# Is 512gb SSD Enough for Film Scoring?



## Seabass001 (Apr 17, 2021)

Hello Everyone,

I'm a composer who's learning to score for media, and I really don't know tech. - barely at all. I'm new to all of this and keep finding contradicting posts on what I'll need.

I'm setting up my DAW/rig from scratch. For my needs and minimum experience, I'm only considering a Mac laptop with Logic Pro. Refurbished or used. I was going to try and hold off until the new M1 machines are out, but I can't wait.

To learn how to use Logic, I want to take a symphony composed in notation software and make a film-quality recording of it. 

It will be a lot of tracks in Logic; from what I can tell the way to do it is to set up several separate tracks for some instruments like violins, for example. Regular strings, pizzicato strings, harmonics/false harmonics, and other special playing techniques. So there might be 100+ separate tracks, some with plugins and effects.

I'm considering buying something like this:








Refurbished 13.3-inch MacBook Pro 2.3GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 with Retina display- Space Gray


Originally released May 2020Backlit Magic Keyboard including 4 arrow keys in an inverted-T arrangementTouch Bar and Touch ID sensor13.3-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit display with IPS technology; 2560-by-1600 native resolution at 227 pixels per inch32GB of 3733MHz LPDDR4X onboard memory512GB...



www.apple.com





An external monitor or two will be used, so I don't think the small screen size will bother me. Right now I'm using a 2013 13" MBPro with 8gb RAM and 251 SSD - it freezes up during playback in the notation software.

1. Is the 512GB SSD hard drive enough if I run the sample libraries from an external SSD HD?
1a. Or would I need an external HD?
2. Could I somehow wipe clean this 2013 MBPro to use as a slave?
3. What else do I need to consider other than processor, RAM and SSD capacity?
4. Is the 4-core i5 processor enough, or should I make sure it's an i7?

Thanks!

Seabass


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## YuyaoSG (Apr 17, 2021)

Hello,

If you want to run some good sound libraries and your DAW smoothly. 

I recommend at least 16GB RAM and 2-4T SSD. Another choice is 2T SSD+4THHD(7200).

About CPU. I recommend at least i7.


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## JohnG (Apr 17, 2021)

Hi there,

It might be a good idea to let other members know what kind of music you want to compose. For example, you could specify, "I write mostly beats and want to do pop/ hip hop / contemporary radio-play songs." Or, "I want to write just like Alan Silvestri's 'Avengers' scores." 

You can do a lot with a little, of course, if you're patient enough, but it can be frustrating if your platform is insufficient.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 17, 2021)

Until recently, my main rig was a 2013 MB Pro i7 with 512GB. As long as you are mindful with storage, you’ll get by fine with 512. You’ll definitely need external SSD’s for your libraries (USB 3 connection is fine). I’d also invest in an audio interface. And yes, go with an i7 w/16GB Ram.


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## Barrel Maker (Apr 17, 2021)

The short answer is _probably. _There are many orchestral sample libraries which require less than 512 GB. In regards to the 100+ track projects you referred to, the bottleneck there will probably not be the size of the hard drive, but the type of the hard drive, the connection of the hard drive, and of course, the obvious factors (e.g. processor, ram, audio interface/drivers, etc.).


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## proxima (Apr 17, 2021)

External SSDs are inexpensive and work really well. I use them on my iMac (where the hybrid SSD/HD would not handle samples nearly so well).

A 2 TB external USB SSD is ~$210. If you're nervous about tech and space, and can afford to buy something like that up front, then you won't have to worry about moving libraries when your internal disk fills up. Do budget another $100 for a 4 TB external hard drive for a local backup.

You mentioned wanting to convert a symphonic score into a mockup (paraphrasing), so your limitation will _probably_ be RAM (the 32 GB in the linked Macbook) before CPU. Nothing you can do about that while staying with a Macbook.

Do you need an external audio interface? See this thread for a discussion. My answer would probably be to wait and see; plenty of people get by with the built-in Macbook's sound card.

Apart from disk space, once you hit the limits of your system all is not lost; Logic has improved its ability to have tracks disabled until you need them, and you can freeze tracks to free up resources. Given that you're looking at refurb units I'm suspecting you're trying to be careful with money, and I don't think the i7 provides the best value as the marginal spend (and 4 cores is the max on 13" models, as I recall). Instead, you're going to have a _much_ more time-consuming effort to choose the sample libraries you like.


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## Seabass001 (Apr 17, 2021)

YuyaoSG said:


> Hello,
> 
> If you want to run some good sound libraries and your DAW smoothly.
> 
> ...


Hello, and thanks for the feedback. Are you talking about 2-4T SSD built into the laptop, or external HDs?


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## Seabass001 (Apr 17, 2021)

JohnG said:


> Hi there,
> 
> It might be a good idea to let other members know what kind of music you want to compose. For example, you could specify, "I write mostly beats and want to do pop/ hip hop / contemporary radio-play songs." Or, "I want to write just like Alan Silvestri's 'Avengers' scores."
> 
> You can do a lot with a little, of course, if you're patient enough, but it can be frustrating if your platform is insufficient.


Hi John, I'm teaching myself to score for film/TV/media and right now can only write for real musicians to play, from short piano/violin pieces to a symphony. For now, I'd like to begin by creating a realistic-sounding orchestral recording of a symphony. Don't think I'll be doing too much with synths or beats yet.
Seems like I'll use mostly symphonic and percussion libraries, and I might record some of the instruments, like some percussion/strings/piano to give some realism. Hopefully. But to start I mostly want to learn Logic by manipulating midi tracks to sound as realistic as possible.
I'm hoping to buy a computer that will meet these needs for a couple of years before needing an upgrade.
I'll buy stuff as I progress, so am trying to keep in mind that later on I'll add an audio interface, some live recorded tracks...but for now to begin need a computer that can run Logic and orchestral libraries.
Thanks!


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## Seabass001 (Apr 17, 2021)

proxima said:


> External SSDs are inexpensive and work really well. I use them on my iMac (where the hybrid SSD/HD would not handle samples nearly so well).
> 
> A 2 TB external USB SSD is ~$210. If you're nervous about tech and space, and can afford to buy something like that up front, then you won't have to worry about moving libraries when your internal disk fills up. Do budget another $100 for a 4 TB external hard drive for a local backup.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Sometimes I wish I knew PCs better since there's more bang for the Buck there, but I know I'd spend half of my time troubleshooting something, and the other half trying to figure out what I did wrong trying to solve that initial problem and making things worse...
I'll check out the external interface thread.
Seems like, for now, if I manage the laptop's storage space well by keeping libraries on one external SSD HD, backup the work to another, disable tracks while working - a 32gb RAM Macbook should work?


