# Is trailer music a field too competitive?



## RAdu (Jan 3, 2019)

As someone like me still figuring out how to enter in this field,do you think the market is so saturated that sustainable income from it it's a privilege that only few can have?


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## KallumS (Jan 3, 2019)

It seems oversaturated and hyper competitive but there's nothing stopping you becoming one of the privileged few if you put in the hours and hard work.


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## gsilbers (Jan 3, 2019)

music in general is that way.


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## Crowe (Jan 3, 2019)

All Art and Entertainment fields (basically everything I have actual passion for) are 'over-saturated'.

So yeah, only a privileged few will be able to make a living from it.

It usually comes down to talent and hard work. If you have the talent and put in the work, you have a shot. It's up to you to decide whether the chance to make it is worth it to you.

Personally, I will never stop again. Giving up was the dumbest thing I've ever done.


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## will_m (Jan 3, 2019)

RAdu said:


> As someone like me still figuring out how to enter in this field,do you think the market is so saturated that sustainable income from it it's a privilege that only few can have?



If you want it to be your sole income then yes but many people working in trailers have other areas, whether it be t.v libraries, commercials, film etc.

I think currently two of the biggest barriers to entry in the field are one, the level of production chops needed and two, the time it takes to go from start-up to having money come in.

I've found it one of the riskiest areas to work in but one of the most rewarding too.


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## Akarin (Jan 3, 2019)

High risk, high income. I see that most of the successful trailer composers out there dabble with TV work.


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## Chr!s (Jan 3, 2019)

KallumS said:


> It seems oversaturated and hyper competitive but there's nothing stopping you becoming one of the privileged few if you put in the hours and hard work.



I disagree.

Luck can stop you. 

Fate has a habit of getting in the way in just about everything one does.


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## stonzthro (Jan 3, 2019)

<Warning - this might hurt a little> 
If you are asking this question, then yes, it probably is - that also goes for any other career you may be asking this same question about. What career path in music, film, games, etc... is NOT oversaturated? The real question you need to ask yourself is do you have the stomach to throw yourself into 'X' career without any sort of forum-member-quasi-guarantee? 

As for whether you should dive in, only you can answer this question. I tend to agree with Chr!s in that fate does seem to have a hand, but that same fate will open YOUR path once you put your head down and start to work. 

Unless of course you can't get past this question... (though I'm sure you can).


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jan 3, 2019)

I find it interesting we speak like this as if opening a cafe or pizza joint is easy peasy lets make $$$$$$.

Anything worth doing has a butt load of people trying to do it.

Just do what ever you want m8, it's not like you can try again next life.


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## ProfoundSilence (Jan 3, 2019)

Akarin said:


> High risk, high income. I see that most of the successful trailer composers out there dabble with TV work.



I can't help but feel like you meant to say "high risk, some income"

in the business world, composers work for peanuts. Factor in William's 60 years of composing an insane catalogue and he's worth less than life time politicians XD

Williams, someone irreplaceable - defining, and prolific. 

Zimmer was in a pop band when he started iirc, and even though he (despite what he might say) seems to be much more adept at the business side of things.

to give you a point of reference;

Ramin Djawabi has a networth of 5 million
Maisie Williams(who is barely of age) had her first gig(atleast according to imdb) with game of thrones, and is already worth more than Djawabi. 
Sophie Turner, also 5 mill
Kit Harrington is already 12 million. 


And not only is ramin a huuuuuge part of the magic of the series(starwars without music anyone?) but his talent is actually rare, compared to actors and actresses, some of which can't even act to save their life. 



might as well mumble about pills over beats, you'll get double his net worth. 

sorry for the rant, but if you're looking to play high risk high reward, flipping stocks is a much better gig.


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## whiskers (Jan 3, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> All Art and Entertainment fields (basically everything I have actual passion for) are 'over-saturated'.
> 
> So yeah, only a privileged few will be able to make a living from it.
> 
> ...


And luck & connections, those never hurt too.


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## Chr!s (Jan 3, 2019)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I find it interesting we speak like this as if opening a cafe or pizza joint is easy peasy lets make $$$$$$.
> 
> Anything worth doing has a butt load of people trying to do it.
> 
> Just do what ever you want m8, it's not like you can try again next life.



