# 7 cues, from a recent film



## poseur (Jun 19, 2009)

i finished the film a few weeks ago;
these 7 cues are freshly mixed into stereo.

(these are 320 mp3's, btw.)

tracks 1-7, here:
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## lux (Jun 19, 2009)

fresh and inspirational. Pretty nice. Guitar sounds great. Thanks for sharing it.
Luca


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## Hannes_F (Jun 19, 2009)

I like them, thank you for sharing!


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## JohnG (Jun 19, 2009)

I love the psychological state this seems to come from. From the guitars to the creepy, loose percussion in "john in parallel / the new hell" it evokes a loss of control and strangeness that have tons of personality. Kind of creeps me out, as they say, though in a good way.


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## poseur (Jun 19, 2009)

thanks luca, thanks hannes!

this was another odd-bird film, really.....
and extremely enjoyable to "score", regardless of the _very_ limited budget.
the way the film was shot & cut,
it really didn't respond well to pieces that weren't "song-like", somehow.....
but still had to provide some kind of atmosphere/vibe in order to lend
an air of mystery (or, unknown backstory/history) to the protagonist.
iow:
the character needed to appear somewhat "deeper" than
his well-played & earnest (nearly innocuous, nearly innocent) nature,
and more dimensional than the look of the film (and, the spotting) might imply.

it's been a while since i had such a satisfying (and, smooth) film experience,
w/excellent communication between the director, music supervisor, producers & myself.
!!!

again, thanks for the kind comments.

d


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## poseur (Jun 19, 2009)

JohnG @ Fri Jun 19 said:


> I love the psychological state this seems to come from. From the guitars to the creepy, loose percussion in "john in parallel / the new hell" it evokes a loss of control and strangeness that have tons of personality. Kind of creeps me out, as they say, though in a good way.


cool, jg!
like i said..... a somewhat odd film.
interestingly, it's also funny, somehow.
but, since it's actually spun from danté alighieri's "inferno", well.....
it needed some dimension from what little music there is
(only about 24 minutes), but from a quasi-"songlike" kinda perspective.
fun to do!
i do like me a challenge, beyond the norm of (typical) logistical challenges.....

d


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## NedK (Jun 19, 2009)

I like it too. BTW, track 8 is quite beautiful.


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## cc64 (Jun 19, 2009)

Hey Poseur,

i'm listening to all your cues here. Ouch! I'm sure you may be called many things but Poseur would not come to mind :wink: 

Man they're all excellent!

Best,

Claude


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## Joanne Babunovic (Jun 22, 2009)

Nice Poseur. Great space and isolation of instruments. 

You mentioned newly mixed for stereo? Sorry if asking a basic knowledge question, but what does mixing for stereo mean? I have samples - EW Gold/Plat, SI and so on, that are pretty much in stereo out-of-the-box from software manufacturer. I pan samples left/right/center etc. Does the process Poseur refers to first involve reducing these stereo samples (or live recordings) to one mono and then remix to stereo? 

I should likely repost in another forum...


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## poseur (Jun 22, 2009)

Joanne Babunovic @ Mon Jun 22 said:


> Nice Poseur. Great space and isolation of instruments.
> 
> You mentioned newly mixed for stereo? Sorry if asking a basic knowledge question, but what does mixing for stereo mean? I have samples - EW Gold/Plat, SI and so on, that are pretty much in stereo out-of-the-box from software manufacturer. I pan samples left/right/center etc. Does the process Poseur refers to first involve reducing these stereo samples (or live recordings) to one mono and then remix to stereo?
> 
> I should likely repost in another forum...


ah, no --- it's fine for me, here.

the score was mixed to the picture,
in 5.1 surround sound.
quite often, i can use one of the many available formulas to "fold-down"
the 5.1 mixes directly into stereo;
in this case, though, for a variety of reason,
i didn't feel that the surround film-mixes "folded-down" well, at all.....
..... so i went back to the original recordings,
and did new ("fresh") mixes in stereo, for the score's release.
hth?
d


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## Joanne Babunovic (Jun 23, 2009)

Yes that helps and it makes sense that surround sound would not work as well as conventional stereo for conventional stereo listening. Thanks.


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## CFDG (Jun 23, 2009)

As usual, fresh and original in every way. My favorite music here (title #19 is still hauting me since your first post).

Your raw preferences where this can be set?

Likewise, is there a way to type in a numerical value for a fader if you know what you want to set it at?

Hopefully all th


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 23, 2009)

By George, me thinks (com)Poseur may just be my favourite composer on this forum. Certainly the most authentic (ironic, no?) voice. A fan. =o 

So glad things worked out so well for you. Maybe it had to do with the small budget and people doing it because they cared about the film?


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## Thonex (Jun 23, 2009)

Top notch in every sense!!!

Wonderful sonic landscapes.

Thanks for sharing these poseur.


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## Ed (Jun 23, 2009)

Cool! Spent ages listening to your other stuff as well!


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 23, 2009)

As always, original, thought provoking and emotional. lots of great textures.


