# 8dio denies my purchase! (RESOLVED)



## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

The day before yesterday I bought their product "Agitato Sordino Strings"

after half hour , some one called "Sincerely Lee" tell me that I need to upload the copy of my passport or ID card

I was not at home that time ,so I told him I will when I get home.


You know what happen? When I get home I just upload my copy of ID card(with photo on it), front and back both

send to that email they contact me with

then Nothing happen ,no reply ,not even an email tell me about progress

Finally today that "Sincerely Lee" tell me I cant buy any 8dio product ,they will refund me

And The most ridiculous is

"*I had bought three products before ,with the same account* !(that record still in my acoount ) , and of course those products are never leaked to piracy !

I cant figure out why you can sold me those sample at that time ,but now you cant







*ANYONE who want to buy 8Dio product, If you live in Asia ,you probably need to offer you copy of Passport with English info on it!!*


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## John Busby (Feb 17, 2017)

sounds like you may have the racial problem

there's a good chance, like a really really good chance 8dio will never see this post

but thanks for sharing


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## Tatu (Feb 17, 2017)




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## Andrew_m (Feb 17, 2017)

This is not an act of racism...
You've potentially been scammed.
From someone who wasn't 8dio


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## John Busby (Feb 17, 2017)

heisenberg said:


> I think you have been caught with a phishing scam and the people who sent you the email are not from 8Dio.


this is most likely what happened and now someone has your ID and information too


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## ghostnote (Feb 17, 2017)

Why did you send your ID to 8Dio? They have absolutely no right to ask for it.


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## EvilDragon (Feb 17, 2017)

Hmmm I wouldn't be so sure to dismiss this as a phishing scam so easily.


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## feck (Feb 17, 2017)

Just, whatever you do, don't send a money order to any Nigerian princes.


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## d.healey (Feb 17, 2017)

I'm sure someone else posted ages ago about being asked for ID - also if this was a phishing scam how did they know he'd just made a purchase? and why hasn't he got his product from 8DIO that he paid for?


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## Tatu (Feb 17, 2017)

This actually seems like they asked - via email? - to provide those ID pics. They used to ask those back in the tonehammer days and I assume my info went to 8dio when they separated to soundiron and 8dio. Do they still ask those from customers during first purchase?

Whatever the reason, I think racism has nothing to do with it.


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> This is not an act of racism...
> You've been scammed.
> From someone who wasn't 8dio


I dont think I have been scammed
Cuz I contact them in their own support web page too

and that "Serial number: Your serial code is currently being processed"
stuck there for three day !
dont tell me whole 8dio website got hack now 

see this as prove


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## Andrew_m (Feb 17, 2017)

Tatu said:


> This actually seems like they asked - via email? - to provide those ID pics. They used to ask those back in the tonehammer days and I assume my info went to 8dio when they separated to soundiron and 8dio. Do they still ask those from customers during first purchase?
> 
> Whatever the reason, I think racism has nothing to do with it.


It could be a lack of correlation between buyer information and their ID. Your purchase might've become stuck due to some statement problems.


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

Tatu said:


> This actually seems like they asked - via email? - to provide those ID pics. They used to ask those back in the tonehammer days and I assume my info went to 8dio when they separated to soundiron and 8dio. Do they still ask those from customers during first purchase?
> 
> Whatever the reason, I think racism has nothing to do with it.


funny thing is THIS IS NOT MY first purchase !!


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## Tatu (Feb 17, 2017)

Yeah that's pretty odd. Ask them for further details (be polite) and if nothing, then tell them to pull the agitato license as well and refund that.


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 17, 2017)

Sincerely Lee?

Shirley you can't be serious.


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## markpfx (Feb 17, 2017)

I bought from 8dio last week. Payed with Paypal and immediately received a receipt with download links.


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

Tatu said:


> Yeah that's pretty odd. Ask them for further details (be polite) and if nothing, then tell them to pull the agitato license as well and refund that.


But I do need those sample to finish my work 

It really make me feel bad that You cant buy a tool just bcuz you are not Europeans or Americans.

God! Why I must accept refund,I didnt do anything wrong.


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## Andrew_m (Feb 17, 2017)

Did you pay with a card or paypal?


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## jononotbono (Feb 17, 2017)

I had to scan my Photo Driving License to apply for an Edu account with 8Dio (of which I haven't used yet as sale prices have been better financially). It took over two weeks for them to get back to me. I thought it was fair enough if they are selling their products at a discounted rate to students. Well, I didn't have a problem scanning my ID. It's not like 8Dio are some tiny illegal Developer and going to run off with my details! And racist? Really? I just can't believe that at all.


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> Did you pay with a card or paypal?


yes ,I pay with my card but not payapl .
Assuming some one hack into the process ,got my info,ok
But how you explain 8dio didnt give me download link ?
It's been three days since I finish my payment


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## JonSolo (Feb 17, 2017)

When I first purchased with 8DIO they DID come back and ask me for verification of who I was for the purpose of watermarking. The message came from [email protected] and asked me to provide a website name with which I was connected or passport/drivers license or phone number. I gave them what I was comfortable in sharing. It took two days but then I got my product.

This has nothing to do with race. But there could be country restrictions or limitations, though I have not heard of any against Taiwan.

On the other hand you threw white people and the whole country of China (labeling them as pirates) under the bus. That IS racist.


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## Andrew_m (Feb 17, 2017)

jrockman said:


> yes ,I pay with my card but not payapl .
> Assuming some one hack into the process ,got my info,ok
> But how you explain 8dio didnt give me download link ?
> It's been three days since I finish my payment


Okay. This is not a racist stereotyping issue, or a scam. But 8dio wanted to compare and verify your ID to your purchase info - so they asked for some confirmation on your part. This might be the only way to verify some info based on your location and purchasing method. 

Honestly, resulting straight to racism on your part is just wrong and ignorant.


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> When I first purchased with 8DIO they DID come back and ask me for verification of who I was for the purpose of watermarking. The message came from [email protected] and asked me to provide a website name with which I was connected or passport/drivers license or phone number. I gave them what I was comfortable in sharing. It took two days but then I got my product.
> 
> This has nothing to do with race. But there could be country restrictions or limitations, though I have not heard of any against Taiwan.
> 
> On the other hand you threw white people and the whole country of China (labeling them as pirates) under the bus. That IS racist.



explain me If there is country restrictions or limitations ,How can I buy others (3 product) before? with the same account ,the same card !


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## erica-grace (Feb 17, 2017)

Simon Ravn said:


> Shirley you can't be serious.



I am serious. And don't call me Shirley.


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## erica-grace (Feb 17, 2017)

The OP is out of hand. A good ex of what brings the internet down.

To say you are not happy with 8Dio's policies is one thing. To call them racist is absurd, childish, and repugnant.

This is not a phishing scam, and the site has not been hacked. They have done this before - they are trying to ensure that their products go to legit users. 

Seeing as tho you have purchased from them before, they have obviously dropped the ball here. But that does not excuse your deplorable behavior, and you should really consider apologizing for your needlessly insulting rant.


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## JonSolo (Feb 17, 2017)

I stated that I have not heard of any restrictions. The law changes daily in some places. But neither do I have anything to explain.

But there IS some explanation for it. I am sure you will not find answers on this forum. 8DIO is likely the only ones who can assist you in this area.


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> Okay. This is not a racist stereotyping issue, or a scam. But 8dio wanted to compare and verify your ID to your purchase info - so they asked for some confirmation on your part.



YEA I can accept that ,so I upload my Copy of ID card
that problem is ,they dont have ability to analyze those data(all chinese word)
So the easy way is deny my order

Think about it ,will this happen on EU or US customer? Of course NOT

then think about it WHY?

Cuz Asian customer are few , we dont need to take care about their feeling

Just deny their order ,So easy !! no one will care right!


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> I stated that I have not heard of any restrictions. The law changes daily in some places. But neither do I have anything to explain.
> 
> But there IS some explanation for it. I am sure you will not find answers on this forum. 8DIO is likely the only ones who can assist you in this area.



