# CSS/ CSB Hanging Notes



## Land of Missing Parts (May 12, 2019)

Cinematic Studio Strings and Brass are my go-tos and I love them to death. But I get so many hanging notes and particularly the CSB hanging notes can be earsplitting.

I wonder if there is something wrong about the way that I'm using them that's causing it.

I'm running in Logic X, and I typically use articulation sets that switch using cc58. Instances are in Kontakt 5.8.1, sometimes running in Vienna Ensemble Pro (same computer), sometimes loaded directly into Logic. My disks read pretty fast so I don't think it's a disk drive issue.

One possible problem is running multitimbral instruments that route the midi info of several instruments through a single articulation set. Maybe there's some kind of midi traffic jam?

The more likely scenario is that I'm just getting CPU spikes, as Logic is prone to this. But I thought maybe running in VEP would distribute the CPU load, and I still get hanging notes in VEP fairly often.

I don't see people mentioning hanging notes in CSS and CSB often, so I wonder if it's not a common issue people are running into?


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## Brian Nowak (May 12, 2019)

Oh no. It's often complained about and is apparently a bigger problem in Logic Pro X than other DAWs. I love both libraries too, but get tons of hanging notes once project sizes get bigger. I'm on 10.4.3 and it's a constant problem. Trailer music guys complain about CSS hanging notes all the time. 

I "think" having MIDI chase on maybe makes it worse. It's particularly bad in legato passages, but it's a known issue with marcato as well. I'm just quick on pushing play/stop again to mute it, or I stop and move the playhead to a different position and that can help silence it as well. It would be nice if Alex and the Logic team could get to the bottom of what exactly is causing the problem to happen. It would make things a lot more pleasant to work with.


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## Bluemount Score (May 12, 2019)

Hm, I only had that problem very few times with CSS. Other libraries were much worse for me. So in FL Studio it seems to work better.


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## Carson (May 12, 2019)

I absolutely love CSSS. But I’m often terrified to use it in shows. It’s the only library I’ve had problems with hanging notes. I’ve taken a chance in two shows so far (MainStage but it’s hung in Logic for me too). It hasn’t hung in performance, but it has during programming, a rehearsal or two.

It’s one of the reasons I purchased SSS on WL recently.


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## marclawsonmusic (May 12, 2019)

I will say I have noticed the same thing in Logic X, but have chalked it up to the delay compensation built into their legato engine. At least, I think I have only noticed it on legato patches - only during editing but not during playback.


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## Robert_G (May 12, 2019)

Does this happen to anyone in cubase?


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## ricoderks (May 12, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Does this happen to anyone in cubase?


Unfortunately yes... All three libraries. (Not the piano for obvious reasons)


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## Robert_G (May 12, 2019)

ricoderks said:


> Unfortunately yes... All three libraries. (Not the piano for obvious reasons)



Is this i minor thing? 
Im just a bit confused since everyone rants and raves that this is the best string library out there.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 12, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Im just a bit confused since everyone rants and raves that this is the best string library out there.


To keep this thread on track as more of a troubleshooting discussion, I'd rather just hear whether people have found ways to minimize the hanging notes, and what people's experience with them has been.

Thanks.


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## Carson (May 12, 2019)

The library sounds and plays absolutely beautifully. In productions it’s practically indistinguishable from live players. 

That being said, it does scare me! I personally can’t seem to replicate it. I’ve tried stress testing palming keys, double octave scales, and just seems to be random. 

But - something that SEEMS to help (mind you this is in MainStage, live performance) is cycling through the patches to get by the initial CPU spike _and_ giving the mod wheel a little jiggle. Ever since I’ve stuck to that routine, haven’t seemed to have a hang.


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## Hywel (May 12, 2019)

Mac and Cubase user here. I’ve not experienced any problem such as this. Tends to be my main string and brass so used quite a bit.


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## The Darris (May 12, 2019)

No issues over here as a Cubase guy but I have those issues in other libraries so I feel your frustration. Have you tried setting up the patches for a slightly different workflow than the one you are using to see if that effects change? It can suck to not be able to setup a library to do what you want it to, especially since the library is designed to work in that way. With that said, i know Logic X has problems concerning Kontakt and how certain libraries function. If you are able to find a work around, this may be insightful to Alex so he can work on a proper fix. I don't know if you've reached out to him yet with your issues and have gotten a response but by and large, his support is usually top notch. 

Good luck,

C


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## ReelToLogic (May 12, 2019)

I'm glad to see this thread, because I get hung notes all the time with CSS (using Logic Pro X) and have always wondered if was just me, or if others also had the problem. I don't use articulation sets like LotMP, and I don't have the problem with other sound libraries. I love CSS and still use it a lot, so I'd also love to hear if others have a way to minimize or prevent this....maybe Alex W will chime in if he's on VI-Control?


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 12, 2019)

marclawsonmusic said:


> but have chalked it up to the delay compensation built into their legato engine.





Brian Nowak said:


> I "think" having MIDI chase on maybe makes it worse. It's particularly bad in legato passages, but it's a known issue with marcato as well.


Excellent points.

1. I'd have to check, but I think I don't get hanging notes with CSS classic legato, only the delayed kind (i.e. standard legato or advanced legato). I typically use CSS classic legato when I am playing in, and switch to advanced legato with NoamL's Thanos script to retain my timings.

2. I believe I get hanging notes with legato (i.e. connected sustain notes) and marcato, which is to say only the articulations with transitions.

3. I do keep midi chase on nearly all the time (A setting in Logic X).


The Darris said:


> If you are able to find a work around, this may be insightful to Alex so he can work on a proper fix.


I haven't yet communicated with this about Alex, but I probably will soon. I will post updates if I learn anything that might be helpful to other folks.


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## Brian Nowak (May 12, 2019)

As far as I know, workflow matters very little here. Using them as multi instruments or track-per-articulation doesn't really matter. Long notes tend to hang. Using keyswitches vs articulation maps doesn't seem to effect the issue. Thanos doesn't seem to effect its occurrence. 

The only sure thing across all the people I have talked to with the issue is that as the project gets larger (longer and with more tracks) notes start to hang more. 

In my situation, I tend to notice it more if I start playing from busy passages or when I'm using MIDI chase and I start playing or stop in the middle of a long note. But it is quite random. Sometimes it will do it every time. Sometimes it will do it once and then not again. I just try to start and stop at points where there are clear gaps in notes. 

For what it's worth, cinebrass also hangs a lot, and I do get hanging notes in the Arks as well. But CSS/CSSS/CSB are by far the worst offenders.


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## averystemmler (May 12, 2019)

I haven't gotten stuck notes in a project in ages. The last time I did, it was in Cubase, and it had to do with having too many midi devices sending data at once. I expect the note-offs got lost in the flurry.

Weirdly, connecting everything to MIDI-OX and sending it all to Cubase over one interapplication midi port (I use loopbe30) solved it. I've primarily moved on to Reaper, but I still use MIDI-OX for other conveniences, and everything remains just dandy.

I use CSS, CSSS, and CSB on a slave via VE Pro, and a bunch of other stuff locally. Only 32GB ram on the slave, CSx libraries are on an SSD, Kontakt buffer size set to the lowest. I have all three mic positions loaded for each instrument. Haven't had a stuck note since the incident above; I'm kinda surprised it seems to be so common. That would drive me nuts.

