# Pacific Strings Freebie



## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

Did a little 16 bar improv with the freebee patches for Pacific strings. Just the Vlc spicc and the vln 1 sus muted patches. 

I like the tone of the library very nice sound. Very musical and hardly requires any additional reverb though I put some in just to add a little. Little light processing too really brought out the tone and dynamics. I think this is shaping up to be a winner. Hopefully its price in my ball park. 

Nothing fancy here just a quick little ditty to judge the tone of the strings.


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## WhiteNoiz (Oct 19, 2021)

Really digging the connectivity between the shorts.


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## aka70 (Oct 19, 2021)

They sound amazing, too much dynamics for my ears, smooth and full of emotions. But veeeryyy power angry (my kontakt cpu is 35-50% with only one patch)


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

WhiteNoiz said:


> Really digging the connectivity between the shorts.


The shorts are really amazing. They have a point tempo wise where they stop working well though. Somewhere about 142 the 16th notes kind of fall apart but bellow that it's pretty good.


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## Getsumen (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Did a little 16 bar improv with the freebee patches for Pacific strings. Just the Vlc spicc and the vln 1 sus muted patches.
> 
> I like the tone of the library very nice sound. Very musical and hardly requires any additional reverb though I put some in just to add a little. Little light processing too really brought out the tone and dynamics. I think this is shaping up to be a winner. Hopefully its price in my ball park.
> 
> Nothing fancy here just a quick little ditty to judge the tone of the strings.


Pricing info was already released btw. 500-1000$ iirc (Depending on loyalty + intro)


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## gst98 (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> The shorts are really amazing. They have a point tempo wise where they stop working well though. Somewhere about 142 the 16th notes kind of fall apart but bellow that it's pretty good.


That's really the point where you need a measured trem articulation though. Personally, these have taken the crown from CSS as my favourite spicc. Bonus is that the high end is preserved, unlike CSS. You also get an ambience and beautiful hall that only Spitfire libraries _(and maybe Berlin)_ have had, without the drawbacks of the hall tail getting in the way.


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Pricing info was already released btw. 500-1000$ iirc (Depending on loyalty + intro)


Is this for the strings or the full orchestra? I know he's working on a full orchestra but I haven't fully kept track of the developments.


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## Evans (Oct 19, 2021)

It really does sound nice. Great stereo spread. Very nice number of dynamic layers in those violins. That said, I heard some bumpiness that I couldn't always replicate, so I'm wondering if it was a CPU issue (i9 9900K).

It's not really a needed library for me with HZS and BSS (oh, and SSS... what's wrong with me?) and _very _little work of this sort, and I could easily see people viewing an on-sale HZS as a better overall value given its number of articulations. However, I think HZS has the unfortunate "sucking in" effect for many of its sustains (which is a common Spitfire issue), which I didn't at all feel with this freebie patch.


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

gst98 said:


> That's really the point where you need a measured trem articulation though. Personally, these have taken the crown from CSS as my favourite spicc. Bonus is that the high end is preserved, unlike CSS. You also get an ambience and beautiful hall that only Spitfire libraries _(and maybe Berlin)_ have had, without the drawbacks of the hall tail getting in the way.


HOOPUS handled it well technically but nowhere near as much life as Pacific strings. Then when I lowered the tempo pacific strings was on fire!


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

Evans said:


> It really does sound nice. Great stereo spread. Very nice number of dynamic layers in those violins. That said, I heard some bumpiness that I couldn't always replicate, so I'm wondering if it was a CPU issue (i9 9900K).
> 
> It's not really a needed library for me with HZS and BSS (oh, and SSS... what's wrong with me?) and _very _little work of this sort, and I could easily see people viewing an on-sale HZS as a better overall value given its number of articulations. However, I think HZS has the unfortunate "sucking in" effect for many of its sustains (which is a common Spitfire issue), which I didn't at all feel with this freebie patch.


I think the bump comes from the looping. I did hear a looping point in one of the sustain samples. But, I think I could live with it and after all, it is just a taste of the overall package here.


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## Getsumen (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Is this for the strings or the full orchestra? I know he's working on a full orchestra but I haven't fully kept track of the developments.


Strings only It's on the loyalty tab of the Pacific - Strings page on the site. 

I believe Vista and Con Moto is what gets you the loyalty pricing.


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## ism (Oct 19, 2021)

Wonderful improv. The dynamics here are really something. It's musicality I've not encountered before.


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## Evans (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I think the bump comes from the looping. I did hear a looping point in one of the sustain samples. But, I think I could live with it and after all, it is just a taste of the overall package here.


Ooh, yes, I did hear that, as well. The bump seemed a bit different (at the beginning of a sustain) and I couldn't always get it to occur, but I did hear some pretty short loops (that I think would very neatly disappear in a mix, so I'm not concerned... for the file size, I'd rather have the add'l layers).


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## muziksculp (Oct 19, 2021)

I listened to the Freebie Shorts, can they have a bit more bite/edgy-scratchy type sound to them ? or is that the max you get ?


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## Sovereign (Oct 19, 2021)

Evans said:


> Ooh, yes, I did hear that, as well. The bump seemed a bit different (at the beginning of a sustain) and I couldn't always get it to occur, but I did hear some pretty short loops (that I think would very neatly disappear in a mix, so I'm not concerned... for the file size, I'd rather have the add'l layers).


A quick inspection of the editor reveals that the loops are generally around 4s long.


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I listened to the Freebie Shorts, can they have a bit more bite/edgy-scratchy type sound to them ? or is that the max you get ?


They can get pretty loud but after all it is only a spiccato articulation which can't be played that loudly. Hopefully the package includes various lengths of aggressive marcato as well. I've long given up the idea of string libraries including martelé which would be nice if they did.


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> A quick inspection of the editor reveals that the loops are generally around 4s long.


Hmmmm...interesting choice. I guess it's like a simulated rebow.


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## muziksculp (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> They can get pretty loud but after all it is only a spiccato articulation which can't be played that loudly. Hopefully the package includes various lengths of aggressive marcato as well. I've long given up the idea of string libraries including martelé which would be nice if they did.


OK. Thanks. 

This is one of the weaknesses of Spiccato. They just bouce off the strings, so they can't get that edgy sound, I hope that Pacific has some way of achieving that more edgy Staccatisimo/Staccato sounds when the bow digs hard into the strings.


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## Sunny Schramm (Oct 19, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> OK. Thanks.
> 
> This is one of the weaknesses of Spiccato. They just bouce off the strings, so they can't get that edgy sound, I hope that Pacific has some way of achieving that more edgy Staccatisimo/Staccato sounds when the bow digs hard into the strings.


From the Pacific Strings page:
"Aside from more common articulations, there’s some exploration of small variations on traditional articulations, such as marcatos with short, phrase-sourced RR releases capable of staccato-esque phrases (kind of like *Angry* Brass Pro), and whisper sustains (soft, quasi-harmonic/sul tasto with a dynamic range)."


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## gst98 (Oct 19, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> OK. Thanks.
> 
> This is one of the weaknesses of Spiccato. They just bouce off the strings, so they can't get that edgy sound, I hope that Pacific has some way of achieving that more edgy Staccatisimo/Staccato sounds when the bow digs hard into the strings.


Download them and see what you think. Dial in the close mic for a more focused aggressive sound. at the highest FFF dynamic, there is a lot of bow noise and it gets into col legno territory. Just compared to ark 1 and _(although we don't have basses yet)_ this is, if anything, more aggressive than ark.


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

gst98 said:


> Download them and see what you think. Dial in the close mic for a more focused aggressive sound. at the highest FFF dynamic, there is a lot of bow noise and it gets into col legno territory. Just compared to ark 1 and _(although we don't have basses yet)_ this is, if anything, more aggressive than ark.


Yes coming from the maker of Angry Brass Pro and Oceana, I doubt Jasper is going to let us down on the aggression. I mean seriously. Have you seen his picture lately? Dude has been pumping some serious iron this past year. He looks like a mini Schwarzenegger.


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## muziksculp (Oct 19, 2021)

gst98 said:


> Download them and see what you think. Dial in the close mic for a more focused aggressive sound. at the highest FFF dynamic, there is a lot of bow noise and it gets into col legno territory. Just compared to ark 1 and _(although we don't have basses yet)_ this is, if anything, more aggressive than ark.


I will give them a spin later today. 

