# Threadripper PRO prices



## Michelob (Feb 1, 2021)

Hi,

Sorry, in french :









AMD officialise les tarifs de ses Ryzen Threadripper Pro : de 1 149 à 5 489 dollars


Cela fait quelques mois maintenant qu'AMD a annoncé ses nouvelles solutions haut de gamme dérivées des processeurs EPYC, mais adaptées au marché des stations de travail. Mais le constructeur fait les choses petit à petit, et vient...




www.inpact-hardware.com






Threadripper Pro 3955WX (16C/32T) : 1 149 dollars
Threadripper Pro 3975WX (32C/64T) : 2 749 dollars
Threadripper Pro 3995WX (64C/128T) : 5 489 dollars
And some MOBOs here :









AMD Opens Up Threadripper Pro: Three New WRX80 Motherboards







www.anandtech.com





I guess I should wait for march before building my new PC 

Cheers,

Michel


----------



## colony nofi (Feb 1, 2021)

And Zen3 TR (non pro) are not *too* far away either, and it looks like they will be far better high end workstation chips than these zen2 based TR Pro's. Unfortunately, these three chips (finally out to the public, and not just Lenovo) don't seem to be an amazing proposition for high end sample based workflows. They are incredible for other workflows. Zen3 fixes that, and I firmly believe Zen3 TR and TRPro will be the platform to beat when one wants one workstation to do it all (a no-slave-setup)

Having a bunch of studios here all with macs, we are holding out for both Zen3 TR and "pro" versions of M series apple hardware before making the decision on what we do next with our ageing trashcans. We can hold out another year if absolutely necessary, but not much more. For my personal workstation, I'm kinda sold on the TR direction, but I'm also gobsmacked by what a little M1 based mini is capable of in our test rig right now.


----------



## Michelob (Feb 2, 2021)

So you wouldn't go for a Zen 2 TR Pro... Damned, I thought I had read some positive experience about them on the forum.

Does it change anything if I'm only building some VEP slave machine ? I'm not sure about building such a thing, it depends on another question I asked here :





__





Simulaneously many users on VEP ?


Hi, I did make a lot of searches here and on Google but I can't find a simple answer to this question : Is it possible to let several composers work simulaneously on a single VEP slave PC ? And sorry about my relatively poor english... Thank you, Michel




vi-control.net





It looks like you're managing some big composition studio, so I'm aware of any advice about making work together many composers.

Thanks a lot,

Michel


----------



## colony nofi (Feb 2, 2021)

It is very possible that a TRPro based workstation will be an excellent machine. 
I'm not sure performance wise it would beat out the top Intel HEDT chips right now *for a sample instrument based workflow all in one computer*
(There are so many variables with this stuff its tricky even giving opinions)

Unless you needed more than 256GB ram, I would think a Zen3 5950X would in most circumstances be a better long term machine than the zen2Pro's - most DAW workflows just don't need that many cores/ threads. 16 cores can be useful. We've had a machine with 28cores in here and it purred - but it shone on hard-core multichannel mixing more than feeling great for samples (where the core zero issue really shows its hand!)

TR Pro has an incredible architecture for PCIE. I'm not sure that our sample workflows really require it. Unless you are using the workstation for things other than sample based writing. A Zen3 Ryzen will provide enough PCIE bandwidth for most storage subsystems that we need, as well as plenty even for 25GB/s ethernet (for example) and a workstation graphics card.

So. Regarding VEP slave machine. I personally think that workflow (hosting sample libs on a second/third machine) is no longer required for 80-90% of people. Of course there are some doing incredibly detailed compositions / arrangements that will max out almost any machine - so running some libs via a master/slave setup will be useful. It takes a lot more time in setup/management, and when you have multiple studios, that matters. I think there *is* a place for running something like VEP on the same machine as your DAW - a kind of hybrid approach. To me, the less that I as a composer need to worry about the tech while I'm writing, the better.

I'm unclear if you mean you want the TR-Pro machine to be your slave or the DAW. It feels overkill architecture for either to be honest. Ryzen 3 higher core count machines with 256GB ram are looking extremely good, and once (vanilla) TR Zen3 is out, I think we might well have our new "king" for DAWS. This is of course just a personal opinion, but based on a lot of testing and using a tonne of different machines.

Staring down at intel's HEDT roadmaps, this is interesting as well - as Q3 this year we will get a new architecture there as well which is promising some really great gains. But time will tell if they can manage to pull a rabbit out the hat with their single core performance, which always HAS to be taken into account with DAWS.

(Note : I'm also experimenting with offloading effects onto a server at the moment - which is an interesting project. Probably not for a single studio, but for multiple studios, it could be really really great!)


----------



## Michelob (Feb 3, 2021)

Hi,

A pleasure to read your detailed answer.

Maybe I should first expose my needs. I'm currently on an "old" i7-4770k with 32gb RAM. I'm working on Reaper that allows working on several projets simultaneously, which is really nice to get a great workflow when TV/cinema composing (that's my job). Since a few weeks, I encounteer more and more Reaper freezes or crashes, especially when switching to some other project or closing it.

