# Riff Generation: Outside In Edition (trying something different with pricing)



## InSessionAudio (Jul 23, 2019)

Hello All! Until the intro period is over, this is the only forum I'm posting this to, as many of our customers hang here.

Tomorrow we will be releasing *Riff Generation: Outside In Edition *(a Kontakt Player library).

I'll refrain from pasting the entire web page here and instead just make a few comments, and link to a couple of videos.

The name "Riff Generation" refers to its ability to create song parts and sound design through a generative process.

"Outside In" means that all the sound sources originate from outside of a computer (acoustic & electric instruments and hardware-based synth samples sets).

There's so much more to it of course! But hopefully the vids will give you positive impression about what it's all about. 
Happy to answer any questions. Thanks for watching and listening!
- Kyle


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## playz123 (Jul 23, 2019)

Looks good, Kyle! A first rate product as always from InSessionAudio! Wondering if a purchaser's sound sources could be used as well or does this work with only the samples that are included?


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## EvilDragon (Jul 23, 2019)

It only works with samples that are included.

I mean, technically you could go in and replace zones in various groups, but then all the patches using those groups would sound different...


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## KarlHeinz (Jul 23, 2019)

YEAH !!!! THIS sounds like In Session Audio . As great as the Riff Generation is in case of the Engine and functionallities, but I came with the other sounds you did in my ear to it and was searching for a guitar.....for a guitar.....for....at....least.....maybe one......then to be honest I only used it as midi riff generator to be played by other kontakt libs....what a shame.
But here it is now  

And I am sure I will be happy with the included sounds it really seems that now you have put in all that great sounds you have in your guitar libs (plus lots of additional accoustic stuff it seems)


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## NekujaK (Jul 23, 2019)

Looks great! And you can drag the generated MIDI into your DAW, so ostensibly, there are no limitations on sounds you can use!


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## InSessionAudio (Jul 23, 2019)

NekujaK said:


> Looks great! And you can drag the generated MIDI into your DAW, so ostensibly, there are no limitations on sounds you can use!


Thanks! Yes: you can drag the MIDI into your DAW, or you can send MIDI out from Riff Generation in realtime to other instruments/tracks (and you can record it in your DAW as you go). 

We cover this in the video manual, too!


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## InSessionAudio (Jul 23, 2019)

playz123 said:


> Looks good, Kyle! A first rate product as always from InSessionAudio! Wondering if a purchaser's sound sources could be used as well or does this work with only the samples that are included?


On behalf of all involved: Thank you! 
I'll second what EvilDragon stated - it's not impossible, but not entirely practical.

Just to mention: Riff Generation can send MIDI out via drag-and-drop or in realtime if you have sounds in other virtual instruments you'd like to have played.


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## InSessionAudio (Jul 23, 2019)

KarlHeinz said:


> was searching for a guitar.....for a guitar.....for....at....least.....maybe one......



LOL. Thanks Karl. Yeah - there are several guitars here: two electrics, a bass, an acoustic, a nylon stringed... 

So: more than one!


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## Tim_Wells (Jul 23, 2019)

Looks interesting!


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## KarlHeinz (Jul 23, 2019)

Might be a little specific in an intro sale thread but I remember having some problems following exisiting chord progressions on midi tracks with the drag and drop midi generated riff so that I preferred to render to midi in Waveform to be sure that the generated riff will follow the exisiting chord progression, then there was an update to Riffer which improves it, any further improvements to this in this version or something you just have to know ?


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## InSessionAudio (Jul 23, 2019)

KarlHeinz said:


> Might be a little specific in an intro sale thread but I remember having some problems following exisiting chord progressions...



Hi Karl - There was a bug where, in some circumstances _exported_ MIDI files wouldn't properly adhere to the scale.

This has been fixed and if you have the latest update to Riff Generation (we just released this yesterday, which adds new features) then you will not encounter that issue.

I'm not 100% sure if you're doing something a bit more specific and not getting the result you'd hope for, but if that's the case, feel free to send me a message at [email protected] and we can go over it. There is pitch bend functionality to shift notes in riffs when you might be playing a chord outside a scale, or other similar situations.

Thanks! - KZ


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## pinki (Jul 24, 2019)

This is exciting indeed Kyle. I very nearly got Riff Generation 1 but the included sound set was not my cup of tea- but everything else was great. So this version is much more interesting to me. Congratulations!


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 24, 2019)

so is this something users of riff generation 1 should also get?


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## KarlHeinz (Jul 24, 2019)

I would definitely say yes cause the sounds are not only different but the stuff that made In Session Audio famous, acoustic, guitar kind of stuff:


> Yeah - there are several guitars here: two electrics, a bass, an acoustic, a nylon stringed...


