# Rests input in Dorico - test



## Rob (Nov 16, 2022)

I'd like to gain some proficiency in Dorico, in the event work could come in that format, and also to find if preparing scores can be more efficient than in Finale or Sibelius. My first stumbling block is rests input... is there any Dorico user that would be so kind to try the example I'm attaching and tell me exactly what and how many keystrokes are needed to write the bar in the example? In the picture I have written the steps Finale requires in order to do it, 18 "moves" in all. The "n" stands for a note pressed on the midi keyboard, numbers are note durations pressed on the numeric keypad. I would be grateful for any help, thank you


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## Daniel S. (Nov 16, 2022)

In general you don't input rests in Dorico: simply hit Space to advance the caret, and after you put the next note in, wherever it may go, Dorico will create the necessary rests to make the gap between the current note position and the previous note position, or the start of the bar, make sense.


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## Rob (Nov 16, 2022)

thank you Daniel for the quick reply, still I'd like to have a detailed list of keystrokes needed to input my example... because I don't understand how to make the caret advance one 16th of a sextuplet.


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## Daniel S. (Nov 16, 2022)

You don't need to advance it specifically by a 16th of a sextuplet: once you're "in" a tuplet, if the chosen note value in the Notes panel is 16th, *Space* will advance by a 16th in the context of the tuplet, exactly as you would expect.


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## Rob (Nov 16, 2022)

Daniel S. said:


> You don't need to advance it specifically by a 16th of a sextuplet: once you're "in" a tuplet, if the chosen note value in the Notes panel is 16th, *Space* will advance by a 16th in the context of the tuplet, exactly as you would expect.


if I understand it, the actual keystrokes would be "ò, 6, :, 4" to be in the sextuplet mode, then "space, n+3, n+3, n+3, n+3, n+3" - "ò, 6, :, 4, n+3, n+3, space, n+3, n+3, n+3" - now how do I set the caret to 16th notes in order to have it move with the space bar by one 16th? (I'm sorry for my lack of understanding, but you seem to be very patient)


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 16, 2022)

Rob said:


> if I understand it, the actual keystrokes would be "ò, 6, :, 4" to be in the sextuplet mode, then "space, n+3, n+3, n+3, n+3, n+3" - "ò, 6, :, 4, n+3, n+3, space, n+3, n+3, n+3" - now how do I set the caret to 16th notes in order to have it move with the space bar by one 16th? (I'm sorry for my lack of understanding, but you seem to be very patient)


Choose the 16th note on the rhythmic grid in the left lower corner


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## Rob (Nov 16, 2022)

thanks Marcus, so for my example:
"ò, 6, :, 4, space, n+3, n+3, n+3, n+3, n+3" - "ò, 6, :, 4, n+3, n+3, space, n+3, n+3, n+3" - "select 16th, space, n+4., n+4., select 16th, space"
It's 26 keystrokes... when you have to input hundreds of pages of orchestral scores that's too much, speed is vital. Is there maybe some shortcuts to be used that you're aware of?


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## Rob (Nov 16, 2022)

it seems to me that the choice of considering rests as simply the gap between notes, while logical in a way, is a problem for fast typing music, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 16, 2022)

As a Dorico newbie, this was good practice. I came up with this, 27 "actions":

; + 6:4 + enter
space
4
-
b
a
-
ctrl+alt+d
e
0
shift+alt+b
; + 6:4 + enter
-
b
e
space
shift+ctrl+a
-
a
f
space
5
.
=
ctrl+alt+f
0
f

I've been looking for a way to keep an accidental selected until deselected, that would save you some keystrokes in this case. Haven't found it as of yet.


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## Daniel S. (Nov 16, 2022)

It's a lot fewer than 26 keystrokes.

Shift+N, 4, ; 6 Return, Space, 7 notes on your MIDI keyboard (on the sixth one, Dorico will automatically create another tuplet of the same unit and ratio as the ongoing one), Space, : (to stop Dorico creating *another* tuplet when this one is completed), 3 notes on your MIDI keyboard, Space (to skip over the 16th rest position), 5 ., 2 notes on your MIDI keyboard.

I don't know how you want to count "Shift+N" or ";" (which on an English keyboard at least is actually Shift+: ), but it's a lot fewer than 26 keys on your computer keyboard.


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## benwiggy (Nov 16, 2022)

Your Finale demonstration seems to use Speedy Entry, where you're specifying the pitch and then pressing the duration after each pitch.

Dorico can do this, but the default is like SimpleEntry, with duration before pitch. You would only have to press the 16th duration button once, at the beginning, until your F# in the 3rd beat.

So: set the duration; create the tuplet; press space for rests, play the notes. Then stop the tuplet for beat 3.


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## Rob (Nov 16, 2022)

Daniel S. said:


> It's a lot fewer than 26 keystrokes.
> 
> Shift+N, 4, ; 6 Return, Space, 7 notes on your MIDI keyboard (on the sixth one, Dorico will automatically create another tuplet of the same unit and ratio as the ongoing one), Space, : (to stop Dorico creating *another* tuplet when this one is completed), 3 notes on your MIDI keyboard, Space (to skip over the 16th rest position), 5 ., 2 notes on your MIDI keyboard.
> 
> I don't know how you want to count "Shift+N" or ";" (which on an English keyboard at least is actually Shift+: ), but it's a lot fewer than 26 keys on your computer keyboard.


nice that the program remembers the tuplet... it's 24 "moves" anyway, you left out the final rest, where I have to reset the caret to 16ths and press space... if I don't, space advances by a dotted eight


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## Daniel S. (Nov 16, 2022)

That rest will be created as soon as you input the final note, so you don't need to do anything at that point. If, of course, you want to move the caret to the start of the next bar, another option is to use Ctrl+right arrow (Command on Mac), which moves the caret to the start of the next bar.


