# Pretty LASS! New! The Hollywood Sound Timbral Impulses: LASS Edition. Demos by Hannes Frischat and M



## ErnestCholakis (Dec 27, 2013)

*New Product Release*

*The Hollywood Sound Timbral Impulse: LASS Edition*

Timbral Impulses are designed specifically to sweeten and enhance warmth for all of the LA Scoring String (LASS) libraries. This new technology creates higher precision using the power of impulse filters (as opposed to Equalizer and Parametric EQs) to shape and add subtle nuances to the string tones.

The Hollywood Sound IR Series: LASS Edition transforms LASS into 6 different aesthetically pleasing string section sound categories; Deep Body, Full Body, Light Body, Natural, Half Sordino and Full Sordino), 3 Perspectives to help with spatial placement (Stage Position, Near The Stage, and Far From Stage. There are two matching sets in both 48KHz and 44.1KHz. 

For more information and demos by Hannes Frischat and Mike Verta go to

http://www.numericalsound.com/hollywood_sound_ti_lass.html







Ernest Cholakis
Numerical Sound
www.numericalsound.com


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## mverta (Dec 27, 2013)

Thanks for posting these, Ernest. I'm still struck by the improvements in tonality and sectional balance provided by the IR's compared to my dry tracks. I'm especially partial to the Natural Stage Perspective.

_Mike


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## artinro (Dec 27, 2013)

Sounds great. Nice demo (and composition) Mike! How have you found these IRs when compared with the built in stage an color in LASS 2.5? 

Very nice work.


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## gsilbers (Dec 27, 2013)

just a thought - but i would just leave only mike vertas demos up.


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## mverta (Dec 27, 2013)

artinro @ Fri Dec 27 said:


> Sounds great. Nice demo (and composition) Milke! How have you found these IRs when compared with the built in stage an color in LASS 2.5?
> 
> Very nice work.



Thank you!

I have 2.0; haven't yet upgraded to 2.5, but I noticed how vastly different my "out of the box" sounds were compared to the 2.5's. They sound like entirely different products, to me. That said, these IR's attained a better, more natural version of the EQ I've basically been using on them, which was definitely welcome!

_Mike


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 27, 2013)

gsilbers @ Fri Dec 27 said:


> just a thought - but i would just leave only mike vertas demos up.



Hannes Frischat's _Lara_ demonstrates a type of vertical harmonic writing you don't hear as often today. First, _Lara_ shows that LASS can pull off this writing style and second, the new LASS TI's really bring out the sound.


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## Casiquire (Dec 27, 2013)

The "Deep Body Far Perspective" starts to veer more toward Hollywood Strings in sound. Really great in my opinion. It's great to be reminded of how versatile LASS is.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 28, 2013)

Definitely interested in this. In the fullness of time I'd love to hear, say, Mike's piece but with one or two of the most popular Stage and Color TIs as a comparison. I think for many of us LASS 2 owners, that's the most useful comparison to make - I appreciate that you apply these differently to the built in Stage and Color, but in practice I guess its like having some different colours to add to your palette (?)


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 28, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 28 said:


> Definitely interested in this. In the fullness of time I'd love to hear, say, Mike's piece but with one or two of the most popular Stage and Color TIs as a comparison. I think for many of us LASS 2 owners, that's the most useful comparison to make - I appreciate that you apply these differently to the built in Stage and Color, but in practice I guess its like having some different colours to add to your palette (?)



Hey Guy!

I'm sorry but I can't quite agree with you on this and here's why.

The design consideration was for LASS out of the box which takes in all purchasers over the years including those who never updated, LASS Light, and those who did update. 

So at whatever point of purchase someone is, they can use these new TIs. 

You can use these on Stage and Color, as the Hannes Frischat demo Lara ably shows.

But during beta testing, we only tested on the original Lass out of the box sound, never once on Stage and Color since S&C apply their own proprietary impulses to achieve those sounds.

So in your situation, you would end up with Lass original, stage and color, plus THS: LASS Edition TIs which give you amazing flexibility in designing your own string sound. 

Keep in mind these TIs work with the Lass components (C, B, A) plus First Chairs individually and in combination. So what you're getting for the price, especially with the Dollar at new lows, really makes this a super bargain.


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## fantasiom (Dec 28, 2013)

Sounds great! But site says it doesn't work with Altiverb 7...are their plans to make it work with Altiverb 7?


