# Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - [UPDATE 1.7]



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Hey Guys,

after 3 weeks of recordings, 6 months of editing, mapping and scripting, we´re proud to announce our upcoming library "Berlin Woodwinds",
which will be released soon!
Berlin Woodwinds is the biggest sample-collection in the OrchestralTools family. We put much love and ideas into the recordings.
Produced in a city which is famous for its history, tradition and the best orchestras in the world.
But before we started to sample the woodwinds, we made castings and went to concerts where the musicians performed with the whole orchestra.
We worked on the huge concept and made test-recordings to find the best possible solutions for legatos, vibrato-styles etc.

*All videos:*

Creating Berlin Woodwinds:
http://youtu.be/7yUXQPZjehg

"Berlin Stories" Screencast by Sascha Knorr
http://youtu.be/-oSuEtGnS1o

Flute 1 Legato first overview:
http://youtu.be/LmuVeV03J8A?hd=1

Chapter I: Short Notes:
http://youtu.be/cHIah5KA2wE

Chapter II: Runs & Fast Lines:
http://youtu.be/o3v9ezzFhyo

Chapter III: True Legato:
http://youtu.be/re5aRwSOwyE

Chapter IV: Articulations Performer *new*
http://youtu.be/99sLgz1UhaE

*Audio Demos:*

"Berlin Stories" by Sascha Knorr
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/audio/bww/berlin_stories.mp3[/mp3]

"Flying" by Craig Sharmat 
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/audio/bww/flying.mp3[/mp3]


"Saying Goodbye" by Ben Botkin *new*
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/audio/bww/saying_goodbye.mp3[/mp3]

"The Second Star to the Left" by Ben Botkin *new*
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/audio/bww/the_second_star_to_the_left.mp3[/mp3]


Some more facts:

- True Legato sampling on every instrument (at 3 velocity-layers!)

- Up to 3 different vibrato-styles

- Divisi? Yes!

- Runs? Of course!

More info:

http://orchestraltools.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=148&Itemid=102

Best,
the OrchestralTools team


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## Dmitry Noskov

Great news! Waiting for more info.


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## Sam

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

"Begun, Woodwinds war has" 



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue May 08 said:


> - Divisi? Yes!



Great


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## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

WOW, WOW & WOW !!!


Divisi, and runs o=<


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## Rob

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

beautiful flute tone, Hendrik! looking forward to this library


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## dedersen

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Oooh, the Woodwind War is on! And again it seems we'll be spoiled with choices!


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## Gerd Kaeding

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Wow , Hendrik ! Wonderfull ! Finally Divisi !
( ... A picture of the artist on the Kontakt Instrument ? ... that's really cool !!!... ) 

Best

Gerd


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## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Lots of positive points about this library :

- The room, not too big (like the Sony Sound Stage) & not too small (like the VSL Silent Stage).
- Multiple mics
- Multiple vibrato samples
- Divisi (or rather a1 & a3) just guessing about the a3
- Fl. 1 in the video leads me to think that there will be 2 solo flutes, awesome!
- Controllable key noise
- Controllable "transition noise"
- Runs, can't say enough positive things about having the runs with the same instruments as the non-runs
- Kontakt (we all love Kontakt

Hoping also for some tremolo-trills up to a 5th (if not now, maybe in an update) !


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## Frédéric P

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Great news!! and great flute sound!!


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## EwigWanderer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Divisi? Hell yeah! =o This is great news!


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## chimuelo

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

NCW samples by any chance like LASS, or is the RAM footprint large..?
I will have no trouble deciding if the best of Kontakts implementations were used.
LASS just has changed the game so much, it causes me to alway ask the developers the methods used....


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## ysnyvz

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*



chimuelo @ Tue May 08 said:


> NCW samples by any chance like LASS, or is the RAM footprint large..?
> I will have no trouble deciding if the best of Kontakts implementations were used.
> LASS just has changed the game so much, it causes me to alway ask the developers the methods used....



orchestraltools started using compression(ncw) with OSR before audiobro,so don't worry about it 
btw flute sounds great,bu the interface can have a better looking (i guess it's because of beta version)


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## Scrianinoff

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*



jamwerks @ Tue 08 May said:


> Lots of positive points about this library :
> 
> - The room, not too big (like the Sony Sound Stage) & not too small (like the VSL Silent Stage).
> - Multiple mics
> - Multiple vibrato samples
> - Divisi (or rather a1 & a3) just guessing about the a3
> - Fl. 1 in the video leads me to think that there will be 2 solo flutes, awesome!
> - Controllable key noise
> - Controllable "transition noise"
> - Runs, can't say enough positive things about having the runs with the same instruments as the non-runs
> - Kontakt (we all love Kontakt


+1
and:
- *Xfadeable vibrato* (Edit: see Hendrik's post below)

Congratulations, Hendrik! What an exquisitely beautiful tone! And it appears to be very playable too. With quality like this, I end up buying everything you release. 

By the way, thanks for the Kontakt 5 Time Machine Pro update to OSR (2.1+), which has worked wonders for that library. 

Go Hendrik, Go!


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## Bad Cat Samples

Definitely keeping on eye on this! Sounds great.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Hey Guys, thank you so much for the nice comments!



> +1
> and:
> - Xfadeable vibrato coming in a future update as announced in the linked youtube video.



We´re working on an Articulation Performer which allows you to do that.
And we plan to get this ready for the release!

NCW-compression is no question - we do that since the first version of OSR and Berlin Woodwinds will feature this too. Please don´t have a look on the RAM usage in the video. We´re first mapping everything in wav and convert the complete library into NCW when it´s ready.
BUT I would use a powerful system anyway, because there will be much more included in BWW than just the legatos :mrgreen: 

Best,
Hendrik


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## audiot

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Great! Would be my third library from you :D 
And thank you for the recent updates and the excellent support.
But now it gets hard to decide which woodwind library would be the right one for me. Wait and see. Wish you the best!


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## George Caplan

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Nice tone indeed. What I would like to know is how divisi would work with woodwinds. I get how it would work with strings or brass, but not with woodwinds.


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## Peter Alexander

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

*ORCHESTRATION NOTE*

Divisi is a term relegated to the strings. All others have individual parts.


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## mark812

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*



Peter Alexander @ Tue May 08 said:


> *ORCHESTRATION NOTE*
> 
> Divisi is a term relegated to the strings. All others have individual parts.



I was just writing the same thing.  _Solo, a2, a3_ etc. are woodwind & brass terms - but they're also used when dividing the string sections (_Div. a3_ etc.).


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## Maestro77

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Crap. Was holding out for CineWinds and now this totally screws up the plan. Whoever gets their library out first might get the lion's share of new orders. Hurry up everyone!


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## antoniopandrade

I think maybe the mention of divisi in sampling is to get the ensemble sound using separate instruments that blend naturally with each other. To get the full LASS sound you have to blend all divisi sections using 4 patches for each section, that's what I think Hendrik might be going for... perhaps 3 solo flutes that blend to create a perfect a3 patch? That's the idea, imo.


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## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

I have to admit I didn't get the divisi part either for woods. Great sounding flute. Interested to hear others


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## Casey Edwards

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*



Peter Alexander @ Tue May 08 said:


> *ORCHESTRATION NOTE*
> 
> Divisi is a term relegated to the strings. All others have individual parts.



Traditionally, I think pretty much everyone knows that here. This is, for better or worse, becoming more of a scripting term I believe so people can control polyphonic lines within a solo patch with True Legato intervals.


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## dannthr

Dark horse from Berlin rides to the front of the battlelines.

It sounds great.

Also, I love the portrait--now I demand all of my virtual instruments be recordings of attractive people!


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## Casey Edwards

dannthr @ Tue May 08 said:


> Dark horse from Berlin rides to the front of the battlelines.
> 
> It sounds great.
> 
> Also, I love the portrait--now I demand all of my virtual instruments be recordings of attractive people!



How about a pudgy bassoonist?


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## ryanstrong

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Gah, can't wait for one of these guys to release a woodwind collection. I agree with what was stated above, it's a race to whoever releases what first because this sounds as good if not better then CineSamples.


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## rgames

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*



Peter Alexander @ Tue May 08 said:


> Divisi is a term relegated to the strings. All others have individual parts.


False!

It is very common practice to combine 1st, 2nd, and sometimes even 3rd wind parts on a single sheet of music. Doing so reduces the part count so the copyist has less work to do: if the winds are playing different lines in only a few spots then it doesn't make sense to maintain entirely separate parts - both lines are written on one part in those spots. So they do not, in fact, have individual parts.

The term "divisi" normally is not written on the wind parts because they're (generally) not polyphonic, so it goes without saying that the part is divided.

rgames

EDIT: it is also true that this practice is more common in the wind band world than in orchestral music. But I see it regularly in both settings.


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## dannthr

Casey Edwards @ Tue May 08 said:


> dannthr @ Tue May 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dark horse from Berlin rides to the front of the battlelines.
> 
> It sounds great.
> 
> Also, I love the portrait--now I demand all of my virtual instruments be recordings of attractive people!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a pudgy bassoonist?
Click to expand...


That's the best kind!


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## bryla

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*



mark812 @ Tue May 08 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Tue May 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ORCHESTRATION NOTE*
> 
> Divisi is a term relegated to the strings. All others have individual parts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just writing the same thing.  _Solo, a2, a3_ etc. are woodwind & brass terms - but they're also used when dividing the string sections (_Div. a3_ etc.).
Click to expand...

Difference is that winds are UNISON a2, a3. Strings are DIVISI a2, a3.

Difference is in parts. Woodwind parts are then MERGED on the score. String parts are DIVIDED.


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

regard the divisi-thing:
We made several test-recordings before we started to produce Berlin Woodwinds.
Ensembles are great but they tend to sound like a organ-part - that´s a typical problem in working with sampled woodwinds!

In BWW you will build the ensembles or groups out of solo sampled instruments.
That has several benefits:
- The ensemble will sound much more transparent and more lively and don´t tend to sound like a organ.
- You´re able to create divided voices for each instrument group
- much more control over the voices, the dynamic of each instrument and the vibrato

We made this concept for Flutes, Oboes, Clarinets and Bassoons.

A completely other field are special articulations, which need to be recorded in a group or typical orchestrations (like octivated flutes).

Best,
Hendrik


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## Hanu_H

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Wow. Did not see this coming. Have to say I was a bit dissapointed by the CineWinds announcement and this sounds like everything I need. Hopefully theres all the important articulations.


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## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Wed May 09 said:


> In BWW you will build the ensembles or groups out of solo sampled instruments.



Great method ! Glad to hear that you've seemingly decided to do a complete "professional" library. And your timing couldn't have been better.


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## yellowstudio

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Now don't tell me that Berlin Woodwinds means that you got Albrecht Mayer to play oboe? >8o =o o/~ 

so long
Andreas


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer

No, we requested him to play the first Oboe but he had many concerts and bockings during the production and our Oboe recordings were pretty time expansive. 
But he was there and visited us during one of the recordings...  That was pretty impressive...


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## Cinesamples

You're going DOWN Hendrick!! 
Congrats and good luck.

+1 on Oboe taking forever to sample. Tough instrument! Same with English horn.


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## germancomponist

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Wed May 09 said:


> In BWW you will build the ensembles or groups out of solo sampled instruments.
> That has several benefits:
> - The ensemble will sound much more transparent and more lively and don´t tend to sound like a organ.
> - You´re able to create divided voices for each instrument group
> - much more control over the voices, the dynamic of each instrument and the vibrato
> 
> We made this concept for Flutes, Oboes, Clarinets and Bassoons.
> 
> A completely other field are special articulations, which need to be recorded in a group or typical orchestrations (like octivated flutes).
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



+1

This is the right way! o-[][]-o 

And: The flute sounds great!


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## Udo

CineSamples @ Thu May 10 said:


> You're going DOWN Hendrick!!


Hey CineSamples, if you want to be considered serious competition, you could start by trying to get Hendrik's name right. :wink:


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer

CineSamples @ 9th May said:


> You're going DOWN Hendrick!!
> Congrats and good luck.



hahaha, no Way :mrgreen: 

Looking forward to Cinewinds. Mike, I´m sure, the ethnic winds will be great!

Best,
Hendrik


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## Rob Elliott

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Lovely tone and 'air' around the instrument Hendrik. Congrats on this upcoming release. Very strong 'first look'. Now, how about that tech walk-thru on the oboe? :D 


(BTW - what 'tail' verb are you using on this short demo?)


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## Chriss Ons

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Really like the approach you seem to have taken with this library, Hendrik.
It looks/sounds very promising - I'm eager to find out more, to say the least!


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## StrangeCat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

you can sign me up! It sounds like it would be great with LASS!


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## Dominik Raab

Udo @ Wed 09 May said:


> CineSamples @ Thu May 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're going DOWN Hendrick!!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey CineSamples, if you want to be considered serious competition, you could start by trying to get Hendrik's name right. :wink:
Click to expand...


They've got their problems with German names. Dan's already got it, but whoever manages the vi-control.net account keeps calling me "Dominic" if I remember correctly :D

I'm looking forward to all the upcoming Woodwinds releases - I'm eager to try them all! If there's time I'll make a comparison thread here on vi-control. Would people like that?


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## EastWest Lurker

Dominik Raab @ Thu May 10 said:


> Udo @ Wed 09 May said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CineSamples @ Thu May 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're going DOWN Hendrick!!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey CineSamples, if you want to be considered serious competition, you could start by trying to get Hendrik's name right. :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've got their problems with German names. Dan's already got it, but whoever manages the vi-control.net account keeps calling me "Dominic" if I remember correctly :D
> 
> I'm looking forward to all the upcoming Woodwinds releases - I'm eager to try them all! If there's time I'll make a comparison thread here on vi-control. Would people like that?
Click to expand...


If you guys would just change to some good old American name spelling, we could eliminate this problem


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## Dominik Raab

EastWest Lurker @ Thu 10 May said:


> Dominik Raab @ Thu May 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Udo @ Wed 09 May said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CineSamples @ Thu May 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're going DOWN Hendrick!!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey CineSamples, if you want to be considered serious competition, you could start by trying to get Hendrik's name right. :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've got their problems with German names. Dan's already got it, but whoever manages the vi-control.net account keeps calling me "Dominic" if I remember correctly :D
> 
> I'm looking forward to all the upcoming Woodwinds releases - I'm eager to try them all! If there's time I'll make a comparison thread here on vi-control. Would people like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you guys would just change to some good old American name spelling, we could eliminate this problem
Click to expand...


Let me ask the German public offices if they'd like to change my name :D


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## yellowstudio

EastWest Lurker @ Thu 10 May said:


> Dominik Raab @ Thu May 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Udo @ Wed 09 May said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CineSamples @ Thu May 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're going DOWN Hendrick!!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey CineSamples, if you want to be considered serious competition, you could start by trying to get Hendrik's name right. :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've got their problems with German names. Dan's already got it, but whoever manages the vi-control.net account keeps calling me "Dominic" if I remember correctly :D
> 
> I'm looking forward to all the upcoming Woodwinds releases - I'm eager to try them all! If there's time I'll make a comparison thread here on vi-control. Would people like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you guys would just change to some good old American name spelling, we could eliminate this problem
Click to expand...


If you had citizenship over here, you could formally set up a petition for that. And why not ask for the abolition of the metric system at the same time? :lol: 

</hijack>

Hendrik, great to hear that Albrecht Mayer was your first choice for the oboe and not surprised at all that he's a busy guy. I'm sure you had more than adequate replacements. Very cool of him to drop by though. It's going to be a windy year, isn't it...

so long
Andreas


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## dannthr

How about HENDRIX Schwarzer?


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## Rob Elliott

dannthr @ Thu May 10 said:


> How about HENDRIX Schwarzer?




Sure - but he'll have to change his career to Formula 500 driver. :wink:


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## Casey Edwards

Rob Elliott @ Thu May 10 said:


> dannthr @ Thu May 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about HENDRIX Schwarzer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure - but he'll have to change his career to Formula 500 driver. :wink:
Click to expand...


OR HENDRIX Schwarzernegger and he could be the governor of California!


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## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

The control of the legato transition volume is really a wonderful thing here. When you raised the volume of the transitions in the video, the sound became so much smoother and much more expressive. FANTASTIC JOB!

Would love a video on the oboes and bassoons!


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

If you like Orchestral String Runs, I´m sure you´ll like Berlin Woodwinds too!

Here is a new video about the BWW Runs Builder:

http://youtu.be/sNddaEN2BKI


To answer the question if we have recorded ensembles:
Yes we have. As an addition to our divisi-concept, we´ve also recorded a clarinet-ensemble (a3) and a octivated flutes ensemble (a3 and a2 + Picc).
For special-artics like the Runs Builder, a real recorded group is much more realistic. But we´ve sampled true-legatos on these ensembles as well.
Nothing beats a real recorded octivated flutes-ensemble 

Best,
Hendrik


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## Hanu_H

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Sounding amazing and really interesting! This one is definitely the woodwind library I am most excited at the moment. Sounds like it has all I am after for my woodwind sections. Great job Hendrik!


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## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Very impressive Hendrik, and I'm happy to see that the Runs Builder is included and that it works so well with the strings. Looking forward to the product's release.


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## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

WOW, you've hit a home run ! _-)


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## artinro

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Sounds wonderful, Hendrik! Really looking forward to this library.


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## Graham Keitch

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Wed May 16 said:


> If you like Orchestral String Runs, I´m sure you´ll like Berlin Woodwinds too!
> 
> Here is a new video about the BWW Runs Builder:
> 
> http://youtu.be/sNddaEN2BKI
> 
> 
> To answer the question if we have recorded ensembles:
> Yes we have. As an addition to our divisi-concept, we´ve also recorded a clarinet-ensemble (a3) and a octivated flutes ensemble (a3 and a2 + Picc).
> For special-artics like the Runs Builder, a real recorded group is much more realistic. But we´ve sampled true-legatos on these ensembles as well.
> Nothing beats a real recorded octivated flutes-ensemble
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Hi Hendrik,

Will there also be a flute ensemble (a3 or a2) without Picc?

Also, what about oboe and bassoon ensembles?

Looking forward to this library very much.

Regards, Graham


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## EwigWanderer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Hello Hendrik,

Any news or some new demos on this? Preorder possibility perhaps?


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## pablo1980

Hi Hendrik, will the library have a trill simulator like the one on Sphere, I've been using it a lot, and it would be very nice to be able to use it with each instrument.
Thanks!


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## XcesSound

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

I will likely to get both so no fighting guys 8) :lol: :lol:


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## Dan Mott

wow........


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## HDJK

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Sounds really great! And the Teldex Berlin just happens to be my main IR in Altiverb for orchestral things, seems like the perfect match


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## jamwerks

With CWW Core out, and HOW seemingly close by, a little info about BWW (instruments, articulations, probable release date, etc.) would help us with our shopping lists !


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## EwigWanderer

jamwerks @ 6.27.2012 said:


> With CWW Core out, and HOW seemingly close by, a little info about BWW (instruments, articulations, probable release date, etc.) would help us with our shopping lists !



+1


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## JohannesR

EwigWanderer @ Wed Jun 27 said:


> jamwerks @ 6.27.2012 said:
> 
> 
> 
> With CWW Core out, and HOW seemingly close by, a little info about BWW (instruments, articulations, probable release date, etc.) would help us with our shopping lists !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1
Click to expand...


+2. Really dig the runs builder!


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## marcotronic

+3


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## leafInTheWind

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

+4 =o


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## MaestroRage

+5


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## Patrick de Caumette

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

More details about the library would certainly make commercial sense at this point...


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## Revson

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

...with pre-release discount price order capability?


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## Christian F. Perucchi

+ 7


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## José Herring

My biggest hope is that they don't boost the overall loudness of the samples and keep the dynamic range natural and intact with this product.

I know they'll do it will HOW. 

WW are almost impossible to place in an virtual orchestral setting if their dynamics have been tampered with.


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## Patrick de Caumette

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

---


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*

Hey Guys,

we´ve uploaded a full articulation chart and a new info page about Berlin Woodwinds on our website.

http://orchestraltools.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=148&Itemid=102

*Short facts:*

- True Legato in all instruments and ensembles
- Powerfull 8x RRs Staccatos and Staccatissimo patches
- more shorts like portatos, sfz,..
- playable runs
- Trills Orchestrator with up to 5th trills
- RUNS BUILDER
- up to 3 different vibrato styles
- Key and Wind noises

Have fun guys!!!

Best,
Hendrik


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## artinro

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*

Hendrik, 

That looks really fantastic! Any general idea when these might be available? Month, two months etc...

Looking forward to hearing more video examples from you too. The first two were terrific.


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## jleckie

I think the Vibrato STYLES is a very clever move. It's such an improvement over adding just 'more' or 'less' vibrato.


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## marcotronic

That's looking good! Will probably give this lib a try as I was quite disappointed with the Cinesamples Brass libs that still have issues (programming, tuning...) So I will definitely not get their winds.

Marco


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## mark812

marcotronic @ Wed Jun 27 said:


> That's looking good! Will probably give this lib a try as I was quite disappointed with the Cinesamples Brass libs that still have issues (programming, tuning...) So I will definitely not get their winds.
> 
> Marco



+1


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## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*

Thanks for the info. Lots of good news in there !

Runs, trill orchestrator (up to a 5th!) & multiple solo instruments really set this library apart. A look at the articulation list shows you've been complete.

Definite buy for me.

The "missing" alto flute, bass clarinette & contrebassoon will have to come from CWW Pro or HOW.


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## George Caplan

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*

hi hendrik

i must have missed the list of instruments.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*

go to his link and look under Artic Chart


----------



## MaestroRage

was there pricing information available anywhere?


----------



## JohannesR

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds"*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Wed Jun 27 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> we´ve uploaded a full articulation chart and a new info page about Berlin Woodwinds on our website.
> 
> http://orchestraltools.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=148&Itemid=102
> 
> *Short facts:*
> 
> - True Legato in all instruments and ensembles
> - Powerfull 8x RRs Staccatos and Staccatissimo patches
> - more shorts like portatos, sfz,..
> - playable runs
> - Trills Orchestrator with up to 5th trills
> - RUNS BUILDER
> - up to 3 different vibrato styles
> - Key and Wind noises
> 
> Have fun guys!!!
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



AWESOME! SOLD! SOLD! SOLD!


----------



## mpalenik

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*

Is this library going to be for Kontakt 4 or Kontakt 5?

I was seriously thinking about getting the Cinesamples library, which looks awesome, but it only has one soloist per instrument (and no sections). I suppose I could layer it with the old Kontakt based VSL stuff I have, but the patch list of this library just looks spectacular. I hope we get more info (like pricing) before the CineWinds pre-order is over.


----------



## Consona

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*

_Portatos, sfz,.. _(what's behind those dots? )_, runs, trills, 3 different vibrato styles, Key and Wind noises._ Wow, can't wait to hear some solo performance mock-up.


----------



## Winslow

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*

WOW, WOW, WOW!!! This artic chart is amazing! _-) 
I was pretty sure that the sound will be great - as for OSR and SPHERE but I was not expecting so many articulations and so many instruments!

I'm totally SOLD - eh, wait a minute - price?


----------



## handz

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*

Im not sure if it was discussed - so, will the Run Builder have exactly same runs aviable as the Strings Run Builder, so you will be able to do simultanous runs? (sorry if it is obvious, just want to be sure this will be really as amazing as it seems)

price Price PRICE?


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*



> Im not sure if it was discussed - so, will the Run Builder have exactly same runs aviable as the Strings Run Builder, so you will be able to do simultanous runs? (sorry if it is obvious, just want to be sure this will be really as amazing as it seems)



Yes, it does. Hendrik mentioned that in a video on facebook. It is available for Carinet and Flute 8va-Ensemble.


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*

It has quite few more instruments than Cinebrass Core, so I would guess that it's going to be a fair amount more expensive. Even so, looking forward to hearing it all as one package so to speak.


----------



## mpalenik

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*



paulcole @ Thu Jun 28 said:


> It has quite few more instruments than Cinebrass Core, so I would guess that it's going to be a fair amount more expensive.



That's what I'm worried about. I wonder if they offer student discounts. Regardless, I hope we can get some pricing info soon. This library looks awesome!


----------



## adg21

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*

I thought EastWest and Spitfire were the only ones offering educational discounts?


----------



## mpalenik

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*



adg21 @ Thu Jun 28 said:


> I thought EastWest and Spitfire were the only ones offering educational discounts?


Sometimes you just have to ask.


----------



## Christian F. Perucchi

Demos? pricing? any news?


----------



## George Caplan

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*



Craig Sharmat @ Wed Jun 27 said:


> go to his link and look under Artic Chart



thank you. that looks a comprehensive collection although i was hoping for some low clarinets.


----------



## radec

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*

excited for this, really really hope its not outside my price range! sounds like theres 100gb of samples though but hopefully not expensive!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*

Hey Guys,

Berlin Woodwinds is now at NI for encoding and will be released on August, 8th
and we´re happy to announce that our first "Splitted Pre-Order" has started today!!

Splitted Pre-Order. What´s that??
It´s pretty simple... 

Full Price: $699.-
Pre-order I (ends on July, 19th): $549.-
Pre-Order II (starts July, 19th - Release): $599.-
If you´re living outside the E.U. your pre-order price today would be $461,34

http://orchestraltools.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=148&Itemid=102

During the pre-order we´ll post several training videos where we explain the features of BWW in detail.

And we would like to show you our new video "Creating Berlin Woodwinds" with some pretty cool insights in how BWW was recorded.

http://youtu.be/7yUXQPZjehg


All the best,

Hendrik


----------



## Chriss Ons

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

Hendrik, I think the pricing is very sensible for a library of this kind and will seriously consider pre-ordering. Hope to hear more demos soon. 
(and 53 GB? Wow. Hefty download...)


----------



## handz

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

I must say I was hoping price will be around 400$.... t $700 for WW looks bit too much to me, damn EW and their play...


----------



## FriFlo

Considering the preorder price is about 50% higher than the current cinewinds price, while the content is at least 4 times as detailed and comprehensive, I would call this a good deal! I guess it all comes down to some more walk throughs I want to see, then I'll probably be sold!!!


----------



## José Herring

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*



handz @ Thu Jul 05 said:


> I must say I was hoping price will be around 400$.... t $700 for WW looks bit too much to me, damn EW and their play...



This looks like a monster library though. I'm saving final judgement for demos and such, but I'm excited. It finally looks like somebody took the time to do WW right!

This I would seriously consider paying for even if the price where doubled. Runs builders, playable runs, legato, woodwinds in twos, the list is outstanding.

But the proof will be in the demos.


----------



## pablo1980

I would be much to ask for a bass clarinet upgrade after the release?
I would be awesome!


----------



## marcotronic

I guess this is really worth the price but unfortunately completely out of my range. I, too, was hoping for something in the OSR 2 price range.

Gonna stay with my VSL special edition WW.

Good luck, though.

Marco


----------



## Maestro77

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

Arg. While I'm sure all the hard work put into this library justifies the price tag, I just can't justify spending that much on woodwinds. <$400 and I'm sold... unfortunately will have to pass on this one.


----------



## mark812

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*



Maestro77 @ Thu Jul 05 said:


> Arg. While I'm sure all the hard work put into this library justifies the price tag, I just can't justify spending that much on woodwinds. <$400 and I'm sold... unfortunately will have to pass on this one.



+1.

I'll be sticking with VSL.


----------



## handz

I also do not get how if Im in EU I have to pay tax and if not I do not need to - with cinesamples it is otherwise, I have to pay when Im noutside US.


----------



## EwigWanderer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

There's nothing wrong with the price. 8RR, divisi, runs etc... Great library indeed! I will get this for sure =o


----------



## StrangeCat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" ARTIC CHART + INFO PAGE ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Jul 05 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Berlin Woodwinds is now at NI for encoding and will be released on August, 8th
> and we´re happy to announce that our first "Splitted Pre-Order" has started today!!
> 
> Splitted Pre-Order. What´s that??
> It´s pretty simple...
> 
> Full Price: $699.-
> Pre-order I (ends on July, 19th): $549.-
> Pre-Order II (starts July, 19th - Release): $599.-
> If you´re living outside the E.U. your pre-order price today would be $461,34
> 
> http://orchestraltools.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=148&Itemid=102
> 
> During the pre-order we´ll post several training videos where we explain the features of BWW in detail.
> 
> And we would like to show you our new video "Creating Berlin Woodwinds" with some pretty cool insights in how BWW was recorded.
> 
> http://youtu.be/7yUXQPZjehg
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Hendrik



Alright man explain to me why there will be no DVD.


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

I'm convinced this will be a great woodwinds library. Good luck to Hendrik with the launch in August.

There's no chance that I will be buying a woodwind library for $700 plus VAT though. I just can't justify that and don't use woodwinds enough to even contemplate it sadly.


----------



## handz

Now it start to be hard to decide - discussion around Cinewinds totally died and there were lot of complaints from experienced users - which bit bummed me as I was excited to get it. 

BWW have great potential and jsut runs builder is great thing to have but price is more than 2x of CW and VSL winds are not so expensive too

HWW will be probably cool lib but PLAY..and this pretty mutch discards it from any choices for me..


----------



## EwigWanderer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*



paulcole @ 7.5.2012 said:


> There's no chance that I will be buying a woodwind library for $700 plus VAT though. I just can't justify that and don't use woodwinds enough to even contemplate it sadly.



$699 includes VAT


----------



## MA-Simon

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

Any chance for a light version with only one of each WW Instrumets without the duplicates? Something like Lass first chair maybe?


----------



## lamandolina

or a Student discount like EW


----------



## 667

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

I think $460 (pre order price for non EU customers) is quite fair-- this is a big project, 100GB of samples, divisi, etc. as well as the runs/trills builders, solo and sections, etc. It just seems like a very complete offering, and very competitive when you compare the top-of-the-line editions of the other WW libraries released this year.


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

lamandolina @ 5.7.2012 said:


> or a Student discount like EW


a student discount like EW is totally crap - do you really want a edu license that does not allow to use the samples commercially?


----------



## MaestroRage

rocking.xmas.man @ Thu Jul 05 said:


> lamandolina @ 5.7.2012 said:
> 
> 
> 
> or a Student discount like EW
> 
> 
> 
> a student discount like EW is totally crap - do you really want a edu license that does not allow to use the samples commercially?
Click to expand...


+1. I mean if it's just for educational use i'm certain there are cheaper/easier libraries to use. Seems a bit overkill to get this purely for non commercial use.

That said if Adagio has taught me one thing it's to not pre-order right away! I will wait for demos/videos and see for myself what kind of monster sleeps under the hood. More then likely snagging it though.


----------



## dedersen

I don't really get the comments about the price. This seems a LOT more comprehensive than CineWinds so comparing the price of those two directly is a bit unfair. Looking forward to more videos, Hendrik, I have been quite excited about what I have seen so far.


----------



## MaestroRage

Plus if you take into consideration CineWinds and CineWinds pro the price point is about the same actually.


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*



EwigWanderer @ Thu Jul 05 said:


> paulcole @ 7.5.2012 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's no chance that I will be buying a woodwind library for $700 plus VAT though. I just can't justify that and don't use woodwinds enough to even contemplate it sadly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $699 includes VAT
Click to expand...



Even including VAT I just couldn't justify approximately £450 on a woodwind library. In my case, it's not just a question of any price comparison with anyone else's libraries. For the amount of times I use winds in any detail, I am better off getting VSL single instrument downloads at 50 or 60 euros a kick and I doubt if I would need a full version of any single woodwind instrument either. The days of plonking down a lot of dosh on samples I probably won't use in anyway comprehensibly are long gone.

Looking forward to hearing it though.


----------



## mpalenik

lamandolina @ Thu Jul 05 said:


> or a Student discount like EW



Contact them directly. The do offer this, although not nearly as big as EW's discount.


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

I think the price is fair. This an amazingly comprehensive library! This is definitely on my list, congratulations!


----------



## suomynona

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

Not sure if there's such a thing as a fair price... the price is what it is.

This is a little more expensive than I was hoping for so I'll have to wait and think about this one. Was hoping for similar pricing to the other libraries. IMO would be great if there was a greater discount for customers owning both OSR and Sphere.

All the best with this Hendrik.


----------



## clonewar

I think the pre order price is good (for those outside of the EU). That said, I'm really hoping for more in depth videos before the initial pre order period ends.


----------



## Kleven1111

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

Looks and sounds amazing. I just preordered.
Congrats!


----------



## rJames

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

Are the mic positions per mixed on this lib?

I hope so! I hate wasting 3 voices per note as in other libs. I want expert ears to optimize the mix for maximum flexibility.


