core aren't good for different reasons. Spitfire does have solo trumpet, a2, and a6, but the some dynamic levels are lacking in a lot of patches and it's extremely consistent. If you're not so uptight about the whole "solo trumpet has to reproduced only with a solo trumpet patch" then spitfire is definitely good for you as it covers everything as long as you don't mind that sometimes you have to use a6 to pretend it's a3 or a2 to pretend you're mocking up a solo trumpet.

I think cinebrass core and spitfire brass is very good on its own, even the cinesymphony lite is very good on its own if I was making music without the need to have to reproduce the music into a score for players to perform later.


----------



## WindcryMusic (Apr 14, 2017)

I bought the CineBrass bundle (Core, Pro, Descant Horn) just last Thanksgiving, and I've been finding it very useful. I also have Spitfire Symphonic Brass, Metropolis Ark 1, and the NI/Soundiron brass offering (which I hardly use at all anymore ... only when I want one of the effects articulations that only it has). When I bought the Spitfire brass around the beginning of this year, I feared that I might just have relegated CineBrass to uselessness, but what I've been finding since then is that all of these libraries have their place. Spitfire is my favorite for anything soft, warm and/or lyrical, while MA1 is an obvious go-to for the really aggressive stuff. But there is a lot of middle ground in between those two, for dramatic or heroic passages, where I'm finding that CineBrass has been working the best for me. One exception: I have started using Descant Horn in softer passages as well, anytime I need those above-the-treble-staff horn notes, because it is sings out sweet and clear like nothing else does in that range.


----------



## marclawsonmusic (Apr 14, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> I feel a bit of "air" in it, but it sounds pretty cohesive to me. I think I'm gonna invest. I recently had a "gentle" work to do where the trombone ensemble of CineBrass showed way too much limitations  Thanks a lot! It is really a question of dynamic range since with CineWinds, when combining CC11 with CC1, I solved a lot of problems because I had enough dynamic ranges at my disposal. CC11 is _not _a workaround for the CineBrass Trombone Ensemble.



FWIW, the Trombones in the Pro package (solo Trombones) have more of the p-mp dynamics so they are useful when that is needed. I had the same opinion on CineBrass Core when I first got it - e.g. where are my soft trombones?! But they are in Pro and sound really nice - you can play those soft chords with the solo bones.


----------



## ghandizilla (Apr 14, 2017)

So it would be between Spitfire Symphonic Brass and CineBrass Pro. I really like some patches of CB Pro (like the 12 Horn Ensemble, the chords, and the mutes). (The chords sound _awesome_.) (JW in a box style.) Though choice. The main advantage of CB Pro is that it's recorded in the same room. Going to check Mike Patti's walkthrough of CB Pro to hear how it sounds. Great advice, thanks


----------



## galactic orange (Apr 14, 2017)

I'm in a similar position. As an owner of CB Core, I'm wondering whether to add CB Pro or something else. Throw into the mix CSB which will be out soon. Adventure Brass hasn't been out long either. Looking at those three choices (CB Pro, Adventure Brass, and the as-yet-unreleased CSB), I consider if I were to get 2 out of the 3, would CB Pro be one of the two or the one to leave out? Presumably you'd want libraries that have different strengths. But having only CB Core and not CB Pro feels like I'm missing out on a lot of the strengths, especially the solo instruments and mutes from Pro.


----------



## rlw (Apr 14, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> Here's my personal review of CineBrass Core and Pro:
> 
> I have both Core and Pro, and if you are thinking about which one to purchase, I would go with Core first since it covers most of what a composer would need for everyday use. The pros of Core are the beautiful trumpet samples, horn ensemble 2 which are great for chords, and horn ensemble 6 which can produce "a rich, epic sound." The cons of Core are the low brass including the trombone ensemble which does not have true legato, are great for loud passages, but are useless for low brass soft chords, and the tuba and bass trombone are mixed together so you can not get a rich, full, warm bass sound that a tuba can produce. The cimbasso is also mixed with the bass trombone and not separate which can be a pro or con depending on who you ask. The solos in Core are both trumpet and horn and can only be used in soft, melodic passages. Both are beautiful but only reach around a mf. The trumpet solo sounds "Private Ryan-like" and the horn solo sounds "Princess Leah-like."
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing the Fanfare with Score. I was able to see what I liked and did not like about Cine Brass. There is no perfect library that hits all the angles and I may have to add this lib to my collection. There are places where the sound is quite beautiful and then other places that sound synthy. (not meant to slight the mock up skills in any way but it reveals the weak spots of the lib) Thanks again


----------



## Rodney Money (Apr 14, 2017)

rlw said:


> Thanks for sharing the Fanfare with Score. I was able to see what I liked and did not like about Cine Brass. There is no perfect library that hits all the angles and I may have to add this lib to my collection. There are places where the sound is quite beautiful and then other places that sound synthy. (not meant to slight the mock up skills in any way but it reveals the weak spots of the lib) Thanks again


My pleasure, my friend, and I take absolutely no offense especially since it was all done in Finale and not a DAW for a true rendering. Trust me, I can hear a lot of things I would change also, but I simply wrote it for a live college ensemble here.


