# Bernard Herrmann Composer Toolkit- Discussion



## JonSolo (Jun 17, 2017)

This seems like a better place for the details, comparisons, opinions, etc., and all other non-official (or not from the horses mouth) discussion.

I had to weed through 10 pages of back and forth on the Commercial Announcements page to find official details...thus this thread.


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## dhlkid (Jun 17, 2017)

I keep asking myself, do I need this?


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 17, 2017)

I doubt it is a question of need...but if you find it inspirational...that's the justifier.


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## Phryq (Jun 17, 2017)

Usually I think these celeb labels are BS, but... Herrmann!!


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## JonSolo (Jun 17, 2017)

Yes I agree. I always liked the Hans Zimmer stuff years ago. But usually "labels" can be meh. This one seems not so much.

The other thread cross mentioned comparisons to other libraries. While I do see some overlap of material (which cannot be helped from a devs point of view when filling the needs of a complete library) it has its own sound and combi patches are definitely new and exciting, at least watching through video I got that.

The question is- do you think this compares to another library out there? Individually or in parts...


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 17, 2017)

As I've probably driven you all nuts by repeating ad nauseum: it's the combinations that truly interest me. Obviously the developers were really driven to emulate the idiosyncrasies of maestro Hermann's repertoire, and to me that's most obvious in those patches. I would be far less interested otherwise...however, I must mention that attitude is probably going to change once we see more walkthroughs

(and about _*that*_ I'm so excited I just had to check my pants!).


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## JonSolo (Jun 17, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> As I've probably driven you all nuts by repeating ad nauseum: it's the combinations that truly interest me. Obviously the developers were really driven to emulate by the idiosyncrasies of maestro Hermann's repertoire, and to me that's most obvious in those patches. I would be far less interested otherwise...however, I must mention that attitude is probably going to change once we see more walkthroughs (and about that I'm so excited I just had to check my pants!).



Exactly this. Add to the combinations some fantastic performance features and this library is ALMOST a no-brainer. What impressed me about the video is something that has become more important to me in the last year- responsiveness. I love a sample library that "knows" what you are trying to get to and does it for you. I know I know I know, it is still about the patches and scripting to get the finest results, but play-ability is becoming the norm with these libraries and for the first time many of them feel like instruments in of themselves.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 17, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> Exactly this. Add to the combinations some fantastic performance features and this library is ALMOST a no-brainer. What impressed me about the video is something that has become more important to me in the last year- responsiveness. I love a sample library that "knows" what you are trying to get to and does it for you. I know I know I know, it is still about the patches and scripting to get the finest results, but play-ability is becoming the norm with these libraries and for the first time many of them feel like instruments in of themselves.



+1


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## Jack Weaver (Jun 17, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> I doubt it is a question of need...but if you find it inspirational...that's the justifier.


I do find that Homay's demo is inspirational. Quite unusual and a nice touch. 

.


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## sostenuto (Jun 17, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> +1


Ha!! Your other post has me scrambling back over to Cornucopia Strings2 as well !!


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 17, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Ha!! Your other post has me scrambling back over to Cornucopia Strings2 as well !!



That one's interesting for the old sound, but I just couldn't find a place for it. Still it's Strezov, hard to go wrong with them.


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## NoamL (Jun 17, 2017)

I think the woodwind combos are unique to this library and sound great.


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## Quasar (Jun 17, 2017)

Phryq said:


> Usually I think these celeb labels are BS, but... Herrmann!!



Yup. Normally I don't pay the slightest bit of attention to famous names attached to any product either. In this case – though I'll never know because I already knew the name of the library before watching the walkthough and thus already had some preconceptions – I believe I could have said: "Aha, Bernard Herrmann." without any labeling.


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## Geoff Grace (Jun 17, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> I love a sample library that "knows" what you are trying to get to and does it for you. I know I know I know, it is still about the patches and scripting to get the finest results, but play-ability is becoming the norm with these libraries and for the first time many of them feel like instruments in of themselves.



I'd like to hear more about this, *Jon*. Your post inspired me to start this thread:

Orchestral Libraries: Fast, High Quality Results?

Best,

Geoff


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## Musicam (Jun 17, 2017)

Wait friends, the next week? coming soon!


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## KerrySmith (Jun 17, 2017)

This seems really great for having the instrument combos recorded at the same time. It never sounds "as good" (easily) when you're layering the different instruments. 

But I also kind of a sinking feeling that some Library Music companies may be putting out "retro" cinematic or "Psycho" albums in 6-9 months.


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## Phryq (Jun 18, 2017)

Why do combo recordings sound better than recorded separately? I'm not doubting, just wonder how logically that can be.

I'm also confused; it was in their 'dry stage?', the video says otherwise. I would've been so pumped if it'd been in an anechoic chamber


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## procreative (Jun 18, 2017)

My only reservation on the combo patches is the same as I had about Albion ONE. There is nowhere that it actually states they were "recorded" together. Its quite possible they were created from mixes.

The special thing about them being recorded together is the room/ambient mics being a mixture of the sound which with instruments that naturally resonate creating sympathetic harmonic vibrations.

But in this case might be irrelevant as its not in a room with much reflections so might not make much difference.

Nevertheless combos are a quick way to audition ideas and a resource friendly way to stack instruments.

My reservation about BH is that having watched the video twice, I am still not convinced there is enough chords/combos/fx vs standard instruments and for some reason the video seems to have spent more time on the latter.

For those that already own a lot of strings, brass and ww stuff and/or Albions, excepting the drier nature of BH is there enough "new" content or is it largely repetition with a slightly different ambience?


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## prodigalson (Jun 18, 2017)

procreative said:


> My only reservation on the combo patches is the same as I had about Albion ONE. There is nowhere that it actually states they were "recorded" together. Its quite possible they were created from mixes.
> 
> The special thing about them being recorded together is the room/ambient mics being a mixture of the sound which with instruments that naturally resonate creating sympathetic harmonic vibrations.
> 
> ...



The chord patches definitely sound recorded together to me. It's worth noting though that in the walkthrough Paul played virtually every patch with the artificial reverb on, which may have presented the patches in a more favorable light but not an accurate representation of just how dry the room is (which for many, including me, is the advantage of the library). 

It would be nice to get a video showing the patches without the artificial reverb engaged.


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## Vastman (Jun 18, 2017)

Will await the more detailed walkthrus others fortunately make for us...Still ticked about the currency penalty for US folks like me and I'm already swamped with orchestral libs and may have reached the burnout point... Enjoy Novo the best of all of them as it has so many creative pathways to explore. Also, I'm beginning to enjoy making my own multi's more and more from all the amazing stuff out there that I already own.

But this is an interesting library... just need to see a lot more...


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 18, 2017)

procreative said:


> For those that already own a lot of strings, brass and ww stuff and/or Albions, excepting the drier nature of BH is there enough "new" content or is it largely repetition with a slightly different ambience?



The BH ambience I think permeates the entire library. I'm hearing a certain set of timbres I don't hear in the other libraries. It's not "just" the orchestration that makes this attractive, I'm hearing a Bernard Hermann air regardless...had I checked out this video with all sound off except for the musical examples I would have thought maestro Hermann soon after its beginning. But that's just me.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 18, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Will await the more detailed walkthrus others fortunately make for us...Still ticked about the currency penalty for US folks like me and I'm already swamped with orchestral libs and may have reached the burnout point... Enjoy Novo the best of all of them as it has so many creative pathways to explore. Also, I'm beginning to enjoy making my own multi's more and more from all the amazing stuff out there that I already own.
> 
> But this is an interesting library... just need to see a lot more...



This, a million times this. I'm mostly sold, but I have a strange intuition that the further video demonstrations will make this a must have.


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## jamwerks (Jun 18, 2017)

Looks like a nice library but not sure anything here can't be done with SSS & SCS (string wise)? If people are actually hearing BH in these samples, wonder if it's just the name and marketing influence?

Curious about the choice of Air Studios 2? Is this their new (drier) room? Sacconi was done elsewhere iinm.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 18, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> If people are actually hearing BH in these samples, wonder if it's just the name and marketing influence?



Well, that's a very condescending view of the people that are interested in this library, including me. And I get paid (well, I can made the rent most of the time) for what I do. Quite a few others here do as well.

Perhaps you could give the above replies to this topic a closer look (not to mention the walkthrough). Looks to me as though these folks know what they're talking about, same with the walkthrough.

No offense or disrespect intended, it just seemed that question wasn't thought out much.


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## prodigalson (Jun 18, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Will await the more detailed walkthrus others fortunately make for us...Still ticked about the currency penalty for US folks like me and I'm already swamped with orchestral libs and may have reached the burnout point... Enjoy Novo the best of all of them as it has so many creative pathways to explore. Also, I'm beginning to enjoy making my own multi's more and more from all the amazing stuff out there that I already own.
> 
> But this is an interesting library... just need to see a lot more...



Can someone explain this penalty for US customers? I am an irish citizen but I'm currently based in New York City. I'm at home in Ireland for a visit at the moment and the cost of purchasing the library here is 409 euro (inc. VAT) which converts to $456. 

If I buy the library in the US, it's $399. 

Where is the penalty for US customers? is it just that EU customers may not have to pay VAT?


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## Quasar (Jun 18, 2017)

KerrySmith said:


> But I also *kind of a sinking feeling* that some Library Music companies may be putting out "retro" cinematic or "Psycho" albums in 6-9 months.



It gives me Vertigo and A Twisted Nerve to think about that too. Though it's good to know It's Alive, we wouldn't want this retro style to become an Obsession, because that would be Dangerous Ground, with too many libraries paying homage to The Wrong Man...


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 18, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Well, that's a very condescending view of the people that are interested in this library, including me. And I get paid (well, I can made the rent most of the time) for what I do. Quite a few others here do as well.
> 
> Perhaps you could give the above replies to this topic a closer look (not to mention the walkthrough). Looks to me as though these folks know what they're talking about, same with the walkthrough.
> 
> No offense or disrespect intended, it just seemed that question wasn't thought out much.



I would think from a develops standpoint it would feel a bit condescending but form a purchasers point it's a reasonable question. I'm sure SF put a lot of time and effort to create the concept and follow through and it's a very nice sounding lib. While a lot of people want less combinations it's the combinations that have the most BH flavor to my ears. The stuff broke out on their own feels like it is covered in spades elsewhere.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 18, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> I would think from a develops standpoint it would feel a bit condescending but form a purchasers point it's a reasonable question. I'm sure SF put a lot of time and effort to create the concept and follow through and it's a very nice sounding lib. While a lot of people want less combinations it's the combinations that have the most BH flavor to my ears. The stuff broke out on their own feels like it is covered in spades elsewhere.



I agree with most of this. As far as the question being reasonable for purchasers, it seemed (due to context within the thread) _specifically aimed_ at the other members here, and it looks to me as though most people are pretty secure that this is indeed a Bernard Herrmann library (minus your admittedly true last sentence).

But any way, I ultimately am not concerned about whether the question was reasonable, considering the number of folks here who have been buying libraries for years and making money with them. I'd put faith in their (and most powerfully, my own) opinions. Too much second guessing happens regularly in forums as a rule, to a degree where I sometimes think they're an integral part of such.


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## Vastman (Jun 18, 2017)

prodigalson said:


> Can someone explain this penalty for US customers? I am an irish citizen but I'm currently based in New York City. I'm at home in Ireland for a visit at the moment and the cost of purchasing the library here is 409 euro (inc. VAT) which converts to $456.
> 
> If I buy the library in the US, it's $399.
> 
> Where is the penalty for US customers? is it just that EU customers may not have to pay VAT?



A good summary, from awhile back on our cakewalk forum, summarized the issue for me nicely: 

_"Spitfire have committed the cardinal sin of EDM retail. They have separate prices for multiple currencies/countries. So US purchasers get Albion One for $449 USD. But the price in GBP without VAT is 332.50GBP. An extra 5.4% at current exchange rates. And there is no way that $449 was arrived at except by "what do we think this is worth in USD". Just like their GBP with VAT price is exactly 399GBP. Then they worked backwards to get the non-VAT price.

In addition since they only take credit cards (they are adding Paypal I understand, but they don't right now) even though they will charge my card in USD, Citibank and Wells Fargo both add a 3% foreign transaction fee because they are based/banked in Britain. Only a small number of credit cards/banks don't have this fee. It is in addition to currency conversion fees, if any. So the total transaction tax ends up being about 8.5%. And I still owe state sales tax too.

If Spitfire wants me to buy their products they need to price them in one currency without any taxes and let the banks/credit card companies compute the fees on that. Their regional pricing plan is very anti-consumer. The odd thing is they had to go out of their way to make it this way. By default most smaller companies do only have one price/one currency for their offerings."_​I'll just add that I was late to the orchestral game and paid top dollar for many of their libraries, when the BP was very robust, and now that it has gotten better and I should be saving some money, relative to the amount I had to pay in the past, they changed their system. Needless to say, I've never shy'd away from something I love...have given up many things for libraries... but it HAS dampened my enthusiasm. Especially since they've stopped selling thru other venues where I could get a bit more of a discount to offset this policy.

Hope that helps...


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 18, 2017)

Or heck, maybe I'm just overreacting to the question because it inspired my own second-guessing.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 18, 2017)

Vastman said:


> A good summary, from awhile back on our cakewalk forum, summarized the issue for me nicely:
> 
> _"Spitfire have committed the cardinal sin of EDM retail. They have separate prices for multiple currencies/countries. So US purchasers get Albion One for $449 USD. But the price in GBP without VAT is 332.50GBP. An extra 5.4% at current exchange rates. And there is no way that $449 was arrived at except by "what do we think this is worth in USD". Just like their GBP with VAT price is exactly 399GBP. Then they worked backwards to get the non-VAT price.
> 
> ...



+1.

I already miss Sweetwater (I would have purchased a couple other SF items besides this if they still worked together, the three payment plan is remarkably convenient).

Spitfire would also be terrific if they allowed Affirm payments.

That said, I can't go without exclaiming my happy astonishment to find with my last purchase that my actual US bank/debit card went through like a knife through butter. Things are getting better now imo.


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## jamwerks (Jun 18, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> ... it's the combinations that have the most BH flavor to my ears


I listened to Paul's walk through but maybe need to listen again. What are the combos that sound so specifically BH?


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## Phillip (Jun 18, 2017)

So to get BH sound you need the combos but don't need the legato?


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## sostenuto (Jun 18, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Or heck, maybe I'm just overreacting to the question because it inspired my own second-guessing.



After your recent 'set' of Posts ..... _and as a rank orchestral/cinematic novice _..... wonder about @ prodigalson Post re. Paul playing Patches with Reverb .. Why would he do this when the Library emphasis is dry/small room ?? Isn't this a bit ??? when emphasis is also 'BH sound'. No basis for criticism, just puzzled.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 18, 2017)

You know...I have to admit, though I was a fan of Hitchcock's movies (seen them all many times since a child), I never really appreciated the sensational music of Hermann as much as when I considered buying this library. I've been digging back into my Vertigo and Sisters vinyl and being knocked out. It's bizarre to me now that his name doesn't come up anywhere near as much as Williams and Goldsmith.

So, thanks @Spitfire Team for helping me get so inspired...without this library coming out, I might never have grasped (and been floored by) this phenomenal master.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 18, 2017)

thereus said:


> I wonder who they'll do next.



*GOLDSMITH! GOLDSMITH! *

rah!


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## procreative (Jun 18, 2017)

In defence of devs over pricing issues I do feel for them over selling to other countries.

The EU in their wisdom attempted to tackle the issue of Amazon, Apple etc using Ireland or Luxembourg bases to sell across the EU VAT free. Their solution the EU VAT Directive, has only punished small businesses.

They not only have to charge VAT everywhere inside Europe whether they are registered or not, they have to account for it and pay it to a scheme call VAT MOSS at their own expense.

Consequently many etailers especially those based in the US have misinterpreted it and put it on everything even incorrectly to business customers who if they have a VAT number should be sold on a self accounting basis.

Many do not realise the new rule only applies if you sell digital downloads through a shop system that is automated (eg the download links are issued automatically). It does not apply to physical goods or where a manual process is involved.

But the extra admin in supporting other currencies and the extra tax accounting burdens are not to be underestimated not to mention the punitive systems PayPal use if there are any chargebacks.


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## sostenuto (Jun 18, 2017)

No helpful comments on Reverb used throughout first video? Not that any such thing is 'wrong' just wondering why first exposure would not be exactly as product is provided ?


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## Quasar (Jun 18, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> No helpful comments on Reverb used throughout first video? Not that any such thing is 'wrong' just wondering why first exposure would not be exactly as product is provided ?


For the same reason that beer commercials on TV show attractive young people partying on the beach rather than drunk drivers getting stopped by the police?

It's a promo, so they obviously want to present it in its best light. Nothing wrong with that, but like any ad, you have to take it with a grain.


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## sostenuto (Jun 18, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> For the same reason that beer commercials on TV show attractive young people partying on the beach rather than drunk drivers getting stopped by the police?
> 
> It's a promo, so they obviously want to present it in its best light. Nothing wrong with that, but like any ad, you have to take it with a grain.



Probably poor wording of my question, but was wondering more if experienced, capable Users (here) feel this is acceptable way to intro product at this quality/cost level .... from a highly regarded source ??


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## jamwerks (Jun 18, 2017)

Some great sounding instrument combos in there, that will be useful to a lot of folks. I agree that "artificial" combos (paired up after the fact) don't sound as good as those recorded as such. Hope all devs will do combos in future libraries, especially all the various WW combos à2 and à3, unisons and octaves.


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## prodigalson (Jun 18, 2017)

Vastman said:


> A good summary, from awhile back on our cakewalk forum, summarized the issue for me nicely:
> 
> _"Spitfire have committed the cardinal sin of EDM retail. They have separate prices for multiple currencies/countries. So US purchasers get Albion One for $449 USD. But the price in GBP without VAT is 332.50GBP. An extra 5.4% at current exchange rates. And there is no way that $449 was arrived at except by "what do we think this is worth in USD". Just like their GBP with VAT price is exactly 399GBP. Then they worked backwards to get the non-VAT price.
> 
> ...



Ok but with respect this doesn't really answer my question. The issue being raised in this summary seems to be more about the fact that the pricing in different currencies seems arbitrary, which is a legit concern. However, it doesn't address the assertion that US customers are being penalized when, in fact, it looks like it's EU customers that are being penalised. At least in the case of BH composer toolkit


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## Quasar (Jun 18, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Probably poor wording of my question, but was wondering more if experienced, capable Users (here) feel this is acceptable way to intro product at this quality/cost level .... from a highly regarded source ??


I probably don't meet all of your criteria for answering, but I think it's fine to try and present the library in its best light, as long is it's an honest presentation of how it CAN sound. A strictly "out of the box" presentation doesn't necessarily say much about a product's potential, and thus isn't necessarily more revealing for real world use than a walkthough that use it bit of verb or whatever.

Though it's not unknown for a dev to bury a library by submerging it in other instruments and effects to the point where you can barely hear it, to me that's not the case here, and a non-issue. SA makes some of the best walkthoughs around, some of which are highly educational IMHO.


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## Quasar (Jun 18, 2017)

prodigalson said:


> Ok but with respect this doesn't really answer my question. The issue being raised in this summary seems to be more about the fact that the pricing in different currencies seems arbitrary, which is a legit concern. However, it doesn't address the assertion that US customers are being penalized when, in fact, it looks like it's EU customers that are being penalised. At least in the case of BH composer toolkit



Whatever. They can charge whatever they like wherever they like for any reason they like. The only people who ever get "punished" by for-profit money games are the poor, wherever we live. If you're rich it's not expensive. If you're poor it is. How much you have to pay relative to someone else in another part of the world is irrelevant, because this knowledge doesn't change the cost for you, or in any way impact your ability to buy it.


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## sostenuto (Jun 18, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> I probably don't meet all of your criteria for answering, but I think it's fine to try and present the library in its best light, as long is it's an honest presentation of how it CAN sound. A strictly "out of the box" presentation doesn't necessarily say much about a product's potential, and thus isn't necessarily more revealing for real world use than a walkthough that use it bit of verb or whatever.
> 
> Though it's not unknown for a dev to bury a library by submerging it in other instruments and effects to the point where you can barely hear it, to me that's not the case here, and a non-issue. SA makes some of the best walkthoughs around, some of which are highly educational IMHO.



Your comments fill the bill nicely. The tough area for me to get across is also the fuzzy notion of 'how' a given composer/producer 'sounds' If SA/Paul feel(s) the reverb is essential to presenting a 'Bernard Herrmann' SOUND ...
then so be it .... My concern is that other Posters have commented on creating that BH 'sound' using other Libraries and perhaps appropriate FX. It raised a concern for me as I evaluate purchase, but simply do not have the chops in these areas to know .


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## Spitfire Team (Jun 18, 2017)

Know I shouldn't really butt in here! But just to point out: the reverb is a very gentle touch of small room that is part of Simon Rhodes' sound when recording in this space. 

It's incorporated into the patches and we think it sounds great, but you can turn it off (as I do in the walkthru to show the effect with and without). 

There is no additional "non out of box" processing *at all* ever in any of my walkthrus - I want to show the thing straight out the box, played live, warts and all. No fancy trickery !! 

Cheers,

Paul


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## sostenuto (Jun 18, 2017)

Spitfire Team said:


> Know I shouldn't really butt in here! But just to point out: the reverb is a very gentle touch of small room that is part of Simon Rhodes' sound when recording in this space.
> 
> It's incorporated into the patches and we think it sounds great, but you can turn it off (as I do in the walkthru to show the effect with and without).
> 
> ...



Au contraire !! ... absolutely cool Post here !!! Would hope Developers would always monitor and participate here as the 'mic' is wide open for any to use ... 
Did not make the initial comment re. Reverb on 1st Video, but quickly wondered about effect on presenting the BH 'Sound' .... which can be somewhat different thru every listener's users ears ? 
Not put-off at all and considering as strongly as ever in next days. 

Your expansion of usage in video is appreciated!


