# Getting libraries in the same room as Albion



## G.E. (Jan 3, 2014)

So the first 4 measures are Albion's woodwinds hi and the second 4 measures are Berlin woodwinds flute with clarinet.Please tell me if they sound like they're in the same room.For BWW I added a 3900m3 room size,a 2.1s RT60 and 70% wetness.

https://soundcloud.com/bizzysgs/room-test

To me they sound in the same room, but then again I know I don't have a trained ear for this stuff.

Basically I'm trying to get all my other libraries to sound like AIR Lyndhurst.If you have any tips,please,don't hold back.


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## Justin Miller (Jan 3, 2014)

It's kind of difficult to tell with the passage since they are playing at the same time all the way through. Something sounds slightly too dry, maybe the bww


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## paulmatthew (Jan 3, 2014)

It's close but it sounds like the BWW need just a little more air to them to match Albion. Maybe increase the size of the room or add more reverb/ predelay to the BWW. Justin is right , they are still a little dry .


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## G.E. (Jan 3, 2014)

Alright,thanks for the input !


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## The Darris (Jan 3, 2014)

Try using only the room mic in BWW. Those VerbSession settings should work. Adding in slight ER would also help.


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## G.E. (Jan 3, 2014)

The Darris @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> Try using only the room mic in BWW. Those VerbSession settings should work. Adding in slight ER would also help.



Thanks ! I'll also try that ASAP.


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## re-peat (Jan 4, 2014)

paulmatthew @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> (...) they are still a little dry .


No, they're not. If anything, I’d say they’re already a little bit too wet. There's definitely too much tail in there. Also, the chosen reverb is a bit too cloudy, too washy. If you listen to the Albions, you hear the instruments and you hear the response of the room (or the hall, if you like) but you never really hear the tail as a distinct, isolated presence. With the reverbed BWW's on the other hand, there's the instruments and, behind them, these blurry, stretched-out clouds of tail, and even though there are plenty of those, you remain without a clue as to what sort of room all of this is supposed to be happening in, other than that it's a fairly big one.

I would: 
(1) Choose a different reverb. Difficult to tell what exactly it needs to be, but the one that’s in there at the moment is a bit too aquarelly or too fluffy to my ears. I’d choose one that has less diffusion and is also slightly shorter than the current one.
Another thing that needs some attention is the predelay. You don’t need calculators or formulas to come up with a mathematically exact number, but you do need to dial in a value which is more or less compatible with the behaviour of Lyndhurst.

(2) Try to define the space more with the ER's and less with the tail. Both are quite essential of course for the complete illusion, but ER’s (and the predelay) tell us more about the size of the room and the perceived position of the source, whereas tails are more suggestive of the character and reflectiveness of the room.
In other words, if you try to define a space with mostly tails, and neglect your ER's, you (1) will never have a good definition of the room and (2) you’ll need to apply way too much reverb before the dry source begins to appear as if happening in a space (as the OP’s example shows).

(3) add in just enough tail to suggest the required Lyndhurstian spaciousness, but certainly not too much so as to avoid ending up with those foggy, uninformative washes of tail which you have at the moment.

_


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## AC986 (Jan 4, 2014)

G.E. @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Basically I'm trying to get all my other libraries to sound like AIR Lyndhurst.If you have any tips,please,don't hold back.



If you want to get Air Lyndhurst as a constant, consistent space that your samples are playing 'in' then the only way you will do that is to use Spitfire libraries throughout your music pieces. 
Personally I don't really care too much about that because if something sounds good then that works too. But for the same room/space then it's all of the same library source afaics.


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## Stephen Rees (Jan 4, 2014)

adriancook @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> Personally I don't really care too much about that because if something sounds good then that works too.



I agree with you there Adrian.

I don't spend any time blending libraries that are similar enough that my ear doesn't really mind that they are in different spaces. For me, it is not necessary that two ambient spaces sound the same, it is just necessary that they don't contradict each other (unless you want that as a special feature of your mix).

I mix the BWW room mics with the Spitfire sound world and they do not contradict each other to my ear, so I don't add any reverb to BWW. I might (just might) add a bit of tail to the full mix as glue, but not always, or even very often.


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## The Darris (Jan 15, 2014)

Stephen Rees @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> I mix the BWW room mics with the Spitfire sound world and they do not contradict each other to my ear, so I don't add any reverb to BWW. I might (just might) add a bit of tail to the full mix as glue, but not always, or even very often.



