# How big is your template(s)?



## Robert_G (Dec 22, 2020)

I'm wondering how big some people let their master template get. Do you separate your templates based on 'type' of arrangement, or do you always start from a larger 'master' template.

I have a master template (Cubase), but it's (.cpr file) over 1/2 a gig now and about 350 patches total. It's well organized, but it's getting a bit much.

So I also made a 'Chamber Strings' template, a 'Solo Strings' template, a 'Specialty' template for Era stuff, a 'Specialty' template for sketching, and a 'Specialty' template for solo piano, etc, etc. These 'specialized' templates are as small as 50MB which is nice.

What does everyone else do?


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## I like music (Dec 22, 2020)

I think I have about 85 tracks in total, and that's me done. I comes to around 16-20gb. This is my _base_ template.

That's mainly because for woodwinds and brass I'm using just the one library (Infinite Series). For strings, CSS + SM to supplement. And for percussion it is HWP.

Given that I'm just trying to learn, and only really interested in writing straightforward orchestral stuff, I don't _yet_ need to include tons of other stuff in my master/base template.

The reason I have this template is so that the ambiences and balances are done correctly, per section. My logic is that if I have to add anything non-standard, then chances are that the ambience/balance will be done to taste for those supplemental instruments. Therefore they don't need to be in the master (perhaps I shouldn't call it a master, rather a 'base template')

This said, I have created two versions of the same template. One I call 'studio' and one I call 'hall' as I feel this would help me cover 80% of my bases. One is basically all close-mic stuff in a relatively dry studio, the other is a lusher hall etc

This would all mean something if I wrote any of my own music. Seem to spend all my time mocking other people's stuff up. The template does help with that though!


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## Robert_G (Dec 22, 2020)

I like music said:


> I think I have about 85 tracks in total, and that's me done. I comes to around 16-20gb. This is my _base_ template.



Hmm, you must be talking RAM usage. I was talking DAW file size. I've never heard of 20 gig template files.....but I guess it's possible.


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## I like music (Dec 22, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Hmm, you must be talking RAM usage. I was talking DAW file size. I've never heard of 20 gig template files.....but I guess it's possible.



Shit sorry. Yes! .cpr file was around 50-70 megabytes, if I remember correctly!

EDIT: I bet there's at least one megalomaniac on Vi-control that actually has a 20gb sized project file lol.


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## Robert_G (Dec 22, 2020)

I like music said:


> EDIT: I bet there's at least one megalomaniac on Vi-control that actually has a 20gb sized project file lol.



I was thinking the exact same thing. Lets see if anyone admits to it.


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 22, 2020)

I'm up to 1200 tracks/channels in Quad.1 for my master template. Fully loaded it's around 40gb per slave, I think, something like that. I've got 2 pc slaves and one main DAW pc. The whole thing takes me about... 2 minutes to load. That includes pushing my cat off of my QCon Controller. 👍 

Last week I saw Cubase take up 10gB in RAM for one project, but the template itself is what - like, 120mb?


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## Gingerbread (Dec 22, 2020)

I don't know if others would find it useful, but I decided to go the route of a modular template. Essentially, for each section of the orchestra, I created one file for all patches from every library I own. For example, the 'Strings' file has every strings patch from all my libraries. Each patch has been balanced against each other, panned, EQ'd, reverbed, and pre-routed. I do the same for the other main sections of the orchestra: brass, perc, choir, pianos, harps, and misc.

Then at the start of a project, I open a base file which has the receiving routings, and use the Import function in Logic to simply choose and drop in individual patches for whatever instruments I want. Everything is ready to go, pre-balanced and pre-routed, and each patch just drops in. And I can always add or delete as desired, as the project goes on.

So I can quickly build a unique template for each project, since all the work is pre-loaded. It's a lot of work upfront to balance and organize everything, but it means I have complete flexibility when I start my project to quickly drag-and-drop the template I want, within seconds.


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## Robert_G (Dec 22, 2020)

quickbrownf0x said:


> I'm up to 1200 tracks/channels in Quad.1 for my master template. Fully loaded it's around 40gb per slave, I think, something like that. I've got 2 pc slaves and one main DAW pc. The whole thing takes me about... 2 minutes to load.
> 
> Last week I saw Cubase take up 10gB in RAM for one project, but the template itself is what - like, 120mb?



