# Orchestral Tools: Berlin Symphonic Strings—special offer for Berlin Strings owners (NEW update available)



## OrchestralTools (Dec 17, 2020)

Introducing Berlin Symphonic Strings: Large sections, advanced playability



*Crossgrade offer for Berlin Strings owners:*
If you own Berlin Strings, you qualify for a special crossgrade intro price of €299 (regular price €549).
Simply add your Berlin Strings serial number under 'Promotion' at checkout to access your special price!

*Berlin Symphonic Strings*
*Only €399*
+ VAT—offer ends Jan 3, 2021
(regular price €549 +VAT)

Berlin Symphonic Strings delivers rich, cinematic sound with large sections for creating vivid string arrangements. Introducing 3 innovative legato modes, Berlin Symphonic Strings sets a new standard for sampled orchestral strings. Captured in situ at the renowned Teldex Scoring Stage, this library extends the sonic possibilities of the Berlin Series while retaining its unparalleled, pristine character.

Find out more at: https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/collections/berlin-symphonic-strings

Let us know if you have any questions!

Best,

OT


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## AEF (Dec 17, 2020)

Is the crossgrade price ongoing? Or does it also end when the promotional price ends?


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## OrchestralTools (Dec 17, 2020)

AEF said:


> Is the crossgrade price ongoing? Or does it also end when the promotional price ends?



Hey AEF,

The crossgrade will still be available after Jan 3, but for a higher price. 

Let us know if you have any other questions.

Best,

OT


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

Walkthrough soon?

Would much like to hear individual articulations


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## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2020)

Are these new recordings?

Edit, I guess they are


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## OrchestralTools (Dec 17, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Walkthrough soon?
> 
> Would much like to hear individual articulations



Walkthrough is coming very soon, we also have some demo walkthroughs coming too! Keep your eyes peeled @ProfoundSilence 

Best,

OT


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## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)

@OrchestralTools ,

Thank You Very much for making *Berlin Symphonic Strings .  *

Also, for the nice discount offer for Berlin Strings owners. 

I always wished OT would develop a larger strings section library than what Berlin Strings offered, well.. You guys did it. I'm super happy, and excited about this. 

I'm also looking forward to have all of your Berlin Series libraries in SINE format, hopefully early 2021. Can't wait for using them in SINE. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

Now would be a good time to request a 3rd oboe, clarinet, bassoon recorded, aswell as a3 flutes/oboes/clarinets/bassoons to match the symphonic sections!


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## BenG (Dec 17, 2020)

Bravo @OrchestralTools and looking forward to the walkthroughs! Is it weird that I'm most looking forward to possibly a new, Benny Oschmann demo...?


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## Bman70 (Dec 17, 2020)

Now this is tempting, although the lack of human beings coughing and falling on their instruments makes it somewhat sterile  . But on a serious note, why are all the audio demos slow? I really didn't get any substantial taste of the short articulation or fast possibilities. Anyone early adopting and have some clips?


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## Beans (Dec 17, 2020)

BenG said:


> Is it weird that I'm most looking forward to possibly a new, Benny Oschmann demo...?



That's already up on the web site!


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## markleake (Dec 17, 2020)

Kinda what I was expecting from OT, but also dreading... now I have to work out if I have enough SSD space and somehow justify _another_ string library.


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## Drumdude2112 (Dec 17, 2020)

Oh MAN , i promised myself after Vista was released today this was the LAST string library (at least for a good while lol ) 
But i'm invested in the Berlin series Soooooo...guess i'll pony up lol


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## Hendrixon (Dec 17, 2020)

Oh mamma... I don't think OT got my letter


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## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2020)

markleake said:


> Kinda what I was expecting from OT, but also dreading... now I have to work out if I have enough SSD space and somehow justify _another_ string library.


This is kind of how I'm feeling. I finally got Berlin Strings And Brass and Percussion. Not sure if I really need it.

Okay, I don't _need_ it. Do I want it? That's really the question. Probably yes. Sigh. I keep saying I'm done buying.


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## Hendrixon (Dec 17, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> This is kind of how I'm feeling. I finally got Berlin Strings And Brass and Percussion. Not sure if I really need it.
> 
> Okay, I don't _need_ it. Do I want it? That's really the question. Probably yes. Sigh. I keep saying I'm done buying.



You done buying? lol
Lizzi you kill me


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## jamwerks (Dec 17, 2020)

Pretty cool. Love the idea. There will undoubtedly be lots of expansions with additional arts and bowing technics. Seems there's no vibrato control, or did I miss it? And seems they recorded the sustains with very little legato (less than CSS). At times there is too little vibrato (imo) and that can start to sound bad. The different legati sound great and very convincing on the different passages.

But overall a great library seemingly. No attack and release controls like VSL, but these (the hall) sound much better.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> You done buying? lol
> Lizzi you kill me


I know. I have more stuff than I can use. Though I do actually try to use all of it at some point.


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## ZeeCount (Dec 17, 2020)

jamwerks said:


> Seems there's no vibrato control, or did I miss it?



Vibrato control is under performance:








jamwerks said:


> No attack and release controls like VSL, but these (the hall) sound much better.



If you choose Env at the bottom right you can set attack and release envelopes


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## ZeeCount (Dec 17, 2020)

markleake said:


> Kinda what I was expecting from OT, but also dreading... now I have to work out if I have enough SSD space and somehow justify _another_ string library.



What I like about SINE is you can choose to download only certain mics. I'm only use close, tree and AB currently so it's only taking up 35 gb of hard drive space. Later on down the track I can download the other mics, make a custom mix for the ones I need and delete them again.


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## Everratic (Dec 17, 2020)

The Magic Show is my favorite demo. The trills, tremolo, and runs sound beautiful and totally realistic.


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## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> This is kind of how I'm feeling. I finally got Berlin Strings And Brass and Percussion. Not sure if I really need it.
> 
> Okay, I don't _need_ it. Do I want it? That's really the question. Probably yes. Sigh. I keep saying I'm done buying.


It does sound so big and pretty though.


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## ModalRealist (Dec 17, 2020)

Holy moly. This may be the strings library I've been waiting for.


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## markleake (Dec 17, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> This is kind of how I'm feeling. I finally got Berlin Strings And Brass and Percussion. Not sure if I really need it.
> 
> Okay, I don't _need_ it. Do I want it? That's really the question. Probably yes. Sigh. I keep saying I'm done buying.


Me too. You invest a bit, then you're hooked because you think, well, I may as well complete what I have. So you end you getting the series and really liking it, even though you don't _need_ it.

Then there's that awkward moment when they come along with more libraries that fit nicely in. And because you are already invested, it is hard to resist. Part of their evil plan I guess.


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

This actually has a lot of the strengths that I was looking at with some of the new libraries that came out, glad I waited - although I'm a tad worried about the 4x rr when it comes to ostinatos, or pulses.


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## Hendrixon (Dec 17, 2020)

ModalRealist said:


> Holy moly. This may be the strings library I've been waiting for.



You've waited for this?!
Not that its bad or anything, its just... you mean non of the other quadruple billion string libraries out there can deliver what you were looking for until this lib came along? really?


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

...


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 17, 2020)

it's awesome that I can put the pattern/runs legato on the marcato articulations!!

this is absolutely how I'll be using it, especially for more energetic melodies!


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## muziksculp (Dec 17, 2020)

@OrchestralTools ,

Hi,

A feature request for SINE : 

Would it be possible to add *Microtuning* feature to the SINE player via a future update ? 

That would be very cool.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 18, 2020)

Not sure who asked for Shorts examples - but here are the celli with me noodling some stuff in.


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 18, 2020)

It fit's JXL articulations like a glove.


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## Andreas Moisa (Dec 18, 2020)

Instabuy.


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## Penthagram (Dec 18, 2020)

I bought it yesterday. I only had time to play around a little with the violins. Need to download the rest. But so far. Short articulations sound fantastic to me. Pattern legato is great. One of the best things from the library to me. I think Orchestral tools have a very consistent quality standard. And you know what to expect in that regard when you buy one of their libraries. I have never been disappointed with their libraries. I might use some more than others but they are solid. I really like the sustains as well! If I have time I will post some stuff later. To be honest, we are in for a treat for this end of year, between vista, this and soon cinematic woodwinds :D I see lot's of posts about this has X articulations and this X and should cost more or less, or should have more control on This feature, or whatever. At the end, I think every developer do what it's under their vision, and I think we have a good bunch of options to make something that works for us. Ultimately if we don't do good music we cannot blame the libraries or the tech :D Also I've been just recently starting using SINE, and I like it a lot, so, Kudos to OT team!


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## dzilizzi (Dec 18, 2020)

Penthagram said:


> Ultimately if we don't do good music we cannot blame the libraries or the tech :D


What?!?!?!??

No, it's totally the libraries fault I can't make good music! My writing is perfect! My mom said so!


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## Pontus Rufelt (Dec 18, 2020)

@OrchestralTools can’t find any walkthrough?


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## OrchestralTools (Dec 18, 2020)

Pontus Rufelt said:


> @OrchestralTools can’t find any walkthrough?



Coming very soon Pontus Rufelt!


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## Casiquire (Dec 18, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> You've waited for this?!
> Not that its bad or anything, its just... you mean non of the other quadruple billion string libraries out there can deliver what you were looking for until this lib came along? really?


Sure. None of them were recorded with the same space and mics as the rest of the Berlin Series and very few of them have legato RR.

The snark around this library is something else lol!


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 18, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> Sure. None of them were recorded with the same space and mics as the rest of the Berlin Series and very few of them have legato RR.
> 
> The snark around this library is something else lol!



Honestly, removing as much kontakt from my workflow would be nice. Can't get the BBCSO player to play nice unfortunately - but load times for SINE and kontakt are night and day. Loading 20 gb worth of samples on sine players is a snap, but if I drop something like that with kontakt libraries in my DAW - that's easily a trip and a half to a gas station to get a snack.


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 18, 2020)

I did the unthinkable, Loaded up a bunch of legato - and a sustain, then played with both hands not using the mod wheel.

Really though - It's hard to write this way using my clunky non-pianist fingers, but I really enjoy the lushness of the library - even without using things like the modwheel at all(someone mail me a breath controller)

I do enjoy the un-intended legato transitions from playing out of range ect from some of the lower instruments haha... sometimes it sounds obviously wrong, other times it adds movement that I'd not thought of.


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## Bman70 (Dec 18, 2020)

Is this library more forgiving of less powerful computer systems than Berlin Strings? Per instance, would the RAM used be significantly less? I also often use ensemble patches instead of separate artics but not sure if Berlin has those.


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## Nils Neumann (Dec 18, 2020)

Bman70 said:


> Is this library more forgiving of less powerful computer systems than Berlin Strings? Per instance, would the RAM used be significantly less? I also often use ensemble patches instead of separate artics but not sure if Berlin has those.


Definitely uses less ram, and you don’t have to save resources by only using one mic position like in the old days. Just merge it to taste.
CPU load with Sine work phenomenal for me. But there are users who still have problems with Sine. Definitely less now compared with the launch of JXL Brass.


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## AEF (Dec 18, 2020)

SINE literally JUST crashed Logic (10.6.1) for me loading up the Celli (which are gorgeous and far superior to the Violins in this collection).

The Violins I legato is terribly bumpy, on all three types. The Celli and Violas are OUTSTANDING. 

The tone of the library is exquisite though, and it matches the original Berlin well.


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## Fry777 (Dec 18, 2020)

AEF said:


> The Violins I legato is terribly bumpy, on all three types. The Celli and Violas are OUTSTANDING.



What about Violins 2 ?


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## muziksculp (Dec 18, 2020)

Only *BSS* VLNS 1 Sustain-Legato (Exposed Test) :


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## holywilly (Dec 18, 2020)

Since OT developed its own SINE player and new licensing mechanism, is it possible to release demo patches include feature articulations for us to test drive? Or a 14 days evaluation period.


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## Peter Satera (Dec 18, 2020)

holywilly said:


> Since OT developed its own SINE player and new licensing mechanism, is it possible to release demo patches include feature articulations for us to test drive? Or a 14 days evaluation period.



Technically, I don't see why not, authorisation, download and player are all in a single place.


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 18, 2020)

holywilly said:


> Since OT developed its own SINE player and new licensing mechanism, is it possible to release demo patches include feature articulations for us to test drive? Or a 14 days evaluation period.



This might actually depend greatly on the fine print when it was recorded, either by recording in teldex or with the actual musicians even if it's technologically possible.


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## muziksculp (Dec 19, 2020)

@OrchestralTools ,

Waiting for the Walkthrough Videos, and maybe some more demos on Youtube.

