# Which orchestra is easier to use for total orchestral noob?



## Rey (Jul 21, 2017)

Should I get:-

1)ProjectSAM symphobia/orchestra,or essentials 1 and essentials 2

2)Orchestra Tools-Berlin Orchestra Inspire

3)Sonuscore- The Orchestra

Thank you for your feedbacks and suggestions

additional info: just a hobbyist musician with organ,keyboard background education


----------



## ctsai89 (Jul 21, 2017)

projectSAM, there are no pattern features like sonuscore does nor does it truly have some important instruments separated out from ensemble patches. They are quite old as well. I tried them out before but I dont own it.

Inspire- everything is in natural balance in terms of volume so I imagine that you wouldn't have to do any mixing if you dind't want to enhance your sound. They will sit ok out of box I believe. Some important instruments are separated out for you to use (such as solo trumpet, solo flute/horn)

Sonuscore- I have it. I like it but the volume levels aren't really naturally balanced. Especially when you open the multi-patches or the patches with pre programmed patterns, the volume levels have been played around and saved and if you use those patches you would have to mix yourself other patches to it to your liking.


So it's inspire vs the orchestra.

If your musically (pitch/rhythm/theory) gifted and would not need those pre programmed patterns to inspire you to write music, avoid the orchestra and go for inspire. If you're very good with tech and can work with your tech knowledge, using it to make your ideas into a releasable compositional track, go for sonuscore.

(it's only my opinion but hopefully it helps)


----------



## PeterN (Jul 21, 2017)

I got both (2 and 3) and in my experience they compliment each other. Its like a Gin & Tonic, and someone says if you order a Gin & Tonic, and have to choose between the gin or tonic, then which one is that. Even worse, to leave one part out to save money. The raw gin is bitter and the tonic lacks the magic. But combined they do great. So I mean if there was only the option of choosing one, thats like a coitus interruptus thing. Fair enough, if its the first orchestral library, ok, then Berlin Inspire.


----------



## Hanu_H (Jul 21, 2017)

I think that if you are just starting out and getting familiar with orchestral music, you should not go with ensemble libraries. It's better for you in the long run to buy a library with all the separate instruments available, so you learn the ranges, different playing techniques and all the colors you can get out of the orchestra. With ensemble libraries you are tied to the orchestration they already have. I think The Orchestra would be better because of that. You don't get every instrument in the orchestra but you get the basic palette. Other libraries you might want to check out are EWQL Symphonic Orchestra, CineSymphony Lite or even Halion Symphonic Orchestra might be good for a beginner. Of course if you are planning on doing trailer/epic music only and not traditional orchestral music, you would be good with any of the ensemble based libraries.

-Hannes


----------



## MatFluor (Jul 21, 2017)

I'll quickly copy-paste something I wrote in another thread (it was about ensemble libraries for sketching):

So - it might be faster to sketch on a piano/piece of paper. These sketching methods provide quick results, which isn't necessarily bad - but in my opinion (as with a lot of shortcuts): If haven't learned it before, using only shortcuts will hurt you in the long run.

If you never actually cooked your own tomato sauce from fresh tomatoes, you will only be able to make dishes with the pre-packaged one. As learning tool, those thigns are nice, and in the hand of someone who knows how to use it, it's convenient. But be careful as a newbie (I am one too, I'm avoiding such things as good as I can for exactly that reason) - you might get lazy and just "trust on the package" instead of "trust your ability to compose/orchestrate"


----------



## bigcat1969 (Jul 21, 2017)

I'm a low talent, perpetual newb who is just happy to make anything resembling music so take this with a grain of salt. Sometimes it seems 90% of this board dreams of being Hans Zimmer and writing a score composed entirely of 'ostinati with spicc. strings'. The other 10% want to write music. TO is the greatest gift of all time for the 90%, OTB is the greatest gift of all time for those aspiring (however poorly) to the 10%. Who do you aspire to be Zimmer or Bach?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 21, 2017)

I would recommend EastWest Symphonic Orchestra, it's huge and works great right out of the box.


----------



## Mojo Bone (Jul 21, 2017)

I was in those very same shoes recently and I chose CineSymphony Lite for large ensemble sounds. For pop sweetening, disco strings and other functions, I found Kirk Hunter Spotlight Solo Strings to be a good value despite a somewhat clunky/ugly interface. My horn section is Session Horns Pro, but I don't do primarily _orchestral_ work; more like Memphis soul, ska/reggae with horns, or amped-up barrelhouse blues, so your situation is likely different.

CineSymphony Lite's percussion/tympani layer has come in real handy on some world music and electronica tracks as well. I'll probably add 8Dio's Adagietto at some point for thicker small ensemble textures and smoother legato transitions. HTH


----------



## ghandizilla (Jul 21, 2017)

It depends on what you're looking after, your motivation, what kind of music you like and/or want to do, and also, your budget and your hardware. Given this many factors, there is no "the best" option. So, I'll try to differenciate the different ways you can operate. When you write "easy", is it "easy" as in "instant gratification" or easy as in "taking a good learning curve"? And for what purpose?

