# Streaming services fight royalty increase for song writers



## Wunderhorn (Mar 8, 2019)

As if the entire streaming model wasn't already based on organized robbery IMO now they openly show their true colors - Here is an interesting read: 
Spotify, Google, Pandora, Amazon Go to U.S. Appeals Court to Overturn Royalty Increase


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## Desire Inspires (Mar 8, 2019)

It’s not so bad. You gotta learn how to use the technology to your advantage. The tech is here to stay until something else better comes along. So it only makes sense to learn how to manipulate the system to gain strategic advantages. Start zagging while others are zigging.


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## J-M (Mar 8, 2019)

Wunderhorn said:


> As if the entire streaming model wasn't already based on organized robbery IMO now they openly show their true colors - Here is an interesting read:
> Spotify, Google, Pandora, Amazon Go to U.S. Appeals Court to Overturn Royalty Increase



I mean...was there ever any doubt that streaming services don't really care about the artists? But unfortunately it's here to stay...


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## Desire Inspires (Mar 8, 2019)

MrLinssi said:


> I mean...was there ever any doubt that streaming services don't really care about the artists? But unfortunately it's here to stay...



So you need to learn how to use these services to your advantage!

If these companies are making billions of dollars a year from streaming, you should be able to make hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands a year from streaming. The money is out there. Find out how to get in on the action.

Too many "composers" are working hard on trying to buy the next new music library or the buy the next new course on orchestration. Why not invest in a course on how to monetize your music? It makes more sense to learn how to get paid for the skills you already have than to pay for things that may or may not generate any money.


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## dgburns (Mar 8, 2019)

I wish there was an unlike button


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## Polkasound (Mar 8, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> ...you should be able to make hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands a year from streaming. The money is out there. Find out how to get in on the action.



Step 1: Marry Jeff Bezos.
Step 2: Divorce Jeff Bezos.
Step 3: Buy the rights to the music of the industry's top mainstream artists.
Step 4: Make thousands of dollars a year from streaming.


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## X-Bassist (Mar 8, 2019)

Polkasound said:


> Step 1: Marry Jeff Bezos.
> Step 2: Divorce Jeff Bezos.
> Step 3: Buy the rights to the music of the industry's top mainstream artists.
> Step 4: Make thousands of dollars a year from streaming.


But then you're marrying Jeff to make thousands of dollars a year? Is it really worth it? He must be a ego-challenge at this point.

I would think for a few billion you could pay artists and stream music to consumers for free, until everything else, including Apple music, goes out of business. Then you raise the rates... muah-ha-ha!


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## Desire Inspires (Mar 9, 2019)

The reality is that technology has been ahead of the law for at least 20 years.

By the time the laws are changed to benefit the masses of artists for streaming royalties, something else will be out there for musicians to get upset about.

The technology is not going away. So it makes sense to find a way to leverage technology to get paid. I am looking into ways to make this tech thing work for me, not against me.


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## dgburns (Mar 9, 2019)

Not paying for IP and copyright has nothing to do with ‘technology’, it’s about greed, plain and simple.

I applaud the Copyright’s board for moving in the right direction. I applaud Apple for not resisting it.

I appreciate and respect other’s opinion on the matter. For me, however, I have seen the wholesale destruction of copyright at a time when the creative community sorely needs it upheld. To further compound the issue, commissioning fees for music score have gone down, due in part to the supply/demand dynamic, but also due in part to many producer’s assumption that alot of the income derives from the ‘backend’. Sometimes that just does not bear out.

I could go on, but it’s time for coffee.


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## X-Bassist (Mar 9, 2019)

dgburns said:


> Not paying for IP and copyright has nothing to do with ‘technology’, it’s about greed, plain and simple.
> 
> I applaud the Copyright’s board for moving in the right direction. I applaud Apple for not resisting it.
> 
> ...



This is true, but producers are also assuming, like much of the public, that music is so easy to create (mainly because of computer and sample technology) that they SHOULD pay less and less for it. Or that a kid in highschool could do it just as well as anyone else (did you see that 5 year old play the piano?!?).

But the truth is a job (making music) that use to involve a team of people has now many times been reduced to one guy (the composer) who tries to do it all and get it done in less time than ever before. The appreciation of creating something from nothing (or very little) has taken a nose dive. It’s as if no one can see the difference between a studio movie and a youtube video from someone’s bedroom- but applied to music. I hate to say it, but like in parts of the film industry, things may have to go back to collective unions in order to make the situation livable again.

