# Cinematic Studios Mixing/Routing Mic Setup Tips



## kupo15 (Jan 25, 2021)

I'm eagerly waiting Alex's video going into more depth about how he mixes and routes the different mics in CS which he said hopefully will be out by the end of the month. In the meantime, I was hoping to try and get a head start on it in case the video gets delayed and run by everyone a setup that seems reasonable and good that's consistent to what film scoring mic setup is like. I find it remarkably difficult to find information on mic placements and techniques used to boost sections to achieve sounds in film scoring.

Here is what he described to me about his setup when I asked for tips:

_"Sure thing! I use Cubase, and generally I like to load all the patches in a single instance of Kontakt and then route all the patches using the separate mics each routed to their own group bus in Cubase. So in other words, one for Close, one for Main and then another for Room. In Woodwinds I also like to route the OH (overheads) mics to their own bus. Overall, this routing setup allows me to quickly control the level of the Main mic (for example) for every patch simultaneously, so you can quickly and easily change the vibe of the sound from lush and ambient to close and intimate as needed, by balancing the close / ambient mix.

I hope that helps! I'll be making a video soon that explores this in more depth, including my reverb of choice and so on. This will go on up Youtube, hopefully by the end of Jan."_

The attached picture is what I gathered for the brass:
-How does this look? Should I be separating the trumpets out from the low brass to create 3 brass stems (horn, trumpet, low brass) or are they treated as one unit?
-Is the sends to the reverb tracks at the appropriate chain in the signal?
-Do I need the room mics since I'm adding a reverb channel as well?

My aim or thought process is to use these three mics to get the "in the orchestra" sound I'm looking for but then be able to automate the close mics if I want say the trumpets to soar over the orchestra in the spotlight, then back the close off when I want that section back in the texture. I heard this is the technique used for film scoring to achieve that JW sound


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## Cory Pelizzari (Jan 25, 2021)

I don't know about routing in Cubase but I will say that having each brass section separate is good for controlling the mix between each element (you can always add a "Brass Bus" for them later). If you're going for that concert sound, I actually recommend using just the room mic with a dash of reverb (because the room mic doesn't have the fatness of the main mic) and then using EQ to scoop out a little bit of low and low mid, then boost the 7k range with a generous Q. Meanwhile you can route the close mic to a separate track, add a bit of early reflection reverb and use that as your spotlight mic.

Also remember that each brass section doesn't need to have the same mic settings. If for example you want the horns to sound further away, you can use just the room mics for them, while having the trumpets using both the room mics and a touch of the main mics to create forward and backward distance between them and the horns. Just be sure to scoop some lows and low mids from the main mic to thin it out more.

If you find that adding the spot mic to enhance certain parts isn't enough, another way I put the spotlight on a section is by having an EQ on the track, then automating a boost in the high frequencies during their moment (or even introducing some subtle harmonic distortion/saturation), then bringing it back down.

If other instruments or brass sections are still drowning out the section you want to spotlight, you can use subtle sidechain compression on the instruments that are in the way (slow attack, slow release), where you'd have the mix knob at zero and automate the moment when you want the mix knob to bring in the compressed sound. Alternatively you can simply automate certain tracks' volumes to lower slightly, which is the same thing but has to be done manually.

Also, a tip on getting the trumpets to soar - sometimes you just need a bit of slap to emphasise the trumpets, so adding an fx send and putting in a bright reverb (with a high pass filter at about 2kHz) with a medium tail (around 1.3 sec) with the pre-delay set to 120ms or more and then blending that in will give you added cut.


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## kupo15 (Jan 26, 2021)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> I don't know about routing in Cubase but I will say that having each brass section separate is good for controlling the mix between each element (you can always add a "Brass Bus" for them later). If you're going for that concert sound, I actually recommend using just the room mic with a dash of reverb (because the room mic doesn't have the fatness of the main mic) and then using EQ to scoop out a little bit of low and low mid, then boost the 7k range with a generous Q. Meanwhile you can route the close mic to a separate track, add a bit of early reflection reverb and use that as your spotlight mic.
> 
> Also remember that each brass section doesn't need to have the same mic settings. If for example you want the horns to sound further away, you can use just the room mics for them, while having the trumpets using both the room mics and a touch of the main mics to create forward and backward distance between them and the horns. Just be sure to scoop some lows and low mids from the main mic to thin it out more.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for replying!

The sound I'm looking to achieve definitely is the sought after John Williams film score sound where things and sections can sound larger than life and you feel like you are so close to the orchestra, so not the concert sound. I came across this video by Blakas at this short segment and its the type of control I'm after (at 11:15)


He briefly explains how the spot mic is used to create that soaring sound in Star Wars and other great scores.

That makes a lot of sense to really separate out all the instruments, I'm going to do that for pretty much every instrument group in that case. So I was just thinking last night, I probably don't need to route out the main and room mics at all, just the close and OH right? Like, once I achieve my mic mix that sets them within the context of the orchestra I like, all I really have to do is boost the close mic at those moments and not touch the others? Or should I be including the main as well? I doubt I'll need to touch the room mic.

I'll play around with adding reverb to the close mic, then I still have to send that complete stem out to a reverb track with late reflection as well, right? As far as EQ to cut out the muddiness as you said, is it common practice to set a high pass filter at the lowest note in each instruments range? They shouldn't be producing frequencies below their lowest note I would think as an isolated track.

