# Brass Libraries?



## LiamHKW (Apr 12, 2021)

TL;DR: I want to get some quality brass libraries for making orchestral music, and CineBrass and Hollywood Brass both seem like good options. Looking for opinions on both.

(Sorry for the novel in advance!)

As of late, I've been really getting into making orchestral music. And I really wanna try getting a solid arsenal of libraries and other assets to get a pretty realistic sound (so far I have BBCSO Core from Spitfire Audio and Nucleus Lite from Audio Imperia).

I love both of these libraries, but the only thing I'm not suuuper jazzed about is the sound of some of the brass patches in both of them. BBCSO brass has a decent sound and a lot of different articulations to help it sound more real, but sometimes in a full, loud orchestra sound, they can sound a little underpowered/soft next to the other instruments, sorta killing the vibe I want to give off. And Nucleus Lite brass has a bit of a more powerful sound that I like, but also is a bit to trailer music-y for my taste.

Some different libraries I've seen that seem appealing are CineBrass (Core and Pro) from Cinesamples and Hollywood Brass (Diamond) from East West. As someone who doesn't have a huge budget, and the fact that they are both on sale for $199 right now, is very appealing. With CineBrass, I really love the sound of it, though the lack of articulations does sorta put me off a bit. With Hollywood Brass, I think that it has a pretty good sound (but I've heard varying qualities on different demos), but also has a ton of articulations (including some other instruments like Cimbasso, which is a plus). I'm at a crossroads as to what I should go with.

Have any of y'all tried these libraries out? If so, if I were to go for one or the other, which would you recommend? Or, if your opinion is neither, what are some other libraries that I could look for in the $200 range?

_To give an idea of the sort of sound I'm looking for, I really wanna shoot for the sound of the London Symphony Orchestra (see John Williams' work with them on Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith's soundtrack for more of an idea of what I wanna get close to emulating)._


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## Artemi (Apr 12, 2021)




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## Evans (Apr 12, 2021)

Artemi said:


>



Anyone watching this should note this comment on the video page from almost a year ago, from Scamper.



> I made these examples.The Tuba at 2:00 is NOT CineBrass, but Cinematic Studio Brass. At 2:06 it's also Cinematic Studio Brass, the Bass Trombone.The Bass Trombone examples are also not correct. The CineBrass version is Tuba+BassTrombone (there is just this patch) and Cinematic Studio Brass is again Tuba + Bass Trombone playing together.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 12, 2021)

I recommend you also put 8dio Century Brass Ensemble and Solo Instruments on your long list for further research.

Bundle price: $248. They’re still my favourite library when it comes to brass, and include some of the best sounding solo brass samples I’ve heard. The value per $ is huge in any case.









The New Century Brass Bundle for Kontakt VST-AU-AAX Samples & Instruments


The New Century Brass Bundle for Kontakt VST-AU-AAX Samples & Instruments, includes all Century Brass Volumes together in one designed solution.




8dio.com


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## dylanmixer (Apr 12, 2021)

+1 for Century Brass.


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## mussnig (Apr 12, 2021)

Probably more expensive then what you are looking for but I highly recommend Infinite Brass. In particular it's a nice alternative to "traditional" sample libraries, highly flexible and very playable. Also, large range of instruments and the fact that you don't need any keyswitches etc. really speeds up your workflow.

In particular, whenever I find that some other library cannot give me the sound/technique I am looking for, I can usually do it with Infinite Brass.

I guess once or twice per year there is a sale (I don't know the details) and there is also a 30 % EDU discount in case you are eligible.

PS: I'm a hobbyist myself and IB was my most expensive purchase so far - I contemplated for quite some time before buying it. But as soon as I loaded up the first patch I knew I made the right decision.


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## mussnig (Apr 12, 2021)

PS: Since you are looking for a Star Wars type sound, you might want to check out these tracks by @DANIELE






Infinite Series (Aaron Venture) thread


Just added IW to IB. Easter holidays can come to create a new template - again. 👌 How do you guys use the mic mixer or preset mixes? I just found that most were to dry to my liking and lots of brass instruments now only got the ambient mics activated or some slight amount of main mics. Am I...




vi-control.net


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## lettucehat (Apr 12, 2021)

CineBrass from the Native Instruments sale right now, it doesn't get much better than that unless you want a bundle with all the additional small brass libraries they made after Core+Pro. Hollywood is a dead end (I have it, it's fine), Century is great but inconsistent, and you can get a much better deal than the current price later. CSB also great in the price range. Sample Modeling and Infinite will take too much work at the outset to be worth it, but they are great.


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## José Herring (Apr 12, 2021)

LiamHKW said:


> TL;DR: I want to get some quality brass libraries for making orchestral music, and CineBrass and Hollywood Brass both seem like good options. Looking for opinions on both.
> 
> (Sorry for the novel in advance!)
> 
> ...


I've been obsesses with Brass libraries since the start of the pandemic. I've gone out of my way to purchase every one I could so that I can start getting that John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith brass sound. 

Firstly, since the inception of Media Ventures and the way Hans and team exploded on to the scene by use of samples and production chops not to mention the really cool music, many libraries tend to lean in that direction. But, if you lay off the extreme upper dynamic of many libraries which are often enhanced you can get a lot of more intricate brass work done. 

BBCSO--French horns I can't stand. Trumpet has a nice warm full classical sound as do the low brass. I can't seem to get the higher dynamics for ripping lead lines and double tongue from it but I like the sound a lot for brass choirs and really filling up a space. Trumpet can lay down a good melody line and the tbones and tuba fill up a lot of space. 

Hollywood Brass--Great all around. Tough to use. Maybe the update will change that. For 10 years HB gold was my only really modern brass library and it did great. If I had to choose only one brass library it would be HB. I now have HOD and love every bit of it. I may be forced to upgrade to HOOPUS soon but for now I'm chill with the Play version. Trombones are not the best in this library.

JXL Brass -- just got some of the horns and trombones patches. It's got some energy and fire to it. Not very playable but very programmable once you get the hang of it. If you treat the low brass like they were real players it can do a lot of the bread and butter brass stuff really well. 

