# Embertone Steinway in comparison?



## StillLife (Jun 20, 2018)

Hi all,

My attention is drawn towards the recently released Walker Steinway from Embertone. It seems to be a hit. Well, if it is anything close, qualitywise, to the JB Violin....
The problem is: I'd like to buy it, but I know that I have some piano's already: Gentleman, Grandeur, Maverick and Giant in Komplete. Orange Tree's Rosewood, Spitfire's Lab Felt and Simcock Felt, Sounddust Ship's Piano and Plastic Ghost Piano.
Anyone here who has compared the Walker Steinway to the piano's they already own? Does it make a difference? Do the others pale in comparison?
Thanks in advance,
Martijn


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## Fleer (Jun 20, 2018)

Well, I can say that, between all my sampled Steinway grands, it clearly comes on top. There’s an organic feel (and sound) about it that makes it stand out. The different mics are wonderful for all sorts of uses but even the default (AKG) mics on their own are exquisite. It may be the first “playable” sampled Steinway I’ve come across. Almost mesmerizing, it takes you away while playing. So, if you like the sound and feel of a Steinway D, this is the closest you’ll get. Unless you purchase the real thing. But even then you wouldn’t easily find a 1955 model like this one. Superb.


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## chapbot (Jun 20, 2018)

I will tentatively say it's the best sampled piano I own, and I own or have played with nearly every one on the market. I say tentatively because my first reaction was 'holy mackerel this is fantastic" but then I like to come back a day later to see if I still feel the same. I did. Then the next step is to see how well it fits in one of my tracks. So far it sounds amazing, even in a dense pop track. I am beginning to think this really is my be-all-and-end-all piano. The Lite version is so cheap it doesn't hurt to at least test it out and then upgrade (I think Embertone is planning an upgrade path)


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## Francis Bourre (Jun 21, 2018)

For now I prefer Ivory American D, much more playable for real performances, but this one is nice to have for its unique character and great customization capabilities. But if I have to choose between the both, I would go for Ivory one, it's the best piano I got for my taste (and I got many...).


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## al_net77 (Jun 21, 2018)

Francis Bourre said:


> For now I prefer Ivory American D, much more playable for real performances, but this one is nice to have for its unique character and great customization capabilities. But if I have to choose between the both, I would go for Ivory one, it's the best piano I got for my taste (and I got many...).



I also own American D and I think it is one (if not THE one) of more playable on the market. I was temped from Embertone but, after many purchases (with others producers, TBO), I'm determined to not buy any other Kontakt piano library. This because I need to play, not to program...


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## Gerbil (Jun 21, 2018)

I put the Embertone in the class above the Ivory but then again I've always found the latter rather cold. The 1955 has much more personality and I find it just as playable. It has room to mature with half-pedalling etc but the core sound and experience is top quality. I've thrown everything at it from Prokofiev's 7th sonata to Chopin etudes and beyond and there haven't been any issues.


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## CGR (Jun 21, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Well, I can say that, between all my sampled Steinway grands, it clearly comes on top. There’s an organic feel (and sound) about it that makes it stand out. The different mics are wonderful for all sorts of uses but even the default (AKG) mics on their own are exquisite. It may be the first “playable” sampled Steinway I’ve come across. Almost mesmerizing, it takes you away while playing. So, if you like the sound and feel of a Steinway D, this is the closest you’ll get. Unless you purchase the real thing. But even then you wouldn’t easily find a 1955 model like this one. Superb.


I don't think Fleer is over-stating things here. He knows his sampled/virtual pianos, so I'd hold his opinion in high regard.


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## CGR (Jun 21, 2018)

Francis Bourre said:


> For now I prefer Ivory American D, much more playable for real performances, but this one is nice to have for its unique character and great customization capabilities. But if I have to choose between the both, I would go for Ivory one, it's the best piano I got for my taste (and I got many...).


Compare the pedal down resonances and the staccatos of the Ivory 2.5 American D & the Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway. In my opinion, Embertone is in another league of realism, not to mention the flexibility of mic choices available with the Embertone Steinway. I do enjoy the Ivory 2.5 American D - great playability, tone & dynamics, but I sure am glad the Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway became available!


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## StillLife (Jun 21, 2018)

Thanks! Very usefull information! Has anybody compared it to Piantoteq 6's Steinway? People rave about that one too. Fleer, you hold pianoteq in high regard, isn't it? How does the Embertone compare?


