# Piece for "World Class Marimbist" and String Quartet



## Dear Villain (Jun 8, 2021)

The Sword of Damocles is a dramatic, powerful, and gripping work for "world class marimbist" and string quartet. Owing to the demanding virtuosic writing for marimba, very few would actually be able to pull of the technical challenges of this piece in convincing fashion, save for the upper echelon of professional marimbists. As such, the piece may more accurately be coined as being for "virtual marimba and string quartet."




I share my very personal music with those few among you that may derive some enjoyment. Always love to hear from those willing to sit through the less than mainstream style 

Cheers!
Dave


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## Bollen (Jun 8, 2021)

It's gotta be your best work to date! Love the perfect balance between abstraction and tradition! 💕
Heard it four times!


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## Dear Villain (Jun 9, 2021)

Bollen said:


> It's gotta be your best work to date! Love the perfect balance between abstraction and tradition! 💕
> Heard it four times!


Bollen, thank you once again. It appears I may need to seek another forum for my style of music. Are there any you frequent other than VI?


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## ism (Jun 9, 2021)

I really do like this. Would love to hear it with a live strings.


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## Dear Villain (Jun 9, 2021)

ism said:


> I really do like this. Would love to hear it with a live strings.


Thanks, ism. Me, too. Trying to line up some projects with live musicians for later this year for other works...musicians need to get back to making live music and I hope to be part of that energy and enthusiasm that is missing from being locked up in a studio.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 9, 2021)

This is a fantastic piece. Loving it.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 9, 2021)

Dear Villain said:


> It appears I may need to seek another forum for my style of music.


If you don’t mind me asking; why?


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## Dear Villain (Jun 9, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> If you don’t mind me asking; why?


Oh, it's nothing against VI, just an acceptance on my part that my music is not in line with the majority of tastes here, as evidenced by the very few interactions I am generating with my pieces. I simply want a chance to connect with an audience in which I don't necessarily have to apologize for, or explain why I write what I write. A friend of mine, who is a very attractive model in her 20s once told me she played one of my CDs driving around town, just to shock cars at stop lights that couldn't believe someone that looked like her would blast classical music through her car speakers. 

That story kind of summarizes how I feel here sometimes. Since there are likely very few such forums that would be open to this type of music, I figured Bollen, with his interest in such, might know where I'm less a fish out of water. 

I still remain fully invested in this wonderful community.


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## Bollen (Jun 9, 2021)

Dear Villain said:


> It appears I may need to seek another forum for my style of music


Why is that caro mio? I tried several in the past and found them all rather lacking... Mostly amateurs writing first inversions triads  or pseudo-avant-garde only interested in themselves. In any case they all have hardly any activity...


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## Dear Villain (Jun 9, 2021)

Bollen said:


> Why is that caro mio? I tried several in the past and found them all rather lacking... Mostly amateurs writing first inversions triads  or pseudo-avant-garde only interested in themselves. In any case they all have hardly any activity...


Well, that's hardly surprising that there are more composers writing than audiences listening, but a sad realization none the less that we all need to grow and cultivate audiences if we're to have any chance of sustaining our work long term.

As for first inversion triads, well, thanks for ruining my next masterpiece, v7-i, v7-i, v7-i, v7-i...the rebel in me was planning to double the third on the tonic triad.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 9, 2021)

Gotcha. Although a lack of interaction does not necessarily indicate a lack of interest in / love for neo classical music. I just now became aware of your compositions.


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## Bollen (Jun 9, 2021)

Dear Villain said:


> Oh, it's nothing against VI, just an acceptance on my part that my music is not in line with the majority of tastes here, as evidenced by the very few interactions I am generating with my pieces. I simply want a chance to connect with an audience in which I don't necessarily have to apologize for, or explain why I write what I write.


Oh I see, hmmm...! Well if I may share a few thoughts and feelings on the matter. 

Back when I use to teach I would tell my students that if one decides to devote themselves to the art of music writing, then one must do it for the sake of the art itself, not for money, not for approval and certainly not for recognition. One must treat it like a religion i.e. your own private congress with god. Otherwise you'll be eternally chasing the carrot, trying to please everyone and never allowing your true voice to develop.