AROOF brass--limited but surprisingly good. Manages to have a really high quality sound and the low brass patch is very useful. Can't live without it now looking forward to the future of Abbey Road One.

I just got Cinebrass a few days ago. I got Core and Pro. very good sound. I can't comment because I haven't used it. The only reason I got it is because of John Powell. He writes the kind of music I want to write for film and so I'm doing my best to mimic his setup. His is so lean though so I'm not sure I'll be able to rely on just one string library like he is now. That's scary to me. 

8dio Century brass--- Mixed bag of goods. What works really works well. Great horns and I like the ability to place them where I want. Trumpets are great actually. Can do convincing double and triple tongue with just the staccatissimo patches. It's a secret weapon library rather than a main library but it can handle a lot. Low brass lacks a little something that JXL brass has. So I tend to use only trumpets and horns in this library.

Caspian Brass--Very playable and great sound if you get off the default mic settings and do your own mix. Jasper does some really musical programming. Can handle powerful melody lines very will. Fairly agile up to a certain speed but I can't get those John Williams double and triple tongue patches from it. A lot of times since Caspian is so playable I'll do the line on that and either keep it or move it to another library. 

Adventure Brass--surprising little gem. Again you have to go pass the default mix settings which aren't doing the library any favors. Also, you have to do the old school of one track for each articulation but it can do things others can't seem to do. Agile like crazy. Even the sustain patch can do convincing fast passages. I was shocked.


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## José Herring (Apr 12, 2021)

Now I've spent a little time going over Cinebrass. I like it! Can't believe it's taken me this long to get it. Nice dark brassy sound to it. Classic film score sound.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Apr 12, 2021)

I own both Hollywood Brass and CineBrass (Core and Pro), but I have not taken the time to really look into Hollywood Brass yet, so I can't comment on that. 
What I can say is that CineBrass is very solid - it has a nice tone and is fairly comprehensive (if you have both Core and Pro). I just wish it would offer a little more control over the length of the short notes (there are three recorded lengths but there is - at least to my knowledge - no way to further adjust these, for example in seperate time machine patches). Aside from that, the double and tripple tonguing isn't real and does not sound very convincing if you want it to go fast. 
But, again: CineBrass is great and a real bargain for the current price.


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## José Herring (Apr 12, 2021)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I own both Hollywood Brass and CineBrass (Core and Pro), but I have not taken the time to really look into Hollywood Brass yet, so I can't comment on that.
> What I can say is that CineBrass is very solid - it has a nice tone and is fairly comprehensive (if you have both Core and Pro). I just wish it would offer a little more control over the length of the short notes (there are three recorded lengths but there is - at least to my knowledge - no way to further adjust these, for example in seperate time machine patches). Aside from that, the double and tripple tonguing isn't real and does not sound very convincing if you want it to go fast.
> But, again: CineBrass is great and a real bargain for the current price.


Curious in John Powell's template he has Polylegato patches. As far as I can tell the legato patches in CB are just mono patches. I am missing something? Or does he just mean sustain patches?


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## Monkberry (Apr 12, 2021)

Also a CineBrass owner here of Core & Pro. I have other libraries (CSB & Spitfire Studio Brass Pro) but once I bought CineBrass I rarely reach for anything else. I love the sound of the MGM scoring stage also.


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## José Herring (Apr 12, 2021)

Monkberry said:


> Also a CineBrass owner here of Core & Pro. I have other libraries (CSB & Spitfire Studio Brass Pro) but once I bought CineBrass I rarely reach for anything else. I love the sound of the MGM scoring stage also.


Since you've owned it for a while. What are these Polylegato patches in John Powell's template? I can't see any polylegato patches.


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## Hendrixon (Apr 12, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Curious in John Powell's template he has Polylegato patches. As far as I can tell the legato patches in CB are just mono patches. I am missing something? Or does he just mean sustain patches?


In the Settings page of the legato patches you have the option for Mono or Poly (its two buttons there) legato.


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## Baronvonheadless (Apr 12, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I've been obsesses with Brass libraries since the start of the pandemic. I've gone out of my way to purchase every one I could so that I can start getting that John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith brass sound.
> 
> Firstly, since the inception of Media Ventures and the way Hans and team exploded on to the scene by use of samples and production chops not to mention the really cool music, many libraries tend to lean in that direction. But, if you lay off the extreme upper dynamic of many libraries which are often enhanced you can get a lot of more intricate brass work done.
> 
> ...


Curious what you feel is not very playable about junkie xl? I find that library extremely playable. I like to mix it with Abbey road as well. I also have cinebrass Sonore which is great for an older Hollywood sound, blends very nicely with bbc core. But I think junkie xl blends even better especially with abbey road for that bigger Star Wars/lotr sound. The ability to make your own articulation grid via dynamic velocity in the sine player and mic merging is game changing too imo.


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## José Herring (Apr 12, 2021)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Curious what you feel is not very playable about junkie xl? I find that library extremely playable. I like to mix it with Abbey road as well. I also have cinebrass Sonore which is great for an older Hollywood sound, blends very nicely with bbc core. But I think junkie xl blends even better especially with abbey road for that bigger Star Wars/lotr sound. The ability to make your own articulation grid via dynamic velocity in the sine player and mic merging is game changing too imo.


I'm not a wizard at playing while keyswitching so compared to the playability of Caspian Brass I don't find that I can sit down and play JXL Brass. I can program it just fine though. But in general the sustains in JXL have a very long attack time making moving around difficult. The short articulations jump around dynamically too much, ect. So I can't just sit down and play it like I can some other libraries that I have. Many libraries I have I can play around at least on the sustain patch, but for some reason I just can't do that with the JXL I have.


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## Evans (Apr 12, 2021)

JXL Brass isn't as "playable" as something like Caspian or Infinite Brass, sure, but have you experimented with the Polymap capability in SINE? It really transforms some libraries.