Interesting. I wonder how you have 4 times as many tracks as I do, but 4 times less the DAW file size???


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 22, 2020)

Gingerbread said:


> I don't know if others would find it useful, but I decided to go the route of a modular template. Essentially, for each section of the orchestra, I created one file for all patches from every library I own. For example, the 'Strings' file has every strings patch from all my libraries. Each patch has been balanced against each other, panned, EQ'd, reverbed, and pre-routed. I do the same for the other main sections of the orchestra: brass, perc, choir, pianos, harps, and misc.
> 
> Then at the start of a project, I open a base file which has the receiving routings, and use the Import function in Logic to simply choose and drop in individual patches for whatever instruments I want. Everything is ready to go, pre-balanced and pre-routed, and each patch just drops in. And I can always add or delete as desired, as the project goes on.
> 
> So I can quickly build a unique template for each project, since all the work is pre-loaded. It's a lot of work upfront to balance and organize everything, but it means I have complete flexibility when I start my project to quickly drag-and-drop the template I want, within seconds.



Do you find you miss out on experimentation or serendipitous instrumentation due to going modular? That was the main reason I didn't do it - I want to chance upon libraries and instruments I have that I may not remember off the top of my head. Modular requires knowing what you want in some ways before you write.


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 22, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Interesting. I wonder how you have 4 times as many tracks as I do, but 4 times less the DAW file size???



Dude, that IS weird. I have no idea. You think it has something to do with VEPro? I just checked it again; 







See, it's just 115 megs? 🤷‍♂️


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## Jdiggity1 (Dec 22, 2020)

Yes. MIDI tracks don't add to the project's file size. Only audio paths and instrument channels.
Because of this, self-contained project files are almost always larger than VEP-based projects. Another benefit of using VEP (locally or on a network)


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 22, 2020)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Yes. MIDI tracks don't add to the project's file size. Only audio paths and instrument channels.
> Because of this, self-contained project files are almost always larger than VEP-based projects. Another benefit of using VEP (locally or on a network)



Well, there you go then.


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## Robert_G (Dec 22, 2020)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Yes. MIDI tracks don't add to the project's file size. Only audio paths and instrument channels.
> Because of this, self-contained project files are almost always larger than VEP-based projects. Another benefit of using VEP (locally or on a network)



Ah....yes....mine are all Instrument and FX tracks....plus a Chord (and scale) Track.


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 22, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Ah....yes....mine are all Instrument and FX tracks....plus a Chord (and scale) Track.



Time to hop on that VEPro train, my friend. Join The Dark Side. We've got snacks. 🥳


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## mybadmemory (Dec 22, 2020)

I’m just a hobbyist but I used to have my template set up by section first and then library underneath that. I felt that this approach overwhelmed me since each section had so many options. Every time I opened Strings for example, I always ended up auditioning libraries instead of writing music.

So I turned my template around. Now it’s library first, and then the orchestra by section underneath that. I find this keeps me much more in the writers zone. Depending on where I start I tend to stick within the same library, writing instead of auditioning, and breaking out only when I hit a dead end.


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## Robert_G (Dec 22, 2020)

quickbrownf0x said:


> Time to hop on that VEPro train, my friend. Join The Dark Side. We've got snacks. 🥳



You know.....I've never even looked into VEPro, but so many people seem to swear by it. I might just have to study it sometime, although from the little I know about it.....I'm not sure what it would bring to my table.




mybadmemory said:


> I’m just a hobbyist but I used to have my template set up by section first and then library underneath that. I felt that this approach overwhelmed me since each section had so many options. Every time I opened Strings for example, I always ended up auditioning libraries instead of writing music.
> 
> So I turned my template around. Now it’s library first, and then the orchestra by section underneath that. I find this keeps me much more in the writers zone. Depending on where I start I tend to stick within the same library, writing instead of auditioning, and breaking out only when I hit a dead end.



Definetely Library first. I may have a large template, but it is organized.
It goes something like this:


Cinematic Studio Series:
-----Strings
-----Brass
-----Woodwinds
etc
etc


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## Tremendouz (Dec 22, 2020)

I was trying to make a balanced full-ish template in Reaper but I decided against it and now I just have track templates for the separate instrument groups. Need ensemble strings? I'll pop in the "ORCH Strings CSS" track template which loads in around 5 seconds. Same for solo strings, ensemble and solo brass, woodwinds, pitched percussion, unpitched percussion...


