# Your favourite Brass Library of 2017?



## axb312 (Dec 5, 2017)

For consensus purposes and to help future buyers (including myself). Looking at libraries with solo and ensemble instruments. 

Some aspects I think are important to look at:
1. Inherent/ Dry sample sound
2. Playability
3. Articulations
4. Fit in a mix?
5. Mixes well with libraries from other devs?


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## Henu (Dec 5, 2017)

I´m finally posting here for the first time, so let it be at least somehow useful.

I bought Cinebrass Core + Pro a year ago after using EWQLSO for almost ten years for all my brass needs. (Yes, please don´t punch me hard) After trying it out in a project I fell instantly in love with it and pulled the trigger. To date, I love it. It´s loud, proud and heavy- pretty much as what everyone says.

However, for what it comes to a bit more subtle approach, I have struggled too many projects through trying to make it less epic and bombastic. It´s awesome on the loud stuff (think Poledouris) but every time you want to go more Elfman/ Herrmann- styled arrangements, it´s just so....big, perfect and loud sound. Everything´s superbly in tune, over- the- top and awesome. It´s my #1 brass library for big stuff (like any Cinesamples), but I felt it lacked the subtlety to use it as my only brass library.

So, I bought Strezov´s brass. Which was awesome, because it was....well, kind of bad. :D It´s bombastic, and sports the same characteristics than Cinebrass, but it´s like the _drunken little brother of Cinebrass_, haha! Sometimes so horribly out of tune it´s funny, way less perfected and sounding like it would had been Cinebrass v 0.2 on vodka, but holy hell when stacking them together you got so sweet imperfection- meets- perfection that I did my next three projects with the combination.

Yet, I still lacked then subtlety, the articulations more than staccato and sustain/ legato and something I could use as an allaround library. So I bit the bullet and got myself the Spitfire Brass a week ago after spending literally a couple of months of listening to demos, checking out reviews and searching Vi- Control topics through like a madman. After fooling around with it for a week, I feel it´s exactly what I needed. Yes, the space is HUGE. (And the dry mics sound like crap compared to the wet sound, which has so much character to bring to the sound) And yes, it´s not as "epic" or "HUGE" as Cinebrass. But boy, does it seem to be versatile! So many articulations, and quite a many instruments as well!

Right now I feel the Spitfire Brass will be at least for now my to- go- library and everytime I want to go more Starship Troopers I switch or stack to Cinebrass. I absolutely loved the bells up- articulations, though, so it´s not that Spitfire can´t go all LotR/ Conan- stuff...it´s just a different kind of sound. More human, if you prefer. Smaller. Yet still epic and heroic. At least that´s my impression for now- but who knows, maybe I´ll switch my opinion in the next months?
But after pondering, I pressed the Spitfire on vote, and hopefully after reading this wall of text you see why I decided to do so at the moment!

EDIT: I was a bit hasty and ignored some of the key questions- sorry about that. But as a quick comment at least Cinebrass fits really easily into pretty much everything mix- wise. I´ve blended it with other libraries (more than the abovementioned Strezov), with extreme metal, with folk music, younameit. It blends really well due to the rather round and fat characteristics (you may want to trim some extra lard off from the 200-300 hZ area if you have a busy mix and maybe boost some 7+k area if it doesn´t cut through) and the very well recorded and mixed source material.


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## camelot (Dec 5, 2017)

I have lots of brass from VSL, Cinebrass Core+Pro, Berlin Brass, Chris Hein Brass as well as Spitfire S. Brass and they all have their pros and cons. I think this is the reason why I ended up having so many of them. I have yet to find one which works completely on its own without needing me to bring in patches from other libs. If I would be asked to live with only one, I would not know which one to choose, really. 
The legato of the horns and some trumpet patches from Cinebrass are to die for but you don't get much articulations per instrument, but you get mutes as well when you go pro. The legato patches are the best playable patches of all those libs. 
The short notes in Berlin Brass are brilliant (they even offer staccato and staccatissimo, I use both frequently which offers a lot of variety) but the longs do not work for me and the legato as well as the crossfading between the velocity layers sounds better in Cinebrass. Having the individual instruments of each group is plus for choral writing which is more common for brass than one might think and the sample world seems to make you believe. But you can get this from VSL as well. The con is that you have to deal with a lot if instruments which takes time and of all things, the instrument patches of BerlinBrass, even with fully purged samples, are extreme resource hogs compared to the others. 
SSB has a good collection of articulations and is very versatile. Not all instrument offer legato and some legato does not sound half as good as with Cinebrass. The sound of the recorded hall is very wet but very good. The horns are almost to wet for me here. The tubas in SSB are my absolute favorite. 
Chris Hein offers an incredible lot of articulations and options. It has this phase aligned samples for different velocity layers to avoid phasing effects. But they sound strange to me if I crossfade between the layers. The individual layers sound good though. It is missing the tuba and offers only a marginal collection of instruments compared to the other collections. 
VSL offers a lot of articulations and you can buy almost all kinds of brass instrument individually. However, you have to work to make them sound good and they are already a bit old and you can hear it in comparison to the other libs. Their sample player is the best with astonishing flexibility as soon as you wrap your head around it.


