# IMac Pro or Mac pro, this is the question?



## berto (Dec 23, 2020)

I can use my iMac 2015 27inch to cook some pizza, as it gets as hot as a wooden oven. I am saving a lot of money on heating, but i can't even get one vocal track running without feeling like in a hot sauna....

I am considering iMac pro or Mac pro, but i don't really know. The budget is around $8/9k. Considering the M1 will come out, but i don't know if Big Sur will still be a problem... what shall i do? Also, will any new mac come with Big Sur, or not? 

Thank you to whom will be kind to help me in this decision

Happy Christmas, by the way.

B.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Dec 23, 2020)

With that budget, get the tower! I just picked up the 10-core 10900K iMac and so far it's been great, but I do enjoy a nice thin crust pizza at the end of the day. There are rumors of a half-height Apple Silicon Mac Pro, but it's hard to imagine all the compatibility with pro audio software being sorted out too quickly. The tower will get you at least 5 years and by then the problems with the new chips will be sorted.


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## jbuhler (Dec 23, 2020)

The iMac pro is an older machine now. i have a late 2015 i7 iMac that I just replaced with a 2020 i9 iMac and it makes a world of difference in terms of the fan not coming on. I have 128GB RAM installed. For audio many say that the top i7 iMac is working well. Folks who have the MacPros seem to love them.


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 23, 2020)

I'd buy a 2nd user intel Mac to keep me going until the new high end silicon rolls out.

Leave it until after Christmas and I'll bet there are some real bargains as people start to sell off their old intel machines. I saw an 8 Core Coffee grinder Mac Pro with 64Gb RAM the other day for £ 1350.00 and they are only going to go lower.

I'm still driving a 2015 iMac i7 4Ghz with 48gb RAM, but I don't seem to have any trouble with overheating - but then I mainly use VI's. I'm waiting to see whether I'll be replacing it with another high end Mac, or whether I'll be moving to PC next year.....


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## gsilbers (Dec 23, 2020)

Same here. Ended up getting a Mac intemini 64gb ram. Very powerful, no heat or fan issues.

waiting for the next powerful m1 chips.


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## JonS (Dec 23, 2020)

Definitely get a Mac Pro over the old iMac Pro.


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## Zardoz (Dec 23, 2020)

Considering Apple has made it clear they’ll be moving all Macs to Apple silicon in the next 24 months, it would be crazy IMO to drop that kind of cash on an Intel Mac right now. Given the incredible performance and thermals of the M1 chip, I’m very excited to see what they can do in a pro machine.


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## emilio_n (Dec 23, 2020)

As someone said iMac Pro is an old machine now. For music, the 2020 iMac will be better and for sure much cheaper. I am in your exactly same situation and I a trying to wait until the new I am with Apple Silicon.


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## Wunderhorn (Dec 23, 2020)

There are a lot of individual factors for someone deciding on a new machine. It is hard to give a blanket statement as a piece of advice. In my world it is either Mac Pro or move to a Windows PC workstation.

To me it is key that I can expand the machine (PCI slots), not just externally. Flexibility equals longevity. In the PC world you can find workstations that don't need fans at all. Not only does it mean no noise, it also means less corrosion and again a longer life.


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## berto (Dec 23, 2020)

thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

i am bit confused

so the iMac i9 is better than the iMac Pro? at half the price?

Also i am concerned with BigSur.... are all the apple store mac coming with BSur, even the Mac Pro ?



thanks


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## el-bo (Dec 23, 2020)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> There are rumors of a half-height Apple Silicon Mac Pro, but it's hard to imagine all the compatibility with pro audio software being sorted out too quickly.



There may be resistance from certain developers, if they decide that this current double compatibility drive (OS and Silicon) is the last straw. But reports from other developers, and the general swiftness in which some software has already been declared SOC compatible makes me inclined to believe that it’s going to a smoother transition than would have been expected.

Of course, the more hardware and software one has, the more one might be advised to hold off.


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## Fitz (Dec 23, 2020)

Zardoz said:


> Considering Apple has made it clear they’ll be moving all Macs to Apple silicon in the next 24 months, it would be crazy IMO to drop that kind of cash on an Intel Mac right now. Given the incredible performance and thermals of the M1 chip, I’m very excited to see what they can do in a pro machine.


this. Go PC in the meantime or wait it out. Do you want to buy an outdated machine for 10K?


