# Convolution reverb plugin - what to buy?



## SimonViklund (Feb 13, 2018)

I'm thinking about getting a convolution reverb in order to:

A) Sweeten my mixes (and add realistic room reverb to dry sample libraries such as those from Musical Sampling)
B) Every once in a while, add room reverb to diegetic sound effects (so it wouldn't hurt if the plugin comes with some non-concert hall room/cooridor impulses)

The options, as I see it, are EW/QL Spaces, Waves IR-1 and of course Altiverb. Altiverb is the most expensive but it also comes with a very impressive range of impulses from famous halls AND a lot of "domestic spaces" (bathrooms, offices, stairways, etc.) which will be useful to me.

Questions:

1) *Is Altiverb ever on sale?*
2) *Which convolution reverb do you own and like, or which one would you buy and why?* (it doesn't have to be one of the three mentioned above, of course)


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## jononotbono (Feb 13, 2018)

SimonViklund said:


> 1) *Is Altiverb ever on sale?*



Never seen it on sale.



SimonViklund said:


> 2) *Which convolution reverb do you own and like*



Altiverb 7. I love it. Also own EW Spaces and that's good too.


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## MarcelM (Feb 13, 2018)

seventh heaven by liquidsonics beats all other imho. you can demo it if you have an ilok key. its better than reverberate 2 from them and its newer.


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## MarcelM (Feb 13, 2018)

hodshonf said:


> reverberate 2
> 
> https://www.liquidsonics.com/software/reverberate-2/
> 
> ...



reverberate 2 offers its own m7 fusion impules btw. in case you didnt know. you can download them for free and they are a bit better than the free ones offered.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Feb 13, 2018)

For pure tweaking power Reverberate 2 is hard to beat. It comes with some pretty good impulses, but nothing with multiple positions like in Altiverb or Spaces. But it'll load up almost any free IR you can find on the internet - and allow you to tweak reverb length, modulation and a bunch of other stuff. Numerical Sound also sells packs of IRs specifically designed to position instruments in orchestral halls. They a great match for Reverberate - but AFAIK they are synthesized as opposed to "real" recordings.

If you need specific positioning IRs sampled from real spaces, Altiverb or Spaces might be the best bet.


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## Niah2 (Feb 13, 2018)

I use the free impulses from samplicity Briscati in kontakt.


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## Rob (Feb 13, 2018)

I have and use a lot the IR-1 by waves. On waves site you can download a great library of irs from different spaces... this is my favorite convo reverb and it’s on sale at audiodeluxe for 29 bucks which is a steal


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## driscollmusick (Feb 13, 2018)

Try VSS3 (free for 2 weeks)


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## Sami (Feb 13, 2018)

Spaces never disappoints. Also, if you use Logic, Space Designer is a must-try.


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## MarcelM (Feb 13, 2018)

driscollmusick said:


> Try VSS3 (free for 2 weeks)



if you like vss3 better try vsr s24 from relab. beats vss3 easy 
best vst plugin reverb out there atm, and i have tried alot. 
30 days free demo available


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Feb 13, 2018)

Altiverb is never on sale. Nothing beats it for convolution. I'd suggest starting with Spaces if you can't afford Altiverb and then also get some of the cheaper reverbs like the basic Seventh Heaven and Valhalla. None of these, however, will give you domestic spaces. Perhaps you could find a free convolution plugin and then some free IRs for that.


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## ironbut (Feb 13, 2018)

I've got a few but Reverberate and Seventh Heaven are my go to's. Seventh has an easy to use preset system while Reverberate is infinitely tweakable but I kind of hate their file system.
It's hard to pass up IR-1 from Waves since it does have multi positions for some of the halls and I also picked it up for $29 a while back.
Sometimes I'll set up those different seating positions on different sends.


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## driscollmusick (Feb 13, 2018)

Heroix said:


> if you like vss3 better try vsr s24 from relab. beats vss3 easy
> best vst plugin reverb out there atm, and i have tried alot.
> 30 days free demo available


OK, giving it a go!


