# Harry Potter Strings Expo 2015!



## Stradibaldi (Apr 5, 2015)

o/~ o/~ *Harry Potter Strings Expo 2015* o/~ o/~

*LIBRARIES WE ARE MISSING*
Berlin Strings

Cinestrings and Cinematic Strings 2

VSL?


*LIST OF DEMOS*

[flash width=500 height=500 loop=false]https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=https://soundcloud.com/stradibaldi/sets/string-libraries-comparison[/flash]

*Real Orchestra (excerpt at 2:42)*



This thread is an opportunity to compare string libraries using a single 20-second test passage from _Harry Potter_ by John Williams. Pick your favorite string library and have at it! Ideally put your work on SoundCloud, and I will update this post with all the entries.

It's okay to use a library that someone else has already featured. The more the merrier! The *only rule is that you must use the dry "out of the box" sound of the library.* No reverb or other effects!

The passage I've chosen is from Harry Potter. It's only *13 measures* but showcases several string articulations:

1. _*Lyrical legato!*_
2. *Exposed violins* in *unison* and *octaves*.
3. _*Runs of 16ths*_ and *flowing triplets*.
4. *Staccato*, *marcato* and some *spiccato* in lower strings.

Here is the passage. 

*Link to my transcription**
*


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## Stradibaldi (Apr 6, 2015)

To get the ball rolling, here is *LA Scoring Strings bone dry* (not even any stage/color). 

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F199579567&secret_url=false[/flash]

Non Flash Link: https://soundcloud.com/stradibaldi/la-scoring-strings-bone-dry

I love the dark sound of the low violas in this library. I find the FC+A+B+C approach has lots of detail and liveliness but the FC has to be turned down by about 3-6dB to achieve the right balance.

By all means don't let this be the last word on LASS if anyone else wants to turn in a LASS demo.  

And, just for laughs, here is *Garritan Personal Orchestra* playing inside Finale:


[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F199581507&secret_url=false[/flash]

Non Flash Link: https://soundcloud.com/stradibaldi/garritan-inside-finale


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## germancomponist (Apr 6, 2015)

:roll:


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## Stradibaldi (Apr 6, 2015)

germancomponist @ Mon Apr 06 said:


> :roll:



:?:


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## vicontrolu (Apr 7, 2015)

Here´s a try with 8Dio´s:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7wmo3qzzsrcic ... o.mp3?dl=0

It could be given more love though


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## FriFlo (Apr 7, 2015)

Stradibaldi @ Mon Apr 06 said:


> germancomponist @ Mon Apr 06 said:
> 
> 
> > :roll:
> ...


Politely ignore ...


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## muk (Apr 7, 2015)

LASS and 8dio both sound good. Here is a try with VSL Dimension Strings:

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F199644195&secret_url=false[/flash]

Non-flash: https://soundcloud.com/linos-music/potter-bare

As you can hear these are not even panned, but straight out of the box. I can't resist to post the same example with panning and the slightest touch of reverb though:


[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F199644674&secret_url=false[/flash]

Non-flash: https://soundcloud.com/linos-music/pott ... tad-reverb


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## DDK (Apr 7, 2015)

Can someone please post a Berlin strings version


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## Rob (Apr 8, 2015)

a take with the Kirk Hunter concert strings II... very dry library, it suffers not being reverberated. Played with pan a bit,

www.robertosoggetti.com/HP-test-KHCSII.mp3

PS on violins1 and violas I've applied sips for a smoother legato

and one with the ewqlso gold

www.robertosoggetti.com/HP-test-ewqlso.mp3


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## renegade (Apr 8, 2015)

@Rob: Nice to hear those violas play in time! 

IMO the big challenge in this piece is the drive. And if those violas can't pull it off it just falls apart. The violas need to be tight and not sound like a mashine gun. Legato patches are IMO not suited for this task. Too slow/untight and/or too static.

1 HS only, dry
2 layered with Albion, Sable and a touch SI Strings. 
3 Added reverb: VintageVerb (send) and LX480

[flash width=500 height=150 loop=false]https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=https://soundcloud.com/rene-gade/sets/hedwig-string-test[/flash]

EDIT: Just so that it is clear: No legato patches are used in these ex.


