# Solo Strings, CineStrings Solo, Spitfire Sacconi or?



## Shamgar (Dec 25, 2017)

I'm in the market for a good solo string library.

During the Black Friday sales I spent all my budget on mostly Spitfire's Black Friday bundle (SSS, SCS, SSS Evo) and didn't get a solo string library and now I've saved up some extra budget (albeit not that much and might want to hold out a bit longer)

I now have a 40% discount coupon for Spitfire Sacconi valid until December 31st, but CineStrings Solo currently has a 30% discount as well, so I could get either of them at a similar price of around € 300.

*Reasons for me to get Sacconi:* 
I already have SSS & SCS, so might fit well with those libraries.
lots of articulations
Spitfire won't hand out such huge discounts that often

*Reasons not to get Sacconi:* 
SCS legato doesn't play well straight out of the box (slow transitions that sound very offkey) and I fear the same might go for Sacconi

*Reasons for me to get CineStrings Solo:* 
I got the Tina Guo legato patch, which plays like a dream out of the box and I guess their Solo library has similar scripting.
It also has solo bass

*Reasons for me not to get CineStrings solo*:
A bit less articulations than Sacconi
Different sound than SSS & SCS
I expect another 30% discount during Spring (when I actually have more money to spend)


In the same price range there is also Cinematic Strings Solo, which sounds decent, but I understood it's a bit laggy? No discount here, so no hurry in getting it right now.


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## jamwerks (Dec 25, 2017)

I'm going to pick up Sacconi (Thanks SF for the 40% off). Just listened again to the videos. Can't find a weak aspect in the whole library and lots to love: Playable patch, very nimble legato, lots of arts, couldn't hear any phasing issues, time-machine patches, two stereo mixes...

I wouldn't even consider CinsSamples Solo Strings.


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## SoundChris (Dec 25, 2017)

Well i tried *Spitfire Sacconi *live @ Frankfurt Musikmesse. Even there are a lot of libraries from Spitfire that i think are absolutely great that one didnt really impress me tbh.

I also got *CineStrings Solo *but wasnt really happy with it. The reason was that (like you) after Tina Guo Legato i expected a very emotional sound - and for my taste this just doesnt feel that way. I dont regret the purchase because i think that for Classical and Baroque music (Bach-Stuff etc) this has exactly the right sound. Also there only is bow-change Legato (ok there is portamento but i am talking of a normal slured legato that is missing here).

I also got *Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings First Chair *which i really cant stand - one of the very few libraries i really regret having purchased. While there are a few patches that stil are useful IMO I had massive problems with phasing / artefacts which finally made me even delete it from my Drive to get more room for more usefull libraries ...

Another library that i got is the *Cinematic Studio Solo Strings*. I am also not really blown away from them. They are VERY nice if you use them as First Chair option in addition to Cinematic Studio Strings to get more details and definition. But the cons are that it doesnt seem possible to play fast passages with sustains / legato - you have to use the shorts (these are awesome btw!) which sometimes isnt what you need in a certain situation. Also for my ears there often is a problem with the layers / phasing (?). On the other side this library has got a very emotional tone which i really love. So in the end my feelings are mixed here. I dont regret the purchase, but there are aspects that could have been better IMO.

Then i have got the *Chris Hein Solo Violin / Italian Violin*. IMO an impressive piece of software. The tone has improved a lot from the original Violin to the Italian one. I am stil not really happy with the tone. BUT: This instrument is my go-to option when i need special violin performances lets say in Jazz, World Music, Gypsy and so on because it is so darn flexible. For a classical quartett it stil doesnt totally convince me tbh. But for Jazz and Gypsy stuff its ultra amazing!

Finally i got the *Intimate Strings by Embertone *and the Joshua Bell Violin. While the Friedlander, Blakus and Fischer are not bad i always had problems to get the vibrato right. Also I always found that the dynamic range isnt that impressive.

The very only solo strings product so far that really totally convinced me i s the *Embertone Joshua Bell*. The only problem is: Right now there is just a Violin availiable. But once they got their Cello (maybe Yo Yo Ma? Fingers crossed!) and Viola with that new engine and technique is out this is THE go to solo string solution IMO.