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## Paulogic (Apr 18, 2021)

Memory and storage are both to be considered in what you (will) need.
External SSD's, always possible to buy bigger, faster and with USB-C, your good for some time.
32 GB ram, works fine for a lot but can still be not enough, if you go all out on tracks.

Being a Apple adept (read : nerd), the MBpro, iMac 21 and new Mini's can not be upgraded.
That is a shame and in my eyes almost a crime.
My mini is maxed out to 32, but this will be, sometime in the future, not be enough. And then
we can only go to the 27 inch and MacPro's for some mega-ram solutions. Not everybody can
afford those machines. My Work iMac is 5 years and still going strong, but the price was 4x
the price of my 2020 Mini (which has better specs, except on graphics)


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## Solarsentinel (Apr 18, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I'm a composer who's learning to score for media, and I really don't know tech. - barely at all. I'm new to all of this and keep finding contradicting posts on what I'll need.
> 
> ...


Hi!
1 - Yes if you load samples libraries from another SSD, the main SSD of 512go of your MB will be fine.
2 - 512 go from the main hard drive is good, but you must buy an external SSD, or HDD for your samples libraries.
3 - I think minimum 16go of RAM is necessary, and 32 go is recommanded for what you'll tend to do.
4- An I5 will be fine with 6 cores, but i recommand an i7 to you (if you have the budget). It will be better if you'll paln to use more than 100 tracks, and it will be more future proof if your template will grow.


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## Seabass001 (Apr 18, 2021)

If you were in my situation and had a budget of around $2,000, what would you get?

Budget includes a portable (laptop, mini?) Mac computer and external HDs.

Thank you.


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## el-bo (Apr 18, 2021)

Unless you absolutely need a laptop, perhaps consider saving noney and grtting the M1 Mini. You could buy a large external ssd with the savings or buy a cheap laptop for whatever your portable needs are. That money could even perhaps be put towards the new M1/2 laptop, when it lands.


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## mybadmemory (Apr 18, 2021)

Internal storage is only needed for the OS and applications. Samples are usually stored on external SSDs. Samsung T5 and T7 are popular choices.

I would however get an as good processor and as much ram as possible within the budget. i5 and 16 GB might work but i7 and 32 GB would be a much safer bet.


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## Paulogic (Apr 18, 2021)

Yep or the new M1 with 32 GB. I sold one to a customer for Audio/Video purposes, as a small
extra machine. They are very excited about the performance and can't wait to see higher models
become available.
I'm thinking about using one for testing against my 2020 I7-6-core 32 GB version with Cubase
and already a nice collection of VI's (Komplete 12 and extra's, Falcon and extra's,...)


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## el-bo (Apr 18, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Internal storage is only needed for the OS and applications.


Actually, that’s not exactly true. While one can normally allocate data to separate drives, after the fact, the installation of software will often default to the OS drive. This issue can be compounded when the installation is an all-in-one download, expand and install process. This can often require double, or more, of the size of the actual library.


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## proxima (Apr 18, 2021)

Paulogic said:


> Yep or the new M1 with 32 GB. I sold one to a customer for Audio/Video purposes, as a small
> extra machine. They are very excited about the performance and can't wait to see higher models
> become available.
> I'm thinking about using one for testing against my 2020 I7-6-core 32 GB version with Cubase
> and already a nice collection of VI's (Komplete 12 and extra's, Falcon and extra's,...)


Which M1 model offers 32 GB? For Mac Minis and 13" MBP, all I see is maxing out at 16 GB.


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## proxima (Apr 18, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> Thanks! Sometimes I wish I knew PCs better since there's more bang for the Buck there, but I know I'd spend half of my time troubleshooting something, and the other half trying to figure out what I did wrong trying to solve that initial problem and making things worse...
> I'll check out the external interface thread.
> Seems like, for now, if I manage the laptop's storage space well by keeping libraries on one external SSD HD, backup the work to another, disable tracks while working - a 32gb RAM Macbook should work?


One external SSD for samples (2 TB), internal SSD for the Logic files (Can be 256 GB or 512 GB), and an external _HD_ for backups. That external hard drive will be much cheaper (~$75-100) and bigger (4 TB would pair well with a 2 TB SSD and your internal drive and gives Time Machine a lot of space to back up).

Even with the cheapest Apple-provided refurb, you can't get a 32 GB model with those two external drives for less than $2000 (especially with tax).


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## mybadmemory (Apr 18, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Actually, that’s not exactly true. While one can normally allocate data to separate drives, after the fact, the installation of software will often default to the OS drive. This issue can be compounded when the installation is an all-in-one download, expand and install process. This can often require double, or more, of the size of the actual library.


Most libraries I own have allowed me install directly to external drives from the get go, through Kontakt, SINE, and Spitfire player.


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## el-bo (Apr 18, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Most libraries I own have allowed me install directly to external drives from the get go, through Kontakt, SINE, and Spitfire player.


Most, I'm sure. But Native Instruments, at least, seem quite happy to buck that trend. The more they start to include their own sample libraries and the tie-ins with 3rd party developers, the more this is going to become an issue.

They really should sort this out, considering how much of the industry uses Apple computers and thus likely having to deal with the realities of accepting much smaller internal storage


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## Seabass001 (Apr 18, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Unless you absolutely need a laptop, perhaps consider saving noney and grtting the M1 Mini. You could buy a large external ssd with the savings or buy a cheap laptop for whatever your portable needs are. That money could even perhaps be put towards the new M1/2 laptop, when it lands.


That would be pretty ideal, but from what little I know 16GB RAM probably won't be enough to smoothly work in Logic with the symphony I'm going to mockup, or for symphonic film scoring I'm learning.

Benchmark tests look great, but seems like those tests don't always accurately reflect real-world working conditions.

Anyone have experience with the M1 and 16gb RAM in a similar situation with big templates, lots of samples, scoring to picture, etc?