Now, admittedly the work of a writer is a lonely one and we all wish for a kind of "college community" type support group. But in reality composers are not the composer's market. They will only be interested in your work if you're doing something quite unique and/or special. The audience on the other hand is divided in two: 1.- the conservatives who prefer the "classics" or masters from the past (pre-approved) and 2.- the ones who seek new music, and as you said there are more composers than there are listeners in this group. But because of this they rely on filters such as labels, critics or orchestras to filter out the noise from the talent. Consequently you're back trying to impress critics, conductors, etc.

Now you could try a local group. I joined one a while ago through a site called Meetup. It was a lovely group of people and very supportive of each other albeit too amateur for me. Or you could also use my approach which is to think of myself as the next Vivaldi... i.e. I'll die without anyone ever knowing my music, but maybe in a couple of hundred years somebody will discover my scores under a rubble and I will become super popular...


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## jbuhler (Jun 9, 2021)

I love the play of moods in this piece. I’m not sure the issue is VI-C per se. It seems to me that internet fora are drawn to the meme-like, so brief, to the point, legible and contextually aware, but also at the extremes of emotional expressivity.


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## Dear Villain (Jun 9, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Gotcha. Although a lack of interaction does not necessarily indicate a lack of interest in / love for neo classical music. I just now became aware of your compositions.


You're absolutely right, doctoremmet. It's easy to forget that for every person that actually takes the time to write a comment, there could be dozens more happily listening while clipping their toe nails!

Cheers,
Dave


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## Dear Villain (Jun 9, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I love the play of moods in this piece. I’m not sure the issue is VI-C per se. It seems to me that internet fora are drawn to the meme-like, so brief, to the point, legible and contextually aware, but also at the extremes of emotional expressivity.


And this is exactly why live performances with a willing audience, are still so highly sought after. Notice I said "willing", if only because there are countless examples of even audiences paying hundreds of dollars a ticket, shuffling their feet in hopes of the ever drawn out music ending so they can go drink at the bar


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## Dear Villain (Jun 9, 2021)

Bollen said:


> Oh I see, hmmm...! Well if I may share a few thoughts and feelings on the matter.
> 
> Back when I use to teach I would tell my students that if one decides to devote themselves to the art of music writing, then one must do it for the sake of the art itself, not for money, not for approval and certainly not for recognition. One must treat it like a religion i.e. your own private congress with god. Otherwise you'll be eternally chasing the carrot, trying to please everyone and never allowing your true voice to develop.
> 
> ...


Thank you for such a thoughtful perspective. I'm PM'ing you...


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## ism (Jun 9, 2021)

So first, in praise of not only the composition, but the amazing job you’ve done in the mock up. Easily one of the best I’ve hear with the VSL. And I doubt there’s any other library that could have pulled off this kind of expressiveness, and I imagine that it's the best library in which to mock up a quartet written for real performance in this stye.

But there's also harsh reality this is one of the hardest of musicalities to make work with samples, and no sample libraries are presently adequate to it.

Which is to say - I really would like to hear this piece in particular with a real quartet performance.

The upside of this being that, well, I really would like to hear this piece in particular with a real quartet performance.

But the darker side of this being that I just ultimately don't like VSL very much at a raw, visceral level of embodied sonority. I know that perceptual experiences vary considerably, and there are moments when VSL sample are pristinely and breathtakingly beautiful ... but just as surely I find moments of an uncanniness endemic to the techniques required for samples to reach this kind of expressiveness (ie expressiveness worthy of real, classical, musicians). And purely on a level of sonority, I find difficult to listen to VSL solo strings as music.

I can and do listen to is as another of Dave's amazing compositions. And I can listen to it as a mock up that opens the imaginative space to understand how great it would sound with real musicians. But the uncanniness of the samples does, ultimately, takes a toll. So as music, without the abstract cognitive process of understanding it as a mock up, the uncanniness of the samples here eventually does get to me.

The bitter irony of course is that this is a piece that is designed to be listened to precisely as deeply engaging concert music, rather that underscore or filmic accompaniment, that I would absolutely throw on my iPod and listen to intently ... which is precisely why samples just can't quite get us there.

