# Forum Traffic



## synthpunk (Jul 7, 2015)

Is overall list traffic down btw ? Not seeing as many replies to subjects. Also some of the big guns such as Charlie, Marius, and Rctec seem to be MIA ?


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 8, 2015)

Some people might have trouble to access the forum. Heard about problems; logging into the forum wasn't possbile for some people.

In my case it worked out; reset the password and I was done.
On the other hand, the bookmark in my browser led me to the "We'll go online soon" page, although the forum was already active. I looked at VI-C's Facebook page to find found out we're online again. Kinda confusing...


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## KEnK (Jul 8, 2015)

Personally I'm visiting much less and staying for shorter times-
I'm still finding V2 to be visually abrasive-
It's like staring at a bunch of blinking lights to me.
I can only do it for so long before I close the window.
I really don't enjoy all the "mouse over" stuff-
So I'm putting the mouse aside, and trying to use the scroll buttons,
but there are still needless annoying color changes.

I wish I could disabled all this movement.
It's just visual noise to me and makes for an annoying experience,
rather than a pleasurable one.

I'm trying to adapt, but the effect of V2 is that I'm here probably
only 25-30% as much as previously

k


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## CDNmusic (Jul 8, 2015)

I'm the opposite of Kenk, I'm finding this new forum and the latest color scheme much flatter than the initial 2.0 and easy to read. The page is for sure snapier than 1.0 and the overall functionality has greatly improved, love the search capabilities and new posts view.

To me a great success moving to 2.0, congrats to Adrian and Frederick for a job well done...and they are still working at it with a great attitude, admirable stuff.


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## KEnK (Jul 8, 2015)

maybe time for a survey?


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 8, 2015)

KEnK said:


> Personally I'm visiting much less and staying for shorter times-
> I'm still finding V2 to be visually abrasive-


If memory serves me right, KEnK was one of the few people who had real problems with the site.
It wasn't about whiny complaints regarding the design, but more like "my eyes aren't getting any younger".

I can understand that. A simple slim-line solution for people with those kind of problems would be awesome.


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## KEnK (Jul 8, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> If memory serves me right, KEnK was one of the few people who had real problems with the site.
> It wasn't about whiny complaints regarding the design, but more like "my eyes aren't getting any younger".
> 
> I can understand that. A simple slim-line solution for people with those kind of problems would be awesome.


I appreciate your bringing that up, but I do think there are more than a few people who find V2 visually "assaulting".
Look here: especially the last 3 posts.
http://vi-control.net/community/index.php?threads/forum-skin-not-applied-consistently.46335/

I do notice some continuing changes, but it still remains more than a little uncomfortable to view this forum.
Even finding and copying that thread title was a visual gauntlet to me.
It's not worth it.

p.s. for me, it's not a "design preference",
this forum actually physically hurts my eyes. 
It's a real struggle to visit now
k


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## creativeforge (Jul 8, 2015)

KEnK said:


> Personally I'm visiting much less and staying for shorter times-
> I'm still finding V2 to be visually abrasive-
> It's like staring at a bunch of blinking lights to me.
> I can only do it for so long before I close the window.
> ...



Thanks for your comments, KEnK, as you can see I have worked very hard to soften the abrasiveness, KEnK, and hope this new format has been helpful to you and many others. I'm trying to make things as soft as possible, without breaking the visual identity. There a tons of settings to go through, but we didn't want the site to stay closed until it's all finished, and frankly it was a mammoth task to bring it to where we could open it. I really needed to deal with it in the wild, with you guys using it and pointing to what needed to be changed or improved.

* HATE HATE HATE the mouse-over stuff with a passion, personally. *I've been trying to find ways to get rid of it, and have gotten some tips, which require to dive deep into the code. So this is on the agenda. 

As an end-user of virtual instruments myself, and recording software, I am however at a loss when it comes to hearing people being so annoyed at the other aspects. We work with much more complex and colorful software for hours on end, going from one proprietary interface to the next, diving into a number of levels to tweak things in fine details. 