I actually know people who own restaurants and pizza joint franchisees and there can be no question that your odds of success with a business venture like that is a lot higher simply because there is greater demand for it and the economic status quo makes it easy to open a crapton of food service sort of businesses just about anywhere. Look how many Starbucks locations there are.

The thing about careers in the arts is that there is no common entry point aside from nepotism, and meritocracy basically only applies to those who are already widely-known. As such, making your own opportunity is ostensibly impossible and you never know where, when or if opportunity may present itself. Unlike applying for jobs, opportunities in music generally only ever show up once.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 3, 2019)

If go into it without the notion of ever expecting a sustainable income, you will feel very satisfied when are awarded even the smallest gigs. The reality is, you will probably never become a "big time" trailer composer. However, it can be a sweet part-time job to fuel your passion of composing.


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## RAdu (Jan 3, 2019)

stonzthro said:


> <Warning - this might hurt a little>


yes it hurts a little  I should think more doing my own thing rather than look around


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## whiskers (Jan 3, 2019)

always think of this


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## kevthurman (Jan 4, 2019)

I think trailer music is something that is even harder than normal scoring to get into because the genre has already such an established sound and as a result musical creativity cannot give as much of an edge over others. Where a film score can work around a really low budget, trailer music generally requires a good up front investment because of all the electronic sounds and effects which are considered standard and completely necessary for anyone in the field.


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## Crowe (Jan 4, 2019)

kevthurman said:


> I think trailer music is something that is even harder than normal scoring to get into because the genre has already such an established sound and as a result musical creativity cannot give as much of an edge over others. Where a film score can work around a really low budget, trailer music generally requires a good up front investment because of all the electronic sounds and effects which are considered standard and completely necessary for anyone in the field.



Indeed. Honestly, doing trailer music as a career hadn't even really occurred to me considering where I live and what I like to make. Scoring stuff is much more my speed.

I have this idea in my head that there are about 50 people who make trailer music and all positions have already been filled. I mean. How many trailers are made in a year?


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## RAdu (Jan 4, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> I have this idea in my head that there are about 50 people who make trailer music and all positions have already been filled. I mean. How many trailers are made in a year?


Landing in a main trailer it's really hard even for top composers, tv spots have more odds since there are so many for every movie


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## MartinH. (Jan 4, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> I have this idea in my head that there are about 50 people who make trailer music and all positions have already been filled. I mean. How many trailers are made in a year?



I think of it in the way that for every one who enters an oversaturated creative niche job, there must be someone else being pushed out. Be it falling out of fashion because their content doesn't sound/look creative enough, or they are unavailable once due to health reasons and someone else gets asked to do it, or they're being undercut by some newcomer fresh out of college, or they had some personal differences with a client and get replaced because of that, or management changes and insists on only working with local people all of a sudden... things like that, much which isn't entirely under your control. And once you actually made it and work in your niche, you'll always ask yourself how long it's gonna last because there's no security at all that you'll stay there.


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## ghostnote (Jan 4, 2019)

RAdu said:


> As someone like me still figuring out how to enter in this field,do you think the market is so saturated that sustainable income from it it's a privilege that only few can have?


You're looking for an excuse, my friend. You have to ask the right questions.


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## Blakus (Jan 4, 2019)

Yes, it is insanely competitive. Although, this only motivates me even further to try and improve!


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## MoeWalsaad (Jan 4, 2019)

The whole world is over-saturated in most fields (especially entertainment - and online business) are over saturated.

This is not an obstacle if you think you have the skills, discipline, and willing to grow connections and try to roll the dice over and over.
I think success in this field will be more about the connection than technical craft skills.

I think nowadays you can find a decent free youtube trailer music courses, or courses in Udemy sold for 9.99$, Torrented and accessible by some ambitious kid from a poor village you never heard of in Africa, of course, the industry is over-saturated, there are no craft secrets anymore hidden from anyone.
and I don't mean poor kids have access to your craft learning resources is a bad thing at all, but what I'm trying to say the world is changing, and we live in interesting times thanks to the internet, whenever you think this is the next trend, it's already too late. so one needs to think way differently.
It's difficult I know! and we are in the boat together!
My hopes that a new political and economic systems to be created so we can all live together in the future!