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## Baronvonheadless (Apr 12, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I'm not a wizard at playing while keyswitching so compared to the playability of Caspian Brass I don't find that I can sit down and play JXL Brass. I can program it just fine though. But in general the sustains in JXL have a very long attack time making moving around difficult. The short articulations jump around dynamically too much, ect. So I can't just sit down and play it like I can some other libraries that I have. Many libraries I have I can play around at least on the sustain patch, but for some reason I just can't do that with the JXL I have.


Ah I see. I havent tried those other libraries So I guess I’m more used to it. I felt the legato flows pretty nicely and anything I need to fix can be tweaked later. But yeah I’ll usually just play legato and then re record the key switches over the top later, or create my own velocity based/poly mapped patches in the sine player. It’s pretty amazing. U can also decide at which velocity u want the shorts to trigger etc. I love mixing a sustain or legato on the soft layer, long-short marcato in the 2nd/3rd layer, and when I hit it the hardest have it be staccisimo. I can perform the horn piece to ‘The Surrender’ by ennio moriconne in one go and it sounds amazing!


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## Trash Panda (Apr 12, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I'm not a wizard at playing while keyswitching so compared to the playability of Caspian Brass I don't find that I can sit down and play JXL Brass. I can program it just fine though. But in general the sustains in JXL have a very long attack time making moving around difficult. The short articulations jump around dynamically too much, ect. So I can't just sit down and play it like I can some other libraries that I have. Many libraries I have I can play around at least on the sustain patch, but for some reason I just can't do that with the JXL I have.


Have you ever tried stacking patches, like sustains and staccato/stacatissimo? When the velocity determines the attack and mod wheel the sustain/release of the note, damn near any library can be as flexible as Performance Samples.

Alex Pfeffer shows this with JXL trombones in this video where he stacks sustains, staccatos AND stacatissimos and it sounds huge.


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## José Herring (Apr 12, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Have you ever tried stacking patches, like sustains and staccato/stacatissimo? When the velocity determines the attack and mod wheel the sustain/release of the note, damn near any library can be as flexible as Performance Samples.
> 
> Alex Pfeffer shows this with JXL trombones in this video where he stacks sustains, staccatos AND stacatissimos and it sounds huge.



Yeah, I use to do that and it does work. But, I also find it messes too much with the natural balance of the instruments and also in locked players I can't get in to work the short attacks with some filtering so that they don't stand out as much. But, I could try and resample but I'm so sick of doing that.

I'll watch the video though. Thx.


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## ryans (Apr 12, 2021)

I have the original Cinebrass core and it has a tone that is still unmatched to my ears. The room and natural width to the recordings is just excellent. Especially with the shorts.

I have a few other brass libraries plus some private brass samples but I always end up EQing them to sound more like Cinebrass.


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## from_theashes (Apr 12, 2021)

LiamHKW said:


> (Sorry for the novel in advance!)
> 
> As of late, I've been really getting into making orchestral music. And I really wanna try getting a solid arsenal of libraries and other assets to get a pretty realistic sound (so far I have BBCSO Core from Spitfire Audio and Nucleus Lite from Audio Imperia).
> 
> ...


i‘m in that same boat, looking for a brass library to complement Spitfire Studio Orchestra and AlbionONE. Since I purchased Hollywood Percussion Diamond a couple weeks ago, which I really enjoy, I think I will jump on Hollywood Brass Diamond. I mean... yes, it’s an „old“ Library, but it sounds just soooo good! Just listen to Andrew Barraclough‘s demos on YouTube for EWHO: https://youtube.com/c/AndrewBarracloughComposer


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## BenG (Apr 12, 2021)

Own both, love both. Honestly, they are great choices but each has their slight pros and cons versus the other. 

Cinebrass has an amazing and unbeatable sound that sets it apart from all other libraries. (Warm and real) The playability and included articulations are somewhat limited, but should easily cover 85% of conventional brass writing. Also, it is light on resources and uses Kontakt.

Hollywood Brass is a extremely pristine, well-programmed brass library that can cut through a mix with ease. (Dry and clean) It is designed well with a wealth of patches that all balance well across sections. Can be a bit of a CPU/Ram hog.

After switching back and forth for years, I almost always needed up with Cinebrass for its sound despite the limitations. I did build custom multi patches that combined the two but it became a bit too convoluted for daily workflow.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 12, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Now I've spent a little time going over Cinebrass. I like it! Can't believe it's taken me this long to get it. Nice dark brassy sound to it. Classic film score sound.


Is there a huge difference between Core and Pro? I’m thinking about grabbing Pro to go alongside HB.


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## Trash Panda (Apr 12, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Is there a huge difference between Core and Pro? I’m thinking about grabbing Pro to go alongside HB.


Core is focused on sections, while Pro is more solo instruments and some specialty patches like 12 horns.


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## RSK (Apr 12, 2021)

LiamHKW said:


> BBCSO brass has a decent sound and a lot of different articulations to help it sound more real, but sometimes in a full, loud orchestra sound, they can sound a little underpowered/soft next to the other instruments, sorta killing the vibe I want to give off. And Nucleus Lite brass has a bit of a more powerful sound that I like, but also is a bit to trailer music-y for my taste.


I would agree with the others who have suggested layering what you have. You have to be a little more careful when layering brass than doing it with strings, but it still works really well.


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## LiamHKW (Apr 12, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I recommend you also put 8dio Century Brass Ensemble and Solo Instruments on your long list for further research.
> 
> Bundle price: $248. They’re still my favourite library when it comes to brass, and include some of the best sounding solo brass samples I’ve heard. The value per $ is huge in any case.
> 
> ...



This is now in heavy consideration. Right in my price point and sounds great. Thanks for sharing this!


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## LiamHKW (Apr 12, 2021)

lettucehat said:


> CineBrass from the Native Instruments sale right now, it doesn't get much better than that unless you want a bundle with all the additional small brass libraries they made after Core+Pro. Hollywood is a dead end (I have it, it's fine), Century is great but inconsistent, and you can get a much better deal than the current price later. CSB also great in the price range. Sample Modeling and Infinite will take too much work at the outset to be worth it, but they are great.