*I would like to bring to your attention an important detail * :

Your Website's Audio Demo Players on the product pages seems to be quite heavy handed on the way it is compressing, and kind of taking a big bite out of the frequency spectrum of the audio demos. I'm sure the audio demos sound much, much better if played via Youtube. Maybe you can do something about this important detail, since I think your audio demos player is not reflecting the quality, and detail present in the original audio demos.

I think this will surely help you, and us better evaluate, and enjoy listening to the wonderful demos, and libraries you offer.

Thanks for Listening.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## PaulieDC (Dec 19, 2020)

There’s been some discussion about the SINE player and as a student in the freshman class of orchestration, I don’t know enough to have any complaints, I rather like it. When I open up KONTAKT, there’s so many little things that have to be clicked on and some of the icons could fit on a pencil eraser. I know it’s powerful and all that but coming into this at this late in the game I’m OK with the players that OT and SA are putting out. 1.X software never has everything we want but it will get there.

I know, I didn’t say anything that everybody else hasn’t thought of already. Thing is I have to go vacuum the living room and the dining room to help my wife out and I’m stalling so I’m writing pointless posts.


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## muziksculp (Dec 19, 2020)

Is there a Berlin Symphonic Strings User's Manual I can download ? 

I can't seem to find it if it exists.


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## jbuhler (Dec 19, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Is there a Berlin Symphonic Strings User's Manual I can download ?
> 
> I can't seem to find it if it exists.


I've been looking for this too.


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## Chungus (Dec 19, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Is there a Berlin Symphonic Strings User's Manual I can download ?
> 
> I can't seem to find it if it exists.


As far as I'm aware, OT doesn't have manuals on any of their libraries. They should really see about changing that, with how complex these are.


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## muziksculp (Dec 19, 2020)

Chungus said:


> As far as I'm aware, OT doesn't have manuals on any of their libraries. They should really see about changing that, with how complex these are.



I agree, and no walkthrough tutorials yet for BSS


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## muziksculp (Dec 19, 2020)

Since there is no user's manual, anyone here know what the *Legato Speed Zone 1 & Zone 2 * are all about. I see I can assign a different type of Legato under each Zone, but I'm not sure what that means as far as control of the two assigned types of Legato, does it mean playing speed will change the type of legato, and what dictates the threshold of switching between speeds for each Zone ?

Here is a pic of editing section I'm referring asking about here.

Note Speed Zone 1 Has Melodic Legato assigned to it, and Speed Zone 2 has Rapid Legato assigned to it.


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## AEF (Dec 19, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Since there is no user's manual, anyone here know what the *Legato Speed Zone 1 & Zone 2 * are all about. I see I can assign a different type of Legato under each Zone, but I'm not sure what that means as far as control of the two assigned types of Legato, does it mean playing speed will change the type of legato, and what dictates the threshold of switching between speeds for each Zone ?
> 
> Here is a pic of editing section I'm referring asking about here.
> 
> Note Speed Zone 1 Has Melodic Legato assigned to it, and Speed Zone 2 has Rapid Legato assigned to it.


yes speed determines which type. It’s adaptive. In Capsule you could actually see it highlight which type you were using (slurred, agile, runs).


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## Robin (Dec 19, 2020)

Did anyone try mic merge with it already?

I just tried twice to create one with all mics engaged on the first violins and after the merge process ran through, the new channel strip with the new mix popped up in the mixer but it didn't load any sounds. Within seconds it filled my entire ram and did "something" for about 5 minutes and then came back to life with error messages like "Unknown Exception" and "Parsing Error"

After relaunching Sine and trying to activate that new mix, it again fills the entire RAM within seconds but doesn't load anything.


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## muziksculp (Dec 19, 2020)

Robin said:


> Did anyone try mic merge with it already?
> 
> I just tried twice to create one with all mics engaged on the first violins and after the merge process ran through, the new channel strip with the new mix popped up in the mixer but it didn't load any sounds. Within seconds it filled my entire ram and did "something" for about 5 minutes and then came back to life with error messages like "Unknown Exception" and "Parsing Error"
> 
> After relaunching Sine and trying to activate that new mix, it again fills the entire RAM within seconds but doesn't load anything.



I tried the Mic Merge feature in SINE, using BSS Violins 2, and got an error after waiting for almost 15 minutes for it to complete the file merge process. No audio comes out of the new Custom Mix, and it even froze my DAW, had to quit the session. So, the merge feature is not usable at this time.

Hopefully OT can try to fix this issue, most likely a bug, and needs to be fixed via a SINE update.


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## Robin (Dec 19, 2020)

Yup that's the exact same behaviour I'm getting. Good to know it's not a problem on my end.


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## muziksculp (Dec 19, 2020)

Robin said:


> Yup that's the exact same behaviour I'm getting. Good to know it's not a problem on my end.



Hi @Robin ,

Yeah.. and Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I didn't bother trying it out, thinking it should work, now we know it doesn't. We should report it to OT Support.


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 19, 2020)

Try running sine stand alone outside of the DAW to create the mic mix

Wonder if it's a certain mic causing the issue, I'll have to give it a crack when I get home


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## jbuhler (Dec 19, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Try running sine stand alone outside of the DAW to create the mic mix
> 
> Wonder if it's a certain mic causing the issue, I'll have to give it a crack when I get home


I had a similar issue with mic merging Majestic Horn and reported it to OT about 10 days ago. In my case, the merged mics seem to work, but I get a similar error.





ETA: The merged mic was made in the standalone player.


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## muziksculp (Dec 19, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Try running sine stand alone outside of the DAW to create the mic mix
> 
> Wonder if it's a certain mic causing the issue, I'll have to give it a crack when I get home



Thanks for the tip. I will give it a try, but this issue needs to be fixed by OT. 

Did you try merging some mics when running SINE in your DAW ?


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## Beans (Dec 19, 2020)

I just had the same merge issue and reported it. I tried a few merges with BSS, same error.

I ran through two other SINE libraries and verified no problems merging elsewhere with quite a few mics.

With that said, the max artics for those was nine total, whereas BSS has more per instrument. I've never merged something so large, so I'm curious if that's a problem.


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## muziksculp (Dec 19, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Try running sine stand alone outside of the DAW to create the mic mix
> 
> Wonder if it's a certain mic causing the issue, I'll have to give it a crack when I get home



This was the first time I attempt to use the SINE player in Standalone mode. 

Tested, and it seems to be working fine in SINE-Standalone mode. Hopefully they can fix it when running as a Plug-in.


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## CT (Dec 19, 2020)

Somewhat off-topic, but did any of you try the Layers thing as a way to test SINE with your system before buying anything, and was it a good representation of what to expect?


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 19, 2020)

I had an error like once when I made a merge in my project so I just started doing it in standalone mode to reduce the number of moving parts. 

If that works for you, maybe it has something to do with the DAW not being able to correctly update the other instances of SINE loaded?


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## muziksculp (Dec 19, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> If that works for you, maybe it has something to do with the DAW not being able to correctly update the other instances of SINE loaded?



I will test Merging Mics when I only have one Instance of SINE, and see what happens.


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## Beans (Dec 19, 2020)

I just verified that the merge issue occurs for me when in standalone. I love SINE and Teldex, but golly I really need some RAM saved up with these merges.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 19, 2020)

Mike T said:


> Somewhat off-topic, but did any of you try the Layers thing as a way to test SINE with your system before buying anything, and was it a good representation of what to expect?


Yes and no. I did try layers but not until after I got a free Sine upgrade for one of my Kontakt libraries. It worked fine in standalone and crashed in Cubase and S1. That said, the latest update has been more stable. I'm having other issues, but I think that might be related to my USB hub, because it doesn't seem to be limited to Sine.


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## muziksculp (Dec 19, 2020)

OK. I tested merging multiple mics in SINE using BSS VLNS 1, when there is only one instance of SINE loaded in my DAW (S1Pro 5/Windows 10), it completes the merge process without any errors this time, but when I enable the new Mix, it freezes/crashes S1Pro 5. So, that's a no go for me.

This issue needs to be fixed by Orchestral Tools via a SINE update.

The Mic merging feature is so cool (if it worked), it can save a lot of RAM. Hopefully they can fix it soon. 

I'm also curious why does the Mic Merging process takes so long ? around 15 min. or maybe a bit longer.


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## Soundbed (Dec 19, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Not sure who asked for Shorts examples - but here are the celli with me noodling some stuff in.


More like this demo! I know the legato types are supposed to be the selling point but I want to make sure I get some spiccato and staccato before investing.


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## Soundbed (Dec 19, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Honestly, removing as much kontakt from my workflow would be nice. Can't get the BBCSO player to play nice unfortunately - but load times for SINE and kontakt are night and day. Loading 20 gb worth of samples on sine players is a snap, but if I drop something like that with kontakt libraries in my DAW - that's easily a trip and a half to a gas station to get a snack.


Interesting I have had the opposite experience. Kontakt loads large libraries without effort and SINE glitches and chokes. Eventually SINE works, I just need to wait a while and be patient.


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## Beans (Dec 19, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I'm also curious why does the Mic Merging process takes so long ? around 15 min. or maybe a bit longer.



To be fair, it's probably a heck of a lot of files to work through.


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 19, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I'm also curious why does the Mic Merging process takes so long ? around 15 min. or maybe a bit longer.


you're rendering a lot of samples and then also compressing them.


Imagine rendering a song with 7 tracks but it's also like hours long.


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## Soundlex (Dec 19, 2020)

It is just wrong, really, that the AAX people can't enjoy this...


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## dzilizzi (Dec 19, 2020)

Soundlex said:


> It is just wrong, really, that the AAX people can't enjoy this...


We can, but we have to use something like Vienna Ensemble or Patchwork.


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## OT_Tobias (Dec 23, 2020)

Hi folks,

thank you very much for your feedback on BSS!

The legato system is a completely new approach and we've used your feedback to fine-tune it.
You should see an update for all instruments in your MyLicenses. This greatly improves legato behaviour and also fixes a few small mapping issues.

Let us know how things go via our support email!

Please note that our support will be closed from Dec 24 to Jan 03. We'll be there for you again in 2021!

Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year 2021!

best

Tobias and the whole OT team


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## Chungus (Dec 23, 2020)

@*OT_Tobias *Will we be seeing the walkthrough video before Jan 3?


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## novaburst (Dec 23, 2020)

Great work OTs


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## ProfoundSilence (Dec 23, 2020)

OT_Tobias said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> thank you very much for your feedback on BSS!
> 
> ...


I've been missing you Tobias, haven't seen you post much lately - Good to see you're still alive haha was hoping the job didn't drive you completely mad.

I hope you enjoy your time home and get some music


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## Drumdude2112 (Dec 23, 2020)

Look foward to hearing reports from owners as to how much of a difference the update makes.
Gimme a reason to buy it lol 😂


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## Sovereign (Dec 23, 2020)

Installed the update. The playability/consistency of the violins is improved, though it's not nearly as good as it can or should be yet. I am still baffled that mapping errors/bugs like these persist. Violins first, cellos second.


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## AEF (Dec 23, 2020)

Violins I still far behind Celli with the update. Slightly less bumpy but still not fluid. Original BS Violins I legato feels better still.


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## jbuhler (Dec 23, 2020)

Sovereign said:


> Installed the update. The playability/consistency of the violins is improved, though it's not nearly as good as it can or should be yet. I am still baffled that mapping errors/bugs like these persist. Violins first, cellos second.


Are you reporting them to OT support?


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## Sovereign (Dec 23, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Are you reporting them to OT support?


These not yet, but I will, just to be sure.


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## jbuhler (Dec 23, 2020)

Sovereign said:


> These not yet, but I will, just to be sure.


I’ve sent them some myself this morning.


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## jbuhler (Dec 23, 2020)

AEF said:


> Violins I still far behind Celli with the update. Slightly less bumpy but still not fluid. Original BS Violins I legato feels better still.


I’ve always feel like I have to fight the BS violin I legato, tbh. I can get good results ultimately, but they never come easily.


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## novaburst (Dec 23, 2020)

AEF said:


> Violins I still far behind Celli



Not trying to be contrary for me the violins are my favourite, they have that zing especially in the mid to high range i just don't hear anything like that in regular library, OTs has done a great job here
I no this comment want tast well with many 
But I am being honest. 

Yes there are some quirks and noise bleeding through but those violins to me are my favourite as is the rest of the library, 

Of course none of the reviews to me done this library justice on utube its almost like he was just showing the library faults. 

Using the violins with the leader the two spots makes the violins rock, 

But it could be how I like them to sound 

There are two ways you can approach a new library, you can sit down and pick out all the faults and you will find many, or you can sit down and find all the good things about it again you will find many, it's really up to you. 

