# ProjectSAM Symphobia / Lumina opinions?



## tmm (Sep 26, 2013)

I'm not sure if this is the (very) unusually large amount of extra funds I have speaking or not, but for the last 1-2 days, I've been watching a lot of ProjectSAM vids / listening to demos, and I think I might actually like the concepts, especially for Lumina. Being someone who appreciates getting a lot out of a single patch, Lumina in particular seems pretty impressive, and the tone coming from all 3 libs seems great across the board.

Are there a lot of Symphobia / Lumina users here? If so, what has your experience been? Did you end up using it as much as you expected to? Is it pretty easy to work with?

And another obvious question... having used it for a little bit, do you still feel it was worth the relatively high tag price? If I do end up getting one, that will likely be it for this purchasing spree, as the rest of my funds are already allocated to more practical purposes (larger SSD / possible Mac Mini slave, reverb upgrade to 2CA B2).

I'm looking for totally subjective, biased opinions here, no objective words of Yoda wisdom.

FWIW, the alternatives to the ProjectSAM path for me right now will be a small group of libs I've wanted for a bit, including a choir upgrade (probably Requiem Pro), and either [Adagio Cellos + CW-Pro] or Omnisphere.


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## guizmox (Sep 27, 2013)

As a Symphobia user, I can say that it's not CPU hungry.
IMO, it's a great library for orchestral effects, and a great addition for underlaying other libraries (LASS for exemple) as it adds some kind of consistency and cohesion in an orchestral template.
I won't use it as my "master" orchestral library (and I guess it has not been developped in this way), but it's a great addition to any template, Really.


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## doctornine (Sep 27, 2013)

If I didn't have Omnisphere, it'd be at the top of my shopping list.

I have the Symphobia's, but not Lumina. And I'd agree with the previous comment - it's a great, if not essential tool for orchestral effects, but not as a master orchestral library.


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## Guy Rowland (Sep 27, 2013)

I have Symphobia 1 and likely to get Lumina (need to increase my SSD space before it will fit though). IMO the USP of Symphobia still - and where it has no equal outside Project Sam - is for working quickly. I have half a dozen of the most useful multis in my template (the Stories in Lumina are more refined versions of the multi concept). If you need to orchestrally score to picture at the rate of 8-10 mins a day, it's invaluable as a tool - a multi like Are You Not Entertained is astonishing for a filling out a broad backing in an action cue that you only need to add a small number of elements to rather than orchestrating each element from scratch. IMO S2 jumped the shark there - the multis just seemed gimmicky and actually unplayable in practice, but I'm delighted to see how that direction has been reversed in Lumina. If you haven't yet, register at trysound.com and have a few sessions yourself to check out the multis in action.

Albion is the obvious competitor, but AFAIK Spitfire haven't gone down the multi road in the same way, which is a shame as personally I find it the most useful aspect.

The effects are great if now ubiquitous, and the tone throughout is superb. There's no legato in #1, you'll need separate legato elements.

Omnisphere is also essential. Practically, Omnisphere has never had a sale and is unlikely ever to - the free updates keep on coming though. Project Sam do have very occasional sales (OE is on sale now), my guess would be there would be sale around Black Friday for Symphobia. In other words - I'd try to time a purchase of Symphobia with a sale, but Omni can be bought any time.

EDIT - typing this post was useful / expensive. Figured "what am I waiting for with a new SSD?!" and just ordered the m500 960gb on sale at Amazon. Yipee.


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## Phil M (Sep 27, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Fri 27 Sep said:


> If you haven't yet, register at trysound.com and have a few sessions yourself to check out the multis in action.


+1 for try-sound, a brilliant evaluation tool that I hope will continue to grow and persuade more developers to put their libraries on it.


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## tmm (Sep 27, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

The feedback on S2 was especially enlightening, thanks Guy. Watching all the S2 demo vids, it looked like the patches / multis could be pretty useful, but good (and interesting) to hear that, in practice, they may not be so practical.

If I'm getting one, first will probably be Lumina, which has some legato elements. Plus, I already have plenty of those.



Guy Rowland @ Fri Sep 27 said:


> EDIT - typing this post was useful / expensive. Figured "what am I waiting for with a new SSD?!" and just ordered the m500 960gb on sale at Amazon. Yipee.



Haha, yep, that's the one I'm looking at, too.