EDIT (for troubleshooting): I also always have MIDI chase on in my DAWs.


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## constaneum (May 12, 2019)

i'm on FL Studio i dont seem to have any notes hanging issues with CSS, CSSS and CSB. STrange..


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## Henu (May 12, 2019)

constaneum said:


> FL Studio



Cubase is -50% as we speak, just sayin'.


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## Simon Ravn (May 13, 2019)

I have hanging notes with sustain/legato patches in CSS/CSB as well. Really annoying but I am not holding my breath for a fix. Perhaps if enough of us write directly to the developer but I don't know... I too am on Logic + VEP combination - and I can't give up on MIDI chase to solve this. Chasing is far too important and neccessary.


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## Alex W (May 13, 2019)

Hi everyone,

This issue has been brought to my attention from time to time over the years. The two problems are: we've never been able to replicate it on our systems, and the users that experience it all report it as being completely random, with no reliable way of causing it. Both of these things make it very difficult to isolate the cause and resolve the issue; we're essentially taking stabs in the dark. We did try a whole bunch of things, but there's really no obvious reason why this should be happening at all.

Based on the very small number of support requests we've received regarding this issue, it does seem that it only affects a specific subset of Logic users. @ricoderks - sorry to hear that you experienced it in Cubase, but this is the first time in several years we've had a report of it from anyone not using Logic. That's not to minimise your problem Rico, but it's possible that whatever is causing your issue is unrelated to what the majority of folks in this thread (and via tech support) are experiencing.

Perhaps one practical step we can take is to try and identify any commonality between the setups of folks in this thread. Would you guys mind posting your specs, including audio interface makes / models, and any other external hardware that might somehow be relevant? It's still a long shot, but it might be worth a try.

Thanks!
Alex


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 13, 2019)

Alex W said:


> Would you guys mind posting your specs, including audio interface makes / models, and any other external hardware that might somehow be relevant? It's still a long shot, but it might be worth a try.


You rock Alex. I emailed you with specs.


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## averystemmler (May 13, 2019)

Just a wild, uninformed guess: since it seems to be primarily Logic, and those with this issue mentioned several other Kontakt libraries with hung notes, is it possible that it could be something with the AU version of Kontakt? Are those of you with troubles on Kontakt 5 or Kontakt 6?


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## Simon Ravn (May 13, 2019)

averystemmler said:


> Just a wild, uninformed guess: since it seems to be primarily Logic, and those with this issue mentioned several other Kontakt libraries with hung notes, is it possible that it could be something with the AU version of Kontakt? Are those of you with troubles on Kontakt 5 or Kontakt 6?



YES of course! Kontakt is just broken, and no-one noticed this before you, right now. Thank you for that insight... Sorry for the sarcasm 

And now back to reality. No it's not Kontakt. I don't have this problem with libraries in general. I had it happen with some version of Cinebrass, but I think their 1.7 update fixed it.

It happens a lot with both CSS and CSB. Only legato/marcato (which are also legato) patches I believe, as others pointed out. Also seems to be triggered by rewinding/forwarding if I recall - it's been a while since I sat down with either library.

But I will write Alex with my findings, and if others do as well, hopefully he will be able to come up with a fix.


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## averystemmler (May 13, 2019)

Simon Ravn said:


> YES of course! Kontakt is just broken, and no-one noticed this before you, right now. Thank you for that insight... Sorry for the sarcasm



Easy there cowboy. Troubleshooting is a process of finding the common denominator. With difficult-to-reproduce bugs dispersed across a broad userbase, every variable helps. If, for instance, everyone with hung notes is on version 5.8, using the Audio Units version, and everyone without is on version 6 or using a VST, that is useful information. I never said Kontakt is "just broken."

Not that it matters much to me. My notes are stopping when I want them to.


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## clisma (May 13, 2019)

Fantastic of @Alex W to chime in and help troubleshoot. So here are my specs to get things rolling, many eyes being better than two for comparisons: 

MacPro 2009 (flashed to 5,1), 3.06Ghz, 56GB, Sierra 10.12.6, RME UFX+, Roland FA-08 Master Keys, Audiosport 4x4 MIDI interface, Evolution UC-33e fader box, ilok2 and ancient Steinberg key, Logic 10.4.4, Kontakt 5.8.1.


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## Simon Ravn (May 13, 2019)

averystemmler said:


> Easy there cowboy. Troubleshooting is a process of finding the common denominator. With difficult-to-reproduce bugs dispersed across a broad userbase, every variable helps. If, for instance, everyone with hung notes is on version 5.8, using the Audio Units version, and everyone without is on version 6 or using a VST, that is useful information. I never said Kontakt is "just broken."
> 
> Not that it matters much to me. My notes are stopping when I want them to.



It is on all versions of kontakt. 5.5 and beyond. People who have this problem knows its been there since the release of CSS.


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## ReelToLogic (May 13, 2019)

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> This issue has been brought to my attention from time to time over the years. The two problems are: we've never been able to replicate it on our systems, and the users that experience it all report it as being completely random, with no reliable way of causing it. Both of these things make it very difficult to isolate the cause and resolve the issue; we're essentially taking stabs in the dark. We did try a whole bunch of things, but there's really no obvious reason why this should be happening at all.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Alex! Just PM'd you my info.


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## constaneum (May 13, 2019)

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> This issue has been brought to my attention from time to time over the years. The two problems are: we've never been able to replicate it on our systems, and the users that experience it all report it as being completely random, with no reliable way of causing it. Both of these things make it very difficult to isolate the cause and resolve the issue; we're essentially taking stabs in the dark. We did try a whole bunch of things, but there's really no obvious reason why this should be happening at all.
> 
> ...



I dont have any problem with CSS, CSSS or CSB but here's my setup. Hope it'll help in some way.

1) OS : Windows 10 Professional 64 bit
2) Audio Interface: Alesis IO|2 Express USB Audio interface
3) Digital audio workstation software: FL Studio 20 64 bit.
4) Kontakt: Last release for Kontakt 5. 
5) PC Spec:

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700 

RAM: 32 GB
Motherboard: ASUS B250 Prime
Power Supply: Superflower 550W Gold
Hardisks: 6 units of SSD.


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## Simon Ravn (May 13, 2019)

constaneum said:


> I dont have any problem with CSS, CSSS or CSB but here's my setup. Hope it'll help in some way.
> 
> 1) OS : Windows 10 Professional 64 bit
> 2) Audio Interface: Alesis IO|2 Express USB Audio interface
> ...


We already determined the issue happens with Logic so I have a hard time seeing how that is helpful.


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## constaneum (May 13, 2019)

Simon Ravn said:


> We already determined the issue happens with Logic so I have a hard time seeing how that is helpful.



so it's pure logic issue huh ? lol. ok. ignore the setup then. pardon me for overlooking the messages.


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## leon chevalier (May 13, 2019)

@Alex W
I'm a cubase 8/win10 user and it happened to me a while ago. And I've found a work around, but not a fix.

I noticed that it only happen when I grab some midi notes in the piano roll and move them up or down with the keyboard arrows, with notes playback on !

So the group of notes is played many times quickly every semi tone and it give me one hanging note (but not always).

Because of that I turned off the note playback (or midi playback, not sure of the name, I think it's a button with a little speaker on the piano roll editor) and never experienced it again.

