# Considering moving to LA...seeking practical advice



## utopia (Nov 16, 2011)

Ok, a very broad topic but I thought I'd give it a try. I know some of you guys live and work in LA and my questions are primarily addressed to you (though ANY help is greatly appreciated). 
So I've been writing music for films for a few years now (after having spent 3/4 of my life studying classical music) and I have heard (also made research) many times that LA is the place to be at when it comes to pursuing a career in the film industry. I have been putting my demo reel together and have been considering traveling there to see if I can show it to people and try to make some contacts. My main problem is that I do not know a single soul in LA and have absolutely zero experience with the US film industry in general. As of now, I have absolutely no idea on where to go once I arrive in LA (o). I do have courage and the guts though  So I thought I'd ask for some advice from you guys living and working in there on where is it best to start, what would it be better to do, where to go, what to look for etc. What is the basic strategy and how would one go about showing his work to people in there and potentially finding some work? Any word of advice you could give is greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance o-[][]-o


----------



## midphase (Nov 16, 2011)

Might have if you can give more info about yourself...where you from, experience, age, what are you interested in, etc.


----------



## JonFairhurst (Nov 16, 2011)

Where to go? To a friend's house where you are charged no rent.


----------



## gsilbers (Nov 16, 2011)

well, it would like going to china and selling cheap stuff  

there is already a shiat load of composers here and even with a demo reel as good sounding as john williams minus the credits, you wont get anywhere fast. 

takes years of making friends, connections , trust etc. and no film maker wants to just meet random people, you have to be in the same circles, or meet several times in the same type of events and find human connections and not just.. im a filmmaker and you are composer type relationship. takes a lot of time. 

of course its easier the better you are as a composer so the demo reel does work, but 
but if anyone listens to it, it would like 3 seconds.... pop in the cd or go to a site and thats it. 



the way to do it would be by doing an intership at a composers studio. but its not paid and youll have to pay with your money your living expenses which is a lot in LA. 
and if u have to work to pay your living expenses then you wont be able to do an intership. 
i tell u, everywhere you go here, there is people that wanted to be or do stuff and then realized its not for them or luck did not strike. i meet people all the time, in the DMV, rest, shops etc and the small talk goes there and i see others broken dream. 

so for young composer one thing is that if they go to LA is to be someone , or be famous or work as a composer and be in films etc, all that jazz and shiny stars... and im not talking about being famous, just working in the level of one of their heros, then its a rude awakening because the chances are staked up against you. 

but if you let free range destiny take your hand , you might land in a good job doing something else, maybe you are a good people person and know classical cats around so u get hired as the guy who contracts the musicians for a recording. or are an assistant lawyer for music related stuff who a big firm needs folks that know music... who knows whatever destiny takes u in a land where showbiz is huge in more ways that anyone knows. its a big industry where you can land a sweet job, meet a great partner and live happy in LA. (except for traffic and no public transportation. )


----------



## utopia (Nov 16, 2011)

Sure thing...I'm from Moscow, 24 y.o., I've been studying music professionally for the most of my life. I've been composing music for films for maybe 4-5 years. Done a number of documentaries, a feature film, a TV film, some shorts. Also an iPhone game recently I'm interested in trying to break into the US film industry to become a full time film composer and live the dream of doing what I love most.
I do have a friend's apartment to stay at, so that's less of a problem.


----------



## _taylor (Nov 16, 2011)

Hi utopia - shoot me an email. web (at) taylor-long (dot) com


----------



## gsilbers (Nov 16, 2011)

oh, so do u have a us residency or artist visa ?

if not, then forget about it.


----------



## JJP (Nov 16, 2011)

Before I moved to LA, the best advice I received was this:
"Go back home and save up your money. Don't move to LA until you have enough money to come to LA and sit for an entire year without working. That's what's going to happen. You're going to have at least whole year where you can't find any decent work."

I did just that. I then moved to LA just months after my last project won Oscars for best score and best song. And you know what? I couldn't find any decent work for about a year. Thank goodness I had saved my money!

Shortly after arrived, I had one person ask me, "So what have you done?" When I started talking about Oscar-winning score X and worldwide TV ads, he cut me off and said, "That's fine, but what have you done HERE in Los Angeles?" :shock:


----------



## RiffWraith (Nov 16, 2011)

JJP @ Thu Nov 17 said:


> Shortly after arrived, I had one person ask me, "So what have you done?" When I started talking about Oscar-winning score X and worldwide TV ads, he cut me off and said, "That's fine, but what have you done HERE in Los Angeles?" :shock:



Right, because god forbid the rest of the planet should count. :roll:


----------



## givemenoughrope (Nov 16, 2011)

Utopia, 

I'm not trying to derail your thread, but maybe you could tell us a bit about Russian films, film/tv music. The only modern Russian films I've seen are by Aleksei Balabanov, which include the Brother series. I'm also curious about what American/EU films you enjoy or see yourself scoring, etc. 