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 22, 2020)

mybadmemory said:


> I’m just a hobbyist but I used to have my template set up by section first and then library underneath that. I felt that this approach overwhelmed me since each section had so many options. Every time I opened Strings for example, I always ended up auditioning libraries instead of writing music.
> 
> So I turned my template around. Now it’s library first, and then the orchestra by section underneath that. I find this keeps me much more in the writers zone. Depending on where I start I tend to stick within the same library, writing instead of auditioning, and breaking out only when I hit a dead end.



Interesting - I have mine set up as section first as well, but I find it allows me to quickly audition different libraries based on the sound I need for the part I'm playing. And layering / mixing multiple libraries more easily.


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 22, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> You know.....I've never even looked into VEPro, but so many people seem to swear by it. I might just have to study it sometime, although from the little I know about it.....I'm not sure what it would bring to my table.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Library First" - heresy, I say! 

But sure, I can see how that can make sense. Not sure if I spend my time doing a lot of 'auditioning' (mentioned earlier) when it comes to the orchestra, though. After a while I think you kind of know what those libraries sound like, right? Unless you're always buying new stuff?

I'm deliberately not mentioning Omnisphere or anything made by u-he here, because Jesus - how can you NOT get lost browsing, tinkering around with those? Down the rabbit-hole we go, lol.


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## Tremendouz (Dec 22, 2020)

Forgot to say, I have no idea about file sizes but the full template I had going on used around 28GB RAM mainly cause I was inefficient about purging. Joshua Bell Violin was using 1.5GB alone 😆


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## dgburns (Dec 22, 2020)

Does size matter?


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## Gingerbread (Dec 22, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Do you find you miss out on experimentation or serendipitous instrumentation due to going modular? That was the main reason I didn't do it - I want to chance upon libraries and instruments I have that I may not remember off the top of my head. Modular requires knowing what you want in some ways before you write.


Actually, that hasn't been a problem for me. When I'm importing from, say, the 'Woodwind' master file, I'll peruse through the file, looking at each woodwind patch. Prior to this system, and before I had all my woodwinds in one master file, I'd definitely forget which patches I had. Now everything's grouped and organized, and easy to peruse in one file.


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## nolotrippen (Dec 22, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> I'm wondering how big some people let their master template get. Do you separate your templates based on 'type' of arrangement, or do you always start from a larger 'master' template.
> 
> I have a master template (Cubase), but it's (.cpr file) over 1/2 a gig now and about 350 patches total. It's well organized, but it's getting a bit much.
> 
> ...


If it wasn't for folders, my template would go to the moon and back…twice.


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## JohnG (Dec 22, 2020)

I sort of lost track (har-har). 1,500? 2,000?

Not sure really what the question is aimed at. Some people don't want to use a template at all and start with a blank page.


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## shponglefan (Dec 22, 2020)

I just started building one in Studio One and have only added a couple dozen tracks so far.

I had thought about going with multiple templates, but instead I'm going to try to rely on Studio One's presets. My plan is to have a lightweight template with the essentials, while allowing easy drag 'n drop of additional instruments.


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## Robert_G (Dec 22, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Some people don't want to use a template at all and start with a blank page.



Couldn't imagine starting each project with a blank page. The time saved with template is immeasurable.


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## from_theashes (Dec 29, 2020)

I just finished my scoring template in which I loaded each of my main libraries with each(most) articulation for each instrument... came down to 666 tracks 😈 and 551mb


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## chillbot (Dec 29, 2020)

281 tracks, 60 GB.


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## AndyP (Dec 29, 2020)

I have several templates that mostly serve a specific purpose.
In VEPro I have built about 250 instances that I can recombine at any time. Currently 10 VEPro, Cubase project templates. The largest has 350 tracks (lots of Hollywood Orchestra - who's surprised), the smallest 45.

VEPro instances exist in different variations depending on the Cubase project (especially if synth or hybrid stuff is included).

Just today I made a new template mainly for my Cinesamples stuff (for the JW sound, the micmix in Cinestrings is very cool). It also has parts of the BBO (Solaris and Black Eye) , BBCSO String leader, Synchron FX Strings, Instances for String and Woodwind runs, and Choirs. All in all 250 tracks in Cubase.

One template only for BBO, one for rock and metal, hybrid trailers, 3 mixed orchestras, and so on.

