# My Growing Lack of Enthusiasm



## robgb (Jun 7, 2022)

I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.

Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.

Is anyone else experiencing this?


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## toddkreuz (Jun 7, 2022)




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## Vlzmusic (Jun 7, 2022)

I try to focus on real differences some libs might bring to the table, like SA smart delay, new playability the Infinite series might have, upcoming Pacific, Austin Saxes, Staffpad stuff etc.

If there is no sign of novelty/things done differently, I agree with you its just more of the same.


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## NuNativs (Jun 7, 2022)

Time to focus on the MUSIC...


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## Rudianos (Jun 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.
> 
> Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?


I am fairly new to this game. And have bought a lot over the last 20 months. There have been so many releases since then. Not much difference in results, or content from what I see ... I am also done buying since the Orchestral Tools String Bundle. Only 18 days now (collecting each day like a trophy of resilience) ... I have refused Spitfire sale, UVI 8Dio releases ... and don't feel like I have lost a thing! Orchestral Tools sales get the only exception for this... Will wait for Black Friday. And yes I think setting boundaries is so important for emotional resilience. Good on you!


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## kaplain (Jun 7, 2022)

I feel the same as well, but who's the falt? As a developper you get forgotten fast by users if you don't release something every month. We are on a Wavetable sample sound collection for many formats since a year and spend a lot of time making sure those patches are expressive and inspiring.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did.


That is a GOOD thing. That means you have what you need and can spend more energy on creating music.


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## kgdrum (Jun 7, 2022)

I don’t think it’s a lack of enthusiasm as much as you already have a good toolbox in your arsenal and have attained enough of a perspective so you’re not as compelled to succumb to unrelenting GAS!
Somehow you seem disappointed?
I say: Congratulations!


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## Vlzmusic (Jun 7, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> Time to focus on the MUSIC...


Take away from the orchestra their good instruments, and give them Amazon ones - we'll see how that plays out.


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## Markrs (Jun 7, 2022)

I still have to fight hard against genuine deals, like recently Ableton Live 11 for $99 and Studio One 5 for $75 on Knobcloud. Both went with a few minutes of me seeing them, which helped me resist.

To avoid giving in to these deals I quickly reasoned that for Studio One 5, I already had Artist and had gone through the extras in the Pro version in detail and there was little I wanted. For Ableton Live, which I really wanted to try, that it would require learning another piece of software, when I am already swamped with music related things to learn.

There have been sample libraries deals and I have been working hard to rationalise why I would want them and that they would be another thing to learn. I often find I feel unhappy about purchases now shortly after buying, usually because I know they are not really needed. When you are not using what you currently have, you feel like you are replacing before you even used the things you have bought. The hard truth is that there is a point where you are just collecting, or briefly fulfilling a sense of curiosity.

I have bought little so far this year. By controlling my spend, it has meant that new libraries interest me less and less. Some of the ones that do like Soundpaint there is no imperative to buy them straight away as they are fixed price, with no sales.

The only libraries I am struggling to resist are the "modeled" sample libraries or synthesis based. The playability is very tempting, especially with Divisimate, which really suits those type of libraries.

In a way I think subscriptions can be a good thing for this. You can have a large buffet of sample libraries from EastWest and Cinesamples and if you find you didn't use them you can stop the subscription. True you can no longer use them, but then you spent a fraction of the amount than if you paid for them, and they sat idle.


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## cqd (Jun 7, 2022)

Once I realised I had like 4 or 5 complete orchestras, realistically only one of which I'll use in a given project, I realised I have enough..
I still get the odd twinge at times, but as soon as I think about it for a minute I get over it..
And I think I'm going to move towards working with sibelius now I'd say, so who knows how much use they'll get going forward..


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## chrisav (Jun 7, 2022)

Time to find a new obsession! I hear mint-condition collectible cards go for a fair lot these days...


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## Casiquire (Jun 7, 2022)

I've always looked at it in terms of "what do I need" rather than "what's the new feature". It's actually incredibly rare for a new library to offer something THAT new. Different shades of tone and expression, sure, but it's not like there's a drastic difference in "realism" between Hollywood Strings from like twelve years ago and Appassionata or Berlin Con Sordino from this year. The only recent library I own that offers a considerable wealth of things I have always struggled to find elsewhere is MSS.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 7, 2022)

I got a fortune cookie that said: 
"Stop searching everywhere for happiness. It is sitting right beside you. - Confucius"


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## lux (Jun 7, 2022)

On a personal standpoint a good bunch of "lite version" of actual libraries out there would be a wallet destroyer. I sometimes go there hoping for a lighter version of an orchestral libraries and it still says "Size: 130Gbytes uncompressed" and I'm like "ok". There's so many of them I left there just cause I didn't want to put together a pile of ssd's when I basically need a couple good mics and 4 layers most of times. But I know that's probably just me.


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## Polkasound (Jun 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered.


I feel the same way, but I also know it's due to the fact that I now own everything I need to make all the music I want to make. It started nearly 10 years ago with building an arsenal from the ground up. In recent years, it slowed down to plugging the few remaining holes in that arsenal. Now my need for new libraries has been sated.

That doesn't mean I'll automatically pass on new libraries, because I'm always open to adding something I don't have. It's just that I have so many libraries, most of the new stuff coming out is just more of the same.

Analogy: You love pizza, so your freezer is stocked full with all kinds of thin crust, regular crust, and deep dish pizzas. You get hungry, make a pizza, and enjoy it. Five minutes later, someone comes along and tries to sell you a pizza. Obviously, you're not going to be very interested in what he's selling.


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## PeterN (Jun 7, 2022)

Tim_Wells said:


> I got a fortune cookie that said:
> "Stop searching everywhere for happiness. It is sitting right beside you. - Confucius"


I doubt Confucius said that. Just as a sidenote. Confucius is into status, morality, order and family etc. Some guys made the fortune cookies, had hell of a fun, and filled in all kinds of fake stories. Would love to be part of that team.

Confucius can say that a moral person of dignity, stands strong, like a bamboo in the wind. But the happiness crap is fooling Americans.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 7, 2022)

Markrs said:


> When you are not using what you currently have, you feel like you are replacing before you even used the things you have bought. The hard truth is that there is a point where you are just collecting, or briefly fulfilling a sense of curiosity.


This is so true. The current OT strings bundle deal kind of got this ball rolling for me. I went back through all of my string libraries and discovered that I actually have a lot of similar articulations already. For example, I have now come to truly appreciate 8Dio Century Strings; got them for free when I spent a certain amount last year. The con sords are surprisingly good, yet that library sat collecting dust.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 7, 2022)

PeterN said:


> I doubt Confucius said that. Just as a sidenote. Confucius is into status, morality, order and family etc. Some guys made the fortune cookies, had hell of a fun, and filled in all kinds of fake stories. Would love to be part of that team.
> 
> Confucius can say that a moral person of dignity, stands strong, like a bamboo in the wind. But the happiness crap is fooling Americans.


Well, Confucius also said "man who sit on tall toilet is high on pot".


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## lettucehat (Jun 7, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> This is so true. The current OT strings bundle deal kind of got this ball rolling for me. I went back through all of my string libraries and discovered that I actually have a lot of similar articulations already. For example, I have now come to truly appreciate 8Dio Century Strings; got them for free when I spent a certain amount last year. The con sords are surprisingly good, yet that library sat collecting dust.



The con sordino strings on their own I could resist for similar reasons, but that bundle is absolutely deadly. I’m hoping it’s one of the last purchases I make in 2022 but it’s still so early.


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## justthere (Jun 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.
> 
> Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?


Studio Woodwinds can have that effect on a person.


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## Markrs (Jun 7, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> For example, I have now come to truly appreciate 8Dio Century Strings; got them for free when I spent a certain amount last year. The con sords are surprisingly good, yet that library sat collecting dust.


Very much the same for me. I have EW Hollywood Orchestra, BBC SO Pro and 8Dio Century Strings, and together I find they give me plenty of options. For smaller ensembles I think have Intimate Strings, Sessions Strings Pro 2, Cremona Quartet and 8Dio deep solo strings. 

Whilst every library has flaws and yes to a certain extent you will have to write music that works within the limitations of the library, you still get amazing sound and articulations in each one.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 7, 2022)

lettucehat said:


> The con sordino strings on their own I could resist for similar reasons, but that bundle is absolutely deadly. I’m hoping it’s one of the last purchases I make in 2022 but it’s still so early.


Not to sidetrack, but if you don't own any of those OT libraries it's a killer deal. I already own Berlin Strings (most of it) and it's a wonderful library.


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## Corda1983 (Jun 7, 2022)

I think that's inevitable. You spend some time in the game, you become a little wiser, maybe even a tad jaded, so not every new sample library is a must have. 

I think there will always need to be an influx of new libraries for several reasons. Firstly, new people entering the game. I remember lusting after EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Silver back in the day and I still have a special place for the "good ol' days" when I hungered for that library like nothing else - and Symphonic Orchestra will always hold a place for me in that way. 

But people entering the game now may find their rose tinted glasses being put on for the current crop of new libraries - one day they'll be the slightly jaded ones, looking back fondly at the libraries that may seem a little old hat to some of us now. 

Secondly, you're only going to get innovation if people keep turning up new stuff. Although it may not look like much is changing, beneath the bonnet these libraries are always improving and innovating, even if some of them don't hit the mark always. Between each major revolution are a series of small evolutions. So if there's going to be a 'next generation' of sample libraries, these developers have to keep developing, both to keep themselves in business and to figure out how to re-define the industry when the technology aligns. 

I think it's perfectly natural to become jaded about any hobby for a time. You don't need that many sample libraries to make good music, but most of us love collecting them in the same way people love collecting anything - it's a buzz, it feels nice to always have something in the locker to make music with, it's a community and something to be passionate about, and occasionally you genuinely find a gem that changes the way you work. But there's a whole new generation of people who are getting into this for the first time and salivating over each new library and product. It's just the circle of life and all that.
One thing about a hobby though... it'll always tempt you back at some stage!


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## PeterN (Jun 7, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, Confucius also said "man who sit on tall toilet is high on pot".


That explains why his not banned in California yet.


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## lettucehat (Jun 7, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Not to sidetrack, but if you don't own any of those OT libraries it's a killer deal. I already own Berlin Strings (most of it) and it's a wonderful library.


I own a few so it's even harder to resist just completing the bundle, but yes we digress


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## Casiquire (Jun 7, 2022)

lettucehat said:


> The con sordino strings on their own I could resist for similar reasons, but that bundle is absolutely deadly. I’m hoping it’s one of the last purchases I make in 2022 but it’s still so early.


Yeah the bundle is really, really good, I'm sorry to say. I thought I'd never even use the first chairs but it turns out I like the way they sound mixed with BSS and the sordinos, so there isn't a single dud in the whole bundle. I had a great upgrade price though. Otherwise i would never have paid for the first chairs or SFX, even on a decent discount. But I'm glad to have them now.


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## Rudianos (Jun 7, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> This is so true. The current OT strings bundle deal kind of got this ball rolling for me. I went back through all of my string libraries and discovered that I actually have a lot of similar articulations already. For example, I have now come to truly appreciate 8Dio Century Strings; got them for free when I spent a certain amount last year. The con sords are surprisingly good, yet that library sat collecting dust.


those 8dio Century Sordinos are spectacular. Legato is a a little rough but the tone might beat OT in some cases, IDK yet.

The Sul tasto from OT really justified the cost for me. Ponticello is good too. Amongst so much more in the bundle! The mentioned I did not have elsewhere.


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## Loerpert (Jun 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.
> 
> Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?


I think you should compare yourself with someone sitting at an AA meeting saying "Yeah I'm clean for ... months now but I don't know how I feel about it". And I'm sitting next to you with twitching eyes and muscles and severe anxiety.


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## Quasar (Jun 7, 2022)

I totally lost interest in sample libraries a few years ago, a combo of having covered all the essential sounds I wished to have, and DRM keeping me from being interested in new developments.

I regret not having been more aware of the GNU Foundation-like idea of free software (free as in freedom of usage, not as in free of charge) before investing in VIs. My biggest mistake was trusting the challenge-response system that enabled one to activate products offline, being naive to the fact that a company that offers this option can just as easily take it away. If I could start over, I would only purchase products that do not depend on the good graces of a remote process and authority, and instead offer a local license key or file that can be backed-up and used autonomously as one sees fit.

I haven't yet bitten the bullet and thrown away everything that has CP I object to, both because I spent so much money, and because I do not know how to replace many of the sounds and effects I have with righteous alternatives. But I may have to do so, because I cannot sit at my workstation without getting angry, which has ruined my hobby.

To use a crude metaphor, recently Jif peanut butter had a recall of a bunch of their products due to salmonella contamination, and I happened to have a jar that was part of the recall, so I threw it into the trash. If GAS can be likened to a craving for peanut butter, I now have anti-GAS, because news of new sample libraries that require proprietary download managers and remote server activation induce a revulsion similar to the jar of peanut butter that I know to be salmonella infected.


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## chopin4525 (Jun 7, 2022)

Polkasound said:


> You love pizza, so your freezer is stocked full with all kinds of thin crust, regular crust, and deep dish pizzas. You get hungry, make a pizza, and enjoy it.


You did not write this heresy.


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## MartinH. (Jun 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.
> 
> Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?



Maybe you're just finally experiencing the joys of getting old and losing your youthful enthusiasm... 






You're Getting Old - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## muziksculp (Jun 7, 2022)

justthere said:


> Studio Woodwinds can have that effect on a person.


Yes, this is it. I agree. *Stop using Spitfire Studio Woodwinds !*, I don't even dare get close to this library, which I have the Pro version of .  

Your GAS will flow, and you will back in the loop.


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## method1 (Jun 7, 2022)

Quasar said:


> To use a crude metaphor, recently Jif peanut butter had a recall of a bunch of their products due to salmonella contamination, and I happened to have a jar that was part of the recall, so I threw it into the trash. If GAS can be likened to a craving for peanut butter, I now have anti-GAS, because news of new sample libraries that require proprietary download managers and remote server activation induce a revulsion similar to the jar of peanut butter that I know to be salmonella infected.


So I guess you won't be picking up SFA Salmonella Strings then?