I was in Moscow for a week last year. Even though there was snow, traffic, the smell, there were more beautiful women per square mile than anywhere I've been, and I live in LA, so...something to consider. We have sunshine here though...


----------



## germancomponist (Nov 16, 2011)

........ An interesting read!


----------



## gsilbers (Nov 16, 2011)

givemenoughrope @ Wed Nov 16 said:


> Utopia,
> 
> I'm not trying to derail your thread, but maybe you could tell us a bit about Russian films, film/tv music. The only modern Russian films I've seen are by Aleksei Balabanov, which include the Brother series. I'm also curious about what American/EU films you enjoy or see yourself scoring, etc.
> 
> I was in Moscow for a week last year. Even though there was snow, traffic, the smell, there were more beautiful women per square mile than anywhere I've been, and I live in LA, so...something to consider. We have sunshine here though...



daywatch and nightwatch are amazing! you have to see those!


----------



## cc64 (Nov 16, 2011)

JJP @ Wed Nov 16 said:


> Shortly after arrived, I had one person ask me, "So what have you done?" When I started talking about Oscar-winning score X and worldwide TV ads, he cut me off and said, "That's fine, but what have you done HERE in Los Angeles?" :shock:



Great post JJP.

I have a friend who was nominated for best song at the oscars 7 or 8 years ago. He actually played the song live at the oscars, won the LA critics award for best score of the year and all that managed to get him in LA were offers to do scores for porn flicks. >8o 

Claude


----------



## givemenoughrope (Nov 16, 2011)

Oh, duh...Yes, I have seen Nightwatch.


----------



## robteehan (Nov 16, 2011)

gsilbers @ Wed Nov 16 said:


> oh, so do u have a us residency or artist visa ?
> 
> if not, then forget about it.



As a Canadian I've wondered about this too. It seems like an insanely difficult thing to try and do, I've heard some people enter on tourist visas (6 months), work illegally, skip to Mexico and back to renew the tourist visa, all while spending 5 figures on immigration lawyers to try and wrangle an artist visa. No thanks, I'll stay in Toronto, at least for now.

You could always do a music degree at UCLA on a student visa, you can work in your field while you study and stay for one year after you graduate, and then hope you can meet and marry an American during that time, and convince her that your love has nothing to do with the green card


----------



## Simplesly (Nov 16, 2011)

robteehan @ Wed Nov 16 said:


> You could always do a music degree at UCLA on a student visa, you can work in your field while you study and stay for one year after you graduate, and then hope you can meet and marry an American during that time, and convince her that your love has nothing to do with the green card



No offense to my alma mater and all, but if you want to really learn film scoring, UCLA is not the place. You probably want that _other_ school... not that you won't get a great conservatory-style music education from UCLA..

edit: 

(I know that wasn't your point :D )


----------



## gsilbers (Nov 16, 2011)

robteehan @ Wed Nov 16 said:


> gsilbers @ Wed Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > oh, so do u have a us residency or artist visa ?
> ...




well, u cant work on a student visa. you could under the table, but not for serous stuff which requires the producers to get a social security number from you. 

doesnt canada have a semi thriving film biz up there? 

and a law that half of productions/ tv shows/movies/radio have to be made in Canada? (or something like it)


----------



## chimuelo (Nov 16, 2011)

I'd suggest going to Mexico and giving up your American citizenship, then crossing back illegally, but don't worry California has sanctuary cities for lawbreakers.
Then you can get subsistance, education money, more benefits than any fool who has to work for a living, and then just do all of your composing and gigging under the table.
WHy work hard and pay to the nose for everything, when so many kind hearted citizens are more than happy to help you make as many babies as you need, educate and feed all of them, etc.
The best place in the world to be a law breaker IMHO.
With all of that free kindness and money you could be overcome by a new feeling of euphoria which might bring new ideas and innovations.


