# Reverb ER and Tail for different sample libraries



## jaywave (Mar 29, 2013)

Hi guys

i know this topic has been about a while and that there are numerous threads with different opinions, but thats why im here. I think i have overloaded myself with the various ways people handle the reverb of ERs and Tails and what suits various libraries.
Myself and my clients are happy with the sound i get but i am always looking for a step up in my 'Sonics' 

So...

I use LASS (lite) for strings, a few VSLs for some woods and EW Platinum and storm drum for the rest. Also Cubase 6.5 Reverence for reverbs (sometimes the Sonnox Oxford rvb which had great ER parameters)

Ive seen SVKs post on the VI forum on how he creates 6 Rvb sends (3 ERs and 3 tails) but i assume this was for his VSL instruments which are completely dry and not for Libraries which have the stage, surround mics ect included.

My question is: How do you guys use separte ER and tails (if at all) with libraries with multiple mics (e.g. East West).

Ive read its not best to use the ER send on mics with Stage, surround or ambience positions, but after some playing about i didn't like the sound. Most likely because i was doing it wrong :roll: 

Ive seen methods where a separate rvb such as spaces is placed on the groups (strings, brass etc) and that the pre-delay and wetness is only adjusted to "put them in their place". Plus these groups had the various mic postitions all on the same channel.

thanks in advance


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## Mahlon (Mar 29, 2013)

I don't know if what I'm doing is standard, but I think partly so. I've got the instrument channels in Cubase set up with auxilliary sends to a Group channel with an insert of Spaces Reverb on it. There's one group channel for each section, so then there's one reverb for Strings, one for brass, one for percussion, one for woodies.

These Spaces reverbs are all room emulations -- like my favorite, EW studios 1.8 (can't remember the real name of it). But I use some others, too. Then the output of each of the these group channels goes to a master channel whith a reverb insert on it. This reverb is VSL Vienna Suite hall emulation and it is a tail only. I've turned off the early reflections so I'm only left with an algorhythmic tail. I experiment with replacing the Vienna Suite reverb with the Hamburg Cathedral from Spaces. That one is just beautfiul for a tail. But honestly, I can't hear much difference between reverbs when it gets to that quality level. They both sound great. Partly that's just because I don't know what I'm doing, I'm not critically aware; partly it is my monitors and listening environment. 

I also still put some 'wet' libraries through the early reflection (i.e. room) treatment if I want them to sit back a little more or if they seem to need it. I like hearing everything as if it's playing in the same studio recording space, recorded all together. That helps me with the tweaking. Then add some tail reverb to just make it larger.

Please don't listen to me as any kind of authority. Far far from it. Just letting you know what I'm doing now, and it seems pleasant enough.

Best,
Mahlon


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Mar 29, 2013)

I am working on my first real space IR library and am very curious how "real" it will sound with dry samples.
Mixing is about how it sounds, not about being "correct" with ERs and tails.


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## nickhmusic (Mar 29, 2013)

Here's what I do.

Peter's Bricasti IRs are absolutely stellar. 

Lexicon PCM is my favourite reverb, also use VSS3 from Powercore, and sometimes Sonnox. For now, it's all PCM.

I set up one FX channel per section, and call it 'Stage Strings' 'Stage Woods' Stage Brass' etc. and on each of these is a REVerence IR plugin.

I use a LASS IR oddly enough on the Stage Woodwinds, and the Scoring Stage preset from Peter's IR library on nearly everything else.

For tail reverb, and general wash, I use the PCM Native Random Hall and set up 2 FX Channels with one on each, exactly the same preset. One is called Lexi Tail High and One is called Lexi Tail Low. These have an EQ on them, the High one is massively Lo-Cut and the Low one is massively Hi-Cut. This allows me to control how much Low/High end of each instrument to send to the reverb. 

For example, I won't send quite so much Tuba to the Lexi Tail Low - as it'll just sound boomy, mushy and well...crap. 

