# New Mac Studio RAM 32Gb vs 64Gb



## Drhoust87 (Nov 19, 2022)

Hey guys, apologies if this kind of question is getting stale
Just need some help deciding between the Mac Studio 32Gb vs 64GB Ram. 
I am already so tight on budget I cant really afford the extra 32GB of RAM - so would rather save there - but I want to have a system that lasts me 5-10 years so if its worth it maybe I can hustle it!
I dont use heavy templates, and dont compose big orchestral music - but im also open to the fact that might change in the future - but for the most part - 48GB Ram in mac mini has been doing me okay. 
Looking for real world use - has the 64 GB M1 Pro been worth it for you?
How has the 32 GB been rocking? are you missing the extra RAM>
Thanks in advance 🙏🏼


----------



## cuttime (Nov 19, 2022)

64 G Mac Studio Max here. Very satisfied, but I come close to using most of the RAM. I personally feel the Ultra is overkill for DAW work. Ten cores is fine for me, I got by on four for many years. When you say M1 Pro, I assume you mean Ultra? I'd save by getting the Max and getting as much RAM as you can afford. There's a lot of marketing speak about "Unified Memory", but my experience is that nothing is magical about the M1 RAM. YMMV.


----------



## Minko (Nov 19, 2022)

You can't upgrade RAM later on these machines. But you can do an extra external HD / SSD or a TB4 chassis with M2 PCI card. 

So buy in this case I would say, as much computer (with the most ram) your budget can handle.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 19, 2022)

See whether you can find a refurbished Mac on the Apple Store. If you don't see the config you want, use the chat window. They may be able to sell you one with the exact config. (That's what I did, and it saved 10%.)

https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac/mac-studio?afid=p239|321564&cid=aos-us-aff-ir

Anyway, RAM is a subjective call, but for me it's definitely worth it. The first 10GB of RAM are taken up with things I always have open before even launching a DAW.

128GB would be a waste for me, but 64GB is important. Right now there's 28GB free on my machine, and I don't have Logic open. But I do have Affinity Photo going with one picture, plus the normal startup things - browser, email, text, word processor, audio interface software, etc.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 19, 2022)

By the way - no offense, but in my opinion the conventional "buy as much bla bla as you can afford" line made some sense until about 15 years ago.

You're not going to future-proof a computer by spending more money than you need to. My advice to myself: buy a machine that does what you need it to do today.

The 2-1/2 year cycle we were used to until early this century is over, because the hardware reached a plateau that made it usable for many years. Now we're in the early stages of a transition with machine learning taking on an increasing role, so all bets are off.

When you run into the limitations of your current machine, you sell it and buy the next one. Hopefully that'll be in a few years, but if not then hopefully we'll be rich when it's time to upgrade again.


----------



## method1 (Nov 19, 2022)

I wanted 64gb but couldn't get one due to availability at the time of upgrade, no issues with the 32gb max so far, composing is my day job but I don't do heavy orchestral stuff.
Doing 1 cue per project file has basically been no problem.
There have been a couple instances where I have rendered stuff to free up some resources. 

You mentioned not having a heavy template so you should be fine, actually what's turned out to be more important for me is 1TB ssd instead of the stock 512.


----------



## benwiggy (Nov 20, 2022)

cuttime said:


> I come close to using most of the RAM


MacOS will try to use as much RAM as it can, and will usually use all of it, however much you have. After a few hours of uptime, "Memory Used" + "Cached Files" will be equal to your RAM. 

I have 32Gb RAM in my M1 Pro MBP, and memory pressure is always low.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 20, 2022)

benwiggy said:


> MacOS will try to use as much RAM as it can, and will usually use all of it, however much you have. After a few hours of uptime, "Memory Used" + "Cached Files" will be equal to your RAM.
> 
> I have 32Gb RAM in my M1 Pro MBP, and memory pressure is always low.



I've never seen that behavior with 64GB installed, in either my previous or current machines.