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## Guy Rowland (Sep 27, 2013)

tmm @ Fri Sep 27 said:


> Watching all the S2 demo vids, it looked like the patches / multis could be pretty useful, but good (and interesting) to hear that, in practice, they may not be so practical.



I didn't buy S2 on the basis of the Trysound experience - see what you think yourself. I found in S2 they tended just to be layering 4 instruments across the keyboard, which is kinda useless. There are some multis like that in S1, but loads more that are really playable. What I like about Lumina's stories (by the look of them) is that they are designed to be playable and have CC1 action too, which is important.


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## tmm (Sep 27, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Fri Sep 27 said:


> What I like about Lumina's stories (by the look of them) is that they are designed to be playable and have CC1 action too, which is important.



Yep, the aspects of Lumina I find really attractive are how many instruments are available within a single patch, mapped out in an intuitive way, how CC1 has so much control, whether it's fading in/out instruments, or changing mixes, etc, (this seems very useful), and the fact that it includes playable legato instruments.


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## dcoscina (Sep 27, 2013)

I heard something from Maarten about some Lumina seeping into an Orchestral Essentials update down the line. I'd be fine with that. I own both OE, OB, S1, and S2. This is the only library I haven't felt that same urge that I need to buy.


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## playz123 (Sep 27, 2013)

It appears to me that there a lot of people here who are interested in Lumina, checking out Lumina, want to test Lumina etc.......but are hesitating when it comes to buying it.  I am one of those people. It's mainly the cost, and knowing what else I can buy for $1000 these days. BUT that is not meant as a negative comment on Project Sam's pricing, the value of the product or the cost to produce it. It might even be considered by some to be great value. Again though, that's not my point; it's just about where I spend the funds I have and where I feel they will do the most good. I can live without Lumina, but on the other hand wouldn't mind having it either.


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## tmm (Sep 27, 2013)

playz123 @ Fri Sep 27 said:


> It appears to me that there a lot of people here who are interested in Lumina, checking out Lumina, want to test Lumina etc.......but are hesitating when it comes to buying it... It's mainly the cost...



That's the only factor holding me back, and making me weigh it more carefully. If the price was more in the ballpark of the other, (what I consider) more high-end libs I'm looking at, I'd already own it.

And, as you say, I'm not making any judgment calls one way or another on the price, as it could easily be more than justified by the money / effort invested. But at the end of the day, for me, the consumer, I have to weigh getting Lumina - which to me seems very well designed, useful, and sounds great - against getting 2-4 other libs that are also well-designed, useful, and sound great. From my perspective, I could probably cover all the instruments in Lumina (and prob a lot more) with those 2-4 other libs.

So the real deciding factor for me is, given that Lumina indeed sounds awesome (which from all sources I can find, it does), how much more useful / convenient would Lumina be than those 2-4 libs, and how much more efficient would it make my workflow to be able to access and control that many instruments from a single, well-laid out, flexible, playable, and resource-friendly patch?

Knowing how I work, and my preferences for getting as much as I can out of as few patches as possible, I suspect it would score very highly in the latter test, which really leaves the former - how useful / convenient is it?


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## muziksculp (Sep 27, 2013)

Hi,

I'm also interested in LUMINA. I currently am not able to say I'm ready to spend on this big ticket library after checking out the currently posted audio/video demos of LUMINA. 

I also have a feeling that not that many users on this forum have LUMINA. which is the reason not much feedback has been posted by forum members regarding their thoughts about it. 

Hopefully ProjectSam will delight us with some new, and more detailed audio/video demos, walkthroughs, ...etc. to be able to better evaluate, and appreciate LUMINA. and what it can offer.

ProjectSam is currently working on producing more audio/demo and possibly more walkthrough videos for LUMINAL. Hopefully this will help us better evaluate it. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Guy Rowland (Sep 27, 2013)

It's hard to argue that Lumina's price point doesn't at least give many composers pause for thought. I'm not sure I need to hear any more demos, but I can't find myself able to part with the cash without getting a hands-on - definitely time for TrySound to get Lumina. I bought S1 as a direct result of TrySound - and didn't buy S2. If the price were half what it is, I'd take a punt. Like others here, I totally respect PS's pricing decisions, but clearly for many of us the result is that we are cautious.


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## Stephen Rees (Sep 27, 2013)

Dear ProjectSAM,

I don't need to hear any more produced demos myself. I'd just like video demo with simple patch run throughs....

