# Which generates more income: Modern Trailer or Production Music?



## MeloKeyz (Jan 5, 2023)

Love to do both but my ears got tired a bit from modern hard hitting trailer music. Browsing several playlists in big names publishers websites I found cool genres to write for, from atmospheric soundscapes to dramatic strings to action dramatic orchestral to action night news to only drones and many more.

I wanna know in terms of frontend and backend income, is production music better than those temporary trailer music that are being placed only in film trailers and you don't hear about them again?

In BF, I bought SF BDT, CDT and 12 originals and I really need to write an entire album with them alone. They sound sweet to my ears. Love to do production music with them.


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## Uncle Peter (Jan 5, 2023)

Plinky plonky piano music always features in a top 50 most popular tracks for the month


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## David Chappell (Jan 5, 2023)

Honestly it's probably a good idea to do both


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## JimDiGritz (Jan 5, 2023)

Genuine question: is anyone making any money with either these days?


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## Uncle Ed (Jan 5, 2023)

TV music (crime shows, game shows) will generate a more sustainable income than trailer music which is a bit like casino: it takes long to produce something on par with the heavy hitters with very little chances to get a placement. But when you do get one, you break the bank (several dozen thousands on my last one.) On the other hand, production music is a number game. A few hundred tracks will bring you a decent income over time.


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## JimDiGritz (Jan 5, 2023)

Uncle Ed said:


> TV music (crime shows, game shows) will generate a more sustainable income than trailer music which is a bit like casino: it takes long to produce something on par with the heavy hitters with very little chances to get a placement. But when you do get one, you break the bank (several dozen thousands on my last one.) On the other hand, production music is a number game. A few hundred tracks will bring you a decent income over time.


Thanks for the insight! I've dipped my toe in the water and spent some time this year creating tracks for TAXI - 4 out of 16 forwarded.

I guess from the outside the production library world seems to be full of "Let me show you how to make money with trailer/cues" which always sets my alarm bells ringing since these people are clearly making way more money selling courses than creating music.... I just wondered if that difference was closer to 100%!!!


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 5, 2023)

Uncle Ed said:


> TV music (crime shows, game shows) will generate a more sustainable income than trailer music which is a bit like casino: it takes long to produce something on par with the heavy hitters with very little chances to get a placement.


Thanks for clarifying. I personally see that modern aggressive trailer takes even longer to produce with top quality. Trailers of RSM, Audiomachine, Ninja tracks and the like take a huuuge time to produce.

Although it's debatable, I find a style like this is not hard or take time to produce






Score Production Music | Score 201 Spacescapes







www.scoreproductionmusic.com


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## Roger Newton (Jan 5, 2023)

Uncle Ed is right. Providing you can write tv friendly music that a publisher can distribute with a view to making money. And providing their libraries aren't already full of what you send them. Or if they are, yours needs to be a lot better. There is rarely any front-end income in production music. It's generally all performing and mechanical royalties which happen after the event. N.B. I'm not talking about RF libraries.
If you can over a period of time, write around 150 -200 tracks and manage to get them placed with good libraries that have worldwide sub publishers, what kind of royalty income would you expect to get from that?


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 5, 2023)

Roger Newton said:


> There is rarely any front-end income in production music.


What about the sync license fee that is paid upfront? Isn't this a frontend income?


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## Soundbed (Jan 5, 2023)

MeloKeyz said:


> What about the sync license fee that is paid upfront? Isn't this a frontend income?


There are many multiples more opportunities for pure royalties and no upfront sync fees.

examples of sync fees that I know of include: national tv commercials with custom music or popular artist music. Lots of decision makers, lots of last minute changes in direction. Sort of like custom trailer music except for lots of wildly different genres and they don’t necessarily ask for it to sound “bigger” every time. 

Or, tv theme music. Competitive, hard to discern what every they want, few opportunities.

Vocal sync. For those few times in a show when they do a montage.

There’s other types of upfront cash, like when you can convince someone to front the money for a live session. Usually you need to fund a few of these for yourself first, to show what you can deliver when they fund it.

Plenty of tv media composers make a comfortable living without upfront money or sync fees; only back end royalties. I’ve done informal surveys. 

To the OP, there isn’t a clear tier structure where one makes more than the other all the time.

The trailer world is smaller and more elite and the Pareto curve of income rises steeply quickly.

The production music world has many many more participants and it’s a huge market, and the Pareto curve of income is much more gradual.

A few can get back end royalties off their trailer work, like Mark Petrie, but he is already an established known quantity and only releases I think … maybe … what, a couple dozen tracks a year? Crazy.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 5, 2023)

Alright, thank you all for taking the time and for your great answers


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## Daryl (Jan 6, 2023)

Trailer music makes more money. But forget about that for now. You have no chance, as a lone composer, working your own, and trying to find somewhere to upload your music. The thing about those $80,000 licences, is that the big trailer music production houses don't do anything else, other than trailers. Even the huge production music libraries, such as Sony, or Universal, don't get a look in.