Just my 2 cents.


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## GtrString (Dec 25, 2017)

Just to add to the thread with the above mentioned options, as I am in a similar situation as the OP - there are also Lass First Chair and Spitfire Solo Strings (v2 are in development, and might be worth the wait). Others may chime in with first hand experiences on those.


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## holywilly (Dec 25, 2017)

How about solo strings from Audio Modeling?


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## Casiquire (Dec 25, 2017)

I'd like to add Chris Hein into the mix! CS Solo Strings is also nice.


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## Vik (Dec 25, 2017)

Shamgar said:


> I'm in the market for a good solo string library.


Do you need solo bass? Solo Cello? Solo viola? Or do you plan to use this as a first chair function with other string libraries? If so, you may not need 5 dedicated _solo_ instruments. If you mainly need the violin as a melody/solo instrument, and the others as first chairs/a way to add some detail and edge to ensembles, why not just go for the best solo violin, out there (many will suggest that this is Joshua Bell), and monitor what's coming the next year (Emotional Viola, for instance, by Harmonic Subtones - the company behind Emotional Cello). Sorry for the long sentence.


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## FinGael (Dec 25, 2017)

I have both Spitfire Sacconi and Cinestrings Solo. Like 'em both and have found use for them, but more often as layering tools and accompanying strings. Personally I think that Cinematic Studio Solo Strings work better than those two as an all-around solo strings or quartet library (If that is your need).

The samples in Sacconi are also quite wet with a lot of room sound. It can be a problem, especially in solo use - to me they generally work better in traditional string quartet writing.

In my opinion there are better options for solo string lines than those two libraries. Cinestrings Solo needs more legato types and flexibility in articulations, and Sacconi is suffering from the same disease; to me it is not flexible enough for exposed solo string lines.


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## manuhz (Dec 25, 2017)

I have all the mentioned libraries and IMO Virharmonics Solo Strings are the most flexible and realistic option right now. They sound and play really fantastic. Very excited about the next releases: Violin exp 3, Viola and Cello exp 2.


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## Shamgar (Dec 25, 2017)

Vik said:


> Do you need solo bass? Solo Cello? Solo viola? Or do you plan to use this as a first chair function with other string libraries? If so, you may not need 5 dedicated _solo_ instruments. If you mainly need the violin as a melody/solo instrument, and the others as first chairs/a way to add some detail and edge to ensembles, why not just go for the best solo violin, out there (many will suggest that this is Joshua Bell), and monitor what's coming the next year (Emotional Viola, for instance, by Harmonic Subtones - the company behind Emotional Cello). Sorry for the long sentence.



My intention is to use them as first chairs, but also in small quartets (or other ensembles (like piano, violin, cello + acoustic guitar))).
Personally I'm not a huge fan of violins at the moment (something to do with the high protuding sounds my 1 year old is able to make when distressed) and I have always preferred cello (which is why I'm trying to learn to play it).

Everyone thanks for all the input, Chris Hein's library seemed interesting to me, but is much more expensive. Haven't really looked into Lass First Chair, Virhamonics or Audio Modeling solo strings yet, so it's clear to me that I definately need to invest some more time researching & comparing the various Solo String libraries out there and not let myself be rushed into a purchase by some limited-time discount.


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## Casiquire (Dec 25, 2017)

Definitely don't rush it. Sometimes you'll find one and just know...this is the one. If you get that feeling go for it!


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## robgb (Dec 25, 2017)

Audio Modeling SWAM strings. Sound great. Play like butter.


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## PaulBrimstone (Dec 25, 2017)

Also be aware the Sacconi cello does not have a full upper solo range. It sounds lovely but is limited for solo work.


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## meradium (Dec 26, 2017)

Sacconi user here: I can confirm the missing range of the Cello frequent make me use the S-word (for Germans) or the F-word when using it. Such a shame. I also yet have to find the right balance of the offered mics to have it sit nicely in the mix. They all tend to be quite roomy no matter what you dial in... The vibrato can be a bit excessive sometimes.


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## jamwerks (Dec 26, 2017)

When SF speaks of revisiting Sacconi, that probably includes adding the high range of the cello, and who knows, maybe even adding in a double bass.


