# Getting older... Not getting any more successful.



## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 3, 2015)

ugh. Sorry this is kind of a dnm with myself and this foum

So I am 26 and somewhat of a late bloomer into my music composition passion. As of now I am still living at home. I was studying at uni but my school went bankrupt and the quality of the course suffered so I decided to pull out, buy loads of books and partake in personal study. 

I had purposefully pulled back from pushing myself as a business as I wanted to really study and understand music. (young me set out to the big city only to realise I had so much more to learn. It's around this time I packed up and headed back home). To my credit, in the span of a few years I went from not knowing the names of the keys on the keyboard to writing music with complex modulations, augmented sixth chords, a (somewhat) profound understanding of the orchestra and playing techniques and such. 

I guess right now I am still at a point where I want to take it slow and study more but I feel (or possibly am projecting) pressure from my parents and, well, society to be more successful than I am.

Part of this stress I think is that where I live, the economy is not great and hospitality/retail jobs are getting harder to come by. I imagine that 1 day I will not have the ability to feed myself or worse, not be able to compose music and that is a frightening thought (I jest..kinda). 

All I really care about is to be able to write music. If I can feed myself, and sustain my writing I would be happy. 

Just wanted to share my thoughts.


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## Daryl (Jul 3, 2015)

Don't let someone else, especially your parents, dictate the definition of success. Only you can know what you need from life, and you need to do whatever it takes to get there.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 3, 2015)

Daryl said:


> Don't let someone else, especially your parents, dictate the definition of success. Only you can know what you need from life, and you need to do whatever it takes to get there.



+1. Live your own life and ignore the noise.


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## Jaap (Jul 3, 2015)

Sometimes there can be a lot of noise, but always try to keep your goal in mind. However do not give up if things are tough for a while. Life can be a bitch sometimes and there is totally no shame involved if you don't manage to live from your music for a while. Just don't give up and keep a focus on your goal and let all the difficult things be a motivation to work harder.
Maybe you think, "right dude, easy words", but I have been in some very horrible situations in the last couple of years that made my life almost impossible and also managed to pick up things again (though with pain and not as fully as I always want).


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## Markus S (Jul 3, 2015)

Maybe a bit of a different approach here : If you want to be successful, don't focus too much on the music. Focus on the business side of things, especially meeting people. You could be the world's best composer and still not have a job.

Also there is a simple luck factor to all of this. An important luck factor. So don't be too hard on yourself - no luck, no success. But as said before success also is a relative thing.


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## tokatila (Jul 3, 2015)

Markus S said:


> Maybe a bit of a different approach here : If you want to be successful, don't focus too much on the music. Focus on the business side of things, especially meeting people. You could be the world's best composer and still not have a job.
> 
> Also there is a simple luck factor to all of this. An important luck factor. So don't be too hard on yourself - no luck, no success. But as said before success also is a relative thing.



What is successful? One needs to define that first...


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## Markus S (Jul 3, 2015)

tokatila said:


> What is successful? One needs to define that first...



As I said it's a relative thing. The way I read it making a living writing music is the aim of the OP.


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jul 3, 2015)

As for measuring your success by age, especially compared to other musicians/composers, that way lies madness. Some composers get their break early on, while others see no 'major' success until they're past 50. I have a couple of friends who are hung up on this sort of comparison neurosis and it can be crushing.

The 'sensible job' versus creative/fulfilling endeavour (not that they're necessarily mutually exclusive) is something I've seen most of my music and film peers go through, myself included. And whilst I'm happy I made the decision that I _needed_ to go full-on with music and it's working out for me, I don't think choosing a more steady sensible job would've been a failure, per se. 
It's a really tough thing to think about though, but I'm sure many people here will have some words of wisdom. 

If the pressure is just social, sod 'em. Do whatever the hell you want to do. If the pressure is financial and practical, then perhaps taking a 'normal' job for the time being would be a good call.


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## rgames (Jul 3, 2015)

26 is not "Getting Older" !!!

You're in the middle of your "Figure it out" decade. That's perfectly fine. The ONLY thing you need to worry about right now is staying out of debt because that can ruin your life when you do figure it out.