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## Rob (Apr 8, 2015)

renegade @ 8th April 2015 said:


> @Rob: Nice to hear those violas play in time!
> 
> IMO the big challenge in this piece is the drive. And if those violas can't pull it off it just falls apart. The violas need to be tight and not sound like a mashine gun. Legato patches are IMO not suited for this task. Too slow/untight and/or too static.
> 
> ...



 true about violas, but we are missing so many instruments here, there are horns, woodwinds, brass. percussions, harp, celesta, all contributing to the drive... it would be better to choose a passage where strings are almost alone.

PS last note in bar 6 should be E


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## renegade (Apr 8, 2015)

Rob @ Wed 08 Apr said:


> PS last note in bar 6 should be E



Corrected


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## Stradibaldi (Apr 9, 2015)

Excellent mockups so far! o-[][]-o


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## germancomponist (Apr 9, 2015)

Rob @ Wed Apr 08 said:


> true about violas, but we are missing so many instruments here, there are horns, woodwinds, brass. percussions, harp, celesta, all contributing to the drive... it would be better to choose a passage where strings are almost alone.



This!

The reason why I posted my " :roll: ".

o/~


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## Stradibaldi (Apr 9, 2015)

The goal is not to sound like the real orchestra, that is impossible without the other instruments. The goal is to see how each of these libraries deals with creating fast legato in a variety of articulations and speeds (triplets, sixteenths, etc). 

If you want to compare just a fast exposed sound, then here is the violin passage from earlier in Hedwig's Theme (no massaging was done, I just threw the midi straight into my sequencer).

[flash width=500 height=150 loop=false]https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=https://soundcloud.com/stradibaldi/sets/lass-hedwig-comparison[/flash]

Non Flash Link

But since this passage is only 16ths, I find it less useful than the other passage...


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## Hannes_F (Apr 17, 2015)

As an afterthought here is a live strings version for you, first dry and then with a touch of B2:

[mp3]http://www.strings-on-demand.com/demos/HF_Hedwig_16_14_12_12_6_dry.mp3[/mp3]

Non-flash:
http://www.strings-on-demand.com/demos/ ... _6_dry.mp3


[mp3]http://www.strings-on-demand.com/demos/HF_Hedwig_16_14_12_12_6_wet.mp3[/mp3]

Non-flash:
http://www.strings-on-demand.com/demos/ ... _6_wet.mp3


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## Stradibaldi (Apr 17, 2015)

Wow Hannes what a great demo for your strings! Your players are pro 

These live strings also serve as a good point of comparison. The famously "dry and scratchy" sound of LASS turns out to not be very different from the real sound of unstaged strings.


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## Daryl (Apr 17, 2015)

Stradibaldi @ Fri Apr 17 said:


> Wow Hannes what a great demo for your strings! Your players are pro


Player*s*.....? :lol:


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## Hannes_F (Apr 18, 2015)

Stradibaldi @ Fri Apr 17 said:


> Wow Hannes what a great demo for your strings! Your players are pro
> 
> These live strings also serve as a good point of comparison. The famously "dry and scratchy" sound of LASS turns out to not be very different from the real sound of unstaged strings.



Thanks, Stradibaldi. I happen to love that spaced but very dry studio sound that lets me hear every detail in all the voices. AND you wanted to hear the examples 'out of the box' . However I know that not everybody appreciates that dry strings sound, so for release it would then typically be thickened with even some more reverb like this:

[mp3]http://www.strings-on-demand.com/demos/HF_Hedwig_16_14_12_12_6_wetwet.mp3[/mp3]
Non-flash:
http://www.strings-on-demand.com/demos/ ... wetwet.mp3

However imo the strings sound for this kind of music should never be scratchy - it should absolutely be energetically bowed when it is appropriate (like here), and each note should have its individual amount of attack that makes the whole line still articulated even within a bigger hall ... but scratchy ... no no 

Daryl, we had Jean, Gianni, Jack, Yannis, Juan, János and Séan, among others :lol:


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## Kralc (Apr 18, 2015)

Well, I'm sucker for more reverb. 