Record this with real string players (My ears are more forgiving of sampled Marimbas), throw it on iTunes and I'd happily buy it. But as a mock up, I'm necessarily in a kind of analytical mode accommodate the limitation of samples in this kind of a mock up. (I know many people experience VSL differently, and that's cool too, just saying this is my perceptual experience of the universe)

Of course, it is no criticism that you're writing for musicians and not computer. If I had the skill, this is exactly what I'd do also. But absent the skill, and likelihood of having my composition performed by real musicians, I write for what can be rendered convincingly with currently existing samples, which necessarily means that it's about 1% as expressive as a piece like this.

One of my first thought on hearing the very striking open sections was to ask if you might share the score so that I could study it ... except that it then quickly became clear that the musicality here isn't something that's remotely within my reach, for all the solo string libraries that I own. So regrettably, I think I need to focus on something a little more realistic in my own writing. 


But at the same time, I do take inspiration from the fact that there are composers here not so constrained, and I think it's great to be reminded just how constraining writing to samples is.


So that's one limitation. But another, I think, is the commercial nature of the vi-c medium, which means that member's composition threads typically get washed away in the onslaught of the typically very busy "should I buy..." , or "are we there yet... " commercial threads that don't call for thoughtful engagement in quite the way listening to and commenting on a composition does, and so have a natural disadvantage as the medium privileges threads for their volume of posts over thoughtfulness of posts.

There's been talk of tweaking the medium to allow member composition threads a little more oxygen via technical tweaks. And I think this would be a good avenue to pursue also. Because this is a great composition and a bigger audience would be to everyone's benefit.


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## Dear Villain (Jun 9, 2021)

Ism, there's a lot to unpack in your very thought-provoking post, but I first want to say thank you for taking the time to write it. Honestly, posts like yours are my reward for putting my stuff out there, often to crickets, sometimes to haters (yes, I have a fair number of them, it seems!) and occasionally to those of you on a thread like this that have renewed my enthusiasm for music.

I agree with you that the samples are just not there yet. When I started writing six years ago, sample libraries were never the end game for me. They were simply a means of creating a decent approximation of what a piece might sound like, in order to entice performers. What I discovered the more I worked with samples, was that often the performers I knew personally, were upset with how realistic these efforts were getting. I have told it before, but one cellist, a member of a prominent American orchestra was so upset with my use of samples, that we had a falling out for several years. 
The frustration we composers face, is without samples we have nothing. Live performances are always a struggle to make happen, and for the vast majority of the music we write, it will likely never see a concert stage. Samples allow us to at least present our work in the best possible light available to us, without begging and waiting for performers to give a voice to our music.

After a few live performances that were under-rehearsed (as most are apt to be due to funds, scheduling, etc.) I remember turning more to samples as a means of controlling my fate, so to speak. I'll never forget having done a midi performance of a 6 minute string trio, that when performed live, took the musicians 9 plus minutes. Yeah, the piece was called, "In the Blink of an Eye", and after the public performance, in which the audience looked dumbfounded, I wanted to crawl under my seat. Then, I wanted to pull out my ipod, and play the midi version for them so they could hear what the piece should sound like. 

In any case, I have had enough quality performances that remind me of the inadequacies of samples. Beyond the simple execution of a piece by live performers, there's the whole social and collaborative process that results in a much more satisfying experience than massaging midi data in front of a computer for hours on end. And of course, the energy of a performance in front of a live audience will never be replaced by a placement of a mock-up on Soundcloud.

I continue to write as if every piece is destined for live performers, but am grateful at least that samples exist even at the level they're at now, just so we can continue to be creative and productive. I've had performances that took literally years from initial discussion, to hitting the stage. With samples, I was able to put the first note to paper on this piece, and listen to the final output on my stereo a week later. 

As for finding an audience on VI-C, well, this post has exploded enough to sustain me for quite a while, and for those of you that have taken the time to listen and share your thoughts, thank you so much! 

I wish everybody that chooses to share their music here, the same kind and supportive audience I found with this piece. 

Cheers!
Dave


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## Gerald (Jun 11, 2021)

Great writing! Very interesting, I love really the dialog between string and marimba. Thanks for sharing.


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## re-peat (Jun 11, 2021)

I don’t know. My inner jury is still out, though I have a feeling it won’t come back with good news. What bothered me a bit ever since the first time I listened, you see, is that whatever musically audacious aspirations you may have — difficult to say from listening to this one piece — they are severely hampered by the ball-and-chain of comfortable diatonicism, convention and creative timidity. To me, this is music that brings to mind the poor cat in Shakespeare’s adage, the animal that lets “I dare not” wait upon “I would”.

