# Making portfolio - should I have mixed/mastered tracks?



## 100khz (Aug 14, 2014)

Aspiring to do professional composing, i am making my portfolio these days. But The outputs i have are not professionally mixed and mastered. They do not sound that exciting and separated without mix etc. So now if i present my compositions to say another composer or producer, will they understand that this music will sound better with proper mixing mastering and right now they can understand my skills level without a mixed output present t them?

Or else its always advised to get the portfolio tracks properly mixed mastered from a pro before its presented to someone say another composer or producer?

What kind of approach is right here?


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## markwind (Aug 15, 2014)

I think the answer is determined to how good you want the 'product' to be before making it public. 

Do you want the best possible representation of your abilities out there? Or do you want something less?

In my mind, it shouldn't be a question in the first place. And just to clarify; to me it's not a matter of right or wrong. It's a matter to what extend you'll want to go to show your abilities. There should be a sense of: I won't put my name on it or put it public unless it's achieved this measure of quality - whatever you think that is.


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## 100khz (Aug 15, 2014)

markwind @ Fri Aug 15 said:


> There should be a sense of: I won't put my name on it or put it public unless it's achieved this measure of quality - whatever you think that is.



Thanks Mark. Indeed i would want the best possible output to go out to the public. Just wondering if i should myself attempt to do the mixing or get it done from a professional. Since art of mixing requires a separate set of skills. But as you said, one should strive to send the best possible output out to people. Thanks.


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## markwind (Aug 15, 2014)

I hear you, i've attempted my own mixes because of budget issues and I had a doable setup to attempt it. And though it has gotten some good response, I've learned so much in the last year that I would consider taking them down and redoing them . But I guess that's a neverending story huh


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## G.E. (Aug 15, 2014)

I've always believed that the mix is just as important as the composition. A bad mix irritates people and it's like trying to pay attention to something(in this case your composition) while an annoying insect keeps buzzing around their face. Some people who have some experience in creating music, like other composers for example, may be able to look past a bad mix and see the real potential of your music. But the average listener can't do that. 

For the tracks that really matter, it's a must that they are presented to the world in the best light possible. Even something which has nothing to do with your composition skills, like your website, can make people subconsciously think that you are not a professional.


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## Dean (Aug 15, 2014)

100khz @ Thu Aug 14 said:


> Aspiring to do professional composing, i am making my portfolio these days. But The outputs i have are not professionally mixed and mastered. They do not sound that exciting and separated without mix etc. So now if i present my compositions to say another composer or producer, will they understand that this music will sound better with proper mixing mastering and right now they can understand my skills level without a mixed output present t them?
> 
> Or else its always advised to get the portfolio tracks properly mixed mastered from a pro before its presented to someone say another composer or producer?
> 
> What kind of approach is right here?



Its important to get your track sounding as good as it should be,..dont worry too much about mastering.But ultimately its the music that really counts in the end(unless you have a truely terrible mix.)

If you like you could mix a track then post it here for some people to give you advice or if you like you're welcome to send me a link by pm and I'll have a listen?


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## 100khz (Aug 15, 2014)

G.E. @ Fri Aug 15 said:


> I've always believed that the mix is just as important as the composition. A bad mix irritates people and it's like trying to pay attention to something(in this case your composition) while an annoying insect keeps buzzing around their face. Some people who have some experience in creating music, like other composers for example, may be able to look past a bad mix and see the real potential of your music. But the average listener can't do that.
> 
> For the tracks that really matter, it's a must that they are presented to the world in the best light possible. Even something which has nothing to do with your composition skills, like your website, can make people subconsciously think that you are not a professional.



indeed, mix is also a part of the composition. Sometime mix may define the direction of the composition, especially elements like reverbs, delays if used at mix level. 

I am fine using reverbs and delays, but the frequency hangover which get created while using reverbs, delays are bad for the composition so i forbid using these too.. one way is to dive in to the world of mixing or have a great friend who is a mix pro and can understand your music..

have a listen to one of my compositions which i tried to mix. i still find it less defined and muddy..

https://soundcloud.com/100khz/run


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## RiffWraith (Aug 15, 2014)

Dean @ Fri Aug 15 said:


> Its important to get your track sounding as good as it should be,..dont worry too much about mastering.But ultimately its the music that really counts in the end(unless you have a truely terrible mix.)



Must agree with Dean here, tho he misspelled _truly_.  

A portfolio is like a girlfriend/wife, whereas the music composition is the personality, and the mix is how she looks. The personality is the most important thing, but what she looks like comes in a really, really close second. You don't want to date the hottest thing this side of the Mississippi if she has both oars on the same side of the boat, and at the same time you don't want to date the coolest, sweetest, hippest chick there is if her picture is used as a scarecrow by farmers. 

So yeah, you want the music to be top-notch, but the mix should be as well. If you are unsure about your mixing skills and have limited experience there, I would definitely see about hiring someone.

Cheers.


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## bryla (Aug 15, 2014)

Analogy of the year!


