# I'm ready for a new future proof DAW



## CosmicD (Oct 28, 2021)

Hello,

I'd like to start with a preface:

My current music PC is more than 10 years old and runs on the first core i7 (930) cpu and needless to say everything is grinding slowly to a halt. At the same time it's amazing how much performance improvement I could still get out of it with cubase updates 8 and 10 but now it's end of life. Everything I do takes 5 minutes. it all runs on HDD's and old memory of the time.

I bought alot of sample libraries and like to start using them without having to wait 5 to 10 minutes before a legato string patch is loaded etc.

Now to the subject at hand:

For the new PC: I'm looking for the best components that make it blazing fast and future proof for the next years without making it ultra expensive.

- I already found out (from youtube videos) that A%D threadripper (24 core) vastly outperforms even intel xeon cpu's. So I would like to start with that, paired with a great motherboard and not-too-beefy videocard. (i'm not going to play games on that thing).

I also would like to buy a new internal audio card to maximize speed. I use a behringer AD/DA convertor with adat. The hammerfall 9652 PCI card I had has served me well. It must be 15 years old now because I used it in the pc I had BEFORE the one i'm using now. I have this card from 2006. But I think it would be nice to have a soundcard with updated architecture.

so the question is: should I stay internal ? Or is external better ? I read (and heard) alot of confusing stuff about non optimal USB 3 speeds, and that thunderbolt 3 doesn't seem to work well on windows. So I'd like to know what to avoid if I want to go for the most simple solution.

- I want to recreate the storage structure I have now. 1 drive for system software (and cubase / plugins), 2 drives for samples and cubase projects. When I look on sites that let you customize your pc, I notice they rarely allow you to build a mve system drive. it needs to be a regular SSD, "optional storage" can be mve's. But is it possible to have a mve system drive as well? (it seems weird to purposely take a slower ssd as system drive.

- I don't need the top tier videogame card. Will a geforce 2060 (or lower) cause a bottleneck in performance ? As said before, I'm not going to play games on that computer and cards like a 3080 are way too overpriced and i doubt if it's going to benefit the DAW (audio) fuctionality in any way.

- On the RAM issue: I do have alot of sample libraries but I'm not doing massive orchestrations. My projects usually use 24-32 tracks with nexus, omnisphere, some 8dio or heaviocity libraries, realguitar... and my current PC has 10 gb DDR2. (so it all loads albeit very, VERY slow and I have to freeze and use high latency to be able to export them without hiccups.) So which ram is advisable now ? Type, and size. Should 32gb be enough ? (remember I want to keep the price of the pc below 4000 € if possible.

I'd like to be able to have a workflow that is loading the new soundpaint / omnisphere / heavy legato patches on kontakt libraries faster than 5-10 minutes. 

Any insights are welcome!


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## khollister (Oct 28, 2021)

A few observations in no particular order from a Mac user who investigates the alternate universe every couple years:

It seems that the crazy high core counts of the Threadripper CPU's doesn't translate into real world performance with Cubase. If I were building an AMD-based computer for music, I would go with a Ryzen 9 59xx CPU (5900 or 5950). Every DAW benchmark I have seen shows the 5950 and the Intel 10980XE running neck and neck for top spot.
Be very careful of AMD and Thunderbolt - the results are somewhat spotty from my recent research. The is especially true with UA stuff.
The RME PCIe stuff is king of the hill for low latency performance still. However, I'm not sure that many people actually need the advantage. On Windows (or the Mac for that matter), it is hard to beat RME for stability and speed. Whether the other features/sound is your cup of tea is more subjective. 
The AMD Ryzens are far more performance sensitive to RAM speed than Intel. There are "Ryzen qualified" RAM kits in the market for a reason.
The PC market is about to undergo some technical disruption(using that term in a innovation sense) with Intel's Alder Lake architecture and Windows 11 (which will be required to effectively support the Alder Lake arch). I'm not sure I would drop big bucks today on a PC. An alternative is build an i9-11900K/11700K machine and use the integrated graphics (no insanely expensive GPU thanks to the crypto mining craze). That would be quite powerful, probably half (or less) the cost of some mega super build, and would give you time to see where things land in the next year or two. 
I'm not convinced there is a ton of real world advantage to a TB audio interface (and I have TB stuff). One advantage of an Intel 11x00 build is that TB3 is rock solid, even with UAD from what I read.


