# VEPro times out after 25 hours



## chillbot (Feb 23, 2017)

I've been dealing with this on one computer for a year now... I kept thinking it might fix itself after I upgraded everything. Well I upgraded everything and now it's doing the same thing on TWO computers.

I guess it kind of makes sense that I'm having the same issue, the two computers are identical in every way. 12-core i7-4930K @ 3.4 GHz 64GB RAM Win7 Pro... RME HDSPe AIO... MidiOverLAN.. VEPro 5.4.15566. I have about 25GB loaded on one and 20GB on the other. All different libraries... maybe I'll go through and list the libraries and see if there's one common to both that could be causing it.

Anyway roughly every 25 hours, VEPro stops responding to midi (and I can't click on the kontakt keyboard, for example, to trigger any audio out). I close VEPro but it still stays loaded in memory, I have to manually shut it down from task manager. Then reload and everything works fine.

I've posted about this before but no one was able to help... I've tried everything I can possibly think of at this point.

Can any of you think of ANY little thing I can try no matter how seemingly random or insignificant? I'll try anything! The fact that it's doing it on both machines is a clue, right?

BTW I have a third machine that works fine, it's a different configuration with only 24GB of RAM but it is running the same audio card, same version of MidiOverLAN, same version of VEPRo.


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## C-Wave (Feb 23, 2017)

If you're serious about this you would contact [email protected]
They're awake and responding right now!


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## chillbot (Feb 23, 2017)

I don't feel like it's a library issue but here's what I have loaded on the machines:

Machine 1 Kontakt: Albion ONE, Albion V, Cinematic Studio Strings, Metropolis Ark 1, Symphobia, Cinebrass, Spitfire Symphonic Brass, Hollywood Winds, Embertone Solo Series, EWQLSO, Stefania Maratti Solo Flute
Machine 1 UVI: Bohemian Violin
Machine 1 G-Player

Machine 2 Kontakt: Albion ONE, CinePerc AUX, HZ01 Perc, Nive Volt Audio Taiko, Shou Drum, Copperphone, 8dio Studio Percussion Exotic, 8dio Epic Percussion, Ethno World 6, RA, Bolivian Pan Flute, 24 Tone Gongs, World Impact Global Percussion, Damage, Evolve, Stormdrum, Addictive Drums, Kontakt Library, EWQLSO, Acoustic Legends, Grand Hammered Dulcimer, Iron Guitars, Shreddage, Olympus Choir, Requiem, Mercury Elements
Machine 2 Engine: Forest Kingdom
Machine 2 Play: Gypsy
Machine 2 G-Player

Machine 3 Kontakt: HZ Piano, Piano in Blue, Una Corda, 8dio Prepared Piano, Emotional Piano, Spitfire Felt Piano, Spitfire Harp, EWQLSO, Straight Ahead Bass, Orange Tree Core Bass Pear
Machine 3 Ivory
Machine 3 Keyscape
Machine 3 MOTU ElectricKeys
Machine 3 Lounge Lizard
Machine 3 Trillian
Machine 3 G-Player

OK so after doing all of that... the only library that is loaded on both 1 & 2 (timing out) and not on 3 (working fine) is Albion ONE. That can hardly be the problem? Anything I'm missing?


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## chillbot (Feb 23, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> If you're serious about this you would contact [email protected]
> They're awake and responding right now!


Thanks just sent an email.


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## Symfoniq (Feb 23, 2017)

If this keeps happening after a consistent period of time, I'd suspect your ethernet router/switch might be to blame. Are you using DHCP to assign IP addresses? If so, it seems plausible that your DHCP leases are set to expire every ~24 hours. Perhaps when your computers renew their DHCP leases, they're being assigned different IP addresses, making VE Pro unresponsive?


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## chillbot (Feb 23, 2017)

Great thank you thank you for any and all suggestions. I just switched them all over to static IP addresses. However it wouldn't explain why the problem isn't occuring in the third computer... but since it has a different ethernet adapter... maybe. Definitely worth a shot, will report back in 25 hours!


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## redbeard (Feb 23, 2017)

Chillbot, I would be interested in your findings here because I am running into the same exact issue. I don't know if it happens exactly after 25 hours but I'd say it takes about a day or so. My computers are on static IPs so I'm pretty sure that's not going to fix your issue.

I'm running windows 7 pro as well. Started thinking maybe it's related to a windows scheduling thing hijacking the network and messing up the connection between the slave and host. Does it only happen when you have a lot of stuff loaded? It seems more likely to go numb on me if I load it to the brim but I haven't devoted a full day to verify this theory yet.


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## redbeard (Feb 23, 2017)

Also, does it happen at a certain time, or just after 25 hours of uptime?


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## chillbot (Feb 23, 2017)

redbeard said:


> Also, does it happen at a certain time, or just after 25 hours of uptime?