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## Crowe (Jan 4, 2019)

Maybe this will help you.

To take my own observations an example:

I'm a software developer with a passion for art. I've been messing with Game Design for quite a while and I want to make my own scores to my writing and concepts. This is what drives me.

So, not only do I need to get myself up to snuff in the fields of Game- Design and Development, I also need to put in the hours to get to the level I want to be at in my other artistic endeavors. Needless to say I have help, because nobody can do all that alone.

But the most important part about all this is that the Video Game market is oversaturated like you wouldn't believe. With the advent of Unity, Unreal Engine and Godot as low-cost gateways into Gamedev, the market is littered with people's creations.

I've found that most of it is uninspired, unplayable or exploitative shite.

This gives me the drive to get better and to do as much as I can in my endeavor to make something that has meaning and something that people will enjoy. I *know* I can do better than a lot of what's out there. It's still a gamble, and probably somewhat unrealistic, but that's all that's needed. Whether I'm objectively any good or not is irrelevant and best left up to other people to decide.

When I listen to a lot of stock-music, I only rarely come across things that make me go 'Oh. This, i want to put on my music player'.

So the bottom line is this. Do you think, without an overinflated sense of self-importance and while shifting your ego to the side, that you can do better than 90% of the junk that's out there and make your work stand out? If so, eventually you'll only be up against the 10% that actually know what they're doing (and always keep in mind that you *will* belong to the 90% until you escape the clutches of mediocrity).

Do you think you have what it takes and the balls to go for it?

That's really all that matters.


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## RAdu (Jan 4, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> Do you think you have what it takes and the balls to go for it?


I don't know...but i'm working more than 12 hours a day to get there...I hope with time i will see the results. I agree that 90%(if not more) is junk out there and it's a hell of a ride to get out


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## Daryl (Jan 4, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> So the bottom line is this. Do you think, without an overinflated sense of self-importance and while shifting your ego to the side, that you can do better than 90% of the junk that's out there and make your work stand out? If so, eventually you'll only be up against the 10% that actually know what they're doing (and always keep in mind that you *will* belong to the 90% until you escape the clutches of mediocrity).



That's actually only part of it. You may also have to consider that many clients can't tell good from mediocre (and sometimes bad), or worse, they think their audience can't tell, or don't care, so even if you're "the best", with those clients you have no advantage over the rest of the world. You can only rely on getting regular work from the clients who do not fall into that category.


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## Crowe (Jan 4, 2019)

Daryl said:


> That's actually only part of it. You may also have to consider that many clients can't tell good from mediocre (and sometimes bad), or worse, they think their audience can't tell, or don't care, so even if you're "the best", with those clients you have no advantage over the rest of the world. You can only rely on getting regular work from the clients who do not fall into that category.



Hah. Ain't that the truth. I'd like to point at DragonQuest XI as a prime example of horrible music in big-budget productions.

Please note that I also did not touch upon marketing, which, depending on who you ask, may be even more important than all the things we've already mentioned.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Jan 4, 2019)

The thing that frustrates me is that I rarely see tracks I love get placements and often wonder why those that get placed were chosen... 
So, I can work as hard as I want produce tracks I think are bombshells... but that seems to have no bearing on whether it will be placed or not. 
So it's a weird thing. I find 80-90% of trailer tracks to be rather boring and executed somewhat poorly, so I hardly feel intimidated by quality mostly... but it looks like that has no relevance on placements anyway, so I could as well spent 3 hours on a track, do a somewhat decent job and land the next official theatrical Hollywood trailer. That's what bothers me. That's why I don't think about placements but just about producing music I'm proud of. Focusing on placements would irritate the hell out of me since I have no idea what the factors are (except basics like structure and trailerish instrumentation)... to my ears quality is hardly one of them (unless purely in terms of mixing).


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## Desire Inspires (Jan 4, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> The thing that frustrates me is that I rarely see tracks I love get placements and often wonder why those that get placed were chosen...
> So, I can work as hard as I want produce tracks I think are bombshells... but that seems to have no bearing on whether it will be placed or not.
> So it's a weird thing. I find 80-90% of trailer tracks to be rather boring and executed somewhat poorly, so I hardly feel intimidated by quality mostly... but it looks like that has no relevance on placements anyway, so I could as well spent 3 hours on a track, do a somewhat decent job and land the next official theatrical Hollywood trailer. That's what bothers me. That's why I don't think about placements but just about producing music I'm proud of. Focusing on placements would irritate the hell out of me since I have no idea what the factors are (except basics like structure and trailerish instrumentation)... to my ears quality is hardly one of them (unless purely in terms of mixing).



