# Hans Zimmer Percussion - Overview VIDEO



## Daniel James (Nov 30, 2013)

Hey guys,

I just uploaded my first look overview of the Hans Zimmer Percussion library. In the video I wrote a short demo track which I then dissect and talk about where I used certain patches and why. I also do a few comparisons between the different mic positions and talk about how each mix compared to the others.

As the whole library hasn't been released yet I will be covering it a bit more over the next few weeks as it all becomes available. 

I talk about few mixing things I do to the sounds to make them work for me. 

I also discuss things that I like and dislike.....and if the like/dislike counter on Youtube is anything to go by there are many who disagree with me haha Anyways I hope you guys enjoy it regardless 

VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgMPulHcZBU

MP3 - https://soundcloud.com/hybridtwo/hz01-i ... ans-zimmer

-DJ


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## RiffWraith (Nov 30, 2013)

So in the past week (roughly), you have done a CStrings vid, and now a HZ01 vid. That it??? I mean, can you put forth a little effort here? Jeez.....

:lol: 

Seriously, how is it you have 151 views and 13 dislikes already?!!?! :shock: You know - it could actually be the same guy, with Tor, or something....


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## Daniel James (Nov 30, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> So in the past week (roughly), you have done a CStrings vid, and now a HZ01 vid. That it??? I mean, can you put forth a little effort here? Jeez.....
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Seriously, how is it you have 151 views and 13 dislikes already?!!?! :shock: You know - it could actually be the same guy, with Tor, or something....



Well the fact I had 10 dislikes within like 10 minutes of it being uploaded kinda suggests that somebody only came to the video with the intent to keep disliking it for whatever reason. Hey if its genuine people who disagree with me I am more than happy for them to dislike it, thats why its there  if its people just disliking it out of spite, its pathetic.

Ah well I was expecting some hate with this one. I hope the people who are genuinely going to watch it join in with a good debate here. I have opinions, not everyone will agree and thats OK! Its not the end of the world 

-DJ


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## davidgary73 (Nov 30, 2013)

Gave you a thumbs up on the video and thank you for the overview video. Watching it right now. 

Oh..don't worry about those who purposely dislike your video and never let the "dislike" get you down. 

You have put up heaps of great overviews and many have learned/gain much from your walkthrough and infact, you helped me seal my purchase with Albion. THanks again mate for this great video. 

Cheers
David


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## Daniel James (Nov 30, 2013)

davidgary73 @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> Gave you a thumbs up on the video and thank you for the overview video. Watching it right now.
> 
> Oh..don't worry about those who purposely dislike your video and never let the "dislike" get you down.
> 
> ...



Hey David!

Glad you enjoyed it mate! and don't worry the likes/dislikes doesn't get me up or down. Its just great to see so much passion and perseverance behind the people trying to tell me how much they hate me hahaha 

-DJ


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## Guffy (Nov 30, 2013)

Those dislikes are obviously not "legit".
As always, thanks for doing this. Looking forward to watching it


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## woodsdenis (Nov 30, 2013)

A fair and honest review is what you actually believe DJ, there is no argument with that. 

With the talent involved and listening to the vid it is indeed excellent sounding, I think maybe some people are expecting a "super hyped" Damage type lib, however with Steve Lipson and Junkie XL to follow, it may fill those elements really well also. We shall see.

There is also an argument for presenting the library in a well recorded and neutral state, so you can process them yourself.

As you said in the vid this is not a wow straight out of the box big boom trailer type library, which in some ways I applaud them for doing.


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## Daniel James (Nov 30, 2013)

woodsdenis @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> A fair and honest review is what you actually believe DJ, there is no argument with that.
> 
> With the talent involved and listening to the vid it is indeed excellent sounding, I think maybe some people are expecting a "super hyped" Damage type lib, however with Steve Lipson and Junkie XL to follow, it may fill those elements really well also. We shall see.
> 
> ...



Totally agree! Like I mention in the video I LOVE how deeply recorded and how many options you have with regards to the tone of the drums. And agreed if you were wanting that super epic sounding trailer sounding type percussion like you get from DAMAGE or 8dio's epic series you will be underwhelmed a tad but if you are going for that huge soundtrack (ala Han's work) then you will find lots to love. And also like I mentioned in the video that you can process the drums to a more over the top sound but it requires digging into the engine (something those on the Kontakt Player cant do) which is why I was banging on so much about having some of those options on the front panel! I mean just a bit of saturation and EQ was getting them sounding huge to my ears haha.

And man I can't wait for the JunkieXL mixes! If they are of the over processed and epic trailer variety then this library is hitting all bases. Right now, without the easy ability to tweak the sound (ie EQ, saturation) its just lacking a tad for that overprocessed sound.....mind you most of the people here compose scores so they will be having a great time from the get go 

-DJ


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## SymphonicSamples (Nov 30, 2013)

Hey Daniel , as always , greatly appreciate your effort and points of view when it comes to library reviews . It's the closest I'll get to HZ here and now . On the day of release , it was the first time I've ever had speed issues with my Net provider , gotta love that , perfect timing , with a magic 50k a second , I may have it next year  At least when my connections back to normal and purchased/downloaded , I'll be very familiar with the library , after watching . Cheers for the passion to keep doing walkthroughs o-[][]-o


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## MA-Simon (Nov 30, 2013)

> I can't wait for the JunkieXL mixes!





> over processed and epic trailer



You know, I read this so many time on here already. 
Lots of pressure on that poor guy.


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## DSP Bill (Nov 30, 2013)

woodsdenis @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> There is also an argument for presenting the library in a well recorded and neutral state, so you can process them yourself.