Sorry Im not try to offense you 

Just... I know 8dio wont care a nobody 

I just here to tell others Dont try to buy their products ,If you dont have English ID card or live outside EU and US


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

erica-grace said:


> The OP is out of hand. A good ex of what brings the internet down.
> 
> To say you are not happy with 8Dio's policies is one thing. To call them racist is absurd, childish, and repugnant.
> 
> ...



oh I apologize now ,Sorry for that I should not try to order 8dio product

I unexpectedly thought I can buy any sample library like others in the world

I forgot I am a Asian ,Im truly sorry


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## tokatila (Feb 17, 2017)

I tried to buy once. They asked my ID. I politely refused. I took my business elsewhere. Easy.


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## Andrew_m (Feb 17, 2017)

jrockman said:


> YEA I can accept that ,so I upload my Copy of ID card
> that problem is ,they dont have ability to analyze those data(all chinese word)
> So the easy way is deny my order
> 
> ...


That's such a leap in your reasoning. 8dio HAS to have given out purchases to other chinese/Asian users before. When I lived in Taiwan, I knew people who had their products.
This is purely monetary. stop trying to start drama. This isn't some giant youtube-callout community - we don't result straight to drama and ridiculous claims.


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## NoamL (Feb 17, 2017)

Asking for a customer's ID before selling them a piece of software is ridiculous.


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> That's such a leap in your reasoning. 8dio HAS to have given out purchases to other chinese/Asian users before. When I lived in Taiwan, I knew people who had their products.
> This is purely monetary. stop trying to start drama. This isn't some giant youtube-callout community - we don't result straight to drama and ridiculous claims.


I had their product ,and I cant have it now with No reason! just "you cant buy our product"
No reason is the most offence part !

at least 8dio should mark "Asian Can't Buy this , dont try it"on their product web page


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## Andrew_m (Feb 17, 2017)

jrockman said:


> I had their product ,and I cant have it now with No reason! just "you cant buy our product"
> No reason is the most offence part !


I do think the idea of having to send over your ID is strange- but as others in this thread have stated, 8dio has done the same to them - so it's a common thing.


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## mac (Feb 17, 2017)

I've read the exact same thing from 8dio several times on several forums. It seems they just refuse to sell to customers from certain destinations. 

Save your money and spend it elsewhere would be my advice, plenty of other fish in the sea.


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## JonSolo (Feb 17, 2017)

NoamL said:


> Asking for a customer's ID before selling them a piece of software is ridiculous.



That is not really what they asked for. They want something to be able to add a watermark to connect a product to the individual buying it. It is their copy protection. Sadly we live in a world where this kind of thing is necessary.

To purchase a car in the US you MUST provide an ID. To purchase a plane ticket you must provide an ID. Heck, to rent a ladder, you MUST provide an ID.

This is nothing new and I find it absurd that there are so many naive complaints on forums. So many people are concerned about privacy. If you are here, trust me, someone knows more about you than you might even know yourself.


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> That is not really what they asked for. They want something to be able to add a watermark to connect a product to the individual buying it. It is their copy protection. Sadly we live in a world where this kind of thing is necessary.
> 
> To purchase a car in the US you MUST provide an ID. To purchase a plane ticket you must provide an ID. Heck, to rent a ladder, you MUST provide an ID.
> 
> This is nothing new and I find it absurd that there are so many naive complaints on forums. So many people are concerned about privacy. If you are here, trust me, someone knows more about you than you might even know yourself.



The whole problem is not I concerned about privacy and deny to show my ID

the problem is I give them my Real ID ,they deny my order with no reason
"you cant buy ,you just cant, because we dont want to waste time to check those chinese word meaning and verify it is real ID or not "


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## JonSolo (Feb 17, 2017)

jrockman said:


> The whole problem is not I concerned about privacy and deny to show my ID
> 
> the problem is I give them my Real ID ,they deny my order with no reason
> "you cant buy ,you just cant, because we dont want to waste time to check those chinese word meaning and verify it is real ID or not "



That was not directed at you that was toward the poster I quoted.

This will be my last comment on this but- is that what they really said? No, of course it is not. We live in an extremely diverse world and language is not the barrier it used to be, whether written or spoken. It is narrow minded to quantify reasons without asking them

Further, they are refunding your money. Like others have said here, take your business elsewhere and forget this happened. There are fantastic alternatives out there. I like them, I do. But I also like Spitfire and SoundIron and Native Instruments and Orchestral Tools and Heaviocity, etc. 8DIO is just one company.


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## LamaRose (Feb 17, 2017)

I'm with Jrock on this one, assuming it was in fact 8Dio who requested verification... WTF? If they don't want your money, then good on you, Jrock, because 8Dio _ain't all that, _and there are plenty of other developers who will be happy to accept your funds.


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

NoamL said:


> Asking for a customer's ID before selling them a piece of software is ridiculous.


yea 
The most terrible is they dont ask "Before"

they ask "After" you finish whole process of payment


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## ghostnote (Feb 17, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> This is nothing new and I find it absurd that there are so many naive complaints on forums. So many people are concerned about privacy.


Frankly I find your point naive. In many countries only authorities from the government can ask you for an ID. Providing the ID to verify the the details for a car may be OK, for a sample library too, but not by giving away a copy trough the internet.


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> That was not directed at you that was toward the poster I quoted.
> 
> This will be my last comment on this but- is that what they really said? No, of course it is not. We live in an extremely diverse world and language is not the barrier it used to be, whether written or spoken. It is narrow minded to quantify reasons without asking them
> 
> Further, they are refunding your money. Like others have said here, take your business elsewhere and forget this happened. There are fantastic alternatives out there. I like them, I do. But I also like Spitfire and SoundIron and Native Instruments and Orchestral Tools and Heaviocity, etc. 8DIO is just one company.



Ok But I do love their con sord string........
is so sad I cant find any alternatives ,it is the best one to my ear

so sad....

thank your reply anyway

my english is very poor ,so I apologize if I said anything offense ,this is for everyone is this thread too


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## Quasar (Feb 17, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> That is not really what they asked for. They want something to be able to add a watermark to connect a product to the individual buying it. It is their copy protection. Sadly we live in a world where this kind of thing is necessary.
> 
> To purchase a car in the US you MUST provide an ID. To purchase a plane ticket you must provide an ID. Heck, to rent a ladder, you MUST provide an ID.
> 
> This is nothing new and I find it absurd that there are so many naive complaints on forums. So many people are concerned about privacy. If you are here, trust me, someone knows more about you than you might even know yourself.



This is all exactly true. Internet privacy, like it or not, is an oxymoron. Fortunately though, I have friends who have ladders and if I ever need one I can simply borrow it "off the books", so I'm at least good in that area, except for the satellite cameras that will no doubt be watching me clean the gutters.

OP: Sorry for your troubles. I don't know the 8Dio developers, but have no reason to suppose that they are racist, and in the absence of any real evidence to the contrary cannot imagine that they are. I've bought stuff from them (albeit in the US) and have never had an issue, but have read enough accounts of people having problems to believe that they just don't quite have their customer service act together. 

The advice to take your business to another company is probably good advice, though if it were me I might still try to politely but firmly press them via email for an explanation and a resolution, AFTER getting my money back. I'd ask them for a thorough clarification as to what their policy is and why you were treated the way you were, but in a nice way that doesn't jump to conclusions. Good luck.


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## novaburst (Feb 17, 2017)

@jrockman sorry to hear you are having issues with purchasing from 8dio,

I don't think 8dio has any accounts in the Asian language and I think even if you are in Asia you will need to fill out your account in English, German, or French. I could be wrong on this.

some developers cover the Asian language like Cubase I think has a japan base.

if your account is in English or any language other than china you could understand the issue 8dio would be having when your ID is all in china, there will be no reference for them to match up so on their part it would be safer to stop any further sale.

let us just assume they are racist, I do not believe they are. But even if they was they are still going to take your money, every developer needs that and the colour of your skin will not prevent them from selling as much products as they can to any one that wants them. black, white, Asian, Brown, blue, yellow green, aliens, cat and dogs if need be. any one who has the cash gets there products.


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## MatFluor (Feb 17, 2017)

Don't forget that maybe legal issues could be there as well. E.g. Some countries cannot buy per PayPal (or citizens of certain countries) because of trade deals or banned lists.


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

novaburst said:


> @jrockman sorry to hear you are having issues with purchasing from 8dio,
> 
> I don't think 8dio has any accounts in the Asian language and I think even if you are in Asia you will need to fill out your account in English, German, or French. I could be wrong on this.
> 
> ...



that is the part make me angry

If the chinese name cant be reference for them ,is reasonable! then ask me to send a copy of passport which have chinese name in English on it ( just the same to my name on credit card)
It is totaly acceptable to me!!!
But they didnt do anything, just three day blank,then send an email "we cant sell it to you ,will refund" without any remedy!


