# Possible to control gain of an insert's EQ knob via the modwheel and....



## RiffWraith (Nov 9, 2013)

....start it from a certain point?

So, if I want to control the gain of an EQ, that's easy. Insert an EQ, and assign CC1 to the EQ's gain knob. Move the modwheel, and the knob moves right along.

But say I want to start the movement of that knob at a set mw point. ie - right now, mw 0 = -18, 64 = 0 and 127 = +18. What I would like to do is have the knob's starting point at 0, and not have the knob move when I move the mw down. The knob wouldn't move until the mw hit whatever number I assign... say 90. So if the mw is at 64, the knob is at 0. If I move the mw down, the knob remains at 0. If I move the mw up, the knob starts to move when the mw hits 90, and then continues to follow it. Understandably, this will not get the knob to +18 as I would not have the full range - but that's ok.

Is there any was to implement this, or am I dreaming?

Thanks in advance.


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## Casey Edwards (Nov 9, 2013)

I know you can script this, but I couldn't tell you how to do it off the top of my head. Something like; just setup a slider or knob and have it ignore everything below 90 with an if statement, then to change the $ENGINE_PAR_GAIN 1,2, or 3 by the increment of the slider/knob you declared if greater than 90.


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## gregjazz (Nov 9, 2013)

No scripting needed--just use the modulation shaper for the MIDI CC modulator.


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## mk282 (Nov 10, 2013)

Modulation shapers are awesome and not enough people know about them. People, read the manuals


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## Casey Edwards (Nov 10, 2013)

mk282 @ Sun Nov 10 said:


> Modulation shapers are awesome and not enough people know about them. People, read the manuals



I just used this for velocity stuff connected to a LP and I loved how quick and easy it was. I never thought about using it for individual gain controls though! Not sure why now that I'm saying that...


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## RiffWraith (Nov 11, 2013)

Thanks guys

So, I had a look at the manual, and I think I have a betrer understanding of the Mod Shaper thing. But it ain't a-workin' for me. I inserted an EQ, mapped CC1 to the gain knob, and can ride the gain knob with the mwheel. But the Mod Shaper guy does not seem to be having an effect on anything - even tho I have selected "gain" on the right. What am I missing?

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/kmod1.jpg


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## Raptor4 (Nov 11, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Mon Nov 11 said:


> What am I missing?


Everything is OK here. Have a look at the image attachment. I have set two Modulators to be able to force the EQ Gain to reach full range +18Db. The table is set according to your original requirements or about 71% (the exact is 90/128*100= 70.31%).
*BTW*. Looking at your image you have set the modulation source to "Velocity" not to CC 1! 
_____________________
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## RiffWraith (Nov 11, 2013)

Thanks for the shot Raptor. How the heck do you insert images like that? :? 

Anyway, I cant get this to work. I added a modulator (as in your shot), and switched both to MIDI CC. The gain knob turns with the mw as it should, but it starts from the bottom of the mw, instead of 90 (or thereabouts).

http://jeffreyhayat.com/kmod2.jpg

So, I am still missing something....

Thanks again.


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## Arbee (Nov 12, 2013)

Perhaps this is something I should already know but here goes, is it possible to anchor EQ to a note fundamental and have it move and respond relative to the chanige in pitch. I often think how useful that would be, to have pitch-relative EQ on an instrument as well as static EQ. That way I can set EQ for, say, violins at 440 then the EQ would move and hopefully colour the sound consistently across the range. Would have thought it not too hard in the MIDI world at least.

But hey, maybe I've been living under a rock, or I've had too many wines tonight :oops: 

.


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## mk282 (Nov 12, 2013)

RiffWraith @ 12.11.2013 said:


> Thanks for the shot Raptor. How the heck do you insert images like that? :?
> 
> Anyway, I cant get this to work. I added a modulator (as in your shot), and switched both to MIDI CC. The gain knob turns with the mw as it should, but it starts from the bottom of the mw, instead of 90 (or thereabouts).
> 
> ...



Yes, why do you have TWO MIDI CC modulators, one being CC0 and the other being CC1? You only need one (CC1). I have it working here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/8re74 ... W_Test.nki


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## mk282 (Nov 12, 2013)

Arbee @ 12.11.2013 said:


> Perhaps this is something I should already know but here goes, is it possible to anchor EQ to a note fundamental and have it move and respond relative to the chanige in pitch. I often think how useful that would be, to have pitch-relative EQ on an instrument as well as static EQ. That way I can set EQ for, say, violins at 440 then the EQ would move and hopefully colour the sound consistently across the range. Would have thought it not too hard in the MIDI world at least.
> 
> But hey, maybe I've been living under a rock, or I've had too many wines tonight :oops:




Yep, this is possible, and I just discovered how. Set the EQ frequency to 440 Hz (but it can be any other, really), modulate it with key position modulator, and just enable the modulation shaper (default linear curve). That's it - the frequency will track the keyboard.


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## KingIdiot (Nov 12, 2013)

Arbee @ Tue Nov 12 said:


> Perhaps this is something I should already know but here goes, is it possible to anchor EQ to a note fundamental and have it move and respond relative to the chanige in pitch. I often think how useful that would be, to have pitch-relative EQ on an instrument as well as static EQ. That way I can set EQ for, say, violins at 440 then the EQ would move and hopefully colour the sound consistently across the range. Would have thought it not too hard in the MIDI world at least.
> 
> But hey, maybe I've been living under a rock, or I've had too many wines tonight :oops:
> 
> .



yes it's possible. You can map the frequency position based on key position. You could go so far as to map multiple EQs and point to the overtone series if you wanted, and do all kinds of neat things. The problem lies in that the EQ's process all stereo sound coming t it, so polyphonic material would be problematic, and heavy vibrato be slightly difficult to work with. As well, working with multiple Kontakt EQs may introduce phase shift and color the sound in, possibly not as predictable a manner as you'd assume.