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 28, 2013)

fantasiom @ Sat Dec 28 said:


> Sounds great! But site says it doesn't work with Altiverb 7...are their plans to make it work with Altiverb 7?



Ask Ernest.


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## Steve Steele (Dec 28, 2013)

ErnestCholakis @ Fri Dec 27 said:


> *New Product Release*
> 
> *The Hollywood Sound Timbral Impulse: LASS Edition*
> 
> ...



Ernest, everyone..

I've been looking at your website for a long time, and I think I might be really interested now in trying out one or some of your products. I've always liked using IRs as a way of "eq'ing" a sound. It can be very natural if used right.

I have a question. I read the manual. Not clear on something. Would I load a Timbral Impulse first for each instrument (solo or group) first (either on the channel or buss), then an ER (perhaps on a buss for all strings), then buss that to a reverb? Is that the right order?

It would be nice to hear a version with a mix of all three mic positions, either as consecutive inserts or as separate busses. Anyone have an example of that? Is that overkill? Does it get in the way of the reverb at all?

The demo of Crimson Lake with the DeepBody far perspective applied to the Violins 1 & 2, Violas, Cello and Double Basses sounds quite good. So does the demo of Crimson Lake including the natural stage perspective timbral impulses applied to the Violins 1 & 2, Violas, Cello and Double Basses., with an Early Reflection IR "121_ERa150ms_1s5_Bright_48K.wav" from The Hollywood Sound Impulse Response Collection.

To my ears the LightBody Far Perspective Timbral Impulses sounded best as they smeared the tone and darkened it too, giving LASS even more realism.

Is this the same company that made the IRs that came with LASS at one time, before Stage and Color was included?

Also, there is a convolution plug-in called MixIR2 which is a great parallel or series IR loader (for guitar speaker cabs) that I bet would work well with these IRs. MixIR2 also contains some Neve EQ presets that might be useful. Could be a very efficient way of using these IRs if your using all three perspectives.

http://redwirez.com/mixir2.jsp

Thanks!


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## mpalenik (Dec 28, 2013)

Is there some reason you couldn't just drop the impulses into Kontakt's built in convolution engine? The easiest thing to do seems to be to set up a separate send in Kontakt for the LASS instruments, add a convolution plugin, and put in the .wav of choice. Assuming you set the tail to the very end of the impulse and turn off the high pass and low pass filters, there's nothing that Altiverb could possibly be doing differently (other than possibly more CPU efficiently).


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## damstraversaz (Dec 28, 2013)

interesting. It could be useful to have a demo Impulse for testing this in real time. I must admit I will not pay 99.00 USD for impulses without testing at least one.


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## Markus Kohlprath (Dec 28, 2013)

THis looks really great. Does it make sense to use it when I already route my LASS through MIR?


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## Steve Steele (Dec 28, 2013)

Markus Kohlprath @ Sat Dec 28 said:


> THis looks really great. Does it make sense to use it when I already route my LASS through MIR?



I use MIR for LASS too. Are you entirely convinced by MIR? I have RP 1 and 2.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 28, 2013)

Hi Peter - what I mean is to compare the new TIs with, say, the BatMan TI (not to use one on top of the other!) I really like the LASS 2 TIs, so a comparison would be useful to me (and many others I'm sure). I agree it's a great option for non-LASS 2 owners, regardless


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## Steve Steele (Dec 28, 2013)

mpalenik - Not a bad idea. I suppose it's just a matter if you want to use load that many IRs. I'm not sure but I might load the ER on a buss and send all the strings there. It might be slightly more time consuming to use Kontakt's mixer inserts for the Timbral Impulses instead of a low CPU demanding convolution plugin (like the one that comes with your DAW). ProVerb (Digital Performer is very light on the CPU). However, if you load a FC instrument with A, B, and C in the same instance and route them to separate Kontakt outputs, each with their own Timbral Impulses that might be a good reason to load them into Kontakt. You could save that as a multi and never have to bother with it again, I guess.


damstraversaz - I tend to agree with you. I would really like to try one Timbral Impulse and one ER of my choice before I buy. Maybe if you email and ask? I may do the same myself. Other companies, like redwirez do that.


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## Steve Steele (Dec 28, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 28 said:


> I agree it's a great option for non-LASS 2 owners, regardless



Or users of LASS FC and LS only, like me. I don't have LASS full. LS 2.5 did come with some color presets, but nothing like the full Stage and Color. FC has none.


