# Golden Score sound how to get it?



## Christian F. Perucchi (Feb 4, 2011)

Hi everyone!
im trying to get the golden score sound , and im only close to John williams :shock: 
So, want to know if there is a posibility of getting , steiners, korngold, tiomkin etc. full scores to analyze, are the public domain or not? 
Also , should i go to mahler, shoshty, wagner, and bruckner for references?
EQ and technicallywise how can i aproach this for mixing and building the virtual space, sample recomendations?
Thanks a lot! :D 
Christian


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## adg21 (Feb 18, 2011)

Most film scores aren't in public domain, but everything else you're asking is basically a library's worth of reading.


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## bryla (Feb 18, 2011)

Going through Rachmaninoff, Ravel, Debussy, Holst aso has got me thinking MANY times "this is exactly the texture from "insert name of movie scored by famous film composer" that they used 100 years previously". Go to the public library and check out the scores of the masters


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## c0mp0ser (Feb 18, 2011)

Or go here: http://imslp.org/wiki/


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## JJP (Feb 18, 2011)

bryla @ Fri Feb 18 said:


> Going through Rachmaninoff, Ravel, Debussy, Holst aso has got me thinking MANY times "this is exactly the texture from "insert name of movie scored by famous film composer" that they used 100 years previously". Go to the public library and check out the scores of the masters


Hey Bryla, this is one of the true secrets of score study. People spend so much time crying about not having access to film scores when they have easy access the exact same materials great film composers and orchestrators studied.

About a decade ago several film composers on an email listserver made a list of "essential scores" for film composers. It was amazing how much agreement there was on the scores and why they were important.

Study up, folks! The resources are there! =o


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## bryla (Feb 18, 2011)

JJP you've got that list of their essential scores? Would be nice to have some inspiration.

As an addition I would mention that if you want to study more modern music, PWM (Polish Music something-something) has all the great Polish scores from the 20th century. Lutoslawski, Penderecki and Gorecki scores from $5!


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## adg21 (Feb 18, 2011)

bryla @ Fri Feb 18 said:


> Going through Rachmaninoff, Ravel, Debussy, Holst aso has got me thinking MANY times "this is exactly the texture from "insert name of movie scored by famous film composer" that they used 100 years previously". Go to the public library and check out the scores of the masters



eg, 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn_PGrl5vYg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iISxAhvv3ts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGooy5Dk7qc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScsfBEWRR6E

there are millions of examples like this

having said that it'd be nice to see more film scores too



JJP @ Fri Feb 18 said:


> About a decade ago several film composers on an email listserver made a list of "essential scores" for film composers. It was amazing how much agreement there was on the scores and why they were important.
> 
> Study up, folks! The resources are there! =o



It would be nice to see that list too


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## mducharme (Feb 19, 2011)

I agree with studying old scores - but also theory study when it comes to Romantic era harmony is important - some theory approaches take you to augmented 6th chords and then leave you there. There are theory books that cover Romantic harmony in good detail.

Certain chord colors like iv with an added 6th resolving to I (i.e. F-Ab-C-D to C-G-C-E) were a favorite romantic era / golden age device and John Williams uses them a lot in his love themes etc (princess leia theme, marion's theme). Sometimes the chord omits the 5th which gives you F-Ab-D. Also of harmonic interest are chromatic mediant key relationships, of great interest after Beethoven (for instance, having an E major passage in a piece in C major, etc).

Most likely your approximation sounds like John Williams because of not enough accented dissonance - appoggiaturas, suspensions, retardations, accented passing or neighbor notes, etc. If you look at something like Wagner, for instance, he might do a chord with a 4-3 suspension in it, but when the suspension resolves he changes chords at the same time to a new harmony which has a new suspension/dissonance in it, so that you never actually hear the chord that is being suggested. Throw on lots and lots of appoggiaturas and retardations to your melodies, and use suspensions and accented passing/neighbor in your melody and lower voices. The more you use, the more romantic it sounds, to a point.

Also contributing to the Golden Age sound are high solo violin melodies, and huge amounts of vibrato in the strings in general - this amount of vibrato is not normally seen these days as it is overly romantic.


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## Christian F. Perucchi (Aug 2, 2011)

WOW! i lost this topic! dind´t knew that had so many kind answers thanks to all of you, well after i didi a short demo, have been researching and found Mahler 6 symphony which is awesome also shoshtakovich 10 symph. and many others, but the main thing i was referring was to the sound, reverb, EQ etc.
well first i left you the first demo, and when i finish the rest of the music i will post it in the forum so you can feedback, thanks again , i love this forum! is full of good vibes! 
Regards!
Christian

Old Demo: http://soundcloud.com/christianfernandp ... hi/s-BpLid


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## impressions (Aug 2, 2011)

the problem with studying old scores is that you have to transpose so many times for each instrument(clarinet in A, viola in C clef, Bb english horn, bones, trumpets etc) that until you get to point where you actually "see" the score it took you ages.

unless you're classically trained, and that is easy stuff for you.

nonetheless i think being able to do this by ear is even better(and probably faster) than by reading.

its frustrating because all the knowledge we need is there, but it's buried so deep under a pile of huge skill.


