# Your experience with sax VI's?



## bill5 (Apr 11, 2019)

Casually window shopping and wondering. I think a good basic one, also free, but it's just solo and little in the way of articulations etc is the DVS sax. Not amazing, but if all you're doing is basic stuff, accompaniment etc it can be enough. 

I have tried Saxlab and did not care for at all.

Others? I imagine Chris Hein's is highly regarded.


----------



## scoble08 (Apr 11, 2019)

bill5 said:


> Casually window shopping and wondering. I think a good basic one, also free, but it's just solo and little in the way of articulations etc is the DVS sax. Not amazing, but if all you're doing is basic stuff, accompaniment etc it can be enough.
> 
> I have tried Saxlab and did not care for at all.
> 
> Others? I imagine Chris Hein's is highly regarded.



Audio Modeling Saxophones.


----------



## bill5 (Apr 11, 2019)

If their video demos are any indication, I'll have to disagree. I think it might be the performers though...for the most part they are playing it more like a keyboard than a sax.


----------



## bill5 (Apr 11, 2019)

Checked Chris Hein's Compact Pro - far better than anything else I've heard so far, at least on initial listen.


----------



## autopilot (Apr 11, 2019)

Depends what you are doing. Demos sound great but end up being accordions by the time you play with them in full combat  

I have not found any better than a combo of Audio Modelling/ Sample Modelling with BBB. You will not find a more expressive sax than Sample Modelling and it is all about phrasing and articulations partic for big band. 

Broadway Big Band better for falloffs and shorts to me plus adds some genuine life to an ensemble sound with imperfect but good enough tuning - but each to their own. 

BBB Lites is fine - you don't need the full version.


----------



## bill5 (Apr 11, 2019)

Thanks - yeah that's the thing, even the demos sounded accordian-like to me with AM. But it's all subjective, I'm sure others disagree and that's fine. My opinion is only that.  Oh not doing any big band or anything cinematic, more rock/pop/R&B etc, a little jazz perhaps but that would probably be pushing it for a VI.


----------



## artomatic (Apr 11, 2019)

So far, AM Saxophones are tops for me. Yes, the keyboard player on the demo played it like well, a keyboard player.
But the most important part of the demo is showcasing the sound of the modeled sax.


----------



## jamwerks (Apr 11, 2019)

Haven't used them yet, but the latest 8Dio saxes seem very well done, albeit definitely jazz arts, not really a classical sound.


----------



## bill5 (Apr 12, 2019)

jamwerks said:


> Haven't used them yet, but the latest 8Dio saxes seem very well done, albeit definitely jazz arts, not really a classical sound.


I'll check that out. Thanks!

Edit: I just looked. For $250 I get tenor and baritone saxes. No alto or soprano. That's so stupid it's hilarious. So is the fact that sax isn't listed anywhere that I saw...I had to use their search function. Maybe they're hiding because they're ashamed of it?


----------



## Saxer (Apr 12, 2019)

+1 for Audiomodeling


----------



## jamwerks (Apr 12, 2019)

bill5 said:


> Maybe they're hiding because they're ashamed of it?


Give them a listen and see if they should be hiding them. BTW, there are 2 Tenors & a Bari. 2 Altos & a Sop on the way.


----------



## bill5 (Apr 12, 2019)

Thx, but I'll wait for the full package! Not like I was ready to buy a sax VI tomorrow, so hopefully it all works out. Any rough idea what "on the way" means? Like next month, next year etc?


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 15, 2019)

Chris Hein's jazz-oriented horns collection is outstanding. I use it more for section work than solos, where I'm more inclined to go for Audio Modeling with a Yamaha WX5 wind controller, but the timbre is more pleasing to me with Hein's stuff (and he provides MANY choices for each instrument, just as AM do), so I find it blends better in larger arrangements. The only way (even with massive programming, for VSL or Hein) that I can get more realistic phrasing-wise than AM is to play my actual saxes, but I do too much of my work late at night.


