# Getting a Grip on Sords.



## stevenson-again (Mar 6, 2010)

i have really struggled to be happy with sordinos in my mock-ups, even though i love the effect. the best sounding sords are the symphobia ones but they are too indefinite and sludgy to make expressive lines with and i ultimately feel frustrated. i have not been overwhelmed by the LASS sords either (sorry andrew) at least i couldn't make them have that smooth and clear voice that the normal legatos have. the best i have are the old miro for softer dynamics and the siedlecek for louder dynamics and i have blended them successfully in the past, but that is just for the violins.

then SvK popped up and suggested blending sords with legato patches, and that got me thinking; HS is actually just using filters to emulate a muted string rather than actually physically muting them. what if i were to try doing something similar with the divisi legato patches in LASS and blending them with divisi sordino patches? by using the divisi sections, it makes the sound more direct and clearer, and the legato patches give life to the note joins.

so here is a go at trying out SvKs idea using LASS and i think it is pretty successful, although i am tempted to try blending in some first chair as well. the 1st Violins are my siedlecek/miroslav blend, the rest are using SvKs trick blending LASS A section sords, with C section legato, the C section having quite a bit of the hi mids rolled off and the very top boosted. whaddaya think?

http://idisk.mac.com/rohan.stevenson/Public/webdemos/DisownedMe.mp3 (Disowned Me)

i am slightly concerned that based on my posts in this section that people may feel i mince around all day in soft focus in tight pink leather pants scattering flowers and pot pourri around me. to try and dispel that notion here is an offering that is a little bit more full chested:


http://idisk.mac.com/rohan.stevenson/Public/webdemos/notanymore.mp3 (Not Anymore)

and another remix that is more full chested still. Bearing in mind that these are all from an Edwardian Drama, i can't be expected to go too much further over the top than i have already. i am afraid the 90 piece choir was asked to stay home for this gig.

http://idisk.mac.com/rohan.stevenson/Public/webdemos/TimetoBlowWhistle.mp3 (Whistleblowing)


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## hbuus (Mar 6, 2010)

Hey man,

Just wanted to tell you that I have enjoyed listening to the three tracks just now.
You're good at making atmospheric music.
I like the electronic stuff that is going on in the background most of the time.
It's varied and never sounds repetitive to me.
What's more, I especially like the way you build up to climaxes in your songs, ranging from small climaxes to really huge ones as for example at the very end of one of the songs. It sounds really, really nice.
If I should point at something, it is that I find a few of the FX is clipping and sounding bad that way.
You know which ones I mean?
Bassdrum a few places for one; I think there is one more sound in there somewhere.

Anyway, I know you're asking for comments about the strings, but still, I thought you would be happy to know that I, for one, have really enjoyed listening to these three pieces of yours. Thanks for posting.

Best,
Henrik


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## Rob (Mar 6, 2010)

very nice, "Not anymore" my fav


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## ChrisAxia (Mar 6, 2010)

Excellent work (as expected!) Rohan. I think the layering trick is a very good idea, and I regularly do slow cross-fades between 'normal' and 'sordino' patches in cues as well. It's also funny how sordinos vary in sound from different libraries. Sometimes, the Symphobia patch is just right, other times I prefer the QLSO stuff. A bit like pianos I guess. You can never have too many!

~Chris


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## AR (Mar 6, 2010)

Well,

as you mentioned...the Symphobias are quite the best. I fixed the legato problem by loading everytime a new Sordino patch for every note. Then I give every patch their own channel output and work with channel fade in/outs. 

Since the sordino patches have a little delayed starting point, I fade a little later in. 

A good tip: If you use this approach and you have slight faster sord. lines in between a melody, try to find the point where that note/sample ends and put it right there (where your "normal" melody line note ends). Then of course the Symphobia sample starts 2sec. earlier, so you have to mute it as long as you don't need it. As soon as its needed, fade in. Sometimes you have to fade-in few msec. earlier.

The goal in this technique is to achieve a natural "Ausklang", which gives your music depth and realism. 

-> Just a note for every Legato patch: When a player fiddles a line from "e" over "d"
to "c", you hear clearly note for note, right? But the "e" and "d" still ringing in the hall, while he's already playing the "c".
A good reverb can't cure that (even some geeks here believe that), but thats the difference between musician and computer. Its all about the resonance, the Ausklang. This gets lost with Legato patches which kill every note before as soon as a new one's triggered. A reverb can give a instrument only one choice of Ausklang. In real-life there are endless possibilities. For example: The next time the violinist plays e-d-c, only the e resonates, cause he barely even played the "d". 

I generally use this approach for Symphobia. I achieved way better mock-ups then using LASS legatos.
The main LASS problem I didn't get around (yet!?) is the annoying dynamic in LASS, which is in one way good, but on the other hand total pain in the ass. If I create a slow legato line, I find myself working always with expression-control against this 'more vibrato'/'expressiv'/'cresc.'/whatever.

Lot of information and not easy and reasonable to understand. But that's how all the great MIDI-composers like Hans Zimmer, Jeff Rona, Klaus Badelt and (I'm sure) also Thomas J Bergersen, T. Folmann work. 