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## rnb_2 (Dec 23, 2020)

I would agree that the iMac Pro is probably not the way to go right now - a prominent developer is actually thinking about trading his in and just using an M1 MacBook Air until more powerful Apple Silicon machines arrive - common day-to-day tasks are just noticeably faster on M1. On the iMac Pro, the RAM isn't user-accessible, so you have to pay Apple's RAM prices on top of the already-higher base price vs. the 2020 iMac. The 8-core i7 2020 iMac benchmarks slightly faster than the 8-core (no longer available new from Apple) iMac Pro, and the 10-core i9 2020 iMac is only slightly slower than the 10-core iMac Pro.

While a case can be made for the long-term expandability of the Mac Pro, I think the safe bet right now is the 2020 iMac with 3rd party RAM. You come in way under your budget, so you can easily consider it a stop-gap, 3-year solution that bridges the uncertain next 24 months, while also solving your short-term problem.


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## khollister (Dec 23, 2020)

berto said:


> thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
> 
> i am bit confused
> 
> ...


 
I have an iMac Pro, and if my machine died tomorrow I would certainly get an iMac i9 at this point in time. However, there are 2 areas of concern IMHO with the iMac...

The iMP has 2 TB busses (2 ports each). The iMac still only has 1 bus, 2 ports. If you ever want to use an external display along with substantial TB SSD storage, you may start running out of bandwidth. If you have a display and any TB2 devices, you also loose the ability to connect USB 3.1/gen 2 devices at the end of a TB3 chain (monitors are single ended).
While it seems the latest iMac's are acceptable from a fan standpoint, my iMP NEVER ramps the fans up that I can hear. It is dead quiet all the time.
#1 is the show stopper for me. I have a lot of TB stuff (including an older TB2 UAD satellite) and USB-C 3.1/G2 devices, so dropping back to 2 ports on a single bus would be a real problem.


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## jbuhler (Dec 23, 2020)

khollister said:


> I have an iMac Pro, and if my machine died tomorrow I would certainly get an iMac i9 at this point in time. However, there are 2 areas of concern IMHO with the iMac...
> 
> The iMP has 2 TB busses (2 ports each). The iMac still only has 1 bus, 2 ports. If you ever want to use an external display along with substantial TB SSD storage, you may start running out of bandwidth. If you have a display and any TB2 devices, you also loose the ability to connect USB 3.1/gen 2 devices at the end of a TB3 chain (monitors are single ended).
> While it seems the latest iMac's are acceptable from a fan standpoint, my iMP NEVER ramps the fans up that I can hear. It is dead quiet all the time.
> #1 is the show stopper for me. I have a lot of TB stuff (including an older TB2 UAD satellite) and USB-C 3.1/G2 devices, so dropping back to 2 ports on a single bus would be a real problem.


So far I’ve not had issues with TB3. One port has a TB3 hub that adds 5 USB 3, 2 USBC, a TB3 through, ethernet, and DisplayPort. That drives several SSDs in USB3 enclosures As well as a second monitor. The other port carries TB3 Thunderbay with DisplayPort and TB3 through, that connects to TB2 Thunderbay mini. Currently the TB2 through on Thunderbay mini connects to a third monitor, but I plan to move that to the Displayport out on the Thunderbay, freeing up the TB2 at the end of the chain. I’m not having any bandwidth issue with this setup, despite having 10 SSDs and two 2k monitors connected via Thunderbolt. I’ll add i used this configuration on a 2015 iMac with TB2 and it also showed no sign of hitting the bandwidth limit, so I‘m not too concerned.


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## berto (Dec 23, 2020)

Fitz said:


> this. Go PC in the meantime or wait it out. Do you want to buy an outdated machine for 10K?


no i am using LogicPro... and i am a PC illiterate, and somehow i don't really like windows...so... sorry


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## khollister (Dec 23, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> So far I’ve not had issues with TB3. One port has a TB3 hub that adds 5 USB 3, 2 USBC, a TB3 through, ethernet, and DisplayPort. That drives several SSDs in USB3 enclosures As well as a second monitor. The other port carries TB3 Thunderbay with DisplayPort and TB3 through, that connects to TB2 Thunderbay mini. Currently the TB2 through on Thunderbay mini connects to a third monitor, but I plan to move that to the Displayport out on the Thunderbay, freeing up the TB2 at the end of the chain. I’m not having any bandwidth issue with this setup, despite having 10 SSDs and two 2k monitors connected via Thunderbolt. I’ll add i used this configuration on a 2015 iMac with TB2 and it also showed no sign of hitting the bandwidth limit, so I‘m not too concerned.



Displayport 1.3/1.4 has 32 Gbps of raw bandwidth and can support 2 4kx60 Hz monitors. SATA SSD's can use up to 5 Gbps each and a TB attached NVMe SSD 4X that. I have no doubt that lashup works, but I doubt you are getting optimal performance from any of the SSD's. Never mind the performance losses in the TB dock, USB enclosures, etc.


