# Midi sustain pedal?



## Mike Fox (Aug 27, 2020)

Looking for a midi sustain pedal that would allow CC control over dynamics, so that I can play polyphonic legato or sustain patches with both hands. Any inexpensive recommendations?

Thanks!


----------



## tack (Aug 27, 2020)

The Roland DP-10 is a continuous sustain pedal and I'm happy with it, however while it would technically work I don't think a sustain pedal is the right solution for dynamics control due to the spring. For that you really do need a proper expression pedal IMO, like the Yamaha FC7.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 27, 2020)

Sustain pedals are on/off. I have Kurzweil and Yamaha "volume" pedals, and both are fine.

Edit: FC7 as tack says. They've been around for ages and they last forever.


----------



## tack (Aug 27, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Sustain pedals are on/off.


Sustain pedals come in both discrete and continuous flavors. Continuous pedals are necessary for expressive piano performances allowing for partial pedaling. So there are legit sustain pedals that aren't just discrete on/off. But, yeah, I don't think they're the right mechanism for dynamics control.


----------



## tack (Aug 27, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> and they last forever


They're tanks. I always felt my FC7 would make a suitable tool in a pinch should I ever need to blugeon someone to death.


----------



## Mike Fox (Aug 27, 2020)

Thanks, guys! Ya'll rock!


----------



## Mike Fox (Aug 27, 2020)

tack said:


> The Roland DP-10 is a continuous sustain pedal and I'm happy with it, however while it would technically work I don't think a sustain pedal is the right solution for dynamics control due to the spring. For that you really do need a proper expression pedal IMO, like the Yamaha FC7.


Wait a minute, I actually already have the BOSS FV-500H.

I have a guitar cable going from the pedal's EXP out to midi keyboard's CC35 "sustain" input, but am having difficulty with getting my libraries to recognize it. Thoughts?

EDIT: My libraries recognize it, but it's just on/off. WTF is wrong here? is it because the BOSS pedal is just a volume pedal, and not an expression pedal? Or is it because I need a TRS cable?


----------



## Mike Fox (Aug 27, 2020)

Well, i can confirm that the cable has nothing to do with it. Must be the pedal. Looks like I'll be ordering the FC7!


----------



## ArthurNeeman (Aug 28, 2020)

I made my sustain pedal by self. Just two wooden plates, a hinge, spring, contacts and a cable to my old Yamaha CS1x sustain switch in. It works perfectly. Also tried to plug it into Yamaha MG12XU to switch FX channel on/off. It works! 




If thinking about expression/dynamics pedal, I am not sure it is reasonable to work with. Maybe for sketching, but not for serious work. For sketching for playing with both hands you can use velocity controlled dynamics (and left your feets for "metronome" purpose!). If you orchestrate each section one by one, your left hand always are free to work on modwheel. That's IMHO and I don't know your workflow.


----------



## chimuelo (Aug 28, 2020)

Yamaha FC7 and half pedaling using an FC4, but it’s really for the Harmonic pedal on PianoTeq.

Then there’s always specialty pedals with multiple CC and CV audio out assignments that really come in handy sometimes. Source Audio Reflex pedal below is an amazing hands free programmable device.


----------



## Al Maurice (Aug 28, 2020)

Technically there are two types of main pedals available:

ia). A straight forward toggle pedal often used as a sustain switch.

iia). there are others that emulate the half pedalling action available on a grand piano.

b). An expression pedal that can cater for variable levels, which you could use for dynamics.

Lots of manufacturers produce them. Although you'll ideally need one which can offer both polarities in the plus and minus direction as some keyboards and platforms use one or the other, usually provided by a switch.

You'll need to check which ones your set up can support, as not all are compatible.


----------



## chimuelo (Aug 28, 2020)

There’s the Ashby FX-7 adapters that allow me to use FC7’s on any controller.
Bought 6 of these when they were in production.
You could get their specs and make your own if you can’t find one.

My Physis K4 wouldn’t allow the FC7 even by switching it’s polarity.
I was in mourning until I found these.
I wear big ass boots when I gig in case my rig is threatened by drunks. FC7’s get stomped all night year after year. Can’t use those little MAudios or EV5s as accurately.


----------



## Polkasound (Aug 28, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> Wait a minute, I actually already have the BOSS FV-500H.
> 
> I have a guitar cable going from the pedal's EXP out to midi keyboard's CC35 "sustain" input, but am having difficulty with getting my libraries to recognize it. Thoughts?
> 
> EDIT: My libraries recognize it, but it's just on/off. WTF is wrong here? is it because the BOSS pedal is just a volume pedal, and not an expression pedal? Or is it because I need a TRS cable?



The "H" in FV-500H means it has a high impedance potentiometer. This works only for analog volume control of guitar signals. What you need is a pedal with a low impedance pot, which will work for analog volume control of keyboard signals and/or MIDI expression. Low impedance pots are what you'll find in pedals like the FV-500L or the Yamaha FC7. (Between these two pedals, I recommend the Yamaha. It has a smoother action.)