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

Ryzen 5950x
X570 motherboard.

Running Studio One and two Presonus Quantum interfaces over Thunderbolt 3. Audient ASP 880 Over ADAT into the Quantum for 60 inputs and 64 outputs

64mb Buffer 

Rock solid.

The latency is insane….I can track through plugins and the tight integration with studio one flawless.


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## Yellow Studio (Oct 28, 2021)

I will go with the new Intel alder lake cpu when its time for me.


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## CosmicD (Oct 28, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> Wow, a lot of ground to cover! I'm an amatuer, but a total computer nerd, so I carefully researched my upgrade a couple of years ago. A few thoughts to consider:
> 
> 1. For most things, GHz is more important than core count. This is true for music, as ultimately a single core has to act as the real time core, bringing the output of the other cores together, master bus FX etc. So you may get better performance for a daw from the 5800x than a threadripper. Worth researching see if there's any comparative daw benchmarks.
> 
> ...


I saw the hyperthread stuff here. This youtuber was showing comparisons:  As you can see it covers a lot of ground. And if I see the threadripper vs the regular "household i9", I'd go with that: because I would like to edit and compose at the lowest latency possible. As you see the TR even surpasses the ryzen "household" cpu.but you don't see a comparison with the 59x.... I thought I saw a review from "doctor mix" who could run 99 tracks with a channel and a vsti on the ryzen 5950 (i think).


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## CosmicD (Oct 28, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Ryzen 5950x
> X570 motherboard.
> 
> Running Studio One and two Presonus Quantum interfaces over Thunderbolt 3. Audient ASP 880 Over ADAT into the Quantum for 60 inputs and 64 outputs
> ...


I don't really need alot of inputs/outputs as I'm just a producer making music with a vocalist and I do everything with vsti's. So I only really need to have analog sound for my focal speakers and have inputs for the mic of my vocalist. So 8 in 8 out is enough. As was said here too, I heard alot of risky stuff with thunderbolt. But I would like to risk an usb3 solution with a NI or Cubase interface. As I've been accustomed to cubase since I was young, I don't really use anything else. I've got a visual impairment and have a hard time to recognize stuff. If I have to learn a new DAW software it's gonna take me a while to relearn everything. in cubase, I kinda intuitively know what feature is where by now. So I might go for a cubase audio system if it will give the same latency results as the hammerfall aio (which is really all the in/outs i need).


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## CosmicD (Oct 28, 2021)

Yellow Studio said:


> I will go with the new Intel alder lake cpu when its time for me.


from all the comparison/ benchmark stuff I see , I notice that AMD tops intel these days. Yet I'm not buying a pc tomorrow so I have about a year to see what I would like. But I'm eager to start finishing up the projects I have lying around. But it's very demotivating to work on them now if everything runs so slow and I can't record sessions because I have to set the latency so high that the notes are all off beat in the editor


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## Al Maurice (Oct 28, 2021)

Unless you need lots of i/o thunderbolt is kind of overkill from my perspective.

Most interfaces still are only usb 2, even though many use USB-C (just the connector).


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

Yellow Studio said:


> I will go with the new Intel alder lake cpu when its time for me.


Without waiting for benchmarks and performance?

Gotta love the Intel blinkered fanboi viewpoints….😂


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

CosmicD said:


> I don't really need alot of inputs/outputs as I'm just a producer making music with a vocalist and I do everything with vsti's. So I only really need to have analog sound for my focal speakers and have inputs for the mic of my vocalist. So 8 in 8 out is enough. As was said here too, I heard alot of risky stuff with thunderbolt. But I would like to risk an usb3 solution with a NI or Cubase interface. As I've been accustomed to cubase since I was young, I don't really use anything else. I've got a visual impairment and have a hard time to recognize stuff. If I have to learn a new DAW software it's gonna take me a while to relearn everything. in cubase, I kinda intuitively know what feature is where by now. So I might go for a cubase audio system if it will give the same latency results as the hammerfall aio (which is really all the in/outs i need).


I was just highlighting the fact that when correctly implemented TB3 and windows with Ryzen 16 core 32 thread is solid as a rock.

