# Reverb and routing



## airflamesred (Mar 8, 2015)

Looking around, I see people seem to advocate setting up the various articulations (string mercato, long, short etc) and putting them in a group track to then add reverb to that group. Then doing the same for woodwinds and perc etc.
So, to each of these groups I add an instance of reverb (valhalla in my case).

Looking at a general stage set up it has strings at the front then woodwinds, brass and perc at the back, more or less. 
So, to get a full sounding stage I can use pan and differing reverbs to achieve this?

I think my question is, What do I differ in the reverb settings as described above. Add more of it toward the back (ie send more) or change a particular element (pre delay or whatever)
OR, Am I getting this completely wrong.
Thanks in advance.


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 12, 2015)

> I think my question is, What do I differ in the reverb settings as described above. Add more of it toward the back (ie send more) or change a particular element (pre delay or whatever)
> OR, Am I getting this completely wrong.



What do you need to do for getting more depth?
*In easy words: *
Simulate the sound of an instrument which is sounding from farther away.
Example: different depths by changing the Early Reflections and the Dry signal (The tail is fixed in time and volume)

What does make an instrument sounding farther away?
mainly A) less direct sound and B) a darker sound more or less rich of reflection sounds. 

How to achieve that? Now it begins to be more complicated. Nevertheless I try to give you some practical tips.
Use a convolution reverb for getting real sounding depths. For finding a helpful Impuls Respons (IR) with nice Early Reflections try all of your IRs by set the dry/wet ratio to 100% wet. Comparing several IRs you will make out some of them which are able to put instruments deeper in the room than others. Use those "deep" ones.
Use now the dry/wet ratio for adjusting the balance between direct sound and the wet sound. The more you create a "far away depth" the more you also can cut the the High frequencies with an EQ. Do this with your ears so that the EQ nicely supports the far away feeling... 
Now the two most important things are done. Of course you can do more but this would be too much for now.

So what tells us the upper text as well: 
Not every reverb plugin is suitable as a depth builder. The test is easy: Turn the reverb on 100% wet and listen to it whether you feel - beside the reverb tail of course - a nice depth as well. Convolution Reverbs are often more suitable for this task than Algo-Reverbs.
When it comes to a nice fade out of the reverb (called the tail) Convolution Reverbs tend to sound more static than Algo-Reverbs.
So the power user often takes for the first 20-50ms the IR of a Convo-Rev. and for the Tail an Algo-Reverb. There are some Reverbs on the market which are already combined ones. For example the Hybrid-Reverb of VSL's SUITE EFFECTS.
I mostly combine the best reverbs of both sides (two separate reverbs).

*A Routing Possibility*





Hope you can see the routings because of the max 480pixels :( 
Othertwise here as Download: Reverb Concept 1280 pixels

*One last remark:*
Mixing a sample orchestra is an art. You can not learn it over night, you need a lot of "side knowledge" and practice. So some users like "automatic mixers" such as MIR or VSS because they don't want to take the hard way as I mentioned it above. Others are going this way or a similar one. Because there is no "right" way you always will get thousands of tips because all of us have found their own way. 
So take my upper description as a starting point, use always your ears together with your monitors. Every effort is "right" when it leads to the aim.

Happy Music
Beat Kaufmann


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 12, 2015)

Hi again
There was a competition for finding a new national anthem in Switzerland 2014.
Because I failed with my song :cry: I may now use my music for myself. So I decided to use it for a video about the mix of the orchestra (accompaniment).
Even if the video is in German (indeed Swiss German) you don't need to understand any word from 01:28...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wur_Thu2tYU
Start at 01:28

This video tells you another important thing when you are going to mix an orchestra:
Set your instruments first on a virtual stage and try then to achieve these positions acoustically! So you know whether your instrument is correct mixed or not.
Here is "http://www.musik-produktion-createc.ch/assets/downloads/549a2b96/Createc_Virtual_Stage.pdf (My Stage in the Video) " for you. Draw your own orchestra...


Have fun
_Beat Kaufmann _


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## airflamesred (Mar 13, 2015)

Thank you very much Sir, I shall look at this later.


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## airflamesred (Mar 14, 2015)

Just to thank you once again. Not only for the info here but also the wealth of info on your site. Should keep me busy for a while!


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 15, 2015)

:D 
My pleasure!


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