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## Revenant (Feb 17, 2017)

Simon Ravn said:


> Sincerely Lee?
> 
> Shirley you can't be serious.



Sorry, but I couldn't resist:


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## Markus S (Feb 17, 2017)

As far as I am concerned there is no way I am sending my ID to a private firm I want to purchase from. I did provide a link to my website for them, though. Saying they are racist seems a bit over the top but they do seem a tad paranoid.

I'm unfamiliar with international laws, but in France it is indeed illegal to refuse to sell to an individual.

However it amazes me that some find it normal to provide such sensible information as a copy of a passport via email.


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## FriFlo (Feb 17, 2017)

I really have to step in as some people here seem to have totally lost it. Declining a customer due to his race or home country IS racist! That does not mean, 8dio is racist and they might have a different reasoning behind it, but the act of denying a customer service due to his nationality is racist and the fact, so many people here seem to defend 8dio for it or even attack the poster makes me doubt man kind even more than the current US president.
Further, I would never give my ID for buying a sample library and I have many 8dio libraries ...
Dude, I am glad you posted it, because contrary to other replys here, I do appreciate a forum like this to be used to make people aware of such dealings. Thank you for that and I hope there are other forum members left to support you ... those with brain and at least one ball left ...


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## Astronaut FX (Feb 17, 2017)

A lot of speculations and assumptions in this thread, very few facts, at least with regard to the OP's allegations.


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## Michael Antrum (Feb 17, 2017)

There's this little thing with credit cards called chargeback. As someone who runs their own business in a very niche market, I get a ridiculous number of emails from all over telling me that the sender is interested in my products - even they don't know what these products are. They always want to pay with a credit card. And if you try and put these transactions through, very often your card service provider will warn you that if there is a problem with the payment they will not be responsible for your losses.

(Effectively - they do not give you an authorisation code and on your own head be it if there is a problem - they just take the payment back out of your account). So you can either refuse the transaction, or try and minimise the risk by trying to verify as many of the details as possible.

From time to time I work in some off the beaten track countries, and one of these is Sierra Leone. I once needed to pay a mobile phone bill, and it ended up with every card I have being cancelled as they didn't like the IP address. Fortunately, at that time cards were not accepted in the country and I had US & local currency in cash, but when I got back to the U.K. it took a bit of sorting out.

Also you need to stop shouting racist even time things don't go your way, the term is thrown around so much these days that in many places it has lost it's true meaning. 

I'll bet if you offered to pay by bank transfer (which cannot be charged back) they wouldn't be asking for your ID details.


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## FriFlo (Feb 17, 2017)

For those, who still don't understand: say, there is a supermarket in a neighborhood and the criminal statistics of that area are implying, a Latino is 10% more likely to steal something (not saying, that is the case, it is just an example). Assume, the shop owner would deny Latinos service. Would you say it is ok, as the statistics give him another reason? Or would you say it is racist to act like it?


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## Aaron Sapp (Feb 17, 2017)

I don't know why 8Dio denied your purchase, but to publicly defame them with accusations of racism is exceedingly uncalled for, to say the least. I'm sure they have an evolving system of checks and balances they use to approve orders and they certainly have the right to reject orders where they see fit. I don't presume to know what their approval policies are, but it can be tricky selling software to countries where developers haven't a hope or a prayer to investigate a suspicious customer let alone pursue any legal remedies. Heck, some developers flat-out deny entire countries for this reason. I wouldn't take it personally.


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## erica-grace (Feb 17, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> Declining a customer due to his race or home country IS racist!



1st part - yes... 2nd part - no. 

Denying to sell to someone based on their skin color is racist - I think there is no question about that.

Denying to sell to someone based on the country in which they live because you do not like that that country nor the people who live/come from there, is also racist.

Denying to sell to someone based on the country in which they live - because that country is a known "hotspot" for IP theft - is not racist.

Racism isn't all about what you do - it's also about what your motives are.

As someone said earlier, there may be a bit of parnoia here, but there certainly is no racism.


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## Red (Feb 17, 2017)

LOL This post is too hilarious. This has to be a joke. Come on!!! You even have an asian accent in your words?


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## jononotbono (Feb 17, 2017)

jrockman said:


> "you cant buy ,you just cant, because we dont want to waste time to check those chinese word meaning and verify it is real ID or not "



Did 8Dio actually say this? You are using quotation marks. I just can't believe they would ever say something like this. It sounds completely made up.



FriFlo said:


> I really have to step in as some people here seem to have totally lost it. Declining a customer due to his race or home country IS racist!



Has the OP provided any proof they have refused sale because he's Asian? No. It's completely ridiculous and absurd to just accuse anyone of racism just because they haven't managed to buy something.

Picking up the phone and calling 8Dio might be an idea? How about sending another e-mail to find out what the problem is? Two pretty obvious solutions in my humble opinion. Something isn't adding up here. It's a Sample Library Dev that sells to composers around the World. Not the Ku Klux Klan haha!!!


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## FriFlo (Feb 17, 2017)

erica-grace said:


> 1st part - yes... 2nd part - no.
> 
> Denying to sell to someone based on their skin color is racist - I think there is no question about that.
> 
> ...


Nope! You can't punish a whole country by denying them service based on what some people there might do wrong. That is racist. It might not be intended as such, but be aware that people acting racist have always considered there act normal and justifiable. The fact someone might not feel racist does not mean he isn't acting in such a way. Look at my example I posted before. It does not matter, if it is about skin color or nationality! The behavior is still racist.


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## creativeforge (Feb 17, 2017)

jrockman said:


> I had their product ,and I cant have it now with No reason! just "you cant buy our product"
> No reason is the most offence part !
> 
> at least 8dio should mark "Asian Can't Buy this , dont try it"on their product web page



This here you mentioned in another post: ",they dont have ability to analyze those data(all chinese word)"

*So you sent them a full ID entirely in Chinese? I would write them and explain why. Don't assume they will have someone who speaks your language on staff (although it's possible). *I encourage you to contact them again and explain calmly what happened. Ask them if they could find someone to translate your ID to them.

And let's calm down on the "racist" label. It's totally inappropriate in this case. I understand you're upset, but try to be rational about it.

Good luck,

Andre


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## Red (Feb 17, 2017)

jrockman said:


> Cuz Asian customer are few , we dont need to take care about their feeling


What are you on?? Asians are the most populated race on the planet. 

The fact that countless other asians, including myself, had no problems with 8dio so far should tell you that 
the problem is with you.


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## creativeforge (Feb 17, 2017)

I suspect a transaction snafu, nothing bad. Easy to fix by contacting 8Dio. Let us know how you do, jrockman. 

Best,

Andre


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## erica-grace (Feb 17, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> You can't punish a whole country by denying them service based on what some people there might do wrong. That is racist.



That is not racist.


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## FriFlo (Feb 17, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> Has the OP provided any proof they have refused sale because he's Asian? No. It's completely ridiculous and absurd to just accuse anyone of racism just because they haven't managed to buy something.
> 
> Picking up the phone and calling 8Dio might be an idea? How about sending another e-mail to find out what the problem is? Two pretty obvious solutions in my humble opinion. Something isn't adding up here. It's a Sample Library Dev that sells to composers around the World. Not the Ku Klux Klan haha!!!


Of course, if this was just someone trying to be funny, all made up, everything written here would be meaningless, but that goes for every claim made in a forum ... I will have to assume the claim is right, as it sounds reasonable to me.
Regarding Ku Klux Klan: things don't have to be that dramatic, always! Racism is mostly not that kind of brutal thing. That is why it is so dangerous as many people regard it as "a harmless joke" or "totally justifiable", but it is not! You might have different motives for it, but it is still not ok too exclude someone because of nationality OR race.


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## FriFlo (Feb 17, 2017)

erica-grace said:


> That is not racist.


You won. It is not racist. It is discriminatory. Still bad ...


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

Red said:


> What are you on?? Asians are the most populated race on the planet.
> 
> The fact that countless other asians, including myself, had no problems with 8dio so far should tell you that
> the problem is with you.


lol you dont have problem with 8 dio that is fine

but How can you speak for countless other asians?!

so you think I am the only one Asian will have problem like this?

did u read my post ? I had bought their product before ,without any problem

just like you ! so what? doesnt mean anything

when someday it come to you,I hope someone will stand out and speak for you ,I hope...


