# My guitar project: Beta download and WIP MP3s (technique samples)



## kotori (May 24, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Hi Benjamin,
I'm no e-guitar expert so I don't have any direct comments or suggestions. I'd just like to wish you the very best of luck on this exciting project. Btw. is it going to be a commercial, personal or free library?
I really like this if-no-one-else-does-it-I'll-just-do-it-myself attitude!  

Cheers,
Nils


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## Waywyn (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Hey Benjamin,

i also wish you good luck. With all the scripting guitar libraries did a big jump ahead since you can transport the feeling so well like legato or sliding etc.

as a pro guitar player for around 15 years, here are maybe some little hints to be aware of:

- you said you recently bought a guitar and you want to sample it yourself. so i at least hope that you play guitar for a good while also.
the tone comes is not inside an expensive guitar. it is in the fingers!!

there is this funny story but i guess the most guitar players know that one:
once Robben Ford visited the MI in L.A. and one student ask him if it would possible to just play his guitar for a few seconds, since that axe Robben used, was really an expensive pile of wood.
So he agreed, the student came up on stage and played some notes ... but then Robben took the students guitar and started to play ... and ... the cheap Ibanez had the definite "Robben Ford sound". Of course an expensive guitar is always a good piece of quality (or should be).

- before you start recording a library i would check out LPC, because i think that this is a library which can probably do everything you want to do as a non guitar player.

Also like kotori said, i also like the attitude to do something nobody did before, but before saying this there might also be existing stuff which you just don't know. So just make sure to check out LPC, since it is the most stunning guitar library i ever heard.


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## Dynamitec (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Hi Nils!

Thank you! There will be a free library and a commercial one. I like the spirit of open source, but sometimes i also could use a few bucks  So i'll do both.

Hi Waywyn!

Thank you for your suggestions. I really think it would be very difficult to do a sampling guitar without playing guitar  I've been playing drums for about 15 years and i was always frustrated to have ideas for songs and couldn't explain them to my band members. So i started guitar about 5 years ago. And it worked out very well. And I know: the tone is in the fingers! I liked to play as fast as possible in my first year, than i did a break and started to develop tone instead of speed.

I checked out the LPC guitar (as well as Lyrical Distorsion, Monster Guitarz, etc.) . I think especially the LPC sounds really realistic.

But i need more control. I don't like that most guitars sample chords...i like to do tabulatures in cubase that should be played as i wrote them. So i did a lot of research and i found some new ways to do thing more like i want them to do.


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## Dynamitec (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Hi Waywyn! Hi everybody!

I thought i post you one of my (now 3 years old) songs, that i did with my first sampled guitar ever. No, it doesn't sound very realistic but keep in mind: i had only a total amount of 24 samples that i did only for testing my idea. And i hadn't had the equipment to record my guitar it in high sound quality...

http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/NeoclassicalDilemma-old.mp3 (http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/Ne ... ma-old.mp3)

(check here also at 3:45 min...) It's a boring song, but as i said it did it just for test purposes.

Those where all steps towards the conecpt i have now. Rember: this stuff is 3 years old!


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## Waywyn (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

maybe just one more thing. i would definitely record a clean library.
the user would be much more flexible in terms of sound etc.

i only recorded my library completely distorted because my purpose was the sound. ... and to have something quick at hand to fill a track with some brutal powerchords - so i don't see my DISTORTED lib not just like a complete guitar library.

but if i would do a guitar library i would do both, distorted and clean.

i keep in mind that your stuff is like 3 years old, but the worst you can do, is release your lib with some 80ies ugly metal sound


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## Dynamitec (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Hrhr... of course i don't want ro release it with ugly 80 metal sound  The mp3 does definitly NOT sound good, but it shows the possibilites with only 24 samples...my calculation for the guitar now should be aprox. >12000 samples (release date 2010  - NO - just kidding - i don't have to do this all by my own *g* There are people who do the sample cutting, mapping, etc...)

It will be recorded clean (the DI signal)! Of course. Because of those great amp simulators out there this is the only thing that really make sence in term of flexibilty.

But i will also reamp the samples with Wavlelab (using my amp as external plugin) to make a distorted library as well. But it's users choice. I could do custom reamping if someone want to have a special amp for example, too.