Load patch - noodle away for a bit
Load next patch - noodle away for a bit
Load next patch - noodle away some more......
Etc.

There is a Lumina 'Recordings and Articulations Overview' patch list available as a PDF, but descriptions like 'Orchestrated Longs' and 'Orchestrated Fantasy Gestures' doesn't tell me anything about how they sound or how playable they are from the keyboard.

You know we had that long three month 'teaser' phase from December to March? It feels like what we are being offered are still teasers.

What is the problem with being completely open about what Lumina offers ProjectSAM? If you are confident it's as brilliant as you think it is (and all your other products ARE brilliant for sure, I have most of them!) lay it all bare for us, show us exactly how wonderful Lumina is and exactly what we would be getting for our money.

It's like you are offering us a Ferrari and asking us to buy it based on how cool a picture of the dashboard looks.

I'll still love you guys anyway whatever you do, you do fantastic work.

Hugs,

Stephen


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## Stephen Rees (Sep 27, 2013)

PS: TMM - sorry I got carried away there and didn't even answer your question! You asked for subjective biased opinions so here's mine...

You may have guessed I don' t have Lumina yet 

Symphobias 1 and 2 together are a fantastic combination. They are fast to use, but that is not the main reason I use them. ProjectSAM really have some magic going on with these samples. They sound great (easily, with almost no additional production and FX required) and have - I don't know quite how to put it - a 'weight' or 'resonance' about them. You mentioned their 'tone'. That's a good way to put it, they have a lovely 'tone' to them.

They are really light on resources, you don't need an SSD to run them.

They are tremendously useful, both on their own and used to blend with other libraries. I would recommend them to anyone and I consider them value for money at the price they sell for.

Stephen


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## tmm (Sep 27, 2013)

Stephen Rees @ Fri Sep 27 said:


> PS: TMM - sorry I got carried away there and didn't even answer your question! You asked for subjective biased opinions so here's mine...



NP, interesting to hear what you had to say, I agreed.



Stephen Rees @ Fri Sep 27 said:


> They are really light on resources



This is a very big point for me, being a laptop composer. I have 16GB and an SSD, about to get another SSD for my second slot (via Data Doubler), but I'm still left with the same i7 2.2ghz quad processor.


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## Stephen Rees (Sep 27, 2013)

I can't be sure because I don't use a laptop, but I would guess that your MBP SSD setup would run all three Symphobias concurrently without issues. It would almost certainly run just one of them with ease.


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## Guy Rowland (Sep 28, 2013)

As you may have seen on the Commercial Announcements thread, looks like TrySound can't host Lumina at this point because it's K4 only. Trysound is quickly going to become irrelevant if they don't sort that out - also it seems ridiculous that they can't update any of their libraries after they were initially installed, but I digress.

That leaves me kinda at an impasse. I think the next best way of evaluating would be an in depth video review from Daniel James or SCOREcast Online, that would be very helpful. Naked patch walkthroughs from PS would be the next preferred option.


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## Stephen Rees (Sep 28, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Sep 28 said:


> That leaves me kinda at an impasse.



Yes me too Guy.

Did you know Lumina has solo strings in it? The original patches in Symphobia sound great and new recordings in Lumina (albeit only sustains and tremolo) might be tremendously useful. I say 'might be' because I have no idea. Just one lovely demo featuring solo strings could reveal a whole new aspect of Lumina we haven't heard yet. It is almost like they are a secret


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## Guy Rowland (Sep 28, 2013)

Stephen Rees @ Sat Sep 28 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Sat Sep 28 said:
> 
> 
> > That leaves me kinda at an impasse.
> ...



More and more I'm thinking the great value in the Symphobia series is not so much the individual instruments, but in the combinations. I don't really use the S1 solo strings as such (LASS FC is far better imo) but as an added texture to a multi then it could have real value.

Funnily enough, I've been going through the S1 multis again and isolated another dozen I'd like in my template, which I'll get organised. There's 55 multis in S1 now, and I think part of the reason they're so good is there's such a breadth in raw material - huge ensembles, chamber, solo, fx and sound design elements. One thing I think Lumina lacks by comparison is a large brass section - epic and mystery can use large brass too, I think. S2 is just too bitty to have cohesive multis on their own. 

This will only work in the UK for the next 24 hours, (unless you go via tunnelbear or similar), but listen to Lorne Balfe play this back (only via the speakers and mic sadly, but you get the idea) - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03bfjqv @about 24mins), which could almost be a Symphobia multi, but that lower register brass would sound incredible with Lumina. 

