# Best way for an 11-year-old to get into music production?



## rroc (Dec 6, 2021)

I've been thinking about the best way to introduce my 11-year-old son to music production. 
Is there anything you could point to that's especially well-suited? Do I give him the Zoom R8 + a mic and wish him good luck with his guitar? Or dig up the old MacBook + Maschine MK1 and allow for more advanced exploration? Or a Pocket Operator? What's the best way to reel him into this world?


----------



## José Herring (Dec 6, 2021)

I started with a Fisher Price xylophone and a copy of the drum used in The Little Drummer recording on my Dad's reel to reel. 

Just joking. Get him recording stuff on his guitar using your MacBook and a good DAW. By the time he's 15 he'll be the next Trent Reznor (w/o the drugs of course).

I think whatever he does getting him use to the fact that it's going to end up in a DAW is a good start.


----------



## Macrawn (Dec 6, 2021)

I admit I made my son take piano lessons for quite a few years. He never really liked it. Plays in the school band too, never practices doesn't care too much about it. Loaded a bunch of native instruments stuff on his computer. Didn't give a hoot. Complete fail. I just wanted him to do something creative instead of video games. 

Man if I had that stuff when I was a kid.......... Studio One and the best VI instruments. 

Then all of a sudden out of the blue he wants to start playing the one instrument I don't have- a bass. Predictable right? Started learning on youtube and trading songs with a friend. 

I just realized that if it isn't from within first it isn't happening. But I think he'll thank me for making him take piano and play in school band because he's learning bass so fast. 

But hopefully he sticks with his plan to be an engineer not a musician lol.


----------



## Saxer (Dec 6, 2021)

If he is really interested in making music and music production he probably wants to work on Dad's DAW. Don't give him the feeling he gets an outdated version of it. Kids want the new stuff. Maybe an iPad?


----------



## fourier (Dec 6, 2021)

Following. I have a 10yr old daughter taking piano lessons and curious about music production, but I've not found the proper "gateway drug" yet. For me, that was Fast Tracker 2.


----------



## AkashicBird (Dec 6, 2021)

I'm just starting to learn the basics of theory at 40 so this is not tried and true by any means, but I still made music regularly my whole life starting in my teens, and I think being able to work on something with friends is very motivating. Band, music for movie/video, etc... (could be made easier with Internet nowadays too)

What I'd do if I wanted to teach a kid would be buy some small midi controller/keyboard (I don't know much about the current models but I've got and Arturia minilab Mkii, that sort of thing), a daw (don't need to be expensive, see Reaper, there's also free daws but I never found the time to try those...GarageBand is cool but I feel like he'd be limited at some point and would have to change daw anyway so might as well start with a full fledged daw now), and a bunch of free instruments/effects (you can get any kind easily these days, to think you can have a whole orchestra for free with BBC discovery... Samples are even easier, synths are easily covered, and effects even more).
Then just let him have fun, and maybe hook him up to an educational YouTube series.

Edit : first time I'm thinking about this subject, but maybe all of this is overwhelming for a kid? Maybe just learning a fun instruments such as drums is more satisfying right away?
PS to myself : stop posting when you don't actually have answers 😅


----------



## doctoremmet (Dec 6, 2021)

My 16 yo daughter asked me if she could use my bass guitar. Out of the blue. I just bought her a cool little Hartke combo amp too. She is practicing Tame Impala bass licks and daddy is happy. I guess it just has to come from them, because pushing piano lessons, guitar lessons etc. never worked. All she wanted to do is play basketball (she still does and practices three times a week). And now all of a sudden there they are: musical aspirations. I love it!


----------



## RogiervG (Dec 6, 2021)

I don't have kids... but.. looking at my own musical journey...

I would explore the options together... sit down with him, and see what he likes and not. (your music or instruments, might not be his: my dad is playing drums/percussion e.g.)

I started with the recorder lessons (foundational music instrument lessons, like many have).. then went to piano, because i liked the instrument (by exploration via parents, going to music schools, see, hear, feel instruments and listening to music where specific instruments are leading)
Then after a few years of lessons on the piano, i became interrested in synths/keyboards via, you guessed it: exploration (music i heard, touching the real instruments via friends of my parents, and such).
My parents invested money in this, and bought me a keyboard (roland) to fiddle with, and i got keyboard lessons too.. It clicked well (better than piano)... and so, my dad purchased (in accordance with my music teacher) an atari computer with cubase... and well.. things really started to lift up. I could do my own compositions! (music teacher also had this setup, so he learned me the ropes and such)
Then came the synths (i was approx 15 by then), saved up some money myself, and my parents payed the rest... just to help me out in my exploration....