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## doctoremmet (Jun 7, 2022)

He should have gotten Xsample Woodwinds on sale. I mean he even thinks they are the woodwinds he has been looking for. But no, he HAD to get an M1 Macbook, a month before they announce M2s. Oh Rob….


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jun 7, 2022)

Quasar said:


> I totally lost interest in sample libraries a few years ago, a combo of having covered all the essential sounds I wished to have, and DRM keeping me from being interested in new developments.
> 
> I regret not having been more aware of the GNU Foundation-like idea of free software (free as in freedom of usage, not as in free of charge) before investing in VIs. My biggest mistake was trusting the challenge-response system that enabled one to activate products offline, being naive to the fact that a company that offers this option can just as easily take it away. If I could start over, I would only purchase products that do not depend on the good graces of a remote process and authority, and instead offer a local license key or file that can be backed-up and used autonomously as one sees fit.
> 
> ...


But almost everything requires C&R or something similar, doesn’t it? Only thing I have that doesn’t is Century Brass, I think.


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## daviddln (Jun 7, 2022)

Maybe the solution to GAS would be to stick to only one developer for orchestral libraries, like VSL, Spitfire or OT. You choose the one you like the most and only buy libraries from them. That way, your expenses would be much more reasonable. And you do the same for other stuff like synths, cinematic and ethnic libraries. Just an idea.


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## jonnybutter (Jun 7, 2022)

justthere said:


> Studio Woodwinds can have that effect on a person.


I came to read this thread to strengthen my resolve, but…oh hey, I _do_ need some woodwinds..😭.

I have had this problem for sure, but the happy medium for me is to try to mainly get stuff that will make my paying jobs easier/faster/better. That is often totally worth it. Or sometimes a new VI (preferably not a huge string library!) will jumpstart ideas for clients. Anything that gets you out of your head a bit.

But it’s an obsession sometimes, and too easy to forget: software is easy; composing is hard.


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## RogiervG (Jun 7, 2022)

I also am lesser to impress with new products than it used to be.
Although i like to speculate in certain speculative threads. And such..
I am good for now with what i have (quite a few libraries for daw use and staffpad editions of several too).

Let's see what the future brings, and if it triggers my "want it" feeling.


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## AlbertSmithers (Jun 7, 2022)

I'm also not buying stuff anymore tbh. I got a handful of instruments from the 8dio sales last year + TSS and that kept me pretty happy. I think now I'm finding more value & hype in paying for music tutoring + lessons =)

oh also.. putting all my instruments into a template also helped me realize to what extent I already have a lot of stuff, and the thought of getting more instruments and mixing them to work well in my template sounds not fun


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 7, 2022)

PeterN said:


> I doubt Confucius said that. Just as a sidenote. Confucius is into status, morality, order and family etc. Some guys made the fortune cookies, had hell of a fun, and filled in all kinds of fake stories. Would love to be part of that team.
> 
> Confucius can say that a moral person of dignity, stands strong, like a bamboo in the wind. But the happiness crap is fooling Americans.


He mentions good government making people happy, and obtains when those near are happy; and that's about it for happiness as far as the Analects go.

Aristotle, by contrast, has a huge amount to say about Eudaimonia - a conception of happiness that is very rich but not chiefly psychological/affective.

But for well-thought through ideas on human nature, society and happiness, David Hume would be a great choice.

Neither Aristotle or Hume are very Chinese, though. Maybe a bit, I couldn't swear not; but not very.


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## PeterN (Jun 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> He mentions good government making people happy, and obtains when those near are happy; and that's about it for happiness as far as the Analects go.
> 
> Aristotle, by contrast, has a huge amount to say about Eudaimonia - a conception of happiness that is very rich but not chiefly psychological/affective.
> 
> ...


I dont believe any analysis that uses the word "happiness" in relation to Confucius. Or "happy" as you put it. I mean, even if written on a paper, or even found in some online some journalism. That's just a piece of paper. Under these circumstances, where "happiness" is used as terminology, especially in relation to Asian thought history, the concept has sliced over to the North American (USA) hemisphere.



Anyways.

---

Over here in the real world, we dont even have time to ponder "happiness".


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## muratkayi (Jun 7, 2022)

I really still like to check all kinds of new products, but more and more I end up trying to reproduce stuff I like with what I already have...

It is so much fun and I managed to come up with mock-up versions for Thermal, RC-20, LCO textures, Arkhis and whatnot. Of course, it's always only just similar to it or I can mimic the handling better than the sample sources or something, but still. All in all, I tend to get more excited about the idea behind a new product by now and then set out to shamelessly copy it with whatever I have lying around (and if you throw Reaktor/VCV/Toybox in the mix, things get very far processing wise).

Of course, whenever there is a new Bartok-superflautando-AI-airlegato baroque viola using a whole terabyte of round robins for phrased shorts I get all wobbly around the f-holes, but other than that I'm fine.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 7, 2022)

PeterN said:


> I dont believe any analysis that uses the word "happiness" in relation to Confucius. Or "happy" as you put it. I mean, even if written on a paper, or even found in some online some journalism. That's just a piece of paper. Under these circumstances, where "happiness" is used as terminology, especially in relation to Asian thought history, the concept has sliced over to the North American (USA) hemisphere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay. Obviously it is a translation as happiness isn't a Chinese word. I have not found it to be an alien notion amongst the Chinese people I've discussed it with, though.


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## Markrs (Jun 7, 2022)

AlbertSmithers said:


> I think now I'm finding more value & hype in paying for music tutoring + lessons =)


Education is definitely the best investment, I just wish I had more time and the focus to get through all the courses and books I have.


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## PeterN (Jun 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Okay. Obviously it is a translation as happiness isn't a Chinese word. I have not found it to be an alien notion amongst the Chinese people I've discussed it with, though.


Money, work, education, face and family comes first. Probably even a gold nugget will be on the priority list ahead of happiness.


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## Michael Antrum (Jun 7, 2022)

Confucius say, "Passion is like spider's web. It leads to flies undoing......"

Smart guy was Confy


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## Mike Fox (Jun 7, 2022)

Whenever i feel that way I go back and watch watchthroughs of the libraries I already purchased and it usually reminds me why i bought the library in the first place. Definitely an easy way to get some inspiration/motivation.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 7, 2022)

PeterN said:


> Money, work, education, face and family comes first. Probably even a gold nugget with be on the priority list ahead of happiness.


You list it as one item amongst others. Aristotle, for example, regards it instead as the harmonious balance of all elements of life. My guess is that Confucious meant something closer to contentment; but beyond my area of expertise. By which I mean that my Confucious-era Mandarin isn't that great.


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## PeterN (Jun 7, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but even with all of those things, you can still be unhappy, no? None of those things guarantees happiness.


Its not about happiness. That's the point. The happiness thing is American.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 7, 2022)

PeterN said:


> Its not about happiness. That's the point. The happiness thing is American.


Well, we can agree to disagree.


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## PeterN (Jun 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> You list it as one item amongst others. Aristotle, for example, regards it instead as the harmonious balance of all elements of life. My guess is that Confucious meant something closer to contentment; but beyond my area of expertise. By which I mean that my Confucious-era Mandarin isn't that great.


The word harmonious is used. This is a lot more collective based than individualistic contentment. Americans have pulled the individualistic contentment further, with stretching individual happiness to the point of inflation. Heh! That being said, I guess I need to say, Americans are great. This is not any criticism.


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## jonnybutter (Jun 7, 2022)

Can a lack grow? Is this just a sneaky way to get a koan stuck in our heads?


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## Quasar (Jun 7, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> But almost everything requires C&R or something similar, doesn’t it? Only thing I have that doesn’t is Century Brass, I think.


If you mean the 8Dio library, it still requires the full version of Kontakt, which in turn requires Native Access and the cooperation with NI's remote server...

...But with that caveat, I much prefer libraries from devs who do not pay the player fees to NI and are for full Kontakt only, because at least the library itself isn't under the auspices of Native Access.

There are still companies that give the end user local control after purchase, especially many of the smaller effects developers. But for orchestral music there's basically nothing, alas, except Garritan. All of the major developers are either enslaved to NI, or have their own engines that also require remote access to activate.


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## NuNativs (Jun 7, 2022)

I'm not trying to be rude, but we have laptops that contain the power and sound generating and processing tech that used to fill rooms in the 80's. 

At a certain point, I think the study of music, which is infinite, should become more important than endless sample and plugin hoarding once your needs are met, but that may vary as we know.

This quote from a VI-C member sums it up nicely (no offense whatsover I struggle as well): 
I think anyone like me, with 5 2Tb Samsung T5s and a couple of T7s filled to the brim is seriously not in any sort of “need” ever again and is literally incapable of A) keeping track of what is even on them B) let alone having the time left to play every patch once for more than 2 seconds.


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## GtrString (Jun 7, 2022)

I try to fill out the gaps with virtual instruments, but they don’t give me the same tactile joy as my lovely guitars. I really enjoy playing a physical instrument, and when I’ve done the work with software, thats still what I get back to.


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## Double Helix (Jun 7, 2022)

muratkayi said:


> . . . I get all wobbly around the f-holes, but other than that I'm fine.


There is corrective surgery for that now



Bee_Abney said:


> . . . But for well-thought through ideas on human nature, society and happiness, David Hume would be a great choice.


+1
Hume and Bertrand Russell are my two go-tooze


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## Casiquire (Jun 7, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Whenever i feel that way I go back and watch watchthroughs of the libraries I already purchased and it usually reminds me why i bought the library in the first place. Definitely an easy way to get some inspiration/motivation.


I love doing this! It relieves all my gas.






But for real. Watching walkthroughs also helps point out how much I fall into a routine over time and that libraries I own are capable of expression I'm not in the habit of reaching for. I'll see walkthroughs going into detail about the dark corners of libraries I've forgotten all about, and there can be gold hiding there.



GtrString said:


> I try to fill out the gaps with virtual instruments, but they don’t give me the same tactile joy as my lovely guitars. I really enjoy playing a physical instrument, and when I’ve done the work with software, thats still what I get back to.


I agree, with the exception of instruments and articulations that are entirely out of my reach. Sometimes it's nice to be able to play a keyboard and hear a woman's voice, or a whole section, or something virtuosic. That can bring me joy.


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## justthere (Jun 7, 2022)

“Shopping at my studio” is a common ritual for me wherein I go through the drives and find things that I bought that hot set to the side because they weren’t in the project I was working on. But often I will find that I’m not using something because it didn’t live up to its promise. To me the library -buying thing is like this: either I see a lack in what I already have, discover a thing I don’t have that will take me further, or find an utterly new thing that genuinely supplants what I have because the tech has moved forward. If one is working a lot, one realizes the burden of integrating a new library: bringing it into the template, balancing it sonically with the template, setting up articulation maps, customizing the patches… that’s a fairly big deterrent to buying a new woodwind library. *Unless it’s utterly new. *So if you bought Infinite Woodwinds or AudioModeling Woodwinds, that is a whole different thing from conventional libraries that honestly don’t have much better as far as sample playback since VSL. And I still use that stuff sometimes because it’s well made, well-recorded, recorded dry and absolutely useful.


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## Futchibon (Jun 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase.


I'm surprised you'd call SStWW a 'big purchase'. It's pretty cheap and it sounds that way. In most cases you get what you pay for.


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## Trash Panda (Jun 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.
> 
> Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?


Yes, dear money dispenser valued customer, it is the same instruments, the section same sizes and the same articulations we have sampled hundreds of times before. Yes, disposable cash cow dear consumer, the workflow is basically the same as what we have scripted hundreds of times before.

But check this out before you check out.






We did it in a new room that no one has sampled in before!

We did it with even more worldlier-class world-class musicians!

We did it with seventeen creative new microphone techniques!

Now shut up and give us your money, you ungrateful MIDI monkeys! Today, I am very excited to present...


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## robgb (Jun 7, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> He should have gotten Xsample Woodwinds on sale. I mean he even thinks they are the woodwinds he has been looking for. But no, he HAD to get an M1 Macbook, a month before they announce M2s. Oh Rob….


Meh. The announcement doesn't bother me. I've learned that with computers you are NEVER ahead of the curve and frankly, this M1 is fantastic.


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## Nigel Andreola (Jun 7, 2022)

When new releases no longer get you exited, make your own instruments. I expect that's how a lot of developers got their start.


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## robgb (Jun 7, 2022)

daviddln said:


> Maybe the solution to GAS would be to stick to only one developer for orchestral libraries, like VSL, Spitfire or OT. You choose the one you like the most and only buy libraries from them. That way, your expenses would be much more reasonable. And you do the same for other stuff like synths, cinematic and ethnic libraries. Just an idea.


The problem with that—for me at least—is that I don't think developers are consistent enough with the quality of their libraries. For example, I love Spitfire's Studio Strings Core, but (as I said above) I'm unhappy with Studio Woodwinds and wish I could return them. So I find I prefer to buy sections based on the quality of the library, not who makes them. I don't really give a shit about what room they were recorded in unless that room is truly horrible. And I haven't really seen that happen.


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## robgb (Jun 7, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> I'm surprised you'd call SStWW a 'big purchase'. It's pretty cheap and it sounds that way. In most cases you get what you pay for.


I consider any library dedicated to a single section that costs $200 or more to be a big purchase. I also think that most sample libraries are vastly overpriced considering the fact that you usually can't return or resell them.

I paid $88 for Anthology strings and they don't sound cheap at all. I paid very little (maybe $20) for 8DioOboe and it sounds fantastic. Price does not have anything to do with quality.


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## CT (Jun 7, 2022)

I think VI-Control would be a healthier place if there were a lot more people doing and sharing actual music, even tiny bits of it, and discussing how to do that, how to use these tools as well as possible, instead of the much more prominent consumer-mania and treating this stuff like a sink for white collar job disposable income that, seemingly, never gets used for much.

I regret if it comes off as self-righteous or harsh, but it's always the same story with these threads, and I wonder if the lesson is ever really learned. Obviously anyone can choose to spend their time and money in whatever way seems best to them, but man, there is so much waste that seems to go on in this niche, and the fact that these threads keep happening, that people have to publicly talk themselves down from buying compulsively, and that there are YouTube gurus making videos about it, all seems to point to it being a problem.

