# Ultimate Piano Comparison Thread



## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

Creating a new diversion for myself here and hoping it provides some value to the community.

The aim is to create a comprehensive piano comparison using high quality MIDI. Too often demos, don't offer such consistency. It can be hard to tell what to buy. Hopefully people will join up and get all the big names represented - and the small character pianos too.

I am including the MIDI that I use - as well as a full instrument and mic rundown on whichever piano I post.

The MIDI is there with the hopes you add a couple of versions yourself so that we can all get a good clear listen. If you add something please label it well - and any FX you are adding (or not adding). Feel free to post a new MIDI too, just include that file along your render.

If there is something I should add... MIDI, pianos, thread content let me know...

If this goes well, will start other threads for other instruments.

First post shortly...


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"

Vienna Imperial - Default Close Mic

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop Prelude - Vienna Imperial - Close.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Default Player Mic

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop Prelude - Vienna Imperial - Player.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Default Distant Mic

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop Prelude - Vienna Imperial - Distant.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"

VI Labs - Ravenscroft - Default Close Mic

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop Prelude - Ravenscroft - Close.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft - Default Player Mic

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop Prelude - Ravenscroft - Player.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft - Default Room Mic

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop Prelude - Ravenscroft - Room.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft - Default Side Mic

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop Prelude - Ravenscroft - Side.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1

Vienna Imperial - Default Close Mic

View attachment Schubert - Sonata in AM, I - Imperial - Close.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Default Player Mic

View attachment Schubert - Sonata in AM, I - Imperial - Player.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Default Distant Mic

View attachment Schubert - Sonata in AM, I - Imperial - Distant.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1

VI Labs - Ravenscroft - Default Close Mic

View attachment Schubert - Sonata in AM, I - Ravenscroft - Close.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft - Default Player Mic

View attachment Schubert - Sonata in AM, I - Ravenscroft - Player.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft - Default Room Mic

View attachment Schubert - Sonata in AM, I - Ravenscroft - Room.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft - Default Side Mic

View attachment Schubert - Sonata in AM, I - Ravenscroft - Side.mp3


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## Akarin (Oct 12, 2021)

This can maybe be useful. I've compared 20 libraries here:


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"

NI - Noire - Pure - Basic Preset

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Noire - Default.mp3


NI - Noire - Pure - Vibrant Preset

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Noire - Vibrant.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1

NI - Noire - Pure - Basic Preset

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Noire - Default Schubert .mp3


NI - Noire - Pure - Vibrant Preset

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Noire - Vibrant Schubert .mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

Akarin said:


> This can maybe be useful. I've compared 20 libraries here:



Always have enjoyed your reviews and demos! Feel free to add some here with the MIDI above - or your own and we can cross some good sounds back and forth.


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## Markrs (Oct 12, 2021)

Great idea!


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## yellow_lupine (Oct 12, 2021)

*Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"*

VSL - Synchron Piano *Bösendorfer Imperial* - *Player* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_bos_imp_player.mp3



VSL - Synchron Piano *Bösendorfer Imperial* - *Intimate* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_bos_imp_intimate.mp3




VSL - Synchron Piano *Bösendorfer Imperial* - *Concert* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_bos_imp_concert.mp3




VSL - Synchron Piano *Bösendorfer Imperial* - *Concert Centered* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_bos_imp_concert_center.mp3




If you have a SoundCloud account I suggest you to create a playlist with all of the actual and upcoming renderings


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

yellow_lupine said:


> *Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"*
> 
> VSL - Synchron Piano Bösendorfer Imperial - Player - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
> 
> ...


outstanding idea I will do that! thanks for the contribution


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## yellow_lupine (Oct 12, 2021)

*Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"*

VSL - Synchron Piano *Steinway D* - *Player* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_steinway_d_player_sur_stereo.mp3



VSL - Synchron Piano *Steinway D* - *Intimate* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_steinway_d_intimate_sur_stereo.mp3



VSL - Synchron Piano *Steinway D* - *Concert* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_steinway_d_concert_sur_stereo.mp3


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## doctoremmet (Oct 12, 2021)

*Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1*

_8Dio - 1985 Passionate Piano - a beautiful Yamaha C5 grand piano sample_

1985 Passionate Piano - *Main FULL* - default MIX mic position






View attachment 8Dio 1985 Passionate Piano - Yamaha C5 - MIX mic.mp3


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## FlyingAndi (Oct 12, 2021)

Maybe you could add another midi file before this thread gathers too much speed. It's a great idea to compare all pianos with the same midi, but I would love to hear a classical and a non classical (maybe some jazz?) midi for each piano.


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

FlyingAndi said:


> Maybe you could add another midi file before this thread gathers too much speed. It's a great idea to compare all pianos with the same midi, but I would love to hear a classical and a non classical (maybe some jazz?) midi for each piano.


Great idea!


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## Rob (Oct 12, 2021)

"Raindrop" Prelude - UVI Austrian Grand


View attachment Austrian_Grand_Chopin-Raindrop_Liszt_Academy.mp3


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## doctoremmet (Oct 12, 2021)

*Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1*

_UVI - Augmented Piano - Pleyel_

Augmented Piano - *Default NORMAL* - SF24 Ribbon mic






View attachment UVI Augmented Piano - Pleyel - normal - RIBBON mic.mp3


Augmented Piano - *Default NORMAL* - BK Condenser stereo pair mics

View attachment UVI Augmented Piano - Pleyel - normal - CONDENSER stereo pair mics.mp3


Augmented Piano - *Default NORMAL* - Crown PZM30D Pressure Zone mic

View attachment UVI Augmented Piano - Pleyel - normal - Crown PRESSURE ZONE mic.mp3


Augmented Piano - *Default NORMAL* - all mics turned on

View attachment UVI Augmented Piano - Pleyel - normal - full mics.mp3


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## Rossy (Oct 12, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Creating a new diversion for myself here and hoping it provides some value to the community.
> 
> The aim is to create a comprehensive piano comparison using high quality MIDI. Too often demos, don't offer such consistency. It can be hard to tell what to buy. Hopefully people will join up and get all the big names represented - and the small character pianos too.
> 
> ...


What a great idea and something I have been looking for for a long time. I am/will be in the market for a new piano and percussion library and posts like this really show you how different libraries sound with the same composition. Brilliant and I'll be adding my CFX lite in a few.


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## SupremeFist (Oct 12, 2021)

The problem as I see it with this kind of comparison is that different piano VIs all have different response curves, according to where the developers have chosen to map the dynamics across the 0-127 range.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 12, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> The problem as I see it with this kind of comparison is that different piano VIs all have different response curves, according to where the developers have chosen to map the dynamics across the 0-127 range.


This is true. These comparisons based on MIDI and not on “play the instrument to its strengths” will only be of limited use. They’re fun though! And CAN give someone a “ballpark idea” about a particular sound character…


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> The problem as I see it with this kind of comparison is that different piano VIs all have different response curves, according to where the developers have chosen to map the dynamics across the 0-127 range.


definitely - thought about matching them somehow - but seemed like a lot of work LOL. Can you think of a solution?


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

The Soundcloud playlist for easy flipping of Raindrop ... Tried to label them in a modular way so you can go from specific mic to specific mic ... Work in progress!


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## SupremeFist (Oct 12, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> definitely - thought about matching them somehow - but seemed like a lot of work LOL. Can you think of a solution?


Ha no. Every time I've recorded a piece with one piano VI and then decided to change it out for another I've ended up spending many, many hours manually editing individual velocities...


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## doctoremmet (Oct 12, 2021)

*Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1*

_Whole Sounds - 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand - UVI Falcon instrument_

1954 Parlor Grand - *Close mic (0 dB)*





View attachment Whole Sounds - 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand - CLOSE.mp3


1954 Parlor Grand - *Mid mic (0 dB)*

View attachment Whole Sounds - 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand - MID.mp3



1954 Parlor Grand - *Mono mic (0 dB)*

View attachment Whole Sounds - 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand - MONO.mp3



1954 Parlor Grand - *Far mic (0 dB)*

View attachment Whole Sounds - 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand - FAR.mp3


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## Rossy (Oct 12, 2021)

So this is the default
View attachment Mixdown.mp3




CFX lite piano with no changes


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## Rossy (Oct 12, 2021)

Sorry for my previous sloppy post, here is the Chopin with the screen shots of the settings.
View attachment Mixdown.mp3


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## doctoremmet (Oct 12, 2021)

*Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1*

_Synthogy - Ivory II 2.5 - Steinway Model B - Preset: Model B Grand Piano_

Model B Grand Piano - Default settings






View attachment Ivory II - Steinway Model B - Default.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"

IS - Pearl Concert Grand - Close Mic

View attachment Chopin - Pearl Close.mp3


IS - Pearl Concert Grand - Stage Mic

View attachment Chopin - Pearl Stage.mp3


IS - Pearl Concert Grand - Pedal Mic

View attachment Chopin - Pearl Pedal.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1

IS - Pearl Concert Grand - Close Mic

View attachment Schubert - Pearl Close.mp3


IS - Pearl Concert Grand - Stage Mic

View attachment Schubert - Pearl Stage.mp3


IS - Pearl Concert Grand - Pedal Mic

View attachment Schubert - Pearl Pedal.mp3


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 12, 2021)

This is like the worst thread for my piano library addiction. You do know that right?!

Any chance of a support group for us victims?

Great work guys and gals!


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## CGR (Oct 12, 2021)

Raindrop Prelude - Imperfect Samples Walnut Steinway Grand (Extreme) - settings attached. Close & Room mic mix (no reverb).
View attachment Imperfect Samples Walnut Grand - Chopin Raindrop Prelude.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

This is what we have so far for Rain Drop and I am out of free tracks. I may open another account LOL.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 12, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> This is what we have so far for Rain Drop and I am out of free tracks. I may open another account LOL.



Thank you for this work! 
Could you please post a plain text link, as my browser doesn't work with Soundcloud embeds for some reason.


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Thank you for this work!
> Could you please post a plain text link, as my browser doesn't work with Soundcloud embeds for some reason.


hmmmm


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## Rudianos (Oct 12, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Thank you for this work!
> Could you please post a plain text link, as my browser doesn't work with Soundcloud embeds for some reason.


hmmmm


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 12, 2021)

Oh, the forum software must be converting the links to Soundcloud into embeds automatically.
I'll find another way. Thank you nonetheless.


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## CGR (Oct 12, 2021)

Synthogy Ivory 2.5 American Concert D (a restored 1951 New York Steinway D) with the 'Audience' perspective and built in Recital Hall Reverb:
View attachment Ivory 2.5 ACD - Chopin Raindrop Prelude.mp3


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## CGR (Oct 12, 2021)

One more! Chopin Raindrop Prelude with Chocolate Audio's Model D (1939 Hamburg Steinway D) with some built in 'Ambience' reverb:
View attachment Chocolate Audio Model D - Chopin Raindrop Prelude.mp3


I noticed there is a lot of half pedalling data in the MIDI file (see attached). This piano handles it pretty well overall


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## doctoremmet (Oct 12, 2021)

*Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1*

_Meldaproduction MSoundFactory - Monastery Grand (available for free)_

Monastery Grand - Default settings - Mic A only






View attachment MSoundFactory Monastery Grand - MIKE A.mp3



Monastery Grand - Default settings - Mic B only

View attachment MSoundFactory Monastery Grand - MIKE B.mp3



Monastery Grand - Default settings - Mic C only

View attachment MSoundFactory Monastery Grand - MIKE C.mp3



Monastery Grand - "All mikes and stuff" preset (includes a dash of reverb)

View attachment MSoundFactory Monastery Grand - All mikes and stuff preset.mp3


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## doctoremmet (Oct 12, 2021)

*Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1*

_IK Multimedia - a bunch of smaller sized SampleTank 4 piano samples (presets)_






View attachment IKM Brandenburger Piano.mp3








View attachment IKM Art Deco Piano Dark.mp3


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## doctoremmet (Oct 12, 2021)

View attachment IKM Alan Parsons Imperial Dark Grand.mp3


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## doctoremmet (Oct 13, 2021)

*Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1*

_Art Vista - Virtual Grand Piano 3 - with some reverb dialed in to taste (and no pedal noises) - a 1960 Hamburg Steinway Model B_






View attachment Art Vista - VGP3 - Steinway Model B - doctoremmet preset with hall.mp3


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## doctoremmet (Oct 13, 2021)

*Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1*

_Versillian - Joachim's Piano - another gorgeous Steinway Model B (it may have become my favourite of the whole bunch - so much character) - dialed in the room mic to taste




_

View attachment Versillian - Joachim's Piano - Steinway Model B - doctoremmet preset with room mic.mp3


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## Alex C (Oct 13, 2021)

Rob said:


> "Raindrop" Prelude - UVI Austrian Grand
> 
> 
> View attachment Austrian_Grand_Chopin-Raindrop_Liszt_Academy.mp3


Wow! This surprised me. It sounds much better than the official demos on their site.


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## yellow_lupine (Oct 13, 2021)

*Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1*

VSL - Synchron Piano *Steinway D* - *Player* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_steinway_d_player_sur_stereo.mp3



VSL - Synchron Piano *Steinway D* - *Intimate* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_steinway_d_intimate_sur_stereo.mp3



VSL - Synchron Piano *Steinway D* - *Concert* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_steinway_d_concert_sur_stereo.mp3


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## yellow_lupine (Oct 13, 2021)

*Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1*

VSL - Synchron *Bösendorfer* *Imperial* - *Player* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_bosendorfer_imperial_player_sur_stereo.mp3



VSL - Synchron *Bösendorfer Imperial* - *Intimate* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_bosendorfer_imperial_intimate_sur_stereo.mp3



VSL - Synchron *Bösendorfer Imperial* - *Concert* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_bosendorfer_imperial_concert_sur_stereo.mp3



VSL - Synchron *Bösendorfer Imperial* - *Concert Centered* - Surround to Stereo (pedal noise: -20dB)
View attachment vsl_bosendorfer_imperial_concert_centered_sur_stereo.mp3


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## doctoremmet (Oct 13, 2021)

*Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1*

_Fluffy Audio - Scoring Piano - Steinway Model B - Main patch - MIX mic_






View attachment Fluffy Audio - Scoring Piano - MIX mic.mp3


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## Virtuoso (Oct 13, 2021)

I came at this from the perspective of "How good can I make this sound?", so I picked the best pianos for tone, clarity and dynamics to suit the piece and made a few tweaks until I was happy with the results.

The signal chain is Synchron Pianos (player perspective with just the close mics) into a hardware Bricasti M7, then the TC MD4 plugin.

Synchron Bösendorfer 280VC:-
View attachment Chopin 280VC.mp3


Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial:-
View attachment Chopin Imperial.mp3







(@yellow_lupine - you need to tweak the Half Pedal Range on the Edit page in Synchron Pianos to suit the performance. In your recordings, too many pedal-sustained notes are coming out as staccato. For the Chopin, I used 0-75.)


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## Rudianos (Oct 13, 2021)

Wonderful submissions - such a lovely selection of pianos and FX. We are all learning from this... BTW if anyone has a good jazz and rock MIDI - or can record one - please post them. We can widen out styles on these lovely pianos.


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## Rob (Oct 13, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Wonderful submissions - such a lovely selection of pianos and FX. We are all learning from this... BTW if anyone has a good jazz and rock MIDI - or can record one - please post them. We can widen out styles on these lovely pianos.


I have just posted the midi of me playing B. Evans' "waltz for Debby", don't know if it can be it... you were maybe thinking something more swinging, don't know. Here it is, just in case...



https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/waltzfordebby-mid.59269/


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## Tim_Wells (Oct 13, 2021)

Alex C said:


> Wow! This surprised me. It sounds much better than the official demos on their site.


Yeah, me too. (_UVI Austrian Grand_)

While I agree with the comment about velocity curves ultimately being an issue, never-the-less, it is a VERY helpful thread to me. I can quickly identify the characteristics I like and don't like.


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## Rudianos (Oct 13, 2021)

Rob said:


> I have just posted the midi of me playing B. Evans' "waltz for Debby", don't know if it can be it... you were maybe thinking something more swinging, don't know. Here it is, just in case...
> 
> 
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/waltzfordebby-mid.59269/


thank you much for that lovely rendering. I will make some submissions with it shortly.


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## Rudianos (Oct 13, 2021)

Waltz for Debby - Bill Evans - Rob on piano (Fantastic thank you!)!!!

Vienna Imperial - Default Close Mic

View attachment Waltz for Debby - Vienna Imperial - Close.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft - Default Close, Player Mic

View attachment Waltz for Debby - Ravenscroft 275 - Close, Player.mp3


NI - Noire - Pure - Basic Preset

View attachment Waltz for Debby - Noire Pure - Default.mp3


SS Omnisphere - Keyscape - LA Custom C7 - Ballad

View attachment Waltz for Debbie - Keyscape - C7 - Ballad.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 13, 2021)

Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"

SS Omnisphere - Keyscape - LA Custom C7 - Default

View attachment Raindrop - Keyscape C7 Default.mp3


SS Omnisphere - Keyscape - LA Custom C7 - Classical


View attachment Raindrop - Keyscape C7 Clasical.mp3





Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1

SS Omnisphere - Keyscape - LA Custom C7 - Default


View attachment Schubert - Keyscape C7 Default.mp3


SS Omnisphere - Keyscape - LA Custom C7 - Classical


View attachment Schubert - Keyscape C7 Clasical.mp3


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## poly6 (Oct 13, 2021)

Very helpful and interesting thread. Don't know why it's never been done before. Thanks to all those people with way more Piano VSTs and money than I have


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## Rob (Oct 13, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Waltz for Debby - Bill Evans - Rob on piano (Fantastic thank you!)!!!
> 
> Vienna Imperial - Default Close Mic
> 
> ...


I like Noire and the Imperial more than the others in this style... interesting


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## yellow_lupine (Oct 13, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> (@yellow_lupine - you need to tweak the Half Pedal Range on the Edit page in Synchron Pianos to suit the performance. In your recordings, too many pedal-sustained notes are coming out as staccato. For the Chopin, I used 0-75.)


Thanks for your suggestion, I have updated my original post with updated recordings: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/ultimate-piano-comparison-thread.115615/post-4934465


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## CGR (Oct 13, 2021)

Rob said:


> I have just posted the midi of me playing B. Evans' "waltz for Debby", don't know if it can be it... you were maybe thinking something more swinging, don't know. Here it is, just in case...
> 
> 
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/waltzfordebby-mid.59269/


Lovely playing Rob. Here it is with the Imperfect Samples Walnut Grand (Extreme) - Close + Room mics:
View attachment Waltz for Debby - Walnut Grand Extreme - Close+Room.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 13, 2021)

CGR said:


> 3
> 
> Lovely playing Rob. Here it is with the Walnut Grand Extreme - Close + Room mics:


have to say that Walnut Grand has made the Black Friday list. 100%... gorgeous. Has such a warmth that would compliment Vienna Imperial. Thanks for the share. Never even knew about it!


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## CGR (Oct 13, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> have to say that Walnut Grand has made the Black Friday list. 100%... gorgeous. Has such a warmth that would compliment Vienna Imperial. Thanks for the share. Never even knew about it!


Yes, it really has some magic. I've played a few times an almost identical Walnut Hamburg Steinway D from the early 1900's (it was own by a wealthy Lawyer/investor who loved music, but didn't play himself!) and the Imperfect Samples piano is a very accurate representation of what I remember.

I wouldn't hold any hopes for a Black Friday sale. The last sale I recall was about 4 years ago around Easter (50% off), but the developer Matt has not been active on any forums for years (although I did see a comment he made on a YouTube video about 6 months ago stating there was a new grand piano in the works for this year, so who knows).


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## CGR (Oct 13, 2021)

Rob said:


> I have just posted the midi of me playing B. Evans' "waltz for Debby", don't know if it can be it... you were maybe thinking something more swinging, don't know. Here it is, just in case...
> 
> 
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/waltzfordebby-mid.59269/


Waltz for Debby with the Teletone Golden Age Grand (ideal for this style of tune & playing IMO):
Great work @Teletone Audio  (and Rob for the playing!)
View attachment Waltz for Debby - Teletone Golden Age Grand.mp3


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## CGR (Oct 13, 2021)

One more of the Waltz for Debby track. Piano Premier (a smaller grand - Hamburg Steinway Model O-180cm):
View attachment Waltz for Debby - Premier Piano Steinway Model O.mp3


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## Virtuoso (Oct 13, 2021)

Rob said:


> I have just posted the midi of me playing B. Evans' "waltz for Debby"


Beautifully played! 

Here it is on the Synchron Imperial (Condenser, Ribbon, Main & Surround mics)
View attachment Waltz for Debby Imperial.mp3

And the Synchron Blüthner (Condenser, Ribbon, Mid2, Surround mics)
View attachment Waltz for Debby Blüthner.mp3


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## sostenuto (Oct 13, 2021)

CGR said:


> One more of the Waltz for Debby track. Piano Premier (a smaller grand - Hamburg Steinway Model O-180cm):
> View attachment Waltz for Debby - Premier Piano Steinway Model O.mp3


Luv 'em all, yet this song, on this smaller grand, is darned special ........ imho THX !


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## PaulieDC (Oct 13, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Thank you for this work!
> Could you please post a plain text link, as my browser doesn't work with Soundcloud embeds for some reason.


Here you go--add https + colon + slash slash to this:

soundcloud.com/user-126242704/chopin-raindrop-prelude-ni-1?utm_source=clipboard&utm_campaign=wtshare&utm_medium=widget&utm_content=https%253A%252F%252Fsoundcloud.com%252Fuser-126242704%252Fchopin-raindrop-prelude-ni-1


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## Kent (Oct 13, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Here you go--add https + colon + slash slash to this:
> 
> soundcloud.com/user-126242704/chopin-raindrop-prelude-ni-1?utm_source=clipboard&utm_campaign=wtshare&utm_medium=widget&utm_content=https%253A%252F%252Fsoundcloud.com%252Fuser-126242704%252Fchopin-raindrop-prelude-ni-1


You can probably delete everything after & including the ?


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 13, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Here you go--add https + colon + slash slash to this:
> 
> soundcloud.com/user-126242704/chopin-raindrop-prelude-ni-1?utm_source=clipboard&utm_campaign=wtshare&utm_medium=widget&utm_content=https%253A%252F%252Fsoundcloud.com%252Fuser-126242704%252Fchopin-raindrop-prelude-ni-1


Appreciated.


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## Rudianos (Oct 13, 2021)

https:// soundcloud.com/user-126242704/sets/ultimate-piano-comparison?si=0005c06835044e6f93130c55da3a9295


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## Rudianos (Oct 13, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Appreciated.


remove spaces in front of soundcloud for the master link


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## Rudianos (Oct 13, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> I came at this from the perspective of "How good can I make this sound?", so I picked the best pianos for tone, clarity and dynamics to suit the piece and made a few tweaks until I was happy with the results.
> 
> The signal chain is Synchron Pianos (player perspective with just the close mics) into a hardware Bricasti M7, then the TC MD4 plugin.


Probably the most clear tone I have ever heard those Synchrons sound like - thanks so much for sharing those!


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## Rudianos (Oct 13, 2021)

CGR said:


> Yes, it really has some magic. I've played a few times an almost identical Walnut Hamburg Steinway D from the early 1900's (it was own by a wealthy Lawyer/investor who loved music, but didn't play himself!) and the Imperfect Samples piano is a very accurate representation of what I remember.
> 
> I wouldn't hold any hopes for a Black Friday sale. The last sale I recall was about 4 years ago around Easter (50% off), but the developer Matt has not been active on any forums for years (although I did see a comment he made on a YouTube video about 6 months ago stating there was a new grand piano in the works for this year, so who knows).


just picked it up - you live only once - hear something like that and you have to have it. Ill take a real one too ... someday


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## CGR (Oct 13, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Luv 'em all, yet this song, on this smaller grand, is darned special ........ imho THX !


Another render with a mix of the Close ("Crystal") and Stage mics, plus some EW Spaces reverb:
View attachment Waltz for Debby - Premier Piano Close + Stage mics.mp3


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## PaulieDC (Oct 13, 2021)

kmaster said:


> You can probably delete everything after & including the ?


That's true!


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## PaulieDC (Oct 13, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> https:// soundcloud.com/user-126242704/sets/ultimate-piano-comparison?si=0005c06835044e6f93130c55da3a9295


DUH. I should have just done that.


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## yellow_lupine (Oct 13, 2021)

Does anyone have Imperfect Samples Ebony Extreme? It would be very interesting to compare it with others


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## PaulieDC (Oct 14, 2021)

OK, Waltz for Debby... I picked 5 presets across my libraries that are more intimate which I think suits this great tune (and wonderfully played). Not sure which piano I like most, I'd be interested in what others think.

*VSL 280VC Intimate Preset*
FabFilter EQ on the channel, small 2db cut at 750Hz
No changes in preset:
View attachment VSL 280VC Intimate.mp3



*VSL CFX Intimate Preset*
FabFilter EQ on the channel, small 2db cut at 600Hz
Change in preset: increase volume 4db
View attachment VSL CFX Intimate.mp3



*Garritan CFX (Full) Contemporary Default Preset*
Changes in preset: turned off Limiter, increased volume 2db
(no EQ or Reverb turned on, just room ambience):
View attachment Garritan CFX Contemporary.mp3



*Garritan CFX (Full) Classic Default Preset*
Changes in preset: turned off Limiter, increased volume 2db
(no EQ or Reverb turned on, just room ambience):
View attachment Garritan CFX Contemporary.mp3



*EastWest QL Steinway Platinum Master DYN Preset (Player mic only)*
FabFilter EQ on the channel, small 2db cut at 600Hz
Changes in preset: Reverb turned off, volume boosted about 3db
Sent dry piano to Lexicon PCM RandomHall Reverb (my own recipe, love it or hate it, lol):
View attachment EW Steinway.mp3


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## PaulieDC (Oct 14, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> ...you need to tweak the Half Pedal Range on the Edit page in Synchron Pianos to suit the performance. In your recordings, too many pedal-sustained notes are coming out as staccato. For the Chopin, I used 0-75...


Whoa, this is good, I learned something! 👍🏼 Was never sure what the half-pedal thing was.


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## PaulieDC (Oct 14, 2021)

poly6 said:


> Very helpful and interesting thread. Don't know why it's never been done before. Thanks to all those people with way more Piano VSTs and money than I have


Which pianos do you own currently? If you don't mind me asking of course.


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## PaulieDC (Oct 14, 2021)

Rob said:


> I like Noire and the Imperial more than the others in this style... interesting


You played that wonderfully. Scroll up a few posts, I ran it with 5 different presets and you made them all sound good.


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## CGR (Oct 14, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> OK, Waltz for Debby... I picked 5 presets across my libraries that are more intimate which I think suits this great tune (and wonderfully played). Not sure which piano I like most, I'd be interested in what others think.
> 
> *VSL 280VC Intimate Preset*
> FabFilter EQ on the channel, small 2db cut at 750Hz
> ...


Garritan CFX Classic for me out of these. The VSL pianos are too harsh in these examples on this tune, but of course, velocity scaling & dynamic settings could alleviate this.


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## CGR (Oct 14, 2021)

FWIW, I really like how the Teletone Golden Age Grand handles this piece. Warm and round with enough dynamic variation to suit the tune. The Imperfect Samples Walnut Grand also does well (and with a little dynamics reduction it would translate even better). Ditto for the Premier Piano Hamburg Steinway model O.


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## poly6 (Oct 14, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Which pianos do you own currently? If you don't mind me asking of course.


My baby is a 5'10" Kawai RX-2 "Millenium Edition" that no virtual piano can replace.

Oh you mean VIRTUAL pianos . I have more than I need and fewer than I want. I have the ones from Native Instruments Komplete (Grandeur, Giant, Gentleman, Maverick as well as Alicia's Keys). I also have Addictive Keys (which was my first actual piano VST that I used a lot) and Cinepiano (which was a disappointment if you saw my thread in the Tech Support forum). But my current go to is Garritan CFX Lite. My most recent addition is Xperimenta Due and I've really liked its tone though it's not suitable for everything. I've tried a few others a few years back that I've since deleted (I think they were Sonivox's Eighty Eight and UVI's Silver Grand or something). Beyond those I've tried a few free piano VSTs like Spitfire Audio's Soft Piano.

So I've definitely got a collection but mostly on the lower end of the spectrum compared to the vast high-end libraries that some of you guys have. 

After listening to all these demos, I might add 1 or 2 more to my collection later this year but it's hard for me to justify the cost of some of these as I don't do music professionally, just as a "hobby".


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## CGR (Oct 14, 2021)

poly6 said:


> My baby is a 5'10" Kawai RX-2 "Millenium Edition" that no virtual piano can replace.


A fine piano! I've grown more fond of the Kawai grands over the years. It would record well too


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 14, 2021)

CGR said:


> A fine piano! I've grown more fond of the Kawai grands over the years. It would record well too



That would be my wet dream: a house in the country with a library and in it, a Shigeru-Kawai SK-EX...


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## CGR (Oct 14, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> That would be my wet dream: a house in the country with a library and in it, a Shigeru-Kawai SK-EX...


I've never played an EX but played a Shigeru-Kawai SK-6 a few times. Amazing piano. Build quality was superb and the tone and action made me a better player.


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## cedricm (Oct 14, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Creating a new diversion for myself here and hoping it provides some value to the community.
> 
> The aim is to create a comprehensive piano comparison using high quality MIDI. Too often demos, don't offer such consistency. It can be hard to tell what to buy. Hopefully people will join up and get all the big names represented - and the small character pianos too.
> 
> ...


How do you go about reverb? Are you using the VSTi's one or 3rd party? What parameters?


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## Rob (Oct 14, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> OK, Waltz for Debby... I picked 5 presets across my libraries that are more intimate which I think suits this great tune (and wonderfully played). Not sure which piano I like most, I'd be interested in what others think.
> 
> *VSL 280VC Intimate Preset*
> FabFilter EQ on the channel, small 2db cut at 750Hz
> ...


thank you Paulie, of these probably Garritan Cfx and (surprise!) EW Steinway, surprisingly good...


