# Why I despise the Spitfire Player...Rant alert.



## prodigalson (Dec 22, 2019)

I hate the Spitfire Audio Sample Player. 

But not for the same reasons as most. 

Yes, I think the giant knob that requires you to click on it to reassign it's functions (even though there's about 12 square inches of empty space next to it) is silly. But I don't really care that much

Yes, the need to page through mic positions (especially in HZS that has so many) and page through articulations with so much empty space on either side is borderline offensive to a professional user. But whatever, I don't actually care that much and it makes more UX sense than some of the bizarre choices OT made. 

The reason I hate it is...THE CONSTANT NEED TO REPAIR. REPAIR. REPAIR. and waste time downloading some data every time. Whether it's HZS, Orbis, BBCSO, LABS every single time I open my DAW there's a 50/50 chance I'll get the "Error #1. Something went wrong. Let's fix it!" message. Then I have to open the Spitfire app and go ahead and repair each library. This happens constantly. And sometimes for real reasons. I've moved a library, I don't have it completely up to date etc. etc. REPAIR. REPAIR. REPAIR. But sometimes it seems totally random. 

Currently, I'm using LABS on something and every time I open the plugin window I get the message. I don't need to repair because the plugin does actually see my presets and samples. It works fine. but every time I change preset I get the same error message. So I just ignore it but it's annoying. 

However, just now I tried to open BBCSO and I get the same error that I need to repair the library. Even though I SWEAR I've already opened this project on this system and haven't touched it since. Why do I suddenly need to repair again when I haven't touched the files. I've gone ahead and repaired the library (for every section of the library too. what a PITA) BUT NOW, Logic no longer thinks BBCSO is even on my system. Great, the plugin was working. the project was fine. Now I have to engage in a troubleshoot to figure out why the DAW isn't seeing it anymore. 

This seems like intentional functionality deliberately built into how the plugin functions but iT JUST DOES NOT WORK. Kontakt does not just suddenly stop working requiring me to redownload a bunch of crap in a seperate app every time. The SINE player, which has it's own bugs and issues, does not require this ridiculous process to maintain the plugin. 

I swear if I open one of these plugins one more time and get the "Error 1" message I'm going to throw my computer out the window. 

Why can't I just POINT the player to where my library is. Why do I have to open the SF app and download a bunch of crap every time the state of the player changes even slightly. What is it downloading??? Every time I have to move a library I need to redownload 10mb of something or other. It is such a PITA and a huge mistake in the how they designed the functionality of the plugin.

And yes, i've contacted support. And I'm about to again now. But the fact that this project was fine until suddnely it wasn't and now I have to contact support and wait for them to get back to me just because I followed the steps they recommended and it totally broke the plugin is INFURIATING. It is death to the creative process and makes me absolutely just want to use Kontakt. 

END OF RANT.


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## jules (Dec 22, 2019)

Interesting post. I sincerely empathize. Glad i did not bite the player bullet (still) and will stay on kontakt for the moment ! Thank you for posting !


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## Apina (Dec 22, 2019)

I've go the same problem. Most of the libraries don't work unless I contact support. It takes usually days until everything starts to work. That's the main reason I decided not to buy BBC. Too much hassle and unstability.


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## nolotrippen (Dec 22, 2019)

THE CONSTANT NEED TO REPAIR. REPAIR. REPAIR

I have a number of "Wish List" items and at the top is that they fix their player and/or return to Kontakt. Until and unless they do that, I'm holding on to my cash, no matter the deal, which is a shame.


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## zimm83 (Dec 22, 2019)

Pffff.... just stay Kontakt....... Pfff


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## dzilizzi (Dec 22, 2019)

And this is when I realize all the LABS I use are Kontakt versions. Although I have Player versions, I don't remember seeing them show up in my DAW. And when I try to reload them they say they are installed. I think I need to make sure the player works before buying any of these libraries.


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## jbuhler (Dec 22, 2019)

I’ve never had a technical issue with the SF player. I count myself lucky. This kind of thing drives me crazy and there are several libraries I rarely use because they throw up such issues. For me these are almost all Kontakt libraries however, so just making libraries Kontakt also does not solve the problem.


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## robgb (Dec 22, 2019)

I had that problem for awhile. After doing the suggested fix several times (can't remember what it was) the problem went away and I haven't experienced it since.


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 22, 2019)

robgb said:


> I had that problem for awhile. After doing the suggested fix several times (can't remember what it was) the problem went away and I haven't experienced it since.


Same here. Somehow I broke the link between the plugin and the samples. Has been fine since. Sorry I can't help the OP further. Hope you get it sorted.


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## tomosane (Dec 22, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> And this is when I realize all the LABS I use are Kontakt versions. Although I have Player versions, I don't remember seeing them show up in my DAW. And when I try to reload them they say they are installed. I think I need to make sure the player works before buying any of these libraries.



My experience is that if you've installed a product from the SF app, this info is registered on your account and the product is "installed" even if you, say, upgrade to a new computer setup with a clean OS install. Not a problem with the Kontakt libraries since they are literally just files that are easy to add to your sampler from Native Access. But I have no idea how I would cleanly install the Labs plugins I had on my previous setup. Not a huge problem really, free stuff and all, but I might be more annoyed if I was in this situation with BBC...


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## jbuhler (Dec 22, 2019)

I always have to reregister my Heavyocity Kontakt libraries when I change computers, at least as of 2016 which was the last time I did it (and about the time, as I recall that NI was changing to Native Access). The NI stuff and most of the other player libraries moved fine but I did have to contact Heavyocity support to get those licenses set properly.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 22, 2019)

Yes, I upgraded my computer about 6 months ago and they haven't been around since then.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 22, 2019)

Weird, I’ve never has this issue. I’m on Mac.


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## gussunkri (Dec 22, 2019)

prodigalson said:


> I hate the Spitfire Audio Sample Player.
> 
> But not for the same reasons as most.
> 
> ...


That sounds really frustrating. I briefly had a similar problem, but I had failed to repair the actual plug-in, rather than just the libraries. Once I made sure to have repaired all the libraries and their plug-in, the problems went away. Hopefully there is a simple fix for you too. The plug-in currently works great on both PC and Mac for me now.


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## Quasar (Dec 22, 2019)

I am very happy with the Spitfire libraries that I have. Fortunately, they are all pre-Native Access era Kontakt libraries. Since I have less than zero interest in getting involved in yet _another _ecosystem that does not allow for offline activation, their player simply does not exist in my universe.

My Xmas wish list for Spitfire consists of an appeal to allow their player to be installed and products activated on an offline computer. Should they ever decide to to this, I would once again become interested in familiarizing myself with what they have for sale.


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## zolhof (Dec 22, 2019)

I had this happen a few times when I moved the BBCSO to a larger disk and, if my memory serves me right, I used "Locate" first for each section+plugin and then "Repair". Never again!

I can understand your frustration, I would be losing my marbles if I had to go through repair hell in random sessions. Don't lose your hope, though. I know it's a time-consuming process but keep troubleshooting it with Spitfire, they *will *sort you out.

It took me weeks of back and forth with support to sort my issues out. Now the BBCSO is the snappiest of all my libraries.


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## Tvliesin (Dec 22, 2019)

I haven’t had a single issue with the player using HZS in a week of using it. Using a new 16” MacBook Pro 32gb ram for reference.

I agree with the lack of empty space should be filled for the artics and dynamics because clicking less equals faster workflow but it’s not make or break. For me it’s been a good player.


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## jiten (Dec 22, 2019)

This literally just happened to me yesterday with labs, except for some weird reason even the “repair” didn’t do it, so I had to trash the LABS folder and re-download the libs. I thought I just messed something up somewhere along the line (entirely possible!)