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## Phryq (Jun 18, 2017)

I *looooooove *Herrmann. On the other hand, I don't like the idea of trying to copy someone else's sound. On the other hand, this library can teach us something about orchestration (forcing us to use combos we might not otherwise use). On the other hand, I should work on mastering the samples I own. On the other hand, this is the first dry strings to come out since Dimension Strings / LASS. On the other hand, I'm poor.


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## Jack Weaver (Jun 18, 2017)

Would love to see a walkthru of Homay's demo. Great textures. Really shows how differently and creatively this library could be used. I wonder if she used an overall 'other' reverb. 

.


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## SpitfireSupport (Jun 19, 2017)

procreative said:


> My only reservation on the combo patches is the same as I had about Albion ONE. There is nowhere that it actually states they were "recorded" together. Its quite possible they were created from mixes.



I probably shouldn't butt in here either but I want to make it absolutely clear that the combinations WERE recorded together, that is very much part of what makes these combinations and this library in general special. We would never have faked it with mixes! Ben.


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## procreative (Jun 19, 2017)

SpitfireSupport said:


> I probably shouldn't butt in here either but I want to make it absolutely clear that the combinations WERE recorded together, that is very much part of what makes these combinations and this library in general special. We would never have faked it with mixes! Ben.



Great, thanks for confirming. I would be interested to hear more of these combos as I am intrigued how much is gained from recording them together in that the room used is much drier. 

Just theorising, surely the impact of recording ensembles sound wise is greater where the room/ambient mic positions pic up the natural reflections and sympathetic vibrations? Because in a dry room surely this is negated?

I guess I do not know enough about Air 1 to know how dry, dry is, if you know what I mean.

Is there any chance of a follow up video concentrating on the chords/combos/fx?


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 19, 2017)

I'm starting to freek out waiting for those upcoming walkthroughs/demos...PSYCHED!!! In the meantime, think I'll watch Obsession again.


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## dcoscina (Jun 19, 2017)

I really like the presence of sound on this library. I cannot wait to get my grubby paws on it as many of the sounds from Paul's walk through have inspired some composition ideas in me and that is always a positive sign when a new library is released: does it inspire creativity?


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## JonSolo (Jun 19, 2017)

Phryq said:


> I *looooooove *Herrmann. On the other hand, I don't like the idea of trying to copy someone else's sound. On the other hand, this library can teach us something about orchestration (forcing us to use combos we might not otherwise use). On the other hand, I should work on mastering the samples I own. On the other hand, this is the first dry strings to come out since Dimension Strings / LASS. On the other hand, I'm poor.



I do not know if my policy is a good one or not but when I am teetering on the edge of a matter- I'd rather kick myself for doing something, than kick myself for not doing it.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 19, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> I do not know if my policy is a good one or not but when I am teetering on the edge of a matter- I'd rather kick myself for doing something, than kick myself for not doing it.



The latter definitely sucks worse imo. I've failed plenty of times but hey, I went for it. I'd be a very sad person if I_ hadn't_ just gone for it. Missed things like that can really build into a skyscraper of angst.


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## dcoscina (Jun 20, 2017)

douggibson said:


> I have to say I am with you so far. It looks like a great library. In fact I would say it is actually a really great thing that the two demos on the site don't sound much like Hermann to me. It sounds like a killer sounding library and if it let's composers express THEIR OWN voice with a certain aesthetic ... than that is really great. It means you can get this library and NOT sound like Hermann but inspire your own writing. Bravo to Spitfire for that !
> 
> Hermann sounds like Hermann on any kind of instrumental combination. (as in when HE was writing)
> 
> ...



I agree Doug. While I applaud the demo makers for creating music that isn't derived from Herrmann's composition style, part of me wanted to hear some of those traits make their way onto a demo because the ensembles are screaming for it. I think what's more telling is how some of Herrmann's musical choices just aren't used as much anymore or aren't in the general conscious of most composers these days (like the use of 7th chords or min6).


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 20, 2017)

It might be a similar situation as with Zebra HZ. There are ways, both easy and hard, to get a very Zimmer like sound out of that synth. But ultimately, anyone with composing experience is going to end up sounding like her or himself (though most avoid sounding like themselves-through-a-Zimmer-filter).

I'm guessing it's the sycophantic novices that pick up something like the BH library to sound "just like him"...then get righteously bummed out and broker.

I would hope it goes without saying that the BH library isn't necessarily going to make you sound or write like Bernard Herrmann. However, it seems that it can give you more insight into how instrumental combinations, etc. can be useful toward developing your own style. And, as I mentioned too many times, it gives you a chance to reappreciate a composer who is quite likely right up there with Williams and Zimmer in terms of film scores. And, in BH's case in particular...beyond that genre.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 20, 2017)

thereus said:


> How would you compose without 7ths?



I'm curious as to that as well. I don't think either of us are being facetious.


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## dcoscina (Jun 20, 2017)

thereus said:


> How would you compose without 7ths?


I hear a lot of triadic based material and very little major 7th chords. Even minor 7ths and perish the thought of using a min 7 flat 5, something Williams used to employ a lot of as a means t get back to a home key for his themes. 

Maybe there just aren't as many jazzers out there anymore...sniff sniff.


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## Musicam (Jun 20, 2017)

thereus said:


> 186742 samples. This is not a small library.


How do you know?


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## ed buller (Jun 20, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> You know...I have to admit, though I was a fan of Hitchcock's movies (seen them all many times since a child), I never really appreciated the sensational music of Hermann as much as when I considered buying this library. I've been digging back into my Vertigo and Sisters vinyl and being knocked out. It's bizarre to me now that his name doesn't come up anywhere near as much as Williams and Goldsmith.
> 
> So, thanks @Spitfire Team for helping me get so inspired...without this library coming out, I might never have grasped (and been floored by) this phenomenal master.




Bernard Hermann was one of the greatest Hollywood composers full stop. His legacy is built on a surprisingly small number of scores ( although it did begin with Citizen Kane ). He was pretty much Hollywoods first minimalist ( A position I feel MR Zimmer has expanded on particularly well ) but wasn't shy of the odd kitchen sink moment ( another trait shared by the man from Frankfurt ) . He invented the SC-FI genre with "The day the Earth stood Still" back in the fifties. 

As intriguing as the is Library is ( and i'm sure it will sound wonderful ) I am not sure i'm convinced that this fantastic composer can be represented by a sample library . So much of BH's style and approach is because of his simple approach to harmony ( mostly triadic) and repetition. Playing the same chords in various configurations and at different registers....or his unique approach to rhythms. I urge anyone who does buy this library ( and it will probably include ME ! ) to listen at length and study :


The day The Earth Stood Still
Journey To The Center Of The Earth
North By Northwest
The Seventh Voyage Of Sinbad
Psycho
Citizen Kane
Cape Fear
Fahrenheit 451

and perhaps read:

Heart at fires center



you wont regret it 


Best

e


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## Musicam (Jun 20, 2017)

thereus said:


> I'm psychic


I am musician


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## sostenuto (Jun 20, 2017)

ed buller said:


> Bernard Hermann was one of the greatest Hollywood composers full stop. His legacy is built on a surprisingly small number of scores ( although it did begin with Citizen Kane ). He was pretty much Hollywoods first minimalist ( A position I feel MR Zimmer has expanded on particularly well ) but wasn't shy of the odd kitchen sink moment ( another trait shared by the man from Frankfurt ) . He invented the SC-FI genre with "The day the Earth stood Still" back in the fifties.
> 
> As intriguing as the is Library is ( and i'm sure it will sound wonderful ) I am not sure i'm convinced that this fantastic composer can be represented by a sample library . So much of BH's style and approach is because of his simple approach to harmony ( mostly triadic) and repetition. Playing the same chords in various configurations and at different registers....or his unique approach to rhythms. I urge anyone who does buy this library ( and it will probably include ME ! ) to listen at length and study :
> 
> ...




Super and relevant Post IMHO !!!  A highly capable Spitfire Audio has started down another new path and ... for some early-days orchestral/cinematic _learners_, it's either keep going back to earlier SA creations, OR start looking for alternate and improved Libraries.
BT Phobos remains a large ?? waiting for future enhancements. Now, BH Composer Tools, which remains unreleased ...........
Dunno what other serious 'buyers' do, but for me it's either wait, or restart research on other top-level sources. _Startling_ how much enthusiasm builds with only minimal exposure to reality.
Let's see what another month or so brings in terms of this new 'release' versus benchmarks now getting longer-in-tooth. every day (Albions, others).

Thank-you for sobering words !!


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## ccarreira (Jun 20, 2017)

thereus said:


> I wonder who they'll do next.



Ennio Morricone?


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## ccarreira (Jun 20, 2017)

I think the value of this library is the sonic kit they provide in just one package, wind, strings, brass normal articulations wit lot of sound character, fx, combos, chords, Synths and percussion.

It's like a lego kit, the city, with cars, homes, the hospital, police, airport etc etc.

You just need this one. Imo it could be called Albion VI.


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## Musicam (Jun 20, 2017)

Yes, I agree. Its BH toolkit but I prefer to say: BH 1


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## sostenuto (Jun 20, 2017)

ccarreira said:


> I think the value of this library is the sonic kit they provide in just one package, wind, strings, brass normal articulations wit lot of sound character, fx, combos, chords, Synths and percussion.
> 
> It's like a lego kit, the city, with cars, homes, the hospital, police, airport etc etc.
> 
> You just need this one. Imo it could be called Albion VI.



Tryin to listen, absorb ...... yet _without_ this new offering, was likely to start the Albions trek with Albion One. 
NOW, if BH Composers Tools becomes the starting point ..... remaining Albions age, and may never get back to them ...... well, not at current cost(s). Need to chill a bit and see how this sorts.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 20, 2017)

ed buller said:


> Bernard Hermann was one of the greatest Hollywood composers full stop. His legacy is built on a surprisingly small number of scores ( although it did begin with Citizen Kane ). He was pretty much Hollywoods first minimalist ( A position I feel MR Zimmer has expanded on particularly well ) but wasn't shy of the odd kitchen sink moment ( another trait shared by the man from Frankfurt ) . He invented the SC-FI genre with "The day the Earth stood Still" back in the fifties.
> 
> As intriguing as the is Library is ( and i'm sure it will sound wonderful ) I am not sure i'm convinced that this fantastic composer can be represented by a sample library . So much of BH's style and approach is because of his simple approach to harmony ( mostly triadic) and repetition. Playing the same chords in various configurations and at different registers....or his unique approach to rhythms. I urge anyone who does buy this library ( and it will probably include ME ! ) to listen at length and study :
> 
> ...




Vertigo

Obsession

The Ghost and Mrs. Muir

All of the above, with Vertigo perhaps his finest hour. Especially in terms of the way the score enhanced the movie. During one scene, we follow the female lead from a museum to cemetary, all the while all we can hear is Hermann's music. And it's fantastic music, in some ways maybe even the best part of the movie imo.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 20, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> I hear a lot of triadic based material and very little major 7th chords. Even minor 7ths and perish the thought of using a min 7 flat 5, something Williams used to employ a lot of as a means t get back to a home key for his themes.
> 
> Maybe there just aren't as many jazzers out there anymore...sniff sniff.





ccarreira said:


> I think the value of this library is the sonic kit they provide in just one package, wind, strings, brass normal articulations wit lot of sound character, fx, combos, chords, Synths and percussion.
> 
> It's like a lego kit, the city, with cars, homes, the hospital, police, airport etc etc.
> 
> You just need this one. Imo it could be called Albion VI.



I'm for this. To me it's actually Albion V, which I doubt I'll pick up (I'm finding incredible pads and frostiness from the EVO Grids...and then some). Plus it seems to follow the lineage: the Albions seem to get more niche as the numbers go up.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 20, 2017)

douggibson said:


> Yes, it does appear it was much easier to follow someone without being noticed back in those days. Good thing she never turned around. It's a classic scene, and somewhat absurd at the same time. The score is the stuff of legends.



I'm guessing you remember this, but there was good reason why she didn't turn around. I don't want to spoil it though for the (lucky) folks whom haven't seen it yet.


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## nulautre (Jun 20, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> I'm guessing you remember this, but there was good reason why she didn't turn around. I don't want to spoil it though for the (lucky) folks whom haven't seen it yet.


Not spoiling a 59 year old movie... YOU are the hero the internet needs!


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## dpasdernick (Jun 20, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> Exactly this. Add to the combinations some fantastic performance features and this library is ALMOST a no-brainer. What impressed me about the video is something that has become more important to me in the last year- responsiveness. I love a sample library that "knows" what you are trying to get to and does it for you. I know I know I know, it is still about the patches and scripting to get the finest results, but play-ability is becoming the norm with these libraries and for the first time many of them feel like instruments in of themselves.



I've never had a sample library "know" what I am trying to do. In fact when I use East West Choirs they actually sing "What the f*ck are you trying to do?!" (in votox of course) It's just like my bank account that doesn't know I'm trying to be rich...


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 20, 2017)

Vertigo is my favourite score, and BH is my favourite film composer. That said, I picked up Arnalds' EVO today - magical!


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## Michael Antrum (Jun 21, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> I'm guessing you remember this, but there was good reason why she didn't turn around. I don't want to spoil it though for the (lucky) folks whom haven't seen it yet.



The butler did it


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

thereus said:


> Well, I'll go first.
> 
> I am not instantly in love with this library. There are some gorgeous sounding toys in there, but somehow it's adding up to less than the sum of its parts, for me, at the moment. I'm not saying it won't grow on me.



Forgive me if this is a weird question, but would you say it has a certain overall "sound"? And how would you describe it, please? Really interested.


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## sostenuto (Jun 24, 2017)

Crazy sounding comment from here, but experiencing abrupt fork in the road of choices now, with identical pricing, fine quality, yet massive differences as Sonuscore_The Orchestra has entered. 
~6GB vs ~ 150GB really gets my attention !! Understand much of BH_CT enhanced content, but now some significant contrast ... for some / many ?? IMHO


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## Michael Antrum (Jun 24, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Crazy sounding comment from here, but experiencing abrupt fork in the road of choices now, with identical pricing, fine quality, yet massive differences as Sonuscore_The Orchestra has entered.
> ~6GB vs ~ 150GB really gets my attention !! Understand much of BH_CT enhanced content, but now some significant contrast ... for some / many ?? IMHO



Absolutely, old boy, absolutely......


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Crazy sounding comment from here, but experiencing abrupt fork in the road of choices now, with identical pricing, fine quality, yet massive differences as Sonuscore_The Orchestra has entered.
> ~6GB vs ~ 150GB really gets my attention !! Understand much of BH_CT enhanced content, but now some significant contrast ... for some / many ?? IMHO



If you don't have the Albions for sketch tools, at least Albion One (which works quite nicely and is great for layering with libraries like Hollywood imo), then you could consider The Orchestra. But I would never urge anyone to buy The Orchestra before the former. It says a lot that our very knowledgeable Jay Asher did a complete turnaround in interest (to extreme disinterest) simply delving more into the information available. Jay knows his stuff.

Albion One first.


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## col (Jun 24, 2017)

From the demo's so far the sound and mic options sound really nice but there is a lot of fluff in there
that is partly gimmicky - 12 flutes ....and the combinations can largely be replicated by other means.
Some handy tools for your kit. A standard orchestral lib recorded with the same techniques....


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

thereus said:


> Everything has a wonderful dramatic dry characterful sound. Every element is instantly interesting and colourful. Every element blends with every other. Certainly no question about its sound. My immediate issue with it is its utility. The albions and all the rest slot nicely into a Lyndhurst Hall sound world where I have the basics SCS, SSS, SSW and SSB to work with. This is a bit like the icing without the cake. I want the full orchestral parts that I can compose with and fit these fun elements into. I might be missing something. Don't listen to me...



THANKS! I was getting a little bummed waiting for this verdammt installation to finish. You described just what I wanted.

As I mentioned earlier, it's not just the orchestral combinations that sold me; this library became a chance for me to delve deeper into the musical arsenal of Herrmann, and I haven't been this inspired in months. I've already been doing early sketches of my second symphony with parts written to approximate maestro Herrmann's Musik Ausblick.

Certainly the next time I get a commission from some bottom-scraping independent filmmaker (happens a lot, never comes to much) I'll have an uproariously fun time incorporating this library. 

Spitfire has given us the opportunity to really know the workings of probably one of the greatest composers since Richard Strauss. That gives me ample reason to rejoice.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

thereus said:


> Everything has a wonderful dramatic dry characterful sound. Every element is instantly interesting and colourful. Every element blends with every other. Certainly no question about its sound. My immediate issue with it is its utility. The albions and all the rest slot nicely into a Lyndhurst Hall sound world where I have SCS, SSS, SSW and SSB to work with. This is a bit like the icing without the cake. I want the full orchestral parts that I can compose with and fit these fun elements into. I might be missing something.
> 
> I want to say, "Great. now go back and record the basics, please."
> 
> ...but don't listen to me...



Rereading your well put thoughts...I'm wondering if the Toolkit really is meant mostly to just _*be*_ that icing, and perhaps they recorded it dry so that one could use outboard reverb, etc. to mix with the other libraries.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

I think I'm in trouble. Twice during the actual installation there was a problem with the download. The card reads

"Spitfire_Audio_Library_Manager.LMException" was thrown.

Uh oh. I really hope this doesn't mean I have to download the whole library again. Not good.


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## ccarreira (Jun 24, 2017)

Maybe this library fits well with LCO.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

thereus said:


> oh dear...



You beat me to it lol!

Even more bizarre, after unpacking everything left into the appropriate folders, I realized that Spitfire hadn't sent me a serial number. This has never happened to me before.


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## sostenuto (Jun 24, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> You beat me to it lol!
> 
> Even more bizarre, after unpacking everything left into the appropriate folders, I realized that Spitfire hadn't sent me a serial number. This has never happened to me before.



Honestly feeling bad for your experiences. Trust this will get sorted quickly and easily.

On the 'selfish' side .... hoping SA is pouring massive resources into BT Phobos for the best 'Update' ever !! 

Expect you will get this sorted soon ....


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

Arrgh. I just realized Spitfire support hours don't include weekends. I guess I'll just have to wait until Monday for my serial number .

But hey, the Toolbox just came out and they're probably jammed up with sales. Easy to forgive


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 24, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> I think I'm in trouble. Twice during the actual installation there was a problem with the download. The card reads
> 
> "Spitfire_Audio_Library_Manager.LMException" was thrown.
> 
> Uh oh. I really hope this doesn't mean I have to download the whole library again. Not good.


Try the legacy downloader. Had similiar problems some weeks ago, I used instead the legacy downloader which works..lol..much better on my system here.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Try the legacy downloader. Had similiar problems some weeks ago, I used instead the legacy downloader which works..lol..much better on my system here.



Do you mean Continuata?


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## Iskra (Jun 24, 2017)

Parsifal, you sure you haven't overlooked your serial at the end of the confirmation email from spitfire? I received 2 emails, a thank you one and another with the download instructions and the serial number around 20 mins later. Maybe worth checking twice?
I'm away from my stuff until tomorrow night, so can't report back on download and installation until then...


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

Iskra said:


> Parsifal, you sure you haven't overlooked your serial at the end of the confirmation email from spitfire? I received 2 emails, a thank you one and another with the download instructions and the serial number around 20 mins later. Maybe worth checking twice?
> I'm away from my stuff until tomorrow night, so can't report back on download and installation until then...



I found it! It was in my spam folder...mysteriously. Thanks for making me check back, my friend!


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

Woo-hoo!


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

This is...well, kinda magical and at times outright gorgeous. I haven't delved too deeply yet, just wanted to check in and let everyone know that after two presets I'm writing, WRITING!


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## sostenuto (Jun 24, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> This is...well, kinda magical and at times outright gorgeous. I haven't delved too deeply yet, just wanted to check in and let everyone know that after two presets I'm writing, WRITING!



OK !! When you get Writer's Cramp  ____ and have good 'feel' for BH_ CT .... tell me again that Albion ONE remains *#1* for me before BH_CT ???


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## Iskra (Jun 24, 2017)

You thank me too quickly, seems I have deprived you from some sleep this weekend


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> OK !! When you get Writer's Cramp  ____ and have good 'feel' for BH_ CT .... tell me again that Albion ONE remains *#1* for me before BH_CT ???



I had to stop by because I knew you probably posted, my friend. I'm in total love with this library, I've already sketched out rough cues...I still need to begin mixing it with my other libraries, and as mentioned earlier, looks like my work is cut out for me...HAPPY work 



Iskra said:


> You thank me too quickly, seems I have deprived you from some sleep this weekend



Yes! My significant other punched me on the shoulder because I was supposed to cook supper and couldn't pull myself away from the library. Steak sandwiches were ordered...

Excelsior!


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

thereus said:


> Interesting. What from it are you using that has you so engrossed?



A lot of it has to do with the sound, not to mention just how clever the combined instruments have been...well, combined. Usually when I fall deeply into a library it's because it has a great sound, just a touch ahead of the usual suspects (number of articulations and amount of control thereby, the Great Legato Debate, etc).

A chunk of the reason has to do with timing. As I mentioned I've been all BH music and films for days on end, and writing things in that vein (or at least with shadings thereof). This library hit me at exactly the right time, it has exceeded the expectations by far...it's completely in context to my current musical Weltanschauung.

Finally, I find the multiple mics wildly interesting and useful..._so_ much can be done by mixing and matching those mics, applying ccs/ks. Anyone who hasn't put in much time with the library, try introducing each mic slowly, experimenting with patience. I'm experiencing multitudinous rewards there.

However, I still haven't had time to mix and match with any libraries except for Evo Grid 2, which is shaping up marvellously. It remains to be seen how I can integrate the sounds with a wetter library, but I seriously doubt it will be too much trouble mixing it with the dry EW and Chris Hein instruments. I'll keep everyone updated with my experiments if you like, I've got to get back to my writing!

For under 400 US, the inspiration gained from this library has paid for itself. I'm thinking of all kinds of things it could do to make my second symphony stand out, and I've already been motivated to start a couple of new pieces. This is a sign of the library's quality imo.

Anyway, I'm raving because I'm very, very happy with everything.