----------



## bwherry

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*



Kleven1111 @ Thu Jul 05 said:


> Looks and sounds amazing. I just preordered.
> Congrats!



+1


----------



## JB78

With the pre-order discount the price is more than fair I think. Seems like a really well thought out and produced library. Another factor is that it's complete from the get-go so no Pro-upgrade needed later on. I will definitely order my copy before the 19th


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

@rjames:
Yes, we´ve a "MIX" position, which is a well balanced mix of the M50s Decca Tree and the close mics.


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

"100 GB"? As a download?? Really? How many days of downloading will that take and are most ISPs going to allow it? Certainly a concern. Also if someone from a foreign country was to order a boxed version, the price would skyrocket due to duty and import taxes. So one concern is how to get the "100 GB" mentioned above on to my computer.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

Hi Hendrik,

Seems like a very modest price. Was there as special pre-order price for owners of your other products?

Congrats ! o-[][]-o


----------



## ysnyvz

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*



playz123 @ Fri Jul 06 said:


> "100 GB"? As a download?? Really? How many days of downloading will that take and are most ISPs going to allow it? Certainly a concern. Also if someone from a foreign country was to order a boxed version, the price would skyrocket due to duty and import taxes. So one concern is how to get the "100 GB" mentioned above on to my computer.



it is 53 GB with compression


----------



## rJames

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Jul 06 said:


> @rjames:
> Yes, we´ve a "MIX" position, which is a well balanced mix of the M50s Decca Tree and the close mics.



We may have a translation problem. It sounds like you are saying that I still have to stream out a live mix. 2 stereo voices for each note.

Or is the well balanced mix premixed into a single stereo voice?

Also, when can we hear demos? Please let us hear the instruments soloed. We all know that there will be small flaws but it would be great to know what the instruments sound like and how well the legato works, etc.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

no, its a pre-mixed version. So you just have 1 stereo output if you want. It´s great too for several tempo synced patches, because the TimeMachine Pro works at it best at a lower polyphony. So you have several positive things with the MIX option. But of course you can also mix the different mics by your own.

Demos and videos will follow during the splitted pre-order special 

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## rJames

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

Excellent. Looking forward to more.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

Would the full version of Kontakt 5 give me any further possibilities with BWW?


----------



## snattack

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

I'm close to ordering, but I'd need to hear a demo first. Anything in progress there?

Best,
A


----------



## MaestroRage

if i'm not mistaken K5 player has the same capability as full retail. Full retail merely comes with sample content and the ability to produce/twea settings. The player would not let you go into the patch and tweak things.


----------



## inmusi

I am currently running kontakt 4.2.3 right now, and BWW requires kontakt 5 I believe.

Can I just download the kontakt 5 player from their website or do I have to upgrade to kontakt 5 full version. I use Cubase 6


thanks


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

Wonderful introductory movie for BWW, Hendrik. Very well made, and it was nice to meet some of the musicians and engineers, plus hear from a Neumann rep. (I've been using Neumann mics for years). The studio looks like a fabulous place to record, and the whole movie was very professionally done. Thank you providing an excellent introduction to BWW. And as one person mentioned on the YouTube site, the animation at the end was fabulous!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" PRE-ORDER STARTED + NEW VIDEO*

Hey Guys, I´ve made a new video, which starts a whole series about the main features of BWW.

*This is chapter I: Short Notes*

http://youtu.be/cHIah5KA2wE


@playz123: Thank you for the kind words on the documentary. Teldex is really such a great studio to work and I was really suprised when I first heared the acoustic there.

@inmusi: BWW will be supported by the free Kontakt Player 5. So you don´t need any sampler to buy. If you have Kontakt 5 full, you can go into the instruments and edit the mapping or what ever. But K5 Player supports BWW completely.

Best,

Hendrik


----------



## jleckie

Wow. Teldex IS a really nice sound. Nice work Hendrik. Very intelligently put together. Love the staccato options in mouthing.


----------



## ryanstrong

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Sounds beautiful. Waiting for additional videos to draw any sort of conclusion but I'm deffinitely more intrigued with BWW then I was with CineWinds.

Great work!


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Hendrik,

Sounds great. So glad you've gone the extra mile with the wealth of shorts and all the control features. So far it seems you've outclassed the others.

Can't wait to start using it !!


----------



## ryanstrong

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Outclassed, good word! This is why I love that there are competitors in this market. A push for a better product.


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

GRRRRREAT! I Love the flute and bassoon staccatissimos!
Now, I only need to hear anything from the oboes (legato, if possible) and I am SOLD ...


----------



## FriFlo

What is also great about the Teldex recording is that this is available as impulse and in Vienna Mir, so we can compare them and match the missing instruments, like Bass Clarinet. I am really looking forward to be able to do a decent AB comparision between a real recording at Teldex vs VSL samples in Mir ...


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Sounds really good so far.


----------



## MigueldOliveira

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

No other library has come close to what these guys have done to the woodwinds.
Absolutely top job!!

Even composers who don't write for woodwinds should buy it.


----------



## FriFlo

REPEAT! A MESSAGE FOR REPEAT:

You should have been more patient ...


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Hendrik,

I'm really looking forward to all the coming videos showcasing all the features. Among the first things I'd be interested in hearing are the different mic's. There seems to be quite a bit of spot mic's mixed-in, in this first video. I for one would like to hear more (and only) the decca tree.

As for changing between the various articulations, having the possibility to change between all the different shorts with a cc (as opposed to ks's) would be great.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

@jamwerks: We´re working on an Articulation Performer, which allows you to play several artics over one Midi-Channel e.g.. When it´s ready, it will be a very flexible tool. The whole concept of the organisation of the artics will fit to nearly every kind of template or workflow. That´s the idea behind that. I will do a video about that and this tool will be available with the release of BWW.

Of course, I can show you the different mic options in one of the next videos.

Thanks to everyone for the kind words :D 

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## snattack

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Convincing enough, I've placed my order!

I was about to buy OSR and Sphere at the sale, but missed it with a couple of hours =( any upcoming sales of those?

Best,
A


----------



## dedersen

Hendrik, is there any sort of auto-divisi* functionality that can automatically assign notes to the individual flute patches if multiple notes are played at the same time? A la what LASS does.

* Yeah, yeah, not the proper term for woodwinds, but I am sure you all know what I am refering to.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

@dedersen: No problem - I think the word divisi is the right word to explain what we all mean :mrgreen: 

No, BWW has no auto divisi script at the moment. Maybe we can do that in an update of the Articulation Performer.


----------



## inmusi

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Do I have to create an account on the Orchestral tools website to purchase the product? Also, when I add BWW to the cart, it only gives me the $549 option, not the $461 option (I live outside of the EU) what do I have to do to ensure I pay only $461?

thanks


----------



## dedersen

Btw, the shorts in the latest video sound absolutely gorgeous. And I love the attention to detail you have quite clearly put into this. The flute staccatisimos blew me away.


----------



## jamwerks

dedersen @ Sat Jul 07 said:


> Hendrik, is there any sort of auto-divisi* functionality that can automatically assign notes to the individual flute patches if multiple notes are played at the same time? A la what LASS does.



Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure if we would really want an "auto-div." feature for WW's. In LASS (which I don't yet have), I think you go from an a16 patch (for one note playing) to 2 a8 patches (for 2 notes) etc, which mirrors what happens in a real string section.

But how would an "auto-div." work for a Flute or Oboe section? I see that we'll have an a3 Clarinet group, but wouldn't that be used for dedicated unison a3 lines, not continual "unisons & divisions".

I'll undoubtedly have 3 tracks for my flute section, 1 each for Picc., Fl. 1 & Fl. 2.
For an a2 in the flutes, I'll probably just copy and paste the midi info. Since Hendrik has given us real second and third instrument samples, there shouldn't be any phasing.

It'll be interesting to hear if identical lines in Flutes 1 & 2 yeilds a real a2 sound !!


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

This library is going to be very hard to beat. Sounds wonderful so far, and for once I really like a Kontakt interface and controls. It's also nice to see each musician's picture featured in the patches in which he or she participated. It personalizes the sometimes sterile environment we face when using computers, and acknowledges the importance of the musician to the library. I'm sure this library will encourage many composers to rethink how they use woodwinds and perhaps even encourage us to use them more often and more prominently now.  Looking forward to the release date.


----------



## 667

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Those demo shorts were very convincing. Pre-ordered!


----------



## Robg

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

inmusi

when you create an account or logon with an existing account, the system recognises your location outside the EU and updates the cart accordingly.


----------



## inmusi

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

awesome thanks for the reply...

just gonna wait for some legato demos/examples


----------



## NIGHTNEO

Awesome works, Hendrik.
It is unexpectedly.
Woodwinds are released in succession from each company, BWW may also become the most wonderful work in them.

I want to hear early other demos.


----------



## dfhagai

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

This one looks like a totall killer!
Price looks totally decent to.
Excellent work you guys, the GUI is* beautifully *designed and layed out.
I want it so bad...................................


----------



## Hanu_H

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Sounds good! I love the dynamic "meter" on the center. Why haven't the other companies thought that before.? It totally makes sense. Especially with LASS and CineBrass it would work really well. I always see comments about demos that you are using too high dynamic layer and thats why it sounds bad. I think thats one of the things every developer should add to their library. I want this!


----------



## Udo

Hendrik, rather than just providing a single 53GB download process, .....

please make sure it can also be dowloaded in smaller components, with the installer being able to install those individual components independently.


----------



## dfhagai

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Will there be a student discount?
My Virtual Orchestration students will love this one.....


----------



## re-peat

FriFlo @ Sat Jul 07 said:


> REPEAT! A MESSAGE FOR REPEAT:
> You should have been more patient ...


Fri, you seem to think that I regret buying CineWinds. And you also assume that CineWinds ate up my entire 'virtual woodwinds'-budget for the summer, yes? 
You are very much mistaken on both counts, I’m afraid.

_


----------



## hbuus

Udo @ Sun Jul 08 said:


> Hendrik, rather than just providing a single 53GB download process, .....
> 
> please make sure it can also be dowloaded in smaller components, with the installer being able to install those individual components independently.



Can't you just use a download manager?


----------



## Udo

hbuus @ Mon Jul 09 said:


> Udo @ Sun Jul 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hendrik, rather than just providing a single 53GB download process, .....
> 
> please make sure it can also be dowloaded in smaller components, with the installer being able to install those individual components independently.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you just use a download manager?
Click to expand...

I need to be able to split the download over several days.


----------



## FriFlo

The continuata downloader can pick up the download at any time.

@Re-Peat: Just a little joke, since your posts caused quite some uprise ... no pun intended!  I will be lucky to just purchase one WW library, but I am pretty sure the Cinesamples library makes a perfect addition to BWW - especially the pro package with those missing intruments. I am afraid, I will stick with VSL for those, though. Indeed, more a budget decision at this point!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

The download package will be splitted into several rar-parts. Normaly we had 10 rar parts. Not sure how many parts we´ll do for BWW.

@inmusi: The VAT will be discounted in the last step after the PayPal processing. the same thing for E.U. customers with VAT ID. 

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## dfhagai

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Pushing BUY IT never felt so goood


----------



## George Caplan

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

hey hendrik before i buy this i would like to hear the oboe especially in legat mode. any chance any time soon? george.


----------



## Cat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

yes, me too  Different mic mixes too...



George Caplan @ Mon Jul 09 said:


> hey hendrik before i buy this i would like to hear the oboe especially in legat mode. any chance any time soon? george.


----------



## Tanuj Tiku

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

What is that up-front noise in the samples? Some sort of distortion....

Is that because it is in beta? 


Thanks.

Tanuj.


----------



## handz

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*



vibrato @ Mon Jul 09 said:


> What is that up-front noise in the samples? Some sort of distortion....
> 
> Is that because it is in beta?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Tanuj.



oh c´mon, so even this lib sounds bad? I dont think it is beta, release is in a month.


----------



## Hanu_H

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

I can't hear any distortion. Maybe it's your computer?


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

YouTube audio compression is not the best, especialy for woodwinds...
Depends on the playback quality as well.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

My rule is to never ever completely judge the quality of a product like BWW based just on what I hear on YouTube and especially SoundCloud.  Compression is necessary, but can also murder some audio examples. Even screen capture programs like Camtasia can produce false impressions.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

After many requests:

Bass Clarinet and Contra Bassoon is on our list now as one of our next projects!

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Justus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Sweet sound, Hendrik!

A question regarding the short notes video:
The 2nd Bassoon stacc somehow sound cut off to me (2nd Basson stacc shorts sounds fine!).
Why is that? Is there some legato simulation going on?



Looking forward to your next video!


----------



## Chriss Ons

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Preordered.



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ 9th July said:


> Bass Clarinet and Contra Bassoon is on our list now as one of our next projects!



..way to go, Hendrik!


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*



Justus @ Mon Jul 09 said:


> Sweet sound, Hendrik!
> 
> A question regarding the short notes video:
> The 2nd Bassoon stacc somehow sound cut off to me (2nd Basson stacc shorts sounds fine!).
> Why is that? Is there some legato simulation going on?



I heard that too. It has a sort of choppy sound. Otherwise it sounds fantastic!


----------



## EvilGrandmother

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

So i have to use multiple channels for each articulation like in the old days?


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*



vibrato @ Mon Jul 09 said:


> What is that up-front noise in the samples? Some sort of distortion....
> 
> Is that because it is in beta?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Tanuj.



I hear the same thing you are, esp. if you are talking about 2:22 > 2:34. But that isn't distortion; it's how the flute sounds when played f > fff

Cheers.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

@EvilGrandmother: No, there will be an Articulation Performer. You can play all artics over 1 midi channel, except the Runs Builder. I will show you that in an upcoming video.

@Justus: Yes, they are sometimes cutted of. All normal staccatos in BWW are controllable in it´s length, because they all have it´s own release samples. When you release a note, the sample will be stopped and the release sample will be played. I had the release-volume too quiet in this demo. I think that´s the problem in this example. If you want, you can playback the samples in its full length like the most other libraries do with staccatos. But I like this kind of flexibility.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

ah - that's why the shorts in OSR and Symphonic Sphere behave that way. maybe it would be worth a thought to make the behaviour switchable


----------



## Tanuj Tiku

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

It is probably a Youtube issue as I have in fact noticed it on other videos sometimes.

I have Orchestral tools Runs and the quality on that is really good so I am sure, woodwinds are going to be the same.

Nice stuff Henrik! I definitely like this better than Cinewinds. 

Good luck!


Regards,

Tanuj.


----------



## Justus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Jul 09 said:


> If you want, you can playback the samples in its full length like the most other libraries do with staccatos.



Ah, that's a good thing.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Jul 09 said:


> After many requests:
> 
> Bass Clarinet and Contra Bassoon is on our list now as one of our next projects!
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



That's really great news. Sorry for insisting :mrgreen: but....

If you do: Alto Flute, E-flat Clar, Bass Clar & Contrabassoon, you'll be totally complete (and I wouldn't have to order also HOW). >8o

What do you say?


----------



## EvilGrandmother

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Jul 09 said:


> @EvilGrandmother: No, there will be an Articulation Performer. You can play all artics over 1 midi channel, except the Runs Builder. I will show you that in an upcoming video.



Thanks im looking forward to it.


----------



## flashman

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

+1 on Alto flute Eb Clar Bass Clar and Contra Bassoon


----------



## dfhagai

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

+1


----------



## FriFlo

I must say, I am pretty happy with only the essential WWs being in that package, but very complete in their articulations and divisi etc ...
Those instruments you wish are all solo intruments and for this VSL is very decent (except maybe the english horn, which could be a little better). You can even use the Teldex venue in Mir or Altiverb to get them in the same stage! If BWW will be successful, I am pretty sure, there will be an extension set for sure. Until then I can live with the VSL versions.


----------



## Igor

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*



George Caplan @ Mon Jul 09 said:


> hey hendrik before i buy this i would like to hear the oboe especially in legat mode. any chance any time soon? george.



+1


----------



## George Caplan

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

great on the extra winds. any sounds on the oboes?


----------



## handz

FriFlo @ Tue Jul 10 said:


> I must say, I am pretty happy with only the essential WWs being in that package, but very complete in their articulations and divisi etc ...
> Those instruments you wish are all solo intruments and for this VSL is very decent (except maybe the english horn, which could be a little better). You can even use the Teldex venue in Mir or Altiverb to get them in the same stage! If BWW will be successful, I am pretty sure, there will be an extension set for sure. Until then I can live with the VSL versions.



exactly


----------



## DDK

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

It would be great to be able to keyswitch into the runs
Is that possible? Is it planed?

Thanks


----------



## ryanstrong

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Im sure you are working on this, but I am very interested in seeing additional screen casts!


----------



## EwigWanderer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Can't wait to get this. Pre-order:Done!


----------



## JohannesR

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Jul 09 said:


> After many requests:
> 
> Bass Clarinet and Contra Bassoon is on our list now as one of our next projects!
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



You just took away my only reason for not buying BWW.

Pre-ordered!


----------



## lamandolina

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Ok, I'm in!
Waiting in Buenos Aires!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*

Hey Guys,

Chapter II screencast video is online!

It´s about one of the most important things in working with woodwinds:
Runs and fast lines. Showing the tempo synced scale runs, RUNS BUILDER and the playable runs in action.

http://youtu.be/o3v9ezzFhyo

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

The more I hear, the more I like !! _-)


----------



## FredrikJonasson

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

Sounds really great! Looking forward to the chapter showing the legato, since I for some reason was not very impressed by it in some earlier video. I hope I was mistaken :D


----------



## Chriss Ons

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ 12th July said:


> Hey Guys,
> Chapter II screencast video is online!
> http://youtu.be/o3v9ezzFhyo



Impressive, Hendrik... this is going to be an outstanding library.
And I'm so glad to hear you made it fully compatible with Orchestral String Runs and Symphonic Sphere, too.


----------



## utopia

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*



FredrikJonasson @ Thu Jul 12 said:


> Sounds really great! Looking forward to the chapter showing the legato, since I for some reason was not very impressed by it in some earlier video. I hope I was mistaken :D


Same here


----------



## George Caplan

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

theres a bit of oboe in that video but only in the runs and its hard to pick it out. when is the legat videos on all the instruments coming hendrik?  

sounds real good up so far.


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

Hendrik,

Thanks for the video. You obviously put a lot of thought and work into this library and it is really shaping up to be a great competitor.

But like we heard a little bit in the shorts video, there is a noticeable cut-off in the sound when you play the "playable runs" patches. This makes the transitioned notes have a very noticeable choppiness that makes it sound as if some of the notes are not reverberating at all within the wonderful Teldex stage. (in other words, many of the notes sounds like they're suddenly being played in a closet because your programming cuts off the note before it can reverberate even a little bit) It is quite distracting and I hope you will consider addressing this in a future update.

I hope to see some legato details before the first part of the pre-order is over. Cheers.


----------



## synthetic

Will there be more legato demos before the 19th?


----------



## adg21

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

Can you briefly show the legatos of each wind instrument before the pre-order? Thanks


----------



## inmusi

+1 on the legato demos before preorder date is over...


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*



noxtenebrae17 @ Thu Jul 12 said:


> But like we heard a little bit in the shorts video, there is a noticeable cut-off in the sound when you play the "playable runs" patches. This makes the transitioned notes have a very noticeable choppiness that makes it sound as if some of the notes are not reverberating at all within the wonderful Teldex stage. (in other words, many of the notes sounds like they're suddenly being played in a closet because your programming cuts off the note before it can reverberate even a little bit) It is quite distracting and I hope you will consider addressing this in a future update.



I listened to the video again and that is correct and very noticeable. I was wondering if indeed that could be corrected. It's as if the reverb gets turned off and on again between the opening and last note of the run in the playable patches.


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

With legato intervals that fast I'm not sure there's a whole lot you can do. If you could get perfect results with that playable runs patch, then there would be no reason to even create a runs builder or have pre-recorded runs. With a bit of reverb I think it would fit in a mix quite well.


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*



Blakus @ Fri Jul 13 said:


> With legato intervals that fast I'm not sure there's a whole lot you can do. If you could get perfect results with that playable runs patch, then there would be no reason to even create a runs builder or have pre-recorded runs. With a bit of reverb I think it would fit in a mix quite well.



True. But does that not defeat the object of the Teldex sound? And what about mixing that reverb that you could add to the Teldex stage? Perhaps it doesn't matter in a mix.


----------



## Ed

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*



paulcole @ Fri Jul 13 said:


> True. But does that not defeat the object of the Teldex sound? And what about mixing that reverb that you could add to the Teldex stage? Perhaps it doesn't matter in a mix.



Dont you ever add reverb to ambient samples?


----------



## mark812

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*



Ed @ Fri Jul 13 said:


> paulcole @ Fri Jul 13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> True. But does that not defeat the object of the Teldex sound? And what about mixing that reverb that you could add to the Teldex stage? Perhaps it doesn't matter in a mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont you ever add reverb to ambient samples?
Click to expand...


Exactly, 99% of us will add a reverb tail on top of everything, even when working with quite wet libraries like Albion or CS. Teldex is just like Sony, a scoring stage which sounds gorgeous but much drier than Lyndhurst Hall etc.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*



noxtenebrae17 @ Thu Jul 12 said:


> there is a noticeable cut-off in the sound when you play the "playable runs" patches. This makes the transitioned notes have a very noticeable choppiness... (in other words, many of the notes sounds like they're suddenly being played in a closet because your programming cuts off the note before it can reverberate even a little bit)...



Sounds like they're suddenly being played in a closet? :shock: What do you mean by that?

The end of the playable runs patches are maybe a bit cut off, but I'm thinking that this allows all the different patches to fit together (a complete run is often made up of two pieces).


----------



## 667

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

I hear it too-- it sounds like the release samples are missing. I'm suspicious it's just a bug in the patch/programming, because Orchestral Tools has often referred to their sampling philosophy as trying to capture "the sounds between notes" and those do seem to be missing from the playable runs. But perhaps Hendrik will confirm.


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*



Ed @ Fri Jul 13 said:


> paulcole @ Fri Jul 13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> True. But does that not defeat the object of the Teldex sound? And what about mixing that reverb that you could add to the Teldex stage? Perhaps it doesn't matter in a mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont you ever add reverb to ambient samples?
Click to expand...


Can't you hear what we're talking about? The adding of reverb is an entirely separate issue.


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*



667 @ Fri Jul 13 said:


> I hear it too-- it sounds like the release samples are missing. I'm suspicious it's just a bug in the patch/programming, because Orchestral Tools has often referred to their sampling philosophy as trying to capture "the sounds between notes" and those do seem to be missing from the playable runs. But perhaps Hendrik will confirm.



+1


----------



## synthetic

Perhaps the Time Machine algorithm is time compressing the reverb decay, so you might hear this at some tempi more than others?


----------



## rJames

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

I'm interested in hearing the runs with the release samples on too.

Plus, is the "wind volume" knob on all the articulations or just the shorts?

I'd love to have a bass clarinet too. How long before you can have that done, do you think?


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

Will you be doing the Bass Clarinet and Contrabassoon before or after BOB (Berlin Orchestral Brass)? :mrgreen:


----------



## paulcole

synthetic @ Fri Jul 13 said:


> Perhaps the Time Machine algorithm is time compressing the reverb decay, so you might hear this at some tempi more than others?



I thought these were the playable patches being played and not the pre recorded run samples.


----------



## FriFlo

There are playable runs patches as well! The runs builder is a unique approach. Watch the OSR videos on their website to see what it is ...


----------



## paulcole

FriFlo @ Sun Jul 15 said:


> There are playable runs patches as well! The runs builder is a unique approach. Watch the OSR videos on their website to see what it is ...



I have OSR.

In the video that I have now spent far too much time on for your interest : -

43 secs in. Pre recorded runs sound fine.

1.53 in . Fine but slightly dry

2.25 in. Fine

2.41 in. Fine

Runs Builder. Fine

5.11 in. Flute runs are dry

6.02. Dry.

All I'm trying to get to, is to find out if it's my headphones or is there something wrong with my hearing. Or is there a programming issue that needs to be looked at?


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

Hope the legato video comes out before the first phase preorder! :mrgreen:


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

paulcole @ 16.7.2012 said:


> 1.53 in . Fine but slightly dry



in OSR its the same - you only hear the whole reverb tail of the stage if you press the key long enough.



> 5.11 in. Flute runs are dry



this may be an issue with the release sample-volume, as there is a knob for it. I guess this knob will be pretty important when using the library. i'm already thinking it may be a good idea to assign it to the modwheel, so the dynamics and the release are controlled together. 



> 6.02. Dry.



does not sound really dry to me, i think it's quite okay, but not sounding the way, the recorded scale runs are sounding - but there are several patches played at the same time so i'm not sure. in the accents patch the release samples seem not to be controllable - maybe this causes some sharpness


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*



Blakus @ Mon Jul 16 said:


> Hope the legato video comes out before the first phase preorder! :mrgreen:



+ 1

I actually need to hear the oboe legato before ordering ... and ordering definitely means 1rst phase pre-order, otherwise it will be to expensive for me at ATM.


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

Any legato video would be good. It's July the 16th so 3 days.........


----------



## Igor

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*



FriFlo @ Mon Jul 16 said:


> Blakus @ Mon Jul 16 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope the legato video comes out before the first phase preorder! :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> + 1
> 
> I actually need to hear the oboe legato before ordering ... and ordering definitely means 1rst phase pre-order, otherwise it will be to expensive for me at ATM.
Click to expand...


+1 more
Ditto on everything you just said.


----------



## inmusi

+1!

Everything in the library so far according to the vids looks great. Would love to hear some Legato demos though before the pre-order date


----------



## gungnir

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

It certainly would be nice to have the opportunity to hear what you are purchasing before buying it. 

A few bars of legato phrases would be much appreciated in these final hours.

Thanks.


----------



## George Caplan

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

hi hendrik

any sign of more videos with the legats?


----------



## synthetic

They're probably scared to death to post more demos with all of the bickering that's gone on the past few weeks.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

synthetic @ 17th July said:


> They're probably scared to death to post more demos with all of the bickering that's gone on the past few weeks.



haha, no. And the next video will be about the legatos, no question. 

Regard the playable runs patch: Teldex is huge room with a longer reverb tail than the stage where we recorded Orchestral String Runs.
The reverb is "baked in" the samples. That means, that when you play pretty fast, that the reverb tails will be cutted off always when you play the next note. That creates the illusion of much dryer samples - which is not the case. That´s indeed a disadvantage when you sample these kind of interval performance patches in a big room. BUT you always have the natural ambiences in the samples and that´s why I recommend to use always a reverb on top of the library which solves this problem with the release tails and it helps you to unite all your different sample libraries under one major reverb/ room. 
I will think about a concept to solve this more elegant. one of my ideas is to blend in a release sample when you play the next note, depending on the current speed of your playing. But the current playable runs patches are absolutely usable with just a bit reverb on it and I like them pretty much!

BTW: The true legato instruments don´t have this issue, because they have another concept. I will explain that in the next video.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## jamwerks

synthetic @ Tue Jul 17 said:


> with all of the bickering that's gone on the past few weeks.



The word is well chosen, sounds like a bunch of old ladies complaining because they have nothing better to do.

I watched the video again on the runs, and imo, there aren't any problems with the final notes. Even alone (exposed) they sound fine to me. And remember 95% of the time, runs are used in loud and busy contexts, where lots of stuff is sounding (e.g. bass drum & cymbales on the final note of a run, etc.)

A "workaround" comes to mind:

And the end of a flute run, in another track, place a staccato or other note with the wanted release.


----------



## Mike Connelly

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*



jamwerks @ Mon Jul 09 said:


> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Jul 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After many requests:
> 
> Bass Clarinet and Contra Bassoon is on our list now as one of our next projects!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you do: Alto Flute, E-flat Clar, Bass Clar & Contrabassoon, you'll be totally complete
Click to expand...


I'll second that. Will the BC and CB be a paid addition or free update? And any plans for Eb clar, alto and bass flute etc? Looks like a great library but I'd really miss those.

It would be great to get more feedback on potential extra instruments before preorder deal ends.

Also, have there been any demo examples of the close mics?


----------



## rpmusic

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

First off, my apologies if this is covered somewhere and I've missed it, but I see that the pre-order price is drawing to a close, so are there any demos of the legato patches that we can hear before deciding to order? Love all of the run builder aspects of this library but not knowing how the other instruments actually sound, how the legato transitions, dynamic transitions, etc., makes it a bit of a challenge to pre-order.

Also, are all articulations individual patches, or are they keyswitched or velocity triggered (in the same fashion as Cinesamples sets up their instruments).

Loved the one demo with the beta flute - sounded fantastic - would love to hear the rest of the section.

Thanks in advance for any info!


----------



## synthetic

Thank you Hendrik. That sounds like a good solution on the runs patches. You can always add more reverb, but too much can make things muddy. Perhaps you could add a switchable release sample with a volume control as an option in the future. 

We're all looking forward to the legato demo. Will that be posted before the presale special is over?


----------



## rJames

Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Jul 17 said:


> synthetic @ 17th July said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're probably scared to death to post more demos with all of the bickering that's gone on the past few weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> haha, no. And the next video will be about the legatos, no question.
> 
> Regard the playable runs patch: Teldex is huge room with a longer reverb tail than the stage where we recorded Orchestral String Runs.
> The reverb is "baked in" the samples. That means, that when you play pretty fast, that the reverb tails will be cutted off always when you play the next note. That creates the illusion of much dryer samples - which is not the case. That´s indeed a disadvantage when you sample these kind of interval performance patches in a big room. BUT you always have the natural ambiences in the samples and that´s why I recommend to use always a reverb on top of the library which solves this problem with the release tails and it helps you to unite all your different sample libraries under one major reverb/ room.
> I will think about a concept to solve this more elegant. one of my ideas is to blend in a release sample when you play the next note, depending on the current speed of your playing. But the current playable runs patches are absolutely usable with just a bit reverb on it and I like them pretty much!
> 
> BTW: The true legato instruments don´t have this issue, because they have another concept. I will explain that in the next video.
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik
Click to expand...

I remember having this discussion with Big Bob back when he was building the legato script for Kontakt.

The legato passage must have natural room verb and the note that you are coming away from also has to have room verb. Of course, we can mask the inadequacy with another layer of reverb...which is why dry samples work better (but they don't sound better) because you are not adding an extra layer of reverb.

Optimally, the note you are coming from continues to reverberate and fade away (even after the legato is gone) but the legato's room is still bouncing around the room and decaying after that. Without it, the sound goes dead for a split second.

For me, I liked the release tails turned down a bit but not off totally. Then add that tiny touch of verb on top. 

It is always going to be a compromise.


----------



## eschroder

Pressure is on... one day left.... any change on those legato demos?


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

@rJames: So true. It´s exactly the thing you´ve to deal with...

The legato screencast is uploading at the moment. So it will be available today (I think 4 -5 hours - it´s a HD video). I will post that here and on facebook when it is ready 

Of course we´ll extend the first pre order step for 2 additional days. So everybody can watch all the videos and you can do your decision without having too much pressure.
The next pre order push will be on July 21st. :mrgreen: 

@rpmusic: The Articulations Performer of BWW will do that job. So you can change between several artics or you can create velocity rules, assigning keyswitches, etc.
I will do a video about that when it´s ready.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## eschroder

Thanks Hendrik!


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Wed Jul 18 said:


> The legato screencast is uploading at the moment. So it will be available today (I think 4 -5 hours - it´s a HD video). I will post that here and on facebook when it is ready
> 
> Of course we´ll extend the first pre order step for 2 additional days. So everybody can watch all the videos and you can do your decision without having too much pressure.
> The next pre order push will be on July 21st.



Hendrik,

You are a top notch guy. Thanks for all the wonderful effort and communication you've put into answering questions and really showing off the library during the pre-order. I think I can say for many here that we really appreciate it and I, for one, am more encouraged to buy BWW from you because of it.

Looking forward to that legato video!

Cheers.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*

Hey Guys,

Chapter III: True Legato video is online!!

http://youtu.be/re5aRwSOwyE


+ the current pre-order step will be extended until July, 21st.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## dogforester

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Sounds lovely Hendrik. 8)


----------



## eschroder

yay, watching right now


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Very nice sound, and the transitions sound good. Can you use the modwheel to crossfade between dynamic layers with these patches?


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

@RiffWraith: Sure! All legto patches are sampled with 3 dynamic layers and they are completely crossfadable and it is your decision if you use CC1 (modwheel) for that or any other controller.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## jleckie

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Very nice. The tone is quite lovely.


----------



## khollister

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Well, damn - I think I'm going to have to pop for this, even though I don't want to spend the money. The legatos sound great.

It's only money


----------



## ozmorphasis

Great job Hendrik and congratulations.

