# CHESS : The Ultimate Creative Flow State Enhancer



## Thomas Costantino (Jan 17, 2022)

Chess has been an incredible resource for developing a strategic mindset for business, as well as a tool to immediately induce creative flow states. Above all it helped me increase my capacity for patience and awareness. On top of that, the game is scientifically proven to raise your IQ. It’s been a very powerful tool throughout my Musical journey.

To get the Creative Flow going, I try to play live games in person a few days before I Compose. Then I play 30 minute timed games online every single day as part as a morning coffee ritual. This way I’m constantly stimulating the mind and feel fired up before jumping in the studio. 

I was wondering if there’s any fellow Chess Players in the community?

Have you applied Chess as a creative tool to get in the zone for Composing ?

What are your favorite openings, strategies and tactics ?

If you haven’t played the game before, I highly recommend getting into it. Many people are intimidated by the game, believing you have to think like 10 moves ahead. Although thats helpful, it’s a huge misconception. The beauty of chess is adopting the ability to access multiple strategies and play with a few ideas at a time. Even the best players in the World only think 1-3 moves ahead but also process multiple tactics on how to execute them.

I figured it would be cool start a conversation on the greatest game in the world and how we can apply it to becoming better Composers, Business Strategists, and overall better human beings 🚀

Often times I wonder what our society would be like if people were more into Chess and Film music, rather than football and pop culture. They happen to be my two passions but I also believe they could change the course of the human race if Chess and Film music were exposed to children at an elementary level.

I could go on for days about the philosophy behind the game and how it actually transformed different cultures throughout history... I’m down to talk Chess from any dynamic.


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## Braveheart (Jan 17, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> Chess has been an incredible resource for developing a strategic mindset for business, as well as a tool to immediately induce creative flow states. Above all it helped me increase my capacity for patience and awareness. On top of that, the game is scientifically proven to raise your IQ. It’s been a very powerful tool throughout my Musical journey.
> 
> To get the Creative Flow going, I try to play live games in person a few days before I Compose. Then I play 30 minute timed games online every single day as part as a morning coffee ritual. This way I’m constantly stimulating the mind and feel fired up before jumping in the studio.
> 
> ...


I try to apply the principle of being a King to composing, but I often end up a Jester instead.


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## cuttime (Jan 17, 2022)

I'm a chess player, albeit not a very good one. Often a game leads to frustration for me, rather than inspiration. It does seem to work for some, though. Stanley Kubrick was an avid chess player, and always had a board on set with him.



https://chess24.com/en/read/news/stanley-kubrick-and-chess


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## Drundfunk (Jan 17, 2022)

My father used to play chess tournaments and was a really good player. I never really got into the game. I tried as a child, but my father wasn't the best teacher or had the patience to teach me properly. So in the first game I played against him he checkmated me in a few moves. Never actually cared about the game then. A few years after my father's death I picked it up tho and I'm playing daily for the last two years. I'm more into chess puzzles tho. I like playing games once in a while, but I'm not really a fan of learning chess openings. The game would lose a lot of it's charm to me, since for the first few moves it's just about pattern recognition and applying the best "proper" moves to counter an opponent's opening moves. I rather play whatever and then puzzle my way out of it. It's definitely fun. My brother who plays the game for a lot longer than I do always says, if I would learn the chess openings I'd be a really good player. I still beat him once in a while. Not sure if it helps me with composing, but it's definitely a good way to stay mentally fit. I'm also into football tho .


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 17, 2022)

Awesome.. I’ll look into that ! 

What’s the most frustrating part for you ? My biggest challenge was learning how to defend against common openings and disabling knight attacks.

I’ll admit I’ve had phases where I was so frustrated that I thought I’d never play again lol. But with anything, it takes a bit of dedication. I felt it was worth the time. Chess and Composing did make me quite the loner though.


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 17, 2022)

Drundfunk said:


> My father used to play chess tournaments and was a really good player. I never really got into the game. I tried as a child, but my father wasn't the best teacher or had the patience to teach me properly. So in the first game I played against him he checkmated me in a few moves. Never actually cared about the game then. A few years after my father's death I picked it up tho and I'm playing daily for the last two years. I'm more into chess puzzles tho. I like playing games once in a while, but I'm not really a fan of learning chess openings. The game would lose a lot of it's charm to me, since for the first few moves it's just about pattern recognition and applying the best "proper" moves to counter an opponent's opening moves. I rather play whatever and then puzzle my way out of it. It's definitely fun. My brother who plays the game for a lot longer than I do always says, if I would learn the chess openings I'd be a really good player. I still beat him once in a while. Not sure if it helps me with composing, but it's definitely a good way to stay mentally fit. I'm also into football tho .


Ya know it’s funny- the old school way of “ teaching chess “ was sitting your son down and kicking his ass. Same here lol... Certainly not the best approach.

I started teaching my nephew at the age of 7. Basically made up stories about the pieces and tries to bring some excitement to it. I found it best to play at a beginner level to help him start thinking with a chess mentality, rather than I’m gonna woop him 30 times in a row so he’ll become amused by the skill and want to get better. Just doesn’t work with kids these days and their short attentions span with regular gaming.

I feel you on the game losing charm in the openings. Its a drag. Every single
Match I’m just waiting for the Mid Game. That where all the magic happens. Once you get down a good opening defense, the beginning will only last like two or three minutes and get right to the good stuff.

The upmost best lesson I learned for any opening is to move each end pawn up one space. That shuts down a lot of attacks! As well as leave an escape route for the King in End Game.

I try to shoot for any move that has two functions.

Play some chess during a foozball game. That should be a great workout for the noggin. 😆


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## cuttime (Jan 17, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> Awesome.. I’ll look into that !
> 
> What’s the most frustrating part for you ? My biggest challenge was learning how to defend against common openings and disabling knight attacks.
> 
> I’ll admit I’ve had phases where I was so frustrated that I thought I’d never play again lol. But with anything, it takes a bit of dedication. I felt it was worth the time. Chess and Composing did make me quite the loner though.


I play what i'm sure is an awesome game, only to be undone by a blindingly stupid mistake.


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## Ben E (Jan 17, 2022)

I've been a chess player since I was a kid. Tournament player in the 80s. e4 player as white, e5 against e4 as black, e6 against d4 as black. Online I only play 3 minute games -- which doesn't help my creativity as a composer. In fact I usually find myself cursing, at myself. I follow chess the way some people follow football. I've attended the World Championship once (Carlsen v Karjakin) the Sinquefield Cup and keep up with the high-end tournaments through chess websites. I've no idea what my play rating is but I hover around 2200 in the rated puzzles on chess.com. I would like to play over-the-board but none of my friends play chess.