The good news is you have one critical element that will aid your success in whatever you do: foresight. The fact that you can imagine a future (in this case, one you want to avoid) and elicit an emotional response is a huge step in the right direction. Foresight is a precursor to ambition; ambition is a precursor to success. So you've started on the path to success.

I would recommend moving out of your parents' place, though. Not having food in the fridge is a pretty good way to increase your ambition 

Good parents will put pressure on you. It can be overdone, yes, and that certainly could be the case for you (in which case moving out is an even bigger plus). But they (probably) want you to be successful so they're (probably) trying to help you out.

Don't fret it at age 26. It's all good 

rgames


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## Waywyn (Jul 3, 2015)

Just as a little side note. When I finished my guitar studying time in Los Angeles I could play the weirdest shit. My teachers also called me something like little Holdsworth and all that stuff to be proud of. I ate oddmeter for breakfast and I could sightread the shit out of etudes and the realbook!

Anyway, fast forward a few years later I can tell you that if you want to make a living from music you probably will NOT need 80% of what you have learned and studied! You have to remember that most of the time (if not always) you are not composing for other composers but for "normal" people!

... and to be serious, if you still live at home, your parents surely DO have a right to put a bit of pressure on you! However, it is great to have tolerant parents and who will support you because it is just difficult to get your feet in the bizz!

My little advice would be to train other things now! Communication, self awareness in the business world, a little bit of a concept and be able to calculate and all that tax stuff! Augmented 6th chords won't pay your rent!


Believe me, I have been there with my artistry playing and I wanted to show the world what I achieved and what I can do ... and everyone listen to the magnificent shred, oddmeter, mysterious scales and chords Alex!!! ... but these things don't sell! Once you made enough money to back out for a few years you can still compose your own masterpiece and put to test all the things you achieved!

Otherwise of course it could workout that you become famous, successful or whatever with your very own music ... but be sure to have savings on your account for the next 10-20 years!


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## NYC Composer (Jul 3, 2015)

Markus S said:


> Maybe a bit of a different approach here : If you want to be successful, don't focus too much on the music. Focus on the business side of things, especially meeting people. You could be the world's best composer and still not have a job.
> 
> Also there is a simple luck factor to all of this. An important luck factor. So don't be too hard on yourself - no luck, no success. But as said before success also is a relative thing.



So true. Enduring relationships with clients are one of the most important things in this game.


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## Hannes_F (Jul 3, 2015)

This is what I have found:
If you want to express yourself in the world of today then better bring money with you (but wait, read to the end). Why? Because you will always need help from others for the realisation: help on form of cooperations, help in form of services, help in form of tools. And then, if you have that help, and in the case that you are good _and _hitting a nerve with your style then you might earn money with it, perhaps much more than you ever invested. But there is no warranty for that earning phase.

On the other hand if _you help others_ to realize their visions then _you _can earn. Because now it is _you _who is doing a service to others that want to express themselves. So you need to figure out what service it is that you perhaps can do and that is valuable to others. However, while chances are better here to earn, at least a little something, there is no warranty for that too, and also now it is you doing service and not you self-expressing 100% yourself as an artist anymore.

I think that most people that do music for a living oscillate between those two poles. You need some projects where you have your service hat on or else your body starves. And you need those projects where you have your artist hat on or your soul starves. It is good if you always can have some element from the other side in each project and some even manage to have it all in one (congratulations), but for most I think it is an oscillation.

=======

The other thing that I believe in is this (but again it is a very subjective opinion): If you want to live the life of an artist then there is actually no _'trying'_. I mean this 'trying' in the sense of "hmm ... let me try this, maybe I have success here ... no, ok, then I try this, maybe this works better" and so on. This approach does rarely have success. At least in my experience there are only valid options: _doing _or _not doing. _You know what I mean? What I mean is: If you decide to do, then _do!_ Don't _try, _instead _do!_

That does not mean that working halftime in a regular job and halftime in music is a bad idea - in some situations it is an excellent idea actually. But in the time you have your music hat on there is only doing or not doing, not 'trying'.

All of that may be totally different for others, but for me it proved to be the 2 c I can offer.