I also maintain a slave PC with synced libs and my usual workflow with Kontakt libs whenever I add or update something is to simply copy over the new/changed folder and point Native Access (or quickload) to it. That seems to not work at least with LABS on the Spitfire Player. I can’t seem to just move the folder over and relocate without it ending in an “Error 1” (I’m on windows for my main rig).

The only other Spitfire Player libs I have are epic strings/ww/brass which I only recently downloaded so don’t have a ton of experience with the player. Those have their own VST plugin installed though, which was a bit confusing but I guess each lib is its own plugin. That also makes syncing between a master/slave setup more involved.

Relatedly, another wishlist item from me would be to have the Spitfire Manager read what’s currently on the computer it’s installed on when displaying status of updates or what version is installed. Right now when I update my main rig or download/add a new lib I have to “forget the update” in order to reapply it on the slave (vs Native Access where it shows what isn’t installed/allows me to “install” by selecting location of the lib and also what updates are available for THAT computer).

But all in all, loving the LABS stuff so far.


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## N.Caffrey (Dec 22, 2019)

I must be lucky, I’ve never had a single problem with the labs and hzs (but I do wish they changed a bit the layout of their player!)


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## redlester (Dec 22, 2019)

No problem with it here, never had to repair any of them even once. Am on a 7 year old Mac Mini, using Mojave.


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## NoamL (Dec 22, 2019)

nolotrippen said:


> THE CONSTANT NEED TO REPAIR. REPAIR. REPAIR
> 
> I have a number of "Wish List" items and at the top is that they fix their player and/or return to Kontakt. Until and unless they do that, I'm holding on to my cash, no matter the deal, which is a shame.



Forgive me, I don't see why you'd even hold out on deals for their Kontakt libraries?

Kontakt support will remain for their old libs like BML/SSO.


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## AndyP (Dec 22, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Weird, I’ve never has this issue. I’m on Mac.


This only happened to me when I swapped hard drives between computers. Depending on the manufacturer. Since I use separate hard disks for all my computers I don't have this problem anymore.


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## Virtuoso (Dec 22, 2019)

tomosane said:


> My experience is that if you've installed a product from the SF app, this info is registered on your account and the product is "installed" even if you, say, upgrade to a new computer setup with a clean OS install.


Yes, this is weird and not very useful. 'Installed' just lists everything you have _ever_ installed, not necessarily what you _currently_ have installed. If it can tell which libraries need updates, surely it can also tell what you actually have on your drives?

Mine lists every single BML library as installed, none of which which I have ever installed on my current Mac. When I set up a PC as a slave, it listed every Spitfire Library as installed, even though I needed to do a totally fresh installation.


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## givemenoughrope (Dec 22, 2019)

I can’t imagine being stuck trying to use Chamber Strings/Sable with anything but Kontakt. I never even dl’ed the new Evo versions.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 22, 2019)

Virtuoso said:


> Mine lists every single BML library as installed, none of which which I have ever installed on my current Mac. When I set up a PC as a slave, it listed every Spitfire Library as installed, even though I needed to do a totally fresh installation.



I'm dealing with this very problem at this very moment. I'm trying to install my Spitfire libraries on my new Mac Pro, and it looks like the only way it's going to happen is by contacting Spitfire Audio customer service, which of course isn't responding on a Sunday.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 22, 2019)

Contact them anyway. Earlier today I realized I didn't have one of my Kontakt libraries anywhere on my system. I didn't remember downloading it but reset didn't work either. I put in a ticket a few hours ago and about an hour later I checked and saw it was available to download. They have really great support if they are able to fix it. And maybe the problems with the player are more complicated than support can deal with it?


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## Symfoniq (Dec 22, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Contact them anyway. Earlier today I realized I didn't have one of my Kontakt libraries anywhere on my system. I didn't remember downloading it but reset didn't work either. I put in a ticket a few hours ago and about an hour later I checked and saw it was available to download. They have really great support if they are able to fix it. And maybe the problems with the player are more complicated than support can deal with it?



I contacted them 12 hours ago. Still no response.


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 22, 2019)

Symfoniq said:


> I contacted them 12 hours ago. Still no response.


It's Sunday though..


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## holywilly (Dec 22, 2019)

I filed a support ticket regarding error #1 weeks ago, my suggestion to SA is to allow users to locate libraries directly from the plugin instead of repairing via app.


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## Virtuoso (Dec 22, 2019)

Symfoniq said:


> 'm trying to install my Spitfire libraries on my new Mac Pro, and it looks like the only way it's going to happen is by contacting Spitfire Audio customer service, which of course isn't responding on a Sunday.


If you click on each product, to the right of the greyed out bit that says 'installed' there is a tiny cog. Click that and a popup will ask you if you want to reset the latest update or the entire library. Choose the latter and you should be off to the races.


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## Symfoniq (Dec 22, 2019)

Virtuoso said:


> If you click on each product, to the right of the greyed out bit that says 'installed' there is a tiny cog. Click that and a popup will ask you if you want to reset the latest update or the entire library. Choose the latter and you should be off to the races.



Yep, I should be, but it’s not working. Hopefully they will straighten this out tomorrow.


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## tmhuud (Dec 22, 2019)

What the so called ‘suggested fixes’ for the new player. Are they installation issues, a folder heirarchy issue, etc?


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## HeliaVox (Dec 22, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Weird, I’ve never has this issue. I’m on Mac.


I have. 
At first I thought I was doing something wrong. 
But I don't move my sample libraries around. 
So I'm wondering why every time I open the Spitfire Installer App, I have to repair a library or two. 
I'm starting to amass a small armies worth of their products, and it's always repair this, repair that.....even if I haven't used the sample library in question. 
Sometimes I click repair and nothing happens, so I restart my computer and then the repair button is now missing from the library I was just told to repair.
Whats going on in the background with the Spitfire stuff that I'm not aware of?


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## purple (Dec 22, 2019)

Well I'm happy this thread found its way in between me hearing about the spitfire christmas wish list and me putting stuff in my wish list.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 22, 2019)

purple said:


> Well I'm happy this thread found its way in between me hearing about the spitfire christmas wish list and me putting stuff in my wish list.


Right now, only HZ Strings, BBCSO and EW Choir use the new player. Plus the free Labs. I would "buy" a Lab library and try it out first to see if it works on your system. Some people have no issues with it. All the other libraries are Kontakt and won't have these issues.


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## purple (Dec 22, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Right now, only HZ Strings, BBCSO and EW Choir use the new player. Plus the free Labs. I would "buy" a Lab library and try it out first to see if it works on your system. Some people have no issues with it. All the other libraries are Kontakt and won't have these issues.


Are there plans to migrate things over? I hope if so it isn't mandatory... Unless they manage to fix the spitfire player. I downloaded a labs instrument and their player when it was all fairly new because I was doing one of their competitions, but I found the UI was meh and it generally didn't feel great to use.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 22, 2019)

purple said:


> Are there plans to migrate things over? I hope if so it isn't mandatory... Unless they manage to fix the spitfire player. I downloaded a labs instrument and their player when it was all fairly new because I was doing one of their competitions, but I found the UI was meh and it generally didn't feel great to use.


That's why you buy now while it's still Kontakt.


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## Michel Simons (Dec 22, 2019)

purple said:


> Are there plans to migrate things over? I hope if so it isn't mandatory... Unless they manage to fix the spitfire player. I downloaded a labs instrument and their player when it was all fairly new because I was doing one of their competitions, but I found the UI was meh and it generally didn't feel great to use.



Some of the EVO libraries were migrated over. I don't think you can still get the Kontakt versions of those.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 22, 2019)

Michel Simons said:


> Some of the EVO libraries were migrated over. I don't think you can still get the Kontakt versions of those.


I missed that. I will have to add them to my mental list. :


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## brenneisen (Dec 22, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> I missed that. I will have to add them to my mental list. :



OPW, Alev Lenz - 3, Orbis


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## dzilizzi (Dec 22, 2019)

And Aperture which I got free at BF. I was thinking about getting OPW - forgot about that one. But it's not on the Wishlist sale as far as I can tell, so I will probably wait.