+1

DJ, I've been following your video reviews for far longer than I've been on this forum, and they are really well done and appreciated. Constructive criticism is the best way to bring issues up in the hope that they may be addressed. Keep up the good work.

IMHO I kind of felt that the Hans mixes did give me that extra 10%, and I'm grateful for the flexibility of the library to be able to go to the other mixes when I really don't want it so hyped and over the top. I've got many other 'over the top' libraries, and this seems to fit in well. Looking forward to your next review.

Bill


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## Daniel James (Nov 30, 2013)

DSP Bill @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> woodsdenis @ Sat Nov 30 said:
> 
> 
> > There is also an argument for presenting the library in a well recorded and neutral state, so you can process them yourself.
> ...



Haha yeah like I said in the video (I think if that bit didnt go in part of the software crash I had) Its like Hans had a button that turns everything up to fucking 11 haha. Han's mixes are the closest to that over processed sound but they still feel like the are firmly in the film score level, which if you are writing big action cues its perfect. However trailers have a very particular polish to them where it no longer sounds organically real and becomes its own thing, that hyper processed sound.

Also I agree with the comment above, JunkieXL has alot of hopes anticipation on his mixes now. I can't even remember where that started lol but fingers crossed he doesn't get to stressed over it 

When I talk about that last 10% BTW I am mostly refering to how it almost feels like the drum is begging to be hit that little bit harder....this however may be due to my distorted view on what 'real percussion' sounds like...I have been spoiled by the epic 8dio stuff and DAMAGE. So that 10% I speak of may even be that little extra you get on top in the over processed stuff. Like I keep saying though, I love it regardless.

-DJ


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## Echoes in the Attic (Nov 30, 2013)

Man, I definitely know what you mean about the weird robin robin where you showed that on the dhol. Well I don't know it first hand from this library yet but I found the round robins too different in Albion as well. I think round robin should be the same hit, not so different as that it will stand out and create a looping sound. That's the irony about round robins that are too different, they end up making it sound fake because of the obvious looping of different sounds.

That dohl really sounded like it was different type of hits in there.


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 1, 2013)

Dhols... be bababa bop... :lol: 

Thanks Daniel, just watching it, entertaining as usual.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 1, 2013)

I'm not sure when I'll have the time to watch, but looking forward to doing so. The dislike thing seems infantile.

Dan, by the last 10% do you mean into-the-red hybrid type stuff? I guess so. Personally I think I'm quite well served there, I wanted non-distorted stuff, but it's easy to see how HZ could evolve in that direction. I strongly suspect that in the fullness of time we'll see a K5.3 revamped GUI with ADSR and transient shaper (as requested by Hans!) and also compression, delay and distortion options too - that would be terrific. In Christian's walkthrough video, the last third is pretty much devoted to those sorts of tweaks using 3rd party plugs, and it struck me most of that could be easily handled in the box.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the library evolves. Some form of pattern generator, the aforementioned gui changes, the extra mixes and a few master patches would make this The One Percussion Library To Rule Them All. I feel they've started with the best foundation possible, mind - which is why I hit BUY yesterday.

Gawd, I so wish they'd drop Continuata though - 24 hours and counting after I gave up yesterday with endless restarts (support ticket in to get manual links). Already I see the speed dropping again this morning after a whole 15 minutes - sheesh. I downloaded Lumina a few weeks ago in under an hour - 42gb, and CineStrings @50gb in 4 hours... that felt a little sluggish at the time but now feels like warp speed.


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## AC986 (Dec 1, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> RiffWraith @ Sat Nov 30 said:
> 
> 
> > So in the past week (roughly), you have done a CStrings vid, and now a HZ01 vid. That it??? I mean, can you put forth a little effort here? Jeez.....
> ...



Who cares if 10 people dislike it. What difference will that make to you? It's called rejection for whatever reason. So what?


I liked the video and just finished watching it. Great sounding library. Bit too big for my setup unfortunately. At least for the moment. 

I thought you went through the whole thing well on this one.


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## Phil M (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks for doing the vid, a lot of helpful stuff in it and the direct comparison of the different mixes was really useful. I'm still really torn on buying it, but right now there's other stuff that's more of a priority for me, so as a compromise I'm trying to talk myself into putting down the credit card and waiting for HZ03 instead :lol:


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## Polarity (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks for the video Daniel... :D 
watching now, I'm about 40 mins now.

just a pity you didn't use HZ mics for the track, but actually I heard most of his sounds in the other demos, so not worried about that.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 1, 2013)

adriancook @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> Who cares if 10 people dislike it. What difference will that make to you? It's called rejection for whatever reason. So what?



Actually that's the whole point - that's NOT what it appears to be. If its true that a 90 minute video got 10 dislikes literally within minutes of going live, that's not people watching and disliking it. That appears to be an organised attempt to discredit the video. I won't speculate on who might do that and why, only that it is pretty pathetic behaviour - at best.


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## Letis (Dec 1, 2013)

thank you for this review/overview. useful, informative and well done as always!

b.t.w...do i remember right that NI´s actions strikes will be one of your next reviews?


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## Lex (Dec 1, 2013)

I thought it was a good overview video. I feel differently about all the things that bother you with HZ01, but that doesn't make it a bad video. 


alex


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## Ron Snijders (Dec 1, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sun 01 Dec said:


> adriancook @ Sun Dec 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Who cares if 10 people dislike it. What difference will that make to you? It's called rejection for whatever reason. So what?
> ...


It's probably you, trying to get your share of the Video Walkthrough business after doing the Lumina ones :mrgreen: (o) ~o)

Even though I'm not in the market for this, may I commend you on the piece you wrote for the video? I really like it


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 1, 2013)

Ron Snijders @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> It's probably you, trying to get your share of the Video Walkthrough business after doing the Lumina ones :mrgreen: (o) ~o)



Ah dammit! Busted!


