# Science Fiction Chords - Can somebody point me in the right direction



## alphabetgreen (Apr 7, 2009)

This is a new one for me, as I rarely ask questions about harmony. Is it conceit? It could be. Then again I have Walter Piston's 'Harmony' and Vincent Persichetti's '20th Century Harmony'. And whilst they are 'bibles' to me for references and suggestions, I would really have liked Persichetti (or Piston, for that matter) to have a chapter on "Use these sorts of chords if you want to illustrate such and such...". For example, saying that:

_"The Neapolitan 6th sounds really effective if you want a temporary injection of 'angst' or 'tension'"._

or

_"Secondary dominants provide a lot of tonal colour for your harmony without having to actually modulate."_

Now, as a lot of you are film composers that specialise in setting 'visual' environments with your music, I was wondering if you could provide me with any tips on chords and progressions that sound especially effective in a 'Science Fiction' environment. By 'science fiction', I mean the more ambient 'far away' type combinations, as opposed to 'hard-core', 'Star Wars' type themes (not that there's anything wrong with them when there time is right).

I look forward to hearing from you,

Cheers,

Simon


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## madbulk (Apr 7, 2009)

You mean like, 
"He's dead, Jim!" .... E- maj7 ?


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## lux (Apr 7, 2009)

He's dead Jim is more of Fmaj and Bmaj alternating, mate  :mrgreen:

Seriously probably Gerry Goldsmith is the key to science fiction in general. Horner made a great work sometimes too. Harmonies used may vary but mostly you can eaily get those by ear.


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## alphabetgreen (Apr 7, 2009)

madbulk @ Tue 07 Apr said:


> You mean like,
> "He's dead, Jim!" .... E- maj7 ?



lol.... Yeah, sort of. A bit more substance would have been nice, but thanks.


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## alphabetgreen (Apr 7, 2009)

lux @ Tue 07 Apr said:


> He's dead Jim is more of Fmaj and Bmaj alternating, mate  :mrgreen:



tritone polytonality... almost. Nice.


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## lux (Apr 7, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KilBvojsMdw

this piece has a lot of harmonic ideas to get, one of my favourite horner's efforts and one of the best example in scifi scoring. The whole score is.

Btw, Wrath of Khan has lot of inspiration from Miklos Rosza music in my opinion, another magnificient composer that really worths listening to, even if not involved in science fiction.


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## synthetic (Apr 7, 2009)

That's right where my head went, too. F maj to Ab major alternating.  Khhhaaaaannnn!


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## madbulk (Apr 7, 2009)

lux @ Tue Apr 07 said:


> He's dead Jim is more of Fmaj and Bmaj alternating, mate  :mrgreen:
> 
> Seriously probably Gerry Goldsmith is the key to science fiction in general. Horner made a great work sometimes too. Harmonies used may vary but mostly you can eaily get those by ear.



Yeah, my head was kinda thinking of something soap opera-y ridiculous, and "He's Dead Jim" was the only science fiction reference that seemed to be soap opera like.


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## alphabetgreen (Apr 7, 2009)

[quote:356f25b5c8="lux @ Tue 07 Apr, 2009 21:47"]He's dead Jim is more of Fmaj and Bmaj alternating, mate  :mrgreen:

Seriously probably Gerry Goldsmith is the key to science fiction in general. Horner made a great woròë«   œ$¢ë«   œ$£ë«   œ$¤ë«   œ$¥ë«   œ$¦ë«   œ$§ë«   œ$¨ë«   œ$©ë«   œ$ªë«   œ$«ë«   œ$¬ë«   œ$­ë«   œ$®ë«   œ$¯ë«   œ$°ë«   œ$±ë«   œ$²ë«   œ$³ë«   œ$´ë«   œ$µë«   œ$¶ë«   œ$·ë«   œ$¸ë«   œ$¹ë«   œ$ºë«   œ$»ë«   œ$¼ë«   œ$½ë¬   œ$¾ë¬   œ$¿ë¬   œ$Àë¬   œ$Áë¬   œ$Âë¬   œ$Ãë¬   œ$Äë¬   œ$Åë¬   œ$Æë¬   œ$Çë¬   œ$Èë¬   œ$Éë¬   œ$Êë¬   œ$Ëë¬   œ$Ìë¬   œ$Íë¬   œ$Îë¬   œ$Ïë¬   œ$Ðë¬   œ$Ñë¬   œ$Òë¬   œ$Óë¬   œ$Ôë¬   œ$Õë¬   œ$Ö


