# Digital piano good to work with my DAW



## emilio_n (Jun 30, 2020)

Tired to try horrible keybeds and read a lot of bad comments about the quality build and fragile construction of most of the MID Keyboards and I am thinking to buy a Digital piano with better quality and key touch.

The options that I am checking are:

Kawai VCP-1
I know is not a Digital piano but a MIDI controller. Is the only one in the list.

Roland FP-90
Looks to have the best key action to play piano but light enough to play other instruments when using with the DAW.

Yamaha P-515
I love the touch but perhaps the action is a little bit hard.

Yahama P-125
The key action is absolutely different, plastic keys and cheaper build, but 4 times cheaper and maybe better to record other instruments into the DAW.

What are your thoughts? Any other contender that you think I must include before decided?
I don't care about the faders or other Dynamic controls. I assume that I will need to buy something external to control this if I want good Key action.

Thanks in advance.
Edit: I forgot to mention the tI want to use the keyboard both to play piano and to compose with the Daw. I am not professional pianist but studied a few years in the past.


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## synthesizerwriter (Jun 30, 2020)

Thanks for your thoughts. It reminded me to add more information/opinions about build quality and feel into this 'Master Keyboard' database that I maintain for the Pianobook.co.uk forum community.









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With all the emphasis on numbers, it is easy to forget that technical specifications are only part of what people need to know!


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## CGR (Jun 30, 2020)

If you can source a lightly used Yamaha CP4 stage I can highly recommend it. Triple sensor fully weighted action that not only plays extremely evenly & dynamically with it's vast range of built-in sounds, but is a perfect match for sampled/virtual pianos in a DAW. Had mine for about 4 years and it's had daily use in the studio & been played on a number of live gigs and hasn't missed a beat.


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## emilio_n (Jun 30, 2020)

CGR said:


> If you can source a lightly used Yamaha CP4 stage I can highly recommend it. Triple sensor fully weighted action that not only plays extremely evenly & dynamically with it's vast range of built-in sounds, but is a perfect match for sampled/virtual pianos in a DAW. Had mine for about 4 years and it's had daily use in the studio & been played on a number of live gigs and hasn't missed a beat.


Looks a very good choice! I am afraid, not easy to find here in Hong Kong. I think the action system is the same as the Yamaha P-515. Is the key action fast enough to play fast passages of another kind of instruments? The CP4 will be perfect, I will try to find it!


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## CGR (Jun 30, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Looks a very good choice! I am afraid, not easy to find here in Hong Kong. I think the action system is the same as the Yamaha P-515. Is the key action fast enough to play fast passages of another kind of instruments? The CP4 will be perfect, I will try to find it!


It's no longer a current model, but you may be able to find a demo unit (or 2nd hand). The action is a good balance of weight & responsiveness for pianos, EPs, guitar based samples etc. Not ideal for organ sounds, where most keyboardist prefer a "waterfall" keyboard action, but having said that I've had no problems putting down Hammond B3 organ parts with it (although I'm a piano player not an organ player).


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## emilio_n (Jun 30, 2020)

CGR said:


> It's no longer a current model, but you may be able to find a demo unit (or 2nd hand). The action is a good balance of weight & responsiveness for pianos, EPs, guitar based samples etc. Not ideal for organ sounds, where most keyboardist prefer a "waterfall" keyboard action, but having said that I've had no problems putting down Hammond B3 organ parts with it (although I'm a piano player not an organ player).


I found one 2nd hand! The price is slightly cheaper than a new P-515. (Around 10% less) I am not sure if worth it...


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## CGR (Jun 30, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> I found one 2nd hand! The price is slightly cheaper than a new P-515. (Around 10% less) I am not sure if worth it...


Yeah, it would need to be cheaper than that to be worth while (especially regarding warranty). The P-515 seems to be aimed more at home keyboardists (eg. built in speakers) whereas the CP4 is a stage piano built for studio/live playing. Not sure if the P-515 has a triple sensor action. It makes a big difference.


