# Nevermind



## Illuminati (May 4, 2009)

Nevermind


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## Fernando Warez (May 4, 2009)

Really? It probably had more to do with his latest hit "The Obama Deception"... They say fascism comes from the left...

Yup! It looks like you're right. Haha! We don't have a free press and now, we can even have a free alternative media!


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## Niah (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

fascism comes from the left? :?: 

just out of curiosity who is the left in America?


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## artsoundz (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

http://www.spike.com/video/zappa-on-crossfire/2658805

I MISS the man.


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## Illuminati (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

xx


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## Christian Marcussen (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

What was the content of the videos on Swine Flu?


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## Illuminati (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

Oopps double post.. 8)


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## Fernando Warez (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*



> Niah @ Mon May 04 said:
> 
> 
> > fascism comes from the left? :?:
> ...



That would be code pink. But they've been secretly founded by Sorros so they were domed from the start. :mrgreen: ..Seriously, that would be the democrats i suppose. never mind the fact they support pretty much everything Bush did.


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## Christian Marcussen (May 5, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*



Illuminati @ Mon May 04 said:


> All illegal apparently! :o I didn't get to watch them, but I had seen several others where he basically said it was a media hoax to engage "martial law" on a global scale and only a glimpse of the next real wave coming in the fall and that tamiflu was raking in profits.
> 
> Looks like the full thing is here:
> http://www.infowars.com/special-weekend-broadcast-alex-jones-swine-flu-hoax/ (http://www.infowars.com/special-weekend ... -flu-hoax/)
> ...



I see. I'm split on closing down his youtube channel - I defeinately see both sides of the argument. In principle I don't believe in silencing people - even if they spew deranged nonsense. On the other hand I accept that Youtube is a private company and can remove what ever they want. I can see why some things just go over the line in terms of stupidity and worse - animating fear, hatred and suspicion. It' just hard where to draw the line.


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## Niah (May 5, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*



Fernando Warez @ Tue May 05 said:


> > Niah @ Mon May 04 said:
> >
> >
> > > fascism comes from the left? :?:
> > ...



Well fascist and communist regimes are essentially totalitarian. The ideals may differ but the end result is always a totalitarian society.

And I have been to Russia last year and essentially that's not communism they have now (althouh they say it is) and I pretty much found the same problems I find in europe.

The reason that I was asking about the left in america is because it is very confusing to me what exactly is to be left in america.

I mean when I talk about free wealth care and free education including free college education, most american shouts "commie" and "socialist". But in europe these are basic needs that everybody from the far left to the far right and anything in between agrees on.

when Obama won I heard people say in america that it was going to be a socialist nightmare....well he is not a socialist and hasn't shown any "left tendencies". So it's really confusing.

I am only talking ideologically of course because we all know there is no left and right anymore just the color green.


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## Niah (May 5, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*



artsoundz @ Tue May 05 said:


> http://www.spike.com/video/zappa-on-crossfire/2658805
> 
> I MISS the man.



wow watching part II also, zappa rules o-[][]-o


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## Ed (May 5, 2009)

Alex Jones is a lying sensationalist. A disgrace to journalism. If you listen him describing something you probably now have a very distorted picture of whatever it is. 

I lol'ed at the "pulled" part in the subject line, I thought this was going to be about that Silverstein "pull it" crap he keeps lying about.


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## artsoundz (May 5, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

well- the overall value of independent footage to expose a lie/truth is without question.

I was a total sceptic until I saw this footage. I would'nt be surprised if AJ had something to do with this.


http://presurfer.blogspot.com/2009/05/b ... -tape.html


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## Niah (May 5, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

that isn't journalism at all

the job of a journalist is to report the news without giving his opinion or judgement

alex jones is just funny and he is not on any news channel as far as I know so...I don't think he is being taken too seriously.

but when I see things like bill o'relley I can't help but wonder, how can this be on TV? how can they allow it?

im sure they are cases of journalistic excellence in america but mostly likely they don't get the attention they deserve


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## Ed (May 5, 2009)

Fernando Warez @ Tue May 05 said:


> What about pulled? Are you saying the pull it has been debunked? How? And what is it that you don't understand about WTC7. :?



