# Serial Code for Kontakt Instruments?



## Maxheadroom

Hello,

is there good/prevalent way to add an (offline) serial key authorisation to your Kontakt instrument? Does anyone have experience with this?

Thank you in advance!
Best,
Max


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## henrik242

You mean for copy protection? Only way is to partner up with NI.


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## Maxheadroom

Yes for copy protection. Ok, thanks.


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## Joakim

I think it was realitone instruments that have scripted serial key authorisation, maybe mike will chime in.


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## nordicguy

Some instruments (if not all?) from Audio Reward (Kontakt Hub) e.g., asks for a s# the first time you open it.
It must then be save as.


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## Mike Greene

Joakim said:


> I think it was realitone instruments that have scripted serial key authorisation, maybe mike will chime in.


Here's how ours works:


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## d.healey

You can script it (which isn't difficult to crack) or you can pay NI to encode it, which is even easier to crack


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## Maxheadroom

Thank you everyone!


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## Silence-is-Golden

8dio uses watermarking, is that also easy to "crack"?


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## EvilDragon

You can't crack watermarks, but you can purchase with a fake/stolen ID and then it's untraceable (or traceable to a wrong person)...

Yes, this is very wrong, but also yes, it has also happened already numerous times.


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## d.healey

Silence-is-Golden said:


> 8dio uses watermarking, is that also easy to "crack"?


Even if they don't use stolen details and you find out who they are, what are you going to do about it... Other than blacklist them


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## Lindon

We have one too, here's a video of it at work:



There's plenty of threads about authorisation here, and many people saying its a waste of time, our experience is differnt to that.


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## d.healey

still_lives said:


> Curious. Can you "call home" from within a Kontakt script?


No, thank goodness!



> What's to stop someone from distributing the serial number along with the library? How are you ensuring that a particular serial number can only used by one single user?


Nothing. It's the same with all forms of watermarking, it is purely a deterrent, it has no other purpose. All the developer can do if someone shares their watermarked software online is download it, see who uploaded it, and blacklist them.


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## willbedford

With our libraries, we have a simple 'load license file' screen. The server generates a unique NKA with each order, then the user loads it into Kontakt once. No inputting keys manually. No re-saving the patch.
So far it has been very effective at deterring piracy.


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## MartinH.

EvilDragon said:


> You can't crack watermarks, but you can purchase with a fake/stolen ID and then it's untraceable (or traceable to a wrong person)...
> 
> Yes, this is very wrong, but also yes, it has also happened already numerous times.



I asked this in another thread, but didn't get a reply I think: do they watermark the instrument patch or the samples? Meaning is your final audio export watermarked, or just the instrument patch? I don't mind the patch, but I would mind if the audio was watermarked.


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## EvilDragon

Audio watermarking is a bunch of snakeoil as far as I'm concerned.


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## Lindon

willbedford said:


> With our libraries, we have a simple 'load license file' screen. The server generates a unique NKA with each order, then the user loads it into Kontakt once. No inputting keys manually. No re-saving the patch.
> So far it has been very effective at deterring piracy.


Yeah we did that with the DrumDrops products, it generated about 20-40% more support calls on authorisation issues, including "Ive accidentally deleted my key..." type calls . So we went with the one above instead.


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## willbedford

Lindon said:


> Yeah we did that with the DrumDrops products, it generated about 20-40% more support calls on authorisation issues, including "Ive accidentally deleted my key..." type calls . So we went with the one above instead.


I've never had any issues. If they delete it they can just download it again - it's just a link in the email, below the main library download.


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## Mike Greene

willbedford said:


> With our libraries, we have a simple 'load license file' screen. The server generates a unique NKA with each order, then the user loads it into Kontakt once. No inputting keys manually. No re-saving the patch.
> So far it has been very effective at deterring piracy.


I've been considering a method like that. Once the customer goes through that process of loading the nka with one nki, does he still have to do it with the other instrument nki's? Or does doing it once take care of all the others? To me, that would be the main advantage of this method.


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## willbedford

Mike Greene said:


> I've been considering a method like that. Once the customer goes through that process of loading the nka with one nki, does he still have to do it with the other instrument nki's? Or does doing it once take care of all the others? To me, that would be the main advantage of this method.


It takes care of the others. Even with the manual code entry, that's pretty simple to do.

The main advantage of the NKA method is that you can have a long and complex key, without needing any 'creative' user input system  (I do admire yours though)


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## Tod

Mike Greene said:


> Here's how ours works:





Lindon said:


> We have one too, here's a video of it at work:





willbedford said:


> With our libraries, we have a simple 'load license file' screen.





d.healey said:


> Nothing, it is purely a deterrent, it has no other purpose.



I altered some of David's words here, and I hope you don't mind David, because I think it's basically what you're trying to say, but isn't it true, isn't it really more of a psychological deterrent? Or is there some true protection here.

I do see the advantages though, for a psychological deterrent. It might not deter that person who's out there, hell bent on using a commercial instrument and it's samples to there own benefit, but it might keep that kid down the street, or an average person on the net, form giving it to their friends.


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## Mike Greene

willbedford said:


> It takes care of the others. Even with the manual code entry, that's pretty simple to do.


I could have the script automatically save an nka file when they enter the code, but I fear the file getting saved to a wrong place, or the location being changed. IIRC, there are two different default locations, depending on whether it's Kontakt or Kontakt Player.

With that said, I do think I'm going to try it when I release an instrument with multiple nki's, but I fear the potential issues. Many of my customers are very unskilled with Kontakt and even computers in general, so we've seen some pretty bizarre folder structures.


