# MIDI Editing within Reaper



## ghandizilla (Jan 9, 2018)

Having just remade all my templates under Reaper, I was accustomed to the piano roll of FL Studio. I'm still in the test period, didn't buy it yet, but I noticed I was really slower inputing on the Reaper MIDI Editor, though the rest of the workflow got much faster.

Do you have tips to improve your MIDI Data inputing workflow on Reaper ?


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## EvilDragon (Jan 9, 2018)

Yes, have a play with mouse modifiers. You can get it quite near to FL Studio's experience. Preferences->Editing Behavior->Mouse modifiers.


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## James Marshall (Jan 9, 2018)

There's also huge scope for extending the MIDI editor functionality with a few scripts. It can be a powerful editor with a little tweaking


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## gregh (Jan 9, 2018)

It is very clunky without using scripts and very clunky using them. Like most things Reaper the functionality is enormous but actually using that takes a lot of time and effort and relies on the unpaid labour of other users. Who may or may not continue supporting the scripts you rely on. But if you are a coder yourself and dont mind the appearance then Reaper is very good


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## EvilDragon (Jan 9, 2018)

It's absolutely not clunky without those scripts. I've set up a pretty smooth MIDI editing experience for myself, just by tweaking the mouse modifiers and reassigning some key bindings.


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## ghandizilla (Jan 9, 2018)

I've tweaked some MIDI modifiers to make it more like FL (right-click delete) but still not enough to make it fluid. For exemple I'd like not to size everything upfront but resize afterwards if needed. It's difficult to manually draw on the CC lane. I wonder if I could get through it with scripts.


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## EvilDragon (Jan 9, 2018)

You can also change that with mouse modifiers.

Context: MIDI piano roll left drag, default action: "Insert note, drag to move". Then it's like FL. Might wanna add: MIDI piano roll left click, defautl action "Insert note".

CC lanes: make sure that these two contexts have the same default action: MIDI CC event left click/drag, MIDI CC lane event left click/drag. Set default action to "Edit selected CC events if any, otherwise draw/edit. For Shift modifier, add the same action, but "ignoring snap" version.


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## gregh (Jan 9, 2018)

ghandizilla said:


> I've tweaked some MIDI modifiers to make it more like FL (right-click delete) but still not enough to make it fluid. For exemple I'd like not to size everything upfront but resize afterwards if needed. It's difficult to manually draw on the CC lane. I wonder if I could get through it with scripts.


It will never be as good as FL because the underlying design is not thought about at all in terms of design / contrast of elements and so on. There will be scripts but they also will not be based around any underlying design philosophy. Some people dont care about that at all, others do. I think some people have had success hosting FL as a vst within Reaper so that they can use the FL piano roll


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## EvilDragon (Jan 9, 2018)

You can get about 90-95% there and be as smooth as FL Studio piano roll, just with changing mouse modifiers to match. I've used FL (ages ago), but not any longer since I got very near to that sort of editing in Reaper. However, I didn't like some FL piano roll behaviors, so I changed them in Reaper (because it's easy). I like, for example, to adjust the length of note before I move it to its position, and it was a simple mouse modifier change. Yay!


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## James Marshall (Jan 9, 2018)

gregh said:


> It will never be as good as FL because the underlying design is not thought about at all in terms of design / contrast of elements and so on. There will be scripts but they also will not be based around any underlying design philosophy. Some people dont care about that at all, others do. I think some people have had success hosting FL as a vst within Reaper so that they can use the FL piano roll



How is this a valid contribution? The OP asked _"Do you have tips to improve your MIDI Data inputing workflow on Reaper?"_ EvilDragon and I have provided suggestions.