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## Seabass001 (Apr 18, 2021)

Paulogic said:


> Yep or the new M1 with 32 GB. I sold one to a customer for Audio/Video purposes, as a small
> extra machine. They are very excited about the performance and can't wait to see higher models
> become available.
> I'm thinking about using one for testing against my 2020 I7-6-core 32 GB version with Cubase
> and already a nice collection of VI's (Komplete 12 and extra's, Falcon and extra's,...)


Which M1s are available with 32gb RAM?


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## JohnG (Apr 18, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> Seems like I'll use mostly symphonic and percussion libraries, and I might record some of the instruments, like some percussion/strings/piano to give some realism.


some people are talking about this M1 debut as a paradigm shift -- that we will be able to do a tremendous amount with far less RAM than in the past.

Maybe?

I've been at this for a while so I have extensive computer resources to support it, including a just-purchased Mac Pro with 384GB RAM. Many people urged me to wait as long as possible but I couldn't either.

I know that PCs seem cheaper but the last Mac I had was a 2009 model (not a typo) that I used until a month ago. Besides, I prefer the Apple OS.

*Used / Refurbished?*

Could you buy something used off of eBay (or elsewhere) so that you don't burn a bunch of money on a new computer, only to wish in six or ten months that you'd waited? That way maybe you could recover the money spent on the used computer and put it toward something more "shiny?"

I do doubt that you can really be satisfied over the long term with 16 or even 32 GB of RAM, but if you are a student, or just don't have the money, I certainly wouldn't urge you to wait, because you have to "learn" how your sample libraries respond just as you need to learn how players respond to notation. The sooner you choose a great-sounding library and get on with it, the better. I would suggest looking at Spitfire, given your background. They have at least one library that's free to the impecunious student -- it's basic, but sounds pretty nice to me. Spitfire (and many others) offer fairly generous educational discounts.

Use your own ears and try to get really excellent headphones (or speakers / amp if you have them) to choose samples, and get the best-sounding ones you can possibly afford.


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## Seabass001 (Apr 18, 2021)

My portability issue isn't for working on location, but we'll be in Europe for several months sometime this year - when it's possible again - and we're traveling with a small family, my violin, etc. so really I need something that can fit in my carry-on or can be crazy-well protected in a check-in suitcase. Although, I don't think I'd risk putting it in a suitcase to be tossed around/dropped/ran over...

I was looking at refurbished iMacs before we knew we'd be gone for so long at some point this year.

What about this:



Thanks so much, everyone. This is a brand new world to me and I keep discovering new things every minute - like that Mac Pro model linked above - apologies for questions being all over the place.


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## el-bo (Apr 18, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> That would be pretty ideal, but from what little I know 16GB RAM probably won't be enough to smoothly work in Logic with the symphony I'm going to mockup, or for symphonic film scoring I'm learning.
> 
> Benchmark tests look great, but seems like those tests don't always accurately reflect real-world working conditions.
> 
> Anyone have experience with the M1 and 16gb RAM in a similar situation with big templates, lots of samples, scoring to picture, etc?


Sorry, man! Didn't really consider the ram, which would likely be the real bottleneck.

With regard to ssd's. though, I'd say 512 should be fine, as long as you have external space and keep up on the house-keeping


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 18, 2021)

Paulogic said:


> Yep or the new M1 with 32 GB.


Where have you seen this?


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## Seabass001 (Apr 18, 2021)

JohnG said:


> some people are talking about this M1 debut as a paradigm shift -- that we will be able to do a tremendous amount with far less RAM than in the past.
> 
> Maybe?
> 
> ...


You're reading my mind!

My 2013 MB Pro is on it's last legs, but I'm astonished with its reliability so far. Bought it refurbished from Apple in 2014. Apple drives me crazy with the annoying little things they do (Can't upgrade RAM or processor!? Can't charge my iPhone AND use the headphones at the same time without buying another accessory because they took away the 3.5mm headphone jack!? Where'd I put that headphone adaptor...!?!? Can't upgrade my GarageBand because the Apple ID I created 10 years ago was lost, and new one doesn't show I had GB!?) Some of that is my fault, but I had no idea losing the ability to sign into Apple ID would be so catastrophic. Now that info's in the vault; never again.

I'm checking out eBay, Amazon Renewed, Apple Refurbished, etc. (suggestions for other, reliable/honest dealers are very welcome.)

Yes. I need to get a rig set up with Logic so I can start learning ASAP.

I'm all about used equipment if the dealer's reputable and has a return policy, and if this new career works out I should be able to upgrade to what I need when the time comes. For now, as a mostly-out-of-work-for-a-pandemic-year gigging musician I really need to be careful with money. Which is really hard and intimidating when you don't know what you're doing...

Spitfire libraries sound great, and before I lost access to GB on this MB Pro I was just beginning to mess around with Spitfire LABS. Instant improvement over notation software's 90s synth accordion symphony. But I have a ways to go to even feel comfortable with GB basics.

I'm considering a new M1 Mac Mini with 16gb. Might get buyer's remorse when the new MB Pros come out, but I just can't wait that long. REALLY hesitant about the 16gb RAM limitation, though.


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## proxima (Apr 18, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> My portability issue isn't for working on location, but we'll be in Europe for several months sometime this year - when it's possible again - and we're traveling with a small family, my violin, etc. so really I need something that can fit in my carry-on or can be crazy-well protected in a check-in suitcase. Although, I don't think I'd risk putting it in a suitcase to be tossed around/dropped/ran over...
> 
> I was looking at refurbished iMacs before we knew we'd be gone for so long at some point this year.
> 
> ...



I'd be hesitant to buy an 8 year old refurb, but the Mac Pros do have a way of lasting for a while. The trash can Macs can also have their RAM upgraded quite cheaply, though if you're uncomfortable with computer hardware you might find that unappealing to do yourself. It's certainly a better value if you don't care about the portability of a laptop; these are pro machines still very much in use by pros. I'd look around a bit at other refurb trash cans for one with more cores, or one that isn't physically quite as old (what really matters is how well it is maintained, but it's hard to know).


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## el-bo (Apr 18, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> I'm considering a new M1 Mac Mini with 16gb. Might get buyer's remorse when the new MB Pros come out, but I just can't wait that long. REALLY hesitant about the 16gb RAM limitation, though.


