# Hobbyists or professionals own more libraries?



## Bman70 (May 27, 2021)

I was just musing about this after reading some sale threads. Do hobbyists / amateurs buy more libraries than professional working composers? Or is there no correlation? If so, what might be the reason? (I'd put myself in hobbyist category.) 

Do pros evaluate more rigorously whether a library is worth buying or not? Or do they think of it purely in terms of how it will complement their jobs? While hobbyists are more inclined to buy something for its own sake, because it's attractive as a VI in itself? Are hobbyists more prone to fall for shiny advertising, i.e. the "lie" that new libraries will make their music better? While pros are jaded and know nothing makes music better except education? I guess this could be called "Do pros get GAS?"


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## mybadmemory (May 27, 2021)

Regardless of field, I often find pros less inclined to get new stuff simply because that are busy doing actual work and have little time to learn new tools unless they see some true benefit in terms of quality or time saving. Replacing a workflow for a professional is always a risk, so the value of doing so has to be high.

Whereas hobbyists more often seem more interested in trying and acquiring everything new since that might just be the one thing thats still missing / needed for them to finally get on with the craft. Of course it isn’t. But even if it’s not, they don’t really risk anything, since they are under no deadlines anyway, and the tinkering is all just for fun. 

Im generalizing obviously, and these two personas exist within both hobbyists and professionals of course, but I do think that people genuinely interested in the craft itself more often go pro, and people more interested in the tools more often stay in hobbyist field.

In design I’m in the pro group, and I absolutely hate trying out new tools or ways of working. In music I’m a hobbyist, and am constantly looking for the next even better library. 😬


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## Bman70 (May 27, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Regardless of field, I often find pros less inclined to get new stuff simply because that are busy doing actual work and have little time to learn new tools unless they see some true benefit in terms of quality or time saving. Replacing a workflow for a professional is always a risk, so the value of doing so has to be high.
> 
> Whereas hobbyists more often seem more interested in trying and acquiring everything new since that might just be the one thing thats still missing / needed for them to finally get on with the craft. Of course it isn’t. But even if it’s not, they don’t really risk anything, since they are under no deadlines anyway, and the tinkering is all just for fun.
> 
> ...



That's a good point, about hating to change workflow as a pro. I totally relate – I tend to want my work computer and software to be like a time capsule, never changing. Even upgrades can be annoying. That could definitely be a factor in pros buying less new stuff..


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## mybadmemory (May 27, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> That's a good point, about hating to change workflow as a pro. I totally relate – I tend to want my work computer and software to be like a time capsule, never changing. Even upgrades can be annoying. That could definitely be a factor in pros buying less new stuff..


Yeah, i think as a pro you're most of the time in a delivery-state of mind where you just need to get it done to the quality you already know your setup can produce. Whereas as a hobbyist it's totally ok to be in the experimentation-state of mind where you can afford losing hours on tinkering without much actual result.


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## jbuhler (May 27, 2021)

There are way more hobbyists than pros, so even if pros buy more libraries on an individual basis, the market is almost surely dominated by hobbyists. 100 hobbyists buying 3 libraries each is far more libraries than 5 pros buying 10 libraries each. Also if you look at what’s being sold and the pricing structures in terms of sales, it’s pretty evident to me that hobbyists are the dominant market for VIs, and it isn’t even close. It’s likely true that many hobbyists buy more libraries as well since there seems to be a collectors‘ habit to a lot of hobbyist VI acquisition.


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## Chris Harper (May 28, 2021)

Obviously it depends on the nature of the work, but I’d be willing to bet that most pros think more about streamlined workflow and efficiency as opposed to getting a slightly different sound. If you use 20 string libraries, it’s really difficult to know any of them inside and out. If you use 2, you will quickly learn every little quirk and nuance of those 2. Time spent learning a new library is time not spent earning money. On the other hand, it makes a lot of sense from a professional perspective to have any tool that will get a better result faster. For that, owning many auxiliary libraries makes sense. If you need a convincing erhu, it makes much more sense to have a good one quickly available (or quickly go buy the best one you can find) instead of trying to make one of the five crappy ones from your stock libraries work. If you need to finish a cue in 2 or 3 hours, you can’t spend one hour auditioning samples.

