# Double Stops Octave Double Bass???



## Callum Hoskin (Jul 28, 2018)

I am arranging strings parts for a live show. There is a passage where the double basses play octaves where I would usually divisi them but for this concert we will only have 1 bass and both notes are equally important, the line is quite slow so can I get the bass player to play both notes? P.S. They are always an octave apart


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## bryla (Jul 28, 2018)

Only if one is an open string or you pizz them. Octave notes are not stopped on adjacent strings so the bow wouldn’t be able to play them at the same time.


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## Callum Hoskin (Jul 28, 2018)

Thx a lot for the help. That’s not the answer I was hoping to hear looks like I’ve got a bit of arranging to do!!! Thx


bryla said:


> Only if one is an open string or you pizz them. Octave notes are not stopped on adjacent strings so the bow wouldn’t be able to play them at the same time.


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## JohnG (Jul 28, 2018)

I usually write them as divisi

Even if you only have two it sounds good. If three, one up, two down


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## brenneisen (Jul 28, 2018)

if he has large hands tune E to C then it should be doable on adjacent strings


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## bryla (Jul 28, 2018)

brenneisen said:


> if he has large hands tune E to C then it should be doable on adjacent strings


How should that make it possible? The span is still considerably larger than the span of a hand (consider bottom D to D on the A string). It seems like the only octave it would suit would be the C (from the lowest string) to the C above. Technically this is no different than playing the low E string and stopping an E on the A string. Still both of these are on the condition I noted as 'only if one is an open string' which probably wouldn't be enough for any melodic situation.

@Callum Hoskin: Look at what other instruments you have to play either note. Cellos or bassoons could play the top one for example.


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## brenneisen (Jul 28, 2018)

bryla said:


> The span is still considerably larger than the span of a hand.



only 4 "frets", not that large 



bryla said:


> Technically this is no different than playing the low E string and stopping an E on the A string.



very different because you can't hit a F1 and a F2 if 'E string' is E1. 'E string' being C1 (or even B0) would turn moving octaves doable by using this #5-power-chord hand position.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 28, 2018)

Can you use an alternating rhythm. Surely a double stop in this context would create a dull effect


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## bryla (Jul 28, 2018)

brenneisen said:


> only 4 "frets", not that large
> 
> 
> 
> very different because you can't hit a F1 and a F2 if 'E string' is E1. 'E string' being C1 (or even B0) would turn moving octaves doable by using this #5-power-chord hand position.


Makes sense! Guess I shouldn't be thinking so hard after a couple of glasses


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## thesteelydane (Jul 28, 2018)

bryla said:


> Only if one is an open string or you pizz them. Octave notes are not stopped on adjacent strings so the bow wouldn’t be able to play them at the same time.



This is the correct answer. And apart from that, I would encourage everyone to never write double stops for any string instrument unless you know exactly what you're doing, so I applaud the OP for asking in the first place!

And while we're at it, if you want two notes a fifth apart to be smoothly connected on violin, viola and cello, you have to be aware that it is played not just as double stop (even when played one note at a time), but a double stop played with a single finger, and that places severe restrictions on what is possible. The only other option is a position change, which is no problem at all, but that requires what comes before and after the fifth to naturally lend itself to a positions change. So there is no shortcut, you have to understand basic string fingerings if you want to write FOR the instrument, or you very quickly end up writing AGAINST it.

Sorry for the rant. The 5th thing is a pet peeve of mine because it instantly tells me the composer hasn't bothered to study the instrument he/she is writing for.


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## bryla (Jul 28, 2018)

thesteelydane said:


> This is the correct answer. And apart from that, I would encourage everyone to never write double stops for any string instrument unless you know exactly what you're doing, so I applaud the OP for asking in the first place!
> 
> And while we're at it, if you want two notes a fifth apart to be smoothly connected on violin, viola and cello, you have to be aware that it is played not just as double stop (even when played one note at a time), but a double stop played with a single finger, and that places severe restrictions on what is possible. The only other option is a position change, which is no problem at all, but that requires what comes before and after the fifth to naturally lend itself to a positions change. So there is no shortcut, you have to understand basic string fingerings if you want to write FOR the instrument, or you very quickly end up writing AGAINST it.
> 
> Sorry for the rant. The 5th thing is a pet peeve of mine because it instantly tells me the composer hasn't bothered to study the instrument he/she is writing for.


I'm with you on that! Just as this question was about the double bass (tuned in fourths) the power chord 5th grib is a two finger maneuvre made possible by tuning a string down. Some jazz / world bassists use this – especially in the higher positions – but I would never count on it to work in any situation. If I had the idea to do it, it would be with consultation with the player actually playing it. Other than that it is only technical speculation.


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## thesteelydane (Jul 28, 2018)

bryla said:


> I'm with you on that! Just as this question was about the double bass (tuned in fourths) the power chord 5th grib is a two finger maneuvre made possible by tuning a string down. Some jazz / world bassists use this – especially in the higher positions – but I would never count on it to work in any situation. If I had the idea to do it, it would be with consultation with the player actually playing it. Other than that it is only technical speculation.



Exactly! My bassist friends tells me 5ths are generally not as problematic on the bass as they are for the rest of the string family, where how they are handled is always a big tell tale sign of the thoughtfulness of the composer.


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