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## jon wayne (Jun 21, 2018)

Sometimes you just need to spend $35 to find out.


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## StillLife (Jun 21, 2018)

jon wayne said:


> Sometimes you just need to spend $35 to find out.


Agreed, but as the different mics and the Una Corda are frequently mentioned as the Walker's highlights, I am mainly interested in the full piano.


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## Fleer (Jun 21, 2018)

StillLife said:


> Thanks! Very usefull information! Has anybody compared it to Pianoteq 6's Steinway? People rave about that one too. Fleer, you hold pianoteq in high regard, isn't it? How does the Embertone compare?


That’s a great question. I do indeed love both, though soundwise I prefer Pianoteq’s Blüthner and Steingraeber to their Steinway. Still, I got their Steinway because of the many included presets and the unique playability of every Pianoteq instrument. Now that I have their Pro version, the sound tweaking possibilities are endless. 
As for that classic Steinway sound, though, the Embertone Walker 1955 beats ‘em all. And it’s the first sampled Steinway to achieve this level of playability as well as sonic diversity. My advice would be to get the Embertone (full with mics) and the Pianoteq Vintage Electric / Hohner bundle while adding the Blüthner and Steingraeber.


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## StillLife (Jun 21, 2018)

Fleer said:


> That’s a great question. I do indeed love both, though soundwise I prefer Pianoteq’s Blüthner and Steingraeber to their Steinway. Still, I got their Steinway because of the many included presets and the unique playability of every Pianoteq instrument. Now that I have their Pro version, the sound tweaking possibilities are endless.
> As for that classic Steinway sound, though, the Embertone Walker 1955 beats ‘em all. And it’s the first sampled Steinway to achieve this level of playability as well as sonic diversity. My advice would be to get the Embertone (full with mics) and the Pianoteq Vintage Electric / Hohner bundle while adding the Blüthner and Steingraeber.


Great advice, thank you Fleer. I do think I will go for the Embertone. Pianoteq vintage seems great too, but I already have Soniccouture's Canterbury - which I love! - and Clav, so I am not in need in that department.


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## Fleer (Jun 21, 2018)

Reminds me I need that Canterbury


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## StillLife (Jun 21, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Reminds me I need that Canterbury


Yes you do! Since I have it, I hardly havr used a piano lib anymore, since their quality pales in comparison. That's why I am interested about the Walker. 
Nice signature, btw! Tomorrow I get to see Roger Waters play it live...


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## Fleer (Jun 21, 2018)

Saw him do The Wall a few years back. Made me feel comfortably numb for a while


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## sostenuto (Jun 21, 2018)

Francis Bourre said:


> For now I prefer Ivory American D, much more playable for real performances, but this one is nice to have for its unique character and great customization capabilities. But if I have to choose between the both, I would go for Ivory one, it's the best piano I got for my taste (and I got many...).



IvoryII Italian player here, and seems every time I am impressed by something new, when I go back and make detailed comparisons, IvoryII remains my go-to. 
At such reasonable cost, I will likely add Embertone _Walker 1955 Steinway D, yet somehow feeling it will not yet be 'replacement'. 

Still hoping Embertone steps up and offers 'no-cost' Crossgrade from Lite to Full, at least for the Intro period .......


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## SoNowWhat? (Jun 21, 2018)

Any comparisons between Walker and Bechstein digital?

@Fleer ,I followed your advice when the VI Labs True Keys were on special. I’ve never been sorry. They are great. I find myself pulled inexorably towards Walker. If the clutch hadn’t given out on my car requiring replacement it would almost certainly be in my hands now.


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## Fleer (Jun 21, 2018)

Behold the clutch 
I just had to get a whole new car :(
Indeed, those TrueKeys grands (and Ravenscroft) are quite something. I warmly hold on to them because of their UVI engine. But as far as sonic scope and playability are concerned, the Embertone beats TrueKeys American.
As for the Bechstein Digital, I still dearly cherish it. There aren’t many well sampled Bechsteins around, and this one comes from the C. Bechstein Manufaktur, which is quite an achievement. And it has some wonderful sound design capabilities to boot. It’s definitely the best sampled Bechstein, although competition is less fierce than among Steinways.
But as for sampled Steinways, no other library touches the Embertone Walker 1955, in my opinion of course. You can even bend this library in so many ways, that it may be the ultimate Steinway you’ll buy. Until the next one comes along, but then again, Embertone’s sweet pricing will probably change the way other libraries will be marketed in the future, at least I believe so. Just think of Spitfire’s HZP pricing.
Embertone Walker 1955 is eminently affordable and even the Lite version sounds lovely and deep.


