# 4K tv as (daw) computer monitor? (2020)



## gsilbers (Jul 16, 2020)

I’ve been out of the loop on this topic.

Do these type of 4K tv work as a main computer monitor?

Insignia NS-50DF711SE21 50-inch 4K UHD TV - Fire TV Edition 

It’s 4:4:4 and 60hz refresh rate.

Not sure how much lag there might be... and not sure how to know.

Some online article mention that TVs nowadays have low latency compared to 2-4 years ago...


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## Pablocrespo (Jul 16, 2020)

I use a basic samsung 40" 4k since years and its the best 60hz and no noticeable lag for me

https://www.pablocrespo.com.ar/estudio/#&gid=1&pid=1 
you can see it in all its glory there...

I don´t know if 50inch is to much for you eyes to go round


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## Jdiggity1 (Jul 16, 2020)

Colors and clarity will generally not be as good as a good monitor (even if rated 4:4:4) but they're pretty good these days.
Can be very hit-and-miss in the lower end of the price range though. 
I currently use a relatively cheap 4k tv that honestly works very well and most people would be happy with it.
But the yellows are a bit off, and the clarity doesn't compare to a dedicated monitor like those from LG.


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## Doppler (Jul 16, 2020)

TV's work great as monitors these days. I think refresh rate used to be the issue, back in the day, which would make them laggy.

Amongst the two major brands Samsung & LG, Samsung seems to have lower latency and is often recommended in the gaming community.


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## cnogradi (Jul 16, 2020)

These are currently at a good price point on sale if you have a Costco membership. It is an IPS panel with good viewing angles. However, if you don't sit back a couple feet it gets to be a little too big to see all the edges.



https://www.costco.com/.product.9887343.html


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## jcrosby (Jul 16, 2020)

I have a 4k TV hooked up to my hackintosh. A Samsung 40 inch as well... Macs can be really picky with HDMI, you want to make sure whatever machine you drive the TV with will do 4k at 60 Hz.
Also cables can make a difference. Make sure you buy a class compliant HDMI cable rated for 60Hz, Monoprice is an awesome and affordable resource for this...





Search -60 HZ HDMI - HDMI Cable, Home Theater Accessories, HDMI Products, Cables, Adapters, Video/Audio Switch, Networking, USB, Firewire, Printer Toner, and more!


Monoprice, Inc. (DBA. MonoPrice.com) specializes in the wholesale distribution of world class cable assemblies for home theater, PC, and high technology industries. MonoPrice.com offers a wide range of products from standard PC products, network cables, and HDMI cables to custom cable assemblies...



www.monoprice.com





I saw you mention the 2018 MBP and mini, good idea to read this... (Spoiler the MBP can, the cable makes all the difference. Not sure about the mini, but imagine it can). Display _can_ make a difference as well so do a little research before jumping on the 1st TV.


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## colony nofi (Jul 16, 2020)

The samsung's are great (we use a couple of 55" at our studios) - but even with gaming mode turned on (the lowest latency) there is a noticable difference in speed between those and our 43" LG Monitors. 

So our primary monitors are the LG's and we now use samsungs for video sync outputs.

The colour accuracy on the monitor is much better than the samsung TV's. And price for the 43" LG is about the same as the 55" TVs.


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## classified_the_x (Jul 16, 2020)

They work generally but some are better than others. check https://www.rtings.com

they list the best tvs for use as monitors there, or they state on the specific model if it's good as computer monitor


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## reddognoyz (Jul 16, 2020)

I have a dell 40" 4k monitor and it works great


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## Bear Market (Jul 17, 2020)

I previously had two 27'' Apple Thunderbolt Displays and recently replaced them with a 55'' curved 4k Samsung TV. I'm happy with the additional vertical screen real estate and even if the DPI is lower than on my old Apple screens, it does not bother me. What does bother me, however, is the input lag. I tried to do my homework before buying the Samsung and supposedly it should offer one of the lowest input lags among similar TVs. Nevertheless, I experience noticeable input lag. Not to the extent that it makes it impossible to work, but enough that I need to slow down my mouse movement (that is pretty committed to muscle memory at this point). Oh well, I guess I will adjust. A word of warning though for you that contemplate moving to a TV monitor.

EDIT: don't be an idiot like me and forget to enable game mode on the TV. That will probably reduce input lag to unnoticeable levels. It did the trick for me!