Here’s what I’ve been thinking:

(1) You present and introduce your work as you deem best of course, but I don’t think the work is accurately described as “a dramatic, powerful and gripping piece for a world class marimbist”. I can’t say I heard any ‘drama’ (unless the good-natured, friendly interplay between the solo instrument and the string quartet qualifies as drama these days), I didn’t find it particularly ‘powerful’ either, and ‘gripping’ would be the last adjective that I’d use trying to describe my listening experience. Not that it’s bad or anything, absolutely not, it’s just that most of the music came and went, and … well, … that’s it. I allowed it to do so three or four times in a row during the past two days — it’s all a bit of a blur now, I must say — and each time the music simply slid off me like raindrops on an oilskin coat. Now, music needn’t be powerful, dramatic or gripping to be enjoyable, so I hope these things can be said without causing offense.

(2) How precisely this music is supposed to evoke, or relate to, the Damocles theme is completely beyond me as well, I must say. What you have here is, by and large, very accessible, easy-on-the-ear and completely conflict-free music. To my ears anyway. Largely diatonic too in its defining features. The tale of Damocles and Dyonisus II of Syracuse however, is one of gnawing jealousy, ruthless power, tyranny, threat, uninhibited decadence, impending doom and a brooding, sinister darkness. Try as I may, I really can’t connect the two. But I suppose this is of little importance. Then again, I can’t imagine the piece got its title by chance.

(3) I’m also of the opinion — we’re back with the music itself now — that the piece is rather poorly written for the marimba. The solo part, in other words, rarely speaks genuine _marimbese_, I find.
If you should learn that seasoned marimba players don’t seem all that keen on performing this piece, I’m convinced it’ll have nothing to do with the part being too difficult — technically, it sounds like mostly standard first grade fare to me, actually — but because it’s simply not an idiomatic, interesting or inspiring enough marimba part. A good player, and I’m not even talking about that “upper echelon of professionals”, won’t find anything here to sink his or her teeth into. There’s no challenge. The music uses only the flimsiest slice of the marimba’s timbral and expressive possibilities and is, as such, quite unable to bring out the best in either the performer or the instrument. My suggestion: talk to, and collaborate with a serious marimba player, and completely revise the part accordingly. If you were to dip your toes in the wondrous waters of contemporary marimba literature, you’ll quickly discover that idiomatic writing for the marimba, by composers who do understand the instrument, is something entirely different, on a whole different level both technically and musically, than what you’ve got happening in this piece.

_


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## Dear Villain (Jun 11, 2021)

Gerald said:


> Great writing! Very interesting, I love really the dialog between string and marimba. Thanks for sharing.


Thank you, Gerald. So glad you enjoyed it!

Cheers,
Dave


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## Dear Villain (Jun 11, 2021)

re-peat said:


> I don’t know. My inner jury is still out, though I have a feeling it won’t come back with good news. What bothered me a bit ever since the first time I listened, you see, is that whatever musically audacious aspirations you may have — difficult to say from listening to this one piece — they are severely hampered by the ball-and-chain of comfortable diatonicism, convention and creative timidity. To me, this is music that brings to mind the poor cat in Shakespeare’s adage, the animal that lets “I dare not” wait upon “I would”.
> 
> Here’s what I’ve been thinking:
> 
> ...


Thanks, re-peat for taking the time to craft such a thoughtful response. Appreciate your perspective but disagree wholeheartedly. Perhaps I'm guilty of descriptions and/or piece titles that don't align with your impressions, but I stand proudly behind my work. The intensity of your criticism illustrates more about your own character than it does about my music. You keep on being the cheerful ray of sunshine and that quagmire of knowledge so that others may bask in your glory 

Take care,
Dave


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## Rob (Jun 11, 2021)

but I had, in a milder way, an impression similar to that of Piet... both that the marimba part wasn't so daring as I was expecting given the presentation, and the rhythmic/harmonic content could not fully sustain my attention. The general feel of the piece I like, but was expecting more, from the point of view of the ability of the music to express psychological states... English isn't my language, so I apologize if my thoughts are unclear


