# Mini PC with 128GB ram?



## osterdamus (Jul 14, 2021)

I’ve personally only seen mini PCs like Intels NUC series with 64GB as the max.

Wondering if anyone has spotted any mini PCs that allow for 128 GB or more?


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## Technostica (Jul 14, 2021)

The issue may be that most mainstream CPUs only support desktop RAM that tops out at 32GB per stick. So as small form factor boards tend to only support dual sticks, that explains the 64GB limit. So you are either looking for a board that supports 4 sticks or more likely one that supports 64GB sticks. 
Not sure whether the later requires server class CPUs though. You have more chance of getting this via a custom build, rather than an off the shelf NUC style device I suspect.


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## osterdamus (Jul 14, 2021)

Technostica said:


> The issue may be that most mainstream CPUs only support desktop RAM that tops out at 32GB per stick. So as small form factor boards tend to only support dual sticks, that explains the 64GB limit. So you are either looking for a board that supports 4 sticks or more likely one that supports 64GB sticks.
> Not sure whether the later requires server class CPUs though. You have more chance of getting this via a custom build, rather than an off the shelf NUC style device I suspect.


Thanks for the input! Last custom build PC I made was in 2011, in mini-ATX size. But since I only build so seldom, it’s like coming back to technology all over with new standards and speeds, and I’m investigating the possibilities of mini PCs (or something of somewhat similar form factor), so avoid the whole process of finding compatible parts. But if I can’t find it, I’m open to building one myself again.


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## Technostica (Jul 14, 2021)

You may find a smaller manufacturer that makes something suitable. 
It might be aimed at industrial usage or for specialised areas so might not be ideal. 
Expect it to be expensive too. 

I had a quick look on NewEgg and they stock a few mini ITX boards with the required RAM support. 
But they seemingly only support up to 6 core CPUs and relatively older ones. 
Some come with a Xeon D CPU included but the clock speeds are very low. The chip is probably soldered to the board 
The ones without will take a faster CPU though. 
E.g.








AsRock Rack E3C246D4I-2T Mini-ITX Server Motherboard Intel LGA 1151 C246 - Newegg.com


Buy AsRock Rack E3C246D4I-2T Mini-ITX Server Motherboard Intel LGA 1151 C246 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


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## Technostica (Jul 14, 2021)

Here's a current gen AMD board:





ASRock Rack > X570D4I-2T







www.asrockrack.com


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## osterdamus (Jul 14, 2021)

Technostica said:


> Here's a current gen AMD board:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, let's just say that the experience is like last time. Gotta learn the new standards all over again, but actually curious now. 

$500-ish


$370-ish for the first 64GB.


(assuming they fit the board)

... tried to find 1-2 TB SSD disk, but result were fuzzy. Same with CPU. Does it state that it actually supports (edit) eight disks?

Where would I land with this, you think, $12-1400?


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## Technostica (Jul 15, 2021)

That board uses laptop memory, so you would require something like this:


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## d.healey (Jul 15, 2021)

When DDR5 comes out hopefully we'll see some higher capacity modules for mini-itx and other small form factor boards.


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## Paulogic (Jul 15, 2021)

My 2020 Intel Mini has 32 GB, which was the maximum Apple provided.
I thought this was the maximum for this machine (I7) or am I wrong?
Then I should consider upgrading to 64...


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## osterdamus (Jul 15, 2021)

d.healey said:


> When DDR5 comes out hopefully we'll see some higher capacity modules for mini-itx and other small form factor boards.


Do you know of any timeframe for that?


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## Technostica (Jul 15, 2021)

The first DDR5 consumer platform is due around October via Intel.
Not sure if they will actually be generally available at retail at that point.
Also, due to the new architecture, you will require Windows 11 to get the best out of it unless MS port the new scheduler to version 10 also.

No guarantee that the initial chips will support 64GB sticks as they may keep that for a later platform.
Higher density sticks are seen primarily as a server/workstation feature.


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## Technostica (Jul 15, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Where would I land with this, you think, $12-1400?