Its been debunked for a long time. As you know I used to argue for 911 conspiracies at one point but then i eventually looked stuff up properly. WTC7 claims has to contain some of the biggest lies of "truth movement". http://tinyurl.com/de6zaz (Heres my post)on the "pull it" claim on another forum - You may have to go back to the beginning of that thread in order to totally understand that post to its fullest. I explain how it had massive structural damage, heavy uncontrollable fires and they all believed it was going to collapse and so on. The problem with these claims is they are based off lies and supported by lies.


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## Alex W (May 5, 2009)

but Ed, I thought "they knew it was coming!!" "they all knew!"


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## Ed (May 5, 2009)

Alex W @ Tue May 05 said:


> but Ed, I thought "they knew it was coming!!" "they all knew!"



in reference to what? regarding prior knowledge I argued with you about? Yea, but you see then I argued with someone that did know what they were talking about


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## Fernando Warez (May 5, 2009)

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## artsoundz (May 5, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

and yet it says "voice simulation".

solid stuff, Fernando. As usual.


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## Fernando Warez (May 5, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*



artsoundz @ Tue May 05 said:


> and yet it says "voice simulation".
> 
> solid stuff, Fernando. As usual.



It's his voice. You can listen to him in other videos if you want. Actually, you can listen to him at the end of the same video. He's a fews years older but you'll recognize him I'm sure.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 5, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

Fernando, are you *still* posting those ridiculous links to YouTube 9/11 conspiracy videos? Gawd, don't your private parts get sore from all this abuse?




> And I have been to Russia last year and essentially that's not communism they have now (althouh they say it is) and I pretty much found the same problems I find in europe.



Actually they don't say it's communism anymore.



> The reason that I was asking about the left in america is because it is very confusing to me what exactly is to be left in america.
> 
> I mean when I talk about free wealth care and free education including free college education, most american shouts "commie" and "socialist". But in europe these are basic needs that everybody from the far left to the far right and anything in between agrees on.



Not most Americans by any means. Only uninformed right-wing people.

...although in all fairness they don't really say that about education, they say that about healthcare (among other things). They used to use "liberal" as an insult, but that's worn off, so they've switched to "communist" and "socialist," taking advantage of outdated Cold War thinking.



> when Obama won I heard people say in america that it was going to be a socialist nightmare....well he is not a socialist and hasn't shown any "left tendencies". So it's really confusing.
> 
> I am only talking ideologically of course because we all know there is no left and right anymore just the color green.



There absolutely is still a left-right divide in America, never mind that the Republican party has lost a lot of popularity - and rightly so (in other words the line has shifted toward the left). It would take too long to explain in detail what the differences are between the two in this country, but liberals (the left) tend to be like social democrats and conservatives tend to be like Margaret Thatcher.

If you look a little closer, the Republican party of the past generation has been made up of social conservatives/religious fundamentalists, military hawks, and "free market" ideologues (like Thatcher and Reagan - they love privatization) who are tired of being compassionate and would rather not pay taxes. They also had some libertarians, who to me seem like wild, wild west cowboys with a pioneering "every man for himself" spirit - they don't want the government in their lives, they believe that telling people not to do anything (such as smoke in public or be armed to the teeth with assault rifles) is a violation of their individual rights, believe that all foreign intervention is trying to police the world, and so on.

We liberals tend to be more dovish when it comes to foreign policy; have more relaxed social mores; believe in top-down, forward-thinking leadership rather than no government; are in favor of more socialized services such as healthcare; and believe in government-enforced standards for industry and business...as I said, we're more like social democrats for the most part.

But there are other issues that shouldn't really have anything to do with left/right but do. Liberals tend to favor abortion rights, be in favor of gay marriage, be against capital punishment, and be more concerned with environmental issues, for example.

There's more to it than that, and note that I wrote "tend to" a lot, because these aren't exact boundaries in every case.

I'm trying to be somewhat impartial in this explanation, but it's not easy. To me, conservatives are dead wrong about every last issue. They have no ideas offer, and especially now they are standing in the way of the survival of human civilization.

