# Cubase Midi CC controller (and more ?)



## Mithnaur (Jun 29, 2021)

Well, this subject has already been dealt with several times, so I apologize in advance.
But if I wish to tackle it again, it is because in spite of all that I could read and look at, I remain a little lost.
The questions being often approached under a different angle or problematic, I would like to restart it with my own vision.
Hoping that the answers can always complement the subject for others 

Let's summarize:

1) I work in Cubase and I would need a midi controller (not keyboard) for all the CC stuff, including the classic expression, dynamics, vibrato and possibly others.

Currently I use my Korg Radias as a midi controller.
The big advantage of the RADIAS is its flexibility of use since I can easily reassign each button or almost.
And I have moreover selection buttons which allow me for example to switch from one articulation to another with an expression map.
As it is a synth, it has a lot of knobs, always useful, but no faders, which I miss a lot. And despite everything it is not at all dedicated to be a midi controller. On the other hand I have to use default drivers, because the korg drivers are too old and don't work well.

2) I'm not really looking to control the mixing part of Cubase, but if I can do it, it would be a plus!
On the other hand I would like to be able to control the midi track controls (solo/mute, open the plugin, open the keyboard editor ...) or the basic DAW functions (playback, recording, cursor movement etc.)

3) I would like a product that is easy to configure, well integrated with Cubase. I'm a bit apprehensive about all these models that seem to work well only if you spend weeks configuring them.

4) I would like to be able to set up knobs/faders on the controller.

5) I would like to have 100mm faders to have the finest possible resolution in dynamics/expression.

6) Big question: I would like motorized faders. Because a fader that automatically returns to its level with an automation track is quite nice. But often I get the impression from what I've read that motorized faders can only control the mix, not the CCs.

From everything I've read, there are few models that fit these needs, which is why many people want to make them themselves.
A lot of products are not made anymore, or are hard to find.
- BFC2000 ? => Can be found second hand, but its use with a W10 and a recent Cubase may not be very reliable ?
- Behringer X-Touch ? => Apart from the cheap quality, it seems to be one of the most successful and versatile models of its kind in this price range.
- Avid Artist Mix ? => I've seen several composers having it in their equipment and it seems that you can find some second hand at acceptable prices. But the ethernet interface worries me a bit
- Avid S1 (or Eucon is it?) => Probably a bit too expensive and professional for me, but I'd still be curious to know if it's really what you should aim for
- Icon Platform m+ ? => looks good but I hear a lot of owners are complaining about this equipment, among others because of the unstable configuration.
- JL Cooper Fader Master Pro ? => a priori one of the best of its kind, but not far from 900€ !
- Presonus Faderport 8 ? => A bit bulky and not sure what it can or cannot do but looked good.
- I had seen the Softube console 1 Fader => which I think is great, but not for CC :(
- Asparion D400 => I thought it was pretty nice but I thought I saw a lot of reservations about it.
- SSL UF8 ? => A bit too expensive and professional I guess for my needs.
- Steinberg CC121 ? => Really cool but why the hell not one fader extension possible ?

7) I would also need a small mixing console, and I was wondering if there are some affordable models that can do both.
For example the Tascam model 12 seems to be close to that but again I don't know if the CC's are controllable.

8) For the price question it doesn't matter, I'll make an idea later if it's worth it or not.

If some people found their happiness with the same kind of needs ... I'm interested in advice.


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## holywilly (Jul 1, 2021)

https://nakedboards.org/



Rocking this fader for over an year, one of the best.


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## Mithnaur (Jul 1, 2021)

holywilly said:


> https://nakedboards.org/
> 
> 
> 
> Rocking this fader for over an year, one of the best.


Thanks for the link!
Indeed I had already seen these controllers recommended on a video and some threads. The minimalist aspect can be an advantage.
I'll keep them as a valid option (especially at this price) while waiting to know if there are others.
I understand on the steinberg forums that motorized faders for midi cc's are a real demand, but for now the options are limited.


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## holywilly (Jul 1, 2021)

I've been using tons of MIDI CC faders back in the days and finally settle down with Nakedboard's MC-8 for couple reasons:
1. I find the best fader length for MIDI CC is 60mm, 100mm is way too long to ride CC message while playing.
2. MC-8's faders have a little bit of resistant that has the feeling when riding the motorized faders.
3. It's so easy to assign CC parameters to each fader via Nakedboard's website.

The only complaint I have about MC-8 is the form factor is too thick for my liking.

I had used JL Cooper's Fadermaster Pro, ICON Platform+, BFC2000, Avid S1 and iPad with app.


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 1, 2021)

It's more expensive, but the Artist Mix using Quick Controls and automation is the way to go for this. 

It; is just so slick when compared to anything else.

Eucon is amazingly powerful and motorised CC control is something I wouldn't want to live without anymore. The ethernet thing is simple to set up. Search for posts from Guy Rowland on how it all works...


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## Nico5 (Jul 1, 2021)

One thing to potentially also keep in mind is, that Steinberg let it be known in the Cubase forums that a new midi remote API is in the works.


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 1, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> One thing to potentially also keep in mind is, that Steinberg let it be known in the Cubase forums that a new midi remote API is in the works.


I can't wait for 2029 !


