# NI Komplete 12



## Reid Rosefelt

Based on previous years, it's likely that Komplete 12 will come out by August or September of this year.

So far, the upgrade will probably include Thrill, Strummed Acoustic 2, Symphony Essentials Percussion, Kinetic Toys, and the new ModPack Effects released today.
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/new-modpack-effect-series-from-native-instruments.68705/

It's interesting that two of the recent additions to the NI product line (Kinetic Toys and the Modpack effects) are expansions from their Christmas gifts. 

I expect they will add a thing or two over the coming months, and maybe there will be an upgrade to Kontakt, Reaktor, Guitar Rig, and maybe a new version of one of their existing synths. What's missing is a new synth, so that's what I expect. But you never know. 

I do think they need to sweeten this a bit more to get people to upgrade.

What do you think? Are you planning to upgrade?


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## blougui

Not sure Thrill will be part of Komplete, if I remember correctly.


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## tav.one

Kontakt 6 will warrant an upgrade for most


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## Reid Rosefelt

blougui said:


> Not sure Thrill will be part of Komplete, if I remember correctly.


I didn't know that. If that's true, that makes an upgrade to Komplete 12 even less desirable.


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## YaniDee

Have to wait and see (most probably, esp when the 50% off appears)...Where is this info, specifically regarding Thrill coming from?, he politely asks..


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## JC_

I think they'll include Thrill in the next Komplete Ult considering all of the other instruments they have made with Galaxy Instruments have been added in the past (Una Corda, The Giant etc.).

I'm personally hoping for another addition to the Session Guitarist series and maybe an upgrade to Guitar Rig.


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## Geoff Grace

I usually upgrade every other version as a matter of course. I buy the even ones, so I'm likely to upgrade to 12 once the price comes down. 

Best,

Geoff


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## YaniDee

Since this is wishful thinking, lets add Sonuscore The Orchestra to the list! ( As Action Strings, Emotive Strings, Action Strikes, etc are in KU11)


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## Reid Rosefelt

Komplete Ultimate currently means all the products that NI sells, with the exception of the full Symphony series.
So far that's the only thing that hasn't been included from their product line, that I'm aware of. 

I don't think it's an issue of what company makes the instruments, but whether NI sells them or not. I think that any product they have added to their line since the release of 11 is a likely prospect for 12. 

As Thrill is an NI product, it's not wishful thinking to think it will likely be in Ultimate 12. If somebody has a statement from NI that it definitely won't, it would be good to post it here. I'm sure a lot of people who are interested in Thrill are (like myself) holding out to see what will be included in 12.


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## Mystic

They won't be releasing Kontakt 6 with Komplete 12. Even if it was going to come out (from all accounts, it's not close), they would want to bank on people upgrading that on it's own much like they did with Reaktor then include it in a Komplete update the following year. The people who need it or want it right away will be willing to pay the higher upgrade price for the standalone plugin and possibly also get a lot of the same people upgrading to the new Komplete the following year for whatever else that will include.


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## blougui

Well, then I didn’t remember correctly


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## Alex Fraser

Or...
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/ni-hints-at-upcoming-subscription-model.68719/


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## YaniDee

TigerTheFrog said:


> As Thrill is an NI product, it's not wishful thinking to think it will likely be in Ultimate 12


Good to know..


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## GtrString

Im still on Komplete 9, and will only upgrade if Kontakt 6 is part of the package


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## Vovique

JC_ said:


> I think they'll include Thrill in the next Komplete Ult considering all of the other instruments they have made with Galaxy Instruments have been added in the past (Una Corda, The Giant etc.).
> 
> I'm personally hoping for another addition to the Session Guitarist series and maybe an upgrade to Guitar Rig.


Yes, Acoustic guitarist is very nice, I'd like an electric one in style of the good old Virtual Guitarist 2


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## vicontrolu

Will komplete 11 be on sale just before 12 appears, according to history before?


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## Mike Fox

If K12U includes Thrill, I'll be pulling the trigger.


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## chillbot

mikefox789 said:


> If K12U includes Thrill, I'll be pulling the trigger.


Why is Thrill the difference? Just curious. Maybe I need to re-visit it. It's a fun library. It's very much a uni-tasker, like having a tool in your kitchen drawer that only takes out an avocado pit and is useless for anything else. It might be a nice addition but certainly not a deal-breaker, for me.


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## chillbot

Geoff Grace said:


> I usually upgrade every other version as a matter of course. I buy the even ones, so I'm likely to upgrade to 12 once the price comes down.


Funny, I think I have all the odds. Not 7, but started with 5 and upgraded to 9, then 11. If you and I got together...


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## Mike Fox

chillbot said:


> Why is Thrill the difference? Just curious. Maybe I need to re-visit it. It's a fun library. It's very much a uni-tasker, like having a tool in your kitchen drawer that only takes out an avocado pit and is useless for anything else. It might be a nice addition but certainly not a deal-breaker, for me.


Because 99.9% of what I compose is horror music.


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## chillbot

mikefox789 said:


> Because 99.9% of what I compose is horror music.


Hey, you should get Thrill. It's a perfect uni-tasker for you.

I gotta know... what's the other 0.1% ?


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## Mike Fox

chillbot said:


> Hey, you should get Thrill. It's a perfect uni-tasker for you.
> 
> I gotta know... what's the other 0.1% ?


Ha! The other 0.1% is epic polka reggae metal. It's not real popular right now, but I think it might take off here soon.


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## gpax

I stared with Komplete 2 - while some of you were still in grade school, lol. I’ve sporadically updated through the years, but there has been no rhyme or reason I can boast of, except where I’ve had flash sales of single products to offset (or justify) yet another Komplete upgrade. Incidentally, as I’ve also been using Kontakt since version 2, it was not always married to Komplete for me.

FWIW, I only became ultimate at version 10, trying to get all my disparate NI investments in manageable sync. Then early last year I calculated that going from KU10 to the non-ultimate 11, was more ecomincally practical in terms of what I’d actually use. Yes, you can do this, even as NI does not make this clear.

But then seduced again, I jumped back on the Ultimate 11 ship during the December half-off upgrade promo. And, I bought Thrill during that same promo, so here we go again calcuting that future upgrade cost... Uh, maybe subscription isn’t as nasty a word as it appears in that other thread?


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## Michel Simons

I too started with Komplete 2. From there I went to 6 and eventually 9. When I last checked whether going to 11 was of any interest to me I came to the conclusion that it wasn't. I personally haven't been too excited by the more recent NI additions.


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## Vovique

Vovique said:


> Yes, Acoustic guitarist is very nice, I'd like an electric one in style of the good old Virtual Guitarist 2


Looks like my wish is somewhat fulfilled!
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/guitar/session-guitarist-electric-sunburst/


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## Reid Rosefelt

Vovique said:


> Looks like my wish is somewhat fulfilled!
> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/guitar/session-guitarist-electric-sunburst/



The walkthrough video looks promising:


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## syntherer

Based on latest NativeAccess.xml KOMPLETE 12 includes


Spoiler



<SNPID>012 Elastic Thump
<SNPID>085 Form
<SNPID>090 Molten Veil
<SNPID>095 Queensbridge Story
<SNPID>140 Massive
<SNPID>152 The Giant
<SNPID>158 Drum Lab
<SNPID>204 Reaktor Prism
<SNPID>205 The Finger R2
<SNPID>206 Reaktor Spark R2
<SNPID>229 Kinetic Metal
<SNPID>249 Battery 4
<SNPID>250 Battery 4 Factory Library
<SNPID>260 Supercharger
<SNPID>269 Absynth 5
<SNPID>275 FM8
<SNPID>324 Kontakt Factory Library
<SNPID>329 Halcyon Sky
<SNPID>333 True School
<SNPID>391 Reaktor 6
<SNPID>413 Scarbee MM-Bass
<SNPID>422 Scarbee Vintage Keys
<SNPID>425 Vintage Organs
<SNPID>433 West Africa
<SNPID>435 Studio Drummer
<SNPID>436 Retro Machines Mk2
<SNPID>438 Abbey Road 60s Drummer
<SNPID>447 Solid EQ FX
<SNPID>449 Solid Dynamics FX
<SNPID>450 Solid Bus Comp FX
<SNPID>451 Transient Master FX
<SNPID>455 Session Horns
<SNPID>456 Monark
<SNPID>458 Driver
<SNPID>459 Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass
<SNPID>471 Lucid Mission
<SNPID>485 Komplete Kontrol
<SNPID>486 The Maverick
<SNPID>487 The Grandeur
<SNPID>488 The Gentleman
<SNPID>489 Rounds
<SNPID>490 Polyplex
<SNPID>491 Kontour
<SNPID>518 Rammfire
<SNPID>520 Reflektor
<SNPID>523 Traktors 12
<SNPID>525 Guitar Rig 5
<SNPID>544 Replika
<SNPID>568 Session Guitarist - Strummed Acoustic
<SNPID>577 Neon Drive
<SNPID>587 India
<SNPID>632 Velvet Lounge
<SNPID>635 Reaktor Blocks
<SNPID>636 Reaktor Factory Library
<SNPID>659 Una Corda
<SNPID>FX0 Choral
<SNPID>FX1 Flair
<SNPID>FX2 Phasis
<SNPID>K01 Middle East
<SNPID>K03 Session Strings 2
<SNPID>K6E Kontakt (6)
<SNPID>MXE Massive X ???
<SNPID>MXL Massive X Library ???
<SNPID>NB1 Native Browser Preview Library
<SNPID>TRK TRK-01
<SNPID>X01 London Grit
<SNPID>X05 Deep Matter


"new" comparing to 11:
10 expansions (Maschine/Battery)
Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass (Kontakt)
Choral (FX)
Flair (FX)
Phasis (FX)
Middle East (Kontakt)
Session Strings 2 (Kontakt)
Kontakt (6)
Massive X
TRK-01 (Reaktor)


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## zadillo

So Komplete 12 won’t include:

Session Guitarist Strummed Acoustic 2
Session Guitarist Electric Sunbird
Thrill
Kinetic Toys


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## jiffybox

Guess we all saw the exclusion of Thrill coming. This is a big, on-the-fence kind of _hmmmmmmm_ for me. Curious about Kontakt 6, Massive X, and the 10 Maschine expansions, though.


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## brek

There's a Rickenbacker bass in my version of Komplete 9 Ultimate. Did they take it away for 10 or 11?


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## rocking.xmas.man

What syntherer postet surely is komplete, not komplete ultimate.


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## sean8877

syntherer said:


> Based on latest NativeAccess.xml KOMPLETE 12 includes
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> <SNPID>012 Elastic Thump
> <SNPID>085 Form
> <SNPID>090 Molten Veil
> <SNPID>095 Queensbridge Story
> <SNPID>140 Massive
> <SNPID>152 The Giant
> <SNPID>158 Drum Lab
> <SNPID>204 Reaktor Prism
> <SNPID>205 The Finger R2
> <SNPID>206 Reaktor Spark R2
> <SNPID>229 Kinetic Metal
> <SNPID>249 Battery 4
> <SNPID>250 Battery 4 Factory Library
> <SNPID>260 Supercharger
> <SNPID>269 Absynth 5
> <SNPID>275 FM8
> <SNPID>324 Kontakt Factory Library
> <SNPID>329 Halcyon Sky
> <SNPID>333 True School
> <SNPID>391 Reaktor 6
> <SNPID>413 Scarbee MM-Bass
> <SNPID>422 Scarbee Vintage Keys
> <SNPID>425 Vintage Organs
> <SNPID>433 West Africa
> <SNPID>435 Studio Drummer
> <SNPID>436 Retro Machines Mk2
> <SNPID>438 Abbey Road 60s Drummer
> <SNPID>447 Solid EQ FX
> <SNPID>449 Solid Dynamics FX
> <SNPID>450 Solid Bus Comp FX
> <SNPID>451 Transient Master FX
> <SNPID>455 Session Horns
> <SNPID>456 Monark
> <SNPID>458 Driver
> <SNPID>459 Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass
> <SNPID>471 Lucid Mission
> <SNPID>485 Komplete Kontrol
> <SNPID>486 The Maverick
> <SNPID>487 The Grandeur
> <SNPID>488 The Gentleman
> <SNPID>489 Rounds
> <SNPID>490 Polyplex
> <SNPID>491 Kontour
> <SNPID>518 Rammfire
> <SNPID>520 Reflektor
> <SNPID>523 Traktors 12
> <SNPID>525 Guitar Rig 5
> <SNPID>544 Replika
> <SNPID>568 Session Guitarist - Strummed Acoustic
> <SNPID>577 Neon Drive
> <SNPID>587 India
> <SNPID>632 Velvet Lounge
> <SNPID>635 Reaktor Blocks
> <SNPID>636 Reaktor Factory Library
> <SNPID>659 Una Corda
> <SNPID>FX0 Choral
> <SNPID>FX1 Flair
> <SNPID>FX2 Phasis
> <SNPID>K01 Middle East
> <SNPID>K03 Session Strings 2
> <SNPID>K6E Kontakt (6)
> <SNPID>MXE Massive X ???
> <SNPID>MXL Massive X Library ???
> <SNPID>NB1 Native Browser Preview Library
> <SNPID>TRK TRK-01
> <SNPID>X01 London Grit
> <SNPID>X05 Deep Matter
> 
> 
> "new" comparing to 11:
> 10 expansions (Maschine/Battery)
> Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass (Kontakt)
> Choral (FX)
> Flair (FX)
> Phasis (FX)
> Middle East (Kontakt)
> Session Strings 2 (Kontakt)
> Kontakt (6)
> Massive X
> TRK-01 (Reaktor)



I'm curious about this one:

"Middle East (Kontakt)"

I don't see any Middle East VI on the NI website, is it new? If it's a percussion ensemble I would be very interested.


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## Mornats

brek said:


> There's a Rickenbacker bass in my version of Komplete 9 Ultimate. Did they take it away for 10 or 11?



I have it in my version of KU10U.


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## SoNowWhat?

sean8877 said:


> I'm curious about this one:
> 
> "Middle East (Kontakt)"
> 
> I don't see any Middle East VI on the NI website, is it new? If it's a percussion ensemble I would be very interested.


Interested to see what is in Middle East too.
Kontakt 6 (obviously) interesting.
Have Thrill so, no difference here if it is in KU12. Understand why others would want to get it in a K or KU bundle.


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## NYC Composer

Mike Fox said:


> Because 99.9% of what I compose is horror music.


Coolest horror sample product I've ever heard. Even the demos scare me.


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## fretti

Session Strings 2? Rarely used the first one (and I got that back in 2012 or so); sounds nice but to poppy (should have listened to those on the internet back then). Should look into it again though, maybe think otherwise of it now

Kontakt 6 would be for me the biggest reason, but probably not until next year or even 2020, when the newer libraries already use/come out with Kontakt 6 as until then I hope to finally upgrade my system for better performance...


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## Puzzlefactory

Mike Fox said:


> Because 99.9% of what I compose is horror music.



Surprised you didn’t get it when it was half price last Black Friday...


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## Shad0wLandsUK

Experience tells me not to get Kontakt 6 until at least rev. 6.4.x 

YMMV


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## jononotbono

If it does contain Kontakt 6 then I will definitely upgrade. Determines whether I can buy any new Library releases otherwise.


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## Mike Fox

Puzzlefactory said:


> Surprised you didn’t get it when it was half price last Black Friday...


I'm hopelessly waiting for the day it becomes part of K12U.


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## Michael Antrum

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Experience tells me not to get Kontakt 6 until at least rev. 6.4.x
> 
> YMMV




On current form, I'll be waiting until after 6.8.x....


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## Manaberry

Damn, I've checked the file on my PC to be sure; there is indeed Kontakt 6 and so one.
I'm sure NI knows about this. Anyway we don't know what's coming next, and when it supposed to be released.


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## Garry

zadillo said:


> So Komplete 12 won’t include:
> 
> Session Guitarist Strummed Acoustic 2
> Session Guitarist Electric Sunbird
> Thrill
> Kinetic Toys



3 of these 4 libraries would have been a minimum inclusion for me to upgrade to KU12. 

I guess I'll be looking at KU13...


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## Quasar

Unless this changes, nothing else they do or don't do matters to me in the slightest:


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## jononotbono

Quasar said:


> Unless this changes, nothing else they do or don't do matters to me in the slightest:



Curiously, why does this bother you? Does your studio computer/s not have an internet connection?


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## StillLife

Garry said:


> 3 of these 4 libraries would have been a minimum inclusion for me to upgrade to KU12.
> 
> I guess I'll be looking at KU13...


I think Zadillo is referring to K12, not KU12. I am not exactly sure where the info can be found, though.


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## KV626

Quasar said:


> Unless this changes, nothing else they do or don't do matters to me in the slightest:



I fail to see the problem here. Besides, online activation has been around for quite some time now.


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## banes

syntherer said:


> Based on latest NativeAccess.xml KOMPLETE 12 includes



There is no reference to Komplete 12 in my NativeAccess.xml file, where did you find it?


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## sostenuto

Will likely Update, but no Thrill will be a large disappointment ....


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## Quasar

jononotbono said:


> Curiously, why does this bother you? Does your studio computer/s not have an internet connection?



Been through all of this _ad nauseum_, but since you asked:

I believe _very strongly_ in the right to have a workstation that is not in any way a globally-connected internet device. When I built my current PC, I purposely did not include any connectivity hardware, though, practically speaking, it is not difficult to use a USB WiFi or whatever... It's mainly the principle of the thing, a privacy rights thing, but also a desire to not have my workstation subjected to vicissitudes of the World Wide Web. Offline, whether it's Spectre/Meltown, ransomware, unwanted Windows Updates, or whatever the cyber-security soap opera _du jour _might be, I can remain entirely aloof from this.

Again, just because a personal computer _can _be a global communications device does not mean that it should be _compelled_ to be. This should be a bedrock human rights principle of the 21st century digital age, and I won't shutup about it until it becomes so.

I do understand that companies can peddle software under any terms they like, and we can in turn choose whether or not those terms are acceptable to us, so I normally do not complain about or criticize developers who have CP I dislike. I simply ignore them.

But NI has supported offline activation throughout most of their existence, and many of us vested heavily in their ecosystem under those terms. It was only AFTER gaining a de facto monopoly via Kontakt in the sample library market, with 100s of third-party developers dependent on their whims, that they dropped offline activation support. I perceive this, rightly or wrongly (though I am right) as both a betrayal of trust and an abuse of monopolistic power.

Thus I continue to be angry, and believe that the evil Native Access software should be resisted. I realize that I am in the minority. _C'est la vie_.


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## Alex Fraser

jononotbono said:


> Curiously, why does this bother you? Does your studio computer/s not have an internet connection?


Luke..NOOOOO!
Edit: Too late.


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## Quasar

Alex Fraser said:


> Luke..NOOOOO!
> Edit: Too late.


Need to work on your timing, dude...


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## Alex Fraser

Quasar said:


> Need to work on your timing, dude...


LOL - sorry mate. Didn't bother to refresh the page. But still with this position? I'm looking forward to your reaction when Komplete goes subscription. 

....which I guess moves us on to the next question. Will it *be* Komplete Kloud this time around?


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## jononotbono

Well, cheers for the response.


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## Quasar

Alex Fraser said:


> LOL - sorry mate. Didn't bother to refresh the page. But still with this position? I'm looking forward to your reaction when Komplete goes subscription.
> 
> ....which I guess moves us on to the next question. Will it *be* Komplete Kloud this time around?



_Still_ with this position? I just turn the question around and ask: NI and Native Access is _still_ demanding an online connection? The persistent aspect of this draconian injustice is on them, not me.

My reaction if Komplete Kloud comes into existence will be to ignore it, unless someone makes the mistake of asking me what I think....


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## ironbut

I'm wondering if you'll need to upgrade to 12 to be able to upgrade Kontakt?
I went from Ultimate 9 to Ultimate 11 (to get Reaktor 6 for the most part) and I was able to keep up with all the Kontakt upgrades in between.
I'm not inclined to upgrade to 12 unless I have to.


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## NYC Composer

The Silence of the Evil Dragon is deafening.

(I’m sure he’s signed an NDA.)


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## muziksculp

Looking forward to upgrade to K12U

Espeically excited to see* Kontakt 6* and how much it is improved in terms of GUI, workflow, and features.

So.. When can we expect the release ? during May, or maybe June ?


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## ironbut

I heard that NI is on an 18 month cycle so it'll be early next year?


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## EvilDragon

NYC Composer said:


> The Silence of the Evil Dragon is deafening.
> 
> (I’m sure he’s signed an NDA.)



Actually, I knew nothing about this until I read about it here. 

Also, Kontakt 6 isn't yet in beta testing, that much I can say, I think.



muziksculp said:


> Espeically excited to see* Kontakt 6* and how much it is improved in terms of GUI, workflow, and features.



I don't thing you should expect huge changes in workflow. Although I think it's reasonable to expect that instrument edit mode will be spruced up GUI-wise to match the rest of the GUI refresh that happened in K5.6 and above.



ironbut said:


> I heard that NI is on an 18 month cycle so it'll be early next year?



Yeah, but K11 was released in Sep 2016, which means 18 months puts it at Mar 2018 and we've already way past that.  It's not unreasonable to expect late Fall or perhaps even Winter this time. Or indeed Q1 2019. Just a matter of releasing those individual products beforehand...


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## muziksculp

EvilDragon said:


> I don't thing you should expect huge changes in workflow. Although I think it's reasonable to expect that instrument edit mode will be spruced up GUI-wise to match the rest of the GUI refresh that happened in K5.6 and above.



So.. are you saying the Kontakt 6 is just a minor update to Kontakt 5.6 ? That would be totally underwhelming, and disappointing, given the amount of time NI had to improve, and modernize Kontakt 6. Hopefully that's not the case.


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## artomatic

Not an owner of Komplete. Is this a good deal?


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## EvilDragon

muziksculp said:


> So.. are you saying the Kontakt 6 is just a minor update to Kontakt 5.6 ? That would be totally underwhelming, and disappointing, given the amount of time NI had to improve, and modernize Kontakt 6. Hopefully that's not the case.



No, I'm saying you shouldn't expect a complete rewrite of Kontakt because it will not happen (for a myriad of reasons I will not get into here). All currently established workflows are likely to remain. Don't expect a completely new GUI either: K5.6 is for the most part it, only instrument edit mode needs to be brought to the same style. As for "minor update", that's a bit laughable - it wouldn't be next big version number if it were just a minor update. I'm sure NI has some surprises in store, but don't expect anyone to spill them out before the actual release. 

At least that's my take on things. Again, don't take this as anything official, it's my thoughts.


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## NYC Composer

artomatic said:


> Not an owner of Komplete. Is this a good deal?


I’m only on K8, but I definitely think so. I started at K2.


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## EvilDragon

Do note that Komplete Select only gets you the players, not full versions of Kontakt etc.


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## dflood

Am I the only one who doesn’t mind Native Access? I’m always up to date with my licenses, patches, etc. and at least it’s not a dongle - unless you consider the internet connection a dongle, which it kind of is


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## rocking.xmas.man

yes you are the only one. Native access sucks. They should go for ilok or elicenser. With completely encapsulated library Management. Would be easy to manage trials this way.


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## EvilDragon

NI will never go with a dongle.


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## Puzzlefactory

EvilDragon said:


> NI will never go with a dongle.



Never say never...


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## Mornats

I'm fine with Native Access but shudder at the thought of ever having to use a dongle.


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## EvilDragon

Puzzlefactory said:


> Never say never...



If you'll remember, when they started early on they had a dongle in form of DSP card for Generator (Reaktor's grandfather), and I think even Reaktor 3 had a USB dongle. That didn't work out so they gave up on dongles for good. It won't happen - because they have their hardware business, which can't be pirated. That has them covered well enough.


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## KV626

ok EvilDragon, every time I look at your Avatar it feels like I'm reading a post from Cliff Burton and that's weird


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## KV626

rocking.xmas.man said:


> yes you are the only one.



No he's not.  ...Nothing wrong with Native Access here, except when I had to reinstall all my KU libraries a few months ago, that were already installed (it was after an OS downgrade, from High Sierra to Sierra). Other than that annoying little hiccup, I have absolutely zero issue with Native Access, keeps everything up-to-date which is all I ask for.


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## robgb

tav.one said:


> Kontakt 6 will warrant an upgrade for most


I'm more and more convinced that Kontakt 6 is vaperware.


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## Alex Fraser

robgb said:


> I'm more and more convinced that Kontakt 6 is vaperware.


Possibly for the wider user base, Kontakt 6 wouldn't be that big of a deal? Kontakt has already had a facelift. I would think the majority of users interact with the plugin through the various player interfaces. Those who delve in into the editor must be in the minority.

I'm probably going against the main consensus, but unless there's a massive performance increase to be had, I'm not sure "Kontakt 6" is that marketable a thing, especially if NI are pushing the whole Kontrol experience.


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## robgb

Alex Fraser said:


> Those who delve in into the editor must be in the minority.


Not just that. I'm amazed by the number of composers who don't even bother buying the full version of Kontakt and are content with Kontakt Player.


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## Alex Fraser

robgb said:


> Not just that. I'm amazed by the number of composers who don't even bother buying the full version of Kontakt and are content with Kontakt Player.


Count me amongst those heathens.


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## EvilDragon

KV626 said:


> ok EvilDragon, every time I look at your Avatar it feels like I'm reading a post from Cliff Burton and that's weird



I will take that as a huge compliment. :D


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## robgb

Alex Fraser said:


> Count me amongst those heathens.


As I said, I'm amazed. Even if you never crack Kontakt open and look inside, the great wealth of instruments available for the full version of Kontakt is nearly endless. Why limit yourself?


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## dflood

rocking.xmas.man said:


> yes you are the only one. Native access sucks. They should go for ilok or elicenser. With completely encapsulated library Management. Would be easy to manage trials this way.


I've trialed lots of time limited demos of other software without a dongle. I'm pretty sure NI could do it if they wanted to, and I really wish they would. This might be a dumb question, but even with a dongle, wouldn't the actual samples still be vulnerable to theft during the trial period?


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## EvilDragon

dflood said:


> I'm pretty sure NI could do it if they wanted to, and I really wish they would.



They could of course, but they won't.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

dflood said:


> I've trialed lots of time limited demos of other software without a dongle. I'm pretty sure NI could do it if they wanted to, and I really wish they would. This might be a dumb question, but even with a dongle, wouldn't the actual samples still be vulnerable to theft during the trial period?



NI has free trials available for 40 instruments and effects. 
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/download-free-software-and-demo-versions/

You can play them in one of the players for 30 minutes until they time out.


----------



## syntherer

EvilDragon said:


> Kontakt 6 isn't yet in beta testing


I think, new Kontakt is already on beta testing since 5.6.x, and we all are testers. Updated GUI, new protection, wider instruments UI, KSP additions. Similar thing was with late Reaktor 5 versions.

Second reason, why I suppose it's happening, is that new Kontakt will be just Kontakt - without any number in name.
That's why they renamed first Kontakt in NativeAccess.xml into "Kontakt 1.0" (with "1.0") and removed version number from Kontakt 6 - now it's just Kontakt (Kontakt Application).


----------



## EvilDragon

syntherer said:


> I think, new Kontakt is already on beta testing since 5.6.x, and we all are testers. Updated GUI, new protection, wider instruments UI, KSP additions. Similar thing was with late Reaktor 5 versions.



Well, that's certainly one way you could look at it. 


(BTW Kontakt's protection didn't change really - it's still the same challenge/response as before, except now it's handled by NA instead of SC.)