Expression and sustain are two separate control messages. If you're controlling them both with foot pedals, you'll need two inputs (although I believe with some keyboards, two pedals can be programmed and daisy chained into one input.) And you'll also need to use a TRS cable, not a TS guitar cable.


----------



## Mike Fox (Aug 28, 2020)

Polkasound said:


> The "H" in FV-500H means it has a high impedance potentiometer. This works only for analog volume control of guitar signals. What you need is a pedal with a low impedance pot, which will work for analog volume control of keyboard signals and/or MIDI expression. Low impedance pots are what you'll find in pedals like the FV-500L or the Yamaha FC7. (Between these two pedals, I recommend the Yamaha. It has a smoother action.)
> 
> Expression and sustain are two separate control messages. If you're controlling them both with foot pedals, you'll need two inputs (although I believe with some keyboards, two pedals can be programmed and daisy chained into one input.) And you'll also need to use a TRS cable, not a TS guitar cable.


Good to know! Thanks so much for the info! 

I went ahead and purchased the FC7 last night from Sweetwater. Looking forward to getting it!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 28, 2020)

tack said:


> Sustain pedals come in both discrete and continuous flavors. Continuous pedals are necessary for expressive piano performances allowing for partial pedaling.



So they do.


----------



## Mike Fox (Sep 3, 2020)

Alright, so I've got the FC7 plugged into my midi keyboard, but I can't get my libraries to acknowledge the pedal. 

Any ideas?


----------



## tack (Sep 3, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> so I've got the FC7 plugged into my midi keyboard, but I can't get my libraries to acknowledge the pedal.


Is it plugged into an expression port (rather than sustain)? What CC is the MIDI controller configured to send? If you attach a MIDI logger of some sort in your DAW (or in Kontakt), what do you see coming in when you move the pedal?


----------



## Mike Fox (Sep 3, 2020)

tack said:


> Is it plugged into an expression port (rather than sustain)?


I think that's the issue. I just realized that my keyboard doesn't have an expression port, but rather a sustain port.

My interface does have a midi in, so I wonder if a TRS to DIN adapter would do the trick?


----------



## tack (Sep 3, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> I wonder if a TRS to DIN adapter would do the trick?


I've not used one myself, but aren't those purely passive adapters? If so, that wouldn't work. Instead you'd need something like this.


----------



## Mike Fox (Sep 3, 2020)

tack said:


> I've not used one myself, but aren't those purely passive adapters? If so, that wouldn't work. Instead you'd need something like this.


Hm....

I think at that price i might be better off just buying an inexpensive midi keyboard that has an expression port. Know of any?


----------



## Doug Brock (Sep 16, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> Hm....
> 
> I think at that price i might be better off just buying an inexpensive midi keyboard that has an expression port. Know of any?


I do have a 25 key keyboard that has sustain and expression pedal inputs, but a smaller and cheaper option to consider is this 3-button midi foot switch that has an input for an expression pedal.


----------



## gsilbers (Sep 16, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> Looking for a midi sustain pedal that would allow CC control over dynamics, so that I can play polyphonic legato or sustain patches with both hands. Any inexpensive recommendations?
> 
> Thanks!








MIDI Expression







www.audiofront.net





+ 

any pedal


----------



## gsilbers (Sep 16, 2020)

behringer FCB1010 also works.


----------



## Mike Fox (Sep 26, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> MIDI Expression
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Alright, so I got the pedal interface (single port), but i can't seem to figure out how to prevent it from automatically controlling the volume of any patch I pull up in a Kontakt library.

I am able to assign the dynamics to the pedal, but not without it simultaneously controlling the volume. Ay ideas?

Thanks!

UPDATE: I just had to open the app and turn the assigned value to zero.


----------



## Mike Fox (Sep 26, 2020)

To make matters worse, Cubase decided to blacklist the expression midi device. I removed it from the blacklist, but Cubase now crashes every time I try to open it.

....oohhhh shiiiaaat!!!!

Is there a way to add it back to the blacklist without opening Cubase? Otherwise, I'm fu%$ed!!!

UPDATE: I was able to get back into Cubase by just deleting the midi expression vst file. Thank goodness!


----------



## Markrs (Sep 26, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> To make matters worse, Cubase decided to blacklist the expression midi device. I removed it from the blacklist, but Cubase now crashes every time I try to open it.
> 
> ....oohhhh shiiiaaat!!!!
> 
> ...


This might help





Safe Mode Dialog


The Safe Mode dialog contains troubleshooting options.




steinberg.help


----------



## Mike Fox (Sep 26, 2020)

Markrs said:


> This might help
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!

I think i might be in business now. I just had to delete that vst file, so I'm hoping it doesn't get automatically installed every time my computer detects the pedal.


----------