I do notice that on some days my intuitions are dead on and on other days, for no apparent reason, I can't play my way out of a wet paper bag. I'v tried to correlate this with various things like mood, diet, sleep, relationship tension...but nothing sticks. It seems random. A little bit like music inspiration.


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 17, 2022)

cuttime said:


> I play what i'm sure is an awesome game, only to be undone by a blindingly stupid mistake.


The most powerful life lesson the game has to offer !


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 17, 2022)

Ben E said:


> I've been a chess player since I was a kid. Tournament player in the 80s. e4 player as white, e5 against e4 as black, e6 against d4 as black. Online I only play 3 minute games -- which doesn't help my creativity as a composer. In fact I usually find myself cursing, at myself. I follow chess the way some people follow football. I've attended the World Championship once (Carlsen v Karjakin) the Sinquefield Cup and keep up with the high-end tournaments through chess websites. I've no idea what my play rating is but I hover around 2200 in the rated puzzles on chess.com. I would like to play over-the-board but none of my friends play chess.
> 
> I do notice that on some days my intuitions are dead on and on other days, for no apparent reason, I can't play my way out of a wet paper bag. I'v tried to correlate this with various things like mood, diet, sleep, relationship tension...but nothing sticks. It seems random. A little bit like music inspiration.


Ahh man I’d love to get into tournament play! Live chess is a total different ball game than online. And yikes 3 minute games. Your nuts dude.

I feel like Blitz matches are a giant scramble and take away from the nuance of the game. But that could also be because I suck at them lol.

That’s cool your into Chess like a sport. And amazing to see Carlson live ! They need to change the structure up to make it more interesting to ESPN fans. They could start by actually paying them some big time money. Then people would start to take interest and maybe aspire to be a Chess Master like kids trying to go pro in any other sport. Unlikely, but there’s a chance. And it makes for one wild journey along the way.

My Art teacher in high school was an incredible player. He also coached the Chess Club. I did’nt like drawing or sculpture art very much and was a low key disruptive class clown. Instead of kicking me out of class He struck a deal: he busted out a chess board and said I’ll teach the class and make a move in between every sentence. You show up every day, shut up and just play. I agreed. That whole semester was a Chess bootcamp. Got my ass beat hundreds of times. Eventually I started giving him decent matches. If they were long and went into the afternoon he would call me out of all other classes till we finished.

He said there was Club potential and asked me to join. At the time I was stupid enough to think Chess Club was for geeks and lame. Also was on the Basketball team and it would conflict. Here I am an Audio geek that loves Chess and can barely hoop anymore. My biggest regret in high school was not quitting basketball for Chess.


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## SergeD (Jan 17, 2022)

Like Ben E, I played for a while in the 80s, also against a Russian, Kaspatov or Kaspachov, don't remember exactly, a very good player, took me a lot to win all five games, he had potential to become a top for sure, never seen him again...

Ha Ha! More seriously, here is a very nice place to take a rest without spending to much time:








ChessPuzzle.net


Improve your chess by solving chess puzzles on ChessPuzzle.net. Free chess tactics training online.




chesspuzzle.net


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 17, 2022)

SergeD said:


> Like Ben E, I played for a while in the 80s, also against a Russian, Kaspatov or Kaspachov, don't remember exactly, a very good player, took me a lot to win all five games, he had potential to become a top for sure, never seen him again...
> 
> Ha Ha! More seriously, here is a very nice place to take a rest without spending to much time:
> 
> ...


Woza .. we have some Tournament talent in the building ! 

I’m on Chess.com 
MagnusStark 

If anyone wants to give me a beating 😆


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## cuttime (Jan 17, 2022)




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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 17, 2022)

cuttime said:


>



That was delightful. Thank you for sharing this. What a unique way to explain the mysterious beggings of this game.

As the true history of Chess is a bit fuzzy, I recall reading that within the Persian Empire gambling with dice, cards, and back alley sport got so out of control that the Empires Monterrey system was being shattered. The gambling created its own untaxed system of payment in any form players agreed upon: barter, jewels and coin, livestock, servants- you name it. In a sense a new economy outside the Empire was growing at a rapid rate.

To handle the situation, the royal court decided to introduce Chess as a cultural game that was played for honor instead of money. As higher society quickly adopted this, skilled players would be rewarded with Land, coin minted by the Empire and respect from the Court. This trickled down into the lower classes, as people would rather play Chess to be respected and possibly earn a chance to become Master of their own Estate; hence the term Chess Master.


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## cuttime (Jan 17, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> That was delightful. Thank you for sharing this. What a unique way to explain the mysterious beggings of this game.
> 
> As the true history of Chess is a bit fuzzy, I recall reading that within the Persian Empire gambling with dice, cards, and back alley sport got so out of control that the Empires Monterrey system was being shattered. The gambling created its own untaxed system of payment in any form players agreed upon: barter, jewels and coin, livestock, servants- you name it. In a sense a new economy outside the Empire was growing at a rapid rate.
> 
> To handle the situation, the royal court decided to introduce Chess as a cultural game that was played for honor instead of money. As higher society quickly adopted this, skilled players would be rewarded with Land, coined minted by the Empire and respect from the Court. This trickled down into the lower classes, as people would rather play Chess to be respected and possibly earn a chance to become Master of their own Estate; hence the term Chess Master.


Glad you enjoyed it. I can't count how many times I've had to apologize about "Tim Rice and the Guys from ABBA", and not be taken seriously.


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## cqd (Jan 17, 2022)

Chess is good, but..


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 17, 2022)

I'm a big chess fan, constantly doing chess puzzles, the greatest game ever invented. 

I had written a piece describing a chess game about 10 years ago. Listening to it again, I wouldn't of mind a shot at re-mixing it, but was done with the resources and experience of the time.

The Chess Game


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 17, 2022)

cqd said:


> Chess is good, but..


Man oh man.. I’ve heard so much about this game but never dabbles. Supposedly predates Chess by hunters of years. Chinese origin ?


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 17, 2022)

Guy Bacos said:


> I'm a big chess fan, constantly doing chess puzzles, the greatest game ever invented.
> 
> I had written a piece describing a chess game about 10 years ago. Listening to it again, I wouldn't of mind a shot at re-mixing it, but was done with the resources and experience of the time.
> 
> The Chess Game


Awesome .. ha that tension 2 minutes in is the perfect soundtrack to what goes on in the mind during a tense match. The game is too perfect. Just like Composing, you never stop getting better. Just acquiring more skills and experience with every match.


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## cqd (Jan 17, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> Man oh man.. I’ve heard so much about this game but never dabbles. Supposedly predates Chess by hunters of years. Chinese origin ?


Yeah, the oldest game in the world..There's recorded games from 1500 years ago..
There were China wide tournaments 500 years before Jesus lived..
The most simple, most complex, most subtle game..
It just kinda develops from nothing into a piece of art..
It truly is a thing of beauty..
Kinda like playing 5 interconnected games of chess..
As you get better it just gets deeper..