Maybe it does that but only to a point?

I do know that macOS doesn't use the same amount of RAM for the same things twice in a row, but it's within a range.


----------



## benwiggy (Nov 20, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I've never seen that behavior with 64GB installed, in either my previous or current machines.


Well, if you're not actually using 64Gb, then that would suggest you've paid for too much! 🤣


----------



## gives19 (Nov 20, 2022)

I all depends on what you are doing in your room. For me I had the same Mac Pro Trash Can for almost 10 years and it was pretty solid for me. The only time I had issues were when I started working with Dolby ATMOS and picture. That sort of said I needed to move up along with the fact that as of Venutura release, my 2013 Mac Pro was not supported like other Macs. So that was that. I grabbed a fully loaded Mac Studio ULTRA 128BG of Ram with 4TB of internal storage. Maybe some people only need a lot less, but with what I have going her it made total sense and a lot of colleagues in my field of re-recording mixing and scoring are doing the same. A lot of dub stages are using them also and replacing their older Mac Pros I hear. The only thing you miss is the cards, but they are faster machines and more efficient. It's a toolbox and so far it's been great for me. NO issues at all. Just got it install just a couple of weeks ago. Running Monterey for now as I am not sure about the compatibility with DADMAN Software yet. I'm sure the extra ram debate is maybe down the road not going to be that much of an over expense. I'd rather have it than not, even with the fast Processor. 20CPU with 60 Core GPU which is great for re-renders etc.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 20, 2022)

benwiggy said:


> Well, if you're not actually using 64Gb, then that would suggest you've paid for too much! 🤣



Taking kidding seriously, I think you may be missing a few points here.

- The goal is not to run out of memory so that the machine isn't forced to use virtual memory.

- Current Macs jump from 32GB to 64GB (although I think some of the laptops take 24GB). So it's one or the other.

- I personally happen to use more than 32GB every day. My big Logic template is about 48GB above the 10GB of standard stuff I always have loaded (browser, bla bla bla). And Affinity Photo uses a whole lot of RAM when you have multiple pictures open (as I do almost every time I use it).

I jump from one activity to the next all day long and don't want the inconvenience of having to quit programs to save memory.

- What you wrote about macOS using all the RAM you have installed, no matter how much... as I said, I've never seen that happen.


----------



## benwiggy (Nov 21, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I jump from one activity to the next all day long and don't want the inconvenience of having to quit programs to save memory.


You shouldn't have to, even with less RAM. Memory management is pretty complex, and not just "a jug filling with water". The concept of 'running out of memory' doesn't really happen: there's virtual memory addressing for starters; and Memory compression obscures the additive effect. I bet you'll have _some_ swap even if you never use all your memory. Swapping is an essential part of the process, and not a problem in itself, but only when you are waiting for something that was swapped out. 

Certainly, for 8, 16, and 32 Gb, macOS will fill all the RAM, regardless of usage, and you often see people posting "how can I stop the OS from using all the RAM; I need some free space for my apps." 🤣


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 21, 2022)

Ergo Apple is stealing people's money by offering RAM as an option?



benwiggy said:


> there's virtual memory addressing for starters


I don't want it you can have it it's no good for me


----------



## Tronam (Nov 21, 2022)

As an M1 Ultra early adopter I’ve been very pleased so far, but if being honest with myself I’m not using anywhere close to its full potential. I could’ve easily gotten by perfectly fine with the M1 Max and 32GB of memory. The 64GB has definitely eliminated any swapping to virtual memory though, so if you’re allergic to that it should put your mind at ease.