. The version 1 has only synth sounds and I agree totally to pinki:


> the included sound set was not my cup of tea- but everything else was great


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jul 24, 2019)

Congratulations, Kyle and @EvilDragon Another great library from In Session Audio. 

Kyle, I don't know if you've already posted this somewhere, but if not, would you be willing to say when this introductory offer ends? 

Thanks! 

Tiger (Reid)


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## pinki (Jul 24, 2019)

Yes congrats to EvilDragon too..


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## pinki (Jul 24, 2019)

Are we saying Kontakt 6 only?


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## SirkusPi (Jul 24, 2019)

pinki said:


> Are we saying Kontakt 6 only?



That's what the website says:



> Riff Generation: Outside In Edition runs in Kontakt or the free Kontakt Player 6.0.4 or higher (requires a minimum of Windows 7 or Mac OS 10.11.6).


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## pinki (Jul 24, 2019)

Oh well time to bite the bullet I guess..


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## EvilDragon (Jul 24, 2019)

Yes, K6 only because it's using the new reverb and delay FX from K6...


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## InSessionAudio (Jul 24, 2019)

pinki said:


> This is exciting indeed Kyle. I very nearly got Riff Generation 1 but the included sound set was not my cup of tea- but everything else was great. So this version is much more interesting to me. Congratulations!


Thanks! And if you decide to purchase: Thank you in advance!


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## InSessionAudio (Jul 24, 2019)

pinki said:


> Oh well time to bite the bullet I guess..


To put a finer point on this: no one has to abandon Kontakt 5.
They can just get the free Kontakt Player 6 and both can exist and work together (at the same time) in a DAW.


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## pinki (Jul 24, 2019)

Kyle I notice a section called Scene where Page was before..is this a 'song' mode and if it is can the scenes switch in a quantised fashion at the end of a current scene? Ta.


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## EvilDragon (Jul 24, 2019)

It should all be explained in the manual  It's not exactly a song mode. It's Scene mode.  (And yes.)


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## pinki (Jul 24, 2019)

Fab, that's what I was hoping for.. thanks


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## InSessionAudio (Jul 24, 2019)

pinki said:


> Kyle I notice a section called Scene where Page was before..is this a 'song' mode and if it is can the scenes switch in a quantised fashion at the end of a current scene? Ta.


Right - this is a new addition (and what we added this week to the existing blue version of Riff Generation: v1.5)

This is an excerpt from the explanation of this new feature (BTW: you can switch between the Scene or Page modes - so we didn't do away with the old/existing way):


_SCENE:_ Riff Generation now has the ability to store and switch amongst multiple riff patterns within the same snapshot patch.

Previously, only one riff (using up to 256 steps across eight pages) could be stored per patch.

But when switched to the new _Scene_ mode, you have access to eight slots, each of which can contain its own pattern, up to 32 steps in length.

Changing amongst patterns can be done using keyswitches, with further options to decide if each newly switched pattern should start at its beginning or keep the current place in time, relative to when you triggered the last pattern.

Scene mode provides options to copy and paste patterns from slot to slot, as needed.


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## NekujaK (Jul 24, 2019)

Sorry if I missed this elsewhere, but will the intro price still be in effect in August? My July plugin budget got hammered hard this month with the relentless river of recent releases and seductive sales


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## InSessionAudio (Jul 24, 2019)

NekujaK said:


> Sorry if I missed this elsewhere, but will the intro price still be in effect in August? My July plugin budget got hammered hard this month with the relentless river of recent releases and seductive sales



Yeah - summertime can be brutal. LOL.
But yes: through Sunday, August 11. It was going to be briefer but we've had a few people that have emailed saying that a tight timeframe can be hard to hit - so hopefully this won't put anyone's back against the wall.

Thanks!


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## Rob Elliott (Jul 24, 2019)

Brilliant release Kyle. Looking forward to using on projects!


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## pinki (Jul 24, 2019)

Did humanisation make it in to this release? I know it’s something you didn't want to put in version 1 because the vibe was more synthy, but this release is more organic so maybe humanise is in?


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## EvilDragon (Jul 24, 2019)

It's not in there.


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## pinki (Jul 25, 2019)

Purchased.


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## EvilDragon (Jul 25, 2019)

BTW regarding Humanize. There's a trick you could do to have it in yourself, but it does come with a pretty significant con, which might or might not matter to you.

1. Make a copy of the main NKI
2. Open that copy, then enter instrument edit view
3. Open Script Editor, go to slot 3
4. Save this script as a preset
5. Go to slot 2 and paste the just saved preset in there
6. Go back to slot 3 and load the factory Humanizer script in there

Now, this will work, but it has basically invalidated all the snapshots that the library comes with (they will load but in most cases you will just get silence). If you're fine with that and you want to use this for your own sound design agenda, by all means, feel free to do so.

