# What Brass Library for the Best Lows...Bones, Tubas, etc?



## tomhartman (Feb 21, 2013)

Been a long time since I've bought a sample library I hate to say...been living for years with the original VSL library (full) and LASS and been pretty happy.

With Cinebrass, Dimension brass, etc out there, and the Spitfire libraries I'm at a loss to begin a search for what will be the best library for the large "film score" sound of low brass...the typical swells, and staccatos we all love.

I've listened to some demos online, and was surprised to find out how much I liked what I was hearing in the Vienna Dimension brass package, but I'll rely on you guys for good input on what's best for what I'm asking.

I'm not as concerned with high trumpets, etc, though eventually I will be, right now I have a project where the low end is the most important to me.

Thanks for any input!

TH


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## Ed (Feb 21, 2013)

In terms of sound? Albion 3. In terms of articulations, probably VSL. With VSL you really gotta know how to mix it. If you dont like mixing very dry sounds, I'd stay away because you'll probably have a hard time getting the same results. But hey, its just what I'd do


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 21, 2013)

I layer Hollywood Brass with the original Project Sam Brass and I like tet sound. Pretty ballsy IMHO.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm not sure it's worth getting Albion 3 for just that one low brass patch. It's nice yeah, but you get shorts, longs (inlcuding nasty longs) and legatos. And effects. Great library, but I think you gotta want the low strings, woods, percussion and synth stuff too.

Cinebrass is a decent option. I quite like the sound of the low brass, in both the core and the Pro. But I have issues with how the shorts work. Not because they don't sound good but because the way the dynamics and lengths work are a bit weird and I think there's more potential there. Very big sound though. Used it the other day in a live jam, it was good fun.


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## tomhartman (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks ...yes I'm mainly interested in the trombones and tuba...the classic low brass thing, not strings, etc....I actually heard a good example of it in one of the demos for the newer VSL brass library....

That said I know the Cinesamples products are really well liked, might have to get that to start...

thanks again!
Tom


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## 667 (Feb 21, 2013)

You can buy CB Pro standalone if you don't have/need CB Core. I did this because I already have HB Gold. CB Pro includes a "monster low brass" patch as well as solo tuba, solo trombone, and some other cool stuff (lots of FX, the 12 Horn ensemble, solo trumpet, etc. etc. etc.)

http://cinesamples.com/products/cinebrass/

Great sound, especially the 12 horns and solo trumpet which I think are both amazing. But like Echoes I do not like the interface in terms of dynamics and short/long/articulation via velocity. Just preference really, doesn't work for me. The patch programming needs some smoothing too, transition layers aren't great basically you have loud and soft and blending between them doesn't work very well. But still absolutely killer sounds and all of that other stuff easy to live with.

Albion III is a bit expensive but if you use a coupon quite reasonable, and with Spitfire it's pretty easy to get a coupon. In my opinion the low winds patch is something very special and unique, the low strings are a great tool to blend in with existing libraries, for example when Loegria needs some OOMPF.  I mean, the whole library is basically dedicated to OOMPF. It's pretty fun and I like that it's different from other stuff out there.


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## Cinesamples (Feb 21, 2013)

CineBrass PRO has patches called "Monster Low Brass". We sampled 9 low brass players in a semi-circle in the middle of the MGM scoring stage. Staccatos, Sustains, FX, rips, clusters, all that good stuff.

It's quite a sound.


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## Cinesamples (Feb 21, 2013)

667 @ Thu Feb 21 said:


> Great sound, especially the 12 horns and solo trumpet which I think are both amazing. But like Echoes I do not like the interface in terms of dynamics and short/long/articulation via velocity. Just preference really, doesn't work for me. The patch programming needs some smoothing too, transition layers aren't great basically you have loud and soft and blending between them doesn't work very well. But still absolutely killer sounds and all of that other stuff easy to live with.



Yup, lots of people are do not use velocity switching for the different lengths of articulations. We have other 'presets' on the interface that may better suit your composing workflow. Try those out - if those don't work, you can create your own custom mapping.

Let us know if you have any questions.

Mike


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## handz (Feb 21, 2013)

While I always hated, really hated Key Switches, velocity switching is IMO best and very elegant way of articulation changes, wish it would be used more. 