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## Dynamitec (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Hi! Another question: what samplerate should i record the samples? I could go up to 192/24 but i wonder if this really would make sence. On the other side: Wavelab 6 has a really good samplerate converter (Crystal Resample), so i thought i could sample it in best quality and do downsampling later to make a use-less-memory-version. 
What do you think?


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## Waywyn (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

i would go for 24 bit and 44,1 khz.

it would be enough to go 16 bit, but last time i had somebody order my library and then refused to buy it beacuse it wasn't 24 bit ... jeesh ... so you should be covered just in case this happens to you 

also i am not so sure if wavelab has a good sample converter. a while back i was reading some article about how ugly wavelab is converting sample rates 
actually i found the link to this article here in the forum, just browse a bit.

peak and audition did the best converting, but i am not sure about wavelab 6, hopefully steinberg improved


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## Dynamitec (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Thank you for your answer!

It's a full new resampling algorithm on wavelab 6. I think they did this because of the bad old one, btw: Wavelab 6 has some great new features, but i think it's still a little bit too expensive, i could get a special trade so it wasn't that expensive, but imo it's still a little bit to much. Same with Cubase SX. (I love it, but i hate its bugs . But i'm sure you know a program from NI which produce the same feelings *g* :razz: ) 

Hm, strange. I think it 44/16 should be still enough for most productions. Not to buy a library because its "only" 16bit? I think there is a lot of realism and sound quality lost, just by using a sampler, so the differents between 16 and 24 should be hard to hear.


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## Dynamitec (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

BTW: Waywyn, do you know Dream Theaters "Train of thought"? Some of your "Mean presents" sound a litte bit like Petruccis 7-String licks from this album...

Your licks sound great! Nice, smooth sound!


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## Waywyn (May 25, 2006)

hehe really? 
no i didn't follow dream theaters stuff but in my former fusion-chaotic-rock band we played a lot of stuff like "ytse jam" and "erotomania". all that was around 6 years ago. damn, time flies fast.
... but i will check it out.

anyway, thanks for your comment!


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## Dynamitec (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Check out "As i am"


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## Waywyn (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Yeh i did right now.
Don't want to bash Dream Theater but everything seems the same:

Mike Portnoy is still not grooving  (his technique is killer, but he is one of the ungrooviest drummers i know). Our drummer in that funny fusion band listened out "Ytse Jam" back then in just one night 

John Petrucci is a mean bitch and i am all the time impressed by his guitar playing.

It sounds a bit mean, but this music is all about doing mathematical things to music which i definitely like and still do, but after a while you are used to what they do and how they contruct their songs. I went on to analyze Meshuggah and finally understood what they do, so i am better coming back to some old blues and jazz cds or listen to classical stuff just to listen to some "music" and not just playing with numbers.

I really had in mind doing a really cool progressive shit album, but i think these days are over


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## Dynamitec (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Maybe a litte OT now but:
Hehe, yeah your right. I listend to Dream Theater a lot, i have all albums. But i don't really hear them anymore. Ok, i still go to their concerts, because i think it's a killer live band. But after all: i'm not that impressed anymore. Of course i still like Petrucci (my favourite guitarist, i like his tone AND his technique) and Jordan Rudess (do you know their album "On night with Jordan Rudess and John Petrccui", doing a whole evening only Jazz and ALL improvised with only some chordsheets?). I still like Portnoy, even if many people don't like his style. I think he uses an different approch to drumming, he doesn't play drums in the common way, he use drums as an instrument, not only as a "beat and rhythm generator". Hard to say, what i mean  Compared to Simon Phillips or the guy from Meshugga he's not the "best" drummer, but still interessting. As a drummer, i was influenced by his playing style a lot.

Meshugga is interesting in terms of drumming. I got into this polyrhythm-stuff 3 years ago or something, played some 5/8 or 9/8 against 4/4 stuff etc. But as you said: it's mathematical and not muscial. 

Music shouldn't be too intellectual, it should be emotional (but not too boring, i still like and do some odd time signatures  I'm still sometimes very impressed by musicans with great technique, but on "Musikmesse 2006" i wasn't impressed by any of the guitarist (except on Flamengo guitarist) or bassist i listend to. They all sound so similar. They are fast, they are sounding "good" but i missed something special.