I'm curious, however, whether or not the chorus-y effect that I hear on the solo (!) examples is built into the samples, or is a byproduct of your altiverb setting? All of the solo examples have a bit of the same a2/a3 effect at times that we hear in the a3 flute section at the end. It is not noticeable when sustaining on a single note, but as soon as faster transitions are made between notes, then I hear a buildup of phase-y/chorus-y effect. It does not sound bad, but it does not sound like a solo instrument to me. I'll give it another listen on a different set up to make sure I am being fair here. 

For some context, I am a conductor and work with both samples and live players.

I have to say though, the quality and thoughtfulness of this library is impressive indeed.

O


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Lovely sounding, though there is way too much close mic being used for my taste. Especially audible on the flutes, too much "wind" sound.

In the videos, you could constantly vary the different parameters (mics, transitions, key noise, wind noise, etc. everything you've done) and that would give us lots of info about the sound and potential of the library. No need to make 10 different videos, just keep digging into everything that's there !.


(Pre-order done !!)


----------



## synthetic

Wow. Great work on this.


----------



## Mossad

ozmorphasis @ Wed Jul 18 said:


> Great job Hendrik and congratulations.
> 
> I'm curious, however, whether or not the chorus-y effect that I hear on the solo (!) examples is built into the samples, or is a byproduct of your altiverb setting? All of the solo examples have a bit of the same a2/a3 effect at times that we hear in the a3 flute section at the end. It is not noticeable when sustaining on a single note, but as soon as faster transitions are made between notes, then I hear a buildup of phase-y/chorus-y effect. It does not sound bad, but it does not sound like a solo instrument to me. I'll give it another listen on a different set up to make sure I am being fair here.
> 
> For some context, I am a conductor and work with both samples and live players.
> 
> I have to say though, the quality and thoughtfulness of this library is impressive indeed.
> 
> O



My thoughts exactly. Would like an answer to this as well.


----------



## dannthr

Will there be demos of the Room mic only?

I have a hard time hearing any spatial width when the flutes play together. Sounds like they're sitting in the same seat to me.

Maybe it's just me today.


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*



> Lovely sounding, though there is way too much close mic being used for my taste.


+1

It sounds really great to me and I can't see myself not pre-ordering! I would love to hear stage mic only too though.


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*



Blakus @ Wed Jul 18 said:


> Lovely sounding, though there is way too much close mic being used for my taste.
> 
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> It sounds really great to me and I can't see myself not pre-ordering! I would love to hear stage mic only too though.
Click to expand...


I think it is rather the added breath/key noises you find too loud.

This is a nice sound. It does suffers from crossfading. From time to time you hear a phasing, that naturally only happens with an ensemble or two players. But every sample library suffers from that more or less - VSL a little more IMO. So far only sample modeling managed to overcome that, so I am quite happy and will buy BWW.


----------



## rpaillot

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Finally a flute that sounds like a real flute .


----------



## Bernard Quatermass

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST: SHORT NOTES*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Jul 09 said:


> After many requests:
> 
> Bass Clarinet and Contra Bassoon is on our list now as one of our next projects!
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Hello. Will the Bass Clarinet and Contra Bassoon be a separate lib or are they to be included in the Berlin Winds as a later update?


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*



Blakus @ Thu Jul 19 said:


> I would love to hear stage mic only too though.



I'd be looking for a sound similar to the "Bright JW" mix from CWW. I imagine on BWW a mix of 100% room and 20% close would be a the sound I'm hoping to hear.


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*



jamwerks @ Thu Jul 19 said:


> Blakus @ Thu Jul 19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to hear stage mic only too though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be looking for a sound similar to the "Bright JW" mix from CWW. I imagine on BWW a mix of 100% room and 20% close would be a the sound I'm hoping to hear.
Click to expand...


Exactly what I am thinking.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Some great stuff there, though I feel like Osterreich is still the WW king!


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Can you switch the vibrato techniques while you're playing?


----------



## jamwerks

Vlzmusic @ Thu Jul 19 said:


> though I feel like Osterreich is still the WW king


 :shock:


----------



## james7275

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Yes the flutes sound fantastic! 

Don't know how I feel about the bassoon...I think cinewinds has got the edge there.

it sounds really good but it;s still alot of money for me at the moment. Is today the last day of the first tiered discount? Nevermind, just seen it's extended to the 21st.


----------



## khollister

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

I'm in - did my pre-order last night. While I love the sound of CWW, there are way too many issues that will drive me crazy. Given everything included in BWW, I think the preorder price is pretty good value. 

Can't wait for the 8th!

Thanks for all the hard work Hendrik - this looks to be a very impressive product.


----------



## reddognoyz

will there be any divisi scripting? Very curious to see how the articulations will be handled!!


----------



## FriFlo

Hendrik: One thing about your key switch articulation multi script: Could you include an option to use program change numbers instead of notes? I just hate keyswitches and prefer sending PCs with a lemur template ... I guess everybody would be doing that, if people just knew how much better that works than keyswitching ... just a minor one, but I thought I should say it.


----------



## Vlzmusic

askmusic @ Thu Jul 19 said:


> Beware: Austria (Vienna) and Prussia (Berlin) are at enmity since the beginning of the time. So don't confuse this! :twisted:



Not in the VSTi world I am sure o-[][]-o


----------



## Daryl

FriFlo @ Thu Jul 19 said:


> Hendrik: One thing about your key switch articulation multi script: Could you include an option to use program change numbers instead of notes? I just hate keyswitches and prefer sending PCs with a lemur template ... I guess everybody would be doing that, if people just knew how much better that works than keyswitching ... just a minor one, but I thought I should say it.


Some people might like Program Changes, but just be aware that they don't work with VST3 plugs.

Regarding keyswitches, there are no issues that I find really annoying. I guess it just depends on your workflow. However, I would be interested to know what the problem is for you. BTW I've been using a Lemur for years. A real Jazzmutant Lemur. Not some b*stardised software hack. :wink: 

D


----------



## FriFlo

Daryl @ Thu Jul 19 said:


> FriFlo @ Thu Jul 19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hendrik: One thing about your key switch articulation multi script: Could you include an option to use program change numbers instead of notes? I just hate keyswitches and prefer sending PCs with a lemur template ... I guess everybody would be doing that, if people just knew how much better that works than keyswitching ... just a minor one, but I thought I should say it.
> 
> 
> 
> Some people might like Program Changes, but just be aware that they don't work with VST3 plugs.
> 
> Regarding keyswitches, there are no issues that I find really annoying. I guess it just depends on your workflow. However, I would be interested to know what the problem is for you. BTW I've been using a Lemur for years. A real Jazzmutant Lemur. Not some b*stardised software hack. :wink:
> 
> D
Click to expand...


Not asking to dump the Keyswitches, as I am well aware that most people still prefer them. Just asking to have the alternative available ... it's probably something like 5 additional lines in the script and a switch in the gui.


----------



## George Caplan

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

my pet topic is always vibrato. is it possible to change the vibrato setting in mid recording? love the sound.


----------



## autopilot

On the screencast isn't there a controller number for vibrato type?


----------



## Hannes_F

askmusic @ Thu Jul 19 said:


> Beware: Austria (Vienna) and Prussia (Berlin) are at enmity since the beginning of the time. So don't confuse this! :twisted:



Now what should I say as the son of a Prussian with a Viennese?


----------



## doubleattack

Hannes_F @ Thu 19 Jul said:


> askmusic @ Thu Jul 19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beware: Austria (Vienna) and Prussia (Berlin) are at enmity since the beginning of the time. So don't confuse this! :twisted:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now what should I say as the son of a Prussian with a Viennese?
Click to expand...


The world isn't in order anymore... :mrgreen:


----------



## Bernard Quatermass

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Pre ordered and looking forward to it.


----------



## clonewar

Hendrik, can you tell us a little more about the articulation switcher.. That's a really important to me as I've gotten used to VSL's VI Pro and having all articulations available on one channel. If we'll be able to have the same type of control in BWW I'm probably going to pre order it instead of buying more VSL WW download instruments.

Also (and sorry if this has already been covered somewhere), how dry are the close mics? I'd like to know how well they'll work in MIR Pro.

Thanks!
Mike


----------



## jamwerks

Multi is Kontakt let you load tons of stuff all an the same track. The VSL solution is quite a bit more elegant though


----------



## Erik

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" VIDEO CHAPTER II: RUNS & FAST LINES*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Wed 18 Jul said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Chapter III: True Legato video is online!!



Hendrik,
Congrats with the superb sound, seldom heard this quality!

There is an issue however in this video: I hear some quite audible crossfading in a.o. the oboe qt 2.14, it sounds like listening at 2 instruments. Apparently there is some relationship with the XFade settings? Am I correct here?


----------



## Hannes_F

Hi there,

nice tone and achievement. However, as much as I hate to say it there seems to be quite some phasing going on on many of the notes though. It's almost as if many of the notes would be doubled by a second player.

I seem to be the only one to hear this while everybody else loves it, so don't take me too serious.


----------



## Erik

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

You are not the only one, Hannes, apparently...


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Yes, I hear some too here and there. Maybe some overlaps that stick? There are also some legato transitions that are a little rough. It will probably need 1.1 to iron all that out.

Sounds though that the engineer did a great job, and the wealth of the content and control have sold it to me.


----------



## dfhagai

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

+1
Sounds like a constant octave doubling....except for the flutes


----------



## jleckie

Hannes_F @ Fri Jul 20 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> nice tone and achievement. However, as much as I hate to say it there seems to be quite some phasing going on on many of the notes though. It's almost as if many of the notes would be doubled by a second player.
> 
> I seem to be the only one to hear this while everybody else loves it, so don't take me too serious.



Phasing is easy to check. It's either there or it is not.


----------



## suomynona

Hi Hendrik, it would be great to show us or give us more info about how the articulation switcher works before the initial preorder ends. Some definite details about this and/or a short video of it in action would make it easier to hand over the $. The library looks great so far...


----------



## ryanstrong

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Hendrik, is the True Legato the last video you will be posting before the first pre-order ends?


----------



## FriFlo

Guys, do you think the Cinewind crossfades sound better? I compared both videos and both have the same problem, as does VSL. With these delicate sounds like oboe it is simply impossible to achieve realistic crossfading with samples IMO. Wait for sample modeling or buy now!


----------



## FriFlo

In case somebody does not get, why there is not the same quality of crossfading on different types of instruments or sections may give this a read:
http://www.swamengine.com/about/


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

This (Xfade issues and SWAM, etc.) probably deserves it own thread. Hardly fair to put it in a manufacturer's announcement thread.

I'd be more than willing to talk (or woot on about why I'd be willing to buy this or that library) about several subjects regarding WW's there since it wouldn't seem like I was either showing preference or disrespect to any particular developer. They all work very hard to develop the best they can. I respect that. 

.


----------



## FriFlo

Hey, I bought BWW ... and I didn't say BWW would suffer badly from crossfading, but rather any conventional library does, especially the double reeds. So I was actually defending Hendrik's library against the complaints about phasing ...


----------



## radec

its just a little unprofessional friflo to discuss and link competitor products in the commercial announcements thread. the devs pay for the right to post their announcements here and its meant to be about the product, not a competitors thoughts on industry methods that are shortcomings


----------



## ryanstrong

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*



rystro @ Fri Jul 20 said:


> Hendrik, is the True Legato the last video you will be posting before the first pre-order ends?



Email from Hendrik...

"no there will be no more videos. The first pre-order option ends tomorow. I think it´s a fair game  More great videos and audio demos will follow during the 2nd pre-order."


----------



## FriFlo

radec @ Fri Jul 20 said:


> its just a little unprofessional friflo to discuss and link competitor products in the commercial announcements thread. the devs pay for the right to post their announcements here and its meant to be about the product, not a competitors thoughts on industry methods that are shortcomings



Nobody seemed to complain about cinewinds, VSL etc.s being mentioned multiple times ... both are well known here anyway. 
Guys! You just have to use your head a little more, before you accuse people of things that simply don't stand!


----------



## clonewar

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*



rystro @ Fri Jul 20 said:


> rystro @ Fri Jul 20 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hendrik, is the True Legato the last video you will be posting before the first pre-order ends?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Email from Hendrik...
> 
> "no there will be no more videos. The first pre-order option ends tomorow. I think it´s a fair game  More great videos and audio demos will follow during the 2nd pre-order."
Click to expand...


And I suppose also no more information about things like the articulation switcher? Too bad, it would be nice to have more details before pre-ordering.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Too bad about there being no more videos. I was expecting to take a listen to the different microphones. Strange, seems that's the only feature that wasn't covered in the videos. :shock:


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*

Hey Guys,

I´m pretty happy to show you the first official demo "Berlin Stories", composed by Sascha Knorr.
All the WWs are from BWW + all Strings from Symphonic Sphere and OSR.

[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/audio/bww/berlin_stories.mp3[/mp3]


All the best,

Hendrik


----------



## Christian F. Perucchi

Very nice and "woodwindish" demo Hendrik! love your library, i´m waiting so see some swarm stuff to decide (have my old opus 1 & 2 libs) and older libraries with sips scripting so it´s time to upgrade or make my custom stuff or both!! 
Regards
Christian


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: FIRST DEMO COMPOSITION ADDED*

Pre-ordered. :mrgreen:


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: FIRST DEMO COMPOSITION ADDED*

Sounds great ! /\~O


----------



## Chriss Ons

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: CHAPTER III: TRUE LEGATO VIDEO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ 21st July said:


> (...) the first official demo "Berlin Stories", composed by Sascha Knorr.


...great job! Sounds lovely, and I'm confident that this library will live up to my expectations.


----------



## MaestroRage

trigger pulled. Looking forward to the magic!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: FIRST DEMO COMPOSITION ADDED*

Just want to add the following:
Sascha told me, the he will do a screencast about his composition, where he will explain which patches he used and how he worked with BWW.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: FIRST DEMO COMPOSITION ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Sun Jul 22 said:


> Just want to add the following:
> Sascha told me, the he will do a screencast about his composition, where he will explain which patches he used and how he worked with BWW.
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Fantastic!! :o


----------



## Gemylon

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: FIRST DEMO COMPOSITION ADDED*

Hello guys,

I guess this is my first post in here, just been a reader up till now.

Now, I ordered BWW yesterday, and I am really looking forward to the release.

Been watching Hendrik's videos, and I am impressed with the sound quality of this library.
I have a feeling It will work better than Cinewinds(which I already have) in many ways,
but those two will also work great together.


Also want to add ... 
This seems like a fantastic forum with people with a lot of knowledge, and I am sure I will get help when needed :wink: 

Thanks.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: FIRST DEMO COMPOSITION ADDED*



Bogstad @ Sun Jul 22 said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I guess this is my first post in here,



Welcome !!

(not so sure though that any of us knows much of anything...) :shock:


----------



## Gemylon

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: FIRST DEMO COMPOSITION ADDED*



jamwerks @ Sun 22 Jul said:


> Welcome !!
> 
> (not so sure though that any of us knows much of anything...) :shock:




Well from my reading in here, I've learned there is a lot of clever folks around ... :wink:


----------



## EastWest Lurker

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: FIRST DEMO COMPOSITION ADDED*



jamwerks @ Sun Jul 22 said:


> Bogstad @ Sun Jul 22 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello guys,
> 
> I guess this is my first post in here,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome !!
> 
> (not so sure though that any of us knows much of anything...) :shock:
Click to expand...


Speak for yourself :mrgreen:


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: FIRST DEMO COMPOSITION ADDED*



EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jul 22 said:


> Speak for yourself :mrgreen:



Actually I was kind of referring to y..... :mrgreen:


----------



## EastWest Lurker

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: FIRST DEMO COMPOSITION ADDED*



jamwerks @ Sun Jul 22 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jul 22 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speak for yourself :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I was kind of referring to y..... :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

 >8o >8o >8o >8o :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: FIRST DEMO COMPOSITION ADDED*

Hey Guys,
there is a new screencast online about the demo composition of Sascha Knorr "Berlin Stories" and how he worked with BWW.

A big thanks to Sascha for writing the first demo and doing this screencast!

http://youtu.be/-oSuEtGnS1o

You can find the demo in its full length on orchestraltools.com

Best, Hendrik


----------



## germancomponist

Nice!


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*

nicely done video


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*

Nice piece, nice WW writing, and of course great instruments to work with !!

Can't wait to start using it ! =o


----------



## Erik

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*

This is one of the best_ tutorials_ I ever have seen! Thanks so much, I hope this will set a new standard.


----------



## George Caplan

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*

top stuff.


----------



## Peter Alexander

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*

Aside from demonstrating excellent woodwind writing, this demo answers the all important demo question: How did you get to the end result.

Bravo. Well done on ALL counts.


----------



## jleckie

Nice, hearing parts exposed. It is a lovely library.


----------



## Ryan Scully

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*

I'd just like to make 2 points here:

1. I agree this is an excellent demo and tutorial.

2. Whether you were self taught or formally trained, Sascha, your writing and orchestration skills set the bar very high. It's a privilege to hear your work.



Ryan :D


----------



## Peter Alexander

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*



askmusic @ Sat Jul 28 said:


> Thank you very much for your nice remarks, guys.
> 
> I - as a self-taught composer - have to say, apart from other good things about BWW, that its this library, that only enabled me to write those quite complex woodwind parts. To have different flutes, oboes, and so on with a wide range of articulations in that quality made me think of how to use them and let them play different things. I never wrote a score for live orchestra (hope to be able to do this in the future) so my approach allways was driven by the samples and tools, that I used at the particular moment. So now I am quite happy to have a tool like BWW, that offers so much variety, that one really thinks about using all of this. In the past, I usually wouldn't come up with the idea of writing a clarinet to play the melody and another clarinet to accompany this. But now I have 2 clarinets, so why not use them for different things at the same time?
> 
> This may sound quite amateurish to trained/experienced composers and orchestrators, but for me it was a nice new point-of-view. So to say: BWW with its concept and vision opened a new door to me (hope this metaphor exists in english).
> - Sascha



Sascha - read music history. Nearly every great composer was self taught (Bach was!) and learned through score study and condensing scores. Others like Mozart studied with their father and/or were mentored by others.

Also, many fine composers played instruments and were part of orchestral ensembles. So by experience their ears knew what they were looking for. As I've read your bio, you have performance experience.

No one comes out of university as a "trained" composer. That's a myth. Look no further than Ravel who dropped out of college. He turned out pretty good...

Keep at it!

Also, I echoed your writing insights at BWW in this article:
http://soniccontrol.tv/2012/07/27/assembling-a-kontakt-sample-library-orchestra/ (http://soniccontrol.tv/2012/07/27/assem ... orchestra/)


----------



## MacQ

Sascha ... love the demo video! Exactly as said above, it's really nice to see exposed "here's how I did it" videos. It's the next-best-thing to actually sitting down with the library and playing it.

Great work!

~Stu


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*

Fantastic piece and video Sascha! Boy am I glad I preordered, BWW sounds stunning!


----------



## Bernard Quatermass

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*

Great. Cant wait for download day.


----------



## bdr

Do we have an ETA yet?


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*

August 8th


----------



## ryanstrong

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*

Pre-ordered, cannot wait. Hendrik fantastic job on providing a good amount of videos to really show off the product. The quality and flexibility in these patches are exactly what I was looking for in a woodwind library.

I would love to hear a demo that showed off the more romantic side of the woodwinds. Some slower passages.


----------



## Vision

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*



askmusic @ Sat Jul 28 said:


> Thank you very much for your nice remarks, guys.
> 
> I - as a self-taught composer - have to say, apart from other good things about BWW, that its this library, that only enabled me to write those quite complex woodwind parts. To have different flutes, oboes, and so on with a wide range of articulations in that quality made me think of how to use them and let them play different things. I never wrote a score for live orchestra (hope to be able to do this in the future) so my approach allways was driven by the samples and tools, that I used at the particular moment. So now I am quite happy to have a tool like BWW, that offers so much variety, that one really thinks about using all of this. In the past, I usually wouldn't come up with the idea of writing a clarinet to play the melody and another clarinet to accompany this. But now I have 2 clarinets, so why not use them for different things at the same time?
> 
> This may sound quite amateurish to trained/experienced composers and orchestrators, but for me it was a nice new point-of-view. So to say: BWW with its concept and vision opened a new door to me (hope this metaphor exists in english).
> - Sascha



Very cool video Sascha. I'm self taught as well (learned on piano). And played in wind ensemble (French horn, trumpet). I've never been a fan of theory. Too many rules, and I didn't like how the colors felt.. That's another topic though. 

Anyway, I'm typically interested in tools that can be inspiring to the writing process, while also being intuitive. My musical thoughts come fairly quickly, and much of the time I tend to compose, program, and edit on the go.

Wonderfully crafted composition.. and many thanks for the detailed video. Even more interested in what BWW has to offer now.


----------



## SeanM1960

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW: FIRST DEMO COMPOSITION ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Sat Jul 28 said:


> Hey Guys,
> there is a new screencast online about the demo composition of Sascha Knorr "Berlin Stories" and how he worked with BWW.
> 
> A big thanks to Sascha for writing the first demo and doing this screencast!
> 
> http://youtu.be/-oSuEtGnS1o
> 
> You can find the demo in its full length on orchestraltools.com
> 
> Best, Hendrik



Wow - that sounds great! I am going to have to pick this up.

Any chance the .mid file can be made available?


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" NEW SCREENCAST by Sascha Knorr*

Hey Guys,

I´ve uploaded a new video about the Articulations Performer and how you can switch and fade through the different artics.

Chapter IV is online :D 

http://youtu.be/99sLgz1UhaE

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## EwigWanderer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

Amazing! BWW seems to be the winner of woodwinds IMO.

Can't wait to get this o[])


----------



## gungnir

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

Ah, now this is a great step forward.

Articulations triggered by "any midi controller". Great to get away from the keyswitch thing which some of us hate using.

Well done!


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

Nice work on that articulations performer !!


----------



## artinro

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

Great work Hendrik! Looking forward to downloading next week!


----------



## Bernard Quatermass

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

Are those French Oboes Hendrik? Forgot to ask. They sound like French Oboes.


----------



## adg21

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

Beautiful work on the cross-fades, especially impressive is the non-vibrato to vibrato.


----------



## dfhagai

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

Excellent Job! this library is a winner


----------



## benmrx

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

WOW!

This library keeps upping the ante with each new screencast. Sascha's demo/cue and walk-through were definately my favorite of all the new WW libraries thus far. Now seeing the 'articulation performer' it got even better.

I will say that I wish Hendrick would take a similar approach to Cinesamples (and Audiobro) and offer up a more affordable/stripped down version to get us poor folk started. 

Regardless, this library seems VERY impressive so far.


----------



## schatzus

Very impressive! (The sound, the composition and the screencast.)


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

Hendrik, you have some seriously cool stuff going on here. The interface, the flexibility just seems to awesome and very well thought out - this definitely doesn't seem like a rushed product but something that you really have been shaping for a looooong time! And as far as I can tell the tone and recording is excellent! I have some gripes about the legato sounds and the phasing issue but I don't think that will keep me away from ordering Berlin Woodwinds as there seem to be so many other qualities to it 8)


----------



## shakuman

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

Wow! excellent work Hendrik! it sounds killer for me. >8o


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

Wow! I didn't think I could get more excited about this library!


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

Wish some other libraries had that type of articulation-handling programming.  Very impressive. Looking forward to next week (and still wondering if it's possible for me to download 50+ GB ....and how long it will take).


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

QUESTION: I just went through the ordering process, got to the PayPal page and discovered that unlike previous purchases via PayPal this year, they now want me to create an account. I do NOT want a PayPal account EVER again. Had a terrible time with them, they wanted access to my bank account after me being a member for 4 years and thousands of dollars in successful purchases, and then I had a tough time closing my account. I have no respect for this company and neither does my legal counsel or bank. How can one purchase BWW without signing up for a PayPal account?? Ignoring their request for entering a password stopped the purchase. In the past I've been able to go through PayPal and pay via credit card, but was never forced to create an account again. Can't I just pay by credit card somehow? Please advise....preferably soon.  Thanks.


----------



## Vision

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*



playz123 @ Fri Aug 03 said:


> QUESTION: I just went through the ordering process, got to the PayPal page and discovered that unlike previous purchases via PayPal this year, they now want me to create an account. I do NOT want a PayPal account EVER again. Had a terrible time with them, they wanted access to my bank account after me being a member for 4 years and thousands of dollars in successful purchases, and then I had a tough time closing my account. I have no respect for this company and neither does my legal counsel or bank. How can one purchase BWW without signing up for a PayPal account?? Ignoring their request for entering a password stopped the purchase. In the past I've been able to go through PayPal and pay via credit card, but was never forced to create an account again. Can't I just pay by credit card somehow? Please advise....preferably soon.  Thanks.



Same experience for me today. For what ever reason PayPal, thinks it's a bank now. I don't understand how they could calmly ask you to give away your bank password and username. No thanks.


----------



## George Caplan

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*



playz123 @ Fri Aug 03 said:


> I do NOT want a PayPal account EVER again.



they may possibly be the worst company in the world. the jury is still out here. but whenever i come across them through others generally i mostly cringe.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

I´ve checked that and there is a button on the PayPal page where you can pay with credit card and without having a PayPal account. But if that is not working, just write me a short e-mail and we can try that manually or via bank transfer. No problem.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Sat Aug 04 said:


> I´ve checked that and there is a button on the PayPal page where you can pay with credit card and without having a PayPal account. But if that is not working, just write me a short e-mail and we can try that manually or via bank transfer. No problem.
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



That's the way it was until this attempted purchase, but this time it showed only two choices.......log into PayPal or create a PayPal account. Neither option is acceptable. I am also totally surprised that so many people continue to provide their banking information to a company that has been compromised in the past. When I discussed their policies and request with my bank manager and three different lawyers on three different occasions, the joking reply to "should I comply?" was basically "are you insane?"  A search of Google will verify that newspaper columnists have been questioning this policy for quite some time as well. e.g.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/your- ... ggler.html

In any case, I'll say no more here....the last thing I want to do is steer the conversation away from BWW. I will contact you Hendrik, and thank you for your kind assistance.


EDIT:...Update. Here's some additional information. I purchased something from here in Canada this morning via PayPal and was provided with the "Guest" option (i.e. didn't have to create an account), yet when I go back to the OT web site the PayPal options are only the ones shown in the image below..i.e. use an existing account or create one. So perhaps what Hendrik is seeing is not what I am seeing? Is it perhaps because I'm trying to purchase an item sold in Germany (rather than from a store here in North America), but I am ordering from Canada/ North America? Hopefully this problem can be solved.

EDIT 2: Hendrik sent an "Invoice" to me for payment to see if that would work. At first it didn't. Using the PC computer in my office I followed the correct links, but ended up with only the same two options I mentioned previously...log into PayPal or create an account. Tried it three times, but still no option to pay directly by credit card. I was about ready to report failure, but tried one more thing. I opened the message on my iPad and, when I proceeded, for some reason I started seeing different options than on my office PC. Using that device I was able to enter only my credit card information and pay. Very strange! I also think the fact that this is an 'intercontinental' purchase may have something to do with what people in NA see when they try to use PayPal on Hendrik's site. I strongly suggest that it might be in OT's best interests as a merchant to sort this out with PayPal...if they will even listen or alter their inane policies. 

Two Choices only:


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" CHAPTER IV: Articulations Performer*

Hey Guys,

we´ve a new demo, composed by Craig Sharmat!

"Flying" is a really lovely and great piece of music. 
Hope you´ll like it as much as I do.

Big thanks to Craig!

[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/audio/bww/flying.mp3[/mp3]


BTW: All the strings are from Orchestral Tools libraries. All the winds are BWW. 


@playz123: Thank´s for the reply. Sure, no problem we´ll find a way...

Best,

Hendrik


----------



## Bernard Quatermass

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Nice track.


----------



## jim2b

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Beautiful piece, Craig,

And a great sounding library.

Jim


----------



## re-peat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Craig,

Shouldn't that be "Midnight Cowboy Flying" instead of just "Flying"?

Absolutely nothing accusational about this remark whatsoever, you know. (I just got reminded, that's all.) It is a remarkable piece you've come up with. And extremely well arranged/programmed/realized.
However, and somewhat surprising, I find the woodwinds to be the least convincing presence of all here. Don't know, but they sound, for want of a better description, a bit tired, casual and unenthusiastic, compared to everything that surrounds them. They're certainly no match for the energy and zest that can be heard in the rest of the orchestra.

_


----------



## schatzus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Beautiful composition Craig.


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

I liked it. Bit of John Barry in there somewhere.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Thanks for the nice remarks guys




re-peat @ Sat Aug 04 said:


> Craig,
> 
> Shouldn't that be "Midnight Cowboy Flying" instead of just "Flying"?
> 
> Absolutely nothing accusational about this remark whatsoever, you know. (I just got reminded, that's all.) It is a remarkable piece you've come up with. And extremely well arranged/programmed/realized.
> However, and somewhat surprising, I find the woodwinds to be the least convincing presence of all here. Don't know, but they sound, for want of a better description, a bit tired, casual and unenthusiastic, compared to everything that surrounds them. They're certainly no match for the energy and zest that can be heard in the rest of the orchestra.
> 
> _



Actually the title could have been called "Midnight Cowboy Flying Once Removed"
I was just at Disneyland for two energetic but sensory overload days with my nephew. The Goldsmith score for "Soaring Over California" must be derivative too as that is where I got a bit of my inspiration. As far as the winds are concerned I found many of the patches inspirational. If I could be so bold i predict you will likely pick them up whether you liked them in my demo or not...


----------



## re-peat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Craig,

I already pre-ordered several weeks ago.

But seriously, if you forget for a second that you wrote, programmed and produced this yourself, and if you could try to listen to your own work as if it were by someone else (difficult, I know, but doable), don't you agree? Just a tiny little bit? That the woodwinds sound a touch lacklustre, disinterested and unengaged?
From the first time I heard it and everytime since, these woodwinds always sound as if they've been rehearsing and playing this music the whole day long, and now, when the record button finally turns red, they simply don't have in them anymore to give it their very best. It's all the more noticeable, I find, because the rest of the orchestra doesn't seem to suffer in the least from that same fatigue.

Anyway, I really enjoyed (and am still enjoying) your piece. And I'm looking forward, with mounting excitement, to the day of this superb library's release.

_


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

imho. a good way to evaluate woodwinds is to have them play against a more transparent orchestral arrangement, meaning, not tooooo much going on in the Strings, Brass, dept. 

A harp, pianissimo strings, or any other combination of a subtle, and more transparent orchestration for the background, and bring the woodwinds to the foreground, since they are the 'featured instruments', so we can hear them clearly, and get a chance to carefully evaluate them in this type of musical context. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Muziksculp,

True and not true, at least for me. For a library to work it needs to be able to work in most situations being full orchestrations and lighter ones too. Certain libraries work great in lighter settings but fall apart in denser ones and vica versa.

Piet, your imagination is greater than mine considering a mockup recording session equaling a real one. Solo sampled instruments (those which have vibrato and note transitions) as good as they have become can not match a good real player which I presume you already know. When I purchase a library I question is the tone good and is the vibrato a usable approximation considering multiple usages. Sometimes a library exceeds my expectations and sometimes it does not. Often it does both in the same piece.
Probably more important is to step back and see if my clients would care or do they just see the big picture.


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*



Craig Sharmat @ Sat Aug 04 said:


> Muziksculp,
> 
> True and not true, at least for me. For a library to work it needs to be able to work in most situations being full orchestrations and lighter ones too. Certain libraries work great in lighter settings but fall apart in denser ones and vica versa.
> 
> Piet, your imagination is greater than mine considering a mockup recording session equaling a real one. Solo sampled instruments (those which have vibrato and note transitions) as good as they have become can not match a good real player which I presume you already know. When I purchase a library I question is the tone good and is the vibrato a usable approximation considering multiple usages. Sometimes a library exceeds my expectations and sometimes it does not. Often it does both in same piece.
> Probably more important is to step back and see if my clients would care or do they just see the big picture.



Hi Craig, 

I agree with all you said. 

For evaluating the quality of the timbre, vibrato, and other character related aspects of a woodwind instrument, it would be hard to hear it in a dense orchestral work. That's basically what I'm referring to. 

Surely, woodwinds are often used to add some additional timbrel quality to strings, and even brass, they are also used to create a thicker woodwind texture when combined, dove-tailed, and other techniques in orchestration, in these instances they kind of melt into the mix, which is what they are meant to do. But... imho. this is not the best way to evaluate their detail (i.e. timbre, hear the various articulations 'clearly', playability of instruments, legato quality, ...etc). 

Maybe some future audio demos that give the B.Woodwinds in a less crowded orchestral work would be very helpful to better evaluate them in that kind of musical context. 

