# And then this happened



## Mike Greene (Jul 1, 2017)

I don’t think it would be an overstatement to say things have gotten a bit testy the last couple weeks regarding the most recent fundraiser. Speaking for myself, I’ve been uncomfortable about the fundraisers for a couple years now, and like many others, I was less than satisfied by the accounting explanation for this one, as well as how the entire episode was handled. Many people have complaints and/or criticisms, and IMO, most of these criticisms are justified. To be blunt … it was not Frederick’s finest hour.

There are a few things that should be said, though. To Frederick’s credit, he’s stayed true to the philosophy of the forum and everyone has been given a chance to have their say. There may have been a couple miscues here and there, including a mistaken (IMO) temporary banning of Mario, but you gotta admit, when it comes to not censoring dissent, Frederick walked the walk. He got pounded pretty good, but he let it all stand. I could name several other forums (two of which I personally have been banned from) where that is not the case.

I’ve been speaking with Fredrick and what upsets him more than what’s being said about _him_ is that he hates seeing the _forum_ taking a hit in all this. Fredrick is 100% serious when he talks about the vision he had 13 years ago for this forum. He truly is a _"Lets make the world a better place"_ kind of guy. This will sound like hyperbole, but Frederick is one of the most ethical and sincere people I know. (Mind you, I work in Hollywood, so the bar for ethics and sincerity is pretty low. Sorry, couldn’t resist a little joke there.)

Don’t get me wrong, mistakes were definitely made, and things certainly snowballed. Believe me, I was pissed, too, starting with Mario’s banning. We kinda had it out over that one. I tried to explain that he was misinterpreting what Mario wrote, but Frederick really believes his wife was attacked. He’s mistaken IMO, but he believes what he believes, and if he thinks his wife was attacked, it’s hard to fault a guy for defending her. Especially when you bear in mind he’s allowed all sorts of things to be said about _him_. It’s not that _he’s_ thin skinned, it was only when he believed his wife got dragged in that he reacted. I’m not saying it was right, I’m just saying that was the mindset.

The other major issue for many (including me) was the lack of transparency, as well as a lack of communication. I’ve come to learn, though, that there are some behind-the-scenes factors in play that will make a full reveal very unlikely. I hate to sound so cryptic, but I can’t go into further detail. I’m not saying I’m completely satisfied, mind you, because like I said, mistakes were definitely made. As in _“What are you doing?!?”_ mistakes that still annoy me. And the silence was maddening. But I’m hoping that this is a dustup we can put behind us, even if no further explanations ever come.

Frederick is credited with starting VI-Control, but the truth is that it was also started by his wife, Cindy. (Although I’m not sure if they were married yet at the time.) Frederick was the visionary, but it was Cindy who made things work. Frederick had the heart, but it was Cindy who had the head for business. Many of us in Los Angles had the privilege of meeting Cindy when they’d come out here. She was great.

When Cindy passed away a few years ago, many of us noticed that things didn’t run quite as sharply as they used to. I suspect Cindy was the business “filter” who might say, _“I don’t know Frederick, I don’t think that’s such a good idea.”_

With all due respect to Frederick, I think he struggled to make the forum run without her. His heart is definitely in the right place, but I think running the forum, now for 13 years, has become a bit overwhelming and stressful, because he doesn’t have the business expertise, nor does he have the funds to solve problems by simply throwing money at them. I think he hit a breaking point. Frederick is truly one of the nicest and honest guys you’ll ever meet, but frustration, and I’m guessing burnout as well, set in. I’m sure many of us have also been there, where we just can't bring ourselves to answer another email or put out another fire.

So, I made an offer to buy the forum a couple weeks ago when I thought Frederick might need a way out. I felt I have the resources to do handle issues as they arise and the business experience to make (hopefully) sound decisions. More importantly, as an old-timer who’s been with the forum almost from the beginning, I understand and believe in the philosophy of the forum, so I’m a guy who will want to keep the forum on course.

We came to an agreement yesterday. Contracts aren’t yet signed and payment has not yet been made (so for now, I still own that little red car in the avatar, although now I'll have to replace it with a Yugo), but we have a handshake deal and I’m posting now in hopes that we, as a forum, can move on sooner rather than later. Are all questions answered? Nope, and I can understand some people may still be frustrated by that, but this is the best I can offer.

To that end, if anyone feels they were mislead and gave money they wished they hadn’t, either to the recent fundraiser of for any Premium subscriptions, let me know and I will send you your money back out of my own pocket. Yes, I realize adding the words _“out of my own pocket”_ adds a little guilt trip to the offer, but truly, if you feel duped, I can handle the expense. Restoring good vibes is worth the money to me.

Regarding the future of the forum, I’m optimistically hoping we can all hit a big Reset button to a time before the drama began. I want things to be like they were. There will be no further fundraisers. There won’t be a Premium section. (Although it will take some time to get rid of the Premium button. Again, if you paid, just tell me and I’ll refund you.)

I’m also going to try to limit the emails to maybe one per month. (The email barrage really annoyed me, too.) Although who knows, at some point, we may do a KVR style weekly newsletter with release announcements and stuff. That would be way in the future, though. You know, like so far in the future that it would be after we release the Realivox Men. I’m talkin’ WAY in the future! 

Oh wait, did I just sneak in a plug for my business? Yeah, I guess I did, although I thought it was a pretty good joke, and you know how I struggle to resist a good joke. But more to the point, yes, I’ll be the first to admit that it’s a little weird for a developer to own the forum. Especially a developer with such amazing products as what Realitone has to offer! (Dang, I did it again.)

Okay, no more jokes. I promise. Anyway, for those concerned that I’m doing this so I can somehow gain special opportunities for my company, I’ll mention that I’ve already been a moderator here for 5 or 6 years. I’ve never edited, deleted, or modified any post regarding my company. That won’t change.

Further, I joined this forum long before I started Realitone. Part of the reason Frederick agreed to sell to me (he did have other offers) was that he knows I have the same love for the forum and its philosophy as he does. This is a forum where moderation is very light-handed, and magically … it works! The membership here is incredible and I don’t want to do anything to change that.

