# Do I need Metropolis Ark?



## Ron Kords (Aug 8, 2017)

Hi all,

I'm going to be doing some Epic composition/pieces.

I have Spitifre SSO, Albion 1 and Perc, NI Komplete 11 and Soundiron Venus (no male choir)

I've only dipped my toe in but I'm not sure if the Spitfire stuff is really going to cut it in terms of 'Massive / End of Days' 

Does anyone have Ark 1 and SSO...? Silly question.... 

Do I need to up my game (probably) or will Metropolis noticeably improve what I can achieve? Anything better than Ark 1 if so...?


Was so sure I'd never have to buy another orch' library once I'd bought SSO.... 


Thanks!


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## Consona (Aug 8, 2017)

Ron Kords said:


> I have Spitifre SSO


If SSO means entire Spitfire Orchestra then no, you don't need anything else...

Holy**** I still cannot believe there actually are people who own the whole package...


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## MA-Simon (Aug 8, 2017)

Not shure.

You already have the Phalanx Horns, Trombones and Trumpets with SSO, so Ark1 would be more of the same.
What Ark does have over SSO is Swells and crescendos.

While the Ark Choir is very nice, check out Storm Choir 2 for a similar thing, but with more Articulations.
The Thunder percussion lineup is also very interesting and has lots of unusual combos.


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## Quasar (Aug 8, 2017)

Albion III ICENI? I have this and it seems pretty thunderous to me, but I can't compare it to Ark or SSO.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Aug 8, 2017)

I have both (SA Orchestra and MA1), but from my standpoint: No, No, and no.

Your tools can cover your needs considering you have some solid chops. 

But if you want to have MA1, go and buy it. It is a cool sampler and does sound great. If your epic approach means for you to be the loudest screaming dude, then get MA1 because it has recorded triple forte dynamics and can be very nasty brutal loud.


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 8, 2017)

Ron Kords said:


> I've only dipped my toe in but I'm not sure if the Spitfire stuff is really going to cut it in terms of 'Massive / End of Days'



This is the biggest issue with most of us...since there is no sale on Ark 1 see if what you have will get you there....learn your libraries, you spent enough money on them so see what they can do before spending more. ARK 1 is great but learning SSO seems more prudent.


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## Ron Kords (Aug 8, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I have both (SA Orchestra and MA1), but from my standpoint: No, No, and no.
> 
> Your tools can cover your needs considering you have some solid chops.
> 
> But if you want to have MA1, go and buy it. It is a cool sampler and does sound great. If your epic approach means for you to be the loudest screaming dude, then get MA1 because it has recorded triple forte dynamics and can be very nasty brutal loud.


Thanks Alexander,

Would you turn to Ark 1 or SF for an Epic thing first off (lack of Ark woods accepted). Is Ark quicker / more intuitive for this style. I guess I'm looking for Albion 1 on steroids!


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## Ron Kords (Aug 8, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> This is the biggest issue with most of us...since there is no sale on Ark 1 see if what you have will get you there....learn your libraries, you spent enough money on them so see what they can do before spending more. ARK 1 is great but learning SSO seems more prudent.


Hi Craig, pretty bad explanation by me. I'm pretty familiar on SSO. Toe dipping is Epic related


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Aug 8, 2017)

If I would be under a certain pressure with my deadline and would need some quicker results, I would go with MA1. So much I do love SSO for its sound and other possibilities, I am honest: You need to tweak SSO definitely more. And ArK I is bit more consolidated towards the epic thing. So you have everything packed together and at one place and very foccused articulations aimed towards that genre, for instance all those swells, drums, choirs etc.. 

PS: The are at least some Low Woods in MA1. ; )


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## Ron Kords (Aug 8, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> If I would be under a certain pressure with my deadline and would need some quicker results, I would go with MA1. So much I do love SSO for its sound and other possibilities, I am honest: You need to tweak SSO definitely more. And ArK I is bit more consolidated towards the epic thing. So you have everything packed together and at one place and very foccused articulations aimed towards that genre, for instance all those swells, drums, choirs etc..
> 
> PS: The are at least some Low Woods in MA1. ; )


Thanks - that's really helpful. Nothing quite like a bass clarinet


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Aug 8, 2017)

Ron Kords said:


> Thanks - that's really helpful. Nothing quite like a bass clarinet



No, hehe. I think some contrabass bassoons.:D


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## Ron Kords (Aug 8, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> No, hehe. I think some contrabass bassoons.:D


That's deep, man...


