# Rhythms with odd meters



## Ranietz (Aug 28, 2009)

Hi.

I was searching the net for some resources on rhythms with odd meters and although I found a few they were not quite what I was looking for. I've attached an example of what I'm looking for.

Explanation of the example (the accents marks the strong beats):
9/8: This is the rhythm for the main theme (or the Cylon theme) from Battlestar Galactica (Played by Gamelan)
7/8: This is a rhythm that is used in many action scores. Brian Tyler and Marco Beltrami uses this a lot.
5/4: This is the rhythm for the Mission Impossible Theme.

Do anyone have some examples of this kind of rhythms? Or maybe a link to a useful website on the subject?

-Ranietz-


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## bryla (Aug 28, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-Nr__htQU0


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## Ranietz (Aug 28, 2009)

bryla @ Fri 28 Aug said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-Nr__htQU0



Not exactly what I was hoping for... :wink:


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## Waywyn (Aug 28, 2009)

To learn from Pop I would listen a lot to Sting. He is master in using odd meters and making it sound 4/4 ...

- I was brought to my senses
- Seven Days
- I hung my head


To listen from Rock/Metal (some very cool stuff out there)

- Dream Theater all the way (Awake, Images and Words
- Sieges Even
- Meshuggah
- Fates Warning

As for tribal rhythms I would definitely check out indian musicians and their way of counting (you know, all that kinda of takadi taka etc. )


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## bryla (Aug 28, 2009)

Big lie, small world from Sting also


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## Ranietz (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks Alex.

I have a Meshuggah CD lying around somewhere. I'll take a listen to it.

I also found an interesting video on YouTube (It didn't occur to me to do a search there. doh.) 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4gTLMrJD1Y


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## Johnny22 (Aug 31, 2009)

what about this :mrgreen: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UTaPkYqjlI&feature=fvw


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## Ranietz (Aug 31, 2009)

Nah. Too slow for my taste.


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## Stevie (Aug 31, 2009)

Pretty much everything from the 10 Summoner's Tales CD of Sting.
Don't forget "Take 5".


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## re-peat (Aug 31, 2009)

John Lennon contributed some odd metered moments to the Beatles' catalogue, the most famous being *All You Need Is Love*, *Good Morning Good Morning* and *Happiness Is A Warm Gun* (the last one being particularly complex by popsong standards).

_


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## Stevie (Aug 31, 2009)

Oh yeah, all you need is love, good example.


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## Ranietz (Aug 31, 2009)

I was originally looking for odd meters in movie scores, but since Sting got mentioned quite a few times I'll take a listen to his music and see if I can pick up a thing or two.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.


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## Stevie (Aug 31, 2009)

movies, hmm, can't name specific ones, but goldsmith did it very often.


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## re-peat (Aug 31, 2009)

Another very famous odd metered song is, of course, Pink Floyd's *Money.* But one of my all time favourite pieces of (odd metered) music *ever* is Zappa's *Watermelon In Easter Hay*.
In filmmusic, a great and very beautiful example is John Williams' *For Gillian* cue from "The Fury".

_


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## Waywyn (Aug 31, 2009)

Ranietz @ Mon Aug 31 said:


> I was originally looking for odd meters in movie scores, but since Sting got mentioned quite a few times I'll take a listen to his music and see if I can pick up a thing or two.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions everyone.



Thing is, if you transfer "Seven Days" 5/4 feeling to e.g. the Dhol, it sounds like a oddmeter movie pattern.

The most important thing is always the composition part of the percussions. If you treat percussion not just as things to beat on, you will gain a lof from it by treating them as instruments which have their own frequencies and character.

I would simply load and setup one simple drum (best example is the Dhol again here, since you got sticks, brushed and normal lo/hi hits all in one program). Do a straight 16th or 8th note pattern with sticks or hi drums and then add hits to whatever accents you like.

