# Time+Space ceases trading (see page 4 of thread)



## Mornats (Feb 15, 2022)

www.timespace.com 

It's been down for maintenance since at least Saturday (and it's now Tuesday). That's quite a while, any idea when it will be back up?
@Time+Space


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 15, 2022)

I was wondering about it too. And I have no announcement seen on the site before they closed or here on the froum, no email, really strange and not really a trust-building behaviour for their customers


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## bbrylow (Feb 15, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> I was wondering about it too. And I have no announcement seen on the site before they closed or here on the froum, no email, really strange and not really a trust-building behaviour for their customers


T & S is gone. They have a ceased business operations


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 15, 2022)

Really ? Kind of hard to believe.....doyou have any more detailed info about it ? Does that mean all my software I have bought there is simply gone . And as I thought that they where closely associated with zero-g, does it affect them to ?


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## Braveheart (Feb 15, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> T & S is gone. They have a ceased business operations


Where are you seeing this?


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## bbrylow (Feb 15, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Really ? Kind of hard to believe.....doyou have any more detailed info about it ? Does that mean all my software I have bought there is simply gone . And as I thought that they where closely associated with zero-g, does it affect them to ?


Yeah they are officially done. Operated right up to the very end and then they put a maintenance screen on their website despite the fact that they are not re-launching the business. I would contact the developers of the software to see if you can get it directly from them.

As far as being associated with Zero-G there is no affiliation there. They simply I had a close business relationship to the best of my knowledge but I saw where Stefano confirmed that there was no relationship.


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## bbrylow (Feb 15, 2022)

Braveheart said:


> Where are you seeing this?


I have posted in both of the Sample Libraries Groups on Facebook. There is a number of varying opinions going around but I’m sure it will be a little bit before the formal legal notice is released in the UK.


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## Markrs (Feb 15, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> Yeah they are officially done. Operated right up to the very end and then they put a maintenance screen on their website despite the fact that they are not re-launching the business. I would contact the developers of the software to see if you can get it directly from them.
> 
> As far as being associated with Zero-G there is no affiliation there. They simply I had a close business relationship to the best of my knowledge but I saw where Stefano confirmed that there was no relationship.


They were originally the same company and they separate zero-g out to sell sample libraries they distribute. I think they are separate legal entities but owned by the same people.









Company History


Brief Company HistoryZero-G Limited was founded in 1990, trading under the name Time+Space. During the early 1990's Zero-G (as Time+Space) rapidly became the largest distributor of soundware in the UK and one of the most critically acclaimed sound developers in the world.As such, it gained a...




zero-g.co.uk


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## AceAudioHQ (Feb 15, 2022)

T+S was so expensive I think I bought from them only once (and got angry at them since they added the VAT only at the cashier and I completely missed it)


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## rrichard63 (Feb 15, 2022)

Does anybody know whether Gothic Instruments (Dronar series and Sculptor series) has another retail outlet?


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## brkootnekoff (Feb 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Does anybody know whether Gothic Instruments (Dronar series and Sculptor series) has another retail outlet?











DRONAR


Sample-based virtual instruments for the media composer. Sonora Cinematic: unique sounds, pure inspiration.



sonoracinematic.com


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## Evans (Feb 15, 2022)

Interesting! *If *this is at all true, well, I should have used some of those reward points.

And *if *they are indeed the same owners as Zero-G and *if* this is ends up a messy shutdown, there's little chance I'd buy anything Zero-G again.

If.


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## pulsedownloader (Feb 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Does anybody know whether Gothic Instruments (Dronar series and Sculptor series) has another retail outlet?


Their own website Sonora Cinematic and the pulse.audio store.


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## davidson (Feb 15, 2022)

What? I had a shed load of credit to spend with them. Is this for real? I'm fkn fuming!


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## rrichard63 (Feb 15, 2022)

Evans said:


> I should have used some of those reward points


Rewards points is one issue (although I currently have less than 5 GBP worth). Another is being able to redownload past purchases. If you have anything you bought from T+S that they provided the download links for themselves -- rather than sending you to the developer's website with a code to redeem -- you should back up those downloads NOW.


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## Evans (Feb 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Rewards points is one issue (although I currently have less than 5 GBP worth). Another is being able to redownload past purchases. If you have anything you bought from T+S that they provided the download links for themselves -- rather than sending you to the developer's website with a code to redeem -- you should back up those downloads NOW.


Yeah, I've got a significant number of backups (almost everything backed up twice, except for the rare thing I'd be okay losing), but it's a great callout.


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## davidson (Feb 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Rewards points is one issue (although I currently have less than 5 GBP worth). Another is being able to redownload past purchases. If you have anything you bought from T+S that they provided the download links for themselves -- rather than sending you to the developer's website with a code to redeem -- you should back up those downloads NOW.


Do you know off hand which brands were direct T+S downloads? I'm pretty sure my Ethera purchases were direct downloads from there.


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## rrichard63 (Feb 15, 2022)

EDIT: I was wrong about Gothic Instruments. T+S send me Continuata Connect (or Conduct) codes for them.



davidson said:


> Do you know off hand which brands were direct T+S downloads? I'm pretty sure my Ethera purchases were direct downloads from there.


The only one I know of (because it affects me personally) is Gothic Instruments. Are you sure they didn't give you Continuata Connect serial numbers for your Ethera libraries?


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 15, 2022)

Evans said:


> Interesting! *If *this is at all true, well, I should have used some of those reward points.
> 
> And *if *they are indeed the same owners as Zero-G and *if* this is ends up a messy shutdown, there's little chance I'd buy anything Zero-G again.
> 
> If.





rrichard63 said:


> Rewards points is one issue (although I currently have less than 5 GBP worth). Another is being able to redownload past purchases. If you have anything you bought from T+S that they provided the download links for themselves -- rather than sending you to the developer's website with a code to redeem -- you should back up those downloads NOW.


I wonder what will happen to the continuata download serials (I think they mostly used this, dont think they used pulse for example) ? I think most of the stuff I bought came this way.

And Evans: yes, I agree, if its the same people like Zero-G and they dont take ANY response for their customers at timespace (as it seems NOW) same for me. Even if it will be hard to NOT buy Atlantis and even if I know that its not Stefanos fault at all but I will never ever again buy things from such people. And: I wonder why the guy from timespace who was around here all the time for marketing announcements dont even has the courage to at least to post an info about it.


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## Digivolt (Feb 15, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> As far as being associated with Zero-G there is no affiliation there. They simply I had a close business relationship to the best of my knowledge but I saw where Stefano confirmed that there was no relationship.


Zero-G - https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02652162
Time+Space - https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03312649

Same people and offices, seems odd they would just shut up shop without saying anything so I do question the accuracy of your statement re: them shutting down


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 15, 2022)

Digivolt said:


> Zero-G - https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02652162
> Time+Space - https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03312649
> 
> Same people and offices, seems odd they would just shut up shop without saying anything so I do question the accuracy of your statement re: them shutting down


Then: why no info from the guy who is regularly here in the forum for marketing ? Or from zero-g who are active in here too if I remember well (even if not so regularly).


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## Evans (Feb 15, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Then: why no info from the guy who is regularly here in the forum for marketing ? Or from zero-g who are active in here too if I remember well (even if not so regularly).


There are many reasons why a company may be quiet up front while they get things in order. How they react medium/long term (if at all) is more important.


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## Digivolt (Feb 15, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Then: why no info from the guy who is regularly here in the forum for marketing ? Or from zero-g who are active in here too if I remember well (even if not so regularly).


No idea, I was just giving the info that they are affiliated, so if the guy didn't know that, howcome he's the only person who knows they've shut up shop


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 15, 2022)

Digivolt said:


> No idea, I was just giving the info that they are affiliated, so if the guy didn't know that, howcome he's the only person who knows they've shut up shop


Yes, its all kind of strange, normally I would wait for any kind of "official" statement but in these (strange) times it seems just possible that somethng like this happens. And as I have dozens of libraries bought from Timespace.........


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 15, 2022)

Getting stranger and stranger.....:






Zero-G Nexus FREE with purchase at Time+Space


Details here: https://www.timespace.com/blogs/offers/ends-28th-february-get-zero-g-nexus-free-with-any-purchase




vi-control.net


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## rrichard63 (Feb 15, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> Yeah they are officially done. Operated right up to the very end and then they put a maintenance screen on their website despite the fact that they are not re-launching the business. I would contact the developers of the software to see if you can get it directly from them.
> 
> As far as being associated with Zero-G there is no affiliation there. They simply I had a close business relationship to the best of my knowledge but I saw where Stefano confirmed that there was no relationship.


Rereading this post a couple of hours later, I'm not sure what it actually says. It certainly doesn't mention any evidence for the assertion that T+S "are not re-launching the business". Is there any evidence?


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## Zedcars (Feb 15, 2022)

Still listed as "Active on Companies House. But if you go and take a look at their last financial statement it doesn't look that great. I'm kind of shocked actually. They've been around for a long time and I've bought from them now and again since I started making music in the late 90's.

Companies House info


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## Digivolt (Feb 15, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> Zero-G actually is not that company, is not Zero-G Limited that is another company.
> 
> Wrong information, As I said.
> 
> I Repeat, What I know, is that Zero-G ( of this time ) and T+S are separate Entities.


This isn't true and it's worrying you don't know the company information considering you do your business with them

From their T&C page on the Zero-G website - https://zero-g.co.uk/pages/terms-and-conditions



> *Our contact details *
> The full name of our company is Zero-G Limited (registered in England no. 02652162) and our registered company address is:
> 
> 
> ...


The same company info I posted from here - https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02652162


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## Zedcars (Feb 15, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> Zero-G actually is not that company, is not Zero-G Limited that is another company.
> 
> Wrong information, As I said.
> 
> I Repeat, What I know, is that Zero-G ( of this time ) and T+S are separate Entities.


Why do you say that link isn't Zero-G Limited? Where do you get your information from on this?


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## Zedcars (Feb 15, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> That is not Zero-G


I don't wish to be awkward, but I'll continue to believe it is unless you can prove otherwise. Sure looks like the company to me.


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## gamma-ut (Feb 15, 2022)

I'm sorry Stefano, but they're both subsidiaries of Zerotime and they are both based in Okehampton and share directors. And the Zero-G I get emails from is in Okehampton.

I suspect they've had a bit of server meltdown and that coming soon banner is just the placeholder while someone works out how out of date the most useful backup is.


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## Digivolt (Feb 15, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> it is not correct. I know what i said, I have not a contract with Zero-G LTD


So their own website is lying ?


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## StefanoM (Feb 15, 2022)

Digivolt said:


> So their own website is lying ?


No simply there are different company


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## Zedcars (Feb 15, 2022)

Sorry, but this is just silly. You're not providing any evidence to the contrary here.


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## gamma-ut (Feb 15, 2022)

The Companies House link that Zedcars posted shows Zero-G Ltd. At the same address as T+S and Zerotime.


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 15, 2022)

The NEW Time+Space marketing link was just HALF AN HOUR AGO. Linking to a page that DOES NOT EXIST at the moment. Asking in that thread for a clarification in here (half an hour ago when the new thread was opened) did not get any reaction.

So: does the guy in here (member "Time+space" since 2009) does not know that his site/company no longer exists ?

Why he dont try to clarify things when I/the thread here is completely wrong ?


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## mussnig (Feb 15, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> I repeat it is not the same company...