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## Markus Kohlprath (Dec 28, 2013)

I use MIR for LASS too. Are you entirely convinced by MIR? I have RP 1 and 2.[/quote]

I like MIR pretty much but prefer to ad additional algo reverb and turn the wet/dry button down a bit depending on the libraries. And I do not like Roompack 1 at all. Teldec and Sage Hall for me is great.

ad Guy- Would be great to compare with S+C just to see if there is an improvement. I mean it´s not that you have 100 bucks in the pocket just to find out S+C does the same.


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 28, 2013)

Hey Folks!

All great questions! Once Ernest finishes fulfilling orders he's coming over to answer your questions.


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## DynamicK (Dec 29, 2013)

*Re: New! The Hollywood Sound Timbral Impulses: LASS Edition.*

Ernest, how do these new Impulses differ from the ones you did previously, that are included with LASS? 
Also are these TRUE Stereo IRs?? Thanks


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## ErnestCholakis (Dec 29, 2013)

nightwatch @ Sat Dec 28 said:


> ErnestCholakis @ Fri Dec 27 said:
> 
> 
> > *New Product Release*
> ...



nightwatch

You would load a convolution plugin with a timbral impulse in each channel strip that has LASS on it. The dry level has to be muted (or -100dB) and the wet 100%. The output is then bussed to a reverb.

Enclosed is a screenshot of the setup. The reverb buss (last channel strip on right) the sent levels were 0db for V1,V2 and VA and -6db for VC and CB for the demo of Unforgettable. This reverb channel strip includes a convolution plugin (Vienna Suite) with an ER impulse set to 100% wet and dry muted. 

Below the mixer is the settings for the First Violins (channel strip 1) timbral impulse.
The convolution program Vienna Suite was used. Notice how the dry is muted and only the wet active. 

Ernest

[/url]


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## ErnestCholakis (Dec 29, 2013)

nightwatch @ Sat Dec 28 said:


> ErnestCholakis @ Fri Dec 27 said:
> 
> 
> > *New Product Release*
> ...



Yes

Ernest
Numerical Sound


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## ErnestCholakis (Dec 29, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 28 said:


> Hi Peter - what I mean is to compare the new TIs with, say, the BatMan TI (not to use one on top of the other!) I really like the LASS 2 TIs, so a comparison would be useful to me (and many others I'm sure). I agree it's a great option for non-LASS 2 owners, regardless



Comparing Stage and Color with The Hollywood Sound Ti's is really like comparing apples and oranges because they were each designed to do different things sonically. Stage and Color as the Audiobro describes it on their web site:

"Stage & Color feature (providing an easy way for you to have LASS sound like famous orchestral recordings and film scores)"

"Stage & Color – At the heart of Stage & Color is a collection of exclusive orchestral sound profiles (colors) inspired by famous movie scores and recordings. Now, at the push of a button, LASS can adopt the tonal characteristics of some of the most coveted scores and recordings."


The Hollywood Sound Ti's were *not* designed to match any film recording. The Hollywood Sound Ti's were primarily designed to simulate the sound of a string section from 3 distances perspectives. First the stage perspective which is about 3 feet back from the conductor, second the near perspective which is 15 feet back and finally the far perspective which is about 36 feet back. Note that all three perspectives include a vertical component which is the same for all - it is 10 feet in height.

Depending on the perspective chosen each one softens in various degrees the edge and bowing noise that one perceives when standing further back in a concert hall from the string section. 

Another design element was to gives consistency to the overall tone so that all the notes are balanced especially in the lowest register of each instrument so that no individual or group of notes standing out relative to other notes. You will notice this especially in the deep and full body timbral impulses.

One important advantage of The Hollywood Sound Timbral Impulse approach is that you can add any reverb size you require without having to add "too much" to improve the overall string sound. For fast textural string passages you can use scoring stage hall sizes (0.7 to 1.5 seconds) and still have warmth in the overall string tone. 

Ernest


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## Steelkat (Dec 29, 2013)

When I got the initial email announcement about these from Peter, being a LASS user since it first came out, my interest was piqued. I quickly "spot listened" to a few examples and thought to myself, "Gee, these do sound good but I'm not sure it's anything I haven't been able to achieve with Ernest's original LASS impulses and some judicial eq."