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## Rob (Oct 14, 2021)

CGR said:


> One more of the Waltz for Debby track. Piano Premier (a smaller grand - Hamburg Steinway Model O-180cm):
> View attachment Waltz for Debby - Premier Piano Steinway Model O.mp3


thanks Craig, this is probably my favorite of the bunch... very warm and clean


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## SupremeFist (Oct 14, 2021)

CGR said:


> One more of the Waltz for Debby track. Piano Premier (a smaller grand - Hamburg Steinway Model O-180cm):
> View attachment Waltz for Debby - Premier Piano Steinway Model O.mp3


There I was thinking I'd bought enough pianos for a while but no, I need this one now.


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## CGR (Oct 14, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> There I was thinking I'd bought enough pianos for a while but no, I need this one now.


Sorry mate!


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## doctoremmet (Oct 14, 2021)

Craig Richards and Simeon Amburgey have sold more piano libraries than all walkthrough videos of all vendors combined.


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## CGR (Oct 14, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Craig Richards and Simeon Amburgey have sold more piano libraries than all walkthrough videos of all vendors combined.


Thing is, Simon gets them Gratis. I've paid for all of mine!!


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## doctoremmet (Oct 14, 2021)

CGR said:


> Thing is, Simon gets them Gratis. I've paid for all of mine!!


Which arguably makes you the best (and slightly tragic) sales person of them all. For what it’s worth: I have sold some people on a synth or two, and I did buy ALL of those as well. With real non-influencer money hehe.


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## CGR (Oct 14, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Which arguably makes you the best (and slightly tragic) sales person of them all. For what it’s worth: I have sold some people on a synth or two, and I did buy ALL of those as well. With real non-influencer money hehe.


Ha! I may be slightly tragic but at least I'm in good company Temme!


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## Rudianos (Oct 14, 2021)

cedricm said:


> How do you go about reverb? Are you using the VSTi's one or 3rd party? What parameters?


No 3rd party reverb here in these examples - just default load ups. I think Vienna has a touch of verb on default. All is just as it would be if loaded for the first time.


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## Tim_Wells (Oct 14, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> I doubt if uploading Pianoteq examples would be beneficial for this thread, but if there is interest.. I own (almost) all instruments.


I would like to hear them, just for comparison sake. TIA...


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 14, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> I would like to hear them, just for comparison sake. TIA...



I'll see what I can do.


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 14, 2021)

Because of an apparent copyright infringement on Soundcloud for the Shubert and Bill Evans piece, I wasn't able to upload it there unfortunately  And it seems not all Chopin's made it to the playlist 

That's capitalism for you.

In light of this, I've decided to pull all my entries from Soundcloud and deleted my posts in this thread. I don't want to deal with any issues on Soundcloud due to copyright issues.

I'll have a look at uploading the files again directly onto the forum.


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## Rudianos (Oct 14, 2021)

Thought we could ramp up some speed and do an agility test with ...

Albeniz - Prelude (Exposition) - _Chants_ d'Espagne

NI - Noire - Pure - Basic Preset

View attachment Albeniz - Prelude Exposition - Noire Pure Basic.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Default Close Mic

View attachment Albeniz - Prelude Exposition - Vienna Default Close.mp3


Vienna Imperial - No Factory Verb Close Mic

View attachment Albeniz - Prelude Exposition - Vienna Close.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft - Default Close Mic

View attachment Albeniz - Prelude Exposition - Ravenscroft.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft - Close 100%, Room 50% Mic, Factory Close Piano Hall Verb 100 Dry, 78 Wet

View attachment Albeniz - Prelude Exposition - Ravenscroft - Close Room Verb.mp3



MIDI in following post.


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## Rudianos (Oct 14, 2021)

Albeniz - Prelude (Exposition) - _Chants_ d'Espagne MIDI


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## PaulieDC (Oct 14, 2021)

CGR said:


> Garritan CFX Classic for me out of these. The VSL pianos are too harsh in these examples on this tune, but of course, velocity scaling & dynamic settings could alleviate this.


I agree... VSL pianos are kind of a love/hate because the detail and configuration is insanely good, but there's something about those walls in that Teldex building that are hard-sounding. That's why I apply a slight dip in the mids on those, to try an soften the mid-fatigue.

No matter what I play, I always always come back to Garritan CFX Classic.


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## PaulieDC (Oct 14, 2021)

poly6 said:


> My baby is a 5'10" Kawai RX-2 "Millenium Edition" that no virtual piano can replace.


NICE!! Nothing more to say...


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## PaulieDC (Oct 14, 2021)

Rob said:


> thank you Paulie, of these probably Garritan Cfx and (surprise!) EW Steinway, surprisingly good...


That one surprised me too. I had to drag it over from my RAID archive drive because I don't keep the EW Pianos on my SSDs at 292GB, but I had a feeling, and it's not bad for this piece at all!


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## CGR (Oct 14, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I agree... VSL pianos are kind of a love/hate because the detail and configuration is insanely good, but there's something about those walls in that Teldex building that are hard-sounding. That's why I apply a slight dip in the mids on those, to try an soften the mid-fatigue.
> 
> No matter what I play, I always always come back to Garritan CFX Classic.


I'm a big fan of the VSL Synchron pianos (sampled on their own Synchron Stage in Vienna, not the Teldex Scoring Stage which Orchestral Tools use, which is a warmer and more "lush" sounding space to my ears).

The VSL sampling detail and precision is unmatched and playability is superb, but the Synchron pianos are not my first choice for a warm, lyrical jazz tune. Alternatively, their older Vienna Imperial sampled on the Silent Stage is better suited, especially with the Close or Player mic set.


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## Rudianos (Oct 14, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Because of an apparent copyright infringement on Soundcloud for the Shubert and Bill Evans piece, I wasn't able to upload it there unfortunately  And it seems not all Chopin's made it to the playlist
> 
> That's capitalism for you.
> 
> ...


LOL stupid SoundCloud, it said Schubert was from a Grammophone Album. IDK if it is worth challenging. Schubert: Piano Sonata No.13 in A Major, D.664 - 1. Allegro moderato... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TDTZAY/ref=dm_ws_ps_adp (Radu Lupu)


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## cedricm (Oct 14, 2021)

Last updated: October 16th, 2021, 18:49, UTC+2

Here is a list of lossless files (FLAC).

In order to facilitate the comparison, I adjusted the loudness of each item to -23 LUFS, +/- 0.1 dB, 1dBTP.

I kept default configuration as much as possible, e.g. when there is a default reverb, there is reverb, and so forth.

Note that Piano libraries with many articulations, such as those of East West, are at a disadvantage since the midi files do not take advantage of them.

EWQL Pianos: after rereading the manual, it clearly states that the Room Mic should not be used alone.
So I provide a mix of the 3 Mics (Player, Room, Close) as close as possible to the one chosen for comparisons on their site: http://www.soundsonline.com/pianos





File ending:
Raindrop: Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"
Sonata: Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1
Walz: Waltz for Debby - Bill Evans

So far, there are 78 files, for a total of about 2 GB.

*Link to the folder: https://tinyurl.com/PianoComparison*

By default, files are shown as tiles, I recommend to show by List, to see the whole file name:
Editor-PianoName-Mic/Preset-Music

List follows: can't publish post > 10k characters.


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## Rudianos (Oct 14, 2021)

cedricm said:


> Here is a list of lossless files (FLAC).


Legend!!!


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## PaulieDC (Oct 14, 2021)

After that massive list I feel like a dweeb posting ONE lol...

I was intrigued how my dusty unused EW Steinway sounded quite decent with Waltz for Debby. So I ran the Shubert piece through it and did a proper mix with a _slight_ cut at 600Hz and 3KHz on the channel, then a +11 boost on Mid and High with Slate's Fresh Air (best free plugin as long as it's not overdone, and +11 is NOT a lot for that plugin), then a FabFilter MB Compressor on the mixbuss with a small 1db mastering preset on it. I also increased the pregain +4db... blah blah blah. Ran it dry, but sent it to my own reverb (not the built-in), and I'm pretty happy with a piano library that I had buried in the backyard. See what you think. Perfectly OK if it's not your flavor of the day, but it's not the worst piano VST I've owned. It probably needs a bit more shaping (and I just discovered it's left-heavy in the mix, duh), what I did was simple and quick:

View attachment Shubert on EW Steinway.mp3


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## PaulieDC (Oct 15, 2021)

cedricm said:


> How do you go about reverb? Are you using the VSTi's one or 3rd party? What parameters?


Sorry, I don't think this got answered! Obviously there can be 38,691 answers to that question since it's subjective. HOWEVER, here's a setting to try to add a nice reverb to piano and orchestra. It's *A* suggestion, not *THE *suggestion... just a place to start (expecting some darts to fling, lol!):

*Use a Hall reverb with room size between 3.2-3.8*. Maybe your DAW has a hall reverb built in. Valhalla I think is only $50 and people say it's great.

*I put Pre-Delay at 25ms.* Because the audience is listening from a bit of a distance they get all room with the source sound. Only with vocals to I crank that up to 120ms or so.

*Mix at 100% Wet.* Obviously, because you'll set the reverb up in an FX channel and use a Send from your instrument channels.

*On the FX Channel, add an EQ*: Put it _right after the Reverb in the FX channel_ with two settings: a High-Pass filter at about 500Hz-600Hz at -24db/oct, and a Low Pass Filter at about 6KHz, again at -24db/Oct. You want to get rid of the mud and the third-order harmonics and whatever else flies around above 6KHz. Then your reverb will be sweet and clean. A lot of reverbs have an EQ built-in, like Waves H-Reverb.

From your instrument channel, create a Send to the reverb and play with the level of the Send until it all sounds "right". It's rare I'll send past 50% but that may be how Cubase and my Lexicon reverb work together.

So here's a statement that should start an argument, lol: I really really like the Lexicon sound. Others don't and it's usually love or hate. But there's a way to get a great orchestral reverb without spending $700 for the Lexicon PCM: Get the $109 MPX-i version. It has ONLY presets, you can't adjust anything, but you get the Lexicon sound if you want it. There's a specific preset that works great along with putting the stock EQ from your DAW after it. I just set it up in Studio One to take screenshots. Here's the preset on the cheap Lexicon:






Then I used the stock Pro-EQ in Studio One to set up the EQ after it. You will also see a slight dip at 2KHz, you can do that if you wish. I do because it's part of what's called the Abbey Road Reverb trick, but it doesn't make that much of an impact. Overall, this cleans up the reverb nicely:






So there's a place to start, 3.X on the room, filter out high and low junk and see how it works for you.

Oh, to add fuel to the fire, Christian Henson picked the Lexicon as his favorite reverb in a blindfolded shootout he did with Jake Jackson... probably regrets ever doing the video, lol! Here's the winning moment:


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## cedricm (Oct 16, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Sorry, I don't think this got answered! Obviously there can be 38,691 answers to that question since it's subjective. HOWEVER, here's a setting to try to add a nice reverb to piano and orchestra. It's *A* suggestion, not *THE *suggestion... just a place to start (expecting some darts to fling, lol!):
> 
> *Use a Hall reverb with room size between 3.2-3.8*. Maybe your DAW has a hall reverb built in. Valhalla I think is only $50 and people say it's great.
> 
> ...



I'll give your suggestions a try when I have more time.
Ideally, I think it would be interesting to produce files where we all use the same reverb/reverb parameters, possibly EQ, plus same approximate loudness, to make the VSTis pianos "as comparable as possible".
Although I think it's very valid to use default settings too, as this probably shows one config as intended by the developers.


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## poly6 (Oct 16, 2021)

Like PaulieDC, here's my simple single contribution to this great thread. Waltz for Debbie with Xperimenta Due "First Piano". There's not much talk about Xperimenta Due in VI-Control but I like it.

View attachment Waltz for Debbie - Xperimenta Due.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

Thanks for the continued submissions to the thread. We want every piano rendered if we could. Making history everyone! Best. More MIDI recordings are processing. If anyone has some rock and jazz bits, classical, baroque ... happy to have them here.


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

poly6 said:


> Like PaulieDC, here's my simple single contribution to this great thread. Waltz for Debbie with Xperimenta Due "First Piano". There's not much talk about Xperimenta Due in VI-Control but I like it.
> 
> View attachment Waltz for Debbie - Xperimenta Due.mp3


I like it too - very nice sound - like sitting back in a comfortable recliner sipping scotch - so warm.


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Sorry, I don't think this got answered! Obviously there can be 38,691 answers to that question since it's subjective. HOWEVER, here's a setting to try to add a nice reverb to piano and orchestra. It's *A* suggestion, not *THE *suggestion... just a place to start (expecting some darts to fling, lol!):
> 
> *Use a Hall reverb with room size between 3.2-3.8*. Maybe your DAW has a hall reverb built in. Valhalla I think is only $50 and people say it's great.


Thanks so much for this help on reverb. Often times I will just take the stock verb because I have not yet mastered my own verb. I do have Altiverb and this video helped me last night tweak it. You cover a lot of things too that I incorporated. Work in progress.


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## quickbrownf0x (Oct 16, 2021)

At one time Ivory II was on my list, but then I came across the Embertone Walker 1955 and (the occasional) Noire and haven't looked back since. Having said that - I just listened to it again, and thinking 'man, that would sound even better through my Seventh Heaven...'. So maybe _one more_ piano library and then I think I'm pretty much set for life. _Maybe_. 

*Edit
Yeah, definitely - listening to all of these, aside from Ivory and the Synchron Imperial maybe, to me that Walker still takes the cake. As for the Yamaha's... I've never liked the tone of them, sampled or no. Way too bright.


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## cedricm (Oct 16, 2021)

(Continued from https://vi-control.net/community/threads/ultimate-piano-comparison-thread.115615/post-4936431 ) because of the 10k character limits.


PieceEditorPianoMicReverbAdjustmentRaindropEWBechstein 280PlayerEW Hall LR3,0 dBRaindropEWBechstein 280CloseEW Hall LR4,2 dBRaindropEWBechstein 280MixEW Hall LR2,5 dBRaindropEWBösendorfer 290PlayerEW Hall LR9,8 dBRaindropEWBösendorfer 290CloseEW Hall LR10,6 dBRaindropEWBösendorfer 290MixEW Hall LR8,6 dBRaindropEWSteinway DPlayerEW Hall LR14,6 dBRaindropEWSteinway DCloseEW Hall LR16,0 dBRaindropEWSteinway DMixEW Hall LR14,3 dBRaindropEWYamaha C7PlayerEW Hall LR4,9 dBRaindropEWYamaha C7CloseEW Hall LR4,9 dBRaindropEWYamaha C7MixEW Hall LR4,6 dBRaindropSampleTekkRain Piano MkIINone5,6 dBRaindropSampleTekkTVBO Yamaha C7Neumann SM2Large Hall7,4 dBRaindropSampleTekkTVBO Yamaha C7Neumann U89 x2Large Hall6,0 dBRaindropSampleTekkTVBO Yamaha C7Neumann SM2+U89Large Hall6,8 dBRaindropSonuscoreThe Orchestra Grand PianoLid ClosedConcert Hall 17,4 dBRaindropSonuscoreThe Orchestra Grand PianoLid OpenConcert Hall 17,7 dBRaindropSoundMagicPiano One-6,7 dBRaindropNative InstrumentsThe GiantBasic Giant6,4 dBRaindropNative InstrumentsThe MaverickBasic Maverick13,2 dBRaindropNative InstrumentsThe GrandeurBasic Grandeur5,5 dBRaindropNative InstrumentsThe GentlemanBasic Gentleman6,3 dBRaindropNative InstrumentsNoire PureBasic Pure17,0 dBRaindropChristianHensonFamilyGrand14,5 dBRaindropPresonusStudio Grand-8,6 dBSonataEWBechstein 280PlayerEW Hall LR2,9 dBSonataEWBechstein 280CloseEW Hall LR4,1 dBSonataEWBechstein 280MixEW Hall LR2,3 dBSonataEWBösendorfer 290PlayerEW Hall LR9,6 dBSonataEWBösendorfer 290CloseEW Hall LR10,3 dBSonataEWBösendorfer 290MixEW Hall LR8,8 dBSonataEWSteinway DPlayerEW Hall LR14,2 dBSonataEWSteinway DCloseEW Hall LR14,7 dBSonataEWSteinway DMixEW Hall LR13,4 dBSonataEWYamaha C7PlayerEW Hall LR3,1 dBSonataEWYamaha C7CloseEW Hall LR3,3 dBSonataEWYamaha C7MixEW Hall LR2,8 dBSonataSampleTekkRain Piano MkIINone2,8 dBSonataSampleTekkTVBO Yamaha C7Neumann SM2Large Hall6,0 dBSonataSampleTekkTVBO Yamaha C7Neumann U89 x2Large Hall4,2 dBSonataSampleTekkTVBO Yamaha C7Neumann SM2+U89Large Hall5,6 dBSonataSonuscoreThe Orchestra Grand PianoLid ClosedConcert Hall 15,2 dBSonataSonuscoreThe Orchestra Grand PianoLid OpenConcert Hall 15,7 dBSonataSoundMagicPiano One-8,3 dBSonataNative InstrumentsThe GiantBasic Giant5,0 dBSonataNative InstrumentsThe MaverickBasic Maverick12,2 dBSonataNative InstrumentsThe GrandeurBasic Grandeur4,2 dBSonataNative InstrumentsThe GentlemanBasic Gentleman5,8 dBSonataNative InstrumentsNoire PureBasic Pure15,9 dBSonataChristianHensonFamilyGrand12,3 dBSonataPresonusStudio Grand-11,8 dBWalzEWBechstein 280PlayerEW Hall LR1,7 dBWalzEWBechstein 280CloseEW Hall LR3,4 dBWalzEWBechstein 280MixEW Hall LR1,4 dBWalzEWBösendorfer 290PlayerEW Hall LR6,3 dBWalzEWBösendorfer 290CloseEW Hall LR9,1 dBWalzEWBösendorfer 290MixEW Hall LR7,9 dBWalzEWSteinway DPlayerEW Hall LR13,1 dBWalzEWSteinway DCloseEW Hall LR14,0 dBWalzEWSteinway DMixEW Hall LR12,1 dBWalzEWYamaha C7PlayerEW Hall LR-0,2 dBWalzEWYamaha C7CloseEW Hall LR2,0 dBWalzEWYamaha C7MixEW Hall LR1,6 dBWalzSampleTekkRain Piano MkIINone2,6 dBWalzSampleTekkTVBO Yamaha C7Neumann SM2Large Hall11,1 dBWalzSampleTekkTVBO Yamaha C7Neumann U89 x2Large Hall4,1 dBWalzSampleTekkTVBO Yamaha C7Neumann SM2+U89Large Hall10,7 dBWalzSonuscoreThe Orchestra Grand PianoLid ClosedConcert Hall 14,5 dBWalzSonuscoreThe Orchestra Grand PianoLid OpenConcert Hall 1-0,9 dBWalzSoundMagicPiano One-7,9 dBWalzNative InstrumentsThe GiantBasic Giant4,8 dBWalzNative InstrumentsThe MaverickBasic Maverick11,3 dBWalzNative InstrumentsThe GrandeurBasic Grandeur4,1 dBWalzNative InstrumentsThe GentlemanBasic Gentleman6,1 dBWalzNative InstrumentsNoire PureBasic Pure9,4 dBWalzChristianHensonFamilyGrand12,4 dBWalzPresonusStudio Grand-11,8 dB


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## doctoremmet (Oct 16, 2021)

Noire is a Yamaha you do seem to like? @quickbrownf0x


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## quickbrownf0x (Oct 16, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Noire is a Yamaha you do seem to like? @quickbrownf0x


Ha, I just got busted there didn't I?  Thanks for calling me out on my bullsh*t.
Some redemption; I only use the Felt patch.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 16, 2021)

quickbrownf0x said:


> Ha, I just got busted there didn't I?  Thanks for calling me out on my bullsh*t.
> Some redemption; I only use the Felt patch.


No intention to bust anything really haha. I get the “brightness” argument to be honest…


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

Well I am thoroughly enjoying the Imperfect Samples Walnut Grand recently acquired (due to this thread). It was the Steinway I was looking for. Feels so much like the real thing. There is a depth in the mid upper register especially that I cannot get past. Noire, Ravenscroft, Vienna Imperial, and now Walnut grand are really giving me many colors.


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## PaulieDC (Oct 16, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Well I am thoroughly enjoying the Imperfect Samples Walnut Grand recently acquired (due to this thread). It was the Steinway I was looking for. Feels so much like the real thing. There is a depth in the mid upper register especially that I cannot get past. Noire, Ravenscroft, Vienna Imperial, and now Walnut grand are really giving me many colors.


Why did you have to post this? I have finally settled within myself but I don’t have to buy any more piano libraries, and now you have me totally curious… 😂


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## tack (Oct 16, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Why did you have to post this? I have finally settled within myself but I don’t have to buy any more piano libraries, and now you have me totally curious… 😂


Then let me offer a counterpoint and maybe save you a bit of money. I just bought the Pro version of the Walnut Grand and -- as is typically the case with piano sample libraries -- within 60 seconds I decided it's not something I can play.

There's no catch pedalling so expect notes to vanish abruptly if you're playing anything even remotely complex
The product page advertises support for half pedaling but for the life of me I can't figure out how it works.
Sure, notes sustain when CC64 is above 64, but I don't hear any sonic difference at all to the decay.
There's no transition from full pedal to half pedal: once the sustain dips below 63 the note immediately dies
I'm guessing this only affects sympathetic resonance (given that's where the half pedal option is in the GUI) but that's putting the cart way before the horse if you ask me.

The layer transition from roughly p to mp is very jarring. Possibly this is better with the Complete or Extreme editions due to reportedly having more layers, but ...
... those versions may not actually have more _velocity_ layers. The website says the Pro version has 15 layers for P1 mic and 12 layers for P2, but looking in Kontakt I count 9 and 6 zones respectively, so the website's use of "layer" means something different than I thought it meant. (I imagine they are counting pedal up vs pedal down samples separately and summing those layers together, but this isn't how I interpreted it when I was making a buying decision.) Someone else would have to confirm that.
I generally like how it sounds (when I avoid the nasty aforementioned layer transition), but I already have a graveyard of pianos that sound nice but are frustrating to play.

Now I have one more. Back to Vintage D.


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

tack said:


> Then let me offer a counterpoint and maybe save you a bit of money. I just bought the Pro version of the Walnut Grand and -- as is typically the case with piano sample libraries -- within 60 seconds I decided it's not something I can play.


Will dig into this - and you gave me a good idea for testing these pianos. I have the extreme version - but have the updated pro patch files. Did you download the option update? I will compare soon. The samples need to be injected into a modern engine.


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

Another MIDI to add, and some piano renders. The first up is:

What a Wonderful World

NI - Alicias Keys - Default

View attachment Wonderfull World - Alicias.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft 275 - Default Player Mic

View attachment Wonderful World - Ravenscroft 275.mp3


SI - Emotional Piano - Default Preset

View attachment Wonderfull World - Emotional Default Preset.mp3


SI - Emotional Piano - Jazz Preset

View attachment Wonderfull World - Emotional Default Preset.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

What a Wonderful World

Omni - Keyscape C7 - Default

View attachment Wonderfull World - Keyscape C7 - Ballad.mp3


Omni - Keyscape C7 - Ballad

View attachment Wonderfull World - Keyscape C7 - Default.mp3


NI - Noire Pure

View attachment Wonderfull World - Noire Pure.mp3


IS - Pearl - Close Hall Mix (Default)

View attachment Wonderfull World - Pearl Close Hall Default.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

What a Wonderful World

Vienna Imperial - Close Default (This was the piano recorded on)

View attachment Wonderfull World - Vienna Close Default.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Close Default No Verb

View attachment Wonderfull World - Vienna Close No Verb.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Player Default

View attachment Wonderfull World - Vienna Player.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Distant Default

View attachment Wonderfull World - Vienna Distant.mp3


IN - Walnut Grand Close Room Mix

View attachment Wonderfull World - Walnut Grand Close Room.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

And another piece for low notes...

Tracce - Ludovico Einaudi

NI - Alicias Keys - Default

View attachment Tracce - Alicia's Krys - Default.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft 275 - Default Player Mic

View attachment Tracce - Ravenscroft 275.mp3


SI - Emotional Piano - Default Preset

View attachment Tracce - Emotional Piano Default.mp3


NI - Noire Pure - Basic

View attachment Tracce - Noire Pure Basic.mp3


IS - Pearl - Close Hall Mix (Default)

View attachment Tracce - Pearl Stage Close Default.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

Tracce - Ludovico Einaudi

Omni - Keyscape C7 - Default

View attachment Tracce - Keyscape C7 Default.mp3


Omni - Keyscape C7 - Ballad

View attachment Tracce - Keyscape C7 Ballad.mp3


IN - Walnut Grand Close Room Mix

View attachment Tracce - Walut Close Room.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

Tracce - Ludovico Einaudi

Vienna Imperial - Close Default (This was the piano recorded on)

View attachment Tracce - Imperial Default Close.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Close Default No Verb

View attachment Tracce - Imperial Default Close Dry.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Player Default

View attachment Tracce - Imperial Default Player.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Distant Default

View attachment Tracce - Imperial Default Distant.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

MIDI for What a Wonderful World and Tracce.


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

In response to the above poster I thought it might be nice to include a more clinical appraisal of velocity layers. If this is useful to you I am glad. What I have done is taken our favorite note ... Middle C and played it 127 times - Quantized my rhythm LOL and offer it at all velocities from 1 to 127. Thought this might be a good way of seeing how well these libraries disperse their velocities relative to how many layers they use etc... The MIDI is attached here and my 5 renders are posted.


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

NI - Noire Pure - Basic

View attachment Velocity - Noire Pure.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft 275 - Default Player Mic

View attachment Velocity - Ravenscroft 275.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Close Default

View attachment Velocity - Vienna Imperial.mp3


IN - Walnut Grand Close Room Mix EXTREME

View attachment Velocity - Walnut Grand Extreme.mp3


IN - Walnut Grand Close Room Mix PRO

View attachment Velocity - Walnut Grand Pro.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

tack said:


> Then let me offer a counterpoint and maybe save you a bit of money. I just bought the Pro version of the Walnut Grand and -- as is typically the case with piano sample libraries -- within 60 seconds I decided it's not something I can play.


Check out the above ... you can see the pro has a huge jump and the extreme has a couple more tiers ... certainly not quite as smooth as Vienna - but maybe that would make it better for you to play - as the tone is GORGEUOS.


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## Rudianos (Oct 16, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Why did you have to post this? I have finally settled within myself but I don’t have to buy any more piano libraries, and now you have me totally curious… 😂


Check out the test and samples and decide what works hehe.


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## PaulieDC (Oct 16, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Check out the test and samples and decide what works hehe.


Oh I will, don’t you worry.


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## Teletone Audio (Oct 18, 2021)

CGR said:


> Waltz for Debby with the Teletone Golden Age Grand (ideal for this style of tune & playing IMO):
> Great work @Teletone Audio  (and Rob for the playing!)
> View attachment Waltz for Debby - Teletone Golden Age Grand.mp3


Beautiful! Love it, and one of my favorites of Mr. Evans.


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## poly6 (Oct 20, 2021)

For completeness sake, here are all the various pieces rendered on the Xperimenta Due - Piano 1. It's been interesting for me to render and listen to them. It has a softer tone, which works well for some kinds of music but not others. I was surprised how well it sounded on most of these pieces, though. It's not perfect - I get occasional buzzing sounds from it for no obvious reasons. But overall, I enjoy playing it which I guess is what matters!

Albiniz - Prelude
View attachment Xperimenta Due - Albeniz - Prelude Exposition - Chants d'Espagne.mp3


Chopin - Raindrop
View attachment Xperimenta Due - Chopin - Raindrop Prelude.mp3


Schubert - Sonata

View attachment Xperimenta Due - Schubert - Sonata in AM, I.mp3


Ludovico Einaudi - Tracce
View attachment Xperimenta Due - Tracce 2.mp3


Evans - Waltz for Debby (by Rob)
View attachment Xperimenta Due - WaltzForDebby.mp3


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## poly6 (Oct 20, 2021)

Last 2 pieces for Xperimenta Due

Wonderful World
View attachment Xperimenta Due - Wonderful World 2.mp3


Velocity Test
View attachment Xperimenta Due - Velocity Test.mp3


I was surprised with the velocity test - I think I counted 13 layers and only 2-3 points where there was big difference of timbres between the layers.


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## Rudianos (Oct 20, 2021)

poly6 said:


> Last 2 pieces for Xperimenta Due
> 
> Wonderful World
> View attachment Xperimenta Due - Wonderful World 2.mp3
> ...


Lovely contributions! Thank you. That really is credit then to the programmer to be able to naturally blend 13 layers over 127!!!


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## PaulieDC (Oct 21, 2021)

Here's another for Shubert... not going to reveal which library yet, because I'd like some honest feedback about the timbre of the piano... I'm trying something and if you don't like it, that's A-OK, need to know that. After a couple responses, I'll post what it is.
View attachment Shubert on Mystery Piano.mp3


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## CGR (Oct 21, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Here's another for Shubert... not going to reveal which library yet, because I'd like some honest feedback about the timbre of the piano... I'm trying something and if you don't like it, that's A-OK, need to know that. After a couple responses, I'll post what it is.


That's a very bright piano. Is it a sampled and physical modelled piano layered? The upper treble is pretty harsh, and some of the bass notes almost have a synth bass character to them. Maybe Native Instruments Noire with the tone dialled way up and the sub layer engaged?


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## PaulieDC (Oct 21, 2021)

CGR said:


> That's a very bright piano. Is it a sampled and physical modelled piano layered? The upper treble is pretty harsh, and some of the bass notes almost have a synth bass character to them. Maybe Native Instruments Noire with the tone dialled way up and the sub layer engaged?


