# Advice for working with a client



## jonathanwright (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm in need of some advice.

I've recently taken on my first paid work (yay!) writing the music to a five minute movie trailer.

I'm getting on very well with the director but have come across a few issues and want to check if they are normal occurrences or just the usual variations you get with clients.

I write the score to the trailer to her specifications, she says it's great, then she goes away to her video guy and the trailer gets changed. So writing to the video edits is an ever moving process.

She'll listen to the new score, thinks its amazing, then comes back a couple of days later with some changes. The changes I expect, but in most cases we're talking about a complete turnaround in what the music has to say. For example an entire two minute section changed from being 'sinister and scary' to 'wonderful and happy'. So in essence, starting from scratch. This has happened several times, always with a two day deadline to produce the new finished track.

I've spoken to her about this and she says when I write a new version of the score, it gives her so many more ideas she wants to change things.

I guess I was expecting the director to have a clear, fixed vision of what they wanted to say with the music and to be able to work with that.

I think part of the problem is that she doesn't have a deadline, so has the luxury of changing her mind. Also she listens and listens to the score until she's probably a bit bored of it so thinks it needs changing.

I expect the deadlines, changes, and alteration, but didn't expect the goalposts to be moved quite so drastically.

Is this something I need to get used to, and plan for?


----------



## RiffWraith (Nov 6, 2012)

Hi

Editorial changes to film and trailers is normal, and the composer is expected to roll with the changes. However, going from one extreme to the next, as in first being 'sinister and scary' and then 'wonderful and happy', and the director not having a clear cut vision and being completely influenced by the score, is not normal. _Unless_ it is some young, inexperienced, new to the game, director wanna-be, who does not yet know what they are doing. Then it _is_ normal.

Best of luck.


----------



## jonathanwright (Nov 6, 2012)

Thanks for the reply RiffWraith.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. She's got quite a bit of experience in the industry but this is her first time out on her own - which is probably the reason.

Do you think I should just roll with it, or be a little more vocal about the amount of changes?


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 6, 2012)

Don't roll with it, or she'll keep doing this to others. And you should mention that your time is not unlimited.


----------



## RiffWraith (Nov 6, 2012)

jonathanwright @ Tue Nov 06 said:


> She's got quite a bit of experience in the industry but this is her first time out on her own - which is probably the reason.



Yep - could be a lack of confidence on her part.

Should you be more vocal about the amount of changes? How so? 

"You're an idiot! Why can't you make up your godamn mind already?!?!"

"Oh my god - you made_ that _change? What's wrong with you? Where did you learn how to cut? The garment industry???"

:lol:

Just roll with it. It's actually your job to - even if the demands are unreasonable. Remember - you are not an A-list composer. Well, not yet. 

At least you are getting paid. If you weren't - then maybe this would not be worth it. But at the end of the day, you will have some money in your pocket, and as well, a good learning experience.

Cheeers.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 6, 2012)

And the director will find another composer to do the same thing to, etc, etc. It's never too early to grow some.


----------



## JohnG (Nov 6, 2012)

If it's that drastic, it can work to cut in existing music instead of constantly creating new stuff. In other words, create your own temp score and then ask her whether that's what she wants. When it settles down then go back and compose according to the agreed plan.

Making your own temp track can save a lot of work. Just be careful to use material that you can emulate on electronics with some success.


----------



## jonathanwright (Nov 6, 2012)

A lot of interesting points, thanks for the advice guys.

I'm getting paid, but not much, about half what I would normally charge (she knows this), mainly to get a foot in the door.

I also think a limit on the re-writes is probably an idea, certainly in this case where she has no deadline herself.

My fear is that I'll still be doing re-writes in six months time!


----------



## Mike Greene (Nov 6, 2012)

JohnG @ Tue Nov 06 said:


> If it's that drastic, it can work to cut in existing music instead of constantly creating new stuff. In other words, create your own temp score and then ask her whether that's what she wants. When it settles down then go back and compose according to the agreed plan.
> 
> Making your own temp track can save a lot of work. Just be careful to use material that you can emulate on electronics with some success.


This.


----------



## gsilbers (Nov 6, 2012)

doesnt this sort of stuff written on contracts?

deadlines or money can be very persuasive factors. 
and deadline you said it moves sooo....

now that you know, next time u get another gig with whomever just FYI them. 

they way a person knows. comunication might be the biggest issue. director might think a composer will dig all the changes and likes to follow the creative flow etc. which is true up to the extent of one change


----------



## rickholets (Nov 6, 2012)

Should you roll with endless changes? That depends. How much are you being paid?


----------



## Rctec (Nov 6, 2012)

Just a quick thought...Why are you not all meeting together - with the video editor, who's obviously got a few ideas and a point of view. What's yours? ...And if you took the element of short deadlines out, isn't this really about exploring ideas and possibilities? That's part of the job. If you work with directors that tell you what to do, you're just a musical secretary (Elmer B. taught me that). you want to be a voice in the storytelling. You need to use your talents to think about the dramatic arch of the thing. So, safe me from the directors who have a fixed oppinion and give me the explorers any day! But you got to get everyone into the same room before you can get them on to the same page.
Good Luck,
-H-


----------



## kid-surf (Nov 6, 2012)

Tell her to call me, seriously. She needs to be ripped a new asshole. She clearly has no fukking clue what she's doing and should be slapped upside the head. Her actions are totally unprofessional. This is in no way normal for a "seasoned pro" or plain, anyone with a VISION/POV/VOICE which should have been mapped looooong BEFORE she shot the fukking thing.

Get a clue, lady...

Send her my note. 

I would tell her to "lock" her fucking vision, then come back to you once she's figured out what the fukk it is. That, or pay you more.

This sort of sh!t pisses me off, she doesn't deserve to direct ANYTHING...yet. Learn how each department works before you scurry of to make a movie, good grief.

Clearly I'm on your side... 8)


----------



## jleckie (Nov 6, 2012)

What Ned said. Think of your Peers.


----------



## Arbee (Nov 6, 2012)

Rctec @ Wed Nov 07 said:


> But you got to get everyone into the same room before you can get them on to the same page.


+1 that is so true of everything, and it is something that is so often overlooked!


----------



## jonathanwright (Nov 7, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies guys, all of it worth digesting.

 

The initial contract we agreed had a deadline of 2 weeks, just at the end of the deadline I was told it would be extended, with no specific finish date. So a project which had a definite end the became more open ended.

I've certainly worked far beyond the money I'm being paid, however it's invaluable experience and I'm happy to go with the flow.

I guess I should learn to be more rigid with contract, if I'd taken on another project just as this one was initially due to finish I'd be stuffed!


----------



## JohnG (Nov 7, 2012)

There's only one reason to do a job like this, and it's to build a relationship with the team. The best way to do that if you are running into creative differences (and even if you're not), is to spend a lot of time with them in the same room, if possible with your rig and showing them different ideas. If you can't get them to come to you, try going to them.



jonathanwright @ 7th November 2012 said:


> I guess I should learn to be more rigid with contract



Trying to stand too hard on your contractual terms defeats the reason to do the project in the first place, which is to create a working relationship. It's not nutty to allude to the fact that you're going above and beyond, but it's commonplace in our industry to go above and beyond.

Communicate verbally and if that fails, play musical examples from other scores to try to narrow the field so you at least get close before you re-write for the third or fourth time. Even if it's their fault on the poor communications, commonly the composer gets blamed for "just not getting it." This is much less likely if you are spending time together.


----------



## impressions (Nov 8, 2012)

since when trailers are 5 minutes?? i thought the maximum was 2:30 minutes tops.


----------