Of course bugs and improvements are welcome, 

Comparison to me is a waste of time you should know the uses that a library can bring to your work 

A new library is not there to replace your existing library it's there to enhance your creativity, if that makes sence

There are many uses I can find with this latest string addition from OTs in its current state, it is a well thought through library and I for one am loving it.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 23, 2020)

novaburst said:


> Not trying to be contrary for me the violins are my favourite, they have that zing especially in the mid to high range i just don't hear anything like that in regular library, OTs has done a great job here
> I no this comment want tast well with many
> But I am being honest.
> 
> ...


I also prefer the higher register of the violins in BBS to the lower register.


----------



## Kartus (Dec 23, 2020)




----------



## muziksculp (Dec 23, 2020)

I like the BSS violins, but I would love it if OT would add a *molto-vibrato* version via a future update to the library. 

This is what I feel is missing to make this library really shine. Adding a molto-vibrato to the violins I and II would be my #1 wish for this library. So useful for those expressive, emotional, romantic sweeping violin melodic lines. As is the violins are too static for my taste to be used for this type of applications, also some way of X-fading or controlling the Vibrato amount would be very welcome.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Dec 23, 2020)

Hey everyone,

We just released the Berlin Symphonic Strings walkthrough—thank you for your patience!

In this walkthrough, we explore the sound of Berlin Symphonic Strings' large sections and rich, cinematic sound. Plus, you can find out more about the three innovative legato modes—Melodic Legato, Pattern Legato, and Rapid Legato—that enhance the playability and realism for melodies, ostinatos, and fast runs.



Thank you for all your feedback on Berlin Symphonic Strings. If you haven't already, make sure to download the update (for all instruments) in your MyLicenses.

And as usual, if you come across any bugs please reach out to our support team at [email protected]. 
Please note: Due to the Christmas/New Year holidays, there may be a delay in answers from December 24 to Jan 3, 2021.

Happy holidays and a very happy new year!

Best,

OT


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 23, 2020)

Hi @OrchestralTools ,

Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to all of you at OT. 

Thanks for developing this wonderful sounding strings library. You guys ROCK ! 

It would be so great if you eventually add a Molto-Vibrato option for Vls 1 & Vls 2. Also continue to fix, and improve this library. BSS is a prescious gem, that needs a bit more polishing. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev (Dec 23, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I like the BSS violins, but I would love it if OT would add a *molto-vibrato* version via a future update to the library.
> 
> This is what I feel is missing to make this library really shine. Adding a molto-vibrato to the violins I and II would be my #1 wish for this library. So useful for those expressive, emotional, romantic sweeping violin melodic lines. As is the violins are too static for my taste to be used for this type of applications, also some way of X-fading or controlling the Vibrato amount would be very welcome.


I absolutely agree with you! Vibrato is very missing. Also, Marcato are not at all expressive and there is also no vibrato. On all sections.


----------



## Babe (Dec 23, 2020)

I went to my licenses and saw nothing pertaining to an update.


----------



## Sang O Lee (Jan 2, 2021)

Hi guys. Does anyone know if the sale ends right at midnight the 3rd, or 11:59 PM of the 3rd?
Also, is it in German time? OT support is on holiday break so I'm not able to hear a response from them currently..


----------



## Artemi (Jan 2, 2021)

Sang O Lee said:


> Hi guys. Does anyone know if the sale ends right at midnight the 3rd, or 11:59 PM of the 3rd?
> Also, is it in German time? OT support is on holiday break so I'm not able to hear a response from them currently..


don't know about the strings but
Voucher expires Jan 3, 2020 at 23:59 CEST

if that's helpful


----------



## MGdepp (Jan 2, 2021)

Artemi said:


> don't know about the strings but
> Voucher expires Jan 3, 2020 at 23:59 CEST
> 
> if that's helpful


The voucher is not applicable to deals. But you can get a free single instrument below 25€ with it!


----------



## OrchestralTools (Jan 5, 2021)

Happy New Year everyone! We're back behind our desks and normal service has resumed.

Thank you for all your feedback and to everyone who reached out to our support team over the holiday break–we greatly value your feedback. If you've emailed our support team during this time, rest assured we've received your mail and our support team will answer you shortly.

Regarding the Mic Merge errors some of you are seeing when using Berlin Symphonic Strings: We are aware of the issue and we will be working on a fix. Thank you to everyone who contacted our support team to report—this helps us identify and find fixes quicker.
If you come across any issues, or even if you have a feature request, please reach out to our support team at [email protected].

Best,

OT


----------



## muziksculp (Jan 5, 2021)

Hi @OrchestralTools ,

Happy New Year to all of you. Looking forward to see more updates to this wonderful sounding strings library.

Any plans to post more BSS Videos ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Kartus (Jan 13, 2021)

It think because the mic merging process crashed before it compressed the raw files down ~half size. So after this bug is fixed, newly created merged mics should be half size too. But just my unproofed approach to this question.


----------



## muziksculp (Jan 16, 2021)

Any news on the BSS Update ? 

Should we expect it soon ? 

Thanks.


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 16, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Any news on the BSS Update ?
> 
> Should we expect it soon ?
> 
> Thanks.


I'm guessing next week. Support told me about ten days ago it should appear either last week or next.


----------



## Guigzart (Jan 16, 2021)

*The Mandolorian theme - with Orchestral Tools' Berlin Symphonic Strings ONLY (in Reaper)*​


​


----------



## muziksculp (Jan 22, 2021)

OK, so the week is almost over. so far... No updates, and no feedback from OT.


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> OK, so the week is almost over. so far... No updates, and no feedback from OT.


Yes. It's weird. I wonder if they got more reports of bugs to squash and that delayed the release.... But it would be nice if they kept us informed!


----------



## OrchestralTools (Jan 28, 2021)

Hey everyone,

Thank you so much for all your feedback over the last few weeks; especially to everyone who reached out to our support team too—this really helps us keep across everything.

We're just finalizing and sorting some last few things before we can give you an ETA on a Berlin Symphonic Strings update. Rest assured, an update is coming. And we will let you know on when to expect it next week.

Thank you so much for your patience and understanding. 
And remember: If you come across any new issues, please reach out to our support team ([email protected])—it's a massive help.

Best,

OT


----------



## muziksculp (Jan 28, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Thank you so much for all your feedback over the last few weeks; especially to everyone who reached out to our support team too—this really helps us keep across everything.
> 
> ...


@OrchestralTools ,

Thank you very much for the feedbck about BSS update. I really appreciate your dedication, and extra efforts to improve, and perfect your wonderful sounding products. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Kevinside (Jan 28, 2021)

OT is such a great company...the total opposite to another one...


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 9, 2021)

I wonder if we will see the BSS update this week ?


----------



## jbuhler (Feb 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if we will see the BSS update this week ?


Me, too. Would love to have the mic merging fixed.


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 12, 2021)

So, No update this week. 

Maybe next week ?

I'm guessing they are super busy trying to get more OT-Berlin Libraries converted to SINE format. Which I'm really excited about, since I own a good number of their NI based Berlin libraries. But an Update for BSS sometime next week would be appreciated.


----------



## jbuhler (Feb 12, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> So, No update this week.
> 
> Maybe next week ?
> 
> I'm guessing they are super busy trying to get more OT-Berlin Libraries converted to SINE format. Which I'm really excited about, since I own a good number of their NI based Berlin libraries. But an Update for BSS sometime next week would be appreciated.


I'm thinking the mic merge functionality is proving much more difficult to fix than they figured. It's also possible they continued to receive reports of sample problems and programming errors and so the fix list grew unexpectedly after they announced the update.


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 16, 2021)




----------



## David Kudell (Feb 16, 2021)

muziksculp said:


>



Hmmm, I’m not so sure about this composer. 😉


----------



## Nils Neumann (Feb 16, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> Hmmm, I’m not so sure about this composer. 😉


Yeah, he had his share of controversy

nice piece btw!


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 16, 2021)

Still waiting for the BSS Update from OT.


----------



## David Kudell (Feb 16, 2021)

Nils Neumann said:


> Yeah, he had his share of controversy
> 
> nice piece btw!


Thanks Nils!


----------



## Manaberry (Feb 16, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> Hmmm, I’m not so sure about this composer. 😉


Why would you say that? That was a great track


----------



## A.Heppelmann (Feb 16, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> Hmmm, I’m not so sure about this composer. 😉


Awesome piece! I love the sound of this library alongside JXL Brass and BWWs


----------



## David Kudell (Feb 16, 2021)

A.Heppelmann said:


> Awesome piece! I love the sound of this library alongside JXL Brass and BWWs


Thanks!


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 16, 2021)

Playing F3 using SPOT 2 Mic of VLS 1 Sustain + Legato patch, Dynamics set in the 70's range. 

This is what I hear. Loud low-freq. thumps. Please OT-Fix this library. It sounds wonderful, but has some issues that need fixing. including the Mic Merge feature which is broken. 

Thanks. 

View attachment BSS F3 Spot 2 Mic Issue.mp3


----------



## Fry777 (Feb 17, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Still waiting for the BSS Update from OT.


*Speculation ON *

I'd bet it's coming very soon, a matter of days even.
The timing of this new video, and the fact that David is speaking in detail about mic merging one of the BSS legato patches in the YT comments, a feature that is broken for everybody else as far as I know, would seem to indicate he already has the updated version for his demo track...

*Speculation OFF *


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 17, 2021)

Fry777 said:


> *Speculation ON *
> 
> I'd bet it's coming very soon, a matter of days even.
> The timing of this new video, and the fact that David is speaking in detail about mic merging one of the BSS legato patches in the YT comments, a feature that is broken for everybody else as far as I know, would seem to indicate he already has the updated version for his demo track...
> ...


Thanks for noticing @David Kudell 's reply post on YT. So, I'm guessing they have the Mic Merge fixed, and possibly ironed our other bugs, and issues. Not sure if the thump sounds on E3, and F3 vlns 1 spot 2 mic was fixed. 

Here is what he wrote on the YT reply, QUOTE:

"_ For BSS, I created a custom mic mix of Spot 1 +3db, Tree 0db, AB -3db, and Outriggers -3db. I turned up the spot mic since I turned those other room mics up to keep the ratio of spot to room intact. The great thing about Sine player is the Mic Merge feature, so it took the legato patch from 2 GB instrument and made it only 500MB but still gives you the sound of all those mics.
Show less_ "


----------



## David Kudell (Feb 17, 2021)

I'm using a beta version of Sine and the mic merge issue is fixed in that, so I imagine once it's been fully tested it will be rolled out.


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 17, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> I'm using a beta version of Sine and the mic merge issue is fixed in that, so I imagine once it's been fully tested it will be rolled out.


OK. Thanks for the feedback. 

Did you enjoy using BSS ? what do you like most about it so far, compared to other String libraries ? 

Any thing about it you feel can be improved ?


----------



## Babe (Feb 17, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> I'm using a beta version of Sine and the mic merge issue is fixed in that, so I imagine once it's been fully tested it will be rolled out.


Any other improvements to Sine?


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 22, 2021)

Well... another week went by, with no updates to BSS. 

Hopefully the update will make us very happy, given the long wait. 

OH.. I'm dreaming that Berlin Strings, and its expansions are running in SINE.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Feb 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Well... another week went by, with no updates to BSS.
> 
> Hopefully the update will make us very happy, given the long wait.
> 
> OH.. I'm dreaming that Berlin Strings, and its expansions are running in SINE.


Should be interesting to see what else is in the beta, then if that's not the only thing.


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 22, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Should be interesting to see what else is in the beta, then if that's not the only thing.


I have a feeling the update will offer more than just a fix for the mic-merge feature, given the time its taking so far. But, it's just a guess. We shall know once it's released. I really don't mind to see a few very nice surprises from OT for BSS.


----------



## jbuhler (Feb 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I have a feeling the update will offer more than just a fix for the mic-merge feature, given the time its taking so far. But, it's just a guess. We shall know once it's released. I really don't mind to see a few very nice surprises from OT for BSS.


Given the time it’s taken, I think the mic merging proved a complicated fix, and maybe fixing it exposed other issues.


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 23, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Given the time it’s taken, I think the mic merging proved a complicated fix, and maybe fixing it exposed other issues.


Possible. But it will still be nice if the update offers more than just a fix for the mic-merge functionality.

Looking forward to the update.


----------



## jbuhler (Feb 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Possible. But it will still be nice if the update offers more than just a fix for the mic-merge functionality.
> 
> Looking forward to the update.


I'm sure they fixed the reported sample errors, at least the simple ones. I hope they made some more progress on the violin 1 legato too.


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 26, 2021)

Here goes another week, and no BSS update in sight.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Feb 27, 2021)

Hey everyone,

We're sorry the update is taking a little longer than expected—we're currently in the midst of testing the update for each instrument and we may need to fine-tune a few things here and there. The update will be coming soon, once we have a clearer idea on when to expect it, we will let you know.