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Aug 8, 2017)

Ron Kords said:


> That's deep, man...


yep, nice and farty in their very lows, excellent doublers for cellos, bass trombones and tuba at the octave. Sounds pretty nice and massive. Love my Bass Bassoonbabies all the time.


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## Mike Fox (Aug 8, 2017)

Pretty sure you could get epic sounding stuff with what you have. Ark 1 is nice, because you don't have to spend much time with It to sound good. The choir is also outstanding. My only complaint with Ark 1 is that the reverb cannot be dialed out, and it's a pretty wet library. I'm pretty sure that's part of what makes it sound epic though.


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## Mike Fox (Aug 8, 2017)

Quasar said:


> Albion III ICENI? I have this and it seems pretty thunderous to me, but I can't compare it to Ark or SSO.


Ark 1 is the MUCH better library. Though there are some big sounding patches in Iceni, it's pretty limited. I always have difficulty with getting it to sit in my mixes too. There also seems to be a strange midrange presence in those samples. I dunno, I don't use it much because of that. Ark 1 mixes well with every library I've tried with it thus far.


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## Quasar (Aug 8, 2017)

mikefox789 said:


> Ark 1 is the MUCH better library. Though there are some big sounding patches in Iceni, it's pretty limited. I always have difficulty with getting it to sit in my mixes too. There also seems to be a strange midrange presence in those samples. I dunno, I don't use it much because of that. Ark 1 mixes well with every library I've tried with it thus far.


You may well be right, and I don't have the cash to find out 1st hand. But there is something gritty, with a bit of dirt (I don't know how else to say it) about the Albion series in general that really appeals to me, and they all (even Tundra) sort of tie in together. Maybe it's the Air thing, which gives it an honest, earthy, pastoral quality or something. I don't know, but it's akin to why I prefer 1 Legacy to demos of ONE, which to my ears seemed to move a bit away from this quality for a more polished & urban, contemporary "in your face" kind of vibe.

And the mid range in ICENI is essentially its high end. Not sure what you mean by "strange presence". I guess it's an idiosyncratic thing, and it either works for you or it doesn't. There's no right and wrong here I don't think.

But I wouldn't pretend to have a clue what would work best for Ron Kords. Learning to better use what one has is always sage advice, and Met Ark 1 could well be much better for whatever epic aspirations he has in mind.


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## Mike Fox (Aug 8, 2017)

Quasar said:


> You may well be right, and I don't have the cash to find out 1st hand. But there is something gritty, with a bit of dirt (I don't know how else to say it) about the Albion series in general that really appeals to me, and they all (even Tundra) sort of tie in together. Maybe it's the Air thing, which gives it an honest, earthy, pastoral quality or something. I don't know, but it's akin to why I prefer 1 Legacy to demos of ONE, which to my ears seemed to move a bit away from this quality for a more polished & urban, contemporary "in your face" kind of vibe.
> 
> And the mid range in ICENI is essentially its high end. Not sure what you mean by "strange presence". I guess it's an idiosyncratic thing, and it either works for you or it doesn't. There's no right and wrong here I don't think.
> 
> But I wouldn't pretend to have a clue what would work best for Ron Kords. Learning to better use what one has is always sage advice, and Met Ark 1 could well be much better for whatever epic aspirations he has in mind.


There just seems to be a nasty midrange frequency spike with Iceni. I mostly notice it with the strings when compared to my other libs. Maybe It's just me? There definitely is something raw about the overall sound of the library that I really do enjoy though!


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## Jorgakis (Aug 8, 2017)

The funny thing is, I couldn't live without MA 1, and I'm mostly composing non-epic stuff (meaning rather symphonic). But I really need the Brass, and often use the choir if I want through in some voices. I think you will find some unique patches that you will always use in future works.
Though I have to say that I own mostly the EW Hollywood orchestra and Cinematic Strings. Don't know how satisfying the SF Orchestra is...


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## Arviwan (Aug 8, 2017)

MA1's brass & choir are ... outstanding ? Impressive ?
When i want "loud" brass i always return to MA1.Same for choir. And though they don't play _pp, _you still can use them with some kind of subtlety. If you want an example, here is a piece where i used brass & choir :



I really seldom use the strings, but sometimes the percs.
I agree with MikeFox789 about the reverb.
This was my 1st ever library and i'm still in love with those brass ! 
Hopefully there will be some kind of promotion in december ... maybe a bundle MA1 & 2 ...
Hope it helped


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## Mike Fox (Aug 8, 2017)

If I were to start all over, and could only buy 1 library, Ark 1 would be it (well maybe Hollywood Orchestra). There's just so much variety. The choir is so easy to use, and sounds incredible. I would learn to deal with the reverb, as opposed to stacking it with dryer instruments.