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## AC986 (Dec 1, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> adriancook @ Sun Dec 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Who cares if 10 people dislike it. What difference will that make to you? It's called rejection for whatever reason. So what?
> ...



Guy FFS. Who cares about that? Can't you just rise above all that nonsense. When you did your videos of Lumina, did you really care about all of that bollocks? Of course not!


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## Martin K (Dec 1, 2013)

Hey Daniel. Thanks again for a very well done video. 

That you explain why you like/dislike something while showing exactly what you mean by it, makes it that much easier to make up my own opinion. 

For instance Albion 1 - I could see why you felt it was aimed more at the softer side of things, but it sounded "epic" enough for me, so I bought it. I needed an "all-rounder" to get me started and it was one of the first libs I got thanks to your overview.

Your direct opinions and clarity in explaining why you think whatever you think about these libraries are very much appreciated. No library is perfect for everybody and we all got different needs and opinions about what’s good and what’s not so good. Your overviews are by far the best source there is to make an informed decision before purchasing.

Looking forward to more 

best,
Martin


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## germancomponist (Dec 1, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> Actually that's the whole point - that's NOT what it appears to be. If its true that a 90 minute video got 10 dislikes literally within minutes of going live, that's not people watching and disliking it. That appears to be an organised attempt to discredit the video. I won't speculate on who might do that and why, only that it is pretty pathetic behaviour - at best.



Had we not discussed a similar topic in another thread 2 days ago? There I was the bad guy because of my guesses. :-D

@Daniel, I'll watch the video now and I am especially pleased again to the entertainment value.

o-[][]-o


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## Polarity (Dec 1, 2013)

after 1 hour and 20 mins I can say that it's very interesting and useful how much the instruments change among the three different mics sets!
Sometimes they even seem like different instruments.

However, very nice also the chance to double the patches of the same kind of instrument and pass from one to another for a dramatic change inside a track.

It's like have three libraries in one...
and we haven't heard yet the other two mics sets!!

uh, no cymbals/piatti rolls then?


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 1, 2013)

Daniel,

personally I can't stand the saturation available in Kontakt at all, would be interesting to hear what others have to say. To me this would be a waste of space in the GUI. I'd never touch that knob! 

As with everything, I realise it is a matter of taste, but apart from the classics, such as Sound Toys Decapitator, or Ferric Bootsy - reminds me that Cranesong Phoenix II is also excellent but sadly TDM only - so perhaps you might want to try the Twin Tube SPL, or for tape the Klanghelm SDRR, both of which easily smoke that crappy Kontakt saturation in my ears.

YMMV  

Best
G


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## valexnerfarious (Dec 1, 2013)

Cant forget the waves NLS


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 1, 2013)

just crossing my mind... you know what would be a most interesting video?

To have all of them at the table, Hans, Alan, Geoff, Junkie, Steve discussing their different approaches for an hour, starting with single mini interviews, Hans talking about the other four, then Alan talking about the other four etc., and then ... Tutti. :D 

I imagine this to be very educational, knowing they have a lot of respect for their colleagues, to have them discuss their different approaches would be fantastic.


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 1, 2013)

valexnerfarious @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> Cant forget the waves NLS



I just named a few of course, but yes, all of them smoke Kontakt saturation, in my ears.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 1, 2013)

germancomponist @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Sun Dec 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Actually that's the whole point - that's NOT what it appears to be. If its true that a 90 minute video got 10 dislikes literally within minutes of going live, that's not people watching and disliking it. That appears to be an organised attempt to discredit the video. I won't speculate on who might do that and why, only that it is pretty pathetic behaviour - at best.
> ...



The big difference, Gunther, is that I don't jump straight at someone (who is brand new) and accuse them of doing it! I don't know who did it - there are several possibilities - but just know it stinks.

And Adrian, if someone had posted 10 dislikes within seconds of a video going live, I'd have been mighty suspicious. Of course, it'll all be forgotten in time but its so petty and childish it does irritate me.

I was really enjoying the first 15 mins of the video but had to break off - I shall return! For now the real thing as finally arrived I gotta find out for myself how it is


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## Polarity (Dec 1, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sun 01 Dec said:


> Hey David!
> 
> Glad you enjoyed it mate! and don't worry the likes/dislikes doesn't get me up or down. Its just great to see so much passion and perseverance behind the people trying to tell me how much they hate me hahaha
> 
> -DJ



how much they hate you or just how much they envy you perhaps?


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 1, 2013)

Just breaking off playin' and grinnin' to pass on re the Dohls and round robin - DJ (and others) try the Geoff Foster mixes for the Dohls, they feel much more even to me. I prefer the HZ tone, but GFs are still pretty damn good.

So far loving it! Putting together a list of my fave versions, trying all three mixes side by side. Early conclusion - Hans' R is Alan's S 

EDIT - COR! For those with the lib, layer 2 instances of Alan Merysons Paper Djuns and Tombeks, set to the same midi channel. Close and Surround mics only. Make the Djuns relatively louder. COR!!!!!! I'm picking speaker cone out of my hair.


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## Waywyn (Dec 1, 2013)

If you receive dislikes in such a short amount of time it probably was some IP changing "attack" and probably just one person. However, it speaks for it, because I remember you saying somewhere (think it was Facebook) that they disappeared after a while. Could have been that YT tracked down the happening and erased them.

Enjoyed the video!


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## davidgary73 (Dec 1, 2013)

Guy, would you be so kind to do a simple walkthrough as well? We would love to hear your view and inputs.