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## poseur (Jun 23, 2009)

CFDG @ Tue Jun 23 said:


> As usual, fresh and original in every way. My favorite music here (title #19 is still hauting me since your first post).
> 
> Your raw organic approach - which appears as the only common point among your projects - has been and will continue to be an inspiration to me.
> 
> ...


thank you, christian.....
and very glad to see you in here, again, if 
--- like me & quite few others, here, i guess ---
only briefly.
dude!
sir.

the background for track 19, "the line":
part of the establishing theme representing the line (or, en español: la linea.....)
as the drug cartels & the cia apparently both call the border between mexico & the usa,
as well as the name indicating the actual incessant flow
of the illegal "shipping route" (for both drugs and human beings)
from that south >>> that north.....
it's a bittersweet (though, somewhat flawed) film;
the film's hero, finding both heart & altruism after a lifetime of coldblooded wrongdoing,
does not do well, at all.....

d


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## poseur (Jun 23, 2009)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jun 23 said:


> Certainly the most authentic (ironic, no?) voice. A fan. =o


thanks so much, ned; really.



Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jun 23 said:


> So glad things worked out so well for you. Maybe it had to do with the small budget and people doing it because they cared about the film?


maybe so; maybe so.
this is the 2nd film in which it seems i was offered considerable respect for my filmic viewpoint,
and where the temp really didn't mean too specifically much to
the heart/nature of the score, other than using some of the original (very good, imo) spotting.....

the 1st film experience like this, though, was a studio picture..... my first studio picture, in fact.

dt / spltrcl


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## Rob (Jun 24, 2009)

enjoyed all of them very much...


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## R. Soul (Jun 24, 2009)

Looks like I'm in the minority but I didn't rate these tunes very high. Listened to the first 5 or 7 - it was a couple of days ago so I don't remember exactly. What I do remember was that according to the critique here I was expecting to be blown away, but I was quite underwhelmed to be honest. 
I thought it all was a bit repetative, wasn't mixed that well and generally uninteresting. I'm genuinely surprised about the critique. What exactly does people like so much?

It does perhaps sound a bit different to what we are used to around here so maybe that's what get people so excited?

Sorry Poseur if it's all negative but I thought it wouldn't harm to bring of balance to the thread.


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## poseur (Jun 24, 2009)

R. Soul @ Wed Jun 24 said:


> Looks like I'm in the minority but I didn't rate these tunes very high. Listened to the first 5 or 7 - it was a couple of days ago so I don't remember exactly. What I do remember was that according to the critique here I was expecting to be blown away, but I was quite underwhelmed to be honest.
> I thought it all was a bit repetative, wasn't mixed that well and generally uninteresting. I'm genuinely surprised about the critique. What exactly does people like so much?
> 
> It does perhaps sound a bit different to what we are used to around here so maybe that's what get people so excited?
> ...


fine with me!
i'm quite accustomed to it.
far worse has been said about my music, 
in private, in public & the press,
at various times across these past 30+ years.

btw, if it's repetitive
--- and, it surely is ---
it's for the sake of the score..... as usual.
even minor development within a short score, when called-for, is development, imo.

but, i won't defend it, myself, though i kinda like this one;
i've done better & "more interesting", imo, and i've done worse.
one score doesn't define me nor my ouevre, ever.

i am interested to know, though,
--- if you don't mind ---
what, more specifically, you don't like about the mixes?

d


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 24, 2009)

R. Soul @ 24/6/2009 said:


> What exactly does people like so much?



It doesn't sound like he's trying to imitate another composer.

The instruments are well balanced with each other, mix is clear.

It really sounds like instruments being played.

Terrific atmosphere, great variety of colours.

Melodies! And memorable riffs/motifs.

Lots of fun detail in the choice of timbres.

Surprises in almost every cue. 

Well recorded tracks, you can almost touch some instruments.

Subtle writing.

Talent + experience shows.


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## Niah (Jun 24, 2009)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed Jun 24 said:


> R. Soul @ 24/6/2009 said:
> 
> 
> > What exactly does people like so much?
> ...



it's just simply darn good music


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## CFDG (Jun 24, 2009)

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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 24, 2009)

I am almost afraid to ask what stringed instruments you played on this. I spent literally 4500 on 2 instruments after hearing one of your cues.

....Alright....I'm asking....


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## kid-surf (Jun 24, 2009)

"Poseur is a true FILM composer. When you listen to his tracks you can almost see the film and this without it being cliché. "


Ditto...

Was going to say a version of the same thing. I have more to say but gotta run. More later...


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## R. Soul (Jun 24, 2009)

poseur:
the accordion in first track somehow doesn't work being so staccato. Reverb on clap is not quite there. I suspect that's cause it's you clapping in your room.  

Track 3 seems to distort towards the end. Perhaps overcompressed or maybe it's the low bit rate on Soundclick. 

Track 6. Bass is way too heavy. Guitar is pretty good though. :D See, I don't hate these tunes, it's just the fact that everyone seems to think to rate them 10/10 where as I'd probably rate them 5 or 6/10. 



Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed Jun 24 said:


> R. Soul @ 24/6/2009 said:
> 
> 
> > What exactly does people like so much?
> ...


True. But if that alone was a criteria for quality I think loads of people on Myspace would qualify as well. 



> The instruments are well balanced with each other, mix is clear.


Reasonably yes, but again I thought - particularly on this site - that was almost taken for granted. And that can be said about every song on Top10 as well.



> It really sounds like instruments being played.


I suspect many of them are especially guitars and claps, but sorry but ....so is it on many Top 10 hits :mrgreen: 



> Terrific atmosphere, great variety of colours.


That's so subjective there's no point in arguing about that. Let's just say, I'm not that excited as everyone else.



> Melodies! And memorable riffs/motifs.


Again, I don't particularly like the melodies and don't find the riffs memorable, but as before, I suspect that's very subjective.



> Lots of fun detail in the choice of timbres.


Perhaps. But does that make it good music?



> Surprises in almost every cue.


As above.



> Well recorded tracks, you can almost touch some instruments.


Not too bad, I can mention the Top10 thing again.



> Subtle writing.


Doesn't help much if I don't like the melodies/riff's I suppose.



> Talent + experience shows.


Subjective again.

Anyway, I didn't really plan to comment this much on some music I don't care that much for but take or leave it. It's just one mans opinioin after all. 
:D


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## lux (Jun 24, 2009)

well, i think every mans opinion is of course allowed and poseur said he's just fine with it, so i dont think there's a problem with that.

I would not ask to other people why they liked it though. Some things are hard to incapsulate into schemes. There's some common feeling here about the pieces, so there will be a reason for that probably. And you could not get that reason anyway, even if explained. Feelings are feelings after all. And fortunately parameters regarding what makes good music or not arent up to you or me.i would say


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## poseur (Jun 24, 2009)

thanks for attempting to quantify your critique, for me.
i'd like to take these in as if you're trying to help me improve, musically,
whether that's actually true, or not.



R. Soul @ Wed Jun 24 said:


> poseur:
> the accordion in first track somehow doesn't work being so staccato.


it's not an accordion;
it's a small electric air organ from the '60's,
with chord-buttons..... i play 2 or 3 of them at a time (w/both hands, percussively, using one track),
and as they use much air, their release-times are quite short.
i usually include 1 or 2 more notes on the keyboard (as an overdub),
which are never as staccato --- i play them slightly more loosely,
& they release more slowly.
this way, i can get denser (ie, intervallically "tighter") chords,
which i often seem to dig.

fwiw:
what might appear to be accordion (or, bandoneon) on _other_ tracks
in this score are actually played on harmonium.



R. Soul @ Wed Jun 24 said:


> Reverb on clap is not quite there. I suspect that's cause it's you clapping in your room.


well, i don't quite know what "there" means,
but i'm fine with the shadow of reverb & ER's that is on those tracks.
but, yeah;
i did record most of the claps on my iPhone, at my kitchen table.
other claps were recorded in a nice, reflective room
--- 22' x 24' ---
as were the "thigh-slaps".



R. Soul @ Wed Jun 24 said:


> Track 3 seems to distort towards the end. Perhaps overcompressed or maybe it's the low bit rate on Soundclick.


i have no idea what you're hearing; there is a small amount of distortion,
purposefully employed, on a few of the individual tracks within that cue,
throughout.



R. Soul @ Wed Jun 24 said:


> Track 6. Bass is way too heavy. Guitar is pretty good though. :D See, I don't hate these tunes, it's just the fact that everyone seems to think to rate them 10/10 where as I'd probably rate them 5 or 6/10.


i don't agree.
however, i reserve the right to agree, 6 months from now.

i can't respond intelligently to the remainder of that post,
for reasons that i gotta presume you'll find obvious.
i would point out to you, though,
that i've (thankfully) never seen a numerical rating system in this section
of this particular _peer-oriented_ forum;
and, i hope i never do.

in any case,
i feel strongly that you absolutely have the right to dislike &/or disrespect
anything at all.
i have no expectations in this regard;
i most def do not believe i'm g-d's gift to music or scoring;
it's simply what i love, what i do and what i've done all my life.
maybe that's the same for you.

tutto bené, too:
i work, most of the time, on many projects that interest me.

i am, though, extremely enthused to see such positive responses
from this community, for this..... which has happened in the past,
but not (i think) to this vocal degree of "acceptance".


that said, i also agree w/a key point made in luca's post;
that point raises the specter of the presence of a certain disingenuousness
at the core of one questioning other folks "reasons"
for their attraction to anything, & certainly to all things aesthetic.....


d


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## CFDG (Jun 24, 2009)

Craig Sharmat @ Wed Jun 24 said:


> I am almost afraid to ask what stringed instruments you played on this. I spent literally 4500 on 2 instruments after hearing one of your cues.
> 
> ....Alright....I'm asking....


LOL I forked out 800€ on a buzuki and 1800 on a tricone after hearing The Line and some other cues. =D



R. Soul @ Wed Jun 24 said:


> Track 6. Bass is way too heavy. Guitar is pretty good though. :D See, I don't hate these tunes, it's just the fact that everyone seems to think to rate them 10/10 where as I'd probably rate them 5 or 6/10.