----------



## byzantium (Apr 14, 2017)

I have Cinebrass Core (CBC), Cinebrass Pro (CBP) and Adventure Brass (AB) 

If you are very happy with the sound (including the bigger space) and workflow of using CB Core, and want more articulations / sounds, get CB Pro. 

If you want more playability and a drier sound, but no new (in fact fewer) instruments / articulations, get AB.

AB is a lot more playable and faster than CB but more limited in sound (probably not quite as 'realistic' as CB) and articulations (in reality you probably end up using just the Adventure patches of the Trumpets, Horns, Trombones and Tuba.) 

Will be interesting to see what CSB will be like - I guess it will be like CSS in terms of articulations and playability. 



galactic orange said:


> I'm in a similar position. As an owner of CB Core, I'm wondering whether to add CB Pro or something else. Throw into the mix CSB which will be out soon. Adventure Brass hasn't been out long either. Looking at those three choices (CB Pro, Adventure Brass, and the as-yet-unreleased CSB), I consider if I were to get 2 out of the 3, would CB Pro be one of the two or the one to leave out? Presumably you'd want libraries that have different strengths. But having only CB Core and not CB Pro feels like I'm missing out on a lot of the strengths, especially the solo instruments and mutes from Pro.


----------



## FinGael (Apr 14, 2017)

Is the Twelve Horn Ensemble (the one being sold separately) still a different version than the one in PRO, or has the PRO patch been updated with the more playable legato engine?


----------



## JohnBMears (Apr 14, 2017)

If you bought PRO today you'd get the old 12 horn ens and a new patch for 12 horn ens with updated legato performance script.


----------



## FinGael (Apr 14, 2017)

JohnBMears said:


> If you bought PRO today you'd get the old 12 horn ens and a new patch for 12 horn ens with updated legato performance script.



Thank you. Actually bought PRO an hour ago


----------



## Frederick Russ (Apr 15, 2017)

CB Basic is fully rounded out by CB Pro. It makes Cinebrass a complete library IMO and the legato patches - particularly the 12 horn patch - are worth the price of admission.

That said, some of the cool programming from Musical Sampling is hard to beat. Musical Sampling makes composing and idea generation more intuitive and easier.

Another point: both CineBrass core & pro are slightly more ambient and glues extremely well to your finishing reverb. Musical Sampling uses a much dryer concept so if you need bigger, simply buss the library to an ambient chain (loose reflections then bussed to sound stage).


----------



## Wunderhorn (Apr 16, 2017)

Cinebrass is my go-to brass library. In my opinion you need both core and pro, a division actually does not make sense to me. You really need all patches in order to create somewhat realistic divisi sections. Overall it is very good, easy to use, sounds inspiring.
However, in one regard it falls short: There is no adequate p or pp layer which makes it very difficult to write very delicate and quiet parts. You might find yourself in need to supplement this lack with patches from different libraries.


----------



## galactic orange (Apr 16, 2017)

Wunderhorn said:


> Cinebrass is my go-to brass library. In my opinion you need both core and pro, a division actually does not make sense to me. You really need all patches in order to create somewhat realistic divisi sections. Overall it is very good, easy to use, sounds inspiring.
> However, in one regard it falls short: There is no adequate p or pp layer which makes it very difficult to write very delicate and quiet parts. You might find yourself in need to supplement this lack with patches from different libraries.



I just added Pro to the Core I had bought previously and I agree with your assessment. Unless you just want a few particular patches, both libraries are necessary. I'm impressed by the solo tuba and trombone in Pro.

One beef I have is that the staccato articulations are not aligned with the sustains in terms of dynamics. (This is the same as in Core). I prefer keyswitching and using CC1 for dynamics for all articulations, rather than a hodgepodge of velocity and CC1. But if the levels don't line up I end up having to mix the two approaches to have a semblance of realtime input capability.

The new 12 horn legato is gorgeous and so fast and playable. My favorite features are the legato speed and intensity ranges. Great for shaping the sound. If they can put that on all the instruments (soonish please!) then the library will be much more competitive on the playability front.