That being said, composers who do mostly traditional orchestral scores will obviously have very different needs then those who are cranking out production music tracks.


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## Alex Fraser (May 28, 2021)

Depends on the definition of working composer. Certainly someone like me (who's no A-Lister) has to put any new purchases through a ROI process, as much as I'd like to smash a credit card on the latest Spitfire sale instead. I think it's as much about available funds as anything else.

Also, I think that the "hobbyist" market (we need a better term for that) is great for the VI business. Clearly, it's working. And more money into the business means things like Spitfire's Abbey Road project can be funded = ultimately a win for everyone.


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## clarkcontrol (May 28, 2021)

Maybe “Prosumer” would be better than hobbyist. 

I find that speed is way more important than that last 5% of realness. A lot of my commissions use just the built in sounds from logic. Surprisingly good results can be had with stock sounds and the judicious sprinkle of a few apple loops. 

As an example, my last piece was all apple and heavyocity intimate textures. 

But the GAS is still real lol I just rarely have the luxury of exploring/troubleshooting when the clock is ticking.


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## Evans (May 29, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Replacing a workflow for a professional is always a risk, so the value of doing so has to be high.


This is incredibly accurate!

Obviously, there are a lot of people who are looking for the skeleton key to unlock their full potential, but it's pretty simple for me: I buy a lot of libraries (and scores) because I like to and I have a solid, longstanding career to support such hobbies. It pays to be getting a little older.

I'm not exclusively unpaid, but it's insignificant within the context of our household income. I have no aspirations here beyond personal joy, and certainly haven't developed the skills that warrant more than small projects.

When I do have a good project, I almost always go to the same old textural stuff and solo instruments that I have for years on end (except Noire, which was a more recent purchase and I started using a lot).


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## DimensionsTomorrow (May 29, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Regardless of field, I often find pros less inclined to get new stuff simply because that are busy doing actual work and have little time to learn new tools unless they see some true benefit in terms of quality or time saving. Replacing a workflow for a professional is always a risk, so the value of doing so has to be high.
> 
> Whereas hobbyists more often seem more interested in trying and acquiring everything new since that might just be the one thing thats still missing / needed for them to finally get on with the craft. Of course it isn’t. But even if it’s not, they don’t really risk anything, since they are under no deadlines anyway, and the tinkering is all just for fun.
> 
> ...


Definitely. A drummer buddy of mine was saying the same thing recently. When he’s gigging a lot he almost never buys new gear, but when he stops he’s constantly checking out cymbals and stuff.

Music is just a hobby for me (albeit a passion), but as I believe knowledge and skills always trump gear, I’ve decided to put more of my time and money toward education/practice.

I’m taking composition/harmony classes with a private instructor, so I have to do several tracks a month as part of that. I also recently took up the flute, so I’m taking lessons for that now too.

I’m also toying with the idea of taking a percussion class (or maybe even a group ensemble class) as I think that would be not only good for rhythm chops but would be a great stress relief. It would be nice to interact with other like-minded people as well!

All of that should leave a lot less time for buying gear, and will hopefully translate into better music.


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## JohnG (May 29, 2021)

One difference for my own evolution is that I have far better monitoring (amp, speakers, converters) today than when I started. I think I can _hear_ so much better now that it's easier to pick out sounds that will make a meaningful difference to an already large palette.

As a result, when I audition something like Abbey Road One or some of the Sonica Instruments samples, or some of the amazing choirs that have come out in recent years, I think I can hear much more accurately what it will (or won't) contribute.

If only my family would upgrade their own audio, maybe they would listen to me more...


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## river angler (May 29, 2021)

It depends what genre of pro composers you are referring to! but generally hobbyists definitely! I find it boggling how many libraries they buy like a drug addition!

Pro composers don't often buy a library on a wim - they buy what they need to do a job. If they do have a lot of libraries it would only be partly an accumulation of specific ones that had been acquired for past projects.