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## rayinstirling (Jul 3, 2015)

I envy the young for being young but certainly not towards trying to make it in the present music scene.
Town Halls featuring tribute bands where the tribute is that of being nearly as old as the original acts 
but.............I would still think performing music is the only way forward. Anybody can record it.
Get out and do it!


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## José Herring (Jul 3, 2015)

If you want to make money doing music you have entered the world of the practical musician. And while learning music theory is admirable for your own composing skill and edification it's not really a skill people are willing to pay for. 

I probably keep in mind far too often that the most successful musicians these days, don't have a lick of schooling in music. What they can do is work the gear. Most can't even play an instrument these days. Sad but that's where it's at. 

If I were 26 all over again, I'd concentrate 100% of my time learning every piece of music software and hardware I could. The more you know the more valuable you'll be to other composers. Get a gig as an assistant with an already established composer and then work that system. If you want to go it alone then include phone sales in your skill. Get a job doing that for a while. I'm not kidding either.

In the end, there are so many pitfalls in classical training these days that it has taken me until just a few months ago at the age of 47 to find what they are and eradicate that knowledge as thoroughly as possible. What we learned in school either by design or by just years of people misunderstanding the actual theory of music has become so useless that they shouldn't even be teaching it any more. It will actually block your ability to compose creatively.

Just the fact that you mentioned the Neapolitan ice cream....I mean 6th chord already shows that you've bought into some of the school misinformation. 

I leave with this which will piss some people off to no end, but of which I have now final confirmation for. Counterpoint and its rules and music theory the way it is taught in schools is and was even when it was invented only meant for vocal music accompanied by organ or instruments for the church mass. I wish I could repeat that all in caps. Whole schools of musical thought have cropped up around that misunderstanding either in favor or opposed all of which are inadequate to create music that actually captures the public's attention which is what you need to do in order to sell music. Or at least get some filmmakers attention.

Believe it or not to make a living the music theory that you actually need to know are the scales and what chord belongs on what step. Everything else is just gravy for your own amusement. And those rules of counterpoint and music theory that were crammed down our throats to no end, put them in the wastebasket
.
Long winded way of saying put down the theory books and pick up the manuals to your gear and other gear that you can find. Practice that like a fiddle and get a job at a studio.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 3, 2015)

Thanks so much for the encouragement guys. It truly does mean a lot.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 3, 2015)

26, older? I have sox older than you, Simon, OP, and what is sad is that I still wear them. 

You have time to succeed, but yes you do need to get out of your parents house first. You will never feel like an adult living there.


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## Carles (Jul 4, 2015)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> So I am 26


Older? are you kidding me?
I'm 45, feeding wife and two children, with a successful job not related to music.
I had some musical activity when I was teenager, but spent around 20 years out of the musical game.
Around 42, I've re-started my musical activity, and now I have hope that in one or another way, some day I'll be able to leave my job and write music full time.
Is it easy? not at all, even less in my circumstance, but I don't go to give up that soon. The best I can do is to work hard and learn more. Hopeless attitude? never. If there is a chance, let's say one per million but any, then I go for it. I love music too much as for giving up so easily.


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## Daniel James (Jul 4, 2015)

If you are planning to make a living out of music, these days you have to focus on writing for the people who have a legal obligation to pay for it. Films/trailers/tv/games etc. These people have to pay you money to use your music, if they don't there are legal issues they would rather not deal with.

There is no real money in album or song sales these days unless you are a global hit who attracts millions of listens per day. Performing music can make some money but again to be anything substantial you need to either have a large following or be an in demand session player.

-DJ


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## dpasdernick (Jul 4, 2015)

Daniel,

A couple of thoughts. You can't complain about your parents pressuring you when you live in their house. They most likely see your talent but are nervous as hell whether you will 'make it" and all a parent wants is to know their kids are going to be OK on their own. 

You're also looking to make a living in a field that is very saturated because guys like me, with less talent than you, are competing for whatever paying work is out there. I have a very decent day job which affords me the luxury of having money to buy musical instruments but I also have kids and a mortgage and retirement plans to contribute to. This is the hard reality of life. 

