# VSL using Ilok now?



## ag75 (Jan 7, 2022)

Has this happened now? what's the easiest way to convert my VSL libraries to Ilok? I'm so happy about this if it's true.


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## muziksculp (Jan 7, 2022)

ag75 said:


> Has this happened now? what's the easiest way to convert my VSL libraries to Ilok? I'm so happy about this if it's true.


Not yet.

Does this mean that VSL products will not need a dongle to be authorized anymore, since iLok can authorize software via machine ID, which I think the Steinberg e-Licenser system wasn't able to offer.

I also read that Steinberg is moving away from e-Licenser system. Although I'm not sure about this, I wonder if they are going to use iLok system as well ?


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## rnb_2 (Jan 7, 2022)

Still a bit longer to wait on VSL, but the process will be that you'll get an email from VSL when iLok activation becomes available so that you can give them your iLok ID. The licenses will then appear in your iLok account, and you'll also be able to download their new download manager (which will do auto-updates in the future, etc) and start downloading your libraries. Yes, that means you'll have to re-install all of your VSL libraries, for technical reasons that they're not ready to disclose yet.

Steinberg isn't doing iLok - I don't use Cubase, so I'm not totally up on what they are doing, but I think that much is clear.


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## muziksculp (Jan 7, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Yes, that means you'll have to re-install all of your VSL libraries, for technical reasons that they're not ready to disclose yet.


 OH... No, That's going to be painful. Are you sure about this ?


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## rnb_2 (Jan 7, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> OH... No, That's going to be painful. Are you sure about this ?


Yes - it was brought up in the iLok switchover thread, and I just reconfirmed it in another thread yesterday.


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## muziksculp (Jan 7, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Yes - it was brought up in the iLok switchover thread, and I just reconfirmed it in another thread yesterday.


OK. Thanks for the feedback. 

I'm not excited about re-downloading all of my VSL Libraries, but there is no way around this. 

Do you know if the move to iLok is mainly because it offers a dongle-free authorization option, compared to the e-Licenser system, which requires the dongle ?


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## dzilizzi (Jan 7, 2022)

I heard you can continue to use your e-licenser with old libraries until it doesn't work anymore. At which point, you will have download the new libraries because they will have to change where it looks for a license prior to loading. And, if you don't already have one, you'll need an iLok. 

The main reason this is happening is because, as owner of the e-licenser system, Steinberg has decided to discontinue it. Probably costs more to run than it's worth. They only get paid with new sales and there aren't enough companies using it.


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## easyrider (Jan 7, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> OK. Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I'm not excited about re-downloading all of my VSL Libraries, but there is no way around this.
> 
> Do you know if the move to iLok is mainly because it offers a dongle-free authorization option, compared to the e-Licenser system, which requires the dongle ?


Ilok cloud.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 7, 2022)

You will still need the dongle or maybe cloud? I don't think they are doing machine licenses, last I heard.


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## muziksculp (Jan 7, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> The main reason this is happening is because, as owner of the e-licenser system, Steinberg has decided to discontinue it. Probably costs more to run than it's worth. They only get paid with new sales and there aren't enough companies using it.


I see. Thanks for the feedback


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## rnb_2 (Jan 7, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> You will still need the dongle or maybe cloud? I don't think they are doing machine licenses, last I heard.


That's correct - iLok Cloud or dongle, no machine licenses (which irritates some, but is probably for the best).


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## muziksculp (Jan 7, 2022)

So, if I use some of Steinberg's software i.e. Halion 6, I will get an iLok license for them, and they can be put on my iLok, or be on the iLok Cloud if I choose to do so.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 7, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> That's correct - iLok Cloud or dongle, no machine licenses (which irritates some, but is probably for the best).


I hate machine licenses. I always forget to remove them. It's okay if I didn't format the old drive, but if the drive died? Yeah, gone. Except Toontrack and Plugin Alliance which let you control from the website.


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## rnb_2 (Jan 7, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> So, if I use some of Steinberg's software i.e. Halion 6, I will get an iLok license for them, and they can be put on my iLok, or be on the iLok Cloud if I choose to do so.


No, Steinberg isn't switching to iLok.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 7, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> So, if I use some of Steinberg's software i.e. Halion 6, I will get an iLok license for them, and they can be put on my iLok, or be on the iLok Cloud if I choose to do so.


No, Steinberg is doing something else, probably a cloud or machine license. No more dongles.


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## muziksculp (Jan 7, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> No, Steinberg is doing something else, probably a cloud or machine license. No more dongles.


I see. So, Steinberg will have a new Authorization system for their products, but with no dongles. 

Interesting. That's still going to cost them to run it, admin costs., ..etc. But maybe less than dealing with their current e-Licenser Dongle system.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 7, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I see. So, Steinberg will have a new Authorization system for their products, but with no dongles.
> 
> Interesting. That's still going to cost them to run it, admin costs., ..etc. But maybe less than dealing with their current e-Licenser Dongle system.


I think it will probably run off their current download software. And it may be it only needs to phone home once a year or something. I haven't heard the specifics. it will be coming out with Cubase 12. Or so I heard.


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## muziksculp (Jan 7, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> I think it will probably run off their current download software. And it may be it only needs to phone home once a year or something. I haven't heard the specifics. it will be coming out with Cubase 12. Or so I heard.


Interesting.


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## PrimeEagle (Jan 7, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> I think it will probably run off their current download software. And it may be it only needs to phone home once a year or something. I haven't heard the specifics. it will be coming out with Cubase 12. Or so I heard.


Dorico 4 will be the first product to use it, then I think Cubase 12 after that.

From the Dorico blog: "The really exciting thing about the arrival of Steinberg Licensing is that you will gain a lot more freedom and flexibility in how you use your Steinberg software. Firstly, each single-user license can be used simultaneously on three computers, so if you have, for example, both a desktop and laptop computer, you’ll be able to activate Dorico on both computers. If you subsequently need to run on a fourth computer, that’s no problem: deactivate one of the existing computers, and you can activate on the fourth right away. There is no limit to how many times you can move your activations between your computers.

Secondly, although activation is managed by signing in with your Steinberg ID, there’s no need to remain connected to the internet constantly to use your software: after you have activated, you can run offline, completely disconnected from the internet, in perpetuity."


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## Zedcars (Jan 7, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I'm not excited about re-downloading all of my VSL Libraries, but there is no way around this.



You can buy their USB hard drive(s). You have to add anything from the Synchron collection into your basket then when you view your basket you can add the Synchron hard drive and delete the library you added. Unfortunately you have to pay separately for the VI hard drive. Same process to buy that (add a VI library to basket etc).






It’s not recommended you use either of them for streaming, only for easily transferring, reinstalling or backup purposes.


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## muziksculp (Jan 7, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> You can buy their USB hard drive(s). You have to add anything from the Synchron collection into your basket then when you view your basket you can add the Synchron hard drive and delete the library you added. Unfortunately you have to pay separately for the VI hard drive. Same process to buy that (add a VI library to basket etc).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. , but I will most likely just download them gradually, it will take some time to get them all downloaded. I just have to be patient, and deal with this transition. Also their new download manager might be faster, and need less steps to get them downloaded.


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## Hendrixon (Jan 8, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> I hate machine licenses. I always forget to remove them. It's okay if I didn't format the old drive, but if the drive died? Yeah, gone. Except Toontrack and Plugin Alliance which let you control from the website.


What do you mean by "machine licensees"? the option for local iLok (as opposed to cloud)?

I had some libs on cloud and couple of months ago, for unknown reason (internet was working fine), the connection to the cloud fluctuated for several hours. in mid project some of my plugs and libs got blocked  

Once the connection got stable, I moved everything to the local option.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> What do you mean by "machine licensees"? the option for local iLok (as opposed to cloud)?


The license is activated to the machine…


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## dzilizzi (Jan 8, 2022)

A local license is locked to your machine, so a machine license.


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## Hendrixon (Jan 8, 2022)

easyrider said:


> The license is activated to the machine…





dzilizzi said:


> A local license is locked to your machine, so a machine license.


So its tied to the machine, but you said "the disk".
And what is a "machine"? the cpu? cpu+mobo? cpu+nic?


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## rnb_2 (Jan 8, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> So its tied to the machine, but you said "the disk".
> And what is a "machine"? the cpu? cpu+mobo? cpu+nic?


