# French Horns In The Mix



## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 12, 2011)

Hey gang,

I find I'm sometimes struggling to make the french horn or horns fit in with the other instruments when I'm writing a big-sounding cue. I know that the timbre of the instrument is not easy to control in general, and was wondering if you had any tips (compression, EQ)? 

FWIW, I'm using Epic Horns (maddening contrast between same-key multisamples), Symphobia II Solo Horn or Horns and Strings (not enough dynamic/timbral variety).


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## Mr Greg G (Apr 12, 2011)

Hey Ned,

Epic Horns are nice when used subtly. I generally use Orchestral Brass Classic (OBC) as my main Brass section and have been pretty satisfied with the results so far. I don't know about Symphobia 2 but in Symphobia 1, the brass section is a bit thin, which can be great depending on what you want to achieve in term of sound. But for the "in-yo-face" type of sound, OBC is a good way to go.

Some months ago, I did a mockup of Zimmer's Dream is Collapsing which features heavy brass sections. I was curious if it was possible to get the closest possible to the original cue with sample libraries. I think the result was quite good (at least for my ears). I can't check how I mixed the brass section into the mix for now because I'm assembling a new workstation but if I remember right, it was just about finding the right volume level compared to the overall mix. Maybe a high pass filter. I didn't use compression at all, that's for sure.

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... ht=#247591
(One of the lowest replies/views ratios of this board history)

Maybe you should also do a mockup from a track you like with the sound you would like to reach. It's a great exercise so you can adjust your template for future projects.


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## stonzthro (Apr 12, 2011)

ned, make sure you have the controllers assigned in VI player - have all the difference in the world on VSL samples. (You probably already do - but just in case)


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## antoniopandrade (Apr 15, 2011)

I find that the Epic Horns are best used up until the F range. When they get up to FFF you need something to mask that infamous "xfade" that can be pretty audible. Just make sure you write a counterline or a swell on any other section to hide those little fragments. As for making them sit in the mix, try to position them on the opposite end of the stage than the other brass, because the horns really are quite different in sound that the trumpets and trombones, it helps to distinguish them in the mix. Hope this helps a bit.


A question about OBC. I'm used to using VSL, so I haven't fiddled that much with Kontakt yet. Is it possible to assign some sort of dynamic control to the modwheel with that library? The fact that dynamics are controlled by note velocity drives me nuts, it's a little counterintuitive to how I learned to sequence sustained sound instruments.


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## RiffWraith (Apr 15, 2011)

I use Epic Horns in conjunction with PSam Orch Brass. I find that:

1) Some eq in the upper mids and high end, particularly a couple of db in the 4k and 11k range 

2) Some _light_ compression on just the horns (in addition to possible compression on the op bus)

3) Proper pannning...stage right, with extra stereo reverb that clearly reverberates to stage left

4) Fader automation, where you bring back certain notes, and accentuate others

...all come in handy.

Cheers.


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## JJP (Apr 15, 2011)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Apr 12 said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> I find I'm sometimes struggling to make the french horn or horns fit in with the other instruments when I'm writing a big-sounding cue. I know that the timbre of the instrument is not easy to control in general, and was wondering if you had any tips (compression, EQ)?



Are they sticking out or getting lost?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 15, 2011)

Both!!! 

Thanks for all the GREAT TIPS guys! Starting a new gig, and I'm going to be brass shopping, as well as trying to make what I have work. Thinking of getting the Epic Horns extended dl...


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## JJP (Apr 15, 2011)

Okay then, just some general notes about horns...

We usually hear them as reflected, indirect sound rather than from one particular position like the rest of the brass. The bells point backwards. Treating them like trumpets or trombones often makes them sound unnatural and harsh and they don't seem to blend. The compression and reverb comments above may be helpful to give them a more "natural" blended sound.

Also take a look at how you're using the horns. Horn timbre changes greatly with the range and dynamics of the instrument. They're kinda like woodwinds in that way. In the low range they don't always project well if they're buried in other instruments. In the high range they are "pinched," but don't have the cutting power of a trumpet. Sometimes horns don't blend well because they are being asked to do things against their nature, so to speak.


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## SvK (Apr 15, 2011)

concerning EPIC Horns...I do hope you guys are using them to perform a unison line only right?

I mean a triad is equal to 24 horns and that sounds
silly no?

SvK


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## SvK (Apr 15, 2011)

The HO-4 samples from Vienna are one of their best offerings.....

when i play 2nds, 3ds, 4ths or 5ths I use those and when i play a single note i use Epic worx great...

SvK


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## Tanuj Tiku (Apr 15, 2011)

SvK @ Sat Apr 16 said:


> The HO-4 samples from Vienna are one of their best offerings.....
> 
> when i play 2nds, 3ds, 4ths or 5ths I use those and when i play a single note i use Epic worx great...
> 
> SvK



+1


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 15, 2011)

Steven, thanks for the tip! Now I'll pick up those VSL Horns, so I can finally play chords! I'd pick up some of the other offerings, like Brass Dimensions, but I'd rather wait a few weeks...


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## SvK (Apr 15, 2011)

Ned,

no problem 
have fun


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