# Cheap vs Expensive Sound Cards



## SBK (Sep 12, 2016)

Hi guys,

What are the diferencies between a cheap sound card vs an expensive one?

I currently have Focusrite scarlett, what are the big differences if I go to a UA Apollo twin for example?

I am very curious to hear your comments! Thank you!


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## Noam Guterman (Sep 12, 2016)

Is your room acoustically treated?


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## SBK (Sep 12, 2016)

Noam Guterman said:


> Is your room acoustically treated?


Yes! Prety much


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## dcoscina (Sep 12, 2016)

Do we even call audio interfaces "sound cards" any more?


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## dcoscina (Sep 12, 2016)

SBK said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> What are the diferencies between a cheap sound card vs an expensive one?
> 
> ...



I'm assuming the AD converters are better, the mic pre amps, some bells and whistles like number of inputs, generally build quality, software & drivers. Doesn't always stand true. I had issues with latency and connectivity with a Babyface whereas my Steinberg UR22 is a tank and works flawlessly with my system. Now that is connected to my smaller Mac system. I have a MOTU 2408 Mk3 PCI-e interface on my big rig and have been looking into getting their Ultralite AVB to replace it once I move up to a Thunderbolt Mac Pro (used of course- no trash can for moi).


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## Baron Greuner (Sep 12, 2016)

I have a friend currently in Canada that does not use a sound card (audio unit) and he's one of the best library music writers in the business. How the fcuk he gets his mixes to sound the way they do makes me jealous, envious, glutiness, slothful....you name it. So you don't actually need one.

But we had a conversation recently about the Apollo Twin and I suspect he will look at one in the future. I have one and if you're into using UAD plugins, as I am quite a lot but not exclusively, then they are probably the best out there at that price and the sound quality is fantastic.


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## pixel (Sep 12, 2016)

-More inputs
-Better Preamps
-Better DAC (which is the most important part of audio interface) but more expensive is not always equal to 'better'

Ps. at home I have Scarlett too and my mixes are accurate anywhere else so IMO this audio interface is really good especially for that price.


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## Noam Guterman (Sep 12, 2016)

1. Do you need more inputs/outputs?
2. Do you need to achieve the next sonic clarity and level?

For 1, you should probably upgrade your interface to something with more connection options.
For 2, if your room and monitors are really good, you would really benefit from high end converters. But that's the order of importance, room -> monitors -> converters


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## synthpunk (Sep 12, 2016)

And most importantly access to UAD plugins many of which are top notch. And keeping them off your DAW's cpu.

Beyond that quality and versatility. The Apollo Quad replaced about 10 boxes for me. 8 analog in/out, ADAT Digital I/O, Quality digital clock, Quality A/D & D/A conversion, 4 quality clean mic pre's, 2 headphone amps, Master Monitor, Thunderbolt expansion, UAD plugin host.

Word of warning though, a Apollo dual will go through plugin dsp pretty quick and you will wanting to add a UAD Satellite 



pixel said:


> -More inputs
> -Better Preamps
> -Better DAC (which is the most important part of audio interface) but more expensive is not always equal to 'better'
> 
> Ps. at home I have Scarlett too and my mixes are accurate anywhere else so IMO this audio interface is really good especially for that price.


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## SBK (Sep 12, 2016)

Hi guys, no I don't need many inputs or outputs... I just want to listen to what differences the quality of DAC does. Like I will hear more clearly frequencies and noises etc?


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## pixel (Sep 12, 2016)

Read this article and all the comments. Some hear difference some don't. It's the same kind of topic like 44,1kHz or higher - as many opinions as many people in chat and at the end there's no one ultimate answer  
http://therecordingrevolution.com/2...-converters-were-bad-until-someone-told-me-2/

From technical point of view, yes, better DAC gives you better sound quality. It's about how accurate is translation from digital to analog signal. Do everyone will hear difference? Absolutely not. It's totally subjective and as usual people can be easily cheated that they hear difference because they're suggested by price. But later they're shocked when they find out that these two different audio interfaces have the exactly the same DAC chip. 

The only one way is to find out by yourself by doing tests. IMO if your mixes are really good/great then you can make improvement from really expensive DAC interface (it simply makes your job even more efficient). But if you're looking how to improve your mixes because you're not satisfied then I doubt that DAC actually make any difference (because DAC in Scarlett is good enough to make really good mixes).


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## Baron Greuner (Sep 12, 2016)

I am medically addicted to certain UAD plugins.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 12, 2016)

Honestly, if you don't need quality preamps and more inputs, forget about it.


