# I have Valhalla Room - what should be my second reverb?



## Yogevs (Nov 22, 2020)

I want to use a second one - as this is something everyone recommends. What should be my second one?
Options I thought of (mainly due to price):
1. Valhalla VintageVerb
2. 7th Heaven (NOT Pro version)
3. Valhalla Shimmer (would that even work?)
4. One of Logic's stock reverbs (which one?)


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## José Herring (Nov 22, 2020)

There's a shootout that Spitfire did. Worth checking out. My top three where Lexicon Native, Exponential Audio and Valhalla Room. Logic's was a close 4th. And funny the hardware verbs came in dead last for me.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

VintageVerb is very much like that Lexicon
7H Non-pro is great too - watch Cory Pelizzari’s lovesong videos 

Another great one is Denise Audio PerfectPlate

AudioDeluxe have a great $49 deal that gets you Exponential Audio R2, PhoenixVerb, Excalibur, all Elements by Izotope, Iris2 synth and Trash2 saturation.
It is the best current reverb deal. R2 alone is worth it, and PhoenixVerb gets you close to that Lexicon sound. All of these reverbs have algorithms that were coded by the guy that did the actual Lexicon software.

R2 is the one José liked.


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## Yogevs (Nov 22, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> VintageVerb is very much like that Lexicon
> 7H Non-pro is great too - watch Cory Pelizzari’s lovesong videos
> 
> Another great one is Denise Audio PerfectPlate



Which of these would go best as a second reverb with Room though?


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## el-bo (Nov 22, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> I want to use a second one - as this is something everyone recommends. What should be my second one?
> Options I thought of (mainly due to price):
> 1. Valhalla VintageVerb
> 2. 7th Heaven (NOT Pro version)
> ...



Not sure about everbody recommending a second reverb (People owning over twenty is a different thing, entirely😉) What do you feel is missing from 'Room', for your needs?


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

It depends on your needs. I’d say get the Izotope / EA deal anyway, it is crazy good and gets you two great reverbs.

Besides that, I’d argue Seventh Heaven is one of the best reverbs I know. It is a convolution reverb yet a flexible one and that Bricasti sound remains great.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

el-bo said:


> Not sure about everbody recommending a second reverb. What do you feel is missing from 'Room', for your needs?


Good question.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)




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## Yogevs (Nov 22, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> It depends on your needs. I’d say get the Izotope / EA deal anyway, it is crazy good and gets you two great reverbs.
> 
> Besides that, I’d argue Seventh Heaven is one of the best reverbs I know. It is a convolution reverb yet a flexible one and that Bricasti sound remains great.



I'm thinking about getting Tonal Balance Bundle - not Music Production Suite - as for my needs (right now) it is not worth the extra $200.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)




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## Saxer (Nov 22, 2020)

+1 for LiquidSonics









Cinematic Rooms Surround & Atmos Reverb Plugin - AAX, VST, AU -


LiquidSonics’ Cinematic Rooms is a surround reverb processor plugin with full Atmos compatibilty. For AAX, AU and VST




www.liquidsonics.com


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## Yogevs (Nov 22, 2020)

el-bo said:


> Not sure about everbody recommending a second reverb (People owning over twenty is a different thing, entirely😉) What do you feel is missing from 'Room', for your needs?



I've seen it being recommended over and over in different videos (Spitfire, etc...) as something the helps glue everything together and sounds more realistic than one reverb.


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## el-bo (Nov 22, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> I've seen it being recommended over and over in different videos (Spitfire, etc...) as something the helps glue everything together and sounds more realistic than one reverb.



Perhaps you're confusing this with the concept of using multiple spaces, timings and distances. For instance, it's often recommended to send signals to a shorter reverb as well as a longer reverb. This helps to define distance and depth etc. But you can do all of that within 'Room'.