I'm pretty sure that any i9 with 128Gb would be enough to fit my needs. Especially using VEP (even on the same machine, your hybrid approach), because of those multi-projects sessions.

But I'm working with some other composers/assistants, and I'm considering to setup 2 more (little) studios near mine (well in fact, just affecting existing rooms in my house, that's not Remote Control here haha).

That's why I'm (desperatly) seeking for some advice about using VEP from several clients/slaves. Because if this sounds possible, then I'm sure the VEP server/master needs to almost get some server infrastructure, and that's why I was excited by the TR pro serie.

I'm gonna check this out by myself as soon as possible.

Beside that collaboration architecture, if that doesn't work, well there's still the samples size evolution process that will probably impose some 4Tb concert flute in a near future.

That's why, regarding the fact that I would use this new PC for some 5 years (sounds reasonable), my guess is that 128gb is not enough, 256gb is ok, and if some infrastructure allows more, I would say this is my almost first criteria.

And that's why the upcoming TR Pro sounds so good to me (but I don't precisely know how Zen2 would penalise the system, I really got no idea).

So, back to you analysis. Are you saying 5950X allows 256gb ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I only find 128gb MOBOs for it. 5950X + Zen3 + 256Gb would be great, but does it already exist ?

I'm also interested by your offloading effects experiments.

Cheers,

Michel


----------



## colony nofi (Feb 4, 2021)

Michelob said:


> Hi,
> 
> A pleasure to read your detailed answer.
> 
> ...


Hi Michel,
A correction. I was wrong. Zen3 Ryzen only allow 128GB memory. So this may well be a sticking point for you. TR (non pro) is 256GB and TR Pro is many times that.

PCIE lanes - Zen3 Ryzen is 20 lanes, TR (non pro) is 80! So yeah, TR are serious machines indeed.

Back to your usage. Do I read you right that you are you exploring a single machine which has a bunch of VEPro instances on it that multiple computers can access?

We looked into it here for multi-composition suites, and got a firm "NO" from a couple well known sample library manufacturers - its not allowed from a licensing side of things. (Even with owning 3 licenses of the same libraries). I personally love the idea - it makes keeping tech in sync between all machines. 

I never got to the point of actually testing it from a user perspective. It would most likely require multiple ethernet ports to work well (knowing a little about how the VEP ethernet audio works - its not designed to work over a distributed network, so you'd need a separate network for each machine on its own ethernet port - not a problem these days really) - but VEP setup does not allow for different computers to connect to the one computer by design. 

But if you're willing to go down a rabbit hole - there's always virtualisation. Once you head down that path, you're in for a penny, in for a pound. Lots of things to get right - but it could be amazing. 

And its definitely possible. I've done it with a lot of other software that works in kind of similar ways.

But probably against vsl's terms of service.

Quick read here :




__





One slave computer with sample libraries and 10 masters... - Vienna Instruments & Ensemble Software - FORUMS - Vienna Symphonic Library


No description




www.vsl.co.at





Regarding issues with Zen2. Its complicated - but if you are wanting to go into the nitty gritty, take a look at anantechs rundown of the differences between zen3 and zen2 and how the chip architecture effects single core operation. What I haven't done is look closely into how much VEP is effected by the "zero core" problem - my knowledge taps out at that point - but I've yet to see any real-time audio software that is not in some way effected by the single core performance of a chip. Unfortunately zen2 had some very clever designs that adversely effected audio performance - especially at low latencies - which have completely been overcome by zen3. As it happens - looking at gaming performance for first person games often can tell you a lot about how audio wii perform on a chip.

GamersNexus on youtube is well worth looking at when it comes to talking about chip architecture and performance - as is anantech. 

An aside : I'll let you know how our "effects' server goes in the future. I want to transition to complete object orientated mixing paradigms - and Nuendo is the closest for that, but still has a long way to go. I am in no doubt that it is the future of all sound post mixing, if designed right.


----------



## allen-garvey (Feb 4, 2021)

Something also to consider, TR allows quad channel memory, while with Ryzen it would only be dual channel.


----------



## Technostica (Feb 4, 2021)

allen-garvey said:


> Something also to consider, TR allows quad channel memory, while with Ryzen it would only be dual channel.


TR Pro is 8 channel.


----------



## allen-garvey (Feb 4, 2021)

Technostica said:


> TR Pro is 8 channel.


Did not realize that was a thing, so even better then.


----------



## Michelob (Feb 5, 2021)

Wow 8 channel... But they say you can technically go up to 2To RAM, didn't they ? So it would be 256Go/channel ? That's huge (well I personnaly won't go that far, as RAM would cost about as much as my home).

@colony nofi :

- yes, 128Go is ok for now, but for how long ? So yes, I'll avoid this option.

- thank you so much for that link to VEP multi-instances discussion. I didn't find it despite a lot of searches. I had some similar answer to another thread I wrote a few days ago. Beside this legal consideration, there's something else : what if this server goes down... ? It would break the whole workflow for anyone in the building, and I certainly don't want that  So I give up about this (yes I was talking about building such a server machine), and I will only use VEP on my own.

