# Does anybody know a good electric rhythm guitar VST?



## HREQ (Aug 22, 2017)

I just want good doubletracked rhythm guitar for my songs.

I currently have Amplesound AGG (newest update, haven't tried the new strum engine feature yet.) Trillian, IK Modo Bass, Realeight, Amplitube 4, Guitar Rig 5(came with komplete), Bias FX/Amp. (recently bought a few days ago, it sounds so much better! I think I can figure out the tone with this )

I found I get better strumming from amplesound, and bias FX and AMP sounds the best to me so far, but I still don't know how to produce the sounds I want, or get the guitar sounding like it's actually a rhythm guitar here.
(watch for 10 secs)

(watch for 10 secs)

(watch for 10 secs)


(watch first 19 secs, is this even possible on VST? lol)




Now I've heard to get a good "chugging" sound it depends alot on the BASS as well, I must just suck at picking guitar tones and programming this right. I don't play guitar. But I've tried alot with the presets in GR and Amplitube already in the ampsims, I've tried the marshall amps mostly, I really wanna get that metalish distortion fast palm mutes, from first video.

Can anybody tell me how to do these with my current software? I was thinking of getting shreddage but I already have Amplesound AGG, and most videos are a gibson, so I thought I could get it to work somehow.


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## SBK (Aug 22, 2017)

Virtual Guitarist IRON!


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## Saxer (Aug 22, 2017)

https://impactsoundworks.com/product/shreddage-ii-absolute-electric-guitar/
with
https://www.scuffhamamps.com/product/s-gear


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## HiEnergy (Aug 22, 2017)

Sugar Bytes Guitarist with Guitar Rig (four guitars to choose from, the built-in effects of Guitarist are rather weak and sound artificial)


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## Uncle Peter (Aug 22, 2017)

HiEnergy said:


> Sugar Bytes Guitarist with Guitar Rig (four guitars to choose from, the built-in effects of Guitarist are rather weak and sound artificial)



"but I still don't know how to produce the sounds I want"

In terms of engineering the sound with guitar rig: It's a classic 80's metal sound. Palm muted, scooped mids (bass up, treble up, mids down). The 'High white' amp has got me some decent results in the past, although it might be a bit brittle for your needs - It's a question of selecting the right cabinet and mic - ear judgement required. The EQ is very important.

Think I used the High White for the main chug on this track (chug starts at 0:37)

I think there's a 'master of puppets' preset in guitar rig somewhere - that would be a good start. In fact the Nickelback preset might be event better.

Amps you should gravitate towards:
Van 51
Hot Solo
High White
Gratifier

For rock solid chug - use a compressor on the DI signal (or clean guitar sample) with a medium/high ratio and fast attack - the examples you provided don't seem to have much in the way of dynamic response (sounds a bit too artificial/shit) - but you don't want too much variation in loudness. Then compress the final output with something like PSP vintage warmer (Tape track presets I find are good for the chug rhythm - tweak to taste)

VI route - you'll need good tight clean palm mute samples


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## thov72 (Aug 22, 2017)

maybe simple but http://www.sampleoddity.com/thrashdi/ could do it


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## Steinmetzify (Aug 22, 2017)

As a guitarist first and foremost, the favorites for VSTs I've found (and I've tried them all) are Amplitube 4s Mesa Boogie pack, the Orange pack, and two from Mercuriall, the U530 (an Engl e530 sim) and their Spark program......it's 4 different Marshalls with built in FX including a gate, chorus and delay, and the ability to move the 4 cab IRs around in 2d which makes a big difference to me.

Like you said, the bass is an integral component to keep guitars from sounding thin, tight double tracking is a must, and mids are important....guitar sits in a certain realm of the audio spectrum and bass is lower (you know this but it's always good to hear) and mixing them is an art. Cut everything below 100 kHz for the guitars because you never hear it anyway in a full mix, and boost the bass at around 400 kHz to start.....then fine tune using your ears.

For settings, start on something with everything at noon, and then CUT AWAY everything you don't like.....this is a much faster way to sculpt a tone than just kicking everything up to 10 and trying to make things sound balanced. Also, add a boost in front of the amp....there are usually 3 controls minimum, and those are all you need. Level, Gain, and Tone......Level is always all the way up, Gain all the way down if you're getting gain from your amp sim (you can add some here if you want a lower gain level in your amp) and tone to taste.