----------



## Seasharp (Apr 18, 2019)

bill5 said:


> Casually window shopping and wondering. I think a good basic one, also free, but it's just solo and little in the way of articulations etc is the DVS sax. Not amazing, but if all you're doing is basic stuff, accompaniment etc it can be enough.
> 
> I have tried Saxlab and did not care for at all.
> 
> Others? I imagine Chris Hein's is highly regarded.





bill5 said:


> Casually window shopping and wondering. I think a good basic one, also free, but it's just solo and little in the way of articulations etc is the DVS sax. Not amazing, but if all you're doing is basic stuff, accompaniment etc it can be enough.
> 
> I have tried Saxlab and did not care for at all.
> 
> Others? I imagine Chris Hein's is highly regarded.




As a Tenor Sax player I have found only one Tenor Sax that is both realistic and expressive and that’s the Super Articulated ones I have on my Yamaha Tyros 3. It was the reason I bought the keyboard. Also for Sampled Sax to sound real you have to play like a Sax player and not a keyboard or piano player. This is critical and true of all Sampled Acoustic instruments such as Cello, Violin, Guitar, etc. You have to play them as you would the real thing. Most Sax demos are played too staccato or with runs that sound like someone playing a piano. 

Now so far the Chris Hein solo saxes are the next best to my ears. Especially the Alto which for some reason seems to be the hardest to sample correctly. Most sound like Harmonicas. The Vienna Saxes may not be too bad but it’s hard to tell from the demos which are terrible. As to Modeled Saxes, I haven’t heard any that are convincing. EW is scheduled to release a Pop Brass library. Maybe they will surprise me. I’m always on the lookout for Sax libraries especially a realistic Alto.


----------



## David Cuny (Apr 18, 2019)

Another vote for AudioModeling. But you'll want a breath or wind controller to get the most out of it.


----------



## juliansader (Apr 20, 2019)

It depends on whether you are looking for jazz saxophones or for classical saxophones. There is a cornucopia of jazz saxophone libraries and VSTi's, but sadly, not even a single library of classical saxophones.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 20, 2019)

Huh? VSL Saxophones has been out for eons, and is incredible-sounding -- just a bit tougher to work with for idiomatic playing, compared to SWAM. A gazillion articulations though, so you can make it happen, with perhaps a limitation on control over vibrato details compared to SWAM. VSL Saxophones was actually the first sample library I ever bought, precisely because it was the first good option.


----------



## Tice (Apr 20, 2019)

I've been getting some great performance out of the VSL saxes. I do find that I can't get a very aggressive sound out of them, but overall they've worked out great for me.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 20, 2019)

I think it depends on the voicing. Also the articulations. I haven't used them in a few months as I've been focusing on polishing up percussion tracks, but my recollection is that some of the marcato patches get a bit growly. Maybe not aggressive enough for jazz.

The Soprano Sax from CMusic can be good for solos, and the Chris Hein stuff for section work (a bit better than the CMusic stuff for that purpose). I think of all of that as placeholders for the most part, except maybe section work, where having three or four different players and instrument models for each sax voice really works wonders when using Chris Hein's jazz library.


----------



## Henu (Apr 21, 2019)

Shamelessly gonna post this one again here, so here's a pop/rock sax solo done with AM. 



Granted, there are a couple of lines which are nearly impossible to pull (the whole solo started as a joke in the first place) off and it could had been molded even more realistically, but this is how you can make the AM tenor sax sound played with keyboards and utilizing just some (expr/vib/growl) CC's.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 21, 2019)

I'm nervous about posting parts from stuff I haven't released yet (even though some of this stuff has been near-complete for a decade or more -- copyright laws are funny though). I have one solo in particular that has a lot of ghost notes, and practically every possible Yamaha WX5 controller going on as is possible, and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do a better job of it on a real sax. That's more testimony to my limited abilities on sax vs. clarinet, than anything else, I suppose. But it made a huge difference when I switched the part from tenor sax to alto sax.

To my ears, the alto sax is the gem of the SWAM collection, and especially in terms of consistency and timbre across the registers. The tenor sax doesn't sound like a sax to me in the higher register, and I struggle with the bari as well. The soprano seems to fare a bit better, but I've pretty much abandoned that one in favour of Chris Hein's and CMusic's, due specifically to the timbre more than anything else.

I still maintain that saxes are the hardest thing to recreate. I feel that the Sample Modeling trumpet, trombone, horn and tuba, in particular, are magical and quite realistic. And I think it's less about the approach the two teams took than it is about the relative difficulty of the task.