----------



## syntherer

EvilDragon said:


> BTW Kontakt's protection didn't change really - it's still the same challenge/response as before


I mean added RAS3 expanded protection for new libraries.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

syntherer said:


> Based on latest NativeAccess.xml KOMPLETE 12 includes
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> <SNPID>012 Elastic Thump
> <SNPID>085 Form
> <SNPID>090 Molten Veil
> <SNPID>095 Queensbridge Story
> <SNPID>140 Massive
> <SNPID>152 The Giant
> <SNPID>158 Drum Lab
> <SNPID>204 Reaktor Prism
> <SNPID>205 The Finger R2
> <SNPID>206 Reaktor Spark R2
> <SNPID>229 Kinetic Metal
> <SNPID>249 Battery 4
> <SNPID>250 Battery 4 Factory Library
> <SNPID>260 Supercharger
> <SNPID>269 Absynth 5
> <SNPID>275 FM8
> <SNPID>324 Kontakt Factory Library
> <SNPID>329 Halcyon Sky
> <SNPID>333 True School
> <SNPID>391 Reaktor 6
> <SNPID>413 Scarbee MM-Bass
> <SNPID>422 Scarbee Vintage Keys
> <SNPID>425 Vintage Organs
> <SNPID>433 West Africa
> <SNPID>435 Studio Drummer
> <SNPID>436 Retro Machines Mk2
> <SNPID>438 Abbey Road 60s Drummer
> <SNPID>447 Solid EQ FX
> <SNPID>449 Solid Dynamics FX
> <SNPID>450 Solid Bus Comp FX
> <SNPID>451 Transient Master FX
> <SNPID>455 Session Horns
> <SNPID>456 Monark
> <SNPID>458 Driver
> <SNPID>459 Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass
> <SNPID>471 Lucid Mission
> <SNPID>485 Komplete Kontrol
> <SNPID>486 The Maverick
> <SNPID>487 The Grandeur
> <SNPID>488 The Gentleman
> <SNPID>489 Rounds
> <SNPID>490 Polyplex
> <SNPID>491 Kontour
> <SNPID>518 Rammfire
> <SNPID>520 Reflektor
> <SNPID>523 Traktors 12
> <SNPID>525 Guitar Rig 5
> <SNPID>544 Replika
> <SNPID>568 Session Guitarist - Strummed Acoustic
> <SNPID>577 Neon Drive
> <SNPID>587 India
> <SNPID>632 Velvet Lounge
> <SNPID>635 Reaktor Blocks
> <SNPID>636 Reaktor Factory Library
> <SNPID>659 Una Corda
> <SNPID>FX0 Choral
> <SNPID>FX1 Flair
> <SNPID>FX2 Phasis
> <SNPID>K01 Middle East
> <SNPID>K03 Session Strings 2
> <SNPID>K6E Kontakt (6)
> <SNPID>MXE Massive X ???
> <SNPID>MXL Massive X Library ???
> <SNPID>NB1 Native Browser Preview Library
> <SNPID>TRK TRK-01
> <SNPID>X01 London Grit
> <SNPID>X05 Deep Matter
> 
> 
> "new" comparing to 11:
> 10 expansions (Maschine/Battery)
> Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass (Kontakt)
> Choral (FX)
> Flair (FX)
> Phasis (FX)
> Middle East (Kontakt)
> Session Strings 2 (Kontakt)
> Kontakt (6)
> Massive X
> TRK-01 (Reaktor)



This may be a list of what's included in Komplete 12, because Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass is included in Komplete Ultimate 11, and this list doesn't include other KU libraries, as far as I can tell. Therefore, it's possible that more instruments, like Thrill, Session Guitarist Electric Sunbird and Strummed Guitarist 2, and Kinetic Toys, might turn up in Komplete Ultimate 12. It does make sense that they would divide the new KU12 instruments into two tiers.


----------



## syntherer

*TigerTheFrog*, you can explore, which products are included in K12U. More 10 expansions (20 total), 3 new FX - Bite, Freak and Dirt, Session Strings Pro 2 and everything you mentioned.


Spoiler



<SNPID>012 Elastic Thump
<SNPID>064 Session Guitarist - Strummed Acoustic 2
<SNPID>085 Form
<SNPID>087 Symphony Essentials Woodwind Solo
<SNPID>088 Symphony Essentials Woodwind Ensemble
<SNPID>090 Molten Veil
<SNPID>095 Queensbridge Story
<SNPID>140 Massive
<SNPID>151 Skanner XT
<SNPID>152 The Giant
<SNPID>158 Drum Lab
<SNPID>191 RC 24
<SNPID>192 RC 48
<SNPID>204 Reaktor Prism
<SNPID>205 The Finger R2
<SNPID>206 Reaktor Spark R2
<SNPID>209 The Mouth
<SNPID>212 Razor
<SNPID>225 Action Strikes
<SNPID>229 Kinetic Metal
<SNPID>248 Molekular
<SNPID>249 Battery 4
<SNPID>250 Battery 4 Factory Library
<SNPID>269 Absynth 5
<SNPID>275 FM8
<SNPID>294 Supercharger GT
<SNPID>295 Marble Rims
<SNPID>314 Session Horns Pro
<SNPID>324 Kontakt Factory Library
<SNPID>325 Rise And Hit
<SNPID>329 Halcyon Sky
<SNPID>333 True School
<SNPID>336 Platinum Bounce
<SNPID>349 Drop Squad Bundle
<SNPID>391 Reaktor 6
<SNPID>402 Maschine Drum Selection
<SNPID>405 Evolve Mutations
<SNPID>406 Scarbee Pre-Bass
<SNPID>407 Scarbee Pre-Bass Amped
<SNPID>408 Balinese Gamelan
<SNPID>413 Scarbee MM-Bass
<SNPID>414 Scarbee MM-Bass Amped
<SNPID>415 Scarbee Jay-Bass
<SNPID>417 Alicias Keys
<SNPID>419 Evolve Mutations 2
<SNPID>422 Scarbee Vintage Keys
<SNPID>425 Vintage Organs
<SNPID>430 George Duke Soul Treasures
<SNPID>431 Scarbee Funk Guitarist
<SNPID>433 West Africa
<SNPID>435 Studio Drummer
<SNPID>436 Retro Machines Mk2
<SNPID>437 Damage
<SNPID>438 Abbey Road 60s Drummer
<SNPID>439 Abbey Road 70s Drummer
<SNPID>440 Abbey Road 80s Drummer
<SNPID>441 Abbey Road Modern Drummer
 <SNPID>442 Evolve R2
<SNPID>444 Enhanced EQ
<SNPID>445 Passive EQ
<SNPID>446 Vari Comp
<SNPID>447 Solid EQ FX
<SNPID>448 VC 76 FX
<SNPID>449 Solid Dynamics FX
<SNPID>450 Solid Bus Comp FX
<SNPID>451 Transient Master FX
<SNPID>452 VC 160 FX
<SNPID>453 VC 2A FX
<SNPID>454 Action Strings
<SNPID>456 Monark
<SNPID>457 Abbey Road Vintage Drummer
<SNPID>458 Driver
<SNPID>459 Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass
<SNPID>469 Abbey Road 50s Drummer
<SNPID>471 Lucid Mission
<SNPID>485 Komplete Kontrol
<SNPID>486 The Maverick
<SNPID>487 The Grandeur
<SNPID>488 The Gentleman
<SNPID>489 Rounds
<SNPID>490 Polyplex
<SNPID>491 Kontour
<SNPID>518 Rammfire
<SNPID>520 Reflektor
<SNPID>523 Traktors 12
<SNPID>525 Guitar Rig 5
<SNPID>540 Cuba
<SNPID>546 Caribbean Current
<SNPID>561 Replika XT
<SNPID>568 Session Guitarist - Strummed Acoustic
<SNPID>569 Emotive Strings
<SNPID>577 Neon Drive
<SNPID>581 Astral Flutter
<SNPID>584 Golden Kingdom
<SNPID>587 India
<SNPID>599 Flesh
<SNPID>632 Velvet Lounge
<SNPID>635 Reaktor Blocks
<SNPID>636 Reaktor Factory Library
<SNPID>653 Cavern Floor
<SNPID>659 Una Corda
<SNPID>663 Kinetic Toys
<SNPID>668 Symphony Essentials Brass Ensemble
<SNPID>669 Symphony Essentials Brass Solo
<SNPID>670 Symphony Essentials String Ensemble
<SNPID>681 Lazer Dice
<SNPID>949 Thrill
<SNPID>FX0 Choral
<SNPID>FX1 Flair
<SNPID>FX2 Phasis
<SNPID>FX4 Bite
<SNPID>FX5 Freak
<SNPID>FX6 Dirt
<SNPID>K01 Middle East
<SNPID>K02 Session Guitarist - Electric Sunburst
<SNPID>K04 Session Strings Pro 2
<SNPID>K6E Kontakt (6)
<SNPID>MXE Massive X ???
<SNPID>MXL Massive X Library ???
<SNPID>NB1 Native Browser Preview Library
<SNPID>SE1 Symphony Essentials Percussion
<SNPID>TRK TRK-01
<SNPID>X01 London Grit
<SNPID>X03 Byte Riot
<SNPID>X04 Decoded Forms
<SNPID>X05 Deep Matter


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Also Symphony Essentials Percussion. And it appears that The Finger and Spark may have updates.

Thanks @syntherer If they are set on this list, then they don't have a lot of new products to introduce this summer. If so, there's no reason why it couldn't come out in August/September, like Komplete 11 did. 

I'm glad they are continuing to expand their world instruments.


----------



## Quasar

robgb said:


> As I said, I'm amazed. Even if you never crack Kontakt open and look inside, the great wealth of instruments available for the full version of Kontakt is nearly endless. Why limit yourself?



I share this sentiment (notwithstanding my loathing of Native Access, which is a different subject). Composing with sample libraries without the full Kontakt would be like playing ice hockey without wearing skates. You could slide around on the ice with tennis shoes, I suppose, but it would be crippling. IMHO Kontakt is that fundamental.


----------



## EvilDragon

TigerTheFrog said:


> And it appears that The Finger and Spark may have updates.



Nope, those are just current versions. "R2" denotes post-Kore updates of those two products.


----------



## fretti

Tbh after using the full version of Kontakt 5 for half a year now (and the player a lot longer) I'm (as a consumer/hobbyist) not really missing anything. But as I have done some VI's on my own with scripting (probably only used about 1% of KSP possibilities there), I can imagine that for pro composers who do that a lot and KSP pros like EvilDragon there is a lot that can be enhanced and added "under the hood", of what I for sure never even heard of...so even though there probably won't be that much changes in GUI etc. for the "normal" customer who only uses the libraries, it's after all most likely still worth the Upgrade (just my humble opinion here though...)


----------



## pderbidge

Quasar said:


> I share this sentiment (notwithstanding my loathing of Native Access, which is a different subject). Composing with sample libraries without the full Kontakt would be like playing ice hockey without wearing skates. You could slide around on the ice with tennis shoes, I suppose, but it would be crippling. IMHO Kontakt is that fundamental.



If you do a lot of editing of the sample files then yes, and maybe playing with time stretch etc... then the full version of Kontakt would be necessary for that but if you are referring to the built in effects then it depends. I tend to use the effects I've purchased as well as what comes with my DAW instead of diving too much into Kontakts effects, although I do play with them once in a while. I know my way around Kontakt but I'm not an expert so it would be educational to know what features of Kontakt you find invaluable. Just the highlights as to not deter from the OP' thread. I can dig deeper from there as I'd love to know what you and others are doing with Kontakt that I'm not yet doing.


----------



## Quasar

pderbidge said:


> If you do a lot of editing of the sample files then yes, and maybe playing with time stretch etc... then the full version of Kontakt would be necessary for that but if you are referring to the built in effects then it depends. I tend to use the effects I've purchased as well as what comes with my DAW instead of diving too much into Kontakts effects, although I do play with them once in a while. I know my way around Kontakt but I'm not an expert so it would be educational to know what features of Kontakt you find invaluable. Just the highlights as to not deter from the OP' thread. I can dig deeper from there as I'd love to know what you and others are doing with Kontakt that I'm not yet doing.



I don't do much under the hood either, though there have been some exceptions and I do like the options, so that's not the reason in my case.

No, for me full Kontakt is about having access to all of the gazillion open libraries, especially by small devs who might have great creativity but not a lot of money and cannot afford or are otherwise disinclined to pay the NI fees to make their libraries Player-compatible. And because they're not paying NI, this means lower prices for the end user.

Many of my very favorite libraries and developers support full Kontakt only. It has much more than paid for itself here. Even before NI went toxic with its Native Access software I preferred full Kontakt, though I used to not mind either way.

But if one is only using libraries from companies that make Player libraries, doesn't mind forced online activation, and are set with that, then it's true there wouldn't be a need to purchase Kontakt, especially if not digging into the editing features. Everyone is different.


----------



## Mornats

Quasar said:


> No, for me full Kontakt is about having access to all of the gazillion open libraries



Exactly the same for me. I never delve under the hood but couldn't do without the likes of Sound Dust and other small libraries that are as brilliant as they are quirky.


----------



## Quasar

Mornats said:


> Exactly the same for me. I never delve under the hood but couldn't do without the likes of Sound Dust and other small libraries that are as brilliant as they are quirky.


Pendle at Sound Dust is awesome indeed. Great example.


----------



## Nao Gam

Do you guys think there's going to be another 50% komplete sale before komplete 12 comes out?


----------



## pderbidge

Quasar said:


> No, for me full Kontakt is about having access to all of the gazillion open libraries, especially by small devs who might have great creativity but not a lot of money and cannot afford or are otherwise disinclined to pay the NI fees to make their libraries Player-compatible. And because they're not paying NI, this means lower prices for the end user.



Very good point, and one I can't believe I forgot about. That reason alone is why the full version of Kontakt is worth it.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Nao Gam said:


> Do you guys think there's going to be another 50% komplete sale before komplete 12 comes out?


Probably already linked before, but here's the standard:
http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/05/native-instruments-sales-on-komplete.html

I do like Komplete. It's just "always there" covering the bases with a vaguely predictable upgrade cycle. Like an old friend. (Who costs me money.)

Edit: Also, "Massive X" - the synth is over 10 years old now, so some sort of "anniversary edition?" with tweaks and new sounds?


----------



## EvilDragon

If they wanted an anniversary edition, they would've made it on exactly 10th year, not "over 10 years"... It's probably a fancy "version 2" name. Likely with new GUI, new functionality etc., we'll see.


----------



## Alex Fraser

EvilDragon said:


> If they wanted an anniversary edition, they would've made it on exactly 10th year, not "over 10 years"... It's probably a fancy "version 2" name. Likely with new GUI, new functionality etc., we'll see.


Or maybe development took longer than they thought. 
Fun times ahead, regardless.


----------



## Garry

syntherer said:


> *TigerTheFrog*, you can explore, which products are included in K12U. More 10 expansions (20 total), 3 new FX - Bite, Freak and Dirt, Session Strings Pro 2 and everything you mentioned.



Wow, if this is accurate, then it includes what were for me, the 3 required inclusions to upgrade: Thrill, Acoustic Guitar 2 and Electric Sunburst. 

I have a love/hate relationship with K11U: there are some libraries I use extensively (all the pianos, drums, basses, percussive effects (Damage, Rise & Hit, Kinetic Metal), but the guitar and orchestral libraries are just ok (Session Horns Emotive Strings, Session Strings, Symphony Essentials), but I mainly prefer other dedicated libraries for orchestral. But I don't use any of the 10 synths included, and only 1 (Guitar Pro 5) of the effects, and having all of these (and effectively paid for them) without using them seems a waste. 

I feel like with the synths, it's just not my thing, but the effects is more likely my ignorance: do people use the delays, compressors, EQ, distortion and reverb that comes with K11U? Do you only use them if you don't have other dedicated plug-ins for these purposes?

I guess a bundle is always going to be this: you'll like some things and not others, and that will differ to others' preferences. But why not allow people to put together a bundle of their own choosing, that still has the savings that the 'Ultimate' has?


----------



## EvilDragon

Garry said:


> do people use the delays, compressors, EQ, distortion and reverb that comes with K11U?



Replika XT, Driver, RC24/48, Supercharger are all great, great stuff. Even if you have other stuff like Valhalla, Soundtoys, MFM2, Uhbik...


----------



## Garry

EvilDragon said:


> Replika, Driver, RC, Supercharger are all great, great stuff.


Good to know - I hate the fact that these things sit on my hard drive, without my ever exploring them. I'll take a look at these, based on your recommendation. Thanks.


----------



## Mornats

On top of the effects ED mentioned I'm also getting some nice results from the vintage compressors. I think Massive is overlooked a lot by composers but check out the preset packs from The Unfinished and Leap Into The Void.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Mornats said:


> I think Massive is overlooked a lot by composers but check out the preset packs from The Unfinished and Leap Into The Void.


I think the entire suite is often overlooked in favour of the latest and greatest.


----------



## fretti

EvilDragon said:


> Replika XT, Driver, RC24/48, Supercharger are all great, great stuff. Even if you have other stuff like Valhalla, Soundtoys, MFM2, Uhbik...


Actually the RCs are my most used Reverbs when I think about it...and the Compressor/EQ things work really great for drums and bass/guitar and lots of other stuff imo


----------



## Garry

I can't seem to find Reflektor - I see installed under Native Access, but if I look under Audio Units, I see all of the other NI effects, but not this one. Do I find it somewhere else?


----------



## lucor

I really hope that Kontakt 6 will make it possible to use the Light Guide of the Komplete keyboards without using the Komplete software. My Keylab88 is slowly dying and that would make it an instabuy for me.


----------



## JC_

Garry said:


> I can't seem to find Reflektor - I see installed under Native Access, but if I look under Audio Units, I see all of the other NI effects, but not this one. Do I find it somewhere else?



I've never used Reflektor but I believe it's a Guitar Rig effect. So you need to load Guitar Rig and load up the effect from there.


----------



## Garry

JC_ said:


> I've never used Reflektor but I believe it's a Guitar Rig effect. So you need to load Guitar Rig and load up the effect from there.


Ah yes, now I see it, you were correct. Thanks


----------



## Garry

Is there a way in Logic to show both the audio effect window, and the Kontakt window - I'd like to see both, but when I load up one, it makes the other disappear.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Garry said:


> Is there a way in Logic to show both the audio effect window, and the Kontakt window - I'd like to see both, but when I load up one, it makes the other disappear.


If I understand your issue correctly, have a play with the "chain link" button, top right of your plugin window. If it's purple, the window will follow the last clicked VI or plugin.


----------



## Garry

Alex Fraser said:


> If I understand your issue correctly, have a play with the "chain link" button, top right of your plugin window. If it's purple, the window will follow the last clicked VI or plugin.


Oh wow, so it was really that simple!!! Now I feel dumb!

Thanks for relieving me of my ignorance!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Garry said:


> Oh wow, so it was really that simple!!! Now I feel dumb!
> Thanks for relieving me of my ignorance!


LOL - we all do it! Go advanced by right-clicking the icon and selecting "multi" - now the window updates on a "per slot" basis.

Back OT - any bets on a "Summer Of Sound" sale?


----------



## Garry

Alex Fraser said:


> LOL - we all do it! Go advanced by right-clicking the icon and selecting "multi" - now the window updates on a "per slot" basis.


Aaaahhh!!!! THAT'S what I was aiming for! Thanks!

I'm such a dumbass!


----------



## redlester

I've only had KU11 for about 18 months, out of interest - how much did they charge at the time for the upgrade from KU10 to KU11?


----------



## String-for-sale

redlester said:


> I've only had KU11 for about 18 months, out of interest - how much did they charge at the time for the upgrade from KU10 to KU11?


The regular upgrade price is 400$.


----------



## R. Soul

Mornats said:


> On top of the effects ED mentioned I'm also getting some nice results from the vintage compressors. I think Massive is overlooked a lot by composers but check out the preset packs from The Unfinished and Leap Into The Void.



Perhaps on Vi-control, but Massive is probably the biggest virtual synth ever. It was absolutely massive (doh) with the EDM crowd a few years back.


----------



## Mornats

Yep, it certainly is. It's a bit more versatile than some people think though. Those preset packs I mentioned are great.


----------



## R. Soul

Mornats said:


> Yep, it certainly is. It's a bit more versatile than some people think though. Those preset packs I mentioned are great.


If someone only have Komplete, Massive is great, but I suspect a lot of people here either don't use synths or have things like Omnisphere, Zebra, Serum or Avenger. Some 7-10 years ago it was one of the front runners, but today we are spoiled for choice.


----------



## redlester

R. Soul said:


> If someone only have Komplete, Massive is great, but I suspect a lot of people here either don't use synths or have things like Omnisphere, Zebra, Serum or Avenger. Some 7-10 years ago it was one of the front runners, but today we are spoiled for choice.



Definitely spoiled for choice. Some of the synths in Reaktor are wonderful as well. It’s almost too much choice. (Almost).


----------



## Mornats

Don't give me GAS for another go-to synth


----------



## Mornats

Funny you should say that as I've been eyeing up the Alchemist Bundle for ages.


----------



## SoNowWhat?

redlester said:


> Definitely spoiled for choice. Some of the synths in Reaktor are wonderful as well. It’s almost too much choice. (Almost).


I’ve been mucking about with Prism (Reaktor) over the last couple of weeks and I think it’s quite handy. Some nice sounds in there, and perhaps a bit different to what I tend to go for (Omni2 and anything/everything by U-he). I think Reaktor is unbelievably powerful. I hope one day to have the time to dig into it more than “not at all” which is about the size of it so far. 

The more I think about it the more I’m amazed by the tools we have available to make music.


----------



## Fry777

In terms of potentially overlooked NI plugins, do you know if Guitar Rig pro would allow someone to produce similar sounds to this :


(I realise this sound was made using another lib)

Are the Guitar Rig amp sims any similar ? The sound in the teaser was processed through an S-gear amp sim (with lots of reverb), is it really superior ?


----------



## slateandash

EvilDragon said:


> Replika XT, Driver, RC24/48, Supercharger are all great, great stuff. Even if you have other stuff like Valhalla, Soundtoys, MFM2, Uhbik...



Do you know if NI plan to integrate any of these fx algorithms into Kontakt ever? If Kontakt had decent effects you could go so much further with it. Its my main bug bear as a developer.


----------



## EvilDragon

Fry777 said:


> Are the Guitar Rig amp sims any similar ? The sound in the teaser was processed through an S-gear amp sim (with lots of reverb), is it really superior ?



If you need lots of different ways to fuck up the sound, GR is still good. If you need an amp sim which sounds and behaves like a proper amp, other ampsims are MUCH better than Guitar Rig. Like, on a whole other level.


----------



## EvilDragon

slateandash said:


> Do you know if NI plan to integrate any of these fx algorithms into Kontakt ever? If Kontakt had decent effects you could go so much further with it. Its my main bug bear as a developer.



I have no idea, but they DID improve some of their effects in v5 (including solid bus comp which is their standalone plugin, transient master, adding feedback comp, and then adding new filter types and later on some amps and distortions from Guitar Rig).


----------



## slateandash

EvilDragon said:


> I have no idea, but they DID improve some of their effects in v5 (including solid bus comp which is their standalone plugin, transient master, adding feedback comp, and then adding new filter types and later on some amps and distortions from Guitar Rig).



The transient master works well but the filters are awful. The reverb and delay are very limited and poor in quality, it’s a real shame. 

Also, I wonder when they’ll allow for full retina gui for instrument section


----------



## EvilDragon

Dunno the new filters introduced in K5 are much much better than those old ones from K4 and before (they're made by Mike Daliot who also did Massive and Monark, so he knows a thing or two about filters). Wider range and they modulate better. Just as good quality as any filter in Falcon or Halion, I would say.

You can't really get extremely detailed circuit-modelled filters in a sampler that's supposed to shell out hundreds of voices simultaneously. It just ain't happening.



slateandash said:


> Also, I wonder when they’ll allow for full retina gui for instrument section



Probably never because all the scripted GUIs are raster graphics, not vectors. Unless they introduce vector drawing to KSP somehow. But still, great GREAT majority of libraries would still use the old graphics, which aren't Retina compatible, so you'll have them blurry then. No easy way to go about it.


----------



## slateandash

EvilDragon said:


> Dunno the new filters introduced in K5 are much much better than those old ones from K4 and before (they're made by Mike Daliot who also did Massive and Monark, so he knows a thing or two about filters). Wider range and they modulate better. Just as good quality as any filter in Falcon or Halion, I would say.
> 
> You can't really get extremely detailed circuit-modelled filters in a sampler that's supposed to shell out hundreds of voices simultaneously. It just ain't happening.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably never because all the scripted GUIs are raster graphics, not vectors. Unless they introduce vector drawing to KSP somehow. But still, great GREAT majority of libraries would still use the old graphics, which aren't Retina compatible, so you'll have them blurry then. No easy way to go about it.



It’s a shame about the filters and effects limitations really as it stops it going to that next level, for me personally. 

Could there not be a possibility of some adaptive setting for gui resolution?


----------



## StillLife

EvilDragon said:


> If you need lots of different ways to fuck up the sound, GR is still good. If you need an amp sim which sounds and behaves like a proper amp, other ampsims are MUCH better than Guitar Rig. Like, on a whole other level.


Do you have any examples? I use GR5 as an ampsim, and I am curious which sims will do (much) better!


----------



## jononotbono

StillLife said:


> Do you have any examples? I use GR5 as an ampsim, and I am curious which sims will do (much) better!



S Gear Scuffham Amps wipes the floor with GR in terms of emulating a proper Guitar Amp. One that responds to your playing etc.


Wondering if Thrill is included in K11U or 12U? I own 10U and been waiting to upgrade it till it feels worth it for me and Kontakt 6, Reaktor 6 and Thrill would definitely push me to upgrade.


----------



## Nao Gam

StillLife said:


> Do you have any examples? I use GR5 as an ampsim, and I am curious which sims will do (much) better!


I'm also going to use guitar rig (can't beat komplete) and I think it does cleans pretty well, but from what I've heard it's not the best with the metal stuff. Bias & bias fx by positive grid is my fave so far check this out:


----------



## EvilDragon

StillLife said:


> Do you have any examples? I use GR5 as an ampsim, and I am curious which sims will do (much) better!



Kazrog, S-Gear, TSE, Kuassa, Mercuriall, they are all more accurate ampsims than any model GR5 offers. There's just better dynamics, better pick response, more accurate amp models, and so on.


----------



## SoNowWhat?

StillLife said:


> Do you have any examples? I use GR5 as an ampsim, and I am curious which sims will do (much) better!


Helix Native here. 
Think it’s great but I’ve heard lots of good things about S-Gear. Also heard good things about Waves new PRS supermodel sims. That’s a bit more niche though and no effects, just the amp sims.


----------



## ChazC

For tracking I use Waves GTR, by far the least CPU intensive amp sim I’ve come across. For mixing I usually go to Scuffham but for live I still use Guitar Rig 5 with all the program changes & CC’s embedded in the sequence (I use Ableton for gigs, just playing back wav’s of my Cubase programmed backing tracks). Due to the lack of usable foot controllers I’ve just bought a Boss GT-1000 to give me some freedom live - which is the first all-in-one pedal I’ve found that actually responds to your playing the way tubes do - you just have to spend a bit of time programming your sounds, most of the presets as with most pedals/plugins sound like... presets. 

TBH, I haven’t come across a really bad gtr/amp sim for production work (stand alone is another story). I even use SansAmp on occasion, some just take a LOT of tweaking to get a sound to sit in a mix. I still like Guitar Rig 5 though, as ED said, there are better pure sims out there but really, as long as you get a sound that works in your mix, at the end of the day that’s all that really matters - Joe Punter isn’t going to care (or know) what you used as long as it sounds good. I couldn’t give two hoots whether I’m using a genuine plexi IR as long I like the sound I’m getting.

I still like GR5 for all the options it gives you as well as the full midi controllability all in one plugin. I do hope NI are planning on updating it at some point and if they do, for the love of god please let them make it more midi footpedal friendly!


----------



## lp59burst

Mike Fox said:


> Because 99.9% of what I compose is horror music.


Me too... although not intentionally...


----------



## SoNowWhat?

lp59burst said:


> Me too... although not intentionally...


...

...