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## robgb (Feb 17, 2017)

jrockman said:


> lol I had bought their product before ,without any problem


So that would suggest to me that 8dio is NOT racist. And I think the title of this post needs to be changed because that's a pretty serious charge. The kind that can ruin a company's reputation.


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## Astronaut FX (Feb 17, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> For those, who still don't understand: say, there is a supermarket in a neighborhood and the criminal statistics of that area are implying, a Latino is 10% more likely to steal something (not saying, that is the case, it is just an example). Assume, the shop owner would deny Latinos service. Would you say it is ok, as the statistics give him another reason? Or would you say it is racist to act like it?



You believe everything you hear that "sounds reasonable" without evidence? Seriously? Please do all you can to disqualify yourself from any juror pool. 

Again, how about we not jump so quickly to accept the OP's allegations at face value. We have zero proof that 8dio denied his purchase, and if they did, we have zero evidence as to their reasoning. We don't throw people suspected of being witches into the lake to see if they float anymore, how about we suspend judgment on 8dio until or unless we hear their side?


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

robgb said:


> So that would suggest to me that 8dio is NOT racist. And I think the title of this post needs to be changed because that's a pretty serious charge. The kind that can ruin a company's reputation.



thats why I post here!!
If they are not racist company,they will contact me and give me a reasonable explain why they deny my purchase after saw my ID copy ,without any reason even an excuse!
until we fix this problem I will apologize here and chang the title

If they dont care , then I dont care too !!I will let this post and title exist forever


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## robgb (Feb 17, 2017)

jrockman said:


> thats why I post here!!
> If they are not racist company,they will contact me and give me a reasonable explain
> until we fix this problem I will apologize here and chang the title
> 
> If they dont care , then I dont care too !!I will let this post and title exist forever


I don't think 8dio even comes to this forum anymore, so good luck with that. I'd suggest you try contacting them until you get a response.


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## jrockman (Feb 17, 2017)

robgb said:


> I don't think 8dio even comes to this forum anymore, so good luck with that. I'd suggest you try contacting them until you get a response.


thanks man
I do contact them , alot of times
but they are like ,reply per 2 day ,speak like robot and perfunctory
but I still trying


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Feb 17, 2017)

I wonder if this scumbag Sincerely Lee is in any way related to Regards Tom, who is also a world class jerk.


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## procreative (Feb 17, 2017)

I can see this from both sides. I used to run an ecommerce site, we were plagued with bogus fraud purchases from one particular country, Indonesia. So much so that the card processor blocked this country.

However they would still get through, because they would put their address, but change the country to one that would go through. This was the early days of online payment and so no CVS checks were made to match the address to the card address.

The first few times we sent out product, then got a chargeback for the payment, then got charged commission on the transaction. A triple whammy.

We got wise to them after a while so didnt send out product. But we still got stiffed on the transaction charges each time. We managed to avoid the chargebacks by getting them refunded though.

Point is certain countries are notorious fraud hotspots, so the card companies insist on extra checks.

But saying that, personally I would not send ID scans by email to anyone. What if their email gets hacked?

Maybe a money transfer would resolve it.


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## kavinsky (Feb 17, 2017)

I can confirm that they are very picky about their customers, which is a very strange behaviour for any business.

They do not sell their products to russians(its true), and the "reasoning" behind it is this:
"We do not block based on geography. It's not simple. We do not distribute to countries where we do not have rights or recourse against copyright infringement. -Tawnia"

So you can relax, its not racism, its something much worse haha.
You have to be really persuasive to force them to sell their products to you.

On one hand, I can understand Troels' bad case of paranoia, they put a lot of work in the products and I'm sure its a nightmare to see your stuff leaked somewhere.
But these policies seem really odd to me.

Thats the world we live in, I guess


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## davidgary73 (Feb 17, 2017)

Simple..if they refuse to sell, just don't buy from them. You're not missing anything at all.

Give your money to those who are willing to sell their products to you. You can live without 8Dio and there are tons of great libs from other developers.


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## creativeforge (Feb 17, 2017)

jrockman said:


> The day before yesterday I bought their product "Agitato Sordino Strings"
> 
> after half hour , some one called "Sincerely Lee" tell me that I need to upload the copy of my passport or ID card
> 
> ...



Again, please contact 8dio, and provide them with an ID they can read. You are creating a scene because you are upset. That's understandable, but please contact 8dio and make sure you get to talk to someone about your situation, explaining everything you posted here to justify your point.

All the best,

Andre


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## Quasar (Feb 17, 2017)

kavinsky said:


> I can confirm that they are very picky about their customers, which is a very strange behaviour for any business.
> 
> They do not sell their products to russians(its true), and the "reasoning" behind it is this:
> "We do not block based on geography. It's not simple. We do not distribute to countries where we do not have rights or recourse against copyright infringement. -Tawnia"
> ...



Wow, sad... Not quite a "global village" just yet. Does 8Dio have a clear, publicly-stated sales policy about this? If not, they should. And it would be classy of them to respond here, too, though I can't imagine they will...

And will their Russian ban extend to the USA, now that it has become a Putin puppet state?


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 17, 2017)

A few years ago, we noticed a pattern with one of our customers. He would buy something, and the next day the product would end up on pirate sites. We corroborated this with lots of other developers. This guy was the common thread. To put the nail in the coffin, one dev released an "update" - that was sent ONLY to this customer, and nobody else - and sure enough, the update ended up on all the pirate sites.

So, I personally hired a private investigator to track the guy down and guess what? He lived in Connecticut, USA. But he had no assets to his name and multiple liens against him from the IRS. We had no recourse against him - he had nothing. If we were going to go to court and sue, in the words of Rocky in Rocky V, he'd say "Sue me for what?"

The moral of the story... You can try to prevent piracy but it doesn't always come from countries like Russia. Sometimes the worst pirates are right here in the good ol' USA.


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## NYC Composer (Feb 17, 2017)

People love a good dust up.

I can't speak to the actuality of the OP's claim, but I'm so glad we live in a post- racial world as some have said. I'm going to tell that to the owner of the studio complex I rent a space from. He's a large black man who, unless he's wearing a business suit and smiling, has trouble getting a cab in liberal New York City. As someone who's less interested n black or white than he is about the green, he's philosophical about it and has moved to Uber, but still.


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## SoNowWhat? (Feb 17, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> A few years ago, we noticed a pattern with one of our customers. He would buy something, and the next day the product would end up on pirate sites. We corroborated this with lots of other developers. This guy was the common thread. To put the nail in the coffin, one dev released an "update" - that was sent ONLY to this customer, and nobody else - and sure enough, the update ended up on all the pirate sites.
> 
> So, I personally hired a private investigator to track the guy down and guess what? He lived in Connecticut, USA. But he had no assets to his name and multiple liens against him from the IRS. We had no recourse against him - he had nothing. If we were going to go to court and sue, in the words of Rocky in Rocky V, he'd say "Sue me for what?"
> 
> The moral of the story... You can try to prevent piracy but it doesn't always come from countries like Russia. Sometimes the worst pirates are right here in the good ol' USA.


Interesting, shocking and amusing all at the same time. I hope this means he's on some sort of black list now? If that's even possible??


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## constaneum (Feb 17, 2017)

I'm a Malaysian born Chinese....yup, i'm Asian. so What?? I'm still happily purchasing and using 8dio's products. I've just bought the Adagio Violin which is on 70% sale and i straight away got my download link within split seconds. Don't simply label a company being racist without any solid evidence. Give them an explanation chance....There's no way any company will be that racist from commercial perspective.


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## Mike Fox (Feb 17, 2017)

This is by far the strangest thread I've ever read on here.


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## afterlight82 (Feb 17, 2017)

Like it or not, they have the legal right to set their international sales policies and to sell you one thing, then to deny the sale on another if the merchant services flags it and it looks problematic. Provided they refunded you they have no obligations to you whatsoever.


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## afterlight82 (Feb 17, 2017)

And if you sent them an ID card that they can't actually read, how are they to know it is legit? It reminds me of kids in the UK using fake European drivers licenses to try and buy booze under age, such that some places would end up not selling to people with real European driver's licenses. All piracy combatting techniques involve some inconvenience to somebody. Don't want to put your DAW computer online? Well, that means you can't use certain pieces of software or have to jump through certain hoops to make other software work.

