# Thanks Frederick!



## Evan Gamble (Jun 29, 2005)

I concur..HIP HIP HOORAY! :D


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## Frederick Russ (Jun 29, 2005)

Thanks Hans and Evan although you may not think so after you read this - unfortunately there is one thread here that I needed to remove from public view because of the obvious legal implications to me personally and to our forum. However I take full responsibility for that as the forum owner.

Anyone who knows me knows that I sincerely value freedom of speech but there is a fine line separating honest and sincere critiques and criticisms of product versus a person appearing to be bashed - this could really place our forum in jeopardy by legal action. Therefore under that threat I am forced to remove the first thread ever at VI. However I am also compelled to remove the sample library dev who initiated this from our midsts as well as any banners supporting their product - free advertising I might add.


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## José Herring (Jun 29, 2005)

Too bad it had to come to this. Though I certainly understand.

In the future guys let's not let it get to this. There's really no need to get that personal.

And as far as the developer goes that made such a public stink about removing his ads, maybe he should have mentioned that he was getting them for free to begin with. Kind of looses it's punch in light of that fact.

Fred, if this post puts you in any legal tangles kindly delete it. Just had to say it and no hard feelings if it needs to be gone.

This place is great and it's just too bad that people get a little too touchy about what's said.

Very cowardly aproach by said developer. 

Jose


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## TARI (Jun 29, 2005)

Hans Adamson said:


> Whatever the comments will be, I know that there is no such thing as a 'perfect' sample library, because we all have different expectations, different ears, and different usage in mind. One person's treasure can be trash to someone else. Someone will love it, and someone else will just hate it. That's where the discussion starts, and that's what makes a free forum so interesting and addictive to follow. I wouldn't want to have it any other way.
> 
> I know that the behind the scenes applied pressures from developers can be strong on a forum owner. If a developer has invested a lot of money in the development of a library, he may want to try and control what is said about his products. So when the emails with a legal blurb at the end start coming, it may be tempting to give in to the intimidation. I have faith in Freddie that he won't be intimidated.
> 
> This is a forum made up of many independent individuals, each with an own opinion about anything and everything. A lot of talented, interesting people, whose thoughts and opinions I want to hear.



I think there is no respect when somebody insults the work of another person. Everybody here works hard. Nobody deserves an insult, developer, composer or whatever. 

That?s not what I understand for freedom... :(


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## Frederick Russ (Jun 29, 2005)

josejherring said:


> Fred, if this post puts you in any legal tangles kindly delete it. Just had to say it and no hard feelings if it needs to be gone.



No worries Jose. I appreciate the gesture though but lets not be looking for mass thread deletions, bannings, etc. If we have to we'll start a legal fund to keep things on even ground. I have attorneys on retainer but of course we're trying for VI-PRO project so I need to put my money there first


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## synergy543 (Jun 29, 2005)

Fredrick, thank you for keeping this as free a forum as possible.


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## lux (Jun 29, 2005)

pffff....

legal issues? incredible. Ok, our first goal is to avoid Fred any issue, so lets help him, continuing to have opinion but using a bit (!!) of good sense in expressing them. If we use no badmouthing there's no way for them to create problems to Fred.

I suggest not to talk anymore of those products. To me they never existed. Point. We have better things to do.

We have enough good developers here, that contributes to discussion.

Lets close the case and lets Fred stay calm when he's not in front of his Mac...please.

Luca


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 29, 2005)

this poses an interesting problem. What if someone comes aboard asking about a product from said developer. If people on the this forum post that there is a problem with that product, does this put you in legal trouble?

If so this ends an open forum here. I hope this not case where we cannot help people when they have legitamte concerns, and their pocketbook is at stake. Would simon's post saying that it sounds like it was recorded with a mic from Toys R US put you in legal jeopardy? I cannot believe that could be upheld in a court of law....but i am not a lawyer.


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## lux (Jun 29, 2005)

Craig Sharmat said:


> this poses an interesting problem. What if someone comes aboard asking about a product from said developer. If people on the this forum post that there is a problem with that product, does this put you in legal trouble?



I guess not, reviews are always welcome and EVERY developer has the freedom to chime in and explain why he agrees or not with that. Badmouthing is different, and can give problems to Fred as forum owner.

