# What do you hear when I say God?



## lee (Mar 13, 2007)

I´d like to know what you associate with God, Divinity, Holyness, The Creator, Everlasting, Almighty, in terms of:

musical ideas
structures
rhythm
harmonies
instrumentation
sound
emotions

I´m brainstorming for a new project of mine.. 

I´m a christian btw, but am interested in your thoughts whatever religion or philosophy you believe in. 0oD 

/Johnny


----------



## lee (Mar 21, 2007)

Thanx for the tip, Frederick!

Did I just start the wrong topic in the wrong forum? I bet many would enjoy discussing musical symbolic themes and emotions of aliens, wars, countries etc.. but not God?

/Johnny


----------



## D.J. (Mar 21, 2007)

The meaning would depend entirely on context first;
God could be just another 'person' you hate,
could be the 'infinite and unknowable' 

musically I'd have choices like making God 
-the highest climax in the arc of a piece
-Silence
-the sound of a solo child singer (I once heard a record with a little kid talking as the voice of God....but it was set up very carefully)


in each case it all depends on what comes before and after musically,
setting up context.


[In western culture (and film scoring) I'd guess our audience is used to hearing things like huge wordless choir as the voice of the almighty, or the fate of mankind, apocalypse, universality, etc....]


The term God is too broad and almost without meaning until it's in context.
Big or small, specific or infinite, physical or ethereal.....
Scoring devices can't be assigned yet.


----------



## lee (Mar 21, 2007)

D.J.: You´re absolutely right, I didnt explain the context and was kind of vague.

Ok, so here´s the idea. It´ll be an audio drama which tells stories from the bible, using "only" bible verses which are used freely together ("actors" voices + foley, sfx + soundtrack.) trying to summarize some of the central stories and messages of the bible. 

The first chapter will be the "background story" about God and the angels. Basically it will tell about God being eternal, the king, sitting on the throne in heaven, and that the angels who carry out Gods orders as soon as they hear his voice, may praise him. All that said by the narrator. Then there will be a part where the devil and his evil angels start a war against God, and are kicked out of heaven, and down to earth. That part will have the narrator "tell the action" about the war, then God speak to the Devil about what he has done, has become etc, why he had to be kicked out, and the narrator speaks again about that the devil is doomed, and will be judged and put in the fireplace.

/Johnny


----------



## madbulk (Mar 21, 2007)

I think it's an interesting questions particularly since where words are so lacking, this is one of the areas where music particularly shines. 
Anyway, it does depend on context. But in a vacuum I'd be thinking an infinite calm, happy, peaceful, assured. Not glorious or majestic.

honestly, my first thought, never having noticed your avatar before was, if that beautiful baby, who resembles my own, is making a calm, happy, peaceful, assured sound -- that's really what god sounds like. But probably only to us daddies.


----------



## lee (Mar 21, 2007)

madbulk: Truly wise words of yours. You may read my post before this if you want some more context to contemplate.

When I studied composition (haha, now dont thing I`m educated) my teacher often told me my ideas were maybe a bit too symbolic, nothing that the audience would understand. When I´ve been thinking about this project, I´ve had an idea of a symbolic 7/4 rythm sign on a theme (Gods "main theme" or "main rhythm")for the absolute first part of the first chapter (see my earlier post), and transforming that theme to 4/4 (making it more understandable for the average swedish non-musician guy) when I´m using it with the character Jesus, who (believe it or not) enters the story later on. Kind of like "Jesus explains God". Dont know if this would have any of my intentioned effects on the listener what so ever though..


/Johnny, a dad


----------



## D.J. (Mar 21, 2007)

madbulk @ Wed Mar 21 said:


> I think it's an interesting questions particularly since where words are so lacking, this is one of the areas where music particularly shines.



Brian's beat me to it. The music in this case can be used to really *add* meaning.

However, this project is broad in terms of how the term 'God' will be used.
No doubt His name will mean very specific things in each story....and these will yet vary for each story.
He will be The Creator, loving father, THE LAW, anger, a being to fear......