But it seams to be the company that sells your samples: https://zero-g.co.uk/pages/privacy

"Our Site, is owned and operated by Zero-G, a limited company registered in England under 02652162 whose registered address is Unit 7, Okehampton Business Centre, Higher Stockley Mead, Okehampton, Devon EX20 1FJ."


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## Zedcars (Feb 15, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> The NEW Time+Space marketing link was just HALF AN HOUR AGO. Linking to a page that DOES NOT EXIST at the moment. Asking in that thread for a clarification in here (half an hour ago when the new thread was opened) did not get any reaction.
> 
> So: does the guy in here (member "Time+space" since 2009) does not know that his site/company no longer exists ?
> 
> Why he dont try to clarify things when I/the thread here is completely wrong ?


Perhaps he/she hasn't been told yet himself/herself.


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## Zedcars (Feb 15, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> Hey, look I'm trying to figure it out like you. I have worked for years on my libraries. So if there is an injured party here it is me. I'm just telling you what I KNOW.
> 
> SO CHANGE your TONE!


I don't mean to have a go at you, really I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just confused as to why you are so insistent about this when all the evidence is showing otherwise.


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## Digivolt (Feb 15, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> No simply there are different company


Perhaps it's lost in translation, we know that T&S & Zero-G are not the same company, but they're run by the same family, have one person as the same director for both companies and are both situated at the same address


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 15, 2022)

Sent a üm


Zedcars said:


> Perhaps he/she hasn't been told yet himself/herself.


Yes, wont wonder as strange as this all seems. Just sent a pm to that guy.......think if this thread is all bs and wrong he should be interested to clarify......and if he simply dont know......sad evening, maybe more concerned then we all.....


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## Zedcars (Feb 15, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> because I KNOW what I Said.
> 
> Zero-G LTD and The Company with which I have a contract are NOT the same. so it's NOT Zero-G LTD


Yes, I agree. They are not the same entities - separate companies that share the same address and directors. However, the link provided is Zero-G Ltd. That's the company. You said it wasn't. That's all I'm confused about here. lol


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## Zedcars (Feb 15, 2022)

This thread is weird. I think I'll bow out.

Sad day if T+S really have gone under. Really sad day.


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## rrichard63 (Feb 15, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> The NEW Time+Space marketing link was just HALF AN HOUR AGO. Linking to a page that DOES NOT EXIST at the moment


@KarlHeinz, that post was from last Thursday, five days ago.

Also, it's currently about 10:30 at night in England, so I'm not surpised that no one from T+S or Zero-G is monitoring these threads right now.


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 15, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> @KarlHeinz, that post was from last Thursday, five days ago.
> 
> Also, it's currently about 10:30 at night in England, so I'm not surpised that no one from T+S or Zero-G is monitoring these threads.


Yes, you are absolutely right, sorry, seems it drives ME kind of mad , I just have seen it popping up on the latest posts but did not realized that it was popping up cause someone else asked the same question about Time+Space today.

Really sorry for amplifying the confusion......


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## Digivolt (Feb 15, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Yes, you are absolutely right, sorry, seems it drives ME kind of mad , I just have seen it popping up on the latest posts but did not realized that it was popping up cause someone else asked the same question about Time+Space today.
> 
> Really sorry for amplifying the confusion......


They logged in though, check their profile 


> Last seen 52 minutes ago · Managing account details


So weird


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## rrichard63 (Feb 15, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> I said that Zero-G LTD IS NOT the company beyond the distribution of my libraries.
> 
> So regarding MY libraries Actually nothing is changed and this is what is important to ME.
> If I have any news regarding the distribution of my libraries I will inform you.
> ...


It looks like Stefano's relationship is with Xfonic Limited






XFONIC LIMITED overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK


XFONIC LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity




find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk





Different address, different people.

The user manuals for some of his libraries say "Xfonic" while others say "Zero-G/Xfonic". As long as the Zero-G website stays in operation, the distribution of his libraries should not be affected.


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 15, 2022)

Digivolt said:


> They logged in though, check their profile
> 
> So weird


Yes, no matter if I messed this up, but if someone has logged in from the company the last hour it should be worth a clarifying......


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## Zedcars (Feb 15, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> So regarding MY libraries Actually nothing is changed and this is what is important to ME.
> If I have any news regarding the distribution of my libraries I will inform you.
> 
> Looks what there is at the end of this manual, just to understand, and T+S ( I said again ) is another thing.
> ...


I think we must have been talking at cross purposes. I understand where you were coming from now. Seems like Zero-G partnered with Xfonic.


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## StefanoM (Feb 15, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> I think we must have been talking at cross purposes. I understand where you were coming from now. Seems like Zero-G partnered with Xfonic.


Yes,

I'm talking about my libraries and like a developer from my point of view.

So that I write is regarding my libraries and what I know.
So actually, I repeat, to me, nothing is changing. The Zero-G website is On-Line as usual; based on what I Know, Zero-G is not affected by the T+S situation (I don't know what kind of case is)

And this is important to me because I'm launching a new great library, where I worked on it for over eight months.

And I have a lot of libraries out there that are like my sons and part of my life.
So it's not a Hobby to me or just speculation.

It's most important to figure out the situation to me ( like for other developers that also sell on T+S)

So I want to inform you of what I Know about my libraries, so for now, everything is the same, and of course, I'm really sad for T+S, and I hope everything will be good for everyone involved because it is always sad when these things happen.

I see you on 25th Feb for the launch of Atlantis.


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## bbrylow (Feb 15, 2022)

Markrs said:


> They were originally the same company and they separate zero-g out to sell sample libraries they distribute. I think they are separate legal entities but owned by the same people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They were originally the same company and now are two separate legal entities. No one is currently in a position to make a public statement right now as to the exact reasons for this. More will come out in the future.


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## bbrylow (Feb 15, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Then: why no info from the guy who is regularly here in the forum for marketing ? Or from zero-g who are active in here too if I remember well (even if not so regularly).


To the best of my knowledge, this is not some thing that they are yet ready to go public with as notifications are still being made to the business community.


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## Futchibon (Feb 15, 2022)




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## Reid Rosefelt (Feb 15, 2022)

Well if people have verified information about the truth of T+S closing, then that's that.

But I do wonder if there is more to the story. It was so sudden. It could be a ransomware attack. I'm just conjecturing. But that would explain why this came up without warning and why nobody wants to talk about it. T+S people have apparently visited this forum and Cakewalk and said nothing. It's possible they are lurking to see what people are saying. 

If they are indeed closing, I will miss them. They have been great to deal with over the years.


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## bbrylow (Feb 15, 2022)

Reid Rosefelt said:


> Well if people have verified information about the truth of T+S closing, then that's that.
> 
> But I do wonder if there is more to the story. It was so sudden. It could be a ransomware attack. I'm just conjecturing. But that would explain why this came up without warning and why nobody wants to talk about it. T+S people have apparently visited this forum and Cakewalk and said nothing. It's possible they are lurking to see what people are saying.
> 
> If they are indeed closing, I will miss them. They have been great to deal with over the years.


This is in fact verified information however the backstory behind this is not some thing that at this time is public knowledge and it appears that no one involved in it wants to make it so.


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## Fleer (Feb 15, 2022)

Reid Rosefelt said:


> Well if people have verified information about the truth of T+S closing, then that's that.
> 
> But I do wonder if there is more to the story. It was so sudden. It could be a ransomware attack. I'm just conjecturing. But that would explain why this came up without warning and why nobody wants to talk about it. T+S people have apparently visited this forum and Cakewalk and said nothing. It's possible they are lurking to see what people are saying.
> 
> If they are indeed closing, I will miss them. They have been great to deal with over the years.


Would really miss them too.


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## kevinh (Feb 15, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> This is in fact verified information however the backstory behind this is not some thing that at this time is public knowledge and it appears that no one involved in it wants to make it so.


I heard House of Gucci director is acquiring rights and Lady Gaga is on board…it’s a doozy


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## bbrylow (Feb 15, 2022)

kevinh said:


> I heard House of Gucci director is acquiring rights and Lady Gaga is on board…it’s a doozy


Uh huh


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## Henu (Feb 15, 2022)

Reid Rosefelt said:


> Well if people have verified information about the truth of T+S closing, then that's that.


I've only seen claims thus far. Unless @bbrylow is somehow personally linked to the peeps behind T&S, I'm not taking any "I heard it from a trustworthy source" as granted. No offense, naturally- that's how healthy source criticism works.


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## StefanoM (Feb 16, 2022)

Evans said:


> Interesting! *If *this is at all true, well, I should have used some of those reward points.
> 
> And *if *they are indeed the same owners as Zero-G and *if* this is ends up a messy shutdown, there's little chance I'd buy anything Zero-G again.
> 
> If.


Zero-G ( The Zero-G of TODAY not the Zero-G of 1990 ) is not T+S as it was said, different company, different people.
In addition to this, the Loyalty Coupon is always Valid.
So If you have bought for example one Ethera on T+S or Best Service, the Loyalty works also on the Zero-G Web Site. You have just to write an email at the specific mail.


On T+S there are:

East-West
Spectrasonics,
Impact Soundworks
Toontrack
Sonuscore
Soundiron
PreSonus
Zero-G
Bela D Media
Audiomodern
ProjectSAM
VSL
Rob Papen
etc
etc
etc

So you will not buy anything from these brands anymore... because T+S is closing, this is a little bit no sense to me.


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 16, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> Zero-G ( The Zero-G of TODAY not the Zero-G of 1990 ) is not T+S, in addition to this, the Loyalty Coupon is always Valid.
> So If you have bought for example one Ethera on T+S or Best Service, the Loyalty works also on the Zero-G Web Site. You have just to write an email at the specific mail.
> 
> So what you are saying has not too much sense.
> ...


Hi Stefano, I completely understand your view but as a buyer there is of course another one.

So for example the Ethera libraries. I have most (if not all, maybe I miss one or two of the older ones) of them and all bought from Time+Space simply cause they have a payment option thats not available at Zero-G directly.

Now I am simply worrying if they are just disappearing in the dust do my libraries (if I just need to download them again for a new installation or whatever) disappear with them ? I think mostly are continuata downloads but from which servers ? Will they disappear with them ?

I hope there will be an announcement for this and a solution (so for example if Zero-G takes response for it) but if not I will simple dont buy anymore from the same people owning both companies and beying responsive for this. Cause if they do it one time I can be sure they will do it another time the same way and my trust is simply gone.

The other companies you mentioned mostly have their own response for the downloads of their products so thats not really comparable to the Ethera situation on Time+Space for me.

But I really hope there will be a clarification and solution


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 16, 2022)

> Then I just told you they're not the same people and the same company


As far as I understood the thread so far they ARE the same people owning different companies (Time+Space, Zero-G,......) ?

Nothing against backups but for me one criteria for buying libraries is if I will be able to redownload the original in the case something went wrong OR available updates, which is another point. I dont know how many updates there have been for the Ethera libraries but at least there have been some. At the moment for the latest libraries Zero-G had offered a direct dowload so that might be one of the possible solutions mentioned.



> And a user who bought EASTWEST on T + S? it's the same thing.


Yes, definitely, I dont want to point the attention to your libraries especially, its just an example and you are here .

I dont even have an actual overview about all the libraries I have bought on Time+Space, why should I if I have an account ? For all companies I know who had shut down there was a period where they offered to download your stuff finally.

I agree that these are peanuts compared to the worries this actually causes for you as a develloper and I really hope it wont strike you in anyway but I think my thoughts are legit too as long as there is no info about it. Especially hoping that this might cause them to at least think about it.....

Still I hope there will be explanations and solutions......