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## Rob (Nov 16, 2022)

benwiggy said:


> Your Finale demonstration seems to use Speedy Entry, where you're specifying the pitch and then pressing the duration after each pitch.
> 
> Dorico can do this, but the default is like SimpleEntry, with duration before pitch. You would only have to press the 16th duration button once, at the beginning, until your F# in the 3rd beat.
> 
> So: set the duration; create the tuplet; press space for rests, play the notes. Then stop the tuplet for beat 3.


yes, that's something I can't do (duration and then pitch). There are very good reasons for that


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## Rob (Nov 16, 2022)

Daniel S. said:


> That rest will be created as soon as you input the final note, so you don't need to do anything at that point. If, of course, you want to move the caret to the start of the next bar, another option is to use Ctrl+right arrow (Command on Mac), which moves the caret to the start of the next bar.


that brings it to 23, still 5 more than the alternatives... but you taught me a couple useful things


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## Daniel S. (Nov 16, 2022)

The goal of Dorico's input method is not to eliminate every last possible key stroke, but rather to provide a logical system that is easy to learn. Once you have something under your fingers, you're not sitting there counting the keystrokes (I have no idea how many keystrokes it is taking me to write this message for example, and nor do I know exactly how many notes I'm playing when I'm sitting at the piano). What's more important than the absolute number of keystrokes, at least to us when we are designing out input methods, is whether the methods make sense, are logical, easily memorable, and consistent.


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## Rob (Nov 16, 2022)

Daniel S. said:


> The goal of Dorico's input method is not to eliminate every last possible key stroke, but rather to provide a logical system that is easy to learn. Once you have something under your fingers, you're not sitting there counting the keystrokes (I have no idea how many keystrokes it is taking me to write this message for example, and nor do I know exactly how many notes I'm playing when I'm sitting at the piano). What's more important than the absolute number of keystrokes, at least to us when we are designing out input methods, is whether the methods make sense, are logical, easily memorable, and consistent.


Thank you Daniel, understood, counting keystrokes was the only way I found to evaluate the inputting speed... my position when copying music is: eyes on the manuscript (or composer's copy anyway), left on the midi keyboard, right on the keypad. Don't have to look at the pc keyboard while typing, so I have to take that into account too. If my right hand has to leave the keypad or the left to be taken from the piano I waste time. Mine is a very specific requirement though, I must admit, not your average user's


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## Daniel S. (Nov 16, 2022)

You can certainly tweak many of Dorico's default keyboard shortcuts if you want to, so you can bend the software towards your specific preferences to whatever extent you find it necessary.


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## benwiggy (Nov 16, 2022)

In my own experience, Dorico is much faster overall to get the notation 'in' than Finale; and once the notation is in, there's less to do in terms of manual twiddling about to get a decent finished score. 

Take slurs, for example: pressing S is significantly faster than the ludicrous "triple-click and drag". 
Or adding one fermata to one staff and getting it on all staves at the same beat position, (without having to convert empty measures into 'real' whole rests...).

Whatever inefficiencies there may be in one particular function, they are more than mitigated by the speed of the overall process.


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## Rob (Nov 16, 2022)

benwiggy said:


> In my own experience, Dorico is much faster overall to get the notation 'in' than Finale; and once the notation is in, there's less to do in terms of manual twiddling about to get a decent finished score.
> 
> Take slurs, for example: pressing S is significantly faster than the ludicrous "triple-click and drag".
> Or adding one fermata to one staff and getting it on all staves at the same beat position, (without having to convert empty measures into 'real' whole rests...).
> ...


I think you're right, only obstacle being familiarizing with a new environment while busy working


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## Bollen (Nov 16, 2022)

Lovely Rob, you need to invest on a Stream Deck or cheaper alternative! Then you bring down the kesystrokes* to 19!!! Just tried it myself...

*By keystroke I mean all presses in total of all keys.


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## Rob (Nov 16, 2022)

Bollen said:


> Lovely Rob, you need to invest on a Stream Deck or cheaper alternative! Then you bring down the kesystrokes* to 19!!! Just tried it myself...
> 
> *By keystroke I mean all presses in total of all keys.


what's a stream deck, Bollen?


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## liquidlino (Nov 16, 2022)

Rob said:


> what's a stream deck, Bollen?


someones mind is about to get blown.











Notation Express XL Stream Deck Profile for Dorico - Notation Central


Notation Express XL is the fastest way to work in Dorico Pro. It's a custom-designed profile for the Stream Deck XL console that makes powerful Dorico features easy and fun to use.




www.notationcentral.com


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## Bollen (Nov 16, 2022)

Rob said:


> what's a stream deck, Bollen?


What @liquidlino said... But there are cheaper alternatives like:



Or this one is dead cheap:


The point is to have a "hardware" with buttons you can feel! That way your hand knows where things are and you don't have to look...


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## ed buller (Nov 16, 2022)

Rob said:


> what's a stream deck, Bollen?


A little Box of heaven with flashing lights

e


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## ennbr (Nov 16, 2022)

Stream Decks are fantastic when used with Dorico as the video showed and you can get the 15 button first generation on Amazon for as low as $89 when on sale or while they last the second gen is still around $149 still a good price for what it does


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