USB 3 offers no performance over USB 2 in DAW related tasks….however TB3 will reduce Latency and allow lower buffer sizes….This has been compared and tested with myself using an Audient ID 22


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## Technostica (Oct 28, 2021)

Yellow Studio said:


> I will go with the new Intel alder lake cpu when its time for me.


Given that it uses a hybrid architecture and requires Windows 11 to get the best out of it, I'd put that close to the bottom of my list. 
Let other people be the beta testers.


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

Technostica said:


> Given that it uses a hybrid architecture and requires Windows 11 to get the best out of it, I'd put that close to the bottom of my list.
> Let other people be the beta testers.


Plus AMD have stacked 3D V-cache waiting in the wings to defeat Intel once again…😂


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## Yellow Studio (Oct 28, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Without waiting for benchmarks and performance?
> 
> Gotta love the Intel blinkered fanboi viewpoints….😂











Intel Alder Lake Mobility CPU Benchmarks Leaked: Faster Than The Apple M1 Max, Smokes AMD 5980HX, 11980HK


So we have something very interesting for our readers today. We were able to exclusively get our hands on the first-ever benchmarks for Intel's upcoming Alder Lake mobility processors - which are going to go head to head against the Apple M1 Max processors clawing away market share as well as...




wccftech.com


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

Yellow Studio said:


> Intel Alder Lake Mobility CPU Benchmarks Leaked: Faster Than The Apple M1 Max, Smokes AMD 5980HX, 11980HK
> 
> 
> So we have something very interesting for our readers today. We were able to exclusively get our hands on the first-ever benchmarks for Intel's upcoming Alder Lake mobility processors - which are going to go head to head against the Apple M1 Max processors clawing away market share as well as...
> ...


You have just quoted one of the worse Computer hardware and software BS sites in the IT hardware community….

Wccftech posts Utter crap….has done for years…..😂


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## Yellow Studio (Oct 28, 2021)

easyrider said:


> You have just quoted one of the worse Computer hardware and software BS sites in the IT hardware community….
> 
> Wccftech posts Utter crap….has done for years…..😂


I guess you have AMD?


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

Yellow Studio said:


> I guess you have AMD?


I’ve had Intel and AMD rigs….the last Intel rig I had was a 9900k which I had for 4 weeks before ditching it for a 3900 x….I then upgraded to the 5950x


Fact: Intel has had stagnant tech for over 10 years….

Your point?


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## Yellow Studio (Oct 28, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I’ve had Intel and AMD rigs….the last Intel rig I had was a 9900k which I had for 4 weeks before ditching it for a 3900 x….I then upgraded to the 5950x
> 
> 
> Fact: Intel has had stagnant tech for over 10 years….
> ...


I don't have any point. I just googled for benchmarks. But I do believe that many people have to justify for themselves that what they bought, was a good choice. Maybe Amd is best I dont know but for me I have been very pleased with my Intel for over 6 years and will probably buy a new one when its time. and we will soon see how the alder lake perform.


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

Yellow Studio said:


> I don't have any point. I just googled for benchmarks. But I do believe that many people have to justify for themselves that what they bought, was a good choice. Maybe Amd is best I dont know but for me I have been very pleased with my Intel for over 6 years and will probably buy a new one when its time. and we will soon see how the alder lake perform.


Well I bought the 9900k , it was an upgrade from a 6700k….it was hot, it used massive amounts of power and was only 8 cores….I could get 12 cores 24 threads for less money, less heat , less power consumption and yet still yield far superior performance with the 3900x so the 9900k was dismantled….I then upgraded to a 5950x and in all my years building hundreds of PCs for myself and clients it is one of the best chips I’ve come across. It’s a legendary chip .

I don’t need to justify anything….I’ll buy what is fastest for the budget I have….regardless of who makes it.

I didn’t upgrade my PC for years as the CPU arena was stagnant….AMD changed all that…they did it with the Opteron Chips in the early 2000’s….and they did it again with Ryzen 3900 chips….Intel have been complacent….they have been stuck on 14nm for years and have only just moved to 10nm…..Ryzen is already 7nm has 3D V cache incoming and is ready to shake up the market once again.


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## ogrim1 (Oct 28, 2021)

easyrider said:


> only just moved to 10nm…..Ryzen is already 7nm


Intel changed the name of their lithography technology to _Intel 7 (12th gen) just for you_


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## kitekrazy (Oct 28, 2021)

Future proof is a myth. Eventually some developers who have no clue of optimization can bring any system to a halt.