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## StefanoM (Feb 16, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> As far as I understood the thread so far they ARE the same people owning different companies (Time+Space, Zero-G,......) ?
> 
> Nothing against backups but for me one criteria for buying libraries is if I will be able to redownload the original in the case something went wrong OR available updates, which is another point. I dont know how many updates there have been for the Ethera libraries but at least there have been some. At the moment for the latest libraries Zero-G had offered a direct dowload so that might be one of the possible solutions mentioned.
> 
> ...


You misunderstood because so much confusion has been made here by people who do not know things and are misinformed, and they are creating a lot of speculation and wrong information in this thread. I repeat, based on my knowledge, that ( Today Year 2022 ) T+S and Zero-G are NOT the same entity, and they are NOT the same people. They are not the same company. This is what I know as the developer of many libraries that I've produced for Zero-G Team (and not for T+S), and What I can say is much more structured than what many people are saying in this speculative thread, which is creating only confusion, even with a bit of malice towards me from someone.


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## Mornats (Feb 16, 2022)

I think part of the confusion is that Time + Space and Zero-G are based in the same office. T+S are 7a-7b Cranmere Road in Okehampton and Zero-G are 7b Cranmere Road. Google street view shows that unit 7a and 7b share the same door (there's a sign above it with A/B on it). I'm not saying anyone's wrong, just pointing to something that's confusing things!

I'm really sad that it looks bad for T+S. I've spent thousands there over the years and they were the first VI company I bought from. Their customer service has been outstanding for me. Recently I won one of their prize draws and they were amazing to deal with through that too. I wish them all the very best.


----------



## Jaap (Feb 16, 2022)

__





ZERO-G LIMITED - EXETER







www.checkcompany.co.uk








__





TIME + SPACE DISTRIBUTION LIMITED - 1 CITY ROAD EAST







www.checkcompany.co.uk





I have no idea how the companies are run and I hope that it will turn out ok as both are great companies to be honest! The above links show just the official company info and both seem to be connected as you can see in the above via the company officers (directors).


----------



## StefanoM (Feb 16, 2022)

Jaap said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jaap,
no, we are talking of different things.

Zero-G LTD ( TODAY ) is not the Company that produces the libraries, as I'm saying is Xfonic LTD, and it's a different company, different people. Zero-G is a historical "brand" but the companies are different. Zero-G LTD is the old company and IS not the company beyond for example my libraries, that is Xfonic LTD.

I ran out of energy from saying it. It's enough for me.

If we want to keep writing things without knowing them, go ahead.

The T+S closing is really SAD for everything that is involved like 3rd part developers.


----------



## Bemused (Feb 16, 2022)

This just posted on FB :
https://www.facebook.com/timespaced...W-4b3vseLNfLxC7UG_4CV-jj-66jn2hw&__tn__=<,P-R
*Time & Space Audio Plug-Ins*​5m · 


To our valued customers,
It's with deep regret that we have to inform you that Time+Space will no longer be trading. The decision has not been taken lightly and is as disappointing for us as it is for you. We understand that some people will be negatively affected by this decision and we ask for your patience while we work through this difficult process.
We'd like to say a big thank you for all your support over the years - particularly those of you who have been with us since the early days, your loyalty has been hugely appreciated.
T+S Team


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## musicsoftwaredeals (Feb 16, 2022)

At the bottom of the Time & Space 2021 return:

"The company's immediate parent is ZeroTime Audio Ltd." (http://www.checkcompany.co.uk/company/10663520/ZEROTIME-AUDIO-LIMITED)

So maybe the "parent" company shut down Time & Space but are keeping other operations going. From their last return, it looks like they had debts of £550k (down from £650k in the previous year)


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## Mornats (Feb 16, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> No, that information is another thing.
> Zero-G Sample Libraries is actually another company xfonic LTD and is a different company, different office, different people. How many times do I have to repeat it?


I'm only pointing out why it's confusing as it's easy to see what appears to be a link between the companies. It sounds like there's a Zero-G company and a Zero-G brand which are unrelated. But it's confusing! And the confusing links between the two are very to look up which doesn't help.


----------



## Mornats (Feb 16, 2022)

Bemused said:


> This just posted on FB :
> https://www.facebook.com/timespacedistribution/?__cft__[0]=AZVmQKtmpLSFrMCw_aqZUlDkT3QYipj6uyF9HZLtRGUIYbryvJHWIXIxI8odQXn3rw5_JVK2mWtyjxM9zg_4Xm9RafxWDJ6p8PEdmsarUtleAQ3NBRMzSLjbGbPGmNfEBpHRidwrWK6UJqW-4b3vseLNfLxC7UG_4CV-jj-66jn2hw&__tn__=<,P-R
> *Time & Space Audio Plug-Ins*​5m ·
> 
> ...


Oh man that sucks. They were a great company to deal with. Best wishes to all their amazing staff.


----------



## Bemused (Feb 16, 2022)

And confirmed by T&S on the Cakewalk forum


----------



## Mornats (Feb 16, 2022)

I'll edit the title to reflect the news.


----------



## Jaap (Feb 16, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> Jaap,
> no, we are talking of different things.
> 
> Zero-G LTD ( TODAY ) is not the Company that produces the libraries, as I'm saying is Xfonic LTD, and it's a different company, different people. Zero-G is a "brand" but the companies are different. Zero-G LTD is the old company and IS not the company beyond my libraries that is Xfonic LTD.
> ...


Clear for me now! Sorry for confusing things even more


----------



## KarlHeinz (Feb 16, 2022)

At least it seems they will try to give us a chance for downloading our stuff and give us some info:



> Jack Daniel Hale
> Jack from the tech support team here, we are working through ensuring customers will have access to their old orders, and serials. Once we have more information all customers will be contacted with further details. As you can imagine we have a lot to work through so this may take some time.
> Please bear with us. And we apologise for any issues caused by this matter.


Really sad news


----------



## gamma-ut (Feb 16, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> No, that information is another thing.
> Zero-G Sample Libraries is actually another company xfonic LTD and is a different company, different office, different people. How many times do I have to repeat it?


I think people get that your deal is with Xfonic. However, nobody else here actually deals with Xfonic directly: they've bought the libraries from Zero-G Ltd (or indeed T+S) and which carry Zero-G branding. To my knowledge Xfonic doesn't do direct sales. So, it should come as little surprise that people are a bit more concerned about Zero-G in Unit 7, Okehampton than a company few will have heard of unless they read right to the bottom of a product manual.


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Feb 16, 2022)

Seems people will hopefully be able to download and backup their purchases. From a quick glance at the accounting statement for 2020 for T+S, they had around £250,000 owed to banks, it's very sad to see them go.


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## gamma-ut (Feb 16, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> but why are you continuing?


I thought I just explained that, but you do you.


----------



## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Feb 16, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> Yes of course,
> 
> but why are you continuing? I have explained the situation to you. And keep going.
> What changes you, I do not understand. Zero-G website is there. That's all. I'm done explaining. Now I'm going to solve more important things since the most affected by this matter are us, developers.


I think people are more concerned with their purchases on T+S of Ethera products, however, as I just posted above, it seems that people will still be able to download and back up their T+S purchases, so there shouldn't be anything to worry about at the minute until we find out more information


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## gamma-ut (Feb 16, 2022)

Where was there malice towards you?


----------



## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Feb 16, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> indeed...
> 
> so a lot of speculation and also malice towards me. lack of empathy in so many people.


Yeah, this thread is a bit filled with panic, but that's understandable given the lack of information from T+S until a few minutes ago, sorry for any malice anyone has pointed towards you.


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## StefanoM (Feb 16, 2022)

gamma-ut said:


> Where was there malice towards you?


see above...


----------



## gamma-ut (Feb 16, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> see above...


 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Mornats (Feb 16, 2022)

Hi Stefano, you are one of the most engaging developers around, someone who listens and responds to your customers in the most amazing way. There is much love for you on here and I'm sure there was no malice intended towards you. We're all trying to make sense of a very confusing situation.


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## Braveheart (Feb 16, 2022)

I understand the concern, as I spent thousands of dollars over the years there. I want to make sure I have access to everything I bought, I still have some recent purchases not downloaded. Stefano has as many reasons to be concerned that we are when a distributor of his products go away.


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## Phillip Dixon (Feb 16, 2022)

I've got a fair chunk of loyalty points that I've been hanging on to, for a certain purpose, never going to use sites that use this system again


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## MikeRolls (Feb 16, 2022)

Just seen this thread - end of an era. Uninteresting fact: I remember going to their offices when they were originally located in my home town (Berkhamsted in Hertfordshire) to buy some sample CDs, that must have been about 1998 or so. I think one of them was Bob Clearmountain's Drums.
Things have changed a lot since then.. Anyway, just reminiscing to myself..


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## Digivolt (Feb 16, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> also malice towards me


I don't think that has been the intent of anyone Stefano so please don't think this way

Sad to see it's official they've gone, I don't think Brexit would have helped them, nor the inflation we're currently experiencing in UK so I wonder if it's a combination of those that finally tipped them over the edge


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Feb 16, 2022)

In 2020 they apparently had £251000 of debt owed to banks, so I think it's been a long time coming, the figure was practically the same in 2019 as well


Digivolt said:


> I don't think that has been the intent of anyone Stefano so please don't think this way
> 
> Sad to see it's official they've gone, I don't think Brexit would have helped them, nor the inflation we're currently experiencing in UK so I wonder if it's a combination of those that finally tipped them over the edge


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## davidson (Feb 16, 2022)

GeorgeThatMusicGuy said:


> In 2020 they apparently had £251000 of debt owed to banks, so I think it's been a long time coming, the figure was practically the same in 2019 as well


I wonder why? I mean, they dealt with predominately digital stock and didn't have a store front. Staff? Surely not that many needed? Inflated dividends paid to directors? Probably.


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Feb 16, 2022)

davidson said:


> I wonder why? I mean, they dealt with predominately digital stock and didn't have a store front. Staff? Surely not that many needed? Inflated dividends paid to directors? Probably.


Might be rent as well, not really sure. Zero G had in 2020 around 47K owed to the banks from the looks of it too


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## doctoremmet (Feb 16, 2022)

davidson said:


> I wonder why? I mean, they dealt with predominately digital stock and didn't have a store front. Staff? Surely not that many needed? Inflated dividends paid to directors? Probably.


Dividends are usually paid to shareholders. Maybe the directors are also shareholders of course. But I doubt one could get a bank loan and legally use it to pay out dividends to a holding company or other shareholders. Typically certain continental European tax authorities are going to judge that as an ‘actio pauliana’. So dividends seem kind of unlikely?


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## gamma-ut (Feb 16, 2022)

I think people may be getting a bit ahead of themselves with the speculation over dividends and stuff. T+S did ship boxes as well as digital and would have had to pay for stock and licences upfront that they then could have wound up selling at a loss for various reasons.

You can only pay dividends out of profits or even the UK taxman starts getting irritable about it. However, you can pay whatever salary you like to directors and it's entirely possible to have negative cashflow and positive profits - for a while.

But in a business with thin margins, as distribution is, it's always possible to rack up a large debt to the point the bank calls it in.


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## davidson (Feb 16, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Dividends are usually paid to shareholders. Maybe the directors are also shareholders of course. But I doubt one could get a bank loan and legally use it to pay out dividends to a holding company or other shareholders. Typically certain continental European tax authorities are going to judge that as an ‘actio pauliana’. So dividends seem kind of unlikely?