I could start another rant about why I disagree with the conventional wisdom that we need the Republican party to balance Democrats, and how they're not on the opposite side of a scale but rather the Republicans are useless deadweight in our society. But that's another post.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 5, 2009)

Also, I should have added that there's a very cynical group of people on the right who don't really have any particular ideology but are simply not interested in compassion. So rather than wanting to pay taxes, they say liberals "tax and spend," and use terms like "generational theft" to describe government investments in our future.


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## Ed (May 5, 2009)

Fernando Warez @ Tue May 05 said:


> What is important to understand is that a collapse like the WTC7 can not be generated by random events.



Why not? Progressive collapses are nothing new no matter how much CT's like to pretend they are. See below.



> I guess people don't understand what control demotion is.



Apparently CTs dont know what control demolition looks or sounds like. WTC7 simply doesnt look or sound like one when you really look at it properly. 



> We all know you cant write music by randomly sticking notes anywhere on a staff and trigger these note anywhere in time. In order to make music, notes have to be place at very specific spots on a staff and trigger in a very precise position in time. It's the same with a control demolition. Like notes on a staff, explosives have to be carefully placed at very specific spots in the building and these explosives need to be detonate in a precise sequence in order to have a building to fall in on itself like WTC7.



Correct so if you look at a controlled demolition you will see squibs fly up and down the building before it falls, you will hear VERY LOUD sequencial EXPLOSIONS before it collapses. You dont hear or see any of that with WTC7. What CTs are calling squibs look nothing like them, even if the videos they use to compare it to. 



> So if you understand what a control demolition is, you know it would require a 100++ coincidence to happened simultaneously to recreate a control demolition collapse by accident.



You just made that number up. But like I said, it doesnt look or sound like a demolition except maybe at a glance.



> I mean look at how it comes down. Look at that strait line. There's no way that can be produce by random events.



Why not? As I said progressive collapse isnt new. 

Theres the uncompleted http://matdl.org/failurecases/Building%20Cases/LAmbiance.htm (L'Ambiance Plaza) in Connecticut in 1987. Progressive collapse. The source above states, "_The entire structure collapsed, first the west tower and then the east tower, in 5 seconds, only 2.5 seconds longer than it would have taken an object to free fall from that height._".... Interesting how they mention free fall time.

Another building under construction progressivly collapsed in 1973. http://www.concretemonthly.com/monthly/art.php?2881 (Concrete monthly) says, "_Fairfax County Va., a progressive collapse during the construction of the 24th floor of the Skyline Plaza Apartments killed 14 workers and injured 34 more._". NIST includes it as one of their examples (see below) and says additionally "_the collapse involved the full height of the tower, and falling debris also caused the horizontal progressive collapse of an entire parking garage under construction adjacent to the tower._"

Not good enough because it wasnt finished? How about the New World Hotel in Singapore, a 1987 report states, _"In 'March 1986, a six-storey building - the Lian Yak building - collapsed rapidly and totally to the ground and basement levels with the loss of 33 lives."_ 

Heres also video of a partial building progressive collapse.
http://tinyurl.com/ddb54r

NIST have papers dealing with buildings that either completely "progressively collapsed" or partially collapsed, and provide design reccomendations to stop such a thing occuring. You could I suppose be paranoid enough to imagine that they are only doing this to prop up their lie that progressvive collapse only happens due to demolition (your claim) but progressive collapse is well known to structural engineers which is why, for example, there were a fear that the *Meridian Plaza* would collapse in this way. NIST isnt the only one writing these kinds of papers and research, http://www.pubs.asce.org/WWWdisplay.cgi?0510522 (here is a study) into progressive collapses of multi-story steel skyscrapers, which states in its Abstract: "_...Although progressive collapse is not a new topic in the structural field, recent collapses have brought this issue to the fore. Following the partial collapse of the Ronan Point residential tower block in London, the UK building regulations provided recommendations to guard against disproportionate collapse. These UK guidelines aimed to prevent progressive collapse by ensuring adequate tying of a structure (in concrete or steel) so that catenary action could develop, and this approach has often been cited as good practice_...".