This boost pedal trick is an old recipe for tightening up the tones....I use a lot of Mesa Rectifiers, and while I love those tones for most of the metal I do, the bottom end is ALWAYS flubby......this trick tightens up the low end and bumps the mids a bit and makes it stand out in the mix more.

Example....this is a Les Paul Custom with an EMG 81 in the bridge, a PlxFX Bion boost, and that U530 sim, using a Celestion IR, with the EQ cuts I talked about above. Little heavier than what you posted above, but still.


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## imagegod (Aug 22, 2017)

Wow, Shreddage really lives up to its name! I'm a classical composer and I've always wanted to add a 'Death Metal' sound to my work, and this really fits the bill...it also sound like the OP's videos...at least to my ears.

Anyone know how difficult it is to get the OP's requested sound out of Shreddage? Or any 'Death Metal' related sound for that matter, rhythm and/or lead?

Thanks!


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## TheNorseman (Aug 22, 2017)

https://lepouplugins.blogspot.com/

These are the best and they are free. Just spend a couple of bucks on Recabinet and you are golden.


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## soundbylaura (Aug 22, 2017)

Orange Tree Samples Dracus has some good chugging and excellent double-tracking.


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## Replicant (Aug 22, 2017)

IMO all the guitar virtual instruments except for Prominy's V-Metal pretty much suck and for the price of these plugins, you could buy the real deal and sound way better.

Anyway, Prominy and I think it's called "Real LPC" or something like that is your best bet as far as virtual goes. The strumming is essential for that J-Pop style you're after in those links and that's where most VST guitars struggle hardcore.



Also, don't scoop the mids and watch out for around 4k with amp sims because my god, the hiss that amp sims have up there is brutal.


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## TheNorseman (Aug 22, 2017)

Replicant said:


> IMO all the guitar virtual instruments except for Prominy's V-Metal pretty much suck and for the price of these plugins, you could buy the real deal and sound way better.
> 
> Anyway, Prominy and I think it's called "Real LPC" or something like that is your best bet as far as virtual goes. The strumming is essential for that J-Pop style you're after in those links and that's where most VST guitars struggle hardcore.
> 
> ...




I didn't realize we were talking about guitar virtual instruments. I've played guitar for 12 years so I think they all suck. But you're right, the Prominy is the only one that can actually pass. I could only imagine how much of a pain in the ass that would be to program. It's probably worse than me trying to record to a click.


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## StatKsn (Aug 24, 2017)

For those J-Pop-ish lead guitars I think it's nearly impossible to mimick with anything other than Prominy's. Rhythm guitars are totally different problem and there are very few guitar VIs that do rhythm guitars convincingly, but if you are willing to roll out strums in piano roll and possibly use a few noise samples from other VIs you can also do with Prominy (Shreddage has awesome scripting and automatic double-tracking but it might sound too heavy).

IMHO there are two major problems with most electric guitar VIs: shorts just suck (piano-like release) and too few noise samples.


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## Rey (Aug 24, 2017)

also check out Heavier7strings guitar from three body tech. I think they have a demo song call ''attack of the software". its made by them due to request from customer about making the guitar sound more like Japanese anime pop rock music. its on youtube check it out. and the demo guitar preset and midi included in the guitar. the guitar can be used for lead, rhythm and bass. no need other amps, everything included


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## Steinmetzify (Aug 24, 2017)

My bad guys, I thought we were talking about actual amp sims....OP mentioned Amplitube and BIAS, I thought he was asking for better sims. I didn't even know there WERE vi's for guitar, never needed em.


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## sostenuto (Aug 24, 2017)

soundbylaura said:


> Orange Tree Samples Dracus has some good chugging and excellent double-tracking.



Agree ... and after purchasing lots of Amp/Cab sims, really find most of Greg's (OrangeTreeSamples) Snapshots to be as good or better. Have GuitarRig5, almost all Kazrog LLC, some others, .... Greg spends heavyduty time and his expertise on 'snapshots' and specific to each guitar/bass library.

Such a personal choice, but good to try and decide ??


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## SBK (Aug 24, 2017)

++ for VMetal the best electric metal guitar!


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## Vastman (Aug 24, 2017)

Very different...VERY AWESOME, very inexpensive... http://new.dreamaudiotools.com/; http://new.dreamaudiotools.com/product-category/guitar-line/

Their indie fingers collection and dream guitars are a total blast...amazing rhythmic nirvana...