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## Dean (Aug 16, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Fri Aug 15 said:


> Must agree with Dean here, tho he misspelled _truly_.



thank you kind sir,wont happen again RuffWraith.


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## wst3 (Aug 16, 2014)

50 years ago you could pitch a composition with nothing more than a piano. Assuming you were pitching just the composition. 

Today expectations are higher, and I think some listeners are lazier. Plus, many times we are pitching the composition, the arrangement, and the mix. So the pitch has to be the entire package. 

At least that has been my experience.


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## 100khz (Aug 17, 2014)

wst3 @ Sun Aug 17 said:


> 50 years ago you could pitch a composition with nothing more than a piano. Assuming you were pitching just the composition.
> 
> Today expectations are higher, and I think some listeners are lazier. Plus, many times we are pitching the composition, the arrangement, and the mix. So the pitch has to be the entire package.
> 
> At least that has been my experience.



ok so then i will have to work on the final output now. But this way, not having a perfect room for mix, since its a self made home studio i work in, not the best monitors, less experience in mix, obviously i won't be able to do a great job as a pro mixing artist with his better gears and experience will do.. I think i should try and get one of my compositions mixed with a pro artist and see if that works better for me. Or else start working to develop an ear for mix, learning its techniques like eq, compressor usage, sound stage, reverb on master track etc.. 

I also find that mixing own composition makes us loose its perspective. Like listening to same sound over and over, i start disliking the same composition i made. So i seldom want to not indulge in any kind of mixing job with my own compositions.

I think the answer lies in trying a pro mixing artist and then see if that works for me. Now the next task would be to find one whom i can afford or someone who can generously do a 15 sec mix on one of my compositions so that i can compare.


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## Dean (Aug 17, 2014)

100khz @ Sun Aug 17 said:


> ok so then i will have to work on the final output now. But this way, not having a perfect room for mix, since its a self made home studio i work in, not the best monitors, less experience in mix, obviously i won't be able to do a great job as a pro mixing artist with his better gears and experience will do.. I think i should try and get one of my compositions mixed with a pro artist and see if that works better for me. Or else start working to develop an ear for mix, learning its techniques like eq, compressor usage, sound stage, reverb on master track etc..
> 
> I also find that mixing own composition makes us loose its perspective. Like listening to same sound over and over, i start disliking the same composition i made. So i seldom want to not indulge in any kind of mixing job with my own compositions.
> 
> I think the answer lies in trying a pro mixing artist and then see if that works for me. Now the next task would be to find one whom i can afford or someone who can generously do a 15 sec mix on one of my compositions so that i can compare.



A couple of things; 


I work from a very humble,normal home studio(not perfect at all),unless you're working in big tin box its not really a major issue,.its ALL about your instincts/skills and ears! Of course you could get the perfect mix/master everytime but in most cases its not practical (timewise or budgetwise) 

I think youve got it all twisted around about remixing you're own work,..theres so much to be learned from mixing yourself that will improve your composition and orchestration skills,..you will discover more about your process this way,..eventually instead of endless tweaking mixes you will discover what instruments work best in certain ranges and how to achieve a sound via pre-eqing or instrument/range choices while or before composing then that will become your template. When you feel you've got 'it' down and youre totally focused on composing and not long endless frustrating mixes then you can start getting music mixed by the pros when needed. 
Do you make detailed stems of your cues and final mix from there? if not,..give it a go.

A pro engineer will always get a better sound for you but if you keep at it you can do pretty great job yourself and learn so much in the process. 

note: Im mainly talking about projects where you are a one man band,so to speak, (not involving a team or any assistants)usually with a tight budget and relentless deadline. 
D


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## 100khz (Aug 17, 2014)

Dean @ Sun Aug 17 said:


> A couple of things;
> 
> 
> I work from a very humble,normal home studio(not perfect at all),unless you're working in big tin box its not really a major issue,.its ALL about your instincts/skills and ears! Of course you could get the perfect mix/master everytime but in most cases its not practical (timewise or budgetwise)
> ...



I kind of resonate with your opinion, its just so that sitting in my studio room, without talking much in person with other composers or artists (being a one man band), I need to verify by asking others if I am on the right path.

The template thing you mentioned is something i have also heard from many other senior composers. I have made templates but not tweaked anything with the original sound of the library to sound in a specific way. I also face the issue of foreground and background music elements, which one should speak up and which ones should not. A stupid thing to make everything sound great & have its place on the sound stage perhaps takes me in wrong direction always. Its an art, have to dive deep into now.

Regarding, stems of the cues and do mix on them, yes, have done it, it really helps. Light session (on cpu, ram etc) and easy to do extensive mixing. If this is wat u talking about.?


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## Tanuj Tiku (Aug 18, 2014)

This can be a tricky topic sometimes. I am completely with Dean here. 

If you are making music with computers, mixing ability is sort of intertwined with composing. After all, the computer is an instrument in itself. 

The faders and various CC parameters are a part of your instrument. Its the whole package. 

