# Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro & Sonarworks ?



## mac88104 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hi,
I only start to learn mixing and am definitely a newbie in using the Sonarworks Reference tool. I just installed the soft version 4. I use the DT880Pro average preset (I plan to send them my headphones for a more precise calibration at the end of my trial period). I also use monitors but my room is not adapted for mixing so I continue to much use my headphones to mix. I also plan to calibrate my monitors with the Sonarworks Studio edition within the end of this year.

I must say I am a little doubtfull with this new sound. With the Sonarworks plugin everything seems to be choked. I understand it may be normal because the correction cut off air, some pleasant bump frequencies from 4khz to 10khz... I also had a wide hole at around 2khz, which may be flat now.

So concerning the project I am currently working on, the sound is now muffled and I don't hear anymore number of things in the background that I heared before. So does it mean that I have to increase the modulation of what I miss now (I try to avoid to change the volume of the tracks because my template is now balanced) ?

I ask this because of the uncertainty of the average correction of the plugin and I wonder if this average correction will not finally generate errors in my mix. I have the same feeling listening to music mixed by professionals.

So I understand that my headphones had a tendency to embellish all mixes and that now it is up to me to modify my orchestrations (the better the orchestration is, the less is to do in mixing) and mix to improve the clarity ? But if I accentuate certain frequencies to hear them distinctly through the plugin, I am a little worried because these frequencies will be too much accentuated on headphones or other consumer systems which embellish all mixes by already accentuating this frequencies ? Or do I have to make these background sounds just slightly noticeable on my headphones (which are indeed very good and allow to hear a great amount of details in the background) so that it is may not be too pronounced and well integrated in the mix on consumer systems ?

I'm a little lost, I guess I do not take the problem properly so I am very interested to hear your opinions.

Thanks


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## pmcrockett (Oct 16, 2017)

I can't say anything about the DT 880 Pros specifically, but my experience with Sonarworks on a pair of AKG K702s is that it corrects for what I already knew were issues with that headphone model (lack of bass, overemphasis of highs). I'd been mixing with those headphones for years before ever trying Sonarworks, so I was already very familiar with their quirks and could tell immediately that the correction was giving me a more neutral frequency balance. A/B-ing the two, the corrected version doesn't sound strictly better from the perspective of casual listening, but I find that I can mix faster and more confidently with the corrected version (less screwing around to get the frequency balance just right), and once finished, the mix still holds up when I listen to it uncorrected.

One thing worth mentioning that you've indirectly touched on already: because you say you're still pretty new to mixing, it's possible that your understanding of what a good mix ought to sound like has been skewed by the idiosyncrasies of the DT 880 Pros. For example, you bring up the issue of sounds that are clear when uncorrected vs. unclear when corrected. It's possible that those sounds simply shouldn't have that sort of clarity in a proper mix, and you only think they should because that's what you're used to hearing from the headphones. It's hard to say for sure, of course, because I don't know what specifically you're listening for, but just bear in mind that being comfortable with the way a mix sounds doesn't necessarily make it a good mix.

If you've done much mixing on the DT 880 Pros already, then think back to how your past mixes turned out. Are there things that have consistently given you trouble? In my case, getting the proper bass/treble balance on the K702s was always an issue, and I'd frequently not discover problems until I'd bounced to disk and listened back the next day, comparing it to professional mixes. If you've had problems like this, then those are the sort of things that Sonarworks should help correct -- but the only way to know if it will help correct those problems is to jump in and do some mixing.

So my suggestion is to do a test mix with the correction enabled so that it sounds good to you with the correction enabled. Have a professionally-mixed reference track in the same genre on hand to make sure you're not accidentally reemphasizing the things you're used to hearing from the uncorrected DT 880 Pros. When you're done, take it to various other speaker systems and see how it sounds. Ultimately, the question you should be asking is _does this plugin make my mixes faster, easier, and more playable on a variety of playback systems?_ Because that's what's really important. Achieving a flat frequency spectrum in your monitoring headphones is just a means to that end.