I'd imagine the directors hold the shares, yes. They may well have had directors loans owed to the business, its quite common.


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## davidson (Feb 16, 2022)

gamma-ut said:


> I think people may be getting a bit ahead of themselves with the speculation over dividends and stuff. T+S did ship boxes as well as digital and would have had to pay for stock and licences upfront that they then could have wound up selling at a loss for various reasons.
> 
> You can only pay dividends out of profits or even the UK taxman starts getting irritable about it. However, you can pay whatever salary you like to directors and it's entirely possible to have negative cashflow and positive profits - for a while.
> 
> But in a business with thin margins, as distribution is, it's always possible to rack up a large debt to the point the bank calls it in.


The whole thread is 98.5% speculation. If they're not going to be upfront with customers, I'll just take wild guesses thank you very much :D


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## shadowsoflight (Feb 16, 2022)

Dang. I had been saving loyalty points to help with a specific purchase, which I was literally planning to make this past weekend.

I had definitely chosen to focus on T+S over other online shops.

Fun Fact: many years ago, I had chosen to focus on Camel Audio Alchemy and the Cakewalk trio of Z3ta+2, Dimension Pro and Rapture over other synths. Getting a little PTSD about this...

On another note, I've seen this type of shock several times in my real job over the past few years. People are good at hiding these decisions until the first concrete "public" actions need to take place.

Very sad to see them go, hope that the staff are all doing okay.


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## bbrylow (Feb 16, 2022)

Henu said:


> I've only seen claims thus far. Unless @bbrylow is somehow personally linked to the peeps behind T&S, I'm not taking any "I heard it from a trustworthy source" as granted. No offense, naturally- that's how healthy source criticism works.


I am not part of the organization but am aware of the situation. I am not violating any confidences here. I shared the news, end of story.


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Feb 16, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> I am not part of the organization but am aware of the situation. I am not violating any confidences here. I shared the news, end of story.


Additionally, this has now been unfortunately confirmed by T+S. A sad day for sure


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## BelaDMedia (Feb 16, 2022)

They are in liquidation. Sadly, some of us lost financially on sales already made - That's all I will say. Wishing the staff good health and better days.


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 16, 2022)

BelaDMedia said:


> They are in liquidation. Sadly, some of us lost financially on sales already made - That's all I will say. Wishing the staff good health and better days.


This is definitely worse then maybe loosing the option to download and backup all my bought stuff before they gone finally .

Really hope it is not to severe for your business and that it does not hit in general especially all the small devellopers selling their stuff threw Time+Space to hard.

As this was one of only three of your authorized resellers I can imagine that, apart from the direct financial loss, hits you hard.


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## dunamisstudio (Feb 16, 2022)

Well with seeing this thread, went to my T+S emails and grabbed backups of my downloads and receipts. Bummer this happened. Had some loyalty points stocking up from last year.


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## cedricm (Feb 16, 2022)

shadowsoflight said:


> Dang. I had been saving loyalty points to help with a specific purchase, which I was literally planning to make this past weekend.
> 
> I had definitely chosen to focus on T+S over other online shops.
> 
> ...


Well, Z3ta+2, Dimension Pro and Rapture are still excellent synths.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Feb 16, 2022)

Sorry to see T+S go. I'll miss them.

Right now I'm just making sure I've got confirmation of my purchases from third parties. In case of updates or upgrades, I'll need to have some way to show the developer I actually bought their product from T+S.


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## Mornats (Feb 16, 2022)

Bemused and someone else already posted this above but I'll link it again for newcomers to the thread. Jack - one of the wonderful support guys from T+S put this on their Facebook thread:






I think it would be wise to dig out what you can from your inboxes anyway but hopefully T+S will sort their customers out so they won't lose their past purchases. Sadly, it probably isn't looking too good for the developers who may be out of pocket. I now have some cause for concern as to what may happen with some developers who relied on T+S for some or most of their income.


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## tc9000 (Feb 16, 2022)

shadowsoflight said:


> Fun Fact: many years ago, I had chosen to focus on Camel Audio Alchemy and the Cakewalk trio of Z3ta+2, Dimension Pro and Rapture over other synths. Getting a little PTSD about this...


I bought Alchemy and all of the additional DLC on ipad and then <ZAP> Apple bought them up and nuked everything. A tiny loss in the grand scheme of things but I still shake my fist at the sky every now and then over that one


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## Peter Satera (Feb 16, 2022)

I hope we can pull back what we need. I've bought so much from them... Zebra, diva, omnisphere, komplete collectors edition, it goes on and on...


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## ScarletJerry (Feb 16, 2022)

I don’t understand the backup issue. If you downloaded the libraries you purchased and you put them on a backup disk, what is there to fear? that’s what I did - should I be concerned?

Scarlet Jerry


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## Land of Missing Parts (Feb 16, 2022)

ScarletJerry said:


> I don’t understand the backup issue. If you downloaded the libraries you purchased and you put them on a backup disk, what is there to fear? that’s what I did - should I be concerned?
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Let's say last year you bought Cinesamples Piano in Blue from Time+Space. It wasn't a Kontakt Player library, so T+S sent a continuata download code, you downloaded and saved a backup.

A year later, T+S has disappeared. Cinesamples is offering an upgraded version of Piano in Blue to customers who own the previous version. But you're not in Cinesample's system, and you're not in NI's system. 

Yes, you have a backup. But in order to update or upgrade, you'd need a way to prove to Cinesamples that you bought it.


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## Fidelity (Feb 16, 2022)

I'm sorry that T+S had to shut down, but the way they did it so suddenly without warning is sketchy. What they've done to companies like BelaDMedia should be criminal, though I know nothing about legal stuff and doubt it is :/


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## dunamisstudio (Feb 16, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Let's say last year you bought Cinesamples Piano in Blue from Time+Space. It wasn't a Kontakt Player library, so T+S sent a continuata download code, you downloaded and saved a backup.
> 
> A year later, T+S has disappeared. Cinesamples is offering an upgraded version of Piano in Blue to customers who own the previous version. But you're not in Cinesample's system, and you're not in NI's system.
> 
> Yes, you have a backup. But in order to update or upgrade, you'd need a way to prove to Cinesamples that you bought it.


Keep a copy of your receipts then.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Feb 16, 2022)

Fidelity said:


> I'm sorry that T+S had to shut down, but the way they did it so suddenly without warning is sketchy. What they've done to companies like BelaDMedia should be criminal, though I know nothing about legal stuff and doubt it is :/


It's all around you... it's capitalism and the risks everyone takes partaking in it.


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## ScarletJerry (Feb 16, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Let's say last year you bought Cinesamples Piano in Blue from Time+Space. It wasn't a Kontakt Player library, so T+S sent a continuata download code, you downloaded and saved a backup.
> 
> A year later, T+S has disappeared. Cinesamples is offering an upgraded version of Piano in Blue to customers who own the previous version. But you're not in Cinesample's system, and you're not in NI's system.
> 
> Yes, you have a backup. But in order to update or upgrade, you'd need a way to prove to Cinesamples that you bought it.


OK. I understand that. I bought Symphobia 2 from Time +Space, and I know that an update is on the way. I’m assuming that my Kontakt install serial number would be sufficient to prove ownership. I guess it would depend on the developer.

Scarlet Jerry


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## dunamisstudio (Feb 16, 2022)

ScarletJerry said:


> OK. I understand that. I bought Symphobia 2 from Time +Space, and I know that an update is on the way. I’m assuming that my Kontakt install serial number would be sufficient to prove ownership. I guess it would depend on the developer.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Register it with ProjectSAM. I bought Lumina from T+S in December. I've already registered with ProjectSAM. Any updates should come to your Native Access.


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 16, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> Register it with ProjectSAM. I bought Lumina from T+S in December. I've already registered with ProjectSAM. Any updates should come to your Native Access.


That might work in some cases but definitely not with evry develloper. For me the problem is with buying from them stuff over more then a decade I dont even know exactly WHAT I bought from them when. I have lots of devellopers where I bought stuff from different shops. So for example something like Ethera or Dronar from timespace, bestservice, zero-g......

So without being able to at least login into my account (thats what accounts are for: keep track of your order history) and get a list of my orders it would be extremly difficult to get that stuff together, not to talk about downloading at least the actual state. 

I really hope that at least this will be possible or they would sent of the orders as an email to all customers.


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## Ben H (Feb 16, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> Keep a copy of your receipts then.



I save a copy of the receipt with each of the libraries I backup, as a habit.


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## Mornats (Feb 17, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> I really hope that at least this will be possible or they would sent of the orders as an email to all customers.


Jack from T+S support said on Facebook that they're working on doing this but it may take a while as there's a lot to get through. Let's hope they can get through it.


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## ZTime (Feb 17, 2022)

Mornats said:


> Jack from T+S support said on Facebook that they're working on doing this but it may take a while as there's a lot to get through. Let's hope they can get through it.


Let's truly hope so!


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## ZTime (Feb 17, 2022)

Thanks T+S guys for all the years, well over 20! Your customer and artist support was one of the best and friendliest!

Also thanks for being the distributor and believed in my early work back in the days!

All the best to you all for the future wherever that might lead you to!

You should be proud of yourself what you have achieved! Love from Finlandia!


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## Roger Newton (Feb 17, 2022)

What a surprise. I remember going round there nearly 20 years ago to pick the then groundbreaking VSL Symphonic library. They were run by a lady then; I don't know if they changed hands over the years or anything like that.
They had two main rooms in this building on a countrified business estate. At the end of one room there was a small enclave where you could go and test any sample library around in those days. Everything was in boxes on disks.


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## davidson (Feb 17, 2022)

Roger Newton said:


> What a surprise. I remember going round there nearly 20 years ago to pick the then groundbreaking VSL Symphonic library. They were run by a lady then; I don't know if they changed hands over the years or anything like that.
> They had two main rooms in this building on a countrified business estate. At the end of one room there was a small enclave where you could go and test any sample library around in those days. Everything was in boxes on disks.


Zia? Yeah she was great, really helpful.


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## ZTime (Feb 17, 2022)

Roger Newton said:


> What a surprise. I remember going round there nearly 20 years ago to pick the then groundbreaking VSL Symphonic library. They were run by a lady then; I don't know if they changed hands over the years or anything like that.
> They had two main rooms in this building on a countrified business estate. At the end of one room there was a small enclave where you could go and test any sample library around in those days. Everything was in boxes on disks.


Yes I was there as well at the time, actually in the year 2000. I don't remember the lady but I was on a meeting with Zero-G though.


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## Roger Newton (Feb 17, 2022)

She was the owner if I remember correctly.

There were all these boxes of sample libraries in the room on the left. It was like walking into a toy shop for the first time.


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## Paj (Feb 17, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Let's say last year you bought Cinesamples Piano in Blue from Time+Space. It wasn't a Kontakt Player library, so T+S sent a continuata download code, you downloaded and saved a backup.
> 
> A year later, T+S has disappeared. Cinesamples is offering an upgraded version of Piano in Blue to customers who own the previous version. But you're not in Cinesample's system, and you're not in NI's system.
> 
> Yes, you have a backup. But in order to update or upgrade, you'd need a way to prove to Cinesamples that you bought it.


If Cinesamples is still using Continuata Connect/Conduct, all you may have to do is re-enter your original download serial and opt for re-installation. In effect, the most recent Dronar Guitarscapes update from Time+Space worked that way. I'm not sure whether the developer (in this case Gothic Instruments) or the vending distributor controls this process with Continuata.