I'm definitely going to want to control the sections manually instead of a compressor, that was my entire motivation behind this so I can control the sections like they do at the scoring stage. I'm actually having the hardest time getting the strings to sound loud and good. They are constantly getting drowned out, even by the woodwinds for some reason! Like, a Bass clarinet at full sustain can overpower the cello and bass in octaves on that same note playing full or even half full! That can't be right haha


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## Cory Pelizzari (Jan 26, 2021)

You don't necessarily need to run the close mic through a late reflection as well, just listen and use your ears to decide if you want some of that late reflection sound added later as the majority of the late reflections will be going to the main mic, with the close acting as the spotlight.

You can use a high pass to tame all the instruments, yes, but with the lower instruments it's better to be more subtle with it because there are some harmonic frequencies in the low end that can enhance their sound (like the tuba and the celli for example).

Strings tend to get drowned out because they have a complex frequency range with lots of harmonics, whereas brass and woodwinds have a purer tone. So the focused frequency of a horn section will cut through some of the harmonics of the basses and celli for example and weaken their overall sound, as if someone put a blanket over them. The best way to get the strings to sit forward is to do a frequency sweep for each section (violins, violas, celli, basses) and find the most pronounced/desired area for each section, then use an EQ to cut those frequency ranges from the brass and woodwinds (start small, 0.5dB at a time with a generous Q). Then apply some soft compression to the strings (slow attack, slow release) to bring their dynamics closer together. You can also sharpen the string sound by scooping out a little bit of the 500-700Hz range and boosting the 3-4kHz range a little. Also remember that using solo strings with the ensemble strings can bring out the detail of certain legato passages and short notes, especially if you squash the solo strings into the 1-5kHz range, boost the 8kHz and blend them in to taste.


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## axb312 (Jan 26, 2021)

Do a mix vid already @Cory Pelizzari.


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## kupo15 (Jan 26, 2021)

Oh thanks for that info! So it isn't just a volume thing with the strings. So much EQ stuff I know very little about and didn't realize how much is needed for recording. I come as a classical musician and just know how awesome things sound when playing live and what works and its strange hearing balancing stuff being difficult. Things are still sounding good though, just need to work a little harder to achieve that target sound! 

I was just thinking about that solo string trick earlier in the week if that would be a good thing. It basically emulates what real orchestras do, the firsts lead the section with their sound. I don't have that library though but I'm seriously considering it

I'll give that a try as I do more experiements, in the meantime I think I can at least move forward and try to get a rough balance with these new mic routings. So if the close mic isn't getting the late reflection either, how do I setup each stem? Are each stem 100% dry sound? Basically, route the close mic separate to the rest of the mics, close goes into main stem, rest of the mics branch into reverb and main stem. This way if I need to raise the stem up, I'm also not raising up the reverb either.



axb312 said:


> Do a mix vid already @Cory Pelizzari.


seconded haha


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## Cory Pelizzari (Jan 26, 2021)

Yeah you'd have the dry stem sent to an fx track, that way you can automate the volume of the close mic separate from the send volume, or just raise both if you want the reverb to match what the instrument's doing. It can get a little tricky but having the extra flexibility can help with details.

A mix video would take much long to make and there are so many topics and styles. Many long time.


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## kupo15 (Jan 26, 2021)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> Yeah you'd have the dry stem sent to an fx track, that way you can automate the volume of the close mic separate from the send volume, or just raise both if you want the reverb to match what the instrument's doing. It can get a little tricky but having the extra flexibility can help with details.


Cool. Would it be a good idea to not use the room mic to save on ram and instead use the reverb fx to fill that job? Also would you recommend me handling the panning within Kontakt or at the aux track or is it just preference? And Im assuming the settings of the mic when you first load the VST are what the mix mic is set to? I wish there was documentation on the mix setting


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## Cory Pelizzari (Jan 26, 2021)

kupo15 said:


> Cool. Would it be a good idea to not use the room mic to save on ram and instead use the reverb fx to fill that job? Also would you recommend me handling the panning within Kontakt or at the aux track or is it just preference?


I'd say leave the panning for the audio track so you can control it after you've rendered the audio. That way you can make changes going forward rather than rendering the changes and being stuck with them. You can substitute the room mic with a good reverb if you want. Remember if you want the room to be brighter, put an EQ after the reverb and cut some lows/boost some highs.


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## kupo15 (Jan 26, 2021)

Good suggestion with the panning. Would be a pain to have to default all the panning within kontakt when it comes to rendering. Maybe I can find a way to use an FX plugin to control panning or use track panning so I can at least mix a little bit with panning in there and have be easier to bypass when rendering

Sounds good about the room! Yeah I figured I would only want to use the room mic if I wanted the performance to sound from the Sydney scoring stage directly. But if I want a little different sound to replicate say Abbey Road instead then there is no point wasting resources on using the room mic


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## Cory Pelizzari (Jan 26, 2021)

This panning plugin is insane:









Audio Plug-ins


Klevgrand is a creative studio and software company in Stockholm run by film makers, musicians, software developers, producers and sound designers.




klevgrand.se





It allows you to pan individual frequencies rather than just pulling the whole stereo image to one side.


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## JCarlsen (Jul 24, 2022)

Was this video ever made? I can't find it anywhere.


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## Joël Dollié (Jul 24, 2022)

I don't think you need to go too complicated to get a great sound, I would just adjust the mics in the libraries.

Default mixes in CSB are too small, go with room and a bit of main but quieter. Try to avoid close mics on most things unless you have to use them.

for CSW I always use a combination of room, main and OH for vibrato, the mixes vary a bit from instrument to instrument.

If you create a good mix that has nice room by default, you can just add a touch of reverb on top and have a great sound and stereo field.


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