As some others have commented, the B.Woods in the demo you posted are a bit washed out, and do not seem to have a presence, again, I'm not sure if this is a production/mix issue, or just the nature of the instruments. (maybe re-mix the woods and see if that helps fix the issue), anyway ... it would be nice to re-evaluate them via more (less orchestrally dense/busy) demos. 

Thank You for posting your demo, which is Great from both an orchestration, and composition perspective. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

In my opinion this video shows BWW exposed very nicely. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oSuEtGnS1o&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oSuEtGnS1o&amp;feature=plcp)

It shows the woodwinds totally naked throughout the whole piece. It sounds really impressive to me! It also shows how layering articulations can sound pretty convincing. I thought this would be fiddly, but after seeing the articulations performer video I'm excited!


----------



## muziksculp

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*



Blakus @ Sat Aug 04 said:


> In my opinion this video shows BWW exposed very nicely. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oSuEtGnS1o&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oSuEtGnS1o&amp;feature=plcp)
> 
> It shows the woodwinds totally naked throughout the whole piece. It sounds really impressive to me! It also shows how layering articulations can sound pretty convincing. I thought this would be fiddly, but after seeing the articulations performer video I'm excited!



Thanks, Yes this is very helpful indeed, and it sounds very good, given only reverb tails were used, and no additional reverb was used in the mix (I'm guessing the reverb tail of each woodwind instrument).

I imagine it would sound much fuller with a bit of a high-quality concert hall reverb applied to the entire arrangement. But I'm guessing this was intentionally done to show how good they sound with no added processing. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Craig,

great piece! And it sounds very good. I am really looking forward to getting my hands on this collection 8)


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Excellent demo, Craig......nice composition and well orchestrated. I also read re-peat's comments and think I hear something along the lines of what he was suggesting. It does perhaps sound a little as if some of the 'performers' are feeling a little lazy sometimes, but I must also add that it really isn't 'off putting' for me nor does it detract significantly from the overall impressions of the piece. Heck, one could argue that it even adds a little realism to presentation.  In any case, well done, and thanks for sharing this with us.
******************

I've heard from Hendrik and he's working on this, but concerning my questions about purchases of BWW via PayPal, I've updated the information provided on the previous page of this thread. So if you have similar concerns or problems, you may be interested in reading it.

**************************


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

This is getting really close now!! o=?


----------



## Winslow

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Yes, I hope that Hendrik will send the download links in the morning (European time) so I can finish download before the US wakes up. Ups, I see - Blakus - you are in Australia. 


Cheers,

Winslow


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

It's probably going to be a long download for this big library. AndyYes it would be nice to get started downloading (in Europe) before those L.A. cats wake up ! :mrgreen: 

Can't wait...


----------



## quantum7

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

I have to say that the Berlin Woodwinds videos have totally blown me away. I rarely ever write for woodwinds, but mainly because the few woodwinds libraries I own frankly do not sound that inspiring to me. After seeing all the BWW videos I am suddenly craving to finally learn to write for woodwinds.....and of course it doesn't hurt that the photos of all 3 flute players are pleasant to look at either.  

Great Job Hendrik!


----------



## Steve Steele

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

I'm in. Love it. Also Symphonic Sphere is looking nice too. Great! Thanks for making unique products!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Thank you so much guys!

Yesterday I worked the whole night long to tweak and get more out of the legatos.
It´s a great library now and it´s pretty inspiring to work on it - doing the last things to make it perfect 

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Aug 07 said:


> Thank you so much guys!
> 
> Yesterday I worked the whole night long to tweak and get more out of the legatos.
> It´s a great library now and it´s pretty inspiring to work on it - doing the last things to make it perfect
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



I think I speak for many people here, but we REALLY appreciate your continuing effort to make your products better and listening to customer feedback. I am highly looking forward to receiving BWW tomorrow and adding it to my workflow.

Cheers!


----------



## artinro

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*



noxtenebrae17 @ Tue Aug 07 said:


> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Aug 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much guys!
> 
> Yesterday I worked the whole night long to tweak and get more out of the legatos.
> It´s a great library now and it´s pretty inspiring to work on it - doing the last things to make it perfect
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I speak for many people here, but we REALLY appreciate your continuing effort to make your products better and listening to customer feedback. I am highly looking forward to receiving BWW tomorrow and adding it to my workflow.
> 
> Cheers!
Click to expand...


+1


----------



## Mihkel Zilmer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Wonderful composition, Craig!

I love the sound of this library. Seems like a brilliant room for recording WWs. I've placed my order and can't wait to try it out! Also, I too must comment on how pleasant it is to see a developer keep an active dialogue with its customers. 

I hope this will be a roaring success for you, Hendrik, and I hope you'll keep producing carefully thought out libraries like this in the future.


----------



## adg21

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Aug 07 said:


> Thank you so much guys!
> 
> Yesterday I worked the whole night long to tweak and get more out of the legatos.
> It´s a great library now and it´s pretty inspiring to work on it - doing the last things to make it perfect
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



This is awesome - I love the hard work and love you are giving this library - but does this mean it's delayed for the last minute tweaks and such?

It feels a bit like Christmas right now. I can't wait to write something jovial with these.


----------



## lamandolina

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

Has somebody get the download links?


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*

I'd rather have it delayed a few days (or weeks for that matter) if it means an improved 1.0 version of the product, compared to waiting for months or half a year for the 1.1 update to happen, like we have seen with some other products... 8)


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*



adg21 @ 8th August said:


> This is awesome - I love the hard work and love you are giving this library - but does this mean it's delayed for the last minute tweaks and such?
> 
> It feels a bit like Christmas right now. I can't wait to write something jovial with these.



We´re doing the last things here. I think we´ll start sending out the download links today afternoon (Germany, MEST). I´m working on the Articulation Performer manual PDF at the moment at that´s the last thing I´ve on my list before we´ll upload the last zip-file. Samples folder (to big upload) is online now.

It´s like Christmas for us too! After working so many months on a single library :D 

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Wed Aug 08 said:


> It´s like Christmas for us too! After working so many months on a single library :D



I think we're just as excited as you guys ! o-[][]-o


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

Hendrik, i am so excited. i am really curious how all this feels. i'm shure you guys deserve some vacation when this is released. this will definitely distract from writing my b.a. thesis...
Best, 
Wolfgang


----------



## EastWest Lurker

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*



Craig Sharmat @ Sat Aug 04 said:


> Muziksculp,
> 
> True and not true, at least for me. For a library to work it needs to be able to work in most situations being full orchestrations and lighter ones too. Certain libraries work great in lighter settings but fall apart in denser ones and vica versa.
> 
> Piet, your imagination is greater than mine considering a mockup recording session equaling a real one. Solo sampled instruments (those which have vibrato and note transitions) as good as they have become can not match a good real player which I presume you already know. When I purchase a library I question is the tone good and is the vibrato a usable approximation considering multiple usages. Sometimes a library exceeds my expectations and sometimes it does not. Often it does both in the same piece.
> Probably more important is to step back and see if my clients would care or do they just see the big picture.



This is my nominee for Post Of The Year. Right on all counts IMHO.

BTW, congrats Hendrik et al on this achievement.


----------



## utopia

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

wo-hoo...got my links 8)


----------



## Dominik Raab

It. Has. Started. x)


----------



## MaestroRage

yay links are out!

But Continuata is not starting the download... maybe I just jumped the gun too early, anybody else getting this? Put in my code, make a folder, select. Then nothing

EDIT: Seems when I try to get manual links says my information is incorrect. Maybe hasn't validated my order yet :D?

I'll wait a while before spamming Hendrik


----------



## Mihkel Zilmer

MaestroRage @ Wed Aug 08 said:


> yay links are out!
> 
> But Continuata is not starting the download... maybe I just jumped the gun too early, anybody else getting this? Put in my code, make a folder, select. Then nothing



Try using your NI serial instead - that worked for me.


----------



## MaestroRage

Mihkel @ Wed Aug 08 said:


> MaestroRage @ Wed Aug 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yay links are out!
> 
> But Continuata is not starting the download... maybe I just jumped the gun too early, anybody else getting this? Put in my code, make a folder, select. Then nothing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try using your NI serial instead - that worked for me.
Click to expand...


That did it!

Much thanks!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

I´m sorry for the confusion.

Some of you got 2 mails. Please use the second mail with the serial, which is made with numbers only. Then you´re going right :D 

PLEASE READ THE INSTALLATION GUIDE!
We made some changes before we released today and you have to move and overwrite some files. Everything is explained in the pdf. That´s pretty important! Otherwise BWW will not use the newest scripts which improved several things like legato, GUI, etc.

Have fun!

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## dfhagai

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Downloading now 
Loooooooooooooong wait ahead....


----------



## adg21

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Does it download quicker if I watch it downloading, please advise.


----------



## Dominik Raab

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



adg21 @ Wed 08 Aug said:


> Does it download quicker if I watch it downloading, please advise.



1. Burn all other woodwinds libraries you posess.
2. Form a pentagram with the charred remains.
3. Say the following: "Oh gods of Continuata and Orchestral Tools, be my guides and enhance the speed of obtaining your work of wonder."
4. Wait 666 seconds.
5. Watch your download finish immediately.

Yours sincerely,
Reverend Woody Wind


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



adg21 @ Wed Aug 08 said:


> Does it download quicker if I watch it downloading, please advise.



   Probably, but you may want to go to bed for awhile and check back in the morning! It's still going to be a loo-o-o-o-ng download.

******************
PS: Yes, Hendrik, I did receive two e-mails, but the installation guide said to use the serial number so that's what I did. What was the purpose of the message with the alpha/numeric code? Was it the way things were supposed to work originally and then some changes were made or something? Doesn't really matter though, and hopefully most folks will figure out that it's the NI code that is required.


----------



## 667

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



playz123 @ Wed Aug 08 said:


> PS: Yes, Hendrik, I did receive two e-mails, but the installation guide said to use the serial number so that's what I did. What was the purpose of the message with the alpha/numeric code? Was it the way things were supposed to work originally and then some changes were made or something? Doesn't really matter though, and hopefully most folks will figure out that it's the NI code that is required.


I think so-- mine started using the first code but then stopped working when I did pause/resume a bit later. I had to restart using the 'NI' code.


----------



## uCtaudio

I just completed downloading and the installer crashed!

..trying to unpack manually see how that goes

update: but for some strange reason i have two "command line unrar" sessions working in the background, eventhough the installer shows no progressbar and is totaly blank.. but my "sample" get added files, so hope it's all right


----------



## 667

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Continuata crashed, and when I restart it tries to download all the RAR's again. :(


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

okay... How big is the size of all of the rar-packages on your system? (-> Must be around 54 GB).
Are you working on Mac or PC?

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## 667

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

5 RAR's downloaded. But the Continuata downloader doesn't just check/verify the already downloaded files and resume where it left off-- it's re-downloading the first files.

I'm going to use the web downloader to complete it.


----------



## adg21

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Solution: Continuata needs to let you re-arrange the "queued" order, so that it doesn't force you to start from "part01.rar"


----------



## synergy543

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Wed Aug 08 said:


> okay... How big is the size of all of the rar-packages on your system? (-> Must be around 54 GB).
> Are you working on Mac or PC?
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik


Hendrik,

How much total disk space is required for BOTH the downloads and the extraction together? 
(since it self extracts onto the same drive). 

I'm pressed for space and moving large files around takes some time so a close estimate of the total required (for download + extraction) would be most helpful.

Thanks,

Greg


----------



## autopilot

Screaming down teh internets at 8MB per second to me. Looking forward to it.


----------



## bwherry

Man, I'm glad I decided to download at work (with their blessing) instead of at home. 15.78 MB/s!!


----------



## 667

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Hendrik, how many computers can we install this on? I'm planning on upgrading my DAW PC sometime soon. Will there be issues authorizing the library on a new PC? Do I need to send an email in, or does BWW allow installation on 2 PCs out-of-the-box?

I'm hesitant to "burn" one when I'm going to be upgrading so soon but there's no way I can wait to try this out! 



adg21 @ Wed Aug 08 said:


> Solution: Continuata needs to let you re-arrange the "queued" order, so that it doesn't force you to start from "part01.rar"


Some control in the interface would probably be a good thing.

I think they should run a CRC check on the files in the download folder instead of relying on the XML file, which can be out of sync with the status of the download if the program has crashed or is terminated due to being hung. Big downloads like this tend to be prone to errors/hangs so the odds of users having issues are probably higher than normal. So the download utility should have robust failure handling, CRC checking, maybe even some parity built-in to repair files (or make use of RAR's built-in parity option...)


----------



## Dominik Raab

667:
If I'm not mistaken, this is a Kontakt Player library and has to be authorized using NI's service center. Native Instruments' terms apply:

http://www.native-instruments.com/knowl ... omputer%3F


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



667 @ Wed Aug 08 said:


> 5 RAR's downloaded. But the Continuata downloader doesn't just check/verify the already downloaded files and resume where it left off-- it's re-downloading the first files.
> 
> I'm going to use the web downloader to complete it.



Yes...stopped dead after 4 files for me. Downloading this library one file at a time could be extremely tedious, and even though I supposedly have a "high speed connection" downloading is going very slowly. Nice that some of you have been successful though.


----------



## 667

Yeah still trying to get that last file! Just a heads-up: I've downloaded berlin_woodwinds_samples.part09.rar a few times and I'm pretty sure it's corrupt. It's come out the wrong size (different than the others) each time. Trying again now on a second PC.

The Continuata XML has the filesize for each file listed, and they're all the same except the last one, part 13. So, I'm a bit worried that part 09 keeps coming down as 4.2 instead of 4.6 GB. 



Dominik Raab @ Wed Aug 08 said:


> 667:
> If I'm not mistaken, this is a Kontakt Player library and has to be authorized using NI's service center. Native Instruments' terms apply:
> 
> http://www.native-instruments.com/knowl ... omputer%3F


Actually I think that applies only to NI products-- developers can set their own activations limit. I may be mistaken in this but I know that devs can reset activations if you tell them what computer (in the NI service center) you want to remove licenses for.

Anyway I think I found the answer in the BWW License Agreement PDF:



> This license entitles this one individual to install and use BERLIN WOODWINDS on up to three
> computers or samplers provided they are the sole owner of these devices.


I always appreciate that third license (2 DAWs and a laptop).


----------



## autopilot

I gave up on the continuata downlaoder after it's third crash. On a Mac. Using 10.6.7. Downlaoded the files individually - so far OK - not finished yet though. (Seem to remember doing the same thing with Sphere BTW) 

FWIW I have a 4.7 gig version of 09. 

On the other hand part 11 is 6.51 gig so I'm pretty sure I'll give it another go  

Nearly there.


----------



## audiot

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Experienced the same problems mentioned here. Continuata crashed after file 7 (file 1 stopped at 4.2 GB, files 2-6 seem to be ok) and it tried to re-download the files (the program name should be changed to "Dis-Continuata"  ). Now using the webdownloader.


----------



## vrocko

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Same problem here, crashed during part12.rar and when I resumed it skipped to part13.rar leaving part 12 at 640MB's. It then started installing and keeps crashing at 98%.

I have a problem with continuata every time. I dont like them at all right now. :evil:


----------



## dfhagai

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Big problems with Continua, again....
I'll try to download manually.


----------



## audiot

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Manual download via weblinks doesn't work for me either :? . The download ends after 1.2 GB file size. Now using Continuata-Downloader again, anyway it doesn't try to re-download again. Does anybody know how to re-download the broken files within the program (status message ist "Downloaded" but that's not right)?
Maybe these problems are a test or a method for increasing the anticipation? :D


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

After Continuata failed my first run, I switched to manual downloading. But, like others, a few of my files stopped before they were completely downloaded. I've had to re-download 5 files and after nearly 12 hours of downloading, I'm finally about to finish.

Hendrik, I would definitely check into other solutions for downloading as it seems a lot of people are having a rough time with it.

Cheers.


----------



## Dominik Raab

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



noxtenebrae17 @ Wed 08 Aug said:


> After Continuata failed my first run, I switched to manual downloading. But, like others, a few of my files stopped before they were completely downloaded. I've had to re-download 5 files and after nearly 12 hours of downloading, I'm finally about to finish.
> 
> Hendrik, I would definitely check into other solutions for downloading as it seems a lot of people are having a rough time with it.
> 
> Cheers.



This is weird. I have, so far, only had good experience with Continuata. Orchestral Tools switched to Continuata only a few weeks ago because it seemed to be a way better solution than what they had had before. Haven't downloaded BWW yet, so I can't tell if there's something wrong with the files - but this doesn't look like what I know of the Continuata service.
Bummer :(


----------



## Graham Keitch

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Likewise. Crashed overnight. First RAR says it completed download - but the green progress bar for that bit of it is less than 14% and file size is given as 640.

Unfortunately, my provider slaps on a massive surcharge if I exceed my 40GB monthly broadband allowance so I'm going to have a hefty bill this month - which will be even greater if I'm left with aborted downloads and have to start again.

I'm continuing with the download (RAR 2 is currently in progress) but am keeping an eye on this thread to see how others are getting on. To be fair, this is a massive download and I know lot's of things can contribute to the difficulties - including the service providers wading in and killing things off if they think you're hogging bandwidth!

Fingers crossed!

Graham


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

I remember how horrible a download experience Adagio was - AFAIK it used Continuata as well.... Right now I have one file (4) stuck at 13% according to the downloader, but the filesize is 4.67GB (should be 4.7), so I am trying to download that manually... I think it is a disgrace though, that there is no simple "re-download", or even better, a "resume" button for each file in the Continuata downloader. Amazing oversight.


----------



## JB78

My first attempt on my Mac crashed after 8 or 9 completed rar's. Tried again on my PC-Slave since that's where I'll have it anyway and had no problem at all with the download. Pretty quick as well with an average of 10 mb/sec. Once it was done though the app crashed during installation but kept going in the background somehow and from what I can see everything seems to be there. Looking forward to trying it out now!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Maybe the size of the several parts is the problem for some of you (4.7 GB). We´re thinking about uploading the same thing in 1GB parts (maybe that could solve the problem). I contacted Continuata now....

I´ll keep you updated.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

AFAIK, Adagio wasn't Continuata, and was difficult.

FWIW I'm downloading here all ok for the moment


----------



## Simon Ravn

jamwerks,

OK well none of them have worked as they should for me (and quite a few others), either way


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Continuata for me used to be great, when it had the very simple interface. Since this new 'connect' system I don't think I've had a successful experience yet. Always have to end up relying on manual links.

Edit: In saying that, I am half way through the download without a hitch so far, but my bad experiences have usually been at the end.


----------



## Graham Keitch

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Maybe the size of the several parts is the problem for some of you (4.7 GB). We´re thinking about uploading the same thing in 1GB parts (maybe that could solve the problem). I contacted Continuata now....
> 
> I´ll keep you updated.
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Thanks Hendrik

Graham


----------



## vrocko

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Ok... After thirteen hours I am finally up and running. My Continuata crashed during the part12.rar and during installation. I manually downloaded part12 then manually unrared. I followed the instructions that Hendrick provided and all is smooth. I played with it for about ten minutes so I won't make to much of a comment, but what I noticed right away was very smooth dynamic transitions in the legato patches. Gonna be up a while playing with it. I hope everyone is up and running soon.


Edit- I forgot to mention how wonderful the tone and the space is well done Hendrick.


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Hi guys, I've just got up over here in the UK to some of you having some problems with Berlin Woodwinds downloads, let me try and answer some questions to help you.

We've been running our new downloader with virtually no issues over the last few weeks, so it looks like the format of Berlin Woodwinds is stressing the local networks for some.

We normally advise our customers use smaller files (e.g. 1GB each), this is for several reasons and could be the reason why some are getting instability. Orchestral Tool was made aware of this yesterday and will hopefully be re-uploading the library in smaller parts.

The Connect Installer downloads the library using multiple connections to get the maximum speed out of your broadband connection, this is why we download one file at a time ... It is much faster over all networks and connection speeds.
However downloading this fast can upset your internet provider sometimes and they can disconnect the connections, which causes the crash. (we are fixing the crash issue currently)
However, you should be able to start the download again and it will start up where it left off.
If it doesn't ... you likely chose a different target directory when restarting (someone did this yesterday)

Also please remember you need 100GB of free space to download and install this library.

Sometimes parts corrupt on download on a few people's machines, this is often a side-effect of downloading quickly on large files (this can only be avoided by downloading slower)... we check for corruption when trying to install and automatically redownload corrupt parts, this is another reason why we encourage devs to upload in 1GB RARs ... as redownloading a 4.5GB file because of a few corrupt bytes is a waste of time and bandwidth.

Those who are having issues will likely have them using manual downloading too, although it is likely to be slightly more stable due to running only one thread ... however the Connect downloader checks for corruption automatically and redownloads any corrupt parts until the library extracts, which is a bit of a nightmare to do manually.

The problems you are facing with this download are nothing to do with Continuata .... they are to do with the size of the library being downloaded and the size of the individual files. The fact that many of you on here are having similar problems when attempting to download manually proves that fact. (manual downloading uses your browser not our downloader)
We have thousands of people using our system to download large libraries every month (8dio Adagio is not one of them ... as has been suggested on this board) and we very rarely get issues. 

If you are having an issue downloading PLEASE contact me on support(at)continuata.com and I will do everything I can to help you get to the end

Stu


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



Blakus @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Continuata for me used to be great, when it had the very simple interface. Since this new 'connect' system I don't think I've had a successful experience yet. Always have to end up relying on manual links.
> 
> Edit: In saying that, I am half way through the download without a hitch so far, but my bad experiences have usually been at the end.



please let me know how you get on ... Connect is much more stable now than it was in the first week we brought it out, so hopefully you don't hit any issues. Although the large file size (4.5GB) seems to be making it easier to get corrupt files through ISP intervention.


----------



## Dominik Raab

Stu,

I'm just downloading using the manual links. The Continuata Installer crashed while installing the first part. Even when it worked it was slow. My connection can handle up to 6 MB/s, the installer gave me 500 kb/s. Using the direct links I've got my full speed.

While I like your service a lot and the direct links work perfectly, I can't really dig your installer. I don't mean to be offensive, but it's certainly not my provider cutting the connection due to high-speed downloading, as firstly the downloading wasn't high-speed at all, and secondly the manual download works perfectly well.



> Those who are having issues will likely have them using manual downloading too, although it is likely to be slightly more stable due to running only one thread



Nope, no problems 



> checks for corruption automatically and redownloads any corrupt parts until the library extracts, which is a bit of a nightmare to do manually.



Not a nightmare for 13 parts, at least in my opinion.


----------



## audiot

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Thank you for the clarification, Stu! So I hope that the corrupted (but as completed shown) files will be re-downloaded after the continuata crc-check.


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



playz123 @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> 667 @ Wed Aug 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 RAR's downloaded. But the Continuata downloader doesn't just check/verify the already downloaded files and resume where it left off-- it's re-downloading the first files.
> 
> I'm going to use the web downloader to complete it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...stopped dead after 4 files for me. Downloading this library one file at a time could be extremely tedious, and even though I supposedly have a "high speed connection" downloading is going very slowly. Nice that some of you have been successful though.
Click to expand...


Hi Frank, is it going slowly in the downloader? What speed are you getting? What is your connection max speed normally? 

The file size is causing some ISPs to intervene and throttle the download as we connect using several threads. They tend not to notice when the filesize is smaller (i.e. 1GB) ... I think that's what's happening. I've mentioned to Orchestral Tools about creating smaller files ... I'll chase that up today, that may fix this.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Hi Stu,

thanks for your explaination and help.
We´ll do everything now to upload 1GB parts as mentioned. And we´ll do it as fast as possible. 

I got some mails from users who are playing around already with the library. So I´m sure we´ll get you all through the downloading process...

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## bdr

Manual downloading worked flawlessly.


----------



## continuata

Dominik Raab @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Stu,
> 
> I'm just downloading using the manual links. The Continuata Installer crashed while installing the first part. Even when it worked it was slow. My connection can handle up to 6 MB/s, the installer gave me 500 kb/s. Using the direct links I've got my full speed.
> 
> While I like your service a lot and the direct links work perfectly, I can't really dig your installer. I don't mean to be offensive, but it's certainly not my provider cutting the connection due to high-speed downloading, as firstly the downloading wasn't high-speed at all, and secondly the manual download works perfectly well.



Hi Dominik .. that is your ISP throttling the connection. The downloader uses multiple threads to download each file which makes a download run a lot faster than normal. Because these files are larger than normal (and sometimes just because the file is hosted on Amazon S3 servers) ISPs mark the download as a threat to the allocated bandwidth and throttle the download. That is why you're getting a faster download with the single-threaded download in your browser. 

When Orchestral Tools re-uploads the files in smaller chunks it will possibly fix that, if not you're better off downloading manually until we introduce our variable thread option, so you can reduce the threads in our downloader and get the higher speed you get from a single connection.

I hope that explains what's going on a bit more clearly


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



audiot @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Thank you for the clarification, Stu! So I hope that the corrupted (but as completed shown) files will be re-downloaded after the continuata crc-check.



yes, any corrupt parts are identified at install and re-downloaded by the installer


----------



## Dominik Raab

continuata @ Thu 09 Aug said:


> Dominik Raab @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stu,
> 
> I'm just downloading using the manual links. The Continuata Installer crashed while installing the first part. Even when it worked it was slow. My connection can handle up to 6 MB/s, the installer gave me 500 kb/s. Using the direct links I've got my full speed.
> 
> While I like your service a lot and the direct links work perfectly, I can't really dig your installer. I don't mean to be offensive, but it's certainly not my provider cutting the connection due to high-speed downloading, as firstly the downloading wasn't high-speed at all, and secondly the manual download works perfectly well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Dominik .. that is your ISP throttling the connection. The downloader uses multiple threads to download each file which makes a download run a lot faster than normal. Because these files are larger than normal (and sometimes just because the file is hosted on Amazon S3 servers) ISPs mark the download as a threat to the allocated bandwidth and throttle the download. That is why you're getting a faster download with the single-threaded download in your browser.
> 
> When Orchestral Tools re-uploads the files in smaller chunks it will possibly fix that, if not you're better off downloading manually until we introduce our variable thread option, so you can reduce the threads in our downloader and get the higher speed you get from a single connection.
> 
> I hope that explains what's going on a bit more clearly
Click to expand...


Aah, that explains a lot. Thank you, Stu! And thumbs-up for the customer care and support efficiency you're showing. It's always great to feel valued as a customer. I'm being honest here, no windy "thanks for flying with Raab Air" phrases.


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Dominik: thanks :D


----------



## Graham Keitch

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

I've decided to kill this. Just completed the download of RAR 2 (all 4+GB) - and now the installer has started to download it all over again rather than move on to RAR 3.

Will retry once the smaller file sizes are available as things are clearly not working correctly for me. 

I know you guys are working to fix this so I'll await further news.

Thanks, Graham


----------



## Bernard Quatermass

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

I am leaving the download until this is sorted out. Too much time and stress involved otherwise.


----------



## adg21

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

If you upload smaller files don't kill the large ones just yet, as some of us have spent the last 12 hours downloading and are nearly there.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

We´re planning to do an alternative product entry for that.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Mihkel Zilmer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*

Everything went without any problems over here. I've downloaded and installed the library and just gave it a quick try - it sounds truly inspirational!


----------



## khollister

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



Blakus @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Continuata for me used to be great, when it had the very simple interface. Since this new 'connect' system I don't think I've had a successful experience yet. Always have to end up relying on manual links.
> 
> Edit: In saying that, I am half way through the download without a hitch so far, but my bad experiences have usually been at the end.



++++1

Ever since the "universal" Connect app that installs an icon for each client company, I have always had a install crash and often a DL crash. BWW last night was no different. Had an interrupted DL, restarted, crashed on install. Did a manual unrar, had 2 CRC errors. DL'ed the corrupted part manually and manually unrar'ed the file - we're good.

My ISP is not the problem - I had a solid 5MBs DL all the way (I'm on a 40Mb wideband connection).


----------



## audiot

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



continuata @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> audiot @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the clarification, Stu! So I hope that the corrupted (but as completed shown) files will be re-downloaded after the continuata crc-check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, any corrupt parts are identified at install and re-downloaded by the installer
Click to expand...


Sorry, Stu, but that does not work for me. My download hast just finished, but the corrupted files (above all 1 and 7) will not be re-downloaded.
Furthermore the Continuata-Application crashes permanently when trying to re-start it. At first it shows the already downloaded files (even the damaged files which does not fit the size like file 1 about 640 MB but no re-download) but then it crashes again and again. The file "bww_files" is corrupted, too (CRC-check fails).
Any help? Thanks in advance!


----------



## audiot

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

Another message now:
After having re-started the Connect.exe-program several times it shows now (not before) an error-status of the file "bww_instruments_WM0186". Then it tries to re-download it but then ... crash! File size of file 1 and 7 is around 640 MB but on HDD they are 4.2 and 4.7 GB. Nevertheless a background process of the application seems to have unpacked the files. The file "Berlin Woodwinds.nicnt" is missing (as shown in the pdf install file). The two container files are at the right place inside the sample folder.
Hope this helps you finding a solution with providing that info?!


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



adg21 @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> If you upload smaller files don't kill the large ones just yet, as some of us have spent the last 12 hours downloading and are nearly there.



yes :D we've discussed all that ... don't worry


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



audiot @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> continuata @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> audiot @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the clarification, Stu! So I hope that the corrupted (but as completed shown) files will be re-downloaded after the continuata crc-check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, any corrupt parts are identified at install and re-downloaded by the installer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, Stu, but that does not work for me. My download hast just finished, but the corrupted files (above all 1 and 7) will not be re-downloaded.
> Furthermore the Continuata-Application crashes permanently when trying to re-start it. At first it shows the already downloaded files (even the damaged files which does not fit the size like file 1 about 640 MB but no re-download) but then it crashes again and again. The file "bww_files" is corrupted, too (CRC-check fails).
> Any help? Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...


Hi sorry for the delay ... please could you email me at support(at)continuata.net
1) The XML file in your target directory
2) the crash log you get when the app crashes

Can you explain what "crashes" means? 

Best

Stu


----------



## Pedro Camacho

Hmm special price is over already?


----------



## audiot

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

Thanks for your reply! I have just sent you the xml-file and the crash details ("crash" means that the program freezes and does not react any more --- I attached a screenshot to my mail.


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



audiot @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Another message now:
> After having re-started the Connect.exe-program several times it shows now (not before) an error-status of the file "bww_instruments_WM0186". Then it tries to re-download it but then ... crash! File size of file 1 and 7 is around 640 MB but on HDD they are 4.2 and 4.7 GB. Nevertheless a background process of the application seems to have unpacked the files. The file "Berlin Woodwinds.nicnt" is missing (as shown in the pdf install file). The two container files are at the right place inside the sample folder.
> Hope this helps you finding a solution with providing that info?!



is there a reason you're posting this on VI instead of sending me a support email?
I have received 1 support email in total so far which related to someone choosing the wrong folder when restarting the app. Do you really think it's fair that I have to search VI control forum to find out if people are having issues.

I need to see the crash logs if you get a crash ... we've been trying to replicate the crash here ... but just can't get it to crash.
It looks like the crash is caused by an ISP drop-out ... as explained earlier in this thread, the larger than normal file-sizes (created by Orchestral Tools) are creating problems with ISP traffic modelling when downloading with our downloader, because we use multiple threads and some ISPs consider it unfair usage to download "large files too quickly", this is why we advise devs use 1GB file sizes for their RAR parts.
The crash is a bug in our code, but it is being triggered by ISP disconnection, so most people don't encounter it ... we can fix the crash if we can get hold of your crash logs. But can't see where it's happening otherwise.

Your file sizes are wrong because the crash has caused the app to quit before it wrote the correct size to the XML file. They should be fine .... when it gets to the end, if there is any corruption it will redownload them.

Some people are claiming that the app is crashing on install ... but it is possible that because there is inactivity for a prolonged period they are assuming it has crashed. The fact is that the extraction process takes a long time, and is not able to update the progress bar until an entire file has been extracted ... this can take a long time.
The progress bar may not move for 10 minutes or so ... remember this is 54GB!
We are working on an improvement in our next Connect version which will look at file sizes to update the progress more continuously.

PLEASE contact me directly if you have any more issues ... I will be able to help better if I know who you are as I can look at the progress of your download here.


----------



## audiot

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

Sorry, Stu, no offense at all and no bashing intended.
The last time i used Continuata it was all right. I have just not known your support mail and meant this forum to be a support forum. As mentioned above, I have just sent you the requested files!
Excuse me and thank you very much for your help!