More precision : I open several midi channels at the same in the piano roll that are all linked to the same kontakt instance with V1, V2, Viola, C, DB in it. So when I move notes it affect every instrument at the same time.

I'm not sure, but it seems that it happen more when legato is on.

It is definitely linked to a huge amount of note sent to the VI.

If I had to guess I would say that somewhere between cubase and kontakt a note release data is not sent or not processed.

I hope it helps to build a debug scenario.

Thanks for your fantastic work, and please release woodwinds


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## AoiichiNiiSan (May 13, 2019)

I've actually had this issue happen in Reaper, of all DAWs. However, the issue has been consistently fixed by raising my DFD buffer from 6kb to 12 or 18kb. Whichever works seems highly dependent on project size and complexity. This is on Windows 10, running a 5820k, 32gb RAM, and RME Babyface Pro.


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## Carson (May 14, 2019)

constaneum said:


> so it's pure logic issue huh ? lol. ok. ignore the setup then. pardon me for overlooking the messages.


lol no it’s not a Logic X only issue


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## ricoderks (May 14, 2019)

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> This issue has been brought to my attention from time to time over the years. The two problems are: we've never been able to replicate it on our systems, and the users that experience it all report it as being completely random, with no reliable way of causing it. Both of these things make it very difficult to isolate the cause and resolve the issue; we're essentially taking stabs in the dark. We did try a whole bunch of things, but there's really no obvious reason why this should be happening at all.
> 
> ...



Hi Alex!

Sure it's not THAT big of a problem. I use the midi reset feature from the menu to solve it.
This are the specs:

Windows 7/10 PRO 64-bit
Intel Core i7-5960X @ 3.00-3.50GHz
64GB RAM
Midi input Device: Native Instrument Komplete 88 (1st generation)
Interface: Arturia Audiofuse.
Daw: Cubase 9.5/10 pro
Kontakt: 5/6

I also tried the steinberg UR242 and Scarlett 2i2.
Also with or without vienna ensemble. Both scenarios the same. Happens mostly on legato strings here. Sometimes legato brass. But that rarely happens.

My colleague here runs OSX Yosemite I think but also has hanging notes sometimes.
We asked a expert and said we should install CSW to resolve the problem 

Jokes aside... It can be a little annoying but that's totally worth it. Maybe you'll find the problem!
Good luck and thanks for checking.


Rico


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## Si_Withenshaw (May 14, 2019)

I've never had any issues with CSS but I get hanging notes quite often with CSB. It happens when I stop my DAW playing while a (legato) note is playing. (Windows 10, Cubase/Nuendo 10, RME Babyface Pro)


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## Bender-offender (May 14, 2019)

I have this happen occasionally as well while using Cubase on a Mac. Although, my CSS and CSB libraries are on VEP PC slaves. I normally get stuck notes when doing my own SFZ with sustain or tremolo patches. 

I’m using Expression Maps and FlexRouter with each CSS/CSB in its own individually kontakt.


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## averystemmler (May 14, 2019)

Bender-offender said:


> normally get stuck notes when doing my own SFZ with sustain or tremolo patches



That sounds similar to a situation I used to have in Cubase. Rapid controller and note input on multiple midi devices simultaneously would cause notes to hang, regardless of library. It was repeatable by playing notes while sending CCs from a separate device. The more notes and CCs being sent, the more reliably it would hang.

It could have been a USB bus throughput issue on my end, but is what you experience similarly repeatable?


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## Bender-offender (May 14, 2019)

averystemmler said:


> That sounds similar to a situation I used to have in Cubase. Rapid controller and note input on multiple midi devices simultaneously would cause notes to hang, regardless of library. It was repeatable by playing notes while sending CCs from a separate device. The more notes and CCs being sent, the more reliably it would hang.
> 
> It could have been a USB bus throughput issue on my end, but is what you experience similarly repeatable?


I honestly couldn’t tell you. I have duplicates of the same patch loaded for each instrument (ie, 4 Horns and 4 Horns, etc) on separate MIDI channels, and when I get a stuck note, I’ll move the MIDI region to one of the duplicates and the stuck note goes away even though it’s an exact copy of the original patch. So it’s random on my end. Also, this happens exclusively with CSS/CSB on my system. I don’t experience stuck notes with any other library.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 14, 2019)

I'm getting hanging notes when I select a lot of CSB midi notes at once, since Logic plays the notes when you select them. And I also get them when I stop playback in the middle of long notes, as @Si_Withenshaw mentioned.


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## Saxer (May 14, 2019)

I remember when Berlin Strings came out they were unusable (at least for me) because of hanging notes. It happened when notes were playing to the end of a region (i.e. by the "force legato" function). Actually note-offs too close to the region end. Maybe single note-offs and some other midi event overlapping? OT fixed it in an update. 
Btw I use Logic and don't have hanging notes in CSS/CSB.


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## jimjazzuk (May 19, 2019)

I'm having a strange thing happen with CSB with the muted brass patches... the notes don't play when you press the keys down, but only when you release the key. Anyone else have this? Very frustrating! Any idea what this could be @Alex W ?

Edit: only with muted sustains, using Logic Pro x


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## Alex W (May 31, 2019)

Hi everyone,

Here's a slightly long yet hopefully useful update on our progress regarding some users experiencing hung notes with CSS / CSB in Logic. We tried to identify the cause by adding a script to Kontakt that monitors all of the MIDI data being sent to Kontakt by Logic. Bear with me because it's a little bit complicated.

What we found was that if you have MIDI chase enabled for CC64, and you then press stop during playback at a part where CC64 = ON, the following will occur. First, all notes currently sounding should stop at that point, because Logic always sends a CC64 = OFF command whenever you press stop.

However, since playback was stopped at a part where CC64 = ON, Logic will restore CC64 to ON immediately after it sends the initial CC64 = OFF message when playback was stopped. What this means is that any notes you then subsequently trigger, either by selecting a note in the editor or playing a note on the keyboard, these notes will be "hung", in that they will continue to sound as though the sustain pedal is engaged, because it is.






This is made slightly more complicated by the fact that there seems to be a minor bug in Logic, whereby even though you may have pressed stop during a part where CC64 = ON, sometimes Logic randomly neglects to restore CC64 to ON, for no apparent reason. Obviously in these random cases, hung notes will not occur.

But apart from those random cases, overall this is not a bug as such, and the same thing will occur whether you're using CSS, CSB or any other library that has long notes, e.g. the Logic default strings patches. If you want to avoid this specific situation, you could try turning off MIDI chase for CC64 in the preferences:







---


Another factor that may apply to some users relates to the pause button. As mentioned above, Logic sends a CC64 = OFF message at the end of a region or if you press stop, but not if you press pause. Any note sounding in this case should continue to sound.

Also, if you press the pause button close to or at the moment a new note starts, Logic sends this "note on" command _after_ the pause command to Kontakt. As a result, pressing the pause button will sometimes stop all notes, but other times the notes will continue to sound - creating the impression of hung notes. We will address this specific issue in the next script update, but hopefully this information helps folks that use the pause button in this scenario.

Some users have also reported hung notes after pressing the stop button. This never happened during our tests. It would be interesting to see if turning off MIDI chase for CC64 resolves this issue in those cases.