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## alphabetgreen (Apr 7, 2009)

Frederick Russ @ Wed 08 Apr said:


> Although chords are important, to me its really about how chords interact with one another in time - better known as progressions. I believe most will get better mileage out of also considering the fine tuning of progressions rather than the just chords themselves. Chords - especially the diminished, augmented etc which are somewhat dissonant - usually denote a need to resolve which is where the progression comes in. Some of the better composers will suspend this resolving process so the ear gets attuned to pretty diverse shades of resolution and dissonance without resorting to the expected V to I resolve.
> 
> Seems a lot of Sci Fi via Jerry Goldsmith use rather interesting progressions based on moving around minor triads a minor or major third up or down. Also, playing with the root bass tone in the bass clef changes the basic structure of a regular triad in the treble clef.
> 
> Jack Smalley's book Composing For Film is an excellent resource. I recommend it.



I absolutely agree with the fact that it's all about progressions more than chords, Fred. And just those few examples there about stretching out resolutions is just the sort of thing I'm looking for, especially as I have normally been restricted in the resolution of commonplace suspensions and pre-dominant chords (as you say). But I'll certainly play around with the minor triads 'up and down' technique and altering the anchorage in the bass clef. Thanks.


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## José Herring (Apr 7, 2009)

Frederick Russ @ Tue Apr 07 said:


> Although chords are important, to me its really about how chords interact with one another in time - better known as progressions. I believe most will get better mileage out of also considering the fine tuning of progressions rather than the just chords themselves. Chords - especially the diminished, augmented etc which are somewhat dissonant - usually denote a need to resolve which is where the progression comes in. Some of the better composers will suspend this resolving process so the ear gets attuned to pretty diverse shades of resolution and dissonance without resorting to the expected V to I resolve.
> 
> Seems a lot of Sci Fi via Jerry Goldsmith use rather interesting progressions based on moving around minor triads a minor or major third up or down. Also, playing with the root bass tone in the bass clef changes the basic structure of a regular triad in the treble clef.
> 
> Jack Smalley's book Composing For Film is an excellent resource. I recommend it.



This is very true. The third movement is important.

That "sci fi" sound though doesn't have to be about chords though. A lot of the very characteristic stuff is about just intervals. #5's and stuff. It's hard to explain musically because it's so simple. So I've attached a midi file with some piano stuff to demonstrate.

Excuse the bad piano playing.


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## mducharme (Apr 8, 2009)

The #5 is definately very useful for sci-fi stuff.. I think it's that augmented sound, and of course the 5/#5 movement where it shimmers between major and augmented. I find that is a "happier" space sound.

In fact, if you imagine any augmented triad (say C E G#), and build minor chords using each note of that augmented triad as the root note, these minor chords will end up being in a chromatic mediant relationship with each other (in this example they would be C minor, E minor, and G# minor). This particular minor-triads-by-major-thirds relationship was made famous in Holst's "Neptune" and then used or emulated in multiple science fiction movies after that.

Used high up and lofty with instrumentation such as flutes and strings, like in Neptune, it can give away a very lonely space sound.

Used down low, with big booming brass chords, Darth Vader is coming (this relationship was in fact used in the Imperial march).

You can do the same thing with major chords built on each note of the augmented triad, in which case if the augmented triad is C - E - G# you end up with the chords C major and E major and Ab major. This gives a "happier" space sound. I don't need to list the number of movies that use C major - Ab major 

The orchestration used is also of course important to generating the space sound.


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## mducharme (Apr 8, 2009)

As an aside, an interesting offshoot of the whole talk of augmented chords is the whole tone scale relationship with the augmented chord. In a whole tone scale, any triad of thirds will form an augmented chord.

The whole tone scale itself has also some of the "space-y" qualities but, has been done-to-death for dream sequences with the harp to the point where it is very much associated with that.

There are ways of avoiding this "dream sequence" sound. For instance, at the very beginning of the opening titles to Alien, goldsmith uses this big "string mass", you could call it, which is actually nothing but a whole tone scale. Because he does it in the strings as a simultaneity, stacked minor 7ths, with that large spacing to decrease the dissonance of the entire thing, the end result is eerie, with an obvious space-sound to me, and not at all evocative of the "dream sequence" sound.


