# What would you do?



## sourcefor (Dec 18, 2017)

What do you do when some else takes credit for doing all the composition publicly, when you do 98% of the composition? EX: A person I write music for recently did a TV interview and they said they composed all the music. Do I call them out at risk of losing a job or just go with it, the checks always clear, LOL!???


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## Daryl (Dec 18, 2017)

Is your name on the cue sheet? Do you want to work with them again?


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## Levitanus (Dec 18, 2017)

what consist 2%? Just for fun.
Seriously, such things have to be discussed before the work have started.
I would forget about the particular case, but check this point in the contract next time with this guy.
For me - normal practice to be not noticed as composer, and this is written inside the contract. Basically, i have some sort of co-author rights as arranger, but my name could be not mentioned in public at all.



Spoiler



by the way, sometimes it hurts  For example: here three tracks made from one list of piano source-score
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jsunm5bf42bhub/замок 1.mp3?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w7sv39zao6mdtld/замок 2 хор.mp3?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6oxzghkkslathu/замок 3.mp3?dl=0


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## sourcefor (Dec 18, 2017)

Daryl said:


> Is your name on the cue sheet? Do you want to work with them again?


My name is on the Playbill in SMALL letters but her name is at the TOP in BIG letters and She only writes a small amount of lyrics and literally NONE of the music and I would like to work for them again but have a bit of a bad taste in my mouth! And it is a work for hire, but I have NOT signed a contract for years with them just did the work.


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## sourcefor (Dec 18, 2017)

Yeah I guess I should take it for what it is, I have done ALOT of work for them in the past. I guess I am the Ghost writer, I just wanted to know what people thought of this and has anyone ever experienced this!


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## Levitanus (Dec 18, 2017)

sourcefor said:


> I have NOT signed a contract for years with them just did the work.


never late to start)
If they rejected, may be it's signal to find-out another ways to feed yourself) God bless, we have no communism and Japanism, bound us at one work forever)


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## sourcefor (Dec 18, 2017)

I mean I don't really want to be famous but a little props. would be nice...oh well nature of the business..thanks for all the comments!!!


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## Daryl (Dec 19, 2017)

Basically you agree to the terms, or you don't.

Ghost writing is borderline illegal in many countries and is illegal in the UK for PRS members. What is more insidious is that it weakens the argument for composers getting any Royatlies at all. In many other professions, if you do work for hire, your Intellectual Copyright is owned by those who pay you. As composers we expect o receive Royalties, whether or not we were paid to write the music. Any composer who uses a Ghost Writer is basically saying that although he (she) is entitled to keep his Royalties and not relinquish them to the employer, you, as his employee are not. It is a nasty little double standard and, as proven in the Alex Wilkinson case, a dangerous one.

As composers, if we don't speak out against this practice, we have no right to complain when companies want a buy-out of all of our Writers' share of Royalties, and we lose them for ever.

Sorry for the rant...!


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## Levitanus (Dec 19, 2017)

Daryl said:


> buy-out of all of our Writers' share of Royalties, and we lose them for ever.


Correct me, if i'm wrong. 

There can be three different situations between the composer and 'orderer'. The first one, presented by stocks:non-exclusive rights for some points of usage. You give the ready track and it can be used without feature royalty from the 'orderer'.
Music, composed especially for the orderer, but with non-exclusive rights too. Rare point, but very major for us) For example, orderer have not enough money from your view to give him exclusive rights. Or you thing, that you are very important part of team.

most popular: Music, composed especially for the orderer, with exclusive rights moving to him. A see here no problem, because it's just


Daryl said:


> In many other professions, if you do work for hire, your Intellectual Copyright is owned by those who pay you.



Amount of money, been the matter in all areas can be totally different 
By the way, contract can be made with getting exclusive rights to the orderer, but with condition of mentioning autor as autor (autor's rights can not be got out, if i not mistaked).



Spoiler: ;)



In Russia we don't care about this  Just no rights)


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## sourcefor (Dec 19, 2017)

I agree with ALL of your points, its just the fact that she does NOT write a NOTE of the music (just the lyrics which are about 2% of the music)and I have all the sessions to prove it, but takes credit for being the composer of all the music that gets to me. In the end it's a job take or leave it and it's a touring show so I will probably never have to claim Royalties, so the issue may be a dead end!


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## Daryl (Dec 19, 2017)

Levitanus said:


> Correct me, if i'm wrong


You are not talking about Broadcast Royalties, which is the most important thing regarding all of this. If your name is not on the cue sheet, you get no Royalties.


