# Need help choosing a synth



## redninja (Dec 19, 2022)

Hi,

I'll make it as short as possible. I'm not experienced with Synths much. I'm a preset person and just newly started trying to create my own presets.

I have Serum for some time. While it is nice for some EDM stuff that I experiment with and cuts sharp in the mixes with presets I have, I cannot get satisfying results for a more trailer/soundtrack approach of sound. One of the most bare drawbacks for me is that it does not have a SEQ/ARP. Yes there is some workaround for that but not the most convenient one.

I'd like to create some dark, tense, low-end bass-y pulses/loops for some futuristic, SCI-FI, dystopic themed tracks.

I read that DIVA is one of the best when it comes to low-end if what I understand from this is correct. OTOH I gave Repro-1 a try and did some quick sketch in 15-20 mins(starting with a built-in preset) and I was fairly happy with that even though it needed some tweaks.

My question is,

My budget is low nowadays and it makes a difference for me the extra 30€. Diva is 179 and Repro-1 is 149.
DIVA might be overwhelming for me with the modular options it offers since I'm not that much experienced with synths.
The ease of use of the sequencer is my preference.

So, do you think Repro-1 can accomplish what I'm after to create some low-end-heavy moving, tense, dark loops as a foundation for my tracks or should I push my limits and get DIVA and dive in a much more complex world and try to figure out how it works? Can Repro-1 make me happy for a long time to come?

Thank you all in advance!


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## b_elliott (Dec 19, 2022)

Have you considered u-he Zebra2: 99euro; has arp/sequencer; low end galore; semi-modular?
As a noob I recommend the Z2 intro video by our Pier to get you up and running fast.


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## redninja (Dec 19, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> Have you considered u-he Zebra2: 99euro; has arp/sequencer; low end galore; semi-modular?
> As a noob I recommend the Z2 intro video by our Pier to get you up and running fast.


Hi,

I forgot to mention that I had also downloaded Zebra2 some time ago. While the 99€ tag is muc much more tempting, somehow it seemed(whole routing, interface etc) a bit complex to me and I couldn't figure out much on how to create my own "sound". Maybe it's because the built-in preset that I choose within Repro-1 that made things easier for me.

I might try it again and I'm also interested in the video that you've mentioned. Do you have a link to it?

EDIT : Also, there is a REC/PLAY feature in SEQ of Repro which I find inspiring and interesting to use. Does Z2 have it, too?

EDIT 2 : @Pier Could you please tell me where is the video located that @b_elliott refers to?


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## Pier (Dec 19, 2022)

I'm not super proud of this video but people seem to like it 









Introduction to U-He Zebra 2


00:00:00 Getting ready00:02:30 The main grid00:09:02 The oscillators00:22:57 The effects grid00:25:40 The FM oscillators00:27:37 The comb filters00:38:53 The...




youtube.com


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## SupremeFist (Dec 19, 2022)

You can't go wrong with Repro-1 if you like the sound (plus you get the Repro-5 polysynth with it!). As @b_elliott mentioned, Zebra is a very popular choice (for good reason), but I agree it's intimidating for inexperienced synth users. I love Diva too but it does not have the sequencing you want. Another option, which can also do the kinds of sounds you mention very well, has an excellent seq/arp, and is very user-friendly, is Arturia Pigments, also currently €99.


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## Tusker (Dec 19, 2022)

I agree that Zebra Legacy has all the arps and atmospheres you might need. Based on what you have said, making any sound fit your track might involve some knowledge of ...

- Making bright sounds more mellow or mellow sounds more bright. (filter) 
- Making sounds more tense/painful (frequency modulation, distortion, detuning)
- Making sounds more dark and moody (reverb, delays and modulation effects) etc.

The massive Zebra library has a lot of these techniques baked into the presets. It's a world class sound design tutorial. Still, you might need to tweak a sound to fit a project. As you get comfortable tweaking, you may find that Serum also becomes useful to you for cinematic sound. Best wishes.


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## b_elliott (Dec 19, 2022)

There are apparently 42 Zebra videos on u-he's site. Perhaps, zero in on what matters to you; but, Pier's intro video helps remove some of the overwhelm IMHO. Since it is long at 2hours, take a chapter or two at a time for further ease of orientation.


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## redninja (Dec 19, 2022)

Pier said:


> I'm not super proud of this video but people seem to like it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. A video that will keep me interested before going to sleep (I like watching educational things at that time of the day. Somehow it works =))

I'll be watching this tonight.


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## redninja (Dec 19, 2022)

Tusker said:


> I agree that Zebra Legacy has all the arps and atmospheres you might need. Based on what you have said, making any sound fit your track might involve some knowledge of ...
> 
> - Making bright sounds more mellow or mellow sounds more bright. (filter)
> - Making sounds more tense/painful (frequency modulation, distortion, detuning)
> ...