There is NOTHING ELSE like these wonderful tools and they are indespensible


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## sostenuto (Aug 24, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Very different...VERY AWESOME, very inexpensive... http://new.dreamaudiotools.com/; http://new.dreamaudiotools.com/product-category/guitar-line/
> 
> Their indie fingers collection and dream guitars are a total blast...amazing rhythmic nirvana...
> 
> There is NOTHING ELSE like these wonderful tools and they are indespensible



Can I input these as MIDI to play huge library of OTS Guitars, Basses ??


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## Replicant (Aug 24, 2017)

StatKsn said:


> IMHO there are two major problems with most electric guitar VIs: shorts just suck (piano-like release) and too few noise samples.



In my opinion, the problem is that the instrument relies on many techniques that are difficult or impossible to emulate effectively with multi-samples. Like, Shreddage doesn't even sample fourths.

Strumming patterns, bends, harmonics, noise, all the various different dyads or sus chords the distortion still allows for, the differences in tone depending which string you fret it, etc. A great example of a dead give away for VST guitars, in the case of Shreddage, is whenever you play a pinch harmonic. It's a unique sample, so it stands out like a sore thumb. Whereas playing the real thing means no two harmonics ever sound exactly the same; radically different in many cases, but that would be just too much to reliably sample. 

As such, most VST guitars are reduced to only being good for shitty, robotic "djent" rhythms.

A good test is how well can the guitar play Seventeen by Winger?


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## TheNorseman (Aug 25, 2017)

I feel like you could say that about all instruments. I could easily tell if someone is playing a vi guitar, because I can hear all the micro techniques. But I could never tell the difference if someone was playing a vi violin....

I'm sure 90% of us in this forum are here because sometime in the past we started playing an instrument, and we know that instrument very well, and can hear every nuance in that instrument. I use all midi, except I record my own guitars. It's literally the only audio I use. 

But back to the point, I don't think vi guitars come anywhere close to the actual guitar, but I absolutely believe they can get the job done just like any other vi.


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## Vastman (Aug 25, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Can I input these as MIDI to play huge library of OTS Guitars, Basses ??


No...they are all riffs wrapped within an intelligent playable gui. However, you can extract the midi... from the notes you create in an audio file generated by playing with the vst... using melodyne or other such tools and then skys the limit. ... 
The nice thing about indie fingers is the simplicity of the rhythms. They are great and have low sample size/cpu hits

google indie fingers and under videos you'll see a bunch of stuff to see if these might be a fun and useful tool. I have to admit, as they are sooooo cheap, I just took a flyer and bought one years ago and fell in love with their ability to generate song ideas and rhythmic beds. I have them all now for way below the price of just one of the major guitar libraries.

try it... you just can't stop at one... as the commercial says!


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## Vastman (Aug 25, 2017)

Replicant said:


> In my opinion, the problem is that the instrument relies on many techniques that are difficult or impossible to emulate effectively with multi-samples. Like, Shreddage doesn't even sample fourths.
> 
> Strumming patterns, bends, harmonics, noise, all the various different dyads or sus chords the distortion still allows for, the differences in tone depending which string you fret it, etc. A great example of a dead give away for VST guitars, in the case of Shreddage, is whenever you play a pinch harmonic. It's a unique sample, so it stands out like a sore thumb. Whereas playing the real thing means no two harmonics ever sound exactly the same; radically different in many cases, but that would be just too much to reliably sample.
> 
> ...




Really? You sound threatened.. imo you're employing the same bullshit arguements orchestrators use to spew before they woke up and embraced the many amazing libraries out there. I've worked with many awesome guitar players over the years and yet find the OTS libraries quite satisfactory for many songwriting endeavours. Plus they don't have the holier than thou attitude of some I've come across.



Doubt you could consistently fingerpick like Realitone's Fingerpick nor play many of the rhythms posible with ots. Guitar is more than a heavy metal shred.


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## Vastman (Aug 25, 2017)

Saying _As such, most VST guitars are reduced to only being good for shitty, robotic "djent" rhythms..._showes you dont know what ur talking about. And i doubt you could even begin to m match the quality and intricate finger picking possible from Realitone's fingerpick act nor the intricate strums possible from OTS guitars.