Not at a certain time, I've been keeping a log and it's pretty close to 25 hours. Sometime more than 24.5 hours and less than 25.25 hours I think pretty consistently. Don't have an exact time because it hasn't timed out while I'm using it since I started keeping a log (though it has in the past). It's an odd number, something about if it had been 24 hours exactly might have made sense in some way, not sure how. I'd be interested to know if yours is the same amount of time.

As mentioned above I now have a support ticket into VSL, maybe they'll help. I also have a tech coming over Monday to work on it for a while, we'll see.

To your other question I don't know if it's relevant to what I have loaded, they're always loaded the same. One has 25GB (of 64GB) loaded the other 20GB (of 64GB). But the one that is working has 18GB (of 24GB) loaded so on a purely percentage-based theory it's not that, unless it's a certain number that triggers it.

Please keep looking into a solution because it's driving me batty...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 23, 2017)

My guess is that your DHCP address times out.

Edit: you're ahead of me. Never mind.


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## chillbot (Feb 23, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> My guess is that your DHCP address times out.
> 
> Edit: you're ahead of me. Never mind.



Yeah thanks though for the input. I assigned them all static IP addresses and was super optimistic about it... until redbeard said he has the same problem. Will find out tomorrow I guess...


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## chillbot (Feb 24, 2017)

Welp the static IP addresses did not fix the issue, as predicted.


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## esounds (Feb 24, 2017)

chillbot said:


> I've been dealing with this on one computer for a year now... I kept thinking it might fix itself after I upgraded everything. Well I upgraded everything and now it's doing the same thing on TWO computers.
> 
> I guess it kind of makes sense that I'm having the same issue, the two computers are identical in every way. 12-core i7-4930K @ 3.4 GHz 64GB RAM Win7 Pro... RME HDSPe AIO... MidiOverLAN.. VEPro 5.4.15566. I have about 25GB loaded on one and 20GB on the other. All different libraries... maybe I'll go through and list the libraries and see if there's one common to both that could be causing it.
> 
> ...



I might be able to save you some pain here.....

I use to keep my slave machines on for weeks at a time....and I have many of them. After a certain amount of times a VE PRO would lock up. With in a couple of hours multiple machines would lock up. It frustrated me for years. I determined after a lot of effort and research that it has to do with some scripts in Kontakt that seem to count time but I read in a scripting forum that there is a limit to how high that number can go. A question was asked what happens when it hits that number....no one knew......but I am convinced it just locks up when it hits that number. 

I stopped keeping my machines on and restart everyday and have never had a single lock up since. I also have a handful of slave machines and they do not run Kontakt and they have never had the lock up issue.....so I am convinced it is Kontakt/scripts that are doing it.


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## chillbot (Feb 24, 2017)

Hmm I appreciate the help and input the only thing I would say is that I have one machine (running kontakt) that never has a problem? And I know a lot of other people running the same configuration don't have this problem?


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## dbudde (Feb 24, 2017)

When your machine locks up, check the VE Pro e-licenser dongles and see if any of them are asleep (the led will be out if it is asleep). If this is happening when you aren't using the machines, then it's possible one or more of your USB ports is sleeping and disabling the e-licenser. If this is the problem, then you'll need a way to ping the USB ports periodically to keep them awake. Might be a function of your BIOS settings or some Windows settings.


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## redbeard (Feb 24, 2017)

Chillbot, have you tried loading just a few gigs of kontakt instruments to see if the problem persists under low load? I am going to try that tomorrow unless you can confirm it does not make a difference.


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## ChristopherDoucet (Feb 24, 2017)

I actually have this same issue. If I leave my slaves on overnight, when I wake up in the morning, they dont play and they crash. Weird.


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## chillbot (Feb 25, 2017)

redbeard said:


> Chillbot, have you tried loading just a few gigs of kontakt instruments to see if the problem persists under low load? I am going to try that tomorrow unless you can confirm it does not make a difference.


I would do this if I ever have a day I can take off but right now I can't afford to not have them loaded for 25 hours.


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## chillbot (Feb 25, 2017)

dbudde said:


> When your machine locks up, check the VE Pro e-licenser dongles and see if any of them are asleep (the led will be out if it is asleep). If this is happening when you aren't using the machines, then it's possible one or more of your USB ports is sleeping and disabling the e-licenser. If this is the problem, then you'll need a way to ping the USB ports periodically to keep them awake. Might be a function of your BIOS settings or some Windows settings.


I was super excited to try this but unfortunately when the machines timed out today the lights were still on on the e-licensers. Thanks for the input though!


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## dbudde (Feb 25, 2017)

chillbot said:


> I was super excited to try this but unfortunately when the machines timed out today the lights were still on on the e-licensers. Thanks for the input though!