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## N.Caffrey (Feb 13, 2018)

wasn't there some talking a while ago about QL Spaces 2? I think Doug mentioned it in a comment.


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## calebfaith (Feb 13, 2018)

N.Caffrey said:


> wasn't there some talking a while ago about QL Spaces 2? I think Doug mentioned it in a comment.



I love QL Spaces so I'm really looking forward to an update.


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## N.Caffrey (Feb 13, 2018)

calebfaith said:


> I love QL Spaces so I'm really looking forward to an update.


me too! I dowloaded the demo of UAD Lexicon, which I liked, but I think there's more material to work from with Spaces.


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## Josh Richman (Feb 13, 2018)

Spaces 2 is an instant buy. Can’t wait.


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## Øivind (Feb 13, 2018)

+1 for Seventh Heaven (both regular and pro version)
+1 for valhalla room


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## jvsax (Feb 13, 2018)

I use REVerence (which is included with Cubase Pro) with the Bricasti and 960L quad impulse responses.


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## N.Caffrey (Feb 13, 2018)

Josh Richman said:


> Spaces 2 is an instant buy. Can’t wait.


Any ideas how Spaces 2 could be? So curious!


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## noisyblocks (Feb 13, 2018)

Heroix said:


> seventh heaven by liquidsonics beats all other imho. you can demo it if you have an ilok key. its better than reverberate 2 from them and its newer.



I can't tell if 7th Heaven does everything that Reverberate 2 does What I particularly like about Reverberate 2 is simultaneous 2x stereo IRs and LFO's for controlling panning/balance.

Anyone know of other convo/non-convo reverbs that offer LFO or other controls over the reverb? (I used to think FabFilter pro-R was one to get but now it seems rather 1-dimensional...)


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## MarcelM (Feb 13, 2018)

hodshonf said:


> are they noticeably different?
> 
> will download and try tonight.
> 
> ...



yes they are. seventh heaven is closest to an m7 you can get with a plugin and vsr s24 is the best algo reverb i have heard so far.

seventh heaven uses a new fusion engine and does also a better job than reverberate 2 did.

you wont be disapointed


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## MarcelM (Feb 13, 2018)

noisyblocks said:


> I can't tell if 7th Heaven does everything that Reverberate 2 does What I particularly like about Reverberate 2 is simultaneous 2x stereo IRs and LFO's for controlling panning/balance.
> 
> Anyone know of other convo/non-convo reverbs that offer LFO or other controls over the reverb? (I used to think FabFilter pro-R was one to get but now it seems rather 1-dimensional...)



if you like reverberate 2 - you will love seventh heaven. try the demo and take a listen. it sounds quite alot better to my ears.


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## X-Bassist (Feb 13, 2018)

I own reverberate 2 and demo'ed Seventh Heaven, but still like Spaces, Altiverb, the PCM reverb bundle better. SH didn't have the natural room qualities of the M7 (a little too synthetic sounding) which is why I would have bought it. The PCM reverb is the closest I can find to my Lexicon hardware (which still kicks a**)- and that includes the LX480. I just like saving reverb with the session.


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## Leon Portelance (Feb 13, 2018)

I use Altiverb as my main reverb, I also have QL Spaces, Waves H-Reverb, IR1 and Abbey Road Plates. I think I am covered.


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## bly (Feb 13, 2018)

I started off with QL Spaces but in recent projects have been trying out the UAD Lexicon 224 and Lexicon PCM Large Hall for my orchestral tail 'glue', which I really like but, in my opinion, gives it a very different colour and flavour. 

I've always liked the sound of the TC Electronic VSS 3 verbs but have never owned a hardware version- am going to try out Relab's VSR24, which from the demos I've heard on youtube, are really stunning:




Do check out the video by Spitfire:
 
They demo quite a few different verbs as well, including aforementioned Lexicon PCM Native, TC Electronic VSS3 Plug-ins etc. 