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## Chris Hurst (Dec 22, 2019)

I actually don’t mind the player, but I’m going through something similar whilst trying to install a “light” version Of BBCSO on my MacBook (Mix01 mic only). I’ve tried everything suggested in the spitfire support pages, but no luck so far and had to log a ticket.

A bit frustrating for us to have to contact support and I’m sure for Spitfire support as well. Hopefully this can be figured out and made simpler in future.


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## Cinebient (Dec 22, 2019)

No problem here so far and i even prefer their player because i mainly use a macbook pro and sadly most Spitfire Kontakt GUI‘s are terrible for me.


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## SpitfireSupport (Dec 22, 2019)

prodigalson said:


> The reason I hate it is...THE CONSTANT NEED TO REPAIR. REPAIR. REPAIR. and waste time downloading some data every time. Whether it's HZS, Orbis, BBCSO, LABS every single time I open my DAW there's a 50/50 chance I'll get the "Error #1. Something went wrong. Let's fix it!" message. Then I have to open the Spitfire app and go ahead and repair each library. This happens constantly. And sometimes for real reasons. I've moved a library, I don't have it completely up to date etc. etc. REPAIR. REPAIR. REPAIR. But sometimes it seems totally random.


Error 1 indicates that the authorisation is broken and should only happen if you've moved the library to a different computer, moved the files or renamed something in the path that leads to the library. We have had an issue where a windows update broke the authorisation but that should be fixed. If it's happening to you completely at random then please do liaise with our support to see if we can figure out why.



ClefferNotes said:


> Having to wait for support to get back to you to be able to do something as simple as locating sample content just seems like a huge oversight to be honest.


This should be possible with the "relocate" feature in the app, repair is only needed to reauthorise the product (it also does the relocate and reinstalls the plugin)



HeliaVox said:


> So I'm wondering why every time I open the Spitfire Installer App, I have to repair a library or two.


If you see the "repair" option in the app, this doesn't mean you need to use it. You only need to repair if you get an error.



dzilizzi said:


> And Aperture which I got free at BF


Aperture is actually a Kontakt Player library



tomosane said:


> My experience is that if you've installed a product from the SF app, this info is registered on your account and the product is "installed" even if you, say, upgrade to a new computer setup with a clean OS install. Not a problem with the Kontakt libraries since they are literally just files that are easy to add to your sampler from Native Access. But I have no idea how I would cleanly install the Labs plugins I had on my previous setup. Not a huge problem really, free stuff and all, but I might be more annoyed if I was in this situation with BBC...


Yes, the app only knows if you've installed a product not if it's installed on the specific computer you're on right now. In order to install on a second computer, use the "cog" on the specific library and choose "reset"


We are looking at how the app and our plugins function and will be putting in some serious work to try to make things better, particularly when it comes to the way errors are reported and enabling users to fix problems when they occur and/or move their products around on their computers or between systems.

Thanks for those that have made suggestions and sorry for those that have been kept waiting for solutions to their issues, I know that our support team has been slow to respond recently because of how busy Black Friday was - we're also looking to improve in that area too. Ben


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## dzilizzi (Dec 22, 2019)

I just downloaded Aperture today. Good to know it is Kontakt. I do need to play with the new lab libraries to figure out if I have them fixed. I was trying to keep them out of the Kontakt folder where the Kontakt libraries go, but frankly, everything is a bit of a mess as I've been moving slowly to SSDs.


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## SpitfireSupport (Dec 23, 2019)

One other fairly common thing, and I'm not suggesting this is your problem specifically OP, is that people expect to be able to have the library on an external disk which they can then use on two different computers. So they install on one computer and everything is fine and then they move to another computer and need to repair, then they move back and need to repair again and so on and so on until they run out of available reauthorisations.

I'm not suggesting that this isn't a reasonable way to operate but we don't have an elegant way of doing it right now and our best suggestion is to use separate disks for the two computers (I know having the same data in two places is wasteful).

If you are feeling bold, there is a way of operating on two computers with one hard drive which we have documented here: https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/h...ow-do-I-use-one-hard-drive-with-two-machines-


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## ClefferNotes (Dec 23, 2019)

SpitfireSupport said:


> Error 1 indicates that the authorisation is broken and should only happen if you've moved the library to a different computer, moved the files or renamed something in the path that leads to the library. We have had an issue where a windows update broke the authorisation but that should be fixed. If it's happening to you completely at random then please do liaise with our support to see if we can figure out why.
> 
> 
> This should be possible with the "relocate" feature in the app, repair is only needed to reauthorise the product (it also does the relocate and reinstalls the plugin)
> ...



Ahhh that’s fantastic! I didn’t know that feature was now available to relocate samples! Thanks for clarifying!


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## MartinH. (Dec 23, 2019)

Do these "repair needed" issues only happen on macs by chance? I have a hunch it could possibly be a file permissions issue.


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## KarlHeinz (Dec 23, 2019)

I must admit I have given up on the player to.

First problems on Notebook while it runs fine on pc, repair or anything else adviced dont work. I have never installed on any external ssd or anything, what might have happened that I had chosen different library installation places while installing the free apps one after another over the months while they appeared.

Then problems on PC to, just the same, repair or anything wont help and I just dont have hours and hours to try to resolve these problems. As I only used the free apps I just have given up.

But of course this keeps me back from buying the small cheep libraries they offer now that I am otherwise would be really interested in. But not before the app works.


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## prodigalson (Dec 23, 2019)

SpitfireSupport said:


> Error 1 indicates that the authorisation is broken and should only happen if you've moved the library to a different computer, moved the files or renamed something in the path that leads to the library. We have had an issue where a windows update broke the authorisation but that should be fixed. If it's happening to you completely at random then please do liaise with our support to see if we can figure out why.



Thank you but I assure you I am experiencing the issue despite not moving the library or renaming anything. As I mentioned in my original post, the issue I specifically have with BBCSO happened on a project that previously ran perfectly on the same system. I’ll add that repairing it not only didn’t fix the issue but removed the plugin completely and Logic no longer sees it as an AU. Conveniently, I attempted to repair it so many times (unsuccessfully) that I’m out of repairs so now I’m stuck unable to work on that project using BBCSO at all.

My issue with LABS is slightly different in that I get the error 1 message every time I change preset (despite attempting to repair several times). The sounds and presets work perfectly but it’s annoying to have to x out of the error message to access the functions of the library every time I change preset.

I have contacted support regarding this and am in a dialogue with Stewart regarding it.l (in the same email chain I had with him regarding the same issue I had with Orbis).

I understand the functionality makes sense to spitfire and may seem obvious to you but right now using the plugins in my system consistently without issue feels like a crapshoot and I don’t feel this way about Kontakt.


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## ag75 (Dec 23, 2019)

SpitfireSupport said:


> One other fairly common thing, and I'm not suggesting this is your problem specifically OP, is that people expect to be able to have the library on an external disk which they can then use on two different computers. So they install on one computer and everything is fine and then they move to another computer and need to repair, then they move back and need to repair again and so on and so on until they run out of available reauthorisations.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that this isn't a reasonable way to operate but we don't have an elegant way of doing it right now and our best suggestion is to use separate disks for the two computers (I know having the same data in two places is wasteful).
> 
> If you are feeling bold, there is a way of operating on two computers with one hard drive which we have documented here: https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/h...ow-do-I-use-one-hard-drive-with-two-machines-


This would actually be my only complaint. I work all the time from two different computers. Is this something that might be made easier in the future? it was so easy to do with kontakt. Is this an anti-piracy measure? Thanks.


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## redlester (Dec 23, 2019)

Am confused by this thread, I thought it was about the Spirfire stand alone "player" as opposed to Kontakt, but seems to now be more about the Spitfire "app" as used for downloading/installing their products - both stand alone and Kontakt.


