# StaffPad and Lasso tool



## Pseudonym

I have just started using StaffPad (as a novice) on a 2021 iPad Pro with an Apple Pencil 2. I can see how gradually my handwriting will adapt to the method recommended for note entry. The Lasso tool, however, seems very unreliable. Half the time I _clearly and distinctly_ circle a few notes, nothing happens, and I have to try repeatedly before the notes are selected, if they ever are at all. Am I doing something wrong? I _am_ making sure that the loop is closed. Thanks for any suggestions.

_[EDIT- This helps: Now I know to circle all parts of notes in their entirety, *including* their stems]_


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## jadi

Pseudonym said:


> I have just started using StaffPad (as a novice) on a 2021 iPad Pro with an Apple Pencil 2. I can see how gradually my handwriting will adapt to the method recommended for note entry. The Lasso tool, however, seems very unreliable. Half the time I _clearly and distinctly_ circle a few notes, nothing happens, and I have to try repeatedly before the notes are selected, if they ever are at all. Am I doing something wrong? I _am_ making sure that the loop is closed. Thanks for any suggestions.


0important you encircle all the noties completely


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## Jett Hitt

Pseudonym said:


> I have just started using StaffPad (as a novice) on a 2021 iPad Pro with an Apple Pencil 2. I can see how gradually my handwriting will adapt to the method recommended for note entry. The Lasso tool, however, seems very unreliable. Half the time I _clearly and distinctly_ circle a few notes, nothing happens, and I have to try repeatedly before the notes are selected, if they ever are at all. Am I doing something wrong? I _am_ making sure that the loop is closed. Thanks for any suggestions.


The Lasso tool is a mess right now. Sometimes it doesn't function at all for me, and other times it only selects half of what I selected. It is very frustrating.


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## jim2b

Also, don’t press too hard. It turns the pencil into an eraser.


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## Pseudonym

@jim2b , I have the pressure-sensitive erase function disabled for the time being. Instead, I tap on the icons for erase and lasso, while I'm learning how to use the iPad (and iOS), the Apple pencil and StaffPad. It's a bit of a challenge, all of the above being new to me. With the lasso, I find that if I'm careful to enclose all of the notes, including all of their stems, it is more likely that it will function as expected.


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## jim2b

It was challenging for me also, but I find that I just keep getting better at it.

I love the program. Good luck!


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## zolhof

Pseudonym said:


> With the lasso, I find that if I'm careful to enclose all of the notes, including all of their stems, it is more likely that it will function as expected.


Yes, StaffPad expects you to enclose all of the notes, stems and flags, which is very counterintuitive at first. I wish it only required note heads and allowed us to add notes to selection. I'm conditioning myself to slowly lasso every object I need to avoid doing it twice. I hope the next big update will bring a number of workflow improvements.


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## mopsiflopsi

Even when you encircle the stems and flags it can still have troubles with figuring out what you want selected if the line is too close to the notes. Try to give it a wider margin if you can. .


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## Pseudonym

I still am having trouble. Yes, I have the correct voice selected, but apparently that doesn't seem to matter anyway. I have voice 2 notes pushed way up out of the way lest I inadvertently select them, since there doesn't seem to be any way of limiting selections to a single voice:
View attachment 20210809_224153~2_compress.mp4


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## sundrowned

It should only select the voice you're in. At least that's the case on windows. Even if I encircle the complete second voice it doesn't select it if I'm in the first. 

View attachment Lasso-1.mp4


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## Pseudonym

Thanks @sundrowned , I can see it functioning as I would expect in your video, but as you can see from mine, the notes are not being selected at all. This is the current model iPad. This is particularly frustrating, as the only reason I bought an iPad at all was to be able to use musical notation handwriting recognition.
It may be that Staffpad is not the ideal tool for writing piano reductions (my chief interest), as both staves are typically multi-voiced, and the ability to work solely in one voice without having to worry about messing up another is really a necessity.
But you are clearly not having such difficulties, so I'm kind of at my wit's end here. Thanks anyway.


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## jadi

I have an ipad 2020 and lasso tool no probleem for me. Hope you can figure out wat is the problem


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## sundrowned

Pseudonym said:


> Thanks @sundrowned , I can see it functioning as I would expect in your video, but as you can see from mine, the notes are not being selected at all. This is the current model iPad. This is particularly frustrating, as the only reason I bought an iPad at all was to be able to use musical notation handwriting recognition.
> It may be that Staffpad is not the ideal tool for writing piano reductions (my chief interest), as both staves are typically multi-voiced, and the ability to work solely in one voice without having to worry about messing up another is really a necessity.
> But you are clearly not having such difficulties, so I'm kind of at my wit's end here. Thanks anyway.


I think maybe you need to make a wider lasso around the notes than in your video.


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## Pseudonym

Thanks; I'll keep trying....especially now that I've put $1300+ towards this project.


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## Martin S

sundrowned said:


> It should only select the voice you're in. At least that's the case on windows. Even if I encircle the complete second voice it doesn't select it if I'm in the first.
> 
> View attachment Lasso-1.mp4


@Pseudonym For what it’s worth, I have similar setup as you (iPad Pro 2021 and Pencil 2) and the lasso-ing works as in Sundrowned’s video, and is also completely voice independent. Strange problem you have there…You may want to open a support ticket with StaffPad Support. Alternatively, and although a bit drastic, it might be worth considering re-installing StaffPad, given how vital this function is to your writing.