----------



## Voider

Vovique said:


> Looks like my wish is somewhat fulfilled!
> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/guitar/session-guitarist-electric-sunburst/



Urgh, they never learn. Go away with that pattern crap, NI! I want to play my instruments myself.


----------



## StillLife

Voider said:


> Urgh, they never learn. Go away with that pattern crap, NI! I want to play my instruments myself.


Plenty of libraries for that: Orange Tree Samples, for instance. 
I think its very nice to have some patterns accompany solo playing with other libraries (or your own guitar).


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

According to the list by @syntherer on this thread, the new NI instrument TRK-01 will be in KU12.

More about that HERE


----------



## Iostream

I would be very happy to see VST3 versions of all the plugs, particularly Kontakt. I am also somewhat curious if they might include Maschine as a software only thing just from a survey that seemed to hint in that direction, though I suppose it might be stand alone, and not part of Komplete since it is different family.


----------



## Josh Richman

When is K12 expected to be released? K11 is 50% off now and 199 upgrade to K11 ultimate. Not certain if I should jump on this and upgrade to ultimate!?


----------



## Geoff Grace

I don't believe there's been an announcement of a release date for Komplete 12. Based on past experience with Native Instruments release dates, I expect it to be released sometime within the next few months following the end of this sale. I don't expect any introductory pricing or sales on the next version anytime soon. Perhaps summer 2019?

Best,

Geoff


----------



## mixtur

FYI

Here is the delta between K12 and K12U:

064 Session Guitarist - Strummed Acoustic 2
087 Symphony Essentials Woodwind Solo
088 Symphony Essentials Woodwind Ensemble
151 Skanner XT 191 RC 24
192 RC 48
209 The Mouth
212 Razor
225 Action Strikes
248 Molekular 294 Supercharger GT
295 Marble Rims
314 Session Horns Pro
325 Rise And Hit 
336 Platinum Bounce
349 Drop Squad Bundle
402 Maschine Drum Selection
405 Evolve Mutations
406 Scarbee Pre-Bass
407 Scarbee Pre-Bass Amped
408 Balinese Gamelan
414 Scarbee MM-Bass Amped
415 Scarbee Jay-Bass
417 Alicias Keys
419 Evolve Mutations 2
430 George Duke Soul Treasures
431 Scarbee Funk Guitarist
437 Damage
438 Abbey Road 60s Drummer 438 Abbey Road 60s Drummer
439 Abbey Road 70s Drummer
440 Abbey Road 80s Drummer
441 Abbey Road Modern Drummer
442 Evolve R2
444 Enhanced EQ
445 Passive EQ
446 Vari Comp
448 VC 76 FX 452 VC 160 FX
453 VC 2A FX
454 Action Strings
457 Abbey Road Vintage Drummer
469 Abbey Road 50s Drummer
546 Caribbean Current
561 Replika XT
577 Neon Drive
581 Astral Flutter
584 Golden Kingdom
599 Flesh
653 Cavern Floor
663 Kinetic Toys
668 Symphony Essentials Brass Ensemble
669 Symphony Essentials Brass Solo
670 Symphony Essentials String Ensemble
681 Lazer Dice
949 Thrill
FX4 Bite
FX5 Freak
FX6 Dirt
K02 Session Guitarist - Electric Sunburst
SE1 Symphony Essentials Percussion
X03 Byte Riot
X04 Decoded Forms


----------



## Voider

mixtur said:


> Here is the delta between K12 and K12U:



The what? What does the numbers mean, what does belong to K12 and what to K12U, and where is the source for this? Questions over questions..


----------



## C-Wave

Voider said:


> The what? What does the numbers mean, what does belong to K12 and what to K12U, and where is the source for this? Questions over questions..


Delta means difference. I think he means these are the ones in Ultimate only.


----------



## ChazC

C-Wave said:


> Delta means difference. I think he means these are the ones in Ultimate only.


Thats what I understood it to mean as well - although I'd like to know the source of the info as I havent seen any details on K12U content at all other than this post.


----------



## Glenn Broersma

ChazC said:


> Thats what I understood it to mean as well - although I'd like to know the source of the info as I havent seen any details on K12U content at all other than this post.



It's from the native instruments forums (not an official N-I post btw!) And is circling around for a couple of weeks. Some one got it out some coding so its kind of a leak in some way. And likely to be true.


----------



## GtrString

Cant wait to see what they did with Kontakt 6!!


----------



## Consona

Honestly my only wish is to be able to use Kontakt as an effect.


----------



## EvilDragon

That probably isn't happening, I don't think.


----------



## Consona

Yea, just my wish.


----------



## Voider

Do you guys think Kontakt 6 will be released along with K12 and that Symphony Essentials then will replace the orchestra samples in it?


----------



## Voider

I'd bite my ass if I purchase SE now and in 2 months it is part of Kontakt 6 :D


----------



## EvilDragon

Voider said:


> nd that Symphony Essentials then will replace the orchestra samples in it?



This is not going to happen - NI did state SE won't be a part of Komplete.


----------



## Voider

EvilDragon said:


> This is not going to happen - NI did state SE won't be a part of Komplete.



Hard to believe them imho, they need to update Kontakt 6 soon and they won't leave the same very old VSL samples in its orchestra section. What would be better than using their essential line for it?


----------



## EvilDragon

Kontakt factory library stays Kontakt factory library, methinks. What makes you so sure they won't leave the VSL samples in? They've been there since Kontakt 3.


----------



## Voider

Because they call Kontakt 5 their S_ampler Flagship_ and it must be updated at a certain point.
The samples are very dated, they don't have round robins afaik, there is no expression CC or anything via modwheel by default. It is really really old and every year one step further away from modern standards. I think it finally has reached a level where it's about time to update it, otherwise NI might become a common laughing-stock, if they keep it like that with the words _Sampler Flagship_ while everything around them makes progress except Kontakt. The gap is becoming bigger year after year.


----------



## EvilDragon

Well you might be thoroughly disappointed on that front. It is not a "must" to update as it's not really a major factor in why should someone choose Kontakt or not - factory library is not something a great majority of people are even using, soooo... There's absolutely no indication whatsoever that the factory library will be updated. After all, nobody forces you to install it - it's not directly tied to Kontakt, it's a separate install. If you buy Komplete you might as well just use whatever else comes with it instead. Factory library itself is there more for legacy reasons and to dip your toes in with some sounds than anything else. Also, something being a sampler flagship or not isn't solely defined by the strength of factory library. Quite the opposite in fact, I would say. It's features that matter, not what's bundled with it.


Also, Kontakt definitely made lots of progress in version 5 as far as features are concerned - those new features enabled lots of new cool stuff to be used for third parties in creating their own libraries. Factory library, meh. Who cares, I certainly don't. If it's gonna come down between implementing new functionality into Kontakt vs updating the factory library, I am always going to be for new functionality over the factory library update. And I'm pretty convinced NI have exactly the same stance. "Common laughin stock" over a factory library. LOL, come on. That's pretty ridiculous.


----------



## Voider

EvilDragon said:


> factory library is not something a great majority of people are even using, soooo...



This might be accurate nowadays, and then we're again looking at the reason: Because the samples are dated. Back then when they were really good and modern and justified the price of a 500 bucks expensive sampler, people for sure used them more often. That's why I think that they'd need to update..

Needing Kontakt 5 for libraries that come without a player version is a reason too, but not enough for the mainstream consumer I think. They're looking at what they get in it, since it is advertised as _sampler flagship _with the amount of GB in factory content listed, not as license. Sames goes for the new features for developers: Consumers don't see them, it's not a bonus for them.


----------



## EvilDragon

And they did, with separate libraries in Komplete, instead. That's the way it's gonna go, not by updating the factory library. If you think that Kontakt would be much cheaper if it didn't have a factory library (or that somehow price of Kontakt needs to justify the quality of factory library), think again.


----------



## Erick - BVA

syntherer said:


> Based on latest NativeAccess.xml KOMPLETE 12 includes
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> <SNPID>012 Elastic Thump
> <SNPID>085 Form
> <SNPID>090 Molten Veil
> <SNPID>095 Queensbridge Story
> <SNPID>140 Massive
> <SNPID>152 The Giant
> <SNPID>158 Drum Lab
> <SNPID>204 Reaktor Prism
> <SNPID>205 The Finger R2
> <SNPID>206 Reaktor Spark R2
> <SNPID>229 Kinetic Metal
> <SNPID>249 Battery 4
> <SNPID>250 Battery 4 Factory Library
> <SNPID>260 Supercharger
> <SNPID>269 Absynth 5
> <SNPID>275 FM8
> <SNPID>324 Kontakt Factory Library
> <SNPID>329 Halcyon Sky
> <SNPID>333 True School
> <SNPID>391 Reaktor 6
> <SNPID>413 Scarbee MM-Bass
> <SNPID>422 Scarbee Vintage Keys
> <SNPID>425 Vintage Organs
> <SNPID>433 West Africa
> <SNPID>435 Studio Drummer
> <SNPID>436 Retro Machines Mk2
> <SNPID>438 Abbey Road 60s Drummer
> <SNPID>447 Solid EQ FX
> <SNPID>449 Solid Dynamics FX
> <SNPID>450 Solid Bus Comp FX
> <SNPID>451 Transient Master FX
> <SNPID>455 Session Horns
> <SNPID>456 Monark
> <SNPID>458 Driver
> <SNPID>459 Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass
> <SNPID>471 Lucid Mission
> <SNPID>485 Komplete Kontrol
> <SNPID>486 The Maverick
> <SNPID>487 The Grandeur
> <SNPID>488 The Gentleman
> <SNPID>489 Rounds
> <SNPID>490 Polyplex
> <SNPID>491 Kontour
> <SNPID>518 Rammfire
> <SNPID>520 Reflektor
> <SNPID>523 Traktors 12
> <SNPID>525 Guitar Rig 5
> <SNPID>544 Replika
> <SNPID>568 Session Guitarist - Strummed Acoustic
> <SNPID>577 Neon Drive
> <SNPID>587 India
> <SNPID>632 Velvet Lounge
> <SNPID>635 Reaktor Blocks
> <SNPID>636 Reaktor Factory Library
> <SNPID>659 Una Corda
> <SNPID>FX0 Choral
> <SNPID>FX1 Flair
> <SNPID>FX2 Phasis
> <SNPID>K01 Middle East
> <SNPID>K03 Session Strings 2
> <SNPID>K6E Kontakt (6)
> <SNPID>MXE Massive X ???
> <SNPID>MXL Massive X Library ???
> <SNPID>NB1 Native Browser Preview Library
> <SNPID>TRK TRK-01
> <SNPID>X01 London Grit
> <SNPID>X05 Deep Matter
> 
> 
> "new" comparing to 11:
> 10 expansions (Maschine/Battery)
> Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass (Kontakt)
> Choral (FX)
> Flair (FX)
> Phasis (FX)
> Middle East (Kontakt)
> Session Strings 2 (Kontakt)
> Kontakt (6)
> Massive X
> TRK-01 (Reaktor)



If it was a leak, it may have even been planned by NI themselves (the leak), thus causing us to be pleasantly surprised when they do indeed include Thrill, Kintetic Toys and others. So they're 
just "toying" with us? One can hope. 
Honestly, if that's all that's included in KU12, then I'm not interested.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

mixtur said:


> FYI
> 
> Here is the delta between K12 and K12U:
> 
> 064 Session Guitarist - Strummed Acoustic 2
> 087 Symphony Essentials Woodwind Solo
> 088 Symphony Essentials Woodwind Ensemble
> 151 Skanner XT 191 RC 24
> 192 RC 48
> 209 The Mouth
> 212 Razor
> 225 Action Strikes
> 248 Molekular 294 Supercharger GT
> 295 Marble Rims
> 314 Session Horns Pro
> 325 Rise And Hit
> 336 Platinum Bounce
> 349 Drop Squad Bundle
> 402 Maschine Drum Selection
> 405 Evolve Mutations
> 406 Scarbee Pre-Bass
> 407 Scarbee Pre-Bass Amped
> 408 Balinese Gamelan
> 414 Scarbee MM-Bass Amped
> 415 Scarbee Jay-Bass
> 417 Alicias Keys
> 419 Evolve Mutations 2
> 430 George Duke Soul Treasures
> 431 Scarbee Funk Guitarist
> 437 Damage
> 438 Abbey Road 60s Drummer 438 Abbey Road 60s Drummer
> 439 Abbey Road 70s Drummer
> 440 Abbey Road 80s Drummer
> 441 Abbey Road Modern Drummer
> 442 Evolve R2
> 444 Enhanced EQ
> 445 Passive EQ
> 446 Vari Comp
> 448 VC 76 FX 452 VC 160 FX
> 453 VC 2A FX
> 454 Action Strings
> 457 Abbey Road Vintage Drummer
> 469 Abbey Road 50s Drummer
> 546 Caribbean Current
> 561 Replika XT
> 577 Neon Drive
> 581 Astral Flutter
> 584 Golden Kingdom
> 599 Flesh
> 653 Cavern Floor
> 663 Kinetic Toys
> 668 Symphony Essentials Brass Ensemble
> 669 Symphony Essentials Brass Solo
> 670 Symphony Essentials String Ensemble
> 681 Lazer Dice
> 949 Thrill
> FX4 Bite
> FX5 Freak
> FX6 Dirt
> K02 Session Guitarist - Electric Sunburst
> SE1 Symphony Essentials Percussion
> X03 Byte Riot
> X04 Decoded Forms



I think you left Session Strings Pro 2 out of the delta list for KU12.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Based on the information that has been traveling around this forum and others, if you have KU11, here's what you gain for upgrading to KU12. I've added the list prices, but obviously, you can get them cheaper as upgrades and during sales. 

Thrill $299
Session Strings Pro 2 $299
Symphony Essentials Percussion $99
Session Guitarist: Strummed Acoustic 2 $99
Session Guitarist: Electric Sunburst $99
TRK-01 (Creative Bass and Kick) $99
Kinetic Toys $99
Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair (Phasis was a Christmas freebie) $69
Crushpack Effects Series: Bite, Dirt, Freak $69
20 Maschine Expansions $49 each
*Included, but not yet introduced:*

Kontakt 6
Massive X and Massive X Library
Native Instruments World: Middle East


----------



## Consona

Are those guitar libraries playable or just licks and phrases as usual?


----------



## EvilDragon

Those are recorded rhythm patterns.


----------



## steveo42

I have my fingers crossed that Kontakt 6 has an improved GUI. Not in terms of functionality but in terms of size, scalability and so forth. As I age and my eyeballs aren't what they used to be it's getting more difficult to see the minuscule text in the Kontakt GUI. BTW I took the bait and upgraded from Kontakt to Komplete Ultimate during the recent 50% sale. I had some ancient Steven Slate Drums in my account that gave me an excellent discount to Ultimate. It was a great deal for me and I'm quite satisfied, but a bit overwhelmed !! Hahahha!


----------



## BezO

syntherer said:


> *TigerTheFrog*, you can explore, which products are included in K12U. More 10 expansions (20 total), 3 new FX - Bite, Freak and Dirt, Session Strings Pro 2 and everything you mentioned.


Thanks! All 3 products I'm looking to add: Session Guitarist - Electric Sunburst, Session Strings Pro 2 & Thrill. Sweet!

Can anyone provide an educated guess on upgrade price from 11U to 12U? Do they typically generate upgrade sales with initial discounts or later?

Using my vouchers & taking advantage of current 50% update discounts:
Session Guitarist - Electric Sunburst - $75 (100-25)
Session Strings Pro 2 - $149 ($300/50% off)
Thrill - $275 (300-25)
Total - $500

Any chance I could upgrade for less than $500 in the next 3 months? Though there is plenty more in the update, even a few dollars more for things I'll likely never use makes little sense.

*Edit: *Should've kept reading. Regular price upgrade upon releases likely to be $400? No brainer for me except for the indefinite release date.


----------



## Mike Fox

TigerTheFrog said:


> Based on the information that has been traveling around this forum and others, if you have KU11, here's what you gain for upgrading to KU12:
> 
> Thrill
> Session Strings Pro 2
> Symphony Essentials Percussion
> Session Guitarist: Strummed Acoustic 2
> Session Guitarist: Electric Sunburst
> TRK-01 (Creative Bass and Kick)
> Kinetic Toys
> Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair (Phasis was a Christmas freebie)
> 20 Expansions
> *Included, but not yet introduced:*
> 
> Kontakt 6
> Massive X and Massive X Library
> Native Instruments World: Middle East
> FX: Bite, Freak, Dirt
> Did I leave anything out?


Looks good to me!

I have KU10, but purposely skipped 11. Due to Thrill being on the list, I'll definitely be upgrading to 12.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

How do you guys know Thrill will be on the list, I don't see anything announced from NI.


----------



## Sunny Fable

BezO said:


> Thanks! All 3 products I'm looking to add: Session Guitarist - Electric Sunburst, Session Strings Pro 2 & Thrill. Sweet!
> 
> Can anyone provide an educated guess on upgrade price from 11U to 12U? Do they typically generate upgrade sales with initial discounts or later?
> 
> Using my vouchers & taking advantage of current 50% update discounts:
> Session Guitarist - Electric Sunburst - $75 (100-25)
> Session Strings Pro 2 - $149 ($300/50% off)
> Thrill - $275 (300-25)
> Total - $500
> 
> Any chance I could upgrade for less than $500 in the next 3 months? Though there is plenty more in the update, even a few dollars more for things I'll likely never use makes little sense.
> 
> *Edit: *Should've kept reading. Regular price upgrade upon releases likely to be $400? No brainer for me except for the indefinite release date.



No discount on release. So far, they made a 50% sale on upgrade a couple of months later. (Release on fall, sale on spring).


----------



## Iostream

Voider said:


> This might be accurate nowadays, and then we're again looking at the reason: Because the samples are dated. Back then when they were really good and modern and justified the price of a 500 bucks expensive sampler, people for sure used them more often. That's why I think that they'd need to update..
> 
> Needing Kontakt 5 for libraries that come without a player version is a reason too, but not enough for the mainstream consumer I think. They're looking at what they get in it, since it is advertised as _sampler flagship _with the amount of GB in factory content listed, not as license. Sames goes for the new features for developers: Consumers don't see them, it's not a bonus for them.



I would be curious to see how many customers are purchasing Kontakt as a stand alone, and not just going for Komplete. Kontakt itself is $400 and Komplete is $600, seems most people would just go to Komplete for what all it gives you. As for spending that much on a top of the line sampler with a mostly crap library, that is nothing compared to spending $2K+ on a hardware sampler that came with a completely useless and tiny library, and expansion options for FX cost more. Flagships were much more expensive than that. We are pretty spoiled these days. I don't care if they touch the factory library again. New features are much more important to me.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

I will wait for the first half-price sale to upgrade. Hopefully, that will be no later than the summer of 2019. 

I expect Komplete 12 will be out by September.


----------



## Sunny Fable

Iostream said:


> I would be curious to see how many customers are purchasing Kontakt as a stand alone, and not just going for Komplete. Kontakt itself is $400 and Komplete is $600, seems most people would just go to Komplete for what all it gives you. As for spending that much on a top of the line sampler with a mostly crap library, that is nothing compared to spending $2K+ on a hardware sampler that came with a completely useless and tiny library, and expansion options for FX cost more. Flagships were much more expensive than that. We are pretty spoiled these days. I don't care if they touch the factory library again. New features are much more important to me.



No reason to update the factory library. People gets Kontakt for the plethora of third-party libraries.


----------



## Voider

Iostream said:


> I would be curious to see how many customers are purchasing Kontakt as a stand alone, and not just going for Komplete. Kontakt itself is $400 and Komplete is $600, seems most people would just go to Komplete for what all it gives you. As for spending that much on a top of the line sampler with a mostly crap library, that is nothing compared to spending $2K+ on a hardware sampler that came with a completely useless and tiny library, and expansion options for FX cost more. Flagships were much more expensive than that. We are pretty spoiled these days. I don't care if they touch the factory library again. New features are much more important to me.



*rises hand*

I bought Kontakt 5 standalone on a 50% crossgrade sale, did cost me only 125€. I struggle to buy K11 because there is so much stuff inside that I don't need or will ever use. Maybe 1-2 synthesizers I am interested in, two of the pianos and the Replika TX delay. Sure, that alone would be enough to justify to crossgrade now for 200€, but then again, it somehow buggs me to get so much stuff that I don't want to have. It makes the purchase feel like a bad investment simply because of this _empty value_.

I still wish - like many others - that NI one day lets us build our own smaller bundles or something, so that we can actually only choose what we need for a smaller price.



Sunny Fable said:


> No reason to update the factory library. People gets Kontakt for the plethora of third-party libraries.



That's not true. I wouldn't have purchased Kontakt 5 if it came without any content library, not even for the 125€ mentioned above. The samples in it justified the purchase for me. I would though not have spend more than 125€ with the current dated quality of the samples but for that price it was okay. There are plenty of great player libraries out there and more developers try to give that option, even if it's just afterwards.


----------



## Henu

Sunny Fable said:


> No reason to update the factory library. People gets Kontakt for the plethora of third-party libraries.



You have no idea how many times the factory library has saved my ass.  Just today, I used the steel drums patch at work!


----------



## Voider

Henu said:


> You have no idea how many times the factory library has saved my ass.  Just today, I used the steel drums patch at work!



And still, the samples is something they advertise it with, and still they use the term "sampler flagship". When they released the Kontakt version with all the current included factory content back then, that stuff was pretty fresh and modern. You never read anywhere that Kontakt 5 is mainly just a license that you buy, they obviously were very proud of the sampled content. And they must (and will, I bet on that) some day update the factory content, because it becomes more dated with every year passing. And by now, it's already far away from modern standards. As I stated earlier, the orchestra patches not even have something like expression on the modwheel.

I still love the content, it's great to practice, with layering it can even work fine in more modern sounding compositions and if you make only use of the included factory, like writing an orchestra piece, it fits even better together. But nonetheless it's dated and will need an update, as long as Kontakt 5 is advertised and seen as their sampler flagship by NI themselves.


----------



## Henu

Yep, on that I agree and see your point!


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

NI has released the Crush Pack FX series, so I've updated my list of the new stuff you get when you upgrade from KU11 to KU12. I've added the list prices, but many of these are available as crossgrades from KU11.

There are now only two (or maybe three) libraries they haven't introduced yet, and as it is only June, I think they are on target for August/September release of KU12.

Thrill $299
Session Strings Pro 2 $299
Symphony Essentials Percussion $99
Session Guitarist: Strummed Acoustic 2 $99
Session Guitarist: Electric Sunburst $99
TRK-01 (Creative Bass and Kick) $99
Kinetic Toys $99
Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair (Phasis was a Christmas freebie) $69
Crushpack Effects Series: Bite, Dirt, Freak $69
20 Maschine Expansions $49 each
*Not yet introduced:*

Massive X and Massive X Library
Native Instruments World: Middle East


Kontakt 6? [Unlikely to be ready anytime soon]


----------



## EvilDragon

Kontakt 6 is not even in beta yet. Betas for such a major release aren't supposed to last just a month, or a two, or three. It's usually a longer process. Who knows, though.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

EvilDragon said:


> Kontakt 6 is not even in beta yet. Betas for such a major release aren't supposed to last just a month, or a two, or three. It's usually a longer process. Who knows, though.


Perhaps, despite reports, Kontakt 6 won't be in Komplete 12. Aside from that, they seem almost ready to go. 

There would be a certain economic logic to releasing Komplete 12 in the fall and then coming out with the Kontakt update in the summer of 2019--or whenever it is ready. It's an upgrade a lot of people would buy pretty quickly even if they don't have Komplete or don't update Komplete often. Maybe when it comes out it will be free for Komplete owners?


----------



## Sunny Fable

TigerTheFrog said:


> Perhaps, despite reports, Kontakt 6 won't be in Komplete 12. Aside from that, they seem almost ready to go.
> 
> There would be a certain economic logic to releasing Komplete 12 in the fall and then coming out with the Kontakt update in the summer of 2019--or whenever it is ready. It's an upgrade a lot of people would buy pretty quickly even if they don't have Komplete or don't update Komplete often. Maybe when it comes out it will be free for Komplete owners?


Highly unlikely. When they released Reaktor 6, it was included in the next Komplete.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

*If the information found in the nativeaccess.html file is correct, here's my update on what you get if you update from Komplete 11 to Komplete 12:*


Session Strings 2 $99
Native Instruments Discovery Series: Middle East $99
Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass $99
TRK-01 (Reaktor) $99
Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair $69
10 Maschine Expansions and Battery Kits (plus Massive and Monark presets)
Deep Matter, Elastic Thump, Halycon Sky, London Grit, Lucid Mission, Molten Veil, Neon Drive, Queensbridge Story, True School, Velvet Lounge $49 each
*Not yet introduced:*
Massive X and Massive X Library
Kontakt 6?


*And from Komplete Ultimate 11 to Komplete Ultimate 12*

Thrill $299
Session Strings Pro 2 $299
Native Instruments Discovery Series: Middle East $99

Symphony Essentials Percussion $99
Session Guitarist: Strummed Acoustic 2 $99
Session Guitarist: Electric Sunburst $99
TRK-01 (Reaktor) $99
Kinetic Toys $99
Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair $69
Crushpack Effects Series: Bite, Dirt, Freak $69
20 Maschine Expansions & Battery Kits (plus presets for Massive, Monark, Prism, etc.)
Astral Flutter, Byte Riot, Caribbean Current, Cavern Floor, Decoded Forms, Deep Matter, Drop Squad, Elastic Thump, Golden Kingdom, Halycon Sky, Lazer Dice, London Grit, Lucid Mission, Marble Rims, Molten Veil, Neon Drive, Platinum Bounce, Queensbridge Story, True School, Velvet Lounge $49 each
*Not yet introduced:*

Massive X and Massive X Library
Kontakt 6?


----------



## ChazC

If that list is correct I think my KU9 might very well be getting an update this time around!


----------



## pderbidge

TigerTheFrog said:


> *Here's my update on what you get if you update from Komplete 11 to Komplete 12:*
> 
> 
> Session Strings 2 $99
> Native Instruments Discovery Series: Middle East $99
> Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass $99
> TRK-01 (Creative Bass and Kick) $99
> Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair (Phasis was a Christmas freebie) $69
> 10 Maschine Expansions $49 each
> *Not yet introduced:*
> Massive X and Massive X Library
> Kontakt 6?
> 
> 
> *And from Komplete Ultimate 11 to Komplete Ultimate 12*
> 
> Thrill $299
> Session Strings Pro 2 $299
> Native Instruments Discovery Series: Middle East $99
> 
> Symphony Essentials Percussion $99
> Session Guitarist: Strummed Acoustic 2 $99
> Session Guitarist: Electric Sunburst $99
> TRK-01 (Creative Bass and Kick) $99
> Kinetic Toys $99
> Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair (Phasis was a Christmas freebie) $69
> Crushpack Effects Series: Bite, Dirt, Freak $69
> 20 Maschine Expansions $49 each
> *Not yet introduced:*
> 
> Massive X and Massive X Library
> Kontakt 6?



Not sure that all of this will be included based on past experience. For example, when Strummed Acoustics 2 came out it was just before 11, I think, and it was not included in Ultimate. Same with Session Strings Pro. It used to be standard Session Strings in Ultimate and only when 11 was released then Session Strings Pro was included and Session Strings was moved down to K11. Based on this history, "I think" that the newer, more coveted, libraries such as Thrill, Session Strings pro 2 and Session Guitarist: Electric Sunburst, will not be in K12U. The only newer libs that I think might be the exception to that rule are Symphony Series Essentials Percussion (because it makes sense to complete the package) and maybe the discovery series stuff. So here is what I think "will" be added in K12U for sure.