TLDR: no forced lessons, no forced instrument choices (except recorder  ).. my parents let me choose, but helped me exploring (physical: going to music schools, going to music messe like events to see instruments in actions, see the posibilities and such. Financially: as youngster you don't have much money if at all.. )

Nowadays, i am not so much in synths anymore as i used to. currently i am more into orchestral of sorts. (in my mid 40's), went trough all kinds of musical phases (genres).


----------



## rroc (Dec 6, 2021)

Macrawn said:


> Then all of a sudden out of the blue he wants to start playing the one instrument I don't have- a bass. Predictable right? Started learning on youtube and trading songs with a friend.
> 
> I just realized that if it isn't from within first it isn't happening. But I think he'll thank me for making him take piano and play in school band because he's learning bass so fast.


Haha, spot on. I always wanted to learn to play the drums, but my parents made me sit through 2 years of recorder lessons (taught by my grandma) before I was allowed to start. And then I had to work my way up from a single plastic exercise drum - taught by a guy who didn't even really play the drums - to a run-down used drumkit. And then I found a guitar in the basement...

Totally true that ultimately it has to come from within. But how do I best nudge that along...


----------



## from_theashes (Dec 7, 2021)

Forcing and pushing never leads to motivation. It has to come from within ourselfs. My father played guitar... but he never pushed me towards it. When I was 10 years old, I wanted to play Metallica songs on guitar. That was my goal. So I took lessons and never stopped making music ever since. That whole „production“-thing evolved over time.
So don’t force anything. If your son is interested in something, show him the way. If not…let him do „his thing“.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 7, 2021)

OP You can’t unless he‘s really into music.

Does he listen to music ? Or is gaming his thing ?

I have a studio, drum kit amps guitars bass piano all setup. My nephew when visiting just sits playing his portable game machine. I‘ve welcomed in him to have a bash of the kit.. nothing ….. depressing really the youth of today Is gaming zombies and addicted to social media etc…

My 20 year old daughter can play the drums and bits of guitar… but other stuff always wins out…😔


----------



## KEM (Dec 7, 2021)

I don’t have kids as I’m still a kid myself lol, so I guess my experience will be from your sons perspective as opposed to a parents

Your son is already playing guitar, so ask him what his favorite artists are and then do a little bit of research about what they use to make music and see if you can get any of it. When I was a kid I asked for a guitar because I wanted to learn how to play Slipknot songs and that’s where my desire to play and create music started, and what lead me down the path of music production was Yeezus by Kanye West, I was so awestruck by the sounds on that record that I had to figure out what they were and how they were made and how I could make music like that, so I got FL Studio for free from my friend and he torrented Nexus 2 onto my computer along with it and that’s how everything really started

Don’t try to get your son into music production specifically cause it might be extremely overwhelming at first, I know it certainly was for me, instead get him Logic or something and just encourage him to record guitar riffs from his favorite artists, and then show him how you can put drums over them, and then maybe he’ll start creating his own ideas and he’ll already have an idea of what to do with them, if he’s truly interested he’ll start to pick it up on his own in no time


----------



## Delboy (Dec 7, 2021)

Try also to get him into Music Technology at School later if possible - some still offer this at AS stage right up to A level. Rheingold publishing is a good set of books for this. My son went this way and now studying composition for his Masters at Uni as I write this.
.. at least get him the books Music Technology from scratch or search on Amazon.


----------



## MA-Simon (Dec 7, 2021)

I had probably 10 years of piano lessons. Hated every minute of it.
Just awfull piano pieces + I was a very, very lazy kid.

Eventually as I got more and more into Video Games, I discovered soundtracks.
Final Fantasy and such. So 20 year old me starts playing again and learning and learning, not with a teacher, but just playing by ear. Now I can play somewhat okay.
Arround that time I also discovered the world of soundfonts/garritan personal orchestra, eventually got into making my own soundfonts, then small Kontakt Instruments, got a ZoomH4n und just started recording everything. Fun times.


----------



## cedricm (Dec 7, 2021)

Macrawn said:


> I admit I made my son take piano lessons for quite a few years. He never really liked it. Plays in the school band too, never practices doesn't care too much about it. Loaded a bunch of native instruments stuff on his computer. Didn't give a hoot. Complete fail. I just wanted him to do something creative instead of video games.
> 
> Man if I had that stuff when I was a kid.......... Studio One and the best VI instruments.
> 
> ...


