# LIVE LOOPS In new Logic Pro X Version Appears on Apple for a sec.



## gsilbers (Mar 29, 2020)

Seemingly Unreleased Version of Logic Pro X With Live Loops Appears on Apple's Education Site [Updated]


Update: Apple has replaced the Logic Pro X image with an older version. Original story follows. A seemingly unreleased version of Logic Pro X has...




www.macrumors.com










The image from Apple's education products page shows a 16-inch MacBook Pro running Logic Pro X, but with a familiar interface that looks extremely similar to GarageBand's Live Loops sessions on iOS. Since Logic Pro X does not currently contain this feature, an update with GarageBand-style Live Loops sessions may be planned.

At present, the only way to use Live Loops in Logic Pro X, albeit with substantially less functionality, is to share a Live Loops project from GarageBand for iOS. Live Loops was added to GarageBand for iOS in January 2016, as a new feature for creating music by tapping cells and columns in a grid to trigger different looped instruments and samples. Live Loops includes a library of Apple-designed loop templates in multiple genres, including EDM, Hip Hop, Dubstep and Rock, or you can create your own. Since then, Apple has introduced downloadable Sound Packs to expand the Live Loops sound library.

Logic Pro X was last updated three months ago with version 10.4.8, which included minor bug fixes. Apple tends to update Logic Pro X around every three months, which gives further credibility to the likelihood of an impending update.

Earlier this week, Apple began offering 90-day free trials of Logic Pro X and Final Cut Pro X.


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## gsilbers (Mar 29, 2020)

crazy, first DP and now logic. i use live but dont use the LOOPS page that much.


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 29, 2020)

Good spot! Looks like a big release. Will it be the first version of Logic not to run on my ancient 2011 iMac? Fingers crossed..

Maybe they've finally completed a retina update of the old plugs, VI's. Tenner says Ultrabeat looks the same..


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## gsilbers (Mar 29, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> Good spot! Looks like a big release. Will it be the first version of Logic not to run on my ancient 2011 iMac? Fingers crossed..
> 
> Maybe they've finally completed a retina update of the old plugs, VI's. Tenner says Ultrabeat looks the same..




i wonder how it will affect scoring to picture. seems that its adding way too many things at once. 
i would of thought this would be nicer in MainStage. even just garageband to get loop ideas going and then finishing them on logic. 
i guess this LIVE/bitwig thing is more prominent than i thought.


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## gsilbers (Mar 29, 2020)

the "remix fx" looks insteresting. its like a x/y pad for effects.


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## Hans-Peter (Mar 29, 2020)

So sad ... so sad. Luxury features (or kid's toys) while ridden through with bugs and lacking features (see Expression Maps, Remote Control, CC Lanes). Really, I'm just waiting for Audiogroceries' X-Art to translate my Articulations Sets to Expression Maps to make the jump to Cubase. 

Sorry for the rant. But -- to me -- this is just pathetic.


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## gsilbers (Mar 29, 2020)

Hans-Peter said:


> So sad ... so sad. Luxury features (or kid's toys) while ridden through with bugs and lacking features (see Expression Maps, Remote Control, CC Lanes). Really, I'm just waiting for Audiogroceries' X-Art to translate my Articulations Sets to Expression Maps to make the jump to Cubase.
> 
> Sorry for the rant. But -- to me -- this is just pathetic.



I guess it’s just free market and where demand is. Like 90% of users don’t use or know or care about expression maps.

And yes, hopefully it won’t run into a bunch of new bugs. 

So it seems it’s only a button next to flex that toggles this new feature. 
And flex does t have the best algorithm tbh.

Also, not sure wtf happened to apple loops but none of my 50 or so loop packs I had that where working fine are working anymore. 
And there is no more apple loops utility. 
So maybe it’s all related cuz if not then Apple doesn’t have the best track record on loops.


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## gsilbers (Mar 29, 2020)

ah, remix fx is a plugin. seems it will be like alchemy x/y pads.


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## gsilbers (Mar 29, 2020)

i thought more poeple would be outraged of the "Abletization" of logic.


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## Living Fossil (Mar 29, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> Also, not sure wtf happened to apple loops but none of my 50 or so loop packs I had that where working fine are working anymore.



Are these 3rd party apple loops?
Those that come with logic work fine here (10.4.8, Mojave)


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## davidson (Mar 29, 2020)

If it's similar to lives session view, I'm all for it. Maybe not so helpful for orchestral, but for most other genres, session style views are awesome for trying different arrangements and creating a structure on the fly.