Symphony Essentials Percussion $99
Session Guitarist: Strummed Acoustic 2 $99
TRK-01 (Creative Bass and Kick) $99
Kinetic Toys $99
Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair (Phasis was a Christmas freebie) $69
Crushpack Effects Series: Bite, Dirt, Freak $69
I'm not 100% sure on TRK-01being added but I'm also not sure that it's an enticing enough library to sell on it's own so adding it to K12 makes sense for the sake of saying "Look at all this content we have" type of thing.
Massive X in my opinion will not be in there. They will want to capitalize on sales first before adding it.

Just my two cents.


----------



## Sunny Fable

pderbidge said:


> Not sure that all of this will be included based on past experience. For example, when Strummed Acoustics 2 came out it was just before 11, I think, and it was not included in Ultimate. Same with Session Strings Pro. It used to be standard Session Strings in Ultimate and only when 11 was released then Session Strings Pro was included and Session Strings was moved down to K11. Based on this history, "I think" that the newer, more coveted, libraries such as Thrill, Session Strings pro 2 and Session Guitarist: Electric Sunburst, will not be in K12U. The only newer libs that I think might be the exception to that rule are Symphony Series Essentials Percussion (because it makes sense to complete the package) and maybe the discovery series stuff. So here is what I think "will" be added in K12U for sure.
> 
> 
> Symphony Essentials Percussion $99
> Session Guitarist: Strummed Acoustic 2 $99
> TRK-01 (Creative Bass and Kick) $99
> Kinetic Toys $99
> Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair (Phasis was a Christmas freebie) $69
> Crushpack Effects Series: Bite, Dirt, Freak $69
> I'm not 100% sure on TRK-01being added but I'm also not sure that it's an enticing enough library to sell on it's own so adding it to K12 makes sense for the sake of saying "Look at all this content we have" type of thing.
> Massive X in my opinion will not be in there. They will want to capitalize on sales first before adding it.
> 
> Just my two cents.


Komplete Ultimate usually includes all the releases since the previous version. As far as I know, the only exception was last time with the Symphony Series with an Essential version instead of the full version. Your list makes KU12 not very enticing, since the price of the upgrade (usually 400$) is almost the same as the total cost of your list.


----------



## pderbidge

Then I'm sorry to burst everyone's bubble. I hope I'm wrong but your statement about Komplete ultimate including all previous releases I don't believe is accurate. For example: SSPro was released in 2011. K10U was released in 2014. Guess what wasn't included in K10U? But it did have Standard version of SS. Just saying but I do hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Sunny Fable

pderbidge said:


> Then I'm sorry to burst everyone's bubble. I hope I'm wrong but your statement about Komplete ultimate including all previous releases I don't believe is accurate. For example: SSPro was released in 2011. K10U was released in 2014. Guess what wasn't included in K10U? But it did have Standard version of SS. Just saying but I do hope I'm wrong.


Based on this thread, there's a link to Komplete lists comparisons over time:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=378985


----------



## pderbidge

Yes, previous products from NI eventually make their way into Komplete but not always right away. I'm starting to feel like I just called somebody's baby ugly


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

pderbidge said:


> Not sure that all of this will be included based on past experience. For example, when Strummed Acoustics 2 came out it was just before 11, I think, and it was not included in Ultimate. Same with Session Strings Pro. It used to be standard Session Strings in Ultimate and only when 11 was released then Session Strings Pro was included and Session Strings was moved down to K11. Based on this history, "I think" that the newer, more coveted, libraries such as Thrill, Session Strings pro 2 and Session Guitarist: Electric Sunburst, will not be in K12U. The only newer libs that I think might be the exception to that rule are Symphony Series Essentials Percussion (because it makes sense to complete the package) and maybe the discovery series stuff. So here is what I think "will" be added in K12U for sure.
> 
> 
> Symphony Essentials Percussion $99
> Session Guitarist: Strummed Acoustic 2 $99
> TRK-01 (Creative Bass and Kick) $99
> Kinetic Toys $99
> Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair (Phasis was a Christmas freebie) $69
> Crushpack Effects Series: Bite, Dirt, Freak $69
> I'm not 100% sure on TRK-01being added but I'm also not sure that it's an enticing enough library to sell on it's own so adding it to K12 makes sense for the sake of saying "Look at all this content we have" type of thing.
> Massive X in my opinion will not be in there. They will want to capitalize on sales first before adding it.
> 
> Just my two cents.



If you've been following this thread from the beginning, you'd know that nothing on this list is based on my opinion or guesswork. It's what has come out from the information found in the NativeAccess.xml file, which was written about by @syntherer in this thread some time ago and discussed on the NI forum and other forums. If we can believe it, NI inadvertently spilled the beans on K12 through this file. The file very specifically lays out what will be includued in Komplete 12 and what will be in Komplete Ultimate 12. Many of the instruments on the list had not been released when the contents of this file started making the rounds.

All I've done is look at those long lists of included products and show what is new this year. 

The as yet unreleased Massive X and library are on the list for both regular Komplete and Ultimate. However, the .xml file says that Kontakt 6 will be included and @EvilDragon says it's not even in beta yet.

I have no idea whether the NativeAccess.xml file is the final answer to what will be in Komplete 12. But I think it's likely true. I think Massive X is going to be released within a month or so and Komplete 12 will be out by September. I have my doubts about Kontakt 6 being in it, but who knows?


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Also, my memory is that when Komplete 11 came out in the fall of 2016, Komplete Ultimate had _everything_ in the NI store up to the day of its release, except for the full Symphony series and the expansions. (They made it clear at the time that the full symphony series would never be included in Komplete.) 

After that, NI slowly started releasing stuff like Strummed Acoustic 2, Thrill, etc. It took them quite awhile to roll out more libraries. The last few months have been a flood compared to the last two years. If very few of those libraries are going to be in KU12, what exactly would persuade people to pay $400 to get the upgrade?


----------



## pderbidge

TigerTheFrog said:


> If you've been following this thread from the beginning, you'd know that nothing on this list is based on my opinion or guesswork. It's what has come out from the information found in the NativeAccess.xml file, which was written about by @syntherer in this thread some time ago and discussed on the NI forum and other forums. If we can believe it, NI inadvertently spilled the beans on K12 through this file. The file very specifically lays out what will be includued in Komplete 12 and what will be in Komplete Ultimate 12. Many of the instruments on the list had not been released when the contents of this file started making the rounds.
> 
> All I've done is look at those long lists of included products and show what is new this year.
> 
> The as yet unreleased Massive X and library are on the list for both regular Komplete and Ultimate. However, the .xml file says that Kontakt 6 will be included and @EvilDragon says it's not even in beta yet.
> 
> I have no idea whether the NativeAccess.xml file is the final answer to what will be in Komplete 12. But I think it's likely true. I think Massive X is going to be released within a month or so and Komplete 12 will be out by September. I have my doubts about Kontakt 6 being in it, but who knows?



I have been following this thread from the beginning and with interest. I'm not accusing you or anyone of guesswork or speculation but just saying our assumption that those .xml files are indicative as to what will be in K12 and K12U may not be the case. I'm just basing this on my past observations. But hey, if there is anything I wouldn't mind being wrong about, it would be this plus I'm sure NI and everyone else in this business are constantly looking for ways to change the game and in and effort to stay on top and continue to grow this would certainly be a way to do it. A lot of people would certainly be enticed to upgrade as well as encourage newcomers to jump on board so I hope those .xml files are actually indicative of what's to come.


----------



## Mornats

pderbidge said:


> Then I'm sorry to burst everyone's bubble. I hope I'm wrong but your statement about Komplete ultimate including all previous releases I don't believe is accurate. For example: SSPro was released in 2011. K10U was released in 2014. Guess what wasn't included in K10U? But it did have Standard version of SS. Just saying but I do hope I'm wrong.



I've got K10U and it came with both session strings and session strings pro (and the brass versions too).


----------



## pderbidge

Mornats said:


> I've got K10U and it came with both session strings and session strings pro (and the brass versions too).


I stand corrected, I meant Session Horns Pro, not SS. I thought that SH Pro was the one that didn't get added to Ultimate til version 11 but in looking at the manual for V10 it was included so I must have been thinking of v9. I just remember that one of the reasons I eventually jumped to ultimate was to get SHPro and in the first offer I had from NI it wasn't there yet. Not sure why I was thinking SSPro. In that case "maybe" I'm wrong to be skeptical.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Session Horns Pro was released as a separate product in May 2014 and was included in Komplete 10 when it came out in October 2014. 

This has no bearing on what will be in Komplete 12, of course. You may be right, the .html may be wrong. 

I just find the list on that file to be so odd that it sounds like the real deal. Why take Rickenbacker Bass from Komplete Ultimate 11 and move it into Komplete 12? Why just that one and no others? Weird. Why the inclusion of so many expansions? These are not things I would have come up with if I was prognosticating, which was the reason I started this thread so long ago. And of course, I wouldn't have guessed about libraries like Session Strings Pro 2, Discovery Middle East, TRK-01, Bite, Dirt, Freak (and maybe Massive X) that hadn't come out yet. 

These libraries are now in the store at the time when other libraries, like Session Horns Pro, were released prior to a fall Komplete release. It's not necessarily true that it will play out this way, but it's certainly within the realm of possibility.


----------



## GearNostalgia

steveo42 said:


> I have my fingers crossed that Kontakt 6 has an improved GUI. Not in terms of functionality but in terms of size, scalability and so forth. As I age and my eyeballs aren't what they used to be it's getting more difficult to see the minuscule text in the Kontakt GUI. BTW I took the bait and upgraded from Kontakt to Komplete Ultimate during the recent 50% sale. I had some ancient Steven Slate Drums in my account that gave me an excellent discount to Ultimate. It was a great deal for me and I'm quite satisfied, but a bit overwhelmed !! Hahahha!



I know the feeling. I solved it last year by buying a cheap 40 inch TV as monitor for my music making.


----------



## Lode_Runner

Wow, they're really on a releasing spree at the moment. Middle East looks good. 

Will definitely be upgrading to K12U from K10U, with the big draws for me being Middle East, India, Thrill, Strummed 1 and 2 and Electric Sunburst and Session Strings Pro 2.


----------



## muziksculp

Hopefully *K12U* will include *Kontakt 6* , If Kontakt 6 is not ready, I don't mind waiting for it to be ready, and released as part of K12U. Maybe during the Fall.


----------



## EvilDragon

Maybe next year because K6 is not in beta yet...


----------



## muziksculp

EvilDragon said:


> Maybe next year because K6 is not in beta yet...



WTF are NI doing to Kontakt 6 ?


----------



## EvilDragon

It remains to be seen.

It's a very old codebase by now (over 15 years). Any larger change is quite tricky to make, so things take more time than they usually would. Refactoring everything from scratch is absolutely not an option.


----------



## muziksculp

EvilDragon said:


> It remains to be seen.
> 
> It's a very old codebase by now (over 15 years). Any larger change is quite tricky to make, so things take more time than they usually would. Refactoring everything from scratch is absolutely not an option.



Do you know how long NI has been working on developing Kontakt 6 ?


----------



## muziksculp

EvilDragon said:


> Refactoring everything from scratch is absolutely not an option



Sometimes that's the only wise option. 

Other options could just make things more complicated to debug, and compromise stability. 

Anyways.. I hope they start beta testing it soon (maybe they already have, but you don't know about it), there are certain things you might not be aware of if you are not a full time official NI employee.


----------



## EvilDragon

muziksculp said:


> Sometimes that's the only wise option.



Not when you have a 6-figure number of users and a million of scenarios where it can all go wrong, it's not.


----------



## pixel

I'm curious about Massive X. Old Massive is my favorite for sound design / sfx. I hope Massive X is the new bigger and 'game-changing' beast like it was with older one.
Additional library makes me think that it may be just sample library player which, if it's true will be a huge disappointment for me.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

pixel said:


> I'm curious about Massive X. Old Massive is my favorite for sound design / sfx. I hope Massive X is the new bigger and 'game-changing' beast like it was with older one.
> Additional library makes me think that it may be just sample library player which, if it's true will be a huge disappointment for me.



I doubt that Massive X will be a sample library player. Perhaps there will be sampled sounds available to select as oscillators. But "additional library" could just mean a huge library of presets to go with the new synth. As with Synthmaster One and Synthmaster, Massive patches may not work in Massive X.


----------



## pixel

TigerTheFrog said:


> I doubt that Massive X will be a sample library player. Perhaps there will be sampled sounds available to select as oscillators. But "additional library" could just mean a huge library of presets to go with the new synth. As with Synthmaster One and Synthmaster, Massive patches may not work in Massive X.


That would be great!


----------



## muziksculp

I'm also thinking that NI besides working on *Kontakt 6* re-design, new features, GUI, ..etc. they might have to re-code a lot of it to move it up from VST 2.4 (Which is no longer supported by Steinberg), to the most current version of *VST 3*.xx Which could explain the long time they would need to release Kontakt 6.


----------



## vintagevibe

pderbidge said:


> For example, when Strummed Acoustics 2 came out it was just before 11, I think, and it was not included in Ultimate.



I got Strummed Acoustic 2 with 11 Ultimate.


----------



## Nao Gam

vintagevibe said:


> I got Strummed Acoustic 2 with 11 Ultimate.


You might need to double check m8 cause I bought it days ago and I have native access open rn and it's not there


----------



## zadillo

vintagevibe said:


> I got Strummed Acoustic 2 with 11 Ultimate.



Strummed Acoustic comes with Komplete Ultimate 11. Strummed Acoustic 2 does not


----------



## pderbidge

zadillo said:


> Strummed Acoustic comes with Komplete Ultimate 11. Strummed Acoustic 2 does not


The good news is I was wrong about the release dates. SA2 came out after K11 and not before so chances are had it come out first it might have been included. If that's the case then K12U is looking pretty good.


----------



## Raphioli

K12 has stuff I'm interested in, thus thinking of upgrading when K12 gets released. (K11 wasn't appealing to me personally)
But I do have a concern. 

I'm currently using K9U.
K11U currently is upgradable/updatable from K8 and above.
Do you think K9U will stay in the "updatable/upgradable" versions when K12 gets released?
Because I wouldn't want to re-purchase the whole thing again.


----------



## ChazC

Raphioli said:


> K12 has stuff I'm interested in, thus thinking of upgrading when K12 gets released. (K11 wasn't appealing to me personally)
> But I do have a concern.
> 
> I'm currently using K9U.
> K11U currently is upgradable/updatable from K8 and above.
> Do you think K9U will stay in the "updatable/upgradable" versions when K12 gets released?
> Because I wouldn't want to re-purchase the whole thing again.



I’m in the same boat - haven’t upgraded since K9U. As far as I’m aware version 8 was the first Ultimate version released and the upgrade policy has always been a flat price regardless of previous Ultimate version owned. I’m guessing they just did it that way for ease. 

At some point I’m quite sure they’ll introduce a tiered upgrade system though - just hope it isn’t this time around as I’m planning on upgrading for the first time myself!


----------



## zadillo

"This special offer is valid from July 2 to September 5, 2018 "

That's the timeframe for the current Komplete 20% off sale. Possibly a hint at when to expect 12


----------



## StefanE

Probably I will be the only one who is going to buy KU12 anyhow, as I did with every other release since I started with K2... Thing which will not make it into KU12 I will take with KU13.


----------



## Iostream

EvilDragon said:


> Maybe next year because K6 is not in beta yet...



Didn't they include an updated license for Kontakt a few releases ago, even though it wasn't ready? So when it was ready, people who bought the new komplete got rights to install the upgrade? I might be wrong, but I was pretty sure they did that at some point, shipped komplete with a product update that came a couple of months later.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Iostream said:


> Didn't they include an updated license for Kontakt a few releases ago, even though it wasn't ready? So when it was ready, people who bought the new komplete got rights to install the upgrade? I might be wrong, but I was pretty sure they did that at some point, shipped komplete with a product update that came a couple of months later.


I don't know about that, but I believe that Massive X will come out this summer and Komplete 12 will be out by October at the latest.


----------



## sostenuto

Now on K11U. Really concerned if Session Strings Pro 2 will be part of K12U. 
Want this, but not time-critical. $149. can be used effectively now for other options.
Are there any insights on this ??


----------



## Iostream

sostenuto said:


> Now on K11U. Really concerned if Session Strings Pro 2 will be part of K12U.
> Want this, but not time-critical. $149. can be used effectively now for other options.
> Are there any insights on this ??



I recall hearing that it specifically wouldn't. But I wouldn't bet my money on it either. I would say, given how close we should be to a K12 release, that it is best to wait and see.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

sostenuto said:


> Now on K11U. Really concerned if Session Strings Pro 2 will be part of K12U.
> Want this, but not time-critical. $149. can be used effectively now for other options.
> Are there any insights on this ??


If you believe what's been posted all over the web, that an early release of a nativeaccess.html file tells what will be in Komplete 12 as I have tracked earlier in this thread, then yes, it will be included. But that's if you believe these rumors.

BUT... the leak came out before many libraries were released, like the Middle East one, so it is definitely predictive of what's coming up, although not necessarily about K12 or KU12. The only thing from this list we are waiting for at this point is Massive X. My educated guess is that Massive X will come out soon and Komplete 12 will come out in the fall. And Ultimate will include everything that has been released before, because that's the way it has worked in the past.


----------



## sostenuto

TigerTheFrog said:


> If you believe what's been posted all over the web, that an early release of a nativeaccess.html file tells what will be in Komplete 12 as I have tracked earlier in this thread, then yes, it will be included. But that's if you believe these rumors.
> 
> BUT... the leak came out before many libraries were released, like the Middle East one, so it is definitely predictive of what's coming up, although not necessarily about K12 or KU12. The only thing from this list we are waiting for at this point is Massive X. My educated guess is that Massive X will come out soon and Komplete 12 will come out in the fall. And Ultimate will include everything that has been released before, because that's the way it has worked in the past.



THX for this !! I know these things are variable, but it helps to have some sense of what is best sense from those who track closely. Already having SS Pro in K11U, and all Discovery Series (other than Middle East), waiting for K12U release seems best.

Tried call NI in L.A. minutes ago to double check on scenario if SS Pro2 and Middle East are purchased NOW and then included in K12U release _ WITHIN 90-DAYS. Nobody there, but can try next week. Isn't there a policy covering this, which would allow for NI credit if this occurs? 

I appreciate the follow-up


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

sostenuto said:


> THX for this !! I know these things are variable, but it helps to have some sense of what is best sense from those who track closely. Already having SS Pro in K11U, and all Discovery Series (other than Middle East), waiting for K12U release seems best.
> 
> Tried call NI in L.A. minutes ago to double check on scenario if SS Pro2 and Middle East are purchased NOW and then included in K12U release _ WITHIN 90-DAYS. Nobody there, but can try next week. Isn't there a policy covering this, which would allow for NI credit if this occurs?
> 
> I appreciate the follow-up



FYI, Session Strings Pro 2 is not in K11U. It just came out a few months ago, in May. K11U came out in 2016, with the original version of Session Strings Pro. I haven't heard that you can buy separate NI libraries before upgrading to Ultimate and get any kind of credit. That would be sweet if true. I would buy Discovery Middle East if that was the case. But I doubt it.


----------



## Mucusman

TigerTheFrog said:


> I haven't heard that you can buy separate NI libraries before upgrading to Ultimate and get any kind of credit.



No, but you could re-sell that individual library, since you have a separate license for it.


----------



## pderbidge

Mucusman said:


> No, but you could re-sell that individual library, since you have a separate license for it.


This is true. I did this with a couple of libs when I upgraded to Ultimate, with NI's permission as you'll need them to transfer the licenses to the buyer for you.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Just as was predicted many months ago in the nativeaccess.html file, NI has introduced expansion packs for MASSIVE. But they were also supposed to release Massive X. In fact, these packs were referred to as "The Massive X Library." It seems like that's not happening now, particularly because they're selling Massive at 50% off now.

If so, then NI has released all the other instruments in the nativeaccess.html file. There's nothing to stop them from announcing the release of Komplete 12 soon.

If you believe the rumors, that is. 

*New from Komplete 11 to Komplete 12
*

Kontakt 6  $99 upgrade
Massive X No price yet
Session Strings 2 $99
Native Instruments Discovery Series: Middle East $99
Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass $99
TRK-01 (Reaktor) $99
Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair $69
10 Maschine Expansions and Battery Kits (plus Massive and Monark presets)
Deep Matter, Elastic Thump, Halycon Sky, London Grit, Lucid Mission, Molten Veil, Neon Drive, Queensbridge Story, True School, Velvet Lounge $49 each
Massive Expansions Stadium Flex, Nocturnal State, and Spectrum Quake $59


*New from Komplete Ultimate 11 to Komplete Ultimate 12
*

Kontakt 6 $99 upgrade
Massive X No price yet
Thrill $299
Session Strings Pro 2 $299 (update $149)
Native Instruments Discovery Series: Middle East $99
Symphony Essentials Percussion $99
Session Guitarist: Strummed Acoustic 2 $99
Session Guitarist: Electric Sunburst $99
TRK-01 (Reaktor) $99
Kinetic Toys $99
Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair $69
Crushpack Effects Series: Bite, Dirt, Freak $69
20 Maschine Expansions & Battery Kits (plus presets for Massive, Monark, Prism, etc.)
Astral Flutter, Byte Riot, Caribbean Current, Cavern Floor, Decoded Forms, Deep Matter, Drop Squad, Elastic Thump, Golden Kingdom, Halycon Sky, Lazer Dice, London Grit, Lucid Mission, Marble Rims, Molten Veil, Neon Drive, Platinum Bounce, Queensbridge Story, True School, Velvet Lounge $49 each
Massive Expansions: Stadium Flex, Nocturnal State, and Spectrum Quake $59


----------



## Mornats

Just saw this on a retailer's Facebook page. Looks like Komplete 12 has been announced along with the S88mkii and new A series keyboards.


----------



## Mornats

Just noticed the K12 pic. Two versions of Ultimate? Interesting...


----------



## zadillo

Wow, they leaked everything


----------



## zadillo

Mornats said:


> Just noticed the K12 pic. Two versions of Ultimate? Interesting...



Maybe one version of Ultimate that also includes the full Symphony Series?


----------



## Mornats

The new A series keyboards look like the S series but seem to lack the displays.


----------



## Mornats

S88mkii


----------



## LoveEnigma

My first post here, and will start by showing some gratitude for all the photos above. Thank you! 

Looks like Native Instruments website will be refreshed shortly with the new stuff, as Komplete bundles (and other stuff that will be upgraded) have been taken off now. There are occasionally appearing on the front page, but when you click on it you won't land on that page.


----------



## Nao Gam

Soo glad I got to the last komplete sale just in time before the new reveal


----------



## GtrString

What about Guitar Rig 6? Guitar Rig 5 is now 7 years old. It feels like NI have abandoned the product, just like they did with Absynth and FM8. When does old get old.


----------



## Xilef

GtrString said:


> What about Guitar Rig 6? Guitar Rig 5 is now 7 years old. It feels like NI have abandoned the product, just like they did with Absynth and FM8. When does old get old.



That would be one of the reasons for me to upgrade!


----------



## LoveEnigma

Here you go:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/for-the-music-in-you/


----------



## Mornats

K12U collectors edition is the new one. It does seem to include the full symphony series.

Also, Massive X, the update to Massive is due February 2019 and K12 users will get it for free.


----------



## Mornats

Coincidentally, it's my birthday tomorrrow so perfect timing


----------



## N.Caffrey

finally!!


----------



## LoveEnigma

Mornats said:


> Coincidentally, it's my birthday tomorrrow so perfect timing



Happy birthday in advance. Gift yourself something from the newly released stuff.


----------



## J-M

Hmm...maybe it's time to upgrade to KU12 when it's 50% off. I'm not in a hurry...


----------



## Alex Fraser

It's the blurry thumbnail of Massive X enlarged


----------



## bosone

finally!!! will definitely update to K12U from K10U.. when it will be 50% off ? :D


----------



## N.Caffrey

could we expect some discount on black friday? I have komplete 8, so I'm eligible for discount already, but I'm wondering if I should hold off.


----------



## LoveEnigma

N.Caffrey said:


> could we expect some discount on black friday? I have komplete 8, so I'm eligible for discount already, but I'm wondering if I should hold off.



I doubt we will get 50% off updates/upgrades so soon. Might have to wait until next Summer of Sound sale I believe. I will be happy if I am proven wrong by NI this Black Friday.


----------



## Pablocrespo

Please NI I want the "A0" just the top part of the a25 without the keys. please please please


----------



## MartinH.

Hmm, seems like I could have gotten the symphony series collection as part of the komplete ultimate collectors edition for the same price that I paid if I had waited for the next 50% off sale :-/. I was kinda gambling on them not being included in the komplete series.


----------



## Jaap

I really like this part of Kontakt 6!

"
*CREATOR TOOLS*
KONTAKT 6 ships with a standalone application suite – Creator Tools – to aid the instrument creation processes. It consists of two elements: a Debugger for identifying and fixing problems in KONTAKT script, and an Instrument Editor which can load and run Lua scripts to automap samples, duplicate and batch rename groups, and copy settings from one part of the instrument to another."

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-6/whats-new/


----------



## EvilDragon

Yep, Creator Tools is really making developing a whole lot easier, that's for sure. 



N.Caffrey said:


> could we expect some discount on black friday?



Nope, it's too soon.


----------



## Musicam

Is available now Kontakt 6?


----------



## Jaap

Musicam said:


> Is available now Kontakt 6?



No, also released on October 1, but available for pre-order though.


----------



## Alex Fraser

It's the 50 odd expansions included with K12UCE (can I get dibs on the official acronym?) that blows my mind. Each seems to come with about 50 battery kits. So that's possibly 50 x 50 plus what the factory...well, it's a lot of kits.


----------



## Iostream

Musicam said:


> Is available now Kontakt 6?



October 1 is the K12 ship date, I am guessing that will be the first available Kontakt update.


----------



## Musicam

Jaap said:


> No, also released on October 1, but available for pre-order though.


 Can you provide the link please?


----------



## Iostream

Alex Fraser said:


> It's the 50 odd expansions included with K12UCE (can I get dibs on the official acronym?) that blows my mind. Each seems to come with about 50 battery kits. So that's possibly 50 x 50 plus what the factory...well, it's a lot of kits.



Basically it looks like they made the Maschine expansions also be Battery expansions.


----------



## Musicam

We talk about Kontakt player 6 or Kontakt 6?


----------



## Jaap

Musicam said:


> Can you provide the link please?



Sure thing, just above the picture you see the release date notification and pre-order button:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-6/


----------



## jamwerks

Hoping for a bundle of upgrade with the new Komplete Kontrol A49!


----------



## Musicam

Thanks! Pleasure! I have Kontakt player 5. Whats the differene beteween crossgrade and update?


----------



## EvilDragon

Crossgrade is when you're crossgrading from a Kontakt Player powered library to Kontakt 5 full. Update is when you're just updating from previous Kontakt full version.


----------



## D Halgren

No MPE for Kontakt 6? Was really hoping for that. It doesn't really seem to be much of a change at the user level.


----------



## zimm83

EvilDragon said:


> Crossgrade is when you're crossgrading from a Kontakt Player powered library to Kontakt 5 full. Update is when you're just updating from previous Kontakt full version.


99 euros the Update. K5 to k6 : it is ok for me. Can't wait !!!


----------



## N.Caffrey

EvilDragon said:


> Crossgrade is when you're crossgrading from a Kontakt Player powered library to Kontakt 5 full. Update is when you're just updating from previous Kontakt full version.



Didn't you say Kontakt 6 not long ago was still in Alpha?


----------



## zimm83

zimm83 said:


> 99 euros the Update. K5 to k6 : it is ok for me. Can't wait !!!


The À keyboard series included machine essentials ??? So we can groove ? Really ?


----------



## EvilDragon

N.Caffrey said:


> Didn't you say Kontakt 6 not long ago was still in Alpha?



No that was quite some time ago and it met an untimely fate. This beta cycle is quite quick, but there will be more updates to come after 6.0.0 of course.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Interesting to note: There's no mention of a Kloud subscription of any kind. NI seem quite focused on expanding their existing business model.