All the common oddmeter rhythms got their accents on 1,3 and 5.
.. or instead of 3 on 2AND (but then with the 4)

e.g. 7/4: 1, 3, 5
5/4: 1, 3 or 1 2AND but then 4

etc. ... just fool around with it as if you would explore an e.g. piano and see what you can come up with. Best things happen by not studying and recreating but by exploring something and come up with your own stuff


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## rJames (Aug 31, 2009)

Goldsmith; go to the iTunes music store and search for "Air Force One."

Listen to the preview for , "The Hijacking." Here Goldsmith uses 7/4 to give that feel of pushing; off centeredness; those accents force you to get ready for the 1 beat.

Then listen to "Escape from Air Force One," preview. There he uses 15/8 to keep the "thematic" feel of 7/8 (or 7/4) but it flows differently because he has what could be counted as 8/8 followed by 7/8 (15/8). 

As Alex says above, just experiment. The deal with odd meters is where the accents are. I can remember counting out crazy sounding meters only to find out that they are fairly normal but with crazy accents. Like 12/8 counted as 3,3 4,2 or 9/8 counted as 4,4,1. Obviously , they should be counted in paris of 3s. But when you put in a 4 and count it One, two, Three, four; it kinda throws things a new direction.

Also, like voice leading to a strange transition; when you count an odd meter, the accents have to flow into the next bar. If it feels good, do it. (flow)


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## mixolydian (Aug 31, 2009)

Our own John Graham has some "odd" meterings in his music. And it's not just a great listen because of the meterings.  Take a listen to Hel No (a more recent track 'cos of the Tonehammer samples if I'm not completely wrong :wink or Alien Storm just to name a very few. I have no problem to mention John in a row with James Newton Howard. =o

http://www.johngrahammusic.com/home.html


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## JohnG (Aug 31, 2009)

Jerry Goldsmith has been using these meters in his big action scores since the 1960s. Favourites include the action cues (actually I think most of the cues) from Air Force One and the score for Total Recall.

And thank you, mixolydian. What a nice compliment!


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## nikolas (Aug 31, 2009)

I'll say it straight: JohnG is one of my favorite composers in here (and favorite member as well!) along with a few others (who will be named when the opportunity arises). Some of his tracks are permanantely in my mp3 player, in CDs, and stuff!

As for odd time signatures, I use them all the time, in 'classical' music, but there usually isn't a time signature to have a pulse of some sort (so at some times I don't even use bars anymore or barlines), and others I just quit using time signature signs, since they were changing every single bar from 15/16 to 21/16+1/8 or whatever really. :D

I will dig up a few scores/examples to post here, if there is interest!


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## om30tools (Aug 31, 2009)

Tool's music is filled with them, listen to practically any one of their tracks, an interesting track is Lateralus, it's compund time signature(s) are skillfully executed, based on the fibonacci sequence.
There's even a youtube explanation of the song's odd meters and teh relation to the fibonacci sequence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS7CZIJVxFY


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## musicpete (Aug 31, 2009)

Hey nikolas, that is one of the many reasons why I like the music of Stravinsky and Bartok so much. They were both able to write totally fluent musical lines (melodic or otherwise) which felt totally natural, yet used sometimes bizarrely switching meters. It is a wonderful opportunity to give music an organized structure on multiple levels. Listening to the last dance in Stravinskys Sacre and counting the rythms still sends shivers down my back, even after all those years...


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## CFDG (Sep 1, 2009)

Odd meters? 
Discipline - Beat - Three of a perfect pair, King Crimson.


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## bryla (Sep 1, 2009)

Everything Pilc and Hoenig have made


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## Tilman (Sep 4, 2009)

Hi,

concerning odd meters, I am a fan of Goldsmiths "Hollow Man" soundtrack. Try this one in 11/8:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUX3xLEpwKg


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## Ranietz (Sep 4, 2009)

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

I find it a bit hard though, to figure out the time signature on some music. On the "Hollow Man" clip for example, I can hear a repeating rhythm figure but there's no way I could have figured out it was in 11/8. I tried counting and figured it was 12/8 (at least in one part of the clip).

