# Symphony Series: String Ensemble - Yay or Nay?



## Zhao Shen (Nov 7, 2015)

Let me start off by saying kudos to the Audiobro team for their work on the library. I have no doubt that it will be very useful to a great number of people, and it is a testament to your team's ability that Native Instruments sought you out for their debut in orchestral strings.

That being said, I am somewhat confused about the reception this library is getting, so I'm doing a poll to gather some of your opinions!

*---The following section is 100% my own opinion and completely subjective---*

Here's my personal opinion. And I know many of you will disagree with me, but I just want to get my points out there and see if they have any merit (plus, you guys are quite skilled at making convincing arguments, so who knows, maybe my thoughts will be swayed).

OK, here I go... I don't like it. I haven't used it yet so I am speaking from the view of the typical potential customer, but judging from the demos and walkthroughs, there is just no attraction for me. Some of the things I liked are the interface (of course, a gorgeous piece of art), the samples being in divisi (often useful), and the inclusion of a good amount of articulations. But here are my main points of contention:

1) The scripting. The legatos sound unconvincing to me. I don't know if it's just me, but from what I've heard so far from the library, I could tell you it was MIDI from the very first legato transition.

2) The sound. In a word: bland. As someone has pointed out to me, the library being sampled in divisi makes it a bit harder to get that gorgeous orchestral lushness, but still, the sound is not ideal. Even the shorts lack a certain...oomph.

3) The sampling. This is most apparent in the maximum 4x RR on every short note articulation. Come on, even EW Symphonic Orchestra (a 10+ year old library) had 8x RR. Granted, the dynamic layers may not have been as fleshed out, but still.

4) This one's more of a quirk than a flaw, but the lack of consistency. Symphony Series: Brass was recorded in a different hall, in a different spacial positioning of instruments, and by a different team. The demos seem to show the sound blending quite well, but it's an interesting approach - especially since everything is under the "Symphony Series" banner.

I know that SS:SE is meant to introduce people to the orchestral realm of sampling, but that isn't an excuse for lacking some pretty darn important characteristics. Even for beginners, there are better options. Anyway, that's my opinion. Let me know what you guys think - am I justified, misguided, or a moron?  I welcome (and respect) your thoughts!


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## kitekrazy (Nov 7, 2015)

Zhao Shen said:


> Let me start off by saying kudos to the Audiobro team for their work on the library. I have no doubt that it will be very useful to a great number of people, and it is a testament to your team's ability that Native Instruments sought you out for their debut in orchestral strings.
> 
> That being said, I am somewhat confused about the reception this library is getting, so I'm doing a poll to clarify.
> 
> ...



Beginners often look at price. These are people who are not looking into making money of their music. Price often overrides quality and most of them could not detect what you mentioned. Beginners that have the better options are the ones using EWQLO Gold on sale. If someone buys Kontakt for the first time there is really nothing wrong with the included orchestra.

You might see this library in Komplete 15 Ultimate maybe sooner.


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## quantum7 (Nov 7, 2015)

I've never really cared that much for the sound of Audiobro's strings unfortunately....I know most people like them, but it's just my personal taste. For a lack of a better description, they just sound a bit too rough....again, just my personal taste. Their scripting and customer service/interaction and innovation is to be commended though IMO. My dream string lib would be Spitfire's recording and Audiobro's scripting meshed together.


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## reddognoyz (Nov 7, 2015)

quantum7 said:


> I've never really cared that much for the sound of Au and diobro's strings unfortunately....I know most people like them, but it's just my personal taste. For a lack of a better description, they just sound a bit too rough....again, just my personal taste. Their scripting and customer service/interaction and innovation is to be commended though IMO. My dream string lib would be Spitfire's recording and Audiobro's scripting meshed together.



Funny that. I have had the opposite practical application reaction. It has to do with what I am writing but LASS works better for me. I am only comparing to the albion1 and ALBION ONE strings as I don't have their other Spitfire string collections, which I think sound fantastic, but often are the wrong scale/sound for my work. When I do need something sweeping and melodic I often turn to them, but the shorts and particularly the divisi sord and trems are great and very transparent.


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## gpax (Nov 7, 2015)

Zhao Shen said:


> That being said, I am somewhat confused about the reception this library is getting, so I'm doing a poll to clarify.


To clarify what? The fact that some like it, while you do not? What is there that is confusing about this?