Also do be aware that in cases where sound A is used as a sub (which means whenever sounds B-E are playing, sound A is playing alongside layered with them), and when you have note on randomization happening, this will create a different random value between sound A and sounds B-E, creating flams - this is unavoidable without special handling in the humanizer script.


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## InSessionAudio (Jul 25, 2019)

pinki said:


> Purchased.


Thank you so much for the support!


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## fiestared (Jul 25, 2019)

Bought ! I must say, the scripting of this baby is probably a "master work", everything seems so clear and easy and in the same time, with so many features ! Bravissimo


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## EvilDragon (Jul 25, 2019)

It's been indeed a decent chunk of work, and a huge amount of discussion about each and every control and feature


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## pinki (Jul 25, 2019)

Thanks for the humanise info. 
So.... that synergy between Pages and Scenes...very intuitive. Makes total sense really.


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## InSessionAudio (Jul 25, 2019)

fiestared said:


> Bought ! I must say, the scripting of this baby is probably a "master work", everything seems so clear and easy and in the same time, with so many features ! Bravissimo


Thank you so much. I'm very glad that it's hitting you that way!


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## KarlHeinz (Jul 26, 2019)

Sigh...EvilDragon, I hope your brain remembers better then mine, I have the same problem then with Riff Generation 1 while trying to render/record the midi out of Riff Generation with the chord progression I have on my midi track. That was something with overlapping notes or not overlapping but shortened notes in the chords but it does not go without this trick, I can for the hell of it not remember but I know that it worked. I had discussion with Kyle before but that does not bring a solution but your tip does it perfectly...hope you can remember

When I tried it last time I wanted to render the midi directly to a clip which worked in waveform.

I know use mixcraft and want to simply record the midi in the kontakt midi recorder from HGsounds, that worked perfecty with SARP and other stuff but not with Riff Generation, I just got mixed chaos from the chords I feed into (even if kontakt settins tell only script generated notes) and the ones Riff Generation generates.

As the Midi drag and drop still dont help me cause it wont work for chord progressions this trick is really needed.


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## InSessionAudio (Jul 26, 2019)

KarlHeinz said:


> That was something with overlapping notes or not overlapping but shortened notes in the chords but it does not go without this trick,



Hey there. I can help. Just drop me a line. But at the moment, I'm not entirely sure from your description of what's going into Riff Generation and how you want/expect its output to be different.

But off the top of my head, it could be this: Riff Generation has a screen/setting for Duration (top right corner) where you can make individual steps longer or shorter in a riff. It could be that the riff you're using/created has some steps' Duration increased, which (intentionally) causes some notes to extend over subsequent notes.


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## KarlHeinz (Jul 26, 2019)

To avoid confusing I just sent this to Kyle, sorry if it was the wrong place here


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## KarlHeinz (Jul 26, 2019)

Apart from my little workflow problem (with has nothing to do with Riff Generation functionality but only my strange workflow ideas of how I would like to have it sitting in my armchair an let evrything work as easy as possible  ) I now with Riff Generation Outside realized the SENSE of Riff Generation 1 cause they really fit so well together and complete each other soundwise.

For evrybody having none of them and thinking about it I would really, really recommend to get that bundle now at that unbeatable prize. But of course listen carefull to the sounds, I was not the only one a little disappointed from the sounds in Riff Gen 1 till now when I can hear them both together .

Still (really !) wonder how from their background they could ever have come to the idea to publish that "synthstuff" first. But now all I can say I am really, really happy with them both


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## EvilDragon (Jul 26, 2019)

MIDI drag&drop feature only uses the last note played for creating the MIDI file. You cannot have it export the whole riff with all the different input notes you created at once. You have to export a MIDI file for every different root note you send to RG.


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## KarlHeinz (Jul 27, 2019)

Thanks EvilDragon, you helped my memory, got a PM from Kyle inbetween goes in the same direction, have to try it out but I think that was the problem: I feeded complete chords into Riff Generation but it only needs/can handle the root note of the chord. And I think to get sure that evrything works fine there was something with the length of the root note (ending before the next one/overlapping/starting a bit earlier) but I am not sure if this is still needed in 1.5, I will figure this out, but main problem was only ONE root note, not the chord, thangs again Kyle and EvilDragon


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## KarlHeinz (Jul 27, 2019)

Yes, that was it, midi recorder works now as it should, great, thanks again Kyle and EvilDragon (hope I will remember next time: NO chord, only root note  )


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## pinki (Jul 27, 2019)

So I'm delving in and I have a question. (though maybe this is not the right place?)

Length lane: 32 x 1/16th's is 2 bars of 4/4. If I make them all 1/8ths I have 4 bars of 4/4.
But if I change _one_ of those values, it creates an odd length bar unless I compensate. I'm more used to notation sorry. But basically the Length lane is additive/subtractive- is that right?