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## Saxer (Aug 8, 2017)

Ark I is a good library, no question.
But all this loud stuff, especially in brass and low woodwinds, is very bright and bright things can get really thin in the mix of a dense arrangement. You always need to fatten things up in the midrange frequencies.
What I think is missing in SSO for hybrid epic is controllable dryness. On top of pads and drones I'd miss the bite of dry and tight spiccatos and other orchestral rhythmic stuff that can cut through pads, drums and synths. So I'd look for things like Musicalsampling or LASS instead of adding a wet orchestral library to a wet orchestral library. That's only relevant if you do hybrid instrumentation. But if you stay in the orchestral world and don't need the choir and drums of ARK1 you are fine with SSO anyway.


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## sostenuto (Aug 8, 2017)

Saxer said:


> Ark I is a good library, no question.
> But all this loud stuff, especially in brass and low woodwinds, is very bright and bright things can get really thin in the mix of a dense arrangement. You always need to fatten things up in the midrange frequencies.
> What I think is missing in SSO for hybrid epic is controllable dryness. On top of pads and drones I'd miss the bite of dry and tight spiccatos and other orchestral rhythmic stuff that can cut through pads, drums and synths. So I'd look for things like Musicalsampling or LASS instead of adding a wet orchestral library to a wet orchestral library. That's only relevant if you do hybrid instrumentation. But if you stay in the orchestral world and don't need the choir and drums of ARK1 you are fine with SSO anyway.



Apologies OP, but this struck a nerve !

@ Saxer ... even as very new to everything orchestral/cinematic/epic, your post is a breath of fresh air !!

Staggering around now, having recently lurched to: Sonuscore_The Orchestra, OT_BO_Inspire, then Albion ONE.
Of those spasmodic lurches, Albion ONE remains most 'iffy'.
After your post, am now reviewing carefully ... MusicalSampling.

As NI Komplete11 Ultimate user,  how does Symphony Series differ from current LASS ?? 
Having bad feelings now having passed Summer promo with ALL of Symphony Series offered @ usd 450.

Where might I go now ?? .... in context with OP Thread? M Ark(s) well down short list.


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## Mike Fox (Aug 8, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Apologies OP, but this struck a nerve !
> 
> @ Saxer ... even as very new to everything orchestral/cinematic/epic, your post is a breath of fresh air !!
> 
> ...



I have no idea why you quoted my post.


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## sostenuto (Aug 8, 2017)

mikefox789 said:


> I have no idea why you quoted my post.




No clue why is got caught up either, but edited it out. 
Very positive regard for OT / M Ark(s), but must delay until terrible euro/usd xchg penalty remains.
ex. today MA1 is $605 usd AFTER BO_I 50 euro code !


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## skythemusic (Aug 8, 2017)

Is Ark2 any drier than 1 or more of the same?


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## Mike Fox (Aug 8, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> No clue why is got caught up either, but edited it out.
> Very positive regard for OT / M Ark(s), but must delay until terrible euro/usd xchg penalty remains.


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## moosethree (Aug 8, 2017)

MK1 MK 2 and Inspire are quite a bundle


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## Arviwan (Aug 9, 2017)

@sostenuto :
about N.I Symphonic Series : 
- the strings are really good (especially with the auto-divisi function), well balanced between "cinematic" and "real/roisin" ... but light years away from what you can get with LASS ! I don't own LASS because i can't get to enjoy the sound, but i've heard/watched many demos using it. 
- The brass are ok (i love the trumpets !) but definitely lack "punch" even at high velocities ... "punch" you don't even find in Spitfire's Brass : only in MA1  ; but quite a number of interesting articulations though. 
- I really DON'T like the WoodWinds (i sold them back) !

@skythemusic : MA2 is definitely dryer than MA1 ... or, being on the _piano _side of interpretation, maybe it's just that the hall doesn't "ring" as much !
Here is a piece i made using only instruments from MA2 :



@moosethree : i didn't buy OT Inspire, but from the demos i'd say it's very useful to sketch on the go, but will lack velocity layers / mics postions / separate instruments if you want to go into details.

Obviously, this is only my opinion(s) given here in order to help, not to impose anything


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## jononotbono (Aug 9, 2017)

It's an amazing library. Sounds Fantastic. My favourite thing about it are the Choirs. Do you need it? I haven't got a clue.


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## will_m (Aug 9, 2017)

I made a previous thread asking whether Ark I would be worth getting as I had all the Albions + LASS. 