Where you might want to look for another reverb would be dependent on what types of music you were interested in making. For instance, if you were looking to make more on the ambient side of things, then there'd be a good case to make for reverbs that do unreal spaces 'better' than what you have.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

el-bo said:


> Perhaps you're confusing this with the concept of using multiple spaces, timings and distances. For instance, it's often recommended to send signals to a shorter reverb as well as a longer reverb. This helps to define distance and depth etc. But you can do all of that within 'Room'.
> 
> Where you might want to look for another reverb would be dependent on what types of music you were interested in making. For instance, if you were looking to make more on the ambient side of things, then there'd be a good case to make for reverbs that do unreal spaces 'better' than what you have.


This is true. Could be done with two instances of Room. There’s a Cory Pelizzari video about that too


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## el-bo (Nov 22, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> This is true. Could be done with two instances of Room. There’s a Cory Pelizzari video about that too



Two instances...or more. Saw someone's EWHO template, t'other day, and could've sworn he was using five or six instances of Spaces II, as sends


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

el-bo said:


> Two instances...or more. Saw someone's EWHO template, t'other day, and could've sworn he was using five or six instances of Spaces II, as sends


Again: true. I meant on a per send basis haha


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## el-bo (Nov 22, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Again: true. I meant on a per send basis haha



I assumed you meant that


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## Nate Johnson (Nov 22, 2020)

Ugh. Reverb. You guys and gals dork out about reverb too much! 

Room and Vintage Verb cover all of my ‘needs’ over here. If I were starting over, I’d probably just pick one.

And like most things, I wouldn’t arbitrarily add more to the ‘plate’ (see what I did there? Haha) unless you identify a specific need.


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## AudioLoco (Nov 22, 2020)

Having at least a couple of good reverb plugins is a good thing. 
Two plugins with same exact settings will sound totally different and will suit different tasks.
The recommendations for the Izotope bundle are great, it is great value at the moment.

My favourite reverbs for orchestral music are VSS3, R4 (which is basically R2 with extra feuteres) and Seventh Heaven (PRO).


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

Geeking out is fun though. But of course we could all be like Tom Holkenborg and ditch everything we own, buy one Rompler and only use DAW stock reverbs and quit this forum.


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## Yogevs (Nov 22, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


>




I think that's the


el-bo said:


> Perhaps you're confusing this with the concept of using multiple spaces, timings and distances. For instance, it's often recommended to send signals to a shorter reverb as well as a longer reverb. This helps to define distance and depth etc. But you can do all of that within 'Room'.
> 
> Where you might want to look for another reverb would be dependent on what types of music you were interested in making. For instance, if you were looking to make more on the ambient side of things, then there'd be a good case to make for reverbs that do unreal spaces 'better' than what you have.



Yes - I guess I meant the two spaces. But I'm also pretty sure I heard it works best with one algorithmic reverb and one convolution.


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## Yogevs (Nov 22, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Geeking out is fun though. But of course we could all be like Tom Holkenborg and ditch everything we own, buy one Rompler and only use DAW stock reverbs and quit this forum.



WHICH REVERB WILL MAKE ME A BETTER COMPOSER??


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> WHICH REVERB WILL MAKE ME A BETTER COMPOSER??


We all know that’s the built in reverb of N.


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## el-bo (Nov 22, 2020)

Nate Johnson said:


> Ugh. Reverb. You guys and gals dork out about reverb too much!
> 
> Room and Vintage Verb cover all of my ‘needs’ over here. If I were starting over, I’d probably just pick one.
> 
> And like most things, I wouldn’t arbitrarily add more to the ‘plate’ (see what I did there? Haha) unless you identify a specific need.



I could do it all in VVV. But I sold that because now I can pretty much do it all in 2CB2. I do use the reverbs that come with my DAW, though, as B2 is hella hungry (I also like some of the weirder stuff in 'Space Designer'). 

I've avoided watching Cory's video on 'Seventh Heaven', though. I imagine that he's going to make a compelling case for it, from a utility point-of-view, and I don't have money for another reverb.


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## el-bo (Nov 22, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> I think that's the
> 
> 
> Yes - I guess I meant the two spaces. But I'm also pretty sure I heard it works best with one algorithmic reverb and one convolution.