Feeling empty after expending your money? There's a solution. Figure out what you need based on actually cultivating your musical perspective, soul, and character, instead of buying a bunch of stuff in the hope that it will hold your hand to an identity and a satisfying result. Then, _write some music_. It's not "professional vs. hobbyist," it's "musician vs. bottlecap collector."


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## method1 (Jun 7, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> bottlecap collector


Bottlecap Collector? Is this a new library? Where can i get it?!


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## CT (Jun 7, 2022)

As for the initial point about being increasingly less impressed by what developers do... yes. There are some patterns most have fallen into, and new territory that most seem unwilling to explore. Small incremental improvements, if any. Definitely frustrating at times.


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## Robert_G (Jun 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> * After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase.* I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?


Well what did you expect? After I purchased Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core, I went into the fetal position for a week in the basement. They finally coaxed me out with a box of Lindt Chocolates and a bbq pork chop.


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## jmauz (Jun 7, 2022)

Enthusiasm for material possessions (i.e. sample libraries) doesn't last. 

Enthusiasm for creativity and inspiration lasts a lifetime. 

If what attracted you to this artform was the gear and the software, you may have reached the end of your interest and will file this away as another of your hobbies. There's no shame in that.


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## Futchibon (Jun 7, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> Well what did you expect? After I purchased Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core, I went into the fetal position for a week in the basement. They finally coaxed me out with a box of Lindt Chocolates and a bbq pork chop.


Ah, that would explain your dislike of SA. I've always wondered as we seem to have similar tastes with other libraries. You shouldn't base your opinion on one library, let alone one that is generally regarded not very highly. If OACE had been your first SA library, I'm sure you'd be a SA fanboi by now 

Btw, you know Spitfire owns Lindt, right?


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## szczaw (Jun 7, 2022)

My enthusiasm is growing with addition of new VSL line.


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## alcorey (Jun 7, 2022)

szczaw said:


> My enthusiasm is growing with addition of new VSL line.


WOW! ................ Variable Sinus Legatos - The New Quintet

and 14 days to trial them before you have to return


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## LamaRose (Jun 7, 2022)

PeterN said:


> Money, work, education, face and family comes first. Probably even a gold nugget will be on the priority list ahead of happiness.


A sad, yet faithful truism.


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## PeterN (Jun 7, 2022)

LamaRose said:


> A sad, yet faithful truism.


Well, that can be argued.

Belonging to Western artists , most of us wouldn't fall in that category though. We would be on opposite side. Some by choice, some have been destined. Like, genetically. Or maybe even a God threw the *artist curse. *

Enjoy


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## Gingerbread (Jun 7, 2022)

Presumably, many of us originally came to VI Control from a desire to turn our musical ideas (probably mostly piano musings) into filmscore-esque works. But once here, we found a rabbit hole which distorted our original intentions, focused on the wrong things, with a pervasive drumbeat on acquiring the latest-and-greatest gear and software, and an over-emphasis on production gizmos.

Certainly for me, that wasn't the original intention. I came wanting only to know what basic libraries I should get....and then that would be it. _But I'm as guilty as everyone else of getting sidetracked down the VI Control gear-road. And frankly, that's bad._

Like OP, I'm pleased that over the last 12 months, I've almost completely curtailed all new purchases. I'm over it. I'm happy with what I have. There is no new game-changing technology that will fundamentally improve my music. My music only improves from my own composition/orchestration/production skill level and practice, *nothing* else.


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## Crowe (Jun 8, 2022)

I don't know about all this or about 'excitement for sample libraries' in general. I've seen the process of acquisition these past few years as me gathering knowledge and tools in order to create sound and music. I've now basically bought almost everything I decided I wanted and this is where it'll "end".

I have no idea why I would want Century Strings *and *CSS *and *Afflatus *and *Hollywood Strings *and *Symphony Strings *and *Aeira *and *Berlin strings and the list goes on. I dont fault anyone who does want them all, but I just don't see the point. At some point, the paint you have *has to do.*

Paint itself generally shouldn't be the exciting part of painting, I think.

Not to mention the whole thing about diminishing returns. It's nice that progress is a thing but seriously, Hollywood Strings is good enough.


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## ZeroZero (Jun 8, 2022)

TBH as a multi-instrumentalist, I have never been impressed with sampling based tech. My goto piano is TruePianos (free trial) a modelling piano - it's truly expressive. Piano of course lends itself to modelling, because basically "all" that happens is one strikes a key at a given velocity and the note is delivered. The sustain pedal is the only variable of a struck note (given same room/lid).
Winds Strings and brass and many other instruments are very different and much more complex because the note starts then is physically sustained by the player, whom controls (personalises) vibrato. Other factors are customies too - the transition between notes is very different between say a trombone, trumpet, hsrp and violin. The embrouchure used by brass and woods is customised. The idea the idea that one can emulate such instruments with a selected (pp/mf/ff) attack sample then a sustain sample and a decay sample is a gross simplification and is frankly, LAME to my ears.
As for percussion, when, for example, a drummer hits a skin, he never hits it in the same place twice, or with the same velocity and the resultant changes in timbre are controlled, often unconsciously. This is poorly reflected in sample based percussion.
Most orchestral sample instruments are based on some form of this tech, sometimes with extra features, but this is the core of the technology.
Up until now, modelling of instruments has lagged behind - with some notable exceptions (piano, Hammond). Not only do we need accurate modelling, but we also need an intuitive interface and control surface to access the particular sounds.
Modelling is moving forward and i have been very impressed by the work of Audiomodeling. I wished they would release a demo.
I think there will soon be a sea change to modelling and we will get modelling based orchestras which are more expressive and intuitive


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## gh0stwrit3r (Jun 8, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.
> 
> Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?


This sounds so familiar! I haven't bought any new library for a while now. Stopped being part of the marketing rush and anxiety that I might miss a new diamond. Then I bought myself a titanium gravel bike and emptied my wallet anyway. But oh my, that bike really makes me a happy person


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## TomislavEP (Jun 8, 2022)

More and more I'm finding myself rather immune and indifferent to all these announcements of new products and titles. One of the reasons is the fact that I'm making the ends meet only with music and I'm currently not in a position to invest in new software as much I was able to in not so distant path. Fortunately, I have now reached the phase of having a well-rounded toolkit with pretty much an itemized list of potential gaps to fill out in the future. Also, I'm trying to overcome these with freeware as much as possible. Although the freeware scene is at its peak nowadays, unfortunately, there are still areas where you need to go commercial.

Many will likely argue that software is constantly evolving and that you need to follow as much as you can. Others might say that it has reached a level of general maturity. Personally, I think that a quality-produced library can withstand the tests of time, especially if it inspires you to be creative with it. Not all of us can afford to follow the ongoing trends, nor do we really want to do so.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jun 8, 2022)

We sure are having a holier-than-thou approach in this thread, eh!


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## jononotbono (Jun 8, 2022)

You should buy them all again to give them a second chance!


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## pinki (Jun 8, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> I think VI-Control would be a healthier place if there were a lot more people doing and sharing actual music, even tiny bits of it, and discussing how to do that, how to use these tools as well as possible, instead of the much more prominent consumer-mania and treating this stuff like a sink for white collar job disposable income that, seemingly, never gets used for much.
> 
> I regret if it comes off as self-righteous or harsh, but it's always the same story with these threads, and I wonder if the lesson is ever really learned. Obviously anyone can choose to spend their time and money in whatever way seems best to them, but man, there is so much waste that seems to go on in this niche, and the fact that these threads keep happening, that people have to publicly talk themselves down from buying compulsively, and that there are YouTube gurus making videos about it, all seems to point to it being a problem.
> 
> Feeling empty after expending your money? There's a solution. Figure out what you need based on actually cultivating your musical perspective, soul, and character, instead of buying a bunch of stuff in the hope that it will hold your hand to an identity and a satisfying result. Then, _write some music_. It's not "professional vs. hobbyist," it's "musician vs. bottlecap collector."


I think the fact that this post got (currently) 26 likes in a matter of hours seems to indicate there is indeed a level of addiction going on that is not healthy...though I guess it's no different than iPhones etc and hasn't it always been thus?


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## Chris Schmidt (Jun 8, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> We sure are having a holier-than-thou approach in this thread, eh!


My lack of enthusiasm has been growing since I was born.


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## Stan Stewart (Jun 8, 2022)

Sometimes, when I read the "big sale! 3 days only!" or other similar ads from the various VI/sample library folk, I feel that old urge to check it out. 90% of the time, I go listen and think to myself, "Wait: I already have LibraryA and LibraryB that do this kind of sounds. Perhaps I should spend _time learning to use them to the max rather than money on this new library." Honestly, I'm happier doing this.
Of course, there are still those rare moments when I drool over some sale for a few seconds. These days, I mostly talk myself out of it and go back to making and delivering music.
(I think I see several people saying similar things in this thread. That seems like a resilient and healthy response to some of the stuff companies try to sell to we composers and musicians.)_


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## Roger Newton (Jun 8, 2022)

Nigel Andreola said:


> When new releases no longer get you exited, make your own instruments. I expect that's how a lot of developers got their start.


Or start collecting or making a collection of real players to add to your track. Get involved with microphones and the paraphernalia that goes with recording actual sound and players.

Sample libraries are tools for making money. That's all they are. If you are a hobbyist then the amount of money you spend on any kind of hobby doesn't matter. It' doesn't really count. 

I have the same issue with Porsches. Even at my advancing age.


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## Leslie Fuller (Jun 8, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Education is definitely the best investment, I just wish I had more time and the focus to get through all the courses and books I have.


Completely agree here @Markrs! Focussing on learning a little each day. GAS is not a problem for me, and I only go for bargains when they arise (thanks @Markrs regarding Eventide today!). Also, will get into Komplete this current NI Summer Sale, and only missing out on another Percussion library to go with SAGA!


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## szczaw (Jun 8, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> I think VI-Control would be a healthier place if there were a lot more people doing and sharing actual music, even tiny bits of it, and discussing how to do that, how to use these tools as well as possible, instead of the much more prominent consumer-mania and treating this stuff like a sink for white collar job disposable income that, seemingly, never gets used for much.


Verta's forum is strictly for composing. There could be others. Significant part of this one is for new releases, deals and legatos.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jun 8, 2022)

method1 said:


> Bottlecap Collector? Is this a new library? Where can i get it?!


Piano book


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## from_theashes (Jun 8, 2022)

chrisav said:


> Time to find a new obsession! I hear mint-condition collectible cards go for a fair lot these days...


Don’t get me started on Magic The Gathering, man!


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## from_theashes (Jun 8, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.
> 
> Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?


But tbh, I feel the same… but not in a bad way at all! I think it’s great to have all the tools I need, to make the music I want and not be like… „meh, maybe this or that library gets me further in bla bla bla.“
I feel totally set, without any need to buy any sample library at all.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 8, 2022)

alcorey said:


> WOW! ................ Variable Sinus Legatos - The New Quintet
> 
> and 14 days to trial them before you have to return


Nah, I find the tone too "nasally".


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## robgb (Jun 8, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> Feeling empty after expending your money?


Has anyone complained of feeling empty? My problem is exactly the opposite. I'm full. Very full. 
So much so that I have no reason to order any more dinner. I'm satisfied with what I have.

I consider this a pretty healthy place to be rather than a slave to gear acquisition syndrome.

I don't, however, consider the acquisition of gear, and the enjoyment that goes along with it, to be something that takes away from my creativity. Sometimes a new piece of gear INSPIRES creativity. So the advice that I should now settle down and concentrate on my music is good advice, but it assumes that craving new libraries has somehow prevented me from doing so. I think most of us are capable of lusting for new gear while simultaneously working with what we have.

My only point is that there doesn't really seem to be anything new under the sun. Nothing I really need more than I already have, and a lot of the hype is so nakedly manipulative, designed to prey on our GAS, that I'm happy to be at the point where my reaction is usually "meh."

There are some new libraries I find impressive, but when I do side by side comparisons (via walkthroughs) with what I already have, I find that what I already have is not only sufficient, but oftentimes superior. So those shiny new objects are rarely attractive to me.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 8, 2022)

PeterN said:


> I doubt Confucius said that. Just as a sidenote. Confucius is into status, morality, order and family etc. Some guys made the fortune cookies, had hell of a fun, and filled in all kinds of fake stories. Would love to be part of that team.
> 
> Confucius can say that a moral person of dignity, stands strong, like a bamboo in the wind. But the happiness crap is fooling Americans.


That's why I attributed it to a fortune cookie, rather than Confucius directly. I think the quote is still meaningful, despite playing fast and loose with Confucius quotes.


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## PeterN (Jun 8, 2022)

Tim_Wells said:


> That's why I attributed it to a fortune cookie, rather than Confucius directly. I think the quote is still meaningful, despite playing fast and loose with Confucius quotes.


Well.

I wonder when (and why) Americans started so vehemently to pursue happiness. This is something we see objectively in you guys, even from Europe. I doubt you find it in, say, Steinbecks books. My guess is it started around 80s. Then multiplied over the decades. For various reasons. Now its too late to find it. Its gone. Heh.

Only the sweet taste of the fortune cookie remains.


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## Trash Panda (Jun 8, 2022)

PeterN said:


> Well.
> 
> I wonder when (and why) Americans started so vehemently to pursue happiness. This is something we see objectively in you guys, even from Europe. I doubt you find it in, say, Steinbecks books. My guess is it started around 80s. Then multiplied over the decades. For various reasons. Now its too late to find it. Its gone. Heh.
> 
> Only the sweet taste of the fortune cookie remains.


As with most things in this age, it's likely all the American Boomers' fault. Eternally chasing a return to the coveted post WW2 period of their youth and dragging us down with them in the process.

Not all Boomers are bad like this, but a big enough chunk of them are that our only way to course correct is to wait for nature to take its course so Gen X or the Millennials can clean up their mess.


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## Robert_G (Jun 8, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> Btw, you know Spitfire owns Lindt, right?


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## PeterN (Jun 8, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> As with most things in this age, it's likely all the American Boomers' fault. Eternally chasing a return to the coveted post WW2 period of their youth and dragging us down with them in the process.
> 
> Not all Boomers are bad like this, but a big enough chunk of them are that our only way to course correct is to wait for nature to take its course so Gen X or the Millennials can clean up their mess.


Im unable to read the sarcasm, but its probably there

Happiness is one small part of life, isn't it. It comes and goes. It doesn't stay. Some claim to have found it. Permanently, sort of. Usually in marketing purposes.