I personnally rate them 7,56/10. As I rate Tom Waits songs 8,97/10. Pau Casals reverb 1/10. Sorry about the sarcasm R.Soul 

You may ask yourself why all this bunch of composers pay their respect to d's music... Obviously not because of the releases, mix or other subexistant matters. It maybe something you can't sense, which is ok. I heard your tracks and enjoyed them a lot, I could explain in great details why I like 'em while I have absolutely no idea why I LOVE d's music, exactly. That raw organic thingie excepted.

Christian


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 24, 2009)

R.Soul, I don't quite where you're coming from, especially when I look back on your previous posts in response to Members' music. In some cases you suggest that there could have been more surprises; in another case you defend someone by saying that the music doesn't have to be so well-produced to be good, etc. It feels to me, and this is just a feeling, not an accusation, like you want to be different from the rest of us somehow in this thread. 

Are we like the crowd in the Emperor's New Clothes, bilnd to the fact that he's naked, until you come along to point out the obvious? I doubt it.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 24, 2009)

I really dig some of this music. It's a breath of fresh air from the 100% sample cues people post trying to sound like Zimmer or JW.

I like "Cursed" a lot. "There they go" makes me feel like I'm watching Hurt Locker again in places. Gonna listen to more later.


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## kid-surf (Jun 24, 2009)

In the spirit of sharing opinions...

I wholly disagree with R. Soul as to the question of content as well as his few mix issues.

First off: I look at this score as a representation of only ONE voice/layer in Poseur's repertoire, which seems explicitly obvious to me. What singular work of yours/ours expresses every last thing about you/us as a creative? 

What I like about this score is that it seems to express elements of character that lay just below the surface (subtext), elements the this character is attempting to hide from himself, and us, but that the director needs "played".

I say that sight unseen, but that's what it FEELS like to me. If this is the case, it's not easy to do. There is a, seemingly, very particular and carefully laid tonality expressed here, of which I'm led to believe that this isn't some hackneyed random stab at sensibility, but instead a deciphering of the films innermost purpose - therefore going under the skin of our characters to express their secrets, wants, goals, motives. That's what this music makes me feel...at least, what I am capable of articulating quickly. 

The end of "The New Hell". Man, I dig that! Take me there. Hearing that bit makes me realize that there probably is a composer out there who could score one of my films and nail the sensibility that is in my head, and perhaps add to it in ways that inspire me. And I'm super fuckin picky...(despite not loving epic scores/film)

I don't hear Desperation (i.e. my bills are due), Arrogance (i.e. look what I can do), Self-conciseness (i.e. I hope other composers flip over this) etc. I do hear authenticity; that primal element so often lacking in today's creations. From that perspective alone, this music is refreshing. But there's more to it...

Said into the wind: When an overwhelming majority of smart individuals laud a particular work, or voice, and we do not, it is perhaps time to examine what WE may not be deciphering. 

Otherwise, TASTE is nether positive nor negative.


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## rJames (Jun 24, 2009)

Deceptively simple sounding in places and very stylish. I got a little caught up in "Running the line,' especially the opening. Very nice. Loved the Zimmer strings done by squeeze box in one of the cues.


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## poseur (Jun 24, 2009)

choc0thrax @ Wed Jun 24 said:


> I really dig some of this music. It's a breath of fresh air from the 100% sample cues people post trying to sound like Zimmer or JW.
> 
> I like "Cursed" a lot. "There they go" makes me feel like I'm watching Hurt Locker again in places. Gonna listen to more later.


thanks, chocothrax.
thanks much!

oddly (imo), there are a coupla cues in that list that have been "temp'ed"
quite a bit in h-wood films o'er these last few years..... "cursed" among them.

d


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## tobyond (Jun 24, 2009)

My opinions are unoriginal for this thread since I love your stuff. How wonderfully refreshing it is to hear. Thanks for sharing.


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## damoy (Jun 25, 2009)

A really enjoyable listening experience you've created here. The music moved me.


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## R. Soul (Jun 25, 2009)

The only reason I did ratings was to demonstrate that I don't think the tracks are the worst thing ever. I just don't think as highly of them as other people here. 

I mean, after all, how is someone gonna improve if all the feedback you get is "I love it", "great stuff" and "lovely music"? 
I tried to give some mix feedback as Poseur requested, which is more than anyone else did I might ad. 

CDFG: If indeed you would rate Tom Waits that high no wonder I don't rate this, cause I don't like him at all. On the other hand, I quite like Hans Zimmer :D

Ned: I don't know about always giving a different opinion. I virtually like everything Waywyn, Toxeen, Craig Sharmat, Jacques Matthias, Theo Krueger and a bunch of other members' here music. Heck, I even complemented your music on KVR a while back (where I go under the name Armadillo).
What prompted you to check my old comments on people's music anyway? Do you really think my comments here are that far off the mark? :? 

