# Can I put my entire studio into a laptop-based system?



## musicalweather (Jul 17, 2017)

Hi everyone,

I'm in the process of setting up a second, kind of portable studio and am wondering if you all could help me narrow my choices. Because I'm finding myself away from my main studio quite a lot these days (taking care of family members in another town), I'd like to have an alternate setup at this second location. 

I'm leaning toward a laptop, just because it seems like it would be more convenient and efficient. I suppose I could exchange files with my home studio using thumb drives or email, but somehow I think it would all be easier with a laptop.

What I'd like to run minimally with the laptop is Digital Performer 9, Vienna Ensemble Pro 5, and Komplete Ultimate 11. But it would be nice to run other libraries that are part of my current studio, such as Cinematic Strings 2, EW Hollywood Brass Gold, Sonokinetic Woodwinds ensembles, the percussion part of EWQLSO Platinum, Omnisphere 1, Trillian, EZ Drummer (+ some expansions), Addictive Drums.

I initially thought that I would use this alternate setup to do sketching of ideas and then flesh out everything at my home studio. But now I'm thinking it would be better if I could just have a portable version of most everything I have in my home studio. 

Here's what I'm imagining: 

Laptop with two large monitors attached to it
Sizeable external drive to hold libraries
Using Digital Performer and VE Pro 5
I guess my question is *whether a laptop is feasible for handling all this*. I'd prefer a Mac laptop, but a new one is out of my budget, so I'm considering a used one. Alternatively, I could get a PC laptop and run DP 9 on that. 

In my home studio, I use a desktop Mac (now very old!) to run Digital Performer 9. This is networked with a much newer PC using VE Pro. The fact that I will probably have to replace the Mac desktop in the near future is also something I'm thinking about.

I know this is a wide ranging question, but I welcome your thoughts about any part of it. Thanks!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 17, 2017)

For what it's worth, I use a 2013 MBP Retina and it still runs solid. It has 16GB Ram (max), but it's a beast. With an external drive(s) you would be able to load up some good sized projects based on the libraries you mentioned. I don't use DP, I run Logic pro, PT, and Cubase 9.


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## Anders Bru (Jul 17, 2017)

I use a 2015 MacBook Pro, 16GB RAM, and an external Samsung 1TB SSD for my libraries. It's plugged into an external monitor for bigger viewing, and works like a charm! I'm running a 300-track template in Cubase, where I have one Kontakt instance per track, but all tracks disabled (except for piano). So I simply enable the tracks I want as I go. I'm not sure if this feature is available in DP. I am absolutely blown away by the power of this thing! And with some purge-trickery within Kontakt, and besides the occasional "freeze track" or "bounce to audio", it can easily run my biggest projects!


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## N.Caffrey (Jul 17, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> For what it's worth, I use a 2013 MBP Retina and it still runs solid. It has 16GB Ram (max), but it's a beast. With an external drive(s) you would be able to load up some good sized projects based on the libraries you mentioned. I don't use DP, I run Logic pro, PT, and Cubase 9.



same here. after almost 5 years still holds up really well!


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jul 17, 2017)

I have a "Republic of Gamers" Asus Laptop with 24gb of RAM and full SSD (1,5To). Using it live with my band, in my home studio with additional monitors, everywhere 

Love this configuration, but 32gb of RAM seems to be a physical limitation and I'm afraid I would need more than that in the near future.

If you don't, laptops are great !


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## mc_deli (Jul 18, 2017)

My 2015 2.2 rMBP will only run one ext monitor FWIW

Edit: should read "one ext monitor if it is 4k 60hz"


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## nas (Jul 18, 2017)

Absolutely it's doable. I've tackled a few demanding projects with a 2009 MB Pro. The only thing is that at the time I did have to do quite a bit of bouncing and freezing tracks as I was underpowered. However this was before SSD's were more common (internal and external) and of course laptops are more powerful now. 

I'm currently planning a mobile rig with a MBP, some external SSD's, and having a couple of Mac minis rack-mounted and networked with Vienna Ensemble Pro. The thing to keep in mind is your RAM bottle neck. The MBP and Mac Minis max out at 16GB which is not very high nowadays, especially given that quite a few of the really good libraries are quite resource hungry. 

Still you can get a lot of work done and have a powerful mobile rig if you allocate and manage your resources efficiently. 

Good luck.


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## Trombking (Jul 18, 2017)

In case you are interested in a Windows based laptop I can recommend a ThinkPad T460/470P by Lenovo. It's available with real quad core i5s or i7s and the ram is upgradable to 32 GB...


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 18, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> My 2015 2.2 rMBP will only run one ext monitor FWIW



You can connect two....here is my setup: connect one to HDMI, and the other to Thunderbolt using a T-Bolt>VGA adaptor. I have also heard of others using an HDMI>USB adaptor, and plugging a third monitor into a USB port directly on the MacBook (although I have yet to test this).