Thanks.


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## muziksculp (Oct 19, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> From the Pacific Strings page:
> "Aside from more common articulations, there’s some exploration of small variations on traditional articulations, such as marcatos with short, phrase-sourced RR releases capable of staccato-esque phrases (kind of like *Angry* Brass Pro), and whisper sustains (soft, quasi-harmonic/sul tasto with a dynamic range)."


THANKS  

I missed this important description detail of Pacific Strings. This might be what I'm after, but I don't think it's the same as the Freebie Spicc. short, hopefully they will be posting more shorts demos to showcase these shorts.


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## sostenuto (Oct 19, 2021)

Appreciate the cool sample ! ( _but keep getting hand-cramps checking all the 'eula' boxes_ ) 🤌🏻


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## handz (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Yes coming from the maker of Angry Brass Pro and Oceana, I doubt Jasper is going to let us down on the aggression. I mean seriously. Have you seen his picture lately? Dude has been pumping some serious iron this past year. He looks like a mini Schwarzenegger.



wow, if I have to imagine how composer / sample dev looks like, this is definitely not it


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## handz (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Did a little 16 bar improv with the freebee patches for Pacific strings. Just the Vlc spicc and the vln 1 sus muted patches.
> 
> I like the tone of the library very nice sound. Very musical and hardly requires any additional reverb though I put some in just to add a little. Little light processing too really brought out the tone and dynamics. I think this is shaping up to be a winner. Hopefully its price in my ball park.
> 
> Nothing fancy here just a quick little ditty to judge the tone of the strings.


mmm, why does it sound so low-fi and noisy - this is really how it will sound? The official demos and previews don't sound so much noisy


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

handz said:


> mmm, why does it sound so low-fi and noisy - this is really how it will sound? The official demos and previews don't sound so much noisy


It is noisy but it does not sound lo-fi. I'm not sure why you are hearing that. You do realize that the strings are muted right?


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## handz (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> It is noisy but it does not sound lo-fi. I'm not sure why you are hearing that. You do realize that the strings are muted right?


I wasn't, that explains it sorry, it's a bit weird to release muted violins as a demo, I really want to test regular legatos sound. The noise is really strong on this patch are the shorts also so noisy? I would test it myself but downloading demo patches is for some reason a nightmare for me every time.


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## AEF (Oct 19, 2021)

I really like these strings. But I also dont know how they are much better than many other offerings I already have. 

I wish sonokinetic would release their library to compare.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 19, 2021)

This is a very generous freebie!


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

handz said:


> I wasn't, that explains it sorry, it's a bit weird to release muted violins as a demo, I really want to test regular legatos sound. The noise is really strong on this patch are the shorts also so noisy? I would test it myself but downloading demo patches is for some reason a nightmare for me every time.


Didn't notice the noise in the shorts but the noise in the sordino violin patch is a lot to be honest. I was using headphones and at first I kept looking behind me because it felt like somebody was creeping up on me in the middle of the night. But after hearing the same chair noise a few times I realized it was the patch.


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## muziksculp (Oct 19, 2021)

AEF said:


> I wish sonokinetic would release their library to compare.


LOL .. Good Luck with that


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## ism (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Didn't notice the noise in the shorts but the noise in the sordino violin patch is a lot to be honest. I was using headphones and at first I kept looking behind me because it felt like somebody was creeping up on me in the middle of the night. But after hearing the same chair noise a few times I realized it was the patch.



There's 9 dynamic layers here (and I think? 14 in the actual library), so yes, it's noisy. But on the other hand, this is probably what ppppppp actually does sound like.


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

I worked with EWQLSO for over a decade so noise doesn't really bother me. Pacific Strings is actually less noisy than CS2.0 which I still use and love.

So bring me the noise!!!


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## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 19, 2021)

Vns patch - I am seeing an error in the console that an array is being indexed out of bounds.

Also, I've noticed seeming jumps in cc1 (like velocity is overwriting the modwheel?)

---

The tweaking options on the "b" page look promising


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## dzilizzi (Oct 19, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Appreciate the cool sample ! ( _but keep getting hand-cramps checking all the 'eula' boxes_ ) 🤌🏻


He just wants to make sure you know there is no support and it is As-Is.

Wait, that sounds like that PT Cruiser I bought.....

Seriously though, I think a lot more developers should have people check more boxes like that.


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## Zanshin (Oct 19, 2021)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Vns patch - I am seeing an error in the console that an array is being indexed out of bounds.


From the website: "The sordinos may show an error message in the lower-left corner, but this shouldn’t affect the sound."






Pacific – Strings – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> But couldn’t you get a similar sound just with Hollywood Strings + reverb like 7th Heaven/Cinematic Rooms + EQ etc.?


At least 50% of any magic instruments have is the sound of the instrument in a hall or good room. That is why the original VSL was never my favorite. They tried to minimize the room thinking that you could use good reverb and eq to mimic any room you wanted. They left out part of the equation which was that instruments sound better in a good acoustic space and that the room is nearly 50% of the sound of an instrument. Even playing long notes in sampling one uses the room to blend the original sound with the reflected sound and that effects the expressiveness. Instrumentalist call it playing or projecting into the room or hall. You use that as part of the sound of your instrument. 

Also, too big a room is a factor to for solo instruments. I think it's the main reason people have a hard time with BBCSO woodwinds. I don't but some do. The room is so big that there's a disconnection of the original tone to the reflections. As a player it makes you feel like you are in isolation. In a recording you get a weird washed out double sound. 

For me sampling should be middle of the road. BBCSO kind of being an exception to that as the overall product blends well. But usually I like my samples to be in a medium room like EW Studios, Synchron and Trackdown. I find those samples to have the right amount of room that a player can get really expressive yet the room isn't so overwhelming so you can design plenty of your own space around them. 

Pacific Strings falls into that middle room category for me so I'm really, really interested.


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## Trash Panda (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Didn't notice the noise in the shorts but the noise in the sordino violin patch is a lot to be honest. I was using headphones and at first I kept looking behind me because it felt like somebody was creeping up on me in the middle of the night. But after hearing the same chair noise a few times I realized it was the patch.


I find it very interesting how background noise is something people make a huge fuss about with other developers (8dio, Spitfire, Cinesamples, etc.) but this is just accepted when it comes to Performance Sample products.

Before the JB army descends with their pitchforks and torches, know that I have many PS products and generally enjoy them immensely.


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## Getsumen (Oct 19, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I find it very interesting how background noise is something people make a huge fuss about with other developers (8dio, Spitfire, Cinesamples, etc.) but this is just accepted when it comes to Performance Sample products.
> 
> Before the JB army descends with their pitchforks and torches, know that I have many PS products and generally enjoy them immensely.


Luckily its ncw so you can always decompress to wav and denoise then recompress since it comes with a noise floor sample. Might take some time though

I personally dont like large amts of noise. This is a tad much for me.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 19, 2021)

Con Moto had 4 mics (even con moto legacy freebie), then Vista came with just 2 mics and now Pacific.
Why Jasper?
From the demo I feel the close mic, at least with the sordio, has too much room tail for my taste, it sound too distant for a "close" mic, kinda like a decca tree. con moto was recorded in the same hall and the close mics there are what you expect... close... even too close maybe lol
I found that layering the close mic from the con moto legacy blended very well.

Sordino FF layer on high notes has too loud attack, playing fast it sound like someone is hitting sticks.

What I really like?
The pp layer is soooo sweetttt and gentle, really beautiful


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## Trash Panda (Oct 19, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Luckily its ncw so you can always decompress to wav and denoise then recompress since it comes with a noise floor sample. Might take some time though
> 
> I personally dont like large amts of noise. This is a tad much for me.


Any tips for getting the overwhelming distortion out of the close mic samples from Angry Brass Soloists besides just muting the close mics and only using the decca tree?


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## Casiquire (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> They can get pretty loud but after all it is only a spiccato articulation which can't be played that loudly. Hopefully the package includes various lengths of aggressive marcato as well. I've long given up the idea of string libraries including martelé which would be nice if they did.



Psst--MSS

I agree regarding the noise. It was pretty distracting to me in that example. Also the short loop is one of my bigger complaints with Vista, so it's unfortunate to see that resurface here. In a less exposed mix you can get away with these things but for libraries that "just work" in so many other ways, it's a bit disappointing to see these particular issues keep cropping up. Anyway. I'm still looking toward Voyage but I'm going to try the demo out myself!