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## dcoscina (Jun 24, 2017)

There's some nice tweaking you can do with these sounds as well to make them extend outside the BH sound but still faithful to his compositional credo. I love adding some reverb to the High Strings and a touch of release to get those ethereal string sounds. Very emotive too.


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## s_bettinzana (Jun 24, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> This is...well, kinda magical and at times outright gorgeous. I haven't delved too deeply yet, just wanted to check in and let everyone know that after two presets I'm writing, WRITING!



Help us pulling the trigger. Post some piece of music. We need it!


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## VinRice (Jun 24, 2017)

You're killing me. I'm at 26%. For some reason the rest of the house wants some bandwidth. Don't they understand!!??


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## muziksculp (Jun 24, 2017)

The more I visit this thread, the more GAS I develop to pull the trigger on this library, but I'm not in urgent need for it at this time, although the $100. saving before the special price deadline is a bit of a bugger. 

I'm also tempted to go with 'The Orchestra' at $299. , but that is a price I qualify for at any time in the future. So, I'm not sure what to do, maybe stop buying libraries for a little while might be a wise decision  ?


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## sostenuto (Jun 24, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> The more I visit this thread, the more GAS I develop to pull the trigger on this library, but I'm not in urgent need for it at this time, although the $100. saving before the special price deadline is a bit of a bugger.
> 
> I'm also tempted to go with 'The Orchestra' at $299. , but that is a price I qualify for at any time in the future. So, I'm not sure what to do, maybe stop buying libraries for a little while might be a wise decision  ?



Very different situation here, not having much yet .... @ Parsifal666 advises Albion ONE before either and I'm trying to get the 'foundation' right.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 25, 2017)

I was delightedly surprised to discover just how relevant the synths are to the Toolbox; I suppose I was foolish in presuming they were there so the EDM-volk wouldn't get antsy. One of the most fun things about the synths is the Marshall close mic'ed amplifier. I know I'm not alone in having started out with electric rock/metal guitar here, and I must say the sound of this amp should make any enthusiast smile! In fact, try working with each mic here as well (not to mention the rest of the library), I found eminently useful things from all the mics and combinations thereof.

I've read where people where insisting on this being an "old"-styled library, but I question that. I think the synths really bring home the Cold War darkness of some of maestro Herrmann's music...but perhaps those whom thought the overall library old sounding simply brought that idea with them going in.

I mean, you can certainly emulate the composer's idiosyncracies with this library. But I really can't see where the overall sound of this library seems "old". It just sounds characterful imo.


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## ccarreira (Jun 25, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> I've read where people where insisting on this being an "old"-styled library



I dont understand these people, any violin library is old, and what is modern? Serum wobbles? And whats the problem with being "old" maybe its a good idea to look at old things just to learn a thing or two or more...


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## Brendon Williams (Jun 25, 2017)

@Parsifal666 Thanks for your thoughts, it's nice to hear a user's experience. I have a few questions for you or anyone else who's purchased the library:

-Is the trombone patch in octaves? It doesn't say so anywhere, but it sounded like it on the walkthrough (unless he was actually playing octaves).

-I noticed in the walthrough that while the trombone shorts (and other short patches including trombone) get really nice nasty/cutting for the top dynamic layer, the longs don't seem to get anywhere close to that timbre for the top dynamic. This concerns me, since there are instances where I'd want to go back and forth between the two. For example, a top dynamic line going "bop - bop - bop - baaaaaaaaaaa - bop." Would they match? Hopefully I'm wrong and the walkthrough just didn't quite use the top dynamic layer for the long patch.

-Anything you think is not so great about the library? So far you've only said good things, and I can think of things I don't like for even my favorite libraries ever. Since this library costs a bit more than I'd planned, I'd just like to be prepared for both the good and not-so-good if I go for it.

Cheers!


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 25, 2017)

You can do that with the trombones, which do seem to mostly be in octaves (I am too busy writing to go in deep, apologies).

I haven't approached the library from any sort of exegetical angle and don't plan to (to me that's up to the people who get paid for reviews). My days right now are centered around the manuals, walkthroughs, and the aforementioned burst of writing. So I apologize once more and hope that there will be others going more in depth soon.

What's not so great? Hard to think that when everything I open is working for me, or is being mentally filed for future use. But sure, give me a couple of months with it and I'll find something not to like.

Please keep in mind what I wrote above about the context of my purchasing this library; for me it was awaited for with first a revelation of his magnitude and ensuant, heavy immersion into his music and the way they worked with the films...so I doubt I'd be a very good basis of opinion here (not that my opinion means much anyway).

I hope you and everyone else has a wonderful week!


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 25, 2017)

Before I forget, and with full understanding that I risk extermination by the Legion of Legato Picknitters, the brass and string legato patches are _*excellent*_. I've pushed them pretty hard from different contexts and they can be really liquid.

Okay, now I'm ready for the aforementioned Legion to completely pick apart those patches lol!


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## mac (Jun 25, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> You can do that with the trombones, which do seem to mostly be in octaves (I am too busy writing to go in deep, apologies).
> 
> I haven't approached the library from any sort of exegetical angle and don't plan to (to me that's up to the people who get paid for reviews). My days right now are centered around the manuals, walkthroughs, and the aforementioned burst of writing. So I apologize once more and hope that there will be others going more in depth soon.
> 
> ...



Now this is a man who's genuinely happy with his purchase!


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## sostenuto (Jun 25, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Before I forget, and with full understanding that I risk extermination by the Legion of Legato Picknitters, the brass and string legato patches are _*excellent*_. I've pushed them pretty hard from different contexts and they can be really liquid.
> 
> Okay, now I'm ready for the aforementioned Legion to completely pick apart those patches lol!



Some OT ... BUT ... after adding Albion ONE today .... and for an 'orchestral learner' .... what will be next on the priority list Albion ?? OR BH Composer Toolkit ??  Just getting my head straight ...


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## mac (Jun 25, 2017)

@sostenuto Do you own komplete ultimate? If you do, you're all set to take over Hollywood! Honestly, that's all you need until you _really_ need something that you don't already have (which wouldn't be much).


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 25, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Some OT ... BUT ... after adding Albion ONE today .... and for an 'orchestral learner' .... what will be next on the priority list Albion ?? OR BH Composer Toolkit ??  Just getting my head straight ...



Okay, I finally took a break (I just turned on "It's Alive" for the first time in decades and was really impressed with the maestro's horror scoring. Put it this way: if you're into horror, listen-watch that movie! The music is practically keeping the movie watchable lol!). 

So, you have Albion One (GREAT start btw). If I were you, I'd be going crazy over the manual and walkthroughs, because there's a LOT in there that's best you know to get you where you want. 

To be honest, my friend, I'm not even sure you need another orchestral or chamber based library. Have you bought a first synth (forgive me if you mentioned this already). Zebra/HZ and Omnisphere are both terrific choices, and I personally think you could have one and not the other, they each cover so much ground...Zebra is more work, though.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 25, 2017)

mac said:


> @sostenuto Do you own komplete ultimate? If you do, you're all set to take over Hollywood! Honestly, that's all you need until you _really_ need something that you don't already have (which wouldn't be much).



+100. That and Albion One will take you sooo far. A beginner could do one yee-haw of a lot worse than that.


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## sostenuto (Jun 25, 2017)

mac said:


> @sostenuto Do you own komplete ultimate? If you do, you're all set to take over Hollywood! Honestly, that's all you need until you _really_ need something that you don't already have (which wouldn't be much).



KU11 (YES! & tons of solid content for sure) and KH Diamond Symphony Orchestra.


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## sostenuto (Jun 25, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Okay, I finally took a break (I just turned on "It's Alive" for the first time in decades and was really impressed with the maestro's horror scoring. Put it this way: if you're into horror, listen-watch that movie! The music is practically keeping the movie watchable lol!).
> 
> So, you have Albion One (GREAT start btw). If I were you, I'd be going crazy over the manual and walkthroughs, because there's a LOT in there that's best you know to get you where you want.
> 
> To be honest, my friend, I'm not even sure you need another orchestral or chamber based library. Have you bought a first synth (forgive me if you mentioned this already). Zebra/HZ and Omnisphere are both terrific choices, and I personally think you could have one and not the other, they each cover so much ground...Zebra is more work, though.



Omni2 for long time ++ (Spire, Iris2, Hybrid 3, Repro-1, Synthmaster 2.8 / One). Very high on NI _ Absynth5, Massive.

Most Orange Tree Samples, IvoryII _ Italian Grand


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## Dave Connor (Jun 25, 2017)

Are any of the instruments not layered or are most layered?


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## dcoscina (Jun 25, 2017)

Dave Connor said:


> Are any of the instruments not layered or are most layered?


There are some instruments played in unison like flutes and horns (a8). Percussion instruments are of course solo (though there is also a timp/trombone unison patch which is terrific).


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## Dave Connor (Jun 25, 2017)

Thanks DC.

DC


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 25, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> There are some instruments played in unison like flutes and horns (a8). Percussion instruments are of course solo (though there is also a timp/trombone unison patch which is terrific).



That's a favorite of mine, but I just love ALL the combinations.



sostenuto said:


> Omni2 for long time ++ (Spire, Iris2, Hybrid 3, Repro-1, Synthmaster 2.8 / One). Very high on NI _ Absynth5, Massive.
> 
> Most Orange Tree Samples, IvoryII _ Italian Grand



I think stuff like Massive and Sylenth will never die. They sound amazing imo, and I don't care how old they are.


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## lp59burst (Jun 25, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> <snip...>
> I haven't approached the library from any sort of *exegetical* angle
> <snip...>


Ok... that word sent me to the dictionary... great Scrabble word btw...


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## SoNowWhat? (Jun 25, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> Ok... that word sent me to the dictionary... great Scrabble word btw...


Keep exegesis filed away too. Just in case you have a surfeit of e's (...and aren't at a dance party in the late 90s. Boom Boom).



Parsifal666 said:


> You can do that with the trombones, which do seem to mostly be in octaves (I am too busy writing to go in deep, apologies).
> 
> I haven't approached the library from any sort of exegetical angle and don't plan to (to me that's up to the people who get paid for reviews). My days right now are centered around the manuals, walkthroughs, and the aforementioned burst of writing. So I apologize once more and hope that there will be others going more in depth soon.
> 
> ...


This is the context with which I had understood your posts given your previous writings re what I shall call Explorations in Herrmann by @Parsifal666. Your enthusiasm is somewhat contagious though and it is rather exciting to hear you have generated so much inspiration from this library.
Inspiration. That is the key for me, between a good library and a great one. That can be quite a personal thing though. However, I know that I have seen eye to eye with you on other libraries and developers which makes this all the more interesting. Damn it! I was going to leave this one for a while and now I've come back to it. I mean it's only food right. I blame you and Spitfire for my impending weight loss. 

edit PS - Vertigo is my favourite Hitchcock film.


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## MaxOctane (Jun 25, 2017)

A short demo using Bernard Herrmann. All raw sounds -- no reverb, etc. Just tree mics.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 26, 2017)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Keep exegesis filed away too. Just in case you have a surfeit of e's (...and aren't at a dance party in the late 90s. Boom Boom).
> 
> 
> This is the context with which I had understood your posts given your previous writings re what I shall call Explorations in Herrmann by @Parsifal666. Your enthusiasm is somewhat contagious though and it is rather exciting to hear you have generated so much inspiration from this library.
> ...



Vertigo is awesome! 

I had quite the day yesterday! After leaving the forum to write some more, I received a call from a college film maker (such folks make up the majority of my commissions) who is making a cheapo independent film. After I got over my agent leading someone to call me on a Sunday, I started warming to this director.

The kid is big into Hitch, DePalma. When we started talking about BH the kid asserted that even the "bad" films Herrmann did were worth checking out for his soundtracks. I mentioned "It's Alive" and he laughed and told me that's kind of what he wanted to make: a monster movie where most of the budget went toward the soundtrack (!), and was especially geared toward people who "don't like too think too much" lol! You know, a creature feature where the creature is only shown in adumbrated cuts because....you guessed it, the boogey is Velveeta through and through.

So anyhoo, at the risk of putting you all to sleep (again), I got the commission!  He's interested in a hybrid score that leans more toward the orchestral, so I broke out my synth 'n orchestra template and have already started (and you guessed it...Herrmann_* just*_ got integrated amongst the Spitfire libraries!).

Hope everyone has a wonderful Monday!


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 26, 2017)

A tip: make sure, especially when you're messing with the ensembles, to conscientiously use the dynamics and different microphones. The character (and the way the ensemble evolves) can change with that dynamics slider, at times subtly, at times in delightfully surprising ways.

I think Paul righteously stressed the importance of all the microphones. There are individual instruments and divisi-ish sounds that can be delineated; natural yet vital noises; articulations; quintessentially useable ambiences...all of those variables and more can be exploited by automating the sliders. Without the use of such, the library's worth is sorely diminished. I realize that this could be said for all the SF libraries (especially the EVOs), but here it's mandatory if you want everything you can get out of this library.

Maybe I should work for Spitfire lol!


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## sostenuto (Jun 26, 2017)

This blatant job appl should banned here and forced to SA's COMMERCIAL Thread .....  
Finally getting even for having knuckle rapped earlier .... 

BTW, congrats on the commission !!


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## kaiyoti (Jun 26, 2017)

Brendon Williams said:


> @Parsifal666
> -I noticed in the walthrough that while the trombone shorts (and other short patches including trombone) get really nice nasty/cutting for the top dynamic layer, the longs don't seem to get anywhere close to that timbre for the top dynamic. This concerns me, since there are instances where I'd want to go back and forth between the two. For example, a top dynamic line going "bop - bop - bop - baaaaaaaaaaa - bop." Would they match? Hopefully I'm wrong and the walkthrough just didn't quite use the top dynamic layer for the long patch.



From my experience with the limited Spitfire products I've used, majority of their libraries suffer from this issue. Maybe it's for good reason? Typically I resort to marcato longer samples layered with sustains to deal with this. This library looks like it's missing those marcato's though.


----------



## stevebarden (Jun 26, 2017)

I came across 3 instruments from the Individual Articulations folder that appear to be defective. They show zero bytes when loaded:

e - Low Strings - Marcato Attack
o - Trumpet and Xylophone - Short Muted (Octave)
o - Trumpet and Xylophone - Short Muted

Can anyone else confirm this is an issue?

Thanks.


----------



## Spitfire Team (Jun 26, 2017)

Want to see the screenflow of Andy Blaney's track? 

Here it is... 

​


----------



## Pat Human (Jun 26, 2017)

Spitfire Team said:


> Want to see the screenflow of Andy Blaney's track?
> 
> Here it is...
> 
> ​



Andy is a true VI Wizard. Kudos Spitfireaudio on the library and Kudos to Andy on the Composition!


----------



## Parsifal666 (Jun 26, 2017)

stevebarden said:


> I came across 3 instruments from the Individual Articulations folder that appear to be defective. They show zero bytes when loaded:
> 
> e - Low Strings - Marcato Attack
> o - Trumpet and Xylophone - Short Muted (Octave)
> ...



No, they all work for me. You might have to (ugh) reinstall, and if so you honestly have my sympathies.


----------



## Silence-is-Golden (Jun 26, 2017)

Spitfire Team said:


> Want to see the screenflow of Andy Blaney's track?
> 
> Here it is...
> 
> ​



I saw a post from Andy B recently where he said digital performer is his DAW. This looks like good old Logic X?

http://vi-control.net/community/thr...lkit-available-now.62724/page-15#post-4102980

Just interested, that is all!


----------



## Quasar (Jun 26, 2017)

ccarreira said:


> I dont understand these people, any violin library is old, and what is modern? Serum wobbles? And whats the problem with being "old" maybe its a good idea to look at old things just to learn a thing or two or more...



It was recorded in a golden-age-of-Hollywood kind of studio, and is studio orchestra sized. no? But I agree with you 100%. Time traveling to the 1950s and dealing with a studio orchestra as it existed then would be "old", sort of. But even if you could do that, you couldn't help but bring your 21st century sensibilities with you, so it would be impossible for you to create 1950s music in quite the same way as someone born and native to that time could, no matter how skilled you were at emulating the styles.

All sample libraries are new compared to their material counterparts. It's a whole different medium, and the music will be whatever you make from it. But it will definitely be a product of the times in which you live.


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## nulautre (Jun 26, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> No, they all work for me. You might have to (ugh) reinstall, and if so you honestly have my sympathies.




@stevebarden contact spitfire support! They were able to help me with a patch that didn't download correctly... (to the point where i want to fly to london and buy the guy a pint!)


----------



## dcoscina (Jun 26, 2017)

Here is a short demo of the Herrmann library.


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## rottoy (Jun 26, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> Here is a short demo of the Herrmann library.



This is what I'm talkin bout! Awesome stuff.


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## dcoscina (Jun 26, 2017)

rottoy said:


> This is what I'm talkin bout! Awesome stuff.


Thanks!


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 26, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> Thanks!



@dcoscina you nailed it, my friend. I couldn't help but smile in appreciation while listening.


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## mac (Jun 26, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> Here is a short demo of the Herrmann library.




God, this library sounds so bloody old fashioned 

Great work


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## stevebarden (Jun 26, 2017)

nulautre said:


> @stevebarden contact spitfire support! They were able to help me with a patch that didn't download correctly... (to the point where i want to fly to london and buy the guy a pint!)



I will do that. Thanks!


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 26, 2017)

mac said:


> God, this library sounds so bloody old fashioned



But I'm guessing you might agree @mac..it's in the "good" way.


----------



## dcoscina (Jun 26, 2017)

I think it's safe to say the market is saturated with contemporary Orchestral approaches. Nothing wrong with some contrast eh? Also the old adage what's old is new again. Who knows if we are lucky enough to inspire filmmakers and producers to seek out this kind of sound and Originality again.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 26, 2017)

Very good, Dave, you nailed the vibe. Excellent arrangement. One question: am I crazy, or are there flat horns @ 40secs?


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## dcoscina (Jun 26, 2017)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Very good, Dave, you nailed the vibe. Excellent arrangement. One question: am I crazy, or are there flat horns @ 40secs?


I think that's the trombone/timp playing the Ab in unison with the Low Winds (clarinets, bass clarinet, contrabass clar).


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## sourcefor (Jun 26, 2017)

Do you think if you have all other Major Libraries, Ala LASS, Hollywood Orch, Albion ONE, SAM, would this be redundant or another color in the box?


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## dcoscina (Jun 26, 2017)

sourcefor said:


> Do you think if you have all other Major Libraries, Ala LASS, Hollywood Orch, Albion ONE, SAM, would this be redundant or another color in the box?



No because of the stage it was recorded on. It is a big influence on the end product.


----------



## Lawson. (Jun 26, 2017)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> I saw a post from Andy B recently where he said digital performer is his DAW. This looks like good old Logic X?
> 
> http://vi-control.net/community/thr...lkit-available-now.62724/page-15#post-4102980
> 
> Just interested, that is all!



That is definitely Logic X, and Andy definitely uses Digital Performer. It looks like the standard "Spitfire demo room" (can't remember if it's Christian's studio or not but I know he uses LPX), so I assume that Andy sent over the MIDI so Spitfire could make a fancy video in a nice looking room.

EDIT: Not trying to sound snarky; I genuinely think that video looks (and sounds) really impressive, and I think it looks a lot nicer than just a screencast from DP.


----------



## Phryq (Jun 27, 2017)

I'm thinking about this as my first full orchestral library (I only have oddball instruments, mostly Embertone).

Listening to all the demos, everything's here. I'd much rather use something like this than Albion. Only downside I'm seeing in the demos is it seems not so many legato articulations (compared to Orchestral Tools that lets you legato everything). But there seems to be single instruments for everything in the orchestra, so why can't this make a full template? I'm really inspired listening to this, and even considering ending my teaching career and becoming a serious composer (which will mean moving back with my parents). Anyhow, too much info. 

Still, I love it; so dry, and so... good sounding. And it would be nice to have a full orchestral template. Not everything needs to be legato. I wonder how much RAM this uses to load the full orchestra.



> I think Paul righteously stressed the importance of all the microphones. There are individual instruments and divisi-ish sounds that can be delineated; natural yet vital noises; articulations; quintessentially useable ambiences...all of those variables and more can be exploited by automating the sliders. Without the use of such, the library's worth is sorely diminished. I realize that this could be said for all the SF libraries (especially the EVOs), but here it's mandatory if you want everything you can get out of this library.



Also; I'm generally a "close-mic" composer. I just like dry and close instruments that I can shape myself. Are you saying that without using all mic positions I'll be missing something? It's too bad they can't simply have a mixed-mic position in that case.

My impression was that the close-mics would be imbalanced if you chose only 1 close, but using both together, would keep the instrument balance. Other mics sounded already balanced, although missing some low-end without the close-mics. I think it could sound good using entirely close, or close+trees and some reverb?


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## procreative (Jun 27, 2017)

Phryq said:


> compared to Orchestral Tools that lets you legato everything



Just be aware that in the Metropolis Ark series, unless the instrument list specifically says True Legato, some instruments are using scripted Legato, so when you click that symbol in Capsule you are turning on these and not True Legato. For instance some of the Brass in MA does not have Legato intervals sampled.


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## Phryq (Jun 27, 2017)

procreative said:


> Just be aware that in the Metropolis Ark series, unless the instrument list specifically says True Legato, some instruments are using scripted Legato, so when you click that symbol in Capsule you are turning on these and not True Legato. For instance some of the Brass in MA does not have Legato intervals sampled.



Oh? I didn't realize. What about In Berlin Strings and Berlin Brass? And Berlin Woods?


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## procreative (Jun 27, 2017)

Phryq said:


> Oh? I didn't realize. What about In Berlin Strings and Berlin Brass? And Berlin Woods?



I think most of those have True Legato throughout, I have BWW and that definitely does. But their ensemble libraries only have some sampled Legato, mainly the Strings. Best is to look at the instrument lists on the website as if it lists it as an articulation then the Capsule symbol is using that.