Kid-surf: I'm not sure what to respond to that other than perhaps we are listening for two different things. It's like a track where only one note is hit on a guitar for 3 min. One guy hear one note repeated over and over is missing melody and harmony and another guy hear all the the nuances of the note - changes of timbre, dynamics and general modulation of that note and is wildly impressed by how much emotion one can put into one note and the fact that someone could play 64th notes at 120 bpm. Horses for courses I suppose.


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## CFDG (Jun 25, 2009)

R. Soul @ Thu Jun 25 said:


> CDFG: If indeed you would rate Tom Waits that high no wonder I don't rate this, cause I don't like him at all. On the other hand, I quite like Hans Zimmer :D


Now you're lookin' for troubles. o-[][]-o 

Christian

Keep the quantize - way down in the hole. =D


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 25, 2009)

[quote:3ea268b142="R. Soul @ 25/6/2009"]Ned: I don't know about always giving a different opinion. I virtually like everything Waywyn, Toxeen, Craig Sharmat, Jacques Matthias, Theo Krueger and a bunch of other members' here music. Heck, I even complemented your music on KVdd separate routing for it (separate from my current strings input channels). Shouldn't be a problem though, as I will get a 2nd RME HDSP9656 and use 24 Adat inputs instead of 12 and I have enough outputs on my sample PC's.

I will do some demo checks this weekend.

Although I like my VSL strings, they are a bit too "correct". That's why I like to keep using some edited Ultimate Strings patches, which have more grittiness.

@Niah: I really dig your Depp avatar! :mrgreen: d  þpP  [ See if that setup works for you. If you have problems, the Sync I/O would be the next step.  þqP Re: Download Vocal Samplesê Depending on what you want, there are vocal loops on the zero-g site for download. The XTC set sounds nice. If you need multisamples, the only one I know of online is at MI7, which features an overpriced choir from Wizoo, I believe. W þrP  N The USA is still the biggest polluter per-capita, by a large margin I believe. # þsP 1Re: Do you own or know "Halls of Fame"?éNo I don't think he did. We had really nice conversations, so I trust this guy (apart from his "marketing stuff"). Also, I didn't use the Wild Spaces etc. which he seems to have included.

I regret what this may do to my "exposure" though, because I don't have distributors, I don't advertize and I avoid sending in


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 25, 2009)

R. Soul @ 25/6/2009 said:


> I mean, after all, how is someone gonna improve if all the feedback you get is "I love it", "great stuff" and "lovely music"?



Poseur has dropped a few hints as to his experience: 30+ yrs in the biz, studio pictures, press critiques, etc. Could it be that maybe, just maybe, he is like that fine, rich, deep wine that a connaisseur would kill for because they can appreciate all the detail, and that a beer drinker will find too 'strong' or too 'weak'? Could his music possibly have that rare quality, that magic that touches people in a way that is hard to describe except in glowing terms?


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## CFDG (Jun 25, 2009)

Tu devrais dormir un peu Ned (FB - j'étais là aussi). C'est un dialogue de sourds. Taste, taste... 
With all the energy you spent on your friends and their cause these last days, could you be slightly more irritable than usual about lighter matters? 

C.


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## R. Soul (Jun 25, 2009)

Ned:
I did say "VIRTUALLY like everything", not "like every damn thing they ever done in their whole life".

I don't understand the concept that you have to find someone's music fantastic otherwise you are not open. 

And lastly, if explaining how different tastes work is an insult then I might as well stop commenting here cause I suspect anything I say can be twisted to appear as an insult. So, I'm outta here.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 25, 2009)

I think one is entitled to like what they want. I can certainly see why one might not like all of poseur's stuff. While I may not love everything he does I look at the big picture and intention and go I really dig him, but I can certainly see why some stuff might not float everyones boat. I hear cuts where i go that's really cool but i don't want to write like that and then I hear something that shows depth way beyond what I was expecting (this of course from my own narrow view point). I realize he could write just about anyway he wants but he made the artistic choice to do what he did. 

In a certain way it is a further compliment to create music that can be polarizing.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 25, 2009)

This is PRECISELY why I maintain my policy of not commenting publicly on others work, even when they ask for comments.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 25, 2009)

R. Soul,

I apologize for my aggressive tone. I have a lot of Mediterranean blood in me, and it sometimes gets the better of my Canadian temperament. :wink:

Christian, merci!


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## gamalataki (Jun 25, 2009)

I finally got a chance to hear what all the hubbub was about and, without seeing the film, it sounds like a clear and distinct voice was given to it, with each cue telling a substory, which is what it's all about.

I get a sense of what the film is saying, without seeing it. A cue is worth a thousand pictures, when it's working. Here my imagination is stimulated and free to concoct it's own images, without paying attention to the music. In regards to film music, without picture, I don't think there's a higher goal.