So, no free forum end. But as adults, lets give Fred a little help.

And, biased or not, SIMON DID AN ABSOLUTELY LEGITIMATED REVIEW THAT YOU CAN AGREE OR NOT; BUT LEGITIMATE. IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS, JUST CHIME IN AND TELL YOURS.

IS IT CLEAR, FRANCIS AND ALAN?

Luca


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## Marsdy (Jun 29, 2005)

Well part of me wishes I'd kept my big mouth shut and I feel terrible and partly responsible for Frederick getting threats of legal action.

But...
It's easy for me to say this since I'm not the one facing threats of legal action but... there is such a thing as fair comment isn't there?


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## Alan Lastufka (Jun 29, 2005)

Marsdy said:


> But... there is such a thing as fair comment isn't there?



Yes, there is. And we stayed out of the Giovani thread, allowing everyone to have their opinions on the sound of the library. Every   @ÿúy÷;( A è âÅHce74bfaa   N@öúz÷…&    ‚äÅH45fd132d ,http://www.decamusic.com/images/portrait.gif   [email protected]öú{÷…&  G  pæÅH45e175cb 207995959048afbf01c5818.gif < @÷ú|÷…&  (  ÖæÅH6297312e 20394244494736b03f431f4.gif [email protected]öú}÷…&  G  rçÅH45e175cb 207995959048afbf01c5818.gif < @öú~÷…&  | æêÅH45f2ebc0 133063954463a14527d49c.jpg f@öú÷…&   oðÅH4cf35e7c Dhttp://www.brianmcbrearty.com/images/avatar_mcbrearty_4realdough.gif   < @öú€÷…&  | ÜðÅH45f2ebc0 133063954463a14527d49c.jpg f@öú÷…&   #ñÅH4cf35e7c Dhttp://www.brianmcbrearty.com/images/avatar_mcbrearty_4realdough.gif   f@öú‚÷:(    tõÅH4cf35e7c Dhttp://www.brianmcbrearty.com/images/avatar_mcbrearty_4realdough.gif   < @öúƒ÷$(     }÷ÅH4ab980ce 319313553483845b798ad5.jpg   @ÿú„÷…&  Ï øÅHcf861824   [email protected]þú…÷ß'   äþÅH4a8c92d5     @ÿú†÷…&  
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## Patrick de Caumette (Jun 29, 2005)

Shame it came down to closing a thread...however lacking in tact it was.

As a musician, have you not ever been approached and bluntly criticized ?
What do you do then? Smash a beer bottle on the critic's head or swallow your pride and work harder at it. One approach is positive, the other negative...

It is obvious that Simon has a tendency to be very acidic in his criticism. It is also obvious that Frank has a hard time dealing with criticism, no matter how unfair it might be to him. It is also obvious that there is a history between the two of them...and that they both love to get all of us involved in this melodrama.
Drama is entertaining as long as it stays harmless

We are all adults here (I wonder sometimes...) and have enough judgment to be able to be discerning of someone's ultimate motivations and of the quality of a given product.
By forcing your will upon us, whatever side you are on, you give very little credit to our ability to see through it all.

The fact that a thread had to be closed because of a threat of legal action is what bothers me here. I thought we had a place where we could avoid "Patriot Act" types of censorship. Too bad!

Thanks again for this growing community Fred!


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## TheoKrueger (Jun 29, 2005)

Thanks Frederick! I believe you've done a great job running this forum since day one and i try to get all of my buddies to join as well.

I look forward to your next birthday so we can all post cakes and stuff.


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## TheoKrueger (Jun 29, 2005)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> But what do you do when someone is unable to express his/her view points without due respect?
> There lies the issue. Do you censor or let it be?



That's where i think the problem lies as well Patrick. For some people its hard to understand the thin line between "Free Speech" and "you can say whatever you want without caring because we have Free Speech".


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## Marsdy (Jun 29, 2005)

Alan Lastufka said:


> Marsdy said:
> 
> 
> > But... there is such a thing as fair comment isn't there?
> ...



You're missing the point. I can understand Frank being offended by Simon's comments but essentially he was correct, there WAS a serious problem with the audio quality in the initial demos. One of the demo creators admitted so, as did Frank himself I think. The demos were revised VERY soon after Simon's post appeared. Simon just happened to have a very rude way of putting it and also happens to have a history with Frank.