I have to admit that sometimes I don't feel like building a template because it takes a lot of time in the beginning and you don't really make music. But once they are built they save a lot of time.

Sometimes I just start with an empty Cubase project and build a new VEPro project (I load everything into VEPro when I'm not working on the MacBook alone for quick ideas, so I have some libraries on 2 separate SSD).

Meanwhile I'm away from the mega template with 800 + tracks, which became too time-consuming to maintain and too complex to use.


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## HarmonyCore (Jan 16, 2021)

I don't know why every time I hear the term "VEPro" I get the feeling of complication. I am on a humble HP OMEN 15t-dc100 laptop with only 32 GB RAM, Intel Core i7 9750H, 2.6 Ghz processor and I am using a simple Cubase template that hosts every single VST and effect plugin I bought to date with 2600 disabled tracks and everything routed, panned, EQ'ed, etc. No need for servers, networks, VEP instances and all that buzz. I never faced any CPU or RAM bottleneck. I think VEP will make more sense when I become more of a Hans Zimmer and my projects get bigger. For the time being, I am very happy with my setup.


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## Rossy (Jan 16, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> I'm wondering how big some people let their master template get. Do you separate your templates based on 'type' of arrangement, or do you always start from a larger 'master' template.
> 
> I have a master template (Cubase), but it's (.cpr file) over 1/2 a gig now and about 350 patches total. It's well organized, but it's getting a bit much.
> 
> ...


I still haven't ventured into templates although there have been some kind people here who have pointed to some great resources for me to look at. Out of curiosity, does it really speed up the work flow? I know where my instruments are and can access them very quickly but I'm always looking to improve. I have seen some pretty big templates on YouTube and always wondered about how the instruments were grouped, I think thats why I haven't tried one yet. I look forward to following this thread.


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## Rossy (Jan 16, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> Couldn't imagine starting each project with a blank page. The time saved with template is immeasurable.


Does that apply to all daws? I use studio one and its drag and drop feature is pretty quick but I'm always looking to speed up my work flow.


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## HarmonyCore (Jan 16, 2021)

Rossy said:


> I still haven't ventured into templates although there have been some kind people here who have pointed to some great resources for me to look at. Out of curiosity, does it really speed up the work flow? I know where my instruments are and can access them very quickly but I'm always looking to improve. I have seen some pretty big templates on YouTube and always wondered about how the instruments were grouped, I think thats why I haven't tried one yet. I look forward to following this thread.


Yes, a template speeds up your workflow tremendously because your instruments are already there waiting for you to record and compose right away, saving you from the tons of mouse clicks expanding VST folder structures and selecting patches inside Kontakt during writing. When you lock yourself in the write zone, you don't want to get distracted by technicalities much.

I got used to grouping instruments in the following folder structure order:

-Strings
------- CineSamples
--------------------- Single Artic.
----------------------Multi Artic.
----------------------Solo Instr.
----------------------Layered Multis 
----------------------Runs/Phrases

And so on ....


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## Robert_G (Jan 16, 2021)

Rossy said:


> Does that apply to all daws? I use studio one and its drag and drop feature is pretty quick but I'm always looking to speed up my work flow.


I could never go back to starting projects from scratch. I have all the needed articulations ready to go in the template and each of them has my common starting points in the programming placed in the first bar....ie modulation expression vibrato panning etc etc.


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## Robert_G (Jan 16, 2021)

HarmonyCore said:


> -Strings
> ------- CineSamples
> --------------------- Single Artic.
> ----------------------Multi Artic.
> ...


Mine is a bit different

Cinematic Studios
......Strings
......Solo Strings
......Brass
......Woodwinds


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## AceAudioHQ (Jan 16, 2021)

I don't use templates, I have one with all CSS patches loaded but after batch resave I didn't need it anymore.


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## BassClef (Jan 16, 2021)

Just a hobbyist here...having fun in Logic... no pressure... no deadlines...

One large orchestral template but only one track/instance of each instrument . (with a default articulation) After adding the 13 new instruments in Cinematic Studio Woodwinds, it's about 150 tracks. Then I have Babylonwaves articulations loaded for each instrument. (I trust Marc will have CSW set ready soon)

Then I have some smaller templates for sketching, and do often start from scratch, because I rarely use a full orchestra.