I understand sharing opinions and generating discussion, especially if you are wanting to facilitate input as to whether one would buy or not. But this looks and feels like a rant masquerading as a poll, and your motives here are questionable to me. 

For what purpose have you singled out this product launch to demonstrate what you see as a failure? Are you trying to send Native Instruments a personal message to stay out of the orchestral sampling business? 

There are a number of ample products out there that meet the standards you invoke in your bullet points, and each is worthy of constructive dialogue. Why then rally against something you have no intention of buying? Why start a thread that looks like a poll, but where you are are focused on stating your dislike front and center?

But I see no “buyer beware” in this product at all. I do see/hear a different approach that several are finding to be appealing, but which is arguably not for everyone.

Your opinions are justified; I fear this thread is misguided. 

- gpax


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## Zhao Shen (Nov 7, 2015)

gpax said:


> To clarify what? The fact that some like it, while you do not? What is there that is confusing about this?
> 
> I understand sharing opinions and generating discussion, especially if you are wanting to facilitate input as to whether one would buy or not. But this looks and feels like a rant masquerading as a poll, and your motives here are questionable to me.
> 
> ...


Perhaps clarify is not the perfect word - I wanted to get a sense of how everyone felt about it. Though this thread isn't flattering by any means, I feel that your criticism is somewhat unfair - I do not have an agenda here, and only wish to offer my personal opinions (which people can easily ignore) and gather an informal data set for my personal peace of mind. And as an advocate of both NI and Audiobro, I am certainly not searching for a way to cast any negative light on either, and neither do I hate the library - I voted "It seems decent" in the poll.

If the moderators see this thread as something that is unhealthy or not constructive for the forum, feel free to take it down. I envisioned this as more of a "here are some points that I have from my point of view, feel free to chip in with your own opinions" type of thing rather than "here are some points I have and I am right."


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## constaneum (Nov 8, 2015)

Relax fellas. No need to argue. For me, I don't care what other people think as long as I like it, I'll buy. Don't let others drive you. Believe in your own eyes and ears. Watch the tutorials or walk through videos and decide whether to buy or not to buy. I was once convinced to buy a product (don't wanna mention names here) basing on lots of ppl's recommendations but ended up with casting aside the library after purchased and used it once or twice. The legato was horrible, too much out of tune notes but they said it's built in and intendedly sampled that way for realism . I have no idea how others can praise that awful ensemble library. Ever since, ive decided to blacklist that company for orchestral stuffs. I rather judge a library myself and decide by my own, not to be misjudged and misled by others. Don't forget that a good library might be ended up in a trash coz of loyal fans from other sample companies supporting their "idols". Spitfire fans might dislike East West, Cinessmples and vice versa....


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## Lode_Runner (Nov 8, 2015)

It looks really good to me, although admittedly I am a beginner when it comes to orchestral libraries. I love the idea of just having one patch per section with all articulations readily available through keyswitches and velocity and with the ability to weave in and out of unison and divisi on the fly, so that you can just play and improvise. From about 2:20-3:10 on the first walk-through video there's a quick demo of the various articulations in the violins patch and they all sound gorgeous to me, particularly the harmonics/flageolet (I'm hoping for another video that demos the violas, cellos and basses in the same way). And of course the price is great with the cross-grade for Komplete owners. Had I not just bought Hollywood Orchestra and Albion One, I'd be giving this serious consideration. The only concern I have, as so many others have said, is that it's a very different sound to the brass - delicate vs big.


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## Baron Greuner (Nov 8, 2015)

Yay, but would still appreciate it greatly if someone who hath taken the plunge, would kindly put up some examples of naked ladies playing naked violas and naked basses. Many thanks. 

Baron Greuner


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## ysnyvz (Nov 8, 2015)

I don't understand why you are trying to be so negative about this library since you heard demos.
4 RR is not a bad thing. With multiple velocity layers, random round robin playback and maybe neighbouring zones, a library can sound pretty good.
I have a string library with 10 RR for spiccatos, but I don't like its playability and sound at all.
Sometimes I like a library demo or walkthrough. But when I try it myself, my opinion changes a lot about it.


