# 10900K iMac Crashes Frequently



## Jeremy Gillam (May 20, 2021)

I have the 10 core iMac. I've gotten occasional kernel panics the whole time I've had it (only since Dec 2020) and they seem to be increasing in frequency. They seem to happen randomly, or at at least processor load has no bearing on when it happens. Sometimes it doesn't shut off properly when I power down, and I get the error screen when it reboots. I swapped out all 4 aftermarket 32GB RAM modules that I purchased from OWC, and it didn't resolve the issue. I updated from Catalina to Big Sur. No dice.

Apple gave me the runaround on phone support. Reinstall the OS, etc. Nothing. Of course I can take it to the genius bar, but I was putting it off due to Covid, and now I'm busy with work and loathe to take the time. I thought I'd check in here to see if anyone might be able to shed some light.

Thanks...


----------



## mscp (May 20, 2021)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> I have the 10 core iMac. I've gotten occasional kernel panics the whole time I've had it (only since Dec 2020) and they seem to be increasing in frequency. They seem to happen randomly, or at at least processor load has no bearing on when it happens. Sometimes it doesn't shut off properly when I power down, and I get the error screen when it reboots. I swapped out all 4 aftermarket 32GB RAM modules that I purchased from OWC, and it didn't resolve the issue. I updated from Catalina to Big Sur. No dice.
> 
> Apple gave me the runaround on phone support. Reinstall the OS, etc. Nothing. Of course I can take it to the genius bar, but I was putting it off due to Covid, and now I'm busy with work and loathe to take the time. I thought I'd check in here to see if anyone might be able to shed some light.
> 
> Thanks...


Are these crashes happening when temps are too high?


----------



## rnb_2 (May 20, 2021)

I encountered a spate of overnight crashes on my 2018 Mac mini (Big Sur) a few weeks ago, and to my great surprise, reinstalling the OS actually seems to have cured them. If you've tried that since the update to Big Sur, it really sounds like hardware (especially with a new machine). Have you tried running Apple Diagnostics?


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (May 20, 2021)

Thanks for the replies.


Phil81 said:


> Are these crashes happening when temps are too high?


They seem to be unrelated to temps. Last kernel panic was yesterday (a fairly cool day in Los Angeles) when I was only running word processing. I actually don't think I've gotten any panics when I've really been slamming the CPU with Cubase or Photoshop and the fans are going.


rnb_2 said:


> I encountered a spate of overnight crashes on my 2018 Mac mini (Big Sur) a few weeks ago, and to my great surprise, reinstalling the OS actually seems to have cured them. If you've tried that since the update to Big Sur, it really sounds like hardware (especially with a new machine). Have you tried running Apple Diagnostics?


I did reinstall since the Big Sur update. Maybe I'll try that once more. Apple Diagnostics found no issues when I ran that.


----------



## mscp (May 20, 2021)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> They seem to be unrelated to temps. Last kernel panic was yesterday (a fairly cool day in Los Angeles) when I was only running word processing. I actually don't think I've gotten any panics when I've really been slamming the CPU with Cubase or Photoshop and the fans are going.
> 
> I did reinstall since the Big Sur update. Maybe I'll try that once more. Apple Diagnostics found no issues when I ran that.


I'm fairly certain it's a hardware issue. If the OS fails to critically talk to one of your mobo components at any point in time, that grey curtain will just come down beautifully to tell you the show's over.

OS self-diagnostics are super flaky and don't work most of the time (Apple/Msoft).


----------



## Tim_Wells (May 20, 2021)

It could be a funky hardware component. I had a stick of RAM go bad on me recently and it brought my whole system down. Took me a couple of days to figure out what it was. Obviously that's not your problem. The Genius-Bar may be your best option.


----------



## studioj (May 20, 2021)

For what it's worth a friend of mine has had a miserable time with the 10 core 2020 iMac… Lots of kernel panics, other kinds of crashes etc. Also got the runaround with Apple support. Swapping out Ram did improve things considerably but it still crashes a lot more than it should for a new Mac.


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (May 20, 2021)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Hopefully the Genius Bar can sort it out. I was using a PC I built that never crashed, but I missed the Mac for a few reasons and took the plunge on this machine to tide me over until they get the new chips sorted out for pro work. If not for the crashes I'd be very pleased with it but...yeesh.


