# Violin Mic Recommendations



## einei (Oct 4, 2015)

hey guys,

I'm looking to buy a mic. It's main purpose is to record my violin. I did some research myself and the best choice seems to be a small diaphragm condenser or a ribbon mic. My local music shop guy recommended the Royer101 or the earthworks SR 25. The Royer101 is at a reduced price and a good ribbon mic and apparently the earthworks SR 25 is good warm sounding, versatile small diaphragm condenser. 
What are you guys opinion on that? Do you have any recommendations you want to share? The price range should be 700-900 Euro but obviously if there is anything cheaper then even better 

Thank you so much for your help! I wish I could contribute more knowledge and not just ask questions... This is a great place.

Cheers


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## thesteelydane (Oct 4, 2015)

The Avantone CV-28 is a tube SDC, budget friendly, and sounds incredible on my violin. For a budget ribbon check out the golden age project R1 active, mk 3. It's dirt cheap and sounds fantastic, especially if you upgrade with the Lundahl transistor they also sell.


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## thesteelydane (Oct 4, 2015)

Keep in mind though, that having an electrical ground is critical to avoid hum on tube condensers. I had to install a DIY earth in my house to be able to use the CV 28


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## einei (Oct 11, 2015)

thanks for the recommendations! 

Does anyone have an opinion about the 2 mics I mentioned?


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## Hannes_F (Oct 11, 2015)

Any opinion about the 2 mics would depend on your recording circumstances. And on your instrument, and on your taste and purpose (what you are aiming for). There is no real alternative to trying mics in your room, unfortunately.

I had a time when I spent months with reading about microphones. However one (1) recorded scale tells me more (give me 5 minutes with the mic and I know whether I can use it).

Some general musings about that topic:

Some will say that ribbons are ideal for violin, some don't like them. It really depends.

BTW I saw a comment in the other forum that small diaphragm mics like the earthworks would tend to sound hard. Not true here. I have a number of mini diaphragm (smaller than usually small) mics (Earthworks, LineAudio, Little Blondies) and they have a tendency towards sounding very natural. You have to watch the noise floor though. (Mini diaphragm is my term, nothing official).

So far you have received mic recommendations that are all good but more on the "fancy" side. Ribbon mics and tube mics are supposed to "do something" with the sound while Earthworks mics are made to be "ultra realistic" at the price of picking up much room and being noisy.

I wonder why your sales person did not recommend you to start with the sober basic for string recordings: high quality small condensers. The classics would be Schoeps, DPA (the expensive ones from their portfolio), Sennheiser MKH, the expensive Neumanns like KM133. I can say that these are microphones that always deliver. In the second row but close are Beyer, MBHO, AudioTechnica, AKG, Shure, the less expensive Neumanns KM18x. I have tested all except Neumann KM13x and imho you generally get what you pay for.


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## einei (Oct 11, 2015)

Hi Hannes, 

thanks a lot for chiming in! I need something that sounds warm and intimate, I don't always have a good room so that makes the choice a little harder. You are probably right, you just have to try them out.... this is getting more harder than i thought


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## thesteelydane (Oct 12, 2015)

I agree with Hannes, it's always best to try it out. I have purchased mics after months of careful research, reading reviews etc and been thoroughly disappointed. If they won't let you test it at home, bring your violin to the shop and record something there. Or is it an online purchase? I will also say that could can't really go wrong with a Royer Labs, even if this is the cheapest they make. Just keep in mind that ribbon mics are figure 8 by nature, so it will pick up a lot of room sound. The standard mic for recording violin is, as Hannes point out, a small diaphragm condenser. I'm still working my way up the food chain of mics, so I don't have any of the top end ones he mentions in my own studio yet, but I have done many pro sessions both as an orchestra musician and in smaller studios, so I have observed what the pro engineers use. 90 % of the orchestra sessions have used the DPA's on the Decca tree, and either DPA's or Neumann SDC's as violin section spot mics. Almost all studio sessions I've done have used either Schoepps or Neumann SDC's or a Royer Labs or Coles ribbon for violin. Every single time. That's a guideline I guess, if your budget can stretch that far, but again nothing beats trying stuff out. It's entirely feasible that a cheaper mic will sound better on your particular violin and room - you just have to find it.


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## einei (Oct 12, 2015)

Hey Steelydane, 

yes I've been reading a lot now and you are right that seems to be the standard. Unfortunately it's hard to try out mics here. Most of the shops I called have to order them for you (which is surprising, I live in Berlin not somewhere in the countryside  ) 

You both mentioned the small condensers, I'm wondering if they will not sound too harsh. I guess I'll just have to buy one and try it out. 

Hannes, since you have a lot of experience, any specific small condensers that you really like?


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## sleepy hollow (Oct 12, 2015)

einei said:


> You both mentioned the small condensers, I'm wondering if they will not sound too harsh.