I've not heard that, but I'm not sure how that would make sense. Using multiple instances of the same hall or room, tweaking the reflections and tails, will give the cohesion and illusion of instruments performing in the same space, albeit at different points in said space. Using different spaces altogether (Nay, entirely different plugins) would seem counter-intuitive.

Not saying that people don't or shouldn't do that ('cause "if it sounds good..."), just have never heard it, myself.

But again, it does come back to the music you are trying to make. If you are making any music that wouldn't normally be heard in a cohesive space, then do what you want to achieve the result you want. In this case, there'd be nothing wrong with giving all the instruments their own unique spaces, taken from as many different reverbs as you like.


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## merty (Nov 22, 2020)

I enjoy the val. plate most when its suitable. Also the izotope bundle is something I suggested a few times these days; https://www.izotope.com/en/shop/izotope-holiday-bundle.html


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## jcrosby (Nov 22, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> I want to use a second one - as this is something everyone recommends. What should be my second one?
> Options I thought of (mainly due to price):
> 1. Valhalla VintageVerb
> 2. 7th Heaven (NOT Pro version)
> ...


If anything get a reverb that brings something different to the table... Blackhole's a favorite. I also think Raum is waaay underrated, it's pretty similar to Blackhole (without BH's morphing feature). Or if you want to get completely unique demo Adaptiverb.... Supermassive would be a free alternative to BH, Raum, etc... Adaptiverb however really is unique... Kind of impossible not to link an example


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## darcvision (Nov 22, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> If anything get a reverb that brings something different to the table... Blackhole's a favorite. I also think Raum is waaay underrated, it's pretty similar to Blackhole (without BH's morphing feature). Or if you want to get completely unique demo Adaptiverb.... Supermassive would be a free alternative to BH, Raum, etc... Adaptiverb however really is unique... Kind of impossible not to link an example



i wonder what instrument do you used on blackhole? i usually put blackhole on synth or solo instruments to make it sounds more lively, and the weird thing is i always used default presets and only tweak the wet/dry or size. actually i'm not sure if i did it right or wrong, but it actually sounds pretty good.


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## mikrokosmiko (Nov 22, 2020)

Valhalla room was the first reverb I bought. Later I purchased the ones by exponential audio and a few more. I ended using Valhalla again, I don’t know if I have got used to its sound or if it’s the best o the ones I have, but... I only need that one


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## ag75 (Nov 22, 2020)

el-bo said:


> I could do it all in VVV. But I sold that because now I can pretty much do it all in 2CB2. I do use the reverbs that come with my DAW, though, as B2 is hella hungry (I also like some of the weirder stuff in 'Space Designer').
> 
> I've avoided watching Cory's video on 'Seventh Heaven', though. I imagine that he's going to make a compelling case for it, from a utility point-of-view, and I don't have money for another reverb.


What are some of your favorite settings in 2CB2?


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 22, 2020)

iZotope Exponential R4 when it's on sale for $29 is hard to beat
Relab Songig-A is on sale now for ~$79
D16 Spacerek is supposed to be great for room reverb, but a bit heavy on the CPU
Liquidsonics Reverberate 3 is $99 but opens the door to the world of IR reverb - and you can eventually get 3rd party ones, too
Audiority Xenoverb is on sale now

I have Valhalla Vintage Verb and... haven't used it in 6 months probably. I got tired of having to EQ it so carefully to reduce the mud.


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## el-bo (Nov 22, 2020)

ag75 said:


> What are some of your favorite settings in 2CB2?



It's hard to say, as I've not been able to do much in the way of music for a long time. Also, I tend to just click through and find what suits the particular sound, at that particular time. Now that I'm starting to construct some templates, I might indeed have to pin some specific presets down.

What I can say is that I tend to favour the Single engine stuff if I use it for general music duties, but the is more about conserving CPU on my old machine. For sound-design, I tend to go straight to the 'Imagination' expansion pack. But again, choices will be dependent on source material and how dense the rest of the arrangement already is. I really like stuff from 'Mystic Space' and 'Gigantic Space'; also 'Hybrid Delays'. I dunno...It's all good 

But perhaps you're not talking so much about using presets, but are more interested in carving out your own space. Can't really help you with that. I should probably read the manual. At least with a better understanding of the settings it might make it easier to navigate the CPU issue.