You seem to be in the unfortunate position of falling through a few different gaps, and even though I initially recommended it I'm not 100% sure...yet...if it's the right recommendation. There is still the option of picking up a 2nd-hand Mini from 2018/20, for example.

What Virtual orchestral instruments are you planning on using to learn with? Are you willing to compromise on quality at an early stage, so that you'll be able to get much more out of your RAM?


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## proxima (Apr 18, 2021)

el-bo said:


> You seem to be in the unfortunate position of falling through a few different gaps, and even though I initially recommended it I'm not 100% sure...yet...if it's the right recommendation. There is still the option of picking up a 2nd-hand Mini from 2018/20, for example.
> 
> What Virtual orchestral instruments are you planning on using to learn with? Are you willing to compromise on quality at an early stage, so that you'll be able to get much more out of your RAM?


Yeah, 16 GB just isn't enough for symphonic templates. I just loaded up a pretty basic template of just EW Hollywood strings and brass and Logic hit 16 GB all by itself.


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## el-bo (Apr 18, 2021)

proxima said:


> Yeah, 16 GB just isn't enough for symphonic templates. I just loaded up a pretty basic template of just EW Hollywood strings and brass and Logic hit 16 GB all by itself.


I don't own it, but isn't EW stuff quite RAM hungry?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 18, 2021)

el-bo said:


> I don't own it, but isn't EW stuff quite RAM hungry?


It definitely is for Diamond, as it has additional mic’s. Gold is much more Ram friendly, and totally useable with 16GB.


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## proxima (Apr 18, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> It definitely is for Diamond, as it has additional mic’s. Gold is much more Ram friendly, and totally useable with 16GB.


This was Gold, actually. I'm sure it's doable, but this was the Synthestration template (and I don't own the choirs, woodwinds, or percussion)


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 18, 2021)

proxima said:


> This was Gold, actually. I'm sure it's doable, but this was the Synthestration template (and I don't own the choirs, woodwinds, or percussion)


Just be picky with your patch selections. When I was on the MacBook, I typically ran about 20 tracks of HB and HS....along with other third party stuff. But very limiting for full sized orchestral templates. Thanks to the DAW gods we have track disabling is Cubase and Logic.


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## JohnG (Apr 18, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> REALLY hesitant about the 16gb RAM limitation


I would be too. You can use the super light patches in Hollywood Strings or LABS from Spitfire, but sooner or later you're going to need a lot more than 16 gigs.

I'll email the guy who's sold me refurbished / enhanced used Macs in the past and PM you if he's still doing it.


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## jmauz (Apr 18, 2021)

The sample library world is a rabbit hole. Before you finally crawl out you'll have many terabytes of samples. For that reason alone you may want to prepare yourself and go buy as much disk as you can afford.


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## Seabass001 (Apr 18, 2021)

el-bo said:


> You seem to be in the unfortunate position of falling through a few different gaps, and even though I initially recommended it I'm not 100% sure...yet...if it's the right recommendation. There is still the option of picking up a 2nd-hand Mini from 2018/20, for example.
> 
> What Virtual orchestral instruments are you planning on using to learn with? Are you willing to compromise on quality at an early stage, so that you'll be able to get much more out of your RAM?


I'm not totally sure which libraries I'll use yet; one of the many things I'm trying to figure out. I'll probably choose sample libraries after I get the new computer, so I know what might work best with what I have. 

Any recommendations or reviews where they compare quality vs. compromises of libraries?

Another gap to fall through is that when the symphony mockup is done I'd like to use it as an example of my composing for trying to get more writing gigs. Will want to put on Spotify, etc. and be able to share with people. I have some pieces with live players, but without a symphony orchestra performing this for real - very unlikely this year - a mockup is the best I can do. I have a publisher, and would like this symphony to be license-ready.

Used Mini with 32gb RAM is looking like a top contender.

Thanks for the input!


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## Seabass001 (Apr 18, 2021)

JohnG said:


> I would be too. You can use the super light patches in Hollywood Strings or LABS from Spitfire, but sooner or later you're going to need a lot more than 16 gigs.
> 
> I'll email the guy who's sold me refurbished / enhanced used Macs in the past and PM you if he's still doin
> 
> ...


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## Seabass001 (Apr 18, 2021)

Thanks, JohnG. That would be fantastic.


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## Seabass001 (Apr 18, 2021)

jmauz said:


> The sample library world is a rabbit hole. Before you finally crawl out you'll have many terabytes of samples. For that reason alone you may want to prepare yourself and go buy as much disk as you can afford.


I can see that happening. Luckily, my wallet will keep my ears in check...

And since I'm just starting, and am super impatient to learn all this stuff, and have very limited time - I'll (hopefully) focus those limited resources to learning Logic, and making a symphonic recording that makes momma proud.


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## Seabass001 (Apr 18, 2021)

el-bo said:


> You seem to be in the unfortunate position of falling through a few different gaps, and even though I initially recommended it I'm not 100% sure...yet...if it's the right recommendation. There is still the option of picking up a 2nd-hand Mini from 2018/20, for example.
> 
> What Virtual orchestral instruments are you planning on using to learn with? Are you willing to compromise on quality at an early stage, so that you'll be able to get much more out of your RAM?


It looks like the most powerful processor available for the 2018 Mac Minis is the 6-core Intel Core i5.

Would that work? Is it more important to have more cores, or a more modern 4-core i7?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 18, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> Would that work? Is it more important to have more cores, or a more modern 4-core i7?


It would work, but I highly recommend going the i7 route. Try and get the 6-core 8th gen if you can!


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## Seabass001 (Apr 18, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> It would work, but I highly recommend going the i7 route. Try and get the 6-core 8th gen if you can!


Now I'm seriously considering just getting the new M1 Mini or 13" MB Pro with 16gb RAM and 1TB SSD.

Since I'm not working on real projects with real deadlines yet, but am just learning, some bottlenecking will be irritating, but hopefully not catastrophic. If I keep a glass of ouzo next to me, it should be alright...

If I went that route, what else would I need to consider?

Connections/ports?

I have a midi keyboard, will need a typing keyboard for the Mini, a trackball/mouse with either, eventually an audio interface, 1-2 external screens/monitors, 2 (?) external HDs, headphones...no speaker monitors for now.

What else for a good, basic setup to start learning, but also be able to create pro-/film-quality symphonic tracks as I learn? Even if friends help with mastering, etc.

