# MIR is released by VSL



## ozmorphasis (Jul 22, 2009)

FYI, MIR has been released:

http://vsl.co.at/en/211/497/1687/455/1287.htm


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## germancomponist (Jul 22, 2009)

So one has not to think about all the reverbsettings / er-panning a.s.o. .

A great luxus!


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## Hal (Jul 22, 2009)

a lot of bad things

first it sounds GREAT

but the PC requirement is just crazy (o) !!!!!
PC Dual Intel Quad Core XEON 5520 or better, with Vista/Windows 7 64-bit
24 GB RAM
thats even stronger then my DAW !?
and it should be run on the same machine where u have ur vienna instrument !? why complicating things ? 

it runs exclusively with vienna instrument which is a very bad thing considering the very high price.


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## Pietro (Jul 22, 2009)

I love the idea. 

I'm not convinced with how it sounds, though. Anyone else having an impression, there's a lot of phase cancellation on the demos? Or maybe it's not this, but something different I cannot properly describe?

- Piotr


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## RiffWraith (Jul 22, 2009)

Pietro @ Thu Jul 23 said:


> I love the idea.
> 
> I'm not convinced with how it sounds, though. Anyone else having an impression, there's a lot of phase cancellation on the demos? Or maybe it's not this, but something different I cannot properly describe?
> 
> - Piotr



I listened to the demos, and I definitley hear what you hear. It's not real phase cancellation, but it almost sounds like there is some of that going on. It's like some of the instruments (specifically the cymbal crescendos on the right in "W.Why" and the tympanis in "Zar") aren't sitting in the right place; I think what MIR is attempting to do here is add depth (one thing that is definitely lacking in mock-ups), but I thnk what they suceeded in doing is screwing up the imaging. Of course, it's hard to tell that for sure without hearing the dry version, but that is what it sounds like.

And I agree - those requirements are definitely nutso. But it is what it is, and I think VSL knows that they probably won't sell that many off the bat, but are hoping that down the road (years) when alot more people start to upgrade to 64-bit, that's when this will really take off. Just my opinion there.

Anyone else hear that this doesn't sound quite right?


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## Hal (Jul 22, 2009)

well call me crazy but i liked the stereo video more then the 5.1 !
the 5.1 version is difinetly bigger and wider but somthing's wrong.


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## tripit (Jul 22, 2009)

I too, love the idea. The CPU requirements are pretty high, but that would be expected for something of this undertaking. 

I would like to hear a lot more demo's. Specifically, ones that are more wet, to get a better sense of what it can really do. 

Also, the fact that you can only use it with VSL, and at that, you have to use it in the same machine, presents an issue for me. You would have to run the entire orch on one machine, which means you wouldn't have as much resources in terms of load, voices etc. 

I think once they've had a chance to develop it more, get a version out that can handle multi libraries etc, I will be more interested.

P.S> The image in the demo isn't sitting right with me either.


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## artinro (Jul 22, 2009)

Pietro @ Wed Jul 22 said:


> I love the idea.
> 
> I'm not convinced with how it sounds, though. Anyone else having an impression, there's a lot of phase cancellation on the demos? Or maybe it's not this, but something different I cannot properly describe?
> 
> - Piotr



Folks,
I have been beta testing MIR for the past month or so. I assure you the sound is nothing short of miraculous. I think more demos will help people to hear how great MIR sounds. 

I used to use a whole bunch of reverb techniques for my VSL stuff (altiverb, bricasti m7, etc...). Nothing comes close to MIR for VSL instruments...not even close. I also think VSL plans on offering a trial period. When they sort that out, I highly recommend you check that out. I know I will not be using anything but MIR for Vienna Instruments from now on. 

Regarding system requirements, they are only recommendation by VSL to make sure you can run an absolutely monster arrangement. My beta testing setup included two computers to test MIR. One of the systems was a monster Dual Intel Quad Core XEON and it is nearly impossible to stress MIR with this system. 

The other system is a last generation Mac Pro running Windows 7 RC in bootcamp. I was able to get very reasonable performance with a decent size ensemble with this setup. So, VSL are just making sure they explain what will give absolute optimum performance, but one can certainly get by quite nicely with older hardware. 

Lastly, a version that is able to work with other libraries is under development. I think they're going to call it MIR PRO.

I hope this helps out!

Cheers!


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## PolarBear (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm impressed by the depth it creates. Nothing heard in most actual mockups so far and for sure in good movie scores.


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## Reegs (Jul 22, 2009)

Whoa... There's definitely some depth there I wasn't expecting. Congrats to the VSL team. 

The mix is also HOT as HELL!!

In W.Why, the bass presence and roundness is gorgeous, and I'm listening on crappy street headphones.