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## gsilbers (Mar 29, 2020)

Living Fossil said:


> Are these 3rd party apple loops?
> Those that come with logic work fine here (10.4.8, Mojave)



yes, ONLY the ones that came with logic. i had about 50 or so loop libraries from different vendors that would come up fine in apple loops directory and could easily check what i needed via metadata. now those dont work.


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## davidson (Mar 29, 2020)

I think we might be seeing better integration of the ipad with logic now too, what with those x-y pads...


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## Geoff Grace (Mar 29, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> Good spot! Looks like a big release. Will it be the first version of Logic not to run on my ancient 2011 iMac? Fingers crossed..


I'd be surprised if the next big release weren't Catalina-only.

I hope to be surprised.

Best,

Geoff


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## gsilbers (Mar 29, 2020)

Geoff Grace said:


> I'd be surprised if the next big release weren't Catalina-only.
> 
> I hope to be surprised.
> 
> ...



im already out on the latest version (high sierra here)

so if its a huge change and its soemthing poeple will really want then im sure itll be catalina only. 
apple and its force upgrades.... im on to them


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## jcrosby (Mar 29, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> Seemingly Unreleased Version of Logic Pro X With Live Loops Appears on Apple's Education Site [Updated]
> 
> 
> Update: Apple has replaced the Logic Pro X image with an older version. Original story follows. A seemingly unreleased version of Logic Pro X has...
> ...


Oh man this would be the isht! I'd love to be able to experiment and knock up ideas in Logic as quickly as I can in Live's Session View.


As far as this being a _kids_ feature. Sorry, but to put it in blunt terms - you guys are either out of touch, or haven't actually explored _Session View_ in Live.

Tons of composers use Live, even if only for editing and sound design. People who haven't explored Session View have completely missed its entire purpose - to get *chunks of ideas in in rapid succession*, or *explore multiple motifs without having to stop the transport*.

In a linear timeline you simply cannot accomplish this without having to stop and rewind. In Live you can leave the transport looping indefinitely and record multiple scenes of entire ideas. You can knock up a 64 bar idea in a few minutes if you have your idea mapped out and you know what you're doing. And you can do it in such a way where you give yourself more than one motif to experiment with.

From the linear editor you can then audition your alternate motif(s) in real time by tabbing to the Session View and lauching that specific clip, (or multiple clips). The linear timeline will continue to play, and only the selected channel(s) will be taken over by the clip launcher.

The TLDR is, at least in Live and Bitwig, your composition isn't bound by *linear time*. You can move between linear time and experimenting with new ideas in real time without having to stop the transport, or overwrite anything in your timeline unless/until you choose to. Frankly more DAWs should have had this ages ago.

People who don't understand this feature seem to think it only benefits EDM and they couldn't be more wrong, it's incredibly useful. Pair it with Live's resampling feature and I haven't found anything like Live when I need it.. Bitwig's close, and better in many ways, but Bitwig's been buggy for me and it's a CPU pig.

Hopefully this would allow for MIDI clips and realtime audio stretching. If not then it wouldn't bring the benefits I'd expect so we'll have to see what it actually is whenever it finally releases.


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## jcrosby (Mar 29, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> im already out on the latest version (high sierra here)
> 
> so if its a huge change and its soemthing poeple will really want then im sure itll be catalina only.
> apple and its force upgrades.... im on to them


I doubt it. It's not a smart time for Apple to make decisions like that as the economy isn't exactly encouraging people to buy new machines en masse. And the Logic team have to be aware by now that Catalina's on many Logic users ****list. (They were well aware of it when I called them about an issue a few months ago.) Plus Logic's never skipped an OS.

I could see them requiring Mojave though, in fact I kind of am expecting it for the next version. But I personally doubt they'll move directly to 10.15 from 10.13 as a requirement. (I may eat those words. If so so be it... )


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## gsilbers (Mar 29, 2020)

davidson said:


> I think we might be seeing better integration of the ipad with logic now too, what with those x-y pads...


that'd be nice.


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## jcrosby (Mar 29, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> yes, ONLY the ones that came with logic. i had about 50 or so loop libraries from different vendors that would come up fine in apple loops directory and could easily check what i needed via metadata. now those dont work.


Did you check to see if they got moved to _Untagged Loops_? I used to keep wav files in the _user_ Apple Loops folder and they'd show up in the Apple Loops browser anyway. (Not all, only some that I',m assuming had metadata.) These should now show up under untagged loops.

If they are Apple Loops you might try _Reindex All Loops_. I've had the index break on me before, this only takes a few minutes and fixes it...

You probably already know this, but you can set any folder with audio files in as an 'untagged loops' folder. I have my entire sample library bookmarked and use this to search for audio files from inside Logic.