----------



## Jett Hitt (May 20, 2021)

+1 for hardware issues.


----------



## mscp (May 20, 2021)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> Thanks for the feedback everyone. Hopefully the Genius Bar can sort it out. I was using a PC I built that never crashed, but I missed the Mac for a few reasons and took the plunge on this machine to tide me over until they get the new chips sorted out for pro work. If not for the crashes I'd be very pleased with it but...yeesh.


MacOS is awesome. I love the UI and terminal. The way they build their computers though...tragic.


----------



## Elrik Settee (May 20, 2021)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> I have the 10 core iMac. I've gotten occasional kernel panics the whole time I've had it (only since Dec 2020) and they seem to be increasing in frequency. They seem to happen randomly, or at at least processor load has no bearing on when it happens. Sometimes it doesn't shut off properly when I power down, and I get the error screen when it reboots. I swapped out all 4 aftermarket 32GB RAM modules that I purchased from OWC, and it didn't resolve the issue. I updated from Catalina to Big Sur. No dice.
> 
> Apple gave me the runaround on phone support. Reinstall the OS, etc. Nothing. Of course I can take it to the genius bar, but I was putting it off due to Covid, and now I'm busy with work and loathe to take the time. I thought I'd check in here to see if anyone might be able to shed some light.
> 
> Thanks...


I rarely use Apple support but when I have to, I find that the geniuses on the end of the phone are useless. Not quite sure how I get away with it, but I always insist on speaking to a senior technician.

If they give me the palaver about reinstall, safe boot, whatever, I say yes yes, I've been using Macs since 1986, so yes, I've done all that and it didn't work, that's why I'm ringing you. If you haven't any other suggestions that I haven't already tried, yes I've reset the PRAM, the SMC, all that, then please can you put me through to a senior technician.

For some reason, they are all in Cork. Because Apple used to manufacture there, I suppose. 

But they are superb. 

So try to get through to a senior!

Good luck.


----------



## Tim_Wells (May 21, 2021)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> Thanks for the feedback everyone. Hopefully the Genius Bar can sort it out. I was using a PC I built that never crashed, but I missed the Mac for a few reasons and took the plunge on this machine to tide me over until they get the new chips sorted out for pro work. If not for the crashes I'd be very pleased with it but...yeesh.


If I'm not mistaken, I remember when you were selling your PC on the forum. I thought really hard about buying it. I kind of wish I had, since my PC is getting really old and you we're offering a great price.


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (May 21, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> If I'm not mistaken, I remember when you were selling your PC on the forum. I thought really hard about buying it. I kind of wish I had, since my PC is getting really old and you we're offering a great price.


Well, it found a home with another forum member. Maybe I will be selling an iMac soon


----------



## Kent (May 21, 2021)

@Jeremy Gillam I don't know the latest iMac specs—are you by chance using third-party RAM?


----------



## Kent (May 21, 2021)

Oh wait I should read that OP better.

Point being: I once had a series of unexplained issues with a late-2015 iMac (even got a new, identical iMac!) and it was kernel panicking right and left no matter what.

Turns out that that iMac didn't appreciate OWC's RAM. I tried 2 separate sets of RAM cards and neither worked!

Switching to Crucial solved the problem immediately.


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (May 21, 2021)

kmaster said:


> Oh wait I should read that OP better.
> 
> Point being: I once had a series of unexplained issues with a late-2015 iMac (even got a new, identical iMac!) and it was kernel panicking right and left no matter what.
> 
> ...


Geez. Thanks for mentioning that. RAM was my first thought, and like I said above OWC was kind enough to help me swap out the modules I bought from them but it didn't help. Maybe I'll have to try Crucial.


----------



## rnb_2 (May 21, 2021)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> Geez. Thanks for mentioning that. RAM was my first thought, and like I said above OWC was kind enough to help me swap out the modules I bought from them but it didn't help. Maybe I'll have to try Crucial.


Ah, I thought you'd tried it with the stock RAM, but what you can do with that is probably quite limited. Trying a different brand of RAM is probably a good next step if possible.


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (Jun 23, 2021)

Sorry to bump this, but the saga continues... 