While I'm not that bad at tweaking (as I did a quick run with Repro-1 trial), I'm not that pro either. I can make sounds mostly fit when needed but the most cumbersome part with Serum is the absence of a SEQ/ARP implementation.

Other than this, I also got some growling, pounding lows in Serum but wasn't satisfied fully. Also wavetables are not my thing. It's more about experience to make subtle things with them I think.
I heard and read several positive things on Repro-1's low end pulsing bass lines and that's why I got interested in it from the get-go.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Dec 19, 2022)

The free Tyrell N6 by u-he is worth a look. Not sure about its presets, and I don't think it has an arp. Maybe combine with an arp in your DAW? U-he has another free synth called Podolski which I think has an arp.









Podolski: Nice and easy


Podolski: Nice and easy



u-he.com












TyrellN6: A compact, sporty synth


TyrellN6: A compact, sporty synth



u-he.com


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## redninja (Dec 19, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> There are apparently 42 Zebra videos on u-he's site. Perhaps, zero in on what matters to you; but, Pier's intro video helps remove some of the overwhelm IMHO. Since it is long at 2hours, take a chapter or two at a time for further ease of orientation.


Thanks for pointing that out. When I scrolled down through the footer, I saw "tutorials section" with Zebra2 filtering choice. I'll also have a look at these and see if I can figure out things for myself. The world of synths somehow always scared me due to its deeper complexities about how you craft a sound out of nothing, but I'll give it a go.


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## redninja (Dec 19, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> You can't go wrong with Repro-1 if you like the sound (plus you get the Repro-5 polysynth with it!). As @b_elliott mentioned, Zebra is a very popular choice (for good reason), but I agree it's intimidating for inexperienced synth users. I love Diva too but it does not have the sequencing you want. Another option, which can also do the kinds of sounds you mention very well, has an excellent seq/arp, and is very user-friendly, is Arturia Pigments, also currently €99.


Thanks for the clarification.

With my limited knowledge I thought Arturia Pigments is similar to Serum which I already had, though I've been eyeing that one, too, since it's on sale now. I'm downloading it atm but too bad that it's only limited 20 mins to demo it. Need to move fast


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## redninja (Dec 19, 2022)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> The free Tyrell N6 by u-he is worth a look. Not sure about its presets, and I don't think it has an arp. Maybe combine with an arp in your DAW? U-he has another free synth called Podolski which I think has an arp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the recommendations. I'll also give these a try and see how they'll work.

EDIT : After checking out both on the website, I see that Tyrell lacks seq as you said and I prefer to get them all in the box. OTOH, while I have Serum it looks like these two are pretty much limited with what they can offer but free is free.


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## b_elliott (Dec 19, 2022)

redninja said:


> Thanks for pointing that out. When I scrolled down through the footer, I saw "tutorials section" with Zebra2 filtering choice. I'll also have a look at these and see if I can figure out things for myself. The world of synths somehow always scared me due to its deeper complexities about how you craft a sound out of nothing, but I'll give it a go.


Here are the Z2 "mini-tutes" I had heard about:





u-he - Learn Zebra2 | A series of mini-tutorials


The communtiy section for u-he. Makers of creative software synthesizers and effects.



u-he.com


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## redninja (Dec 19, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> Here are the Z2 "mini-tutes" I had heard about:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!

Even this below introductory quote from that page tells a lot for inexperienced synth users like me. Workflow and mindset-wise...  



> Keeping it simple​Filling the grid with little red blocks may make the patch seem more interesting, but adding modules without a specific purpose i.e. just because they are available is not such a good idea. Make a habit of using no more modules than you really need, so that…
> 
> 
> your patch is not unnecessarily CPU-hungry
> ...


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## Pier (Dec 19, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> Since it is long at 2hours, take a chapter or two at a time for further ease of orientation.


Yeah... I ramble a lot 😬

Someday I will make some proper Zebra videos.


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## b_elliott (Dec 19, 2022)

Pier said:


> Yeah... I ramble a lot 😬
> 
> Someday I will make some proper Zebra videos.


More a matter of my brain goes to overload quicker than others. The time stamps + chapters you made solved it for me! 
I could listen to a chapter, then duplicate/mimic your actions inside my Zebra, then do my own noodling at my pace.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 19, 2022)

I personally wouldn't recommend jumping into anything like Zebra from the start.

Strongest recommendation for you: I suggest Vital, the free version, because it sounds good and has a nice UI, and it costs nothing unless you want to send the dev some cash. It's very flexible, and can do everything you'd want/need as you learn.

Also, Full Bucket Synths are free. Check out MonoFury. The aforementioned Tyrell N6 is also worth getting to know. And is free. Your DAW probably has one or more subtractive synths you can learn, as well.

I just sold Diva because I never got on with it, and other synths sound better to me. I think the Softube synths sound better (but, of course, aren't flexible). Repro1 I love, but Repro5 I never use - I prefer Hive2. Repro will NOT satisfy all your needs, but you can do a lot of great stuff with it, and learn. Again, if you really are in the mood to spend money.