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## Living Fossil (Mar 29, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> I doubt it. It's not a smart time for Apple to make decisions like that as the economy isn't exactly encouraging people to buy new machines en masse. And the Logic team have to be aware by now that Catalina's on many Logic users ****list. (They were well aware of it when I called them about an issue a few months ago.) Plus Logic's never skipped an OS.



The recent updates were available for the actual plus the last operating system.
Would mean Catalina plus Mojave support.
Hope they keep it like this.


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## jcrosby (Mar 29, 2020)

Living Fossil said:


> The recent updates were available for the actual plus the last operating system.
> Would mean Catalina plus Mojave support.
> Hope they keep it like this.


Yeah, and they've been consistent about that. Either we'll have to see, but also hoping they don't drop Mojave support. That'd be a real kick in the ⚽⚽


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## gsilbers (Mar 30, 2020)

Mm, maybe Mojave will be safe.
I remember that every big update they kept it on the lastest os? Or maybe it’s two but the latest computer. 
Or they drop support for more hardware ...
Either way... we know it’s something to get people to upgrade


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## VinRice (Mar 30, 2020)

Excellent news. Extremely useful for arranging in any production environment. No doubt there will be some quirks, features and enhancements not found in other 'popular session view applications' in the usual Apple manner.


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## gsilbers (Mar 30, 2020)

I’m actually looking forward for that remix fx feature.
It seems similar like the x/y pad on Live where the user can assign what parameters to affect. 
And it looks to have a few other added things... maybe lfo?


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 30, 2020)

Apparently the image has been removed. 😅


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## dflood (Mar 30, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> Like 90% of users don’t use or know or care about expression maps.



I’d say more like 99%


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## InLight-Tone (Mar 30, 2020)

I welcome having an Ableton inspired Session view incorporated into Logic. I used Ableton for it's fast ability to lay down ideas improvisationally but always hated it's arrange view for finishing them. Having a Session view built into a "real" DAW with Notation, and all the rest will keep me from looking over my shoulder at Live...


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## Cinebient (Mar 30, 2020)

It looks exact like the live loops and XY performance pads which are in the iOS Garage Band since 2016.
There are tons of videos about it if you like to see what it does.
Maybe they extended on this within Logic.
But i really hope there is more in 10.5. Live is the last DAW i would use


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## stonzthro (Mar 30, 2020)

Looks interesting to me.


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## gsilbers (Mar 31, 2020)

Cinebient said:


> It looks exact like the live loops and XY performance pads which are in the iOS Garage Band since 2016.
> There are tons of videos about it if you like to see what it does.
> Maybe they extended on this within Logic.
> But i really hope there is more in 10.5. Live is the last DAW i would use



The x/y feature seems to be very cool. Looks more like alchemy x/y pad .


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## gsilbers (Mar 31, 2020)

the iPhone 9 is going to be released in the next 5 days... i suspect the new logic 10.5 will be release at the same time.


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## gsilbers (Mar 31, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> The x/y feature seems to be very cool. Looks more like alchemy x/y pad .


.

never mind. i just tried garageband which has exactly the same features as in the leaked image.

it seems ok. the fx feature is more for stutter edits and filter fx.

i dont see the live loops as useful for scoring.


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## Medienhexer (Mar 31, 2020)

I have been waiting for this in great anticipation since starting to use Live in parallel for this exact workflow.

It gives you a different perspective on arrangement. I'd say it's very useful for any loop-based style where arrangements work by mostly adding or subtracting elements (Electronic, HipHop, Pop, Cues). Doesn't limit you to only using pre-made loops in any way. Not so great for classic composition and bands performing live.

In Live, I'll usually record several variations of an instrument's part in low, mid, high and maxed out intensity/complexity. Then I use these to build Scenes with all instrumentation following the intensity level. 

I can then quickly play back Scenes in succession to check if the music will flow between two adjacent intensity levels and find out what to do if there's too much of a contrast. It's very easy to check if two Scenes sound too similar/static and change things up by adding variations or replacing e.g. one percussion part for another.


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 31, 2020)

I’d hope for a new audio browser then. The current one is pretty bare bones.


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## gsilbers (Mar 31, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> I’d hope for a new audio browser then. The current one is pretty bare bones.



that would be cool. seems the whole right side has been lack luster for a while except for apple loops functions. they initially did pretty cool concept out of the midi transform functions of the old environment but it hasn't changed much. 
It would be cool if more midi plugins where made and also that they would interface with audio plugins. 
like an midi LFO plugin can be routed to the filter of an instrument. or at last pan, volume or something in the audio side.