I think this forum right now looks pretty good all things considered. I have received tons of criticism, from the very worst to the very kind and encouraging. Only ONE (1) person has stepped up to the plate to help. One. So besides the fact that I'm working for free all day to 'complete' the forum, give support as fast I can, and make it interestingly interactive and able to support expansion, I'm alone in it. With my own limitations and strengths, with a heart willing to carry this to the place where Frederick - and hopefully most of you - is happy.

It would speak greatly of those who come forward with criticisms if they framed them in a constructive and positive investment of their time, not blackmail us into making changes to the colors of the curtains through threats to leave, or remarks that they find the place disgusting to be in, beyond a limited length of time. 

Maybe there is something I don't understand in a highly competitive world - music composing for movies and media - that could explain this kind of reactions from certain individuals. I'm not bitter about it, I'm just opening this up to look at it honestly. 

I just want to encourage you (maybe clumsily) to not judge all this new work on the basis of its incompleteness, or based on what you consider - in your eyes and to your taste - to be its weakest points. I welcome those suggestions and am always receptive to them. I can't always implement them immediately, or maybe they are not really essential to the good functions of the forum. If money wasn't an issue, you'd have a number of other skins to choose from. But again, consider this: I am working all alone (save for the help of one other member with whom I interact almost daily to tweak some things).

Until I'm done ALL the little tweaks that have been requested or suggested by many, I don't consider 2.0 to be fully complete. But there will come a point where it will have to be said that it's complete. And that's not my call to make. We can obsess on little details sometimes, but is it worth throwing the towel on an online community you've been a member of for many years? What if you had discovered it in its present state years ago? 

I hope this is somewhat helpful to diffuse the negative tension you seem to carry regarding the state of things here today, KEnK. There is so much more coming to VI 2.0 in the future, and this new foundation will be able to carry it. 

I'm sure you sometimes have to work with pretty quirky people in the industry, some of whom dress funny or have strange habits. But in the end it's about the work, the team, the vision and the final product. And more: _I am willing to bet that if you ask most established composers what really counts for them in a team, often times relationships and the ability to adapt will come very high on the list of requirements._ 

I love this forum, I enjoy the buzzing of posts, the wide array of topics, the helpfulness, the frank discussions, the developers who get involved with end-users in discussing their products, musicians helping musicians. I first came here as one of those - musicians. Let's help one another?

Regards,

André


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## KEnK (Jul 8, 2015)

Well...

I've been chided, haven't I.
duly noted 

Andre-
I apologize if my speaking about the visual difficulty I'm having
seems ungrateful.

It is in fact a little frustrating to me to always be actually physically
uncomfortable when viewing this forum now.
I thought I was speaking about it in an appropriate manner,
but perhaps not.

I have seen others voice a similar preference for visual simplicity.
The OP was wondering why traffic is down.
My personal forum time is in fact much less than before.
I thought it was a reasonable response.

k


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## creativeforge (Jul 8, 2015)

KEnK said:


> Well...
> 
> I've been chided, haven't I.
> duly noted
> ...



Ah, no worries, mate, I've been really trying hard, I guess I receive this, plus the lower attendance as a sign of failure. It's critical we get people back, and I will be looking at completing a couple more skins. Plus the email server that's another story... Just don't give up on this place...

Cheers,

Andre


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 9, 2015)

Andre', I, and some others, have linked a few times now to sites using the same format that are more "plain Jane" but I have not seen you respond to them. Did I simply miss your response?

Less is more.


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## creativeforge (Jul 9, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> Andre', I, and some others, have linked a few times now to sites using the same format that are more "plain Jane" but I have not seen you respond to them. Did I simply miss your response?
> Less is more.



Hi Jay,

I'm sorry for not replying earlier, maybe I didn't have anything to say in response? I did look at a few of them yes, it is interesting to look at various ideas, although I didn't see anything different from most other boards I've seen over time. I personally find it "different" to be on a forum with little identifiable visual anchors. But I'm not a heavy forum user like many here. 

I imagine if EastWest released a brand new PLAY interface, long-time users would find it challenging to find what they usually accessed almost instinctively after years of use.

I can't speak for Frederick or course, but I doubt he'd want to have a non-nondescript skin as being the official one representing VI-Control. I've have been working on a more vanilla skin too as an option, though, and he agrees it would be a good idea. 