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## Dear Villain (Jun 11, 2021)

Rob said:


> but I had, in a milder way, an impression similar to that of Piet... both that the marimba part wasn't so daring as I was expecting given the presentation, and the rhythmic/harmonic content could not fully sustain my attention. The general feel of the piece I like, but was expecting more, from the point of view of the ability of the music to express psychological states... English isn't my language, so I apologize if my thoughts are unclear


This is fair enough, Rob. I do believe that the biggest take away is to more carefully reflect on the power of titles, descriptions, and other presentation elements that influence a listener and shape their expectations. When the circus bills itself as "the greatest show on earth", there inevitably invites scrutiny and perhaps even a more ambitious desire to disprove such an outlandish statement. Perhaps, a simple, "here is a cute little ditty for elementary school trained marimba mallet banger and strings inspired by the gentle swaying of a blade of grass in the wind", would have been a more appropriate description. 

Cheers!
Dave


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## Bollen (Jun 11, 2021)

Dear Villain said:


> but disagree wholeheartedly


Well... It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's a valid opinion. Take it or leave it, I thought it was spot on. Doesn't dismiss the piece nor your talent.


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## ism (Jun 11, 2021)

Bollen said:


> Well... It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's a valid opinion. Take it or leave it, I thought it was spot on. Doesn't dismiss the piece nor your talent.


There is a principle of critique here about recognizing what something is. 

This is a terrible jazz piece. It's a terrible diggerydoo composition. It's a terrible serial Berg opera about extreme psychological distress and suffering and misery and debauchery. 

So the reflection on the title is particular interesting, in that perhaps it promise a slightly more dissonant experience that it delivers. And the harsher criticism are valid, if that's what the piece was attempting to do. 

But another risk of putting your music out for criticism on the internet is that punters offer as critique as preference for a different genre that they would prefer to be listening to a the moment. If you're in the kind of mood where you're really desperately in the mood for a serialist digerydoo opera, and listen to this piece ... it's not only in inauthentic for, of critical slight of hand, but also kind of narcissistic to critique the piece for it's failings as a serialist digerydoo opera rather that to just foreground that "yeah, I'd rather be listening to a serialist digeydoo opera that something like this". 

There's of course the modernist critique that all music that sounds good is a form of oppressive Bourgeois inauthenticity. And I believe this is why Schoenberg was so excited that the outbreak of the violence of First World War - somehow about how, finally, there was an opportunity redress the evil of all the French music sounding nice to listen to. 

But I think that history has shown this perspective to suffer from it's own limitations.


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## Dear Villain (Jun 11, 2021)

Bollen said:


> Well... It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's a valid opinion. Take it or leave it, I thought it was spot on. Doesn't dismiss the piece nor your talent.


Edit: I typed this prior to seeing ism's reply above. Thank you for expressing what I couldn't. 

Sure, it's a valid opinion, but one can absolutely disagree with a valid opinion. His opinion was drawn from his own sensibilities and experiences, and likely a preference (as you have) for a more adventurous and/or abstract harmonic language. One can perform a Bach Partita on the marimba and suggest that it doesn't excite a marimbist, as transcriptions for an unintended instrument don't reveal the instrument's capabilities vs. a composer exploring the instrument and all of its idiosyncrasies, with awareness of all its capabilities (and for sure, I'm no marimba expert, so I'm certain people are showcasing the instrument in a more impressive manner than I did here) but I know of one professional marimbist who built her reputation on such transcriptions, so...

In any case, we're beating a dead horse. Yes, it's a valid opinion, and I'm happy that others also agree with him. I also agree that based on his explanation for what he wanted out of the music, I didn't succeed in pleasing him. Such is life. My writing is not in line with his interest and that's perfectly ok. 

Cheers!
Dave


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## Bollen (Jun 11, 2021)

ism said:


> There is a principle of critique here about recognizing what something is.
> 
> This is a terrible jazz piece. It's a terrible diggerydoo composition. It's a terrible serial Berg opera about extreme psychological distress and suffering and misery and debauchery.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more... Well put!


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## re-peat (Jun 11, 2021)

ism said:


> There is a principle of critique here ...