I think the Strauss is still missing something when the whole orchestra comes in, but I'm having trouble translating it into words.


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## ozmorphasis (Jul 22, 2009)

There is still something that I don't understand in terms of workflow for a professional. All the info seems to say that Mir can only output a mixed stereo or a surround output in 5.1 or 7.1. Since it's a more or less an all inclusive mixing solution, how does this jive with the typical need to deliver stems? 

Maybe Dietz will chime in soon to clarify.


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## PolarBear (Jul 22, 2009)

ozmorphasis @ Thu Jul 23 said:


> There is still something that I don't understand in terms of workflow for a professional. All the info seems to say that Mir can only output a mixed stereo or a surround output in 5.1 or 7.1. Since it's a more or less an all inclusive mixing solution, how does this jive with the typical need to deliver stems?
> 
> Maybe Dietz will chime in soon to clarify.



Errm... you have a solo and a mute knob for that in your sequencer? But yes, having it in one go might be more convenient, but as far as I understood it the rendering won't be realtime anyway sometime soon.


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## Mahlon (Jul 22, 2009)

While the cost of a system to run MIR on might be prohibitive (or a stretch) for me at this point, I can definitely see the day where I put all my VEs on one machine, rather than 3, and it seems this one would be it. Perhaps they are future-shooting for a customer like this?

Mahlon


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## artinro (Jul 23, 2009)

Guys, just want to chime in here. I'm sure Dietz will jump in to answer some questions soon enough.



PolarBear @ Wed Jul 22 said:


> ....as I understood it the rendering won't be realtime anyway sometime soon.




Rendering for MIR is indeed realtime. I know this is something VSL were working on for quite some time and is the reason MIR has taken a while to be released. With a good machine, a full orchestra piece can easily be played back in full realtime. As a beta tester I can attest. In fact, on my testing machine, I'm running at a 256 sample buffer and I've had no problems running huge orchestra works in realtime without a hitch.



kdm @ Wed Jul 22 said:


> RiffWraith @ Wed Jul 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Pietro @ Thu Jul 23 said:
> ...



It's important to note here that these video demos were made with a pre-alpha version of MIR. I hear what you're saying about these demos and I can tell you (again from personal experience) that MIR in its current state sounds incredible...far better than any other option I've tried for Vienna Instruments....and I've tried them all. I'm sure newer demos will be released shortly which I hope will illustrate this.

All the best!


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## PolarBear (Jul 23, 2009)

Ok, so it could be done in realtime. What happened to the preview mode then? Is that still availible or is it only rendering in realtime then and no possibility for offline bouncing the full mix?


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## Sean Beeson (Jul 23, 2009)

Regardless of price and specs, I would love to at least try it  Here's hoping that it is awesome!


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## chimuelo (Jul 24, 2009)

This is a great advancement IMHO for composers who need a semi mastered quality mock up quickly.
While many of us here probably have been creating space and depth in our mixes using AUX placements, that is a stereo mixing option, and I am having extreme difficulty creating and using space in 5.1 mixes, and I have some excellent tools from JL Cooper and Soniccore.
If MIR could allow me to dump 2" 2 track masters into it and then slighty tweak I could still keep my ancient Otari and continue mixing as I have for years, and let MIR do the 5.1 for me.
It's going to hard demoing this, and judging it's ability by demoing mp3/mp4's is pointless IMO.
A 32GB PC for a reasonable price will be available in quarter 1 2010. It's actually available now using any of the dual DDR3 boards and 8GB DIMM's, but those prices won't drop until quarter 1 2010.
I am watching a 16GB 64bit AMD DAW kicking major booty for 1850 right now.

It seems to me spawning stems is not what this was made for, but rather sending stems to. I envision sending x amount of stems, and having MIR create like a scratch template in 5,1.
Any techniques that save time and money and maximize workflow are worth their weight in Gold.
At least MIR seems to be a step in that direction and we should appluad their efforts....


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## Dietz (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi all, 


_I hope you allow for a quick "non-private" reply to this thread [... putting on his VSL T-shirt ...]_


Thanks for the interest in our youngest baby (with the longest pregnancy ever ... 8-) ...). Vienna MIR suggest a very different, new approach to virtual orchestration and to mixing in general. Before too many questions arise, let me just point you to the (still preliminary) manual, which also covers the basic ideas and core technologies of MIR. It is freely available form the VSL-homepage:

http://vsl.co.at/en/68/428/709/239.htm

This should most likely answer many of your questions and avoid wrong expectations and/or misestimations.

