# New headphone mixing system from Slate Audio



## JyTy (Oct 2, 2020)

These look interesting: https://stevenslateaudio.com/vsx



When somebody gets their hands on those please share your experience!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 2, 2020)

I was a beta tester. It’s a revolutionary concept and makes the process of mixing and checking your mix much easier (if that’s something you need). They really spent a lot of time tuning the models based on beta feedback.


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## Rick McGuire (Oct 2, 2020)

Very interesting product. Definitely appeals to the bedroom producer in an apartment that can't make a lot of noise


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## TheNorseman (Oct 2, 2020)

I'm skeptical but Slate has proven me wrong before.


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## JyTy (Oct 2, 2020)

That is what I would like to know as well. If it really is a step up compared to using a good standard set like the HD650?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 2, 2020)

JyTy said:


> That is what I would like to know as well. If it really is a step up compared to using a good standard set like the HD650?



It's a totally different concept. An HD650 always sounds like an HD650. If you like mixing on that and can trust it will translate well to all speakers, then great. VSX allows you to not always sound like the same speaker and instead test your mix on many different types of speakers. There's also a 650 emulation in it


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## SupremeFist (Oct 2, 2020)

This is very interesting to me as I write/mix almost exclusively on headphones at the moment, and actually was just about to buy the Neumanns to add to my stable. But is it noticeably better than using eg 6XX plus Abbey Road (which didn't do much for me)?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 2, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> This is very interesting to me as I write/mix almost exclusively on headphones at the moment, and actually was just about to buy the Neumanns to add to my stable. But is it noticeably better than using eg 6XX plus Abbey Road (which didn't do much for me)?



Yes. The benefit of VSX is the hardware and software are interconnected and built for each other vs. something like Waves, which is trying to layer on software on top of hardware it is not tailor made for. Also the hardware is specifically built to provide the perfect canvas for the modeling software (and Slate has done some new interesting hardware stuff as well to help extend the low end response).

Like any tool, you need to learn how to use it and what it can do for you. You can also return it if you don't like it.


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## prodigalson (Oct 2, 2020)

hmm...$40 a month subscription? no thanks


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 2, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> hmm...$40 a month subscription? no thanks



You misread it. You can pay $40 / month until you pay off the full price (12 months) - or you can buy it outright.


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## prodigalson (Oct 2, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You misread it. You can pay $40 / month until you pay off the full price (12 months) - or you can buy it outright.



Ah, the facebook ad I just saw very specifically says "subscription" but just checked the website. guess thats a pretty good deal actually overall


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## jononotbono (Oct 2, 2020)

That’s the problem with working in a studio. You can never say anything about anything. 😂


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## method1 (Oct 2, 2020)

Looks pretty interesting just from a hardware pov.

I have the VMS which is a great mic, and I pretty much never use it with the software modelling which to me never sounds as good as just using the mic as is, might be the case with these headphones too, not to be disparaging about something I've never used, I just mean that the mic delivers on its promise of being very flat and neutral, and hopefully the same in this case.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 2, 2020)

method1 said:


> Looks pretty interesting just from a hardware pov.
> 
> I have the VMS which is a great mic, and I pretty much never use it with the software modelling which to me never sounds as good as just using the mic as is, might be the case with these headphones too, not to be disparaging about something I've never used, I just mean that the mic delivers on its promise of being very flat and neutral, and hopefully the same in this case.



Right - the headphone is very flat (they also have this very impressive HD Linear model that you can use it you want a flat response), but you're not really supposed to use it straight up - just like the mics. They aren't made for that purpose, though if you like the sound, you can of course do it. I ended up selling my KM184s, SM7B, and my vintage U87 after comparing it with the VM-1 (and VM-2). The mic modeling is damn good - good enough that certainly if I can't tell in a blind test (especially in a mix), none of my listeners will be able to either. Technology keeps on chugging!