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## EvilDragon (Jul 27, 2019)

Correct. If you make one step longer, then you need to make another one shorter (or reduce the number of steps in the pattern). There is far too many possibilities to cover, so this has been left to sort out at user's discretion. Using the generation buttons will always yield the chosen number of bars, though.


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## pinki (Jul 27, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Using the generation buttons will always yield the chosen number of bars, though.



Ah that was the piece of information I was needing..thanks Evildragon

Having a lot of fun here. It definitely helps to work through the manual step by step though: this is a complex beast- at least it is if you want to shape and mould it. Just hitting the big Generate button is not complex


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## jtnyc (Jul 27, 2019)

How easy is it to route in order to trigger another VI. I'm digging the sounds it comes with, but triggering other sounds would open a huge world of possibilities. I'm in Logic BTW -


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## Jack Weaver (Jul 27, 2019)

ditto...

I watched the 'Sending MIDI out of Kontakt' video. It's something that I'd very much like to do. I tried it a couple times in Logic but wasn't able to do it. What are the steps necessary to do it in Logic?

Also can you send MIDI from an instance of Kontakt to another instance of Kontakt? In video doing this in Live he showed it from an instance of Kontakt to a Live factory synth. 

Lovin' the instrument...

Thanks

.


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## Donny Grace (Jul 27, 2019)

Purchased. ...which gets me now back to owning *ALL* the In Session Audio products.


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## KarlHeinz (Jul 27, 2019)

> Also can you send MIDI from an instance of Kontakt to another instance of Kontakt?


I am afraid I have no clue about logic, but if you can route midi from any VST to another VST in Logic you can do it with kontakt, you just have to load two instances, one with Riff Generation the other with the library(s) it should go to. Only important thing is that you make the midi settings right in kontakt:
settings>engine>sent midi to outside world>script generated notes must be chosen (set hook on this). I think it is shown in the video too. But as I said I dont know about the general routing in logic but it works this way in any daw I know, no matter if its rack based approach where you could just throw whatever you like (midi arp/sequencer, instrument, effect) on a track and it works automatically, or the ones like cubase where you have to route from the midi on one track to the instrument on another track.


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## nordicguy (Jul 28, 2019)

Jack Weaver said:


> ditto...
> 
> I watched the 'Sending MIDI out of Kontakt' video. It's something that I'd very much like to do. I tried it a couple times in Logic but wasn't able to do it. What are the steps necessary to do it in Logic?
> 
> ...


Audio Unit don't pass midi information.
You have to use the Kontakt VST version within a VST wraper, e.g. Blue Cat Audio's PatchWork, New Sonic Arts's Freestyle, Loomer's Architect and the like...
Its also Kontakt script's dependent if I'm not mistaken, some Kontakt instruments won't let you doing it.
We'll need EvilDragon to confirm the latter though.


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## EvilDragon (Jul 28, 2019)

Jack Weaver said:


> What are the steps necessary to do it in Logic?



You cannot do it in Logic because AU doesn't support MIDI output from instrument plugins. AUv3 does, but Kontakt doesn't have AUv3 version.


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## Jack Weaver (Jul 28, 2019)

Thanks EvilDragon! This will save me from beating my head against a wall. Fortunately I have Bitwig also. 

.


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## Stevie (Jul 28, 2019)

This was an instabuy, such a great product. Thank you so much for it, guys!


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## dzilizzi (Jul 28, 2019)

Couple questions. The original Riff Generator is mostly synth sounds, correct? And the engines are pretty much the same? Or the new one is better? I'm wondering if there is any reason to get the first one. Nothing wrong with it, but I'm not big into synth sounds. The Inside Out version sounds are more my cup of tea, though there still are synth sounds. And I am interested in the ability to extract the midi for other VI's. 

Thanks!


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## EvilDragon (Jul 28, 2019)

Engine is the same, it had a couple of additions (but RG1 got those same additions - except the new reverb and delay in K6 which is RG2 only).


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## dzilizzi (Jul 29, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Engine is the same, it had a couple of additions (but RG1 got those same additions - except the new reverb and delay in K6 which is RG2 only).


Thank you! That makes it easy.


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## playz123 (Jul 29, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Engine is the same, it had a couple of additions (but RG1 got those same additions - except the new reverb and delay in K6 which is RG2 only).


Thank you Mario and Kyle for all the information you’ve provided in this thread. It’s been very useful. Slowly working my way through the manual and this library is far more versatile than ever imagined. I can only guess at the amount of work that went into creating it. Best of all, sound quality is superb and functionality impressive. Well done!


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## madfloyd (Jul 29, 2019)

OMG, the concept behind the riff generator is incredible, I've always wanted something like this but somehow missed the original riff generator. 

I have a lot of video that I think I should watch but to save time, can someone confirm:

1) that the main difference between the two products are that the first sounds synthy and the new one based off real instruments?