I ended up getting it and have no regrets, it sounds awesome and is the only library I own that has that full force fff sound which works so well for epic and trailer music. I'm not a huge fan of the shorts in it but when blended with a dry library like LASS its great. 

The choir in it is also well worth having and I sometimes use the percussion and guitar patches.


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## Musicam (Aug 9, 2017)

I am thinking to buy Ark 1 and 2 but its much money. I need thoughts.


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## dcoscina (Aug 9, 2017)

Ark 1 is an essential part of my set up. I use Ark 2 a fair bit as well but not as much as Ark 1. I love the quiet choral stuff from 2 however


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Aug 9, 2017)

I have Ark I and a patchy few libraries that are in SSO; they are different kettles of fish, if you want that extra bite as others have said, then this is something that will suit you! I would like Ark II though, certainly.


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## Ron Kords (Aug 10, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> It's an amazing library. Sounds Fantastic. My favourite thing about it are the Choirs. Do you need it? I haven't got a clue.


Yeh, but do I need it though??


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## col (Aug 10, 2017)

Choir and Brass MA1 - yep best thing about it. Strings patches can be hard to work with though. High legatos need
micro cc tweaking. Lows are all the lows in one patch - Bass cello viola. So really thick in the mid range. 
Is a good complimentary library but maybe not the best all rounder.


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## jononotbono (Aug 10, 2017)

Ron Kords said:


> Yeh, but do I need it though??



No comment.


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## sostenuto (Aug 10, 2017)

col said:


> Choir and Brass MA1 - yep best thing about it. Strings patches can be hard to work with though. High legatos need
> micro cc tweaking. Lows are all the lows in one patch - Bass cello viola. So really thick in the mid range.
> Is a good complimentary library but maybe not the best all rounder.



Appreciate your experience/detail. Main attraction right now is having purchased BO_Inspire. 
Not 'unhappy', just feel need for M Ark(s) and costly move __ even with discount Codes, over usd 1,200. right now for both 1/2 .....

THX


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## dpasdernick (Aug 10, 2017)

*Do I need Metropolis Ark?*

Yes.


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## Vastman (Aug 11, 2017)

dpasdernick said:


> *Do I need Metropolis Ark?*
> 
> Yes.



No time to read the thread but I agree... if you can afford it, get it! If you really don't need it, have the money set aside for BF when OT will hopefully repeate their rare "deal" offering Ark 1/2 at intro prices for the weekend...

but short answer is... YES!!!!


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## VinRice (Aug 12, 2017)

Just bought it and started using it on a cue. First thoughts:

Strings - hmmm. They used some ungodly number of players apparently and I can believe it. I think half of them might have been from a local school or something. Notes take a long time to sound and I can hear a lot of "noises off" in the background - chairs, dropped bows etc. Weird but charming I guess. The High strings is not a particularly pleasant sound but the Low strings are suitably thunderous, but again slow to start and slow to stop. These are hard to integrate and they didn't make the cue. (I'm actually finding the Traditional Strings from NOVO to be perfect for runs and ostinatos (ostinati, ostinata?). Sharp and clear - complete opposite of the MA1 string spicc's.)

Woodwinds - Only Bassoons and CBassoons but very clear beautiful (forte) sounds. I guess you need Ark 2 for the rest of the woods.

Brass - Yes! Fantastic full brass section. Only two dynamic levels (loud, bloody loud) and they are using a hi-pass on the dynamics as well, but these work a treat.

Choirs - again somewhat limited but the sound, and singing, is fantastic and these will work anywhere.

8- String Guitar - utterly useless. Recording a guitar on a massive scoring stage makes zero sense. The sound is completely indistinct and just disappears into mush as soon as there is any other instrumentation. Pointless. There are so much better guitar libraries out there. I replaced this in the cue with 8-String Uproar RAW - perfect.

Bass guitar - different story. This actually works well as it is DI'd and close mic'd. Very usable.

Drum Kit - small but works fine. Big sound when you get the mic mix right.

Percussion - A small number of usable hits and booms. No trad percussion as such.

Conclusion: The library will get used. Woods, Brass, Choirs, Bass Guitar, Drum Kit, are all perfectly useable.The strings are going to have to fight for a place in anything and the guitar is just dumb. Frankly though I resent the pricing. I think this library is about $150 more than it should be compared to other products, and I'm not one who frets about cost too much. I just think this is too expensive. I would like Ark 2 but it would leave a bad taste at the moment.