There's no reason you have to spend money to get an excellent software synth now.

One of the best subtractive "learning synths" that costs money, if you want to spend it, is The Legend (if you're not going the Softube Model 72 route). Look for a second-hand license. Or you can look at synths from TAL Software (who also have a good free one plus free effects).

If you have an iPad, you can get a lot of great synths for cheap and can learn that way, as well.


EDIT: you already have Serum? Then you don't really need another synth. Want? Sure.

You can arppeggiate any synth - just get BlueArp (it's free).


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## proggermusic (Dec 19, 2022)

Based on your criteria, OP, I highly recommend you save up a little more and get Omnisphere. It ticks all of your boxes except for price. It's also an industry standard, so many sounds immediately sound "right" out of the box. It also has the highest rate of immediately useable presets of any soft synth I've ever had (for my taste anyway). Since I bought it years ago, Omnisphere has paid for itself numerous times over.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 19, 2022)

proggermusic said:


> Based on your criteria, OP, I highly recommend you save up a little more and get Omnisphere. It ticks all of your boxes except for price. It's also an industry standard, so many sounds immediately sound "right" out of the box. It also has the highest rate of immediately useable presets of any soft synth I've ever had (for my taste anyway). Since I bought it years ago, Omnisphere has paid for itself numerous times over.


Probably only if they want to stay a presets user. If they want to learn synthesis, I think there's much better to start with (can always circle back to Omnisphere in the future).

As someone not in the industry, I've almost sold it several times as it's not been a good investment overall. Yet?


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## redninja (Dec 20, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I personally wouldn't recommend jumping into anything like Zebra from the start.
> 
> Strongest recommendation for you: I suggest Vital, the free version, because it sounds good and has a nice UI, and it costs nothing unless you want to send the dev some cash. It's very flexible, and can do everything you'd want/need as you learn.
> 
> ...


Actually this was more of an another educational question/thread for me.

I mean similar to my recent reverb thread, when I read reviews on the web regarding synths, most people refer to Repro-1 as being a better choice for the low-end. I'm tempted by this fact. Serum has its own wonders as I have read further, especially with its wavetables(not because I use them properly but according to what others say). That's why I felt the need to ask which synth to get in addition or as a replacement of Serum.

Do you experienced folks say that you can get that deep-low-end and smooth yet pulsating sounds from Serum, too?

I mean since I'm not experienced well enough creating sounds other than just tweaking them, I'm not sure how to approach that debate or which word of advice should I take.

My only apparent problem with Serum is that it does not have SEQ, for which people recommend some workarounds like yours using an external tool to get the job done.

I'll check BlueArp.

I'm trying to reduce the tools/plugins that I use to a minimum in the workflow. That's why I preferred and all in one Synth with a SEQ.

Sound and flexibility are other factors. If you can say Serum can create the vibes of Repro-1 with experienced fingers, I'm all ears and will look for better tutorials to make it work, though not sure with the SEQ part.

Thanks,


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## redninja (Dec 20, 2022)

proggermusic said:


> Based on your criteria, OP, I highly recommend you save up a little more and get Omnisphere. It ticks all of your boxes except for price. It's also an industry standard, so many sounds immediately sound "right" out of the box. It also has the highest rate of immediately useable presets of any soft synth I've ever had (for my taste anyway). Since I bought it years ago, Omnisphere has paid for itself numerous times over.


I'm aware of Omnisphere for some time but yes, it's currently overpriced for me and while I don't have an intention to deep-dive in the world of synths, I might decide to expand my skills in the not so near future depending on my approach and genres/sub-genres I'll go with. So it might be a bit of limiting to get Omnisphere in regards of flexibility to create custom sounds/loops. But I'll always keep that tool in mind since it is regarded one of the best for what it does.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 20, 2022)

redninja said:


> So, do you think Repro-1 can accomplish what I'm after to create some low-end-heavy moving, tense, dark loops as a foundation for my tracks or should I push my limits and get DIVA and dive in a much more complex world and try to figure out how it works? Can Repro-1 make me happy for a long time to come?


Diva, Repro, Zebra: they all are fantastic, just a bit different. It's up to your taste.
I use all of them all the time.


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## Akoustecx (Dec 20, 2022)

You should definitely take a look at Pigments. I don't know of another synth that so effortlessly combines power with ease of use, and the built in tutorials are a really nice touch for those looking to learn.


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## Crowe (Dec 20, 2022)

redninja said:


> Do you experienced folks say that you can get that deep-low-end and smooth yet pulsating sounds from Serum, too?


Yes. Serum is my main synth and it can do ridiculous things that have nothing to do with EDM. It's actually very suitable for (cinematic) Sound Design. The time-stretching algorithm inside the noise oscillator is unreasonably good, for example. The filters and the FM-from parameters are also pure gold.