Do you have it?


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## ag75 (Nov 22, 2020)

Yes and I use it quite a bit. I'm like you, single engine presets is usually where I start.


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## DovesGoWest (Nov 22, 2020)

for my orchestral side I use 7th heaven and Valhalla room, this was after watching and listening to videoed jake Jackson did with spitfire. All my bbcso core is setup using and instance if each per section and with in each section different levels for longs vs shorts etc.

in the rest of my template I have a series or standard verbs set up for sending anything I like to, theare

Hall: h-delay
Room: abbey road chambers
Plate: abbey road plates
Spring: r-verb

Also remember delays can work like reverbs as well either in parallel or when placed before/after the verb


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## Kent (Nov 22, 2020)

Seventh Heaven (the basic version) has basically completely replaced Valhalla Room for me at this point.


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## RobbertZH (Nov 22, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> I want to use a second one - as this is something everyone recommends. What should be my second one?



That depends:
Probably you want a second reverb that complements your current reverb (rather then being similar in sound and application)?

Dependent of what type of music I make, I use one of these three reverbs:

Valhalla Vintage Verb:
mostly for piano and for pop/rock and non-orchestral music

East/West Quantum Leap Spaces (I still use version 1):
for orchestral instruments and/or music that is orchestral in nature

Although, if I use only one orchestral instrument in a more rock, folk or electronic piece, I may use the in-built reverb of the instrument. For example, Taylor Davis Violin (a Kontakt instrument) has a good sounding reverb builtin where I can select various rooms or halls.

XenoVerb:
special effects reverb, think Brian Eno-like ambient reverbs


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## MauroPantin (Nov 22, 2020)

If you want or need an IR verb, there was a Waves freebie recently that could maybe still be going with IR1.

Otherwise, you already have a "clean" verb with Room. So maybe you could go for something like Valhalla Vintage or Exponential R2 or R4, all of those have a bit more color.


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## Traz (Nov 22, 2020)

I don't know why, but I never see anyone ever talking about or recommending VerbSuite Classics.

It's my absolute favorite reverb plugin and I'm surprised it's not more popular.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 22, 2020)

Seventh Heaven regular or Pro is an awesome set it and forget it reverb.

I’m really digging Neoverb from Izotope, which takes the reverbs from Exponential Audio (plate, room and hall) and adds their AI algorithm and a cool interface to blend and tweak the three different types of reverb.

Valhalla Supermassive is free and great for effect type reverb applications, similar to Blackhole.


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## NoamL (Nov 22, 2020)

I used Valhalla Room a lot on the first season of a project.

After doing a bunch of shootouts during the hiatus I now use QL Spaces 2 for spatialization (only for a few libraries that need it, like Hollywood Strings), and VSS3 for the master tail verb.

For traditional orchestral music, less is more, it's better to use libraries recorded on genuine LA/London stages and throw up your own mic mix using the outriggers and ambient mics to taste. And then just put VSS3 or something similar on the master.

In short money put towards an expensive reverb would be better put towards an expensive orchestral section.


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## JonS (Nov 22, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> I want to use a second one - as this is something everyone recommends. What should be my second one?
> Options I thought of (mainly due to price):
> 1. Valhalla VintageVerb
> 2. 7th Heaven (NOT Pro version)
> ...


7th Heaven standard is good. Also, Exponential Audio R4, R2, Phoenixverb and Nimbus are all excellent!!


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## jcrosby (Nov 22, 2020)

stefandy31 said:


> i wonder what instrument do you used on blackhole? i usually put blackhole on synth or solo instruments to make it sounds more lively, and the weird thing is i always used default presets and only tweak the wet/dry or size. actually i'm not sure if i did it right or wrong, but it actually sounds pretty good.


Mostly the same stuff as well as piano and guitar. In reality it sounds great on anything. Really depends on what you're using it for. For example I've used it to make my own pads from orchestral and organic sounds. I've also used Adaptiverb and Raum for the same thing and they all do a great job, they just sound different form one another.