In all my 30 years with personal computers I’ve never had this much headroom overkill before; I always had to be thoughtful about my workflow to avoid audio playback issues or Adobe suite slowdowns with my imaging projects. It makes me a little sad in a weird way. Either modern computers have finally eclipsed the demands of my content creation or I’ve stopped growing as an artist. Maybe it’s both. 😂


----------



## Drhoust87 (Nov 21, 2022)

cuttime said:


> 64 G Mac Studio Max here. Very satisfied, but I come close to using most of the RAM. I personally feel the Ultra is overkill for DAW work. Ten cores is fine for me, I got by on four for many years. When you say M1 Pro, I assume you mean Ultra? I'd save by getting the Max and getting as much RAM as you can afford. There's a lot of marketing speak about "Unified Memory", but my experience is that nothing is magical about the M1 RAM. YMMV.


Thanks man, glad you are rocking with your machine!
I meant the M1 Max. - just the lowest available CPU option on the istore selection.. (which more than good enough for my uses!) - the M1 Max is capped at 64GB by the way - so ja thats the most i can afford


----------



## Drhoust87 (Nov 21, 2022)

Tronam said:


> As an M1 Ultra early adopter I’ve been very pleased so far, but if being honest with myself I’m not using anywhere close to its full potential. I could’ve easily gotten by perfectly fine with the M1 Max and 32GB of memory. The 64GB has definitely eliminated any swapping to virtual memory though, so if you’re allergic to that it should put your mind at ease.
> 
> In all my 30 years with personal computers I’ve never had this much headroom overkill before; I always had to be thoughtful about my workflow to avoid audio playback issues or Adobe suite slowdowns with my imaging projects. It makes me a little sad in a weird way. Either modern computers have finally eclipsed the demands of my content creation or I’ve stopped growing as an artist. Maybe it’s both. 😂


OR.. maybe its showing you a GAP in your potential. of how much MORE you can do and better you can be! listen to the technology spirit and go forth and use all your CPU and RAM on next project


----------



## Drhoust87 (Nov 21, 2022)

Thanks everyone. almost immediately after posting, I realised that I must actually just hustle some dollar and get the 64GB. i could have got by on 32GB, but if im already spending so much money, i might as well put in a bit extra and be super comfortable for the next couple of years


----------



## tmhuud (Nov 21, 2022)

Meh, I don't know Nick. (actually I do know Nick) But I digress. 

If he, the Dr. (needs) 32 now and a year later 64.... well I'm a firm believer in future proofing oneself to an extent. A L T H O U G H.... That is pretty hard to do these days as new configurations are coming out all the time. And obviously money has to be taken into consideration.


----------



## Windbag (Nov 22, 2022)

Studio Max 64gb here...split duty between motion graphics and Logic. My compositor has run out of RAM enough that I'm rather glad I didn't settle for the 32GB base model. 

I am a little surprised at how much hassle this particular workstation swap was (coming from a 'trashcan' pro - previous mac upgrades have been uneventful) but man, the things that are M1 optimized are _very_ quick.

The thing is also utterly silent - enough so that I'm abandoning plans for a 'machine room' closet that I'd already laid wiring for and keeping it at my desk instead. Even during 4k HDR renders, it has neither spun up fans nor spit out anything other than lukewarm air (the trashcan was a bonafide space heater)


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 23, 2022)

tmhuud said:


> Meh, I don't know Nick. (actually I do know Nick) But I digress.
> 
> If he, the Dr. (needs) 32 now and a year later 64.... well I'm a firm believer in future proofing oneself to an extent. A L T H O U G H.... That is pretty hard to do these days as new configurations are coming out all the time. And obviously money has to be taken into consideration.


I agree with that. Not sure exactly what I was thinking when I wrote that you aren't going to future-proof machines, but yes, you don't want to run out of memory.

Meanwhile, I don't have Logic open, but I have Affinity Photo open. If you make pictures out of fragments of different weird photographs you took that you then transform into art - and who among us doesn't? - having several photos open is absolutely normal.

And usually I have Word open as well.

Here's why men with my name wouldn't want less than 64GB:


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 23, 2022)

Drhoust87 said:


> Thanks everyone. almost immediately after posting, I realised that I must actually just hustle some dollar and get the 64GB. i could have got by on 32GB, but if im already spending so much money, i might as well put in a bit extra and be super comfortable for the next couple of years


In a week won't remember worrying about the extra money. It was the right decision.