2) both versions allow midi drag and drop so that the riffs become regular midi and can be used on other instruments/libaries?

In other words, I already know that I WANT one of these products, trying to figure out if I should get both (while the intro price is still in effect) and don't have time in the next few days to digest all the videos...

Thanks!


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## EvilDragon (Jul 29, 2019)

1) That, plus the difference in delay/reverb FX used as mentioned.

2) Yes.


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## madfloyd (Jul 29, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> 1) That, plus the difference in delay/reverb FX used as mentioned.
> 
> 2) Yes.



Thank you, both versions purchased! Can't wait to play with them.


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## jneebz (Jul 30, 2019)

I've got the RG bundle in my cart...holy crap these will pay for themselves quickly! Also looking at adding Fluid Harmonics, but I'm wondering if @EvilDragon or @InSessionAudio (Kyle) could comment on Fluid Harmonics and The RG series....is there some overlap there? I see the main difference with FH having a 3-Arp engine...thanks in advance.


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## EvilDragon (Jul 30, 2019)

Completely different engines.


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## jneebz (Jul 30, 2019)

Well there goes any chance of working today...these RG libraries are so great. I was surprised at how the combination of melody and rhythm sparks inspiration...really great stuff, thanks very much @InSessionAudio and @EvilDragon for your work on these!


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## jtnyc (Jul 31, 2019)

These sound and look great. Can anyone comment on cpu usage? I'm on an older mac and just want to make sure it's not a killer. 2008 Mac Pro 2 x 2.8ghz, 16 gigs of ram.

I'm generally ok with most of what I own. Outputs Rev hit my cpu hard, other than that I'm usually fine.


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## jtnyc (Jul 31, 2019)

One other question please - There is a 12 semi tone plus or minus pitch setting above the main sequencer window. When in chromatic mode it's obvious how this will affect what gets played, but when it's set to a scale I'm not sure. How does 12 steps effect a 7 note scale? 

Thanks -


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## EvilDragon (Jul 31, 2019)

It's probably going to take a decent amount of CPU on your machine - especially because of Replika delay being used.

As for the scale question - the notes get rounded to closest pitch in the scale, depending on which note is played.


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## jtnyc (Aug 1, 2019)

Thanks ED


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## Sarah De Carlo (Aug 2, 2019)

Bought a few hours ago and I was able to produce a score in a very short time. 
To show the instrument fully, I decided not to create transitions and add effects (only percussion added). 
Probably I'll pick up the track as soon as I have time to add something, even if to be honest, I like it already as it is. 
Really a great buy. 
Highly recommended.


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## EvilDragon (Aug 2, 2019)

Excellent showcase - thanks, Sarah!



(Did they catch the culprit in the end? )


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## Sarah De Carlo (Aug 2, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Excellent showcase - thanks, Sarah!
> (Did they catch the culprit in the end? )


Thanks...
Obviously, the culprit was the butler!


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## Mark Boardman (Aug 3, 2019)

Is there a quick way to set up a patch as just a sound source without triggering a riff? I managed to just turn off everything off on the grid but there may be an easier way.


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## Dex (Aug 3, 2019)

Sarah De Carlo said:


> Bought a few hours ago and I was able to produce a score in a very short time.
> To show the instrument fully, I decided not to create transitions and add effects (only percussion added).
> Probably I'll pick up the track as soon as I have time to add something, even if to be honest, I like it already as it is.
> Really a great buy.
> Highly recommended.




This is a good showcase, but I want to be clear on something before I purchase this - does this song (which is essentially just riff generation plus a little bit of percussion) conform to the EULA, which states that unmodified samples may not appear in isolation? If so, what if there were no percussion? Would that violate the EULA?


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## EvilDragon (Aug 3, 2019)

Mark Boardman said:


> Is there a quick way to set up a patch as just a sound source without triggering a riff? I managed to just turn off everything off on the grid but there may be an easier way.



Nope, RG is all about being the sequence.

Well technically you could sorta fake it by using one of generation templates and only activating the first step of the sequence, and making all steps except the first one last as long as possible (whole note), then enable Retrigger, but it still wouldn't really behave as a synth (because note duration will be limited according to the step length + Duration table), and you still wouldn't be able to play it polyphonically (it's not meant to)...


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## Mark Boardman (Aug 3, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Nope, RG is all about being the sequence.
> Thanks, that makes sense. I really do like the sounds though.


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## Braveheart (Aug 3, 2019)

Is there by any chance a possibility to extend the intro price until the end of August? I would probably get the bundle, but if it stays until August 11th, I can afford to get only Outside In.


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## EvilDragon (Aug 4, 2019)

I'd say the intro price period was pretty generous already, no?


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## Braveheart (Aug 4, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> I'd say the intro price period was pretty generous already, no?