I took the iMac in to the Genius Bar a few weeks ago and left it overnight. They ran their diagnostics and told me the only failing component was the RAM (my 128 GB OWC kit.) I ordered another brand of RAM from Amazon (Timetec) and it seemed to resolve the problem for about a week, but then I got a couple kernel panics with it installed. OWC support won't let me return the RAM I bought from them, saying "under Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act the memory would have to be replaced three times for the same issue before it could be deemed a lemon and a refund offered." So they are putting me through the same series of troubleshooting steps I went through with them before I took it to the Apple Store. The latest was to restore some disk permissions via the internet recovery option. I did that with the Timetec RAM installed and it was okay today. 

Tonight when I tried to reinstall my four OWC DIMMs (so I can return the Timetec kit) the computer wouldn't boot. I tried several combinations of slots and eventually got it to boot with only the second from the top slot and the bottom slot installed. When I tried all four DIMMs again it wouldn't boot, so I went back to the two slots mentioned above. It wouldn't boot on the first try, but I fiddled with them and it eventually booted, so at the moment I'm only running with 64GB installed.

Needless to say I'm very frustrated and wondering if I should figure out a way to cut my losses and get rid of this computer. It seems to me that there might be some bad RAM slots. Maybe I can get Apple to replace it, but at this point I feel like nobody can help me get to the bottom of this. Apple blames OWC, OWC blames Apple...

Suggestions welcome.


----------



## Kent (Jun 24, 2021)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> Sorry to bump this, but the saga continues...
> 
> I took the iMac in to the Genius Bar a few weeks ago and left it overnight. They ran their diagnostics and told me the only failing component was the RAM (my 128 GB OWC kit.) I ordered another brand of RAM from Amazon (Timetec) and it seemed to resolve the problem for about a week, but then I got a couple kernel panics with it installed. OWC support won't let me return the RAM I bought from them, saying "under Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act the memory would have to be replaced three times for the same issue before it could be deemed a lemon and a refund offered." So they are putting me through the same series of troubleshooting steps I went through with them before I took it to the Apple Store. The latest was to restore some disk permissions via the internet recovery option. I did that with the Timetec RAM installed and it was okay today.
> 
> ...


Have you tried Crucial yet?


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (Jun 24, 2021)

kmaster said:


> Have you tried Crucial yet?


Ah I was going to go for crucial but I couldn’t find any 128gb kits! Seems like there’s a supply shortage.


----------



## Tom_D (Jun 24, 2021)

I also have an OWC RAM kit for my Early 2008 MacPro (which I'm still using ). One pair of the RAM sticks caused an issue with a blank screen on startup and flashing power light. I removed the RAM pairs one by one to find the offending set, and ever since I took it out the computer has been OK. I even got a replacement for those faulty RAM sticks from OWC under warranty, but after a few weeks the computer started showing errors again until I took the new sticks out. I basically just left them out from that time on, as I'm not sure if it's the OWC RAM causing the issue or those specific RAM slots or something else. Basically I've just been living with a bit less RAM in this machine rather than fight it.


----------



## rnb_2 (Jun 24, 2021)

Given what OWC told you, I'd try getting them to replace some or all of the RAM you have. If you don't get a set that works properly, eventually they'll have to refund you.

Also, it appears that B&H has Crucial RAM in stock - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1600342-REG/crucial_ct2k32g4sfd8266_2_32gb_ddr4_2666_sodimm_1_2v.html (here's a 2x32GB kit).


----------



## Symfoniq (Jun 24, 2021)

This sounds like a hardware defect.

I have a couple of self-built PCs that never crash. I also have a few Macs (including a 2019 Mac Pro) that never crash. You shouldn’t have to put up with this.

Back in the day, I had a MacBook Pro that *did* consistently crash. Apple couldn’t find anything wrong with it. I had to be very persistent for them to give me a new one. My advice is don’t back down.


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (Jun 24, 2021)

Thanks everyone. I'm going to go through the replacement song and dance once more with OWC. I'll try to get onto level 2 support with Apple as well.

@Symfoniq - my last computer was a PC I built myself that never crashed, so you can imagine my chagrin about this going on for so long without a resolution!


----------



## rnb_2 (Jun 24, 2021)

I feel for you going through this - really shouldn't happen. I had a bad OWC stick several years ago - I think it was with the original 2009 27" iMac. They sent a replacement very quickly and it worked fine after.