Of course if you are used to record your lines live, it is probably a pain but for us typing the notes to key editor this is a blessing.


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## Ryan (Feb 21, 2013)

I think you also need to look into the Sample Modeling brass (That have taken over my whole pallet/template).


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## Dan Stearn (Feb 21, 2013)

My vote here would go to Hollywood Brass, their low brass patch is great too. But I've also been checking out some of the SM stuff lately, and am considering adding that to the template too, so if I were starting from scratch, HB and SM would be the places I'd be looking


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## JohnG (Feb 21, 2013)

I like Hollywood Brass, supplemented with Albion III. I agree with the point that one wouldn't buy Albion III just for the brass alone, but I have enjoyed it so far and am using it in a video game score, where it is quite helpful.

I also found Cinebrass' video impressive. Seven bass trombones -- fun stuff.



(Note: I have received free products from East West)


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## Echoes in the Attic (Feb 21, 2013)

CineSamples @ Thu Feb 21 said:


> 667 @ Thu Feb 21 said:
> 
> 
> > Great sound, especially the 12 horns and solo trumpet which I think are both amazing. But like Echoes I do not like the interface in terms of dynamics and short/long/articulation via velocity. Just preference really, doesn't work for me. The patch programming needs some smoothing too, transition layers aren't great basically you have loud and soft and blending between them doesn't work very well. But still absolutely killer sounds and all of that other stuff easy to live with.
> ...



Hey Mike, I actually love the concept, however I find the dynamics confusing between the different lengths. In most Cinebrass patches, at a given dynamic (especially in the mid ranges), the shortest notes are so much more powerful then the 1/4 and 1/2's. So the default mapping, where the harder velocity triggers longer notes, is not very intuitive at all. You hit the keys harder and get a much softer sound which lasts longer. I have reversed the velocity mapping, which works ok, so it has a loud short note on the highest velocity. However I would think it would make more sense if all note lengths sounded like they were at the same dynamic level at any given mod wheel setting. The trumpets are actually pretty good in this regard, but I find the horns and trombones dynamics to be very different between the different short lengths, the longer shorts being too soft compared to the shortest ones.

Is this behavior intentional?

Also, I always find the 1/2 shorts always end before I want them to. It would be very useful if those were looped, since they respond to release trigger anyways.

By the way, the low brass is all awesome in both Cinebrass Core and Pro, but it's a shame there are no lower brass ensemble patches with legato in either. Trombones legato would be nice even.


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## Jack Weaver (Feb 21, 2013)

Hi tomhartman, 

I have a bunch of the brass libraries named above: VSL, VSL Dimension Brass, CineSamples Core & Pro, Hollywood Brass, Sample Modeling, Project SAM Brass and various others. Don't have Iceni. 

My initial caveat is that everyone envisions different sounds and weighting of sounds in their compositions. I spent 20 years playing trumpet in a variety of settings - orchestral, band, jazz, rock, soul, etc. I tend to like to hear and use the more powerful edge of brass sounds. 

With this in mind, my #1 hands-down favorite for low brass (trb, bass trb, tuba, ensemble combinations of these) is without a doubt Hollywood Brass. That's not to say that the others don't have their value. The lows in HB have a sense of almost violence that's like a contained explosion. Very dynamic. I like the sound of the EW studio for brass in particular. (I like other sound stages for other instrument families.) I tend to add some MIR for HB - and/or B2 or Bricasti. I like to add Sample Modeling trb and bass trb to this occasionally for additional depth, dynamism and pitch information. 

For horns I like Hollywood Brass and the many VSL variants. There a lot of size/depth combinations available between the two. 

For trumpet(s) I like CineSamples and Sample Modeling the best. They are the strongest, have the most usable dynamic range. Everything from sensitive to soaring and strong. The intonation of ensemble playing is good in the CineSample trpts. For Piccolo tpt I prefer the VSL. 

HTH

.

(PS - wow, you've been a member even longer than me!)


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## Stephen Baysted (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm using various combos of: Cinebrass Core/Pro; Hollywood Brass; Albion; and VSL. The majority of my general brass is now Cinebrass though.