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## The Darris (Nov 8, 2015)

How many velocity layers does this library have? When you actually start to really work with and create your own instruments, you learn that you can sacrifice round robin sampling for more velocity layers. The other caveat is also neighboring sample round robin which is very effective. So, I'd honestly rather have a lighter patch size with 4RR than 10+RRs but that is my opinion. When it comes to sampled short articulations, my ears have been able to pick up the lack of dynamic layers before I start to hear the repeated samples. 

As for this post, fishing the forum for people to express their love or dread for a product doesn't seem like a good idea. In the end, you have to decide if you like it or not. From what I can see and hear, this library competes with the pro market very well while also making it extremely accessible to those who aren't working composers. Not many string libraries can say that so the more on the market the better (for the consumer that is). It all boils down to your output. If you don't think this library will work for you, so be it.


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## kurtvanzo (Nov 8, 2015)

I actually think Zhao's thread and questions are legit guys. How many times have we read threads that changed our minds, or at least got us to go back and take a second listen? And more than once someone here has pointed out an advantage to a library that I didn't realize existed- only to change my mind about it and later on, I buy it. Videos and especially demos don't always tell you the full story.

As far as this library I think audiobro did a great job. I just think there is too much competition out there for strings right now. I think having more controls and a better legato system (Berlin Strings?) would work better for me, but I may not be their target audience.


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## pmountford (Nov 8, 2015)

I wonder whether this type of thread will affect sales and that in my mind is a little unfair. Surely these forums are at their best with informed knowledge ie. Opinions from those using the library not from listening to a few demos?


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## kurtvanzo (Nov 8, 2015)

pmountford said:


> I wonder whether this type of thread will affect sales and that in my mind is a little unfair. Surely these forums are at their best with informed knowledge ie. Opinions from those using the library not from listening to a few demos?



This thread is seeking opinions. I'm not sure you can say it is unfair if he states his own first, especially if he asks to be shown differently. Listening to some newer demos (they sound great) it may sway in the other direction. And if this thread ends up Helping sales would you say that was unfair too? Not sure you can have fairness without allowing some time for the coin to fall either way. For me I'm hoping to see how this library can be used best. i agree some actual users chiming in would be great.


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## gpax (Nov 8, 2015)

kurtvanzo said:


> This thread is seeking opinions. I'm not sure you can say it is unfair if he states his own first, especially if he asks to be shown differently. Listening to some newer demos (they sound great) it may sway in the other direction. And if this thread ends up Helping sales would you say that was unfair too? Not sure you can have fairness without allowing some time for the coin to fall either way. For me I'm hoping to see how this library can be used best. i agree some actual users chiming in would be great.


I agree in principle, but Zhao ended his post by asking for input as to whether he was being justified, misguided or moronic. I simply stated my impressions:

I clicked on what looks like an objective poll to see it framed by a strong rationale against the product’s viability. Apart from Zhao emphatically stating he did not like it from the onset, he ends by suggesting that the product is perhaps not even up to standards for entry-level use.

Those are strong words for a product he does not own, and which has not fully left the starting gate. I see nothing unreasonable or unfair in asking how he reconciles that with not owning it, or with the poll itself, particularly as I consider other VI-C users who seem to feel it is necessary to assert a litmus test each time a new product is announced.

I believe in open, honest discussion as well, but I don’t always assume every thread is purely benign in this respect. There is often baggage behind some posts, and I often find myself weeding through those opinions to get at the essence of what is or is not being fairly conveyed. The Symphonic Series Brass took a similar beating, and having eventually added it to my already rich BML brass, I now consider it to be one of the best surprises of the year, even though it defies some of the same sampling conventions and philosophy stated by Zhao as lacking in the SSES.

When someone asserts strong opinions about a product they have not personally tested, and then creates a poll asking for others’ input, I’m going to request accountability as well. To me, deconstructing some comments is also part of the information gathering process.


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## pmountford (Nov 8, 2015)

@kurtvanzo I guess I would have liked to hear more from actual users rather than those who have just listened to the demos. Don't wish to derail this thread though.

When I was referring to sales, I was just thinking whether these sort of polls help form some users' opinions prematurely, rightly or wrongly. Likewise I know I've purchased libraries after recommendations/hype on this forum only later to regret them.


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## Zhao Shen (Nov 8, 2015)

pmountford said:


> I wonder whether this type of thread will affect sales and that in my mind is a little unfair. Surely these forums are at their best with informed knowledge ie. Opinions from those using the library not from listening to a few demos?