Some of that I agree with, Ism, but I fail to see what it has to do with the discussion and with my earlier comments specifically. In complete contradiction to what you and Dave now suggest, my expectations regarding the piece were ENTIRELY formed by what he — the composer of the piece — wrote in his opening post: here, he told us, is a "dramatic, powerful, gripping piece" with a fiendishly difficult marimba part only playable by the “upper echelon of professional marimba players”. Yes? Yes. Moreover, we were informed, this was a piece of a “less than mainstream” nature and “not in line with the tastes” of the majority of V.I.-C’s membership. Right? Right.

So can you blame me for expecting something a little more daring, imaginative and unusual than what I ended up listening to? It's not that I hoped to hear something wildly experimental or impenetrable arcane, but there's a whole lot of interesting ground to be explored between that extreme and the rather well-behaved, ripple-free conventionality and conformity of the piece as it is, I believe. 
And I also think that, the marimba part just doesn't live up to its sensational introductory description, neither technically nor musically.

_


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## Dear Villain (Jun 11, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Some of that I agree with, Ism, but I fail to see what it has to do with the discussion and with my earlier comments specifically. In complete contradiction to what you and Dave now suggest, my expectations regarding the piece were ENTIRELY formed by what he — the composer of the piece — wrote in his opening post: here, he told us, is a "dramatic, powerful, gripping piece" with a fiendishly difficult marimba part only playable by the “upper echelon of professional marimba players”. Yes? Yes. Moreover, we were informed, this was a piece of a “less than mainstream” nature and “not in line with the tastes” of the majority of V.I.-C’s membership. Right? Right.
> 
> So can you blame me for expecting something a little more daring, imaginative and unusual than what I ended up listening to? It's not that I hoped to hear something wildly experimental or impenetrable arcane, but there's a whole lot of interesting ground to be explored between that extreme and the rather well-behaved, ripple-free conventionality and conformity of the piece as it is, I believe.
> And I also think that, the marimba part just doesn't live up to its sensational introductory description, neither technically nor musically.
> ...


My final response, which I suspect will be met with indifference, but..

My choice of words used to describe the piece was partially informed by a read-through of the piece by a professional marimba player. And in the interest of stating credentials, this individual has a Ph.D. Yes? Yes. This individual has taught at the university level for 20 years. Yes? Yes. This individual has a slew of professional recordings on notable record labels. Yes? Yes. This individual listened to the piece and suggested it was of advanced difficulty that would be quite an ordeal to put together. Yes? Yes. This individual suggested to me when I offered it to students in the program, that it was something that would be challenging for him, let alone his students. Yes? Yes.

As for stating that the piece is a "less than mainstream" nature and "not in line with the tastes" of the majority of the forum's membership, am I wrong in this assertion? Do you actually believe this is mainstream music? Perhaps in your world, this sounds like something you hear on top 40 radio compared to what you listen to, but to suggest that this is somehow so derivative, simplistic, and unimaginative in its "diatonicism" seems akin to the idea of a pot smoking, video game playing 30 year old in his parent's basement getting angry at the bright sunlight blinding him, when his mom turned on a 40 watt lightbulb and woke him from his trance. In other words, your perspective is skewed from clearly having expectations for what music is and/or should be based on your own proclivities, rather than an honest assessment of what others might enjoy/tolerate. This piece was very well-received by many, and it is equally ok that you dislike it, but don't go around suggesting that I was completely off-base with my description, simply because we come from two different ideas of what dramatic and gripping mean. And again, you may very well be right about the marimba part, from YOUR perspective. This marimba player is a proponent of new music, and while he didn't suggest it was "out there" (which of course it's not), he certainly didn't dismiss it the way you have. And I bet you aren't as good a marimba player as he is 

Cheers!
Dave


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## re-peat (Jun 11, 2021)

Dear Villain said:


> your perspective is skewed from clearly having expectations for what music is and/or should be based on your own proclivities



You keep saying that, Dave, but that’s simply not true. I do enjoy, with complete sincerity, the most simple, conventional, accessible and rule-abiding music, provided it is inspired and well-made. My alledged ‘proclivity’ for ‘difficult music’ only exists in your imagination, I’m afraid. It’s true, I’m not averse to a challenging musical encounter, but I can get equally excited by the most easy-on-the-ear, tuneful do-re-mi type of music, again provided it is the work of a gifted, dedicated and inspired composer.