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 17, 2022)

cqd said:


> Yeah, the oldest game in the world..There's recorded games from 1500 years ago..
> There were China wide tournaments 500 years before Jesus lived..
> The most simple, most complex, most subtle game..
> It just kinda develops from nothing into a piece of art..
> ...


“ 5 interconnected chess games “... That’s a wild way of explaining. Truly sparks my interest. Friend of mine got a 4 Player chess board. Looking forward to giving that a go.

Honestly, studying games like these are worth more than an entire high school education. As soon as they’re 14, hand the kids a Chess board, a guitar, a punching bag and a shovel. Dig, play, punch. They’ll be better humans 😂


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## cqd (Jan 17, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> “ 5 interconnected chess games “... That’s a wild way of explaining. Truly sparks my interest. Friend of mine got a 4 Player chess board. Looking forward to giving that a go.
> 
> Honestly, studying games like these are worth more than an entire high school education. As soon as they’re 14, hand the kids a Chess board, a guitar, a punching bag and a shovel. Dig, play, punch. They’ll be better humans 😂


What I mean by that is each corner of the board would be about as, well would be like a game of chess..

Chess is a battle..Go is a war..


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 17, 2022)

cqd said:


> Chess is a battle..Go is a war..


🤯... That’s a serious accusation my friend. All the more intrigued !


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## YahmezTV (Jan 17, 2022)

I used to enjoy chess as a kid, but I stopped playing in my teens. Then like 3 years ago, my little brother (age 13), said he was beating all the other kids in school and told me he would crush me. I was like omg let’s go…and the little shit beat me.
So I started booking up so I could crush a 13 year old lol. 

Whenever we get together we always play a few games. I’m proud to say, after a couple years of study, I can consistently wipe the floor with a teenager who’s never studied chess lol. That said, I don’t just demolish him every time. We have way more fun when I play suspicious chess, than when I just squeeze him the whole game. I think a great chess teacher is someone who punishes your mistakes but also gives you chances to win; plays challenging moves that make threats, but leave themselves worse if you find the correct refutation. I’ve heard of people losing interest like this and I e thought about this, for when I have kids some day. I don’t want to discourage them.

My first year rediscovering chess, I played a lot of fast chess. 
Wanted to see as many openings as possible and follow my instincts, and learn from mistakes. 

Then last year I played mostly slow chess; 24 or 48 hour moves. I find this the best for improving my game, even my fast chess (which ironically, has the opposite effect on my game).

I usually have a couple daily games going with friends online. YahmezTV on chesscom if anyone wants a game. 
I’m still not very good, you will crush me. 

Lately I’ve been playing 5min and my gameplay really goes down the toilet when I play fast chess lol Fast chess is like crack.


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## cqd (Jan 17, 2022)

I've never actually studied chess to get better at all..I don't know any openings or anything, but I'd be reasonably ok,..I've considered giving it maybe a few months of proper effort..


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 17, 2022)

YahmezTV said:


> I used to enjoy chess as a kid, but I stopped playing in my teens. Then like 3 years ago, my little brother (age 13), said he was beating all the other kids in school and told me he would crush me. I was like omg let’s go…and the little shit beat me.
> So I started booking up so I could crush a 13 year old lol.
> 
> Whenever we get together we always play a few games. I’m proud to say, after a couple years of study, I can consistently wipe the floor with a teenager who’s never studied chess lol. That said, I don’t just demolish him every time. We have way more fun when I play suspicious chess, than when I just squeeze him the whole game. I think a great chess teacher is someone who punishes your mistakes but also gives you chances to win; plays challenging moves that make threats, but leave themselves worse if you find the correct refutation. I’ve heard of people losing interest like this and I e thought about this, for when I have kids some day. I don’t want to discourage them.
> ...


I agree that people certainly loose interest because whoever is teaching them tries to crush them. I mean, apply that to any other sport or game. Anybody would call it quits... What you said about good teachers is soo true. When I teach the game I’ll always keep it moving at their pace: point out threats that may not be so obvious, take back a few moves here and there, and actually make bad moves just to set interesting scenarios for them to solve. Anything to get their mind thinking like a Chess Player. 

As long as people are engaged in a ‘ close match ‘ they get to truly feel the thrill of Chess. It also makes them feel confident even if they lose. Every now and again my 10 year old nephew will pull a fast one on me ... Nothing better than seeing his eyes light up on a cross-board snipe. 

I’m with you on regular. Chess. Timed Mathew, especially blitz, seem more like brain exercises. You can also develop very poor habits. The one thing it’s great for is to test your instincts. But at the end or the day your playing the clock more than your opponent. 

Classic Chess is just the real deal.


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## Mikro93 (Jan 18, 2022)

I'm into chess too! Although I don't play much. I watch YouTube videos and follow tournaments, I do a few puzzles, I try to get into the theory of it all, but not easy 

I enjoy it thoroughly, though!


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## Uncle Peter (Jan 18, 2022)

I watched the Queen's Gambit and I became addicted again. I used to be an ok player as a kid, school champ, local u14 champion. Then I turned to guitar.... Nowadays I get whooped by 10 year olds online - still enjoy it though. I watch some of Carlsen's banter blitz videos - where he's talking through his move selection as he plays. Quite an eye opener - stunning knowledge of the game as you'd expect.


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## IgneousOne (Jan 18, 2022)

I play chess to keep the old noggin working. I've played for years but haven't improved - in fact I've got worse ! I see it like playing an instrument, unless you actively try to improve and learn new things, you can fall into old habits and don't progress.


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## Vik (Jan 18, 2022)

IgneousOne said:


> I play chess to keep the old moggin working. I've played for years but haven't improved - in fact I've got worse ! I see it like playing an instrument, unless you actively try to improve and learn new things, you can fall into old habits and don't progress.


Maybe us mediocre chess players have more fun than those who spend years on studying other games, opening strategies and so on. The negative side effect of becoming really good, I guess, is that you'd encounter a lot of great players when playing online, meaning that the effort it takes to improve (enough) easily could take up way too much time. 

I enjoy playing chess with other mediocre players, and not only don't have time to – or interest in – learning how to become a better chess player... I guess I'm not interested enough in chess to become one of those who spend 30+ minutes to figure out what my next move will be.


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## cqd (Jan 18, 2022)

Ok..
I've decided to start playing a bit of chess online..
What site/server would people recommend?..


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 18, 2022)

cqd said:


> I've never actually studied chess to get better at all..I don't know any openings or anything, but I'd be reasonably ok,..I've considered giving it maybe a few months of proper effort..