I hardly ever write music for money so this allows me to write whatever I feel like which is the ultimate artistic expression I suppose. Once you start getting paid to write I guarantee your client's daughter will tell him "it doesn't sound like One Direction" and you may start not loving it as much. (this happened to me with 3D animation) Once you start getting paid for your art it ceases to be yours.

You're a talented guy with age on your side. 26 is not old but i used to dwell on this as well. David Bowie had Ziggy Stardust under his belt by 25. I was playing drums in a cover band at 25 and starving...

One last thing. Once you have a family things will change dramatically so just "say no" to the hotties and keep focusing on the music. (you can send the hotties my way, I promise to take good care of them) 

Best of luck Daniel,

Darren


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## jacobthestupendous (Jul 7, 2015)

At 26, you're (probably) too old to make it as a pop star, but you're a little baby in the composer-for-hire biz. Focus on learning the tools of the trade, and immerse yourself in what you want to be able to produce so that you have an intuitive understanding of it; music needs to be a feeling thing more than a thinking thing. Also, it matters _hugely_ who you know and who knows you. Put yourself in places where people you want to know are, especially if you aren't already rooted somewhere.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 7, 2015)

_To my credit, in the span of a few years I went from not knowing the names of the keys on the keyboard to writing music with complex modulations, augmented sixth chords, a (somewhat) profound understanding of the orchestra and playing techniques and such._

That's good!

_All I really care about is to be able to write music.
_
That's good too!

Terry Huud was quoted once as saying that it took him 10 years until he "made it". For other guys, it doesn't take as long; others it takes longer.

You may not realize it, but you are in a good position.

1. You don't have to pay rent/mortgage, and do not (I guess?) have any serious finacial burden
2. You have your youth
3. You know what you want to do

I am sure there are at least a few forum members who right now are green with envy.

Have you considered submitting some music to some libs? Maybe try that and see where it takes you. It will be a couple of years before you start seeing a worthwhile return (unless you are extremely lucky, in which case it will be 7-8 mos.) But it might be worth it - if your music is good enough.

Also do this: write every day. At least a little. You dont need to finish everything, but write _something_. This will help more than you know.

Good luck.


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## sherief83 (Jul 7, 2015)

I can't add any thing more to what was mentioned already here. all great advice and you are young indeed! I'm 31 my self and still dreaming and hoping every day something will open up. a lot of doors closed for me brutally but many new ones open when you keep the hope alive. one thing for sure, let go of all that age race pressure crap, that is pointless in the music world, what it really is about, is the style of music you have dedicated your self too and how you will accomplish it, what kind of knowledge do you need to gain to accomplish it really. that in it self is your life time journey and story, don't be fooled by so and so was able to write such a great piece while young. it never is about their age but about their knowledge and what and how they reached it to accomplish the writing they are praised for.

Each one of us has their own style and we dedicate our self to our own take of music, our own take of music is unique and has a requirement. some of us will accomplish those requirements young and some of us will take years and years until we reach maturity to accomplish that mastery we dream of. thats what you need to fully focus on. what does your music require to reach its mastery. now take the age limit out and do what your music actually requires.

My advice is to find a job if you haven't already, find the means to feed your self, if you believe in your art. then fight for it and keep the hope alive. Your job will never conflict with your dreams really. if anything it will inspire you to organize your time for music and job and to learn how to write faster and more efficient. these limits teach you greatness.

just my 2 cents.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 7, 2015)

I really wouldn't stress myself over age. You still have all the liberties and opportunities at 26. I went to university at age 30 and just recently finished. If you're already freaking out, what am I supposed to do? 

Lots of good things have been said in this thread already. I would only like to add: there's always gonna be someone to question your age, your heritage, your ideas, your trade, whatever. That's kind of what life is - a bunch of people and instances doing their best to discourage you, tell you what to do and that this and that wasn't possible, and you finding your way around that.

Creeping fear and doubts aren't good companions for the type of craft and career path you're pursuing, even though they're most certainly always a part of it. I would try to minimize that. And the best way to do that is to start moving. Seek opportunities for meeting people and working on projects - it's not really about the money at this point, it's more about becoming active in practical things and creating something to work with against the inertia that produces doubt and fear.


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## Christof (Jul 7, 2015)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> So I am 26 and somewhat of a late bloomer into my music composition passion.