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## synthesizerwriter (Jun 30, 2020)

One of the reasons for the Pianobook.co.uk database of Master Keyboards is to try and build up information on non-current models so that people can consider both current and second hand... 

@CGR Your informed insights would be very welcome if you could spare the time to look at the database... PM me if you can...


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 30, 2020)

Very interesting thread, at least for me. I'm still muddling by with my old Yamaha S80, which has some very decent pianos and a few other good rompler sounds. A few killer pads.

I really like keyboard with at least a few built in sounds. I found that sample libraries often have timing playback issues that can really mess with your mind. Within the same midi phrase, some notes play late and others play early. It's loads of fun when your trying to hammer out a multi-part groove.

I don't notice this problem with the Yamaha. The timing feels solid. Not to mention that it's so nice to sit down and practice/experiment/compose without having to fire up a sample library on the computer and deal with latency, etc.



CGR said:


> It's no longer a current model, but you may be able to find a demo unit (or 2nd hand). The action is a good balance of weight & responsiveness for pianos, EPs, guitar based samples etc. Not ideal for organ sounds, where most keyboardist prefer a "waterfall" keyboard action, but having said that I've had no problems putting down Hammond B3 organ parts with it (although I'm a piano player not an organ player).


This looks intriguing. Does it have any programmable midi CC controllers. TIA!


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## synthesizerwriter (Jun 30, 2020)

Tim_Wells said:


> Within the same midi phrase, some notes play late and others play early. It's loads of fun when your trying to hammer out a multi-part groove.
> ...
> Does it have any programmable midi CC controllers. TIA!



Latency is a pain. Sometimes it is physics, sometimes it is software, sometimes it is lazy sample start point setting in one or two zones, and sometimes it mysteriously goes away (or re-appears) just to be annoying...

For MIDI CC, then there are lots of highly configurable devices around now, so I mix and match to suit the sound I'm using. I've even got a couple of DJ controllers, which are from the opposite end of the market to expensive boxes of sliders. 

Non-mainstream MIDI CCs to look at include: 
https://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/quneo/
http://www.faderfox.de/ec4.html
http://lividinstruments.com/products/cntrlr/
https://palettegear.com/midi
https://www.expressivee.com/buy-touche


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 30, 2020)

synthesizerwriter said:


> Latency is a pain. Sometimes it is physics, sometimes it is software, sometimes it is lazy sample start point setting in one or two zones, and sometimes it mysteriously goes away (or re-appears) just to be annoying...


And sometimes it's me... haha! 

Yeah, and it's not only latency but it's timing in general. Like I said, some notes start early, some start late. I'm kind of surprised I don't see more people complaining about it around here.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 30, 2020)

Dexibell Vivo S7 Pro.


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## synthesizerwriter (Jun 30, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Dexibell Vivo S7 Pro.



Thanks for this. I'm reading about it now!


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## Ashermusic (Jun 30, 2020)

synthesizerwriter said:


> Thanks for this. I'm reading about it now!




Because I have seen this play, I know how it ends.

Some guy comes on and says something like, "It uses a Fatar keyboard that a lot of others use and it isn't that great."

I then write that Dexibell had custom modifications of the top of the line Fatar for this keyboard.

Bottom line, I have the S7 first gen and I love playing it, and I played the newer model at NAMM and it felt even better.


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## synthesizerwriter (Jun 30, 2020)

@Ashermusic: The specs for the Dexibell Vivo S7 Pro look very good. You said: 'felt even better' - so your adjectives for how it felt would be?


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## Rory (Jun 30, 2020)

synthesizerwriter said:


> For MIDI CC, then there are lots of highly configurable devices around now, so I mix and match to suit the sound I'm using. I've even got a couple of DJ controllers, which are from the opposite end of the market to expensive boxes of sliders.
> 
> Non-mainstream MIDI CCs to look at include:
> https://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/quneo/
> ...



The fifth on your list, Palette Gear, is now called Monogram. There's a thread about Monogram's new Creative Console at the link below. This is essentially Palette Gear Mark II and is scheduled to ship next month, although the pandemic situation may affect that.