Thanks!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 18, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> Now I'm seriously considering just getting the new M1 Mini or 13" MB Pro with 16gb RAM and 1TB SSD.


I have no experience with the M1, hopefully others can offer insight. The downside is software/hardware compatibility and the Ram....which you’re stuck with. There may be a newer model around the corner!


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## proxima (Apr 18, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> Now I'm seriously considering just getting the new M1 Mini or 13" MB Pro with 16gb RAM and 1TB SSD.
> 
> Since I'm not working on real projects with real deadlines yet, but am just learning, some bottlenecking will be irritating, but hopefully not catastrophic. If I keep a glass of ouzo next to me, it should be alright...


I still think something like a refurbed 6 core Mac Mini with 32 GB of RAM (or a trash can mac pro) would serve you better than either the M1 Mini or the MBP. Also, keep in mind that the M1 Macs are new enough that various bits of hardware and software are still not supporting it (they are not Intel compatible chips), though most mainstream stuff will.



Seabass001 said:


> I have a midi keyboard, will need a typing keyboard for the Mini, a trackball/mouse with either, eventually an audio interface, 1-2 external screens/monitors, 2 (?) external HDs, headphones...no speaker monitors for now.
> 
> What else for a good, basic setup to start learning, but also be able to create pro-/film-quality symphonic tracks as I learn? Even if friends help with mastering, etc.


For everything on your list, there are many (often dozens) of fairly recent threads here on VI-C discussing good options for people looking to stay within a budget. Please go search for them.


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## river angler (Apr 18, 2021)

To the posters opening thread... IN A NUTSHELL..

Imperative: separate SSD drives for system (where your DAW program runs from), audio scratch (recording drive for audio and midi/project files) and library content. With your 2013 MacBook that means two 1TB external SSD drives for the library and audio scratch respectively. You can buy something like the Samsung T3's that are ready to go or grab 2 x 1Tb Crucial MX500 SSD drives and sling them into caddies with USB 3 connection. Pointless looking at the latest tech speeds for SSD's as your 2013 MBPro is older generation maximum speed. I'm on SSD Crucial MX500's on a 2012 MBPro, admittedly with 16GB RAM, and never have problems running up to 80 tracks each with single instances of either Chris Hein or Orchestral Tools orchestral libraries in Logic even without purging! If you do get the "drive too slow" errors occurring you can always activate the freeze function to free up some CPU/RAM.

You must also have enough temporary storage space on your internal system SSD in order to receive the initial download files as most developers do not provide custom location of library content on initial download installation. If your current 512GB internal drive has at least 250GB free you should be fine on this score. If not replace it with a 1TB!

Re downloading/installing libraries first I strongly suggest investing in the full version of Kontakt as it is the standard platform for full developer library support. The Native Access downloader makes installation a breeze where you can relocate the library content files to your external library SSD. 

You should be good to go even with only 8GB RAM as SSD drives are fast enough to still play back samples when sample librariy instances in Kontakt for example are being purged. Purging however is reliant also partly on the speed of the CP chip in your Mac. However this set up is the minimum I would consider if I was stuck with that 2013 MacBook.

Bare in mind that diligent housekeeping on your MacBook as well as making sure you don't have other programs open like Safari for example while working in Logic is key to running an efficient DAW.


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## JohnG (Apr 18, 2021)

@river angler 

I don't agree with any of your advice. 

You don't need three drives, you will go absolutely insane trying to work with 8GB of RAM and the first thing to buy is not Kontakt.

I am also 100% against buying "starter" sample libraries that are cheap, if the reason you're buying is solely price. By doing that, you waste time; you don't learn to "drive" the libraries that you will need to switch to to make great-sounding mockups. You want to buy the library that sounds the best to you. Never compromise on that, even if you have to bounce tracks all day long.


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## river angler (Apr 18, 2021)

JohnG said:


> @river angler
> 
> I don't agree with any of your advice.
> 
> ...


OK ! maybe I am jumping the gun here a little! He could just make do with the free Kontakt player that comes with libraries he may choose to acquire.
I too am a strong advocate of buying quality libraries first time round and also getting to know how to ring out the very best of any library to nurture your own compositional skills and hopefully musical identity.

It's just in my experience the separate SSD drives are a night and day change for the better regarding workflow. There's always a compromise to creative flow if one keeps to a multi-tasking drive. I noticed this change immediately I upgraded my own system this way a long time back!


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## river angler (Apr 18, 2021)

JohnG said:


> @river angler
> 
> I don't agree with any of your advice.
> 
> You don't need three drives, you will go absolutely insane trying to work with 8GB of RAM and the first thing to buy is not Kontakt.


I didn't actually mention the full Kontakt library for its bundled Factory Library!


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## river angler (Apr 18, 2021)

river angler said:


> I didn't actually mention the full Kontakt library for its bundled Factory Library!





JohnG said:


> @river angler
> 
> I don't agree with any of your advice.
> 
> You don't need three drives, you will go absolutely insane trying to work with 8GB of RAM


I was presuming the OP would also be running some kind of audio too? I've never worked with 8GB RAM and maybe regardless of separate drives it would prove to be too taxing. However running everything off the system drive as we all know eventually grinds things to a halt!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 18, 2021)

river angler said:


> never have problems running up to 80 tracks each with single instances of either Chris Hein or Orchestral Tools orchestral libraries in Logic even without purging!


Seriously? That's crazy that you can load up 80 tracks of OT libraries. Good on you!

There's also no need to download libraries to the internal drive, most downloads offer destination options. I'm not aware of any that require a download to the main drive, but perhaps there are a few.


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## YuyaoSG (Apr 18, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> Hello, and thanks for the feedback. Are you talking about 2-4T SSD built into the laptop, or external HDs?


Yes, better be an external SSD. I don't recommend replacing the SSD that MacBook already have.


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## jbuhler (Apr 18, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Seriously? That's crazy that you can load up 80 tracks of OT libraries. Good on you!


When I had 32GB in my 2015 i7 iMac I could barely load Berlin Strings. And I couldn't get anywhere close to that with Capsule libraries even when I upgraded to 64GB. Now that Logic doesn't load unused track, they could be in template, but I couldn't use 80 tracks worth. I could barely run one mic with Berlin Strings and have room for the rest of the (non-Capsule) orchestra at 64GB. (BS would be on 5 keyswitched tracks.) It's better now that I have 128GB and am running an i9 iMac.