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## Fleer (Dec 5, 2017)

I’ve got Hollywood Brass Diamond and Kirk Hunter Concert Brass 2 (on sale now). Love them both.


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## benmrx (Dec 5, 2017)

If I had to choose only one, it would be Spitfire Symphonic Brass.


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## axb312 (Dec 6, 2017)

Interesting that Cinebrass, which hasn't been properly updated in a while and doesn't have as much dynamic range (from what I've read so far) is among the most popular right now...


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## ghandizilla (Dec 6, 2017)

I have only Cinebrass and Sample Modeling, so I concur with everything that has been said. CineBrass works very well with mf to ff dynamics. For more flexibility and mp to pp stuff, I use Sample Modeling instruments.


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## constaneum (Dec 6, 2017)

axb312 said:


> Interesting that Cinebrass, which hasn't been properly updated in a while and doesn't have as much dynamic range (from what I've read so far) is among the most popular right now...



Legato patches I opt for cinebrass but other than that, I always fall back to Hollywood Brass which I find it very versatile and nice sounding


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## axb312 (Dec 6, 2017)

I personally think Century Brass sounds really nice...nobody seems to have much to say about it though....:(


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## artomatic (Dec 6, 2017)

axb312 said:


> I personally think Century Brass sounds really nice...nobody seems to have much to say about it though....:(



I'm vacillating between SSB and Century Brass Bundle at the moment in terms of which one to purchase. Pretty impressed with CBB demos and walkthroughs.


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## Paul T McGraw (Dec 6, 2017)

I own Berlin Brass, Chris Hein Brass, Cinebrass, Cinebrass Pro and the entire VSL Brass Bundle full library. I like the sound of Berlin Brass and the Berlin Brass concept of recording each of the 11 members of the standard orchestra independently. If one is careful in using it, Berlin Brass can sound great. You have to use CC7 volume control in addition to CC1 for dynamics to get a full piano to fortissimo dynamic range.

VSL Brass is completely dry, which is both its strength and its weakness. You either need to buy MIR Pro or be an expert mixing engineer to get the most out of VSL instruments. But properly mixed, it sounds every bit as good as Berlin Brass, uses only 10% of the ram, has more articulations, and the wonderful Vienna Instruments player which is a truly amazing sample player with infinite customization possible.


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## mikehamm123 (Dec 6, 2017)

axb312 said:


> 5. Mixes well with libraries from other devs?



as in 'plays well with others'?


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## Britpack50 (Dec 6, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> I own Berlin Brass, Chris Hein Brass, Cinebrass, Cinebrass Pro and the entire VSL Brass Bundle full library. I like the sound of Berlin Brass and the Berlin Brass concept of recording each of the 11 members of the standard orchestra independently. If one is careful in using it, Berlin Brass can sound great. You have to use CC7 volume control in addition to CC1 for dynamics to get a full piano to fortissimo dynamic range.
> 
> VSL Brass is completely dry, which is both its strength and its weakness. You either need to buy MIR Pro or be an expert mixing engineer to get the most out of VSL instruments. But properly mixed, it sounds every bit as good as Berlin Brass, uses only 10% of the ram, has more articulations, and the wonderful Vienna Instruments player which is a truly amazing sample player with infinite customization possible.



It's interesting, as a noob, that VSL seems to get relatively little mention of late when these kinds of comparisons are being made. Is it perceived as having been the at the vanguard but now left behind, or actually so ubiquitous it's almost forgotten about? No criticism, just an observation. And hence, very interested in your positive comments on the Brass lib.