Hannes said that already, small diaphragm condensers aren't necessarily harsh sounding little beasts. I've done lots of recordings with Sennheiser MKH series mics. The MKH 40 is one of my favorite tools - that one is very small. It looks a bit cheap too. In fact, the price tag is bigger than the actual microphone, so sit down before requesting a quote for that particular mic.


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## Hannes_F (Oct 12, 2015)

There is no reason why a small diaphragm microphone should sound harsh. Actually, the ideal microphone would be a point with the size zero.

The problems with microphones in general for recording a violin are twofold:
1. Many microphones have a presence boost if they are designed for speech/vocal, especially large diaphragm microphones. This is something to avoid for violin.
2. Most microphones have an irregular frequency response for off-axis angles (the sound that comes from the room). This can be a huge problem for acoustical recordings, and here is where it costs real money if you want a mic that avoids that. Usually this starts > 1000 EUR.

Mics that I like for violin:
DPA 4006
Sennheiser MKH 40
Sennheiser MKH 8020

Next thing I will buy is a Schoeps MKx (I have worked with them before but they were rented).


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## synthpunk (Oct 12, 2015)

Take a look at Royer, AEA, or Coles Ribbon Mics. Note with ribbon mics you will need a mic preamp with lots of gain. This can help as well. http://cloudmicrophones.com/cloud12/products/cloudlifter-cl-1/

If you cannot afford the big boys right now you could experiment with some of the more inexpensive ribbon mics out there. Often there are mods available for many of them that take them to the next level like adding a Lundahl transformer for ie.

LD Tube mics work great as well. The SE5600 is very good for the money.
http://www.seelectronics.com/z5600a-ii-tube-mic/

And one other factor is how good these mics will work on other sources such as brass, guitar, and piano.


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## einei (Oct 12, 2015)

thanks a lot everyone! I think i need to set my priorities a little bit so I'll have to settle with something a little less expensive than the "big boys". My room is not that great either so I think at the moment it's a little pointless spending tons of money on a mic that won't sound good because of the room. Since I don't want to buy a preamp now just for a ribbon I'll look at the mid range small condensers and take it from there. The Avantone looks interesting, will check that out. 

Steelydane, I listened to your tracks, great playing! I really like the string quartet


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## Hannes_F (Oct 12, 2015)

einei, if you are living in Berlin then you can rent mics for a day for a test.


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## einei (Oct 12, 2015)

Yep, I already contacted a place and I will rent an Sennheiser MKH40 (and a bunch of other mics) and now I'm scared that I'll be so impressed by it, that I'll throw all my money at it


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## wst3 (Oct 12, 2015)

Just to reinforce... "it depends!"

It depends on your instrument(s), the space(s) in which you'll record, your musical tastes, the music you are recording, and so on. The best bet is to beg/borrow/rent/ a few microphones and find out which ones work for you.

For some genres (and instruments) I really like a ribbon microphone, specifically my Royer SF-12. But if I need a more present sound I will switch to a small capsule cardiod condensor, specifically the Earthworks SR77 or an AKG C-451. Sometimes I want a "bigger than life" sound, in which case a large capsule condensor is the right tool. I like the Neumann TLM-193, although sometimes it is a bit too neutral (as if that was possible), in which case I'll use a U47, U87, or a clone thereof.

But that is my ears, and the instruments I record, in the spaces where I record, for the music I record... I really do wish this was simpler!


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## thesteelydane (Oct 12, 2015)

Hey thanks einei, appreciate it! Some of those tracks where recorded with the CV-28, I can send you some dry samples in a PM if you're interested, but that won't tell you how it's going to sound on your violin in your room. I have found the hyper cardioid capsule on it to be a bit of secret weapon. It has by far the flattest frequency responce of the 3 it comes with, and as Hannes pointed out, you definitely don't want anything with a presence bump on a violin - that almost always sounds nasty. It also helps to eliminate a lot of room sound, if you're in a less than ideal room. 

I'd love to live in Berlin someday, to me it is THE city to be an artist in, and I have good friends there. I can - maybe - hook you up with an audio engineer there (friend of a friend), who records mostly classical stuff. He can probably help you out.


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## einei (Oct 14, 2015)

Hey steelydane, 

that would be great! I'll send you a PM. Berlin is a great city. But lately it feels like it's getting more and more expensive by the hour  Still very happy to live here..


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## jneebz (Oct 14, 2015)

Not to muddy the waters here, but the violin part in this track was recorded with this Apogee Mic in a home office with no significant sound treatment:
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/mic

May or may not be your flavor, but I loved the warmth and clarity I got from the mic. Nice bite on the bow, too. I think the only processing I did to the dry track was some mild EQ and added QL spaces reverb to taste:


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## Hannes_F (Oct 27, 2015)

... and, einei, did you rent or buy something?


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## einei (Nov 7, 2015)

Hannes_F said:


> ... and, einei, did you rent or buy something?


Hey Hannes, 

I just came back from a 2 week trip to Asia, I'm planning some stuff next week, will let you know how it went


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