----------



## Will Blackburn (Jul 29, 2019)

Very frustrating their isn't a perfect solution for Jazz. Absolutely love the sound of Vintage Horns 1 & 2 but there are next to no RR's and can't control expression. That would be my perfect library if it did. Not a fan of SWAM at least in a Jazz context, it sounds really stale compared to VH and has none of the character. Blue Street is cool you have to be going for that vintage sound from the get go. 

The VH Film Noir Alto Sax gives this instant kinda vibe


----------



## Leslie Fuller (Jul 29, 2019)

bill5 said:


> Casually window shopping and wondering. I think a good basic one, also free, but it's just solo and little in the way of articulations etc is the DVS sax. Not amazing, but if all you're doing is basic stuff, accompaniment etc it can be enough.
> 
> I have tried Saxlab and did not care for at all.
> 
> Others? I imagine Chris Hein's is highly regarded.



+1 for DVS Sax.

Used this to “improve” a Latin Music client’s demo, which had a horrible GM midi sax, and he was impressed!

When he feels like finishing the demo, maybe we’ll look at a better alternative.


----------



## Leslie Fuller (Jul 29, 2019)

While on the subject, any opinions on a good sax for Jazz/Latin Jazz?


----------



## KarlHeinz (Jul 29, 2019)

If you have a breath/wind controller, mpe or something like that you should definitely have a look over here:





__





Imoxplus - plugins for wind controllers


Imoxplus is a provider of VST and AU instruments specialised for wind & breath controllers.



www.imoxplus.com





Especially the new demo vids for 1.2 are really impressive I must say.

Great guys with decades of experience in physical modelling, great support, I am really sad I dont have a controller and that it just dont work in my workflow.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Jul 29, 2019)

I just realized, I haven't a clue what DVS is, or Vintage Horns either for that matter. Couldn't find a product with the latter name, and DVS doesn't show up in the abbreviations list.

Ah, Vintage Horns is from Big Fish Audio, which is why I didn't know about it, as I thought that vendor EXCLUSIVELY did phrase libraries.





__





freshstuff4you Official – Free Samples Presets Plugins DAW Acapellas


Use freshstuff4you / freshstuff4u to download Music Production Tools Like WAV Samples Sound Libraries Sample Collections MIDI Virtual Instruments VST AU ...




freshstuff4you.com





The content of that site is being whited over for security reasons, so I am having trouble reading the description in order to see if it contains single hit samples or not. I'll find another site that sells it, that isn't whitelisted.

Here's a review of Volume 2:



https://www.samplelibraryreview.com/the-reviews/review-vintage-horns-2-big-fish-audio/



And a demo:



https://www.samplelibraryreview.com/the-reviews/review-vintage-horns-2-big-fish-audio/#Demos



Sounds very mechanical and fake to my ears, but we all listen for different stuff.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 29, 2019)

Henu said:


> Shamelessly gonna post this one again here, so here's a pop/rock sax solo done with AM.



What brand of accordion?

(Seriously, well done.)


----------



## Leslie Fuller (Jul 29, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I just realized, I haven't a clue what DVS is, or Vintage Horns either for that matter. Couldn't find a product with the latter name, and DVS doesn't show up in the abbreviations list.
> 
> Ah, Vintage Horns is from Big Fish Audio, which is why I didn't know about it, as I thought that vendor EXCLUSIVELY did phrase libraries.
> 
> ...



DVS can be found here: http://www.dreamvortex.co.uk/instruments/


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Jul 29, 2019)

Interesting; so it's a synthesizer then? I didn't see any detailed descriptions; just a download button (maybe it's a freebie), and all the other stuff they have is more or less modeled synths. Maybe I'll download it and try it out after the work day ends. Martin Best has a good reputation.

EDIT: Nevermind; it's Windows-only.


----------



## Wally Garten (Jul 29, 2019)

Will Blackburn said:


> Absolutely love the sound of Vintage Horns 1 & 2 but there are next to no RR's and can't control expression.



Yeah. And sudden jumps between dynamic layers. It's a shame -- the concept and the sample recordings are great.

