# New version of a "Lost Legion" cue



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 6, 2005)

Hi guys,

Last weeks I have finally picked up making music again (after 10 months) and have added some stuff to this piece:

http://www.deltaworks.nl/forums/2005-12-06%20Peter%20Roos%20-%20The%20Lost%20Legion.mp3 (The Lost Legion (2005-12-06))

in order to update and improve my templates and mixer settings.

I have applied some quite drastic EQ to the brass and to the overall mix to reduce the mids, after comparing with several score CD's (mainly from JNH, my favorite sound).

I hope you like the sound, that was the main purpose of adding the extra parts (it has become a kind of a melting pot of influences: Zimmer, Elfman, Shore and Menken).

I am also exchanging a lot of LOP instruments with SAM's TrueStrike.

Cheers,


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## Dr.Quest (Dec 6, 2005)

Peter,
This is very cool. Great changes and it sounds great as well. Has a kind of Maurice Jarre/Lawrence feel in spots. How are you achieving the EQ? In logic there is a Match EQ that I have been using with great results. You have it analyze the EQ of something you like and then choose to apply it toward another sound. I've used the Gold violins to EQ the KH Emerald violins and it's pretty nice. Or using a Bernard Herrman String section EQ on a section of Gold.
Back to your piece...everything is very cool. The only part I find a little funny based on everything around it is the little brass walk up part to the tuba stac ending (shortly after that big brass part into the Lawrence-type part). That has a bit of a comedic vibe to it. But it's great over all.
NICE!
J


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## Niah (Dec 6, 2005)

Yes, very nice. I love the trumpets here, very expressive.


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## ComposerDude (Dec 6, 2005)

Really nice work! I remember enjoying the first version long ago, and this sounds even more detailed.

Good depth - are you applying different early reflections to each orchestral section?

Sometime back you mentioned custom 15-meter lightpipe cables -- were you able to get those to work, or what was the eventual solution?

BTW, which lib for the glockenspiel?

-Peter


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## Joseph Burrell (Dec 6, 2005)

Wow.

The instrumentation reminds me of Joseph LoDuca's work in Army of Darkness (that's a compliment from me since I love that soundtrack.)

Excellent work. I especially love the last minute or so when it really gets big and brassy.


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## Jackull (Dec 7, 2005)

It is really nice to listen to such an expressive piece. I can hear every note or instrument clearly, applies lots of dynamics. I can imagine how much efforts you put in this nice piece and it pays off. Just an observation, the ending sounds like you would wanted to continue a bit IMO. Other than that good job Peter, Now more of these...

jackULL


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## Frederick Russ (Dec 7, 2005)

Hey Peter! I was hoping you were going to finish this one - great dynamics and ambient instrument depth of field - and nice writing. You've got to write a pamplet on using those cool early reflections in your Samplicity collection - at any rate, nice to hear you writing again - post more!


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 7, 2005)

Hi Peter,

I enjoyed the piece a lot. I am now seeing the benefits of your impulses...good stuff. Please talk about your ambience setup. you need real git on this


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## Ed (Dec 7, 2005)

Dr.Quest said:


> In logic there is a Match EQ that I have been using with great results. You have it analyze the EQ of something you like and then choose to apply it toward another sound. I've used the Gold violins to EQ the KH Emerald violins and it's pretty nice. Or using a Bernard Herrman String section EQ on a section of Gold.



:shock: No fair! I want to do that! Is there some plugin that I can use!

Ed


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## PaulR (Dec 7, 2005)

Ed said:


> Dr.Quest said:
> 
> 
> > In logic there is a Match EQ that I have been using with great results. You have it analyze the EQ of something you like and then choose to apply it toward another sound. I've used the Gold violins to EQ the KH Emerald violins and it's pretty nice. Or using a Bernard Herrman String section EQ on a section of Gold.
> ...



Nice sound Pete - I remember it from last year.

Ed - Part of Powercore and if you're a student I expect you can get it cheaper.


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## Tod (Dec 7, 2005)

Wow Peter, this realy sounds sensational on my system. I think probably about as good or better than anything else I've yet downloaded.

Great Job.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 7, 2005)

Hey guys,

Thank you very much for the positive feedback! I really appreciate it.

Some answers to your questions and remarks:

Jamie: 

indeed I have used EQ-matching to get instruments from different libs sound alike. I have done the most drastic EQ-ing to Dan Dean Solo Horns and the ProjectSAM Horn Ensemble. Both libraries have a lot (way too much, IMO) mids, so I have treated both separately to lower their most prominent mid ranges. The DDS Horn also had very specific resonating areas, which were addressed with higher Q-values. At the end of this post you can see my two EQ settings for these libs. After correcting resonance areas in the DDSH I compared the sound of these libs with score recordings (mainly from JNH and Shore) and decided to take out even more mids and to significantly raise the lower high / high mids for SAM's horns. They are just too dull out of the box. Finally I started to compare the freqency spectra with Waves PAZ) for both libs.

Since I have created a special version of the DD solo horn, using the semi-tone shift trick, I can play four solo horns without any phasing. I tried to get their unison sound as close as possible to my SAM horns sound.

Finally, with panning and reducing the width of SAM horns I put them in roughly the same left part of the stage. The dry solo horns have been put backwards by adding TrueVerb Early Reflections. From that point on they both have a send signal into my "back" ambience bus, which has the European Hall loaded and which runs on a separate server, via FX-Teleport. I paid attention not to get to much ER's in the 0-150 msec range in this bus, because my DDSH and the SAM horns now already contain a lot of ER's.