Thank you all for your patience and have a great weekend.

OT


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Feb 27, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> We're sorry the update is taking a little longer than expected—we're currently in the midst of testing the update for each instrument and we may need to fine-tune a few things here and there. The update will be coming soon, once we have a clearer idea on when to expect it, we will let you know.
> 
> ...



Well that's interesting news... This implies some sort of under the hood change (to sine?)

Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 27, 2021)

Hi @OrchestralTools ,

Thanks for the updating about the upcoming BSS update. 

Hope you get all the issues fixed, including sample related thump sounds (I posted this above), and any other issues, and maybe give us some additional improvements/features in SINE to further enjoy using BSS, and your other SINE libraries. 

Happy Testing. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## jbuhler (Feb 27, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Well that's interesting news... This implies some sort of under the hood change (to sine?)
> 
> Thanks for the heads up!


It seems like fixing the mic merge issue will require a new version of Sine since the issue also affected other libraries (Majestic Horn is where I first encountered the issue). Not sure why it’s taking so long. Maybe the problem was trickier to resolve or they ultimately decided to do a fuller update of Sine or there was just more to fix on BSS. It still feels to me like they released BSS before they had originally intended and so they are still working on it in a way that’s not typical of OT instruments on release.


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 27, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> It still feels to me like they released BSS before they had originally intended and so they are still working on it in a way that’s not typical of OT instruments on release.


Yes, that's my feeling as well. I surely think BSS was rushed out of the door before it was thoroughly tested. Not the usual experience I have had with their Kontakt berlin series, they are pretty good at releasing very solid, and functional libraries on day 1. 

Hopefully OT will fix, and further improve, and possibly add more to BSS. I don't see why they can't do that in the future, since they are very capable of doing so, and don't rely on NI/Kontakt anymore.


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 10, 2021)

Still No Update !


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 10, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Still No Update !


Yes, we're coming up on two months overdue.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 10, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, we're coming up on two months overdue.


Do you think they were hanging out with the guys from EW and somehow got lost in time and space? (Not to be confused with at Time+Space)


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Do you think they were hanging out with the guys from EW and somehow got lost in time and space? (Not to be confused with at Time+Space)


You never know. Hoopus might be out before the BSS update.


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Do you think they were hanging out with the guys from EW and somehow got lost in time and space? (Not to be confused with at Time+Space)


At least OT got the library out. Folks tend to think it better when developers wait to get everything perfect. I tend to think that I'd have been 3 months now without this library if they'd waited for perfection, and I like the library so there would have been a real opportunity cost. I don't even mind that it's taken them a couple of months to fix. I do mind—or maybe worry—that I was told an update would likely be out "next week" back on January 8. It's hard to say if the original problem was more difficult to solve than they thought or if the update suffered from mission creep. Likely a bit of both. But I'm not really that upset because the library has proved very useable in its current state.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Mar 10, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> You never know. Hoopus might be out before the BSS update.


Maybe they'll do a collaborative event and release them simultaneously


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 12, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> We're sorry the update is taking a little longer than expected—we're currently in the midst of testing the update for each instrument and we may need to fine-tune a few things here and there. The update will be coming soon, once we have a clearer idea on when to expect it, we will let you know.
> 
> ...


Hi @OrchestralTools ,

We are patiently waiting for the update, and appreciate any feedback on the status of the library/update. 

It is March 12th, 2021. The library was released in Dec. 2020. So, it has been more than two months, and this library is still not where it should be in terms of functionality. 

I know you are doing your best to fix the issues, and maybe further improve, and enhance the library content if possible. 

Please delight us with some good news when you can, any progress ? etc. hearing from you on the forum is very helpful, and reassuring. 

I'm also very excited, and patiently waiting to see more of the Berlin Series libraries converted, and running in SINE.

Thanks, and Have a Great Weekend,
Muziksculp


----------



## OrchestralTools (Mar 12, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @OrchestralTools ,
> 
> We are patiently waiting for the update, and appreciate any feedback on the status of the library/update.
> 
> ...


Hey @muziksculp,

We're testing the last few things, so the update is coming _very_ soon! We want to release an update that works perfectly for everyone and to ensure this, testing the update takes time.
We know you've all been waiting for this update and we very much appreciate your patience these past months; rest assured we have had a dedicated team working on this update, and we're eager to send out a working update to you all too.

Thanks again for your patience everyone and have a great weekend.

Best,

OT


----------



## AEF (Mar 12, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey @muziksculp,
> 
> We're testing the last few things, so the update is coming _very_ soon! We want to release an update that works perfectly for everyone and to ensure this, testing the update takes time.
> We know you've all been waiting for this update and we very much appreciate your patience these past months; rest assured we have had a dedicated team working on this update, and we're eager to send out a working update to you all too.
> ...


any hints as to what the update includes?


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Mar 12, 2021)

AEF said:


> any hints as to what the update includes?


Updates I imagine


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 20, 2021)

Another week goes by, and no BSS update in sight.

@OrchestralTools ,

Sorry, but I'm beginning to lose confidence in your company. 

Soon, soon, soon, and nothing is happening. Very Sad, and disappointed.

If you are trying to test my patience, well congratulations, I have no more of that resource left. What are you guys doing ? really .. what's taking you so long to fix the issues ? I can't believe I'm even wasting my time typing this post.


----------



## Virtuoso (Mar 21, 2021)

If only they had been this 'thorough' with the initial release!

Either they didn't notice that headline features like Mic Mixing didn't work, or they didn't see it as a priority and released it anyway to bump their end of year sales figures. Either way that's pretty poor.


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 21, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> Either way that's pretty poor.


Yup !


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 21, 2021)

Hope to see them fix it ASAP. Enough waiting for three + months, and just getting their soon, soon, promises. Let's get serious OT. Very fed up of your promises.


----------



## Nimrod7 (Mar 21, 2021)

I am really sorry that you're experiencing this.

Just wanna say as someone involved in the software process (not for OT), things are not that straight forward most of the times. That's why most of the developers avoid giving dates.
QA can go over for long time, inconsistent behavior, or things that can't be replicated can be very very hard to get through.
Even for what it seems a relative small bug fix, can take multiple weeks to be released, no matter how strong the team behind it is.

Best,


----------



## X-Bassist (Mar 21, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> At least OT got the library out. Folks tend to think it better when developers wait to get everything perfect. I tend to think that I'd have been 3 months now without this library if they'd waited for perfection, and I like the library so there would have been a real opportunity cost. I don't even mind that it's taken them a couple of months to fix. I do mind—or maybe worry—that I was told an update would likely be out "next week" back on January 8. It's hard to say if the original problem was more difficult to solve than they thought or if the update suffered from mission creep. Likely a bit of both. But I'm not really that upset because the library has proved very useable in its current state.


The difference betwen OT and EW is this:

OT is trying to get BSS to work with zero glitches, it’s the german way. I think they are regretting releasing BSS to early (but they had an event lined up and wanted a surprise for it)... so I wouldn’t expect this to happen again with OT.

EW is most likely just trying to get HOOPUS to work. Once they realized the amount of samples they have to play and making it all work without it sounding like a giant organ (not in a good way). Or having crazy glitches that would kill the product after the first walkthrough.

These are wildly different companies.

I’m sorry you have to deal with this Muzik, but think of it as being patient for something that could be vastly improved, and have OT’s attention to detail. I would have jumped in except....

TBH I’m still waiting for Sine to impress me before I dive in. OT and Spitfire have to take these beyond simple sample players before it’s worth learning and incorporating into a templete (why did they leave Kontakt otherwise?) after all, they could change how they work many times over before they make them advantageous, so why would I take the time to learn it all?

Just a thought.


----------



## X-Bassist (Mar 21, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hope to see them fix it ASAP. Enough waiting for three + months, and just getting their soon, soon, promises. Let's get serious OT. Very fed up of your promises.


Totally understand. They may have a glitch that’s holding them up. These are the times I put the library away and focus on anything else as I wait.

Truth is with glitches you never know when the solution will come, or how complicated it may be to fix that library, and others. Perhaps it’s also a Sine thing and they are working both out. Either way “soon” may have been premature. I woukd like to see them take these libraries farther.


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 21, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> The difference betwen OT and EW is this:
> 
> OT is trying to get BSS to work with zero glitches, it’s the german way. I think they are regretting releasing BSS to early (but they had an event lined up and wanted a surprise for it)... so I wouldn’t expect this to happen again with OT.
> 
> ...


The thing is BSS mostly works really well since that first update. It still has a few issues—a couple of sample issues, the mic mixing not working, and the violin 1 legato still not being properly calibrated (imho), but not really more than most of OT’s stuff, almost all of it has quirks you need to learn to work with. The only real complaint I have with BSS is that they announced the second update and it’s now very much overdue (two months now). And in the days of Capsule they weren’t very good about updating the libraries. The Sine libraries seem somewhat better maintained in that respect. 

But in its current state BSS is very useable, and right now I’m finding it to be the best complement to AROOF, so I’m happy to have it rather than to be waiting for perfection before it’s released.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 21, 2021)

Right now, for me, it isn't working. BSS works in Sine standalone but when I load it into VEPro, samples don't load. I'm redownloading it to see if the problem might be sample related, but it is very frustrating because I can't find anything on using Sine with VE Pro other than some complaints it is not consistent. I will work with it a bit more before giving up. I'm having a similar issue with Century Strings not loading samples. I really thought I had VE Pro figured out and then these two things messed it up. 

Not overly happy with Sine


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Mar 21, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Right now, for me, it isn't working. BSS works in Sine standalone but when I load it into VEPro, samples don't load. I'm redownloading it to see if the problem might be sample related, but it is very frustrating because I can't find anything on using Sine with VE Pro other than some complaints it is not consistent. I will work with it a bit more before giving up. I'm having a similar issue with Century Strings not loading samples. I really thought I had VE Pro figured out and then these two things messed it up.
> 
> Not overly happy with Sine


Something fishy with VePro sounds more like the culprit, given both those libraries are different developers and samplers.


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 21, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Something fishy with VePro sounds more like the culprit, given both those libraries are different developers and samplers.


My libraries are all on my slave right now, so trouble shooting has been a bit of a pain lately. I'm about ready to plug in my Scarlett and some headphones just so I have audio without connecting to the DAW. It is hard to figure out where the problem is when dealing with so many layers and no audio ability. 

I'm redownloading because that's what OT troubleshooting recommends and because I think something is wrong with my Century Strings in that only the individual articulations nki's are showing up. It's strange and I can't find anything about opening multis. It is always open when they start the videos. I could be missing something. Truthfully, for the last couple weeks I've been dealing with back spasms, so my patience with troubleshooting has been minimal.


----------



## Fry777 (Mar 22, 2021)

I recently had to redownload the lib following the installation of a new SSD. To my surprise today I saw that there was an update available in SINE for BSS.
Is it the case for anybody else ? Or was I just missing the december update following the reinstall ? (I'm guessing SINE would directly provide the latest version if you redownload now, not the release version, right ?)


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2021)

Fry777 said:


> I recently had to redownload the lib following the installation of a new SSD. To my surprise today I saw that there was an update available in SINE for BSS.
> Is it the case for anybody else ? Or was I just missing the december update following the reinstall ? (I'm guessing SINE would directly provide the latest version if you redownload now, not the release version, right ?)


Wow ! Finally the *BSS* update is released. (Thanks for the heads up) 

Downloading it now.


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2021)

@OrchestralTools ,

Thanks for releasing the BSS update  

Downloading now, I wonder what's improved, and new in the update ? I will discover soon. 

Any documentation on what this update offers ? 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Fry777 (Mar 22, 2021)

Nice to see it is indeed the promised March update, I wasn't dreaming 

@OrchestralTools Could you release a changelog for this update please ?


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 22, 2021)

The violins 1 & 2 updated very quickly, but it seems like the viola is re-downloading the whole library.

I mean it's hard to say, because Sine doesn't give you a lot of information about what the download is doing, other than a progress bar. But the viola is now at 20 minutes of downloading, whereas the two violins took about 30 seconds to a minute each.


----------



## Fry777 (Mar 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> The violins 1 & 2 updated very quickly, but it seems like the viola is re-downloading the whole library.
> 
> I mean it's hard to say, because Sine doesn't give you a lot of information about what the download is doing, other than a progress bar. But the viola is now at 20 minutes of downloading, whereas the two violins took about 30 seconds to a minute each.


Ah weird, on my side the viola cello and basses took about 3 minutes each to download


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 22, 2021)

As for sound, the first violin legato still seems to be missing a bit of oomph in the second to highest dynamic layer, resulting in the feeling of a long plateau before the top layer kicks in. It's better than the previous version, I think, but on a first play through still a bit suboptimal, and the legato transition continues to be a bit too loud for my taste, so I have to turn that down a bit. Fortunately, it's a very tweakable library in that respect. With the previous version, I'd taken to using the soft sustains with legato in exposed passages because it gave a somewhat more even response crossing the dynamic layers. That still seems to be the case, but a bit less so. We'll see how I feel about it after playing with it for some time.