Kind regards,


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## Dietz (Jul 24, 2009)

... oh - and before I forget: There will be a time-limited demo of Vienna MIR available soon.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 24, 2009)

This sounds intriguing.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jul 24, 2009)

artinro @ Thu Jul 23 said:


> It's important to note here that these video demos were made with a pre-alpha version of MIR. I hear what you're saying about these demos and I can tell you (again from personal experience) that MIR in its current state sounds incredible...far better than any other option I've tried for Vienna Instruments....and I've tried them all. I'm sure newer demos will be released shortly which I hope will illustrate this.
> 
> All the best!



Why post demos made with a pre-alpha version when the version 1.0 is available? It doesn't make sense to me that the posted demos need a disclaimer like this and the listener should "imagine" that the 1.0 version sounds better...


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## Guy Bacos (Jul 24, 2009)

Emanuel @ Fri Jul 24 said:


> artinro @ Thu Jul 23 said:
> 
> 
> > It's important to note here that these video demos were made with a pre-alpha version of MIR. I hear what you're saying about these demos and I can tell you (again from personal experience) that MIR in its current state sounds incredible...far better than any other option I've tried for Vienna Instruments....and I've tried them all. I'm sure newer demos will be released shortly which I hope will illustrate this.
> ...



I'm curious myself.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jul 24, 2009)

Sorry for my negative post, just played the demos on my setup, and I must say:
I'm completely unimpressed - apart from the price tag and requirements.

I am afraid that VSL may shoot itself in the foot by launching a heavy app like this that can only be used with the VSL instruments... as if they require this miracle tool in order to have them well mixed... very expensive band aid...

I'm sure that experienced mixing engineers can create similar or better results with the currently available plugins.


And why post a heavy piece from Strauss? Why not go over the orchestra and let individual instruments and groups play one by one? That would be a far better showcase to demo a virtual stage!


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## germancomponist (Jul 24, 2009)

Emanuel @ Fri Jul 24 said:


> I'm sure that experienced engineers can create similar or better results with the currently available plugins. ..



No question about this. They seem to combine different plugs/effects controlable much easier. But when I think about sidechaining here and there, our dynamic eq`s a.s.o. , so it is not easy to do, or perhaps will never arrive the sound what we do with ouer individual plugs.

Lets see. It is interesting!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jul 24, 2009)

And I also do not like the idea of being locked to the software of a sample provider... A year ago I bought Appassionata Strings and I have never been able to use them (on a clean XP machine with an RME card).
"Try this update..." - doh...


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## Guy Bacos (Jul 24, 2009)

But as long as we're not hearing the real deal it might be wise to wait and see.


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## artinro (Jul 24, 2009)

Emanuel @ Fri Jul 24 said:


> Sorry for my negative post, just played the demos on my setup, and I must say:
> I'm completely unimpressed - apart from the price tag and requirements.
> 
> I am afraid that VSL may shoot itself in the foot by launching a heavy app like this that can only be used with the VSL instruments... as if they require this miracle tool in order to have them well mixed... very expensive band aid...
> ...



Peter, I hear what you're saying about having demos up that were made with an alpha version and I understand your point about "imagining" what full version demos sound like. I'll just say, hold off until there are some more demos up there. It's been a lot of hard work for the VSL folks to get MIR out the door and I'm sure new demos will be available shortly. 

However, I can tell you from years of experience that it will be nearly impossible to create similar or better results for VSL mockups without MIR (especially given the speed and efficiency MIR provides)....and believe me, I have used all of the reverb plugins as well as outboard equipment (bricasti, lexicons, etc...). This is, of course, my humble opinion. 

Lastly, MIR pro will be able to host outside libraries so it will be "VSL only" for just a while. 

Hope that helps.

(By the way, I do own and _love_ your libraries, Peter, and I use them all the time on my work.)


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## artinro (Jul 24, 2009)

germancomponist @ Fri Jul 24 said:


> No question about this. They seem to combine different plugs/effects controlable much easier. But when I think about sidechaining here and there, our dynamic eq`s a.s.o. , so it is not easy to do, or perhaps will never arrive the sound what we do with ouer individual plugs.
> 
> Lets see. It is interesting!



You actually can host other plugins (Eqs, compressors, etc...) within MIR.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jul 24, 2009)

artinro @ Fri Jul 24 said:


> Peter, I hear what you're saying about having demos up that were made with an alpha version and I understand your point about "imagining" what full version demos sound like. I'll just say, hold off until there are some more demos up there. It's been a lot of hard work for the VSL folks to get MIR out the door and I'm sure new demos will be available shortly.
> 
> However, I can tell you from years of experience that it will be nearly impossible to create similar or better results for VSL mockups without MIR (especially given the speed and efficiency MIR provides)....and believe me, I have used all of the reverb plugins as well as outboard equipment (bricasti, lexicons, etc...). This is, of course, my humble opinion.
> 
> ...



Hehe, thanks!