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



khollister @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Ever since the "universal" Connect app that installs an icon for each client company, I have always had a install crash and often a DL crash. BWW last night was no different. Had an interrupted DL, restarted, crashed on install. Did a manual unrar, had 2 CRC errors. DL'ed the corrupted part manually and manually unrar'ed the file - we're good.
> 
> My ISP is not the problem - I had a solid 5MBs DL all the way (I'm on a 40Mb wideband connection).



1) we don't install an icon for each company any more ... you can delete all those if you have them on your machine, it's just one app now.

2) instability is related to your network instability/ ISP traffic management, which we push to the limit ... some ISPs get particularly upset and can cause corruption and connection drops when they think you're using their network in an "unfair" manner. This is why you won't normally hit those issues, we're working on ways to dupe the ISPs further into letting you get the full speed from your connection throughout the whole download.

3) the crashing is a bug in our code that is triggered by the ISP/network instability ... we can fix it when we can see where it's occurring, but since none of us can replicate the crash we can't fix it yet ... this is why I ask that if you get a crash and the crash report dialog comes up, you get the details and email them to me at support(at)continuata.com

4) How did it "crash" on install? Did it just hang and seem to take a long time? Or did the app crash & quit?

We've had to move to this new Native Mac/PC universal installer solution to overcome the fact that Apple are making it hard to deploy and run Java apps now. So we're working hard to try and get it running perfect for everyone ... as you can imagine our old Java installer was over 2 years mature, so pretty much all bugs had been stamped out long ago, now we have to start again with new code. However, we are getting much less issues in general since we've moved away from Java, and need your help in letting us know when there are problems so we can stamp out the last remaining ones in this app.

thanks for your patience. I'm completely committed to making this the best experience for the end-user ... because I am one (being a composer/producer myself) ... I know how annoying it is when DLing goes wrong, that's why I started Continuata.


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



audiot @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Sorry, Stu, no offense at all and no bashing intended.
> The last time i used Continuata it was all right. I have just not known your support mail and meant this forum to be a support forum. As mentioned above, I have just sent you the requested files!
> Excuse me and thank you very much for your help!



No problem at all :D


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



audiot @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Sorry, Stu, no offense at all and no bashing intended.
> The last time i used Continuata it was all right. I have just not known your support mail and meant this forum to be a support forum. As mentioned above, I have just sent you the requested files!
> Excuse me and thank you very much for your help!



I haven't received an email yet ... could you send it to info(at)continuata.com instead?


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

So through Continuata are there just 7 rar files?

FWIW, I'm finishing #4 and all seems to be going fine (OS 10.6.8).
Internet is fairly slow at my house (260kb/s). Maybe that's better....


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



continuata @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> playz123 @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 667 @ Wed Aug 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 RAR's downloaded. But the Continuata downloader doesn't just check/verify the already downloaded files and resume where it left off-- it's re-downloading the first files.
> 
> I'm going to use the web downloader to complete it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...stopped dead after 4 files for me. Downloading this library one file at a time could be extremely tedious, and even though I supposedly have a "high speed connection" downloading is going very slowly. Nice that some of you have been successful though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hi Frank, is it going slowly in the downloader? What speed are you getting? What is your connection max speed normally?
> 
> The file size is causing some ISPs to intervene and throttle the download as we connect using several threads. They tend not to notice when the filesize is smaller (i.e. 1GB) ... I think that's what's happening. I've mentioned to Orchestral Tools about creating smaller files ... I'll chase that up today, that may fix this.
Click to expand...


Hi Stu,
Continuata stopped (or was stopped by my ISP) overnight again, but I successfully restarted it when I got up. Download speeds are between 700 and 1100 kB/s...mostly the former. Perhaps this may be considered "normal", but I've experienced much faster speeds previously as well as much slower ones, so that's not much of an answer 

A couple of question:
Due to a restart of Continuata yesterday, it's showing file 4 as 14% downloaded, BUT in my folder, the size of the file indicates it was downloaded completely. Which is correct?
Will the downloader run a check at the end of the process so that I know that I have all the files and they are all the correct size? I'm currently on file 12 so hopefully am getting closer.

Your suggestion about an ISP halting a download for various reasons is probably accurate since I've always had excellent results with Continuata, and the program itself seems to be performing well with this download, in spite of the excessively large file sizes. It looks as if my ISP might be responsible for the stoppages, not Continuata. I'm hoping I'm getting closer to completion, but do have some concerns yet about all the files ending up the correct size. Thanks for your help! Cheers.

PS: I don't feel my questions are issues requiring technical support type answers right now....in fact they aren't even 'pressing' I guess, so that's why I posted a reply here rather than send you a support request directly.


----------



## khollister

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



continuata @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> khollister @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ever since the "universal" Connect app that installs an icon for each client company, I have always had a install crash and often a DL crash. BWW last night was no different. Had an interrupted DL, restarted, crashed on install. Did a manual unrar, had 2 CRC errors. DL'ed the corrupted part manually and manually unrar'ed the file - we're good.
> 
> My ISP is not the problem - I had a solid 5MBs DL all the way (I'm on a 40Mb wideband connection).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1) we don't install an icon for each company any more ... you can delete all those if you have them on your machine, it's just one app now.
> 
> 2) instability is related to your network instability/ ISP traffic management, which we push to the limit ... some ISPs get particularly upset and can cause corruption and connection drops when they think you're using their network in an "unfair" manner. This is why you won't normally hit those issues, we're working on ways to dupe the ISPs further into letting you get the full speed from your connection throughout the whole download.
> 
> 3) the crashing is a bug in our code that is triggered by the ISP/network instability ... we can fix it when we can see where it's occurring, but since none of us can replicate the crash we can't fix it yet ... this is why I ask that if you get a crash and the crash report dialog comes up, you get the details and email them to me at support(at)continuata.com
> 
> 4) How did it "crash" on install? Did it just hang and seem to take a long time? Or did the app crash & quit?
> 
> We've had to move to this new Native Mac/PC universal installer solution to overcome the fact that Apple are making it hard to deploy and run Java apps now. So we're working hard to try and get it running perfect for everyone ... as you can imagine our old Java installer was over 2 years mature, so pretty much all bugs had been stamped out long ago, now we have to start again with new code. However, we are getting much less issues in general since we've moved away from Java, and need your help in letting us know when there are problems so we can stamp out the last remaining ones in this app.
> 
> thanks for your patience. I'm completely committed to making this the best experience for the end-user ... because I am one (being a composer/producer myself) ... I know how annoying it is when DLing goes wrong, that's why I started Continuata.
Click to expand...


When I say "crash", I mean "the application has quit unexpectedly" message in OS X with a crash log. Hard crash, application termination - NOT timeout.

And as I told you, I had uninterrupted 5MBs throughput (the limit of my ISP connection) for 2-3 hours before the crashes, so this has nothing to do with that. I have a premium service tier with absolutely no throttling or other limitations.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

Hey Guys,

we´ve started the upload now for the version with 1GB/each package. I´m pretty happy that we found a company in my region here with a backbone connection to upload this as fast as possible. If everything works fine, the packages will be uploaded tomorrow morning. 

So, I think we can solve this 1GB issue until tomorrow.

The uploading problem is my mistake. I´m really sorry for that and I´m sure the Continuata Downloader will perform much better with the smaller files.

All the best,

Hendrik


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



khollister @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> When I say "crash", I mean "the application has quit unexpectedly" message in OS X with a crash log. Hard crash, application termination - NOT timeout.
> 
> And as I told you, I had uninterrupted 5MBs throughput (the limit of my ISP connection) for 2-3 hours before the crashes, so this has nothing to do with that. I have a premium service tier with absolutely no throttling or other limitations.



Could you please email the crash log to me on info(at)continuata.com ... cheers, that would be very helpful indeed.


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



playz123 @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Hi Stu,
> Continuata stopped (or was stopped by my ISP) overnight again, but I successfully restarted it when I got up. Download speeds are between 700 and 1100 kB/s...mostly the former. Perhaps this may be considered "normal", but I've experienced much faster speeds previously as well as much slower ones, so that's not much of an answer
> 
> A couple of question:
> Due to a restart of Continuata yesterday, it's showing file 4 as 14% downloaded, BUT in my folder, the size of the file indicates it was downloaded completely. Which is correct?
> Will the downloader run a check at the end of the process so that I know that I have all the files and they are all the correct size? I'm currently on file 12 so hopefully am getting closer.
> 
> Your suggestion about an ISP halting a download for various reasons is probably accurate since I've always had excellent results with Continuata, and the program itself seems to be performing well with this download, in spite of the excessively large file sizes. It looks as if my ISP might be responsible for the stoppages, not Continuata. I'm hoping I'm getting closer to completion, but do have some concerns yet about all the files ending up the correct size. Thanks for your help! Cheers.
> 
> PS: I don't feel my questions are issues requiring technical support type answers right now....in fact they aren't even 'pressing' I guess, so that's why I posted a reply here rather than send you a support request directly.



Hi Frank ... yeah sounds like you had a stall during the night, that has caused the 14% error. It should be fine though, all the file should be there. It's possible though that some of the file got lost on the stall and it will re-download that when it comes to install them. Thanks for the info ... Best Stu


----------



## MaestroRage

as a quick tip, everybody getting it or already gotten it, consider doing a batch re-save on your library to drastically improve loading times (by literally 10x by my time).

Files -> Batch Resave -> Select Berlin Woodwinds folder


----------



## adg21

MaestroRage @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> as a quick tip, everybody getting it or already gotten it, consider doing a batch re-save on your library to drastically improve loading times (by literally 10x by my time).
> 
> Files -> Batch Resave -> Select Berlin Woodwinds folder


Out of interest does anyone know why libraries are not shipped in a batch-resaved state already?


----------



## Freesamples

Unpacking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MaestroRage

adg21 @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> MaestroRage @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> as a quick tip, everybody getting it or already gotten it, consider doing a batch re-save on your library to drastically improve loading times (by literally 10x by my time).
> 
> Files -> Batch Resave -> Select Berlin Woodwinds folder
> 
> 
> 
> Out of interest does anyone know why libraries are not shipped in a batch-resaved state already?
Click to expand...


No clue. But the performance you get is immeasurable. Many of my patches don't even have loading times anymore, just bam ready to go right away. Without this using libraries like voxos and Cinematic Strings killed me.


----------



## adg21

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

Oh, just realised it's probably because people use different versions of Kontakt, batch resave in Kontakt 5 = library does not work in Kontakt 4. I think.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

We always batch resave our libraries. BWW is batch resaved too.

But what MaestroRage mentioned is a personal batch resave to make the loading times much faster. That´s a great thing. I do that as well on my libraries.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## khollister

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

Anyone else notice a script warning? I was primarily playing with the legato patches last night and noticed a warning on every note played - something like "script WARNING - release ADSR object not found" I am not at the studio computer right now, so I am operating from memory. I will experiment some this evening and see if it occurs on all of the articulations or just legato.

I installed per the instructions and nothing seems wrong sound-wise other than the legatos are not quite as "legato" as I expected based on the demos. There seems to be a bit more attack between notes.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

@khollister: Don´t worry about the script warning. That´s a normal thing. 

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## khollister

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> @khollister: Don´t worry about the script warning. That´s a normal thing.
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



OK - thanks Hendrik

Keith


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



khollister @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> I installed per the instructions and nothing seems wrong sound-wise other than the legatos are not quite as "legato" as I expected based on the demos. There seems to be a bit more attack between notes.



Agreed khollister. And I say all of the following as constructive criticism and nitpicking to help Hendrik because the library really has a fantastic sound. But there are a few issues that hold it back:

I think the legato needs a major overhaul. There really isn't a smoothness to many of the transitions. Many of them sound, like khollister said, as if there is an attack (tongued articulation) between the notes. There are also quite a few transitions that have, for lack of a better way of saying it, sloppy crossfading/editing where you hear a very noticeable blip in the sound. The clarinets probably have the best legato in the library (but still have a few inaccuracies here and there). The rest of the library definitely needs some more though.

I also think I've figured out what is causing some of the "chorus" issues that cause a solo instrument to sound like a tutti instrument. Its an issue with the vibrato instruments. Because crossfading occurs throughout the dynamic range, you have vibrato against vibrato which doesn't fade well together thus sometimes giving a chorus effect. Doesn't happen on the non-vib instruments.

The playable runs patches, on the other hand, are absolutely wonderful and sound very spot on. Trills also sounds wonderful and I love the approach to them. All of the shorts sound pretty good. I think, in its current state, the clarinets and bassoons are the highlight of the library. Really great sound.

I really would have loved to see a little higher range on the bassoon. I know its extreme, but I really love that "Rite of Spring" range (which goes up to the D an octave above middle C). All of the other ranges are really wonderful though.

As I said before, I want to be constructive and help make this library better. Thus why I've pointed out the above. Please let me know if you would like more specifics Hendrik.

Cheers.

PS - Is anyone else getting stuck notes on the legato patches? I actually see the key stuck on the Kontakt keyboard and have to re-press it to unstick it.


----------



## bwherry

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



noxtenebrae17 @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> PS - Is anyone else getting stuck notes on the legato patches? I actually see the key stuck on the Kontakt keyboard and have to re-press it to unstick it.



Yup, that has happened to me too. I also agree on the legatos sounding tongued - or that there are really short gaps between the notes. I'm also getting lots of

SCRIPT WARNING: object "Curve_AHDSR" not found - index will be invalid!
SCRIPT WARNING: object "Release_AHDSR" not found - index will be invalid!
SCRIPT WARNING: object "Attack_AHDSR" not found - index will be invalid!

in the legato patches and

SCRIPT WARNING: wrong group index in allow_group

in the _Runs_Transitions patches (which also don't sound quite right). Oh, and all the trills patches are broken - notes go in, no output comes out.

I'm using Kontakt *Player* 5.0.3.5812, on Windows. Are you other guys using Kontakt Player 5 or the full Kontakt 5?

Brian

ps- Am I imagining things or are the release samples of the Piccolo_Flute_Runs_Transitions 1/2 step lower than the note played?


----------



## LTSF

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO by Craig Sharmat*



playz123 @ Sun Aug 05 said:


> I also read re-peat's comments and think I hear something along the lines of what he was suggesting. It does perhaps sound a little as if some of the 'performers' are feeling a little lazy sometimes, but I must also add that it really isn't 'off putting' for me nor does it detract significantly from the overall impressions of the piece.



Resurrecting this discussion, how are the early adopters finding the sound?


----------



## Udo

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



continuata @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> 2) ... some ISPs get particularly upset and can cause corruption and connection drops when they think you're using their network in an "unfair" manner. This is why you won't normally hit those issues,* we're working on ways to dupe the ISPs further *into letting you get the full speed from your connection throughout the whole download.


That appproach/mentality may well continue to cause problems in the future, when ISPs discover what you're doing *(they can)* and put measures in place to stop it, if they don't like it *(they can)*. *Providing some options for users who experience problems would probably reduce future support calls, e.g. an option to use less than maximum available bandwidth.*


----------



## quantum7

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



noxtenebrae17 @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> khollister @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I installed per the instructions and nothing seems wrong sound-wise other than the legatos are not quite as "legato" as I expected based on the demos. There seems to be a bit more attack between notes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed khollister. And I say all of the following as constructive criticism and nitpicking to help Hendrik because the library really has a fantastic sound. But there are a few issues that hold it back:
> 
> I think the legato needs a major overhaul. There really isn't a smoothness to many of the transitions. Many of them sound, like khollister said, as if there is an attack (tongued articulation) between the notes. There are also quite a few transitions that have, for lack of a better way of saying it, sloppy crossfading/editing where you hear a very noticeable blip in the sound. The clarinets probably have the best legato in the library (but still have a few inaccuracies here and there). The rest of the library definitely needs some more though.
> 
> I also think I've figured out what is causing some of the "chorus" issues that cause a solo instrument to sound like a tutti instrument. Its an issue with the vibrato instruments. Because crossfading occurs throughout the dynamic range, you have vibrato against vibrato which doesn't fade well together thus sometimes giving a chorus effect. Doesn't happen on the non-vib instruments.
> 
> The playable runs patches, on the other hand, are absolutely wonderful and sound very spot on. Trills also sounds wonderful and I love the approach to them. All of the shorts sound pretty good. I think, in its current state, the clarinets and bassoons are the highlight of the library. Really great sound.
> 
> I really would have loved to see a little higher range on the bassoon. I know its extreme, but I really love that "Rite of Spring" range (which goes up to the D an octave above middle C). All of the other ranges are really wonderful though.
> 
> As I said before, I want to be constructive and help make this library better. Thus why I've pointed out the above. Please let me know if you would like more specifics Hendrik.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> PS - Is anyone else getting stuck notes on the legato patches? I actually see the key stuck on the Kontakt keyboard and have to re-press it to unstick it.
Click to expand...




bwherry @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> noxtenebrae17 @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PS - Is anyone else getting stuck notes on the legato patches? I actually see the key stuck on the Kontakt keyboard and have to re-press it to unstick it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, that has happened to me too. I also agree on the legatos sounding tongued - or that there are really short gaps between the notes. I'm also getting lots of
> 
> SCRIPT WARNING: object "Curve_AHDSR" not found - index will be invalid!
> SCRIPT WARNING: object "Release_AHDSR" not found - index will be invalid!
> SCRIPT WARNING: object "Attack_AHDSR" not found - index will be invalid!
> 
> in the legato patches and
> 
> SCRIPT WARNING: wrong group index in allow_group
> 
> in the _Runs_Transitions patches (which also don't sound quite right). Oh, and all the trills patches are broken - notes go in, no output comes out.
> 
> I'm using Kontakt *Player* 5.0.3.5812, on Windows. Are you other guys using Kontakt Player 5 or the full Kontakt 5?
> 
> Brian
> 
> ps- Am I imagining things or are the release samples of the Piccolo_Flute_Runs_Transitions 1/2 step lower than the note played?
Click to expand...



Hmmm......problems already with the legato? On the demos it sounds nearly perfect to me. This makes me nervous because I was so close to pressing the "Buy" button on this, but now....... :?


----------



## adg21

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

I fricken love the shorts in this library. But I concur with others that there is something weird going on with the legatos, especially at lower velocities, I'm wondering whether the legato transition moves with the mod-wheel movement or whether its volume is static. I also hear chorus, but, really, that was to be expected with cross-fades on woodwind solo instruments, tough nutshell to crack. Overall generally pleased with the library but I do think some of the legatos could be a bit smoother. The runs are tremendous. So are the 'transition' patches - however I think there might need to be a bit of work on the releases, they might need to be longer. That's my initial reaction, and as with any form of critical listening, your initial reaction does hold some value. Will provide some more feedback when I've spent more time with it though.


----------



## EwigWanderer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

I like the library! Yes there are some issues, but damn it's the best sounding woodwinds library out there. Issues will be fixed I'm sure about it and then again...is there a library that don't have issues in v 1.0?

Thanks Hendrik!


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



blakerobinson @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> If your intent is to be constructive and help the library, perhaps a better way of handling this would be to email the developer personally with your observations and suggestions rather than posting statements such as "_I think the legato needs a major overhaul._" after using the software for less than 24 hours.
> 
> Most developers are pretty friendly and are just as keen as you are to get things ironed out and fixed. It's much easier to read, track and action an email than it is to poke around online forums and sort out valid issues from user errors from nitpicks.



Thanks Blake. I do agree that I may have been a bit disrespectful in the way I phrased my post. Most likely came out of a bit of frustration which is not a good excuse. I'll do better next time.

I apologize if I seemed apprehensive about the situation and I apologize directly to you Hendrik. You're a class act guy and I'll make sure to send you my thoughts in an e-mail.

Cheers.


----------



## re-peat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



quantum7 @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Hmmm......problems already with the legato? On the demos it sounds nearly perfect to me. This makes me nervous because I was so close to pressing the "Buy" button on this, but now....... :?


If you like what you heard on the demos, by all means press ‘Buy’, but know that the library, in its current shape, seems plagued by several imperfections. (Some of which I *really* do not understand in a product which, I assume, went through thorough alpha and beta test-stages.)

Maybe I’m doing something completely wrong here, or maybe my system is unfit to accommodate BWW the way it should be accommodated, could well be — though I hope I may doubt this, it being a Mac QuadCore 2x2.93 with 32gig RAM — but here’s how the 1st Bassoon Legato sounds, straight out of the box (i.o.w. with not a single parameter adjustment):
http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_BassoonLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3) 

It’s obvious that there are several things terribly, terribly wrong here. 

To my ears, the biggest problem with all the legato instruments (not just the bassoon), is the script which controls the behaviour of the legato- and release samples. These samples certainly do not respond to mod-wheel interaction they way they should. (I can make the above example sound noticeably better, by lowering the volume of the release samples, but then we loose other things too of course, things we shouldn't have to loose.)

Also note the puzzling amount of rather disturbing noises in this example. 

Anyway, I don’t really want to discuss BWW in this thread. There’s plenty more to say, but not here, not now.

_


----------



## lamandolina

It's hard to think that BWW sounds like this, I hope it is a bad installation or a corrupt nki...I have 3 more hours till finish the download process...I'm nervous about it...


----------



## studioj

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



re-peat @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> quantum7 @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I’m doing something completely wrong here or maybe my system is unfit to accommodate BWW the way it should be accommodated, could well be — though I hope I may doubt this, it being a Mac QuadCore 2x2.93 with 32gig RAM — but here’s how the 1st Bassoon Legato sounds, straight out of the box (i.o.w. with not a single parameter adjustment):
> http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_BassoonLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
> 
> _
Click to expand...


I do hear a beautiful bassoon tone in your mp3 though underneath the bugs! Looking forward to downloading and installing my pre-order once these kinks are worked out in a v 1.01. 

my guess is corrupt install or incompatible kontakt version.


----------



## vrocko

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

There is definitely something not right in that example. The only time I have encountered that is by turning the"Leg vol knob" to 100 which i would not normally do, I think it sounds best around 45-55. I agree that the legato can be tweaked a little, but I am loving this library so far. 

The only issue I have is with the graphics in the "Articulations Performer" mine are corrupt but hopefully I will hear from hendrik about the fix.


----------



## vrocko

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

.[/quote]
Might be worth poking through the pdf files for any installation guides that come with it. It sounds like the Articulations Performer graphics need to be moved to the Kontakt folder in Documents

Followed the instructions provided in the pdf exactly. Everything is where it is suppose to be but still having issues both on my Mac and PC. But thanks for the advice anyway.


----------



## Dominik Raab

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



blakerobinson @ Thu 09 Aug said:


> vrocko @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only issue I have is with the graphics in the "Articulations Performer" mine are corrupt but hopefully I will hear from hendrik about the fix.
> 
> 
> 
> Might be worth poking through the pdf files for any installation guides that come with it. It sounds like the Articulations Performer graphics need to be moved to the Kontakt folder in Documents
Click to expand...


Aaaand there's a flaw in the document. It's not "C:\Common Files\Native Instruments" and so on, but "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Native Instruments" and so on. If you're using the 32 bit version of Kontakt (Player) 5 on a 64 bit system, it's "C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Native Instruments [...]".
Windows PC only, of course.


----------



## Question

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

Vrocko,

I had the same problem and solved it by taking the "Contents" of the folder (and not the folder with all of its content), and moved it into the place specified in the install manual. 
Not very elegant having all of those graphic files under "Pictures", but that is what it says in the install manual. ie. "Contents" of the folder and not "The folder and its content".

Hope that helps!


----------



## Jack Weaver

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

Hey Developers out there,

You might want to think about using Piet as an Alpha/Beta tester. 

He seems to go through libraries with a fine-toothed comb in a short amount of time and finds all the skeletons. He has a tendency to push articulations beyond typical usage in order to get what he's looking for. 

You might not like to hear what he has to say - but it'd be better to hear it privately in advance (when you still have the opportunity to fix something) as opposed to in fora after it has been released and could be detrimental to sales. 

Anyway, that's what I would do. 

.


----------



## JohannesR

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



Jack Weaver @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Hey Developers out there,
> 
> You might want to think about using Piet as an Alpha/Beta tester.
> 
> He seems to go through libraries with a fine-toothed comb in a short amount of time and finds all the skeletons. He has a tendency to push articulations beyond typical usage in order to get what he's looking for.
> 
> You might not like to hear what he has to say - but it'd be better to hear it privately in advance (when you still have the opportunity to fix something) as opposed to in fora after it has been released and could be detrimental to sales.
> 
> Anyway, that's what I would do.
> 
> .



+1, and he obviously does not read the installation instructions, so developers will know what happens for those who rushes a little too fast :wink:


----------



## jleckie

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



re-peat @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Maybe I’m doing something completely wrong here, or maybe my system is unfit to accommodate BWW the way it should be accommodated, could well be — though I hope I may doubt this, it being a Mac QuadCore 2x2.93 with 32gig RAM — but here’s how the 1st Bassoon Legato sounds, straight out of the box (i.o.w. with not a single parameter adjustment):
> http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_BassoonLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
> 
> It’s obvious that there are several things terribly, terribly wrong here.
> 
> 
> 
> _



oh...

-my.

Its finally happened. After waiting hundreds of years a All NEW instrument is born into the orchestral wind family!  The ba- ba - bassoon.


----------



## vrocko

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



Question @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> Vrocko,
> 
> I had the same problem and solved it by taking the "Contents" of the folder (and not the folder with all of its content), and moved it into the place specified in the install manual.
> Not very elegant having all of those graphic files under "Pictures", but that is what it says in the install manual. ie. "Contents" of the folder and not "The folder and its content".
> 
> Hope that helps!



Good Call. Problem fixed thank you very much for that.


----------



## re-peat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



JohannesR @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> (...) and he obviously does not read the installation instructions (...)


Johannes,

I did actually, and I also did replace those two files (if that is what you are referring to anyway), but I'm still getting this:
http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_ClarinetLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
Not exactly the world's most alluring clarinet, is it? 
(Default legato patch of Clarinet 1 going through some random and, admittedly, rather sloppily played notes. But still.)

Or this: http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_ClarinetLegato2.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... egato2.mp3)
(Same patch. And listen closely.)

Now, I don't know about you, but I feel that a whole lot more files might need to be replaced (not just those two mentioned in the installation guide), before I'm going to like this.

_


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



re-peat @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> JohannesR @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> (...) and he obviously does not read the installation instructions (...)
> 
> 
> 
> Johannes,
> 
> I did actually, and I also did replace those two files (if that is what you are referring to anyway), but I'm still getting this:
> http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_ClarinetLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
> Not exactly the world's most alluring clarinet, is it?
> (Default legato patch of Clarinet 1 going through some random and, admittedly, rather sloppily played notes. But still.)
> 
> Or this: http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_ClarinetLegato2.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... egato2.mp3)
> (Same patch. And listen closely.)
> 
> Now, I don't know about you, but I feel that a whole lot more files might need to be replaced (not just those two mentioned in the installation guide), before I'm going to like this.
> 
> _
Click to expand...


I believe this needs to be fair and the post is not quite. 

I have duplicated the same basic issues by turning up the release samples as mentioned to distasteful levels and then turned them down to create what I feel is a more realistic level.

http://scoredog.tv/BWWex.mp3

In the clarinet example i feel the line moves a bit fast for the legato low register here but it is certainly more passable. I have included a short portato doing the same line as an alternative.

As far as tone as it was mentioned earlier it is a matter of taste and application but knowing how you like to use samples and you use them very well, I can see where you might have an issue. Others may not have a similar issue and find the room blend to their liking, also depends once again on usage.


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

Just wanted to chime in on a couple things that are a bit overlooked right now.

Yes there are some things that can be done with the legato but!

- The runs are absolutely fantastic. Very realistic.
- Speaking of runs, the playable runs are sampled beyond step-wise motion so you can play wider intervals than seconds. Thank you Hendrik!
- The shorts are very realistic and dynamic
- The sustains on most instruments are very expressive (and a more enhanced legato will make them even more so).
- The trills sound very very good. (And the short trills are a wonderful addition!)
- Having ensembles and so much divisi gives a lot of wonderful options for creating more realistic sounding passages.
- The timbre and sound of the library is really clear and Teldex really shines through.

Add a smooth legato to this and you have yourself an absolutely killer library.

Cheers.


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

Just got home and BWW is now downloaded and installed without any problems! So in my case, continuata worked flawlessly for me this time, with a few disconnect/resumes on the way.

Will post my thoughts on the library soon!


----------



## Scrianinoff

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - PRE ORDER ENDS TODAY*



continuata @ Thu 09 Aug said:


> adg21 @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you upload smaller files don't kill the large ones just yet, as some of us have spent the last 12 hours downloading and are nearly there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes :D we've discussed all that ... don't worry
Click to expand...


Well, I guess I should have thrown your advise to the wind, because have a look what's wrong with this picture. It didn't throw an error message, so nothing to send you.
When it works, it's really great. It did the first two times I used Continuata on previous library purchases. The previous (the third) time I had a lot of trouble with corrupted rars, for no apparent reasons, since I never have issues with corrupted files over the Internet. After manually massaging the xml file I was able to download those again with the downloader, which in the end worked fine. This time I gave you the benefit of the doubt and tried Continuata again. Next time I'll try to be as smart as some other guys here, and go for the manual download links.

A few hints:
* When you (try to) write the xml file, save a backup of the previous version. So if anything goes wrong, and it get's corrupted, you can go back to the previous version.

* Write the xml file often, let's say every minute. I saw that it saves it every time you press pause.

This could have saved me the time and effort of massaging the xml file after the whole thing crashed while download the third rar. Guess what? The state of the bww_instruments zip file was 'downloaded', but rar 1 was in state 'downloading', while rar 2 was in 'queued' state. Winrar and 7-zip however found no error in rar 1 and 2, of course they did find errors in rar 3, because that was the one that really should have been in the 'downloading' state. I manually configured the xml file for the downloader to redownload rar 3, since I had no information on where it was with it's parts download locations. This worked, until something apparently went wrong with a mix up of the newer smaller download files interfering with the larger file download sessions. THANKS A LOT FOR THAT!


----------



## Bernard Quatermass

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

I haven't downloaded this yet or even started to download it. 

How it's can be construed as being distasteful that someone is pointing out flaws in something he just bought with good money is totally beyond me. If I go into a store and buy something that is patently faulty, I will go back to the store with it and ask for a refund with immediate effect and will get one by law.

The examples he has put up are totally flawed. What is distasteful about that? It's not personal in anyway.

I will give it a week and if these issues are not forthcoming I will ask for a refund. Simple as that, while at the same time wishing Hendrik & Co the best of wishes with their venture.


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

you heard the demos of Sascha and Craig, so you can be shure this behaviour of the library is either a mistake of the last script tweaking and will be fixed very soon, or: this is something you can handle quite easy while using the library and you just did not find out how yet.
I think I understood the release-samples are not velocity or modwheel sensitive but have a knob which sets their volume, so it may be a good idea to assign the modwheel to both dynamics and release volume. the legato transitions should be quite low in volume, as hendrik mentioned in one of the first videos i think. and don't forget that the library is meant to be played with additional reverb, since the room was chosen for bringing the samples to live and give an authentic feeling of the distance of the instruments. The Teldex hall is not meant to replace a musical reverb, even though one could think so.
btw @hendrik: i don't want to push you, as you may be very busy at the moment, but i would be delighted at having received downloadlinks 
Best, Wolfgang


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



noxtenebrae17 @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> khollister @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I installed per the instructions and nothing seems wrong sound-wise other than the legatos are not quite as "legato" as I expected based on the demos. There seems to be a bit more attack between notes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed khollister. And I say all of the following as constructive criticism and nitpicking to help Hendrik because the library really has a fantastic sound. But there are a few issues that hold it back:
> 
> I think the legato needs a major overhaul. There really isn't a smoothness to many of the transitions. Many of them sound, like khollister said, as if there is an attack (tongued articulation) between the notes.
Click to expand...


I can confirm this. There is plenty to love about this library, but generally the legato has too long attacks on the notes. So each time you play an interval, you get more or less the full attack of that note, which causes sloppiness to the playing. I think this could be at least partially fixed by sample offsetting the attacks on all notes (except the first one that you play in a legato line). Also, a longer release on the samples could somewhat make legato smoother I think.

The staccatos have a mild issue because they have release samples as well. If you play your notes at a length JUST to the end of the sample, you will still get the release sample played, which results in a stutter/2-note effect. I think if there is a way to set back the threshold as to when the RT sample triggers, so it doesn't activate say, if you play 100ms before the end of the sample, that would do the trick. Don't know if this is possible, but as it is now you have to go in and either expand or compress some of your notes to make them fit so that the RT plays before the end of the note is reached, which sounds natural, or it doesn't trigger at all because the end has been reached.