Guitar vsts are much more than a fantastic shred


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## Replicant (Aug 25, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Saying _As such, most VST guitars are reduced to only being good for shitty, robotic "djent" rhythms..._showes you dont know what ur talking about. And i doubt you could even begin to m match the quality and intricate finger picking possible from Realitone's fingerpick act nor the intricate strums possible from OTS guitars.
> 
> Guitar vsts are much more than a fantastic shred



I have been playing the guitar since I was six years old. So, that's 19 years now; I know what the instrument can do, how it works, how it plays.

The reality is that samples — yes, even for orchestra — are still only a second-best option and are nowhere near as capable or as efficient as real players. I think you'd be hard pressed to find too many accomplished composers or orchestrators here who would argue that. It's not enough to "sound real", but we use them out of necessity and the ability to hear a composition without hiring people to record it.

So no, I'm not threatened by 90% of guitar VSTis, which _are_ extremely limited in what they can do, often sound blatantly fake, and one can buy and learn to play the real thing, with better results, for a cheaper price. If anything, you sound threatened by the fact that maybe people with the ambition to actually learn toplay the most popular instrument in the world, _still _produce better results than those who would rather hand everything over to a computer.

So, unless you can make _most_ VST electric guitars convincingly play like Steve Vai, Kenny Wayne Shepard, Reb Beach, Bettencourt, Joe Perry, Bill Leverty, Skolnik, Steve Stevens, Santana, John Sykes, or other guitarists like that — you can take your comments, along with Shreddage, and shove them up your ass.


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## Vastman (Aug 25, 2017)

Virtual Instrument Forum.... 

OP has asked for feedback on options for guitar and you proceed to trash virtual guitars... what's next? You gonna visit every orchestral product thread and spew there? You have added NOTHING to the quest for insight which this forum is here to share...

Sounds like trolling to me. If you don't have anything to share beyond Shreddage not being your cup of tea, you might wanna take these blanket comments to your "real guitar" forums...

If you wanna discuss real vs virtual, start a thread. You are hijacking a real human's quest for information on what's available and spewing venom. Not appreciated.


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## Replicant (Aug 25, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Virtual Instrument Forum....
> 
> OP has asked for feedback on options for guitar and you proceed to trash virtual guitars... what's next? You gonna visit every orchestral product thread and spew there? You have added NOTHING to the quest for insight which this forum is here to share...
> 
> ...



Don't know if you read the thread, but I recommended Prominy's V-Metal to the OP and I explained what most virtual guitars lack.

I recommend a real guitar more, though. Of which, guitar players are a dime a dozen and a decent build of the instrument can be purchased for a comparable or even cheaper price than many of these VSTs.

Unlike guitar, — I can't just go out and spend a few hundred bucks to hire the London Philharmonic, so I'm forced to stick with samples for now.


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## Vastman (Aug 26, 2017)

The focus of a 25 year old on two instruments... both for metalheads... is not what I consider a significant knowledge base to operate from... Nor is your assumption that just anyone can pick up a "real guitar" and sound like your shredder list or the truly greats like Ted Greene, a good friend who went well beyond. Had great empathy and dedication; not a "lick" of childish huberis...and am quite certain that if he were still here he would be amazed at the VI Guitars being put out by guitarist's like Greg at Orange Tree Samples... All of these folks are rare birds.

Hopefully the OP will consider the thoughts of others as well... more productive than spending 19 years to learn to play!

Good night...enough words wasted on your schtick


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## Replicant (Aug 27, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Nor is your assumption that just anyone can pick up a "real guitar" and sound like your shredder list or the truly greats like Ted Greene



Literally never said anything about "shred", nice strawman. 

Most VST electric guitars could not play the _main riff_ to songs like Seventeen. There's no "shred" there, it's simply more advanced than single-note chugs and power chords.

_You don't use the lowest-skill playing as the benchmark for evaluating virtual instruments_; you use the highest.

The OP needs to be aware that for the sound (s)he is after in those examples, the options are limited in regard to VSTs.

Also, Orange Tree Samples' guitars sound terrible, especially in the lead playing; so I doubt Ted Greene would be impressed.


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## JC_ (Aug 27, 2017)

Replicant said:


> _You don't use the lowest-skill playing as the benchmark for evaluating virtual instruments_; you use the highest.