But further close listening has revealed to me the "spacial" aspect of these impulses. I can hear greater separation and depth amid the sections. I hate to use the term "3-D" but ok I just did  

I am guessing, given the fact that there are sets specifically designed to be applied to each of the 5 LASS sections individually (as opposed to one IR being applied to the whole enchilada), that maybe this allows for greater customization and manipulation of the spacial cue info (?). 

Anyhoo, this is great stuff here. I have always been a fan of the original LASS impulses, and it seems with these Ernest really raised the bar....

Why does so much cool stuff come out right around Christmas? :cry:


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## Steve Steele (Dec 29, 2013)

ErnestCholakis @ Sun Dec 29 said:


> nightwatch @ Sat Dec 28 said:
> 
> 
> > ErnestCholakis @ Fri Dec 27 said:
> ...


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 29, 2013)

ErnestCholakis @ Sun Dec 29 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Peter - what I mean is to compare the new TIs with, say, the BatMan TI (not to use one on top of the other!) I really like the LASS 2 TIs, so a comparison would be useful to me (and many others I'm sure). I agree it's a great option for non-LASS 2 owners, regardless
> ...



Thanks Ernest, and I do appreciate the difference in intent. Nevertheless, both are TIs which change the colour of the samples - I'd love to hear Mike's piece in particular using the built-in BatMan (or similar). Subjectively it sounds quite similar to me, hence why I'd love to A/B/C/D....


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 29, 2013)

nightwatch @ Sun Dec 29 said:


> I've studied the linkwitzlab website page which describes the microphone layout that the San Francisco Symphony uses for their video broadcasts. If you've ever heard one of those you'll know how wonderful the mixing is. I'm striving to get close to that sound.
> 
> It seems they use spot mics for sections, then they place mics that are similar to your near and far perspectives.
> 
> ...



Since I talked Ernest into this idea, I'll give you the non-scientific answer. The obvious: LASS is already recorded. So the idea behind putting the three perspectives together was to give LASS an extra technique to simulate the QLSO Platinum mic perspective.

For the audio science - I defer to Yoda. =o

In answer to your other question, the sound I'm building consists mostly of VSL and LASS. Similar to your approach, I defined my sound with four different ensemble recordings as benchmarks. Mine are the Berlin Phil via www.digitalconcerthall.com, the Tadlow Music recording in Prague of Quo Vadis, a live studio performance of Jerry Goldsmith's The Attack from the Blue Max, and finally, William Walton's The Princes in The Tower from Richard III.

I haven't yet tried this with LASS yet, but several of the perspectives do give me a sound similar to what I'm looking for. To line up with spatial placement, I'm using SPAT with the reverb OFF or VSS to get them to line up with the recording.


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## Steve Steele (Dec 29, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Sun Dec 29 said:


> nightwatch @ Sun Dec 29 said:
> 
> 
> > I've studied the linkwitzlab website page which describes the microphone layout that the San Francisco Symphony uses for their video broadcasts. If you've ever heard one of those you'll know how wonderful the mixing is. I'm striving to get close to that sound.
> ...



Very nice Peter - Digital Concert Hall is awesome. Here's the SF recording that I've been trying to get..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfczUgr1qu4

There's a lot of close mic'ing in the percussion mixed with some good section mic'ing in the brass and just the right amount of hall with the strings. They capture the pizz strings just right and the bass drum is thunderous! Just a brilliant mix. Everything is close or far at the right time. I'd really like to get some hands on experience setting up mics and rigs.

MIR isn't quite cutting it for me although it's not bad. So if you asked Ernest to make these Timbral Impulses for LASS then I owe you a big thank you! This is the kind of control I've been wanting over LASS. I've also looked at his VSL stuff. I assume you might use FORTI and/or SERTI?

Good stuff!


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 29, 2013)

I do use FORTI/SERTI and these are not F/S. F/S are ERs, Reverb Tails, etc. These, per Ernest, are filters on steroids designed specifically for LASS. Once applied, you then have the _option_ of adding an ER or Tail (as done in the demos on line). For this you could use Quantum Leap Spaces. 

Since LASS is pre-seated, I would start with finding the one TI that gets close to what you want, then, use a tool like Virtual Sound Stage to get the finishing position.

If you get this, you might start with the Positions that Hannes Frischat liked since Hannes is a violinist and knows!