Guess it would make more sense to pursue picking stinging nettles for a soup, or something. Fu.k happiness, let them keep it.


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## MauroPantin (Jun 8, 2022)

The only thing I want to check out is the Abbey Road modular orchestra. It's the holy grail. But even then, it's another orchestra and I already have enough of everything, so I don't know if I'll end up getting it or not.


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## Casiquire (Jun 8, 2022)

Crowe said:


> I don't know about all this or about 'excitement for sample libraries' in general. I've seen the process of acquisition these past few years as me gathering knowledge and tools in order to create sound and music. I've now basically bought almost everything I decided I wanted and this is where it'll "end".
> 
> I have no idea why I would want Century Strings *and *CSS *and *Afflatus *and *Hollywood Strings *and *Symphony Strings *and *Aeira *and *Berlin strings and the list goes on. I dont fault anyone who does want them all, but I just don't see the point. At some point, the paint you have *has to do.*
> 
> ...


This, so much! I do think it's important to have a good range of strings and choirs, but that doesn't mean buy every single one, it just means have a good range that covers your needs. It's true that they each sing differently, but that doesn't mean you need them all, that means you need to get ones that can cover 80% of your needs without much tweaking and then figure out how to manipulate what you have to get to 98% (with samples we can't ever really get to 100%). There's a grain of truth to it when people say no string library is complete therefore you need them all, but I think "all" is hyperbolic. Just "all that it takes to cover the majority of your needs" which, honestly, can even be one or two. I could see someone happily getting along with just Hollywood and Dimension Strings, or just SSS and SCS. The range of possibilities when you know one library extremely well is far wider than if you have every single library ever made but only know the basics of each.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 8, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I could see someone happily getting along with just Hollywood and Dimension Strings


Actually, I exclusively used Hollywood Strings for many years. In hindsight, I should have have left well enough alone. But hindsight is 20/20 and we get distracted with the shiny new things.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 8, 2022)

PeterN said:


> Well.
> 
> I wonder when (and why) Americans started so vehemently to pursue happiness. This is something we see objectively in you guys, even from Europe. I doubt you find it in, say, Steinbecks books. My guess is it started around 80s. Then multiplied over the decades. For various reasons. Now its too late to find it. Its gone. Heh.
> 
> Only the sweet taste of the fortune cookie remains.


Maybe it'd been better if the fake, fortune cookie Confucius had said... "Stop searching everywhere for contentment/acceptance/peace of mind/etc. It is sitting right beside you." ??? ♥️


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## PeterN (Jun 8, 2022)

Tim_Wells said:


> Maybe it'd been better if the fake, fortune cookie Confucius had said... "Stop searching everywhere for contentment/acceptance/peace of mind/etc. It is sitting right beside you." ??? ♥️


I think the best would be:

"Stop searching everywhere for happiness, there's other more important and meaningful things to do."


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## cqd (Jun 8, 2022)

After all my talk in this thread (well, my one comment) in a momentary lapse of reason last night I bought the infinite series..


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 8, 2022)

PeterN said:


> I think the best would be:
> 
> "Stop searching everywhere for happiness, there's other more important and meaningful things to do."


"Life, Liberty and the *pursuit of Happiness*" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence. 

So @Trash Panda can't blame it on us Boomers.


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## PeterN (Jun 8, 2022)

Tim_Wells said:


> "Life, Liberty and the *pursuit of Happiness*" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence.
> 
> So @Trash Panda can't blame it on us Boomers.


A-haa. So maybe that's part of the reason the happiness is pushed everywhere in USA. Oh shit, this needs a new perspective, and new thinking, I *sign off* this task for today. Planning to make some music actually. Might be back!


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## Michel Simons (Jun 8, 2022)

cqd said:


> After all my talk in this thread (well, my one comment) in a momentary lapse of reason last night I bought the infinite series..


Last week I bought the 2019 remix of A Momentary Lapse Of Reason.


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## cqd (Jun 8, 2022)

Michel Simons said:


> Last week I bought the 2019 remix of A Momentary Lapse Of Reason.


Do they have like break beats behind it or something?..


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## dzilizzi (Jun 8, 2022)

Polkasound said:


> Analogy: You love pizza, so your freezer is stocked full with all kinds of thin crust, regular crust, and deep dish pizzas. You get hungry, make a pizza, and enjoy it. Five minutes later, someone comes along and tries to sell you a pizza. Obviously, you're not going to be very interested in what he's selling.


There's always room for more Pizza. Especially with extra cheese. 

Hmmmm......

Yeah, so that is how I feel about string libraries..... the cheesier the better...


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## Casiquire (Jun 8, 2022)

PeterN said:


> Well.
> 
> I wonder when (and why) Americans started so vehemently to pursue happiness. This is something we see objectively in you guys, even from Europe. I doubt you find it in, say, Steinbecks books. My guess is it started around 80s. Then multiplied over the decades. For various reasons. Now its too late to find it. Its gone. Heh.
> 
> Only the sweet taste of the fortune cookie remains.


That's always been an American thing. There was the "American Dream" and "American Standard of Living" stuff throughout the whole 20th century. The very Declaration of Independence talks about "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".[edit, looks like others best me to the punch there lol!] But happiness and consumerism weren't quite so tied together until after industrialization, imo, and things got REALLY bad through the 80s as moneyed interests tipped the scales in favor of corporate (and already-wealthy) power. The shift was especially pronounced in America but it did happen worldwide. Today pretty much any goods attract consumer frenzy in the margins, but sample libraries, being niche, are basically all in the margins so we see the frenzy everywhere we look


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## dzilizzi (Jun 8, 2022)

PeterN said:


> A-haa. So maybe that's part of the reason the happiness is pushed everywhere in USA. Oh shit, this needs a new perspective, and new thinking, I *sign off* this task for today. Planning to make some music actually. Might be back!


Only the *pursuit* of Happiness. You aren't actually allowed to *be* happy. Just get to chase it for the rest of your life.


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## SoftSynthLover99 (Jun 8, 2022)

With all the spitfire audio, heavyocity, ProjectSAM, Orchestral Tools, Native Instruments and many other developer libraries I’ve acquired over the last 10-15 years, I STILL get excited when I see a new and interesting library come out lol. 

I have pretty much every genre, every synth sound, every orchestral library worth having inside Kontakt covered, yet when I see something like Naroth Audio Bloom or Native Instruments LORES I’m instantly excited! 

I look at it this way as a professional songwriter/composer/artist, the tools we use to create music are basically there to make us more efficient, keep us inspired and creative, and generate new ideas.

Countless times I’ve loaded up a new library and it instantly sparked a new song idea or track.

You have to find that balance and learn which libraries will be useful to you and inspire you, THEN op I think you will find excitement and enthusiasm when something comes along that you enjoy.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 8, 2022)

I have to say, I understand this. It wasn't that my drives were full or that I have to much to learn that got me to this. It was one of my back up drives crashing and trying to figure out whether I had something backed up that made me realize I have too much stuff. I don't use it all. Do I really need to keep all those free libraries I got when I first started? And all those sound files from CM magazine that I keep in the hopes of finding a use for them? Why? 

But seriously, it is an addiction. Maybe we need a Forum section for VI Anonymous where we can go and talk each other out of buying?


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## Bovinator (Jun 8, 2022)

“Confusious” has much wisdom:

Give a man a musical instrument and he will make sweet music all his days;
Give a man a Spitfire library and he will loose his hair wondering why his compositions sound out of time and out of tune.


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## Polkasound (Jun 8, 2022)

pinki said:


> I think the fact that this post got (currently) 26 likes in a matter of hours seems to indicate there is indeed a level of addiction going on that is not healthy...though I guess it's no different than iPhones etc and hasn't it always been thus?


I think it got likes because just it's a very well-written post, but your point about there being an unhealthy addiction for some people is worthy of discussion.

Y'all know I like my theories, so here goes one:

A few years ago, someone started a popular thread asking what all of us VI-Control members do for a living. I was amazed at how many people worked in information technology. It seemed like every other person who answered said they worked in IT. Look at how popular the threads about DAWs are, and you'll see how technically-oriented many of us VI-Control members are.

My theory is that when technically-oriented people who love music begin dabbling in music creation, at some point, their passion is naturally going to shift from the music creation to the software-based tools used to create the music. They still have a desire to make music, but it gets overshadowed by the tools — the marketing, purchasing, and discussion thereof.

This in itself is perfectly healthy. When you think about all the people who sit on bar stools all day and (quite literally) piss their money away, spending money on VI libraries, if only just to tinker with them now and then and talk about them, is a very respectable pastime to have.

But if someone keeps expecting the next library they buy to be the catalyst that inspires them to switch from tech mode to creation mode and accomplish their composing dreams, that's when it becomes unhealthy. If someone is sitting on 250 VI libraries and isn't feeling inspired to create, the 251st library, let alone the 2,501st library, isn't going to change anything.


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## SkyPirate (Jun 8, 2022)

Bovinator said:


> “Confusious” has much wisdom:
> 
> Give a man a musical instrument and he will make sweet music all his days;
> Give a man a Spitfire library and he will loose his hair wondering why his compositions sound out of time and out of tune.


Jangle Box below middle C?


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## vitocorleone123 (Jun 8, 2022)

I don’t collect many libraries (still have more than needed), but was definitely collecting plugins.

I consider it research. Yes, probably “wasted” a solid $1,000 on stuff I don’t use or have since given away or sold for a fraction of the cost, but I’m more confident now in what I like, need, and actually use.

I’ve slimmed down the number of plugins and softsynths that S1 counts from 400 to less than 120. I also keep trying new things out, or, like today, buying new ones / but with a purpose most of the time. For example, I’ve had on my list to swap Microshift with Micropitch, that latter of which I picked up for cheap earlier. I listed the former for sale for fairly cheap right after - good old ilok fee means it can’t be really cheap.

Something has to be noticeably better in ways that matter to me in context for me to consider it. I’m not missing too many things, and still have more than I need.

Chasing fewer things and feeling comfortable in my choices when I do buy something has been more peaceful and encouraging. Still pine for a few things (a specific hardware synth or two), but it’s good to have goals.


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## zwhita (Jun 8, 2022)

Polkasound said:


> I was amazed at how many people worked in information technology. It seemed like every other person who answered said they worked in IT. Look at how popular the threads about DAWs are, and you'll see how technically-oriented many of us VI-Control members are.
> 
> ...spending money on VI libraries, if only just to tinker with them now and then and talk about them, is a very respectable pastime to have.
> 
> If someone is sitting on 250 VI libraries and isn't feeling inspired to create, the 251st library, let alone the 2,501st library, isn't going to change anything.


Me in a nutshell. I'm at 260, so you're pretty close there too. I often fret that I've spent $15k for nothing, but as you said, these aren't consumables, we get to enjoy our purchases for years and years. The more you put in, the more you receive. Dividends I can agree with. I think it's actually worse to worry about how much was spent, as then using them seems more like an obligation.

As for addictive behavior, without the typical addict response of "I can quit anytime I want", all I can say is it requires discipline just to use these tools effectively, so extending said behavior to knowing when to buy and when to refrain shouldn't be much greater.

I've spent about $2000 this year on libraries, but the majority were ones I had on my list, just waiting for sales. I'm hoping all it takes is some discipline and perhaps a practical budget.


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## Trash Panda (Jun 8, 2022)

I think everyone hits a personal saturation point with libraries and plugins where the results from shiny new toys just really isn't all that different than what they could achieve with what they already have.

Some are lucky and hit that point right away on one of their early/first library choice. Others...not so much (guilty!).

It can be frustrating picking up recommendation after recommendation, chasing the sales, filling up hard drives and feeling like you've wasted a lot of time and money in the process.

Or you can view it as a learning experience that helped guide you to the type of sound you were searching for all along. Or at least enough tools in the box and experience to get fairly close to the sonics you're envisioning with a core set of libraries/plugins and a few specialists to do what your core can't.

Or it can just be an endless Pokemon-like treadmill, which can have its own type of fulfillment in a way of little dopamine squirts every time you catch a new one.

Let's all just try to enjoy the ride itself, whether it's your profession or a hobby. Life's too short and volatile to be angry all the time (says a guy who was angry at the world and everyone in it until his 30s).


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## jtnyc (Jun 8, 2022)

So long as you're not less enthusiastic about making music, it's a good thing. The constant act of acquiring new gear is a distraction from doing what we set out to do in the first place, make music! Sure you need a new this or that once in a while, but this place sometimes feels like a collectors club. Many here cop to it, but with a sort of badge of honor. I have GAS, oh no I can't resist, my wife is gonna kill me, oh my wallet etc... To each their own, but if you think about it, at least for me, back when I was a young guitar player once I had a good guitar, an amp and a few pedals, I just played, practiced and made music for years with the occasional addition or trade etc. It was not a daily or even monthly thing that I thought about. These days we are inundated with marketing via the internet and are constantly faced with "the new" this and that. I am guilty myself at times, although not much these days.

So Again, if your less enthusiastic about spending precious time watching walkthroughs, reading reviews and trying to figure out if you really need something, you're better off. More time to make music or do any one of a hundred other more productive healthy activities.


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## weeeeve (Jun 8, 2022)

I remember when I first got into audio production/producing/recording. My music didn't sound very good, so I bought more expensive mics. My music still didn't sound very good, so I bought more expensive monitors. My music still didn't sound good, so I bought more expensive preamps. My music still didn't sound good, so I bought more expensive instruments. My music still didn't sound very good. Then I took a year of recording classes, and watched about a million hours of instructional videos, and mixed and remixed and re-re-re-re-re-remixed my music. And then my music started sounding good. That's when I really learned- it's not the tools, it's me. That was a costly lesson for me, but a good one.
And now that I'm into sample libraries and composing, it's the same thing. I have two orchestral libraries- cinesymphony lite, and BBC Discovery. When I do things right, they both sound great. But I don't do things right very often. And until I can do things right all the time, I'm not looking for something else. 
And my wallet and wife both thank me. :^)


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## Chris Schmidt (Jun 8, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> As with most things in this age, it's likely all the American Boomers' fault. Eternally chasing a return to the coveted post WW2 period of their youth and dragging us down with them in the process.