Yeah that's where I found them! Core and Pro each priced at 199! Hard to beat! 

Only thing is if I did end up going with CineBrass, which version would you recommend me getting? I've heard to start with Core and then get Pro as a sort of expansion, but I only have it in the budget to buy one right now. 

I'm almost thinking about leaning towards Pro, since it's the same price anyway, but would there be anything that I should know that might put me off from doing that? Could getting Pro over the Core potentially take away from the features and overall sound that I want to emulate?


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## LiamHKW (Apr 12, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I've been obsesses with Brass libraries since the start of the pandemic. I've gone out of my way to purchase every one I could so that I can start getting that John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith brass sound.
> 
> Firstly, since the inception of Media Ventures and the way Hans and team exploded on to the scene by use of samples and production chops not to mention the really cool music, many libraries tend to lean in that direction. But, if you lay off the extreme upper dynamic of many libraries which are often enhanced you can get a lot of more intricate brass work done.
> 
> ...


This is so incredibly detailed. Thank you for writing this out!

Right now, the runners up for me based off of what I already know and of these replies are CineBrass and Century Brass. Currently, it's very hard to figure out which one I want to go with, since I can only really get one or the other. CineBrass, like I said in the OG post, sounds great but lacks articulations which kind of puts me off (but only very slightly). Century Brass, from what I've heard, sounds great and has lots of different articulations with great sounding multi-tonguing, swells, etc. Only problem is, (sound wise) there isn't a lot of coverage about it from what I see, especially compared to CineBrass, so really getting to hear it and decide for myself is a bit tough.

So if you were to recommend one to me, given the sort of LSO *Star Wars* type sound, do you think CineBrass or Century brass would be the way to go?

(And not to add to this already really long reply, but, if I got CineBrass, would you recommend that I get Core or Pro? I hear that you should get Core first and then Pro as an expansion pack, but I really only have it in the budget to buy one right now. I'm almost thinking about leaning towards Pro, since it's the same price anyway, but would there be anything that I should know that might put me off from doing that? Could getting Pro over the Core potentially take away from the features and overall sound that I want to emulate?)


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## LudovicVDP (Apr 12, 2021)

I have Hollywood Brass and Cinebrass (Core).
I always come back to Cinebrass, unless I need some special articulations only HB can provide.

But that's probably just my limited ability to make HB sounds good to my hear... And I'm less comfortable with Play. 

I have Core and Sonore... Looking at Cinebrass Pro now... But looking at so many other things too (aren't we all?).


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## Baronvonheadless (Apr 12, 2021)

^^Cinebrass Sonore is that Jerry Goldsmith sound 100% & mixed with the trumpets and horns from Abbey Road one you've got your Star Wars sound. 

I really love Junkie XL tho too, it can be mixed gentle with the right mics and you can shut off the highest dynamic layers. Their Trombones are amazing. Junkie XL naturally is more big, Howard Shore LOTR harsh brass vibes but can be subdued and you can pick and choose certain horns so you don't have to shell out on the whole library. 

If you're on a budget, Cinebrass Sonore, Bass trombone & solo French horn from Junkie XL. Have a little more $$ get Abbey Road One.


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## José Herring (Apr 13, 2021)

LiamHKW said:


> This is so incredibly detailed. Thank you for writing this out!
> 
> Right now, the runners up for me based off of what I already know and of these replies are CineBrass and Century Brass. Currently, it's very hard to figure out which one I want to go with, since I can only really get one or the other. CineBrass, like I said in the OG post, sounds great but lacks articulations which kind of puts me off (but only very slightly). Century Brass, from what I've heard, sounds great and has lots of different articulations with great sounding multi-tonguing, swells, etc. Only problem is, (sound wise) there isn't a lot of coverage about it from what I see, especially compared to CineBrass, so really getting to hear it and decide for myself is a bit tough.
> 
> ...


I wish I could tell you exactly what the right decision is but I won't be able to. 

Cinebrass I just got and just started fooling around with it today. It's not a slam dunk library. It sounds great and obviously it can be used for John Williams type stuff because John Powell is doing exactly that. He also uses Berlin. It's going to take me a while to get the hang of it but I think I it will be worth it. 

Century Brass has a lot going for it but it also has some weaknesses. Those wonderful swell patches some of them just fire off with no control over them. It's annoying. Some you can control. The keyswitching is customizable which is great. The sound can be inconsistent. I'm not liking the low brass at the moment but that might change. The trumpets and horns are really good.

I'm not helping your decision I know. I've been there before trying to find the one library and I just think it's really hard for brass right now.


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## José Herring (Apr 13, 2021)

LiamHKW said:


> This is so incredibly detailed. Thank you for writing this out!
> 
> Right now, the runners up for me based off of what I already know and of these replies are CineBrass and Century Brass. Currently, it's very hard to figure out which one I want to go with, since I can only really get one or the other. CineBrass, like I said in the OG post, sounds great but lacks articulations which kind of puts me off (but only very slightly). Century Brass, from what I've heard, sounds great and has lots of different articulations with great sounding multi-tonguing, swells, etc. Only problem is, (sound wise) there isn't a lot of coverage about it from what I see, especially compared to CineBrass, so really getting to hear it and decide for myself is a bit tough.
> 
> ...


If this helps at all, I just had a thought if you got Cinebrass core and then filled in the gaps with some JXL solo Tbone, Horn and Tuba, you'll be doing great. The only thing lacking would be a decent solo trumpet. You could get Century Trumpet on sale later on.


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## Baronvonheadless (Apr 13, 2021)

José Herring said:


> If this helps at all, I just had a thought if you got Cinebrass core and then filled in the gaps with some JXL solo Tbone, Horn and Tuba, you'll be doing great. The only thing lacking would be a decent solo trumpet. You could get Century Trumpet on sale later on.


That's pretty much exactly what I just said haha! Except Cinebrass core I think Sonore would be good because the solo trumpet on that is pretty great.

Attached is a little mock up I did of a Jerry Goldsmith theme with the French Horn from Cinebrass Sonore and from Junkie XL. Which one do you think is which?