Well, I can be either 99$ generous or 199$ generous if there's an extension!


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## Sarah De Carlo (Aug 5, 2019)

Hello everyone.
After the showcase that I produced immediately after the purchase in just a few hours, just to get familiar with 'Riff Generation: Outside In Edition', I dedicated myself to a more demanding composition.

I start from the structure of the piece (in order to make you understand where and how it was used).
I state that I have opened a completely new project without having absolutely any idea of what genre to deal with and what kind of instrumentation to use, developing the entire first part of the song using random compositions of some Riff Generation presets.
They came out of the rhythms that led me to the action / sci-fi, inspiring the whole of the second part (melodies, various orchestrations and percussion), but for what concerns the first part of the song, removed effects and pads and the low strings spiccato, the rhythmic and melodic parts are completely produced with Riff Generation OiE.
Even the cello spiccato assolo at 0:48 has been created with RG, using the very useful melody export option through midi, which allows you to use an instrument to your liking.

Without going further, the things I like most about this instrument are the very high quality of the samples (only personal equalizations are needed based on the type of production), and the very intuitive interface perfectly interfaces with the effects (delay / reverber etc ...) that, for someone like me who normally only uses external effects, managed to convince me to work exclusively through the interface without adding practically anything in the mix channel.

Another quality that is priceless is the inspiration that this tool manages to give ... From corporate music to epic music, covering virtually every genre in production music, and if you don't have a particular need and want to create a random music, simply setting the scale (based on your mood) makes it easy to create a melody or rhythm that can direct you to any genre.

I was not required to review the product, since I purchased it, but since I bought it with the promotional price and have such a powerful tool at such a low price, leave an opinion and help other people in the purchase is the least I can do.

Sarah.


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## Dex (Aug 5, 2019)

Very nice, Sarah! Just out of curiosity what other VI's are you using in the piece?


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## InSessionAudio (Aug 5, 2019)

Jack Weaver said:


> ditto...
> 
> I watched the 'Sending MIDI out of Kontakt' video. It's something that I'd very much like to do. I tried it a couple times in Logic but wasn't able to do it. What are the steps necessary to do it in Logic?
> 
> ...



Hi Jack, Thanks!

A friend and customer created a short vid and PDF manual showing one way to send MIDI out of Kontakt in Logic. You can find both of them at the bottom of the page here:








How to Send MIDI Out from Kontakt - In Session Audio


Some Kontakt instruments generate their own MIDI. Here's how to get it out and use it!



insessionaudio.com


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## InSessionAudio (Aug 5, 2019)

Dex said:


> ...does this song (which is essentially just riff generation plus a little bit of percussion) conform to the EULA, which states that unmodified samples may not appear in isolation? If so, what if there were no percussion? Would that violate the EULA?



This does not violate the EULA. If there was no percussion, it would still be within the EULA.
We do have some language similar to what you wrote concerning some of our _loop libraries_, but not for Riff Generation/Riff Generation: Outside In Ed.

We want customers to be able to pursue money-making avenues with their music. Most limitations in our agreements are just to protect the value of the instrument for all users. Thanks!


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## InSessionAudio (Aug 5, 2019)

Sarah De Carlo said:


> Hello everyone.
> After the showcase that I produced immediately after the purchase in just a few hours, just to get familiar with 'Riff Generation: Outside In Edition'...
> 
> ...I was not required to review the product, since I purchased it, but since I bought it with the promotional price and have such a powerful tool at such a low price, leave an opinion and help other people in the purchase is the least I can do.
> ...




Dang. Thank you so much for what you wrote and shared. Your piece sounds great.

Many of the aspects you pointed out in your posts are things that take a lot of focus to try and get right, so I'm so glad that it's hitting you positively. 

Very grateful to you and everyone's support.


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## Sarah De Carlo (Aug 5, 2019)

Dex said:


> Very nice, Sarah! Just out of curiosity what other VI's are you using in the piece?


Hi Dex, Thanks.
I avoided writing the other libraries used to focus attention on the instrument, but here is the list of VI's used. 

For percussion: Taiko Creator (Other great In Session Audio library) - Eastwest Percussion and Percussion Elements (Spalsh Sound's Free Try Pack to have absolutely... download here https://www.splashsound.org/percussionelements.html).
For Strings: Spitfire Chamber strings - Solo Strings - Hans Zimmer + Novo Essentials for Ostinato).
Brass: Forzo + Majestic Horns.
BT Phobos for Pads and Keepforest AizerX Classic Trailer Toolkit for transitions + other sample from Splice.


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## Jack Weaver (Aug 6, 2019)

InSessionAudio said:


> Hi Jack, Thanks!
> 
> A friend and customer created a short vid and PDF manual showing one way to send MIDI out of Kontakt in Logic. You can find both of them at the bottom of the page here:
> 
> ...