I highly doubt that this small thread would affect the sales of NI's debut orchestral strings. I do agree that opinions from those using the library should be valued above my own, but I have heard very few of those people chime in - so if you are in that position, know that we're all begging for your input! 

But perhaps "uninformed" is not the right word to use here. As a fanatic of orchestral sample libraries, I am trying to keep up with every development, so I believe my situation is one that reflects a customer who has done their research - just like many other potential customers out there. Whether or not their digging brings them to the same conclusions is another matter entirely. I think the thread is being misunderstood as an opportunity for me to assert my opinion and do what I can to ruin the release of SS:ES. It's not. I'm just offering my thoughts and asking you guys for yours, in the hopes that we can create a constructive discussion. Obviously that failed.  Maybe the fact that the main thread post is my opinion makes me appear to have some malicious intent, but if this was a poll and I commented on it with the exact same post, I doubt it would invoke the same response.

So yeah, made some edits to the original post to separate my opinions from the poll.


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## JPQ (Nov 8, 2015)

I comment based NI demos i simply i dont like somethin their sound same applies little also for LASS. actually i prefer CInematic Strings 2 based audio demos also VSL.(i own only VSL Special edition volume 1 standard and thinking what heck i add to it i know my budget is very limited,and my computer also limits much). Also Project Sam and Spitfire sounds is my taste.


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## The Darris (Nov 8, 2015)

Thanks @Zhao Shen for updating your post. I think that is a much better way to handle this topic. 

So, I voted for the second option. As did the majority thus far. I listened to every demo and I will say this. There are demos that weren't done well at all and really don't show this library in a good light. However, I don't think that is because the library sucks but just shows that those using it didn't do that great a job. I think I've worked long and hard enough to know poor midi programming when I hear it. The other end is that I think a few of the composers were trying to get something out of this library that it couldn't do. Every single library out there has a weakness and it is up to us, the consumers, to learn how to use them properly to yield the best results. 

In the end, I don't just look at a library's weakness but rather its strengths. SS:SE is capable of doing a number of great things. I do like the sound of this particular string ensemble in the space they've recorded it. It is something new and refreshing when it comes to the string palette. I happen to like the legato sound quite a bit and I think they did an excellent job when it comes to polyphonic legato scripting (disclaimer; can't fully make an opinion because I haven't felt the performance aspect of it). Despite not having actual hands-on experience with the polyphonic legato scripting, I do like the sound it was producing compared to other libraries that also have this feature.

This library has definitely sparked my interest even more now that I've really looked into it and watched the videos closely. I think it is great that Audiobro has teamed up with NI to produce a product that is not only affordable for the hobbyist but sounds like a pro product ready for any quality production work. 

It might be too early to say but it appears that many users and lurkers of this product are liking what they see. 

Best,

C


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## constaneum (Nov 9, 2015)

I really wish some users will be able to make a thorough review on this wonderful library. let's hope someone will do that. =D


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## gpax (Nov 9, 2015)

The Darris said:


> Thanks @Zhao Shen for updating your post.


+ 1


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## garylionelli (Nov 9, 2015)

Zhao Shen said:


> OK, here I go... I don't like it. I haven't used it yet so I am speaking from the view of the typical potential customer, but judging from the demos and walkthroughs, there is just no attraction for me. Some of the things I liked are the interface (of course, a gorgeous piece of art), the samples being in divisi (often useful), and the inclusion of a good amount of articulations. But here are my main points of contention:
> 
> 1) The scripting. The legatos sound unconvincing to me. I don't know if it's just me, but from what I've heard so far from the library, I could tell you it was MIDI from the very first legato transition.
> 
> ...



This kind of harsh critique should only come from someone who owns and has used the library. Publishing these types of statements from only listening to online demos is without merit, in my opinion. I choose to disregard these types of reviews.


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## prodigalson (Nov 9, 2015)

garylionelli said:


> This kind of harsh critique should only come from someone who owns and has used the library. Publishing these types of statements from only listening to online demos is without merit, in my opinion. I choose to disregard these types of reviews.



+1000


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## Dirk Ehlert (Nov 9, 2015)

I'm currently putting a little cue together and will do a YT walkthrough. Hopefully that can shed some light on it. I really like the lib so far for a) sound, b) ease of use. I often like to layer and get me the best from different (string) libs but for the sake of a little demo I'll stick to SESS only. Cheers

PS: I did this little cue right after the download for a "first little test", that cue is only 4 midi channels, was mainly interested how the divisi works...