I won't test the mic merging until everything is done downloading.



Fry777 said:


> Ah weird, on my side the viola cello and basses took about 3 minutes each to download


For me, the viola is still downloading, and according to the progress bar is only half done.


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 22, 2021)

ka00 said:


> I'm turning off the ff layer as well. I find the legato volume should really be an attribute that can be assigned to a CC (if I it can be, I haven't figured out how) as at lower dynamics it feels fine the way it's set, but at higher dynamics, I feel like it could be louder. It would be nice to be able to automate it.


Rather than turning off the ff layer, I've been using the soft sustains.


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 22, 2021)

ka00 said:


> Ah, I see. They are lovely. I just found that turning off the top layer is in the melodic legato has exposed an inconsistently quiet legato transition when descending from G4 to F4. It's fine if the top layer is enabled.


Yeah, I was having odd legato issues when I tried disengaging layers. I never pursued it far enough to figure out exactly what was going on.

Cellos are also taking forever to download. Since some seem not to be having the issue, I'm a bit perplexed.


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 22, 2021)

Can someone check the viola legato, the highest D to the Bb a third below. This was an issue in the previous version, but on at least two notes. I'm still getting the issue but only on this one interval, like they only fixed one of the two intervals covered by this sample. My viola download also messed up in a strange way. (Sine crashed in the middle of the download, and when I restarted it, the viola said it was done, even though progress before that had only been halfway.)

ETA: well, they evidently didn't fix this at all, or if they did my download didn't take. The C#-A a half step below, is also exhibiting the issue.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Mar 22, 2021)

ka00 said:


> After updating, I just tried creating a mic merge. I got a preloading error. Failed to parse archive... std:exception.
> 
> After the failure message, the new mix isn't loading into RAM. It just looks stuck at some point and the RAM usage stays at 0.0 MB in Sine Player.
> 
> ...


To be fair they might not say the merging is fixed yet, might have just released some tweaks while they figure out why merging is not working as expected.


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 22, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> To be fair they might not say the merging is fixed yet, might have just released some tweaks while they figure out why merging is not working as expected.


It would help if OT provided a fix log, no?


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Mar 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> It would help if OT provided a fix log, no?


Yes, but it's possible they were working on it. 

Could have a.) Just tested the downloading is going smoothly/correct before announcing gates are open - or b.) It's an accident that it was pushed through. Or c.) They are being mysterious for style points


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 22, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Yes, but it's possible they were working on it.
> 
> Could have a.) Just tested the downloading is going smoothly/correct before announcing gates are open - or b.) It's an accident that it was pushed through. Or c.) They are being mysterious for style points


Maybe I'm misremembering, but I don't recall they told us what was in the first update either, so I vote for style points.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Mar 22, 2021)

ka00 said:


> That's true.
> 
> I don't know why, but when you wrote that, all of a sudden I had a mental flash to this post: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/refunds-on-sample-libraries.107221/
> 
> ...


Merging isnt a berlin symphonic strings thing, it's a feature of sine player(which is free). You purchased licenses to berlin symphonic strings which are downloadable and usable. The feature of sine isn't working yet with one library, cool your horses. 

They aren't going to just "oopsie" and give up on finding the snag with why merge is not working right with bss. I own almost everything released on sine and this was the first and only library that had problems with merging.


----------



## ka00 (Mar 22, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Merging isnt a berlin symphonic strings thing, it's a feature of sine player(which is free). You purchased licenses to berlin symphonic strings which are downloadable and usable. The feature of sine isn't working yet with one library, cool your horses.
> 
> They aren't going to just "oopsie" and give up on finding the snag with why merge is not working right with bss. I own almost everything released on sine and this was the first and only library that had problems with merging.


That's good to hear. I admit, I was being cheeky. Hence the "hehe". That's my notation for cheekiness.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Mar 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Maybe I'm misremembering, but I don't recall they told us what was in the first update either, so I vote for style points.


Maybe they are hard countering spitfire and instead of announcing a date to announce a library they are just going to release libraries silently and you'll only find them by clicking through the website. 

Imagine the salt if it's like a 1 day intro on pricing - if you happen to find the link that day


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 22, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Merging isnt a berlin symphonic strings thing, it's a feature of sine player(which is free). You purchased licenses to berlin symphonic strings which are downloadable and usable. The feature of sine isn't working yet with one library, cool your horses.
> 
> They aren't going to just "oopsie" and give up on finding the snag with why merge is not working right with bss. I own almost everything released on sine and this was the first and only library that had problems with merging.


I had the issue with Majestic Horn. Except the merge worked with Majestic Horn, it just keeps throwing up the dialogue box with the parsing error anytime i load the merged mic. With BSS I get the same dialogue box but no sound.


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 22, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Maybe they are hard countering spitfire and instead of announcing a date to announce a library they are just going to release libraries silently and you'll only find them by clicking through the website.
> 
> Imagine the salt if it's like a 1 day intro on pricing - if you happen to find the link that day


SF is also not good about delivering change logs for libraries in their player, so maybe it's a competition to see who can be most mysterious about updates for non-Kontakt libraries—give people another reason to complain about companies striking out with their own players.

Given the time this update took, it's odd the number of reported items that went unfixed. I mean, I like this library and am using it quite a lot, so I'm glad they brought it out sooner rather than later, but I now feel like we'll be living with this library's quirks for a long time.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Mar 22, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> SF is also not good about delivering change logs for libraries in their player, so maybe it's a competition to see who can be most mysterious about updates for non-Kontakt libraries—give people another reason to complain about companies striking out with their own players.
> 
> Given the time this update took, it's odd the number of reported items that went unfixed. I mean, I like this library and am using it quite a lot, so I'm glad they brought it out sooner rather than later, but I now feel like we'll be living with this library's quirks for a long time.


I suspect it's also reached the point where they have to juggle this and their other release schedule. 

After all, they did say this year berlin would get ported, which means they are also working on that(and probably still on schedule to release other libraries). 

Personally I plan on making a template for these when merging is working but I'm not in a rush. I'm just now finding the Spitfire BBC player stable enough to not crash my DAW after the last update so I'm experimenting with the BBC woods again - im probably too patient. (Spent the full price of 999 for just the woodwinds and then haven't been able to use them since lol)


----------



## Fry777 (Mar 22, 2021)

Mic merging is fixed in the next update of SINE, some people have a beta of this upcoming version.
But it's not linked to this BSS update technically (even though it would have been nice to have both at the same time)


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2021)

Fry777 said:


> Mic merging is fixed in the next update of SINE, some people have a beta of this.
> But it's not linked to this BSS update technically (even though it would have been nice to have both at the same time)


So, has this BSS update improved anything ?


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Mar 22, 2021)

Fry777 said:


> Mic merging is fixed in the next update of SINE, some people have a beta of this upcoming version.
> But it's not linked to this BSS update technically (even though it would have been nice to have both at the same time)


I dont know why that didn't occur to me, that might be possible too.


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2021)

Fry777 said:


> Mic merging is fixed in the next update of SINE, some people have a beta of this upcoming version.
> But it's not linked to this BSS update technically (even though it would have been nice to have both at the same time)


Interesting, and where are these people posting about the upcoming beta version ?


----------



## Evans (Mar 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Interesting, and where are these people posting about the upcoming beta version ?







__





Orchestral Tools: Berlin Symphonic Strings—special offer for Berlin Strings owners (NEW update available)


Awesome piece! I love the sound of this library alongside JXL Brass and BWWs Thanks!




vi-control.net


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2021)

Evans said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh..LOL, I remember this post. 

OK, so why isn't the merge fix included in this update ? and what is this update fixing, or improving if anything at all ?


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2021)

Hi @David Kudell ,

Do you have any info. on what the BSS update OT posted today offers ? 

Does it fix the Mic-Merge feature issue in BSS ? or is the beta-update you mentioned earlier on this thread not released yet ? 

Thanks. 
​


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 22, 2021)

Hey so are any of you using Sine with a VE Pro Slave machine? I can't get it to work. I've pretty much narrowed it down to needing to be connected to some kind of audio output. Basically, the samples are not loading into RAM, so I get nothing. I was trying BSS first, but when it didn't work and I started experimenting, it seemed none of the Sine instruments load. 

I do have an audio connection set through VE Pro. Did it the same way I did the Kontakt and Spitfire player libraries. Capsule also needed to be connected to audio to run, but worked once the VE Pro connection was set up. If anyone has figured it out, I would appreciate knowing the workaround. I emailed OT, but with this update just coming out, I think it might get lost in the mess. Thanks

Edit: Sine standalone works fine on the Slave using Windows Audio. I don't have a licensed DAW on my Slave.


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2021)

Hi,

I checked my *SINE* version number after installing today's update, and it shows *version 1.0.5 *

Anyone know if this is a new version, since I didn't check what the version number was before today's SINE update ? or was the update just for BSS content, and not for SINE ?


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Playing F3 using SPOT 2 Mic of VLS 1 Sustain + Legato patch, Dynamics set in the 70's range.
> 
> This is what I hear. Loud low-freq. thumps. Please OT-Fix this library. It sounds wonderful, but has some issues that need fixing. including the Mic Merge feature which is broken.
> 
> ...


OK, I tested this issue again after installing today's update.

Sadly, the update has not fixed it.


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I checked my *SINE* version number after installing today's update, and it shows *version 1.0.5 *
> 
> Anyone know if this is a new version, since I didn't check what the version number was before today's SINE update ? or was the update just for BSS content, and not for SINE ?


Sine is updated separately from the libraries. As far as I know 1.0.5 is the current version. I don’t expect mic merge to be fixed until the next update to Sine. 

The more I work with it, the less I’m convinced the update updated anything. Has anyone found anything the update has changed?


----------



## Virtuoso (Mar 22, 2021)

Yes - a glitch on viola octaves was fixed, but _no violist would ever play that anyway_, so the point is moot.


----------



## Alex Niedt (Mar 22, 2021)

There's a nice list of fixes (looking directly at the bug tracker), but you aren't all going to notice them unless you're going through and meticulously testing every note of every articulation and every legato interval in every instrument. There are legato transition fixes (many in the violas, which may contribute toward longer download times in that section), tuning fixes of certain round robins in short articulations, small timing edits, noise editing, and so on.


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 22, 2021)

Alex Niedt said:


> There's a nice list of fixes, but you aren't all going to notice them unless you're going through and meticulously testing every note of every articulation and every legato interval in every instrument. There are legato transition fixes (many in the violas, which may contribute toward longer download times in that section), tuning fixes of certain round robins in short articulations, small timing edits, noise editing, and so on.


Where is the change log?


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2021)

I think the big question is why OT doesn't have any documentation regarding what this update offers ?

Do they think this is the right way to release an update, with no info. about it ? 

Strange times we live in.


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 22, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Playing F3 using SPOT 2 Mic of VLS 1 Sustain + Legato patch, Dynamics set in the 70's range.
> 
> This is what I hear. Loud low-freq. thumps. Please OT-Fix this library. It sounds wonderful, but has some issues that need fixing. including the Mic Merge feature which is broken.
> 
> ...


I checked this issue after the update. Still not fixed.


----------



## Igorianych (Mar 23, 2021)

Unfortunately, I can't even download the update. Sinus is not responding or then gives an error


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 23, 2021)

Igorianych said:


> Sinus


'SINUS' ? That's a new name for their player


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 23, 2021)

Special Bows and First Chairs have been ported to Sine and are now available as a Sine bundle:





__





Berlin Character Strings


Special Bows 1 and 2 offer an alternative to traditional orchestral strings, with a range of evocative sounds from specialist playing techniques on first and second violins, violas, celli and bass. The First Chairs complement the Special Bows with an expertly-played string quintet, adding focus...




www.orchestraltools.com


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 23, 2021)

Hi,

Tobias from OT, posted this on another forum.

*Quote : *

" _Yes, there will be a SINE update in the future (which will also fix the mic merge issue).
This BSS update just contains a few sample fixes, nothing really earth-shattering_ "


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 23, 2021)

Wow ! 

Special Bows 1 & 2, and the Berlin First Chairs in SINE


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 23, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Special Bows and First Chairs have been ported to Sine and are now available as a Sine bundle:


Hah, my special bow libraries Kontakt license keys aren't being recognized by Sine as valid for conversion. Weird. I'm also wondering if there's going to be complete the bundle pricing for those who own the special bows but not the first chairs or vice versa.


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 23, 2021)

Now, I have to search for the original download codes of Special Bows 1 & 2, and First Chairs, and hope that they work.