You might approach this by creating a theme or two that can be varied easily to convey different moods, yet retain the melodic character. So we recognize the same reference no matter the 'mood'. 
I would avoid an instrument or instrumental combination for this though. You're going to need flexibility from one story to the next in scoring the various contexts for God. 

I find it ususally comes down to a very simple idea that can be stretched many ways without loosing it's integrity.


edit: looks like I'm late again.


----------



## José Herring (Mar 21, 2007)

I'm not particularly a God fearing type man but traditionally there's been a lot of church music that I really love. Back in ye olde times triplet feel signified divinity.

In film anything supernatural can be expressed with a held minor chord in root position. Then you can lift the 5th up a half step to a major chord. So cmin root to AbMaj 6-3?Ab/C in pop Jazzer language.

Personally it's more of a feeling that any specific technique. El Papal John Paul II had the best explanation of God/Christ that I've ever run across. He equated God with Love, light, spiritual wisdom, serenity. He also expressed The Christ as a spiritual state of achievement rather than "God" in any corporal sense which I thought was highly risky for conservative Christians. It being a state that anybody could feel. Those concepts are easily expressed in music but the underwriting common thread is one of serenity. You don't want your love to come across as sex, but serene love, noble but powerful in it's simplicity.

If you listen to the Requiem masses of Mozart and Brahms you'll get a good idea of what can be done. Also, you can't beat Bach's Magnificat.

Personally some of the finest music in the history of mankind has been written in the everlasting glory of God. 90% of it involving choirs. Best of luck and I hope that your exploration in this style fuels some exciting pieces. We could sure use some in this decadent materialistic age.

best,

Jose


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 21, 2007)

I don't wanna sound just flat, but combining an expression, a being, a god or anything else with rhythm and harmonies is just something YOU create.

Generally I know, you asked for inspiration, but in the end, I would say, make something cool up and explain it afterwards 

Simple and stupid example would be, God is the all, whole thing for me, so you create something in the wholetone scale through the whole cycle of fifths etc.

It may be a personal thing, but I'd rather enjoy composers sitting there after creating a full score and listen to their stories ... how did they create this and that.

I know this is not the post you have been waiting for (hahahaha), but at least another thought 


btw: I hear "Nature" when you say God.
The most complex of all things, people always try to find a special reason for why this is so and that is not - but all in all just logic, beautiful and perfect symbiosis,
:
I believe that there is just nature (earth, universe, life, everything), but it is too complex for a human brain to realize that it is just a perfect ying/yang ... no big old white man sitting on a cloud, forming little humans 

(just in case you feel offended, this is not my purpose, just my personal thoughts and hopefully inspiring on it's own way)


----------



## jrjnsn (Mar 21, 2007)

lee @ Wed Mar 21 said:


> The first chapter will be the "background story" about God and the angels. Basically it will tell about God being eternal, the king, sitting on the throne in heaven, and that the angels who carry out Gods orders as soon as they hear his voice, may praise him. All that said by the narrator. Then there will be a part where the devil and his evil angels start a war against God, and are kicked out of heaven, and down to earth. That part will have the narrator "tell the action" about the war, then God speak to the Devil about what he has done, has become etc, why he had to be kicked out, and the narrator speaks again about that the devil is doomed, and will be judged and put in the fireplace.
> 
> /Johnny



If you get a chance, you might read Tolkien's "Music of the Ainur", the first chapter of the Silmarillion. Describes a similar scenario and might give you some ideas....

---Rick


----------



## lee (Mar 21, 2007)

D.J., Jose, Waywyn, jrjnsn, I`m getting really inspired by your ideas and advice!!

Waywyn: Dont worry, I`m not offended. Actually one of the reasons I didnt explain myself so much in my first post, was because I wanted to read comments and ideas from everybody, not just from people who might share the same belief I have. Your thought about the Nature, is actually something I can relate to very much! In my case it´s more like the creation makes me interested in who and how the creator is. Like you see a beatiful and complex painting and it makes you wonder, who is this artist? 