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## midi_controller (Feb 21, 2013)

I hate to be the party pooper here but traditional orchestral low brass is the one thing I don't think anyone has gotten right yet (private libraries not included), and by that I mean mainly trombones. The thing is, it has NOTHING to do with the sound of the library or the space or any of that. It's the way the notes are being performed. There is a certain "punchiness" in every single real recording of trombones I've ever heard that I haven't been able to find in any brass library. Sample libraries always end up sounding a bit weak and thin in comparison. Maybe the players are being too perfect, or just flat out not playing how they would naturally, but in any case, it just doesn't sound right.

At this point, it's my holy grail. I'm at least moderately happy with everything else except my low brass. At the moment I'm using Hollywood Brass layered with EWQLSO brass and it's enough that most people won't notice but I sure as hell do.

If anyone is thinking of recording brass any time soon, please, please A/B to natural performances like crazy during your session. Or something. Also, if you record this setup in a hall/scoring stage you'll be my new best friend:

Solo Trombone
3 Trombones
Solo Bass Trombone (SEPARATELY, don't mix it with anything else!)
Solo Contrabass Trombone
Solo Cimbasso
Solo Tuba

Legato not required. :D


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## Daryl (Feb 22, 2013)

midi_controller @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> I hate to be the party pooper here but traditional orchestral low brass is the one thing I don't think anyone has gotten right yet (private libraries not included), and by that I mean mainly trombones. The thing is, it has NOTHING to do with the sound of the library or the space or any of that. It's the way the notes are being performed. There is a certain "punchiness" in every single real recording of trombones I've ever heard that I haven't been able to find in any brass library. Sample libraries always end up sounding a bit weak and thin in comparison. Maybe the players are being too perfect, or just flat out not playing how they would naturally, but in any case, it just doesn't sound right.


These sort of issues are exactly why I use SM Brass. The performance is mine, so if I don't like something, I play it differently.

D


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## Ryan (Feb 22, 2013)

Daryl @ 22/2/2013 said:


> midi_controller @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > I hate to be the party pooper here but traditional orchestral low brass is the one thing I don't think anyone has gotten right yet (private libraries not included), and by that I mean mainly trombones. The thing is, it has NOTHING to do with the sound of the library or the space or any of that. It's the way the notes are being performed. There is a certain "punchiness" in every single real recording of trombones I've ever heard that I haven't been able to find in any brass library. Sample libraries always end up sounding a bit weak and thin in comparison. Maybe the players are being too perfect, or just flat out not playing how they would naturally, but in any case, it just doesn't sound right.
> ...



+ 1


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## midi_controller (Feb 22, 2013)

Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> These sort of issues are exactly why I use SM Brass. The performance is mine, so if I don't like something, I play it differently.



Except that when it comes to SM Brass (mainly trombones, I've heard the others but haven't had the chance to demo them), it actually IS a problem with how they are recorded. Sure, you could argue that they play more naturally, but in an orchestral context, ESPECIALLY as an ensemble, they aren't quite there. However, this might be more of a limitation of convolution reverb than the instruments themselves.


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## jamwerks (Feb 22, 2013)

Jack Weaver @ Thu Feb 21 said:


> ...is without a doubt Hollywood Brass. That's not to say that the others don't have their value. The lows in HB have a sense of almost violence that's like a contained explosion. Very dynamic. I like the sound of the EW studio for brass in particular. (I like other sound stages for other instrument families.) I tend to add some MIR for HB - and/or B2 or Bricasti.


What mic'(s) are you using in Play? If two mic's used, do you send them both through MIR, or just one?

I like "Main" + "Outrigger" for HB, but am thinking that sending the outriggers through MIR might be two much.

I ask because I'm redoing from scratch my template, and considering MIR Pro 24 for the cohesion between all the different rooms my libraries come from.

o-[][]-o


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## Daryl (Feb 22, 2013)

midi_controller @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > These sort of issues are exactly why I use SM Brass. The performance is mine, so if I don't like something, I play it differently.
> ...


Nope, can't agree with that.

D


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## mark812 (Feb 22, 2013)

midi_controller @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > These sort of issues are exactly why I use SM Brass. The performance is mine, so if I don't like something, I play it differently.
> ...



Well, here it sounds pretty fantastic.