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## Paul T McGraw (Dec 6, 2017)

Britpack50 said:


> It's interesting, as a noob, that VSL seems to get relatively little mention of late when these kinds of comparisons are being made. Is it perceived as having been the at the vanguard but now left behind, or actually so ubiquitous it's almost forgotten about? No criticism, just an observation. And hence, very interested in your positive comments on the Brass lib.



There are quite a few members on this forum who hate VSL and never have anything good to say about any of their products. I will not attempt to speak for the VSL haters, they will show up soon I'm sure. Instead, I will list several facts that might cause VSL to be less popular than other libraries.

1) VSL has been around for years, and all of us are drawn to exciting new products.
2) VSL is very dry and needs mixing to sound best, all the new products are wet and sound at least OK out of the box, without any additional eq, reverb or other treatments.
3) VSL is sampled with a classical sound in mind. Great for music from the classical masters or John Williams scores. Not that great for the Zimmer type of thing popular for films these days.
4) VSL is very, very expensive. For their "full" products the most expensive samples on the market.
5) VSL sells crippled inexpensive versions of their libraries called "Special Editions" which are hard to use effectively. Beginners buy these, post tracks using them, and get themselves and VSL ripped apart as sounding terrible. People start to think all VSL products are going to sound bad.

The VSL people are aware of all of this and have started to produce "wet" libraries. They released an extremely thorough "wet" percussion library and will release their first "wet" strings library sometime in December 2017, I hope. I already paid for it.


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## dhlkid (Dec 6, 2017)

I mix & match the following 
Cinebrass Pro 
Hollywood Brass
Berlin Brass 
Symphonic Brass 
Dimension Brass 
Epic Horn


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## cyrilblanc (Dec 6, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> There are quite a few members on this forum who hate VSL and never have anything good to say about any of their products.




VSL products are very good but expensive, there player Pro is fabulous for legato and repetitive notes*, you do not have to spend hours to mix your orchestra if you use MIR PRO** ; but the problem is there marketing policy : 
If your dongle is stollen, burned, lost.. you have to re-pay 50 % of the library you have !!!!! :faint:

Best

Cyril

* the player PRO can be set to play the same note with a little differences so the expression is more natural
** Mir Pro handles the placement of each instrument, it's EQ and it's reverberation in the concert hall, so you get a good mix with nothing to do. You can alter Mir Pro parameters if you like !


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## noxtenebrae17 (Dec 6, 2017)

I own Berlin Brass, Spitfire Brass, Hollywood Brass, Metropolis Ark I, EWQLSO, CineBrass Core & Pro, and most of VSL's Brass.

Here is my usage of each:

Berlin Brass: 80%
Metropolis Ark I: 5%
Spitfire Brass: 5%
CineBrass: 10%
VSL & Hollywood Brass: 0%

Berlin Brass really was a game changer in my library. It is just so well programmed and it has all of the right articulations, recorded in just the right way. It takes place of most things, unless I'm going for a full tilt sound. Then Spitfire and CineBrass come in. But I absolutely love the way that Berlin Brass was put together, even if the sustains aren't super loud (I use the marcatos instead). CineBrass's tuba is wonderful and I use it for muted articulations as well. Spitfire occasionally comes in for full tilt stuff in the horns, but I generally like the Berlin sound and programming way more.

I will mention that I occasionally use Albion and Loegria to fill out more lyrical passages too. Their mid-brass is pretty wonderful for sketching and adding a bit more width to everything.


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## Saxer (Dec 6, 2017)

My most used brass is Samplemodeling. I like Adventure Brass and the new Caspian as easy to use ensemble libraries. But for single voice per instrument arrangements I found nothing that replaces SM. Probably because of my excessive use of breath- or wind controller. There's nothing else that feels so close to an instrument.


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## BlackDorito (Dec 6, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> 5) VSL sells crippled inexpensive versions of their libraries called "Special Editions" which are hard to use effectively. Beginners buy these, post tracks using them, and get themselves and VSL ripped apart as sounding terrible. People start to think all VSL products are going to sound bad.


This statement does not reflect well on you. It's absurd.


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## Saxer (Dec 6, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> 5) VSL sells crippled inexpensive versions of their libraries called "Special Editions" which are hard to use effectively. Beginners buy these, post tracks using them, and get themselves and VSL ripped apart as sounding terrible. People start to think all VSL products are going to sound bad.