I don't actually understand where the idea that it wouldn't be able to do that comes from. Considering how harshly it's usually being pigeonholed as an EDM Bass synth you'd think there's no way you _couldn't_ get deep, pulsating low-end from it.

Youtube is full of tutorials on how to achieve this.

The only thing it doesn't really do is sound anywhere near analog. If that's what you want, U-he is probably your best bet. I'm personally favorable towards Plugin Alliance's Knifonium.

EDIT: I also agree with Pigments. I love it. It'll probably end Serum's position as my Bae within the next few months, although I think Serum's Wavetable editor is much better so I'll keep using it for that at least.


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## redninja (Dec 20, 2022)

Akoustecx said:


> You should definitely take a look at Pigments. I don't know of another synth that so effortlessly combines power with ease of use, and the built in tutorials are a really nice touch for those looking to learn.


Last night I downloaded Pigments but unfortunately the trial was limited to 20 mins and it was a really short time window for an amateur like me to get a clear idea if I can make something out of it.

The best parts of Pigments for me at the moment is its price + it has a seq which is a main drawback of Serum for me.

Do you know if it is possible to uninstall and re-install it for another 20 min demo?


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## redninja (Dec 20, 2022)

Crowe said:


> Yes. Serum is my main synth and it can do ridiculous things that have nothing to do with EDM. It's actually very suitable for (cinematic) Sound Design. The time-stretching algorithm inside the noise oscillator is unreasonably good, for example. The filters and the FM-from parameters are also pure gold.
> 
> I don't actually understand where the idea that it wouldn't be able to do that comes from. Considering how harshly it's usually being pigeonholed as an EDM Bass synth you'd think there's no way you _couldn't_ get deep, pulsating low-end from it.
> 
> ...


So, reading your comment on it, can you say that Pigments is definitely a better investment compared to Repro-1 despite that they're apples and oranges?

Apart from Analogue vs Digital fact, can you say it is much easier to use, navigate and create in Pigments rather than Repro-1?

...or let me rephrase it like this, if I have 2 options to consider as a beginner, which one would suit my needs better and would be the most beginner-friendly? Pigments or Repro-1?

Also, since you're an experienced user of Serum, how do you solve SEQ part of the equation the easiest way? _(I looked for BlueArp but... 1) I can't access the official website 2) I have no idea how to route a synth to an external ARP apart from throwing them both on the same MIDI track. Is that it?)_

Thanks,


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## Crowe (Dec 20, 2022)

redninja said:


> So, reading your comment on it, can you say that Pigments is definitely a better investment compared to Repro-1 despite that they're apples and oranges?


No.



redninja said:


> Apart from Analogue vs Digital fact, can you say it is much easier to use, navigate and create in Pigments rather than Repro-1?


If you have absolutely no experience with analog synthesizers, Pigments has a lot of visual feedback that helps but all synthesizers require you to learn them. Repro is pretty one-to-one with older Sequential synths.



redninja said:


> ...or let me rephrase it like this, if I have 2 options to consider as a beginner, which one would suit my needs better and would be the most beginner-friendly? Pigments or Repro-1?


I think Pigments is more beginner friendly. Probably. Maybe. Thing is... Serum is also very beginner friendly and should already be able to do most of what you want. A course in synthesis or a set of in-depth tutorials may actually better suit your needs than a new Synth.



redninja said:


> Also, since you're an experienced user of Serum, how do you solve SEQ part of the equation the easiest way? _(I looked for BlueArp but... 1) I can't access the official website 2) I have no idea how to route a synth to an external ARP apart from throwing them both on the same MIDI track. Is that it?)_


https://omg-instruments.com/wp/?page_id=46

My answer is also BlueArp. Or Kirnu Cream. Or Xfer Cthulu. Internal sequencers on software synths are... a bit pointless (edit: Pigments' sequencer actually being an exception here but we should ignore that really).

Depending on your daw, you use the sequencer as an instrument and route midi out into the midi in of your instrument.

Everything has a learning curve. Don't give up because you "don't get it". Take a step back and try a new approach. A different perspective. Learn how to work your midi ins and outs. Get that external sequencer. Don't throw out Serum because what you want to do doesn't come easy. Don't take the road of least resistance. That's not the Ninja Turtle way.

Also just search on Youtube for 'midi routing' 'Serum cinematic' 'Serum pulsing' etc. You don't even need a sequencer, you have 4 ridiculously versatile LFO's. (hint, 'Serum LFO Sequence')


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 20, 2022)

Vital is free and also has a good UI for learning. While not as fully featured as Pigments, I think Vital sounds better (to my ears), which is why I sold Pigments 3 and kept Vital. I’d start there instead of spending more money. Same with adding a free arp to any synth.

But most of all I’d start my mastering the high-end synth already purchased: Serum.


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## TheUnfinished (Dec 20, 2022)

I think in terms of what you're looking to achieve and having something that would compliment Serum well, I'd go with RePro.