Sounds absolutely fantastic Hannes!


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## handz (Apr 18, 2015)

Love these threads, Berlin Strings and CS anyone?


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## Saxer (Apr 18, 2015)

hannes, i love the dry version! you can really hear people working what gives the most emotional impact to me. so much gets lost in the distance.


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## dormusic (Apr 18, 2015)

I know there's no Viola or Double Bass, but Embertone anyone?!


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## Mahlon (Apr 18, 2015)

I'll try to get something together on Monday with Berlin Strings.

Mahlon


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## DDK (Apr 18, 2015)

Great looking forward to hearing birlin strings 
Please also enclude the expansion strings if u have them


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## Stradibaldi (Apr 19, 2015)

Looking forward to Berlin Strings!

Hannes that latest demo is fantastic.

Here's a quick ranking of section sizes.

QL Symphonic Orchestra: 18, 11, 10, 10, 9
LA Scoring Strings: 16, 16, 12, 10, 8
Spitfire Mural: 16, 14, 12, 10, 8
Hollywood Strings: 16, 14, 10, 10, 7
Cinematic Strings Two: 12, 8, 7, 7, 6
8dio Adagio: 11, 11, 7, 6, 4
Berlin Strings: 8, 6, 5, 5, 4
Sable (both volumes?): 4, 3, 3, 3, 3

A lot of choices here.

Based on videos of the scoring session I estimate the Harry Potter 1 strings are 16, 14, 14, 12, 8


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## oayaji (Apr 20, 2015)

Hi.
Nice to meet you, I attended from Japan.

i have mural
https://soundcloud.com/masai-sakurai/spitfire-mural

I was wrong scale of Violas.

https://soundcloud.com/masai-sakurai/1-2a


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## Hannes_F (Apr 20, 2015)

Hi oayji,

welcome to the forum, feel well here!

Nice sound from Mural, however could it be that the violas should be an octave lower?


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## vicontrolu (Apr 21, 2015)

Unfortunately, I´m leaning towards HS from all the mockups. Maybe the topic starter could gather them all on the first post?


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## DDK (Apr 21, 2015)

Still hoping we get Birln strings in there
Curious to see how it stacks up against HS


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## atw (Apr 21, 2015)

I'd love to hear the new London Symphonic Strings.
Someone ?


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## muk (Apr 21, 2015)

Why is that unfortunate vicontrolu? Is it the only one out of these libraries that you haven't got? :D 

Thanks for the Mural demo oayaji. Compared to the dry examples above it's quite the contrast.


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## vicontrolu (Apr 21, 2015)

No, i dont have many others, but its unfortunate cause i decided not to go EW when maybe i should have. 

We should do the solo violin line too. I hope i can find some time and upload a version with 8Dio


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## renegade (Apr 21, 2015)

vicontrolu @ Tue 21 Apr said:


> Unfortunately, I´m leaning towards HS from all the mockups. Maybe the topic starter could gather them all on the first post?



I think HS is able to do a lot of things when you get to know the patches included. It is a very comprehensive library.

I should mention that in the posted ex. I did not use any legato patches. I think legato patches often are a little overrated. For some stuff (slow lines typically) they can be very lovely, but medium - fast I often go for non legato (with any lib., exept maybe LASS, wich can go a little faster than most others). I find the melody line flows better that way.