As for the dynamic range, I find that with modulation at minimum you can get a quiet enough sound without that brassy layer. And at the top you definitely hear the power (with a little too much buzz IMO). It's the in-between range from about 20 up to about 60 that I find hard to use. The brassiness comes in too soon and would sound better if it was restricted to the 90-127 range.

Overall, CineBrass Core and Pro are made for bold parts with standout brass. More mellow parts can be created with some patches, but the ability to adjust dynamics is still a little limited for this to be someone's only brass library, which is a shame considering how great it sounds in other aspects. I appreciate the work that Cinesamples are putting in to improve patch playability. Here's hoping that they get those staccatos tamed a bit for more fluid fast part playing.


----------



## galactic orange (Apr 16, 2017)

The Samplemodeling trumpets sound good. The horns sound like they'd fit well in a brass quintet: very agile and expressive, but the tone doesn't sound like what I want a horn to sound like. Maybe the tone is able to be shaped enough within the software or with external plugins that I'd be OK with using it. I just feel like I'd be fighting a losing battle. It's the same thing with Adventure Brass. I love what they've created, but I need a bit more punch and flexibility from my horns. The "Majestic" patches, I think they're called, come pretty close to what I'm looking for in the trumpets and horns though.


----------



## galactic orange (Apr 16, 2017)

anthraxsnax said:


> and then I just opened my test project in reaper(playing around with SM patches, reverbs/ect) and this is me just playing roughly the same phrase(if I had time to practice, I could probably nail the same flavor to the T as the video)
> 
> however, then I play the same theme with different dynamics to show exactly how expressive it is...



Thanks for posting your example. It sounds pretty good. The tonguing sounds like it's capable of making much more realistic and varied parts compared with CB PRO. I'll probably add Adventure Brass or SM Brass to my quickly bloating brass library jungle.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Apr 17, 2017)

It is still my "to go" brass library. Love the tone of the horns, the trumpets can be very piercing, the trombones are good too. Basically I'd say you can't fault it. Don't think anything has surpassed it, but I still use EW Hollywood Brass alongside it - and have yet to really get into Berlin Brass and see where it works for me and doesn't.


----------



## JonSolo (Apr 17, 2017)

I think it works, but I need to see a little better discount. And that DOES happen throughout the year.


----------



## jononotbono (Apr 17, 2017)

I've just put Cinebrass Core into my template and I love it. I'm actually thinking about buying the Pro library as well to complement it. 
I don't think you can have too many Brass libraries. Speaking of which, I am in the process of putting the entirety of Spitfire Symphonic Brass into my template too.


----------



## Rodney Money (Apr 17, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> I've just put Cinebrass Core into my template and I love it. I'm actually thinking about buying the Pro library as well to complement it.
> I don't think you can have too many Brass libraries. Speaking of which, I am in the process of putting the entirety of Spitfire Symphonic Brass into my template too.


Yep, if you have Core, you need Pro.


----------



## jononotbono (Apr 17, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> Yep, if you have Core, you need Pro.



My ignorance with Brass writing is pretty embarrassing at the moment but I am gearing up to starting my studies to begin learning Orchestration next year. Cinebrass Core sounds amazing to my ears but I look forward to learning how to write Brass parts and finally use these libraries to their full potential!


----------



## EwigWanderer (Apr 17, 2017)

Trombone ensemble legato is on it's way.


----------



## Rodney Money (Apr 17, 2017)

EwigWanderer said:


> Trombone ensemble legato is on it's way.


You beat me to it! Just saw it also.


----------



## bozmillar (Apr 17, 2017)

EwigWanderer said:


> Trombone ensemble legato is on it's way.



What? Really? Where did you hear that?


----------



## Rodney Money (Apr 17, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> My ignorance with Brass writing is pretty embarrassing at the moment but I am gearing up to starting my studies to begin learning Orchestration next year. Cinebrass Core sounds amazing to my ears but I look forward to learning how to write Brass parts and finally use these libraries to their full potential!





bozmillar said:


> What? Really? Where did you hear that?


Facebook fan page.


----------



## Vision (Apr 17, 2017)

CB is still my main brass lib, and the new 12 horn patch is wonderful. I AB'd it against the venerable 6 horn East West patch, and was quite pleased. The older core (1.0) patches were a bit more raw in sound. However, the newer patches are more refined imo. I've mixed some of the old with the new in my orchestral template. Solid brass library overall. Looking forward to the new updates.


----------



## byzantium (Apr 17, 2017)

Love those jazz-inspired harmonies, fabulous. From 0.27 to 0.34 sounds like there is some woodwinds in there...? (Or are those just loud but not brassy trumpets?). Thanks.


