# Getting from idea to sketch to finished production



## Arbee (Dec 22, 2013)

This is just a plea for any ideas about how to streamline workflow between the creative and technical components. In many ways I've been very lucky - I learnt to play instruments as a child, played in rock bands, learnt to orchestrate on paper and work with real orchestras, learnt to program synthesizers, and then spent many years working in IT and systems development. 

Now that I'm trying to find my way through all of this the second time around, but multi-tasking in DAWland this time, my workflow is quite frankly a mess. I'm comfortable with all of the components separately, but in developing any track I find myself working partly on paper, partly on the piano/guitar, partly in the synth patches themselves, then get lost trying to decide whether to do an orchestral sketch or go straight to the final product. Ugh!

I suspect the answer is "whatever works for you" but it all works, however I can't seem to get it all into a simple creative flow. We certainly live in an age of options......Help! ~o) 

.


----------



## Rctec (Dec 22, 2013)

Limit your options. Embrace the chaos. Get a deadline. think the piece all the way through as an intellectual arch, than write the notes. Sharpen your pencils. procrastinate. But meet your deadline!


----------



## Arbee (Dec 22, 2013)

Sincere thanks for taking the time to reply. Limiting my options is a discipline I do struggle with as I enjoy so many different genres of music and ways of writing, and I try to stretch the pallette in my head until my brain explodes. I like the term "embrace the chaos" because that's exactly how it feels when I start out each time.

I certainly get the procrastinating part - very good at that  These days, for now at least, deadlines are my own - and from previous experience I suspect therein lies the problem!

Have a safe and happy Christmas o-[][]-o 

.


----------



## Herenow (Dec 22, 2013)

Rctec @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> Limit your options. Embrace the chaos. Get a deadline. think the piece all the way through as an intellectual arch, than write the notes. Sharpen your pencils. procrastinate. But meet your deadline!


Amen! ))


----------



## ryanstrong (Dec 22, 2013)

Rctec @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> Limit your options. Embrace the chaos. Get a deadline. think the piece all the way through as an intellectual arch, than write the notes. Sharpen your pencils. procrastinate. But meet your deadline!



Printing this out and putting it up in the studio.


----------



## Farkle (Dec 23, 2013)

I was having a similar issue. Having been trained as a pencil and paper composer, I was trying to do my orchestrations into the DAW, and it was too much for my brain to remember/keep control of all at once.

Then, I started just saying "F*&@#$ it", and separating my tasks. That's the single greatest thing that I learnt this year. Separate my creative process into chunks that are fun for me.

So, now I start on Sibelius or Pen and Paper, and just write. I don't worry about it in the DAW, I just get the idea down. Most of my cues are 2 minute video game or library clips, so they're only like 60 bars. 

Oh, that's what I also do, I also sketch out the form on a piece of paper, and write the total number of bars I think I need to write. For me, that feels so good, because at the end of the day, I might say, "man, I only wrote 90 seconds of music", but I look at the form, and say, WOw, that was 42 bars, that's a good number for one day.

Once I sketch, I treat Midi input as a whole different discipline, and try to "turn off" my composing brain. I am basically inputting "someone else's" composition (myself from the morning), so that I'm not second guessing myself.

I also got a big excited boost from Jim Venable's post, where he describes how he composes into Sibelius, and rewire's it into his DAW. Here's a guy writing for TV animation, and he's built a super fast workflow, with composing into a notation flow. I'm nowhere near Jim, but that's a goal I have for 2014, get to 2 minutes of supple orchestral music a day, into the notation software, and have some sort of rewire to get the data into the DAW. With Studio One and Notion now being owned by Presonus, I might be able to do that.

ANYWAYS, for me, it's using all the tricks to keep it fun. Break it down into small tasks, separate the composing from the DAW midi mixing. Write out how long your cue should be, so that as you approach it, you feel a sense of accomplishment. Brew a cup of tea or broth, and be kind to yourself as you do it. Life's too short! 

Mike


----------



## AC986 (Dec 23, 2013)

Arbee @ Sun Dec 22 said:


> I suspect the answer is "whatever works for you" but it all works, however I can't seem to get it all into a simple creative flow. We certainly live in an age of options......Help! ~o)
> 
> .



I just usually try a piano sketch and then try and orchestrate it after. This is an example below. 2 tracks.

https://soundcloud.com/adrian-cook-79/piano-sketch


----------



## dfhagai (Dec 23, 2013)

> I also got a big excited boost from Jim Venable's post, where he describes how he composes into Sibelius,


could I be linked pleased?


----------



## Valérie_D (Dec 23, 2013)

Rctec @ Sun Dec 22 said:


> Limit your options. Embrace the chaos. Get a deadline.



Great advice!

I joined this forum last year and the help I got from this community is amazing. 

A big thanks to all of you and a Happy Christmas!

Valérie


----------



## Farkle (Dec 23, 2013)

dfhagai @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> > I also got a big excited boost from Jim Venable's post, where he describes how he composes into Sibelius,
> 
> 
> could I be linked pleased?



http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... highlight=


----------



## Musicologo (Dec 23, 2013)

My workflow:

1) playing on piano what I have in my mind.

2) making a melody + chords sketch.

3) making a piano reduction in notation software.

4) Improving the piano reduction until it can stand on its own. (end up with PDF for Piano ready to go!)