They get to set their watermarking and sales policies, provided they comply with applicable law; and if they determine they can't adequately do that in this transaction, they're perfectly entitled to say no, we can't fulfill this. These are tiny companies, relative to most software/digital content providers etc. and you have to realize that almost every one of them receives fraudulent orders with stolen cards/info most months...and that the torrent world is awash with their products (produced at huge expense) being distributed illegally.

How they try and combat that, and stop it happening, is their business. 

Edit: Though, from the looks of the KVR post referenced a bit below, they're sometimes incredibly obtuse about it....so....vote with your wallet...


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## Andrew_m (Feb 17, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> A few years ago, we noticed a pattern with one of our customers. He would buy something, and the next day the product would end up on pirate sites. We corroborated this with lots of other developers. This guy was the common thread. To put the nail in the coffin, one dev released an "update" - that was sent ONLY to this customer, and nobody else - and sure enough, the update ended up on all the pirate sites.
> 
> So, I personally hired a private investigator to track the guy down and guess what? He lived in Connecticut, USA. But he had no assets to his name and multiple liens against him from the IRS. We had no recourse against him - he had nothing. If we were going to go to court and sue, in the words of Rocky in Rocky V, he'd say "Sue me for what?"
> 
> The moral of the story... You can try to prevent piracy but it doesn't always come from countries like Russia. Sometimes the worst pirates are right here in the good ol' USA.


A fresh perspective on OP's 'situation'

Good post


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## StatKsn (Feb 17, 2017)

8Dio does seem picking customers based on country/IP etc and have a record of asking for ID or many strange things (never happened to me, but I have read multiple cases).

I would strongly advise against sending a copy of your passport and IDs over the internet, especially to people you don't know personally. If you get a refund, I would just cut correspondence with them. Do not waste your time trying to buy stuff from someone who does not want to sell to you.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6094917


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## creativeforge (Feb 18, 2017)

StatKsn said:


> 8Dio does seem picking customers based on country/IP etc and have a record of asking for ID or many strange things (never happened to me, but I have read multiple cases).
> 
> I would strongly advise against sending a copy of your passport and IDs over the internet, especially to people you don't know personally. If you get a refund, I would just cut correspondence with them. Do not waste your time trying to buy stuff from someone who does not want to sell to you.
> 
> http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6094917



Great advice here. And you may feel justified after reading the KVRAudio forum post mentioned above. It does seem to happen to others, to have the transaction "flagged."

Sorry for your troubles, jrockman, hopefully you will be able to resolve this?

Andre


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## jrockman (Feb 18, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> Great advice here. And you may feel justified after reading the KVRAudio forum post mentioned above. It does seem to happen to others, to have the transaction "flagged."
> 
> Sorry for your troubles, jrockman, hopefully you will be able to resolve this?
> 
> Andre



I try to contact them again ,I think maybe I can offer more proof to help them 

but another 20 hours passed since my last email 

still no reply !

I am not obsessive-compulsive disorder ,I just really need those con sord strings to finish my work .

some post said I should contact 8dio first,only they can resolve this problem

but look how they treat me . no reply ,no remedy !

I guess I must to wait until another end of weekend ,or maybe I will never get any reply


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## passsacaglia (Feb 18, 2017)

jrockman said:


> I try to contact them again ,I think maybe I can offer more proof to help them
> 
> but another 20 hours passed since my last email
> 
> ...


Can you try EQ and add plugin effects to simulate the con sord effect somehow -or perhaps come up with even better results?? Who knows! When I first didn't have the CSS strings I made some kind of harmonics using the EQ, exciter and some other plugins and playing with tremolo strings, got really good results.

Sorry to hear about your experience, customer service is everything. Soundiron and Wallbank+crew are some of the best I've met. ProjectSAM too


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## procreative (Feb 18, 2017)

I think the polite term for 8dio is that they dont suffer fools gladly.

PS Dont be fooled by the marketing, most sample companies are small businesses and most of the support/customer service people are freelancers or hired in for promotions.


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## StatKsn (Feb 18, 2017)

How about turning this thread into "recommend your favorite sordino strings" thread? 

You can definitely simulate sordino strings with dynamic EQ/multiband comp. I use TDR Nova (free!) and compressing around 1k-2k gives a pretty good sound to my ears.


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## Lode_Runner (Feb 18, 2017)

afterlight82 said:


> And if you sent them an ID card that they can't actually read, how are they to know it is legit?



Why are people blaming jrockman for not being able to provide an identity card that 8Dio can read if he or she lives in Taiwan? My Passport and Driver's license are in English, I couldn't provide ID in Chinese, so if some Taiwanese company asked for my ID I'd have to send them one in English (not that I would). And how would 8Dio be able to tell if _any_ scanned ID is legit, whether they could read it or not? It'd be extremely easy to make a convincing forgery using Photoshop, and any buy-download-charge-back-and-torrent pirate would likely do just that, hence making it a ridiculously ineffective copy protection in the first place. 

On another note, if 8Dio wanted me as a legitimate customer to provide identification to be able to buy their libraries, I'd respond that it's too much hassle just to buy a sample library and go buy strings from Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Cinematic Studio Series or Audiobro instead.


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## EvilDragon (Feb 18, 2017)

Lode_Runner said:


> On another note, if 8Dio wanted me as a legitimate customer to provide identification to be able to buy their libraries, I'd respond that it's too much hassle just to buy a sample library and go buy strings from Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Cinematic Studio Series or Audiobro instead.



Yup!


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## vms (Feb 18, 2017)

jrockman said:


> that is the part make me angry
> 
> If the chinese name cant be reference for them ,is reasonable! then ask me to send a copy of passport which have chinese name in English on it ( just the same to my name on credit card)
> It is totaly acceptable to me!!!
> But they didnt do anything, just three day blank,then send an email "we cant sell it to you ,will refund" without any remedy!


you should have been smarter
whenever someone ask for your passport/ID card copy
tell him to go fxxk himself and spent your $$ elsewhere
(except EDU discount)

and I think you have done enough complaining
it's time to focus on your music


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## mc_deli (Feb 18, 2017)

While I think the OP has gone over the top with accusations... There is obviously something wrong with this company. That KVR thread linked through to this
https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMu...o_productions_deleted_my_comments_removed_me/
It's old but there are some quite telling comments in there.

In the end we have a lot of choice as consumers and customer service is a factor-and easily amplified.

I have made my last 8Dio purchase, not because of the accusations above, but because they seem like the kind of company who will stiff me when I least expect it, or expect me to idly watch while they stiff others.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 18, 2017)

constaneum said:


> There's no way any company will be that racist from commercial perspective.



I would be really shocked if that weren't true. Green is green, for most it's the only colour.


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## FriFlo (Feb 18, 2017)

Some of you seem to be confusing two things here: Don't get hung up on the word racism, as that is pretty loaded. But please except that - intentions put aside - to exclude someone based on their home country IS discrimination! Nobody said 8dio hates Asians ... but they seem to block people based on their origin. It is clear discrimination of those people that are not responsible for illegal actions of some of their fellow citizens.
Further, it seems to be wrong, as some people pointed out: The servers for those cracked products may be located in those countries they want to exclude, but the people uploading that stuff may come from anywhere.
Lastly, it seem to be ineffective, as there are just as many cracked 8dio libraries on the web as from any other developer.
So, basically, I could just sum it up as 8dio shooting in their own foot with this behavior. But I find it frightening how many people here seem to find that behavior acceptable. I would like to see the same people, if they would be affected on a regular basis ... some here said they would just turn away and buy from someone else. I would not bet on that, if it would happen more than once.


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## Quasar (Feb 18, 2017)

constaneum said:


> I'm a Malaysian born Chinese....yup, i'm Asian. so What?? I'm still happily purchasing and using 8dio's products. I've just bought the Adagio Violin which is on 70% sale and i straight away got my download link within split seconds. Don't simply label a company being racist without any solid evidence. Give them an explanation chance....*There's no way any company will be that racist from commercial perspective.*



Though I do not believe 8Dio is racist, your last statement is not always true. During the shameful chapter of Jim Crow discrimination in the US, for instance, denial of for-pay goods and services was a huge component of what the Civil Rights movement was protesting, petitioning to change...