So there you have it. I got no groove. I'm rhythm deaf. 

Kidding aside. I guess this things improves with repeated listening to music with odd meters, counting along, and maybe try to divide the rhythm into 2's and 3's (at least I find it easier that way).

Thanks again.


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## SergeD (Sep 4, 2009)

Mahavishnu and Gentle Giant maybe have some

SergeD


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## poseur (Sep 5, 2009)

Ranietz @ Fri Sep 04 said:


> I guess this things improves with repeated listening to music with odd meters, counting along, and maybe try to divide the rhythm into 2's and 3's (at least I find it easier that way).


my best suggestion would be for you to "pause" from listening, for a minute;
it may be more effective to practise _feeling_ these signatures,
yourself,
repetitively.

every rhythm can be broken down, pulse-divided into groups of 2 & 3.

set up a click in any given time-sig, at a comfortable tempo in regards to the beat-division;
make the downbeat of the click noticeable.
if desired & if possible, make noticeable accents in the simplest divisions of the measure length:
play to it.
keep playing to it.
write something to it.

repeat, w/different accents, different sub-divisions.

eventually, you will begin to feel it..... and "think" in it.
imo,
as far as that especial correlation of feeling>thinking goes in music,
there's no substitute for actual practise, eh?

here's an odd-metered piece that i believe has an organic, unforced feel to it;
from 1986, but not from a score..... a band track:

http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=7788778&q=hi

(oops, sorry..... the tempo doesn't begin until about 1m40s).

dt / spltrcl


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## veetguitar (Sep 5, 2009)

Pat Metheny: First Circle
It is 22 beats 
One of the masterworks he has done and like all good examples mentioned here, the feel of it is totally natural.
Then there would be , of course Holsts Planets, first movement Mars in 5 beats
The feel of 7 beats in Indian music is always light happy, uplifting etc. but then you have Marco Belrami who uses it all the time for action scenes in a very fast tempo. (By the way: On his website, I has even score examples for viewing and downloading.


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## Tilman (Sep 8, 2009)

Concerning the "hollow man" clip, it is probably a good idea to start with the first bass note and then count 6/8 + 5/8. I think the bass notes are played always on the 1st, 7th and 10th eight - perhaps this works for you.

By the way: when I scored for the german game Spellforce2, I did some odd-meters, too. Perhaps it is interesting for you?

This one is 15/8 (4/4 + 7/8 ):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89pW3flwmDg

This one 5/4, very easy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAPkKd_3 ... re=related


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## Mundano (Mar 8, 2017)

Hi, i've found this:

http://www.robin-hoffmann.com/tutor...l-orchestral-off-beats-groove-and-odd-meters/
http://www.robin-hoffmann.com/tutorials/rhythm/Odd_Meters.mp3
http://www.robin-hoffmann.com/tutorials/rhythm/Odd_Meters.pdf

*Odd meters*
A very common device in trailer scoring in recent years, especially action trailers. There are 2 kinds of odd meters: the ones that are supposed to more or less “groove” and the ones that are supposed to surprise. Adding one odd bar like 7/8 or 5/4 etc to an otherwise straight 4/4 passage will create quite a bit of surprise for the listener and be a nice effect and add interest to your composition. Recently more common are the grooving odd meters. You will most likely get a more interesting groove out of a 7/4 bar than 2 4/4 bars. For a short dramatic action sequence, we have written a passagen in a “grooving” 7/8 bar:

Score Sheet (PDF): http://www.robin-hoffmann.com/tutorials/rhythm/Odd_Meters.pdf (Odd Meters)

http://www.robin-hoffmann.com/tutorials/rhythm/Odd_Meters.mp3

The groove originates from the celli and basses, playing a rhythm that is picked up by the trumpet and snare drum (in the principle explained above):







