# Have you ever been in this situation as a film composer?



## Studio E (Sep 12, 2021)

Long story short; At my level (low/semi-pro) every client is a personal contact basically. I have a friend (from grade school on) who has given me a very large percentage of all the work I’ve been paid for, and he has finally directed his first feature. He has planned on me scoring this film since its inception and I’ve always been excited at the prospect. It’s a first feature for both of us.

The problem. It’s not that the film is “bad” in the low-budget aspect (although it definitely suffers), but the subject material itself and the writing (his) is really downright offensive in 2021 and embarrassing. I’ll leave it at that for now. I’ve had another director view much of the edit, and he was in a state of shock for the writing and subject material. Honestly, I know the director and I’ve always known that this film wouldn’t be high art, but I also think I may have been desensitized to how offensive it would be. It is in the horror/thriller genre with a constant them of sexual assault, more threatened than performed but it’s still just really tough to watch. 

I’ve already scored about 20% of it, and I’m bound to finish it in the next 6 weeks or so. I’m just wondering if I shouldn’t do it under a different name or something. I can tell you that it’s bad enough that I don’t really want to promote it to anyone I know as a work I have done. I’ll be semi-proud of my work as unattached to the film, and contextually, I think I’m doing the job correctly, but it does feel shameful.

Anyone got experience on this?


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## dcoscina (Sep 12, 2021)

Studio E said:


> Long story short; At my level (low/semi-pro) every client is a personal contact basically. I have a friend (from grade school on) who has given me a very large percentage of all the work I’ve been paid for, and he has finally directed his first feature. He has planned on me scoring this film since its inception and I’ve always been excited at the prospect. It’s a first feature for both of us.
> 
> The problem. It’s not that the film is “bad” in the low-budget aspect (although it definitely suffers), but the subject material itself and the writing (his) is really downright offensive in 2021 and embarrassing. I’ll leave it at that for now. I’ve had another director view much of the edit, and he was in a state of shock for the writing and subject material. Honestly, I know the director and I’ve always known that this film wouldn’t be high art, but I also think I may have been desensitized to how offensive it would be. It is in the horror/thriller genre with a constant them of sexual assault, more threatened than performed but it’s still just really tough to watch.
> 
> ...


Wow Eric sorry to hear this. I am sure others could chime in. The only remotely close experience I have to relate is when I was vying for this film back in 1992 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107779 Thought it was billed as the next Last Tango in Paris, It was not what I had envisioned working on as far as subject matter. The director loved the theme I wrote, but I guess the producers were worried I couldn't handle a feature (being 24 years old only having had scored student films and shorts up to that point).

As far as your situation, do you see any negatives from using an alias? I'm sure this might strain your friendship with the director of course...


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## Studio E (Sep 12, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Wow Eric sorry to hear this. I am sure others could chime in. The only remotely close experience I have to relate is when I was vying for this film back in 1992 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107779 I came close but my age (24 with no credits) ultimately meant the job eluded me (it was close though according to the director). It was not what I had envisioned working on as far as subject matter, and I ended up writing a Debussian theme for strings and harp to contrast the somewhat seedy feel of the film. It was fashioned after Last Tango in Paris but it wasn't remotely close in quality.
> 
> As far as your situation, do you see any negatives from using an alias? I'm sure this might strain your friendship with the director of course...



Yeah, I think that is the one big negative, is just straining the relationship with him, and I’m also trying to be objective, about how much I’m just not in touch with the genre, and how potentially small the audience will be. In a way, if I’m doing the work and getting paid, I probably ought to just own it, but definitely not with a great sense of pride. It’s funny how as your dreams become reality, they can still be far from what you imagined.


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## dcoscina (Sep 12, 2021)

Studio E said:


> Yeah, I think that is the one big negative, is just straining the relationship with him, and I’m also trying to be objective, about how much I’m just not in touch with the genre, and how potentially small the audience will be. In a way, if I’m doing the work and getting paid, I probably ought to just own it, but definitely not with a great sense of pride. It’s funny how as your dreams become reality, they can still be far from what you imagined.