And I’m completely open to what others might enjoy and/or tolerate musically. What makes you think, I wonder, that I’m not? I actually love to share and discuss music with people who see things completely differently than I do. If there’s intelligence, open-mindedness, talent and passion on both sides, such exchanges, even if they turn into fierce clashes of opinions, are far more interesting and inspiring, I find, than complacently rehashing long-arrived-at-agreements with someone like-minded.

So, that’s not what this is about. The point I’ve been making is that, in my view (and it appears I’m not alone), there’s something of a discrepancy between your words and your music. That’s not a big thing I suppose, it just struck me enough to mention it. 

If you start this thread under the title ‘Piece for “_World Class_ Marimbist” and String Quartet’ (my italics), you ought to be prepared, it seems to me, for the eventuality that the work might be listened to and reviewed accordingly and … found wanting. I didn’t set things up like that. You did.

Also, I didn’t ‘dismiss’ the marimba part, like you say. I only noted that, again in my opinion, it isn’t very well written for the instrument and could benefit from some marimba expertise. And that is something I’m dead sure your illustre professional player, if he or she exists anyway and is capable of honesty, will immediately agree with. (As your bad luck would have it, you see, I happen to know something about marimbas too.)

I also don’t “go around suggesting …”. I haven’t gone around anywhere with any of this, nor have I mentioned a word about your piece outside of this thread. I don’t have any intention to do so either. And that I’ve given you my opinion within the confines of this thread is perfectly normal I would think, as that is exactly what these type of threads are for. You started it hoping, I assume, to get some responses and opinions, no? If it then turns out that you’re too full of yourself, too self-deluded, too weak or too insecure — take your pick or, better still, pick all four — to deal with a less than rapturous comment, that is, again, not of my making nor my problem.

And finally: if, as yet another of your unverifiable claims suggests, the piece was already so well-received by *many*, then why are you so upset about what I — a single ‘cricket’ and one with peculiar proclivities — have to say about it?

_


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## Dear Villain (Jun 11, 2021)

I wish you well, re-peat. I also welcome any and all criticism from you on any other pieces I may have the fortune of drawing your attention to in the future. Enjoy your weekend 

Cheers!
Dave


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Jun 11, 2021)

Did you use VSL for the marimba as well? Or Pianoteq or maybe something else?
I don't know them well enough to distinguish between them.


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## Dear Villain (Jun 11, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Did you use VSL for the marimba as well? Or Pianoteq or maybe something else?
> I don't know them well enough to distinguish between them.


It is the VSL marimba. A true world class instrument.


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Jun 11, 2021)

Dear Villain said:


> It is the VSL marimba. A true world class instrument.


Very nice timbre indeed!


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## BlackDorito (Jun 11, 2021)

Dave - 

Here’s my not-so-harsh critique: it’s lively with a lot of local character, and I’m particularly enjoying the strings, both the writing and the realization. The first time I listened I was unsure where it was going harmonically at a macro level, but since I’ve now listened a few time I’m just letting the well-crafted local interplay of voices and figures wash over me. If those strings are VSL solo strings, they sound a lot better than anything I’ve coaxed out of them. I think @ism was saying he’s disappointed with the strings samples, but not me. OTOH, I’m not a big fan of the timbre of marimbas, so the solo marimba stretches are less interesting to me than when it’s in short rhythmic dialogue with the strings, which adds a lot of pizzazz. Whether there is some higher level of ‘marimbese’ that could transport me during those solo passages – who knows. Of yours, one of my favorites. -Chris


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## Dear Villain (Jun 12, 2021)

BlackDorito said:


> Dave -
> 
> Here’s my not-so-harsh critique: it’s lively with a lot of local character, and I’m particularly enjoying the strings, both the writing and the realization. The first time I listened I was unsure where it was going harmonically at a macro level, but since I’ve now listened a few time I’m just letting the well-crafted local interplay of voices and figures wash over me. If those strings are VSL solo strings, they sound a lot better than anything I’ve coaxed out of them. I think @ism was saying he’s disappointed with the strings samples, but not me. OTOH, I’m not a big fan of the timbre of marimbas, so the solo marimba stretches are less interesting to me than when it’s in short rhythmic dialogue with the strings, which adds a lot of pizzazz. Whether there is some higher level of ‘marimbese’ that could transport me during those solo passages – who knows. Of yours, one of my favorites. -Chris


