# Inner Hero (again)



## José Herring (Aug 26, 2006)

revised.

http://www.jherringmusic.com/user/InnerHero2.mp3


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## PaulR (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Inner Hero*

Very sparce opening and the sound needs work. Possibilities though.

I would do it in a different key personally (higher register maybe) - look forward to hearing it when it's finished


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## José Herring (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Inner Hero*

delete


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## Dr.Quest (Aug 27, 2006)

What happened to the link? Why take it down because of Paul?

J


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## José Herring (Aug 27, 2006)

delete


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## PaulR (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Inner Hero*

I hope you haven't done that - that would be mighty disappointing. Get it back up there so everyone can share ideas.


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## Sean Beeson (Aug 27, 2006)

J will be back with the piece. I have a feeling


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## choc0thrax (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Inner Hero*

Teehee I heard it before he could remove it.


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## José Herring (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Inner Hero*

delete


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## kid-surf (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Inner Hero*

Let me know if you want my opinion. 

But i'll say that the choir is the wrong note on the second "Ahh", IMO, that's one problem...

There's many things that make this cue feel incomplete and lumbering to me -- Matter of fact.

Btw--when I first clicked I thought of the Superman theme, since the first five notes are the same. (I think?). Add a note between the 5th and 6th note and it's the same notes to my ears (I think? -- don't have that score)

I believe that sometimes when cues aren't working it means that they aren't very good... That's my heads up to consider trashing something and starting a new. Could be the cue is telling you to do something else.


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## José Herring (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: waste of space*

I can see that I'm just wasting my time here these days.


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## kid-surf (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: waste of space*

Where'd Choc0 go? I miss him.... :oops:


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## Alex W (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: waste of space*



josejherring @ Mon Aug 28 said:


> I can see that I'm just wasting my time here these days.



dude wtf man?!!

what was the problem?


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## kid-surf (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: waste of space*

*"I believe that sometimes when cues aren't working it means that they aren't very good... That's my heads up to consider trashing something and starting a new. Could be the cue is telling you to do something else."*

I'll add that --- I took my own advice today actually. Had that feeling in my gut that said "this cue is sucking, trash it". So i did and came up with something that works a lot better. Something I really dig. And now I feel confident turning this cue in, cause now it's not a piece of crap, It's a cue that works and feels right to my gut. (the old cue is filed under "peace" -- meaning, I'll not try to fix it. It's been deleted cause it was shitty.

Gotta follow that gut so you don't get fired...

Obvious stuff to many, but I don't mind stating the obvious.


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## PaulR (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: waste of space*



josejherring @ Mon Aug 28 said:


> I can see that I'm just wasting my time here these days.



WTF is the matter now? Man, I've written so much crap - you could sink a battleship with it. I've spent 2 fucking months writing something for something and just trashed the whole fucking thing because it had gotten to the point of embarrassing.

Gotten!! JESSSUSS - I said GOTTEN!


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: waste of space*

Ey Jose, what's going on, man? Haven't heard your cue yet! Put it up.

Cheers,


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## José Herring (Aug 28, 2006)

*Inner Hero (agian)*

I just didn't want to turn this thread into another Jose v.s Kid thread. I'm taking kind of a beating these days confidence wise cause I'm searching for a new sound that I think I'll need in order to move up to the next level for me.

*I'm sorry for any animosity created Kid.*

I'll put it up one more time, but let's be fair here. I've already said that this piece is just a section of a larger piece. And i've been having trouble with this section. 

(see link below)


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## choc0thrax (Aug 28, 2006)

Maybe you have problems with Kid cause he's more likely to give an honest opinion than others. I don't know if you want my opinion but here it is anyways.  I agree with Kid about going with your gut, if I made this piece my gut would tell me to scrap it. Saying it's part of a larger piece doesn't make things better.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Aug 28, 2006)

Hey Jose,

you know we all go through periods of doubt and soul searching.
It's a painful part of the evolution process and is necessary to move to the next level. People constently happy with themselves have very little chance to get significantly better.

Finally listened to the cue and to me it doesn't have as many problems as some posters might point out.
I have no problem with the choice of notes for the choir.

The one thing that I feel brings the piece down is the rhythmic flow. The timpani groove is a little too loose and doesn't provide a solid foundation for the piece.
Once that is taken care of, I bet you the whole thing will pick up.

Keep your chin up :wink:


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## Dr.Quest (Aug 28, 2006)

I think it has potential. It seems to be asking for more of a build but that may all be in how it fits with the other pieces.
Keep working on it. The strings at the beginning need something but I'm not sure what at this point.

I wouldn't pay any attention to the "I heart TJ" boy.
His views are pretty narrow usually.
J


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## José Herring (Aug 28, 2006)

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## kid-surf (Aug 28, 2006)

Jose--

Hmmm... and then I read your "limited view" comment.  

