# At what volume should I set Kontakt, the sound card and the monitors ???



## darkneo57 (Nov 27, 2020)

hi,

I am a beginner in computer music, the sound libraries I use have different volumes for the same velocity (pianos), I also have strings and brass and I'm making my first real template.

In Kontak I have set the volumes in relation to the sound clipping with a midi file with high velocities, so if I want to have an equal volume for the instruments, I have to compensate by lowering the volume of the loudest libraries and raising the volume of the sound card. I'm a professional musician, so I'm very careful with my ears, I don't want that by having to raise the volume of the sound card to equalize the volume, that an error creates a too loud sound. Currently the volume of my sound card (MOTU M4) is 50%, the volume of my monitors 50% too ( yamaha HS7 ), I'm on cubase 11, faders at 0. I think I should turn up the sound card volume up to 65%.

Is this setting common? Could you give me some information on how to set up the volume in your music studio?

Thank you, have a nice day

Sorry for my English, I am French.


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## labornvain (Nov 27, 2020)

Since you're setting up a template, you should go ahead and GAIN STAGE your tracks. 

The easiest way to do this is load an instrument into an instance of Kontakt.

Set the fader of that track to 0db.

Play the instrument at it's loudest that you will ever use.

Check the meters on the track in your DAW.

Using Kontakt's Master Volume, adjust it so that the levels average at about -12db with the peak around -6db. 






If the Master Volume isn't visible, click the highlighted button (top right) and turn it on.

NOTE: Some people prefer an average level of around -18db. I use a lot of analog modelled plugins and I've found they generally like a little hotter signal. It doesn't really matter.


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## darkneo57 (Nov 28, 2020)

Hi, 

thank you very much for your response.
I'm sorry, I have several questions regarding your answer.

Before posting this thread, I had set my DAW faders to 0, I played each virtual instrument with the highest velocity I was using until there was no more clipping (red line in kontakt ) I put -0.5db as a precaution. On the other hand I didn't use the same volume of kontalt as you (see attached picture), does it change anything ? if yes, why ?







Also, when there was clipping on the signal in kontakt (red line), I also had clipping in my DAW which exceeded 0. Moreover, as some of my instruments have completely different basic volumes in the "higher velocities", e.g. piano & strings, when I set the kontakt levels correctly, some of the instruments have a volume that is too low compared to the others, I have no choice but to turn down the volume of my sound card. ( You didn't mention this )



> I have to compensate by lowering the volume of the loudest libraries and raising the volume of the sound card. I'm a professional musician, so I'm very careful with my ears, I don't want that by having to raise the volume of the sound card to equalize the volume, that an error creates a too loud sound. Currently the volume of my sound card (MOTU M4) is 50%, the volume of my monitors 50% too ( yamaha HS7 ), I'm on cubase 11, faders at 0. I think I should turn up the sound card volume up to 65%.




I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstood your explanations. In any case thank you very much.

have a nice weekend


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## labornvain (Nov 28, 2020)

I should have inquired before responding whether you're using Kontakt in multi-mode (with multiple instruments loaded into a single instance of Kontakt), or whether you use only one instrument per instance of Kontakt. My method is only applicable to the latter. For multiple reasons, I never load more than one instrument in Kontakt.

If it is the former, then you can't use Kontakt's master Volume to gain stage since it will affect the volume of multiple instruments at once, of course.

*Either way, you should avoid using the instrument volume slider which you posted an image of.

The instrument volume slider is saved as an instrument setting and has almost always been set to an optimal level by the library creator. If you've altered this setting and saved it in your template, you need to reload the instrument(s) and restore it/them to the manufaturer's default state.

If you feel you need to run Kontakt with multiple instruments loaded, the you need to use either your DAW's built in channel gain feature or insert a GAIN PLUGIN in the first effect insert slot on each channel and use that.

___________________________________

The reason I didn't mention the volume of your interface is because it has nothing to do with gain staging. Gain staging is all about setting proper levels along the signal path within your DAW. Your interface is a separate thing.


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## darkneo57 (Nov 29, 2020)

hi,

thanks for yourresponse and for your patiente, i'm a beginner.

I'm using only one instrument per instance of Kontakt.



> The instrument volume slider is saved as an instrument setting and has almost always been set to an optimal level by the library creator.



This applies to all sound libraries ? strings, brass, piano, omnisphere ?

i'm going to reload the instruments and restore them to the manufaturer's default state and i will Use Kontakt's Master Volume, adjust it so that the levels average at about -12db with the peak around -6db. 

if i'm not mistaken, the instrument volume slider is CC7, right ?