My guy, the problem is the boomers pissed away that post WW2 boom on speedboats, LSD and hookers and now blow your inheritance on sample libraries. 

That economic strength, social cohesion, opportunity, etc. all down the drain and now deny that they did anything wrong and fight the younger generations until their dying breath to make sure that post-war, and certainly that pre-war period glory days never returns because that would be admitting they had better for real. They'd rather let the world burn first.

If you're gonna shit on the boomers, you gotta get the script right first.







PM me for more anti-boomer memes


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## Chris Schmidt (Jun 8, 2022)

On a related note,

I don't know if I'll ever be amped for sample libraries again.

I'd be more interested in entirely new technologies that are superior to stitching a bunch of recordings together with a keyboard


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## Rossy (Jun 8, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.
> 
> Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?


I went through the same as you and have pretty much stopped buying libraries and went back to great piano sounds, drums and bass. I am so disappointed with the offerings and lack of demo's to try so I now I just load up an ensemble patch if I need orchestral sounds and that's it. I feel marketing has gotten out of hand and is just full of promises that most of the libraries just cant deliver. I have heard some amazing compositions here but when you look at what libraries they are using (mostly a mixture) its incredibly expensive (I'm sure someone will prove me wrong) but like you, I have lost the passion to use them and the disappointment continues.


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## Benbln (Jun 8, 2022)

GAS is no problem for me as I have enough power to not let marketing control or trick me. Do I have a few libraries? Probably. I just needed to buy the Berlin Strings bundle as it was a great deal. I‘m also eyeing the NI UCE this month because I can’t wait another year. I will check out the new spitfire library tomorrow as I still have my gift card from the previous sale. I also got another gift card a few days ago which I will probably use for a new external drive. Maybe I will also go for Blackhole this Eventide sale but then again, the bundle prices are amazing as well. But other than that I have the full control over myself.


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## JohnG (Jun 8, 2022)

I don't see any virtue in restraint when it comes to sounds. Berlioz wanted four orchestras (and IDK how many choirs) for one of his pieces. 

*Use Them All*

I have bought quite a lot of stuff over the years and, apart from really obsolete libraries, I only have a couple of orchestral libraries I don't use much. On the contrary, I'm constantly shifting around from one string (or brass, or choir) library to another, even within the same cue, and certainly within the same score.

When we record live we can ask the players for more "dig" on the bow or a lighter touch; less vibrato, or just "gentler" and the players know what to do. Alas the same is not true for samples, no matter what you say to them....

I was pretty poor as a kid and had terrible instruments that were extremely hard to play in tune and never sounded that good. Now I can have a lot and I don't see any problem with it.

Tom Holkenborg has everything, from what I can see. I like his attitude and I like the sound of his scores, so I don't see any shame in owning a fraction of what he does. And all of those guys -- they have everything.


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## Casiquire (Jun 8, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I consider it research. Yes, probably “wasted” a solid $1,000 on stuff I don’t use or have since given away or sold for a fraction of the cost, but I’m more confident now in what I like, need, and actually use.
> 
> Chasing fewer things and feeling comfortable in my choices when I do buy something has been more peaceful and encouraging. Still pine for a few things (a specific hardware synth or two), but it’s good to have goals.


So much wisdom in those two paragraphs. That's my point of view too and I feel I've wasted very little money on libraries I don't use. More than zero dollars, yes, but if I put time and effort into researching libraries and avoid blind buys, and avoid "chasing" anything at all, my decisions are way more sound.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jun 8, 2022)

JohnG said:


> I don't see any virtue in restraint when it comes to sounds. Berlioz wanted four orchestras (and IDK how many choirs) for one of his pieces.
> 
> *Use Them All*
> 
> ...


Yes! And while Tom seems to have sold some things to also slim down his collection last year (?), I do think “usage” has a lot to do with it. If you have lots, and use lots, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with having lots. You might even need more! But when you have lots, and only ever use some, maybe the stuff not being used isn’t needed. Maybe it still is, if it brings you value and confidence or other intangibles.

We’re lucky that so many of these tools are so great. And there’s so many of them available. We may be approaching an inflection point, before the next leap forward - but we’ll probably have to settle grinding along at merely “great” until that happens, before we can level up our tools to “amazing”.


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## Polkasound (Jun 8, 2022)

zwhita said:


> Me in a nutshell. I'm at 260, so you're pretty close there too.


I'm actually over 300 libraries, but each one has either already found, or very likely will find, a place in my work. For my upcoming album for example, I'm finishing up a song [I attached a clip of the ending] that uses a wide cross-section of libraries, some which I've owned for nearly a decade:

8Dio Adagietto Strings
8Dio Agitato Grandiose Legato Strings
Art Vista Backbeat Bass
Audio Modeling SWAM Violin
Chris Hein Horns Pro
Chris Hein Orchestral Brass Complete
Cinematic Studio Strings
IK Multimedia SampleTank 4 (shaker)
Native Instruments Battery 3 (claves)
Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon
Orange Tree Evolution Steel Strings
Sampletekk Blue Grand MkII Piano
Scarbee Mark I
Sonuscore The Orchestra (glockenspiel)
Sonokinetic Orchestral Woodwinds Ensemble (flutes)
Soundiron Little Epic Percussion (triangle)
WavesFactory Brush Drums

I'm fortunate to be someone who enjoys creating music in a lot of different genres, so when I reach for something like the trombones in Chris Hein Orchestral Brass or the Mancini strings in 8Dio Agitato, it's exciting to me — I paid for the libraries, and now I'm getting to piece them together and see what I can create with them.

My hope is that if the uploaded clip sounds at least halfway decent, it will inspire someone to dig out their older libraries and rediscover a joy that _doesn't_ come from having the latest, shiny new product. Last night I worked on this song's ending to 3AM and was having so much fun, I didn't want to stop. The inspiration was self-sustaining, and that is what I wish for everyone here.


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## river angler (Jun 8, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.
> 
> Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?


"Muster up the desire to purchase" !!!!

I sense you may be feeling underwhelmed with the wealth of instruments you now have!

"Emotional progress" No! just realisation that a saturation of musical tools at your fingertips can be counterproductive to creativity and musical joy. ...."Too many cooks can spoil the broth!"

Forgive me if I'm mistaken here but it sounds to me like you have spent more time buying up musical instruments and far less time actually using them! I suggest, especially now you say you have everything you need/could possibly want, to ban yourself from this website for at least 6 months and concentrate on what it's all about: the creation of music!

It also sounds like you are constantly searching to be inspired by the instruments themselves to make music which if relying wholeheartedly on that notion is never going to bring out the best in your own inherent musical imagination.

Many pros will tell you that "less is more": working with a limited pallet can inspire you to stretch your own explorative imagination. Looking back in musical history it was the comparative limited functionality of the instruments available at the time that enticed musicians and composers to stretch those instruments beyond their conventionally perceived limitations to create very intriguing and sometimes truly original music.

"...the market is absolutely saturated" You are absolutely right! The software instrument market is now and actually has been for some time dominated by regurgitative "products" most of which are aimed at the amateur market. Yet again I have to say: the music software market is no different than walking into a fishing tackle shop where there's more tackle in that Aladdin's cave to catch anglers than fish!

I suggest you try composing limiting yourself to just two or three instruments at a time: you will be surprised how that kind of discipline might goad you into composing some great music and if you continue your composing sessions in similar fashion developing your own style no doubt you will see a lot of the libraries you've bought you don't actually need!


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## robgb (Jun 8, 2022)

river angler said:


> I sense you may be feeling underwhelmed with the wealth of instruments you now have!
> 
> "Emotional progress" No! just realisation that a saturation of musical tools at your fingertips can be counterproductive to creativity and musical joy. ...."Too many cooks can spoil the broth!"


You're mistaken. I still regularly create music and love the process. Been doing it since I was nine years old (I started on guitar). No, my post is merely about the feeling that I have all I need and there's nothing new under the sun. The sample developing world seems to be on an endless loop.


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 8, 2022)

Maybe the problem is..._we've hit the peak._

Bar a new revolutionary tech that renders sampling as we know it obsolete, there's not much more progress to be made. Every instrument has been sampled hundreds of times. More dynamic layers/round robins etc aren't going to move the goalposts in a massive way. Incoming "big guns" like Spitfire's Abbey Road will no doubt sound amazing...but they'll be expansions and refinements on what have gone before.

This is very different to the days when I started out composing, where big gains and jumps were the norm. Don't get me wrong..I'm very grateful that I have an orchestra in my laptop, but I think from here on out, we're on cruise control.


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## chillbot (Jun 8, 2022)

Polkasound said:


> I'm actually over 300 libraries


Not that I'm counting (I am) but I'm sitting on 1,889 libraries/VIs.

Sorry nothing to add to thread I'm still rather enthusiastic carry on.


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## chillbot (Jun 8, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Maybe the problem is..._we've hit the peak._


Kinda agree with this but I was just playing around with Pathfinder Cello and using it in a track thinking this is the kind of stuff I need more of. Less tweaking legatos, more and more (and more!) mics, different sized ensembles, it's all getting hugely repetitive... I just want more fun ways to make sounds. (No affiliation with Osterhouse Sounds.)
I use that just as an example of something that has come out recently that makes me think maybe we haven't peaked...?


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## Michel Simons (Jun 8, 2022)

cqd said:


> Do they have like break beats behind it or something?..


Ha ha. It's a different kind of remix.


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## c0nsilience (Jun 8, 2022)

Too many options is often the same as not enough. Option paralysis is a real thing.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jun 8, 2022)

My enthusiasm for sample libraries has greatly diminished. My enthusiasm for guitar pedals has seen a resurgence.


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## Gingerbread (Jun 8, 2022)

As others have said, if you're actually _using_ the libraries you've bought, and they have a true creative usefulness for you, then all is good!

The problem is really for some hobbyists, who end up chasing the "next hot library" hoping for inspiration and/or motivation that never really comes. Purchasing software becomes a proxy for not actually creating much music. And previous purchases just sit dormant.

Time to make some music!


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## Nico5 (Jun 8, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> My enthusiasm for sample libraries has greatly diminished. My enthusiasm for guitar pedals has seen a resurgence.


Pedalboards - the Eurorack of guitar players!


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## cqd (Jun 8, 2022)

Michel Simons said:


> Ha ha. It's a different kind of remix.


It's actually the one album I never listened to too much..
And I say it probably about twice a day..


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## MarkusS (Jun 8, 2022)

From a professional point of view I consider libraries an investment and they need to have a return. When a library carried one track essentially (add something that could not have been done with what I had) I’m considering it a good investment.

Most of my libraries did this, sometimes even a few years later: I bought CAGE a while back and never really used it for years but this year it carried some tracks.

I totally get the lack of enthusiasm though. At some point I got tired from fighting against the weaknesses of libraries and created a lot of sounds myself from scratch for the soundtracks I worked on. But in the meantime there were exciting new technologies in the sample department (looking at you Performance Samples) and I enjoy using samples these days much more.


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## Daniel (Jun 8, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.
> 
> Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?


Me the same. Coincidentally four days ago I was using GPO horn and find it is good as I expected, my client is very happy.. And after that, I am continuing using it. Sometimes there are some surprises from the legend libraries we have for our production process.


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## PeterN (Jun 9, 2022)

Tim_Wells said:


> "Life, Liberty and the *pursuit of Happiness*" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence.
> 
> So @Trash Panda can't blame it on us Boomers.


Went through it.

Separation fro Great Britain and all men created equal and with right to pursue life, liberty and *happiness*. It all makes sense now. This seems like a smack in the face of Great Britain. Probably spot on too. I thought the whole US happiness hype was from some marketing niche starting in 80s.

Well.

Thanks for bringing it in. Maybe the fortune cookie should be like this:

"You have the right to pursue life, liberty and *happiness. *Thomas Jefferson" (screw Confucius)


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## from_theashes (Jun 9, 2022)

toddkreuz said:


>



All discussion can just end after this video xD


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 9, 2022)

from_theashes said:


> All discussion can just end after this video xD


I agree with the general sentiment in the video, but if we all stopped buying “new shit” then who would fund the development of the new shit for when we actually need the new shit?


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## doctoremmet (Jun 9, 2022)

God that video gets posted a lot. Maybe spam it in every thread so we make sure NOONE will miss this Very Important Thought


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## Corda1983 (Jun 9, 2022)

Tim_Wells said:


> "Life, Liberty and the *pursuit of Happiness*" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence.
> 
> So @Trash Panda can't blame it on us Boomers.


Without going too off-topic I’m not sure happiness can be pursued, at least not materialistically - a lesson the West in general has been learning in the hangover of unadulterated capitalism.

Sample libraries are a perfect illustration, really. Some people are happy and enjoying exploring their craft with 3 sample libraries, some are disappointed and jaded and still feel a little empty with their 75 sample libraries and counting. That’s not a judgement on any individual (I’ve certainly been guilty of buying too many) - just an observation that the pursuit usually ends in something still missing. 

That’s not to say buying sample libraries is bad of course - buying in general isn’t really the problem. But I guess happiness is something you bring more than something you find, so it won’t be accumulated by acquiring things. And that’s particularly poignant with sample libraries - ostensibly here to help us express and explore ourselves through the joy of creation, but it’s easy to fall victim to believing it’s the attainment of the libraries that is the joy, at the expense of creating much with them.


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## rezoneight (Jun 9, 2022)

from_theashes said:


> All discussion can just end after this video xD


That video could have been 10 minutes or less and she could have gotten the point across.

As to the video, I get that its a mockup. It sounded fake so if she's as talented as she claims to be I'd have guessed a very early library. People who said it was one of the latest and greatest either have terrible ears or were making commentary on her skills.


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## robgb (Jun 9, 2022)

Daniel said:


> Me the same. Coincidentally four days ago I was using GPO horn and find it is good as I expected, my client is very happy.. And after that, I am continuing using it. Sometimes there are some surprises from the legend libraries we have for our production process.


GPO uses the old ProjectSAM horns, doesn't it? That might explain why they sound so good.


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## robgb (Jun 9, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Incoming "big guns" like Spitfire's Abbey Road will no doubt sound amazing...but they'll be expansions and refinements on what have gone before.


Will they, though? My own experience with Spitfire is hit and miss. And the fact that they don't allow returns while charging premium prices, and their apparent abandonment of Kontakt, makes me less inclined to look to them for libraries if I'm ever inclined to start buying again.


