# And now...for a taste of things to come...



## midphase (Jun 8, 2006)

I swear....are there good news for composers anymore? Everywhere I turn someone is trying really hard to put us out of work! Must be payback for all those sample libraries. Oh, and before you all fall over yourselves trying to say that this software won't replace serious professional composing gigs....think about the fact that the majority of working composers out there totally fall into the category of people affected by this type of product. I would venture to say that just about all of the pro guys around here have written for a music library at some point.





Sony Introduces Cinescore - Claims Software "Generates Fully Composed Music" 

Sony has announced the release of its new Cinescore automated soundtrack creation software, described by the company as "a breakthrough in professional soundtrack creation, automatically generating fully composed, multigenre, production music perfect for movies, slideshows, commercials, and radio productions." The software retails for $249.00, with an academic version available for $145.00.

According to Sony, Cinescore software includes a broad selection of musical theme packs and styles that can be customized to match the mood and musical genres of a project. Users select a theme pack based on keywords and more, and the Cinescore engine "composes" music that can be shaped based on user input and selections to fit a scene. Sony says each Cinescore theme pack can automatically generate an unlimited number of custom arrangements and variations.

Features of the software include the capability to automatically generate music to fit a specific time, 20 fully customizable theme packs in multiple genres, 16-bit, 44.1 kHz audio, user-defined settings enabling users to create unlimited musical results, "hint" markers to control changes in tempo, mood and intensity, multiple ending types, over 300 sound effects and audio transitions, video scoring track and real-time preview window, audio sweetening track, audio track markers, CD audio extraction to add in additional musical material, volume and pan curves, and more.

Music libraries may be most impacted by the release of Cinescore - Sony markets Cinescore as a way to avoid "clunky blocks of prearranged music" and "complicated licensing fees to drain your budget." In addition, the music generated by Cinescore is advertised by Sony as "royalty-free" which may give the software an advantage over music libraries who charge sync fees or usage fees for individual pieces of music. 

Filmmakers and television producers creating original music from musical building blocks including loops and pre-recorded musical elements has been happening for some time now. One of the most high-profile themes created in this way is the theme to the hit ABC show "Alias" which was created by producer J.J. Abrams entirely using "Reason" sample/loop playback software.

As filmmakers create custom music with Cinescore, it is expected that they will claim lucrative ASCAP and BMI writer and publisher performance royalties on the music they create, as they seek to enhance the financial return from films and exercise more control over the creation of score music for their films. 

Related Links:
Sony Media Software Cinescore site
http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/produc ... p?pid=1013


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 8, 2006)

This is to music what a blow-up doll - a hideous one - is to sex.


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## Alex W (Jun 8, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Jun 09 said:


> This is to music what a blow-up doll - a hideous one - is to sex.



Nicely put.

[schild=17 fontcolor=FF0000 shadowcolor=C0C0C0 shieldshadow=1]Yo Sony, stick that software and the PS3 up yo' ASS[/schild]


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jun 8, 2006)

:mrgreen:


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## midphase (Jun 8, 2006)

Nah, I think Apple Soundtrack and Sonicfire are like cheap hideous inflatable dolls....I get the feeling the Sony software is more like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gum_girl.jpg


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## midphase (Jun 8, 2006)

But I do agree....Sony sucks ass and for that they won't get my $600 for their PS3

(they will get my $300 for one in a couple of years)


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## Alex W (Jun 8, 2006)

midphase @ Fri Jun 09 said:


> Nah, I think Apple Soundtrack and Sonicfire are like cheap hideous inflatable dolls....I get the feeling the Sony software is more like this:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gum_girl.jpg



:lol: Uhh.. that frame grab looks... "familiar"...

http://www.alxproductions.com/gymworkout.mp3 ...need I say more...


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## Waywyn (Jun 9, 2006)

hm, but i think there is no reason to be worried about.
all those session packs and "music-makers" were done and used before, but sooner or later all loops and combinations are used and get boring. ... and i definitely think there is no big project who wants to use music-out-of-the-box.


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## TheoKrueger (Jun 9, 2006)

Same with Alex. No bitch ass software can replace us. 

But if it finally does... we can start writing small pre-arranged cues that can be used from within that software. New job openings :???:


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jun 9, 2006)

I'm not worried about today, just give it a couple more years...


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## Waywyn (Jun 9, 2006)

yeh good point Patrick, but imagine the following situation, there would be a robot who composes just music like a talented composer.

you could give him all kinds of data:
on 3:56 we need to start with a little bit of suspense, then on 5:00 we need action etc. etc. and he would do all of those interesting things a real composer would do.

now, after a while you would have all those robots doing music:
composer on star wars 11: x-56-tg
composer on rocky 50: c3-wq-

i think that would be pretty boring and lame :D


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jun 9, 2006)

I aggree Alex....but there's already a lot of boring and lame music writen today by human composers. 