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## Mithnaur (Jul 2, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> It's more expensive, but the Artist Mix using Quick Controls and automation is the way to go for this.
> 
> It; is just so slick when compared to anything else.
> 
> Eucon is amazingly powerful and motorised CC control is something I wouldn't want to live without anymore. The ethernet thing is simple to set up. Search for posts from Guy Rowland on how it all works...


It seems that everyone who manages to use motorized fader surfaces for CC Midi does so by using automation rather than the midi data written in each track.
I admit that so far I have mostly used midi data, being a little less comfortable with automation.
But if I understand the threads on the subject correctly, this would be a good reason to get started?
Same with the quick controls which I haven't used much so far.
Basically, if you want to motorize the CCs, even with the surfaces that work well, you have to use an alternative to the data midi, right?
Unless the X-Touch is capable of it?

It's clear that despite its price, the Artist Mix seems to be a good device for those who have it.
I really like the track display above the faders.

I saw that there is an Artist Mix V2. Big differences?


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 2, 2021)

The new version is the Avid Artist S1, and its fabulous. But so is the price. 

I managed to get a brand new Avid Artist Mix for £ 640.00 from SXPro in the UK. By the time you've added a tablet, the S1 will be double that.

Plus the fact the Artist Mix is a better size being more compact.


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## Mithnaur (Jul 2, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> The new version is the Avid Artist S1, and its fabulous. But so is the price.
> 
> I managed to get a brand new Avid Artist Mix for £ 640.00 from SXPro in the UK. By the time you've added a tablet, the S1 will be double that.
> 
> Plus the fact the Artist Mix is a better size being more compact.


Interesting indeed the price on sxpro! (provided that they don't add a small tax to France ^^)
One thing missing from the Artist Mix is a scroll wheel 
Anyway I'll add it to the serious options.
Even if I wonder if the price is really worth it for my use. Would there be a risk of getting an older version that would not work as well if I find a used one? Or is it possible to update it?

Of course, I imagine that the quality makes the price difference with an X-Touch or a Plateform M+ ...


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## Nico5 (Jul 2, 2021)

Mithnaur said:


> I admit that so far I have mostly used midi data, being a little less comfortable with automation.
> But if I understand the threads on the subject correctly, this would be a good reason to get started?
> Same with the quick controls which I haven't used much so far.
> Basically, if you want to motorize the CCs, even with the surfaces that work well, you have to use an alternative to the data midi, right?


Interacting with the plugins via VST automation allows for a generally superior experience.

A couple of advantages that stand out:

better resolution/precision
bi-directional communication pretty much guaranteed
Especially the bi-directional communication matters for automated faders and displaying current plugin settings on the hardware controller.

Many great plugins only receive midi control messages, but do not send them. But they will receive AND send VST automation messages.

And Cubase (and any other host that) facilitates bi-directional midi to vst automation communication makes it a much better experience for all of those plugins that don't send midi.


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## Mithnaur (Jul 26, 2021)

Since your last advice, I've been more serious about replacing MIDI CC data with automation.
And keep an eye on used Artist Mixes. Since for the moment I don't really have any other candidates for MIDI CC automation with 100mm motorized faders.
On the other hand, I notice that there are no more drivers available (but maybe I've looked wrong).
For those who have one, what Avid drivers and software do you use for Windows 10 + Cubase?


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## easyrider (Jul 26, 2021)

Faderport 16 here…works great in Cubase and midi mode allows CC control


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 26, 2021)

If you want it for mixing and track balance (aka not MIDI CC), Console 1 Fader. 10 100m faders, compact size, solo / mute capability, grouping capability, transport controls, Sends control, PLUS you get the option of adding that console saturation to each track + LP / HP if you want.


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## Mithnaur (Jul 26, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If you want it for mixing and track balance (aka not MIDI CC), Console 1 Fader. 10 100m faders, compact size, solo / mute capability, grouping capability, transport controls, Sends control, PLUS you get the option of adding that console saturation to each track + LP / HP if you want.


Indeed, when I saw some videos about the 1 fader console, I thought that it was exactly what I needed.
But it's not the case because the mixing part is not my priority need.
What I'm looking for are really motorized 100mm faders for MIDI CC / instrument control. And the 1-fader console doesn't seem to be made for that at all (too bad).
From what I understand, for those who use MIDI CC data directly on the tracks, there are only few controllers with non-motorized 100mm faders.
A priori, the use of motorized faders for MIDI CC data is not really possible.
So it seems more appropriate to use automation tracks for MIDI CC, which allows to use surfaces like Artist Mix, FaderPort 8/16 or probably others.
Ideally I would also like to be able to control certain functions of the DAW.
A scroll wheel would also be very useful, which the faderport seems to have.


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## Mithnaur (Jul 31, 2021)

I have a possibility to buy an Artist Mix + Artist Control set for a rather interesting price.
So even if I didn't plan to buy both, I think it could be a good opportunity.
On the other hand there is no more original software, but to those who have these surfaces, can we still get them on the Avid site?
The recent Eucon software is downloadable there and apparently compatible with the Artist Mix.
But I don't know what else was supposed to be delivered in the new packs.


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 31, 2021)

I bought a brand new Avid Artist Mix at the end of April. All the software is available on the Avid Site.

I got an email from them at the end of June informing me the Eucon 2021.6 was available for em to download it.


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