I do like the look of the Collectors Edition. I could really make some good use out of the more urban oriented expansions...


----------



## Michael Antrum

Wasn't it the case that NI said that the full symphony series would never be put into Komplete ?

Bit naughty if so.....


----------



## Jaap

Just checked my upgrade option for Komplete 12 and it did not take in account that I have already a few expansions that are also on the Komplete 12 list


----------



## kriskrause

I will definitely pick up the KU12CE upgrade if/when they do a 50% off sale.

Very interested in the A61 as well. The S61 looks great, but never quite made sense for me.


----------



## n9n9n9

D Halgren said:


> No MPE for Kontakt 6? Was really hoping for that. It doesn't really seem to be much of a change at the user level.



I’m very disappointed in this. I don’t see MPE support anywhere in K12.


----------



## EvilDragon

A61 is cool for beginners I'd say, but the loss of LightGuide and especially displays make it a bit tough to swallow for anyone intermediate or experienced, IMHO.


----------



## Alex Fraser

mikeybabes said:


> Wasn't it the case that NI said that the full symphony series would never be put into Komplete ?
> Bit naughty if so.....


"But we said Komplete or Komplete Ultimate. We didn't say we wouldn't invent a new extra/special/ultra-unlimited version of Komplete..."


----------



## EvilDragon

D Halgren said:


> No MPE for Kontakt 6?



Kontakt already has ways of supporting MPE, as Slate+Ash Auras library showed... It doesn't need to be in the headlines.


----------



## D Halgren

EvilDragon said:


> Kontakt already has ways of supporting MPE, as Slate+Ash Auras library showed... It doesn't need to be in the headlines.


They had to do a ton of work around scripting to achieve that, and they still don't have the Lift function. Actually, I was hoping for it mainly for their sake! I love Auras so much!


----------



## zadillo

I’m curious, for people who own both Komplete 11 Ultimate and the full Symphony series, will there be any upgrade path to the Collectors edition? It seems like I'd have to pay $599 to upgrade even though I own both


----------



## Iostream

Better question, for people who go with ultimate 12, is there an upgrade path to ultimate 12 CE? From reading the site, it looks like that price would be the same as going ultimate 11 - 12 CE.


----------



## Iostream

Also, wonder if they are bringing in VST3 support with any of this


----------



## n9n9n9

EvilDragon said:


> Kontakt already has ways of supporting MPE, as Slate+Ash Auras library showed... It doesn't need to be in the headlines.



Those "ways" of supporting MPE are absolutely brutal to implement yourself. And it isn't MPE they are supporting but round-robin MIDI channel inputs, which is itself pretty hard to get going in a lot of DAWs and doesn't really support proper recording and editing of MIDI.

But just for the record in my work this is what needs to be done in Kontakt to get something working w MPE:

* take a sample preset, say Spitfire Symphonic Swarm Clarinet Whispers
* Edit that preset to support the controllers that I want to use with my ROLI controller: pressure, up/updown
* Make that preset mono
* Then duplicate the edited preset x times (however much polyphony you want, I do six)
* Set each duplicated instance to receive a different MIDI input
* Save that one preset

I mention this to gripe, but also since I have EvilDragon's attention... could be that this is the dumb way to do it. But it takes about 15min per preset that you want to convert, at least this way.

Slate+Ash made multis but when I asked them how they said they did all this and more for 16 notes of poly, by hand, and that it was incredibly labor intensive.


----------



## Musicam

More money?


----------



## kriskrause

EvilDragon said:


> A61 is cool for beginners I'd say, but the loss of LightGuide and especially displays make it a bit tough to swallow for anyone intermediate or experienced, IMHO.


I will definitely be waiting for in depth reviews, but I'm currently working without either of those features, so it's less of a loss to me than something I would choose not to invest in. I figured the bigger benefit to me would be NKS mapping at a very affordable price. Appreciate your words of caution though.


----------



## EvilDragon

n9n9n9 said:


> Slate+Ash made multis



Yes but for a completely different reason. If you open those multis, you get just a single instrument loaded. There was a bug that wasn't fixed prior to 5.8.1 which made per-group MIDI input setting of "omni" broken when reopening the instrument, but it worked fine when opening a multi. So regarding Auras library, if those individual patches were resaved with 5.8.1, they wouldn't need to use multis anymore.

Round robin MIDI channel input is pretty much how MPE works... and I've no problems editing such data in Reaper, say, when events are colored by MIDI channel...


----------



## zimm83

EvilDragon said:


> Crossgrade is when you're crossgrading from a Kontakt Player powered library to Kontakt 5 full. Update is when you're just updating from previous Kontakt full version.


Can you tell us what is machine essential. ....only selected functions ? Thanks


----------



## EvilDragon

No idea, I didn't look into that at all.


----------



## EvilDragon

Actually, says so right here: 

* Maschine Essentials (Full Maschine Software + 1.6GB Factory Library Selection)

https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/announcing-komplete-kontrol-a-series.335577


----------



## D Halgren

EvilDragon said:


> Yes but for a completely different reason. If you open those multis, you get just a single instrument loaded. There was a bug that wasn't fixed prior to 5.8.1 which made per-group MIDI input setting of "omni" broken when reopening the instrument, but it worked fine when opening a multi. So regarding Auras library, if those individual patches were resaved with 5.8.1, they wouldn't need to use multis anymore.
> 
> Round robin MIDI channel input is pretty much how MPE works... and I've no problems editing such data in Reaper, say, when events are colored by MIDI channel...


Just in case they are not aware.

@slateandash 

Thanks as always ED.


----------



## zimm83

EvilDragon said:


> Actually, says so right here:
> 
> * Maschine Essentials (Full Maschine Software + 1.6GB Factory Library Selection)
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/announcing-komplete-kontrol-a-series.335577


Thanks .Very interested


----------



## GtrString

Mooom... Daaaad...


----------



## axb312

So, no resizable GUI in Kontakt 6? Also does the A61 have a Fatar keybed or....?


----------



## wnws

Hmmm. Do I need the extra 30 packs or the Symphony series. Maybe just the Ultimate update. This way my wife will only kill me faster rather then a slow painful death with the collectors price upgrade.


----------



## Shubus

So.....it's finally here. I'll be waiting for those in depth reviews to come in also. Kontakt 6 is not something I would want to jump in on especially as I have many ongoing projects. Until we see what new bugs are going to inhibit our workflow with our DAWs it is not a risk worth taking, it's time to stand back and wait for that 50% off sale.


----------



## EvilDragon

axb312 said:


> So, no resizable GUI in Kontakt 6?



Nope. And I don't think it will be happening because literally all the content ever made for Kontakt is using bitmaps. So if that were resizeable (as in HiDPI), you'd get a blurry mess anyways. I mean HiDPI support for the Kontakt shell might happen, but for libraries, it's not so clear-cut.



Shubus said:


> Kontakt 6 is not something I would want to jump in on especially as I have many ongoing projects.



K6 installs side by side with K5 so not really a problem there.


----------



## Guy Rowland

EvilDragon said:


> Actually, says so right here:
> 
> * Maschine Essentials (Full Maschine Software + 1.6GB Factory Library Selection)
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/announcing-komplete-kontrol-a-series.335577



Ooh i've been waiting for software-only Maschine. Does anyone know if this is going to be available to all, or just bundled with these keyboards? Given the expansions in Komplete, seems a strange omission to leave it out of the bundle, but I don't see any reference to it on the website anywhere.


----------



## KarlHeinz

As NI has very regular sales, does anybody know when we can expect first sales on updates (kontakt 5 to 6, komplete 11 to 12) ? Before next summer sale ?


----------



## Mystic

KarlHeinz said:


> As NI has very regular sales, does anybody know when we can expect first sales on updates (kontakt 5 to 6, komplete 11 to 12) ? Before next summer sale ?


Probably November. Not sure that I'd expect it to be as low this year or even for Komplete itself. I believe they used to do mostly single instruments in November.


----------



## evilantal

To update K5 to K6 now or wait for a 50% sale on updates (if there is such a thing)...


----------



## JPComposer

EvilDragon said:


> K6 installs side by side with K5 so not really a problem there.



Does that mean Kontakt 6 would not automatically update all the instances of kontakt 5 in my template? I wouldn't like to rebuild it from scratch.


----------



## Mystic

evilantal said:


> To update K5 to K6 now or wait for a 50% sale on updates (if there is such a thing)...


I'm personally going to wait till all the bugs are worked out. Doesn't look like there are any updates to library browsing or the interface as a whole so as a user, thus far what I've seen is really disappointing. I'm sure it's much better on the developer end though.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

TigerTheFrog said:


> Just as was predicted many months ago in the nativeaccess.html file, NI has introduced expansion packs for MASSIVE. But they were also supposed to release Massive X. In fact, these packs were referred to as "The Massive X Library." It seems like that's not happening now, particularly because they're selling Massive at 50% off now.
> 
> If so, then NI has released all the other instruments in the nativeaccess.html file. There's nothing to stop them from announcing the release of Komplete 12 soon.
> 
> If you believe the rumors, that is.
> 
> *New from Komplete 11 to Komplete 12*
> 
> Session Strings 2 $99
> Native Instruments Discovery Series: Middle East $99
> Scarbee Rickenbacker Bass $99
> TRK-01 (Reaktor) $99
> Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair $69
> 10 Maschine Expansions and Battery Kits (plus Massive and Monark presets)
> Deep Matter, Elastic Thump, Halycon Sky, London Grit, Lucid Mission, Molten Veil, Neon Drive, Queensbridge Story, True School, Velvet Lounge $49 each
> Massive Expansions Stadium Flex, Nocturnal State, and Spectrum Quake $59
> 
> 
> *New from Komplete Ultimate 11 to Komplete Ultimate 12*
> 
> Thrill $299
> Session Strings Pro 2 $299 (update $149)
> Native Instruments Discovery Series: Middle East $99
> 
> Symphony Essentials Percussion $99
> Session Guitarist: Strummed Acoustic 2 $99
> Session Guitarist: Electric Sunburst $99
> TRK-01 (Reaktor) $99
> Kinetic Toys $99
> Modpack Effects Series: Choral, Phasis, Flair $69
> Crushpack Effects Series: Bite, Dirt, Freak $69
> 20 Maschine Expansions & Battery Kits (plus presets for Massive, Monark, Prism, etc.)
> Astral Flutter, Byte Riot, Caribbean Current, Cavern Floor, Decoded Forms, Deep Matter, Drop Squad, Elastic Thump, Golden Kingdom, Halycon Sky, Lazer Dice, London Grit, Lucid Mission, Marble Rims, Molten Veil, Neon Drive, Platinum Bounce, Queensbridge Story, True School, Velvet Lounge $49 each
> Massive Expansions: Stadium Flex, Nocturnal State, and Spectrum Quake $59



I think I've been pretty close to having this right for a long time. I did mention Kontakt 6 and Massive X, but got cold feet about them. (Evildragon made a convincing case that Kontakt 6 was extremely unlikely, and I was confused by them releasing more patches for Massive) NI doesn't mention this in their announcement, but there is supposed to be a library of new patches that will accompany the release of Massive X, presumably taking advantage of its new capabilities. 

What's the biggest surprise are all the new instruments that come with Kontakt 6. Also the "Collector's Edition." They always said the Symphony Series Collection would never be in Ultimate, and I guess that's true. But I wonder if people would have bought it if they knew this was coming. It's only $200 more than a Komplete Ultimate Upgrade.


----------



## BezO

I wish they had bundled the Maschine Essentials with the Mikro instead. Why bundle it with keyboards?

I like that there are no "new" products, just higher/lower end additions. I hope this means a concentration of updating the related software.



Nao Gam said:


> Soo glad I got to the last komplete sale just in time before the new reveal


I was just thinking the opposite. I purchased/upgraded 2 products during the last 50% sale; could've upgraded to 12UCE for a little more and got a lot more.



zadillo said:


> I’m curious, for people who own both Komplete 11 Ultimate and the full Symphony series, will there be any upgrade path to the Collectors edition? It seems like I'd have to pay $599 to upgrade even though I own both


My concern. I upgraded to the Series shortly after they said it wouldn't be included, with plans to upgrade to KU12. No way the upgrade to 12KUCE is worth $600 to me now. I see why folks stay away for 2-3 years at a time. Unless they customize an upgrade for folks like us, I'll be waiting for KUCE14 or so.


----------



## Andrew

EvilDragon said:


> A61 is cool for beginners I'd say, but the loss of LightGuide and especially displays make it a bit tough to swallow for anyone intermediate or experienced, IMHO.


I've noticed on the Kontakt 6 page that the lightguides/knob mapping with the S-series keyboards will now work with Kontakt and not just the Komplete Kontrol plugin - does this mean that functionality doesn't currently work with Kontakt 5?


----------



## Iostream

BezO said:


> I wish they had bundled the Maschine Essentials with the Mikro instead. Why bundle it with keyboards?


Why essentials with Mikro, when Mikro has always come with a full version of Maschine and Komplete Essentials. I have always thought Maschine software was useful for certain types of writing even without the Maschine hardware attached. I have done a ton of non orchestral sketches in it over the years, and typically use the keyboard for non drum input as opposed to the pads.


----------



## steveo42

Has anyone found a link to the feature comparison charts between the various Komplete versions. Specifically Ultimate and the Ultimate Collector's Edition. For some reason I can't seem to locate this. TIA.


----------



## Iostream

steveo42 said:


> Has anyone found a link to the feature comparison charts between the various Komplete versions. Specifically Ultimate and the Ultimate Collector's Edition. For some reason I can't seem to locate this. TIA.


https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/bundles/komplete-12/compare/


----------



## EvilDragon

JPComposer said:


> Does that mean Kontakt 6 would not automatically update all the instances of kontakt 5 in my template? I wouldn't like to rebuild it from scratch.



I guess if you're on Mac and using AU, it actually WOULD do that. But for VST people, it wouldn't, it'd be a side by side install.



BezO said:


> Why bundle it with keyboards?



Because it was requested by keyboarders, so that they can have some semblance of NKS integration with KK instances if their host doesn't have "deep integration", I would assume.

With Mikro you get the full Maschine anyways, from what I gather.



Andrew said:


> I've noticed on the Kontakt 6 page that the lightguides/knob mapping with the S-series keyboards will now work with Kontakt and not just the Komplete Kontrol plugin - does this mean that functionality doesn't currently work with Kontakt 5?



Nope, you still need to use KK for LightGuide. Did you mean because of this image?

https://www.native-instruments.com/...elcome-c1d83f1a21b376bc35277487152e1386-d.jpg


If you'll notice, LightGuide is blue, whereas on Kontakt GUI it's a totally different color. S-series keyboard is in MIDI mode here


----------



## steveo42

Iostream said:


> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/bundles/komplete-12/compare/



Thank you!
Wow that was quick!


----------



## wnws

I don’t understand. Vouchers don’t work for a update? I thought if it was a sale that would be blocked.


----------



## JPComposer

EvilDragon said:


> I guess if you're on Mac and using AU, it actually WOULD do that. But for VST people, it wouldn't, it'd be a side by side install.



Thanks. Glad I found that out before I paid for the upgrade.


----------



## BezO

Iostream said:


> Why essentials with Mikro, when Mikro has always come with a full version of Maschine and Komplete Essentials. I have always thought Maschine software was useful for certain types of writing even without the Maschine hardware attached. I have done a ton of non orchestral sketches in it over the years, and typically use the keyboard for non drum input as opposed to the pads.


My wish makes no sense unless they Mikro was cheaper with Essentials. Not sure what I was thinking.

As someone who is slightly considering the Maschine MK3, the Mikro might be better for me. Cheaper, pads (likely selling my MPC Touch) & I can test if the Maschine software can be DAW-like enough to suit my needs. If it doesn't, $250 for a sketch set up.

I'm strictly Hip Hop, R&B, Reggae & Electronica. Despite this, I've come to lean on DAW features & VIs much more heavily than others making the same type of music. I've gotten used to my Logic Pro X template with roughly 35 VIs ready to go.

Not many VI-centric folks use Maschine, at least not in Youtube vids. With Maschine not being an actual DAW, I've been trying to find out how CPU efficient it is, especially compared to actual DAWs. Would such a template in Maschine crush my CPU?


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

n9n9n9 said:


> I’m very disappointed in this. I don’t see MPE support anywhere in K12.


Most people see MPE as Roli, when in fact there are probably over a dozen devices today, most available in different price ranges. Most are made by small companies. IMO there are going to eventually be dozens more MPE controllers, and companies like Yamaha, Roland, Akai, Arturia, M-Audio, Korg, Behringer, Alesis, Novation, Nektar, will all make them.

Most developers I correspond with are ignoring MPE--some see it as a micro-niche product and others see it as too much work. They would have to rewrite a lot of code. It's very rare to find a company like Orange Tree Samples who is looking ahead. Smaller companies will lead on this. Big companies like NI will be dragged along. Just like when VHS and DVD players first came out, it was the smaller companies that got most of the films in the stores first. 

It's much easier to give full MPE capability to instruments that don't piggyback off a sampler engine like Kontakt, Play, etc. There will be lots of MPE capable VST/AUs. If /when NI makes Kontakt MPE-capable, it will affect everybody that has made a VI for them. It might also affect some DAWs. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that will be very challenging. It's much more likely IMO that they will add MPE capability to many of their synths that run without Kontakt (Absynth, Massive, FM8, Battery) or in Reaktor. And they'll make new ones. I expect forward-thinking developers like Output to make new MPE VSTs. 

I don't know if Spitfire is building their own engine so they can someday make their products MPE capable, but it wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## EvilDragon

BezO said:


> I can test if the Maschine software can be DAW-like enough to suit my needs



It's not a DAW. It's a sketching tool to get your loops going. I don't think they'll ever make a full-blown DAW out of it, it's just too specific of a tool. Still useful, but not in the same way as a DAW.


----------



## Iostream

BezO said:


> My wish makes no sense unless they Mikro was cheaper with Essentials. Not sure what I was thinking.
> 
> As someone who is slightly considering the Maschine MK3, the Mikro might be better for me. Cheaper, pads (likely selling my MPC Touch) & I can test if the Maschine software can be DAW-like enough to suit my needs. If it doesn't, $250 for a sketch set up.
> 
> I'm strictly Hip Hop, R&B, Reggae & Electronica. Despite this, I've come to lean on DAW features & VIs much more heavily than others making the same type of music. I've gotten used to my Logic Pro X template with roughly 35 VIs ready to go.
> 
> Not many VI-centric folks use Maschine, at least not in Youtube vids. With Maschine not being an actual DAW, I've been trying to find out how CPU efficient it is, especially compared to actual DAWs. Would such a template in Maschine crush my CPU?



Maschine is used a bit differently. Even though I work with templates in Cubase, I tend to not in Maschine. From a sketch standpoint, I usually start with a synth and come up with lines I like, and then build up around them. It even does a decent job working with external synths. CPU doesn't seem to be a problem. It offers a different arrangement viewpoint, so I tend to think differently when working within it, in terms of song structure. It lends itself well to the basic intro/verse/chorus/verse/bridge thing.
The original reason I bought Maschine, and one thing it is truly great at, is the sampler. And mikro is less great because of the lack of screens. The workflow with the sampler reminds me a lot more of the ASR-10 from back in the day. I sample into it, edit the samples on the hardware, resample sometimes, etc. It is much easier to use for quick samples than Kontakt is, and the screens and knobs are a lot of the reason why I love it.


----------



## Ran Zhou

What is the expansion for? I have both maschine and Komplete U10. I guess I will not pay extra 200 just for collecting expansions. But this is exciting!


----------



## badhaircut

Iostream said:


> Also, wonder if they are bringing in VST3 support with any of this


That's what I'm most interested in. VST3. Looked everywhere on the Kontakt 6 page and couldn't find anything.


----------



## EvilDragon

No VST3.


----------



## Ben

EvilDragon said:


> No VST3.


How hard can it be to implement VST3?


----------



## EvilDragon

Very hard. Especially with a very old codebase. It's a completely different framework. Many plugin developers abhor VST3 for frankly very good reasons.


----------



## BezO

EvilDragon said:


> It's not a DAW. It's a sketching tool to get your loops going. I don't think they'll ever make a full-blown DAW out of it, it's just too specific of a tool. Still useful, but not in the same way as a DAW.


I get it, though folks do more than sketch with it. Not sure if it's too much for Maschine, but I'm not looking for a full blown DAW. I dig & miss the beat machine workflow for creating. Final arrangements, mixing, etc would still be done in Logic.

My concern at this point is the CPU efficiency compared to DAWs, specifically Logic. I've come to rely heavily on a template with 30-35 go-to VIs, purged of course. Is Maschine efficient enough not to crush my 2017 2.8GHz, 16GB RAM MBP with that type of template? I can't think of anything else I can't work around or that I've not already seen Maschine do.

I doubt I've ever done a song with more than 10-15 instruments, but having my go-to VIs ready to play helps a lot. I don't want to trade template efficiency for beat machine efficiency.


----------



## Michael Antrum

TigerTheFrog said:


> What's the biggest surprise are all the new instruments that come with Kontakt 6. Also the "Collector's Edition." They always said the Symphony Series Collection would never be in Ultimate, and I guess that's true. But I wonder if people would have bought it if they knew this was coming. It's only $200 more than a Komplete Ultimate Upgrade.



Yes, i'm afraid that I consider this to be rather underhand. But of course, now we know that this is how they operate, we'll have to be more circumspect with their promises in future.

Fool me once.....


----------



## BezO

Iostream said:


> Maschine is used a bit differently. Even though I work with templates in Cubase, I tend to not in Maschine. From a sketch standpoint, I usually start with a synth and come up with lines I like, and then build up around them. It even does a decent job working with external synths. CPU doesn't seem to be a problem. It offers a different arrangement viewpoint, so I tend to think differently when working within it, in terms of song structure. It lends itself well to the basic intro/verse/chorus/verse/bridge thing.
> The original reason I bought Maschine, and one thing it is truly great at, is the sampler. And mikro is less great because of the lack of screens. The workflow with the sampler reminds me a lot more of the ASR-10 from back in the day. I sample into it, edit the samples on the hardware, resample sometimes, etc. It is much easier to use for quick samples than Kontakt is, and the screens and knobs are a lot of the reason why I love it.


It would be hard to pinpoint where my stuff goes from sketch to song. I build up sequences/scenes/loops like most, but end up with full song sections in that process. This is what I want to hand over to Maschine. Final arrangement, mix, etc would remain with Logic.

Funny, as much as I love the beat machine workflow, sampling is not a major part of my writing, though I've been sampling more lately. But now that you say that, I'd hate chopping without the screen. My focus is back on the Maschine MK3.

I chose the MPC Touch over the MK3 a while back completely unaware that it didn't support multi-output plugins. Now that I work in Komplete instead of Kontakt (multiple instruments per instance), this is only an issue with drum VIs. If I weren't looking at 5-12 passes to print drums, I would already have my solution. I love that touch screen.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

mikeybabes said:


> Yes, i'm afraid that I consider this to be rather underhand. But of course, now we know that this is how they operate, we'll have to be more circumspect with their promises in future.
> 
> Fool me once.....


They also brought out and promoted aggressively a series of patches for Massive shortly before announcing the Massive X, which I believe will have new patches. I'm sure they'll still work, but still... people are going to want to save their money for Massive X patches.


----------



## EvilDragon

I'm not 100% certain if Massive X will be patch-compatible with old Massive. They do mention it installs side by side somewhere...


----------



## WindcryMusic

Hmm, a bit disappointed. From what I can tell, as an owner of K11U + the full Symphony Series, there's very little here to entice me to upgrade to K12U prior to a steep sale, and no reason at all to go for the Collector's Edition (since the latter seems to just add the full Symphony Series that I already have, plus a bunch of urban-oriented expansions that I'd never use). It appears the only things of interest to me here are the K6 update, which doesn't appear to include much from an end user's perspective ... but I realize I'll probably be obligated to get it eventually, once they've worked out the bugs, in order to use future updates for my existing libraries. And then there's Thrill, which I readily admit I'd like to have. But I certainly won't be paying $399 for just those two things.

Yeah, I know Massive X is eventually coming to K12U too, but I have used Massive essentially once, for nothing more advanced than creating a sub-bass sine wave, so I'm not exactly jumping out of my seat about that update.


----------



## pixel

Alex Fraser said:


> It's the blurry thumbnail of Massive X enlarged



It looks like collection of few Reaktor Blocks merged together and sold under Massive brand. Also decades-old sounds in teaser does not help. I was excited for upgraded version of my favorite synth but now I'm getting strange feeling that the real upgrade will be by Serum purchase...  I hope they quickly do detailed video where they prove that it's worthy successor of Massive.
And all I ever wanted was to get advanced envelopes only


----------



## sostenuto

WindcryMusic said:


> Hmm, a bit disappointed. From what I can tell, as an owner of K11U + the full Symphony Series, there's very little here to entice me to upgrade to K12U prior to a steep sale, and no reason at all to go for the Collector's Edition (since the latter seems to just add the full Symphony Series that I already have, plus a bunch of urban-oriented expansions that I'd never use).



Much more disappointed here as K11U owner but interested in Symphony Series Upgrade at modest cost.
Like you, no interest in expansions or really anything down EDM path.

No problem _ as NI can't please all _ but $399. incl Symphony Series ( in place of unwanted stuff ) is max here.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

You may all know this (it was announced in February) but I just found out that the expansions are no longer Maschine expansions that only play in Maschine (as well as synth patches, etc) They are now just "expansions." Apparently the Maschine MIDI loops in the construction kits have been converted to Wav files. So, for example, "Amplified Funk" (not in the Ultimates) was originally 211 MB and the new version is over 2 GB. Expect that all these expansions will take up some space in your hard drive, if you want them.


----------



## EvilDragon

Well, naturally you can remove the WAV content if you really don't need it.


----------



## Alex Fraser

As a slight cheeky shuffle OT - do those of you with access to percussion from Spitfire/EW/Berlin/Other Big Guns still use the Komplete supplied stuff like Damage, Action Strikes etc?


----------



## WindcryMusic

In reply to @Alex Fraser ...

I've never really used Action Strikes, as I had other dedicated percussion libraries before I got K11U. I've taken a look at it and considered using it, but thus far I have not done so.

I also had Damage before K11U, and used it quite a bit back then. I still use it occasionally, but not nearly as much as I would have expected, because I have so many other options now, and especially since I tend to lean towards more realistic-sounding ("old fashioned"?) cinematic cues rather than the epic hybrid stuff.


----------



## Will Wilson

I upgraded from K8 Ultimate to K11 Ultimate at the beginning of the year on 50% off and have bought Thrill and a couple of others included in K12 so will pass until/if it goes on 50% upgrade again.


----------



## zvenx

EvilDragon said:


> I'm not 100% certain if Massive X will be patch-compatible with old Massive. They do mention it installs side by side somewhere...



I would find it very odd/unusual with the new push to sell Massive Expansions that it wouldn't be. Actually when the Expansions went on sale, I was more confident that Massive X would be a Massive update.
We shall see.
rsp


----------



## Montisquirrel

I'm on Komplete 11, so no need for upgrade. I guess all upcoming Kontakt Libraries will still work untill a 50% Sale on Kontakt 6 Update will come next summer.

The only thing I'm really looking forward to is Massive X


----------



## whiskers

im really glad they included orchestral stuff in the NI Komplete bundle, but that's at the highest tier. 1600, woof.


----------



## ChazC

wnws said:


> Hmmm. Do I need the extra 30 packs or the Symphony series. Maybe just the Ultimate update. This way my wife will only kill me faster rather then a slow painful death with the collectors price upgrade.



This is exactly where I'm at. I have KU9 and really, the KU update is sufficient. I'm pretty much covered on the orchestral front & I don't even use all the EDM/Techno/Trance samples I have so what I'd do with 30 packs more of it I have no idea! A couple of the pop/indie expansions (which I suspect I would use) are included in KU so that's my plan. Rather that than swinging by my neck from the hall light when the wife sees the credit card bill if I went Collectors...