... I had forgotten all about it, but was once asked to send my ID via email to 8Dio and I complied. This was when they had their big 40% (or whatever) sale last year, and were giving freebies along with purchases. I got a free library that I had no interest in, and only wanted to give it away to another forum member who wanted that freebie but missed the sales deadline for it. 8Dio was nice enough, and we were able to get the transfer done, but not without jumping through those hoops... I do think it's foolish to send scanned IDs to strangers over unencrypted email (and thought so at the time) but just did it anyway. Whatever.


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## Quasar (Feb 18, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> Some of you seem to be confusing two things here: Don't get hung up on the word racism, as that is pretty loaded. But please except that - intentions put aside - to exclude someone based on their home country IS discrimination! Nobody said 8dio hates Asians ... but they seem to block people based on their origin. It is clear discrimination of those people that are not responsible for illegal actions of some of their fellow citizens.
> Further, it seems to be wrong, as some people pointed out: The servers for those cracked products may be located in those countries they want to exclude, but the people uploading that stuff may come from anywhere.
> Lastly, it seem to be ineffective, as there are just as many cracked 8dio libraries on the web as from any other developer.
> So, basically, I could just sum it up as 8dio shooting in their own foot with this behavior. But I find it frightening how many people here seem to find that behavior acceptable. I would like to see the same people, if they would be affected on a regular basis ... some here said they would just turn away and buy from someone else. I would not bet on that, if it would happen more than once.



Good points, all. To draw a distinction based on x vs. y is "discriminatory" in the the most basic, dictionary-definition sense of the word, and you are no doubt right that those of us who don't live in the targeted regions of the world are too cavalier about it, only because it doesn't adversely effect us.

This is speculative, I know, but it's reasonable to conclude that 8Dio is paranoid about piracy, and it's of course well-documented that when paranoiac, people often behave inconsistently and irrationally. Sad...


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Feb 18, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> I do think the idea of having to send over your ID is strange- but as others in this thread have stated, 8dio has done the same to them - so it's a common thing.



I am afraid I have to say that in all the time I bought from them (which is now about $2,000 worth), they never asked me for ID once. I did not have to scan or send anything over, just to offer a situation where someone has not run into this.

And in jrockman's defence, I have to say it must be extremely frustrating and angering for this to happen to them when they simply want the product for their composition work. Yes there is exaggeration, but I think as a forum though we are to keep standards and request calm, we need to be understanding here that he is clearly panicking. 
Both sides should be considered.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Feb 18, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> There's this little thing with credit cards called chargeback. As someone who runs their own business in a very niche market, I get a ridiculous number of emails from all over telling me that the sender is interested in my products - even they don't know what these products are. They always want to pay with a credit card. And if you try and put these transactions through, very often your card service provider will warn you that if there is a problem with the payment they will not be responsible for your losses.
> 
> (Effectively - they do not give you an authorisation code and on your own head be it if there is a problem - they just take the payment back out of your account). So you can either refuse the transaction, or try and minimise the risk by trying to verify as many of the details as possible.
> 
> ...



Oh, I completely understand this. We have that here in the UK as well. In local shops you have to pay 50p fee for using card payments under £5-10 pounds depending on the shop). Because the lovely greedy banks will supply them with card machines and charge a percentage for the card machine usage by the owner. Whatever your view, banks will do anything to make back or not have to pay out money. Along with the corporations managing them.

It is an unfair system, but sadly it is the system. And the people with the most money get to decide how it works.


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## evilantal (Feb 18, 2017)

Is 8Dio an American company?
Under European law they wouldn't be allowed to ask you for a copy of your id.
They can ask to see it for verification though (don't know how that would work, though). But if they receive and store it somewhere (even temporarily on their email server), that's a nono.

I would never send id information to any company over such an insecure channel as email. I also doubt a sample library company would have the security measures to store such things safely.

As for discrimination, that's a whole different story. Sadly, there's a lot of unintended discrimination in the commercial realm due to insufficient data and inadequate risk modeling. But now I'm delving into my day job


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## wst3 (Feb 18, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> Nope! You can't punish a whole country by denying them service based on what some people there might do wrong. That is racist. It might not be intended as such, but be aware that people acting racist have always considered there act normal and justifiable. The fact someone might not feel racist does not mean he isn't acting in such a way. Look at my example I posted before. It does not matter, if it is about skin color or nationality! The behavior is still racist.



This is where society seems to have jumped the tracks. There is ample evidence that China, the nation, does not enforce IP laws as established in North America, Europe, etc. There are even statements that "western" style IP laws are hampering Chinese economic growth.

As a vendor in the US you are entitled to do business with who you choose, as long as your criteria is not a protected group (e.g. race, gender, etc). So you are allowed to refuse a sale to anyone in China based on their current track record for protecting intellectual property rights. Few if any do so, but you are also well within your rights to refuse to sell to someone in China who can not provide suitable documentation, or has been discovered sharing your products, or has been discovered sharing other products. That is within your rights, as it should be.

In this case I'd have to guess that the documentation provided either tripped an alarm or was insufficient. The OP is complaining that they could not read the Chinese characters. Since a Chinese passport probably still has English language in it I have to ask why you wouldn't send that page to an American company. Were you testing them?

In spite of my belief that 8Dio did nothing wrong I have to confess I'm not sure I'd send them such documentation. Fortunately I've purchased quite a few libraries from them, going all the way back to Tonehammer days, so they know me. (They also know me for some pretty annoying support requests<G>). If I were in the OPs shoes what would I do? I'd like to think I'd thank them for the refund and never look back, but I can't be sure.

So this is where piracy has brought us?


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## jrockman (Feb 18, 2017)

wst3 said:


> This is where society seems to have jumped the tracks. There is ample evidence that China, the nation, does not enforce IP laws as established in North America, Europe, etc. There are even statements that "western" style IP laws are hampering Chinese economic growth.
> 
> As a vendor in the US you are entitled to do business with who you choose, as long as your criteria is not a protected group (e.g. race, gender, etc). So you are allowed to refuse a sale to anyone in China based on their current track record for protecting intellectual property rights. Few if any do so, but you are also well within your rights to refuse to sell to someone in China who can not provide suitable documentation, or has been discovered sharing your products, or has been discovered sharing other products. That is within your rights, as it should be.
> 
> ...



Im a bit tired to explain this again and again, this is prob last time
first ,we speak chinese DOES NOT mean we are China ,think about it ,if someone said
that American speak English so they are England ,to me that was a little bit racism,A lot western people thought they all speak chinese so they are all china.
Racism is not only speak dirty word to someone ,but also judging ppl according to stereotype too!

Someone who think that ppl speak chinese will all behavior like china ppl ,Even thought they ARE all china ,this is typical stereotype .


We are not China ,My country is Taiwan , we have a very complete IP laws, Even a US company can sue us if some one pirate something

second,Why I send them ID not passport ,Bcuz they ask me to ,they say ID,and I even told them my ID is all in chinese before send it ,they didnt react any thing, just told me send it (like Im talk to a robot)
And I would send passport to remedy ,to give them more info in English ,but they didnt ask ,just shut down the door,thats why Im here


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## fritzmartinbass (Feb 18, 2017)

jrockman said:


> OH I know! only white people can use your product right?



This is racist and should be removed by the mod. Sorry dude, my wife is Chinese and I lived and taught in China for 5 years. Sorry you had a problem, but you should take your racist crap elsewhere.
I know Taiwan is not China, but it doesn't give you the right.


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## jrockman (Feb 18, 2017)

fritzmartinbass said:


> This is racist and should be removed by the mod. Sorry dude, my wife is Chinese and I lived and taught in China for 5 years. Sorry you had a problem, but you should take your racist crap elsewhere.
> I know Taiwan is not China, but it doesn't give you the right.


I know those are bad word ,it is just my emotional statement
8dio is a famous company (at least in this industry)
I am nobody ,that is the only way I can express my wronged, my only pathetic weapon
those word are just for 8dio
If it offense you and make u feel bad ,Im sorry !


but I wont change a word untill injustice undone


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## d.healey (Feb 18, 2017)

Doesn't China claim that Taiwan is China? And isn't that USA policy too? - here we go...


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## wst3 (Feb 18, 2017)

jrockman said:


> Im a bit tired to explain this again and again, this is prob last time
> first ,we speak chinese DOES NOT mean we are China ,think about it ,if someone said
> that American speak English so they are England ,to me that was a little bit racism,A lot western people thought they all speak chinese so they are all china.
> Racism is not only speak dirty word to someone ,but also judging ppl according to stereotype too!
> ...