Paj
8^)


----------



## ZTime (Feb 17, 2022)

Roger Newton said:


> She was the owner if I remember correctly.
> 
> There were all these boxes of sample libraries in the room on the left. It was like walking into a toy shop for the first time.


yes, yes indeed... like a modern jukebox! I remembered thinking, how much of those 650 Mb optical discs would I need if I was to sample the lot to my trusty Roland S770, which has 18 mb of ram, yes 18 megabytes that is  ... it would have costed me a fortune!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Feb 17, 2022)

Paj said:


> If Cinesamples is still using Continuata Connect/Conduct, all you may have to do is re-enter your original download serial and opt for re-installation. In effect, the most recent Dronar Guitarscapes update from Time+Space worked that way. I'm not sure whether the developer (in this case Gothic Instruments) or the vending distributor controls this process with Continuata.
> 
> Paj
> 8^)


The new Piano in Blue is a Kontakt Player library, so you'd need to get it through NI's system, rather than using the same Continuata code.

As for holding on to receipts, yes of course you should do that. But the value of a receipt is primarily that there's a unique order number, which T+S can use to verify the transaction in their database. You have an order number, they match it to an entry in their database.

If you show the receipt to NI or Cinesamples, it just looks like something that is receipt-ish, and has a code that they can't verify. Hopefully you can sort it out with customer service with some emails.

But my main point is that some folks were saying what's the big deal, just backup your libraries. Well, it's more complicated than that.


----------



## PrimeEagle (Feb 17, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> That might work in some cases but definitely not with evry develloper. For me the problem is with buying from them stuff over more then a decade I dont even know exactly WHAT I bought from them when. I have lots of devellopers where I bought stuff from different shops. So for example something like Ethera or Dronar from timespace, bestservice, zero-g......
> 
> So without being able to at least login into my account (thats what accounts are for: keep track of your order history) and get a list of my orders it would be extremly difficult to get that stuff together, not to talk about downloading at least the actual state.
> 
> I really hope that at least this will be possible or they would sent of the orders as an email to all customers.


You should have all the orders in your emails, assuming you kept those.


----------



## Paj (Feb 17, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> The new Piano in Blue is a Kontakt Player library, so you'd need to get it through NI's system, rather than using the same Continuata code.
> 
> As for holding on to receipts, yes of course you should do that. But the value of a receipt is primarily that there's a unique order number, which T+S can use to verify the transaction in their database. You have an order number, they match it to an entry in their database.
> 
> ...


Time+Space sent separate serial number Continuata emails but, just in case you don't have them anymore, you can:

(1) go to continuata.com
(2) create/login to your account
(3) If the email(s) that you used to purchase the libraries was not one of the three create/login options, use the Add eMail line to add the desired email addresses
(4) Respond to the verification emails sent to the added addresses
(5) Refresh/wait for the registered libraries to appear in the Continuata account "My Libraries" page.
(6) Vendor, Library name & info, Download serial, Links to immediately download with Continuata Conduct, and Manual links.

You can filter the display by vendor if you have a turdload of products. I'm still using Continuata Connect because of the 'Save Downloaded Files' option; the last time I used Conduct that option wasn't available.

Paj
8^)


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## uselessmind (Feb 17, 2022)

This is great news for me, i got some T+S giftcards for christmas.
Now i dont have to decide what to spend them on.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Feb 17, 2022)

Paj said:


> Time+Space sent separate serial number Continuata emails but, just in case you don't have them anymore, you can:
> 
> (1) go to continuata.com
> (2) create/login to your account
> ...


Okay. Let's say Cinesamples has a sale on their website for a bundle that includes three pianos. You happen to own one of those, which is Piano in Blue, which you bought from T+S last year, so you'd get 1/3 off.

Except when you go to check out on their website, Cinesamples wants you to buy Piano in Blue again. They're system doesn't see that you bought it from T+S. How would it? At the time you bought it, Cinesamples was using their old website and didn't even have an account login system.

Yes, you have a Continuata code, yes you have a receipt, yes you've backup up your library. And yet, you are in the Cinesamples webstore and there is no place to use any of those things, so you have a problem.

So you email support, and show screengrabs of receipts and your Continuata code. Cinesamples support sees: something that looks like a receipt that has an order number that they can't look up, and a Continuata code. What happens after that, I'm not sure. Maybe they can confirm the Continuata code? Maybe they just take your word?


----------



## KarlHeinz (Feb 17, 2022)

Paj said:


> Time+Space sent separate serial number Continuata emails but, just in case you don't have them anymore, you can:
> 
> (1) go to continuata.com
> (2) create/login to your account
> ...


This is great news . I will have to try again with conduct, sadly it was not working for me when I tried some time ago so I still use the old continuata which works. But this is definitely worth a try especially as I only using one emailadress so it should be getting at least all that stuff into one new place


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## rrichard63 (Feb 17, 2022)

Does anybody know whether Continuata's ownership structure is connected in any way to Time+Space / Zero-G?


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## Paj (Feb 17, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Okay. Let's say Cinesamples has a sale on their website for a bundle that includes three pianos. You happen to own one of those, which is Piano in Blue, which you bought from T+S last year, so you'd get 1/3 off.
> 
> Except when you go to check out on their website, Cinesamples wants you to buy Piano in Blue again. They're system doesn't see that you bought it from T+S. How would it? At the time you bought it, Cinesamples was using their old website and didn't even have an account login system.
> 
> ...


Respectfully, and with speculation aside, I can only help up to a point and then hope that the Time-Space blowout is minimal for all of us. Since you have your receipts, you should be able to cross-reference your Cinesamples account with the Continuata account to quickly find out what is and what is not registered with Cinesamples and then:



https://cinesamples.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500007562061-Products-Missing-From-Account



The Cinesamples libraries that I purchased from Time+Space did not appear in my Cinesamples account so I'm actually doing this now, just to be safer. I hope this helps.

Paj
8^)


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## kitekrazy (Feb 17, 2022)

Anyone remember audiomidi.com? I remember that was my go to back before libraries could be downloaded.


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## Hendrixon (Feb 17, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> So you email support, and show screengrabs of receipts and your Continuata code. Cinesamples support sees: something that looks like a receipt that has an order number that they can't look up, and a Continuata code. What happens after that, I'm not sure. Maybe they can confirm the Continuata code? Maybe they just take your word?


Cinesamples, or any vendor, should have a system of licensing that follows any copy they sell, be it a direct sell or thru a third party.
Otherwise third party sellers could make any number of sales they want without paying a dime to the vendors.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 17, 2022)

I'm very sad to hear this. They were one of the first non-US places I bought digital products from. Always were easy to work with. I never had to use customer service, so I can't say it was great. But the fact I never used it says a lot. This whole world situation has been very hard on everyone. I really hope someday they can come back.


----------



## bbrylow (Feb 17, 2022)

musicsoftwaredeals said:


> At the bottom of the Time & Space 2021 return:
> 
> "The company's immediate parent is ZeroTime Audio Ltd." (http://www.checkcompany.co.uk/company/10663520/ZEROTIME-AUDIO-LIMITED)
> 
> So maybe the "parent" company shut down Time & Space but are keeping other operations going. From their last return, it looks like they had debts of £550k (down from £650k in the previous year)


Holding company


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## Ben H (Feb 17, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> So you email support, and show screengrabs of receipts and your Continuata code. Cinesamples support sees: something that looks like a receipt that has an order number that they can't look up, and a Continuata code. What happens after that, I'm not sure. Maybe they can confirm the Continuata code? Maybe they just take your word?



I have done this multiple times with several different companies and never had it not accepted.

Maybe I just got lucky though.


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## nolotrippen (Feb 17, 2022)

kitekrazy said:


> Anyone remember audiomidi.com? I remember that was my go to back before libraries could be downloaded.


That goes back, what 300 years? I do remember.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Feb 17, 2022)

Ben H said:


> I have done this multiple times with several different companies and never had it not accepted.
> 
> Maybe I just got lucky though.


Good to hear. Looks like I'll have my sales sorted with all the third parties pretty quickly too. I just had to go through some old emails, and check my accounts with each vendor. So far the receipts seem to be okay, at least in my cases.


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## Fleer (Feb 17, 2022)

What about devs like BigFishAudio? Got several of their Kontakt Player libs through T+S.


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## Paj (Feb 17, 2022)

Fleer said:


> What about devs like BigFishAudio? Got several of their Kontakt Player libs through T+S.


If you downloaded with Continuata, they probably are in your Continuata account (BigFish or Time+Space)---otherwise, directly check your BigFishAudio account---and if they're Player libraries, it wouldn't hurt to check you NI account.

Paj
8^)


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## tcb (Feb 17, 2022)

Sad!
I seem to left some coins,have not use them yet


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 17, 2022)

Fleer said:


> What about devs like BigFishAudio? Got several of their Kontakt Player libs through T+S.


I am not sure as BigFishAudio is a reseller too, so that might make it more complicated if you bought something from TS where BigFishAudio is only the reseller (Vir2 for example, I remember that sometimes I got a redeem code that I have to redeem in my bigfishaudio account).

I still hope for getting at least one time on my account at ts or a list of all the orders, otherwise checking emails over more then a decade........


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## Kony (Feb 17, 2022)

I'm confused by all this talk of re-downloading - it's surely easier to just back everything up?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Feb 17, 2022)

Kony said:


> I'm confused by all this talk of re-downloading - it's surely easier to just back everything up?


I'm not sure if anyone is talking about re-downloading, at least not today.

EDIT: I guess KarlHeinz is.


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 17, 2022)

Kony said:


> I'm confused by all this talk of re-downloading - it's surely easier to just back everything up?


If you have backed up all your purchases over the last two decades, congratulations 

I have to admit I dont have especially when space is rare and things not often used at that time (what might be completely different some time later) seem to just occupy that disk space. Not to talk about updates and.....

I would simply need an overview of my purchases over that two decades to get an idea of what IS backed up, what I would need to download for backup what might be transfered to the account of the original develloper and what.........hope you get the background for asking


----------



## Mornats (Feb 17, 2022)

I thought I'd check out the Continuata site to see if my T+S purchases are there. I've never logged into it before but here's how it went:
1. Logged in via Google.
2. Added my email address (which isn't my Google account email)
3. Confirmed my email.
4. Saw a list of software I'd downloaded - see below for some T+S ones:






There's 31 libraries in total in there for me which sounds about right. Not all from T+S, a lot are from others e.g. Zero-G, Heavyocity, Embertone, Performance Samples etc.

I've also kept all of my downloads in a dedicated "music software" folder with the intention of deleting it if I needed space. Although now I'm gonna keep it all right there.


----------



## KarlHeinz (Feb 17, 2022)

Mornats said:


> I thought I'd check out the Continuata site to see if my T+S purchases are there. I've never logged into it before but here's how it went:
> 1. Logged in via Google.
> 2. Added my email address (which isn't my Google account email)
> 3. Confirmed my email.
> ...


O.k., have tried and now see why I never used conduct:

- does not work in firefox (you cant even open the website)

- when I try with chrome it strangely already have my name and emailadress but entering any WORKING code/serial dont work

- when trying to login/sign in I have the options google/facebook/twitter

- you might laugh BUT: I have simply NONE of it

Have sent a support request over the kontatk formula (at least that works) hope there will be any other WORKING way......


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## Zanshin (Feb 17, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> O.k., have tried and now see why I never used conduct:
> 
> - does not work in firefox (you cant even open the website)
> 
> ...


Make a throw away email on Gmail. Once you are able to login you register whatever email you used with T+S. It’s pretty easy all things considered.