_Scott


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## poseur (Jun 26, 2009)

Ashermusic @ Thu Jun 25 said:


> This is PRECISELY why I maintain my policy of not commenting publicly on others work, even when they ask for comments.


given my own "take" on opinions, personal agendas & the internet,
this is hard for me to understand.....

what film-composers are present, on VI,
are here w/the express knowledge that we're speaking with our peers,
who are also (in some way, by dint of the nature of our world) 
also our competitors.
but:
joining a group like this also implies, to me,
a certain desire to "share", to create some kind of air of bonhomie,
of good-will & (dare i say it?) "community".
in that light:
any opinion meant in that spirit can help bond these remote internet-"communities"
together, a bit further.

it presumes, though, that one is 
--- with a certain, actual generosity ---
looking-for-the-good in one's compatriots' work,
regardless of the constant internal noiseflow of self-comparative,
paradigmatic set-ups (including, but not limited to)
"what i would have done, if it were me".

without that generosity present,
opinions often appear like posturing to me,
even if the posture is only subtly self-inflating.
an ego is a terrible thing to waste.

i've noticed in my life as a musician that i can learn something from anyone,
even if+when i don't necessarily notice that learning during its occurrence.

generosity. bonhomie. peers. community.
that's what i'm talking about.
"tough love"?
still ok!
but, not ok from a perspective of condescension, for me.....
if i see myself taking that line,
i don't post..... or will delete the post that serves no-one.

as regards peter's "controversial" post:
i believe that a strong part of folks' reaction to it was
that it seemed presented as a reaction to others' reactions.....
which may have implied, for some folks,
some kinda focus on the primacy of opinions,
as opposed to actually feeding any working, musical helpfulness.....
which,
in the deeply competitive realm of working musicians,
seems to do nothing-of-value for any sense-of-community of VI,
a community of, presumably, peers.

in any case,
i _did_, in fact, learn something from peter's posts,
though that learning was not quite derived from his actual critique
of that specific score.

at the very, very least,
it spurred me to listen to his own (non-film, i think) music,
which i enjoyed in my own way.

some of my "competitors" are, in fact, my friends & supporters,
as i am for them.....
though we may do things quite differently,
and may not share musical perspectives, backgrounds,
likes & dislikes & etc.
respect for the work, respect for the intentions,
respect for the intention behind the execution
& some compassion for the seeming inequities of circumstance is all it takes.

just sayin'.

d


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## Ashermusic (Jun 26, 2009)

I respect your point of view, Poseur, and in a perfect community, made up of peers who are all generous of spirit, that would be true.

But IMHO, that is not what we have here, or any of the other forums where virtually anybody can participate. Relly, wouldn't you learn just as much by sending something off to some trusted and respected composer friends privately, as I do when i want opinions?

I just think the percentage of b.s/subjective opinions to good suggestions/valuable insight is too high a signal to noise ratio.


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## poseur (Jun 26, 2009)

Ashermusic @ Fri Jun 26 said:


> I respect your point of view, Poseur, and in a perfect community, made up of peers who are all generous of spirit, that would be true.


yeah, i dig; completely understood, i think.



Ashermusic @ Fri Jun 26 said:


> But IMHO, that is not what we have here, or any of the other forums where virtually anybody can participate. Relly, wouldn't you learn just as much by sending something off to some trusted and respected composer friends privately, as I do when i want opinions?
> 
> I just think the percentage of b.s/subjective opinions to good suggestions/valuable insight is too high a signal to noise ratio.


i see that, too.....
sometimes, it's just too much bother to decipher
how to avoid engaging the unengageable.

otoh, jay:
since i'm a regular irregular at this 'net thing, anymore.....
i suppose i still think that, when we _are_ here
(or there, in another forum where there may also exist some creative/experiential resonances,
even if only in the deep background)
it's nice to think that we might still offer some of that generosity,
regardless.
once in a while?
maybe it's cheap for me to even suggest it, though,
as the fulltime comer'n'goer that i am..... maybe it's just overly optimistic "sniping"
on my part.
head-in-the-clouds "trolling".
i dunno, really.

the sociological phenomena that is the 'net.....

d


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 26, 2009)

When I was a teacher (in another life), I learned some things from my students, especially when they would question concepts/ideas I had taken for granted. Non-peers can sometimes help you see/hear things in a new light. I believe, as in most cases in the pursuit of bettering one's craft, that feedback from a range of voices, fresh and seasoned, is best.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 26, 2009)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Jun 26 said:


> When I was a teacher (in another life), I learned some things from my students, especially when they would question concepts/ideas I had taken for granted. Non-peers can sometimes help you see/hear things in a new light. I believe, as in most cases in the pursuit of bettering one's craft, that feedback from a range of voices, fresh and seasoned, is best.



While this is no doubt sometimes true I still hold that an educated and experienced person's opinion is worth far more than the opinion of one who is not. If I did not except this as gospel, I would have wasted a huge percentage of my lifetime of learning.

And by and large, most (noty you)who make this argument are the latter, not the former.

It reminds me of the time 30 years ago, I was playing and singing in a piano bar. A customer came yup and repeatedly asked me for Country songs, which I did not know. I offered to play a Kenny Rogers song and he indignantly said, "Kenny Rogers is not Country."

I apologized but he kept asking for others.Finally, frustrated he said to me, "A GOOD musician can play anything."

