# Blade Runner 2049 Changed Composers To Be More Like The Original



## ryanstrong (Oct 1, 2017)

Finally we get to hear from the director's mouth as to WHY...

http://screenrant.com/blade-runner-2049-fired-composer-zimmer-johannsson-vangelis/

_“The thing I will say is that making movies is a laboratory. It’s an artistic process. You cannot plan things. Jóhann Jóhannsson is one of my favorite composers alive today. He’s a very strong artist. But the movie needed something different, and I needed to go back to something closer to Vangelis. Johan and I decided that I will need to go in another direction—that’s what I will say. I hope I have the chance to work with him again because I think he’s really a fantastic composer.” -Denis Villeneuve_​
Quote from the article.


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## givemenoughrope (Oct 1, 2017)

I mean, if the producers really wanted the film to be more like the original then I have to question their choice of director. Jeremy Saulnier, Derek Cianfrance, the Safdie bothers (!), Park Chan-wook, Bong Joon-ho or even Chris Nolan with one eye open would be way more in line with a young Ridley Scott. I'm trying to think of one truly human, fantastic or frenetic moment in a DV film and I got nothing. I think we'll get a great score and a couple cool scenes but basically BR in name only. I think if we really want that magic in 2017 it will come from a Korean film or Takashi Miike.

EDIT- i would very much love to be wrong btw


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## Mundano (Oct 1, 2017)

pfff... If they wanted something like the original, why not to hire Vangelis?


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## synthpunk (Oct 1, 2017)

Didn't Vangelis have a problem with the rights to his music in Bladerunner 1 and COF ?



Mundano said:


> pfff... If they wanted something like the original, why not to hire Vangelis?


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## givemenoughrope (Oct 1, 2017)

Mundano said:


> pfff... If they wanted something like the original, why not to hire Vangelis?



https://www.dga.org/Craft/DGAQ/All-...2017/Collaborators-Villeneuve-Johannsson.aspx
"*VILLENEUVE:* I was looking for something specific for _Prisoners_—something that would sound like Arvo Pärt"

Right, well that would make sense. Likewise, if you wanted Arvo Pärt, hire Arvo Pärt, don't get someone to do a very close soundalike. These are big budget Hollywood films though. It's just what they do.


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## jtnyc (Oct 1, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Didn't Vangelis have a problem with the rights to his music in Bladerunner 1 and COF ?


Yes he did. If I remember correctly, the actual soundtrack didn't get released until years later. I remember picking up an album that I thought was the soundtrack, but it was a re-done orchestral version. Yuk. I used to go to the midnight showings of BR at the 2nd ave theatre in NYC on many a weekend circa 85'. I used a Sony Walkman to record pieces of the soundtrack so I could listen to it.


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## Replicant (Oct 4, 2017)

Score is up on Spotify, ya'll


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## bryla (Oct 4, 2017)

givemenoughrope said:


> https://www.dga.org/Craft/DGAQ/All-...2017/Collaborators-Villeneuve-Johannsson.aspx
> "*VILLENEUVE:* I was looking for something specific for _Prisoners_—something that would sound like Arvo Pärt"
> 
> Right, well that would make sense. Likewise, if you wanted Arvo Pärt, hire Arvo Pärt, don't get someone to do a very close soundalike. These are big budget Hollywood films though. It's just what they do.


Yeah... just like Stravinsky delivered the score before the movie was shot and said that it was perfect.


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## bryla (Oct 4, 2017)

marksumm said:


> I hope the work he did for the film gets released in some form or another. I loved his score for Arrival and was really looking forward to hearing this one...


You can certainly hope that the material is not dead. Jóhann picks up old unused material and reworks it either for concert or album.


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## Iskra (Oct 4, 2017)

For me, Johansson has a very unique voice. In case the director wanted something closer to the original, he could have hired the original, as said before. The man's not dead.
And if the director wanted something different, why would he hire the most prolific composer that already has his sound on hundreds of movies?
Not that I don't like HZ, but to me it sounds a bit like the producers picked up the phone to say something to Denis.


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## Mundano (Oct 5, 2017)

http://www.nemostudios.co.uk/bladerunner/
Vangelis’ film score for _Blade Runner_


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## givemenoughrope (Oct 5, 2017)

bryla said:


> Yeah... just like Stravinsky delivered the score before the movie was shot and said that it was perfect.


Maybe it was. I'm not sure what your point is. I'm saying that there are cues in Prisoners that are very obvious Fratres and Pari Intervallo soundalikes. He didn't even change the key I think. And it's funny that everyone thinks JJ is so original when the stuff he is mining is so obvious most of the time. Why not either use the original or get AP to write something new. 

And Morricone has written scores before seeing the film and they ended being perfect. I guess I missed your point.


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## bryla (Oct 5, 2017)

givemenoughrope said:


> Maybe it was. I'm not sure what your point is. I'm saying that there are cues in Prisoners that are very obvious Fratres and Pari Intervallo soundalikes. He didn't even change the key I think. And it's funny that everyone thinks JJ is so original when the stuff he is mining is so obvious most of the time. Why not either use the original or get AP to write something new.
> 
> And Morricone has written scores before seeing the film and they ended being perfect. I guess I missed your point.


My point is: Just because Pärt is a great composer doesn't mean he is suited for composing music for a film. Collaborating with a director and all.

I might be a bit biased but I definitely don't see JJ as a soundalike.