5) orchestrate the piano reduction for whatever ensemble I want it. (end up with PDF for orchestra ready to go!)

6) End up with a MIDI file that can stand on its own.

7) Open midi file in a DAW.

8) Assign virtual instruments to each midi track.

9) replace every midi track either to real tracks (real musicians) or human-played on top of midi or humanize the midi with math algorithms.

10) apply reverbs, effects, etc to tracks.

11) Mix them.

12) Master them.

Usually I get a nice WAV/AIFF/Mp3 in the end, and the musical scores ready to go. It takes time...


----------



## dfhagai (Dec 23, 2013)

I thank you my friend


----------



## dinerdog (Dec 23, 2013)

I think even the smallest of templates of some basic sounds (piano, bass, drums if nothing else) will get you playing 'something' sooner. Templates are a rabbit hole too and probably shouldn't be done when there's a deadline (you'll forever search for the right sound). I start with 7 audio tracks and eleven VIs. If I can't sketch something with that (and sound good) I'm in trouble.

That being said, I'm still making a template and fight this every time because I don't want anything to sound the same. And that deadline always comes into play.


----------



## mark812 (Dec 23, 2013)

Musicologo @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> My workflow:
> 
> 1) playing on piano what I have in my mind.
> 
> ...



Yes, pretty much how I work too. For anything that has melody, nothing beats the good old piano reduction (melody on top of block chords) approach imo. 

http://www.wisemanproject.com/education-orchestrationtip-by-KentaroSato.html (http://www.wisemanproject.com/education ... oSato.html) This is practically identical workflow to mine.


----------



## Arbee (Dec 23, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the thoughts and links, very interesting to know how others approach it. I try to avoid starting everything on piano and try to go straight from brain to sonic sketch (including of course piano where appropriate). Otherwise my brain gets let off the hook too early and I start composing with only my ears and muscle memory.

.


----------



## TMRodrigues (Dec 23, 2013)

mark812 @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> http://www.wisemanproject.com/education-orchestrationtip-by-KentaroSato.html (http://www.wisemanproject.com/education ... oSato.html) This is practically identical workflow to mine.



Great share!

Thank you very much. o-[][]-o


----------



## tokatila (Sep 23, 2014)

I'm having serious problems never letting go / not being good enough and one of the main reason seems to be having too many options. Same as in a big supermarket...

So, this was the first link in google when searching this forum with keywords "limit your options". And what I was thinking:

Have anyone of you tried to do "learn your libary" - method, where you use only one library for one/multiple compositions and then when you actually finish your work(s) (hopefully). And as a bonus you learn to use your stuff properly too...

E.g. Albion I - Easter Island Hits plays jazz, Albion II - Concerto for solo recorder..Albion III - Love theme for celli...

The gist being that no matter what, you can't add more stuff that isn't in the library you are learning. No matter what. No matter what. (Rocky IV reference).


----------



## jleckie (Sep 23, 2014)

TMRodrigues @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> mark812 @ Mon Dec 23 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.wisemanproject.com/education-orchestrationtip-by-KentaroSato.html (http://www.wisemanproject.com/education ... oSato.html) This is practically identical workflow to mine.
> ...



I'm assuming mr sato never wrote his book?


----------



## dcoscina (Sep 23, 2014)

For orchestral work I am finding it harder to compose in a daw. The last couple pieces were conceived and composed in ipad Notion then moved over to DP8 and better samples for the better produced final version. I had a radio show fanfare to compose and I had it done within a half hour in notion because I didn't have to futz with samples or mixing or libraries. I just composed in terms of melody, harmony rhythm and that stuff. Later came the production side but I found it easier wit the music written already


----------



## ed buller (Sep 23, 2014)

dcoscina @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> For orchestral work I am finding it harder to compose in a daw. The last couple pieces were conceived and composed in ipad Notion then moved over to DP8 and better samples for the better produced final version. I had a radio show fanfare to compose and I had it done within a half hour in notion because I didn't have to futz with samples or mixing or libraries. I just composed in terms of melody, harmony rhythm and that stuff. Later came the production side but I found it easier wit the music written already



amen


e


----------



## skyy38 (Feb 3, 2016)

Simple Process.

1. I sit down with pencil paper and keyboard and write music.
I don't futz with *anything* but getting the music written.
I don't "orchestrate as I go"-there's time enough for that later, because I have a close to complete idea of what I want, in that department, already in my head.

2. I track and orchestrate my music. This is the prime time for a bit of fun experimentation because the music is committed so now, I'm just fleshing it out.
I'll generally start with strings and use that as my foundation to stack more tracks on. I don't try and fool myself by putting an instrument or instruments where they don't belong-If the piece doesn't call for brass, even though I've tried it, then I won't try to "shoe-horn" it in, just to be a "completest". If it sounds good with just strings,french horn and flute, then I don't push it.

3. On my way to the home stretch by mixing this down, adding a "shine" and calling it good.
A note about my mix down process. I pan all of my instruments FIRST and then I adjust channel levels, as opposed to the other way around. Most of the time, if an instrument gets panned to it's own space, it will possess it's own volume as well and you won't have to adjust the fader, or the adjustment will be minimal.
Spatially speaking, it's kind of like using the pan as a volume control.

I then tranfer my mix to the computer where I give it a modest bit of compression in an audio editor.


----------