I really wish you'd stop hijacking every Reaper-based thread trying to direct people away from using the software, it really is getting quite tiresome


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Jan 9, 2018)

ghandizilla said:


> I've tweaked some MIDI modifiers to make it more like FL (right-click delete)



How did you manage to get that working? I don't see right-click options for any context (and wouldn't expect to, since the right button is one of the things Reaper keeps sacred from customizing)


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## EvilDragon (Jan 9, 2018)

You have right drag for "MIDI editor" context, and you can set that to erase notes or CCs. So you can do a sweep motion for erasing events.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Jan 9, 2018)

Ah, right. It was specifically the right-click that confused me. Thanks!


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## EvilDragon (Jan 9, 2018)

Right-click is reserved for the context menu... however with above suggestion that menu is still there if you click. There's a separate mouse modifier for that context to suppress the context menu, then you have your right-click delete.


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## ghandizilla (Jan 9, 2018)

Big thanks to @EvilDragon ; though I managed some days ago to do the right-click thing searching the right tweaking through other forums, I didn't know there were mouse modifiers just for the CC lane, it's insane and it might save me some time


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## ghandizilla (Jan 9, 2018)

Another problem I met is that I tried to link the mouse wheel with scrolling and ctrl+alt with zooming (interverting the corresponding modifiers), and it didn't work. I have absolutely no idea what I did wrong.


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## EvilDragon (Jan 9, 2018)

You do that in Action list. Choose the MIDI editor context there (top right corner), then search for actions with "mousewheel" in their name. Knock yourself out. You can do the same for the "Main" context, to have the scrolling/zooming mousewheeling identical between MIDI editor and main arrange view.


My mouse (Logitech MX Master) has two scrollwheels (vertical AND horizontal), so I just use them by default for scrolling, and by holding Alt, they are zooming. It's bliss


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## James Marshall (Jan 9, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> My mouse (Logitech MX Master) has two scrollwheels (vertical AND horizontal), so I just use them by default for scrolling, and by holding Alt, they are zooming. It's bliss



I'm using the same mouse! It's so nice that the horizontal wheel can be mapped too, I couldn't do zooming without it now


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## storyteller (Jan 9, 2018)

There are a number of midi scripts available from Julian Sader that help the midi editing experience out tremendously. While the videos below are from OTR, they demonstrate how these scripts can be properly implemented and function in actual true midi editing workflow even if you are not using OTR. Prior to me making these videos there were only some animated gifs available that demonstrated a few seconds of each of his scripts in action.







Hope this helps!

-J


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## ghandizilla (Jan 9, 2018)

It's a genuine question, but even if I do see the point of drawing perfect exponential curves for synths, on virtual instruments, I'd rather draw it myself, for humanization purpose. In fact, most of these scripts don't seem so appealing for me for this very reason.


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## LFO (Jan 9, 2018)

Wow, scripting in the MIDI editor has come a looooong way. Great stuff!

Can you now edit multiple MIDI tracks at the same time like you can in Cubase? There was also a movement for tabbed MIDI editors, did anything ever come of it?


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## EgM (Jan 9, 2018)

I love Reaper, but until the midi editor remembers my zoom level settings, it ain't usable for me...


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## robgb (Jan 9, 2018)

gregh said:


> It is very clunky without using scripts and very clunky using them.


I guess it comes down to user experience, because I don't find it clunky in the least. After using three other DAWs, I've found the midi editing in Reaper to be an immense pleasure, especially after creating a few custom actions (macros) that allow me to do certain things with the click of a button on the menu (switch CC lanes instantly, for example).


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## robgb (Jan 9, 2018)

EgM said:


> I love Reaper, but until the midi editor remembers my zoom level settings, it ain't usable.


Can't you simply add your zoom level settings to the menu and click a button? That's what I do.


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## EgM (Jan 9, 2018)

robgb said:


> Can't you simply add your zoom level settings to the menu and click a button? That's what I do.



Tried everything, with custom actions, SWS, etc. it never stays as it should be.


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## robgb (Jan 9, 2018)

EgM said:


> Tried everything, with custom actions, SWS, etc. it never stays as it should be.


I'd be curious to know what it is you're trying to achieve. Zooming is fairly basic and only takes seconds. What zoom level settings are you trying to maintain?