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## SoNowWhat? (Jun 21, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Behold the clutch
> I just had to get a whole new car :(
> Indeed, those TrueKeys grands (and Ravenscroft) are quite something. I warmly hold on to them because of their UVI engine. But as far as sonic scope and playability are concerned, the Embertone beats TrueKeys American.
> As for the Bechstein Digital, I still dearly cherish it. There aren’t many well sampled Bechsteins around, and this one comes from the C. Bechstein Manufaktur, which is quite an achievement. And it has some wonderful sound design capabilities to boot. It’s definitely the best sampled Steinway, although competition is less fierce than among Steinways.
> ...


I have never had a problem with Embertone’s pricing. Always represent value for money IMHO and I have no reason to believe the Walker is any different.

Thanks for your comments re the Bechstein. I think there’s a typo in there (one too many Steinways) but I understood your meaning.

Plan:
Step 1 - fix clutch
Step 2 - come at Walker like a spider monkey.


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## chapbot (Jun 21, 2018)

Ravenscroft has been my favorite piano up until now and I just removed it from my SSD drive to help make room for the Embertone.


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## Fleer (Jun 21, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> I have never had a problem with Embertone’s pricing. Always represent value for money IMHO and I have no reason to believe the Walker is any different.
> 
> Thanks for your comments re the Bechstein. I think there’s a typo in there (one too many Steinways) but I understood your meaning.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Corrected the typo(s)


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## Francis Bourre (Jun 22, 2018)

CGR said:


> Compare the pedal down resonances and the staccatos of the Ivory 2.5 American D & the Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway. In my opinion, Embertone is in another league of realism, not to mention the flexibility of mic choices available with the Embertone Steinway. I do enjoy the Ivory 2.5 American D - great playability, tone & dynamics, but I sure am glad the Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway became available!


Sorry, I don't get the point... Why I would compare features on paper, or should care about size and mic positions... ? Ivory got many features that Embertone doesn't have as well, but that's not an argument for me. 
When I get a new piano library, I compare it side to side (by playing the both) and determine which one gives me the greatest feeling about playing piano with expressiveness and register's sound consistency. For now Ivory is still winning the final match. Btw, I will use Embertone's one for some recordings, because it's a fantastic Steinway imitation with unique and delightful character if you adjust your play to its 9non fully flexible) implementation.
Last but not least, staccato should not even be an argument for live performance, it's a recording feature.
Another thing to mention, Embertone won another battle, it's the 1st piano till a long time that gives to me some pleasure to play with. I was so disappointed with many, last one was the C7 from Vienna Instruments.


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## al_net77 (Jun 22, 2018)

Francis Bourre said:


> Last but not least, staccato should not even be an argument for live performance, it's a recording feature.



This +1


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## CGR (Jun 22, 2018)

Francis Bourre said:


> Sorry, I don't get the point... Why I would compare features on paper, or should care about size and mic positions... ? Ivory got many features that Embertone doesn't have as well, but that's not an argument for me.
> When I get a new piano library, I compare it side to side (by playing the both) and determine which one gives me the greatest feeling about playing piano with expressiveness and register's sound consistency. For now Ivory is still winning the final match. Btw, I will use Embertone's one for some recordings, because it's a fantastic Steinway imitation with unique and delightful character if you adjust your play to its 9non fully flexible) implementation.
> Last but not least, staccato should not even be an argument for live performance, it's a recording feature.
> Another thing to mention, Embertone won another battle, it's the 1st piano till a long time that gives to me some pleasure to play with. I was so disappointed with many, last one was the C7 from Vienna Instruments.


OK - my comments were relating to playing the Embertone Steinway side-by-side against the Ivory 2.5 American D, not comparing specs on paper.
Also, the Embertone handles staccato playing more realistically for me, by virtue of the extensive set of release samples which are scripted according to velocity and note length with normal playing, so this DOES affect live performance. The staccato switch on the Embertone Steinway engages a completely different set of staccato samples, which are more suitable for use in recording, but can also be turned on & off via a CC message.