Good info. It's actually the VSL 280VC, and I'm trying to work with it to reduce that hard Synchron room sound that's even there in the smaller room where this was recorded. I took the Intimate preset and made several changes including cutting the Timbre control to reduce the top end. It's less bright than the stock preset believe it or not, but it does affect the bottom as well. In fact that's probably why it has a hybrid sound where you thought it included modelling.

OK, back to the drawing board, and that's all manual mic adjustment since I have the full library. NO room mics, individual adjustments on the keys and I'll see how EW Spaces II works for ambience. It's a great piano, there's got to be a way to form a preset/reverb patch that makes us light up. Until then, Garritan CFX Classic is still my #1. I expect it to always be that. Thanks for the assessment!


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## CGR (Oct 21, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Good info. It's actually the VSL 280VC, and I'm trying to work with it to reduce that hard Synchron room sound that's even there in the smaller room where this was recorded. I took the Intimate preset and made several changes including cutting the Timbre control to reduce the top end. It's less bright than the stock preset believe it or not, but it does affect the bottom as well. In fact that's probably why it has a hybrid sound where you thought it included modelling.
> 
> OK, back to the drawing board, and that's all manual mic adjustment since I have the full library. NO room mics, individual adjustments on the keys and I'll see how EW Spaces II works for ambience. It's a great piano, there's got to be a way to form a preset/reverb patch that makes us light up. Until then, Garritan CFX Classic is still my #1. I expect it to always be that. Thanks for the assessment!


Ah, the VSL 280VC - that explains the harsh treble. I also have the full version and the default treble nearly splits my ear drums – it requires a fair bit of taming. I think treble region EQ and volume reduction would work better than reducing the Timbre control, so the bass remains clean & tight.

The Garritan CFX is an excellent, well balanced piano sampled piano. It sparkles at the top end without sounding harsh, and has warmth & roundness. It's like it has the clarity and articulation of the VSL CFX and the body & warmth of the Noire CFX rolled into one piano.


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## PaulieDC (Oct 21, 2021)

CGR said:


> Ah, the VSL 280VC - that explains the harsh treble. I also have the full version and the default treble nearly splits my ear drums – it requires a fair bit of taming. I think treble region EQ and volume reduction would work better than reducing the Timbre control, so the bass remains clean & tight.
> 
> The Garritan CFX is an excellent, well balanced piano sample piano. It sparkles at the top end without sounding harsh, and has warmth & roundness. It's like it has the clarity and articulation of the VSL CFX and the body & warmth of the Noire CFX rolled into one piano.


It's what gets me with the CFX as well... those rooms just sound so hard and that gets picked up in the samples. I want to go to the hall and hang some curtains on one or two walls or something!


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## Virtuoso (Oct 21, 2021)

I think the VSL 280VC can sound better than that. Here's a mix with the Condenser, Tube, Mid1 and Main mics - no other reverb. What do you think?

View attachment Schubert.mp3


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## PaulieDC (Oct 21, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> I think the VSL 280VC can sound better than that. Here's a mix with the Condenser, Tube, Mid1 and Main mics - no other reverb. What do you think?
> 
> View attachment Schubert.mp3


OK, to me that sound good, much better than mine... I was hoping that if I play with the mics it would yield something nice! Also, I think CGR has full range of listening still intact, I tested mine with test tones in Cubase and I hear nothing over 12KHz, which at 59 is actually a bit better than the average. Under 12KHz the ear doc says I'm still intact thankfully. But that could explain why the stock presets are trebly to me but REALLY trebly to CGR... see? you just need a built-in 12KHz low pass filter!


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## CGR (Oct 21, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> OK, to me that sound good, much better than mine... I was hoping that if I play with the mics it would yield something nice! Also, I think CGR has full range of listening still intact, I tested mine with test tones in Cubase and I hear nothing over 12KHz, which at 59 is actually a bit better than the average. Under 12KHz the ear doc says I'm still intact thankfully. But that could explain why the stock presets are trebly to me but REALLY trebly to CGR... see? you just need a built-in 12KHz low pass filter!


Just has look at your mp3 file in Adobe Audition and there's content just over 16kHz, with the occasional spike up around 17kHz. A WAV file would have more detail at the top end. Last time I tested my hearing it topped out somewhere a little over 15kHz.


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## CGR (Oct 21, 2021)

Schubert-sonata in Am with the UVI Model D. This sampled piano punches way above it's weight. Convolution reverb is Inspirata (Scot's Church) from Inspired Acoustics. I find this reverb works really well with dry, close mic'd sampled pianos.

View attachment Schubert-sonata-in-Am-UVI Model D_01.mp3


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## CGR (Oct 21, 2021)

Same track with the UVI Austrian Grand (a Bosendorfer 280VC). Same Inspirata reverb settings.
View attachment Schubert-sonata-in-Am-UVI Austrian Grand 280VC.mp3


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## CGR (Oct 21, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> I think the VSL 280VC can sound better than that. Here's a mix with the Condenser, Tube, Mid1 and Main mics - no other reverb. What do you think?
> 
> View attachment Schubert.mp3


Is the handling of the half pedalling a little off on this? I can hear passages which are quite "blurry" (eg. around 02:30-03:50 or so). There's a lot of continuous sustain pedal data in the MIDI file (see attached). I think the half pedal range control in the Synchron Pianos Player needs adjusting.


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## CGR (Oct 21, 2021)

Taken from 02:30-02:50 of the Schubert piece. The UVI Austrian Grand handles it much better.

VSL 280VC Schubert excerpt with half pedal:
View attachment VSL 280VC-pedal excerpt.mp3


UVI Austrian Grand 280VC Schubert excerpt with half pedal:
View attachment UVI Austrian Grand 280VC-pedal excerpt.mp3


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## CGR (Oct 21, 2021)

CGR said:


> Last time I tested my hearing it topped out somewhere a little over 15kHz.


Just checked again with a Test Oscillator Sine Wave in Logic Pro and can JUST make out 15.5kHz


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## Virtuoso (Oct 21, 2021)

CGR said:


> Is the handling of the half pedalling a little off on this? I can hear passages which are quite "blurry" (eg. around 02:30-03:50 or so). There's a lot of continuous sustain pedal data in the MIDI file (see attached). I think the half pedal range control in the Synchron Pianos Player needs adjusting.


Yes - I struggled with that. In the staccato sections, the sustain pedal is still around 70-80/127, but if I dial it in so that section sounds correct, the start of the piece then sounds lumpy. I didn't spend long on it though as I was mainly trying to get a natural player perspective mix. It does sound a lot better on the UVI.


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## Rudianos (Oct 23, 2021)

Some mentioned the liking of Austrian Grand here - the UVI keyboard bundle is 40% off for the next day. Downloading as I speak. 94 key instruments, including mentioned.


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 23, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Some mentioned the liking of Austrian Grand here - the UVI keyboard bundle is 40% off for the next day. Downloading as I speak. 94 key instruments, including mentioned.


Still tempting. Could you share your overall opinion about it?


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## Rudianos (Oct 23, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Still tempting. Could you share your overall opinion about it?


I sure will - when if finishes downloading  in the meantime I watch ...


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## gsilbers (Oct 23, 2021)

No botdog piano? This cannot be happening


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## Rudianos (Oct 23, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Still tempting. Could you share your overall opinion about it?


Took about 5 hours to download but have them all here, actually "punches way above it's weight" is a very true statement. Here are some raindrops of 5 of them. I haven't gotten to the 91 other keyboards. At $2.10 each during this sale - WOW. And as far as playability. Quite refined. The Austrian Grand has the range all the way down to low C.


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## Rudianos (Oct 23, 2021)

Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"

UVI - F grand Fazioli - Basic Concert Hall Setting

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos F Grand.mp3


UVI - Yamaha C7 - Basic Concert Hall Setting

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Japanese Grand.mp3


UVI - Hybrid Grand (Yamaha, Steinway and Bösendorfer parts mixed) custom built - Basic Concert Hall Setting

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Hybrid Grand.mp3


UVI - Baby Grand Erard 1930s - Basic Concert Hall Setting

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos B Grand.mp3


UVI - Steinway Model D - Basic Concert Hall Setting

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Stein Grand.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 23, 2021)

Velocity Test

UVI - F grand Fazioli - Basic Dry Setting

View attachment Velocity Test F Grand.mp3


UVI - Yamaha C7 - Basic Concert Hall Setting

View attachment Velocity Test C7.mp3


UVI - Hybrid Grand (Yamaha, Steinway and Bösendorfer parts mixed) custom built - Basic Dry Setting

View attachment Velocity Test Hybrid.mp3


UVI - Baby Grand Erard 1930s - Basic Dry Setting

View attachment Velocity Test Baby Grand Errard.mp3


UVI - Steinway Model D - Basic Dry Setting

View attachment Velocity Test Steinway.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 23, 2021)

Velocity Test

UVI - Austrian Grand - Bosendorfer 280VC - Basic Dry Setting

View attachment Velocity Test Austrian Grand.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 23, 2021)

For our next topic I wanted to create something for just the Bosendorfers out there. Namely testing the notes C1 to C0. Is that what we call it LOL? Haven't found great demos comparing the tone of these lower notes in this kind of direct way. I hope this finds some interest and helps anyone who needs it. I can contribute the Vienna Imperial, UVI Austrian Grand, and the IK Alan Parsons Grand. MIDI attached.... If the other members could add the Synchrons, Galaxy, East West, Ivory that would be great. So to the low notes...


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## Rudianos (Oct 23, 2021)

Ultra Low Note Test

UVI - Austrian Grand - Bosendorfer 280VC - Basic Dry Setting

View attachment Ultra Low Test Austrian Grand Basic Dry.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Default Close Mic No Verb

View attachment Ultra Low Test Vienna Imperial Close.mp3


IK Multimedia Alan Parsons Imperial Grand Default

View attachment Ultra Low Test Alan Parsons Imperial Grand Default.mp3


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## CGR (Oct 23, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Ultra Low Note Test
> 
> UVI - Austrian Grand - Bosendorfer 280VC - Basic Dry Setting
> 
> ...


Interesting idea. I'll dig up some to contribute. BTW, The Vienna Imperial you uploaded is a blank track.


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## Rudianos (Oct 23, 2021)

CGR said:


> Interesting idea. I'll dig up some to contribute. BTW, The Vienna Imperial you uploaded is a blank track.


try it again IDK how that happened - I need to to check the end too thanks


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## Rudianos (Oct 23, 2021)

CGR said:


> Interesting idea. I'll dig up some to contribute. BTW, The Vienna Imperial you uploaded is a blank track.


should be all tight now! thanks so much for the contributions!


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## fan455 (Oct 25, 2021)

Piano premier sounds incredibly warm and decent. Wanna listen to more renditions of this library.


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## CGR (Oct 25, 2021)

fan455 said:


> Piano premier sounds incredibly warm and decent. Wanna listen to more renditions of this library.


I'll upload some with Piano Premier tomorrow (it's 9:24pm here at present) along with some Ultra Low Note Bosendorfer 290 tests.


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## CGR (Oct 25, 2021)

Schubert Sonata in Am with Piano Premier Steinway Hamburg Model O. This is a mix of the Crystal (Close) and Stage mics, with some of the built-in "Nohgakudo 1" hall reverb.
View attachment Piano Premier - Schubert-Sonata-in-Am.mp3


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## CGR (Oct 25, 2021)

Xperimenta Due Yamaha C3 - Schubert Sonata in Am. Close + Room mic mix and the built-in Large Room 3 convolution reverb.
View attachment Xperimenta Due C3 - Schubert-Sonata-in-Am.mp3


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## CGR (Oct 25, 2021)

Here's a rare Bosendorfer Imperial 290 from years ago. It's the original VSL Vienna Instruments Bosendorfer Imperial, which has separate Close and Distant perspectives. It was sampled on the old VSL Silent Stage, and whilst it only has 7 velocity layers (sampled chromatically) it has 5 RR for each note, so works very well for note repetitions.

This is the Ultra-low-test with the Close mics. For some reason the lowest C doesn't trigger a sound. On the keyboard graphic in the GUI it has purple shading on that key so maybe it's used as a key-switch?
View attachment VSL Vienna Instruments Imperial - ultra-low-test.mp3


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## CGR (Oct 25, 2021)

. . . and the VSL Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial (Standard Close mic, Dry):
View attachment VSL Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial - ultra-low-test.mp3


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## Alex C (Oct 25, 2021)

poly6 said:


> For completeness sake, here are all the various pieces rendered on the Xperimenta Due - Piano 1. It's been interesting for me to render and listen to them. It has a softer tone, which works well for some kinds of music but not others. I was surprised how well it sounded on most of these pieces, though. It's not perfect - I get occasional buzzing sounds from it for no obvious reasons. But overall, I enjoy playing it which I guess is what matters!
> 
> Albiniz - Prelude
> View attachment Xperimenta Due - Albeniz - Prelude Exposition - Chants d'Espagne.mp3
> ...


Thanks to these, I reinstalled Experimenta Piano One, and I discovered that I like it much more than I initially thought.


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## CGR (Oct 25, 2021)

Schubert Sonata in Am with Audio Brewers' Pianoforte (RAW mic set) and reverb courtesy of Inspired Acoustics Inspirata (Pianoforte's built-in reverbs are a little lacking in my opinion).

The sustain pedal data could do with some tweaking to suit but this gives you an idea.
View attachment Audio Brewers Pianoforte RAW - Schubert-Sonata-in-Am.mp3


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## poly6 (Oct 26, 2021)

Alex C said:


> Thanks to these, I reinstalled Experimenta Piano One, and I discovered that I like it much more than I initially thought.


You're welcome! There's something about the tone/timbre to it that I really like, probably because it suits my playing style.


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## fan455 (Oct 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> Schubert Sonata in Am with Piano Premier Steinway Hamburg Model O. This is a mix of the Crystal (Close) and Stage mics, with some of the built-in "Nohgakudo 1" hall reverb.
> View attachment Piano Premier - Schubert-Sonata-in-Am.mp3


What a nice piano...particularly the tone. Is it possible to make it sound bigger using stage mic only? How's the clarity of the stage mic?


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## chopin4525 (Oct 26, 2021)

Besides the few pieces that actually use the lower octave of the Bosendorfer it would be far more interesting to see the harmonic resonance that it adds to the notes in the VI (if at all) which is the major point of its existence and alas demise (just like the aliquot on Bluthner).


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## CGR (Oct 26, 2021)

fan455 said:


> What a nice piano...particularly the tone. Is it possible to make it sound bigger using stage mic only? How's the clarity of the stage mic?


Apart from adding some EQ and reverb, it has it's limitations in terms of sounding "big" given it's a smaller 6ft grand piano. Clarity across all 3 mics sets is excellent. The samples are 24bit/96kHz WAV, with no loops (ie. the full sustain of the recording). I run it in Logic Pro as a 24/48 session.


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## CGR (Oct 26, 2021)

Schubert Sonata in Am – Production Voices Concert Grand LE (16bit version) Modern New York Steinway D. This is a 3 mic perspective mix with the built-in Small Church Convolution Reverb:
View attachment Prod Voices Concert Grand LE - Schubert-Sonata-in-Am.mp3


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## bill5 (Oct 26, 2021)

I haven't browsed all 9 pages...is Sampletekk represented?


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## CGR (Oct 26, 2021)

Chopin's Raindrop Prelude with the old Garritan GPO5 Steinway D (built-in Scoring Stage reverb).
Sounds mighty fine for a modest <2GB sampled piano:
View attachment Garritan GPO5 Steinway D - Chopin Raindrop Prelude.mp3


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## CGR (Oct 26, 2021)

Chopin's Raindrop Prelude with Acoustic Samples Old Black Grand Pleyel.
View attachment Old Black Grand Pleyel - Chopin Raindrop Prelude.mp3


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## CGR (Oct 26, 2021)

This thread has prompted me to re-evaluate many of my sampled pianos and I've come to the conclusion that I'm more than happy with my collection, and I have enough . . . 

_"wait, what was that? . . . Production Voices is about to release a new Yamaha CFX captured in a modern Concert Hall?!! . . ."_


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> This thread has prompted me to re-evaluate many of my sampled pianos and I've come to the conclusion that I'm more than happy with my collection, and I have enough . . .



This is your 2 weeks notice. Shall I get your coat?


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## poly6 (Oct 27, 2021)

bill5 said:


> I haven't browsed all 9 pages...is Sampletekk represented?


Yes, if you go back to here:





Ultimate Piano Comparison Thread


Albeniz - Prelude (Exposition) - Chants d'Espagne MIDI




vi-control.net





cedricm put up samples for Sampletekk's TVBO.


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## chopin4525 (Oct 27, 2021)

CGR said:


> Chopin's Raindrop Prelude with Acoustic Samples Old Black Grand Pleyel.
> View attachment Old Black Grand Pleyel - Chopin Raindrop Prelude.mp3


Every single time I hear this library I am in awe, it comes so close to Cortot's sound... Wish it had a more detailed sampling!


----------



## ptram (Oct 27, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> It's actually the VSL 280VC, and I'm trying to work with it to reduce that hard Synchron room sound that's even there in the smaller room where this was recorded.


While the demos in the VSL web site sound less bright and harsh than your example, the 280VC is a very bright piano. It's as they like it today, unfortunately.


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## PaulieDC (Oct 27, 2021)

ptram said:


> While the demos in the VSL web site sound less bright and harsh than your example, the 280VC is a very bright piano. It's as they like it today, unfortunately.



True. But I know I'll have a situation where I'll need that tone at some point, probably for a pop tune that I'll get asked for again at some point. Between Emotional Piano which sounds like pea soup, Garritan which is my BFF and Screaming Yellow Zonkers in the 280VC, I'm thinking it's a good set, lol.


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## CGR (Oct 27, 2021)

Waltz for Debby on the ArtVista Malmsjo 1894 Swedish Grand. Really liking this piano for this track.
Once again, great playing @Rob 
View attachment Waltz for Debby - ArtVista Malmsjo Grand.mp3


*NOTE: See next page for another softer/warmer version without any built-in EQ engaged.*


----------



## CGR (Oct 27, 2021)

For comparison, Waltz for Debby with Acoustic Samples' Old Black Grand Pleyel:
View attachment Waltz for Debby - Old Black Grand Pleyel.mp3


----------



## poly6 (Oct 27, 2021)

Chopin's Raindrop on the 8dio New 1928 Scoring Piano

View attachment 8dio New 1928 Chopin Raindrop.mp3
j

I really want to love this instrument but certain uneven notes just ruin it for me. This is best illustrated starting at 1:48 in this piece. I think it's a C2, I didn't check, but that's one of the notes that I remember as being problematic. I believe this is one of the initial instruments included in soon-to-be-launched Soundpaint so I'm interested to see if Troels did anything about it. I believe 8dio considers this "character" but when one note sticks out like that it's too much character for me.


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## Rudianos (Oct 27, 2021)

poly6 said:


> Chopin's Raindrop on the 8dio New 1928 Scoring Piano
> 
> View attachment 8dio New 1928 Chopin Raindrop.mp3
> j
> ...


hopefully the soundpaint version will fix it - so much potential


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 27, 2021)

CGR said:


> For comparison, Waltz for Debby with Acoustic Samples' Old Black Grand Pleyel:
> View attachment Waltz for Debby - Old Black Grand Pleyel.mp3


Although this is an old library, it still has something unique doesn't it? Not sure if it shines on this piece, but I've heard some other jazzy things on YouTube which were nice.


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Oct 28, 2021)

Waltz for Debby with Sound Yeti Revelation Scoring Piano (piano sample only).

View attachment Waltz for Debby - Sound Yeti Revelation Scoring Piano.mp3


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Oct 28, 2021)

Waltz for Debby - AcousticSamples Kawai-EX Pro v3

View attachment Waltz for Debby - AcousticSamples Kawai-EX PRO v3.mp3


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Oct 28, 2021)

Last one for now. Favorite Pianoteq patch for Waltz for Debby.

Pianoteq Hamburg Steinway D Close Mic Classical (default settings)

View attachment Waltz for Debby - PTQ HB Steinway D Close Mic Classical.mp3


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## poly6 (Oct 28, 2021)

May not be relevant now that Soundpaint is out now, but here are the rest of the tracks with 8dio's New 1928 Scoring Piano.

Chopin - Raindrop Prelude
View attachment 8dio New 1928 Chopin - Raindrop Prelude.mp3

Schubert - Sonata in Am
View attachment 8dio New 1928 Schubert - Sonata in Am.mp3

Albiniz - Prelude Exposition - Chants d'Espagne
View attachment 8dio New 1928 Albeniz - Prelude Exposition - Chants d'Espagne.mp3

Evans - Waltz for Debby - (by Rob)
View attachment 8dio New 1928 Waltz for Debby.mp3

Einaudi - Tracce
View attachment 8dio New 1928 Einaudi - Tracce.mp3


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## poly6 (Oct 28, 2021)

poly6 said:


> May not be relevant now that Soundpaint is out now, but here are the rest of the tracks with 8dio's New 1928 Scoring Piano.


Last two:

Wonderful World
View attachment 8dio New 1928 Wonderful World.mp3

Velocity Test
View attachment 8dio New 1928 Velocity Test.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 28, 2021)

Here it is!

Soundpaint - 1928 Scoring Piano - Main 2 Mic

Chopin - Raindrop Prelude

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop.mp3


Velocity Test

View attachment Velocity - 1928.mp3


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## sostenuto (Oct 28, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Here it is!
> 
> Soundpaint - 1928 Scoring Piano - Main 2 Mic
> 
> ...


Ha !! Knew it wouldn't take you long. 🎹 Kudos !


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## poly6 (Oct 28, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Here it is!
> 
> Soundpaint - 1928 Scoring Piano - Main 2 Mic
> 
> ...


All those velocity layers seems to have evened out that distinct bass note compared to my 8dio New 1928 recordings.


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## Rudianos (Oct 28, 2021)

poly6 said:


> All those velocity layers seems to have evened out that distinct bass note compared to my 8dio New 1928 recordings.


agreed!!! nice improvement


----------



## CGR (Oct 28, 2021)

CGR said:


> Waltz for Debby on the ArtVista Malmsjo 1894 Swedish Grand. Really liking this piano for this track.
> Once again, great playing @Rob


Just realized I had the mid & high EQ dialed up on that render. Will upload again with no EQ and the velocity scaled back a little which will warm it up considerably.


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## poly6 (Oct 28, 2021)

CGR said:


> Just realized I had the mid & high EQ dialed up on that render. Will upload again with no EQ and the velocity scaled back a little which will warm it up considerably.


Your screenshot of your settings shows your EQ is off? I'm interested in what it will sound like a little warmer....


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## CGR (Oct 28, 2021)

poly6 said:


> Your screenshot of your settings shows your EQ is off? I'm interested in what it will sound like a little warmer....


No, all the red lights on those switches on the GUI indicate the ON position (confusing given that other lights are green)


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 28, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Here it is!
> 
> Soundpaint - 1928 Scoring Piano - Main 2 Mic
> 
> ...


That's quite a difference from the examples @poly6 posted. The sound had far more air to breath. Is this due to settings or did they redo the instrument for Soundpaint?


----------



## Rudianos (Oct 29, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> That's quite a difference from the examples @poly6 posted. The sound had far more air to breath. Is this due to settings or did they redo the instrument for Soundpaint?


they did recompile the samples from Troels piano. Just noticed too default volume was -14 - kicked it up a bit just now - nice. Noticed 100 cents of micro tuning on both sides. Some nice Tone and vibrato/tremolo effects in the system. For the price of FREE - maybe no better value. Very fun piano. And as for being a piano for normal playing - quite passable.


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## poly6 (Nov 4, 2021)

So....... Vstbuzz.com has the VI Labs True Keys Piano bundle for 74% off.... and I'm intrigued. I've listened to Simeon's review of them but as we all know he can make a toy piano sound amazing. Would anybody who has them be able to render some of the MIDI files for the three pianos in this bundle? Thanks in advance....


----------



## HM_Music (Nov 4, 2021)

poly6 said:


> So....... Vstbuzz.com has the VI Labs True Keys Piano bundle for 74% off.... and I'm intrigued. I've listened to Simeon's review of them but as we all know he can make a toy piano sound amazing. Would anybody who has them be able to render some of the MIDI files for the three pianos in this bundle? Thanks in advance....


Yes I can, I just bought.
However, my favorite is still the Walker D.

midi - Chopin - Raindrop Prelude

VI Labs American (Mix mic)
View attachment American.mp3


VI Labs German (Mix mic)
View attachment German.mp3


VI Labs Italian (Mix mic)
View attachment Italian.mp3


Embertone Walker D (Main Mic)
View attachment Walker.mp3


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## Rudianos (Nov 4, 2021)

poly6 said:


> So....... Vstbuzz.com has the VI Labs True Keys Piano bundle for 74% off.... and I'm intrigued. I've listened to Simeon's review of them but as we all know he can make a toy piano sound amazing. Would anybody who has them be able to render some of the MIDI files for the three pianos in this bundle? Thanks in advance....


thanks for the heads up - no hesitation purchase - those were on my list for black friday -stellar deal. Waiting for Modern U next.


----------



## CGR (Nov 4, 2021)

CGR said:


> No, all the red lights on those switches on the GUI indicate the ON position (confusing given that other lights are green)


Here's the Waltz for Debbie - @Rob - track again on the ArtVista Malmsjo with no EQ:
View attachment Waltz for Debby - ArtVista Malmsjo Grand - No EQ.mp3

Such a sweet sounding piano! @Hans Adamson


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## Rudianos (Nov 5, 2021)

Here are some UVI True Keys ... With the current sale of $96 - $32 a pop is a steal IMO. Very dry, clinical pianos - tight programming. Nice footprint. For @poly6 and anyone else.

Velocity Test

VI Labs - American (Steinway) - Default

View attachment Velocity Test - American.mp3


VI Labs - German (Bechstein) - Default

View attachment Velocity Test - German.mp3


VI Labs - Italian (Fazioli) - Default

View attachment Velocity Test - American.mp3


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 5, 2021)

Tracce - Ludovico Einaudi

VI Labs - American (Steinway) - Default

View attachment Tracce 2 - American.mp3


VI Labs - American (Steinway) - Default - Warm Hall Verb

View attachment Tracce 2 - American Warm Hall.mp3


VI Labs - German (Bechstein) - Default

View attachment Tracce 2 - German.mp3


VI Labs - Italian (Fazioli) - Default

View attachment Tracce 2 - Italian.mp3


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 5, 2021)

Schubert - Sonata in Am

VI Labs - American (Steinway) - Default

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Schubert American.mp3


VI Labs - German (Bechstein) - Default

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Schubert German.mp3


VI Labs - Italian (Fazioli) - Default

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Schubert Italian.mp3


UVI Austrian (Bosendorfer) - Default

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Schubert Austrian.mp3


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 5, 2021)

Albeniz - Prelude (Exposition) - _Chants_ d'Espagne

VI Labs - American (Steinway) - Default

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Albeniz American.mp3


VI Labs - German (Bechstein) - Default

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Albeniz German.mp3


VI Labs - Italian (Fazioli) - Default

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Albeniz Italian.mp3


UVI Austrian (Bosendorfer) - Default

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Albeniz Austrian.mp3


UVI Hybrid (Yamaha Steinway Bosendorfer) - Default

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Albeniz Hybrid.mp3


----------



## poly6 (Nov 5, 2021)

Well there goes my Black Friday budget (it wasn't a very big budget), thanks to @Rudianos and @HM_Music . I couldn't resist and am now downloading my VI Labs True Keys pianos. Look what you've done!


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 5, 2021)

poly6 said:


> Well there goes my Black Friday budget (it wasn't a very big budget), thanks to @Rudianos and @HM_Music . I couldn't resist and am now downloading my VI Labs True Keys pianos. Look what you've done!


probably the best deal for pianos I've ever seen here! congratulations you have three wonderful voices you can probably do just about anything


----------



## fan455 (Nov 6, 2021)

Light and Sound - Concert Grand

Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"
View attachment raindrop_lightandsound.mp3


Schubert - Sonata in Am
View attachment schubert_lightandsound.mp3


Waltz for Debby
View attachment waltz_lightandsound.mp3


A nice dreamy tone, but the bass notes seem a bit inconsistent with others.

Settings page:


----------



## cedricm (Nov 7, 2021)

cedricm said:


> Last updated: October 16th, 2021, 18:49, UTC+2
> 
> Here is a list of lossless files (FLAC).
> 
> ...


I've converted the FLAC files to Ogg Vorbis.

They are now smaller in size than the MP3 in this thread, while of better encoding quality.

I've uploaded them to my Google Drive, so that you can either download them (457 MB total, so about 4x smaller than the FLACs) or directly stream them.






Piano Comparison Ogg Vorbis - Google Drive


Comparison of piano virtual instruments with high-quality MIDI files. All files have a loudness of -23 LUFS to make them comparable. Raindrop: Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 Sonata: Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1 Walz: B. Evans' "waltz for Debby" See...




tinyurl.com





Happy listening!

PS I first tried to upload them to Soundcloud, and immediately got 77 copyright violation claims


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## Ciochi (Nov 7, 2021)

If you send me the midi I can put in on some pianos I got such as Sonivox 88 which is amazing to me, sampletekk BG, some other ik pianos etc


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## Rudianos (Nov 7, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> If you send me the midi I can put in on some pianos I got such as Sonivox 88 which is amazing to me, sampletekk BG, some other ik pianos etc


here is what we have been working with so far...


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## Rudianos (Nov 7, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> If you send me the midi I can put in on some pianos I got such as Sonivox 88 which is amazing to me, sampletekk BG, some other ik pianos etc



Feel free to add another MIDI too, anyone ... need some Rock - some Mozart era. Enjoy!


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## Ciochi (Nov 7, 2021)

Came up with some renders of sonivox 88 grand piano a and sampletekk black grand mkII ver 2


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## CGR (Nov 8, 2021)

Waltz for Debby - Fluffy Audio Scoring Piano (Hamburg Steinway B):
View attachment Waltz for Debby - Fluffy Scoring Piano.mp3


----------



## CGR (Nov 8, 2021)

. . . and an Upright piano to throw in the mix! Waltz for Debby - VI Labs Modern U:
View attachment Waltz for Debby - VI Labs Modern U.mp3


----------



## poly6 (Nov 8, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Here are some UVI True Keys ... With the current sale of $96 - $32 a pop is a steal IMO. Very dry, clinical pianos - tight programming. Nice footprint. For @poly6 and anyone else.
> 
> Velocity Test
> 
> ...