/Johnny


----------



## rJames (Mar 21, 2007)

Here is something I picked up from EIS. It isn't EIS per se and there was a discussion about it somewhere recently. (don't know where I read it)

The article was about the sound for "aliens" not the movie title but where ever they appeared in films. The chord change that signified them in more than one movie was an chords stepping in an interval of a sharp 4 (an E6 in EIS).

It is half an octave leap. Bb maj triad to E maj triad.

But also try Bbm to Emaj or Bbmaj to Em.

The reason I mentioned the article about aliens is NOT that I am trying to be anti-relgion but because these composers were trying for something beyond reason. And God fits that bill...beyond reason but not beyond faith.


----------



## Ed (Mar 21, 2007)

lee @ Tue Mar 13 said:


> I´d like to know what you associate with God, Divinity, Holyness, The Creator, Everlasting, Almighty, in terms of:
> 
> musical ideas
> structures
> ...



John Cages 4′33″ is what I am reminded of when I think of God in musical terms. ~o)


----------



## choc0thrax (Mar 21, 2007)

Ed @ Wed Mar 21 said:


> lee @ Tue Mar 13 said:
> 
> 
> > I´d like to know what you associate with God, Divinity, Holyness, The Creator, Everlasting, Almighty, in terms of:
> ...



I think if you play that piece along with some sfx of crickets chirping really nails it.


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 26, 2007)

lee @ Wed Mar 21 said:


> Waywyn: Dont worry, I`m not offended. Actually one of the reasons I didnt explain myself so much in my first post, was because I wanted to read comments and ideas from everybody, not just from people who might share the same belief I have. Your thought about the Nature, is actually something I can relate to very much!



Thanks, that was my purpose 




lee @ Wed Mar 21 said:


> In my case it´s more like the creation makes me interested in who and how the creator is. Like you see a beatiful and complex painting and it makes you wonder, who is this artist?
> 
> /Johnny



Maybe it's another inpsiration when I say, that this is mostly the way like humans think: They create beautiful stuff like paintings, music and buildings etc. and if they are very interested they check out the artist ... now they check out nature and see all those fascinating things and the first question which comes to their mind is: who created this? 

... I find it really interesting to think about this question, ... not really to get an answer because in the end noone can answer it anyway.
It is just interesting that most people always think about everything from a humans point of view - not live or earth/universe in general.

If you relate this all to music (and spin around a bit with this thought), it would kinda fascinating for me to write something which was not created ... but just have been there forever.
Of course you created it and everyone knows that it was you, but I am just talking about the composition itself - would be a big challenge or just a weird thought.


----------



## lee (Mar 26, 2007)

rJames @ Wed Mar 21 said:


> It is half an octave leap. Bb maj triad to E maj triad.
> 
> But also try Bbm to Emaj or Bbmaj to Em.
> 
> The reason I mentioned the article about aliens is NOT that I am trying to be anti-relgion but because these composers were trying for something beyond reason. And God fits that bill...beyond reason but not beyond faith.



Thats a really nice chord progression, maybe a little bit too cliche? 



josejherring @ Wed Mar 21 said:


> Also you can't leave out the decending augmented triads resolving down to a major chord in root position.



Yeah, that´s cool too. Thanx for the tip!

Here´s one I´ve been thinking about using, really just a chord but anyway. It´s from something I wrote a long time ago for (2 flutes and) a local amateur orchestra. The intro chord looks like this: (the attachement) 

A short clip from the example and the full recording here: http://www.myspace.com/johnnystromgren

Consider the coughing women and amateurish sound a bonus! :lol:


----------



## lee (Mar 26, 2007)

Waywyn @ Mon Mar 26 said:


> If you relate this all to music (and spin around a bit with this thought), it would kinda fascinating for me to write something which was not created ... but just have been there forever.
> Of course you created it and everyone knows that it was you, but I am just talking about the composition itself - would be a big challenge or just a weird thought.



