# Sample Tank 4 crashing DAW when closing window



## Gary Williamson (Sep 30, 2021)

Hello, I've tried everything I know, and IK support apparently has not had time in over a week to help. So any ideas would be much appreciated. Basically ST4 loads fine, plays sounds fine, but crashes the DAW when closing plugin window. All other VI's, including all other IK VI's, do not do this. Standalone version works a ok. 
W10 pro, problem exists with both Studio One Pro 5.4 and Cubase Pro 11. Below is a vid I sent to support. Thanks!


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## Gary Williamson (Oct 6, 2021)

welp, I re-downloaded the 100GB of ST4 and now it seems to work properly, no crashes. still weird that it would work fine in the DAW until the window was closed but whatever.


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## QuiteAlright (Oct 6, 2021)

Hey there, I have the same problem. IK's support ghosted me and stopped replying completely. I never did get a real solution and I'm trying to sell/trade my copy as a result.


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## QuiteAlright (Oct 6, 2021)

It's also worth mentioning that I replicated the crash in 3 different DAWs, and reinstalling didn't fix the issue for me.


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## Gary Williamson (Oct 6, 2021)

QuiteAlright said:


> It's also worth mentioning that I replicated the crash in 3 different DAWs, and reinstalling didn't fix the issue for me.


Yeah it crashed both my DAW,s . Uninstalling and reinstalling the plug in didn't help. Only when I deleted the libraries and reinstalled those did it help. St4 is picky about the folder structure of the libraries, maybe a little too much. Support never helped me either, just trial and error, installing one library at a time.


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## QuiteAlright (Oct 6, 2021)

Gary Williamson said:


> Yeah it crashed both my DAW,s . Uninstalling and reinstalling the plug in didn't help. Only when I deleted the libraries and reinstalled those did it help. St4 is picky about the folder structure of the libraries, maybe a little too much. Support never helped me either, just trial and error, installing one library at a time.


Interesting. I didn't try reinstalling the libraries so maybe I can make it work...


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## Gary Williamson (Oct 6, 2021)

QuiteAlright said:


> Interesting. I didn't try reinstalling the libraries so maybe I can make it work...


Install one at a time. Clear out all the paths in ST4, add one at a time, test, if good keep going.


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## Gary Williamson (Oct 6, 2021)

Also, when you open the plugin in your DAW, do another rescan all in ST4 before using it.


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## QuiteAlright (Oct 6, 2021)

Gary Williamson said:


> Install one at a time. Clear out all the paths in ST4, add one at a time, test, if good keep going.


Yikes, you mean you installed each of the ≈100 soundpacks separately? Or do you mean you did the main one in the IK manager first, and then did the peripheral ones like drums and acoustic guitar afterwards?


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## KJL (Oct 6, 2021)

i've experienced the same issue in Cubase and i only have the free libs in ST4. Anyone here experienced ST4 close suddenly when in standalone mode?


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## Gary Williamson (Oct 7, 2021)

QuiteAlright said:


> Yikes, you mean you installed each of the ≈100 soundpacks separately? Or do you mean you did the main one in the IK manager first, and then did the peripheral ones like drums and acoustic


nevermind, DAW crashing is back, no support whatsoever from IK, glad these were all freebies and I didn't pay for them. I like TRacks and Amplitube, you can keep ST4, NI Kontakt has nothing to worry about.


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## Quasar (Oct 7, 2021)

Gary Williamson said:


> nevermind, DAW crashing is back, no support whatsoever from IK, glad these were all freebies and I didn't pay for them. I like TRacks and Amplitube, you can keep ST4, NI Kontakt has nothing to worry about.


I haven't had this problem, but after getting ST4 and a few of the instruments for it in the GB, I'm strongly considering nuking all SampleTank from my rig anyway. The UI is klutzy, most of the sounds aren't very good, it takes oodles of GBs of space, and I'm not sure it's worth it to keep around.

I quite agree that Amplitube 5 and T-RackS have made buying in more than worthwhile. Plus, the Syntronik and SampleTron stuff is cool, interesting and fun, Miroslav 2 CE is usable, and all of these can be run completely outside the SampleTank engine. 

Hope you solve your issue, but just suggesting that if you don't, you may not be missing much.


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## QuiteAlright (Oct 7, 2021)

Unfortunately, I didn't buy ST4 in the group buy. So unlike you folks, I can't just chalk it up to "at least it was free" 🙁


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## manw (Oct 8, 2021)

Quasar said:


> I haven't had this problem, but after getting ST4 and a few of the instruments for it in the GB, I'm strongly considering nuking all SampleTank from my rig anyway.


I was in the same boat, but in the end i realized there are a few sounds i like using from the ST library, so instead of pruning everything, i ended up deleting what i didn't need and only keeping the "bare necessities" .

And in regards to the original post, ST is finicky. There are days when i get by for hours on end without a glitch and days when it crashes upon loading a patch (that otherwise worked the day before)...


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## Anthony (Oct 8, 2021)

Gary Williamson said:


> Uninstalling and reinstalling the plug in didn't help. Only when I deleted the libraries and reinstalled those did it help. St4 is picky about the folder structure of the libraries, maybe a little too much. Support never helped me either, just trial and error, installing one library at a time.


Hi,

I have the same problem (Win 10/Cubase 11 Pro) and am going to reinstall all the libraries.

I'll also be upgrading from ST4 SE to the 'full' version (not MAX) and would like to know the total size of all the libraries on disk. Does anyone know how much space they all take?

Cheers...


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## doctoremmet (Oct 8, 2021)

Approx. 215 Gb.