To OP: I think the cheapest way to lots of memory and being able to run Logic as the main DAW is to get an Apple machine for your DAW host and a PC loaded with memory but otherwise rudimentary as you can get to act as a VEP server for the samples. You can get the Apple machine first (preferably minimum of 32GB but 16 GB in a pinch) and VEP and the sample serving PC later.


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## river angler (Apr 18, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Seriously? That's crazy that you can load up 80 tracks of OT libraries. Good on you!
> 
> There's also no need to download libraries to the internal drive, most downloads offer destination options. I'm not aware of any that require a download to the main drive, but perhaps there are a few.


Well actually even though it's the Inspire Series I'm referencing which is less resourceful than the Full Berlin I actually use a lot more Chris Hein amidst those 80 which is equivalent in size to Berlin main. Also plugin dynamics pretty much on every track too!

When I was using 127GB drives I could run about 50 max before the cpu would start stalling. It is an i7 chip set though which has always been pretty rapid. Also I have replaced the DVD with one of those 1TB drives so I'm actually only using one external.

I've had my MBPro since new in 2012 running my audio interface off the firewire 800 port. Even though I should really bounce a monitor mix track of the mockups when I'm dubbing audio I actually find it records fine as is. Obviously if I'm running projects towards 100 tracks and beyond which isn't very often that's the only time when purging and freezing really have to come into play.

If my MBP ever conked out I'd go out and get another one instantly! I'm sure there must be a few fellow pros out there still working on these on the hush hush! I'll never go back to a desktop nor a modern Mac now. Of course technology moves on but after 9 years of this setup I haven't seen the need let replace it let alone any alternative scenario that surpasses it yet!

And the best part is it is portable too!

The modern MBPro is ridiculous with it's minimal connection power and extortionate price to boot! ...


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## river angler (Apr 18, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> When I had 32GB in my 2015 i7 iMac I could barely load Berlin Strings. And I couldn't get anywhere close to that with Capsule libraries even when I upgraded to 64GB. Now that Logic doesn't load unused track, they could be in template, but I couldn't use 80 tracks worth. I could barely run one mic with Berlin Strings and have room for the rest of the (non-Capsule) orchestra at 64GB. (BS would be on 5 keyswitched tracks.) It's better now that I have 128GB and am running an i9 iMac.
> 
> To OP: I think the cheapest way to lots of memory and being able to run Logic as the main DAW is to get an Apple machine for your DAW host and a PC loaded with memory but otherwise rudimentary as you can get to act as a VEP server for the samples. You can get the Apple machine first (preferably minimum of 32GB but 16 GB in a pinch) and VEP and the sample serving PC later.


That really surprises me! ..I'm running on High Sierra by the way.. maybe I just got lucky with the way I have things set up?


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## jbuhler (Apr 18, 2021)

river angler said:


> That really surprises me! ..I'm running on High Sierra by the way.. maybe I just got lucky with the way I have things set up?


This is keyswitched, and I think each of the Capsule keyswitch modules holds a dozen articulations, and if I want to load all the articulations I need more than one module. So if all of that was divided out an articulations per track, I'd probably be up near 80 tracks, maybe more. And Berlin Strings is by far the worst of the Capsule libraries. But I've heard others say that you need about 100GB of RAM to reliably load the full Berlin Orchestra. The Sine version of the OT instruments, btw, do not require nearly the same amount of RAM for me.


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## river angler (Apr 18, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> This is keyswitched, and I think each of the Capsule keyswitch modules holds a dozen articulations, and if I want to load all the articulations I need more than one module. So if all of that was divided out an articulations per track, I'd probably be up near 80 tracks, maybe more. And Berlin Strings is by far the worst of the Capsule libraries. But I've heard others say that you need about 100GB of RAM to reliably load the full Berlin Orchestra. The Sine version of the OT instruments, btw, do not require nearly the same amount of RAM for me.


You must have missed my previous post!... I'm running the Kontakt version no problem with mainly Chris Hein and Berlin Inspire (see previous post!)


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## jbuhler (Apr 18, 2021)

river angler said:


> You must have missed my previous post!... I'm running the Kontakt version no problem with mainly Chris Hein and Berlin Inspire (see previous post!)


The Berlin Inspire patches are not nearly as demanding as the regular Berlin Symphony patches since they have fewer articulations and fewer dynamic layers, so there's that. I'm also not clear if you are running an articulation per track or using keyswitches. I think it's the former but I wasn't certain.


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## river angler (Apr 18, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> The Berlin Inspire patches are not nearly as demanding as the regular Berlin Symphony patches since they have fewer articulations and fewer dynamic layers, so there's that. I'm also not clear if you are running an articulation per track or using keyswitches. I think it's the former but I wasn't certain.


... I'm running a mixture of both single and multi articulation patches per track but I run a lot more Chris Hein now which despite being way more power hungry than Inspire still doesn't hiccup my system.
I actually acquired the whole CH orchestra instead of Berlin as I had indeed read how power hungry Berlin is!


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## jbuhler (Apr 18, 2021)

river angler said:


> ... I'm running a mixture of both single and multi articulation patches per track but I run a lot more Chris Hein now which despite being way more power hungry than Inspire still doesn't hiccup my system.
> I actually acquired the whole CH orchestra instead of Berlin as I had indeed read how power hungry Berlin is!


I had no problem running SSO along with SCS, HZS, percussion, harp, and a bunch of instruments from Arks 1&2 with 64GB. I could run all of SSO with one mic comfortably at 32GB. It was specifically Berlin Strings that caused issues with RAM.


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## river angler (Apr 18, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I had no problem running SSO along with SCS, HZS, percussion, harp, and a bunch of instruments from Arks 1&2 with 64GB. I could run all of SSO with one mic comfortably at 32GB. It was specifically Berlin Strings that caused issues with RAM.


...yes, since reading so many complaints about Berlin's power hunger I've always thought there must be some vital scripting that OT have never addressed properly with it. It's hungry nature has become somewhat notorious! It's a pity as their samples have always had that effortless classy musical sonic to them.


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## el-bo (Apr 19, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> It looks like the most powerful processor available for the 2018 Mac Minis is the 6-core Intel Core i5.
> 
> Would that work? Is it more important to have more cores, or a more modern 4-core i7?