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## Per Lichtman (Jul 19, 2018)

Fleer said:


> There’s an organic feel (and sound) about it that makes it stand out.
> 
> ...Almost mesmerizing, it takes you away while playing.



I’m writing a review of the library for the September issue of SoundbytesMag.net and this one of the big highlights for me in working with the library: that “organic” sound. I haven’t spent a ton of time doing live recordings of pianos, but when I did, whether they were an old Steinway or an August Foerster Model 215, they often “felt” more organic than many sampled piano libraries. Embertone really got a lot of the organic sound in this one and it makes the piano “breathe” and “blend” in a way some others don’t - compare to NI’s the Grandeur, which cuts more and blends less.


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## Per Lichtman (Jul 20, 2018)

Here's a playlist comparing some options with the Embertone Walker 1955 to NI The Grandeur and the EWQL Pianos Gold Steinway. I disabled as much FX processing as possible and for the Walker I enabled adaptive release sustains. I also disabled all pedal noise in the Walker because The Grandeur has a very clean sound and I didn't want that to be a distraction.


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## JeffvR (Jul 20, 2018)

chapbot said:


> I will tentatively say it's the best sampled piano I own, and I own or have played with nearly every one on the market. I say tentatively because my first reaction was 'holy mackerel this is fantastic" but then I like to come back a day later to see if I still feel the same. I did. Then the next step is to see how well it fits in one of my tracks. So far it sounds amazing, even in a dense pop track. I am beginning to think this really is my be-all-and-end-all piano. The Lite version is so cheap it doesn't hurt to at least test it out and then upgrade (I think Embertone is planning an upgrade path)


Agree. I own all Komplete pianos, Pianoteq, Piano in Blue, Fluffy Scoring Piano, 8dio Steinway 1928, Malmsjo. So I have some Steinways to compare it with . Embertone seems to have the best tone combined with very good playability and a little bit of character. It also seems to be a bit brighter (in a good way) than the rest.


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## Per Lichtman (Jul 20, 2018)

JeffvR said:


> Agree. I own all Komplete pianos, Pianoteq, Piano in Blue, Fluffy Scoring Piano, 8dio Steinway 1928, Malmsjo. So I have some Steinways to compare it with . Embertone seems to have the best tone combined with very good playability and a little bit of character. It also seems to be a bit brighter (in a good way) than the rest.



Interesting - I wouldn't really think of it as "brighter" compared to The Grandeur (at least with their factory settings) at least in terms of the clarity of the direct instrument tone. In fact, I had to tweak the EQ settings when I wanted more of that. On the other hand, it does seem to have a bit more "air" to my ear in the high frequency and sounds less processed.

Would you say that's a fair way of depicting the high frequency difference that your hearing? Or are your ears picking up something else?


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## ptram (Sep 8, 2018)

I'm very much confused by the opinions on the Embertone's Steinway. What I hear in Per's comparison is a very rich, resonant sound, with a timbre much richer than the piano I use the most (Grandeur), and a creaminess that can't be found in the recent libraries based on Yamaha pianos.

At the same time, the lack of half-pedaling is something that makes it unusable for the way I play. And then, someone says it is pleasant to play, some other that it is far, distant, non-responsive. I wonder why impressions on this piano vary so much.

Any update on the next update?

Paolo


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 8, 2018)

ptram said:


> I'm very much confused by the opinions on the Embertone's Steinway. What I hear in Per's comparison is a very rich, resonant sound, with a timbre much richer than the piano I use the most (Grandeur), and a cremyness that can't be found in the recent libraries based on Yamaha pianos.
> 
> At the same time, the lack of half-pedaling is something that makes it unusable for the way I play. And then, someone says it is pleasant to play, some other that it is far, distant, non-responsive. I wonder why impressions on this piano vary so much.
> 
> ...


Well, I can only speak from my experience. I have the full mic set and my favourite combo is wide and hammer together. I select the classical preset (with all velocity layers enabled) and run it through my preferred channel strip. It is gorgeous to my ears and so very intimate. I can only tell you my experience but I love it. 

Half pedalling is supposed to be coming in the update so maybe wait and hear what people have to say about it with that feature added.