---


And lastly, this following scenario is something we're doing more ongoing testing on, but it would be useful to hear user feedback regarding this. Please see this video of an example of a hung note being created with the default Logic EXS strings patch. It seems that we can constantly create hung notes by placing the playhead within a region shortly after a note, or perhaps just before the end of a note (as in the video).

In the video, notice it is the second note (the A) that becomes hung, possibly due to the playhead's position relative to the end of the note. It seems that Logic managed to send a "Note On" message for this note, but it never sent a "Note Off" message to it, hence it hung. Again, this is not CSS / CSB, just the default Logic strings. It seems that the "pre-roll" function in Logic is to blame here, and switching it off should hopefully alleviate this problem.

As I mentioned there is more testing to be done on this specific scenario, but can anyone else confirm / replicate this on their system, and does switching off pre-roll fix it? If you want to leave pre-roll on, here are other things that may help avoid the problem:

Always start the playback from the beginning of a region.
Do not use the fast-forward or rewind button during playback.
Do not manually reposition the playhead during playback.

Do these things help?


---


Thanks everyone for your patience, hopefully we'll continue to shed more light on the issue.

Best,
Alex


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## Carson (May 31, 2019)

Thank you greatly for looking into this and the feedback


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 1, 2019)

@Alex W thanks for the input. I have adjusted my settings and am making sure to use "stop" instead of "pause" when working through parts. I am still getting some hanging notes, but they are significantly fewer than before. I think having chase off entirely might be a big step in getting this behavior to stop. I will try some more.

Part of me wonders if there might be a small issue with Logic's Articulation Sets and how they interact with the library. I was going through an older piece from before I updated to a version of Logic where Articulation Sets were possible. I noticed there were fewer hanging notes on CSS. Lo and behold, I was using key switches. Since updating Logic I have been using Thanos by @NoamL. I wonder if Logic is a bit sensitive as to using articulation IDs instead of key switches. I'm just spitballing here.


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## clisma (Jun 4, 2019)

Thanks so much, Alex, for this! Looks like for now the solution is to disable chasing of CC 64-71, at least over here.


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## C-Land (Jun 4, 2019)

Alex W said:


> And lastly, this following scenario is something we're doing more ongoing testing on, but it would be useful to hear user feedback regarding this. Please see this video of an example of a hung note being created with the default Logic EXS strings patch. It seems that we can constantly create hung notes by placing the playhead within a region shortly after a note, or perhaps just before the end of a note (as in the video).
> 
> In the video, notice it is the second note (the A) that becomes hung, possibly due to the playhead's position relative to the end of the note. It seems that Logic managed to send a "Note On" message for this note, but it never sent a "Note Off" message to it, hence it hung. Again, this is not CSS / CSB, just the default Logic strings. It seems that the "pre-roll" function in Logic is to blame here, and switching it off should hopefully alleviate this problem.
> 
> As I mentioned there is more testing to be done on this specific scenario, but can anyone else confirm / replicate this on their system, and does switching off pre-roll fix it? If you want to leave pre-roll on, here are other things that may help avoid the problem:




Hi Alex, thanks for the detailed analysis of the problem! I was able to replicate the hung notes with the Logic Studio Strings both with playback pre-roll on and off. But after turning the chasing of sustained notes off in the MIDI/Chase settings I wasn't able to replicate it. If there's more things we can help you with to solve this problem please let us know!


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## ricoderks (Sep 14, 2019)

Hi Guys,

I wanted to share my solution to the hanging notes so far. For Cubase, that is.
Since I use expression maps and programmed them all to the corresponding cc85 value I've encountered this hanging notes problem. The reason was using sustain pedal in combination with the expression maps. I use a lot of separate events and at some point in my project there were these hanging notes some of the strings. So, i made a little event with all combos of the expression maps quickly switching right after another and setting cc64 to 0 every time a new articulation was selected. Like a reset event. However, it did not work! Odd... So I glued all parts to one big event to see if there was any other cc64 data other than my "reset" event. Nope! Also odd. I've checked my preferences for chase events and came across a setting which solved the problem. It's called: "Chase not limited to Part Boundaries".
Then it hit me: Some events were trimmed instead of using the selection tool and deleting some bits. That means you can re-trim the parts and the original data is still in there. Its been in Cubase since Jesus died but kinda forgot that there can be data in "non existing" or trimmed parts. And of course there was some cc64 data in there! I just could not see it anymore. Because I glued everything together that data was deleted/merged. I prefer to have this silly setting OFF and have all the events in the parts anyway....
Hope it will help to someone! Maybe this is also kinda the problem for other DAWs.

Basic feature but easily overlooked by me and probably others too.

Good luck!

Rico


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## ricoderks (Sep 15, 2019)

Well....
One problem fixed. Onto the next one. For some reason articulation mapping IS triggering cc64 to ON even when i did not program that in AT ALL. I can see it triggering in kontakt midi monitor. When setting a command to turn cc64 of with each articulation switch the sustain pedal stopped working completely. NICE CUBASE! Thanks a lot for the headache.... Someone got any ideas? the attachement shows how i would like to work with CSS/CSB but the sustain problem is killing it completely for me. Especially because the re-bow or re-tongue feature is awesome. And now I can not export my session into stems without false triggered sustained notes! :( You can clearly see cc64 turned to 0 before hitting the marcato accent switch. It also does not help to put the midi cc earlier or later, after the marcato trigger. Then the next trigger will be sustained. This is just bad programming by steinberg it seems to me. @Alex W, do you have any clue? I can maybe send over the Expression maps and midi parts for testing?

Rico


----------



## Vangance (Dec 8, 2019)

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> This issue has been brought to my attention from time to time over the years. The two problems are: we've never been able to replicate it on our systems, and the users that experience it all report it as being completely random, with no reliable way of causing it. Both of these things make it very difficult to isolate the cause and resolve the issue; we're essentially taking stabs in the dark. We did try a whole bunch of things, but there's really no obvious reason why this should be happening at all.
> 
> ...





Simon Ravn said:


> I have hanging notes with sustain/legato patches in CSS/CSB as well. Really annoying but I am not holding my breath for a fix. Perhaps if enough of us write directly to the developer but I don't know... I too am on Logic + VEP combination - and I can't give up on MIDI chase to solve this. Chasing is far too important and neccessary.


Not sure if this thread is still open, am new to this forum. 
I had similar problems with hanging notes, weird responses to muting, start/stop, losing vib and vel control etc. 
I changed cs1 and cs2 to cs16 and cs17 respectively and every problem went away!!
Nothing special about these CC's, just chose randomly. Worked though, solved everything for me. Am using CSS on logix pro x....


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## Vangance (Dec 8, 2019)

Vangance said:


> Not sure if this thread is still open, am new to this forum.
> I had similar problems with hanging notes, weird responses to muting, start/stop, losing vib and vel control etc.
> I changed cs1 and cs2 to cs16 and cs17 respectively and every problem went away!!
> Nothing special about these CC's, just chose randomly. Worked though, solved everything for me. Am using CSS on logix pro x....


Meant cc1 and cc2.. Mistype sorry


----------



## constaneum (Dec 8, 2019)

strange....i;ve never encountered the hanging notes issues


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## N.Caffrey (Dec 9, 2019)

I basically can’t play without getting hanging notes, it’s so frustrating. Happens crazy often when I stop the music pressing the space bar. If I move the cursor before the notes hanging then it stops but it’s a major pain. Wish they could find a solution


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## Vangance (Dec 9, 2019)

N.Caffrey said:


> I basically can’t play without getting hanging notes, it’s so frustrating. Happens crazy often when I stop the music pressing the space bar. If I move the cursor before the notes hanging then it stops but it’s a major pain. Wish they could find a solution


Try the changes I suggested yesterday, can only say it worked perfectly for me..