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## prodigalson (Dec 23, 2019)

redlester said:


> Am confused by this thread, I thought it was about the Spirfire stand alone "player" as opposed to Kontakt, but seems to now be more about the Spitfire "app" as used for downloading/installing their products - both stand alone and Kontakt.



It’s about both. Because you can’t have one without the other and issues that arise in the “player” can only be resolved online with the “app”.

It’s about Kontakt as a point of comparison.


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## ClefferNotes (Dec 23, 2019)

SpitfireSupport said:


> One other fairly common thing, and I'm not suggesting this is your problem specifically OP, is that people expect to be able to have the library on an external disk which they can then use on two different computers. So they install on one computer and everything is fine and then they move to another computer and need to repair, then they move back and need to repair again and so on and so on until they run out of available reauthorisations.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that this isn't a reasonable way to operate but we don't have an elegant way of doing it right now and our best suggestion is to use separate disks for the two computers (I know having the same data in two places is wasteful).
> 
> If you are feeling bold, there is a way of operating on two computers with one hard drive which we have documented here: https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/h...ow-do-I-use-one-hard-drive-with-two-machines-


Definitely the issue I have run into and something I and perhaps many others would love for this to be resolved at some point, as I feel like I’m acting suspicious by constantly requesting resets whilst moving back and forth between machines, but totally understand that you are working on addressing other things too.

Thanks very much for the honesty and transparency on this all, really nice to see you guys taking this feedback on board!

best regards to you all at SF!


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## jbuhler (Dec 23, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Right now, only HZ Strings, BBCSO and EW Choir use the new player. Plus the free Labs. I would "buy" a Lab library and try it out first to see if it works on your system. Some people have no issues with it. All the other libraries are Kontakt and won't have these issues.


The Originals (Epic Strings, Winds and Brass) and most of the EVOs are now on the player as well.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 23, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> The Originals (Epic Strings, Winds and Brass) and most of the EVOs are now on the player as well.


Yes, someone else pointed out that I missed that also.  Also OPW and Alev's libraries. But not Aperature.


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## 5Lives (Dec 23, 2019)

I for one have never had a repair issue with the Spitfire player. I do however see "Optimize" in the download app for BBCSO, even though I already optimized it. Do I need to optimize it again? My loading times are generally quite fast.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2019)

The amount of issues i read on here regarding Spitfire's player really reminds me of the early days (or years) of PLAY. Good times!

I seriously wish Spitfire the best of luck. It looks like a long road of complaints, troubleshooting, and improvements ahead of them. In the meantime, i hope everyone who is having issues with the player can get their issues sorted out sooner rather than later.


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## Zero&One (Dec 23, 2019)

5Lives said:


> I for one have never had a repair issue with the Spitfire player. I do however see "Optimize" in the download app for BBCSO, even though I already optimized it. Do I need to optimize it again? My loading times are generally quite fast.



I've seen it a few times, even with EW Choir, but I generally ignore it. Open it again and it disappears...


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## babylonwaves (Dec 23, 2019)

5Lives said:


> I for one have never had a repair issue with the Spitfire player. I do however see "Optimize" in the download app for BBCSO, even though I already optimized it. Do I need to optimize it again? My loading times are generally quite fast.


I don't see it for BBCSO. And after the 1.3 update I saw it for HZS but once I've optimized again, but button was gone.


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## HeliaVox (Dec 23, 2019)

SpitfireSupport said:


> If you see the "repair" option in the app, this doesn't mean you need to use it. You only need to repair if you get an error.



Thanks for the clarification!
I haven't been getting errors, so now I know I can stop worrying.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Dec 24, 2019)

5Lives said:


> I for one have never had a repair issue with the Spitfire player. I do however see "Optimize" in the download app for BBCSO, even though I already optimized it. Do I need to optimize it again? My loading times are generally quite fast.


This optimize button comes and goes at its own wish.
One time it is there, next time you open the SF app it is gone, next time it is on another library, next time on several...
Let's say it does not build confidence in the SF app. But it was not a problem yet.


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## Babe (Dec 28, 2019)

'I'm going to throw my computer out the window'.

I'll be there waiting. I can use another computer.


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## AndyP (Jan 14, 2020)

After not using BBCSO on my main computer for a while the Spitfire software is optimizing the libraries for about 2 hours now and has just managed 10%. I don't get it.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 14, 2020)

AndyP said:


> After not using BBCSO on my main computer for a while the Spitfire software is optimizing the libraries for about 2 hours now and has just managed 10%. I don't get it.


Is it the first time you optimise it on this computer? Or have you done it before already?


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## AndyP (Jan 14, 2020)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Is it the first time you optimise it on this computer? Or have you done it before already?


So far not yet on this computer with the hard disk where the complete library is on.
On my MacBook with the reduced library on an extra hard disk this message did not come up yet.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 14, 2020)

AndyP said:


> So far not yet on this computer with the hard disk where the complete library is on.
> On my MacBook with the reduced library on an extra hard disk this message did not come up yet.


The optimization took ages. It speeds up somewhere in the middle of the process. But I have let it run over night.
The good thing is you do this only once and it speeds up loading times significantly.


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## AndyP (Jan 14, 2020)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> The optimization took ages. It speeds up somewhere in the middle of the process. But I have let it run over night.


I'm going to let it go. I wanted to do something with it today, but then I switched to another library.
I'll see if it's ready in the morning. Always check by remote tool if something is still moving.


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## prodigalson (Jan 14, 2020)

SpitfireSupport said:


> One other fairly common thing, and I'm not suggesting this is your problem specifically OP, is that people expect to be able to have the library on an external disk which they can then use on two different computers. So they install on one computer and everything is fine and then they move to another computer and need to repair, then they move back and need to repair again and so on and so on until they run out of available reauthorisations.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that this isn't a reasonable way to operate but we don't have an elegant way of doing it right now and our best suggestion is to use separate disks for the two computers (I know having the same data in two places is wasteful).



Thanks for this. I have since realized that the majority of the problems I am facing with these plugins is after I have moved from one system to another. This is unfortunately just a fact of life in my workflow as I work on my home rig and also in a studio. I also travel frequently and use a pretty beefy mobile rig. The fact that you can't use one drive between two systems without the constant need to repair (and inevitably have to contact support) is unsustainable. I'm going to try the solution you outline in your post but I have to say, considering how vocal and public @christianhenson is about his travel life and clearly detailing how he often moves his sample drive from one system to another I'm shocked that this how the system was designed to function. I'd actually love to hear how he feels about this...unless he just doesn't use SF plugins in his work....


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## 5Lives (Jan 14, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> Thanks for this. I have since realized that the majority of the problems I am facing with these plugins is after I have moved from one system to another. This is unfortunately just a fact of life in my workflow as I work on my home rig and also in a studio. I also travel frequently and use a pretty beefy mobile rig. The fact that you can't use one drive between two systems without the constant need to repair (and inevitably have to contact support) is unsustainable. I'm going to try the solution you outline in your post but I have to say, considering how vocal and public @christianhenson is about his travel life and clearly detailing how he often moves his sample drive from one system to another I'm shocked that this how the system was designed to function. I'd actually love to hear how he feels about this...unless he just doesn't use SF plugins in his work....



Perhaps you should email support with your particular scenario? They are pretty friendly folks. My optimize took maybe 10-15 min but I haven’t had to do it again and it loads the patches very quickly.

Christian owns the company - he may have two licenses for his mobile and studio rigs. Just another wild ass guess - like your’s that he doesn’t use his company’s products.


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## prodigalson (Jan 14, 2020)

5Lives said:


> Perhaps you should email support with your particular scenario? They are pretty friendly folks. My optimize took maybe 10-15 min but I haven’t had to do it again and it loads the patches very quickly.
> 
> Christian owns the company - he may have two licenses for his mobile and studio rigs. Just another wild ass guess - like your’s that he doesn’t use his company’s products.