----------



## robteehan (Nov 16, 2011)

> well, u cant work on a student visa. you could under the table, but not for serous stuff which requires the producers to get a social security number from you.
> 
> doesnt canada have a semi thriving film biz up there?
> 
> and a law that half of productions/ tv shows/movies/radio have to be made in Canada? (or something like it)



Actually, you can. It's called Curricular Practical Training. Once you've been in the USA for a year on an F1 student visa, you can work in areas related to your degree, you just need your school to sign off on it, and I think there are restrictions on how many hours you can work. It's how I was able to perform with professional orchestras, legally, while doing my master's degree in Indiana. I got a social security number after getting a job on campus during my first year (which is allowed for international students).

Furthermore you're allowed to stay in the country for a year after your degree finished and work in your area of study. This is called Optional Practical Training.

Anyway this is a long description, but my point is, for a foreign national attempting to move to L.A., if you can get into a university there, you'll have a few years where you can at least get your feet wet in the business, legally, while trying to finagle a way (immigration lawyers?) to stay permanently.

Not that I would necessarily recommend that but I think it COULD be an option, especially for someone still in their early twenties. There is a decent film/music business up here in Canada so I probably won't be leaving any time soon.


----------



## gsilbers (Nov 16, 2011)

chimuelo @ Wed Nov 16 said:


> I'd suggest going to Mexico and giving up your American citizenship, then crossing back illegally, but don't worry California has sanctuary cities for lawbreakers.
> Then you can get subsistance, education money, more benefits than any fool who has to work for a living, and then just do all of your composing and gigging under the table.
> WHy work hard and pay to the nose for everything, when so many kind hearted citizens are more than happy to help you make as many babies as you need, educate and feed all of them, etc.
> The best place in the world to be a law breaker IMHO.
> With all of that free kindness and money you could be overcome by a new feeling of euphoria which might bring new ideas and innovations.



wow.


----------



## utopia (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks for all the input, guys! Greatly appreciated.


> oh, so do u have a us residency or artist visa ?
> if not, then forget about it.


No, not really. I haven't yet looked into that. I was trying to understand whether the whole thing is possible from a professional point of view. I was thinking of traveling on a tourist visa for a short period of time and maybe meeting people to show my portfolio. Then getting some feedback and figuring out if it can work out or not. Then working on the legal matters. 


> I did just that. I then moved to LA just months after my last project won Oscars for best score and best song. And you know what? I couldn't find any decent work for about a year. Thank goodness I had saved my money!


Wow,that's harsh..never would've thought that having won an Oscar one would have such difficulties finding work in LA. Looks like it's a battlefield out there..


> I'm not trying to derail your thread, but maybe you could tell us a bit about Russian films, film/tv music. The only modern Russian films I've seen are by Aleksei Balabanov, which include the Brother series. I'm also curious about what American/EU films you enjoy or see yourself scoring, etc.
> I was in Moscow for a week last year. Even though there was snow, traffic, the smell, there were more beautiful women per square mile than anywhere I've been, and I live in LA, so...something to consider. We have sunshine here though...


I'll be glad to tell what I know..but maybe we could make another thread for this? Thanks for the interest, though  Haven't seen it yet, but this last film by A. Sokurov "Faust" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1437357/) has won the Golden Lion in Venice and has scored top reviews. 
I guess my preferences as far as movies go are quite broad. The main criteria is the quality. I'd be thrilled to work on a Tarkovsky movie as well as say on Inception 8) . The real world, though, is that it's not like you get offered to work on films like these when you're starting out.
I'm trying to figure out, what is the process of showing your work to people in LA like. How do you find them, how do you pursue them to give you a chance,etc. I've been advised by a very famous composer here to contact LA musical agencies (such as http://www.kaufmanagency.net) and send my demo CD's there. Would it be a good thing to do? Are they looking for young talent without a lot of big name credits under their belt? 
Thanks a lot for your help, really appreciate it.
Oh, and next time any of you guys are in Moscow, message me and I'll show you around o-[][]-o.


----------



## John Rodd (Nov 20, 2011)

I understand the desire to move to LA to pursue film scoring....

my short list of advice is:

- never lie to an immigration official

- never be 'out of status' (meaning no current visa when here)

- it is my understanding that it is VERY difficult to immigrate to the USA unless you have $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ or are very famous already. (and I am serious about this)

- ideally you would study film scoring somewhere in Los Angeles (USC? UCLA) and work like mad when here... and hope for the best. That education will be good, no matter where you live.

cheers

John


----------



## Jimbo 88 (Nov 21, 2011)

I recently made a trip out to LA. A fairly famous director (a distant cousin of mine who's mother insisted he speak to me). Told me, "listen, you could have a great demo and say you'll score the job for free, but people here are still going to use the guys that they have worked with in the past. Money and talent is not the issue, getting the job done thru the system out here is".


