# 88 Semi-Weighted Keys + Aftertouch + Mod/Pitch wheels = ??? Controller



## Maestro77 (Oct 15, 2013)

I can't for the life of me find this combination in a controller. Does anyone know of one? Preferably one that isn't a desk monster? I've had the M-Audio Keystation 88es for years and I think it's time for an upgrade. No need for additional knobs or sliders.


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## davinwv (Oct 15, 2013)

I hate to recommend CME, but the CME ZKey 88 seems to tick all your boxes:

http://www.cme-pro.com/proline/product- ... _id=38.htm

Even though the specs say the action is weighted, it is very light. I tried one once, and it was somewhat difficult to achieve lower velocity levels.


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## Maestro77 (Oct 15, 2013)

Yeah, I've also heard bad things about CME keyboards. Hard to believe there isn't anything better out there that meets these requirements?


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## reddognoyz (Oct 15, 2013)

Sound on Sound gave it a very bad review. I look for that perfect controller every day. Haven't found it yet. Still using a crappy M-Audio 88es.


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## FriFlo (Oct 15, 2013)

Doepfer lmk 2 does that. But I haven't come across any weighted controller, where I didn't find the aftertouch way to heavy, to give me any useful control for vibrato or other parameters. Until I got my kurzweil midiboard two years ago. It has become one of my luckiest buying decisions in my studio. Can't recommend it often enough, but it's pretty rare and hence hard to find. Also, you might not like the form factor. it's a tank ...


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## synthetic (Oct 15, 2013)

Check your PM, I might have something for you.


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## Maestro77 (Oct 15, 2013)

FriFlo, from what I'm finding online it looks like the Doepfer has fully-weighted keys, right? I'm definitely looking for semi-weighted. I'm a synth guy, not a piano guy.


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## Dan Mott (Oct 15, 2013)

Can I ask why you are upgrading for? What are you missing with the M-Audio one.


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## Maestro77 (Oct 15, 2013)

The 88es doesn't have aftertouch. Other than that it's not terrible aside from being a bit difficult and inconsistent triggering low velocities.


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## Dan Mott (Oct 15, 2013)

Maestro77 @ Wed Oct 16 said:


> The 88es doesn't have aftertouch. Other than that it's not terrible aside from being a bit difficult and inconsistent triggering low velocities.



I have that keyboard and I think it's horrible haha.

I don't blame you for wanting to upgrade.


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## dfhagai (Oct 15, 2013)

I've beem searching for that for years now...
The only one I can think of, is the new Roland A88, but it's costly and doesn't have 
aftertouch.

I recommend combining several products into a dedicated monster controlling station.
I wrote an article for Leap Motion Developers blog about this very issue here (pictures of my setup inside):
http://labs.leapmotion.com/post/634...trolled-orchestra-with-gecomidi#disqus_thread


Good luck


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## resonate (Oct 20, 2013)

it's worth to look into Kurzweil music systems's PC3K series.


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## edhamilton (Oct 20, 2013)

Grail quest.
I'd pay stupid money for an 88 note controller that feels like a korg z1 .......


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## synergy543 (Oct 20, 2013)

I have a Yamaha S90ES that I'm quite happy with. It has pitch +mod wheels and two programmable sliders. I believe it also has aftertouch but I've never used it as I prefer wheels and foot pedals. The keyboard is weighted and I like it very much. It would seem to meet your requirements other than its not semi but full-weighted. Personally, I find this a huge plus even though I've always used semi-weighted keyboards myself. Its a biit on the pricey side (got mine refurbished) though I'd easily pay just for the keyboard action as its quite good. I wish it had more MIDI sliders but instead, I use an outboard MIDI slider box.


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## g.c. (Oct 21, 2013)

Try o find an old CME UF8 . As I remember these were built by Yamaha as opposed to the newer CME's, which no distributor seems to want to handle. The old UF8 has everything you're asking for.
Mine is old-old, just wore out after years. So I had the keys rebuilt (took about 4 hours labor)and instead of messing with the faders now run a Novation 49 with it.
On UTUBE there is an old review from Florida Music. The fellow who wrote the review is who said the stuff to me in a phone conversation that got me to stop trying for something new and inferior that woulDn't cost me in the $1,000's. I had no need of the extra $2-3,000 of value with a Korg-Roland, etc. I wanted an 88 key midi controller for sequencing Orchestral samples I already owned.
I bought the M Aud ES 88. I put it back in the box and got the CME fixed, comparitively I was that let down by it.
But you need to find the pre 2004 version.
Also, you might look at "Touch Keys" over your old keyboard. The demos with Samplemoddeling, etc. are really stunning in the possibilities for "natural" performance.
g.c.