----------



## Vision (Apr 17, 2017)

byzantium said:


> Love those jazz-inspired harmonies, fabulous. From 0.27 to 0.34 sounds like there is some woodwinds in there...? (Or are those just loud but not brassy trumpets?). Thanks.



Correct.. there is a flute doubling the French Horns. Good ear


----------



## galactic orange (Apr 17, 2017)

Vision said:


> Correct.. there is a flute doubling the French Horns. Good ear



Flute doubled with horns. I've always thought that's a really great sound. Nice work on the track!


----------



## robshrock (Apr 17, 2017)

I actually think the 2nd pass sounded better... more musical. The first pass sounded more "synth-y" to my ear.

Great writing.


----------



## PeterKorcek (Apr 17, 2017)




----------



## Thorsten Meyer (Apr 18, 2017)

bozmillar said:


> What? Really? Where did you hear that?


From FB
For those who've been asking, CineBrass CORE Trombone Ensemble Legato is on its way! This will be a free update for CineBrass CORE users, with all new samples and patches recorded at the MGM Scoring Stage at Sony Pictures Studios. 

Mixing/Chopping is now complete, and we're now moving to scripting and encoding. These patches will have our new Adaptive Legato script which we created for CineStrings SOLO.


----------



## galactic orange (Apr 18, 2017)

Keep bringing in these updated patches. I like what I'm seeing and hearing lately from Cinesamples.

If they've got the horn players in there for a recording session anytime soon, why not record a couple of extra articulations for the Two Horns patches, yeah?


----------



## byzantium (Apr 18, 2017)

Yes great to see new updates coming in, sign of a good developer. I just hope they consolidate the updates into one release (assuming they are all coming relatively soon after each other), and don't generate a full library release (with replicated instruments) every time one of the instruments / articulations is updated (as they did with the 12 horns patch).


----------



## Ian Dorsch (Apr 18, 2017)

robshrock said:


> I actually think the 2nd pass sounded better... more musical. The first pass sounded more "synth-y" to my ear.
> 
> Great writing.



I agree. The 1.0 instruments were a little clunkier to play, but you could achieve really musical results. I still have CB 1.0 tucked away in a subfolder, just in case.


----------



## Vision (Apr 22, 2017)

anthraxsnax said:


> I'm still not happy with the lack of movement in those notes vision... the shorts sound good, but as soon as you keep a rhythm like that with longer notes, it loses it's realism to me... same dynamic patterns tend to stick out when they are performed almost the exact same like 4-5 times in a row... shorts sound great, but as far as longs - how well do they perform with a BC? if they have organic crossfades then i'd say that's a solid enough library, but movement is absolutely key for realism



I originally did this demo 6 years ago... about 2-3 hours of playing with the instruments on the first night. Relax


----------



## JasonAndrews (Apr 22, 2017)

Cinebrass is still my go-to. It's not overly drenched in reverb, sounds very classy to my ears.


----------



## BassTard777 (Jan 18, 2018)

Cinebrass (Core and Pro) is my go-to as well. Especially the "articulation" patches are really handy! Makes playing realistic phrasings (mix of short and long notes, portato, etc. that is always difficult with samples) very easy and convincing - sound is stunning - a little on the dry side, but it's easy to mix it with wet libraries (Spitfire, etc.) if you use some decent reverb (there's also a simple reverb built inside Cinebrass that sounds great too and is easy to to dial in on demand). Solo Horn and Trumpet (legatos) sound so sweet! Perfect if you're trying to achieve "that" good old Hollywood sound (Williams, Goldsmith, etc.). The mix presets are really handy too. Very easy to use - very easy to modify.

All I wish would be some extensions! Maybe a future "Cinebrass Extended" containing:

- Solo Cimbasso (and Cimbasso a2 ?)
- WAGNER TUBA solo (and Wagner tuben ensemble - a4, a6, a8, etc.)
- Bass Trumpet solo
- Contrabass Trombone solo

some updates to patches as "8 Horns": please give us those full "articulation patch" as well on those patches (also on some other patches in CB Core and Pro)

As I said - great library! Makes lot of fun playing - easy to use - great sounding!
Please some little updates and extensions and it's a modern brass library that covers all the possibility for modern brass writing.

Keep up the great work!


----------



## IdealSequenceG (Jan 18, 2018)

I prefer the sound of the Sony Picture Scoring Stage and the mix sound of Dennis Sands, so I use it alone rather than mixing it with other brass libraries.



Cinebrass w/ Cineperc Timpani


----------