Of course it has to be mentioned, if you can afford it, to try out the hardware versions as well (Lexicon PCM 92 and TC Electronic Reverb 400/TC Electronic M3000), this video shows a great use of the PCM92: 



Hope that helps!


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## musicalweather (Feb 13, 2018)

I have to pipe in with a vote for SIR2. Very transparent and works very well for orchestral instruments. Digital Performer's ProVerb is also excellent.


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## CGR (Feb 13, 2018)

Any love for FOG convolver by Audio Thing? I use it and find it highly tweak-able:
https://www.audiothing.net/effects/fog-convolver/


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## Robo Rivard (Feb 13, 2018)

musicalweather said:


> I have to pipe in with a vote for SIR2. Very transparent and works very well for orchestral instruments. Digital Performer's ProVerb is also excellent.


Yes, SIR2 (64bits) has been my friend for quite a long time. It would be nice to see a serious benchmark comparing all IR products. But right now, I'm personally more involved into comparing my Valhalla collection with Breeze 2... and I like what I hear! I'm very ambiguous between IR and algorithm.


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## sostenuto (Feb 13, 2018)

hodshonf said:


> i recently got Breeze 2 for a steal.
> 
> great sounding reverb.
> 
> ...



Seriously reviewing Demo !! Is Breeze 2 available now for purchase?


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## Robo Rivard (Feb 13, 2018)

A question for everyone: what do you think of the IR Reverb module in Kontakt 5?... Should we use it?... Should we turn it OFF?... Do you systematically use outboard reverbs?...


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## sostenuto (Feb 13, 2018)

hodshonf said:


> looks like it.
> 
> http://www.2caudio.com/products/breeze#_Breeze2
> 
> ...



Thank-you ! My oversight … seeing earlier 'Pre-release page. Looks well worth exploring.


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## brek (Feb 13, 2018)

REVerence with the Burcasti Vienna Hall IR. Finally got something I can just slather on all my instruments when using the close mics and not feel like I'm missing something. 

Would spending $30 on Waves IR-1 bring anything new to the table?


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## Robo Rivard (Feb 13, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Thank-you ! My oversight … seeing earlier 'Pre-release page. Looks well worth exploring.


I bought the pre-released version when it got out around Christmas time, and I already got a free update. I didn't know what to expect, since I already owned algorithmic reverbs like Valhalla's, but I'm pretty impressed so far.

The past few weeks, I've been trying to make multis in Kontak 5 out of my favorite old libraries (AKAI days), that were mainly close miked. I never got good results at resurrecting them with IR reverbs. OK, it was suggesting a realistic place, but the sound was always lifeless. In comparison, dialing in any preset from Breeze 2, everything got a brand new life, in a brand new space. I can really feel "the air" around the instrument.


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## noisyblocks (Feb 14, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> A question for everyone: what do you think of the IR Reverb module in Kontakt 5?... Should we use it?... Should we turn it OFF?... Do you systematically use outboard reverbs?...



I've used it to great effect, though not for *actual* reverb...more for FX and such. I still think Logic's Space Designer convolution is very good and use it often.


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## noisyblocks (Feb 14, 2018)

Heroix said:


> if you like reverberate 2 - you will love seventh heaven. try the demo and take a listen. it sounds quite alot better to my ears.



I watched video demos for both but I'm not seeing the same functionality shared between them. Despite R2's cluttered UI, it seems to have more controls than I can find in even SH Professional.

The LFO knob top-left, and control over IR1/IR2 are pretty interesting (I'm more interested in unusual verbs than room emulation for orch). I'll probably download the SH demo but just wondered about basically functionality--I can't find any mention of these on their product page for SH (just regular mixing/tail stuff).


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## Andrew Souter (Feb 14, 2018)

Hi Guys,

A user in this thread asked me a question via email regarding Early Reflection & Late Reflection balance in Breeze 2, how this compares to Aether, and how it can be used for stage positioning as it applies to VI scoring instruments... 