Is that really any reason to threaten the withdrawal of advertising that it appears you don't even pay for and threaten the forum owner with legal action? I call that bullying and cowardly. And all this just because Simon was rude to Frank who I might remind you has given as good as he got in the past. You're OK with all this are you Alan? 

And who said Frank can't speak as he pleases? He does so over on NS were he has openly insulted people, a courtesy not afforded by the NS moderators to those who don't pay for advertising over there. Those people simply get banned. 

But no one can argue with you now because your company will threaten them will legal action won't they. What was that you were saying about everyone being allowed to have their opinion on the sound of the library? Isn't this a bit hypocritical? 

Personally I don't care who thinks I suck, and plenty do. I've got a thick skin and I can take it. 

I changed my original post title because people round here asked me to. My opinion of Frank has not changed.


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## Christian Marcussen (Jun 29, 2005)

Threatening with legal action, over an insulting but correct post on a forum is ludicrious... Not to mention futile shoudl the lawsuit actually be filed. What kind of mafia like method is that anyway?


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## Alan Lastufka (Jun 29, 2005)

I'm speaking as Alan here, not a representative of Bela D Media...

Your assumptions are wrong on the legal actions taken. No legal action was taken towards the Giovani thread. We are fine with constructive critisism no matter how immautre, but please allow me to remind you that posting funny pictures and "Toys'R'Us Microphones" is far from being constructive. We politely requested the "Bela D Sucks!!!!!" thread be removed as it is neither constructive nor meaningful and it is simply slander which IS illegal for Frederick to allow.

Again, we said nothing about the Gio thread until it turned to mocking our artwork, questioning our licensing rights and other pitiful posts. There is nothing more I can do to help you undertand the difference between critisism and bashing as your own administrator said:


> there is a fine line separating honest and sincere critiques and criticisms of product versus a person appearing to be bashed - this could really place our forum in jeopardy by legal action



Sadly, this is my final post at VI-Control as I am no longer at libery to discuss matters further, our attorneys are handling it and I have a product to develope.

Sincerly, 
Alan Lastufka


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## Marsdy (Jun 29, 2005)

Alan Lastufka said:


> Your assumptions are wrong. No legal threats were made about the Giovani thread. We are fine with _constructive_ critisism. We politely requested the "Bela D Sucks!!!!!" thread be removed as it is neither constructive or meaningful and it is simply slander which IS illegal for Frederick to allow.
> 
> I know you guys like to read what's here and think that's it - but there is much more to it. Frederick and I and Frank are in email conversations and everything is fine. This kind of stuff goes on around the internet everyday in more places than you can imagine. We never said anything about the Giovani thread. Only the "...sucks!" thread and only because this is our profession, our living, our way to feed our families at stake and to have someone belittle and demean that on a whim it would be irresponsible of us not to take some kind of action.



What assumptions did I make? I wasn't aware I had made any. Please clarify. Where did I claim legal threats were made about the Giovani thread?

You wrote.
"We politely requested the "Bela D Sucks!!!!!" thread be removed as it is neither constructive or meaningful and it is simply slander which IS illegal for Frederick to allow."

This is entirely a matter of opinion. Could you also clarify what you consider "polite" about threatening legal action? 

I see you've neatly side-stepped the issue of threatening to withdraw Bela D advertising from VI. I quote, "... they will not recieve another penny from us for advertising and I suggest other developers take a hard look." I still fail to understand why one VI forum member's rudeness gives Frank the right to attempt to bully Frederick into censoring an entire thread that correctly questioned the audio quality of the original demos. And can you answers this question? Has Bela D actually paid for advertising here as Frank implies above?

You also conveniently side-step the issue of the original demos having substandard audio. They did, your own boss said "Oooops. Ya know what? I ~~~~ed up. In the excitement and rush of getting everything posted - I rendered the demos with a stereo plug and its making the some of the demos collapse in mono." Simon had a point didn't he? He was at least partly justified in questioning the sound of your choir even if his motives are suspect.