The low end is very good. Plus, it's pretty simple to programme and has a very flexible sequencer.
But, as others have said, you have a very powerful synth in Serum already and you should learn a bit more about using it, and not be intimidated by its lack of sequencer.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 20, 2022)

Repro is now $75 on NI. These are crazy prices.








u-he offer 2022


Save on legendary synths and effects from u-he with best-ever deals on the u-he Collection 2, the new Zebra Legacy, plus 50% off individual plug-ins.




www.native-instruments.com


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## Voider (Dec 20, 2022)

You can do what you want to do with (almost) any synth, it's really just a matter of knowing how.
That being said, there is a difference in the overall flavour / raw oscillators between synths. Serum I personally (back then) found a bit metallic and "thin". I love Pigments, it's requires a bit of work to make it sound powerful on the low end, but in exchange it shines at colorful sounds right away. Dune 3 has very powerful and thick oscillators right from the start.

The most important thing when you choose a synth is really just that you like the UI and workflow, because that's how you'll spend your time with it. It doesn't do anything for you if you've purchased a synth based on recommendations that doesn't fit your workflow, so I'd recommend just to demo them and then go with what feels best without overthinking the decision.

Dune 3 and Pigments are both pretty future-proof in terms of features, while Pigments is a bit ahead.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 20, 2022)

Voider said:


> You can do what you want to do with (almost) any synth, it's really just a matter of knowing how.
> That being said, there is a difference in the overall flavour / raw oscillators between synths. Serum I personally (back then) found a bit metallic and "thin". I love Pigments, it's requires a bit of work to make it sound powerful on the low end, but in exchange it shines at colorful sounds right away. Dune 3 has very powerful and thick oscillators right from the start.
> 
> The most important thing when you choose a synth is really just that you like the UI and workflow, because that's how you'll spend your time with it. It doesn't do anything for you if you've purchased a synth based on recommendations that doesn't fit your workflow, so I'd recommend just to demo them and then go with what feels best without overthinking the decision.
> ...


... I choose a synth first based on sound. Then UX. Then features.

This is why I chose Hive over Dune, Serum, and the rest: the oscillators without effects sounded the best to my ears (and the UX is actually pretty easy to learn after the initial "wtf?"). Wish it was $75 like it is now! But I've more than gotten my money's worth. Think I paid around $100 for it. Dune was a close second.

I urge people to first focus on what sounds best to them, taking the time to compare - unless it immediately "speaks" to you, of course!


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## Voider (Dec 20, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I urge people to first focus on what sounds best to them, taking the time to compare - unless it immediately "speaks" to you, of course!


But you can shape the sound the way you want.. the differences are pretty minor, and most of them only apply to the instant gratification. If I start with Pigments and find the oscillators don't sound thick enough right away, I can utilize techniques to achieve that. And if I vice versa try out Dune and figure out I want the oscillators to be less dominant and more colorful, I can also do that. We can carve out the cons of each synth until a pretty decent degree. (_Except you use a synth that has very few features and parts so your sound shaping capabilities are limited_)

And since this process of creating sound is how we spend our time with a synth, I'd recommend to go with the UI / workflow that feels best, because if that isn't fun to you and doesn't feel inspiring, then the best sound will probably not help if you don't enjoy using the synth on the long run. At least that's my experience.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 20, 2022)

Voider said:


> But you can shape the sound the way you want.. the differences are pretty minor, and most of them only apply to the instant gratification. If I start with Pigments and find the oscillators don't sound thick enough right away, I can utilize techniques to achieve that. And if I vice versa try out Dune and figure out I want the oscillators to be less dominant and more colorful, I can also do that. We can carve out the cons of each synth until a pretty decent degree. (_Except you use a synth that has very few features and parts so your sound shaping capabilities are limited_)
> 
> And since this process of creating sound is how we spend our time with a synth, I'd recommend to go with the UI / workflow that feels best, because if that isn't fun to you and doesn't feel inspiring, then the best sound will probably not help if you don't enjoy using the synth on the long run. At least that's my experience.


To me, the core sound of a synth matters most is all because that's what I'm using it for: sound. Everyone is different.

Sure, you can eq the crap out of something, but if that something isn't the best to your ears, what's the point of using it?

I say this as a professional UX person, who very much values workflow. Anyway, off-topic for another thread.


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## 3DC (Dec 20, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Repro is now $75 on NI. These are crazy prices.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry for totally ignorant question: Will these U-HE synths work without NI NKS if buy them at NI shop? What's the catch?


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## Akoustecx (Dec 20, 2022)

@redninja I don't know if you've made a decision yet, but if you were to head over to Arturia and pick up the just this moment released MS-20 filter, currently free until 02/01/23, there is a reasonable chance it will trigger the €69 price for Pigments. I'm not guaranteeing it, but it would be in line with other freebies having qualified.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 20, 2022)

3DC said:


> Sorry for totally ignorant question: Will these U-HE synths work without NI NKS if buy them at NI shop? What's the catch?