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## N.Caffrey (Dec 9, 2019)

Vangance said:


> Try the changes I suggested yesterday, can only say it worked perfectly for me..


But I'd have to reassign faders etc just for this library.. doesn't seem too practical but I'll give it a go thanks


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## Vangance (Dec 9, 2019)

N.Caffrey said:


> But I'd have to reassign faders etc just for this library.. doesn't seem too practical but I'll give it a go thanks


I'm lucky that I have about 12 physical sliders and knobs on my midi keyboard so I understand the practicalities, am using about 10 already with the array of libraries I use!


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## snattack (Mar 4, 2020)

Hello Alex,

I have successfully been able to reproduce the hanging note bug now. It is not related to CC64 or Chase or Logic, it is related to Legato in the string patches, and seems to happen when the Note Off is sent too soon after the Note On has been sent in combination with retriggering a note instead of having a legato transition.

Please see the following video illustrating the problem:


As you can see in the video, turning off Legato stops this behaviour. It's also precise timing that is required to reproduce this, as you see I fail several times, but stopping at the exact right moment hangs the note. I found out after I did the video, that if I extended the G to the Gb-note to an overlap – so that the legato transition was triggered – I can't make the notes hang. So it has something to do with the retriggering.

When using plugins in Logic that adds latency to the audio output, Logic "looks ahead" of the actual playback (this is not related to the "pre-roll" setting). First I thought the problem was Logic, but the Midi Monitor added inside Kontakt (last in chain before CSS) confirms that nothing else is sent after the Note Off, and that Kontakt receives the correct information, but CSS still hangs. See the following screenshot (I removed all other parameters, no other info is sent, but it's to clear the verbose view):









Screen Shot 2020-03-04 at 13.59.02.png


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com





In this case, it's the Gb4 note that hangs. This is the last midi message in the list, which is Note Off.

I can turn chase off everything, this still happens. In the same project, the same behaviour doesn't affect Berlin Strings. If I move the exact same content to the track above and try to provoke a similar patch, it doesn't hang.

I hope this helps, currently it's very difficult using CSS when working with music that has plenty of "movement", because stopping and starting recording quite often hangs notes.

EDIT: I've uploaded the Logic Project in the video here:








CSS Bug.zip


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com





Best,
Andreas




Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Here's a slightly long yet hopefully useful update on our progress regarding some users experiencing hung notes with CSS / CSB in Logic. We tried to identify the cause by adding a script to Kontakt that monitors all of the MIDI data being sent to Kontakt by Logic. Bear with me because it's a little bit complicated.
> 
> ...


----------



## Gingerbread (Mar 4, 2020)

snattack said:


> Hello Alex,
> 
> I have successfully been able to reproduce the hanging note bug now. It is not related to CC64 or Chase or Logic, it is related to Legato in the string patches, and seems to happen when the Note Off is sent too soon after the Note On has been sent in combination with retriggering a note instead of having a legato transition.
> 
> ...



snattack, please be sure to send your findings to their support system at their website. They may not regularly check VI Control, and may miss your findings unless you send this directly to them.


----------



## snattack (Mar 4, 2020)

Gingerbread said:


> snattack, please be sure to send your findings to their support system at their website. They may not regularly check VI Control, and may miss your findings unless you send this directly to them.



Yeah, I figured as much, I already opened a ticket and linked this forum thread.


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## snattack (Mar 5, 2020)

Here's a response from Alex:

"Thanks very much for your detailed reporting on the bug. As it turns out, we've managed to fix this bug, and will be releasing an update for all 3 currently available libraries... ...this update will also contain a number of other tweaks and improvements, including a runs mode for CSS, which sounds great!"


----------



## Si_Withenshaw (Mar 5, 2020)

oh wow, this is fantastic news!


----------



## Giscard Rasquin (Mar 5, 2020)




----------



## Wunderhorn (Mar 5, 2020)

Now, we need to contact Cinesamples and make them aware of these hints. Maybe their notorious hanging notes (always the legato!) can be cured as well after all.
Thanks, snattack for sharing your experiences.


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## Takabuntu (Mar 6, 2020)

snattack said:


> Here's a response from Alex:
> 
> "Thanks very much for your detailed reporting on the bug. As it turns out, we've managed to fix this bug, and will be releasing an update for all 3 currently available libraries... ...this update will also contain a number of other tweaks and improvements, including a runs mode for CSS, which sounds great!"



Did they mention a release date for the update?


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 6, 2020)

here is a scripter MidiMonitor script that might help people resolve what is going on. See attached. Copy this into the following folder:


```
~/Music/Audio Music Apps/Plug-in Settings/Scripter/
```

To use the script setup your project however you want and in the last midifx plugin slot, place this Scripter script. Open the edit window of Scripter to view the logging. This will show you exactly what is being sent to the instrument, in the correct order, including with midi timing information if you want, etc.


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## snattack (Mar 8, 2020)

Takabuntu said:


> Did they mention a release date for the update?



An approximate date, but I cut that out since I don't know how official it is.


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## Peter Williams (Mar 12, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Does this happen to anyone in cubase?


Yes!


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 12, 2020)

Also with this library, are those of you experiencing problems using CC switches or note keyswitches to change articulations?


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## GingerMaestro (Mar 30, 2020)

So, I've suddenly started having what I think is the hanging notes issue. I'm using Key switches via Thanos created by @NoamL to combat the delay. I've tried every possible way to reprogram this, including Alex's suggestions regarding Midi Chase, but can't see to fix the problem. Any advice would be appreciated. I really want to try and avoid adding another track just to run the legato patch, as I like to think of each instrument as a line, rather than just a series of keyboard patches. Thank you very much









Dropbox - File Deleted


Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again!




www.dropbox.com


----------



## GingerMaestro (Apr 26, 2020)

snattack said:


> Here's a response from Alex:
> 
> "Thanks very much for your detailed reporting on the bug. As it turns out, we've managed to fix this bug, and will be releasing an update for all 3 currently available libraries... ...this update will also contain a number of other tweaks and improvements, including a runs mode for CSS, which sounds great!"


Wondered if anyone had heard any more news about this exciting update, ? particulalry the runs mode..Obvioulsy keen to get my hands on this, like many folks here, I'm sure ! Thanks


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## asinla (Apr 29, 2020)

GingerMaestro said:


> Wondered if anyone had heard any more news about this exciting update, ? particulalry the runs mode..Obvioulsy keen to get my hands on this, like many folks here, I'm sure ! Thanks


I'm quite keen to get the update too. Currently working on a film and the hanging notes are driving me insane! 
Any news?


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## lokotus (May 21, 2020)

Hanging notes Problems with keyswitches Expression Maps in Cubase


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## lokotus (May 21, 2020)

lokotus said:


> Hanging notes Problems with keyswitches Expression Maps in Cubase


Please solve asap


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## Henu (Aug 18, 2020)

So, is there really a consensus what's causing this? Especially with Cubase and expression maps. 

