# Some "reprogramming EWQLSO" fun / sample editing



## Alex W (Jun 23, 2005)

EWQLSO is a great library, I've been using it almost daily since it was released. However, I've noticed a few things about it that bug me so I've started editing some of the patches in Kontakt for a bit of fun. (and practice)

The first example is the 6 french horns modwheel x-fade patch. I've been using the King Arthur soundtrack by Hans Zimmer as a reference here, as I've always been amazed at how huge he gets the french horns to sound.

I found the EWQLSO horns to be great in most respects - the Staccatos are powerful and effective, and I love the "Port" patch, it's really only the modwheel patches that I don't like. There are some strange filters on it that I feel stick out a bit when you x-fade. I also felt that the FF samples, especially on higher registers, are too weak and don't really cut through the mix. This is actually something that I've found with every french horn sample I've had. EWQLSO, SAM horns, even the good ol' Roland orchestral family samples. 

The last point, and this really applies to all of the samples in EWQLSO, is that even on the farthest mic position there's still not enough reverb. :shock:...:roll:...

So in addition to editing the FF higher registers I also added some FX. In signal path order, an EQ, a compressor / limiter and a hall reverb were added.

Ok, the mp3s.

http://www.alxproductions.com/hans_horns.mp3 - is the reference I used for the horns. I know some people actually hate this kind of sound. Still, love it or hate it, its sheer power is undeniable .

http://www.alxproductions.com/original_horns.mp3 - here is EWQLSO playing the above phrase, untouched. (using the modwheel x-fade patch.)

http://www.alxproductions.com/edited_horns.mp3 - and here is the same phrase played by the edited patch.

This isn't a final edit btw, just thought I'd post something about it to get some feedback. Is it a worthwhile improvement? Playing them both side by side, I guess there isn't a world of difference - it's mainly the lack of reverb and FF "cutting power" in the high registers that made me want to edit this patch. 

If anyone felt the same about the EWQLSO horns, and is interested in exactly what I did, I'd be more than happy to post a more detailed msg about the actual programming changes and specific FX/EQ parameters / values.

cheers.


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## Alex W (Jun 23, 2005)

Also, anyone - please feel free to share your own sample editing / creating experiences. Have you ever made a sow's ear anything more than a sow's ear? Doesn't even have to be sample based, can be synths, anything.

I've never really delved much into sample editing myself, and when it comes to synths I usually just dial up a preset and go for it, so I'm really interested to hear of other people's endeavours in this field.


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## Niah (Jun 23, 2005)

I have the King Arthur soundtrack and I was always amazed byt the power of that horns.

As for the edited patch I believe it's sounds much better particulary on the high registers. 

Too bad I don't own EWQLSO :cry:


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## choc0thrax (Jun 23, 2005)

I'm a Final Fantasy spirits within man when it comes to powerful brass but I think you improved the sounds of the horns here. So uhh what did you do? 8)


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## José Herring (Jun 23, 2005)

Yeah Alex. Sounds very musical except for that clip when the release trail cuts in.

What did you do? do tell or atleast pass it along to Nick and Doug for an update.

But sounds much more natural.

Jose


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## Scott Cairns (Jun 24, 2005)

Hey mate, what you've done sounds great. Did you use a compressor to raise the volume of the softer notes? You can really notice the pp or mp notes or whatever you call them.


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## Lex (Jun 24, 2005)

Sounds great, more fluid, no sucking attacks, and better color..

aLex


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## José Herring (Jun 24, 2005)

leogardini said:


> ...I posted some new programs on the old QL NS forum , but now it?s gone :( !!!



Post them here. Let's check 'em out.

Jose


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## ComposerDude (Jun 24, 2005)

Alex, great job. Very interested in the mods you made; please post.

-Peter


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## Nick Phoenix (Jun 24, 2005)

I've been working on the new PRO horns programs and have completely solved these problems. PRO has better release trails for the horns and better velocities that get really big without being too bright, as well as QLegato which connects everything. Unfortunately this will be a PRO upgrade thing only.


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## Nick Phoenix (Jun 24, 2005)

leogardini said:


> Sounds very good...I think we should share our experiences with new QLSO programs...I don?t like the way Nick program the legatos and many other things :roll: ...
> ...I posted some new programs on the old QL NS forum , but now it?s gone :( !!!



Legato is a relative term, BUT when you are trying to make non-legato samples sound like legato, you have to make hard choices which will not appeal to many. You can really get a legato sound, but the attacks will sound really fake. I've given up and recorded the new samples instead. QLegato works REALLY REALLY well. Just remember it's not slides(although we have those to a certain degree), it's just beautifully connected legato. Sounds like really good players. And the best part is you won't have to do any editing or tweaking or note overlaps.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 24, 2005)

Oh the pro upgrades which are coming in 6 days? Look forward to the delay announcement. 8)


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## Alex W (Jun 24, 2005)

Cheers for the feedback all. Ok, I just need to take some screenshots and post exactly what I did in kontakt. I'll get right on it a bit later when I've got some more free time.