-René


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## ModalRealist (Apr 21, 2015)

Awesome thread. I was very impressed by some of the older libraries actually. I could not resist using my free evening to make my own attempt. In accordance with the rules, here's a bone-dry version:

*Dry*
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F201958471&secret_url=false[/flash]
Non-flash: https://soundcloud.com/modalrealist/hed ... -no-reverb

This is Hollywood Strings Gold specifically. As such it only comes with the mid mics - which as you can hear are pretty dry. However, add some QL Spaces (S. Cal. Strings program) or your favourite verb and you get this:

*Wet*
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F201955782&secret_url=false[/flash]
Non-flash: https://soundcloud.com/modalrealist/hedwigs-theme-hs-gold

Hi-res files for those who want them:


Wet: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21518480/vic-MR_HP_HS_MixWet.flac
Dry: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21518480/vic-MR_HP_HS_MixDry.flac (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/215 ... ixDry.flac)


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## Stradibaldi (Apr 21, 2015)

Good evening folks,

the first post is now updated with a master list of all the dry demos:

[flash width=500 height=500 loop=false]https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=https://soundcloud.com/stradibaldi/sets/string-libraries-comparison[/flash]

I think it is now appropriate to give some thoughts about these libraries *(just my opinion of course!)
*
It is very educational to listen to each demo in comparison with Hannes' dry live strings. I have done this section-by-section.

*VIOLINS:* in a way this is the "easy" part of the demo. The violins just have to sound lyrical, real and controllable enough to form a musical phrase.
*1st place Hollywood Strings* - All around great detailed sound. Love the bow dig at the start of fast phrases. Sounds a little thin and trebly compared to live.
*2nd place Mural* - beautiful, highly detailed sound with the right amount of body and air. The fast legato lacks a little definition compared to Hollywood.
*3rd place LA Scoring Strings* - I love the portamento, the fast legato is very real sounding even arpeggiating across strings. Less pleasant, more aggressive - which might put it above the other libraries in a different context.
*Honorable mention 8dio Strings* - very airy and beautiful sound, handled the cross-string legato well. Just sounds too thin to me.

*VIOLAS:* this turned out to be the hard part of the demo. The energy, drive and tightness of the live violas are the engine that drives the music forward.
*1st place 8dio Strings* Pushy, energetic sound WITHOUT sounding like a machine-gun. You can hear the bow changes at each bar line. Really head and shoulders above the other violas.
*2nd place VSL Dimension Strings* Many of the same virtues as 8dio but with a lusher more synthy less defined sound.
*3rd place Hollywood Strings* Neither demo has the particular sound of a bar of notes taken on one bow, and I don't find the "workarounds" to be aurally convincing. BUT when I listen to the legato 16ths in the violins, I suspect that HS violas can quite capably handle real whole-bar-legato phrases with energy and verve. 
*Honorable mention EWQLSO* Surprisingly relevant.
LASS violas in this particular phrase seem to lack something. It could be my programming.

*LOW STRINGS:* a wide variety of articulations and accents - can they form a cohesive phrase?
*TIED 1st place 8dio Strings* convincing alternations between marcato and fast legato triplets. I'm not a fan of the bow-noise-heavy attacks that these marcatos have, it sounds too synthy to me.
*TIED 1st place LA Scoring Strings* less defined and rhythmically energetic fast legato, but all the artics work together to define a phrase. Wonderfully imposing and forceful sound from the basses.
*3rd place Hollywood Strings* Energetic and forceful but I found the artic-switching a little transparent.
*Honorable mention Mural* really shone at the end quasi-fugue section. 

Of course a new challenger could easily shake things up.... o/~ o[])


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## vicontrolu (Apr 22, 2015)

This is great Stradibaldi, thanks for putting them all in one place. I generally agree with your comments and i have a couple clarifications to make on the 8Dio take, which is the one i made.


_8Dio violins: very airy and beautiful sound, handled the cross-string legato well. Just sounds too thin to me_ 
Indeed the whole library sound generally bright. Its also probable that my faked 2nd violins (detuning trick) dont help here, cause it makes the sound brighter. I should transpose them up instead of down to make the sound duller instead of brighter. 

_8Dio low strings: I'm not a fan of the bow-noise-heavy attacks that these marcatos have, it sounds too synthy to me._ 
I did this on purpose. I used a articulation called MArcato/Spiccato (overlayed) I guess you would prefer the marcatos only better, but i am used to use the other one cause, when the other instruments play, it makes the string lines really stand out a bit more


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## Sebastianmu (Apr 22, 2015)

Great thread!