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## dcoscina (Jun 27, 2017)

I think legato is a little over valued. I use a lot of longs or sus patches in various libraries not just by Spitfire and they sound fine to me. For exposed melodic writing or solos, yeah then I use them but I don't think they are the be-all and end-all of sample technology


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 27, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> I think legato is a little over valued. I use a lot of longs or sus patches in various libraries not just by Spitfire and they sound fine to me. For exposed melodic writing or solos, yeah then I use them but I don't think they are the be-all and end-all of sample technology



This is me, never one to join the *Legion of Legato Pick-Nitters*. The sustains and legati in BH all sound great to me...it's always a good idea to double check one's midi entries on this point, as overlaps are a necessity when going for a more liquid sound.

Sometimes I wonder if some people here are far more interested in just debating legato and the value of certain libraries than actually _making music _(the latter being my own priority). I can think of a few folks here (not necessarily this thread) whom I'm guessing put overall very little time into their (quite necessary) studies and actual writing, instead preferring the sense of fun obtained by coming on here and posting about libraries, etc.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with any of the above, none of it's exactly hurting anybody. I guess I just wonder how many here are truly interested in advancing their skills from any perspective other than a sense of community and/or the joy of a new credit card.

Anyhoo WOW that was long winded and ultimately off topic! Sorry.


----------



## procreative (Jun 27, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> I think legato is a little over valued. I use a lot of longs or sus patches in various libraries not just by Spitfire and they sound fine to me. For exposed melodic writing or solos, yeah then I use them but I don't think they are the be-all and end-all of sample technology



I kind of agree and would also add that with some woodwinds such as Flutes, playing a sustain patch monophonically is little different to my ears and sometimes to my ear legato Brass can sound a bit odd as the unnatural slide to the next note sounds like sloppy playing sometimes.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Jun 27, 2017)

procreative said:


> Brass can sound a bit odd as the unnatural slide to the next note sounds like sloppy playing sometimes.



Yes, but that can come in handy...


----------



## muziksculp (Jun 27, 2017)

Hi,

I have been listening to lots of B.Herrmann scores during this past weekend, and noticed that the strings have a very unique character, kind of muted quality, also a lot of the brass.

Did he use a lot of Sordino Strings, and muted Brass in his scores ? or are these normal Strings, if they are not Sordino Strings, then how he did get this unique quality of string sound ? Recording Technique ? or mix of sordino and non-sordino Strings ? or .....

Any feedback/insight on on this detail would be interesting.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## VinRice (Jun 27, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have been listening to lots of B.Herrmann scores during this past weekend, and noticed that the strings have a very unique character, kind of muted quality, also a lot of the brass.
> 
> ...



Acoustic treatment of relatively small stages and the recording technology of the time will also be a factor I imagine.


----------



## nulautre (Jun 27, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have been listening to lots of B.Herrmann scores during this past weekend, and noticed that the strings have a very unique character, kind of muted quality, also a lot of the brass.
> 
> ...


If i remember correctly Psycho especially was mainly Sordino and a lot of non-vib. This documentary was where i got the info from: (so it may be correct or not  )


----------



## madfloyd (Jun 27, 2017)

Hi, I have a question. I'm here because I learned of The Orchestra, started doing some research and found this forum. I've been wanting an orchestral library that has multis such that I can play chords for strings and it will automatically assign notes to bass/celli/violas/violins etc (hence when I found about about The Orchestra I was pretty excited) but I didn't really like the sound quality (timbre?) of The Orchestra and of course just now learned about Spitfire Audio, Albion and this Herrmann library. I'm still digesting but all the Spitfire stuff sounds excellent to my ears.

I'm a total newbie when it comes to orchestral (amateur guitarist/bassist here) but listen to classical music a lot (more so than film soundtracks) and am really looking for something that will both inspire and not be too cumbersome to use. From a usability standpoint, The Orchestra looks promising but as mentioned, I find the sound a little low-fi (it's small footprint no doubt). Does the Herrman library have an arpeggiator or scripting that will use multiple instruments or combos? I've seen some recommendations to start with Albion (which I'm considering) but the walkthroughs I have seen make it seem like orchestral is just an extra and it's mostly cinematic and synth-like patches (I already have Spectrasonics Ominisphere along with other synths). 

I have the next week off and was hoping to try my hand at composing but am torn between this (BH), Albion, The Orchestra. I might go so far as to buy two of them, but not sure yet. 

Any advice?


----------



## Musicam (Jun 27, 2017)

Yes, go for The Orchestra, a lot of programming.


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## nulautre (Jun 27, 2017)

madfloyd said:


> Hi, I have a question. I'm here because I learned of The Orchestra, started doing some research and found this forum. I've been wanting an orchestral library that has multis such that I can play chords for strings and it will automatically assign notes to bass/celli/violas/violins etc (hence when I found about about The Orchestra I was pretty excited) but I didn't really like the sound quality (timbre?) of The Orchestra and of course just now learned about Spitfire Audio, Albion and this Herrmann library. I'm still digesting but all the Spitfire stuff sounds excellent to my ears.
> 
> I'm a total newbie when it comes to orchestral (amateur guitarist/bassist here) but listen to classical music a lot (more so than film soundtracks) and am really looking for something that will both inspire and not be too cumbersome to use. From a usability standpoint, The Orchestra looks promising but as mentioned, I find the sound a little low-fi (it's small footprint no doubt). Does the Herrman library have an arpeggiator or scripting that will use multiple instruments or combos? I've seen some recommendations to start with Albion (which I'm considering) but the walkthroughs I have seen make it seem like orchestral is just an extra and it's mostly cinematic and synth-like patches (I already have Spectrasonics Ominisphere along with other synths).
> 
> ...



I believe most Spitfire Libs have something called "the ostinatum" Which is in effect an arpeggiator for string parts.
I own both Albion One and the BHCT and am similarly a bassist/guitarist who is trying to be a composer.

Both have patches that consist of ranges of instruments (eg "High Brass" might have trumpets, horns, ect all playing at once) Some people like this and some prefer to have them all available as individual patches. As a newer composer these patches suit me fine as they take some of the guess work out of orchestrating (though I'm sure eventually i'll want more control).

It's also possible to load multiple patches in one Kontakt instance and assign them all to one midi channel and have an "entire orchestra" at your fingertips if that's what you desire.

As far as which to choose, that really comes down to your personal aesthetics and what tones you prefer. I really like Albion One, but there is a certain tone in my head that i was never able to wrangle out of it and once i heard the BHCT I knew it was exactly what i was hearing/looking for. 

Hope this helps


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 27, 2017)

nulautre said:


> I believe most Spitfire Libs have something called "the ostinatum" Which is in effect an arpeggiator for string parts.
> I own both Albion One and the BHCT and am similarly a bassist/guitarist who is trying to be a composer.
> 
> Both have patches that consist of ranges of instruments (eg "High Brass" might have trumpets, horns, ect all playing at once) Some people like this and some prefer to have them all available as individual patches. As a newer composer these patches suit me fine as they take some of the guess work out of orchestrating (though I'm sure eventually i'll want more control).
> ...



You're correct on the ostinatum, it's an excellent tool.

The BHCT might work best not just for people whom are Herrmann's enthusiasts, but for folks who want to start out with a different sound right off. I can see where one could go for a pretty unique (in this day and age) style of one's own making, turning the Classic into the Modern.

But...it's just that when talking to folks who want something that sounds really good and certainly can be manipulated into pretty darn expressive instruments, including even some helpful, out of the box orchestration, solid room sound (so one doesn't have to mess with the effects much)...I have to give that to Albion One. An alternative is just paying under 30 US for the East West Composer Cloud, however those orchestral instruments those are typically nowhere near as ready-to-work with as A1 or even the BH Toolbox. The Hollywood series does, however, remain up there with the elite libraries and trust me you will want to consider them heavily as you progress.

If I was just starting out, I'd be voraciously watching walkthroughs of libraries, because ultimately I'm not sure a forum can tell you what kind of music library you want. Because you're you, and chances are you want to express yourself as an individual personality. The video walkthroughs of libraries can be a fantastic resource for helping you decide. There are plenty of nice people here who want to help, but you need to watch and listen first. Just my opinion.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Jun 27, 2017)

Off topic, but it's interesting to me how many people just starting out with libraries are asking about the BHOT, because in some ways it is pretty niche. I had a young guy ask me last week about starting with Spitfire's Evo Grid bundle and I was kind of weirded out.

Stuff like Albion One assures you'll have a really good sounding orchestral library to hold you while you further study composition, orchestration, arranging. The East West Hollywood in a sense is better because you'll have to learn how to apply effects, panning, automation, etc. in order to get the instruments to sit right in a mix. But hey, nothing wrong with wanting a little help in the beginning, imo. A1 provides that...and then, _after_ you gain ground on your knowledge, maybe consider going niche; because after a time you'll know what niche suits your personal voice best, or will be malleable enough to synthesize into a style of your own.


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## madfloyd (Jun 27, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback. I actually bought the EW Hollywood libraries as they came out, but found myself never using them because I was stupefied by all the articulations and having to work with single notes per instance to put string sections together turned out to be more work than I could handle; I kept procrastinating.

I'm an audiophile - meaning I spend a lot more time listening to music on my dedicated 2 channel system than playing instruments or playing with my DAW. I happen to love the drier orchestral sound of classical recordings from the 50's (vinyl!) and while I'm a Stravinsky/Shostakovich kind of guy, I love Herrmann too. 

I'll keep watching walkthroughs. I have the rest of this work week to sort out what I will buy...


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## Shubus (Jun 27, 2017)

Here's a heads up in case you're not aware of it. YouTube channel "FilmScoreRundowns" features a lot of Herrmann cues WITH SCORE......some realized in MIDI.....but expect with the BH Toolkit one could do better.


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## muziksculp (Jun 27, 2017)

nulautre said:


> If i remember correctly Psycho especially was mainly Sordino and a lot of non-vib. This documentary was where i got the info from: (so it may be correct or not  )





Hi nulautre,

Thanks for the video link. I watched the documentary, it was very enlightening, and informative about B.H's works, and orchestrations. 

Yes, Sordino Strings, and non-Vibrato Strings were some of his signature tools to get that unique string sound, I also think that the Mics , Recording technology, ..etc. of that era could also be factored in to achieving that unique B.H sound signature.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## prodigalson (Jun 27, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> Hi nulautre,
> 
> Thanks for the video link. I watched the documentary, it was very enlightening, and informative about B.H's works, and orchestrations.
> 
> ...



Which, I would imagine, is why SF recorded a hefty amount of sordino articulations in a drier, smaller stage, recorded a specific way with vintage mics.


----------



## muziksculp (Jun 27, 2017)

prodigalson said:


> Which, I would imagine, is why SF recorded a hefty amount of sordino articulations in a drier, smaller stage, recorded a specific way with vintage mics.



Yes, I'm sure Spitfire Audio did a good amount of research into what would be the most suitable recording gear, and venue to record/sample this library, they did a great job at capturing that signature BH character sound, which I hear in the videos, and demos. 

Do I need this library ? Still not sure.


----------



## Vastman (Jun 28, 2017)

madfloyd said:


> Hi, I have a question. I'm here because I learned of The Orchestra, started doing some research and found this forum. I've been wanting an orchestral library that has multis such that I can play chords for strings and it will automatically assign notes to bass/celli/violas/violins etc (hence when I found about about The Orchestra I was pretty excited) but I didn't really like the sound quality (timbre?) of The Orchestra and of course just now learned about Spitfire Audio, Albion and this Herrmann library. I'm still digesting but all the Spitfire stuff sounds excellent to my ears.
> 
> I'm a total newbie when it comes to orchestral (amateur guitarist/bassist here) but listen to classical music a lot (more so than film soundtracks) and am really looking for something that will both inspire and not be too cumbersome to use. From a usability standpoint, The Orchestra looks promising but as mentioned, I find the sound a little low-fi (it's small footprint no doubt). Does the Herrman library have an arpeggiator or scripting that will use multiple instruments or combos? I've seen some recommendations to start with Albion (which I'm considering) but the walkthroughs I have seen make it seem like orchestral is just an extra and it's mostly cinematic and synth-like patches (I already have Spectrasonics Ominisphere along with other synths).
> 
> ...



DEFINATELY go for The Orchestra (TO)! It's a fantastic all around general first lib with an elegant GUI and ooodles of creative tools which have been discussed elsewhere...Spitfire's ostinatum generator is fantastic but challenging .. gui is dinky and it does nowhere near what TO does. No other library is this user friendly!

I own a zillion libs...just fell in love and spent gobs of money. They ARE very challenging for a songwriter like me! Even got all but one SK phrase libraries but here again, they are a bit challenging to navigate.

TO...is a joy to use and will inspire loads of creative songwriting without all the "wtf?"'s. NOVO is another recent innovation worth considering (check out Daniel James 2+he livestream) He'll be doing a TO live stream within the week.

I'm not dissing these other truly awesome libs... i ended up with all the Albions, SSS, PS's, Arks, SO, NI, CSS, KH, EW, and many others...but have never had the time to do, let alone learn _how_ to do... what many of the giants on this forum do...

youll learn loads with TO/Novo, write many more songs or get more inspired to learn, and will be in better shape to add things down the road...

Just my 2 cents...or mega bucks...depending on how you look at it


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## Musicam (Jun 28, 2017)

Nothing compares to the sound of Air Studios in London.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 28, 2017)

Vastman said:


> DEFINATELY go for The Orchestra (TO)! It's a fantastic all around general first lib with an elegant GUI and ooodles of creative tools which have been discussed elsewhere...Spitfire's ostinatum generator is fantastic but challenging .. gui is dinky and it does nowhere near what TO does. No other library is this user friendly!
> 
> I own a zillion libs...just fell in love and spent gobs of money. They ARE very challenging for a songwriter like me! Even got all but one SK phrase libraries but here again, they are a bit challenging to navigate.
> 
> ...



I think @Vastman is on to something here. I checked out some of the Orchestra (or, as he puts it, TO) demos and this would probably suit a lot of the same needs as Albion One. Not sure, but I also think it's cheaper.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Jun 28, 2017)

I think I'd happily freek out to see Daniel James doing a BHOT walkthrough. 

In fact, I'm wondering whether there will be anymore for this library? @Spitfire Team


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## Phryq (Jun 28, 2017)

Ok, so suppose an experienced composer who doesn't own any libraries, and having a choice between

A - Orchestral Tools Strings/Brass/Winds/Percussion.
B - Bernard Herrmann Toolkit.

I think option B, even if you're not a Herrmann fan, seems better. Everything is already meant to work together (whereas option A is a mix of different libraries, meant to work together, but really not as well as something like this toolkit will).


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 28, 2017)

Phryq said:


> Ok, so suppose an experienced composer who doesn't own any libraries, and having a choice between
> 
> A - Orchestral Tools Strings/Brass/Winds/Percussion.
> B - Bernard Herrmann Toolkit.
> ...



Given your context I have to agree. That said, OT makes some freakily great libraries imo.


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## sostenuto (Jun 28, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> I think @Vastman is on to something here. I checked out some of the Orchestra (or, as he puts it, TO) demos and this would probably suit a lot of the same needs as Albion One. Not sure, but I also think it's cheaper.



Seems like great potential, but waaay early to get a solid perspective ?? For one with minimal Libraries so far, Albion ONE feels like far less risky choice and solid foundation 'brick' to put in place. _Fortunately _... SA EDU pricing makes cost comparable. 
TO is tempting, for sure, but not 'today'. Even BH OT seems the more 'conservative' choice .... for Learner (me).


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 28, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Seems like great potential, but waaay early to get a solid perspective ?? For one with minimal Libraries so far, Albion ONE feels like far less risky choice and solid foundation 'brick' to put in place. _Fortunately _... SA EDU pricing makes cost comparable.
> TO is tempting, for sure, but not 'today'. Even BH OT seems the more 'conservative' choice .... for Learner (me).



Well, you know my perspective on A1. However Vastman's post made me take a closer look at TO, and it does look good for people relatively starting out. All I know though is A1, and yes it's a very solid choice. Hard to go wrong with the latter, as you intimated its quality has been thoroughly established.


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## Vastman (Jun 28, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Seems like great potential, but waaay early to get a solid perspective ?? For one with minimal Libraries so far, Albion ONE feels like far less risky choice and solid foundation 'brick' to put in place. _Fortunately _... SA EDU pricing makes cost comparable.
> TO is tempting, for sure, but not 'today'. Even BH OT seems the more 'conservative' choice .... for Learner (me).



Well, you're obviously taking your time and reflecting a lot! ONE is a fantastic library... Only you know what will most likely serve you best!

Great time to be jumping in! If I could do it all over again...I'd own a lot fewer libraries


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## sostenuto (Jun 28, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Well, you're obviously taking your time and reflecting a lot! ONE is a fantastic library... Only you know what will most likely serve you best!
> 
> Great time to be jumping in! If I could do it all over again...I'd own a lot fewer libraries



Yes! Waaay much 'reflecting', and surely impacted by comments from capable professionals ... with so much investment, in so many great Libraries. Only makes it tougher, as these new, high quality/capability offerings are introduced ....... My situation is quite different from many here, and this choice is all about picking the best, quality Library FOR LEARNING. That has multi-dimensions, but one key one is to have 'some' *fun* in the process. !!

NI Symphony Series gets me solid, full capability (albeit) dated .... but I sense it will include a fair level of 'drudgery'.  Albion ONE may not be far behind, in this context. TO sounds like the 'FUN' one. BH CT is niche, yet surely a keeper.


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## skythemusic (Jun 29, 2017)

prodigalson said:


> The chord patches definitely sound recorded together to me. It's worth noting though that in the walkthrough Paul played virtually every patch with the artificial reverb on, which may have presented the patches in a more favorable light but not an accurate representation of just how dry the room is (which for many, including me, is the advantage of the library).
> 
> It would be nice to get a video showing the patches without the artificial reverb engaged.



It would be nice if every library was demonstrated without the (often poor) reverb. As a guy who professionally is foremost a mix engineer I have plenty of tricks to wet samples, I need to know if the raw tone is there underneath.

This library is WAY less offensive in that area to me than most others.


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## stixman (Jun 29, 2017)

Remember you cannot sell Spitfire libraries!
SonuScore allow you to re-sell their libraries!


----------



## Parsifal666 (Jun 29, 2017)

stixman said:


> Remember you cannot sell Spitfire libraries!
> SonuScore allow you to re-sell their libraries!



That's one of the most powerful reasons there's a "buyer's beware" factor to Spitfire's libraries. I had to take a lot longer to consider those items in comparison to, say, Best Service...or synths in general (which generally do offer resale).

More than once I sacrificed an EW or SF product toward a product that _did _offer those services, and I can't really blame others in the case of TO vs. BH.



skythemusic said:


> It would be nice if every library was demonstrated without the (often poor) reverb. As a guy who professionally is foremost a mix engineer I have plenty of tricks to wet samples, I need to know if the raw tone is there underneath.
> 
> This library is WAY less offensive in that area to me than most others.



I do generally like the Spitfire reverbs (I prefer the room sound/mics far more). The one for BHOT is pretty darn good imo most especially for an onboard effect. But yes, QL Spaces and Valhalla Vintage are overwhelmingly substituted for the onboard in SF's case.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 29, 2017)

My feedback to the BH Library thus far: Stunning product..


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 29, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> My feedback to the BH Library thus far: Stunning product..



I'm still knee deep into the manual and repeatedly watching the Paul video, which means it's becoming even more exciting the more I delve. This is one of the few libraries I've ever bought where I feel that even the retail/full price is a steal.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 29, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> I'm still knee deep into the manual and repeatedly watching the Paul video, which means it's becoming even more exciting the more I delve. This is one of the few libraries I've ever bought where I feel that even the retail/full price is a steal.



I would not be drawn too much into hyperbole, but I think you won´t regret that purchase.^^


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## Phryq (Jun 29, 2017)

skythemusic said:


> It would be nice if every library was demonstrated without the (often poor) reverb. As a guy who professionally is foremost a mix engineer I have plenty of tricks to wet samples, I need to know if the raw tone is there underneath.
> 
> This library is WAY less offensive in that area to me than most others.



I like that even the trees sound dry, meaning you can use the trees and have everything in proper position, and then control your own reverb. I find dry samples with verb sound better than wet samples.

If VSL were coming out with a new silent stage orchestra, I'd go for it, but as this is fresh, and I love Herrmann... the only thing is certain instruments are missing (clarinet) and so they can only be used pre-layered. Which is cool in a way, but it would be nice if this were really a full orchestra, which it almost is.

Can a full orchestral template be loaded on 32gb of ram (maybe using only trees and close mics); that's my main question.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Jun 29, 2017)

Phryq said:


> I like that even the trees sound dry, meaning you can use the trees and have everything in proper position, and then control your own reverb. I find dry samples with verb sound better than wet samples.
> 
> If VSL were coming out with a new silent stage orchestra, I'd go for it, but as this is fresh, and I love Herrmann... the only thing is certain instruments are missing (clarinet) and so they can only be used pre-layered. Which is cool in a way, but it would be nice if this were really a full orchestra, which it almost is.
> 
> Can a full orchestral template be loaded on 32gb of ram (maybe using only trees and close mics); that's my main question.



I made it with 16. And the BH isn't even on my SSD external card, I have it on my desktop. It's not super fast, but I don't get distracted while waiting, runs really good on my Dell Inspiron.


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## muziksculp (Jun 29, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> My feedback to the BH Library thus far: Stunning product..



I'm guessing you already purchased it. 

If I may ask, what makes it a Stunning Product for you ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 29, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> I'm guessing you already purchased it.
> 
> If I may ask, what makes it a Stunning Product for you ?
> 
> ...



Yes, such comment is very subjective. For me the main is thing the "SOUND" and "Drier ROOM" and how everything blends perfectly together. It just sounds Baboom, clear, punchy, and the spatial projection is pristine and nothing muffles there. Postproduction ole ole good bye. Great. Every single patch has its merit and some patches are just superb (Clarinets+Flutes, Horns, The Timpani but many more).Also what is often critizied are the combined patches, but SFA managed to create a lot of different combinations to cover different situations which gives imo still a lot of freedom to create your own sound and orchestration. I have done a short demo track yesterday evening, if you are interested go and check it out in the members compositions.