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## Scamper (Jan 16, 2021)

My current Cubase template file including CSS/CSB/CSW/Perc and a few solo and extra instruments sits at 94MB.
I'm not quite sure where the size is coming from. Is it also dependent on the Cubase version?
My previous Cubase 6 template with different woodwinds and just a few less tracks was just 28MB.

I was hoping the possibility to deactivate tracks in Cubase would allow huge templates with anything, you could need, but I'm also not a fan of huge file sizes.

For my needs, I think a basic orchestral template will suffice and on top of that, *track archives* in Cubase can do everything else, since they are little templates anyways. So I have setup some libraries like SCS as track archive including expression maps and a bit of group routing and can import it quickly, which is almost as good as a full template.


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## benatural (Jan 16, 2021)

3500 midi tracks.... I definitely use specific instruments more than others


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## X-Bassist (Jan 16, 2021)

benatural said:


> 3500 midi tracks.... I definitely use specific instruments more than others


Finally, someone that makes my 2500 tracks look like peanuts...  

Although admittedly, mine are seperated by sections, include rock, jazz, bigband sections, as well as all orchestral, keyboards, sound design sections. I also like ethic winds, percussion, brass, vocals... So the number of sections keeps growing. I keep presets (sets of tracks) to import sections I need into my project session. Really speeds things up when I'm in a hurry and ask "where are my best ethnic flutes?". Ventus, track 1.


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## Hywel (Jan 16, 2021)

What I want to know is how often folks ADD things to their template or do some template housekeeping (adjusting parameters etc) and how long it takes them to do this?
I have a small orchestral template (by some of the benchmarks above anyway) which I use to IMPORT tracks into a much smaller "start up" Cubase template set up with all the routings, expression maps etc.
Just this week I actually properly opened the orchestral template (to add my brand spanking new CSWs) and it took ages to open - well minutes anyway because of it's size. Then I discovered I have to open it again because I forgot to make some settings to the tracks.
So my supplementary question is - what settings do folks actually bake in to their template tracks.
I use Instrument Tracks (pretty much 100%) with Cubase and I do things as follows

Set Track Offset
Setup MIDI Control with initial values for CC1, 2, 7 and 11 in MIDI Inserts
Routing to appropriate Group and Reverbs
Load appropriate Expression Map
Then I consider specific instrument settings eg mic mix settings, unlearning CCs for some controllers and ading others, removing built in reverb, select what I consider best or at least initial instrument options and settings etc, etc
I usually add an EQ instance to each track but set to bypass as default
Do others go through a routine like this?


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## GNP (Jan 16, 2021)

I basically start with about 20 synths, 20 kontakts and 20 others, but they're all not preloaded with anything. So it's a template, but a blank template. That way I my tracks don't end up sounding the same, as one would tend to just reach for certain sounds if pre-loaded. I then expand and load more if I need more.


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## Uiroo (Jan 17, 2021)

roughly 2000 tracks, all tracks hidden and disabled. Project file is the main downside, roughly 650mb. 
Opening takes maybe 20 sec.

While working I have a text document where I write down changes I want to make to the template, I update my template sometimes daily or just every few weeks. 
I use it for EDM bangers and orchestral stuff, I don't see any reason not to. For the EDM bangers I often delete all the disabled instruments to reduce file size after I know where the track is going and I'm sure I don't really need the template. 

Templates are great, there are a lot of misconceptions about them. For me the only downsize is as mentioned the file size, but other than that it's perfect.


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## Saxer (Jan 17, 2021)

I keep my templates as small as I can. I hate scrolling and zooming in and out all the time. I have lots of separate templates I can import from other songs. I also don't like disabled tracks. I want the sound to be there on first note. I'm faster with less decisions to make inside a song even if it means I have to replace a section half way in the song. I started every sentence in this post with "I": am I too selfish?


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## jononotbono (Jan 17, 2021)

I’m about to start building an expression map template. Hopefully it’s not going to be a waste of time as I’ve always preferred separate tracks. I’ll probably just do one library with expression maps to start with and just see how that goes. I’m going to make sure my touch screen will be contextual with the tracks though as I can’t be bothered with doing this unless I can instantly change the arts via a touch screen. It’s a lot of work.

Ive recently been using a bare bones template for library music and I usually just butcher the project session of a finished track and turn that into a template for subsequent tracks on the same album.

I do have a 4300ish track template using VEPro 7 and 3 computers. But I don’t have the horsepower to run that unless the majority of it is disabled and enable as I go.