You wrote;
"We never said anything about the Giovani thread. Only the "...sucks!" thread and only because this is our profession, our living, our way to feed our families at stake and to have someone belittle and demean that on a whim it would be irresponsible of us not to take some kind of action

This is simply not true, Frank had plenty to say about the Giovani thread. He wrote the following on NS:
"In regards to that other forum:

I was unaware of what was being said until I received a phone call from a top composer you all know and respect. I have no issue with constructive opinions. After all, how can a producer grow without them? However, comments such as, "horrible", "Toys'r'Us microphones", "samples are just dull and... screwed up", "It sounds horrible",... posting funny images of people wearing ear plugs and mocking our artwork.... is anything but constructive and I am very disappointed in the forum owner to allow this to go on for 9 pages. Needless to say, they will not receive another penny from us for advertising and I would suggest other developers take a hard look.

EDIT: We see that the owner has taken action and we thank him for doing so."

If everything is OK behind the scenes, why was Frank banned?


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## Christian Marcussen (Jun 29, 2005)

Threats of legal action, implied or otherwise, hardly seems very polite to me... 

That said i'm sorry if I jumped the gun too soon - really - but waving around attorneys etc just rubs me the wrong way


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## Scott Rogers (Jun 29, 2005)

..........


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jun 29, 2005)

Alan Lastufka said:


> Sadly, this is my final post at VI-Control as I am no longer at libery to discuss matters further, our attorneys are handling it and I have a product to develope.



Alan, please tell me I am mistaken here.
Are you guys ACTUALLY in the process of sueing Frederick over this!?! :shock: 

As impartial as I have tried to be over this, if Bela Media is intending to hurt someone who is trying to offer an excellent alternative to composers using samples because of the bad manners of a couple of posters I can personally guarantee you that I will never ever buy a Bela D. product again and I would be surprised if other composers do the same.

Come on! Francis himself posted: "EDIT: We see that the owner has taken action and we thank him for doing so." 

Is the case closed or are you people still on a crusade?

Or is it that you have issues with Simon and Marsdy and since there is nothing you can do to hurt them (aside from fitting them with concrete shoes) you now turn your vengeance on Frederick ?


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## lux (Jun 29, 2005)

Alan Lastufka said:


> I'm speaking as Alan here, not a representative of Bela D Media...
> 
> Sadly, this is my final post at VI-Control as I am no longer at libery to discuss matters further, our attorneys are handling it and I have a product to develope.
> 
> ...



Alan, two things:

1) why you and frank continue to announce last posts on VI? I cant see any reason. You posted on this thread, someone replied you, you posted again. I cant see the problem. We are here, you are free to speak what and how you prefer, so, again, whats the problem? You speak as a man who's not permitted to talk. I honestly dont see that here.

2) Frederick DIDNT allow badmouthing. He wasnt in that specific moment in the possibility to act (personal thought). I saw HORRIBLE PIRATE posts standing on main NS sample forum for hours before getting deleted. I dont think its so hard to understand.

Considered that, any action you will take will show just a bad attitude to act against freedom of speech about your products, it doesnt applies to your usual matter afaikn, but I cannot find any different reason, sorry.

As sincerely as you
Luca


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## synergy543 (Jun 29, 2005)

TheoKrueger said:


> Patrick de Caumette said:
> 
> 
> > But what do you do when someone is unable to express his/her view points without due respect?
> ...


I disagree. I think there may also be cultural and social differences at play here. If we all are from the same class group in America, then fine no problem. But when we mix different cultures and class groups, then one man's "this is some BAD s&*t" is an outright insult to another. Simon's approach is obviously much more blunt and outspoken than many in America are used to and he is not constrained by the American obsession on political correctness. So who is to say which is good or bad?

The fact is, Simon was making a valid point about a recording problem that was later acknowledged and corrected by Francis. So Simon was not bad mouthing - he actually was noticing something important that everyone else seemed to be missing. So despite Simon's blunt approach something important was being conveyed.

Do we want to kill the message along with the messenger?

It is my take that that is in fact the intent (of many developers in particular). If we all said only happy nice things the problem would still be unnoticed. We have more to gain by being tolerant listeners of each other rather than suppressing expression to conform to "our" norms.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jun 29, 2005)

Tolerance is not limited to the listener. The speaker needs tolerance as well for a respectful conversation to take place.

No matter how relevant your point is, the way to express it also matters...especially in a field such as the arts where hypersensitivity is often the norm... 

..being idealistic here... :?


