# A year later VI vs NS



## Craig Sharmat (Aug 2, 2005)

Well next week will mark the inception of VI. The first real loggers started in the middle of august 2004.

A few thoughts--- VI-pro which actually has members participating and spending hard earned cash on a yet to be library tells me this forum is rocking hard, while NS has to be taking a hit bsides the Garritan crew. NS can claim numbers of members, but participation appears to be stronger in many areas on VI.


I decided to run an experiment this week. I was fairly happy with a piece I wrote and decieded to run it on the main forum board at NS and the not often used EIS forum (I justified posting on EIS as I used some EIS on it). If Joanne had not saved the thread on NS once it sank to the 2nd page it would have died with 2 responses. As of now it appears to have ended with 7, 2 being mine. My average piece on NS in the old days garnered in the 25-30 range with writer participation. The post at EIS at this point is around 17 responses and could go higher. I sensed this was going to happen though I am actually surprised that this many people even look at the EIS forum.


This may already be obvious to many but it really is driving this point home on me. VI is so much more happening now than NS, and in less than a year. I remember, I think Tob posting, that this forum reminds him of the old days on NS. Those were exicting times and we all looked forward to TJ's, Simon, Marsdy's etc next pieces, and Chris Beck, Danny Lux, Rob Kral were regular posters, but this forum in my eyes has way surpassed old NS in many ways, in that it is actually involved in the creating of samples. It has pushed the envelope on sample community forums and become a participant. We may look back fondly on the early years of VI, but make no mistake....these are the good ole days.

JMHO


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## José Herring (Aug 2, 2005)

Yeah I agree whole heartedly.

Tobias put up a link to the inception of his guitar library. It dates back on the NS forum to about 3 years ago. I was suprised to find out that most of the posters had been banned. It read like a who's who of talented outspoken composers who got the boot.

The posters on NS seem to be more interested in debating the latest popular pills rather than talking music.

Here on the other hand is slamming. Some of the best mockups and compositions are on this board and I've learned heaps on how to program and mix with VI's. This place is remarkable.

I feel very responsible for this place. I really only let pro's and talented hobbyist know about this place. I think I'll stick to that policy when inviting new members to join. I hope others do the same.

We have all the moderators to thank for the rapid rise of this place. And Frederick for sticking to his high ethical code in administering this place. It makes me feel more responsible for mending my own disagreements with people and not letting it get out of hand.

This forum is a rare achievement and I think it's up to us all to keep it that way for the years to come.

Cheers,

Jose


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## choc0thrax (Aug 2, 2005)

It's easy to see that the main action on NS is in the Garritan forum, possibly due to the well oiled styxx posting machine that runs 24/7. The threads there are mostly very boring. Threads about piano's and threads about piano's too. Trying to find an interesting thread there now is like trying to find those mini Rolo pieces in Rolo icecream. NS has been around for over 6 years and it will be interesting to see if this place is all corrupt and destroyed in 5 years from now.


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## José Herring (Aug 2, 2005)

Have faith in our leader Frederick, Chococrunch. He's the kind of guy that sticks to his guns. We need to support that.

Jose


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## Patrick de Caumette (Aug 2, 2005)

One year already...

Man, time flies.

There is no doubt in my mind that VI is the clear winner when it comes to talent and competence. And yes, we put our money where our mouths where and got Vi-Pro going.

Very exciting indeed!

Here's to Frederick (I am missing Ned's emoticon with the dude and the beer...)

_Ned jumps in..._ Here you go, Pat! (editing someone else's post is the biggest thrill after lifetime banning... :twisted: ):


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## Aaron Sapp (Aug 2, 2005)

Agreed Craig. NS used to be quite the happening place, but now...:( The moderators there claim that they are indeed being fair and running a kosher place, but there've been too many instances where they've realllly disappointed. A shame really. Had I not stumbled on NS, I wouldn't have the great friendships I have now, or gotten my first paying gig, and probably wouldn't have discovered sample libraries. 8) Now though, if you have an opinion, it had better be one they gave you. *drum hit* 

But hey, V.I - one year - lots of members, great conversation, and an unusually patient/fair/diplomatic moderator. Oh yea, and don't forget the $XX,XXX project we've managed to conjure up ourselves in a relatively short amount of time.  *Statement-balance:* But don't count your baby-ostriches quite yet! Or maybe thats just me...