Maybe just something to do, get the dough but not endorse a whole lot.


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## Living Fossil (Sep 12, 2021)

Studio E said:


> I’ve already scored about 20% of it, and I’m bound to finish it in the next 6 weeks or so. I’m just wondering if I shouldn’t do it under a different name or something.


I've done some (very few) films using a pseudonym (not because they were offensive though) and that's no problem on its own. You just have to inform your copyright society that you have one pseudonym.
(when being younger i had more often the situation that the production company wouldn't mention my name, because officially i was just a "co-composer" - even if i wrote the whole score alone. And IMDB didn't correct it either. However, since i've got my royalties, I could live with the situation.)

The other aspect is if it will affect you working relation. Probably it will. Vanity is the most widespread substance in film business, and if a director gets the feeling that you are not proud of being part of this particular project he probably won't be happy about it. That's a decision you have to take.
If it's more important to you not to be associated with this particular project, choose the pseudonym.
If the artistic relationship is more important, do it under your name.
Keep in mind that most movies never make it into a bigger awareness. Usually, people don't care too much. And when watching a really bad plot, people won't say: this movie is offensive because of the composer. But, and that's the bad part, maybe they will associate your name with it.

TL;DR: As you see, i can't give you an answer. It's a decision you have to make.


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## tf-drone (Sep 12, 2021)

Well, as a 100% amateur, my 2c is...
If you need the money, use a pseudonym.
If you do not need the money, quit.


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## chillbot (Sep 12, 2021)

Living Fossil said:


> The other aspect is if it will affect you working relation. Probably it will. Vanity is the most widespread substance in film business, and if a director gets the feeling that you are not proud of being part of this particular project he probably won't be happy about it. That's a decision you have to take.


This is probably true. Though I have a few thoughts about this...

1 - Tell him your alias is your "cool" name or stage name, like JXL or Junkie XL instead of Tommy H. Make up something random that could pass as your DJ name like Stud E Baker, I dunno.

2 - Since you're a semi-hobbyist, or whatever you call yourself, I really don't think it matters unless you intend to turn pro or are trying to "build a brand", as the kids say these days. Slap any old name on it.

3 - You don't need to notify BMI/ASCAP or any PRO of your new pseudonym as you can still put your real name on the cue sheet regardless of "Music by blah blah" on the screen credit.

4 - A lot of production companies are going to add this automatically to your IMDB under your real name, unless you maybe specifically ask them not to. I've never asked them not to so I'm not sure how that works, but I have had many credits added to my IMDB, some of which I kind of which hadn't been added, but not enough to try to get them removed.

5 - Makes me nervous when you bring up "offensive in 2021" as there are certainly some topics in our current political climate which I would not touch under any circumstances. I.e. there is a line that could be crossed where not only would I not use my real name, I would quit the project entirely. Something to consider?



dcoscina said:


> Thought it was billed as the next Last Tango in Paris, It was not what I had envisioned working on as far as subject matter.


I really want to see this now.


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## Kony (Sep 12, 2021)

chillbot said:


> I really want to see this now.


If you do, you may never be able to eat butter again.


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## mybadmemory (Sep 12, 2021)

Is it’s just bad in terms of quality I’d just do it and not promote it or list it on my cv or portfolio. If it’s actually offensive to the extent that you feel that many will find it distasteful and you have second thoughts about not even wanting to be associated with it, I’d back out or use a pseudonym.

Im not a music professional but I did run a design agency for 8 years, and we turned down a couple of projects where we just really felt that if it ever turned up while someone googled us it might actually hurt our future business, or even worse, make them think less of us as humans. I think a certain amount of protecting your brand is important in these cases.


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## Saxer (Sep 12, 2021)

Great composers scored bad films. Sometimes the music survived and the movie was forgotton.