Yeah things can get out of hand quite quickly when building a template.


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## cloudbuster (Jan 17, 2021)

The last time I checked the big 'un in reaper was about 350 tracks but then I haven't used it in a while and stick with a collection of modules instead. 
These days I'm still in the process of setting up more or less the same modules plus some new ones in Bitwig and will probably forego another monster. The best part is that I somehow just can't create an empty template but usually end up with a piece of music first, lol.


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## Henning (Jan 17, 2021)

Till I bought a new powerful machine half a year back I relied on a master / slave setup with VEP. I used VEP since the day it came out about a decade ago when it replaced FXTeleport (some might remember). Anyway after coming across Trevor Morris' template videos I decided to go for a completely disabled Nuendo template. But this time I'm only putting in libs that sound good but also are easy and fast to use. I am also adding things in while working on projects. Templates are never finished but I feel really liberated now that VEP is not part of the process anymore.


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## AndyP (Jan 18, 2021)

It would be great if I could activate and deactivate miditracks linked to a VEP instance in Cubase, and have that happen directly in VEP at the same time as the miditracks of the instances. Then the complete control could be done via Cubase.
Then I wouldn't have to jump back and forth between monitors so often.
When I have all instances and tracks activated in VEP it pulls down the CPU power. So with VEP you also have to de-activate channels, so the process is not so completely different from using a pure Cubase template.
The connection of VEP to DAWs can certainly be improved.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 18, 2021)

AndyP said:


> It would be great if I could activate and deactivate miditracks linked to a VEP instance in Cubase, and have that happen directly in VEP at the same time as the miditracks of the instances. Then the complete control could be done via Cubase.
> Then I wouldn't have to jump back and forth between monitors so often.
> When I have all instances and tracks activated in VEP it pulls down the CPU power. So with VEP you also have to de-activate channels, so the process is not so completely different from using a pure Cubase template.
> The connection of VEP to DAWs can certainly be improved.



You can do this. That’s how I set up my template. Never need to look at VEP then.


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## jononotbono (Jan 18, 2021)

AndyP said:


> It would be great if I could activate and deactivate miditracks linked to a VEP instance in Cubase, and have that happen directly in VEP at the same time as the miditracks of the instances. Then the complete control could be done via Cubase.
> Then I wouldn't have to jump back and forth between monitors so often.
> When I have all instances and tracks activated in VEP it pulls down the CPU power. So with VEP you also have to de-activate channels, so the process is not so completely different from using a pure Cubase template.
> The connection of VEP to DAWs can certainly be improved.


Using a touchscreen and setting up the automation from VEPro and having specific buttons to do this is very useful for this. VEPro 7 makes this much easier and the automation options in VEPro 6 are way more limited in comparison.


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## Alex Fraser (Jan 18, 2021)

My Logic template is really a couple of basic routings and that's that.

A Logic patch can bundle everything you need, including articulation maps and bus routings, so I tend to set up my libraries how I like, then save as a patch for recall whenever.


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## HarmonyCore (Jan 19, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> I’m about to start building an expression map template. Hopefully it’s not going to be a waste of time as I’ve always preferred separate tracks. I’ll probably just do one library with expression maps to start with and just see how that goes.


Luckily, I am a piano guy before even touching the world of DAWs. So, keyswitches are like chewing a gum to me and I don't need to waste time in these exp maps. Also, I am 99% using separate tracks for each articulation. I mainly use the keyswitches for pitch changes in sound design libraries.


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## ZeroZero (Jan 31, 2021)

I have 2500 instruments. No Vepro. No need. I use Cubase and disabled tracks. It's all thoroughly organised.


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## jmquintanacamara (Feb 4, 2021)

ZeroZero said:


> I have 2500 instruments. No Vepro. No need. I use Cubase and disabled tracks. It's all thoroughly organised.


Me too, but Cubase project file size is huge (around 500 MB)... 

For each project, I create a different versions of the music to keep history. So if a project has 10 versions, I have 5 GB of cubase project files! How do you deal with this?


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## ZeroZero (Feb 4, 2021)

jmquintanacamara said:


> Me too, but Cubase project file size is huge (around 500 MB)...
> 
> For each project, I create a different versions of the music to keep history. So if a project has 10 versions, I have 5 GB of cubase project files! How do you deal with this?