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## Zhao Shen (Nov 9, 2015)

garylionelli said:


> This kind of harsh critique should only come from someone who owns and has used the library. Publishing these types of statements from only listening to online demos is without merit, in my opinion. I choose to disregard these types of reviews.


And that is your right. I would refrain from calling this a review though. I'm not offering my judgment on the product's performance; I'm merely pointing out some areas that seem shaky to me as a potential customer.


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## kavinsky (Nov 9, 2015)

de_signs said:


> PS: I did this little cue right after the download for a "first little test", that cue is only 4 midi channels, was mainly interested how the divisi works...



wow, I really like it. the vibrato is just spot on at times.
spiccs are pretty decent too and harmonics sound absolutely beautiful

the tone is definitely there, love the sound.

I guess I'll get it at the end of the week after all


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## kitekrazy (Nov 9, 2015)

Zhao Shen said:


> And that is your right. I would refrain from calling this a review though. I'm not offering my judgment on the product's performance; I'm merely pointing out some areas that seem shaky to me as a potential customer.



Agree. I think if you want to sell a library you want the best demos possible.


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## Dirk Ehlert (Nov 9, 2015)

Okay guys, here you go...
 
Littel fumble through with SESS. Nothing epic, big production etc, just a plain "first hands on look" at the library and its functions.
Cheers


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## Zhao Shen (Nov 9, 2015)

de_signs said:


> Okay guys, here you go...
> 
> Littel fumble through with SESS. Nothing epic, big production etc, just a plain "first hands on look" at the library and its functions.
> Cheers



Dirk! You're a champ - thanks for this!


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## LamaRose (Nov 9, 2015)

Thanks for the walkthrough... very instructive.


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## constaneum (Nov 10, 2015)

Hey Dirk. I'm aware tat Cinematic Strings is quite CPU intensive. LASS on the other is quite light on CPU. Therefore, wondering how's CPU usage for this library.


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## Dirk Ehlert (Nov 10, 2015)

constaneum said:


> Hey Dirk. I'm aware tat Cinematic Strings is quite CPU intensive. LASS on the other is quite light on CPU. Therefore, wondering how's CPU usage for this library.


Haven't exactly watched the CPU meter but didn't spot any oddities. so I'd say quite normal...


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## 5Lives (Nov 10, 2015)

Thanks for the walkthrough - doesn't sound too bad to me. And seems very playable. It's like LASS without needing to deal with the stage and color stuff (and cheaper, but without first chairs). For the price though, there's also Cinematic Strings 2, Mural, CineStrings, etc.


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## constaneum (Nov 10, 2015)

I love the longs but spics wise somehow didn't capture my interest but that can be replaced with something else. In my opinion, the selling point will be the following

1) out of box sound
2) fast sketch
3) simplicity and ease of usability 
4) auto divisi (this will be my main purchase reason but not for now. Waiting for better currency exchange rate.)


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## Vision (Nov 11, 2015)

garylionelli said:


> This kind of harsh critique should only come from someone who owns and has used the library. Publishing these types of statements from only listening to online demos is without merit, in my opinion. I choose to disregard these types of reviews.



I have to, respectfully, disagree with this. Generally, beta testers are given at a least month to get acclimated with the software. They take the time, and put substantial effort into these demos. Then they get scrutinized to see which ones make the cut. In my experience, you're going to get what you hear from the chosen demos, and the official walkthroughs. 

There are so many other string library choices out there.. I can listen to any given library demo, and determine immediately if it is something I can use. What I'm mostly hearing from these NI demos is that, in my opinion, this library is actually limiting some of the compositions. Especially most of the compositions featuring staccato/staccatissimo.


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## Tpulse (Nov 11, 2015)

Vision said:


> I have to, respectfully, disagree with this. Generally, beta testers are given at a least month to get acclimated with the software. They take the time, and put substantial effort into these demos. Then they get scrutinized to see which ones make the cut. In my experience, you're going to get what you hear from the chosen demos, and the official walkthroughs.
> 
> There are so many other string library choices out there.. I can listen to any given library demo, and determine immediately if it is something I can use. What I'm mostly hearing from these NI demos is that, in my opinion, this library is actually limiting some of the compositions. Especially most of the compositions featuring staccato/staccatissimo.