> The reason I didn't mention the volume of your interface is because it has nothing to do with gain staging. Gain staging is all about setting proper levels along the signal path within your DAW. Your interface is a separate thing.



Now I understand that gain stagging and audio interface volume are two different things.

So, once I've correctly done the gain stagging, how do I equalize the volume of the different instruments (one instrument per instance), because some are louder than others even after the gain stagging is done. With the pre-gain ? with faders ??

I guess I will still have to turn down the loudest instruments and turn up the sound card.

Could you please tell me how to adjust the volume of the sound card and the monitors?

How can I avoid that an error creates a too loud sound e.g. loopback function or new virtual instrument with wrong settings?

thank you very much, sincerely

have a nice weekend


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## labornvain (Nov 29, 2020)

What brand and model of interface are you using?

What equipment are you using to connect your interface to your speakers?


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## darkneo57 (Nov 29, 2020)

hi

thanks for your response, my audio interface is MOTU m4, my monitors are Yamaha HS7, i use "jack cable", I'm not sure of the name in English so I left a picture.






thanks


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## antames (Nov 29, 2020)

Hi, I wouldn't overcomplicate it too much. Turn down the loudest instrument(s) or library so that it's level with everything else.

Slap a limiter on the master channel and increase the gain until you can actually hear what's going on again at your normal speaker levels.

Just remember to disable the limiter once you've completed your arrangement and mix before mastering.


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## tomosane (Nov 30, 2020)

It's good to remember that with modern DAWs, you usually don't really have to worry about clipping inside Kontakt -- if your sample goes above 0db, you can just lower the audio track's volume, or even just the master track's volume. Here's a good video explanation of the phenomenon:


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## darkneo57 (Nov 30, 2020)

thank you for your answers, 

if I understood correctly, putting the limiter on the master, allows to block a too loud sound that would be inadvertently emitted by a wrong setting, right ?

I've seen a lot of youtube videos, where people recommend not to exceed -18 dbfs, others -12dbfs, so now I don't really know what to think.

How much volume in percent do you set your audio interfaces and monitors to?

Thank you all


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## wst3 (Nov 30, 2020)

OK, this is actually a very important, and somewhat misunderstood topic. If there is interest I can write up a procedure to "align" your studio. I can even explain the whole VU vs dBu vs dBV vs dBFS mess.

Let me know if there is interest...


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## darkneo57 (Nov 30, 2020)

hi,

yes I'm very interested to know how to configure the different volumes of a studio, be it gain stagging (Kontakt, DAW, pre gain), audio interface and monitors, and this if possible while protecting against very loud sounds that can be produced by mistake, (e.g. new librarie badly set up, loopback) I need this information to be operational.

That would be very nice of you, thank you very much.


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## THW (Nov 30, 2020)

wst3 said:


> OK, this is actually a very important, and somewhat misunderstood topic. If there is interest I can write up a procedure to "align" your studio. I can even explain the whole VU vs dBu vs dBV vs dBFS mess.
> 
> Let me know if there is interest...


Also very interested in the topic and any guidance!


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## Kent (Dec 1, 2020)

@darkneo57 I think a lot about this but currently do not have internet on my computer. Ping me in a day or two and I’ll be sure to elaborate.


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## darkneo57 (Dec 1, 2020)

Hi, 

thank you for your kindness, we count on your advice and procedures.

Have a nice evening


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## Kent (Dec 3, 2020)

Hi,

As this is a bit of a complex topic and I'm sure other people work in different ways and have different opinions, take everything I'm about to say with a grain of salt.

For me, the most important thing about a DAW template is dependable consistency. In other words, at the most basic level, I need to be able to trust that...
A: what I am hearing is what is actually there;
B: when I move a control, it responds how I think it should respond.

This means that each step of the process must be scrutinized, set, and tweaked _before I put on my creative hat_. The last thing I want to do when composing is route MIDI/audio or define key switches or set volume levels or any of that. I don't want to have to remember that library A is drier and louder than library B so I need to add reverb to A and volume to B to make them match better. I don't want to have to remember that library X controls dynamics via CC1 but library Y controls dynamics via CC11. I just want to write, play it in, and be done with it.

*SETTING UP THE HARDWARE*

So, I start by setting up my hardware—monitors/headphones, audio interface, room treatment, etc. Without this first step, I cannot trust _anything_ else I hear. It's like making sure I'm wearing the correct prescription of glasses and not generic dark sunglasses before I try to paint a colorful picture.