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## JJP (Aug 2, 2011)

impressions @ Tue Aug 02 said:


> the problem with studying old scores is that you have to transpose so many times for each instrument(clarinet in A, viola in C clef, Bb english horn, bones, trumpets etc) that until you get to point where you actually "see" the score it took you ages.
> 
> unless you're classically trained, and that is easy stuff for you.
> 
> ...


Transposing isn't all THAT hard. It takes a bit of practice, but you get used to it. I often write in transposed score. It has the added benefit of making the orchestration look like it sounds. Instruments in the high or low part of their range are high or low on the staff. One tip to help with transposition: English Horn is in F.

I frequently get people asking me for shortcuts to learning orchestration or music theory. There are no shortcuts on this one. If you want to learn it, you must put in the time and effort. Sure you can learn it all by ear, but it will take just as much work... probably more. The scores ARE the shortcut. 8)

Considering the hours people are willing to spend learning new plugins or DAW features, I find it quite surprising that so many people are unwilling to put in the same effort to actually learn music. It makes me wonder if some people were drawn to this career/hobby by the desire to communicate and move people or simply the desire to play with fancy, shiny, flashing toys.

I began to recompile my own version of that list of scores. I never got around to finishing it because the general vibe I get in forums is that most people don't care. Actually studying music is seen as chore best avoided. People see it as not worth the effort. That's not true for everyone, but it seems to be a mindset among many tech-oriented forum contributors.

That saddens me because it lessens the impact of the music we create. It undermines our ability to connect with listeners on a deep level, fill their minds with powerful sensations, and leave them with lasting impressions or new insights. These are the reasons musicians create music. It's about communication on an elemental level that transcends speech and visual images.

Music is a language we use for that aural communication. It has a grammar and vocabulary that is dense, refined, and subtle. Especially with orchestral music, learning its secrets enables us to speak the language with eloquence. Listeners respond to that eloquence and are moved by it.

This is why authors read great literature and poetry. They delight in and want to internalize the masterful ways other great authors have manipulated language to connect with readers. They aren't nearly as concerned with all the features in their typewriters or word processors unless it contributes significantly to their ability to speak with eloquence. Most authors realize that different fonts, colored text, and fancy markups don't do much to alter the message. The real power lies in the way the language is used to tickle, prod, massage, persuade, or even slap the mind of the reader.


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## Christian F. Perucchi (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks for all your responses, well i take it the other way, im still studying in the conservatoir Composition (we study music from early 1500 to 20th century mostly
and the carreer here in Argentina lasts about 10 years.The main thing is that its lacking the tech aspect of today composers.So im not having problem on studying scores , transpositional instruments or whatever, the problem is with the samples, reverb etc.
I remember about 2 years in Instrumentology 1 (8 months class) the first thing we didi was to take Stravinsky sacre du printemps and make a reduction for 2 pianos , then the same for a few Beethoven and Mozart.With that work youll never have any doubts regarding transposing instruments!
Regards!


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## Christian F. Perucchi (Aug 2, 2011)

Ohh and i forgot this, we had to make it by hand so nobody pass .sib files or whatever HEHE


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## impressions (Aug 2, 2011)

JJP @ Tue Aug 02 said:


> impressions @ Tue Aug 02 said:
> 
> 
> > the problem with studying old scores is that you have to transpose so many times for each instrument(clarinet in A, viola in C clef, Bb english horn, bones, trumpets etc) that until you get to point where you actually "see" the score it took you ages.
> ...



no kidding.
but its also a matter of what level of craft you'd need to achieve -composers aiming to do more commercial work(trailers, promos, commercials) don't need to focus on quality that much. it's enough for them to make the correct impact in its raw and most powerful form(hence the corny, cheesiness of them).
film scorers also, although they would benefit from it, alot of film scores don't even use orchestral works. 

so unless you're hardcore, or hardcore wanna be, like me, you're in for years of learning the craft, and while you're learning this, you need to make a buck so you can survive, and feed your family. navigate through all that and survive with a conductor stick is no small task.

don't need to convince me about the true craft, it's just not as easy and "short" as you present it.

besides, music is music, it doesn't have to be top notch classical to get the message, it can be daft punk rock, avant garde bop, or even a crony pop song can make a huge impact when placed in the correct picture(tears for fears-donnie darko anyone?).

so yes and no.


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## Christian F. Perucchi (Aug 2, 2011)

Have anyone read my posts? :?:


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## David Story (Aug 2, 2011)

Learn from the masters, there's more to life than cheap thrills. Though they are fun 

Christian, google KORNGOLD SURSUM CORDA

For STEINER, here's a rundown http://www.filmscorerundowns.net/steiner/index.html

You can come to LA, where USC Special Collections and the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Library have the manuscripts.

There are also private collections.


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