Heres another from http://www.nibs.org/MMC/ProgCollapse%20presentations/Moore%20paper.pdf (The UK and European Regulations for Accidental Actions)which also gives reccomendations for designers, states, _"The partial collapse of Ronan Point in 1968 alerted the UK's construction industry to the problem of progressive collapse. An explosion in an apartment on the 18th floor, in the Southeast corner of the 22-storey tower block blew out the non-loadbearing walls of the kitchen and the living room and *the external loadbearing wall of the living room. The upper floor slab fell on to the floor below initiating the progressive collapse of one corner of the whole block*"_ 

If the only way a building can collapse like that is through demolition then why is it structural engineers *in 1991* ten years before 911, believed the One Meridian Plaza building was at risk of a *PANCAKE *collapse?

"Consultation with a structural engineer and structural damage observed by units operating in the building led to the belief that there was a possibility of a *pancake *structural collapse of the fire damaged floors."http://tinyurl.com/cxehvv (U.S. Fire Administration/Technical Report Series: Highrise Office Building Fire One Meridian Plaza)




> BTW, here's what really happens to a skyscraper after burning for while.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPjOi2d ... re=related



Thats the Windsor tower. It had a reinforcored concrete core, the WTC didnt have any concrete reinforcement it was essentially bolted together like an http://weblogs.amny.com/entertainment/urbanite/blog/erector.jpg (erector set). The most amusing thing about this comparision is that the top 13 floors of the building made of a steel structure DID infact collapse.


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## Fernando Warez (May 5, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

Ed, let me guess, you don't see the tower blowing up on that video? :roll: But you do see the squibs right? But those squibs are really puffs of air right? :roll: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtx_GcFC ... re=related



> Correct so if you look at a controlled demolition you will see squibs fly up and down the building before it falls, you will hear VERY LOUD sequencial EXPLOSIONS before it collapses. You dont hear or see any of that with WTC7. What CTs are calling squibs look nothing like them, even if the videos they use to compare it to.



That doesn't matter. The principle still apply. This collapse is way too clean to have been caused by an incident. Also, you can see the shock wave going up in one of the videos. 

I'm not going to debate this as i know it's a waits of time. 

And for those who know about the 911 cover up, you should also know the powers that be know about the Ethernet and have their shill always ready to debunk. It's stupid to think they'd let us discuss these 911 theories without any oppositions.


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## Ed (May 5, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*



Fernando Warez @ Tue May 05 said:


> Ed, let me guess, you don't see the tower blowing up on that video? :roll: But you do see the squibs right? But those squibs are really puffs of air right? :roll:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtx_GcFC ... re=related



These isolated "puffs" looking nothing like the kind of thing in a real demolition. Find me one that does. 

This is a video where someones claiming these squibs are the same as a demolition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73qK4j32 ... L&index=21

Firstly, where is the sound? Thats right they removed the sound because that building would have made a huge amount of explosive noises going off that would have been heard all accross the city that WTC7 didnt have. 

Second, look at 17 seconds. You see an actual demolition on the right. Look at how the squib ejections carry on outwards. Then look at the left screen for WTC7. This doesnt happen, these squibs just "stick" to the building. What kind of squibs react that way? So most likely these are window blinds billowing in the wind. The fact is they look nothing like the real squibs on the right. Not only that but we can only see these puffs like this in the videos at that top right corner of the building, why would they place these explosives at the top right?

Pay attention to how loud demolitions are, please tell me how cameras can pick up the sound of the planes hitting a building but not the tons of explosives claimed to bring down these towers. And dont say thermite, even without debating the logistics of that, your video claims theres explosives not thermite so-called "ejecting debris". Where are all the explosion sounds?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XG-l3N1 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7hkYt6B ... re=related



> > Correct so if you look at a controlled demolition you will see squibs fly up and down the building before it falls, you will hear VERY LOUD sequencial EXPLOSIONS before it collapses. You dont hear or see any of that with WTC7. What CTs are calling squibs look nothing like them, even if the videos they use to compare it to.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't matter. The principle still apply. This collapse is way too clean to have been caused by an incident. Also, you can see the shock wave going up in one of the videos.



You keep saying that, why didnt you look at my links? Thats what progressive collapse will look like, straight down pancake. And the loud explosions damn sure matter, because you are saying it looks exactly like a demolition but it doesnt. Does it or not?



> I'm not going to debate this as i know it's a waits of time.