----------



## Fry777 (Mar 23, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Hah, my special bow libraries Kontakt license keys aren't being recognized by Sine as valid for conversion. Weird. I'm also wondering if there's going to be complete the bundle pricing for those who own the special bows but not the first chairs or vice versa.


My continuata codes worked (I have both special bows). 

And yes you get a discount to complete your bundle... Any thoughts about the first chairs ?


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 23, 2021)

Looking forward to see OT *Berlin Strings* running in SINE


----------



## jbuhler (Mar 23, 2021)

Fry777 said:


> My continuata codes worked (I have both special bows).
> 
> And yes you get a discount to complete your bundle... Any thoughts about the first chairs ?


I bought through Native Instruments special in the fall, so I don't have a continuata code. Only the Kontakt license code.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Mar 23, 2021)

Hey everyone,

Some of you have caught on already, but we're pleased to announce a new update for Berlin Symphonic Strings is now available. To download the free update, just head to ‘My Licenses’ in SINE and click ‘Update’.

More info here in this step-by-step guide on updating in SINE: https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/320-downloading-updates

*What’s included:*
The update includes improved legato transitions, a fix for an odd fading issue with Rapid Legato patches, and various other fixes across all instruments.

Read the full changelog here:
https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/399-berlin-symphonic-strings-notes


We’re still working on the Mic Merge issue and hoping to release a fix with the next SINE Player update—we’ll keep you posted.

Thank you for all your feedback since the release of Berlin Symphonic Strings, especially to everyone who reached out to our support team—this really helps us keep on top of everything. If you come across any new issues, please reach out to our support team via email: [email protected].

As always, all feedback and questions are welcome. Have fun with the update!

Best,

OT


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 23, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> We’re still working on the Mic Merge issue and hoping to release a fix with the next SINE Player update—we’ll keep you posted.


Hi @OrchestralTools ,

Thanks for the update, and new SINE libraries. 

Will the next SINE update, besides the Merge fix, also fix some of the other issues with BSS i.e. noise in samples, and other improvements ?


----------



## X-Bassist (Mar 23, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Hey so are any of you using Sine with a VE Pro Slave machine? I can't get it to work. I've pretty much narrowed it down to needing to be connected to some kind of audio output. Basically, the samples are not loading into RAM, so I get nothing. I was trying BSS first, but when it didn't work and I started experimenting, it seemed none of the Sine instruments load.
> 
> I do have an audio connection set through VE Pro. Did it the same way I did the Kontakt and Spitfire player libraries. Capsule also needed to be connected to audio to run, but worked once the VE Pro connection was set up. If anyone has figured it out, I would appreciate knowing the workaround. I emailed OT, but with this update just coming out, I think it might get lost in the mess. Thanks
> 
> Edit: Sine standalone works fine on the Slave using Windows Audio. I don't have a licensed DAW on my Slave.


Since no one seems to have answers for you....

My first guess is to make sure you have the latest update for VEPro (I think there’s still a “look for updates” in the menu). VEPro has to recognize Sine when it boots and add it to it’s list properly. If either is an old version, it may not work.

Then check to make sure the channel on VEPro is set to the right output (usually the bus for that instance) at times I have opened VEPro and the output buss gets set to blank (nothing) and VEPro not only doesn’t make a sound, but shows no levels and acts like no samples are loaded.

Then check to see if a Sine update helps. Your DAW, VEPro, Komplete (if you use it), Sine, and the Sample library may all have to be updated and working properly for it to work. So check. Komplete should also be opened in stand alone after an update to make sure it scans for new plugins, including a new Sine update. All a PIA, but hopefully will get you back on track. 😊🙏


----------



## dzilizzi (Mar 23, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> Since no one seems to have answers for you....
> 
> My first guess is to make sure you have the latest update for VEPro (I think there’s still a “look for updates” in the menu). VEPro has to recognize Sine when it boots and add it to it’s list properly. If either is an old version, it may not work.
> 
> ...


I did update everything. I ended up shutting everything down and restarting it all. After connecting it all back together, it started working. OT got back to me and said they weren't having problems with it, but to check the connections. I'm guessing it might have been something in the VE Pro-Cubase connection didn't update the Sine player? I updated the player and restated VE Pro, but not Cubase. And when I restarted Cubase, I didn't restart VE Pro, just reconnected. I'm still trying to figure out this master-slave thing. Guy's tutorials were really helpful on it. 

And I haven't even tried Play yet.....


----------



## muziksculp (Mar 25, 2021)

Hi @OrchestralTools ,

You have a *Sordino emulation feature* available for the Strings Libraries in Kontakt. (i.e. Berlin Strings). 

But, It is not available in SINE.

Could you please consider adding this feature to SINE in the near future. It would really benefit BSS, and the other current String libraries, also Berlin Strings when it is released in SINE.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 5, 2021)

Hi @OrchestralTools ,

If it is not too much trouble for you, could you tell us if you will actually improve the Violins 1 & 2 Sections of BSS to have a more expressive, and emotional quality, in the way the Violinists have played the long notes, i.e. more vibrato, more passionately played sustains/legatos. 

The issue is that the current violin 1 & 2 sustains/legatos sound too static not only to my ears, but to many other BSS users. Especially when they are called for to play passionate, emotional violin melodies/phrases. 

Interestingly, the Violas, and Celli sections have a wonderful, and more emotional, and expressive character, and don't have that static quality that is present in the violin sections. 

I'm also guessing you have read user comments, including mine regarding this important detail. 

So, in short, It would be fantastic if you can inform us if you plan to improve the two violin sections in the future ? 

If you have no plans to improve the BSS Violin Sections, it will be helpful for us to know that it's not going to happen. 

Looking forward to the next SINE update, and your feedback regarding the Violin Sections remarks made here. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## tritonely (Apr 12, 2021)

How many GB of RAM would be every instrumentgroup with one mic position on? Asking due to my 16GB of RAM and in most videos it tips on 8+ GB with all patches and a few mic position


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 25, 2021)

Hi @OrchestralTools ,

Would it be too optimistic to hope that the SINE mic merge fix, and other improvements/fixes for BSS will be released along with your upcoming TALLINN library (which I already Pre-Ordered) on May 5th ? 

or would we have to wait longer for the SINE, and BSS updates ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

Hi @OrchestralTools ,

Can you give us any update on the status of SINE, and BSS issues ? 

Thanks.


----------



## muziksculp (May 19, 2021)

@OrchestralTools ,

Sorry to bother you, but it would be very appreciated if you can give us an update on the Status of SINE, and if you will also be updating BSS soon. I feel we need some input from you, since this it has been so long since it was expected to be released.

Thank You for your cooperation, and lovely libraries.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## bvaughn0402 (May 19, 2021)

I'm sure it is a huge undertaking, but I'm really quite surprised that BS hasn't been ported over yet. Hopefully they are close. I was shocked that the FX came out first.


----------



## Casiquire (May 19, 2021)

bvaughn0402 said:


> I'm sure it is a huge undertaking, but I'm really quite surprised that BS hasn't been ported over yet. Hopefully they are close. I was shocked that the FX came out first.


I'm actually waiting for that. I might try a single section first and see how i like it


----------



## Virtuoso (May 19, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> @OrchestralTools ,
> 
> Sorry to bother you, but it would be very appreciated if you can give us an update on the Status of SINE, and if you will also be updating BSS soon. I feel we need some input from you, since this it has been so long since it was expected to be released.
> 
> ...


6 months and a Day One broken feature that they are still advertising on the BSS page has yet to be fixed. No wonder they make you agree to the egregious terms renouncing your legal right to a refund! 






Buyer beware. They didn't test this properly. They didn't fix it promptly. And they don't stand by their product. I won't be buying from them again.


----------



## Jett Hitt (May 19, 2021)

bvaughn0402 said:


> I'm sure it is a huge undertaking, but I'm really quite surprised that BS hasn't been ported over yet. Hopefully they are close. I was shocked that the FX came out first.


FX? What FX?


----------



## muziksculp (May 19, 2021)

What really bothers me is the lack of reply, or at least some communication on this from OT, I posted more than once requesting some feedback from them, so far... Zippo.


----------



## Evans (May 19, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> What really bothers me is the lack of reply, or at least some communication on this from OT, I posted more than once requesting some feedback from them, so far... Zippo.


Are you only asking on a third party forum, or have you also recently used their contact form on the web site?


----------



## bvaughn0402 (May 19, 2021)

Jett Hitt said:


> FX? What FX?


Sorry I meant Special Bows not SFX.









Berlin Strings Special Bows 1


Berlin Strings Special Bows 1 is a dedicated collection of unconventional articulations and playing styles, performed on 8 first violins, 6 second violins, and 5 violas. From sul tasto’s subtle warmth to sul ponticello’s icy edge, these non-standard techniques can evoke singular moods and...




www.orchestraltools.com


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## Marlon Brown (May 30, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> What really bothers me is the lack of reply, or at least some communication on this from OT, I posted more than once requesting some feedback from them, so far... Zippo.


This is a forum. Go to their website and request that information.


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## muziksculp (May 30, 2021)

Well, they do visit the forum, but they just decided to ignore my posts.

I hope I'm not the only customer requesting this. I will email them about this issue. I wish other users of BSS will also email them.


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## jbuhler (May 30, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Well, they do visit the forum, but they just decided to ignore my posts.


OT only seems to monitor VI-C periodically. If you want to make sure OT sees your message, you need to work through support.


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## muziksculp (May 30, 2021)

Has anyone emailed OT Support about BSS issues, and SINE ?


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## jbuhler (May 30, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Has anyone emailed OT Support about BSS issues, and SINE ?


Early on, not recently. There are still things unfixed with BSS that I reported in the early days. But I love BSS, and it's now my go to big string library, so I'm finding it very usable. It would be nice to have mic merge, but that hasn't proved critical. If I had to guess, I'd say they likely still haven't been able to fix mic merge for BSS in some cases and are having difficulty figuring out why. Since they don't really have any news and they wouldn't really have a time table if they haven't been able to isolate the problem, we're in limbo. That's a wild guess but it fits the data, the silence, and the evidence that there is some sort of beta floating around with mic merge working.


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## Soundbed (May 30, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Has anyone emailed OT Support about BSS issues, and SINE ?


Yes, about Sine (not BSS specifically). They got back to me in a day or two.


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## muziksculp (May 30, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Yes, about Sine (not BSS specifically). They got back to me in a day or two.


Good to know. Thanks

I just emailed them. Let's see what they say.


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## muziksculp (May 30, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Early on, not recently. There are still things unfixed with BSS that I reported in the early days. But I love BSS, and it's now my go to big string library, so I'm finding it very usable. It would be nice to have mic merge, but that hasn't proved critical. If I had to guess, I'd say they likely still haven't been able to fix mic merge for BSS in some cases and are having difficulty figuring out why. Since they don't really have any news and they wouldn't really have a time table if they haven't been able to isolate the problem, we're in limbo. That's a wild guess but it fits the data, the silence, and the evidence that there is some sort of beta floating around with mic merge working.


I find the SINE Mic-Merge feature not working with BSS, and still not fixed very odd. 

What's so different about BSS compared to their other SINE based libraries that don't have an issue with Mic-Merge in SINE, I'm guessing they should know what they did if it is any different, and fix it.


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## jbuhler (May 30, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I find the SINE Mic-Merge feature not working with BSS, and still not fixed very odd.
> 
> What's so different about BSS compared to their other SINE based libraries that don't have an issue with Mic-Merge in SINE, I'm guessing they should know what they did if it is any different, and fix it.


One would think so, but the new version of Sine has not been released, and I doubt very much they are withholding it for no reason. Some who have a beta say it's fixed, and that suggests to me that while it's fixed for some, maybe most, it's not fixed for all. So we wait until they can figure it out. There's no obvious difference with BSS except that it has multiple legatos. I'm not sure that's true of any of my other Sine libraries.


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## Toecutter (May 30, 2021)

I searched and searched, any recent user tracks done with BSS?


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## Oxytoxine (Sep 18, 2021)

Have there been any updates in the meanwhile? 

I would like to purchase BSS, but this thread and the debacle I went through with JXL / Sine player when it was released makes me very cautious (I could not use it for several months and finally deleted it). I in no way would like to spread negativity (as written I want to purchase BSS), but would be very glad to know whether these issues have been fixed by now or whether you just gave up, seeing that the (very deserved) complaining does not help? Thanks in advance, really hope to join the BSS team soon


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## Oxytoxine (Sep 18, 2021)

I've just read the Sound on Sound review of BSS. Had a laugh: many of you mentioned problems with the legato transitions, and the violins patches. In the review, they praise it, for example in the section about the violins: "All in all, these legatos are second to none, and a joy to play." 😳

Now I am confused. The review is from april, so all the issues you guys mentioned should also be in the lib SOS had to review? Still, not one word about the issues, e.g. the not working mic merge etc. What gives?

