# Avid S1 (or artist mix) vs Persons Faderport 16



## ChrisHarrison (Jun 17, 2020)

Hello All,

Long time reader, first post.

As these are similarly priced, I wanted to get feedback from you guys with experience.

I'm using Cubase and working with a full sized Orchestra. I have the Spitfire Symphony Orchestra and Solo Strings in there.

I'm hoping to do a few things with a fader box.

1. Enter CC Data.
I'm opened to trying the motorized faders on entry. Both units can do this in cubase via quick controls.

With the S1, I would be forced to use automation I think. Does anyone find that this hurts workflow from using the Key Editor? Or helps using automation lanes? 

The Personus has a mode where I can shut off the motors and do "midi control". This basically makes it a 16 fader "fader master" style controller with 16 available! I'd be using it in automation lanes in this case. 

Also, point for the fader master, it would make a sick midi controller for Omnisphere. 

2. Mix tracks in a large template environment.
I've got about 60 tracks. Not 200. Wouldn't be terrible to bank 10 banks with the Persons, but kind of lame.

The S1 seems to have a smart feature where it follows my mixer around and lets me attention specific tracks easily and lock them? Anyone have experience with this? Say I want to mix the Violin 1 track against the woodwinds group fader, just lock the V1 quickly, and mouse select the woodwinds group and boom?

There's something called VCA spill on there. Can someone elaborate on how this works in cubase? Does it work with group tracks?


I wanted to include the Artist Mix in this discussion as it seems to be quite similar minus the fancy iPad stuff.

Does anyone find the fancy iPad features on the S1 to be a game changer? I'm already using my iPad to run composer tools pro and using that for articulation switching.

Does the iPad feature on the s1 let me grab my built in cubase plugins and control them there easily? What about UAD plugins?





Thanks so much! I would love to hear back from users on their experience.


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## Truthtrader (Jun 18, 2020)

To be honest i would keep away from avid, they say that they are the industry standard but i doubt that today. They also have a habit of stopping the support of hardware products. i have a few friends that spent mega money on c24's back in the day and they pretty much are going to stop working, they cant even give the away.

Also the fact that you are not a protools user tells me to keep away. 

why not look at something like this 









Steven Slate Audio RAVEN MTi2 Multi-Touch Production Console


Multi-touch Control Surface with 27" LED-backlit Screen, User-customizable Toolbar, and Batch Command System - Mac/PC




www.sweetwater.com





I have a few mates that swear by this raven, they say that it takes a week to get used to it but once you locked in you good to go, also at $1000 its a steal. 

Also try this 









Steinberg CC121 Control Surface for Cubase


USB Control Surface for Cubase with 1 Motorized Fader, Multi-function Controller Knob, 12 Rotary Encoders, and Control Room Functions




www.sweetwater.com





Its seriously underrated, it will follow your mixer as you said, and the awesome thing is the hover your curser to use the dial, its really awesome, but i get that you maybe want a bank of faders.

Why not get the mackie

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MCUpro--mackie-mcu-pro

Its been around for ages, you can add as many extra channel banks as you want, it works with mackie hui. 

i think thats what you are actually looking for


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## ChrisHarrison (Jun 18, 2020)

I have this daw control app that mimics the mcu. It’s dope... but honestly not really using it.

I ordered an artist mix last night on eBay for $300 used, so I’ll update you.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jun 20, 2020)

I've used the older single fader Faderport, an S3, and an S1. At one point I also used a Behringer unit with Mackie Control. I replaced my S3 with an S1 as I normally don't need 16 faders, don't use most of the additional features the S3 offers (like the second row of encoders), and wanted something that I can travel with. It was also nice to get some money back which I invested into other gear.

Eucon is miles ahead of Mackie control. I normally have one fader on the selected track, one on the ref mix, and the rest on group faders. I then have a second preset to just to the normal layout with all of the tracks. Mackie control would mostly be useless for me since 90% of the time I'm using the fader for the selected track and can't spend all day banking around. The single faderport is great for this.

VCA spill is fantastic but unfortunately it only works in Pro Tools (there are weird ways to get it to work in Cubase but you need to set up different layout presets and things on every project which is far too much work). Has been incredibly helpful on large sessions with live orchestra where I can dive into the mics for each section.