No catch. They just occassionally sell U-he stuff. This is typically the best sale you’ll see for some time. So jump.


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## Voider (Dec 20, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> To me, the core sound of a synth matters most is all because that's what I'm using it for: sound. Everyone is different.


Sure, but *you* do shape the sound.. I'm not saying pick a synth that sounds bad to you and stick with a bad sound, I say you can shape it so that it pleases your ears, even if the instant presets didn't amaze you. (Again, talking about fully fledged synths that allow deep design. If you hand me an analog synth for $400 with very few features I might end up not enjoying the sound too much too).



vitocorleone123 said:


> Sure, you can eq the crap out of something, but if that something isn't the best to your ears, what's the point of using it?


I'd not change the sound with the EQ, I'd utilize other techniques that will allow a way more fine control over the thickness, color, texture and everything one desires. But I am not in control over the UI / workflow experience.. see my point?

Maybe if you're someone who doesn't do much sounddesign, but you rather enjoy jamming with presets, then I agree that the sound matters more as the priorities are different. (_Or the number of avaiable soundsets for that synth that sound good to you ears and which you want to use_).

Anyways, I didn't mean to say your way of choosing your synth "isn't the right one", I'm just elaborating on my point since you quoted me on it  Of course everyone is different, as you said.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 20, 2022)

Voider said:


> Sure, but *you* do shape the sound.. I'm not saying pick a synth that sounds bad to you, I say you're in control over how it will sound.
> 
> 
> I'd not change the sound with the EQ, I'd utilize other techniques that will allow a way more fine control over the thickness, color, texture and everything one desires. There's no synth that I can't make sound good, because I am control. But I am not in control over the UI / workflow experience.. see my point?
> ...


Nothing taken personally! All good. 

I do enjoy sound design, rarely use presets except to learn a new synth, and I prefer to start with sources that sound the best to me from, well, the start. It's like being able to add enough salt to make anything taste good enough, but I'd rather start with the finest, freshest ingredients possible and use less salt when making my meal.

The sound is the main reason I bought an OB-6, followed by the workflow (certainly not the pricing! ha). I was looking at hardware synths based on that order of things. Sound I couldn't get in software with a simple workflow. Same applies to software synths I buy. But that's me.

Back to the topic at hand:
If the OP was considering Repro, NOW is absolutely the time to get it. Or at least demo it and then maybe get it.


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## proggermusic (Dec 20, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Probably only if they want to stay a presets user. If they want to learn synthesis, I think there's much better to start with (can always circle back to Omnisphere in the future).
> 
> As someone not in the industry, I've almost sold it several times as it's not been a good investment overall. Yet?


Good points, although I do find Omnisphere pretty easy and intuitive to program. In most of my work I'll take patches that started as presets that I tweaked over time, but there are a few bespoke sounds I've made from scratch that I'm pretty happy with, and I'm not mainly a synthesist or sound designer. I did, however, learn what I know about subtractive synthesis via Logic's ES1, ES2, and my trusty old MicroKorg, so I don't have the perspective of learning that craft in Omnisphere itself. Probably would be a little overwhelming!

I can't even begin to describe how useful it's been for me in composing/producing work and my own creative projects, though. It's one of my very favorite instruments, hardware or software. (I own way too many of both...)


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## redninja (Dec 20, 2022)

Just in... The e-mail that made me smile from NI. 
Half the prices of u-he Synths. =))
Something told me not to move so fast last night and I'm glad that I did so.


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## redninja (Dec 20, 2022)

@Crowe , @Voider , @vitocorleone123 

From my perspective (as a total noob about synths) UX and UI is more important since,

1) I haven't trained my ears and skills to evaluate a Synth's quality of sound,
2) I'm more of a WYSIWYG person(which is a bit contradiction in the audio world but at least as a starting point) and Serum along with Pigments are a bit over my head with all their routing/modular options compared to Repro. OTOH Pigments is more straightforward about having its matrix(?) on the same page/panel where Serum has it on a separate panel.

OTOH, I definitely need an overall understanding and education on Synths since some if not all the modulation options are quite common between all these different synths. I was just a preset guy until now but seriously started to think about getting deeper in the world of synths after reading replies on this thread.

I actually should be more clear about my intentions and expectations when opening such threads. It was the same case with reverb thread of mine. I'm expecting to get lots of justification before even playing around enough with the tools on my own (which, I did so with reverbs that I'm now much more confident). 

I just wanted to hear how other experienced people judge a synth and if it would really contribute to my goals in the short-mid term but apart from this, my real pain especially with synths is UI and all that seemingly complex structure and ability to route everything to everything. =) In this manner Repro seemed easier to start with apart from its sound which I cannot clearly judge for apparent reasons.

Now other considerations arose thanks to NI's sale that just drooped in. Decisions decisions...


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 20, 2022)

redninja said:


> @Crowe , @Voider , @vitocorleone123
> 
> From my perspective (as a total noob about synths) UX and UI is more important since,
> 
> ...


