# Yet Another Studio Monitor Thread; Focal Alpha 50s?



## Quasar (Nov 6, 2017)

I have a really old pair (bought used, very cheap) of Tapco Mackie S5s, and while they sound "OK", I am thinking to upgrade.

After reading a bunch of reviews, GS arguments etc., I am concluding that while the JBL LRS305 (small room, don't need 8", and have decided to go fully nearfield-ish, smallish and quiet - I can use headphones to help reference bass) are no doubt great sounding monitors in their price range, the build quality may not be the greatest, and suspect that they are so popular in part because of the great sound/low cost combo, but at the expense of compromises, including reference accuracy and possibly longevity.

The 305s weigh almost 7 lbs less than my old S5s, which are built like tanks and have been 100% reliable for probably over 10 years (since long before I acquired them), and I don't trust the LSR's relatively lightweight, cheap box. That sort of thing.

So I've decided that if it's worth upgrading at all, it's worth spending a bit more money, even though I can't afford high-end, and the Focal Alpha 50s are sort of jumping out at me as a "sweet spot" way to go, $600 for an entry level but "quality" pair. The inverted dome tweeter design supposedly allows for more flexibility of listening position (I wouldn't know), and the front porting, according to some, seems to mean less LF buildup if placed near a wall.

I don't live in a place where I can try these before buying, but I note the reviews are almost all glowing, and I see that they are pretty rare to find used, which tells me that those who have them are not selling or returning them.

Anyone here, especially anyone doing orchestral/hybrid music, using these? Thoughts or opinions?

Have also been considering the Yamaha HS7s for about the same price, but get a sense that the Focals would be a step up. I could be wrong.


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## synthpunk (Nov 6, 2017)

Monitors is a very personnel choice Q. Try and go hear as many as possible or purchase from a dealer with a return policyand choose the ones that appeal to your tastes.

Saying that, The JBL LSR's are hard to beat for the money even if they only last your a few years. Next step up I would highly recommend adding Neumann KH & Dynaudio BM series to your list.


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## TheNorseman (Nov 6, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Monitors is a very personnel choice Q. Try and go hear as many as possible or purchase from a dealer with a return policyand choose the ones that appeal to your tastes.



This. You also want to find something you like and get USED to it. When I get used to something it becomes impossible for me to mix with anything else.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Nov 6, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Monitors is a very personnel choice Q. Try and go hear as many as possible or purchase from a dealer with a return policyand choose the ones that appeal to your tastes.
> 
> Saying that, The JBL LSR's for the money are hard to beat for the money even if they only last your a few years. Next step up I would highly recommend adding Neumann KH & Dynaudio BM series to your list.



+1 

It's quite a price jump to get much better than the LSR305. I'm a big fan of Dynaudio BM's. I've heard that the 7" ones are the best in both BM and LYD ranges. I like the little Neumanns but I was easily clipping them.


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## Quasar (Nov 6, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Monitors is a very personnel choice Q. Try and go hear as many as possible or purchase from a dealer with a return policyand choose the ones that appeal to your tastes.
> 
> Saying that, The JBL LSR's are hard to beat for the money even if they only last your a few years. Next step up I would highly recommend adding Neumann KH & Dynaudio BM series to your list.



Thanks, I've looked at both of these brands, and that's yet _another_ big jump in cost.

There appears to be a fairly wide opinion on the gear sites that the $500-600 range of nearfields, HS7, Alpha 50 etc. aren't enough better than the LSR305 to justify the price hike, and that the next quantum leap is over $1000 (Adam, Genelec, Neuman et al)... This seems difficult to believe and I remain skeptical, but if it's true it's true...

And yeah, there are subjective elements to an extent, insofar as human ears, room size, acoustics & treatment vary, and different styles of music and approaches to art and craft may change priorities in terms of which features are critical and which can be compromised. Even "accuracy" is a moving target, because an absolute frame of reference for what something "really" sounds like doesn't exist. Until reading about monitors I had assumed the famous NS10s were "flat" and honest, and now I learn that they're anything but. Rather, their claim to fame is that a good mix on these will usually sound good almost everywhere else, and the reasons for this, to the extent true, are complex. I gather they exaggerate the unattractive results of the most common mixing mistakes or something.