At the very least, if another set from OWC doesn't fix the problem, you'll have more data to give to Apple and hopefully get to the bottom of things that way.


----------



## Zedcars (Jun 24, 2021)

Have you run the memory diagnostics yourself?

If you hold down D (might have to use a wired keyboard) on restart you’ll get to Diagnostics and can run the memory test from there.

You could also test the RAM with Rember:








Kelley Computing


Portland area Mac IT, Onsite and Consulting Services; Software and Scripts for iOS and OS X



www.kelleycomputing.net


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (Jun 24, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> Have you run the memory diagnostics yourself?
> 
> If you hold down D (might have to use a wired keyboard) on restart you’ll get to Diagnostics and can run the memory test from there.
> 
> ...


I've run Rember maybe 10-15 times, mostly on the different sets of OWC RAM which sometimes passed and sometimes failed, and a handful of times with the Timetec RAM which always passed.


----------



## studioj (Jun 24, 2021)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> Sorry to bump this, but the saga continues...
> 
> I took the iMac in to the Genius Bar a few weeks ago and left it overnight. They ran their diagnostics and told me the only failing component was the RAM (my 128 GB OWC kit.) I ordered another brand of RAM from Amazon (Timetec) and it seemed to resolve the problem for about a week, but then I got a couple kernel panics with it installed. OWC support won't let me return the RAM I bought from them, saying "under Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act the memory would have to be replaced three times for the same issue before it could be deemed a lemon and a refund offered." So they are putting me through the same series of troubleshooting steps I went through with them before I took it to the Apple Store. The latest was to restore some disk permissions via the internet recovery option. I did that with the Timetec RAM installed and it was okay today.
> 
> ...


This sounds almost identical to what a friend of mine went through. In the end we -mostly- solved it by replacing a single stick of the OWC RAM... and found the unfriendly stick through rigorous testing on multiple combinations of the sticks, just like you did. Apple support was basically useless and suggested pretty much everything except for this (nothing worked that they suggested). the system is much more stable now after replacing that one stick (keep in mind all the RAM passed diagnostics)... the system is not perfect though and still has a kernel panic every now and then. But before it was panicking anywhere from every 5 to 30 minutes at times. I think some of these machines are just not too friendly with maxed out with OWC / 3rd party, or there is a defect with the slots that causes these problems with certain sticks of RAM. hard to say! Having seen what he went through I would probably tell people to avoid this particular iMac.


----------



## Zedcars (Jun 24, 2021)

I thought memory had to be installed in matched pairs though. I didn’t think it was wise to mix and match different manufacturers’ sticks together.

I really hope you get it sorted. I can imagine this sort of thing is enough to put you off Macs for life.


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (Jun 24, 2021)

studioj said:


> This sounds almost identical to what a friend of mine went through. In the end we -mostly- solved it by replacing a single stick of the OWC RAM... and found the unfriendly stick through rigorous testing on multiple combinations of the sticks, just like you did. Apple support was basically useless and suggested pretty much everything except for this (nothing worked that they suggested). the system is much more stable now after replacing that one stick (keep in mind all the RAM passed diagnostics)... the system is not perfect though and still has a kernel panic every now and then. But before it was panicking anywhere from every 5 to 30 minutes at times. I think some of these machines are just not too friendly with maxed out with OWC / 3rd party, or there is a defect with the slots that causes these problems with certain sticks of RAM. hard to say! Having seen what he went through I would probably tell people to avoid this particular iMac.


Thanks for your post. This is my fear — that even if I can get Apple to replace the computer it might not solve the issue entirely. A kernel panic once in a blue moon isn't the end of the world, but it's exactly what you hope to avoid when you pay the premium for a Mac.


----------



## ka00 (Jul 18, 2021)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> I have the 10 core iMac. I've gotten occasional kernel panics the whole time I've had it (only since Dec 2020) and they seem to be increasing in frequency. They seem to happen randomly, or at at least processor load has no bearing on when it happens. Sometimes it doesn't shut off properly when I power down, and I get the error screen when it reboots. I swapped out all 4 aftermarket 32GB RAM modules that I purchased from OWC, and it didn't resolve the issue. I updated from Catalina to Big Sur. No dice.
> 
> Apple gave me the runaround on phone support. Reinstall the OS, etc. Nothing. Of course I can take it to the genius bar, but I was putting it off due to Covid, and now I'm busy with work and loathe to take the time. I thought I'd check in here to see if anyone might be able to shed some light.
> 
> Thanks...