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## JoeBarlow (Apr 22, 2015)

As no one has done *Cinestrings* yet I thought i would give it a try 

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F202009475&secret_url=false[/flash] 

As per the rules, no processing at all, and all the reverb inside kontakt removed. 
I'm also terrible at reading score so if anyone else has cinestrings, give it a go!


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## DDK (Apr 22, 2015)

We need Berlin Strings to round it out, Anybody???
dave


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## tack (Apr 22, 2015)

I'll give CS2 a crack tonight. (I started it last night but ran out of time. I'm not terribly fast. )


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## prodigalson (Apr 22, 2015)

https://soundcloud.com/prodigalson21/hedwigs-theme-bs

Here's a quick pass with Berlin Strings. Didn't have a ton of time to really get too crazy with the CC editing but this is just an out of the box sound. mainly Tree mics with some close mics for definition on the Violins and Violas.


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## tack (Apr 22, 2015)

Here's Cinematic Strings 2 out of the box. I used the default "mix" mic which has a fair bit of room.

https://soundcloud.com/anothercrappypia ... -theme-dry

Here's a version where I tried to match the mix of the original soundtrack. And failed terribly. Take it or leave it. 

https://soundcloud.com/anothercrappypia ... -theme-wet


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## ModalRealist (Apr 22, 2015)

Stradibaldi @ Wed Apr 22 said:


> *3rd place Hollywood Strings* Neither demo has the particular sound of a bar of notes taken on one bow, and I don't find the "workarounds" to be aurally convincing. BUT when I listen to the legato 16ths in the violins, I suspect that HS violas can quite capably handle real whole-bar-legato phrases with energy and verve.



Actually, this is unfortunately very hard to do in HS (I say, as one of the "failed" demo makers). The reason is that the articulation(s) used in the violins do not exist for violas. So for example, in my demo, the semiquaver phrases of the violins use the "Stac Slur" patches. These do not exist for violas (also, the triplets are a bit slow for them anyway). In my demo, the viola line is instead a layering of "Rep Runs" - which uses scripting to turn the measured tremolo samples into very fast run transitions, and plain staccato. I actually really like the effect thereby created, even though I admit it doesn't sound like a fully-bowed bar. I did try doing the violas with legato, bumping the transition speed to its shortest setting, but I didn't really like the sound. It didn't have enough "drive." In the dry version of my demo there is definitely too much of a gap: but I implore people to _listen to the wet version as well_, since I think the effect there is much closer to the original (and you wouldn't leave HS Gold dry).

I'm not sure any of the samples have created both the flow of a fully-connected bar, and the sense of drive, which is present in the original and in Hannes' recording. But these kinds of "fast but not that fast" lines seem to be a real sticking point in samples generally, and especially in strings.

Notwithstanding that, it's certainly apparent that all these libraries can take you a long way. Even the older ones.


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## clisma (Apr 23, 2015)

Really great to have a shoot-out on this!

Here's my attempt. As a long-time user of LASS and fresh acquirer of Hollywood strings, I thought I'd try to combine the two libraries, since it hasn't been done in the examples above yet. I thought HWS might soften LASS a bit.

This is totally dry:
https://soundcloud.com/luciano-storti/hedwigstheme-hs-lass-dry

While this one has Virtual Soundstage 2 with (preset is soundstage 1, all else default settings) for each section and a dash of M7 Reverb (Berliner Hall Preset, ERs turned off):
https://soundcloud.com/luciano-storti/hedwigstheme-hs-lass-m7

Note that this is using divisi on both libs, so section sizes would be fairly accurate for a large orchestra. LASS is using the DivA and DivB playing together, while HWS is using DivA. Also, HWS is using the CLOSE Mic position to better match LASS in placement. LASS is using the CAPE FEAR eq color, again to better match HWS in tonal quality (ARC is not used, Color is assigned in the patches themselves so no STAGE is added).

I could probably get it to sound a bit better with deeper knowledge of HWS. But I'll need more time to get to know this new library and the multitude of patches available!


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## tack (Apr 23, 2015)

clisma @ Thu Apr 23 said:


> Here's my attempt.