On the other hand there are so many other things to like about this library. I think the tone of the 1st oboe is probably the best in any sampled oboe ever done. And there is also a good amount of air in the samples - and the runs are really great, as are the staccatos. I hope Hendrik will improve the legato implementation, and then I'd love him to expand on this library with a NON 8va-flute ensemble, and a bass clarinet - that would be great!

I would also love to see some "auto divisi" function that automatically assigns chords to flute1, 2 and 3 and so on. But I realize that is probably a big deal, but in a later V2 (paid upgrade), alongside a few more instruments, who knows?


----------



## re-peat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



Craig Sharmat @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> I believe this needs to be fair and the post is not quite.(...)


Craig,

I very much agree that my examples are not ‘fair’ in that they exaggerate behaviour which, in most situations and with only a modest amount of tweaking, would be entirely acceptable, perhaps even enjoyable. Furthermore, there’s no way that such sloppily played performances — I mean that I played them sloppily here, not that they were sloppily played during the Berlin sampling sessions — would ever make it into my (or anyone else’s, I hope) music anyway. So yes, you’re right, these examples of mine don’t tell the whole story. But they do tell part of it.

Because, I really do feel that there’s something not quite right about the script, or scripts, controlling the behaviour of the legato- and the release-samples.
Listen to this, if you please: http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_Distance.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... stance.mp3)
Apart from the fact that the legato- and release-samples' presence and behaviour is rather inconsistent in all these instruments, there’s also the somewhat strange phenomenon that instruments played at low dynamic levels sound much further away than when they’re played at higher dynamics. Whenever they play softer, they sound as if they move away from the microphone. And quite a distance. I guess that, again, this has something to do with the level of the release samples not quite following the dynamic changes (modwheel action) in the way the key-on samples do. Whatever it is, it doesn’t sound right, I think.

Here’s two more examples of inconsistent legato and releases (not to mention the phasing and doubling):
(1) http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_EngHornLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
(2) http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_FluteLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
Both these instruments sound doubled throughout the entire example, to my ears: the flute almost sounds as if it’s doubled with a sinewave, and the English horn seems to be joined by a poorly tuned melodica of some sorts. Honestly, I'm having big difficulties appreciating how this sounds. And these examples contain fairly standard playing, wouldn’t you say so?

And finally, I also ran into this: http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_2ndClarinetLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
2nd Clarinet moving through some notes in various dynamic ranges. No comment. 

And talking about the clarinets: anyone know why neither of them have vibrato? Very strange and regrettable omission, no?

Anyway, now I’m really gonna stop. And I’ll try not to discuss BWW too much in future either (unless explicitly asked), cause it might get unpleasant. Unlike most people it appears, I'm not too pleased with this library. Not happy with how it sounds (rather sterile, chilly and dead, I find, with a few nice exceptions), nor with how it responds.

Come to think of, I just realized that I don’t like *any* of this year’s woodwind libraries. There you go. Must be me.
But I sincerely wish everyone who does, a splendid time with them.

_


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



Simon Ravn @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> I can confirm this. There is plenty to love about this library, but generally the legato has too long attacks on the notes. So each time you play an interval, you get more or less the full attack of that note, which causes sloppiness to the playing. I think this could be at least partially fixed by sample offsetting the attacks on all notes (except the first one that you play in a legato line). Also, a longer release on the samples could somewhat make legato smoother I think.



I believe you are absolutely correct with this. The attack that is left in with each new note overcomes the transition so much that it sounds like the note is re-articulated. I believe sample offsetting would definitely be a good start to fixing the issue. It is hard to tell if that would completely fix the issue though.



Simon Ravn @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> The staccatos have a mild issue because they have release samples as well. If you play your notes at a length JUST to the end of the sample, you will still get the release sample played, which results in a stutter/2-note effect. I think if there is a way to set back the threshold as to when the RT sample triggers, so it doesn't activate say, if you play 100ms before the end of the sample, that would do the trick. Don't know if this is possible, but as it is now you have to go in and either expand or compress some of your notes to make them fit so that the RT plays before the end of the note is reached, which sounds natural, or it doesn't trigger at all because the end has been reached.



Also a good point. Not as pressing but definitely important to note.



Simon Ravn @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> On the other hand there are so many other things to like about this library. I think the tone of the 1st oboe is probably the best in any sampled oboe ever done. And there is also a good amount of air in the samples - and the runs are really great, as are the staccatos. I hope Hendrik will improve the legato implementation, and then I'd love him to expand on this library with a NON 8va-flute ensemble, and a bass clarinet - that would be great!



Agreed! The 1st oboe does sound absolutely gorgeous and with a bit of legato programming help it will be EXTREMELY expressive. I've been praising the runs in this thread already (though the clarinet ensemble runs need a bit of tweaking, seems to have some of the same re-articulated issue as the legato). Hendrik already mentioned before they will record an update with a bass clarinet and contrabassoon (which I'm looking forward to!).

Hang in there Hendrik! We're here to help!

Cheers.


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



re-peat @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> And talking about the clarinets: anyone know why neither of them have vibrato? Very strange and regrettable omission, no?



Classically-trained clarinetists don't typically use vibrato. It's similar to how a french horn doesn't play with vibrato either.


----------



## adg21

Bernard Quatermass @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> I haven't downloaded this yet or even started to download it.
> 
> How it's can be construed as being distasteful that someone is pointing out flaws in something he just bought with good money is totally beyond me. If I go into a store and buy something that is patently faulty, I will go back to the store with it and ask for a refund with immediate effect and will get one by law.
> 
> The examples he has put up are totally flawed. What is distasteful about that? It's not personal in anyway.
> 
> I will give it a week and if these issues are not forthcoming I will ask for a refund. Simple as that, while at the same time wishing Hendrik & Co the best of wishes with their venture.



I completely agree. $700 is how much people are paying now and $700 is a lot of money. There is a fine line between feedback/evaluation and a sense of entitlement but it is my view that any OrchestralTools customer should indeed be allowed to comment & upload examples of elements they dislike / want improved, no matter how small or niche or how nice-a-person/ kind/ helpful the developers are. There is nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*

Hey Guys,

I´ve made a short screencast about how the legatos must sound "out of the box".

http://youtu.be/Ij2IMvbIlmo


We´ve many controllers and variables to change the style of the legato and of course we can "more connect" the samples. An update on this will come during the next days.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



re-peat @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> Here’s two more examples of inconsistent legato and releases (not to mention the phasing and doubling):
> (1) http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_EngHornLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
> (2) http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_FluteLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
> Both these instruments sound doubled throughout the entire example, to my ears: the flute almost sounds as if it’s doubled with a some synth's sinewave, and the English horn seems to be joined by a poorly tuned melodica of some sorts.


I am still downloading, so I cannot try this and see how there ist such a great difference in doubling/phasing between your examples and the demoes. Am I right assuming you played these two examples with the mod wheel around middle position? This would explain why the doubling is so extreme in your example, while I still would want OT to work on that problem hard, as this is obviously not ok.
Seems like legato and crossfading have some issues. I am pretty confident though, Hendrik will improve this. Remember that he even recorded quite an amount of additional samples and improved a lot of the scripting for OSR2 without charging earlier customers.
I am impatiently waiting to try this out myself!


----------



## Graham Keitch

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - LEGATO STATEMENT VIDEO*

Thanks Hendrik

While I'm sure this library (like any) will benefit from some further tweaking, the tone of these instruments sound lovely. 

Can't wait to download as soon as the smaller file sizes become available.

Best wishes, Graham


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I´ve made a short screencast about how the legatos must sound "out of the box".



Nice video !


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



re-peat @ 10th August said:


> I'm not too pleased with this library. Not happy with how it sounds (rather sterile, chilly and dead, I find, with a few nice exceptions), nor with how it responds.
> _



I completely disagree on that.
Ben Botkin, a very talented composer made a demo for BWW. There is no EQing on it, just a bit of Spaces reverb.

[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/audio/bww/saying_goodbye.mp3[/mp3]

Just listen to that flute. I think it sounds pretty lively. 

He will do a longer review, where he will explain everything in detail.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

So this is user error?


I can't get a grasp on what's going on. Hendriks video of the legato sounds fine (on laptop speakers). 


Who's being funny here?


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Just had a good play around with the library. I really love the sound! There are a few legato things to iron out as said before (some instruments more than others), but personally I'm happy with this as a 1.0! Hendrik you have done a great job and I am looking forward to using this library.

Just one other quick thing I noticed was that when using the 'Room' mic only with the 1st flute, the progressive vibrato isn't sounding right at all, just a sustain/transition volume issue I can't fix. Try it out you'll see what I mean, I think it would be easy to fix though.

Lovely piece by Ben Botkin too btw, the woods sound great!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Thank you so much guys!

@SimonCharlesHanna: If the video don´t helped you on that thing, I can offer you a short support talk via Skype.
Just write me a short e-mail and I´m sure we´ll sort that out, so that you can enjoy the library.

We´re starting to improve the legatos today.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## re-peat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> I completely disagree on that.


Few people will agree with me, Hendrik, I know that. 
You know, I almost feel sorry bringing all these things up here, but then again, I don't really, because after all, this is how I think about this library. Maybe my taste in woodwinds is highly peculiar, could be, (and maybe my ever-growing disillusionment and frustration with most things sampled is affecting my judgement here too), but the unfortunate fact remains that some of these Berlin timbres simply do not agree with me. For a clarinet to seduce me, for example, it has to sound much warmer, more velvety, more reptile-like and less clinically sterile than the sound I hear coming out of BWW. And my idea of how an English horn should sound is also very different from the timbre that is captured in this library.
There's much to be enjoyed here, absolutely (Simon gave quite a good description of some of it), but all things considered, I just don't 'feel' this library. It doesn't fill me with a desire to start making music with it. My loss, I know.

Maybe it'll change if I spend some more time with it. (Though, from past experiences, I know that I'm usually right — for myself anyway — with my first impressions about a virtual musical instrument. If it doesn't click during the first few hours or days, it usually never will.)

But hey, nothing to worry about, I should think. After all, this is just one person's opinion. And who am I? Nobody. Just ignore me. The large majority here, it would seem, appears to be extremely satisfied with your achievement (which, I have no problem agreeing with, must rank indeed as something quite special), so there's plenty of reason for joyous celebrations all around. Honestly, I wish you all the best with this, just as I wish anybody who purchased it, the greatest of times and plenty of profound musical satisfaction.

_


----------



## JohannesR

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

re-peat: I have learned a lot from your posts here on VI, and I strongly hope that you will continue to share your knowledge. There is a lot to learn from your opinions and insights.

At the same time, let me point out that I think the posts and audio examples of yours in this thread may be subject to some unnecessary confusion for those who haven´t had the change to get their hands on BWW . You may give the impression of a weak library, when it is obvious that a lot of what you experience as bugs, might just as well be problems on your end. There are a lot of users who have installed the library and has a lot good to say.

From what I know, the VI business is a relatively small one. Remember, it takes a lot of guts to make a library like Hendrik et al. have done. The least we can do to support the developers improving and developing our tools is by directing any challenges we may experience to developers directly: A forum is not the place.

My 2.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

@re-peat:
Thanks for your constructive fedback.

Anyway, the demo from Ben is sounding pretty lively with very much expression, how I know that from real orchestral recordings. And this was nearly "out of the box".

[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/audio/bww/saying_goodbye.mp3[/mp3]

The different vibrato styles gives you a great tool to maximize this expression and to "form" and "fit" the instrument to the melody you compose. I thought the same when I heared Sascha´s demo "Berlin Stories". 
Sorry, but you can´t tell me, that this sounds "steril"...

[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/audio/bww/berlin_stories.mp3[/mp3]

Please give it a try, use the many tools we offer to form the performance in BWW, like the different vibratos, keyNoises, WindNoises, legato volume and the pretty huge range of different artics. 
I´m sure you´ll change your view on that, when you´ve composed some music with it.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> Please give it a try, use the many tools we offer to form the performance in BWW, like the different vibratos, keyNoises, WindNoises, legato volume and the pretty huge range of different artics. I´m sure you´ll change your view on that, when you´ve composed some music with it.
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Hendrik, sorry but I haven't read the manual completely yet, but just a question. As I understand it, the multis use KS to sort of switch between different MIDI ch's, right? So I can't have a flute multi on, say, MIDI ch 1 of a VE Pro instance and then another flutemulti on MIDI ch 2 etc... Basically I need to use one instrument/instance per multi, right?


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

@Simon: Yes, you can open 1 multi per Kontakt instance (the 01_AP_1st_Flute [empty] e.g.) . But of course you can open the first instance in midi channel 1, the second in midi channel 2 in VE Pro, e.g.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> @Simon: Yes, you can open 1 multi per Kontakt instance (the 01_AP_1st_Flute [empty] e.g.) . But of course you can open the first instance in midi channel 1, the second in midi channel 2 in VE Pro, e.g.
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Really? OK I will try that. I just saw that when I open a multi (not the "empty" ones), below the multi setup instrument, there are a bunch of patches (e.g. flute sus, flute port etc etc.), all on different MIDI ch's, so I assumed these were sort of connected to the setup you create in the top instrument. My understanding was that when I keyswitch to e.g. the "sus", it will then re-route all input to that instrument and that MIDI channel.

But if I am wrong on this, that is great news. That would mean that I can effectively have 16 instances of Kontakt inside one instance of VE Pro and load up and set up 16 different (KS) multis - one per MIDI channel? 8)


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Oh yes, these different midi channels inside the multi is for internal routing only. You go in with 1 midi channel and the Artic Performer routes these midi information to the specific instruments. In VE pro you can filter which midi channel you want to route to a specific Kontakt instance. That´s important. The Artic Performer accept every incoming midi channel.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> Oh yes, these different midi channels inside the multi is for internal routing only. You go in with 1 midi channel and the Artic Performer routes these midi information to the specific instruments. In VE pro you can filter which midi channel you want to route to a specific Kontakt instance. That´s important. The Artic Performer accept every incoming midi channel.
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



OK, but if I route MIDI ch 1 to the first instance and then MIDI ch 2 to the 2nd... then the 2nd won't work because MIDI ch 2 will not go to the Arctic Performer but to the instrument meant for interman routing....?


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

no, you can go into the Artic Performer with every MIDI channel. It always work.
But you´ve to filter that in VE pro, so that the 2nd MIDI channel only goes into the 2nd instance of Kontakt. That´s it :D


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> no, you can go into the Artic Performer with every MIDI channel. It always work.
> But you´ve to filter that in VE pro, so that the 2nd MIDI channel only goes into the 2nd instance of Kontakt. That´s it :D



Awesome 8)


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I´ve made a short screencast about how the legatos must sound "out of the box".
> 
> http://youtu.be/Ij2IMvbIlmo
> 
> 
> We´ve many controllers and variables to change the style of the legato and of course we can "more connect" the samples. An update on this will come during the next days.
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Thanks Hendrik for such a quick and respectful response. 

One thing, which I and a few others mentioned before, is that I would really look at figuring out a way to remove the attack from the sustains during a legato transition. Right now, in a large majority of the transitions (and even audible in your video) is a very slight separation between notes. When listening, you hear more of a articulated transition than you do a slurred transition. I believe this happens because we are hearing the original attack of the sustain which is an articulated attack. This attack then becomes louder than the legato transition and gives the imitation of an articulated note.

Simon and I mentioned before of possibly fixing this by trying to offset the sustain samples when a legato transition is played. Please try this during your experiments. Because, honestly, it is a problem throughout the entire library and not just a few instruments or transitions.

Thank you again for you quick response and dedication to make this better. I look forward to your updates!

Cheers.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

noxtenebrae17: I know what you mean and we´re are working on this on a global basis. Every instrument uses the same legato script and individualy we can set up every instrument with this script. I think we´ll be ready in a few days with an update.


----------



## re-peat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



JohannesR @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> (...) My 2.


Johannes,

I'm with you all the way up until the words _"has a lot good to say"_. (Although I'm not quite sure if my 'knowledge' in these matters amounts to much to write home about.) 
What follows thereafter however, means absolutely nothing to me. I have no interest whatsoever in how much guts it takes to develop a sample library. Guts shouldn't enter into this. Hendrik developed a product and now sells it. I mean, seriously, what's so gutsy about that? I admire and applaud the effort and vision, sure, but at the end of the day, I'm only interested in how the final result, which I purchased, may work for my music. I hope I'm not being too selfish here.

And by most accounts, Hendrik did a spectacularly good job anyway. Like I said, I wish all parties who are involved here, be it as performers, developer or users, nothing but the best with BWW. I honestly do. And I'm covinced that many, many people will derive huge satisfaction and many hours of musical pleasure from it. No doubt about it. 
It just doesn't seem to be for me, this library, that's all. And I don't mind. These things happen. I don't think it is a problem, neither should anyone else.

And if people are so stupid to let my opinions influence their verdict on what is, after all, a most personal and intimate thing (at least, it should be), namely _a musical instrument_, that's their problem. Can't take responsibility for that, can I?
I hope everyone here is serious enough about his/her music to want to make an entirely personal and very well-considered opinion about the tools they choose and use to make music with. Quite important, I find. Again, and I insist: nobody should listen to me. There's meanwhile plenty of material available — a lot of it quite good sounding actually — that's much more interesting and useful to base a judgement on than whatever I might think about this or that.

Anyway, let's get back to the points we agree on. Much nicer. You are of course right that my earlier examples are those of an inexperienced user. A BWW-novice in other words, as most of us still are at this point in time. Like I already admitted to Craig, in that sense these examples are indeed somewhat unfair material to be presented here, at this premature stage of inexperience. Not completely unfair though, I still believe. But maybe I should have waited a few more days ... 

... to say exactly the same thing as I did these past hours. Because, as I said before, I can't ignore how I react when exploring the contents of BWW. 

_


----------



## organix

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



re-peat @ 10th August said:


> Here’s two more examples of inconsistent legato and releases (not to mention the phasing and doubling):
> (1) http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_EngHornLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
> (2) http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_FluteLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
> Both these instruments sound doubled throughout the entire example, to my ears: the flute almost sounds as if it’s doubled with a some synth's sinewave, and the English horn seems to be joined by a poorly tuned melodica of some sorts. Honestly, I'm having big difficulties appreciating how this sounds. And these examples contain fairly standard playing, wouldn’t you say so?



Anyone else with this sounding issues?
I wonder a little bit, because I mean to remember that you had posted similar issues with Cinewinds. Maybe something wrong with your setup or your daw?

Maybe you can improve the sound by playing it more legato style. Your demos sounds that you don't connect the notes very well. Also the flow of of dynamics is very important on playing woodinds. 

Some woodwinds like the Oboe or English Horn can really produce some synth alike tone. Especially when you hold the dynamic and air flow on a very constant level. So when you play woodwinds in real or with samples, try to avoid a very constant tone.

Markus


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> noxtenebrae17: I know what you mean and we´re are working on this on a global basis. Every instrument uses the same legato script and individualy we can set up every instrument with this script. I think we´ll be ready in a few days with an update.



Great to hear! Thanks! By the way, I think you've been handling these last few days and this crazy forum thread really well. Cheers!


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



SimonCharlesHanna @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> So this is user error?
> 
> 
> I can't get a grasp on what's going on. Hendriks video of the legato sounds fine (on laptop speakers).
> 
> 
> Who's being funny here?



Piet, did you test these legatos to breaking point or was that straight 'out of the box' so to speak? I haven't ordered this yet, but am certainly thinking about it.


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



noxtenebrae17 @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> re-peat @ Fri Aug 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And talking about the clarinets: anyone know why neither of them have vibrato? Very strange and regrettable omission, no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Classically-trained clarinetists don't typically use vibrato. It's similar to how a french horn doesn't play with vibrato either.
Click to expand...


So you won't be able to do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jzx664u5DA


----------



## Simon Ravn

I for one, would never use a clarinet with vibrato in what I do (mostly classical, film score type music) - so I can't say I miss that from this library. As far as I know it is not in VSL, CineWinds or any other library that I know of.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Hey Guys,

*Important Download Information:*

We´ve uploaded a new set of much smaller 1GB packages.
We don´t "switch" over at the moment, because there are many customers which are downloading and we don´t want to break these download connections.

If you´ve serious problems with downloading, please write us an e-mail to:
[email protected] and we will send you a new download mail.
But that means, that you have to delete all the files you´ve downloaded until now and you´ve to start from the beginning with part1.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Scrianinoff

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri 10 Aug said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> *Important Download Information:*
> 
> We´ve uploaded a new set of much smaller 1GB packages.
> We don´t "switch" over at the moment, because there are many customers which are downloading and we don´t want to break these download connections.
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



I am afraid the damage is already done, at least for me, and I doubt I am the only one. Look at the picture.below and my post at the end of page 14.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - RELEASED*



paulcole @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> noxtenebrae17 @ Fri Aug 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> re-peat @ Fri Aug 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And talking about the clarinets: anyone know why neither of them have vibrato? Very strange and regrettable omission, no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Classically-trained clarinetists don't typically use vibrato. It's similar to how a french horn doesn't play with vibrato either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you won't be able to do this?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jzx664u5DA
Click to expand...


No - I don't think this library was designed with this kind of music in mind 8)


----------



## MCS

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



organix @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> re-peat @ 10th August said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here’s two more examples of inconsistent legato and releases (not to mention the phasing and doubling):
> (1) http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_EngHornLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
> (2) http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_FluteLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
> Both these instruments sound doubled throughout the entire example, to my ears: the flute almost sounds as if it’s doubled with a some synth's sinewave, and the English horn seems to be joined by a poorly tuned melodica of some sorts. Honestly, I'm having big difficulties appreciating how this sounds. And these examples contain fairly standard playing, wouldn’t you say so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else with this sounding issues?
> I wonder a little bit, because I mean to remember that you had posted similar issues with Cinewinds. Maybe something wrong with your setup or your daw?
> 
> Maybe you can improve the sound by playing it more legato style. Your demos sounds that you don't connect the notes very well. Also the flow of of dynamics is very important on playing woodinds.
> 
> Some woodwinds like the Oboe or English Horn can really produce some synth alike tone. Especially when you hold the dynamic and air flow on a very constant level. So when you play woodwinds in real or with samples, try to avoid a very constant tone.
> 
> Markus
Click to expand...


Yes! I had excatly the same problems. What I did was deleting the whole "Samples" folder, since I didnt trust the continuata installer because of all the crashes, extracted the rar files manually. One was currupt so I downloaded that again, extracted everything manually and now it works very well.

best,
Michael


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



MCS @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> Yes! I had excatly the same problems. What I did was deleting the whole "Samples" folder, since I didnt trust the continuata installer because of all the crashes, extracted the rar files manually. One was currupt so I downloaded that again, extracted everything manually and now it works very well.
> 
> best,
> Michael



Hi guys ... get the latest downloader from here:-
http://continuata.net/download_app.php

that should fix your crashing issues.

the downloader was never designed to work with individual files larger than 2GB ... it was an honest mistake that Orchestral Tools released the library with the larger file sizes; but we couldn't really switch once people had started to download with the larger files.

So we re-wrote the downloader yesterday and it should be handling the larger files now.
Just close your app ... install the new one and restart, it should pick up from where it left off and will correct any corruption when it comes to install.

If anyone gets a crash with v1.0.7 please send me the crash log (copy and paste the text from the crash-log window) and send me the log file that's in the Connect application directory to info(at)continuata.com

If the Connect application has everything marked as "Installed" then it definitely is installed and you don't need to worry about missing files.

Cheers

Stu


----------



## handz

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Oh my, so even BWW were released with bugs?

pardon me bu it seems really odd how all latest WW libs were released with lots of problems, I do not remember so many after release bug discussion from the past. What is going on? There must be a lot of betatesting before release, and each lib seems to be containing lots of problems.


----------



## EastWest Lurker

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



handz @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> Oh my, so even BWW were released with bugs?
> 
> pardon me but it seems really odd how all latest WW libs were released with lots of problems, I do not remember so many after release bug discussion from the past. What is going on? There must be a lot of betatesting before release, and each lib seems to be containing lots of problems.



I think realistically that all these new libraries are so massive and trying to accomplish so many things well, that if you buy a 1.0, you have to buy it with the understanding that it is going to take some time for the developers to refine them and get rid of bugs that arise.


----------



## handz

"I think realistically that all these new libraries are so massive and trying to accomplish so many things well, that if you buy a 1.0, you have to buy it with the understanding that it is going to take some time for the developers to refine them and get rid of bugs that arise."

OMG you do not mean this seriously, dont you? If I buy some proffessional product I need to work with it and I need it to be working 100% or it is useless. 

I did not noticed so many issues with previous libs from those developers in the past, but all WW libs are seems rushed and not tested releases.

Which leads me to second point - those preorders for products that after release are bugged and unusable are quite unfair too.


----------



## EastWest Lurker

handz @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> "I think realistically that all these new libraries are so massive and trying to accomplish so many things well, that if you buy a 1.0, you have to buy it with the understanding that it is going to take some time for the developers to refine them and get rid of bugs that arise."
> 
> OMG you do not mean this seriously, dont you? If I buy some proffessional product I need to work with it and I need it to be working 100% or it is useless.
> 
> I did not noticed so many issues with previous libs from those developers in the past, but all WW libs are seems rushed and not tested releases.
> 
> Which leads me to second point - those preorders for products that after release are bugged and unusable are quite unfair too.



Yes, with 1.0 I do. If you live on the cutting edge, sometimes you bleed.

The same is true for music apps major updates like Logic, DP, and Cubase; OS like OSX Mounttain Lion and Windows 8;and even for 1st year of an automobile model introduction btw and they cost a lot more than sample libraries.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

handz @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> "I think realistically that all these new libraries are so massive and trying to accomplish so many things well, that if you buy a 1.0, you have to buy it with the understanding that it is going to take some time for the developers to refine them and get rid of bugs that arise."
> 
> OMG you do not mean this seriously, dont you? If I buy some proffessional product I need to work with it and I need it to be working 100% or it is useless.
> 
> I did not noticed so many issues with previous libs from those developers in the past, but all WW libs are seems rushed and not tested releases.
> 
> Which leads me to second point - those preorders for products that after release are bugged and unusable are quite unfair too.



Handz, you have been doing this a long time, tell me an orchestral library that was perfect from V 1.0. This is not an excuse for the maker or any makers of libraries but realistically why would you expect different.


----------



## bwherry

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Hey guys,

Are any of you using Kontakt *Player* with Berlin Woodwinds (as I am)? Because I get lots of SCRIPT WARNING messages down in the bottom of Kontakt in the legatos and *_Runs_Transitions patches. Plus none of the trills work for me at all - and no one else has mentioned that. I wonder if there are Kontakt Player bugs/limitations that are causing these things...

Brian


----------



## handz

Jay - I never had any issues that prevent me from using graphic applications like Photoshop etc in past years - and Im a hardcore user. Every new version is usable. 

Any of those new libs is not brand new, they are just next libs in the line, so I would await that they know what they are doing as proramming will be similar for all the products in a line.

Craig - honestly I do not remember any libs form the past that would have such cirtical bugs, now all ww libs brought some really ugly sounding user demos which shows something is not working in the lib - not some minor glitches on some notes, but that the main thing - legato is buggy.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

@bwherry: The Trills are all using our new Trills Orchestrator script. You just have to play the start and then the ending note to get the specific trills. Everything is explained in the manual.

Don´t worry about these messages. I just found no way to hide them. That has nothing to do with the performance of the legatos.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## bwherry

*slaps self across face*

Thanks Hendrik.

*runs and hides*


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Just popped by to offer a few comments. I've only been working with BWW for a few hours, but already I love it. The sound from the library is lovely and I am already convinced this was the right choice when choosing a new WW library.

First, Hendrik, than you so much for your help and support, and for your efforts (and those of your associates) in producing such an amazing library Congratulations on this release. It's very obvious that a lot of care, attention and hard work went into this product and it's very much appreciated. Any very minor concerns about the first release that I could express have already been addressed here promptly by you and others, and I have every confidence in this product both now and in the future. But I have to ask: do you ever sleep?  I suspect about now you must be exhausted.

The download went as well as could be expected, but was definitely long and somewhat tedious. Continuata 1.0.6 performed fairly well though, in spite of the file sizes, and also Stu kindly helped me find a corrupt file and set Continuata to download it again. The program did freeze when it came to unRaring the sample files, but I just used another program and solved that little problem. Again Stu was a great help; my ISP was not. After everything was unpacked, the rest was straightforward and the Installation Guide was most helpful. Like others, I do suggest those 'picture' files would have been better placed in their own folder though. Thanks too to respondents who posted the tip about batch saving the instrument files.

Re. the sound of the library, I was immediately drawn to it, and I think as soon as I've had a chance to go through the manual and learn more about how to best use BWW, I'll be even more pleased. One need only to listen to the demos to get a better understanding of just how good these 'instruments' can sound when used correctly, so some of the concerns expressed here really surprised me, especially when the library has just been released and I doubt that many of us have had enough time to really get to know it yet. Thank you Hendrik for your informative video today, and I'll definitely contact you if I notice anything that others haven't reported.

So, in summary, my best wishes to Hendrik and his team and thanks for a job well done, I look forward to future updates...and now I'm going to go off and enjoy BWW. Cheers!


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



handz @ 10.8.2012 said:


> Oh my, so even BWW were released with bugs?
> 
> pardon me bu it seems really odd how all latest WW libs were released with lots of problems, I do not remember so many after release bug discussion from the past. What is going on? There must be a lot of betatesting before release, and each lib seems to be containing lots of problems.



you have to read carefully what is going on here. There is one bug in BWW concerning the lowest dynamic and its release. Everything else is fine, as you can se and hear in Hendriks Videos and the Demos of Sascha, Craig and Ben. What you should also notice is, that BWW is a product that wants to be handeld carefully and thoughtful. There are many things you can manipulate from UI - that also means there are a lot options to make mistakes turning knobs.


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



rocking.xmas.man @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> handz @ 10.8.2012 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so even BWW were released with bugs?
> 
> pardon me bu it seems really odd how all latest WW libs were released with lots of problems, I do not remember so many after release bug discussion from the past. What is going on? There must be a lot of betatesting before release, and each lib seems to be containing lots of problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you have to read carefully what is going on here. There is one bug in BWW concerning the lowest dynamic and its release. Everything else is fine, as you can se and hear in Hendriks Videos and the Demos of Sascha, Craig and Ben. What you should also notice is, that BWW is a product that wants to be handeld carefully and thoughtful. There are many things you can manipulate from UI - that also means there are a lot options to make mistakes turning knobs.
Click to expand...


That's why I asked Piet if he had tested the legatos to breaking point. Looking at the demo from Hendrik (the latest one) it seems that you can make some fairly hideous sounds if you dial up too much. It looks very good to me and the previous demos more or less put that side of it to bed in a positive way. There will be the normal updates for this library as there is with anything that comes out these days.


----------



## Inductance

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



EastWest Lurker @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> I think realistically that all these new libraries are so massive and trying to accomplish so many things well, that if you buy a 1.0, you have to buy it with the understanding that it is going to take some time for the developers to refine them and get rid of bugs that arise.



Yes, I think that's just the reality of modern software development in general. But despite that, I think companies should still strive (and I think most do) to release a product that's as complete as they can possibly make it. Unfortunately, there are companies out there that take a "release it now, we'll fix it later" approach, which is not fair to the customer (not just talking about sample library developers).


----------



## adg21

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



rocking.xmas.man @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> There is one bug in BWW concerning the lowest dynamic and its release. Everything else is fine[...]



It's a pretty big deal - we like low dynamics - you get some nice air with softest dynamics.
It's also quite possible that the lowest velocity layer is least likely to have the doubling/chorus going on, so it would be great to have them working properly when the mod-wheel is at zero. 
This is my number 1 request.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

@adg21: Completely agree with you and I'm working on that and will have that fixed during the next days.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## re-peat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



paulcole @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> That's why I asked Piet if he had tested the legatos to breaking point.


Paul,

Sorry I forgot to answer that question earlier on. My legato playing is just that: simple everyday-of-the-week-kinda legato playing: slightly overlapping notes, in other words.
So: nothing extreme to drive the software nuts with, just simple legato phrases, with normal modwheel action. I have my limitations, but I do know how to play legato.

But as I said before: my earlier examples shouldn't be given too much weight (I've taken them down anyway, because they already weighed far too much).

It's like this: if you like the sound of BWW, there is absolutely nothing to be afraid of here. BWW is, all things considered, pretty solid software, and what doesn't quite work today will certainly work tomorrow. Hendrik appears to be completely on the case and fully dedicated to see to it that we all end up as satisfied as possible.

I still have to get used to that 'distance shift' (when changing dynamic levels) which I mentioned earlier, but I'm sure that's easily corrected with a simple script tweak. And so will the occasionaly odd behaviour of the legato and release samples. There's nothing to worry about.