If you want to_ learn orchestration_ (like _really_ learning: by practicing, by trial and error) : *Orchestral Tools Inspire*. Alternatively : *CineSymphony Lite*. (Which sounds a bit more "hollywoody", less "neutral", but can also be split into single instruments patches; it's not an "ensemble" only product, so it can be compared to OT Inspire.)

If you don't want to learn that much and prefer quick results : *SonusScore The Orchestra*. Orchestral Tools and Cinesamples would sound better than SonusScore, though they doesn't sound as good as full detailed packages. Moreover, there is a risk to do always the same ostinaty-epic thing with a product like The Orchestra (which will soon be overused, anyway).

If you want to _begin_ to learn orchestration and have a great sound (or for hybrid scoring purpose) : *Albion ONE*. If you want to learn orchestration _and_ mixing _and_ have a great sound : *Bernard Hermann Composer Toolkit*.

All these solutions are relatively low-priced, but are not enough if you want to go "serious" in orchestration.

For quick (or hybrid) scoring, *ProjectSAM*. But you'll learn nothing from it and would have poor control. ProjectSAM libraries are great in precise contextes. Also : overused, and very expensive.

If you want to learn the long (but most efficient) way, i. e. by transcribing orchestral works you like and detailing your own work, being a bit overwhelmed at first: *EastWest, Cinesamples, Orchestral Tools, and Spitfire* full orchestra packages are great. It's the sound and level of controls that will let you determine which package you prefer. They often take a lot of RAM and multiple MIDI controllers, but they will still be useful to you in several years (they are frequently updated, and the updates are massive). Only a full orchestra package can be "bread and butter". 8dio Century package is coming and it has a great "recorded speed layers" technology (not "scripted speed layers"), but you'll have to mix it diligently, since it's not recorded in-seat. Cinematic Studio Series is also to be completed, but its scripting shines above its direct competitors

All these libraries would have expressivity problems (hiatus between articulations than can only be ponderated by their multiplication, which then poses playability issues), but I predict that "recorded in performance" and "morph-stacking" and "physical modeling" full orchestra packages will be coming soon. I'm very excited!

Last advice : take one or two products, no more. And learn to use them. You'll get much better results this way than by taking lot of products. Once you are used to the mics, articulations, CC controls, dynamic layers, space and sonic qualities of one library, you can do awesome stuff with it (for instance, I do things with CineBrass today I thought impossible one year ago).


----------



## kitekrazy (Jul 21, 2017)

GPO - it's on sale right now. Then move up if you start getting into it a lot more. Also check the Halion thread. $50.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Jul 21, 2017)

If you have Kontakt the standard factory library has some good stuff in too !


----------



## imagegod (Jul 21, 2017)

+1 for GPO and Kontakt factory...assuming you don't expect 'top-of-the-line' sound, assuming you put in more than a little MIDI work, and assuming you're willing to mix it with cheap/free libraries (some of which are not cleared for paid usage; see below), they can be very useful and musically satisfying:

Great free strings (also free Taiko drums)/Not cleared for paid usage:
http://www.schristiancollins.com/vi-orchestra.php

the ultimate Solo Violin spiccato/staccato library: $14.95:
http://simplesamsamples.com/virtual-instruments/signor-paganini-solo-violin.html

Free Clarinet w/vibrato!
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/the-philharmonia-clarinet-freebie.28446/

Very well done free, full orchestra soundfont sample library:
http://virtualplaying.com/virtual-playing-orchestra/

Free Soundfont Player:
https://www.plogue.com/products/sforzando/


----------



## Mike Fox (Jul 21, 2017)

I actually highly recommend OE 1 and 2 from ProjectSAM. Those libraries include everything you need (plus more) to get you started. Unless you're very interested in spending a lot of time creating your own ensembles, I wouldn't recommend it. You can always do that later. Orchestral Essentials is an instant gratifying library that will instantly have you composing. Not to mention that ProjectSAM's customer service and respect towards their customers is unparalleled. Check out the walkthroughs by Guy Rowland, and make a decision from there.


----------



## Mike Fox (Jul 21, 2017)

kitekrazy said:


> GPO - it's on sale right now. Then move up if you start getting into it a lot more. Also check the Halion thread. $50.


Great advice here. Probably the best library you can buy for the money right now.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 21, 2017)

How does GPO compare to Miroslav Orch. II (by IK Multimedia) ?


----------



## ed buller (Jul 21, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> Sometimes it seems 90% of this board dreams of being Hans Zimmer and writing a score composed entirely of 'ostinati with spicc. strings'.



I respectfully suggest you are somewhat unfamiliar with Mr Zimmer's oeuvre if you think it can be summed up as "ostinati with spicc strings"........


as to what library to buy if you can stomach the PLAY engine ( and many including me can't ) the EAST WEST QUANTUM LEAP orchestra still sounds fantastic. 

e


----------



## germancomponist (Jul 21, 2017)

ed buller said:


> I respectfully suggest you are somewhat unfamiliar with Mr Zimmer's oeuvre if you think it can be summed up as "ostinati with spicc strings"........
> 
> 
> as to what library to buy if you can stomach the PLAY engine ( and many including me can't ) the EAST WEST QUANTUM LEAP orchestra still sounds fantastic.
> ...


