# Ascap - Bmi - Prs?



## Tanuj Tiku (Apr 25, 2013)

Hi!

I am a composer based in Mumbai, India. Recently I did some music for a library through which it is going to be licensed for a US TV show in June.

Now, I need to register myself with ASCAP or BMI or PRS to get the royalties.

As an International composer, I am not sure what the differences are and which one I should join?

The IPRS (Indian Performing Rights Society) is very corrupt and has rarely made payments to Indian composers. A law has been passed in the parliament but its implementation will take a few years and probably will dissolve IRPS in favour of a new government approved body. In any case the IPRS may delay payments and it might be a long uphill battle. BMI has a straightforward way of joining for international composers. But, I just wanted to know if there are any pros and cons of joining any of these societies. 

Since this forum has many International composer who have worked on projects around the world, which is more applicable for me?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated! 


Thanks.

Tanuj.


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## Dean (Apr 25, 2013)

Hey Vibrato,
each country has their own domestic royalty collection agency,BMI & ASCAP - USA (also worldwide),PRS - UK,Europe(also worldwide),but they also collect worldwide aswell ,which means they will liase with the other countries collection agencies to collect royalties on your behalf from other countries.If you know that the main broadcaster will be in the US then BMI or ASCAP would be a good choice since they are based in the territory thats actually broadcasting your music,similarily PRS would be a good choice if your music was being broadcast mainly in Europe.
(hope that makes sense?)

You should call each of the 3 agencies and ask them directly for advice,what percentage do they take?Do they collect worldwide including India?..then decide whats best for your situation.
Maybe you can join BMI or ASCAP they can collect from India aswell instead of IPRS? D


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## Tanuj Tiku (Apr 25, 2013)

Dean,

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. This is really helpful information. I will call ASCAP and BMI tomorrow. PRS does not make sense at the moment I suppose because I haven't worked on anything which originates in Europe. 

Perhaps, if this TV show did well in the US, it may be broadcast in Europe and other parts of the world but at this stage this is not known and I am guessing that depends on the response of its first run in the US.

Tanuj.


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## Dean (Apr 25, 2013)

Hey Vibrato,
another thought,..
I think its also possible to be a member of different collection societies at the same time but for different territories,for instance,you could join ASCAP or BMI for USA broadcasts exclusively and also Join PRS for European(worldwide)for all other broadcasts.

This is something you need to ask each society as they might not all agree to omit or share territories with other societies.Regarding collecting royalties in India you should also ask which is the best society for collecting for you there. D


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## nikolas (Apr 25, 2013)

From the ones that I know GEMA, SAGEM, STIM, AEPI, PRS, ASCAP and BMI all allow excluding territories. I'm forced to assume that this is the norm for everyone...

Tanuj,

Best of luck with your career and chasing and all that!


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## Lemmonz (Apr 25, 2013)

Dean @ Thu Apr 25 said:


> ...
> I think its also possible to be a member of different collection societies at the same time but for different territories,for instance,you could join ASCAP or BMI for USA broadcasts exclusively and also Join PRS for European(worldwide)for all other broadcasts.



I'm pretty sure you can only be a member of one collection society at a time. PRO's are supposed to pay out royalties that are owed to their respective foreign PRO's. So, if you are with BMI and have music generate royalties in the UK, PRS will collect that and pay it out to BMI, which then distributes it you. 

As a member of BMI, this is how I understand they do it (if somebody knows otherwise, please say so!). There's a section on BMI's site that explains how they do it. However, different PRO's may have different terms about all this.

Another tidbit from that article, getting foreign royalties paid to you can take a longer period of time than non-foreign royalties. Apparently, some PRO's only pay out foreign royalties annually or semi-annually, and only if you generate over a certain amount (like $50).


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## Dean (Apr 25, 2013)

Lemmonz @ Thu Apr 25 said:


> Dean @ Thu Apr 25 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Yes,Pros work together to collect foreign royalties but most societies are passive and rely on whatever the other foreign Pro sends them,however joining a PRO directly for an exclusive territory gives you a better chance of getting paid properly as they will have local knowledge,good contacts,the language etc.For example I recently queried percentage errors on my royalty statements from my PRO(IMRO) about royalties from SACEM(France) and they ended up owing me over 10,000euro.

You can join more than one PRO with exclusive territories as Nick also pointed out.But you have to check with each PRO on an individual basis first,different societies have different rules etc.