But clarity, definition and the ability to hear detail should be pretty objective. Some speakers do this much better than others.

This search may not be doable remotely, and I may have to buy/return, buy/return, even though I'm not a fan of behaving that way. Maybe I should just stick to what I have. They don't sound bad at all for just playing into and listening back. But for analytical purposes, I can't hear the individual components of multi-track, multi-timbrel projects very well, too much "wall of sound" in which everything sort of mushes together, which is why I want to upgrade.


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## Quasar (Nov 10, 2017)

FWIW, I went ahead, borrowed money from a friend, and got the Focal Alpha 50s. ONE of them came in the mail today (not sure why they shipped separately from the same order and the other is supposed to arrive Monday, but whatever), which gave me a chance to A/B the sonic differences between these and my old Tapcos in mono, simply switching from dupe tracks, panned 100% L vs. R.

The difference in clarity and detail is nothing less than extraordinary. You know how when you buy a new library or a piece of hardware and after you have it, right away you "know" one way or the other? You're either: "Wow! This is great!" or conversely: "Hmmm... I spent all this money and..." and a creeping buyers remorse might set in. This has definitely been a "wow!" purchase for me. The Focals exceed expectations. Great monitors.


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## tack (Nov 10, 2017)

I had the same reaction when I bought the Focal CMS65 a few years back, replacing a (comparatively) cheap pair of Tannoys. I've been contemplating the Shape65 in the hope to recreate that exact moment of awe you described, but I suspect I'd be well into the territory of diminishing returns. 

Enjoy the Alphas!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 15, 2017)

I narrowed my recent search down to the Alpha 50's or the Yamaha HS8's. After putting both through the ringer, I ended up with the Yammy's. I just found them more "flat" for my room, and they revealed some artifacts that the Alpha's didn't. They are huge, but I'm used to them now, and my mixes are already a massive improvement. I also added an Apogee Element to the upgrade, and can attest it's an excellent interface.

Again, monitors are such a personal choice. You won't be sorry with the Alpha's.


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## Quasar (Nov 15, 2017)

tack said:


> I had the same reaction when I bought the Focal CMS65 a few years back, replacing a (comparatively) cheap pair of Tannoys. I've been contemplating the Shape65 in the hope to recreate that exact moment of awe you described, but I suspect I'd be well into the territory of diminishing returns.
> 
> Enjoy the Alphas!


Thanks! I have little experience in the +$1000 range to compare them to. But the clarity is stunning compared to my old cheap pair, the stereo imaging is great when sitting (roughly) in the recommended equilateral triangle position. One of the reasons I chose these is that I read a recurring theme of very good bass response for 5" cones, and I can actually hear the LFs distinctly now, whereas before I had to use headphones.

I'm just a small home studio person, and though I considered the idea of going bigger, all I can say is that the Alpha 50s get too loud for me before they begin to distort, and definitely fill the room. If I ever moved into a large space, that would create a different situation, but as it is now, they have more than enough firepower for a full nearfield experience.

From reading reviews, some (not all) compared the Alphas as at or near the same level as the CMS series, though there seems to be universal agreement among those who would know that the Shapes are in a whole other league. If money were no object, I may have been drawn toward the Shape 65s. I read absolutely nothing bad about them whatsoever... If you do get them, I'd be interested in your thoughts regarding how significant of an upgrade they are and in what way.

And the "diminishing returns" notion occurred to me too when websearching. Bottom line: If I fail to make great music before I die it won't be because I had crap for studio monitors lol. They're either good enough for my intended use and purpose or they're not, and the Alpha 50s are most definitely good enough, however they might compare sonically to more uber-pricey options.


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## Quasar (Nov 15, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I narrowed my recent search down to the Alpha 50's or the Yamaha HS8's. After putting both through the ringer, I ended up with the Yammy's. I just found them more "flat" for my room, and they revealed some artifacts that the Alpha's didn't. They are huge, but I'm used to them now, and my mixes are already a massive improvement. I also added an Apogee Element to the upgrade, and can attest it's an excellent interface.
> 
> Again, monitors are such a personal choice. You won't be sorry with the Alpha's.