I'm trying to identify the main issues people have right now that haven't yet been addressed, without re-inventing the wheel with VI 2.0. Here are two I'm thinking of right now that I'm composing this:

Are the red buttons for the text editor too bright? 






Are the signature boxes too tall?






I'll be fixing the email issues with the help of Michael Ducharme today, hopefully THAT nightmare can end, and have a few other things to refine.

Thanks Jay! 

Regards,

Andre


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 9, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Hi Jay,
> 
> 
> I can't speak for Frederick or course, but I doubt he'd want to have a non-nondescript skin as being the official one representing VI-Control. I've have been working on a more vanilla skin too as an option, though, and he agrees it would be a good idea.
> ...



Form should follow function IMHO. Fred's perhaps desire to be "different" should be far less important that having it easy to view and navigate, as the LUG is.

As for your specific questions:
1. "Are the red buttons for the text editor too bright?" Yes
2. "Are the signature boxes too tall?" Yes.

And, is the text too large? Yes.

Are there too many colors and images? Yes.

IU don't mean to be critical of your efforts, just the end result.


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## creativeforge (Jul 9, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> As for your specific questions:
> 1. "Are the red buttons for the text editor too bright?" Yes
> 2. "Are the signature boxes too tall?" Yes.
> 
> ...



OK, I think I can dim that a bit and make them..... blue.

Too many colors and images: *withing the forum threads*, which are the most used areas basically, could you make a screenshot or describe what colors and what images you refer to?

Thanks!

Andre


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 9, 2015)

Agreed, not so much within the forum threads, There is is just a matter of everything being so large there is too much scrolling necessary, even on my 27" monitor at 2048 X 1152.


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## creativeforge (Jul 9, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> Agreed, not so much within the forum threads, There is is just a matter of everything being so large there is too much scrolling necessary, even on my 27" monitor at 2048 X 1152.



OK, so when you say "so large," you mean the fonts are, or the empty spaces, or...


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 9, 2015)

Look at the spacing and font size on the main page and then look here and you have your answers I think.


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## creativeforge (Jul 9, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> Look at the spacing and font size on the main page and then look here and you have your answers I think.



I can see a difference, at 100% (no zoom). But what do YOU see? What are you wanting to see happen?


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 9, 2015)

Exactly, too big a difference. Make it more like the front page IMHO.


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## creativeforge (Jul 9, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> Exactly, too big a difference. Make it more like the front page IMHO.



OK, so you prefer smaller fonts for the forum threads? Or are you concerned about consistency? I do find the front page harder to read personally, I have to zoom in to read comfortably.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 9, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> OK, so you prefer smaller fonts for the forum threads? Or are you concerned about consistency? I do find the front page harder to read personally, I have to zoom in to read comfortably.




Wow what resolution is your monitor set to? I am blind as a bat and I can read it easily.

And if you tell me you are doing this on a laptop screen I am going to hunt you down and smack you


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## Jaap (Jul 9, 2015)

In the beginning my first impression with the font size was also that it was too big, but actually after a while I really like it. Though I need to scroll a bit more, but it's actually more comfortable to read and less tiresome.


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## creativeforge (Jul 9, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> Wow what resolution is your monitor set to? I am blind as a bat and I can read it easily.
> 
> And if you tell me you are doing this on a laptop screen I am going to hunt you down and smack you



Jay, my monitor is set to 1920 X 1080, I have a 25in screen. Bigger than that I have to do too much left and right traveling with my eyes...

Here is a 100% screenshot. And no laptop...


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## Jetzer (Jul 9, 2015)

I think it would help if the forum/site would be full screen again. I do think the font is too large, but I think full screen would already help.


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## KEnK (Jul 9, 2015)

Andre-

I have my monitor resolution set differently-
uploading that random screenshot I pm'd you about


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## creativeforge (Jul 9, 2015)

OK, so if the screen was full width, you would not have the dark blue backgrounds and red flags so close to the text... I see what you mean now.

How about colors? is it took much to have different colors for main text and signature/controls area? Or is that helpful to visually have an anchor, a boundary? or wold you prefer only one color to rule them all? 