Link to the VI-Control thread on Monogram: https://vi-control.net/community/th...-palette-gear-its-new-midi-controllers.95025/


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## synthesizerwriter (Jun 30, 2020)

Rory said:


> The fifth on your list, Palette Gear, is now called Monogram.



Thanks for the correction. I should also have made it clear that Palette/Monogram MIDI support is formally in beta.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 30, 2020)

synthesizerwriter said:


> @Ashermusic: The specs for the Dexibell Vivo S7 Pro look very good. You said: 'felt even better' - so your adjectives for how it felt would be?



Even more like a real piano.

FWIW, Stevie Wonder owns two of them.


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## emilio_n (Jun 30, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Dexibell Vivo S7 Pro.


Interesting option!
This looks even better version: https://www.thomann.de/intl/hk/dexibell_vivo_stage_s_9.htm

But is crazy expensive! I will check it, but I am afraid, not easy to find here to test. For my initial list, I am close to getting the Yamaha P-515.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 30, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Interesting option!
> This looks even better version: https://www.thomann.de/intl/hk/dexibell_vivo_stage_s_9.htm
> 
> But is crazy expensive! I will check it, but I am afraid, not easy to find here to test. For my initial list, I am close to getting the Yamaha P-515.



Cheaper than the Nord Grand.


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## emilio_n (Jun 30, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Cheaper than the Nord Grand.


Yes, you are right... Expensive for my budget  hardly to invest on 1.500$ - 2.000$ but really can afford 2.500$ - 3.000$ range.


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## yatuo (Jun 30, 2020)

I highly recommend the Korg D1 as a really solid mid-price (here in the US can be found for around $700) digital piano if it is at all available in your area. It has the Korg RH3 keybed (the same keybed as the Korg Grandstage). Unlike other digital pianos it has no speakers but does have midi in/out. 

I've used it for the past year or so as a midi controller and really like its feel and velocity sensitivity.


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## chimuelo (Jun 30, 2020)

Checked out the Viscount Legend and although I won’t use it Live, it’s an impressive Fender Rhodes, EPno and Acoustic Piano.
It really gets the Rhodes feel too. To me Piano is the easiest sound to control on a good Keybed, the Rhodes has always been elusive, even the newest Real Fender Rhodes is nothing like the original Stage and Suitcase.
Legend series is really a great axe because you can’t stop playing it.

In Hong Kong there’s several places that should have it.


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## emilio_n (Jul 1, 2020)

I don't know if due to the Covid. not too much stock. I can't find even more common choices like Roland FP-90 or any Kawai here. Viscont Legend looks cool, but not the kind of action I am looking for.


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## emilio_n (Jul 1, 2020)

yatuo said:


> I highly recommend the Korg D1 as a really solid mid-price (here in the US can be found for around $700) digital piano if it is at all available in your area. It has the Korg RH3 keybed (the same keybed as the Korg Grandstage). Unlike other digital pianos it has no speakers but does have midi in/out.
> 
> I've used it for the past year or so as a midi controller and really like its feel and velocity sensitivity.


Looks interesting. I will try to find out tomorrow in to check the Keybed. Curious that doesn't have USB to connect the MIDI to the computer.


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## yatuo (Jul 1, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Looks interesting. I will try to find out tomorrow in to check the Keybed. Curious that doesn't have USB to connect the MIDI to the computer.



There are a few unusual things about it which can be solved by using various peripherals. I'll just list them here:

1) no USB connection - so it needs a Midi to USB interface like the Iconnectivity mio. 

2) the pedal jack does not support continuous midi cc and the half-damping compatible pedal that Korg offers with this unit needs to be purchased seperately. The half damping itself just adds a third cc 64 signal in the middle of the pedal range. This is the big downside of this unit but can be solved with something like connecting a Yamaha FC3A to your computer using an Audiofront Midiexpressions input.

3) no speakers, just headphone input.


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## Instrugramm (Jul 4, 2020)

I can recommend the Yamaha CLP-470, it was quite expensive back when I bought it, nowadays you might find a used one for little money.