Like Petrucci has. Or even Alexi Laiho from COB with his own special sound. Vai is still a killer, but on G3 with Petrucci, you hear BLUES from Petrucci and effects and technique from Vai.

My 2cents


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## Thonex (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*



Dynamitec @ Thu May 25 said:


> It will be recorded clean (the DI signal)! Of course. Because of those great amp simulators out there this is the only thing that really make sence in term of flexibilty.



Hi D,

If possible, I would record a clean signal *and* and mic'ed amp signal. It's just a matter of using an A/B box and then you have a real distortion with air as well as the clean signal for reamping. My bet is... if you set up the amp and mic correctly, you'll be using that as one of the main sound patches.

My 2 cents.

Cheers,

T

p.s. I'm also a gutarist for over 25 years :wink:


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## Dynamitec (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Hi Thonex! Thanks!

I thought of something similar: i could set up a amp / mic but i would send the recorded DI signal to the amp, so i can use the whole amp / mic setup as external plugin. I would do this as a batch process with all samples.

PS: A lot of guitarists here


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## Thonex (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*



Dynamitec @ Thu May 25 said:


> Hi Thonex! Thanks!
> 
> I thought of something similar: i could set up a amp / mic but i would send the recorded DI signal to the amp, so i can use the whole amp / mic setup as external plugin. I would do this as a batch process with all samples.
> 
> PS: A lot of guitarists here



Yes, but I'm also talking from performance standpoint. The guitarist will interact differntly with the guitar...sustain, bends, slides, double stops etc... if he is playing with a real amp... that kind of interaction cannot be achieved in a batch process.. but I'm sure you were thinking along the same lines as well. 

Cheers,

T


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## Dynamitec (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Ah, now i understand. Yes of course, i'll record the samples playing via a real amp (to have the REAL feel) and grabbing the DI signal. To get the right feeling. Its important for screams, harmonics etc, too. I couldn't get them right if i would only hear the DI signal...


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## Thonex (May 25, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*



Dynamitec @ Thu May 25 said:


> Ah, now i understand. Yes of course, i'll record the samples playing via a real amp (to have the REAL feel) and grabbing the DI signal. To get the right feeling. Its important for screams, harmonics etc, too. I couldn't get them right if i would only hear the DI signal...



Also, make sure the guitar player is in the same room as the guitar amp... for feedback and sustain.... getting those sympathetic resonance's can make your sustain last forever... it would be kind of cool to have that as a clean sound too :smile: 

Cheers,

T


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## Dynamitec (May 30, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Hi Guitarists there (and all others of course too),

i recently did a small test sample for the disorted sound i want to use for the distorted version of my sampling guitar. Any comments concerning this sound? (i didn't play this 100% tight, as i said: only a test for the sound)

http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/test.mp3


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## JacquesMathias (May 30, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Hi Dynamitec!

I wish you good luck with your project. Recording guitar is a tuning nightmare.  

Well, i also play guitar. I would like to know if possible, what will be your aproach on that? You said you can´t find a comercial e-guitar able to do exactly what you want to do. What you want do to that LPC doesn´t allow you?

I´m curious.

Best to you! :smile:


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## Dynamitec (May 30, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Hi! Thank you! Hehe, the guitar i recently bought for this project (a custom handemade model) is so great to tune! And you can't get it out of tune...really. It's octaves are so clean you don't see even a small difference between deep E and high E on E string on a tuner for example.

I don't want to tell all me ideas about this sampling guitar as i have to do a lot to finish this project and it will take about two or three month...so time is my enemy 

Think of one instrument per string and what you can do with a monophon instrument in kontakt


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## JacquesMathias (May 30, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*



Dynamitec @ Tue May 30 said:


> Hi! Thank you! Hehe, the guitar i recently bought for this project (a custom handemade model) is so great to tune! And you can't get it out of tune...really. It's octaves are so clean you don't see even a small difference between deep E and high E on E string on a tuner for example.
> 
> I don't want to tell all me ideas about this sampling guitar as i have to do a lot to finish this project and it will take about two or three month...so time is my enemy
> 
> Think of one instrument per string and what you can do with a monophon instrument in kontakt



Yeah. I know some people who plays detuned, even with expensiiive guitars :mrgreen: 

I wish you all the good luck! I'm looking forward for your concepts and ideas. It looks like you're gone have a nice library!  