Allow me to put my negative posts into perspective. I am not a pro composer or engineer and have no experience with top gear (apart from the boxes I rented  )

I am sure that ultimately new demos must be judged by real pros!

However, I do have a background in psychophysics and maths and have read piles of scientific articles on IRs (including a lot from the field of seismology!) - and I had really expected a lot more from the first demos! The concept behind MIR is surely interesting, but I am also afraid of overkill and interferences, like the phase cancelation stuff that was mentioned.


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## germancomponist (Jul 24, 2009)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jul 24 said:


> But as long as we're not hearing the real deal it might be wise to wait and see.



Yeah, as I said before. It is very interesting! Lets see how the party will go.


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## germancomponist (Jul 24, 2009)

Emanuel @ Fri Jul 24 said:


> And I also do not like the idea of being locked to the software of a sample provider... A year ago I bought Appassionata Strings and I have never been able to use them (on a clean XP machine with an RME card).
> "Try this update..." - doh...



Oops, if you are driving in an "Opel" you can`t sit there at a "VW" car seat.
If I am right there later will be a version for all...?

The only one library I love from the Viennas is that Appasionata strings. Hope your trouble will end very fast!

Gunther


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jul 24, 2009)

germancomponist @ Fri Jul 24 said:


> Emanuel @ Fri Jul 24 said:
> 
> 
> > And I also do not like the idea of being locked to the software of a sample provider... A year ago I bought Appassionata Strings and I have never been able to use them (on a clean XP machine with an RME card).
> ...



11 years ago our last child was just 3 weeks old and we were in the French Ardeche with our brand new Renault Espace. After 2 days the airco stopped working and outside is was terribly hot. So we couldn't go anywhere with our newborn. When I went to a Renault garage they couldn't help me: they could not log into the computer, because the car was not configured for the French market...

Sometimes I really love the days when we just had a Citroen 2CV!


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## Pzy-Clone (Aug 3, 2009)

Hey all...
It seems there is a demo for MIR available now...
Not sure my pc can even run it, but im gonna give it a try anyways.


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## ozmorphasis (Aug 4, 2009)

pzy-clone,

Can you post some short mp3 demos? Nothing fancy, just to give some more flesh to the concept.

Thanks,
O


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## Pzy-Clone (Aug 4, 2009)

yes, i can , sort off.
But the problem is that you cant realy run the Sequencer and MIR on the same computer, so i have to use my old Korg workstation sequencer for now to try it lol.

I have a laptop i could use with Cubase, but im not setup like that rite now,.
Ill see what i can come up with (or not.) it will sound horribly unimpressive.

Due to my PC being waay under the required specs posted by VSL, i can only run like 10 , maybe 15 VI`s in realtime with a low buffer .
So can get the most basic stuff in there, but beyond that i guess its time for a new computer if one really wants MIR to work as intended.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 4, 2009)

*cough* Mac *cough*


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## Peter Alexander (Aug 5, 2009)

Jack Weaver @ Tue Aug 04 said:


> Ned,
> 
> My guess is that you won't really want MIR until MIR Pro is happening. You're gonna want to be able to use other libraries in addition to VSL and be able to buss other content in & out of it. It's not really built for that in the current version. Hopefully VSL and Snow Leopard can coexist in order to have this coincide with the 64-bit Mac version.
> 
> ...



FYI, the MINIMUM spec for MIR is an i7, from what I've read. Runs Vienna Instruments on the same system.


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## hbuus (Aug 5, 2009)

Regarding the minimum spec for running MIR, look here:
http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/21804.aspx

I've cut/pasted and inserted some text from the link below.
Apparently not even an i7 920 is recommended for MIR!

/Henrik

***

*Thu, Jun 18 2009 15:13 In reply to 

JFreese 

Re: MIR - i7 920 2.66 Ghz 

So, will the 920 work?



Sat, Jun 20 2009 16:23 In reply to 

cm 

yes it will, though we cannot say currently up to how many instruments on stage with which plugins inserted ...

IMO it is not the best idea to buy the slowest processor of the i7 series just for MIR .... if you think the 965/975 is too expensive consider at least the 940, 950



of yourse you can choose a smart for driving in indanapolis or monza, but more efficient would be a porsche 

christian*


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## Jack Weaver (Aug 5, 2009)

Peter,

Yes, it does run everything now on one computer (MIR + VSL libraries only). However I would imagine that when MIR Pro comes about that you'll be able to bus into & out of it from another computer - besides using other libs within it. 

;.


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## Pzy-Clone (Aug 5, 2009)

I can run MIR with 15 full VI`s on my Quadcore 2.8GHz, with 8GB`s of samples loaded.
Thats with low buffers, if i raised the latency, i could probably double that amount.

But financially , it makes no sense to buy MIR to run only 15 Instruments. >8o


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