----------



## Jimbo 88 (Nov 21, 2011)

Another thing, I have a son at USC who is a very talented musician, but he is not majoring in music. He is in TV/film/journalism production side of things. I was bemoaning the fact that he did not want to make a living in music and a very good working film composer said to me, "your son has a much better shot at becoming a working film composer than anyone majoring in music or any composer coming out here looking to break into the business". His reason was the contacts/situations my son was developing with decision makers would open opportunities others just will not have.


----------



## bigdog (Nov 21, 2011)

bring lots of money. Many people don't get anywhere because they couldn't stay long enough - it takes a long time to get anywhere, sometimes years


----------



## choc0thrax (Nov 21, 2011)

Jimbo 88 @ Mon Nov 21 said:


> "your son has a much better shot at becoming a working film composer than anyone majoring in music or any composer coming out here looking to break into the business". His reason was the contacts/situations my son was developing with decision makers would open opportunities others just will not have.



This is exactly true.


----------



## tripit (Nov 21, 2011)

choc0thrax @ Mon Nov 21 said:


> Jimbo 88 @ Mon Nov 21 said:
> 
> 
> > "your son has a much better shot at becoming a working film composer than anyone majoring in music or any composer coming out here looking to break into the business". His reason was the contacts/situations my son was developing with decision makers would open opportunities others just will not have.
> ...



Yep, so true.

Eh, I wasn't going to pipe up in this thread. When it comes to people pursing their dreams, I would rather encourage than discourage. But, I will give you my 2 cents for what is worth, hopefully it will help you somehow. I had others do the same for me when I was starting out, so I'm paying it forward. Mind you, this is relative to LA and only my point of view. 

Honestly, it's going to take a lot more than money to survive for year. When I was starting out I had the advantage of living in LA already. I also had the advantage of being established in the music business, though not scoring. I hung out with Chris Beck at a party one night, right about the time I was thinking of crossing over into scoring as well. I had already landed a TV series, purely by accident, and I was looking for films to do, so I was determined to seek out his advise, which he was so kind to give. 

I asked Chris how long it took him to get established. He said 5 long grueling years of starving and trying to land really crappy shorts, some student films, a few awful ultra low budget features and then finally he landed a small studio feature. Which, at that point, he thought he had finally made it. But even after he got a studio feature, the phone didn't ring. It was another year before he landed another one, and then again, it was another year before things stared picking up. Then he was finally making a decent living. He said it wasn't until he had been at it for 10 years that felt he had really made it. 

That was his answer, 5 to 10 years. I took that to heart.

And from my own personal experience, he was pretty much right. Unless you are one of the very lucky few who manages to land in with remote control or as an assistant to JHN etc. But, even most of those guys (and I know a few of them) had been hacking away at it for years before those opportunities landed. 

Just know that directors and producers in LA don't just hook up with any composer. They use guys they know, guys inside their circles. Unless you just scored the latest hot indie film that everyone is talking about, they aren't going to be looking for you. The film business is extremely shallow. Filmmakers don't like to take risks when it comes to composers. They already have too much to deal with that is miles above in priority. They also want people they know, either through personal relationships or because they already know of your work, i.e you are established. 

If your heart is dead set on coming to LA and making in scoring, be prepared for the long haul. If you want to come to here, do it for 5 years or longer at least. Nothing is going to happen in 1 or 2 years or even much longer. Dedicate a good amount of time and effort into developing relationships. And taking a side route into the business is a really, really smart tactic. Michael Giacchino did exactly that and it was instrumental in his career.


----------



## jleckie (Nov 21, 2011)

chimuelo @ Wed Nov 16 said:


> I'd suggest going to Mexico and giving up your American citizenship, then crossing back illegally, but don't worry California has sanctuary cities for lawbreakers.
> Then you can get subsistance, education money, more benefits than any fool who has to work for a living, and then just do all of your composing and gigging under the table.
> WHy work hard and pay to the nose for everything, when so many kind hearted citizens are more than happy to help you make as many babies as you need, educate and feed all of them, etc.
> The best place in the world to be a law breaker IMHO.
> With all of that free kindness and money you could be overcome by a new feeling of euphoria which might bring new ideas and innovations.



Sorry-but this is worth posting again. Sad but true.


----------



## Jeffrey Peterson (Nov 21, 2011)

I plan to be a Gigalo when I go. That aught to buy me a few months in Bloomington right before Redlands, right next door to White trash and an illegal immigrant with a wife beater.


----------



## utopia (Nov 24, 2011)

lots of information and food for thought....thanks a lot for all the input,guys! really appreciate it


----------