Cheers.


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## Dynamitec (Jun 3, 2006)

*My guitar project: Phase 2. Some news for those who are interested...*

Hi everybody! 

I just want to let you know how far i've been come with my project. I did some optimizing of code and functions so i have about 1200 lines code now (1600 compiled).

What does work:

- most of the UI is finished
- Keyswitchsystem is finshed: learning and changing keyswitches works (be surprised, this will be a little bit different to other scripts and in fact: easier than ever)

- Chordqueue (detect a chord)
- choose Tuning (6 String: Standard, D-, C-Tuning, Drop D, Drop C, 7 String: Standard, B-, A-, Drop A-Tuning)

- Calculate string for a note and strings for a chord.
This is REALLY difficult. I don't want such an easy position calculation like the KSP Guitar does. I spend almost a week to get this right! If you play on a keyboard my guitar try to play those notes with positions a real guitarist would chose on a guitar.
So if you play three chords for example (C, E, G and than E again, the last E has another Position than the first E if a lower distance from the last chord would be more comfortable to play on a real fretboard). My guitar uses the whole fretboard, if you play higher notes it doesn't end on the last string, it calculates a new position - so: you have a much realistic sounding guitar! And: you don't have to change position via keyswitch (as KSP Guitar)...you can select every single string (and position) via Keyswitch, but you don't have to! Autoposition works really smooth and almost as i would chose strings manualy.
And: you can write a real tab (using cubase for example) with chords played as you want it (you don't have to use auto chord if you know what a guitarist would to play - this is the flexibility i need so much). Via keyswitch you can tell the guitar to play EXACTLY the tab you wrote (with chords splitted over strings automaticly).

So far. I hope next week i can start recording 

Btw: Chord recognition runs smooth at moment with only 4-5ms latency (time to record notes from all callbacks runing at same time)


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## Thonex (Jun 3, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Hey Dyn,

Wow.... this sounds really comprehensive. I think it's great you sat down and figured out how everything was going to work especially the scripting *before* you even recorded the instrument.

I really look forward to seeing your project come to completion... it sounds like it could be great!!!

Thanks for sharing his with us.

T


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## kotori (Jun 3, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Dynamitec, that seems really interesting. I can see how figuring out the automatic positioning and implementing it in KSP must have been quite tricky. It's always nice to see how someone with small resources but good ideas challenges the big players. 
I wish you the best of luck on this endeavor!

Cheers,
Nils


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## Dynamitec (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Thank you Thonex and Nils!

I good to hear such words! Because sometimes i have some bad hours with this project. It's really complex for a one man work (the programming - good i don't have to sample all by my own, too). Everytime i fixed a new problem or find a good working alogrithm, i have to fight my self not to start rewriting the whole code... :roll: 

:lol: But i really like the challange...


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## Dynamitec (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Update: 

- alomst ANY paramter can be set by CC or Keyswitch and EVERY CC or Keyswitch can be customized :razz: 

Btw: Nils, i had the idea to build a "visual KSP", a programm you can design the UI with. 
Would be great, some "standard routines" for the UI could be implemented. I started with those routines in my script but i had new ideas all the time...but for my script now it's to late (i don't want to rewrite...or: i want to rewrite but don't have the time)... :shock:

BTW: Here is my UI as far as i am with it:


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## Thonex (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

This looks very exciting!!! :smile: 

Man... you've been hard at work!!!!

Does the "Strumming ms" act as a "window open for x millisecs" to analyze chord?

If so, what is the longest setting you are going to allow for stumming?

This all looks great... I wish all the best with this.

Cheers,

T


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Jun 5, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*

Ey Benjamin,

This lib sounds like a cool idea. I've listened and played along with Dream Theater myself, great band. I'm a guitarist too. I've got a few old recordings of me on my site "Into the Deep" and "The Outer Rim", it's old but I'm doing a new progrock project with a friend of mine next to my scoringprojects and schoolwork. It's going slow but it's going so whenever it's finished we'll put up a website with the results. 

I'll keen an eye out on this thread!

Cheers,


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## Dynamitec (Jun 5, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 1. If someone always missed something in a (e)guitar library please post!*






Here some of my new ideas in detail 

Try look and feel:

http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/gscript.nki

Edit: Sorry, now download works.