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## JPQ (Jul 18, 2017)

Is these 2013 mac portables what you talk quad core models? i bet they are.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 18, 2017)

Mine's a late 2013: 

2.3 GHz Intel Core i7 16GB Ram
512 GB SSD
NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2048 MB
Intel Iris Pro 1536 MB


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## mc_deli (Jul 19, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> You can connect two....here is my setup: connect one to HDMI, and the other to Thunderbolt using a T-Bolt>VGA adaptor. I have also heard of others using an HDMI>USB adaptor, and plugging a third monitor into a USB port directly on the MacBook (although I have yet to test this).


Do you have the same 2.2 ghz Iris integrated graphics rMbp?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 19, 2017)

Yes, but in the display settings I have the high performance graphics on exclusively (NVIDIA).


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## mc_deli (Jul 20, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> You can connect two....here is my setup: connect one to HDMI, and the other to Thunderbolt using a T-Bolt>VGA adaptor. I have also heard of others using an HDMI>USB adaptor, and plugging a third monitor into a USB port directly on the MacBook (although I have yet to test this).


The posts have a strange order there... Anyway... Ymmv... You can only connect one ext monitor to my model of rMBP that has Iris integrated graphics. With the other models that have a graphics card you can connect more than one. If I had known this at the time of purchase I would have bought the discreet graphics model:(


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 20, 2017)

Mc_Deli, is your a 13"?


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## mc_deli (Jul 21, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Mc_Deli, is your a 13"?


15" 2.2 16gb 2015 rmbp


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 21, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> 15" 2.2 16gb 2015 rmbp



You can. Connect one to Thunderbolt using a VGA adaptor (or whatever you monitor connection is), and another to the HDMI port (you may also need an adaptor). This is how mine is setup, and I'm pretty certain you have the same ports.


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## mc_deli (Jul 21, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> You can. Connect one to Thunderbolt using a VGA adaptor (or whatever you monitor connection is), and another to the HDMI port (you may also need an adaptor). This is how mine is setup, and I'm pretty certain you have the same ports.


You state above you have the model with Nvidia graphics, no?
I have a 4k 60hz monitor over Display port 1.2 from one TB port. I cannot get another monitor to work via the HDMI port. I read previously that two ext monitors was not possible on some Iris integrated graphics rMbp models. I wish I could get another screen to work as I have another identical 4k and 2 old 19" screens idle


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## Zhao Shen (Jul 21, 2017)

I mean if the question is "can I?" then the answer is "yes, certainly." I do quite a bit of traveling every year so my rig is a laptop with i7 4700K and 32GB RAM. Can't wait to settle down so I can finally build a desktop rig, but I've grown quite fond of how reliable my laptop has been these past few years.


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## mc_deli (Jul 21, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> You can. Connect one to Thunderbolt using a VGA adaptor (or whatever you monitor connection is), and another to the HDMI port (you may also need an adaptor). This is how mine is setup, and I'm pretty certain you have the same ports.


Ok i think i found it: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT206587
I think the scenario is that I can only run one ext monitor with the 2015 rMbp when that monitor is 4k 60hz... The part in this article about MST explains this limitation.

( I had remembered that the one/two ext displays limitation was a graphics/model limitation. That was bogus. If i understand correctly the limitation is that you can only use one ext monitor if it is a 4k 60hz and applies to all pre-2016 rMBPs. Sorry for my imprecise earlier post)


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## mc_deli (Jul 21, 2017)

Back to the OP: I have a TB2 dock, 4k monitor, 2 Evo 850 1TB for samples, usb hub and a bunch of controllers, synths hanging off it. The 2.2 rMBP is a great machine. But the 16gb ram kills me. I can run 100 track projects in Logic, I have tried VEPro with a serious orchestral template and lots of spatial plugs and routing... But e.g. BWW and the like are not enjoyable with so little Ram. Constantly running at the ram limit is a world of pain. That said for Komplete/Toontrack hybrid less heavy it's just OK most of the time.


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## chimuelo (Jul 21, 2017)

A short depth ATA 2U Chassis with a Xeon E3-1200 v6 isn't much bigger than a laptop.
64 or 128GBs of RAM.
Dual NVMe SSDs and a pair of 1TB SSDs is easily fitted.
I use a similar 1U with 32GBs.
You can have a 2U with 2 x 1U PCs Master/slave VEPro...
Laptops are great but real power isn't much bigger.
Very portable and much sturdier than plastic..


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 22, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> Ok i think i found it: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT206587
> I think the scenario is that I can only run one ext monitor with the 2015 rMbp when that monitor is 4k 60hz... The part in this article about MST explains this limitation.
> 
> ( I had remembered that the one/two ext displays limitation was a graphics/model limitation. That was bogus. If i understand correctly the limitation is that you can only use one ext monitor if it is a 4k 60hz and applies to all pre-2016 rMBPs. Sorry for my imprecise earlier post)



Thanks for that! Good to know, and yes it is bogus.