Re payments:Thats true,..different PROs pay out at different times per year,some quarterly,bi-annually,France(SACEM)pays once a year.

Also Vibrato,..you know the old phrase:'If you want something done properly do it yourself'.
If possible you should ask the clients if you can prepare the cuesheets yourself,otherwise they're are usually filled out by someone who happens to be free or a trainee,(and they always make mistakes,shorten cue times,dont label things properly,if you cant do them yourself always get a copy of the cuesheets and check them thoroughly and send them to your PRO yourself,dont rely on the producers to this for you. D


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## Tanuj Tiku (Apr 25, 2013)

Thanks fore replying guys.

Well, I am going to call the various societies. So, I will know soon if I can sign with two at the same time. I am definitely doing ASCAP or BMI.

I know some composers in India who get royalties from PRS(UK) regularly even from within India. So that works but I just need to find out if I need to sign with both or one or whichever is better.

Dean,

I am completely new to this system. I have never filled out a cue sheet nor much less know what it actually is. My direct client is a composer and I am writing for his private library (WhatNot Industries) which is getting used for a new TV show called The Hero with Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson in it. 

They tell me they are using a lot of my music, three tracks in various places for now. They like two more but they are still editing so they will get to them if its useful for the show. One of them is being used for what they call a 'Cold Opening' - I did Google it but did not understand what it really means.

I am not even sure how much royalty one gets and what is the kind of money involved or how it is calculated?

I guess, I have some catching up to do and calling up one of the royalty societies will be a good start.

Sorry for asking stupid questions but this is a completely new system for me like I said. Over here in India, everything I do or most people do (including top composers) is a buyout. So, I have no clue about cue sheets or anything. There are no contracts or anything. Its a different system here. And its been so for the last 25 films I have worked on as additional composer.


Thanks again guys, really appreciate all the help. 

Tanuj.


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## Dean (Apr 25, 2013)

vibrato @ Thu Apr 25 said:


> Dean,
> 
> I am completely new to this system. I have never filled out a cue sheet nor much less know what it actually is.
> 
> ...



The cuesheets are god!,without them there are no royalties,..you will receive nothing!

A cuesheet is a detailed list of all the individual music cues within a programme,it includes episode number/title and all the individual cue titles,cue lengths,composers name /details and PRO number,royalty splits,publishers titles etc.
For example if you do a series with 26 episodes each episode will need its own cuesheet,then the producers send all the cuesheets to all the relevant broadcasters.
After the series has aired,(usually it takes 6 -12 months before you'll see any money)The broadcasters have all the info they need to know to pay music royalties to their PRO who eventually passes the money on to your countries PRO and then to you.
Normally the producers do the cuesheets but always check that they do them and do them properly!!If you are going to do them ask them for a cuesheet template in Word format most producers have one,its just an A4 sheet,nothing too fancy at all.
Its a good idea to get a copy of the cuesheets for your files and to send them to your PRO aswell also normally the producers will have a list of broadcasters who will air the series,you can ask nicely for this list and pass it on to your PRO,this helps them to know who will broadcast your series with your music.

re Royalties: 
this is a technical minefield(or mindf**ck!),ask other composer friends privately re rates.fees and deal options,..research,research,call a few music lawyers and ask for some quick advice usually they'ell give out some info for free because you might come back to them to engage their services.

If you're doing a standard tv/film contract (not a total buyout!)then you retain 50% of the broadcast royalties/broadcast fees,this is the legal standard,no exceptions, without negotiation.You also receive your upfront fee aswell this is usually negotiable and differs from gig to gig.

Honestly dont sweat this stuff too much,thats other peoples jobs too to help you,just be the best damn composer you can be,always strive to be better and blow the rest away,none of this crap matters if the musics does'nt matter. D


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## germancomponist (Apr 25, 2013)

Today there is an interesting read on CDbaby: 

"*Why Signing Up with ASCAP or BMI is Not Enough*"

http://diymusician.cdbaby.com/2013/...l&utm_content=04-25-13&utm_campaign=DIY042513


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## arxpit (Jun 6, 2013)

Hey Tanuj,

Great topic. Have you signed up for either? Whats the update?

-Arpit


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jun 6, 2013)

Arpit,

I have signed up with BMI for now. They were really helpful and the composer who owns the company via which my music is getting licensed also put me in touch with someone directly at BMI.

So far, I have only the US territory to worry about. I might do what Dean recommended..that is I can sign up with PRS for the rest of the world.


Thanks once again everyone!


Tanuj.


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