Just keep in mind that your ears already know what sounds good to you. That may change over time, but it's already "in effect".

How do I compare the raw sound of oscillators? It's easy. Turn off everything going on but the oscillators and listen. Open and close the filter(s). Do this for several synths at once. See which ones sound the best to you. Done.

Have you tried MonoFury (free)? Or maybe Korg Polysix which is related but a paid product (if on sale only - not worth more than $50)? Or you can just grab Repro and go to town with 2 fantastic synths: a mono and a poly. Excellent learning tools that are useful beyond just learning - else the Prophet 5 wouldn't now be on Rev4 in hardware and selling for thousands of dollars!








I still believe that choosing an instrument that sounds best is most important. Musicians don't choose violins or pianos based first and foremost on features, but on sound. Synthesizers are no different (to me). UX does matter, of course, and I've earned plenty of money from working on UX for my entire career.


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## Voider (Dec 20, 2022)

redninja said:


> OTOH, I definitely need an overall understanding and education on Synths since some if not all the modulation options are quite common between all these different synths. I was just a preset guy until now but seriously started to think about getting deeper in the world of synths after reading replies on this thread.


What's great about Pigments in that regard is how colord-coded everything is, and also the visual real-time representation.

That means if you apply an LFO to the filter, you can instantly tell by the yellow circle around the knob that you modulate, that it's being modulated by one of your LFOs - because envelopes are orange, custom envelopes are green, randomziers are purple.. and so on. The second thing is that envelopes (even those for the filters) do then move in real time, which helps to understand what's happening under the hood.

Even occasional volume or filter envelopes themselves are animated, so you can exactly see the little dot wandering on its journey throughout the envelope shape, when it rises, when it falls, how fast it falls and all of that. Of course you could just imagine that if this feature is not present, but it's a nice on-top, especially as beginner who might sometimes wonder what's going on.

And the routing system is really straight forward, you can just drag & drop stuff, or click on whatever you want to use (again the LFO as example) and then draw the little modulation circle around any possible destination. That little circle then becomes highlighted only in the range you've chosen, which means you can even visually see how much of that knob is being modulated, and how fast, where it starts, where it ends..

Of course you should never forget to use your ears first and only use the visual indicators as assistance, but for learning purposes or easily keeping track of everything, that's great.


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## sundrowned (Dec 20, 2022)

redninja said:


> OTOH, I definitely need an overall understanding and education on Synths since some if not all the modulation options are quite common between all these different synths.


It really doesn't take that long to know how all the basic things in a synth work and how they interact together. If you put your mind to it you'll have it covered in 1-2 weeks, possibly even quicker if you have the time. And then you'll be much better able to evaluate synths.


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## Pier (Dec 20, 2022)

redninja said:


> Sound and flexibility are other factors. If you can say Serum can create the vibes of Repro-1 with experienced fingers, I'm all ears and will look for better tutorials to make it work


What about Diva?


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## redninja (Dec 20, 2022)

Voider said:


> What's great about Pigments in that regard is how colord-coded everything is, and also the visual real-time representation.


Yep, last night when I did a test run with Pigments it caught my eye, too. That is a plus for me compared to Serum when trying to find my way through different modules. I'm familiar with routing from Serum (drag and drop controls/knobs etc). About the routing thing, the actual problem for me and probably most beginners of synths out there is how each and every parameter/knob affects the overall sound and general concepts behind these... and this is pure practice and memorizing...

I'll start watching more tutorials as soon as I decide upon my go-to synth considering the current sale + improving on the Serum's end.


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## redninja (Dec 20, 2022)

sundrowned said:


> It really doesn't take that long to know how all the basic things in a synth work and how they interact together. If you put your mind to it you'll have it covered in 1-2 weeks, possibly even quicker if you have the time. And then you'll be much better able to evaluate synths.


Thanks, that's encouraging.

The thing that makes things difficult from a beginner's perspective is that I usually use the deduction instead of induction when it comes to learning things alas when you open a web page about introducing to synths, experts usually start from the traditional concepts like frequency, circuits(for hardware guys I think) which... in a way bores and scares me. Sure, they're fundamentals and should be known if some wants to advance further but it's just not the type of learning path that goes well with me.  

Last night I was so exhausted that I couldn't watch @Pier 's tutorial but I'll definitely do it tonight.


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## Pier (Dec 20, 2022)

redninja said:


> The thing that makes things difficult from a beginner's perspective is that I usually use the deduction instead of induction when it comes to learning things alas when you open a web page about introducing to synths, experts usually start from the traditional concepts like frequency, circuits(for hardware guys I think) which... in a way bores and scares me. Sure, they're fundamentals and should be known if some wants to advance further but it's just not the type of learning path that goes well with me.


I totally agree.

For years I was very frustrated with synth tutorials and courses because they are either a) an explanation of every module so pretty much reading the manual or b) step by step recipes without really explaining why something works.