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

ogrim1 said:


> Intel changed the name of their lithography technology to _Intel 7 (12th gen) just for you_


Well I’ll eagerly await their new chips…but unless it destroys my 5950x I won’t be upgrading…


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

kitekrazy said:


> Future proof is a myth. Eventually some developers who have no clue of optimization can bring any system to a halt.


I concur…


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## CosmicD (Oct 28, 2021)

yeah, in the literal sense it's good. The first generation intel core based PC I have now held up pretty good and if I would have stayed on windows xp and the cubase version, it wouldn't have been grinding to a halt over the last years. But as said before: cubase versions 8 and 10 really gave it a second wind but now it's about time that I upgrade, and I would like to do it most effectively in one go.


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## HBIII (Oct 28, 2021)

I have been a PC user my entire life and have built a ton of PCs. But it has become more and more of a pain in the butt over the years and now with everything going on right now (insane prices for GPUs, manufacturers swapping out components with lower performance ones on things like ssd cards and ram etc.) I don't think I am going to do it again. And even if you manage to get everything put together windows PCs are such an audio latency nightmare (ugh, all the countless hours I have wasted trying to lower my DPC and ISR latency...). 

So after 30 years of using a PC I am saving up for a new macbook pro with an m1 max chip. I can just buy it and it will just work.


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

HBIII said:


> I have been a PC user my entire life and have built a ton of PCs. But it has become more and more of a pain in the butt over the years and now with everything going on right now (insane prices for GPUs, manufacturers swapping out components with lower performance ones on things like ssd cards and ram etc.) I don't think I am going to do it again. And even if you manage to get everything put together windows PCs are such an audio latency nightmare (ugh, all the countless hours I have wasted trying to lower my DPC and ISR latency...).
> 
> So after 30 years of using a PC I am saving up for a new macbook pro with an m1 max chip. I can just buy it and it will just work.


Until the next Mac OS update that breaks your entire plugin collection, Audio drivers and DAW 😂


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## kitekrazy (Oct 28, 2021)

HBIII said:


> I have been a PC user my entire life and have built a ton of PCs. But it has become more and more of a pain in the butt over the years and now with everything going on right now (insane prices for GPUs, manufacturers swapping out components with lower performance ones on things like ssd cards and ram etc.) I don't think I am going to do it again. And even if you manage to get everything put together windows PCs are such an audio latency nightmare (ugh, all the countless hours I have wasted trying to lower my DPC and ISR latency...).
> 
> So after 30 years of using a PC I am saving up for a new macbook pro with an m1 max chip. I can just buy it and it will just work.


My experiences are noting like this and I've been building systems since the turn of the century. I definitely wouldn't do a new build right now with high hardware prices. There is no benefit these days on both sides of the aisle since were are victims of the (d)evolving OS.


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

kitekrazy said:


> My experiences are noting like this and I've been building systems since the turn of the century. I definitely wouldn't do a new build right now with high hardware prices. There is no benefit these days on both sides of the aisle since were are victims of the (d)evolving OS.


Same here, Building Computers over the last 25 years has been a lot of fun….


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## Technostica (Oct 28, 2021)

HBIII said:


> So after 30 years of using a PC I am saving up for a new macbook pro with an m1 max chip. I can just buy it and it will just work.


The irony is, that I see more people posting about owning Apple computers that are on older versions of the OS because of compatibility issues, than I see that are running the latest.
You have to research carefully before jumping into the fire of incompatibility hell.


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## khollister (Oct 28, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I was just highlighting the fact that when correctly implemented TB3 and windows with Ryzen 16 core 32 thread is solid as a rock.


Didn't I see series of posts by you over on Gearspace where you were trying to get some UAD stuff working on a 5950? As I recall you had UA and Asus talking trying to figure out why it didn't work. There is a specific 59xx and UAD thread where many of the folks are struggling. Not saying it can't work great, but it's not quite as easy as Intel/Windows or Mac.


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

khollister said:


> Didn't I see series of posts by you over on Gearspace where you were trying to get some UAD stuff working on a 5950? As I recall you had UA and Asus talking trying to figure out why it didn't work. There is a specific 59xx and UAD thread where many of the folks are struggling. Not saying it can't work great, but it's not quite as easy as Intel/Windows or Mac.