Please accept my apology for not being specific enough - in the first part of my rant I was speaking specifically about a company refusing to sell to a nation with a demonstrable lack of respect for IP laws, and I used one of your neighbor countries as an example. I did not intend to suggest that you lived somewhere you did not!

In the second part of my post I did speak more specifically about 8Dio and your specific conflict with them, but I referred to a Chinese passport, not sure why, I did know better.

I have several friends who own small companies, some of them develop libraries for Kontakt, and I know their frustration. I think some of them have taken their anti-piracy approach to the extreme, but since I don't have a financial stake in their businesses my opinion is of little value.

In this case I suspect that there is a communications breakdown, and no, not the characters on the ID you provided<G>. In the past 8Dio has been known to be uncommunicative when things get sticky. I'm not sure that's the best avenue, but it is their job to decide when the support effort exceeds the value of the deal. I've worked in support in the past, and this can, and does happen. How you handle it makes the difference!

I am sorry you were treated poorly, and I'm sorry that you can't purchase a product you would like for reasons that appear to be based on geography and the reputation of a region, even if your specific state is not part of the problem. But that won't affect my purchasing decisions... I think 8Dio handled this poorly, but sadly I can't claim I've never handled a situation poorly...

Last thought - even on simple stuff I expect to wait 2-3 days for a reply from 8Dio. I don't know why, but it is what it is. I also know that at least some of the time the principles do answer support questions. So if you really want to complete this purchase I'd keep after them.


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## muk (Feb 18, 2017)

You think 8dio blocked you because you are Taiwanese, and they concluded from that fact that you could possibly pirate their product. That would be discriminatory. But we don't know if that was the reasoning behind 8dio's action. However:



jrockman said:


> I am a Taiwanese ,we speak Chinese ,But we are not China ,we dont do piracy things.



By the same standards, isn't that discriminatory too?


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## jrockman (Feb 18, 2017)

muk said:


> You think 8dio blocked you because you are Taiwanese, and they concluded from that fact that you could possibly pirate their product. That would be discriminatory. But we don't know if that was the reasoning behind 8dio's action. However:
> 
> 
> 
> By the same standards, isn't that discriminatory too?



Im afraid my friend ,the answer is "NO"

I can read .speak listen Chinese very well
So I am so sure that in China ,pirate are be encouraged ,ex their weapon their plane ,cellphone , Game TV SHOW,,almost everything full of pirate, even their government buy fighter aircraft then replicate it! Nothing is secret or big deal .


discriminatory? I just speak the truth .


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## kitekrazy (Feb 18, 2017)

So has anyone suggested an optional product for the OP? I guess you called brow beat him some more for irrational comments due to anger.


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## Polkasound (Feb 18, 2017)

Jrockman, it's apparent to me, based on your level of emotion and by how much time you're spending on this issue, that you are obviously a distraught, existing 8Dio customer, and not a pirater as 8Dio might suspect. If I were in your shoes, I would be equally livid, so I understand your use of stronger language.

When I feel I have been mistreated by a company, the company very quickly realizes they picked on the wrong guy. It takes a lot of time and patience, but you just have to keep the pressure on and keep escalating the issue, basically becoming a PITA, until you start getting satisfactory results. But it's very important to always keep your tone civil and your language diplomatic.

Since you were refunded in full and you're not out any money, another option would be to let it go and take your business elsewhere. Unless you REALLY need 8Dio's products, I'm sure their competitors will be more than happy to take a sale away from them.

Best of luck to you.


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## fritzmartinbass (Feb 18, 2017)

d.healey said:


> Doesn't China claim that Taiwan is China?


Yes, I know I lived there. China would go to war over Taiwan. But, Taiwan wants out.


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## kaiyoti (Feb 18, 2017)

I think 8Dio's antipiracy mechanism is a quite too excessive. It seems extremely unfair that countries are denied of business due to their status. In this particular case, piracy IS more prevalent in China than Taiwan. If the question being asked is "Is Taiwan part of China" as a result of China telling people to agree with their "One-China" policy, then the rest of the world really need to really learn about how independent states really work rather than some grade school policy: 'I called it first'. When Trump picked up the call from President of Taiwan, China advises that it puts the China-Taiwan "peace" at risk. They just made a threat by using the word "peace". So whether or not Taiwan IS really part of China, do you think the people of Taiwan WANT to be seen as this nation of bullies?

Jrockman, just take your business elsewhere. Whatever you are after from 8Dio, there are alternatives elsewhere.


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## fritzmartinbass (Feb 18, 2017)

jrockman said:


> I know those are bad word ,it is just my emotional statement


You do not have to bring racism in to it. I feel ya man, but it is not about race.


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## fritzmartinbass (Feb 18, 2017)

kitekrazy said:


> So has anyone suggested an optional product for the OP?


 Spitfire Chamber Strings


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## fritzmartinbass (Feb 18, 2017)

jrockman said:


> I am a Taiwanese ,we speak Chinese ,But we are not China ,we dont do piracy things.


Yeah, us Americans don't do that kind of thing either. lol


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## tokatila (Feb 18, 2017)

Well, I'm from Finland, I paid with credit card and my purchase was verified with Visa, which basically means that I verified my identity with my banking passwords when paying. (Spitfire uses this for example.)

All the official government accounts use banking passwords to identify the person here in Finland. For example one uses banking passwords when leaving tax return or applying any social support etc.

And they still wanted my passport. And I'm white Caucasian male.

And I have easily spent five figure sum to sample libraries and could have easily spent a few grands with 8dio, but more power to Spitfire (and others) for accepting my business.


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## StatKsn (Feb 18, 2017)

Not to dismiss 8Dio's attempt against piracy which is somewhat justified, but personally I am not a fan of 8Dio's attitude and business practice in general while I shopped more than $3000 before. Recently decided to unsubscribe and stop shopping there, haha.

I would instead go for Cinesamples, Cinematic Studio Series, Spitfire, Soundiron, Fluffy Audio, Audiobro, Virharmonic, ProjectSAM, VSL, ISW, Embertone, etc, etc.


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## Andrew_m (Feb 18, 2017)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I am afraid I have to say that in all the time I bought from them (which is now about $2,000 worth), they never asked me for ID once. I did not have to scan or send anything over, just to offer a situation where someone has not run into this.
> 
> And in jrockman's defence, I have to say it must be extremely frustrating and angering for this to happen to them when they simply want the product for their composition work. Yes there is exaggeration, but I think as a forum though we are to keep standards and request calm, we need to be understanding here that he is clearly panicking.
> Both sides should be considered.


I agree. I think the whole idea is strange and I've never experienced it, nor would I trust sending my ID to them.


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## procreative (Feb 18, 2017)

Slightly off topic, but the idea of China pirating intellectual property is almost funny. Seeing as nearly every developed country has sold their souls for cheaper manufacturing in China. Thats all they have left, intellectual property.

So knowing how Chinese manufacturers copy and replicate said property, they continue to get stuff made there and in doing so turn a blind eye to their poor human rights record.

You reap what you so, pretty soon they will be telling us how to behave and we will have no choice as they could then withold products... and what would we do?

For example Mackie, once proudly assembled in Woodmanville or whatever its called, now probably the same factory as Behringer who everyone used to slag off as cheap Chinese crap.


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## Andrew_m (Feb 18, 2017)

jrockman said:


> I am a Taiwanese ,we speak Chinese ,But we are not China ,we dont do piracy things


OK. WHAT BULLSHIT! Now you're being completely discriminatory towards a group of people - the *same *thing you claimed 8DIO did to you...

Taiwan has a leading tech industry, hence, a tech-centric populace. I knew many people who pirated in Taiwan, both expat and Taiwanese. It's done everywhere.
You have a lot to learn about the world, making such ridiculous claims.


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## ghostnote (Feb 18, 2017)




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## Polkasound (Feb 18, 2017)

It's important that when you're quoting a foreigner whose command of the English language doesn't seem to be the strongest, that you make room for misinterpretation.

"But we are not China—we don't do piracy things" is a discriminatory statement. "But we are not China, and we don't do piracy things" is two independent clauses. JRockman used a comma, so there is no definitive way to interpret what he meant.