That’s the upside; just throw something together and get it out there. You have no control over the rest.


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## Daryl (Jan 4, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> I find 80-90% of trailer tracks to be rather boring and executed somewhat poorly, so I hardly feel intimidated by quality mostly... but it looks like that has no relevance on placements anyway, so I could as well spent 3 hours on a track, do a somewhat decent job and land the next official theatrical Hollywood trailer.


Rather than focusing on how good or bad musically the tracks are, you need to figure out why they got the placement. Other than nepotism, at the top end of trailer scoring there is always a reason why one track is preferred over another. It often has nothing to do with quality of composition. If being a good composer is your primary focus, forget writing for media. This is a business, and whilst writing good music can be part of being successful, writing good music for picture is not the same thing as writing good music. It can be, but they are not the same thing.


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## Akarin (Jan 4, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I can't help but feel like you meant to say "high risk, some income".



No. I meant "high". 40k for a placement of 3 mins of music is most likely considered high.


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## averystemmler (Jan 4, 2019)

Trading musical skill for your living is in every way ill advised, and has been since the dawn of civilization. But we're doing it anyways, so what's one more bad decision? 

In general though, I would suggest putting yourself in your client/customer's shoes. Pretend you have a trailer that needs a'scorin and see what the offerings are. Unfortunately, I think you'll find yourself Scrooge McDucking through enough epic music to fill trailers for generations. Or until the style changes.

Take a special note of what you can't find too. "Man, I really need to release this romantic sheep-centric dark comedy, but there is no music out there with enough farm animal noises for my trailer."

You never know when opportunity will strike.


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## whiskers (Jan 4, 2019)

averystemmler said:


> Trading musical skill for your living is in every way ill advised, and has been since the dawn of civilization. But we're doing it anyways, so what's one more bad decision?
> 
> In general though, I would suggest putting yourself in your client/customer's shoes. Pretend you have a trailer that needs a'scorin and see what the offerings are. Unfortunately, I think you'll find yourself Scrooge McDucking through enough epic music to fill trailers for generations. Or until the style changes.
> 
> ...


don't a lot of the trailer music tracks go into libraries for licensing too? Seems like a lot of reuse of trailer tracks (not a ton of variety in that type of music). Which is not bad for the person getting the license fee, but that's less room for a newcomer, as not every trailer needs a fresh score, right?


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## MartinH. (Jan 4, 2019)

DarkestShadow said:


> So it's a weird thing. I find 80-90% of trailer tracks to be rather boring and executed somewhat poorly, so I hardly feel intimidated by quality mostly... but it looks like that has no relevance on placements anyway, so I could as well spent 3 hours on a track, do a somewhat decent job and land the next official theatrical Hollywood trailer. That's what bothers me.



You're giving noobs like me hope


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## Fab (Jan 4, 2019)

Every desirable field of work is over saturated. There are too many artists. What we need are soldiers.


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## Crowe (Jan 4, 2019)

Fab said:


> Every desirable field of work is over saturated. There are too many artists. What we need are soldiers.



Because we need more war, as periods of prolonged conflict increases the desire for quality entertainment.

You sir, are a genius.

EDIT: And very much in tune with your avatar.


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## Vivaldi (Jan 4, 2019)

Fab said:


> Every desirable field of work is over saturated. There are too many artists. What we need are soldiers.


yea you're right we are too many...let's kill each oder


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## gregh (Jan 4, 2019)

Fab said:


> Every desirable field of work is over saturated. There are too many artists. What we need are soldiers.


start writing martial music - although that is saturated too


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## Desire Inspires (Jan 4, 2019)

gregh said:


> start writing martial music - although that is saturated too



I like to write Marital music myself.


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## paularthur (Jan 4, 2019)

For every 10 trailers i see there's usually one that has a Two Steps From Hell track from like 5-10 years ago and 2-3 that have the same hot track from the year of the reveal. It's a consistency game, takes a lot of patience.