For years I've been thinking how to make a synth course that would solve those pitfalls. The idea I've been thinking for my Zebra 3 course is spending most of the time actually going over presets and explaining the principles which is really the mental tools I use when doing sound design.


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## dozicusmaximus (Dec 20, 2022)

Pigments has built in training/tutorials in the synth itself. Pretty helpful for beginners.
Top right settings cog, click on it, then choose Tutorials.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 20, 2022)

Side note: the easiest way to learn subtractive synthesis is with hardware. Price is a bit higher, but it’s worth it if you’re serious (and can afford it). I used softsynths like u-he Repro for many years but it wasn’t until I got hardware that it “clicked” for me.

My first hardware synth was a Roland SE-02. Great learning tool, but... I'd actually recommend a simple subtractive polysynth instead because it's more useful long-term (a good poly can also be a good mono, but a mono can never be a good poly). I still have and love my SE-02, but it was my OB-6 desktop that REALLY connected the dots for me.


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## MLaudio (Dec 20, 2022)

DS Thorn is one I’d recommend for ethereal type drones / pads. The harmonic filter adds unique texture quickly and I find it to be one of the easiest and fastest synths to get good sounds out of. You can often pick it up from PA for $19. It’s a REALLY good synth for someone newer to sound design. It can get quite deep as well for those more advanced.

Other than that, I’d also suggest Dune 3 or Rapid for what you are after.


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## oeholmen (Dec 21, 2022)

redninja said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'll make it as short as possible. I'm not experienced with Synths much. I'm a preset person and just newly started trying to create my own presets.
> 
> ...


If you are still looking, you can get the uhe synths at a discount here https://www.izotope.com/en/shop/pai...5M7ph4E_KWaFpAz2PYWvBwThIbYBgN_Xgzb2Q#jolly50


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 21, 2022)

If you get Repro (which everyone should have), then, funds permitting, also get the Unfinished soundsets that are also on sale if you want to better learn how to use it "cinematically". Those are great presets.


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## redninja (Dec 21, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> If you get Repro (which everyone should have), then, funds permitting, also get the Unfinished soundsets that are also on sale if you want to better learn how to use it "cinematically". Those are great presets.


Yep I was eyeing for that one, too. You got me.


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## redninja (Dec 21, 2022)

BTW,
A little update. Since the current sale prices are so inviting, I decided to go with Repro-1 and purchased it. I've just finished some basic tutorials and started to make my own bass lines/seq today. 

@vitocorleone123 I'm pretty sure that package will also contribute to my understanding of Repro-1 and some fundamental functions of synths in a better way. Atm I'm watching @Pier 's tutorial on Zebra 2.

Once I'm comfortable enough with Repro-1, I'll probably buy either Pigments or Zebra as my next purchase or better first will develop my skills further on Serum and then do so... which... probably will turn into another addiction similar to that infamous "string library" quest. 

Once again, thank you all for sharing your thoughts on the topic.
I'll have other questions later once I start to advance further in the world of synths.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 21, 2022)

redninja said:


> BTW,
> A little update. Since the current sale prices are so inviting, I decided to go with Repro-1 and purchased it. I've just finished some basic tutorials and started to make my own bass lines/seq today.
> 
> @vitocorleone123 I'm pretty sure that package will also contribute to my understanding of Repro-1 and some fundamental functions of synths in a better way. Atm I'm watching @Pier 's tutorial on Zebra 2.
> ...


For another 36 GBP (or less if you don't get the bundle) on sale, you can get 625 Repro presets from The Unfinished, which are top notch and *highly* recommended for learning both Repro1 and Repro5. The sounds that come with the synths are very... uh... "classic" and these from The Unfinished will help you learn use them cinematically.

https://www.theunfinished.co.uk/shop/repro-bundle/

I use presets to learn synths because they show a lot of what can be done that isn't obvious at first.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 21, 2022)

redninja said:


> BTW,
> A little update. Since the current sale prices are so inviting, I decided to go with Repro-1 and purchased it. I've just finished some basic tutorials and started to make my own bass lines/seq today.
> 
> @vitocorleone123 I'm pretty sure that package will also contribute to my understanding of Repro-1 and some fundamental functions of synths in a better way. Atm I'm watching @Pier 's tutorial on Zebra 2.
> ...


Great choice, Repro is still in the absolute top tier of soft synths. +1 on the excellent Unfinished presets to get you started exploring its full range.


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## Tekkera (Dec 22, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> Great choice, Repro is still in the absolute top tier of soft synths. +1 on the excellent Unfinished presets to get you started exploring its full range.


It's taking me so much willpower to not buy repro right now


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## redninja (Dec 22, 2022)

Tekkera said:


> It's taking me so much willpower to not buy repro right now


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## Tekkera (Dec 22, 2022)

redninja said:


>







The deed is done.  I can never pass up a u-he discount it seems


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