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## keepitsimple (Sep 8, 2018)

I have all the mics and i must admit that i was under the influence of severe G.A.S when i bought it and kept buying all the remaining mics. 

Sound wise, it does sound great but my main issue with it is the playability. It feels as if there's latency when playing it even at the lowest buffer, as if i'm wearing gloves when playing it. Funny thing is that i kept buying the mics even though i was aware of the latency issue. Now that's what i call a serious under-the-gas-influence incident.

Right now, it's moved to an external archives drive for safe keeping, until the promised update is released.


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## ptram (Sep 9, 2018)

I may be confused, so sorry if I'm posting something already posted here.

For comparison with a very widely available sampled Steinway D, I've created some renditions of Wolfgangmeister's midifiles with NI Grandeur. The preset/snapshot is Concert Hall, without and with its own reverb.

- Gluck-Sgambati's Melodie (dry)
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/gluck-sgambati-melodie-grandeur-dry-mp3.15215/][/AUDIOPLUS]

- Gluck-Sgambati's Melodie (with reverb)
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/gluck-sgambati-melodie-grandeur-rev-mp3.15216/][/AUDIOPLUS]

- Liszt's Orage (dry)
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/liszt-orage-grandeur-dry-mp3.15217/][/AUDIOPLUS]

- Liszt's Orage (with reverb)
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/liszt-orage-grandeur-rev-mp3.15218/][/AUDIOPLUS]

Paolo


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## ptram (Sep 12, 2018)

A famous piece by Prokofiev to which I'm working on, performed by the Grandeur and the Walker. Lossless, because converting to MP3 removes a lot of the more interesting details.

Fantastic sound, very full presence, but there is indeed something going wrong with the pedal in the Embertone. Notes under pedal are often cut. And am I the only one to feel a slight – but noticeable – change in volume when the pedal switches up/down? (Try, for example, around 1:20-1:55).

Paolo

(Attachments removed to save space in the servers. Updated examples are later in this thread).


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## wolfgangmeister (Sep 19, 2018)

ptram said:


> A famous piece by Prokofiev to which I'm working on, performed by the Grandeur and the Walker. Lossless, because converting to MP3 removes a lot of the more interesting details.
> 
> Fantastic sound, very full presence, but there is indeed something going wrong with the pedal in the Embertone. Notes under pedal are often cut. And am I the only one to feel a slight – but noticeable – change in volume when the pedal switches up/down? (Try, for example, around 1:20-1:55).
> 
> Paolo


Nice playing! The Embertone does have a fantastic sound... but I hear the same thing regarding the pedaling.


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## wolfgangmeister (Sep 19, 2018)

ptram said:


> I'm very much confused by the opinions on the Embertone's Steinway. What I hear in Per's comparison is a very rich, resonant sound, with a timbre much richer than the piano I use the most (Grandeur), and a creaminess that can't be found in the recent libraries based on Yamaha pianos.
> 
> At the same time, the lack of half-pedaling is something that makes it unusable for the way I play. And then, someone says it is pleasant to play, some other that it is far, distant, non-responsive. I wonder why impressions on this piano vary so much.
> 
> ...


New member to vi-control.net and enjoying reading this thread regarding Embertone's Steinway. I am a PianoTeq v6.2.2 Standard owner and very impressed with the new Steingraeber E-272 instrument. I also own the Grotrian Concert Royal, Bluethner Model One, and Steinway D... listed in order of preference. Totally agree with ptram's Embertone comments, and have enjoyed the discussion and excellent demos above. From everything I've observed, the Embertone is providing a very rich timbre and creamy character not seen before in sampled pianos, BUT regarding playability and realization of pedaling, half-pedaling, proportional pedaling, it is very poor; especially when playing large concert like pieces. From the demos, PianoTeq seems to be the best at realizing complex pedaling; Garritan's Yamaha CFX maybe being the best of the sampled pianos... from a pedaling perspective. It seems the update to this problem has been pending some scripting work by Embertone for some time now. Hoping to hear of an update soon.


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## wolfgangmeister (Sep 19, 2018)

Per Lichtman said:


> Here's a playlist comparing some options with the Embertone Walker 1955 to NI The Grandeur and the EWQL Pianos Gold Steinway. I disabled as much FX processing as possible and for the Walker I enabled adaptive release sustains. I also disabled all pedal noise in the Walker because The Grandeur has a very clean sound and I didn't want that to be a distraction.