+1

I am now working on a project where I use EWQLSO in the old Kontakt version. Works so very well.


----------



## bigcat1969 (Jul 21, 2017)

My apology to Mr. Zimmer who is of course a superb (and rich) composer with a widely varied palette. His imitators, who seem to fixate on one aspect of his work and create high speed spiccato arp based music that has a shelf life as short as the notes themselves and as we are seeing can be replaced by AIs, are not superb nor rich composers nor are they ever going to be his competitors.


----------



## Replicant (Jul 21, 2017)

Rey said:


> Should I get:-
> 
> 1)ProjectSAM symphobia/orchestra,or essentials 1 and essentials 2
> 
> ...



I would recommend none of those save for maybe Inspire.



Wolfie2112 said:


> I would recommend EastWest Symphonic Orchestra, it's huge and works great right out of the box.



+1 for Symphonic Orchestra; it's still arguably the best all-in-one deal that will allow you to compose _actual music_ and is comparable in price to the OP's list if you get the gold version.

*Do not make the mistake I did
*
That being the idea of a "starter" library. It's better to be a noob with absolute _best _tools you can possibly afford and become a master later, rather than become a master with limited-capability ensemble libraries and have to spend more money and get something else. _This is a vicious cycle_. It is also difficult to really get good at it if you're working with limited articulations in giant ensemble patches.

So I would instead recommend getting a divided, all-in-one library like EWQLSO or similar, consider Composer Cloud, or save up and buy the sections individually.


----------



## Rey (Jul 21, 2017)

Thanks for the suggestions. its truly illuminating. I have never heard of GPO Garritan Personal Orchestra before. Does the sound quality matchup to those I listed? Interesting price and sale they are having if I may say.


----------



## markleake (Jul 21, 2017)

As much as I like some parts of EWSO, it is not something I would recommend as a starting point. A new user will struggle to get good results due to the library's limitations. It was a good choice maybe 5 or so years ago. Not now.

Better to try Composer Cloud and download the Hollywood libraries. You will soon find out if you can bear using Play.

Other than Composer Cloud, OT Inspire is now easily the best way to go; it's a very good well-rounded starter package, particularly while it is still on sale. Otherwise Albion One if more into hybrid sounds - it has top notch sound but not as well rounded as Inspire in terms of instruments.


----------



## Rey (Jul 21, 2017)

markleake said:


> As much as I like some parts of EWSO, it is not something I would recommend as a starting point. A new user will struggle to get good results due to the library's limitations. It was a good choice maybe 5 or so years ago. Not now.
> 
> Better to try Composer Cloud and download the Hollywood libraries. You will soon find out if you can bear using Play.
> 
> Other than Composer Cloud, OT Inspire is now easily the best way to go; it's a very good well-rounded starter package, particularly while it is still on sale. Otherwise Albion One if more into hybrid sounds - it has top notch sound but not as well rounded as Inspire in terms of instruments.



Thanks for the info. I think I might have to steer clear of ewso or composer cloud. I'm not a fan of subscription base software, and the software is kinda old compare to the 3 I have listed.

Right now I'm considering either projectSAM or Berlin Inspire. Might have to opt out The Orchestra due to the sound quality of the former 2 are more superior based on reports here


----------



## ed buller (Jul 21, 2017)

i think you'll benefit from having a complete orchestra . Pre mixed stuff is very limiting. I find brass and string combos's sound very synthetic . Yes it's a big amount to learn but grab a copy of a Classical score and mock it up. You'll learn heaps about the samples and how to orchestrate too !

e


----------



## Rey (Jul 21, 2017)

ed buller said:


> i think you'll benefit from having a complete orchestra . Pre mixed stuff is very limiting. I find brass and string combos's sound very synthetic . Yes it's a big amount to learn but grab a copy of a Classical score and mock it up. You'll learn heaps about the samples and how to orchestrate too !
> 
> e



thanks for the heads up. I hope it wont be much of a work by getting on complete orchestra or ensemble since I'm not sure which instruments goes where and when where does it play in the orchestra. Perhaps it was my mistake as I forgot to mention earlier that I am just a mere hobbyist musician since my dad sent me to Yamaha electone music school 15 years ago so that's my background since childhood till now and later I learned Playing keyboard for 5 years. I have not make any money out of playing and music and no intereset to join official music-related work. Just a personal passion and interest to improve on my own for my own entertainment and happiness and family and friends. although I'm still on the fence whether it is good to me to go the instant gratification route or hard trial and error approach.


----------



## Steinmetzify (Jul 21, 2017)

Dude I'm right where you are. I'm a metal guitarist with a recent interest in orchestral music and combining the two.

I went for Sonuscore's The Orchestra, and I'm happy.

Is it perfect? Nah...but it's a really really cool thing, especially for a newb. I can write string parts, harp parts, perc parts, or just combine all of them using their engine. It's totally awesome and inspirational. I'm having a blast!