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## chillbot (Dec 19, 2017)

sourcefor said:


> (just the lyrics which are about 2% of the music)


Hmm, wat? She is writing 2% of the lyrics or she is writing all the lyrics? Which one?

You sound a little naive and maybe a bit flippant about this whole situation. This is a good starting point... there are a lot of knowledgeable people here like Daryl who can steer you in the right direction, but you need to explain the situation in a bit more detail and specifics. And there is probably a better place to look for help than a sample library internet forum.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 19, 2017)

sourcefor said:


> In the end it's a job take or leave it and it's a touring show so I will probably never have to claim Royalties, so the issue may be a dead end!



And you did this without a contract? No offence, but you don't have a say in anything if that's the case....you simply get burnt. Never, ever take a job like this without a contract, especially a touring theatrical production where ticket sales are involved. If unsure, just hire a specialized lawyer and have him/her create or review the contract and ensure you aren't getting screwed. It's a very small price to pay (I know, because I have been burnt myself).


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 19, 2017)

sourcefor said:


> I mean I don't really want to be famous but a little props. would be nice...oh well nature of the business..thanks for all the comments!!!


Are you really working professionally or just started out? It sounds for me that you have no big insight in whats going on in such business. Such things are managed prior your start working on a project. Are there any contracts?..this is the answer to your question..


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## Desire Inspires (Dec 19, 2017)

Follow the money.


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## Harzmusic (Dec 19, 2017)

Have you talked to your collaborator about that interview and tell her about your problems with it?
Seems to me that after years of working with someone, you should be able to discuss something like that without having to fear for your job. Be respectful, try to leave your emotions out of your communication, and assume no bad intentions. Maybe it was an honest mistake or misunderstanding.

If you are generally credited for the show, you are not a ghostwriter.
They will print the name that generates the most sales bigger, and maybe she did make a contract where she was promised top billing.

So if it is really only about that interview, maybe talk to her about it, before doing anything rash or even take legal action (which I think you shouldn't).
If it is about credit overall talk to whoever pays you and handles marketing. If you don't feel comfortable with doing that alone, talk to your collaborator, and see if she could back you in a discussion of this issue. Make a contract while you're at it.

At least that is what I would do, knowing nothing about your situation.


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## sourcefor (Dec 19, 2017)

Ok a few details: We have been working together for about 7 years and I have been doing this professionally for about 20. I am not naive about the situation as we used to sign contracts as a 'work for hire'. And I understood this but they agreed to put my name in the playbill and give me credit for the music I composed. It used to be, I composed part of the music and other composers did some as well. Now I do MOST if Not ALL of the music as we weed out the old stuff. The last few years there have not been any contracts signed, maybe an oversight. They pay me decent money and I get to do what I love even though much of the music is per spec. She writes the lyrics for all of the music which only entails maybe 2-5 tracks of the show. I get mentioned in the Playbill as 'Additional music by' she gets TOP billing as 'Music composed by' (which is Not correct as she only composes the Lyrics), she just stated in the interview that she composes ALL the music and it stung a bit...maybe I should just let a sleeping dog lie and make a better contract next time..thanks for all the input!


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## Harzmusic (Dec 19, 2017)

sourcefor said:


> I get mentioned in the Playbill as 'Additional music by' she gets TOP billing as 'Music composed by' (which is Not correct as she only composes the Lyrics)



Has this always been like this, or has she contributed music in the past?

Sounds like negotiations can be had to make your overall agreement fit the changed circumstances. I see no shame and no harm in that. It's possible that marketing didn't catch up at all with the developments you just described, and management didn't see a need to change the status quo.


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## sourcefor (Dec 19, 2017)

Harzmusic said:


> Has this always been like this, or has she contributed music in the past?


Not really.... There was always someone else doing the music...She mostly contributes a few ideas and Lyrics, but someone else always writes and records the music.


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## sourcefor (Dec 19, 2017)

She's the musical director and does the Hiring and Lets the composers and singers know what they need but she's more of the executive producer than the composer!


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## sourcefor (Dec 19, 2017)

I am always willing to share credit where credit is due!


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## sourcefor (Dec 19, 2017)

Thanks for talking about this with me I just wanted to bounce it off of other people in the business rather than family and friends whom are biased!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 19, 2017)

sourcefor said:


> And I understood this but they agreed to put my name in the playbill and give me credit for the music I composed. It used to be, I composed part of the music and other composers did some as well. Now I do MOST if Not ALL of the music as we weed out the old stuff. The last few years there have not been any contracts signed, maybe an oversight.