Thanks for the excellent comparisons and demos!


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 19, 2018)

wolfgangmeister said:


> New member to vi-control.net and enjoying reading this thread regarding Embertone's Steinway. I am a PianoTeq v6.2.2 Standard owner and very impressed with the new Steingraeber E-272 instrument. I also own the Grotrian Concert Royal, Bluethner Model One, and Steinway D... listed in order of preference. Totally agree with ptram's Embertone comments, and have enjoyed the discussion and excellent demos above. From everything I've observed, the Embertone is providing a very rich timbre and creamy character not seen before in sampled pianos, BUT regarding playability and realization of pedaling, half-pedaling, proportional pedaling, it is very poor; especially when playing large concert like pieces. From the demos, PianoTeq seems to be the best at realizing complex pedaling; Garritan's Yamaha CFX maybe being the best of the sampled pianos... from a pedaling perspective. It seems the update to this problem has been pending some scripting work by Embertone for some time now. Hoping to hear of an update soon.


Welcome!


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## jaketanner (Sep 19, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> I have all the mics and i must admit that i was under the influence of severe G.A.S when i bought it and kept buying all the remaining mics.
> 
> Sound wise, it does sound great but my main issue with it is the playability. It feels as if there's latency when playing it even at the lowest buffer, as if i'm wearing gloves when playing it. Funny thing is that i kept buying the mics even though i was aware of the latency issue. Now that's what i call a serious under-the-gas-influence incident.
> 
> Right now, it's moved to an external archives drive for safe keeping, until the promised update is released.



What DAW were you using? I have it, and I don't feel any latency...I've used it mostly in stand alone mode for practice...so maybe it's inherent to a DAW situation.


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## keepitsimple (Sep 19, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> What DAW were you using? I have it, and I don't feel any latency...I've used it mostly in stand alone mode for practice...so maybe it's inherent to a DAW situation.


Ableton. I tried standalone, still something feels "distant" about it when i play it. Trust me, i spent days brainstorming this, even with Alex through emails, and i still feel that disconnection. 

My last hope is the update.


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## jaketanner (Sep 19, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> Ableton. I tried standalone, still something feels "distant" about it when i play it. Trust me, i spent days brainstorming this, even with Alex through emails, and i still feel that disconnection.
> 
> My last hope is the update.



What controller are you using? Is it possible that it's the controller? If you have others, maybe try them. I will need to do some further tests to really see what you mean. For now, I don't need it for any huge project, so the update might come out before I realize that there's something wrong..lol


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## keepitsimple (Sep 19, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> What controller are you using? Is it possible that it's the controller? If you have others, maybe try them. I will need to do some further tests to really see what you mean. For now, I don't need it for any huge project, so the update might come out before I realize that there's something wrong..lol


Casio digital piano, Korg Kronos and Keystation 49. Same story with all controllers. If you don't feel that disconnection, nevermind me lol !


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## wolfgangmeister (Sep 19, 2018)

ptram said:


> I may be confused, so sorry if I'm posting something already posted here.
> 
> For comparison with a very widely available sampled Steinway D, I've created some renditions of Wolfgangmeister's midifiles with NI Grandeur. The preset/snapshot is Concert Hall, without and with its own reverb.
> 
> ...



For comparison, I've attached some equivalent comparisons of my Gluck-Sgambati 'Melodie' and Liszt 'Orage' MIDI recordings, as rendered by PianoTeq Standard v6.2.2 - utilizing their new Steingraeber E-272 instrument. The Gluck was recorded this past July 2018 using my Mason & Hamlin BB keyboard and ProRecord MIDI as the controller, with the MuteRail engaged and listening with headphones to the Steingraeber - as I performed the piece. I recorded the Liszt some years ago using an old Yamaha Clavinova CLP-545 as the MIDI controller. I rendered both MIDI performances through the same two PianoTeq v6.2.2 pianos: Steingraeber Prelude (velocity modified for WNG action) for the 'dry' performance and Steingraeber Recording 3 (WNG velocity modified, Concert Hall, extra mics) for the 'reverb' performance.