See below:


















Thanks for a very informative and constructive exchange!


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## Jetzer (Jul 9, 2015)

I think I would prefer the third, clean option. Imo a signature doesn't need emphasis. It is there when needed, like when I want to go to someones website. 

Maybe a thin line between text and signature, like _____ or something subtle like that. But I think for me, clean would be good enough.


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## Hannes_F (Jul 9, 2015)

Yes (what JH says).


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## mc_deli (Jul 9, 2015)

I was going to post my v2 feedback and it makes sense to add it here.

-colour boundaries are very good to have. But, in your example, the sig colour block also contains the post info and post actions. This doesn't help. Sig area is good. But convention is to have to the post info and actions clearly at the top of the post (and often in a colour block or defined area).
-overall i can handle the colours and images, just. The give an identity and i appreciate how much work you have put into the forum specific image headers
-my main gripe is the amount of dead space. I use the forum on iphone4s, ipad2 and 15"mbp. It is torture on the iphone due to the wasted space in the headers, the extraneous borders, and then the text indents. The duplicated elements (home icon etc) in the headers dont help. The amount of space given to the avatar doesnt help either. On a positive note, the sub forum post list is good on ipad. Again i think the use of space and font sizes could be much better for mobile.

Overall i switch between VI and GS. Chalk and cheese I know. The mobile exp on GS is much better IMHO, no frills but the right info is packed in. 

I was hoping for better mobile and search in VIv2. So I am half happy and the eternal optimist. Only you know how much mobile traffic is increasing on VI and its importance to advertisers


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 9, 2015)

JH said:


> I think I would prefer the third, clean option. Imo a signature doesn't need emphasis. It is there when needed, like when I want to go to someones website.
> 
> Maybe a thin line between text and signature, like _____ or something subtle like that. But I think for me, clean would be good enough.



Yes.


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## mverta (Jul 9, 2015)

It's really true, Andre - as I've said there are lots of people who are willing to help and have expertise in the field who can help retool the design into something more enjoyable. All you have to do is ask. While the site has many problems (and you betcha it's having an impact on attendance), they are fortunately easy to address without impacting core functionality. Probably.


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## ryanstrong (Jul 9, 2015)

mverta said:


> It's really true, Andre - as I've said there are lots of people who are willing to help and have expertise in the field who can help retool the design into something more enjoyable. All you have to do is ask. While the site has many problems (and you betcha it's having an impact on attendance), they are fortunately easy to address without impacting core functionality. Probably.



I personally visit the forum about half as much as I did since the redesign.

I'm with Mike, I don't mind helping out however right now I feel this project is in a state of... a lot of cooks in the kitchen without a design vision. Collaboration and outside opinion can work but not without a creative/art director.


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## creativeforge (Jul 9, 2015)

ryanstrong said:


> I personally visit the forum about half as much as I did since the redesign.
> 
> I'm with Mike, I don't mind helping out however right now I feel this project is in a state of... a lot of cooks in the kitchen without a design vision. Collaboration and outside opinion can work but not without a creative/art director.



Would love to have you on board, Ryan...


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## Blakus (Jul 9, 2015)

mverta said:


> All you have to do is ask.


You offering Mike? I know you have a good eye for this kinda stuff


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## mverta (Jul 10, 2015)

Yes, I've offered to help however I can. Ryan is right that it needs a design vision, and I would recommend an organized section/area to cull collaborative ideas from.


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## Øivind (Jul 10, 2015)

mverta said:


> Yes, I've offered to help however I can. Ryan is right that it needs a design vision, and I would recommend an organized section/area to cull collaborative ideas from.


+1


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## SymphonicSamples (Jul 10, 2015)

mverta said:


> While the site has many problems (and you betcha it's having an impact on attendance), they are fortunately easy to address without impacting core functionality.


Given we can't see the sites statistics as one could previously , (users online currently and total users per day and so on which I found useful ) I think Mike's on the money , and come on he's at "One with the Force" . All things said , hats off to all the hard work / time / effort and perseverance that's gone into the upgrade and look forward to it's final refinements .


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## Guffy (Jul 10, 2015)

I think people are just angry because their stars are gone :D


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