----------



## Replicant (Jul 21, 2017)

markleake said:


> A new user will struggle to get good results due to the library's limitations



Which are?

The only thing it really lacks is "true legato"; it still has way more articulations than many of the recent libraries.

Also, I've never got this whole "it's old" thing.

A sample library either sounds good or it doesn't.


----------



## markleake (Jul 21, 2017)

Replicant said:


> Which are?
> 
> The only thing it really lacks is "true legato"; it still has way more articulations than many of the recent libraries.
> 
> ...


Lack of true legato, legato that does exist can be quite patchy, non-looping patches, play interface is often not intuitive, sound can require a bit of EQ/mixing knowledge, lack of round robins, lack of dynamics, etc.

No, I don't subscribe to the idea of old being bad either, but in this case EWSO really is showing it's age. The samples are still great, but the rest is lacking.

I'm certainly not saying it's unusable, but I think it is not a good choice for a first library. It's basically EWQL abandonware.


----------



## markleake (Jul 21, 2017)

@Replicant. Also, I dare you to do a mockup with something like Inspire and then do the same mockup with EWSO in the same timeframe, and then let us compare the two.


----------



## Replicant (Jul 21, 2017)

markleake said:


> @Replicant. Also, I dare you to do a mockup with something like Inspire and then do the same mockup with EWSO in the same timeframe, and then let us compare the two.



I don't own Inspire — yet, anyway; strongly considering it — but when I do get it, I shall take you up on this challenge.

Unless someone beats me to it, I suppose.


----------



## ghandizilla (Jul 21, 2017)

Composer Cloud is a great opportunity to get your hands on a full orchestra package that is *at the same level *of details, control, and quality as what other editors offer (Spitfire, Cinesamples, OT). On the contrary, GPO would not match the quality of these editors, but is very light on resouces and has been specifically crafted for learners. Yeah, EW Hollywood Orchestra is a bit older than OT & co, but it doesn't mean shit quality-wise. Symphobia was released in 2008 and it's still awesome. Thomas Bergersen did fantastic/undiscernable-from-reality MIDI mockups 15 years ago! The way you use your tools is *this *important. It would be perfect for you to try it and see if you are able to do something with it at first (would be great, since you won't need other tools, and since it has the most important learning curve you could get) or if you need in the first place more simpler tools (that will *not *replace a full orchestra packages). What is your budget?


----------



## Michael Antrum (Jul 22, 2017)

The thing is this, Hollywood Orchestra and East West Symphonic Orchestra are terrific libraries for the money, but if it is your first library, it might end up being a little like giving a Porsche 911 to someone who has only just passed their driving test - and you are quite likely to end up in a ditch somewhere.

Starting off with an ensemble library, which is what I did, will help you kind of stick to the path whilst you find your way. I didn't start out writing Divisi string sections - that came later. It will limit your options in a helpful way whilst you become more familiar with sounds and sections. And even now, years after I bought them, I still use Symphobia all the time.

(One thing to point out is that Project SAM do allow you to resell you libraries (but only once I think). Others do not - so if you made a mistake in what you buy or find this kind of thing is not for you, then you have effectively wasted your money.)

So to get cracking an ensemble library like Albion/Symphobia/OE1 & OE2 might well be the place to start. Don't worry too much about the age of sample libraries too much - if they sound great they sound great. Libraries like the ones mentioned above have stood the test of time - there is a slight tendency here to always go one about the latest and greatest, and then something else new comes out....

I wouldn't go with 'The Orchestra' for my first library - I have it and I really like it - but you will learn more staying away from arpeggiators for the time being.


----------



## Replicant (Jul 22, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> The thing is this, Hollywood Orchestra and East West Symphonic Orchestra are terrific libraries for the money, but if it is your first library, it might end up being a little like giving a Porsche 911 to someone who has only just passed their driving test - and you are quite likely to end up in a ditch somewhere.



To each his own, but like I was saying earlier, I just simply don't understand the logic behind this.

There aren't any high insurance premiums, nor can you wreck a sample library.

Orchestral Essentials and Symphobia are great for what they are, but what they are is a collection of effects and are good for little more than playing big chord pads, staccatos and the occasional pre-orchestrated legato line for the sake of underscore on a tight deadline. It's really not conducive to composing flowing music and heavily boxes you into what those samples are capable of; which isn't much.

Like, if the OP drops 500 bucks on OE, when (s)he gets to the point of saying "okay I'd like to actually compose flowing lines like a real orchestra" where each phrase generally requires a number of articulations that transcend simply "stacc" and "sus", they're going to have to spend that much money or MORE _all over again _to be able to do that.

Why would you start with something so limited when you can learn, just as well with something much more higher end? The only difference is that in the end, you'll be good with good tools instead of good with bad/limiting tools and now have to upgrade.

I have both OE and Symphonic Orchestra which I bought for roughly the same price.

Here is the kind of stuff you can do with OE



It "sounds" cool, but is little more than orchestral/hybrid trailer noise.