I'll also row against the tide and say that I've never liked the SWAM stuff, at least in the demos I've heard. It's cool that it's so responsive to breath control, which I assume is what people like about it. But I find the tone very synthetic.

Since no one has mentioned it -- I just picked up MOJO 2 and have found its saxes to be quite good. (Again, more jazz/pop/latin-oriented than classical.) Less control than SWAM, probably, but verrrry nice tones.

Also, this is my very favorite one-trick pony:






Sensual Sax for Kontakt







www.embertone.com


----------



## David Cuny (Jul 29, 2019)

Will Blackburn said:


> Very frustrating there isn't a perfect solution for Jazz. Absolutely love the sound of Vintage Horns 1 & 2 but there are next to no RR's and can't control expression. That would be my perfect library if it did.


Are you basing your opinion on the SWAM saxes on experience? I'm asking because there are a lot of parameters you can adjust to alter the basic sound.

Fable Sounds just had Broadway Lites on sale for $150. It feels a lot like Vintage Horns 1, but is deeper. Personally, I found VH1 a bit of a disappointment, but to each their own! 

Unfortunately, I don't think Fable Sounds will be having another sale soon, and at full price, I think the library feels overpriced.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Jul 29, 2019)

Saxes are tricky instruments, as I said. You will NEVER get a realistic sax sound with 100% static intonation (even if using VSL's saxes to do classical work, the instrument typically is played with non-constant vibrato in such contexts and is occasionally allowed some inflections that might be frowned upon in the clarinet section).

I use the Yamaha WX5, which sends simultaneous controls that are based on intuitive reed pressure, wind, attack, and other factors. Almost impossible to recreate these on a keyboard (except maybe a ROLI or equivalent). AT least with any dexterity and fluidity, considering how many simultaneous controls you'd have to be managing with hands and feet.

I am varying pitch, growl, vibrato, and expression, at all times. If I start with notation and/or a keyboard, out of laziness of a short schedule, I will draw in the equivalent, as anything is better than nothing, and then will fine-tune, but the only time I may leave a so-called "pure" sax sound is in section work that has to be super-tight and coordinated. Even there, I'm going to play a bit with vibrato.

There are so many choices for the saxes in SWAM, that I never feel that basic timbre is at issue -- this is where the biggest improvements were made from the Kontakt version. Also, there are a LOT of parameters on that front page (and beyond!). I do some tricks with a few of them and it makes a big difference. Luckily, I find these custom settings to work pretty well from piece to piece, so I might tweak differently for big band than for solo chamber jazz. Yet I do use CMusic and Chris Hein for big band as well in some cases. Mostly because I do still feel that the timbral range is wider with their choices.


----------



## Will Blackburn (Jul 29, 2019)

David Cuny said:


> Are you basing your opinion on the SWAM saxes on experience? I'm asking because there are a lot of parameters you can adjust to alter the basic sound.
> 
> Fable Sounds just had Broadway Lites on sale for $150. It feels a lot like Vintage Horns 1, but is deeper. Personally, I found VH1 a bit of a disappointment, but to each their own!
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't think Fable Sounds will be having another sale soon, and at full price, I think the library feels overpriced.




Thanks David i will have a look at Fable. I have Swam and a TEC breath controller. The playability is great but it just sounds thin and lifeless to me, no character, no growl. That is playing it pretty much out of the box though so definitely up for hearing about tweaking parameters.

I keep coming back to VH though, i love the air and vibrato in the samples, albeit they are baked in.

Another example at 4.45, VH can pull this off way more effortlessly and (imo) realistically than anything else i've tried. The main problem being the lack of RR's and Expression control.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Jul 29, 2019)

Yeah, and this is where people's priorities differ so much. For me, there is NOTHING that matters more than expression and round robins. Every instrument and player sounds different anyway, so I'd rather have something less exact if that's the trade-off. It's why I used Pianoteq for so many years, until the sample libraries finally caught up (mostly) with the playability, expression, and realism of phrasing that the modeling approach made possible.

Obviously, in a perfect world, none of this would matter, but as we always make trade-offs (so far), our different priorities inform our criteria for yes/no on each library/product.