FYI, I have the 8-core version of this iMac.
Also bought in Dec 2020.
Also bought 128GB of RAM from OWC.
Got kernel panics frequently.
Realized it happened less if all slots weren't full.
Also went through the process of replacing for all four sticks through OWC's replacement policy.
With replaced RAM, crashes happen less frequently, but still happen. Which is why I'm back to searching the internet for similar stories in search of a solution.
Very frustrating.

Edit: two full kernel panics in the last 30 minutes. I will try pulling out one stick.


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (Jul 18, 2021)

Mine has been okay since I got the latest round of replacement sticks from OWC about two weeks ago. I'm using all 4 slots. But who knows.


ka00 said:


> FYI, I have the 8-core version of this iMac.
> Also bought in Dec 2020.
> Also bought 128GB of RAM from OWC.
> Got kernel panics frequently.
> ...


You might try replacing them all again with OWC. If you go through 3 replacements and the issue persists you could get a refund (under lemon law) and try another brand like Crucial. I feel for you, this kind of absurdity is exactly what you hope to avoid when buying a new Mac.


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (Jul 18, 2021)

ka00 said:


> Thanks, Jeremy. Keep us posted how your system performs as time goes by. You don't have any OWC in your system anymore?
> 
> I temporarily thought the replacement cured my issues. I don't know if what's cropping up is something like a heat issue with this particular RAM when all four slots are full (just a wild guess) or some other reason. But it seems more stable when it's just three slots full at random, with three sticks picked also at random. But when all four are together, that's when the trouble starts.
> 
> ...


I'm still using OWC. I tried a different brand (Timetec) but it didn't work out. OWC paid for shipping the second time I had to replace with them. I'll post any updates as they happen.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 22, 2021)

Just a thought....but maybe try just putting the Apple Ram back in (you probably just have 8GB) and see if it happens. If it doesn't, then you know it's a Ram issue. If it does crash, then you have some ammo for taking the iMac back to Apple for a replacement.


----------



## gpax (Jul 22, 2021)

Tom_D said:


> I also have an OWC RAM kit for my Early 2008 MacPro (which I'm still using ). One pair of the RAM sticks caused an issue with a blank screen on startup and flashing power light. I removed the RAM pairs one by one to find the offending set, and ever since I took it out the computer has been OK. I even got a replacement for those faulty RAM sticks from OWC under warranty, but after a few weeks the computer started showing errors again until I took the new sticks out. I basically just left them out from that time on, as I'm not sure if it's the OWC RAM causing the issue or those specific RAM slots or something else. Basically I've just been living with a bit less RAM in this machine rather than fight it.


I was literally recalling the exact scenario on my 2008 Mac Pro. I methodically paired various combinations of sticks (including with the Apple Ram to have enough to test with) to pinpoint the faulty hardware. Ended up using less for years until a new Mac in 2015. I’m on a 2019 iMac now, and still using OWC (64 gb) so clearly I got a bit of confidence back.


----------



## gpax (Jul 22, 2021)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> I'm still using OWC. I tried a different brand (Timetec) but it didn't work out. OWC paid for shipping the second time I had to replace with them. I'll post any updates as they happen.


I’m curious if there is a potential pattern emerging, as it seems others are reporting issues with select configurations of the 2020 iMac and OWC sticks. Did anyone else get this impression? A faulty manufacturing run is not entirely out of the question. 

I’ve had all kinds of weirdness from things ordered, replaced and defective this past lockdown year. I’ve made less sense as a person as well, lol. 

Given you haven’t reported issues in a few weeks, please do let us know if you think the saga is over. These kinds of discussions definitely can help point to potential patterns, and benefit others with similar setups.


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (Jul 22, 2021)

It's been about 3 weeks since I installed the 3rd round of modules from OWC and I haven't had any panics during that stretch. I don't want to jinx it, but it seems to be resolved.