Gawd I'm tired. Coffee time.


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## ComposerDude (Aug 2, 2005)

Frederick's compassionate moderation style is the key -- it lets us hear honest opinions from members without threat of imminent banning. I think it is that "desire for clarity" that attracts great members, and they reinforce the coolness of the site just as Sharmy said, with all their great posts, techniques (like TKT) and demos. So thank you, Frederick, and everyone else too, for making this a great forum!

-Peter


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## mnemonic (Aug 2, 2005)

What's everyone bringing to the Team Building weekend retreat then? Dibs on the potato salad. :wink:


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## lux (Aug 2, 2005)

I agree as you know Craig, although I wouldnt have used replies to a piece of mine as a parameter of a forum activity  .

About the old nice guys well, they are not so postful here too, so maybe they are just busy, or there are just lot more people in the street now.

Luca


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 2, 2005)

all we need now are V.I t-shirts..seriously :D


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## Niah (Aug 2, 2005)

I was lucky enough to find this forum right from the start and right about the time that I was starting to use vst's and sample libs in my work.

Since the very begining that I was under the impression that this was a forum with very professional musicians on board but at the same time willing to share and help noobies with their skills and knowledge. Something not easily found on other forums.

I registered on NS later after hearing a lot contorversy here, at first I didn't noticed anything out of the norm, but then things started to fall in to place and now I can see a huge difference from this forum and NS. 
Watching the posts there right now is kind of surreal, it's like watching the news and trying to look for the real facts.

Fred and the mods have been doing a tremendous job in keeping the forum free and open to everyone else's opinion. 

One year after I feel that I owe this forum and its people everything for helping me creating the music that I have always ambitioned.


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## choc0thrax (Aug 2, 2005)

Did anyone watch tonights group buy thread get deleted? I think it took an hour to vanish but it was fun while it lasted.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 2, 2005)

I came into NS a bit late in the game, just as many of the regulars with independent minds were starting to get banned. Still, I enjoyed it for a few years. Now, I still visit to read a bit, but I will never post again, as I don't want to contribute to NS in any way anymore.

I really love this place. The talent and experience of many members here blows my mind, and even makes me jealous regularly :oops: :lol: ! I like the colour scheme, as it makes reading very easy. And of course, I love choc0 and his _unique_ sense of humour. 

V.I. has grown fast, but well, and the base is strong enough that I don't think anyone could get away with bullsh*t for any extended length of time (especially Mods). Let's keep it that way!

PS: My wife and I will be in the Finger Lakes region for a week starting this Thurs. Everyone is invited for a glass of Canadian bacon juice.


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## Alex W (Aug 2, 2005)

VI's awesome; and by awesome, I mean totally sweet.


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## Thonex (Aug 2, 2005)

well... I'm new around here, and never really likes NS that much... maybe I never gave it a chance, but I felt like I didn't belong.

However, I really like this place and find there's a great vibe amongst the members. I also like that there is such a dedication to orchestral writing... it's refreshing. Sometimes I feel this whole industry is going down the toilet with acidized grooves and no content... but this place proves me wrong.

Also, everyone here just seems like a genuinely nice person. I hope it never changes... except for the better.. which would be hard to do.

T


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## rJames (Aug 2, 2005)

While the small number of responses to one of Craig's posts at NS may or may not be indicative of the longevity of that site, we can be assured that VI is the place for informative conversation.

As a student of orchestration (on-line at VI University), this place offers quality critique. Instead of one, "here's what you should think about next time" to ten, "that's really good" its ten thoughtful opinions to one, "attaboy".

OK, maybe I'm being a bit too serious here, but a tear is coming to my eye as I type this. (and my keyboard is getting all f**ked up)

For some reason, even people who didn't respond at NS seem to be very helpful over here.

I think that's due in part to Craig's attitude. He's always been helpful!

And Frederick has too. Always helpful even when he was at NS ('course he wanted to get everybody to come over here).

So, I will join you all and raise my glass in a toast, to VI... "the King is dead, long live the King."

:D I am serious (except for the teary part)


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## choc0thrax (Aug 2, 2005)

Woah for a second I thought I stumbled into the GPO forum.