So the first thing to do is make sure the physical space is exactly as it should be. There are many guides online for this; PreSonus has a handy one:









Studio Monitor Placement | PreSonus







www.presonus.com





And here is another guide, a bit more in-depth:









Room Setup 101: Speaker Placement Secrets


How to choose a listening position and place your speakers for pristine, truthful listening (in stereo or surround). Room and speaker layout tutorial for recording studio control rooms, home theaters & hi-fi listening rooms.



arqen.com





The only thing I'd change about what they say in the PreSonus guide is that the equilateral triangle should form a point about 14-16 inches _behind_ your head (which is what that second guide also says), not in the center of your head. Think about it this way: when the point is behind your head, your ears will perfectly line up with the "sides" of the triangle, and therefore be able to better have a sense of what is Left and what is Right; this is not possible if the point is somewhere in your hypothalamus!

Once you've set up your physical space, you will want acoustic treatment (and potentially room EQ). Why? Because music is something that happens in the frequency domain and the time domain. Acoustic treatment primarily treats the latter, and room EQ (like Sonarworks) primarily treats the former. This can make a HUGE difference. See:









Acoustically Treated vs Non-treated Room - GIK Acoustics


The following are audio recordings illustrating the difference in a room treated with GIK Acoustics products vs. the same room untreated.




www.gikacoustics.com





If you had to choose one thing of the two, choose acoustic treatment. GIK Acoustics (linked just above) actually has a whole educational series of articles on the subject:









Room Acoustics Primer - GIK Acoustics


For those who are new to room acoustics,our acoustic primer will help get you started. Article on acoustic panels, bass traps, diffusors and room setup.




www.gikacoustics.com





The important thing to note here is that it is a very scientific thing, and not something that can be achieved accidentally or with non-specialized materials. It's not very sexy, but it's perhaps the most important money you can spend—certainly more so than on new libraries!

Once your time domain is sorted out, you might want to consider room EQ a la Sonarworks:









SoundID Reference - Speaker & Headphone Calibration


Create with full confidence in sound with speaker & headphone calibration software SoundID Reference. Already trusted by over 100'000 studios globally.




www.sonarworks.com





This helps smooth things out a bit more, but is definitely more of an optional step that the acoustic treatment step.

Next thing is to calibrate your system. Again, PreSonus has a handy guide:









How Do I Calibrate My Studio Monitors? | PreSonus







www.presonus.com





And this is another one I _highly_ recommend to people:









K-System? Try the T-System! - Gearspace.com


News, Dec 2015: The entire tutorial is now available as a downloadable PDF, attached to the bottom of this post. +++ The name is just a play on Bob Kat



www.gearslutz.com





Hearing damage starts around 90 dB, so 85 dB is usually the maximum recommended level. This is a good level for a cinema room, but if you're working in a smaller area like a spare bedroom (/using near-fields and/or headphones), the closeness of the walls (or ear cups) will make the apparent volume level louder, so to compensate the volume of your system must be lowered by a few dB (probably to the high-70s). 

As mentioned in that latter link, THIS is your base, your home. You can venture louder or softer when you want to see how things sound there, but always return to this volume level. This is how you can learn to trust your system and your ears to know that you are hearing what you are hearing. Listening to recordings you know very well can help you learn your space/system at this calibrated level.

*SETTING UP THE SOFTWARE*

Here is where things get a little more opinionated, so again, salt!

It's best to set things up granularly from smallest to largest: articulation, instrument, instrument family, DAW template. In practice this is a bit more complex; every developer is different and might have things coded differently (even per instrument—it's astounding how inconsistent these things can be!), so it's important to know what is going on in each and every instrument. However, in general, in MIDI-land, value 90 is Unity. In Kontakt, CC7 (MIDI Volume) controls the main volume slider. For a given instrument, I like to set my basic 'long' articulation to this value. Because most libraries normalize their samples (so that everything has the same max amplitude), this can create scenarios in which, say, forte pizzicato is as loud as a fortissimo molto vibrato sustain. If the sustain is set to CC7 = 90, then I might set the pizzicato to CC7 = 56, so that it is dynamically appropriate to what it would behave like in real life. (This is a whole topic in and of itself...)

Once you've set the articulations for each instrument in the relative volumes you want, then balance the instruments' relative levels, first within families and then across the ensemble. For example: a flute in its low register is not going to be as loud as a trumpet in its high register, even if both are marked "forte." Here, I usually set these values with a gain plug-in so that my faders can remain at Unity. Here is also where (going back to our example) I add reverb to A and volume to B to make them match better.