----------



## steveo42

Same boat here. KU11 and I'm not seeing anything other than the full version of the orchestral stuff, that would be useful for me and I don't feel that is worth $599.00 . The EDM stuff and developer enhancements are not something I would use. All in all, this upgrade seems like a snooze to me. I'm a new KU11 user so maybe I'm missing something?


----------



## germancomponist

We bought 11 and use mostly 5% of it. I assume we will never buy a newer version .... . 
But, I consider that from the highest level. In itself Komplete is not bad! It is just not my cup of tea .... .


----------



## Fleer

Would have loved a Collector’s Edition without the EDM packs.


----------



## dzilizzi

Well, looks like I'm going to save some money. The only thing semi interesting is Kontakt 6, and that looks like it isn't that much more useful as a user than the current version. 

I have so many sound files I got when I was first starting and ended never using any of them because they never are quite right. So I'm thinking a bunch of expansion packs are going to be just as useless for me. I guess it is aimed towards the Traktor users?


----------



## gregh

similar position here - I will eventually upgrade Kontakt when libraries start demanding a newer version and it will really be price thing whether I do that via Komplete or not. - but that could be a while as nothing apparent so far in this latest version seems applicable to me. In reality I am looking to sell a lot of my software and build my expertise on just a few high quality or very specific products.


----------



## bryla

My user page on NI says that my most recent purchase was Komplete 10 Ultimate, but that I don't qualify for any Komplete updates or upgrades. How can that be?


----------



## gregh

bryla said:


> My user page on NI says that my most recent purchase was Komplete 10 Ultimate, but that I don't qualify for any Komplete updates or upgrades. How can that be?


I have the offer in my account but it is only pre-order anyway Oct1 release


----------



## Mornats

bryla said:


> My user page on NI says that my most recent purchase was Komplete 10 Ultimate, but that I don't qualify for any Komplete updates or upgrades. How can that be?



I have K10U and I'm seeing the offers for the upgrades. Maybe it's a glitch?


----------



## N.Caffrey

Mornats said:


> I have K10U and I'm seeing the offers for the upgrades. Maybe it's a glitch?



I can see the offers too.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Mornats said:


> I have K10U and I'm seeing the offers for the upgrades. Maybe it's a glitch?


Fire off a support request to NI. I've had good customer service with these guys.
A


----------



## Geoff Grace

I'm curious: is the "X" in Massive X a Roman numeral ten or the letter "x?"

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Grégory Betton

And what about these keyboards (especially the Komplete Kontrol S88)? Has anyone had a glance at them, or could even have played with them?


----------



## Andrew

EvilDragon said:


> Nope, you still need to use KK for LightGuide. Did you mean because of this image?
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/...elcome-c1d83f1a21b376bc35277487152e1386-d.jpg
> 
> If you'll notice, LightGuide is blue, whereas on Kontakt GUI it's a totally different color. S-series keyboard is in MIDI mode here



Thanks for clarifying! I assume the reason the full lightguide/8 knob integration only works with KK (plugin) because in order to work with Kontakt directly, NI would need to reprogramme the way Kontakt itself works? A real shame, because it means old templates using Kontakt will need to be updated to use KK if I want to use the full functionality.

On that note, do you know if an instance of KK is more or less system-resource efficient than an instance of Kontakt?

Thanks so much for your help!


----------



## MarcelM

so i sold my kontakt5 license a few month ago and bought ultimate11.

can i just upgrade kontakt or do i have to upgrade to ultimate 12 to get kontakt 6?


----------



## GtrString

I must say, the new Machine, Machine Micro and the keyboard (wish there was a 61 keys weighted option) looks really nice. Love the audio interface in Machine. It could come in handy as a second and/or backup interface.

The moment there is NKS support in Studio One 4, I might get one (or two).
Please take a moment to vote, if you are a Studio One user:


----------



## bosone

MarcelM said:


> so i sold my kontakt5 license a few month ago and bought ultimate11.
> 
> can i just upgrade kontakt or do i have to upgrade to ultimate 12 to get kontakt 6?



you have to upgrade to ultimate 12! no means to upgrade just kontakt having komplete license.

i am like you: i owned kontakt 1or 2, then upgraded to 4, then switched to komplete 8, and finally to k10U... now waiting a couple of years for K12U update discounts!


----------



## mauriziodececco

Andrew said:


> Thanks for clarifying! I assume the reason the full lightguide/8 knob integration only works with KK (plugin) because in order to work with Kontakt directly, NI would need to reprogramme the way Kontakt itself works? A real shame, because it means old templates using Kontakt will need to be updated to use KK if I want to use the full functionality.
> 
> On that note, do you know if an instance of KK is more or less system-resource efficient than an instance of Kontakt?
> 
> Thanks so much for your help!



In the Kontakt 6 page, in the hardware integration section, it says : "KONTAKT also works seamlessly with the Light Guide on KOMPLETE KONTROL S-SERIES keyboards for one-to-one visual feedback. Access extended performance controls such as articulations (slide on a guitar instrument or mute on brass, for example), pattern switches, key splits, and more."

But strictly speaking, if this happens thru Komplete Kontrol, the description would be still correct.

Maurizio


----------



## redlester

As a KU11 owner, I could upgrade to the full collectors version for £479.
Or,alternatively, I could spend £100 less and get Omnisphere 2.5, c/w the hardware integration for my Subsequent 37.

To paraphrase Jaws... we're going to need a bigger disk!


----------



## EvilDragon

Andrew said:


> On that note, do you know if an instance of KK is more or less system-resource efficient than an instance of Kontakt?



KK of course uses some extra RAM, but as far as CPU I didn't notice any huge impact on Kontakt's performance within KK.


----------



## Quasar

I purchased a Mike Verta video tutorial called _Virtuosity_, and - although I haven't watched the whole thing yet - it seems really good. One of the first things he talks about is that music written with samples for samples is not about "the sound" so much as it is about connecting with what you're doing and getting the "feel". He then played a piece written with samples made over 15 years ago, and it sounded great. The point, of course, is that one doesn't need the "latest & greatest" to make good music.

This truth is something that virtually all of us know but sometimes wish to forget, due to GAS and all of that... Since now ALL of the high-end symphonic libraries have draconian, fascist CP in which one is surveilled and treated like a criminal (NI was the last holdout, but ruined their brand with the Native Access malware and mandated online activation), I will simply be grateful to have the tools that I have and stop paying attention to further upgrades and developments, except in those increasingly rare cases where the CP is handled righteously. 

Capitalist greed ruins everything, but I can and will simply drop-out. Finis.


----------



## EvilDragon

If only you'd still drop out of repeating yourself like a broken record...


----------



## Mornats

How is Native Access malware? Malwarebytes doesn't flag it as such for me.


----------



## EvilDragon

It's called hyperbole for dramatic effect. Or just plain annoying.


----------



## N.Caffrey

EvilDragon said:


> If only you'd still drop out of repeating yourself like a broken record...



Man I wanted to say that haha!


----------



## stacever

MarcelM said:


> so i sold my kontakt5 license a few month ago and bought ultimate11.
> 
> can i just upgrade kontakt or do i have to upgrade to ultimate 12 to get kontakt 6?


 I am sure on NI forums I saw positive answer to such question (cannot find the link, there should be some old thread). You can purchase updates for individual products you own in Komplete.


----------



## Jimgue

wnws said:


> I don’t understand. Vouchers don’t work for a update? I thought if it was a sale that would be blocked.


From what I have been reading, e-vouchers are pretty much worthless. I have $50 and would love to be able to use on update, but it's not allowed.


----------



## MarcelM

bosone said:


> you have to upgrade to ultimate 12! no means to upgrade just kontakt having komplete license.
> 
> i am like you: i owned kontakt 1or 2, then upgraded to 4, then switched to komplete 8, and finally to k10U... now waiting a couple of years for K12U update discounts!



would be really bad if they force me to update ultimate12. i dont really need the new things in U12, but i want kontakt6.


----------



## slateandash

D Halgren said:


> Just in case they are not aware.
> 
> @slateandash
> 
> Thanks as always ED.



Cheers guys, already on it. The next update will have the patches as instruments instead of multi’s. Wahoo!


----------



## stacever

MarcelM said:


> would be really bad if they force me to update ultimate12. i dont really need the new things in U12, but i want kontakt6.



No, you can update Kontakt only. 
I have found the answer to similar question from NI staff on their forum: 
https://www.native-instruments.com/...al-questions-thread.145191/page-5#post-914433


----------



## zadillo

I still wish there was a better upgrade price for the Collectors Edition if one already owns both Komplete 11 Ultimate and the full Symphony Series.


----------



## stratus

Yeah, I bought the brass series because I though it would not be in Komplete, wish there was a discount


----------



## Josh Richman

Since NI doesn’t calculate privious purchases in upgrade paths the incentives are all over the map. It’s completely different for almost every user. It’s really silly to rebuy things you already own to upgrade and they know what you own! It’s mananged in thier system. It causes us to do an inventory, compare what is exactly in the upgrade, sell off or loose redundant purchases. Not a great user experience, nor a reasonable modern expectation.


----------



## Andrew

mauriziodececco said:


> In the Kontakt 6 page, in the hardware integration section, it says : "KONTAKT also works seamlessly with the Light Guide on KOMPLETE KONTROL S-SERIES keyboards for one-to-one visual feedback. Access extended performance controls such as articulations (slide on a guitar instrument or mute on brass, for example), pattern switches, key splits, and more."



This is the sentence that prompted my initial question, as it implies that Kontakt will integrate without KK. But Evil Dragon is an expert on these matters so I will assume the NI product description should be a little clearer.


----------



## lpuser

Andrew said:


> This is the sentence that prompted my initially question, as it implies that Kontakt will integrate without KK.



Absolutely. Which is why I am very frustrated. Loading KK is unnecessary overhead, not to speak of the (still existing) instabilities.


----------



## EvilDragon

From development perspective, doing it via a hub like KK makes the most sense, rather than including the whole low-level hardware communication layer thing in each and every product NI has (and forcing every 3rd party VST plugin developer to include it in their code as well, absolutely isn't a nice thing to do - which is why VST devs get a small and lean API instead), and then needing to update each and every product every time something new is added in KK or fixed or firmware related. Kore was a bit broken like that (its "internal engines" had to be updated each and every time one of them got updated individually), which eventually led to its discontinuation as it was just too troublesome to keep it up to date.

So I would say there's close to 0% chance that this will change ever.


That said, KK never crashed on me. As a subhost, it's perfectly stable as far as I can tell.


----------



## keyjam

Josh Richman said:


> Since NI doesn’t calculate privious purchases in upgrade paths the incentives are all over the map. It’s completely different for almost every user. It’s really silly to rebuy things you already own to upgrade and they know what you own! It’s mananged in thier system. It causes us to do an inventory, compare what is exactly in the upgrade, sell off or loose redundant purchases. Not a great user experience, nor a reasonable modern expectation.



Certainly agree not an ideal experience, but I have contacted support when dealing with this in the past and they have given me codes, honored the level that I am at. They said they would correct permanently (although not resolved), and Mentioned it’s because I have bought a lot of products over years (hardware and software) and the licenses get confused. Try support it worked well for me (always purchase what I want at right price)


----------



## C.R. Rivera

Pardon my confusion: I checked my account, as I have KU 9 and just upgraded to KU 11. As to the upgrade option for Kontakt 6, it has this message:

"For users of KONTAKT 1-5.
None of the qualifying products are registered to your account". 

It seems strange that I have Kontakt 5 but it is not reflected in NI's accounting. Confusion reigns supreme!

Cheers

Carlos


----------



## EvilDragon

That could be because actual release date for Kontakt is Oct 1st, so their system will probably be updated closer to that date? Not sure.


----------



## mixtur

bosone said:


> you have to upgrade to ultimate 12! no means to upgrade just kontakt having komplete license.
> 
> i am like you: i owned kontakt 1or 2, then upgraded to 4, then switched to komplete 8, and finally to k10U... now waiting a couple of years for K12U update discounts!



Its possible to downgrade to the basic Komplete though


----------



## Alex Fraser

So. Anyone going all in for the Collectors Edition?


----------



## zadillo

Alex Fraser said:


> So. Anyone going all in for the Collectors Edition?



I'm currently trying to sell my owned Expansions and Symphony Series. If I can get enough to basically cover the extra $200 cost for the Collectors Edition that's what I'll get.


----------



## Geoff Grace

Alex Fraser said:


> So. Anyone going all in for the Collectors Edition?


I'll probably do it when it goes on sale next summer. I'll be upgrading from K10U, so it should be a great value at that price—even if I don't wind up using everything it offers.

In the meantime, I'm looking at some hardware upgrades. At the very least, I'll need a new SSD to run this: its over 900GB. (K10U is 440GB.) The Komplete Kontrol S88 MK2 is tempting me as well. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Andrew

EvilDragon said:


> So I would say there's close to 0% chance that this will change ever.
> 
> That said, KK never crashed on me. As a subhost, it's perfectly stable as far as I can tell.



Thanks again ED for your knowledgable insight! Is it possible to run a 16-out instance of Kontakt within an instant of KK at all, or must every patch be run in a separate instance of KK?

Thanks!


----------



## EvilDragon

KK does support multiple outputs, up to 32 of them.

However, LightGuide will work only with a single instrument loaded into KK, not multi.


----------



## martinjuenke

zadillo said:


> I'm currently trying to sell my owned Expansions and Symphony Series. If I can get enough to basically cover the extra $200 cost for the Collectors Edition that's what I'll get.


Yes, the market is currently flooded by redundant NI products. Not good!


----------



## EvilDragon

Someone's redundant is someone else's golden nugget.


----------



## martinjuenke

EvilDragon said:


> Someone's redundant is someone else's golden nugget.


Currently it‘s a buyers market...
A pity that I have more or less all what‘s interesting for me!


----------



## EvilDragon

I don't think that's a pity. That's called "lack of GAS" and it's a blessing!


----------



## redlester

Josh Richman said:


> Since NI doesn’t calculate privious purchases in upgrade paths the incentives are all over the map. It’s completely different for almost every user. It’s really silly to rebuy things you already own to upgrade and they know what you own! It’s mananged in thier system. It causes us to do an inventory, compare what is exactly in the upgrade, sell off or loose redundant purchases. Not a great user experience, nor a reasonable modern expectation.



Agree completely. UAD seems to manage it, once you've bought a plug-in the system knows that and reduces the cost accordingly off any bundle you then look at which may happen to include what you already have.


----------



## jacobthestupendous

I'm psyched about the collectors edition. I bought in at K10U and have added nothing to it, despite being tempted by a couple of pieces of the Symphony Series, Reaktor 6, and some individual libraries. Not worth $600 to me now, but if I can step up to all of that for $300 sometime in the reasonable near future, then I'll absolutely do it.


----------



## Shubus

EvilDragon said:


> Nope. And I don't think it will be happening because literally all the content ever made for Kontakt is using bitmaps. So if that were resizeable (as in HiDPI), you'd get a blurry mess anyways. I mean HiDPI support for the Kontakt shell might happen, but for libraries, it's not so clear-cut.
> 
> 
> 
> K6 installs side by side with K5 so not really a problem there.


That is good to hear!


----------



## pderbidge

EvilDragon said:


> Nope. And I don't think it will be happening because literally all the content ever made for Kontakt is using bitmaps. So if that were resizeable (as in HiDPI), you'd get a blurry mess anyways. I mean HiDPI support for the Kontakt shell might happen, but for libraries, it's not so clear-cut.


I'm showing my programming ignorance here but when you talk about the challenge of making Kontakts gui resizable are you also referring to the possibility of perhaps just giving Kontakt the ability to maybe have 3 different sizes like a standard, Large, and Extra Large option? I get that it might not be possible to have that fluid resizable option but hoping that maybe an option to just make it bigger for these tired eyes, just maybe is that possible???


----------



## Ben

pderbidge said:


> ... the ability to maybe have 3 different sizes like a standard, Large, and Extra Large option? I get that it might not be possible to have that fluid resizable option but hoping that maybe an option to just make it bigger for these tired eyes, just maybe is that possible???


With VST3 even fluid resizeable GUIs are possible. But there are also some VST2 plugins that have different GUI scaling options (for example VSLs Synchron Player; works really great)


----------



## EvilDragon

pderbidge said:


> are you also referring to the possibility of perhaps just giving Kontakt the ability to maybe have 3 different sizes like a standard, Large, and Extra Large option?



Yes, it's all the same thing. Doesn't matter if it's fluidly resizeable or in fixed sizes.



Ben said:


> With VST3 even fluid resizeable GUIs are possible.



Fluidly resizeable GUIs are possible with VST2 as well (i.e. Valhalla, Madrona Labs). This is not up to VST2 vs VST3.


----------



## husker

zadillo said:


> I'm currently trying to sell my owned Expansions and Symphony Series. If I can get enough to basically cover the extra $200 cost for the Collectors Edition that's what I'll get.


My exact situation. Will be watching to see if Zadillo is able to sell his Symphony series - I may do the same.


----------



## Alex Fraser

From my experience selling NI stuff last year, buyers are looking for some *serious* discounting before they bite.


----------



## GregMalick

Since this is a pre-sale Event, is there any clue to how long the deals will go on? For example is the CU version temporary? When does the Massive X deal go away?

Or is this basically anybody's guess?


----------



## EvilDragon

Don't think CU version is temporary.


----------



## jononotbono

The upgrade from K10U to K12U is definitely worth it for me. Just for Kontakt 6, Reaktor 6 and Thrill alone. I've even decided to get one of the new NI S88 mk2 keyboards and see how it is (kind of useful putting Pitch and Mod wheels back on it). I figure that most controllers are horrible anyway so if this is designed with the software in mind then it could be a bonus.

Am I right in thinking that to get the Light Guide working with instruments hosted in VEPro I will have to put every instance of Kontakt into KK? And if so, does that have a massive impact on computer resources? Is anyone doing this with KK and VEPro?


----------



## C-Wave

jononotbono said:


> The upgrade from K10U to K12U is definitely worth it for me. Just for Kontakt 6, Reaktor 6 and Thrill alone. I've even decided to get one of the new NI S88 mk2 keyboards and see how it is (kind of useful putting Pitch and Mod wheels back on it). I figure that most controllers are horrible anyway so if this is designed with the software in mind then it could be a bonus.
> 
> Am I right in thinking that to get the Light Guide working with instruments hosted in VEPro I will have to put every instance of Kontakt into KK? And if so, does that have a massive impact on computer resources? Is anyone doing this with KK and VEPro?


Maybe we’re saying the same thing, but you don’t put every instrument of “kontakt”. Rather every instrument (that usually open in kontakt) will reside in one instance of Komplete Kontrol..and no it does not require more resources than kontakt.
I am a Cubase 9.5 user and i have each midi cubase track corresponding to one VEpro track with a KK intrument hosting one intrument, be it a kontakt intr. or any other.


----------



## Goldie Zwecker

I'm not sure i understood why the 300GB difference between KU12 and KU12 collector's edition. 
Looking at the comparison chart, they seem identical - and the only difference is that the regular KU12 has 20 expansions while KU12 collector's edition has 50 expansions. 
As someone with maschine that has almost all expansions i can say that each expansion ranges from 170mb to 1GB. Thirty expansions makes for 30GB, maybe. 
Certainly not 300GB. 

What i also don't get is if it's possible to get some sort of discount if i already bought some of the new instruments included in KU12. For example i already got sunburst electric guitar, kinetik toys, all of the offered expansions. Does someone know if Native Instruments agree to deduct the relative amount from the bundle?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Goldie Zwecker said:


> I'm not sure i understood why the 300GB difference between KU12 and KU12 collector's edition.
> Looking at the comparison chart, they seem identical - and the only difference is that the regular KU12 has 20 expansions while KU12 collector's edition has 50 expansions.



Most of the difference is the full versions of the Symphony Series come in the Collectors Edition - they are much bigger. The standard ultimate version only has the Symphony Series Essentials version.


----------



## Goldie Zwecker

mikeybabes said:


> Most of the difference is the full versions of the Symphony Series come in the Collectors Edition - they are much bigger. The standard ultimate version only has the Symphony Series Essentials version.


I see. 
Well, good for me. Not interested in the bigger version. The regular Komplete Ultimate 12 will do.
But what about instruments and expansions i already have? Do i end up paying twice for them - or can they be deducted from the bundle, relatively? Does anyone know?


----------



## KV626

I have KU11, I'm not sure I _need _KU12, but I absolutely want the full Symphony Series. I'll get the Collector's Edition as soon as I can.


----------



## Nao Gam

Alex Fraser said:


> From my experience selling NI stuff last year, buyers are looking for some *serious* discounting before they bite.


I bought symphony series brass from a guy here at 70€. Given that on sale the crossgrades at NI are 150€ I'd say sth like 100€ should be the starting point for anyone wanting to sell crossgrades.




Goldie Zwecker said:


> I see.
> Well, good for me. Not interested in the bigger version. The regular Komplete Ultimate 12 will do.
> But what about instruments and expansions i already have? Do i end up paying twice for them - or can they be deducted from the bundle, relatively? Does anyone know?


Yup, NI doesn't make deductions. You'll have to sell them. And you can't sell parts of a komplete bundle either


----------



## reutunes

jononotbono said:


> The upgrade from K10U to K12U is definitely worth it for me. Just for Kontakt 6, Reaktor 6 and Thrill alone. I've even decided to get one of the new NI S88 mk2 keyboards and see how it is (kind of useful putting Pitch and Mod wheels back on it). I figure that most controllers are horrible anyway so if this is designed with the software in mind then it could be a bonus.
> 
> Am I right in thinking that to get the Light Guide working with instruments hosted in VEPro I will have to put every instance of Kontakt into KK? And if so, does that have a massive impact on computer resources? Is anyone doing this with KK and VEPro?


Thrill is just "ok" imho


----------



## SamplesSlave

jononotbono said:


> The upgrade from K10U to K12U is definitely worth it for me. Just for Kontakt 6, Reaktor 6 and Thrill alone. I've even decided to get one of the new NI S88 mk2 keyboards and see how it is (kind of useful putting Pitch and Mod wheels back on it). I figure that most controllers are horrible anyway so if this is designed with the software in mind then it could be a bonus.
> 
> Am I right in thinking that to get the Light Guide working with instruments hosted in VEPro I will have to put every instance of Kontakt into KK? And if so, does that have a massive impact on computer resources? Is anyone doing this with KK and VEPro?



I have the NI S61 mk2, and it's pretty great. Nice weight to it, the keys and software are nice. To your point, it's a non-terrible solution in a sea of unsatisfying products.


----------



## jononotbono

SamplesSlave said:


> it's a non-terrible solution in a sea of unsatisfying products.



The best way anyone can ever describe the shit show that are Modern day Keyboard controllers.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I'll probably upgrade to the standard ultimate version, at least I will eventually. 

I'm one of those fools who actually believed NI when they said that the full Symphony Series would never be included in Komplete. I even bought it before they had their big sale on it - so I think I'm entitled to a bit of a sulk.


----------



## Alex Fraser

mikeybabes said:


> I'm one of those fools who actually believed NI when they said that the full Symphony Series would never be included in Komplete. I even bought it before they had their big sale on it - so I think I'm entitled to a bit of a sulk.


I think you are indeed entitled to a sulk! It was a bit underhand of NI here.
Inventing a new version of Komplete as a way to get around the previous statement was a bit sneaky.

At least it means that more people will get the Symphony series which is underrated imho.


----------



## sostenuto

Forcing 50 Expansions for those wanting Symphony Series hits a very sour chord imho. 
I use K11U content regularly and value it. Symphony Series and EDM are such different paths. 
Both are cool in their own ways, but there should be options to choose.


----------



## EvilDragon

Nobody forces you to buy K12UCE. And even if you buy it, nobody forces you to install what you don't need from the package? The point is that it's a bundle of stuff. There's plenty other "EDM" and "not-so-EDM" stuff in Komplete, so why single out the expansions?


----------



## jononotbono

reutunes said:


> Thrill is just "ok" imho



Ah man, well anything that's aleatoric and suspenseful but actually playable is a good thing to me! I can't wait to try it out!


----------



## Guy Rowland

mikeybabes said:


> I'll probably upgrade to the standard ultimate version, at least I will eventually.
> 
> I'm one of those fools who actually believed NI when they said that the full Symphony Series would never be included in Komplete. I even bought it before they had their big sale on it - so I think I'm entitled to a bit of a sulk.



Yes, sulk entitled. I feel slightly smug in that that's something I never believed for a second, and so it has come to pass. Same with Arturia's "we'll never discount more than this" on V Collection.


----------



## sostenuto

EvilDragon said:


> Nobody forces you to buy K12UCE. And even if you buy it, nobody forces you to install what you don't need from the package? The point is that it's a bundle of stuff. There's plenty other "EDM" and "not-so-EDM" stuff in Komplete, so why single out the expansions?



Niggle 'forcing' if you choose, but my point is clear in the post.


----------



## EvilDragon

Besides not all of those expansions are EDM oriented.


----------



## jbuhler

SamplesSlave said:


> I have the NI S61 mk2, and it's pretty great. Nice weight to it, the keys and software are nice. To your point, it's a non-terrible solution in a sea of unsatisfying products.


Now that NI finally updated the Komplete Kontrol software so you can control the lights, split and send out more than channel 1 from the keybed, it's a nice keyboard. Still, I wish that the mk2 would support Mackie like the mk1 did. It means quite a lot of functionality is lost if you use a DAW other than the supported ones.


----------



## Geoff Grace

C-Wave said:


> Maybe we’re saying the same thing, but you don’t put every instrument of “kontakt”. Rather every instrument (that usually open in kontakt) will reside in one instance of Komplete Kontrol..and no it does not require more resources than kontakt.


I don't see how that's possible. Everything that a computer boots up uses resources, so instantiating Komplete Kontrol and then loading Kontakt within it is bound to use more resources than just instantiating Kontakt alone. Of course, if each instance of Komplete Kontrol uses only a few MB of RAM, then the hit of using 40 or 50 instances would still be low by today's standards. I gather that the resources at least seem negligible, which is helpful. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## EvilDragon

Well, RAM load of KK is not exactly negligible. It's over 100 MB for the first instance and about 50 MB for each additional instance.



C-Wave said:


> and no it does not require more resources than kontakt.



Yes, yes it does.


----------



## Geoff Grace

So, if I'm doing the math correctly, it sounds like 50 instances of Komplete Kontrol would use roughly 2.5 GB RAM, in addition to the plugins they're hosting. That's worth considering. Thanks, *Mario*.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## jononotbono

Geoff Grace said:


> So, if I'm doing the math correctly, it sounds like 50 instances of Komplete Kontrol would use roughly 2.5 GB RAM, in addition to the plugins they're hosting. That's worth considering. Thanks, *Mario*.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



Totally acceptable. I’m definitely gonna go for the new Kontrol S88 after knowing this.


----------



## Andrew

EvilDragon said:


> Well, RAM load of KK is not exactly negligible. It's over 100 MB for the first instance and about 50 MB for each additional instance.



Good to know! What is the comparative RAM footprint of Kontakt if not using it within KK?

Thanks for all this useful info ED!


----------



## EvilDragon

I think I replied that already a few pages back, or in the K6 thread...

EDTI: Yep. https://vi-control.net/community/threads/kontakt-6.74727/page-4#post-4277367


----------



## Andrew

EvilDragon said:


> I think I replied that already a few pages back, or in the K6 thread...
> 
> EDTI: Yep. https://vi-control.net/community/threads/kontakt-6.74727/page-4#post-4277367



Sorry - I wasn't following that thread :O


----------



## redlester

Goldie Zwecker said:


> I'm not sure i understood why the 300GB difference between KU12 and KU12 collector's edition.
> Looking at the comparison chart, they seem identical - and the only difference is that the regular KU12 has 20 expansions while KU12 collector's edition has 50 expansions.
> As someone with maschine that has almost all expansions i can say that each expansion ranges from 170mb to 1GB. Thirty expansions makes for 30GB, maybe.
> Certainly not 300GB.