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## chillbot

Mike Greene said:


> Many of my customers are very unskilled with Kontakt and even computers in general


That hurts, Mike Greene. That hurts me where it hurts.


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## Andrew Aversa

I'm curious as to how these manual authorization systems compare vs. NI encryption for Kontakt Player? All of our libraries have been pirated equally and we gave up fighting it years ago. It seems to me that if someone just shared their NKA and NKI files, anyone could use it...


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## Mike Greene

zircon_st said:


> I'm curious as to how these manual authorization systems compare vs. NI encryption for Kontakt Player? All of our libraries have been pirated equally and we gave up fighting it years ago. It seems to me that if someone just shared their NKA and NKI files, anyone could use it...


Yes, they could, but by making a point of showing the customer that I'll be able to trace whose copy is whose, I think this cuts down on that. It limits piracy to the "stolen credit card" crowd, which slows the piracy process down. (Stolen credit card numbers aren't free, so those guys can only pirate when they have a number.) For me, the proof is in the pudding, in that my titles generally take a year or more before they get pirated. I know a couple other companies with similar results.

The other advantage is that if something does show up on a pirate site, I know who not to give updates to. For example, RealiDrums 2.0 was released over two years ago, but the version on the torrents is 1.2. To get 2.0 on the torrent sites, someone would have to get a stolen credit card again.


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## willbedford

Mike Greene said:


> I could have the script automatically save an nka file when they enter the code, but I fear the file getting saved to a wrong place, or the location being changed.


I'm saving the arrays in the Data folder. That's always in the same place relative to the NKR, so the user can move the whole library somewhere else with no issues.
If a user is going to go in and move/delete individual files from a library then, well, they can expect things to break.

The only issue I've ever had was when they were storing their libraries in a read-only location, so Kontakt couldn't write to the file. I got them to move the library to the desktop, activate it, then move it back.


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## Lindon

willbedford said:


> I'm saving the arrays in the Data folder. (I think 2 customers out of thousands),.


Thousands. Lucky You.


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## Lindon

Mike Greene said:


> For me, the proof is in the pudding, in that my titles generally take a year or more before they get pirated.



Exactly our experience too.


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## raidmarji

willbedford said:


> I'm saving the arrays in the Data folder. That's always in the same place relative to the NKR, so the user can move the whole library somewhere else with no issues.
> If a user is going to go in and move/delete individual files from a library then, well, they can expect things to break.
> 
> The only issue I've ever had was when they were storing their libraries in a read-only location, so Kontakt couldn't write to the file. I got them to move the library to the desktop, activate it, then move it back.



Hi
What if someone distributes the library along with the nka??


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## d.healey

raidmarji said:


> What if someone distributes the library along with the nka??


Then the dev can download it and see who uploaded it - not much they can do about it though other than blacklist the user.


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## wst3

chillbot said:


> That hurts, Mike Greene. That hurts me where it hurts.


Careful there Chill, or someone might leak the 4522 support emails with your name on them<G>!


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## raidmarji

d.healey said:


> Then the dev can download it and see who uploaded it - not much they can do about it though other than blacklist the user.


Besides, a tough job to create a unique nka that should be changed with each script unless they have the same name.


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## Levitanus

raidmarji said:


> Besides, a tough job to create a unique nka that should be changed with each script unless they have the same name.


This will be a total unrespect for users.
Here is my opinion on any practice of copy-protection:
I've distributed three instruments by myself, every took about 500% more than previous, And the only second was copy-protected. I think, until some point when your company becomes "spitfire", there is no any valuable profit from copy-protection. You're just making much more on popularization, good user-experience, and price-policy.
When a company becomes a "corporation", things go totally different. Other mechanics works and other goals are been achieved. I would like never become a corporation 
P.S. The fact, that @Mike Greene could make an update to his instruments cost me and my friends muuch more than any copy-protection practice)

I also have some jujments about selling soft at all, but still I'm not running workable model, I'm silent))


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## Fredeke

Just a question. Do all libraries get pirated ? Or do the more expensive ones get pirated more ?
If the cheaper ones could do without protection, what would be the tipping price ?



Levitanus said:


> I also have some jujments about selling soft at all, but still I'm not running workable model, I'm silent))



Same here.


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## d.healey

Fredeke said:


> Do all libraries get pirated ?


Impossible to say for certain but we can say almost all.



> Or do the more expensive ones get pirated more ?


Not necessarily. The more popular ones tend to be available in more places and for a longer period of time. Generally the more successful the product the more it will be available from unauthorized sources. But some software that is released for free gets uploaded too.


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## Levitanus

Fredeke said:


> If the cheaper ones could do without protection, what would be the tipping price ?


As Dave said, it's not a much about cost. Just, when business becomes "Business", nature laws change around, and the only CEO knows how))


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## Lindon

Fredeke said:


> Just a question. Do all libraries get pirated ? Or do the more expensive ones get pirated more ?
> If the cheaper ones could do without protection, what would be the tipping price ?
> 
> 
> 
> Same here.


There is no tipping point/price - even $5 libraries get pirated if they dont have any protection.


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## chillbot

Lindon said:


> even $5 libraries get pirated if they dont have any protection.


Someone would steal our frogs??!?


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## Fredeke

chillbot said:


> Someone would steal our frogs??!?


I wish I got the joke :-/


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## d.healey

Fredeke said:


> I wish I got the joke :-/


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## dflood

chillbot said:


> Someone would steal our frogs??!?


How did Frog Guiros get overlooked for the TEC awards. It represents a giant leap(frog) in technology.

I’ll just show myself out.


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## Fredeke

d.healey said:


>



Aaah!
Sounds great !


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