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## Hendrixon (Oct 19, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I find it very interesting how background noise is something people make a huge fuss about with other developers (8dio, Spitfire, Cinesamples, etc.) but this is just accepted when it comes to Performance Sample products.
> 
> Before the JB army descends with their pitchforks and torches, know that I have many PS products and generally enjoy them immensely.


I think its a combination of things:

First, ppl tend to be more forgiving for small operations, and Jasper is as small as it can be, just one guy. when you think OT/EW/SF, with all their funds and professional teams, heck SF has a 3 storey building, from those guys you expect perfection, or at least you are less tolerant to imperfections.

Another aspect is the way Jasper samples, from performances, I imagine its harder to get pristine samples that way. the down side you might hear a chair move because the players "perform", but the upside is you get a different sound then your regular OT/EW/SF... and some ppl accept this tradeoff.

In my view it is a trade off... I tolerate the noise - to some extent - in order to get the different sound/vibe.

I'm sure if Jasper was making regular sample libraries but WITH noise? he was probably selling enough to maybe buy peanuts for the weekend.


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## handz (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> At least 50% of any magic instruments have is the sound of the instrument in a hall or good room. That is why the original VSL was never my favorite.
> 
> For me sampling should be middle of the road.


I am so with you on this one. The sound of the room is crucial. Instruments must breathe. You cant just slap reverb on an acoustic instrument and think it will sound "alive".


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## muziksculp (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> At least 50% of any magic instruments have is the sound of the instrument in a hall or good room. That is why the original VSL was never my favorite. They tried to minimize the room thinking that you could use good reverb and eq to mimic any room you wanted. They left out part of the equation which was that instruments sound better in a good acoustic space and that the room is nearly 50% of the sound of an instrument. Even playing long notes in sampling one uses the room to blend the original sound with the reflected sound and that effects the expressiveness. Instrumentalist call it playing or projecting into the room or hall. You use that as part of the sound of your instrument.


Yes, exactly my view on this detail as well. Totally dry libraries do not sound good, and won't if you add reverb. The magic will always be missing, you can't add it via Reverb.


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## jules (Oct 19, 2021)

AEF said:


> I really like these strings. But I also dont know how they are much better than many other offerings I already have.
> 
> I wish sonokinetic would release their library to compare.


Try the freebie. The wide pacific dynamic range makes riding the modwheel such a pleasure ! Sounds even better than vista, to my ears.


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## Casiquire (Oct 19, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> I think its a combination of things:
> 
> First, ppl tend to be more forgiving for small operations, and Jasper is as small as it can be, just one guy. when you think OT/EW/SF, with all their funds and professional teams, heck SF has a 3 storey building, from those guys you expect perfection, or at least you are less tolerant to imperfections.
> 
> ...


I think you make some good points, but a lot of these devs are very small operations with one to three people total. Also i think sampling from performances is partially to blame, but it can't take all the blame, because we listen to live orchestral performances all the time and they're nowhere near as noisy. I think it simply isn't a major concern for Jasper, who is more focused on the fluidity of the performance. I think people overlook it just because they like that fluidity. It seems to me like it's just that simple, yet unfortunate.

Can you even imagine if like, 8dio came out with a library and used similar taglines, like "stay away unless you like noise!"


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## Hendrixon (Oct 19, 2021)

jules said:


> Try the freebie. The wide pacific dynamic range makes riding the modwheel such a pleasure ! Sounds even better than vista, to my ears.


Keep in mind that the longs/legatos are 5 layers, its the sordinos that are "up to 11 layers".


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## Hendrixon (Oct 19, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I think you make some good points, but a lot of these devs are very small operations with one to three people total. Also i think sampling from performances is partially to blame, but it can't take all the blame, because we listen to live orchestral performances all the time and they're nowhere near as noisy. I think it simply isn't a major concern for Jasper, who is more focused on the fluidity of the performance. I think people overlook it just because they like that fluidity. It seems to me like it's just that simple, yet unfortunate.
> 
> Can you even imagine if like, 8dio came out with a library and used similar taglines, like "stay away unless you like noise!"


Just as I said, apparently its not a small group anymore, that accept the trade off:
They tolerate these libs that are more noisy but more fluid then most libs out there.


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## Casiquire (Oct 19, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> Just as I said, apparently its not a small group anymore, that accept the trade off:
> They tolerate these libs that are more noisy but more fluid then most libs out there.


Right! But i partially wish they'd push back a touch more.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 19, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Right! But i partially wish they'd push back a touch more.


You know the saying, the competition is a click away?
So ok, who is the competition? maybe Musical Sampling to some extent? but Aaron's sound is way different.
Ollie with NSS? that's still Jasper's work  

For years ppl push back SF for their samples "sucking" release issue, how much that helped?
At least until now you could go into kontakt to try and fix this... good luck doing that with their new player  

I think as Jasper's operation will grow, he will have to address this aspect of his products.


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

I think people are tolerant of performance samples because Jasper is a man of integrity. He states openly that his libraries are "imperfect". He states openly that you buy "as-is". He states openly that there is no tech support offered. What you get are some really playable musical samples that fill a niche. 
Not to knock other developers because I like and use many products now but they promise that their library is going to "change the world" or something which then of course people are going to complain when of course the sample library doesn't change the world so they start looking for things to criticize and end up bashing perfectly good workable libraries.


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

Oh man!!!!! 

Major reveal that I forgot to mention. Yes the samples have some noise but all the hissing in my example here is me experimenting with the Kramer Tape Emulation to get a wider sound and that emulation has some builtin tape hiss.

I seriously forgot that I did that. So the hissing sound that is in the example is the analog tape emulation. The room and chair noises of course come from the samples.


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## jules (Oct 19, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> Keep in mind that the longs/legatos are 5 layers, its the sordinos that are "up to 11 layers".


Ah... That’s a very valid point !


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## novaburst (Oct 19, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I agree regarding the noise. It was pretty distracting to me in that example. Also the short loop is one of my bigger complaints with Vista,


hahaha @Casiquire check the logo small print


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## handz (Oct 19, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Oh man!!!!!
> 
> Major reveal that I forgot to mention. Yes the samples have some noise but all the hissing in my example here is me experimenting with the Kramer Tape Emulation to get a wider sound and that emulation has some builtin tape hiss.
> 
> I seriously forgot that I did that. So the hissing sound that is in the example is the analog tape emulation. The room and chair noises of course come from the samples.


Mmmkay 😄


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## dzilizzi (Oct 19, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Can you even imagine if like, 8dio came out with a library and used similar taglines, like "stay away unless you like noise!"


8Dio would make the noise a selling point....."real orchestra sound - noises and all!"


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## Getsumen (Oct 19, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Any tips for getting the overwhelming distortion out of the close mic samples from Angry Brass Soloists besides just muting the close mics and only using the decca tree?


I don't have any of the Angry Brass stuff. (In fact I have very little PS stuff overall, just OC1 and FS1) so unfortunately not quite sure. 

Angry Brass always sounded a little weird to me so I haven't paid it much attention.


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 19, 2021)

The high CPU usage is turning me away from Pacific. I also dislike that the legatos seem to be only with a bit of a glide, although at this point I don't think we can be sure.

I may buy Nashville Scoring Strings instead. It's $210, low CPU usage, does divisi through a ready-made transposition trick, has fake sordino for every articulation as well as recorded sordino sustains, and a subtly pretty sound that layers with anything. It can also be used dry, while it seems to me, PS is all about the hyped sonority that cannot be achieved with dry samples.

I already own CSS, but Nashville would provide a close alternative with other kinds of annoyances. In CSS the long releases in the legatos are really annoying to me, they hurt realism, and I don't think there's a way to trim those down. You can only configure releases for the sustains.


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## Casiquire (Oct 19, 2021)

novaburst said:


> hahaha @Casiquire check the logo small print


I'm kind of tired of people saying "not for purists" as a way of quashing criticism though. Like ok, we've all heard the tagline, let's talk substance now. It sounds fantastic, but the QC can be better, and that's something that can and should be discussed 🤷


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 19, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> the QC can be better, and that's something that can and should be discussed 🤷


Absolutely. By the way, this is why people are eagerly awaiting Infinite Strings from Aaron Venture without ever having heard a single sample of it. He refines his libraries for years and years and we all only had to pay for it once. Contrast this with releasing an expensive library every year and even retiring older ones so nobody can buy them.