So, if you are writing trailer music, your chance of getting a big trailer, unless with a specialised company such as Audiomachine, is close to zero.

Therefore any trailer music you write is looking to get a much lower paid usage. In which case it's just as likely to make money as any other production music.

In terms of how much you can make, it all depends on how good you are, and how good your distribution is.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 6, 2023)

Thanks @Daryl I totally understand those facts. I am doing my best to improve my writings without putting in my mind that " I must break into this trailer house or that big trailer company", No. I write because I love to write. I have the submission contacts of these big trailer companies but I won't send them anything now. I keep them for the right time. I just like to educate myself about the mentality of the sync industry and "what is the expected" just to be prepared. I am so optimistic as I witnessed the success of few composers (who used to be average composers in 2015) and have tracks in RSM and Warner Chappelle now. Their success stories gave me hope big time. 

I just keep doing what I'm doing! Thanks man


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 6, 2023)

I think the bottom line is .... Because nothing is really guaranteed in the industry, you just keep writing as if nobody gonna listen to what you write. If you love it, you just do it. This mentality alone will be in your favor and doors will be opened unexpectedly to you since you're not waiting for them to open anyways


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## José Herring (Jan 6, 2023)

I don't understand why you need to make a distinction. I know that the big boy trailers have very specialized music but trailers play everywhere. And, sometimes you're just asked to do a trailer because they want something specific. I've been asked to do trailers just based off of a film score I'm working on.
There are teasers and trailers, ect... It's all production music.

Just write music and it will end up somewhere. You really can't control where. I did some tracks and they ended up on something called The Preachers Daughters of Atlanta. Never heard of it. Hope it wasn't porn but honestly I have no control over it. Not even sure how they got my tracks. I've also been asked to do trailers. I never changed a bit my approach to doing music. I just wrote what I thought best fit what I was seeing.

Don't limit yourself. Just do it.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 6, 2023)

José Herring said:


> Just write music and it will end up somewhere.


Thanks mate, that was the statement of the month, love it. Exactly! and it happened with me when I wrote the what so-called "trailers" exclusively and non-exc. Yes I agree, they're all production music but it wasn't me who made this distinction. It was made by many sync lic. articles, YT vids by well know sync people,...etc, much like the word "Epic" is the common word in the industry. You also see hypes like these that make such distinctions. Or maybe because trailer music lends itself to be in its own category of production music. But is it a production music? Defo yes!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 6, 2023)

José Herring said:


> I did some tracks and they ended up on something called The Preachers Daughters of Atlanta. Never heard of it.


Good one! I love seeing where my music ends up. I've had an old orchestral track used in Miss Hong Kong for years, and a German TV series.


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## jcrosby (Jan 6, 2023)

Daryl said:


> Trailer music makes more money. But forget about that for now. You have no chance, as a lone composer, working your own, and trying to find somewhere to upload your music. The thing about those $80,000 licences, is that the big trailer music production houses don't do anything else, other than trailers. Even the huge production music libraries, such as Sony, or Universal, don't get a look in.
> 
> So, if you are writing trailer music, your chance of getting a big trailer, unless with a specialised company such as Audiomachine, is close to zero.
> 
> ...


That's not necessarily true. Sure it depends on the library, but there are a ton of smaller 'boutique' libraries that not only do tons of customs, but consistently license 'album' tracks to TV spots. TV spots for premium titles can easily fetch 5 figures. If anything there are more smaller, 'boutique' trailer libraries than ever, which makes sense because - there's more new content per year than at any point in history before, and In addition to movies, TV/streaming and games gross more than the film market.

In terms of these smaller companies, I've had a bunch of TV spot licenses from tracks and sound design from albums over the past couple of years. Jurassic World, Pearl, Barbarian, Nightmare Alley, and a handful of others... all over the past 18 months... The synch revenue is many times beyond the revenue you see from 'any other production music'. And while SFX don't fetch a ton on their own, they do add up over the course of a year.

This is all from a single library, (a library you don't see credited on a channel like Trailer Music Weekly, not that that means anything...) I said this in a thread last year, _small libraries can do big things_... You just need to take some risks. Search for smaller, 'boutique' trailer libraries... Look at their credits and make sure they have an impressive list of premium titles you recognize. If they do, email them. Ultimately it's no more of a risk than writing music for a massive catalog like UPM, WC, etc where your music can just as easily get lost in the noise of 10's, or 100's of thousands of music tracks...

We also did a slow burn custom for House of the Dragon for BTS cues (sneak previews, recaps, behind the scenes), not their big online campaign... (Although one of the composer's cues wound up getting cut into the intro of final trailer). It also wasn't a competitive custom, where other libraries were also in the running, it was a contracted agreement done over the course of two months, with multiple composers. The year before we had a similar gig for Raised by Wolves... In both instances all of the writers retained their backend, and the library only took a 30% cut, 70% of the budget went to the composers.