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## synergy543 (Jun 29, 2005)

Alan Lastufka said:


> Sadly, this is my final post at VI-Control as I am no longer at libery to discuss matters further, our attorneys are handling it and I have a product to develope.
> 
> Sincerly,
> Alan Lastufka


Shame on you for choosing to handle it this way! Shame on you.

You forgot so quickly about the Project 6 Cakewalk threats? So you turn and spite Fredrick in the same way?

He has done nothing but help you with free banners, he smoothed out the scandal (with kind words about you) when you were masquerading and bad-mouthing as "Lincoln Flesh" and he has also removed the first thread at VI Control at your request.

Shame on you.


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## José Herring (Jun 29, 2005)

I agree with your point Patrick. And, also I can see where Alan and Francis are coming from.

But, this fued has got to stop.

I've think that manners are in order here. You can have harsh criticizms but convey them with manners. That way nobody get's in trouble here.

Now this thing has gotten way out of hand and we need to step back and take a look at what's happening.

Taking cheap shots at the art work is of course useless. But, asking if Bela had legal rights to use the art work would be apropriate.

Nobody spoke up when Bela released Project five:LD and Bela got stomped on hard. They're were a few of you who made the connection between products and didn't mention anything. A gentle heads up would have saved a lot of trouble.

So it's not what's said but the way things are said.

In the future when we have something to say let's be specific and have manners and these kinds of things will never happen.

As far as a lawsuit is concerned, let's cease and desist on any further legal action and just concentrate on policing our own behavior with decent manners.

We all use to be friends. Remember?

Jose


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## synergy543 (Jun 29, 2005)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> Tolerance is not limited to the listener. The speaker needs tolerance as well for a respectful conversation to take place.


Yes but clearly there are differences. So without some degree of tolerance, we will be unable to speak to each other.

American's can enjoy their "Freedom Fries" but we missed an important message the French were conveying that has resulted in more deaths than 911 and infinitely more terrorsist. Should the French have shut up? They were rude and insolent by American standards.

Yet,... they were ultimately correct (we were hasty). The world now pays a steep price for our arrogance.

Enjoy your "Freedom Fries" and think twice before you drink a glass of milk now.


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## Alex W (Jun 29, 2005)

I heard that freedom of speech isn't free, and that it actually costs a buck 0 5.


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## Frederick Russ (Jun 29, 2005)

Just to reiterate - Alan isn't nor ever has been the one threatening lawsuits. He's in the unfortunate middle but has been the one responding since Frank cannot because his account has been suspended in lieu of resolving this dispute.

I will always work hard to keep VI Control an exercise in free speech. Today I've had the pleasure of consulting one of the country's leading defamation experts. We are confident that VI will soon return to business as usual and are willing to explore our options to retain the privilege.

Kudos truly goes to those who make VI what it is - the talented musicians, composers and great guys that really bring the magic of their attention and experience to those who want to improve in composition and midi mockup skills. Kudos to those who dare to speak honest opinions - without that honesty, how can we truly embrace VI's motto of musicians helping musicians, for without some occasional hard truths we really cannot. (That's honesty without abusing the privilege  )

Lots at stake here - VI is home to me too. Keep the faith and lets look forward to years of carrying on the legacy and tradition we're establishing here daily. Long story short - kudos go to everybody in the community for making VI what it is today.


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## Scott Rogers (Jun 29, 2005)

..........


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## Aaron Sapp (Jun 29, 2005)

Yea, I had dinner with a lawyer friend several weeks ago and asked him what the chances were of someone getting into a legal dispute over a few words in an online forum/chatroom. He pretty much echoed what Thomas pointed out. I've had similar threats myself from certain developers and wondered whether or not they could actually do any kind of damage. Maybe a big headache if not anything else.


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## Marsdy (Jun 30, 2005)

Frederick Russ said:


> I will always work hard to keep VI Control an exercise in free speech. Today I've had the pleasure of consulting one of the country's leading defamation experts. We are confident that VI will soon return to business as usual and are willing to explore our options to retain the privilege.



Frederick
If you are incurring costs consulting this defamation expert then I would like to help with those costs.


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## José Herring (Jun 30, 2005)

Marsdy said:


> Frederick Russ said:
> 
> 
> > I will always work hard to keep VI Control an exercise in free speech. Today I've had the pleasure of consulting one of the country's leading defamation experts. We are confident that VI will soon return to business as usual and are willing to explore our options to retain the privilege.
> ...



