# Teaching a High School class about motifs/themes in Film music. Help me with examples!



## DivingInSpace (Oct 31, 2019)

Hello everyone!

I will be teaching a High School class about the use of Liet Motifs and Themes in film music (+ a bit of perspective back to the opera of cause) friday next week, and i am starting to figure out some good examples. I wanna show them how music can be used to tell us things that are not necessarily clear from picture alone, how it conveys feelings, thoughts and helps us understand that danger and/or help is near. There are lots of great examples on this like the use of the shire theme in the hobbit to portray the longing for home, the theme from Jaws to warn us about the shark lurking underneath, the love theme from Star Wars (and Super Man) etc.

These are all good, but as usually when talking about film music and themes, it ends up mainly as a huge "John Williams-jerking session", which is why i am asking you for your favorite examples of the use of themes and liet motifs in film! Of cause something that High School students have a chance of having heard before, but something that goes outside the usual Williams and Howard Shore ones. I am considering some examples from game of thrones, but am afraid it is too early to incorporate major GoT spoilers in High School classes haha.

Thanks a lot!


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## d.healey (Oct 31, 2019)

The pirates of the Caribbean scores are full of themes. All based around Dm 

James Newton Howard's King Kong score has some nice motifs as does his Fantastic Beasts score.


Alexandre Desplat's Isle of Dogs score is quite special, it has a lot of themes that are basically drum rhythms but they are repeated throughout on different instruments.


How to train your Dragon by John Powell has some great themes.

Homeward bound by Bruce Broughton.


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## W Ackerman (Oct 31, 2019)

Dear DivingInSpace,

Can I be in your class?


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## DivingInSpace (Oct 31, 2019)

W Ackerman said:


> Dear DivingInSpace,
> 
> Can I be in your class?


If you are in Denmark next friday, feel free to drop by!


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## DivingInSpace (Oct 31, 2019)

d.healey said:


> The pirates of the Caribbean scores are full of themes. All based around Dm
> 
> James Newton Howard's King Kong score has some nice motifs as does his Fantastic Beasts score.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot, i would love to put in the time myself and analyse all those movies, but sadly i won't have time to go that much in depth with them. Do you remember any specific places in those movies where the use of well established themes and/or motifs helps telling us more than the we can see on screen? I will definitely take the time to go through How to train your dragon though, that soundtrack is just amazing, and i haven't seen it in a long time! (+ it is great to have an animated movie too)


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## Sears Poncho (Oct 31, 2019)

Halloween. Lots of motifs.


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## NormkbPlayer (Oct 31, 2019)

I would take the Track 
" Brooks Was Here " Shawshank Redemption movie. 
It's a real good song. And the scene heartbreaking. 

The Track is only Piano. And it's a simple tune. 
But it's just lures you in, and you're in a trance. 
Do give it a go.
Regards Norman.


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## Fry777 (Oct 31, 2019)

DivingInSpace said:


> I wanna show them how music can be used to tell us things that are not necessarily clear from picture alone, how it conveys feelings, thoughts and helps us understand that danger and/or help is near.



A great condensed example of this is the track "Hand of Fate part 1" from the Signs score by James Newton Howard. It's 5 minutes of themes indicating threat, remembrance, danger, revelation, bravery...

The entire track is gold but have a listen to it from 3:40 to 4:40, it's crazy the amount of different emotions conveyed in that single minute...

Here is the track :



Linked to one of the final scene :


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## I like music (Oct 31, 2019)

This is one of the best videos I've seen related to this topic!


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## DivingInSpace (Oct 31, 2019)

Fry777 said:


> A great condensed example of this is the track "Hand of Fate part 1" from the Signs score by James Newton Howard. It's 5 minutes of themes indicating threat, remembrance, danger, revelation, bravery...
> 
> The entire track is gold but have a listen to it from 3:40 to 4:40, it's crazy the amount of different emotions conveyed in that single minute...
> 
> ...



Holy shit, that's so good! I never actually watched the movie, but that's a huge amount of great themes. Has some of them already been established earlier in the movie? Because in that case i'll have to give it a watch and take some serious notes, that scene is just plain amazingly scored!