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## midi_controller (Feb 22, 2013)

mark812 @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> Well, here it sounds pretty fantastic.



No offense meant to the composer here, but it's got the same kind of sound every dry brass library put through convolution reverb has: it sounds like it's coming out of a tube. That does not sound natural at all, and it doesn't have the right ensemble sound either due to the stacked solo instruments. Once you start getting into the forte region with brass, it becomes really obvious. That said, it's a good use of the instruments, but still FAR from the right sound.


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## Ryan (Feb 22, 2013)

midi_controller @ 22/2/2013 said:


> mark812 @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, here it sounds pretty fantastic.
> ...



Sorry, but! Seems like you need to upgrade/try out new reverbs. I run SM Brass thru lexicon random halls, and that´s one hell of a killer setup. Random hall with the random algorithm makes it even better. I have also made my own presets to match the MGM scoring stage as good as possible. I decided that this is the one and only library (brass) that I need now. I stick to it, and it does sound better and better for each day!! Still though, I´m always turning and trying out new settings for this instruments. That´s what make them so fun to play with! 

This was not meant to my man, Blakus.. 

My 100 cents. 

Best
Ryan


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## Daryl (Feb 22, 2013)

midi_controller @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> mark812 @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, here it sounds pretty fantastic.
> ...


It is coming out of a tube. That's what a brass instrument is. :lol: 

D


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## mark812 (Feb 22, 2013)

Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> midi_controller @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > mark812 @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> ...



Haha. :lol: 

BTW, B2 (algo) is the reverb.


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## midi_controller (Feb 22, 2013)

Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> It is coming out of a tube. That's what a brass instrument is. :lol:
> 
> D



:roll: 

I'm not sure what happened with that if it's not using convolution, because it sure sounds like it is. It has that same nasal quality that you usually hear on them. Could be an after effect of just trying to push those instruments back, or it might be phasing from stacking the instruments. Either way, it sounds off.

Ryan: Do you have a brass heavy track that demonstrates your setup?

Do you guys honestly believe that SM Brass doesn't have any problems? Seriously?


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## Ryan (Feb 22, 2013)

Midi_controller: sure, check out this score I've made for a movie. I give you my 48k 24b mix-down. This is a mock-up before I get it played live 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l4p5lxgb7dxn0x4/CV4Xr4svjD

One is a mastered, and one is straight exported from Cubase 7. 

Cheers!
Ryan


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## Daryl (Feb 22, 2013)

midi_controller @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> Do you guys honestly believe that SM Brass doesn't have any problems? Seriously?


Of course not, but what you actually said was



> The thing is, it has NOTHING to do with the sound of the library or the space or any of that. It's the way the notes are being performed


Now you are talking about the sound, so it seems it is not about performance, because as we've said, the performance is up to the performer.

I would agree that getting the right sound out of SM takes a lot of effort, but it is not impossible. However, if you want a kind of synthetic hyper-real sound, then that requires a different approach. I can't speak for that, because not only have I not tried, I also don't really understand what you are objecting to in current sample libraries.

Is it possible to post an example of what you are missing? I think that this would clear a lot of things up.

D


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## midi_controller (Feb 22, 2013)

Ryan @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> Midi_controller: sure, check out this score I've made for a movie. I give you my 48k 24b mix-down. This is a mock-up before I get it played live
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l4p5lxgb7dxn0x4/CV4Xr4svjD
> 
> ...



Hmm, not really brass heavy, or at least not what I meant. Think like a fanfare or action scene. Something with a lot of brass playing really loud. :D
Actually, this also had that nasal quality, so I'm beginning to think this is inherent in SM Brass no matter the reverb. Keep in mind though that I'm not knocking your ability as a composer or mixer, as in a normal context I wouldn't be paying attention to it that much. I try to practice suspension of disbelief on mockups, it lets me enjoy the music more.


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## midi_controller (Feb 22, 2013)

Daryl @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> > The thing is, it has NOTHING to do with the sound of the library or the space or any of that. It's the way the notes are being performed
> 
> 
> Now you are talking about the sound, so it seems it is not about performance, because as we've said, the performance is up to the performer.
> ...



Sorry for the double post, was replied to while I was replying to someone else.