For team work compatibility reasons I worked with the complete Special Edition on a bigger project last year. The music was later recorded by real musicians but the mockups didn't sound bad at all! It's far from a "beginners library". But the weakest part of the Special Edition is the brass. Two dynamic layers are simply not enough for a convincing crescendo. Everything else was really fine.


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## Polkasound (Dec 6, 2017)

BlackDorito said:


> This statement does not reflect well on you. It's absurd.



Actually what Paul was talking about happens with other libraries, too. A limited version of a library might lack sampled articulations that have to be recreated with MIDI, or it might only have two dynamic layers instead of five. In the hands of a beginner, it could result in a pretty scary piece of music that unwitting VI users might interpret as a demo of a nasty-sounding library.


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## I like music (Dec 6, 2017)

Saxer said:


> My most used brass is Samplemodeling. I like Adventure Brass and the new Caspian as easy to use ensemble libraries. But for single voice per instrument arrangements I found nothing that replaces SM. Probably because of my excessive use of breath- or wind controller. There's nothing else that feels so close to an instrument.


Have you ever used SM Brass in a larger context? I've heard a few demos where it sounded pretty good (Rico's Tiny Hero?) so wondered about it. I use HWB for larger stuff, but may try to work something larger with SM Brass. Never really thought about giving it a try.


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## Britpack50 (Dec 7, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> There are quite a few members on this forum who hate VSL and never have anything good to say about any of their products. I will not attempt to speak for the VSL haters, they will show up soon I'm sure. Instead, I will list several facts that might cause VSL to be less popular than other libraries.
> 
> 1) VSL has been around for years, and all of us are drawn to exciting new products.
> 2) VSL is very dry and needs mixing to sound best, all the new products are wet and sound at least OK out of the box, without any additional eq, reverb or other treatments.
> ...



Thanks, very interesting. I guess the question with the upcoming Synchron libs is whether they will differentiate from the other wet libraries (Spitfire, CSS, OT etc.). I guess the player pro and MIR could be important there, although MIR less of a requirement? Pricing of course is the other, giving OT a run for their (or our) money would be interesting.


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## Saxer (Dec 7, 2017)

I like music said:


> Have you ever used SM Brass in a larger context?


Ochestral yes, trailer-epic no.


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## Paul T McGraw (Dec 7, 2017)

Saxer said:


> For team work compatibility reasons I worked with the complete Special Edition on a bigger project last year. The music was later recorded by real musicians but the mockups didn't sound bad at all! It's far from a "beginners library". But the weakest part of the Special Edition is the brass. Two dynamic layers are simply not enough for a convincing crescendo. Everything else was really fine.



I definitely agree that it is possible to create wonderful music with the Special Edition products. It just takes a bit more skill and patience to do so. And one might have to compose "around" some of the weaknesses. I could post some links to marvelous music created with VSL Special Editions but that would be hijacking the thread. My point was that the products have a particular appeal to people new to samples due to the lower cost, and a person new to samples may not have the skill and patience of an experienced person such as yourself. 

I love the VSL instruments. Especially the brass. I know I am in a minority, but despite having purchased many other sample libraries I keep going back to my VSL samples, as they are the absolute best for a "classical" approach IMHO.


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## Paul Grymaud (Dec 7, 2017)

*Mine's favorite (not yet sampled but great sound)*


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## Ihnoc (Dec 7, 2017)

Saxer said:


> But the weakest part of the Special Edition is the brass. Two dynamic layers are simply not enough for a convincing crescendo.



I was under the impression that the VSL Special Editions had the same number of velocity layers in their articulations, but the number of articulations included was less. Additionally the Special Editions were whole tone sampled, not semi tone like the full libraries.

Am I missing something?


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## Rodney Money (Dec 7, 2017)

There is no favorite for me, I mix and match for my different needs. Plus, with reverb and eq I can make the different libraries sound similar and blend with one another:
Here's CineBrass:

Here's VSL:

Orchestral Tool's mutes:

And a mixture of Spitfire trombones and CineBrass Pro's Tbone Solo:


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## Rodney Money (Dec 7, 2017)

I don't have any of the SM products as of yet, but to this day some of the best brass renderings I've heard from others have been when they've combined a dry library like SM with a wet one like CB.