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## rgames (Jul 22, 2017)

Regarding the original question: can you put your studio into a laptop? The answer is yes. But there are compromises in your workflow.

I recently spent a year working full orchestral mock-ups exclusively from a laptop and it's definitely do-able these days. There are two major workflow impacts: latency and track bouncing. In general, a laptop is going to run at higher latency than a desktop machine. And, because of RAM and/or voice count limitations, you're going to have to bounce tracks more often. But you can easily work around those limitations. In fact, it's really not much of an issue: if you're writing two minutes a day on a desktop you can still do two minutes a day on a laptop. It's just a bit more hassle.

Here's my recommendation: get a 17" laptop with at least 32 GB RAM (64 GB is preferable) and four internal drives (one NVMe and three 2.5" drives). That way you won't need a monitor or external drives - everything is in one package. A 15" laptop with external drives is MUCH less portable than a 17" laptop with the drives inside. And 17" screens are very workable, so you don't need an external monitor. Plus, larger laptops run cooler and don't throttle down the CPU as much when under load.

Also, set up a modular VEPro template that uses the same instances on your laptop and desktop. That way it doesn't matter if you're on the laptop or desktop, you have the same template. You just leave some of the VEPro instances disconnected on the laptop and connect/disconnect/bounce as necessary. That way you can use one project template for both and it's easy to go between the two.

rgames


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## Maximvs (Jul 23, 2017)

I have a 17" laptop with 32GB RAM and two internal disks with the possibility to have a third HD if I remove the CD/DVD drive bay. It is a beast of a laptop even though it is four years old. I have noticed that these kind of mobile workstations as some people like to call them have a tendency to heat up quite a bit and was wondering if using a Cooling Pad may be a good idea to prevent internal fans to start spinning all the time... Any good recommendation for a good cooling pad is also very welcomed... Cheers, Max


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## scoringdreams (Jul 23, 2017)

Hello there, I had been thinking about this laptop mobile rig idea for quite some time too. Just got my mobile rig set up yesterday.

It consists of a 16GB RAM MBP 2017 and samples are streamed from an Akitio Thunder3 Quad Mini. I have a nice Satechi USB C dock to handle midi controller connections, but nowadays, there are wireless midi controllers from AKAI and Korg which helps a lot. We apple users dream of a 32Gb RAM MBP but it probably won't appear until 2020.

I am running Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra (Economic Patches for reasons) with Garritan CFX, and Omnisphere 2. I compose for indie games and visual novel developers.

Will report on the machine's performance in a few days time.

Anyway, IMO, I feel that one should always have 2 setups, a mobile rig and a desktop rig. A mobile rig definitely has its compromises and that's when a desktop rig (eg: iMac Pro =P) comes in. You use one on-the-go and the other in the studio.


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## musicalweather (Jul 28, 2017)

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate all your thoughts about this. I'm still in the process of deciding. Can't shell out for a brand new MBP, but am looking at ones that are a couple of years old, perhaps even used, with these specs: 15" screen, 2.7 GHz quad-core Intel Core i7, 512 GB, 16GB memory. But for about the same price I can get a 15" PC laptop with 32 GB ram, 512 GB SSD, plus an extra 1 TB SATA drive. No thunderbolt connectors, though. The RAM capacity is a concern to me, based on your comments. 

I am a little reluctant to go over to PC, though I use a PC desktop to hold my sample libraries. I'm just so used to the Mac workflow. Don't know how much trouble it would be to send Digital Performer files back and forth between a Mac and PC. I downloaded a demo of DP onto someone else's PC and then opened the same file on my Mac. Everything seemed to be ok. I'd have to get used to the slightly different key commands, though...


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## mc_deli (Jul 29, 2017)

musicalweather said:


> Thanks everyone! I really appreciate all your thoughts about this. I'm still in the process of deciding. Can't shell out for a brand new MBP, but am looking at ones that are a couple of years old, perhaps even used, with these specs: 15" screen, 2.7 GHz quad-core Intel Core i7, 512 GB, 16GB memory. But for about the same price I can get a 15" PC laptop with 32 GB ram, 512 GB SSD, plus an extra 1 TB SATA drive. No thunderbolt connectors, though. The RAM capacity is a concern to me, based on your comments.
> 
> I am a little reluctant to go over to PC, though I use a PC desktop to hold my sample libraries. I'm just so used to the Mac workflow. Don't know how much trouble it would be to send Digital Performer files back and forth between a Mac and PC. I downloaded a demo of DP onto someone else's PC and then opened the same file on my Mac. Everything seemed to be ok. I'd have to get used to the slightly different key commands, though...


If you are looking at "kinda" portable and Mac OS, have you considered the 2012 Mac Mini option (quad, 16GB, SSD) can be had on ebay for around €1-1.5k.


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