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## Barrie B (Oct 22, 2013)

Also in the same boat but with the addition of needing any new keyboard to fit the studio furniture!

Anyone got or tried this? 

http://www.studiologic-music.com/acuna88.html

I'm thinking it might fit my particular bill...

B


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## syashdown (Oct 22, 2013)

I was just about to post on this recommending the Acuna 88, got it a few months ago and very pleased with it. Bar a problem where it disconnects from logic every now and then (need to turn the keyboard off and on again when it happens), its a great all round controller. It is fully weighted but has a relatively light touch while having enough control to get down to low velocities. Nice smooth action (I previously had a M-Audio Keysation 88 - STICKY!!!!). I haven't messed about with programming the controls much, so can't comment on that but otherwise very satisfied, particularly considering the price point.


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## Richard Wilkinson (Oct 22, 2013)

AKAI MPK88.

Although my personal one doesn't fit your requirements as the aftertouch is broken.


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## chimuelo (Oct 22, 2013)

Synthetic...What 88 are you not sharing with me...? :mrgreen: 
You have the ear and the gear as usual, so stop holding out.
Doesn't mean I'll switch from my 4 zone PX-3S, but as usual with controllers since the 1990s, it's sad when the M Audio KS88 Pro is the best all around controller.
The Oxygen 88 is a watered down profit seeking P.O.S. so we are going backwards, most likely due to throngs of whining forumites wanting KVR style prices.

I'm not surprised these bums have given developers/manufacturers a false sense of the market.
The more crying these Putos do, the crappier stuff we see, and being a stage hound, I have watched 88 noters regress into 2 octave junkwagons, and shittier keybeds for years.

And folks wonder why someone even invented the worthless 88es cardboard box crap. It was for the girly men at KVR that bleed all over everyone if something costs more than 400 USD.


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## germancomponist (Oct 22, 2013)

chimuelo @ Tue Oct 22 said:


> ...
> I'm not surprised these bums have given developers/manufacturers a false sense of the market.
> The more crying these Putos do, the crappier stuff we see, and being a stage hound, I have watched 88 noters regress into 2 octave junkwagons, and shittier keybeds for years.
> 
> And folks wonder why someone even invented the worthless 88es cardboard box crap. It was for the girly men at KVR that bleed all over everyone if something costs more than 400 USD.



+ 100!


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## Barrie B (Oct 22, 2013)

syashdown @ Tue Oct 22 said:


> I was just about to post on this recommending the Acuna 88, got it a few months ago and very pleased with it. Bar a problem where it disconnects from logic every now and then (need to turn the keyboard off and on again when it happens), its a great all round controller. It is fully weighted but has a relatively light touch while having enough control to get down to low velocities. Nice smooth action (I previously had a M-Audio Keysation 88 - STICKY!!!!). I haven't messed about with programming the controls much, so can't comment on that but otherwise very satisfied, particularly considering the price point.



Thanks syashdown - what I needed to hear!

best

Barrie


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## Maestro77 (Oct 22, 2013)

Finding a SEMI-weighted 88-key controller is the most difficult part of this search. Totally don't want fully-weighted keys. Thanks for the recommendations, guys. It appears this board doesn't exist! Hard to believe.


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## korgscrew (Oct 22, 2013)

http://uk.novationmusic.com/midi-controllers/sl-mkii

??

**EDIT** Damn, only 61 keys!!


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## Maestro77 (Oct 22, 2013)

Yeah, very close! It seems companies don't believe anyone wants an 88-key that feels like a synth. Plenty of good ones available with 61 or fewer but so many libraries use the full spread for playable zones and keyswitches, gotta have all 88.


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## chimuelo (Oct 22, 2013)

Maestro77 @ Tue Oct 22 said:


> Finding a SEMI-weighted 88-key controller is the most difficult part of this search. Totally don't want fully-weighted keys. Thanks for the recommendations, guys. It appears this board doesn't exist! Hard to believe.