That´s an exciting thought! Maybe putting more mathematics (or formulas inspired by nature/science) into your music could be a way of achieving this? Importing a system that has always (as long as nature existed) been there, translating it to music.

I dont want to start a God vs no God -discussion (maybe I just did  ), but to me looking for the creator of things is what I consider logic, but that´s my personal opinion. It has been called the cosmological argument for the existance of God, and you can read more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument

I dont believe you can prove God exists, but I think there are some pretty good arguments.


/Johnny


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 26, 2007)

Haha, no you didn't start a God/no God discussion.

.. and even if, the discussion only ends bad if people insist on their thought and think they are right. (thats so sad about extremists in lots of religions)

I personally respect everyone what he believes in and of course I am not the guy who wants to explain it all by math or nature.

But it's in humans nature to seek a reason behind everything ... and the most fascinating question is without doubt: who did everything 

If you put it down to the facts, all we have are some old books, scrolls, papers and carved to stone signs. Some are important, some are less important, but if you reduce it to one fact ... we now nothing, just having a few (written) words from our ancients.

If you go back in time, people believed in several Gods for nature, because they couldn't explain thunderstorms ... people believed the earth is a plate and the centre of the universe. There have been so many assumptions and still are ...

... but what I basically wanna say is, no matter how far science develops and no matter what we discover and explore, we will have millions of questions more and always stay 1cm before the line to solve everything - in my opinion this will never change 

I find it terrible that extremists completely instist that they are right and it's actually pretty sad that people are being killed only because someone thinks he is right (and is just convinced by it ... he doesn't KNOW it).

I am just telling all this, because I want to know when the time is there, that all people understand that everything is the same anyway, no matter if it's Allah, God, Ra, Odin or Nature etc.


The Wikipedia link looks pretty interesting and I will definitely take some time and read it, because I am always interested to talk and discuss about that (maybe sometimes too much ) .... thanks for sharing!

Well, I didn't want to hijack or so and I know that I am more the Pantheist and believer in myself, but I felt like talking about all this


----------



## lee (Mar 26, 2007)

You hijacked my thread Waywyn! And I hate everybody who dont believe like I do. :twisted: 

Just kidding. Sick humour, I know.

Actually, I think I´m kind of extremistic since I think I´m right (at least in some aspects)! But I respect your belief and would never just say "hey the way you think is so stupid". I think your thoughts are interesting and I think it´s exciting if someone makes me reconsider my own belief and ideas about life. If God is real, he can "stand" or put up with arguments, questions and doubts. And the arguments for the existanse of Him, should be strong enough. If God isnt real, I dont wanna believe in him.

0oD 

What do you think about the chord I wrote about in the post before?

/Johnny


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 26, 2007)

lee @ Mon Mar 26 said:


> You hijacked my thread Waywyn! And I hate everybody who dont believe like I do. :twisted:
> 
> Just kidding. Sick humour, I know.
> 
> ...



Haha o-[][]-o 

Sorry, I didn't write anything to it, but I like it a lot. Sounds mystique, but nice and warm at the same time.

As from another point of view ... from a guitar players one  ... I would suggest to listen to Allan Holdsworth. This guy is not even creating weird and superbeautiful chords, but he also does very very instense progressions ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws3GARF9kEE


----------



## lee (Mar 26, 2007)

Waywyn @ Mon Mar 26 said:


> Haha o-[][]-o
> 
> Sorry, I didn't write anything to it, but I like it a lot. Sounds mystique, but nice and warm at the same time.
> 
> ...



Thanx for the kind words. Dont have headphones where I`m at at the moment, but will check it out later!

/Johnny


----------



## DrDr (Mar 28, 2007)

Hi,

just want to go back to the main thought of this posting ... o 

When I think of God in musical terms I must think of the "burning bush" cue from "The prince of egypt" by Hans Zimmer. If you know the movie and remember the whole scene where God spokes to Moses - it is just great and fits so well.