Here,here. I owe this place a lot and want to see it continue and get better. And, I immensly resent the bullying from Bela D. Talk about slapping at the wrong target. Jeez

Cheers,

Jose


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## TARI (Jun 30, 2005)

I really don't know what is happening here. Frank and Alan are two developers very close to all of us who work hard to create great things like Gio. If somebody insults me and my work I really should be angry as well. :evil: 
They have all my support. I think is important a forum with developers sharing their work. I repeat that they are very close to us, and I like that. Other developers are like God, you don?t know if they exist...


Did you forget the freebies from Bela D...? If you don?t like, upload them. 
Tomorrow I am going to Toys ur Us to buy a microphone like those used to record Gio...SOUNDS GREAT!!!!!!!!

And please...if somebody looks for an enemy to amuse, buy a shot gun PC game... 

Freedom has a different meaning for me

Nothing more to say :evil:


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## rob morsberger (Jun 30, 2005)

I'm curious why Simon R has not contributed to this discussion.

Rob


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 30, 2005)

rob morsberger said:


> I'm curious why Simon R has not contributed to this discussion.
> 
> Rob



Uhm, what am I supposed to say?


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## rob morsberger (Jun 30, 2005)

Oh hi Simon!

I can't believe you're at a loss for words.

Well, since you ignited this whole situation in the first place...and people have been rushing to defend you....and still others (myself included) consider your conduct (at least partly) reprehensible...it seems odd that you sit by and let others do the talking.

I'm sure you're a talented and lovely fellow BTW. The incredibly sad thing about this whole affair is that everyone involved is probably passionate and good-hearted. We should be proud of each other and helping each other. Composers and developers. We're all fighting the good fight and we all love what we do. What we do is very, very hard. How sad..and pathetic really...that even such a community of good people can't get along.

Sincerely,

Rob


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## Christian Marcussen (Jun 30, 2005)

You calling the community I'm part of for pathetic... YOU WILL HEAR FROM MY LAWYER!


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 30, 2005)

Rob,

I have no regrets whatsoever. If Francis can't take criticism (justified - even thoguh he should be able to handle unjust criticism in a professional manner as well, given his position), it's not really my problem. He should learn to handle these things professionally instead of coming off as an exploding 4-year old.

Anything else?


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## rob morsberger (Jun 30, 2005)

Dear Christian,

I know you're joking but the joke isn't very funny to me.

And your good-natured joke is a classic example of how these threads go so wrong...because that's not what I said. Of course I didn't say this community is pathetic.

If you look back on this thread and read carefully, you will see various positions clearly and fairly stated and then carelessly and emotionally misrepresented by others to the detriment of the conversation and with dire consequences.

Sorry...I know you're just having fun.

Sincerely,

Rob


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## rob morsberger (Jun 30, 2005)

Ok Simon.

I find that response disappointing even if it has some merit.

I don't want to get personal and I'll say no more about it other than to wish you well.

Sincerely,

Rob


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## Jon Paouli Trapek (Jun 30, 2005)

I still remember those threads re: Diva and I'm pretty sure it wasn't even Simon who made the first critical post. What I can recall is that it was partly because people like Simon complained about excessive vibrato along with the "tin-can" sound that Frank went off and produced Diva Extended (the title of which always makes me think of a soprano being stretched in some bondage porn video).

Thing is, its basically happened again: The first batch of demos are released and a few people can hear something's not right. Simon, probably sharpening his pencil with glee, points out the deficiencies in his usual enchanting manner, others agree and and the BelaD bunch go nuts only to discover that the demos are faulty. A few more demos come out and the a lot of the criticism levels off. Except that Frank and co. have gone ballistic and burnt a few more bridges in the whole process - which is a shame as I think Frank, Dawn, Alan and co are all really nice people who are doing themselves no favours by responding in this fashion.


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## ComposerDude (Jun 30, 2005)




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## Scott Rogers (Jun 30, 2005)

..........


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## TARI (Jun 30, 2005)

Hi Scott.
I am not going to disscuss about this any more. My english is not as good as yours :wink: so it is impossible to say what I think...but I still think the same I said: Bela D don't deserve this...