The first bar is a 7/8 (which has been going on for a few bars already) and bar 6 is a 6/8, which acts as a “surprise bar” as mentioned above, finishing one eighth “too early”. Usually, odd meter grooves work pretty well with orchestras as long as they are not overly complicated and don’t keep on changing permanently. However, you have to make sure they are notated properly. Usually odd meters are subdivided internally according to the accents in the bar: 7 as above get divided into 4+3 or as in this case 3+4. 5 will be divided into 2+3 or 3+2 etc. This is very important to know and to realize as it will make reading and conducting unneccessarly difficult when not done properly. You indicate the subdivision by the way you beam groups of notes. As you can see in the example above, the 16th in the Percussion are beamed in 6+4+4, clearly indicating that this is a 3+4 subdivision of the 7/8-bar. The 3+4 subdivision is pretty obvious when looking at the groove pattern as counting it 1-2-3-1-2-3-4 appears way more logical than 1-2-3-4-1-2-3. Just find out where the heavy counts in your odd bars are and find out how to subdivide this way.

When writing odd meters, try to avoid to keep on jumping around in the subdivisions, especially if you want it to groove, otherwise, you will a) make it pretty difficult and b) make it less groovy. Repeating rhythms are way simpler to play for everybody than constantly changing rhythms.

*“Fake” Odd Meters*
There also is a way to create the feeling of odd meters with regular meters like 4/4. Instead of subdividing them into the regular 4+4 eighth-notes, you can subdividethem into 3+3+2 or 5+3 etc. and write a rhythmic groove that relies on these subdivisions. This works extremely well to create interesting polyrhythms, adding such an odd subdivision on top of a regular 4/4 beat. Experimenting with such things is really fun and often results in very interesting grooves or patterns. When changing the subdivision in a “regular” meter, you don’t need to change beaming when notating it. However make sure that, as in every 4/4 bar, the half of the bar is clearly visible:

This is an example of a rhythm notated in 4/4 how it should NOT be:






For a musician, this is unneccessarily tricky to read. This rhythm is pretty simple still but imagine a more complex rhythm, it is very easy to get lost when you don’t know at least know where the middle of this bar is.

Way more clear is a notation like this of the same rhythm:






This is way more readable as you know where the middle of the bar is and can see on the spot that you’re playing a row of off-beats. Usually it is enough to make the middle clear but if you get into 16th or even smaller grids, you might want to even mark every beat of the bar in this way. This is an important thing NOT to be overlooked when writing for real musicians. They expect you to write it like this and you will lose a lot of precious time when not doing it as it will be confusing. The same rule applys for the break of the subdivision in odd meters as well as the middle of a 6/8 etc. Just make sure those rhythms are readable as easy as possible.


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## Mundano (Mar 8, 2017)

https://alfredledgerlines.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/whiplash-conquering-complex-time-signatures-in-jazz/

*Whiplash—Conquering Complex Time Signatures in Jazz*
Posted on https://alfredledgerlines.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/whiplash-conquering-complex-time-signatures-in-jazz/ (October 9, 2014) | https://alfredledgerlines.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/whiplash-conquering-complex-time-signatures-in-jazz/#respond (Leave a comment)



Erik Morales

*“Whiplash”*
By Erik Morales
10/09/2014

A movie hit the cinemas, _Whiplash_. This highly acclaimed film is about a young student drummer and his relentless pursuit of perfection. The title of the film is borrowed from a jazz band composition by Hank Levy of the same name and is featured in a key scene of the film. “Whiplash,” composed by Levy for the Don Ellis band, is a notoriously difficult piece. This is due largely in part from the time signature that prevails: 7/4. Don Ellis was a pioneer in championing music that had odd meters. But the difficulty does not necessarily arise from the 7/4 meter.