There is an i7 version, but the i5 is still really powerful for your current needs. The only issue with going with Intel is that there will be a point that support is dropped. I think there's still a few years (5, maybe) grace they have to give, given they are still selling Intel machines. And while that might be a limiting factor, I'd imagine that five years down the line you'll be needing more than the 16gb that the current M1 offerings have.

In your position, I'd completely avoid the laptop you are considering. You're wasting a lot of money on the screen, and it won't be as powerful as a much cheaper Intel Mini. It'll also likely run a lot hotter. I'd also avoid going with Apple refurbs, as they aren't the cheapest options.

Here are some UK prices, but I'm sure you'll find comparable:









Refurbished Mac Mini Core i5 3.0GHz (Space Grey, Late 2018) Grade B


Intel Core i5 3.0GHz (8500B) six-core Processor (Turbo Boost 2.0 to 4.1GHz) Intel UHD Graphics 630 with up to 1.5GB Shared Memory PC4-21300 (2666 MHz) DDR4 SO-DIMM Memory macOS 12 Monterey 8.0GT/s NVMe PCIe x4 SSD Storage HDMI 2.0, 3.5mm headphone jack, Four Thunderbolt 3 and two USB 3.0 Wi-Fi...




www.hoxtonmacs.co.uk





Starting out, you could probably get a lot of great mileage from the included LPX orchestra, the free Spitfire 'Discovery' and Kontakt factory library (Making the assumption you own Kontakt). In this way, you get a really cheap, and plenty powerful, computer (For external ssd, I'd by a Samsung or Crucial 2.5 unit and a usb 3 case).





All the saved money will be ready for extra libraries or for a much more powerful computer when you've outgrown this one


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## Alex Fraser (Apr 19, 2021)

Don't forget that Logic has dynamic plugin loading which is a game changer if you're working with lower ram counts and you're not set on having everything loaded all the time. This puts 16gb in "do-able territory" if you're not lording over multi-mic extravaganzas.

...which is what I'd do if I was just starting out with the specific aim of _just writing something._ Cheap Mac (M1?), Logic, BBSO Core (Nucleus?) and any old battered keystation. External SSD of your choice and just get on with it. No need to overcomplicate the tech out of the gate. The VSL server farm can wait until later. 😂


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## mybadmemory (Apr 19, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Don't forget that Logic has dynamic plugin loading which is a game changer if you're working with lower ram counts and you're not set on having everything loaded all the time. This puts 16gb in "do-able territory" if you're not lording over multi-mic extravaganzas.
> 
> ...which is what I'd do if I was just starting out with the specific aim of _just writing something._ Cheap Mac (M1?), Logic, BBSO Core (Nucleus?) and any old battered keystation. External SSD of your choice and just get on with it. No need to overcomplicate the tech out of the gate. The VSL server farm can wait until later. 😂


Totally agree to this. A mac, logic, BBCSO, a samsung ssd, a keystation and a pair of headphones is a very powerful way to start out.


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## Loïc D (Apr 19, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> If I keep a glass of ouzo next to me, it should be alright...


Can’t argue against this. Ultimate problem solver.


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## Seabass001 (Apr 19, 2021)

I'm hoping to pull the trigger on something this week or next, and am considering the following:

1. New M1 Mac Mini with 16gb RAM and 1TB SSD (still nervous about the 16gb, but...it's shiny and new, and maybe worth taking a chance.)
2. 2018 Mac Mini with i7 and 1TB SSD, can upgrade RAM if needed
3. Something like this: https://www.backmarket.com/tested-a...2018-core-i7-32gb-ssd-1000-gb/108863.html#l=3

I like the idea of not having to take a keyboard, mouse and cables with me that the Mini would require. They're all within my budget.

- Which do you think would be the best overall rig for scoring big, symphonic film scores? 
- Pros/cons to each, like ports, etc?

Thanks!


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## toddkreuz (Apr 19, 2021)

Good imagination, and some theory maybe. A good composer would never let gear 
get in the way.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 19, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> Which do you think would be the best overall rig for scoring big, symphonic film scores?


Big, symphonic film scores? Without a slave, I would personally go with that MacBook or the i7 mini. Ram is your biggest friend for big orchestral templates. Plus, with an Intel machine, you’ll know your software and peripherals are compatible.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 19, 2021)

toddkreuz said:


> Good imagination, and some theory maybe. A good composer would never let gear
> get in the way.


Which doesn’t help if you can’t deliver the scores.


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## JohnG (Apr 19, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> - Which do you think would be the best overall rig for scoring big, symphonic film scores?


I still think 32GB is barely enough. I'm half tempted to suggest the M1 and a second computer, even though I know you don't want to do that! @Jeremy Spencer is right when he says "RAM is your biggest friend."

On the other hand, you could always start with the refurbished 32GB machine and see how it goes. Maybe you could do what you want with that for a while? At least you are starting with a price point that is low enough so that, hopefully, you could recover a lot of your purchase price on eBay if later you change course.


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## river angler (Apr 20, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> I'm hoping to pull the trigger on something this week or next, and am considering the following:
> 
> 1. New M1 Mac Mini with 16gb RAM and 1TB SSD (still nervous about the 16gb, but...it's shiny and new, and maybe worth taking a chance.)
> 2. 2018 Mac Mini with i7 and 1TB SSD, can upgrade RAM if needed
> ...


Acquiring the gear is the easy bit! Getting good results from is it is 95% down to the quality of your base compositional content as it is good content that drives one to squeeze the best out of the tools one has to capture it.

You've already seen what I use which is both ergonomic and portable and doesn't compromise in sonic quality. I think you'd be surprised just how much power you can get from an i7 Ivy Bridge chip/16gb RAM. If I am running more than 80 tracks on a large symphonic or hybrid film track I either render those tracks that are choking the CPChip, use some purging or use Logic's freeze function. And yes! I am talking about only when I'm beyond 80 separate instances of Chris Hein/OT Berlin Orchestra Inspire with plenty of effects plugins going. OT's Inspire series is way less resourceful than the main Berlin instruments but a Chris Hein multi can often be over a gig. Again it's a question of omitting the articulations you are not using and purging those multis that utilise the contained articulations ready to be used at some point in the piece.