From what others have reported there does seem to be a pattern with iMacs and RAM expansion, particularly with OWC memory. But it's hard to say if RAM manufacturers or Apple are to blame. Of course Apple won't take any responsibility for 3rd party RAM. This whole saga in addition to a recent fiasco with Time Machine really put me off from buying another Mac.


----------



## Symfoniq (Jul 22, 2021)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> It's been about 3 weeks since I installed the 3rd round of modules from OWC and I haven't had any panics during that stretch. I don't want to jinx it, but it seems to be resolved.
> 
> From what others have reported there does seem to be a pattern with iMacs and RAM expansion, particularly with OWC memory. But it's hard to say if RAM manufacturers or Apple are to blame. Of course Apple won't take any responsibility for 3rd party RAM. This whole saga in addition to a recent fiasco with Time Machine really put me off from buying another Mac.


I'm glad you seem to have gotten the RAM problem sorted.

I hear you on Time Machine. I can't go more than a year or two without having to do a complete volume rebuild (the Time Machine backup becomes corrupted). I don't really trust Time Machine these days, so I use Carbon Copy Cloner, which is as fantastic as Time Machine is frustrating.


----------



## rnb_2 (Jul 22, 2021)

Symfoniq said:


> I'm glad you seem to have gotten the RAM problem sorted.
> 
> I hear you on Time Machine. I can't go more than a year or two without having to do a complete volume rebuild (the Time Machine backup becomes corrupted). I don't really trust Time Machine these days, so I use Carbon Copy Cloner, which is as fantastic as Time Machine is frustrating.


+1000 to this - I've relied on Carbon Copy Cloner for years, and it's been fantastic. It scales from very basic (back up this one drive to this other drive) to very complex (back up this drive when I connect this backup drive, then back up this volume to this folder (but ignore these subfolders), then back up this third volume, and also remind me when I haven't run the backup job in over two weeks).

I haven't used Time Machine in several years, mainly because my existing backups work so well. The current version of Carbon Copy Cloner can work very much like Time Machine (with versioning, etc) if you need that, as well.


----------



## Paulogic (Jul 22, 2021)

Ram is crucial for Mac's, they use Kingston but charge way to much for memory expansions.
So buy the same type of Kingston memory and run without any trouble.
At least that is what I've done with all my Mac's (iMac, Mini,...) and also do for the iMacs
of my customers. Haven't had a RAM issue in decades. (Really, no joking or bragging).
But this applies to Windows machines also : Kingston is a proven quality label for RAM,
and I'm glad I always use or advise to use this brand. Keeps me and my clients happy...


----------



## Symfoniq (Jul 23, 2021)

Paulogic said:


> Ram is crucial for Mac's, they use Kingston but charge way to much for memory expansions.
> So buy the same type of Kingston memory and run without any trouble.
> At least that is what I've done with all my Mac's (iMac, Mini,...) and also do for the iMacs
> of my customers. Haven't had a RAM issue in decades. (Really, no joking or bragging).
> ...


Kingston sells good RAM, but Apple does not source their memory from Kingston.


----------



## ka00 (Aug 12, 2021)

Just an update after installing my third set of 128GB RAM from OWC (have done two full replacements): was able to create a kernel panic within five minutes of running Studio One. I’m beyond fed up.


----------



## Kent (Aug 12, 2021)

ka00 said:


> Just an update after installing my third set of 128GB RAM from OWC (have done two full replacements): was able to create a kernel panic within five minutes of running Studio One. I’m beyond fed up.


Sounds familiar!


----------



## rnb_2 (Aug 12, 2021)

ka00 said:


> Just an update after installing my third set of 128GB RAM from OWC (have done two full replacements): was able to create a kernel panic within five minutes of running Studio One. I’m beyond fed up.


Well, I think that makes you eligible for a refund from OWC. Crazy situation though - I haven't heard of anything like this with earlier models, so I don't know if it's something different in the iMac or the RAM supplier (the latter seems more likely).


----------



## ka00 (Aug 13, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> Well, I think that makes you eligible for a refund from OWC. Crazy situation though - I haven't heard of anything like this with earlier models, so I don't know if it's something different in the iMac or the RAM supplier (the latter seems more likely).


Thanks, OWC did agree to give me a refund and I’ve now shipped back their RAM and instead have ordered from Crucial. Hopefully this will sort me out. I assume at this point that it’s a design defect in the RAM that affects proper compatibility when all slots are fully loaded, rather than bad luck with three separate sets of RAM.