He may thank you in 10 years for those piano lessons though.

There's something to be said for very limited means such as a mic and a recorder, some people tend to get a deep understanding of concepts that will help them all their life and learn new things with solid foundations.

If he likes computer, I'd say go for it, but don't install too many things. Let him "destroy" a synth or a software before going the next step, otherwise he could be overwhelmed and paralized by so many choices.

Disclaimer: I don't have kids, although I have godchildren, nieces and nephews aplenty.


----------



## NekujaK (Dec 7, 2021)

You can always take a page out of Billie Eilish's parent's book... when Eilish and brother Finneas were kids, the house rule was as long as they were playing music, they didn't have to go to bed, no matter how late it was. If I grew up in an environment like that, I would be playing music every chance I got - I hated having a rigid bedtime.

And as others have pointed out, you can't force motivation and inspiration. The best you can do is expose them to possibilities and be encouraging, but the spark of interest has to come from within them. Growing up in a family full of opera singers, I was forced to take piano lessons at age 6. Hated every moment of it, and pretty much just went thru the motions. But after several years, I discovered the Beatles (a big taboo in a house full of opera singers ) and suddenly I was obsessed with doing whatever it took to play and write like them, including teaching myself guitar and making multi-track (sound-on-sound) recordings on my dad's reel-to-reel.

Without that spark of internal motivation, I would never have gone down a musical path, no matter how many lessons and gear my parents bought me. But their constant musical encouragement was priceless and the most valuable thing of all.

The real key is that I became CURIOUS. Once curiosity is ignited in a child, the real learning and journey begins. If someone is curious, they don't need to be given gear or lessons - they'll go and figure out for themselves what they need to satisfy their obsessive thirst for knowledge and quest for proficiency.


----------



## DoubleTap (Dec 7, 2021)

No one’s mentioned Bandlab I think? Free, online, ready made loops, and possibly slightly less complex than GarageBand. 

Cakewalk and Tracktion are free too, although my experience of 11yos is that they like touchscreens. But the learning curve of any DAW is so steep even if you know a bit about music, so if he doesn’t play an instrument then maybe DJing might be a better route in - Virtual DJ and Rekordbox are great.


----------



## GregSilver (Dec 7, 2021)

Don't forget 11 years old kids are nowadays more into modern tech than we have been at that age. So a toy-drum or a Bontempi organ won't help  

How about Music Maker Jam for the tablet? When reading the description it seems to check all boxes for an easy start.


----------



## Real Mirage (Dec 7, 2021)

I'm 20 now and when I was 11 I enjoyed playing with some simple midi-making apps on the cell phone. I played the piano as a hobby at that time so I had lots of fun making my arrangements of film/anime themes. I think I would be more than happy to get a midi keyboard as a gift at that time hahaha.
As a classical musician (and a newbie self-learned virtual composer), I would say it couldn't be better to introduce your son to various genres of music. Can't say much about technical stuff for now, but I have had young students learning piano and musical theory with me too. I would suggest don't push or be expecting too much for a child, it's better to be supportive and let them try out things themselves first.


----------



## Futchibon (Dec 7, 2021)

A drumkit! Or an edrum kit with EZD2 and headphones 

What 11 YO boy wouldn't want that? Besides a dirtbike, it was the best present I ever got as a kid!


----------



## easyrider (Dec 7, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> A drumkit! Or an edrum kit with EZD2 and headphones
> 
> What 11 YO boy wouldn't want that? Besides a dirtbike, it was the best present I ever got as a kid!


Well as I posted my 15 year old nephew is just not interested in even venting his frustration out on my kit in the studio!


----------



## SyMTiK (Dec 7, 2021)

This year is the 10 year anniversary of my parents getting me Logic Pro for my 14th birthday, which started this whole journey for me. That gift got me into college and now has turned into a career for me, and changed my life. If my parents weren’t as supportive I don’t think I would be where I am now, it is crazy what a single decision can turn into.

I would say it depends on your child's interest - what instruments do they like? What music do they want to make? I think that is a good place to start. If he plays electric guitar, perhaps a lite version of a DAW to test the waters and a USB interface, with a Neural DSP amp sim? The Neural plugins have really good sales and sound incredibly good! If acoustic then some sort of microphone instead.