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## sostenuto (Aug 12, 2017)

VinRice said:


> Just bought it and started using it on a cue. First thoughts:
> 
> Strings - hmmm. They used some ungodly number of players apparently and I can believe it. I think half of them might have been from a local school or something. Notes take a long time to sound and I can hear a lot of "noises off" in the background - chairs, dropped bows etc. Weird but charming I guess. The High strings is not a particularly pleasant sound but the Low strings are suitably thunderous, but again slow to start and slow to stop. These are hard to integrate and they didn't make the cue. (I'm actually finding the Traditional Strings from NOVO to be perfect for runs and ostinatos (ostinati, ostinata?). Sharp and clear - complete opposite of the MA1 string spicc's.)
> 
> ...



One of most detailed, relevant reviews to help my upcoming choices !!  
Main OT stimulus _here_ is decision to go with BO_Inspire at Intro. Next steps can be staged easily and Blk Fri is one likely time, especially given current euro/usd xchg rate  

Appreciate your candid review comments !!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 12, 2017)

I think of Ark as an auxiliary library to add larger-than-life weight. It's very good at that.


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## sostenuto (Aug 12, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I think of Ark as an auxiliary library to add weight. It's very good at that.



BOTH Ark(s) (added weight) ? Some have 'characterized' M Ark(s) as potential 'bookends' for BO_Inspire .....
I remain unsure.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 12, 2017)

You're right, I'm talking about the original one only.

It has things like Fartmunster contrabassoons, Grüelich shouting choirs (I'm making up the names), Pütsonfeier guitars, whatever. They're all big-ass sounds.

I mean, where else are you going to get an ensemble of contrabassoons? The cases for those things are the size of a Fender Rhodes! And they sound glorious.


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## sostenuto (Aug 12, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> You're right, I'm talking about the original one only.
> 
> It has things like Fartmunster contrabassoons, Grüelich shouting choirs (I'm making up the names), Pütsonfeier guitars, whatever. They're all big-ass sounds.
> 
> I mean, where else are you going to get an ensemble of contrabassoons? The cases for those things are the size of a Fender Rhodes! And they sound glorious.



Got it ! THX for clarifying. Those Fartmunster Contra Bassoons alone make Ark 1 worth it ...


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## Breaker (Aug 14, 2017)

VinRice said:


> Just bought it and started using it on a cue. First thoughts:
> 
> 8- String Guitar - utterly useless. Recording a guitar on a massive scoring stage makes zero sense. The sound is completely indistinct and just disappears into mush as soon as there is any other instrumentation. Pointless. There are so much better guitar libraries out there. I replaced this in the cue with 8-String Uproar RAW - perfect.



I guess the idea of the guitars is just to bring a little bit different texture to the wall of sound this library is supposed to build.
But what about the DI's and the spot mics for the guitars? I managed to get a sound out of them that will cut through the mix and could be somewhat usable in other context as well.

I totally agree that 8-String Uproar RAW sounds much better in more traditional guitar setting though. If they only would have sampled a octave or two more...


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## VinRice (Aug 14, 2017)

Breaker said:


> I guess the idea of the guitars is just to bring a little bit different texture to the wall of sound this library is supposed to build.
> But what about the DI's and the spot mics for the guitars? I managed to get a sound out of them that will cut through the mix and could be somewhat usable in other context as well.
> 
> I totally agree that 8-String Uproar RAW sounds much better in more traditional guitar setting though. If they only would have sampled a octave or two more...



I know why they did it, unfortunately it just sounds horrible. YMMV


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## novaburst (Aug 14, 2017)

While the do I need Ark is a great idea remember you need to get an epic attitude in your composition, once you get that your 99% there and you will most likely get away with just using Spitfire.

When the vibe is there in you music the listener hardly hears whats being used to create it, a great epic composition always shadows what library's being used, 

Take Blakus for instance it wasn't what he used it's what was written and his attitude to his compositions,


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## Parsifal666 (May 22, 2018)

Mike Fox said:


> There just seems to be a nasty midrange frequency spike with Iceni. I mostly notice it with the strings when compared to my other libs. Maybe It's just me? There definitely is something raw about the overall sound of the library that I really do enjoy though!



Iceni can be used to epic effect, very much so imo. One thing I think Iceni has over Ark 1 are the shorts for each instrument. You can do excellent shorts with Ark 1, but if you want something about as ugly, nasty, and bow-scraping as Death Metal then mess with those Iceni patches (if you need more blur, add the _*tiniest*_ shade of Ohmicide).

Ark 1 has revealed itself as quite the coup since I picked it up last month. You can do a whole mock up with just that (though I add other dry libraries, just keep them further back in the mix). The choirs, brass, strings...all are great imo, so easy to "King of Kings" out on.

Before you open Ark 1 again:


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