In a way, "all of the above". It's like a fingerprint of your computer, but stored on the system drive (where else could it be?) in a way that copying it to another computer (or disk) will render it unusable.


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## Hendrixon (Jan 8, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> In a way, "all of the above". It's like a fingerprint of your computer, but stored on the system drive (where else could it be?) in a way that copying it to another computer (or disk) will render it unusable.


The pc fingerprint, that's logical, but to store that on a local disk? I don't get it, doesn't make sense. iLok's database should have that fingerprint and anytime the manager process needs/wants to validate the licenses, it should generate a current fingerprint of the pc and have that challenge the database record.

Losing a disk shouldn't be a factor if you have the whole pc.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> The pc fingerprint, that's logical, but to store that on a local disk? I don't get it, doesn't make sense. iLok's database should have that fingerprint and anytime the manager process needs/wants to validate the licenses, it should generate a current fingerprint of the pc and have that challenge the database record.
> 
> Losing a disk shouldn't be a factor if you have the whole pc.


Serial number and firmware would be different to the old machine ID if installing a new Hardrive.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 8, 2022)

Has VSL confirmed iLok Cloud licensing?

Some developers (EW Opus) do not support iLok Cloud.


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## rnb_2 (Jan 8, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Has VSL confirmed iLok Cloud licensing?
> 
> Some developers (EW Opus) do not support iLok Cloud.


Yes, VSL is definitely doing dongle and iLok Cloud.


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## rnb_2 (Jan 8, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> The pc fingerprint, that's logical, but to store that on a local disk? I don't get it, doesn't make sense. iLok's database should have that fingerprint and anytime the manager process needs/wants to validate the licenses, it should generate a current fingerprint of the pc and have that challenge the database record.
> 
> Losing a disk shouldn't be a factor if you have the whole pc.


So, if "iLok's database" has to be available whenever you run the software, why not use iLok Cloud and avoid the fingerprint altogether?


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 8, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Yes, VSL is definitely doing dongle and iLok Cloud.


this will be very cool - i just bought a 2nd VEP7 license and eLicenser dongle.

will be sweet to have 4 VEP7 licenses.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> this will be very cool - i just bought a 2nd VEP7 license and eLicenser dongle.
> 
> will be sweet to have 4 VEP7 licenses.


You still only get one licence…

You either use the cloud OR dongle.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 8, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> So, if "iLok's database" has to be available whenever you run the software, why not use iLok Cloud and avoid the fingerprint altogether?


You have to be online. Not all studios have their computers online. Plus there have been issues when being unable to connect will make your instruments unusable in the middle of a session. As in they just worked and now they don't. If you don't have a great internet connection, I wouldn't bother.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 8, 2022)

easyrider said:


> You still only get one licence…
> 
> You either use the cloud OR dongle


from what I understand,

I currently have 2 VEP7 licenses on 2 eLicenser dongles.

When VSL switches to iLok, my 2 current VEP7 licenses will move to iLok.

But, I get to keep and use the eLicenser licenses until the dongles fail.

4 licenses.

Or am I misunderstanding the process?

How and why would I go from 2 current licenses to only 1?


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## rnb_2 (Jan 8, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> You have to be online. Not all studios have their computers online. Plus there have been issues when being unable to connect will make your instruments unusable in the middle of a session. As in they just worked and now they don't. If you don't have a great internet connection, I wouldn't bother.


I'm just talking about this in conjunction with the assertion that a machine license shouldn't be stored locally (and be vulnerable to machine failure), but in "iLok's database", which could then be queried for authorization. An internet connection would be required for that, as well.


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## Zanshin (Jan 8, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> from what I understand,
> 
> I currently have 2 VEP7 licenses on 2 eLicenser dongles.
> 
> ...


You have two licenses. Each can only be used one at a time no matter how many activations you might be allowed at a time. License vs activation. Two different things. I don’t work for VSL, but that is how it’s read in other similar situations.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> from what I understand,
> 
> I currently have 2 VEP7 licenses on 2 eLicenser dongles.
> 
> ...


There will be one iLok license for each VSL eLicenser license, and you can decide whether you'd like to store it on an iLok key or in the iLok cloud (and move it around as you like).


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 8, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> You have two licenses. Each can only be used one at a time no matter how many activations you might be allowed at a time. License vs activation. Two different things. I don’t work for VSL, but that is how it’s read in other similar situations.


this is worthwhile clearing up.

what "other similar situations" ?

scenario:

i have 4 PCs: PC1, PC2, PC3, and PC4.

PC1 and PC2 each have an eLicenser dongle with my current VEP7 licenses.

Wnen VSL switches to iLok, to add my licenses to iLok (Cloud or dongle) I will need to download and install VEP7 on PC3 and PC4.

I assume I would then activate the licenses on PC3 and PC4 with iLok Cloud while keeping the eLicenser licenses on PC1 and PC2.

Are you saying the VSL Activation will not let me do this since the 2 licenses are activated on PC1 and PC2?

this is not what I have heard.

VSL has been saying we can keep our eLicenser licenses after moving to iLok.

no?


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 8, 2022)

easyrider said:


> There will be one iLok license for each VSL eLicenser license, and you can decide whether you'd like to store it on an iLok key or in the iLok cloud (and move it around as you like).


i understand that, not what I am referring to.


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i understand that, not what I am referring to.








MISSION COMPLETED: Moving from eLicenser to iLok - Synchron Libraries - FORUMS - Vienna Symphonic Library


No description




www.vsl.co.at


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 8, 2022)

easyrider said:


> MISSION COMPLETED: Moving from eLicenser to iLok - Synchron Libraries - FORUMS - Vienna Symphonic Library
> 
> 
> No description
> ...


exactly:


CONTINUED SERVICE: You’ll be able to continue to use the ViennaKey/eLicenser USB key as well as the eLicenser Control Center for as long as it is working on your computers’ operating systems. Your licenses are safe and perpetual. Steinberg will keep the eLicenser license server available as long as possible, so you’ll be able to move licenses between eLicenser USB keys and will receive replacement licenses in case of damage, theft or loss of your eLicenser key (for free if you have a valid Vienna Protection Plan) well beyond the time when the iLok system is already available to you.

For every registered product in your VSL account, you will receive an iLok license. You will NOT be asked to return or delete any of your existing licenses on the eLicenser.
so, the big question is

is it either/or?

either eLicenser OR iLok?

if so, i completely misunderstood how the above is written


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## easyrider (Jan 8, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> exactly:
> 
> 
> CONTINUED SERVICE: You’ll be able to continue to use the ViennaKey/eLicenser USB key as well as the eLicenser Control Center for as long as it is working on your computers’ operating systems. Your licenses are safe and perpetual. Steinberg will keep the eLicenser license server available as long as possible, so you’ll be able to move licenses between eLicenser USB keys and will receive replacement licenses in case of damage, theft or loss of your eLicenser key (for free if you have a valid Vienna Protection Plan) well beyond the time when the iLok system is already available to you.
> ...


Looks like you can use them until Steinberg turn the server off then.
Maybe @Ben can clarify. 😎


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## Zanshin (Jan 8, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> this is worthwhile clearing up.


I agree 

If you were right it'd be awesome. For example, why would I upgrade to MIR Pro from Mir 24? I could run one MIR 24 off my e-lic and one off my iLok for 48 instances. But the fact is I purchased a license for one instance, not two so I assume I won't be able to do this?

We will have separate executables, and separate libraries for iLok . I'll be surprised if you can connect to an iLok VEP server and an e-Lic server at the same time. That seems like an easy way for them to deal with the concurrent license issue.

BTW I don't think you need a dongle for the server only VEP machine? Although you must know more about VEP than me.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 8, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I agree
> 
> BTW I don't think you need a dongle for the server only VEP machine? Although you must know more about VEP than me.


Yes, the PCs running VEP7 Server require the license.

My current situation:

PC1 runs my DAW (where VEP7 plugins are instantiated) AND 1 license of VEP7 Server (dongleized)

while

PC2 (networked) only runs a licensed VEP7 Server (donglified).


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## Ben (Jan 9, 2022)

Just to clarify: you will not be able to mix iLok and eLicenser VEP on a system, or connect between these. 
Also, you can have only iLok or the eLicenser variant of a same player running at the same time on a machine. For example it's not possible to use eLicenser Synchron Pianos and iLok Synchron Pianos on the same system. To switch between these variants you have to reinstall the sample player.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 9, 2022)

Ben said:


> Just to clarify: you will not be able to mix iLok and eLicenser VEP on a system, or connect between these.
> Also, you can have only iLok or the eLicenser variant of a same player running at the same time on a machine. For example it's not possible to use eLicenser Synchron Pianos and iLok Synchron Pianos on the same system. To switch between these variants you have to reinstall the sample player.