The point is that if you're writing for a library that not only love what they do, but realize they're only as good as the writers they represent, there's very good money to be earned from album tracks alone. They'll most likely also do occasional 'albums' of sound design. All it takes are a few good licenses, and/or a couple really standout pieces from you and they'll bring you onboard for custom work as well....

None of these companies have closed doors, like any other library they need writers... You absolutely do need to bring your A game though because the market is incredibly competitive, which means they have to have really, really high standards. If you reach out and submit a demo and it doesn't live up to their standards it isn't necessarily because it's bad, so much as the market is brutally competitive. Libraries that are genuinely trying to compete for the upper end of the market know they're competing with the Audiomachine, Position, etc. They're after music that has an x-factor, something that stands up to the 'audiomachines', but distinctly sets itself apart from them as well.

With all that said... It's always smartest to have a mixed approach. Find one or two boutique trailer libraries if your music can get you in the door, and have a handful of production music libraries as well that cover net you backend.


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## Epic Wonder (Jan 6, 2023)

MeloKeyz said:


> I think the bottom line is .... Because nothing is really guaranteed in the industry, you just keep writing as if nobody gonna listen to what you write. If you love it, you just do it. This mentality alone will be in your favor and doors will be opened unexpectedly to you since you're not waiting for them to open anyways


Yes, that is the way I see it. You have to love to make music regardless of the money that is made. Take pride in your work and let the rest speak for itself.


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## asherpope (Jan 6, 2023)

JimDiGritz said:


> Genuine question: is anyone making any money with either these days?


Yes


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## JohnG (Jan 6, 2023)

Write good tracks and they will make money.


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## Soundbed (Jan 7, 2023)

Write, Submit, Forget, Repeat


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## Roger Newton (Jan 7, 2023)

Most of my commercial failures always sound like a film score. Useless for production music.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 7, 2023)

Many thanks guys for chiming in and sharing your experiences regarding my question.

Although I am working on improving the writings, I am also trying to find my unique signature in my music. I am so proud of what I am doing and I am not in anyways trying to sound like "an after-money bastard". In fact, I am very happy that one of the valuable members here once gave me a feedback for a couple of tracks and highlighted that "your music is epic in its own right and it's not the usual epic that is common these days, which is a big plus for you", he said. That meant a lot to me because we need to hear statements like these from time to time to know whether if we're in the right direction or not in our music. 

Thanks again guys


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 7, 2023)

Soundbed said:


> Write, Submit, Forget, Repeat


Sometimes it goes like this (Write, Submit, Forget, Procrastinate, Repeat)


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## FrozenIcicle (Thursday at 1:11 AM)

jcrosby said:


> That's not necessarily true. Sure it depends on the library, but there are a ton of smaller 'boutique' libraries that not only do tons of customs, but consistently license 'album' tracks to TV spots. TV spots for premium titles can easily fetch 5 figures. If anything there are more smaller, 'boutique' trailer libraries than ever, which makes sense because - there's more new content per year than at any point in history before, and In addition to movies, TV/streaming and games gross more than the film market.
> 
> In terms of these smaller companies, I've had a bunch of TV spot licenses from tracks and sound design from albums over the past couple of years. Jurassic World, Pearl, Barbarian, Nightmare Alley, and a handful of others... all over the past 18 months... The synch revenue is many times beyond the revenue you see from 'any other production music'. And while SFX don't fetch a ton on their own, they do add up over the course of a year.
> 
> ...


I love this reply thank you for taking the time. As someone also trying to find the right library I must admit it’s super hard. It’s easier to pitch to the heavy hitters cause, well, they have a brand already.

Then there’s 50 other smaller libraries you have to try and analyse which one doesn’t have 100,000s of tracks and which one have more quality over quantity. You end up being being in analysis paralysis.


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## BenG (Thursday at 7:55 AM)

Both are great and as others have said; trailers are boom/bust and production music is a steady stream of income. Finding the right publishers for you and your work is essential and can drastically how many placements you get. To echo some posters here, write what you love and the money will follow 

Write, Submit, Forget, Procrastinate, *Self-Doubt*, Repeat 😂
(We should keep adding on to this haha)


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## marius_dm (Thursday at 8:01 AM)

A real job? JK

Not sure this is the greatest time to get into this stuff now with AI threatening to flood the gates with generated music. But don’t listen to me, what do I know.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Thursday at 8:01 AM)

JimDiGritz said:


> Genuine question: is anyone making any money with either these days?


Some are making over 100.000 just from TV royalties (from between 400-800 tracks in very good libraries).
But royalties naturally mostly come from older albums, the income tends to be delayed by 2-3 years after the release of the album.
So it's not 100% representative of what's possible today.
Of course 2000 tracks in less good libraries might not make you a penny. So at the end it logically will always come down to the quality of a library, I'd personally think way more so than the quality of the composer. Although that of course defines how likely one is to get into good libraries. A lot of publishers might be composers themselves or deep into music and might listen tightly!


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