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## Chizilla (Oct 7, 2020)




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## peladio (Oct 7, 2020)

JyTy said:


> That is what I would like to know as well. If it really is a step up compared to using a good standard set like the HD650?



In my opinion..nope


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## Chizilla (Oct 7, 2020)

I still have this, did few mixes with it unfortunately it's not working anymore on newer OS's, But was not bad, It was challenging, They deceased it.


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## Alex Niedt (Oct 7, 2020)

I'll still check mixes on my other headphones, but I'll do most headphone work in these from now on, without a doubt. I don't think you can go wrong with Archon + SUV + Club + Boombox. I literally just made the production/mix I'd been working on 50% better after setting these headphones up. Even made me realize I was better off swapping out my kick for another. This is definitely a product that will give you a heavy kick in the ass if your mixes are anything short of perfect.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Oct 7, 2020)

This is nothing new. Plenty of linearization and room emulation programs around. 

Like the VMS, they are targeting the consumer and prosumer market and massively inflating the price. If you get a set of similarly priced headphones and sonarworks you'll be better off. The VMS isn't a great mic but the software is nice. I imagine it's the same thing here. Apply the software to a better mic and you'll get even better results. There's no magic going on. 

I'm not saying it's bad. It's just overpriced for the quality of the components that you get. This isn't the ultimate solution that they claim it to be.


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## SupremeFist (Oct 7, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> This is nothing new. Plenty of linearization and room emulation programs around.
> 
> Like the VMS, they are targeting the consumer and prosumer market and massively inflating the price. If you get a set of similarly priced headphones and sonarworks you'll be better off. The VMS isn't a great mic but the software is nice. I imagine it's the same thing here. Apply the software to a better mic and you'll get even better results. There's no magic going on.
> 
> I'm not saying it's bad. It's just overpriced for the quality of the components that you get. This isn't the ultimate solution that they claim it to be.


You don't have it, right?


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Oct 7, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> You don't have it, right?


No but I've used the VMS quite a bit in a number of studios as well as on the Audio Test Kitchen and have always been disappointed compared to nicer mics. I have no reason to believe that these headphones are any different. Like I said, it's probably not bad and the software is probably nice but based on how they run their business, you're getting a pretty cheap pair of headphones.


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## Alex Niedt (Oct 7, 2020)

Would anyone else who's never touched the product like to contribute their opinion about its quality?
😄


Some more thoughts from me...

These things are 100% comfortable for hours. For extended use, I find them more comfortable than my ATH-M50, DT 770 Pro, AKG 271 Studio, and Focal Spirit Pro phones. Your ears may vary, of course.

I generally enjoy the near-field and far-field monitors in the Archon studio the most. Not only extremely helpful/telling, but just a joy to work on. The bassy Club setting is an incredible big-picture look at your mix, and if you need to keep working on your low end, it'll tell you immediately. The SUV is similarly helpful in getting those kick and bass levels and relationships in the perfect sweet spot. This literally feels like doing a car check from the comfort of your studio chair. I worked for a while on the Boombox setting last night, and since it's a narrower spread, I found myself panning things farther apart. I worried this might be a disaster when I switched back to normal monitors, that I might have overdone it, but nope. Just had a much more open mix that still felt fully glued together. Probably won't utilize the headphone models much aside from a quick check here and there since I have some of the modeled phones at my side, but they're tonally pretty close.

By the way, the carrying case is super solid. Definitely won't have to worry about these things if I take them anywhere.


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## John Longley (Oct 7, 2020)

Sounds like the same tech Audeze licensed for Reveal +, let's hope it's better. Reveal + made my LCD X sound like they were in a tunnel in all the modelled rooms.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 7, 2020)

peladio said:


> In my opinion..nope



Do you own it?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 7, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> No but I've used the VMS quite a bit in a number of studios as well as on the Audio Test Kitchen and have always been disappointed compared to nicer mics. I have no reason to believe that these headphones are any different. Like I said, it's probably not bad and the software is probably nice but based on how they run their business, you're getting a pretty cheap pair of headphones.