The factory default's fine. They chose those as the default settings for a reason... Almost certainly to highlight what makes it different from a more traditional reverb. You should to play with the settings even if just for fun though, and should explore the parameter morphing feature... It's pretty cool and unique.


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## ism (Nov 22, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> WHICH REVERB WILL MAKE ME A BETTER COMPOSER??


 Valhalla Room made me a better composer. Once I learned how to reign in the short reflections and add long reflections, the reverb, and how it interacts with the room in the tree & close mics becomes a part of the instrument, in that the nuances of resonance, and the sense of space, the wash of a long tail becomes a part of the instrument. 

In particular in how it fills the "negative space" between notes. For instruments with very nice room tones (ie AIR or Teldex), the long reflections in the Valhalla cathedral reverbs works very nicely. And I do find myself composing "with reverb", in the sense of pauses in the rhythms in particular, can interact with the fading resonance and and the sense size of the space and presence this gives. 

For something like Spitfire Studio Strings, I find it's the short reflections that really affect the stylized the composition. Here's it's a bit more stylized, but the short reflections add a certain nuance. And this affects certain type of harmonic blending and the kinds of tempo and timing that I write towards. Any time you're adding short reflections, you've abandoned a certaint type of realism, and it becomes a bit more stylized. But the size of the reflection and the early/late reflections impact the kinds of lines that can be played to get a nice sound. 

Maybe I could have got this with the built in Logic convolution reverb that I was using at the time, but it started to sound all very static and grating to me. The reverb equivalent of the machine gun effect. 

So no idea where's the best place to go after Valhalla Room. But VR was a really, really good investment vis-a-vis becoming a better composer.


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## Dirtgrain (Nov 22, 2020)

I agree with those who said a convolution reverb would be a good second reverb for you. I love Live Suite's one, but I also got the free Waves one (tons of IRs--but only work with it) and Fog Convolver. Many have demos. I tried Breeze, Reverberate, Seventh Heaven. Just spend some time listening to the reverbs on various instruments, tracks. If you can tell the difference, and you especially like the sound of one, then by all means go for it.


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## bill5 (Nov 22, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> WHICH REVERB WILL MAKE ME A BETTER COMPOSER??


That's like saying

WHICH MOTOR OIL WILL MAKE ME A BETTER DRIVER??

The answer IMO is none.

I would also check out some of the fine freebies out there by Voxengo, TAL, Melda etc


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## darcvision (Nov 22, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> Mostly the same stuff as well as piano and guitar. In reality it sounds great on anything. Really depends on what you're using it for. For example I've used it to make my own pads from orchestral and organic sounds. I've also used Adaptiverb and Raum for the same thing and they all do a great job, they just sound different form one another.
> 
> The factory default's fine. They chose those as the default settings for a reason... Almost certainly to highlight what makes it different from a more traditional reverb. You should to play with the settings even if just for fun though, and should explore the parameter morphing feature... It's pretty cool and unique.


Thanks for your answers. Sometimes i tweak gravity(not sure what its doing), predelay to make the sounds longer, or low/high for EQ-ing but i never use the modulation feature. maybe it would be useful for sound designing rather than for organic sounds. BTW, Raum is pretty good reverb for sound design and they have many unique presets.


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## ism (Nov 22, 2020)

bill5 said:


> That's like saying
> 
> WHICH MOTOR OIL WILL MAKE ME A BETTER DRIVER??
> 
> ...


To learn to compose symphonies, even in the 19th century, you need to understand how sound resonates in halls . Music is written differently for small chambers and large cathedrals.