Concluding with the EQ-ing, even my master bus has a Waves Ren EQ4, taking out quite a wide range of mids.

Similar things were done with the woodwinds and the strings (VSL and GOS, and the opening long note is from Ultimate Strings).

That comical line is actually a direct quote from Aladdin from Alan Menken. For such a short hit you not only need a tuba, but also the Gran Casa, a low note in the horns and the bass trombone.

Peter:

Indeed I treat different dry sections with TrueVerb instances (5 in total), using the same room size but different mic distances and ER-variations. 

I decided not to keep my GigaPC's at this distance, due to the Adat-length problems, so I have now 4 PC's next to my music desk 

jackULL:

Indeed, the ending was a very cheap way and the cue deserves some more coherence and repeatitions or variations of themes introduced earlier. For now, I just kept adding parts, in order to tweak my mixer settings.

Craig:

I use two stereo-to-stereo IR's, the Medium String Hall for the strings and the woodwinds and the European Hall for the brass and percussion (both IR sets from my Samplicity TCE 6000 presets collection).

Others:

Thanks for the compliments!

I really dig the openness of my true-stereo IR's, actually I did not really use them myself before, due to CPU constraints, but I have kicked out a number of plugins that I no longer need (in the ambience paths). The horns for instances really get a nice first echo on the right side, for which I first used a separate delay bus. In my previous setup I used mono-to-stereo IR's, which tend to fill up the center of the soundscape too quickly. With true stereo the reverb tail tends more to "evaporate" into the entire space.

Finally: I am not really up-to-date with libraries, so I am still using DDSB (which I really like), ProjectSAM, Westgate and Opus 1. I will probably ditch the Westgate woods, as they do not have enough body (too much air), although I really like their keyswitches. Apart from the FHs p legato, no VSL brass is used.







EQ for my (modified) Dan Dean Solo Horns, in which the notes around 500 Hz are too loud (hence the extra dip).






EQ for my ProjectSAM French Horn Ensemble, note a lift of 5 dB around 5K, to get a more brassy edge.






Overall EQ in the master bus


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## Marsdy (Dec 7, 2005)

Great cue Peter. Cool mix and lovely comp. Agree with Sharmster about the guitar. Hire me to re-do though not him!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 7, 2005)

I'd first have to transpose the opening from Cm to Em 

Well, I got this remark on NS as well - I guess I will have to start buying some guitars again! Used to be my first instrument. Great idea, actually!

And ComposerDude (Peter):
The Glock is from LOP


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## lux (Dec 7, 2005)

Cool piece Peter, ambient sounds great too.

Luca


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## Patrick de Caumette (Dec 7, 2005)

Hey Peter,

happy to hear you are back with music! :D 

The track sounds great, very powerful development, excellent sounding brass. Aa this tweaking was well worth it and demonstrates that sometimes, being radical with eq is just what the tracks need...

Great job!


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## Scott Cairns (Dec 7, 2005)

Peter, great job mate! 

I wasnt aware the big dynamic lift was coming, but when it did, it was still so clean and defined.. really nice stuff man.

Id been meaning to pop along and buy your IRs - and that just sold me 100% beyond any doubt. :wink:


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## Patrick de Caumette (Dec 7, 2005)

Peter's IRs are great!


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## synergy543 (Dec 7, 2005)

That is one smooth mix. Gotta love the clarity and depth of the ambience!



Peter Roos said:


> I use two stereo-to-stereo IR's, the Medium String Hall for the strings and the woodwinds and the European Hall for the brass and percussion (both IR sets from my Samplicity TCE 6000 presets collection).


Those Samplicity Verbs are so rich and really compliment each other very nicely. I can't wait to hear what you do with the 960. Peter you're offering such a great service to those of us who don't have room for four of those hardware boxes and controllers.  Your piece really shows off the value of Samplicity and thats a great deal your offering now as well.

"I tried Samplicity and my size almost doubled." :lol: 

[This ad blurb was unsolicited and stimulated only by the actual sound of the Samplicity reverbs. Although I expect with my next order Peter will include some candies as Sweetwater does.)


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## Dr.Quest (Dec 8, 2005)

Peter Roos said:


> EQ for my (modified) Dan Dean Solo Horns, in which the notes around 500 Hz are too loud (hence the extra dip).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Peter,
Thanks for sharing these EQ tips. This fits very well with the way I have been approaching things but with a new slant that I like very much.
It's great to see such an open, egoless sharing of ideas to make us better composers and engineers. You are to be commended (not to get to warm and fuzzy here).
Cheers and keep up the great work.
J


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## Dr.Quest (Dec 8, 2005)

Ed said:


> Dr.Quest said:
> 
> 
> > In logic there is a Match EQ that I have been using with great results. You have it analyze the EQ of something you like and then choose to apply it toward another sound. I've used the Gold violins to EQ the KH Emerald violins and it's pretty nice. Or using a Bernard Herrman String section EQ on a section of Gold.
> ...



This should do the same thing as Logic, maybe better. Try the demo.
http://www.elementalaudio.com/products/firium/index.html

J


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## Aaron Marshall (Dec 8, 2005)

Wow, great job Peter! This track sounds so rich and realistic. I wasn't sure if I was into it or not at first. At 1:29 when it kicks into overdrive I was floored. I don't think it could even be improved. You nailed such a great energy. 

-Aaron


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## Patrick de Caumette (Dec 9, 2005)

Dr.Quest said:


> Ed said:
> 
> 
> > Dr.Quest said:
> ...



Voxengo CurveEQ does it as well:

www.voxengo.com


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