A lot of pro composers, especially those "in the limelight" get bombarded with the latest plugins from developers way before they get released to the general public. This is particularly common in the film trailer industry but probably one of the few genres where composers of this style are either actively seeking the latest software sounds or completely ignore them because they are composing their own self created soundesign/samples. If your musical content is up to snuff, conjuring your own unique samples in the trailer industry always gives you an edge. The trouble with jumping on to the very latest sounds on offer is that they are soon over used and then fall into "judicious use" after their initial uniqueness has dissipated.

Traditional film composers, the ones with a distinctive style, however are focussed on the originality of their content in base musical terms. This means they don't have to have access to a myriad of string libraries or a myriad of piano libraries for example to get the basic piece written. That they may seek out a particular string sample after the pieces are written is another thing but the difference between the hobbyist and a pro is that the pro will normally seek a specific sound only after the piece has been written. EastWest's composer cloud was set up specifically for this reason to attract pros as they can search through a vast database for what they specifically need for a particular project. They know when a composition is right structurally way before they start arranging it sonically. Hence they usually have a pretty good idea of the samples they need sonically to fulfil the various elements of the piece's construct.

When it comes to more synthesised/soundesigned scores again the more discerning pros want to keep pushing themselves to maintain their own musical identity: part of that identity is kept in tact by careful choice of sonics. This is not actually "a choice of what sample to use" but more about how they use or manipulate a sample. When time is money the last thing any composer wants to face is too much choice in a sound pool. Most pro composers tend to reach for synth type libraries they have used for a long time and know well. If they really feel they can't get what they are looking for from a specific trusty synth design plugin they will likely look at conjuring a sonic in a different way with other tools and only reach out for a new synth as a last resort if only because they are not familiar with it. Generally if possible they prefer to stretch their own musical prowess to tame new sounds from the plugin synths they already know.

I kind of said it all in my opening sentence: a pro only buys what he needs- a hobbyist seems to continue buying libraries almost indiscriminately at least as far as I have seen in the few years I have been visiting this forum!


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## jbuhler (May 29, 2021)

For non-collectors, whether pro, hobbyist or otherwise, the most aggressive acquisition tends to happen as you move into a new area of VIs—say when you start acquiring specialist string libraries or choirs, brass, whatever— because it can be a puzzle to figure out which libraries in that class are best suited to your music. So you often make mistakes of sorts. I acquired a lot of unusable choirs (for me) because I was having a hard time wrapping my head around what I actually needed. I made fewer mistakes with solo strings even though I have a lot. Each of them does something that I needed for my music that the others did not. I have even more string libraries and nearly all of them get used in a regular basis, even the ensemble libraries. Interestingly the one that doesn’t get used much is Berlin Strings, even though it is well regarded and it may have the sound I like best. But I hate programming it, so it sits waiting for the port to Sine...

In any case, the point is: you will make mistakes when you first start buying VIs, but it’s hard to even call these first mis-purchases mistakes inasmuch they serve to teach you what you in fact need.


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## Bman70 (May 29, 2021)

river angler said:


> It depends what genre of pro composers you are referring to! but generally hobbyists definitely! I find it boggling how many libraries they buy like a drug addition!


I was hoping maybe some hints would come up about how to avoid GAS. It can get ridiculous, although I've managed to avoid most of the current sales. As a hobbyist myself, I think maybe GAS is more severe specifically because we don't have some objective way of seeing a library's value in measurable terms. All libraries become somewhat equal when you don't have that understanding of what your "bread and butter" sounds are, the ones that perform to a specific (lucrative) result. Pros need sounds that get their compositions sold. Hobbyists need sounds that just sound "good" without any parameters on that. So that might add to the sense that you need all of them. 



jbuhler said:


> In any case, the point is: you will make mistakes when you first start buying VIs, but it’s hard to even call these first mis-purchases mistakes inasmuch they serve to teach you what you in fact need.


Yes that seems to be part of the process, so far, until and if the trend moves toward having trial periods for VIs. That would be game changing for the wallet... even a day of testing a library could prevent a pricey learning experience.


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## Evans (May 30, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> As a hobbyist myself, I think maybe GAS is more severe specifically because we don't have some objective way of seeing a library's value in measurable terms.