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## Hannes_F (Dec 1, 2013)

I only see 4 dislikes by now.
Good video, thanks DJ!

EDIT
As others have said this video sells me the library more than anything else. I happen to like that 'a drum is a drum' sound.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 1, 2013)

davidgary73 @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> Guy, would you be so kind to do a simple walkthrough as well? We would love to hear your view and inputs.



Nooo.... this is Dan's gig here! I might put up my favouite patches / mixes of mics maybe in the main HZ thread if anyone's remotely interested.


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## davidgary73 (Dec 1, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> davidgary73 @ Sun Dec 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Guy, would you be so kind to do a simple walkthrough as well? We would love to hear your view and inputs.
> ...



Definately interested and looking forward to know your favourite patches/mixes of mics when you post in the main thread. 

Cheers


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## Allegro (Dec 1, 2013)

Great video as usual DJ!
One of the coolest things we can do with different mixes using their mic positions is that we can create a more personal and unique mix that the mixers never originally intended it to sound.
Lets say we load the same instrument from three (probably four in future) different mixes and combine close mic of Hans mix with the outriggers of Alan mix. When Junkie finishes his mix. the possibilities will be even greater. I think i've heard Hans mention in the video that Junkie's mix will be more on the aggressive territory which will compliment the current sounds perfectly. Combine all the with an update to utilize Kontakt 5s new features such as transient shaping, a handy saturation and EQ knob which DJ mentioned, the possibi...........You see where I am going? :D


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## Hannes_F (Dec 1, 2013)

Allegro @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> Lets say we load the same instrument from three (probably four in future) different mixes and combine close mic of Hans mix with the outriggers of Alan mix.



But we might need to phase align these.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 1, 2013)

I've been listening to DJ in the background while I plough through some grind work here. One thing I'd definitely say to you Dan is that this business of topping out - I didn't find this at all, but I maybe approached the patches differently. What I did - and I absolutely recommend this - is to get three windows going, with the three guys' sets of instruments. Then in Kontakt I had 3 instruments going, and dragged the different artists' nkis into each and went through them in turn, one by one, fiddling with the mics and A/B/Cing.

The differences were staggering, and it was often hard to predict beforehand which way they were gonna go. Some patches sound like completely different instruments. Something blew my socks off with one nki, but seemed tame on another. One would have real heft, the other body. And I found LOADS-A-CRACK!

Dan, I think it would be worth your time going through the library afresh doing this. I'd be amazed if you didn't discover whole new wonders. I know you're into your sound design and manipulation - and beyond doubt there's room for improvement there in 1.0 - but I'm concerned you're missing what's really great about HZ and rushing too quickly into outboard when there's more goodies right there in the core samples. Not just the three mic positions, but the all the different combinations between them all. There was barely an instrument that I didn't find a really magic combo that did it for me. Oh, and many instruments have pullis or rolls or palms or other playing techniques which mean they can be used in very diverse ways - check out the super-cool way Christian used the timp rods in his walkthrough, for example.

Actually I may as well post it here, but for whatever it's worth, here's my 1st crash through some fave patches - I didn't jot down the precise balance, but just have a fiddle. I hope you figure out the acronyms:

Bucket snares HZ pitched up a little C+R
Darbuka AM R+S

Bombos HZ R
Boobams +BB2s HZ C.5 R
Dohl ensemble GF CTO
Paper Djuns + Tombeks - layer as one - AM C+S
Bass drum HZ CR
Low boom gal AM CR
Low booms GF CTO
Surdo ens HZ and AM as alternatives, totally different sounding drums!

Anvils HZ CR
gong drum AM CS
Cymbals AM CS
Tamtam HZ R

Taiko hi HZ CRS (r most)
Taiko lo HZ CR
Taiko ens HZ CRS (r most)

Timps HZ CR (c a little more, much less for soft)

But I urge everyone to go through it themselves, it only takes an hour or two. There's every chance you'll wind up with compeltely different combos, and no doubt I've missed some gold. I may well end up in several cases with totally different template patches of the same instruments. So I stress - all these would be starters for the template not a "use forever" thing, and all opinions are subject to change at a moment's notice!

EDIT - just a coda - of course you won't get into the realm of distortion effects without further treatment if you wanna go that far, but in terms of finding a great sound for each drum, I do think it's all there.


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## Adrian Myers (Dec 1, 2013)

Loved the video, brilliant work as always!

I was wondering how you would approach the somewhat more staid, or perhaps traditional sound of the library. I saw in the main thread that this generated a fair amount of confusion or disappointment initially. For myself, and I'm sure a lot of people, it was the main draw really, because it allows you so much more range and a chance to experience a rare delicacy in sampling. Even Hans hinted at this in his interview somewhat, talking about the "bloom" of a soft hit in a room like Air and his interest in mixing that alongside a full orchestra. It has always seemed to me that Hans puts as much if not more effort into the minute and serene as he does in the heroic and agitated, and that really comes across in HZ01. Anyway, it's very nice to see all that discussed here.

Cheers!


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## laughing crusader (Dec 1, 2013)

i agree with mr. james it not sound very big. maybe spitfire or mr. zimmer make some epic music demo with percussion? all demos sound pretty bad now


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## Lex (Dec 1, 2013)

laughing crusader @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> i agree with mr. james it not sound very big. maybe spitfire or mr. zimmer make some epic music demo with percussion? all demos sound pretty bad now



Great first post man, welcome to the forum!

alex


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## RiffWraith (Dec 1, 2013)

Lex @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> laughing crusader @ Sun Dec 01 said:
> 
> 
> > i agree with mr. james it not sound very big. maybe spitfire or mr. zimmer make some epic music demo with percussion? all demos sound pretty bad now
> ...