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 17, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Make a throw away email on Gmail. Once you are able to login you register whatever email you used with T+S. It’s pretty easy all things considered.


Thanks , will do. At least I successfully registered an google account at work one time years ago for an online survey......

Sorry for being that social media dinosaur


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## Zanshin (Feb 17, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Thanks , will do. At least I successfully registered an google account at work one time years ago for an online survey......
> 
> Sorry for being that social media dinosaur


No worries, me too really. Gmail is pretty easy and useful though, even if it ends up not being your primary email. I have a FB account I never use. I don’t “get” twitter at all - I’d rather roll down my car window and yell than tweet


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## Kony (Feb 17, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> If you have backed up all your purchases over the last two decades, congratulations


Not sure what the time period has to do with anything. You could have two decades of libraries or two weeks, the result is the same as you'd have your libraries on drives - which can be backed up. 



KarlHeinz said:


> when space is rare


If people have money for sample libraries, they should also have money for drives which are relatively cheap these days.



KarlHeinz said:


> Not to talk about updates and.....


After updating whichever libraries, simply update the backup drives. Honestly, after reading your successive posts, it looks like you're choosing to make life difficult for yourself. Time is also money and I much rather spend a couple of hundred on an SSD than waste my time going through the motions of working out which serial numbers are valid with whichever sample library seller. Each to their own I suppose.


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## Kony (Feb 17, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> I would simply need an overview of my purchases over that two decades to get an idea of what IS backed up, what I would need to download for backup what might be transfered to the account of the original develloper and what.........hope you get the background for asking


Why not start from scratch, assume you haven't got a backup and then back everything up. You can then go through your previous backup drives and maybe overwrite them with the new backups?


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## David Kudell (Feb 17, 2022)

There’s an important reminder in all this. If you don’t have all of your sample libraries backed up you’re running a huge risk. I literally can’t imagine having to download libraries from a million websites if a drive crashed, it would take forever.

I have a 16TB hard drive and everything gets backed up to it daily using Carbon Copy Cloner. And I’m planning on making a copy of that and putting it off site in case of theft or fire!


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## marcuslstrm (Feb 17, 2022)

David Kudell said:


> There’s an important reminder in all this. If you don’t have all of your sample libraries backed up you’re running a huge risk. I literally can’t imagine having to download libraries from a million websites if a drive crashed, it would take forever.
> 
> I have a 16TB hard drive and everything gets backed up to it daily using Carbon Copy Cloner. And I’m planning on making a copy of that and putting it off site in case of theft or fire!


It's not a great backup if it's not off site.


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## Zanshin (Feb 17, 2022)

marcuslstrm said:


> It's not a great backup if it's not off site.


It had better be off planet these days.


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## Jaap (Feb 17, 2022)

In regards of the backups.
It's always good to have a solid backup, but even then it's important that you still have access to your purchases as sometimes there are occassions that you might to rely on it.
Almost to the date 9 years ago I lost everything in a fire and I had backups at that time, but that doesn't help in a fire unfortunately. For compositions and our works it's now of course easy to save everything to the cloud, but I don't think many of us upload all the terrabytes of libraries to the cloud as backup.

These kind of things are of course very rare, but these things happen and not only talking about fires, but also about forces of nature, theft, technical failure etc etc.


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## StefanoM (Feb 17, 2022)

marcuslstrm said:


> It's not a great backup if it's not off site.


Usually, I use the rule of 3

1) Backup: In Studio ( 1 or 2 HD of everything, Libraries, Projects )
2) Backup: Mobile DISK ( small portable disk, even 2 disks) always with me. Are really small ( smaller than an iPhone)
3) Backup: Cloud Backup ( here only the most important thing)


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## mussnig (Feb 18, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> Backup: Mobile DISK ( small portable disk, even 2 disks) always with me. Are really small ( smaller than an iPhone)


Would you mind sharing what exactly you are using for that? Because a 2,5 '' HDD would already be larger than an iPhone, so I assume you are using SD Cards or NVMEs?


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## Raphioli (Feb 18, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> It had better be off planet these days.


Remember to make a backup of the backup. AND a backup of THAT backup. And.....


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## Michel Simons (Feb 18, 2022)

mussnig said:


> Would you mind sharing what exactly you are using for that? Because a 2,5 '' HDD would already be larger than an iPhone, so I assume you are using SD Cards or NVMEs?


Maybe he has a really big iPhone.


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## StefanoM (Feb 18, 2022)

mussnig said:


> Would you mind sharing what exactly you are using for that? Because a 2,5 '' HDD would already be larger than an iPhone, so I assume you are using SD Cards or NVMEs?



I've 3 Disks similar to this one.

2 are 1 TB ( so 2 TB in total )

this one is 512 GB

So I've 2,5 TB of mobile backup

Of course, are SSD, and you know the SSD is not the best solution for the long term, but it's just an "additional backup" where each day I create a backup of What I did.

For example when I'm developing libraries, I backup also here, the files, the samples. etc

So when I'm out from my studio I've always a backup with me, just in case ( because are hours and hours of work)

Then for the long-term backup, I use 2 HDD and a Cloud Solution.

In this way, I've several types of "backups" in case of problems.

There are a lot of other small solutions, to have a mobile backup

These disks are also quite old, today there are better solutions.


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## Patryk Scelina (Feb 18, 2022)

David Kudell said:


> There’s an important reminder in all this. If you don’t have all of your sample libraries backed up you’re running a huge risk. I literally can’t imagine having to download libraries from a million websites if a drive crashed, it would take forever.
> 
> I have a 16TB hard drive and everything gets backed up to it daily using Carbon Copy Cloner. And I’m planning on making a copy of that and putting it off site in case of theft or fire!


I totally agree. Pehaps It's my old habit from the era before fast internet, but I always backup all downloaded stuff. Non of us should expect that all our digital goods will be online forever.


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## Delboy (Feb 18, 2022)

David Kudell said:


> There’s an important reminder in all this. If you don’t have all of your sample libraries backed up you’re running a huge risk. I literally can’t imagine having to download libraries from a million websites if a drive crashed, it would take forever.
> 
> I have a 16TB hard drive and everything gets backed up to it daily using Carbon Copy Cloner. And I’m planning on making a copy of that and putting it off site in case of theft or fire!


Hi David ... sorry to pester you but my question is .. Is Carbon Copy Cloner reliable and easy to use ?
and if I read correct he could make a backup of his 2x1tb and 1x4tb all onto 1 larger HDD drive if I get him another.
I may mention this to my son .. guess he would need the mac version.


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## Hendrixon (Feb 18, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> and you know the SSD is not the best solution for the long term


Why?


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## StefanoM (Feb 18, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> Why?





Because especially in older models, the continuous overwriting leads to a reduced life cycle. But we always talk of a lot of time in general.


----------



## soulofsound (Feb 18, 2022)

Delboy said:


> Hi David ... sorry to pester you but my question is .. Is Carbon Copy Cloner reliable and easy to use ?
> and if I read correct he could make a backup of his 2x1tb and 1x4tb all onto 1 larger HDD drive if I get him another.
> I may mention this to my son .. guess he would need the mac version.


CCC is a joy to use. I think there is only a mac version.


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## jbuhler (Feb 18, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> Because
> 
> 
> Because especially in older models, the continuous overwriting leads to a reduced life cycle. But we always talk a lot of time in general.


I understand this in theory, but in practice my SSDs, even older ones, have been much more reliable than spinning drives. Other flash memory except cards has been less stable.


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## StefanoM (Feb 18, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I understand this in theory, but in practice my SSDs, even older ones, have been much more reliable than spinning drives. Other flash memory except cards has been less stable.


Yeah,

indeed is in Theory.

But when I have so important Things... I go for HDD for a long-term backup.

And the SSD for daily backups.


----------



## BasariStudios (Feb 18, 2022)

Braveheart said:


> Where are you seeing this?


----------



## jbuhler (Feb 18, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> Yeah,
> 
> indeed is in Theory.
> 
> ...


I use HDD for backup as well but only because they are cheaper. I rely on rotation to cover failure, about a drive every other year or so. In my family we’ve yet to lose an SSD. That’s maybe 20 that are in routine use plus another half dozen retired small ones. We have about a dozen cards used for cameras and haven’t had a failure with those either. Flash sticks. Well, they fail all the time, and are way worse than HDD. I’ve lost a lot of HDDs, but I also have owned many more of them, and their failure rate has gone down over the years.


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## Hendrixon (Feb 18, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> Because especially in older models, the continuous overwriting leads to a reduced life cycle. But we always talk of a lot of time in general.


My second oldest ssd, a sumsung 850 evo of 256GB, is rated at 75TBW.
This translate to 41GB daily overwrite over a course of 5 years (5*365).
My newer solid states span from 125GB per day for 5 years to above 650GB.

Half those numbers and that's 20GB per day for 10 years (oldest nand) to above 300GB for the newer cells. by that time you should be able to buy a new drive 10x bigger 5x faster with (probably) better reliability... which you should anyway


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## Delboy (Feb 18, 2022)

soulofsound said:


> CCC is a joy to use. I think there is only a mac version.


Thks Soulo ... i will get this for my son .. just need to get his Uni email for the Edu discount .... cheers


----------



## dzilizzi (Feb 18, 2022)

I have lost an SSD. I think it was a SanDisk internal drive in an enclosure. I'd had it for a few years. It was, fortunately backed up. I was able to recover it enough to see what files were on it to make sure I did have a backup. It was not rewritten much as it only had samples on it. But it might have gotten dropped.

My biggest problem is organizing my backup drives. I realize I have way too much stuff and it is not well organized if I should have to find it again.


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## David Kudell (Feb 18, 2022)

Delboy said:


> Hi David ... sorry to pester you but my question is .. Is Carbon Copy Cloner reliable and easy to use ?
> and if I read correct he could make a backup of his 2x1tb and 1x4tb all onto 1 larger HDD drive if I get him another.
> I may mention this to my son .. guess he would need the mac version.


Yes, it's quite easy to use but has a lot of options. I back up both my sample SSDs to a single 16TB hard drive. I also back up my entire Mac internal drive to a backup SSD. Starting with Big Sur, Apple won't let you boot from that backup, but if things go south, you can reinstall MacOS and then restore everything from the CCC backup drive.


----------



## rnb_2 (Feb 18, 2022)

Delboy said:


> Hi David ... sorry to pester you but my question is .. Is Carbon Copy Cloner reliable and easy to use ?
> and if I read correct he could make a backup of his 2x1tb and 1x4tb all onto 1 larger HDD drive if I get him another.
> I may mention this to my son .. guess he would need the mac version.


Just to chime in as a long-time CCC user, backing up multiple drives to one backup drive is pretty straightforward. I usually do this by backing up the system drive to the root of the backup drive, then I create separate folders for the data on the other drives and tell CCC to back up to those folders. You can set up backup groups that automatically fire off when you plug in the backup drive, then automatically eject the drive after the last backup job.


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## Delboy (Feb 18, 2022)

Thks guys you have been a great help ... just need to look for a good price 10 or 12TB


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## Kony (Feb 18, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> My biggest problem is organizing my backup drives. I realize I have way too much stuff and it is not well organized if I should have to find it again.


I use a backup drive per sample drive to keep everything identical. If the sample drive fails, I'll be able to just change the drive letter of the backup drive and keep going without having to relocate everything in Kontakt.


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## Hendrixon (Feb 18, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> I have lost an SSD... But it might have gotten dropped.