One other thought. There is a process that runs in the background for the e-licencer (called Synsopos on the Mac, probably the same name on the PC, but not sure). Sometimes this process hangs for reasons unknown to me. So you might check to see if this process is still active and not hung. I assume this can be done in the task manager, but it's been 20 years since I used a Windows machine that I am not sure exactly how to check a process that doesn't have a GUI.


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## esounds (Feb 26, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Hmm I appreciate the help and input the only thing I would say is that I have one machine (running kontakt) that never has a problem? And I know a lot of other people running the same configuration don't have this problem?



I have done a lot of research on this....My machines would literally take about 2 weeks to freeze although I was "sleeping" them every night but not restarting. Just because you have one machine running KOntakt that does not do this means nothing unless you test it with the exact same patches loaded. The problem is not Kontakt but the scripts used in particular libraries. I suspect if you test with the same patches you will get the same result.


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## reddognoyz (Feb 26, 2017)

I also think it's kontakt, i have the same issue.


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## synthetic (Feb 27, 2017)

I'm having a similar issue. I see MIDI coming into VE Pro, because the green MIDI light on the VE Channel lights up (in the left column.) But Kontakt does not see MIDI and playing the on-screen Kontakt keyboard doesn't do anything. I need to reboot when this happens.


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## synthetic (Feb 28, 2017)

I've noticed that it doesn't happen if I quit Cubase at the end of the night. So I've just been quitting and then opening my project again in the morning. Sub-optimal, of course.


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## chillbot (Mar 8, 2017)

Well I have had two of the smartest music techs in LA spend countless hours on this and no solution. VSL told me to send them the crash log, which I did... the entire 23GB file... but haven't heard back from them and that was a couple weeks ago.

I did have to take Play out of one of my computers because we confirmed it was causing crackling within Kontakt if it was in the same VEPro instance even if nothing was loaded. So now I'm running Play standalone outside of VEPro on that computer. Not at all surprisingly, when VEPro timed out today Play was still running just fine. Do you think it's worth trying to run everything standalone? Is there another alternative to VEPro I could try? Could I just run everything in Sonar on those machines?


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## synthpunk (Mar 8, 2017)

I would follow up again with Vienna usually they're pretty good but perhaps they're really looking into it or even forgotten. 

There is plogue bidule but I'm unsure if it is a good alternative or not.


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## azeteg (Mar 20, 2017)

First of all, please send a process sample from when your process is stalled. (using Activity Monitor on Mac, or Process Explorer on Win) It could provide me with some information about which thread (or plugin) is causing the hang.

If you could make a minimal reproduction, it would also be a lot easier to find out the cause for the issues you are seeing. We have (without success) tried reproducing. You could perhaps try:

1. One connected VEPro instance with one single track, with a signal generator feeding into your master - running for 25hours+. Verify that project still sounds as it should.

2. The same as (1), but mute the channel with the signal generator. Let it run for 25+ hours, then activate signal generator again and see if it produces sound.

After this, you could go on adding one plugin at a time, keeping that 25+ hours verification time.

Annoying, I know, but sometimes it can be annoying to nail down such problems.


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## chillbot (Mar 20, 2017)

Thanks for the response... I sent two mini-dumps to VSL support per their request but never heard back after that (the regular dump file was 25GB and they said it was too big).

I definitely am having a hard time troubleshooting because 25 hours is just too long to wait and I work every day. I can't afford to have the machine not in use for 25 hours. However I am going on vacation in a couple weeks so maybe I'll see if a tech can come by once a day and start the troubleshooting process, thanks.

At this point I am considering either abandoning VEPro and running Sonar on all 3 computers or else scheduling a quit and reopen every morning at 3am.


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## azeteg (Mar 20, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Thanks for the response... I sent two mini-dumps to VSL support per their request but never heard back after that (the regular dump file was 25GB and they said it was too big).
> 
> I definitely am having a hard time troubleshooting because 25 hours is just too long to wait and I work every day. I can't afford to have the machine not in use for 25 hours. However I am going on vacation in a couple weeks so maybe I'll see if a tech can come by once a day and start the troubleshooting process, thanks.
> 
> At this point I am considering either abandoning VEPro and running Sonar on all 3 computers or else scheduling a quit and reopen every morning at 3am.



I found your support case and have answered you there directly.

Cheers,
Martin


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## chillbot (Mar 21, 2017)

redbeard said:


> Chillbot, I would be interested in your findings here because I am running into the same exact issue.





esounds said:


> With in a couple of hours multiple machines would lock up.





ChristopherDoucet said:


> I actually have this same issue. If I leave my slaves on overnight, when I wake up in the morning, they dont play and they crash.





reddognoyz said:


> I also think it's kontakt, i have the same issue.





synthetic said:


> I'm having a similar issue.


What sound card are you guys using?