I think some light oriental sounds can be brought in too because he is the God of Israel.

Cheers
Dietmar


----------



## lee (Mar 28, 2007)

DrDr @ Wed Mar 28 said:


> Hi,
> 
> just want to go back to the main thought of this posting ... o
> 
> ...



I agree totally with you, DrDr. Though I nowadays want to create my own "sound", rather than trying to imitate Zimmer, I´ve been inspired alot before by his music and that cue in perticular.

Faures Requiem is something I´ve also been listening alot to, and been inspired by. Those harmonies! Gotta love em. Not sure I will hire a big choir though, or buy a big choir library.

I intend to use oriental instruments, and use israelian music as an inspiration for some parts of the stories. One reason is the bible tells alot about the israelites, but to use it as when describing God could also be a good idea!


----------



## Ed (Mar 29, 2007)

lee @ Mon Mar 26 said:


> I dont want to start a God vs no God -discussion (maybe I just did  ), but to me looking for the creator of things is what I consider logic, but that´s my personal opinion. It has been called the cosmological argument for the existance of God, and you can read more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument



"First Cause" argument is essentially "something cant come from nothing". But we have no way to define "nothing" so the argument means nothing. The reason is why cant we apply the same logic to God? Because God is "outside the universe" they say, we cant apply our rules to how God works. Well, there you go then. You cant allow for special pleading to make your argument work for no reason at all.



> I think there are some pretty good arguments.



I think Ive heard every argument there is to hear, and I really disagree.


----------



## lee (Apr 3, 2007)

Ed @ Thu Mar 29 said:


> lee @ Mon Mar 26 said:
> 
> 
> > I dont want to start a God vs no God -discussion (maybe I just did  ), but to me looking for the creator of things is what I consider logic, but that´s my personal opinion. It has been called the cosmological argument for the existance of God, and you can read more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument
> ...



I totally respect your arguments, Ed. I do believe, however, that you dont see the entire picture (surprise  ) The cosmological argument is built upon the thesis that everything that has a beginning, has a cause outside itself. Not that everything, including God, has a cause. Thats why God must be "outside the universe". But couldnt the universe existed forever? There are more than one scientist today that believe that the universe hasnt existed forever. It has a beginning, which some people call Big Bang. Actually everything in the universe is dependant on something else to exist, there are no independant things. The only sufficient cause, for the universe to begin, and for every single part of the universe to exist, is something thats self-existing, eternal (no beginning, no end) and totally independant, God.

/Johnny


----------



## david robinson (Apr 3, 2007)

God is everything and everybody, like it or no.
Composers generally "describe God" with high etherial strings and choirs, etc. so the audience "gets" the picture.(purity)
God is love, unspoken love. Music is inadequate to express the Almighty.
just my 1.5 dracma's.


----------



## Ed (Apr 4, 2007)

Hi lee,



lee @ Tue Apr 03 said:


> I totally respect your arguments, Ed. I do believe, however, that you dont see the entire picture (surprise  ) The cosmological argument is built upon the thesis that everything that has a beginning, has a cause outside itself. Not that everything, including God, has a cause. Thats why God must be "outside the universe". But couldnt the universe existed forever? There *are more than one scientist today that believe that the universe hasnt existed forever. It has a beginning, which some people call Big Bang*.



When people try argue this I always tell them they have to define beginning and define nothing. They cant do it because it doesnt make sence. The Big Bang was an expansion of space time, and we really dont know what happened "before" that. The point is that there was no "before" in the way we understand it as there first has to be time before there can be a before and after. Humans cant really grasp what it would be like to have no time, and what it would be like to truely have "nothing", which is why even the best of us have trouble grasping quantum mechanics.