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## SBK (Sep 12, 2016)

Hey guys, if I have an expensive sound card, will I have more power for plugins aswell? Can I load more plugins with UA Apollo twin versus Scarllet 6i6? Thanks!


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## wst3 (Sep 12, 2016)

is there an echo in here....

cheap vs expensive is probably not the best way to frame the question, but if you are thinking about upgrading then yes, there are differences between brands and even models within a brand.

On the output side, well, the rest of your monitor system (room, monitor loudspeakers, ears) has to be up to the task, but I believe that there are audible differences between Digital-to-Analog converters, and ironically a lot of the differences tend to be found in the analog side - the converter chips are pretty mature... till they change again<G>!

On the input side I think the differences are a bit less subtle, especially with respect to microphone preamplifiers. Previously I've avoided audio interfaces with microphone preamplifiers built in. This time around I tried a couple and was pretty happy with the results.

Then there are the bells and whistles - number of inputs and/or outputs, analog vs digital ins and outs, monitor controller, and DSP come to mind. These are features, and won't necessarily have a direct or significant impact on what you hear.

So ok, specifics? I used a Frontier Design Dakota/Montana interface with four of their Tango interfaces. It worked out quite well for me, and I managed to keep them alive for a very long time. Then, about a year or so ago I needed to upgrade my DAW and could no longer depend on PCI slots. I lucked out, a friend loaned me a Presonus 1818VSL... the D/A side sounded as good as the Tango, maybe even a tad better, especially at higher sample rates. I would not call the difference astounding, and really, I'm so used to the Tango that I'm not even sure I'd call it better, but it is different.

On the input side I was really quite pleased with the line level inputs, and would say that they were a little better than the Tango. I was not, however, thrilled with the microphone preamplifiers, and tended to continue to use outboard microphone preamplifiers.

I was also a little dismayed at the internal DSP. It would be great for a live gig, but I just felt it didn't go far enough for what I'm used to doing. Since DSP was not a deciding factor I bought one.

Then this past spring I had the opportunity to buy an Apollo Twin USB. I'm really happy with it. The D/A side is as good as, or better than any of my others. The A/D side is better than the Tango, and at least as good as the Presonus. And the microphone preamplifiers are really good all by themselves, and amazing when used with UA Unison plug-ins. Much better than I expected.

And then there are the UA plug-ins - I'm a fan, so that was a part of the appeal. My only complaint is that it is really is two inputs, and I'd have to spend quite a bit to expand them. But I knew that going in, and I can still use the Tango or 1818VSL converters if need be.

Is an Apollo of any size what you need? Only you can decide...


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## pixel (Sep 12, 2016)

SBK said:


> Hey guys, if I have an expensive sound card, will I have more power for plugins aswell? Can I load more plugins with UA Apollo twin versus Scarllet 6i6? Thanks!



Here is the chart of how many plugins (and which one) you can run on Apollo Twin (DUO as there are two dsp units in Twin) and other audio interfaces: 
http://www.uaudio.com/support/uad/compatibility/instance-chart.html

Remember that it's about their UAD plugins. UAD doesn't support 3rd party plugins


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## SBK (Sep 12, 2016)

pixel said:


> Here is the chart of how many plugins (and which one) you can run on Apollo Twin (DUO as there are two dsp units in Twin) and other audio interfaces:
> http://www.uaudio.com/support/uad/compatibility/instance-chart.html
> 
> Remember that it's about their UAD plugins. UAD doesn't support 3rd party plugins



Actually I think you misunderstood me. Also I didn't know UA Apollo twin can't load 3rd party plugins?

I am talking about a cheap soundcard vs an expensive one, does the expensive one have more power to load plugins in DAW without causing cpu spikes?

Thanks a lot!


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## pixel (Sep 12, 2016)

SBK said:


> Actually I think you misunderstood me. Also I didn't know UA Apollo twin can't load 3rd party plugins?
> 
> I am talking about a cheap soundcard vs an expensive one, does the expensive one have more power to load plugins in DAW without causing cpu spikes?
> 
> Thanks a lot!



So the answer is: no. Audio interfaces (except specific situation like UAD) don't have DSP processors. CPU handle everything.


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## Baron Greuner (Sep 12, 2016)

First of all, the Apollo Twin is not really expensive compared to a lot of rack mounted audio units. It represents very good value for money. What can get a bit expensive is buying UAD plugs if indeed they are required, but you can use any 3rd party plugin in your DAW regardless of whatever sound card/audio unit that you use.


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