Go for it ! Those few months of learning to defend openings will set you up for a lifetime of great Chess Matches. The best thing you can do is watch re-enacted Grandmaster Games on YouTube. You’ll see how and why they do what they do in the first 10 moves.

The best advice I can give ( from my limited perspective ) is to always have a strong pawn in the center, advance the nights before bishops, and always move your two end pawns up one space very early ( they will stop knight attacks and give your King an escape route after castling ).

A great Grandmaster said “ Play the Opening line a book, Mid Game like a Wizard, and Endgame like a machine.”


Mikro93 said:


> I'm into chess too! Although I don't play much. I watch YouTube videos and follow tournaments, I do a few puzzles, I try to get into the theory of it all, but not easy
> 
> I enjoy it thoroughly, though


Yes the theory of openings, endgame, and setting mid game traps seems endless. Between music and day to day life, it’s a lot to squeeze in. But there’s nothing like the moments that you find information that totally changed your entire game. Good luck on the journey.


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 18, 2022)

cqd said:


> Ok..
> I've decided to start playing a bit of chess online..
> What site/server would people recommend?..


Chess.com all day ! It’s the most smooth interface, has great learning/puzzle tools and the connection always seems to work well, even with a low cell signal. And has a ton if users at all levels.

I’d stay clear of short timed games till you get the basics down. The best if your starting out is to play 30 minute games and then also have 3 or 4 daily games going ( which give you plenty of time to think things through ). The 30 minute games are great to really zone in on the true flow of chess.

And don’t stress so much on your ranking. The best thing you can do to get really good is find a friend and play live games together. If your both starting out the matches will always be fun and you’ll grow just by playing each other. Then when your comfortable seek to find a person that’s levels above both of you. You learn the most from live game losses. A mini social chess group is a blast and the best way to get rock solid.


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 18, 2022)

Uncle Peter said:


> I watched the Queen's Gambit and I became addicted again. I used to be an ok player as a kid, school champ, local u14 champion. Then I turned to guitar.... Nowadays I get whooped by 10 year olds online - still enjoy it though. I watch some of Carlsen's banter blitz videos - where he's talking through his move selection as he plays. Quite an eye opener - stunning knowledge of the game as you'd expect.


That guy is out of this world. Would love to have seen him play a guy like Bobby Fischer or Mikail Tal ! Bobby was a straight machine and Tal was like Wizard, making the craziest sacrifice plays of all time. I feel like a lot of this generation plays ‘ safe ‘ games that always end up in an even endgame match. Although I must get back into following it more closely. Haven’t in a couple years. This thread has me fired up on it again.


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## cqd (Jan 18, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> Chess.com all day ! It’s the most smooth interface, has great learning/puzzle tools and the connection always seems to work well, even with a low cell signal. And has a ton if users at all levels.
> 
> I’d stay clear of short timed games till you get the basics down. The best if your starting out is to play 30 minute games and then also have 3 or 4 daily games going ( which give you plenty of time to think things through ). The 30 minute games are great to really zone in on the true flow of chess.
> 
> And don’t stress so much on your ranking. The best thing you can do to get really good is find a friend and play live games together. If your both starting out the matches will always be fun and you’ll grow just by playing each other. Then when your comfortable seek to find a person that’s levels above both of you. You learn the most from live game losses. A mini social chess group is a blast and the best way to get rock solid.


Ah no, I'd be a reasonably strong? middle of the road player..
Just never studied it, or played timed or anything..
Chess.com it is so..


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 18, 2022)

cqd said:


> Ah no, I'd be a reasonably strong? middle of the road player..
> Just never studied it, or played timed or anything..
> Chess.com it is so..


Ohh I assumed you were starting out .. I’m basically at the same level. 

Yea it’s a solid app. Tried a few others and they seem glitchy compared to this one. 

Hit me up for a match anytime :

MagnusStark


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## bbunker (Jan 18, 2022)

Hi, Thomas - any particular times you tend to be available for blitz or rapid? I'm mostly on in the afternoon to evening when I'm doing other things that keep me from musically productive pursuits - it'd be fun to get a match in some time.

I wonder if there are enough players here to start a club?


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 18, 2022)

cqd said:


> Chess is good, but..


I recall seeing a documentary on this a few years ago. A clever team had developed a computer programme capable of challenging the world's greatest players; this was a first. They began by conducting tests on a national level, which the computer easily won, and then progressed to the all-time greatest player of this game, who was certain the machine could never beat him. They played five matches, with the computer winning 4 and losing 1.


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 18, 2022)

bbunker said:


> Hi, Thomas - any particular times you tend to be available for blitz or rapid? I'm mostly on in the afternoon to evening when I'm doing other things that keep me from musically productive pursuits - it'd be fun to get a match in some time.
> 
> I wonder if there are enough players here to start a club?


Early afternoon and mid evening for me as well. I love the idea of staring a club of Composers ! It would be very inspiring to play pre or post music sessions.

I had a great live club going a year and half ago before our meeting spot got shutdown. Man do I miss it. We turned a hole in the wall bar into a Chess club twice per week. Set up lamps at every table, arranged a Chess Night wine special with the lovely serving staff. Played some smooth lo-fi Emancipator music. It was something else. The place went from heavy metal grunge crowd one night, to a cultured Chess lounge the next night. 

Actually it was wild to see different sides of people. At first it was usual bar talk and people just getting hammered. Then when I busted a board out and discovered at least 5 people wanted to play, the club grew into 22 people ! People were showing up in town just to watch and have a drink in a more chill atmosphere. On Chess nights the conversations took a completely different turn. People talking philosophy, history and reminiscing on when they first learned the game. It naturally brought out a different persona- like a layer of themselves they wouldn’t feel comfortable sharing in a regular bar scene. Don’t get me wrong, there’s was a fair share of arguments. We had have a ref during the big matchups lol.. Very interesting. 

So yea I’m down for an online one. I believe I have a nice tournament template still setup in the computer.


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 18, 2022)

Guy Bacos said:


> I recall seeing a documentary on this a few years ago. A clever team had developed a computer programme capable of challenging the world's greatest players; this was a first. They began by conducting tests on a national level, which the computer easily won, and then progressed to the all-time greatest player of this game, who was certain the machine could never beat him. They played five matches, with the computer winning 4 and losing 1.


The Chess AI conversation is a fascinating one. On one hand you have a machine that abides by rules and never makes a mathematical mistake based on point value of the pieces. On the other hand, you have a person that commits human error, yet has an edge on making creative sacrifice plays that the computer would never make. Another constant to take into consideration is that if AI is actually backed in the corner, it will play with intent to draw the game more often than a human- who is constantly going for a win over a draw. I’d imagine most of the computer wins are ‘safe games’ whereas the human wins are wild risk taking sacrifices.

A lot of trouble could have been saved if the Skynet Machines agreed to challenge John Connor to a game of Chess for world domination.