Ok, so I think the mix up was that when I said it was a performance problem, I was talking about libraries with the baked in hall/scoring stage ambience. 

The thing with sample modeling brass is that while you can get some incredibly realistic sounds out of it, it just doesn't sit right in an orchestral context, or at least not close enough that I am comfortable using it. But this isn't limited to SM brass, I feel the same way about EVERY brass library recorded super close and dry. I just don't think that the technology is there to push it back into a virtual room and have it sound right. Be it the reflections, the interaction between players, the displacement of air, whatever it is, I've never heard it done synthetically. And the louder you push the brass, ESPECIALLY the low brass, the worse it sounds.

If the technology gets to the point where it DOES get that right, I will be the first person to jump all over it. It would make my life about 10x easier.

For examples...hmm...I could name a ton. Any large film score recorded in the 90's would be good. After that too many people started artificially inflating the size of their orchestra (not that I have a problem with that, but it's a different sound than what I'm talking about).


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## Ryan (Feb 22, 2013)

midi_controller @ 22/2/2013 said:


> Ryan @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Midi_controller: sure, check out this score I've made for a movie. I give you my 48k 24b mix-down. This is a mock-up before I get it played live
> ...



No problem. Gonna upload something else tomorrow. Something with only the lows (Tuba & Bones). It would be with the "stage" settings only and without the "tail". 

Later

Ryan


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## Daryl (Feb 22, 2013)

midi_controller @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> For examples...hmm...I could name a ton. Any large film score recorded in the 90's would be good. After that too many people started artificially inflating the size of their orchestra (not that I have a problem with that, but it's a different sound than what I'm talking about).


I think that this is where we disagree. I think that it's only the super synthy artificially inflated stuff that is a problem. The cleaner more traditional stuff is fine to my ears.

Having said that, the SM approach to ensemble building doesn't really work for more than 3 or 4 players, or at least I haven't been able to make it work. When I want that big epic (stupid word, but you know what I mean) Horn sound, I do have to layer with VSL, or it just sounds too small. However, for a 4 Horn sound I'm quite happy.

D


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## Blakus (Feb 22, 2013)

midi_controller @ 22/2/2013 said:


> mark812 @ Fri Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, here it sounds pretty fantastic.
> ...



No offense taken!  That's just a solo horn/trombone in that piece - and yeah it's far from perfect, but getting closer. I've tweaked a lot since then (I tweak nearly every day haha). I don't deny that making instruments recorded like SM sound nice on an orchestral stage is a mighty pain and I have never been truly 100% satisfied, but I've decided that for me the benefits make it worth it. SM layered with other libraries is pretty amazing too.

With SM, I only ever use it for chordal writing or for solo lines. I'm never really that happy with ensemble unison stacking.


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## Vartio (Feb 22, 2013)

I think this is a decent virtual low brass performance. no?
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10366907/born%20from%20ashes3%20%28Snippet%29.mp3 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10366907/born% ... pet%29.mp3)

I dont think any other than SM can get that Bass bone growl right... and in my opinion it sits pretty well in the context of the mix.



> SM layered with other libraries is pretty amazing too.


so many +1s


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## midi_controller (Feb 22, 2013)

Vartio @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> I think this is a decent virtual low brass performance. no?
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10366907/born%20from%20ashes3%20%28Snippet%29.mp3 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10366907/born% ... pet%29.mp3)
> 
> I dont think any other than SM can get that Bass bone growl right...



Actually that doesn't sound half bad, although there isn't very much there. What little bass trombone stuff that is in Hollywood Brass can sound fairly similar.

I've been sitting here trying to find youtube videos to show what I've been looking for but every one I find is horribly low quality. :| 

Some of the best short notes for low brass I've heard are in Symphobia, but they are very inconsistent, and since I like having total control over what every instrument is doing, I usually only use it to layer now and then. 



> The cleaner more traditional stuff is fine to my ears.



And that is what counts. If it works for you, by all means go for it. It just isn't where I want it to be, at least not yet. Most people (including me most likely) will never even notice. It's mainly only in comparison to the real thing that hits me, and I realize how much better this stuff can sound.


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## Daryl (Feb 22, 2013)

midi_controller @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> It's mainly only in comparison to the real thing that hits me, and I realize how much better this stuff can sound.