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## Yogevs (Nov 23, 2020)

bill5 said:


> That's like saying
> 
> WHICH MOTOR OIL WILL MAKE ME A BETTER DRIVER??
> 
> ...



it was a joke question


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## bill5 (Nov 23, 2020)

ah my bad then, you sounded serious


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## Yogevs (Nov 23, 2020)

bill5 said:


> ah my bad then, you sounded serious



My bad - I thought the caps look will make it clear


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## musicman3000 (Nov 23, 2020)

I would look at Arturias 3 Verb bundle: https://www.arturia.com/products/software-effects/reverbs-bundle/overview. You get a modelled Plate, a modelled Spring and an 'algorithmic' reverb with pre/post filters, step sequencing and an ENV follower. All 3 are very useable. Their FX Bundle is on sale right now for 200€ or 100€ if you have some of their products and can crossgrade and contains 15 fx.

Alternatively I think Pro-R is still a great option: https://www.fabfilter.com/products/pro-r-reverb-plug-in

Edit: I think a reverb like Valhalla Room is probably sufficient for most mixing scenarios but if youre looking for soudn design, I would rather get something with modulation options baked in.


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## stfciu (Dec 2, 2020)

JonS said:


> 7th Heaven standard is good. Also, Exponential Audio R4, R2, Phoenixverb and Nimbus are all excellent!!


I got R4 during the sale. Do you think getting 7th heaven is necessary now? Will I get significantly more with it? 

I want to use it for orchestral stuff (for typical recordings I have bunch of other stuff including sonible reverb - a revelation during BF).

I heard 7th heaven is really good choice for orchestral compositions but I saw somewhere that R4 is fine as well.


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## mussnig (Dec 2, 2020)

stfciu said:


> I got R4 during the sale. Do you think getting 7th heaven is necessary now? Will I get significantly more with it?
> 
> I want to use it for orchestral stuff (for typical recordings I have bunch of other stuff including sonible reverb - a revelation during BF).
> 
> I heard 7th heaven is really good choice for orchestral compositions but I saw somewhere that R4 is fine as well.



I think 7th Heaven is more like a different flavor. It's not really "neutral" and has it's own kind of sound. If you have Valhalla together with R4, you probably have enough for a most things. But if you really like the sound/flavor of 7th Heaven, then go for it (I got R4 and 7H in the last days, btw., but I don't have any of the Valhallas - yet).

In general, I would recommend to really learn the reverbs that you have before buying new ones. In particular, R4 has a lot of different settings and controls (and I think in the few days that I had it, I have barely scratched the surface of what is possible).


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## stfciu (Dec 2, 2020)

mussnig said:


> I think 7th Heaven is more like a different flavor. It's not really "neutral" and has it's own kind of sound. If you have Valhalla together with R4, you probably have enough for a most things. But if you really like the sound/flavor of 7th Heaven, then go for it (I got R4 and 7H in the last days, btw., but I don't have any of the Valhallas - yet).
> 
> In general, I would recommend to really learn the reverbs that you have before buying new ones. In particular, R4 has a lot of different settings and controls (and I think in the few days that I had it, I have barely scratched the surface of what is possible).


Thanks for your opinion. I don't have Valhalla...yet but I do have Bx_rooms, Komplete reverbs including outstanding Raum (my favourite lately), Little Plate, Waves IR-L and H-reverb, Arturia Spring and now this R4 and Sonible cause I thought I don't have a quality reverb for orchestral purposes. I must admit though I did not have time to check R4 and Sonible so I think it will be wiser to find out what actually they can give me in this area before jumping on something else.


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## awaey (Dec 2, 2020)

stfciu said:


> I got R4 during the sale. Do you think getting 7th heaven is necessary now? Will I get significantly more with it?
> 
> I want to use it for orchestral stuff (for typical recordings I have bunch of other stuff including sonible reverb - a revelation during BF).
> 
> I heard 7th heaven is really good choice for orchestral compositions but I saw somewhere that R4 is fine as well.


,I Bought R4 3 day ago have a lot good preset to use for orchestra ,,amazing reverb...


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## thesteelydane (Dec 2, 2020)

All my friends are raving about Cinematic Rooms, but I'm on a budget and only bought Valhalla Vintage to go along with my Valhalla Room - man, I should have done that a long time ago, crank it up to max and send any old electric piano though it; instant Blade Runner Vangelis goodness. So easy to get that slightly unstable tail that

But yeah, if I wasn't on a financial diet, I would get Liquidsonic's Cinematic Rooms while it's still on sale.