So there you have it. I'm hoping this transition is a smooth one and call me a dreamer, but with a little luck, I'm hoping in a few weeks it will be as if nothing ever happened. I'm certainly open to questions, concerns, or even criticisms, so if you have 'em, bring 'em on.

Oh, and one last thing. In case any IRS people are reading this, it is not actually me who is buying the forum. It will be a separate LLC where Mike Greene is a mere worker drone. So back off!


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## Farkle (Jul 1, 2017)

Mike, thank you for this post. As another old timer (Been here since 2005), I do see where our forum was, where it is, and where it can go. I think this is a good thing for all parties involved. Please let me know if I can help out in any way. My best to both you, and Fred!

Mike


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## mac (Jul 1, 2017)

I vote that it's time for @Mike Greene to step down. Oh wait, wrong thread...


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 1, 2017)

Oh, so this means we can start hating on Mike now? Bring on the stones!
Joking aside. Good luck to you guys. I'm faithful that you can make V.I. Control great again.


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## Jaap (Jul 1, 2017)

Your post on the "other" place changed my way of seeing things already a bit and putting things in perspective about Frederick and this is really nice to see and hear Mike!
Glad it came to this and looking forward to see VI go on


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jul 1, 2017)

Just as long as this new responsibility in no way diminishes the flow of your fantastic NAMM reports!

Happy to welcome you, Grand Poobah. Much water has flowed since the start of this forum, but it, like you on good days, has stood the test of time. I wish Fred only the best in his future endeavours, and wish you and us much success going forward. I think you'll be a real(itone)ly great admin.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 1, 2017)

Wow!. The good news is that Mike is a great guy, smart as hell, and well intentioned. From my point of view, and I know that I am in the minority, in our discussions he does not much believe in moderation or holding people accountable to rules where I think that if a rule is posted, there should be swift consequences for violating them: first time a warning, second time a suspension, third time a ban. No exceptions, not even me. Personal attacks should be verboten.

We shall see how it plays out, but all things considered, I think this is very good news for the future of this forum.

Way to go, Big Fella.


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## chillbot (Jul 1, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> No exceptions, _not even me_.


Wow, that's so big of you, Jay!

Congrats on your new toy Mike Greene. Should we invite Deniz over?


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 1, 2017)

Good news, all the best to you, Mike.


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## lucor (Jul 1, 2017)

I honestly couldn't imagine anyone better to take over. All the best, Mike.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 1, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Wow, that's so big of you, Jay!



Thanks. After all, it is almost universally accepted that I am the only indispensable member.


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## kgdrum (Jul 1, 2017)

+1 Wow!
Interesting news,good luck with this.


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## muk (Jul 1, 2017)

Thank you for taking over Mike, and the best of luck to you.


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## guydoingmusic (Jul 1, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Thanks. After all, it is almost universally accepted that I am the only indispensable member.


Who was it that won "Most Unforgettable Forum Member"? I can't seem to remember... 

Congrats, Mike and Frederick!! Best of luck to both!


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## Alatar (Jul 1, 2017)

Wow, that was unexpected. I really thought Fredrick would continue running the place. 

Sad to see Fredrick go, but glad to hear you are in, Mike.


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## zolhof (Jul 1, 2017)

This is fantastic news! VI-C had some bad moments these past couple of weeks but the outcome couldn't be any more satisfying. Congratulations, Mike, I'm really happy for you!

To those new or unaware of who Mike is, let me just say he's an adorable and kind hearted guy. Honest to the core. The forum will be in good hands. And yes, Realitone is nothing short of amazing, with 4th of July coming nothing says "God bless America" more than balls to the wall male vocal sample libraries, so stay tuned for Realivox - The Men. Dang it.

VI-Control 3.0, baby!


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## synthpunk (Jul 1, 2017)

Congratulations and good luck with the new endeavor Mike. Does this mean now cookies at NAMM is a conflict of interest?


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## heisenberg (Jul 1, 2017)

Good news all around for not only, Mike, Frederick and the forum users but also the developers (advertisers).

There needs to be a brief statement on this news, a brief one, and it should be done pronto. I hope the ink on the contract is imminent. This thread could be referenced in the brief announcement so people can get the details and inner thoughts on this, if they so wish.


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## tack (Jul 1, 2017)

I, for one, welcome our new worker drone overlords!


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## Replicant (Jul 1, 2017)

The hero we need, but not the one we deserve.


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## Oliver (Jul 1, 2017)

great news. Sorry Fred, i only "knew" you for some time, but this is a good solution.
And welcome Mike! (i like your playthrough videos!)


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## Zhao Shen (Jul 1, 2017)

Mike Greene said:


> I don’t think it would be an overstatement to say things have gotten a bit testy the last couple weeks regarding the most recent fundraiser. Speaking for myself, I’ve been uncomfortable about the fundraisers for a couple years now, and like many others, I was less than satisfied by the accounting explanation for this one, as well as how the entire episode was handled. Many people have complaints and/or criticisms, and IMO, most of these criticisms are justified. To be blunt … it was not Frederick’s finest hour.
> 
> There are a few things that should be said, though. To Frederick’s credit, he’s stayed true to the philosophy of the forum and everyone has been given a chance to have their say. There may have been a couple miscues here and there, including a mistaken (IMO) temporary banning of Mario, but you gotta admit, when it comes to not censoring dissent, Frederick walked the walk. He got pounded pretty good, but he let it all stand. I could name several other forums (two of which I personally have been banned from) where that is not the case.
> 
> ...



Hey Mike, wonderful post - I look forward to seeing where VI goes from here 

Anyway, I was wondering if you would be interested in putting some of VI's funds into snagging some libraries (maybe at discount from the developers?) to hold proper quarterly giveaways - no donations involved. It'd be quite the marketing tool for this forum (and probably some developers as well).


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## jonnybutter (Jul 1, 2017)

Only been here for less than a year, but VI-C has become almost indispensable to me in that time! So happy it's not going away or radically changing. Thanks to everyone who makes it so good


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## TGV (Jul 1, 2017)

Thanks Frederick, and thanks Mike.