The Steingraeber E-272 is quite an upgrade for PianoTeq as far as modeled instruments go, and the playability as well as the proportional, half, and partial pedaling of this VI is without equal when I compare it to Embertone, Production Voices, NI Grandeur, etc. This is especially evident in the Liszt, where many of the VI instruments cut out during the rapid or precise pedaling. Only the Garritan Concert CFX comes close to PianoTeq relative to recreating the actual performance. I look forward to hearing the playback on the Embertone once the update is released.

- Gluck-Sgambati's Melodie (dry): PianoTeq v6.2.2 - Steingraeber E-272
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/gluck-sgambatis-melodie-dry-pianoteq-6-e272-mp3.15341/][/AUDIOPLUS]

- Gluck-Sgambati's Melodie (with reverb): PianoTeq v6.2.2 - Steingraeber E-272
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/gluck-sgambatis-melodie-reverb-pianoteq-6-e272-mp3.15342/][/AUDIOPLUS]

- Liszt's Orage (dry): PianoTeq v6.2.2 - Steingraeber E-272
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/liszts-orage-dry-pianoteq-6-e272-mp3.15343/][/AUDIOPLUS]

- Liszt's Orage (with reverb): PianoTeq v6.2.2 - Steingraeber E-272
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/liszts-orage-reverb-pianoteq-6-e272-mp3.15344/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Francis Bourre (Sep 20, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> I have all the mics and i must admit that i was under the influence of severe G.A.S when i bought it and kept buying all the remaining mics.
> 
> Sound wise, it does sound great but my main issue with it is the playability. It feels as if there's latency when playing it even at the lowest buffer, as if i'm wearing gloves when playing it. Funny thing is that i kept buying the mics even though i was aware of the latency issue. Now that's what i call a serious under-the-gas-influence incident.
> 
> Right now, it's moved to an external archives drive for safe keeping, until the promised update is released.



I fully agree, I totally had the same experience. I'm waiting for the update now, and who knows better playability...


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## ptram (Oct 7, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> Sound wise, it does sound great but my main issue with it is the playability. It feels as if there's latency when playing it even at the lowest buffer, as if i'm wearing gloves when playing it.


I could finally understand what you mean. I compared playing the Walker against The Grandeur, and found that what I could play effortlessly with this latter, caused a lot of mistakes with the former.

It is as if the Walker is left behind. Hard to explain, because if measurable, it would be some milliseconds. But it is enough to disconnect the player from the sound. The samples are streamed from an SSD, with the Batch Resave executed. It should be in the best conditions.

I hope this can be fixed, because this behavior prevents (at least for me) from playing with it. It can, however, still work fine in playback from a DAW.

Paolo


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## jonnybutter (Oct 7, 2018)

To me the Walker is kind of like a more detailed version of Piano in Blue. They are both excellent, but the Walker is just a bit more excellent. I have many pianos, and the Walker is my overall fav right now.


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## Fleer (Oct 7, 2018)

Jonny Walker


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## ptram (Nov 27, 2018)

While waiting for the new presets from Embertone, I did two other tries. This time, The Grandeur has all the pedal features turned on (repedalling, half-pedal, resonance, noises…). The Embertone is proposed with a mix of two mic pairs: the Close (giving power and clarity) and the Main (adding perspective). I set the dynamic range of the Embertone to full (from 0 to 127, no compression). Pedal apart, really stunning!

EDIT: Added the VSL Vienna Imperial (Close+Distant mics, no reverb, 2sus/resonance after key on activated). Not a Steinway but a Bösendorfer, just for an additional comparison.

Paolo


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## Scamper (Nov 27, 2018)

How about performance?
I just got the Emertone Steinway Lite, but while it sounds nice, I can barely play a few notes without the CPU in Kontakt hitting red an clipping. I never had that with other pianos.
What are your experiences? Any advice on what might help?


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## Per Lichtman (Nov 27, 2018)

Scamper said:


> How about performance?
> I just got the Emertone Steinway Lite, but while it sounds nice, I can barely play a few notes without the CPU in Kontakt hitting red an clipping. I never had that with other pianos.
> What are your experiences? Any advice on what might help?



It might be helpful to have a sense for what other pianos you are using and the way you perform. On my system, the only way to get that sort of CPU usage on the Lite version would be to hold down the pedal and play a fair number of notes. How many voices/notes is it showing in Kontakt when you run into the problem? It might be a matter of needing to decrease the max number, but given the info. so far there could be a lot of possibilities.