Peter


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## ErnestCholakis (Dec 29, 2013)

> Thanks Ernest, and I do appreciate the difference in intent. Nevertheless, both are TIs which change the colour of the samples - I'd love to hear Mike's piece in particular using the built-in BatMan (or similar). Subjectively it sounds quite similar to me, hence why I'd love to A/B/C/D....



Guy 

I have the dry audio stems of Mike Verta's piece. Is it possible to have Kontakt process each audio track with Stage and Color Batman TI ? 

Ernest


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 29, 2013)

@NightWatch

I watched a portion of the video. Have you listened to the mockup of this done by Jay Bacal for VSL?

My opinion - this is a very tough piece with which to build your string sound. I would be more inclined to use Fairy Garden from Mother Goose Suite as a starting piece.


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## Steve Steele (Dec 29, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Sun Dec 29 said:


> I do use FORTI/SERTI and these are not F/S. F/S are ERs, Reverb Tails, etc. These, per Ernest, are filters on steroids designed specifically for LASS. Once applied, you then have the _option_ of adding an ER or Tail (as done in the demos on line). For this you could use Quantum Leap Spaces.
> 
> Peter



They're timbral impulses. Right. Yes, I know that. I only have LASS FC and LS, not the full version, so I either use MIR, or Aether, or Spaces/Valhalla, etc..


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## Steve Steele (Dec 29, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Mon Dec 30 said:


> @NightWatch
> 
> I watched a portion of the video. Have you listened to the mockup of this done by Jay Bacal for VSL?
> 
> My opinion - this is a very tough piece with which to build your string sound. I would be more inclined to use Fairy Garden from Mother Goose Suite as a starting piece.



Indeed. I have heard Jay Bacal's mock up. Quite amazing. I was only attempting the first bits of The Augers of Spring, and most of Spring Rounds to test my full orch template. I've been doing the same with The Planets (Mars and Saturn)

For strings only I'm currently working on..

La Martyre De Saint Sebastien - the La Passion movement - Debussy (Montreal Symphony Orchestra recording with Charles Dutoit conductor recording as reference)

and 

Bartok's Music for Strings Percussion and Celesta - Parts of the first movement

You're right though. The Fairy Garden would be a good solid piece for to work on for strings. 

Thanks for the advice Peter. Much appreciated.


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 29, 2013)

You're welcome. These are really advanced string pieces. Although people here laugh at the notion, starting with Tchaikovsky is also good because his string writing was so good and it's easier to benchmark with.

Opening of Beethoven 6th, second movt of Beethoven 7th.

LASS + Ernest + Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faune to push the divisi and what today we call jazz voicings.

Walton, Richard III, score still available, Princes in the Tower. Very difficult for sampled strings.

Copland, Red Pony, very opening. 

Williams, Hymn for the Fallen and Across The Stars.


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## Steve Steele (Dec 30, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Mon Dec 30 said:


> You're welcome. These are really advanced string pieces. Although people here laugh at the notion, starting with Tchaikovsky is also good because his string writing was so good and it's easier to benchmark with.
> 
> Opening of Beethoven 6th, second movt of Beethoven 7th.
> 
> ...



Man, you know your stuff. That's for sure. Tchaikovsky's string writing was very good! Beethoven's 6th is the perfect Beethoven piece for study. Copland and Williams too.

Actually I was reading the Norton Critical Scores Debussy Prelude to The Afternoon of a Faun when I read your post. Crazy. It's next on my list and I was doing an analysis of it before I do a reduction or try a mock up. I'm looking at the tremolo parts near the beginning, the divisi parts around ms 55, and the parts after. Debussy makes good use of articulations in this piece, especially as he modulates. Nice voicings too.

Good stuff!


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 30, 2013)

I've analyzed all the string voicings in Faune. Only LASS can pull them off today. But to get the sound, you need these TI's Ernest created. 

And thank you for your acknowledgment.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 30, 2013)

ErnestCholakis @ Mon Dec 30 said:


> > Thanks Ernest, and I do appreciate the difference in intent. Nevertheless, both are TIs which change the colour of the samples - I'd love to hear Mike's piece in particular using the built-in BatMan (or similar). Subjectively it sounds quite similar to me, hence why I'd love to A/B/C/D....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



AFAIK you can only do this through LASS 2 playing the midi (there may be a hack but it's beyond my ken). Hopefully Mike has a few minutes to do this, if not I see there's the other thread now that yourself or someone can put up some comparison WAVs there.