----------



## tmhuud (Nov 23, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> In a week won't remember worrying about the extra money. It was the right decision.


See Nick, your already running out of memory. lol... Also, I love that "MEMORY HOGS"!


----------



## Soundbed (Nov 24, 2022)

Drhoust87 said:


> Just need some help deciding between the Mac Studio 32Gb vs 64GB Ram.





Drhoust87 said:


> I want to have a system that lasts me 5-10 years





Drhoust87 said:


> for the most part - 48GB Ram in mac mini has been doing me okay.



Apple M1 Max 64GB here... it feels like "plenty" to me.

Given that you're currently using ~48GB and want a machine to last 5-10 years, I'd say the 64GB is going to be worth the wait (until you save for it).

Partly because sample developers continue to build instruments that take advantage of the newest machines, and in 5-10 years you may be using virtual instruments that easily expand your footprint a bit more.

My 2¢


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 24, 2022)

Guys, I'm trying to decide between an m1 Max Studio or a Macbook m1 max studio both with the same specs. However, the difference in price is like 1.3k which is a lot, imo. Is the studio portable enough to take to different places? It looks small, but how realistic is it to take it do different places of work?


----------



## Soundbed (Nov 24, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Guys, I'm trying to decide between an m1 Max Studio or a Macbook m1 max studio both with the same specs. However, the difference in price is like 1.3k which is a lot, imo. Is the studio portable enough to take to different places? It looks small, but how realistic is it to take it do different places of work?


I take mine to different rooms of the house on occasion. It feels too "pretty" to carry on the subway.  But if I had a nice way to carry it (in the box it came in??) then I'd feel comfortable taking it to different studios in my car (for instance). It's not physically too large. I'd simply want to protect it from scuffs to preserve its resale value.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 24, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> I take mine to different rooms of the house on occasion. It feels too "pretty" to carry on the subway.  But if I had a nice way to carry it (in the box it came in??) then I'd feel comfortable taking it to different studios in my car (for instance). It's not physically too large. I'd simply want to protect it from scuffs to preserve its resale value.


I guess it'd also depend on having an available monitor too. Damn, I get the macbooks are more convenient, but the price difference to me is huge


----------



## Soundbed (Nov 24, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I guess it'd also depend on having an available monitor too. Damn, I get the macbooks are more convenient, but the price difference to me is huge


Yeah ... So, I know the new OS has a way to share the screen with the iPad. And it "easily" shares with my Samsung "smart" TVs in the house over airplay. So, if you could boot to the iPad (maybe with a lightning cable) and then share to a "smart" TV already at the destination...?

Edit ... it has an HDMI output too lol... so, if you have one long enough it could also plug in to the TV haha


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 24, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Guys, I'm trying to decide between an m1 Max Studio or a Macbook m1 max studio both with the same specs. However, the difference in price is like 1.3k which is a lot, imo. Is the studio portable enough to take to different places? It looks small, but how realistic is it to take it do different places of work?



There's no answer beyond what you already know!

Sure the Mac Studio itself is easy enough to carry around - it's roughly 8" x 8" x 4" and a few pounds - but there's the small matter of plugging it in and connecting a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. And you'll have to put it in something to protect it.

If you're going to move around all the time, well, that's why they make laptops.


----------



## Tronam (Nov 24, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I agree with that. Not sure exactly what I was thinking when I wrote that you aren't going to future-proof machines, but yes, you don't want to run out of memory.
> 
> Meanwhile, I don't have Logic open, but I have Affinity Photo open. If you make pictures out of fragments of different weird photographs you took that you then transform into art - and who among us doesn't? - having several photos open is absolutely normal.
> 
> ...


