# Help me write some action music



## bluejay (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi, I'm a fairly novice composer/orchestrator and I was wondering if some of you good people here could help me with my latest piece. I've been reading this forum for a while now and I've been impressed with the general ability and knowledge here.

This is a 1 minute loop of action music for a video game (it's not a commercial project, don't worry) and I could do with some suggestions to help it.

Basically, when I start writing stuff like this, the orchestration seems to take a life of it's own and before I know it I've gone in a totally different direction.

So... Exhibit A is http://www.genomia.co.uk/boards/battle.mp3

This was my action music (a long way from finished I know) but you can hear that it is already mutating into some kind of James Bond/Incredibles theme tune.

So, can you good people please give some suggestions of a few things to help make the music more tense and remove some of the lushness from the arrangement?

Also, could anyone suggest better choices for 'tension chords' (you'll recognise them, they start around 22 seconds in)? My chords either sound too simple and consonant or turn into old B-movie 'horror chords.' 

Thanks in advance.


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## Tag (Nov 8, 2006)

hi bluejay,

i'm no professional, but maybe my suggestions will help you:
- i would make more fast violin runs into the track
- i also would make more reverb into the track to make it sound more mighty
- maybe you could make the bass parts in 22 sec. play not every pointed 4th but pointed 8th, i mean some kind of double the rhythm
- more percussions, fast rhythm (maybe hi hats, toms,...)
- i think the brasses are a bit missing in the rhythm parts (maybe more bones, tubas,...)

nevertheless i liked the idea of the track, keep on! i hope i could help you, or give you some inspirations ideas ... although if my very english is bad 


manu


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## bluejay (Nov 8, 2006)

Thank you very much Tag! Very useful ideas there.

I've been listening to lots of similar music and I have some ideas to improve the piece.

I've cut down on the xylophone and increased the tempo to make it sound less like a News programme theme tune.

I agree that the trombones need to be heard more in the main rhythmic part. I was listening to the 'Swamp Battle' music by James Horner (from the Krull soundtrack) and I want to do something more like that. I also am considering making this section more harmonic (rather than unisons and octaves).

Also I plan to break up the continuous rhythm a bit.

I'll post up the changes in the next day or two...


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## bluejay (Nov 8, 2006)

Hi Hannes and thanks for the comments.

You're right that this is a predictable rhythm but I want to get some of the basics under my belt first. I am only a novice at orchestration/composition. I didn't even know that it was a bolero rhythm! (Must ... study ... harder).

I was thinking that the brass also helped make it sound like James Bond but you're right, major seventh chords in the strings isn't really action music...

I'm writing a new version and it will be a lot 'tougher' sounding.

Incidentally, Hannes, did you have any suggestions for big 'tension chords'? I was thinking of ideas like John Williams' Asteroid Field piece.

Finally, the reason I'm writing battle music is that it's the last piece for Assignment 2 of the Music for the Media course (http://www.musicforthemedia.co.uk/). 

I've already written the other three pieces and feel free to critique them as well. They are supposed to be for a Tomb Raider-style game.

A 1 minute loop of ambient music for exploring a cave http://www.genomia.co.uk/boards/cave.mp3

A 5 second 'sting' when a lever is pulled and a secret door opens http://www.genomia.co.uk/boards/lever.mp3

Another 1 minute of tension/suspense music exploring a tunnel http://www.genomia.co.uk/boards/tunnel.mp3

The final piece is for a battle against 400 robots or something.

I got the 'idea' (and rhythm) for the music from a Tomb Raider sequence (fighting the snake in Tomb Raider Legend) but I've heard similar music all over the place. I was trying to avoid the obvious techno/rock fight music.


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## bluejay (Nov 11, 2006)

Ok, well I've gone in a slightly different direction now. I have kept the bolero rhythm in there but not for the entire piece (I felt it would become annoying in a loop). 