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## AEF (Oct 19, 2021)

jules said:


> Try the freebie. The wide pacific dynamic range makes riding the modwheel such a pleasure ! Sounds even better than vista, to my ears.


i did. its great to play. i noted that earlier in this thread.

but im not sure its any better in the results you can get than several other excellent libraries.


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## JGRaynaud (Oct 19, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I find it very interesting how background noise is something people make a huge fuss about with other developers (8dio, Spitfire, Cinesamples, etc.) but this is just accepted when it comes to Performance Sample products.
> 
> Before the JB army descends with their pitchforks and torches, know that I have many PS products and generally enjoy them immensely.


Wait... People complain about Spitfire, 8dio and cinesamples having noises ? I'm usually adding some noises to their libraries most of the time (not much but some. very often at least a room tone that has noises) 

Funny to see the difference of philosophy between people...

Like for brass libraries , I often detune them because the play is too perfect otherwise (which is not the case when recording a real orchestra, they are always a bit out of tune). A lot of people would find this crazy I guess, but I do like using untuned samples for brass... or at least not tuned too much.


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## Vlzmusic (Oct 19, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I'm kind of tired of people saying "not for purists" as a way of quashing criticism though. Like ok, we've all heard the tagline, let's talk substance now. It sounds fantastic, but the QC can be better, and that's something that can and should be discussed 🤷


I am not sure what you mean - I have Con Moto for a few years almost, got Woodwinds, Angry Brass and Violin B - they were 100% of the time consistent and reliable 

BTW the Pacific freebie behaves well here, on my ancient i5-8500. Though my easy sound card settings may be of some help, I never insist on crazy small buffers.


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## Marco_D (Oct 20, 2021)

JGRaynaud said:


> Wait... People complain about Spitfire, 8dio and cinesamples having noises ? I'm usually adding some noises to their libraries most of the time
> 
> Funny to see the difference of philosophy between people...


There's noise and there's noise. One thing is a background 'hiss', like a constant white noise, which can act like a sort of glue and add some authenticity (and most people also find it pleasant, like the sounds of gentle rain or wind etc.). Another is when there's the the sound of a chair scraping the floor baked into a sample, and each time you play that sample you hear the same chair scraping the floor. That's like the exact opposite of authenticity, it's not pleasing in any way and is nothing but a distraction.


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## JGRaynaud (Oct 20, 2021)

I do'nt hear that many noises here


Marco_D said:


> Another is when there's the the sound of a chair scraping the floor baked into a sample, and each time you play that sample you hear the same chair scraping the floor.


Do you hear these noises in the example posted ? I mainly hear the hiss from the tape emulation plugin that Jose added to be honest.


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## Niv Schrieber (Oct 20, 2021)

I use all of jasper's libraries constantly and love them so much.they are always reliable for me at least, and I love the small imperfections in them. Cpu wise, the only library that seem so give me some high cpu usage is surprisingly Caspian brass except when I lower the mics to just one. I tested all his other libraries with all the mics on and have minimal cpu usage while with Caspian its rising pretty high. Not sure why...but still, love the sound of his libraries and they are so easy and fun to use, and again, just sound great to me.

Edit:I have the same issue with fluid shorts 1 for some reason, forgot about that...not happening with fluid shorts 2 though. Not sure what the problem is.


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## Marco_D (Oct 20, 2021)

JGRaynaud said:


> I do'nt hear that many noises here
> 
> Do you hear these noises in the example posted ? I mainly hear the hiss from the tape emulation plugin that Jose added to be honest.


No, just a general consideration: When you say people have different philosophies about noise, what in fact might be happening is that we are referring to two very different type of noises: constant background hissing noise vs. specific abrupt noise baked into a sample.


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## CT (Oct 20, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Absolutely. By the way, this is why people are eagerly awaiting Infinite Strings from Aaron Venture without ever having heard a single sample of it. He refines his libraries for years and years and we all only had to pay for it once. Contrast this with releasing an expensive library every year and even retiring older ones so nobody can buy them.


I'd rather have something that sounds good with a bit of noise now than wait years and years for a "still not quite there" result.


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## gst98 (Oct 20, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I'm kind of tired of people saying "not for purists" as a way of quashing criticism though. Like ok, we've all heard the tagline, let's talk substance now. It sounds fantastic, but the QC can be better, and that's something that can and should be discussed 🤷


Nothing to do with QC. Jaspers QC is very thorough, recording multiple takes of legatos and longs and shorts so he can do take selections to choose the best results. Dynamics are matched very consistently across the range of instruments and the tightest shorts notes I've ever heard. Pitch-correcting and editing the life out of samples is not QC. And yes live performances have a ton of noise in them, people move, turn pages etc... these are not robots playing

Doing minimal noise reduction and leaving small noises of a performance is the whole mantra of his company, why would I go over to infinite samples and ask him to record samples the way SF and OT do? it's great there are so many devs producing in different ways so we can use choose samples with a recording philosophy we prefer. why do we have to homogenise everyone into sounding the same?

+the only noise I've found so far is when you extend the releases of the sordino patch and it's pretty subtle. If there are big noises that do need fixing it would helpful if they were posted for others to hear



Nando Florestan said:


> Absolutely. By the way, this is why people are eagerly awaiting Infinite Strings from Aaron Venture without ever having heard a single sample of it. He refines his libraries for years and years and we all only had to pay for it once. Contrast this with releasing an expensive library every year and even retiring older ones so nobody can buy them.


People have been waiting for years for a full PS string library without hearing a note too... same with CSB and CSW... This is the first PS full string library so not sure what you're talking about


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## JGRaynaud (Oct 20, 2021)

Marco_D said:


> No, just a general consideration: When you say people have different philosophies about noise, what in fact might be happening is that we are referring to two very different type of noises: constant background hissing noise vs. specific abrupt noise baked into a sample.


Yeah I see your point. To give you an example this is the kind of noise I kinda like having in the background of my mixes to add a bit of realism (listen to until 01:34). There is the hiss indeed but also many noises:



That's why I said it really is a matter of different philosophy. And of taste I guess.


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## Sovereign (Oct 20, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> The high CPU usage is turning me away from Pacific.


What the heck are you you running on? There's no 'high' CPU usage, and I'm running on an 'old' 2013 Mac Pro.


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## Casiquire (Oct 20, 2021)

I'm hearing both types of noise. I'm less bothered by the hiss, which can be hard pretty clearly at the beginning of the original post in this thread. I'm even more forgiving about it in the lower dynamics, because it's easy enough to throw some RX on the whole track at a super low level.

But when you have a loop of three seconds, noises absolutely become a matter of QC. Not to put ism on the spot, i love the example they posted, but that repeating click at the end is... something. 





__





Performance Samples - Pacific - Symphonic Strings


Absolutely agreed with VI-C's resident fossil. My strings needs are pretty limited, yet it's something I've run into before for the exact circumstance. It's a frustrating limitation, as with the compressed range of the AR1 "Selections" releases. Even I've had a few moments of, "Well, I guess I...




vi-control.net


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 20, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> What the heck are you you running on? There's no 'high' CPU usage, and I'm running on an 'old' 2013 Mac Pro.


Please see the thread I just started about CPU usage of libraries.

The sordino sustains patch spends almost as much CPU as a Sample Modeling ensemble; it is the second most CPU-intensive patch I have, and if it were a legato patch it would be even worse. There's no problem if you are running only a few voices/instruments, but a definite problem if you want to simulate a large orchestra.

I love the sound, but I have to pass. Maybe I can buy a new library, but it's the wrong year to buy a computer.


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## Sovereign (Oct 20, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Please see the thread I just started about CPU usage of libraries.
> 
> The sordino sustains patch spends almost as much CPU as a Sample Modeling ensemble; it is the second most CPU-intensive patch I have, and if it were a legato patch it would be even worse. There's no problem if you are running only a few voices/instruments, but a definite problem if you want to simulate a large orchestra.
> 
> I love the sound, but I have to pass.


That's where you wrote this:

"For orchestral writing I think it's worth giving preference to virtual instruments that consume up to 1% CPU, using the heavier ones only occasionally. If a VI uses more than 1% CPU I should probably refrain from buying it."