It would be very interesting if PS decided to take a leaf out of Spectrasonics book and produce some VIP multis that work across multiple libraries. You might get slightly close to the RC brass if you combined the brass patch from S1 along with the horns from S2 or something. In fact, I've just added S1 brass to CB Pro 12 horns, Trombone ensemble, Tuba and Bass Trombone and S1 low strings & bass synth DYN, and that sounds pretty frickin' badass. Maybe I should just make more of my own


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## Stephen Rees (Sep 28, 2013)

Really interesting to hear you use them that way. I've never really got beyond noodling away with the multis for a while and thinking they sound cool. I haven't actually used them for anything. In Lumina, the 'Stories' concept isn't really a selling point for me. In some ways I'm the exact opposite. I like using individual patches, and some of those are so useful and 'golden' to me that by themselves they have made a whole library a worthwhile investment.

In S2 the legato flute and uilleann pipes patches alone have made that library worthwhile for me (and there are many other useful patches to me on top of those too of course like the cellos and bassoon). Imagine if Lumina has a 'golden' viola or cello patch hidden in its depths? That really ups my interest in it considerably. Some of the legato woodwinds in Lumina might be 'golden' but I haven't heard enough from them yet to be able to tell.

Truth is I fall right in the middle of the target market for Lumina I'd guess. I write a lot in the fantasy magic genres and yet 6 months after its release I'm still on the fence about it.

I have such a high regard for ProjectSAM that I might just take a punt on it based on my love and respect for their existing products, but they aren't making it easy for me


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## Guy Rowland (Sep 28, 2013)

I do know a lot of S2 owners love the legato woods. TBH I didn't think the legato instruments in Lumina, based on their video demos, were particularly a strong point (but over the years I've developed an aversion to ambient legato generally, I'm horribly fussy). But - and its a big but - as you say, the tone is pretty much always fantastic. One patch I use an awful lot is the wood staccato / percussion in S1 - it just nails the Hollywood sound effortlessly.


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## Stephen Rees (Sep 28, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Sep 28 said:


> One patch I use an awful lot is the wood staccato / percussion in S1 - it just nails the Hollywood sound effortlessly.



Agreed. That's a 'golden patch' right there. Something about that transports me to instant Jerry Goldsmith.


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## jleckie (Sep 28, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Sep 28 said:


> TBH I didn't think the legato instruments in Lumina, based on their video demos...



And the choir. Sounded like a throwback to 80's choirs offered on things like the Yamaha tx81z.


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## tmm (Sep 28, 2013)

Interestingly enough, I've heard a number of users comment (more often on S1/2 than Lumina, just b/c there don't seem to be as many Lumina users) that the Symphobia series works well as a supplement to other libraries.

For me, at least with Lumina (haven't watched as many S1/2 demos), I see it as completely the opposite. If I was going to get Lumina, and it did what I think it can, I'd be writing 60-80% of the song with a few Lumina patches, then adding in whatever else was necessary to fill out the musical idea (ex: stacc strings, more complete perc, etc), b/c it seems like Lumina is totally capable of creating the foundation for full songs, not just for adding "color" or flourishes to songs written with other, more separated libs. Case & point, the first demo off the 1st Lumina 1.1 vid - that's all written with 1 patch of Lumina.

Here's an interesting (and serious) question, though:

How different is Lumina, in terms of content (not the single-channel approach design, obviously), from ERA? Both seem to have an aim toward fantasy / medieval instrumentation, with some percussion, and tools for creating atmospheres.


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## Guy Rowland (Sep 29, 2013)

tmm @ Sun Sep 29 said:


> Interestingly enough, I've heard a number of users comment (more often on S1/2 than Lumina, just b/c there don't seem to be as many Lumina users) that the Symphobia series works well as a supplement to other libraries.
> 
> For me, at least with Lumina (haven't watched as many S1/2 demos), I see it as completely the opposite. If I was going to get Lumina, and it did what I think it can, I'd be writing 60-80% of the song with a few Lumina patches, then adding in whatever else was necessary to fill out the musical idea (ex: stacc strings, more complete perc, etc), b/c it seems like Lumina is totally capable of creating the foundation for full songs, not just for adding "color" or flourishes to songs written with other, more separated libs. Case & point, the first demo off the 1st Lumina 1.1 vid - that's all written with 1 patch of Lumina.