I've now removed a lot of the lushness and increased the brass a lot. I've also moved to EWQLSO for a bigger Hollywood sound.

http://www.genomia.co.uk/boards/battle2.mp3

Only 20 seconds there at the moment. I'll probably strip some of this down and add choral vocals underneath but my PC will struggle with it...


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## Tag (Nov 11, 2006)

well i dont like the hi hats so much. maybe you could chose some hats which are more "clicky" ( = closed hi) ? and would suggest a simple 16th-rhythms for theme, i think this could improve the "drive"
i think there're also missing the woodwinds and the higher strings 
(remember: this are just my remarks)

nevertheless, good luck for next time!


manu


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## bluejay (Nov 11, 2006)

Thanks again Tag.

The washy hi-hat sounds are really a place holder for something else. I was thinking some kind of wooden percussion but I just haven't found the sound yet.

I've brought some of the woodwind and high strings in now. I'm a little wary of them because they can quickly bring a lush orchestral sound and lose some of the 'battle music' vibe I'm going for.

Anyway, you can download it from the same place (http://www.genomia.co.uk/battle2.mp3)

As I mentioned before, I'll add a male chorus underneath which might work well.


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## Tag (Nov 11, 2006)

i think you should try more staccato like soundings in homophonic sound, nothing like "echo-sounds" in your track. i dont know how to describe, because my english is quite bad. well, i try to explain. in your track the deep brasses seems to have a tone on every second and fourth "clock impact" ( ?). this is like an off-beat in my ears. try to make it more homophone with the deep strings.
it's just my opinion, but i would make all deep instruments play the same and all high insturments play the same. 
i hope you understand me :oops: 

manu


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## bluejay (Nov 11, 2006)

Tag, I think I understand what you mean. There is a pulsing 8th note feeling in the first section. It's actually cellos and bassoons that are keeping that going. I can easily make it more staccato and I think it will sound better.

I appreciate your advice. It's always good to get other opinions.


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## bluejay (Nov 15, 2006)

Ok, I've spent some time working on this. It still isn't finished but it's a lot further on.

I've taken comments from Hannes and Tag on board and hopefully that will be apparent.

I've still to add choral singers. There will be chanting under the first section and the final section will be primarily vocal (think Duel of the Fates).

http://www.genomia.co.uk/boards/battle2.mp3


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## Hannes_F (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi,

I think the beginning is defenitely better. At 0:15 it becomes very predictable again.

Copy and paste has its merits and its problems, hehe. :smile: 

Hannes


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## bluejay (Nov 16, 2006)

Hahaha... 

Yeah the bolero section does need something else. Basically it is the same thing copied from C#m to D#m to F#m. I did add a countermelody over the D#m section to try and break it up a little. Once the piece is completed end-to-end then I will make more of an effort to break that section up. I'm also looking at making more of a build up from there into the next section (the sustained chords at 28 seconds).

Any other advice on orchestration and instrumentation? I feel like my French Horns are possibly going too high and losing power. Does the brass sound ok (it isn't mixed yet)? I have got Project SAM Orchestral Brass as well and was wondering whether I might improve the trumpet sounds.

All comments welcome.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi Bluejay,

I do not have enough time to do a full analysis of your piece but one comment I would like to make is that for an action piece your tune is badly lacking in the bottom end department. You should look for a piece that you feel inspired by and compare it sonically to yours. This would help you discern what is missing in terms of frequencies (low end!)


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## bluejay (Nov 16, 2006)

Patrick,

Thank you for this comment.

Do you have a specific set of frequencies that you feel are missing? Personally I think it is a little weak on the cellos and basses because they are being drowned out by the brass. Are we talking about the baritone range, the bass or even sub-bass frequencies specifically or was this more of an overall bottom end?

I have been using a variety of pieces as inspiration but mostly a track called 'Battle in the Swamp' from the Krull soundtrack (by James Horner) and The Fighting Uruk-Hai and The White Tree from Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings soundtrack. I will now go back and compare the pieces with your advice in mind.

