# The reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. :)



## Markus S (Apr 15, 2014)

Sorry guys, after some research I am suppressing the email, I believe it falls under the copyright law and forum rules : 

11. Please refrain from posting any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you.

So, mainly the story was : I get approached by a company, that wasn't named here and they offered to release my music without any payment or profit share with some kind of narration & story on it. The explanation was very long and phrased so eloquently corporate-like, that I thought it would be fun to share this in a shrinking music budget world. But I did some research and apparently there is copyright on emails, so in the doubt I'm removing this.


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## Farkle (Apr 15, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

<Slow Clap>.


Wow.

Just.

Wow.


Mike


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## RiffWraith (Apr 15, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

Where do I sign up????


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## Adrian Myers (Apr 15, 2014)

Makes you wonder what email the authors and narrators got.


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## Markus S (Apr 15, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



RiffWraith @ Tue Apr 15 said:


> Where do I sign up????



I won't reveal the companies name to keep my advantage over the competition.. seems there are already "literally" thousands of musicians struggling to get in..


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## Daryl (Apr 15, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



Markus S @ Tue Apr 15 said:


> RiffWraith @ Tue Apr 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Where do I sign up????
> ...


That's so selfish of you..... :lol: 

D


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## RiffWraith (Apr 15, 2014)

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Markus S @ Wed Apr 16 said:


> RiffWraith @ Tue Apr 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Where do I sign up????
> ...



BOOO!!! :evil: 

I demand to know! I must - repeat MUST - get in here!!! My career depends on it!!!!!!!


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## Valérie_D (Apr 15, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

(Excuse my english) 

I started a cooking business recently so I naturally sent out for fifteen croc-pots, the suppliers accepted to not be financially compensated because the fact that people eat the food being cooked in them gives them, somehow, visibility and allows these suppliers to not go out of business themselves.


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## Adrian Myers (Apr 15, 2014)

Well yeah I mean with that kind of exposure on offer... this new company that can't pay bills and is in touch with thousands of musicians is clearly the next kingmaker. It's not that glistening one-time $20 payout, it's being a part of something so beautiful.


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## Jaap (Apr 15, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

I would make a movie and sent it to them.

The movie is staring a baker and me

I go to the baker and I ask 25 breads because I need them for a big dinner with 50 people and bread is one the hero's at the banquet.
The baker gives me a price and I react very suprised and my text will be:
"Listen, this is great exposure for you because there will be 50 people eating YOUR bread and if somebody asks who made this bread I might give them YOUR name and that could mean that he will buy maybe a bread at your bakery next time. Imagine what great exposure that would be and how that will boost your bakery!!!! "

The baker looks at me and calls the police.

End scene is that I am being arrested and taken away by the police and charged with attempted robbery


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## Neifion (Apr 15, 2014)

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The fact that the author was so articulate made the nonsense that much better. :D


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## Markus S (Apr 16, 2014)

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It all seems too good to be true, right?


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## Jaap (Apr 16, 2014)

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Markus S @ Wed Apr 16 said:


> It all seems too good to be true, right?



I envy you!


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## Markus S (Apr 16, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



Jaap @ Wed Apr 16 said:


> Markus S @ Wed Apr 16 said:
> 
> 
> > It all seems too good to be true, right?
> ...



Yeah, but don't believe it's sheer luck - it's been a long and winding road to get there. For all aspiring composers out there, here is my message to you : as you can see, the hard work will some day pay off!

This is from the first email :Sorry guys, after some research I am suppressing the email, I believe it falls under the copyright law and forum rules :

I'm suppressing this because of the forum rules - 11. Please refrain from posting any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you.


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## Martin K (Apr 16, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

Congratulations man. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity. Please think about the rest of us once in a while when you now step into the realm of awesomeness. I'll keep checking my inbox for a similar deal, but I can only hope...


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## Stephen Rees (Apr 16, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

I expect to be paid for not writing any music. People should be grateful to have my name on their credits as composer even though I haven't written any music for it.

The reason why I expect to be paid for doing no music is that I already have plenty of gigs where I do get paid well for doing the music, so I just don't need the additional work. But since you want my name on your credits list to enhance the quality of your production, I will allow you to do so providing it is understood that I don't write any music.

I 'monetize' (note: using made up words that are intended to sound cool and professional does not make you look cool and professional) my work by receiving money (I'm a traditionalist like that).

Sorry for my useless post by the way friends and colleagues. But somehow it made me feel better writing it


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## wonshu (Apr 16, 2014)

Excuse my German: was soll diese Scheisse?