Normally, I would have shined this on but he caught me on the wrong day. Iaidto him, "Sop you are saying to me that if Leonard Bernstein walks in here and cannot play a Waylon Jennings song he is not a good musician?"

Taken aback, he stammered, "Err... yes!

I realize this goes against the prevailing cultural ethos but IMHO while we do not want to be snobs and automatically reject the opinions of people who are not peers, it is equally unwise IMHO to value them the same.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 26, 2009)

I agree with you. I never thought that the two were equal (fresh vs seasoned). Just that there's value in both, although not equal value.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 26, 2009)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Jun 26 said:


> I agree with you. I never thought that the two were equal (fresh vs seasoned). Just that there's value in both, although not equal value.



Where we possibly still disagree is the ratio of relative value


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## Niah (Jun 26, 2009)

I certainly have gained so much from day one from this community and I have tried to give back as much as I can.

After all the motto of this forum is "musicians helping musicians", and trust me I felt that from day one.

I can't help to feel gratitude for the founders of this site that fought and are still fighting for a place that isn't controled by ads and devs, although they cohexist in here.

The great advantages to me of the internet and certainly communities like this one is that you have access to a much wider audience/people. This community couldn't be more diverse and getting feedback from others who are completely different from you is invaluable IMHO. I don't like this feeling or living in a bubble and I want to reach out. I don't like this notion of hierachy that certain opinions are not valid. 

That's why I love the internet and this community. Of course I would like to say that this community is still as great as when It was when I came here. But I see alot of competition and hostility. However I see alot of good things too. Anyway things change and that's just how it is.

One of the biggest lessons I've learn in life is that you learn more about yourself and where you are supposed to be with people who are different from you.

And I can't tell you how much I am learning with kids and non-musicians these days, relating to what Ned has said.


And I also would just like to say that in all 5 years that I visit these section people have been very helpful with objective critiques about mixing, mastering, production, composition, etc...and rarely comment that they didn't like the music, which nothing wrong with that, but painting a whole portrait with this "incident" is unfair in respect with has happened here all these 5 years.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 26, 2009)

Niah @ Fri Jun 26 said:


> One of the biggest lessons I've learn in life is that you learn more about yourself and where you are supposed to be with people who are different from you.
> 
> And I can't tell you how much I am learning with kids and non-musicians these days, relating to what Ned has said.



Yes, that is what I am supposed to believe I know but I think it is a crock.

While that is certainly true of life in general and my personal development as a human being, I am sorry, but composing music is a CRAFT and you learn about it from CRAFTSMEN.

And while I can perhaps learn many lessons about life from kids like my piano students and Logic students and non-musicians I am NOT going to learn anything about the craft of making music from them, other than how to please them.

And isn't this particular forum supposed to be dedicated to furthering that craft?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 26, 2009)

Jay,

How can you say to someone who starts off one sentence by saying, "One of the lessons I've learned in life...", and the other with, "And, I can't tell you how much I'm learning from...", that it's nonsense? Niah is relating his personal experience. Your own musical experience/philosophy may be different surely, but that doesn't make it crock.


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## Niah (Jun 26, 2009)

Ashermusic @ Fri Jun 26 said:


> Niah @ Fri Jun 26 said:
> 
> 
> > One of the biggest lessons I've learn in life is that you learn more about yourself and where you are supposed to be with people who are different from you.
> ...


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## poseur (Jun 26, 2009)

Niah @ Fri Jun 26 said:


> And I also would just like to say that in all 5 years that I visit these section people have been very helpful with objective critiques about mixing, mastering, production, composition, etc...and rarely comment that they didn't like the music, which nothing wrong with that, but painting a whole portrait with this "incident" is unfair in respect with has happened here all these 5 years.


i don't know about these 5 yrs,
as, while i've been here for about 2 yrs (i think),
i'm not that present.
as well, many of my posts don't often seem to warrant responses, so.
no big deal! i'm just observing, therein.

but, i submit, still:
i don't think of peter's post as "an incident".....
i was simply attempting to outline my limited understanding 
(or, lack, thereof)
of the nature of his reaction to others' reactions & etc.

naturally, this doesn't mean i couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't have a response to it, at all;
i just don't personally see it as important enough to be considered
as some kind of "marked incident".

d


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## Ashermusic (Jun 26, 2009)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Jun 26 said:


> Jay,
> 
> How can you say to someone who starts off one sentence by saying, "One of the lessons I've learned in life...", and the other with, "And, I can't tell you how much I'm learning from...", that it's nonsense? Niah is relating his personal experience. Your own musical experience/philosophy may be different surely, but that doesn't make it crock.



I am just trying to narrow his statement to the arenas of life where it makes senseo me from the areas where it does not so that it is just not a platitude. 

We can learn larger lessons in life from anybody if we are open to it. I fully acknowledge that.

But this forum is not Life Lessons-control.net, it is a forum supposedly devoted to the craft of composing music and there is little to be learned about that from people who do not know as much or more than you do, other than what they like or do not like.