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## mverta (Dec 30, 2013)

If anybody wants the dry stems to _Crimson Lake_, http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/Crimson_Lake.zip (here they are).

If the MIDI files would be useful, let me know and I'll put them up, though they're likely a little rough; I did this demo very quickly.



_Mike


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## Will Blackburn (Dec 30, 2013)

considering my template has pretty much every patch loaded into it, is this not going to get rather cpu intensive ? Or would it work to just put a violas ti on group buss violas?


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 30, 2013)

wcb123 @ Mon Dec 30 said:


> considering my template has pretty much every patch loaded into it, is this not going to get rather cpu intensive ? Or would it work to just put a violas ti on group buss violas?



If you mean that every patch is a LASS patch, then yes, group bus by section.


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## constaneum (Dec 30, 2013)

Really wish there's a 7 day trial period for us to try out the demo version and get convinced before paying a huge sum of money for such impulse.


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## Steve Steele (Dec 30, 2013)

constaneum @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> Really wish there's a 7 day trial period for us to try out the demo version and get convinced before paying a huge sum of money for such impulse.



Kinda hard to have a trial period for IR files. But perhaps a single timbre impulse for a single instrument. Like a deep body near the stage TI for cello or something like that.


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## constaneum (Dec 30, 2013)

no need all the IR files. Just a single timbre impulse as you've mentioned. =)


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## Hannes_F (Dec 31, 2013)

Idea: Maybe a low resulution IR is possible? I don't know that but then perhaps every potiental buyer could get a fair estimation of what to expect.


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## constaneum (Dec 31, 2013)

Yes please !! Please give us a trial version with a validity period of at least 7 days. I'm one potential buyer here....LASS user here who's been always looking for ways to refine the harshness of LASS strings which i find it a bit hard to use for creating certain genre music. Sometimes I want it to sound like the way it is but at certain times, i prefer it to be warm/lush sounding.


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## Steve Steele (Dec 31, 2013)

constaneum @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> Yes please !! Please give us a trial version with a validity period of at least 7 days. I'm one potential buyer here....LASS user here who's been always looking for ways to refine the harshness of LASS strings which i find it a bit hard to use for creating certain genre music. Sometimes I want it to sound like the way it is but at certain times, i prefer it to be warm/lush sounding.



constaneum - How do you propose they put a 7 day restriction on a WAV file?


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## mverta (Dec 31, 2013)

Guys, I'm just curious...

They put up the dry file, and then the processed file, using the one library it's designed for. Isn't that about as A/B as it gets? I mean, shy of just posting one single violin line the same way, doesn't this leave virtually nothing in doubt?

With 99% of IR or reverb demos, you're not really sure of the source material; maybe it'll work differently on your samples, or in your studio. But this was made for LASS and LASS only and you can hear the direct comparison between before and after. Personally, this would be enough for me to make my decision, mostly thanks to how specific the usage is.

_Mike


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 31, 2013)

Mike - I'd be up for that midi. I'm looking for an a/b not with dry LASS but with the LASS 2 IRs, which I like very much. If it gives me something significantly different and good I'm definitely interested, but I'm not sure so far it's so different in practice from the AudioBro TIs.


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## Steve Steele (Dec 31, 2013)

If I may... I disagree. Here's why. I wanted to buy a convolution based guitar cabinet solution. There were a bunch of free IR loaders/stackers and a bunch of free IRs. There were also quite a few that weren't free. 

I listened to all of the demos. They all, of course sounded good. However one company, Redwirez, offered one speaker cab IR (out of about 30 or so), with the different mics and positions, and at all the sample rates for free (although you had to use your own IR loader). If you liked and bought the product you received not only every speaker cabinet they make, but with a bunch of different mics, in different sample rates, with Neve eq IRs and the package came complete with their own wonderful IR stacker, mixir2. _I had to try out their demo to hear and see how much more I liked their product than the competition's._

Why not do the same? It's a proven sales tactic and almost everyone uses LASS. Plus with Stage and Color in the product it's a bit of a hard sale to the "average" user.

There's no way Redwirez lost money by releasing that one cabinet IR because it was a very general guitar cabinet that gave you just enough to know their quality and want more. And not all IRs sound the same. Redwirez just happens to sound great. 