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## slobajudge (Nov 27, 2018)

Scamper said:


> How about performance?
> I just got the Emertone Steinway Lite, but while it sounds nice, I can barely play a few notes without the CPU in Kontakt hitting red an clipping. I never had that with other pianos.
> What are your experiences? Any advice on what might help?


Increase max voices number from default 100 to at least 200 or more in Kontakt and problem will be solved.


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## Werty (Nov 27, 2018)

My ears in this comparison for example prefer the Pearl Concert Grand (post #8), it sounds just more pleasant than the Embertone. What do you think?

https://vi-control.net/community/th...-ivory-american-concert-d.77170/#post-4312603


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## Scamper (Nov 27, 2018)

Per Lichtman said:


> How many voices/notes is it showing in Kontakt when you run into the problem? It might be a matter of needing to decrease the max number, but given the info. so far there could be a lot of possibilities.


I had the issue with as little as 10-20 voices, which made it seem so weird. 
But now, it seems that the problem is gone. I already tried some things before and did some restarts, which didn't help, but suddenly it's alright and the cpu stays reasonably low even at 100 voices.


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## galactic orange (Nov 27, 2018)

I don’t know if it helps, but I think it’s always a good idea to do a batch resave.


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## Scamper (Nov 27, 2018)

galactic orange said:


> I don’t know if it helps, but I think it’s always a good idea to do a batch resave.


Yep, first thing to do with a new library.


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## MichaelB (Nov 28, 2018)

I have problems with my installation. In Kontakt non of the effects on the Colors tab is working , no reverb, no EQ etc. I have already entered the serial number in Native Access. Should I delete everything and download + install again?


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## ptram (Mar 11, 2019)

Today I did another comparison. I pounded some Bach and Mussorgsky on the Walker (v1) and the Vienna Imperial. Both set at 64 samples of buffer. Both read from an external SSD and controlled by a VPC-1. Playback via a pair of Mackie HR-824 mkI.

The pedal, first of all: while neither the VSL nor the Embertone feature half pedal, the pedal release in the former is more gradual, and can approximate at least the effect of continuous release of the pedal. Not so the Walker, that is immediately cut. It is as if one has a long release in the sample, the other lacks it. Maybe the variable release sampling made by VSL also regards sustained notes.

The on/off activation of both the damper pedal and the soft pedal seems better balanced in the Imperial. With the Walker I can hear a change in volume when pressing one of the pedals. The Imperial only changes timbre. Also, I feel the pedal change noise to be too strong with the Walker. While missing some important features, I feel the pedal behavior of the VSL more natural, with even a hint of repedalling (that shouldn't be there, but can be clearly noticed).

The Walker seems to do ribattuto notes better. This is surprising, considering that it seems to remain behind during normal playing. Play big chords in the "Pictures at an Exhibition", and the sound comes a little after you expect it. It also seems to miss some notes sometimes. Not so with the Imperial, always perfectly in time.

The Walker lacks a little on the fff side of dynamics. The Imperial on the opposite side, with ppp always sounding a bit too loud. Both have a gorgeous sound, an excellent representation of the original instruments – rich and well blended, much on the wooden side, the old Steinway, clear and focused, a bit steely, the Bösendorfer.

Still, I find that the most playable piano in my arsenal is The Grandeur. The sample is not as accurate, yet I feel there is something right in the scripting.

Paolo


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## jaketanner (Mar 11, 2019)

ptram said:


> Today I did another comparison. I pounded some Bach and Mussorgsky on the Walker (v1) and the Vienna Imperial. Both set at 64 samples of buffer. Both read from an external SSD and controlled by a VPC-1. Playback via a pair of Mackie HR-824 mkI.
> 
> The pedal, first of all: while neither the VSL nor the Embertone feature half pedal, the pedal release in the former is more gradual, and can approximate at least the effect of continuous release of the pedal. Not so the Walker, that is immediately cut. It is as if one has a long release in the sample, the other lacks it. Maybe the variable release sampling made by VSL also regards sustained notes.
> 
> ...



I do not doubt the VSL is awesome...if I had the funds, I'd get it also..however, I do have the Walker. I spent quite some time tweaking it to where I feel it's as perfect as it's going to get, until the update is released. Also, the mic position helps with the sound of the Walker for sure..they're all slightly different, and also play a bit different as well. If you compare the Walker straight out of the box, it's not going to be as good as it can be for sure.


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