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## jc5 (Aug 2, 2005)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> One year already...
> 
> 
> 
> _Ned jumps in..._ Here you go, Pat! (editing someone else's post is the biggest thrill after lifetime banning... :twisted: ):



I think this smilie should become a permanent part of the forum's emoticon library. :wink:


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## Scott Cairns (Aug 2, 2005)

jc5 said:


> Patrick de Caumette said:
> 
> 
> > One year already...
> ...



I think thats a crazy idea.


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 2, 2005)

where does everyone get these smileys!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: 


I want them :!:


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## Marsdy (Aug 3, 2005)

aaaaaaaaahhhh

Group hug everyone....

....No not you Houston.

It has to be a healthy forum when it's the developers that get banned.


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## IvanP (Aug 3, 2005)

I barely post anything on NS now... this forum has everything needed to me...lots of humor and a real place to learn... man we are even doing VI PRO!

Indeed these are the good days... let's make them last long


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## groove (Aug 3, 2005)

yeah big thank to Frederick and all the people here that make that forum so interesting !!

even from the other side of the Atlantic i can learn from all of you guys about orchestration, use of libs and great sense of humour, for shure this is were i start my day...

stephane


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## Waywyn (Aug 3, 2005)

i think it was the best which could happen to all the sample users, likers, composers etc when frederick had the idea to create this place.

you could just say it in a short way: here you find the truth if you want good criticism on your tracks, compositions or suggestions for anything.

it is a collaborating place and i am happy to be a part of it.

i can really remember when i visited NS first time and how anxious i was being inside the circle with my first sloppy wavefiles posting it on the forum, while some big guys and pros were walking around and i had to be careful to not get hit by the "big shoes"  ... and also i have to say that i would have never found all those guys and buddies without NS, but it is sad what became out of this place.
you hear words like "brilliant, awesome, really great" to compositions which are not even worth the bandwith uploaded to a server. it sounds kinda hard, but what i wanna say, is that nobody has the time to criticise or try to help somebody out.

how can it be that someone in the GPO section of NS is posting a composition with like 2 tracks with just a few notes and everyone is saying, "wow beaufitul, amazing piece of awesome orchestration"

... are those guys deaf or is it just "post collection" to raise the little number on your profile (i know i know i am talking about his everytime, but hey... this is what it's about on NS) It almost seems like a GPO mass demo production center and nobody seems to care about what each other is doing. So basically something like a chicken egg producing farm 

I am really happy that we have a place like this were you can speak freely, were people help and respect each other and growing together even more ...

thanks dudes


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## Trev Parks (Aug 3, 2005)

Yeah, this place is cool. I was glad that Peter Roos told me about it.

Here its more like a laid back pub atmosphere, whereas NS does feel to me a little like parents evening in a school hall with a load of billboards and a set of surveillence cameras surrounding you. I still think there are some interesting posts on NS but I don't check the posts daily anymore like I do here.


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## Jon Paouli Trapek (Aug 3, 2005)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Well next week will mark the inception of VI. The first real loggers started in the middle of august 2004.
> 
> A few thoughts--- VI-pro which actually has members participating and spending hard earned cash on a yet to be library tells me this forum is rocking hard, while NS has to be taking a hit bsides the Garritan crew. NS can claim numbers of members, but participation appears to be stronger in many areas on VI.
> 
> ...



Craig, I don't think your experiment can be taken too seriously. It could be that people didn't have so much time that day to listen, took more interest because it was composed with elements of EIS in mind thus stirring interest in that column more, or whatever. Loads more people post than they used to so its difficult keeping up with all the demos on a site let alone posting a critique. I don't get much of a chance and I totally missed your demo on NS, and you're one of the few people who's demos I try and make a point of listening to.

But VI is definitely a better forum for sample users now.


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## Waywyn (Aug 3, 2005)

well to be honest, of course craigs compare could not be taken too serious but at least what he tries to explain is true.

i also recognized that over the last months when posting stuff there that people either got bored from the work i do or were interested - really no problem, but on other forums they were,

... but i think the only thing concentrates to: "i did ....with gpo"

if you write something and post a piece made with gpo, then you have hundreds of posts, telling that your work is absolutely stunning and brilliant and marvellous etc ... no matter what you put together.

it is really sad, but this is how it is at the moment


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## Jon Paouli Trapek (Aug 3, 2005)

Waywyn said:


> ... but i think the only thing concentrates to: "i did ....with gpo"
> 
> if you write something and post a piece made with gpo, then you have hundreds of posts, telling that your work is absolutely stunning and brilliant and marvellous etc ... no matter what you put together.