Thank you.


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## Hendrixon (Jan 9, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> So, if "iLok's database" has to be available whenever you run the software, why not use iLok Cloud and avoid the fingerprint altogether?


The cloud is not bound to the machine so no hardware ID handshake is needed, but you need to be online all the time. the thing is couple of months ago, at mid session, all the cloud fx stopped working. for several hours the background iLok process connected and lost the connection again and again.
I'm on a fiber connection, stable as a rock, it worked fine during this period.

After that happened I moved all licenses to the local machine.
I have no problem with machine ID as long as the ID is based on the machine in some accumulated way. but to have this tied to a single storage media? a part that is most prone to failures and upgrades is just wrong.

On my older pc I have the same mobo since 2009 and since then I only upgraded the cpu in 2014.
Nics, one died and was replaced, later added a second one... since 2009.
Compared to those parts, disks fail and get changed like socks.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 9, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> but to have this tied to a single storage media? a part that is most prone to failures and upgrades is just wrong.


i keep hearing about dongle failures.

are there hard numbers regarding mechanical/electrical dongle failures from normal use? 

not including damage from impact or twisting or other mechanical stresses.

i'm not seeing how such a simple device could fail over time as much as it is talked about here and on other forums.

i can be convinced, though.


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## Ben (Jan 9, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i keep hearing about dongle failures.
> 
> are there hard numbers regarding mechanical/electrical dongle failures from normal use?
> 
> ...


Not many. I don't have hard numbers, our support team handles these things, but I don't think it's more then 1 per 1-2 years that is RMA'ed to us. And even then in most cases it's physical damage that caused the eLicenser to stop working.


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## rnb_2 (Jan 9, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> The cloud is not bound to the machine so no hardware ID handshake is needed, but you need to be online all the time. the thing is couple of months ago, at mid session, all the cloud fx stopped working. for several hours the background iLok process connected and lost the connection again and again.
> I'm on a fiber connection, stable as a rock, it worked fine during this period.
> 
> After that happened I moved all licenses to the local machine.
> ...


But where do you keep the machine ID, if not on the system hard drive? If that drive fails, the ID has to be regenerated, and in a way that doesn't allow someone to just cycle hard drives through a computer, generating valid machine IDs for each, and getting as many licenses as they desire.


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## rnb_2 (Jan 9, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i keep hearing about dongle failures.
> 
> are there hard numbers regarding mechanical/electrical dongle failures from normal use?
> 
> ...


I know that the eLicenser dongle has a bit of a reputation for physical fragility (though @Ben would have access to the actual numbers, and they seem to be low), but the iLok key is much more robust.


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## Hendrixon (Jan 9, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> But where do you keep the machine ID, if not on the system hard drive? If that drive fails, the ID has to be regenerated, and in a way that doesn't allow someone to just cycle hard drives through a computer, generating valid machine IDs for each, and getting as many licenses as they desire.


The client doesn't need a local ID record binary, it means nothing as he/she has the hardware  
The process on the client machine DOES need to generate a new ID every time it wants/needs to authenticate.
That way the authenticating server will know if someone tries to load the software on an unauthorized pc. 
With the disk bound? where ever just the disk is, the software will work. its just the same as a dongle.


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## Ben (Jan 9, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> With the disk bound? where ever just the disk is, the software will work. its just the same as a dongle.


Disclaimer: I have no idea what components iLok machine activation uses, as well as how it works in detail.

Nope, only very simple copy protection systems use only the hard drives serial for reference. Most protection systems that are stored on your drive and use some kind of hardware fingerprint do so by also incorporating the mainboard's and/or CPU's serial numbers to create a unique fingerprint.
Change one of the components that are used to create the fingerprint, and you have to re-authenticate.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 9, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i keep hearing about dongle failures.
> 
> are there hard numbers regarding mechanical/electrical dongle failures from normal use?
> 
> ...


I've never had a dongle fail. I do have all my dongle on a four port hub so the hub plugs into the computer, not the dongle. The dongles rarely get unplugged. But generally, if you aren't moving it around a lot, it is rare it gets damaged. My current iLok is at least 6 years old, probably older. 
If you are on a laptop, I really recommend using a hub to attach. There's less chance of damage by knocking into it. With a desktop, you can plug it in the back and it should be safe from accidental knocks.


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## muziksculp (Jan 9, 2022)

I would most likely get a new second iLok2 for VSL the products I have, and gradually transition to the new VSL System, when it's ready.

Q. @Ben,

Can we expect the transition of VSL to iLok to happen this month ? or is it too early yet ?

Thanks.


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## Ben (Jan 9, 2022)

No, it will not happen this month (January).


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## muziksculp (Jan 9, 2022)

Ben said:


> No, it will not happen this month (January).


Thanks. 

I just purchased a healthy number of VSL Synchron Percussion Libraries, but I haven't installed them yet, so I might just wait for the transition to iLok to happen, then install them, instead of deleting them, and re-installing them via the new VSL iLok Installation Manager.


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## Hendrixon (Jan 9, 2022)

Ben said:


> Disclaimer: I have no idea what components iLok machine activation uses, as well as how it works in detail.
> 
> Nope, only very simple copy protection systems use only the hard drives serial for reference. Most protection systems that are stored on your drive and use some kind of hardware fingerprint do so by also incorporating the mainboard's and/or CPU's serial numbers to create a unique fingerprint.
> Change one of the components that are used to create the fingerprint, and you have to re-authenticate.


Exactly my point, you can't "lose everything" if your disk goes belly up.
That was maybe the protection logic in 2002


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## jcrosby (Jan 9, 2022)

Ben said:


> No, it will not happen this month (January).


Hey @Ben will Vienna Suite and VEP be rolled out at the same time, or will the transition of products be staggered?


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## smellypants (Jan 9, 2022)

Ben said:


> No, it will not happen this month (January).


February? I wanna get it out the way... Its gonna take me weeks to re download everything 😈


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 9, 2022)

the used market for eLicenser dongles will be amazing!


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## Virtuoso (Jan 9, 2022)

Ben said:


> Just to clarify: you will not be able to mix iLok and eLicenser VEP on a system, or *connect between these*.


That's a blow - I was hoping to be able to move my eLicenser to a slave VEP machine while I keep the iLok on my master to be able to run any library from any machine as each project demands.

I can do this already with libraries/instruments from pretty much every other developer as they either provide multiple activations (eg Orchestral Tools, Spitfire Audio, UVI, Softube, Synthogy, IK, Arturia, PA, Toontrack etc), or don't have any restrictions on activations (Native Instruments, u-He, Spectrasonics, Ujam etc).

Can you say whether VSL be giving multiple iLok activations and if so, how many?


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## heisenberg (Jan 10, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> I was hoping to be able to move my eLicenser to a slave VEP machine while I keep the iLok on my master to be able to run any library from any machine as each project demands.
> 
> I can do this already with libraries/instruments from pretty much every other developer as they either provide multiple activations <snip>
> 
> Can you say whether VSL be giving multiple iLok activations and if so, how many?


This whole process of moving to iLok for users is not going to be pleasant at all, particularly for those of us that are heavily invested in VSL libraries/instruments.

I get the rationale as to why we have to redownload everything but it almost requires users to do this on a new machine, if it is not going to be seriously disruptive to the users that have gone headfirst into the VSL ecosystem. There is also the issue of working with existing templates and jobs. I haven't quite got my head around how someone is going to work on job that started before the transition to iLok and they have to go back into something they have created after they start moving their production equipment over to their rig that has been moved over to an iLok only based VSL environment. Given the complexity of people who run VSL based rigs with MIR Pro, VEPro Templates coming out the yinyang and their DAW of choice.

I am confident they at VSL have been stress testing all of this stuff and have a myriad of different rigs going through this process to see how all this is going to shake down. On a cursory look at this, I find it difficult to imagine how they are going to pull this off without having the ability of running both an eLicenser on one machine and an iLok on the other(s) with the individual in question.