----------



## David Cuny (Jul 29, 2019)

Will Blackburn said:


> The playability is great but it just sounds thin and lifeless to me, no character, no growl.


On the main screen, there's a *SubHarm *and *Growl* parameter. You can move these sliders to change the basic sound of the instrument.

A more flexible option would be to map the MIDI CC controllers to drive the various parameters.

If you click the *Options* button on the bottom, you'll get to the Options page. Click the *MIDI Mapping* button there to get to the MIDI Mapping page. There, you can trigger various parameters using MIDI CC Controllers, including:

Vibrato Rate
Vibrato Depth
SubHarmonics
Growl
Flutter Tongue
Formant
Breath Noise
For example, you can have the *Growl* increase with breath pressure by mapping it to CC2 (Expression), and setting the *Min* and *Max* to determine how much effect the expression parameter will drive it.


----------



## Rob (Jul 30, 2019)

I have received free instruments from my friends at AM, so I'm biased... but as far as control over the behavior of the instrument is concerned there's nothing I know of better than Swam saxes. Which other virtual sax could do something like this for example?


----------



## Saxer (Jul 30, 2019)

Rob said:


> Which other virtual sax could do something like this for example?


Hard enough on a real sax


----------



## Rob (Jul 30, 2019)

Saxer said:


> Hard enough on a real sax


haha right...


----------



## Henu (Jul 31, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> What brand of accordion?
> 
> (Seriously, well done.)



Thank you sir! Now I just can't sleep properly until your pun is explained to me. :D


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 31, 2019)

Henu said:


> Thank you sir! Now I just can't sleep properly until your pun is explained to me. :D



Not a pun, just being silly. Someone said that sax emulations sound like accordions.

Yours clearly doesn't.


----------



## Henu (Jul 31, 2019)

Ah, I missed that. :D Thanks! ^^


----------



## givemenoughrope (Jul 31, 2019)

Saxer said:


> +1 for Audiomodeling


Do you really use these? For sketching I guess...?


----------



## Rob (Jul 31, 2019)

givemenoughrope said:


> Do you really use these? For sketching I guess...?


why so surprised?


----------



## chocobitz825 (Jul 31, 2019)

My top picks now are Aaron Venture’s from Infinite Woodwinds, then 8DIO studio sax, and audio modeling swam sax.

There is no perfect solution, but these ones have gotten a lot closer when proper writing/playing is considered.


----------



## givemenoughrope (Jul 31, 2019)

Rob said:


> why so surprised?



I guess not really. I’ve just always used bad sax samples before replacing them. And yea, now that I think about it even AM’s saxes aren’t going to satisfy a sax player I guess their ability to do things like bends, accents and dynamic nuances would make replacing each part one at a time much easier.


----------



## Virtual Virgin (Aug 1, 2019)

SWAM saxes! 
Not impressed with any other libraries I’ve heard.


----------



## Saxer (Aug 2, 2019)

givemenoughrope said:


> Do you really use these? For sketching I guess...?


I use them a lot for "work that has to be done". It works fine in brass sections and all kinds of arrangements. I don't use it as a solo voice (except this funky baritone BooDub things).


----------



## chimuelo (Aug 2, 2019)

Saxer said:


> I use them a lot for "work that has to be done". It works fine in brass sections and all kinds of arrangements. I don't use it as a solo voice (except this funky baritone BooDub things).



This is exactly my opinion too.
I’ve worked with top shelf players and sections, I was blessed, learned how to avoid certain voicings because Guitars and Horns tend to make you listen and or follow the arrangement.

I’ve got great Bari Bullfrogs I proudly use, and my Sections work if hidden properly amongst Brass.
My instruments are good enough to use in small ensembles with a Bari Tenor only.

But I refuse to do solo work and would never insult guys like Wayne Shorter or Marsalis by trying to riff through some KennyG-ish Snake Charmer solo.

Obviously by your Avatar you’re a ReedMan.
I wish I could gig with former Reed Men I worked with.
My fusion group is still inspiring and allows me to get through the Bruno Mars/Timberlake Tribute thing I do, but I miss the thick sound of reeds played by someone with Reeds Galore.

Won’t drop any names, but the last guy I worked with is a monster.
Once or so every night I would get a nod from him.
I practiced my ass off for those nods. They made everything worthwhile.