- but I'm still curious, as you are, about how things are setup in big collaboration studios. It makes sense to feed sounds onto a single server, even if you have to pay as much third party licenses as there are composers (and double it to in case of crash...).

Now, VEP or not VEP, VEP on the main machine, or a slave... I absolutely don't know, and I think it's time for some real world experiences.

And about Zen 2 or 3, I'll check out the sources you mention. Thank you very much.

Keep you posted.

Michel


----------



## colony nofi (Feb 5, 2021)

Within a multi-studio environment, where there is a single port of call for technical support, I would strongly suggest building single workstations per composition suite, and not having workstation+slave. It costs much more over time to keep all those machines running, complicates install and upgrades, and these days its becomming possible to run extremely capable workstations on their own.

If you are working with a lot of orchestral libraries, I think VEP on the single workstation is an absolute win. There are loads of videos / discussions about why this is. You can work your machine much harder - AND swapping between cues is much faster. 

Perhaps TR2Pro machines are for you. I would definitely get one first and test test test before buying multiples of them. 

Another thing you can do is have all your machines in a server room, and run video, mouse, midi etc all over IP. So any machine can be patched into any room. This is great if different composers use different libraries, but you still want to be able to have them work on "their" stuff. Composers rarely like to use just the libraries that a overarching company prescribes them. Libraries are creative tools.
Going this way - you can even have an extra "backup" machine that can be patched in as needed with just the minimum libs on board. Good when things go wrong. 
Composers rarely work all the time as well. If you want to keep the rooms running, you can have one or two extra machines for composers compared to the number of rooms you have. Then just juggle your room management well with booking software etc. But again - many composers wont work like this - and want their OWN room. It can be disconcerting to need to go into a different room on different days.

For post, this is a completely different story, and being able to swap things between rooms is an absolute necessity.


----------



## Michelob (Feb 6, 2021)

Being able to swap machines between rooms is just a great idea.

Would you recommend a specific managing software ? I just know Team Viewer, maybe it's a good one, I don't know.

Thanks for sharing all those ideas. Really appreciate.


----------



## samphony (Feb 6, 2021)

colony nofi said:


> And Zen3 TR (non pro) are not *too* far away either, and it looks like they will be far better high end workstation chips than these zen2 based TR Pro's. Unfortunately, these three chips (finally out to the public, and not just Lenovo) don't seem to be an amazing proposition for high end sample based workflows. They are incredible for other workflows. Zen3 fixes that, and I firmly believe Zen3 TR and TRPro will be the platform to beat when one wants one workstation to do it all (a no-slave-setup)
> 
> Having a bunch of studios here all with macs, we are holding out for both Zen3 TR and "pro" versions of M series apple hardware before making the decision on what we do next with our ageing trashcans. We can hold out another year if absolutely necessary, but not much more. For my personal workstation, I'm kinda sold on the TR direction, but I'm also gobsmacked by what a little M1 based mini is capable of in our test rig right now.


After test driving an m1 mini for a month on multiple projects including feature films i decided to stay with apple as It shows just with m1 alone anything that’s coming next will be more mind blowing.


----------



## colony nofi (Feb 7, 2021)

samphony said:


> After test driving an m1 mini for a month on multiple projects including feature films i decided to stay with apple as It shows just with m1 alone anything that’s coming next will be more mind blowing.


Yeah, our M1 tests here have been VERY encouraging (for post.)
While a few things are still meaning we have to hold out for a bit, its not a lot - and I feel like we too might stay all mac and just a couple of PC's for specific uses.



Michelob said:


> Being able to swap machines between rooms is just a great idea.
> 
> Would you recommend a specific managing software ? I just know Team Viewer, maybe it's a good one, I don't know.
> 
> Thanks for sharing all those ideas. Really appreciate.


No need to run managing software. 
There are solutions these days which mean you can convert digital video to be transmitted over cat 6e/cat 7 cables, and converted back at the other end. So you can run hdmi for instance a long distance. Ditto for USB. And of course, audio can be run over IP very easily these days. It means your rigs can be a long distance away with no issues at all - and you just use a network patch bay in the machine room to send a workstation to a particular room.
Not cheap, but also not terribly expensive. I've seen two post houses do this, and we are looking at it very seriously for future expansion. I also used video over network for a dance theatre show (that toured a tonne) a few years ago and it worked incredibly well.
Look up NDI
But also - SDI can work extremely well too - and the costs of SDI infrastructure are much lower than they were even 5 years ago.


----------



## Michelob (Feb 10, 2021)

Sorry I missed your answer.

Thank you, I'm investigating around all you mention. Over IP looks great and not expensive.

Just a question, I'm not that fluent in english, and I don't know what you mean when saying "post house".


----------



## Tatiana Gordeeva (Feb 11, 2021)

> Just a question, I'm not that fluent in english, and I don't know what you mean when saying "post house".


Il veut dire "maison ou studio de post-production".


----------



## Michelob (Feb 11, 2021)

Ha great ! Merci Tatiana.


----------



## Jonas.Ingebretsen (Feb 16, 2021)

I am unable to max out my 48 core :\ I've tried.


----------