It’s the UAD Pcie cards the Quads and Duo cards not being recognised….Nothing to do with Thunderbolt 3.

The Octo cards are recognised fine. It’s the way that the latest bios addressed the hardware on the Quad and Duo pcie cards. Asrock released a bios update that addresses the issue. I have been working with UAD and Gigabyte for them to release a bios that addresses the issue.

And on the right configuration with the correct bios it is absolutely as easy with AMD and windows.

Also the OP never mentioned UAD….so all this BS floating about with regards to TB3 not working on AMD systems is BS.


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## khollister (Oct 28, 2021)

Technostica said:


> The irony is, that I see more people posting about owning Apple computers that are on older versions of the OS because of compatibility issues, than I see that are running the latest.
> You have to research carefully before jumping into the fire of incompatibility hell.


Most of what I read about are...

1) Folks who are on pretty old Macs that don't support newer MacOS versions. Windows users with old PC's are going to have the same issue it looks like with Windows 11. At some point, tech has to move on.

2) Folks running some abandonware plugins that haven't been updated for several years. Admittedly, Windows (10 at least) is probably better at the backwards compatibility thing, but I personally don't understand relying on plugins that are completely unsupported (especially in a professional setting). 

That said, it has been a bit more challenging lately due to the rearchitecting of MacOS in Catalina and Big Sur. The transition to Monterey appears from early reports to be smoother due to most of the pain being incurred in the 2 previous generations. The UI issue that Ben mentioned for VSL is the only really serious thing I have seen talked about yet.


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## khollister (Oct 28, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Until the next Mac OS update that breaks your entire plugin collection, Audio drivers and DAW 😂


Which never happened except from OS 9 to OS X many, many years ago


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

khollister said:


> Most of what I read about are...
> 
> 1) Folks who are on pretty old Macs that don't support newer MacOS versions. Windows users with old PC's are going to have the same issue it looks like with Windows 11. At some point, tech has to move on.


Microsoft has done a U turn and no longer blocks the install of windows 11 from a new install.It is well documented on the net.


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

khollister said:


> Which never happened except from OS 9 to OS X many, many years ago


Loads of my friends in the community could not upgrade their DAW systems due to the plugin developers not having MAC OS updates ready and some waited months.

Windows users just got on with it.


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## Nico5 (Oct 28, 2021)

I use MacOS as my primary daily driver and Win10 on my Studio computer. (And Linux on servers.)

I‘ve been careful with OS updates on both platforms. But Windows generally has been more backwards compatible over the years. And MacOS has cost me less fiddling time.


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## Pictus (Oct 28, 2021)

A reference for CPU performance for DAW workloads.








DAWBench DSP / VI Universal - Cross Platform DAW Benchmarks : - Page 14 - Gearspace.com


Hey All, Quick heads up that a New DAWbench Radio Show has been uploaded. Episode 10 : DAW Evolution III : Bitwig Studio - Past , Present , Future ! Uploaded Now across all of the major podcasting platforms. A few links below , but easily found on most others with a search. Podcast Home Page ...



gearspace.com












I made a PC based on *available *parts in Germany, you can use as a reference.
Other countries may have different parts, like the Crucial Ballistix RAM.


https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/8VCcW3





The motherboard has a strong VRM and Thunderbolt header, so can add a Thunderbolt card if needed.
It supports 4 NVMe SSDs.


NVMe TLC drives are so fast you can use just one BIG drive and there will be
no performance loss for audio(not video) workloads, but it is less expensive
to use smaller drives.
I do not know what are your drive size requirements, but made a PC with a 2TB
very fast/high quality Samsung 980 Pro for OS+programs+saves and a second 4TB
drive for the libraries, they are all TLC models.
How to remove the SPECTRIX S40G XPG heatsink. (Very easy)



-The extra 140mm fan is to be placed in the case front


-The GPU is semi-passive, +- up to 45°C the fan is off








EVGA GeForce GTX 1650 Super SC Ultra Review


EVGA's GeForce GTX 1650 Super SC Ultra is priced at NVIDIA MSRP, yet offers all the important extras. It comes with a dual-fan cooler that achieves excellent temperatures and has idle-fan-stop capability. A factory overclock is included, too, and EVGA even managed to squeeze in a metal backplate.




www.techpowerup.com




-Some tweaks/stuff you may like.