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## jbuhler (Dec 23, 2020)

khollister said:


> Displayport 1.3/1.4 has 32 Gbps of raw bandwidth and can support 2 4kx60 Hz monitors. SATA SSD's can use up to 5 Gbps each and a TB attached NVMe SSD 4X that. I have no doubt that lashup works, but I doubt you are getting optimal performance from any of the SSD's. Never mind the performance losses in the TB dock, USB enclosures, etc.


The SSDs are all SATA. No bottlenecks at this point. Optimal performance is not as important as reliable good enough performance. And with iMacs and Mac Minis you don’t have any option but to lash up. Are the USB3 ports that go into the non-pro iMacs separate busses or on a single buss or two busses?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 23, 2020)

Why does the iMac get so hot? If it's doing that with a single track, something is wrong.

Those things actually can be repaired - they're not totally disposable. And it sounds like it would be worth it even if it seems expensive, certainly compared to dropping $8-9K on a new machine in the middle of Apple's transition.

If you're in Los Angeles, Les Mannus (Mannco) in Glendale is the guy to take it to.


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## khollister (Dec 23, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> The SSDs are all SATA. No bottlenecks at this point. Optimal performance is not as important as reliable good enough performance. And with iMacs and Mac Minis you don’t have any option but to lash up. Are the USB3 ports that go into the non-pro iMacs separate busses or on a single buss or two busses?



All Macs since TB1 have 2 ports (connectors) per TB bus/controller. So the 2 USB-C/TB3 connectors on your iMac share a single 40 Gbps TB3 pipe. The iMac Pro has 4 connectors/2 busses for a total of 80 Gbps. THe Macbook Pros with 4 USB-C/TB connectors also have 2 busses like the iMP. It was disappointing that Apple didn't upgrade the iMac similarly.


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## jbuhler (Dec 23, 2020)

khollister said:


> All Macs since TB1 have 2 ports (connectors) per TB bus/controller. So the 2 USB-C/TB3 connectors on your iMac share a single 40 Gbps TB3 pipe. The iMac Pro has 4 connectors/2 busses for a total of 80 Gbps. THe Macbook Pros with 4 USB-C/TB connectors also have 2 busses like the iMP. It was disappointing that Apple didn't upgrade the iMac similarly.


I wasn’t wondering about the two TB3 ports. I was wondering about the four USB3 ports. Do they come off one buss or multiple busses? Or are they also feeding off the TB3 buss?


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## khollister (Dec 23, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I wasn’t wondering about the two TB3 ports. I was wondering about the four USB3 ports. Do they come off one buss or multiple busses? Or are they also feeding off the TB3 buss?



Oops ... I believe (less sure about this than the TB architecture) they also are 2 ports per USB3 controller/bus. I know they are (at least were as of a year or two ago) not using the TB controller as in a dock.

Scratch that - just took a look at the System Report for my iMP. 4 USB ports are connect to a hub that is connected to the T2 chip, so a single controller/bus. I know as of several years ago the Trashcan MP and older Mini's had multiple USB controllers. I guess they gave that up after TB3/USB-C, figuring the USB2/3 devices likely to be used would be lower performance items.


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## jbuhler (Dec 23, 2020)

khollister said:


> Oops ... I believe (less sure about this than the TB architecture) they also are 2 ports per USB3 controller/bus. I know they are (at least were as of a year or two ago) not using the TB controller as in a dock.


Thanks!


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## khollister (Dec 23, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Thanks!



I just edited my post - see above.


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## jbuhler (Dec 23, 2020)

khollister said:


> I just edited my post - see above.


So everything is funneling through a single buss? In any case I haven’t yet had any signs that I’m close to filling the available bandwidth. But I’m also not trying to run a 4K external monitor.


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 23, 2020)

If your iMac is getting hot running very light loads, then something is wrong. Most likely it is just dust accumulation in the fan over the past 5 years.

Before buying a new machine, take yours apart and clean it. It is not difficult, you just need good instructions and to take your time.

iFixIt has tool kits with everything you need, and they also sell new adhesive strips for the display when you put it back together. And step by step instructions.

If it doesn't have an internal SSD, this would be a good time to upgrade that as well.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 23, 2020)

Justin L. Franks said:


> If it doesn't have an SSD, this would be a good time to upgrade that as well



We had one put into my wife's 2009 iMac a few years ago. It needed a free utility to stop the fan from running amok.

Meanwhile, that machine needs a new video card. There are videos on YouTube showing how to do it, but the fact that it's a $400 repair makes me think it would be an $800 hassle.


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