# Is it possible to convert a PDF score into a XML or MIDI file ?



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Hi everyone !

Total notation newbie here 

I have that PDF orchestral score from Danny Elfman that I would love to study in great detail.

I started rewriting the score into Staffpad, thinking it would be a great exercice, but this is a huge pain in the ***. Even if I love Staffpad, I have the feeling that the score is just too big, with too many instruments, and I can't see the end of it. Staffpad is imho more like a sketching tool, but writing a full orchestral cue on it is an awfully long and meticulous task.

I don't have the money for something like Dorico yet, and it is honestly not a priority, but I would love to have this score translated into MIDI in Cubase. Is there a way to do so, without having to write everything "by hand" ? Something that analyzes the PDF (which seems to be something rendered by a computer, not printed), and extracts the XML or MIDI data ?

Hope this makes sense.

Thank you very much !

Emmanuel


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## JimmyPoppa

Emanuel,

I have used this with some success: http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/pdftomusicpro.htm. It depends on how the pdf file was created. Also, for a score of the size you're talking about, I don't know how well it will do. I usually save the files as xml so, I haven't used it for MIDI but there is an export as MIDI function.

Another tool is this: http://www.neuratron.com/photoscore.htm There is a lite and a full version.

There's also this: http://www.musitek.com/

With all of these you will have to do some editing once you scan and export but they may do what you want better than what you're using.

Hope this helps.

Be Well,

Jimmy


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## leon chevalier

Hello ! 

Never tried one myself, but there is a list here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_music_recognition

Hope that help,

Leon


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## Luke W

I've never had much luck scanning PDFs into notation software and getting usable midi. I've always ended up deleting huge sections and just playing the notes in. If the orch score has transposed parts (rather than concert pitch), that's probably going to be a massive headache to repair.
Instead: I would just play in each part by hand. You'll get a fuller understanding of the orchestration - which is the point of the exercise. And you'll avoid the inevitable frustration of trying to get the whole scan/export deal to work. Just my opinion


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## Emmanuel Rousseau

Tjank you, @JimmyPoppa and @leon chevalier ! Will probably give it a try ! But as @Luke W is saying, maybe I'm missing the point of the exercice.

That's why I initially started with Staffpad, which was perfect for studying the orchestration. Only problem is the process, too slow. I don't even own a Surface, using it with my laptop and my Wacom tablet, so there are lots of accuracy misses.


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## GdT

I have done this via Sibelius 7. There is a Sibelius add-on that can read a pdf score and load it into Sibelius. Then it can be exported to XML or MIDI.


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## d.healey

Scanning a score usually produces crappy results that need a lot of clean-up, this can be faster or much much slower than writing out depending on your skill/experience with the scanning and cleaning up software.

Musescore is an excellent (and free tool) for writing notation, it is very quick if you enter notes step-time with a MIDI keyboard but even using a computer keyboard is pretty quick once you get the hang of it (which will take time). Another option is to see if someone has already done the work for you, there may already be a digital version of the score or a MIDI file.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau

Thank you guys !

Will give Musescore a try, and I'm downloading the 30 days trial of Dorico.


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## Kittifer

Yes. Musitek (publishers of SmartScore) offer a Desktop app for Mac and Windows called Music-to-XML. 



whitewasteland said:


> Hi everyone !
> 
> Total notation newbie here
> 
> I have that PDF orchestral score from Danny Elfman that I would love to study in great detail.
> 
> I started rewriting the score into Staffpad, thinking it would be a great exercice, but this is a huge pain in the ***. Even if I love Staffpad, I have the feeling that the score is just too big, with too many instruments, and I can't see the end of it. Staffpad is imho more like a sketching tool, but writing a full orchestral cue on it is an awfully long and meticulous task.
> 
> I don't have the money for something like Dorico yet, and it is honestly not a priority, but I would love to have this score translated into MIDI in Cubase. Is there a way to do so, without having to write everything "by hand" ? Something that analyzes the PDF (which seems to be something rendered by a computer, not printed), and extracts the XML or MIDI data ?
> 
> Hope this makes sense.
> 
> Thank you very much !
> 
> Emmanuel


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## Kittifer

Music-to-XML is a desktop app from Musitek, publishers of SmartScore. Cost is $99 at musitek.com.



whitewasteland said:


> Hi everyone !
> 
> Total notation newbie here
> 
> I have that PDF orchestral score from Danny Elfman that I would love to study in great detail.
> 
> I started rewriting the score into Staffpad, thinking it would be a great exercice, but this is a huge pain in the ***. Even if I love Staffpad, I have the feeling that the score is just too big, with too many instruments, and I can't see the end of it. Staffpad is imho more like a sketching tool, but writing a full orchestral cue on it is an awfully long and meticulous task.
> 
> I don't have the money for something like Dorico yet, and it is honestly not a priority, but I would love to have this score translated into MIDI in Cubase. Is there a way to do so, without having to write everything "by hand" ? Something that analyzes the PDF (which seems to be something rendered by a computer, not printed), and extracts the XML or MIDI data ?
> 
> Hope this makes sense.
> 
> Thank you very much !
> 
> Emmanuel