The challenge of this arrangement and many other odd meter pieces in any genre lies in how the individual measures of 7/4 are subdivided. In order to perform this piece effectively all members of the band must understand how each measure is sub-divided or broken down into smaller parts. Specifically, each measure is subdivided in groupings of two or three eighth notes. Of course the eighth note groupings are arranged in a manner that always equal out to seven full beats (14 eighth notes). These groupings are illustrated in the following manner: (2+2+2+2+3+3), (2+2+3+3+2+2), (3+3+2+2+2+2), (3+3+3+3+2), and so on.

Luckily, most of “Whiplash” is based on the (2+2+2+2+3+3) subdivision of the 7/4 meter. Another variation to count this subdivision is a measure of 4/4 plus a bar of 6/8. Levy’s genius shines in his ability to save the more complex subdivisions for later sections of the work including the head-spinning ending. I was lucky enough to create an arrangement of this work for Belwin Jazz (00-30647).





The Levy arrangement was out of print so hopefully I was able to bring new and fresh light on this terrific tune. My version of the work attempts to be as close as possible to the original version but remain within the standards of today’s modern jazz ensemble. The producers of this film could not have found a more appropriate title. _Whiplash_ lives up to the billing as both a brilliant movie and a musical masterpiece.

I highly recommend students and educators step out of the common time “box” and explore odd meters. It is a great way to expand the focus of meter and time in general.

Most importantly, have fun playing jazz!

Erik Morales
http://moralesmusic.com/


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## Mundano (Mar 8, 2017)

http://www.fusionmagazine.org/against-the-odds-an-exploration-of-bulgarian-rhythms/

*Against The Odds: an Exploration of Bulgarian Rhythms*
*Vessela Stoyanova*
MUSIC










The overwhelming majority of Bulgarian folk music happens to be in odd meters–typically 5, 7, 9 and 11, with occasional combinations of those creating 13, 15, 17 and larger. Some musicologists have linked these odd meters to the history of the region’s languages–especially poetry–going back to Ancient Greece. Others connect them to dances, insofar as each odd time signature tends to be accompanied by a specific dance. Indeed, many odd metered song forms are named after such dances, for instance _kopanitsa_, which always implies 11/8. In fact, many accomplished folk musicians in Bulgaria could not tell you what the time signature of the music is; instead, they will refer to it in terms of its dance.

The reason I feel compelled to share this information is twofold. On the one hand, Balkan music is becoming more and more prominent in the US. On the other hand, my command of odd meters has helped me greatly in assimilating difficult prog rock or contemporary classical pieces where odd meters are often used.

Now to be fair–and, alas, to contradict the clever pun of my title–I prefer the term “irregular” instead of “odd,” because many Bulgarian rhythms are technically even, such as 8/8, 10/8, 12/8 or 22/8. However, within a given measure of these even time signatures, you would likely have beats of different lengths. *The Bulgarian word for all of these rhythms would translate roughly as uneven-beat music. *Think about the beats in a 6/8 measure (two dotted quarter notes) compared to that of a 3/4 measure (three quarter notes). If you are familiar with the melody from _Westside Story_, “I wanna live in America” (one measure of 6/8 followed by one measure of 3/4), imagine it as one long measure of 12/8. This is more akin to the beat ratios encountered in Balkan meters, where the dotted quarter beats co-exist with the quarter beats in the same measure in various combinations.

To be clear, I am talking specifically about time signatures in which the denominator is 8 (or in some cases 16), but not 4. That is to say, the beat is not equal to the 8th note, but rather a group of 8th notes. In the west that phenomenon is typically expressed with time signatures of 6/8 or 12/8.

Since Bulgarian time signatures are linked to dances, it is crucial that the music grooves. If this is the first time you’re attempting to feel or play Balkan odd meters, beware treating them as “missing a beat,” which is the most common Balkan groove killer I’ve encountered in the west. 7/8 is not 4/4 minus one eighth note! Imagine thinking of 3/4 as 4/4 minus one quarter note. I don’t think anyone will be waltzing to that. Moreover, if you are used to 4/4 (and the majority of westerners are), chances are your body will automatically revert back to it while playing, especially if you only allow yourself to count in terms of it.