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## Laurin Lenschow (Apr 13, 2021)

LiamHKW said:


> I'm almost thinking about leaning towards Pro, since it's the same price anyway, but would there be anything that I should know that might put me off from doing that? Could getting Pro over the Core potentially take away from the features and overall sound that I want to emulate?


The names "core" and "pro" are a bit missleading, because pro is not "better" than core but different.
If you end up getting CineBrass, you should start with core. That said, you probably will have to get pro at some point to fill out the gaps. Here is what they contain:


Core

- Trumpets Ensemble
- Horns a2
- Horns a6
- Solo Trumpet and Solo Horn, but with Legato only (no shorts) and a rather limited dynamic range that goes up to mf
- Trombone Ensemble
- Tuba + Bass Trombone (playing together)
- Cimbasso + Bass Trombone (playing together)
- Low Brass Pads
- Horns Ensemble Rips
- Trumpets Ensemble Effects
- Full Ensemble patches


Pro

- Solo Trumpet and Solo Horn (full dynamic range and more articulations)
- Trumpets Ensemble with mutes
- Horns Ensemble Chords
- Horns Ensemble with mutes
- Horns a12 (with and without mutes)
- Solo Trombone and Solo Tuba
- Trombones Ensemble Flutter
- Trombones Ensemble with mutes
- Full Ensemble chords
- Full Ensemble Effects
- Monster Low Brass


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## ed buller (Apr 13, 2021)

I have so many Brass Libraries. But Cinebrass get's used the most. There are times when others beat it for a specific part, maybe 20% of the time. 

But it's still the main brass after 10 years !

best

ed


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## doctoremmet (Apr 13, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I'm not liking the low brass at the moment but that might change


Really? Interesting.... there must be better options then. I quite like what I'm hearing in the lower brass sections to be honest. But I do not have the orchestral experience that you obviously have. I also have Century Artisan Brass, containing other instrument ensembles.


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## José Herring (Apr 13, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Really? Interesting.... there must be better options then. I quite like what I'm hearing in the lower brass sections to be honest. But I do not have the orchestral experience that you obviously have. I also have Century Artisan Brass, containing other instrument ensembles.


I can't get them to work right yet. But, I have so many other low brass that I just end up dropping Century instead of really working it. I will give them another shot soon. Give them a fair shake.


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## José Herring (Apr 13, 2021)

Baronvonheadless said:


> That's pretty much exactly what I just said haha! Except Cinebrass core I think Sonore would be good because the solo trumpet on that is pretty great.
> 
> Attached is a little mock up I did of a Jerry Goldsmith theme with the French Horn from Cinebrass Sonore and from Junkie XL. Which one do you think is which?


I'd be guessing I really don't know which is which but if I had to guess the second one sounds like JXL.

I have Sonore too. I'll have to dig into it more now that I have Cinebrass core and pro.


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## Hendrixon (Apr 13, 2021)

Baronvonheadless said:


> That's pretty much exactly what I just said haha! Except Cinebrass core I think Sonore would be good because the solo trumpet on that is pretty great.
> 
> Attached is a little mock up I did of a Jerry Goldsmith theme with the French Horn from Cinebrass Sonore and from Junkie XL. Which one do you think is which?


1. Sonore
2. JXL


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## LiamHKW (Apr 14, 2021)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> The names "core" and "pro" are a bit missleading, because pro is not "better" than core but different.
> If you end up getting CineBrass, you should start with core. That said, you probably will have to get pro at some point to fill out the gaps. Here is what they contain:
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for specifying the differences! It made the decision that much easier. I ended up going with Core with the intention of getting some of the standalone instruments from JXL in the future. Thanks again for the help!


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## LiamHKW (Apr 14, 2021)

José Herring said:


> If this helps at all, I just had a thought if you got Cinebrass core and then filled in the gaps with some JXL solo Tbone, Horn and Tuba, you'll be doing great. The only thing lacking would be a decent solo trumpet. You could get Century Trumpet on sale later on.


I ended up going with Core! I intend to get some standalone instruments from JXL later on (to fill the gaps as you said), but man what a great purchase! Sounds great right out of the box! Really looking forward to messing around with it more. Thank you so much for your help!


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## José Herring (Apr 14, 2021)

LiamHKW said:


> I ended up going with Core! I intend to get some standalone instruments from JXL later on (to fill the gaps as you said), but man what a great purchase! Sounds great right out of the box! Really looking forward to messing around with it more. Thank you so much for your help!



Cool. 

JXL has a great solo horn and a great solo Tbone. I use them a lot. I might pick up the Tuba as well. 

I don't have the trumpets from JXL. But I got Cinebrass mainly for the trumpets because they are great sounding. 

Have fun.


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## Nuno (Apr 14, 2021)

Is it easy to blend Cinebrass with other libraries, like say Spitfire (BBCSO, Lyndhurst Hall) or Audio Imperia?


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## storyteller (Apr 14, 2021)

I think it’s fair to say all of the brass libraries have strengths and warts. If I was limited to one right now, it would be Century Brass. If you get the ostinato and artisan libraries to go along with it, nothing competes in terms of sheer diversity of instruments and articulations. The sound is great too! I prefer to use my own mix vs the premixed A/B choices.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 14, 2021)

storyteller said:


> I think it’s fair to say all of the brass libraries have strengths and warts. If I was limited to one right now, it would be Century Brass. If you get the ostinato and artisan libraries to go along with it, nothing competes in terms of sheer diversity of instruments and articulations. The sound is great too! I prefer to use my own mix vs the premixed A/B choices.


As soon as the ostinati go on sale I’m picking those up to join the regular and artisan samples. Apparently we share a taste for brass


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## José Herring (Apr 14, 2021)

Evans said:


> JXL Brass isn't as "playable" as something like Caspian or Infinite Brass, sure, but have you experimented with the Polymap capability in SINE? It really transforms some libraries.


Not yet. I now have so many damn players I haven't gotten to them all yet. I'll check out the poly map and see if it helps.


ed buller said:


> I have so many Brass Libraries. But Cinebrass get's used the most. There are times when others beat it for a specific part, maybe 20% of the time.
> 
> But it's still the main brass after 10 years !
> 
> ...