Just a minor point: the VI Labs German is a Bechstein. Just in case any body is actually looking for a Bluthner.....


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

poly6 said:


> Just a minor point: the VI Labs German is a Bechstein. Just in case any body is actually looking for a Bluthner.....


thank you! fixed


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## poly6 (Nov 8, 2021)

Doh. Sorry that should be *Bechstein* not Beckstein....


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

poly6 said:


> Doh. Sorry that should be *Bechstein* not Beckstein....


fixed again LOL


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## Rudianos (Nov 8, 2021)

CGR said:


> . . . and an Upright piano to throw in the mix! Waltz for Debby - VI Labs Modern U:


That is so on the list


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## CGR (Nov 8, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> That is so on the list


Just uploading a new render with the velocity pulled back a little.


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## CGR (Nov 8, 2021)

CGR said:


> . . . and an Upright piano to throw in the mix! Waltz for Debby - VI Labs Modern U:


Really liking this piano on this tune! Very clear and articulate with a singing upper register. @Rob - do you have this piano?


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## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

Waltz for Debby

Pianobook - Richard Vossgatter - Bluthner Style 6 - FREE!!!

Default Outside Mix

View attachment Waltz for Debby - Blutner Style 6.mp3


Inside Emphasis

View attachment Waltz for Debby - Blutner Style 6 - More Inside.mp3


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## SupremeFist (Nov 9, 2021)

poly6 said:


> Just a minor point: the VI Labs German is a Bechstein. Just in case any body is actually looking for a Bluthner.....


Is there any other Blüthner out there besides the (wonderful) VSL one?


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Is there any other Blüthner out there besides the (wonderful) VSL one?


yes its on sale ... https://neovst.com/product/neo-piano-chaptersa/

and 

Galaxy not on sale yet https://www.bestservice.com/galaxy_ii_german_baby_grand.html


----------



## SupremeFist (Nov 9, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> yes its on sale ... https://neovst.com/product/neo-piano-chaptersa/


...from a reputable developer? 




> Galaxy not on sale yet https://www.bestservice.com/galaxy_ii_german_baby_grand.html


Aha!


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> ...from a reputable developer?
> 
> 
> 
> Aha!


that Chinese company makes me raise my eye brows - considering too that it is its own player - of course I do own the full Ample Sound library. IDK - demos sounds pretty good. Black Friday for Galaxy can be 30% off


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 9, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> ...from a reputable developer?
> 
> 
> 
> Aha!


Old https://www.kvraudio.com/product/bl_thner_digital_model_one_by_pro_audio_vault


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Nov 9, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Is there any other Blüthner out there besides the (wonderful) VSL one?


Pianoteq has one: https://www.modartt.com/bluethner


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## CeDur (Nov 9, 2021)

Waltz for Deby

Production Voices - 300 Grand Compact

With a touch of Seventh Heaven (Large Wooden preset, -12.8 dB). No other FX.






View attachment deby waltz 300 grand.mp3


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## CGR (Nov 9, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> ...from a reputable developer?


The company avoid answering questions and don't provide any information or photos of the sampling/recording sessions for their vast range of pianos. Also, they seem to have a problem distinguishing the difference between a photo of a grand piano and an upright. From their website:


----------



## CeDur (Nov 9, 2021)

I'm surprised they have such a wide choise of instruments available. One might think they are using ancient product creation technique, called 'copy from others, rename and sell as your own'. Well..


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## SupremeFist (Nov 9, 2021)

CeDur said:


> I'm surprised they have such a wide choise of instruments available. One might think they are using ancient product creation technique, called 'copy from others, rename and sell as your own'. Well..


I've seen some suggestions elsewhere that at least some of their piano instruments are sampled from Pianoteq. :(


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## CeDur (Nov 9, 2021)

Sampling Pianoteq seems like:





So many good pianos in that topic. Good thing is I have most of them :D but hunger is still not satisfied. I've never actually bought anything during BF, but this year if VSL pianos go on sale, I'm going for CFX. I promised myself to wait until they move to iLok, but so tired of waiting.


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## fan455 (Nov 14, 2021)

Splash Sound - Gentle Keys

Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"

View attachment raindrop gentle keys.mp3


Schubert - Sonata in Am

View attachment schubert gentle keys.mp3


Waltz for Debby

View attachment waltz gentle keys.mp3


Settings page:






And, accessible edit page:


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## poly6 (Dec 2, 2021)

fan455 said:


> Splash Sound - Gentle Keys
> 
> Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"
> 
> ...


FYI, Splash Sound Gentle Keys is currently $5!


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## Rudianos (Dec 2, 2021)

poly6 said:


> FYI, Splash Sound Gentle Keys is currently $5!


nice - great deal - like alot of their other postings too


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## keepitsimple (Dec 3, 2021)

CeDur said:


> Waltz for Deby
> 
> Production Voices - 300 Grand Compact
> 
> ...


Hmmm, that's a nice sounding piano. He did good with that one. Nice playing.


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## Rudianos (Dec 25, 2021)

poly6 said:


> FYI, Splash Sound Gentle Keys is currently $5!


its FREE https://www.splashsound.org/piano.html


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## Alex C (Dec 26, 2021)

CeDur said:


> Waltz for Deby
> 
> Production Voices - 300 Grand Compact
> 
> ...


Not a fan of the strong mids of this piano. Reminds me of the Yamaha CP-70.


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

Ok. Fair health warning. Encyclopaedic rendering of ALL UVI Keysuite Acoustic and Austrian Grand inbound. Where there are multiple mics, I've created a version for each mic, or sometimes combos that I like. All mics are covered though. I've even rendered plucked and metallophones. All with 10% R4 Famous Vintage Hall applied (no reverb from Falcon). L1 limiter that isn't doing any limiting, just dithering, and then everything is normalised to -1.0db at render in Reaper. Everything just going to get dumped in alphabetical order. Here goes!

UVI Austrian Grand - Cinematic + Mono Mics
View attachment UVI Austrian Grand - Cinematic + Mono Mics.mp3


UVI Austrian Grand - Cinematic Mic
View attachment UVI Austrian Grand - Cinematic Mic.mp3


UVI Austrian Grand - Close Mic
View attachment UVI Austrian Grand - Close Mic.mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Baby Grand
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Baby Grand.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Blanchet Cembalo - Jeu 1
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Blanchet Cembalo - Jeu 1.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Blanchet Cembalo - Jeu 2
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Blanchet Cembalo - Jeu 2.mp3


----------



## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Celesta - BK Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Celesta - BK Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Celesta - PZM Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Celesta - PZM Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Celesta - Ribbon Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Celesta - Ribbon Mic.mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Clavichord
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Clavichord.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Dulcitone - Condenser Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Dulcitone - Condenser Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Dulcitone - Dynamic Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Dulcitone - Dynamic Mic.mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - F Grand
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - F Grand.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - German Upright No Pedal Noise
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - German Upright No Pedal Noise.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - German Upright
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - German Upright.mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Grand Upright - BK + Ribbon + Mono Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Grand Upright - BK + Ribbon + Mono Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Grand Upright - BK Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Grand Upright - BK Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Grand Upright - Ribbon + Mono Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Grand Upright - Ribbon + Mono Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Grand Upright - Ribbon Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Grand Upright - Ribbon Mic.mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Harpsichord Close Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Harpsichord Close Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Harpsichord Side Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Harpsichord Side Mic.mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Honky-Tonk Upright
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Honky-Tonk Upright.mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Hybrid Custom - BK + Ribbon + Mono Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Hybrid Custom - BK + Ribbon + Mono Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Hybrid Custom - BK Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Hybrid Custom - BK Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Hybrid Custom - Ribbon + Mono Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Hybrid Custom - Ribbon + Mono Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Hybrid Custom - Ribbon Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Hybrid Custom - Ribbon Mic.mp3


----------



## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Japanese C7
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Japanese C7.mp3


----------



## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - J-Celeste
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - J-Celeste.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Keyboard Glockenspiel
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Keyboard Glockenspiel.mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Model D
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Model D.mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Papageno Bells - BK Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Papageno Bells - BK Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Papageno Bells - PZM Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Papageno Bells - PZM Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Papageno Bells - Ribbon Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Papageno Bells - Ribbon Mic.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Spinet
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Spinet.mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Tack Upright
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Tack Upright.mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Tender Upright - Mini Mic 1
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Tender Upright - Mini Mic 1.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Tender Upright - Mini Mic 2
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Tender Upright - Mini Mic 2.mp3


UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Tender Upright - Stereo Mic
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Tender Upright - Stereo Mic.mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

UVI Key Suite Acoustic - The Compact (Upright)
View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - The Compact (Upright).mp3


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

So some post-script notes. I didn't transpose anything to match range of instruments. So particularly the non-piano instruments, they have limited ranges. Personally, my favourite for general use is the Austrian Grand with Cinematic + Mono mic on. Closely followed by the Grand Upright with Ribbon + Mono mic on. But it's a wonderful spread of instruments, and I'm still discovering them really, several months after buying it all. And there's the electric library too, with all the electric pianos, tines, reeds etc. The digital library is... just a curiosity really. Not quite sure why they bothered, other than to be some sort of historical record of crap PCM piano modules from the 90s.

EDIT: Another highlight is the Tender Upright Stereo Mic. Just lovely to play.

Second EDIT: Most of the pianos have a secondary level mixing page, where you can mix the main Sustain, Resonanting Board, mechanical and pedal noises, where available. This is great for mixing the body of the sound to taste or to fit a track better:


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## Rudianos (Dec 26, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> So some post-script notes. I didn't transpose anything to match range of instruments. So particularly the


Whoa thanks for posting all of those - I have lots of listening to do. And I didn't quite notice all those mic options - so wow


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> Whoa thanks for posting all of those - I have lots of listening to do. And I didn't quite notice all those mic options - so wow


Pleasure to do it. And I learned a lot about the pianos, I listened to every single one at least up until the first loud section.


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

I can't believe thre's no Hammers and Waves examples here - no-one willing to put some up? I'm always getting GAS about that, especially the "robot" they used - geeks me out completely.


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## Rudianos (Dec 26, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> I can't believe thre's no Hammers and Waves examples here - no-one willing to put some up? I'm always getting GAS about that, especially the "robot" they used - geeks me out completely.


right, we need to find an owner


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## liquidlino (Dec 26, 2021)

I just wanted to post one of the UVI Key Suite Electric instruments too - my favourite from the whole pack. I just find this so inspriing and relaxing to play - many hours spent noodling with this.

UVI Key Suite Electric - W 200 Studio Space Bells
View attachment UVI Key Suite Electric - W 200 Studio Space Bells.mp3


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## Rudianos (Dec 27, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> I just wanted to post one of the UVI Key Suite Electric instruments too - my favourite from the whole pack. I just find this so inspriing and relaxing to play - many hours spent noodling with this.
> 
> UVI Key Suite Electric - W 200 Studio Space Bells
> View attachment UVI Key Suite Electric - W 200 Studio Space Bells.mp3


spectacular tone and it takes you away - like a piano and harp in a kind room


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## poly6 (Dec 28, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Tender Upright - Mini Mic 1
> View attachment UVI Key Suite Acoustic - Tender Upright - Mini Mic 1.mp3
> 
> 
> ...


Somebody please oil that d*mn pedal! .

I like the Austrian Grand as well. Thanks for posting all these. I've looked at the Key Suite Acoustic collection before but I would only be interested in the pianos really, and this lets me know that though they are quite good, I'm happy with I've got. But I might keep my eye on the Austrian Grand.


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## liquidlino (Dec 28, 2021)

poly6 said:


> Somebody please oil that d*mn pedal! .
> 
> I like the Austrian Grand as well. Thanks for posting all these. I've looked at the Key Suite Acoustic collection before but I would only be interested in the pianos really, and this lets me know that though they are quite good, I'm happy with I've got. But I might keep my eye on the Austrian Grand.


I would say that none, including the Austrian, are what pro pianists would be happy with. Max six dynamic layers, and most only have three or four. But for the money it's a great breadth of tone, and configurability.


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## Rowy van Hest (Dec 28, 2021)

I'm not even looking for a natural sounding piano. Ever heard a real piano? It sounds nice once it has been tuned, for a week or two. Since I lost my Pleyel (long story), I've been using digital pianos and virtual instruments. What a relief. No more tuning. Besides, it's the notes I'm interested in, not the instrument.

Now I can make a composition sound clear and distinct, so everyone can hear the exact notes, instead of a cranky mechanism or a sea of reverb. I think it's a bit odd to have a digital product sound the same as the real mechanical one. I'm sure the AI robots of the future will prefer the digital ones.

Mind you, this attitude came to bite me in the ass. Since a couple of years I lost the ability to play the piano and now I have to work with edited midi files. Well, some work, some don't. That's life.


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## re-peat (Dec 28, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> I just wanted to post one of the UVI Key Suite Electric instruments too - my favourite from the whole pack. I just find this so inspriing and relaxing to play - many hours spent noodling with this.
> 
> UVI Key Suite Electric - W 200 Studio Space Bells
> View attachment UVI Key Suite Electric - W 200 Studio Space Bells.mp3



Lino,

I am honestly curious: does that actually sound _good_ at your place?

Here in my studio, the build-up around 400hz in this Wurlitzery piano sound is excessively excessive — really quite bad — and things become close to unlistenable the moment you start visiting the lower octaves of the instrument and a huge mountain range of bass frequencies force me to yank the volume down. I don’t think I could work with a piano that sounded like that.

Which got me wondering how it sounded in your studio. If you feel it sounds perfectly fine, than one of us, it seems to me, has got a serious monitoring or room treatment problem.

_


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## CGR (Dec 28, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> I would say that none, including the Austrian, are what pro pianists would be happy with. Max six dynamic layers, and most only have three or four. But for the money it's a great breadth of tone, and configurability.


I disagree. There are numerous demos by "pro" pianists who make wonderful, expressive music with these sampled pianos. This one, in my opinion, being an example:




Now, if by "Pro Pianist" you are meaning a top tier concert-level Classical pianist, then I'd suggest no sampled or virtual piano is up to the task of performing adequately. Also, although some of the older UVI pianos have 4-5 sampled layers, the Austrian Grand in fact has 9 sampled velocity layers per key, as confirmed by UVI Support.


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## liquidlino (Dec 28, 2021)

CGR said:


> I disagree. There are numerous demos by "pro" pianists who make wonderful, expressive music with these sampled pianos. This one, in my opinion, being an example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah, you're right! I just went into falcon and re-checked. There's six main layers, and then three more right at the top, hardly visible in the editor - and judging by the tree, there's maybe 10, as the number goes from v1 through to v10. v10 seems to just be 127, v9 123-126 and so on.

Thanks for correcting me.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 28, 2021)

Anybody with Hammersmith Pro? It’s on sale right now.


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## Rudianos (Dec 28, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Anybody with Hammersmith Pro? It’s on sale right now.


looks great, especially with that extra $20 best service discount


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## Rudianos (Dec 30, 2021)

Here is Audio Ollie's Memoir Piano - Mason & Hamlin Grand from 1923 - it is FREE

Waltz for Debby - Grand Piano

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Debby - Memoir Piano.mp3


Waltz for Debby - Dark Grand

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Debby Memoire Dark.mp3


Waltz for Debby - Warm Felt

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Debby - Memoir Piano Warm Felt.mp3


Chopin Raindrop - Grand Piano

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Raindrop Memoir Piano.mp3


Schubert Sonata - Grand Piano

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Schubert Memoir Piano.mp3


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## CGR (Dec 30, 2021)

This Mason & Hamlin Grand sounds so sweet & resonant. Those initial milliseconds of hammer attack are so important to a good tone, and this piano has it. Pretty amazing for a free sampled piano! Thanks again @Audio Ollie


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## Audio Ollie (Jan 3, 2022)

CGR said:


> This Mason & Hamlin Grand sounds so sweet & resonant. Those initial milliseconds of hammer attack are so important to a good tone, and this piano has it. Pretty amazing for a free sampled piano! Thanks again @Audio Ollie


You're very welcome! @Rudianos thanks for including it here


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## Rudianos (Jan 11, 2022)

Cannot Believe Soniccouture Hammersmith Pro is not on here. This is all Default Mid Mic Concert Hall Verb out of the box.

Waltz for Debby

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Hammersmith Debby Defaul.mp3


Chopin Raindrop

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Hammersmith Chopin Default.mp3


Schubert Sonata

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Hammersmith Schubert Default.mp3


Einaudi Tracce

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Hammersmith Tracce Default.mp3


Albeniz Chants d'Espagne

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Hammersmith Albeniz Default.mp3


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## moon (Jan 17, 2022)

So now that Hammers + Waves products are on sale at NI, anyone got them?


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## creativeforge (Jan 17, 2022)

CGR said:


> I disagree. There are numerous demos by "pro" pianists who make wonderful, expressive music with these sampled pianos. This one, in my opinion, being an example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Beautiful tone, great playing covering the whole instrument.  But you hear the dampers buzzing slightly on the bass notes. Very realistic, but a bit distracting. I'd like to hear him play other libraries to see if this is widespread. I don't play fast enough like this to test mine the same way. But definitely I like it, it sings well from what I hear in this video.


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## Vik (Jan 19, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Creating a new diversion for myself here and hoping it provides some value to the community.
> 
> The aim is to create a comprehensive piano comparison using high quality MIDI. Too often demos, don't offer such consistency. It can be hard to tell what to buy. Hopefully people will join up and get all the big names represented - and the small character pianos too.
> 
> I am including the MIDI that I use - as well as a full instrument and mic rundown on whichever piano I post.


Thanks a lot of starting this thread, Rudianos. I'm generally happy with the library I use, but have come across several pianos in this thread which offer something different from Ivory II American Concert D, which I use, like eg. Vienna Imperial, Embertone Walker D, 1928 Scoring Piano, the UBI piano, the Light & Sound Concert Grand and more. Since you seem to have access to many of these libraries – and if you have any libraries you use more than other: do you want to share what some of your favorites are? I may go through all the 250+ posts again, but I'm still interested in which instruments that you and others who own many of them prefer!


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## doctoremmet (Jan 19, 2022)

Vik said:


> I'm still interested in which instruments that you and others who own many of them prefer!


You’ll love this thread:






Piano Libraries, we have loves, favourites, unloved, but which one is your go to piano library?


EDIT: I've added below this original post, a list of all the pianos mentioned in this thread, many thanks for all the comments and feedback, it's fascinating and very much appreciated! ORIGINAL: It's fascinating listening to and reading about different piano libraries here, I love how some folk...




vi-control.net


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## Vik (Jan 19, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> You’ll love this thread:


Thanks for the tip, doctoremmet, I probably will if it contains lots of audio examples. Will check it out!


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## Rudianos (Jan 19, 2022)

Vik said:


> Thanks a lot of starting this thread, Rudianos. I'm generally happy with the library I use, but have come


You are welcome - very happy with how it is turning out - so many pianos here are represented. Glad you are enjoying.

This thread has opened up a purchase of Imperfect Samples Walnut Grand. I have not found a mix place for this - but it is so good to play. Like playing a real piano - a little out of tune - a little inconsistent - but so much character. Probably the most palpable Steinway tone of all the VI's.

For most of last year I reached for Ravenscroft. But I felt it lacked the true expression of playing on a grand - too much even to be fooled.

What I reach for now ... Vienna Imperial - that is 100 velocity layers in 40 GB. I love the tone - it can cut through and the engine can EQ each note separately and with touch sensitivity motivations you can bring up the low velocity timbre. So wide tonal. I prefer dry libraries so I can choose my verbs and such. It is also a piano that is studio grade but not 100% perfect tuning and such. Sale for $200ish. This piano does what I want when I want it - I am the limit here LOL. It has all the pedals etc.

Modern U3 is a great upright!

I was talked out of Synchron Pianos in all shapes and sizes. But 1 poster here did really get the best tone out.

Hammersmith was a great purchase and shows much promise. Picked that up for $80ish.

I have all the UVI and VI labs since Black Friday and they all are great - add a different sound or different feel. I can say this is mostly me wanting some sound for nostalgia or emotion. Will they make it into 1 mix from time to time? IDK? Price was right.

Alicia Keys is a solid piano to reach for... Soundiron Emotional Piano is so sweet a lovely to play. Jazz preset for me. I do horror with Soundiron Delphi. I should appreciate my Teletone more, in time.

Impact - Hammer Klavier is also very fun to play! and an untalked of Fracture Sounds Dulciano

Have to be more choosy now with Hard Drive Space limitations.


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## chopin4525 (Jan 19, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> ...
> 
> Have to be more choosy now with Hard Drive Space limitations.


Don't worry, you'll just buy another one like we all do...


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## Rudianos (Jan 19, 2022)

chopin4525 said:


> Don't worry, you'll just buy another one like we all do...


I have to wait until 4-8TB NVME comes down $$$. I have 2 in the board and 2 on PCI Express for 8TB. Maxed for now


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## newman (Feb 11, 2022)

https://vi-control.net/community/javascript%3Avoid(0); (Frédéric L) at PianoWorld just prepared a nice piano VI comparison via MIDI (Fantaisie Impromptu). It is fast and easy to compare 60 pianos on one page:






Virtual pianos comparison


Hi, I have made a comparison of multiple virtual pianos (and add an hardware digital piano) : http://www.sinerj.org/~loyer/piano/Fantaisie/ (I have taken the slow part of the Chopin’s Fantasy Impromptu) I wish you a good listening.




forum.pianoworld.com


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## Tim_Wells (Feb 11, 2022)

newman said:


> https://vi-control.net/community/javascript%3Avoid(0); (Frédéric L) at PianoWorld just prepared a nice piano VI comparison via MIDI (Fantaisie Impromptu). It is fast and easy to compare 60 pianos on one page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great comparison! It's nice to hear some lower-mid range notes ring out, since that's often the area that bugs me.

It's surprising how many of the pianos sound good, but that may be the nature of the piece selected. Still though, it's not hard to hear the characteristics you like and don't like.


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## Rudianos (Feb 11, 2022)

Thanks for the new MIDI - here are 5 pianos - can certainly make more on request.

Chopin Ballade No.4 op.52 from @fan455

Noire Pure - Default

View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 - Noire Pure.mp3


Hammersmith Pro - Default

View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 - Hammersmith Pro.mp3


Piano in Blue - Default reduced pedal noise

View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 - Piano in Blue.mp3


Walnut Grand Extreme - Close + Room

View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 - Walnut Grand.mp3


Vienna Imperial - Close

View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 - Vienna Imperial Close.mp3


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## CGR (Feb 11, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Thanks for the new MIDI - here are 5 pianos - can certainly make more on request.
> 
> Chopin Ballade No.4 op.52 from @fan455
> 
> ...


Piano in Blue is doing a fine job here! Walnut Grand has that sweet singing tone, but seems to get a little out of control around the 03:50 and onwards mark. Maybe the room mics are a little high in the mix? Thanks for posting these


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## quietmind (Feb 11, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Thanks for the new MIDI - here are 5 pianos - can certainly make more on request.
> 
> Chopin Ballade No.4 op.52 from @fan455
> 
> ...


Thanks for doing this, it's a great example. I may have missed something earlier in this thread, but could you please mention which Vienna Imperial is that, the old one or the Synchron, and if the latter, what is the "Close" setting listed as in their presets? Thanks!

Oh, and how about adding Ravenscroft or Garritan CFX?


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## Rudianos (Feb 11, 2022)

quietmind said:


> Thanks for doing this, it's a great example. I may have missed something earlier in this thread, but could you please mention which Vienna Imperial is that, the old one or the Synchron, and if the latter, what is the "Close" setting listed as in their presets? Thanks!
> 
> Oh, and how about adding Ravenscroft or Garritan CFX?


The old Vienna Imperial. Yes I'll do another round with Ravens. Don't have CFX...


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## poly6 (Feb 11, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Thanks for the new MIDI - here are 5 pianos - can certainly make more on request.
> 
> Chopin Ballade No.4 op.52 from @fan455


The Walnut Grand almost sounds like 2 pianos, a muffled/darker one when soft and a brighter one when loud.


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## CGR (Feb 11, 2022)

poly6 said:


> The Walnut Grand almost sounds like 2 pianos, a muffled/darker one when soft and a brighter one when loud.


Yes, not sure what's happening there. The different mic positions in the Imperfect Samples pianos have a distinctly different tone (and of course, stereo image). It may have translated the MIDI file better with a single stereo mic perspective.


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## Rudianos (Feb 12, 2022)

Okay the people have spoken and Walnut Grand deserves better representation so 3 mics separated ... player, close, room. Def the VI Labs here are not as loud - but giving out of the box. They can be boosted. Walnut can be reduced.

Chopin Ballade No.4 op.52

Imperfect Samples - Walnut Grand Extreme - Player 60%

View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 - Walnut Player 60.mp3


Imperfect Samples - Walnut Grand Extreme - Close 60%

View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 - Walnut Close 60.mp3


Imperfect Samples - Walnut Grand Extreme - Room 60%

View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 - Walnut Room 60.mp3


VI Labs - Ravenscroft 275 - Close Default

View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 - Ravens Close Default.mp3


VI Labs - Modern U - Close Default

View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 - Modern U Close Default.mp3


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## Rudianos (Feb 12, 2022)

So far we have a request for Garritan Yamaha CFX - and Id love to see the Synchrons. If someone wouldn't mind...


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## Baronvonheadless (Feb 12, 2022)

I looked through most of this thread and unless my eyes got tired I didn't see the Golden Age Grand by Teletone so I went and did a few with it. Got it recently and really really love it.

Here's a few with the basic 1.1 update NKI without all the added effects, with just a bit of scoring stage reverb.


Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 NKI 1.1
View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 Golden Age Grand 1.1 .mp3



Chopin Ballade no. 4 op.52 NKI 1.1 (with tape, flutter/wow, & age engaged)
View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 Golden Age Grand 1.1 tape:flutter:age.mp3



Chopin Ballade no. 4 op.52 NKI 1.1 (with Digital time stretch engaged, no age or flutter/wow)
View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 Golden Age Grand 1.1 Digital:time stretch:no age or flutter .mp3


PRESETS:

Chopin Ballade no. 4 op.52 (A Historic Return)
View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 Golden Age Grand Historic Return .mp3



Chopin Ballade no. 4 op.52 (1968 TV Concert on VHS)

View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 Golden Age Grand 1968 tv concert on VHS.mp3



Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 (Chopin Piano Competition 1965)

View attachment Chopin Ballade no.4 op.52 Golden Age Grand Chopin Piano Competition 1965.mp3


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## Baronvonheadless (Feb 12, 2022)

Golden Age Grand round 2:


Chopin Raindrop Prelude NKI 1.1
View attachment Chopin Raindrop Prelude nki 1.1 .mp3


Chopin Raindrop Prelude NKI 1.1 Tape/flutter and wow/age
View attachment Chopin Raindrop Prelude nki 1.1 tape .mp3


PRESETS:


Chopin Raindrop Prelude (Chopin Piano Competition 1965)

View attachment Chopin Raindrop Prelude chopin piano comp 1965.mp3




Chopin Raindrop Prelude (1968 TV Concert on VHS)

View attachment Chopin Raindrop Prelude VHS.mp3


Chopin Raindrop Prelude (The Golden Variation 1955)

View attachment Chopin Raindrop Prelude Golden Variation 1955.mp3


Chopin Raindrop Prelude (Lonely Outerspace) based off the piano in Rocket Man. Just a fun one thought I'd throw in. Nice sound.

View attachment Chopin Raindrop Prelude Outerspace .mp3


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## Rudianos (Feb 13, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Golden Age Grand round 2:


Thanks for the taking time to get this one better represented. Such nostalgia! Nice sounds.


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## KEM (Feb 13, 2022)

Malmsjö >>> everything


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## doctoremmet (Feb 13, 2022)

Why? Because a hero of yours is on record he used it once, now there are no better piano samples and it warrants three >>> signs? It is three times better than ANY piano sample? Erm… Fanboy much? Lol


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## KEM (Feb 13, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Why? Because a hero of yours is on record he used it once, now there are no better piano samples and it warrants three >>> signs? It is three times better than ANY piano sample? Erm… Fanboy much? Lol



You’re absolutely right it is!! I own other pianos and have heard/tried even more and none of them sounded as good, and they didn’t feel as inspiring to play either, there’s a reason Hans has been using it on everything for the past 20 years… it is THAT good!! For as long as I’ve been alive the Malmsjö has been the sound of Hollywood, it’s the golden standard everything else gets compared to and nothing has yet to rival it


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## doctoremmet (Feb 13, 2022)

KEM said:


> For as long as I’ve been alive the Malmsjö has been the sound of Hollywood, it’s the golden standard everything else gets compared to and nothing has yet to rival it


Aha. LOL. Hans Zimmer, the God of music and the center of the universe


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## KEM (Feb 13, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Aha. LOL. Hans Zimmer, the God of music and the center of the universe



Well he did score The Dark Knight…


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## KEM (Feb 13, 2022)

Look no further than this to hear why the Malmsjö is #1!!!


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## doctoremmet (Feb 13, 2022)

I love that your youthful naivety still makes you believe that there is such a thing as absolute truths. Especially in music and virtual instruments that seems enviable!


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## KEM (Feb 13, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I love that your youthful naivety still makes you believe that there is such a thing as absolute truths. Especially in music and virtual instruments that seems enviable!



I’ve always been noted as being the most stubborn person ever, once my mind is made up on something I rarely ever change it, which can be a blessing and a curse. On one hand it allows me to be completely confident in a lot of my decisions, even if everyone else thinks I’m crazy (which is often), but on the other hand I might have an idea that makes no sense to everyone else but me so I end up being the only person to believe in my own insanity lol


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## Baronvonheadless (Feb 13, 2022)

KEM said:


> Well he did score The Dark Knight…


You mean that super aged sounding soundtrack/movie?