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## muziksculp (Dec 26, 2017)

Hi,

Why are *Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings First Chair *not very popular ? What seems to be the problem with them ?

I really like the way they sound in the demos they posted, If there are certain issues with these strings, maybe OT will improve them via an update in the future, If there are major issues with them, have they been notified about these issues ? OT are quite good with making sure their products are top-notch, and work as intended most of the time.

Just curious to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## muk (Dec 26, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> I really like the way they sound in the demos they posted, If there are certain issues with these strings, maybe OT will improve them via an update in the future,



Waiting for that since the release one and a half years ago. But it never happened. And the problems this libraries has can't be corrected by a software update either. It would need rerecordings, which are very unikely to happen. I purchased BST First Chairs because I liked the sound of it very much, and to test the waters with Orchestral Tools. I haven't bought anyhting else from them, and BST First Chairs is the reason why.

I wrote a bit about my problems with the library some time ago:

'For me this libraries is riddled with so many inconsistencies that I am constantly tear my hair trying to make it sound even remotely close to what I have in mind. For one, the volumes are inconsistent between the instruments, between the articulations of each instrument, and sometimes even for different notes of the same articulation. It takes ages to correct for all this in a mockup.
Then the players apparently had very different playing styles, and different notions of the articulations. What is a spiccato on the cello is a marcato on the second violin. The short articulations on the violins and viola don't even exist for the cello, because this player held the notes much longer. It's weird that OT didn't correct that during the recording. And the list goes on. For layering - and to be fair that is how the library is marketed - it's less of a problem because you can mask most of them.

Making a mockup of a string quartet is hard and takes long enough even if you don't have to fight all these inconsistencies (that should never have made it into a professional quality sample library in that number in my opinion). And with BST First Chairs for me it takes thrice as long, and needs many compromises along the way. So I usually just give up in frustration and reach back to VSL Solo Strings (the sound of which I don't like, but alas...). It is really a lot of wasted potential in my opinion. Gorgeous sound, but not even close to useable for string quartet purposes. Should I ever come around to finishing a string quartet I would certainly try to make a recording happen.

But that is just my experience.'


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## muziksculp (Dec 26, 2017)

@muk,

Have you informed OT via emailed about these issues ? if Yes, did they reply, what did they say about this ?


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## muk (Dec 26, 2017)

I started making a list, but after a few hours gave up. There are just too many inconsistencies in the recordings. It would have taken ages to list them all, and there is no way OT wouldn't have noticed any of them during production and quality control. Basically the cellist had a totally different understanding of the short articulations then the other players. Many samples of the second violin are some db louder than violin 1 etc. etc. So basically I simply gave up on trying to use the library for solo quartet use. For layering it is ok.


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## muziksculp (Dec 26, 2017)

It would be interesting to see if OT decides to tackle this, and produce a new Berlin First Chairs Library Revive in the future.


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## thesteelydane (Dec 27, 2017)

The problem with the Sacconi is that the timbre/room sound of the playable patch doesn’t match at all with the equivalent mics from the other articulations, and the stereo image shifts around a lot - so you can’t convincingly combine the two. The tone of the playable patch is also markedly harsher and thinner than the equivalent longs, and the viola sounds downright awful (while the viola longs sounds great). I wish they would have included the standard legato with controlable vibrato. As it is now it is unusable as a quartet library for me.

I’ve been meaning to write Spitfire about these things, because if it gets fixed it will be a wonderful library.


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## Shamgar (Dec 27, 2017)

For its regular price, I wouldn't have considered Sacconi, because Chris Hein's solo strings package seems to be much more interesting for that price. Especially with the future add ons (roughly double the number of different instruments), CH seems like a good deal (if I had 599 euros...). But I understand CH needs a lot of midi-editing to make it work. 

Virharmonic Bohemian Cello sounds good (although I wish they provided more different demo songs), but don't know if I can justify myself spending 180+ on just a Cello package, if that means I'd end up spending almost € 1000 for an entire quintet

Sample Modeling SWAM site doesn't really have demo songs, so that would be a gamble or I'd have to search for what users have made.