Regarding RAM The key is to either get used to knowing how to set up your articulations in such a way that you are not running anything superfluously when adding track instruments or set up carefully constructed templates that you have tried and tested. If you are going to use multi articulation patches remember to either hit that purge button so that the currently unused ones are not just sitting there hogging RAM. Purge, freeze and stem rendering are your best friends if you're concerned about RAM.

There are plenty of orchestral type Logic templates out there however I tend to work more from a blank page as it puts me in a more inspired spontaneous frame of mind especially when seeing the client's first few scenes for the first time. Even with straight orchestral works when writing from scratch I prefer to add instruments tracks as i go along. For those doing film trailer work I can understand there are pretty standard instruments one would always want to have at the ready. Anyway, again, everyone has their own method. Spitfire Audio have some free templates here:






Templates — THE PAGE







www.spitfireaudiothepage.com





I have no experience with the Mac mini so I can't comment on it being any more efficient despite it's higher RAM options. There are some great composers who've contributed to this thread who use different systems to mine but I don't think you'll go wrong with either system as far as kit is concerned- just plumb for the one that suits the closest way you want to work i.e. be portable or more studio based or both. I migrated from a Powermac G5 PCI system nearly a decade ago to my current mid 2012 MacBookPro. Whats great about that mid 2012 (the non retina model) is that it has 2 USB3 inputs plus a thunderbolt 1 (I attach a second screen to when I'm in the studio) + the FireWire 800 port (my audio interface). It just works! hence the laptop root is my preference for both studio and portability until I see technology really offer me something much more powerful and flexible.

P.S. I'm running on High Sierra and realise I can't upgrade my OS beyond Catalina. The OS issue can be a bugger at some point but most of the developers make their software instruments backward compatible. Regarding Logic itself yes! I currently would have to update to Catalina to benefit from the latest release and no doubt the next major update could possibly force me to re-invest if that update no longer works on Catalina. However I'd only be happy to make the system change if I really felt that Logic update and the new hardware I would have to buy to accommodate it was going to seriously improve the presentation of my compositions sonically...

Again as a few wise birds have already posted here: ultimately writing quality music is not about the gear!


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## toddkreuz (Apr 22, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Which doesn’t help if you can’t deliver the scores.


What's the point if the scores suck?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 22, 2021)

toddkreuz said:


> What's the point if the scores suck?


Whether it sucks or not....you still need good gear to deliver the goods.


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## toddkreuz (Apr 22, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Whether it sucks or not....you still need good gear to deliver the goods.


Define "good gear".


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## babylonwaves (Apr 22, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> - Which do you think would be the best overall rig for scoring big, symphonic film scores?


non. sorry, not very diplomatic, I know. why don't you try to make a good score, it doesn't need to be that symphonic if you can't do that within your budget? JP did Italien job with small strings section for similar reasons and people still love this score.


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## Seabass001 (May 3, 2021)

babylonwaves said:


> non. sorry, not very diplomatic, I know. why don't you try to make a good score, it doesn't need to be that symphonic if you can't do that within your budget? JP did Italien job with small strings section for similar reasons and people still love this score.


I'm learning how to produce media-quality recordings, and have a symphony written for a real orchestra. Want to use that symphony to learn how to manipulate Logic Pro and play around with sample libraries. If I can wrap my head around a big project like that, I'm hoping smaller pieces will seem simple. Like learning the violin as your first instrument; after that learning other instruments seems easy. If I can somehow wrangle my way into a decent job of digitally realizing a 30-min, full orchestra piece...hopefully a short piano piece or small string orchestra will seem easy. I need to push myself.


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## Seabass001 (May 3, 2021)

Hello Everyone,
And thank you all for your help and input.

UPDATE:
Got a new M1 Mac Mini with 16gb RAM and 1tb SSD. Just set it up tonight and figuring out my setup flaws.

I don't know enough to test it at its limits yet, but excited to start learning Logic.

I went with wired keyboard and mouse. Got a Satechi wired keyboard and a Logitech wired trackball, but going to return the trackball for a trackpad since the trackball doesn't feel good at all. Tennis elbow is flaring up after 30 mins of use...getting old sucks sometimes. Is magical at others...

QUESTION:

Ports. Lack of ports. Need more, and imagine any composer who doesn't want Bluetooth keyboard/mouse will too.

Right now I have: one external monitor connected to the HDMI port; trackball and midi controller using both/all of the USB-A ports; and typing keyboard in one of the two ThunderBolt 3 ports.

I will need to connect a second display into the last TB3 port, but then won't have a place to connect a future external SSD HD. 

Should I get a USB-A hub to add a port for the HD, or a TB3 hub and get an external HD with TB3 connection? I'm guessing that an external SSD HD will be faster with a TB3 connection, but is that true? If so, is the difference noticeable?

Either way, which hubs are affordable and work well? For someone on a small budget and doesn't want to spend $150 on a hub, what's the best solution?

Thanks!


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 4, 2021)

Seabass001 said:


> Should I get a USB-A hub to add a port for the HD, or a TB3 hub and get an external HD with TB3 connection? I'm guessing that an external SSD HD will be faster with a TB3 connection, but is that true? If so, is the difference noticeable?


I have my external SSD's connected to USB-A, they are fast enough. Does that typing keyboard need to use a T3 port? Seems like a real waste of a port! I'd find an adaptor for the keyboard, and that would free up another port for your second display (which will also need an adaptor). Or if your budget allows...grab something like a CalDigit SOHO dock.


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## Seabass001 (May 4, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I have my external SSD's connected to USB-A, they are fast enough. Does that typing keyboard need to use a T3 port? Seems like a real waste of a port! I'd find an adaptor for the keyboard, and that would free up another port for your second display (which will also need an adaptor). Or if your budget allows...grab something like a CalDigit SOHO dock.



It really is a waste of a good port!

Still want to research more, but will probably go for a simple hub like this:


and get a USB-A adapter for the keyboard. And a cable for the second monitor to plug into a TB port. And adapters - seems like this should be more straightforward. Will probably make sense after I purchase stuff...

But curious about something like this:


Did see one video where they said the SSD they put inside kept disconnecting and reconnecting whenever the Mini slept. Other videos are mostly about unboxing and first impressions without more practical experience.

Might be too overly-thought and best to keep it simple.

Thanks for the help!


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