Is there anything documented regarding the actual disk space required to upgrade from KU11 to KU12CE, but *excluding the expansions*?
I currently have KU11 on a 1TB SSD with just 85GB free. The Expansions I have are on a seperate HDD with plenty of space and any new ones would go there. Am trying to work out if I might need to move my entire Komplete installation to the larger drive - I suspect so if the Symphony Series is part of it, but haven't decided what to do yet.

I could replace the 1TB SSD with a 2TB, but a £480 upgrade then suddenly becomes a £1000 upgrade!


----------



## Nao Gam

redlester said:


> Is there anything documented regarding the actual disk space required to upgrade from KU11 to KU12CE, but *excluding the expansions*?
> I currently have KU11 on a 1TB SSD with just 85GB free. The Expansions I have are on a seperate HDD with plenty of space and any new ones would go there. Am trying to work out if I might need to move my entire Komplete installation to the larger drive - I suspect so if the Symphony Series is part of it, but haven't decided what to do yet.
> 
> I could replace the 1TB SSD with a 2TB, but a £480 upgrade then suddenly becomes a £1000 upgrade!


Never fill your SSDs all the way! They need some empty space, that's how they work.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Theses are the size of the Symphony Series Libraries, as installed on my Mac (libraries will report a slightly different size on a PC)

Symphony Series Brass Ensemble: 29.09 Gb
Symphony Series Brass Solo: 18.88 Gb
Symphony Series Strings Ensemble: 34.13 Gb
Symphony Series Woodwinds Ensemble: 33.18 Gb
Symphony Series Woodwinds Solo: 21.47 Gb
Symphony Series Percussion: 29.13 Gb

Total roughly 165 gb

This is all documented on the NI Website, if you want to get the disk space required for the expansions.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Nao Gam said:


> Never fill your SSDs all the way! They need some empty space, that's how they work.



If you are only ever reading from them - does it matter ? Genuinely asking, as I cannot see how that would affect read times ?


----------



## Nao Gam

mikeybabes said:


> If you are only ever reading from them - does it matter ? Genuinely asking, as I cannot see how that would affect read times ?


Mmm possibly not. You still have cells degrading over time so some space is still necessary but given how slow the degradation process is, probably not much.
Of course if you want to install additional libraries or use a big library uncompressed that could be a problem.
Filling a disk up can still slow it down however, but I don't know the threshold above which this comes into play.

I've seen 30% recommended free space being thrown around the net but that's for small disks, big ones like 1tb need less


----------



## Tfis

mikeybabes said:


> If you are only ever reading from them - does it matter ? Genuinely asking, as I cannot see how that would affect read times ?



There's often a software provided by the SSD producer which allows you to set "over provisioning", what means that the SSD itself takes care not to be filled completely.


----------



## redlester

mikeybabes said:


> Theses are the size of the Symphony Series Libraries, as installed on my Mac (libraries will report a slightly different size on a PC)
> 
> Symphony Series Brass Ensemble: 29.09 Gb
> Symphony Series Brass Solo: 18.88 Gb
> Symphony Series Strings Ensemble: 34.13 Gb
> Symphony Series Woodwinds Ensemble: 33.18 Gb
> Symphony Series Woodwinds Solo: 21.47 Gb
> Symphony Series Percussion: 29.13 Gb
> 
> Total roughly 165 gb
> 
> This is all documented on the NI Website, if you want to get the disk space required for the expansions.



Thanks for this, and I've now found it on the web site. This is not exactly what i was getting at though. What I was after is the total additional space required to go from 11U to 12UCE including everything (Kontakt, Electric Sunburst, Thrill, etc.) So, regarding the Symphony Series that would relate to the extra disk space required to go from the Essentials version (11U) to the full version (12UCE).

For anyone else wondering, here are my findings (note, do NOT purchase any disk drives based on the below, this is very quick research for guidance only):

Symphony Series Strings: 31GB increase from Essentials
Symphony Series Brass: 40.5GB increase from Essentials
Symphony Series Percussion: 29GB increase (Essentials was not included in KU11)
Symphony Series Woodwind: 49.5GB increase from Essentials
Thrill: 42.6GB uncompressed
Electric Sunburst: 16GB uncompressed
Strummed Acoustic 2: 16GB uncompressed
Session Strings Pro 2: 69GB uncompressed
TRK-01: 120MB
Kontakt 6: Size not listed?
Discovery Series Middle East: 23GB uncompressed
Massive X: who knows!
Kinetic Toys: 3.5GB

There are probably one or two I've missed, but I make that just over at least 316GB increase, excluding Kontakt, Massive X and the smaller effects which have been added, so should probably allow around 350GB? All of this is ignoring the Expansions.

Similarly to go from KU11 to KU12 (not CE) would therefore be around 175GB increase, excluding Kontakt and the rest as above, but including Percussion Essentials.

Question; do people have Komplete Ultimate installations which span disk drives for space reasons, and is this easy to set up and keep track of in Native Access? Am thinking I could leave things as-is, but just install all the additional items on my larger HDD for now. I suppose am already sort of doing this with having the Expansions on that drive.


----------



## redlester

Nao Gam said:


> Mmm possibly not. You still have cells degrading over time so some space is still necessary but given how slow the degradation process is, probably not much.
> Of course if you want to install additional libraries or use a big library uncompressed that could be a problem.
> Filling a disk up can still slow it down however, but I don't know the threshold above which this comes into play.
> 
> I've seen 30% recommended free space being thrown around the net but that's for small disks, big ones like 1tb need less



Interesting. I guess am OK with my 85GB free on a 1TB, but shouldn't let it get much less than that? I've had no problems with the drive as it is.


----------



## Mornats

redlester said:


> Question; do people have Komplete Ultimate installations which span disk drives for space reasons, and is this easy to set up and keep track of in Native Access? Am thinking I could leave things as-is, but just install all the additional items on my larger HDD for now. I suppose am already sort of doing this with having the Expansions on that drive.



Yeah, I'm constantly moving my lesser-used K10U libraries from my SSD to a standard HDD. I just copy the sample folder across then tell Kontakt where they are next time I load it up. I'm on Windows 10 but I suspect you can do this on a Mac too. I don't think I had to do anything in Native Access and things seem to update no problem - at least so far and I've been doing this for a year or so


----------



## EvilDragon

Nao Gam said:


> Never fill your SSDs all the way! They need some empty space, that's how they work.



Nope, in case of sample libraries, feel absolutely free to fill them full, since it's just reading stuff.* Repeating in bold: do NOT use over-provisioning on your SSDs if all you use them for is sample libraries.*



Nao Gam said:


> You still have cells degrading over time



Only if you constantly write and delete stuff over. If you just use SSD for installing things once then reading many times, cells won't degrade.



Nao Gam said:


> Filling a disk up can still slow it down however



Only in case of new write/delete operations. Read speed remains the same no matter how full an SSD is. Tried and tested over here.


Let's please not spread misinformation around


----------



## DS_Joost

It's nice to see people turning around to the Symphony Series. It really is fantastic once you started molding it to how you want to use it. It might not be perfect out of the box, but that's what Kontakt is for, right?


----------



## redlester

Mornats said:


> Yeah, I'm constantly moving my lesser-used K10U libraries from my SSD to a standard HDD. I just copy the sample folder across then tell Kontakt where they are next time I load it up. I'm on Windows 10 but I suspect you can do this on a Mac too. I don't think I had to do anything in Native Access and things seem to update no problem - at least so far and I've been doing this for a year or so



Understood. I suppose if it's a case of a Kontakt library being moved one should do a batch resave after moving.

I would have thought as some of the products occasionally have updates the install path in Native Access would need to be changed though, so that it's able to install any future updates without problem?


----------



## EvilDragon

In case of moving libraries, why not use symlinks? Then you don't need to change any paths.


----------



## gamma-ut

redlester said:


> Understood. I suppose if it's a case of a Kontakt library being moved one should do a batch resave after moving.
> 
> I would have thought as some of the products occasionally have updates the install path in Native Access would need to be changed though, so that it's able to install any future updates without problem?



You can just relink the library in Kontakt – it will tell you it can't find the library you just moved. It's just a matter of going through a file dialogue. It will update the location for Native Access.


----------



## whiskers

may have been already asked, but what are the chances of a Black Friday sale? Hell freezing over?

ETA - trying to figure out if it would be better to go for K11U for a bit cheaper and wait for a sale on K12U CE


----------



## Guy Rowland

whiskers said:


> may have been already asked, but what are the chances of a Black Friday sale? Hell freezing over?



For Komplete itself yes. But IIRC they've sometimes put new individual products in Komplete into a 50% off sale in November / December. So a half price Kontakt update might not be entirely out of the question, perhaps.


----------



## whiskers

Guy Rowland said:


> For Komplete itself yes. But IIRC they've sometimes put new individual products in Komplete into a 50% off sale in November / December. So a half price Kontakt update might not be entirely out of the question, perhaps.



thanks. Most the reason I wanted 12 was also for the Symphonic collection, so may be better off with my initial idea of picking up K11U for cheaper and waiting. We shall see.

{ Was just watching your symphobia Lumina review/walkthrough. What a coincidence  }


----------



## Guy Rowland

whiskers said:


> { Was just watching your symphobia Lumina review/walkthrough. What a coincidence  }



Haunting, I'd imagine...


----------



## Alex Fraser

whiskers said:


> may have been already asked, but what are the chances of a Black Friday sale? Hell freezing over?
> 
> ETA - trying to figure out if it would be better to go for K11U for a bit cheaper and wait for a sale on K12U CE


If I was going to place a bet, it would be 50% off individual products this shopping season. And I think NI will introduce the sale fairly early so it’s clear to buyers there’s no discount to wait for on the new Komplete products. 

I think they’ll be a long wait for upgrade and Komplete discounts. 

My 2c anyhow.


----------



## sostenuto

EvilDragon said:


> Nope, in case of sample libraries, feel absolutely free to fill them full, sin*ce* it's just reading stuff.* Repeating in bold: do NOT use over-provisioning on your SSDs if all you use them for is sample libraries.*



I do NOT argue with your *BOLD *statement, however I noted in Samsung Magician that there is a 10% Default Over-provisioning setting for my various EVO 850 SSDs. (several 250GB & 500GB )
Samsung Support could not explain why I should not use over-provisioning for sample libs. However, they stated that I can go into Win10 Pro Disc settings and remove the 10% … I guess like a partition ?? 

Cab you advise?

Regards


----------



## EvilDragon

Hmmm, no, Disk Management in Windows doesn't show overprovisioning per drive. It's not a partition.


----------



## sostenuto

EvilDragon said:


> Hmmm, no, Disk Management in Windows doesn't show overprovisioning per drive. It's not a partition.


 
Right … _unallocated_ 

I was surprised, as I thought I could simply reset the 10% to 0% in Magician, but that was not what he suggested ??


----------



## whiskers

Alex Fraser said:


> If I was going to place a bet, it would be 50% off individual products this shopping season. And I think NI will introduce the sale fairly early so it’s clear to buyers there’s no discount to wait for on the new Komplete products.
> 
> I think they’ll be a long wait for upgrade and Komplete discounts.
> 
> My 2c anyhow.



Thanks for your thoughts; sounds like i'm better off finding a good price on a K11U copy and waiting for a sale on K12U CE later (which as you mentioned will probably be a year ish)


----------



## EvilDragon

sostenuto said:


> Right … _unallocated_
> 
> I was surprised, as I thought I could simply reset the 10% to 0% in Magician, but that was not what he suggested ??



Nope, doesn't even show it as unallocated. You should be able to disable OP in Magician, IIRC.


----------



## BezO

GtrString said:


> ...(wish there was a 61 keys weighted option)...


I'd be happy with a 73-Key weighted option. The 88-Key version is too big from my keyboard tray.



reutunes said:


> Thrill is just "ok" imho


Same feeling. Much more atonal patches & less playability than I expected. I dig the sound though.



Geoff Grace said:


> So, if I'm doing the math correctly, it sounds like 50 instances of Komplete Kontrol would use roughly 2.5 GB RAM, in addition to the plugins they're hosting. That's worth considering.


As part of the 16GB gang, that seems like a lot.



Nao Gam said:


> Never fill your SSDs all the way! They need some empty space, that's how they work.


I've heard this but never with any detail. How much space should be left? I'm eyeing a 2TB drive now as I'm down to 80GB of empty space on my 1TB drive.

Edit: And this is now the 1st I'm hearing that this is NOT an issue if I'm only reading samples from it. I've not had any trouble, so this sounds legit. But I'm anticipating a few purchases very soon. I'll hold off on a new drive purchase until necessary.


----------



## EvilDragon

Just don't worry about it and fill your sample SSDs up to the brim.


----------



## Nao Gam

EvilDragon said:


> Just don't worry about it and fill your sample SSDs up to the brim.


Shouldn't we at least leave enough room for the biggest lib on the disk to expand? Some of them are pretty big.
Totally schooled my ass before btw


----------



## EvilDragon

You mean when unpacking? Unpack to a platter drive, then move to SSD. Saves on write/delete cycles this way.


----------



## NYC Composer

Not that I know anything about it, but to reiterate what ED said-my 6 SSDs are 1TB and I only have 10 gigabytes free on some of them. No difference in speed that I’ve noticed.


----------



## Nao Gam

EvilDragon said:


> You mean when unpacking? Unpack to a platter drive, then move to SSD. Saves on write/delete cycles this way.


No not what I mean (interesting tip tho) aren't libraries compressed to save space when not in use (like NI lossless compression)? Don't they expand when you use them? Like take SSS for example. https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-symphonic-strings/ Do 101.8 gb become 147.6 gb when used? Or is it just the patches used that expand?
Sorry if I'm being a dumb noob here


----------



## EvilDragon

NCW lossless compression is decoded on playback in realtime... It's like playing an MP3, it's just lossless instead of lossy.


----------



## BezO

EvilDragon said:


> You mean when unpacking? Unpack to a platter drive, then move to SSD. Saves on write/delete cycles this way.


Unpacking? Platter drive? Can you define those for the uninformed like myself. This sounds like a tip I need to follow, but I may not understand.


----------



## EvilDragon

Some libraries (espeically large ones) may come packed in ZIP or RAR files. Platter drive is your regular HDD, "spinning rust". Not SSD.


----------



## pderbidge

Since I own K11U, it looks like the products that interest me in K12U are:

Massive X
Electric Sunburst
and maybe Thrill and Symphony Essentials percussion but these are more nice to haves so I'm not going to count them in my cost analysis.

Given that some of these will eventually be on a 50% sale it seems that as long as I hold out for a K12U 50% off update sale it will be about sixes. I might wait for K13U instead. We'll see.


----------



## zeng

I have K11U, and I also bough Electric Sunburst and Thrill. Will these products be discounted if I buy K12U upgarde?


----------



## EvilDragon

Nope. You can upgrade to K12U then sell the individual products.


----------



## zeng

Really, wow...If I cannot sell? Why doesn't NI system exclude purchased libraries cleverly?? Where in 2018. That's a good reason to not to upgrade dor me...


----------



## Alex Fraser

zeng said:


> Really, wow...If I cannot sell? Why doesn't NI system exclude purchased libraries cleverly?? Where in 2018. That's a good reason to not to upgrade dor me...


It’s not a technical decision, it’s a business one. At least they make reselling your libraries easy.


----------



## zadillo

zeng said:


> Really, wow...If I cannot sell? Why doesn't NI system exclude purchased libraries cleverly?? Where in 2018. That's a good reason to not to upgrade dor me...



The problem is that the Komplete bundle already represents a pretty huge discount over the actual prices of the things that comprise it. The question you have to ask yourself really is if the upgrade price is worth it to get the things you don't have besides Thrill and Electric Sunburst. 

If you don't care about the other things in it enough to justify the upgrade price, then your best bet is skipping the upgrade. If you do care, as suggested, you can try selling Thrill and Sunburst.

It would be nice if the money paid for previous products could somehow be credited, but at the same time, the value of the Komplete package is still such that even if you own some components of it, you're still probably saving money. 

I mean, I paid quite a bit for the Symphony Series, so it's a bit of a bummer that I don't get any extra credit for upgrading to the Collectors Edition - but it is what it is. I've been working on selling them instead - again, at least they make it possible to sell the things you already own and don't even charge transfer fees. 

But again, if the value isn't there for you, your best bet is to hold off til the next Komplete package, or buy just the components you do care about.

It's essentially a bundle of convenience and value, but not really designed to always be an even better deal for customers who buy things individually. 

Like, it's got to be a bummer for someone especially who paid full price for something like Thrill. But they also got a year and a half of use out of it that was probably worth it.


----------



## KV626

I'm wondering...if I buy KU12 CE today, are the existing products available right away or do I have to wait until oct. 1st for the whole package?


----------



## zadillo

KV626 said:


> I'm wondering...if I buy KU12 CE today, are the existing products available right away or do I have to wait until oct. 1st for the whole package?



No, they aren't.


----------



## puremusic

Hmm.. Hard to decide for me, I can upgrade just Kontakt, or I could go for K12 regular from K11. Not sure what K12 offers is worth it to me. I'm not saying it's not worth it generally, but the only thing that interests me personally is Massive X, which I know nothing about save a small screenshot. Perhaps I should skip a version and save that 100 bucks for something I really want.


----------



## KarlHeinz

> I can upgrade just Kontakt, or I could go for K12 regular from K11. Not sure what K12 offers is worth it to me



Same consideration here.....I think the 3 new instruments in Kontakt 6 would justify an upgrade, what comes with K12 - apart from the black box massive x - is not really so much interesting for me.

And I dont think there will be a 50 % update soon what would be my preferred option, then I wont think about Kontakt or Komplete 12 update for 99 €......

I am thinking about the time and space offer actually:

https://www.timespace.com/products/native-instruments-komplete-12?variant=13247791857777

Its at least 35 € cheaper then the regular NI offer and you get the Go2 synth as an addon...

Wonder if there will be anything more interesting in black friday/christmas this year cause I dont like to wait till summer 2019...


----------



## Geoff Grace

Yeah, you've got to be patient to get the best deals. When I finally upgrade (presumably) next summer from Komplete Ultimate 10 to Komplete Ultimate 12 Collector's Edition, I will have waited four years; but I'll get a great deal in the bargain.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## puremusic

Thanks Karl, wasn't aware of that deal. For 60 bucks more than the Kontakt alone upgrade, which is a must have, it'd be worth it for me.


----------



## whiskers

KarlHeinz said:


> Same consideration here.....I think the 3 new instruments in Kontakt 6 would justify an upgrade, what comes with K12 - apart from the black box massive x - is not really so much interesting for me.
> 
> And I dont think there will be a 50 % update soon what would be my preferred option, then I wont think about Kontakt or Komplete 12 update for 99 €......
> 
> I am thinking about the time and space offer actually:
> 
> https://www.timespace.com/products/native-instruments-komplete-12?variant=13247791857777
> 
> Its at least 35 € cheaper then the regular NI offer and you get the Go2 synth as an addon...
> 
> Wonder if there will be anything more interesting in black friday/christmas this year cause I dont like to wait till summer 2019...



How long do you think it would be before the K12 Update is on sale? I guess no way to know. Probably summer?

T&S deal for NI K12 CE upgrade from Ultimate seems like a decent deal for 485$... just not sure how long i'd be waiting otherwise. Pre-order Komplete 12 + get Go2 for free


----------



## puremusic

n9n9n9 said:


> Those "ways" of supporting MPE are absolutely brutal to implement yourself. And it isn't MPE they are supporting but round-robin MIDI channel inputs, which is itself pretty hard to get going in a lot of DAWs and doesn't really support proper recording and editing of MIDI.
> 
> But just for the record in my work this is what needs to be done in Kontakt to get something working w MPE:
> 
> * take a sample preset, say Spitfire Symphonic Swarm Clarinet Whispers
> * Edit that preset to support the controllers that I want to use with my ROLI controller: pressure, up/updown
> * Make that preset mono
> * Then duplicate the edited preset x times (however much polyphony you want, I do six)
> * Set each duplicated instance to receive a different MIDI input
> * Save that one preset
> 
> I mention this to gripe, but also since I have EvilDragon's attention... could be that this is the dumb way to do it. But it takes about 15min per preset that you want to convert, at least this way.
> 
> Slate+Ash made multis but when I asked them how they said they did all this and more for 16 notes of poly, by hand, and that it was incredibly labor intensive.



I'm quite impressed you've managed to get it to work. I've on and off tried to and can't so far.


----------



## EvilDragon

whiskers said:


> How long do you think it would be before the K12 Update is on sale? I guess no way to know. Probably summer?



Yeah, summer 2020, probably. Going by current patterns.


----------



## whiskers

EvilDragon said:


> Yeah, summer 2020, probably. Going by current patterns.


so if i knew i wanted to upgrade to 12 CE, this might be a good deal to bite on. I guess the question then is will Time+Space or other resellers have it any cheaper than 485$ around Nov/Black Friday. hmmm.


----------



## Rap-sody

As far as I know, there's no sale on Komplete on Black Friday following a recent release in Fall.

If I remember currently, there was upgrade sales in the spring after for the 2 latest Komplete versions. So it should be summer 2019 probably.


----------



## whiskers

EvilDragon said:


> Yeah, summer 2020, probably. Going by current patterns.





Rap-sody said:


> As far as I know, there's no sale on Komplete on Black Friday following a recent release in Fall.
> 
> If I remember currently, there was upgrade sales in the spring after for the 2 latest Komplete versions. So it should be summer 2019 probably.



welp, managed to get the K12U CE upgrade for 500$...seemed like a better deal than I'd find elsewhere, so I went for it. Have 90 days price protection on my card if something were to be cheaper.

Still not sure if this was a mistake, but i wanted it


----------



## Guy Rowland

EvilDragon said:


> Yeah, summer 2020, probably. Going by current patterns.



Oh, really? My memory was it was the summer following release of a new version, so I was expecting summer 2019.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Curiosity got the better of me. In 2017 there was indeed a half price upgrade sale in June, 9 months after Komplete 11's release - https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6798268 . So moderately confident the half price upgrade sale for Komplete 12 will be June 2019.


----------



## Geoff Grace

Perhaps *Mario* was trying too hard to have 2020 vision, and it got the better of him. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## EvilDragon

Actually, I do have 20/20 vision. In fact, perhaps even 20/30. 

I ate lots of raw carrots when I was a kid. Loved the crispiness of them.


----------



## Goldie Zwecker

I'm more or less in the same dilemma. 
I don't know what's the meaning of upgrading to Kontakt 6. Is it possible that 3rd party libraries upgrade theirs accordingly - and then whoever stays with the older 5.xxx Kontakt will have problems playing the libraries on the older platform? 

Anyway, i have KU11 and also bought some of the products included in KU12/KU12 CE along the way. I got the sessions guitarist (acoustic and sunburst), kinetic toys - and because i have Maschine i have almost all expansions - besides the last 4. 

So upgrading to KU12 means getting Thrill, TRK 01, massive x, kontakt 6, session strings pro 2, discovery series - middle east, the new fx (mod pack and crush pack) - and if i go for the Collectors edition i also get the complete symphony series and then also some of the expansions are the ones i don't have. 
As for the symphony series, i'm not sure i need it - although in the context of this bundle it's a bargain. I have the spitfire series (orchestral strings, brass, woodwinds, chamber strings), "The orchestra", the sonokinetic phrase libraries (maximo, grosso etc etc), and the hybrid stuff from Heavyocity (Novo, Forzo) - so the symphony series from NI seems a bit redundant in this context, doesn't it?

A penny for your thoughts (and $500 for your upgarde)


----------



## jbuhler

Goldie Zwecker said:


> I'm more or less in the same dilemma.
> I don't know what's the meaning of upgrading to Kontakt 6. Is it possible that 3rd party libraries upgrade theirs accordingly - and then whoever stays with the older 5.xxx Kontakt will have problems playing the libraries on the older platform?


Assuming that NI handles the upgrade to Kontakt 6 like they did Reaktor, you'll be able to install the Kontakt 6 Player along side the full version of Kontakt 5. I doubt many non-Player libraries will move to Kontakt 6 until the first deeply discounted deals on Kontakt and the upgrades to the Komplete bundles appear. So you can probably safely wait. And I don't think there is any cost to waiting until you encounter a library that requires the full version of Kontakt 6.


----------



## EvilDragon

K6 does install alongside K5 or any previous version of Kontakt.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

whiskers said:


> How long do you think it would be before the K12 Update is on sale? I guess no way to know. Probably summer?
> 
> T&S deal for NI K12 CE upgrade from Ultimate seems like a decent deal for 485$... just not sure how long i'd be waiting otherwise. Pre-order Komplete 12 + get Go2 for free


Are you able to buy Komplete as a download from T&S? On the site it says it is only available in a boxed version. As far as I know you can only get Komplete as a download from NI. You're in the US, right? 

I'm not aware of any US online stores offering discounts on Komplete. JRRShop isn't. I usually go with Musician's Friend for purchases like this because you get Backstage Pass points, which are the equivalent of an 8% discount if you use them.

I feel confident that the NI half-price sale will be by early summer. But sometimes they do sales in the spring, although I'm not sure if they've ever done that right after a new release of Komplete. 

There's information on the history of NI sales HERE It's an old post, but the attached worksheet goes from 2004 to early this year.


----------



## zadillo

TigerTheFrog said:


> Are you able to buy Komplete as a download from T&S? On the site it says it is only available in a boxed version. As far as I know you can only get Komplete as a download from NI. You're in the US, right?



Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you buy the boxed version of Komplete, once you've registered it to your account, you should be able to download as well. Based on that, I'm not sure I see a great reason to not get the boxed version, especially if it's $485 from T&S versus $599 from NI. Unless you absolutely need to be able to download everything as soon as it's available instead of waiting a few days for the box to ship.

I am a little confused why T&S lists the normal price of the collector's edition as $519 when it's $599 from NI. It seems like a no-brainer to order it from them.


----------



## Guy Rowland

If you are in the US and import from the UK from a company that ships there, I presume it will be subject to import duties at the USA end.


----------



## zadillo

Guy Rowland said:


> If you are in the US and import from the UK from a company that ships there, I presume it will be subject to import duties at the USA end.



Ahh, that would change the equation.


----------



## KarlHeinz

Dont know if its obvious to evrybody (for me it was not...): "Free shipping" only works for GB/UK. So for germany (I think it will be the same for most part of the EU) it really only makes the deal interesting if you dont want to wait for NI update deal and have faith that shipping works the same (in germany of course with NI thats kind of assured inside one country) and you are interested in the Go2. With adding shipping costs the difference only is about 20 €. I am still thinking (even if I posted the TS link in here).


----------



## procreative

I have not upgraded since K9 Ultimate as every time they announce the next version I already have most of the new products I am after as I get tempted on release or when they have those 50% sales (most recent example bought Thrill and India in last Xmas sale).

So in the Ultimate upgrade only things in it that might tempt me are Kontakt 6, Massive X, Session Horns Pro, Middle East, Session Guitarist Electric.

There is also Cuba, Session Strings Pro 2, Kinetic Metal and Kinetic Toys but not so bothered about those.

Not sure £309 is enough of a carrot.

And also pretty flat about Kontakt 6 as I am not a developer so the "new features" don't excite me and I expect if I need to run new K6 player libraries I could run the K6 Player plugin alongside K5.


----------



## Rap-sody

KarlHeinz said:


> Dont know if its obvious to evrybody (for me it was not...): "Free shipping" only works for GB/UK. So for germany (I think it will be the same for most part of the EU) it really only makes the deal interesting if you dont want to wait for NI update deal and have faith that shipping works the same (in germany of course with NI thats kind of assured inside one country) and you are interested in the Go2. With adding shipping costs the difference only is about 20 €. I am still thinking (even if I posted the TS link in here).