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## samtrino (Dec 2, 2020)

Are some of your friends using non-pro Cinematic Rooms and raving about it, or only Pro version?


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## Yogevs (Dec 2, 2020)

thesteelydane said:


> All my friends are raving about Cinematic Rooms, but I'm on a budget and only bought Valhalla Vintage to go along with my Valhalla Room - man, I should have done that a long time ago, crank it up to max and send any old electric piano though it; instant Blade Runner Vangelis goodness. So easy to get that slightly unstable tail that
> 
> But yeah, if I wasn't on a financial diet, I would get Liquidsonic's Cinematic Rooms while it's still on sale.



How is VV compared to VR?


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## doctoremmet (Dec 2, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> How is VV compared to VR?


VV has more “character” (like eighties’ Lexicon machines for instance) than VR, which is more transparent.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 2, 2020)

VV is more in the league of Relab LX480 and the EA R2/4 reverbs.


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## JonS (Dec 2, 2020)

stfciu said:


> I got R4 during the sale. Do you think getting 7th heaven is necessary now? Will I get significantly more with it?
> 
> I want to use it for orchestral stuff (for typical recordings I have bunch of other stuff including sonible reverb - a revelation during BF).
> 
> I heard 7th heaven is really good choice for orchestral compositions but I saw somewhere that R4 is fine as well.


Is 7th Heaven necessary? No. But 7th Heaven standard is on sale and I would definitely get that if you can afford it since it is velvety goodness and you don’t need the pro version to get that great 7th Heaven sound. R4 can get the job done, but 7th Heaven is more like a Bricasti convolution and not the algorithmic R4, so it’s a different sounding reverb. I recommend you own both but it’s not like one needs more than one good verb like R4 is money is tight. R4 compliments 7th Heaven, one does not replace the other.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 2, 2020)

While I don't have either, I believe Relab VSR S24 is more like CR, albeit without surround (yet?).

VVV is more akin to R4 than CR, but even more noticeable. I never use VVV as I ended up not liking the sound as much as, say R4. Or Sonsig. Or Nimbus. Or even Reverberate3 with Lexicon IRs, etc.


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## Yogevs (Dec 2, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> VV has more “character” (like eighties’ Lexicon machines for instance) than VR, which is more transparent.



By that - do you mean it is more noticeable? How?


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## merty (Dec 2, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> By that - do you mean it is more noticeable? How?



It has some freq. bumps that does sound retro. Those bumps while giving character however to some feels muddy or middy and needs post eq'ing. You'll probably like it with mainstream music more than cinematic.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 2, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> By that - do you mean it is more noticeable? How?


Now you are asking me to use words / language to describe sound. Which is always difficult if not impossible to do. Anyway, character I’d argue means a slightly more noticeable tail, that contains some whirl or other, maybe slightly chorused, much in the same way a Lexicon hardware unit has. It all boils down to listening, and even then it may all be utter BS.

Watch this, and then you’ll know that as long as these pros can’t hear much differences when blindfolded, a hobbyist like myself probably never really will....


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## Andrajas (Dec 2, 2020)

Just demoing Cinematic Room now. Wow sounds awesome. Lovely tails and placement, and no muddy shit going on. Think I might have to get it. Didn't spend anything this Black Friday


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 2, 2020)

Andrajas said:


> Just demoing Cinematic Room now. Wow sounds awesome. Lovely tails and placement, and no muddy shit going on. Think I might have to get it. Didn't spend anything this Black Friday



If you don't need surround, then Relab VSR S24 is worth comparing vs. CR. Then just pick one.


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## thesteelydane (Dec 2, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> How is VV compared to VR?


What @doctoremmet said. I would also add that Valhalla Room strives more for a realistic re-creation of real rooms, whereas Valhalla Vintage Verb strives more for a realistic re-creation of vintage digital reverbs in and of themselves. See the difference?