__





Nvidia Driver, no latency anymore?


Hi all! We all know that AMD drivers have from far, less latency than Nvidia drivers, and for that reason we all recommand an AMD graphic card for audio working. But recently i have dealt with a new install on a PC with an Nvidia graphic card. And when i updated to the latest driver i saw an...




vi-control.net






-The PSU is semi-passive, +- up to 410W the fan is off








Corsair RM850x (2021) Power Supply Review


The Corsair RM850x is the new leader in the 850W Gold category.




www.tomshardware.com









-For audio interface RME HDSPe AIO Pro PCIe is KING!








Gearspace.com - View Single Post - Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base


Post 15205348 -Forum for professional and amateur recording engineers to share techniques and advice.



gearspace.com









BTW, if you wait a bit... 
Or build now(maybe with a cheaper CPU) and change the CPU later...








AMD Zen 3 3D-Vache Ryzen CPUs Enter Mass Production Next Month & Zen 3 B2 Stepping Available End of December, Alleges Rumor


AMD's Ryzen CPUs based on the new Zen 3 stacked chiplet design with V-Cache are expected to enter mass production next month.




wccftech.com


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## jamieboo (Oct 28, 2021)

I'm tentatively considering a new build too, and have been keeping an eye on your posts Pictus, because of the great suggestions and knowledgeable insights.
One thing I'm curious about your post above is your picking a 570 motherboard. I'm sure I've seen earlier posts where you've recommended the 550 over the 570 (because of the quality of VRMs and other components).
What are your thoughts?

Thanks


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

jamieboo said:


> I'm tentatively considering a new build too, and have been keeping an eye on your posts Pictus, because of the great suggestions and knowledgeable insights.
> One thing I'm curious about your post above is your picking a 570 motherboard. I'm sure I've seen earlier posts where you've recommended the 550 over the 570 (because of the quality of VRMs and other components).
> What are your thoughts?
> 
> Thanks


X570 offer more PCIE lanes allowing more Gen 4 M.2 drives to be connected. Along with other features B550 doesn’t have.

As for VRMs, you can have lower quality VRMs on X570 and B550 it all depends on the Manufacturer and model of motherboard.


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## jamieboo (Oct 28, 2021)

Thanks Easyrider.
Yeah, I knew about these more obvious advantages of the 570, that's why I was surprised to see the 550s often recommended over the 570 here and on other music forums.


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## Pictus (Oct 28, 2021)

jamieboo said:


> I'm tentatively considering a new build too, and have been keeping an eye on your posts Pictus, because of the great suggestions and knowledgeable insights.
> One thing I'm curious about your post above is your picking a 570 motherboard. I'm sure I've seen earlier posts where you've recommended the 550 over the 570 (because of the quality of VRMs and other components).
> What are your thoughts?
> 
> Thanks



The suggestions are based on the budget/needs.
This is a new motherboard Z570S with improved stuff and no pesky chipset fan.
The main reason for me to recommend is support for 4 NVme SSDs PCIe GEN4
and the Thunderbolt header.



jamieboo said:


> Thanks Easyrider.
> Yeah, I knew about these more obvious advantages of the 570, that's why I was surprised to see the 550s often recommended over the 570 here and on other music forums.


99% of the Z570 motherboards have a pesky FRAGILE chipset fan, the B550 does not have.
If what a B550 has to offer is enough, why go for a Z570?
The B550 is less powerful, but a bit more polished than the Z570.

If 3 NVme SSDs PCIe GEN4 is enough, but no front USB-C (has Thunderbolt header)
Pay attention to the PCIe lanes wiring in this board, use a NVMe ssd in any slot other
than the first one and the GPU will be at X8, but still GEN4.
X8 GEN4 has the same bandwidth as x16 GEN3.


If needs Thunderbolt


If want a good motherboard with front USB-C and Thunderbolt header.


BTW, Thunderbolt 4 have more problems working with Thunderbolt 2 devices


https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/4406516070541-Quantum-Thunderbolt-4-Crashing-Issues-with-Windows-Systems


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## easyrider (Oct 28, 2021)

jamieboo said:


> Thanks Easyrider.
> Yeah, I knew about these more obvious advantages of the 570, that's why I was surprised to see the 550s often recommended over the 570 here and on other music forums.


That’s because the features offered in x570 not everyone needs.