But the bigger question is: how much is that different from music libraries buying a track for (help me out people who worked for them) € 75,- to be able to then sell it all lover the world without further compensation.

It brings up the larger question: How can we as a collective regain some position in the marketplace and get the up and coming composers to understand the business side of composing music? Such a daunting task.

Oh well... I had a good laugh with many of the comments here! Especially Markus S. not revealing the name of the company so as to not increase competition. :-D


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## Daryl (Apr 16, 2014)

wonshu @ Wed Apr 16 said:


> But the bigger question is: how much is that different from music libraries buying a track for (help me out people who worked for them) € 75,- to be able to then sell it all lover the world without further compensation.


I know nothing about the situation in Germany, but in the UK that is not possible.

D


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## rayinstirling (Apr 16, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

@ woshu,

It seems you've highlighted a great example for others.

Why pay for banner ads when you can use your signature for free?

_-)


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## Barrie B (Apr 16, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

Please put up details of the company so that we can email them - I'd certainly like to...

B


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## Jimbo 88 (Apr 16, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

You should let us know who this is so we can avoid their product/company at all cost.


The sad thing is, and Ive seen and learned this the hard way, if you work for free you get pegged as that guy. The cheap guy who does great work for very little. If they do get a budget for music are they going to use the cheap guy? Nope, they are going to use the flashy "big Name" type guy and dump the cheap guy like a hot potato..


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## Stephen Rees (Apr 16, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

I've been thinking about the word 'monetize' actually and changed my mind. It is a great new word. Instead of composing music for things in future, I'm going to 'musicize' them.


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## wonshu (Apr 16, 2014)

Daryl @ Wed Apr 16 said:


> I know nothing about the situation in Germany, but in the UK that is not possible.
> 
> D



Yes, you're right. In Germany there is a law that states that you have to be "adequately compensated". Of course in relation to the volume of the job in question.

The problem is, that

A) creators don't really know about this fact and are afraid to take their "clients" to court out of fear of loosing everyone else in the industry

B) companies seem to ignore that law (which is easy because of A)

It's something that we try very hard to work against in the Composers Club (and ECSA on a European level).

It would be great if someone who works under these unfair conditions would sue one of the TV stations or film producers. That way the blanket license of the PROs would look a lot more attractive and make sense all of a sudden.

Best,
Hans


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## gsilbers (Apr 16, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

always interesting to see these posts since i sometimes know how much money a licences for a movie or tv show sells around the world. those made for tv movies licences for example cost hundred of thousands for just one country, one channel. 
yet, payment for the composer prolly didnt go beyond $10k. i guess royalties help out, but italy for example is is notorious for lack of royalty info. yet sky italia pays a lot of dough for a single license. doesnt seem we , as a whole are on board with this information which soley lives around the execs prod of the show and their network deals. we only see that a movie or tv show will only be shown on cable a few times and we say.. oh thats nice... and maybe some foriegn royalties... but we fail to see that each license given to a tv broadcaster in each country (sometimes several in each country x many countries) costs soooo much money. imo, that breach between licenses sold abroad and composer/musician compensation should be crossed. the only issue, besides greed, is the the issue with lawyers and doing things differntly. whic means execs have to pay a laywer the same amount they will pay you to complete the score to change the contract or make a points deal. anyways.. just wanted to share a random post on a random part of the web to help this society. o


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## Inductance (Apr 16, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

Wow.

If the composer is considered "part of the team," then why not offer upfront a percentage of the profits? For perpetuity? For ever and ever? 

But come on, we all know this is the ONLY reason they can afford to say, "We won't pay you..."

"The primary reason for this is that we have access to literally thousands of musicians who believe, as we do, that an association with ..., in and of itself, is more valuable than any dollar amount that we could pay them"

The "we don't really need music" part is BS, imo. And the "we might not ever use it" can apply to anything in any project. "Actor, we can't pay you because there is a chance we might cut your scene. Or we might replace you altogether." Sure.

There is a cost to everything, and to everything there is a risk. But at this point in time, composers are cheap and plentiful, so finding music isn't a risky ordeal for them.

Markus, thank you for posting this. It's been a real eye-opener.


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## scientist (Apr 16, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

wow. i see the exposure-as-compensation line get tossed around plenty, but this takes it to new heights. such thought and eloquence put into justifying shifty business practices.


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## AC986 (Apr 16, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



Stephen Rees @ Wed Apr 16 said:


> I've been thinking about the word 'monetize' actually and changed my mind. It is a great new word. Instead of composing music for things in future, I'm going to 'musicize' them.