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## jcrosby (Jul 17, 2020)

Bear Market said:


> I previously had two 27'' Apple Thunderbolt Displays and recently replaced them with a 55'' curved 4k Samsung TV. I'm happy with the additional vertical screen real estate and even if the DPI is lower than on my old Apple screens, it does not bother me. What does bother me, however, is the input lag. I tried to do my homework before buying the Samsung and supposedly it should offer one of the lowest input lags among similar TVs. Nevertheless, I experience noticeable input lag. Not to the extent that it makes it impossible to work, but enough that I need to slow down my mouse movement (that is pretty committed to muscle memory at this point). Oh well, I guess I will adjust. A word of warning though for you that contemplate moving to a TV monitor.


Have you tried gaming mode?


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## Bear Market (Jul 17, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> Have you tried gaming mode?



Dude! I am such an idiot. I could not for the life of me understand why I experienced such lag when the TV was supposed to have super low input lag. The devious folks at Samsung had hidden the game mode option deep down in the nested options menu. But now I found it and enabling it certainly did the trick!

Thanks @jcrosby! If you ever find yourself in Gothenburg, Sweden, hit me up and beers will be on me!


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## synthesizerwriter (Jul 17, 2020)

One 'less than obvious' and 'not so widely publicised' advantage/disadvantage (no such thing as a free lunch these days) of using a TV as a monitor is that the price of current 'Smart' TVs is subsidised by the data about your viewing habits then being sold by the manufacturer (of the TV, or the OS, or both). So if you use them solely as monitors, then you get the price reduction, but the manufacturer makes no money from you - although they are probably working on that... It's the usual escalation ladder: each side always keeps trying to gain an advantage, and averaged over time, neither one does, and both end up spending about the same... At the moment, TVs as monitors seems to be winning, but just wait...


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## shawnsingh (Jul 17, 2020)

More important than 4:4:4 or lag - Recommend direct LED back lighting instead of edge lighting. 60fps second most important.

When I was in the market for this, I got a nice LG TV that supported 4:4:4 at 60 fps, and it looked beautiful... except for typical computer usage that has a lot of flat colors across the entire screen. With a static gray or white background, the backlighting was blatantly too uneven and made me very unhappy.

I switched to a cheaper Vizio, which didn't even do 4:4:4, but the backlight is even, and it's great. I do get some color fringing with text at its smallest resolution, but I rarely encounter that - minimized the problem by doing some repeated trial and error with Windows ClearText configuration (does that still exist in Windows 10? It does for Win7), and also you can increase system DPI of text to 125%. You may end up slightly zooming on browser usage to 125% or 150% too, and with all that added up, text looks super beautiful smooth. So I rarely see that tiny text color fringing.

IMO, most important is the uniformity of the backlight. It's very annoying to see a color shift or intensity shift across a huge beautiful screen on flat colors.


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## Al Maurice (Jul 17, 2020)

For now I've avoided going down that rabbit hole, I've found 4K is not standardised.

In fact different manufacturers have different definitions of what warrants the 4K resolution.

So it all depends on how you plan on using it. If you are working with video or photography or graphic design, then for certain areas 4K is probably a must now. However for multimedia work such as composition I'm not sure if it's important yet. If you find the legibility of text or graphical notation with UI of some DAWs difficult to make out at HD standards, just consider what will happen at 4K.

Screen refresh was more of a concern on the old CRT displays, anything less than 100Hz for many became tiresome on the eyes. Now 60Hz is fine unless you play games with very racy, fast moving elements.


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## jcrosby (Jul 17, 2020)

Bear Market said:


> Dude! I am such an idiot. I could not for the life of me understand why I experienced such lag when the TV was supposed to have super low input lag. The devious folks at Samsung had hidden the game mode option deep down in the nested options menu. But now I found it and enabling it certainly did the trick!
> 
> Thanks @jcrosby! If you ever find yourself in Gothenburg, Sweden, hit me up and beers will be on me!


Yeah they really make it a pain in the arse to find so you bet! That sounds like an awesome invitation! Thanks a ton  I love a good beer so let's hope the inability to travel doesn't last forever.


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## shawnsingh (Jul 17, 2020)

Also turn off things like sharpness processing. Computer images end up actually sharper with it off because it removes the fringing artifact around high contrast edges.