Thanks Kyle and Kayle,

I appreciate the vid and the attention to detail on this matter. It does make clear how to use it in Logic - although in a somewhat limited way compared to other DAWs (the shortcoming being on Logic, not InSession Audio in this case). 

Fortunately I also use Bitwig and this technique works magnificently there. Including simultaneously using the audio outputs of Riff Generation, another virtual instrument and my Eurorack modules. 

Quite wonderful really. 

. 

PS - 
Still enjoying Taiko Creator.


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## EvilDragon (Aug 6, 2019)

Jack Weaver said:


> Including simultaneously using the audio outputs of Riff Generation, another virtual instrument and my Eurorack modules.



You are aware that you cannot just _say_ this on a forum, and leave it without a video example?


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## Jack Weaver (Aug 6, 2019)

Yes, I can... currently dividing my attention between 4 groups of contractors working on my house. Basically juggling with chainsaws. 

The other virtual instrument I used was an instance of Kontakt with Vln, Vla, VC & DB all playing shorts. It worked flawlessly and gave tons of depth to phrase being played by Riff Generation. 

Nonetheless, it is very technologically satisfying. Thanks for your programming. I wish more of my fave developers used your talents.

.


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## EvilDragon (Aug 6, 2019)

Jack Weaver said:


> I wish more of my fave developers used your talents.



Thanks, but the list of developers that have used my talents throughout the years is quite decent, considering I probably did around or more than 200 libraries by now.


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## Jack Weaver (Aug 6, 2019)

Not a movie, but you can see by the movement of the VU meters that Riff Generation, and a separate instance of Kontakt - _which is fed by Riff Generation's Kontakt instance - _and the Hardware CV Instrument of Bitwig _- which is also fed by Riff Generation's Kontakt instance -_ is outputting to something (in this case a Eurorack oscillator) and returning the tightly synchronized signal back to the Hardware CV Instrument of Bitwig. 

So one riff is playing three separate instruments - two instances of Kontakt and an external Eurorack module.


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## EvilDragon (Aug 6, 2019)

But in all honesty I just wanted to see Eurorack blinking lights caused by RG, eheheh.


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## Mucusman (Aug 9, 2019)

Congratulations on a fantastic project. From the clarity of the video tutorials and the written manual, to the fact that this "just works" as it ought to, I am impressed. An inspirational and fantastic sounding tool. I'm so glad I purchased this today.


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## jtnyc (Aug 11, 2019)

Last day of sale. Any new buyers have any comments on this thing. I love the concept and the sounds of outside in are great. The UI looks like a deep world of exploration and experimentation. I've got my finger on the buy button. Still a little concerned about cpu usage on my 2008 Mac Pro 2.8ghz 8 core 16 gigs of ram.


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## jneebz (Aug 11, 2019)

jtnyc said:


> Last day of sale. Any new buyers have any comments on this thing. I love the concept and the sounds of outside in are great. The UI looks like a deep world of exploration and experimentation. I've got my finger on the buy button. Still a little concerned about cpu usage on my 2008 Mac Pro 2.8ghz 8 core 16 gigs of ram.


It’s pretty CPU hungry on my 2015 iMac i5 3.2GHz QC...FWIW.


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## Braveheart (Aug 11, 2019)

I bought it yesterday. After playing a little bit with it, I think it will be very useful, considering I can also use it to create patterns for other instruments inside of my DAW, either with midi drag and drop or through midi out in Kontakt.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 11, 2019)

I like it. Haven't tried exporting the midi yet. But I like the sounds.


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## jtnyc (Aug 11, 2019)

jneebz said:


> It’s pretty CPU hungry on my 2015 iMac i5 3.2GHz QC...FWIW.


As much as I want to get it, I think I might pass. My machine is 7 years older than yours and while it holds it's own for the most part, I'm not so sure with this one...


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## EvilDragon (Aug 12, 2019)

You can always bypass spatial effects (Replika takes a decent chunk of CPU in RG2) and use external plugins. You would lose any sequenced delay/reverb sends in the patch, but overall it should reduce CPU usage considerably.


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## chandran (Aug 14, 2019)

Woaw this instrument is amazing, so much fun and inspiration with this Generator. Glad I bought it! Thank you guys!


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## pinki (Aug 17, 2019)

After a week or so I'm realising there are not too many scales. Any chance of a few more in the future?


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## Monkberry (Aug 25, 2019)

I'm late to the party but I just purchased today after watching a walk through video. Fantastic product with an endless amount of possibilities. Really brilliant design. Thank you, thank you, thank for this!!!


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## saxobob (Oct 18, 2019)

pinki said:


> After a week or so I'm realising there are not too many scales. Any chance of a few more in the future?


I agree - I'd love the scale functions in many instruments (including this which I bought yesterday) to have a custom scale feature. Then we can play with all the cool scales used on hang-drums and tongue drums.