It depends on the exact configuration that you want as the price range will be vast depending on the components you choose.
The boards are expensive ($450+), the RAM will be around $550-600 and the current gen AMD CPUs start close to $300.
So that's ~$1,300 for just those 3 components.

I wouldn't suggest waiting for DDR5 as a new RAM platform is usually very expensive at launch.
So you may be paying twice as much for the RAM, or at the very least 50% more.


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## manorizz (Oct 21, 2021)

Ciao , very interesting post. Are you able to share a configuration of this MiniPC please? I need to compose one for my private lab and I only know that 128 256 GB RAM is desiderable....probably 8Core (at least)


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## kaiyoti (Nov 3, 2021)

@manorizz this was my "mini pc" set up that has 128gb ram before i rebuilt it into a server in my garage. I can only go down as low as itx.

The only consumer ITX motherboard that takes 4 slots of so-dimm (laptop) ram that i know of at the time (2 years ago) is Asrock X299e-itx and i have 32gb ddr-2666 on each slot making total of 128gb. It comes in two types, server and consumer. Currently both are expensive. Consumer version comes with 3 m.2 slots so that'll be more "mini". Supports 9th and 10th gen i9 extreme processors. For mine i use a i9-9980xe.

The challenge is cooling this sucker as its a 165w cpu. Dynatron has a few 1u coolers for low profiles and even a 1u water cooler. I use a dynatron r15 air cooler. With a fan on top. It was hot and loud most of the time. But it did not throttle.

The cpus for this board do not have integrated graphics. So you need a graphics card. And there are no displayport over type c connectors. So that'll add to your "size". In theory you have two options to avoid this, one is to use displaylink adapter. You'll need graphics card to do initial set up, but once you have it set up... And you are sure you dont need to mess with BIOS in the foreseable future, use a usb to hdmi display link adapter. It'll cost your cpu a small bit to do the video out but worth while for size imo. The other option is to make this computer remote only, not tje best option.

For computer case, i had a dan A4 case, which is smaller than most desktop builds but if you really want to go mini, look into j-hack pure for case and hdplex for power. J-hack pure also have their own kit with mean well power supply too which is more compact than hdplex. This will make this computer be powered without a brick power cable as the brick is inside.

I believe asrock came out with another itx with 4 slots of ram and is AM4 mentioned earlier in the thread... it is called ASROCK X570D4I-2T. And it comes with a VGA output so no graphics card or workaround needed. And AM4 have a wider array of CPUs to choose from.

Alternatively, there are a sleuth of AMD EPYC itx with 4 slot rams from supermicro and asrock that are geared towards server use. But many of these are SoC so you can't choose cpu, and are normally clocked lower.


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## gsilbers (Nov 9, 2021)

Well, this was fun.. would be cool to have a tiny VEP sample server pc. 




https://pcpartpicker.com/list/JVKKy4



not sure if all the rcomponents are the best choice but around $2k. 

which basically means you could get two mac minis w 64gb of ram and stack them up each other. have less noise.


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## kaiyoti (Nov 9, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> Well, this was fun.. would be cool to have a tiny VEP sample server pc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's a bit of an unfair comparison given that the 4TB you selected drive is around 45% the cost of the total build, it's also wasted as it's PCIE gen 4 and the board is gen 3. And the storage is a cost you'd incur if you were to purchase that on a mac mini as well. With the itx board, you can split that 4TB into 3 smaller-sized ones that are generally more favorable in terms of cost not to mention higher bandwidth availability than a single drive. And I wouldn't count of mac mini's being less noise.

Given that VEP is not available on Mac Mini M1s yet and the m1's don't have more than 16gb memory, it can only be compared to a 2018 mac mini and to match the 64gb and 2TB drive on each mac mini, a single mac mini would cost $2900 according to Apple's website. Two mac mini's would cost close to 6K.