I forgot this because I use CSB rarely- and of course it hit me in the middle of a work-project I've been working on two days utilizing CSB. >.<


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## lokotus (Aug 18, 2020)

i thought they wanted to solve it with an update..


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## Rinus Y (Sep 1, 2020)

as of September 2nd Im still having hanging note and weird note trigger issues on CSS and CSB legato patches. This is on Kontakt 6.4.0 after the update


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## al_net77 (Sep 2, 2020)

Just to say, Kontakt 6.4.1 changelog:

*FIXED* Certain libraries (Cinematic Studio Strings and others) could cause incorrect long release notes under certain conditions


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## Tremendouz (Sep 2, 2020)

al_net77 said:


> Just to say, Kontakt 6.4.1 changelog:
> 
> *FIXED* Certain libraries (Cinematic Studio Strings and others) could cause incorrect long release notes under certain conditions


Thank you, updating as we speak!


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## Eptesicus (Sep 2, 2020)

snattack said:


> Here's a response from Alex:
> 
> "Thanks very much for your detailed reporting on the bug. As it turns out, we've managed to fix this bug, and will be releasing an update for all 3 currently available libraries... ...this update will also contain a number of other tweaks and improvements, including a runs mode for CSS, which sounds great!"



Oh cool, Looking forward to the run mode.


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## Rinus Y (Sep 2, 2020)

I got the change to test out the kontakt 6.4.1 patch for CSS and CSB. It seems to have fixed it. For now atleast...


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## Tremendouz (Sep 3, 2020)

I just noticed the thread was about a different issue. What I'm experiencing with CSSS (solo strings) is some notes getting stuck for 1-2 seconds if I place CC2 (vibrato control) envelope points near the legato transitions


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## Pantonal (Sep 23, 2020)

al_net77 said:


> Just to say, Kontakt 6.4.1 changelog:
> 
> *FIXED* Certain libraries (Cinematic Studio Strings and others) could cause incorrect long release notes under certain conditions


I just downloaded the Kontakt 6.4.1 Player and maybe I'm doing something wrong but I'm getting hanging notes in CSB. I'm not even using legato (the section is a bunch of repeated notes) and a few notes are sticking. Any thoughts? I'm using Logic with articulation sets.


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## Andrew0568 (Oct 14, 2020)

Pantonal said:


> I just downloaded the Kontakt 6.4.1 Player and maybe I'm doing something wrong but I'm getting hanging notes in CSB. I'm not even using legato (the section is a bunch of repeated notes) and a few notes are sticking. Any thoughts? I'm using Logic with articulation sets.



Did you find a solution? I'm also using articulation sets in Logic and with Kontakt 5 and Kontakt 6 this problem is driving me _insane_


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## Pantonal (Oct 14, 2020)

Andrew0568 said:


> Did you find a solution? I'm also using articulation sets in Logic and with Kontakt 5 and Kontakt 6 this problem is driving me _insane_


I found it was particular articulations that caused the issue, so I'm avoiding those.


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## Kevperry777 (Oct 14, 2020)

Pantonal said:


> I found it was particular articulations that caused the issue, so I'm avoiding those.



Marcato?


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## Pantonal (Oct 16, 2020)

Kevperry777 said:


> Marcato?


I believe so.


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## David Kudell (Oct 16, 2020)

I have to say, this was one of the little benefits of switching to Cubase. Those hanging notes were happening so often in Logic, it was driving me insane.


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## Toecutter (Nov 15, 2020)

Still getting hanging notes in CSS, CSSS and CSB, no matter which patch or articulation I select. Kontakt 6.4.2 standalone and Cubase. I can't use any of the libraries! Anyone found a solution? I thought this was fixed in Kontakt 6.4.1


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## Kevperry777 (Nov 15, 2020)

Toecutter said:


> Still getting hanging notes in CSS, CSSS and CSB, no matter which patch or articulation I select. Kontakt 6.4.2 standalone and Cubase. I can't use any of the libraries! Anyone found a solution? I thought this was fixed in Kontakt 6.4.1


Message CS support....Alex can help.


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## Living Fossil (Nov 15, 2020)

Kevperry777 said:


> Message CS support....Alex can help.



From what i've heard from the support this issue is going to be fixed in an update.


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## Toecutter (Nov 15, 2020)

I did contact Alex but no response. I assumed he is busy with CSW. Can't risk having another 6 months of delay because of my email. XD



Living Fossil said:


> From what i've heard from the support this issue is going to be fixed in an update.



Thanks, did he say when?


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## Living Fossil (Nov 15, 2020)

Toecutter said:


> Thanks, did he say when?



It was about one month ago.


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## Chornobyl (Dec 17, 2020)

Happens here 80% of the time. Windows 10. 32gb ram. Cubase 10.5. 
stopped using this library for now until will find a solution.


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## Tremendouz (Dec 17, 2020)

Happening in Reaper too and I can't downgrade Kontakt cause I bath resaved some stuff


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## Alex S (Dec 19, 2020)

Hi, I have the same problem with CSS and CSB in Studio One 5.
Version of Kontakt 6.4.2. Windows 10.
The notes hanging when I play the long articulation (legato, tremolo, harmonics).


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## Toecutter (Dec 19, 2020)

hey @Alex W any news about the update?


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## Bender-offender (Dec 19, 2020)

Chornobyl said:


> Happens here 80% of the time. Windows 10. 32gb ram. Cubase 10.5.
> stopped using this library for now until will find a solution.


All you need to do is insert CC123 at the end of a note or phrase. It’ll stop the hanging note(s). 

A workaround I have is creating a MIDI CC Lane in the key editor showing only CC123. I have a key command to show that lane, then I just draw in CC123 at 127 value right at the end of a phrase.


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## bfreepro (Dec 19, 2020)

Bender-offender said:


> All you need to do is insert CC123 at the end of a note or phrase. It’ll stop the hanging note(s).
> 
> A workaround I have is creating a MIDI CC Lane in the key editor showing only CC123. I have a key command to show that lane, then I just draw in CC123 at 127 value right at the end of a phrase.


Going to try this ASAP!!


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## bfreepro (Dec 19, 2020)

Bender-offender said:


> All you need to do is insert CC123 at the end of a note or phrase. It’ll stop the hanging note(s).
> 
> A workaround I have is creating a MIDI CC Lane in the key editor showing only CC123. I have a key command to show that lane, then I just draw in CC123 at 127 value right at the end of a phrase.


Which DAW are you on btw? I need to set up these key commands haha.


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## Chornobyl (Dec 19, 2020)

Bender-offender said:


> All you need to do is insert CC123 at the end of a note or phrase. It’ll stop the hanging note(s).
> 
> A workaround I have is creating a MIDI CC Lane in the key editor showing only CC123. I have a key command to show that lane, then I just draw in CC123 at 127 value right at the end of a phrase.


Good idea but That doesn’t work for me because when I get hanging notes they’re not just at the end of the phrase but in the middle of the phrase or anywhere in the phrase. 
and putting the cc123 after each note will not make the legato work


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## Bender-offender (Dec 19, 2020)

bfreepro said:


> Which DAW are you on btw? I need to set up these key commands haha.


Oh sorry, I’m using Cubase. But the CC123 will work in any other DAW obviously. Just not sure about the key commands.