VSL support says there appears to be a driver hanging, likely a midi or audio driver.

I'm using MidiOverLan on 3 computers and only 2 hang. So it seems odd it would be midi.

But the 2 that hang have a different audio card, they're using a RME HDSPe AIO. The one that works is using a RME HDSP 9632. Any connection?


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## Ashermusic (Mar 21, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Well I have had two of the smartest music techs in LA spend countless hours on this and no solution. VSL told me to send them the crash log, which I did... the entire 23GB file... but haven't heard back from them and that was a couple weeks ago.
> 
> I did have to take Play out of one of my computers because we confirmed it was causing crackling within Kontakt if it was in the same VEPro instance even if nothing was loaded. So now I'm running Play standalone outside of VEPro on that computer. Not at all surprisingly, when VEPro timed out today Play was still running just fine. Do you think it's worth trying to run everything standalone? Is there another alternative to VEPro I could try? Could I just run everything in Sonar on those machines?



You have more than 1 slave computer. Run the Play stuff in VE Pro on one and the Kontakt in VE Pro on the other.


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## reddognoyz (Mar 21, 2017)

I have it happen mainly on my Mac.I have a metric halo set up. I have always suspected Kontakt and NI's Studio Drummer, I don't even remember why : ) Nontheless it happens on my Visiondaw PC slave as well, which has no soundcard. Eventually both VEP metas will crash, so the best practice for me it to quit and restart VEP at the start of each day or session. I keep a template, but I modify it as I see fit and save a version of it named by project/episode, so a restart isn't a huge deal... but it does take a little time.


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## chillbot (Mar 21, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> You have more than 1 slave computer. Run the Play stuff in VE Pro on one and the Kontakt in VE Pro on the other.


Thanks but I really only use Play for Gypsy, so it would be a bit of a waste... and I can say with certainty that Play is not causing any of my problems with VEPro.


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## afterlight82 (Mar 21, 2017)

I have a similar issue where my VEPros will crash on quit after being left alone for a while. They'll play when I come back to them, but if I quit the sequence, even though they're decoupled, the "disconnecting" process of the instances seems to crash - it'll stall at a particular instance, it starts disconnecting them, but maybe on the third, fourth or fifth or whatever - locks up. Have to task manager out of there and restart the machine, whereupon it's fine.


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## Christof (Mar 21, 2017)

The easiest solution is to shut down all machines overnight.Saves a lot of energy.
I am from Vienna


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## chillbot (Mar 22, 2017)

Christof said:


> The easiest solution is to shut down all machines overnight.Saves a lot of energy.


I know but I regularly work until 11/12pm and then get up at 4/5am and back to work, pretty much 7 days a week. That's not something that's going to work for me with the time it takes to shut down and boot up 4 machines, plus load all the projects, plus every now and then you fire them up and something's not working quite right...


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## Ashermusic (Mar 22, 2017)

If when you now and then "fire them up and something's not working quite right.." there is probably a problem in your rig that sooner or later is going to bite you on the ass. And booting up 4 machines every morning probably takes a half hour during which you can have a cup of coffee or tea, visit the rest room, read a forum, etc.

I know you have an active career going, congrats on that, but I have known a lot of composers here in LA who proceed the way you describe, and they burn out. I don't want to see that happen to you.


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## chillbot (Mar 22, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> If when you now and then "fire them up and something's not working quite right.." there is probably a problem in your rig that sooner or later is going to bite you on the ass. And booting up 4 machines every morning probably takes a half hour during which you can have a cup of coffee or tea, visit the rest room, read a forum, etc.
> 
> I know you have an active career going, congrats on that, but I have known a lot of composers here in LA who proceed the way you describe, and they burn out. I don't want to see that happen to you.


Appreciate it.

Clarify a bit. I think 1 in 20 times when I reboot something does not work properly, it's not super common. Most of the time it is a usb midi interface not recognized, or midioverlan not talking between two machines. No idea why, a quick reboot usually fixes it but not until the time taken to diagnose the problem. I think it's just a hazard of having four machines talking to each other. Occasionally it is much worse... when you leave your computers on ALL the time, certain things will eventually die (power supply, hard drive), these things tend to work until you decide to reboot, at which point they don't reboot. This is something I accept and deal with... when I do power down my system (vacation) I always make sure I have a day to get everything back up and running in case there are any issues.

In the morning literally five minutes after I wake up I have my contacts in, coffee in hand, writing music. This is very important to me. 30 minutes would be unbearable. I'm big on multitasking so I check my email and visit the forum while I write (like right now). Later in the morning I sit down and relax and read an actual newspaper. But first thing in the morning I'm like a superhero powered by coffee. Coffeeman can't wait to get to work.

Also I only work 60-70 hours a week... don't think I'm in any risk of burning out... I spend a lot of time with the family, golf a bit, exercise every day... it's all good but thanks!