Here is an EWQLSO example



MUCH more agile and lively and a wider range of articulations. You could absolutely do the OE example's music with this if you wanted to, but OE could not do this kind of stuff with much authenticity. But again, they sell for about the same price.

I do suppose the OP's questions was "which are easier for total noobs" and I guess that OE, Symphobia etc. would be, but in the end there are no real shortcuts.


----------



## Vovique (Jul 22, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I would recommend EastWest Symphonic Orchestra, it's huge and works great right out of the box.


Eastwest Symphonic Silver for $99 when on sale (every other month) is the best starter option on the market, a complete, very good sounding orchestra.


----------



## JohnG (Jul 22, 2017)

I agree -- Composer Cloud. It provides an inexpensive entry to orchestral writing and will allow you to discover whether you actually enjoy the orchestra or not. PLAY is fine; besides, you can dabble with a huge range of East West libraries.

With regard to sound quality or "being old," Hollywood Strings and Brass are as good as anything released lately that I've heard with one exception: the Performance Legato in Spitfire Symphonic Strings. That is absolute magic, but expensive if you are still dipping your toe in the water and trying to decide if you like orchestral writing.

If money is no object, I'd get both PLAY and Spitfire, and maybe one other library for variety.

At the time, EWQLSO and some other very old libraries were great, but they have been superseded. EWQLSO is from 2004, and the Hollywood series is better in every respect. I wouldn't inflict Garriton on anyone -- awful sound.

As others have written, Symphobia still sounds superb. Can't argue with good recording, great mics, good intonation -- all of that. But Symphobia is an "ensemble" library.

[note: I have received free products from East West]


----------



## ed buller (Jul 22, 2017)

Vovique said:


> Eastwest Symphonic Silver for $99 when on sale (every other month) is the best starter option on the market, a complete, very good sounding orchestra.



no brainer...you get one mic and maybe less articulations.....but at least you won't break the bank and you'll see whats involved . Creating a full orchestral sound is complex but the more choices you have the more creative you can be . This library still sounds superb. Yes some of the articulations are a little dated in their programming but not a lot. There was a world class team on this library . Players , engineer ( probably the best orchestral engineer out there ) programming etc.....It still sounds fantastic and all for the price of a classy bottle of wine......which even with enormous restraint is a couple of days tops !!!

e


----------



## Rey (Jul 22, 2017)

Balefire said:


> I could not in good conscience recommend Garritan Personal Orchestra to anyone other than those on the tightest of budgets. But even then I would recommend EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Silver Edition over GPO any day. You do get a lot for your money with GPO - the content/price ratio is unmatched. But what is also true is that many of the instruments sound awful - not all of them, but enough that you will soon wish you'd bought something that sounded more realistic.



Thank you for the advice. I was about to purchase Garritan because of the attractive pricing.once I check the walkthrough on youtube I can see the sound is not so realistic somewhat


ed buller said:


> no brainer...you get one mic and maybe less articulations.....but at least you won't break the bank and you'll see whats involved . Creating a full orchestral sound is complex but the more choices you have the more creative you can be . This library still sounds superb. Yes some of the articulations are a little dated in their programming but not a lot. There was a world class team on this library . Players , engineer ( probably the best orchestral engineer out there ) programming etc.....It still sounds fantastic and all for the price of a classy bottle of wine......which even with enormous restraint is a couple of days tops !!!
> 
> e






Vovique said:


> Eastwest Symphonic Silver for $99 when on sale (every other month) is the best starter option on the market, a complete, very good sounding orchestra.



Thank you for the advice.. . I'm considering east west symphony orchestra now. If its $99 sure sounds like a bargain. Does purchasing instead of subscribing monthly requires an Ilok key?


----------



## Rey (Jul 22, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> Composer Cloud is a great opportunity to get your hands on a full orchestra package that is *at the same level *of details, control, and quality as what other editors offer (Spitfire, Cinesamples, OT). On the contrary, GPO would not match the quality of these editors, but is very light on resouces and has been specifically crafted for learners. Yeah, EW Hollywood Orchestra is a bit older than OT & co, but it doesn't mean shit quality-wise. Symphobia was released in 2008 and it's still awesome. Thomas Bergersen did fantastic/undiscernable-from-reality MIDI mockups 15 years ago! The way you use your tools is *this *important. It would be perfect for you to try it and see if you are able to do something with it at first (would be great, since you won't need other tools, and since it has the most important learning curve you could get) or if you need in the first place more simpler tools (that will *not *replace a full orchestra packages). What is your budget?



For budget I'm willing to pay up to the price of symphobia or symphobia lumina $500 if quality of sound and ease of use I get in return.


----------



## Rey (Jul 22, 2017)

was reading neigbouring thread/post, does Refx nexus Hollywood expansions would give you the needed/common orchestral sounds?


----------



## Replicant (Jul 22, 2017)

Rey said:


> Thank you for the advice. I was about to purchase Garritan because of the attractive pricing.once I check the walkthrough on youtube I can see the sound is not so realistic somewhat
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The physical ilok key is not longer required.