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## CosmicD (Oct 29, 2021)

Pictus said:


> A reference for CPU performance for DAW workloads.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This was very informative thx, and kinda confirmed that I should go with the RME aio, and maybe not focus on threadripper so much. Also, The price of that proposed system was already surprising. I think I can cut down on it a bit because I don't really need 128gb ram, maybe 32 / 64 tops is good for my level of music making.

If I can get away with around 3000 € , that would be good. It's what I'm saving for anyways. But the upgrade won't be for a few quarters . Maybe I need to start looking for the Ryzen x9950 successor by then I think ?


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## jononotbono (Oct 29, 2021)

I am eagerly awaiting the new Threadrippers. Hoping it will lay waste to all things in its path!


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## Pictus (Oct 29, 2021)

CosmicD said:


> This was very informative thx, and kinda confirmed that I should go with the RME aio, and maybe not focus on threadripper so much. Also, The price of that proposed system was already surprising. I think I can cut down on it a bit because I don't really need 128gb ram, maybe 32 / 64 tops is good for my level of music making.
> 
> If I can get away with around 3000 € , that would be good. It's what I'm saving for anyways. But the upgrade won't be for a few quarters . Maybe I need to start looking for the Ryzen x9950 successor by then I think ?


You are welcome, go with 64GB(2x32), later can add more if needed.


https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/wZLg8J



And can cut even more with a motherboard B550 Master
No front USB-C, but has hear USB-C and Thunderbolt header
3 NVMe SSDs(GPU X8 GEN4) + 6 SATA + strong VRM


https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/pP6bW3



And build like this




But the RME is only *X1*


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## easyrider (Oct 29, 2021)

For what the OP needs to record I don’t think he needs an internal card….and unless he is recording through plugins and needs the lowest possible latency a good quality USB Audient interface with decent gain and console quality pre amps would be fine.


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## CosmicD (Oct 29, 2021)

easyrider said:


> For what the OP needs to record I don’t think he needs an internal card….and unless he is recording through plugins and needs the lowest possible latency a good quality USB Audient interface with decent gain and console quality pre amps would be fine.


Do you think an usb interface will allow me to use lower latency on the sound driver than an AIO ? I've seen on the daw bench comparisons that it tops everything else and I'm having cubase elements on my entertainment pc which is much younger, (using voicemeter asio solution on the realtek internal soundboard and it wouldn't go lower than 256 ms, it's not built for lower speeds. And I wonder if usb wouldn't actually add latency.


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## CosmicD (Oct 29, 2021)

Pictus said:


> You are welcome, go with 64GB(2x32), later can add more if needed.
> 
> 
> https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/wZLg8J
> ...


I'm going to have to save all this for when the time is right next year. If i'm lucky stuff will get cheaper again. But you're giving good examples altho I don't think I'm going to build the pc myself. I'm getting too stressed out doing this. 

Now I see that AIO, I think i'm going to buy the XLR breakout cable so that I can plug the volume pod / focal powered speakers directly to the computer instead of having the ada8000 between it. Every step I can cut off : would be nice.


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## easyrider (Oct 29, 2021)

CosmicD said:


> Do you think an usb interface will allow me to use lower latency on the sound driver than an AIO ? I've seen on the daw bench comparisons that it tops everything else and I'm having cubase elements on my entertainment pc which is much younger, (using voicemeter asio solution on the realtek internal soundboard and it wouldn't go lower than 256 ms, it's not built for lower speeds. And I wonder if usb wouldn't actually add latency.


I can run my Audient ID 22 usb at 128 buffer without issue….You are looking for problems that don’t exist.


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## Pictus (Oct 29, 2021)

CosmicD said:


> Do you think an usb interface will allow me to use lower latency on the sound driver than an AIO ?


NO!
USB = crap latency(I mean performance)
USB RME is the exception, but PCIe RME is the way!!


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## Al Maurice (Oct 29, 2021)

Actually I would say anything is better than your internal sound card, unless you have a top of the range card, which those integrated ones are good for consumer sound. So if you can find a decent USB interface, and there are some out there -- you need to complete research for what works for your setup and budget -- then why not?


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## JamieLang (Oct 29, 2021)

I would point out that a "future proof" computer is a philosophy, not a tech spec. If you think you can like overbuy tech "speed" to make it last longer? Fool's thought exercise.