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## doctoremmet (Feb 13, 2022)

There’s another risk: you may miss out on OTHER cool things, good instruments, interesting alternatives, etc. You know - NEXT to the great things you already ‘stubbornly’ love. Most of the time the fact that something is good or cool or whatever does not rule out another thing to also be cool  - the mutual exclusivity … it is not really there you know… but hey - I’m old.


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## Baronvonheadless (Feb 13, 2022)

KEM said:


> Look no further than this to hear why the Malmsjö is #1!!!



This piano honestly sounds like any piano with some reverb to me. However, this does remind me that the Batman Begins score is better than the Dark Knight score IMO.


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## KEM (Feb 13, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> There’s another risk: you may miss out on OTHER cool things, good instruments, interesting alternatives, etc. You know - NEXT to the great things you already ‘stubbornly’ love. Most of the time the fact that something is good or cool or whatever does not rule out another thing to also be cool  - the mutual exclusivity … it is not really there you know… but hey - I’m old.



Oh I try out plenty of other stuff, but I usually end up saying “ehhh, it’s cool but not as good as what I’m already using”, very rarely do I end up replacing something I know very well, which like you said has its tradeoffs

But if I ever end up replacing my beloved Malmsjö then I give you permission to say “I told you so”


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## doctoremmet (Feb 13, 2022)

KEM said:


> Oh I try out plenty of other stuff, but I usually end up saying “ehhh, it’s cool but not as good as what I’m already using”, very rarely do I end up replacing something I know very well, which like you said has its tradeoffs
> 
> But if I ever end up replacing my beloved Malmsjö then I give you permission to say “I told you so”


Nah, no need. I just felt like giving one of my favourite composer talents on this entire board a fatherly talk hehe. And Michael by the way is one of my other favourite composers on here, so cool to have you. I’m not in the business of being right about anything. It’s more, I don’t know… people stating opinions as indisputable facts? Triggers me all the time haha. Yep - I’m old and I prolly should leave the internet soon  ❤️


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## Baronvonheadless (Feb 13, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Thanks for the taking time to get this one better represented. Such nostalgia! Nice sounds.


My pleasure! Thanks for starting this and all who contributed the lovely midi. It's such a treat to get actual good midi of classics like this. Every time I search for old pieces the dynamics and tempo are all horrible. This was fun!

Yeah I really love the Golden Age Grand. It's taken a minute to vibe with my keyboard velocity and etc. and find the right sensitivity for specific pieces but once I've gelled with it, it's really, really special.


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## KEM (Feb 13, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> This piano honestly sounds like any piano with some reverb to me. However, this does remind me that the Batman Begins score is better than the Dark Knight score IMO.



I go back in forth on them, Batman Begins is a much more beautiful, emotional score, the orchestral writing is much more intricate and takes up a much larger portion of the music. But the themes and motifs in The Dark Knight are built up so well from where they were in Batman Begins, the ostinatos and electronic elements are much more prominent and everything is just bigger and hits harder, not to mention all of the Joker stuff is just impossible to beat. It really just depends on my mood and what kind of music I want to listen to, but most of the time it’s The Dark Knight


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## KEM (Feb 13, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Nah, no need. I just felt like giving one of my favourite composer talents on this entire board a fatherly talk hehe. And Michael by the way is one of my other favourite composers on here, so cool to have you. I’m not in the business of being right about anything. It’s more, I don’t know… people stating opinions as indisputable facts? Triggers me all the time haha. Yep - I’m old and I prolly should leave the internet soon  ❤️



Well I do have a habit of thinking my opinions are indisputable facts, such as TENET being the greatest film score of all time, but that one just might actually be true…


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## SupremeFist (Feb 13, 2022)

I don't really like the Malmsjö. I much prefer Piano in Blue for that kind of sound. (It's in John Powell's template!) Or Alt Piano or Ascend for that matter.


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## KEM (Feb 13, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> I don't really like the Malmsjö. I much prefer Piano in Blue for that kind of sound. (It's in John Powell's template!) Or Alt Piano or Ascend for that matter.



I actually had Piano In Blue long before I had the Malmsjö, I’ve revisited Piano In Blue a few times to see how it held up after using the Malmsjö for so long and while it’s a good piano I didn’t think it was nearly as good as the Malmsjö, its sound is just engrained into every fiber of my being at this point!!


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## Rudianos (Feb 13, 2022)

KEM said:


> I actually had Piano In Blue long before I had the Malmsjö, I’ve revisited Piano In Blue a few times to see how it held up after using the Malmsjö for so long and while it’s a good piano I didn’t think it was nearly as good as the Malmsjö, its sound is just engrained into every fiber of my being at this point!!


well how about running this threads now 7 MIDI files through it?


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## SupremeFist (Feb 13, 2022)

KEM said:


> I actually had Piano In Blue long before I had the Malmsjö, I’ve revisited Piano In Blue a few times to see how it held up after using the Malmsjö for so long and while it’s a good piano I didn’t think it was nearly as good as the Malmsjö, its sound is just engrained into every fiber of my being at this point!!


Sure, personal love is important and we're just splitting hairs for that particular kind of sound. I mean, no one in the audience is gonna hate the score because it's Labs Soft Piano instead of Noire, or whatnot.


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## KEM (Feb 13, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> well how about running this threads now 7 MIDI files through it?



Currently at work and as soon as I get off I’m going to a Super Bowl party, but I will as soon as I can!! Hopefully I’ll be able to get it posted tonight or tomorrow


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## KEM (Feb 13, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> Sure, personal love is important and we're just splitting hairs for that particular kind of sound. I mean, no one in the audience is gonna hate the score because it's Labs Soft Piano instead of Noire, or whatnot.



Very true, only us music nerds actually care about any of this stuff, the average person watching the movies or listening to the music couldn’t care less lol


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## CGR (Feb 13, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> So far we have a request for Garritan Yamaha CFX - and Id love to see the Synchrons. If someone wouldn't mind...


Leave it with me . . .


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## KEM (Feb 13, 2022)

Alright @Rudianos, here's the Malmsjö, everything in the Kontakt UI is turned off leaving only the raw piano sound (no convolution, hall, pedal, reverb, eq, or limiter), and there's no external reverbs or master bus processing at all, this is as bare bones as it gets

Albeniz:
View attachment Albeniz - Prelude Exposition - Chants d'Espagne.mp3


Chopin:
View attachment Chopin - Raindrop Prelude.mp3


Schubert:
View attachment Schubert - Sonato in AM.mp3


Tracce:
View attachment Tracce 2.mp3


Waltz for Debby:
View attachment Waltz for Debby.mp3


Wonderful World:
View attachment Wonderful World 2.mp3


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## Rudianos (Feb 13, 2022)

KEM said:


> Alright @Rudianos, here's the Malmsjö,


Thanks for representing this! Will give a good listen back home later.


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## CGR (Feb 13, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> So far we have a request for Garritan Yamaha CFX - and Id love to see the Synchrons. If someone wouldn't mind...


There's huge dynamic variation in this MIDI file, so I placed a Limiter on the Master Bus, which squashes the sound a little here & there and is not ideal, but allows a decent overall volume:

Garritan CFX Full - Classic perspective + built-in Scoring Stage reverb:
View attachment Garritan CFX Classic-Chopin-ballade-no4-op52.mp3


. . . and a piano closer in style/character to Chopin's era:
VSL's 1895 Bluthner Grand – Full Edition (Ribbon, Sphere & Surround mic mix + built-in Room Reverb):
View attachment VSL Bluthner Grand Full-Chopin-ballade-no4-op52.mp3


NOTE: I had trouble uploading 320 Kbps MP3 files, so these are at 224 Kbps.


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## CGR (Feb 13, 2022)

Here's an excerpt of the Chopin-ballade-no4-op52 with a piano closer to Chopin's time (and a brand he played) – Real Samples 1837 Erard Pianoforte:
View attachment Real Samples 1837 Erard Pianoforte - Chopin-ballade-no4-op52.mp3


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## SupremeFist (Feb 14, 2022)

CGR said:


> Here's an excerpt of the Chopin-ballade-no4-op52 with a piano closer to Chopin's time (and a brand he played) – Real Samples 1837 Erard Pianoforte:
> View attachment Real Samples 1837 Erard Pianoforte - Chopin-ballade-no4-op52.mp3





CGR said:


> There's huge dynamic variation in this MIDI file, so I placed a Limiter on the Master Bus, which squashes the sound a little here & there and is not ideal, but allows a decent overall volume:
> 
> Garritan CFX Full - Classic perspective + built-in Scoring Stage reverb:
> View attachment Garritan CFX Classic-Chopin-ballade-no4-op52.mp3
> ...


Blüthner wins 🤘🏻❤️


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## Fibigero (Feb 14, 2022)

Having listened to the 4th ballad a million times in my life I'm kinda unhappy with the sound of the previous examples. From a certain point on you can just hear it's a sample library even with the Garritan. I feel like it often depends on the piece itself.


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## Rudianos (Apr 21, 2022)

Vienna Symphonic Library gave us a free piano! @Ben Thank you!

Soft Imperial - Default

Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"

View attachment Raindrop - Soft Vienna.mp3


Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos Schubert Soft Again.mp3


Albeniz - Prelude (Exposition) - _Chants_ d'Espagne

View attachment Albeniz - Soft Vienna.mp3


Waltz for Debby

View attachment Debby - Soft Vienna.mp3


Tracce - Ludovico Einaudi

View attachment Tracce 2 - Vienna Soft Default.mp3


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## Rudianos (Apr 21, 2022)

And some Waltz for Debby with the different Soft Imperial Presets.

Old Radio

View attachment Debby - Soft - Cheap Radio.mp3


Granny's

View attachment Debby - Soft - Granny's.mp3


Phased

View attachment Debby - Soft - Phased.mp3


Warp

View attachment Debby - Soft - Warp.mp3


Ethereal

View attachment Debby - Soft - Ethereal.mp3


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## Rudianos (Apr 29, 2022)

Some talk about Muse deals. This was free at APD last month.

This piano has a number of mics. That may get other results. Only have time for this.

Muse Hermes - Default (Close)

Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"

View attachment Chopin Muse Hermes.mp3


Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1

View attachment Schubert Muse Hermes.mp3


Albeniz - Prelude (Exposition) - _Chants_ d'Espagne

View attachment Albeniz Muse Hermes.mp3


Waltz for Debby

View attachment Debby Muse Hermes.mp3


Tracce - Ludovico Einaudi (Weird Stuff Happening, didnt figure out why)

View attachment Tracce Muse Hermes.mp3


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## CGR (May 11, 2022)

fan455 said:


> Here's another faster version of Raindrop rendered with Pearl Conerct Grand. Repedal is needed. Half-pedal is not needed.
> 
> View attachment raindrop yundi p.mp3
> 
> ...



Tough piece for a sampled piano, and Pearl Concert Grand does surprisingly well. It has that lovely bell like hammer attack in the upper mids & treble which helps, although it struggles in the dynamic transitions around the 01:45 to 02:55 mark.

I'm testing an upcoming sampled piano at the moment which I feel will handle this piece really well


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## fan455 (May 11, 2022)

CGR said:


> Tough piece for a sampled piano, and Pearl Concert Grand does surprisingly well. It has that lovely bell like hammer attack in the upper mids & treble which helps, although it struggles in the dynamic transitions around the 01:45 to 02:55 mark.
> 
> I'm testing an upcoming sampled piano at the moment which I feel will handle this piece really well


Yeah, I suppose the resonances in the mid of the piece are too loud. I'll lower CC64 and do some eq to see if it's better.


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## CGR (May 11, 2022)

fan455 said:


> Here's the 24bit nki patch. I lowered the hall mic to -17.5db and raised release noises to -25db to enhance clarity. No other changes.
> 
> View attachment raindrop yundi p.mp3


I think it's missing the "bloom" from reducing the hall mics too much. What do you think about this excerpt?:

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop - excerpt_01.mp3


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## fan455 (May 11, 2022)

CGR said:


> I think it's missing the "bloom" from reducing the hall mics too much. What do you think about this excerpt?:
> 
> View attachment Chopin - Raindrop - excerpt_01.mp3


Sounds weak in low and low-mid frequency range to me.


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## CeDur (May 12, 2022)

Somehow I didn't connect well with Pearl when playing, but resonances this library is able to generate are so rich and authentic.


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## CGR (May 12, 2022)

fan455 said:


> Sounds weak in low and low-mid frequency range to me.


It's actually quite close to the reference video you posted.


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## slobajudge (May 12, 2022)

CGR said:


> I think it's missing the "bloom" from reducing the hall mics too much. What do you think about this excerpt?:
> 
> View attachment Chopin - Raindrop - excerpt_01.mp3


CGR, which piano is it ?


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## gmon (May 12, 2022)

I see you have a few Pianoteq modeled pianos in amongst the vast quantity of sampled pianos in this thread. I wondering how the brand new Arturia Piano V3 modeled pianos hold up in comparison. 12 models to choose from, with a fair bit of control available. The Arturia German Grand sounds pretty decent to me.


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## Rudianos (May 12, 2022)

@doctoremmet do you have the Arturia Piano V3 ? ^^^


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## Rudianos (May 14, 2022)

Some Sampletekk - they have these PMI for sale for a limited time. It was funny I was about to email them to see if they had extra licenses and voila.

All sounds are default out of the box. Factory verbs untouched. There are several avenues of adjustment within UI. The imperial is quiet on default settings. It can be turned up some.

Chopin Raindrop

Sampletekk PMI Bosendorfer Imperial

View attachment Chopin - Imperial.mp3


Sampletekk PMI Old Lady Steinway

View attachment Chopin - Old Lady.mp3


Sampletekk PMI The Emperor (Imperial with CEUS)

View attachment Chopin - Emperor.mp3


Sampletekk PMI Bosendorfer Imperial - No Verb - Raised the Low Dynamics

View attachment Chopin - Imperial Mod.mp3


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## jben (May 14, 2022)

I just upgraded my Arturia Piano V2 to V3, so I'll share the raindrop through some presets. As @Rudianos did before me, they all are default settings out of the box.

Arturia Piano *V2* - American Init
View attachment Arturia Piano V2 - American Init.mp3


Arturia Piano V3 - American Grand
View attachment Arturia Piano V3-American Grand.mp3


Arturia Piano V3 - German Grand
View attachment Arturia Piano V3-German Grand.mp3


Arturia Piano V3 - Japanese Grand
View attachment Arturia Piano V3-Japanese Grand.mp3


Arturia Piano V3 - Pop Grand
View attachment Arturia Piano V3-Pop Grand.mp3


Arturia Piano V3 - Classical Upright
View attachment Arturia Piano V3 - Classical Upright.mp3


Arturia Piano V3 - Jazz Upright
View attachment Arturia Piano V3 - Jazz Upright.mp3


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## slobajudge (May 14, 2022)

jben said:


> I just upgraded my Arturia Piano V2 to V3, so I'll share the raindrop through some presets. As @Rudianos did before me, they all are default settings out of the box.
> 
> Arturia Piano *V2* - American Init
> View attachment Arturia Piano V2 - American Init.mp3
> ...


Interestingly, I like the classical upright the most and Jazz upright a little, the others not at all.


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## jben (May 14, 2022)

I'm having a lot of fun dropping different midi files in my DAW from the web: https://www.yamahaden.com/midi-files

I like the German and the American, as well as the Classical Upright. I'm comparing them with my favourite, the Ravenscroft, and so far I'm liking the Arturia ones as much as the Ravenscroft, each with its own characteristic tone.

Tomorrow I will connect the computer to my digital piano (Kawai CA99) to check the playability of all of them (the Ravenscroft is my favourite at the moment for both sound and playability).


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## slobajudge (May 14, 2022)

As for the sound, I don't know if Arthuria pianos can compete with the Ravenscroft piano, I'll see tomorrow when my ears rest a bit.


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## jben (May 15, 2022)

I've been playing all morning with the Ravenscroft, the Arturia V3 and the SSSG and, although I like the tone of the Ravenscroft the best (it took me several times to dial in the sound to my liking), the Arturia has excellent playability, and allows better buffering than the Ravenscroft with my Motu M4 (RTL of 4ms with the Ravenscroft vs 1 ms with the Arturia; the SSSG is less efficient than the others).

It will take me a while to get the sound I want from Arturia piano (I'm looking for a sound between German Grand and American Grand), but the playability for me is excellent. I'm happy with it. And I also have the Ravenscroft for the days I want that wonderful sound it offers.


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## DawdlePuss (May 15, 2022)

jben said:


> I've been playing all morning with the Ravenscroft, the Arturia V3 and the SSSG and, although I like the tone of the Ravenscroft the best (it took me several times to dial in the sound to my liking), the Arturia has excellent playability, and allows better buffering than the Ravenscroft with my Motu M4 (RTL of 4ms with the Ravenscroft vs 1 ms with the Arturia; the SSSG is less efficient than the others).
> 
> It will take me a while to get the sound I want from Arturia piano (I'm looking for a sound between German Grand and American Grand), but the playability for me is excellent. I'm happy with it. And I also have the Ravenscroft for the days I want that wonderful sound it offers.


If you don't mind me prying, I'd like to know a little more about the sound you get from Ravenscroft and how you get it. I agree, the playability is top of the heap, but I struggle to get a warmer, more intimate sound, the sound I prefer, out of it.


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## jben (May 15, 2022)

I think that the sound of the piano is a totally personal thing, and what one person likes does not have to be right for another. Having said that, the parameters I am comfortable playing with the Ravenscroft are:




Sometimes I will add a bit of saturation and eq with the Fuse Audio VCS-1 Channel, and also a subtle bit of reverb from Seventh Heaven, but my sound base is in the image above.


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## liquidlino (May 17, 2022)

Did some testing of pianos, thought worth sharing here. An excerpt of Chopin Op9 No2. Wide range of tonal and dynamic range in this excerpt.

All Are disabled internal reverb with same R4 20% mix reverb. Otherwise completely out of the box settings. No adjusting of midi performance to each piano. No EQ, Compression or anything else, not even a limiter. Rendered and then normalized to -1.0db true peak in Reaper. Including some different pianos here.

Arturia Japanese Home Clean (from Analog Labs V)
View attachment Arturia Japanese Home Clean.mp3


UVI Austrian Grand
View attachment Austrian Grand.mp3


UVI Grand Upright
View attachment Grand Upright.mp3


Pianobook Isolation Piano Tubes and Tape
View attachment Isolation Piano Pianobook.mp3


VSL Soft Imperial Dry Conductor
View attachment VSL Soft Imperial.mp3


XLN Studio Grand default settings
View attachment XLN Studio Grand.mp3


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## tressie5 (May 17, 2022)

I think if Chopin was still alive, he'd be tickled pink about the reverence his name conjures, from pristine Deutsce Grammophone recordings to piano competitions to live performances to endless discussions on the internet, while his contemporaries like Czerny, Henselt and Alkan are wailing, "It's just not fair!"


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## Rudianos (May 18, 2022)

Key Instruments @keyinstruments gives us their new (vintage) piano VI ... The Oeser. Such a lovely array of tones and the playability is fantastic. Wonderful potential for pensive movie scenes - relaxing with a drink in the evening - and textured underscoring. 40 GB+ of piano joy. All of these are default settings.

Waltz for Debby

The Oeser - Pure

View attachment Debby - Pure.mp3


The Oeser - Picked

View attachment Debby - Picked.mp3


The Oeser - Muted

View attachment Debby - Muted.mp3


The Oeser - Felt

View attachment Debby - Felt.mp3


Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"

The Oeser - Pure

View attachment Waltz - Pure.mp3


Albeniz - Prelude (Exposition) - _Chants_ d'Espagne

The Oeser - Picked

View attachment Albeniz Picked.mp3


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## keyinstruments (May 20, 2022)

Wow @Rudianos, how nice of you to showcase our piano like this! Super complimentary, especially since this piano is meant to be in a room, for chamber music. We are very delighted to hear what you did with all the instruments of The Oeser and we hope this helps others choosing a new addition to their (probably extensive) instrument library. Thank you!


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## Dylanguitar (May 30, 2022)

I know this was talked about earlier in the thread. Just now getting back into the Steinway Walnut Grand (Pro version) which I got during Black Friday. I know it's been demonstrated on this thread, the obvious velocity jump as you start at a low, but using the Close mic, which is the one I like the sound of the most, there seems to be a big jump in the stereo field as well, which is to me more problematic than just the velocity jump. It's almost as if the lower velocity was recorded in mono, then it jumps to a much wider stereo field one velocity layer up. Kind of bizarre and unnatural sounding. I wish this weren't the case, since the actual piano is so beautiful. I'm wondering if upgrading from the pro to the extreme actually cures this issue. (and do I really want to spend $75 to gamble and find out that I'm not happy.)


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## CGR (May 30, 2022)

Dylanguitar said:


> I know this was talked about earlier in the thread. Just now getting back into the Steinway Walnut Grand (Pro version) which I got during Black Friday. I know it's been demonstrated on this thread, the obvious velocity jump as you start at a low, but using the Close mic, which is the one I like the sound of the most, there seems to be a big jump in the stereo field as well, which is to me more problematic than just the velocity jump. It's almost as if the lower velocity was recorded in mono, then it jumps to a much wider stereo field one velocity layer up. Kind of bizarre and unnatural sounding. I wish this weren't the case, since the actual piano is so beautiful. I'm wondering if upgrading from the pro to the extreme actually cures this issue. (and do I really want to spend $75 to gamble and find out that I'm not happy.)


There are some inconsistencies with the Imperfect Samples pianos, but they become less obvious in the Extreme version due to the increased velocity layers. I'd be happy to render a MIDI file of yours with the Walnut Extreme if you'd like to send it to me in a PM.


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## Dylanguitar (May 30, 2022)

CGR said:


> There are some inconsistencies with the Imperfect Samples pianos, but they become less obvious in the Extreme version due to the increased velocity layers. I'd be happy to render a MIDI file of yours with the Walnut Extreme if you'd like to send it to me in a PM.


I don't have anything specific, but thank you for the offer. I was just concerned about very soft and delicate playing, to have that weird, sample-specific narrowing of the stereo field. I'm guessing upgrading to the "extreme" version would be the way to go to fix the velocity jump, as the version in between "complete" only offers 4 more velocity layers on the close mic, but I'm guessing that because they are "adding" velocity layers, it really wouldn't improve the narrow sound of the very soft existing velocity layers. It's not like they re-sampled it.
Another question: do you hear any tuning discrepancies between the various microphones? I might be imagining it but I think I hear a slight chorusing sound between the player perspective and the close mic when they both play together, like maybe they tuned between sampling sessions.


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## CGR (May 30, 2022)

Dylanguitar said:


> I don't have anything specific, but thank you for the offer. I was just concerned about very soft and delicate playing, to have that weird, sample-specific narrowing of the stereo field. I'm guessing upgrading to the "extreme" version would be the way to go to fix the velocity jump, as the version in between "complete" only offers 4 more velocity layers on the close mic, but I'm guessing that because they are "adding" velocity layers, it really wouldn't improve the narrow sound of the very soft existing velocity layers. It's not like they re-sampled it.
> Another question: do you hear any tuning discrepancies between the various microphones? I might be imagining it but I think I hear a slight chorusing sound between the player perspective and the close mic when they both play together, like maybe they tuned between sampling sessions.


Yeah, the extra velocity layers aren't going to alleviate any stereo image problems you're hearing. I'll sometimes edit the MIDI afterwards with the Imperfect Samples, by changing the velocity value of any problem notes to either above or below the original velocity of the note/s to resolve a problem. Not ideal, but it's a tradeoff I'm OK with because the tone & character is so good.

I keep the mic mixes pretty simple – only two at a time at most. The Room mics are fairly "Roomy" so to speak, so maybe the chorusing is phase correlation issues when mixing with the closer mics. Not sure about the Close & Player together - would need to check (I mainly use P2 & P3).


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## Rudianos (May 30, 2022)

Dylanguitar said:


> I know this was talked about earlier in the thread. Just now getting back into the Steinway Walnut Grand (Pro version) which I got during Black Friday. I know it's been demonstrated on this thread, the obvious velocity jump as you start at a low, but using the Close mic, which is the one I like the sound of the most, there seems to be a big jump in the stereo field as well, which is to me more problematic than just the velocity jump. It's almost as if the lower velocity was recorded in mono, then it jumps to a much wider stereo field one velocity layer up. Kind of bizarre and unnatural sounding. I wish this weren't the case, since the actual piano is so beautiful. I'm wondering if upgrading from the pro to the extreme actually cures this issue. (and do I really want to spend $75 to gamble and find out that I'm not happy.)


would something like DJ Swivel Spread or Vienna Pan Pro Help center the sounds of the piano? maybe to minimize that effect?


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## Dylanguitar (May 30, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> would something like DJ Swivel Spread or Vienna Pan Pro Help center the sounds of the piano? maybe to minimize that effect?


I'm not sure its a centering issue. I'm not sure it's an issue at all and not just my imagination. Was just curious if anybody else had heard the same thing. I'm probably going to wait to see what Black Friday brings as far as an upgrade. I'm not in a rush and I can work with what I have and $75 seems a bit steep to kinda-sorta correct an issue. Beautiful sounding piano so it's a bit of a shame it's that nuanced range in the lower velocity, where the problem lies.


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## fan455 (Jun 9, 2022)

CGR said:


> I think it's missing the "bloom" from reducing the hall mics too much. What do you think about this excerpt?:
> 
> View attachment Chopin - Raindrop - excerpt_01.mp3


Hi Craig, is this the new Piano F?


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## CGR (Jun 9, 2022)

fan455 said:


> Hi Craig, is this the new Piano F?


Ha! Good ears. It was an early beta version


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## fan455 (Jun 9, 2022)

CGR said:


> Ha! Good ears. It was an early beta version


Sounds unbalanced between the high and low keys, but it's adjustable in the released version. Good!


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## Rudianos (Jun 9, 2022)

CGR said:


> Ha! Good ears. It was an early beta version


how does that Piano F feel to play?


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## CGR (Jun 9, 2022)

fan455 said:


> Sounds unbalanced between the high and low keys, but it's adjustable in the released version. Good!


Yeah, there was a lot of fine tuning done since then. The release version is beautifully balanced and very inspiring to play. The promo video and audio demos are what you get – full, rich & realistic.


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## CGR (Jun 9, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> how does that Piano F feel to play?


It's excellent. I use a triple sensor hammer action keyboard (Yamaha CP4 Stage) and it feels very natural and responsive. The piano has a great combination of clarity and warmth.


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## fan455 (Jun 9, 2022)

Piano F is beautiful. It sounds like a studio recording. (I'd prefer a concert hall recording...) Yamaha and Steinway are my favorite, Fazioli not my taste (probably the bass notes...) ...so I'm still waiting for a Due sale.


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## CGR (Jun 9, 2022)

Here's the Chopin Raindrop excerpt again with the release version of the Xperimenta PF2 Piano F. Mic mix and internal reverb settings are below.
View attachment Xperimenta PF2 Piano F - Chopin Raindrop.mp3


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## sostenuto (Jun 9, 2022)

While following this impressive PF2 discussion _ just saw Steinberg announce of 4KNOB RAIN PIANO @ usd 70. Since I have SampleTEKK Rain Piano Mk2 _ assume this remains distinctly different /improved.
Will watch here for additional comment ?


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## CGR (Jun 9, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> While following this impressive PF2 discussion _ just saw Steinberg announce of 4KNOB RAIN PIANO @ usd 70. Since I have SampleTEKK Rain Piano Mk2 _ assume this remains distinctly different /improved.
> Will watch here for additional comment ?


FYI, the Steinberg 4Knob Upright appears to be the very same piano - captured by Sampletekk - as the Vintage Upright in EZkeys (also a Sampletekk collaboration). Same sampling session by the looks of the photos. Also, I'm pretty sure the Sampletekk Rain Piano is an entirely different piano.


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## sostenuto (Jun 9, 2022)

CGR said:


> FYI, the Steinberg 4Knob Upright appears to be the very same piano - captured by Sampletekk - as the Vintage Upright in EZkeys (also a Sampletekk collaboration). Same sampling session by the looks of the photos. Also, I'm pretty sure the Sampletekk Rain Piano is an entirely different piano.


Many thanks for helping ! Likely quick add at this reasonable cost.


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## CGR (Jun 9, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Many thanks for helping ! Likely quick add at this reasonable cost.


If you already have an EZkeys product, keep your eye open for an EZkeys expansion sale which Toontrack have offered in the past for around 49 euro. The EZkeys expansion pack licenses sometimes appear here in the For Sale forum.


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## Gerbil (Jun 9, 2022)

CGR said:


> Here's the Chopin Raindrop excerpt again with the release version of the Xperimenta PF2 Piano F. Mic mix and internal reverb settings are below.
> View attachment Xperimenta PF2 Piano F - Chopin Raindrop.mp3


I don't know if it's the velocity settings, the programming or the playing, but the lowest notes just seem to almost disappear in places. I noticed that on the official demos as well. It sort of sounds like someone's pulling the volume fader down on notes and they're almost evaporating.

EDIT - it's not just the lower notes. I'm hearing it in the chords as well. I have my doubts about how even this would feel under the fingers.


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## CGR (Jun 9, 2022)

Gerbil said:


> I don't know if it's the velocity settings, the programming or the playing, but the lowest notes just seem to almost disappear in places. I noticed that on the official demos as well. It sort of sounds like someone's pulling the volume fader down on notes and they're almost evaporating.
> 
> EDIT - it's not just the lower notes. I'm hearing it in the chords as well. I have my doubts about how even this would feel under the fingers.


I rendered the audio using the Chopin Raindrop MIDI posted earlier in this thread, without editing any velocities. It's often a tricky task running a MIDI file on a sampled piano when it was played with a different sound source, so some editing of note velocities to suit this piano would help I'd suggest.


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## Gerbil (Jun 9, 2022)

CGR said:


> I rendered the audio using the Chopin Raindrop MIDI posted earlier in this thread, without editing any velocities. It's often a tricky task running a MIDI file on a sampled piano when it was played with a different sound source, so some editing of note velocities to suit this piano would help I'd suggest.