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## nicoroy123 (Dec 7, 2017)

Paul Grymaud said:


> *Mine's favorite (not yet sampled but great sound)*



Is this not the CineBrass 12 Horns patch I see right there ?


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## Rodney Money (Dec 7, 2017)

nicoroy123 said:


> Is this not the CineBrass 12 Horns patch I see right there ?


Absolutely not. That right there is the beautiful, expressive and warm sounds of cornets, alto/ tenor horns, euphoniums, etc.


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## I like music (Dec 7, 2017)

Saxer said:


> Ochestral yes, trailer-epic no.


Perfect. Will give it a try in earnest.


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## Leon Portelance (Dec 7, 2017)

You’re missing Auddict Master Brass and Sample Modeling Brass.


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## Janos McKennitt (Dec 8, 2017)

I like music said:


> Have you ever used SM Brass in a larger context? I've heard a few demos where it sounded pretty good (Rico's Tiny Hero?) so wondered about it. I use HWB for larger stuff, but may try to work something larger with SM Brass. Never really thought about giving it a try.



I use them at the moment quite often in larger contexts. Due to the concept of modelling the individual instruments, you can get a nice large section, BUT in my opinion it's not soudding perfect for the horns. Trombones and Trumpets in ensembles are quite great but I tend to put CineBrass under some sections if it should sound more "epic". But the nice thing is: you get the quite enormous sound of CB, but the legato-feeling of SM.


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## rottoy (Dec 8, 2017)

nicoroy123 said:


> Is this not the CineBrass 12 Horns patch I see right there ?


Nonsense. That's a Roland D-50 brass patch.


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## madfloyd (Dec 8, 2017)

Ihnoc said:


> I was under the impression that the VSL Special Editions had the same number of velocity layers in their articulations, but the number of articulations included was less. Additionally the Special Editions were whole tone sampled, not semi tone like the full libraries.
> 
> Am I missing something?



Same here. ?


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## Jonas Hallstrom (Dec 8, 2017)

Anyone know of a good trumpet patch for soft p parts like John Williams' Saving private Ryan theme?
(12 secs into the track)


And your favorite libraries for soft p or mp parts for brass in general?


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## Janos McKennitt (Dec 8, 2017)

As far as I know the most articulations have just 2 velocity layers and are sampled with whole tone steps instead of halve tone steps. At least this was the situation years ago when SE 1 came out. But I may be mistaken.

@Jonas Hallstrom
Look for Samplemodelling trumpets. They are really good and flexible for that kind of music.


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## Paul T McGraw (Dec 8, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> Absolutely not. That right there is the beautiful, expressive and warm sounds of cornets, alto/ tenor horns, euphoniums, etc.



Wouldn't it be great to have a true "brass band" library with cornet sections, alto/tenor horns and true baritones?


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## Rodney Money (Dec 8, 2017)

Jonas Hallstrom said:


> Anyone know of a good trumpet patch for soft p parts like John Williams' Saving private Ryan theme?
> (12 secs into the track)
> 
> 
> And your favorite libraries for soft p or mp parts for brass in general?



CineBrass Core Trumpet solo was made for that sound.


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## Rodney Money (Dec 8, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Wouldn't it be great to have a true "brass band" library with cornet sections, alto/tenor horns and true baritones?


Yes it would be.


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## I like music (Dec 8, 2017)

Janos McKennitt said:


> I use them at the moment quite often in larger contexts. Due to the concept of modelling the individual instruments, you can get a nice large section, BUT in my opinion it's not soudding perfect for the horns. Trombones and Trumpets in ensembles are quite great but I tend to put CineBrass under some sections if it should sound more "epic". But the nice thing is: you get the quite enormous sound of CB, but the legato-feeling of SM.



Good to hear! I'm very interested in your last sentence, in particular. I might come back to you with some questions one day, if you don't mind!


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## DR BOOWHO (Dec 8, 2017)

Jonas Hallstrom said:


> Anyone know of a good trumpet patch for soft p parts like John Williams' Saving private Ryan theme?
> (12 secs into the track)
> 
> 
> And your favorite libraries for soft p or mp parts for brass in general?



I actually did a mockup of this track and used Berlin Brass I have included a snippet including Brass solo There are 2 flutes that also play with trumpet at start which helps sofrten the sound....

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/hymn-to-the-fallen-mp3.10709/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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