Since I see various other posts here about Breeze 2, i'll post my full answer here below in case it's helpful...



> Regarding ER/LR balance in Breeze: there is not technically any way to
> completely remove the ER's from Breeze as there is with Aether. However,
> there are ways to minimize the perception of the ERs so much that there
> electively becomes no ERs and the tail simply starts at full density.
> ...


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## Andrew Souter (Feb 14, 2018)

hodshonf said:


> Thanks for that Andrew.
> 
> I think BALANCE is the Magical Knob i was looking for in Breeze 2 for dialing in ERs on individual channels.
> 
> ...



If you intend to use another instance of Breeze 2 on sends to supply a global tail for a bunch of instruments, there is almost no reason to do so, IF (!!!) the tail you intend to use matches the general size/type of the instances you are using for ERs. The reason is simply, you won't save any CPU usage to do so, and if you load multiple instances of the same preset for each instrument, each instance of the same preset will be ever so slightly different which will add even more realism -- just as every performer seat in the violin section would give a different resulting IR at some fixed mic position on a real stage.

The only thing you should be aware of is that you should try to do panning PRE-Breeze if you are using it on an insert. This means the DAW should support post-fader, post-pan, inserts. If it does not, then you should try to do panning with some 3rd party plug inserted before Breeze. Basically you don't want to pan the tail if you want to be completely natural.

And of course if you want to have a completely different tail paired with shorter "ER-type" presets, (say for example you want some huge special FX cinematic effect to use occasionally for some dramatic hits/impacts) then of course you can put another completely different Breeze instance (or Aether or B2) on a send and share it among multiple tracks, sure. 



hodshonf said:


> Not convolution as per the OP, but great info nonetheless.



Some modes of Breeze 2 (chamber, plate, and colored) can get so dense that there is really very little distinction between it and convolution at this point actually. Basically we have all the benefits of convolution, but we retain all the benefits of being purely algorithmic as well.


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## shomynik (Feb 14, 2018)

noisyblocks said:


> I watched video demos for both but I'm not seeing the same functionality shared between them. Despite R2's cluttered UI, it seems to have more controls than I can find in even SH Professional.
> 
> The LFO knob top-left, and control over IR1/IR2 are pretty interesting (I'm more interested in unusual verbs than room emulation for orch). I'll probably download the SH demo but just wondered about basically functionality--I can't find any mention of these on their product page for SH (just regular mixing/tail stuff).



There quite a few editing possibilities in SH Pro, look it up. But the best thing about SH are new M7 IRs which are made specifically for the SH. ERs and tails are separated, as well as low freq signal. Plus multiple impulses of the same m7 preset but with different tail durations. Gold!


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## Rob (Feb 14, 2018)

brek said:


> ...
> Would spending $30 on Waves IR-1 bring anything new to the table?


I think so... it has many ways to modify and taylor the impulses. Change its start point. length, amplitude envelope, room’s dimension, L/R decorrelation, compensate latency, separate levels for direct signal/er/tail, early refl. buildup, 4 bands eq, huge library of IRs, both true stereo and stereo, and of course ability to import external irs... I have no relation to Waves by the way, not trying to sell the product, I honestly think it’s a high quality convo reverb and a bargain at this price


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## Rob (Feb 15, 2018)

hodshonf said:


> haven't seen mention of this as an Altiverb alternative,
> 
> https://hofa-plugins.de/en/plugins/iq-reverb/
> 
> anyone?



got it, still like the IR1 better...


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## blougui (Feb 15, 2018)

Liquidsonics 7H pro is really tasty. Not as much to tweak than in other Liquidsonics offers but it's about the (natural) sound. If one is after unreal tails, may be there's better than this.


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## noisyblocks (Feb 15, 2018)

Waves offers very good deals but be warned that some of their plugins are buggy, and they don't seem concerned with fixing them.