----------



## Ben (Jan 10, 2022)

heisenberg said:


> This whole process of moving to iLok for users is not going to be pleasant at all, particularly for those of us that are heavily invested in VSL libraries/instruments.
> 
> I get the rationale as to why we have to redownload everything but it almost requires users to do this on a new machine, if it is not going to be seriously disruptive to the users that have gone headfirst into the VSL ecosystem. There is also the issue of working with existing templates and jobs. I haven't quite got my head around how someone is going to work on job that started before the transition to iLok and they have to go back into something they have created after they start moving their production equipment over to their rig that has been moved over to an iLok only based VSL environment. Given the complexity of people who run VSL based rigs with MIR Pro, VEPro Templates coming out the yinyang and their DAW of choice.
> 
> I am confident they at VSL have been stress testing all of this stuff and have a myriad of different rigs going through this process to see how all this is going to shake down. On a cursory look at this, I find it difficult to imagine how they are going to pull this off without having the ability of running both an eLicenser on one machine and an iLok on the other(s) with the individual in question.


1. You can start the transition at any point. There is no need to transition on day one, your eLicenser will keep working until it breaks.
2. If you have the space on your drive you can download and install all libraries while working with the old ones. The only disruption that must happen is the update of the sample player. 
This also means you will be able to first move you Synchron Pianos, then VI libraries, then the Synchron libraries... 
3. As long as the samples are not deleted yet, rolling back to eLicenser is simply a reinstall of the sample player. Same goes for the software.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 10, 2022)

This move is less enticing than I previously thought.

My misunderstanding, obviously. I'm glad I didn't buy more than just another VEP7 license with this error in mind.

I had to buy another eLicenser dongle for a 2nd VEP7. Now I have to buy another iLok for it eventually.

And I bought the VSL jnsurance

That and Zero Down Time with iLok.

!!!

At this point, I'm in no rush to move to iLok with my VSL libraries and software.

I probably won't until eLicenser death is given a date.


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## Ben (Jan 10, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> I probably won't until eLicenser death is given a date.


eLicenser will work as long as the software runs on the OS you are using and the eLicenser key doesn't break.
Still, we will no longer update any eLicenser based software, and also no longer send you eLicenser license activation keys when buying a new product once the transition has happened.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 10, 2022)

Ben said:


> eLicenser will work as long as the software runs on the OS you are using and the eLicenser key doesn't break.
> Still, we will no longer update any eLicenser based software, and also no longer send you eLicenser license activation keys when buying a new product once the transition has happened.


loud and clear.


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## Lee Blaske (Jan 14, 2022)

Wow, I own almost everything VSL makes. This is really going to be a LOT of work!


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## MelodicAdagio (Jan 14, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> Wow, I own almost everything VSL makes. This is really going to be a LOT of work!


I'm not looking forward to re-downloading all of mine either. I don't have nearly as much as you, but at 2.5TB of VSL stuff, it's still a lot.


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## Ben (Jan 15, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> Wow, I own almost everything VSL makes. This is really going to be a LOT of work!


We work on a new download assistant, so you will not have any work.


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## khollister (Jan 15, 2022)

Ben said:


> We work on a new download assistant, so you will not have any work.


I'm assuming that the new downloader will continue to permit a download location independent from the install location so we can download to a secondary HDD before installing onto the primary SSD?

This workflow would also require you maintain the ability to separate downloading from installation/activation as per the current downloader.


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## Ben (Jan 15, 2022)

khollister said:


> I'm assuming that the new downloader will continue to permit a download location independent from the install location so we can download to a secondary HDD before installing onto the primary SSD?


Yes. You can choose the download directory independet of the installation location, and you can also choose to either always use default locations or select from a list of previously used locations / select a new location.
We try to make it as easy to use as possible.



khollister said:


> This workflow would also require you maintain the ability to separate downloading from installation/activation as per the current downloader.


The activation will happen inside the iLok app. Currently we have no integration of this kind added to the downloader, but we might add such a feature in a future update.
If you have a product registered in your VSL account, you can simply download and install it. Of course, in order to use it a valid license must be present on your iLok Cloud or iLok key.


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## yellow_lupine (Mar 17, 2022)

It looks like the transition to iLok will happen very soon !!


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## mixedmoods (Mar 17, 2022)

Amazing!
I was hoping this will happen these days as I saw that PACE updated their Licence tool for M1 finally yesterday. Also Softube released their M1 updates right after this. Let's hope for Synchron M1 players finally!


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

mixedmoods said:


> Amazing!
> I was hoping this will happen these days as I saw that PACE updated their Licence tool for M1 finally yesterday. Also Softube released their M1 updates right after this. Let's hope for Synchron M1 players finally!


No M1 at initial release, but you should try to use your scrollwheel on the Website-Offline Page


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## mrfabzzz (Mar 17, 2022)

THIS IS AWESOME 



I thought of writing several times to the support because the installation was painful, it was difficult to know if my librairies required an update, it seems solved now, a big YES! Hope we can a install library in one/few click (without wizard)

And let's be crazy, maybe the compression is a little less exaggerated now  (installation time were crazy)


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## holywilly (Mar 17, 2022)

Is the website finally mobile friendly?


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

mrfabzzz said:


> Hope we can a install library in one/few click (without wizard)


Yes, I recommend to use the "Bulk install" button on top if you want to downlaod many libraries at once.



mrfabzzz said:


> And let's be crazy, maybe the compression is a little less exaggerated now  (installation time were crazy)


Installation times should be slightly improved, but you don't have to do anything. You just select the libraries you want and click on "download". Everything else gets done for you by the new downloader, while you can grab a coffee (or go for a walk - depending on the internet connection).


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Is the website finally mobile friendly?


one step at a time...


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## FireGS (Mar 17, 2022)

Ben said:


> Everything else gets done for you by the new downloader, while you can grab a coffee (or go for a walk - *depending on the internet connection*).


Or depending on the amount of samples you've bought!


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## xanderscores (Mar 17, 2022)

FireGS said:


> Or depending on the amount of samples you've bought!


In my case it won't be many unless the site will be up in time for me to get the Synchron Woodwinds for the special price. Very strange that the site changes on the last day of an offer...


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

xanderscores said:


> In my case it won't be many unless the site will be up in time for me to get the Synchron Woodwinds for the special price. Very strange that the site changes on the last day of an offer...


Don't worry, the sale will continue + a few other things will be on sale (so I heard )


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## wcreed51 (Mar 17, 2022)

Will there be an install option to _replace _the current sample content, without needing the space to do a separate download?


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

wcreed51 said:


> Will there be an install option to _replace _the current sample content, without needing the space to do a separate download?


There is an eLicenser libraries uninstaller in the menu. But you can also manually uninstall your eLicenser based libraries.


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## Zanshin (Mar 17, 2022)

Ben said:


> No M1 at initial release, but you should try to use your scrollwheel on the Website-Offline Page


I tried using my CSI image enhancing software on the screenshot but I don't see sordinos listed anywhere under Synchron... oh well. Still very exciting!

Congrats Ben. A ton of work I bet


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## mixedmoods (Mar 17, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I tried using my CSI image enhancing software on the screenshot but I don't see sordinos listed anywhere under Synchron... oh well. Still very exciting!
> 
> Congrats Ben. A ton of work I bet


Also MIR Pro is not in the list of software (but the room packs are). Maybe this will still need E-Licenser until MIR 3D will be out? Hmmmm ...


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## emilio_n (Mar 17, 2022)

The perfect moment to use all my vouchers! Here we go!
The only bad news is that I need to wait a month and a half for the new computer. Mmm, Actually this is ok. Enough time for VSL to make the Synchron Player AS compatible! 

Congrats Ben and the rest of the team. I can imagine how crazy is a project like this.


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## mixedmoods (Mar 17, 2022)

The Site is online now.
Discounts on all Products!!


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Congrats Ben. A ton of work I bet


Thanks! And yes, it was 



Zanshin said:


> I don't see sordinos listed anywhere under Synchron


Maybe you will be happy to see a new Signature Preset in the Synchron Strings Pro library (Elite Strings variant will follow via update in a while).
Oh, yes, Synchron Strings Pro has now also Signature Presets, similar to those of the Elite Strings.


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

mixedmoods said:


> Also MIR Pro is not in the list of software (but the room packs are). Maybe this will still need E-Licenser until MIR 3D will be out? Hmmmm ...


For the Standalone yes. VEP has it already integrated as iLok version.


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## emilio_n (Mar 17, 2022)

Yuhuuuu!