LOL


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## Hanu_H (Dec 1, 2013)

I think that the lenght of your videos might give you some dislikes. The youth needs everything right away. They can concentrate only 5 minutes at the time, so they only get you blabbering something weird and then they already skip it and press dislike. 
Amazing job as always.

-Hannes


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## Daniel James (Dec 1, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> I've been listening to DJ in the background while I plough through some grind work here. One thing I'd definitely say to you Dan is that this business of topping out - I didn't find this at all, but I maybe approached the patches differently. What I did - and I absolutely recommend this - is to get three windows going, with the three guys' sets of instruments. Then in Kontakt I had 3 instruments going, and dragged the different artists' nkis into each and went through them in turn, one by one, fiddling with the mics and A/B/Cing.
> 
> The differences were staggering, and it was often hard to predict beforehand which way they were gonna go. Some patches sound like completely different instruments. Something blew my socks off with one nki, but seemed tame on another. One would have real heft, the other body. And I found LOADS-A-CRACK!
> 
> ...



Hey Guy,

Totally get what you are saying! Did you go through the video all the way yet? I mention a few times I actually love the sounds and have built some 'tasty' (as I called them) combos of my own. I just felt it was lacking a tad in the crack department haha.

The 10% thing I am talking about is how, when you slam that midi keyboard note full force the drum doesn't feel (to me , you are allowed to disagree  ) like it is matching your intention. Feels like its hitting hard but not like the player is trying to rip through the skin face first....if that makes sense. Again I may have been spoiled by libraries that have done this well in the past, but I stand by my opinion that this lib will make your life hard if you are using *only* this for trailer scores. If you are adding it to other percussion libs that have crack (as most of us do) then you are sorted and your mixers will sound much richer because of this.  

Again let me be clear, I am loving the library. I just have things that would make my life of making it 'sit' a bit better. The only reason I bring up the lack of crack is for those out there that don't already have percussion libraries to augment with. I mean I keep talking about Damage and 8dio Epic Percussion....I have those lol so I will just throw them in. 

-DJ


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## germancomponist (Dec 1, 2013)

Lex @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> laughing crusader @ Sun Dec 01 said:
> 
> 
> > i agree with mr. james it not sound very big. maybe spitfire or mr. zimmer make some epic music demo with percussion? all demos sound pretty bad now
> ...


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## Click Sky Fade (Dec 1, 2013)

Well I didn't think about looking here for DJ's walkthrough. Excellent as always although !hr 40 mins is a tad short.


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## germancomponist (Dec 1, 2013)

An entertaining video, as always. 

The most important for me is the audio quality of the recordings. It's no secret that you can achieve a lot with appropriate effects, but that's another topic? I use effects almost everywhere, but it all works only very well when the pure shots are good. And in this library, the audio recordings are very good! The first reason to buy it!

But yeah, I underline your suggestions about building patches for Kontakt 5.


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## Daniel James (Dec 1, 2013)

germancomponist @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> An entertaining video, as always.
> 
> The most important for me is the audio quality of the recordings. It's no secret that you can achieve a lot with appropriate effects, but that's another topic? I use effects almost everywhere, but it all works only very well when the pure shots are good. And in this library, the audio recordings are very good! The first reason to buy it!
> 
> But yeah, I underline your suggestions about building patches for Kontakt 5.



Yup the samples are so well done and deeply recorded, and that is where the main value of the product is!

-DJ


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## SyMTiK (Dec 1, 2013)

wow someone already got their hands on it, not surprising that it was you haha, i see you have a lot of reviews on these sorts of libraries. do you have a deal with these companies or something and they send you copies to review or do you buy all of them? if so you have one hell of a library haha 

and a somewhat relevant question pertaining to spitfire: does anyone know if their education discount applies to high school students? im really interested in getting albion, yet im not sure if their education discount is for college students only, they dont really specify, they just say students or teachers, so im assuming that means high school students too. if any one knows that would be a great help


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## Giant_Shadow (Dec 1, 2013)

maybe he is listening on his phone ? :roll: 



RiffWraith @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> Lex @ Mon Dec 02 said:
> 
> 
> > laughing crusader @ Sun Dec 01 said:
> ...


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## Ed (Dec 1, 2013)

I like to read laughing crusader's posts in a deep heavy Russian accent. It fits perfectly with the one on the main HZP thread. lol

Great video Dan, I watched all of it  I'll have to get into that transient designer stuff.


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## Darthmorphling (Dec 1, 2013)

SyMTiK @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> wow someone already got their hands on it, not surprising that it was you haha, i see you have a lot of reviews on these sorts of libraries. do you have a deal with these companies or something and they send you copies to review or do you buy all of them? if so you have one hell of a library haha
> 
> and a somewhat relevant question pertaining to spitfire: does anyone know if their education discount applies to high school students? im really interested in getting albion, yet im not sure if their education discount is for college students only, they dont really specify, they just say students or teachers, so im assuming that means high school students too. if any one knows that would be a great help



Pretty sure you qualify. I teach 5th grade and qualify. I don't even teach music!


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 2, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sun Dec 01 said:


> Hey Guy,
> 
> Totally get what you are saying! Did you go through the video all the way yet? I mention a few times I actually love the sounds and have built some 'tasty' (as I called them) combos of my own. I just felt it was lacking a tad in the crack department haha.
> 
> ...