Finally, I do mock-ups (with a score!) of ~30s segments of pieces I know well, in a variety of different styles and orchestrations, and see if the balancing worked. There is likely stuff to tweak (and honestly a template never crystallizes; it continues to evolve as needed).

Here is also where I normalize the way I control the instruments; going back to our example, I set a MIDI transformer so that even though library X controls dynamics via CC1 but library Y controls dynamics via CC11, I make CC1 control CC11 for library Y in the back end so that while each library "sees" what it wants to, I only have to learn/remember/master one control paradigm.

---

Hope this helps some! It's a bit broader than the question you asked, but I really don't know a way to answer without touching on all of this, since it's all interrelated.


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## darkneo57 (Dec 4, 2020)

Hi Kmaster,

I would like to thank you very much for your kindness, the time you gave, and the quality and clarity of the information you provided. It's a real pleasure. Respect! I wish you the best for your career.

I am French, so although my English level has improved significantly and the quality of the current online translators has improved, I think I will have a few questions coming up.

Thank you for everything, sincerely


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## darkneo57 (Dec 5, 2020)

hi,

for the step calibrate your system by setting the volume of the audio interface to unity gain and with the pink noise in the DAW, I wonder a lot. Indeed, I contacted the support service of my sound card motu M4 because there was no symbol for unity gain, they answered me that it was the max.

When I made the tests with my sound card at the max, I reach 80 Db on my monitors whereas they are at less than 5% of their maximum value. ( yamaha HS 7 ) Personally, and especially being very careful with my ears, it worries me a lot, I think I prefer to leave the volumes of my sound card and my monitors at 50%.

What should I do ?

Thanks


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## Kent (Dec 6, 2020)

Are you following the PreSonus guide or the T-System?


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## darkneo57 (Dec 6, 2020)

presonus, i put pink noise 0db


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## Kent (Dec 6, 2020)

Try the T-system, since it it a bit more in-depth.


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## Kent (Dec 7, 2020)

Any luck @darkneo57?


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## darkneo57 (Dec 8, 2020)

Hi, sorry I don't understand the term "any luck", in any case the K-system and T-system are a bit complicated for me due to my level of knowledge and English and also I encountered this problem as I told you.



> When I made the tests with my sound card at the max, I reach 80 Db on my monitors whereas they are at less than 5% of their maximum value. ( yamaha HS 7 ) Personally, and especially being very careful with my ears, it worries me a lot, I think I prefer to leave the volumes of my sound card and my monitors at 50%.



also I posted the following thread about a brickwall limiter on the master bus :

https://vi-control.net/community/th...nexpected-loud-noise-request-for-help.102558/

thanks for all

nice picture kmaster


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## Kent (Dec 8, 2020)

The K-system is pretty complex—I’d avoid it.

The T-system is very simple and step-by-step. Which part is confusing?

“any luck?” is a colloquial shortening of “have you had any luck in this endeavor?” or similar questions.


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## darkneo57 (Dec 10, 2020)

thank you for the little English lesson.

My problem :



> When I made the tests with my sound card at the max, I reach 80 Db on my monitors whereas they are at less than 5% of their maximum value. ( yamaha HS 7 ) Personally, and especially being very careful with my ears, it worries me a lot, I think I prefer to leave the volumes of my sound card and my monitors at 50%.


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## Kent (Dec 10, 2020)

darkneo57 said:


> My problem :


Apologies for being unclear—I meant: which part of the T-System setup guide is confusing?


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## darkneo57 (Dec 10, 2020)

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to understand my problem, which I've mentioned three times already.

1c. Perform the speaker calibration. 

When I do that with my sound card at the max, I reach 80 Db on my monitors whereas they are at less than 5% of their maximum value. ( yamaha HS 7 ) Personally, and especially being very careful with my ears, it worries me a lot, I think I prefer to leave the volumes of my sound card and my monitors at 50%. 

I'm sorry, I can't be any clearer than that. Thank you for your help, if you can't help me, it's okay.


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## Kent (Dec 10, 2020)

darkneo57 said:


> I'm sorry, but you don't seem to understand my problem, which I've mentioned three times already.
> 
> 1c. Perform the speaker calibration.
> 
> ...


I am confused...you said you were using the PreSonus guide as the T-System was 'a bit complicated', so I asked which part was complicated for you. This...

`When I do that with my sound card at the max, I reach 80 Db on my monitors whereas they are at less than 5% of their maximum value. ( yamaha HS 7 ) Personally, and especially being very careful with my ears, it worries me a lot, I think I prefer to leave the volumes of my sound card and my monitors at 50%.`

...is your issue with the PreSonus guide, which is not what I am asking about.