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## EgM (Jan 9, 2018)

robgb said:


> I'd be curious to know what it is you're trying to achieve. Zooming is fairly basic and only takes seconds. What zoom level settings are you trying to maintain?



That's the thing, I don't want to zoom *at all* I want the piano roll to show the *same* horizontal view all the time, like all the other DAWs, i.e.:
*1*....|....|....|....*2*....|....|....|....*3*....|....|....|....*4*

Definitely not this...:
*1*.|.*3*.|.*5*.|.*7*.|.*9*

or this:
*1*....1.2....1.3....1.4....*2*....2.2....2.3....2.4....*3*....3.2....3.3....3.4....*4*....


Thing is, even if I spend time readjusting the piano roll view on all the tracks, once you click on another track it forgets the settings. I've tried One midi editor per project and all the other settings to no avail.

Reaper seems to adjust the horizontal zooming to the clip length and tries to fit it all in the window which is not very useful.

This thread discusses the issue:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=91048

I should add that I'm on Mac but last I tried on Windows it was the same.


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## robgb (Jan 9, 2018)

EgM said:


> Reaper seems to adjust the horizontal zooming to the clip length and tries to fit it all in the window which is not very useful.
> 
> I should add that I'm on Mac but last I tried on Windows it was the same.



Interesting. I'm not sure why this would be important, but we obviously have different needs. When I open the midi editor, I just immediately zoom to loop or select and zoom to selection, actions that I've added to the midi toolbar. Only takes a second. With all due respect it seems like an odd thing to point to to deem Reaper unusable, but to each his own.


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## EgM (Jan 9, 2018)

robgb said:


> Interesting. I'm not sure why this would be important, but we obviously have different needs. When I open the midi editor, I just immediately zoom to loop or select and zoom to selection, actions that I've added to the midi toolbar. Only takes a second. With all due respect it seems like an odd thing to point to to deem Reaper unusable, but to each his own.



I understand that some people can get used to anything, I sure can't... I've used multiple DAWs with piano rolls since 1987 or so and Reaper's the first one I've seen to behave like this. I did mean unusable _for me_, of course.


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## robgb (Jan 9, 2018)

EgM said:


> I did mean unusable _for me_, of course.


Of course.


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## EvilDragon (Jan 10, 2018)

Regarding the MIDI editor zoom issue, I nailed the exact cause it happens.

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=1894787&postcount=79

I hope that this detective work won't go to waste... it seems like a relatively simple thing to fix...


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Jan 10, 2018)

LFO said:


> Can you now edit multiple MIDI tracks at the same time like you can in Cubase? There was also a movement for tabbed MIDI editors, did anything ever come of it?



Almost, but not as smooth. I finally got something working where I can toggle between "Edit all parts" and "Edit current part" and a hotkey to switch between parts - but it's a little hacky / has undesired quirks.


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## James Marshall (Jan 10, 2018)

You can edit multiple MIDI tracks at the same time.

In preferences you'll need to go to *Editing Behaviour > MIDI Editor* and set *Behaviour for "open items in built-in editor"* to *Open all MIDI in the project.
*
You can then tweak the checkboxes under _*When using one MIDI editor per project *_to tweak the behaviour further.

I have it set up so that if I highlight multiple media items, the MIDI editor will show (and allow editing) of all MIDI data for those items. 

If you're full-screening the MIDI editor and it's a pain to switch back to the Arrange view you can also use the 'Track List' in the MIDI editor and highlight which tracks you want to edit at the same time. Another way is show the 'Media Item Lane' *Contents > Media Item Lane *from the MIDI editor, and select multiple media items to edit.

There's so many different ways of achieving it, it's just finding what works for you


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## LFO (Jan 10, 2018)

Thanks @James Marshall and @Rasmus Hartvig, this is helpful. I am primarily a Cubase user, but have been purchasing and cheating on Cubase with Reaper since version 4 was released. I have paid for Reaper over the years because I just don't feel comfortable using it without paying and I simply want to support Cockos.