Thanks again


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## bluejay (Nov 18, 2006)

Ok guys, well this is the final piece I sent to my tutor. I didn't really manage to get away from the copy/paste feel too much but it's ok to my mind. It feels like computer game battle music to me.

I've boosted up the brass using Project SAM Solo Sessions and I've added violins and cellos from the VRSounds Kontakt Strings.

The chanting/grunting noises are courtesy of Symphonic Choirs.

http://www.genomia.co.uk/boards/battle3.mp3

The track is designed to be a 1 minute loop which is why it ends with a build up.


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## Ed (Nov 18, 2006)

bluejay @ Sat Nov 18 said:


> The chanting/grunting noises are courtesy of Symphonic Choirs.
> 
> http://www.genomia.co.uk/boards/battle3.mp3
> 
> The track is designed to be a 1 minute loop which is why it ends with a build up.



From an orchestration perspective you need some harder hits on the down beats imo. Get some low brass staccs and basses staccs along with some nice punchy drums. I think thats one of the things people meant when its lacking low end frequencies.


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## bluejay (Nov 21, 2006)

Well my reviewer liked this but felt that it could have used some dissonance in the brass.

Can anyone please give me some example of this? Either actual kinds of chords commonly used (SvK gave me some nice examples of 13th chords yesterday) or soundtracks or classical pieces to listen to.


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## SvK (Nov 21, 2006)

bluejay........try this....

Let's take my cue.......in the beginning is that french-horn right? And the low brass staccato right?

Well that 's how I arrived at the 13th chord.....

Those 3 notes are the notes of the brass/horns played together as a chord and.....

Then I thought that the minor 2nd in the chord needed to sound clearer so I lifted that note an Octave.


This is gonna sound silly but as a starting point it works......when looking for those cool dissonant chords play all the notes of a short motiv from your piece at the same time, and start sculpting from there......this of course worx best when your short motiv has some semi-tone movements (since you need those minor 2nds)


For listening and hearing some of this stuff really exposed:

Alien: Jerry Goldsmith
Outlaw Josey Wales: Jerry Fielding

On Itunes is a great CD called: "The Alien Triliogy"...it's a mid-90s rerecording and has all the best cues from Alien. Buy it.


ps: get away from the 4/4s and drip some verbs over your cue. 

All the best,

SvK


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## careyford (Feb 7, 2007)

It's been fun listening to the evolution of the battle cue. Thanks for leaving them up for us late comers! :mrgreen: 

I think the comments about stronger orchestration on the accented beats is a really good one (Bass Drum, maybe add some old style synth hits). 

For me, there is a really simple compositional concept that I think you'll enjoy playing with on this piece and in general. Think of the phrases or sections as thoughts. Then either interrupt or extend the thought. In this piece, your phrase lengths remain pretty symmetrical. Try bringing in the runs at :41 in a couple beats earlier or let the transition out of the preceding trumpet figure take longer to happen. 

Also from an orchestration stand point, I'm not hearing much creative doubling. (It might be me.) What about a noticeable flute on the high violin figure or even an oboe. Bass Clarinet could help liven up the low lines and add some texture. 

All in all though a lot of fun.


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## bluejay (Feb 8, 2007)

Careyford,

Thanks for the comments. I have better ideas (and samples) for strong bass hits nowadays.

The creative doubling is definitely a good idea however this project totally hammered my PC and I was struggling to finish it anyway. I even had to create choral pieces in a seperate project, mix them to audio and import them into this project.

Thankfully I have a new PC arriving any day now and perhaps I'll get a chance to revisit this piece and re-orchestrate it with the addition of True Strike and Dan Dean Solo Strings.


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## careyford (Feb 8, 2007)

Can't wait to hear the results. --I'm constantly overwhelming my computer, too. I frequently bounce big sections down while I'm composing to help with processing. I wonder how many hours of recording with a live orchestra all this gear would have paid for... (probably about an hour.)


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