Most of us only care about what a virtual instrument does well in the context of a composition. Sure, it is nice to be able to do more with a single sample lib but if you don't have the right sound for a part, having someone play it live is usually a good option. So, "low-skill" articulations are extremely important.


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## sostenuto (Aug 27, 2017)

Replicant said:


> Literally never said anything about "shred", nice strawman.
> 
> Most VST electric guitars could not play the _main riff_ to songs like Seventeen. There's no "shred" there, it's simply more advanced than single-note chugs and power chords.
> 
> ...



.... and what is the point re. Thread about Guitar VST. There are some very talented people, worldwide, doing their best to make better versions available ... _for so many who have on choice but to use VSTi_.

Orange Tree Samples is one of those contributors and it doesn't take much attention to this Forum to get a clue how well Greg S. is admired and respected. With no Scarbee or OTS, how do I (keyboardist) enjoy Guitar in my projects ??


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## TheNorseman (Aug 27, 2017)

I really don't want there to be a debate about any of this. The truth about this subject is a simple as this: Guitar VI's are not as good as the real guitar. But it is a legitimate tool for anyone who is not a guitar player. That's the truth and bottom line. 

Let me make a simple point here, I have been playing guitar (heavy metal) for a really long time. But I can't shred like Steve Vai. I would probably be better off programming a guitar vi to shred like that rather than to spend the time to play stuff that is stupidly technical. So even someone like myself who has played for a long, I would still rather use a vi than to spend the stupid amounts of time it takes to shred like that. 

The guitar is a difficult instrument to replicate because you would spend a lot of time clicking on it with a mouse to make it sound real. But there is no reason why it can't be done just like any other instrument. I have a lot of respect for people who put in the time to give us these tools to do these things. I'm grateful that I can order and entire string ensemble to play a C with a push of a finger.


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## sostenuto (Aug 27, 2017)

TheNorseman said:


> I really don't want there to be a debate about any of this. The truth about this subject is a simple as this: Guitar VI's are not as good as the real guitar. But it is a legitimate tool for anyone who is not a guitar player. That's the truth and bottom line.
> 
> Let me make a simple point here, I have been playing guitar (heavy metal) for a really long time. But I can't shred like Steve Vai. I would probably be better off programming a guitar vi to shred like that rather than to spend the time to play stuff that is stupidly technical. So even someone like myself who has played for a long, I would still rather use a vi than to spend the stupid amounts of time it takes to shred like that.
> 
> The guitar is a difficult instrument to replicate because you would spend a lot of time clicking on it with a mouse to make it sound real. But there is no reason why it can't be done just like any other instrument. I have a lot of respect for people who put in the time to give us these tools to do these things. I'm grateful that I can order and entire string ensemble to play a C with a push of a finger.



Sounds good here, BUT .... either we take the OP at his/her word OR dispute the Thread Title which specifically asks about *VST*. 
If one's position is ... 'there are no good guitar VST', then so be it. 
Otherwise, those trying to help OP by suggesting the best VSTi they know of, are at least making a positive effort. 

There are likely some Formula1 gamers who perform better than some F1 drivers (playing same game), but what's the point of FIA Super License holders beating up gamers ?? 
As a keyboardist, I can't play a lick on a guitar and respect those who play at any level. This seems to have little to do with the many who rely on VSTi to get their job done ...


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## HREQ (Aug 27, 2017)

Hello everybody! Thanks for all the replies and suggestions!

About the discussion of VI / hiring real players. Of course the players will always have more natural playing, but I prefer trying to get it with VI's, the technology is fun to play with, and I thought I bought the best guitar "Amplesound AGG" so I'm wondering if it's my amp/eq settings or the guitar samples that are holding me back, or my programming skills...


@Steinmetzify Thanks for the guitar tone advice, I tried some of your stuff

@Replicant

From my new demos, Do you think I'd benefit from vmetal or shreddag, I used AGG for the demos here but I'm not sure if I'd get better with the other VST's.
also what do you think of this guitar? I searched it up from @Rey suggestion


It sounds kind of violiny, but the rythme part is pretty good, how do you think this compares?

AGG only does one kind of palm mute, so I don't know if the little busters would be more accurate if it were using the other guitars you mentioned here? or if it all relies on the amp / EQ selection, but atleast I got close to the tone somewhat


@sostenuto 

I'll check out OTS.