Except before no one here knew the facts but Ive looked this up now so I know what you're talking about. What about the Windsor building, why did the top 13 floor collapse? Why are your 911 Truth sources still comparing it to the WTC when it has a reinforced concrete column? Why do they use the One Meridian Plaza as an example even though 10 years before 911 structural engineers also believed it might pancake collapse, JUST FROM FIRE? Why do your sources lie to you?



> And for those who know about the 911 cover up, you should also know the powers that be know about the Ethernet and have their shill always ready to debunk. It's stupid to think they'd let us discuss these 911 theories without any oppositions.



Am I a shill? All I did is look up the claims and found them all lies and misrepresentations.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 5, 2009)

OMG.

Are we really going through yet another one of these arguments about 9/11 with Fernando?!

There have been at least 50 of the exact same discussion here.

Please re-open the following thread if you want to continue with this inane crap. Fernando has all his ridiculous links in there, and you can cut and paste this stupid discussion over and over to your heart's content without annoying the falk out of His Excellency The Moderator Of This Section Of The Forum.

http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 5, 2009)

Come to think of it, I've asked Frederick how to move the posts into that other thread. Please continue there.

Sorry to abuse my power.


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## artsoundz (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

ever since you started riding a scooter, you've shown an arrogant abuse of power. my taxes are paying for this!!?? : )


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 6, 2009)

HEY, I RESENT THAT!

I was totally arrogant and abusive WAY before I started riding the scooter!


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## Christian Marcussen (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

If I may object - why can't conspiracies be discussed in this thread? 

1) The thread is dead anyway
2) People may have changed their opinions the past two years (one can hope)
3) The conspiracy talk has evolved naturally out of the original discussion. 

I mean - what harm does it do? Is there really a need to moderate it? If a new thread popped up every month then sure...

Anyway... Ed... Good posts. You said most of what I would like to say - and almost as good :mrgreen: 8)


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 6, 2009)

There's no law saying conspiracies may not be discussed in this thread. If you want to discuss that preposterous bullshit yet again, go ahead. I personally find making a parlor game out of all those deaths a little offensive, but it's up to you.

And this thread wasn't dead, even though it had evolved. Niah asked about liberals and conservatives in the US and I answered from my point of view.

Then we get the YouTube links.


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## Illuminati (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

Oopps double post.. 8)


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## ceam (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

Hello,

As R.A.W. would say, It is either a code, a coincidence, or a conspiracy.What is a coincidence to one is a code to another, and a conspiracy to another. 

Peter


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 6, 2009)

> We need to tone war down yet Obama is pushing for a huge civilian army and so much more



He's in favor of national service, an idea I think is great. That's not a civilian army.


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## Fernando Warez (May 6, 2009)

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed May 06 said:


> > We need to tone war down yet Obama is pushing for a huge civilian army and so much more
> 
> 
> 
> He's in favor of national service, an idea I think is great. That's not a civilian army.



Wow! Really? Isn't the US militarized enough as it is? Or maybe i didn't get this right?


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## Illuminati (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

Oopps double post.. Cool


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## Fernando Warez (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

There it is. That idea came from this Rahm Emanuel guy. An other Zionist at top level position of government in the US. His dad was a Israeli terrorist BTW, a revolutionary. I don't really mind that fact but i do see a clear potential for a conflict of interest. In fact, Rahm is on the record saying America should do what Israel says(or something close to that) when Israel says it's about Israel's security. And since Israel makes everything about security well... Anyway, the reality is that Israel and the US interest often conflict.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtDSwyCPEsQ

So let me guess, these young Americans who will be recruited will soon be ask to got to war with Israel's enemies i bet? Just like the neocon Zionist in the Bush administration tricked America to go to war with Iraq for Israel? At least thats my opinion, an I'm not the only one who thinks that. I hope I'm wrong about Rahm's intent but i see only one reason for training more soldiers and that is to go to war. So we can expect to see more wars. So much for change huh?

BTW, meet some of the neocons Zionist who sold that war to America. In case you thought i made this up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO0HD5RE_uM


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## artsoundz (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

certifiable


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 7, 2009)

One would think so, but it's really just a game. Some people love ranting about conspiracy theories.