Edit:

I believe every word you wrote, it's just interesting to see this huge discrepance (no negatives in the review of a publication that is often touted as a very solid source, hmm..)


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## Loerpert (Sep 18, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> I've just read the Sound on Sound review of BSS. Had a laugh: many of you mentioned problems with the legato transitions, and the violins patches. In the review, they praise it, for example in the section about the violins: "All in all, these legatos are second to none, and a joy to play." 😳
> 
> Now I am confused. The review is from april, so all the issues you guys mentioned should also be in the lib SOS had to review? Still, not one word about the issues, e.g. the not working mic merge etc. What gives?



Well the legato's are quite similar to any other OT legato patch if you ask me. Not too great, not bad either. I use these strings mainly for layering. The spot mics are on by default, which make them sound very narrow, but with that turned of, the other mics sound great! I'm not a super intensive user and I have not noticed any big issues. Just wish OT would focus a little bit more on getting the legato right for their libraries that's all.


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## Oxytoxine (Sep 18, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> Well the legato's are quite similar to any other OT legato patch if you ask me. Not too great, not bad either. I use these strings mainly for layering. The spot mics are on by default, which make them sound very narrow, but with that turned of, the other mics sound great! I'm not a super intensive user and I have not noticed any big issues. Just wish OT would focus a little bit more on getting the legato right for their libraries that's all.


Thank you very much for your perspective!

It's sometimes very hard to distinguish the real dealbreakers from the not so "crucial" issues / (and of course, a lot may also be subjective). I've experienced it in both directions: bought a library in an impulsive manner despite many complaints, and then was very happy and wondered why others have so many problems, but also in the opposite direction: bought after glowing reviews and as soon as I had it under my fingers found catastrophic bugs / issues making it absolutely unusable (for me), so I decided to do more research before purchase.

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience!


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## Loerpert (Sep 18, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> Thank you very much for your perspective!
> 
> It's sometimes very hard to distinguish the real dealbreakers from the not so "crucial" issues / (and of course, a lot may also be subjective). I've experienced it in both directions: bought a library in an impulsive manner despite many complaints, and then was very happy and wondered why others have so many problems, but also in the opposite direction: bought after glowing reviews and as soon as I had it under my fingers found catastrophic bugs / issues making it absolutely unusable (for me), so I decided to do more research before purchase.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to share your experience!



No problem. I totally know what you mean. I guess it has to do with the fact that everyone has a different taste when it comes to sound. Also everyone has different use cases probably. I would say this library is comparable to SFA Symphonic Strings and PS Vista strings since they sound similar section wise. I think Vista has the better legato and spitfire symphonic strings has a bit more articulations. Where Berlin Symphonic Strings shines I think is in the microphone control. It's not extremely special but if you need the sound of Teldex but you want larger sounding strings than Berlin Strings, then it's worth it. I would recommend waiting for a sale though if possible.

Let me know if you need some more info


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## jbuhler (Sep 18, 2021)

I like BSS. But there are still real issues. Mic merge doesn’t work. The modwheel for the first violins seems oddly calibrated. You might find the highest vibrato setting inadequate (I like it as us but many complain about it). The library lacks portamento. Small bugs remain, especially in the legato scripting, that were reported within days of the library’s release that haven’t been addressed. None of these bugs is a deal killer, but they are there and you have to devise workarounds if you encounter them. 

But overall I think the library sounds great, both on its own and layered with the libraries. It’s one of my most versatile libraries for layering.


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## novaburst (Sep 18, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> bought a library in an impulsive manner despite many complaints, and then was very happy and wondered why others have so many problems,


And this is a number one problem of forums it can be a bit one sided and you may only end up purchasing Fanboy libraries, like....... ok ok* (i want mention them).* some can be rather bitter against certain developers and they will do there best to turn you from the purchase from certain Developer libraries.

I have BSS and i am glad i got them, i think if i had taken to heart the negative comments about them maybe i would not have them, so i think you need to make up your own mind with your own ear on this one just be your self, if you think a library can play apart in your project just go for it because your not going to like every thing about it anyway. and you perhaps want need the parts that have issues, i dont believe any one uses an entire library anyway for the most part you may use 40 to 50% of any given library then use another to bridge the gap,



Oxytoxine said:


> issues, e.g. the not working mic merge etc. What gives?


Ok call me simple, ...while mic merge has its issue for this library there is a hack or work around.
For some mic merge want work when used with your DAW or host, but MM will work in SINE standalone, 

you can use the different Mic to get your blend and sound you desire then save it, and name it, when you have completed your session with your DAW boot SINE up in stand alone and merge your mic blend then* (save as)* when next you are in your session with your DAW you can call for the SINE you did Mic merge in standalone and it really isn't that much of an hassle but its safe and stable. because your already have the Mic merge done and no need to do inside your DAW.

While users can give you there experience, there can be nothing like your own, yes listen to what others have to say but you also have a say too, 

I also think a library takes time to grow on you, you my get shell shock at the the beginning and you want get that instant gratification but later you are over the moon about the same library you thought you were disappointed with.


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## Oxytoxine (Sep 18, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> No problem. I totally know what you mean. I guess it has to do with the fact that everyone has a different taste when it comes to sound. Also everyone has different use cases probably. I would say this library is comparable to SFA Symphonic Strings and PS Vista strings since they sound similar section wise. I think Vista has the better legato and spitfire symphonic strings has a bit more articulations. Where Berlin Symphonic Strings shines I think is in the microphone control. It's not extremely special but if you need the sound of Teldex but you want larger sounding strings than Berlin Strings, then it's worth it. I would recommend waiting for a sale though if possible.
> 
> Let me know if you need some more info


Thanks a lot for your response and the kind offer for more info  I think I will not need to come back to this generous offer as I’ve decided to pass for the moment, and your answer was already very helpful!

I was not aware that the spots are on by default - that would explain a lot of the sonic characteristics one hears in the demos (assuming they used the default settings of course). Very good to know that it is so easy to widen / push the mix back.

With regard to legato - yes, I think I hear in the demos / walkthroughs what you mean and also others articulated. Not optimal, but not too bad either. I hope that your wishes will be fulfilled with a nice legato update 

Also the comparison with Spitfire Symphonic Strings and Vista is helpful to me. 

Cheers and happy composing!


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## Oxytoxine (Sep 18, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I like BSS. But there are still real issues. Mic merge doesn’t work. The modwheel for the first violins seems oddly calibrated. You might find the highest vibrato setting inadequate (I like it as us but many complain about it). The library lacks portamento. Small bugs remain, especially in the legato scripting, that were reported within days of the library’s release that haven’t been addressed. None of these bugs is a deal killer, but they are there and you have to devise workarounds if you encounter them.
> 
> But overall I think the library sounds great, both on its own and layered with the libraries. It’s one of my most versatile libraries for layering.


Merci beaucoup for sharing your impressions / experiences, very helpful! Yes, layering would be the main purpose, and like you, I also find the sound to be gorgeous. Good to hear that you can make good use of the library despite some of the bugs you mentioned and already reported very early. 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your contributions on this forum, in general - there is always much to learn from your posts, and even though not all of the bugs have been (hopefully: yet) removed, I think it’s important for the company to get such feedback. And also for potential customers like me 

After reading the responses of you guys, I notice a bad feeling in my stomach. I personally don’t need the mic merge function and surely could live with / work around the other mentioned issues, but it’s about principles. 

It escapes me how it is even legal to advertise certain functionality that is clearly broken, for such a long time, and the radio silence of OT in response to some of you guys reports. Especially in products that are so expensive and with no possibility for a refund. Anyway, I have not (yet) a personal dog in this race.

So, thanks again! I am out for the moment (but chances are high that my principles will brake down the next time I listen to some beautiful BSS pieces  and wish you the best with the library!

Best, Oxy


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## Oxytoxine (Sep 18, 2021)

novaburst said:


> And this is a number one problem of forums it can be a bit one sided and you may only end up purchasing Fanboy libraries, like....... ok ok* (i want mention them).* some can be rather bitter against certain developers and they will do there best to turn you from the purchase from certain Developer libraries.
> 
> I have BSS and i am glad i got them, i think if i had taken to heart the negative comments about them maybe i would not have them, so i think you need to make up your own mind with your own ear on this one just be your self, if you think a library can play apart in your project just go for it because your not going to like every thing about it anyway. and you perhaps want need the parts that have issues, i dont believe any one uses an entire library anyway for the most part you may use 40 to 50% of any given library then use another to bridge the gap,
> 
> ...


Wise words, and coincidentally coming at the very right time for me personally  Wow, you just put nicely into words what I am starting to realize more and more since spending (way too much) time here on the forum asking too many questions. 

First: Many thanks for describing the concrete hack for the broken mic merge functionality! I would use this only rarely, so would not be a dealbreaker for me, but good to know that there is a workaround. 

Yes, focusing only on the negative sides, one could not purchase a single library, because all of them have their flaws and, on the flip side, positive aspects. Pick what you like in a library and don’t get too upset about the rest is a balanced and healthy motto. 

It seems to be part of human nature to self identify way too much with a certain product / brand / ideology / whatever and then falling into the too simplistic dichotomies. 

Alas - as I write this, I realize that exactly the same happened to me just now; above I wrote something like „I could live with the issues, it’s more about principles - will not purchase from such a company anymore! (*waving angry fist in the air)“, and getting way too involved emotionally, despite knowing that of course there are still a ton of very positive things about this wonderful library, that OT is a very cool company with great products, that the issues are rather small when compared with other things, etc. 

Now it’s my rational inner Mr. Spock talking again, without the gut feelings: 

I think part of the problem is that only hearing a library / demos is not sufficient to get a proper impression. If it only would be possible to personally test libraries in a physical store - this would remedy so much (and save us so much money and energy), and then one could really just trust her own ears. I would be happy to pay for such a possibility. Anyway: it is as it is.

So, in summary: big thanks for sharing your perspective - very helpful, especially as it kind of reinforces what I was thinking, too, but hearing it again and again, also from the outside, helps to „consolidate“ this insight. 

Ha, and now I have to go to redownload the library you won’t mention  because (when my suspicion is right) I deleted it after pulling my hairs out in despair (thereby of course neglecting that, despite many flaws and not fulfilling all my wishes, it has still a lot going for it) and thus originally triggered my interest in the Berlin ecosystem. 

Cheers and take care

Oxy


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## jbuhler (Sep 18, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> After reading the responses of you guys, I notice a bad feeling in my stomach. I personally don’t need the mic merge function and surely could live with / work around the other mentioned issues, but it’s about principles.
> 
> It escapes me how it is even legal to advertise certain functionality that is clearly broken, for such a long time, and the radio silence of OT in response to some of you guys reports. Especially in products that are so expensive and with no possibility for a refund. Anyway, I have not (yet) a personal dog in this race.


I would say that I see the mic merge more along the lines of a nice feature, rather than something that affects basic functionality, and so its absence is really a minor irritation. I'm far more concerned about the unfixed bugs in the library, minor though they generally are, than the mic merge. Because you have to find real workarounds to the bugs, and it's a bit distressing that OT doesn't seem especially concerned about fixing them in a timely fashion. It doesn't seem like it would be especially hard to address the scripting problems. And it makes me think that OT just doesn't have enough personnel to do basic maintenance on their libraries. That said I very much like OT's libraries, and am willing to live with imperfect within certain bounds.


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## Simon Ravn (Sep 18, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> I've just read the Sound on Sound review of BSS. Had a laugh: many of you mentioned problems with the legato transitions, and the violins patches. In the review, they praise it, for example in the section about the violins: "All in all, these legatos are second to none, and a joy to play." 😳
> 
> Now I am confused. The review is from april, so all the issues you guys mentioned should also be in the lib SOS had to review? Still, not one word about the issues, e.g. the not working mic merge etc. What gives?
> 
> ...


Don't trust a SOS review. Don't they give everything 5 stars more or less?


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## Virtuoso (Sep 18, 2021)

Simon Ravn said:


> Don't trust a SOS review. Don't they give everything 5 stars more or less?


Gordon Reid’s reviews are the only ones I trust - he’s very thorough, to a tedious degree to be honest, but he does always find the warts in a product and doesn’t whitewash over important problems. The software reviews are rarely useful beyond the feature descriptions. 

I’ve actually been reading SoS since issue 1, which must have been about 1985 or so!


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## Casiquire (Sep 19, 2021)

I feel like the mic merge issue is criminally exaggerated in these forums. It works just fine in standalone? I'm so done with hearing about it.


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## jbuhler (Sep 19, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I feel like the mic merge issue is criminally exaggerated in these forums. It works just fine in standalone? I'm so done with hearing about it.