For a different opinion, I found the ML-1 and ML-2 emulations to be good enough to sell off some of my mic locker. If you have access to the real deal, of course use that but how many people do? Same goes for listening through ATCs in a room with at least $100k acoustic treatment.

Also, the beta group consisted of plenty of professionals and they all not only loved it, but are using it consistently. Many commercial studios are inaccessible right now as you can imagine.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 7, 2020)

For something fun, this performance was fully mixed on the VSX. Sounds absolutely stellar.


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## Alex Niedt (Oct 7, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> For a different opinion, I found the ML-1 and ML-2 emulations to be good enough to sell off some of my mic locker.


Same. I got rid of my Brauner VMX because I preferred the Slate. Had a lot of money left over after that, haha. Just can't beat that workflow, either.


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## JyTy (Oct 7, 2020)

Amazing! Thnx for the feedback, definitely sounds like something worth checking!! 👌


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## Andrew0568 (Oct 11, 2020)

Can you listen through sources other than your DAW? i.e. Chrome/Youtube, Spotify, etc


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 11, 2020)

Andrew0568 said:


> Can you listen through sources other than your DAW? i.e. Chrome/Youtube, Spotify, etc



Yes via software you can get for Windows or Mac like Audio Hijack (those allow you to route audio through VST / AU plugins).


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## rrichard63 (Oct 11, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Yes via software you can get for Windows or Mac like Audio Hijack (those allow you to route audio through VST / AU plugins).


Audio Hijack is Mac only. The closest thing I have found for Windows is VB-Audio's VoiceMeeter and VoiceMeeter Banana.


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## Ndee (Oct 17, 2020)

I've been mixing and composing mainly on headphones for 15 years. Last year, I wanted to try upgrading into proper speakers and turning my room into a functional studio. After few rounds of trial and error (incl. acoustic measuring + building a bunch of acoustic panels), I realized I can never get my home studio - an extra room in my apartment - resembling anything like a space adequate for monitoring. 

I sold my pro speakers, grabbed second-hand, cheap-as-hell PC speakers so I have something to give my ears a break, and instead decided to put my money on proper headphones. The Slate system is a godsend. Ordered a pair immediately. 

Prior to hearing about them, a professional-level headphone monitoring sytem (amp + cans) would've been around 3-4000€ (was eyeing a deal from Focal just when the Slate thing landed), which is not that much if I'd spend it on active speakers, a proper DA converter and acoustic treatment. Also, I've used to moving often so didn't really see the point or even a chance for going all in for the treatment.

2cents, mine.


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## darcvision (Oct 17, 2020)

Ndee said:


> I've been mixing and composing mainly on headphones for 15 years. Last year, I wanted to try upgrading into proper speakers and turning my room into a functional studio. After few rounds of trial and error (incl. acoustic measuring + building a bunch of acoustic panels), I realized I can never get my home studio - an extra room in my apartment - resembling anything like a space adequate for monitoring.
> 
> I sold my pro speakers, grabbed second-hand, cheap-as-hell PC speakers so I have something to give my ears a break, and instead decided to put my money on proper headphones. The Slate system is a godsend. Ordered a pair immediately.
> 
> ...


how do you compare with sennheiser hd650? how about the quality of stereo image?
i've been using audio technica ath-m50x+ sonarworks and its pretty good for mixing and its pretty flat, but i'm not sure if i need to upgrade my headphone...btw do you use calibration headphone like waves mx, or abbey road studio?


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## jcrosby (Oct 17, 2020)

This looks pretty cool. I've used this thing (Spatial Sound Card) since 2016. Similar idea without the matched headphones though... I don't doubt people saying they notice a difference in their mixes using this. I always found SSC revealed a lot on cans and also created the impression of realistic, immersive speaker imaging...