Having said that, we do have a history of supporting Israel unconditionally. That's not even in Israel's interest.


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## ceam (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

Nick,

Remember, just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not plotting against you.



Peter


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## Illuminati (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

Oopps double post.. Cool


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## Fernando Warez (May 7, 2009)

> Nick Batzdorf @ Thu May 07 said:
> 
> 
> > One would think so, but it's really just a game. Some people love ranting about conspiracy theories.
> ...



I totally agree with that.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 7, 2009)

It's not just Jews, Fernando. The American religious right is very much...I don't even want to say pro-Israel, because what they are is in favor of hawkish Israeli behavior.

"Remember, just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not plotting against you"

Remember, these 9/11 conspiracy theories are pure unadulterated bullshit.

There certainly were conspiracies in play - the neocon's PNAC website is still active to prove that in "black and white" - but they just used the attacks on 9/11 opportunistically to further their agenda.

And of course the attacks themselves were conspiracies. But they were carried out by smelly bearded morons, not the US government.


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## ceam (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

Remember, these 9/11 conspiracy theories are pure unadulterated bullshit. 

The main problem was that the Bush administration was so secretive and kept everything so internal that it creates a conspiratorial aura. Here are just some things I remember hearing/seeing on 9/11.

1. They find a passport of a "Terrorist" in the rubble of one of the towers.
2. They find a car with a Koran and a flight manual in near the Logan airport.
3. We, The U.S., had no idea anything was going to happen, but with in 3 hours we 
have the names of all the terrorists involved. 
4. Again, no idea and the secret service does not take Bush into a protective state. 
They let him finish teaching school. I clearly remember walking outside to see if any 
planes were flying low in Columbus, Ohio after the second tower was hit.

Anyways, I agree with you Nick. I have a hard time believing that the United States attacked themselves on that day. The Only thing I still cannot come to reconcile is if we shot the plane down in Pennsylvania. 

Also, I think that we are all wired up a little differently. Some are pre-wired to be liberals, republicans, libertarians, and conspiracy theorists. You will have as hard a time convincing an Atheist there is a God as a Neo-con rebublican that Obama is good for the country, as a conspiracy theorist that David Kellermann really killed himself.

Peter


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## Fernando Warez (May 7, 2009)

> Nick Batzdorf @ Thu May 07 said:
> 
> 
> > It's not just Jews, Fernando. The American religious right is very much...I don't even want to say pro-Israel, because what they are is in favor of hawkish Israeli behavior.
> ...



Well this comment could be considered a bit discriminatory and even racist. But I'm not gonna hold it against you. 

edited: Well i guess i forgot to mention that, in that alliance, the Christians might be asked to send their sons and daughters to fight for Israel one day. But that's not what i would call a benefit, more like a lost.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 7, 2009)

Have you seen pictures of Bin Laden, Fernando? You can tell he smells bad from looking at them.

The guy is a sadistic creep, and so is anyone who murders people at his behest.


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## Christian Marcussen (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*



> 3. We, The U.S., had no idea anything was going to happen, but with in 3 hours we
> have the names of all the terrorists involved.



Hyperbole? It took days, and there is no magic involved. It was rather simply old school investegation.


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## adrianallan (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

Let me wade in here and add my support to the fact that it was a complete inside job.

While Bush was at the Florida primary school somebody whispered in his ear (his advisor) "america is under attack"

But Bush carried on reading to the kids.

This is a nonsensical response. 

If it was an unsuspected attack, Bush would have been whisked off into the nearest preidential limousine and his secret service team would have initiated a response that had been practised thousands of times over. Bush would not have decided this course of action - he would have been bundled away - the next plane could have been heading to the school.

But no, he carried on reading the story about the pet goat. The commander in chief of all the armed forces carried on reading to four year olds.

The fact he was in a school at the time is no coincidence: surround yourself by "innocence" in the hope that some of it rubs off onto you. 

Wake up people - how else could this scenario have arisen unless they knew it was goin to happen ?


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## artsoundz (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

impressive. Very solid critical thinking going on here.