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## artsoundz (Apr 8, 2009)

Interesting thread.

Simon- never give up on the ear thing. It may be that alot of stuff is difficult for you to pick up by ear, but it's the single most important tool/gift you could give yourself-bar none. If I were you.I'd move heaven and earth to nail down the ear thing especially since you have all those composition chops.

The thing w/ear training is once you have it you don't lose it and you have something that works without needing an instrument or other references. You have your ears. In this case you would have your answer in minutes just by listening.

But still- a good conversation here. I would talk w/ Kays and get his spin on this subject as he is fully involved w.this genre-i.e- on of his most recent releases is "Alien Raiders". lot's of good,creepy stuff in there.

mducharme- there isn't a more appropriate avatar out there for this thread. cracks me up...: )


for others -that's Barabera Bain-star of "Space 1999" a very fun series ih the late 70's that also starred the great Martin Landau. ooooooooo-the future! 1999!!!


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## alphabetgreen (Apr 8, 2009)

mducharme @ Wed 08 Apr said:


> As an aside, an interesting offshoot of the whole talk of augmented chords is the whole tone scale relationship with the augmented chord. In a whole tone scale, any triad of thirds will form an augmented chord.
> 
> The whole tone scale itself has also some of the "space-y" qualities but, has been done-to-death for dream sequences with the harp to the point where it is very much associated with that.
> 
> There are ways of avoiding this "dream sequence" sound. For instance, at the very beginning of the opening titles to Alien, goldsmith uses this big "string mass", you could call it, which is actually nothing but a whole tone scale. Because he does it in the strings as a simultaneity, stacked minor 7ths, with that large spacing to decrease the dissonance of the entire thing, the end result is eerie, with an obvious space-sound to me, and not at all evocative of the "dream sequence" sound.



Mducharme. The above and your previous quote are extremely valuable to me at this time. I can't thank you enough.


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## alphabetgreen (Apr 8, 2009)

artsoundz @ Wed 08 Apr said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> Simon- never give up on the ear thing. It may be that alot of stuff is difficult for you to pick up by ear, but it's the single most important tool/gift you could give yourself-bar none. If I were you.I'd move heaven and earth to nail down the ear thing especially since you have all those composition chops.
> 
> ...



I thoroughly agree. My aural perception, horizontally speaking is fine (pretty good, in fact), but the vertical aspect, recognising dissonant chords is something I've had to research rather than try and distinguish. If I like, or am intrigued by, for example, the opening of Venus (Holst - The Planets, as if you didn't know), then I'd go and get a copy of the score and analyse it. When I finally managed to get a copy of the example (in Walter Piston's 'Harmony', page 500), it blew me away. I would never have guessed first of all that it was written in a major key. It's in E flat Major and after the four note introduction in unison (starting on F, of all notes), the chord sequence (with a continuous F pedal) is:

*II*9 - *III*7 - *IV*11 - *V*9 - *VI*7 - *VII* (min)

I mean, what sort of a genius must one be to come out with that? I could never have perceived that aurally. Even so Artsoundz, I need to get to grips with it, as you say. It's a shameful shortfall for a composer.


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## alphabetgreen (Apr 8, 2009)

josejherring @ Wed 08 Apr said:


> Frederick Russ @ Tue Apr 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Although chords are important, to me its really about how chords interact with one another in time - better known as progressions. I believe most will get better mileage out of also considering the fine tuning of progressions rather than the just chords themselves. Chords - especially the diminished, augmented etc which are somewhat dissonant - usually denote a need to resolve which is where the progression comes in. Some of the better composers will suspend this resolving process so the ear gets attuned to pretty diverse shades of resolution and dissonance without resorting to the expected V to I resolve.
> ...



I love this forum!!


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## c0mp0ser (Apr 8, 2009)

For scifi, as a composer, there are two cliche approaches.

1) The I, minor V, I progression: C, Gmin, C, Gmin 
That the "star trek" progression and a very handy film music progression in general
Or keep the bass note on G and do this:
Gmin, C/G, Gmin, C/G etc......