Greetz
AR


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## stevenson-again (Mar 6, 2010)

> If I should point at something, it is that I find a few of the FX is clipping and sounding bad that way.
> You know which ones I mean?



actually no i don't but thanks for spotting it up - can you tell me exactly where so i can check it out and fix?



> Since the sordino patches have a little delayed starting point, I fade a little later in.



yes, if i understand you correctly, this is how i have done it in the past as well. but still just not really very happy with thickness of the sound. it's too heavy. what i love about LASS - just love - is the clarity it's allowing me to achieve. now, i can't bear too heavy thick paddy sounds. if i get some time later i will post the original of the cue. it's nice, it's fine, but i want that smaller, chambery, lighter, cleaner sound.



> I fixed the legato problem by loading everytime a new Sordino patch for every note. Then I give every patch their own channel output and work with channel fade in/outs.



i am not sure i have understood you here. you loaded an individual patch for EVERY note? jesus - that sounds like a lot of work. could you post an example of how you have done this?


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## AR (Mar 6, 2010)

Yes, I load always a new patch. That looks very huge, since I load like 12-15 sordino patches. BUt they're identical. So, no that much RAM usage (more for a new Kontakt instance I need then).

I also use it for the Str. Chord patches. Works the same way.

If you want a more chamberish sound, you won't get around LASS. But you can try it the same way I did with Symphobia cause there are no sordino leg_ patches. Then put a little Symphobia underneath and maybe it sounds nice.

I recently did a wonderful piece with sordino patches, but don't wanna show it, since the movie is not out yet. But I was surprised when I heard it on the dubbing stage. It sounds like 5 times better than normal legato patches. And you can mix it very quite and still... its there... beautiful stringend sound.

Greets
AR


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 6, 2010)

The general music is cool and the sound is excellent.

I don't know if it's because I have a bad cold these days, but it doesn't sound like muted strings to me, and I'm tempted to say, not at all, the muted color isn't there. There are a few elements missing in the muted lib. It's a weak area for all the sample companies, I would avoid using as upfront as that, but I understand it's an exercise. Also when the strings get louder they get a bit too choppy for my taste, not natural. Everything else sounds great, even the strings, just not as muted strings.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Mar 6, 2010)

Disowned Me. Now where have I heard that before? (the melody)

And imo you can't really emulate sorindo.


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## stevenson-again (Mar 6, 2010)

it's based on the melody, at least the same thematic material as the tune i posted a couple of weeks back.

as far as emulating sordino, that's what HS are planning to do. not saying your wrong, but it'll be interesting to see if they can pull it off.

@guy:

you might be right, but this is the closest i have managed to get with what i have. these are actually muted string samples and even then i have tried to remove some of the upper mids. where did you find it choppy and unnatural? that way i can have a go at tweaking it to get it righter.


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 6, 2010)

Ok, here it is:

2 min into whistle blowing the melody violin notes, I find them a bit too tight, too clean during the changes. And a bit at the end of Not Anymore. 

But it was less apparent on the 2nd and 3rd listening, so it's probably in the line of nit picking 

Awesome work!


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## mjc (Mar 6, 2010)

hbuus @ Sat Mar 06 said:


> Hey man,
> 
> Just wanted to tell you that I have enjoyed listening to the three tracks just now.
> You're good at making atmospheric music.
> ...



+1

Yeh mate...I seriously dig your stuff. I've thoroughly enjoyed everything I've heard of yours


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Mar 6, 2010)

One thing I've noticed about sorindo's is they record really odd. If you've heard sordino's live with your own ears, there seems to be a much softer difference than when they are recorded. Even with the most expensive mics.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 6, 2010)

Those high strings that fade in and out at the beginning sound good and indeed muted. Every thing after that though sounded like regular strings. (Not sure if the entire piece is supposed to be muted strings though.)


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## stevenson-again (Mar 7, 2010)

ahh - sorry for the confusion guys. only the 1st cue 'disowned me' is muted strings. the others are indeed normal strings. i only posted the other cues to balance out all tiptoeing delicately through flowers stuff i have previously posted.

i am basically remixing some choice cues from a series i did last year to prepare it for online album distribution. what i wanted to do here is get some feedback and share experiences on how to deal with muted strings, which i am sure everyone would agree has not exactly been nailed by any library i know of. i felt that with 'disowned me' i might be on to something with the idea of blending the legato patches with the muted patches. undoutedly it could be improved and any thoughts on how to do that would be very welcome.

as i say the other 2 cues are simply to shake off the slightly camp aftershave.


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 8, 2010)

stevenson-again @ Sun Mar 07 said:


> ahh - sorry for the confusion guys. only the 1st cue 'disowned me' is muted strings. the others are indeed normal strings.



Ok, that explains it.


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## samworth4 (Mar 8, 2010)

Very good! Despite your concern over being a ninny, I actually liked the "disowned me" piece the best, it seems to be the best appropriated to the sordino patches. I enjoy the use of atmosphere in all three pieces. Keep up the good work!


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