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## jonathanwright (Mar 17, 2022)

So am I right in thinking we have to wait for an invitation before we can transfer our licenses and download the new assistant?


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## Zanshin (Mar 17, 2022)

jonathanwright said:


> So am I right in thinking we have to wait for an invitation before we can transfer our licenses and download the new assistant?


Yes.

EDIT: Well you can download the new assistant now but you have to wait for your licenses to transferred.


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## FireGS (Mar 17, 2022)

I think if you buy something new, right now, it grants you access to iLok, cause I'm in. >_>


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## wcreed51 (Mar 17, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Yes.
> 
> EDIT: Well you can download the new assistant now but you have to wait for your licenses to transferred.


Is that why I'm getting this error?


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## Zanshin (Mar 17, 2022)

wcreed51 said:


> Is that why I'm getting this error?


Dang, I'm not sure.


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## RMH (Mar 17, 2022)

@Ben ! What does this mean?
Do I have to wait until the deposit button is activated?


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

wcreed51 said:


> Is that why I'm getting this error?


If you have an iLok test account you can't use it to store your VSL licenses to it. You need to create a new account. If you think this has to be a mistake, please contact [email protected] and my colleagues will look into this.


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

RMH said:


> @Ben ! What does this mean?
> Do I have to wait until the deposit button is activated?


Yes


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## RMH (Mar 17, 2022)

Ben said:


> Yes


Thank you!


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## YaniDee (Mar 17, 2022)

It seems we have to pick up bits and pieces of info here and there..I may have missed something but has VSL provided a FAQ or clear info on the procedure for converting the licenses ?


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

YaniDee said:


> It seems we have to pick up bits and pieces of info here and there..I may have missed something but is there a FAQ or clear info on the procedure for converting the licenses ?


There is: https://www.vsl.info/tutorials/faqs/ilok

In short: You will get an email as son as your account is ready to transition with details what to do.


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## PhilA (Mar 17, 2022)

Dumb question do you have trials available since Ilok supports temp license for this purpose?
Especially interested in the Pianos.


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

PhilA said:


> Dumb question do you have trials available since Ilok supports temp license for this purpose?
> Especially interested in the Pianos.


We always offer demo licenses for all our paid software, and sometimes even library demos.


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## PhilA (Mar 17, 2022)

Ben said:


> We always offer demo licenses for all our paid software, and sometimes even library demos.


That's Great how does one go about accessing the Trial versions?


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

PhilA said:


> That's Great how does one go about accessing the Trial versions?


I guess demos are temporarly disabled until the servers could catch up. Usually it's as simple as going to the product page and clicking on the 30 days demo button below the price box.


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## PhilA (Mar 17, 2022)

Ah That's great I'll be patient


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## synergy543 (Mar 17, 2022)

Dear Ben, I know you're busy answering iLok questions but can I buy you a coffee? In fact, would you like a whole bunch of coffees? (*coffee has been shown to have many benefits) Maybe one every day? If so, then this offer is for you! And its totally free!

I want to make a purchase with a voucher but it ends in 95 euros and I can't use my 100 voucher unless I can find an item to add. If you can add a "Coffee for Ben" item to purchase I'd really appreciate it. Then I can get my library and you can have a free coffee!

And if you get enough of these (which I'm sure you will), then maybe you'll kindly share a few with Paul and some of the others too? Its a total win-win for all of us. So why not grab your free coffee today?

*https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/coffee-new-health-food


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

@synergy543 Go and get the VI Vienna Whistler - it's one of the most fun libraries to play around!


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## rrichard63 (Mar 17, 2022)

I've read the information on the website several times and I'm still not 100% clear on two things.

(1) If I enter my iLok user ID and convert my licenses now, can I continue to use the eLicenser versions during the (long) period of time it will take to redownload everything? In other words, are both types of licenses active in parallel?

(2) If not, can I convert one or some licenses to iLok with converting the rest immediately? For example, I bought Synchron Harp on sale but have not downloaded the eLicenser player and samples, because I knew they would be replaced soon. Can I download and use the iLok versions now and continue to use the eLicenser versions of other products?

Thanks in advance.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 17, 2022)

As far as I can tell, the "store-wide discounts on all of our products" do not apply to the Vienna Hard Drives.

This transition is either going to cost me 195 euros plus tax and shipping, or it's going to be an almost unbearable hassle.


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> (1) If I enter my iLok user ID and convert my licenses now, can I continue to use the eLicenser versions during the (long) period of time it will take to redownload everything? In other words, are both types of licenses active in parallel?


You can use your elicenser licenses as long as th eLicenser key is working and the Control Center runs on your OS


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## Frederick (Mar 17, 2022)

I vote for this being the most annoying delivery of a new product ever. I prefer Orchestral Tools' SINE update of the Berlin Mains over this anytime anywhere. So there you are with 72 licenses to deposit, but no green button... And no-one at VSL thought that would better be mentioned in the steps about upgrading to iLok? People who buy something now are first in line? Am I now supposed to be triggered to buy something new? I'm not buying anything from VSL until the Berlin Mains are fully functional. You wait for that VSL!


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## synergy543 (Mar 17, 2022)

Ben said:


> @synergy543 Go and get the VI Vienna Whistler - it's one of the most fun libraries to play around!


Coffee Ben. Coffee. In 5 Euro cups.

I already have Whistler.


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

@Frederick 
1. You don't have to move NOW, no one is forcing you to do so.
2. All the information, including the entire procedure, is written down there in the links I provided, and if you don't like to read these are also explained in the videos I linked. 

I don't get what should be annoying about this, especially since we ask everyone to have patience until you get the transition mail, so everyone is having a good experience. 
We no longer sell eLicenser products, so we have to migrate these accounts, so the users can continue to use the software they own and also just bought.


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## dcoscina (Mar 17, 2022)

I registered my ilok to my account without getting the notification. I hope I didn't screw anything up...


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## rrichard63 (Mar 17, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> I registered my ilok to my account without getting the notification. I hope I didn't screw anything up...


Apparently this is to be expected. You will get notified when it's your turn. I will get notified when it's my turn. Etc.


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## dcoscina (Mar 17, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Apparently this is to be expected. You will get notified when it's your turn. I will get notified when it's my turn. Etc.


oh yes I figured as much. I downloaded the Vienna Assistant as well and I have been checking the status but I understand this is a massive change and I figure I will get notified once they get to my stuff. And I have a lot....


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## rrichard63 (Mar 17, 2022)

Ben said:


> You can use your elicenser licenses as long as th eLicenser key is working and the Control Center runs on your OS


Even though the licenses are also on my iLok?


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## UDun (Mar 17, 2022)

User defined presets (Synchron Player, Harp, Pianos) are going to work with no change once we re-download all players and libraries ?


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## FireGS (Mar 17, 2022)

UDun said:


> User defined presets (Synchron Player, Harp, Pianos) are going to work with no change once we re-download all players and libraries ?


Mine seemed to carry over. <3


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Even though the licenses are also on my iLok?


Yes


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

UDun said:


> User defined presets (Synchron Player, Harp, Pianos) are going to work with no change once we re-download all players and libraries ?


Yes!


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## UDun (Mar 17, 2022)

Super ! Thanks Ben !


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## smellypants (Mar 17, 2022)

Ben said:


> Yes!


Hey Ben are there new expression maps, or do the old ones still work fine?

Thanks


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

smellypants said:


> Hey Ben are there new expression maps, or do the old ones still work fine?
> 
> Thanks


The old ones will work just fine!


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## Buz (Mar 17, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Even though the licenses are also on my iLok?





Ben said:


> Yes


Does this mean we could basically reserve iLok as an insurance policy for when the eLicenser breaks? I understand that means no updates, but for huge libraries which have already seen fixes that seems a practical pathway.


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## Ben (Mar 17, 2022)

Buz said:


> Does this mean we could basically reserve iLok as an insurance policy for when the eLicenser breaks? I understand that means no updates, but for huge libraries which have already seen fixes that seems a practical pathway.


Also, you will not be able to use future products, as we will only release iLok based products and libraries from now on. So you will miss out over time.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 17, 2022)

Back in January, in another thread, I asked



rrichard63 said:


> If I recall correctly, somewhere in the first 31 pages of this thread there is a statement about why VSL is changing the data file format so that we have to re-download everything. But I can't find that post now. Can someone link to it? Thanks in advance!



to which Ben replied, "I can't say much more".



Ben said:


> We switch over to iLok
> I can't say much more, but the content needs to be re-downloaded.