EDIT: Also I have a small solar display on the studio but we have a massive solar display on the main house... I don't pay much for electricity if anyone is concerned. Though I'm not sure powering down for 4-5 hours a night would change all that much.


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## givemenoughrope (Mar 22, 2017)

You do 70 hours a week with contact lenses in!? Mine fall out in a hour.


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## chillbot (Mar 22, 2017)

30 years... first thing I do every morning is put them in... last thing I do every night is take them out. Disposable ones that you toss every month. Surprisingly, my optometrist says my eyes are perfectly healthy.

What was this thread about again? No idea.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 22, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Appreciate it.
> 
> 
> Also I only work 60-70 hours a week... don't think I'm in any risk of burning out... I spend a lot of time with the family, golf a bit, exercise every day... it's all good but thanks!
> ...



*ONLY* 60-70 hours a week?


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## chillbot (Mar 22, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> *ONLY* 60-70 hours a week?


Well I'm guessing your smiley means you know this is probably about average maybe even under-average in LA. I know a lot of cats putting in 80-100 hours. But my schedule does not feel busy to me. I am a creature of habit, same routine almost every day:

5am-8am work 3 hours
8am-8:30am breakfast, newspaper
8:30am-11:30am work 3 hours
11:30am-2:30pm gym, exercise, lunch, shower
2:30-5:30pm work 3 hours
5:30-9:00pm cook dinner, hang with the kids, watch sports, put the kids to bed
9:00-11:00pm work 2 hours

So that's 11 hours and I work 7 days a week. But it doesn't add up to 77 hours... a couple days per week we'll go out and I won't work after dinner. One night per week I have softball league. Once per week I'll cut out a morning or afternoon work session and golf instead. Anyway it seems ok. If I'm on a tight deadline I'll cut down from 6 hours sleep to 4 hours for a day or two.

The downside is it's hard to get away from work when it's always there right out your backdoor. I think I would enjoy taking weekends off if I could but I also enjoy working, so. Lastly it's actually harder to take weekends off and easier to take weekdays off. So many people in this city send you a project Friday afternoon and expect it back Monday morning. It's shit but it's the way it is.


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## chillbot (Mar 22, 2017)

Back to the original topic... or perhaps combining the topics... I'm taking a day or possibly two off work and taking the fam down to San Diego in a few days. So I will finally be able to do some tests on the computers since each test takes 25 hours to get a result.

I guess on one computer I will load a fresh instance of VEPro, a single instance of Kontakt, and a single instrument. Does this sound right? Anything else you would try?

On the other computer I am thinking of installing Sonar and loading the same, one instance of Kontakt and one instrument. (Using Sonar as just a VST host.) If VSL support is correct about a driver hanging, I might find the issue has nothing to do with VEPro at all...?


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## synthetic (Mar 22, 2017)

RME soundcard here, HDSPe MADI FX.


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## AlexRuger (Mar 22, 2017)

Have you checked your Windows power options? Could be that you have hybrid sleep enabled, hard disk is allowed to go to sleep, etc...

I'm sure those techs you had come by would've checked that, but I haven't seen it brought up in this thread so it's worth asking.


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## chillbot (Mar 22, 2017)

AlexRuger said:


> Could be that you have hybrid sleep enabled, hard disk is allowed to go to sleep, etc...


Hmm definitely yes to not letting the HD sleep... I don't see any "hybrid sleep" options under sleep in the power options, though it is set to "never" sleep. Is there anywhere else I should look?


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## Ashermusic (Mar 22, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Well I'm guessing your smiley means you know this is probably about average maybe even under-average in LA. I know a lot of cats putting in 80-100 hours.



And you know what we call most of them? Divorced.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 22, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Well I'm guessing your smiley means you know this is probably about average maybe even under-average in LA. I know a lot of cats putting in 80-100 hours. But my schedule does not feel busy to me. I am a creature of habit, same routine almost every day:
> 
> 5am-8am work 3 hours
> 8am-8:30am breakfast, newspaper
> ...



I'm impressed by your discipline and your work ethic.


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## AlexRuger (Mar 22, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Hmm definitely yes to not letting the HD sleep... I don't see any "hybrid sleep" options under sleep in the power options, though it is set to "never" sleep. Is there anywhere else I should look?



Nope, sounds good.


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## marclawsonmusic (Mar 22, 2017)

I would guess this is something to do with power management (green) settings on your NIC or some other component of the computer. Windows 10 seems to be more 'sleep-friendly' too... my Win10 computer goes into low-power mode all the time.

PS - DHCP leases are generally longer than 24 hours, but not a bad guess!

On my Mac, some of the hard drives go to sleep after a few hours and, since they are not Apple-certified, it hangs my computer. These are sample drives so I can't start VEPro when this happens. To work around this, I eject and shut off my drives when I am done working, but you basically work 24x7, so you have different requirements. 