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## sostenuto (Oct 16, 2017)

pmcrockett said:


> I can't say anything about the DT 880 Pros specifically, but my experience with Sonarworks on a pair of AKG K702s is that it corrects for what I already knew were issues with that headphone model (lack of bass, overemphasis of highs). I'd been mixing with those headphones for years before ever trying Sonarworks, so I was already very familiar with their quirks and could tell immediately that the correction was giving me a more neutral frequency balance. A/B-ing the two, the corrected version doesn't sound strictly better from the perspective of casual listening, but I find that I can mix faster and more confidently with the corrected version (less screwing around to get the frequency balance just right), and once finished, the mix still holds up when I listen to it uncorrected.
> 
> One thing worth mentioning that you've indirectly touched on already: because you say you're still pretty new to mixing, it's possible that your understanding of what a good mix ought to sound like has been skewed by the idiosyncrasies of the DT 880 Pros. For example, you bring up the issue of sounds that are clear when uncorrected vs. unclear when corrected. It's possible that those sounds simply shouldn't have that sort of clarity in a proper mix, and you only think they should because that's what you're used to hearing from the headphones. It's hard to say for sure, of course, because I don't know what specifically you're listening for, but just bear in mind that being comfortable with the way a mix sounds doesn't necessarily make it a good mix.
> 
> ...



Interesting Thread over on Reaper Forums (Genl Discuss) re. DT1990 Pro. Very strong on Senn, but now DT1990 is highly likely next ....


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## mc_deli (Oct 16, 2017)

mac88104 said:


> Hi,
> I only start to learn mixing and am definitely a newbie in using the Sonarworks Reference tool. I just installed the soft version 4. I use the DT880Pro average preset (I plan to send them my headphones for a more precise calibration at the end of my trial period). I also use monitors but my room is not adapted for mixing so I continue to much use my headphones to mix. I also plan to calibrate my monitors with the Sonarworks Studio edition within the end of this year.
> 
> I must say I am a little doubtfull with this new sound. With the Sonarworks plugin everything seems to be choked. I understand it may be normal because the correction cut off air, some pleasant bump frequencies from 4khz to 10khz... I also had a wide hole at around 2khz, which may be flat now.
> ...


Have you got it set up right? Can you see the before and target curves? Do you just have the DT880 curve on, and nothing else?
If you really think some of the frequency bands are not right or jumping out, can you sweep with an osc tone and be certain?

The mistake I made first time with SW was to bounce with SW on and then monitor the mixed file with SW - so double the correction curves - not good! I avoid that now by having SW running outside the DAW


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Oct 16, 2017)

I think you just need to get used to it like you would if you got new headphones. I consider my uncorrected DT 880 to be completely different headphones. I don't know them very well and wouldn't feel comfortable working on them. I only use them corrected. I don't need to compensate for any known issues on it. I can just make it sound great on them. Having said that, I only use them as a reference.


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## juliansader (Oct 16, 2017)

mac88104 said:


> Hi,
> I only start to learn mixing and am definitely a newbie in using the Sonarworks Reference tool. I just installed the soft version 4. I use the DT880Pro average preset (I plan to send them my headphones for a more precise calibration at the end of my trial period).
> 
> So concerning the project I am currently working on, the sound is now muffled and I don't hear anymore number of things in the background that I heared before.



I have the DT990, not the DT880, but I had the same impression when I tested v3. Sound was muffled and completely useless.

You can perhaps also try Tonebooster's Morphit, to compare their EQ curves and corrected sound.


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## Jaybee (Oct 18, 2017)

I'm using DT880Pro & Sonarworks v3 average profile (only just seen the email from them regarding the new v4 so haven't looked at that in depth yet). Any adjustments or mixes done on the DT880s with v3 are translating over fine to my speakers which are calibrated with Sonarworks v3 due to having a compromised room here. 

What I will say is that going from any 'sweetened' headphones/speakers to a truly neutral representation can take some getting used to. What do they sound like when you run some commercial audio you know and love through them? Are your DT880s the 250ohm version which Sonarworks profiled? There appears to be 32ohm & 600ohm variants available too.