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## Bender-offender (Dec 19, 2020)

Chornobyl said:


> Good idea but That doesn’t work for me because when I get hanging notes they’re not just at the end of the phrase but in the middle of the phrase or anywhere in the phrase.
> and putting the cc123 after each note will not make the legato work


That seems very unusual then. Are you getting hanging notes in between legato transitions?


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## aka70 (Jan 21, 2021)

I think the hanging notes problem is related to Kontakt. When i disable Multiprocessor support inside kontakt there are no more hanging notes in CSS. 

As soon as you enable it (2,4,6,8 etc cores) the hanging notes begins. 

I'm using Studio one 5. 

No problems when I use the same settings but inside VePro.


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## Alex S (Jan 23, 2021)

aka70 said:


> I think the hanging notes problem is related to Kontakt. When i disable Multiprocessor support inside kontakt there are no more hanging notes in CSS.
> 
> As soon as you enable it (2,4,6,8 etc cores) the hanging notes begins.
> 
> ...


Hi, it helps me! Really works. 
System configuration: Win 10, AMD 2400G, Studio One 5.


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## aka70 (Jan 23, 2021)

Alex S said:


> Hi, it helps me! Really works.
> System configuration: Win 10, AMD 2400G, Studio One 5.


Good to know. 

I've already tried it also with cubase. It's the same scenario.


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## frioventus (Jan 23, 2021)

aka70 said:


> I think the hanging notes problem is related to Kontakt. When i disable Multiprocessor support inside kontakt there are no more hanging notes in CSS.
> 
> As soon as you enable it (2,4,6,8 etc cores) the hanging notes begins.
> 
> ...


When you turn off the Multiprocessor support, the CPU usage increases a lot. Especially in full patches.


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 24, 2021)

I know Alex has a fix for it. I just hope he now has time to come out with fixed versions of all three libraries soon!


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## Ike (Jan 24, 2021)

I’m on Cubase 11, Windows 10, 32 gigs ram and I tried this yesterday just on my violin 1 legato patch and all last night I had no issues. I was having the worst hanging notes it was unbearable. I have been reading in several forums and some forums are saying it’s a kontakt issue and other forums are saying it’s a Cinematic Studio libraries issue.I did read Alex had a fix coming soon but that was last summer. What’s weird is many people have no issues but many do. kontakt 6.4.1 specifically said it had fix for cinematic studio libraries but it didn’t fix it. I’ve read the only way to fix it for now is to go back to 6.3.1. Fingers crossed someone fixes it soon i think we have all been very patient. I’ll post later how it works for me today and keep an eye on the cpu usage as well. Thanks !!!!


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## MilesAbbott (Jan 24, 2021)

I have no idea if this is a fix or even the same problem, so I'll briefly describe the problem and how I fixed it.

I had a section of spiccato shorts that ended on a Marcato note, and for some reason the Marcato note would sustain without end. It would stop if I went back to the spiccato part, but every time I hit the Marcato note the same thing would happen. This had happened to me before, but I'm not sure how or if I ever did actually fix the problem.

Anyway, the way I fixed this just recently was I accidentally changed my cc controller lane (in Cubase) to 64, and saw that the sustain had been activated. This made no sense to me, as I'm fairly certain I never changed it, though I suppose I might've while messing around with some piano MIDI (could be a bug of some kind activated it I guess). I have no idea, all I know is I deactivated the sustain and I no longer had the problem, and haven't had it since.

So possible solution: check your sustain cc and make sure you haven't accidentally activated it. I know in Cubase it is fairly easy to make changes on the wrong track, which I'm guessing is what I did.


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## Ike (Jan 24, 2021)

MilesAbbott said:


> I have no idea if this is a fix or even the same problem, so I'll briefly describe the problem and how I fixed it.
> 
> I had a section of spiccato shorts that ended on a Marcato note, and for some reason the Marcato note would sustain without end. It would stop if I went back to the spiccato part, but every time I hit the Marcato note the same thing would happen. This had happened to me before, but I'm not sure how or if I ever did actually fix the problem.
> 
> ...


Miles how are you deactivating it? i have gone to midi/note expressions/note expression midi setup and cc64 it is not x or checked as active. Am I missing something? I checked that once before but I want to be sure I’m doing it correctly. I have had multi processors off in kontakt with no issues but eventually it’s going to affect my cpu usage. Thanks


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## MilesAbbott (Jan 25, 2021)

Ike said:


> Miles how are you deactivating it? i have gone to midi/note expressions/note expression midi setup and cc64 it is not x or checked as active. Am I missing something? I checked that once before but I want to be sure I’m doing it correctly. I have had multi processors off in kontakt with no issues but eventually it’s going to affect my cpu usage. Thanks


Hmm, not sure to what you're referring exactly. Assuming you're using Cubase (I'm unfamiliar with other DAW's), then you simply change the controller lane CC beneath your normal MIDI area by clicking the tiny down arrow. You then change the CC to 64, which is sustain. It's activated by using the little pen-type icon and making a dot, which you then drag up or down. Up activates, down deactivates, or if there is no dot at all then it's in its default position (which isn't active). You can delete the dot by highlighting it and hitting the delete button.

I'm guessing this isn't your problem if you're unfamiliar with CC64 in the controller lane (again, assuming you're using Cubase). You would've had to have been messing with something that required sustain in order to change it in the first place, unless there really is a bug that somehow randomly activates the sustain...which I am doubting is the case. I use CC64 all the time because the piece I'm working on has piano in it so there's all kinds of sustain going on and off, so I'm guessing that's what my problem was.


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## Ike (Jan 25, 2021)

MilesAbbott said:


> Hmm, not sure to what you're referring exactly. Assuming you're using Cubase (I'm unfamiliar with other DAW's), then you simply change the controller lane CC beneath your normal MIDI area by clicking the tiny down arrow. You then change the CC to 64, which is sustain. It's activated by using the little pen-type icon and making a dot, which you then drag up or down. Up activates, down deactivates, or if there is no dot at all then it's in its default position (which isn't active). You can delete the dot by highlighting it and hitting the delete button.
> 
> I'm guessing this isn't your problem if you're unfamiliar with CC64 in the controller lane (again, assuming you're using Cubase). You would've had to have been messing with something that required sustain in order to change it in the first place, unless there really is a bug that somehow randomly activates the sustain...which I am doubting is the case. I use CC64 all the time because the piece I'm working on has piano in it so there's all kinds of sustain going on and off, so I'm guessing that's what my problem was.


Oh I see I gotcha now. Yes I’m on Cubase 11 pro ! I just deleted the sustain all
Together but I might add it back and check my cc 64 lane just to see if I have accidentally wrote some midi info in cc64. I’ll let you know what I find out. Thank you !!!!


----------



## Davaakhuu (Jan 26, 2021)

Having same problem here on Cubase 11, VEP7, CSSS, CSS, CSB


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## yiph2 (Jan 26, 2021)

Same here, Logic CSS/B/W

John had mentioned that there would be a fix to it next update so I'm hoping it will be soon


----------



## Billy Shears (Apr 3, 2021)

So, does anyone have solution for this?


----------



## David Kudell (Apr 3, 2021)

Billy Shears said:


> So, does anyone have solution for this?


For me this problem went away when I switched from Logic to Cubase, thank goodness...it drove me crazy.