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## mac (Jul 1, 2017)

@Mike Greene Before you run off to lead an admin lifestyle, could you possibly offer some advice on this? http://vi-control.net/community/threads/cant-stop-email-notifications.63209/


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jul 1, 2017)

Looking forward to what you have in stock for VI!


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## fiestared (Jul 1, 2017)

The best news of the day, and a good solution for the forum, Frederick and us... Sincerely good Luck Mike !


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## stixman (Jul 1, 2017)

Onwards and upwards


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## Puzzlefactory (Jul 1, 2017)

I quite liked some of Fred's ideas (mixed with my own daydreams). 

An orchestral version of macprovideo/ask audio, would have me dipping into my wallet, that's for sure.


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## Mike Greene (Jul 1, 2017)

Thank you all very much for the kind words on this. As you might imagine, I was a little worried about how an announcement like this might be received, so for the first couple hours at least, it’s big a relief to know that there is support. And also pretty cool to see a few _older_-timers than me chime in. 



thereus said:


> Just one question. Can you assure us that whatever deal you have made will not see Fred unable to cover whatever liabilities he may be left with as a result of managing/mismanaging the forum once everything is settled down? It would be viciously ironic if he ended up needing a freakin' fundraiser to meet his legal bills.


I assume this is tongue in cheek, but if not, I can't divulge details of the deal, but rest assured, if the amount doesn't cover whatever obligations may still exist, a fundraiser won't make a dent, either.



heisenberg said:


> There needs to be a brief statement on this news, a brief one, and it should be done pronto. I hope the ink on the contract is imminent. This thread could be referenced in the brief announcement so people can get the details and inner thoughts on this, if they so wish.


Sounds good to me, but other than here, I'm not sure where you're thinking the announcement should be posted?



Zhao Shen said:


> Anyway, I was wondering if you would be interested in putting some of VI's funds into snagging some libraries (maybe at discount from the developers?) to hold proper quarterly giveaways - no donations involved. It'd be quite the marketing tool for this forum (and probably some developers as well).


That's a nice idea. We'd probably need to wait a while before proposing it, though, because I'm a little reluctant at the moment to ask developers for donations.



mac said:


> @Mike Greene Before you run off to lead an admin lifestyle, could you possibly offer some advice on this? http://vi-control.net/community/threads/cant-stop-email-notifications.63209/


And as my first act of being a bad forum owner ... I have no idea how to fix that. It will be a while before I get the actual keys to the car, let alone understand how to actually drive it. Hopefully Andre is around and can help, but I'm not sure what the status of that is, either. He certainly has my permission to do whatever is necessary, but the forum is still actually _owned_ by Frederick, so I can't make any executive decisions.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jul 1, 2017)

Congrats Mike!
Good to know VI-C stays in the family.
Somehow I get the feeling we'll get good comedic moments going forward...
and it may be premature yet, but many thanks to Frederick for giving us an incredible 12 years!


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## Polkasound (Jul 1, 2017)

Mike, thank you for what you are doing for the VI-C community. I believe the forum is being placed in the right hands. Your offer to personally refund anyone who felt mislead into donating is nothing short of admirable.

And thank you, Frederick, for doing what you believe is right, as hard as that may be. By selling VI-C to Mike, you're creating a perfect opportunity for all of us to press the reset button and restore normalcy to this forum. Maybe running a business was not your strongest skill, but you had the drive and ambition to make your dream come true, and after all these years, VI-Control is still a thriving institution for thousands of composers. Maybe things didn't end the way you wanted, but that won't diminish everything you have done. I sure hope you'll stick around. Just because you'll no longer hold the keys doesn't mean the door won't always be open.


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## mac (Jul 1, 2017)

Mike Greene said:


> And as my first act of being a bad forum owner ... I have no idea how to fix that. It will be a while before I get the actual keys to the car, let alone understand how to actually drive it. Hopefully Andre is around and can help, but I'm not sure what the status of that is, either. He certainly has my permission to do whatever is necessary, but the forum is still actually _owned_ by Frederick, so I can't make any executive decisions.



Either fix it, or immediately post your bank statements from the last 24 months. Your life belongs to us now.


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## chrisr (Jul 1, 2017)

Mike, you are the absolute epitome of what's great about this forum and I'm delighted to hear this news. I think there will be a groundswell of support and goodwill to you and the forum... and Kudos to Frederick for choosing this path... speaks volumes about his genuine good intentions.


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## Smikes77 (Jul 1, 2017)

Couldn't think of a better person. Looking forward to onwards and upwards. Congrats @Mike Greene


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## jonathanparham (Jul 1, 2017)

mac said:


> @Mike Greene Before you run off to lead an admin lifestyle, could you possibly offer some advice on this? http://vi-control.net/community/threads/cant-stop-email-notifications.63209/


+1 been happening to me for a while now.

Congrats on the transition.


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## soundbylaura (Jul 1, 2017)

Well done, Mike, and well done, Frederick.


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## R. Soul (Jul 1, 2017)

Congrats Mike. 
All things considered, this is probably the best possible outcome for the community.


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## hummingbird (Jul 1, 2017)

This is great news, thanks Mike. As matter of fact, Fredrick graciously returned my fundraiser donation on request, without any quibble. I respect that.


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## germancomponist (Jul 1, 2017)

I knew that it will end in a very good way, yes, I was sure!

And to Frederick: I wish you all my best for you in the future! (And yes, this whish comes out of my heart!)


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## rJames (Jul 1, 2017)

Thanks Mike. It sounds like the perfect solution to all of this (I first saw one of these threads last night). Fredericks heart was always in the right place. He gave us a home when Northernsounds went South (pun intended). With only a bit of exaggeration, I can say that everything I know about what I now do for a living, I learned here or through connections I made here. The king is dead (or sold the business), long live the king!


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## nordicguy (Jul 1, 2017)

That is real great news!
Best luck to you Mr. Mike Green.


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## synthpunk (Jul 1, 2017)

Mike will be sending out individual special brownies to each of the 14,000 members this week


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## Zhao Shen (Jul 1, 2017)

Mike Greene said:


> That's a nice idea. We'd probably need to wait a while before proposing it, though, because I'm a little reluctant at the moment to ask developers for donations.