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## dimtsak (Nov 7, 2017)

I just downloaded the Sonarworks v4 to try with my DT880 250 Ohm.
They are really completely different headphones.
If this is how they should sound if they were flat, i m actually shocked right now!

I need a few days to decide what i am going to do..
I am not sure wich of the "two" headphones i must use.

Anyone else that owns the DT880, give a try with the plugin and share your thoughts here if you 'd like too.
It will be helpful for many i guess.


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## mac88104 (Nov 8, 2017)

Hi,
Thank you very much for all your answers. Indeed the curve correction is actually very confusing at first and if we do this in the middle of a project and a fortiori at the time of mixing, it is a bit of horror. But you were all right. I think the whole thing is to start on a new project. When developing the project ideas and orchestration, the brain will naturally fill in high frequency areas that were highlighted (and so forgotten by me) by the factory-output headphones. This will reduce the mixing effort to reach clarity on other listening systems. What I have recently done with my "new" headphones (250 Ohm) actually sounds better on my other listening systems, so...

I also use the Sonarworks simulation system, especially to lighten the low frequencies. And it helps me to avoid this feeling of mud on amplified bass listening systems. Well it never sounds good on simulated Beats headphones but... people just have to buy something else...


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## mac88104 (Nov 8, 2017)

My trying period is over and to be sure to work in better conditions I am waiting for a possible Black Friday offer to send my headphones to Sonarworks. Just to be sure to be as flat as possible.

Meanwhile I modified my soundcard output frequencies to balance them a little bit following as much as possible the Sonaworks correction.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Nov 8, 2017)

dimtsak said:


> I just downloaded the Sonarworks v4 to try with my DT880 250 Ohm.
> They are really completely different headphones.
> If this is how they should sound if they were flat, i m actually shocked right now!



It is indeed a shocking difference when A/B-ing with and without the correction curve. I have the BD DT990 250 ohm set, and they have a very noticeable (and pleasant) boost at the top. The flat response feels very bland and muffled in comparison - but you will be mixing with more confidence when you try it for a while and test out mixes on different speakers.


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## mac88104 (Nov 8, 2017)

Yes, we don't like what is flat but it allows you to build/rise the pleasant areas of your mix yourself. That's what I can say based on my little experience.


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## Noam Guterman (Nov 8, 2017)

dimtsak said:


> Anyone else that owns the DT880, give a try with the plugin and share your thoughts here if you 'd like too.
> It will be helpful for many i guess.


I have those cans, and I'm currently running the plugin + Systemwide on trial, and I'll most definitely buy it afterwards. Not only do they sound more "reference"y / flat, but the general timbre is WAY BETTER, and far more enjoyable to listen to. So win win I guess


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## Vin (Nov 9, 2017)

I've been using it for a while with my DT 880 Pros (plugin & systemwide) and it completely transformed my mixes. Fantastic stuff. You just have to get used to the sound since your cans will sound completely different - especially high frequencies.


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## dimtsak (Nov 11, 2017)

Noam Guterman said:


> Not only do they sound more "reference"y / flat, but the general timbre is WAY BETTER, and far more enjoyable to listen to


Yes, i thought the same.
But i have my concerns when i listen to classical music recordings.
Is it really more natural with the correction?
Listen to this for example, and try switching on and off the sonarworks.
To my ears it seems more natural without sonarworks and with better sense of the ambience.
Correct me if i 'm wrong!


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## mac88104 (Nov 11, 2017)

dimtsak said:


> Yes, i thought the same.
> But i have my concerns when i listen to classical music recordings.
> Is it really more natural with the correction?
> Listen to this for example, and try switching on and off the sonarworks.
> ...



Personnaly I prefer listen to music without the correction because of this pleasant bump in the mid-high / high frequencies. Sound seems to be crystal clear but I think it's due to this little defect of the DT880 Pro (only a defect if you use them as monitoring headphones).

Adding high-frequencies can make sounds feel closer-up (reducing the highs can make them feel further away), so I think that it fits this idea that the sound seems to be more natural actually.

But to build my sound, I plug Sonarworks in and try to create this crystal clear sound myself.


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