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## robgb (Jun 9, 2022)

MarkusS said:


> At some point I got tired from fighting against the weaknesses of libraries and created a lot of sounds myself from scratch for the soundtracks I worked on.


Yes. I only write stuff for my own company, but I find that creating my own libraries is very rewarding.


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## c0nsilience (Jun 9, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> My enthusiasm for sample libraries has greatly diminished. My enthusiasm for guitar pedals has seen a resurgence.


This is another rabbit hole!


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## robgb (Jun 9, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> I agree with the general sentiment in the video, but if we all stopped buying “new shit” then who would fund the development of the new shit for when we actually need the new shit?


I think the point of her video is that you don't really need new shit.


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## Roger Newton (Jun 9, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> This is another rabbit hole!


I have lots of guitar pedals. But no guitars! That's an even bigger rabbit hole.


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## c0nsilience (Jun 9, 2022)

Roger Newton said:


> I have lots of guitar pedals. But no guitars! That's an even bigger rabbit hole.


Oh yeah!


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## c0nsilience (Jun 9, 2022)

I think it’s great that there are plenty of options and technology has gotten to the point that the barrier to entry for creating quality work has gotten significantly lower. 

That being said, Jimi Hendrix rocked just about every blues lick known to man sitting on a stool with a 12-string acoustic…and it still sounded like Jimi Hendrix. 

A lot of ‘tone’ comes from the heart and is channeled by the hands to be consumed by the ears. I think this is true whether it’s a sample library, synthesis, or an acoustic instrument. 

Tools for creative self-expression are wonderful. But you have to creatively express yourself, or all the tools in the world won’t really matter.


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 9, 2022)

I understood t


robgb said:


> I think the point of her video is that you don't really need new shit.


Sure, I understood that.
Was making an observation that those who buy lots of libraries help the whole by keeping developers in the black.


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## robgb (Jun 9, 2022)

Here's a guy using a lot of older libraries to write for anime.


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## R.G. (Jun 9, 2022)

In summation:


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## Markrs (Jun 9, 2022)

robgb said:


> Here's a guy using a lot of older libraries to write for anime.



This channel is new to be and looks really good so I have subscribed!


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## river angler (Jun 9, 2022)

robgb said:


> You're mistaken. I still regularly create music and love the process. Been doing it since I was nine years old (I started on guitar). No, my post is merely about the feeling that I have all I need and there's nothing new under the sun. The sample developing world seems to be on an endless loop.


Gotcha! ... I wholeheartedly agree with your endless loop analogy! It's got ridiculous just how much library regurgitation/heard it before/emperors new clothes is out there now! For sure these developers are selling more to the programmer/hobbyist than the musician.


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## Roger Newton (Jun 9, 2022)

Markrs said:


> This channel is new to be and looks really good so I have subscribed!


Is that moustache real though?


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## cqd (Jun 9, 2022)

There's another channel I probably would watch and subscribe to, but the whole generic youtube personality thing just put me off..couldn't even get through the video..


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## chapbot (Jun 9, 2022)

We are living in the golden era of sample libraries. Within the past few months I feel like every sample instrument I use for my style of music is now about the best it will be for awhile and I am super happy with the music I'm making.

I love my piano libraries and they are super realistic. I love my drum libraries and they are super realistic. I love my strings and orchestral libraries and they are super realistic.

I own just about every bass guitar library and I'm not entirely happy with any of them until... Native Instruments Prime bass came out in February and holy crap is that amazing. It was the final piece of my puzzle.

I think I'll be good until the next evolution of sample libraries come out which will probably utilize some AI component to nudge the realism a step forward - kind of like The Birth of the Trumpet (Straight Ahead Samples) where software is analyzing your playing to spit out the best samples for the performance.


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## Rudianos (Jun 9, 2022)

chapbot said:


> We are living in the golden era of sample libraries. Within the past few months I feel like every sample instrument I use for my style of music is now about the best it will be for awhile and I am super happy with the music I'm making.
> 
> I love my piano libraries and they are super realistic. I love my drum libraries and they are super realistic. I love my strings and orchestral libraries and they are super realistic.
> 
> ...


My gosh that La Vie en Rose clarinet ... I don't have the trumpet... but the clarinet is just amazing the way it responds to my playing. It becomes the way I'm playing as though I'm blowing on my fingers playing the piano. Definitely looking forward to their full big band but I'm not going to spend that kind of money now.


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## S R Krishnan (Jun 9, 2022)

N


kaplain said:


> I feel the same as well, but who's the falt? As a developper you get forgotten fast by users if you don't release something every month. We are on a Wavetable sample sound collection for many formats since a year and spend a lot of time making sure those patches are expressive and inspiring.


Not true. Take Cinematic Studio Series. Nobody forgets. Quality matters.


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## Nico5 (Jun 9, 2022)

robgb said:


> I think the point of her video is that you don't really need new shit.


I think music has counted on technology innovation to inspire new music over the centuries. The piano forte and electric guitar, pipe organs and synths, each one of the instruments in growing orchestra and jazz big band sizes, and of course recording gear have all been instrumental () in shaping the evolution of music.

Arguably, the issue we’re discussing here is that there’s too much of the "same shit" being released, and not much really "new shit".


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## Chris Schmidt (Jun 9, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> I think music has counted on technology innovation to inspire new music over the centuries. The piano forte and electric guitar, pipe organs and synths, each one of the instruments in growing orchestra and jazz big band sizes, and of course recording gear have all been instrumental () in shaping the evolution of music.
> 
> Arguably, the issue we’re discussing here is that there’s too much of the "same shit" being released, and not much really "new shit".


I honestly think stuff like what Noteperformer is doing is the way forward. That sort of tech where it tries to eliminate having to do a "mock up" by tweaking MIDI CCs, layering and smashing your head against a wall.

Also, anyone who calls it a "piano forte" is definitely an undercover cop


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## Nico5 (Jun 9, 2022)

Chris Schmidt said:


> Also, anyone who calls it a "piano forte" is definitely an undercover cop




... apparently it's not uncommon to confuse police and musicians:


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## toddkreuz (Jun 10, 2022)

rezoneight said:


> That video could have been 10 minutes or less and she could have gotten the point across.
> 
> As to the video, I get that its a mockup. It sounded fake so if she's as talented as she claims to be I'd have guessed a very early library. People who said it was one of the latest and greatest either have terrible ears or were making commentary on her skills.


she doesnt "claim to be talented". She's a film composer. Watch the videos of her at Abbey Road studios doing sessions with live orchestras. What have you done? Yeah, that's what i thought. LOL


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## NYC Composer (Jun 10, 2022)

I’d rather post on a forum about libraries I have and don’t have than actually write music. It’s so much less effort.


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## Daniel (Jun 10, 2022)

robgb said:


> GPO uses the old ProjectSAM horns, doesn't it? That might explain why they sound so good.


GPO v5 yes it does. I am still using v3 and so there is no collaboration with ProjectSam with GPO v3.


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## rezoneight (Jun 10, 2022)

toddkreuz said:


> she doesnt "claim to be talented". She's a film composer. Watch the videos of her at Abbey Road studios doing sessions with live orchestras. What have you done? Yeah, that's what i thought. LOL


I will respond this time with a little less drama as I was made aware of when my previous post was deleted (medication level is just fine. thank you to the kind soul who was concerned I was not taking my meds). 

The point was: "skills over gear" is obvious and the video could have made that point much faster than in 30 minutes. I was not making judgement calls over anyone's skill level as I noted in the deleted message I had never heard of this person before seeing the one video posted. Imprecise language easily misinterpreted. Duly noted.

As to what have I done? Irrelevant to the conversation. I am not, and have never claimed to be, a professional musician. Not my field. Almost was but is not. Like many others here I like to spend money on sample libraries and VIs I'll most likely never use but like to collect anyhow.


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## dpasdernick (Jun 10, 2022)

Tim_Wells said:


> I got a fortune cookie that said:
> "Stop searching everywhere for happiness. It is sitting right beside you. - Confucius"


I got a fortune cookie that said "Buy more shit!" 

so I did.


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## novaburst (Jun 11, 2022)

One thing to remember is the two roads that users and developers are on, 

Developers are always searching for improvements and higher standards some users just don't care about that, one of the reasons is not knowing how to unlock the full potential of that sound, so to the user it not making sense

There are a lot of users on the other hand who do understand what's going on and do take advantage of a new idea or a new mic being used, a new amp that is being used for the recording of the sample, and much more,

The improvements are little by little percentage by percentage, and all contributes to a better sound stage, but to the unlearned ear it's just mombo jombo and just written off as nonsense,

But the fact remains samples are getting better, gear is getting better plugins are getting better

All you the user needs to do is find your balance, you will need to swap out hardware and replace it at some point you will need to swap out software and samples and replace it with new at some point, 

But you will also need to find your balance from time to time but remember it's always moving.


People grow, ideas grow development grows improvements grow, it is the biggest fact that you will need to get to terms with but it is one of the most fascinating things of life,

Life want stop just to please you or things want stop just to accommodate you,


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## MaxOctane (Jun 11, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> My enthusiasm for sample libraries has greatly diminished. My enthusiasm for guitar pedals has seen a resurgence.


I’ve subscribed to pedalgenie.com for a couple of years now. You can rent 1-3 pedals at a time, keep as long as you want. In fact, just today I got three pedals deivered, a reverb and two choruses.


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## easyrider (Jun 11, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.
> 
> Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?


I've not bought anything for months....Once you stop buying stuff, the stuff you have becomes more useful and inspiring. I'm glad I found out early enough on. Endless GAS is a futile pursuit.

For a composers forum the lack of music being shared is staggering...People like to talk the talk but not walk the walk.

There is far more enthusiasm in the deals section people are more interested in buying cheap plugins and using presets and thinking they are sound engineers. Than actually learning how to use the tools properly.

Collecting libraries is just that....Collecting.

One can blame the library for sure....But any composer worth their salt could easily create something sounding brilliant with Spitfire Studio Orchestra.

These are just tools at the end of the day and the cork sniffing in here over meaningless nuances is what drives this forum. Not composition.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jun 11, 2022)

MaxOctane said:


> I’ve subscribed to pedalgenie.com for a couple of years now. You can rent 1-3 pedals at a time, keep as long as you want. In fact, just today I got three pedals deivered, a reverb and two choruses.


A subscription service?! Imagine the uproar if sample developers offered that!

(Goes back to my previous post re. why something like Musio is potentially a great “cure” for peaked enthusiasm and over saturated templates.)


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jun 11, 2022)

easyrider said:


> I've not bought anything for months....Once you stop buying stuff, the stuff you have becomes more useful and inspiring. I'm glad I found out early enough on. Endless GAS is a futile pursuit.
> 
> For a composers forum the lack of music being shared is staggering...People like to talk the talk but not walk the walk.
> 
> ...


I think someone else said it earlier too:

Making some music takes work - and it kinda _feels_ like work, at least to begin with, when you’re sitting there with an empty project file.

Forum procrastinating OTOH is effortless and can be fun.


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## borisb2 (Jun 11, 2022)

easyrider said:


> These are just tools at the end of the day and the cork sniffing in here over meaningless nuances is what drives this forum. Not composition.


👍👍
.. Which is a shame really. I‘m forcing myself to check the composition section first when visiting Vi-C before falling back to Sample Talk. 

Libraries is like cables in the studio. At some point you‘re covered and can start using it. Why would you keep on talking about cables? Boring.. Go make music..


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## szczaw (Jun 11, 2022)

easyrider said:


> These are just tools at the end of the day and the cork sniffing in here over meaningless nuances is what drives this forum. Not composition.


That could be remedied with a ratio of post with and without music (a meter of shame) right next to your nick, and daily reminders that unless your music output is high, you in fact do not know WTF you're talking about


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## Trash Panda (Jun 11, 2022)

szczaw said:


> That could be remedied with a ratio of post with and without music (a meter of shame) right next to your nick, and daily reminders that unless your music output is high, you in fact do not know WTF you're talking about


I don’t need a meter to tell me that I don’t know WTF I’m talking about.


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## Michel Simons (Jun 11, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I don’t need a meter to tell me that I don’t know WTF I’m talking about.


Me neither.

And the fact that people haven't posted a lot of music here doesn't mean that they don't make any.

But apart from that, I have to agree that there seems to be a lot of talk about new releases, future releases, possible future releases, wished-for releases and sales.


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## Loerpert (Jun 11, 2022)

borisb2 said:


> 👍👍
> .. Which is a shame really. I‘m forcing myself to check the composition section first when visiting Vi-C before falling back to Sample Talk.
> 
> Libraries is like cables in the studio. At some point you‘re covered and can start using it. Why would you keep on talking about cables? Boring.. Go make music..


Cables aren't that interesting. VI's are.


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## Vik (Jun 11, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.



Congratulations.


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## uselessmind (Jun 12, 2022)

novaburst said:


> One thing to remember is the two roads that users and developers are on,
> 
> Developers are always searching for improvements and higher standards some users just don't care about that, one of the reasons is not knowing how to unlock the full potential of that sound, so to the user it not making sense
> 
> There are a lot of users on the other hand who do understand what's going on and do take advantage of a new idea or a new mic being used, a new amp that is being used for the recording of the sample, and much more,



I can see there being some truth to that but also the reverse is true as well.
Meaning users searching for improvements or higher standards in certain areas ( or sometimes just a certain level reached 10 years or more ago. When did VSL start their thing?) and companies just not being interested or able to provide those.

Personally i was hyped when i got first into software samplers with Halion1 but quickly grew accustomed to the possibilities they offered.
I assume i might feel the same if modelled instruments take the next step in terms of tone.

But me not even being interested in most sample products these days isn't because i can't imagine what i would want with all the stuff i have, its more that its mostly not offered with the combination of sound, features and quality control that i desire.


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## Nico5 (Jun 12, 2022)

Loerpert said:


> Cables aren't that interesting. VI's are.


arguably, some cables are more interesting than others:


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## borisb2 (Jun 13, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> arguably, some cables are more interesting than others:



how does it sound? is the legato smooth enough on that cable?


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## zwhita (Jun 28, 2022)

robgb said:


> GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did....I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.


