# CineJazz for CineBrass



## dcoscina (Jun 18, 2011)

Small little thing I did in an hour. Used PT9 so admittedly it's not as developed sonically as I would like. Gotta learn this program better.

http://soundcloud.com/dcoscina/cinejazz-2-higher-res

Enjoy...hopefully.


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## MikeH (Jun 18, 2011)

Very nice Dave!


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## dcoscina (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks Mike- I just uploaded a better res version


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## germancomponist (Jun 18, 2011)

The more I listen to the newest CineBrass demos, the more I like it.

Great work, Dan!


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## jamwerks (Jun 18, 2011)

Cinebrass decidedly has a great tone!

Great piece also. IMO the brass could be much more forward. They sound about 5-7 meters behind the drums. =o


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## dcoscina (Jun 18, 2011)

jamwerks @ Sat Jun 18 said:


> Cinebrass decidedly has a great tone!
> 
> Great piece also. IMO the brass could be much more forward. They sound about 5-7 meters behind the drums. =o



Yeah, I actually used ROOM mics because I initially found the brass too far away but I guess they still need to be closer. This kind of spacing would be good if I used a full orchestra setting I guess..

Thanks for listening though!


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## Alex Temple (Jun 18, 2011)

Cool piece. I'm curious how this would sound with the close mics. I would think if you mixed about 70& close and 30% room it would probably sit best in the mix.

Also, not sure if you had a topic dedicated to it, but I thought the other Herrmann demo you did with Cinebrass sounded great.


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## dannthr (Jun 18, 2011)

Great work, man, but I'm not digging the upright, need a little more human in it.


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## Justus (Jun 19, 2011)

Very nice orchestral jazz scoring!
Inspiring to write more jazzy music o=<


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## bryla (Jun 19, 2011)

Listening to both your Hermann and Silvestri things, this one is certainly not doing Cinebrass a favour I'm sorry to say. The jazz writing is not interesting, the tone doesn't fit and it doesn't have a swing.


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## dcoscina (Jun 19, 2011)

Not all jazz has to swing dude


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## germancomponist (Jun 19, 2011)

dcoscina @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> Not all jazz has to swing dude



+1


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## bryla (Jun 19, 2011)

Not swing like the division of the beat being triplet divided but..... the *snap snap* feel of the playing.

And yeah.... I know nothing about jazz*, so my critique will always be overruled by a +1

*Odd then that I'm in the middle of a tour of several European jazz festivals...


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## dcoscina (Jun 19, 2011)

I studied jazz at York U from guys like Don Thompson, David Mott, and even was lucky to attend a clinic given by Dave Holland. 

Anyhow, this piece was done in like 30 minutes so it definitely needs some revision. I just wish Bryla that you could articulate yourself a little differently as I enjoy good constructive criticism but don't like posts that don't pinpoint what the listener finds wanting but rather just says "this isn't good".


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 19, 2011)

dcoscina @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> I just wish Bryla that you could articulate yourself a little differently as I enjoy good constructive criticism but don't like posts that don't pinpoint what the listener finds wanting but rather just says "this isn't good".



+1


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## bryla (Jun 19, 2011)

As opposed to all the post saying 'this is good' without saying why.

I assume you want the attention of it otherwise you wouldn't do it in 30 minutes and upload if it was any other library.

Maybe that's the reason why the drums have no interest in what the ensemble is playing, the bass is static and the piano is overly redundant.

Going back to brass I won't mention the room tone since this has been done, but the tone of the brass lacks the bottom that I personally like from Nestico recordings among others. This is one of the things that WIVI is doing great IMO.

Taking the first 30 seconds I miss some development orchestrationally in the melody besides unison and half notes. The melody does what the horns are doing in the background, and it actually does it simultaneously. Horns would be better of filling out the melodic holes. Even though you're saying it shouldn't have to swing, the trombone chords really seem obnoxious in the way they rhythmically present themself and don't give a musical reason for the sudden outburst at around 0:10 and 0:18 which every drummer btw would lead up to. and 0:22. In this kind of sparse melody, the rhythmical counterpoint would benefit from a melody too.

from 0:28:
The first outblast of a chord (which btw is the same chord as all the other??) doesn't have that jazz phrasing. I would make it a bit shorter or a whole tenuto. What is the rhythm section doing there? Is it stop-time, is it not?
Well actually the rest of the tune is applicable to my previous comments.



dcoscina @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> I just wish Bryla that you could articulate yourself a little differently as I enjoy good constructive criticism but don't like posts that don't pinpoint what the listener finds wanting but rather just says "this isn't good".


I believe I mentioned all of this in a summarized form in my first reply


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## Pochflyboy (Jun 19, 2011)

bryla @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> *Odd then that I'm in the middle of a tour of several European jazz festivals...




why did you write that so small?


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## bryla (Jun 19, 2011)

Because I thought it has the same relevance as 'Not all jazz has to swing dude'


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## dcoscina (Jun 19, 2011)

Bryla, thank you for detailing what you find lacking in this track. Truthfully, it's nowhere near what it should be as far as production is concerned so your observations are pretty spot on. That's all I was looking for.


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## maraskandi (Jun 19, 2011)

Hmm, must be a full moon.

Do you feel you are getting more comfortable with your new DAW?

I had nice images of being in the film French Connection when I listened to this, so I liked it for that reason in particular.

The elements do sound rather disparate in the mix but that seems to have been analysed with great fervour already.

All in all I look forward to hearing your future pieces because this one was fun!


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## dcoscina (Jun 19, 2011)

maraskandi, yeah, I am probably going to get a book on PT since I'm more of a DP guy. My Herrmann CineBrass demo was done on that and it's about the fastest work flow for a DAW that I have. But I do like Pro Tools 9. I see some similarities. 

As for this track, thanks for the comment. I definitely wanted that '70s 3rd stream jazz orchestra sound more like Schifrin than Doc Severinson so I understand why Bryla, who does seem to know his jazz quite well, would find this a little off. It does need tweaking though...


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## dannthr (Jun 19, 2011)

I think ProTools is a great mixing and recording platform.

I think it really sucks for writing/creating content--why do you want to learn it for that?

I think you would be better off writing in DP and outputting multi-tracks and then mixing/finalizing in PT.

Our goal is to minimize the obstacle of our tools, always, so that the distance between conception and product is as small as possible.


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## maraskandi (Jun 20, 2011)

I think those are wise words, if things are too convoluted you can easily lose it along the way. KISS approach.


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## PasiP (Jun 20, 2011)

maraskandi @ 20.6.2011 said:


> KISS approach.



Keep It Super Simple? :D


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## dcoscina (Jun 20, 2011)

Yeah, definitely. Like John G, I wish DP would release a 64bit version. Most plugs I use now are 64 native. But there are some things I do like about Pro Tools 9. I like how the CC lanes and velocities are easier to see and adjust. DP is very tiny and hard on my myopic eyes.


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