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## easyrider (Oct 29, 2021)

JamieLang said:


> I would point out that a "future proof" computer is a philosophy, not a tech spec. If you think you can like overbuy tech "speed" to make it last longer? Fool's thought exercise.


Once you buy into Hardware for computers it becomes dead tech within months…..Nature of the beast.

Always buy the fastest for you budget at the time you want it….then just enjoy it until it longer does what you need.


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## Pictus (Oct 29, 2021)

CosmicD said:


> I'm going to have to save all this for when the time is right next year. If i'm lucky* stuff will get cheaper again*. But you're giving good examples altho I don't think I'm going to build the pc myself. I'm getting too stressed out doing this.


Christmas and parts shortage, I bet it will be the other way around for quite some time. :(
Excluding the CPU, the other parts will disappear or will be more expensive...


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## CosmicD (Nov 3, 2021)

JamieLang said:


> I would point out that a "future proof" computer is a philosophy, not a tech spec. If you think you can like overbuy tech "speed" to make it last longer? Fool's thought exercise.


Well I guess I have to specify "future proof for my needs". As the last one has been pretty much holding out well for 10 years but because of the increasingly more heavy os and sample libraries and concurrent vsti usage, is slowly starting to limp behind. 

Actually it's weird. I can play my most advanced projects on 1024 ms latency without stuttering and when I freeze a few tracks it's ok-ish, But that kinda hinders the workflow if I want to record another take or edit some fine tunings. 

What really takes time is starting up cubase / projects heavy on sample usage (more than 10 minutes sometimes). And even something simple as checking new updates on native access or waves central can last more than 5 minutes. But it has its time.


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## Al Maurice (Nov 3, 2021)

The CPU on a modern system mostly sits idle much of the time. A PC is just the sum of its parts, so you might consider checking out at your motherboard and CPU spec and seeing if you can upgrade the memory to faster DDR3s -- I believe your CPU will support them up to 24GB. I know of plenty of colleagues who have replaced their drives with SSDs, enabling a speedier workflow. Windows 10 is much leaner so if you haven't already done so maybe consider that too. That may help with your project start time. In the interim whilst the new tech settles down, you might find it will be cheaper than forking out for something else that may or may not be suitable in year or two time.


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## CosmicD (Nov 3, 2021)

It's not only that... though I said that once loaded, a project runs pretty good: There are hiccups and insufferably long load times with even the most insignificant program. When installing new versions of the authorisation software for plugins, often it lasts minutes before the UAC window comes up when having to grant administration right, sometimes it doesn't load at all and I need to click again (after 15 minutes waiting). Installing a new cubase updates sometimes lasts 10 minutes.

When i'm loading a big project, and I play it i have to play it several times because when more parts start playing it stutters. I have to actually repeat this process a few times before the project will play without these stutters. (which isn't latency buffer related but just simply because the hdd streams in more parts.

I think it's lost money to upgrade that old computer with out of date memory. Knowing that there will be firecuda's and ddr5 memory: I wouldn't want to just continue to fiddle with that legacy chipset, and chuck in SSD's that I know aren't going to perform even half the speed of things that I can buy now.

When I said it runs reasonably well, I meant that I can deal with the state of how it runs for now but I'm not gonna waste money upgrading that old rust bucket


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## CosmicD (Nov 4, 2021)

OK, so I'm kinda semi convinced to go for the motu solution, but I also have a virus TI snow connected with usb, I wonder if this will cause problems, can the usb channels be overloaded by these 2 and cause stutters or other delay hiccups ?


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## Nico5 (Nov 4, 2021)

CosmicD said:


> OK, so I'm kinda semi convinced to go for the motu solution, but I also have a virus TI snow connected with usb, I wonder if this will cause problems, can the usb channels be overloaded by these 2 and cause stutters or other delay hiccups ?


If you're just using the USB for your Virus TI for midi, that should not really cause too much of a problem, since midi messages are very low traffic compared to audio.

In addition your computer may have more than one USB root chipset - if yes, you could try to connect the audio USB to one of them, and everything else to the other(s), thus maximizing the available USB bandwidth for audio.


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## CosmicD (Nov 4, 2021)

well yeah I use the 3 usb audio outputs from the virus snow. I'm gonna try. I could maybe buy an extra usb controller for that. If it doesn't work out I could always buy an aio later.


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