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## DivingInSpace (Oct 31, 2019)

I like music said:


> This is one of the best videos I've seen related to this topic!



Will definitely watch this, seems like it can make my research a lot easier!


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## DivingInSpace (Oct 31, 2019)

NormkbPlayer said:


> I would take the Track
> " Brooks Was Here " Shawshank Redemption movie.
> It's a real good song. And the scene heartbreaking.
> 
> ...


Love that movie, so i will definitely check it out, thanks!


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## DivingInSpace (Oct 31, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Halloween. Lots of motifs.


Oooh, a comparative analysis of Laura's theme compared to the new version could be pretty interesting!


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## Richard Wilkinson (Oct 31, 2019)

Signs is a great score 

Do you mean motifs? Rather than motives? Motive is a character thing, motif is a small recurring idea, as per 'leitmotif' in operas. That's the stuff JW is well known for. Jurassic Park has some brilliant examples of that - there's a theme for the park (the idealised fanfare-like idea of what JP is) as well as a theme for the animals (the more regal, slow hymn-like theme) plus themes for various situations, dinos etc.
The 2005 -current series of Doctor Who is quite theme & motif heavy too, LOST is a great example of leitmotif. James Bond has the classic well-known themes, used in different ways by different composers.

Daniel Pemberton's Spider-Verse has recognisable themes for the Prowler (sound designy synth burst - very short) and Spiderman himself, which is set to the rhythm of the words 'Spider Man' - plus an octave-jump theme which is more of a 'Miles destiny' motif.


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## Sears Poncho (Oct 31, 2019)

DivingInSpace said:


> Laura's theme


Isn't that from Dr. Zhivago? Oh wait, that's Lara's theme.  

Halloween- Laurie Strode.


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## DivingInSpace (Oct 31, 2019)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> Signs is a great score
> 
> Do you mean motifs? Rather than motives?


I do indeed mean motifs/leitmotifs, as mentioned in the post itself. I will edit the title, it is hard dribling between three different languages and what is translations and what is not haha. Thanks for the recommendations!


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## DivingInSpace (Oct 31, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> Isn't that from Dr. Zhivago? Oh wait, that's Lara's theme.
> 
> Halloween- Laurie Strode.


Woops, you are right!

This does remind me that Laura Palmer's theme from Twin Peaks could be a nice one too!


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## Sears Poncho (Oct 31, 2019)

DivingInSpace said:


> Woops, you are right!
> 
> This does remind me that Laura Palmer's theme from Twin Peaks could be a nice one too!


Well if you're doing TV, Barney Fife's "lawman theme" is my favorite.


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## Fry777 (Oct 31, 2019)

DivingInSpace said:


> Holy shit, that's so good! I never actually watched the movie, but that's a huge amount of great themes. Has some of them already been established earlier in the movie?



Yes, all throughout the movie...

The movie is what it is, but the score is pure gold. I was lucky enough to see James Newton Howard conducting Hand of Fate part 1 and 2 live, it was amazing !


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## Richard Wilkinson (Oct 31, 2019)

DivingInSpace said:


> I do indeed mean motifs/leitmotifs, as mentioned in the post itself. I will edit the title, it is hard dribling between three different languages and what is translations and what is not haha. Thanks for the recommendations!



Big respect for anyone who can speak multiple languages fluently - no disrespect intended from me, just to be clear. 

Just thought - no-one's mentioned it yet, but the obvious non-JW film would be Lord Of The Rings. Very operatic and chock-full of themes and motifs.


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## DivingInSpace (Oct 31, 2019)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> Big respect for anyone who can speak multiple languages fluently - no disrespect intended from me, just to be clear.
> 
> Just thought - no-one's mentioned it yet, but the obvious non-JW film would be Lord Of The Rings. Very operatic and chock-full of themes and motifs.