Edit 2: Btw: Reposition time mean the time the position is reset to the lowest position. (nearest to fret 0) That means: if no note is played in this time difference, the virtual guitar player :razz: moves back his "hands" to the lowest position the next note could be played on. You can try this playing some notes on keyboard and watchting the fretboard.


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## Dynamitec (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 2. Status*

Hi everybody!

I'm still alive. Have sooo MUCH to do. I have started to rewrite everything i already had. Now, i understand everything much better, so it's much easier now. The Latency with autochord detection is now <3 ms. I've used some little tricks to get this. I lock every callback which have to be a note in a chord because the time difference from the last note is very low. I fill my queue with notes and if the last note in a chord is played the callback is unlocked (similar to multithread programing) And all calculations have to be done only once! For the lowest note in queue.

What is now working:

- Autochorddetection:

I detect 43 chords in all octaves and the guitar chords are played in the right position (if you play higher octaves you have higher positions). So if you play Cmaj (octave 2), Cmaj (octave 3), Cmaj (octave 4)...every calculated guitar chord sounds different. So you have more than: 43 * 4 different guitar chords (with autodetection)...

And its really fast!


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## Thonex (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 2. Status*

Great Benjamin!!! 

This all sounds very exciting. 



Dynamitec @ Mon Jun 19 said:


> I fill my queue with notes and if the last note in a chord is played the callback is unlocked (similar to multithread programing) And all calculations have to be done only once! For the lowest note in queue.



So, are you saying you store the notes in an (for example ) array until the last note and then sort? How do you know when the last note is played? Is it the last note that was played during the "open window" of chord detection?

Are you using the *sort(<array-variable>,<direction>)* command?

Sounds very cool!

Cheers,

T


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## Dynamitec (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 2. Status*

Hi Thonex,

No, i use insertion sort. I insert the notes sorted to the queue.

It's a little difficult for me to explain in english what i do to lock the callback.

Maybe this helps:

0.1 UNLOCK CALLBACK IF queue is empty 
0.2 LOCK CALLBACK IF queue is NOT empty

1. CLEAR QUEUE IF notes can't be in chord detect window anymore
2. IF note is played INSERT SORTED TO QUEUE
3. WAIT TO RECORD OTHER NOTES (3ms for example)

----

5. IF incoming notes and other callbacks are started in this wait time AND IF time of this note MINUS time of last note < CHORDTIME ===> LOCK CALLBACK

---

That means:

7. IF no new chord note is recorded that will lock the CALLBACK => IT'S THE LAST NOTE.
8. START CALCULATING

Do you understand? As i said: it's hard to explain.


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## Dynamitec (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 2. Status*

How i do the insertion sort:

``*declare* *const* EMPTY := -1
``*declare* *const* DO := -2
``*declare* *const* BREAK := -3
``*declare* *const* TRUE := 1
``[b:dòaÕ   =9¼aÕ   =9½aÕ   =9¾aÕ   =9¿aÕ   =9ÀaÕ   =9ÁaÕ   =9ÂaÕ   =9ÃaÕ   =9ÄaÕ   =9ÅaÕ   =9ÆaÕ   =9ÇaÕ   =9ÈaÕ   =9ÉaÕ   =9ÊaÕ   =9ËaÕ   =9ÌaÕ   =9ÍaÕ   =9ÎaÕ   =9ÏaÖ   =9ÐaÖ   =9ÑaÖ   =9ÒaÖ   =9ÓaÖ   =9ÔaÖ   =9ÕaÖ   =9ÖaÖ   =9×aÖ   =9ØaÖ   =9ÙaÖ   =9ÚaÖ   =9ÛaÖ   =9ÜaÖ   =9ÝaÖ   =9ÞaÖ   =9ßa×   =9àa×   =9áa×   =9âa×   =9ãa×   =9äa×   =9åa×   =9æa×   =9ça×   =9èa×   =9éa×   =9êa×   =9ëa×   =9ìa×   =9ía×   =9îa×   =9ïa×   =9ða×   =9ña×   =9òa×   =9óa×   =9ôa×   =9õa×   =9öa×   =9÷aØ   =9øaØ   =9ùaØ   =9úaØ   =9ûaØ   =9üaØ   =9ýaØ   =9þaØ   =9ÿaØ   =: aØ   =:aØ   =:aØ   =:aØ   =:aØ   =:aØ   =:aØ   =:aØ   =:aØ   =:	aØ   =:
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aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;               òaá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =;aá   =; aá   =;!aá   =;"aá   =;#aá   =;$aá   =;%aá   =;&aá   =;'aá   =;(aá   =aá   =;*aá   =;+aá   =;,aá   =;-aá   =;.aá   =;/aá   =;0aá   =;1aá   =;2aá   =;3aá   =;4aá   =;5aá   =;6aá   =;7aá   =;8aá   =;9aá   =;Šaá   =;‹aá   =;Œaá   =;aá   =;Žaá   =;aá   =;aá   =;‘aá   =;’aá   =;“aá   =;”aá   =;•aá   =;–aá   =;—aá   =;˜aá   =;™aá   =;šaá   =;›aá   =;œaá   =;aá   =;žaá   =;Ÿaá   =; aá   =;¡aá   =;¢aá   =;£aá   =;¤aá   =;¥aá   =;¦aá   =;§aá   =;¨aá   =;©aá   =;ªaá   =;«aá   =;¬aá   =;­aá   =;®aá   =;¯aá   =;°aá   =;±aá   =;²aá   =;³aá   =;´aá   =;µaá   =;¶aá   =;·aá   =;¸aá   =;¹aá   =;ºaá   =;»aá   =;¼aá   =;½aá   =;¾aá   =;¿aá   =;Àaá   =;Áaá   =;Âaá   =;Ãaá   =;Äaá   =;Åaá   =;Æaá   =;Çaá   =;Èaá   =;Éaá   =;Êaá   =;Ëaá   =;Ìaá   =;Íaá   =;Î              `````[/color]inputqueue_velocity[i + 1] := $EVENT_VELOCITY
````````inc(inputqueue_counter)
``````*end if*
````*end if*
``*end if*


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## Dynamitec (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Phase 2. Status*

Hi everybody!

Some news: New UI and Skin (i did my best 






What's new?

- I had some bugs and did some mistakes with strumming and the result is a arppeggio / pattern mode  You can set duration and the picking is following incoming chords, so you can do relastic picking pattern with only three fingers  I now build in a pattern mode (halfway there) and it works similar to RealGuitar.

Here a small sample (Warning: this is in now way a sound demo. It's only one E2 sample from the Kontakt KSP Guitar mapped across the whole keyboard for testing purpose):

http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/test.mp3
^This is without (!) pattern mode. It's only the autochord detection with alternate strumming. All i did is playing some chords... not spectacular, but it's the basis for the following pattern mode. I used 2 fingers in average to get this sample (max. 3).

It's hard: whenever i think: "Now i almost finished", i'd like to implement more and more features. But be prepared: it will work REALLY GREAT  I think i can post a alpha version (with some cheap samples) this week...

If i add the lines of all different versions and trials, i have written more than 10.000 lines of code. To bad KSP lack some features making such projects a lot easier.

There is still a lot to do. In my rewritten version i left out all automation i already had in the old version...but it will be back  

And than: I'll finally start sampling. Yeah


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## Thonex (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*



Dynamitec @ Mon Jun 26 said:


> Hi! Some new samples: I now have 5 Strumming modes (still no pattern mode).
> Down, Up, Alternate, Alternate Ext(ended) I, Alternate Ext II...you just have to play some chords. My script try to play it like a guitarist would do.
> 
> Alternate: Change directions everytime a new chord is played:
> ...



Some great features!!!


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## Dynamitec (Jun 30, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*

Hi! Now Patternmode works  You can choose 7 Patterns, each with 5 Variations (if you play a chord with 2 notes Variation 2, if you play chord with 3 notes Variation 3, etc)...
The played pattern are following your time signature (say 4/4, 7/8, 12/8)...so there are even more combinations.






You can easily set up:

Strummdirection: 

Down, Up, Alternate, Alternate Extendend I and II and Patternmode.

That means: for each chord you play you could choose more than 40 different playstyles! And: almost everything has a nice automatic modus (so you don't have to choose but it's still sounds realistic).

Picking:

Picking can set to: Up, Down, Alternate or Auto. Auto means the picking is following your strummdirection. (Sweeping for Arpeggios, everything works automaticly).

Puhh...now i'll do the next step: samples...and releasesample management.


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## Thonex (Jun 30, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*

Hey Dyn,

It's great watching you create this whole thing from scratch. All your ideas seem very well thought out and quite comprehensive. From the sounds of it, you'll have a great engine from which to drive your samples. I truly wish you the best of luck with this project... it seems very exciting.

Cheers,

T


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## Dynamitec (Jun 30, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*