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## gsilbers (Jul 17, 2020)

interesting stuff. thanks. prices have come down since last i checked a long while ago. sooo very tempting.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jul 17, 2020)

shawnsingh said:


> Also turn off things like sharpness processing. Computer images end up actually sharper with it off because it removes the fringing artifact around high contrast edges.


Just came here to say the same thing. Turning sharpness to 0 was probably the biggest improvement i could make to the default picture.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 17, 2020)

I use a Seiki 39” Ultra HD 4K tv as a second monitor with my iMac. I love it although at my age I cannot use it an it’s best resolution.


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## Pictus (Jul 17, 2020)

My main problem with TV is that most use PWM








Large Monitor - Gearspace.com


I hope this is in the correct forum. I run Pro Tools on a high powered Windows computer. I am putting together a new room and the room is large. There is ample space on the front wall of the control room to mount a large monitor. My peeps aren't what they



www.gearslutz.com


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## Ashermusic (Jul 17, 2020)

Pictus said:


> My main problem with TV is that most use PWM
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I have no idea whether mine does or doesn't, it's great for Logic Pro X.


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## Pictus (Jul 17, 2020)

Why I do not like








Why Pulse-Width Modulation (PWM) is such a headache


Explanation of PWM, when and why it is bad, and possible solutions




www.notebookcheck.net


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## jcrosby (Jul 17, 2020)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Turning sharpness to 0 was probably the biggest improvement i could make to the default picture.


Massively. I literally disabled pretty much all of the TV features. I even bumped the contrast down a little. Got it as close as I could to the display I replaced at the time, no complaints...


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## Kent (Jul 18, 2020)

How close are you sitting to your TV-monitors? (And what size are they?)


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## typewriter (Jul 18, 2020)

I use a Sony, I think 47 inch TV with full 4k resolution. Working great with hackintosh and PC. Only drawback is the onscreen messages of the Sony. It seems to me that there is some kind of HDMI resolution hand shake happening one in a while and the text overlay with the resolution information is displayed for 1or 2 seconds. This happens not very often - but overlays the Mac menu bar for a second. 

Next time I go for a bigger one to place it on the wall behind my desk to have more space on my desk.


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## shawnsingh (Jul 18, 2020)

55" sitting 1.5 meter away


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## proxima (Jul 18, 2020)

I'm contemplating choices like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YGZ7C1K/ (34-inch LG ultrawide monitor) versus this https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Class-Crystal-TU-8000-UN43TU8000FXZA/dp/B084JHKT7S?th=1 (43-inch 4k Samsung TV). It's amazing that the TV is $150 cheaper. The Samsung TV does use 600 hz PWM for backlighting. I'm honestly a little worried I'm not sitting far enough from where the monitor will be for 43" (it's about 1m), but I'm just looking to get tons of real estate above my keyboard.


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## gsilbers (Jul 18, 2020)

proxima said:


> I'm contemplating choices like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YGZ7C1K/ (34-inch LG ultrawide monitor) versus this https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Class-Crystal-TU-8000-UN43TU8000FXZA/dp/B084JHKT7S?th=1 (43-inch 4k Samsung TV). It's amazing that the TV is $150 cheaper. The Samsung TV does use 600 hz PWM for backlighting. I'm honestly a little worried I'm not sitting far enough from where the monitor will be for 43" (it's about 1m), but I'm just looking to get tons of real estate above my keyboard.



i have the non curve ultrawide. i still dont get the curve thing. doesnt make it more immersive and specially if its being seen from a little far away (having keyboards, ipads, faders etc in-between). 
but if u like those then cool. the non curve i think its priced lower. 

and i was actually looking into buying that samsung but50 inch. so id be interested in reading some comments about it. i doubt many have it though.


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## proxima (Jul 18, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> i have the non curve ultrawide. i still dont get the curve thing. doesnt make it more immersive and specially if its being seen from a little far away (having keyboards, ipads, faders etc in-between).
> but if u like those then cool. the non curve i think its priced lower.
> 
> and i was actually looking into buying that samsung but50 inch. so id be interested in reading some comments about it. i doubt many have it though.


Most of the non-curved versions I see are 1080 pixels tall, not 1440. I'm not sure I get the curve idea either.

The Samsung line is definitely their low-end 4K line. rtings has all kinds of detail about it, and it all seems...fine. Perhaps even better than expected in terms of evenness of blacks and color accuracy (not that I care that much about color accuracy in this case). The lack of wide viewing angles isn't a big downside for me either.