You can use Eucon for midi control in Cubase but it requires a little "hack" which I could set up for you if you're interested. It just involves adding a couple of tracks to your project (which you can just save into your template). You could also get a single faderport for midi CC with another hack that I created.

The main difference between the Artist mix and the S1 or S3 is the resolution of the faders and it's more difficult to do the VCA spill. Unfortunately the S1 also isn't as nice as the S3 so I do miss having those faders. The S1 has a number of bugs which Avid claims will be fixed in newer firmware (been waiting over a year) but I think it's a hardware issue. 

I don't use an iPad with the S1. Doesn't really offer anything I need and would take up too much space in front of me. Honestly I wish the little stand on the S1 was removable so that it wasn't as tall. In my setup it sits just where the top of it lines up with the bottom of my screen and I would otherwise be able to get my screen lower.


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## ChrisHarrison (Jun 20, 2020)

Thank you!!! I’ll hit you up for sure once I get artist mix.
I messed with using automation for cc s in Cubase yesterday and it’s really good. I can tell the resolution of automation is much higher right away.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jun 20, 2020)

ChrisHarrison said:


> Thank you!!! I’ll hit you up for sure once I get artist mix.
> I messed with using automation for cc s in Cubase yesterday and it’s really good. I can tell the resolution of automation is much higher right away.


Using automation lanes for CCs is a pain unless you're only doing basic work. Much less flexibility and you miss out on things like the logical editor.


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## StillLife (Jun 21, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Using automation lanes for CCs is a pain unless you're only doing basic work. Much less flexibility and you miss out on things like the logical editor.


Can you explain? I have the same question as th op, but I don't understand this remark. Less flexibility compared to? And what has the logical editor to do with it? I think I am missing out on some neat Cubase features?


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## ChrisHarrison (Jun 21, 2020)

I guess you’re talking about the ability to reduce the cc amount but 10% and other logical editor features like that? I know junkie XL is using them.
Not sure if any big time guys are using automation only.
It looks like Hanz has a motorized fader controller for CC.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jun 21, 2020)

StillLife said:


> Can you explain? I have the same question as th op, but I don't understand this remark. Less flexibility compared to? And what has the logical editor to do with it? I think I am missing out on some neat Cubase features?


Compared to working with it in the lanes in midi editor. Plenty of other threads here talk about the issues with using automation for CCs.



ChrisHarrison said:


> It looks like Hanz has a motorized fader controller for CC.


He's just using them for normal CCs. The motors don't do anything. Same as using something like a BCF2000.


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## Garlu (Jan 19, 2021)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> You can use Eucon for midi control in Cubase but it requires a little "hack" which I could set up for you if you're interested. It just involves adding a couple of tracks to your project (which you can just save into your template). You could also get a single faderport for midi CC with another hack that I created.


Hi @Gerhard Westphalen ,

Would love to hear more about the "hack" for the S1 and the faderport! Would you mind ellaborating a bit? 

Thanks!!


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jan 19, 2021)

Garlu said:


> Hi @Gerhard Westphalen ,
> 
> Would love to hear more about the "hack" for the S1 and the faderport! Would you mind ellaborating a bit?
> 
> Thanks!!


I could help you set up either but it is something that I charge for (normally a 1 hour session).

For the S1 (or any other Eucon) I only know how to do it in Cubase/Nuendo and it involves adding a few tracks but if you add it to your template then it'll always be there ready to go. I believe Trevor Morris does his using bidule and the Mackie emulation mode in Eucon but I've never been able to get that to work consistently. If he's running it through PT (as in his S1 is connected to PT) then I think it makes it a lot easier and bidule is just the "translator" going in to Cubase. I basically just do it all in Cubase. 

For the Faderport I use a Max patch which switches between the "native" fader mode (without any buttons working) or 9 different CC's which are selectable via the buttons. The nice thing is that it remember the last position that each CC was left at so in 1 pass you can switch back and forth between CC's to record multiple and it'll move the fader when you switch. 

I've only used it on the original Faderport. I have no idea if it would work with the new ones.


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