You can opt to have an electronic license placed on your computer instead.



Rey said:


> was reading neigbouring thread/post, does Refx nexus Hollywood expansions would give you the needed/common orchestral sounds?



It has common orchestral sounds

but they sound about as nice as a burning orphanage.


----------



## JohnG (Jul 22, 2017)

I don't think EWQLSO sounds that bad but honestly, I'd save the $99 and get into the Hollywood series, either purchase or via Composer Cloud. It sounds dramatically better, and isn't even that expensive to try for a few months.

[note: I have received free products from East West]


----------



## Replicant (Jul 22, 2017)

Are we certain the OP can even reliably run the Hollywood Orchestra?


----------



## markleake (Jul 22, 2017)

JohnG said:


> I don't think EWQLSO sounds that bad but honestly, I'd save the $99 and get into the Hollywood series, either purchase or via Composer Cloud. It sounds dramatically better, and isn't even that expensive to try for a few months.
> 
> [note: I have received free products from East West]


I'd second this. The Hollywood series is going to be a nicer experience than EWSO.



Replicant said:


> Are we certain the OP can even reliably run the Hollywood Orchestra?


You don't have to load up the Powerful system articulations if your machine is a bit underpowered, and you still get great results. But it's a good question for the OP.


----------



## Rey (Jul 23, 2017)

JohnG said:


> I don't think EWQLSO sounds that bad but honestly, I'd save the $99 and get into the Hollywood series, either purchase or via Composer Cloud. It sounds dramatically better, and isn't even that expensive to try for a few months.
> 
> [note: I have received free products from East West]





Replicant said:


> Are we certain the OP can even reliably run the Hollywood Orchestra?





markleake said:


> I'd second this. The Hollywood series is going to be a nicer experience than EWSO.
> 
> 
> You don't have to load up the Powerful system articulations if your machine is a bit underpowered, and you still get great results. But it's a good question for the OP.



Thanks . I'm currently running an i5 6500 with 12gb ram. Realtek soundcard


----------



## Ron Kords (Jul 23, 2017)

Pretty sure someone will have mentioned but Spitfire Albion One would be a solid choice.

Disclaimer - im a total Spitfire fan (like many)

You don't get individual instruments but you get first rate quality and a step off point into the wonderful world of Spitfire...


----------



## moosethree (Jul 23, 2017)

OT Inspire, The Orchestra, and Cinesymphony give you a lot to work with. It would be irksome to be working on something and have lack of system resources become an issue.....personally if you are not a professional....your are going to write to the samples any way: ie. does it sound good [to YOU], not does it sound like a real classical orchestra, or fit the desires of a customer.


----------



## madfloyd (Jul 24, 2017)

Here's another perspective. I'm a noob who is trying to get back into it after giving up a few years ago. I bought all the EW Hollywood stuff and it just overwhelmed me. I spent hours trying to parse through articulations and never wrote anything. Obviously YMMV (especially if articulations are second nature for you) but a library that gives you too many choices with each one having to be loaded separately might not be the best one to start with.


----------



## Steinmetzify (Jul 24, 2017)

The above two points especially fit me...being a noob, it had to sound good and be easy to work with.


----------



## markleake (Jul 24, 2017)

madfloyd said:


> Here's another perspective. I'm a noob who is trying to get back into it after giving up a few years ago. I bought all the EW Hollywood stuff and it just overwhelmed me. I spent hours trying to parse through articulations and never wrote anything. Obviously YMMV (especially if articulations are second nature for you) but a library that gives you too many choices with each one having to be loaded separately might not be the best one to start with.


Yes, even after all these years of having the Hollywood libraries, I still find myself having this problem with some of them. Strings I'm looking at you. 

OT Inspire or Albion One are going to be a better option for anyone who wants to start off easy and not feel overwhelmed.


----------



## dpasdernick (Jul 24, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> I'm a low talent, perpetual newb who is just happy to make anything resembling music so take this with a grain of salt. Sometimes it seems 90% of this board dreams of being Hans Zimmer and writing a score composed entirely of 'ostinati with spicc. strings'. The other 10% want to write music. TO is the greatest gift of all time for the 90%, OTB is the greatest gift of all time for those aspiring (however poorly) to the 10%. Who do you aspire to be Zimmer or Bach?



I choose Zimmer. (He's still alive)


----------



## dpasdernick (Jul 24, 2017)

Rey said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. its truly illuminating. I have never heard of GPO Garritan Personal Orchestra before. Does the sound quality matchup to those I listed? Interesting price and sale they are having if I may say.



Rey,

Get Inspire. I've got a lot of the "orch in a box" libraries and Inspire is really beautiful. Then you could add in the Ark libraries after a bit and there will be no stopping you.

happy hunting! 