I do like the sound and the close mic especially, but I think they need to edit the official demos some more. The Liszt and Prokofiev pieces both suffer from the same problem.

I've bought a silly amount of piano libraries over the years and have a real gripe with instruments that don't feel right under the fingers even after exhaustive tweaking. They're the one type of library where I wish developers would release a trial octave so I could 'feel' the piano before commiting.


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## CGR (Jun 9, 2022)

Gerbil said:


> I do like the sound and the close mic especially, but I think they need to edit the official demos some more. The Liszt and Prokofiev pieces both suffer from the same problem.
> 
> I've bought a silly amount of piano libraries over the years and have a real gripe with instruments that don't feel right under the fingers even after exhaustive tweaking. They're the one type of library where I wish developers would release a trial octave so I could 'feel' the piano before commiting.


Yes, the fuller "picture" isn't revealed until they're under _your_ fingers on _your_ keyboard playing _your_ music. It's a frustrating aspect when buying sampled pianos – a lot of listening, reading and eventually a leap of faith!


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## fan455 (Jun 9, 2022)

Gerbil said:


> I don't know if it's the velocity settings, the programming or the playing, but the lowest notes just seem to almost disappear in places. I noticed that on the official demos as well. It sort of sounds like someone's pulling the volume fader down on notes and they're almost evaporating.
> 
> EDIT - it's not just the lower notes. I'm hearing it in the chords as well. I have my doubts about how even this would feel under the fingers.


It's adjustable. There's slider on its GUI. In kontakt a key position to volume modulation can easily do it (but this modulation is NOT a linear curve). If they do volume normalization for all the samples, it might solve the issue better... But Fazioli's lower notes just sound very different compared to Steinway or Yamaha. In these 2 videos I might... rank Fazioli fourth. The bass just not the way I like. (Yeah the recording time is quite different.) Besides, I like the Steinway and Yamaha in the video most. Bosendorfer's sustain is a bit short, and its high notes stand out not as well as the others.


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## CGR (Jun 9, 2022)

I think so many people are conditioned to hearing Steinways as "the" piano sound (they dominate the concert stages around the world) that it can sometimes be surprising to hear the difference of the other premium brands. The Fazioli sound is more direct and somewhat not as complex, with less of the overtones and ringing harmonics of the Steinway duplex scale and transfer of energy to its soundboard.


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## CGR (Jun 10, 2022)

Gerbil said:


> I don't know if it's the velocity settings, the programming or the playing, but the lowest notes just seem to almost disappear in places. I noticed that on the official demos as well. It sort of sounds like someone's pulling the volume fader down on notes and they're almost evaporating.
> 
> EDIT - it's not just the lower notes. I'm hearing it in the chords as well. I have my doubts about how even this would feel under the fingers.


Here's some simple unedited live playing at low velocity to give you an idea. Mic settings are below (no reverb):
View attachment Xperimenta PF2 Piano F - SOFT-DRY.mp3


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## Gerbil (Jun 10, 2022)

CGR said:


> I think so many people are conditioned to hearing Steinways as "the" piano sound (they dominate the concert stages around the world) that it can sometimes be surprising to hear the difference of the other premium brands. The Fazioli sound is more direct and somewhat not as complex, with less of the overtones and ringing harmonics of the Steinway duplex scale and transfer of energy to its soundboard.


Definitely a different sound but one I am used to. Our college bought one for their performance hall a couple of years ago.

Thanks for your time providing a fresh example. It does sound very nice.


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## drjee (Jun 10, 2022)

Hi,

I did not go through all of the 20 pages of discussion, thus, maybe, other people might have already made similar points to mine. So, please ignore, if you feel that it is redundant what I have to remark.

These sound examples, as is true for most of this kind of shootouts, are interesting to listen to, but, unfortunately, are imo almost pointless for a real comparison for the following reasons:
a) a player would adjust the playing style to the response of the respective piano library. This has a massive impact on how (good pr bad) a library sounds
b) loudness is a major factor which will determine preference, so at least the files would have to be loudness adjusted.
c) room is also a major factor. The right reverb/room can have a lot of influence on our preference.
d) the pieces/MIDI files chosen are not ideal for a comparison as they are mostly on the piano and not on the forte side of the pianoforte.
e) I suppose most libraries were rendered out of the box without tweaking. But many libraries can be tweaked deeply and I often find the "factory" sound disappointing. I will demonstrate this (and the versatility of some libraries) with the example of the Galaxy Vintage D (playing the Schubert file) which I quite like, but which imo does not sound favourable "out of the box" (in all cases no external processing except some basic loudness adjustment):

Galaxy Vintage D "out of the box" (factory preset "Basic Grand" which is the default when you load it)
View attachment 01VintDFactoryBasicGrand.mp3


Galaxy Vintage D with my own preset "Classical Dark":
View attachment 02VintDAKJClassicalDark.mp3


Galaxy Vintage D with my own preset "Classical Bright":
View attachment 03VintDAKJClassicalBright.mp3


Galaxy Vintage D with my own preset "Goulden" (which tries to recreate the sound of Glenn Gould which is probably not ideal for this piece):
View attachment 04VintDAKJGoulden.mp3


Galaxy Vintage D with my own preset "Intimate":
View attachment 05VintDAKJIntimate.mp3


Galaxy Vintage D with my own preset "Rocky" (well, more suited for Rock):
View attachment 06VintDAKJRocky.mp3


I hope this shows some of the possible variety within the same soundset


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## Rudianos (Jun 10, 2022)

drjee said:


> Hi,
> 
> I did not go through all of the 20 pages of discussion, thus, maybe, other people might have already made similar points to mine. So, please ignore, if you feel that it is redundant what I have to remark.


I appreciate your input and your renders. You do coax quite a bit of variety out of that Galaxy Vintage D!

Maybe I'll generate something with more loud Dynamics. Raindrop gets pretty darn powerful in the B section.

In the attempt to provide a control and default I suppose there are drawbacks. Scrolling way back hearing different peoples Synchron sounds really spoke to me on what that series can sound like with persistent tweaking. To me out of the box sounds lifeless, there have been some exceptional tweaks posted here.

I'll be content to accept this thread maybe is merely able to show the base elements of each library. With that I also encourage new ideas how to compensate.. And if sounds are tweaked, Ideally every FX and setting will be posted along with the render.


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## CGR (Jun 12, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Many thanks for helping ! Likely quick add at this reasonable cost.


Apologies for the confusion! I've just discovered Steinberg have released the 4 Knob Rain Piano. I was referring to their 4 Knob Upright which seems to be the same piano as the EZkeys Vintage upright.


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## Rudianos (Jun 16, 2022)

VSL German Upright

Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"

Concert Mix

View attachment Chopin - German - Concert.mp3


Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1

Concert Mix

View attachment Schubert - German - Concert.mp3


Albeniz - Prelude (Exposition) - _Chants_ d'Espagne

Player Mix

View attachment Albeniz - German - Player.mp3


Waltz for Debby

Player Mix

View attachment Debby - German - Player.mp3


Vintage Mix

View attachment Debby - German - Vintage.mp3


Old Radio

View attachment Debby - German - Old Radio.mp3


Tracce - Ludovico Einaudi

Concert Mix

View attachment Tracce - German - Concert.mp3


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## Vik (Jun 21, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> What I reach for now ... Vienna Imperial - that is 100 velocity layers in 40 GB.


Is there a way to free some RAM, when needed, by running it wth fewer velocity layers?


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## Rudianos (Jun 21, 2022)

Vik said:


> Is there a way to free some RAM, when needed, by running it wth fewer velocity layers?


hmmm dont think so ... solid 1167 - 1350mb of usage at all times for me


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## Vik (Jun 21, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> hmmm dont think so ... solid 1167 - 1350mb of usage at all times for me


Thanks. 

Btw, it's not the circa 1gb of RAM that bothers me, it's all the 'real time streaming' of samples in the background. It's a large library (108 gb or 237 gb), so it would be great if it (and other libraries) had something like this:


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## Rudianos (Jun 21, 2022)

Vik said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Btw, it's not the circa 1gb of RAM that bothers me, it's all the 'real time streaming' of samples in the background. It's a large library (108 gb or 237 gb), so it would be great if it (and other libraries) had something like this:


Right right that's a pretty special feature of the Walker I don't think I've seen that in quite that way anywhere else.


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## Vik (Jun 22, 2022)

That's too bad, because it could be very useful. Berlin Strings have something similar – one can enable or disable any of the four dynamic layers, and the remaining layers will be spread out over the full velocity range. For a piano with 100 layers, one could probably remove most of them in a recording or work-in-progress situation (when needed), and get a much more stable and reliable system.
The good news is that thanks this thread, I've discovered a lot of other pianos to look closer at - like The Hammersmith Pro Edition and the VI Labs Italian (Fazioli) – in addition to those I have found out about earlier (Light & Sound, NI Noire, the Vienna Imperial, Embertone Walker and more).


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## SupremeFist (Jun 22, 2022)

Vik said:


> For a piano with 100 layers, one could probably remove moat of them in a recording or work-in-progress situation (when needed), and get a much more stable and reliable system.


Never had the slightest problems with stability or reliability running VSL pianos on my system. (Mac Mini i7; libraries on external SSD.)


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## Vik (Jun 22, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> Never had the slightest problems with stability or reliability running VSL pianos on my system. (Mac Mini i7; libraries on external SSD.)


That's good to hear. Have you also used it on tracks with lots of orchestral instruments?


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## CeDur (Jun 22, 2022)

There is a lot in how the plugin is scripted. With VSL I can run 3 mics simultanously and play without cracks and pops while Walker with 2x less layers I can barely run with 1 mic at 36 layers setting.


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## SupremeFist (Jun 22, 2022)

Vik said:


> That's good to hear. Have you also used it on tracks with lots of orchestral instruments?


Yes, works fine here.


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## CGR (Jun 22, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> Never had the slightest problems with stability or reliability running VSL pianos on my system. (Mac Mini i7; libraries on external SSD.)


Very similar specs & experience here. Gotta love VSL


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## Marcus Millfield (Jun 22, 2022)

Same on a 2017 Dell XPS i7 with libraries on a Samsung T7 on USB3.1

No issues with the full libraries.


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## thierry.ecuvillon (Jun 25, 2022)

i have buy today CinePiano and i have made my new setting: Galaxy Vintage D + CinePiano (on, kontakt)
hère is my files, it's my pleasure: Vintage D default preset, player setting and Cinepiano classic with rev OFF : it is my classical new preset
second preset : same setting for Vintage D
- for CINePIANO:main vol -3dB- perspective On (the right corner of the fader at same level of the right red vertical line) Full off, Close off, room ans surround ON, EQ and REV OFF
Exept one note ( G#5 on Cinepiano detuned ) all the two piano are really well working in same time together, the proximity with Vintage D and the room with Cinepiano


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## thierry.ecuvillon (Jun 25, 2022)

in first, the classic preset, in second the modern  (really quickly done, just for have a idea )
there is nothing more than the kontakt file, so no plugin .


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## thierry.ecuvillon (Jun 25, 2022)

Vintage D with 2 rev


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## tc9000 (Jun 25, 2022)

thierry.ecuvillon said:


> in first, the classic preset, in second the modern  (really quickly done, just for have a idea )
> there is nothing more than the kontakt file, so no plugin .


This sounds great! Now I'm going to have to go and have yet another look at Vintage D and Cinepiano, aren't I? Damn it! HAHA


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## Rudianos (Jun 25, 2022)

thierry.ecuvillon said:


> Vintage D with 2 rev



Thanks for the share. If you would like to send over MIDI I can run it through some other pianos too. Good sounds! I am in negotiation for CinePiano now.


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## thierry.ecuvillon (Jun 25, 2022)

tc9000 said:


> This sounds great! Now I'm going to have to go and have yet another look at Vintage D and Cinepiano, aren't I? Damn it! HAHA


This nocturne is just with Vintage D (no Cinepiano with)
i have use arturia Comp-Tube-STA for transient control, and 2 rev Seventh Heaven Pro : studio B close and studio B Far.
My new preset with Vintage D+Cinepiano don't use the Rev because the idea is to use the room of the Cinepiano ..


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## thierry.ecuvillon (Jun 26, 2022)

Not possible to send the nkm kontakt files, so i have compressed it 
i have finally find where is the problem with CinePiano: g#5 and 6 are detuned because the Soundboard was ON.
just put it Off and all is ok now.
For the classic preset, the main cinepiano vol is 0 dB but -3 can be cool specially if you put a extra rev


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## thierry.ecuvillon (Jun 26, 2022)

thierry.ecuvillon said:


> i have buy today CinePiano and i have made my new setting: Galaxy Vintage D + CinePiano (on, kontakt)
> hère is my files, it's my pleasure: Vintage D default preset, player setting and Cinepiano classic with rev OFF : it is my classical new preset
> second preset : same setting for Vintage D
> - for CINePIANO:main vol -3dB- perspective On (the right corner of the fader at same level of the right red vertical line) Full off, Close off, room ans surround ON, EQ and REV OFF
> Exept one note ( G#5 on Cinepiano detuned ) all the two piano are really well working in same time together, the proximity with Vintage D and the room with Cinepiano


i have finally find where is the problem with CinePiano: g#5 and 6 are detuned because the Soundboard was ON.
just put it Off and all is ok now.
The Soundboard is not important here because the main idea is to take the room ambiance of the CinePiano.
(we still have the quality of the Close mic from the Vintage D)


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## slobajudge (Jun 26, 2022)

thierry.ecuvillon said:


> in first, the classic preset, in second the modern  (really quickly done, just for have a idea )
> there is nothing more than the kontakt file, so no plugin .


It really sounds great. I prefer a modern preset. The only thing I added a little was the external reverb. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## thierry.ecuvillon (Jun 26, 2022)

slobajudge said:


> It really sounds great. I prefer a modern preset. The only thing I added a little was the external reverb. Thanks for the suggestion.


i have updated my post, don't forget to put off the Soundboard in setting part of Cinepiano, because it detune the G#5 and 6. I have post the kontakt file updated just now


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## nottipiglet (Jun 27, 2022)

I bought the Borsendorfer 280vc because it sounds great. However, after spending some time with it, I conclude that that Synchron pianos are not suitable for advanced pianists. Most notably, it does not support silent keys. This means that if you depress the keys slowly, you will surely get a sound. This does not happen with a real piano. If you depress a real piano key slowly, you will get no sound. If you are practicing something like Chopin’s Prelude Op28/4, and you strive to get that pianissimo murmur in the left hand right… after practicing on the Synchron, you will have lots of missing notes when you move to a real piano because a real piano does not behave anything like a Synchron. Also, a Synchron does not support sympathetic resonance. That is, if you hold down notes or chords, the strings will ring via the vibrations created when you strike other notes. This is an important effect. Bach wrote pieces with sympathetic resonance in mind. If it is missing, you will never hear and feel it, and never develop a sensitivity to it. Basically, your musical growth will be stunted if you play on a Synchron piano in the long run. This is shameful, because it has a huge price tag, but it does not have basic features like sympathetic resonance or silent keys. Many people have given their feedback, but VSL has chosen to ignore this. They say it is not their priority. They are focused on sampling new instruments to drive sales. They do not care about fixing their broken piano. I would vote for Garritan or PianoTeq if you want a playable piano.


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## CeDur (Jun 27, 2022)

Yes, Pianoteq is very playable. Its only issue is it does not sound exactly like a real piano.

Silent key can be achieved very easily by playing with MIDI velocity settings, either within Synchron Piano Player or in external plugin (just make the adjustment so value 1 from keyboard is ignored).

The sympathetic resonance feature is implemented in Synchron pianos. By default it is turned off. I must admit though, it does not sound very realistic.

I take *authentic* piano tone (which VSL gives me) over all those other features. Since I bought VSL CFX, I hardly touch Garritan CFX (which is of course very nice).


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## nottipiglet (Jun 27, 2022)

CeDur said:


> Yes, Pianoteq is very playable. Its only issue is it does not sound exactly like a real piano.
> 
> Silent key can be achieved very easily by playing with MIDI velocity settings, either within Synchron Piano Player or in external plugin (just make the adjustment so value 1 from keyboard is ignored).
> 
> ...


I tried to adjust the velocity curve as you mentioned. It does not work. They key is not silent. 

You said sympathetic resonance has been implemented? How do you turn it on? I need to look it up. 

You are right that PianoTeq does not sound real… but I need the proper feedback while practicing… and nothing sounds exactly pretty after a couple of hours of practicing. 😂


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## CeDur (Jun 27, 2022)

I use this plugin for custom velocities: https://freevstplugins.net/midicurve/

Sympathetic FX is here, but don't expect too much from it:


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## nottipiglet (Jun 27, 2022)

CeDur said:


> I use this plugin for custom velocities: https://freevstplugins.net/midicurve/
> 
> Sympathetic FX is here, but don't expect too much from it:


Thank you. It works. It’s not perfect, but it’s good enough for me. I just need the feedback. I do not need perfection. 👍

The main problem with VSL’s implementation is that the resonance cuts off abruptly after about 2 seconds. So, we cannot set the volume of the resonance too high, or the cutoff will be jarring.


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## CeDur (Jun 27, 2022)

I envy your ability to hear the sympathetic resonance when playing. I can only 'hear' it when testing if it exists in a particular piano VI. What I miss from VSL is not a sympathetic resonance, but real una corda samples. For now Embertone Walker is the best in that regard. Not that I actually 'miss' it, but it would be 'nice to have'.


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## Rudianos (Jun 27, 2022)

CeDur said:


> I envy your ability to hear the sympathetic resonance when playing. I can only 'hear' it when testing if it exists in a particular piano VI. What I miss from VSL is not a sympathetic resonance, but real una corda samples. For now Embertone Walker is the best in that regard. Not that I actually 'miss' it, but it would be 'nice to have'.


Have you Tried Vienna Imperial Una Corda  ??? ... anyways I call on VSL @Ben to inject Una Corda and a better Sympathetic Process with an option of a 0 volume note to your Synchrons. Start with Yamaha and work your way forward. Your pianos are too awesome to not include this. Clearly you have made a masterpiece. Make it truly so  ... oh and add half pedaling to the Vienna Imperial when you get that ported over to Ilok  please.


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## nottipiglet (Jun 27, 2022)

I cannot hear it for music that is not written for it. It is only obvious for some music… particularly Bach when there is a lot of finger pedaling. 

As for una corda sampling… I am less sensitive to it because my day-piano is an upright… and the una corda of an upright is really just moving the hammer closer to the strings and thereby reducing striking momentum. So una corda changes the touch more than the tone for an upright. For most grands, the una corda shifts the felt of the hammer to an area less struck and therefore more mellow… the tone changes dramatically. You need to sample the una corda for that effect… the effect is more pronounced for an older piano.


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## Vik (Jun 27, 2022)

nottipiglet said:


> f you are practicing something like Chopin’s Prelude Op28/4, and you strive to get that pianissimo murmur in the left hand right… after practicing on the Synchron, you will have lots of missing notes when you move to a real piano because a real piano does not behave anything like a Synchron.


That's probably true for a number of virtual pianos. I've actually practiced that prelude on a library that behaved the same way, and believe that one gets used to the fact that one needs to avoid the lowest possible velocities on real pianos.

Not that the Imperial is perfect – the first note I tried on it yesterday the middle F#)* didn't actually ring/sustain properly with the pedal down. And I needed to increase the buffer size in order to avoid overloading the main/single core the Imperial used – and that was on the Intel Mac with the best of all Intel Mac single core benchmarks.

Having said that, there are lots of good things to say about the Vienna Imperial – and about the fact that there's a free trial of it (now)!


* ...as played eg. in Bill Brown's beautiful piece Conspiracy.


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## Zanshin (Jun 27, 2022)

Vik said:


> And I needed to increase the buffer size in order to avoid overloading the main/single core the Imperial used – and that was on the Intel Mac with the best of all Intel Mac single core benchmarks.


This is likely SSD (interface) related not CPU. My internal NVMe drive has no issues (or internal sata drives), but my USB NVMe drives need a larger buffer (even though their throughput is still very good and better than the internal sata drives). But with a larger buffer size I was playing the surround to stereo presets on all three Stage A piano's at the same time without my PC breaking a sweat.

EDIT: Derrrr, by buffer I actually meant "Preload Size" in the player settings, sorry!


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## Vik (Jun 27, 2022)

Thanks, Zanshin. My external NVMe has a read speed just over 1500 MB/s, which is what I get on the internal disk too – so I guess there would be no difference?


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## Zanshin (Jun 27, 2022)

Vik said:


> Thanks, Zanshin. My external NVMe has a read speed just over 1500 MB/s, which is what I get on the internal disk too – so I guess there would be no difference?


Wait, I am sorry, I am not talking about audio interface buffer size. I am talking about drive "Preload Size". Try changing that to something like 8192 for the pianos (in the player settings). It'll take more ram but you should be able to lower your audio interface buffer back to where it was.


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## CGR (Jun 27, 2022)

nottipiglet said:


> . . . For most grands, the una corda shifts the felt of the hammer to an area less struck and therefore more mellow… the tone changes dramatically. You need to sample the una corda for that effect… the effect is more pronounced for an older piano.


Not only the effect on tone due to a different area of the hammers striking the strings, but fewer strings are struck (1 on the double string keys and 2 on the triple string keys) due to the key action moving to the right. The real una corda samples of the Vienna Imperial feature this beautifully, and add to it's dynamic and tonal range.


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## tc9000 (Jun 27, 2022)

nottipiglet said:


> I bought the Borsendorfer 280vc because it sounds great. However, after spending some time with it, I conclude that that Synchron pianos are not suitable for advanced pianists. Most notably, it does not support silent keys. This means that if you depress the keys slowly, you will surely get a sound. This does not happen with a real piano. If you depress a real piano key slowly, you will get no sound. If you are practicing something like Chopin’s Prelude Op28/4, and you strive to get that pianissimo murmur in the left hand right… after practicing on the Synchron, you will have lots of missing notes when you move to a real piano because a real piano does not behave anything like a Synchron. Also, a Synchron does not support sympathetic resonance. That is, if you hold down notes or chords, the strings will ring via the vibrations created when you strike other notes. This is an important effect. Bach wrote pieces with sympathetic resonance in mind. If it is missing, you will never hear and feel it, and never develop a sensitivity to it. Basically, your musical growth will be stunted if you play on a Synchron piano in the long run. This is shameful, because it has a huge price tag, but it does not have basic features like sympathetic resonance or silent keys. Many people have given their feedback, but VSL has chosen to ignore this. They say it is not their priority. They are focused on sampling new instruments to drive sales. They do not care about fixing their broken piano. I would vote for Garritan or PianoTeq if you want a playable piano.


All Virtual Instruments are flawed.

We are so, so, _SO DAMN FAR _away from capturing anything even close to the real thing.

Think about it - rooms, microphones, pre-amps, A to D converters, D to A converters, amps, speakers, the clumsy tools we use - velocity, MIDI, polling rates on MIDI keyboard controllers, foot pedal technology, physical key beds, samplers.... we are so, so, SO <CLAP> DAMN <CLAP> FAR <CLAP> AWAY from reality...

And yet..

A real Bosendorfer 280VC is going to cost you hundereds of thousands of dollars. Think on that for a moment.

Realistically, the vast, VAST majority of people will likely never even _touch _a real Bosendorfer, let alone actually hear one IRL.

So here we are: You can have a digital approximation of reality for a tiny fraction of the cost of the real thing. Think how many more people can come close to owning the real thing.

And how far away are we really? How many people own a real Bosendofer but can't hear anything over 14K? How many real-world Bosendorfer owners could actually tell the difference in a fully blind test between the real thing and a good MIDI keyboard, a VI, and a decent amp and speakers?

How many people own a Bosendorfer for exclusively _decorative _purposes?

Anyways - it's good to raise the differences. You have spotted a real concern - I hope the devs will take this on board and fix this. If we don't raise these flaws, we won't ever get any closer... so keep on spotting and calling out the gaps and devs will keep trying to fill them!


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## fan455 (Jun 27, 2022)

nottipiglet said:


> Thank you. It works. It’s not perfect, but it’s good enough for me. I just need the feedback. I do not need perfection. 👍


Have you noticed if sympathetic resonance works in case of repedalling? Here's my way to test it:

Here're 3 midis (images in the attachments). Only a single middle C note at velocity 64 starting at 00:02.
- Midi1 is completely pedal-up.
- Midi2 is pedal-down from 00:01, i.e. pre-pedal.
- Midi3 is pedal-up during 00:00 to 00:03, and pedal-down from 00:03 to the end, i.e. repedal 1 second after the note is played.

I used these different settings for Synchron 280VC (mid2 mic only, master = 0db, all fx turned off):
- instrument PU: sympathetic = -inf, pedal noise = -inf, release = -inf, *and a 'flipper' plugin inserted to inverse its polarity.*
- instrument PD_a: sympathetic = -inf, pedal noise = -inf, release = -inf.
- instrument PD_b: sympathetic = 20db, pedal noise = -inf, release = -inf.
The simple flipper plugin is used to test if 2 audio signals are identical (if A - B = 0 then A = B). Loudness is measured by Cubase's loudness meter. *Pedal noise and release are turned off for they're not relevant and could affect the loudness meter.*

Tests and results:
- Test0:
PU plays midi1, true peak = -23.49db
PD_a plays midi2, true peak = -22.92db
PD_b plays midi2, true peak = -22.92db
PD_a plays midi3, true peak = -23.49db
PD_b plays midi3, true peak = -23.49db
- Test1: PU plays midi1 and PD_a plays midi2 simultaneously. True peak = -34.02db, other meters also respond.
- Test2: PU plays midi1 and PD_b plays midi2 simultaneously. True peak = -34.02db, other meters also respond.
- Test3: PU plays midi1 and PD_a plays midi3 simultaneously. No loudness values from start to end.
- Test4: PU plays midi1 and PD_b plays midi3 simultaneously. No loudness values from start to end.

Conclusion:
Repedal only holds pedal-up samples, but does not add sympathetic resonance to held notes even when 'sympathetic' is raised to 20db. If you want all-dampers-free sympathetic resonance, you need to pre-pedal.

Thoughts:
True repedal with sympathetic resonance effect makes a piano library more playable, but I can pre-pedal if I do want that sympathetic resonance. *So it doesn't really matter to me, *but might be a painful thing for those used to repedalling on real pianos. I see how tough it is to script sympathetic resonance in when repedaling, particularly when vsl sampled pedal-up and pedal-down notes but didn't sample sympathetic resonance separately (see the below link). But they do have a sympathetic resonance simulation function, why not use that for repedal?






Synchron Pianos - Which is your favourite and why?


I have them all now and they are all amazing (everything VSL does is). My personal fav is the Bosendorfer Upright.




vi-control.net





Further discussion on repedalling:






** PEARL CONCERT GRAND - Newly denoised sample set (2.4)


Pearl Concert Grand v2.1 - Now Available! PEARL Concert Grand is our flagship piano virtual instrument. Since 2015, the silky sound of a Yamaha C7 recorded in a hall with 4 mic positions has been enjoyed by thousands of composers. With version 2.1, we have completely revamped the sample set...




vi-control.net


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## nottipiglet (Jun 27, 2022)

CGR said:


> Not only the effect on tone due to a different area of the hammers striking the strings, but fewer strings are struck (1 on the double string keys and 2 on the triple string keys) due to the key action moving to the right. The real una corda samples of the Vienna Imperial feature this beautifully, and add to it's dynamic and tonal range.


Yes. Of course. I forgot to mention that fewer strings are struck. However, I think that contributes more towards the lower volume than the nature of the tone. If you play on a seasoned piano, you will notice that the una corda tone is more mellow. I think volume change is easier to implement. Change of tonal quality cannot be implemented successfully without a complete resample.


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## fan455 (Jun 27, 2022)

nottipiglet said:


> Yes. Of course. I forgot to mention that fewer strings are struck. However, I think that contributes more towards the lower volume than the nature of the tone. If you play on a seasoned piano, you will notice that the una corda tone is more mellow. I think volume change is easier to implement. Change of tonal quality cannot be implemented successfully without a complete resample.


So una corda has 3 effects?
- lower volume, for 1 less string vibrate.
- less 'detuned' (also less rich?) sound, for the 3 strings are probably not tuned completely identical.
- softer attack and tone (overtones), for the hammers hit the strings' different parts.


----------



## nottipiglet (Jun 27, 2022)

fan455 said:


> Have you noticed if sympathetic resonance works in case of repedalling? Here's my way to test it:
> 
> Here're 3 midis (images in the attachments). Only a single middle C note at velocity 64 starting at 00:02.
> - Midi1 is completely pedal-up.
> ...


Thanks for bringing it up. For my playing, I am more inclined to pay attention to the sympathetic resonance when I am finger pedaling. When I use the pedal, I hover around the half pedal point. It is like adding more or less sauce to the dish… so it is never just an on-off switch. From your description, it appears that once I use the pedal, sympathetic resonance will just disappear. Well… that’s something VSL should fix. 

That’s why I say that the Synchron piano is broken… but Synchron fans will say that I am not being fair. 😬


----------



## fan455 (Jun 27, 2022)

nottipiglet said:


> Thanks for bringing it up. For my playing, I am more inclined to pay attention to the sympathetic resonance when I am finger pedaling. When I use the pedal, I hover around the half pedal point. It is like adding more or less sauce to the dish… so it is never just an on-off switch. From your description, it appears that once I use the pedal, sympathetic resonance will just disappear. Well… that’s something VSL should fix.
> 
> That’s why I say that the Synchron piano is broken… but Synchron fans will say that I am not being fair. 😬


Yeah, so using half-pedal instead of CC64 = 127 might work...


----------



## nottipiglet (Jun 27, 2022)

fan455 said:


> So una corda has 4 effects?
> - lower volume, for 1 less strings vibrate.
> - less 'detuned' (also less rich?) sound, for the 3 strings are probably not tuned completely identical.
> - softer attack and tone (overtones), for the hammers hit the strings differently.