Me, I happen to be not convinced by the sound and character of (some of) these instruments, but that's entirely my thing, and it shouldn't matter to anyone else. 
Again, if you like how BWW sounds and you're seriously considering the purchase, there really is not a single reason not to go ahead with it.

(And I say all of this completely sincerely, freely and independently.)

_


----------



## synergy543

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> @adg21: Completely agree with you and I'm working on that and will have that fixed during the next days.


Great news Hendrik!

I guess Piet's criticism was actually helpful then in finding a problem that passed the developer and beta testor's ears so far. Despite the fact that Re-peat comes across with all the venom and terror of Professor Challenger from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's "The Lost World"!

@Re-peat - and I meant that in a 'somewhat' respectful way as that's one of my favorite books and characters. :D


----------



## lamandolina

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



> Here’s two more examples of inconsistent legato and releases (not to mention the phasing and doubling):
> (1) http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_EngHornLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
> (2) http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_FluteLegato.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... Legato.mp3)
> Both these instruments sound doubled throughout the entire example, to my ears: the flute almost sounds as if it’s doubled with a some synth's sinewave, and the English horn seems to be joined by a poorly tuned melodica of some sorts. Honestly, I'm having big difficulties appreciating how this sounds. And these examples contain fairly standard playing, wouldn’t you say so?
> 
> 
> Anyone else with this sounding issues?



Yes I have the same problem, I sent and Email to Orch. T. with an audio file, I think that this problems comes from articulation script, try with only the nki file and at least the legato problem doesn't appear.

Any idea about a solution?


----------



## benmrx

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Thanks for posting that most recent video Hendrik. For some folks, it's a no-brainer purchase when new libs like this are released. For others (including myself), the notion dropping $700 on some flute and clarnet samples is a HUGE deal. No matter how amazing they might sound! So, seeing that vid and explaining what the problem is, and how to fix it really puts me at ease. You seem very dedicated to your libraries, and it comes across wonderfully.

I've still got a couple days before I'm ready for purchase, still going back and forth between which lib to get. Which ever it is... they're all pretty amazing IMO.


----------



## ryanstrong

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



re-peat @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> Me, I happen to be not convinced by the sound and character of (some of) these instruments



I am surprised that you bought this library given that you are not convinced by the sound and character of the instruments because the videos for this product have singled out each and every instrument in BWW so I would assume that you would have had a pretty good idea of what they would sound like?


----------



## Question

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

I am curious as to what sort of CPU performance others are getting when using the legato patches.

On my Mac Quad core 3.0 Ghz with 12 GB Ram, (running Logic 9) one core is going into the red when simply playing a melody with one legato patch.

I am using the latest version of Kontakt, with the pre-load buffer at 60kb.

Anyone wish to comment?

Thanks


----------



## Craig Sharmat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

I am going to take up Piet's cause not that he needs me to.

Piet looks at libraries quite differently than most if not all members of this forum. He creates wonderfully original music finding golden nuggets in samples and libraries that many of us would simply bypass. He looks for character and tone to help motivate him and when a library comes along that does not coincide with his artistic vision he rejects it from that view point, makes no bones about it and shouldn't. We all accept and reject libraries on this basis. Many of us are happier with a library that sits in for lack of better term "homogeneous setting". Piet on the other hand wants his instruments to speak, often as a real one would. For many purposes instruments that speak in the way Piet uses them would be inappropriate for many jobs and In others they would be great. Its again about approach and need. If one were to approach Piet's music as Piet does and few here do, and I mean this in the most complimentary way possible, then you will likely agree with his opinions. Some may see some of his viewpoints and others soundly or ignorantly reject them.

Piet if I have misunderstood you or mistakenly spoken on your behalf my apologies in advance.


----------



## 667

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

I've changed my mind about the photos-- I really like being able to see whether it's flute 1 or flute 2 or an oboe or bassoon just by a quick glance in Kontakt. So for me that is actually a really excellent feature.

Except for piccolo and flute 3! Maybe an alternate photo could be included in an update. 

LOL I bet no one expected that feature request.


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



re-peat @ Fri Aug 10 said:


> paulcole @ Fri Aug 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I asked Piet if he had tested the legatos to breaking point.
> 
> 
> 
> Paul,
> 
> Sorry I forgot to answer that question earlier on. My legato playing is just that: simple everyday-of-the-week-kinda legato playing: slightly overlapping notes, in other words.
> 
> 
> _
Click to expand...


Thanks a lot Piet. Always a pleasure and good synopsis as usual.

I think I will go for this when affordability allows.


----------



## FriFlo

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



> I've changed my mind about the photos-- I really like being able to see whether it's flute 1 or flute 2 or an oboe or bassoon just by a quick glance in Kontakt. So for me that is actually a really excellent feature.
> 
> Except for piccolo and flute 3! Maybe an alternate photo could be included in an update.
> 
> LOL I bet no one expected that feature request.



I guess you could do your own GUI update ... :wink:


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Hey Guys,

just want to say, that I fixed the release samples bug in the piano layer of the legatos and we´re start to changing the instrument settings now to get the legatos much smoother.

We´ll fix some minor things tomorrow and the update will be ready during the next days.

Simon Ravn helped me a lot with some of his suggestions BTW.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## audiot

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

A wish: when posting sound examples then please attach a screenshot of the settings or the detailed settings themselves (as someone (Peter Alexander?) demands continously) in order to be able to comprehend or reproduce problems or any other issues. 

The files which should show serious problems are not online anymore (Why? If touching a big and basal problem which has to be corrected then they are still important. Eventually the text is still online here, too), but fortunately I have saved them. I could reproduce the wrong sound only with settings out of range. When played the bassoon just right out of the box there was nothing to complain. Piet was asked by Paul if he "had tested the legatos to breaking point" but the answer lacks details for me. Could we post details in future, please? Solely because something is possible means not that it is also reasonable, isn't it? How to use the gear is important. I believe that Piet posts to help improve and erase the bugs.
But during the download process I was irritated by very contradictory opinions ("excellent" one the one side, %!"/#'"%§!"§=&@?*! on the other) - strange and confusing. And the sound examples sounded really awful.

But why does someone buy a library when not liking the overall sound? There have been early video demonstrations for information - they don't seem to hide anything unpleasant. Or have I overlooked something?

Might I make a recommendation I have learned in the army? Wait 24 hours before complaining.

I want to thank Stu from Continuata for his excellent and fast help (via mail) which solved the download issues.
And Hendrik and his partners for the customer service and for the way of presenting BWW with videos in the run-up to release. No polished sound-only demos, instead video-based playing right out of the box. And Sascha Knorr for his excellent walk-thru video (included the detailed reverb settings!).
And I just see that an update is already on the way! Thank you very much, Hendrik!


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Sat Aug 11 said:


> We´ll fix some minor things tomorrow and the update will be ready during the next days.
> 
> Simon Ravn helped me a lot with some of his suggestions BTW.



Thanks for the hard work Hendrik.

I have a little more insight after working with the legato a bit more. As pointed out before, the attack of the sustain is often covering up the actual transition. While this is often the case, it isn't always the case. I noticed this when working with the Flute 3 patch and how some of the sustains have a slower attack to them. This slower attack allows for a VERY smooth and realistic transition.

Here's an audio example with what I mean. The first example played is a note with a strong attack followed by three quite rough sounding legato transitions towards that note. The second is a note with a slower attack that is followed by three legato transitions towards that note that sound very smooth.

https://www.box.com/s/36dbd5926272c81cd29d

As you can clearly hear, the second sustain I played was very smooth in its transitions while the first was clearly interrupted by the attack. I should note that I did not change the modwheel nor did I the legato volume from "50" during the example.

So this got me thinking, if the attack is slower, could you simply use a sort of fade into the sustain to create a universal smoothness to all transitions? In other words, could you use an ADSR envelope to possible fade into the note by adjusting the attack time? Perhaps combined with the sample offsetting mentioned by Simon, you could achieve a wonderful result!

I am by no means an expert on this and have faith in Hendrik's skills, but I think that there is something here worth looking it. Hope it helps!

Cheers!


----------



## dfhagai

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

For some reason, all the patches sounds like two instruments...not one....
There is no intimacy to the sound, even while using only the close micing.
While I've noticed that on the demos, it's even harsher when I play them myself...
The modwhell causes this chorus/phasing issue to increase/decrease accordingly...

Shorts & Runs are great!


----------



## Chriss Ons

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



Question @ 10th August said:


> I am curious as to what sort of CPU performance others are getting when using the legato patches.
> 
> On my Mac Quad core 3.0 Ghz with 12 GB Ram, (running Logic 9) one core is going into the red when simply playing a melody with one legato patch.
> 
> I am using the latest version of Kontakt, with the pre-load buffer at 60kb.
> 
> Anyone wish to comment?
> 
> Thanks



Even though I saw a fairly low strain on the CPU in Kontakt and on the ASIO performance meter in Cubase, I'd get ASIO spikes (the red overload LED lighting up at every note-on) when using the legato patches. For a moment there I thought my setup simply couldn't handle the library, and adjusting the pre-load buffer size had no effect whatsoever... but slightly increasing the ASIO buffer size solved the problem, I'm happy to say.


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

I have to say, after a full day of playing with this library that I am really enjoying it. Yes, you can hear crossfading - but I'm not finding that to be too much of an issue. Despite this, the dynamics are also really smooth. Yes the legato isn't as smooth as it could be, but this is being worked out. Even in its current state I am not having any problem making smooth flowing legato lines.

The dynamic consistency across each instrument's articulations individually and across the library as a whole are really impressive. It's nice not having to touch master volumes to get the instruments to balance. I'm personally just using the 'Room' mics with a bit of nice tail reverb and the tone just fits in so perfectly with my template. The articulations performer allows me to set up a stupid amount of articulations for each instrument on a single midi channel. Being able to crossfade from non-vib to multiple types of vib is so powerful, along with the ability to easily stack various shorts with longs in so many customize-able ways (higher velocity, slider, etc).

My favourite thing about the whole library though is how homogeneous the sound of the full section is when everything is played together. Especially with the Room mics, you can hear that each instrument has its own space and it sounds very cohesive. The tone is just outstanding and the amount of "air" in the samples adds a lot of life. 

I just wanted to add my opinions, I could have easily not posted them - but I really am extremely happy with my purchase.
Here's a short Williams' phrase that was one of the many test pieces I did yesterday. Note that this was made extremely quickly without fussing around, it could easily be improved.

http://soundcloud.com/blakus-mfm/memorymix


----------



## Peter Alexander

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



> (as someone (Peter Alexander?) demands continuously.



Sorry, Soldier, you picked the wrong general and the wrong word. What I have encouraged in a couple of marketing threads is that developers have demo makers explain how they produced their demo, e.g., how did they get to the end result, so that others buying the library can achieve the same production results. 

In this thread I complimented Sascha for doing that very thing. I thought he did a great job in his demo!


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Has anyone else noticed a significant increase in CPU usage during legato transitions? It seems if I'm playing multiple legato patches at the same I get CPU spikes during those transitions. Is there any way to reduce this CPU spike? Seems a bit heavy for Kontakt. For now I adjusted my ASIO settings and that helped tremendously but just curious if there was anything under the hood that could be done.

I also have a feature request:
Could we get a pre-mixed version of the 3 flutes playing together? That way if we want a flute ensemble without the piccolo we could simply load one patch instead of three. 

Thanks!


----------



## billymidnight

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Loaded 2 flutes in Artic Perf for crossfading: im getting massive CPU spikes. on iMac 3.1GZ, 12Gg ram, Logic 9, latest K5. had to increase to 256 samples to stop audio pops. Apart from that BWW is sensational.


----------



## dfhagai

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Doesn't any oone else get that "two instrument" feeling on a single Legato instrument?


----------



## autopilot

Yeah - I hear it Hagai. I think we're hearing the pp layer and the mf layers simultaneously and the ff as we get louder again

Try finding the sweet spot with your mod wheel.

Watch as the layer descriptor (pp - mf - ff) becomes brightest as you move through the dynamics, as I suspect that's the point where you get the most of each layer (and conversely the least of the others) which should make it feel more like a solo instrument. Funnily I find it best just as the mf appears rather than in the middle of its brightness. 

But you can definitley hear both dynamics crossfading between each other as you ride the mod wheel. I guess it'll take a while to learn where those sweet spots are - just like any instrument I guess. 

And keep an eye for updates. I reckon Hendrik's on the case ...


----------



## re-peat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



noxtenebrae17 @ Sun Aug 12 said:


> Has anyone else noticed a significant increase in CPU usage during legato transitions? It seems if I'm playing multiple legato patches at the same I get CPU spikes during those transitions. Is there any way to reduce this CPU spike? Seems a bit heavy for Kontakt.


That is another disadvantage of recording sample libraries in lage spaces, and something which I forgot to mention in my earlier post on the subject. In order the preserve those long, lush tails, the samples which contain that info, need to have long releases. And long releases means, unavoidably, a staggering increase in voice count and, thus, possible problems for Kontakt to keep up with it all. Especially if you combine two different mic perspectives, as you can in BWW, the voice count can quickly shoot through the roof.

Here’s an example: the simplest of simple flute lines, played by the Flute Legato patch, set to a certain mix of room and close perspective (and with a bit of added UAD reverb):
http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_VoiceCount.mp3 (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... eCount.mp3)
Have a guess how high the voice count goes up at times during this very simple phrase. I’ll tell you: Kontakt shows a voice count going as high as ... 144! Yep, that's 144 voices for a simple, single line such as this, played by one instrument only. I think I even spotted the number 150 at one time, but anyway. (Playing a basic legato diatonic scale, say from C4 to C5, and not too fast, already results in a voice count of 90.)
It's not continuously 144 of course, but it reaches that number fairly frequently. And if you play this melody a little faster, the number goes even higher.
(If anyone’s interested, you can do the test yourselves. http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/BWW_VoiceCount.mid (Here’s the midifile).)

If you only use the mix perspective (the default setting), the voice count goes to about 60, but never much higher than that. Still an alarmingly high number, I find. Just imagine what Kontakt might be up against when the legato patches of the entire woodwind section are loaded and the playing gets a little bit more complex.

_


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

repeat, I agree with you that the polyphony goes more up with samples recorded in larger rooms (because the release tails and longer short notes). But there are other things, which increases the polyphony much more in your example.
You can minimize the polyphony drastically with using the pre-mixed mic position (now we have the half amount of polyphony).
If you´re using the KeyNoises, you´ll have an additional sample which will be played on top. You can turn that off (and here the same: Using 2 mic positions doubles the voices of the KeyNoises!). 

I think you´re using all the features at it maximum in your example (2 mic positions + 2x Keynoises + 2x release samples (It is possible to turn that off too). 

And if you don´t like large rooms baked in samples (what I think, dependig on your post on another thread), you can fairly use the close samples only. We tryed to record them as nicely as possible to use them as a single mic position too. With the close mics you´ve much less room information in it or you can put the release samples completely off.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## re-peat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Hendrik,

Thanks. Yes, I know about reducing the polyphony by a.o. disabling the key samples and only using the mix perspective, and such. I was merely trying to point what some of the practical/technical consequences may be when recording samples in large venues, i.o.w. when certain (groups of) samples contain long baked-in reverberation. 
And it's certainly not typical of, or unique to BWW that this poses a challenge to Kontakt. I hope I didn't imply that. All libraries which contain (groups of) samples with long releases can be a bit more difficult for Kontakt to handle.

I've been trying to shorten some of the releases myself actually (in groups from which I assume they can do with a shorter release), just to see if it would lighten the load on Kontakt, but as soon as I play a note with my adjusted settings, the release (in the ADSR section) always resets itsef to its original value. Is that something script-determined, if I may ask?

_


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Yes, the script uses the release setting.
I will add a seperate knob on the GUI interface for you in the coming update which allows you to change the release times. I missed that too BTW.

That enables you to set up a "one shot" version of the staccatos as well (when you disable the release samples).

BTW: I just optimized the KeyNoises too. They will be played randomly and not everytime when you change over to the next note. That will decrease the voices a little bit and it sounds more natural.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Hi,

Just now getting to know this library. I'm finding the mic "Mix" great from some instruments and just the "Room" (no close) for others (then going to a "Spaces" Hall preset).

The top range on the bassoons is way too low imo. VSL goes about a 5th higher (F#). Could you just remap the upper notes to take us up to "D" in an upcoming update?

Think I'll be unloading systematically the key noises.

I'm also experimenting with a panner (PSP in my case) and finding that narrowing the stereo images a tad sounds more "natural" to me. :idea:


----------



## BL

Hey Hendrik, 
I haven't downloaded my copy yet but I wanted to throw out a suggestion.
Since these are solo instruments, could there be round robin (is that possible?) breath noises that we can turn up and down in value like the legato and key noises(for certain pieces where it's more of an intimate sololist, than within a full orchestra or even with a full orchestra but a featured soloist out in the front of the stage)? When we release a note from playing a legato line, it could trigger? Then, when we edit the cc for volume level of the breath noise, we can tweak it better so that it's only audible when it's necessary in a realistic way. I know when we do midi mock ups, we tend to put ourselves in the shoes of the performer playing specific instruments. Humans don't have the ability to talk forever without taking a breath just like a performer playing a woodwind instrument or brass instrument for that matter. Right now we take pauses in our melody lines to simulate that breath of air, but for that extra realism maybe it's something to consider? Just thinking out loud.(or in text form rather)
Also, I wanted to know how well this library does with repeated notes like C D E E E D C fast and slow?
Thanks Hendrik for taking the time to create this library by the way. I know there are a few things to be ironed out, but from the demos I heard so far, I think it will be a solid product in time.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Been playing around with the 3 flutes legato patches. Didn't we see a video early on that included a control for breath noise for the flutes? Seem this has disappeared (or have I been doing too many bong hits :mrgreen: )

Anyway, I hear lots of breath noise even using exclusively the "Room" mics. Is there any way you could put that control back in? For my taste the breathing noise gives an unnatural close mic sound that I would like to get rid of (be able to turn off).

Loving the multiple solo instruments !!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Hey Guys, I think we´re talking about 2 different things. I think jamwerks talks about the WindNoises. And indeed there is a controller on the staccatos and staccatissimos of all the flutes. We´ve sampled the air blowing thrugh the instrument and you can change the amount of that with a controller. 

We don´t have recorded breath noises in BWW currently but hey, it´s a great idea. At the moment we´re doing the most important things to make BWW more solid and the legatos more smooth. But we think about that for a future update.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

A simple tip, if you want more attack on your legato lines, is to layer the sforzando sample on top (very easy to do in the Arctic Performer) - that actually helps quite a bit. Then adjust the volume to your taste, depending on how much "oomph" you want on the attack 8)


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

That's a good tip Simon and it, makes sense. (OT: I like the sforzando patches used on their own as well). I may eventually have a few layering suggestions of my own to offer. One reason that I'm often hesitant to say too much too soon is because libraries like Hendrik's take time to get to know, and sometimes hasty comments and conclusions can be misleading to others. Personally, I'm slowly getting a better 'feel' for BWW and IMHO, it just keeps getting better the more I work with it. I'm amazed by how well thought out everything is and how the instruments have been so well recorded, and my initial impressions posted earlier still apply. It's obvious that Hendrik and his team have put an incredible amount of thought and effort into this library, and they are to be congratulated for continuing to improve the product so very soon after its release. That's the sign of a good developer, one who cares, one who listens and one who wants his products to be the best they can be. I haven't enjoyed working with a quality library like this for awhile now, am enjoying every session, and hopefully learning more about how to use BWW. The trills are going to be very useful, and I really like the prerecorded runs, especially the flute ones. Haven't had a chance to pair them with OSR yet, but that's on my list, as is exploring the runs builder in BWW in more depth.

Anyway, please keep posting tips and suggestions everyone; I find them very useful.


----------



## synergy543

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

*Some Kontakt Questions...*

Loading some of the patches takes some time. Is there a way to speed up the loads? 
I notice the second time I load a patch its very fast. Is there a way to always have them load this fast or are they just still residing in RAM?

If I need to batch/save, how do I do this on 57G? I don't want to accidentally erase the originals and have to reinstall again. 
(these things always happen to me so this time I'm asking first before trying). Advice?

And what's the difference between between "batch re-save" and "collect samples/recompress"? 
(Yes, I read the manual but I'm still so confused. I should know this but I feel like a total Noob.)


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



synergy543 @ Sun Aug 12 said:


> *Some Kontakt Questions...*
> 
> Loading some of the patches takes some time. Is there a way to speed up the loads?



I suggest that Batch Re-save is your answer. That tip was posted earlier, and I and it appears other respondents had no trouble doing that. I guess if you are concerned, I suppose you could make a copy of the folder and save it elsewhere on your drive before proceeding, but unless something isn't right somewhere, the process should go smoothly. It takes a short while , but it's worth it. Hope that helps.


----------



## lamandolina

batch re-save only changes the nki files, use it with no fear, the load difference is brutal!
Good luck


----------



## MaestroRage

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

yeah, batch ->resave. It will literally eradicate loading time. Loads the sample patch instantly (though gathering all the samples into RAM will take a bit of time after, but at least you're not wasting any time watching a loading bar)


----------



## synergy543

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Sounds like batch re-save is the way to go.

But then what is the "collect samples/recompress" for?


----------



## ryanstrong

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Sorry guys coming in the middle of this, I'm going to be done downloading the library soon, what is this batch/resave business? How do you do it? And why do you do it?


----------



## synergy543

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



rystro @ Sun Aug 12 said:


> Sorry guys coming in the middle of this, I'm going to be done downloading the library soon, what is this batch/resave business? How do you do it? And why do you do it?


Found this in* another thread* msg posted by Khollister but I'll repost here for clarity (although I'm still a bit hazy).



> Re: Sanity check on Kontakt NCW conversion?
> Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:07 pm
> OK - maybe I need to NOT be a coward. Any one point to a print out of this process "how to"?
> 
> 
> 
> link to a copy of the Kontakt 4.2 manual addendum - page 17 "Batch Compress"
> 
> http://www.ageofaudio.com/pdfs/Kontakt% ... nglish.pdf
> 
> Also found it on page 41 of the Kontakt Application Reference Manual (English)
Click to expand...


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



rystro @ Sun Aug 12 said:


> Sorry guys coming in the middle of this, I'm going to be done downloading the library soon, what is this batch/resave business? How do you do it? And why do you do it?



E.g. From MaestroRage earlier..



MaestroRage @ Thu Aug 09 said:


> as a quick tip, everybody getting it or already gotten it, consider doing a batch re-save on your library to drastically improve loading times (by literally 10x by my time).
> 
> Files -> Batch Resave -> Select Berlin Woodwinds folder



And to clarify...that's the File icon at the top of Kontakt Instrument panel, not the Files tab over with the Library Tab


----------



## ryanstrong

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



playz123 @ Sun Aug 12 said:


> rystro @ Sun Aug 12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry guys coming in the middle of this, I'm going to be done downloading the library soon, what is this batch/resave business? How do you do it? And why do you do it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E.g. From MaestroRage earlier..
> 
> 
> 
> MaestroRage @ Thu Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> as a quick tip, everybody getting it or already gotten it, consider doing a batch re-save on your library to drastically improve loading times (by literally 10x by my time).
> 
> Files -> Batch Resave -> Select Berlin Woodwinds folder
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And to clarify...that's the File icon at the top of Kontakt Instrument panel, not the Files tab over with the Library Tab
Click to expand...


THANK YOU!

Now I just need this download to work. I've emailed Hendrik for him to send me a link to download the 1gb files version but haven't heard from him. I tried downloading the original download that was sent out and Continuata Connect 1.0.7 finishes downloading the first package (10mb) and then the second package and then just sits and it doesn't do anything. I've tried Pausing and Resuming and restarting the software.

Hopefully I will hear from Hendrik soon, would love to start playing!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Hey Guys, the batch resave takes a while and there will be an important update this week, which replaces the NKI files (instrument files).
I would wait for the update, otherwise you've to do the same thing again.

Best, Hendrik


----------



## synergy543

Yes, it took a while (about an hour). But loading is *F-A-S-T* now virtually instantaneous whereas it took sometimes up to a minute before. 

Need speed? Do it now!


----------



## EvilGrandmother

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Bugs/wishes, art-performer:

- at least 2 more vertical layers.
- when i load a preset the samples are not loaded automatically.
furthermore you cannot save keyswitch start parameters and
vertical align cc information in presets.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

@EvilGrandmother:

Just set up the Artic Performer to your needs and save your sequecer project - that´s it. 

Or you can save your setting as a Kontakt multi instrument. So they appear in the multi list of the library entry.



> at least 2 more vertical layers.



I thought about the same thing. We´ve designed the 2 vertical rows to x-fadeing them between each other. Crossfading more than two articulations make no sense actualy. The online positive thing is the velocity switching and I will think about how I can extend the Artic Performer concept.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## adg21

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



andy.k @ Thu Aug 16 said:


> The second thing is the doubling sound, it's very annoying when playing the instruments solo and even for quiet parts of the song[...[



I've asked this in another thread, but is there such a thing as different types of cross fades that minimise this effect? Is it possible / been invented? Improving this would be golden ticket.


----------



## 667

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



adg21 @ Thu Aug 16 said:


> I've asked this in another thread, but is there such a thing as different types of cross fades that minimise this effect? Is it possible / been invented? Improving this would be golden ticket.


I think the key is tweaking the transition samples for phase alignment. The slope/curve of the fade probably impacts as well.


----------



## EvilGrandmother

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Aug 16 said:


> The online positive thing is the velocity switching and I will think about how I can extend the Artic Performer concept.



Yes that was the idea behind it. It would reduce keyswitching drastically. You could just add 2 more layers with only the velocity switching button.

Another thing.

Flute 1. All articulations are modwheel controlled except for staccatissimo. Also
the dynamics of the staccatissimo dont match to other articulations like staccato. So if you program a line and want to use staccato and staccatissimo on different notes you hear a drop in dynamics.


----------



## ryanstrong

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

EDIT: I'm retracting my opinion due to faulty download and extraction of the library.


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



rystro @ Thu Aug 16 said:


> That said, this was my first library that I've ever purchased in a 1.0 state, and it _feels_ very 1.0. What I mean is that it feels a little glitchy. I'm not a technical sample person, but some of the cut offs, and transitions, and noises and stuff are definitely things that I hope they will be able to smooth out to make this thing not only inspiring to play, but also easy.



I would highly recommend sending and e-mail to Orchestral Tools with a list of any issue you encounter. This way you can ensure the problems that bother you get fixed. The guys at OT are incredibly respectful and I know are working hard to fix things up.

As far as the crossfading goes, I think there definitely are a few transitions that could be cleaned up to blend a bit smoother. I am unsure if the slope/curve of the crossfading would help but it would be worth a try (though something tells me they have already tried this before). The problem with solo instruments is the vibrato. With so many pitch fluctuations occurring constantly I think it would be hard to get an absolutely clean crossfade. You'll notice the non-vibrato patches have a much smoother crossfade than those with vibrato. 

I agree with andy.k that there are so many things in this library that really puts it ahead of others. I cannot wait to see this new update OT has been working on and the refinement of such a fine library.


----------



## booboo

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

This is a pretty exciting library, and definitely is going to be my upgrade from my WW purgatory of Symphoba and VSL.

However, I'm going to wait until the dynamic phasing in the legato instruments is fixed. That bug at that price point does not work for me (IMO).


----------



## noxtenebrae17

Hey Hendrick,

How's the update coming? (not that I'm highly impatient or anything  )

Cheers.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

We´re on the last steps now.

Update will be ready tommorow.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Hey Guys,

we need some more time. We´re planing to be ready tomorrow (monday).
Sorry for the confusion....

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## dfhagai

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Thanks for the updates Henderik.
I think you should take as long as you need to do it right


----------



## synergy543

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



dfhagai @ Sun Aug 19 said:


> Thanks for the updates Henderik.
> I think you should take as long as you need to do it right



+1

Yup, you're a Master Chef who's created a gourmet meal. No need to provide sloppy fast-food service. You'll be judged on the taste of your food, not on the speed of delivery. 

In fact, if you keep us waiting a bit longer, it'll probably even taste better when the delicious meal finally does arrive! :D


----------



## inmusi

I agree, take your time, do it right IMO 

Once the legato is sorted out BWW will be my go to woodwind library, sounds great


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



synergy543 @ Sun Aug 19 said:


> dfhagai @ Sun Aug 19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the updates Henderik.
> I think you should take as long as you need to do it right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> Yup, you're a Master Chef who's created a gourmet meal. No need to provide sloppy fast-food service. You'll be judged on the taste of your food, not on the speed of delivery.
> 
> In fact, if you keep us waiting a bit longer, it'll probably even taste better when the delicious meal finally does arrive! :D
Click to expand...


I'm getting hungry....


----------



## snattack

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

HENRIK: Was there supposed to be an update this week or anytime soon? I'm currently redesigning my template with BWW, but it's no use if you're going to replace the patches anytime soon.

Best,
A


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*



snattack @ Sun Aug 19 said:


> HENRIK: Was there supposed to be an update this week or anytime soon? I'm currently redesigning my template with BWW, but it's no use if you're going to replace the patches anytime soon.
> 
> Best,
> A



Perhaps you missed Hendrik's post about the update from earlier today, and then the comments above?? 



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Sun Aug 19 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> we need some more time. We´re planing to be ready tomorrow (monday).
> Sorry for the confusion....
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW DEMO ADDED*

Hey Guys,

we´re ready for BWW version 1.1!

Many things are changed and especially the legatos got some important improvements.
Thanks to everyone who wrote us their expiriences and bugs via e-mail.

*Here is a list of changes:*

1.) Legato Scripting
– Release sample bug in lower dynamics fixed
– Different volume of the legato transitions in different vibrato styles fixed
– Smoother legato transitions + the sustain samples will be started at a later position of the sample (attack bug)
– better and reduced CPU usage
– Error message bug fixed

2.) KeyNoises (Legatos + Sustains)
– New random feature. The KeyNoises will not be played everytime

3.) New release time knob
– the new release time knob will appear, when you disable the release samples feature

4.) Short Notes („one shot“ pre-defined)
– All staccatos have disabled release sampled. Now they are pre-defined as „one shot“ samples
(You can change that. Just activate the release samples)

5.) Articulations Performer: Optimized scripting for VST-Expression.
– Keyswitches don´t go through the multi script to the specific instrument.

6.) Piccolo Flute, Runs Transitions Patch: Release bug fixed

7.) Optimized vol. range values

8.) 1st Bassoon and 2nd Bassoon: Extended not range (highest note: D4)

9.) Additional vibrato style for 2nd Bassoon: Without Vibrato

10.) RUNS BUILDER Flutes 8va: Corrected tempi on several samples

11.) Fixed noises and detunings on specific samples

12.) Several minor bugs and improvements



We´re starting to send out the update mails now.

*We´ve a new support section on our website with a special forum and FAQ:*
http://orchestraltools.com/index.php?option=com_ninjaboard&view=forums&Itemid=105 (http://orchestraltools.com/index.php?op ... Itemid=105)

If you´ve any question, suggestion or if you detect something, you can always write it down there and 
we´ll optimize these things over the next updates.


Enjoy the BWW 1.1!


Best,

Hendrik


----------



## RiffWraith

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Now that ^ is what I call an update!


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Thanks Hendrik !


----------



## booboo

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

WOW. This is exciting. I'm buying this today.

Competitors - pay attention. THIS is what a 1.1 update should look like!

Thanks Hendrik!


----------



## MCS

...and these updated patches sound very good!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

thanks  Glad, that you like it...


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

I'm seeing this error message with the Mac version of the Continuata 1.1.1 program. Downloaded it twice and it's still giving the same error. Anybody else seeing that? Can I use version 1.07 which is already installed?

EDIT: Downloaded the Mac installer to a PC and unzipped it there, then transferred the installer back to the Mac and the install went fine. Downloading now. ALL other zip files work fine on my Mac Pro and I have had no problems unzipping a file for years, AND I just unzipped the BWW instrument update so there's definitely something wrong with that file.

PS: Thanks, Hendrik. I've got everything now!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Do you have access to the manual download links?
The update files are not pretty huge.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## eschroder

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

I pre-ordered this awhile ago but am just now getting around to download it. Do i still need to download the update or is the original file to download already up to date now?

Thanks


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Hi Frank, what version of Mac are you running? The latest Installer is Apple signed, that may be a problem on older releases. Don't use an old version of connect as the latest one fixes the issues that some were encountering with crashing and installation cycles.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

@eschroder: Sorry, you´ve to download the update as well.
But everyone who ordered later than the release of the update can just download the normal version.


----------



## Simon Ravn

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



booboo @ Mon Aug 20 said:


> WOW. This is exciting. I'm buying this today.
> 
> Competitors - pay attention. THIS is what a 1.1 update should look like!
> 
> Thanks Hendrik!