You're entitled to your opinion, but that conclusion to me seems ridiculous on the face of it. The fact that Pacific uses more CPU clearly is due to the increase in dynamic layers, resulting in more stereo streams (voices) playing at the same time. If that troubles you I suggest sticking to VI's with 2 dynamics or less.


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## gst98 (Oct 20, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I'm hearing both types of noise. I'm less bothered by the hiss, which can be hard pretty clearly at the beginning of the original post in this thread. I'm even more forgiving about it in the lower dynamics, because it's easy enough to throw some RX on the whole track at a super low level.
> 
> But when you have a loop of three seconds, noises absolutely become a matter of QC. Not to put ism on the spot, i love the example they posted, but that repeating click at the end is... something.
> 
> ...


You do realise the dynamics played here a barely audible when set up to a balanced volume? I mean set up in my template they barely visually register on my fader. When he said he was sampling pppppp he meant it. As soon as you push the modwheel up to more normal pp-p range those noises aren't apparent. So unless you have robots play it or destroy the thing with RX you are going to hear the people playing the instruments when you normalise the audio and add 25db of gain. And the example with hiss was added by tape simulations, not the library.


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## gst98 (Oct 20, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Please see the thread I just started about CPU usage of libraries.
> 
> The sordino sustains patch spends almost as much CPU as a Sample Modeling ensemble; it is the second most CPU-intensive patch I have, and if it were a legato patch it would be even worse. There's no problem if you are running only a few voices/instruments, but a definite problem if you want to simulate a large orchestra.
> 
> I love the sound, but I have to pass.


Have you opened up the kontakt instrument? If you have you'll see there is literally nothing going on. It is playing back sample files with ADSR envelopes only. There is literally nothing there that can add CPU, unlike something like MSS which has every bit of processing kontakt has to offer going on under the hood.

The reason that LASS registers 1-2% Kontakt CPU and pacific registers 2% for me is that the nki is playing back 4 dynamics layers at a time rather than LASS which xfades 2 at a time. If pacific is using lots of CPU for you it's because of Kontakt, not the nki.


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## Zanshin (Oct 20, 2021)

Perhaps this CPU stuff from Nando is a sophisticated anti-gas technique! In which case - bravo! Or maybe he has an AMD processor...


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## Casiquire (Oct 20, 2021)

gst98 said:


> You do realise the dynamics played here a barely audible when set up to a balanced volume? I mean set up in my template they barely visually register on my fader. When he said he was sampling pppppp he meant it. As soon as you push the modwheel up to more normal pp-p range those noises aren't apparent. So unless you have robots play it or destroy the thing with RX you are going to hear the people playing the instruments when you normalise the audio and add 25db of gain. And the example with hiss was added by tape simulations, not the library.


You do realize the noises are present throughout the entire length of the piece which reaches "2/3rds" of the full dynamic range?


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## gst98 (Oct 20, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> You do realize the noises are present throughout the entire length of the piece which reaches "2/3rds" of the full dynamic range?


I mean look at the waveform, the volume barely changes the whole way through. If he really is playing from lowest dynamic to 2/3rds up you can see how severe souncloud compression is then, because that clip has very little dynamic range. I suggest just testing the patches yourself, as I cannot hear any overly intrusive noises at reasonable dynamics, other than on the releases as I already mentioned.


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 20, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> The fact that Pacific uses more CPU clearly is due to the increase in dynamic layers, resulting in more stereo streams (voices) playing at the same time. If that troubles you I suggest sticking to VI's with 2 dynamics or less.


Hard to tell whether you are correct. Since there's no technical reason for more than 2 voices to be playing at once... and since I can see no convolution inside the sordino patch... where's all this CPU going?

No need to be snarky, you know. I like lots of dynamic layers as much as anyone else. However, developers do need to watch CPU usage. Maybe your number is higher than 1%, but surely there's a number...


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## ism (Oct 20, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> You do realize the noises are present throughout the entire length of the piece which reaches "2/3rds" of the full dynamic range?


But also recall that the volume is *really* cranked up.

I'd be curious what you might do with a library like this. I think your approach really pays off with libraries like VSL or Chris Hein. I don't think that this necessarily makes you a "purist" (Jasper is being a bit glib with the "not for purists" tagline), but simply very deeply engaged in the crafting nuances of your sound. With the experiments of people like yourself here on vi-c, I would never even consider libraries like MSS.

Pacific on the other hand ... ohh the sound, it just flows out of the box. I love the space. I love the dynamics. I love the elegant and lyrical squeakiness of the chairs on the ppppp layers, and I especially love the performances captured and am willing to forgive all manor of other technical sins for it. Same as my approach to Spitfire Solo Strings - lots of bumpiness and technical faults .. but all is forgiven when it gives that kind of expressiveness and sonority. I don't think that this means "not a purist" either, for I like to think I'm deeply engaged in crafting nuances of sound also, but just maybe in different technical dimension?

Although I guess "not for purists" is easier to fit on the logo that "for people deeply engaged in one particular set of parametric dimensions of crafting expressiveness and sonority and not necessarilty, though with some qualification, for some other people deeply engaged in certain other particular sets of parametric dimensions of crafting expressiveness and sonority"


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 20, 2021)

gst98 said:


> The reason that LASS registers 1-2% Kontakt CPU and pacific registers 2% for me is that the nki is playing back 4 dynamics layers at a time rather than LASS which xfades 2 at a time. If pacific is using lots of CPU for you it's because of Kontakt, not the nki.


In my AMD CPU, this patch consumes as much as 4 LASS patches. Yes it is a Kontakt issue, but maybe there was a workaround available to reduce this. If legato were added to this patch, it would basically consume an entire core.


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## Simon Ravn (Oct 20, 2021)

Wow, those sordinos are just amazing!


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## Bernard Duc (Oct 20, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Hard to tell whether you are correct. Since there's no technical reason for more than 2 voices to be playing at once... and since I can see no convolution inside the sordino patch... where's all this CPU going?
> 
> No need to be snarky, you know. I like lots of dynamic layers as much as anyone else. However, developers do need to watch CPU usage. Maybe your number is higher than 1%, but surely there's a number...


There are many technical reasons for more than 2 voices to be playing at once.


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## ism (Oct 20, 2021)

I think when you have 9 dynamic layers, this has got to come with some cost. 

In any event, my new new laptop (which seem now to be a low end MacBook) has something like 15 cores. Maybe I'll get some use out of them after all.


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## gst98 (Oct 20, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> In my AMD CPU, this patch consumes as much as 4 LASS patches. Yes it is a Kontakt issue, but maybe there was a workaround available to reduce this. If legato were added to this patch, it would basically consume an entire core.


Something else must be going on for you because it doesn't seem to be the experience of others here. If you're interested in why there are more than 2 samples being xfaded, Jasper has written up loads of the methodology on his website. And despite the fact that we are now playing way more dynamic layers, I've always found PS to be some of the lowest CPU patches I've encountered. Jasper refers to it as "old-gen" sampling - there is nothing crazy going on under the hood, just xfades, envelopes, and the samples themselves. If anything the legato will be less intense because it's 5 layers rather than the 9 we have here. I've never had trouble with Vista or Con Moto.


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## musicmaker9000 (Oct 20, 2021)

Wow, great freebie :D


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## Snarf (Oct 20, 2021)

@Nando Florestan what version of Kontakt are you running?


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## musicmaker9000 (Oct 20, 2021)

First 30-60 minutes with the freebie. 
Thought I would share, if it sounds bad, it's probably not the library at fault  (still a noobie)
View attachment performances samples 1.mp3


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## Hendrixon (Oct 20, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Any tips for getting the overwhelming distortion out of the close mic samples from Angry Brass Soloists besides just muting the close mics and only using the decca tree?


Yea Jasper's brass recordings are not stellar, the sounds he gets are all over the place from great to ok to awful.
There is a trick I use A LOT, I tone match mics in libs I don't like, with the same mics from other libs. I of course couple "like" instruments. for example I have Berlin Brass, but Berlin gets mf to barely f, while ABP is all fff... so some logic is needed.
For example, here I tone matched the ABP solo horn close mic to ff-fff layers from three Cinebrass (queen of brass tone!) horns close mics:





Try to mimic those curves (I prefer the third match) and then match the volume to taste.
Btw, if you'll do that to all the ABP solo close mics you will see all of the matches will roll off the top in one way or another, that's not because Cinebrass is way darker, but because the distortion/clipping
in ABP solo close mics is creating higher harmonics that are not present in Cine.
The mids and lows boost is the difference between the Sony stage to the room Jasper uses, it really elevates PS brass to a higher level.