Constant time traveling war, or 4:1 odds on the Chess board ?

And Rhode Island is neither a road or an Island. Discuss amongst the group ...


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 18, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> Early afternoon and mid evening for me as well. I love the idea of staring a club of Composers ! It would be very inspiring to play pre or post music sessions.
> 
> I had a great live club going a year and half ago before our meeting spot got shutdown. Man do I miss it. We turned a hole in the wall bar into a Chess club twice per week. Set up lamps at every table, arranged a Chess Night wine special with the lovely serving staff. Played some smooth lo-fi Emancipator music. It was something else. The place went from heavy metal grunge crowd one night, to a cultured Chess lounge the next night.
> 
> ...


If this thread gets more action and you know of any players on the forum that are game, I’ll look into staring an online Club.


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## Ben E (Jan 18, 2022)

Guy Bacos said:


> I recall seeing a documentary on this a few years ago. A clever team had developed a computer programme capable of challenging the world's greatest players; this was a first. They began by conducting tests on a national level, which the computer easily won, and then progressed to the all-time greatest player of this game, who was certain the machine could never beat him. They played five matches, with the computer winning 4 and losing 1.


I'll have to find that documentary. I love stories like that.
A great chess AI book is Behind Deep Blue (Hsu, 2002) about the computer that beat Gary Kasparov. But my all time favorite is One Jump Ahead (Schaeffer, 1997) about the computer that solved checkers (draughts.) The book introduces you to Marion Tinsley, the mathematician/missionary who is the undisputed best checker player in history -- in fact maybe the best at his "thing" than anybody, ever. He played professionally most of his life and only lost 5 games of checkers from 1950-1995 (against human players) and 2 games against the computer that this book is about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Tinsley


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## cqd (Jan 18, 2022)

Ben E said:


> I'll have to find that documentary. I love stories like that.
> A great chess AI book is Behind Deep Blue (Hsu, 2002) about the computer that beat Gary Kasparov. But my all time favorite is One Jump Ahead (Schaeffer, 1997) about the computer that solved checkers (draughts.) The book introduces you to Marion Tinsley, the mathematician/missionary who is the undisputed best checker player in history -- in fact maybe the best at his "thing" than anybody, ever. He played professionally most of his life and only lost 5 games of checkers from 1950-1995 (against human players) and 2 games against the computer that this book is about.



Alphago
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6700846/

there's also the surrounding game..(just about go..)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3973724/


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 18, 2022)

Ben E said:


> I'll have to find that documentary. I love stories like that.
> A great chess AI book is Behind Deep Blue (Hsu, 2002) about the computer that beat Gary Kasparov. But my all time favorite is One Jump Ahead (Schaeffer, 1997) about the computer that solved checkers (draughts.) The book introduces you to Marion Tinsley, the mathematician/missionary who is the undisputed best checker player in history -- in fact maybe the best at his "thing" than anybody, ever. He played professionally most of his life and only lost 5 games of checkers from 1950-1995 (against human players) and 2 games against the computer that this book is about.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Tinsley


Huge fan of film and documentaries like these. I’ll certainly dive in !

There’s needs to me more Chess films. Queens Gambit was phenomenal and truly showed that the world is still fascinated by the game. Finding Bobby Fischer was also solid. I remember in the intro Laurence Fishburn was in the pouring rain and hands little Bobby his lost Bishop. I thought to myself, this would be a great opening science to Matrix 4 lol.. Morpheus visiting Neo as a child.. “ keep up the chess kid, your gonna need those tactics “.

There’s so many players that lived extraordinary lives. Certainly a few blockbuster stories just waiting to be told.

I recall reading about a Tournament player who was considered the best by other GrandMasters. He won the World Championship twice but he never perused a full time Chess career. He was also one of the best heart surgeons during the time of a world war. He had a famous quote:

“ Chess is a great board game. These players are brilliant but they should go out and apply it to something in the real world”

I’ll have to look up his name.


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## Brian2112 (Jan 23, 2022)

Interesting that this came up. When I was taking my advanced songwriting course at Berklee, we had to write a new song every two weeks. The first week, the song had to be written and submitted. After that, we had another week for a re-write after being subjected to critique. There was no time for writers block.
The first few weeks, I panicked but then decided to relax and play chess against the computer. I realized that I was writing music while playing chess and ever since, Chess has been my writers block killer.
It is the same type of thinking as composing:Intuition, Discipline, Logic, Creativity, Assessing priorities and relevance, combinations, context and so on.
Chess can be a valuable skill in so many ways.


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## muratkayi (Jan 23, 2022)

Hi everyone! Love chess, but never connected it to composing or making music. When I play chess I feel I am in a totally different mindset than when making music or composing. I would have to give it a try.

When you set up a chess club, I will try and play a match! 
Also, a book recommendation: Aaron Nimzowitsch "Mein System" (Check for translations in your language). Handles every phase of the game and adds his views of how to control the center both by occupying it and by just *influencing* it. Also, after I worked with it, I could really appreciate the end phase of the game, too, while before I mainly enjoyed the middle phase for it being a creative playground with high stakes and wild dynamics.
In the end phase, if you mess up, you sometimes have 10 moves time to watch the inevitable desaster take place - it's like a car crash in slow motion and nothing you can do can change the outcome any more, except of when your opponents don't know how to play the end phase and surprisingly have their asses handed to them when neither you nor them considered that possible anymore, haha.

Wonderful game.


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 23, 2022)

Brian2112 said:


> Interesting that this came up. When I was taking my advanced songwriting course at Berklee, we had to write a new song every two weeks. The first week, the song had to be written and submitted. After that, we had another week for a re-write after being subjected to critique. There was no time for writers block.
> The first few weeks, I panicked but then decided to relax and play chess against the computer. I realized that I was writing music while playing chess and ever since, Chess has been my writers block killer.
> It is the same type of thinking as composing:Intuition, Discipline, Logic, Creativity, Assessing priorities and relevance, combinations, context and so on.
> Chess can be a valuable skill in so many ways.


Writing while playing 🤯... That’s on another level. I agree the game is truly valuable. Immensely underrated in education.


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## Thomas Costantino (Jan 23, 2022)

muratkayi said:


> Hi everyone! Love chess, but never connected it to composing or making music. When I play chess I feel I am in a totally different mindset than when making music or composing. I would have to give it a try.
> 
> When you set up a chess club, I will try and play a match!
> Also, a book recommendation: Aaron Nimzowitsch "Mein System" (Check for translations in your language). Handles every phase of the game and adds his views of how to control the center both by occupying it and by just *influencing* it. Also, after I worked with it, I could really appreciate the end phase of the game, too, while before I mainly enjoyed the middle phase for it being a creative playground with high stakes and wild dynamics.
> ...