And you can do freaking frenetic fast lines & runs with it. I like it when you can torment normal patches and create things with it for what they are not designed for.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 29, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> And you can do freaking frenetic fast lines & runs with it. I like it when you can torment normal patches and create things with it for what they are not designed for.



The legati (from what I've explored) in the instruments has impressed me again and again, and since that's what a lot of people around here seem to live for (laughing), here ya go!

Great post, @AlexanderSchiborr


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## bigisland (Jun 30, 2017)

Hi folks.

I just started to scratch the surface of this beast and while it all seems very powerful I do notice one thing, the synth patches are not velocity sensitive which is a bit strange I must say. The patches themselves are very cool sounding with the different amp options but come on... its not 1987 anymore...

od


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## Lawson. (Jul 1, 2017)

Phryq said:


> Ok, so suppose an experienced composer who doesn't own any libraries, and having a choice between
> 
> A - Orchestral Tools Strings/Brass/Winds/Percussion.
> B - Bernard Herrmann Toolkit.
> ...



Do you mean a single module of the Berlin orchestra? Or literally the entire Berlin orchestra vs Herrmann Toolkit? I would go with Berlin either way. Single module is better than no module, and you can build up your Berlin Orchestra that way. Herrmann doesn't go deep enough in any of the sections. Entire orchestra vs Herrmann is an absolute no-brainer; you literally get an extremely detailed entire orchestra, or an ensemble-based orchestra in the style of Herrmann.

I'm not saying the BH Toolkit is bad at all (in fact I quite like it), but I think it would work best to compliment someone's palette, not be someone's palette.


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 1, 2017)

Lawson. said:


> I'm not saying the BH Toolkit is bad at all (in fact I quite like it), but I think it would work best to compliment someone's pallet, not be someone's pallet.



This is a strong point, but I guess it might depend on whether you plan on writing in a certain niche, for however long. All the intentional quirks and stylings of the BH library could give a person a very specific sound, and of course some find that desirable (which is fine).

But I'm mostly with @Lawson. He mentions the Berlin orchestra, which I'm sure is great (and is apparently indeed a tutti-oriented library), while I would recommend Albion One. Sections or tutti, they are both a great way to get your compositional feet firm on the ground. In my case, I've owned Albion Legacy and One since they came out, and they still serve me terrifically (mostly for sketching, but for layering in final mockdowns sometimes as well).


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## Lawson. (Jul 1, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> This is a strong point, but I guess it might depend on whether you plan on writing in a certain niche, for however long. All the intentional quirks and stylings of the BH library could give a person a very specific sound, and of course some find that desirable (which is fine).
> 
> But I'm mostly with @Lawson. He mentions the Berlin orchestra, which I'm sure is great (and is apparently indeed a tutti-oriented library), while I would recommend Albion One. Sections or tutti, they are both a great way to get your compositional feet firm on the ground. In my case, I've owned Albion Legacy and One since they came out, and they still serve me terrifically (mostly for sketching, but for layering in final mockdowns sometimes as well).



Oh, I literally meant the Berlin Orchestra, as in BBW + BBR + BPC + BST. But I think the BOI (Berlin Orchestra Inspires) would also be a better pick over BH Toolkit for someone with no libraries.


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 1, 2017)

Lawson. said:


> Oh, I literally meant the Berlin Orchestra, as in BBW + BBR + BPC + BST. But I think the BOI (Berlin Orchestra Inspires) would also be a better pick over BH Toolkit for someone with no libraries.



You're not going to hear any arguments from me on any of the OT libraries, I've fooled around with all but TO and they're really fine. Put it this way, if I never put in the time with my EW and Albion stuff, Berlin would have been a sure pick for me. I especially like the Brass and Woodwinds, I need more time on my friend's computer to explore the strings, but from the little experience I've had, they're pretty darn great!


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## procreative (Jul 1, 2017)

Lawson. said:


> I think it would work best to compliment someone's pallet, not be someone's pallet



I hope you don't think it would go well with a wooden crate much loved by delivery drivers?


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## Lawson. (Jul 1, 2017)

procreative said:


> I hope you don't think it would go well with a wooden crate much loved by delivery drivers?



Shoot, I didn't notice that! Thanks for pointing it out!! Gonna fix it now.


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## Hat_Tricky (Jul 2, 2017)

I have Albion One (and the legacy Albion 1)...I don't NEED this...but I WANT IT. I'm still saving for Tundra and Omnisphere...argh!!!


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## dcoscina (Jul 2, 2017)

For what it's worth I have found the BH library to be one of the most creatively inspiring libraries I've gotten in years. It just makes me want to write and has given me a lot of inspiration as well.


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 2, 2017)

Spitfire has especially delighted me by offering up extra insight into Maestro Herrmann's music, there's so much informative, inspiring stuff here:

http://www.spitfireaudio.com/editorial/features/bernard-moments/


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 2, 2017)

Hey my friends,
spent some time today and created more sounds with the BH Library. For those who are still on the fence. I love the sounds a lot.


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## s_bettinzana (Jul 2, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hey my friends,
> spent some time today and created more sounds with the BH Library. For those who are still on the fence. I love the sounds a lot.




Thank you!
Very nice and well appreciated.


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## dcoscina (Jul 2, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hey my friends,
> spent some time today and created more sounds with the BH Library. For those who are still on the fence. I love the sounds a lot.



Dude this is awesome! How did you achieve those quick wind figures? SF should use this as one of their official demos.


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## mac (Jul 2, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hey my friends,
> spent some time today and created more sounds with the BH Library. For those who are still on the fence. I love the sounds a lot.




Nice! Did you add reverb?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 2, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> Dude this is awesome! How did you achieve those quick wind figures? SF should use this as one of their official demos.



Just normal shorts and supplementary trills. 


mac said:


> Nice! Did you add reverb?



yes, added a little bit of reverb with the built in reverb slider.


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## N.Caffrey (Jul 2, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hey my friends,
> spent some time today and created more sounds with the BH Library. For those who are still on the fence. I love the sounds a lot.



really good my friend, one my favourite pieces from you so far!


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## VinRice (Jul 2, 2017)

Nice piece Alexander! I'm loving this library so far. 

I think there is an important observation to be made here. In the real world of today, creating pieces of music for money, your big epic symphonic opus with silky strings and ffff horns is simply not going to get the gig. Frankly, anybody can do that now. Commissioning editors, producers and directors must hear that stuff all the time. Quirky instrumentation and unusual arrangements are the order of the day. This library's sound is unique and makes you want to write in a different way. Spitfire don't want you calling it a 'vintage' library but of course it is - that's actually very useful and inspiring. Not only does it sound like the obvious 50's and 60's films but that sound migrated to every 70's and 80's American cop show on TV as well. Evocative is the word.


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## SoNowWhat? (Jul 3, 2017)

Excellent work @AlexanderSchiborr, a really interesting piece. Lots of layers and depth. Thank you for sharing.
For me right now, this is one of those things where I don't really need it but would love to have it. Especially when I hear what people are doing with it. However, I'm just not sure I can swing it right now. I may have to be a patient padawan.


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## Ryan99 (Jul 3, 2017)

Very nice product once again!


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## Musicam (Jul 4, 2017)

So incredible, yes"! I am very happy with this product. I hope that the next product will be EVO Brass and trumpets. I need it.


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## Ben E (Jul 6, 2017)

stevebarden said:


> I came across 3 instruments from the Individual Articulations folder that appear to be defective. They show zero bytes when loaded:
> 
> e - Low Strings - Marcato Attack
> o - Trumpet and Xylophone - Short Muted (Octave)
> ...


I can confirm this. These three are missing.


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## VinRice (Jul 7, 2017)

There are quite a few hiccups in the library actually - in the special 'stereo mixes' section the percussion instruments are there but the samples are MIA!. I also found the Vibrato slider wired the wrong way around on a couple of instruments. None of these things are major in any way but I expect there will be an update in due course. I suspect this ended up being a much larger project in the end than Spitfire had envisaged.


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 7, 2017)

I would love to see also a panner for each mic (unless I'm missing something); it might be especially cool with the ensembles, considering you can emphasize and deemphasize the different instruments via mixing the different mic levels. This approach worked for the Evos.

I agree, there are some that might be missing due to the sheer volume of the library. Easy to forgive...especially considering I think the first update for BHOT is going to be a smile-bringing doozy  

In any event, I can't get enough of this library! My favorite since Uist a couple years back.


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## Spitfire Team (Jul 7, 2017)

Hi there - here is a quick tip we prepared last week which addresses the mic mixer and how to tweak the panning and stereo width of individual mics!



All best,

Paul


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 7, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> I would love to see also a panner for each mic (unless I'm missing something); it might be especially cool with the ensembles, considering you can emphasize and deemphasize the different instruments via mixing the different mic levels. This approach worked for the Evos.





Spitfire Team said:


> Hi there - here is a quick tip we prepared last week which addresses the mic mixer and how to tweak the panning and stereo width of individual mics!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow. I feel really dumb. However, was HOPING for another Paul video!  Now perhaps we can talk Daniel into doing one...


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## heisenberg (Jul 9, 2017)

Spitfire Team said:


> Hi there - here is a quick tip we prepared last week which addresses the mic mixer and how to tweak the panning and stereo width of individual mics!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for that Paul. I checked the LCOS library with the new and similar mic arrangement/interface and see the stereo width/panning tools are there as well. Very useful.


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 11, 2017)

Continuing with my delightful Obsession with this library. I've noticed that, when aiming toward using many instances of the BHOT in a project, I'll typically turn on all the mics except the Ambient and Overhead, which makes a significantly less resource-hungry project.

I also turn off all the reverbs (at times it can get a bit irritating with the default on). A slight bit of QL Spaces or Revelation have been serving me well on the bus while I'm writing and arranging, and the extra dry sample really work well with these reverbs, at least in my experience.

Some folks might have noticed I have cut way back on my posting here, blame it all on this library! I can't think of another library, since the EW Hollywoods, I've loved and used as much (and had to study as much to get the most out of lol!).

Hope everyone is having similar, positive experiences, and most of all hope you're all having a wonderful Summer!


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## VinRice (Jul 11, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> (and had to study as much to get the most out of lol!)


 I can appreciate that. The library has such a particular sound that you don't want to 'parody' the music of the eras it evokes - or at least there is a fear of doing so. The standard epic strings and shouty horns have come such staple of present day media music that you can pretty much get away with anything. This library isn't like that - it makes you want to write in an authentic style - which is hard work dammit...


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 11, 2017)

VinRice said:


> I can appreciate that. The library has such a particular sound that you don't want to 'parody' the music of the eras it evokes - or at least there is a fear of doing so. The standard epic strings and shouty horns have come such staple of present day media music that you can pretty much get away with anything. This library isn't like that - it makes you want to write in an authentic style - which is hard work dammit...



The rewards have been continual for me. At first I was a bit intimidated by the mics (having had only the Albions and EDNA before), but once I started actively using them so many possibilities opened up.

I'd still love to have decorations and chords tracks for more of the instruments though (I'm completely spoiled so I'll shut up now).


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## dcoscina (Jul 11, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> The rewards have been continual for me. At first I was a bit intimidated by the mics (having had only the Albions and EDNA before), but once I started actively using them so many possibilities opened up.
> 
> I'd still love to have decorations and chords tracks for more of the instruments though (I'm completely spoiled so I'll shut up now).


Yeah this is a seriously inspired library. I've been using it with Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds for a new piece and it marries quite well.


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 11, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> Yeah this is a seriously inspired library. I've been using it with Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds for a new piece and it marries quite well.



I've been matching it to EW Hollywood and Chris Hein's Brass and Woodwinds quite easily, probably because they're all pretty dry. I have a bit more trouble fitting it in with the Albions (besides coming up with some super beyond-Bernard psycho stuff with Iceni's ugliest brass and low woodwind patches), I would think for obvious reasons.


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## Shubus (Jul 11, 2017)

No longer on the fence, got BH at the introductory price. I am delighted and amazed at the depth here. This whole library is well integrated and a huge time saver and the various combos are very inspirational.


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## jtnyc (Jul 11, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> I also turn off all the reverbs (at times it can get a bit irritating with the default on).



You probably know you can re-save the nik's with the reverb off, but just in case you don't, I thought I'd mention it. If there are a lot of nki's in the library, it's a bit of a pain, but you only have to do it once. I've have re-saved them with many other libraries for various reasons to help my workflow.


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## Shubus (Jul 15, 2017)

Speaking of resaving.......when moving this library to a new drive, I have been unable to do a Kontakt Batch Resave without getting an error that over 1000 samples that cant be found....but of course they are there...Kontakt seems to be looking for them with a funny prefix.


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## jtnyc (Jul 15, 2017)

Shubus said:


> Speaking of resaving.......when moving this library to a new drive, I have been unable to do a Kontakt Batch Resave without getting an error that over 1000 samples that cant be found....but of course they are there...Kontakt seems to be looking for them with a funny prefix.



when you got the error did you point it to the samples folder?


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## procreative (Jul 16, 2017)

Can I check if there is something wrong with my install or if this is a bug/error?

The Low Strings Marcato Attack (which only seems to appear in the Individual Articulations folder) loads empty in both Stereo and Mic Mixer versions.

Also unlike High Strings there only seems to be a Core Techniques palette in the Advanced folder whereas High Strings has them for Core, Decorative, Shorts, Sordino. Yet there are plenty more articulations such as Tremolo ones that appear in the Individual Articulations folder that do not appear in a Keyswitch patch.


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## Shubus (Jul 16, 2017)

jtnyc said:


> when you got the error did you point it to the samples folder?


No, I just pointed to the main library folder. This worked for the initial installation as well as every library that I have, but not this one.


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## Iskra (Jul 19, 2017)

This is the first test drive with BH toolkit, not very good programming and the start loosely based on one of the Prokofiev's sonatas. I have to say, wonderful library full of surprises. I actually love that is pretty dry, and the sounds are full of character. I still haven't dig into the synth section or all the patches.
Anyway, I thought it will be worth sharing, I'm really enjoying the library so far


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## TintoL (Jul 19, 2017)

Iskra said:


> This is the first test drive with BH toolkit, not very good programming and the start loosely based on one of the Prokofiev's sonatas. I have to say, wonderful library full of surprises. I actually love that is pretty dry, and the sounds are full of character. I still haven't dig into the synth section or all the patches.
> Anyway, I thought it will be worth sharing, I'm really enjoying the library so far



That was great sir..... such definition of sound. Thanks for sharing.

I am so sad that I missed this library introductory price. Every piece I hear sounds great. They nailed this library.


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## TintoL (Jul 19, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hey my friends,
> spent some time today and created more sounds with the BH Library. For those who are still on the fence. I love the sounds a lot.



Crap man... that was sooo good, lots of movement there. Your piece has a bigger room and other pieces I've heard have a smaller room and yet it works for both. Did you added reverb on top?


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## madfloyd (Jul 22, 2017)

Iskra said:


> This is the first test drive with BH toolkit, not very good programming and the start loosely based on one of the Prokofiev's sonatas. I have to say, wonderful library full of surprises. I actually love that is pretty dry, and the sounds are full of character. I still haven't dig into the synth section or all the patches.
> Anyway, I thought it will be worth sharing, I'm really enjoying the library so far




Wow! I LOVE this. Is this all done using only the BH library?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 22, 2017)

Iskra said:


> This is the first test drive with BH toolkit, not very good programming and the start loosely based on one of the Prokofiev's sonatas. I have to say, wonderful library full of surprises. I actually love that is pretty dry, and the sounds are full of character. I still haven't dig into the synth section or all the patches.
> Anyway, I thought it will be worth sharing, I'm really enjoying the library so far




Splendid, I can feel your fun.


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## Iskra (Jul 22, 2017)

madfloyd said:


> I LOVE this. Is this all done using only the BH library?


Many thanks for the compliment  Everything BH Toolkit, yep. Just put a little reverb over it.
There are many many different timbres available (I used a lot of mutes and combis there). It is also worth checking the different close mics to highlight one of the sounds in the combi. Also I took good note of Paul from Spitfire about collapsing the tereo of the close mics and then pan them. Very good tip!


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## Iskra (Jul 22, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Splendid, I can feel your fun.


Thanks Alexander, that sentence coming from you means a lot to me. Many thanks!


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## skythemusic (Jul 23, 2017)

Iskra said:


> This is the first test drive with BH toolkit, not very good programming and the start loosely based on one of the Prokofiev's sonatas. I have to say, wonderful library full of surprises. I actually love that is pretty dry, and the sounds are full of character. I still haven't dig into the synth section or all the patches.
> Anyway, I thought it will be worth sharing, I'm really enjoying the library so far




This is fantastic. I bought the library and look forward to using it, if I can orchestrate 1/4 as well for my lo-fi dream pop tunes I'll be thrilled.


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## StillLife (Jul 24, 2017)

skythemusic said:


> This is fantastic. I bought the library and look forward to using it, if I can orchestrate 1/4 as well for my lo-fi dream pop tunes I'll be thrilled.


I am also interested in this library for its possible use in a pop/rock-context. Could you (or someone else) elaborate on how well it fits to these styles? And how's the playability of this library?


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## madfloyd (Aug 5, 2017)

Can anyone tell me if this library would blend in well with Spitfire Symphony Orchestra? I'm looking to compliment BH with a full orchestra (instead of only relying on the combo patches).

Thanks!


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## VinRice (Aug 6, 2017)

Jeff (Geoff?) Manchester did a good YouTube on the different Spitfire string libraries here:


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## Ben E (Aug 6, 2017)

madfloyd said:


> Can anyone tell me if this library would blend in well with Spitfire Symphony Orchestra? I'm looking to compliment BH with a full orchestra (instead of only relying on the combo patches).
> 
> Thanks!



I've done this one short piece combining some Spitfire Bernard Herrmann with their Symphonic series (and some Albion One.) I used the Harp/Vibraphone, Harp/Celeste and the Orchestral Chords from the Herrmann library. (All the lush chords underneath are from that patch.) This is a wet piece though. The Herrmann stuff just fills it out. I haven't yet tried to combine the Herrmann library in a more up-front way. Hope this sort of helps though.

http://beneshbach.com/resources/music/music/The Great Suburban Barbecue.mp3


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## Lotias (Aug 6, 2017)

VinRice said:


> Jeff (Geoff?) Manchester did a good YouTube on the different Spitfire string libraries here:



If only he didn't take so much time _talking_ - it took 7 minutes for him to get around to the first library and then he starts talking for several minutes before the next one. Complains about people giving their opinions and then spends too long giving his own, for such a simple comparison.  Useful comparison once I skimmed through.


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## StillLife (Sep 27, 2017)

To all you Bernard Herrmann Toolkit-buyers out there: how are you getting along with it after the first months? I am still on the fence. I am intrigued by what I hear, but since I already own Albion V, I keep asking myself: do I really need another comprehensive library with orchestral sounds and synths?


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## C-Wave (Sep 27, 2017)

StillLife said:


> To all you Bernard Herrmann Toolkit-buyers out there: how are you getting along with it after the first months? I am still on the fence. I am intrigued by what I hear, but since I already own Albion V, I keep asking myself: do I really need another comprehensive library with orchestral sounds and synths?


BHCT actually complement Albion V in that it’s drier than V hence more grit, and can be louder. Besides i didn’t see any lower range on V.. correct me if I am wrong.


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## Ben E (Sep 27, 2017)

StillLife said:


> To all you Bernard Herrmann Toolkit-buyers out there: how are you getting along with it after the first months? I am still on the fence. I am intrigued by what I hear, but since I already own Albion V, I keep asking myself: do I really need another comprehensive library with orchestral sounds and synths?


Honestly, I haven't been able to make it work. It's the first Spitfire library (I own about 20) that makes me angry every time I try to use it. The sounds are fantastic but as soon as I try to assemble them it falls apart. The woodwinds are particularly annoying for me. I've heard pieces that others on this forum have put together and they sound fantastic. The Andy Blaney demo thing is other-worldly. But I'm blocked by it. I keep coming back to it hoping for a eureka moment. Fingers crossed.


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## Iskra (Sep 27, 2017)

StillLife said:


> since I already own Albion V, I keep asking myself: do I really need another comprehensive library with orchestral sounds and synths?


Honestly the library is great so far. Still using it almost on a daily basis, I'm now finding really useful some of the patches to combine with other libraries (e.g. the half string section, the low brass+low strings patches). As stated by the others above, I don't think the content is redundant with Albion One and V, as BH is imho a totally different palette of sounds...


Ben E said:


> as soon as I try to assemble them it falls apart. The woodwinds are particularly annoying for me.



I find it almost the contrary, can you elaborate on your problems on assembling or mixing? You mean by itself or when combining with other libraries?


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## Ben E (Sep 27, 2017)

Iskra said:


> I find it almost the contrary, can you elaborate on your problems on assembling or mixing? You mean by itself or when combining with other libraries?



I mean by itself. I've combined some of the patches with other Spitfire libraries and have liked the results. (See my most recent in Members Compositions: "Something wet with the Bernard Herrmann Library".) Other members' compositions (yours, for instance) have inspired me greatly, but the library itself sadly does not -- which is different from every other Spitfire library. 

The woods are frustrating for me because the patches always seem to be missing samples (intentionally) at precisely where I need them. I need a clarinet to play *this* note -- but there is no such sample because the clarinet is married to the cor anglais and trumpet and so its range is truncated. I need a bassoon to play *this* note -- but its range is also truncated (by almost an octave?) in order to reach only an octave below the oboes. The "low winds long" patch sounds too much like an accordion to my ears. There's more but I can't remember right now. (I recall being frustrated by the string legato patches, and the lack of certain legato patches all together -- brass for instance.)

I think it's this: where all other Spitfire libraries are slave to my ear/composition (even the dry or unusual ones,) the BHCT too strongly dictates what I can compose. Maybe I'm just not a good enough writer (or a Herrmann-esque enough composer) to work in those constraints. I know that this is what the library is _supposed_ to be, and so I'm by no means saying that the library is a failure. I've just failed to make it work. I know that eventually the right composition will come along for the library. Just not yet.