Hi T!

Thank you! It's the most challenging music project i ever did...

I made a new sample with odd time signature 5/8 (a little flamenco like  Those are EXACTLY the same notes as in the mp3s I postet last time. All strumming etc. is calculated automaticly.
Ok, it still sounds computer like, but i still only use one little sample from the KSP Guitar...imagine how it will sound with a whole tone sampled guitar (and fret and release noises of course)...

http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/5_8_demo.mp3

PS: Did i ever mentioned my guitar will work together with SIPS polyphon (!)...legato chord slides...hehe...


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## Thonex (Jun 30, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*

I thought of an idea for you regarding your strumming algo.

I just tried it out and I find it has a lot of potential... one thing that might give a better (or maybe more flexible) illusion is to have the strumming velocity (or volume) decrease slightly as in the direction you are playing. 

In other words, if you are strumming down, usually the top string will be the loudest because it is the first note you hit and the plectrum then gives way a little making the other string a little less loud. This of course could easily be implemented and could be user definable. 

Depending on how many velocity layer you have, maybe velocity would be the way to go... other wise a change_vol() statement would also give the illusion.

Right now, the strumming is too consistent across all the strings.

My opinion.

Great job though.

Cheers,

T


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## Thonex (Jun 30, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*



Dynamitec @ Fri Jun 30 said:


> PS: Did i ever mentioned my guitar will work together with SIPS polyphon (!)...legato chord slides...hehe...


Cool!!

It will probably sound a little more like a pedal steel because there will be no fret trasitions during the slide with SIPS.

T


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## Dynamitec (Jun 30, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*

Hi T!

Thank you...you're absolutly right! I already had this on my list...but since there was so much new ideas i didn't implemented this now.


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## Dynamitec (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*

Hi everybody! 

Hi Thonex, i now have build in what you wrote last time...

Here another small mp3 (still with only on guitar sample!). At moment i try to mimic a guitar as much as possible with only on sample mapped. I think thats the best way to "tune" my script before starting to do the real samples... it could only get better this way 

This samples show how my automatic strumming follow tempochanges etc... (so there is a very untight "virtual guitarist" in this example just to show this effect 

Btw: this mp3 shows sustain-mode (sustain pedal pressed). Every string sounds as long as it sample is or till a new note is played on this string (or it is muted => of course with release sound)...

http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/akkustiklike.mp3

To get this, i wrote this notes:


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## Dynamitec (Jul 3, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*

Hi Thonex!

Here is another strummingexample: 

http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/strumming.mp3

What do you think?

Don't forget: there is only one guitar sample (a2) mapped from c1 to c6 lol! 

I'm now almost finsished with my script...keyswitchs are missing, almost everything else is working (Humanizer, Patternmode, Sustain-, Arpeggio- and Standardmode are finished too)...

BTW: As i working on an e-guitar strumming shouldn't be that much important, but i think it should be possible...


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## Thonex (Jul 3, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*

Hey Dyn

It sounds much better.... even with 1 sample I can hear the dynamics sound more natural. WHen you have smaples for all of those sctiongs it should sound great!!!


In addition to the first strings struck being louder, are you going to add RND change_vol () to the other notes in a strummed or are you going to have round robin or something like that?

Great work Dyn!

Cheers,

T


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## Thonex (Jul 3, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*



Dynamitec @ Sun Jul 02 said:


> This samples show how my automatic strumming follow tempochanges etc... (so there is a very untight "virtual guitarist" in this example just to show this effect Smile



You don't happen to know a formula for THIS do you?

Cheers,

T


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## Dynamitec (Jul 3, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*

Hi Thonex!

Thanks! 

My Humanizer works for all modes (Singlenotes, Chords, Arpeggios, Sustain, etc.). You can adjust (random) timing, (random) velocity and strumming (how the volume changes from first to the last string)

I'm going to have round rubin (3 samples for every sampled position on every string and every articulation). 

Here is a new screenshot (everything you see is working):






BTW: I get interpreter stack overflows now...had to optimize a lot of on init stuff...i think you may online have 1200 lines or something in on init :(