Physicists tend to call eveyrthing they theorise a Theory, when really its just a hypothesis, such as String Theory. So we really dont know. Very strange things apparently happen in the quantum realm, american physicist Murray Gell-Mann said quantum mechanics is "_that mysterious, confusing discipline which none of us really understands but which we know how to use". _And physicist Richard Feynman said "_I think I can safely say that no-one understands quantum mechanics… Do not keep asking yourself, if you can possibly avoid it, "but how can it be like that?" _. 

Basically, the cosmological argument is incorrect because its logic is irrelevant to the point to which it argues. 



> Actually everything in the universe is dependant on something else to exist, there are no independant things. The only sufficient cause, for the universe to begin, and for every single part of the universe to exist, is something thats self-existing, eternal (no beginning, no end) and totally independant, God.



I think you lack a whole lot imagination, if you think those are the only two possible explanations.

Ed


----------



## Waywyn (Apr 4, 2007)

I have to agree with Ed here.

Humans can only think like humans and they just relate from things they were already able to explain and discovered.

We discover three dimensions, so there must be a 4th and a 5th and 6th one. Maybe 500? Maybe none.
We discovered how the heart works, but we can't discover the brain completely, so we think about "god" who created it.
We discover space, so there must be an end somewhere or at least an explainable wormhole, start/end spot ... and soooo on  ... you get the point.

Do a pretty simple test:

Sit down and imagine the universe and move through it, try to go further away from earth etc.
Now think about that this room may be neverending (could be, of course).

You simply can't imagine that. Humans think in their dimensions and with their "invented" time. A day doesn't have 24 hours, a minute doesn't have necessarily 60 seconds.
Time and space as we know are simply inventions of the human brain.


So Mathematicians want to explain everything with math.
Physics have another theory, the same with priests, biologists, numerologists and soo on 
You get the point again.


... and so it will always be as it was in the past. What mankind can't explain and which is not logic, they believe in supernatural.

What in 10000 years? (just in case we managed it to save us)
People may have discovered the human brain completely. You can learn a language within 1 week. You can maybe heal yourself because mankind fully understood how to control their body and brain.
Probably we will travel in light speed and so on and so on.

But whatever we will do or wherever we land or what we discover.
We will not get the whole picture, because we are just creatures like every other creatures on these planet.

Think about this sentence for a second:
People try to travel to space and find extraterrestrial live, but they didn't manage it to find out about the worries of the animals who live on their own planet.
Besides that, there already has been a lot of extinctions of breeds on earth.


----------



## José Herring (Apr 4, 2007)

Good points Waywyn.

I think that to find answers mankind has to look beyond the material. In my experience above the universe lies the realm of concepts and ideas. That some of these ideas have gotten so solid and can be touched and have mass and weight then people think that things like time, and energy, stars and planets, houses and cars are all there is. It's not true. These things are just the product of ideas long ago forgotten.

If you understand the concept as idea senior to all that is one examines as Kant did the world of ideas. Mankind doesn't even know that he's got the brain fairly well mapped out. If you look at Scientific journals you'll see that they can move arms and legs and make people smile and frown by zapping different parts of the brain. Ideas don't necessarily come from the brain but man thinks this must be something physical so he continues to look at the brain and wonders why there's no center of ideas on the brain. But won't consider the fact that this center of consciousness that he looks for in the brain might not be material in nature.

The Eastern religions considered it the Tao. That force which can't be seen or touched that has no location but that created all that we see. Your Westerner says "God". Sometimes I think the Scientific Western civilizations just can't fathom the idea of a world of ideas superior to the physical universe so they just say "God" and He has become this thing, like you say, that explains away all things that people can't find any physical evidence of like thoughts, feelings, soul, energy of life and the idea of what happens after the body is gone.

So I think any approach to writing music that suggest the "Almighty" has to approach the idea of concept rather than a mere description any thing physical. And if you consider that idea is senior to that which exist physically you'll see that space is just a viewpoint of dimension. Time is a movement of events of objects or energies. Energy a flow of particles in various patterns regular or irregular. Matter the power of like particles to stick together in various configurations. That these idea where made long ago we consider then that it always was and then again God comes in to explain everything especially when your kid ask you, "why is the sky blue?" "God made it so" wraps everything up without ever having to try to understand anything. 