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## sostenuto (Sep 27, 2017)

Ben E said:


> I mean by itself. I've combined some of the patches with other Spitfire libraries and have liked the results. (See my most recent in Members Compositions: "Something wet with the Bernard Herrmann Library".) Other members' compositions (yours, for instance) have inspired me greatly, but the library itself sadly does not -- which is different from every other Spitfire library.
> 
> The woods are frustrating for me because the patches always seem to be missing samples (intentionally) at precisely where I need them. I need a clarinet to play *this* note -- but there is no such sample because the clarinet is married to the cor anglais and trumpet and so its range is truncated. I need a bassoon to play *this* note -- but its range is also truncated (by almost an octave?) in order to reach only an octave below the oboes. The "low winds long" patch sounds too much like an accordion to my ears. There's more but I can't remember right now. (I recall being frustrated by the string legato patches, and the lack of certain legato patches all together -- brass for instance.)
> 
> I think it's this: where all other Spitfire libraries are slave to my ear/composition (even the dry or unusual ones,) the BHCT too strongly dictates what I can compose. Maybe I'm just not a good enough writer (or a Herrmann-esque enough composer) to work in those constraints. I know that this is what the library is _supposed_ to be, and so I'm by no means saying that the library is a failure. I've just failed to make it work. I know that eventually the right composition will come along for the library. Just not yet.



Really a timely and helpful discussion ! As very limited-capabilitiy user, everything is 'played-in', which makes 'tutti' and ensemble libs preferable.
Was struggling between BH_CT and Spitfire Chamber Strings. Keeping your Post(s) in context .... feeling _safer_ with SCS to fit with Albion(s) One / Tundra, as well as BO_Inspire, The Orchestra.
THX!


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## JonSolo (Sep 27, 2017)

It is certainly far from conventional when it comes to orchestral libraries. I don't find myself forced into a pocket with it, but it does require some massaging to get it where you need it to be. The sounds and sections are setup to work the way BH did and that is where the magic happens. If I need a clarinet I am NOT going to go to the BH library...unless I need that specific character that the sounds/combinations bring. I find that if I start within that library, I explore ideas and directions I might not have if I were left to my own mechanisms. 

So from a point of view it does inspire you. But from another, it can take an existing inspiration and redirect it in a subtle way that sometimes ends up better than where you started. 

If you don't view it as your "daily driver" orchestra, you will go far with it.


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## Ben E (Sep 27, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> It is certainly far from conventional when it comes to orchestral libraries. I don't find myself forced into a pocket with it, but it does require some massaging to get it where you need it to be. The sounds and sections are setup to work the way BH did and that is where the magic happens. If I need a clarinet I am NOT going to go to the BH library...unless I need that specific character that the sounds/combinations bring. I find that if I start within that library, I explore ideas and directions I might not have if I were left to my own mechanisms.
> 
> So from a point of view it does inspire you. But from another, it can take an existing inspiration and redirect it in a subtle way that sometimes ends up better than where you started.
> 
> If you don't view it as your "daily driver" orchestra, you will go far with it.


Thank you for this. This is how I should look at it. Rather than committing myself to the library alone, use it as a launch for inspiration. I think I've been locked in a mindset where I considered it "cheating" or "compromising" to augment the BHCT with other libraries. Kind of ridiculous.


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## JonSolo (Sep 27, 2017)

Ben E said:


> Thank you for this. This is how I should look at it. Rather than committing myself to the library alone, use it as a launch for inspiration. I think I've been locked in a mindset where I considered it "cheating" or "compromising" to augment the BHCT with other libraries. Kind of ridiculous.



At first you tell yourself exactly that... "I am cheating to move outside of this library." But I think one thing that makes BH such a beast of a composer is that he explored outside of the norm. He created his own synthesis of sounds with these crazy combinations. So instead of trying to make something "fit" I embrace the fact that it might not: it may be dryer than things going on around it, it may be too bright or dull, it might not seem the right sound, etc. Walk away, come back, and boom- staring at a new idea that can take on other things and make it better.

Of course this could apply to any library. But what makes this work so well with BH is you get a specific character with the sound, that Spitfire captured wonderfully, that I don't think another library out there could get to on its own.


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## PeterN (Sep 27, 2017)

Thanks for starting the good question in this thread StillLife. I dont have this library myself, but like you, Im curious about it. I hope more people will share their opinions. Can we have a few more? 

My personal interest in this library is such that I think it may also be a tool in educating oneself in orchestration. For someone starting out, and a few steps on the road already, seeing and learning how other composers match certain instruments, I expect to be of educational value. Like the trombone and the timpani and such. Seems theres lots of this stuff in this library. Im sure thres some books with this too, but Id rather go for libraries.

Can someone comment on this if my thought is wrong, so I dont throw 500 EUR on something that wouldnt be educational. Thanks.


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## Iskra (Sep 27, 2017)

Ben E said:


> The woods are frustrating for me because the patches always seem to be missing samples (intentionally) at precisely where I need them. I need a clarinet to play *this* note -- but there is no such sample because the clarinet is married to the cor anglais and trumpet and so its range is truncated. I need a bassoon to play *this* note -- but its range is also truncated (by almost an octave?) in order to reach only an octave below the oboes. The "low winds long" patch sounds too much like an accordion to my ears. There's more but I can't remember right now. (I recall being frustrated by the string legato patches, and the lack of certain legato patches all together -- brass for instance.)


As Jon put very elegantly above, I too understand where you're coming from, but I also see the library from the opposite point of view. For one, it really works for me to put myself some limitations (very broad ones) regarding what can I use and what I cannot. In this case, the nature of the instruments and sounds works for me as a powerful source of inspiration, and trying to do what I have in my head with this tool exclusively (not that is mandatory, of course, just I wanted to do it that way) led to some limits that I have to overcome with a bit more inventiveness, I guess.
Plus, the unusual combinations and flexibility of mics (so you can partially "hide" one of the instruments or the combination or highlight one against the other, for instance), led me to some discoveries of sounds that I'm sure I would't had discovered myself without this library.
So, in my experience, it's not like I'm as good as a composer as BH (hell no, by light years), but the library kinda forces me to step into the man's shoes, if it makes any sense. Actually I feel it's kind of a challenge that will make me learn and be better, almost like going "if Bernard Herrmann did wonderful music with this kind of combinations, obviously it can be done!". Sounds weird, I know.


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## sostenuto (Sep 28, 2017)

Iskra said:


> As Jon put very elegantly above, I too understand where you're coming from, but I also see the library from the opposite point of view. For one, it really works for me to put myself some limitations (very broad ones) regarding what can I use and what I cannot. In this case, the nature of the instruments and sounds works for me as a powerful source of inspiration, and trying to do what I have in my head with this tool exclusively (not that is mandatory, of course, just I wanted to do it that way) led to some limits that I have to overcome with a bit more inventiveness, I guess.
> Plus, the unusual combinations and flexibility of mics (so you can partially "hide" one of the instruments or the combination or highlight one against the other, for instance), led me to some discoveries of sounds that I'm sure I would't had discovered myself without this library.
> So, in my experience, it's not like I'm as good as a composer as BH (hell no, by light years), but the library kinda forces me to step into the man's shoes, if it makes any sense. Actually I feel it's kind of a challenge that will make me learn and be better, almost like going "if Bernard Herrmann did wonderful music with this kind of combinations, obviously it can be done!". Sounds weird, I know.





PeterN said:


> Thanks for starting the good question in this thread StillLife. I dont have this library myself, but like you, Im curious about it. I hope more people will share their opinions. Can we have a few more?
> 
> My personal interest in this library is such that I think it may also be a tool in educating oneself in orchestration. For someone starting out, and a few steps on the road already, seeing and learning how other composers match certain instruments, I expect to be of educational value. Like the trombone and the timpani and such. Seems theres lots of this stuff in this library. Im sure thres some books with this too, but Id rather go for libraries.
> 
> Can someone comment on this if my thought is wrong, so I dont throw 500 EUR on something that wouldnt be educational. Thanks.



*@ PeterN* _ Your '_educational'_ perspective has rekindled immediate interest ! So tough _ as early days for me and each new lib is critical.
Had already gone for BO_Inspire & The Orchestra, in hopes of jump-starting my learning. Wondering if BH_CT can be a useful addition, or something disparate (apart from its salient qualities).

*@ Iskra* _ Read your great post following this one, and would ask this same question. My age, expertise, and experience, as pianist, organist, has me trying to find good tools to create and enjoy.
Not truly in a position to start from scratch with learning process. Hope to be able to 'play in' creative work from keyboard, without getting heavily into MIDI detail. Tutti & ensemble libraries are most enjoyable.
Does BH_CT fit ? ... as you experience it?


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## mikehamm123 (Sep 28, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> But I think one thing that makes BH such a beast of a composer is that he explored outside of the norm. He created his own synthesis of sounds with these crazy combinations.



Now I'm wondering what Morricone thought of BH...


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## Iskra (Sep 28, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> *@ Iskra* _ Read your great post following this one, and would ask this same question. My age, expertise, and experience, as pianist, organist, has me trying to find good tools to create and enjoy.
> Not truly in a position to start from scratch with learning process. Hope to be able to 'play in' creative work from keyboard, without getting heavily into MIDI detail. Tutti & ensemble libraries are most enjoyable.
> Does BH_CT fit ? ... as you experience it?


Hi my friend, 
I would say BH fit, basically because the sound is awesome and -for me- that's one of the primary enjoyment sources: just playing something and getting beautiful sounds out of it. Plus, you can load the basic patches and just play, and little by little when you want some more 'complications', you can always dig deeper in the library later (it has a LOT of content).
As for mixing, I think the drier style, but not completely dry, library makes it easier to mix, but that could be just me. I think it would be a nice addition for TO and Inspire, as they are pretty different (if I remember correctly, in Inspire you even have some solo instruments, right?). BH is more different to Inspire than other ensemble libraries (like Albion One), so to speak, so I think they will pair well.


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## Darren Durann (Sep 29, 2017)

Well, as you can see by my avatar I'm biased, but from my experience (I bought it on pre-order and have worked with it extensively since) it's a no-brainer. Not just because it give you an in-depth study of easily one of the greatest composers (making it invaluable in terms of educative properties), but due to the super dry samples it's an easy mix with other, fantastic libraries like EW Hollywood.

If you plan on layering this library with Albions I to III then you're going to have trouble because of the Albions' wet (often way too wet) sound. I look at all the Albions as niche products considering the fact that the reverb is so baked in as to often render them practically useless unless you're using them solely on a project (without outside party libs).

It would be nice if Spitfire carried an IR reverb that is based on AIR and the other studios they recorded their wet libraries in, because, we could make outside (dry) libraries fit in so much easier with, for example, their Albions. Just imagine, say, the Chris Hein libraries (all room effects off) with an AIR convolution reverb, or the abovementioned EW Hollywood. I'm guessing we'd have quite the match if it were made possible.

I think Albion V and BHOT are so different that owning them both is perfectly alright. I don't know about the two together on a project...I've never combined them, and to be honest I found V mostly useless since I already own all the Evo Grids. So, it you own all the EVOs and Olaf Arnauld stuff I would highly _not _recommend V.


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## Darren Durann (Sep 29, 2017)

mikehamm123 said:


> Now I'm wondering what Morricone thought of BH...



From every interview I've read, Morricone has been highly complimentary to most of the composers he's been questioned about (as is de rigueur in classy circles). He was always very gentlemanly in that respect. I doubt he's said anything less than nice about Bernard, after all those two are right up there with the elite in their respective careers.

I know I'm a straight sycophant of Bernard's (I am similarly a fanboy of such other composers as Bach, Beethoven, and Rózsa), but I feel there would have been even greater things coming from Bernard had he not died relatively early. Both his* Obsession* and *Taxi Driver* scores were sensational (the latter venturing into what was a new frontier for the composer), so he was firing on all cylinders upon his tragic death. He also had *Carrie* and* Dressed to Kill* coming up for DePalma, both of which would have been even better movies had he stuck around. So, I can see where Morricone has been rated a bit higher as a composer...but then, Morricone (not to mention Williams) has lived 24 years longer and put out great music even after the age of 64 (Bernard's age upon death). I venture to guess Herrmann would have kept putting out the classic scores had he not taken such poor care of his health (shame on you, Bernard).

Of course, the typical Herrmann-ite wonders also how his ranking would have been effected had Hitchcock cared enough about his movies to not fire him...that said, one of his greatest scores (*Fahrenheit 451*) came out directly after that firing, so perhaps it wasn't that mitigating a factor.

Whew! Enough from the fanboy (btw I think Morricone is great, too. My favorite by him is *The Thing*).


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## StillLife (Sep 29, 2017)

Darren Durann said:


> I think Albion V and BHOT are so different that owning them both is perfectly alright. I don't know about the two together on a project...I've never combined them, and to be honest I found V mostly useless since I already own all the Evo Grids. So, it you own all the EVOs and Olaf Arnauld stuff I would highly _not _recommend V.



Thank you for this insight. And what about the other way around? If you own V, would that make buying the evo's and Arnalds redundant? Or do you prefer the latter? (if so, why?)


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## Darren Durann (Sep 29, 2017)

StillLife said:


> Thank you for this insight. And what about the other way around? If you own V, would that make buying the evo's and Arnalds redundant? Or do you prefer the latter? (if so, why?)



You know, that's a very good question...the Spitfire Evos ended up being kind of redundant for me, as I already own Action Strings, Session Strings, Luminoso, and a couple others (the Spitifire Albions, for instance, feature a more often than not very good Ostinato section).

If you own V, I would only even consider buying Evo 4 because the woodwinds are done so well. It's a nice tool to have. But you could more than conceivably do without it. I regret the hundreds of dollars I spent on the other Evos (including the Arnauld, personally). I already had V and the above NI instruments.

All considered, I almost never use either V or the Evos (besides the aforementioned 4). Both Action and Session Strings work just fine until I actually pay my string section to record my music.

I should mention also that, in case you're mostly interested in "realistic" mockups, the fact that at least a little room sound is present in practically all the patches in the Evos and Albions kind of dashes that, unless you plan on using _just those_ in a project and practically no other library. AS and SS sit much easier, in myriad contexts, at least to my ears. Either way, for me getting the Evos and V to sit with drier libraries can be quite the trial, not to mention that the Evos have a generally smooth sound (in the kind of glossed-over-transients-way) than the NI stuff.

But these are just the experiences of one person, I'm sure others have important input on these libraries and those should be weighed concurrently.


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## StillLife (Sep 29, 2017)

Thank you, Darren Durrann! I was sure I had to have the evo's, but I will delve into V, AS and SS again. 
What I conclude, for now: one aspect of the Bernard Herrmann lib is that it is NOT redundant, even when you own a lot of Spitfire stuff.


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## Darren Durann (Sep 29, 2017)

StillLife said:


> Thank you, Darren Durrann! I was sure I had to have the evo's, but I will delve into V, AS and SS again.
> What I conclude, for now: one aspect of the Bernard Herrmann lib is that it is NOT redundant, even when you own a lot of Spitfire stuff.



Want a dry, ensemble based library with combinations that will inspire you creatively? One that, at least in my experience, mixes marvelously well with other, dry libraries? BHOT.

Dude, I could have made a BHOT trailer (cracking up).


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## StillLife (Sep 29, 2017)

Hah, I reckon!
Just curious: do you also own Spitfire Chamber Strings?


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## Darren Durann (Sep 29, 2017)

StillLife said:


> Hah, I reckon!
> Just curious: do you also own Spitfire Chamber Strings?



No, just Spitfire Symphonic Strings, which I also rarely use (I most often use EW Hollywood). Sometimes SSS is good for layering, but overall I regret that purchase as well.

The Spitfire stuff I love and use all the time are BHOT, Albion One+Legacy (almost exclusively for the woodwinds and short strings), Albion II, III, and IV. All but the BHOT are used for quick ideas and such.

When I go for "realistic" string mockups it's always Hollywood Strings, regularly layered with BHOT. Works great for me. I should probably get some examples ready, when I'm less busy.


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## sostenuto (Sep 29, 2017)

Iskra said:


> Hi my friend,
> I would say BH fit, basically because the sound is awesome and -for me- that's one of the primary enjoyment sources: just playing something and getting beautiful sounds out of it. Plus, you can load the basic patches and just play, and little by little when you want some more 'complications', you can always dig deeper in the library later (it has a LOT of content).
> As for mixing, I think the drier style, but not completely dry, library makes it easier to mix, but that could be just me. I think it would be a nice addition for TO and Inspire, as they are pretty different (if I remember correctly, in Inspire you even have some solo instruments, right?). BH is more different to Inspire than other ensemble libraries (like Albion One), so to speak, so I think they will pair well.



Very cool for you to cover my very narrow needs/interests so directly! I was/am concerned about the effects of Studio 1 _ Air Lyndhurst, in terms of 'fitting' BH_CT with my other new libraries. 

Immediate alternatives are quite diverse .... BH_CT, Albion ICENI, or starting down EVO(s) path. 
Your 'enjoyment / inspiration' posts here, make BH_CT feel much more comfortable.


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## Darren Durann (Sep 29, 2017)

Iskra said:


> As Jon put very elegantly above, I too understand where you're coming from, but I also see the library from the opposite point of view. For one, it really works for me to put myself some limitations (very broad ones) regarding what can I use and what I cannot. In this case, the nature of the instruments and sounds works for me as a powerful source of inspiration, and trying to do what I have in my head with this tool exclusively (not that is mandatory, of course, just I wanted to do it that way) led to some limits that I have to overcome with a bit more inventiveness, I guess.
> Plus, the unusual combinations and flexibility of mics (so you can partially "hide" one of the instruments or the combination or highlight one against the other, for instance), led me to some discoveries of sounds that I'm sure I would't had discovered myself without this library.
> So, in my experience, it's not like I'm as good as a composer as BH (hell no, by light years), but the library kinda forces me to step into the man's shoes, if it makes any sense. Actually I feel it's kind of a challenge that will make me learn and be better, almost like going "if Bernard Herrmann did wonderful music with this kind of combinations, obviously it can be done!". Sounds weird, I know.



This is a really good post. +1


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## mikehamm123 (Oct 9, 2017)

Darren Durann said:


> From every interview I've read, Morricone has been highly complimentary to most of the composers he's been questioned about... I doubt he's said anything less than nice about Bernard, after all those two are right up there with the elite in their respective careers.



Both composers were/are adventurous. Morricone has definitely broken many 'rules'. Hermann also used a lot of unusual scoring. 

What I meant was, to what degree was Morricone inspired or 'liberated' by Hermann? 

This is all I've been able to find:

_Apart from anything else, he would find it hard to live in a town where movie composers routinely farm out their compositions to batteries of professional arrangers. To Morricone, this is an outrageous abdication of professional responsibility. "I invented the formula of 'music composed, arranged and conducted by Ennio Morricone'," he stresses. "Bernard Herrmann used to write all his scores by himself. So did Bach, Beethoven and Stravinsky. I don't understand why this happens in the movie industry."_

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2001/feb/23/culture.features1


----------



## Darren Durann (Oct 17, 2017)

mikehamm123 said:


> Both composers were/are adventurous. Morricone has definitely broken many 'rules'. Hermann also used a lot of unusual scoring.
> 
> What I meant was, to what degree was Morricone inspired or 'liberated' by Hermann?
> 
> ...



I don't know about inspiration per se...the first example I can think of for suspense cues from EM was The Thing, which was obviously very much a collab between EM and Carpenter (it ends up sounding like something Carpenter came up with). And that doesn't sound much at all like Bernard. Nor the spaghetti westerns or Tarantino stuff.

I think you got it right when you mentioned EM going for the whole deal: arranging, orchestrating, etc. along with composition. I'm not even in the same universe as Morricone, but I know Bernard certainly got me doing everything myself, using orchestration to put an even more personal fingerprint on my music.

They're both phenomenal, but I'm obviously biased. I'm much more into Rozsa and Herrmann, but still admire EM and think all of his kudos are totally earned. Great composer, as are all three.


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## mikehamm123 (Nov 2, 2017)

Darren Durann said:


> And that doesn't sound much at all like Bernard. Nor the spaghetti westerns or Tarantino stuff.



Stylistically they are quite different, but I wonder if EM got a green light for 'rule breaking' from BH. Of course EM probably listened to a lot of contemporary European composers I've never heard of...


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## pixel (Nov 10, 2017)

Hmm... I have this library for about few weeks. Of course my first tests ended up like something thriller/horrorish themes which is easy to do with this mixed ensembles. But I bought this samples because I actually been working on some Jazz/Swing and I wanted to have some timbre of 30's-60's. I hit the bulls-eye! Jeez this library is awesome. Till now I used it in Folk, Jazz/Swing, Tech-House and something like Rick and Morty's Theme. It can be used with any genre. It's absolutely not limited to do Herrmann style. I'm in love with this library.


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## mojamusic (Nov 10, 2017)

pixel said:


> Hmm... I have this library for about few weeks. Of course my first tests ended up like something thriller/horrorish themes which is easy to do with this mixed ensembles. But I bought this samples because I actually been working on some Jazz/Swing and I wanted to have some timbre of 30's-60's. I hit the bulls-eye! Jeez this library is awesome. Till now I used it in Folk, Jazz/Swing, Tech-House and something like Rick and Morty's Theme. It can be used with any genre. It's absolutely not limited to do Herrmann style. I'm in love with this library.



can you post some examples of how you use the library?


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## ColonelMarquand (Nov 10, 2017)

When I was young, the only film composers you mostly heard were Herrmann, Moriconne, Rosza, Bernstein, Barry and some occasional Goldsmith but slightly later, Tiomkin and so on. One other in particular stood out also and that Mancini. He was very popular. 

Bernard Herrmann complained that Mancini got all the comedies. The only question you need to ask is, can you imagine Herrmann doing a comedy? Also, I'm not completely sure why anyone would want to do Herrmann today and for what reason?


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 10, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> The only question you need to ask is, can you imagine Herrmann doing a comedy? Also, I'm not completely sure why anyone would want to do Herrmann today and for what reason?



Perhaps a black comedy....


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## pixel (Nov 10, 2017)

mojamusic said:


> can you post some examples of how you use the library?


atm I can share only a folk track that I did for myself  First part of track have patches: 'Low Winds' and 'Flutes and Clarinets'


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## ColonelMarquand (Nov 10, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> Perhaps a black comedy....