While many people are used to using IRs, and some have used IRs for timbral reasons, not too many people have used TIs specifically for a particular product. While the demos may seem obvious enough I think what some people are saying is that they need to get a hands on within their environment, with their plugins and template (and mixing a couple of TIs to see how that works), to really grasp the benefits of your Hollywood for LASS TIs.

And you know how VI is. One fan can become an evangelist. 

My two cents.


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## Steve Steele (Dec 31, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> Mike - I'd be up for that midi. I'm looking for an a/b not with dry LASS but with the LASS 2 IRs, which I like very much. If it gives me something significantly different and good I'm definitely interested, but I'm not sure so far it's so different in practice from the AudioBro TIs.



Guy - I believe Stage and Color is a combination of convolution and modeling, whereas these are all IRs. That may not say much but it's a technical difference. Hope I'm not confusing this with MOTU's Live Room tech. I agree with your point though.


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## mverta (Dec 31, 2013)

nightwatch @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> If I may... I disagree. Here's why. I wanted to buy a convolution based guitar cabinet solution. There were a bunch of free IR loaders/stackers and a bunch of free IRs. There were also quite a few that weren't free.



That's because there are a huge number of variables making it hard for you to judge - different input instruments, different post-processing. You can't tell from a demo whether it would work on your exact setup in that case. In this case, you can, because it's made for exactly one instrument.



nightwatch @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> I listened to all of the demos. They all, of course sounded good. However one company, Redwirez, offered one speaker cab IR (out of about 30 or so), with the different mics and positions, and at all the sample rates for free (although you had to use your own IR loader). If you liked and bought the product you received not only every speaker cabinet they make, but with a bunch of different mics, in different sample rates, with Neve eq IRs and the package came complete with their own wonderful IR stacker, mixir2. _I had to try out their demo to hear and see how much more I liked their product than the competition's._



You're repeating your first example here, and again, the precedent isn't the same because these are generic IR's/processing, not patch-specific IR processing like this is. 

I have no dog in this race, I'm just asking, because you seem to be asking based sort of on principle, versus a practical need. My violin LASS patch isn't any different than yours. How it sounds on mine is exactly how it will sound on yours. If you like the way it sounds, you're good to go. There are no variables.


_Mike


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## ErnestCholakis (Dec 31, 2013)

> AFAIK you can only do this through LASS 2 playing the midi (there may be a hack but it's beyond my ken). Hopefully Mike has a few minutes to do this, if not I see there's the other thread now that yourself or someone can put up some comparison WAVs there.
> Guy



Guy 

Here is a link to a set of demos that directly compares LASS Bat Man Stage and Color with The Hollywood Sound Timbral Impulses. These demos were originally posted by dannthr in the Sample section.

http://www.numericalsound.com/hollywood_sound_ti_lass.html#Timbral_Impulse_ExamplesC

here is the link to the original post:

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35816


The first two demos are the original dry and the Bat Man version - both rendered with LASS 2.5. These sound files had to normalized so that they match the levels of the 
Numerical Sound versions. The rest that follow are all the The Hollywood Sound Timbral Impulses. 

The midi rendering was done in Reaper with LASS (v1.5). Each of the 4 violin tracks was bussed to a new channel strip which had two instances of the convolution - one timbral and one reverb. This mixing approach results in only 4 instances of timbral convolution instead of adding convolution on all the 18 tracks.

Ernest
Numerical Sound
www.numericalsound.com


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## Steve Steele (Dec 31, 2013)

mverta @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> nightwatch @ Tue Dec 31 said:
> 
> 
> > If I may... I disagree. Here's why. I wanted to buy a convolution based guitar cabinet solution. There were a bunch of free IR loaders/stackers and a bunch of free IRs. There were also quite a few that weren't free.
> ...



Mike - I understand your point. Being patch specific it will sound exactly like the demos on the website, end of story. Still, people today like to "touch" a product before they invest - try it in different situations/contexts, compare it to Stage and Color while using other libraries, etc. I myself would like to hear the three different perspectives together both inline and on individual busses. 

I'm not saying I necessarily need to do that before I order. But I can certainly understand why several other posters are requesting a demo and I was trying to give a real world example of that for Ernest. That's all.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks v much Ernes, that's great - I'm out at the mo, will listen later.