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## gsilbers (Nov 9, 2021)

kaiyoti said:


> It's a bit of an unfair comparison given that the 4TB you selected drive is around 45% the cost of the total build, it's also wasted as it's PCIE gen 4 and the board is gen 3. And the storage is a cost you'd incur if you were to purchase that on a mac mini as well. With the itx board, you can split that 4TB into 3 smaller-sized ones that are generally more favorable in terms of cost not to mention higher bandwidth availability than a single drive. And I wouldn't count of mac mini's being less noise.
> 
> Given that VEP is not available on Mac Mini M1s yet and the m1's don't have more than 16gb memory, it can only be compared to a 2018 mac mini and to match the 64gb and 2TB drive on each mac mini, a single mac mini would cost $2900 according to Apple's website. Two mac mini's would cost close to 6K.



ah interesting about the ram. i used park picker and didnt see other options for 128gb ram. maybe there are. 

yes mac mini 2018, used.. about $1,200k or so maybe less installing your own ram.


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## kaiyoti (Nov 9, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> ah interesting about the ram. i used park picker and didnt see other options for 128gb ram. maybe there are.
> 
> yes mac mini 2018, used.. about $1,200k or so maybe less installing your own ram.


Mac mini 2018 do not have user upgradeable ram and storage, they are soldered. You are at the mercy of the preconfig prices.

[Edit] looks like only storage is soldered

I think a better comparison would be 2 x Minisforum HM90, which would be around 900 each after nvme and ram upgrades after. Comes with windows license. And still have room to add more ssds. It also does not use a blower style fan, so there will be less noise.


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## gsilbers (Nov 21, 2021)

kaiyoti said:


> Mac mini 2018 do not have user upgradeable ram and storage, they are soldered. You are at the mercy of the preconfig prices.
> 
> [Edit] looks like only storage is soldered
> 
> I think a better comparison would be 2 x Minisforum HM90, which would be around 900 each after nvme and ram upgrades after. Comes with windows license. And still have room to add more ssds. It also does not use a blower style fan, so there will be less noise.


yes, only the storage. the ram in the mac mini is upgradable to 64gb of ram and buying used for this purposed would be 64gb or ram one one computer for about $1200. maybe less. I guess 128gb would be $2400 (buying tw0) but its a little cumbersome to have 2 units plus i think vep charges per server now. Or have one for sequencing and the other for samples would be a neat setup as its small.

so its a decent system for 64gb ram sampler/vep. Hopefully someone can figure out a 128gb PC version at decent prices. mini itx or something that even older i5/i7 will be enough. Soon all macs will have soc/apple silicon processors and ram might be extremely overpriced past the 32/64gb ram as apple likes to do it.


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## d.healey (Nov 21, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> mini itx


Mini ITX DDR4 max is 64GB - unless you find some obscure board that can take more. With DDR5 we might see ITX supporting 128GB but I haven't seen 64GB modules or an ITX board that support 128GB yet.


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## gsilbers (Nov 21, 2021)

d.healey said:


> Mini ITX DDR4 max is 64GB - unless you find some obscure board that can take more. With DDR5 we might see ITX supporting 128GB but I haven't seen 64GB modules or an ITX board that support 128GB yet.



maybe i got it wrong but using the tecnostica linked above it says it can hold 4 slots and there are 64gb 2x32. so 4 woult be 128gb. I do have an asrock x99 that says the limit is 64gb w i7 5820k but added 128gb and it worked. so maybe its similaR? i havent dont lots of research on the limitation though or if anyone tried 128gb. that board spec says 128gb ram limit.


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## d.healey (Nov 21, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> maybe i got it wrong but using the tecnostica linked above it says it can hold 4 slots


Yep that's one of the obscure boards  it uses laptop RAM. Nearly £400!


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## gsilbers (Nov 21, 2021)

So i kinda priced it at around $1,305.72 (missing PSU and case and maybe a few other things)

the cases seem to be pretty big for a small unit called mini itx andf didnt know if those sized as the mac mini would work or if the psu would fit.

anyways, pretty cool if it did. very good price even if it reached $1500 mark. I think these might be useful for apple folks if apple decided to charge the bejeezus out of having more than 64gb of ram (on their future apple silicon macs) like they noramlly have done in the past.