PS the hunt is better than the kill


----------



## dcoscina (Jul 24, 2017)

I would get a library that has more of a traditional line up- meaning all of the instrument choirs represented. EW Hollywood Silver series is a great package and will help you learn traditional orchestration instead of pre-baked ensembles that skilled developers (who have background in this stuff) have done for you. CineSymphony Lite is the easiest as far as CPU and memory footprint and as someone earlier said, you can divide the groups into individual instruments ie (ww section into flutes, oboes, clarinets, bassoons). The disadvantage is that you only get sustain and shorts articulations. No trills, trem, and nothing beyond the standard classical orchestra line up (well, you do get tuba). the sound of the percussion is terrific! Very hot signal and crisp. I use the percussion kit in finished recordings it's that good. 

Orchestral Tools' Berlin Orchestra Inspire is the new kid on the block and has more sections than individual instruments per orchestra choir. However, they thought out which combinations of instruments would well represent the orchestra and in doing so, you can cover a lot of ground, PLUS there are some beautiful legato patches when you need a line to sing. Great sound and detail. And laptop friendly. 

There are lots of choices out there luckily and none of them are too expensive. It's hard to go wrong actually. 

But I will add one thing- if you are new to orchestral writing, try to listen to as much out there as possible. If you are interested, get recordings of Mahler, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Bartok, Vaughan Williams, Ravel, Debussy, Stravinsky, just to name a few. If you are more adventurous, graduate onto Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Xenakis, Ligeti, Varese, Crumb, and those guys. And there's also the music of John Adams whose work from the 80s in particular is stunning (and also influenced quite a few film scores, especially Don Davis' Matrix series). 

The more you listen to what other great composers/orchestrators have done in the realm of orchestral writing, the better you will be able to navigate it yourself. And if you're partial to music notation, read scores, even if along with the music. Take in live orchestra performances. I've learned a TON from seeing what works live and what doesn't. Even listen to classic film scores from Bernard Herrmann, Jerry Goldsmith (Planet of the Apes rocks!), John Williams, John Barry, Lalo Schifrin, Jerry Fielding, James Horner, Hank Mancini (try Lifeforce- a terrific score from him!), Georges Delerue, Leonard Rosenman, and that's just to name a few. If you can stomach Golden Age composers, Korngold, Tiomkin, Steiner, and Newman are terrific. 

My 2.5 cents. Good luck on your purchase!


----------



## Ultraxenon (Jul 24, 2017)

My first buy was Adagietto from 8dio, it has a beautiful lush sound and i still use much, but it was not the best buy for a noobie like me. I bought Cinestrings Core and Albion after a few weeks. Cinestrings Core is the library i learned to write some orchestral music with. I think it is simple to use (good UI), but beware of the sound, it is a bit "in your face" out of the box. It sounds really nice and beautiful when using a bit of eq, compression and reverb. It has the articulations you need and it has a fair price. 
Albion is section based (high and low) But it has a lot of content and a great sound. I learned more when using Cinestrings because it has the instruments seperated, so I would recomend to learn the basics and then maybe buy Albion or ProjectSam librarys. I used to play in a indie rock band for years so when i jumped into the world of samples it was all new to me.


----------



## Mojo Bone (Jul 27, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> CineSymphony Lite is the easiest as far as CPU and memory footprint and as someone earlier said, you can divide the groups into individual instruments ie (ww section into flutes, oboes, clarinets, bassoons). The disadvantage is that you only get sustain and shorts articulations. No trills, trem, and nothing beyond the standard classical orchestra line up (well, you do get tuba). the sound of the percussion is terrific! Very hot signal and crisp. I use the percussion kit in finished recordings it's that good.



This squares perfectly with my experience of CSLite; great for sketches, runs on a laptop, OK, but the percussion very quickly found its way into my professional work, and the tympani, in particular is better than I've heard from some way more expensive packages.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Jul 27, 2017)

There's a BOGOF offer on Albion one at the moment too......


----------



## bigcat1969 (Jul 27, 2017)

Where is the BOGO on Albion One?


----------



## sostenuto (Jul 27, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> Where is the BOGO on Albion One?



PAIRS Offer. Got e-mail this morning with Clik image. Try SA search and PAIRS ?
Albion Tundra on there too with Olafur Arnalds Composer Toolkit

** CHK COMMERCIAL Announcements


----------



## ModalRealist (Jul 27, 2017)

Want to write *only* hybrid/modern/epic/soundtrack orchestral stuff? Get Albion One (bonus: and EDNA with the current "pairs" offer).

Waiting to write for orchestra in general (sometimes including hybrid/epic)? Get Berlin Inspire.


----------



## sostenuto (Jul 27, 2017)

_Got_ BO_Inspire !  Seemed most logical next pick to be Metropolis Ark(s).
_
NOW_ _ "SA_PAIRS" deal ... Have EDU pricing, and eDNA01, so Albion ONE is more $$.
Great deal on Albion Tundra / Olafur Arnalds Composers Toolkit _ but almost as much as MArk 1 or 2.
Much more interested in hybrid/modern/epic ....
Probably easy choice for experienced Orch/Cine Users ....

No flippin a coin either  Dang !