2) The old #5 trick. Or do something arpeggiated like C, E, G, G#, G, E, C


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## alphabetgreen (Apr 8, 2009)

Okay guys. I've finally managed to play with all your suggestions and I think I've got a good framework now:

http://www.box.net/shared/qgcrmjf18s

Whaddya think?


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## david robinson (Apr 8, 2009)

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## sbkp (Apr 9, 2009)

I think it's more that the analysis in this case is just barking up the wrong tree. It's trying to apply traditional diatonic theory to something that I think wasn't composed with that in mind.

But yeah, if you can work around moving in thirds (major or minor) [mediant relationships?], with an occasional b5 you can pretty much get the harmony of a whole bunch of soundtracks. 

[eis folks.... progressions in E3, E4, E6...]


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## sbkp (Apr 9, 2009)

Visually speaking...


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## lux (Apr 9, 2009)

madbulk @ Tue Apr 07 said:


> lux @ Tue Apr 07 said:
> 
> 
> > He's dead Jim is more of Fmaj and Bmaj alternating, mate  :mrgreen:
> ...



Hey, more respect dude!! they were hard times for the trekkers... :( 

:mrgreen:


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## paoling (Apr 9, 2009)

In my opinion, mixolidian mode (like major but with the bVII), is a great sci-fi tool for scoring


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## autopilot (Apr 9, 2009)

Funny - I'd have said lydian. But maybe it's because I'm an optimist.


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## clarkcontrol (Apr 9, 2009)

Fredrick and sbkp both allude to how I approach "space" harmony. 

Theory books address 6th chords (et al) as they apply to functional harmony, which is to say that context is important to utilizing said harmonic device. This is why I enjoy polychords/tonality so much. There is not the same history of function associated with it.

Today, contexts are different, to me, because harmonies can now be disembodied from their original context and used in any way you want. The key to making this successful is to slow down the harmonic progression, giving emphasis on just the relationships of two basic sounds, as in the Holst example.

By alternating the two colors there is movement but not in a V-I kind of way. Naturally, he adds extensions (but always in thirds) to establish linear movement, but he stays commited to creating this ethereal back and forth.

The same with anything else. One can get pretty chromatic (think Dbmaj over a F pedal to Cmaj over F pedal over and over real slow, changing R.H. inversions/registers each "cadence") but the exotic qualities might be lost when you throw a traditional harmonic progression in to create a nice I chord.

Clark


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## Angel (Apr 10, 2009)

lux @ Tue Apr 07 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KilBvojsMdw



Thanks for that. Didn't know that StarTrek-Score was Horner's. I have to overthink my attitude towards Horner. That piece ist truely amazing.
Somehow I always missed listening to the StarTrek-Scores. But now I will!

Nice discussion btw. as I have to write a SciFi-track these days.

Angel


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## lux (Apr 10, 2009)

Angel @ Fri Apr 10 said:


> lux @ Tue Apr 07 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KilBvojsMdw
> ...



Well, Horner made star trek II and III (Wrath of khan and Search for Spock) while Jerry Goldsmith made pratically all the remaining Star Trek movies until Nemesis.

yeah, i love Horner's work on ST too. Goldsmith made a great work as well.


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## Stevie (Aug 13, 2010)

Some very useful information in this thread, thanks!


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## Zei (Aug 14, 2010)

I like to use what I call "Static Progressions" for spacey/"out-there" sounds. Basically, imagine taking a Major, Minor, Diminished, Augmented or whathaveyou chord and moving it by a set interval (be it a M3 or b5 or m6... Usually M3 down is a good distance) in the same direction multiple times. I call it "Static" because the chord is static: it's the same chord, just in a different place (then again, I play guitar... the shapes make a ton of difference in perception).

For example, if you were to move a minor chord up/down by m3, you're outlining a diminished chord, but using the Minor chord. This gives a very "alien" sound (in both literality and harmonically). Add a ton of reverb/delay to that and you've got yourself a winner!

An interesting thing to do is move the Diminished chord by M3s. This will, after 5 times, give you every note of the Chromatic scale. It's essentially a 12-tone row, but since (if we started with a Ddim chord) the Ab, F, E and Gb get repeated it's not necessarily atonal. Kind of. On paper, maybe... it'll sound it though!

I also feel that getting that "spacey" sound has a lot more to do with effects than anything else. Add a ton of reverb/delay to any progression, make it drone and it'll sound spacey. Doing this interestingly is the issue!


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