Perhaps not measurable in the sense of financial return on a new instrument or plugin pickup, but I do think of my purchases in the context of being able to "finish something."

Have I been thinking about a genre shift and simply don't have the stuff, like a strings VI with uncommon articulations, or a certain effects plugin? Was I transcribing something and didn't have an agile enough solo whatever-the-heck? That's often the basis for what I buy.

To me, that's measurable, just not in the context of monies. It does mean, however, that a $100 VI and a $600 VI can often have the same "completion value" for me with no financial return.


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## river angler (May 30, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> I was hoping maybe some hints would come up about how to avoid GAS. It can get ridiculous, although I've managed to avoid most of the current sales. As a hobbyist myself, I think maybe GAS is more severe specifically because we don't have some objective way of seeing a library's value in measurable terms. All libraries become somewhat equal when you don't have that understanding of what your "bread and butter" sounds are, the ones that perform to a specific (lucrative) result. Pros need sounds that get their compositions sold. Hobbyists need sounds that just sound "good" without any parameters on that. So that might add to the sense that you need all of them.


...well!... I don't actually know what GAS stands for!!! I just googled it to try and find out! ...Really! ...I can only presume it's short for something like "growing addiction syndrome"...? (did I guess right?)

In any case my best advise for a hobbyist who is keen to explore his creative mind is to realise fundamentally that creating music is not born from having every "flavour" of instrument at his or her disposal. Developing ones musical potential is about stretching the boundaries of the few libraries one already owns. By "stretching the boundaries" I mean exploring the different musical ways one can use those libraries notationally, rhythmically, harmonically. In a word: improvising.

The creative journey for all established pro composers derived from having limited tools originally. Regardless of commercial success it was that perseverance to seek out their creativity in musical terms that got them to where their craft is today.

As a pure "craft" creating good music is no different for a pro or a hobbyist. There are some great "hobbyist" pieces written some of which I and other pros have praised on this forum but I would bet that even those hobbyists have learned the lesson: that it's not about taming "GAS" but exploring the potential of ones musical mind using just a few instruments and only then, when the piece has been written, acquiring the most appropriate samples they need to present their masterpiece!

Contrary to the discerning hobbyist, the pit that a lot of others fall into is actually goaded by the growing use of AI in developers designs. AI is like the added sugar or salt in food: made to make you want to eat more! Phrase libraries for example are not doing the hobbyist any favours if they want to learn how to create their own phrases! Phrases are born from physically striking the keyboard: from improvising and letting your ears decide wether the sequence of notes you have played sounds pleasing or not. Similarly: yes! some sounds/presets can be inspiring to set off the initial spark of a new composition but to continually approach the creative process this way is counter productive and actually prohibitive to expanding the potential of ones own explorative/creative mind let alone costly! Developers are well aware that "AI candy" sells products to hobbyists!

Being a river angler myself (!) I can tell you that the library market is no different from a fisherman that walks into a fishing tackle store: there's more tackle in that Aladin's cave to catch anglers than fish!


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## chillbot (May 30, 2021)

river angler said:


> I don't actually know what GAS stands for!!!


There is this very helpful thread here:






Glossary of VI-C Abbreviations


AAF: Able Artist Foundation (link) AAX: Avid Audio Extension (plugin format created for Pro Tools) AB: Adventure Brass (Music Sampling) AD/AD2: Addictive Drums (XLN Audio) AI: Audio Imperia ALB1/ALB2/ALB3/etc: Albion Series (Spitfire) ALBO: Albion ONE (Spitfire) AM: Audio Modeling AMS: Aleatoric...




vi-control.net


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## river angler (May 30, 2021)

chillbot said:


> There is this very helpful thread here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gear Acquisition Syndrome! LOL! ...I guess a majority of hobbyists here are actually more "gadget" crazy than driven by musical desire!


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## lullaby (Jun 6, 2021)

river angler said:


> Gear Acquisition Syndrome! LOL! ...I guess a majority of hobbyists here are actually more "gadget" crazy than driven by musical desire!


Can confirm this


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