I got KU11 on sale from Time space a while ago. At that time, I could get a picture sent from them from the serial inside the box. They refunded me the shipping, since they sent me only the serial by email. You should contact them about this possibility.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Rap-sody said:


> I got KU11 on sale from Time space a while ago. At that time, I could get a picture sent from them from the serial inside the box. They refunded me the shipping, since they sent me only the serial by email. You should contact them about this possibility.


I checked and they are willing to do this.

They seem like the best deal going right now. First, their price is the lowest I've seen. Second, for a limited time, they are offering free copies of Rob Papen's Go2 ($50) with every purchase; and third, you get loyalty points with them, which reduces the price even further.


----------



## husker

And now their price has gone up to $499


----------



## MillsMixx

Finally!

https://www.native-instruments.com/...ent+b=Komplete+t=Release_PD&utm_content=owned


----------



## JonSolo

Guy Rowland said:


> If you are in the US and import from the UK from a company that ships there, I presume it will be subject to import duties at the USA end.



Should not apply since the value is under $2500, if you are the end user. And they send via Royal Mail...so tax and duty free usually.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

JonSolo said:


> Should not apply since the value is under $2500, if you are the end user. And they send via Royal Mail...so tax and duty free usually.


I've done a lot of reading and that is commonly thought to be true, but is not necessarily true. I contacted Fedex and the woman told me there is a $20 fee immediately on software. As to any additional duties, she said I would have to contact a broker. All tariffs are in flux in the US because of our President's peculiar economic notions, so we can't let the past assure us what's true today. 

Anyway, I won't buy from T&S unless they can assure me it's serial only. I don't need the hard drive.


----------



## JonSolo

For the record, T&S is willing to go the long haul...even sending me the serial in advance of sending the box, or refunding my shipping and send nothing. Great bunch of guys over there!


----------



## whiskers

JonSolo said:


> For the record, T&S is willing to go the long haul...even sending me the serial in advance of sending the box, or refunding my shipping and send nothing. Great bunch of guys over there!


I ordered mine the day the deal was announced I believe, any idea when the boxed version will be shipping?


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

JonSolo said:


> For the record, T&S is willing to go the long haul...even sending me the serial in advance of sending the box, or refunding my shipping and send nothing. Great bunch of guys over there!


I've already made my purchase of the KU12 upgrade. I've asked them not to send the box and to refund shipping costs. The serial number is all I need. I'm actually more excited about Rob Papen's Go2 than many of the things that come with Komplete 12 Ultimate--for example, the expansions.

Everything goes out Monday, October 1st.


----------



## whiskers

TigerTheFrog said:


> I've already made my purchase of the KU12 upgrade. I've asked them not to send the box and to refund shipping costs. The serial number is all I need. I'm actually more excited about Rob Papen's Go2 than many of the things that come with Komplete 12 Ultimate--for example, the expansions.
> 
> Everything goes out Monday, October 1st.


curious without derailing the thread what makes you excited for Go2? I'm trying to figure out whether i'd keep or try to sell. What in your mind makes it different or special from other softsynths?


----------



## JonSolo

TigerTheFrog said:


> I've already made my purchase of the KU12 upgrade. I've asked them not to send the box and to refund shipping costs. The serial number is all I need. I'm actually more excited about Rob Papen's Go2 than many of the things that come with Komplete 12 Ultimate--for example, the expansions.
> 
> Everything goes out Monday, October 1st.


I did not see Go2 as an offer. Do they just add to my account? Or did I need to enter a code?


----------



## whiskers

JonSolo said:


> I did not see Go2 as an offer. Do they just add to my account? Or did I need to enter a code?


I believe they said they'd email a serial once the Komplete 12 order shipped on 10/1


----------



## JonSolo

whiskers said:


> I believe they said they'd email a serial once the Komplete 12 order shipped on 10/1


Nice. I have it already and it is a good product. I'll just have an extra to trade. Excited to see a few of the products I am missing.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

whiskers said:


> curious without derailing the thread what makes you excited for Go2? I'm trying to figure out whether I'd keep or try to sell. What in your mind makes it different or special from other softsynths?


I've been watching videos about it since it came out. I have a lot of complicated synths with infinite options, but sometimes I just like simple one-page synths like many I have on the iPad (Sunrizer, Magellan, Synth One, etc) I can take a look at it and generally I know how to program it. I like that it is driven by a loopable XY pad that allows you to morph between the two oscillators (plus other assignable modulation). It's not just about the basic sounds (sort of 80s Jupiter-8, which I personally love) as the interesting movement I can get by modulating between the two osciallators in different ways. Another thing that intrigued me right off the bat was the sequencer allows you to put in chords in each step. Papen released it with a ton of presets, but I believe he added some after that--it's 750 now, organized in bank folders in a nice preset manager.

In short, I think this is a synth I will actually use and enjoy. But it's personal. Maybe it won't be for you.



I'm not crazy about this preset video. I know I can do better with the chord feature on the arps. But here it is.


----------



## StillLife

TigerTheFrog said:


> I've already made my purchase of the KU12 upgrade. I've asked them not to send the box and to refund shipping costs. The serial number is all I need. I'm actually more excited about Rob Papen's Go2 than many of the things that come with Komplete 12 Ultimate--for example, the expansions.
> 
> Everything goes out Monday, October 1st.



I always bought the boxed version of Komplete. How does it work when you don't? You just fill in the serial in Native Acces and all products show up in the download section?


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

StillLife said:


> I always bought the boxed version of Komplete. How does it work when you don't? You just fill in the serial in Native Acces and all products show up in the download section?


I think so. All my Komplete Ultimate libraries have the same serial.


----------



## whiskers

am I the only one around here who'd actually prefer the box? . Maybe I just dont trust my ISP to download all that. Cant wait to get it. Should be about a week.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

whiskers said:


> am I the only one around here who'd actually prefer the box? . Maybe I just dont trust my ISP to download all that. Cant wait to get it. Should be about a week.


I totally get that if you have a slow ISP. Mine is very fast and I don't mind downloading them one or two at a time. My box went on the shelf pretty fast as so many of these things get regular updates.


----------



## Lode_Runner

whiskers said:


> am I the only one around here who'd actually prefer the box? . Maybe I just dont trust my ISP to download all that. Cant wait to get it. Should be about a week.


I'd prefer the box too


----------



## sostenuto

Another day for Best Service.de offer, which provides K12 ULTIMATE Collectors Edition UPGRADE from ULTIMATE 8-12, either way (box /dnld), at $572.96 …. ++ 71.34 BestCoin …. which gives ~71.34 Euro to spend on other BestService offerings. 
This is what I read, but stand to be corrected if in error. 
K12 Ultimate UPGRADE is $378.41 ++ BestCoin.

Seems another good option ??


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

sostenuto said:


> Another day for Best Service.de offer, which provides K12 ULTIMATE Collectors Edition UPGRADE from ULTIMATE 8-12, either way (box /dnld), at $572.96 …. ++ 71.34 BestCoin …. which gives ~71.34 Euro to spend on other BestService offerings.
> This is what I read, but stand to be corrected if in error.
> K12 Ultimate UPGRADE is $378.41 ++ BestCoin.


It sounds like these deals are very similar, except that T+S and Best Service split the price vs points differently.

$573 - $71 is more or less the same as the $499 T+S charges.
But T+S Loyalty points get you down to $475 or $470. And you get a free copy of Go2.

Both deals are better than anything offered in the US, but I give the edge to T+S.


----------



## sostenuto

TigerTheFrog said:


> It sounds like these deals are very similar, except that T+S and Best Service split the price vs points differently.
> 
> $573 - $71 is more or less the same as the $499 T+S charges.
> But T+S Loyalty points get you down to $475 or $470. And you get a free copy of Go2.
> 
> Both deals are better than anything offered in the US, but I give the edge to T+S.



Thank-you for useful comparison. 
I have specific additional purchase need … Ethera 2 .... which BestService has on sale currently. I would use the BestCoin for that purchase. 
It is worth me checking carefully with T+S to see how this could work.

Regards


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

If you're interested in the Go2 offer, make sure it is still up on the site. It's a limited quantity offer. 
It's up on the site now, but will be over on Monday when KU12 comes out.


----------



## karusz

I have just preordered S88 MK-II Keyboard. My question, When you use legit or non legit libraries -I like the cked version of Kontakt because of an idea to be free, but does it mean Native Access when you run it it tells out about all my samples installed on my HDD and visible in Kontakt? What is a demo version and what has been registered? Am I sharing out this info? What about privacy here?


----------



## JonSolo

Yes that really just got posted ha ha!


----------



## J-M

Where is the downvote button...


----------



## Zhao Shen

karusz said:


> I have just preordered S88 MK-II Keyboard. My question, When you use legit or non legit libraries -I like the cked version of Kontakt because of an idea to be free, but does it mean Native Access when you run it it tells out about all my samples installed on my HDD and visible in Kontakt? What is a demo version and what has been registered? Am I sharing out this info? What about privacy here?


The answer to your question - stop being cheap and buy everything legitimately. If you can't afford it, start with the millions of high quality free and inexpensive sample packs out there - it's usually not the samples that hold people back anyway. If you can afford it and still torrent cracked libraries then you really don't belong here and can fuck right off.


----------



## karusz

I definitely agree and I buy everything. NI Access is a great thing as you do not need to plug-in a USB for every library, like for example with EastWest (when you use 2 computers for work swaping them). My question is only about privacy and sending data out, but this is a problem of all the internet today.


----------



## JonSolo

Privacy? What is that? Ha.

Many license agreements have clauses that allow for some information to be sent to the dev. When you connect to your ISP, they have your computer ID, computer name, your OS and its version number as well as your browser and its version number. Every program that connects you to the internet sends all of that same data to your ISP. Additionally some programs report the actions of DLL files to their devs. This serves many fantastic purposes.

My DAW is only connected to snag updates or larger downloads. It is not so much as issue of privacy as it is a performance desire. I have no personal information on my DAW anyway so...

And do you make any online payments (oh yea you HAVE to, to have most of this software)? Then screw privacy.

If anyone on the internet is really concerned about privacy, it is time to unplug for good. It just does not exist.

I think you may be more concerned with a similar sounding word- piracy.


----------



## jacobthestupendous

Been a minute since we heard from @Quasar on this subject... 
:emoji_popcorn:

PS - when did we get all the new emoticon/emoji/picture thing options?


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

I started this thread on February 1st and predicted that Komplete 12 would come out by August or September. 
I finally got Komplete Ultimate 12 today.

Time+Space sent me the serial number and refunded the shipping costs, exactly as they said they would. Once I put the serial number into Native Access, I had all the Komplete Ultimate 12 instruments, ready for download. I have very fast internet, so I got the ones I'm most interested in very quickly. 

Once you register Kontakt, NI emails you about the three Kontakt Play instruments (Analog Dreams, Ethereal Earth, Hybrid Keys) and Creator Tools for Kontakt. Once I logged out of Native Access and logged back in they showed up as ready for download. They don't require serial numbers. Of the three Kontakt synths, so far I like Hybrid Keys the most, and it's the one I expected to have the least use for. You can combine two sound sources, taking from the categories: acoustics, electrics, harpsichords, mallets, organs, synthy. There's a lot in there for lovers of ambient and hybrid piano/key lovers. Very FrozenPlain.

So far my favorite thing is the Middle Eastern Library. 

In addition to the $25 e-voucher, NI sent me an email offering two months of free sounds at Sounds.com, but I don't know if that is a coincidence and everybody on the NI mailing list got it.

For those of you who feel that the hard drive is essential, you should be aware that some of these VIs are already in later versions. It's now Kontakt 6.0.2, for example. So you may have to download some of them anyway. But definitely, it's a big advantage if your ISP is slow.

The biggest problem I've encountered so far is when I loaded up Kontakt 6 (which they just call "Kontakt" now), there was nothing in my Quickload. Aargh! Before I went running in panic to @EvilDragon for help, I found this thread which shows where the Kontakt 5 Quickload files are and I copied them over. Problem solved!

I'm hoping that Time+Space will send the serial for Go2 tomorrow, but I'm not too worried, as I have my hands full with KU12. I wrote before that that offer ends today, but that doesn't seem to be the case. They say it's a limited quantity offer, but it's still up on their site last time I looked.


----------



## JonSolo

I want to add to the above post-

Time and Space sent my serial to me for the Collector's Edition as well as shipped my HD. Very kind of them.

With the Collector's Edition you actually get about 9 separate downloadable products that show up on your Native Instruments products and serials page in addition to the ones mentioned. You can copy the serials from there into your Native Access and they are instantly ready for download.

I too got the voucher, however there is nothing, outside of Tracktor that I don't already have...so I will just have to wait till their Xmas offering to see what I can snag, heh.


----------



## jcrosby

karusz said:


> I have just preordered S88 MK-II Keyboard. My question, When you use legit or non legit libraries -I like the cked version of Kontakt because of an idea to be free, but does it mean Native Access when you run it it tells out about all my samples installed on my HDD and visible in Kontakt? What is a demo version and what has been registered? Am I sharing out this info? What about privacy here?



You're on the wrong forum if you're looking for answers about using cracked software. This is a forum where users compose for a living and buy their tools. A working musicians forum you could say...

Anyway, your post also begs the question:
If you shelled out *$1000* for an S88 MKII why wouldn't you shell out the money for Komplete or Komplete Ultimate? And, since you bought the 88 key version you obviously play with some skill. So again, why not just do the right thing and buy K.U.?

This is the thing I don't get about people using cracked software.
You'll spend money on a computer. You'll spend money on a keyboard, headphones, speakers, and an audio interface... All of which aren't exactly cheap, (especially an S88.) The one thing you don't spend money on?

The actual software instruments you've bought all of that hardware to use in the first place.... Doesn't really make much sense now does it?

Carry on!!


----------



## Quasar

jacobthestupendous said:


> Been a minute since we heard from @Quasar on this subject...
> :emoji_popcorn:
> 
> PS - when did we get all the new emoticon/emoji/picture thing options?



I have nothing to say about K12. Native Instruments is dead to me. Have fun.


----------



## Guy Rowland

TigerTheFrog said:


> I started this thread on February 1st and predicted that Komplete 12 would come out by August or September.
> I finally got Komplete Ultimate 12 today.
> 
> Time+Space sent me the serial number and refunded the shipping costs, exactly as they said they would. Once I put the serial number into Native Access, I had all the Komplete Ultimate 12 instruments, ready for download. I have very fast internet, so I got the ones I'm most interested in very quickly.
> 
> Once you register Kontakt, NI emails you about the three Kontakt Play instruments (Analog Dreams, Ethereal Earth, Hybrid Keys) and Creator Tools for Kontakt. Once I logged out of Native Access and logged back in they showed up as ready for download. They don't require serial numbers. Of the three Kontakt synths, so far I like Hybrid Keys the most, and it's the one I expected to have the least use for. You can combine two sound sources, taking from the categories: acoustics, electrics, harpsichords, mallets, organs, synthy. There's a lot in there for lovers of ambient and hybrid piano/key lovers. Very FrozenPlain.
> 
> So far my favorite thing is the Middle Eastern Library.
> 
> In addition to the $25 e-voucher, NI sent me an email offering two months of free sounds at Sounds.com, but I don't know if that is a coincidence and everybody on the NI mailing list got it.
> 
> For those of you who feel that the hard drive is essential, you should be aware that some of these VIs are already in later versions. It's now Kontakt 6.0.2, for example. So you may have to download some of them anyway. But definitely, it's a big advantage if your ISP is slow.
> 
> The biggest problem I've encountered so far is when I loaded up Kontakt 6 (which they just call "Kontakt" now), there was nothing in my Quickload. Aargh! Before I went running in panic to @EvilDragon for help, I found this thread which shows where the Kontakt 5 Quickload files are and I copied them over. Problem solved!
> 
> I'm hoping that Time+Space will send the serial for Go2 tomorrow, but I'm not too worried, as I have my hands full with KU12. I wrote before that that offer ends today, but that doesn't seem to be the case. They say it's a limited quantity offer, but it's still up on their site last time I looked.



Thanks for the info - any early thoughts on Kontakt (6)? I'm presuming it performs much the same as 5? Does it still take 72 hours to move a library tab from top to bottom?


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## EvilDragon

Yes it does. 

Performance-wise, it's all the same. Well, the new delay and algoverbs can take a bit of CPU, but that's really top-notch DSP happening there, so it's fair game.


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## Reid Rosefelt

Guy Rowland said:


> Thanks for the info - any early thoughts on Kontakt (6)? I'm presuming it performs much the same as 5? Does it still take 72 hours to move a library tab from top to bottom?



As you can see, the icon is EXTREMELY different. Kontakt 5 is blue on white. Kontakt (6) is white reversed on blue. 






Aside from that, it's exactly the same, as far as I can tell.


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## puremusic

Hmm, when I saw a screenshot the new Kontakt 6 seemed to have a longer keyboard at the bottom, was I wrong?


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## EvilDragon

TigerTheFrog said:


> white reversed on blue.



Actually black.



puremusic said:


> Hmm, when I saw a screenshot the new Kontakt 6 seemed to have a longer keyboard at the bottom, was I wrong?



That's actually also true in Kontakt 5.8. Happens when you load one of the wider instruments, then the whole keyboard (all 128 MIDI keys) are shown.

From K5.8 readme file:

_- IMPROVED The virtual keyboard now automatically resizes to match rack widths higher than the default_


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## puremusic

EvilDragon said:


> Actually black.
> 
> 
> 
> That's actually also true in Kontakt 5.8. Happens when you load one of the wider instruments, then the whole keyboard (all 128 MIDI keys) are shown.
> 
> From K5.8 readme file:
> 
> _- IMPROVED The virtual keyboard now automatically resizes to match rack widths higher than the default_



I like that, you can never have too many keys.


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## Living Fossil

@EvilDragon : How likely do you think it is that sample library developers will require Kontakt 6 (instead of Kontakt 5) for their libraries in the next year?


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## Reid Rosefelt

Also @EvilDragon, if a developer has a new library from now on, will they still be able to get a Player license for Kontakt 5?


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## Reid Rosefelt

As I've been promoting the T+S deal, I want you all to know that one of our VI:Control members, @husker, was told by T+S that they were out of serial numbers. He could cancel or wait. 

Then they told him that they had shipped his hard drive, despite his instructions not to. He's not happy.


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## whiskers

TigerTheFrog said:


> As I've been promoting the T+S deal, I want you all to know that one of our VI:Control members, @husker, was told by T+S that they were out of serial numbers. He could cancel or wait.
> 
> Then they told him that they had shipped his hard drive, despite his instructions not to. He's not happy.



in their defence, not shipping a typically boxed product and just giving a serial number is out of the norm for them, so i could see making the mistake out of habit. IDK what's up with the out of serials though.

Mine was shipped yesterday, but I ordered the standard boxed version.


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## EvilDragon

Living Fossil said:


> @EvilDragon : How likely do you think it is that sample library developers will require Kontakt 6 (instead of Kontakt 5) for their libraries in the next year?



Some will definitely be interested in using new features, for sure.



TigerTheFrog said:


> Also @EvilDragon, if a developer has a new library from now on, will they still be able to get a Player license for Kontakt 5?



Probably not.


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## wnws

I asked to skip shipping but I guess I can eat the 17 dollars. No big deal still cheaper then from NI directly with my points from TS


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## whiskers

just got my Rob Papen Go2 code - you all should be getting them shortly. Now to decide whether to keep or sell. Probably keep, looks capable.


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## JonSolo

So much content in the Collectors Edition. I will be lost for days for sure.


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## whiskers

JonSolo said:


> So much content in the Collectors Edition. I will be lost for days for sure.


as a newb to Komplete and all of this, what are some of your faves?


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## JonSolo

whiskers said:


> as a newb to Komplete and all of this, what are some of your faves?



I have been around Komplete since the beginning...but obviously Kontakt is where it all ends. Some subtle treasures are Kinetic Toys and Kinetic Metal. Rise and Hit never gets old for swells and transitions. And I always tell everyone to give the drums, bass, and keyboard offerings a chance.

Of the non Kontakt offerings, Battery is still a beast...think outside the box when using Guitar Rig.

I think NI takes a lot of flak for their business structure, but their products are always stable, and there is not much to not like. I am just starting to dive into the new effects and will chime in shortly with that.


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## husker

whiskers said:


> in their defence, not shipping a typically boxed product and just giving a serial number is out of the norm for them, so i could see making the mistake out of habit. IDK what's up with the out of serials though.
> 
> Mine was shipped yesterday, but I ordered the standard boxed version.



I get that, but I had several emails to them, and each time I expressed my wishes. They even acknowledged it. They worked it beautifully for TigertheFrog (and I'm really glad they did - we've been PMing about this since it was announces), so they are capable. Their communication with me has not been stellar - I'm still trying to resolve this simple thing.

I will not be buying from them again.


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## colony nofi

husker said:


> I get that, but I had several emails to them, and each time I expressed my wishes. They even acknowledged it. They worked it beautifully for TigertheFrog (and I'm really glad they did - we've been PMing about this since it was announces), so they are capable. Their communication with me has not been stellar - I'm still trying to resolve this simple thing.
> 
> I will not be buying from them again.


I too have bought from them - and then sent a PM regarding getting the serial numbers. (I'm not back in my studio for some weeks!). They mentioned it wouldn't be a problem, but they were out of stock. I have been happy with their communication... only issue is that there was no indication they were out of stock when I ordered. Will be interesting to see how long it takes them to get new stock.

(I *do* want the hard drive sent - its worth it for emergencies....)


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## whiskers

colony nofi said:


> I too have bought from them - and then sent a PM regarding getting the serial numbers. (I'm not back in my studio for some weeks!). They mentioned it wouldn't be a problem, but they were out of stock. I have been happy with their communication... only issue is that there was no indication they were out of stock when I ordered. Will be interesting to see how long it takes them to get new stock.
> 
> (I *do* want the hard drive sent - its worth it for emergencies....)


The serial is still in the box right? I would think you're either out of boxes or you're not, surprising they wouldn't have that info available at checkout. Who knows ..


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## Reid Rosefelt

There are already a few videos up on YouTube for Komplete 12, including these demos of the sounds in the three Kontakt 6 libraries.


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## Reid Rosefelt

whiskers said:


> just got my Rob Papen Go2 code - you all should be getting them shortly. Now to decide whether to keep or sell. Probably keep, looks capable.


FYI, the installation from the serial number involves a few steps. If you want to try it out, you might want to download the demo first. That way you wouldn't have used the serial number. Still, it's possible that it's an NFR as it comes from a promotion. 

I love it. I'm not parting with mine.


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## whiskers

TigerTheFrog said:


> FYI, the installation from the serial number involves a few steps. If you want to try it out, you might want to download the demo first. That way you wouldn't have used the serial number. Still, it's possible that it's an NFR as it comes from a promotion.
> 
> I love it. I'm not parting with mine.


guess what I'm wondering is what it be to redundant with the synths in Komplete as well as omnisphere 2. most of that just comes from my ignorance far as thethe differences in synths and how they work


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## Reid Rosefelt

whiskers said:


> guess what I'm wondering is what it be to redundant with the synths in Komplete as well as omnisphere 2. most of that just comes from my ignorance far as thethe differences in synths and how they work


If a synth is original, then I don't think there is such a thing as a redundant synth. Listen to the presets and see if it makes the kind of sounds you'd be interested in using in your music. Compare that to the other Komplete synths and see what you like. Omnisphere is magnificent, but it is not exactly like Go2. I doubt anybody uses all the synths in Komplete. The exception to this is if a software synth is a clone of a classic like the Minimoog, like Monark. If you have many Minimoog clones, then you might gravitate to your favorite one. But even in that situation, a lot of them are quite different.

Go2 is a simple, simple synth. If you learn some basics about subtractive synthesis and read the manual, you will be able to understand it fully and program your own sounds with it. For example, it's not hard to grasp that there is a sequencer in Go2 that allows you to use chords instead of notes. Put chords of your choosing in and you will immediately start hearing patches you have made yourself, and do exactly what you want to serve your music.

On the other hand, synths like Massive and Omnisphere have trillions and trillions of options. That's why very experienced programmers spend years exploring them. And that's why people tend to buy Omnisphere and Massive patches rather than make them themselves. 

I'm stating this a little too baldly because anybody can use Omnisphere in a simple way by combining two to four of the sounds that come with it (but that is a lot to choose from). And anybody can tweak Massive patches--but they probably won't know what results they will get unless they have a pretty deep knowledge of it.


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## whiskers

TigerTheFrog said:


> If a synth is original, then I don't think there is such a thing as a redundant synth. Listen to the presets and see if it makes the kind of sounds you'd be interested in using in your music. Compare that to the other Komplete synths and see what you like. Omnisphere is magnificent, but it is not exactly like Go2. I doubt anybody uses all the synths in Komplete. The exception to this is if a software synth is a clone of a classic like the Minimoog, like Monark. If you have many Minimoog clones, then you might gravitate to your favorite one. But even in that situation, a lot of them are quite different.
> 
> Go2 is a simple, simple synth. If you learn some basics about subtractive synthesis and read the manual, you will be able to understand it fully and program your own sounds with it. For example, it's not hard to grasp that there is a sequencer in Go2 that allows you to use chords instead of notes. Put chords of your choosing in and you will immediately start hearing patches you have made yourself, and do exactly what you want to serve your music.
> 
> On the other hand, synths like Massive and Omnisphere have trillions and trillions of options. That's why very experienced programmers spend years exploring them. And that's why people tend to buy Omnisphere and Massive patches rather than make them themselves.
> 
> I'm stating this a little too baldly because anybody can use Omnisphere in a simple way by combining two to four of the sounds that come with it (but that is a lot to choose from). And anybody can tweak Massive patches--but they probably won't know what results they will get unless they have a pretty deep knowledge of it.


thanks -- i do like the sounds from what i've seen so far. I guess I was thinking 'well i could get a similar sound from Omni probably' but that would probably take much time even if possible. Sounds like it's worth keeping, if not just for the learning experience. Cheers.


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## JPQ

Is possible i user installs this tell another hard drive for samples? i dont yet have suitable computer and this package i cannot test itself.


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## EvilDragon

Yes it's possible, just change Content folder in Native Access preferences before you install a particular product.


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## Reid Rosefelt

I often move my Komplete instruments around to different directories and different drives. 
I'm on PC, so I just uninstall them in Control Panel. Once that's done, the files are gone, and they are listed as "Not Installed" in Native Access. Then I reinstall them in the directory I want following what @EvilDragon says above.


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## EvilDragon

That's completely unnecessary though... You can simply relocate libraries within Kontakt, it shows a Locate button if a particular library cannot be found.


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## JonSolo

Yes I cut and paste to create room on my SSDs as needed.


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## Echoes in the Attic

EvilDragon said:


> That's completely unnecessary though... You can simply relocate libraries within Kontakt, it shows a Locate button if a particular library cannot be found.


But doesn’t komplete kontrol lose the path? I never figured out how to move content and have komplete kontrol change the paths.


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## EvilDragon

KK has its own database of libraries, in which you can also relocate the library paths (Edit->Preferences, then Library tab, click on folder button next to library you want to relocate).


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## whiskers

slight aside, but i gotta ask - does NI not include USB cords with their boxed Komplete Products anymore? I don't think I have a cord that connects


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## Ran Zhou

whiskers said:


> slight aside, but i gotta ask - does NI not include USB cords with their boxed Komplete Products anymore? I don't think I have a cord that connects


Mine came with a cable, it's an update from 10U to K12U. It's under the black box..


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## whiskers

Ran Zhou said:


> Mine came with a cable, it's an update from 10U to K12U. It's under the black box..


wow, i'm a moron, thanks.

I'll just blame Mondays


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## Ran Zhou

whiskers said:


> I'll just blame Mondays


Monday Syndrome, Lol


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## JonSolo

whiskers said:


> wow, i'm a moron, thanks.
> 
> I'll just blame Mondays


Ha, I was just about to comment... it is easy to miss when you get that shiny new box for sure!


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