I'm just over halfway through - I'll make it to the end by Wednesday 

I think there might be some confusion over the "final 10%". Sometimes you seem to imply it's where you literally go into the red, add some saturation etc etc. No problem with that, where you go past the real and into the hyperreal. I hope the Spitfire guys are already planning an overhauled gui to keep as much of that in the instrument as possible - with only 4 controls currently (and pitch just moves the pitch control at the top of the nki!) there's so much scope for tweaking. Yes to ADSR, yes to saturation, yes to a proper EQ and yes to a transient designer (and as I said before, Hans has asked for a couple of them!). Ultimately yes to an arpeggiator of some kind too, yes to combo patches. And I'd far rather crack and boom were relaballed HPF and LPF with actual numbers in hz, its far more meaningful for the pros this product is aimed it (a good precise steep HPF will be very welcome). The controls do feel a bit Fisher Price in 1.0 - like I say, I'm sure all this is already being looked at

However, sometimes you seemed to imply that the raw sound itself was a bit wanting at the extreme end, and that's where I disagree based on my earliest fumblings. There were some instruments where you'd say "see, it lacks that real crack" and I thought "blimey, when I went through the different mixes I found heaps of it!" HZ01 seems to be acquiring an early reputation for somehow being a bit meek and mild, and I don't think that's true at all - it seemed huge and incredibly diverse right across the range of material you'd want to me. It's not damaged, but that's quite different. It's cool that there are so many surprising options in there for shaker replacements, for example - though there's only 1 instrument on the face of it to meet that kind of need, there must be dozens of other ways of playing other instruments which can perform this function - and usually with much more originality too.

Well, it'll be fascinating to see how the library develops. Some round robins are too different (but as I said before, if you run into problems try a different mix, where the samples used might be different). Some of the rolls are messy on CC1. But these feel like minor blemishes - and you just know that all that other functionality will be along before we know it.


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## laughing crusader (Dec 2, 2013)

I must regret to disgree, library has many microphone. but you say you have to change sound like EQ and trans designer and filter to sound good?? what is good on that??? i thought all idea was to sound best and famos people making all work no problem???


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 2, 2013)

laughing crusader @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> I must regret to disgree, library has many microphone. but you say you have to change sound like EQ and trans designer and filter to sound good?? what is good on that???



Well, I am sure you can imagine that DJ is not speaking on behalf of the composers world, he just offered his personal opinion, legitimately biased by his views and needs. 

His opinion is not reflecting my own by a long shot, and certainly is not representative of others as well. It has some entertaining value to see someone skillfully noodle around with a fresh product and share his cookies, and that's what it is all about in my view, really.



> i thought all idea was to sound best and famos people making all work no problem???



I would agree that the underlying idea was to create the very best, there is no doubt about it that you will push your boundaries if you have a chance to engage with the best of the best, and this has been achieved in many and unique ways with the vast amount of top notch musicians and world class soundengineers commited to the project.

This library is one of a kind amongst the overwhelming amount of libraries that have baked in flavours to suit a certain way of composing, subconsequently sacrifice versatility, and this is exactly what the HZ library brings to the table, versatility and painstaking precision recording and engineering.

Last but not least, your cynical comments are based on what? Claiming in another statement - Wake up and smell the coffin :lol: - that Hans would not have devoted time to the project? What makes you say that? 

Have a problem that a world class A-List composer and soundengineers are behind that library? What would be their motivation? Fame? Money? LOL Most certainly NOT!

Best
Georg


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 2, 2013)

laughing crusader @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> I must regret to disgree, library has many microphone. but you say you have to change sound like EQ and trans designer and filter to sound good?? what is good on that??? i thought all idea was to sound best and famos people making all work no problem???



How can I put this kindly? I think some of the subtleties of this debate are being lost on you. Maybe its a language thing?

I'll put my view very simply - this is the best non-orchestral percussion library I've played by a very long way, and the many mic mixes from different people provide almost endless possibilities, variety and subtlety in sounding outstanding out of the box. It's great for small and subtle or huge and epic. For more sound designy / distorted stuff, you'll need to further treat the library in its 1.0 incarnation, but only minor mix tweaks are required otherwise to balance the whole exactly as you'd do in any mix - high pass filters, a bit of compression / normalising etc.

As well as Daniel's great video, I highly recommend Christian's walkthrough to get a better feel for the library in use http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqkkuVDzpXE . I really enjoyed the way he selected instruments and used them, inspiring stuff.


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## Phil M (Dec 2, 2013)

laughing crusader @ Mon 02 Dec said:


> I must regret to disgree, library has many microphone. but you say you have to change sound like EQ and trans designer and filter to sound good?? what is good on that??? i thought all idea was to sound best and famos people making all work no problem???


What do you think painters do when they go to the art shop and find the shop doesn't have the exact shade of blue they want? Do they have a hissy fit, tell the owner his shop sucks and storm out, or do they buy something that's pretty close and then take it home and mix it with something else to get the colour they want?

From what I can tell (I don't own it) the sound of this library is simply "lots of high quality recordings of big fuck-off drums played in a nice room by professionals". It is up to you to take that starting point and develop it into "zulu horde thundering into Rorke's Drift" or "creepy pervert stalking a perturbed nun through Droylesden" or whatever. The library won't give you either of those out of the box and neither will it give you "exact copy of the drums from Hans Zimmer's last soundtrack". And, with all due respect to zulus, perverts, nuns and Hans Zimmer himself, that's exactly how it should be 8)


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## Richard Wilkinson (Dec 2, 2013)

Wake up and smell the coffin, people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

You're wasting time even engaging with him.


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## Lex (Dec 2, 2013)

laughing crusader @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> I must regret to disgree, library has many microphone. but you say you have to change sound like EQ and trans designer and filter to sound good?? what is good on that??? i thought all idea was to sound best and famos people making all work no problem???



All work no problem over here! Each to his own I guess.

alex


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## mmendez (Dec 2, 2013)

Excellent video as usual Daniel. Thanks for doing it!