Still have to check out the others


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## gaskell (Dec 27, 2017)

Does anyone know of a solo strings library that would enable me to recreate a half-decent mock-up of the Prestissimo Con Sordino movement of Bartók's Fourth String Quartet? As the name implies, the whole movement is played with mutes (con Sordino), and features pretty much every articulation going (excluding col legno and the Bartók pizz.!), including staccato, legato, pizz., harmonics, double-stops, bowed glissandi, plucked glissandi, tremolandos and sul ponticello. A YouTube performance (with live players!) with score can be found here:


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## Chris Hein (Dec 27, 2017)

This piece already exists.
Why should someone do this? 

And even if there would be a library offering all these articulations with 8 dynamics in Sordino.
Would you be able to handle them?


I could do the first 4 bars of III. 

Chris Hein


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## Arbee (Dec 27, 2017)

gaskell said:


> Does anyone know of a solo strings library that would enable me to recreate a half-decent mock-up of the Prestissimo Con Sordino movement of Bartók's Fourth String Quartet? As the name implies, the whole movement is played with mutes (con Sordino), and features pretty much every articulation going (excluding col legno and the Bartók pizz.!), including staccato, legato, pizz., harmonics, double-stops, bowed glissandi, plucked glissandi, tremolandos and sul ponticello. A YouTube performance (with live players!) with score can be found here:



I suspect VSL Solo Strings II could get close, but the time involved to achieve it might be off the chart .


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## aaronventure (Dec 28, 2017)

Shamgar said:


> Sample Modeling SWAM site doesn't really have demo songs, so that would be a gamble or I'd have to search for what users have made.





Definitely requires some chops, but if you're a decent performer, I don't think you'll get more consistent and expressive results in such a short time anywhere else - you get what you play.


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## Shamgar (Dec 28, 2017)

aaronventure said:


> Definitely requires some chops, but if you're a decent performer, I don't think you'll get more consistent and expressive results in such a short time anywhere else - you get what you play.




Sounds good. But I'm primarily a guitarist, trying to play midi-keyboard to the best of my abilities, so I expect I'd need lots of editing anyway for convincing solo strings.


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## gaskell (Dec 28, 2017)

Chris Hein said:


> This piece already exists.
> Why should someone do this?
> 
> Chris Hein



Hi Chris, because these are the sorts of sounds that I'd like to be able to create when writing new pieces of my own. I agree that there is little point in recreating music on virtual instruments that has already been recorded well on real instruments, other than as a display of what is possible - or where the shortcomings are.

I chose this piece not because my end goal is to faithfully recreate this, but to give an example of the sound worlds I'd like to be able to create. It was chosen partly because it is an acknowledged masterwork (or at least standard piece) of the String Quartet repertoire, it's nearly 90 years old and therefore shouldn't be considered Avant-garde, and it's a sound-world I've been used to all my adult life and I happen to really like the whole quartet!


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## gaskell (Dec 28, 2017)

Unfortunately it seems that muted solo strings VI have less available articulations than the equivalent non-muted version (e.g. VSL solo strings II doesn't have sul pont., or the glissandi). Trying to think outside the box, is there any way of faking the Con Sordino sound, so that I could use the more extensive sounds of (for example) VSL solo strings I (which do have sul pont. and glissandi)?


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## aaronventure (Dec 28, 2017)

gaskell said:


> Unfortunately it seems that muted solo strings VI have less available articulations than the equivalent non-muted version (e.g. VSL solo strings II doesn't have sul pont., or the glissandi). Trying to think outside the box, is there any way of faking the Con Sordino sound, so that I could use the more extensive sounds of (for example) VSL solo strings I (which do have sul pont. and glissandi)?



To a degree. See my post about brass mutes. I also did the same thing for SSS. Essentially, you play the muted instrument across the entire range in order for the EQ to get a reference curve. You then use that reference curve while playing the non-muted instrument across the entire range and then the EQ will match it to the reference curve. It's pretty close and will easily fool 99% of people, but it's not the same - it simply changes the final frequency response of the audio, not the balance between overtones. Voxengo Deconvolver is also a thing but I never used that and can't vouch for it.

If 99% is good enough for you, go for it.


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