It is a VA panel, not an IPS like the LG monitor, but that too has its pros and cons (no IPS temporary burn-in...)


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## classified_the_x (Jul 19, 2020)

remember though that tvs do not auto power on like PC monitors do (after gone to screen saving mode). unless you have some fancy CEC Adapter of some sort. anyone know another solution to the auto power on issue? I'm currently turning the tv automatically after idle and then switching on manually


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## Robert Kooijman (Jul 19, 2020)

The curve thing is IMO actually very useful when you sit rather close to a large screen. Easier to see the left / right corners.


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## Al Maurice (Jul 20, 2020)

Most of these screens are just VDUs in disguise, TVs are a thing of the past; so there should be something out there good enough for your needs: plenty of options abound. Best to check out the specs and the reviews first. Although I prefer to look at them in person, which is difficult right now. Some have better colour balance and sharpness than others.


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## gsilbers (Aug 12, 2020)

So , anyone have that insigniA tv? It’s lower priced now


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## Kent (Aug 12, 2020)

__





I9 10900k OpenCore/Catalina Hackintosh Build Journal


Following with great interest!




vi-control.net





https://vi-control.net/community/th...a-hackintosh-build-journal.96309/post-4614633




I am loving my new Hisense H8G 50"!


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## whinecellar (Aug 12, 2020)

Some work, as long as you use the right cables/adapters, and everything is set right. There are a good handful of hoops to jump through though if you care at all about image quality. Even then, I haven’t seen one yet that matches the image quality of a dedicated monitor. 

After testing a handful of others (Vizeo, Sony) I landed on a 60”curved 4k Samsung a year ago and I absolutely love it. Since it’s only 4 feet from my face, the curve makes a huge difference and makes it feel really immersive. All the others I tried had one issue or another with my Mac...


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## gsilbers (Aug 12, 2020)

nice!!

i dont even know why im hestitating... i just bought damage2 and a few othe rlibraries for way more than the price of those tvs


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## gsilbers (Aug 12, 2020)

kmaster said:


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cool. 
im guessing its an addon webcam?

I think the insignia/tlc is about the same right? the only difference is that those "smart TVs" are being subsidized by data collection of tv viewing habits.


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## gsilbers (Aug 12, 2020)

whinecellar said:


> Some work, as long as you use the right cables/adapters, and everything is set right. There are a good handful of hoops to jump through though if you care at all about image quality. Even then, I haven’t seen one yet that matches the image quality of a dedicated monitor.
> 
> After testing a handful of others (Vizeo, Sony) I landed on a 60”curved 4k Samsung a year ago and I absolutely love it. Since it’s only 4 feet from my face, the curve makes a huge difference and makes it feel really immersive. All the others I tried had one issue or another with my Mac...



what type of hoops did u jump thorugh? is that cuz of the laptop vs desktop, adapters?


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## Kent (Aug 12, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> cool.
> im guessing its an addon webcam?
> 
> I think the insignia/tlc is about the same right? the only difference is that those "smart TVs" are being subsidized by data collection of tv viewing habits.


Yeah, it's a "Logi" brand webcam. Just clips on. It doesn't even dip below the bottom of the menu bar, so it's not like I am losing any screen real estate.

It's a smart TV, but I am not using it as anything but a monitor, so they (supposedly) have nothing to collect.

For $379, it's hard to beat!!


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## whinecellar (Aug 12, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> what type of hoops did u jump thorugh? is that cuz of the laptop vs desktop, adapters?



All of the above. MacBook Pro > Caldigit TS3+ Dock, finding an active HDMI 2 cable and DisplayPort to HDMI adapter combo that supports 4k and 4.4.4 chroma at 60 Hz, etc. It’s a pain in the butt, but worth it when it works!


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 12, 2020)

I use a 48"... it was the best one I could get that wasnt curved - but i had tried the model below it at 40" and that was a much better size. 

48 is pushing it, go 40 if you can. You have to have monitors in a reasonable spot, and your concept or stereo image is kind of silly when you're putting your speakers 4 feet apart.


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## marius_dm (Aug 16, 2020)

I just got a 49” LG (https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/nano85). Looks pretty good once you turn off power saving and turn on gaming mode. But many vst plugin interfaces don’t follow the scaling in windows and they look tiny. How is NI not on top of this??


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## dmpol18 (Jan 6, 2021)

I want to ask you 4k monitors owners: 
what scaling are you using and at what distance from monitor you're sitting?