I’m on par with you about the mid game. That’s where the creative juices start flowing. I remember reading on one Grand Master that ‘ you better have a great MidGame or else you won’t have a chance to play Endgame’. But I suppose all dynamics should be equally examined. 

Thanks for the book recommendation. Studying the game in and out is certainly one of my top aspirations.


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## MartinH. (Jan 24, 2022)

Have you tried "5D Chess with multiverse time travel"?

(if the following steam link doesn't work because of your ad-blocker, just google it)


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## muratkayi (Jan 24, 2022)

Ah, yes. I am still able to lose my rook unexpectedly to a knight 13 moves in, but multiverse timedilated position analysis is something that I will probably be able to handle while composing with counterpoint


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## MartinH. (Jan 24, 2022)

muratkayi said:


> Ah, yes. I am still able to lose my rook unexpectedly to a knight 13 moves in, but multiverse timedilated position analysis is something that I will probably be able to handle while composing with counterpoint


I haven't played 5D chess, but I don't think the point of it is to be competitively good at it, it's exposing yourself to an entirely unfamiliar way of thinking, so that your brain gets to make some new connections, and experiencing unforseen turns of events that may be interesting or funny.


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## muratkayi (Jan 25, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> exposing yourself to an entirely unfamiliar way of thinking, so that your brain gets to make some new connections, and experiencing unforseen turns of events that may be interesting or funny.


I thought that's what the last two years were all about. Now I feel like I need some tic tac toe to counter the effects of that


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## I like music (Jan 25, 2022)

Learned the rules 25 years ago.

Started playing online a few months ago. Played a game that I was so proud of. I mean, I absolutely nailed his King in a beautiful smothered mate.

Happened to check the Chess.com analysis on the game later on. Turns out I had 7 blunders, and my opponent had a few missed wins. Haha, hung my Queen twice and no one noticed.

I love chess and I also hate it!


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## Thomas Costantino (Jul 10, 2022)

Just got introduced to Chess 960 and I’m loving it ! Totally transforms the game into pure creativity and way less memorization. Opening theory basically means nothing in this variation. Feels like you jump straight into Middle Game.

Has anyone else dabbled with this ? It’s seems way more fun, creative, and less scientific. In my perspective, it also actually mimics a true combat field; considering in war you wouldn’t see the same defenses lined up every time.

For those that never heard of it, it’s also called Fisher Random. Supposedly Bobby Fisher and many Grand Masters at the time were getting board with methodical games. So he created a variation where the back row of power pieces and the King have randomized staring positions. This creates an even more infinite amount of creative strategies and unexpected gameplay.


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## I like music (Jul 11, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> Just got introduced to Chess 960 and I’m loving it ! Totally transforms the game into pure creativity and way less memorization. Opening theory basically means nothing in this variation. Feels like you jump straight into Middle Game.
> 
> Has anyone else dabbled with this ? It’s seems way more fun, creative, and less scientific. In my perspective, it also actually mimics a true combat field; considering in war you wouldn’t see the same defenses lined up every time.
> 
> For those that never heard of it, it’s also called Fisher Random. Supposedly Bobby Fisher and many Grand Masters at the time were getting board with methodical games. So he created a variation where the back row of power pieces and the King have randomized staring positions. This creates an even more infinite amount of creative strategies and unexpected gameplay.


I'm a very lowly rated player (like 500 bad) so even regular chess feels like madness. 

960 was just pure chaos. Spend ten minutes frozen at the board by move two. But the game only got crazier from there! Yeah, it is insanely fun but gives me an even bigger headache than regular chess.


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## tmhuud (Jul 11, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> Chess has been an incredible resource for developing a strategic mindset for business, as well as a tool to immediately induce creative flow states. Above all it helped me increase my capacity for patience and awareness. On top of that, the game is scientifically proven to raise your IQ. It’s been a very powerful tool throughout my Musical journey.
> 
> To get the Creative Flow going, I try to play live games in person a few days before I Compose. Then I play 30 minute timed games online every single day as part as a morning coffee ritual. This way I’m constantly stimulating the mind and feel fired up before jumping in the studio.
> 
> ...


Love the game. Dad taught me chess and Black Jack. I believe he had one of the very first electronic chess games! Lol


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## José Herring (Jul 11, 2022)

Drundfunk said:


> My father used to play chess tournaments and was a really good player. I never really got into the game. I tried as a child, but my father wasn't the best teacher or had the patience to teach me properly. So in the first game I played against him he checkmated me in a few moves. Never actually cared about the game then. A few years after my father's death I picked it up tho and I'm playing daily for the last two years. I'm more into chess puzzles tho. I like playing games once in a while, but I'm not really a fan of learning chess openings. The game would lose a lot of it's charm to me, since for the first few moves it's just about pattern recognition and applying the best "proper" moves to counter an opponent's opening moves. I rather play whatever and then puzzle my way out of it. It's definitely fun. My brother who plays the game for a lot longer than I do always says, if I would learn the chess openings I'd be a really good player. I still beat him once in a while. Not sure if it helps me with composing, but it's definitely a good way to stay mentally fit. I'm also into football tho .


You're philosophical player like me. Every stage of chess is more of a philosophy. Yes, people do slavishly learn openings but I find that those guys are easy to beat because frankly any opening pattern can be defeated in the first few moves. But if you think of it philosophically then it makes sense. The opening just sets up the type of game you want to play, putting your pieces out on the board so that you can bust open the middle game. It doesn't really matter what pattern you use, you just want your pieces in position. Then...... You head into the middle game. The middle game is your game. It's your ability to use tactics and positioning. It sets up the end game but I usually try and beat people in the middle game because it's more exciting. 
The end game then, frankly is so boring to me that if I make it to the end game I usually lose so I have to beat people in the middle game. 
But, think of the opening not as a set pattern of moves but as a way to position your pieces so that by the time you bust open the middle game you're already ahead. Dominate the center and make your opponent waste moves so that you get the tempo of the game on your side. You've set the type of game and the tempo of the game in the opening. 
So the opening you set up your defense and you set up your pieces so that you can play. Anybody that just spends time learning openings is missing the point. Unless you're Grandmaster status and have spent time learning every possible move in every possible opening with the aid of trainers and computers, then learning openings to me is just a waste of time.


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## cqd (Jul 11, 2022)

jorik nyborg said:


> Love chess. Not great (1800 on Lichess) and only play mainly 3 min (or 1 minute if I'm not on laptop) games. I only play on Lichess though. I was finding there's too many cheaters on chess.com. Terrible sportsmanship one finds though, 80% of the players you beat usually exit the game without resigning.
> 
> Anyone fancy a 3min game on Lichess? PM me or hit me up - my Lichess username is: 'DontQuitHaveCourage'. Am playing right now actually.