Yes. 😅

To me… that is the single most difficult adjustment when I move from an upright to a grand. An upright does not capture those effects. That’s why I sound like a clown when I play on my teacher’s grand. It takes time to adjust. 😂


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## thierry.ecuvillon (Jun 28, 2022)

Hello,

I have a question: I can use zero latency but I prefer to have a little latency to play the piano.

Is it because I'm used to it or does it seem right to you?
I have the feeling of realism with the latency, like the lag when you slowly press the piano key.

Do I need a psychiatrist or a hearing aid?

Thanks


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## Rudianos (Jun 28, 2022)

thierry.ecuvillon said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have a question: I can use zero latency but I prefer to have a little latency to play the piano.
> 
> ...


Aha you are cool. there is a latency when you play the piano. I wish I knew how to measure mine. But better just feel it again. So like 4-5ms?


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## thierry.ecuvillon (Jun 28, 2022)

15-20ms.
this is the time it takes for my brain to anticipate the next note by improvising  (I live near Switzerland ...so, not bad )


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## thierry.ecuvillon (Jun 28, 2022)

more seriously, I'm talking about the time it takes for the hammer to hit the strings when playing with a very soft attack.

After recess, the same attack speed on an energetic piece is problematic.

but I don't know if the question seems strange or interesting to you?

we usually want more, and some time less is better ...


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## nottipiglet (Jun 28, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Aha you are cool. there is a latency when you play the piano. I wish I knew how to measure mine. But better just feel it again. So like 4-5ms?


I read that it only becomes noticeable at around 7ms. Apparently, if you play in an ensemble, it takes around 3-4ms for your fellow musicians’ music to reach your ears. So, I am thinking… he wants something in the region of 8-10ms. Honestly, it would drive me crazy. It took me a couple of weeks of experimenting with various sound cards before I concluded that it is only playable if I get the latency down… and I need a proper audio interface. I am currently using Focusrite.


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## thierry.ecuvillon (Jun 28, 2022)

nottipiglet said:


> Honestly, it would drive me crazy.


 so i have my andwer, i need apsychiatrist


----------



## CeDur (Jun 28, 2022)

nottipiglet said:


> I read that it only becomes noticeable at around 7ms. Apparently, if you play in an ensemble, it takes around 3-4ms for your fellow musicians’ music to reach your ears. So, I am thinking… he wants something in the region of 8-10ms. Honestly, it would drive me crazy. It took me a couple of weeks of experimenting with various sound cards before I concluded that it is only playable if I get the latency down… and I need a proper audio interface. I am currently using Focusrite.


Audio interface by itself adds just a marginal latency. You need high sample rate and low buffer size (and really fast CPU to handle those settings) for low latency performance.

Real-time, measured round trip latency around 10ms is a great value.


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## Vik (Jun 28, 2022)

The good, old Pro Tools TDM systems used to have a fixed roundtrip of 105 samples, which means 2.38 ms latency at 44.1 kHz. This was used as an argument against using native systems. My current, native Logic rig has a roundtrip of 3.1 milliseconds if I can use the 32 samples buffer, but I found that I need to use the 256 buffer with the Vienna Imperial, which means 12.4 ms roundtrip – in addition to whatever latency a user would have between the speakers – if he uses any – and his ears + the whatever latency is caused by the mechanics of the physical keys he is playing on, but... nobody 'wants' 10 ms. latency.


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## nottipiglet (Jun 28, 2022)

CeDur said:


> Audio interface by itself adds just a marginal latency. You need high sample rate and low buffer size (and really fast CPU to handle those settings) for low latency performance.
> 
> Real-time, measured round trip latency around 10ms is a great value.


Audio interfaces adds very little latency because they are designed that way. I was using a good sound card (Creative X7), and the latency was unbearable even when using ASIO drivers. That’s why I bought a proper Focusrite interface. Some problems can be solved with a little bit of money. 😂

As for high sample rate and low buffer size… we need a good CPU. Again… money. 😂

10ms is not a great value. 10ms would drive me crazy.


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## keepitsimple (Jun 29, 2022)

I play on 8ms latency. My system can handle 4ms easily but i'm fine with 8. I know a buddy of mine who would NOT play on anything less than 10 ms/256 buffer with his piano libraries. His alibi is that a real acoustic *grand* does have latency between the time you hit the key until the sounds reaches back to you from the soundboard. It's rumored to equal something between 8ms and 9ms.

Anyway, i'm fine with 8 that's all what matters to me


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## Rudianos (Jul 4, 2022)

I know some Xperimenta - Piano F has been posted here ... here are the renders of Piano F all at once ... default mics, settings. Version 1.1.3 ... There are 3 main mics that can be adjusted to taste. As well as pedal key volumes ... All here are out of the box. I do enjoy the tone and the wide dynamics of this piano. Thanks for the wonderful efforts @fcangia

Chopin - Prelude, Op. 28, No. 15 "Raindrop"

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop - Piano F.mp3


Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1

View attachment Schubert Sonata - Piano F.mp3


Albeniz - Prelude (Exposition) - _Chants_ d'Espagne

View attachment Albeniz - Piano F.mp3


Waltz for Debby

View attachment Waltz for Debby - Piano F.mp3


Tracce - Ludovico Einaudi

View attachment Tracce - Piano F.mp3


Velocity Test - All Midi levels 1 to 127

View attachment Velocity Test - Piano in F.mp3



I notice a velocity drop off at 56-60 seconds. Velocity 88 - 110 abouts... Is this noticed by others? The Albeniz also ... and this is a stress test of sorts has some unexpected velocity 45 seconds and on. Might be related?


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## Vik (Jul 4, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> I notice a velocity drop off at 56-60 seconds. Velocity 88 - 110 abouts... Is this noticed by others? The Albeniz also ... and this is a stress test of sorts has some unexpected velocity 45 seconds and on. Might be related?


I just bought this library (my second major piano library so far!), and the tone is brilliant – but I agree that there's an unevenness in the dynamics. So – I recorded 127 notes, changed the time signature to 1/4, and made sure each note had unique velocity values from 1 to 127.

The screenshot below is from Logic's main window, which is simplified so isn't really detailed or always 100% truthful, but in this case it shows the velocity numbers as bar numbers (there are changes in the audio editor as well, but that editor isn't as zoomable as this one).





Both the audio and the waveforms suggest that there's something happening between velocities 88 and 92, and there are also a few other places with surprising changes happening from one velocity value to the next. The velocity drop seems to be between 93 and 112.

This company seems to be very serious about fixing bugs, so I guess we'll see be a repair soon!


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## Rudianos (Jul 4, 2022)

Vik said:


> I just bought this library (my second major piano library so far!), and the tone is brilliant – but I agree that there's an unevenness in the dynamics.


Thanks for the follow up here. Looking forward to helping the dev in any way. Such a beautiful piano.


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## STMICHAELS (Jul 4, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1
> 
> IS - Pearl Concert Grand - Close Mic
> 
> ...


Wow I have heard the Pearl Grand in other Demos, and it sounds good. However, this Demo sounds like there is something wrong with it.
Like an uneven muffled tone and then jumps to a clear tone then muffles again.... Pearl sounds better than this doesn't it something weird. Listen to Close Mic for example. Are there issues with Pearl that your'e aware of? Does not sound good at all...


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## Rudianos (Jul 4, 2022)

STMICHAELS said:


> Wow I have heard the Pearl Grand in other Demos, and it sounds good. However, this Demo sounds like there is something wrong with it.
> Like an uneven muffled tone and then jumps to a clear tone then muffles again.... Pearl sounds better than this doesn't it something weird. Listen to Close Mic for example. Are there issues with Pearl that your'e aware of? Does not sound good at all...


That is the sound with those MIDI on the individual mics default everything. Page 18 has some Chopin renders with some other mic mixes and I think @fan455 has this piano down. https://vi-control.net/community/threads/ultimate-piano-comparison-thread.115615/post-5103419

Nothing too wrong with this piano... just a piano that needs a combo of mics and a little fine tweaking to dial in the tone in the demos. Nonetheless if one does not dial it in ... they can expect the same in the post you listened too. Personally I have not been a huge fan of playing this one. There is a lack of clarity in attack on this one no matter how much I push it and if it becomes too strong then well it missed the point LOL ... its seems more of a laid back sort of piano. Warm. Nice highs lows... Mids ehhh ... ? It would be a piano I would paint with in certain special moments of a score. There is a unique tone. But as a solo sit down and pretend I am playing a grand? Ehhh ... ?

Gamma has some opinion


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## SupremeFist (Jul 5, 2022)

Vik said:


> I just bought this library (my second major piano library so far!), and the tone is brilliant – but I agree that there's an unevenness in the dynamics. So – I recorded 127 notes, changed the time signature to 1/4, and made sure each note had unique velocity values from 1 to 127.
> 
> The screenshot below is from Logic's main window, which is simplified so isn't really detailed or always 100% truthful, but in this case it shows the velocity numbers as bar numbers (there are changes in the audio editor as well, but that editor isn't as zoomable as this one).
> 
> ...


cc @fcangia


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## ashtonmorgan (Jul 7, 2022)

Very excited to join the party here. Gone through 15 pages so far.

If I remember correctly it was asked if someone could upload Imperfect Samples Fazioli Extreme audios. Has this been done yet? I can do it, if so. Definitely have some libraries to contribute.


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## Rudianos (Jul 7, 2022)

ashtonmorgan said:


> Very excited to join the party here. Gone through 15 pages so far.
> 
> If I remember correctly it was asked if someone could upload Imperfect Samples Fazioli Extreme audios. Has this been done yet? I can do it, if so. Definitely have some libraries to contribute.


I don't think we have that one, very curious about it. That would be most welcome.

Here is page with much of the MIDI here. Feel free to post your own MIDI too and we can expand.






Ultimate Piano Comparison Thread


If you send me the midi I can put in on some pianos I got such as Sonivox 88 which is amazing to me, sampletekk BG, some other ik pianos etc




vi-control.net





Welcome again and thanks!


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## fan455 (Jul 7, 2022)

I was lucky enough to play real U1 and C2X pianos in a Yamaha store a few days ago and... have to say that most sampled pianos, whose source pianos are probably much more expensive than these two, recorded with those precious mics, are so much drier compared to the sounds I heard in my experience this time, and realized adding reverb effect to dry sampled piano sounds often sucks... Even using Synchron pianos, said to be quite reverby, I found it's impossible for me to abandon the far mics otherwise the sound is still unacceptable particularly when played in loud volume. But I recorded the real pianos from my seating perspective (I suppose it's rather close), just using my cellphone (low quality recording...), and the feel of space was already very enough...


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## fan455 (Jul 7, 2022)

Supplementary Materials


In this page, you can find audio samples of performances synthesized by our DDSP-based piano synthesizer.



renault.gitlab-pages.ircam.fr





In this comparison, I found pianoteq less realistic than the ddsp algorithm synthized piano sound (which lacks some transient), probably for the lack of ambience.


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## ashtonmorgan (Jul 9, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> I don't think we have that one, very curious about it. That would be most welcome.
> 
> Here is page with much of the MIDI here. Feel free to post your own MIDI too and we can expand.
> 
> ...


I ended up going through the rest of the pages and it's not posted yet 😮 so I'll do that here! Thanks for the welcome, and I'll contribute a short midi soon for sure. I tried finding the 127 velocity test midi but couldn't find it, can you link me to that?

Onto the Fazioli:

_1. I've opted to (not yet) reveal which mic perspectives are used! I feel we may often internalize/develop rules of what should be rather than unbiasedly using our ears.
2. A splash of reverb is used in each track.
3. I will upload each of the individual microphone perspectives without reverb in a bit._

*Bill Evans - Waltz for Debby*

Imperfect Samples - Fazioli (Extreme) - Piano Mix 1

View attachment Imperfect Samples - Fazioli (Extreme) - Piano Mix 1.mp3


(Piano Mix 1 No Reverb)

View attachment Imperfect Samples - Fazioli (Extreme) - Piano Mix 1 (No Reverb).mp3


Imperfect Samples - Fazioli (Extreme) - Piano Mix 2

View attachment Imperfect Samples - Fazioli (Extreme) - Piano Mix 2.mp3


(Piano Mix 2 No Reverb)

View attachment Imperfect Samples - Fazioli (Extreme) - Piano Mix 2 (No Reverb).mp3


Imperfect Samples - Fazioli (Extreme) - Piano Mix 3

View attachment Imperfect Samples - Fazioli (Extreme) - Piano Mix 3.mp3


(Piano Mix 3 No Reverb)

View attachment Imperfect Samples - Fazioli (Extreme) - Piano Mix 3 (No Reverb).mp3



Of course, as mentioned before, there's the issue that midi files are created via a specific source/library that has its own unique distribution of dynamic layers across the 1-127 velocity range. The Fazioli library does not have a built-in velocity curve editor, so with my DAW I slightly scaled the velocity layers of the midi file to be more tailored to the dynamic layers of _this_ specific library:

Imperfect Samples - Fazioli (Extreme) - Piano Mix 4 (Scaled Dynamics)

View attachment Imperfect Samples - Fazioli (Extreme) - Piano Mix 4 (Scaled Dynamics).mp3


You may like this more or less, but I wanted to put the audio options out there.

It's a gorgeous, gorgeous library, but if anyone purchases this definitely expect some flaws. For example, when combining microphones you often times hear the hammers hit the strings at different timings because the waveforms were not aligned by the developer. An example of this can be heard when playing note F3 between velocities 95-102 (sample "layer20#44.wav") and can be seen throughout the keyboard at similarly high velocities.

I reached out to Matt of IS the other day regarding this, hopefully, he gets back to me and is interested in creating a fix. Customer support has been reported to be hit or miss with IS, unfortunately, so my hopes aren't high. It's something to keep in mind as a customer.


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## Rudianos (Jul 9, 2022)

ashtonmorgan said:


> I ended up going through the rest of the pages and it's not posted yet 😮 so I'll do that here! Thanks for the welcome, and I'll contribute a short midi soon for sure. I tried finding the 127 velocity test midi but couldn't find it, can you link me to that?


Thank you! We'll have some listening to do when I get home here's the link to the velocity

Post in thread 'Ultimate Piano Comparison Thread' https://vi-control.net/community/threads/ultimate-piano-comparison-thread.115615/post-4938327


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## ashtonmorgan (Jul 9, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Thank you! We'll have some listening to do when I get home here's the link to the velocity
> 
> Post in thread 'Ultimate Piano Comparison Thread' https://vi-control.net/community/threads/ultimate-piano-comparison-thread.115615/post-4938327


You're welcome! Edited my post and added non-reverb audios for each track, too.

And thanks for that, I'll add the velocity layer test for each mic perspective when I upload those.


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## Valérie_D (Aug 1, 2022)

So far I have the Hammersmith piano, Ivory II and piano in blue. Anyone has Pianoteq?
I'm looking for a piano that is well defined but not too crystal clear at the same time, thank you for your input!
Val


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## SupremeFist (Aug 1, 2022)

Valérie_D said:


> I'm looking for a piano that is well defined but not too crystal clear at the same time, thank you for your input!
> Val


Xperimenta Due, Embertone Walker, maybe VSL Bösendorfer Upright.


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## b_elliott (Aug 1, 2022)

ashtonmorgan said:


> I ended up going through the rest of the pages and it's not posted yet 😮 so I'll do that here! Thanks for the welcome, and I'll contribute a short midi soon for sure. I tried finding the 127 velocity test midi but couldn't find it, can you link me to that?
> 
> Onto the Fazioli:
> 
> ...


Without ruining the flow of this thread, I am curious about the noise at the 5 sec point on each of your tracks. This additive is not in Rudianos _Waltz for Debby_ example. 
Don't mind me if it was earlier covered. Cheers, Bill


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## Rudianos (Aug 1, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> Without ruining the flow of this thread, I am curious about the noise at the 5 sec point on each of your tracks. This additive is not in Rudianos _Waltz for Debby_ example.
> Don't mind me if it was earlier covered. Cheers, Bill


def a pedal thunk. the volume of that might be able to get lowered in the UI?


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## srodrigo (Aug 1, 2022)

Valérie_D said:


> Anyone has Pianoteq?


I'm considering getting it for music production, but I haven't made my mind up yet, and I'm new to this anyway. You can try the Standard version for free if you haven't yet. The Pro one is 20% off right now.


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## chopin4525 (Aug 1, 2022)

srodrigo said:


> I'm considering getting it for music production, but I haven't made my mind up yet, and I'm new to this anyway. You can try the Standard version for free if you haven't yet. The Pro one is 20% off right now.


Instruments packs as well -20%. Untill 15th of August.


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## ashtonmorgan (Aug 26, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> Without ruining the flow of this thread, I am curious about the noise at the 5 sec point on each of your tracks. This additive is not in Rudianos _Waltz for Debby_ example.
> Don't mind me if it was earlier covered. Cheers, Bill


Oop, I had no idea anyone replied to this thread. As Rudianos said that was indeed a pedal thump.


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## ashtonmorgan (Aug 26, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> def a pedal thunk. the volume of that might be able to get lowered in the UI?


This is the downfall of the IS Fazioli library, it cannot be altered whatsoever. The first IS library that allowed users to alter any sort of noise was the Steinway library.

Even with those noises, I still love the sound that the library can create, but with Matt of IS being unwilling to fix the alignment issues of its wav samples, it's hard to recommend at its price.


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## Steve_Karl (Aug 30, 2022)

Valérie_D said:


> So far I have the Hammersmith piano, Ivory II and piano in blue. Anyone has Pianoteq?
> I'm looking for a piano that is well defined but not too crystal clear at the same time, thank you for your input!
> Val


Yes. I've been using PianoTeq Stage for years now. It's usually my go-to piano.
The EQ in the interface can shape it just the way I need for any sound it seems.
If not wanting too much "crystal clear" I just pull the highs down in the EQ and also shape the velocity range to keep me in the low velocities.


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## Rafa Ferreira (Oct 7, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Wonderful submissions - such a lovely selection of pianos and FX. We are all learning from this... BTW if anyone has a good jazz and rock MIDI - or can record one - please post them. We can widen out styles on these lovely pianos.


I am currently rehearsing a couple of pieces from Kapustin. I will gladly share with you a MIDI as long as I play them with few errors (and may the inspiration catch me while recording). I am currently live-playing VSL Yamaha full with 6 or 7 mics, personal preset tweaking the Concert preset, and very happy so far. Achieving more realistic results would seriously impress me! Just landed here today so I'll be back next time. Regards.


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## Rudianos (Oct 7, 2022)

Rafa Ferreira said:


> I am currently rehearsing a couple of pieces from Kapustin. I will gladly share with you a MIDI as long as I play them with few errors (and may the inspiration catch me while recording). I am currently live-playing VSL Yamaha full with 6 or 7 mics, personal preset tweaking the Concert preset, and very happy so far. Achieving more realistic results would seriously impress me! Just landed here today so I'll be back next time. Regards.


Wonderful. Looking forward to it!


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## Simon Passmore (Oct 10, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Schubert - Sonata in A Major, Op. 120, D. 664, Mvmt. 1
> 
> NI - Noire - Pure - Basic Preset
> 
> ...


Hmm, I was convinced Noire was the best piano VST but after hearing that I'm not so sure. Is there a felt version or something?


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## Rudianos (Oct 10, 2022)

Simon Passmore said:


> Hmm, I was convinced Noire was the best piano VST but after hearing that I'm not so sure. Is there a felt version or something?


Good question. There is a Felt option but this is Pure Noire out of the box Basic and Vibrant preset. It is a softer piano. It can be made to be a bit more present ... messing with Dynamic and Tonal knobs. But IMO this piano always holds back from say Vienna Imperial or Synchron CFX.


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## Simon Passmore (Oct 10, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Good question. There is a Felt option but this is Pure Noire out of the box Basic and Vibrant preset. It is a softer piano. It can be made to be a bit more present ... messing with Dynamic and Tonal knobs. But IMO this piano always holds back from say Vienna Imperial or Synchron CFX.


Ah, hadn't heard of either of those! Have you got a CSP version yet? I've got the midi & can whip one up quickly if not


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## Rudianos (Oct 10, 2022)

Simon Passmore said:


> Ah, hadn't heard of either of those! Have you got a CSP version yet? I've got the midi & can whip one up quickly if not


You know I don't think that one has been posted here interestingly enough. I would very much welcome seeing that here and representing!

Yeah listen to the Vienna Imperial that's a nice present sound. I believe it has the most dynamic layers of any sampled piano. It's temporarily not for sale as vsl ports it to Synchron Player.

My favorite cfx is Yamaha CFX Synchron VSL. With ribbon microphones on the full version it is a match made in heaven. All the kind warmth of Noire but it still allows you to go full stick.

Noire I think has a great effects particle engine which makes it a very unique artistic tool.


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## Simon Passmore (Oct 10, 2022)

Cinematic Studio Piano

View attachment Chopin - Cinematic Studio Piano.mp3



Old Black Grand (_Acoustic Samples_)

View attachment Chopin - Old Black Grand.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 10, 2022)

Simon Passmore said:


> Cinematic Studio Piano
> 
> View attachment Chopin - Cinematic Studio Piano.mp3
> 
> ...


Very nice I like them both a lot! Two very distinct flavors of piano. CSB gets up there in the loud parts, I like. What model did they sample?


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## Simon Passmore (Oct 10, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Very nice I like them both a lot! Two very distinct flavors of piano. CSB gets up there in the loud parts, I like. What model did they sample?


I think CSP is a Steinway D. But Old Black Grand is a Pleyel!... Perfect for the Chopin 
Side note, I've played some Chopin on a piano in his own house, in the room he was born in


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## Vik (Oct 10, 2022)

Simon Passmore said:


> Cinematic Studio Piano
> 
> your_browser_is_not_able_to_play_this_audio


That was very loud! Is it this one?


Edit:

"...if you purchase Cinematic Studio Strings, Brass or Woodwinds you are automatically given the option to bundle Cinematic Studio Piano for half price ($34.50) in the same transaction. If you own other Studio Series libraries then the loyalty price for CSP later (if not bundled) is US$48."






Cinematic Studio Piano – Cinematic Studio Series







cinematicstudioseries.com


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## Simon Passmore (Oct 10, 2022)

Vik said:


> That was very loud! Is it this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ha, yes, sorry I added gain to it, it sounded really quiet in my DAW :/

Yep it's Cinematic Studio Series, you get it really cheap with any of their instruments I think


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## Rafa Ferreira (Oct 11, 2022)

nottipiglet said:


> I bought the Borsendorfer 280vc because it sounds great. However, after spending some time with it, I conclude that that Synchron pianos are not suitable for advanced pianists. Most notably, it does not support silent keys. This means that if you depress the keys slowly, you will surely get a sound. This does not happen with a real piano. If you depress a real piano key slowly, you will get no sound. If you are practicing something like Chopin’s Prelude Op28/4, and you strive to get that pianissimo murmur in the left hand right… after practicing on the Synchron, you will have lots of missing notes when you move to a real piano because a real piano does not behave anything like a Synchron. Also, a Synchron does not support sympathetic resonance. That is, if you hold down notes or chords, the strings will ring via the vibrations created when you strike other notes. This is an important effect. Bach wrote pieces with sympathetic resonance in mind. If it is missing, you will never hear and feel it, and never develop a sensitivity to it. Basically, your musical growth will be stunted if you play on a Synchron piano in the long run. This is shameful, because it has a huge price tag, but it does not have basic features like sympathetic resonance or silent keys. Many people have given their feedback, but VSL has chosen to ignore this. They say it is not their priority. They are focused on sampling new instruments to drive sales. They do not care about fixing their broken piano. I would vote for Garritan or PianoTeq if you want a playable piano.


I get your point, and as a classical pianist for many years, my only suggestion is this (regarding VSL): invest some time in tweaking the velocity curve. You might find the way to do the trick for your needed silent notes. It's not an issue for me, but I will think about it and let you know.


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## Rafa Ferreira (Oct 11, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Aha you are cool. there is a latency when you play the piano. I wish I knew how to measure mine. But better just feel it again. So like 4-5ms?


I use reaper to measure it. It says 3-5ms for me and I find it OK. But I guess Reaper doesn't tell you the end-to-end latency since if you have more devices after the PC then that would be a low proxy.


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## Rafa Ferreira (Oct 11, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Thanks for the new MIDI - here are 5 pianos - can certainly make more on request.
> 
> Chopin Ballade No.4 op.52 from @fan455
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if I'm downloading the exactly same version but I just donwloaded the Ballade no.4 from the MAESTRO database, which I guess it's the same @fan455 used. I will post some VSL Yamaha CFX renders, a few standard/full presets and other that are my own tweaks. I hope you like it.


----------



## Rafa Ferreira (Oct 11, 2022)

Well, here are my renders:
*VSL Synchron Pianos - Yamaha CFX (full).*
Chopin, Ballade no. 4. (source: MAESTRO database).

This time, I've chosen a subset of "Surround to Stereo Downmix" presets, most of which get the most of the "full" mics. Rendered @192kbps because of storage limit. Keep in mind that pedal noise is "as is" in the selected subset. So here we go:

- Concert Sur to Stereo
View attachment Ballade_04_Chopin_VSL_CFX_Concert_Sur_to_Stereo.mp3


- Intimate Sur to Stereo
View attachment Ballade_04_Chopin_VSL_CFX_Intimate_Sur_to_Stereo.mp3


- Player Sur to Stereo
View attachment Ballade_04_Chopin_VSL_CFX_Player_Sur_to_Stereo.mp3


- Ambience Sur to Stereo
View attachment Ballade_04_Chopin_VSL_CFX_Ambience_Sur_to_Stereo.mp3


- "Rafa Ferreira" preset. Which is based on "Ambience", adding every mic (balancing higher levels for the "full" mics), decreasing all delays in amient mics (kind of cranking down the room size), adding 5% body resonance and +5db Sympathetic Resonance, substracting -10db for pedal noise (no surprise here). Also, I have loaded a personal velocity curve which softens the "fortissimo". I hope you like it.
View attachment Ballade_04_Chopin_VSL_CFX_Rafa_Ferreira.mp3


PS: After carefully comparing previous renders in this thread (
Post in thread 'Ultimate Piano Comparison Thread'
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/ultimate-piano-comparison-thread.115615/post-5044990) I'm blown away, again, by the quality of VSL samples.

PS2: I just realized that I don't really like my own tweaked preset. It blurs a lot of detail. I will work on improving it.


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## Rudianos (Oct 20, 2022)

Special thanks to @StraightAheadSamples for providing this FREE Kontakt Player Library. This is a multi mic option of 1903 Chickering Grand. Pedal Verb and Mic Levels can easily be adjusted. Stock Presets.

Waltz for Debbie

Default Stereo

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos - STraight Ahead Samples - Waltz for Debby - Default.mp3


Charlie Brown Mono

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos - STraight Ahead Samples - Waltz for Debby - Charlin Brown Mono.mp3


Lo Fi

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos - STraight Ahead Samples - Waltz for Debby - Lo Fi.mp3


Balls of Fire

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos - STraight Ahead Samples - Waltz for Debby - Baslls of Fire.mp3


Post Pop

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos - STraight Ahead Samples - Waltz for Debby - Post Bop.mp3


Ethereal

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos - STraight Ahead Samples - Waltz for Debby - Ethereal.mp3


Tapes Only (Mono and Room) (Only non stock preset)

View attachment Multi - Master Piano Demos - STraight Ahead Samples - Waltz for Debby - Tapes.mp3


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## chapbot (Oct 20, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> You know I don't think that one has been posted here interestingly enough. I would very much welcome seeing that here and representing!
> 
> Yeah listen to the Vienna Imperial that's a nice present sound. I believe it has the most dynamic layers of any sampled piano. It's temporarily not for sale as vsl ports it to Synchron Player.
> 
> ...


Vienna Imperial just went up for sale again yesterday and I purchased it, works with iLok now!


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## Rudianos (Oct 20, 2022)

chapbot said:


> Vienna Imperial just went up for sale again yesterday and I purchased it, works with iLok now!


I noticed that! And a VST 3 version at last. Bigger UI too!


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## Rudianos (Oct 20, 2022)

chapbot said:


> Vienna Imperial just went up for sale again yesterday and I purchased it, works with iLok now!


Let me know what you think of it


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## slobajudge (Oct 20, 2022)

chapbot said:


> Vienna Imperial just went up for sale again yesterday and I purchased it, works with iLok now!


I still think that piano is richer in sound than these new VSL grand pianos. Playability is identical. The lack of a half-pedal is almost not felt, but that's why it has soft samples.


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## poly6 (Oct 21, 2022)

Not sure where to put this, so I'll put it here. Audio Plugin Deals just added their latest deal: Skybox Audio's Hammers + Waves: Acoustic for $74.99 (60% off the full $189 price). It includes their Modern Grand (Yamaha C6), UX Upright and Relic Upright (1890 Schaff Brothers). I think that's the best price for it ever. 

Hammers + Waves - Acoustic by Skybox Audio - Audio Plugin Deals


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## Rudianos (Oct 21, 2022)

poly6 said:


> Not sure where to put this, so I'll put it here. Audio Plugin Deals just added their latest deal: Skybox Audio's Hammers + Waves: Acoustic for $74.99 (60% off the full $189 price). It includes their Modern Grand (Yamaha C6), UX Upright and Relic Upright (1890 Schaff Brothers). I think that's the best price for it ever.
> 
> Hammers + Waves - Acoustic by Skybox Audio - Audio Plugin Deals


Thanks I have been considering those since I got their new Wurli


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## filipjonathan (Oct 21, 2022)

poly6 said:


> Not sure where to put this, so I'll put it here. Audio Plugin Deals just added their latest deal: Skybox Audio's Hammers + Waves: Acoustic for $74.99 (60% off the full $189 price). It includes their Modern Grand (Yamaha C6), UX Upright and Relic Upright (1890 Schaff Brothers). I think that's the best price for it ever.
> 
> Hammers + Waves - Acoustic by Skybox Audio - Audio Plugin Deals


Yep, I'm trying to find out more from the users but weirdly, there aren't many comments on them. Not sure why. 🤔


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## Rudianos (Oct 24, 2022)

Here is some Arturia - Augmented Grand Piano - there are hundreds of radically different presets. Here is just a few dark Einaudi kinds of things. This was $29 and have to respect Arturia's existing customer cross grading.