So I think to be successful at writing "God" type music that isn't cliched and corny one would have to lift himself up a bit and examine the realm of ideas existing senior to that which we commonly experience.

Jose


----------



## Pando (Apr 4, 2007)

david robinson @ Tue Apr 03 said:


> God is everything and everybody, like it or no.
> God is love, unspoken love.


That sure didn't appear to be the case on December 26, 2004 in Indonesia. 


> Composers generally "describe God" with high etherial strings and choirs, etc. so the audience "gets" the picture.(purity)


Which god? There are over 10,000 religions in the world. In Raiders, god was heard as a low pulsing synth drone (probably made with ARP 2600). Thor makes thunder so you can use some bass drum, timpani, and anvil with that one. Kokopelli plays a flute and.... oh never mind. :D


----------



## Hardy Heern (Apr 4, 2007)

I just knew, from the first post, that this would spawn this thread. I don't know if the originator is a fundamentalist Christian......but please....just *don't *get me started!!!  

Look, it's all been done over the last few hunded years! Just stay with 'Amazing Grace', 'The Lord's my shepherd' and 'Abide with me'. You're not going to beat them. I don't believe in any of it but I DO like a good hymn.......  

Frank


----------



## Ed (Apr 6, 2007)

josejherring @ Wed Apr 04 said:


> If you look at Scientific journals you'll see that they can move arms and legs and make people smile and frown by zapping different parts of the brain. Ideas don't necessarily come from the brain but man thinks this must be something physical so he continues to look at the brain and wonders why there's no center of ideas on the brain. But won't consider the fact that this center of consciousness that he looks for in the brain might not be material in nature.



It might not, but we need a reason to think it isnt material or else you're just doing what the people did thousands of years ago when looking at a volcano and thinking there must be some supernatural force involved with it somehow.


----------



## José Herring (Apr 6, 2007)

There's actually quite a bit of scientific evidence suggesting that the center of consciousness isn't material but science won't accept it's own data. But I'd rather not get into it. The last time I did it ended up in people insulting me personally for no good reason.

But it's there if you look. It's obvious. But please make the distinction that I'm not talking about some hoaky suppernatural force. More along the lines of the power to make a decision.


----------



## Waywyn (Apr 6, 2007)

josejherring @ Fri Apr 06 said:


> There's actually quite a bit of scientific evidence suggesting that the center of consciousness isn't material but science won't accept it's own data.



... Jose, you know I really like discussing with you, but it can't be that we know something about it.

I mean see it this way:
Compare our brain to a 90 Mhz Pentium I PC with a Gforce2 graphics card.

How could this machine ever demonstrate a DirectX 10 NVidia demo imcl. Shader 3 and 40 frames per minute.

It is not possible.


Reduce it now to our senses. How could someone who was born with one eye, see 3d?
How can a being which is def and blind understand the worlds of sonic and colors?

Not possiblòÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VK	Ä   VK
Ä   VKÄ   VKÄ   VK Ä   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VKÄ   VK Ä


----------



## lee (Apr 6, 2007)

Ed, Waywyn, Jose and all others: I´m glad you have all been trying to explain different approaches to "godly" music and different beliefs. It´s great to discuss philosophies with you.

I´ve found some free samples of russian orthodox monks on http://www.mi7libraries.com (www.mi7libraries.com) (you get 10$ (edit: 10euro) free when you register), that I plan using. I think I´ll use Opus1 for some basic orchestral palette, add atmospheric synty sounds/perc and the monks/other freeware choirs for creating the "God sound".

Another idea would be to use some sort of effect on the music, to make it sound different when God is in action. Something subtle..

Ok, I confess, I´m trying to get back to topic.  But let the other discussions continue as well, not trying to silence it.

/Johnny


----------