Whar else is limiting other than the staccato/staccatissimo?


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## garylionelli (Nov 11, 2015)

Vision said:


> I have to, respectfully, disagree with this. Generally, beta testers are given at a least month to get acclimated with the software. They take the time, and put substantial effort into these demos. Then they get scrutinized to see which ones make the cut. In my experience, you're going to get what you hear from the chosen demos, and the official walkthroughs.
> 
> There are so many other string library choices out there.. I can listen to any given library demo, and determine immediately if it is something I can use. What I'm mostly hearing from these NI demos is that, in my opinion, this library is actually limiting some of the compositions. Especially most of the compositions featuring staccato/staccatissimo.



There isn’t a single instrument library anywhere the world that doesn’t limit composition to some degree compared to working with real living and breathing musicians!

These library developers sweat and toil for years to come out with these products. You mention time and substantial effort. Consider for a moment all the endless, laborious, and monotonous recording sessions, and then the never-ending months of editing it takes to create a string library such as this. Then someone on the internet comes along who has not even used the library and––in an instant--dismisses it barely two days after it was released. Buy the library, and work with it; then you are respectively coming from a position of having had some experience with the product to make such public statements.

BTW, I bought the library, and I think it's great!


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## SillyMidOn (Nov 11, 2015)

Vision said:


> I have to, respectfully, disagree with this. Generally, beta testers are given at a least month to get acclimated with the software. They take the time, and put substantial effort into these demos. Then they get scrutinized to see which ones make the cut. In my experience, you're going to get what you hear from the chosen demos, and the official walkthroughs.
> 
> There are so many other string library choices out there.. I can listen to any given library demo, and determine immediately if it is something I can use. What I'm mostly hearing from these NI demos is that, in my opinion, this library is actually limiting some of the compositions. Especially most of the compositions featuring staccato/staccatissimo.



... Have written demos for libraries in my time and have never, ever had a whole month to write a demo... usually just a few days....


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## Vision (Nov 11, 2015)

Tpulse said:


> Whar else is limiting other than the staccato/staccatissimo?



Personal opinion.. I wasn't too fond of some of the sustains in the demos. In regards to the shorts, I probably should've said "particularly", as opposed to "especially".


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## Vision (Nov 11, 2015)

garylionelli said:


> There isn’t a single instrument library anywhere the world that doesn’t limit composition to some degree compared to working with real living and breathing musicians!
> 
> These library developers sweat and toil for years to come out with these products. You mention time and substantial effort. Consider for a moment all the endless, laborious, and monotonous recording sessions, and then the never-ending months of editing it takes to create a string library such as this. Then someone on the internet comes along who has not even used the library and––in an instant--dismisses it barely two days after it was released. Buy the library, and work with it; then you are respectively coming from a position of having had some experience with the product to make such public statements.
> 
> BTW, I bought the library, and I think it's great!



Definitely wasn't my intent to rain on anyone's parade.. If you like the sound, by all means enjoy the library. I just happen to disagree about actually being able to hear what you can do with a sample library, without being hands on. The walkthroughs, and demos were enough for me to get an idea of the sound character of the library. Maybe I just speak for myself.. That's fine. I'm generally accurate. I don't expect everyone else to go about it the same way I do.

By the way, I don't believe Zhao dismissed it "in an instant". Seems to me he scrutinized it enough to come to a thoughtful conclusion. I didn't think the library was all bad btw.. It's just that I personally feel there are some weaknesses. Just being honest.


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## Vision (Nov 11, 2015)

SillyMidOn said:


> ... Have written demos for libraries in my time and have never, ever had a whole month to write a demo... usually just a few days....



It varies per developer. This hasn't been my experience. You're right not a full month.. Generally a few weeks though.


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## FriFlo (Nov 11, 2015)

I'd say this Library is what ist is. It comes with a relatively slim amount of articulations, but is very affordable. It may not sound great in every aspect, but which library actually does? I can tell you some patches I don't like in every string library and I have many ... Over all, it definitively does not sound bad. Then there is something really new about it and that is a live divisi script, which is very attractive IMO. Even more so, becaus you don't loose the ability to get every desk as a single track and work out details. All in all, I think I will pick it up at some time. I just don't trust NI in selling single instruments. So far, every single thing they released landed in Komplete (Ultimate). Of course , they say it won't, but I don't trust them with this.


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