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## EvilDragon (Oct 18, 2019)

You can already have a custom scale used when generating riffs, by using this:


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## InSessionAudio (Oct 18, 2019)

pinki said:


> After a week or so I'm realising there are not too many scales. Any chance of a few more in the future?



Thanks for the purchase!

Just to clarify for the casual passer-by: there are 15 scales featured (including chromatic). By choosing the "Chromatic" scale and then selecting the steps you'd like to use (as shown above) you can take things where you'd like!


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## InSessionAudio (Oct 18, 2019)

BTW:
Next week we will release the first Expansion pack for Riff Generation: Outside In Edition.
It is guitar-themed.

We mentioned at the time of the release that we planned on adding more patches _and _making those available for free to existing owners that purchased early.

So I just wanted to say that we're holding ourselves to that promise.
If you already own Riff Gen: Outside In you'll receive a notice next week. 

Thanks to all!


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## pinki (Oct 18, 2019)

Yes of course- chromatic and then de-select.

Thanks. 

And an expansion pack in-coming, In Session Fab


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## saxobob (Oct 19, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> You can already have a custom scale used when generating riffs, by using this:


Thanks for the info.


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## Tim_Wells (Oct 19, 2019)

InSessionAudio said:


> ...By choosing the "Chromatic" scale and then selecting the steps you'd like to use (as shown above) you can take things where you'd like!


Awe man, but then I have to know scales and understand basic music theory.  hee hee.

Sorry if these questions were already addressed:
1. When does the sale end?
2. I guess Kontakt 6 is no longer required, right? If nothing else, I assume you can use Kontakt Player?

Thanks!


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## InSessionAudio (Oct 20, 2019)

Tim_Wells said:


> Awe man, but then I have to know scales and understand basic music theory.  hee hee.



LOL. It never hurts!

The sale ends Sunday Nov, 3.

Riff Generation: Outside In Edition works in either Kontakt 6 or (the free) Kontakt Player 6.
Thanks!


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## rmak (Dec 22, 2022)

hi I just discovered this plugin, currently on sale with the 6 expansions, and wanted to see how everyone's experience using this has been over the past 2 or so years.

I watched the tutorial on exporting midi and also read in the thread that this function doesn't work as well in Logic Pro? In the tutorial, it looks you can just drag and drop the midi from the plugin onto another instrument track, if it's not Logic?

I've been trying to find YouTube videos of people using this plugin to create a track in real time or examples of tracks completed using the plugin as an inspiration for melodic/harmonic ideas. If anyone has a link or maybe their own content to share, it would be awesome.


I'm really interested in the plugin. Any feedback will help. Thanks much.


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## EvilDragon (Dec 22, 2022)

MIDI drag&drop should work in any DAW, as far as I know...


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## InSessionAudio (Dec 23, 2022)

rmak said:


> hi I just discovered this plugin, currently on sale with the 6 expansions, and wanted to see how everyone's experience using this has been over the past 2 or so years.
> 
> I watched the tutorial on exporting midi and also read in the thread that this function doesn't work as well in Logic Pro? In the tutorial, it looks you can just drag and drop the midi from the plugin onto another instrument track, if it's not Logic?
> 
> ...


Hi Rmak - Thanks for checking us out.

MIDI drag-and-drop will work in any DAW - Logic included. 

Riff Generation: Outside In can also send its riff MIDI to a DAW in realtime. This is kind of an extra, extra feature. You can see the functionality and setup in a quick vid here:








How to Send MIDI Out from Kontakt - In Session Audio


Some Kontakt instruments generate their own MIDI. Here's how to get it out and use it!



insessionaudio.com





I _believe_ Logic is still the only DAW that doesn't support this real-time MIDI out directly. But there are workarounds (there's a PDF that shows the setup in the link above) - but again, this is a feature that many users don't need since you can drag-and-drop a MIDI file of any riff directly into your DAW.

I hope this helps!


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## KarlHeinz (Dec 23, 2022)

InSessionAudio said:


> Hi Rmak - Thanks for checking us out.
> 
> MIDI drag-and-drop will work in any DAW - Logic included.
> 
> ...


As I dont know Logic I cant help on this but in general where midi out from kontakt is working I would really recommend to use this/record the midi out.

Otherwise with the midi drag and drop it could be difficult to get for example the riffs following your chord progression exactly. You could get this to work in Riff Generation (to be honest I cant remember how) but the other way is much easier (if possible in your daw of course).

And: get it with all the expansions definitely, they add so much value with instruments AND sequences (the latest Motion is incredible !).


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## PhoenixToo (Jan 4, 2023)

This plugin would be great and also more wanted by e.g. sound designers if own samples/sounds could be used. After some time of using this plugin, I've had it concerning the fixed sounds. Starts to get a bit boring...


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