Of course, it's not time-sensitive at all. Just something to think about for the future


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## IoannisGutevas (Jul 1, 2017)

Mike Greene said:


> I don’t think it would be an overstatement to say things have gotten a bit testy the last couple weeks regarding the most recent fundraiser. Speaking for myself, I’ve been uncomfortable about the fundraisers for a couple years now, and like many others, I was less than satisfied by the accounting explanation for this one, as well as how the entire episode was handled. Many people have complaints and/or criticisms, and IMO, most of these criticisms are justified. To be blunt … it was not Frederick’s finest hour.
> 
> There are a few things that should be said, though. To Frederick’s credit, he’s stayed true to the philosophy of the forum and everyone has been given a chance to have their say. There may have been a couple miscues here and there, including a mistaken (IMO) temporary banning of Mario, but you gotta admit, when it comes to not censoring dissent, Frederick walked the walk. He got pounded pretty good, but he let it all stand. I could name several other forums (two of which I personally have been banned from) where that is not the case.
> 
> I’ve been speaking with Fredrick and what upsets him more than what’s being said about him is that he hates seeing the forum taking a hit in all this. Fredrick is 100% serious when he talks about the vision he had 13 years ago for this forum. He truly is a "Lets make the world a better place" kind of guy. This will sound like hyperbole, but Frederick is one of the most ethical and sincere people I know. (Mind you, I work in Hollywood, so the bar for ethics and sincerity is pretty low. Sorry, couldn’t resist a little joke there.)



A very nice post Mike, but i would rather see Fredderick write it. If there is somewhere a post that i havent seen please correct me but when a captain leaves a ship without a word and especially when he claims that he loves it so much and sells it that easily and without a proper goodbye then i cant trust that he ever sought anything rather than profit by this project. Not that he owes anything to anyone but if you love something that much, at least go down with honor and a proper goodbye msg and dont let anyone clean up your mess, no matter who that other person is. The only thing that cant be bought and sold in this world is someone's dignity.

If it ever comes to that again (i hope not) dont do the same mistake Mike.

Now to the point at hand, if you can make the forum run as smooth and perfect as you make those libraries man, this forum will become even better than it ever was.

Please no more spam e-mails. One every month is enough. I was never a part of any fundraiser and the whole "please help me to run this forum by donating" drama has to end. Its irritating the least. Its just a forum, not an e-shop with a billion products.

One last thing, i told to Fredderick in the "From Fredderick" post i'll tell you too. If its not broke you dont need to fix it. This is a place where great composers can share ideas and give advice, please keep it simple, keep it good 

Those where at least my advices for you and the way a simple composer who is fairly new to this forum views things!  Good luck with your new endeavour!


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## synthpunk (Jul 1, 2017)

@Mike Greene , there should be a way to make a banner announcement at the top of the VI Control page. Andre would use this for upcoming service outage announcements. You may also want to post it in the revolution sub forum ?

And I respectively hope that both Mario and Andre will be asked to come back to the forum.


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## donbodin (Jul 1, 2017)

Mike Greene said:


> I struggle to resist a good joke. . . . Especially a developer with such amazing products as what Realitone has to offer! (Dang, I did it again.)


Will we get free jokes with the monthly email? Can we sign up for a separate "Mike's Jokes" email?

In all seriousness, I hope this works out for the best for both parties. Pre-signing congrats to you both and thank you both for your time and dedication to the community.


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## wbacer (Jul 1, 2017)

Thanks Mike for taking the reins and moving us forward.
And thank you to Fred, without his vision none of us would be here.
I'm so grateful for v.i. control, where composers from all over the world, both pro and hobbyists, can freely exchange ideas. Truly an amazing community of musicians helping musicians.


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## rose_aleria (Jul 1, 2017)

donbodin said:


> Will we get free jokes with the monthly email? Can we sign up for a separate "Mike's Jokes" email?
> 
> In all seriousness, I hope this works out for the best for both parties. Pre-signing congrats to you both and thank you both for your time and dedication to the community.


realitone
Oh, hi! Oh, what that was? That was definitely not some sneaky marketing. Nope! you must buy realitone products Service with a smile! obey realitone or suffer


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## rose_aleria (Jul 1, 2017)

In all seriousness though, this seems like a good solution 

Congratulations Mike Worth!


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## Farkle (Jul 1, 2017)

rose_aleria said:


> In all seriousness though, this seems like a good solution
> 
> Congratulations Mike Worth!



Thank you, Rose! I'm very happy to be congratulated for being Mike Worth! 

But in terms of who's buying the forum and running it, it's one of our moderators, and Realitone Sample Library developer, Mike Greene. So, congratulations to *him* also! 

Mike (Worth)


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## rose_aleria (Jul 1, 2017)

Farkle said:


> Thank you, Rose! I'm very happy to be congratulated for being Mike Worth!
> 
> But in terms of who's buying the forum and running it, it's one of our moderators, and Realitone Sample Library developer, Mike Greene. So, congratulations to *him* also!
> 
> Mike (Worth)


OMG, first in the Discord, now here!

Sorryyyy!!


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## paoling (Jul 1, 2017)

The only one possible guy that is welcomed among the user and the developer communities.


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## Kony (Jul 1, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> @Mike GreeneAnd I respectively hope that both Mario and Andre will be asked to come back to the forum.


+1


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## kaiyoti (Jul 1, 2017)

"There will be no further fundraisers"

I actually quite liked the draws. I never saw it as a fundraiser but more for getting great prizes. I wish the spirit can live on in some form or another.

However, it could just mean that I have a gambling addiction...


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## rose_aleria (Jul 1, 2017)

kaiyoti said:


> "There will be no further fundraisers"
> 
> I actually quite liked the draws. I never saw it as a fundraiser but more for getting great prizes. I wish the spirit can live on in some form or another.
> 
> However, it could just mean that I have a gambling addiction...


How would you like to win a free VI-Control Fundraiser Rehab Program? Just sign here, and here, and here, and here, and here...