I will also say it really has to come from them - my parents have no musical ability or background. They were star athletes. I have horrible coordination and hated playing sports growing up 😂 luckily they let me find my passion and helped fuel it. No matter what, I would introduce your kid to different things and let them figure out what they are passionate about, and support that no matter what!… unless they’re really passionate about robbing convenience stores or something definitely discourage that 😂


----------



## Inventio (Dec 7, 2021)

fourier said:


> Following. I have a 10yr old daughter taking piano lessons and curious about music production, but I've not found the proper "gateway drug" yet. For me, that was Fast Tracker 2.


I have two sons. The little one has an ear better than mine and I feel the responsibility of his music education. For now he is taking group lessons with a mix of Suzuki, Orff and Dalcroze methods. 
The elder one is attracted to rhythm, drums and percussion but I am not able to set up my drums set here where we now live. 

To join the conversation, I have seen that they are especially attracted by my orchestral template (they like to hear and "play" the instruments of the orchestra in the DAW) and... synths. 
I have a few hardware synths and they like to just explore sounds and moving knobs to hear what they do. 

Mhm, I think it's a clear sign we need more synths in the house... 😈


----------



## mybadmemory (Dec 7, 2021)

I would follow interest and passion. If a particular instrument, musical genre, and way of creating appeals to him, just let him peruse that route and support it. For myself, it meant piano lessons, orchestral video game music, and Logic, a midi keyboard, and a SoundCanvas module at age 12.

You just need to be enabled basically, after that things work themselves out and progress to more things naturally if the interest is there. At that age, you’re perfectly capable of seeking out any information needed and learn for yourself if you’re just introduced to something you happen to like. Just don’t force it.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 7, 2021)

rroc said:


> Totally true that ultimately it has to come from within. But how do I best nudge that along...



You need to first find music that he can be passionate about. My parents always knew it was pointless to force me to learn an instrument that I have no interest in. But when I discovered metal, I knew I wanted to learn guitar. So explore some new music with your son, find something he loves, and then you can hint at "you know, you could learn to do this yourself if you want...". 
Genre doesn't matter, be it deathcore, dubstep, jazz or rap, as long as you can find something he has intrinsic motivation for, it has a chance to grow into something bigger organically. When I was 11 I'd probably have enjoyed making loop-based music with the kinds of tools that you can't really call a DAW because they were so limited, like "dance e-jay" or whatever it was called in the 90s.


----------



## David Cuny (Dec 9, 2021)

Here's my general thinking: kids are interested in a lot of things. So make a lot of things available to them. Show them how things work, so they don't get frustrated. If they show interest, great. If not, move on.

Kids get interested in stuff, and then lose interest all the time. They might come back to something, or they might not.

That said, why do you think your son might want to do music production? Are you talking about recording and mixing, or building music from scratch?

If the goal was recording a song, I'd first pick some songs as examples, and map them out. What's the general architecture of the song? What's each instrument in the band doing? What are you paying attention to at each point?

I'd talk about the goals clarity and variety, and how each particular song achieves that. The goal at this point would be to explain how to _think_ about the process. Understanding the goal is fundamental.

I might map out a song or two, talking about how it's structured to bring elements into focus, build excitement at the chorus, and so on.

At this point, I might find some karaoke tracks, or maybe use Spleeter to isolate the instruments. Put the tracks into a DAW and play around with them, experimenting with different mixes.

So far, none of this would really require that much skill with technology.

Assuming he was still interested at this point, I'd come up with a project where I'd create some backing tracks (Band in a Box is a great tool for that) and have him play the guitar part. If you wanted to go into a discussion about basic miking techniques (assuming it's an _acoustic_ guitar), this would be a good place to introduce that. Got lyrics to sing? Even better, because you can have fun with pitch correction at the mixing step.

Then we'd work on creating a mix with that song. I'd avoid using much of anything other than fader automation to sculpt the mix.

By "creating a mix", I mean think about places where some instruments come into prominence, while others might fade back a bit. Drop the drums out on a verse. That sort of basic stuff.

At the end of the process, he'd have a basic idea of song arranging, how to do basic recording, and how to craft an interesting mix. He'd also have some critical listening skills, which he could apply to his own playing.

I wouldn't expect him to have any interest in ever doing it once you were done.

But he'd have the confidence and the skill to succeed if he ever want to.


----------



## GtrString (Dec 10, 2021)

Give him a subscription to Masterclass and have him watch some of the music classes. Then try to find out what he liked, and support that route with proper gear. Maybe he wants an instrument, a pad controller or a gong. Whatever sparks his interest..