IMO 500 mb is manageable however... I don't work directly with my master template. I use it for auditioning only.
Here is the workflow: I have carefully organised it into folders and subfolders - e.g. strings/contrabass/ensembles, etc. Then when creating a piece I take a fresh virgin project and start by using Cubase's Import from Project, under file menu, to import a folder from the master, for say basses and enable them. Once I am happy I have chosen a contrabass I like, I can happily delete the rest in this music piece project without worry, as its still all categorised in the master. If I need a contrabass again I can always go back to the master.
This is easy and quick. It makes no load at all on your music project and does not involve or require Vepro. It just works.
When I get a new product, say an orchestra. I first create a template called say "Only Hollywood Strings", then when happy, I also import these into my master - so this master always carries every instrument I own. I then put the Hollywood material into the correct folders in the master.
Workling this way, I also end up with an 'Only' template for each product. I keep this rule religiously, dont use any new product until it is filed in this manner - in the master and the 'only' template.

The master takes a lot of setting up but it's very worth it. At last you know where you are on your system. I use colour codes systematically and I have saved the master's colour codes as default- and use them in further projects for consistency and clarity.
Two mistakes I made. I first decided to group all my tracks and route them. I thought I could then simply create a 'new template' which would contain nothing but a copy of this routing' This I thought I would use for all new projects. This works, but it creates extra clutter. 
If I wrote my master again, I would not bother and would simply create routing as required in new projects. 
Second mistake was worrying far too much about gain staging. Having researched this matter exhaustively, and having vexed a few people in this forum (LOL)! I have decided there is no need to gain stage a master template, its more accurate to do this in the context of a specific song, depending on what articulations are actually used and in what settings.

I got so fed up with having stufff I forget about and stuff I could not find!

Here is a farily recent copy of my template for you to see: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ai7g90pI7-tKg41WRhMxVQynhsNkiA?e=cczuOj

Z


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## jmquintanacamara (Feb 6, 2021)

ZeroZero said:


> IMO 500 mb is manageable however... I don't work directly with my master template. I use it for auditioning only.
> Here is the workflow: I have carefully organised it into folders and subfolders - e.g. strings/contrabass/ensembles, etc. Then when creating a piece I take a fresh virgin project and start by using Cubase's Import from Project, under file menu, to import a folder from the master, for say basses and enable them. Once I am happy I have chosen a contrabass I like, I can happily delete the rest in this music piece project without worry, as its still all categorised in the master. If I need a contrabass again I can always go back to the master.
> This is easy and quick. It makes no load at all on your music project and does not involve or require Vepro. It just works.
> When I get a new product, say an orchestra. I first create a template called say "Only Hollywood Strings", then when happy, I also import these into my master - so this master always carries every instrument I own. I then put the Hollywood material into the correct folders in the master.
> ...


Thank you so much for taking your time to reply explaining your workflow in detail. 

I also have a only master template very similar to yours (thanks for sharing) but in every project I copied it completely instead of importing group tracks. 

I didn't know about the "import from project" option. I have tried it and it is great, except for it takes like 1 minute and a half loading my master template to select the tracks to import. And I cannot import group tracks (I have checked that this is an improvement in cubase 10.5, so big reason to do the upgrade). 

This is a very inteligent solution to have a clean and smaller cubase file project. The only little inconvenience I see is that you have to wait more than 1 minute each time you import a group track, but it is not a big issue. Thanks @ZeroZero!


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## Scamper (Feb 28, 2021)

I just came across an issue and realization, that reminded me of this topic.

My Cubase template file size was about 95MB and I wanted to see where all this is coming from, so I started to delete tracks and see what happens. Of course, when I deleted more sections and tracks, the file size reduced, but even with every single track and plugin deleted, the file size was still at around 35MB. I noticed, that there was a mixer snapshot and deleting that finally got rid of the 35MB.

I had no idea these snapshots would take up so much space, but since I deleted it in my template, the file size is also down to about 65MB.


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## boinzy (Mar 1, 2021)

Saxer said:


> I keep my templates as small as I can. I hate scrolling and zooming in and out all the time. I have lots of separate templates I can import from other songs. I also don't like disabled tracks. I want the sound to be there on first note. I'm faster with less decisions to make inside a song even if it means I have to replace a section half way in the song. I started every sentence in this post with "I": am I too selfish?


Is it getting solipsistic in here or is it just me? 😂


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