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## ratherbirds (Dec 2, 2020)

thesteelydane said:


> What @doctoremmet said. I would also add that Valhalla Room strives more for a realistic re-creation of real rooms, whereas Valhalla Vintage Verb strives more for a realistic re-creation of vintage digital reverbs in and of themselves. See the difference?


On the Valhalla DSP site it says that VR can also be used to recreate an Unnatural or Lexicon 224 style. See : https://valhalladsp.com/2011/05/27/valhallaroom-tips-and-tricks-unnatural-hall-reverbs/


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## Gary Williamson (Dec 3, 2020)

Hans Zimmer says Cinematic Rooms "makes life better" so that's what I'm going with.


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## Distre55or (Dec 4, 2020)

I'm still confused about how folks use early reflections and then longer tails. 
Is there a good thread somewhere I can delve in or hold we start another one? Seems like with the arrival of all these new products it might be a good time to hear opinions.


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## col (Dec 5, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> 4. One of Logic's stock reverbs (which one?)


Logics included Au Matrix reverb can do really nice spatial positioning type thing.
That and Logic Space designer with yer Valhalla room will get you a long way before you need to spend more money on reverbs - unless you really know your shit or have plenty of spare cash.

My 2 bobs . ; )


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## jbuhler (Dec 5, 2020)

The thing I appreciate about 7H standard is that it is a very simple reverb that sounds good. It has slightly more tweakability than a one knob wonder but only a bit. And it does allow you to play with early and late reflections, predelay, reverb time, rolling off highs and lows, and so forth. So you can get a feel for these basic operations that prepares you to move to reverbs with more options. Valhalla Room, which I also like, has quite a lot more options and so is more complicated to work if you don’t stick to the presets.


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## Fabrice Music (Dec 8, 2021)

One year later... R4 (the reverb which won the blind test video) is on sale for $9.99 on iZotope.com.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 8, 2021)

Fabrice Music said:


> One year later... R4 (the reverb which won the blind test video) is on sale for $9.99 on iZotope.com.


Great reverb!

However, everyone buying should be aware it's no longer supported and won't be updated, so as tech moves on, it won't. Or, like in my specific case, if it was crashing your DAW and causing horrible noises, too bad. I think a big part of it is Studio One, mind you, not the reverb plugin - the two didn't play well on my system, unfortunately.


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## Fabrice Music (Dec 8, 2021)

Where did you get that info from ? I googled a bit but found nothing...


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## Pyro861 (Dec 8, 2021)

Don't quote me on that one but I think Neoverb uses R4/Nimbus algorithms and will be the product they'll focus on.


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## Aldunate (Dec 8, 2021)

https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us/articles/4407777831699-iZotope-Compatibility-with-Apple-silicon


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## José Herring (Dec 8, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Great reverb!
> 
> However, everyone buying should be aware it's no longer supported and won't be updated, so as tech moves on, it won't. Or, like in my specific case, if it was crashing your DAW and causing horrible noises, too bad. I think a big part of it is Studio One, mind you, not the reverb plugin - the two didn't play well on my system, unfortunately.


Isn't that the case with everything though? All this stuff has a limited shelf life. I keep hoping someday they'll just put an expiration date on software--"best used by (Insert date)". I seriously have had plugins go bad on me before I've even had a chance to use them properly.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 8, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Isn't that the case with everything though? All this stuff has a limited shelf life. I keep hoping someday they'll just put an expiration date on software--"best used by (Insert date)". I seriously have had plugins go bad on me before I've even had a chance to use them properly.


For sure! It's just that, like you said, some have already been put on the shelf but are still being sold, whereas others are still... sitting on the desk? Hmm. I took that metaphor too far, I think. Ha.


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## Fabrice Music (Dec 8, 2021)

Very wise video ! I guess that this topic was about late reflection reverbs.
But I agree, I also use before that on busses, a convolution reverb for placement of instruments in depth (usually 3 or 4 depths), then only add on the master buss an algo reverb like R4 for the tail (with a predelay so that it's not eating the early reflections done by the convolution)

Very hands-on video on how to deal with depth


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## John Longley (Dec 17, 2021)

Spaces II,or another good Convolution verb, would make a great match.


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