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## batonruse

JimmyPoppa said:


> Emanuel,
> 
> I have used this with some success: http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/pdftomusicpro.htm. It depends on how the pdf file was created. Also, for a score of the size you're talking about, I don't know how well it will do. I usually save the files as xml so, I haven't used it for MIDI but there is an export as MIDI function.
> 
> I would definitely recommend trying the PDFtoMusic version. It doesn't convert to xml as in the Pro version but it is free and I have had very good results generating midi files. As JimmyPoppa says, it depends on the quality of PDF and how it was created.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau

Thanks guys, that was a year ago and I gave up on the process of importing MIDI data from a PDF. Had more luck entering the MIDI manually, plus I have the feeling it's a better exercice


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## bryla

And the annoying answer:
Inputting EVERY single note, articulation, dynamic, figuring out where you can just copy one line and octave it up or down, where you can simply change the pitches IS studying it in one of the greatest details possible.

Even doing one page is immensely helpful.

You'll learn notation as well and how your scoring program works.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau

bryla said:


> And the annoying answer:
> Inputting EVERY single note, articulation, dynamic, figuring out where you can just copy one line and octave it up or down, where you can simply change the pitches IS studying it in one of the greatest details possible.
> 
> Even doing one page is immensely helpful.
> 
> You'll learn notation as well and how your scoring program works.



Totally agree with your annoying answer, it's precisely what I've been doing since last year


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## JohnG

Hi @whitewasteland 

I'm curious what you're trying to accomplish. Maybe we could be more helpful if we knew that? In general, reproducing lengthy parts of scores has not helped me nearly as much as picking a few bars here, a few bars there from a score you admire.

But if you would share your goal, perhaps we could give more helpful, accurate suggestions. Film music? Learning orchestration? Composing a symphony? String trio? Choir?

Kind regards,

John


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## Emmanuel Rousseau

Hi @JohnG !

Besides the obvious benefits of learning orchestration (you're right btw, these days I'm only transcribing the parts where I don't understand what's going on), I also wanted to do this to train myself to read music accurately.

I was a terrible reader at the time (and I'm still not that good, I'm afraid !), so I was very interested in having music written on a notation program, and press "play" whenever I needed it to check if my reading was correct.

As I said, this was a year ago, and since that moment I have found a better interest in manually entering the notes.

I hope it makes more sense now 

Emmanuel


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## JohnG

whitewasteland said:


> I hope it makes more sense now



Yes, it does. Copying by hand is actually pretty fast, and it can induce one to notice things that an automatic transcription does not.

If you want to learn orchestration, you could check out some of John Williams' Signature Series scores for old school stuff. If you want a text, I like Adler -- either way, good luck!

John


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## smallberries

JohnG said:


> If you want to learn orchestration, you could check out some of John Williams' Signature Series scores for old school stuff. If you want a text, I like Adler -- either way, good luck!
> 
> John



wow, thanks for the pointer to JWSSS (I am taking the liberty of inventing an acronym suitable to VIC)
I am early in studying orchestration, and also the follow-on questions about how much a score should notate vs assume is communicated by other means (musicality, tradition, context, conductor, ....). Piping this stuff through MIDI playback makes one painfully aware where the humans are missing.


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## JohnG

smallberries said:


> Piping this stuff through MIDI playback makes one painfully aware where the humans are missing



So true, especially for JW, who's not only gifted as an orchestrator and composer, but a rare bird in conducting as well. Not to mention 100 or so superb musicians...


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## bryla

One thing that struck me when I began inputting scores and playing back with Sibelius sounds is: it's all in the writing! A JW track still sounds like JW and Silvestri like Silvestri. The hollywood sound is not in the samples or the room of the samples or the algo vs. convo reverb, it's in the writing.


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## Rob

bryla said:


> One thing that struck me when I began inputting scores and playing back with Sibelius sounds is: it's all in the writing! A JW track still sounds like JW and Silvestri like Silvestri. The hollywood sound is not in the samples or the room of the samples or the algo vs. convo reverb, it's in the writing.


This has been stated many times here but it's worth repeating... Hamlet still sounds like Hamlet even when read by me... we're derailing the thread though


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## playscore2

The PlayScore 2 app will help with this! It is very accurate and plays back music from taking a photo or importing a PDF score. Our premium subscription allows you to export MusicXML files to software like Cubase then you can arrange your music there.

We recommend you export your scores as MusicXML files as they contain more of the SMFL data. However, our paid subscriptions also allow you to export your scores as MIDI files and then you can insert them into music software from there. https://www.playscore.co/blog/convert-sheet-music-to-midi.


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