Now that I totally agree with, but for me it's not the sound that disappoints me with sample libraries. It's the fake canned performances. I hate that.

D


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## Justin Miller (Feb 22, 2013)

I think the best sounded sampled brass I've ever heard was in Jeremy Soule's score to Supreme Commander. If I only knew what library that was.. probably custom :( The low brass is especially ballsy and the phrasing always sounds natural.


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## Ryan (Feb 23, 2013)

Maybe this aint what you where looking after, but anyway. I made this anyway: 

https://soundcloud.com/ryan1986/sm-brass-low-test


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## Enyak (Feb 23, 2013)

Ryan @ Sat Feb 23 said:


> Maybe this aint what you where looking after, but anyway. I made this anyway:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/ryan1986/sm-brass-low-test



Ryan, that cue is well made, but I think you're still being let down by SM brass. However there's also some pretty nice dynamic stuff going on that I am not sure you could replicate with standard libs. Still, I am missing the room and impact of a real sampled ensemble.

I think SM certainly shouldn't be counted out and absolutely has its place when mixed in with standard ensembles.


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## Enyak (Feb 23, 2013)

Justin Miller @ Fri Feb 22 said:


> I think the best sounded sampled brass I've ever heard was in Jeremy Soule's score to Supreme Commander. If I only knew what library that was.. probably custom :( The low brass is especially ballsy and the phrasing always sounds natural.



I am certain the brass wasn't augmented by samples - it was all live orchestra.


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## Peter Alexander (Feb 23, 2013)

*Live Low Brass Examples*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNedF6bA208

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fj7eri3NNY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSwYt2bqQlI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ettl1usw2c


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## Blakus (Feb 27, 2013)

Agree with Vartio about the growl. All low brass (only a few main moments) in this piece I've been working on tonight is SM. 

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F81031559&secret_url=false[/flash]

NoFlash


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## midi_controller (Feb 27, 2013)

Blakus @ Wed Feb 27 said:


> Agree with Vartio about the growl. All low brass (only a few main moments) in this piece I've been working on tonight is SM.
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F81031559&secret_url=false[/flash]
> 
> NoFlash



That sounds WAY better Blakus, good job!


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## mark812 (Feb 27, 2013)

Blakus @ Wed Feb 27 said:


> Agree with Vartio about the growl. All low brass (only a few main moments) in this piece I've been working on tonight is SM.
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F81031559&secret_url=false[/flash]
> 
> NoFlash



Wow, Blakus!


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## Mahlon (Feb 27, 2013)

Blake, wow! The SMB sounds very good. But I'm always blown away at how you get LASS to sound so good.

The whole balance and EQ and instrument's spacial placement is light years from what I've been able to accomplish.

Mahlon


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## Blakus (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks guys 

Mahlon - I'm glad you like the balance/eq! I find that being constantly unhappy in this area keeps me busy in that department lol! One of these days I'll finally wake up and realise that it'll never be the "real thing". :roll:


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## ghostnote (Feb 28, 2013)

I have to say that the good olde SO solo tuba still kicks ass. The Cinebrass core low brass dissapointed me a bit.


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## Justin Miller (Feb 28, 2013)

Enyak, please read the following

http://www.gsoundtracks.com/reviews/sup ... mander.htm

http://www.ign.com/articles/2007/03/15/ ... ule?page=2

http://bitmob.com/articles/composer-spotlight-jeremy-soule (http://bitmob.com/articles/composer-spo ... remy-soule)


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## Rob (Feb 28, 2013)

Daryl @ 22nd February 2013 said:


> ... for me it's not the sound that disappoints me with sample libraries. It's the fake canned performances. I hate that.
> 
> D



exactly my thought


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## Ryan (Feb 28, 2013)

I don't give up. Made this little cue from the morning on before I do some other work. This is only SM brass with close mics. That way it's more articulated. 

Inspired by Alan Silvestri. 

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F81197645&secret_url=false[/flash]

Ryan


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## Daryl (Feb 28, 2013)

Ryan @ Thu Feb 28 said:


> By thw way: How to I get those soundcloud-links like blakus?


http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24777

D


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## Ryan (Feb 28, 2013)

Thanks!