----------



## gpax (Dec 10, 2021)

Well, I’ve had hundreds of kids this age, lol. As a middle school teacher for over twenty years, and with a summer camp and after school program in digital music production I created and ran during some of those (wonderful) years, I can say with certainly that making beats (and loops) is king for a lot of kids. It’s a gateway to other musical exploration as well, despite how we carry on here as if that world does not exist.

I’ve also taught digital media of other ilk as well, to 11-14 year olds starved for all of it. Even a phone can be the creative tool that does a lot of things.

Projecting onto this age group our own experiences and expectations is well-meaning by some here, but even those with kids are pretty much admitting that this is a ship that is steered by the individual. Simply encouraging exploration is key - not deciding it on their behalf. I’ve had parents come to me asking the very same thing the OP is asking. And that is the answer I give.

So yes. Beats. Loops. Then see if MIDI sticks with a keyboard that is linked to all of these, like a free Ableton Lite package, or definitely Garage Band (or similar). If money permits, a self contained object like a PO is a possibility, or even one of the Novation synth/rhythm devices that don’t need a cpu to generate ideas. The options are many, and personality is the thing. Feel free to PM if that helps.

I cringe when I read those who project what they believe the child will thank them for years from now, btw. Just let the kid explore and decide their trajectory.


----------



## David Cuny (Dec 10, 2021)

Despite laying out a detailed plan of what _I'd_ do, I'm heartily agreeing with *gpax*.

Know what your kids are interested in, or _might_ be interested, and provide access to the tools that will allow them to be successful in that thing - _if_ they want to explore.

Find out what _they_ consider success, and support, encourage, and where helpful, teach. As they learn about something, the goalposts will change, and they may completely lose interest. That's fine, too. Be flexible.

If there's something you're passionate about, by all means, teach your kids about it. But don't expect them to have the same passion about it. I'm grateful my Dad taught me how to repair cars, and how to build a house. Those skills have come in handy over the years, but I'm also grateful I have enough money to take the car to a mechanic, because I _suck_ at manual labor. It also adds an appreciation for Saturday mornings that I can lounge around my house, instead of getting up to do construction! 

Everyone is different. One of my sons loved drumming, but _hated_ e-drums. Having a tactile feedback was a critical part of the experience for him. Digital didn't work for him at all, no matter how cool the features were. He hated the flute, too - probably one of the least tactile instruments there is.

On the other hand, one of my daughters _loves_ having a digital sketchpad in addition to her paper and pencil. And she enjoys playing the EWI, because it allows her to make beautiful sounds without the hard work.

*Note:* My youngest daughter, - now a young adult - came wandering over to see what sort of bad advice I was giving people. She mentioned that one of my failures was that I'd often not allow for enough interaction and choices for her, but just plowed ahead with dumping information.

*Note on Note*: Youngest daughter here. I _didn't_ say failure, I just _pointed out_ one of my criticisms.  Also, yes, I got bored quickly and didn't have much interest in some of the subjects and retained very little information from them. I remember being sat down to learn coding and watching for what felt like hours about..._something_. Or learning music theory while not actually playing an instrument - but hey! I know the circle of fifths exists!


----------



## fourier (Dec 10, 2021)

Seeing your youngest daughter willfully and eloquently elaborate on past experiences in your post on VI-C is surely evidence that you've done good by her, @David Cuny 

Lots of good thoughts overall here. My daughter is much like me, albeit where I did a multitude of sports as a kid she does a multitude of creative arts instead - I'm not about to try persuade her that something is better than the other, but simply enjoy fatherhood and be supportive.


----------



## gpax (Dec 10, 2021)

David Cuny said:


> Despite laying out a detailed plan of what _I'd_ do, I'm heartily agreeing with *gpax*.
> 
> Know what your kids are interested in, or _might_ be interested, and provide access to the tools that will allow them to be successful in that thing - _if_ they want to explore.
> 
> ...


This.


----------



## Nimrod7 (Dec 11, 2021)

I was also never interested in music, as a 12yo I was watching my sister doing piano lessons, which seemed to be the most boring thing ever. My sister was also seems bored, despite that she had a journey playing Tuba & Bouzouki apart from Piano, but just in her teens never touched an instrument after that.

Turrican got me into soundtracks, which got me into trackers, which got me into collecting samples, etc.

I didn't touch a physical instrument / theory until much much later, when I understood the value myself, and became the next thing I needed to evolve my music.


----------