Might?  
Yea issue its probably the controller or interface, not the nand re-writes.


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## kevinh (Feb 18, 2022)

I used to use cloud base backups until I had to restore a 2GB file and took three days to download. I have very fast internet and upload was never an issue but the download was extremely painful. If you use cloud backup I suggest you test restoring a large file before you are in a pinch to make sure it’s what you expect. Can’t imagine trying to restore a 200GB or even 700GB library like Hollywood Opus.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 18, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> Might?
> Yea issue its probably the controller or interface, not the nand re-writes.


Well, I really try not to drop them. And the enclosures all look the same, so not sure which one got dropped. Since it was the only one to stop working, I am assuming that was the lucky drive


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## dzilizzi (Feb 18, 2022)

Kony said:


> I use a backup drive per sample drive to keep everything identical. If the sample drive fails, I'll be able to just change the drive letter of the backup drive and keep going without having to relocate everything in Kontakt.


My backup drives are HDD's. The majority of my sample drives are 1 TB SSDs. But - the last time I did a backup, I did start putting folders with the SSD drives names (I should add the Drive letters though). Everything on the drive goes into the folder. It does help


----------



## IFM (Feb 18, 2022)

I'm using a program called QRecall for all my Macs storing on a set of rotating drives (one set offsite). It does use its own file type but it is very robust and can self-repair. I like it better than Carbon Copy Cloner for a number of reasons. Support is great as well.


----------



## Kony (Feb 18, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> My backup drives are HDD's. The majority of my sample drives are 1 TB SSDs. But - the last time I did a backup, I did start putting folders with the SSD drives names (I should add the Drive letters though). Everything on the drive goes into the folder. It does help


Yes, it helps to keep things the same - sorry if I wasn't clear. I have like-for-like 1TB SSDs and I manually copy all folders from one drive to the other - so the folder structure is identical. Regular backups are just working folders as I haven't needed to update the sample drives that much.


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## marcuslstrm (Feb 19, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> It had better be off planet these days.


I'm still waiting for an exoplanet cloud service!


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## thereus (Feb 19, 2022)

Fidelity said:


> I'm sorry that T+S had to shut down, but the way they did it so suddenly without warning is sketchy. What they've done to companies like BelaDMedia should be criminal, though I know nothing about legal stuff and doubt it is :/


Nobody wants their business to fail. We should all treat them with a level of compassion at this time. They will be going through hell.


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## Leslie Fuller (Feb 19, 2022)

Wow, really a shock about Time+Space’s demise! I bought loads of sample cds from them years ago. Like many, I had money there waiting to be used, but think it was only £10-£15. My recent purchases were all Ethera’s, and I know I’ve backed up the last two. Not sure if I backed up Ethera Gold 2.5 though.


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## iMovieShout (Mar 14, 2022)

Ok this is disappointing. Time & Space is still down today.
Does anyone know how to download past purchases / sample libraries / plugins etc from them?


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## davidson (Mar 14, 2022)

jpb007.uk said:


> Ok this is disappointing. Time & Space is still down today.
> Does anyone know how to download past purchases / sample libraries / plugins etc from them?


Nope, still waiting. I'm pretty sure I have everything I need, but I'd still like to look through my past purchases with them to make sure because I bought a *lot* from there.


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## iMovieShout (Mar 14, 2022)

davidson said:


> Nope, still waiting. I'm pretty sure I have everything I need, but I'd still like to look through my past purchases with them to make sure because I bought a *lot* from there.


Yes, same here.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 14, 2022)

jpb007.uk said:


> Ok this is disappointing. Time & Space is still down today.
> Does anyone know how to download past purchases / sample libraries / plugins etc from them?


They said on their Facebook page that they would look into providing access to past transactions. See posts #76 and #103 above. But that was on February 16 -- 26 days ago. I would say it's not looking good. There has still been no email announcement to their customers.


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## iMovieShout (Mar 14, 2022)

Checking on LinkedIN, I see that John McKie's (aka Alex John McKie) profile no longer seems to exist !!


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## Paj (Mar 14, 2022)

jpb007.uk said:


> Ok this is disappointing. Time & Space is still down today.
> Does anyone know how to download past purchases / sample libraries / plugins etc from them?


I have some posts from February 17th on page 5 of this thread that might get you started on the road to recovery. Good luck.

Paj
8^)


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## StefanoM (Mar 14, 2022)

Leslie Fuller said:


> Wow, really a shock about Time+Space’s demise! I bought loads of sample cds from them years ago. Like many, I had money there waiting to be used, but think it was only £10-£15. My recent purchases were all Ethera’s, and I know I’ve backed up the last two. Not sure if I backed up Ethera Gold 2.5 though.




Don't worry ( Zero-G can Help you I Think)

And in any case:

If you need Ethera Gold 2.5 I'm Here.


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## ThisFellowPlayingTheCello (Mar 14, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> Don't worry ( Zero-G can Help you I Think)


That's funny, I just DM'ed Leslie to tell her the same.
Can confirm that Zero G was able to provide me with a download link after providing them with proof of purchase.
Wasn't sure if it was their "standard practice", so didn't want to post it publicly
Great customer service


----------



## Leslie Fuller (Mar 14, 2022)

ThisFellowPlayingTheCello said:


> That's funny, I just DM'ed Leslie to tell her the same.
> Can confirm that Zero G was able to provide me with a download link after providing them with proof of purchase.
> Wasn't sure if it was their "standard practice", so didn't want to post it publicly
> Great customer service


BTW, I’m a him, not a her.


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## ThisFellowPlayingTheCello (Mar 14, 2022)

Leslie Fuller said:


> BTW, I’m a him, not a her.


Oh i'm sorry  I think I've only encountered females with that name 
So it's like Kim (almost only guys named that where i'm from)
It can get a bit confusing haha


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## Leslie Fuller (Mar 14, 2022)

ThisFellowPlayingTheCello said:


> Oh i'm sorry  I think I've only encountered females with that name
> So it's like Kim (almost only guys named that where i'm from)
> It can get a bit confusing haha


Here in the U.K., it is normally Lesley (female) and Leslie (male). Think it’s not a popular name anymore. My sister thought I should be a “David”, but Mum insisted on Leslie!


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## Fleer (Mar 14, 2022)

Could be a Hammond thing


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Mar 14, 2022)

I've been summoned it seems!


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## Roger Newton (Mar 14, 2022)

Leslie Fuller said:


> Here in the U.K., it is normally Lesley (female) and Leslie (male). Think it’s not a popular name anymore. My sister thought I should be a “David”, but Mum insisted on Leslie!


Mums ay.


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## Zak Rahman (Mar 14, 2022)

Just a random report, but I tried to use my continuata codes from my email to grab a Gothic library today (14/03/2022), and I wasn't successful.

So for people without backups, it seems like it's a case of waiting and hoping the best.

Perhaps this is a prudent reminder to download and create backups of the libraries that you depend on and will definitely need from other distributors. I know I have a fair few from PluginBoutique.


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## Fleer (Mar 14, 2022)

Zak Rahman said:


> Just a random report, but I tried to use my continuata codes from my email to grab a Gothic library today (14/03/2022), and I wasn't successful.
> 
> So for people without backups, it seems like it's a case of waiting and hoping the best.
> 
> Perhaps this is a prudent reminder to download and create backups of the libraries that you depend on and will definitely need from other distributors. I know I have a fair few from PluginBoutique.


If it was a Dronar library, maybe check with Sonora Cinematic. They’re selling them now.


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## iMovieShout (Mar 14, 2022)

Fleer said:


> If it was a Dronar library, maybe check with Sonora Cinematic. They’re selling them now.


Also ADSR sells Dronar.


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## Zak Rahman (Mar 14, 2022)

Fleer said:


> If it was a Dronar library, maybe check with Sonora Cinematic. They’re selling them now.


Yeah, I actually picked up the current deal from Audioplugindeals and it routed me through to Sonora Cinematic. They use this new Pulse thing which seems very fancy. It works though, so no complaints.

I was fortunate enough to discover that I actually did have the download on my old rig since posting my first post, so I'm all up to date concerning Dronar. So it's still unknown whether Sonora Cinematic would honour an agreement made between someone and Time+Space...

I sent them an email with this hypothetical. If I hear anything back I will report it here.

But yeah, I feel fortunate I backed up my downloads. Events like this aside, it can save a ton of time too.


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## paulmatthew (Mar 14, 2022)

Zak Rahman said:


> Just a random report, but I tried to use my continuata codes from my email to grab a Gothic library today (14/03/2022), and I wasn't successful.
> 
> So for people without backups, it seems like it's a case of waiting and hoping the best.
> 
> Perhaps this is a prudent reminder to download and create backups of the libraries that you depend on and will definitely need from other distributors. I know I have a fair few from PluginBoutique.


Some developers give you time limits on continuata downloads. Other you can download any time you’d like.


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## Zak Rahman (Mar 14, 2022)

Well, I got a reply from them rather quickly. It is indeed possible:



> Hi Zak,
> Yes, we are doing this for several customers.
> Please provide Emma in CC with your proof of purchase and she'll get you sorted with a serial number for Pulse downloader.
> Best,
> ...



So if you're in a bind with Gothic Dronar, then get in contact with the Sonora Cinematic team!


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## Fleer (Mar 14, 2022)

Thanks!
Could we have Emma's email?


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## Zak Rahman (Mar 14, 2022)

Fleer said:


> Thanks!
> Could we have Emma's email?


It seems like it is Emma's own personal gmail email address, so I feel a bit reticent about just sticking that on the internet.

Maybe I'm being old fashioned though. I'll double check.


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## AMas (Mar 14, 2022)

Hi all, as I mentioned in the other thread, please get in touch with us via support here and we'll get you sorted  : https://sonoracinematic.com/pages/contact


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## KarlHeinz (Mar 14, 2022)

AMas said:


> Hi all, as I mentioned in the other thread, please get in touch with us via support here and we'll get you sorted  : https://sonoracinematic.com/pages/contact


Works great , absolutely appreciated , got my Dronar stuff as far as I could recognize from emails now with new pulse serials. Thanks again for this great support.


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## AMas (Mar 14, 2022)

A small clarification for everybody! At the moment we are only selling the Dronar series and do not distribute Sculptor so we can't unfortunately provide support for the Sculptor series!
Thanks.


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## Fleer (Mar 14, 2022)

AMas said:


> A small clarification for everybody! At the moment we are only selling the Dronar series and do not distribute Sculptor so we can't unfortunately provide support for the Sculptor series!
> Thanks.


Thanks Alessandro. And thanks for replying so swiftly to my support request. Will wait until you sell Sculptor


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## R10k (Mar 16, 2022)

Wow, just saw this thread (accidentally, looking for something else). Thankfully I only have things with ProjectSam and Makemusic from Time + Space so no backups needed. But, wow. What a shock. I really enjoyed buying from them.


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## mussnig (Mar 16, 2022)

R10k said:


> Wow, just saw this thread (accidentally, looking for something else). Thankfully I only have things with ProjectSam and Makemusic from Time + Space so no backups needed. But, wow. What a shock. I really enjoyed buying from them.


FYI: Projectsam just retired a couple of libs and on their webpage they wrote that you can only download them until mid September.


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## R10k (Mar 16, 2022)

mussnig said:


> FYI: Projectsam just retired a couple of libs and on their webpage they wrote that you can only download them until mid September.


I was aware that some have been discontinued (Truestrike 2 is what I have) but the downloads are limited? I assume from their website? Mine have come through NI...