How can you cheat in chess on a computer?..


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## wahey73 (Jul 11, 2022)

cqd said:


> How can you cheat in chess on a computer?..


on chess.com you can play 1vs1 against other humans, but you don't see them personally, only their moves...and some of them cheat using a chesscomputer to help with their moves.


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## I like music (Jul 11, 2022)

cqd said:


> How can you cheat in chess on a computer?..


Unfortunately it is actually super easy. This is why when the titled players play in online tournaments, they have to have a second webcam sometimes which is set up so that everyone can see THEIR screens in case they are using a chess engine to give them suggestions on which moves to make.


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## José Herring (Jul 11, 2022)

wahey73 said:


> on chess.com you can play 1vs1 against other humans, but you don't see them personally, only their moves...and some of them cheat using a chesscomputer to help with their moves.


This is so rampant on Chess.com and it makes no sense. You know they're busting out a chess program when they spend 2 minutes making bad moves, then they don't move for a minute or 2 then all of sudden making grandmaster level moves. What's the point of that? I just don't get it. The only satisfaction I get is when you beat them and imagine them realizing that they played so poorly that even the computer couldn't save their sorry ass position.


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## NekujaK (Jul 12, 2022)

I like chess - played a lot as a kid, especially with my grandfather, who was a tournament player in his youth. Then in my teens, I discovered go, and fell in love. Spent several years of study and playing at local go clubs and online.

Personally, I find go a bit more interesting because it offers a mix of both grand strategy, that often relies on "feel" and indirect or implied threats, as well as nuts-and-bolts tactical conflicts that require deep analytic thought. There are many different types of decisions you need to make during a go game, as opposed to chess, which to my mind is more "linear" in nature.

Both are great games, though, and are a wonderful way to pass the time. Cheating issues aside, playing online is nowhere near as enjoyable to me as playing face-to-face. If for nothing else, I love the tactile feel of the pieces and the noises they make on the board, especially the "clack" of a go stone, or the exchange of chess pieces. And there's simply no substitute for having another human sitting across the table, fully engaged with you in the same conflict.


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## Ben E (Jul 12, 2022)

José Herring said:


> This is so rampant on Chess.com and it makes no sense. You know they're busting out a chess program when they spend 2 minutes making bad moves, then they don't move for a minute or 2 then all of sudden making grandmaster level moves. What's the point of that? I just don't get it. The only satisfaction I get is when you beat them and imagine them realizing that they played so poorly that even the computer couldn't save their sorry ass position.


In June of this year, an Indian billionaire named Nikhil Kamath beat 5 time World Chess Champion Viswanathan Anand at an online charity tournament organized to help Indian Red Cross’ COVID-19 relief. How did the 34-year-old Kamath do it? He cheated. (There were several conclusive ways to detect that he had cheated, the first and most obvious being that he beat Viswanathan Anand.) He later confessed to having used a computer and gave a non-apology apology on Twitter.

Stop for a moment and let this sink in. You have the opportunity to play a game of chess (or darts, or tennis, or poker or any game you like) against an actual world champion, and what do you do? You cheat in order to win. I mean seriously WTF? Why? Really, WHY? There’s something going on there that can’t be captured with, “Well you know, some people just [insert simple aphorism about cheaters.]” It’s weirder than bog standard cheating, which is bad enough. 

For composers this would be like having the opportunity to sit down — for a whole HOUR — with John Williams or Hans Zimmer or whoever and have them listen closely to your music and to lend advice/criticism. And so what do you do? You find someone else’s music instead and have them listen to _that_. I mean, if you’re going to flush an opportunity down the toilet there are easier ways to do it — just say, “No thank you,” for instance.

But that’s not all. Anand — who could clearly tell he was playing against a computer, not a person — could have still beat the cheater by simply moving quickly near the end. Kamath had only 13 seconds left on his clock — not enough time to enter the moves into his computer assistant. But instead, Anand showed sportsmanship, recognized a theoretically lost position, and resigned the game. Truly a game between two different types of human.

What’s even weirder — Anand was playing against 5 celebrities (including Kamath) at the time. All but two of them cheated.


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## José Herring (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben E said:


> In June of this year, an Indian billionaire named Nikhil Kamath beat 5 time World Chess Champion Viswanathan Anand at an online charity tournament organized to help Indian Red Cross’ COVID-19 relief. How did the 34-year-old Kamath do it? He cheated. (There were several conclusive ways to detect that he had cheated, the first and most obvious being that he beat Viswanathan Anand.) He later confessed to having used a computer and gave a non-apology apology on Twitter.
> 
> Stop for a moment and let this sink in. You have the opportunity to play a game of chess (or darts, or tennis, or poker or any game you like) against an actual world champion, and what do you do? You cheat in order to win. I mean seriously WTF? Why? Really, WHY? There’s something going on there that can’t be captured with, “Well you know, some people just [insert simple aphorism about cheaters.]” It’s weirder than bog standard cheating, which is bad enough.
> 
> ...


Yes I heard about that story. Wasn't he then challenged by another grandmaster for an in person game and she wipe him off the board and then made the statement that he made moves that more resembled somebody that was ranked around 1100 having made basic blunders? 
Yes there are two types of humans, those that have talent and work hard and those that know they have nothing and have to cheat. It's really sad. I think a lot of it just comes down to parenting. All kids tend to want to cheat and you have to sit down with them and get them to understand that if one wins from cheating did they really win? Takes about 5 minutes for a kid to learn that lesson. It's amazing that there are adults out there that still find that cheating is the only way for them to win a game. I mean sure if your life was on the line like in war you use every underhanded trick to win, but it's a chess game for heaven's sake!


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## NekujaK (Jul 12, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Yes there are two types of humans, those that have talent and work hard and those that know they have nothing and have to cheat


Actually, there are three types of humans, those who can count, and those who can't.



Sorry, just couldn't resist the opportunity to throw in one of my favorite little sayings. Back to the regularly scheduled programming....


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## José Herring (Jul 12, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> Actually, there are three types of humans, those who can count, and those who can't.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, just couldn't resist the opportunity to throw in one of my favorite little sayings. Back to the regularly scheduled programming....


I like that one.


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## waterman121 (Sep 15, 2022)

Big chess fan here, I'm actually teaching chess in NY public schools as a day job while I'm in school (studying film scoring at Feirstein Graduate School of Cinema in Brooklyn).

To me, there's definitely some overlap between chess and music. The element that chess helps me train the best is my imagination and creativity. At a certain level (once the basics are acquired), chess ideas and patterns start to become familiar, and that's the perfect moment to begin exploring creative, unorthodox, "unprincipled" moves. Sometimes, you even find gems like a sacrifice or a hidden positional threat that makes the game fascinating and unique. Music composition is sort of similar, in my view. Once the patterns become familiar, you begin to explore ways to add in surprising or unique elements.