Well I have what I consider the very best 88 note controller ever built and will never sell it. I only break it out for tours which pay less than what I make to stay home these days, but you can search around and maybe get lucky.
They don't make controllers like this anymore.
Programmamable velocity cureves per preset, aftertouch routings and curves per preset, 1024 presets, 8 x 8 MIDI, 8 x Continuos controller pedals..

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov99/a ... erheim.htm


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## Maestro77 (Oct 22, 2013)

Interesting, chimuelo. Just did some research and everything I see says this is also has fully-weighted keys. Is that true?


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## AC986 (Oct 22, 2013)

They don't make anything like they did anymore.

I had a JV90 and I gave to a friend in it's box with expansion cards for a present. Good keyboard but I've never been a big fan of Roland.
The fastest keyboard I ever had was a K2000. That was a fast keyboard.

I can't get on with semi weighted keyboards because I come from an old school where you had to play pianos in the 50's and 60's that had actions like a Tiger tank. Solid but fucking slow.

Kurzweils are good with good internals for just playing around and composing on without having to switch on computers. For just wishing for an 88 note I would look on sites such as Ebay but watch out for scammers there when it comes to electronic musical instruments.


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## chimuelo (Oct 22, 2013)

So they say, but I play a real Piano, and another "heavy action" controller and the difference is night and day. The MC3000 is semi action, no different than th 88 note controllers like the Motiffs and other regurgitated boards we are plagued by.

I bought the MC3000 for racks of analog synths and samplers and although I am a Pianist, I am also a synth nut who likes multiple zones since I play with both hands and use feet for keyswitched articulations, drawbar swells, leslie switches, filter sweeps, you name it, I modulate it.


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## AC986 (Oct 22, 2013)

You remember when Clint Eastwood says in Unforgiven ... I've shot just about everything that's crawled or moved?

I'm like that with synthesizers. But there's something about playing a synthesizer from its own keyboard and internals. Like a B3 piece of huge furniture always sounds better than any emulation, so a synthesizer always plays best from its own keyboard.

A Pianist with a capital P? Fuck me. o=< o=< 

Don't meet many of them. o-[][]-o


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## chimuelo (Oct 22, 2013)

adriancook @ Tue Oct 22 said:


> But there's something about playing a synthesizer from its own keyboard and internals. Like a B3 piece of huge furniture always sounds better than any emulation, so a synthesizer always plays best from its own keyboard.
> 
> A Pianist with a capital P? Fuck me. o=< o=<
> 
> Don't meet many of them. o-[][]-o



True, which is why I purchased Solaris a couples years back. Some say it's not Analog, true, it's DSP but does Subtractive Synthesis very well since it's a semi modular design, but the digital flavors and all processing is internally done @ 96k
and definately is the Apex in my long line of hardware purchases.
And it's also true, I am a Pianist, I was trained at a Conservatory, had a great full ride to an acclaimed Jazz College so I could perform for drunken scoundrels yelling Freebird at me.
But I wouldn't trade my gig for all the Tea in China..... o-[][]-o


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## germancomponist (Oct 22, 2013)

adriancook @ Tue Oct 22 said:


> But there's something about playing a synthesizer from its own keyboard and internals. Like a B3 piece of huge furniture always sounds better than any emulation, so a synthesizer always plays best from its own keyboard.



Another +1 for this.

In the 80's I had worked as a sound programmer. Some synths were also available as rack modules, as you know. One day I programmed some sounds for a Roland synth. In my studio I only had the rack-module and used the keyboard from another synth. All sounded good. But, the next day when a client went in and loaded my sounds into his (keyboard) synth, it sounded different. Ha ha, the velocity reacted different. o/~


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## quantum7 (Oct 28, 2013)

resonate @ Sun Oct 20 said:


> it's worth to look into Kurzweil music systems's PC3K series.



I use a PC3LE8 and find it the best controller I've used so far. I would definitely stay away from CME.


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## mickeyl (Jul 9, 2016)

Reviving this thread from 2013... No new quality-offering with 88 semiweighted keys or did I miss something?


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## synthpunk (Jul 9, 2016)

Have several friends using the Arturia Keylab 88 Plus and they like it allot. Now down to $799 u.s. street.

Here is mine
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/what-keyboard-do-you-own.54104/#post-3967049


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## AlexRuger (Jul 9, 2016)

The Arturia is alright but I find the key action to be extremely mushy. I know quite a few people who dig it, though.


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## 5Lives (Jul 10, 2016)

Anybody have the Kontrol S88 by Native Instruments?


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