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## pottering (Feb 18, 2017)

Funny how the first comments mock OP for giving his ID (and being "scammed"), but after that people smoothly switch into mocking OP for not accepting as "totally natural" having to give up your ID card or passport data.


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## erica-grace (Feb 18, 2017)

I think it's time this thread be locked.


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## tcollins (Feb 18, 2017)

I certainly don't believe that 8Dio was out to discriminate against you. Your purchase, rightly or wrongly, was most likely flagged by the service(s) they use for transactions/downloads who would not release the download. 8Dio actually took the time to look into your situation to try to resolve it.


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## FriFlo (Feb 18, 2017)

erica-grace said:


> I think it's time this thread be locked.


I think you have a problem with free speech ...


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## holywilly (Feb 18, 2017)

We as professional working composers from Taiwan buy libraries and plugins. We don't like the idea of "use pirated stuffs for commercial production".


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## afterlight82 (Feb 18, 2017)

Andrew_m said:


> OK. WHAT BULLSHIT! Now you're being completely discriminatory towards a group of people - the *same *thing you claimed 8DIO did to you...
> 
> Taiwan has a leading tech industry, hence, a tech-centric populace. I knew many people who pirated in Taiwan, both expat and Taiwanese. It's done everywhere.
> You have a lot to learn about the world, making such ridiculous claims.



Actually, he's technically correct (to the extent that Taiwan's piracy problems aren't as bad as China's, not the idea that there is no piracy in Taiwan period...). Taiwan by most measures has less piracy than China, and also the USA, Russia, and the Ukraine. It's in fifth place, and the USA is in third, I believe (China Russia are no 1 and 2)


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## feck (Feb 18, 2017)

This thread is utter nonsense.


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## Fleer (Feb 18, 2017)

Not utter, but close.


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## jmvideo (Feb 18, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Not utter, but close.


 
No, it's utter. Has anyone stopped to realize that the OP is probably a teenager? I don't know who else could possibly say all the ridiculous things he's said so far.


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## pottering (Feb 18, 2017)

Anyhow, OP should know that most music companies take the weekend off, so having your emails go unanswered for 3 or 4 days (friday, saturday, sunday and a lazy monday) is not uncommon.


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## Fleer (Feb 18, 2017)

Happiness is a cigar called Hamlet.


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## Lode_Runner (Feb 18, 2017)

jmvideo said:


> No, it's utter. Has anyone stopped to realize that the OP is probably a teenager? I don't know who else could possibly say all the ridiculous things he's said so far.


Now you're being ageist!


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## Markus S (Feb 19, 2017)

feck said:


> This thread is utter nonsense.


Personally, I think it is very interesting and raises some important points.


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## Quasar (Feb 19, 2017)

Markus S said:


> Personally, I think it is very interesting and raises some important points.


My takeaway from this thread is that castigating all members of any group because of the actions of a few is wrong. That, and don't ever trust anyone from Connecticut.


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## Polkasound (Feb 19, 2017)

I'm sure 8Dio can come up with a reason for denying sales to JRockman, and I'd sure like to hear it. But regardless of the reason, there are no winners here. 8Dio lost a sale _and_ a customer, and gained nothing but seven pages of undesirable publicity.

As a small-time developer, I know that at anytime, someone could buy my products and then start reselling them in another country or making them free to download. My music has been pirated in the past, so why not my instruments? It's a risk every software developer takes in the digital world.

As far as I know, piracy can be deterred, but it can't be 100% avoided. I understand the need to take proven measures against it, such as blocking sales to known pirate IPs and filing never-ending DCMA complaints with search engines, but to cast such a wide net that it denies sales to legitimate customers takes things a little too far.

Piracy is stealing, but stealing is a flaw of human nature, not a geographical anomaly. Humans occupy every country on the planet. Good luck with that, 8Dio.


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## Ashermusic (Feb 19, 2017)

Polkasound said:


> Piracy is stealing, but stealing is a flaw of human nature, not a geographical anomaly. Humans occupy every country on the planet. Good luck with that, 8Dio.



I think it is more of a generational problem than a geographical one.


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## Tysmall (Feb 19, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> I think it is more of a generational problem than a geographical one.



*waves cane*


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## creativeforge (Feb 21, 2017)

jrockman, were you able to get through to 8Dio? Let us know if you can? Or did you go for a different option?


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## C.R. Rivera (Feb 21, 2017)

"Piracy is stealing, but stealing is a flaw of human nature, not a geographical anomaly."

My historian hat is on--Well, the definition is fluid, as piracy can differ over time and the "law" ill-prepared and ill-balanced. The UK recently proposed a 10 year sentence for "piracy"---writ large---. Thus, a larger moral question may be is manslaughter/homicide less horrible (as little as 2-5 years) a crime then piracy? Ask Chicago IL, as piracy is NOT the issue there.


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## Mundano (Feb 21, 2017)

Best thread ever showing human nature... 

Peace all!


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## jrockman (Feb 21, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> jrockman, were you able to get through to 8Dio? Let us know if you can? Or did you go for a different option?



Yea ,Finally I get through to 8dio,Just like how I go through the customs WITH MY PASSPORT

I start to download it right now ,thank God

and I will do some modify to OP too,for their reputation

Anyway ,thanks everyone trying to help in this thread.

But I still think that is really a bad idea to ask for passport

Why not just use dongle key!??


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## creativeforge (Feb 21, 2017)

Each company tests and uses what gives them the best security, I guess. 

Glad to see you were successful! And thank you for editing some of your posts, yes, it's very thoughtful of you.

Peace,

Andre


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## woodsdenis (Feb 22, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> While I think the OP has gone over the top with accusations... There is obviously something wrong with this company. That KVR thread linked through to this
> https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMu...o_productions_deleted_my_comments_removed_me/
> It's old but there are some quite telling comments in there.
> 
> ...



Yes the Dubstep debacle, a lesson in how not to deal with an issue. They also refused to sell a library to a well known composer and member here who is British !!


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## paoling (Feb 22, 2017)

jrockman said:


> Why not just use dongle key!??



Dongle Key is not an option for Kontakt libraries.


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## Quasar (Feb 22, 2017)

paoling said:


> Dongle Key is not an option for Kontakt libraries.


Nor is a dongle key an option for anything that targets Tugboat as a potential customer.

jrockman, glad it worked out for you with 8Dio, despite the hassles you had to go through.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 22, 2017)

Jay wrote:



> I think it is more of a generational problem than a geographical one.



I think it has more to do with religion.


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## Fleer (Feb 22, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I think it has more to do with religion.


Or human conviction, and religion as its organized manifestation.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 22, 2017)

Man. This is the second time today my sarcasm hasn't translated well into writing.

I guess it's not obvious that I'm kidding.


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## Michael Antrum (Feb 22, 2017)

If only there was some way you could subliminally indicate that your post was a humorous and witty aside, rather than a biting comment and was not intended not to be taken too seriously. Wouldn't it be great if something like that were possible....










You're Welcome ! ​


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## Polkasound (Feb 22, 2017)

I am VERY glad that everything worked out between JRockman and 8Dio. Had it not been resolved, I might have written 8Dio off. As someone who cut his teeth in customer service, accidents and human error don't bother me the slightest. All that matters is how they're handled. One of my favorite quotes came from Commissioner Reagan on an episode of Blue Bloods: "It's not what you did that matters; it's what you do next."

The passport thing freaks me out a little, but every business does things their own way.


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## Mornats (Feb 22, 2017)

I would flat out refuse to send them any ID. I wanted to check out their free sample strings library so I signed up for an account. They emailed me my username _and _my password in plain text. This was a password that I'd given them too, and not a temporary one. I won't send any company personal info if they're that blatantly lax about security. Luckily I use a password generator/manager so it was a random string.


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## Fleer (Feb 22, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Man. This is the second time today my sarcasm hasn't translated well into writing.
> 
> I guess it's not obvious that I'm kidding.


You gotta be


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## Quasar (Feb 23, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I think it has more to do with religion.



I think it's (to paraphrase the great Tom Lehrer) due to the fact that gargling is no longer passed down from father to son as part of our oral tradition...


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## JonSolo (Feb 23, 2017)

Isn't it time to change the title of this thread to "I overreacted...8DIO is great after all"?


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## Arbee (Feb 23, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> Isn't it time to change the title of this thread to "I overreacted...8DIO is great after all"?


Or perhaps "Please let this thread die a natural death"? I can't believe it's still going


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