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## Paul Grymaud (Jul 1, 2017)

Not understood. Can someone explain what's going on ? Thanks³


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## rose_aleria (Jul 1, 2017)

Paul Grymaud said:


> Not understood. Can someone explain what's going on ? Thanks³


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## rose_aleria (Jul 1, 2017)

Okay, okay, let's get back on the serious track..


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## windshore (Jul 1, 2017)

Wow Mike! That is great news! I am confident you'll do a great job!


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## chillbot (Jul 1, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> And I respectively hope that both Mario and Andre will be asked to come back to the forum.



Signs are pointing that way...


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## vicontrolu (Jul 1, 2017)

Great! You seduced me with your libraries, your voice and now this. I am sure this will work out..we 'll work it out!

Big thanks to Frederic too. I am sure I wouldn't be in my position without this forum's help during the past 10 years so i really wish you the best!

Long live VI Control!


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## bbunker (Jul 1, 2017)

Awesome sauce.

Of all the possible outcomes for this forum, this was one of the least anticipated (by me) but most welcomed (also by me.)

Reali-forum 3.0 here we come!!!


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## woodsdenis (Jul 1, 2017)

Sounds like the best outcome has happened. Good luck Mike.


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## d.healey (Jul 1, 2017)

vicontrolu said:


> Great! You seduced me with your libraries, your voice and now this


He does have an awesome voice. I think we need a forum rules walkthrough video


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## mverta (Jul 1, 2017)

chillbot said:


> Signs are pointing that way...



As soon as Andre got fired, I snapped him up to admin my new forum. 

But it's a big internet, and I like a hands-off vibe anyway.


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## d.healey (Jul 1, 2017)

mverta said:


> my new forum.


Oh tell me more


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## IFM (Jul 1, 2017)

Awesome Mike! Well you be ever more popular at NAMM now. Does this mean I'll get a double helping of your wife's baking in January?


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## mverta (Jul 1, 2017)

Stay tuned. Long live VI-C.


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## NoamL (Jul 1, 2017)

First, congrats Mike! Future so bright even Aragorn needs shades







Secondly, going back through all the 60 pages of discussion would probably be a huge chore, but there was a lot of good advice offered amidst all the negativity, that would still be applicable to the forum under new ownership. One of the pieces of advice I remember (from @paoling??) was to consolidate all of the paid email blasts into one weekly newsletter of offers. Small devs should be in favor of this as they get to 'piggyback' on an email that's more likely to be opened because it namechecks the biggest dev of whoever advertised that week, if you see what I mean.


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## Mike Greene (Jul 1, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> @Mike Greene , there should be a way to make a banner announcement at the top of the VI Control page. Andre would use this for upcoming service outage announcements. You may also want to post it in the revolution sub forum ?
> 
> And I respectively hope that both Mario and Andre will be asked to come back to the forum.


Both Mario and Andre know that I definitely want them here, so hopefully that will happen.

I'm reluctant to make a banner announcement, though. My thinking is that this thread will be seen by most people who have already been following the recent drama. But for people who haven't been following, I'm not sure how helpful it would be to bring it all up again to a new audience. For that matter, I don't think most people really care who actually owns the forum, as long as the forum does what it's supposed to.

With that said, honestly, I haven't thought that much about it. Maybe a bigger announcement should be made, but the sale still won't be official for a while (maybe a week or two?), so I won't be doing anything beyond this until then anyway.


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## Alohabob (Jul 1, 2017)

I agree an announcement to ownership change may draw more drama. However, I think maybe an announcement about certain changes may be good. Actually that could cause people to question why. However, posting as "VI-CONTROL" instead of your name may be worth doing as it may separate you the poster / dev from the owner or simply any admin.


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## jamwerks (Jul 1, 2017)

Thanks to Fred for your passion that brought us this far, and a warm welcome to Mike!


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## G.R. Baumann (Jul 1, 2017)

Mike Greene said:


> It will be a separate LLC where Mike Greene is a mere worker drone.



Nice time of the year to make that trip via I-40 (preferably to I-70 me thinks) a mere 40 hours drive from LA to Wilmington, DE.  

Assuming this handshake will manifest in a solid contract, Kudos to Frederick Russ for stepping down! I am sure it was the right and even more so honorable decision to make.

I don't know your stuff Mike, I don't play banjo, don't play around with artificial women, but I know you from Gearslutz and your NAMM reports, enjoyed them much.

Wishing you both a smooth transaction and success for future endeavours!

Best
Georg


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## JohnG (Jul 1, 2017)

Thanks for the years of a great forum, Frederick. Glad to see it moving into steady hands, Mike.


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## Arbee (Jul 1, 2017)

Finally some true insight and common sense.

Thanks for bringing it this far Frederick (and Cindy, and Andre) and thanks for taking it forward from here Mike.


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## Vastman (Jul 1, 2017)

Congrats, Mike and Thank you, Fred. I fell in love with this place years ago and it has become more important to me than any other community I've ever discovered...when I think of the amount of sharing we engage in it always warms my heart.

Being an artist can be a lonely adventure and the depth of my appreciation extends to everyone here that helps make this place so special...i love so many of you, have learned so much and always feel compelled to return the thoughts and insights which help us grow.

This IS the most special place I've ever come across! I remember the first time I discovered VIC and was instantly welcomed...it was a "WoW!" moment for me. Feels great to read this thread and realize that my home away from home will continue to flourish!


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## Ben H (Jul 1, 2017)

donbodin said:


> Will we get free jokes with the monthly email? Can we sign up for a separate "Mike's Jokes" email?



From now on, Mike's jokes are only going to be available in the PREMIUM section of the website.


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## Alohabob (Jul 1, 2017)

Ben H said:


> From now on, Mike's jokes are only going to be available in the PREMIUM section of the website.


Now that's funny ri-chair, I don't care who ya're


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## DMerkel (Jul 1, 2017)

Thank you Mike, and a big truckload of thanks to Frederick for having built up this online resource.