I would never expect a software program like VEPro to stay active and 'ready' 24x7, but maybe that is their intent. With all the external hard drives, sleep mode on computers, hibernation, 'green' settings, etc... I can't imagine a network-and-hard-disk-aware program that could handle all those scenarios and stay available 24x7... but again maybe that is their intent.

You have Martin on the case and there's no one better (on planet Earth) to help you. Good luck!


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## chillbot (Mar 26, 2017)

OK so I was finally able to do some troubleshooting and I got the worst possible result, as far as possible things I could have eliminated from the equation:

Machine 1 I rebooted and loaded a fresh instance of VEPro, one instance of Kontakt, and one single patch (Albion ONE short spiccato).

Machine 2 I rebooted and loaded a blank Sonar project, inserted one instance of Kontakt, and one single patch (Albion ONE short spiccato).

After 25 hours, no timeouts, both machines fully functional. I left them for a total of 48 hours, still functioning, no issues.

This would initially point to the possibility of a certain library, though I doubt it (and I hope not, it would take forever to troubleshoot) because the ONLY library loaded on machine 1 & 2 and not on machine 3 is Albion ONE, which I used for my test. Unless it could be a certain patch?

Does this mean it could be a be a function of loading too much into RAM? (As has been suggested.) It could be related to VEPro or it could be completely unrelated, maybe too much loaded into Kontakt? My next test I would load Sonar instead of VEPro and see if it could handle my 25GB template without timing out. But I'm obviously not loading 25GB into one instance of Kontakt, it's over about 10 instances. Is there any certain limit that Kontakt can handle, say like 3GB per instance or something?

Current template:

Machine 1 (times out) has 25GB loaded into 64GB
Machine 2 (times out) has 15GB loaded into 64GB
Machine 3 (doesn't time out) has 16GB loaded into 24GB

Just to reiterate, machines 1 & 2 are exactly identical hardware, machine 3 is different.

So machine 3 has more loaded into RAM and doesn't time out... but only about half of that is Kontakt, there's a bunch of Keyscape, Trillian, Ivory, and other stuff on that machine. Machine 2 has less loaded into RAM but it's 98% Kontakt, could that matter?


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## ChristopherDoucet (Mar 26, 2017)

chillbot said:


> What sound card are you guys using?
> 
> VSL support says there appears to be a driver hanging, likely a midi or audio driver.
> 
> ...



1. Focusrite Rednet 1 with 2 PCI cards. 

Often times, I am ok to turn off my slaves, but sometimes when I am under the gun, I will only sleep in 2-4 hour increments and when I'm on that schedule, its nice to wake up and BAM, I'm writing. But every once a day or so, everything hangs and stalls and I have to restart.


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## azeteg (Mar 30, 2017)

My suspicion right now is that something is depending on a 32-bit integer timestamp. The maximum number that can be represented by a 32-bit unsigned integer is 4294967296, which happens to be 27 hours and 3 minutes of audio at 44100Hz.

When left in a playback mode, the sample stamp counter keeps on counting in free-running mode. I am not aware of any limits within our VEPro code (we always use 64-bit integers for sample stamps), but perhaps there is another plugin or Kontakt script that gets tripped by the wrapping of the samplestamp, thus hanging?


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## Jdiggity1 (Jun 23, 2018)

Did anybody feel like they got closer to an explanation with this issue?
@reddognoyz ? @synthetic ?
I also get it on a new machine from VisionDaw.
~25 hours after loading the metaframe, VEP becomes mostly unresponsive (engine at 0%, no audio, but can click around inside), CPU kicks into overdrive, need to force quit from task manager.
Not network related, not power management related, still possible it could be a specific library i guess...
Not sure about the whole 32-bit integer thing. 27 hours is too long, and it runs at 48kHz, not 44.1.
And a second machine that runs 32-bit plugins does not have this issue.
VEP v5.4.16181


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## chillbot (Jun 23, 2018)

Have you considered it may be an ancient Fijian spirit that I brought back from Fiji with me...


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## marclawsonmusic (Jun 23, 2018)

I still get weird behavior with Play on VEPro 5. This is why I quit VEPro and reboot my computer when I close down my studio for the day.

Might be worth going to VEPro 6 since they re-built the engine from the ground up. Performance boost too.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jun 24, 2018)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Might be worth going to VEPro 6 since they re-built the engine from the ground up. Performance boost too.


I would consider it if it weren't for this: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t42782-VEP6---engine-stops-every-couple-of-days#post257302
Exact same problem experienced in VEP6.


chillbot said:


> Have you considered it may be an ancient Fijian spirit that I brought back from Fiji with me...


Yes


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## marclawsonmusic (Jun 25, 2018)

Ouch.