EDIT: Oh I see. It's listed there but was downloaded directly. Thanks for the heads up about that! I actually have to send some feedback to ProjectSam for the lack of notice about this.


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Mar 19, 2022)

I was going through some crap in my room today and found this old thing. It’s a big shame some of these libraries will never be buyable again. They might sound terrible now, but I did always want to know what Hans Zimmer Guitars sounded like


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## berto (Mar 19, 2022)

Sorry i did not follow entirely this post threads but is T+S really gone?
as what i see is they are coming back... maybe changed totally the website...


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Mar 19, 2022)

berto said:


> Sorry i did not follow entirely this post threads but is T+S really gone?
> as what i see is they are coming back... maybe changed totally the website...


They are really gone, that is just a front on their website. They have properly announced they are leaving and did say their website is not in maintenance like suggested. Considering they laid everyone off iirc, they probably didn’t have any to create a proper landing page


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## davidson (Mar 19, 2022)

berto said:


> Sorry i did not follow entirely this post threads but is T+S really gone?
> as what i see is they are coming back... maybe changed totally the website...


Thats just a shopify placeholder. T+S have properly gone, and without supplying the account areas they said they'd give us access to :(


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## Mornats (Mar 19, 2022)

berto said:


> Sorry i did not follow entirely this post threads but is T+S really gone?
> as what i see is they are coming back... maybe changed totally the website...


When I first started this thread I originally asked if anyone knew why the website had been down for a few days. I was going to purchase something when I got what you see in that screenshot. By page 4 of this thread we'd found out that they had ceased trading. As others have said, that message has stayed up and looks like a holding page from their host. My guess was they put that placeholder in place as the quickest way to take the site offline.


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## dunamisstudio (Mar 19, 2022)

GeorgeThatMusicGuy said:


> I was going through some crap in my room today and found this old thing. It’s a big shame some of these libraries will never be buyable again. They might sound terrible now, but I did always want to know what Hans Zimmer Guitars sounded like











Hans Zimmer Guitars Vol. 1


For the first time, Oscar & Grammy award winning film composer Hans Zimmer releases sounds from his private sample library. These powerful guitar textures are more detailed & expressive than any other Guitar library, with patches containing up to 12-way velocity switching, allowing for such...




www.ilio.com












Hans Zimmer Guitars Vol. 2


The world's best-selling guitar multi-sample library has evolved into a brand new volume of expressive instruments created for Hans Zimmer by veteran sound designer Bob Daspit. Many of the new instruments feature velocity switching up and down slides, in addition to a new method for controlling...




www.ilio.com






Spectrasonics - Legacy Products



You can still get some special order. Plus I think some samples wound up in Omnisphere.


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## BasariStudios (Mar 19, 2022)

Fidelity said:


> I'm sorry that T+S had to shut down, but the way they did it so suddenly without warning is sketchy. What they've done to companies like BelaDMedia should be criminal, though I know nothing about legal stuff and doubt it is :/


What did they do?


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## rrichard63 (Mar 19, 2022)

BasariStudios said:


> What did they do?


EDIT: I inadvertently left out "not" in the last phrase, which incorrectly said "I would call it criminal". It's fixed now.

A few of the developers whose products they carried don't have a lot of other retail outlets. Bela D Media is an example, although they at least have their own website. Also, T+S probably owed money to some developers that it won't be able to pay them. It's really an unfortunate situation for those developers. But because there's nothing much T+S could have done for them (they didn't plan their own collapse in advance) I would not call it "criminal".


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## BasariStudios (Mar 19, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> A few of the developers whose products they carried don't have a lot of other retail outlets. Bela D Media is an example, although they at least have their own website. Also, T+S probably owed money to some developers that it won't be able to pay them. It's really an unfortunate situation for those developers. But because there's nothing much T+S could have done for them (they didn't plan their own collapse in advance) I would call it "criminal".


That is sad. I thought BDM did not exist anymore but just checked them out again. They have been around for a while.


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## iMovieShout (Mar 21, 2022)

T&M even had advertisements in the latest industry magazines such as Sound on Sound. 

I'm guessing they were hoping that whatever crisis occurred would eventually be overcome and T&M would carry on trading. Given that Companies House now has the company listing labelled as 'in liquidation' and that one of the founder's LinkedIN profiles has suddenly vanished, that there may have been a death in the family that has caused the collapse of the company.


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## Kony (Mar 21, 2022)

Or could be these were advertising slots booked in advance?


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Jun 3, 2022)

UPDATE!!! Their website now redirects to gear4music! https://timespace.com/


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## Flyo (Jun 3, 2022)

Time to know if we could get our prior purchases reward points also…


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## Flyo (Jun 3, 2022)

Flyo said:


> Time to know if we could get our prior purchases reward points also…


🫠


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## rrichard63 (Jun 3, 2022)

Flyo said:


> Time to know if we could get our prior purchases reward points also…


Honoring old T&S rewards points is asking an awful lot. But access to our downloads and serial numbers is reasonable. I've written to gear4music about this and will report back here.


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## R10k (Jun 3, 2022)

They should’ve gone with spacetime.com… people might not have noticed the url change 😋


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## Fleer (Jun 3, 2022)

Or continuum.com


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## KarlHeinz (Jun 4, 2022)

Has anyone tried if the timespace login works ? Or do you need a new account ?


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## R10k (Jun 4, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Has anyone tried if the timespace login works ? Or do you need a new account ?


Mine didn't work, so I assume so, yes.


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## Paj (Jun 4, 2022)

I'm guessing redirection, not reincarnation or resurrection. The URL has commercial value to another vendor. So does the T-S mailing/customer list. Don't hate da playa, hate the game.

Paj
8^)


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## KarlHeinz (Jun 4, 2022)

Paj said:


> I'm guessing redirection, not reincarnation or resurrection. The URL has commercial value to another vendor. So does the T-S mailing/customer list. Don't hate da playa, hate the game.
> 
> Paj
> 8^)




Wonder if that is the final end to all options to get at least the order list then.....


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## Paj (Jun 4, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Wonder if that is the final end to all options to get at least the order list then.....


That would be nice. Even if you're meticulous with your receipts, it would be a great time saver. One would think it might be another way to garner customers and site interest but, to me, marketing really is a blur of magic and Machiavelli. Quantum entanglement seems to make more sense.

Paj
8^)


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jun 4, 2022)

Paj said:


> I'm guessing redirection, not reincarnation or resurrection. The URL has commercial value to another vendor. So does the T-S mailing/customer list. Don't hate da playa, hate the game.
> 
> Paj
> 8^)


I agree. I don't see any sign that gear4music has anything to do with time+space. T+S has been very clear that they have closed down.

In the unlikely case that they were back with a new URL, it seems likely they would say something about it.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 4, 2022)

The question is, is gear4music a legit company? I have never heard of them before this. I worry that people get the redirect and think it is a litt company - which it could be. I'm guessing they bought the URL?


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## Phillip Dixon (Jun 4, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Honoring old T&S rewards points is asking an awful lot. But access to our downloads and serial numbers is reasonable. I've written to gear4music about this and will report back here.





dzilizzi said:


> The question is, is gear4music a legit company? I have never heard of them before this. I worry that people get the redirect and think it is a litt company - which it could be. I'm guessing they bought the URL?


Totally legit. Been using them in UK for years


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## dzilizzi (Jun 4, 2022)

Phillip Dixon said:


> Totally legit. Been using them in UK for years


That's probably why I haven't heard of them.


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## Mornats (Jun 4, 2022)

Yeah they're legit although they've got a reputation for packing things so badly that a lot of stuff turns up damaged.


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## Braveheart (Jun 4, 2022)

Mornats said:


> Yeah they're legit although they've got a reputation for packing things so badly that a lot of stuff turns up damaged.


Heavyocity used some of these samples for their Damage line of products


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## tc9000 (Jun 4, 2022)

I've bought stuff from gear4music before and it turned up and in good order - they are definately legit.


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Jun 5, 2022)

Yes I've never had packaging issues from them either


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## Michael Antrum (Jun 5, 2022)

tc9000 said:


> I've bought stuff from gear4music before and it turned up and in good order - they are definately legit.


They have their main office and warehousing not far from me in York. They are one of the biggest in the UK and have been around for a long time. If you are ever in York they have an epic showroom absolutely rammed full of stuff.


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## devonmyles (Jun 5, 2022)

I've used 'Gear4Music' for a very long time and haven't had any packing issues.


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## Peter Satera (Jun 5, 2022)

The clarification on the closure has been very disappointing. No correspondence in email to detail Access to previous purchases and licences to need to come here for updates. We have no idea what happened to our historical data, has it been passed on? Will we get access via gear4music? What is the affiliation between the two since we're bring redirected. It's just radio silence...


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## Braveheart (Jun 5, 2022)

Peter Satera said:


> The clarification on the closure has been very disappointing. No correspondence in email to detail Access to previous purchases and licences to need to come here for updates. We have no idea what happened to our historical data, has it been passed on? Will we get access via gear4music? What is the affiliation between the two since we're bring redirected. It's just radio silence...


If there’s something that will be passed over to them, I guess they will wait for everything to be ready before making any announcements. Otherwise, there will be more questions than answers in the meantime.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 5, 2022)

Problem is, once you quit paying for your URL/name, anyone can buy it. They may have just bought the URL. In which case, they have nothing as far as documents and history.


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## Michael Antrum (Jun 5, 2022)

It might make sense for gear4music to buy the assets of Time and Space. G4M are primarily in the hardware and physical product end of the music industry. They don't seem to have much a presence or reputation for the software side. It could make a lot of sense for them if they are looking to expand their operations somewhat, but there's probably a fair mess at Time Space to tidy up before they announce anything...

Time will tell...


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## Mornats (Jun 5, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> Problem is, once you quit paying for your URL/name, anyone can buy it. They may have just bought the URL. In which case, they have nothing as far as documents and history.


If you just stop paying for it there's quite a wait before it will become available again. Not sure how long it is but last I had to deal with this (which was many years ago) it was more than a few months. They could of course have brought it from the administrators and done a transfer which would be very quick.


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## musicsoftwaredeals (Jun 5, 2022)

Time&Space went bankrupt, so most likely their assets (hardware, software, domains, IP etc.) were all sold to the highest bidder in order to pay for any creditors who are still owed money. Most likely the domain name had some value so was sold to Gear4music (perhaps with some hardware if they had any).

I'd say its unlikely that there is any chance your Time&Space account/info/points will be migrated - they just bought the domain to get the decent traffic it will bring them


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## Iondot (Jun 5, 2022)

Mornats said:


> If you just stop paying for it there's quite a wait before it will become available again. Not sure how long it is but last I had to deal with this (which was many years ago) it was more than a few months. They could of course have brought it from the administrators and done a transfer which would be very quick.


There isn't a set wait time for a domain (URL) to become available. Domains are registered in increments of a year. So if a company pays to register a domain for 5 years, if they don't renew, it becomes available the day that 5 year registration comes up. So if you stop paying the day before renewal is due, there's no wait. In the case where you waited for "more than a few months" it's likely the registration was for a year, and you had to wait for the registration to expire.

I'll also note that there are many predatory services out there that wait for domains to expire and snap them up to attempt to capitalize on what they hope they can resell at a profit. These companies may make you wait.


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## rrichard63 (Jun 8, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Honoring old T&S rewards points is asking an awful lot. But access to our downloads and serial numbers is reasonable. I've written to gear4music about this and will report back here.


Gear4music has now had three week days to respond. Since I haven't heard from them, I assume that there's no good news.


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