I'm going to downsize them. Downsize. What does it really mean? I don't know but I like the idea of downsizing music.


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## Stephen Rees (Apr 16, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



adriancook @ Wed Apr 16 said:


> Stephen Rees @ Wed Apr 16 said:
> 
> 
> > I've been thinking about the word 'monetize' actually and changed my mind. It is a great new word. Instead of composing music for things in future, I'm going to 'musicize' them.
> ...



I think the editors will be responsible for the 'downsize' Adrian; actors can 'actorize'; cameramen can 'imagize'; lighting can 'brightenize'; composers 'musicize'; wardrobe can 'apparelize'..... and I really should stop now.


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## Markus S (Apr 17, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



Martin K @ Wed Apr 16 said:


> Congratulations man. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity. Please think about the rest of us once in a while when you now step into the realm of awesomeness. I'll keep checking my inbox for a similar deal, but I can only hope...



Guys, please keep in mind that all of this is still highly confidential.


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## Markus S (Apr 17, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



Barrie B @ Wed Apr 16 said:


> Please put up details of the company so that we can email them - I'd certainly like to...
> 
> B



Trying to get that "likely" 20,00$ fee, are we? 

OK, seriously - really don't want to shame anyone in public, but thought it was worth sharing such an eloquently put rip-off deal.


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## Markus S (Apr 17, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



Jimbo 88 @ Wed Apr 16 said:


> You should let us know who this is so we can avoid their product/company at all cost.



Don't worry, you'll know them when you see them.


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## mr (Apr 17, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

Wow. So this seriously is for real?

Markus, if I may ask - who made the first contact? Are they "cold-emailing" musicians offering them amazing work opportunities?

Is there any way to drop a hint on who this company is?


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## Markus S (Apr 17, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *

Hey guys & girls - great replies from everyone! 

The situation for us composers is bad enough, so why not have a laugh about it from time to time! 

Actually, technically the deal is not legal in France either, since basically they want to sell my music (in whatever form it may be) without sharing the profit and/or paying an upfront fee.

but I'm afraid Inductance has a real point when saying, such stuiff is only possible because we as composers allow it.

So anyone out there looking to make a career or starting out : Someone offering this kind of deal - making money with your music without paying you (even if they make one dollar) - it's a no, plain and simple.


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## Markus S (Apr 17, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



mr @ Thu Apr 17 said:


> Wow. So this seriously is for real?
> 
> Markus, if I may ask - who made the first contact? Are they "cold-emailing" musicians offering them amazing work opportunities?
> 
> Is there any way to drop a hint on who this company is?



Yes, they contacted me first (see excerpt first email above) - my first post on the subject was their reply to my inquiry if they would make money with the use of my music (in some cases I allow the use for non-commercial purposes, if I maintain the rights to do so).

No, sorry, don't want to name that company. Besides the corporate talk, it's small fish, however the attitude seems to be around a lot (in other forms) destroying the market slowly.


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## mr (Apr 17, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



Markus S @ Thu Apr 17 said:


> Yes, they contacted me first (see excerpt first email above) - my first post on the subject was their reply to my inquiry if they would make money with the use of my music (in some cases I allow the use of my music for non-commercial uses, if I maintain the rights to do so).
> 
> No, sorry, don't want to name that company. Besides the corporate talk, it's small fish, however the attitude seems to be around a lot (in other forms) destroying the market slowly.



Thanks for your response, sorry, I overlooked the excerpt. 

I wonder who those "1000s of musicians" are, I don't know any of them


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## Barrie B (Apr 17, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



Markus S @ Thu Apr 17 said:


> Barrie B @ Wed Apr 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Please put up details of the company so that we can email them - I'd certainly like to...
> ...



I was only going to shame them in private! :D 

B


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## AC986 (Apr 17, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



Barrie B @ Thu Apr 17 said:


> Markus S @ Thu Apr 17 said:
> 
> 
> > Barrie B @ Wed Apr 16 said:
> ...



Do it in public. Go on go on go on! You know you want to. We all want you to.


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## Barrie B (Apr 17, 2014)

*Re: The final reason we do not compensate financially for the use of music.. *



adriancook @ Thu Apr 17 said:


> Barrie B @ Thu Apr 17 said:
> 
> 
> > Markus S @ Thu Apr 17 said:
> ...




When Markus stops being so shy about who these people are..... I think he's actually after the gig himself..

B


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