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## kgdrum (Jul 1, 2017)

G.R. Baumann said:


> I don't know your stuff Mike, don't play around with artificial women,



Please speak for yourself! I have been playing around with artificial women most of my life!


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## rose_aleria (Jul 1, 2017)

kgdrum said:


> Please speak for yourself! I have been playing around with artificial women most of my life!


"Artificial women"? like robots?


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 2, 2017)

rose_aleria said:


> "Artificial women"? like robots?



Not robots. Hollywood girls.


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## Jeast (Jul 2, 2017)

rose_aleria said:


> "Artificial women"? like robots?


Nah he means inflatable girls.

Good news! Thank you Mike for doing this, and thank you Frederick for taking this big decision. It probably was not even close to being an easy choice to make.


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## rose_aleria (Jul 2, 2017)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Not robots. Hollywood girls.


How are those artificial? :o i've never been to Hollywood


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## Replicant (Jul 2, 2017)

rose_aleria said:


> How are those artificial? :o i've never been to Hollywood



Fake nails, fake eyelashes, fake hair, fake hair colour, fake boobs, fake personality, but she's in search of a "real man".


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## Oliver (Jul 2, 2017)

there are artificial women????
oh my oh dear...we are doomed!!!!


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## rgarber (Jul 2, 2017)

Mike Greene said:


> Both Mario and Andre know that I definitely want them here, so hopefully that will happen.
> 
> I'm reluctant to make a banner announcement, though. My thinking is that this thread will be seen by most people who have already been following the recent drama. But for people who haven't been following, I'm not sure how helpful it would be to bring it all up again to a new audience. For that matter, I don't think most people really care who actually owns the forum, as long as the forum does what it's supposed to.
> 
> With that said, honestly, I haven't thought that much about it. Maybe a bigger announcement should be made, but the sale still won't be official for a while (maybe a week or two?), so I won't be doing anything beyond this until then anyway.



Being a newbie and not the most frequent visitor here I missed whatever happened but congrats on the new paygrade and I hope you do well. Love your libraries I use them frequently. Anxiously waiting for the men... samples I mean.

And where do we get these cookies???

I would mention yourself as the new owner in the news section but I would keep the reasons for it whatever happened here out of it. Just do a sports-like thing interview where you say your glad to be here and the lessons you learned in batting practice in high school were really really helpful and you couldn't have done it without the help of little ole Mrs. Greely your elementary reading teacher (or something like that). And then offer the cookies...

Good luck!

Rich


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## Brian2112 (Jul 2, 2017)

Hopefully this has worked well for everyone. As a new member, and yes, having been a moderator at Northern Sounds, I thought it best to stay as far away from everything as possible. The Owner and mods were very gracious to allow me to join here.
One thing that has become abundantly clear to me is that the members of this forum are unmatched in terms of self moderation. Even when things get tense, things get worked out. That's really not that common. This is a fine place that has been built here. So, Kudos all around!
And for once in my life, I will not end a post with strategic useage of emoticons.


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## Brian2112 (Jul 2, 2017)

Sorry, just...can't... do... it....


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## pulse (Jul 2, 2017)

Very rarely do I make comments... I'm probably just a lazy typer! I'll try to be a bit more proactive in the future 

I just wanted to say even though all this craziness has happened. I truely believe Frederick is a kind and honest person, and any of his past mistakes were just an unfortunate miscalculation of his passion to expand on his dream for VI-Control. 

What ever the case is I wish Fredrick well. VI-Control is a special place as there really is nothing else like it out there.

It has helped a lot of people including developers get a driving start in their chosen field. 

Even though I have never had a proper chat with Mike, I guess like a number of us we have gotten to know him though his wonderful posts. I feel he will do a great job running this forum and as a member and developer I will happily support his vision.

Good Luck Mate!


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 2, 2017)

thereus said:


> where does that leave Fred? I would like to know that he is ok before I cheer.



My thinking as well.


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## gpax (Jul 2, 2017)

My best to both Frederick and Mike during the passing of the mantle.


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## Tatu (Jul 2, 2017)

At this point, anything Fred says spurs conversation and accusations, so maybe he just wants to avoid all drama and return back later.

Congrats Mike and lets hope this is best for Fred, you and VI C as well.


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 2, 2017)

thereus said:


> There is nothing worse than premature congratulations.



Yes, but there is help available if you have a problem with it.....


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## Vlzmusic (Jul 2, 2017)

Sounds like a great move, if it goes through. Will hold the official congrats till later, but 100% you `ve got my support, Mike!


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## Polkasound (Jul 2, 2017)

Replicant said:


> Fake nails, fake eyelashes, fake hair, fake hair colour, fake boobs, fake personality, but she's in search of a "real man".



I demand you be banned for bringing my girlfriend into this conversation.


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## Hans Adamson (Jul 2, 2017)

Good luck Mike! Frederick could not have chosen a more suitable person to lead VI-Control. And thank you Frederick! We are all indebted to you for creating VI-Control and spending all these years developing it into what it is today.

Best wishes to both of you,
/Hans


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## Mike Greene (Jul 2, 2017)

thereus said:


> I can't help but feel a little concerned that Fred may, given his noted business sense, have been rather bounced into something that might not be good for him. Mike might be celebrating picking up a fire sale bargain, and 'cementing the deal before contracts are signed' by announcing it here himself but where does that leave Fred? I would like to know that he is ok before I cheer.





thereus said:


> At this point, the forum is still his, so it makes sense for him to announce his decision. This one-sided announcement has the whiff of strong arm tactics, to be honest. If the deal is not finalised, then announcing that it is is a very naughty tactic to bounce him into accepting before he is 100% ready. I've seen it 100 times.
> 
> Mike, did Fred agree to your announcement? Has he had proper time to seek and consider other offers? Is he as sure as you are that the deal is complete? Does he still have the right to change his mind?
> 
> ...