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## MusiquedeReve (Sep 12, 2021)

I like to live by the philosophy of "own it or don't do it at all"

But, I am not a professional composer and nobody pays me to write music -- as such, YMMV


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## gzapper (Sep 12, 2021)

If the movie is that bad it'll be forgotten by the time the check clears. 
Unless its so bad it rivals 'The Room', but who scored that one anyways?


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## Kent (Sep 12, 2021)

Mladen Milicevic


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## MaxOctane (Sep 12, 2021)

Finish the score. Do the best you can. Use your real name. Think twice before taking his next project.


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## veranad (Sep 12, 2021)

I hope your friend doesn´t do a search with your name and finds this thread.


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## gzapper (Sep 13, 2021)

kmaster said:


> Mladen Milicevic


He's got about 30 credits since The Room, though that one is loved for being horrible and is probably good press for him.


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## nolotrippen (Sep 13, 2021)

Studio E said:


> Long story short; At my level (low/semi-pro) every client is a personal contact basically. I have a friend (from grade school on) who has given me a very large percentage of all the work I’ve been paid for, and he has finally directed his first feature. He has planned on me scoring this film since its inception and I’ve always been excited at the prospect. It’s a first feature for both of us.
> 
> The problem. It’s not that the film is “bad” in the low-budget aspect (although it definitely suffers), but the subject material itself and the writing (his) is really downright offensive in 2021 and embarrassing. I’ll leave it at that for now. I’ve had another director view much of the edit, and he was in a state of shock for the writing and subject material. Honestly, I know the director and I’ve always known that this film wouldn’t be high art, but I also think I may have been desensitized to how offensive it would be. It is in the horror/thriller genre with a constant them of sexual assault, more threatened than performed but it’s still just really tough to watch.
> 
> ...


If it doesn't edify you, don't do it.


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## Lea1229 (Sep 18, 2021)

Studio E said:


> Long story short; At my level (low/semi-pro) every client is a personal contact basically. I have a friend (from grade school on) who has given me a very large percentage of all the work I’ve been paid for, and he has finally directed his first feature. He has planned on me scoring this film since its inception and I’ve always been excited at the prospect. It’s a first feature for both of us.
> 
> The problem. It’s not that the film is “bad” in the low-budget aspect (although it definitely suffers), but the subject material itself and the writing (his) is really downright offensive in 2021 and embarrassing. I’ll leave it at that for now. I’ve had another director view much of the edit, and he was in a state of shock for the writing and subject material. Honestly, I know the director and I’ve always known that this film wouldn’t be high art, but I also think I may have been desensitized to how offensive it would be. It is in the horror/thriller genre with a constant them of sexual assault, more threatened than performed but it’s still just really tough to watch.
> 
> ...


I find it disheartening that your question seems to be mainly about concern for your reputation - it's seems like you know there's something wrong here. Having a good reputation shouldn't be reliant on using psuedonyms.

From what you describe (you said it's constant (mostly) threatened (but sometimes actual?) sexual assault, and 'shameful') it sounds like rape is at best being used as a punchline or at worst almost glorified. I hope you can understand how silence and participation is effectively an endorsement of this content, and your work is bringing this content closer to having a public platform and wider reach. 

The real question is - do you want to endorse the message this film sends about rape, and do you want to help it reach an audience?


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## Studio E (Sep 19, 2021)

Just as a follow-up, I'm going to own what I do for this film. I'm not going to be shouting from the rooftops about my first feature, and will probably avoid putting myself or anyone else I know in the theater, but I'm not going to hide from it either. After much thought about it, and many opinions or suggestions, it really has to come down to me needing to handle it in the way Eric would handle it, and that is to take responsibility for what I do, for better or for worse. 

As an aside, although the subject material is a bit over-the-top to me, I also have to consider that I know a dozen other people who have all put their reputations on the line and have accepted this film for what it is; a cheesy, psychological-thriller, horror, torture-fest by a 1st-time writer/director. and trust me, we have all probably seen WAY worse as far as content. The film most certainly doesn't glorify any of the violence or sexual content, and when I think of the horrid things I've seen in films, to say nothing of what I haven't, this film is a far cry from being a worst-offender. 