I had bought from Crucial for my previous iMac and had no issues with their RAM.


----------



## IFM (Aug 13, 2021)

ka00 said:


> Thanks, OWC did agree to give me a refund and I’ve now shipped back their RAM and instead have ordered from Crucial. Hopefully this will sort me out. I assume at this point that it’s a design defect in the RAM that affects proper compatibility when all slots are fully loaded, rather than bad luck with three separate sets of RAM.
> 
> I had bought from Crucial for my previous iMac and had no issues with their RAM.


Ya I have a set of RAM from them fail in the first 3 months. 2nd set I ignored the instructions for using the factory rubber piece that separates the chips thinking they were just overheating. Been fine ever since. I have a set of 16gb chips though that had better heat sinks I might downgrade too since the machine is only now going to get used for Waves LV1.


----------



## Ukena (Aug 14, 2021)

I spent almost 20 years as an independent Macintosh support person, with over 1,000 private and corporate clients. I have seen firsthand what can go wrong with any number of "foolproof" redundant backup systems (unfortunately, including one that I recommended and set up myself – fortunately, I lucked into discovering a recovery protocol. As my tech partner often said, better to be lucky than smart).

I would never use TimeMachine as my only backup, nor even my most important backup. I have a MacMini 2020 with 1TB internal (the system & apps, all the most important files, and stuff I'm working on currently) with >200GB free; a 3TB external (my huge iTunes library, my photo library, my Final Cut libraries (except the current one), and all archives) with 420GB free; and a 1TB external for samples with 150GB free.

I have two clones of both my internal and 3TB external at home, and another of each offsite (I use both Carbon Copy Cloner and SuperDuper! for backup, although I tend to use CCC more). The Samples disk currently only has one backup (I use the backup with my M1 laptop, along with a portable 2TB drive with most of the 3TB data on it), but it will also get a third backup soon.

I have a 4TB external drive that has my TimeMachine backup on it. It goes back to Dec. 2020, when I bought the Mini. I start TM over again for a new machine. What it is invaluable for: recovering files I have accidentally deleted, or files I changed without making a duplicate (sometimes months later). I have also, on occasion, populated a clean installation with data from a TM backup, because sometimes Migration Assistant uses TM faster than a bootable clone. I have not had a corruption of a TM disk for several years.

Kernel panics and freezes, in these days of modern times, can often be caused by third party kernels and extensions that have perpetuated themselves in the system through many updates. These pesky things are hard to find, and really the only way to find out if that's the problem is to see how the machine acts with a clean new system with nothing restored from the previous system, adding your necessary-for-work Apps one at a time. It is much harder to troubleshoot these things now, since it's almost impossible to boot a Mac from an external drive (and worse on an M1 Mac), and nobody hates erasing the internal drive and reinstalling a system more than I do. But sometimes that's the only way to tell if it's hardware or software.


----------



## synthnut1 (Aug 15, 2021)

I’m only running 64gb of ram in my iMac and knock on wood it’s running ok...I have been thinking about maxing it out to 128gb, but now skeptical...Makes me wish that I built a new PC instead....Mac’s just aren’t what they use to be ...


----------



## ka00 (Aug 20, 2021)

Another update. Three days with Crucial RAM instead of OWC. So far, zero issues, even after running torture tests. That was eight months of computer hell (kernel panics, diagnosing, speculating, testing, on the phone with apple, emails to OWC, multiple returns, multiple UPS drop offs, etc.) I won't soon forget.


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (Aug 20, 2021)

Glad you got some improvement ka00. I got my first panic in a month or so the other day with OWC RAM. If it happens again I'm going to send it back. Ugh.


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (Aug 20, 2021)

ka00 said:


> Sorry to hear that, Jeremy. It's very annoying to have to deal with. I don't recall, did you also notice that there are no panics if you only install three DIMMs instead of all four? I mentioned that multiple times to OWC and they never indicated that was a known issue for them. If they know it's an issue, they didn't admit it to me.


I’ve sort of avoided testing that in depth. At one point I was having trouble getting it to boot and went down to 2 sticks but pretty quickly went back to 4. If it persists I might try with 3.


----------