----------



## PeterN (Jul 27, 2017)

Ive come to realize something with the Sonuscore Orchestra. Now playing with it 2 weeks. This is a generalization, but anyway, when I start the melody (to say 'cue', sounds too much like 'chord progression' stuff here, hence melody), I have The Orchestra there as a 'form', or 'pillar', 'ground', of a kind. Similar to the dentist who just fixed my tooth, she put some thing around the broken tooth first, before she started working inside the tooth, to keep it all contact, and finally, after fixing the inside, then she took the outside structure away. (Without anesthesia btw,  ). Point is the more I orchestrate inside the melody, the more I peel off The Orchestra around it. All in all, a good thing, a handy tool. So for the OP's question, Id say go for Berlin Inspire if you are good at orchestrating, if not, Sonuscore Orchestra is handy. As a 'dentists base tool'


----------



## Michael Antrum (Jul 27, 2017)

PeterN said:


> Ive come to realize something with the Sonuscore Orchestra. Now playing with it 2 weeks. This is a generalization, but anyway, when I start the melody (to say 'cue', sounds too much like 'chord progression' stuff here, hence melody), I have The Orchestra there as a 'form', or 'pillar', 'ground', of a kind. Similar to the dentist who just fixed my tooth, she put some thing around the broken tooth first, before she started working inside the tooth, to keep it all contact, and finally, after fixing the inside, then she took the outside structure away. (Without anesthesia btw,  ). Point is the more I orchestrate inside the melody, the more I peel off The Orchestra around it. All in all, a good thing, a handy tool. So for the OP's question, Id say go for Berlin Inspire if you are good at orchestrating, if not, Sonuscore Orchestra is handy. As a 'dentists base tool'



I don't know what you've been drinking, but can I have some please ?


----------



## ModalRealist (Jul 27, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> _Got_ BO_Inspire !  Seemed most logical next pick to be Metropolis Ark(s).
> _
> NOW_ _ "SA_PAIRS" deal ... Have EDU pricing, and eDNA01, so Albion ONE is more $$.
> Great deal on Albion Tundra / Olafur Arnalds Composers Toolkit _ but almost as much as MArk 1 or 2.
> ...



No, choosing never gets easier. I'd recommend MA1: the choir patches are just so, so great (and the strings and the brass and the epic percussion).

But really, if you'll be writing quiet/atmospheric/pad-y stuff then maybe Tundra+Olafur. Definitely MA1 if you want more bite.


----------



## bigcat1969 (Jul 27, 2017)

Ah buy one get something you don't want free...


----------



## sostenuto (Jul 27, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> Ah buy one get something you don't want free...



Ha ha ... grumpy, grumpy !! 

Actually some decent 'paired' libraries depending on what one has. 
.... up to 38% and beats some __ 'whose name shall not be spoken .....' by a good bit.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Jul 27, 2017)

Voldemort ?


----------



## sostenuto (Jul 27, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> Voldemort ?


 .... _you called ???_


----------



## sostenuto (Jul 27, 2017)

ModalRealist said:


> No, choosing never gets easier. I'd recommend MA1: the choir patches are just so, so great (and the strings and the brass and the epic percussion).
> 
> But really, if you'll be writing quiet/atmospheric/pad-y stuff then maybe Tundra+Olafur. Definitely MA1 if you want more bite.



Thank-you so much for refocusing me as I was losing track of major reasons for MA1 ..... _choir, brass percussion _(absent in Tundra) !! Plenty of time though for MA 1 & 2 and BO-I Codes.
Short fuse on this SA promo, so a longer-term view is appropriate, in terms of where & when Albions fit.

Very cool help at the right moment !! 

Regards


----------



## Mike Fox (Jul 27, 2017)

madfloyd said:


> Here's another perspective. I'm a noob who is trying to get back into it after giving up a few years ago. I bought all the EW Hollywood stuff and it just overwhelmed me. I spent hours trying to parse through articulations and never wrote anything. Obviously YMMV (especially if articulations are second nature for you) but a library that gives you too many choices with each one having to be loaded separately might not be the best one to start with.



This is why I think libraries like OE and Albion are perfect starting points. You don't have to spend much time to get your feet wet.


----------



## TimCox (Jul 27, 2017)

Hanu_H said:


> all the colors you can get out of the orchestra


 This might be the most important aspect lost on ensemble patches. Yes you get an idea of what "Violin I&II Flute 8vb" sounds like but you're less aware of the how and why


----------



## sostenuto (Jul 27, 2017)

mikefox789 said:


> This is why I think libraries like OE and Albion are perfect starting points. You don't have to spend much time to get your feet wet.



OE ???


----------



## rottoy (Jul 27, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> OE ???


ProjectSam Orchestral Essentials.


----------



## sostenuto (Jul 27, 2017)

rottoy said:


> ProjectSam Orchestral Essentials.




THX !
Got my attention; was already looking hard at this option ++ True Strikes 1 & 2.

Probably NOT! $900. for True Strikes 1&2 plus OE 1&2.

OT MA 1 & 2 (w/ BO_I coupon codes) seems better option .......... BUT NOT at current EUR/usd exchange rate !! C'mon !!
Not OT's fault, but $583. is not a go ....


----------