Perhaps you can back that thang up a sec and tell yourself what it is *you* don't like about this "section".  You stated from the get go that something was wrong, if you already knew what it was why not fix it before you posted it. I was under the impression that you were looking for perspectives other than your own to try and figure out what you could fix. So 
I offered mine..... if you'd rather I don't comment on your music let me know. Otherwise I'm going to be straight up. If you had posted the piece as a finished piece I wouldn't have commented.

Hey man, wasn't trying to slam you. If you think I'm wrong that's your right. Like i said, if you can fix what 'you' perceive the problem to be then you're good to go. Right?

I stand by everything I said. And no, I wasn't "telling" you to scrap it, I was suggesting that as a possibility. (since you've been going round and round on the same piece for what you described as a very long time -- that's a huge red flag in my book) I didn't make any blanket statements about this piece of yours. 

Keep in mind, plenty of music that was far better written than anything you or I could do (currently) has been scrapped by the greats. Pieces we'd all be thrilled to have written. 

The note was only one aspect of why I didn't feel the choir worked. For me it sort of just 'jumps in' and doesn't feel organic. But i do have a bias against choir, I usually hate it in peer cues. Listen to the way JNH and John Powell recently used it... that I dig, not just cause it's real, but the *way* it's used. The staccato stab-ish feeling that's created the way many peers seem to use it doesn't excite me much. Sounds forced and not organic to my ears when used that way (so yes, big bias for me unless the choir is seamless).

My lumbering comment had to do with what Peter spoke of.




all pretty matter of fact....


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## PaulR (Aug 28, 2006)

Mike Greene @ Mon Aug 28 said:


> I think this piece is fundamentally pretty cool, but it gets off on the wrong foot because the opening string melody is so evenly performed. - Mike Greene



When I said sparse - what I really meant to say was because 'the opening string melody SAMPLE' is so exposed. There's nothing wrong with the melody or any writing (maybe slightly strident); it's unfortunate that writing these days let's samples get in the way sometimes. I'm shit at using samples and I admit it all the time.

There are maybe 3 guys on this forum that are some of the best sample mock-up artists in the world - probably. One of the reasons their sound is so good to me is because they don't allow crappy sounding samples to get over-exposed in a piece. They hide it either by tremedously clever 'sample orchestration' or they put it way back in a mix.
Sampled choirs are used way too much in writing these days and are tremendously difficult - at least to me - to be used effectively. Sometimes it works - mostly it's just orchestrated laziness or useful for hiding things. Hans Zimmer is a pastmaster at using choirs - moreso Danny Elfman at using them in the past effectively. Naturally, we're talking filmscorers here. The mistake at least to me from a purely musical pov these days is, because of samples, writers use them as part of the orchestration - this is NOT really the function of a choir.

I wouldn't worry about the writing - just the sound and maybe some further orchestration tactics.


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## José Herring (Aug 28, 2006)

Okay. I feel a lot better about this piece. It's getting closer to what I envision. I haven't been reading everything but based on what I have read I've made a few revisions.

Actually it was good to get the piece out in the open for the first time because It got me thinkin' for the first time about how this piece will play for others. 

So here goes. "Inner Hero" revised. 

http://www.jherringmusic.com/user/InnerHero2.mp3


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## José Herring (Aug 28, 2006)

kid-surf @ Mon Aug 28 said:


> Jose--
> 
> Hmmm... and then I read your "limited view" comment.



I'm diggin' ya man. I hear what you're saying. Sometimes the way you say it rubs me the wrong way so I kind of take it personally. But, I'm at peace today and I see where you're coming from much better.

It's cool with me actually. And your comments helped me at least get it closer to where I want it to be.

Take care.

Friends again dude.


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## Mike Greene (Aug 28, 2006)

I don't think you're gonna like this but . . . I like the first version better.

I like the opening synth better than the cello riff. I prefer the old first half string sound to the new one where I think you mixed in Feench Horns (though my previous comments still stand.) I like the choir louder like before and I'm not crazy about that drum part when the full orchestra kicks in. It sounds like it's trying to hard to drive the piece.

Sorry to not be more positive, but I didn't think you were that far off before. If you don't mind me posting it, here's the link to the first version:
http://www.jherringmusic.com/user/InnerHero.mp3

- Mike Greene


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## José Herring (Aug 28, 2006)

It's cool Mike. I don't mind. Though I feel far from done with this piece it's far closer to what I'm hearing than before. 

I think the first version is far more film like. I don't really see this piece as a film piece.

I write so few pieces for myself that I'm starting to realize that I'm not sure that this piece is intended for mass public stuff. Maybe it's one of the rare private pieces that's just to amuse myself.

I did a concert once and preformed a piece that I'd slaved away at trying to get right for over a year. In the same concert I played a piece that I banged out overnight cause I needed another place filler. The piece I banged out overnight got good audience response. The piece that I slaved over barely got applause. Not even the musicians got it until I explained it to them. 

So I guess as composers we're always torn between who we are and what people expect. It's always been a dilema with me.

I'm going to make some more modifications tonight and this piece may just be the piece that I'll always be trying to write but may never be able to. I'm cool with it.

Jose


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