Sorry I get a trifle excited about Reeds and Synths (Shorter / Zawinul)

I use BBB, CHein, Session Pro and PLAY to get my Sounds.
It took 20 years but I’m not squinting from the embarrassing tones anymore.
I’m quite pleased and doing Bruno Mars stuff is challenging enough as I also cover the synths and EPS at the same time.

That was easy because I did lots of Stevie Wonders Sections and had to make sure the left hand played the Horner D6 parts.

You know there’s so many talented developers now, I bet we could get a solo sax sometime soon, but you would need so many different articulations and Reed attacks.

I’d pay 1 large for such a magnificent instrument.


----------



## burp182 (Aug 3, 2019)

The problem comes from the fact that the instrument is such a compromise, mechanically. It's inherently out of tune with itself. Each player learns to compensate for the particular instrument/mouthpiece combination and everyone is a little different in how they do it. The shape of your throat opening and position of your tongue inside the mouth has a massive effect on the sound you produce, along with the level of support your wind column provides. And that's just basic tone production - we haven't even gotten to the zillion things that provide nuance to the playing! 
The number of things good players do intuitively is so large that I think we're a long way from a truly convincing VI. I think modeling and a second generation wind controller that responds to the subtleties I've listed will be necessary to get close. And at that point, how many will be willing to do the work necessary to use it properly? 
I'm a big proponent of Audio Moding/SWAM and look forward to their next generation but I think good saxophonists still have a few years of irreplacibility left.


----------



## MSutherlandComp (Aug 5, 2019)

From what I've heard of the SWAM Sax, it sounds quite good (in context). However, I usually opt for a live musician for sax parts (for obvious reasons). I personally tend to find that I get the best results (in an orchestral context) by using Glory Days, especially with a live performer over the top.


----------



## bill5 (Aug 9, 2019)

burp182 said:


> I'm a big proponent of Audio Moding/SWAM and look forward to their next generation but I think good saxophonists still have a few years of irreplacibility left.


Oh hell even as a die-hard VST/MIDI guy I hope they have many more years than that.  At least with live performances! It'll be a cold day in hell when I go watch someone live who's sitting there "playing" sax or guitar (etc) through a MIDI keyboard and his freaking cell phone or whatever (ie leads and solos; doing it for a little background with a band is tolerable). Even if (or likely when) the tech gets so good it's indistinguishable from the real thing, there's still nothing like watching a performer wail away on a "real" instrument.


----------



## bill5 (Aug 9, 2019)

PS and many thanks for all the replies. Stashing info away for future ref.


----------



## pipedr (Aug 9, 2019)

What do people think of the saxes in Infinite Woodwinds? They sound pretty good to me...


----------



## bill5 (Sep 10, 2020)

Wally Garten said:


> Also, this is my very favorite one-trick pony:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Funny, as I just mentioned in another thread, I recently tried it and was underwhelmed. Not bad though, just didn't do a lot for me.




Rob said:


> I have received free instruments from my friends at AM, so I'm biased... but as far as control over the behavior of the instrument is concerned there's nothing I know of better than Swam saxes. Which other virtual sax could do something like this for example?


Neglected to mention before, that might be the most realistic sax VI performance I've heard yet...definitely keep them in mind.

Appreciate all the replies! It still seems to be a kind of holy grail but they are getting closer..


----------



## Jkist (Sep 10, 2020)

Not perfect, you can tell they are synthesized. HOWEVER, the expressiveness these instruments allow, and their small footprint make them worth it to me. Heres the thing: maybe it doesn't replicate a sax perfectly, but it DOES sound pretty close, and it IS certainly incredibly musical if played right.

For the type of music I make, this is perfect. I do a lot of game music type stuff, and most listeners wont care if its an actual sax, but they will certainly remember a beautifully played solo with lots of emotion. These SWAM instruments can do that.

Its helpful to therefore think of these instruments as a "unique take" on a classic. You can think of them as a new, unique instrument (sorta like a Yamaha Venova or something). They are not a pure sax per se, but they are like a sax, with their own musicality and nuance.

Certainly if you are trying to make some really true-to-form lounge jazz type stuff, that will be heard by more elitist types out there who will judge harshly, you might prefer to go the sampled route, with all the individual articulations you have to program.