In fact I have emailed support as mentioned in my original post and as it happens my last email has gone unanswered.


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## Mike Fox (Jan 14, 2020)

I bought Epic Strings (still haven't figured out what's so epic about them), which requires their player. All i gotta say is that I am so glad that's the only Spitfire lib i have that requires it.


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## Dr.Quest (Jan 14, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> I bought Epic Strings (still haven't figured out what's so epic about them), which requires their player. All i gotta say is that I am so glad that's the only Spitfire lib i have that requires it.


Why? Please qualify this statement.


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## AndyP (Jan 15, 2020)

After going remotely to my main computer this morning I saw that the Spitfire application crashed. I don't know if the optimization was completed successfully, but when I open the app again, it doesn't show me that there are any updates or that an optimization is necessary.
Try it out tonight in the hope that everything went smoothly.


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## Frank1985 (Jan 15, 2020)

All the problems I had with the player - crashing mainly - was due to using the 32 bit version on my 64 bit machine. I haven’t had any further issues since switching to the latter.


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## redlester (Jan 15, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> It feels like they r gonna portal their whole library to their new player so to avoid the licensing cost.



Despite the fact that the new Albion, coming out tomorrow, is Kontakt?


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## AndyP (Jan 15, 2020)

Basically the Spitfire Play is ok. It does what it's supposed to do and after some getting used to it I find everything I want to find. Ergonomically and functionally there is room for improvement, no question.
Is it an improvement to Kontakt? No, or better not yet. 
But I have to admit that there are also Kontakt libraries that don't have a very good user interface.

I am not one of those users who like to screw under the hood. I prefer to have a tool that I can use without having to improve the tool first.


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## Mike Fox (Jan 15, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> Why? Please qualify this statement.


Which part?


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## redlester (Jan 15, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> I hope you are right and I’m wrong about this, not just Albion VI.



We if they are still, even now, bringing out Kontakt instruments, and still saying in their FAQ that they will be doing so, I don't see how it can be assumed that they will go through the massive task of moving everything to the new player. Not saying it will never happen but I don't think it can be taken as read, as many seem to think.

What they don't seem to be doing is releasing any new libraries that are Kontakt 'full' version. I don't know Spitfire's chronology that well, but what was the last such release? HZ Percussion?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 15, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> Hopefully they dramatically update and upgrade the Spitfire player to make more sense for composers. Too much wasted space and poor layout design that could easily be fixed in a newer free updated version. I can see why a designer would have made that design but it’s not composer friendly at all and this is not a fashion conscious Burberry apparel product for the haut monde.



Just goes to show how opinions vary. As a composer, the player makes sense to me, I really like it and it works exactly as I expected it to. That being said, I'm not a "tweaker". I like the simple, no-nonsense applications, and this one (and EW Play) are in that category for me.


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## Alex Fraser (Jan 15, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Just goes to show how opinions vary. As a composer, the player makes sense to me, I really like it and it works exactly as I expected it to. That being said, I'm not a "tweaker". I like the simple, no-nonsense applications, and this one (and EW Play) are in that category for me.


Yup.
_"Lots of flexible options"_ can also be _"unnecessary distractions."_
And _"lack of features"_ can also be _"a distraction free zone."_

I hate tweaking in plugins too. I'll do it in the DAW, thanks!


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## Sarah Mancuso (Jan 15, 2020)

The ideal scenario is to not need to tweak under the hood, but sometimes it's necessary. It can be a nuisance when you have to go behind the scenes to adjust something in Kontakt's patch editor to work around a bug or limitation.... but it's much _more _of a nuisance to not be able to, because then you end up having to do a far hackier workaround, if you can even work around the problem at all.

Personally, though, my main complaints with the SF player are still GUI bloat (why do I need to click through so many pages?! it occupies half of my display and doesn't even do anything with most of the space!) and slow loading times compared to Kontakt.


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## Mike Fox (Jan 15, 2020)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> The ideal scenario is to not need to tweak under the hood, but sometimes it's necessary. It can be a nuisance when you have to go behind the scenes to adjust something in Kontakt's patch editor to work around a bug or limitation.... but it's much _more _of a nuisance to not be able to, because then you end up having to do a far hackier workaround, if you can even work around the problem at all.


This!


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## jbuhler (Jan 15, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> I would much prefer free addons to a product I already own as they did with HZS, though that’s already license free, especially given its hefty cost than repackaging portions of something I own which is what I think Epic Strings, which is good but is derived from Albion One, is.
> 
> Hopefully they dramatically update and upgrade the Spitfire player to make more sense for composers. Too much wasted space and poor layout design that could easily be fixed in a newer free updated version. I can see why a designer would have made that design but it’s not composer friendly at all and this is not a fashion conscious Burberry apparel product for the haut monde.
> 
> ...


The Originals series is derived from the recordings for Albion I, not Albion One, and those who owned Albion I did receive Originals for free. In general, I don't recall having to pay for an upgrade with SF unless the newly packaged library contained new sample content. And often, as with the HZ Strings, they offer substantial additions without charge.

My understanding on the move to the player is that it had little to do with paying the licensing fee to NI. Instead it had to do with better copy protection, the ability to distribute Labs and low cost products like the Originals series that would have required the full version of Kontakt, the ability to control the development cycle of their products (not be dependent on NI to fix things they want in Kontakt), and likely the desire not to share its sales data with NI, who is also, of course, a competitor.


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## 5Lives (Jan 15, 2020)

Some ridiculous misinformation in this thread (propagated by the same usual suspects that continue to try and smear Spitfire - it’s like staypuft all over again). I mostly feel bad for new visitors to VI-C who think this is true.

Spitfire has said they will continue to make Kontakt libraries. Epic Strings is from the original Albion l, NOT Albion ONE. It is free for legacy owners so nobody had to re-buy samples. 

And if I join in on the rampant speculation, I would wager for 95% of composers / customers, they don’t need to go behind the scenes and tweak anything so the new player is appropriately designed. Why would Spitfire design for the 5% right out of the gate?


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## Alex Fraser (Jan 15, 2020)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Personally, though, my main complaints with the SF player are still GUI bloat (why do I need to click through so many pages?! it occupies half of my display and doesn't even do anything with most of the space!) and slow loading times compared to Kontakt.


Yeah, the click rate could be cut, granted.
Worth pointing out that (Logic users at least) can resize the plugin to fill the screen or down to the size of stamp with no significant loss in graphical quality. If that helps you get some real estate back?


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## jbuhler (Jan 15, 2020)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> The ideal scenario is to not need to tweak under the hood, but sometimes it's necessary. It can be a nuisance when you have to go behind the scenes to adjust something in Kontakt's patch editor to work around a bug or limitation.... but it's much _more _of a nuisance to not be able to, because then you end up having to do a far hackier workaround, if you can even work around the problem at all.
> 
> Personally, though, my main complaints with the SF player are still GUI bloat (why do I need to click through so many pages?! it occupies half of my display and doesn't even do anything with most of the space!) and slow loading times compared to Kontakt.


I don't find the SF Player libraries (HZS, EWC) I have are slow to load, but the browsing system to get the right patch loaded up—Egads! As they add more titles, Labs is becoming increasingly difficult to work with unless you have it set up in a template. 

And then there's having to go through multiple pages to set up your mics. Just a very weird decision. Having articulations spread across multiple pages doesn't make a lot of sense either, but in that case, at least, most of us have keyswitching set up to work around that. But the mic stuff...


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## Sarah Mancuso (Jan 15, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> Yeah, the click rate could be cut, granted.
> Worth pointing out that (Logic users at least) can resize the plugin to fill the screen or down to the size of stamp with no significant loss in graphical quality. If that helps you get some real estate back?