Except mic merge for BSS doesn’t work for me in standalone. It’s not a big deal to me, and it’s far more consequential that OT hasn’t yet fixed the other reported bugs.


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## holywilly (Sep 19, 2021)

I wish spiccato exposed will be added in the next updated.


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## holywilly (Sep 19, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I feel like the mic merge issue is criminally exaggerated in these forums. It works just fine in standalone? I'm so done with hearing about it.


Enable 3 mic positions cost 5GB of ram, it’s nice to get mic merging worked, so I can load more instruments in my template.


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## Germain B (Sep 19, 2021)

I also don't really care about this issue... Will be nice when it will be fixed, but it's fine.


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## jbuhler (Sep 19, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Enable 3 mic positions cost 5GB of ram, it’s nice to get mic merging worked, so I can load more instruments in my template.


I think he’s saying that many folks find that creating a mic merge is only broken in the plugin version of Sine, so you can use the standalone to make the mic merges and then access them in the DAW. Mic merge doesn’t work for me even in standalone for BBS. But you might try it on your system since it’s working for some.


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## muziksculp (Sep 19, 2021)

BSS Mic Merge is broken for me, in both Standalone, and Plugin versions of SINE. 

The fact that OT has not been able to offer a fix after so many months, and this is their own player, makes me uncomfortable, and yes the Mic-Merge feature would be very useful to reduce the RAM footprint.


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## babylonwaves (Sep 19, 2021)

Simon Ravn said:


> Don't trust a SOS review. Don't they give everything 5 stars more or less?


No, they don’t. You mix them up with future music 😉 IMO They’re more trust worthy than any other English language musical instrument publication. The questions is how much you trust this forum (or the internet) in comparison.


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## Casiquire (Sep 19, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Except mic merge for BSS doesn’t work for me in standalone. It’s not a big deal to me, and it’s far more consequential that OT hasn’t yet fixed the other reported bugs.



Ok that's fair. Anyway though, it's not a core necessary feature. It's a "nice to have" extra. And i don't think I'd ever use it because every project needs little mic tweaks anyway. We get along just fine without it with every non-SINE library we use


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## jbuhler (Sep 19, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Ok that's fair. Anyway though, it's not a core necessary feature. It's a "nice to have" extra. And i don't think I'd ever use it because every project needs little mic tweaks anyway. We get along just fine without it with every non-SINE library we use


Yes, I agree it’s not a core feature, and in truth I’ve only ever used mic merging on a couple of patches.


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## novaburst (Sep 19, 2021)

Its very strange why it works flawlessly in *(Standalone)* some some systems and not others because if you have it working in Standalone you have no problem with MM you just need to click on that standalone when you are in you DAW, 

My guess, it may be an issue with what DAW you are using, for me i am on Cubase 10.40 and it works in standalone so have no issues if when use it in my DAW

Also i feel updates start breaking things especially DAW updates are the worst, so you will have every thing running rock solid then suddenly you update then things get broken, some times its also self inflicted you forgot you did a change or you installed a program that may course conflict,


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## Rudianos (Sep 19, 2021)

I own the Celli section and will buy if the rest of the group if on sale again. I think the main legato is nice. The Rapid one takes some getting used too. They are very musical celli - but they phrase in ways I may not always like. Like they have built in (sorry for bringing in a familiar 8dio term) some arcs. I feel too that the shorts could have been flushed out some more. And their seems not to be portamento. Really should be there. I would like to see them add more. Yes Mic merge does crash SINE for me - and the patch crashes it too. I don't care with my amount of RAM but yeah...


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## dhmusic (Sep 19, 2021)

Is everyone making sure it's the first instance opened? I find it works best with a single instance open.


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## Evans (Sep 19, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Except mic merge for BSS doesn’t work for me in standalone. It’s not a big deal to me, and it’s far more consequential that OT hasn’t yet fixed the other reported bugs.


Same, doesn't work at all. It's disappointing, but not like it's the same level of frustration as the frequent SINE crashes I used to get (note that I cannot remember the last time it did crash).

Beyond the other bugs, I'm mostly just bothered that they are _still_ advertising a broken feature on the actual BSS page. It's a compounding concern with the others. Which is a shame, because I love the Teldex sound, and I really like their choices on what to sample (see: MODUS).


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## jbuhler (Sep 19, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> Is everyone making sure it's the first instance opened? I find it works best with a single instance open.


Yes, standalone is first and only instance. And it’s only been an issue for BSS. I got an error dialogue box when i mic merged Majestic Horn, but the merge still worked.


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## muziksculp (Sep 19, 2021)

Now that OT has expanded their Tech/development team, and their office space, maybe things will change to the better, and we will see them fix the Mic-Merge issue, and give us a nicer turbo-charged version of SINE 

I'm also patiently waiting for the porting of their other Berlin Orchestral libraries to SINE. They mentioned they will be out very soon. Let's see what that means, I'm trying to stay as optimistic as possible given the very long wait.


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## jbuhler (Sep 19, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I'm also patiently waiting for the porting of their other Berlin Orchestral libraries to SINE. They mentioned they will be out very soon. Let's see what that means, I'm trying to stay as optimistic as possible given the very long wait.


You and me both. i still find the capsule version of Berlin Strings almost unusable because apparently it’s just not wired the way I am. In any case, I find i intuit Sine much better, and already have plans for how I will set up Berlin Strings once it’s available for Sine.

That does remind me of one thing I don’t like about Sine: I can’t rename patches and so identify which patches I’ve altered in various ways, like adding legato, or eliminating dodgy round robins. Yes, some of the patches come with legato engaged and are labeled, but you can add legato to many other articulations.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 19, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I feel like the mic merge issue is criminally exaggerated in these forums. It works just fine in standalone? I'm so done with hearing about it.


Sine is the only player with the feature and yet apparently it's preventing people from using any string library XD


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## Babe (Sep 19, 2021)

I bought BSS because I couldn't resist the price as an owner of BS. I also own BWW. Even if the mike merge is fixed and BS and BWW are ported to Sine, I will probably still use Capsule until Sine has more features. There is so much more you can do with Capsule than you can with Sine.


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## muziksculp (Sep 19, 2021)

Given how the OT team developed CAPSULE for Kontakt, which was built on another developer's sampler platform, but they managed to squeeze quite a good amount of advanced features into it. 

I see no reason that they can't add some additional advanced, and very useful features to a future version of their own, in-house developed player SINE, maybe they will surprise us with (SINE 2), actually I feel it's almost inevitable they will do so.


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## Saxer (Sep 19, 2021)

I think as they are porting Berlin Orchestra to Sine the Sine player will be updated on release. Usually the player updates go hand in hand with developing the content. Actually that's the real benefit of own software players. It's the same with Spitfire's player and Synchron player too: updates come with new libraries.


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## jamwerks (Sep 19, 2021)

babylonwaves said:


> No, they don’t. You mix them up with future music 😉 IMO They’re more trust worthy than any other English language musical instrument publication. The questions is how much you trust this forum (or the internet) in comparison.


From my experience, SOS won't give bad scores to a product that also advertises with them. But that's probably the case in all sectors of media.


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## G_Erland (Sep 20, 2021)

Babe said:


> I bought BSS because I couldn't resist the price as an owner of BS. I also own BWW. Even if the mike merge is fixed and BS and BWW are ported to Sine, I will probably still use Capsule until Sine has more features. There is so much more you can do with Capsule than you can with Sine.


Any chance I could know about some of the advanced features you and @muziksculp refer to?


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## Babe (Sep 20, 2021)

G_Erland said:


> Any chance I could know about some of the advanced features you and @muziksculp refer to?


You can assign a lot of parameters to cc. Such as attack, release, vibrato, etc. Almost everything you can think of. You can also adjust the cc curves of many of these parameters. You can stack up to 4 articulations and morph between them via horizontal and vertical sliders.


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## Evans (Sep 20, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Sine is the only player with the feature and yet apparently it's preventing people from using any string library XD


Can you point to where someone has said they can't use any string library because Mic Merge is broken for BSS?


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 20, 2021)

Evans said:


> Can you point to where someone has said they can't use any string library because Mic Merge is broken for BSS?


It's not literal, just pointing out how people act like it's the end of the world as if every other string library on the planet doesn't have a merge feature and there isn't pages and pages on threads about them


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## ka00 (Sep 20, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> It's not literal, just pointing out how people act like it's the end of the world as if every other string library on the planet doesn't have a merge feature and there isn't pages and pages on threads about them


In the absence of a purge sample feature (which a player like Kontakt has), the lack of a functional mic merging implementation ten months after the launch of BSS becomes something worth bringing up.


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## muziksculp (Sep 20, 2021)

ka00 said:


> In the absence of a purge sample feature


+1 

Yup.. I hope they add a Purge feature to SINE


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## Evans (Sep 20, 2021)

What we can be literal about is that it's the first of three SINE features promoted on every single SINE-enabled product page, including BSS. It's even the first feature discussed in the "Introducing: the SINE Player" video on YouTube. Obviously, OT sees it as a big deal and have put in good effort to convince people that it is. And it's really neat when it works!

I almost never use my car's cruise control, but if it was advertised as a hot new feature and there were buttons for it yet it didn't work, that'd be... weird.

I'm not refusing to move on, but I will reiterate my point (within the mods' discretion) *if *someone tries to claim it's not an issue or if they exaggerate why people have a problem with it, clouding the actual concern.


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## Casiquire (Sep 20, 2021)

Ok we get it. Moving on


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## AEF (Sep 20, 2021)

The same two OT fluffers love telling everyone they arent permitted to be annoyed by false advertising. And when valid points are presented to them, they say “enough move on” until the next thread in which they feel compelled to white knight for a company they supposedly have no connection with.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 20, 2021)

AEF said:


> The same two OT fluffers love telling everyone they arent permitted to be annoyed by false advertising. And when valid points are presented to them, they say “enough move on” until the next thread in which they feel compelled to white knight for a company they supposedly have no connection with.


I'mgoing to assume that's directed at me(the guy who just wrote about how he won't buy samples twice on another OT product thread) - I'm on the side of wanting the merge to be fixed, but I'm also not acting like it's the biggest tragedy in the world. 

I paid for a string library, I have a string library - it's no less usable than any other string library even if mic merge isn't working yet, it's not a show stopper - if it is, that person should spend money on hardware before any string libraries. That's the most reasonable advice I can give. Maybe you think I'm bias, I'd like to think I'm just being pragmatic.


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## Casiquire (Sep 20, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I'mgoing to assume that's directed at me(the guy who just wrote about how he won't buy samples twice on another OT product thread) - I'm on the side of wanting the merge to be fixed, but I'm also not acting like it's the biggest tragedy in the world.
> 
> I paid for a string library, I have a string library - it's no less usable than any other string library even if mic merge isn't working yet, it's not a show stopper - if it is, that person should spend money on hardware before any string libraries. That's the most reasonable advice I can give. Maybe you think I'm bias, I'd like to think I'm just being pragmatic.


I assumed it was about me, who was also just in another thread saying the new library isn't for me either. Anyway there have been over a dozen posts about the mic merge in the last day. So what more is there to say


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## ka00 (Sep 20, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> +1
> 
> Yup.. I hope they add a Purge feature to SINE


Personally, of the two, if I could only have one fully working feature, I’d prefer purging over merging.


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## muziksculp (Sep 20, 2021)

ka00 said:


> Personally, of the two, if I could only have one fully working feature, I’d prefer purging over merging.


I agree. Purging is super useful to have, and it is accomplished with one click, and is instantly done when needed. i.e. Kontakt, and the new EW OPUS player offer Purge functionality. The Mic-Merge feature for SINE is also very helpful, but it takes some time to perform the merge function, and most of the time you have to perform it in the Standalone version of SINE to work properly.


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## Nils Neumann (Sep 20, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I agree. Purging is super useful to have, and it is accomplished with one click, and is instantly done when needed. i.e. Kontakt, and the new EW OPUS player offer Purge functionality. The Mic-Merge feature for SINE is also very helpful, but it takes some time to perform the merge function, and most of the time you have to perform it in the Standalone version of SINE to work properly.


And you have to re do the merging again when the samples get updated.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 20, 2021)

Nils Neumann said:


> And you have to re do the merging again when the samples get updated.



That's my secret cap' I never update 

Really though, it's only library updates(not player updates) and I've never had an issue where I've made merges knowing the samples needed fixing so I've actually yet to run into that issue. I think it comes with the territory of that functionality though, to he reasonable.


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## ka00 (Sep 21, 2021)

Oh by the way, it might be a nice feature if in the mixer in SINE, there was a button to hide/show unloaded mic positions. That way, the user can visually focus only on the mics or merges being used.

Just an idea. Thanks


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