A great library is timeless imo. Can't imagine brass will get any better sounding in the next 10 years.


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## Fa (Apr 14, 2021)

Samplemodeling for solos and VSL Dimension Brass for sections is a killer combination: you may create virtually whatever Brass ensemble of whatever dimension and voicing, at any resolution and in any ambience you need.

In my humble opinion there is no competition for precise and realistic composing. If you just need big drama with hyper-wet embedded ambience, then others can work...


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## José Herring (Apr 14, 2021)

Fa said:


> Samplemodeling for solos and VSL Dimension Brass for sections is a killer combination: you may create virtually whatever Brass ensemble of whatever dimension and voicing, at any resolution and in any ambience you need.
> 
> In my humble opinion there is no competition for precise and realistic composing. If you just need big drama with hyper-wet embedded ambience, then others can work...


You can strive for both. You can have precise realistic composing in a big room. The hall is as important for an orchestra as the instruments and the notes written. If you put Berlin Philharmonic in a barn they will still sound like crap. Perfectly executed music but bad sound.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 14, 2021)

José Herring said:


> A great library is timeless imo. Can't imagine brass will get any better sounding in the next 10 years.


Have you had a chance to dive into Cinebrass Core or Pro? I'm curious how you feel it compares to Hollywood Brass. Both are "old" libraries, but I'm considering adding Core or Pro to compliment HB.


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## José Herring (Apr 14, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Have you had a chance to dive into Cinebrass Core or Pro? I'm curious how you feel it compares to Hollywood Brass. Both are "old" libraries, but I'm considering adding Core or Pro to compliment HB.


Yeah, I've been working both Cinebrass Core and Pro into my template the past couple of days. Slow going. Vastly different work flow than I'm use to. 

I was actually quite shocked that even though both Cinebrass and HB were recorded here in Los Angeles with probably the same players, they are completely different in sound. I'm sure the room has a lot to do with it and even the recording mixers, mics, ect....

I'm not sure how well they will blend but in all honestly I've never had a problem blending any library even dry ones. 

I guess now that my samples are so good I'm trying to preserve more of the room sound as possible. I think for me EW Studios is a more transparent sound. Both libraries have a distinct room signature but in Cinebrass it's really A LOT more noticeable but not nearly as reverberant as Air, or Abbey Road or the BBC room or Teldec. Sony just doesn't seem to be that huge.

HB strong point are the horns and the cimbasso, Tuba. The tbones and trumpets aren't as good for me. Though the Tbone blends incredibly well in context which I like about HB Tbones. Cinebrass is just all around great. Hard to describe the joy of going through all the patches and not finding any that are too horrible to use. HB is probably way more flexible but has some patches that just can't be used well. I'm sure that might change with HOOPUS. The 3 trumpet patch in HB though is very good and strong and does blend well with Cinebrass.

I really like them both. I think for me HB I'm more use to it of course having used it forever before I had anything else. CB will take some getting use to but already I'm enamored with the sound of the library.

I'm not helping because I couldn't go without both.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 14, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I'm not helping because I couldn't go without both.


Somehow I knew you say this! 

Thanks for the detailed response, sounds like it's a sweet sounding library. Hhhmmm...


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## jaketanner (Apr 14, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> As soon as the ostinati go on sale I’m picking those up to join the regular and artisan samples. Apparently we share a taste for brass


Hey Doc...I find it strange to have a library with ostinati for winds and brass...how often do you really need this? Brass and wind players would get incredibly tired no? Seems like an odd choice for a developer..LOL


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## José Herring (Apr 14, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Hey Doc...I find it strange to have a library with ostinati for winds and brass...how often do you really need this? Brass and wind players would get incredibly tired no? Seems like an odd choice for a developer..LOL


It depends on how you write it. For wind and brass players you often have to pass the ostinato between players or sections depending because you are right. Doing ostinato for bars and bars is fatiguing. Often when we would get parts like that in operas the players would work out amongst them who would play when and when the other player would rest.


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## jaketanner (Apr 14, 2021)

José Herring said:


> It depends on how you write it. For wind and brass players you often have to pass the ostinato between players or sections depending because you are right. Doing ostinato for bars and bars is fatiguing. Often when we would get parts like that in operas the players would work out amongst them who would play when and when the other player would rest.


True...but how often does this come up in film/TV music? Assuming that's the case here.


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## Fa (Apr 14, 2021)

José Herring said:


> You can strive for both. You can have precise realistic composing in a big room. The hall is as important for an orchestra as the instruments and the notes written. If you put Berlin Philharmonic in a barn they will still sound like crap. Perfectly executed music but bad sound.


Obviously. That's why with the freedom provided by this type of libraries (Samplemodeling and Dimension) you can do everything. If you buy a wet big hall library, it's ok in a big hall. And unusable anywhere else. If you buy a section, instead of component, the section is ok... any other voicing, divisi different section etc. won't be at all.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 14, 2021)

Any CineBrass Descant Horn fans?


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## PedroPH (Apr 14, 2021)

Does Sonore have solo patches? I ask because I don't see them in the patches list at the CineSamples website. And yet I see them mentioned here.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 14, 2021)

PedroPH said:


> Does Sonore have solo patches? I ask because I don't see them in the patches list at the CineSamples website. And yet I see them mentioned here.


Sonore is just sections. No solo instruments. The only thing it does have is a Trumpet 1 mic and you can turn off the mic for Trumpets 2, 3, 4.


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## Rodney Money (Apr 14, 2021)

To give you an idea of how CineBrass blends with live I recently had a performance of one of my pieces played live and then I touched it up with CineBrass and some Spitfire for another client as a demo for another commission. Here it is:


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## doctoremmet (Apr 15, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Hey Doc...I find it strange to have a library with ostinati for winds and brass...how often do you really need this? Brass and wind players would get incredibly tired no? Seems like an odd choice for a developer..LOL


I do not NEED any sample. 