I think my concern partially stems from never having had to be involved so closely, intimately with a film of this nature. Most of what is so horrible about it, is really just the constant threat of something horrible happening, and then some of your basic torture BS that has found it's way into films (oh yay), haha. As far as violence, when I consider films of the horror genre, no one is getting point blank impaled with a running chainsaw (whoops, spoiler). 

I'm just going to suck it up, do the work, and move-on. As the music evolves, I am realizing that I will be proud of much of it. It's just too bad that it has to be attached to this film, but such is life. Onward and upward. Thanks for the input.


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## MartinH. (Sep 19, 2021)

Studio E said:


> The problem. It’s not that the film is “bad” in the low-budget aspect (although it definitely suffers), but the subject material itself and the writing (his) is really downright offensive in 2021 and embarrassing. I’ll leave it at that for now.



Maybe you can look at search results for composers who scored other infamously offensive movies and see if it harmed their careers. 

How offensive are we talking here? Where would you rate it on a scale from 0 to 10?


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## Studio E (Sep 19, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Maybe you can look at search results for composers who scored other infamously offensive movies and see if it harmed their careers.
> 
> How offensive are we talking here? Where would you rate it on a scale from 0 to 10?


To that effect, if I'm being honest, I don't really need to concern myself with what this will do to any perceived career I might have. I am a part-time, semi-professional, ie; can't feed myself of this alone, not even close. I have a very full-time career outside of music and have been participating in what work came my way since my first gig scoring some campaign commercials almost 20 years ago. This is my first feature-length film, but as luck would have it, I'm also already signed-on for two more later this year and early next. 

I don't think I'm really qualified to quantify the level of offense anyone might take to the film, especially since I am so immersed into it at this point. Sorry Martin, I'm not trying to be elusive at all. I think in a way, I'm kind of sorry I brought it up. At the same time, I very much appreciate all the constructive responses. I'm just going to buckle-down and keep pushing through it. Yesterday I managed to finish 2+minutes and also start another cue after that. In the midst of that 2-minute cue, I actually found myself able to lend a little empathy through a note or two of the score for one of the characters, which wasn't something I had imagined until it just happened. In a weird way, artistically, I'm able to empathize and create empathy for their fate, and bring value to the situation of the character (if the director approves the cue), and that actually feels kind of good. It's more storytelling power than what I had initially imagined.

Thanks again for the input.


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## NekujaK (Sep 19, 2021)

One of my earliest scoring projects was an embarrasingly bad indie film. I needed the credit as a stepping stone to more scoring gigs and it actually paid rather well, but there was no way I was going to refer anyone to the film. Fortunately, it didn't get widespread distribution and just faded away.

But I still used it when pitching myself to prospective directors. I was just careful about how I talked about it, emphasizing my working relationship with the director and production team rather than the film itself. And for my showreel, I only included the strongest part of the film, which was the title sequence. Basically, I did what I could to turn lemons into lemonade.

The film I scored was simply an inept production, but your situation sounds more complex, because of the highly offensive content intertwined with your friendship with the director. If you don't need the credit to get further work, use a pseudonym and don't ever mention the film. If you do plan to use the credit, try to do so in a way doesn't require someone to watch the film.

Good luck!


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## Bman70 (Sep 19, 2021)

Studio E said:


> Just as a follow-up, I'm going to own what I do for this film. I'm not going to be shouting from the rooftops about my first feature, and will probably avoid putting myself or anyone else I know in the theater, but I'm not going to hide from it either. After much thought about it, and many opinions or suggestions, it really has to come down to me needing to handle it in the way Eric would handle it, and that is to take responsibility for what I do, for better or for worse.
> 
> As an aside, although the subject material is a bit over-the-top to me, I also have to consider that I know a dozen other people who have all put their reputations on the line and have accepted this film for what it is; a cheesy, psychological-thriller, horror, torture-fest by a 1st-time writer/director. and trust me, we have all probably seen WAY worse as far as content. The film most certainly doesn't glorify any of the violence or sexual content, and when I think of the horrid things I've seen in films, to say nothing of what I haven't, this film is a far cry from being a worst-offender.
> 
> ...