I'm not looking forward to the time when that boring and lame music is writen by machines :wink:


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## José Herring (Jun 9, 2006)

I think people are kind of missing the point. This piece of shit is only as good as the hack composers who would spend their time writting loops for this crap.

So I say we as a community don't support it. We could kill this thing, but we must stick together.

*Are you with me?!*


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## Waywyn (Jun 9, 2006)

josejherring @ Fri Jun 09 said:


> I think people are kind of missing the point. This piece of shit is only as good as the hack composers who would spend their time writting loops for this crap.
> 
> So I say we as a community don't support it. We could kill this thing, but we must stick together.
> 
> *Are you with me?!*



Hmmmm 
yes we could kill this thing but no on the other side ... we wouldn't use it anyway 
Only those guys who think they are maestros by putting 3 or 4 stems together and say they composed music.

Another point is: Even if John Williams would have done all those snippets and stems, it would be still boring after a few months, because you would hear it everywhere - but, done with all the mistakes wannabe-musicians or programmers would do.


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## midphase (Jun 9, 2006)

I find it amazing how all you guys seem to think about is movies. Yet from a commercial career point of view, movies amount for a very small percentage of what pro composers do! If you were to poll the pro composers around here, they will tell you that the majority of their income comes from TV, advertising, trailers, corporate etc. In these categories the software could totally take work away from us.

Anyone agree? 

I know some music supervisors at FOX for example who would not think twice about using this if it was easy and feasible enough. Same with ESPN, Discovery Channel and possibly even Sci/Fi Channel for some of their on air promos.


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## gamalataki (Jun 9, 2006)

Sure these may used this for a spot here and there, probably more in local markets, but these types of software are targeted towards non musical picture editors, so they can experiment with basic moods. Worry when/if they license cues from A list composers.


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## José Herring (Jun 9, 2006)

You seem to forget that people are already doing this. They're already using prefab music in a lot of markets and the libraries also will send alternate mixes with varying lengths.

I agree that for promo spots and ads and things of that nature this thing may be used. But there's already tons of music libraries that offer the same things for those kinds of works. I suspect that it happens in gaming as well.

So it boils down to the fact that we gotta get better. The only musicians really put out of work by samples where the so so players. The guys that rock still work a lot. So we may be faced with the same thing. We sharpen our skills and get rid of the b.s. in our work and get down to really composing great stuff. Ultimately in comes down to quality of product not just money. If it where just about money then nobody would want Johns, or Hans, or James'. They would hire music students and pay them a nickle. But music students don't get work. Why? The quality of product is too low. Same with this thing.

If somebody want's to stay at home and fool with this thing to score their wedding videos then okay. But, I have a hard time believing that a thing like this is going to replace a Nick Phoenix in the trailer market. At best somebody may use it as a temp track, which is already happening and has been happening for the last 50 years. Sure the technology is different. But, Henry Mancini started his career essential doing the same thing for b films. Taking other peoples tracks and remixing and rerecording and arranging them for new films.

Truth of the matter is that no creative person has ever lost work to technology. Plenty of non creative people have, but not us. We have the power to change the future. We create. If we don't like where it's going we change it. Come up with something better. That's what we do. No machine can do that. It can only spit out what we put into it.

Jose


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## midphase (Jun 9, 2006)

Although I find your statements (Jose) based on assumptions, I do have to agree that the Sony demo music sucks....and this type of application works well mostly with electronica type of music where there is a very strict rhythmic pulse which facilitates the looping that goes into making this thing work.

I seriously doubt that the software can come up with the stuff that members around here post on a regular basis.


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## kid-surf (Jun 9, 2006)

I hear you Kays. But! ..... But it's so cheap to get real music now a days. Most people like "custom", and custom is pretty cheap now days, it's a buyers market. Wouldn't you say? It's just that I seriously doubt that this sort of thing replaces many folks other than the stuff that mainly is asking for free music now anyway.

20 years from now? Yeah it may get way scary at that point. But I think we're safe for a good 5-10 years, realistically. Yet, that means you gotta be sure to be a top dog by that time, or who knows? Ya know?  


But we could also say that machines may eventually be able to write scripts too. You know, feed in the best scripts/books in the world, analyze them, and them come up with variation on the biggest money makers...... you know, with a tonality of "so and so" world class writer. Then my wife is out of a job, studios can manufacture their own scripts.

Actors are next on the list... CGI will finish them off soon enough. 

I just don't believe that we like art simply due to it being good, I believe we like art (good/great art) because we know that someone busted ass to make it. We enjoy the art itself, but we also enjoy the thought of "how the hell did they come up with that.... they are amazing!"


We'll always need people to look up to. 

So I still say .... thanks god we are "people" , we'll always have that over computers...... 