Spatial Sound Card – Pro | New Audio Technology


Tools and technology for production and application of spatial audio.




newaudiotechnology.com





Unfortunately SSC's kind of fumbly to install and it's been a little wonky in Catalina... (It is working but not as stable as it was under 10.13 though...) This would be a nice replacement but it seems like you can only use it as a plugin so far... Thankfully there are options for that..


Also for people looking at Audio hijack I find Soundsource a lot more straight forward in terms of hosting plugins for systemwide audio processing.... AH is definitely awesome, Soundsource just makes the process more direct without having to drag in modules and set up things manually...









SoundSource - A Superior Sound Control


Access your Mac's audio devices, control per-app audio, and much more, all from the menu bar.




rogueamoeba.com


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## Macrawn (Oct 17, 2020)

Alex Niedt said:


> I'll still check mixes on my other headphones, but I'll do most headphone work in these from now on, without a doubt. I don't think you can go wrong with Archon + SUV + Club + Boombox. I literally just made the production/mix I'd been working on 50% better after setting these headphones up. Even made me realize I was better off swapping out my kick for another. This is definitely a product that will give you a heavy kick in the ass if your mixes are anything short of perfect.


That's nice to know. I know the software would be good, but I was wondering about the quality of the headphones. Slate isn't a headphone company so they must have contracted them out. When I heard this I was thinking the headphones can't be that great.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 17, 2020)

Macrawn said:


> That's nice to know. I know the software would be good, but I was wondering about the quality of the headphones. Slate isn't a headphone company so they must have contracted them out. When I heard this I was thinking the headphones can't be that great.



The headphones are very good. I have a number of the common suspects and would consider Slate's at least as good, if not better in terms of build quality. Certainly, very comfortable to wear for long hours.

Slate was also not a microphone company, but now sell microphones. Or an touchscreen company, but sell Ravens. Like most companies, they work with partners to bring their products to life.


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## Macrawn (Oct 18, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> The headphones are very good. I have a number of the common suspects and would consider Slate's at least as good, if not better in terms of build quality. Certainly, very comfortable to wear for long hours.
> 
> Slate was also not a microphone company, but now sell microphones. Or an touchscreen company, but sell Ravens. Like most companies, they work with partners to bring their products to life.


 I'm just more skeptical I guess. 

This guy found them to be a little harsh and fatiguing in the 1-3k freq. It wasn't a "neutral" thing he knows the difference as he's a mix engineer. 

He's going to try them for a few weeks and do a couple mixes on them and see if he gets used to them. I imagine if he still finds them harsh and fatiguing after that he'll go back to his hd650's. 



I need a pair of headphones as the ones I have broke. I might go ahead and get this at some point. I also have been wanting to get some Aventones, but maybe these headphones can substitute for that.


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## Ndee (Oct 18, 2020)

stefandy31 said:


> how do you compare with sennheiser hd650? how about the quality of stereo image?
> i've been using audio technica ath-m50x+ sonarworks and its pretty good for mixing and its pretty flat, but i'm not sure if i need to upgrade my headphone...btw do you use calibration headphone like waves mx, or abbey road studio?



Hi, they haven't arrived yet so can't comment on how their stand up to the ones you mentioned. I used to use calibration software but then I just sort of forgot to do so after a while and instead would switch between various cans.


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## Macrawn (Oct 18, 2020)

I am curious about what they did to design or connect the software to these headphones. It's not exactly clear to me what they did. It would be nice to know if they say took the frequency response of the different rooms, and then the frequency response of the headphones, so they could cancel out the eq curve of the headphones to get a flat response with only the room acoustics. I imagine that's what they would do (similar to Sonarworks) since they know the performance of the phones. Of course each can is different but +- a couple db. The only detail on that I've found was the software was designed around the headphones.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 18, 2020)

Macrawn said:


> I am curious about what they did to design or connect the software to these headphones. It's not exactly clear to me what they did. It would be nice to know if they say took the frequency response of the different rooms, and then the frequency response of the headphones, so they could cancel out the eq curve of the headphones to get a flat response with only the room acoustics. I imagine that's what they would do (similar to Sonarworks) since they know the performance of the phones. Of course each can is different but +- a couple db. The only detail on that I've found was the software was designed around the headphones.