As for me, I am loving the synthesized alternative. I always wanted to play sax because of how incredibly expressive and emotional it can sound. SWAM does that. I wont ever learn real sax, but I can be a boss at synth sax and thats enough for me lol. It doesnt sound like a perfect recreation of a sax, but it can replicate that emotional dynamic growling and slurring, almost like a singer. Cant wait what the future brings :D


----------



## bill5 (Sep 11, 2020)

Well that shows how much the performance makes a diff...I can't stand that video, it does sound very obviously fake which I have no interest in. I can sacrifice a little realism for expressiveness, but not that far. I've no interest in a "new sax-like instrument," it needs to be something that is harder to tell, at least on a casual listen.


----------



## Jkist (Sep 11, 2020)

Fair enough 

It doesn't help that the saxophone is probably one of the most difficult instruments to sample, because it is so incredibly expressive. Not like drums, which can be nearly perfectly replicated with proper programming, to the point where 98% of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a sampled kit properly programmed, and a recording of someone playing the kit live, mic'd the same way.

Honestly if you must have max realism, you could try the Fiverr route lol. Hire someone there to play the music and record it. Obviously you can get very mixed results, but generally the highly rated guys are actually very competent, at least with other instruments I've seen. I guess it just depends on what you need it for.

Anyways, beats the hell out of programming articulations for hours, and even a mid level saxophone player in real life will probably sound way more realistic than most programmed saxophones...


----------



## bill5 (Sep 11, 2020)

You're right, and I doubt anyone here would disagree, that it is if not the hardest instrument to duplicate, close to it. No interest in hiring anyone but thx for the idea. SWAM might work if I do it right. It's not like I'm trying to play Coltrane. I'm just old, impatient, lazy


----------



## Saxer (Sep 11, 2020)

The section playing in the video works really well for me... the soprano sax too.


----------



## Bollen (Sep 16, 2020)

@bill5 You should keep an eye out for a new company called Expressive instruments, Tenor coming out at the end of the year and the rest of the family next year. It uses a new technology that could be best described as somewhere between traditional sampling and sample modelling. Claim is if the real instrument can do it, so can this...!


----------



## rgarber (Sep 16, 2020)

I didn't see anybody mention this library but one of my favorites is the Warp IV sax libary at WarpIV.com. I've purchased and used just about all the libraries mentioned in this thread so far even in combinations with other libraries trying to get that perfect sax sectional sound, except SWAM btw but only because I have the original Four Brothers by Sample Modeling and got confused by the split as to who had what, but I feel like I've gotten decent results with all the libraries mentioned. I'm like you all in that I find it difficult to achieve that full rich ensemble sax sectional sound ( I play sax too, own several Yamahas & Selmers from alto to bari) like of the 40's Big Band era. I kind of think it had more to do with my voicings using three to four saxes instead of five that might have been the problem. Doing it by hand, a full Big Band is quite time consuming to input so I've kind of put the hobby to the side the past few years and have been doing 3d modeling instead. The fellow, Saxer, he's my preference for best sax sectional and big band sound of any track, Bluzen Basin or something like... awesome track! Oh, and I also found out that I'm terrible at mixing and I think that's a whole other beast to tame trying to get the best sax sound out of the libraries. Just my two cents.


----------



## David Cuny (Sep 16, 2020)

rgarber said:


> I didn't see anybody mention this library but one of my favorites is the Warp IV sax libary at WarpIV.com.


Check out the other ongoing sax VSTi thread, where Jeff from Warp IV talks the latest update to the Warp IV library.


----------



## rgarber (Sep 17, 2020)

Thanks Dave, and I just did, and what he's saying in that thread is the same he'll tell you on the phone and email; I've spoken to him a few times. When I first started coming to vi-control.net when this subject came up his library was recommended frequently. Why the drop-off in publicity since is a little baffling to me but he never advertises as far as I can tell. And I have all his libraries except for the newest sax library cause I thought I would try to get some use out of BBB which for a short while you could get at $800. And honestly, I have more trouble understanding how BBB works than any other library I got and seriously, I got them all. Except the Mojo one, don't have it.


----------