It looks like I have something new to play with and see how the workflow fits the way I think. It sounds like functionally Reaper has gotten closer to what I need MIDI-wise. I like keeping things simple and Cubase does just that. Reaper takes a lot more bandwidth to learn all the options so that you get things working the way you want them to. I see merit in the flexibility and myriad of options, but it the sheer amount of menus, scripts, checkboxes, one option changing how another option works, etc. takes that level of flexiblity to a fault. Maybe I'm just lazy.  That being said, Reaper is just plain fun. It's kinda like trying to decide between two women. One is easier to get along with but she likes you to spend big dollars on her. The other is high maintenance but better looking and a cheap date.


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## ghandizilla (Jan 10, 2018)

In the MIDI & Virtual Instruments category of the Videos on the official site, you'll find a video called "MIDI Editor Preferences" in which you see what @James Marshall talked about in action. See also the Mouse Modifiers section in Setting Up Shop, there are a bunch of videos about mouse modifiers in the MIDI Editor.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Jan 10, 2018)

LFO said:


> I am primarily a Cubase user, but have been purchasing and cheating on Cubase with Reaper since version 4 was released. I have paid for Reaper over the years because I just don't feel comfortable using it without paying and I simply want to support Cockos.



That was exactly the same situation I was in for the longest time. I did all my sound design work in Reaper, and music in Cubase. That started to seem ridiculous so I switched to doing music in Reaper as well. There are still a couple of things from Cubase that I really miss (CC editing, the way editing multiple parts work), but on the whole I'm ecstatic to have left Steinberg's pile of bloat behind. Yes, the customization options are daunting (and infuriating when they almost but not quite can do what you want), but over the years I've built a workflow that in all the important ways are so much faster than what could be achieved in other DAWs. I'm only half joking when I tell fellow sound designers that I consider it unethical to charge their customers for more hours because they are using a DAW with a more clunky workflow 

My one tip, above all else, for streamlining workflow and digging less in menus: If you haven't already, check out SWS contextual toolbars. I have a bunch of menus set up for different things, and the all bind to the same key. So if I mouse over an audio item and press 'F', I get a pop up toolbar with the stuff I most often want to do to an audio item: Reverse, Render with tail, Add Fabfilter Pro-Q2, show pitch envelope and so on. Same goes for midi items, CC lanes, empty track list space ("Add track with Kontakt").


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## storyteller (Jan 10, 2018)

LFO said:


> Wow, scripting in the MIDI editor has come a looooong way. Great stuff!
> 
> Can you now edit multiple MIDI tracks at the same time like you can in Cubase? There was also a movement for tabbed MIDI editors, did anything ever come of it?


While there are not tabs per se, there is a track list available in the midi editor that I like to keep visible on the right pane of the editor (i use a floating editor). This way I can command+click on the track list and show multiple midi tracks in the same editor. That same track list has a toggle icon next to the tracks that indicates which one you are actively editing, so you can jump between editing each of them.


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## EvilDragon (Jan 10, 2018)

LFO said:


> It's kinda like trying to decide between two women.



No man should ever refuse a threesome with two women.


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## Phillip (Jan 10, 2018)

Just toggle them.


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## ghandizilla (Feb 5, 2018)

In the Actions menu (MIDI editor context), I assigned various keyboard shortcuts to various grid snap setting. In addition to the "(just) insert note" left-click behaviour, it has greatly improved my MIDI data editing routine. I think I am now as fast as I was in FL Studio 

(In fact, I also use alt + mousewheel with the mpl Set MIDI Editor grid script, available in Reapack. This way, sometimes I use the keypad grid switch + right click delete routine, sometimes the alt mousewheel grid switch + alt left click delete routine. Either case, I can just grab the nearest combination without moving my hands.)


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## Tommy Zai (Nov 22, 2019)

Midi Event List Editor in Reaper? Vertical list?


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