Reducing the scale to 85% helps it take up less space, but at any size, half of the plugin window is still occupied by whitespace and an unlabeled knob I never use. I'd like it to be smaller, but right now I can only do that by making the controls in the bottom half unreadably tiny. I just want to condense the useless upper half.


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## Sarah Mancuso (Jan 15, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I don't find the SF Player libraries (HZS, EWC) I have are slow to load, but the browsing system to get the right patch loaded up—Egads! As they add more titles, Labs is becoming increasingly difficult to work with unless you have it set up in a template.
> 
> And then there's having to go through multiple pages to set up your mics. Just a very weird decision. Having articulations spread across multiple pages doesn't make a lot of sense either, but in that case, at least, most of us have keyswitching set up to work around that. But the mic stuff...


Oh yeah, the patch browsing system is a nuisance. For SF Player instruments with lots of patches, like LABS, I tend to just forget they even exist because going into the browser to find something I want is such a workflow killer.

Agreed 100% about the unnecessary paging system for microphones, as well. I own Angular String Evolutions and if not for all the whitespace, the mic positions could easily all fit onscreen at once.


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## jbuhler (Jan 15, 2020)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Reducing the scale to 85% helps it take up less space, but at any size, half of the plugin window is still occupied by whitespace and an unlabeled knob I never use. I'd like it to be smaller, but right now I can only do that by making the controls in the bottom half unreadably tiny. I just want to condense the useless upper half.


Hey, doesn't everybody love to have the built-in reverb on a big knob? Practically, I don't know why that space can't be converted into a series of sliders like the left hand space for expression and modwheel where you could have all your CCs visible. I would love to be able to change to that view as an option. If they have to have a big knob, why not put CC1 on it, since that is the main control for almost every SF library?


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## Alex Fraser (Jan 15, 2020)

I agree with a lot of the opinions regarding the player. There are things that can be improved, but..

I don't spend that much time looking at it. Once it's templated up, articulation maps set, patches saved etc, there's not much reason to dive back in, except to tweak mics.
EVERY library I have fails somehow in GUI design. I have some absolute howlers in my collection. (The Logic stock stuff is an oasis of calm in comparison.)
The sun will come up tomorrow.


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## Sarah Mancuso (Jan 15, 2020)

I should also say that I don't use big templates. I add things as I need them. There's no scenario in which I'm going to have every patch of every LABS instrument preloaded and waiting in my sequencer, and as such, I still have to deal with the player's GUI and browser.

If I could have anything I wanted, my ideal patch-browsing solution would be for Spitfire to provide .fxb patch files for everything so that we can just drag and drop patches from our DAW's browser directly into the sequencer, without needing to touch the plugin's internal browser at all. I generate those myself for Kontakt libraries and other plugins, and it's been an absolute godsend for workflow, but the SF Player makes it enough of a hassle that I haven't bothered yet.


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## paulthomson (Jan 15, 2020)

Hey everyone - we do appreciate the feedback here re the UI - and an alternate Pro view is on our roadmap. 

We did extensive user testing with all abilities of end user to arrive at the current balance of clarity, space and intuitive ability to be able to dive straight in. 

Yes - it might not be the revise way you would lay things out - but it was extensively researched and considered in order to be max inclusive. 

I can’t be precise about the number who click the spanner as I think that may be protected info but I can indicate that it’s significantly lower than the figure being considered above...

All best!

Paul


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## Sarah Mancuso (Jan 15, 2020)

paulthomson said:


> Hey everyone - we do appreciate the feedback here re the UI - and an alternate Pro view is on our roadmap.


This is good news, thank you!


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## Dr.Quest (Jan 15, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> Which part? --


Seems , due to the thread title I would have thought it would have been obvious, but -- _"All i gotta say is that I am so glad that's the only Spitfire lib i have that requires it."_
This implies you don't like it but you don't say why?


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## Mike Fox (Jan 15, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> Seems , due to the thread title I would have thought it would have been obvious, but -- _"All i gotta say is that I am so glad that's the only Spitfire lib i have that requires it."_
> This implies you don't like it but you don't say why?


Due to the amount of valid complaints in this thread, I thought it would have been obvious.


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## Dr.Quest (Jan 15, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> Due to the amount of valid complaints in this thread, I thought it would have been obvious.


I use the Labs Epic strings and Brass and Woodwind Evolutions and don't have any of these problems at all. Mac OS High Sierra. I really like the player myself.


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## jbuhler (Jan 15, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> Due to the amount of valid complaints in this thread, I thought it would have been obvious.


To be honest, mostly I don't notice it other than when loading new patches or figuring out microphones and such. And it's not like I avoid instruments that use the player (though perhaps the Labs get less use because it's clumsy finding the patch you want). There are still things I would like changed beyond the browser. One thing I would like is an ability to stretch the samples out of range without having to create a second instance. I would like the ability to load multis. I would like a standalone app. I would like a mixer view that shows all the microphones on a single page. I would like a view where all the articulations are visible on a single page. I would like the big knob to be meaningful and not suggest to me that the thing I really need to do is fiddle with the built-in reverb.


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## Mike Fox (Jan 15, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> To be honest, mostly I don't notice it other than when loading new patches or figuring out microphones and such. And it's not like I avoid instruments that use the player (though perhaps the Labs get less use because it's clumsy finding the patch you want). There are still things I would like changed beyond the browser. One thing I would like is an ability to stretch the samples out of range without having to create a second instance. I would like the ability to load multis. I would like a standalone app. I would like a mixer view that shows all the microphones on a single page. I would like a view where all the articulations are visible on a single page. I would like the big knob to be meaningful and not suggest to me that the thing I really need to do is fiddle with the built-in reverb.


100%

Really hoping most of those issues get resolved in the "Pro" version.


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## PaulBrimstone (Jan 15, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> 100%
> 
> Really hoping most of those issues get resolved in the "Pro" version.


And as a proud spanner clicker, I third it. I'm sure UsTwo are spiffing designers, but given the issues raised by many here, I have to wonder if any of the UX people are actual _musicians_.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 15, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I would like the big knob to be meaningful and not suggest to me that the thing I really need to do is fiddle with the built-in reverb.



It's more than just reverb for many patches. For example, if you click on the centre, it gives you the option to use for parameters like tightness.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 15, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> I find that Paul and Christian are excellent at making sure their software titles are polished, honed and functioning at a top professional level because they themselves use their software as hired composers for film and tv productions.



Err...I thought you said they should dramatically update and upgrade the Spitfire player to make more sense for composers. And the the player isn't _that_ new.  Labs has been around for awhile now.


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## Peter Satera (Jan 15, 2020)

Personally I'm finding the player nice to work with. Yes, it has a few hiccups here and there but everything does.

To me the main things are that clicking through many menus, whether it's mics, access vibrato, or even see more articulations (like Kontakt), is something that could be refined for 'Pro Player', *reduce the amount of clicks *for the user, it will increase our productivity. (A purge function too would be awesome.)

Regarding the Pro View, it a nice sounding addition. If a pro view is a button which changes the player into a new GUI hopefully this doesn't expand the CPU/ram footprint of the instance. As if it did I'd rather have a separate 'pro' vst to load. For labs, simple is fine. But for large libs like HZ string loads of control with minimum menu hopping is beneficial.

Also just want to say, not complaining, just my thoughts on possible avenues for the player.


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## europa_io (Jan 16, 2020)

No problems here. I prefer the Spitfire player so much more compared to Kontakt!


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## Sub3OneDay (Jan 17, 2020)

My only complaint is that I can’t purge the library samples from memory - so the player becomes a resource hog very quickly. 
To be fair/honest I’ve not updated for a while as don’t have SSD space for the latest update to HZS so this may now be available as a function but it would be a welcome edition I’m sure to all of us not using a massive multiple VEPro server rig!

Other than that, no complaints.