Don't worry, i didn't find it disrespectful in any way. I do mention Howard Shore as one of the usual ones in the original post, and will most likely be using the shire theme as an example of music used to describe thoughts and feelings that picture and dialogue alone can't! Let's be honest, i could probably easily do a whole class centered around that soundtrack haha


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## BenG (Oct 31, 2019)

Another great, similar video!


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## Saxer (Oct 31, 2019)

Nothing better than Star Wars for teaching Leitmotiv


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## Farkle (Oct 31, 2019)

Get some golden age stuff in there. Laura's theme (Raskin) was already mentioned. Also, theme from "Sunset Boulevard", the Psycho theme (there are two, but everyone just thinks of the shrieking strings, but there are two in the main theme that are much more subtle and interesting).

Also, Korngold! Sea Hawk, King's Row (Use that to show Johnny's Star Wars influence), and Robin Hood.

OH, grab Michael Kamen; he's one of the best at taking a rock song written for a film, and incorporating it into the score as a lietmotif. Highlander and Robin Hood come to mind.

Mike


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## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 31, 2019)

DivingInSpace said:


> Of cause something that High School students have a chance of having heard before, but something that goes outside the usual Williams and Howard Shore ones.


Black Panther. People know it, it won the Oscar, themes are clear and easy to grasp, in part because of the different instrumentation and styles. I think it's a smart and well-done score too. One of the rare instances I actually agree with the Academy.


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## DivingInSpace (Nov 1, 2019)

Saxer said:


> Nothing better than Star Wars for teaching Leitmotiv


Well, obviously i can't not mention Star Wars, but after being to a film music concert recently, i realized how forgotten everyone else than Williams quickly becomes haha



BenG said:


> Another great, similar video!



YES! Totally forgot about that video, thanks a lot!


Farkle said:


> Get some golden age stuff in there. Laura's theme (Raskin) was already mentioned. Also, theme from "Sunset Boulevard", the Psycho theme (there are two, but everyone just thinks of the shrieking strings, but there are two in the main theme that are much more subtle and interesting).
> 
> Also, Korngold! Sea Hawk, King's Row (Use that to show Johnny's Star Wars influence), and Robin Hood.
> 
> ...


The point of getting some of the golden age in there might be a good one. Seems like i might have to end up doing two of these classes so i can get through a fraction of all the good stuff people mention here! I also considered looking into some of Steiners works to get all the way back, but i am not sure if anybody will recognize it.



Land of Missing Parts said:


> Black Panther. People know it, it won the Oscar, themes are clear and easy to grasp, in part because of the different instrumentation and styles. I think it's a smart and well-done score too. One of the rare instances I actually agree with the Academy.


While i did watch it in the cinema, i actually didn't pay much notice to the score, so i might have to rewatch it. Thanks for pointing that out!


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## Living Fossil (Nov 16, 2019)

Farkle said:


> Laura's theme (Raskin) was already mentioned.



The theme from "Laura" indeed is one of the finest uses of a Leitmotiv in film history. 
Maybe my personal favorite.
(it's also interesting to analyse in which keys it [re]appears throughout the movie)


Another famous Leitmotiv is the theme from "Lovestory"
The interesting thing here are the exact positions when it appears.


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## Gil (Nov 17, 2019)

Hello!
Very interesting topic, great answers already!
Here is a small contribution about Star Wars themes and leitmotis:
- Complete Catalogue of the Musical Themes of Star Wars: https://franklehman.com/starwars/
- A Field Guide to the Musical Leitmotifs of “Star Wars”: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/a-field-guide-to-the-musical-leitmotifs-of-star-wars
Hope that helps!


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## DivingInSpace (Nov 17, 2019)

Gil said:


> Hello!
> Very interesting topic, great answers already!
> Here is a small contribution about Star Wars themes and leitmotis:
> - Complete Catalogue of the Musical Themes of Star Wars: https://franklehman.com/starwars/
> ...


This seems interting! I already did the class, and everything went really well, + the students really seemed to engage in it, participated in the discussions and analyses and tried answering my questions, but hey, let's keep this going. Somebody else might stumble upon the thread in a similar situation, + it is a really interesting topic!


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