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## Scott Rogers (Jun 30, 2005)

..........


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## TARI (Jun 30, 2005)

Scott Rogers said:


> they deserve our support, respect, and applause. I stand corrected.



:D :D :D


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## PolarBear (Jun 30, 2005)

Alan Lastufka said:


> *I'm* speaking as Alan here, not a representative of Bela D Media...
> 
> ... *We* are fine with constructive critisism ... *We* politely requested ...
> 
> ...



I'm not sure who spoke here :?:

PS: Taken totally out of context from this post


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## Scott Rogers (Jun 30, 2005)

..........


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## TARI (Jun 30, 2005)

Do not get angry Scott, it was only a joke. I do not want that anybody bothers about my commentaries.
I just say what I think in a free site...


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## Scott Rogers (Jun 30, 2005)

..........


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## Marsdy (Jun 30, 2005)

Scott

Give Tari a break man 

I don't agree with him either but as he says, English is not his first language and he's obviously not getting his point across as he wishes.

Personally I'm much more disappointed with Handz. He hasn't done anyone any favours with his posts and made it harder to argue the case for VI Control. I actually don't blame Alan for having a pop at him on NS although I don't see Alan's "cesspool" comment as being any less defamatory than my thread title. 

And maybe I've made it harder to argue the case for VI with my "Bela D Sucks!!!" thread title. However, I WAS trying to make a serious point about developers having editorial control over VI. This is precisely the kind of behaviour that has ruined NS for a great many of us and I think I can safely say that the majority of us don't want that to happen here.


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## José Herring (Jun 30, 2005)

I don't visit NS very much after the banning. Though now with a new computer I can see the threads.

Boy is it getting ugly. Cesspool? Seems like most of the ongoing bickering is happining over there. We seem pretty civilized compared to that.

:roll: 

I really like it over here. I've gotten more out of this place than on NS. But, I don't think the people at NS give a damn about peoples professional ability.

We need to keep this place open and safe from harm. Anything it takes fredrick. I'm with you.

And, Hanz. Enough's enough. The artwork? Who really cares about it.

Jose


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## Scott Rogers (Jun 30, 2005)

..........


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## fv (Jun 30, 2005)

Hi,

I'd say that the biggest problem is there are people on both sides who don't want to let it go. Right now, it feels more like that Bugs Bunny cartoon where the 2 characters are simply bashing each other over the head with a wooden mallet and, as it escalates, each just brings out a bigger wooden mallet. At the end of it all, both have big headaches. 

Anyway, I think that the best thing is really to let it go. No one will really sway anybody who has chosen a side to defend here. When we're unable to change the situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. In the end, this bickering really cheapens this forum and is not why many of us have come here IMHO.

Best regards,
FV


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 30, 2005)

Old Dale Carnegie quote

those whose opinions which are changed against ones will, are of the same opinion still.

OK battle on


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## José Herring (Jun 30, 2005)

fv said:


> Hi,
> 
> .....
> 
> ...



Very true. I don't really see where this is getting anybody now. The verdict is in. Gio is selling very well. Some like it others won't touch it.

Alan and Belardino may purposely want to keep this thing going to bring more attention to the Gio release which it certainly has. But, it's time to move on.

Jose


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## Alan Lastufka (Jun 30, 2005)

Though I stated I was no longer going to post, I feel compelled to inform you...

Following a friendly and open conversation between the CEO of Bela D and the owner of VI-Control this afternoon, all legal actions have been suspended. Both parties (Bela D and VI-Control) agree that _constructive_ critisism and honest opinions are very important during and after the creation of any library. The only issue ever addressed was the bashing and published mockery that was neither constructive, nor even decent and can in fact be construed as defamation.

Frederick has a wonderful forum, when its used properly, for everyone to come and speak their mind. But even he agrees that bashing and personal vedettas do not belong on his forums, hence the thread in question has been completely removed.

The conversation ended in a few laughs and a hope for things to soon return to the status quo, where we can complain about not having enough RAM or listening to fantastic mock-ups instead of everybody arguing over who is right and who is wrong.

This issue was never about _constructive_ critisism. That last sentence has been posted numurous times by myself and has gone ignored. So I am again posting it. The only issue ever addressed was the bashing and published mockery that was neither constructive, nor even decent.