This is a valid question. In fact, I think it's touching that people would be concerned for Frederick in this way. And no, I'm not at all offended, since most people don't really know me, so I'll be the first to admit that it's completely possible that a guy in my position could be taking advantage of Frederick when he's in a vulnerable position. (And of course, the people who _do_ know me are probably saying, _"Run, Frederick, Run!!!"_  )

Here's how things went down. 2 or 3 weeks ago, when drama started to escalate, I made an offer to buy the forum. Frederick is a friend and I assure you, it wasn't a fire-sale price. My intention was to offer a way to reset things, but still make economic sense for both Frederick and me. FWIW, several other people made offers as well at that time.

A few days later, he turned all the offers down. I was both disappointed and relieved. Disappointed because I disagree pretty strongly with a few of his decisions, and cocky bastard that I am, I would love to take over and do everything my way. But also relieved, because this forum isn't nearly as profitable as some of the estimates posted, and the last thing I need right now is to get dragged into another "job." Plus ... I hadn't yet told my wife about any of this. 

Then on Tuesday of this last week, he called and wanted to discuss selling after all, for the reasons explained in my opening post. We decided to take a day or two so we could both think about it (and so I could tell my wife!) We talked very briefly on Thursday, then a long conversation on Friday morning (two days ago) to agree to the deal and discuss how to move forward. (As an aside, I did tell my wife on Wednesday that I was thinking about buying the forum, but I didn't tell her the amount. She didn't ask, so I didn't offer. When I called her on Friday to tell her we made the deal, I told her how much and ... well, _there's_ a story for another time.  )

During this Friday conversation, we discussed the immediate game plan. Signing contracts and sending a check won't be quick, so although I agree completely that under ideal circumstances, this announcement should have waited until the ink was dry, we both felt it was more important to stop the bleeding ASAP. Members were defecting and advertisers were talking about leaving as well, so there was some urgency to this.

So we decided that I would first tell the developers what was going on, then I would draw up a draft of a contract and start that ball rolling, and finally, I would make an announcement here. I have to emphasize, this was _our_ plan, not just _my_ plan. I thought I could do all that on Friday, but I didn't finish the post here until Saturday morning.

To be clear, until contracts are signed and payment made, Frederick is still the legal owner of this forum and he's not obligated to do anything. If he decides to change his mind, I would be disappointed and annoyed about how much time I've just wasted, but I would accept that. I don't think there's anything I could do even if I _didn't_ want to accept it. We have a handshake-over-the-phone deal, but Frederick is my friend, so the last thing I would want to do is take his baby if he's had a change of heart. In fact, I think it's largely because of the respect we have for each other that he accepted my offer in the first place.

One other thing I should add is that I may have given an impression that Frederick is worse at business than he really is. He's actually a very bright guy, and many of the things that I would consider to be "business mistakes" are my _opinions_. It could be _me_ who's wrong on some of these things, so I regret that I may have overstated some things in the opening post. Frederick is no dummy, plus he does have counsel, so he wouldn't accept a bad offer.

I hope that helps explain things.


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## Spip (Jul 2, 2017)

Congratulations ! 
I'm really happy. We're in good hands...


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## AllanH (Jul 2, 2017)

This is great news. Thank @Mike Greene for stepping up. I truly appreciate your initiative and hope this can be a turning point for VI-C.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 2, 2017)

I just found this thread. We've been discussing all of this at the other place, so I'll just echo what I said over there-Mike is perfect for this. I hope the deal gets signed and sealed.

If so, best of luck with it Mike!... and best regards to Frederick who started this crazy community of grumbly nutbags (like me.) If not for Frederick, I wouldn't have known a lot of people who I now genuinely value (except Jay Asher, of course.) Despite all of the acrimony (yes, some of it was deserved) I believe in debt and acknowledgement, and I owe a debt of gratitude to Frederick, who gave me far more than whatever he might have taken. Now I've acknowledged it.


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## afterlight82 (Jul 2, 2017)

Super glad to hear it. The issue has always been, although hard to quantify and seemingly pretty serious from some of what appeared to be true from the facts posted, one step away from being fixed, whether he was at helm or you. Whichever it ends up being looking forward to it all being sorted! It's a great forum and he started something really fantastic, nobody here ever really wished him ill.


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## desert (Jul 2, 2017)

Now _THIS _is game changing!


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## G.R. Baumann (Jul 3, 2017)

FWIW ...before any legal documents are signed Mike said:



Mike Greene said:


> To that end, if anyone feels they were mislead and gave money they wished they hadn’t, either to the recent fundraiser of for any Premium subscriptions, let me know and I will send you your money back out of my own pocket.



I do believe that Mike's intentions are not exclusive to take over a moderately profitable forum in crisis, from what he wrote, and from what my gut tells me, I believe that ultimately he is motivated to offer Fred a way out of this self-inflicted harm.

To sign these contracts requires solid due dilligence and this does not happen in a few hours, it will take a few weeks to sort all that out.

I am reasonably confident that Mike is not taking advantage of this situation for hawkish investment reasons.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jul 3, 2017)

Thank you, Mike! For doing this, and for all your wonderful products and videos. 

Coincidentally, I had begun a project with Realivox Blue singing all 30+ pages of the original post, accompanied by the Ladies and RealiBanjo, as a way of working my way through my trauma. Thanks to you, I have abandoned it. It's time for me to move on.


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## mouse (Jul 3, 2017)

Congrats this is great news for all!


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## Hannes_F (Jul 4, 2017)

I was hoping this would come about. All the best to both of you, @Mike Greene and @Frederick Russ !


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## Astronaut FX (Jul 4, 2017)

I'm glad to hear that VIC will continue on. I can't help feeling like Fred may be losing something he built simply because of a mob like reaction to what may have been nothing more sinister than some bad business decisions, and a vision that wasn't quite in alignment with membership. Either way, I appreciate what Fred built here, and wish him no personal ill will. Good luck moving forward Mike.


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## marclawsonmusic (Jul 4, 2017)

All the best to both Mike and Fred. Onward and upward as they say.


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## jeffc (Jul 4, 2017)

Very cool Mike, seems like the perfect solution for everyone.


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## ghobii (Jul 5, 2017)

Free Realitone libraries for all!


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## Lassi Tani (Jul 5, 2017)

Very happy about the news! I was already checking other forums, but now I'm staying.

It must have been a really tough decision for Fred. Best wishes to Fred and Mike!