Its because GPO has a very big amateur fanbase. A lot of people there aren't on the same plain as those who frequent here and they're not interested in the broader picture. They've invested in a small, average product and found those of an equally restricted like-mind who have done the same. "Let's make music....wayhay! Woo!". Its taken space from those with more ability. But its not really their fault. Amateur hill walkers don't always want to read about K2 climbers.

Don't get me wrong, I roll my eyes whenever I have to endure a "GPO has been voted number one by the Limited Mental Bandwidth Association" thread, 1/ because I know there are more deserving products and 2/ because I cannot stomach the endless "Gary, you deserve to have your image carved on Mount Rushmore" posts that follow. But, I don't think the problems with NS is entirely the fault of Gary and his band of loyal followers. The guy has made some good products and he knows his trade. And the people that use GPO are not generally power users.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Aug 3, 2005)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> One year already...
> 
> Man, time flies.
> 
> ...



:shock: :shock: :shock: 

It's happening here too!!!
1984 all over again. Moderators can invade your threads and manipulate the information that you thought was yours. 
My privacy has been trampled :cry: 


:D :D :wink: 

Thanks Ned 8)

ps: I like Scott's emoticon as well but somehow, Ned's seems to be more realistic :roll:


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## christianb (Aug 3, 2005)

Interesting thing is that this place was probably bolstered by the NS spies that put a damper on the old Midi-Mockup channel on irc. I remember the day quite clearly when we were all talking about coming over here and getting things going. A year later and it seems pretty well cemented huh.

And now for my gushing gpo forum type comments and thanks. (for your giggling enjoyment choco  ) Ned, you sent me over to NS where I had the good fortune to make friends with our resident EIS guru Sharms. Craig you have been a most positive force in my 'development' and it does not go un-appreciated bud. With you, LeonW, AaronS, Rjames, Luca, Ivan, Tob, TheoK, Marsdy, Herman, Sid, and of course Fred in my aim buddy list I know that I can be sufficiently torn apart on any given cue so as to hang my head in shame and go back to the drawing board to make it better. You guys... "complete me"....sorry... can't find the puking emoticon.


So, thanks Fred and thanks to all mentioned as well as those who I steal from every chance I get who are not in my ichat list. 

cb


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## Rob Elliott (Aug 3, 2005)

The level of professionalism and USEFUL advice here is wonderful. 2-3 years ago when I was first getting into to the use of samples, NS was the place, now I find the knowledge base and experience here without an equal. Many thanks to all those who continue to share their hard-earned talent and experience.

Rob


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## jc5 (Aug 3, 2005)

christianb said:


> You guys... "complete me"....sorry... can't find the puking emoticon.



Here you go:





I also feel this should become a permanent part of the forum's emoticon library. Infinitely useful when commenting on new sample libs and each others compositions. :wink: :lol: 

It would usually be followed by some of this of course:


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## Waywyn (Aug 3, 2005)

thats a puking smiley?

THAT'S a puking smiley ...


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## jc5 (Aug 3, 2005)

Waywyn said:


> thats a puking smiley?
> 
> THAT'S a puking smiley ...



You trying to dis my pukey smiley?





Hmm... that is a _much_ better puking smiley....
Time to skulk off in shame...





:wink:


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## Scott Rogers (Aug 3, 2005)

..........


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## José Herring (Aug 3, 2005)

christianb said:


> ...You guys... "complete me"....sorry... can't find the puking emoticon.....
> 
> cb



:cry: 

You had me at hello :cry: 

man this is gettin' to emotional for me.

Jose


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## Niah (Aug 3, 2005)

I LOVE HER OPRAH! i'M IN LOVE MAANNN!


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## Scott Cairns (Aug 3, 2005)

Look,



this place



is becoming



a smiley






fest. Its just not on.

I havent thanked Frederick either, this is a cool club, and that barman with the beard always playing the guitar isnt bad either  (dam, another smiley)


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## Frederick Russ (Aug 4, 2005)

Thanks guys. It's been said a lot before, but VI Control is all of us. The talent per capita and experience makes this a true resource of really helpful information - hey, I'm a member too! I love this forum - and you all - very much.  (where is that puking emoticon?)

VI's birthday is August 8. Long live VI.


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