Does that make sense?

Edit: I am an idiot! For whatever reason, what you were saying was not clicking with me.

Hold on...


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## Kent (Dec 10, 2020)

*TL;DR

Don't worry if you find that level of noise uncomfortable. You will never be listening to your system like that; this whole step (1) is for calibrating your speakers! Continue with the process and see what you find.*

---

Answering this question is a little confusing because there are a number of technical terms which all look somewhat similar but mean slightly different things. Consider, for example, the conversation in this current thread:






Highly tech engineering questions about mixing loudness


Hello Fellas and Fella-ettes, Warning this is highly technical and for many over-thought, but I do this, I go into great detail until I fully understand. This is a sound engineering post. In order to understand how to professionally balance my template, I have concluded that I must understand...




vi-control.net






Coming back to your questions:

On page 6 of the HS7 manual, it shows how to change the output level for the monitor:




Right away, I see how this can be confusing. How is -10dB a louder volume than +4dB?

`A brief and simplistic history lesson (skimming over most of the details and the math, since it's not really important to understanding what to do in the next steps):
In the days of analog, professional audio gear was often designed to output +4dBu; consumer/hi-fi audio gear, on the other hand, was often designed to output -10dBV. dBu and dBV are different scales of measurement, but basically the levels equate to +4dBu (colloquially, '+4dB' or 'line level') is slightly under 12 decibels louder than -10dBV (colloquially, -10dB).`

The Yamahas, for whatever reason, have decided to label their output knob with these levels—I guess as a throwback to their lineage as a hi-fi speaker set?—instead of something more intuitive like natural numbers. In any case, the weaker the input signal, the more you have to boost the gain. For old-school consumer gear, you'd have to boost it all the way up (to the -10dB spot); for pro gear, you'd have to boost it about 12 dB less to reach the same output level (and the 12 o'clock position is calibrated for this).

How much are you outputting?

On page 26 of the M4 manual, it says that the max output of the Line Out (which I am assuming you're using instead of the RCA out?) is +16dBu. 






So, it makes sense that you're barely moving the Level knob on the HS7s away from 'min': +16dBu is about as louder than +4dBu as +4dBu is louder than -10dBV!

The correct thing to do would be to get a monitor controller, as @AudioLoco mentioned in your other recent thread:






Brickwall limiter on the master bus for ear protection against unexpected loud noise ( request for help )


Hi, being very careful with my ears and being a computer music beginner I will need your help with the brickwall limiter. Could you please confirm that putting a brickwall limiter in insert on the master bus (e.g. the one in cubase) will block all sound above the defined threshold and thus...




vi-control.net





Barring that, let's come back to 1c. of the T-System guide:

*



1c. Perform the speaker calibration.

Click to expand...

*


> Set your SPL meter to Slow response + dBC weighting. If your meter can only do dBA (A-weighting) then that will be okay too, since this bandpassed noise has taken out the bass/treble which would have caused a big difference between the two weighting types.
> 
> Now place the iPhone (or physical SPL meter) so that its microphone "tip" is at the normal listening sweetspot at _ear_ level, _and_ aim its microphone at the ceiling. Regardless of what type of SPL meter you're using (iPhone or otherwise), you must always aim at the ceiling to ensure that it doesn't accidentally point more towards any particular speaker. Try to lock the device in place (using a music stand, or someone else to hold it for you), which will simplify things.
> 
> ...



Note this paragraph:

_...Different speakers will have different innate sound pressure levels for any given voltage, so yours might be really effective (loud), or really quiet, and the range on the speaker's trim pot might not be enough for that calibration. In that case, you can aim lower/higher. The point is just to pick a reference level on *one* of the speakers._

So your monitors are really effective. This does not invalidate the process, it's more like a fun fact 

Immediately after *1c.* is *Step 2*:



> *Step 2: Establishing your personal "reference volume" for working on music.*
> 
> The "reference volume" is any volume that feels comfortable to you, and which you can imagine yourself working at day in and day out as your "optimal reference point" while mixing.



In other words, the whole point of "Step 1" is to calibrate your monitor levels. In "Step 2" you calibrate your listening levels. Step 1 is defining a headroom ceiling (which definitely should be somewhat uncomfortably loud), Step 2 is defining a day-to-day norm.

Hope that makes sense!


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## darkneo57 (Dec 11, 2020)

thank you very much, 

I will take the time to read and translate well and I will see.
thank you for looking at the manuals of my devices, you are really a nice person, I wish you the best.

Have a good weekend


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