That important nugget of fact being out of the way... the 8dio brass ostinato libraries contain shorts and marcatos of 2 trumpetS+ 4 horns and tuba+2 bones, as wel as tuplets and triplets - and those just sound good and way more real than you could ever achieve playing them in with short articulations. So that is kind of appealing. On TOP of that it has the ostinati, which are also usable as little phrases, and runs that go to 11 and can quickly become weird. So yeah... I concur it is not really necessary. I’m also not that big on phrases, loops etc. so most of the Sonokinetic stuff is “not for me” so to speak. These 8dio ones though are borderline cases of hoarding. Anyway... I wasn’t planning to play in minutes worth of brass ostinatos in my music haha. I hear ya. But listening to the demos, the stuff did click with me.

Also, I am firmly in the “sample VIs are isolated instruments, so you always have to play / compose TO the sample” camp, “and people who claim their sample library based mockups will be neutral and can be replicated by a real orchestra effortlessly” get blank stares from me


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## lettucehat (Apr 15, 2021)

LiamHKW said:


> Yeah that's where I found them! Core and Pro each priced at 199! Hard to beat!
> 
> Only thing is if I did end up going with CineBrass, which version would you recommend me getting? I've heard to start with Core and then get Pro as a sort of expansion, but I only have it in the budget to buy one right now.
> 
> I'm almost thinking about leaning towards Pro, since it's the same price anyway, but would there be anything that I should know that might put me off from doing that? Could getting Pro over the Core potentially take away from the features and overall sound that I want to emulate?


Sorry for the late reply, but people mostly answered these. The Core/Pro naming system is confusing - I'm glad I have Pro but you will be more than fine just getting Core. Pro will be lacking in some basics, even though the fully realized solo instruments and 12 Horn patches in Pro are pretty much essential to many.


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## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2021)

Rodney Money said:


> To give you an idea of how CineBrass blends with live I recently had a performance of one of my pieces played live and then I touched it up with CineBrass and some Spitfire for another client as a demo for another commission. Here it is:



Wow! That is really impressive. For me it's a perfect example that it's not that easy to really write a big sounding and powerful hymn and that for achieving this you need more than the usual "Trailerisms". It doesn't happen often that I click on an example here and then stop reading through the following posts because I was catched by the music. Chapeau! Would love to hear a complete orchestra version.


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## Rodney Money (Apr 16, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> Wow! That is really impressive. For me it's a perfect example that it's not that easy to really write a big sounding and powerful hymn and that for achieving this you need more than the usual "Trailerisms". It doesn't happen often that I click on an example here and then stop reading through the following posts because I was catched by the music. Chapeau! Would love to hear a complete orchestra version.


Thank you so much, my friend, you made my day. Concerning brass I think it has to do with utilizing their contrasting dynamic tonal colors from soft to loud, and really knowing how to use each register of their range. For example, the low range of a trumpet sounds fine when played with other trumpets in a trumpet choir but can sound dull within the full ensemble. Each instrument is different in how it responds. Just simple “stuff” like that.


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## José Herring (Apr 16, 2021)

I want to retract my statement of not liking the low brass in 8dio's Century Brass. I'm forcing myself right now to stick with them and they are responding well to my ideas. Takes a little getting use to but so far I'm liking them. The Tuba and Cimbasso are excellent. The Trombones still trying to get the hang of them.


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## river angler (Apr 16, 2021)

For the most playable/programable and sonically pleasing/blending brass library on the market don't check this out at your loss!...



P.S Don't judge this astonishing library by trying to utilise the terrible Best Service trial player within your DAW! Even the marketing videos on this library don't compare to the sheer inspiration you get when you actually get down to using it!


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## river angler (Apr 16, 2021)

...The only other brass library i would consider other than Chris Hein's would be Orchestral Tools Berlin Brass.

Like Chris Hein it has a straight traditional sound if with a slightly more subdued emotion in the sample recordings which is not a bad thing at all. To my ears it also has just the right amount of ambience baked into the samples in all mic positions for this type of sampling.

There are a few reasons why I never upgraded my Berlin Inspire libraries to the full Berlin orchestra sections but mainly because they have an either or scenario for controlling dynamics (via key velocity or cc) on all samples including sustains whereas Chris Hein offers a combo of both which is superb for striking initial timbre/volume levels then using the mod wheel/volume pedal to crescendo or descendo dynamics! This engine is the same throughout his orchestral libraries and IMO it's how all sustained articulations should be able to be played! Also the range of articulations in CH are less sedate than OT's versions somehow- that's not to say the OT samples don't sound good: they certainly do! It's just that they sound more conservative and that sound remains. CH libraries are recorded bone dry and also without any phase alignment problems which opens the samples up for extreme customisability.

In the grand scheme of things, as a composer looking to keep his own identity/style, I prefer to work with instrument samples that have less of an identifiable base sonic as it opens the doors to making them your own and goads you to pushing your own creative envelope compositionally and sonically.


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## mussnig (Apr 16, 2021)

How does Chris Hein compare to Infinite Brass? Especially when it comes to Ensembles.


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## river angler (Apr 16, 2021)

mussnig said:


> How does Chris Hein compare to Infinite Brass? Especially when it comes to Ensembles.


I'm not familiar with Infinite Brass but what I can tell you is that the ensembles in Chris Hein are total workhorses! However i tend not to use Ensemble patches as I prefer to orchestrate my sections myself rsather than leave it for an orchestrator to do who may end up spoiling the desired overall impression of the composition. The ensemble patches in CH and BOInspire are both excellent - I just don't use them unless I'm sketching a quick score.

For the rest of the library including all the solo instruments I can't recommend the library enough. All the solo brass instruments are absolutely awe inspiring to work with- right down to the solo Euphonium! I have the whole CH orchestra package and the same joy I get from using the brass is echoed through all the other orchestral sections!

CH is fantastic for both traditional classical and modern hybrid film/TV composition- it's just the best of the best IMO!