Yes - and what competitors should especially pay attention to is the timeframe. This update was done within weeks of the original release. Some other libraries are still missing (much more needed) updates for now 3+ months... 8)


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



continuata @ Mon Aug 20 said:


> Hi Frank, what version of Mac are you running? The latest Installer is Apple signed, that may be a problem on older releases. Don't use an old version of connect as the latest one fixes the issues that some were encountering with crashing and installation cycles.



Hi Stu,
I'm on a Mac Pro running Snow Leopard 10.6.8. The new version of Continuata itself works fine......just used it for the download, but there's obviously something quirky with the .zip process that was used. Even the downloaded instrument update, .rar files etc all 'unzip' perfectly, but that one does not open on my Mac. It does unzip fine on a PC. Hope that helps. Maybe try zipping it again, but not in Lion or beyond since many of us are still using Snow Leopard....for obvious reasons.  Cheers.......frank


----------



## eschroder

Awesome, thanks!


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Hey Frank,

could you try downloading and extracting this one.

http://continuata.connect.s3.amazonaws.com/Connect-1.1.1a-osx-installer.zip

Others have installed the other one without issue, so I'm wondering if something strange with the signature permissions is going on with your version of OSX.
What version of OSX are you running?


----------



## re-peat

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



playz123 @ Mon Aug 20 said:


> (...) but there's obviously something quirky with the .zip process that was used (...)


For some reason, it seems to be OSX's own ArchiveUtility which refuses to open the Continuata zip-file. I ran into the same error message ("Operation not permitted"), but then simply tried it with Stuffit Expander and that worked instantly. (I'm still on 10.6.5 though, maybe more recent versions of ArchiveUtility work fine.)

_


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



continuata @ Mon Aug 20 said:


> Hey Frank,
> 
> could you try downloading and extracting this one.
> 
> http://continuata.connect.s3.amazonaws.com/Connect-1.1.1a-osx-installer.zip
> 
> Others have installed the other one without issue, so I'm wondering if something strange with the signature permissions is going on with your version of OSX.
> What version of OSX are you running?



Stu, that one works perfectly. As I mentioned above, I'm "running Snow Leopard 10.6.8" No problems previously with signature permissions here. As I say, every other zip file opens perfectly, even the ones in the download. The Continuata one was the only one with the problem. Cheers.


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Frank, if that one worked then it was signature permissions on your OSX that caused it.

I'll look into it a bit more and see if it can be avoided, thanks for the update.


----------



## Chriss Ons

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Hendrik, just wanted to say thanks for the hard work on this update - much appreciated.


----------



## JohannesR

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Same happened here (Snow Leopard). What I did was downloading the file on my MacBook (Lion), unzipping, and then copying the file back to my MacPro.


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



playz123 @ Mon Aug 20 said:


> I'm on a Mac Pro running Snow
> Leopard 10.6.8.



Same here, the decompression didn't want to work. Finally just downloaded direct. Great update, only 12 days after the launch !!

Hendrik, you're up there now with the big-boys (EW, CS) in sampling !! Hope you'll now consider doing a major brass library with your approach of multi-solists and extensive articulations !!

IMO there's a major gap open between HB & VSL that you could be successful at. I love the sound of HB, but some arts are missing and there in only one soloist per section. VSL has all the arts, but not the sound (imo!). CS sounds awesome, but have far too few arts imo.

One point, BWW sounds great, but please consider including 3 mic positions in your (many!!) future libraries.

o-[][]-o o-[][]-o o-[][]-o


----------



## continuata

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

I've switched the Mac Connect Installer for the unsigned version now on the download page ... so it should extract now with the OSX extraction utility for older OSX versions.


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Excellent update, Hendrik. Thanks so much. BTW, is there any reason to retain the original version 1.0 files that have now been replaced? It's been such a short time between the release and the update, that I really haven't built up a ton of projects based on the first version, so I'm not sure if I need to keep the original files.




continuata @ Mon Aug 20 said:


> I've switched the Mac Connect Installer for the unsigned version now on the download page ... so it should extract now with the OSX extraction utility for older OSX versions.



Thanks, Stu, as always for your prompt assistance and kind responses. Much appreciated. Continuata itself just keeps getting better.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Thank you so much...

@Frank: You must have the "Berlin Woodwinds 1.0" folder in the instruments folder. 
The update don't overwrites the older instruments.
If you don't have it anymore, just write me an e-mail and we will see how we can get back the 1.0 files 

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Best update ever! Thanks Hendrik - it sounds fantastic!!


----------



## khollister

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Big improvement Hendrik - many thanks for jumping on this update this quickly.


----------



## khollister

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Big improvement Hendrik - many thanks for jumping on this update this quickly.


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Mon Aug 20 said:


> Thank you so much...
> 
> @Frank: You must have the "Berlin Woodwinds 1.0" folder in the instruments folder.
> The update don't overwrites the older instruments.
> If you don't have it anymore, just write me an e-mail and we will see how we can get back the 1.0 files
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Sorry, Hendrik; perhaps I didn't phrase my question clearly enough. I still have the 1.0 files AND the new ones. I was asking if there's any reason to keep the 1.0 files that have now been updated to the new version? BOTH versions are currently in the Instrument folder, so no problem there. Do we need BOTH versions? I can't see why based on the fact "that I really haven't built up a ton of projects based on the first version". Cheers.

PS: Once again, batch resave has REALLY speeded up loading times of the instruments, so it's highly recommended.


----------



## bdr

Would it be possible to upload a screenshot of the folder structure with the update? I don't think I have installed correctly.


----------



## playz123

bdr @ Mon Aug 20 said:


> Would it be possible to upload a screenshot of the folder structure with the update? I don't think I have installed correctly.



(Minus the rar and zip files that don't need to be stored there)


----------



## bdr

Thank you Frank, much appreciated


----------



## Lukas K

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Thanks for the update Hendrik! You improved a lot.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Thank you guys!

We´ll improve more things and we´ve some great ideas for further features in upcoming updates for BWW.

BTW: We´ll start recording Bass Clarinet and Contra Bassoon in the first september week :mrgreen: 

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> We´ll start recording Bass Clarinet and Contra Bassoon in the first september



_-) _-) _-)


----------



## Erik

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Does the update includes a fix of the crossgrade/phasing issue (the _doubling effect_) also? Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

@Erik: We improved it a bit (legatos) but it isn´t away. We´ve to make huge sampling editing to improve that drastically. We´ll work on that.


----------



## Eloise

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

I really wonder why there's no Alto Flute in BWW.
Please, please consider including it in an upgrade/update.(maybe in September?)
Bass Flute with normal, progressive and especially no vibrato would be great, too.
Any chance it would be included some time?

Eloise[/quote]


----------



## Question

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Hendrik,

first of all. thanks for the quick update.

you said: "@Frank: You must have the "Berlin Woodwinds 1.0" folder in the instruments folder.
The update don't overwrites the older instruments."

Why do we need the old 1.0 instruments? (I would prefer to delete them if possible)
Is this only necessary if we have used the 1.0 instruments in a project? 

If we do need both 1.0 & 1.1 instruments, may I request that a future update includes just the latest version of the instruments and multis?
For me this eliminates the possibility of opening up an old version of an instrument accidentally.

I did a "Batch re-save" of the 1.0 instruments last week, now I am getting an error message when trying to batch re-save the 1.1 instruments. 
Could the fact that I batch re-saved the 1.0 Instruments be causing this error?


Thanks


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Can someone please give an example of the crossfading effect?


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



Question @ 21st August said:


> Why do we need the old 1.0 instruments? (I would prefer to delete them if possible)
> Is this only necessary if we have used the 1.0 instruments in a project?


Yes, exactly.



Question @ 21st August said:


> If we do need both 1.0 & 1.1 instruments, may I request that a future update includes just the latest version of the instruments and multis?
> For me this eliminates the possibility of opening up an old version of an instrument accidentally.



The 1.1 folder includes everything. If it is updated or not. You really could delete the 1.0 folder. But I recommend to hold them for older projects, which are using the 1.0 patches. That´s all.



Question @ 21st August said:


> I did a "Batch re-save" of the 1.0 instruments last week, now I am getting an error message when trying to batch re-save the 1.1 instruments.
> Could the fact that I batch re-saved the 1.0 Instruments be causing this error?



Which kind of error? Maybe you can send me a screenshot of your samples folder. via e-mail. I think that relies on the resource container. But can you open the new 1.1 files without the samples missing dialog?

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

@paulcole: There isn´t a big change on that. This update is focused on Legatos and all the things listed in the changelog:

http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bww_changelog.pdf (http://www.orchestraltools.com/download ... ngelog.pdf)

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## paulcole

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> @paulcole: There isn´t a big change on that. This update is focused on Legatos and all the things listed in the changelog:
> 
> http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/bww_changelog.pdf (http://www.orchestraltools.com/download ... ngelog.pdf)
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



Ok thanks Hendrik. Presumably you will be working on the crossfade issue for future updates. The current updates look good. And quick work too!


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> Question @ 21st August said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do we need the old 1.0 instruments? (I would prefer to delete them if possible)
> Is this only necessary if we have used the 1.0 instruments in a project?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, exactly.
Click to expand...


Thank you! That's the answer I was requesting! 


BTW, when I remove a folder such as the original Instrument one described here, I normally just _move it_ temporarily to a storage location. If, after a significant amount of time spent with the library, no errors occur, then and only then do I actually delete the folder. Perhaps that's being a bit too cautious, but it's also better than dealing with issues if removing a folder ends up creating problems.



Question @ 21st August said:


> I did a "Batch re-save" of the 1.0 instruments last week, now I am getting an error message when trying to batch re-save the 1.1 instruments.
> Could the fact that I batch re-saved the 1.0 Instruments be causing this error?



Not sure what might have happened, but no, that's not what you should be seeing. I batched re-saved the original Instruments folder the day BWW was released and then, with the version 1.0 folder still in place, batch re-saved the 1.1 folders yesterday, and all went well. So that suggests it's something other than the process itself. I'm running Kontakt 5.0.3. Perhaps the error message will tell us more.


----------



## Question

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Playz123,
the error message when trying to do a batch re-save is "could not save the .nki."
The 1.1 patches load and work fine; anyone else have this small issue?

I wrote to Hendrik and sent his a screen shot of my samples folder, waiting for a response.
This is not a serious issue, just mysterious.


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



Question @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> Playz123,
> the error message when trying to do a batch re-save is "could not save the .nki."
> The 1.1 patches load and work fine; anyone else have this small issue?
> 
> I wrote to Hendrik and sent his a screen shot of my samples folder, waiting for a response.
> This is not a serious issue, just mysterious.



Just curious...does the batch re-save simply not start at all, or does it go through the check for missing samples THEN give you that error message? What version of Kontakt are you using? Is your folder structure identical to the one I posted on the previous page of this thread, and when you downloaded the update, did you direct Continuata to save and expand the files directly into your BWW folder? I suspect that you did all the right things, but I had to ask.


----------



## Question

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Playz123,
yes batch re-save starts, checks for missing samples then gives me the error message.
I am using the latest version of Kontakt, and my file structure is as in the previous photo.
I followed the install instructions after updating the Continuata update etc.

I also tried Kontakt in stand alone mode.

Hendrik wrote back and seemed to think that it had something to do with the "container files". But, unfortunately his suggestion did not work.

As I said; it really isn't a big deal, but if you know the secret answer please let me know!

Thanks


----------



## vrocko

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

I am having a similar, when I start the batch re-save process everything goes smooth till the end. I get the following error "Piccolo_Flute_b_Triple_Tongue.nki could not be saved".

The weird thing is that it works fine on my PC slave, Which I dragged and copied all the samples from My Mac via Network connection.


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Here's the beginning of Holst's Venus using BWW for a bit of fun. 
http://www.blakus.com/music/HolstVenus.mp3


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



Blakus @ Wed Aug 22 said:


> Here's the beginning of Holst's Venus using BWW for a bit of fun.



Nice job! Did you use the "mix" or another combo of mics? What's your verb?


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Thanks! I'm actually using the room mics only, I find they have just the right amount of presence and teldex for my template! I'm using 2cAudio B2 for reverb.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Great mock up, Blakus!

Thank´s for sharing!

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Ouch !!

I just noticed that both the oboes don't have their full range. Oboes go down to B-flat, but here I only have C's ????


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*



Question @ Tue Aug 21 said:


> Playz123,
> yes batch re-save starts, checks for missing samples then gives me the error message.
> I am using the latest version of Kontakt, and my file structure is as in the previous photo.
> I followed the install instructions after updating the Continuata update etc.
> 
> I also tried Kontakt in stand alone mode.
> 
> Hendrik wrote back and seemed to think that it had something to do with the "container files". But, unfortunately his suggestion did not work.
> 
> As I said; it really isn't a big deal, but if you know the secret answer please let me know!
> 
> Thanks



 No secret answer, yet, and it's certainly easier to troubleshoot something when one actually has the problem...which I don't, but hopefully by now you've made some progress. I was thinking that if all the samples are there and you are getting an error message after they are checked, then perhaps you could try batch re-saving only one of the Instrument sub folders (not the first one) and see if that works. Can you batch re-save other libraries? Mac users could also try the old standby of Repair Permissions. That may not help , but it never hurts. Not sure what else to suggest. I suppose in a worst case scenario, you could wipe the library off your drive and simply start again using all the .rar files etc. you downloaded, then applying the update to the BWW folder and then trying batch re-save only version 1.1. files. But that's a bit drastic. If that still didn't work though, the next thing I'd look at is Kontakt itself. That's about all I can suggest right now. Hope you get this sorted somehow.


----------



## 667

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Fantastic update-- the library really sounds world class to me now. Everything is a lot more playable and musical. Thanks for your dedication to this product and to your customers! Also, good job on the resource usage, it's definitely improved as well. I was getting clicks/pops with more than 4 soloists with v 1.0. I was running 6 on v1.1 yesterday with no problem-- not sure what the max is but that's at least a 20% improvement for me.

One issue-- Clarinet ensemble to my ears sounds a lot better with the legato samples quite a bit louder. I think I settled around 80-85 or so, with release samples increased also. Anyway just FYI, if you're tweaking in a later update I think that patch can sound smoother. But I like that I have control over this so I can make the notes more or less separated as musically needed.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW UPDATE 1.1*

Hey Guys,

there is a new wonderful demo, composed by Ben Botkin using BWW.

http://soundcloud.com/benbotkin/the-second-star-to-the-left

He wrote me the following about his composition:
_"...there are moments of exposed woodwinds, but mostly this is showing how the woodwinds can work in the context of the whole orchestra--adding flourishes, movement, etc--somewhat reminiscent of John William's "Hook"."_

Thank´s to Ben for his great work. He will do an online review about using the library during the next days.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## jamwerks

Great piece !


----------



## hbuus

Sounds superb!

Best,
Henrik


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

Lovely; an excellent example of what can be achieved with BWW.


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

Really fantastic demo. Thanks for sharing.

The legato was much improved in the last update and thank you for updating it so quickly. However, I still think that transitions could use a bit more tweaking to make for a more "slurred" transition. Many of them still sound articulated or like there's no transition at all and the flutes are a bit twitchy (their sustains come in quite sharply and cover the transition). Maybe some sort of legato speed slider could help this because the legato volume knob often creates a better transition but a messy crossfade as the end of the transition goes into the next note. Regardless, its getting better and that's all I can ask for.

A couple of feature requests:

- could we get an option to go all the way down to _niente_ on the patches by just using the mod wheel? Clarinet players are especially notorious for being able to come in and out of silence gradually and it would be nice not having to fiddle with the midi expression until we get a desired effect.

- Is there a way we could get a way to "re-articulate" a single note when holding down the sustain pedal? Optimally, it would be great to actually have a "re-articulated sample" so when you hold down the sustain pedal and play the same note over and over you hear a slight articulation that separates each note. But this could be achieved more simply by just using the existing samples.

Thanks again!


----------



## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



BL @ Tue Aug 28 said:


> In future updates, I wouldn't mind seeing Oboe 3, 4, Flute, 4, 5...



For the first time in the history of mankind, OT gives us 3 (yes, 3) different flutes!! I knew it wouldn't be long before somebody asked for 2 more. :mrgreen:


----------



## Lukas K

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



noxtenebrae17 @ 28.8.2012 said:


> Really fantastic demo. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> The legato was much improved in the last update and thank you for updating it so quickly. However, I still think that transitions could use a bit more tweaking to make for a more "slurred" transition. Many of them still sound articulated or like there's no transition at all and the flutes are a bit twitchy (their sustains come in quite sharply and cover the transition). Maybe some sort of legato speed slider could help this because the legato volume knob often creates a better transition but a messy crossfade as the end of the transition goes into the next note. Regardless, its getting better and that's all I can ask for.
> 
> A couple of feature requests:
> 
> - could we get an option to go all the way down to _niente_ on the patches by just using the mod wheel? Clarinet players are especially notorious for being able to come in and out of silence gradually and it would be nice not having to fiddle with the midi expression until we get a desired effect.
> 
> - Is there a way we could get a way to "re-articulate" a single note when holding down the sustain pedal? Optimally, it would be great to actually have a "re-articulated sample" so when you hold down the sustain pedal and play the same note over and over you hear a slight articulation that separates each note. But this could be achieved more simply by just using the existing samples.
> 
> Thanks again!



I totally agree with all you just said. I actually adjust almost every transition by drawing the peaks on CC1 lane to get them sound more realistic.

And I've already talked to Hendrik about the legato repetitions by using the sustain pedal, so I hope these things will get fixed in the future.


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

Personally, I would tend to use the word "adjusted" rather than fixed since the latter sometimes indicates a very serious problem. But yes, a bit more tweaking could make things even better, which is also the case with most of the libraries in existence.  While any real problems now appear to mostly have been "fixed", perhaps as Hendrik continues to develop BWW, he will consider the suggestions above.


----------



## Lukas K

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



playz123 @ 28.8.2012 said:


> Personally, I would tend to use the word "adjusted" rather than fixed since the latter sometimes indicates a very serious problem. But yes, a bit more tweaking could make things even better, which is also the case with most of the libraries in existence.  While any real problems now appear to mostly have been "fixed", perhaps as Hendrik continues to develop BWW, he will consider the suggestions above.



Yeah, you're right :wink:


----------



## kolton

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

hi hendrik,

i'm sorry to post this here but, i'm having some install problems and have send
an email from your site as well as a pm from here and not sure how to reach you for help.

thanks in advance,
sorry for being of topic,
dan


----------



## noxtenebrae17

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



BL @ Tue Aug 28 said:


> In future updates, I wouldn't mind seeing Oboe 3, 4, Flute, 4, 5... etc.


While this sounds good in thought, I'm not sure it's what I would put as a priority in future updates. I would rather have one absolutely incredible oboe over five mediocre ones. Plus, from a business standpoint, I can't see it as a very profitable feature. Most people already own a few libraries (I now have 6 different Oboe VI's) and can fill many of their needs by supplementing with those libraries.

I think the best thing right now is to really fine-tune this library into a well-oiled machine: Something that you simply can't resist using. After that, move onto the addition of the Bass Clarinet and Contrabassoon that Hendrik said they're recording soon (which, IMHO, the bass clarinet is an absolute essential add-on to the library).

I think too many other VI companies have moved onto new products or expansions of existing products too quickly. This leaves the existing product with many issues that either take a very long time to get fixed, or never get fixed at all.


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

Hey Dan, are you having problems with installing the update or with the main program? There are some good tips in earlier sections of this thread that may help, and perhaps someone here can help as well. I'm sure Hendrik will be in touch with you shortly...if he's not in bed at this hour of the night in Germany.


----------



## kolton

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

frank, thanks much for your response.
i've done my best with the earlier posts but no luck so far. i'm sure i've done something stupid while installing but i can't figure it out. it's been since early yesterday and i just wasn't sure how else to reach hendrik. 

thanks again.


----------



## kolton

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

frank, i just re-read your post. i'm having trouble with version 1 and 2.
it's not really the install is guess. every thing seems installed correctly.
it's that most of the instruments won't load because of missing samples. if i ignore missing samples many instruments load nothing.
if i browse to the samples folder they are still not found.


dan


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

Hi Dan,
Sounds to me then that something may have gone wrong with the download and the install. If version 1 isn't working properly then the update won't fix it. Some questions:
Are your other Kontakt libraries problem free?
Is your directory structure identical to the one shown in this thread (back a few pages)?
When you did the download, did Continuata unrar all the files without any errors and place them in the correct folder?
What version of Kontakt are we discussing, and are you on a PC or a Mac?
Any information you could provide that would help others help you would be appreciated.


----------



## kolton

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

frank,
that's good to know, i thought since i'd read that other than opening previous work 
that version 1 could be deleted. that lead me to hope that an install of ver 2 might solve my problems.

your Q's:

Are your other Kontakt libraries problem free? 
yes 
Is your directory structure identical to the one shown in this thread (back a few pages)?
i believe so
When you did the download, did Continuata unrar all the files without any errors and place them in the correct folder?
as far as i can tell everything seems there.
What version of Kontakt are we discussing, and are you on a PC or a Mac?
latest version of kontakt 5.

thanks!


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

Hi Dan,
Hopefully by now Hendrik has contacted you, but here are a few more suggestions. I don't want to add too much more directly in this thread though, since it would be, as you suggested, off topic. 

Re: "I thought since I'd read that other than opening previous work 
that version 1 could be deleted. that lead me to hope that an install of ver 2 might solve my problems."
--The update is very small in size when compared with the first release, so it definitely doesn't replace everything. What we were discussing deleting was only the original Instrument folder not the Samples etc.

Re: "Are your other Kontakt libraries problem free? > Yes"
---Then that strongly suggests you had a problem with the download. If you are on PC, please right click on the Samples folder, choose Properties and let us know the size of your Samples folder. (On a Mac use Show Info).

Re:"Is your directory structure identical to the one shown in this thread (back a few pages)?> I believe so"
---Does that mean that yes, it is identical or you aren't 100% sure?  Please check if you haven't done so already.

Re: "as far as I can tell everything seems there."
---Folder content sizes and folder structures will reveal if everything is actually there.

When Kontakt can't find samples even though it's pointed to the correct folder, that initially suggests that there is a problem with some of the samples. Either they are corrupt or are indeed missing. That's why some of the first things to check are the ones I've mentioned. HTH.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



playz123 @ 29th August said:


> Hi Dan,
> Re: "I thought since I'd read that other than opening previous work
> that version 1 could be deleted. that lead me to hope that an install of ver 2 might solve my problems."
> --The update is very small in size when compared with the first release, so it definitely doesn't replace everything. What we were discussing deleting was only the original Instrument folder not the Samples etc.



Exactly. The only folder you can delete in the "Berlin Woodwinds 1.0" in the instruments folder and the "1.0" folder in the Multis folder. Nothing more, because the 1.1 patches need the old samples and system files...



playz123 @ 29th August said:


> Re: "Are your other Kontakt libraries problem free? > Yes"
> ---Then that strongly suggests you had a problem with the download. If you are on PC, please right click on the Samples folder, choose Properties and let us know the size of your Samples folder. (On a Mac use Show Info).
> 
> Re:"Is your directory structure identical to the one shown in this thread (back a few pages)?> I believe so"
> ---Does that mean that yes, it is identical or you aren't 100% sure?  Please check if you haven't done so already.
> 
> Re: "as far as I can tell everything seems there."
> ---Folder content sizes and folder structures will reveal if everything is actually there.



That´s what I would check first. The directory structure is very important, otherwise Kontakt can´t find the samples.
If that don´t solve the problem, I bed it relies on a corrupted download of a package. Do you got any error message during installation or extraction?

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Question

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

I wrote a private message to Hendrik with this request, and thought I would run this idea by other users:

This slight "Phasing" issue, which most multi-layer libraries suffer from, is only a problem for me when using a solo instrument in an intimate setting. (Which I often need for the type of work that I do)
This slight "Phase" issue is not a problem (for me) in an orchestral context, I only notice it when using, for example, a solo woodwind with a simple accompaniment.

What about making an additional patch with just one dynamic layer such as MP (Like Embertone's "Chapman Trumpet"), with the mod-wheel used as a volume swell?

This would allow me to have an intimate solo instrument sound in a situation where very little dynamic/Timbre contrast is required. 

Are there others that would find such a patch useful?

Optimally we would have dynamic layers with no phasing, but other than using the Sample Modeling technology, I don't see an easy solution for any developer.

I don't want any potential buyers to think this is a BIG problem; the library is quite good as it is!


----------



## Question

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

Ask Music,

maybe I didn't explain myself clearly.

I am talking about removing all but one of the dynamic layers from the (proposed) patch.
Whether the volume is controlled from velocity or mod wheel isn't so important to me.

You would only be playing one layer, say MP, (like in the old days).

This would be useful for me when I only need one layer, and eliminates any sort of phasing that might occur when cross-fading dynamic layers.


Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Question

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

Askmusic,

thanks for the response.
Yes, I understand about the velocity idea, but even at one velocity layer there is slightly audible phasing.

You are right about the developer not being able to implement every wish from every user, that's why I thought I would ask if this would be a useful patch for other users. Perhaps my needs are very different from others.

I might try to do the editing myself in Kontakt and see how far I get.


----------



## kolton

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

hi hendrik,
sorry to post off topic again.
is there an email address that i can send screenshots to you?
i've realized that the majority of the pm's i've sent are not going to the recipient.

thanks,
dan


----------



## kolton

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

hi hendrik,
sorry to post off topic again. 

i'm i correct that my pms are not getting to you?
i've sent three or four with screenshots as you requested.

thanks, dan


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Hi Kolton, I got the messages but both without the screenshot...

Can you send me this to info at orchestraltools.com?

I´m sure that will work.


----------



## Consona

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

Have you ever considered lite version of BWW? I really like the sound of the library and it's features but I really don't need all those 2nd and 3rd instruments.


----------



## benmrx

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



Consona @ Mon Oct 01 said:


> Have you ever considered lite version of BWW? I really like the sound of the library and it's features but I really don't need all those 2nd and 3rd instruments.



I asked the exact same thing a while back......, and ended up just getting BWW as is. I can say that I don't regret it one bit, even if a lite version got released tomorrow. Those extra instruments end up really coming in handy, even if you don't exactly need 3 separate flutes.


----------



## playz123

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



Consona @ Mon Oct 01 said:


> but I really don't need all those 2nd and 3rd instruments.



...or so you think right now!  But if you did have the full version, you might just feel differently perhaps?? As per @benmrx, I have no regrets either.


----------



## JohannesR

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

+1. Any news on the Bass Clarinet/Contrabassoon? Is it going to be an update to the existing library, or an add-on? ETA?


----------



## Consona

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



benmrx @ Mon Oct 01 said:


> Consona @ Mon Oct 01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever considered lite version of BWW? I really like the sound of the library and it's features but I really don't need all those 2nd and 3rd instruments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked the exact same thing a while back......, and ended up just getting BWW as is. I can say that I don't regret it one bit, even if a lite version got released tomorrow. Those extra instruments end up really coming in handy, even if you don't exactly need 3 separate flutes.
Click to expand...

Thank you for response. So I think I have to stick with Kontakt woodwinds + SIPS for now. In a fact I really like the sound of Kontakt woodwinds, it just lack some handy features.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

we thought about a light version some time ago and we ended up with releasing the full library only at this point. Maybe we will do a light version sometime but at the moment there are no plans for that.

Contra Bassoon and Bass Clarinet is in production now and I can't tell you any news actually. If it will be free or its pricing will be posted on its official announcement. There are several options at the moment for us.

BTW we're working on a huge free BWW 1.5 update anyway with additional sample material :D
News on that will be posted soon on our facebook page.

All the best,
Hendrik


----------



## Blakus

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

Ooo, exciting!


----------



## JohannesR

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Oct 04 said:


> BTW we're working on a huge free BWW 1.5 update anyway with additional sample material :D
> News on that will be posted soon on our facebook page.



Exciting, Hendrik!

I hope you will implement my suggestion for the Articulation Performer - if technically possible. At the moment BWW on my slave is a little hungry on VST3 VE Pro midi ports (one port pr. instrument). Sharing the same port, and having one midi channel pr. instrument would make BWW even tighter.


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## jamwerks

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

Looking forward to the 1.5.

IMO, if you added 4 solo instruments (Alto flute, E-flat Cl, Bass-Cl, Contrabassoon), with runs for the first three, and a couple extended articulations for the whole group of WW, you could call it BWW Pro, and change maybe $200.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I hope you're also hard at work on a brass library !!!


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## benmrx

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Oct 04 said:


> Contra Bassoon and Bass Clarinet is in production now and I can't tell you any news actually. If it will be free or its pricing will be posted on its official announcement. There are several options at the moment for us.
> 
> BTW we're working on a huge free BWW 1.5 update anyway with additional sample material :D
> News on that will be posted soon on our facebook page.
> 
> All the best,
> Hendrik



Nice! I never thought I would be this excited for a Contra Bassoon! Plus, now you've got me all curious about this 1.5 update! Looking forward to it..., what ever it is


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## inmusi

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Oct 04 said:


> BTW we're working on a huge free BWW 1.5 update anyway with additional sample material :D
> News on that will be posted soon on our facebook page.




Sooooo.... any news?


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## Sean Beeson

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

I bought BWW and am loving it so far!!! My question though is what can be done to reduce the CPU usage further? I am seeing sometimes as high as 8% CPU usage (in profiling mode) on a single legato instruments. 

I have a 3.4 ghz hexacore processor and haven't ever had an issue with CPU before, even while running my entire template which consists of SM Brass, HWS, HWB, WIVI, LASS, Albion, ect.

Turning off the key clicks helps, but I do want to keep the releases as they are oh so sweet :D Any ideas?

Fantastic product regardless!! Can't wait to hear what you have coming next.


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## ryanstrong

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



Sean Beeson @ Sun Nov 11 said:


> I bought BWW and am loving it so far!!! My question though is what can be done to reduce the CPU usage further? I am seeing sometimes as high as 8% CPU usage (in profiling mode) on a single legato instruments.
> 
> I have a 3.4 ghz hexacore processor and haven't ever had an issue with CPU before, even while running my entire template which consists of SM Brass, HWS, HWB, WIVI, LASS, Albion, ect.
> 
> Turning off the key clicks helps, but I do want to keep the releases as they are oh so sweet :D Any ideas?
> 
> Fantastic product regardless!! Can't wait to hear what you have coming next.



Good question, I get CPU spikes as well. Also some of the key clicks feel panned far from the instrument, maybe that's just how they are suppose to sound.

Having said all that I think it's a phenomenal library and LOVE the sound, tone, and legatos.


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## Mihkel Zilmer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



inmusi @ Tue Oct 30 said:


> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Oct 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW we're working on a huge free BWW 1.5 update anyway with additional sample material :D
> News on that will be posted soon on our facebook page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sooooo.... any news?
Click to expand...


Also impatiently waiting for some news!


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## Walid F.

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*



Mihkel @ Wed Dec 05 said:


> inmusi @ Tue Oct 30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hendrik-Schwarzer @ Thu Oct 04 said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW we're working on a huge free BWW 1.5 update anyway with additional sample material :D
> News on that will be posted soon on our facebook page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sooooo.... any news?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also impatiently waiting for some news!
Click to expand...


+1


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer

*Re: Announcing "Berlin Woodwinds" - NEW AUDIO DEMO ADDED*

Hey Guys,

there will be a new hotfix update for Berlin Woodwinds (v.1.7) which will fix the hanging notes bug.

All Berlin Woodwinds owner will receive their downloadlinks today!

Best,

Hendrik


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## milesito

Thanks Hendrik! Can't wait to get this one taken care of. It is a fantastic and inspiring sounding library!


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## dznyc

great news!

will these fixes be applied to expansion A and B as well?


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## pablo1980

Hi Hendrik, thanks for the update.
I have downloaded it manually and copied the contents to my installation folder.

I now have to remake my multis (using the articulation performer) entirely or just replace the legato instruments?

Thanks!


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## antoniopandrade

+1 on re-making template question.

It'd be nice to have a changelist to see if it's worth it or not to replace patches.


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## Richard Bowling

antoniopandrade @ Wed Jun 11 said:


> +1 on re-making template question.
> 
> It'd be nice to have a changelist to see if it's worth it or not to replace patches.



+1

Downloaded update but have not installed it yet. Don't want to have to rebuild multis


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## OT_Tobias

Hi folks!
You can just replace the legato patches, nothing else.

Cheers

Tobias


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## cacophonix

OT_Tobias @ Thu 12 Jun said:


> Hi folks!
> You can just replace the legato patches, nothing else.



Thank you, that is good to know! It'll save a lot of time


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