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## gregh (Jan 4, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> I like to write Marital music myself.


imagining my best Barry White to that one


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## JohnG (Jan 4, 2019)

MoeWalsaad said:


> there are no craft secrets anymore hidden from anyone



?

How do you reach that conclusion? Maybe if you're willing to sit through 10,000 hours of Youtube "how to" videos and sort the good advice from the bad, you could argue that "craft" is all discoverable, but it's sorting out what's useful from what's not that separates good music from bad.

Based on what I hear broadcast, fine craft certainly has eluded some people who nevertheless are successful enough to get hired.


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## JohnG (Jan 4, 2019)

Every time I see a thread on trailer music, I read posts that dismiss it, saying it's "all the same," or "just loud," or "more of that bad old epic stuff."

But isn't that a bit like saying, "I hate dance music. It's full of those drums and fast tempos and guitars and synths and stuff!" Or, "I hate love songs. It's always about some girl or some guy and some love crap." Yes, there are lots of feeble songs that try to be dance numbers or love ballads, but some of them are good, and those are often the ones that catch on.

Sometimes they're merely catchy, but that is part of music too.

I've written trailer music over the years and found the most success with pieces that I thought were "cool," for want of a better word. Pieces I liked myself, not attempts at imitating someone's past success. 

Is it all ground-breaking _avant-garde_? Nope. I've been to lots of _avant-garde_ concerts and I liked some of them, but they often take place in a room filled significantly with friends of the composers or performers. Perhaps by its nature, _avant-garde_ is just not a super-popular place. So therefore I wonder why trailer music in particular comes in for such negativity, _especially_ on a forum largely taken up with people who are, or would like to be, commercially successful (i.e. making money at music).

Trying to write in any popular genre and make it new enough but still recognisable -- still telling your audience what kind of experience they can expect from this or that film -- is not easy.


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## dannymc (Jan 5, 2019)

> So therefore I wonder why trailer music in particular comes in for such negativity, _especially_ on a forum largely taken up with people who are, or would like to be, commercially successful (i.e. making money at music).



probably because musically and harmonically trailer music is quite a simple and minimal musical art form and gives the illusion that is easy to make when in fact the complete opposite is the case. its a real achievement to be successful in the trailer music industry if you ask me. those guys have a serious grasp of the craft and years of experience. 

Danny


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## dgburns (Jan 5, 2019)

I strangely have no interest in trailer music. Have at it fellas. 

Always been interested in long form myself.


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## SillyMidOn (Jan 5, 2019)

Trailer composer here.

It is certainly true that the amount of composers wanting to break into the industry has increased a lot in the last two years or so. I hear this from libraries who have even more people reaching out to them to get an "in" than they did 2 years ago. Word has got round that this is a career to make money with, so we might be approaching the apex of the "pork cycle".

The same is also true for the amount of trailer libraries popping up. I can't actually keep up with it, and a music supervisor friend and myself have a good head-scratch about this every time we talk (and compare notes on which ones we notice that popped up and which ones have gone to the wall - this happens as well). It is also true that trailer houses, the ones that actually cut the trailers don't have gold-plated futures either, some suddenly do a lot less well than they used to, for whatever reasons, and the same goes for some composers, too. So like any industry it is in flux, but I can't help but get the feeling that a certain level of saturation has set in on several fronts.

In a way I feel the industry has an analogous fate to that of the sample library world, where in the last year in particular we seem to have reached a nadir, where we have gone from a scenario ten years or so ago where you had to pay an arm a and a leg for EWQLSO, to now being bombarded with new brass and other libraries every other month, and the most ridiculous reductions on sample libraries (even by libraries who said they wouldn't do reductions) being common place now. Similar situation: word has spread that you can make money with developing sample libraries, but the pot is only so big and if more people are sharing that pot more people with be earning, but less money per library, with a few at the top being ok.

So that doesn't mean that people should give up on their dream/hope/wish of being a trailer composer, it just means it is harder than it was 5 years, and even harder than when the industry was in its infancy, when big bucks could be made quickly (form what I heard, I wasn't there for the very beginning).