Your links don't work for me, clisma. Are they inadvertently private?


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## atw (Apr 23, 2015)

clisma @ Thu Apr 23 said:


> Really great to have a shoot-out on this!
> 
> Here's my attempt. As a long-time user of LASS and fresh acquirer of Hollywood strings, I thought I'd try to combine the two libraries, since it hasn't been done in the examples above yet. I thought HWS might soften LASS a bit.
> 
> ...



Would love to hear it, but Soundcloud says sorry. Maybe not public?


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## clisma (Apr 23, 2015)

Sorry guys, fixed now!


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## Stradibaldi (Apr 23, 2015)

Whoops I accidentally reported a post. Darn phone!

Thanks for all the recent mock ups!

Lass plus HW would be a huge orchestra indeed, more than sixty violins...


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## clisma (Apr 23, 2015)

Actually, I used Divisi on both LASS and HWS, so all the sections should approximately total the correct numbers of either library by itself.


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## Rob (Apr 23, 2015)

Another approach, this time using solo strings mainly, Hunter's old solo library, plus some ensemble from concert strings 2... a bit of reverb this time 

www.robertosoggetti.com/HP-test-KHsolos.mp3


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## Hannes_F (Apr 23, 2015)

@Rob ..._ a bit_ of reverb? I am hearing a playmobile(R) orchestra in the back of the hall of the Mountain King :lol: Come on Rob, give us the dry thing :D please

What I hear through these clouds is quite good, at least I guess ... musically perhaps the best sampled version so far.


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## Rob (Apr 23, 2015)

Hannes_F @ 23rd April 2015 said:


> @Rob ..._ a bit_ of reverb? I am hearing a playmobile(R) orchestra in the back of the hall of the Mountain King :lol: Come on Rob, give us the dry thing :D please
> 
> What I hear through these clouds is quite good, at least I guess ... musically perhaps the best sampled version so far.



:D :D :D ok tomorrow I'll post an almost dry version... too late here now, need some sleep
Could it be Hannes that after a while we get used to the reverb and don't hear it anymore? I guess so...


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## Rob (Apr 24, 2015)

here's a drier version, not completely dry because I need some reverb to glue solos together...

www.robertosoggetti.com/HP-test-KHsolosDrier.mp3


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## ModalRealist (Jul 18, 2015)

I've also now done a version of this with Berlin Strings:



This version makes use of the 2.0 features in Berlin Strings, such as using legato transitions on any long notes, and a very subtle legato effect for short notes also. I used the Tree and Close mics for the mix.

You can compare it to my previous version made with HS, to see how the two libraries shape up when asked to render a given piece in a very similar way (but with their own custom MIDI data):



and HS with EWQL Spaces Reverb (SoCal Hall Strings):



Disclaimer: I'm just an amateur and my little doodles probably don't showcase these libraries in their best light, but if I can do it, you almost certainly could.


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## Erik (Oct 19, 2015)

http://eotte.blogspot.nl/2015/10/strings-test-again.html (On a new dedicated page I have made two comparison overviews of all tracks here based on this small fragment form Hedwig's Theme (Harry Potter).)

The first one is a compilation of all contributions offered in this thread of different members of the VI-forum.
I thought that it was quite hard to have a relaxed comparison on the VI site, scrolling through all pages, so I just put all these tracks in one player on my blog.
All contributors are mentioned in the titles with their VI forum name. If one of you don't want to be on the list just PM me please!

Since there was only one VSL Dimension Strings contribution, I decided to make some more dedicated VSL tracks and offer you also combinations of VSL string libraries.

So in “Potter Strings VSL” you'll have an overview of what VSL is capable of in this demanding piece. Eager to know your opinion about these btw.

Please enjoy!


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## vicontrolu (Dec 21, 2015)

Agitato + adagio for the shorts


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## PhJ (Dec 22, 2015)

Hannes_F said:


> Daryl, we had Jean, Gianni, Jack, Yannis, Juan, János and Séan, among others :lol:



A pity Ivan couldn't join.
Sounds great !


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