Miguel


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 2, 2013)

Daniel,

I think I know what you mean about the extra 10% sometimes missing from drum sounds (in general not HZ specific). Sometimes if a drum's hardest hits aren't that different at 128 velocity than they are at around 110, you'll hit that max peak early and then slamming the drum at 128 plays the same or similar sound. I think it's important for that very top range (or just 128) to really be noticeably more powerful than below that. Reason for this is that keys aren't really something that are meant for banging too hard, they are meant for playing keys so we get to 128 pretty easily when playing drums since we're inclined to bang on them (not hold them). Some drums do have that jump at the very end to a brighter harder sound but some are more gradual, which I think gives that sense that something is missing. Probably a good thing for drum developers to take note of.


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## Daniel James (Dec 2, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> Daniel,
> 
> I think I know what you mean about the extra 10% sometimes missing from drum sounds (in general not HZ specific). Sometimes if a drum's hardest hits aren't that different at 128 velocity than they are at around 110, you'll hit that max peak early and then slamming the drum at 128 plays the same or similar sound. I think it's important for that very top range (or just 128) to really be noticeably more powerful than below that. Reason for this is that keys aren't really something that are meant for banging too hard, they are meant for playing keys so we get to 128 pretty easily when playing drums since we're inclined to bang on them (not hold them). Some drums do have that jump at the very end to a brighter harder sound but some are more gradual, which I think gives that sense that something is missing. Probably a good thing for drum developers to take note of.



I think this is the closest explanation to what I am on about! 

-DJ


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## ryanstrong (Dec 2, 2013)

Daniel James @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> I think this is the closest explanation to what I am on about!
> 
> -DJ



My only thought to what your on about Daniel is that didn't Hans himself at one point say that he likes to take softer hit drums and then compress them?

If that is the HZ philosophy then while you are right to assume a "normal" perc library would "crack" at/around 128, but it wouldn't make sense for the Hans Zimmer perc library to do that since that's not his philosophy.

I don't own the library but I just remember him (or someone) saying he did that with some of his percussion.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 2, 2013)

[SADLY} My midi notes only go up to 127.

I can feel a techie Spinal Tap joke coming on....


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## tmm (Dec 2, 2013)

Lex @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> laughing crusader @ Mon Dec 02 said:
> 
> 
> > I must regret to disgree, library has many microphone. but you say you have to change sound like EQ and trans designer and filter to sound good?? what is good on that??? i thought all idea was to sound best and famos people making all work no problem???
> ...



+1 I watched the demo vid (thanks for making it!), and actually liked the drum sounds better when you turned off all the extra Kontakt processing (saturation / EQ / transient master). That raw sound, especially on the close mics, is what really attracts me on this lib, and will likely result in my purchasing it.


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## Polarity (Dec 2, 2013)

ryanstrong @ Mon 02 Dec said:


> My only thought to what your on about Daniel is that didn't Hans himself at one point say that he likes to take softer hit drums and then compress them?
> 
> If that is the HZ philosophy then while you are right to assume a "normal" perc library would "crack" at/around 128, but it wouldn't make sense for the Hans Zimmer perc library to do that since that's not his philosophy.
> 
> I don't own the library but I just remember him (or someone) saying he did that with some of his percussion.



Exactly!
I remember that post by Hans himself where he wrote that if you want more loudness from some of the percussions you don't have to hit them extremely harder, because they get more thin, or something like that (more harsh).
Hit them at low dynamics and raise/compress (or use a limiter) the volume.
It's this way that he gets the boomy percussions more loud in his soundtracks.


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## Polarity (Dec 2, 2013)

Actually I'm not concerned about having saturator, compressor or transient master inside the patch GUI.
I have my ones (and Transient Master of Komplete 9 among them) and can go on using them externally in Cubase mixer: group channels or single ones.
If I need different settings for different sounds, no big deal to put HZP patches through Kontakt multiple outs.

I prefer to have an ADSR instead in HZP patch GUI.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 2, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> [SADLY} My midi notes only go up to 127.
> 
> I can feel a techie Spinal Tap joke coming on....



Haha, yeah mine cranks up to 128.

Ok I should have said the 128th velocity.... or just "127" like a normal person.


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## dedersen (Dec 2, 2013)

Great video, Daniel, the dhol impersonation had me spilling my coffee. Interesting discussion re the sound of the library. The lack of that overprocessed sound is actually making me more interested in the library! Much easier to add than to remove that.

Btw, is this a new length record of these videos, Daniel?


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## korgscrew (Dec 2, 2013)

Daniel James @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> The 10% thing I am talking about is how, when you slam that midi keyboard note full force the drum doesn't feel (to me , you are allowed to disagree  ) like it is matching your intention. Feels like its hitting hard but not like the player is trying to rip through the skin face first....if that makes sense.
> -DJ



I remember a Hans quote about percussion. It goes along these lines..

"I don't want them to hit the drum as hard as they can, the best sounds, are the quiet sounds. Just turn them up!"

I haven't got it word for word, but it was along those lines..


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## Maestro77 (Dec 2, 2013)

DJ, I see you've got a copy of NI's Action Strikes in your library pane. Any chance you'll be doing an overview video for that?


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## Ed (Dec 2, 2013)

korgscrew @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> I remember a Hans quote about percussion. It goes along these lines..
> 
> "I don't want them to hit the drum as hard as they can, the best sounds, are the quiet sounds. Just turn them up!"
> 
> I haven't got it word for word, but it was along those lines..



Im pretty sure this was about getting drums to sound big and how he was saying turning up the volume of lower dynamics can sound more "epic".