There is a whole other aspect to this on what one can charge these days and where that is heading, the impact of netflix, amazon prime et al and AI, but that's for a different discussion.


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## Desire Inspires (Feb 8, 2019)




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## Greg (Feb 8, 2019)

Placements are very random and it's a bit of an insiders game where relationships and business partnerships prevail. It's just too random and too much luck is involved to imagine making it a sole source of income without an ungodly amount of effort. 

I love TSFH's approach where their music isn't even crafted for trailers, it is just so damn powerful and well produced that editors have to have it. You can make a lot of money with that style of music outside of trailers too, if it's done well.

It definitely is oversaturated with typical epic music and various other trailer styles. Too many people just copy whatever the hottest formula is at the moment. A hand full of those tracks get placed and the rest die quietly on source audio. Whatever you do, don't do THAT. Spend your time trying to find a unique sound and bring something fresh to the table. There are hundreds of composers that plaster the market with generic trailer tracks. There is absolutely no way to compete if you join into that. If you come up with unique ideas that are undeniably awesome for trailers, you will get a placement or two eventually.

Or just rip off Evey Reborn from the V for Vendetta score in as many ways as possible and load up on errors and omissions insurance.


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## sleepingtiger (Feb 14, 2019)

JohnG said:


> I've written trailer music over the years and found the most success with pieces that I thought were "cool," for want of a better word. Pieces I liked myself, not attempts at imitating someone's past success.



This resonates with me. I backed into writing "trailer music" when I took a short break from writing other production music. I decided I needed a palette cleanser so I started making some fun sound design-y tracks from heavily manipulated field recordings. At a certain point it occurred to me that these might sound really good in a theater so I sent a link to a few of them to a top trailer library. They loved them and it became an album! It felt almost like an accident.

Since then I've done another similar album and a recent one that actually sounds more like something resembling what I think of when I think of trailer music. I still don't know the formulas though and I don't know that I want to know, at least for now.

Don't get me wrong, I have a huge respect and admiration for the skill and dedication it takes to be a trailer composer in the classic sense, I was just never trying to be that person so I appreciate that there might be a little space for someone like me who can have fun and go nuts within this framework while taking a more workman-like approach with other types of music. Will it pay off? I dunno. It already has as far as the experience goes. It does seem that maybe there's a hunger in that world for music that doesn't fit the norm.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Feb 14, 2019)

Greg said:


> Or just rip off Evey Reborn from the V for Vendetta score in as many ways as possible and load up on errors and omissions insurance.



That's pretty blatant


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2019)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> That's pretty blatant



Yeah and the entire comments section agrees. Yikes.


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## karelpsota (Feb 14, 2019)

Another factor is that trailer houses are *also competing*.

Let's say Warner Bros hires 5 trailers houses, each trailer houses makes 5 trailers with different music. That's 25 options for only 3 theatrical trailers.

Sometimes, my roommate and I, each have music in the editing stages, but only one will come out.

Sometimes I'm competing against myself because I made different customs with different publishers for the same trailer, but different trailer house.

Lastly, it's kind of ridiculous how much they rely on focus groups. Your music needs to vibe with teens haha


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## jbuhler (Feb 14, 2019)

karelpsota said:


> Lastly, it's kind of ridiculous how much they rely on focus groups. Your music needs to vibe with teens haha


Do you know how they do the focus testing these days? I've heard rumors of eye-tracking software and face analysis for intensity, interest, boredom, etc. but I don't know if that is just being tested or if it's out in the field.


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## GtrString (Feb 14, 2019)

Why not just do music, and work on the trailer part of your portfolio. If the work gets good, you can see if there is a catch.

Most musicians today have to hustle anyway, and puts together a 360 portfolio of income revenues. Trailers could be one for you, but a broad perspective is your friend.

Putting all your jettons in one slot is crazy gambling. Not a way to beat the house.


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## Ledwick (Feb 14, 2019)

Could I answer your question with a question... What is your definition of "too competitive"?

For example, high school, college, semipro and pro sports all have different levels of competitiveness and require different amounts of work. Some people might think college sports is too competitive, while others might not think that about professional sports. It all depends on what you consider too competitive and how much work is too much work.