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## Nick Phoenix (Jun 24, 2005)

Alex, Sounds good. Did you push the sample start times in, change the attack and release values and add verb, or something more crazy?? Also, if you are using Kontakt, you should cahnge the filters back to 1 pole, as they originally were. Kompakt doesn't support 1 pole. :cry:


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## TheoKrueger (Jun 25, 2005)

Hey, very cool stuff there!

I love re-programming Gold myself and have made some interesting patches.

A good "el cheapo" way to get legato in strings is to load the patch you want in one channel, and on a second channel load a different strings patch that will have the Kontakt "Glide" modulator set to a relatively short value ( or even time-controlled with a CC ). First of all you gotta set all the start-times to the point after the Bow attacks to get a really smooth sound. Then you set the second channel volume to around 60% vs the Main channel and you set the Midi input time to -20 or so the glide feature comes in before the attack of a new note of the first channel which is louder.

And one more thing.

For all staccatos in Gold: Copy paste the main group without the releases 4 times giving a total of 5 groups. What you do after is set Kontakt 2 to "View selected group only" and also set "move root note" to OFF.
Afterwards, you leave the First group as is. Second group and all its samples go 1 semitone lower, 3rd group goes 2 semitones lower. The other 2 groups go 1 and 2 semitones higher respectively.
Last thing, set "Edit all groups" to ON, and select "Group start options -> Random".
Well, that gives you 5 notes random notes for all staccatos. The repetitions sound amazing and live, especially for pizzicato, brass, woodwinds... everywhere. There is not much quality loss on the new groups since libraries sampled in 2 semitone intervals sound good too. So all is cool 

I am preparing a CD based on "Custom" EWQLSO Gold lately and it uses all sorts of these little tricks. Hopefuly i'll have some stuff to share with you guys soon.


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## Jon Paouli Trapek (Jun 25, 2005)

Nice programming Alex. Much smoother. Do post on your secret.


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## Leandro Gardini (Jun 25, 2005)

TheoKrueger said:


> Hey, very cool stuff there!
> 
> I love re-programming Gold myself and have made some interesting patches.
> 
> ...


I described something similar using pitch-bend a long time ago on NS...the thread now is gone now but I was happy to see many people working in this way after I post...this technique can be used for simulating 2 , 3 , 4 and 5 intruments playing unissono too witch gives you a much better sound when you don?t have the ensemble size you need!!!


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## Alex W (Jun 27, 2005)

Ok, here's what I did.

There are a few dynamic x-fade patches to choose from, but the patch I ended up using was "6FH SUS XFD DYN LEG." I'm using Platinum, not sure if gold has that exact patch, can someone confirm this for me? The basic idea will still work on any of the other x-fade patches, but I'd just like to know.

This might sound like a bit of a hack, but bear with me. I really wanted to get that "high brassy cutting" sound on the higher registers. I noticed that it was very cutting up until you go past G3 on the keyboard. G#3 was also cutting on FF, but I didn't like the sample. So I opened the mapping editor, viewing only the FF layer and deleted all of the samples starting at G#3 up to the highest note (F4). I then selected G3 and stretched it all the way up to F4. In other words, that 1 FF sample has been dragged for almost a whole octave. I gave it a try, and it doesn't even sound too bad solo'd as you can hear - in the mix it's even nicer. The reason being, I guess, is that 6 French horns at FF creates a pretty simple waveform - sort of like a sawtooth wave. Plus, you haven't altered the p or mf layers so they are still sampled chromatically all the way to F4 up and play underneath.

I also then chopped n changed a few notes around in the mf and p layers, but this isn't really necessary - more a personal taste thing. Give it a go if you feel like it.

The FX I used in signal order: I used a multiband compressor / limiter to keep the 250~500hz range frequencies under control - this range needs the most compression.

The EQ'ing isn't final, had to use 2 just to get a few more bands, here's the pics so you can see the values.











Then it runs through a mastering plugin.






The 'verb isn't final either (would love to try convolution), but here's a pic of the settings I used.






On top of all that there's another EQ with a slight rolloff on the highs.

I also put the MIDI file up for anyone interested to see the expression controllers in action.

http://www.alxproductions.com/horns.mid

any further questions, let me know.


Theo - great ideas, looking forward to trying 'em out myself.


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## Alex W (Jun 27, 2005)

Nick Phoenix said:


> Alex, Sounds good. Did you push the sample start times in, change the attack and release values and add verb, or something more crazy?? Also, if you are using Kontakt, you should cahnge the filters back to 1 pole, as they originally were. Kompakt doesn't support 1 pole. :cry:



Cheers Nick. Nah I didn't change anything on the attack / release. All the expressive control is done with the mod wheel. There's a link to the MIDI file above if you're interested to check it out. Interesting what you said about the filters - they were already on 1 pole for me when I opened the file for editing. :?


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## Alex W (Jul 4, 2005)

So did anyone find the pics / midi file useful at all?


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## Thonex (Jul 4, 2005)

Alex W said:


> So did anyone find the pics / midi file useful at all?



Absolutely. Even though I didn't try your technique yet, you made it very clear and concise.

Thanks for sharing all the hard work.

T


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