Here was my response at that time:



rrichard63 said:


> Without any other information, I have to assume that implementing IP protection is done entirely within the player software and its communication with a dongle and/or cloud database and/or machine identifiers. The files containing the sample data have nothing to do with it.
> 
> I can think of two possible reasons why what I just said would not be true. One is that the sample data is, in fact, part of the protection scheme. For example, maybe the sample file format is encrypted using the license number as an encryption key. Even then, you would think that VSL could work out a means of getting from the new iLok license key to the old eLicenser key needed to unlock the data.
> 
> ...


There was no further discussion of this aspect of the situation.

I still have no clue *why* the change to iLok requires all new sample files. Before I either (1) spend well over $200, or (2) redownload well over a terabyte of samples, I need to know *why* this is the only way VSL could have implemented iLok. Thank you.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 17, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> I still have no clue *why* the change to iLok requires all new sample files. Before I either (1) spend well over $200, or (2) redownload well over a terabyte of samples, I need to know *why* this is the only way VSL could have implemented iLok. Thank you.



I imagine it is one of the reasons you already laid out - either the copy protection scheme was integrated into the samples for eLicenser or there was another reason related to how the eLicenser protection on the playback software requires samples to be constructed. Either way, this is not public information and VSL may want to keep it that way for a variety of reasons.

Will the answer to either change your decision? What if the answer was "yes, the previous samples had copy protection embedded", what would you do vs. if the answer was "no"? Your existing downloads will continue to work just as they have with your eLicenser. No need to re-download anything just to use iLok if it is such a hassle for you.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 17, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Will the answer to either change your decision?



The substance of the answer probably won't change my decision. What will change my decision is getting any explanation at all versus being kept in the dark.



ALittleNightMusic said:


> No need to re-download anything just to use iLok if it is such a hassle for you.



Not quite true. If I buy any new VSL libraries, I will have to migrate my old ones that use the same player in order to use the new ones. Also, any future bug fixes or feature upgrades will only be available for the iLok versions of the players.


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## EgM (Mar 17, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> I still have no clue *why* the change to iLok requires all new sample files. Before I either (1) spend well over $200, or (2) redownload well over a terabyte of samples, I need to know *why* this is the only way VSL could have implemented iLok. Thank you.


It's quite simple, the samples are tied to the copy protection they are using. If downloading all the samples is such a problem for you (which you've said like 3 times already) just don't do anything!

Your eLicenser will keep working man!

In the future, if you ever want to migrate to iLok and download all the content again THEN you can order the hard drive or take a drive somewhere where there's internet.

I mean we're in 2022! All the other sample developers (EW/OT/SA,etc) use download as their main delivery. Stop complaining about this already, everyone in the world can download this easy.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 17, 2022)

EgM said:


> the samples are tied to the copy protection they are using


If that's true, it reflects a very bad design choice by VSL -- not today, but years ago when they first designed their eLicenser integration. VSL hasn't made a lot of other bad design decisions -- in every other respect their software is very good -- so I would find this one very peculiar.


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## Zanshin (Mar 17, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> If that's true, it reflects a very bad design choice by VSL -- not today, but years ago when they first designed their eLicenser integration. VSL hasn't made a lot of other bad design decisions -- in every other respect their software is very good -- so I would find this one very peculiar.


I empathize Richard, I do, but it's become sour grapes at this point. But hey, you keep flogging that dead horse if it really makes it feel better ...


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## Ben (Mar 18, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> If that's true, it reflects a very bad design choice by VSL -- not today, but years ago when they first designed their eLicenser integration. VSL hasn't made a lot of other bad design decisions -- in every other respect their software is very good -- so I would find this one very peculiar.


This bad decision was the thing that safed the company from having to shut down business  
The very first product had no copy protection - there is a reason why this was changed pretty quickly.


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## EgM (Mar 18, 2022)

Installing stuff with Vienna Assistant is amazing and fast!!! If only all manufacturers were like this 

I assume it will also take care of software updates?


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## Ben (Mar 18, 2022)

EgM said:


> I assume it will also take care of software updates?


Yes, software and library updates!


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## holywilly (Mar 18, 2022)

Oh man, I’m still not able to transfer everything to ilok, I guess I’m still waiting in line?


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## rrichard63 (Mar 18, 2022)

Ben said:


> This bad decision was the thing that saved the company from having to shut down business
> The very first product had no copy protection - there is a reason why this was changed pretty quickly.


Thank you. This is the information I have been looking for since January.


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## Prockamanisc (Mar 18, 2022)

Yeah, I keep refreshing my page every hour or so, but I'm still not able to update. How long will this update take? A week? A month?


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## rnb_2 (Mar 18, 2022)

The new information at the top of the page is a bit worrying: "Please wait for our iLok confirmation email (in the next weeks)".


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## Robert_G (Mar 18, 2022)

Prockamanisc said:


> Yeah, I keep refreshing my page every hour or so, but I'm still not able to update. How long will this update take? A week? A month?


Just buy something and you get pushed to the front of the line


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## Zanshin (Mar 18, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> Just buy something and you get pushed to the front of the line



Best case is everything works like it did before you did the conversion to iLok. Worst case something doesn't work... like MIR in VEP is broken for example. The FOMO is a trap lol


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## khollister (Mar 18, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> Just buy something and you get pushed to the front of the line


That's what I did - decided I needed a contrabass clarinet to go with my Synchron and Synchron-ized Woodwinds so I bought the Synchronized single version. I'm also jonesing for the heckelphone.


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## John57 (Mar 18, 2022)

Ben said:


> Yes, software and library updates!


That is good news, since the old way was not easy to tell if the updates listed are needed, or I already had the updates and additional new free instruments are installed.


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## jsaras (Apr 7, 2022)

I did the conversion to iLok and I used the new Vienna Assistant which re-installed all my libraries again for some unknown reason. I've deleted the older versions as there's no sense in duplicative stuff cluttering my hard drive. I hope that wasn't a mistake.

I currentlyhave the updated SY-ized Special Edition and the original Special Edition (not updated/reinstalled) with Vienna Assistant yet). Apart from the Appassionata Strings Patch in SE, is there any reason to update and keep it on my drive?


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## Ben (Apr 7, 2022)

jsaras said:


> I did the conversion to iLok and I used the new Vienna Assistant which re-installed all my libraries again for some unknown reason. I've deleted the older versions as there's no sense in duplicative stuff cluttering my hard drive. I hope that wasn't a mistake.
> 
> I currentlyhave the updated SY-ized Special Edition and the original Special Edition (not updated/reinstalled) with Vienna Assistant yet). Apart from the Appassionata Strings Patch in SE, is there any reason to update and keep it on my drive?


You have to re-download the content for iLok. eLicenser libraries can't be used with iLok players and vice versa.


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## jsaras (Apr 7, 2022)

I still have the second question that I want answered. I currently have the updated SY-ized Special Edition and the original dry Special Edition (not updated/reinstalled) with Vienna Assistant yet). Apart from the Appassionata Strings Patch in SE, is there any reason to update the dry SE and keep it on my drive?


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## iMovieShout (Apr 8, 2022)

Ben said:


> Also, you will not be able to use future products, as we will only release iLok based products and libraries from now on. So you will miss out over time.


Seems like a very bad business decision to completely stop supporting VEPro on eLicenser. I cannot afford £500 to buy x12 new iLok dongles for no benefit. This seems ridiculous - I've known a lot of corporates make similar bad decisions in the past, and have lost many big ticket customers as a result. 

This seems like one of those instances!!


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## Michael Antrum (Apr 12, 2022)

jpb007.uk said:


> Seems like a very bad business decision to completely stop supporting VEPro on eLicenser. I cannot afford £500 to buy x12 new iLok dongles for no benefit. This seems ridiculous - I've known a lot of corporates make similar bad decisions in the past, and have lost many big ticket customers as a result.
> 
> This seems like one of those instances!!


Use iLok cloud then.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 12, 2022)

jpb007.uk said:


> Seems like a very bad business decision to completely stop supporting VEPro on eLicenser. I cannot afford £500 to buy x12 new iLok dongles for no benefit. This seems ridiculous - I've known a lot of corporates make similar bad decisions in the past, and have lost many big ticket customers as a result.
> 
> This seems like one of those instances!!


Just out of curiosity, why do you need 12 dongles?