Thank you, Chris. It's been a while, and I hope these challenging times find you well. They are the VSL strings, standard libraries. I have the extended now, but won't go back and re-do the piece. I wouldn't rely on the music to transport you. Rather listening alongside eating a tub of Hagen Daaz will do the trick 

Cheers!
Dave


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## patrick76 (Jun 12, 2021)

Dear Villain said:


> A friend of mine, who is a very attractive model in her 20s once told me she played one of my CDs driving around town, just to shock cars at stop lights that couldn't believe someone that looked like her would blast classical music through her car speakers.
> 
> That story kind of summarizes how I feel here sometimes.


You feel that you are like a very attractive model in her 20's that listens to classical music because she thinks people will be shocked by it..... ostensibly because she's too good looking and young to listen to such music? And the people of the forum here are the people around town, shocked that you listen to classical music? I don't get it!


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## Bollen (Jun 12, 2021)

patrick76 said:


> You feel that you are like a very attractive model in her 20's that listens to classical music because she thinks people will be shocked by it..... ostensibly because she's too good looking and young to listen to such music? And the people of the forum here are the people around town, shocked that you listen to classical music? I don't get it!


I find that statement so weird.... I've delved into a lot of genres (jazz, folk, world, classical) and by far the most beautiful women are in classical. In terms of numbers not of beauty....


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## Dear Villain (Jun 12, 2021)

patrick76 said:


> You feel that you are like a very attractive model in her 20's that listens to classical music because she thinks people will be shocked by it..... ostensibly because she's too good looking and young to listen to such music? And the people of the forum here are the people around town, shocked that you listen to classical music? I don't get it!


Oh boy. Not sure if this is trolling, but...

The model made it a point to purposely play my music, knowing she would shock and confound those around her. She didn't mean to hurt my feelings with her experiment, but basically was saying, "Dave, your music doesn't align with what people would perceive someone young and cool to listen to." All I'm saying, is knowing that my music is not "young and cool" on this forum, I was curious if there were forums where my music would not stick out as much, and/or be received by those that are more into my style. (and to save some stupid smart ass comment from someone: music for "old and uncool" people) 

Take care,
Dave


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## patrick76 (Jun 12, 2021)

Dear Villain said:


> Oh boy. Not sure if this is trolling, but...
> 
> The model made it a point to purposely play my music, knowing she would shock and confound those around her. She didn't mean to hurt my feelings with her experiment, but basically was saying, "Dave, your music doesn't align with what people would perceive someone young and cool to listen to." All I'm saying, is knowing that my music is not "young and cool" on this forum, I was curious if there were forums where my music would not stick out as much, and/or be received by those that are more into my style. (and to save some stupid smart ass comment from someone: music for "old and uncool" people)
> 
> ...


I think if you're looking for "old and uncool", from my understanding of your meaning, this is probably the place. I wouldn't call it that, but I certainly wouldn't call it "young and cool" either, lol. Good luck on your quest, and tell your model friend there are much better ways to shock and confound the masses


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## b_elliott (Jun 13, 2021)

re-peat said:


> I don’t know. My inner jury is still out, though I have a feeling it won’t come back with good news. What bothered me a bit ever since the first time I listened, you see, is that whatever musically audacious aspirations you may have — difficult to say from listening to this one piece — they are severely hampered by the ball-and-chain of comfortable diatonicism, convention and creative timidity. To me, this is music that brings to mind the poor cat in Shakespeare’s adage, the animal that lets “I dare not” wait upon “I would”.
> 
> Here’s what I’ve been thinking:
> 
> ...


Tl;dr Loved it as well as @re-peat 's and @ism 's input.

As a fellow composer, without intending to hi-jack this thread, I am currently in the midst of a piece (Bach in Black) I first thought best to do much later when I have the chops. It has all the potential of challenging the listener to simply being drivel.

However, BWV 1077 (a canon) keeps impinging in my little universe "Try me. This will work."

Hats off to Dear Villain for posting. I like how this thread traversed the vi-community; hopefully I can learn from it then follow suit down the road. Cheers, Bill


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