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## Wunderhorn (Apr 3, 2021)

With Cinebrass (Core and Pro) it happens only with the legatos (and there a lot, Logic + VEP), so I compose with sustains instead of legatos until it is finished. Then I implement the legatos at the end. PITA but Cinesamples were not interested in addressing this problem at the time when I asked about it.


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## Living Fossil (Apr 4, 2021)

Billy Shears said:


> So, does anyone have solution for this?


I guess we still have to wait till the update.

There is a small workaround that i use sometimes: if you put a short dummy note after the last long note , there will be no hanging note. But even if it's easily done, it's an annoying workaround and you still have to delete the dummy note afterwards.


----------



## Illico (Apr 5, 2021)

Living Fossil said:


> ...There is a small workaround that i use sometimes: if you put a short dummy note after the last long note , there will be no hanging note.


I was annoyed with notes stuck on CSSS and CSS. The problem generaly appeared during rendering export process. Its a part with big tempo changes (step). I looked at my Cubase 11 Expression Map. Nothing to do. Then I add a dummy short note after the one with issue, then problem solved. Thanks @Living Fossil for you workaround tips.


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## lokotus (Apr 11, 2021)

Cubase 11, Win10, Expression Maas configured only Note ON events (no CC58 usage) 
Still, stuck - hanging notes when stoping playback in the middle of notes...
It is a real problem, everything I could do configuring did not solve the problem. Maybe an update will, I still see version 1.0 with no updates for CSSS


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## quickbrownf0x (May 14, 2021)

Never had any issues until earlier today, but it went away once I started deleting the CC64/Sustain data. 

Cubase Pro (Windows) 11.0.20, Build 357 here, combined with Art Conductor 7. Thanks for all the tips you guys gave me on where to look. Drove me bonkers.


----------



## RMH (May 14, 2021)

I'm a user of Mac and Logic Pro. I have for libraries of css csss csb csw. It happened during the short demo, and it happened the whole time. I exchanged e-mails with Alex several times due to this problem and received an answer that he would try my best to solve this problem. So we have to bear some inconvenience until it's fixed! I'm gonna test it on Studio One.


----------



## Scottyb (Jun 29, 2021)

Are people still struggling with this issue? Has the update been issued yet? Thx!


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## Saxer (Jun 29, 2021)

I'm not really sure but I think it has to do with chase events in Logic. When pressing the start button Logic plays the last events of the previous region to make sure all controllers are sent to the right level. Notes too but with an immediate stop and then the original notes of the current region are played. This happens fast... and I think it's too fast for Kontakt when scripting is involved. It happens in the CSS series and in Infinite Brass and Woodwinds too. When Berlin Strings came out there was the same problem... Orchestraltools solved it in an update years ago. Maybe someone should ask them how they did it!

I don't have that much hanging notes when I don't start playback at the start of regions (at the beginning of the bar mostly). Less hanging notes when starting playback on the "four".


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## Scottyb (Jun 30, 2021)

Thanks for the info. Definitely saw where ‘chase’ might be helping this problem occur but I’ve never had it cause a problem for me in any other library so it concerns me. : / Have been really wanting to grab it and noticing the developer saying they were working on a fix, but that was quite some time ago and then silence.


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## Dewdman42 (Jun 30, 2021)

Kontakt has design flaws related to the timing of cc events and note events within the same process block. This might affect things when cc58 is being used for switching articulations. In my view nobody should use cc58 with cinematic studio products due to this kontakt general problem. Try changing to not using cc58, use the NoteOn keyswitches instead, and also try a smaller audio buffer to lessen the liklihood of it happening.


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## marclawsonmusic (Jun 30, 2021)

I think @Dewdman42 is on to something here. I have the same problem with CineWinds - notes get hung occasionally. But I am also using CC's for articulation switching with that library.

Normally pressing 'stop' a second time on transport takes care of this, but I sometimes have to go into Kontakt and hit the panic button.

So I don't think this issue is unique to CSS / CSB.


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## Wunderhorn (Jun 30, 2021)

It can (and still does) happen with a wide variety of libraries. But mostly with Cinebrass (I don't have CSS). I still avoid using legato articulations for sketching due to this issue.


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## Dewdman42 (Jun 30, 2021)

In my opinion kontakt library developers should not ever use cc switches due to this kontakt design flaw. Cc can be used for certain parameters global to the instrument but probably should not be used for articulation switching.


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## Saxer (Jun 30, 2021)

Infinite Brass and Infinite Woodwinds have the same problem but both libraries don't use any key switch. Berlin Strings (in the first released version) had key switches but no CC articulation switching.


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## Dewdman42 (Jun 30, 2021)

Thst i can’t explain, but I don’t know those. I’m only referencing specifically to kontakt’s design flaw regarding the timing of cc’s and notes. Specifically, within any given process block (the elapsed time of the audio buffer), all the cc’s of that time period are processed before any of the notes. So the last cc switch would be the one used for all the notes of that time period, rather then exactly matching the cc switches to each note as was programmed in the daw.


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## Dewdman42 (Jun 30, 2021)

It goes without saying that each kontakt library has a lot of ksp programming that can cause hanging notes for any number of improper coding reasons


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## coprhead6 (Dec 7, 2022)

I fixed my hanging notes. 
I set CC64 to 0 in my midi editor and the hanging notes stopped. For some reason, the default state for my version of CSS has the sustain pedal on!


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## scoplunk (Dec 8, 2022)

I just got CSS a few weeks ago and have been having the hanging notes problem in Logic. And, I mean, really bad. I tried setting CC64 to 0 and that didn't work for me. I am using CC58 for my articulation maps, so that's still something to look at. But, like others have mentioned, I have problems with the Infinite series having stuck notes and they don't use articulations at all. I finally decided to turn off note chasing, just to see if that had anything to do with the problem and I haven't had a stuck note since. Hmm. I don't really like having that off, but I'm curious about why Logic's note chasing is messing up some of these Kontakt libraries and if there might be something that Apple or NI could do to fix this. I suspect that too much note data is being sent too quickly and it's not being processed correctly? But, that's just a guess...


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 8, 2022)

first question, which version of LogicPro are you using?

It could be related to many notes funneling, but I think unlikely. The way to reduce that likelihood is to go into audio prefs and set the following which can help, but you really have to be funneling quite a lot of notes at once to have that problem come up:






I'm not sure right now why note chasing would cause that to happen I will put some more thought into it in a few days, going to be away from computer for a few days.


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## scoplunk (Dec 8, 2022)

I'm on 10.7.4. I have my audio prefs set up like yours, except I have my Process Buffer set to Medium. I'll set it to Large and see if that makes a difference. Thanks!


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## scoplunk (Dec 8, 2022)

No, it seemed to be better for a minute, but I got hanging notes again even with the large buffer.


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## Saxer (Dec 8, 2022)

Try to switch of chase events (notes) in project settings (midi). Sometimes a bit inconvenient to work with but it helps here to avoid hanging notes.


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## scoplunk (Dec 9, 2022)

Saxer said:


> Try to switch of chase events (notes) in project settings (midi). Sometimes a bit inconvenient to work with but it helps here to avoid hanging notes.


Yes, this absolutely works for me. No hung notes if note chasing is off. I just would prefer that I didn't have to do that. It seems like it should be a solvable problem. Opus doesn't do that and I don't remember having these problems with my Kontakt Spitfire libraries or most of my other libraries, now that I think about it. CSS and Infinite series are the worst offenders for me in the hung note category.


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