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## givemenoughrope (Oct 5, 2017)

bryla said:


> My point is: Just because Pärt is a great composer doesn't mean he is suited for composing music for a film. Collaborating with a director and all.
> 
> I might be a bit biased but I definitely don't see JJ as a soundalike.



Sure...I mean I doubt John Adams would bother with The Matrix trilogy, Don Davis did. But Prisoners was a lower stakes film. Why not try? AP has been temped and needle-dropped in films for decades now.

I'm also biased (for reasons I wouldn't share here) and I do. I think if you are going to mine and be directly influenced by very specific musical artists then at least try hard to make these things your own. I've always thought the same thing about Radiohead and also Bjork to a lesser degree though but I guess they each exist to bring these styles/sounds to the greater public who don't know any better. Not a terrible thing, just watered down. To each their own.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Oct 5, 2017)

bryla said:


> My point is: Just because Pärt is a great composer doesn't mean he is suited for composing music for a film. Collaborating with a director and all.
> 
> I might be a bit biased but I definitely don't see JJ as a soundalike.



You are right, he is certainly not! I hope we can hear some of his music for Blade Runner at some point.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Oct 5, 2017)

I found that on Youtube..


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## Mundano (Oct 6, 2017)

I'm going today to the movie! let's see what is all about...


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## Mundano (Oct 7, 2017)

SPOILERS ALERT! (not so explicit, but..)

I saw the film yesterday

*My* subjective positive impressions:

Really a good film
Soundtrack mission accomplished. Did its work
*My* observations:

Interesting mix between SFX and Soundtrack (in some parts almost unrecognizable)
one only recognizable main theme
lack of melodies
the lack of melodies leads to a very high contrast when the main theme appears (at the beginning, middle and end of film)

at least 1 title written by Vangelis used (I saw it in the end credits but it was too fast, I couldn't read well)
reminiscence of Vangelis: use of Vangelis style synthesizers beds, leads, textures
recognizable Hans Zimmers percussions and Low End
*My* critic:

Soundtrack doesn't fulfilled *my* expectations, though good work because...(see next points)
Zimmer and Wallfisch didn't take risks: in my perspective they composed flat and it let the main theme shines because of lack of other themes with melodies (example: very deep sound design approach, the only recognizable different theme to the main theme was in the "make love" scene with the bass sequencer...)
Filmmakers and Composers lost the universe created in the *first* film, and created a new darker universe in the present one (it works, but we are talking about Blade Runner). Reasons:
Soundtrack miss the aesthetic of the first film (for example the nostalgic aspect, they miss also the "orient" aspect that influenced the soundtrack of Vangelis in the first film). Its alright, this is another film, must not be exactly like the first one, but conserve some critical elements
the use of explicit violence (shot in the head..., knives, genocide -multi assassination scene-, etc.) causes darker menace ambient (the first film causes this also without being so brutal)

positive critic: The credit's music was the best of all, it showed a real new proposal. In my view they could have composed this way for the whole film, but they took no risks

*My* conclusions & speculations:

I think composers HZ & W were in a rush after JJ being fired, they took NO RISKS and did their work for the film to work well
Elements of the composers are recognizable, but they didn't *either* done a recapitulation of the first film aesthetic (only Vangelis theme and synths basses) *or* propose one step ahead score for the new film (I mean, something new, risky, that show a development in the music (like in the end credits), because "music" was very scarce to hear...)
*My* statement:

the art of criticizing is very easy, I think the composers did the job well, I can't imagine if I were in their shoes with approaching time to release of the film. Any way, I wish the director had choosen Vangelis...


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## Vastman (Oct 12, 2017)

V is a pain in the ass... that's why he wasn't chosen. I think Hz/W did an amazing job and worked in powerful homage to V's initial work, in both bits & pieces as well as huge swarms evoking Vness at appropriate times.

Having downloaded the Google red version and listening all evening after seeing the movie, I'm very pleased with how the themes, thunderous drama, and delicate soundscapes flowed together. A few rough edges in the most rawest mega blasts, but quite a nice marriage of Foley, ambient, environments and synthetic listening blistering sounds, all combining to help pierce the veil we shroud ourselves in.

Loved every moment...deserves many private 4k OLED emersings...should have my surround genelec system fully tied in early next year...and I'll enjoy THIS far more than the original...as the story was far deaper, renderings of our near term future are spot on, ecologically, and modern sound design took V's emotional bits to a much grander level and all together this is truly an emersive experience

They did well...Vness was everywhere to me...bigger, badder, sicker, sadder, and WAY MORE emotional and emersive than the origionals. Thanks to those who can wield todays tools to sweep me away!


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## Vastman (Oct 12, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I found that on Youtube..



A reason to have YouTube Red... listening on an endless loop since seeing the movie!

Folks complaining that they should have got V for the movie are assuming that this was possible on terms that were OK for all...


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## Kyle Preston (Oct 12, 2017)

> Reading between the lines of Villeneuve’s comments, it seems Johannsson was simply unwilling or unable to deliver a score that matched the director’s ideas of what Blade Runner 2049 should sound like.



i.e. “pulling information directly out of my asshole”.


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## StephenForsyth (Oct 15, 2017)

I do hope a bit of Johan Johannson's material resurfaces. "Arrival" is not very fun to listen to in soundtrack form (there is a 4 minute cue that is basically just a drone) but BR2049 actually piqued my interest because I thought his approach to such a universe would be unique. 

I know he's still releasing solo albums, maybe some of it will appear there, depends on all the legal mumbo jumbo etc.


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