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 28, 2013)

Blakus and Ryan, they both sounds terrific compositions, orchestration and mixes. It was only the brass in Ryan's that I was a little less keen on, I have a feeling CineBrass would just drop right into that mix. Blakus, are your horns SM too, btw?

(kept typing CineBrass as CineBras. Maybe they should be out next - release the bras...)


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## Ryan (Feb 28, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ 28/2/2013 said:


> Blakus and Ryan, they both sounds terrific compositions, orchestration and mixes. It was only the brass in Ryan's that I was a little less keen on, I have a feeling CineBrass would just drop right into that mix. Blakus, are your horns SM too, btw?
> 
> (kept typing CineBrass as CineBras. Maybe they should be out next - release the bras...)



Exactly what I wanted to hear. I've used cinebrass as a starting point in my hobby mixing engineering skills. This is my MGM stage setup. I have also some other templates with different mixing (like the dropbox files sheared on the first page) 

Thanks Guy!


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## Enyak (Feb 28, 2013)

Justin Miller @ Thu Feb 28 said:


> Enyak, please read the following
> 
> http://www.gsoundtracks.com/reviews/sup ... mander.htm
> 
> ...



Justin, I remember being part of an email conversation (in the year the game came out) with JS about the TA soundtrack and talk of him using an orchestrator to produce the score. I've glanced through the articles but couldn't find a quote of him saying it was samples all along.

It's been a long time since I listened to TA though, maybe I'm not remembering the orchestral fidelity right.


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## Enyak (Feb 28, 2013)

Enyak @ Thu Feb 28 said:


> Justin Miller @ Thu Feb 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Enyak, please read the following
> ...



Oops. You're talking about Supreme Commander, the 10-year-late sequel to Total Annihilation. My bad, I was referring to the original game. It's synths, alright then! :D


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## Echoes in the Attic (Feb 28, 2013)

Blakus @ Wed Feb 27 said:


> Agree with Vartio about the growl. All low brass (only a few main moments) in this piece I've been working on tonight is SM.
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F81031559&secret_url=false[/flash]
> 
> NoFlash



This sounds great. Just out of curiosity, how do you go about writing sections with just SM Brass? Do you actually write each line separately for each solo instrument? Or do you use the unison patches they have for the horns (I think it's the horns right?) and layer solos for everything else?

Seems like it would be a lot of work to use only SM for ensemble Brass, as opposed to layering with something like CineBrass.


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## quantum7 (Feb 28, 2013)

Ryan @ Thu Feb 28 said:


> I don't give up. Made this little cue from the morning on before I do some other work. This is only SM brass with close mics. That way it's more articulated.
> 
> Inspired by Alan Silvestri.
> 
> ...



Beautiful piece and arrangement. Hearing this makes me want to work harder on my MIDI mockups.


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## Ryan (Mar 1, 2013)

quantum7: Thank you!


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Mar 1, 2013)

I thought I'd throw in one of my recent tracks - although this is the first time I've used SampleModeling in an orchestral context I'm quite pleased with the results (but just like Blakus, I think I'll spend an eternity tweaking it to get it just right...).

Oh, there's also a little bit of Hollywood Brass in there, but all of the low brass is SM.

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F81329959&secret_url=false[/flash]


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## parnasso (Mar 1, 2013)

Mikhel, this sounds wonderful, your mixes are always stellar! You manage to obtain an incredible clearness yet there is a very natural depth and space. You have my admiration!

Blakus, great piece and mix, too!


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## Rob (Mar 1, 2013)

Mihkel @ 1st March 2013 said:


> I thought I'd throw in one of my recent tracks - although this is the first time I've used SampleModeling in an orchestral context I'm quite pleased with the results (but just like Blakus, I think I'll spend an eternity tweaking it to get it just right...).
> 
> Oh, there's also a little bit of Hollywood Brass in there, but all of the low brass is SM.
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F81329959&secret_url=false[/flash]



wow, this is great, both the writing and the midi performance!


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## Justin Miller (Mar 1, 2013)

Enyak,
haha, yeah dude I was confused if you thought I was talking about TA. If you haven't listened to the Supreme Commander soundtrack please do. You'll see what I mean about the quality and performance of the brass samples.


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