# How to get the best sonics out of Staffpad



## Elephant (Dec 4, 2020)

Hello all ! I am puzzling over a question at the moment after listening yo some Staffpad mockups, including on this great thread https://vi-control.net/community/threads/compositions-on-staffpad.95360/ 

What are people finding gives the best dynamic range in terms of libraries and mixing/plugin configurations and techniques in order to give a high dynamic range sound ? Are there any special plugins that work especially well ? I am interested in any examples that approach the quality of a good mockup using traditional libraries, and especially interested where there is a version done in SP and a version done using traditional libraries, to be able to hear the difference ! Thanks very much


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 4, 2020)

David Hearn suggests turning down the master volume up and adding a bit of dynamic compression when working with Berlin expansions because of their large dynamic range (some people will notice that percussion "disappears" under mp to pp

This was his suggestion as a work around. Not quite the answer you are after however. I've exported WAV and AIFF stems to Luna and mastered in that.


----------



## gh0stwrit3r (Dec 5, 2020)

I export my STEMS out of StaffPad and do the mixing and mastering in Logic. But I try to get a good balance first in StaffPad though using the automation in the app.


----------



## M Abela (Dec 5, 2020)

gh0stwrit3r said:


> I export my STEMS out of StaffPad and do the mixing and mastering in Logic. But I try to get a good balance first in StaffPad though using the automation in the app.



Same here for individual stems export and good base balance in SP with the Berlin libraries. Then I hand them off for mixing and mastering to my audio engineer.


----------



## Elephant (Dec 5, 2020)

Thanks to all sofar ! Very interested to hear from people using both Staffpad and who have been using traditional libraries as to how the quality compares between the two mockup methods ........


----------



## brandowalk (Dec 7, 2020)

I re-did a long form piece in SP after originally composing in a DAW. I used the same Spitfire libraries for both. Similar sounding results but SP sounded better and more organic for whatever reason to me. I will post both at some point for comparing. The DAW version wasn’t quantized, so that might of been a factor.


----------



## Montisquirrel (Dec 8, 2020)

brandowalk said:


> I re-did a long form piece in SP after originally composing in a DAW. I used the same Spitfire libraries for both. Similar sounding results but SP sounded better and more organic for whatever reason to me. I will post both at some point for comparing. The DAW version wasn’t quantized, so that might of been a factor.



I would love to listen to this comparison


----------



## brandowalk (Dec 8, 2020)

Okay... here is the *comparison of a composition done in a DAW vs StaffPad* using essentially the same libraries. 

I'll give some lengthy background as to how this all came about if you are interested. Otherwise, skip to the bottom for the two versions.

The piece is a Symphonic first mvmt "Allegro," just over 9 minutes long. I originally played in the parts using a MIDI controller into ProTools. Most of the original parts were not quantized (I thought to keep a more realistic feel). Some fast or tricky lines were quantized. The piece was mixed in ProTools.

15 months later, and after discovering SP, I needed a conductor score. I opted to do this in StaffPad (SP) as Finale takes too long for me. So I quantized parts in ProTools, split out any doubles in the WW or Brass, and exported a MIDI file into StaffPad. (ProTools does not export XML). In StaffPad, I cleaned up the score and made some minor score improvements. This took some time and gave me a chance to refresh the score, which was good. Once the SP version was completed, I exported stems (individual tracks) out to ProTools where I added reverbs, minor EQ and did a mix.

Both versions utilized Spitfire Audio Symphonic Orchestra (SSS, SSW, SSB, Joby Burgess Perc.). The SP version used Berlin Harp (there is no Spitfire Harp in SP). There will be some differences in these two versions due to various factors, but I think the overall outputs are a fair comparison.

Suggestions for making the comparison:

Listen to each at the same volume. You may need to adjust levels manually.
Probably best not to look at the score in ver 2. Rely on your ears for the comparison.
There is a string only section around 5:03 that may be of interest for comparing.


I'll leave my comparison impressions later. 

*Version 1 (DAW)*
*Version 2 (StaffPad, mixed in DAW)*

Cheers,
Brandon


----------



## brandowalk (Dec 8, 2020)

Elephant said:


> Hello all! I am puzzling over a question at the moment after listening yo some Staffpad mockups, including on this great thread https://vi-control.net/community/threads/compositions-on-staffpad.95360/
> 
> What are people finding gives the best dynamic range in terms of libraries and mixing/plugin configurations and techniques in order to give a high dynamic range sound ? Are there any special plugins that work especially well ?


Trying to answer the OPs questions...

I would say all of the SP libraries are dynamic, from what I can tell. As David mentioned above, some instruments are difficult to hear in lower dynamics (PP, P, MP). Some inconsistencies can be countered using volume graphs or just by writing using a higher dynamic marking. 

The dynamic range comes from how you compose, using cresc/decr. and volume dynamics. Building and adding (or opposite) more and more instruments over a musical section will give the impression of more dynamics.

I leave the fine-tuning of the mixing when I export to ProTools, removing any compression and reverb in the export. I like to ride the string levels, other instruments, and reverbs in this stage to give more dynamics. I don't like fussing with the SP volume graphs if at all possible.

For plug-ins, you should go easy on the compression for orchestra music to have a more dynamic range. To make things seem a bit larger, I will add some "air" or very high EQ (12KHz or 16KHz) to make sparkle a bit and often add a bit more in 60-100Hz. Sometimes I take a little muddiness out (300Hz). 
You can experiment with the stereo field to make it wider or narrower. I tend to go 120%. 

In terms of what plug-ins work best? Any plugin tool should work if you know what you are going after. I use UA plugins primarily as that is what I have... Pultec EQP-1A, Softube TLA-100A (compressor), Brainworkx, BX-1, Lexicon 480L, Studer A800 tape. Sometimes I put a Neve pre-amp on each section bus to warm things up a bit. These are the plug-ins I often reach for, but any good quality plug-ins will do. I hope this helps your journey of better sonics in SP.


----------



## gussunkri (Dec 8, 2020)

brandowalk said:


> Okay... here is the *comparison of a composition done in a DAW vs StaffPad* using essentially the same libraries.
> 
> I'll give some lengthy background as to how this all came about if you are interested. Otherwise, skip to the bottom for the two versions.
> 
> ...


That is indeed fascinating. I prefer the Staffpad version by far. It flows better and sounds more cohesive. Odd that they are so different. Also, nice composition!


----------



## rudi (Dec 9, 2020)

Same here, the SP version sounds more integrated and blends together better than the DAW version, as if all the sections are sitting in the same space. It sounds more balanced.


----------



## gh0stwrit3r (Dec 9, 2020)

It seems like SP uses the ambient mics from the Kontakt version of the Spitfire Audio libraries. At least, in my humble opinion that sounds pretty the same.


----------



## brandowalk (Dec 9, 2020)

gh0stwrit3r said:


> It seems like SP uses the ambient mics from the Kontakt version of the Spitfire Audio libraries. At least, in my humble opinion that sounds pretty the same.


I would have guessed it was mostly the Tree mic, but you might be right. Either way doesn't matter cause we can't change it!


----------



## Montisquirrel (Dec 9, 2020)

brandowalk said:


> Okay... here is the *comparison of a composition done in a DAW vs StaffPad* using essentially the same libraries.
> ......



Thank you for sharing. I also prefer the StaffPad version, but honestly the difference is not that huge. Both versions sound very good. Great composition Brandon!


----------