And most composers, though reluctant, are going to have to look into making it a group effort again. I use to mix for a number of composers years ago, now most of them want to mix themselves or get a kid to do it for less. Rather than bucking the producers they seem to be becoming like them (save the $$$ for me!). It’s a sad state that I’m waiting to see when it breaks down (when composers and producers work their ass off but still get little to no payoff, while corps get the lion share)


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## Desire Inspires (Mar 9, 2019)

X-Bassist said:


> This is true, but producers are also assuming, like much of the public, that music is so easy to create (mainly because of computer and sample technology) that they SHOULD pay less and less for it. Or that a kid in highschool could do it just as well as anyone else (did you see that 5 year old play the piano?!?).
> 
> But the truth is a job (making music) that use to involve a team of people has now many times been reduced to one guy (the composer) who tries to do it all and get it done in less time than ever before. The appreciation of creating something from nothing (or very little) has taken a nose dive. It’s as if no one can see the difference between a studio movie and a youtube video from someone’s bedroom- but applied to music. I hate to say it, but like in parts of the film industry, things may have to go back to collective unions in order to make the situation livable again.
> 
> And most composers, though reluctant, are going to have to look into making it a group effort again. I use to mix for a number of composers years ago, now most of them want to mix themselves or get a kid to do it for less. Rather than bucking the producers they seem to be becoming like them (save the $$$ for me!). It’s a sad state that I’m waiting to see when it breaks down (when composers and producers work their ass off but still get little to no payoff, while corps get the lion share)



I definitely agree that music should be a group effort. I would love to work with other people on music as a team. 

Unfortunately, many people don’t want to work together. They want to go alone and somehow hope to be able to scrape by. But more money comes from working as a collective. 

So composers don’t want to work together, don’t want to form a union, and get angry at tech companies. But none of those things provide solutions. So I do not see a bright future for music composers unless some unity comes about.


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## X-Bassist (Mar 9, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> I definitely agree that music should be a group effort. I would love to work with other people on music as a team.
> 
> Unfortunately, many people don’t want to work together. They want to go alone and somehow hope to be able to scrape by. But more money comes from working as a collective.
> 
> So composers don’t want to work together, don’t want to form a union, and get angry at tech companies. But none of those things provide solutions. So I do not see a bright future for music composers unless some unity comes about.



Totally agree. Many composer for decades have been trying to work out how to do it all themselves to keep more of the pie, but it’s messed up the entire pie factory.

Hopefully some will figure this out and start to join forces again, for the sake of musical pie everywhere.


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## gregh (Mar 9, 2019)

I don't use the streaming services at all - did for a few years but a waste of time for what I am interested in making - which I know is of little interest here. For example, my last job I worked with one of Australia's major artists, lovely people from the Art Gallery of New South Wales, got to go down in to the Tank Stream tunnels (which is normally by lottery and for only 60 people or so a year), flights meals and great accommodation in Sydney plus paid probably more than about 50-100,000 streams on Spotify. 
Much better for me than my normally very solitary practice in the studio. Pretty much now I am trying to make all my art making social in some direct way - either with and for other people or for exhibition via the art world. Of course I will still make "music" music but perhaps not as much and without any thought of paying someone to list it on a streaming service


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## Daryl (Mar 10, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> So you need to learn how to use these services to your advantage!


It's all very well to say that, but you have no experience in doing what you preach.


Desire Inspires said:


> If these companies are making billions of dollars a year from streaming, you should be able to make hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands a year from streaming.


Not as a composer.


Desire Inspires said:


> The money is out there. Find out how to get in on the action.


By owning the streaming company. When you get companies like Netflix hiring composers as a buyout, you know that they don't have the interests of the composer at heart.


Desire Inspires said:


> Too many "composers" are working hard on trying to buy the next new music library or the buy the next new course on orchestration. Why not invest in a course on how to monetize your music? It makes more sense to learn how to get paid for the skills you already have than to pay for things that may or may not generate any money.


So how is this working out for you? Making those millions yet?


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## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 10, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> It’s not so bad. You gotta learn how to use the technology to your advantage. The tech is here to stay until something else better comes along. So it only makes sense to learn how to manipulate the system to gain strategic advantages. Start zagging while others are zigging.


Are you serious?!
You can't use the technology to your advantage when every time a new distribution platform is created we, composers, lose all that we had gained in previous legal battles.
Tech has nothing to do with it.
Our intellectual property is what is at stakes.


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## Desire Inspires (Mar 10, 2019)

Sounds like you guys need to take some tech courses to brush up on your skills and knowledge.

Complainin about the same old thing and never taking any action has left you guys bitter and confused. I see the future and I am working to make things better. All everyone else sees is the past and the present. No progress is gained without duress.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 10, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> Sounds like you guys need to take some tech courses to brush up on your skills and knowledge.
> 
> Complainin about the same old thing and never taking any action has left you guys bitter and confused. I see the future and I am working to make things better. All everyone else sees is the past and the present. No progress is gained without duress.


The same old thing is getting shafted by big corporations.
You seem to enjoy it.
Duress is second nature for most musicians.
But your failure to acknowledge that the whole music industry has been under attack, and is going through a major crisis is pretty pathetic.
Like Daryl is saying, enjoy the piles of cash that you must be making riding the tech wave, or whatever...


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## gregh (Mar 10, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> Sounds like you guys need to take some tech courses to brush up on your skills and knowledge.
> 
> Complaining about the same old thing and never taking any action has left you guys bitter and confused. I see the future and I am working to make things better. All everyone else sees is the past and the present. No progress is gained without duress.


Mate, I've been working with tech for decades -even teaching (and tenured) in IT at one of the world's top 100 universities. For years. No other industry has ever generated the volume of Kool-Aid that the tech industry has. Sounds like - against all the considerable evidence - you still have the meritocracy belief going.


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## Desire Inspires (Mar 10, 2019)

*The money is out there.....


*


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