I don't get around much, but did recently visit a studio where they had HS8s, and I thought they sounded terrific. Much larger space though, with sophisticated, structural (angled walls etc.) room treatment... and the size did intimate me for my bedroom studio a little bit. Though I wouldn't know first hand, HS8 + Apogee sounds like a great choice.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 15, 2017)

The HS8's and Alpha's are, IMHO, the best in their category (and I listened to a lot of different models). I even preferred them over some models that were in the $3-5K range. However, if I had the extra dough, I would have gone with the Genelec 8040B's, they are amazing.


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## markleake (Jan 5, 2018)

This thread caused me to go shopping and get some better monitors. 

My listening experience may be useful to anyone reading so I'll give some details here. I listened to:
- Focal Alpha 50 and Alpha 65
- JBL LRS305 and LSR308
- Mackie MR624, MR624 and MR824 <-- ** I bought the MR824s **
- Some Pioneers which were just too bass heavy for a monitor, so I ignored them as they weren't on my list anyway.
- I ignored the KRKs, as I don't like their sound.

Unfortunately I couldn't listen to the Yamaha HS series, which was the other speakers I was interested in.

Both the 50 and 65 Focals sounded great, especially the 65. The bass sounded a bit too dominant for my taste (although this is controllable). The JBLs were great also - both brands sound different but were very easy to listen to. Both had a fairly revealing/flat-ish enough sound for my tastes. The Mackies sounded similar to the JBLs, but with a slight bit less emphasis on the bass and more emphasis on the top end, so were a little brighter overall compared to the JBLs.

I found the Focals had a very direct image... if you stood off angle about 30% the sound changed a lot (it seemed to loose the top end clarity). The JBLs and Mackies didn't seem to have that same tight focus - I think due to an intentional design decision with the tweeters. So even though I liked the sound of the Focals the best, especially the Alpha 65s, I thought they may not be the best for me, given I needed something that is flexible enough to listen to a bit off axis. Besides, the store didn't have any Alphas actually in stock. 

The JBLs to me sounded just a bit muddy / recessed in some of the mid range when comparing to the Mackies. It made them a bit easier to listen to than the Mackies. But it was surprising to me how good the Mackies sounded given their reputation (or sometimes lack of it). I thought the bass would be overdone like on some of the other brands. But it wasn't. The bass is very much there, but seemed more controlled than the JBLs. And it stays there when the volume is turned down, which is a big plus. What decided it for me in the end is that the Mackies were more revealing in the mids vs. the JBLs.

It was hard to decide between the 5 inch/6 inch or 8 inch drivers, as I am in a smallish room. But the room opens out on a much larger area and I decided to use my sub somewhere else in the house, so I got a pair of the MR824.

I just got the MR824 home today, and they are so much better than what I had before. I'm listening to tracks now and keep saying 'wow' out loud. I was using some good Dali bookshelf speakers, which aren't cheap... so I'm surprised how much better the Mackies are. The imaging is great, at least for this range of speaker, and they certainly have way more power than I need. They are showing me a lot of details in my own tracks that I had missed before when writing/mixing.

Speakers are very much a personal taste/need thing, as we all have different ears. But hopefully the above was useful.


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## Piano Pete (Jan 5, 2018)

I use a pair of focal alpha 80s as my main work horses. I have not had any complaints about them. If you are in a smaller room, you probably dont need the 80s. In that case, the 65s would be fine.


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## AllanH (Jan 6, 2018)

markleake said:


> This thread caused me to go shopping and get some better monitors.


Thank you for taking the time to summarize your experience. I was looking at the Focal Alpha 65, but could not find them locally to test. At some point, it'll be worth a drive to LA, I think.


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## markleake (Jan 6, 2018)

AllanH said:


> Thank you for taking the time to summarize your experience. I was looking at the Focal Alpha 65, but could not find them locally to test. At some point, it'll be worth a drive to LA, I think.


No worries. I think if the stores near me had the Alpha 65s in stock, I would have got them instead of the Mackies. They cost more, but the price difference is worth it I think.


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## Pier (Jan 8, 2018)

I'm happy with the JBL 305 for the price paid. The build quality is perfectly fine for a studio.

If I had to upgrade in quality (and price) I'd be looking into Focal, Adam, or Genelec which are in another league IMO.


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