And without anything in writing, there's no proof that they said this, nor are they obligated. I know it's sometimes seems a little "cold" and awkward to get stuff in writing (contract), but when money is involved, it's business. I have been composing for live theater for 20+ years, and there's a contract for each and every production, no matter how small; and even if it's something I do as a freebie or favor. With a theatrical touring production, you could even try and get a small percentage of ticket sales as a royalty.


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## sourcefor (Dec 19, 2017)

Yes Agreements from now on, cannot figure out why they stopped sending me agreements to sign.


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## sourcefor (Dec 19, 2017)

I think they figured the WORK FOR HIRE agreement was a blanket agreement and they owed me nothing other than payment for the music rendered!


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## AllanH (Dec 20, 2017)

If you do "work for hire" (in a legal sense) you may every well have signed over all your rights. The music business is unique in that the artist (is supposed to) get back-end revenue. As a consultant or employee of a company, for instance, you are expected to sign over all your work with any monetization of your work belonging to the company.

Regarding the opening question: I think the only way to get more recognition is to ask for it at contract time. If you initiate a conflict regarding ownership post-contract you're asking for trouble and I suspect it will adversely affect future work.


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## Musicologo (Dec 20, 2017)

In my country I think this is illegal. The one who writes the lyrics is AUTHOR, the one who writes music is COMPOSER and the owner of the track/recording is PRODUCER. They all have different credits and those rights (I think they are called moral rights) are not for sale. And by the way - lyric writing is considered 50% of the musical work, not 2%. Any work that consists of music + lyrics, therefore composer + author, is usually 50-50 rights split. In case there is a PUBLISHER involved with a 50-50 deal, then it would be publisher 50-author 25-composer 25.

You can sell the work and grant the right for them to explore the work, but they cannot say they are the composer when they are solely author or producer or co-composer. IT would be as absurd as one buying a paiting by Van Gogh and then telling they painted it! Surely the buyer of the paiting has the right to have the paiting in the wall and lend it and explore it but he can't say he was the one paiting it, that would be a fraud!!... So In your case I think she can claim to be the author and perhaps the producer but she has to credit you as composer regardless of any payment.


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## sourcefor (Dec 25, 2017)

Musicologo said:


> In my country I think this is illegal. The one who writes the lyrics is AUTHOR, the one who writes music is COMPOSER and the owner of the track/recording is PRODUCER. They all have different credits and those rights (I think they are called moral rights) are not for sale. And by the way - lyric writing is considered 50% of the musical work, not 2%. Any work that consists of music + lyrics, therefore composer + author, is usually 50-50 rights split. In case there is a PUBLISHER involved with a 50-50 deal, then it would be publisher 50-author 25-composer 25.
> 
> You can sell the work and grant the right for them to explore the work, but they cannot say they are the composer when they are solely author or producer or co-composer. IT would be as absurd as one buying a paiting by Van Gogh and then telling they painted it! Surely the buyer of the paiting has the right to have the paiting in the wall and lend it and explore it but he can't say he was the one paiting it, that would be a fraud!!... So In your case I think she can claim to be the author and perhaps the producer but she has to credit you as composer regardless of any payment.



Agreed.... !!!!


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## Mike Fox (Jan 4, 2018)

Contract, or no contract, I dont see how they can legally say that they composed the music. Kinda reminds me of the Margaret Keane situation.

To me it would make more sense If the Playbill credits read...

Lyrics and Vocals by " "

Music composed by " "

I would at least talk to all parties involved, and question their approach. Could it be as simple as a misunderstanding? If not, then I would give them the middle finger and find work elsewhere.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 4, 2018)

mikefox789 said:


> Contract, or no contract, I dont see how they can legally say that they composed the music. Kinda reminds me of the Margaret Keane situation.
> 
> To me it would make more sense If the Playbill credits read...
> 
> ...



Hence the reason for a contract. It should stipulate what will be placed into the Playbill.


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## Mike Fox (Jan 4, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Hence the reason for a contract. It should stipulate what will be placed into the Playbill.


Precisely. I'm not trying to dispute the reasons behind a contract (and this situation would have been avoided with one), but the lack of one isn't a free pass for illegal practices in any situation. It's one thing to leave out an artist's name, but it's a completely different matter when someone else tries to take credit for your work, which is what seems to be going on here. From my understanding, (US) copyright laws protect the original artist, even in the absence of a contract. This particular situation seems to be infringing on that.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 4, 2018)

Totally! It's just downright unethical. I would at very least have a firm conversation with those involved.


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