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## iMovieShout (Apr 13, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Just out of curiosity, why do you need 12 dongles?


x12 iLok dongles for x12 Dell servers each running VEPro7. The iLok cloud can only be activated on one machine at any one time (my studio PC in this case). Its not possible to open VEPro7 using iLok cloud on one machine, and then move to another machine to open VEPro7 from iLok cloud, because iLok will close the first machine's cloud session and VEPro7 on that machine becomes inactive / disabled.


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## iMovieShout (Apr 13, 2022)

Michael Antrum said:


> Use iLok cloud then.


Thanks and great idea but as explained above, iLok cloud and any corresponding cloud licenses can only be active on one machine at a time - which is very very restrictive and actually makes the cloud feature next to useless.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 13, 2022)

jpb007.uk said:


> x12 iLok dongles for x12 Dell servers each running VEPro7. The iLok cloud can only be activated on one machine at any one time (my studio PC in this case). Its not possible to open VEPro7 using iLok cloud on one machine, and then move to another machine to open VEPro7 from iLok cloud, because iLok will close the first machine's cloud session and VEPro7 on that machine becomes inactive / disabled.


Wow! 12 servers for one master template?


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## prodigalson (Apr 13, 2022)

jpb007.uk said:


> x12 iLok dongles for x12 Dell servers each running VEPro7. The iLok cloud can only be activated on one machine at any one time (my studio PC in this case). Its not possible to open VEPro7 using iLok cloud on one machine, and then move to another machine to open VEPro7 from iLok cloud, because iLok will close the first machine's cloud session and VEPro7 on that machine becomes inactive / disabled.


You have 12 VEPro servers and can’t afford a £500 outlay for your studio? …maybe it’s time to downsize?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 13, 2022)

prodigalson said:


> You have 12 VEPro servers and can’t afford a £500 outlay for your studio? …maybe it’s time to downsize?


That's what I was thinking. With the latest technology and modern computer performance, it seems to me those big server farms are a thing of the past.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 13, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> With the latest technology and modern computer performance, it seems to me those big server farms are a thing of the past.


Is it possible that this studio is stuck with 12 older machines that they can't afford to replace with a much smaller number of new ones?


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## Zanshin (Apr 13, 2022)

prodigalson said:


> You have 12 VEPro servers and can’t afford a £500 outlay for your studio? …maybe it’s time to downsize?


Hans Zimmer level dreams, Zanshin level budget!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 13, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Is it possible that this studio is stuck with 12 older machines that they can't afford to replace with a much smaller number of new ones?


Possibly, but I'm sure the utility bill could easily justify the benefits of a system upgrade. I'm purely speculating, of course.


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## iMovieShout (Apr 14, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Is it possible that this studio is stuck with 12 older machines that they can't afford to replace with a much smaller number of new ones?


Probably right there. They are circa 9 years old, though each still performs well enough (more than well enough) for music production and rendering of visual effects and video. For info: Each Dell has 256GB DDR3 RAM and x2 Xeons with 24 threads and 10GB/sec network. Expensive to run, yes, but they are largely powered using solar energy these days - so not so bad (using just under 2KW power runing on max, since the original cooling fans were swapped out for more efficient alternatives). Also: One of the servers was recently upgraded to a Dell R720 with faster Xeons and 40 CPU threads, faster memory and 22TB of fast SSDs in RAID0 (for samples, libraries and video editing), which means the other servers can load up fully laiden VEPRO7 templates in about 30 to 45 minutes. Guess it sounds a bit HZ'ish, but it suits our purposes where we sometimes have a number of people using the studio servers simultaneously.

Despite all this, we still don't see the point of being forced on to a different licensing system (ie. iLok) when there is a financial outlay to do so, and no quantifiable benefit to us or our customers (and, we may be in the minority here, but we have never had any issues with eLicenser). It looks like we shall be sticking to eLicenser for a while, and probably wait for a sale to get the iLoks, but will have our studio PC's (for local VEPro, ProTools, etc) continue on iLoks. The iLok cloud looks next to useless , except for anyone that likes to use a mobile rig and has internet access.


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## Michael Antrum (Apr 14, 2022)

Is there any reason you can’t continue using the Elicenser version then ?


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## rrichard63 (Apr 14, 2022)

Michael Antrum said:


> Is there any reason you can’t continue using the Elicenser version then ?


Maybe none. But maybe (1) VSL releases a new instrument the studio can't do without, and/or (2) a bug is belatedly discovered in an existing library on which the business depends.

Another question: since you're doing video as well as audio, do you need to have VEPro on all 12 servers? Or does it make as much sense to host the video and audio separately?


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## iMovieShout (Apr 14, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Maybe none. But maybe (1) VSL releases a new instrument the studio can't do without, and/or (2) a bug is belatedly discovered in an existing library on which the business depends.
> 
> Another question: since you're doing video as well as audio, do you need to have VEPro on all 12 servers? Or does it make as much sense to host the video and audio separately?


Ok, so on your first point, staying with eLicenser is fine for the time being, provided there aren't any bugs introduced in the future by Microsoft Windos, Apple, VSL, N.I, etc etc, because VSL no longer supports eLicenser or any of its products running on eLicenser, or until a new VSL instrument is released that only runs with iLok. For the latter, we're currently fine there as we run all the VSL instruments from a dedicated Dell VEPRO7 server / template which already has an iLok (also needed for running ProTools and a bunch of video rendering software), or from my studio PC, which also has an iLok.

I don't do much of the video editing myself. We have a freelance editor / buddy and a couple of visual effects editors that come online whenever there's a video project to be taken through post-production. But it means that either the servers are running video rendering software, or, they are running VEPRO7. It just hapens that the Dell servers are fairly good at both, and it saves spending £thousands on dedicated video rendering hardware (a typical modern day rendering farm with specialist video rendering cards can cost a small mortgage), but doing the video rendering and VFX effects can be left running and managed remotely - which works well and keeps production costs down. That said we have started renting rendering farms from some of the big studios to help suppliment and speed up the post-production timeline.

For music production, I normally like to keep the film/video hosting away from my studio PC, and have it hosted on a Mac that runs Video Sync 5, although by way of tinkering, I've found that the newer Logic Pro is also up to the job. Audio is bussed from Nuendo through a UAD Apollo x8 to 5.1 surround.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 14, 2022)

jpb007.uk said:


> ... we run all the VSL instruments from a dedicated Dell VEPRO7 server / template which already has an iLok


Now I'm confused. Are you saying that you run VEPro on only one of the 12 servers? If so, what's the problem?


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## iMovieShout (Apr 14, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Now I'm confused. Are you saying that you run VEPro on only one of the 12 servers? If so, what's the problem?


Oops, apologies for any confusion.
VEPRO runs on all the servers but only one of them is dedicated to hosting VSL instruments. The others run VEPRO but hosting a mix of other plugins and libraries that are not VSL. ie. such as Spitfire Audio, NI's Kontakt, etc.


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## BasariStudios (Apr 14, 2022)

Keep in mind, if you are using Cubase and any eLicenser related things, everytime you install something VSL and iLok related it interferes with eLicenser, you will start your PC for your EL to be detected again or Cubase won't start.


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## BasariStudios (Apr 14, 2022)

The reason i wrote the above comment was i remembered from few days ago when i converted to iLok and today there was a VE PRO Update which the same happened BUT!!! After i wrote the comment i restarted and my Cubase i rendered useless, no restarting will help. When you restart, if you open Cubase first you are good to go. If you open VE PRO first Cubase will not start, the eLicenses stops showing up. Basically accepting the new VE PRO Update i rendered my PC useless at least for now or unless i can go backwards.


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## BasariStudios (Apr 14, 2022)

Looks like it finally caught up to me and hell with VSL has finally begun for me. It was all ok until the stupid update for VE PRO today.


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## Ben (Apr 14, 2022)

BasariStudios said:


> Looks like it finally caught up to me and hell with VSL has finally begun for me. It was all ok until the stupid update for VE PRO today.


In case you have issues with the latest version, please report the issue to [email protected] and roll-back to the last version via the Assistant, until we are able to solve it:


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## BasariStudios (Apr 14, 2022)

Ben said:


> In case you have issues with the latest version, please report the issue to [email protected] and roll-back to the last version via the Assistant, until we are able to solve it:


Thanks Ben. Will do so now. Basically what happens is you have a choice of either using Cubase or VE PRO, not both at the same time. If i open Cubase first, VE PRO will not load projects. If i open VE PRO First Cubase fails to detect EL and then you have to restart.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 14, 2022)

jpb007.uk said:


> Oops, apologies for any confusion.
> VEPRO runs on all the servers but only one of them is dedicated to hosting VSL instruments. The others run VEPRO but hosting a mix of other plugins and libraries that are not VSL. ie. such as Spitfire Audio, NI's Kontakt, etc.