I would love to hear some of your work illustrating this. BWW has a very dry/closer sound then Air Lyndhurst, to the point where the Woodwinds sound like they are sitting in front of the strings. You ultimately can't mix that very well with out early reflections and RTs. The settings that G.E. mentioned for VerbSession is a great starting point but ultimately he has other libraries to mix as well. 

I utilize Sable, Albion, CineBrass, BWW, and friends which out-of-the-box just don't sound right together. It requires the process of getting them all into the same room. One technique is to use the library with the longest tail and add that tail to all the other instruments, then using another convolution reverb to put everything in together. (Room within a Room so to speak). 

^That technique works best for me with VerbSessionV3. I love the results I am getting with it.

Ultimately, there are thousands of ways to mix different libraries into the same room but the key component is using your ears and finding the sound that you want. Each composer has their own specific sound they are going for, play around with all the features of your plugins. That really is the best way for you to define your own sound.


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## G.E. (Jan 15, 2014)

I agree that BWW sounds way too dry. 

For some time(Until I really master the art of mixing  ) I think I will base my entire template on Spitfire libraries because that seems to be the best way to make sure everything fits together.Plus I think Spitfire is the best in the industry so there's no reason why I shouldn't do it.I will still keep BWW in my template but ultimately I hope to get the upcoming BML woodwind libraries.


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## Stephen Rees (Jan 15, 2014)

The Darris @ Wed Jan 15 said:


> Stephen Rees @ Sat Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > I mix the BWW room mics with the Spitfire sound world and they do not contradict each other to my ear, so I don't add any reverb to BWW. I might (just might) add a bit of tail to the full mix as glue, but not always, or even very often.
> ...



I only recently acquired BWW so have no tracks in the public domain that feature it. I will certainly listen to the tracks I am working on with it afresh and consider what you said.


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## The Darris (Jan 15, 2014)

Stephen Rees @ Wed Jan 15 said:


> I only recently acquired BWW so have no tracks in the public domain that feature it. I will certainly listen to the tracks I am working on with it afresh and consider what you said.



No problem. Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that your way was wrong. Go with your ear, I am just curious how your mixes sound and could probably learn a thing or two from someone else who uses BWW. 

G.E,

I am really displeased with Orchestral Tools and their Berlin Line now. Clearly the woodwinds sound like they are in a completely different space than the strings. Their strings sound like they are in a nice large hall versus the dryish sound of Teldex. This makes me think they used a completely different microphone setup and room configuration than BWW. A little frustrating in the sample world when companies like CineSamples, Spitfire, VSL, etc who have used the same configuration (formula if you will) of recording their libraries to match together. Like you, I want the difference sections from one developer to match out-of-the-box together with little to no eq-ing or reverb in order to sound good. I just find myself not utilizing that much of BWW which saddens me given the price tag. 

Oh well, you live and learn. My future investments will be better as I know what I need versus what I want.


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## G.E. (Jan 15, 2014)

I still think BWW is good to have even if just for the runs builder since you can't find that kind of thing anywhere else.I can't say that I'm not happy with it.It's still easier to blend with other libraries because it's dry-ish.


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## The Darris (Jan 15, 2014)

Indeed, for me it is the legato performances and playable runs patches. I am using them in a piece right now and they sound so awesome with my reverb settings mixed with SF products.


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## Sebastian (Jan 16, 2014)

It might help you a bit 

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36094

With most of the patches I'm able to use CLOSE MIC from SPITFIRE library, and with really good position tool ( or decca tree emulation ) you'll get close sound to the original Decca Tree.

When you get there you can try to load other libraries to sound like at AIR Lyndhurst.
Most of my patches are focused on the AIR Lyndhurst recreation.

AIRXVverb Vol.1 library I'm working for 2 months now.... is focused at the Spitfire Albion 1 , BML and many more.


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## The Darris (Jan 17, 2014)

Sebastian, 

Great work on this expansion, the demos are sounding great. I unfortunately haven't had much luck with B2 when it comes to resources. Whenever I get the money to upgrade my system I will be sure to invest in your expansion you are working on. Keep up the great work man!


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## G.E. (Jan 18, 2014)

Sebastian @ Thu Jan 16 said:


> It might help you a bit
> 
> http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36094
> 
> ...



Thanks ! I'll check it out.


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