I think I know what Dan means. I remember back when Tonehammer started Im sure I remember Troels and Mike talking about breaking drums they would hit them so hard to get that hardest dynamic.


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## korgscrew (Dec 2, 2013)

For those interested in the ambient gallery mics...

http://youtu.be/lL4kJL_NDR0


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## Daniel James (Dec 2, 2013)

Ed @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> korgscrew @ Mon Dec 02 said:
> 
> 
> > I remember a Hans quote about percussion. It goes along these lines..
> ...



Yeah you can most certainly get a really solid boom by playing soft and turning up. I was talking about that sort of 'crack' you get when you smash the living shit out of a drum. Like Ed said, this is the sort of thing you get from the 8dio percs.

But I love HZ Perc for what it is. And I have the 8dio percs to layer so I am all set. Was more making the observation for those who might not have that extra top layer 

And yes I plan on doing an Action Strikes video!

-DJ


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## korgscrew (Dec 2, 2013)

Yeah, I see what you mean. But after writing some tracks with HZP I've found a new love for these "Professional Hits" as I'm calling them. Hit with love, not hate 

My favourite at the moment is Alan's version of the Paper Djuns. They have a kind if military drive to them, and that ear pleasing stereo sound of the ensemble.


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## Dan Mott (Dec 2, 2013)

Makes sense that this library doesn't have that 'crack' thing. In fact, I don't really like drums with too much crack and those are the vel layers I do not use. However, if that's what you are going for then 8dio, ect are great samples for that.

If you listen to most of Hans drum work from his past movies, his drums are actually not that bright. To me they are more on the muffled side, which is why I can turn his music up really loud and I don't get ear fatigue or pain from the intense high end crack. This perc library has grown on me because most perc libs have that intense crack in the higher register that sounds very typical sample style. 

For these drums, I guess bumping up your fader in the mixer would help. If you started playing somewhere in the middle at a nice level, coming out of your speakers, then the higher velocities will sound like they have more power because they are louder.

The round robin thing was weird to me also, as well as the timing of some intruments.


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## korgscrew (Dec 2, 2013)

Dan, if you do want the crack at some point, the sticks and puilles will get you there


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## Ed (Dec 2, 2013)

Everytime I hear people say crack I just think, *"you know what, that crack is really moorish"*


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## ETMuz (Dec 2, 2013)

I too love the unprocessed sound of the drum. I just favor the natural drum sound.


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## Daniel James (Dec 2, 2013)

For the record...I love the natural drum sound too. Like I say, its perfect for soundtrack scoring whereas lots of libraries these days focus on the big and epic 

-DJ


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## ETMuz (Dec 2, 2013)

Daniel James @ Mon Dec 02 said:


> For the record...I love the natural drum sound too. Like I say, its perfect for soundtrack scoring whereas lots of libraries these days focus on the big and epic
> 
> -DJ



Right. Thanks for your video btw.


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## Polarity (Dec 3, 2013)

Daniel James @ Tue 03 Dec said:


> For the record...I love the natural drum sound too. Like I say, its perfect for soundtrack scoring whereas lots of libraries these days focus on the big and epic
> 
> -DJ



So it's still a good thing if I'm going to get HZP 01 and Damage this week...
even if I have to get deeper with your Alpha Project drum/percussion sounds.


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## davidgary73 (Dec 3, 2013)

korgscrew @ Tue Dec 03 said:


> Daniel James @ Mon Dec 02 said:
> 
> 
> > The 10% thing I am talking about is how, when you slam that midi keyboard note full force the drum doesn't feel (to me , you are allowed to disagree  ) like it is matching your intention. Feels like its hitting hard but not like the player is trying to rip through the skin face first....if that makes sense.
> ...



Found Hans post on percussion on this thread @ http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 434a0c3c32

Looking forward to HZ01 Stereo mics and additional mics


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## Daniel James (Dec 3, 2013)

Polarity @ Tue Dec 03 said:


> Daniel James @ Tue 03 Dec said:
> 
> 
> > For the record...I love the natural drum sound too. Like I say, its perfect for soundtrack scoring whereas lots of libraries these days focus on the big and epic
> ...



With both of them together you will have all bases covered 

-DJ


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## tmm (Dec 3, 2013)

davidgary73 @ Tue Dec 03 said:


> Found Hans post on percussion on this thread @ http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 434a0c3c32
> 
> Looking forward to HZ01 Stereo mics and additional mics



Great post, thanks for finding / sharing!

In a nutshell, it sounds like:
- Use your ears, and take all parameters (instruments, musicians, room) into account when writing
- Sample your own instruments when possible
- Don't try to polish turd samples / remove useless libraries from your toolkit

Re: "why don't more musicians sample their own instruments", I know my take on that is, I don't have the huge $ invested in equipment that the sample developers do (ex: I don't have a Neve console or countless thousands of $ invested in microphones), nor do I have the Kontakt scripting know-how. The latter I could pick up if I applied myself, of course (I'm a programmer in 'real life'), but the former will ever elude me until I start (if ever) getting paid for my music. I have little to no cash flow to apply to this aside from what I can make buying / reselling 'real' musical equipment I've accumulated over the years.

That, and I don't have access to the priceless instruments sampled in many of these libraries.

Re: his take on reverb - agreed, re: musicians responding to the reverb, but it doesn't have to be 'real' reverb for that to take place, so long as you can monitor the signal you're recording.


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 3, 2013)

Daniel James @ Tue Dec 03 said:


> Polarity @ Tue Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel James @ Tue 03 Dec said:
> ...



... there is no such thing :!:


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## germancomponist (Dec 3, 2013)

With all the discussion about libraries I want to reiterate how important it is that you can hear in a well treated room with the best monitors!


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