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## Pseudonym

Martin S said:


> @Pseudonym For what it’s worth, I have similar setup as you (iPad Pro 2021 and Pencil 2) and the lasso-ing works as in Sundrowned’s video, and is also completely voice independent. Strange problem you have there…You may want to open a support ticket with StaffPad Support. Alternatively, and although a bit drastic, it might be worth considering re-installing StaffPad, given how vital this function is to your writing.


Thanks, @Martin S . I will in fact go ahead and uninstall and reinstall Staffpad, since there's not much beyond basic exercises at this point that I've worked on. I really also don't want to make a fuss until I'm absolutely sure that my problems aren't primarily user error.


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## sundrowned

Pseudonym said:


> It may be that Staffpad is not the ideal tool for writing piano reductions (my chief interest), as both staves are typically multi-voiced, and the ability to work solely in one voice without having to worry about messing up another is really a necessity.


Tbh it's probably not ideal for that. I sometimes use staffpad to make reductions but only very simple ones and often spread over multiple staves. It's much more of a composition sketching tool than a notation one. I wonder if the new dorico app would be better for reductions. Or the new sibelius one. (I don't have either)


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## Pseudonym

@sundrowned , A person over on the Staffpad FB group also voiced similar thoughts concerning the suitability of Staffpad for my particular task. I'd be willing to use whatever app is best suited to piano engraving, be it Windows, Mac, or iPadOS. Staffpad just looked ideal, as I never felt the QWERTY keyboard was an ideal fit for music, and mouse entry is a slog. 
I also realize that for most, excellent audio realization of scores is a priority, but it does make the free entry of notes and other musical data on the page much more restricted. I sometimes wish there were a _graphic-only_ mode that would allow the placement of _any_ symbol _anywhere_ on the page!


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## Pseudonym

I've been having better luck lately. The discrete voices within a staff don't really have a specific musical intent; they just allow me to write different rhythms within a single measure that otherwise would be impossible. If the voices move close together in the identical rhythm, they can continue to be written as chords in a single voice, i.e. I can enter/exit multivoice passages without having to be concerned about providing rests when a voice is inactive. The other thing is that it takes a little planning when writing closely spaced chords: Do I start from the bottom or the top? Often it seems to work better if I just put a single note in place initially and then add notes along the same stem.


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## Jett Hitt

Pseudonym said:


> I've been having better luck lately. The discrete voices within a staff don't really have a specific musical intent; they just allow me to write different rhythms within a single measure that otherwise would be impossible. If the voices move close together in the identical rhythm, they can continue to be written as chords in a single voice, i.e. I can enter/exit multivoice passages without having to be concerned about providing rests when a voice is inactive. The other thing is that it takes a little planning when writing closely spaced chords: Do I start from the bottom or the top? Often it seems to work better if I just put a single note in place initially and then add notes along the same stem.


When writing pitches, whether in chords or solo, didn't be concerned about the initial pitch. Write a four-note chord, and then just drag it to the pitches you want. It is much simpler than trying to write, for example, a cluster.


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## Pseudonym

Jett Hitt said:


> When writing pitches, whether in chords or solo, didn't be concerned about the initial pitch. Write a four-note chord, and then just drag it to the pitches you want. It is much simpler than trying to write, for example, a cluster.


Thanks, your suggestion is similar to what I've discovered by trial and error: sometimes the best way of entering notes in a complex measure is not the most obvious way. For complex figures in sequence, I frequently lasso the first iteration, and then paste it in the next measure and adjust pitches and accidentals as needed.


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## Jett Hitt

Pseudonym said:


> Thanks, your suggestion is similar to what I've discovered by trial and error: sometimes the best way of entering notes in a complex measure is not the most obvious way. For complex figures in sequence, I frequently lasso the first iteration, and then paste it in the next measure and adjust pitches and accidentals as needed.


With StaffPad, there are many roads to Rome, and unfortunately, the obvious route often isn't the best route. There is no nice way to say it: the note entry is primitive.


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## stmain

Jett Hitt said:


> With StaffPad, there are many roads to Rome, and unfortunately, the obvious route often isn't the best route. There is no nice way to say it: the note entry is primitive.


I keep hoping that some future update will include midi input. Just plug in your piano and away you go. I realize that would probably qualify as a drastic shift in the philosophy of Staffpad, but it would hugely help work flow. I very much believe in what the app is trying to do, and the playback is often truly stunning, but as of now, inputting complex, multi voiced, or chordal material is a real chore.


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## jadi

midi input with keyboard might be trickier than you think. Try for example to input via Logic. The midi you end up is most of the time a mesh because it is not possible to play quantized


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## sundrowned

I've recently been using notion and the note input options are so much better and frankly more relaxing. Much less of 'right let's hope this bar works out'.


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## DCPImages

Ideally midi step input would help - especially because you can stretch/shrink note length by pulling them with the pencil.


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## Pseudonym

OT: I remember back when I was doing some computer programming, 20 years ago, I worked on a project involving step (MIDI) input to produce simple MIDI files. Choose a note/rest length from a palette, and then press an on-screen piano keyboard note. Behind the scenes, so to speak, I was dealing with the serial addition/updates of binary data on several channels. It was a bear. I'm so glad to have someone else handle that stuff here!


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