The only software that has ever crashed my VEPro is Play. If I load / unload my metaframe (VEPro server) multiple times, I will eventually get a DLL error (on Windows) from Play engine .DLL. Since it only happens after loading / unloading Play multiple times (without restarting the computer), I suspect that Play might have a memory leak somewhere.

It might be a worthy test to run your metaframe without Play (if that's possible for you) to see if you get the same issue. It sounded like some of the folks on that VSL post were also using Play.


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## chillbot (Jun 25, 2018)

marclawsonmusic said:


> It might be a worthy test to run your metaframe without Play (if that's possible for you) to see if you get the same issue. It sounded like some of the folks on that VSL post were also using Play.


On one computer that times out I run play outside of VEPro as standalone and on the other there is no trace of play...


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## marclawsonmusic (Jun 25, 2018)

I guess that rules out Play, then. Bummer, guys... really. :-(


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## Jdiggity1 (Sep 17, 2018)

As an update, I still could not troubleshoot to the point of being able to identify the cause.
However, I have been getting around this timeout issue via Task Scheduler and batch commands that will automatically close VEP completely, restart the system, then reopen the template and be all ready for work the next day. Terrific.

But here's the next conundrum.... Every monday, VEP dreads going back to work and will hang on load, requiring a force quit and manual reload of the template.
Having to do this one day a week is much better than doing it every single day... but why monday???


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## tmhuud (Sep 17, 2018)

Maybe it hates Mondays, like I do. But seriously, ONLY Monday? Your sure?

The only time VePro hangs for us (I should say USED to hang) was due to Windoze Defender. Once we made exceptions to Sample folders (excluding certain ones, primarily 8dio, SAM and what not) it stopped hanging. 

Next time it does that I would monitor it and see if hangs at the SAME place all the time.


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## Jdiggity1 (Sep 17, 2018)

tmhuud said:


> Maybe it hates Mondays, like I do. But seriously, ONLY Monday? Your sure?
> 
> The only time VePro hangs for us (I should say USED to hang) was due to Windoze Defender. Once we made exceptions to Sample folders (excluding certain ones, primarily 8dio, SAM and what not) it stopped hanging.
> 
> Next time it does that I would monitor it and see if hangs at the SAME place all the time.


Yyyyyep. Every Monday, and only Monday.
Good tip about Windoze Defender. I'll quadruple check that.

UPDATE: As I suspected, all sample drives have been added to the exclusions list.


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## chillbot (Sep 17, 2018)

But in Australia Monday is Tuesday so is your Aussie Tuesday like our Monday?


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## Jdiggity1 (Sep 17, 2018)

chillbot said:


> But in Australia Monday is Tuesday so is your Aussie Tuesday like our Monday?


Ok I have now set the slaves to Australia local time.
I've got a good feeling about this...


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## chillbot (Sep 17, 2018)

Oh no.


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## tmhuud (Sep 17, 2018)

That’s an interesting test, changing the date/time stamp on the system. Lol. Let us know what happens!


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## chillbot (Oct 1, 2018)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Yyyyyep. Every Monday, and only Monday.


Every. G-d. Damn. Monday.


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## chrisr (Oct 1, 2018)

Jdiggity1 said:


> UPDATE: As I suspected, all sample drives have been added to the exclusions list.



Maybe add any unique, music only, file types to be excluded also (.nki, .nkm, .nicnt, etc...)


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## chrisr (Nov 13, 2018)

Hiya - sorry to drag up this old thread...

Just had my eLicenser Control Centre open to activate Cubase 9.5. The same eLicenser handles _VEP licences_.

Just noticed there is an item at the top of the list of licences that just says:
"All Applications, Steinberg, Non-Movable, Remaining Time: 25h"

I suspect it's got nothing to do with the particular VEP 25hr problem at hand but it seemed like a bit of a coincidence (and VEP is handled by the same licence system) which reminded me of this old thread and so I thought I'd just mention it.

cheers,
Chris


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## Jdiggity1 (Nov 14, 2018)

chrisr said:


> Hiya - sorry to drag up this old thread...
> 
> Just had my eLicenser Control Centre open to activate Cubase 9.5. The same eLicenser handles _VEP licences_.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip Chris.
It sounds like you're looking at a license that was installed as a timed trial.
I have the same thing for other trial licenses on my account. Though they range from "399 hours left" to "2 months after starting license Usage Period", etc.


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## chrisr (Nov 14, 2018)

Hiya Jdiggity1 - yeah I figured it would probably be a red herring... ah well :(


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## Aaron Sapp (Dec 12, 2018)

Has anybody figured out this issue yet? Been dealing with VEPRO timing out every day for a longgggg time. It's super annoying.


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## storyteller (Dec 12, 2018)

Just a thought to add to the troubleshooting... 