"we hope". :mrgreen:


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## Waywyn (Jun 9, 2006)

midphase @ Fri Jun 09 said:


> I find it amazing how all you guys seem to think about is movies. Yet from a commercial career point of view, movies amount for a very small percentage of what pro composers do! If you were to poll the pro composers around here, they will tell you that the majority of their income comes from TV, advertising, trailers, corporate etc. In these categories the software could totally take work away from us.
> 
> Anyone agree?



as for me i just took movies as THE examples. of course i mean also all the categories you mentioned. okay, i just did one (not hobby) movie but my main money also derives from games and licence music.
but as far as i can say, even if there are a few guys who wouldn't think twice to let "software" produce their music, there are also a lot of people and developers who wouldn't and also a lot of companies who are proud to present real orchestra for their games. ... and besides that, real orchestra or at least real instruments in licence music.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jun 9, 2006)

kid-surf @ Fri Jun 09 said:


> Most people like "custom", and custom is pretty cheap now days, it's a buyers market. Wouldn't you say? It's just that I seriously doubt that this sort of thing replaces many folks other than the stuff that mainly is asking for free music now anyway.
> 
> 20 years from now? Yeah it may get way scary at that point. But I think we're safe for a good 5-10 years, realistically.



I disagree. Most people couldn't care less whether it's custom or not, whether the composer had a real hard time coming up with a piece or not...etc
This stuff has already replaced people on many occasions. As Kay mentionned, most of us composers make most of our income on TV commercials, documentaries, radio spots, games...etc
It just makes sense that a trend that started in the 80's with drum machines putting drummers out of work in some situations will eventually affect us composers (it's happening now) Of course there will always be a need for tailor made music. What I am concerned about is reduction of work opportunities, that's all...

20 years?! I'm afraid you won't have that much time. Make it 5...


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## midphase (Jun 9, 2006)

Well....even if for the working guys it might not be looking ugly quite yet....I would sure hate to be a graduate newbee nowadays. There is so much more competition from people and software than there was back when I first got into the game.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jun 9, 2006)

Now, if you extend this possible future acroos the board, what you get is a global corporate power that has put the human race out of work, except for their upper echelon members. Little by little, more jobs are lost to computer run systems and the unbelievably weathly upper class lives in bunkers, away from possible retribution...

Sounds familiar? :wink:


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## midphase (Jun 9, 2006)

It's all pretty sad really!


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## kid-surf (Jun 9, 2006)

I hear you guys... and yeah, it's a little strange and scary.

But...


*"I disagree. Most people couldn't care less whether it's custom or not, whether the composer had a real hard time coming up with a piece or not...etc" *


I guess it depends on whether we're talking about low end or...


I think for any sort of quick bumper, yeah I think this sort of thing will maybe take over that market. But I don't see it have a very significant impact on film and those entities that need a more realized piece of music.

Otherwise, i agree 110%, no one cares how hard you work on something, only if it's "good". My wife is a film agent and her point of view is "I don't care how hard they worked on it, is it good or not". I'd say that idea is pretty industry standard. 


So I'm definitely not trying to insinuate that hard work is reworded... only hard work that's good. In other words, I don't think a computer could score a film the way Thomas Newman can.


5 years? I don't believe so.... 20 years ago drummers were scared they'd be put outta work. The same people who weren't hiring them then are the same people that are using drum machines now. I think that's generally how this manufactured music is gonna play out. The same people who want your music for free now are gonna be the same people buying these software packages in the future. IMO.....


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## midphase (Jun 9, 2006)

> 5 years? I don't believe so.... 20 years ago drummers were scared they'd be put outta work. The same people who weren't hiring them then are the same people that are using drum machines now.



I think that's your youth talking! Session musicians by and large have lost a huge chunk of their studio work (that's why most of them teach). Are there still drummers being hired for sessions? Of course! But not nearly as there were 20 years ago!


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## Alex W (Jun 9, 2006)

Hang on, from what I can tell, it's just like a glorified version of Acid.

The website claims that there's 20 themes which can be assigned to a whole bunch of different styles and genres. This is possible because it's MIDI based.

So it's not like this program is actually *composing* anything, all it's doing is arranging a whole bunch of preset loops.

I'd say It wouldn't be long before you're hearing the same thing twice in different "compositions"...


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## midphase (Jun 9, 2006)

Yeah, it's very similar to what that Sonicfire program does. You essentially have loops of compositions broken down into instrument stems which can be arranged in various ways. Coupled with a decent time compressor/expander to match tempos and and metadata to match keys and styles.


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## Waywyn (Jun 9, 2006)

*lol*

actually the funny thing which comes to my mind is, that sony is doing one of the best plugins out there and now they created a program to kinda stop people buying their professional stuff 

well what can we do? answer is simple:
just create and compose such powerful, talented, emotional and impressive music that every producer, developer or directory doesn't even think of replacing YOU!


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