Been ruminating on the above for the past 2 weeks. I've spent almost $15k in 22 months and have spent less than 20 hours using all of it. I don't really enjoy the process of moving little rectangles around and making everything imitate live players like I thought I would. It just doesn't feel rewarding like it did when acquiring it all.
Seems to be a classic case of justifying a $700 a month addiction to stockpile/hoard pretty things, then leaving them in a digital vault to rot.

My job is about to get alot busier as well, so music as a hobby might have to be put on the backburner for the next several months.

Guess I'll start posting here again if and when I have more time to work on music. I'm praying absence will make the musical heart grow fonder. Thanks for all your help and support everyone.

Bye for now.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 28, 2022)

zwhita said:


> Been ruminating on the above for the past 2 weeks. I've spent almost $15k in 22 months and have spent less than 20 hours using all of it. I don't really enjoy the process of moving little rectangles around and making everything imitate live players like I thought I would. It just doesn't feel rewarding like it did when acquiring it all.
> Seems to be a classic case of justifying a $700 a month addiction to stockpile/hoard pretty things, then leaving them in a digital vault to rot.
> 
> My job is about to get alot busier as well, so music as a hobby might have to be put on the backburner for the next several months.
> ...


I know I get burned out with work a lot. It takes away the creativeness - it is similar to depression - but it does get better eventually. I go through this a lot. That and being stuck because the song in my head never really matches the music I make. And maybe? I just need to create my own keys. 

The virtual vs real instruments is a whole other matter. If you are more used to working with real instruments, trying to use VI's must suck. If you're just doing it to hoard pretty things, hardware is the way to go. At least it is resellable. 

Hopefully, you will enjoy making music again.


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## Chris Schmidt (Jun 28, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> The virtual vs real instruments is a whole other matter. If you are more used to working with real instruments, trying to use VI's must suck


Yes, yes it does.


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## borisb2 (Jun 28, 2022)

zwhita said:


> My job is about to get alot busier as well, so music as a hobby might have to be put on the backburner for the next several months.
> 
> Guess I'll start posting here again if and when I have more time to work on music. I'm praying absence will make the musical heart grow fonder. Thanks for all your help and support everyone.


that sounds a bit sad .. I hope you soon find time again to create some music .. when that time has come I recommend starting with only 1 library .. might help


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## Chris Schmidt (Jun 28, 2022)

zwhita said:


> Been ruminating on the above for the past 2 weeks. I've spent almost $15k in 22 months and have spent less than 20 hours using all of it. I don't really enjoy the process of moving little rectangles around and making everything imitate live players like I thought I would. It just doesn't feel rewarding like it did when acquiring it all.
> Seems to be a classic case of justifying a $700 a month addiction to stockpile/hoard pretty things, then leaving them in a digital vault to rot.
> 
> My job is about to get alot busier as well, so music as a hobby might have to be put on the backburner for the next several months.
> ...


My advice is to write without the VSTs entirely.

My preferred method is still with instrument + notation software. Limitations breed creativity and inspire. Plus you don't have to fiddle-f*ck with all these MIDI ccs and get distracted.

The other thing is that you will not be bound by how bad most of these VSTs (orchestral ones anyway) blow and you won't have to sacrifice musical ideas to accommodate what the samples can do.

The other thing is compose pieces for much smaller ensembles. This saves time because the orchestra is this thing born of the infantile obsession with more, more, bigger, louder! But most pieces of music composed for it can be effectively realized with smaller ensembles and you won't have to play the same parts and stuff 100x over.

Perhaps just write something for piano and solo violin, for example? You play the piano parts with a VST and hire a live violinist from a forum.

It'll be a smaller piece, but I'll bet that you will, as I do, find it much less time consuming, much more inspiring to make and satisfying to listen to in the end.


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## LatinXCombo (Jun 28, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> Time to focus on the MUSIC...


Aw, come on, one more hit for the road.


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## szczaw (Jun 28, 2022)

Just shut up and collect. It moves the industry forward.


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## Awoo Composer (Jun 28, 2022)

zwhita said:


> Been ruminating on the above for the past 2 weeks. I've spent almost $15k in 22 months and have spent less than 20 hours using all of it. I don't really enjoy the process of moving little rectangles around and making everything imitate live players like I thought I would. It just doesn't feel rewarding like it did when acquiring it all.
> Seems to be a classic case of justifying a $700 a month addiction to stockpile/hoard pretty things, then leaving them in a digital vault to rot.


Do you have a form of ADHD? I have been diagnosed with ADHD for over 10 years and I find without medication (I can't take any anymore; my body has decided adderall and me don't mix anymore) it's very easy to fall into impulsive buys that I do nothing with. You get a big dopamine hit when you do it, but as you keep doing it, you start to question why you're doing it.

Sometimes it's small things. Other times it's bigger things. It's a bad habit though. 

Best way is to take time to try all those things - especially if you've spent only a small amount of time. I impulse bought around 3 courses for this hobby (not including guitar OR learning keyboard) and I'm forcing myself to go through the courses and make use of them. Doesn't even have to be anything fancy - there's a chance you find something and it ignites something within you. Hopefully you can find a way to put those purchases to use.


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## szczaw (Jun 28, 2022)

If you spend on average hundreds of $ per month, on something you can't resale and barely use, then you're clearly financially well off. So have fun, it's ok to collect.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jun 28, 2022)

I wish I could take a few off your hands haha!


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## zwhita (Jul 17, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> Do you have a form of ADHD? I have been diagnosed with ADHD for over 10 years and I find without medication (I can't take any anymore; my body has decided adderall and me don't mix anymore) it's very easy to fall into impulsive buys that I do nothing with.


I may have had it in my youth, but was never officially diagnosed.
I am more inclined to believe my impulse lies in good intentions isolated to music making, but I really just don't know how to do it.

Everything I hear in soundtracks since I started collecting samples now has me scratching my head wondering how it would be done and really just wanting to give up trying. The experts will always be better. I just wanted to have some fun. I'm certain I'll get back to it soon. Most of it is lovely just to play, and I'd be fine with only that.

The performance samples re-introduction sale did catch my eye, but I may just get the Con Moto Violins B and Caspian and call it done. The thrill of buying libraries thankfully is not as seductive anymore.

Thanks to those who commented, I really did need to hear from you!


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 18, 2022)

zwhita said:


> Been ruminating on the above for the past 2 weeks. I've spent almost $15k in 22 months and have spent less than 20 hours using all of it. I don't really enjoy the process of moving little rectangles around and making everything imitate live players like I thought I would. It just doesn't feel rewarding like it did when acquiring it all.
> Seems to be a classic case of justifying a $700 a month addiction to stockpile/hoard pretty things, then leaving them in a digital vault to rot.
> 
> My job is about to get alot busier as well, so music as a hobby might have to be put on the backburner for the next several months.
> ...


I know what you mean. I will say this: watching that documentary about movie soundtracks that came out in the last few years contained the answer for me. Hans Zimmer came on and started talking about how he had all these libraries, and didn't freaking use them. Like he would play with it for a few days, then go do something else. He said something to the effect of "I should really just focus on one of these for a while, and when I do I can do something really great." 

So, with that in mind, here are a few things I've learned since I started messing around with this stuff during the (first?) panedmic:

(1) Even Hans Zimmer collects crap and doesn't know what to do with it.
(2) Good enough is probably good enough. 
(3) If SOMEONE has done something really good with a library, and I own that library, I should probably figure out how I can do something really good with it before buying something else. 
(4) Everyone thinks a sample of the instrument they specialized in sucks. 
(5) Great UX + excellent sound trumps crap-ass UX + perfect sound, because the first will be enjoyable to repeat and create with, the latter will be maybe done once and then you'll never recreate it.
(6) Before I buy more crap, maybe I should focus on how to do a good workflow
(7) I should also probably do something about the acoustics in this "It's a bedroom or a closet depending on if you're buying or selling" room I'm using.
(8) Time off is always good in a creative endeavor.

Hope you find what you're looking for, one way or another!


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## NYC Composer (Jul 18, 2022)

LatinXCombo said:


> I know what you mean. I will say this: watching that documentary about movie soundtracks that came out in the last few years contained the answer for me. Hans Zimmer came on and started talking about how he had all these libraries, and didn't freaking use them. Like he would play with it for a few days, then go do something else. He said something to the effect of "I should really just focus on one of these for a while, and when I do I can do something really great."
> 
> So, with that in mind, here are a few things I've learned since I started messing around with this stuff during the (first?) panedmic:
> 
> ...


Very intelligent post.


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## liquidlino (Jul 18, 2022)

zwhita said:


> I may have had it in my youth, but was never officially diagnosed.
> I am more inclined to believe my impulse lies in good intentions isolated to music making, but I really just don't know how to do it.
> 
> Everything I hear in soundtracks since I started collecting samples now has me scratching my head wondering how it would be done and really just wanting to give up trying. The experts will always be better. I just wanted to have some fun. I'm certain I'll get back to it soon. Most of it is lovely just to play, and I'd be fine with only that.
> ...


I mean everyone is free to do whatever they want - but holy crap. 15k on stuff that can't be resold, and by your own admission you haven't (yet) learnt how to use. And you're considering buying more???

If I can be so bold as to give advice - spend money on education materials instead. Things like Thinkspace and Groove3 tutorials are excellent starting points. There's the new tutorial series from Ryan Leach, buy that - or even just follow all his free youtube tutorials first, they're superb. I've stopped buying libraries and synths and plugins (I only spent 2.5k so far, so 1/6th of your spend) and now spend all my time and money on education, and it's far more valuable/productive/fun than a "slightly different variation of a violins spiccato in a slightly different room".

Or... spend the money on therapy for your library addiction / addictive personality disorder!


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## Wes Antczak (Jul 18, 2022)

You could also try going to one of those food pantries and talking to the people who are having trouble feeding their kids. Share with them your trials and tribulations regarding what to purchase next and why your purchases don't automatically generate success and fame. See what they tell you. Geesh! 

If you have accumulated a pile of things you do not have a use for maybe consider donating them to a school or something. If the items cannot be sold or transferred... perhaps it pays to read the fine print on the tin before opening it. But at any rate, maybe the developer just might make an exception if they knew that you were e.g. donating it to a school or something.

And yes... at the very very least before purchasing anything else, at least OPEN a library you have already purchased and try composing something with it. Maybe make a rule for yourself to do that before reaching for the proverbial credit card.


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## zwhita (Jul 19, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> I mean everyone is free to do whatever they want - but holy crap. 15k on stuff that can't be resold, and by your own admission you haven't (yet) learnt how to use. And you're considering buying more???
> 
> Or... spend the money on therapy for your library addiction / addictive personality disorder!


I think the forum has talked me out of buying anything else. I haven't bought any since late May and already talked myself out of Con Moto. My job is currently interfering with my ability to make music and learn the tools. Only time will reveal if I am free of the addiction.



Wes Antczak said:


> You could also try going to one of those food pantries and talking to the people who are having trouble feeding their kids....
> ...at least OPEN a library you have already purchased and try composing something with it. Maybe make a rule for yourself to do that before reaching for the proverbial credit card.


We can all do more to help those in need. I'm certainly as guilty as most middle class citizens for not helping enough. I have no excuse really, other than my own self-interests.

When I get more time away from work, I intend to work on music. But I'm serious when I say I really don't know how to do anything yet, and I'm not enjoying the process of learning it so far. I have always disliked school, and most things in life I know were learned out of sheer necessity or dumb luck. I just like pretty sounds and have spent the last 15 years basically just noodling and editing recordings for fun.

Despite some of the comments being more about criticisms, I welcome anything else that the forum might consider important on this subject. It's given me alot to think about.


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## JokerOne (Jul 19, 2022)

Tim_Wells said:


> I got a fortune cookie that said:
> "Stop searching everywhere for happiness. It is sitting right beside you. - Confucius"


sounds like a great pick up line.. LOL


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## JokerOne (Jul 19, 2022)

PeterN said:


> I doubt Confucius said that. Just as a sidenote. Confucius is into status, morality, order and family etc. Some guys made the fortune cookies, had hell of a fun, and filled in all kinds of fake stories. Would love to be part of that team.
> 
> Confucius can say that a moral person of dignity, stands strong, like a bamboo in the wind. But the happiness crap is fooling Americans.


I prefer this version. (forgetting for a moment about how a central African chimpanzee ends up in a 19th century Buddhist temple in Hunan province. )


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## becolossal (Jul 19, 2022)

LatinXCombo said:


> I know what you mean. I will say this: watching that documentary about movie soundtracks that came out in the last few years contained the answer for me. Hans Zimmer came on and started talking about how he had all these libraries, and didn't freaking use them. Like he would play with it for a few days, then go do something else. He said something to the effect of "I should really just focus on one of these for a while, and when I do I can do something really great."
> 
> So, with that in mind, here are a few things I've learned since I started messing around with this stuff during the (first?) panedmic:
> 
> ...


I just want to echo what @NYC Composer said about this post. This should be put in front of everyone starting their VI path. It's very easy to give in to the consumerist and capitalist side of using technology to make music. It's easy to spend all your time researching and buying "the best stuff" thinking that the next string library will surely be better than the last one I bought, enabling me to write my magnum opus or land the next project. The stark reality is that both from a hobbyist and professional standpoint is: you don't need all that shit. Find a few tools you like, learn how to use them, and the rest will follow.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 19, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> SA smart delay



Spitfire Audio?


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 19, 2022)

becolossal said:


> I just want to echo what @NYC Composer said about this post. This should be put in front of everyone starting their VI path. It's very easy to give in to the consumerist and capitalist side of using technology to make music. It's easy to spend all your time researching and buying "the best stuff" thinking that the next string library will surely be better than the last one I bought, enabling me to write my magnum opus or land the next project. The stark reality is that both from a hobbyist and professional standpoint is: you don't need all that shit. Find a few tools you like, learn how to use them, and the rest will follow.


The interesting thing is this: When you actually sit down and start making music with the stuff you've got, you quickly realize "oh, this mockup I am doing requires that I have a Bass Trombone, which I don't, so I'm gonna get the one from Orchestral Tools". Or: "None of my sample libraries can pull off this fast string passage no matter how much I try and ask for advice on the forum. So I'm gonna look for another string library that can handle fast passages better".

Meaning, you realize the difference between to want something and to need it (although as a hobbyist like me, one can argue you don't really _need_ anything sample library wise!)