So if someone tells me they are learning about humanity, touching people, generosity of spirit, etc. from kids and non-musicians, well that is fine, but if he says he is learning about the craft of composing music from kids, I am going to call it sentimental b.s, because IMO that is what it is.


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## poseur (Jun 26, 2009)

to get back to music, somehow..... and art, craft or neither:
ha!

a response to christian & craig's queries in regards to instrumentation:

i think y'all guys were asking about the instruments on which i performed this,
so:

the bulk of the *textures* were performed on a whittled-down version of my
normal live+studio set-up:
*electric guitar, voice & feedback-loops* using a *fryette pittbull 45 amp*
feeding a *modified lexicon pcm42, an echoplex digital pro and a lexicon pcm80*;
these are pre-mixed in stereo via a *modified rane sm82 mixer*,
and were tracked in stereo, direct, via an *ADA micro-cab II* into* m-audio octane mic-preamps*: lo-fi!
in most cases, the electric guitar was my trusty *teuffel niwa*;
it feels great, & is very quiet when played in proximity to mucho local digital electronics
(including 2x22" LCD computer screens and a 42" "big picture"-screen).

the *lap-steel* (w/2 manually-manipulated pitch changers, á la pedal steel)
was a *duesenberg pomona 6*,
and was recorded through the same amp/pre-mixer chain,
but in mono, using a *RetroChannel mic-pre/comp-limiter/eq*.
the steel was stereoised in the mix, primarily using Reaktor5.

the capri air-organ was, on remembrance & recovery, a combination of performance & sampling:
the performed parts were recorded w/a *beyer 160 ribbon-mic* into the RetroChannel.

the *harmonium* was a *bina deluxe* (tuned to 440),
recorded as the capri was.

the *"mandolin"-esque* parts were played on a *hi-tuned 12-string gryphon*;
most were recorded "direct" via the RetroChannel, but some were recorded in the room
using a *beyer m500 ribbon* into the RetroChannel.

the *nylon-string guitar* is a student-grade rodriguez classical instrument,
and was recorded with a *beyer 140 ribbon*,
through the RetroChannel.

the low-tuned, slidey & ebow'ed *acoustic guitars* were a first-year-of-issue *national delphi*,
using the onboard *highlander pickup*, again, into the RetroChannel.

many of the *hand-claps & thigh-slaps* were recorded as contiguous tracks 
onto my *iPhone* (using *BIAS iProRecorder*), and then transferred into the Mac;
some overdubs, though, were done in the "big" room w/an omni-mic pre-amped
by the m-audio octane.

some of the "bubbling"-parts (like, in "the new hell" & "to the crime scene")
were originally performed as guitar-derived quasi-"loops",
but were intended to be diddled on the Mac.....
..... so, i diddled them.

for better or worse,
i was completely alone in the room.....
playing at being the 'poser, engineer, performer & mixer.
i haven't decided, yet, if i'll be the mastering engineer, or not, yet;
i'll give that decision a few more weeks.....

d


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 26, 2009)

Wow, thanks for that orgasm-provoking (well at least for our gang) list! But you know d, you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble just by using this:

http://www.musiclab.com/products/realgtr_info.htm
:lol: :wink:


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## poseur (Jun 26, 2009)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Jun 26 said:


> Wow, thanks for that orgasm-provoking (well at least for our gang) list! But you know d, you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble just by using this:
> 
> http://www.musiclab.com/products/realgtr_info.htm
> :lol: :wink:


i tried it!
i just couldn't make it sound "bad" enough, for my tastes.
¡ ha !

d


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## Hannes_F (Jun 26, 2009)

Well, for what it is worth I am glad that there are responses and comments here because without them no music would be posted ...

And what a loss would be that!

The second thing I am personally glad about is that I loved your music long before knowing anything like equipment list, credits, name and whatnot, so there must be still something good about my ears, ha! 8) 

Seriously, this is a very inspiring thread ...


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## Niah (Jun 26, 2009)

poseur @ Fri Jun 26 said:


> Niah @ Fri Jun 26 said:
> 
> 
> > naturally, this doesn't mean i couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't have a response to it, at all;
> ...



I agree, and that's why I put incident between "". I couldn't find a better word at the time sorry ...
*occurrence* suits better.


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## cc64 (Jun 26, 2009)

Hey Poseur,

in a previous post i said you where many things except a Poseur. By that i meant that in french a poseur is someone who poses instead of actually being...

I see from your posts that you use the term 'poser for what you are  

Just wanted to make sure you understand why i wrote this.

Best,

Claude


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## poseur (Jun 26, 2009)

cc64 @ Fri Jun 26 said:


> Hey Poseur,
> 
> in a previous post i said you where many things except a Poseur. By that i meant that in french a poseur is someone who poses instead of actually being...
> 
> ...


ha!
merci, vraiment.

pardon mon nearly-impossible-to-understand français, mais:
pas de problème, pour moi.....

en tout cas, je comprends le sens,
c'est la raison pour laquelle je l'ai choisie.
il est conçu comme un peu d'auto-déprécie bilingue "word-play".

d


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