So, in summary - send a bit of the instrument to put in on the stage as it were. Then adjust the Low/High Lexi tail to taste,

until it sounds like this:

/\~O


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## jaywave (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanks for the replies guys. I appreciate your thoughts.

I agree Peter. There is no "correct" way. each to their own etc  Also, I 've been using the IRs available at samplicity...and thankyou!. Beautiful results.

Nick, Funnily enough i started using the scoring stage IR yesterday. It is so good!! I have been considering getting QL Spaces for a while but i cant justify it as ive been real happy with Reverence and Peters IRs. Can i ask where you got the LASS IR?


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## nickhmusic (Mar 29, 2013)

Audiobro provided a set of IRs with LA Scoring Strings, they are also very good


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## Malo (Mar 30, 2013)

[quote="nickhmusic @ Fri Mar 29, 2013 20:22"
For tail reverb, and general wash, I use the PCM Native Random Hall and set up 2 FX Channels with one on each, exactly the same preset. One is called Lexi Tail High and One is called Lexi Tail Low. These have an EQ on them, the High one is massively Lo-Cut and the Low one is massively Hi-Cut. This allows me to control how much Low/High end of each instrument to send to the reverb. 

For example, I won't send quite so much Tuba to the Lexi Tail Low - as it'll just sound boomy, mushy and well...crap.  [/quote]

That's a brilliant tip, Nick! Thank you very much! These types of advice is what makes this forum so valuable. Cheers!


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## nickhmusic (Mar 30, 2013)

You're welcome 

Having said that, with Cinebrass, Project Sam Brass and Spitfire Percussion, I'm only using the PCM for a small amount of additional tail as those libraries are already set.


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## Mahlon (Apr 1, 2013)

So Nick, if I'm understanding you correctly, on your tail reverbs you're sending Tuba to _both_ reverbs but in different amounts? Or do you just send Tuba to the lowcut only, adjusting the send level?

Thanks,
Mahlon


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## nickhmusic (Apr 1, 2013)

Hi Mahlon,

Yeah, Send 1 sending a little bit to Tail Low, Send 2 sending more to Tail High, adjusted for the piece/mix. 

I'll try to post some screenshots if I can to demonstrate.


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## synergy543 (Apr 1, 2013)

nickhmusic @ Fri Mar 29 said:


> For tail reverb, and general wash, I use the PCM Native Random Hall and set up 2 FX Channels with one on each, exactly the same preset. One is called Lexi Tail High and One is called Lexi Tail Low. These have an EQ on them, the High one is massively Lo-Cut and the Low one is massively Hi-Cut. This allows me to control how much Low/High end of each instrument to send to the reverb.
> 
> For example, I won't send quite so much Tuba to the Lexi Tail Low - as it'll just sound boomy, mushy and well...crap.
> 
> ...



That's a very clever idea. Thank you for sharing.

How do you handle ERs for dry libraries? Do you process the ER and tail separate or do you process the ERs through the reverb tail as well?


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## nickhmusic (Apr 1, 2013)

for the dry libraries I use send to REVerence using Send 1 and to the scoring stage preset from Samplicity's IR Bricasti IRs. Then send 2 and 3 are going to the Hi/Lo Lexicons.

Is that what you were asking?


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## synergy543 (Apr 1, 2013)

Yup, thanks.


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## nickhmusic (Apr 1, 2013)

find this an excellent way of cluttering up the low midrange, whilst still allowing a relatively long tail (2.3-2.6s)


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## nickhmusic (Apr 2, 2013)

Here is an example of sends routing for a dry library like VSL, in this case, Flute 1.


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## nickhmusic (Apr 2, 2013)

the IR for "Stage Woodwinds"


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## nickhmusic (Apr 2, 2013)

and finally the 2 Lexi tails, with their EQs


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## Mahlon (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the pics. Makes it clear. I'm interesed to try this now. o-[][]-o 

Mahlon


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