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 20, 2021)

Snarf said:


> @Nando Florestan what version of Kontakt are you running?


Kontakt 6.6.1 (R139)

My CPU measurements have been consistent through all Kontakt 6.x versions.

I believe if people were to measure CPU the way I did in that thread, they would be surprised.


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## AudioLoco (Oct 20, 2021)

Is it no longer available?!


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## Zanshin (Oct 20, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Kontakt 6.6.1 (R139)
> 
> My CPU measurements have been consistent through all Kontakt 6.x versions.
> 
> I believe if people were to measure CPU the way I did in that thread, they would be surprised.


If it's not an actual problem - what's the point of testing? Everyone has different criteria for decision making. I get that your main criteria appears be CPU load. But I think to most - it's much ado about nothing. Certainly the CPU use from the freebie is not crazy high lol.


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 20, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> If it's not an actual problem - what's the point of testing?


Jesus Christ, Zanshin. Don't shoot the messenger! Sorry to rain on our Pacific parade, I am just calling the attention of like-minded users to a CPU usage that is indeed very high. I've said it and I am done, no use arguing about this, especially if you insist on contradicting my measurement without carrying out yours. I wouldn't still be here if you stopped calling me back.

Also I don't know how it is not a problem for a string quintet to consume 5 cores. Please teach me how to download more cores, evidently I need them.

By the way, nothing wrong with AMD CPUs, mkay?


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## Zanshin (Oct 20, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Jesus Christ, Zanshin. Don't shoot the messenger! Sorry to rain on our Pacific parade, I am just calling the attention of like-minded users to a CPU usage that is indeed very high. I've said it and I am done, no use arguing about this, especially if you insist on contradicting my measurement without carrying out yours. I wouldn't still be here if you stopped calling me back.
> 
> Also I don't know how it is not a problem for a string quintet to consume 5 cores. Please teach me how to download more cores, evidently I need them.
> 
> By the way, nothing wrong with AMD CPUs, mkay?


Nando I'm not shooting anyone. I am allowed to push back on things I disagree with?

Also we (you and I), don't know how much CPU the legato consumes. Maybe it'll be crazy high, I'll eat crow then - I just don't see that happening.

The good thing here, Jasper Blunk is nice enough to provide a freebie. I tried it, and for me, it confirmed I want it (surprise). For you, it helped you decide it wasn't going to work for you. That opportunity to try it, in and of itself, is awesome


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## Evans (Oct 20, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Nando I'm not shooting anyone. I am allowed to push back on things I disagree with?


As a total outsider, "what's the point of testing" and the assumption that CPU load doesn't matter to most - without anything to back it up - and the probably-not-applicable comment about AMD was just a little dismissive for no productive reason. That's all. A response could have simply been, "I find this acceptable and think it sounds great. Looking forward to a purchase!"


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## Zanshin (Oct 20, 2021)

Evans said:


> As a total outsider, "what's the point of testing" and the assumption that CPU load doesn't matter to most - without anything to back it up - and the probably-not-applicable comment about AMD was just a little dismissive for no productive reason. That's all. A response could have simply been, "I find this acceptable and think it sounds great. Looking forward to a purchase!"


LOL! Thank you for the constructive feedback. Can I have your cell phone for so I can consult you in the future? 

The AMD comment was a joke. I am sorry for any feelings I hurt.


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## Evans (Oct 20, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Can I have your cell phone for so I can consult you in the future?


Nope.


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## Loerpert (Oct 20, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Perhaps this CPU stuff from Nando is a sophisticated anti-gas technique! In which case - bravo! Or maybe he has an AMD processor...



What's wrong with an AMD processor?


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## Zanshin (Oct 20, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> What's wrong with an AMD processor?


 Nothing... I officially retract that joke. AMD-ians please accept my (mostly) sincere apology.


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## Loerpert (Oct 20, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Nothing... I officially retract that joke. AMD-ians please accept my (mostly) sincere apology.


Gooood.. Good..


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## Hendrixon (Oct 20, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> In my AMD CPU, this patch consumes as much as 4 LASS patches. Yes it is a Kontakt issue, but maybe there was a workaround available to reduce this. If legato were added to this patch, it would basically consume an entire core.


Make sure you compare like to like, Pacific has by default 2 mics enabled, which means double the cpu load in kontakt. I compared Pacific to SCS violins and it showed a bit more then double the cpu and voices hit of Pacific. enabling a second mic in SCS matched the performance.


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## dcoscina (Oct 20, 2021)

The sord violins especially at the lower dynamic levels are stunning. Really terrific.


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## Evans (Oct 20, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> The sord violins especially at the lower dynamic levels are stunning. Really terrific.


Yes, I spent some time last night comparing to various other libraries I have, such as HZS and SSS. The delicacy at very, very low dynamics is incredible.

Funny enough, I don't really like the shorts. But the sustains could push me over the edge.


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## tomosane (Oct 20, 2021)

Although I haven't done any systematic testing, it's absolutely true (for me, on an Intel processor) that some Kontakt libraries are a lot more demanding on the CPU than some others, and not just because of more dynamic layers or other easily identifiable technical specs.

I'm not at all a Kontakt expert but I *think* it sometimes has to do with problematic developer-specific scripting behind the hood, maybe scripts that handle the instrument's behavior in a bloated way (compared to other Kontakt instruments) or even just for flashy GUI animations. In any case, CPU usage is an important aspect of libraries which I feel isn't discussed that often on this forum


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## Trash Panda (Oct 20, 2021)

tomosane said:


> In any case, CPU usage is an important aspect of libraries which I feel isn't discussed that often on this forum


It is when someone has an issue. See every Heavyocity Ascend thread on VI-C (and deservedly so as it can be brutal on CPU).


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## Evans (Oct 20, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> It is when someone has an issue. See every Heavyocity Ascend thread on VI-C (and deservedly so as it can be brutal on CPU).


Oof, some of those (beautiful) Spitfire Audio libraries like Kepler sure can hit hard.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 20, 2021)

musicmaker9000 said:


> First 30-60 minutes with the freebie.
> Thought I would share, if it sounds bad, it's probably not the library at fault  (still a noobie)
> View attachment performances samples 1.mp3


I was enjoying this and it just stopped!  

This library sounds pretty good to me.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 20, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Is it no longer available?!


Click on the home page. That's where I found it.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 20, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> It is when someone has an issue. See every Heavyocity Ascend thread on VI-C (and deservedly so as it can be brutal on CPU).


Or Cinestrings


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## dcoscina (Oct 20, 2021)

Evans said:


> Yes, I spent some time last night comparing to various other libraries I have, such as HZS and SSS. The delicacy at very, very low dynamics is incredible.
> 
> Funny enough, I don't really like the shorts. But the sustains could push me over the edge.


I like the celli shorts but found I had to dial back on the delay to make them more responsive. I mentioned this to Jasper. At full default, they sound like the attack portion is slightly ramped up to (almost like a very sharp incline x fade). But everyone has different preferences and ideas of what they think short strings should sound like. I prefer a lot of bow-on-string attacks for shorts.


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 20, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> Make sure you compare like to like, Pacific has by default 2 mics enabled, which means double the cpu load in kontakt. I compared Pacific to SCS violins and it showed a bit more then double the cpu and voices hit of Pacific. enabling a second mic in SCS matched the performance.


For me, one LASS patch consumes 0.4% CPU playing anything. One mic of SCS playing very quickly (with the "Legato (Fast)" patch) consumes 1.9% CPU (one mic) or 2.5% (2 mics), and Pacific sord sustain playing very quickly consumes 1.5% CPU (close mic only), or 2.8% (both mics). IIUC this is coherent with what you said... but just contemplate how many LASS patches we can fit in that! I have always considered SCS to be one of my least performant libraries, would hate to see people considering that normal.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 20, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> For me, one LASS patch consumes 0.4% CPU playing anything. One mic of SCS playing very quickly (with the "Legato (Fast)" patch) consumes 1.9% CPU (one mic) or 2.5% (2 mics), and Pacific sord sustain playing very quickly consumes 1.5% CPU (close mic only), or 2.8% (both mics). IIUC this is coherent with what you said... but just contemplate how many LASS patches we can fit in that! I have always considered SCS to be one of my least performant libraries, would hate to see people considering that normal.