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## Alex Fraser (Apr 1, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> It would be cool if more midi plugins where made and also that they would interface with audio plugins.
> like an midi LFO plugin can be routed to the filter of an instrument. or at last pan, volume or something in the audio side.


This is already possible for VI's and plugins via the "Learn Plugin Parameter" option, found in the modulation midi FX.


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## Living Fossil (Apr 1, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> This is already possible for VI's and plugins via the "Learn Plugin Parameter" option, found in the modulation midi FX.



What i'd like to see would be "modulator add-ons"

They would be like little post-it stickers which you can attach to a (assignable) parameter directly in the plugin window and where you can set a modulation.
This would be somehow a 21st century solution.


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## gst98 (Apr 1, 2020)

While they are adding features from Ableton I wish they would add their drum rack. For pop production, the drum rack workflow makes logics implementation look so clumsy


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## Alex Fraser (Apr 1, 2020)

gst98 said:


> While they are adding features from Ableton I wish they would add their drum rack. For pop production, the drum rack workflow makes logics implementation look so clumsy


Absolutely. The Drum Machine designer is such a cludgy Frankenstein thing. Ultrabeat is well, Ultrabeat. For something so fundamental to modern production, I'm surprised it's never really been addressed properly.


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## davidson (Apr 1, 2020)

gst98 said:


> While they are adding features from Ableton I wish they would add their drum rack. For pop production, the drum rack workflow makes logics implementation look so clumsy



I'd like abletons sampler added too.


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## gsilbers (Apr 1, 2020)

davidson said:


> I'd like abletons sampler added too.



there is alchemy. it has all these great feature no one knows about. you CAN work it like ableton sampler. drag and drop. use exs etc. but its so overwhelming complex for what most poeple need it to be and exs24 is too simple, clunky and old. and no drag and drop. but it does convert to exs24 from region which is kinda cool. 
and doesnt seem apple did anything with redmatica other than the phat fx and step fx and autosampler. if they ever released a sampler like something made from redmatica features then it would be a hit.


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## gsilbers (Apr 1, 2020)

Living Fossil said:


> What i'd like to see would be "modulator add-ons"
> 
> They would be like little post-it stickers which you can attach to a (assignable) parameter directly in the plugin window and where you can set a modulation.
> This would be somehow a 21st century solution.



exactly! thats what i was thinking as well. drag from lfo on the midi plugin a little line/cord to the instrument plugin's filter. (or something).


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## davidson (Apr 1, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> and doesnt seem apple did anything with redmatica other than the phat fx and step fx and autosampler. if they ever released a sampler like something made from redmatica features then it would be a hit.



I'm pretty sure phat and step (along with alchemy) came from the acquisition of Camel Audio. I don't use mainstage so I'm not sure what redmatica brought to the party.

Alchemy is brilliant no doubt, but sampler is just so damn intuitive and quick to use. I currently use serato sample as a substitute which is also fantastic, but I still yearn.


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## gsilbers (Apr 1, 2020)

davidson said:


> I'm pretty sure phat and step (along with alchemy) came from the acquisition of Camel Audio. I don't use mainstage so I'm not sure what redmatica brought to the party.
> 
> Alchemy is brilliant no doubt, but sampler is just so damn intuitive and quick to use. I currently use serato sample as a substitute which is also fantastic, but I still yearn.



oops. u right con camel.

yes, sampler is very cool.


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## gst98 (Apr 1, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> there is alchemy. it has all these great feature no one knows about. you CAN work it like ableton sampler. drag and drop. use exs etc. but its so overwhelming complex for what most poeple need it to be and exs24 is too simple, clunky and old. and no drag and drop. but it does convert to exs24 from region which is kinda cool.
> and doesnt seem apple did anything with redmatica other than the phat fx and step fx and autosampler. if they ever released a sampler like something made from redmatica features then it would be a hit.



Again, for pop production Abletons sample is way better that logics. It can do pitch shifting with no effort at all. EXS and Alchemy can't really do the same thing, they get close but there are way more steps involved.


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## gdoubleyou (Apr 2, 2020)

davidson said:


> I'm pretty sure phat and step (along with alchemy) came from the acquisition of Camel Audio. I don't use mainstage so I'm not sure what redmatica brought to the party.
> 
> Alchemy is brilliant no doubt, but sampler is just so damn intuitive and quick to use. I currently use serato sample as a substitute which is also fantastic, but I still yearn.



There is a cutdown version of Autosampler in Mainstage, lacks the features I loved.


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## jcrosby (Apr 2, 2020)

davidson said:


> I'm pretty sure phat and step (along with alchemy) came from the acquisition of Camel Audio.


Yup. These are CamelPhat and CamelSpace respectively. The Logic versions are also more powerful than the originals.


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