Don't worry.I wrote my first orchestral piece at the age of 38, and that was not so long ago.
In my opinion clients have more confidence in "older" composers because they seem to have more experience.
In this profession it is never too late compared to sports for example.


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## Dean (Jul 8, 2015)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> ugh. Sorry this is kind of a dnm with myself and this foum
> 
> So I am 26 and somewhat of a late bloomer into my music composition passion. As of now I am still living at home. I was studying at uni but my school went bankrupt and the quality of the course suffered so I decided to pull out, buy loads of books and partake in personal study.
> 
> ...



I actually think its healthy to be nervous,(actually you should be nervous if you're not nervous  )..use it in your music!...most composers/musicians write their best music when they're on the edge and full of angst. Musically I would say forget the books sometimes and just write,really push yourself,dig deep just compose music that really moves you,..try a trailer cue,film cue,electronic,whatever. If you really,really want this badly enough you'll do whatever you have to to make it happen,..ignore all advice,(mine too!  ),go with your instincts,..forget what the other guys are doing and do your own thing.

Keep writing,revising,writing and improving..play around and have fun with it.When you feel you reallly have some great music written and something to say then try to get their attention,..thats the hardest part but its a lot easier to get your foot in the door if you have some amazing music(plus a huge set of brass balls and relentless self belief!)D


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jul 8, 2015)

Start exploring the use of artificial intelligence, how you can eventually use it as a digital assistant. That way, you'll be way ahead of the game when most of us are freaking out in 10 years.


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## Valérie_D (Jul 8, 2015)

Haha, when I stumbled on this post, I was sure that I was going to read someone's post in their fifties.

I feel you, I'm 33 years old and am getting younger everyday : I don't think of success, which is abstract, I don't think of my ego, of what other people think, of pressure I thought other people put on me but who really was me who put pressure on myself with tihs obsessive idea of ''making it'' as a composer and what it implied..without realising that the idea I had of being a film composer especially, was from another era. Now, I compose everyday, and polished my phone skills, as well as my daw and hardware skills. Everything overlaps and can help you write better music faster, while you're in touch with the right people.

I never felt so old in my life between 27 and 31 years old (shudders). I had this idea of a linear life line School + passion = success. It's not. Success is also working with great people, even on small projects, and doing what you love. Focus on today and take care of yourself too.


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## kmlandre (Jul 8, 2015)

Valérie_D said:


> I was sure that I was going to read someone's post in their fifties.



OI!!! AND WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?!?!?

(sniff, sniff, buries his face in his hands and sobs quietly) 

Kurt


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## Valérie_D (Jul 8, 2015)

Haha, Absolutly nothing! It's just that for me, getting older, means that you've been a it for 30 years


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## Desire Inspires (Oct 21, 2016)

Daryl said:


> Don't let someone else, especially your parents, dictate the definition of success. Only you can know what you need from life, and you need to do whatever it takes to get there.



I totally disagree.

If you are living with your parents or under anybody else's house, they dictate the rules. If you want to be successful, get a job, get your own house, and set your own rules.

It gets hard to read how much irresponsible advice is given when it comes to pursuing a career in music. If a person cannot afford to house, clothe, or feed himself without help, he should not be concerned with a career in music. Period!

Get the other stuff in your life in order first. A career in music is a hard, long, and painful struggle for most. Passion alone does not pay the bills or even help to live a better life.

I read these message boards all of the time. People struggle to pay bills and have stability in their lives and then go into deep depression. Living in a state of instability is directly related to not having control over one's life.

Always work on music, but don't let music stop you from working. All of the encouragement and cheers and pats on the back mean nothing in the end. We cheer for people to continue music, but that has no real value in the real world. If people really cared, they would loan you money, give you a job, give you a place to stay, cover some of your expenses, etc. Your parents care about you, but that gives you no right whatsoever to be a burden to them. You owe it to them and to yourself to get your life together and support yourself. 

Being an adult is not easy or fun all of the time. It downright sucks a good deal of the time. But we have to grow up at some point. We cannot live on dreams and hopes and ambition. That stuff crashes into the wall called reality and burns away. 

Do music, but get your life together as well. Take control. You are an adult. I know you can do it.


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