Pretty sure how they made it all work would be proprietary information, but yes, the headphones were designed to be a flat platform for the room models to be applied on.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 18, 2020)

Macrawn said:


> I'm just more skeptical I guess.
> 
> This guy found them to be a little harsh and fatiguing in the 1-3k freq. It wasn't a "neutral" thing he knows the difference as he's a mix engineer.
> 
> ...




Well, I'm not sure about that guy's credentials, but if you want to trust him, go for it 

I'll stick to the multiple top tier professionals that were in the beta and are now using it (including for the Tonight Show performance I shared above). And of course, my own ears.


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## Macrawn (Oct 18, 2020)

[


ALittleNightMusic said:


> Well, I'm not sure about that guy's credentials, but if you want to trust him, go for it
> 
> I'll stick to the multiple top tier professionals that were in the beta and are now using it (including for the Tonight Show performance I shared above). And of course, my own ears.


I trust a mix engineer who isn't emotionally invested in the project more than a beta tester honestly. But I think I also said I'm considering the headphones and I'm not tied to that guy's opinion. It's kinda nice to see someone who isn't touting these things are miracle workers like everyone else on youtube. 

When hyped things like this come out people get enamored with the idea, so it needs time to really see if they are what people say they are.


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## method1 (Dec 27, 2020)

Checking in after a few days use, I was somewhat skeptical of the marketing claims having had a bad time with the Raven & in the case of VMS preferring the mic without the modelling, and thought worst case I'd get a pair of expensive headphones, but man the VSX is really something.

I'm astonished, they really did it, and this is only version 1!
This COMPLETELY blows away any headphone I've ever used, and is infinitely better than a pair of expensive monitors in an average room or using Sonarworks etc.

For people who are into mixing, this is probably the best investment you can make right now!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 27, 2020)

method1 said:


> Checking in after a few days use, I was somewhat skeptical of the marketing claims having had a bad time with the Raven & in the case of VMS preferring the mic without the modelling, and thought worst case I'd get a pair of expensive headphones, but man the VSX is really something.
> 
> I'm astonished, they really did it, and this is only version 1!
> This COMPLETELY blows away any headphone I've ever used, and is infinitely better than a pair of expensive monitors in an average room or using Sonarworks etc.
> ...



Make sure you check out their new ear size profiles. It's pretty revolutionary stuff.


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## Akarin (Dec 27, 2020)

Since I got it, I use it for all of my mixes. It's really good.


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## method1 (Dec 27, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Make sure you check out their new ear size profiles. It's pretty revolutionary stuff.



Yeah! Luckily got my pair just before they released the update, I'm def a profile 1 though.


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## method1 (Dec 27, 2020)

Akarin said:


> Since I got it, I use it for all of my mixes. It's really good.


It really is!

I spent something like 2 years tuning my room and it has a really good frequency response and decay time. I had a nasty 38hz resonance in the room that was a real chore to sort out.
I have a pair of Amphion One18 with the BaseOne25. 

So when I started using the VSX I was relieved to find most of my mixes didn't suck, but even so I quickly picked out issues using VSX that were often struggles to get (almost) right on my speaker system.


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## Macrawn (Dec 27, 2020)

method1 said:


> Checking in after a few days use, I was somewhat skeptical of the marketing claims having had a bad time with the Raven & in the case of VMS preferring the mic without the modelling, and thought worst case I'd get a pair of expensive headphones, but man the VSX is really something.
> 
> I'm astonished, they really did it, and this is only version 1!
> This COMPLETELY blows away any headphone I've ever used, and is infinitely better than a pair of expensive monitors in an average room or using Sonarworks etc.
> ...