The first film he did for Hitchcock was a black comedy called The Trouble With Harry.


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## Darren Durann (Nov 10, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> When I was young, the only film composers you mostly heard were Herrmann, Moriconne, Rosza, Bernstein, Barry and some occasional Goldsmith but slightly later, Tiomkin and so on. One other in particular stood out also and that Mancini. He was very popular.
> 
> Bernard Herrmann complained that Mancini got all the comedies. The only question you need to ask is, can you imagine Herrmann doing a comedy? Also, I'm not completely sure why anyone would want to do Herrmann today and for what reason?



Not sure what you mean by do Herrmann? The BHOT is far more flexible than that. In fact, anyone who thinks it's going to make you "do Herrmann" has absolutely no idea of that library or what it's capable of.

Go and watch North and Northwest for a lesson in scoring romantic action-comedies. It covers so many bases, and he knocks all of them out of the ballpark. My opinion, but so many others share it. Trust me on this.

"Doing" anyone isn't that easy. You know what I mean.


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## ColonelMarquand (Nov 10, 2017)

Yes I saw North by Northwest at the cinema in about 1960 when it came out. Starts off with a sort of fandango and has some great scoring moments.
I also went to a Herrmann lecture/ talk from the man himself in around 1970 at our college. 

I know what you mean.


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## Darren Durann (Nov 10, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> Yes I saw North by Northwest at the cinema in about 1960 when it came out. Starts off with a sort of fandango and has some great scoring moments.
> I also went to a Herrmann lecture/ talk from the man himself in around 1970 at our college.
> 
> I know what you mean.



You saw Bernard? Dude, you kick ass!


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## ColonelMarquand (Nov 11, 2017)

I think Benny Herrmann kicks ass. What I'm getting at here is the marketing behind using Herrmann's persona. I just don't get it. It's weird. What a bout a Jerry Goldsmith library or an Elmer Bernstein library. Seems slightly out of whack to me. Jerry Goldsmith was my personal favourite film composer.


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## Darren Durann (Nov 11, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> I think Benny Herrmann kicks ass. What I'm getting at here is the marketing behind using Herrmann's persona. I just don't get it. It's weird. What a bout a Jerry Goldsmith library or an Elmer Bernstein library. Seems slightly out of whack to me. Jerry Goldsmith was my personal favourite film composer.



Good ideas but ATTENTION SPITFIRE: A Miklós Rózsa Orchestral Toolkit would be mighty welcome by most of the folks I know and myself! You want epic? Try Ben Hur, Sodom and Gomorrah, Valley of the Kings, El Cid!


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## mac (Nov 11, 2017)

What if the Spitfire guys create a whole line of iconic toolkits - John Williams, Hans Zimmer, Ennio Morricone... good god £££


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## Darren Durann (Nov 11, 2017)

mac said:


> What if the Spitfire guys create a whole line of iconic toolkits - John Williams, Hans Zimmer, Ennio Morricone... good god £££



I think that's a great idea, but we already have Zebra for Zimmer (joking).


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## SillyMidOn (Nov 11, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> Yes I saw North by Northwest at the cinema in about 1960 when it came out. Starts off with a sort of fandango and has some great scoring moments.
> I also went to a Herrmann lecture/ talk from the man himself in around 1970 at our college.
> 
> I know what you mean.



This film and score are one of my all time favourites. Must have been great to see him talk (I wasn't alive in 1970...). I guess the closest similar thing I experienced was I got to shake Dave Brubeck's hand (he had enormous hands - would have made a good slip-fielder) and he autographed a cd of his for me .


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## ColonelMarquand (Nov 11, 2017)

I understand it might not be the thread for this, but what I find interesting and slightly incredible, is back in those days, film composers were not in any way revered by people across any age range in the way they seem to be today.
I remember very well when the BBC stuck Psycho on Tv for the first time and Herrmanns name was barely mentioned in conversation the next day. Most people couldn't name a film composer if you paid them. I had actually seen Psycho at the cinema in around 1961 when it came out along with a bunch of other kids that weren't supposed to be in the cinema. The effect of film composers in those days for people was subliminal because you couldn't find out anything about them like you can today and there wasn't the interest.
Film composers were not regarded as being important in musical establishments and Herrmann came across more as someone who would have preferred to conduct classical music for a living even though the pay was crap compared to what he earned via Hollywood and his library music. Most of them did library music btw. Probably better than most.


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## mac (Nov 11, 2017)

Are there any Komplete Kontrol users that could check something for me please. I'm getting duplicate entries for the BH library - one gray and one with art. When sorted by vendor, the gray one's in the Native Instruments section, and the proper one is in Spitfire. When sorted by category, the one without cover art appears as uncatagorized.

Tried deleting all manner of files, with help from @EvilDragon, but still no luck. @SpitfireSupport any ideas?


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## EvilDragon (Nov 11, 2017)

I wonder, is BH coming with some snapshots, too?

Can you try right-clicking a patch that shows in the folder with artwork, then "Find in explorer". Does it take you to the same, or different folders?


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## mac (Nov 11, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> I wonder, is BH coming with some snapshots, too?
> 
> Can you try right-clicking a patch that shows in the folder with artwork, then "Find in explorer". Does it take you to the same, or different folders?



Good shout. Using that method I've realised the issue - the 'broken' library is linking to the stereo mixes, and the unbroken one, to the standard and advanced.

@SpitfireSupport do you need me to open another ticket about this issue?

@EvilDragon Cheers man


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## skyy38 (Nov 11, 2017)

Phryq said:


> Usually I think these celeb labels are BS, but... Herrmann!!



Dude, you are RIGHT!

Celeb Labels ARE bullshit, because celebs are PAID to get you to try a certain *something* just because they ARE "Celebs."

WHEN is the last time you saw a commercial with "real people" pushing a product?

Fucking NEVER! Because even those "REAL PEOPLE" are fucking ACTORS!

The same as YOU and ME!

WE, act through our music and other forms of expressions.

WOW! How many times have WE watched "normal people" on the national news get photographed doing something "natural" as walking through the park?

It is ALL bullshit!


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## procreative (Nov 12, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> Most people couldn't name a film composer if you paid them.



I would imagine, outside of those interested in the genre due to being music nuts, the same is still true now. Its just there are more people interested in working in the field. Growing up I only knew one person who composed for media and back then most were called "jingle composers"!

My wife still has no clue who Hans Zimmer is and does not analyse the music in a film apart from stating her irritation at films that have music all the time (usually for some reason the low budget ones).


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## ColonelMarquand (Nov 12, 2017)

procreative said:


> My wife still has no clue who Hans Zimmer is and does not analyse the music in a film apart from stating her irritation at films that have music all the time (usually for some reason the low budget ones).



She sounds like a sensible lady.


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## sostenuto (Nov 12, 2017)

SillyMidOn said:


> This film and score are one of my all time favourites. Must have been great to see him talk (I wasn't alive in 1970...). I guess the closest similar thing I experienced was I got to shake Dave Brubeck's hand (he had enormous hands - would have made a good slip-fielder) and he autographed a cd of his for me .



_Gotta keep the theme going_ _ studied piano a short bit with _Howard Brubeck_, in San Diego, when he relocated there _ loooooong time ago.


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## Eglue (Nov 12, 2017)

I really want this library. Hoping for a BF thing, but I've went through the manual and tried to do a multi with the things SF had using EWHO. It will never be the same. @Darren Durann . We are cut from the same cloth. I adore the magic of Bernard Herrmann. Always have. Thanks for being so vocal about it.

Gene


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## SillyMidOn (Nov 13, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> _Gotta keep the theme going_ _ studied piano a short bit with _Howard Brubeck_, in San Diego, when he relocated there _ loooooong time ago.


Cool


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## ThePrioryStudio (Nov 13, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> I understand it might not be the thread for this, but what I find interesting and slightly incredible, is back in those days, film composers were not in any way revered by people across any age range in the way they seem to be today.
> I remember very well when the BBC stuck Psycho on Tv for the first time and Herrmanns name was barely mentioned in conversation the next day. Most people couldn't name a film composer if you paid them. I had actually seen Psycho at the cinema in around 1961 when it came out along with a bunch of other kids that weren't supposed to be in the cinema. The effect of film composers in those days for people was subliminal because you couldn't find out anything about them like you can today and there wasn't the interest.
> Film composers were not regarded as being important in musical establishments and Herrmann came across more as someone who would have preferred to conduct classical music for a living even though the pay was crap compared to what he earned via Hollywood and his library music. Most of them did library music btw. Probably better than most.




Has that got to do with sales I wonder and how companies market today? These tools now are driven by companies that alongside all their ethics, are in it to make money so being present and upfront is how they drive those sales. 

In those days you had to write it down then on paper then get an orchestra to play it, which meant you needed the chops. Whereas today it doesn't take that kind of musical background. I'm not saying that all you need is a computer and a string library, just it's so much more accessible now. I think it's also now a very good secondary usage revenue stream for bands and artists that rather than recording albums to tour etc, they are pushed direct to film and TV, games and ads. I also think that maybe people in the know will and have always known who these people are and even today, walk down the street (not in Hollywood) and ask randoms who Hans Zimmer or Danny Elfman is, the majority or people won't have a clue even though they are colossal in the industry. 

Can you imagine what that shower scene in Psycho would have been like if Hitch had of got his way to not score that scene? Although BH's luck ran out when he disregarded Hitch's direction on Torn Curtain and was fired.


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## Darren Durann (Nov 13, 2017)

ThePrioryStudio said:


> Can you imagine what that shower scene in Psycho would have been like if Hitch had of got his way to not score that scene? Although BH's luck ran out when he disregarded Hitch's direction on Torn Curtain and was fired.



Nice avatar! 

The biggest bummer for me is the fact that Torn Curtain (which was overall a poorly organized and scripted movie to begin with) would have been an easier movie to watch had Herrmann's score been kept. Herrmann brought his compositional style to the movie, one which was already getting raves as being vital to Hitch's movies. Most folks think Hitch didn't like so much of the spotlight on Bernard...the former was reputed to have changed into a greedy, egomaniacal person after making the big bucks from The Birds and Psycho.

I highly recommend folks here whom aren't familiar with Bernard's TC score to check out the prelude and Death of Gromek...total ballsy suspense, it was made for that movie on so many levels.

Bernard's revenge was to flat turn down what could have been a much better end to Hitch's career, Family Plot (though the Williams score is quite serviceable). And Hitch ended up making some...well, okay movies after (Frenzy was alright, though it's obvious again that Herrmann would have made it so much better...Mancini himself got fired to for sounding too much like Benny). Never again was there anything approaching the greatness of North by Northwest and the abovementioned films with Bernard. Heck, Marnie was probably the last at least really good movie he ever did (and of course that was with BH again).


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## Darren Durann (Nov 13, 2017)

Sooo, I guess we have some fans of Bernard here  He and Miklos are my favorite film composers and right up there with Beethoven, JS Bach, and Mahler as my favorite composers, period.


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## SpitfireSupport (Nov 13, 2017)

mac said:


> Good shout. Using that method I've realised the issue - the 'broken' library is linking to the stereo mixes, and the unbroken one, to the standard and advanced.
> 
> @SpitfireSupport do you need me to open another ticket about this issue?
> 
> @EvilDragon Cheers man



Hi mac, yes a support ticket would be the best route forward spitfireaudio.com/support 

Ben


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## mac (Nov 13, 2017)

@SpitfireSupport Will do, ta.


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## ThePrioryStudio (Nov 14, 2017)

Darren Durann said:


> Nice avatar!



Cheers Darren 



Darren Durann said:


> the former was reputed to have changed into a greedy, egomaniacal person after making the big bucks from The Birds and Psycho.



Not to mention him also being a bully, more Hollywood stories that come round each decade.

I remember hearing the Taxi Driver score for the first time, I then linked up the Hitch stuff and I've been a BH fan ever since. He just has a very interesting ear.


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## Darren Durann (Nov 14, 2017)

ThePrioryStudio said:


> Cheers Darren
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're preaching to the choir, my friend! Him, Rozsa, Alfred Newman...LOVE them.


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## Consona (Dec 25, 2017)

I noticed there's violins and violas in the high section, how's the crossing? I have Loegria and the change in timbre is very noticible.


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## Darren Durann (Feb 16, 2018)

mikeybabes said:


> Perhaps a black comedy....



Family Plot was that, to a degree. Herrmann flatly distanced himself away from both the picture and Hitch when offered the movie (mostly because by that time Hitch had become a total a$$hole and money grubber, along with of course having been fired in the 60s by same a$$hole).

However, we ended up with one of John Williams' most quirky and varied (and imo best) scores for that movie _because _of that...if you ever want to hear Williams break out of the Wagnerian orchestra thing (though that's in the score to some degree), then Family Plot is the perfect way to do that. Highly recommended score, though even Williams said he would have much rather heard what Bernard would have done with the film.


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## muziksculp (May 12, 2018)

Hi,

I decided to revisit this topic again on this thread, especially since I still did not buy the BH-CTC library, I'm still undecided, but this time I have 40% off the regular price, so that's creating a bit of GAS. I wouldn't mind hearing more from experienced owners of BH's library again on this thread. I realize it has a lot of variety, and a unique upfront, dry sound. I like the way the strings and brass sound, I also feel that the Percussion is very good sounding, with a special character as well. Woodwind combos, and other combos are interesting, but not sure how I will use them, or when, but I can always use other libraries for more flexible woodwind and/or brass orchestrations.

The big question remains ... Should I buy it or not ?

The price of $300 (after the discount) is very attractive, given what this library delivers, on the other hand, the library requires quite a bit of SSD space. At the end of the day, it comes down to how useful is this library to have ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Parsifal666 (May 12, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I decided to revisit this topic again on this thread, especially since I still did not buy the BH-CTC library, I'm still undecided, but this time I have 40% off the regular price, so that's creating a bit of GAS. I wouldn't mind hearing more from experienced owners of BH's library again on this thread. I realize it has a lot of variety, and a unique upfront, dry sound. I like the way the strings and brass sound, I also feel that the Percussion is very good sounding, with a special character as well. Woodwind combos, and other combos are interesting, but not sure how I will use them, or when, but I can always use other libraries for more flexible woodwind and/or brass orchestrations.
> 
> ...



Damn, that's a hella good deal. I have been enchanted and delighted by that library since the day it came out, it's by far my favorite Spitfire library, one round knockout there (and I own a bunch of SF).

It has worked great for me in layering with other dry libraries (you can use them with the Albions...just set the volume back). 

The best part was, I'd JUST discovered the masterpieces Vertigo and Fahrenheit 451, and wanted to learn more. Well, this library features combinations and sounds directly related to some of the master's greatest scores. I hope you get a chance to scoop up some of those BH scores and check them out, too, they will SUPER inspire you as you read the manual and fool around.

For people who are serious about making music, especially film music but not just, and folks who aren't afraid to learn at least the basics of engineering (how to use effects in a mix, etc.) BHOT is terrific. I use it on every project, and sometimes when I'm struggling for inspiration I'll fire up something like the Sinbad score and start messing with that library BOOM! I'm writing. 

Geez, Spitfire, how about sending me some love? Smooch!


----------



## muziksculp (May 12, 2018)

@Parsifal666 ,

Thanks for the feedback. I know you are a big fan of this library. 

I was thinking that the BH Strings (Hi and Lo) that this library offers sound very unique, super dry, very detailed, and focused sound, with Sordino and Half Sordino sections, which are great to have, also good for sound design, and/or layering with other libraries, I also like the brass , and Perc. sounds quite a bit, not sure about the woodwinds, also the additional synths, and FX, are quite useful when needed.

It would be nice, and helpful to hear more comments about this library from other users before the the special pricing deal is over, I think it ends on May 15th. So, I still have a few more days to make up my mind. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## kriskrause (May 12, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> @Parsifal666 ,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I know you are a big fan of this library.
> 
> ...



I bought this library on release and I continue to use it very often. Have you read the manual? I refer to it all the time as a user, particularly for the chord mappings for the chord patches. Before buying it I watched all the official videos (the walkthrough, Oliver’s in action, and Christian’s layering video in particular) and I also watched Sample Library Review’s extensive first look. I feel as though all of them are fair representations. 

I see the library as a flavor, a great starting point, and sometimes it’s even all I need. I am a big fan of the octave high strings and high strings half section patches as well as the full orchestra, chords, and FX articulations. I use it in pure orchestral pieces as well as in pieces full of synths and/or guitars. It has been a great addition for me.


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## muziksculp (May 12, 2018)

Hi @kriskrause ,

Thanks for the helpful feedback. 

Yes, I watched most of the review videos, and spitfire videos as well. I didn't check the user's manual, so I will be doing that next. (thanks for reminding me to do so). 

I'm still evaluating it, so any additional feedback from users will be helpful. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Parsifal666 (May 12, 2018)

The Concert Flutes are a 12 flute ensemble and not for the weak hearted. Want Torn Curtain level of epic woodwinds? They're here. There are 8 horn ensembles as well, with a timbre that you don't hear in other libraries.

Awright sorry, you wanted to hear other folks chime in. I just adore BHOT (couldja tell?).


----------



## muziksculp (May 12, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> The Concert Flutes are a 12 flutes and not for the weak hearted. Want Torn Curtain level of epic woodwinds? They're here. There are 8 horn ensembles as well, with a timbre that you don't hear in other libraries.
> 
> Awright sorry, you wanted to hear other folks chime in. I just adore BHOT (couldja tell?).



Thanks @Parsifal666 , I'm always delighted to hear more from you about BHOT.


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## muziksculp (May 12, 2018)

I find the timbre/sonic quality of BHOT's Strings quite unique, I heaven't heard this in other Strings Libraries. They are quite present, and edgy sounding.

imho. BHOT's Strings have that piercing, upfront, piercing, and edgy sound that is great for layering, or EQ'ing if needed to taste, and applying some reverb as needed to tame them in various scenarios. I'm making this comment purely based on the videos/demos I'm hearing. Also loving the Sordio Strings, and Half Strings. 

This alone is tempting me to buy the library.


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## CT (May 12, 2018)

kriskrause said:


> Have you read the manual? I refer to it all the time as a user, particularly for the chord mappings for the chord patches.



Thanks for pointing out the obvious here. I can't believe I haven't looked at any of the manuals for my SF libraries until now.

In the case of this library, it answered all the questions I had about section sizes/orchestration, although the low strings sound more like they include the violas two octaves up, rather than them being a unison part of the high strings as indicated. Plus the high strings only go down to the violins' G.

Also nice to see similar information for Orchestral Swarm while I consider getting that one. Tundra's exact woodwind and brass makeup remains a mystery, however, one which Spitfire seems strangely mum about....


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## Parsifal666 (May 12, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> I find the timbre/sonic quality of BHOT's Strings quite unique, I heaven't heard this in other Strings Libraries. They are quite present, and edgy sounding.
> 
> imho. BHOT's Strings have that piercing, upfront, piercing, and edgy sound that is great for layering, or EQ'ing if needed to taste, and applying some reverb as needed to tame them in various scenarios. I'm making this comment purely based on the videos/demos I'm hearing. Also loving the Sordio Strings, and Half Strings.
> 
> This alone is tempting me to buy the library.



There are killer sordino string patches. I like combining the sordino with the longs (I pan them of course).

I'm a little surprised the BHOT strings _don't _come up here as often as they deserve. Oh dear, perhaps the legato patches lagged half a millisecond or two...



Ewps there I go again! Sorry, I've just had a ball with that library. I don't mind being a BH fanboy anyway, the guy was incredible.


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## markleake (May 12, 2018)

I've been using the horn patch a fair bit. Both chords and sustains sound very good and very usable. The full orchestra chords are good too, but I havent used them much yet. I've tried to get my head around the woods, but I don't like them much compared to other libs I have - all but maybe one patch sound pretty bad to me. I've not tried the strings much due to having so many other string libs - they have an edgy sound which I think could be very useful in some circumstances. I need to play with that part of the library some more, but one thing I will point out is the use of octaves may not be everyone's cup of tea.

Overall some of the layered instruments sound great, some not so. The choices they make with layered and octave patches can be pretty frustrating sometimes. Enough so that when I've tried to use the library mostly on its own, I give up because of a lack of useful lead instruments and easy go-to patches. Sometimes they get the instrument layering right in the longs, and then you look for shorts and they change the brass to muted, and it ruins the layering, so you can't use them like you wanted. They almost get there, then ruin the patch. Also, some of the layering you need to mess with the microphones a lot to get what you want, and your ask yourself "why don't I just use other libs that have this?" as the other libs sound fine. These issues undermine the library for me a bit. I don't regret buying it, mostly due to how much I use a few patches, and I am still exploring it, but I have mixed feelings and am dissapointed with certain parts. :(

The timpani are great, by the way, if you want some dryer timps.


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## muziksculp (May 12, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> There are killer sordino string patches. I like combining the sordino with the longs (I pan them of course).
> 
> I'm a little surprised the BHOT strings _don't _come up here as often as they deserve. Oh dear, perhaps the legato patches lagged half a millisecond or two...



@Parsifal666 , 

Yes, I agree, the strings of this library sound awesome in some of the demos.

Oh... I should also mention that I just purchased BHOT ! I couldn't resist the GAS build-up for this library  and at the price of $299.40 It's a very good value.

I know there is a big download ahead, and the need for some quality time to discover the library.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## muziksculp (May 12, 2018)

markleake said:


> I've been using the horn patch a fair bit. Both chords and sustains sound very good and very usable. The full orchestra chords are good too, but I havent used them much yet. I've tried to get my head around the woods, but I don't like them much compared to other libs I have - all but maybe one patch sound pretty bad to me. I've not tried the strings much due to having so many other string libs - they have an edgy sound which I think could be very useful in some circumstances. I need to play with that part of the library some more, but one thing I will point out is the use of octaves may not be everyone's cup of tea.
> 
> Overall some of the layered instruments sound great, some not so. The choices they make with layered and octave patches can be pretty frustrating sometimes. Enough so that when I've tried to use the library mostly on its own, I give up because of a lack of useful lead instruments and easy go-to patches. Sometimes they get the instrument layering right in the longs, and then you look for shorts and they change the brass to muted, and it ruins the layering, so you can't use them like you wanted. They almost get there, then ruin the patch. Also, some of the layering you need to mess with the microphones a lot to get what you want, and your ask yourself "why don't I just use other libs that have this?" as the other libs sound fine. These issues undermine the library for me a bit. I don't regret buying it, mostly due to how much I use a few patches, and I am still exploring it, but I have mixed feelings and am dissapointed with certain parts. :(
> 
> The timpani are great, by the way, if you want some dryer timps.