I'm on OSX, so I do not know if this may be similar in Windows, but I have noticed that if I have Sonarworks Systemwide as the default system audio device (regardless of whether headphone correction is turned on/off), that it will periodically disconnect/reconnect my audio devices and will inevitably wreak havoc on video playback on websites, internally, etc. I can't fathom what is going on programmatically to cause the skipping around in the videos on youtube, vimeo, or even local files and even playback in FCPX - but it IS directly related to Sonarworks Systemwide. I'm on Mojave. So - my thought is that if you are running Systemwide as a default system audio device on either your local or VEP machine (and regardless of your chosen outputs in your audio apps - mine is my Apogee Quartet for example) - then it is possible that could cause a disconnect with VEP. It was one of the last things on my laundry list of tests to uncover where my issue was coming from. Granted, I'm not running VEP - but the same logic could apply to a VEP setup.

Running the Sonarworks plugin inside a DAW doesn't seem to have the same effect. It is quite literally just Systemwide being enabled as the default device that causes the problems I have seen...


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## Grizzlymv (Dec 12, 2018)

Does it time out only when it run by itself or you also have your daw open? I used to have that issue for a long time. Actually my daw was freezing every day (Cubase pro) which also caused issues in vepro . What I started to do lately is that Everytime I'm going away for several hours (such as night), I close my Daw which just leave vepro open. Never had a freeze or crash since then. The problem really was caused by the daw. If you do have the issue just with vepro open, then it might be something else.


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## Aaron Sapp (Dec 12, 2018)

Basically just have my DAW open with VEPRO instruments loaded. Go to bed, get back to work the next day and more often than not VEPRO won't play and I have to basically force VEPRO and Cubase to close and reload the project. It seems to happen after a certain number of hours open (25 does sound about right).

Audio tracks in Cubase continue to play, so I can only surmise it's a VEPRO issue.


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## Grizzlymv (Dec 12, 2018)

Aaron Sapp said:


> Basically just have my DAW open with VEPRO instruments loaded. Go to bed, get back to work the next day and more often than not VEPRO won't play and I have to basically force VEPRO and Cubase to close and reload the project. It seems to happen after a certain number of hours open (25 does sound about right).
> 
> Audio tracks in Cubase continue to play, so I can only surmise it's a VEPRO issue.


Yup. Exact same thing I used to have. Try to close your daw every time you leave for several hours. Let see if it still crash . 

I did report the issue to Steinberg and Vienna few years ago (as I have the issue since Cubase 7/vep 5) and the answer was basically to reboot my machine everyday so I can start fresh, which is a best practice anyway.... Not the kind of answer I was expecting but heh..


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## NYC Composer (Dec 12, 2018)

If I leave Cubase on and VEP connected (sometimes for days), Cubase gives me the spinning beach ball. HOWEVER, if I wait long enough (sometimes 20 minutes!) the beachball stops and everything is active again.

Test your patience and see.


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## Grizzlymv (Dec 12, 2018)

NYC Composer said:


> If I leave Cubase on and VEP connected (sometimes for days), Cubase gives me the spinning beach ball. HOWEVER, if I wait long enough (sometimes 20 minutes!) the beachball stops and everything is active again.
> 
> Test your patience and see.


Interresting. Never had such succes. Once the spinning wheel is on, it's on for good over here.


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## chillbot (Dec 12, 2018)

NYC Composer said:


> Test your patience and see.


My patience is going on like 10 years now.


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## NYC Composer (Dec 12, 2018)

If you haven’t healed them by now, you should discharge them to the care of another.


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## NYC Composer (Dec 12, 2018)

Grizzlymv said:


> Interresting. Never had such succes. Once the spinning wheel is on, it's on for good over here.


Have you REALLY waited 15 or 20 minutes before growling, cursing and quitting?

Edit-if you’re on Mac, check “force quit” to see if Cubase is “not responding.” 
If that’s the case, you’re done. The surprising thing to me is that it WASN’T “not responding” one day, so I waited, and sonofagun, it popped back.


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## Kent (Sep 13, 2020)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Did anybody feel like they got closer to an explanation with this issue?
> @reddognoyz ? @synthetic ?
> I also get it on a new machine from VisionDaw.
> ~25 hours after loading the metaframe, VEP becomes mostly unresponsive (engine at 0%, no audio, but can click around inside), CPU kicks into overdrive, need to force quit from task manager.
> ...


Apologies for the necro, but just wanted to point out that at 48k a 32-bit unsigned “samples counter” would run out in about 24:51:19, which totally fits the behavior here. Did you ever get it fixed/figured out?


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## NYC Composer (Sep 13, 2020)

My VEP6/Cubase 10.5 template MIGHT not exactly crash after 24 hrs....until I try to export a mix. Then it does.

Back in C6/VEP4, it didn’t. Who knows.


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