Despite my earlier comments about being able to get by very well with just 32GB of RAM, I've definitely had some situations where Lightroom has consumed ~50GB alone, especially when using some of the new RAW photo editing features like layered masking and AI scene/object detection. Then again, the more memory you have the more macOS likes to use, so it always makes it look like I need a greater amount than I probably do. I can't deny the wisdom of getting more than you need for future proofing though. At least with storage you have the option to add more externally.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 24, 2022)

Tronam said:


> Then again, the more memory you have the more macOS likes to use


From what I can see, that's true up to finite point. But I can't claim to understand how macOS uses memory. It's cryptic!


----------



## Windbag (Nov 25, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Guys, I'm trying to decide between an m1 Max Studio or a Macbook m1 max studio both with the same specs. However, the difference in price is like 1.3k which is a lot, imo. Is the studio portable enough to take to different places? It looks small, but how realistic is it to take it do different places of work?


I would point out that the Studio has a _bunch_ more ports and will most likely save you needing a thunderbolt dock for workstation use. Between audio interface, USB/midi input (keyboard, BC, etc), drives, and regular kb/mouse peripherals, I have every one of my Mac Studio ports filled.

If you really want a decent thunderbolt dock, you're gonna pay a bit for it, and thus the price difference is even greater between the two approaches, particularly given the 10GbE in the Studio that you can use for ultra fast NAS


...that said, the MBP screens are NICE. If you were starting from scratch you'd need to make the same cost consideration for a Mac Studio screen, but I'm guessing you already have something (and yes absolutely use a TV if you're not doing color-critical gfx work)


----------



## ridgero (Nov 25, 2022)

This answer is easy, 64 GB

In 5-10 years 64 Gb will be on the low side, and 32 Gb on the even lower side.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 25, 2022)

ridgero said:


> This answer is easy, 64 GB
> 
> In 5-10 years 64 Gb will be on the low side, and 32 Gb on the even lower side.



That's always been my thought.

But is it right? Will RAM and storage even be separate things in ten years?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 25, 2022)

Windbag said:


> I would point out that the Studio has a _bunch_ more ports and will most likely save you needing a thunderbolt dock for workstation use. Between audio interface, USB/midi input (keyboard, BC, etc), drives, and regular kb/mouse peripherals, I have every one of my Mac Studio ports filled.
> 
> If you really want a decent thunderbolt dock, you're gonna pay a bit for it, and thus the price difference is even greater between the two approaches, particularly given the 10GbE in the Studio that you can use for ultra fast NAS
> 
> ...


Can I use the same monitors I sue on PC with a mac studio?


----------



## Windbag (Nov 25, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Can I use the same monitors I sue on PC with a mac studio?


Yeah, you should be fine going to pretty much anything with an HDMI input via the main HDMI out (I can finally run my 3840 ultrawide monitor at a decent refresh rate, unlike the trashcan's HDMI 1.4 or whatever it was)...or to displayport and I'm sure DVI via adapters

I'll note in case anyone's interested: my now-abandoned machine room plans taught me that 40ft is the ABSOLUTE LONGEST unboosted HDMI run you can get away with at 4k, and you're likely to get occasional dropouts. It's surprising how fast you eat up that much length going around the edge of a room or around doors...you're gonna want fiber to go any farther (and be aware of the incurred latency)


----------



## benwiggy (Nov 26, 2022)

ridgero said:


> In 5-10 years 64 Gb will be on the low side, and 32 Gb on the even lower side.


Computing power increases much faster than the rate at which the 'power that tasks need' increase. I used to work in book publishing, on Beige classic Macs. Images got larger, software got more powerful, but the computers outpaced that need. DTP is now an essentially trivial task for computers than can render 8K video.

Similarly, RAM usage has largely plateau-ed for many tasks. Computers have been selling with 8 - 16 Gb for over a decade. 

Disk speeds now are already as fast as RAM was a decade ago. It won't be long before it will be impossible to tell whether something is loading from disk or already in RAM. 

But: will sample libraries keep getting larger for ever, or is there a finite limit? (And will 'disruptive' technologies provide an alternative to size -- such as AI modelling?) 