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## kimgaboury (Jan 17, 2020)

What does it do that Kontakt could not let them do? In other words, why did they switch to their own software?


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## Peter Satera (Jan 17, 2020)

kimgaboury said:


> What does it do that Kontakt could not let them do? In other words, why did they switch to their own software?



Stop piracy at this point on their major libraries.


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## AndyP (Feb 23, 2020)

AndyP said:


> This only happened to me when I swapped hard drives between computers. Depending on the manufacturer. Since I use separate hard disks for all my computers I don't have this problem anymore.


After a while, I have to correct myself... it's happening on my MacBook. And only there, not on my studio computer.
I hope Spitfire reconsiders his copy protection for the new player. It's not very trustworthy to have to rap so often. Wouldn't be a problem if the number of attempts wasn't limited. Doesn't make sense to me and carries a risk of unusability when you're on the road.


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## mariusch (Feb 23, 2020)

BBC sounds really nice. However, it is completely useless to use because of the repair function. Must contact spitfire every time. And then it takes several days for you to get an answer. Now it has not been possible to use bbc for over a week. So it is impossible to use this library. You also never know if the library works or not. So I can't recommend using this library in a big project.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 23, 2020)

I'm currently resetting and reinstalling the LABS products. I did test the first one after doing it and it seemed to work. I did go through all the locations for the VST files and deleted the dll, vst3 files and cleared the presets before doing the resets. Now I am redownloading and reinstalling everything. I realized it was useless to think about buying BBCSO if I couldn't get the LABS to work.


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## MartinH. (Feb 23, 2020)

Peter Satera said:


> Stop piracy at this point on their major libraries.



What good is that if legitimate potential buyers now don't buy it because of the new player?


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## jbuhler (Feb 23, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> It's more than just reverb for many patches. For example, if you click on the centre, it gives you the option to use for parameters like tightness.


Sure, you can map it to other things like tightness, but do any of them warrant that much attention and that much real estate?


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## rgames (Feb 23, 2020)

I've also had a lot of trouble with the SF player and the EW Choir. I think this screen grab from the support page pretty much sums it up:






To be fair, the library actually worked when I submitted the last request. It just showed up as unauthorized or in need of repair (or some error like that). So only four times in the last year or so have I not been able to use the EW choir that I paid for, not the five shown in the image. Yeah. That's much better.

They're following the same progressoin that VSL and EWQL followed: first make libraries, then create a custom sample player. Only VSL got it right from the start. I think the most recent version of PLAY is ok, but that took something like 7 years and likely cost EWQL a lot of business.

I and other have been saying for years that other developers should just license the VSL player. It's the best sampler for orchestral libraries by far.

And it works 100% of the time!

rgames


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## Fleer (Feb 23, 2020)

europa_io said:


> No problems here. I prefer the Spitfire player so much more compared to Kontakt!


Same here.


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## jbuhler (Feb 23, 2020)

Fleer said:


> Same here.


Can’t say I prefer it, but I don’t mind it and have never had any of these bug issues.


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## Fleer (Feb 23, 2020)

I guess my load is more lightweight in comparison to others’ templates so the rather straightforward and visually appealing GUI of the Spitfire app speaks to me more than a somewhat outdated looking and feeling Kontakt.


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## jbuhler (Feb 23, 2020)

Fleer said:


> I guess my load is more lightweight in comparison to others’ templates so the rather straightforward and visually appealing GUI of the Spitfire app speaks to me more than a somewhat outdated looking and feeling Kontakt.


You also aren't able to go under the hood and tweak it in a serious way, so it makes you focus on other things to draw the music from the instrument. That can be surprisingly liberating!


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## Peter Satera (Feb 24, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> What good is that if legitimate potential buyers now don't buy it because of the new player?



This is the trade off currently, but the hope is that there is no issue with the player as it's matures.


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## MartinH. (Feb 24, 2020)

Peter Satera said:


> This is the trade off currently, but the hope is that there is no issue with the player as it's matures.



Ok, assuming they eventually reach the point where the player is at least as good and as stable as Kontakt, then they still have to get people to "believe it", and it is still unproven what percentage of people who were pirating their Kontakt libraries would actually buy their player libraries if there was no easy way to pirate them. 

I understand saying "Fuck all the drawbacks, we want to be independant from NI even at a high cost, because that dependancy is a potentially neck-breaking risk looming over our heads". I might make that choice/investment too in their position. But just as anti-piracy measure it's a huge gamble imho, one that I wouldn't make.


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## purple (Feb 24, 2020)

I didn't realize pirating was an issue with big kontakt libraries. If it was popular enough for me to have heard about it I probably would have done it a good amount myself by now. I suspect it was more than that, in that kontakt limits their ability to be flexible with sales and how they package things perhaps. One example of evidence for this is OT's sine player allowing them to sell instruments a-la-carte. Maybe they could have done that all along but it seems like that's the case.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 24, 2020)

purple said:


> I didn't realize pirating was an issue with big kontakt libraries. If it was popular enough for me to have heard about it I probably would have done it a good amount myself by now. I suspect it was more than that, in that kontakt limits their ability to be flexible with sales and how they package things perhaps. One example of evidence for this is OT's sine player allowing them to sell instruments a-la-carte. Maybe they could have done that all along but it seems like that's the case.


I actually think it was a mic issue. Embertone mentioned that they had trouble with getting all the mics into a single Kontakt instrument for Walker, hence the separate instruments for each mic. Some kind of limit to the Kontakt engine. You notice that the HZ Strings and BBCSO both have a lot of mic options. I'm wondering if that is part of the reason for it. 

I also wonder if getting an instrument approved through NI with a serial number is an issue. I've heard it can take time. I may be totally wrong about it though. This is all speculation on my part. I can see why 8Dio doesn't bother though. They have a whole lot of inexpensive libraries. They don't have to buy a bunch of serial numbers before having a sale in the hopes they sell the product. Things like that can break a business.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 24, 2020)

Peter Satera said:


> This is the trade off currently, but the hope is that there is no issue with the player as it's matures.



The player works as advertised, too many complainers. It’s the exact same BS with EW Play....it works, but too many people throw it under the bus.


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## AEF (Feb 24, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> The player works as advertised, too many complainers. It’s the exact same BS with EW Play....it works, but too many people throw it under the bus.



it works but it loads slowly, eats cpu, and the articulation management is horrendous.


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## jbuhler (Feb 24, 2020)

AEF said:


> it works but it loads slowly, eats cpu, and the articulation management is horrendous.


I have HZS and EWC, both of which use the SF Player, as well as the Labs instruments. I haven't found any of this to be the case. For me, it takes about the same amount of time to load as Kontakt, I've noticed no particular large use of CPU, and its articulation management is fine, once it's loaded into the plugin. I will say that I don't like the patch browser at all. And I find it mystifying that they don't have it set up so that you can use UACC or UACC KS out of the box.


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## AndyP (Feb 24, 2020)

My repair function has now worked again after Spitifire reset it. Now I notice that the violas staccato and spiccato are identical, the spiccatos play exactly the same samples as the staccatos ... a new surprise. 

Celli as well ... Either I didn't notice before or this is new...

Violins and the Leaders are fine.


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## CGR (Feb 24, 2020)

Went to load up a few SF Player based LABS Instruments in a project yesterday and was faced with numerous Error #1 & Error #5 messages. Went through the repair & update/reinstall process 3 times with no joy. Gave up in the end and found another Kontakt instrument instead. No fun. I'm glad I haven't invested many dollars in the Spitfire Player based instruments at this stage.


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## Peter Satera (Feb 24, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Ok, assuming they eventually reach the point where the player is at least as good and as stable as Kontakt, then they still have to get people to "believe it", and it is still unproven what percentage of people who were pirating their Kontakt libraries would actually buy their player libraries if there was no easy way to pirate them.
> 
> I understand saying "Fuck all the drawbacks, we want to be independant from NI even at a high cost, because that dependancy is a potentially neck-breaking risk looming over our heads". I might make that choice/investment too in their position. But just as anti-piracy measure it's a huge gamble imho, one that I wouldn't make.