I don't own LASS so can't comment on that.

Well even SCS under kontakt is BY FAR better then anything that uses SF's own player... that thing's performance is worse then the Titanic's anchor


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## novaburst (Oct 20, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I'm kind of tired of people saying "not for purists" as a way of quashing criticism though. Like ok, we've all heard the tagline, let's talk substance now. It sounds fantastic, but the QC can be better, and that's something that can and should be discussed 🤷


guess you have a point but not sure if noise has anything to do with QC, for a library to have less noise i think it would need to be processed with FX then you may loose quality and realism, or body, then you may get a sterile sound or clinical sound,


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## Casiquire (Oct 20, 2021)

novaburst said:


> guess you have a point but not sure if noise has anything to do with QC, for a library to have less noise i think it would need to be processed with FX then you may loose quality and realism, or body, then you may get a sterile sound or clinical sound,


To remove hiss, yes. To remove all the clicks and bangs and scrapes, not so much. And you can just get a second take


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## Daniel James (Oct 20, 2021)

Just had a play with the demo patches and decided to take a swing at using them in the kind of music I write. They fit in really well with most other libraries I have and those short cello articulations can really hold down an ostinato! I'm hyped. I love Performance Samples libraries!

All high strings and the Cello Ostinato pinning it down are the demo patches.



-DJ


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## novaburst (Oct 20, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> To remove hiss, yes. To remove all the clicks and bangs and scrapes, not so much. And you can just get a second take


Yes there is quite a bit of noise, its the same as Con Moto, when listening to the loop,

There are 9 Dynamic layers going on there, vibrato and seems like thrills going on to get that magic live sound and must say these strings sound out of this world,

My thoughts are that if you have this library it encourages mod wheel links esp when you need to play a quite line.

So linking volume with dynamic together, rolling off your note end, virtually eliminates the noise even at low volume.

when in your DAW you can CC link Velocity, Dyn, Volume ,mic volume, there is so much you can do to your mod wheel or what ever you use.

but there is no way in any string or brass, wind library where your not going to ride the mod wheel when, the demo sounds very nice and plays nice too and i think that's what its all about.


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## Futchibon (Oct 20, 2021)

ism said:


> Pacific on the other hand ... ohh the sound, it just flows out of the box. I love the space. I love the dynamics. I love the elegant and lyrical squeakiness of the chairs on the ppppp layers, and I especially love the performances captured and am willing to forgive all manor of other technical sins for it.


Me too, with the sole exception being the 'sin' of having a noise that is very distinctive and keeps repeating so that it is noticable and annoying. But noise from the players in general I actually like; makes it sound more like a real recording. Cory recently did a video on adding player noise to clean samples to make them sound more authentic.


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## Zanshin (Oct 20, 2021)

I don't want to beat a dead horse but:

I ran a test with 5 kontakt instances running 5 sordino sustain patches each (so 25 instruments). All set to omni, playing the same four bar loop with lots of "waggle" on the mod wheel. I tried it with the 5 unsynced and synced. Synced is worse and what you see in the screenshot here. CPU going between 18-26%.






Now I don't think this is some sort of conclusive benchmark, nor Nando's tests. I know my CPU is no king of the hill, I think it's middle of the road at this point. I also know nothing about AMD thread "rippers" lol.

I'm sorry if I was a jerk, but I didn't like the idea of someone saying the library was a cpu pig, quote some numbers that are relative to his machine and then that cpu pig bs gets parroted.

Nando, post covid, if you are ever in Minneapolis I'll buy you a beer.


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## CT (Oct 20, 2021)

You were hardly a jerk.


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## Zanshin (Oct 20, 2021)

Well I read "Jesus Christ, Zanshin." and I figured I went too far. Hah. Anyway...


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## José Herring (Oct 20, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I don't want to beat a dead horse but:
> 
> I ran a test with 5 kontakt instances running 5 sordino sustain patches each (so 25 instruments). All set to omni, playing the same four bar loop with lots of "waggle" on the mod wheel. I tried it with the 5 unsynced and synced. Synced is worse and what you see in the screenshot here. CPU going between 18-26%.
> 
> ...


Same here. No noticeable hit on CPU. 

But the real question is, dude, how many Koto libraries does one really need?!

now off to Google Koto 13-20 just because you made me interested.


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## Zanshin (Oct 20, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Same here. No noticeable hit on CPU.
> 
> But the real question is, dude, how many Koto libraries does one really need?!
> 
> now off to Google Koto 13-20 just because you made me interested.


Uhhh you didn't see those. Really you saw nothing.

But in all seriousness those are current favorite VIs by a lot. Sonica is the maker. The 13 is traditional, the 20 like an expanded 13 but western style tuning, the 17 is like a cello Koto, again western style tuning. That said you can custom tune them string by string so I tune the 20 and 17 in more traditional scales like the 13. The articulations are *comprehensive,* to say the least. Thumb pick, index pick, middle pick, left hand pizzicato, right hand pizzicato, etc going in to more 'esoteric' stuff. JohnG turned me onto them, his description is something like the player being in the room with you and it's a perfect description.


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## José Herring (Oct 20, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Uhhh you didn't see those. Really you saw nothing.
> 
> But in all seriousness those are current favorite VIs by a lot. Sonica is the maker. The 13 is traditional, the 20 like an expanded 13 but western style tuning, the 17 is like a cello Koto, again western style tuning. That said you can custom tune them string by string so I tune the 20 and 17 in more traditional scales like the 13. The articulations are *comprehensive,* to say the least. Thumb pick, index pick, middle pick, left hand pizzicato, right hand pizzicato, etc going in to more 'esoteric' stuff. JohnG turned me onto them, his description is something like the player being in the room with you and it's a perfect description.


Pricey but the demos sound great!


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## Zanshin (Oct 20, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Pricey but the demos sound great!


They had a new year sale last year. I want to say 20% off.


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## KEM (Oct 20, 2021)

Sounds really good, might just be the way you wrote the music in your clip but it has a nice baroque feel to it, shorts in particular sound awesome


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 20, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I ran a test with 5 kontakt instances running 5 sordino sustain patches each (so 25 instruments). All set to omni, playing the same four bar loop with lots of "waggle" on the mod wheel. I tried it with the 5 unsynced and synced. Synced is worse and what you see in the screenshot here. CPU going between 18-26%.


Thank you for testing! Your CPU is faster than mine. Now the thing is, due to interrupts, you can't keep adding VIs until CPU usage reaches 100% in real time usage. (For offline bouncing, yes; for real time, no.) The CPU percentage before clicks and pops start appearing is 50, 60ish per cent, I believe. Do you wanna bet how many instances of the patch you can run in real time without crackling? I will bet it is 12 if your buffer size is 512. High buffer sizes will push against crackling, but will add latency.

If I am wrong in my bet I really want to know. Pretty please? Thanks.

Oh, I believe the reason why sync is worse is that the peaks in the Kontakt instances occur at the same time, resulting in a general CPU peak which again will surely bring crackling at the right stress point. In CineWinds, for instance, a legato interval creates a CPU peak, and if the winds are playing synchronized...


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## Zanshin (Oct 20, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Thank you for testing! Your CPU is faster than mine. Now the thing is, due to interrupts, you can't keep adding VIs until CPU usage reaches 100% in real time usage. (For offline bouncing, yes; for real time, no.) The CPU percentage before clicks and pops start appearing is 50, 60ish per cent, I believe. Do you wanna bet how many instances of the patch you can run in real time without crackling? I will bet it is 12 if your buffer size is 512. High buffer sizes will push against crackling, but will add latency.
> 
> If I am wrong in my bet I really want to know. Thanks.


With 25 instances I hit the buffer on 256, no buffer hits at 512. Not sure how many instances I could run at 512. This is a Babyface Pro FS though.

OK, loaded the test back up and kept adding instances around 45-50 instances I start hitting the CPU overload "led" in Ableton no crackling. Just a tiny bit of crackling at 512 with 60 instances (CPU is going between 40-55% here, it's hard to tell if it isn't noise build up haha, I'm really unsure if there a buffer issue). With 60 instances at 1024, my CPU drops 15-20%.