I wish everyone the best in the future and hope we can all head back to our sequencers instead of our subpoenas.


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## rob morsberger (Jun 30, 2005)

Fantastic news. Well done everyone.

...now let's all make some great music.

Sincerely,

Rob


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## José Herring (Jun 30, 2005)

Well done Fredrick and Alan and Francis!!

Solving differences with understanding and communication is really the best for everybody.

:D 

Jose

edit: BTW Alan I hope you continue to post here. If not I'd miss your input.


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## Christian Marcussen (Jun 30, 2005)

Good news...


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## Scott Rogers (Jun 30, 2005)

..........


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## ComposerDude (Jun 30, 2005)

Congratulations, Frederick!


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## Herman Witkam (Jun 30, 2005)

Thanks Frederick, Alan and Francis.

Let's all get back to composing and developing great sample libraries!


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 30, 2005)

Alan Lastufka said:


> Following a friendly and open conversation between the CEO of Bela D



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Talk about megalomania.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 30, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Alan Lastufka said:
> 
> 
> > Following a friendly and open conversation between the CEO of Bela D
> ...



Talk about Melomniac! :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:


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## lux (Jun 30, 2005)

Alan Lastufka said:


> This issue was never about _constructive_ critisism. That last sentence has been posted numurous times by myself and has gone ignored. So I am again posting it. The only issue ever addressed was the bashing and published mockery that was neither constructive, nor even decent.



Lemme understand please Alan, you mean that Simon post was non constructive, so it was diffamatory, so it deserves legal issues (to Fred)?

So if I just say that the lib doesnt sound good because of bad recording I will be pursued legally? And you think it will work?

I think you just mean badmouthing, not that, but in the mood of common clarification and passing ahead, I would like to hear from you, if you can.

Thanks
Luca


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## ComposerDude (Jun 30, 2005)




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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 30, 2005)

Peter,

Simon has used the name Melomaniac as a handle in chat rooms.

just so you are informed


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## Frederick Russ (Jun 30, 2005)

Frank, Alan and I had a chat via telephone. Actually they are both really nice guys on the phone and it was great to get some closure on some issues so that VI can get back to being the open forum we've all grown to love and also so that Frank, Alan and gang can get back to developing libraries.

I've been lately examining some of the free speech vs. defamation laws with an expert and found that although many things would be difficult to file a claim on, it doesn't necessarily make it right. Opinions for one are very difficult to file a claim on. I feel however that for me it really goes back to VI's motto of musicians helping musicians. Offering constructive criticism (even delivered harshly), suggestions for improvement, and the free exchange of ideas are welcome here because its relevant information and opinion that can help members to make more informed choices. I encourage this which is part of the reason I put VI together so we can discuss these things freely.

Personally I don't agree that continued bashing of an individual or company is helpful or constructive. After awhile it gets really old and seems to take away from the experience of VI while splintering and dividing the overall larger community, many of whom are also VI members. We're all adults here (or at least we should be) and for the most part I've let the VI community naturally moderate collectively which is part of the beauty of VI. But hey, using the forum as a kangaroo court which places on trial the integrity issues of a person or developer is really not an intended use of the forum - and even if its possible to do some of it legally, it doesn't make it right.

I value each and everyone of you here - your opinions, experience, your unique approaches and talents. No surprises or changes in how I'll moderate. Don't expect ridiculous militaristic bannings, post deletions, censorship, etc., so please, no need to be looking over your shoulder worrying or losing sleep about such things. As you know we like letting things flow where they will therefore it should be business as usual here at VI. Therefore - go ahead - be opinionated, be free in speech and ideas, and be yourself here because I really welcome that. 

Let's try however to be mindful that there is a fine line between being constructive and being abusive, and way too much of the latter begins to rob the community of some value rather than add to it. Let's instead try working together to keep VI a cool place to hang for the greater community for years to come - let's build it into the forum model of the 21st century. Just my two cents.


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## Hans Adamson (Jun 30, 2005)

And if you cross the line, there will be two BIG guys tapping on your shoulder, and you will hear Craig and Ned: "Keep it down in here, will ya. You are getting noisy!!!"

:wink:

Edit: Those two BIG guys are ventriliquists... I think it is Mike Tyson and some Russian hockey player.


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