Now I understand. Is there any chance that the many instances of VEPro could be consolidated into fewer instances on fewer servers, and still work the same from the point of view of the the DAW(s)?

(I'm thinking out loud here, trying to find feasible workarounds.)


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## BasariStudios (Apr 14, 2022)

Ben said:


> In case you have issues with the latest version, please report the issue to [email protected] and roll-back to the last version via the Assistant, until we are able to solve it:


Nope. RollBack did not fix the problem. I did not sign up for this but its ok. Sorry, just frustrated. I also have a very bad feeling for this. Very bad feeling that will render my stuff useless for months. The RollBack did not fix the issue which means...something more serious is messed up. It created a clash between Cubase and VE PRO.


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## iMovieShout (Apr 14, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Now I understand. Is there any chance that the many instances of VEPro could be consolidated into fewer instances on fewer servers, and still work the same from the point of view of the the DAW(s)?
> 
> (I'm thinking out loud here, trying to find feasible workarounds.)


That's certainly a good idea, but then larger memory modules would be needed. Each server is limited to 12 RAM slots, and are currently filed with a mix of 32GB and 16GB memory modules. We'd need to bin the 16GB modules and replace with 32GB modules. In theory thats fine, and by doing this we could probably do away with 2 or 3 servers, but 32GB (and above) modules are quite expensive these days, even on ebay. Furthermore, doing this, actually would reduce the performance of the server for the more demanding libraries. Long story is that we started with 16 servers originaly and tuned the performance by spreading the larger libraries across them, and then whittled down to 12 by trial and error. This means that for bigger projects (normally full orchestral with a mix of Spitfire Audio, CineSamples, 8DIO, Orchestral Tools, EastWest,etc) the CPU demand is spread fairly evenly across the servers. This also works well when 2 or more studio DAW PC's are working with the libraries.

Anyway, short story (phew!!) is that to reduce the number of servers, would mean alot more memory which then makes this option more expensive than forking out on the iLok dongles.

I hope that makes sense.


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## Dr.Quest (Sep 4, 2022)

I decided to update to the iLok versions of Vienna Instrument Player and my VSL libraries. I started slow with my Solo strings and the Player. The strings installed well and the Player installed the stand alone and that work with the strings. However it doesn't install the plugins (AU, VST) versions. The installer shows zero bytes for all the plugins. The Stand alone shows 31.2 mbs. This is on a Mac. Catalina. Why no plugins?


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## Ben (Sep 5, 2022)

Dr.Quest said:


> I decided to update to the iLok versions of Vienna Instrument Player and my VSL libraries. I started slow with my Solo strings and the Player. The strings installed well and the Player installed the stand alone and that work with the strings. However it doesn't install the plugins (AU, VST) versions. The installer shows zero bytes for all the plugins. The Stand alone shows 31.2 mbs. This is on a Mac. Catalina. Why no plugins?


Try "Reinstalling" the Player in the Vienna Assistant.
If this doesn't work please contact [email protected]


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## Dr.Quest (Sep 5, 2022)

Ben said:


> Try "Reinstalling" the Player in the Vienna Assistant.
> If this doesn't work please contact [email protected]


I‘ve reinstalled several times to no success.


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## Petrucci (Sep 13, 2022)

Does anybody know if Ilok version of MIR Pro is available (or will be in the future??)? Vienna Assistant shows me old MIR Pro Roompacks with Ilok, but where is old MIR Pro for Ilok?? Unfortunately my MIR Pro 3D doesn't work on my system - probably I'll have to upgrade my High Sierra to Mojave for it to work, but in the meantime I want to switch my old MIR Pro to Ilok since I just finished installing all my VSL Ilok instruments.


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## Zanshin (Sep 13, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> Does anybody know if Ilok version of MIR Pro is available (or will be in the future??)? Vienna Assistant shows me old MIR Pro Roompacks with Ilok, but where is old MIR Pro for Ilok?? Unfortunately my MIR Pro 3D doesn't work on my system - probably I'll have to upgrade my High Sierra to Mojave for it to work, but in the meantime I want to switch my old MIR Pro to Ilok since I just finished installing all my VSL Ilok instruments.


No, MIR Pro is e-Licensor version only.


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## Petrucci (Sep 13, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> No, MIR Pro is e-Licensor version only.


Oops, thanks..!( I thought that since there were legacy MIR Pro Roompacks in Vienna Assistant - legacy MIR Pro itself should've been too)


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## Zanshin (Sep 13, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> Oops, thanks..!( I thought that since there were legacy MIR Pro Roompacks in Vienna Assistant - legacy MIR Pro itself should've been too)


I believe the legacy roompacks are for the MIR Pro embedded in VEP.


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## Petrucci (Sep 13, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I believe the legacy roompacks are for the MIR Pro embedded in VEP.


Aha, got it! Seems like I'll have to use 2 dongles for a while lol)


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## Raphioli (Sep 18, 2022)

I've read that theres an issue with VSL, iLok and eLicenser.
Has that been resolved?

I'm using VEP and was thinking about switching to iLok, since I still am using eLicensor.


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## foxby (Sep 18, 2022)

Indeed, there is, probably more than one... In my case, Vienna Suite (on eLicenser for the moment) is not working in Cubase 12 latest version, Win 11. It has an error saying that is not a valid VST.


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## CeDur (Oct 7, 2022)

@Ben I have Synchron library deposited to iLok account. I'm going to play gig next week where the internet connection will be an issue so I thought I might trasfer it back to my Vienna Key - is it possible? Or I have to buy physical iLok dongle? If the latter is true, do I have to order one from VSL or I can just go to my local musical store and buy it there?


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## Ben (Oct 7, 2022)

CeDur said:


> @Ben I have Synchron library deposited to iLok account. I'm going to play gig next week where the internet connection will be an issue so I thought I might trasfer it back to my Vienna Key - is it possible? Or I have to buy physical iLok dongle? If the latter is true, do I have to order one from VSL or I can just go to my local musical store and buy it there?


You can't use the eLicenser for iLok protected content. Still, the old eLicencer license is still there, you could use it with an old eLicenser Player version and the old sample content if you like so.

But I would instead recommend to get an iLok USB key. It doesn't matter where you get one, but make sure it's one of the v3 ones (metal casing). Btw, you can get the iLok keys as USB A or USB C variants, in case you have no or not enough USB A ports you might want to get the USB C one.


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## holywilly (Oct 7, 2022)

CeDur said:


> @Ben I have Synchron library deposited to iLok account. I'm going to play gig next week where the internet connection will be an issue so I thought I might trasfer it back to my Vienna Key - is it possible? Or I have to buy physical iLok dongle? If the latter is true, do I have to order one from VSL or I can just go to my local musical store and buy it there?


Buying a physical ilok is the best solution when internet connection isn’t available at all time, you can get it from the local music store.


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## hdsmile (Dec 10, 2022)

Has anyone had a problem with the transition to ilok? 
I getting the error: 
_We are sorry, a problem with your submitted iLok account has occurred.
Please contact our support at [email protected]_


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 10, 2022)

hdsmile said:


> Has anyone had a problem with the transition to ilok?
> I getting the error:
> _We are sorry, a problem with your submitted iLok account has occurred.
> Please contact our support at [email protected]_


Is your ilok username correct on the VSL website.....


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## hdsmile (Dec 10, 2022)

Michael Antrum said:


> Is your ilok username correct on the VSL website.....


Yeah, sure!


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## Ben (Dec 10, 2022)

hdsmile said:


> Has anyone had a problem with the transition to ilok?
> I getting the error:
> _We are sorry, a problem with your submitted iLok account has occurred.
> Please contact our support at [email protected]_


Please send us a mail, our IT team will look into this and come back to you.


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## hdsmile (Dec 10, 2022)

Thanks Ben, I already sent a message 10 hours ago, but unfortunately no reply yet.


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## Ben (Dec 10, 2022)

hdsmile said:


> Thanks Ben, I already sent a message 10 hours ago, but unfortunately no reply yet.


You will probably get a response on Monday.


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