Well, if people say they have no issues, and it continues then that will give the boost in its reputation, and those will invest in it. The point isn't to get pirates to buy, but it's to stop them from stealing, which devalues a product. 

Also, Kontakt isn't a sound bet either. I spent 8 months troubleshooting with NI, for no resolve to be found with latency/streaming issues and for it only to be overcome by the purchase of k6.

Spitfire, like OT can also tailor the player to their product needs. We've seen from OT what potential benefits this has. 😃


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## Peter Satera (Feb 24, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> The player works as advertised, too many complainers. It’s the exact same BS with EW Play....it works, but too many people throw it under the bus.



For me the player is very stable. Using HZ strings is great. A few other things would be awesome, purge, easier menu accessing, etc. Spitfire have mentioned an advanced version is coming. We'll see what's in store!


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## jononotbono (Feb 24, 2020)

I wish it was multi timbral.


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## rgames (Feb 24, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> The player works as advertised


Well then I mised the part where they advertised "You sometimes won't be able to use your libraries because of licensing issues."

It's kind of like the Apple Maps problem: you can market your way around things that don't have technical metrics - like a "fantastic user experience". But as soon as something has a clear definition of "good" vs "bad", you better be sure you have technically competent people doing it. It doesn't matter how much branding you do, if the map takes you to the wrong spot, the "fantastic user experience" of getting that bad information doesn't make up for it.

The VSL team relies a lot more on technical "cleanliness" of their products to make sales, so doing the technical work to develop a sampler is not that far of a reach, and their sampler is very good. EW and Spitfire rely a lot more on branding and, therefore, have much more of the Apple Maps problem.

Again - any developer reading this thread and thinking of making a sampler - license the one from VSL!

rgames


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## Fleer (Feb 24, 2020)

Sadly that VSL look is not “my cup of tea”. I know this sounds highly subjective, which it surely is. And I quite like the look and GUI of the Spitfire app, probably because I’ve been a fan of the designers (UsTwo, the guys behind Monument Valley) since quite some time. And also because I’ve had no problems myself. Touch wood


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## purple (Feb 26, 2020)

I don't know if the version that is shipped with the free labs stuff is different than that of the paid spitfire player libraries, but although the labs things are neat little niche patches, the player for them felt like what can only be described as "plastic". Like if it were a hardware rack mounted piece of gear, the whole thing would be made of cheap plastic except the screws. I like the spitfire sound sometimes, but I can't see myself investing in that player any time soon. Maybe OT will redeem themselves on that one.


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## kitekrazy (Feb 26, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> The player works as advertised, too many complainers. It’s the exact same BS with EW Play....it works, but too many people throw it under the bus.



This is the kind of mentality I'd expect on Steam forums. "If it works for me.....".


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## kitekrazy (Feb 26, 2020)

rgames said:


> Well then I mised the part where they advertised "You sometimes won't be able to use your libraries because of licensing issues."
> 
> It's kind of like the Apple Maps problem: you can market your way around things that don't have technical metrics - like a "fantastic user experience". But as soon as something has a clear definition of "good" vs "bad", you better be sure you have technically competent people doing it. It doesn't matter how much branding you do, if the map takes you to the wrong spot, the "fantastic user experience" of getting that bad information doesn't make up for it.
> 
> ...



Soon proprietary players will equal the amount of individual download managers. I get why they are doing it. In house is more cost effective than paying a player fee I guess. 

I don't see VSL allowing to use their sampler.


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## AndyP (Feb 26, 2020)

AndyP said:


> My repair function has now worked again after Spitifire reset it. Now I notice that the violas staccato and spiccato are identical, the spiccatos play exactly the same samples as the staccatos ... a new surprise.
> 
> Celli as well ... Either I didn't notice before or this is new...
> 
> Violins and the Leaders are fine.


The SA support confirms to me today that this issue was reported by several users. At the same time they explain that it is the nature of these recordings and cannot be solved.
This is crazy and makes me a little speechless.


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## Robert_G (Feb 26, 2020)

Dont worry. If Spitfire updates their new player as fast as they update their VIs....it will be fixed in no time  

On another note they will be releasing 3 CUTTING EDGE NEVER BEFORE SEEN NEXT LEVEL libraries before Easter. So amazing youll never need anything else again....


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## MartinH. (Feb 26, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> On another note they will be releasing 3 CUTTING EDGE NEVER BEFORE SEEN NEXT LEVEL libraries before Easter. So amazing youll never need anything else again....




Will they be game-changing though?


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## AndyP (Feb 26, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Will they be game-changing though?


So BBCSO is a game changer for me. But I don't think in the Spitfire sense.


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## Fleer (Feb 26, 2020)

kitekrazy said:


> This is the kind of mentality I'd expect on Steam forums. "If it works for me.....".


Or: “If it doesn’t work for me ...”


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 26, 2020)

kitekrazy said:


> This is the kind of mentality I'd expect on Steam forums. "If it works for me.....".



It works as advertised, there’s no smoke and mirrors here. Period.


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## Peter Satera (Feb 27, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> . Period.


Triple period...


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## DS_Joost (Feb 27, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> A pro version is coming so who knows what that adds in functionality and form.


Yeah I also remember Play Pro...


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## gussunkri (Feb 28, 2020)

AndyP said:


> The SA support confirms to me today that this issue was reported by several users. At the same time they explain that it is the nature of these recordings and cannot be solved.
> This is crazy and makes me a little speechless.


What do you mean? I just tried the viola. The staccato and the spiccato do not null and they do not sound the same to me. Are you saying that one is a time stretched version of the other or something else?


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## Manaberry (Feb 28, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> A pro version is coming so who knows what that adds in functionality and form.



It should have been there last year already. But if they migrate SSO to their new player, expect less features and more bugs :D


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## AndyP (Feb 28, 2020)

gussunkri said:


> What do you mean? I just tried the viola. The staccato and the spiccato do not null and they do not sound the same to me. Are you saying that one is a time stretched version of the other or something else?


I cannot detect any or only a very slight difference in sound. It makes no difference which variation I choose, but compared to the violins, for example, it is not spiccato.
I can compare this with my other string librarys and in all others there is a clear difference between spiccato and staccato.

In my case there is no difference between spiccato and staccato of violas and cellos. 
It doesn't sound right because it is the same articulation in sound and behaviour.

Maybe someone can post an example of the viola and cellos spiccatos compared to the staccatos. Maybe it is just because of my BBCSO installation!


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## brenneisen (Feb 28, 2020)

AndyP said:


> Maybe someone can post an example of the viola and cellos spiccatos compared to the staccatos.



someone like you? post an audio comparison for us so we can hear what you're hearing


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## AndyP (Feb 28, 2020)

brenneisen said:


> someone like you? post an audio comparison for us so we can hear what you're hearing


... or what I don't hear... if I find the time today...


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## lokotus (Feb 28, 2020)

"Error #1" here too and a I am just mostly using the labs


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## GNP (Feb 28, 2020)

That's partly the problem with bespoke programming....Hans Zimmer also experiences hickups in his original software made by Mark Wherry, but because it's only RCP who uses it, there's not really a need to answer to the public, except members of RCP themselves.

Whereas Spitfire though.....no matter how cool it is to have a "custom" sampler.....I'd rather they also just stick to Kontakt.


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## Alex Fraser (Feb 28, 2020)

LOL! It always ends well when the audio comparisons start coming...


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## Zero&One (Feb 28, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> LOL! It always ends well when the audio comparisons start coming...



I've been burnt several times. I'll sit this one out


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## brenneisen (Feb 28, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> I've been burnt several times. I'll sit this one out



you better, don't ever think I'll forget your Iceni bad examples


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