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## emilio_n (Jul 4, 2020)

Finally I bought the RD-2000. 
checking the options in the shop, I tried the RD-2000 and I loved it. The Keybed is great, the controls perfect and I got nice price. So... waiting that arrive in a couple of days!!


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## CGR (Jul 4, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Finally I bought the RD-2000.
> checking the options in the shop, I tried the RD-2000 and I loved it. The Keybed is great, the controls perfect and I got nice price. So... waiting that arrive in a couple of days!!


Well done - that's a great choice, and a fantastic controller for software pianos. I'm pretty sure Rikard From is using an RD-2000 (or maybe an RD-800) in this demo of EZKeys (if not then it's a nice bit of playing anyway!):


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## kaisdevidasa (Jul 12, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Cheaper than the Nord Grand.



I'm currently debating within myself...Fantom, Vivo S9, S7 Pro. Is the S9 keybed/features worth the extra cost over S7 Pro? S9 model is older, yes? Maybe more due for an update? Midi 2? 

Thoughts? Thanks!


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## Ashermusic (Jul 12, 2020)

kaisdevidasa said:


> I'm currently debating within myself...Fantom, Vivo S9, S7 Pro. Is the S9 keybed/features worth the extra cost over S7 Pro? S9 model is older, yes? Maybe more due for an update? Midi 2?
> 
> Thoughts? Thanks!



If you are a serious pianist, the S9’s wooden key bed gives it the advantage.


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## Simeon (Jul 12, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> Finally I bought the RD-2000.
> checking the options in the shop, I tried the RD-2000 and I loved it. The Keybed is great, the controls perfect and I got nice price. So... waiting that arrive in a couple of days!!


Wow!
I remember playing one of these a few years ago at one of my favorite music stores. It was a great playing experience as the keyboard feel and action was just spot on. 
Enjoy!


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## kaisdevidasa (Jul 12, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> If you are a serious pianist, the S9’s wooden key bed gives it the advantage.



Thanks!


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## kaisdevidasa (Jul 12, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> If you are a serious pianist, the S9’s wooden key bed gives it the advantage.



I think I should have mentioned...I currently use a VPC1 and want to replace it with something that has more features for composing, etc..and ideally, lighter in weight.


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## Rasoul Morteza (Jul 12, 2020)

You could look into some GH, GHE or even GHS graded keyboards. Those touches are vastly superior to most MIDI keyboard actions I've tested.

Cheers


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## JamieLang (Jul 14, 2020)

kaisdevidasa said:


> I think I should have mentioned...I currently use a VPC1 and want to replace it with something that has more features for composing, etc..and ideally, lighter in weight.



Trade you for my Kronos88.  ...not sure it's a lot lighter...but, sliders and knobs and buttons, oh my-fully externally assignable...


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## kaisdevidasa (Jul 14, 2020)

JamieLang said:


> Trade you for my Kronos88.  ...not sure it's a lot lighter...but, sliders and knobs and buttons, oh my-fully externally assignable...


If only you had a RD-2000, I'd probably bite. Kronos is awesome though.


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## bill5 (Jul 18, 2020)

I know the OP has already bought one, but for anyone looking and general ref, might want to check this forum to ask about keyboards: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/forums/6/1/Digital Pianos - Synths & .html


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## Sean (Aug 24, 2021)

Ashermusic said:


> If you are a serious pianist, the S9’s wooden key bed gives it the advantage.


Hi Jay, I am currently looking at the Dexibell S7 Pro and remembered reading that you use one. I know you have nothing but positive things to say about it which is super encouraging but I was wondering if you can compare it to any other digital pianos actions? I'm wondering how different it might feel, I want to make sure I will like it. I tried a Nord Stage 3 and didn't really like it so that's why I'm hesitant. I'm not a serious classical pianist or anything but still am practicing piano and would like to get better.


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## bill5 (Aug 24, 2021)

Jay's not on the site any more FYI.


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## Sean (Aug 24, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Jay's not on the site any more FYI.


Ah thanks for the heads up, I totally randomly recalled this thread from a year ago and just hopped on to ask.


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