# What reverb settings use for percussion?



## Marcin M (Dec 31, 2016)

Hi, I wanted to asked what reverb should I use in orchestral(but only) tracks to make them sound good?

Somewhere I read that as percussion is always at the back of orchestra it should get more reverb than other instruments that are closer to listener. And somewhere else it suggested 20% dry and 80% wet reverb settings, but when I heared it I thought "just nope" it was definetly too much.

And as there isn't much solo percussion tracks to listen I don't know how other composers do it.

Any suggestions?


----------



## Symfoniq (Dec 31, 2016)

Plate reverbs are commonly used on percussion. They can really thicken up the sound without adding an overly long tail. But as far as how _much_ reverb to use on percussion, you have to decide that with your ears. A rule like 80/20 wet/dry isn't going to work in every situation.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 31, 2016)

Marcin M said:


> Hi, I wanted to asked what reverb should I use in orchestral(but only) tracks to make them sound good?
> 
> Somewhere I read that as percussion is always at the back of orchestra it should get more reverb than other instruments that are closer to listener. And somewhere else it suggested 20% dry and 80% wet reverb settings, but when I heared it I thought "just nope" it was definetly too much.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately there is no "yes you have always to do it like in a specific way" - It depends so much totally on the context, what samplers you are working with and finally what sound you aim for.
Ecspecially when working with Sample libraries which have multiple micings I tend to you use reverb only to glue and diffuse the sections slighty but not to create even more reverb. With micing faders you have already a good amount of control how far or direct you want your sound.
Beware to dial in too much reverb, handle that with care, otherwise your mix gets clouded and your orchestra sounds like coming from a gigantic trashcan. But also here it depends on the style of music: Do you use PRC just in a classic way to accent some very important parts? Or do you use them in the modern epic way where you have constanly banging drums? How fast is the music? Is it a slow track where you can normally dial in a bit more tail on the drums, or is it very fast action driven piece? It so much depends on style in music and context for me, also personal asthetics.
My tip: Experiment with the micing faders and build your own sound. A lot of of newer upper class libraries have a lot of offer in that regards. Then you can add a groupbus effects reverb and put a bit of extra trail and depth, but just little. It is like cooking, don´t overdue it. try it, give it a bit more, try it again.

Also you can fake "distance" and give the impression of room with corrective eq. How that works is sometimes a bit tricky. I say: Better use a bit of corrective eq instead of giving more soup on the reverb bus. (this applies not only to prc) But that is just my personal opinion and everybody else is free to chime in to tell his experiences.


----------



## WindcryMusic (Dec 31, 2016)

Since I know I tend to overdo reverb a bit, especially when listening to individual instruments, I always put each of my reverbs on a separate auxiliary channel with the fader set at unity gain, and use bus sends to get the instruments to them. Then after I've got my instrumentation complete and my mix roughed in, I pull back the faders for each of those reverb auxiliary channels about 1.5 to 2 dB, and I am invariably happier with the overall sound of the mix afterwards.


----------



## Iskra (Dec 31, 2016)

Besides what already stated by Alexander and windcrymusic (very good advice), if you want to position a relatively dry percussion far away -in the back- you might want to play a little with the predelay of your reverb. Something far away will have shorter predelay times, even 0, as the source and the reverb would get at the same time to the listener. Eqing some high frequencies always give a sense of 'farther away'. This not only apply to percussion, obviously.


----------



## Kony (Dec 31, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Unfortunately there is no "yes you have always to do it like in a specific way" - It depends so much totally on the context, what samplers you are working with and finally what sound you aim for.
> Ecspecially when working with Sample libraries which have multiple micings I tend to you use reverb only to glue and diffuse the sections slighty but not to create even more reverb. With micing faders you have already a good amount of control how far or direct you want your sound.
> Beware to dial in too much reverb, handle that with care, otherwise your mix gets clouded and your orchestra sounds like coming from a gigantic trashcan. But also here it depends on the style of music: Do you use PRC just in a classic way to accent some very important parts? Or do you use them in the modern epic way where you have constanly banging drums? How fast is the music? Is it a slow track where you can normally dial in a bit more tail on the drums, or is it very fast action driven piece? It so much depends on style in music and context for me, also personal asthetics.
> My tip: Experiment with the micing faders and build your own sound. A lot of of newer upper class libraries have a lot of offer in that regards. Then you can add a groupbus effects reverb and put a bit of extra trail and depth, but just little. It is like cooking, don´t overdue it. try it, give it a bit more, try it again.
> ...


Great advice as always, Alexander


----------



## Chandler (Dec 31, 2016)

Iskra said:


> Besides what already stated by Alexander and windcrymusic (very good advice), if you want to position a relatively dry percussion far away -in the back- you might want to play a little with the predelay of your reverb. Something far away will have shorter predelay times, even 0, as the source and the reverb would get at the same time to the listener. Eqing some high frequencies always give a sense of 'farther away'. This not only apply to percussion, obviously.



This is correct. I'd try this before going into really high wet mix levels. As things move farther away, predelay, highend, ER levels and stereo width should all decrease.


----------



## Marcin M (Jan 1, 2017)

Thank You for these advices. That was very helpful.


----------



## Beat Kaufmann (Jan 2, 2017)

Marcin M said:


> ...Somewhere I read that as percussion is always at the back of orchestra it should get more reverb than other instruments that are closer to listener. And somewhere else it suggested 20% dry and 80% wet reverb settings, but when I heared it I thought "just nope" it was definetly too much.
> 
> And as there isn't much solo percussion tracks to listen I don't know how other composers do it.
> 
> Any suggestions?



Hi Marcin
Percussion instruments are the loudest (average) instruments of an orchestra. That's the main reason why they are placed at the back. So they don't "cover" (acoustically) strings, woodwinds and other instruments in the concert situation. 
This is OK for a listener in a real concert. When we listen to recordings we are used to hear percussion instruments on the one hand far away as well but not in a "swamp" of reverb. (This was obviously your problem. When I am recording orchestras and other ensembles, I often give percussion instruments additional and supporting microphones - even if they are loud enough. But I can bring back a bit of their "crispy" transients in the mix later on. Not too much but so, that they appear a bit clearer: Example

So what means this for us as sample-mixers? 
20%dry/80%wet is rubish of course. It always depends on the reverb you use and how the rest of the mix is done. The trick is not to use a reverb which produces a nice reverb (tail) but one which mainly produces depth (distance). Of course: Best (natural) results you normally can achieve with certain *I*mpulse *R*esponses of convolution reverbs. If you have the possibility you can shorten those IRs so that you mainly have the distance without a long fading outs (tail). If you have found the wanted distance (of course a ratio between dry and wet - but adjusted by your ears) you can enhance perhaps the hights of those IR for having crisper "far-away-sounds" or you enhance the sound of the "far-away" instruments a bit. But attention, not too much because "bright and shiny" belongs to close playing instruments. Too much will distroy the impression of far away. 
Here a short Example without a lot reverb but with different depths/distances.

Hope I could give one more approache for better results.
Good luck and a lot of success 

Beat


----------