I attached demos to the post here
I just decided to try to make these after reading the thread, and used some of the advice. But they still arn't up to par, and I'm not sure what's missing, I Compress > Tubescreamer > EQ (to change original guitar tone a bit if needed) > Amp > EQ again> delay / chorus >
and do that again with another but slight changes in amps/settings, then pan left/right (not true doubletracking)
I'm using SLO100 amps and Marshall amps,

Is it my Amp/EQ choices? Or is it my choice of VI Guitar Amplesound AGG newest update?

I'm going to see if prominys or impatc soundworks have demos of their VI's, and try to see if I can get a more metal backing rythme amp setup, and faster more chuggy / natural palm mutes

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/littlebusterstest-mp3.9547/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/randonguitartest-mp3.9548/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Replicant (Aug 28, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> As a keyboardist, I can't play a lick on a guitar and respect those who play at any level. This seems to have little to do with the many who rely on VSTi to get their job done ..



Never, anywhere, did I say people shouldn't use VST guitars. I've heard some great compositions with virtual guitars.

I'm simply saying that you have to understand the limitations of individual sample libraries, and using samples in general, and for the price of many VST guitars, you could have the real thing. There's is no way I could have a real string section, whenever I want, for the roughly 5-600 most string libraries cost. But this is why I seem so defensive about this: You have to be careful with this, because if you're not, you can easily buy a product that isn't capable of playing the kind of music you want with much authenticity and it's a lot of money wasted.

and if I had the option, I'd rather not us VSTs and just pass my music off to real musicians to play; but that's not practical in most scenarios.



HREQ said:


> From my new demos, Do you think I'd benefit from vmetal or shreddag, I used AGG for the demos here but I'm not sure if I'd get better with the other VST's.
> also what do you think of this guitar? I searched it up from @Rey suggestion



Those are some pretty short samples, but as I suspected from the OP, a guitar like V-Metal would be definitely a more suitable option for that style than shreddage (I own shreddage as well BTW, so it's not as if I haven't ever used guitar VSTs). I have not used Heavier7Strings, but I recently commented (as did others) in the thread announcing its release that the demos were...lackluster, so I can't recommend it in good faith.

I'm not sure of the details of your amp settings and what not, but something also seems off there.

Basically, the tried-and-true setup for rock and metal guitars for years has been this kind of signal chain.

Guitar > Noise Gate > Tube Screamer (with gain and tone settings left neutral) > Amp > 4x12 cab > Parametric Equalizer

The good news is, you can get excellent sound from everything after the guitar with just freeware plugins these days. If you download TSE 808, LePou's Legion amp sim, NadIR's impluse response loader, and GuitarHack's impulses, and you're good to go. Be sure not to scoop out the mids (rookie mistake), don't dial in much bass and _keep the gain low as possible_; attenuate some of the nasty resonances and you can get some seriously face-melting tones. Watch out for around 4k; I don't understand the physics behind it, but amp sims are notorious for having lots of annoying hiss up there.

Anyway, here's is the kind of stuff shreddage is best at and you'll find most of the product demos are geared toward it and relatively good at.



As you will notice, mostly single notes, muted or not; rhythms that are conducive to multisamples.

V-Metal is better at this kind of stuff because of the intervals and such that it samples.



As you can hear, the rhythm consists of various dyads in between the palm mutes. In this case, fourths, fifths, and major thirds, mostly.

V-Metal samples these chords; shreddage only samples perfect fifths and it is pretty much impossible to accurately replicate the strumming by simply staggering the midi.

This kind of playing is also present in most Japanese rock and pop guitar playing, as it is heavily influenced by the 80s.



P.S. V-Metal also analyzes the beats to determine whether an up or down stroke is appropriate — handy!


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## sostenuto (Aug 28, 2017)

Good to read through your post as it makes clear how diverse OP Topic is, or _can be_. 
Going back to OP initial post, then reading your last one, tells me to just 'shut up' and listen.

My perspective is so narrow as to be irrelevant .... being triggered by exposure to play by Steve Vai and Tosin Abasi .....  How's that for being off topic ??  

The good news is, their audio/video exposure got me interested and inspired to pursue guitar/bass further and that is a good thing .... 
@ gregjazz has been extraordinarily helpful as I pester incessantly about use of his OTS VSTi over past few years. 

Regards


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