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## mussnig (Apr 16, 2021)

river angler said:


> I'm not familiar with Infinite Brass but what I can tell you is that the ensembles in Chris hein are total workhorses! However i tend not to use Ensemble patches as I prefer to orchestrate my sections myself rsather than leave it for an orchestrator to do who may end up spoiling the desired overall impression of the composition. The ensemble patches in CH and Inspire are both excellent - I just don't use them unless I'm sketching a quick score.
> 
> For the rest of the library including all the solo instruments I can't recommend the library enough. All the solo brass instruments are absolutely awe inspiring to work with- right down to the solo Euphonium!



Sorry, maybe I was using the wrong word. I meant sections, e.g. 4 horns playing together. As far as I understand they were sampled individually. How "good" does it sound/work if you really just have the MIDI once (without slightly adjusting it for each horn)?


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## river angler (Apr 16, 2021)

mussnig said:


> Sorry, maybe I was using the wrong word. I meant sections, e.g. 4 horns playing together. As far as I understand they were sampled individually. How "good" does it sound/work if you really just have the MIDI once (without slightly adjusting it for each horn)?


If you are referring to the section in the GUI where you can "add players" I find I never need to use it! Another great thing about the library and again a nod indeed to the way it was recorded that you elude to, is that each section only offers 1 or two versions. Because each sample is a single player Chris was able to create sections with judicious alignment of various recording takes to make up "small" and "large" sections. I use either depending on the composition and (hate to repeat myself!) they just sound so musical and are also so easy to blend with other instruments weather those be orchestral or synthetic/hybrid.


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## river angler (Apr 16, 2021)

river angler said:


> If you are referring to the section in the GUI where you can "add players" I find I never need to use it! Another great thing about the library and again a nod indeed to the way it was recorded that you elude to, is that each section only offers 1 or two versions. Because each sample is a single player Chris was able to create sections with judicious alignment of various recording takes to make up "small" and "large" sections. I use either depending on the composition and (hate to repeat myself!) they just sound so musical and poignantly so easy to blend with other instruments weather those be orchestral or synthetic/hybrid.


...Since acquiring CH libraries I realise that his way of sampling bone dry with single players makes more sense as a sampling technique for creating orchestral sections. 

Yes! other developers would argue that there is something that happens when you record a bunch of players together soaking up the room ambience at the same time but at the end of the day you are stuck with that sample performance- something which on more than one occasion has been prone to irritating composers when they come across certain RR's that may contain one of the players not quite in sync or for whatever reason that RR just doesn't work in a mix. More troublesome is when the ambience of the room as leaked too much into the close mics. Admitedly this does not happen often especially with the more meticulous developers out there but beyond this aspect the phase align method Chris Hein has pioneered opens up so many clearer paths to more usable sample instruments on so many levels.


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## river angler (Apr 16, 2021)

mussnig said:


> Sorry, maybe I was using the wrong word. I meant sections, e.g. 4 horns playing together. As far as I understand they were sampled individually. How "good" does it sound/work if you really just have the MIDI once (without slightly adjusting it for each horn)?


... I just re-read your question... I hope my previous reply makes sense! Reading your question back it appears you think one has to physically play four different horns to create a 4 horn section which is not the case!... To be clear there are two ready made sectional patches one larger than in players than the other. On top of them you can reach for add more players and even detune and spread all of them in the stereo field but I have only used it a few times in hybrid orchestral scenarios. The result does not sound like a chorus effect as it would with other libraries that attempted to do this because of the phase alignment! Instead it indeed gives the impression of an even larger section that literally sounds like one! It almost sounds too much though! I don't know what the record amount of french horn players has been witnessed in a real live orchestral performance! but it's there if you really need it!


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## mussnig (Apr 16, 2021)

river angler said:


> ... I just re-read your question... I hope my previous reply makes sense! Reading your question back it appears you think one has to physically play four different horns to create a 4 horn section which is not the case!... To be clear there are two ready made sectional patches one larger than in players than the other. On top of them you can reach for add more players and even detune and spread all of them in the stereo field but I have only used it a few times in hybrid orchestral scenarios. The result does not sound like a chorus effect as it would with other libraries that attempted to do this because of the phase alignment! Instead it indeed gives the impression of an even larger section that literally sounds like one! It almost sounds too much though! I don't know what the record amount of french horn players has been witnessed in a real live orchestral performance! but it's there if you really need it!



Yes, that basically was my question. These ready made sections are still based on individual recordings, right? So my question really concerned how convincing the sections sound.
With Infinite Brass you can of course send the same MIDI data to, e.g., 4 horns. Each one was recorded individually and you can also turn on some humanization. Still, it usually sounds better if each of the 4 horns gets it's own midi data ...


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## Trash Panda (Apr 16, 2021)

mussnig said:


> Yes, that basically was my question. These ready made sections are still based on individual recordings, right? So my question really concerned how convincing the sections sound.
> With Infinite Brass you can of course send the same MIDI data to, e.g., 4 horns. Each one was recorded individually and you can also turn on some humanization. Still, it usually sounds better if each of the 4 horns gets it's own midi data ...


You can stack multiple Infinite Brass/Woodwinds together in a Kontakt instance and feed it the same MIDI data. Playing with the humanization (attack timing), accuracy (attack pitch accuracy) and even changing the tuning by a few cents (+/- no more than 3 cents) does a pretty convincing job of sounding like a full ensemble without doing multiple performances.

If you have a DAW that supports humanization of note duration in addition to timing and velocity, you can run each instance separately and copy/paste MIDI data fairly effectively.


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## mussnig (Apr 16, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> You can stack multiple Infinite Brass/Woodwinds together in a Kontakt instance and feed it the same MIDI data. Playing with the humanization (attack timing), accuracy (attack pitch accuracy) and even changing the tuning by a few cents (+/- no more than 3 cents) does a pretty convincing job of sounding like a full ensemble without doing multiple performances.



Yes, I was refering to this but I find it doesn't work quite as well as full section patches from other "classical" sample libraries. Obviously, the playability is superb - it just doesn't sound as convincing to me if you don't massage the MIDI of the individual instruments. I even did some tests with MIDI CC modulation etc.


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