Hi @markleake ,

Thanks for your helpful feedback.

My understanding is that BHOT is not meant to be a standalone library, I think it is a library that complements other orchestral libraries you have. It offers some unique shortcuts via the layered combinations of instruments, but they are not intended to structure a complete composition, but more as fillers, or highlights withing a composition. 

The Strings being so dry, and edgy sounding imho. (although I haven't used this library yet), can be very flexible, depending on how you treat them spatially, i.e. the amount of 3rd party reverb you apply, be it pre, or post fader can also make an impact on how they sound, then you have EQ, Compression, ..etc. to tweak them to taste.

I would most likely use other Woodwind libraries with BHOT, and some other Brass as well to have more control over the voices/orchestration.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## markleake (May 12, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @markleake ,
> 
> Thanks for your helpful feedback.
> 
> ...


Yes, it's not a library you would want to use by itself. I didn't buy it with that intention, and I'd recommend others not to see it that way either. My main concern with the library is more to do with how useful I find some of the patches - it can sometimes be difficult to use them, due to how they are recorded, even though I might want to use that particular patch. Some of the patches are great though, and overall it is still a good library.


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## CT (May 12, 2018)

I do love this library but markleake makes some very valid points about the limitations and frustrations of the pre-made ensembles/octaves/doublings. I'm still coming to terms with all of that and figuring out how to reconcile it with my natural urge to have complete control over orchestration. Tundra and Orchestral Swarm also offer great "orchestral presets" that sound stunning and authentic thanks to how they're recorded, but using them is a different process altogether than being given the individual parts and the ability to manipulate each one to fit whatever you have in mind.

When using ensemble libraries like this, I think you need to be willing to "write to the samples." That's not a philosophy I buy into in any other case (that's another discussion), but if you have a 12 flute patch called up, well, you'd better write something with 12 flutes in mind, or move to another option.

I guess my point would be to consider carefully how useful the sounds that the BH Toolkit gives you will be for the way you write, because you can't really make it into anything other than what it is.


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## muziksculp (May 12, 2018)

@miket Would you have preferred to see no pre-made ensembles/combos/octaves, ..etc. in this library ? or maybe another way to ask this question is, what would have made this library more usable, or useful for you ?


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## CT (May 12, 2018)

Nah, it would probably have defeated the point! Of course anyone can make these layerings with individual patches, but recording them together will always sound more convincing. This library was about capturing Benny's thing, and that they did.

At the risk of slipping into that "other discussion" I alluded to regarding letting the samples dictate how you write....

I think starting to use ensemble libraries like this which force me to limit the amount of lines and parts I have going on, if I want to maintain realism as far as numbers of players is concerned, has actually made me write better. Having to consider every part and make it as complete and useful as possible is a great limitation to have.

If you only have "high strings legato" and "low strings legato" to deal with, you can still write something sublime. There's plenty of magnificent music out there with only two parts... or even one. Bach can tell you all you need to know about that (and almost everything else too).

Anyway, this doesn't help much with the subject at hand, I'm just thinking out loud.


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## muziksculp (May 12, 2018)

miket said:


> Nah, it would probably have defeated the point! Of course anyone can make these layerings with individual patches, but recording them together will always sound more convincing. This library was about capturing Benny's thing, and that they did.



I think it's more to do with the process of integrating a composer's style of writing into our own compositions, sometimes the pieces of the puzzle don't fit properly.


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## CT (May 12, 2018)

Yeah. That's the key. Will you be able to incorporate what it offers into what you do? I've got to say that I had my doubts because the BH style doesn't have a lot to do with my own, as far as I know, and yet I've found it increasingly useful with no sign of that stopping.

As for what would make it more *fundamentally* useful for me, the main thing would be to have the strings split differently, if not into individual sections, at least without the big three octave spread in the low strings.

EDIT: After going back in, I think those comments I made about the violas being in the low strings group are incorrect. For some reason they are cut off at the violins' low G in the high strings, though. Oh well. I'm just being a little too finicky now.


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## holywilly (May 13, 2018)

Just ordered BHCT after reading the discussion, can’t wait to test it out! Thanks all!


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## Parsifal666 (May 13, 2018)

I love the combinations patches, especially the intense power of the horns and low strings, the beauty of the xylophone and harp. And you can change the levels of each instrument through the mics (though I've noticed it's not so easy with other combinations in BHOT). The big weirdo is the trumpet/xylophone which...I'm not sure if that's really supposed to convince us there's a trumpet there, because it sounds like a pile o' crud to me.

I can't imagine the BHOT without the combinations, those are like master courses in Maestro's technique.

I also love the Sul Tasto in this library, in fact I was going to spring for LCO after I bought BHOT (specifically FOR the ST) and ended up falling too hard for the BHOT. I think it's a wonderful patch. In fact, the strings in general are very fine imo. Same with the horns, though again you're dealing with a huge ensemble. Interestingly, the horns really do sound different from other libraries (like the godly EWHB and Ark 1)...I weirdly enough don't use them much for epic stuff, more for underlying chords (and they're great for that imo). You'll hear when you mess with them just how differently they are to be used (I'd love to hear people correct me through audio on any of these points, because I could be wrong). Same goes for the standalone Trombones patches, best to mess with them and listen carefully, because they're not altogether your typical ensemble patches.

Don't forget to read up on UACC and articulations, makes life a LOT easier.

I agree that it's not good to use the (imo KILLER) concert/12 flutes patches unless you actually need that kind of huge ensemble, because it can kind of wreck your mockup when abused. I rarely use the Low Winds, Cor Anglais and Trumpet (in fact, you might want to kind of avoid any of the patches with trumpets), and Mid Brass patches, though they can be nice for getting ideas out.

As a stand alone: the Sul Tasto, Legato, and several other strings patches can be used without layering, the horns and timp


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## muziksculp (May 13, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> I love the combinations patches, especially the intense power of the horns and low strings, the beauty of the xylophone and harp. And you can change the levels of each instrument through the mics



@Parsifal666 , Thanks for letting us know that the levels of each instrument can be changed via the mics. I thought that was not possible.


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## Parsifal666 (May 13, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> @Parsifal666 , Thanks for letting us know that the levels of each instrument can be changed via the mics. I thought that was not possible.



You have to fiddle with the different mics and listen closely sometimes. I use the solo Vibraphone, Xylophone, and Harp fairly regularly.

The controllers really give you one yee-haw of a lot of power, as the manual will prove out. I didn't even get half what I eventually did out of that library until I started seriously hitting the manual.


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## ironbut (May 13, 2018)

I could resist no more!
Thanks your guys for putting me over the top!
Little Bobby and Bunny will just have to learn to live with their generic Coco Krispies for another year.
Happy Mothers Day!


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## dcoscina (May 13, 2018)

This is a very underrated library. I've been using it for a nautical theme I've been sketching and it's working wonderfully


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## dcoscina (May 13, 2018)

ironbut said:


> I could resist no more!
> Thanks your guys for putting me over the top!
> Little Bobby and Bunny will just have to learn to live with their generic Coco Krispies for another year.
> Happy Mothers Day!


You will love it


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## Shubus (May 13, 2018)

dcoscina said:


> This is a very underrated library. I've been using it for a nautical theme I've been sketching and it's working wonderfully


I couldn't agree more!


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## Consona (May 14, 2018)

40% off offer was really good. But I didn't buy it. Imagine I want a trumpet in my composition, then I have to use another library for it... Totally defeats the point of buying this for its great sound.


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## Joshua Campbell (May 14, 2018)

I'm totally on the fence with this one as well... If the library had a bit more focus on the trumpet, it would have been a no brainer... For those that use this library, what Trumpets work well with it?


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## Parsifal666 (May 15, 2018)

Joshua Campbell said:


> I'm totally on the fence with this one as well... If the library had a bit more focus on the trumpet, it would have been a no brainer... For those that use this library, what Trumpets work well with it?



Chris Hein, EW Hollywood Brass.


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## Joshua Campbell (May 15, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> Chris Hein, EW Hollywood Brass.


Thanks!


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## Joshua Campbell (May 15, 2018)

Decided to go ahead and get it with the sale going on... Looking forward to having the download behind me so I can dive in.


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## Leo (May 15, 2018)

I'm big fan of Hermann music as well, but is this lib. useful for someone who already have all 3 Symphobias, Jaeger, Metropoilis 3...?It is no longer just a similar concept? Thanks for yours opinion.


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## Consona (May 15, 2018)

It's about the way you compose, not about combined trumpet + xylophone patches.

Plus you'll maybe need some live players anyway for some of those unusual articulations. But how many times did he use those? In Psycho and? You can do the Sinbad stuff with any good sample lib.



Or to put it better, to do exactly that stuff you'd need a live orchestra anyway.


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## Leo (May 15, 2018)

on semi budget projects I already use some live players, but in smaller projects I will definitely not pay them out of my own . Funny, but I still have clients who wants orchester without pay them. 
I asked whether this library is something unique that others (above named) are not.


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## Parsifal666 (May 15, 2018)

dcoscina said:


> This is a very underrated library. I've been using it for a nautical theme I've been sketching and it's working wonderfully



Beneath the 12 Mile Reef? 

and/or The Ghost annnnnnd.....


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## Parsifal666 (May 15, 2018)

Consona said:


> 40% off offer was really good. But I didn't buy it. Imagine I want a trumpet in my composition, then I have to use another library for it... Totally defeats the point of buying this for its great sound.



I mostly use my Chris Hein Trumpet. Sometimes I'll combine it with the GPO Xylophone.


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## Parsifal666 (May 15, 2018)

Consona said:


> It's about the way you compose, not about combined trumpet + xylophone patches.



Ya think? lol 

But hearing those sounds, working with them, studying how they are employed during Herrmann's scores...all those together provided me with more insight into his unique personality. I'd have paid twice what I did for even just that. The inspiration was immense, I even made a commission (enough to pay for the library three times over) writing a noir-ish set of cues with that library.

Not bad for a guy whose music basically sucks lol! My point is (I think), having fun with a sample library can be quite a positive force toward making great music with that library. You want to learn, and write, more.


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## muziksculp (May 15, 2018)

Hi,

I just finished installing BHOT, and I look forward to discover the vast, and unique sounds it offers.

I should add that I view the content of BHOT as a source for a lot of great sounds, that I can use in my compositions, and for layering with other libraries, it gives me new colors of sounds I can use, that other orchestral libraries don't, the possibilities of how, and when to use them is unlimited, it's all about experimenting, using this library in a creative manner.

i.e. I posted a thread a little while ago, asking if BHOT would be suitable to use for creating the famous _Conan The Barbarian_ soundtrack by Basil Poledouris. Well, I still think some of the sounds in this library can be very useful for emulating that type of sound. I plan to try making an epic type piece using this library, with the help of other libraries when needed, to try getting some of that CTB score's vibe. I have a feeling I'm going to have lots of fun experimenting with this library.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Parsifal666 (May 15, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just finished installing BHOT, and I look forward to discover the vast, and unique sounds it offers.
> 
> ...



You could do that, though a hugely strong case can be made that you could do that with any library, given the knowledge and will-to-learn.

Bernard was no joke in the epic department, that's for sure. He also tried new sounds in seemingly incongruous contexts: witness the brilliantly inventive Fahrenheit 451, whose director had a problem with all the xylophones and harps...until he listened again.


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## Parsifal666 (May 15, 2018)

Okay, I'll stop worshipping Bernard now and instead put Wagner back up on my computer altar.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (May 15, 2018)

Hi !

I know this is not the main topic, but here is a mockup I've done a few weeks ago : the Vertigo Prelude by Bernard Herrmann ! I don't have the BHOT, but I used mostly Orchestral Tools instruments (the Metropolis Series, Berlin Brass & First Chairs) + some other stuff.

Thought it was worth mentioning for the sake of the discussion. And of course, if someone did a mockup of this piece with the BH library, I would be very interested to hear it


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## dcoscina (May 15, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> You could do that, though a hugely strong case can be made that you could do that with any library, given the knowledge and will-to-learn.
> 
> Bernard was no joke in the epic department, that's for sure. He also tried new sounds in seemingly incongruous contexts: witness the brilliantly inventive Fahrenheit 451, whose director had a problem with all the xylophones and harps...until he listened again.


I worked with a guy who was a Herrmann scholar and I remember having access to lots of his scores. I wish I could find them now. :(

I'm also FB friends with Herrmann's daughter Dorothy but we mostly just discuss poodles since we both own them.


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## Parsifal666 (May 15, 2018)

dcoscina said:


> I worked with a guy who was a Herrmann scholar and I remember having access to lots of his scores. I wish I could find them now. :(
> 
> I'm also FB friends with Herrmann's daughter Dorothy but we mostly just discuss poodles since we both own them.



It's a little retarded that Bernard's full scores aren't printed on a mass market scale...but I believe that day will come, as it will for the other great film composers. The lines between film composer and concert composer will continue to blur. 

I mean, the fact that even Psycho hasn't received such treatment is pretty stupid. The impact that score had still resounds today, same with Vertigo, Mrs. Muir, Fahrenheit...aw hell I could go on and on.


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## PaulBrimstone (May 15, 2018)

Blimey @Parsifal666, you were right: this library is sheer inspiration. I'd been on the fence for ages but grabbed it in the sale — and have spent all day creating. Not playing; creating. I even seem to have sprouted horn-rimmed spectacles and a linen suit.


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## Parsifal666 (May 15, 2018)

PaulBrimstone said:


> Blimey @Parsifal666, you were right: this library is sheer inspiration. I'd been on the fence for ages but grabbed it in the sale — and have spent all day creating. Not playing; creating. I even seem to have sprouted horn-rimmed spectacles and a linen suit.



This was me. I got deep into Bernard's music and experimented left and right with BHOT. It was a wonderful journey, I learned a TON.


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## dcoscina (May 15, 2018)

I’m certain that everyone at Spitfire is elated to read such positive feedback. A filmmaker friend of mine asked why a developer would put out a library such as this which has a very specific sound and asked whether it would straightjacket the composer but I clarified that it in fact inspires creativity and sounds phenomenal.


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## lumcas (May 15, 2018)

I've been on the fence with this library since it was released but couldn't resist anymore. The exVAT price combined with 40% off on top was just too tempting. Can't wait to have the library under my fingers. Also thank you all for this very informative thread!


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## MaxOctane (May 15, 2018)

For anyone reading this thread who doesn't own the lib, I want to point out that it's *not *just for Herrmann-style music. Herrmann may have been the inspiration for the Spitfire team, and guided some of the instrument choices, (and was a very smart marketing move too)... but the library itself is quite flexible.


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## CT (May 15, 2018)

It sure is. I just did something very smooth, silky, and reverby including the strings and horns last night. It has huge range!


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## N.Caffrey (May 16, 2018)

could someone post a couple examples? haven't seen many!


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## madfloyd (May 17, 2018)

whitewasteland said:


> Hi !
> 
> I know this is not the main topic, but here is a mockup I've done a few weeks ago : the Vertigo Prelude by Bernard Herrmann ! I don't have the BHOT, but I used mostly Orchestral Tools instruments (the Metropolis Series, Berlin Brass & First Chairs) + some other stuff.
> 
> Thought it was worth mentioning for the sake of the discussion. And of course, if someone did a mockup of this piece with the BH library, I would be very interested to hear it




If you care to share the midi I would love to try BHOT with it.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (May 17, 2018)

madfloyd said:


> If you care to share the midi I would love to try BHOT with it.


Sure ! https://1drv.ms/u/s!AixpALAUNyH-rRDWwE3Dyui1rrBM (Here is the MIDI file)


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## procreative (May 17, 2018)

Quick question, when most of you are doing these mockups, are you playing in the notation by ear or are you importing scores? Just curious as wonder how you are transcribing these as this is a superb mockup (even choice of sounds and massaging of ccs aside)!


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (May 17, 2018)

@procreative : Thanks ! This one was transcribed after the handwritten score that you can find quite easily on the web. I didn't find any MIDI score to import. I'm not a very good reader, and I have to say Bernard Herrmann had a terrible handwriting, ahah. So, I guess it was 70% reading the score and 30% "guessing" by ear.


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## procreative (May 17, 2018)

whitewasteland said:


> @procreative : Thanks ! This one was transcribed after the handwritten score that you can find quite easily on the web. I didn't find any MIDI score to import. I'm not a very good reader, and I have to say Bernard Herrmann had a terrible handwriting, ahah. So, I guess it was 70% reading the score and 30% "guessing" by ear.



Well done then, a very good attempt and you probably leaned a lot from the process in terms of how BH combined textures and rhythms.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (May 17, 2018)

procreative said:


> Well done then, a very good attempt and you probably leaned a lot from the process in terms of how BH combined textures and rhythms.



Thank you ! This was a great exercice indeed, especially for the brass & woodwind writing. That "Vertigo Chord" (D Major upon Eb Minor) is really something !


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## madfloyd (May 18, 2018)

whitewasteland said:


> Hi !
> 
> I know this is not the main topic, but here is a mockup I've done a few weeks ago : the Vertigo Prelude by Bernard Herrmann ! I don't have the BHOT, but I used mostly Orchestral Tools instruments (the Metropolis Series, Berlin Brass & First Chairs) + some other stuff.
> 
> Thought it was worth mentioning for the sake of the discussion. And of course, if someone did a mockup of this piece with the BH library, I would be very interested to hear it





I tried but failed. There is no legato string patches so the opening arpeggio sounds terrible...


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## CT (May 18, 2018)

Uh, in the BH Toolkit? There are several legato string options... here it is with the half sections.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u4e2dh3pz1yr7hu/bhvertigoarp.wav?dl=0


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (May 18, 2018)

miket said:


> Uh, in the BH Toolkit? There are several legato string options... here it is with the half sections.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u4e2dh3pz1yr7hu/bhvertigoarp.wav?dl=0



Well, you have the right legato, now you have to find the right notes


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## CT (May 18, 2018)

Yeah, I only wanted to demonstrate that there are in fact legato strings in this library. I think Benny will forgive my 30 second rush-job.

I get it though. Just a few minutes ago I was listening to yet another person demo a horn with an incorrect take on Williams' Force theme.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (May 18, 2018)

Ahah, I know what you mean with that Force theme. But I was just kidding, really


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## axb312 (Dec 26, 2018)

Would anyone who owns BHCT mind posting an example of the strings doing runs?


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## Zoot_Rollo (Dec 26, 2018)

maybe tomorrow.


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## Scott Moran (Dec 26, 2018)

For the 'chords' articulation, where you hit one key for a chord on brass or strings, is there a way of knowing what chord you are playing?


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 26, 2018)

Scott Moran said:


> For the 'chords' articulation, where you hit one key for a chord on brass or strings, is there a way of knowing what chord you are playing?



It's in the manual, my friend. Toward the end is a chart.


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## JohnBMears (Dec 26, 2018)

This is the only item I had on my wishlist but I never received an email.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Dec 26, 2018)

JohnBMears said:


> This is the only item I had on my wishlist but I never received an email.




send a support ticket.

they will be in the office in a couple of hours.

i chatted with them on Facebook - they said that's the best way.


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## Scott Moran (Dec 26, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> It's in the manual, my friend. Toward the end is a chart.



Can you elaborate on this? I don't own it yet and looked at the manual as well as watched the vids. The manual lists the same key range (C0-B1) for major, minor and diminished chords. How would one play a Dmaj or Dmin if they have the same key range?


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## dpasdernick (Dec 26, 2018)

JohnBMears said:


> This is the only item I had on my wishlist but I never received an email.



Me too. Sent a ticket and no response at all. Maybe they don't want my money?


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## whiskers (Dec 26, 2018)

dpasdernick said:


> Me too. Sent a ticket and no response at all. Maybe they don't want my money?



I believe Spitfire Staff is on holiday until the 27th


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 27, 2018)

Scott Moran said:


> Can you elaborate on this? I don't own it yet and looked at the manual as well as watched the vids. The manual lists the same key range (C0-B1) for major, minor and diminished chords. How would one play a Dmaj or Dmin if they have the same key range?



(laughing in a friendly way) They don't. In this case, it's best to find out for yourself when you buy the library. Then you'll probably be amused at what you wrote as well.

Hope you get _*tons*_ of inspiration, my friend!


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## Zoot_Rollo (Dec 27, 2018)

downloading now.


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## Zero&One (Dec 27, 2018)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> downloading now.



Yay, you finally got your codes?

I am so happy with BHCT, best purchase of the year by far. Even the synths that come bundled are great, similar to Martyn Ware N.I.C I feel.


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## wilifordmusic (Dec 27, 2018)

Page 13 of the manual gives ranges and the corresponding chord families.
These are for the chord patches as well as the core patch which only has the common chords on a key switch.
Orchestration/voicing is up to you and your ears if you want to reproduce them.

Have fun with a great library. Steve


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 27, 2018)

James H said:


> Yay, you finally got your codes?
> 
> I am so happy with BHCT, best purchase of the year by far. Even the synths that come bundled are great, similar to Martyn Ware N.I.C I feel.



LOVE that Ondes Martenot, used it all over my second symphony, total Day the Earth Stood Still FUN!

It's such a cool library, hope you have lots of great fun with it.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Dec 27, 2018)

James H said:


> Yay, you finally got your codes?
> 
> I am so happy with BHCT, best purchase of the year by far. Even the synths that come bundled are great, similar to Martyn Ware N.I.C I feel.



I did!!!

It's a beast to download along with SStSP.

Glad i maxed out my new motherboard with 3 m.2 sticks.

Surprisingly, i'll have room to spare.


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## easyrider (Jul 27, 2020)

Does anyone have a cubase template please ?


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