If it's like S1, seems to me you can use it either way really. Either drops of lovely somethings, or as the broad foundation that you can add to.

Well I added 8 more S1 multis to the template yesterday... makes me feel I bought something new!


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## Stephen Rees (Sep 29, 2013)

tmm @ Sun Sep 29 said:


> How different is Lumina, in terms of content (not the single-channel approach design, obviously), from ERA? Both seem to have an aim toward fantasy / medieval instrumentation, with some percussion, and tools for creating atmospheres.



I think the question is - are you wanting orchestra and choir from your library? Era (and you could also consider Forest Kingdom 2) are lovely libraries, but they won't give you big choirs and an orchestral sound.


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## tmm (Sep 29, 2013)

Ah, good call, wasn't thinking about the choirs. That's a thought, though... maybe picking up Lumina will give me enough extra choir material that I can hold off picking up Requiem / Olmypus for a little while longer. What do you think? There's not a lot of full demos of the Lumina choir elements that I've found.


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## Stephen Rees (Sep 29, 2013)

tmm @ Sun Sep 29 said:


> Ah, good call, wasn't thinking about the choirs. That's a thought, though... maybe picking up Lumina will give me enough extra choir material that I can hold off picking up Requiem / Olmypus for a little while longer. What do you think? There's not a lot of full demos of the Lumina choir elements that I've found.



Well, I'm only going on the demos, and the articulation list for Lumina, but I'd describe Luminas choirs as 'Oooo-Ahhh' choirs. They won't do consonants; won't sound like they are articulating words, and won't do staccato trailerish chanting.

We've actually been spoiled with excellent 'Oooo-Ahhhh' choirs for many years, since the (still very useful) Spectrasonics library 'Symphony of Voices' was released. SOV happily lives on inside 'Omnisphere' so that's another option you mention that could cover you for choirs.

As far as Requiem and Olympus goes, I don't have them but from the specs and demos it is clear that they are much more detailed libraries, so if you need more than an 'Oooo-Ahhh' choir for the writing you intend, they would probably be more appropriate choices.


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## 5Lives (Oct 7, 2013)

They seem to have a few walkthrough videos up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzFss0bSwjg

Gotta say - looks really cool! I like their stories concept - especially for a layperson like myself - helps ease the arrangement process.

Feels like a combo of Spitfire's Steam Band + some parts of CineWinds + an assortment of basic stuff like strings, harp, choir. Is that worth $1000, especially if you already have Spitfire / Cinesamples stuff? Not sure...wonder who their target customer is?


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## muziksculp (Oct 7, 2013)

Hi,

Q. How customizable/editable are the various layered patches (multis) / Stories in Lumina ? 

i.e. Can I construct my custom story/ multi from scratch by combining the various patches of LUMINA ? and how customizable/editable are the patches of LUMINA ? 

LUMINA sounds very interesting, but I don't usually like using pre-baked Multis, and like to edit patches, and combine them to discover new possibilities, is this possible to do in LUMINA ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Jayman (Oct 20, 2013)

I'm new here. Also considering Symphobia Lumina. Any users out there who can speak to the quality of the legato instruments? How they compare to something like Cinesamples or Berlin Woodwinds? Or is Cinesamples/Berlin Woodwinds in an entirely different league? 

Also would love to hear about the Sordino strings... they sound beautiful in the demos but there are only a few spots where they can be heard, and just single lines, not chords. Any users care to opine?


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## Ronnyn (Oct 21, 2013)

i didnt test the lumina... but i have symphobia , i can say that have very nice sound .. but no much control ... this is the big problem of many vst.. the control of speed all this.. symphobia have big handicap with this ... not nice atacks and releases, no control.


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## muziksculp (Oct 21, 2013)

@ ProjectSam,

We need more audio/video demos to evaluate LUMINA !

Given the lack of user feedback, I think LUMINA has not been a huge success for ProjSam. But I might be wrong. I might even skip it and wait for their next new library, which will be released next year.


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## re-peat (Oct 21, 2013)

Ronnyn @ Mon Oct 21 said:


> (...) but no much control ... this is the big problem of many vst.. the control of speed all this.. symphobia have big handicap with this ... not nice atacks and releases, no control.


Sorry, but that's just not true. As in: totally untrue.
The only handicapped one here is you, not knowing your libraries.

_


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