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## ceam (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

Christian,


You could be right about that. I go the info about the names from the following wikipedia. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

Half way down it said this, 

Within hours of the attacks, the FBI was able to determine the names and in many cases the personal details of the suspected pilots and hijackers.[73][74] Mohamed Atta's luggage, which did not make the connection from his Portland flight onto Flight 11, contained papers that revealed the identity of all 19 hijackers, and other important clues about their plans, motives, and backgrounds.

As I said earlier in a post. Some will see conspiracy some will see coincidence.

Peter


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## Fernando Warez (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*



adrianallan @ Thu May 07 said:


> Let me wade in here and add my support to the fact that it was a complete inside job.
> 
> While Bush was at the Florida primary school somebody whispered in his ear (his advisor) "america is under attack"
> 
> ...



Yes Bush behaviour was very odd to say the least. It's not proof but it doesn't help the government story. Plus he kind of look nervous and guilty on that clip. 

But the whole inside job saying is not accurate either as there are sign foreign governments were involved. In fact, many people think the inside job label was in fact put out by the controlled opposition to lure people away from the real bad guys. But it was an inside job in the sense that there's no way anyone could pull a 911 without help from inside. Lots of help i would say.


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## artsoundz (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

I just hate that this kind of garbage is here on V.I.

It's just lazy, irresponsible thinking and should be on another site w/ other paranoid irresponsible "thinkers".

But, it's my problem. I've been diagnosed w/ wikiyoutubeaphobia.


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## Fernando Warez (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*



artsoundz @ Thu May 07 said:


> I just hate that this kind of garbage is here on V.I.
> 
> It's just lazy, irresponsible thinking and should be on another site w/ other paranoid irresponsible "thinkers".
> 
> But, it's my problem. I've been diagnosed w/ wikiyoutubeaphobia.



Nobody forces you to reed it! In fact I'm wondering why you are reeding it.


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## artsoundz (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

perhaps because I'm compelled to rail against damaging, irresponsible ignorance that smacks of antisemtic overtones.

But in this case, it's obviously useless given the level of critical thinking here. It wouldn't even be so bad if there were some real thorough thought processes here. But it's just SO the level of high school locker room banter, construction site heresay, and backyard fence "dontch know's...that...that.... arghhhh..... I just blew up. blood and guts everywhere now....

So, while losing respect and credibility overall, you win ,Fernando.

continue on.


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## Fernando Warez (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*



artsoundz @ Thu May 07 said:


> perhaps because I'm compelled to rail against damaging, irresponsible ignorance that smacks of antisemtic overtones.
> 
> But in this case, it's obviously useless given the level of critical thinking here. It wouldn't even be so bad if there were some real thorough thought processes here. But it's just SO the level of high school locker room banter, construction site heresay, and backyard fence "dontch know's...that...that.... arghhhh..... I just blew up. blood and guts everywhere now....
> 
> ...



Anti-antisemitism? Where? Well maybe you're just running out of argument. 

BTW, why is it that there were so many Israeli arrested on and prior to 911 in the US? More than 200 Israel were arrested for spying in the US. Active Israeli military officers, people who failed polygraph. Spying on Arabs? It appear these Israeli had information regarding the 911 attacks they didn't share with the US. Or course, the evidence linking these Israelis to 911 is classified. But some people have suggested these Israeli who were spying on the Arabs were really doing so to frame them. It makes sense but who knows. But what i know is that Israel had a clear motive to carry out these attacks. In fact, i cant think of anyone else who would have better motives than Israel to do that as it would turn western super powers like the US against Israel's enemies. Add to that the fact the Bush admin. was filled with Zionist(the neocons) who rapidly used these attacks to go after Saddam, an enemy of Israel. Coincidence? 

And what about the compromised wiring taping system in the US handled by an Israeli company? :roll: Suspected terrorist under investigation in New York who would switch line as soon as they were taped? Always staying ahead of the investigators?

These are a series of VERY interesting report by Fox news regarding these Israeli spies. Which, BTW, proves even Fox new can do good reporting when they want to. These report were aired only once and fox news now deny ever airing them. :roll: I really urge you to watch these. This is amazing stuff. :shock: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fm0_7jVqcE 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhAEjSQg ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENwze5ow ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwckJoP7 ... re=related

One bit seem to have been edited out of these videos is that both CIA and FBI intelligence officers have said "it was career suicide to even suggest Israel had a hand in the attacks of 911". Call me crazy but, if Israel has enough influence to scare the CIA and the FBI into not investigate them, it seems to me they are in a very good position to pull something like 911 with getting cut. 