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## gsilbers (Nov 21, 2021)

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## d.healey (Nov 21, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> the cases seem to be pretty big .


That particular board would also need a graphics card since it doesn't have any iGPU IO ports, so it wouldn't fit in a mini case.

If I was going for a mini PC today I'd probably get something like this - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002443541911.html


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## gsilbers (Nov 21, 2021)

d.healey said:


> That particular board would also need a graphics card since it doesn't have any iGPU IO ports, so it wouldn't fit in a mini case.
> 
> If I was going for a mini PC today I'd probably get something like this - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002443541911.html



woudnt the vga count if it will be used with remote desktop? not sure about igpu stuff do dunno. vga would be good enough for me. 


that little one does look cool. too bad it reaches up to 64 only. maybe in the future w dd5 like you said those will get to 128gb ram. something like that at 128gb already setup would be ideal.


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## d.healey (Nov 21, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> woudnt the vga count if it will be used with remote desktop


Oh I mistook that for a serial debug port. Yeah I guess that would be ok, more limited on resolutions but if it's for a remote desktop then it's a none-issue. But if you're using it remotely why would you want a mini PC?


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## kaiyoti (Nov 21, 2021)

The issue with the little PCs has been that they always used blower style fans. Making them very loud... Including mac minis. The Minisforum hx90 and hm90 doesnt use blower fans and have liquid metal for heatsink contact. I have one on the way and will report back on its use as a vep server.

And I do agree that its a bit cumbersome to have two. Which is why I just decided to put everything into a server rack. But for people who need to travel with their mini pc, having two is kinda difficult to work with. 

AFAIK, the asrock x299e itx is the only consumer itx motherboard (not rack/server) that supports 128gb. Consumer being that it doesn skimp on m.2 slots. Most rack boards will just have sata ports.


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## Dracarys (Jan 13, 2022)

I was debating this but I'll probably go for Micro ATX.

Anyone know if there is a disadvantage to using 32gb x 4 ram versus 16gb sticks?

Thanks!


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## 3CPU (Jan 14, 2022)

Dracarys said:


> I was debating this but I'll probably go for Micro ATX.
> 
> Anyone know if there is a disadvantage to using 32gb x 4 ram versus 16gb sticks?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes! A better approach then going Nuc's. But a Micro ATX could be challenging especially if based on a high-end processor that requires larger CPU cooler. Or you could go non-K, i9-12900, that should be fine for a Micro ATX build. 

2x16 provides an option to upgrade to 64GB later on, if for example demands for large high-end sampled based orchestral mock-up is a possibility. That be my choice, your needs might differ.


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## Dracarys (Jan 15, 2022)

3CPU said:


> Yes! A better approach then going Nuc's. But a Micro ATX could be challenging especially if based on a high-end processor that requires larger CPU cooler. Or you could go non-K, i9-12900, that should be fine for a Micro ATX build.
> 
> 2x16 provides an option to upgrade to 64GB later on, if for example demands for large high-end sampled based orchestral mock-up is a possibility. That be my choice, your needs might differ.


But in terms of sample streaming and performance, no difference in dimm sizes? I plan to water cool Ryzen 7000, might be able to squeeze it in there! I would prefer a compact case for travel purposes this time around. 2tb NVMe x 4 via PCIe adapter, then my OS will be on a 1tb NVMe via m.2 connector. Maybe a 1tb Sata ssd drive for extra samples and sessions.


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## gsilbers (Feb 18, 2022)

found this one







__





SYS-5019A-FTN4 | 1U | SuperServers | Products | Super Micro Computer, Inc.






www.supermicro.com





Im guessing the fan noise will sound like a plane like most server racks.

If anyone knows about a rack server that size that can load 128gb ram and work good enough for sample library playback... then im all ears  
Well.. if there is a good enough fan/cpu for noise perf ratio


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