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## N.Caffrey (Feb 15, 2018)

I download a demo of most of the ones mentioned (last ones VSR S24 and VSS3). I gotta be honest. I have Spaces, and it just seem more complete. Like I have no real reason to buy one of these already having Spaces. The one I enjoyed for a bit was the Lexicon by UA.


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## gsilbers (Feb 15, 2018)

SimonViklund said:


> I'm thinking about getting a convolution reverb in order to:
> 
> A) Sweeten my mixes (and add realistic room reverb to dry sample libraries such as those from Musical Sampling)
> B) Every once in a while, add room reverb to diegetic sound effects (so it wouldn't hurt if the plugin comes with some non-concert hall room/cooridor impulses)
> ...




the secret to convolution reverb is the IRs. the engines work similarly but some add bells and whistles like extra algo verb, eq etc. 
I recently finally downloaded the Irs for waves IR-L and its pretty good. for $30 bucks its a good deal. 

your daw might already have a convo reverb. in that case you can get 3rd party IRs. 


also, if you are using kontakt, the onboard IR for the convo insert are very underated. they sound execelnt.


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## noisyblocks (Feb 17, 2018)

While I don't think Seventh Heaven is necessarily the reverb for everyone (less experimental, more practical), if you had any lingering doubts here's a glowing review of it that goes into some depth:
http://en.audiofanzine.com/convolut...editorial/reviews/the-reverb-from-heaven.html


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## Britpack50 (Feb 17, 2018)

Heroix said:


> seventh heaven by liquidsonics beats all other imho. you can demo it if you have an ilok key. its better than reverberate 2 from them and its newer.


agreed. I demo'd it and sold my hardware Bricasti. there were slight tonal differences, but I could easily put that down to a run doc DA/AD conversion, but otherwise it was 98% there, and you can have multiple instances. Not a CPU hog either to my surprise.


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## Britpack50 (Feb 17, 2018)

OK, just went to hear the 2CAudio apps....OMG (to coin a millennial phrase). Great deal on the whole lot for $499


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## mventura (Feb 17, 2018)

hodshonf said:


> After some demos
> With the Breeze 2 Blend function i can balance the ER and LRs easily.



I also am liking Breeze 2 but there is no manual yet. Can you explain how you balance the ER and LRs? I don't see a "blend" function. Thx.


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## mventura (Feb 17, 2018)

hodshonf said:


> the BLEND is a 2nd control of the MIX knob.



I see 'Balance' but not 'Blend'. That what you mean?


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## satYatunes (Feb 18, 2018)

MConvolutionMB from Melda is also a pretty good convolution reverb with lot of parameters to tweak.


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## Andrew Souter (Feb 18, 2018)

mventura said:


> I also am liking Breeze 2 but there is no manual yet. Can you explain how you balance the ER and LRs? I don't see a "blend" function. Thx.



Hi,

I'm trying to finish the manual in the next few days, meanwhile, please see these posts back a page:

https://vi-control.net/community/th...-plugin-what-to-buy.68984/page-2#post-4190531

https://vi-control.net/community/th...-plugin-what-to-buy.68984/page-2#post-4190519

Also see here, where I gave an example:

https://vi-control.net/community/th...r-your-reverb-setup.62046/page-2#post-4191290

https://vi-control.net/community/th...r-your-reverb-setup.62046/page-2#post-4191403


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 18, 2018)

Andrew Souter said:


> The only thing you should be aware of is that you should try to do panning PRE-Breeze if you are using it on an insert. This means the DAW should support post-fader, post-pan, inserts. If it does not, then you should try to do panning with some 3rd party plug inserted before Breeze. Basically you don't want to pan the tail if you want to be completely natural.



i've had great success using MIRx for stage placement, but DRY - followed by Breeze 2 on each channel as you suggested.

sold.


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## Daniel James (Feb 18, 2018)

Altiverb is the obvious goto. I remember back in the day I would also use Reflektor in Guitar Rig 5. You can import your own impulses into that 

-DJ


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