I've messed with this in the past, an have come back to it, but am doing it in a very different way. Not relying on kontakt EQ. Still in concept phase.


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## germancomponist (Nov 12, 2013)

KingIdiot @ Tue Nov 12 said:


> Arbee @ Tue Nov 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps this is something I should already know but here goes, is it possible to anchor EQ to a note fundamental and have it move and respond relative to the chanige in pitch. I often think how useful that would be, to have pitch-relative EQ on an instrument as well as static EQ. That way I can set EQ for, say, violins at 440 then the EQ would move and hopefully colour the sound consistently across the range. Would have thought it not too hard in the MIDI world at least.
> ...



Remember that you can build a separate group for each note... .


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## Raptor4 (Nov 12, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Mon Nov 11 said:


> The gain knob turns with the mw as it should, but it starts from the bottom of the mw, instead of 90 (or thereabouts).
> So, I am still missing something.....



The only reason which can cause the issue you describe is that you tweak the Gain Knob Automation and the Gain Modulation via same midi message CC1 simultaneously.
In our scenario the Gain knob must be fixed to 0dB while you control the modulator only (the ring around the knob).
I suspect that you have made some midi learning of the Gain knob previously.
Right click the Gain knob and remove the Midi Automation (Fig.1).
Set the Gain knob to 0dB manually and try again (use the Gain knob as a Modulation Offset only). Looking at your new image you have set the upper modulator source to CC0 instead of CC1 !

Regarding the forum image attachment - see (Fig.2).
Regards 
_______________________
www.audiogrocery.com


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## Raptor4 (Nov 12, 2013)

> why do you have TWO MIDI CC modulators, one being CC0 and the other being CC1? You only need one (CC1). I have it working here:



Hi Mario. I gave that advice regarding two modulators set to CC1. The reason is that one Modulator can control the Gain range from 0 to about 12dB. To reach the full range 0-18dB you need second Modulator. Hope that makes sense...
____________________
www.audiogrocery.com


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## RiffWraith (Nov 12, 2013)

Hi Arbee. Wrong thread perhaps? Maybe a mod can move that discussion elsewhere, please?

Thanks Raptor. But this still is not working. I removed MIDI automation with a r-click as suggested, and reassigned. Changed the first mod to CC1, but the gain knob still acts as before. 

Thanks Mario, but your .nki does not work. Load it up, route a MIDI ch to it, and the knob does not turn. If I assign CC1 to it, then it turns the full amount.

Still confused... :?


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## mk282 (Nov 12, 2013)

It works here using any means of sending CC1 to Kontakt. I reckon you might have an issue with your hardware setup there...


I made the NKI in K4.2.4, which version are you running?


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## RiffWraith (Nov 12, 2013)

mk282 @ Tue Nov 12 said:


> It works here using any means of sending CC1 to Kontakt. I reckon you might have an issue with your hardware setup there...
> 
> 
> I made the NKI in K4.2.4, which version are you running?



424 as well.

I don't discount an issue with my setup, but if I had one, wouldn't the knob just not work?


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## RiffWraith (Nov 12, 2013)

Here's a vid of what I am doing... maybe something wrong?

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/kmod.mp4


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## andreasOL (Nov 12, 2013)

...without testing...you have it done twice now, the knob is automated with right click|learn *and* you have the CC modulator with a table. Try removing the automation.

Andreas


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## RiffWraith (Nov 12, 2013)

andreasOL @ Tue Nov 12 said:


> ...without testing...you have it done twice now, the knob is automated with right click|learn *and* you have the CC modulator with a table. Try removing the automation.
> 
> Andreas



Hi, thanks for trying to help.

If I do not drag the MIDI auto over, and r-click/learn auto, the knob turns, but again - for the full amount.

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/kmod2.mp4

Thanks.


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## Raptor4 (Nov 12, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Tue Nov 12 said:


> maybe something wrong?


Yes, you are doing wrong - two things:
1. In my last post I let to know to remove the Midi Learning - you DO NOT have to learn the Gain knob! What I see in the first part of the video you "learn/assign" the Gain to CC1.
2. You need to use some instrument with samples, play a note and tweak the Modulation. The Modulator can not work with Empty instrument.
PS. Do not forget to mouse set the Gain knob to 0dB !
____________________
www.audiogrocery.com


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## KingIdiot (Nov 12, 2013)

germancomponist @ Tue Nov 12 said:


> KingIdiot @ Tue Nov 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Arbee @ Tue Nov 12 said:
> ...



yah.. believe me I know. try building legato instrument with that process  Or using it on existing libs 

I've gone a little further out of the limitations of kontakt now though to try some more radical ideas. So much incredible stuff can be done now.


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## RiffWraith (Nov 12, 2013)

"you DO NOT have to learn the Gain knob! "

I didn't think so (well, not at the first...) but it wasn't working, so I tried that.

"The Modulator can not work with Empty instrument. "

AHHHHH - ok, I did not know this. :!: 

Now it works. Perfectly, in fact. 

Thanks so much! :D


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## germancomponist (Nov 12, 2013)

KingIdiot @ Tue Nov 12 said:


> germancomponist @ Tue Nov 12 said:
> 
> 
> > KingIdiot @ Tue Nov 12 said:
> ...



Very cool!

Tell us more!


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## mk282 (Nov 12, 2013)

germancomponist @ 12.11.2013 said:


> Very cool!
> 
> Tell us more!



In a different thread, please.


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## Raptor4 (Nov 13, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Tue Nov 12 said:


> Now it works. Perfectly, in fact.


I'm glad to hear that you solve that.
Cheers o-[][]-o 
____________________
www.audiogrocery.com


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