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## rrichard63 (Jul 5, 2017)

Astronaut FX said:


> ... a vision that wasn't quite in alignment with membership ...


To me, this is the crux of the matter. Without the difference in visions for the forum, the bad business decisions would have been an issue but not a potentially fatal one.


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## fitzo (Jul 5, 2017)

Best wishes moving forward, Mike and Frederick.


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## Kaan Guner (Jul 5, 2017)

Good news! I did register to The Sound Board and plan on being a regular member there. And with @mverta recommending RedBanned that place too is a no-brainer for me. But this news is what I needed to continue to be a regular on Vi-C.

Now this is a problem I think not mine only. Am i going to be a professional forum member or a composer :(


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## Rohann (Jul 6, 2017)

Kaan Guner said:


> Good news! I did register to The Sound Board and plan on being a regular member there. And with @mverta recommending RedBanned that place too is a no-brainer for me. But this news is what I needed to continue to be a regular on Vi-C.
> 
> *Now this is a problem I think not mine only. Am i going to be a professional forum member or a composer :(*


If I ever start to delve into conversations that don't apply to music (i.e. like today with AI), I usually take a break for a few days. The internet is a distraction machine.


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## creativeforge (Jul 6, 2017)

thereus said:


> Is somebody going to invite ED back then or is his dramatic flounce permanent?



Just to let you know that he has been reinstated a few days after. I saw him comment once or twice since.


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## Hans Adamson (Jul 7, 2017)

Frederick's announcement:

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/announcement.63350/


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## Ian Dorsch (Jul 7, 2017)

This is all very good news, I think. Thanks for taking this on, Mike.


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## Mystic (Jul 7, 2017)

Thanks for this, Mike. The good news is that things are already looking to be on a positive judging by the response. I'm happy to see things getting back on track.


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## Norman (Jul 14, 2017)

I echo what others have said in being sad to see Frederick go, and I wish him, and Mike, all the best wishes for their careers and lives.


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## ptrickf (Jul 15, 2017)

Thanks Mike.


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## TheUnfinished (Jul 15, 2017)

What did I miss?



I'm kidding...


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## Jaap (Jul 15, 2017)

TheUnfinished said:


> What did I miss?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm kidding...



More then enough drama to generate ideas for at least 10 soundsets


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## Rohann (Jul 21, 2017)

Mike Greene said:


> I don’t think it would be an overstatement to say things have gotten a bit testy the last couple weeks regarding the most recent fundraiser. Speaking for myself, I’ve been uncomfortable about the fundraisers for a couple years now, and like many others, I was less than satisfied by the accounting explanation for this one, as well as how the entire episode was handled. Many people have complaints and/or criticisms, and IMO, most of these criticisms are justified. To be blunt … it was not Frederick’s finest hour.
> 
> There are a few things that should be said, though. To Frederick’s credit, he’s stayed true to the philosophy of the forum and everyone has been given a chance to have their say. There may have been a couple miscues here and there, including a mistaken (IMO) temporary banning of Mario, but you gotta admit, when it comes to not censoring dissent, Frederick walked the walk. He got pounded pretty good, but he let it all stand. I could name several other forums (two of which I personally have been banned from) where that is not the case.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this post.

I'm in an interesting position on this end -- I signed up for 2 installments of $25, and the latest just went out after all this surfaced. On the one hand, I agreed to it initially which I would assume is binding in some form (plus I did win [although I have yet to be contacted from the company] so it's hard to complain here), but on the other hand, it was largely on false pretense.

I'm not really sure what to make of it, or if it'll be refunded, but I'd much rather that payment have gone to the developer instead, or actually to the forum. Anyone else experienced this?


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## GP_Hawk (Jul 24, 2017)

Moving forward, all the best to Frederick and congrats Mike for taking your valuable time as a developer and over seeing the forum.


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## Alohabob (Jul 25, 2017)

Rohann said:


> Thanks for this post.
> 
> I'm in an interesting position on this end -- I signed up for 2 installments of $25, and the latest just went out after all this surfaced. On the one hand, I agreed to it initially which I would assume is binding in some form (plus I did win [although I have yet to be contacted from the company] so it's hard to complain here), but on the other hand, it was largely on false pretense.
> 
> I'm not really sure what to make of it, or if it'll be refunded, but I'd much rather that payment have gone to the developer instead, or actually to the forum. Anyone else experienced this?


Others that have requested refunds have gotten them, so if you want one, ask. However, I don't know if they will withhold your prize. I'd contact about the prize as well. I've won in the past and it didn't take that long.


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## Rohann (Aug 29, 2017)

Alohabob said:


> Others that have requested refunds have gotten them, so if you want one, ask. However, I don't know if they will withhold your prize. I'd contact about the prize as well. I've won in the past and it didn't take that long.


The refund, as far as I understand it, is coming out of pocket though, right? As in not a legitimate refund?

And do I contact the specific company re: the prize? I have yet to hear anything and it's been an awfully long time.


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## creativeforge (Aug 29, 2017)

Rohann said:


> The refund, as far as I understand it, is coming out of pocket though, right? As in not a legitimate refund?
> 
> And do I contact the specific company re: the prize? I have yet to hear anything and it's been an awfully long time.



Hi Rohann, as far as I know if you seek a refund, @Mike Greene would totally honor that. It would be out of his own pocket. The other party, I don't know what happened to him, or the money he raised. I suggest contacting Mike to see if he did a follow-up with Crypto Cipher concerning your prize. 

Sorry I can't be more helpful...

Best,

Andre


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## Rohann (Aug 31, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> Hi Rohann, as far as I know if you seek a refund, @Mike Greene would totally honor that. It would be out of his own pocket. The other party, I don't know what happened to him, or the money he raised. I suggest contacting Mike to see if he did a follow-up with Crypto Cipher concerning your prize.
> 
> Sorry I can't be more helpful...
> 
> ...


Thanks, I appreciate it. I'm not sure I can ask Mike for that out of good conscience, I appreciate his responsibility being demonstrated here but it's not fair to him. I'll contact him re: Crypto Cipher.


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