Edit: Also curious if Cubase would handle something like this better, I just don't use it much any more.


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 20, 2021)

Your computer performs much better than I'd think, and certainly much better than mine!

Were both mics on in the tests?

When you get tired of your computer, let me know, I will buy it from you.

Greetings all the way from Poland.


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## Zanshin (Oct 20, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Your computer performs much better than I'd think, and certainly much better than mine!
> 
> Were both mics on in the tests?


Not sure. I spent time going through whatever win10 optimization I could for audio, but the biggie to watch for is fucking power management crap, sometimes it'll just change on it's own. Mine is set to accelerate global warming, 100% all the time (I do power down when not in use though haha). But no overclock, or anything like it, I want stable. Not sure what interface you are using but the Babyface is no joke, that helps a bunch. I had an Audient before, great value, stable, ok all around but the Babyface kills it.

Yeah both mics, it's the default patch no changes.


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 20, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Not sure what interface you are using but the Babyface is no joke, that helps a bunch.


As a composer who never records anything -- I just use virtual instruments --, I thought I didn't even need an audio interface. I have been using onboard audio, or the headphone jack in my screen, or even Bluetooth out to my digital piano. I own a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (bought it for a gig that did involve recording), but it's currently connected to my laptop that generates so much interference that its audio output is very noisy without something external.

Anyway, are you sure an audio interface will help VI performance? This question isn't silly, it's been asked before and got conflicting answers.

I guess I'll have to test this myself this week...

Ouch, the Babyface Pro FS is not cheap!


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## AudioLoco (Oct 21, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Click on the home page. That's where I found it.


thanks!


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## Argy Ottas (Oct 21, 2021)

Daniel James said:


> Just had a play with the demo patches and decided to take a swing at using them in the kind of music I write. They fit in really well with most other libraries I have and those short cello articulations can really hold down an ostinato! I'm hyped. I love Performance Samples libraries!
> 
> All high strings and the Cello Ostinato pinning it down are the demo patches.
> 
> ...



It's all fun and games, but you already use 10 celli for the ostinato PLUS another cello ensemble legato line, and that sounds unreali... Just kidding!!! Wonderful job, Daniel


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## Hendrixon (Oct 21, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> As a composer who never records anything -- I just use virtual instruments --, I thought I didn't even need an audio interface. I have been using onboard audio, or the headphone jack in my screen, or even Bluetooth out to my digital piano. I own a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (bought it for a gig that did involve recording), but it's currently connected to my laptop that generates so much interference that its audio output is very noisy without something external.
> 
> Anyway, are you sure an audio interface will help VI performance? This question isn't silly, it's been asked before and got conflicting answers.
> 
> ...


Most daws should be like that, but I see you use Reaper, in that case spread your VIs between several tracks since Reaper tries to dedicate a thread per core.
Packing many VIs on a single track will bring a single thread/core to its knees fast, while the rest of your cpu will be basking in the sun doing not much.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 21, 2021)

Also different sample players behave differently, some are able to get Reaper to use more cores (like kontakt and sine) while other will hog just a core or two (SF player).


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## WhiteNoiz (Oct 22, 2021)

Attached a mockup doodle made with just the free stuff Jasper has provided over time for fun (ABP test solos, 2016 strings/brass, pacific / harp is from elsewhere).  As noted the shorts sound really good on the cellos, even for tremolos... More lengths would be great, but I guess we'll see. What's there sounds good/really lively to me though. It seems to hold its own very well, but I think it'll really shine with layering.

It would be good to at least have a time-stretch option... I'd think that after SF kind of standardised TM patches they'd be more prevalent by now, alas... Same as with EW. Great, varied shorts but sometimes you want that extra control. It certainly wouldn't hurt to have TM patches. And they have it for the tremolos, so the basic functionality is already there... Had some hope with OPUS, but nope...

I'll also take the chance to bring up EWQLSO shorts. Those are really good, too. Nice variety and liveliness; especially the 3-way ones.


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## MA-Simon (Oct 22, 2021)

Guys, this has double the layers of lass. That means double the voice count. It should be obvious. The way kontakt handles layers is that it plays all of them, even if you cannot hear them. That is in no way the fault of this library. It is the way it is. More layers, higher demand.


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## Russell Anderson (Oct 23, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Or maybe he has an AMD processor...


Wait, what’s wrong with an AMD processor, is it a single-core issue? Do I need to flip my 5950X computer purchase for tomorrow on its head?


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## Zanshin (Oct 23, 2021)

Russell Anderson said:


> Wait, what’s wrong with an AMD processor, is it a single-core issue? Do I need to flip my 5950X computer purchase for tomorrow on its head?


I really don't know much about the current generation stuff. Every time I upgrade I research the issue though, and it sounds like you have.


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## Russell Anderson (Oct 23, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I really don't know much about the current generation stuff. Every time I upgrade I research the issue though, and it sounds like you have.


To some degree, but I am more confident in my not knowing than I am in my knowing.

I'm just going to go through with it today; the primary importance honestly is the RAM+SSD upgrade happening ASAP and any good-quality CPU; the 7% or whatever performance increase from waiting for Alder Lake or whatever is just not worth the agony of using this machine anymore.


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## Zanshin (Oct 23, 2021)

Russell Anderson said:


> ... just not worth the agony of using this machine anymore.


I've been there! I hope the build goes smoothly for you brother.


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 24, 2021)

Russell Anderson said:


> Wait, what’s wrong with an AMD processor, is it a single-core issue? Do I need to flip my 5950X computer purchase for tomorrow on its head?


The 5 with which your model starts is significantly higher than the 1 in my 1920X.


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## Nando Florestan (Oct 24, 2021)

MA-Simon said:


> Guys, this has double the layers of lass. That means double the voice count. It should be obvious. The way kontakt handles layers is that it plays all of them, even if you cannot hear them. That is in no way the fault of this library. It is the way it is. More layers, higher demand.


Hey, I always knew that, you're saying the obvious. But don't you think that...

1. Scripting could be used to mute layers not in use -- theoretically? (Actually in practice it might even hurt performance.)
2. Additive synthesis exists and it proves that playing a couple hundred WAVs at once is trivial for our CPUs. It's one of the easiest things for a CPU to do in audio, it just sums the samples. There is no technical reason that I can see for Kontakt to be so bad at playing a few tens of simultaneous voices.

Anyway, the difference between my computer and Zanshin's is tremendous, so there must be something else going on. And it's not going to be the case that AMD CPUs are bad at summing, either. But the point of this post is this: accepting the current performance I am seeing is incredibly unrealistic if we consider any optimized audio software.


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## Loerpert (Oct 24, 2021)

Russell Anderson said:


> Wait, what’s wrong with an AMD processor, is it a single-core issue? Do I need to flip my 5950X computer purchase for tomorrow on its head?


Certainly not! 5950x is a beast


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## doctoremmet (Apr 27, 2022)

Incoming, new cello freebie.









Pacific Solo Strings - Cello Freebie (orig. rec.) - Pre-Alpha Demo


www.performancesamples.com




soundcloud.app.goo.gl













Pacific Solo Strings - Cello Freebie (orig. rec.) - Contextual Pre-Alpha Demo


www.performancesamples.com




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


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## muziksculp (Apr 27, 2022)

Sounds wonderful, but Pre-Alpha ? So, how much longer for the release of this Freebie Solo Cello ?


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## doctoremmet (Apr 27, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Sounds wonderful, but Pre-Alpha ? So, how much longer for the release of this Freebie Solo Cello ?


A certain entitlement is shining through…


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## jamessy (Apr 27, 2022)

Crazy that this wasn't considered good enough for Pacific


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## muziksculp (Apr 27, 2022)

If this Freebie is still a Pre-Alpha, I guess Pacific Strings might be released in 2025 if we are very lucky.


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## muk (Apr 29, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> If this Freebie is still a Pre-Alpha, I guess Pacific Strings might be released in 2025 if we are very lucky.


Can you cope until then?


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## doctoremmet (Apr 29, 2022)

muk said:


> Can you cope until then?


The man hardly has any VIs, let alone string libraries. Pacific was going to be his first foray into strings. So… no.


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## novaburst (Apr 29, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> If this Freebie is still a Pre-Alpha, I guess Pacific Strings might be released in 2025 if we are very lucky.


I am renting out time machines if this will help


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## doctoremmet (Apr 29, 2022)




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