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## Dynamitec (Jul 3, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*



> You don't happen to know a formula for THIS do you?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> T



Sorry, no :( I was looking for this, too... maybe we should ask NI :roll: :lol: :shock:


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## Thonex (Jul 3, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*



Dynamitec @ Mon Jul 03 said:


> BTW: I get interpreter stack overflows now...had to optimize a lot of on init stuff...i think you may online have 1200 lines or something in on init :(



Awesome!!

Regarding on init... you obviously have a huge script.... are you noticing any latency issues with such a large script... or is KSP very efficient?

THanks,
T


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## Dynamitec (Jul 3, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*

I'm now at about 3000 lines. So far: no problems with latency altough i have to say i rewrote some parts 3 times to get best performance. CPU time with this 1 sample example: ca. 0-1%...no problems so far. KSP seems to be fast. I tested it with 6 instruments all with my script...still only ca 0-1% CPU. (Leaving editor open now: 100% CPU...lol, to bad i thought it was fixed..).

For chord stuff and polyphon stuff it is the best way to lock all callbacks with notes that are polyphon and calculate the whole chord only once (as i wrote some posts earlier). I can run my script with 1ms (wait() time) latency and no problems so far! In perfview mode the ui is even faster.


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## Dynamitec (Jul 3, 2006)

*Re: My guitar project: Early Alpha download .NKM*

Hi Thonex! Hi everybody!

You can check out latency yourself 

Here is the beta (now with 2 (!) samples :shock: LOL, i definitly should start sampling...

http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/gscript_beta.zip

Check out the UI  It's intelligent. It checks if combinations are playable, it remembers settings, etc... just try. :

Here some autochord samples (4 chords played, only 3 keys pressed at once). 
There is only 1 guitar sample mapped over the whole keyboard!

Automatic Patternmodes:

Pattern 0: http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/pattern0.mp3
Pattern 1: http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/pattern1.mp3
Pattern 2: http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/pattern2.mp3
Pattern 3: http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/pattern3.mp3
Pattern 4: http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/pattern4.mp3
Pattern 5: http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/pattern5.mp3
Pattern 6: http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/pattern6.mp3

Automatic Strumming:

Dn: http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/strumming_down.mp3
Up: http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/strumming_up.mp3

Automatic Autorepeat modus:

Dn: http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/autorepeat_down.mp3
Up: http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/autorepeat_up.mp3
Alternate : http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/autorepeat_alternate.mp3
Alternate Extendend I : http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/autorepeat_alternate_ext1.mp3
Alternate Extendend II : http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/b-fast/autorepeat_alternate_ext2.mp3


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## Dynamitec (Jul 5, 2006)

My Guitarproject in Numbers:

Parameters to set up: more than 100!

All parameter can be saved to 8 presets slots (switched via Keyswitch!)

You can finetune almost every playstyle: For exmaple fading time between notes in different modes (Standard, Sustain, Arpeggio). 

Almost every parameter can be set up to work automaticly. For example: Autoalternate. If two notes can be played up or downstroke because they are too fast, autoalternation is switched on. And this works for the strummingdirection on chords too. Or if a arpeggio is played too fast, autosweep is switched on. The notes are now sweeped (one note arpeggio or chord become two notes (played via alternate picking).

My script can automaticly play TWO following chords in 48 different variatons!

The UI is (almost) finished now. Huminizer is finshed, Presetsystem is working...only keyswitches and intelligent round rubin are missing.

This week my script should be finished and than i start sampling...i think it will take minimum two or three month. I calculated what samples i need...12000... :O( A LOT OF WORK. There will be 3 different variations from every single sample (with intelligent round rubin)... so 3 guitars (left, middle, right) could be used without any phasing problems.


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## Dynamitec (Jul 5, 2006)

PS: I'm going to write manuals for almost every techique i used in this script (and of course: every problem i had and the solution i found).
I'd like to share my expirience with this project. 

I now have more than 4000 lines of code... and i tried to write it as readable as possible. I definitly will share a lot of this script when my project is finished. So: be prepared  Hehe...


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