Balkan time signatures can also be understood as subdivisions of 2’s and 3’s. Native Bulgarian musicians don’t exactly think in these terms, but early Balkan musicologists found this to be an effective method of communicating the “uneven-beat” nature of Bulgarian folk music in western notation. And when Bela Bartok visited the region in the early twentieth-century, this way of notating the music became standard. In reality folk musicians in Bulgaria don’t think in terms of 2’s and 3’s, but in terms of short and long beats. The shortness and longness of beats may actually vary from village to village, so the subdivisions of 2’s and 3’s are approximations at best. But we encounter the same situation with swing music in which two 8th notes may be played closer to a dotted 8th and a 16th, or an 8th note triplet, but the actual interpretation is up to the musicians.

*So, the big questions: How short exactly is the short beat, and how long is the long beat? And how can one develop a sense of those lengths without resorting to counting?*

Here are some practical suggestions to help musicians who are inexperienced with Balkan rhythms:


*Start by counting. *For a measure of 7/8, count:* “*One-two one-two one-two-three.” Or, if you are familiar with Indian solkattu: “ta-ka di-mi ta-ki-ta.” Turkish rhythmic syllables would be as follow: “Dum Dum Tek.” Or make up your own phrase in your own language, like “Ripe Red Strawberry.”
*If you are a visual learner,* picture each beat as either a square or rectangle. The square would equal two 8th notes, while the triangle would equal three 8th notes.
And last but not least, *clap along with the music*: Clap your hands together for the short beats; clap your hands on a table or your lap for the long ones.
*Learn the melody, *regardless of your instrument. A couple of years ago I taught my three American stepdaughters a childrens’ song from Bulgaria. They learned it quickly and without hesitation, despite that it was in 7/8. Most musicians and educators, by contrast, tend to want to analyze the meter beforehand. But if you can sing the melody already, learning the rhythm happens much more easily.
Once you’ve internalized the pulse enough to follow along with the music, start thinking of 7/8 as a measure of three beats in which you have one long followed by two short beats. In Bulgaria this is referred to as the “male” version of the dance _ruchenitsa_, and is usually performed at a relatively slow tempo (also known as _Macedonian ruchenitsa_ after the region it is most often heard in). The “female” version is performed at faster tempos and has the reverse structure, with the two short beats preceding the long beat. In some cases it’s so fast that it sounds almost like a two beat cycle, where the first beat is four eighth notes long and the second is three eighth notes long. Obviously that changes the ratio between the beats, but that’s a tangent we won’t go into today. Curiously, you’ll never find a Bulgarian folksong version of 7/8 in which the long beat occurs between the two short beats (although some contemporary arrangements have started doing this). It may come as no surprise that there is no traditional dance associated with such a pattern. Similarly, a groove in 11/8 would be perceived as having 5 beats, where the middle beat is longer, thus creating a perfect symmetry.

A true sign that you’ve internalized the grooves is when you are able to improvise over them without outlining the meter in every measure. Similarly to playing over the bar line in jazz, in Balkan music one plays over the pulse. At the same time the rhythm section players often create their own subdivisions that go against the grain of the main pulse. That may be arranged in advance and agreed upon, or it may happen spontaneously. One typical re-subdivision is playing straight dotted quarter notes against the short-short-short-long beat in a 9/8 measure. Over time a seasoned rhythm section will learn each others’ habits and tendencies and will predict each others’ moves, while the soloists will know what to expect, how far to stretch and when to “come home.”

A good way to practice these grooves until they become second nature is to find some good recordings, make sure you know already what the time signature and subdivision is, and just clap along. Remember, the name of the dance will tip you on what the time signature is. Then move on to songs you don’t know and try to find the beats and clap along.