I'm not saying Israel did this all on their own as I'm sure they had help inside the US, but i do believe Israel was neck deep involve in 911 for the reasons I've already mentioned.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 7, 2009)

*whimper*


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## synthetic (May 7, 2009)

Man, between this thread and the Hans thread, this board is starting to get ugly. Time for moderation, I think.


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## Ed (May 7, 2009)

Fernando, will you address those WTC7 claims you made?


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## Fernando Warez (May 7, 2009)

synthetic @ Thu May 07 said:


> Man, between this thread and the Hans thread, this board is starting to get ugly. Time for moderation, I think.



Yes lets go back to Obama will saved the world and the usual BS. 

What are you afraid off anyway? This cause you too much discomfort. Are you gonna loose any sleep over this? You know life cant aways be rosy and all. Some subject are difficult to talk about and thats life.


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## Fernando Warez (May 7, 2009)

Ed @ Thu May 07 said:


> Fernando, will you address those WTC7 claims you made?



All i have to say is you've debunked nothing. You show me partial collapse while there were 3 complete collapse on 911. And i haven't seen any proof the fire in WTC7 were hot enough to weaken the structures. And how the hell did the fires started in this building to begin with? Yea i know, a piece of fire from the tower set it in fire. Right.


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## Fernando Warez (May 7, 2009)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu May 07 said:


> *whimper*



200 Israeli arrested before and on 911 and you're not bothered by that at all? The US gives Israel around 3 billions in financial aid every year and Israel repay you by spying on the US like that and you're fine with this/ What wrong with this picture?

BTW, you said you find this topic offensives but whats really offensives is that your government spent 10x more investigating Monica Lewinsky's blow job than it did investigate 911. The 911 family victims had to force bush to open the 911 commission. Which was a real joke anyway. They never took into account the 100s testimony of secondary of explosives. And i could go on and on...


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## Fernando Warez (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*

Ed, how about you adress the claims in these videos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7kGZ3XPEm4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xevv8ITc ... re=related

And how could the towers collapse in the path of most resistance at gravity speed? Or very close to gravity speed? Shouldn't the structure slow down the collapse? And even stop it and force the tower to fall on the side like the guy point out in this video?


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 7, 2009)

"Time for moderation, I think."

If you have suggestions, let me know. Nobody is abusing anyone - except me  - so Im not going to flex my huge muscles any further. But I agree, this 9/11 conspiracy/YouTube crap is ugly.


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## Ed (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Fernando ->Alex Jones Channel "Pulled"*



Fernando Warez @ Thu May 07 said:


> And how could the towers collapse in the path of most resistance at gravity speed? Or very close to gravity speed? Shouldn't the structure slow down the collapse? And even stop it and force the tower to fall on the side like the guy point out in this video?



Those videos claim the building would topple over or something, but that is simply how buildings collapse when they progressive collapse. Why did they believe One Meridian Plaza 10 years before 911 was at risk of a "pancake" collapse?



> All i have to say is you've debunked nothing. You show me partial collapse while there were 3 complete collapse on 911.



So? When has there ever been an occasion like 911?



> And i haven't seen any proof the fire in WTC7 were hot enough to weaken the structures.



All the firefighters thought so, if you go to the first page in that thread I linked to you can find lots of firefighter quotes (but not exhaustive).

As a general summary they talk of it *bulging*, *leaning*, *groaning *and *creaking *and reports of things *crackling, and falling*. They describe it being heavily damaged and many described the vast damage to the south side such as Chris Boyle for example describing how he was standing right next to it where he saw a *huge gaping hole* about 1/3 the size of the building. He certainly not the only one to describe such huge damage. They talk about *uncontainable fully involved raging fires top to bottom* and they say they all believed it would collapse or was in danger of collapse and that *they knew that hours before* it actually did.



> And how the hell did the fires started in this building to begin with? Yea i know, a piece of fire from the tower set it in fire. Right.



Lots of buildings were on fire because of the collapse

Ed


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