Tracce

Stratus Grand

View attachment Tracce - Arturia Augmented Stratus Grand.mp3


Abdict

View attachment Tracce - Arturia Augmented Abdict.mp3


Bells to Ascend

View attachment Tracce - Arturia Augmented Bells to Ashes.mp3


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## poly6 (Oct 24, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Here is some Arturia - Augmented Grand Piano - there are hundreds of radically different presets. Here is just a few dark Einaudi kinds of things. This was $29 and have to respect Arturia's existing customer cross grading.
> 
> Tracce
> 
> ...


Strange note cut offs every once in a while, like something is cutting off the sound on note release.


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## Rudianos (Oct 24, 2022)

poly6 said:


> Strange note cut offs every once in a while, like something is cutting off the sound on note release.


Its true. Will dig into why TY


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## moon (Oct 24, 2022)

Hammers + Waves - Waltz for Debby

Grand
View attachment HW Grand Waltz.mp3


UX Upright
View attachment HW UX Waltz.mp3


Relic Upright
View attachment HW Relic Waltz.mp3


I have the full Hammers + Waves line if you'd like to hear anything else.


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## Rudianos (Oct 24, 2022)

moon said:


> Hammers + Waves - Waltz for Debby
> 
> Grand
> View attachment HW Grand Waltz.mp3
> ...


Wow all three of those are really tight and all the sound design for $74 it's going to be hard to pass up


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## sostenuto (Oct 24, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Wow all three of those are really tight and all the sound design for $74 it's going to be hard to pass up


Agree, yet Grand shows its fullness, contrast ~~0.40 + ..... Lotsa GAS to add at $74. !


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## CeDur (Oct 25, 2022)

slobajudge said:


> I still think that piano is richer in sound than these new VSL grand pianos. Playability is identical. The lack of a half-pedal is almost not felt, but that's why it has soft samples.


It seems even VSL values older Vienna Imperial more than new Synchron Pianos, since it's more expensive. 

Btw do you have any examples of that instrument in more contemporary, non-classical repertoire?


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## CGR (Oct 25, 2022)

CeDur said:


> It seems even VSL values older Vienna Imperial more than new Synchron Pianos, since it's more expensive.
> 
> Btw do you have any examples of that instrument in more contemporary, non-classical repertoire?


"Modern" demos here (scroll down):






VIENNA IMPERIAL - Vienna Symphonic Library


The Vienna Imperial virtual grand piano is a class of its own. The venerable Bösendorfer Imperial 290-755, equipped with CEUS technology, allowed for most precise and extensive piano sample recordings with up to 100 velocities per note.




www.vsl.co.at


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## chopin4525 (Oct 25, 2022)

slobajudge said:


> I still think that piano is richer in sound than these new VSL grand pianos. Playability is identical. The lack of a half-pedal is almost not felt, but that's why it has soft samples.


It also really good considering some samples are stretched. Just listening to the wonderful resonances in my favourite demo of this instrument "In a sentimental mood"...😍


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## slobajudge (Oct 25, 2022)

CeDur said:


> It seems even VSL values older Vienna Imperial more than new Synchron Pianos, since it's more expensive.
> 
> Btw do you have any examples of that instrument in more contemporary, non-classical repertoire?


Unfortunately no, I mostly play classical, but there is a little something on the VSL site. Although the piano is still on par with the best, I think the price is too high, but for lovers of the Bosendorfer piano brand, I think this is the best they can get if they really want to feel its specific tone. Earlier there were remarks that certain notes are out of tune, but I don't mind. For all those who are looking for a more realistic comparison in relation to an acoustic piano, I usually point out the following link that I also posted on the piano world forum. I really (very) like this version of this song, but the sound character of this Bosendorfer piano is very similar to what you get from the Vienna Imperial.


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## chopin4525 (Oct 25, 2022)

slobajudge said:


> Unfortunately no, I mostly play classical, but there is a little something on the VSL site. Although the piano is still on par with the best, I think the price is too high, but for lovers of the Bosendorfer piano brand, I think this is the best they can get if they really want to feel its specific tone. Earlier there were remarks that certain notes are out of tune, but I don't mind. For all those who are looking for a more realistic comparison in relation to an acoustic piano, I usually point out the following link that I also posted on the piano world forum. I really (very) like this version of this song, but the sound character of this Bosendorfer piano is very similar to what you get from the Vienna Imperial.



We're subscribed to the same YT channels. Stop stalking me...


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## slobajudge (Oct 25, 2022)

chopin4525 said:


> We're subscribed to the same YT channels. Stop stalking me...


Yeah, and I thought you couldn't see me...


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## CeDur (Oct 25, 2022)

slobajudge said:


> Unfortunately no, I mostly play classical, but there is a little something on the VSL site. Although the piano is still on par with the best, I think the price is too high, but for lovers of the Bosendorfer piano brand, I think this is the best they can get if they really want to feel its specific tone. Earlier there were remarks that certain notes are out of tune, but I don't mind. For all those who are looking for a more realistic comparison in relation to an acoustic piano, I usually point out the following link that I also posted on the piano world forum. I really (very) like this version of this song, but the sound character of this Bosendorfer piano is very similar to what you get from the Vienna Imperial.



What a great piece of music it is. I think I'll buy the notes.

Regarding 'out of tune' notes I used to slightly detune some of the notes on my virtual pianos for them to sound more realistic. I wish more libraries had 'condition' slider like Pianoteq.


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## slobajudge (Oct 25, 2022)

CeDur said:


> What a great piece of music it is. I think I'll buy the notes.
> 
> Regarding 'out of tune' notes I used to slightly detune some of the notes on my virtual pianos for them to sound more realistic. I wish more libraries had 'condition' slider like Pianoteq.


Yes, I bought them too because I haven't heard a better arrangement than that. I can send it to you if you want. As for the piano, some users once complained about certain notes, but VSL replied that the piano is properly tuned and that this is simply part of its character and charm.


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## jon wayne (Oct 25, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> Yep, I'm trying to find out more from the users but weirdly, there aren't many comments on them. Not sure why. 🤔


The Modern Grand is an excellent piano. Lots of velocity layers, super clean samples and a bunch of modulation effects if you need them.


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## filipjonathan (Oct 25, 2022)

jon wayne said:


> The Modern Grand is an excellent piano. Lots of velocity layers, super clean samples and a bunch of modulation effects if you need them.


I actually got the acoustic bundle a few days ago. Loving it!


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## CGR (Oct 25, 2022)

CeDur said:


> It seems even VSL values older Vienna Imperial more than new Synchron Pianos, since it's more expensive.
> 
> Btw do you have any examples of that instrument in more contemporary, non-classical repertoire?


Here's the Vienna Imperial Player perspective, with an excerpt from West Side Story. I played it from memory in one go, so excuse the hesitant performance, but it gives you an idea in a non-classical context:
View attachment Vienna Imperial Player - West Side Story excerpt_01.mp3


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## Pantonal (Oct 26, 2022)

I recently purchased a Kawai digital piano (CA49) and it has a Shigeru Concert Grand sample set in it. Sadly, it doesn't sound very good compared to almost any quality piano sample library I own. Is anyone aware of a Shigeru Kawai Concert Grand piano library? The actual Shigerus I've played have all been marvelous instruments. I have especially find memories of the SK6 and SK7, but I haven't played one of their concert grands.


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## smellypants (Oct 26, 2022)

CeDur said:


> It seems even VSL values older Vienna Imperial more than new Synchron Pianos, since it's more expensive.


Vienna Imperial costs 295 euros.

2 of the Synchron pianos cost 290 euros. The other 5 cost more.


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 26, 2022)

Pantonal said:


> I recently purchased a Kawai digital piano (CA49) and it has a Shigeru Concert Grand sample set in it. Sadly, it doesn't sound very good compared to almost any quality piano sample library I own. Is anyone aware of a Shigeru Kawai Concert Grand piano library? The actual Shigerus I've played have all been marvelous instruments. I have especially find memories of the SK6 and SK7, but I haven't played one of their concert grands.


There isn't one at the moment. I've been looking for one for ages. Only Kawai's sampled I know of are the AcousticSamples Kawai-EX Pro, Soundiron Emotional Piano and Production Voices Estate Grand. I don't think these are what you're looking for. I tend to like Kawais own samples more.


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 26, 2022)

@Rudianos maybe this is a lot to ask, but could you maybe attach all the MIDI files in this thread to the first post and update it when new MIDI files are used? I'm having a hard time finding all of them and I can imagine people who want to chime in have the same issue.


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 27, 2022)

I don't like the whole augmented thing as far as pianos go, but after reading some comments from @CGR about UVI's Augmented Piano I gave the non-augmented patch a go and I have to say, it sounds lovely. It doesn't work that well on Albeniz, but I like it on the others.

I rendered a few of the pieces with it, "Default Normal" patch which uses a single stereo ribbon mic and dialed in 10% "Music hall" IR.

Albeniz

View attachment UVI AugP Albeniz.mp3


Chopin

View attachment UVI AugP Chopin.mp3


Shubert

View attachment UVI AugP Shubert.mp3


Waltz

View attachment UVI AugP Waltz for Debby.mp3


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## CeDur (Oct 27, 2022)

smellypants said:


> Vienna Imperial costs 295 euros.
> 
> 2 of the Synchron pianos cost 290 euros. The other 5 cost more.


I was talking about 'Standard' versions, IMO more comparable to Vienna Imperial (it has 3 mic perspectives).


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## smellypants (Oct 27, 2022)

CeDur said:


> I was talking about 'Standard' versions, IMO more comparable to Vienna Imperial (it has 3 mic perspectives).


Ah gotcha 👍


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## CGR (Oct 27, 2022)

Pantonal said:


> I recently purchased a Kawai digital piano (CA49) and it has a Shigeru Concert Grand sample set in it. Sadly, it doesn't sound very good compared to almost any quality piano sample library I own. Is anyone aware of a Shigeru Kawai Concert Grand piano library? The actual Shigerus I've played have all been marvelous instruments. I have especially find memories of the SK6 and SK7, but I haven't played one of their concert grands.


There was another Kawai grand sampled piano on the market, but it's no longer available – a Kawai RX-6 Semi-Concert Grand Piano (Kawai's answer to Yamaha's C6) from Michael Picher. It was part of a Kawai Grand and Kawai Upright piano package called 'The Basilica Pianos':









The Basilica Pianos [SFZ Sample Library]


The Basilica Pianos is a high quality, but affordable sample library bundle, that features both a grand piano and an upright piano, painstakingly sampled by hand. This bundle also includes separate effects samples, such as scrapes and strums on the g...




www.michaelpichermusic.com





A very natural, "present" sounding sampled piano, and although only 6 velocity layers, has separate sustain pedal up and down samples, and release samples. Runs in the free Sforzando player with a bare bones GUI. Here's my first test play with it from 2018:

View attachment Basilica Grand Kawai RX-5 TEST_01.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 27, 2022)

Here is a renewal of MIDI access. I cannot even find the MIDI here anymore!


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## Pantonal (Oct 27, 2022)

CGR said:


> There was another Kawai grand sampled piano on the market, but it's no longer available – a Kawai RX-6 Semi-Concert Grand Piano (Kawai's answer to Yamaha's C6) from Michael Picher. It was part of a Kawai Grand and Kawai Upright piano package called 'The Basilica Pianos':
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reminder, I own the Basilica Pianos. Maybe I should play around with them a bit.


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## Rudianos (Oct 27, 2022)

Some Orchestral Tools Pianos I forgot I had...

Chopin Raindrop

Ratio Piano

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop Ratio.mp3


Ark 2 - Roon

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop Ark 2 Roon.mp3


Waltz for Debby

Ratio Piano

View attachment Debby Ratio.mp3


Albeniz Chants

Ark 3

View attachment Albeniz - Chants - Ark 3.mp3


Ratio

View attachment Albeniz - Chants - Ratio.mp3


Ark 1 - Drake

View attachment Albeniz - Chants - Drake.mp3


Ark 2 - Roon

View attachment Albeniz - Chants - Roon.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 27, 2022)

Albeniz Chants

Ark 2 - Glamer Pianos - a3 - 3 Steinways are better than one?

View attachment Albeniz - Chants - Glamer.mp3


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## Windbag (Oct 28, 2022)

i'll throw one in here just because as frequently as it is mentioned that Pianoteq is heavily customizable, most of the demos I hear are bone stock and a bit sterile for my tastes (someone mentioned the condition slider earlier - I find this essential to providing realism and character), and because it's an evolutionary instrument that improves with every update. 

I'm pleasantly surprised how delicately this performance rendered on my own custom model (a hybrid of the NY and Hamburg Steinway models) which is NOT a specialty soft patch for me - it's my go-to all-rounder piano even when I need to pound on it. Wet mix (essentially my template) because dry modeled instruments are so unrealistically dry that it's a bit off-putting 

Chopin / Pianoteq custom hybrid Steinway: 

View attachment Pianoteq_HybStwy_Chopin.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 29, 2022)

Ended up snagging this one from Orchestral Tools - got the Kontakt version. There are moments of this I really dig.

Albeniz - Chants

Bosendorfer Stacattos

View attachment Albeniz - Chants - Bosendorfer Shorts.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 30, 2022)

Yes I did get that APD sale - especially because of all the cool FX options! And I needed a 3rd U3/x lol ... and yes there are bundle crossgrades for future additions ... add full bundle in cart and remove the accoustic. Voila.

Anyways all defaults all the way around.

Skybox Audio - Hammers and Waves

Albeniz - Chants

Grand

View attachment Albeniz - Chants - Hammers Grand.mp3


Relic

View attachment Albeniz - Chants - Hammers Relic.mp3


UX Modem

View attachment Albeniz - Chants - Hammers UX.mp3


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## Rudianos (Oct 30, 2022)

Chopin Raindrop

Grand

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop Grand.mp3


Relic

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop Relic.mp3


UX

View attachment Chopin - Raindrop UX.mp3



Schubert Sonata

Grand

View attachment Schubert - Sonata - Grand.mp3


Relic

View attachment Schubert - Sonata - Relic.mp3


UX

View attachment Schubert - Sonata - UX.mp3


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## Vik (Oct 31, 2022)

CeDur said:


> With VSL I can run 3 mics simultanously and play without cracks and pops while Walker with 2x less layers I can barely run with 1 mic at 36 layers setting.


Are there no user settings you can edit to make the Walker less troublesome?


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## CeDur (Oct 31, 2022)

Vik said:


> Are there no user settings you can edit to make the Walker less troublesome?


There are a few:

When I set DFD within Kontakt to lowest value possible for that instrument it works much smoother - if anything above 6KB is set, I get crackles and pops. Illogical, but that's how it is with Walker (and I have older SATA3 SSD)
Knob for number of layers doesn't seem to make any difference performance-wise, so I always leave it at max.
Pedal mode - this is the most crucial setting. Eco is fine, HQ is OK-ish, if playing isn't too dense, but HQ+ makes it basically unplayable on my laptop.


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## adaagaard (Oct 31, 2022)

A while back, I wrote a post that may be relevant in a few other threads discussing similar issues.

https://vi-control.net/community/th...cert-d-performance-issues.122142/post-5122156


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 1, 2022)

Don't now if this one was already posted: Audio Brewers Pianoforte. It's a Fazioli F212. I used the stereo library and their "RAW" mix. About the RAW mix: _All Mic Positions placed together with no retouching done - this will help you create your own mixes thanks to the unprocessed sound._

Albeniz

View attachment AB Pianoforte Albeniz.mp3


Chopin

View attachment AB Pianoforte Chopin.mp3


Shubert

View attachment AB Pianoforte Shubert.mp3


Waltz for Debby

View attachment AB Pianoforte Waltz for Debby.mp3


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## Emanuel Fróes (Nov 5, 2022)

Which piano is this


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## CGR (Nov 5, 2022)

Emanuel Fróes said:


> Which piano is this



Sounds like a small antique grand, or maybe an old large upright?


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## Jazzpunk (Nov 16, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Golden Age Grand round 2:
> 
> 
> Chopin Raindrop Prelude NKI 1.1
> ...


These are so cool! Thinking of picking Golden Age up and was wondering if Post Card Piano is worth getting as well or if it is redundant?


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## Rudianos (Nov 16, 2022)

Jazzpunk said:


> These are so cool! Thinking of picking Golden Age up and was wondering if Post Card Piano is worth getting as well or if it is redundant?


They're not the most different sounds in the world but if you enjoy character pianos I do think postcard would compliment it well. Might have that sitting on this thread somewhere


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## GtrString (Nov 16, 2022)

*Arturia Augmented Piano*, how does it compare to things like NI Piano Colors, Heavyocity Ascend and Spectrasonics Keyscape you think? (I own Keyscape and Ascend, but not the other two)


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## Baronvonheadless (Nov 16, 2022)

Jazzpunk said:


> These are so cool! Thinking of picking Golden Age up and was wondering if Post Card Piano is worth getting as well or if it is redundant?


I feel like the digital signal in golden age grand is basically the post card sound.


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## Jazzpunk (Nov 16, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I feel like the digital signal in golden age grand is basically the post card sound.


Just ordered Golden Age. Thanks for posting those clips. Excited to make some music with this one!


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## Zanshin (Nov 21, 2022)

I finally picked up the Vienna Imperial. Shut the front door! It's soooooo good. Thank you for the demos @Rudianos @CGR


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## Rudianos (Nov 21, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I finally picked up the Vienna Imperial. Shut the front door! It's soooooo good. Thank you for the demos @Rudianos @CGR


Outstanding I'm glad you got that one. Really superb


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## Emanuel Fróes (Nov 22, 2022)

CGR said:


> Sounds like a small antique grand, or maybe an old large upright?


Heaviocity. Free piano ; )


i would stay with the upright, although is hard to tell. It can be a Steinway with some peculiar mic, etc?


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## ashtonmorgan (Nov 22, 2022)

Does anyone know if there's a dedicated thread for piano VST Black Friday sales? I couldn't find one, and I would hate to miss out on any good deals on great piano vsts.


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## Rudianos (Nov 22, 2022)

ashtonmorgan said:


> Does anyone know if there's a dedicated thread for piano VST Black Friday sales? I couldn't find one, and I would hate to miss out on any good deals on great piano vsts.


not sure - it would be a good idea ... So far I know VSL, Soniccouture, Xperimenta are top hitters with sales - CinePiano too


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## ashtonmorgan (Nov 22, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> not sure - it would be a good idea ... So far I know VSL, Soniccouture, Xperimenta are top hitters with sales - CinePiano too


To add to that list, Art Vista said they'll be doing BF but are unsure of the date, Sampletekk has 90% off all libraries, and I inquired with Embertone and the rep said they typically do BF but are unsure if they'll do it this year or not.


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## poly6 (Nov 22, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> not sure - it would be a good idea ... So far I know VSL, Soniccouture, Xperimenta are top hitters with sales - CinePiano too


It might be easier to list which pianos *aren't* on sale. BF sales I know of:
- 8dio: 70% off everything including 1985 Passionate, 1969 Legacy, 1990 Studio Grand, etc.
- Acoustic Samples: 30% everything including pianos like A-PIAN, B-PIAN, Academic Grand, C7 Grand, Kawai-Ex Pro
- Audio Imperia: 50% off including Klavier
- AudioPlugin Deals: everything at base price, including Xperimenta Due $49, Xperimenta Preparato $59, Sampletekk (but cheaper at Sampletekk directly)
- Cinematic Studio Series: 25% off including Cinematic Studio Piano
- Chocolate Audio: 30% off including various 88 Series Pianos
- Cinesamples: 65% off everything including Cinepiano and Piano in Blue
- e-instruments: 50% off including Session Keys S/Y/Upright
- Embertone: 50% off Walker 1955 Concert D; Concert D Lite $10
- Echo Sound Works: 50% off everything with code BF50 including Loft Piano and X Grand
- Fluffy Audio: up to 80% including Scoring Piano
- Fracture Sounds: at least 10% off, more for multiple products, including Midnight Grand, Woodchester Piano
- Heavyocity: up to 75% off everything including Ascend: Modern Grand, Mosaic Keys
- Impact Soundworks: Keyboards Bundle (Fredonia Grand Organ, Pearl Concert Grand, Modern Harpejji, Hammer Klavier) $179
- Key Instruments: The Oeser. 50% off
- KeyPleezer: Livingroom Upright Piano 40% off with code *BLACKFRIDAY22*
- Nami Audio: 50% off everything including Hammer and Felt,
- Native Instruments: 50% many instruments including Noire, Piano Colors, Alicia's Keys, etc.
- Melda Production: 50% off many products include Meldway Grand
- Modartt: 25% off everything Pianoteq Stage/Standard/Pro/Studio Bundle, Upgrades, Instrument Packs
- Orange Tree Samples: 35% with code OrangeFriday2022 including Evolution Rosewood Grand
- Production Voices: up to 80% off select libraries including Concert Grand LE $59, Production Grand 2 LE $59, Concert Grand Gold $124.50, Production Grand 2 Gold $124.50, Sforzando Pianos $29
- PrecisionSound: 30% everything including Nordic Upright V2
- Sampletekk. 90% off everything
- Simple Sam Signature Grand: 50% off
- Skybox Audio: Hammer + Waves Acoustic $85
- Soniccouture: 50% off everything include Hammersmith Pro
- Sound Iron: Emotional Piano, Mountclarion, etc. 50% off
- Sound Yeti: Revelation Scoring Grand $99
- Splash Sound: Old School Keys free, Gentle Keys $5
- Spitfire Audio: Various discounts including HZPiano $299, Orchestral Grand $36, Olafur Arnalds Stratus $224, OA Composer Toolkit $224
- Synthogy: various discounts on Ivory II pianos
- UVI: 30% everything including IRCAM Prepared Piano 2, Austrian Grand, Augmented Piano, Model D
- VI Labs: 35% off including Modern U, Ravenscroft 275, all Truekeys
- VSL: up to 50% off, including Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial, Concert D, Yamaha CFX. Vienna Imperial $145
- Westwood Instruments: Lost Piano $83, Alt Piano $35
- XLN Audio: Addictive Keys 50% off
- Xperimenta Project: 30% off PF2 Piano FZ, 30% off Preparato Piano, 40% Due Piano

See @premjj posting for links:






Live Now: November / Black Friday / Cyber Monday Deals - 2022 Edition


(Please bookmark THIS LINK to come back to this page directly) (Past threads for the respective years are at these links: 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021) (If you'd like to show your support for the work that goes behind maintaining this thread then please consider contributing at my Ko-fi page. I...




vi-control.net


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## Vik (Nov 22, 2022)

poly6 said:


> - Sampletekk. 90% off everything


What are your fav. SampleTekk pianos, @SampleTekk?


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## Rudianos (Nov 22, 2022)

Vik said:


> What are your fav. SampleTekk pianos, @SampleTekk?


I have been playing a lot of these Sampletekk pianos lately! Rain piano and vertical are very nice uprights... I like the SSG and the TVBO as well.


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## Lord Daknight (Nov 22, 2022)

Just for fun I'll include these 

1. Microsoft Default Midi Soundfont Piano 1
2. Earthbound Mellow Piano
3. Pokemon Diamond and Pearl Piano


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## Rudianos (Nov 22, 2022)

Lord Daknight said:


> Just for fun I'll include these
> 
> 1. Microsoft Default Midi Soundfont Piano 1
> 2. Earthbound Mellow Piano
> 3. Pokemon Diamond and Pearl Piano


Thanks. Please post the MIDI so that it can be compared to other pianos by other members. I personally want to hear this in Synchron.


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## Lord Daknight (Nov 23, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Thanks. Please post the MIDI so that it can be compared to other pianos by other members. I personally want to hear this in Synchron.


Here you go, Sorry lost the velocity data


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## ashtonmorgan (Nov 25, 2022)

Embertone Walker 1955 Concert D library is on sale for $97, full version and all mic perspectives. Was an instant purchase for me and is my new favorite library.


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## spti4 (Nov 25, 2022)

Embertone Walker 1955 Concert D LITE version is $10 right now! Love this thread by the way. Really been helpful in deciding on new purchases.


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## ashtonmorgan (Nov 25, 2022)

spti4 said:


> Embertone Walker 1955 Concert D LITE version is $10 right now! Love this thread by the way. Really been helpful in deciding on new purchases.


Yeah, I should have mentioned this, that is an absolute, ridiculous steal. If anyone doesn't go for the full version I would highly recommend at least getting this.


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## poly6 (Nov 25, 2022)

Production Voices BF: 

Concert Grand LE - Steinway D Library - Was $149 - *NOW $59*

Production Grand 2 LE - Yamaha C7 Library - Was $199 - *NOW $59*

Production Grand 2 Gold - Yamaha C7 Library - Was $249 - *NOW $124.50*

Concert Grand Gold - Steinway D Library - Was $249 - *NOW $124.50*

The Halfling - Soundscape Library - Was $139 - *NOW $29*

Death Piano - Tortured Piano Library - Was $79 - *NOW $19*

Concert Grand Compact - Steinway D Library - Was $99 - *NOW $29*

Death Piano - Tortured Pianos - Was $99 - *NOW $29*

Estate Grand - Kawai Grand - Was $99 - *NOW $24.50*

Production Grand Compact - Yamaha C7 - Was $99 - *NOW $29*

The Halfling for sforzando - Soundscape library - Was $99 - *NOW $29*

300 Grand Compact - Yamaha CFX Library - Was $99 - *NOW $39*

Electric V - Classic Tines Electric Piano - Was $79 - *NOW $19*


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## ashtonmorgan (Nov 26, 2022)

Thought I'd let everyone know that KeyPleezer just informed me that they're doing a Black Friday this year on their LivingRoom Upright Complete.

40% off makes the library $69

Code: BLACKFRIDAY22









LivingRoom Upright Piano - virtual piano instrument • KeyPleezer


LivingRoom Upright Piano, a virtual character upright piano instrument for Kontakt sampler & soundware. Music production or live performances (PC/Mac).




keypleezer.com





I'm loving the library so far! I also purchased The Oeser yesterday and it's also gorgeous, would definitely recommend both. Will use some of the midi's here and add them to this thread if they haven't been uploaded already.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Nov 26, 2022)

I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that Piano In Blue is currently on sale for $49 (65% off!) and now works with the free Kontakt Player  Our Black Friday sale runs through November 30th.


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## Rudianos (Nov 26, 2022)

For @filcho89

Imperfect Samples Walnut Albeniz Chants Close Mics

View attachment Albeniz - Chants Walnut.mp3


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## planist (Nov 28, 2022)

spti4 said:


> Embertone Walker 1955 Concert D LITE version is $10 right now! Love this thread by the way. Really been helpful in deciding on new purchases.


which mic position has the LITE version? i can't find it on the website.


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## Vik (Nov 28, 2022)

planist said:


> which mic position has the LITE version? i can't find it on the website.


These are the mic positions for the full version – I'm pretty sure the light version only comes with the main/default mics – one mic option only (and fewer dynamic layers):

From their site:

"Main (Default)
Mics: AKG C414 XLS, ORTF Stereo
Position: 2 ft off the side lip at the curve of the piano.
Qualities: Balanced piano/room tone with a beautiful twinkly high register and tamed low end. Vibrant and hearty with enough air space to breathe.

Close
Mics: Neumann U87, A/B Stereo (Omni)
Position: 6 in off the strings
Qualities: Extremely intimate and warm with very little room ambience. Rich with string reverberance while capturing all the subtle mechanical sounds.

Hammer
Mics: Superlux S241/U3, X/Y Stereo
Position: 1 ft above pointed directly at the hammers.
Qualities: Punchy and percussive dynamics, great for pop/rock music.

Room
Mics: Schoeps CMC 6, A/B Stereo (Cardioid)
Position: 6 ft away 8ft high, pointing towards the inside of the lid from the audience perspective.
Qualities: More room ambience and reverb coloration while allowing the piano to fully resonate into the room. Great for achieving a traditional/classical sound in a concert hall or recital setting.

Wide Perspective
Mics: Modified Oktava Mk012, A/B Stereo (Omni)
Position: 1 ft from the piano at the player’s perspective, spaced at the full width of the keyboard.
Qualities: An experimental mic pair capturing an ultra-wide stereo image with a unique and enveloping character.

Binaural Perspective (Bruce!)
Mics: Stereo binaural dummy head (affectionately named Bruce)

Position: 2ft from the the keyboard at the player’s perspective.
Qualities: Realistic spatialization, especially when listening through headphones.






Walker 1955 Concert D







www.embertone.com










The current price for the light version serves as a brilliant way to check out the tone/playability etc for $10 before buying it. I wish all libraries offered something similar – not only a demo version with a limited range, but something which is usable and worth the low price even if we don't end up buying it. 

I'm almost sure I'll buy the full version, and I'll definitely spend those $10 check it out. The update price is the difference between the two prices – $80 for the full version with all mics (for a few more days). That lite version can also be kept for those who want it (for $10), and can be useful eg. as a laptop piano – whether one buys the full version or not.


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## spti4 (Nov 28, 2022)

Vik said:


> These are the mic positions for the full version – I'm pretty sure the light version only comes with the main/default mics – one mic option only (and fewer dynamic layers):
> 
> From their site:
> 
> ...


The Walker D LITE is almost for sure the "Main" mics, as stated above. Although, I've not found anything written that confirms it 100%.


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## Craig Allen (Dec 4, 2022)

I just played the Walker 1955 this evening for the first time. Besides the MAIN mics, I bought additionally the Hammers and the Room mics. Wow. This is the most beautiful-sounding Piano VI that I have yet come across (and I own a dozen of the usual suspects). This is the first one that I've experienced love at first play. (And I regularly play on acoustic 7' Mason & Hamlin and a 7'4" Yamaha C7). Pretty sure this is the first time I've been actually taken with a VI piano, after many disappointments.


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