While working with a really good engineer is great, mastering is the least of your worries as such when composing or even putting together a showreel. If your mix is not that great, there is not a whole lot that a mastering engineer can do. 

Musicality and programming is far more important. A mastery of these two can take years but are the absolute foundation of music and the resulting sound itself. 

The mix of a piece of music which is done almost entirely in the computer should really be a part of your own skill. 

Writing music with virtual instruments is not the same as writing directly on paper for a live orchestra to play. If you want to make your mock-up sound good then you will find yourself ditching the rules of orchestration as there is currently no standard or a particular way to achieve that sound. 

I break many rules very often to make something sound good. I think that is the point in the end. That is what orchestration is for live instruments as well. The end goal is to make everything sound balanced, wonderful and musical. 

Apply the same thing to your mock-ups. Listen to your favourite recordings. Hear how different instruments behave in the real world and then find a way to get close to that with virtual instruments and the mix. 

I mix as I compose mostly but only after I have the major chunk of my idea down on the piano or the sequencer with a basic direction. 

I find starting without any thoughts about what you want to write about a waste of time (I have done this in my early years). I also don't like going through hundreds of presets if I don't know what and where I am looking. 

Its easier and faster to make a sound most of the time. Presets do come in handy when you have already put the major chunk of your ideas down and they can add the flourish, colour, transitions etc etc.

Once you have understood this basic fundamental you can then try to understand different libraries, hear their natural sound, try and blend with others or just use them as they are. Setting the dynamic range is important. Quite often people start very loud and quickly run out of headroom. 

The study of orchestration is also important. I mean, it would be stupid of me to say that I know what I am really doing but I can say that whatever I have read, understood and learnt from audio and books is of tremendous help. It gives you a starting point as to what sounds good, what the instruments can do, what are the combinations that can be used and later you can use your own musicality. 

Very often I hear things that an instrument possibly cannot do and there itself it sounds unnatural unless you are going for that kind of thing. Once again, I used to do this myself.

In the end I think if your mock-ups are sounding below average or something to that effect then there is more you can do yourself in the writing and the programming and the production that an engineer can. 


Good luck!


Tanuj.


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## 100khz (Aug 19, 2014)

vibrato @ Mon Aug 18 said:


> This can be a tricky topic sometimes. I am completely with Dean here.....
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Tanuj.



Thanks Tanuj for this elaborate explanation. I have read it a couple of times and internalized it. There are quite a few things you have mentioned which will need me to work on individually. 

Study of orchestration, instruments natural playable ranges and interactivity with other instruments and combinations, a must to study as you mentioned.

And a mix of a piece done on a computer, should be part of composers own skills, indeed gives me a clear direction to start experimenting with my mixes now, and to make this a part of compositional skills it self.

And lastly, starting with a direction and thought while beginning composing, are indeed some of the things I will make more internal to my workflow now.

This entire thread has given me more encouragement and clarity towards a finer workflow to creating more balanced and musically sound compositions.

Thanks again for taking out time to writing this insightful explanation Tanuj. I am big fan.


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## waveheavy (Sep 24, 2014)

This thread might be a little old, but I think it's worth developing towards a mixer/mastering view more, just so 100khz has a bit more understanding of differences between the production phases.

Even when composing and getting balances between orchestral instruments and sections, it's going to still need some tweaking that is strictly sound engineering oriented, not just composition/arrangement oriented. When using different brands of sample libraries this can be even more true.

I've been studying mixing for a number of years, so I know there's a lot of science of sound type factors involved, even when starting with a great balanced orchestral arrangement/composition. Learning how to balance instruments in the front/middle ground/background is also a mixing engineer strategy. Using EQ carving to unmask similar register instruments that are near each other while maintaining their original character is a mix strategy. Knowing how to properly use EQ, compression, reverb, correcting phase issues, etc., are all part of sound engineering strategy. It's not only common to mixing In-The-Box on a computer either.

There's even little known secrets mix engineers have used in EQ'ing violin sections, brass sections, etc., that can be heard on a majority of symphonic recordings since the days of mono records (more so on Big Band, and Jazz recordings). Some of those productions have the violin sections with more 'air', some with the brass section more full in the low mid range, some with the percussion instruments having more or less 'punch'. So what references of those would you choose to know what an orchestra should... sound like?

Nothing beats hearing live performance, and getting that sound into the mind. Some sample libraries get closer to that than others.

One thing to do, a technique which all mastering engineers use, is do an A/B comparison between your mix and reference material. In order to do that properly, you have to get the loudness levels of your mix and the reference to match. Then you can compare the balances, dynamics, and EQ of your mix with the reference. It should also reveal how your mix of the instrument sections in the foreground/middleground/background stands up in comparison to the reference.

Same thing if you're wanting your mix to sound closer to something like Zimmer with all the loud drums, etc., do an A/B comparison of a Zimmer production after level matching the loudness. (recommend reducing the CD loudness to match your mix level. Mastering engineer Ian Shepherd has a plugin tool to do this, called Perception Plugin).

Dave


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