See the accompanying table of the most common time signatures and subdivisions in Bulgarian folk music, including songs that demonstrate each clearly. I hope you find this useful and enjoyable.








*Paidushko*

*Ruchenitsa (female version)*

*Ruchenitsa (male version)*

*Daichovo*

*Kopanitsa*





Vessela Stoyanova

Assistant Professor, Berklee College of Music

Harmony Department

https://www.berklee.edu/people/vessela-stoyanova



A widely respected performer, composer, and educator, Vessela Stoyanova is a triple threat on the Boston music scene. Born and raised in Bulgaria, much of her original music is inspired by the folk music of the Balkans. Her compositions have been recorded by numerous ensembles and performed at major Boston-area venues including the Berklee Performance Center, Jordan Hall, The Loeb Drama Center at the American Repertory Theater, as well as at many smaller venues around the U.S. and Europe.


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## Mundano (Mar 8, 2017)

http://www.debone.com/MasteringOddComplexTimeSigsAndRhythms.html

*Mastering Odd, Complex Time Signatures And Rhythms*
by Kevin Ferguson
© 2008 Kevin Ferguson/Debone Music

Growing up, the progressive rock and jazz/rock fusion tunes I'd play would sometimes bewilder those in the mood to dance. How could anyone possibly dance to such odd and complex rhythms and changing time signatures? Some of the more famous and simple versions of these include the theme for the TV series and movies "Mission Impossible" (in 5/4), "Take Five" (5/4) and Pink Floyd's "Money" (7/4).

Ironically, in music from other parts of the world, many of the odd and quite complex time signatures, rhythmic meters and patterns are actually derived from the rhythm of the dance the music was developed around. For example, in the southern Balkans (Macedonia, Bulgaria and to a lesser extent in Greece), one finds time signatures such as 5/8, 7/16, 11/16 and combinations such as 25/16 (7/16:11/16:7/16) [2].

SPOILER FOLLOW THE WEBLINK
http://www.debone.com/MasteringOddComplexTimeSigsAndRhythms.html


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## Kejero (Mar 9, 2017)

McCreary likes his odd meters, and has used them in plenty of scores besides Battlestar. Here's some 13/8 for Walking Dead


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## JT (Mar 9, 2017)

Here's one of my favorite odd meter charts. It's in 33/16, we played it in high school. These odd meter pieces are just different combinations of 2's and 3's. Once you get the feel of it, it falls right into place.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 9, 2017)

I think everyone knows this, but in scoring, odd meters are water under the bridge - in fact I wouldn't know how to hit everything without adding or subtracting a beat here or there.

Now, polyrhythms can take a little while to get in your ears, but even they don't necessarily sound weird.


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## chimuelo (Mar 9, 2017)

Making odd meters groove is the juice.
Brubecks Take Five and especially the drum solo.
Mahavishnu Orchestra 10/8 and 12/8 tunes.
Dawn 7/8 by Mahavishnu has great changes and really is a great analogy to Dawn/Journey Up The Rhine by Wagner.

If you have to count its no fun.
At first you must count for analytical purposes.
After you get through an off meter piece twice just wing it.
Once you lock in you're set free from 4/4 3/4 paradigms.

I perform 4/4 for a living.
It makes me race home to set up the rig so I can be dissonant and off meter.
Otherwise I would be chugging Jager or something.

Classical and Jazz saved my life and give me hope someday trends go off meter.
I'd like another year of that.

Got to play Weather Report and Mahavishnu for a year once and it was such a challenge and reward.
It went over like a Reggae Band at a Klan Rally though, hence Tributes becoming popular.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 9, 2017)

I've posted this before, but my first sequencer was Yamaha hardware machine that only let you edit to the bar. So I recorded everything in 1/4 to get to single beats.

After a few weeks of that I stopped hearing things in 4 and 3 - it became free-floating.


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