I've got a dedicated processor by Smyth that does the 3-d space thing. It actually maps your ears. You put little microphones in your ears and then it runs sound through speakers to map your ear. It's great for home theater or gaming on headphones. This tech is the same idea. It's amazing that things can be placed in a 3-d space with headphones on your head. This set up won't be as accurate without ear measurements but I can see how it could be very good. Mine works without ear measurements pretty well. 

My only concern is the quality of the headphones. Like a $400 pair of headphones is not going to be as accurate in reproducing sound as a $3000 monitor system. Maybe it's accurate enough though.


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## Macrawn (Dec 27, 2020)

method1 said:


> It really is!
> 
> I spent something like 2 years tuning my room and it has a really good frequency response and decay time. I had a nasty 38hz resonance in the room that was a real chore to sort out.
> I have a pair of Amphion One18 with the BaseOne25.
> ...


How do you think it is making your mixes better? You think a flatter response? More accurate stereo imaging? Just curious. I might get a pair to check my mixes.


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## method1 (Dec 27, 2020)

Macrawn said:


> I've got a dedicated processor by Smyth that does the 3-d space thing. It actually maps your ears. You put little microphones in your ears and then it runs sound through speakers to map your ear. It's great for home theater or gaming on headphones. This tech is the same idea. It's amazing that things can be placed in a 3-d space with headphones on your head. This set up won't be as accurate without ear measurements but I can see how it could be very good. Mine works without ear measurements pretty well.
> 
> My only concern is the quality of the headphones. Like a $400 pair of headphones is not going to be as accurate in reproducing sound as a $3000 monitor system. Maybe it's accurate enough though.



Wow, didn't know such a thing existed, sounds really cool.
My concern about the headphone quality is more around longevity, they're a little cheap feeling but they work as advertised. I think the point is that a $3000 dollar speaker system is at the mercy of the room it is placed in.



Macrawn said:


> How do you think it is making your mixes better? You think a flatter response? More accurate stereo imaging? Just curious. I might get a pair to check my mixes.



I took some advice and decided to just "trust the system" and not second guess the emulation.
I quickly found that all my tests translated extremely well across devices and systems.
I mix in 1 room, and then when it's done check the low end in the SUV or the Club and adjust if necessary. 

Low frequencies are the bane of the home studio (and some pro studios!), almost everyone struggles with that and it's not fixable without some serious investment in time and specialised trapping, the VSX just removes that problem very elegantly.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 27, 2020)

Shhh guys, don't tell everyone it's as great as it really is...


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## method1 (Dec 27, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Shhh guys, don't tell everyone it's as great as it really is...



Yeah it feels like a secret weapon 
You still need to know how to mix (at least that's what I'll keep telling myself) , but it removes most of the acoustic barriers toward that end.


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## Zero&One (Dec 27, 2020)

I bought a pair from another thread discussion a few weeks back.
Used them for a few weeks now and can safely say they are awful. Rubbish. Move on.


Still here...
They are really comfortable on my fat head. Install was a breeze. And I'm blown away.
On install, so not to cloud my judgement I loaded up that LogicX Billie Eilish project as it should be good yeah? Certainly not my genre.
On every setup in sounded fantastic, every headphone and even the crappy car. The sound was (to my ears testing) spot on to my Apple ear buds also. So the mix proved to be spot on in every situation.

So I put in my latest track... excited for ear heaven!
sounded like shit in every venue, every headphone. It did sound great when I bypassed the plugin though. 

Today I sent over a quick intro/verse djent metal style demo to my friend for quick review. It was just tracked, that was it.
He commented "dude the mix sounds great btw". I hadn't done anything other than general tone tweaking of the heads as I normally do. No EQ, compressors etc were used. Nothing

So it may be wizardry or utter rubbish. But you'll have to pry them from my cold dead hands.


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## JyTy (Jan 9, 2021)

That is it, just ordered mine as well... can't wait to give them as spin!


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