I've played in a fair number of tournaments, (I'm not crazy strong, just an average club player) and I found that my enjoyment chess waxed and waned in the competitive environment. Then I got burned out, and my ideas grew stale and repetitive. Eventually, I took a break and looked at some GM games and a handful of new openings. I came back to chess with more of a sense of relaxation and fun, and my play improved. Turned out that playing creatively brought back my love for the game.


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## Technostica (Sep 15, 2022)

My father taught me when I was 12 or so but I was able to beat him fairly quickly so we stopped playing. 
I did play at school and they made me the school captain but I didn't play much after that. 
I was a big fish in a small pond but never studied or wanted to take it further. 
It seems alien to me now. 
I enjoyed computer programming much more as it felt more creative, limitless and useful. 
Not sure why I am comparing the two things! 

Would someone please recommend a website where you can play a machine? 
Maybe I will give it a go!


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## Ben E (Sep 15, 2022)

Technostica said:


> My father taught me when I was 12 or so but I was able to beat him fairly quickly so we stopped playing.
> I did play at school and they made me the school captain but I didn't play much after that.
> I was a big fish in a small pond but never studied or wanted to take it further.
> It seems alien to me now.
> ...


Chess.com


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## bbunker (Sep 15, 2022)

On lichess.org the maia bots are trained by humans at moderate rating levels, when you get bored with the chess.com bots.


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## Thomas Costantino (Sep 15, 2022)

Technostica said:


> My father taught me when I was 12 or so but I was able to beat him fairly quickly so we stopped playing.
> I did play at school and they made me the school captain but I didn't play much after that.
> I was a big fish in a small pond but never studied or wanted to take it further.
> It seems alien to me now.
> ...


Programming and chess are certainly comparable ! Exactly why I compare chess to music : creative, mathematical, and limitless !

Chess is actually the foundation for what we’re seeing with machine learning and AI: Teaching computers the rules of chess, and then teaching them to play creatively like humans, rather than systematic, predictable and boring. I always appreciated that chess was the first and only game Jobs allowed on an apple computer. 

Chess + Music + Computers = Life


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## Thomas Costantino (Sep 15, 2022)

waterman121 said:


> Big chess fan here, I'm actually teaching chess in NY public schools as a day job while I'm in school (studying film scoring at Feirstein Graduate School of Cinema in Brooklyn).
> 
> To me, there's definitely some overlap between chess and music. The element that chess helps me train the best is my imagination and creativity. At a certain level (once the basics are acquired), chess ideas and patterns start to become familiar, and that's the perfect moment to begin exploring creative, unorthodox, "unprincipled" moves. Sometimes, you even find gems like a sacrifice or a hidden positional threat that makes the game fascinating and unique. Music composition is sort of similar, in my view. Once the patterns become familiar, you begin to explore ways to add in surprising or unique elements.
> 
> I've played in a fair number of tournaments, (I'm not crazy strong, just an average club player) and I found that my enjoyment chess waxed and waned in the competitive environment. Then I got burned out, and my ideas grew stale and repetitive. Eventually, I took a break and looked at some GM games and a handful of new openings. I came back to chess with more of a sense of relaxation and fun, and my play improved. Turned out that playing creatively brought back my love for the game.


That’s an amazing gig to supplement your music studies. Sounds like it’s creatively around the clock for you ! 

Very pleased to hear that this school takes it seriously to offer a class. As I’ve mentioned before, I’m an advocate for teaching chess at every grade level as a requirement. Is this a program they initiated, or did you approach them ?


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## Lionel Schmitt (Sep 15, 2022)

the only flow I'm capable of happens in the bathroom


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## Lionel Schmitt (Sep 15, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> Programming and chess are certainly comparable ! Exactly why I compare chess to music : creative, mathematical, and limitless !


most of my favorite composers I asked suck at math though XD
I don't think there is any relation. 
Seems like opposites more, at least when looking at it as novel creative and emotional choices.
All opposites to a logic based pre-existing unchangeable construct. 
Unless one approaches writing music like an AI with recipes and methodic. In which case I'd fear for my job soon


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## Thomas Costantino (Sep 15, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> most of my favorite composers I asked suck at math though XD
> I don't think there is any relation.
> Seems like opposites more, at least when looking at it as novel creative and emotional choices.
> All opposites to a logic based pre-existing unchangeable construct.
> Unless one approaches writing music like an AI with recipes and methodic. In which case I'd fear for my job soon


I bet 90 percent of composers suck at math. Not saying people will be innately good at one if they know the other. Music, chess and programming are comprised of math, structure, adaptation and creative thinking. Overall, the creations in Music, Programming and Chess are literally limitless. 

Very interesting discussion but I strongly disagree my friend. The relations are staggering.


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## I like music (Sep 16, 2022)

Took a free pawn yesterday. 

It wasn't free. 

The bastard tricked me into forking my queen and rook. 

I lost the rook. It was a -10 move apparently. 

I hate chess so much. 

Right, time for another game.


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## MartinH. (Sep 16, 2022)

I like music said:


> I hate chess so much.
> 
> Right, time for another game.



Try Shotgun King: The Final Checkmate



You have only a King, but he has a shotgun, and gains new abilities over the course of the game, but so do the enemy pieces.


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## I like music (Sep 16, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Try Shotgun King: The Final Checkmate
> 
> 
> 
> You have only a King, but he has a shotgun, and gains new abilities over the course of the game, but so do the enemy pieces.



Holy crap. I must try this out. Thanks!


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## Fab (Oct 3, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> Chess has been an incredible resource for developing a strategic mindset for business


I don't think this is true.


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## Thomas Costantino (Oct 3, 2022)

Fab said:


> I don't think this is true.


Certainly true for me bud !


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## Fab (Oct 3, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> Certainly true for me bud !


I know of at least a few grandmasters who are not the greatest businessmen.


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## Thomas Costantino (Oct 3, 2022)

Fab said:


> I know of at least a few grandmasters who are not the greatest businessmen.


With the average GrandMaster Salary being 30K... you bet your ass they’re not businessmen 😂 

One of the greatest players only attended 2 world championships and won them both. He was asked ‘ Why don’t you complete every year ?’. He replied ‘ I’m a heart surgeon. I don’t have time for this. What’s the point of developing a brilliant mind for chess if you don’t go out in the world and do something with it ? This is just a board game’.


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## Wensleydale (Oct 3, 2022)

Thomas Costantino said:


> One of the greatest players only attended 2 world championships and won them both.


Who?


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## Thomas Costantino (Oct 4, 2022)

Wensleydale said:


> Who?


Forgot his name. Player in the late 1800’s. I’ll look it up later and post when I can.


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