Here's a list of 4k sizes/options grouped by pixel size from big to smaller in comparison to FullHD display size we are more familiar with.

27' FullHD PPI: 81.59 PPI
43' at 125% scaling gives 3072 x 1728
PPI: 81.97 / 1.05 m (3.4 ft)*
55' PPI: 80.11 / 1.14 m (3.7 ft)

24' FullHD PPI: 91.79 PPI
48' PPI: 91.79 / 0.96 m (3.2 ft)

22' FullHD PPI: 100.13 PPI
43' PPI: 102.46 / 0.87 m (2.9 ft)

20' FullHD PPI: 110.15 PPI
32' at 125% 3072 x 1728 (5 308 416)
PPI: 110.15 / 0.79 m (2.6 ft)
34' Ultrawide 21:9 3440 x 1440 (4 953 600)
PPI: 109.68 / 0.79 m (2.6 ft)

* Visual Acuity distance


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## Robert Kooijman (Jan 6, 2021)

Using a curved 55" 4k TV with 125% scaling at about 1-1.2m distance. Similar PPI to 27" 1080p monitors, of which we have curved ones left and right of the 4k TV as well.
For my eyes, smaller screens would be pushing it and require at least 150% scaling


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## typewriter (Jan 6, 2021)

I use a 43" Sony TV and I use no scaling. It sits on my desk around 50-60cm distance to my eyes.


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## whinecellar (Jan 6, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> what type of hoops did u jump thorugh? is that cuz of the laptop vs desktop, adapters?


First and foremost, finding a good dock to run the whole rig since my main machine is a MacBook Pro (I needed to be mobile since I did a lot of touring before COVID). So, the Caldigit TS3+ is the only reliable solution I found for that.

Then you need the right HDMI 2.0 cable and/or Display Port adapter combo that support 4k at 60Hz, etc. - that can be finicky. A lot of cables/adapters I tried limited me to 30 Hz which is atrocious.

And finally, your monitor/TV is part of the equation as well. So really, you have to experiment with your own setup to get results


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## typewriter (Jan 6, 2021)

I might make sense to do not all connections with a single tb dock but use a separate adapter for video (hdmi). Then you won't have strange bandwith problems. All docks have at least some issues.


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## Andrew Aversa (Jan 6, 2021)

Not quite 4k, but... I recently switched from dual 24" 1080p 144hz monitors to one 34" ultrawide 1440p 120hz monitor and I LOOOVE it.


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## dmpol18 (Jan 6, 2021)

I saw UW one in a store and while it's ok overall, I don't want to use it because of too small fonts and UI elements. I have dual 24'' setup now and I would easily switch to pair of 27'' and put them a little bit further back to increase the distance from the eyes and to reduce the eye strain. I spend A LOT of time at the screen and I think 110 ppi won't be good for my eyes...

This guy use 48'' at 150 scale which is equivalent for 2k


I'm leaning toward 
43' at 125% 3072 x 1728 PPI: 81.97 (kind of 3k)
or 55' at 100% PPI: 80.11


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## shawnsingh (Jan 6, 2021)

Anyone using OLED 4k TV? Are problems with burn-in very real?

For non-OLED - I'm surprised no one else mentioned full-array backlight prerequisite. For me edge-lit was so bad that even though it supported 4:4:4 @ 60 Hz, I returned it and got a full-array backlit TV that didn't support 4:4:4, and I've been happy for years with that.

On the other hand, looks like enough TV's support 4:4:4 these days that finding a full-array backlight with 4:4:4 @ 60 Hz shouldn't be a problem.


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## Vokes (Apr 21, 2022)

Kent said:


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Do you have eye strain or headaches? I want to get a really budget friendly Hisense A6 43 inch, will you reccomend it?


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## Kent (Apr 21, 2022)

Vokes said:


> Do you have eye strain or headaches? I want to get a really budget friendly Hisense A6 43 inch, will you reccomend it?


I used to, until I started using the TV!


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## Vokes (Apr 21, 2022)

Kent said:


> I used to, until I started using the TV!


Do you know if it's okay to use a 4k monitor 43 inch with 180hz PWM Dimming Frequency?


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## Kent (Apr 21, 2022)

Vokes said:


> Do you know if it's okay to use a 4k monitor 43 inch with 180hz PWM Dimming Frequency?


not off the top of my head, sorry!


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