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## mverta (Dec 31, 2013)

nightwatch @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> Still, people today like to "touch" a product before they invest - try it in different situations/contexts, compare it to Stage and Color while using other libraries, etc. I myself would like to hear the three different perspectives together both inline and on individual busses.



Understood; got it.

_Mike


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## Steve Steele (Dec 31, 2013)

mverta @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> nightwatch @ Tue Dec 31 said:
> 
> 
> > Still, people today like to "touch" a product before they invest - try it in different situations/contexts, compare it to Stage and Color while using other libraries, etc. I myself would like to hear the three different perspectives together both inline and on individual busses.
> ...



Btw Mike I meant to tell you that Crimson Lake is a beautiful composition.


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## mverta (Dec 31, 2013)

Thank you - it was done very quickly, but it was fun!


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## constaneum (Dec 31, 2013)

> constaneum - How do you propose they put a 7 day restriction on a WAV file?



It's a WAV file ????? I thought it's a plugin? Confused here. :roll:


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## Steve Steele (Dec 31, 2013)

constaneum @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> > constaneum - How do you propose they put a 7 day restriction on a WAV file?
> 
> 
> 
> It's a WAV file ????? I thought it's a plugin? Confused here. :roll:



From the manual PDF...

Look at the manual. Has pictures of the WAV files. 

http://www.numericalsound.com/documents/TheHollywoodSound_LASS_Edition_QuickGuide.pdf

How to apply Hollywood Sound Timbral Impulses LASS edition

1) Insert a convolution reverb from your sequencing program into the track for LASS violins 1.
2) Navigate to the Hollywood Sound LASS folder on your hard drive and select timbral impulse for violins one that you want.
3) Mute dry
4) Set wet to 100%
5) Repeat steps 1 through 4 for violins 2, violas, cellos and double basses.
6) Now apply your favorite reverb. A suggested reverb tail range is between 1.0s to 3.0s.
7) As always test to find the best solution.


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## dedersen (Jan 1, 2014)

mverta @ Mon Dec 30 said:


> If the MIDI files would be useful, let me know and I'll put them up, though they're likely a little rough; I did this demo very quickly.


Really nice composition, Mike! I'd definitely be interesting in seeing the MIDI for this, to do a bit of testing with the LASS color presets. Thanks for the offer.


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## Dracarys (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm torn between who my favourites are in this forum, Mr. Verta or Mr. Knorr; I'll never choose


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## damstraversaz (Jan 6, 2014)

nightwatch @ Tue Dec 31 said:


> mverta @ Tue Dec 31 said:
> 
> 
> > nightwatch @ Tue Dec 31 said:
> ...



I'm totally agree, audio demo are useful, but you can't try it.
If the price was lower ( $30 or something like this) it will be an instant buy, but for $ 99.95 and after the intro price $139.95 , I need to try it at least one in my opinion. i'm not sure for exemple for the celli and bass sound, the demo give me the impression of loosing some definition on the lower. maybe it's just my ears of course.


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 7, 2014)

Ernest will be posting a quick demo from Beethoven's 9th, 4th movement, Ode to Joy, where cellos and basses are in octaves. The tempo and IR selected was based on a performance conducted by Daniel Barenboim. I didn't hear any loss of definition with LASS when it was sent to me to check.


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## ErnestCholakis (Jan 8, 2014)

> i'm not sure for example for the celli and bass sound, the demo give me the impression of loosing some definition on the lower. maybe it's just my ears of course.



damstraversaz

Posted a demo of the 16 bar passage from Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" theme which is arranged with basses and cellos only (from the score). This was done with LASS v1.5. The original is followed by 4 timbral impulses examples: Natural Far, Deep Body Far, Light Body Near and Medium Body Far perspective. This should give you a clear sonic idea of how these TI's change the sound in the bottom end.

Here is the link: 

http://www.numericalsound.com/hollywood ... _Classical


Ernest Cholakis
Numerical Sound
www.numericalsound.com


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## vicontrolu (Jan 9, 2014)

Another vote for the midi Mike!!


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## damstraversaz (Jan 9, 2014)

thanks a lot Ernest for this exemple, it helps a lot to hear more simple exemples, the TI's change are indeed exellent.


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## ErnestCholakis (Feb 2, 2014)

Today is the last day of the introductory sale price of The Hollywood Sound Timbral Impulses: LASS Edition

Ernest Cholakis
Numerical Sound
www.numericalsound.com


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