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 19, 2022)

becolossal said:


> I just want to echo what @NYC Composer said about this post. This should be put in front of everyone starting their VI path. It's very easy to give in to the consumerist and capitalist side of using technology to make music. It's easy to spend all your time researching and buying "the best stuff" thinking that the next string library will surely be better than the last one I bought, enabling me to write my magnum opus or land the next project. The stark reality is that both from a hobbyist and professional standpoint is: you don't need all that shit. Find a few tools you like, learn how to use them, and the rest will follow.


Aw shucks, you make me blush.

But you're right - someone's always there to sell you stuff.

And there's a lot of GOOD stuff out there. It's kind of amazing what's possible now versus when I was banging around in college. 

But (and this should probably go on the list) messing around with the VSTs isn't just a programming job, it's also a performance. And if you don't know how to play the instrument and get the most out of it, the computer will not save you! That kind of floored me the first time when I programmed in everything for this jazz score I had lying around from high school as a test, and it sounded like crap. 

And learning how to play these VSTs, well, it's going to take time just like playing any other instrument. There's no shortcuts! Damnit.

(I also have a side rant about how music tech is still stuck in 1988, which I don't have time to write and no one really wants to read here, so just take it as read and let's move on.)


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## becolossal (Jul 19, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> The interesting thing is this: When you actually sit down and start making music with the stuff you've got, you quickly realize "oh, this mockup I am doing requires that I have a Bass Trombone, which I don't, so I'm gonna get the one from Orchestral Tools". Or: "None of my sample libraries can pull off this fast string passage no matter how much I try and ask for advice on the forum. So I'm gonna look for another string library that can handle fast passages better".
> 
> Meaning, you realize the difference between to want something and to need it (although as a hobbyist like me, one can argue you don't really _need_ anything sample library wise!)


Want vs. need changes the whole game. I'll certainly still buy things I want because I like the sound or idea behind something, but I save a lot more money (and disk space) only buying things when I need them for a project vs. trying to take advantage of any given sale at any given time. 

I'll also acknowledge that this is a journey. I'm only able to have this perspective because I've spent more money than I care to admit that I ultimately didn't need to. If someone is spending 15k in 2 years and have spent less than 20 hours using the stuff, at some point it stopped being about the music. That's not a criticism – again, been there before.

For people just getting started, don't waste your time researching (i.e., reading mostly personal opinions on boards like this) for hours – find something that fits the bill, learn it, and only then try something else. For example, if you're into trailer music and just getting started, fretting over the differences between MA1, Jaeger, Pandora, and any other library of that ilk is time you could be spending learning far more valuable information. Again, speaking to this from lived experience and recognizing how much time I could have spent getting smart about process, theory, musicality vs. finding 'the best software' or 'doing it the right way.'

All that said, if the true nature of your pursuit/hobby/whatever is digging into the intricacies of different libraries and debating their merits in a forum like this, recognize that as well and enjoy it (there's absolutely nothing wrong with that). Hell, I've been to many a synth meetup where not a soul there made music with the stuff they brought to show off. But that doesn't seem to be where OP intended his journey to go.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 19, 2022)

becolossal said:


> Want vs. need changes the whole game.


It really does!

Also, new libraries are being released all the time promising "better legato", or better this, better that. But if you're like me and have bought some arguably high quality sample libraries, it helps I find to remind myself that I most certainly can get by with what I already have. (Edit: That's want vs. need again, I guess  )

A good test of whether or not you should buy a certain library is to wait 1 year after it's released, then look at the situation. The hype has died down - reality has set in - and thus you're in a better position to judge the potential value to you of that library.


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## JokerOne (Jul 19, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> It really does!
> 
> Also, new libraries are being released all the time promising "better legato", or better this, better that. But if you're like me and have bought some arguably high quality sample libraries, it helps I find to remind myself that I most certainly can get by with what I already have. (Edit: That's want vs. need again, I guess  )
> 
> A good test of whether or not you should buy a certain library is to wait 1 year after it's released, then look at the situation. The hype has died down - reality has set in - and thus you're in a better position to judge the potential value to you of that library.


So how many of these are actually being used in film scores vs. How many are being used as a mockup/demo?


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 19, 2022)

JokerOne said:


> So how many of these are actually being used in film scores vs. How many are being used as a mockup/demo?


How do you mean? How many older libraries are being used in film scores or only for demos or what? I'm just a hobbyist, I know nothing 

However if I understood one of the composers behind the soundtrack for EA's Battlefield 1-game correctly, they used various sample libraries in combination with live orchestra recordings. That was in 2016 and among other things they used Spitfire Symphonic Strings. I'm not sure how old that library was at the time though.


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## JokerOne (Jul 19, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> How do you mean? How many older libraries are being used in film scores or only for demos or what? I'm just a hobbyist, I know nothing
> 
> However if I understood one of the composers behind the soundtrack for EA's Battlefield 1-game correctly, they used various sample libraries in combination with live orchestra recordings. That was in 2016 and among other things they used Spitfire Symphonic Strings. I'm not sure how old that library was at the time though.


Yes, I mean if I listen to any given orchestral score in a modern film/TV series/Netflix/TV Ad/Video Game/etc score is it from one of these libraries or is it from an actual orchestra? I know the top $$$ studios hire Hans Zimmer and others, but what about ones with less budget? I was at the theater this weekend to watch the new Top Gun film (go see it if you haven't on the big screen), and the preview ads were playing for upcoming films and I swore I heard some "heavyocity" libraries in one of them. I'm going to assume they didn't hire an orchestra to recreate it?

thanks.


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## osterdamus (Jul 19, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> Spitfire Audio?


Straight Ahead Samples, their New Standard line.


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## Vlzmusic (Jul 19, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> Spitfire Audio?


He he.. Straight Ahead of course.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 19, 2022)

JokerOne said:


> Yes, I mean if I listen to any given orchestral score in a modern film/TV series/Netflix/TV Ad/Video Game/etc score is it from one of these libraries or is it from an actual orchestra? I know the top $$$ studios hire Hans Zimmer and others, but what about ones with less budget? I was at the theater this weekend to watch the new Top Gun film (go see it if you haven't on the big screen), and the preview ads were playing for upcoming films and I swore I heard some "heavyocity" libraries in one of them. I'm going to assume they didn't hire an orchestra to recreate it?
> 
> thanks.


In the theatre, those trailers for upcoming movies - I think many of them use purely samples and no recordings of a real orchestra. Someone who can answer that for sure is @Blakus


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## becolossal (Jul 19, 2022)

JokerOne said:


> Yes, I mean if I listen to any given orchestral score in a modern film/TV series/Netflix/TV Ad/Video Game/etc score is it from one of these libraries or is it from an actual orchestra? I know the top $$$ studios hire Hans Zimmer and others, but what about ones with less budget? I was at the theater this weekend to watch the new Top Gun film (go see it if you haven't on the big screen), and the preview ads were playing for upcoming films and I swore I heard some "heavyocity" libraries in one of them. I'm going to assume they didn't hire an orchestra to recreate it?
> 
> thanks.


Film trailers are usually not "real" recordings unless they are using something that was actually recorded for the film itself. In my video game experience: it all depends on budget, but even with a small one you can record fairly cheaply if the project calls for it. For example, if I do 20 minutes of music for an indie title, I can hire a place like the Northern Film Orchestra for ~$2000/hr depending on my needs. Or I can record a few key soloists if I want a little more realism added to the libraries I'm using. I've got a friend who's worked on a few big commercial projects and he's used an orchestra in Prague. I know another guy who does a LOT of trailer work and he's been using the same stuff for years.


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## Casiquire (Jul 19, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> The interesting thing is this: When you actually sit down and start making music with the stuff you've got, you quickly realize "oh, this mockup I am doing requires that I have a Bass Trombone, which I don't, so I'm gonna get the one from Orchestral Tools". Or: "None of my sample libraries can pull off this fast string passage no matter how much I try and ask for advice on the forum. So I'm gonna look for another string library that can handle fast passages better".
> 
> Meaning, you realize the difference between to want something and to need it (although as a hobbyist like me, one can argue you don't really _need_ anything sample library wise!)


I think the idea is to figure out how to *make* your library do it versus buying different libraries for every little thing. Obviously you can't turn a violin into a tuba every time you need a tuba, but do you need to buy a new library to get more attack or can you layer something instead, or compress it just right, or ride the modwheel just right? Etc.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 19, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I think the idea is to figure out how to *make* your library do it versus buying different libraries for every little thing. Obviously you can't turn a violin into a tuba every time you need a tuba, but do you need to buy a new library to get more attack or can you layer something instead, or compress it just right, or ride the modwheel just right? Etc.


But Spitfire Symphonic Strings won’t do fast string runs convincingly no matter what you do - that’s the type of thing I meant. Otherwise, yes it absolutely is preferable if one can learn how to make ones existing stuff do what you want


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## jbuhler (Jul 19, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I think the idea is to figure out how to *make* your library do it versus buying different libraries for every little thing. Obviously you can't turn a violin into a tuba every time you need a tuba, but do you need to buy a new library to get more attack or can you layer something instead, or compress it just right, or ride the modwheel just right? Etc.


At some point though, you get sick of all the work it takes to turn the violin into a bad tuba… so at some point it makes sense to invest in a new tool if you are constantly having to do difficult workarounds. This isn’t to deny the point that we should work as much as we can learning the tools we have but only recognizing that sometimes a new tool is in order.


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## Russell Anderson (Jul 19, 2022)

robgb said:


> I'm finding that I'm less and less impressed and less and less enthused about the new sample libraries being offered. I've come to believe that the market is oversaturated and it seems as if I have just about everything I could possibly need in the synth and orchestral department and have not felt that overwhelming urge to buy something new in quite some time.
> 
> Should I consider this emotional progress?  GAS does not seem to affect me the way it once did. After the disappointment of my last big purchase (Spitfire's Studio Woodwinds Core), I can't seem to muster up the desire to purchase. I still enjoy talking about the libraries, but buying seems less likely.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this?


I know I'm late and I'm also now attributing a lot of seriousness to your OP but:

Work on the next evolution of DAW. We really need it. If you are hungry for innovation that is the area that needs the most attention. There are a lot of possibilities to dramatically enhance workflows.


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## Tim_Wells (Jul 20, 2022)

JokerOne said:


> sounds like a great pick up line.. LOL


It's interesting that you say that. At the time I read that fortune cookie, I was sitting next to a girl I was going to marry. I think that's why it stuck in my head. It seemed rather profound. 

And if you're curious, no I didn't end up marrying that girl. But I am married to someone who I'm much more compatible with and almost certainly, infinitely happier with. (So, I suppose in that sense, the quote doesn't hold up ).

Apologies to the OP for the diversion.


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## Dave Connor (Jul 20, 2022)

I had the privilege of working with the great and widely acknowledged genius Van Dyke Parks a while back (who I count as a friend and the dearest, wittiest guy.) It was on the Inara George album, An Invitation. He had done all the mock-ups in Digital Performer’s rather limited notation section of their DAW. The sounds were average but the music was stunning. The only thing I could compare it to was Stravinsky’s middle period with a sort of rhythmically complex Classicism with a large dose of Jazz. I remember thinking, _I’m doing something wrong. _Because here was a guy using the most basic almost primitive tools and doing miracles. Yes we recorded it live but the mock-up told the story perfectly and was indeed our reference.

This thread reminded me of the fact that the _idea _is still supreme. And that great ideas have a way of finding their way to great execution. The key is to not get those two goals reversed. As someone said above, invest in the learning side, particularly if you already have a few roomfuls of tools.


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## justthere (Jul 26, 2022)

Dave Connor said:


> Yes we recorded it live
> 
> the _idea _is still supreme.


It's always about the idea, clearly. No library will hide dull music. Also, great music can be obscured or at least interfered with or impeded by bad programming or sounds. This is clear, because you used real strings. I will take you at your word that the MIDI rendering was at least good enough to indicate what he wanted - but to be fair that is a special case, as he's an acknowledged brilliant arranger. It doesn't prove too much other than that his talent overwhelms limited gear.

But that said: My final delivery is a synthetic orchestra, and also that's how I want it at this time - I like the machines being my instrument. If what I deliver doesn't speak then it's going to be like most other stuff that's being written. And I'm not the kind of composer who has an expectation of pressing a key and hearing "emotion" or a "human quality" - the ads from companies implying that are tragic to me and at least partially responsible for the overwhelming sameness of what many people are putting out into the world. I want things to go where I tell them. And as has been said above, sure, you need to know how to play your library, but that doesn't mean that you will always get the best results to be had, and a lot of great results one hears are as a result of avoiding compositional moves that the library can't do well. Having had to do that for many many years, I am pretty much over that crap. I have no nostalgia for the Synclavier, which I used quite a bit back in the day, because I wanted sample playback to be better than that. And I wrote a lot of stuff with 8Dio Adagio strings, but I don't want to go back to that. What I want is agile instruments that do what I tell them to gracefully and don't make me stop because their legato isn't good or their room ambience is dragging everything down. And when I can't get there with a single library, I augment it with another. Performance Samples understand the single-use-augmented idea, which is why they have libraries that are a single dynamic but one that others don't have. 

It's also true that new composers, for example, don't have the money to buy everything they want, and typically buy a big orchestra set and live with it for a while. I totally get that. But it doesn't make it any less true that no one thing does everything.


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## justthere (Jul 26, 2022)

becolossal said:


> Find a few tools you like, learn how to use them, and the rest will follow.


I would modify that - with the caveat that "you" in this is a nonspecific "you" that I find is true in general - there is nothing inevitable about any human endeavor. Doing what you have described is the bare minimum requirement. If someone is untalented and/or unfocused and/or they don't put themselves out there in a constructive way and/or they lack the resiliency and self-knowledge needed to sustain a career, nothing at all will follow, and nobody should go into this field thinking that just hard work or just the fact that you think you are great or just the right gear and library count for anything in and of themselves. Here's a reason not to obsess over some traditional sample-based library: if you think you have time to do that kind of thing, you are wrong.


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## Dave Connor (Jul 26, 2022)

justthere said:


> It's always about the idea, clearly. No library will hide dull music...


The context of my remarks was that if you have numerous top notch sample libraries and are still dissatisfied with your work, why not return to the essence of what you're doing which is composition itself.


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