Another metaphor (simile?) is being an actor. Some people might think it's an unattainable goal, yet from living in California I've met lots of actors who've made a good living from guest appearances on TV shows and commercials. Similarly, maybe it's more reasonable to try making money with trailer production related jobs, rather than counting on getting actual trailer placements... like teaching the skills required to make trailer tracks, for example, or collaborating with independent filmmakers, youtubers and videogame devs (tv and commercial vs film acting).


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## karelpsota (Feb 15, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Do you know how they do the focus testing these days? I've heard rumors of eye-tracking software and face analysis for intensity, interest, boredom, etc. but I don't know if that is just being tested or if it's out in the field.



Don't know either. Considering the money studios spend on marketing (which is often more than the movie's budget). I wouldn't be surprised if they have the tech.

edit: found this - it's actually crazier!

_"One example of this in action is the the use of neuromarketing to successfully predict the success of a film – based on nothing but the participant’s psychophysiological responses to the trailer. Both biometric measurements and electroencephalography (EEG) alone have proven to be effective in determining later profitability.

The creation of most Hollywood films is dependent on focus group approval, and if such measures were truly informative, it would appear to follow that few films would flop. The neuromarketing research shows that there is another way.

Another example is the measurement of web advert success using eye tracking. Participants were asked to look through websites which contained different forms of banner advertisements. It was found that images featuring faces were more commonly attended to, and more memorable, than other advertisements.

The study provided an actionable insight into how web-based banner advertisements can be improved to increase the interaction of potential customers. Such granular, specific, and verifiable results would be hard to come by with focus groups."
_​Source: https://imotions.com/blog/focus-groups/


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## jbuhler (Feb 15, 2019)

karelpsota said:


> Don't know either. Considering the money studios spend on marketing (which is often more than the movie's budget). I wouldn't be surprised if they have the tech.


I got to play with some of this tech offered by a company that claimed to do affective response evaluation for film trailers. Also I got to see the report generated by my response to some trailers. But I never was clear if the company was actually convincing studios to use their tech to evaluate and tweak trailers. They were understandably cagey about that side of things. 

I was a very difficult subject for the tech because evidently I do not move my facial muscles much when I watch trailers on computer.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Feb 16, 2019)

Off topic but...


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## dannymc (Feb 16, 2019)

sleepingtiger said:


> This resonates with me. I backed into writing "trailer music" when I took a short break from writing other production music. I decided I needed a palette cleanser so I started making some fun sound design-y tracks from heavily manipulated field recordings. At a certain point it occurred to me that these might sound really good in a theater so I sent a link to a few of them to a top trailer library. They loved them and it became an album! It felt almost like an accident.
> 
> Since then I've done another similar album and a recent one that actually sounds more like something resembling what I think of when I think of trailer music. I still don't know the formulas though and I don't know that I want to know, at least for now.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I have a huge respect and admiration for the skill and dedication it takes to be a trailer composer in the classic sense, I was just never trying to be that person so I appreciate that there might be a little space for someone like me who can have fun and go nuts within this framework while taking a more workman-like approach with other types of music. Will it pay off? I dunno. It already has as far as the experience goes. It does seem that maybe there's a hunger in that world for music that doesn't fit the norm.



there definitely is. if you can come with non generic tracks there is a place for you. they've heard it all before by now they are looking for that something different now i can tell you that. 

Danny


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## jonathanparham (Feb 16, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Do you know how they do the focus testing these days? I've heard rumors of eye-tracking software and face analysis for intensity, interest, boredom, etc. but I don't know if that is just being tested or if it's out in the field.


did a live sound gig for an Ad Agency that has a Kardashian and Ciarra as clients. The agency claims it exists and this was about five years ago.


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## Desire Inspires (Feb 16, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> So yeah, only a privileged few will be able to make a living from it.



That is difficult to hear.


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## whiskers (Feb 16, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> I got to play with some of this tech offered by a company that claimed to do affective response evaluation for film trailers. Also I got to see the report generated by my response to some trailers. But I never was clear if the company was actually convincing studios to use their tech to evaluate and tweak trailers. They were understandably cagey about that side of things.
> 
> I was a very difficult subject for the tech because evidently I do not move my facial muscles much when I watch trailers on computer.


Fascinating...


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## Tanuj Tiku (Feb 17, 2019)




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