Yeah you never know, some people might leave the theater (or living room if it goes straight to streaming) thinking the soundtrack was at the only redeeming factor. I don't think I'd ever look at the credits and consider blaming the composer for any of the film content; it's too obvious it's just a job and they may have signed a contract without even knowing too many details.


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## José Herring (Sep 19, 2021)

Studio E said:


> Long story short; At my level (low/semi-pro) every client is a personal contact basically. I have a friend (from grade school on) who has given me a very large percentage of all the work I’ve been paid for, and he has finally directed his first feature. He has planned on me scoring this film since its inception and I’ve always been excited at the prospect. It’s a first feature for both of us.
> 
> The problem. It’s not that the film is “bad” in the low-budget aspect (although it definitely suffers), but the subject material itself and the writing (his) is really downright offensive in 2021 and embarrassing. I’ll leave it at that for now. I’ve had another director view much of the edit, and he was in a state of shock for the writing and subject material. Honestly, I know the director and I’ve always known that this film wouldn’t be high art, but I also think I may have been desensitized to how offensive it would be. It is in the horror/thriller genre with a constant them of sexual assault, more threatened than performed but it’s still just really tough to watch.
> 
> ...


It happens. It's a shame but I wouldn't worry too much about reputation. If it's as bad as you say nobody will see it but the credit would show up on your imdb.com having scored a feature. 

I think people do understand that when you are starting out you sometimes have to take the tough jobs. 


The most morally depraved movie that I did was back in 2005 called Deadly End. Heard of it?....see that's my point. But, society since then has gotten so morally depraved that I've seen worse things in MCU films like Deadpool. 

So, my point is that while I was scoring Deadly End I was in the same position as you. Wondering if I wanted to put my name on it. I eventually did to no ill effect other than a fairly rough personally experience that I quickly got over. And the working experience was fine. The guys and I had a good time in spite of the subject matter.


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## José Herring (Sep 19, 2021)

One last thing is that I worked so hard on the film in question that I ended up getting recommended for other films that I really did get some success from.


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## ScarletJerry (Sep 19, 2021)

So how do you officially get an alias that you can use on IMDB? Asking for a friend.


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## MarkusS (Sep 20, 2021)

Well, I'd only be concerned if you have an ethical problem with it, for example, if it's racist or sexist. But you shouldn't change your name, you should make it clear that you are uncomfortable with the subject or how it is treated and bail out of the project. 

If the film is just plain bad, who cares? Just own it, make an over-the-top good score for it, and have some fun.


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## GNP (Sep 20, 2021)

Studio E said:


> Long story short; At my level (low/semi-pro) every client is a personal contact basically. I have a friend (from grade school on) who has given me a very large percentage of all the work I’ve been paid for, and he has finally directed his first feature. He has planned on me scoring this film since its inception and I’ve always been excited at the prospect. It’s a first feature for both of us.
> 
> The problem. It’s not that the film is “bad” in the low-budget aspect (although it definitely suffers), but the subject material itself and the writing (his) is really downright offensive in 2021 and embarrassing. I’ll leave it at that for now. I’ve had another director view much of the edit, and he was in a state of shock for the writing and subject material. Honestly, I know the director and I’ve always known that this film wouldn’t be high art, but I also think I may have been desensitized to how offensive it would be. It is in the horror/thriller genre with a constant them of sexual assault, more threatened than performed but it’s still just really tough to watch.
> 
> ...


You can always tell them to find someone else if you're not comfortable with it.
On the other hand, if you're going to do it, it's best to find out from the director why things are depicted the way they are in the story. *Just because it's hard to watch, doesn't mean it's not trying to send a positive message. *Perhaps this is where your music can come in.

For example, if a mother was getting raped in front of her child, don't play typical horrendous, tense music. Maybe play a sweet lullaby in juxtaposition to the scene. It'll be 10 times as powerful.


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