Nick Batzdorf said:


> Will RAM and storage even be separate things in ten years?


Maybe in terms of physical hardware, there will be convergence, but functionally there's a significant difference. (Not least that RAM is emptied when power is off!)


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 26, 2022)

benwiggy said:


> Computing power increases much faster than the rate at which the 'power that tasks need' increase.


My experience - okay, everyone's  - until 15-20 years ago was that music and audio programs always brought personal computers to their knees after 2-1/2 years.

Computer years used to be 20 man-years, as I've posted before. A 4-year-old computer/80-year-old man is still full of life, but he isn't going to compete in the Olympic marathons we ask of our computers (as I mix in yet another metaphor).

How many man-years are machines today? Eight?

***
And then it flipped. Machines got a whole lot more powerful than the software could make use of - again about 20 years ago. It took a while before we got 64-bit memory access, before all those processing cores were put to work efficiently, and of course SSDs were every bit as big an advance.

So I used to and still do and don't quite agree with your assessment. 



benwiggy said:


> I used to work in book publishing, on Beige classic Macs. Images got larger, software got more powerful, but the computers outpaced that need. DTP is now an essentially trivial task for computers than can render 8K video.


And now people aren't interested in reading, they just want to sit through wankers on the Internet telling them to subscribe if they like what they're going to tell them several minutes from now... when they could have read what they want to know by the time you read this sentence. 




benwiggy said:


> Similarly, RAM usage has largely plateau-ed for many tasks. Computers have been selling with 8 - 16 Gb for over a decade.
> 
> Disk speeds now are already as fast as RAM was a decade ago. It won't be long before it will be impossible to tell whether something is loading from disk or already in RAM.
> 
> But: will sample libraries keep getting larger for ever, or is there a finite limit? (And will 'disruptive' technologies provide an alternative to size -- such as AI modelling?)


AI or just modeling, yes. I can't really see how much larger sample libraries would need to get.

To me it also seems likely that tastes will change and people will become less exclusively interested emulated acoustic instruments, especially orchestras, and more interested in other sounds. That's already starting to happen - not that sampled orchestras aren't still thriving as well.



benwiggy said:


> Maybe in terms of physical hardware, there will be convergence, but functionally there's a significant difference. (Not least that RAM is emptied when power is off!)


I'm speculating about ten years from now. There may not be a functional difference then, if for no other reason than that The Man wants me to keep replacing storage devices.


----------



## Drhoust87 (Nov 30, 2022)

Thanks guys! I have ordered the M1 MAX with 1TB SSD and 64GB RAM - its coming from Hong Kong iStore via my brother just after Christmas


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 30, 2022)

Is there a reason apple don’t have these macs readily available in stock? Seems really weird to me that they have them made on order…


----------



## AndyP (Nov 30, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Is there a reason apple don’t have these macs readily available in stock? Seems really weird to me that they have them made on order…


I bought my Studio with 64 / 1 at Cyberstore. Was actually marked as BTO and within 2 days after ordering at my home! And cheaper than Apple was also. So it's worth looking at other distributors.


----------



## Tronam (Dec 13, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Is there a reason apple don’t have these macs readily available in stock? Seems really weird to me that they have them made on order…


Hard to say. I’ve noticed the only model Apple Stores seem to stock is the base 512GB M1 Max configuration. Our local store only got 1 M1 Ultra model at launch and that was it. I guess they figure the type of user who would buy a higher end Mac Studio will want to custom configure for their specific needs, so just make them all build-to-order.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 15, 2022)

Tronam said:


> Hard to say. I’ve noticed the only model Apple Stores seem to stock is the base 512GB M1 Max configuration. Our local store only got 1 M1 Ultra model at launch and that was it. I guess they figure the type of user who would buy a higher end Mac Studio will want to custom configure for their specific needs, so just make them all build-to-order.



It's much cheaper for Apple not to have money tied up in inventory.


----------