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## Anthony (Oct 8, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Approx. 215 Gb.


Thank you!


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## Gary Williamson (Oct 8, 2021)

Update! So after clearing all ST4 paths, I started again(gluten for punishment I am) I started with the stock ST3 and ST4 libraries. Well, included in the ST4 libraries were two libraries that I had made separate folders for(Hitmaker-Whatever and Electric Grand CP something something).
So, those two libraries were being seen by ST4 in two different locations. I don't know how they were installed in two different locations, I thought they were installed in their respective folders but whatever. I deleted those two folders in the ST4 folder, and now all is well again. Bottom line is check if your libraries are installed in one place, ST4 DOES NOT LIKE CROSS CONTAMINATION!


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 8, 2021)

I was having a lot of problems with ST crashing, I sent into settings and change the streaming settings to large, it hasn't crashed in a long time now since then.


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## b_elliott (Oct 9, 2021)

FWIW: This is the file structure on Win10 for ST4; all are default install locations (Note: No issues so far since day 1): 6 sample libs, all on c:\ drive

\users\public\documents\IK Multimedia\ST4
\users\Bill\AppData\roaming\IK Product Manager
\Program Files\IK Multimedia
\users\public\documents\IK Multimedia\Sampletank 3
\program files\ik Multimedia\Sampletank 4\ Sampletank 4
\users\public\documents\IK Multimedia\Sampletron 2

File structure, for me, has always been let the installer use default locations which likely explains why I have 20 different vst paths = a nightmare that somehow works.



Dewdman42 said:


> I was having a lot of problems with ST crashing, I sent into settings and change the streaming settings to large, it hasn't crashed in a long time now since then.


Per the ST4 settings, my disk speed was set to medium. Out of curiosity I reset to large:

preload buffer - Large (256kbs) very slow hard drive
buffer multiplier - large (4096) maximum samples {note: system has 24GB RAM)

These settings worked for me as well as the medium.

Test: I loaded up 5 different drum kits: Cobham BD, Bozzio snare, Hugh Padgham Ride, Cinematic Perc 144bpm, ST4 Glitch kit. CPU hit 7%. Smooth playback of a latin groove midi pattern grabbed from MODO drums. [attachment included]

Hope something here helps.


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## darkogav (Oct 9, 2021)

I recently started using ST4 in my setup. Have not had any crashes. What version of the VI are you using in the DAW? There are two installed, no?


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## Gary Williamson (Oct 12, 2021)

Update, been using ST4 in Cubase pro 11 last two evenings, no crashes, streaming set to large, carefully watching new library installs to make sure they install in one place. I had a couple libraries that installed into two different locations even though IKPM was directed to one folder.


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## paulwr (Nov 7, 2021)

Same issue here, all seems fine until I close the ST4 GUI in Nuendo 11 and then it crashes with cascading errors. Windows 10 Pro. Glad to see there has been some success here dealing with it, I'll probably try cleaning out duplicate sounds first and arranging things on the sample drive. ST4 MAX was not a freebie for me, either. Bought it by mistake thinking it would get me in the group buy. Some of the sounds (not a ton) are very usable, I want it to work. I haven't used it much in a project yet, but when just playing around I leave the GUI open and hidden when its not needed.


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## paulwr (Nov 8, 2021)

mmm, I was going to try the vst 2 version in Nuendo, but it will not recognize it, only the vst 3. But I did get VE Pro 7 working with ST 4 vst 2 version, and there is no issue running that way on the same DAW computer as Nuendo or I presume on server machines. Until I have time to literally sort out the current issue, this is a good workaround for me and maybe others.


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## jaketanner (Nov 9, 2021)

Gary Williamson said:


> IK support apparently has not had time in over a week to help


I waited an entire YEAR...no joke, I swear...one whole year before they got back to me...they ended up having to give me ST 4 SE for free because I was without ST3 the entire time...kept crashing in PT on certain samples only. Sampletank is a good concept with extremely poor execution and the orchestral samples are not fully developed compared to the current market. I will never use ST again...Other IK stuff is good...but ST is a huge flop!


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## Polkasound (Nov 9, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I waited an entire YEAR...no joke, I swear...one whole year before they got back to me...


Right now there's a support tech at Steinberg thinking, "Wow, those IK guys are FAST!"



jaketanner said:


> the orchestral samples are not fully developed compared to the current market


I never thought of SampleTank as a competitor to any of the dedicated instrument libraries on the market. I honestly don't think IK's orchestral offerings are intended to be a go-to option for composers like you'll find on VI-Control. Rather they're a convenient way for musicians in all other genres, hobbyists, and beginning composers to incorporate orchestral and cinematic sounds into their repertoire... many of whom are probably already familiar with the SampleTank format.

Miroslav, for example, is regularly a top contender in KVR's Readers Choice Awards for orchestral instruments library of the year. If you ran the same contest on VI-Control, Miroslav would probably end up in 139th place. Even the highest-rated, award-winning deep-fried cheese curds would flop in Portland, Oregon.


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## jaketanner (Nov 9, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> Right now there's a support tech at Steinberg thinking, "Wow, those IK guys are FAST!"


lol


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## QuiteAlright (Nov 9, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> Miroslav, for example, is regularly a top contender in KVR's Readers Choice Awards for orchestral instruments library of the year. If you ran the same contest on VI-Control, Miroslav would probably end up in 139th place. Even the highest-rated, award-winning deep-fried cheese curds would flop in Portland, Oregon.


It's so funny to think about that... maybe ignorance is bliss. If Miroslav really was one of the best orchestral libraries, I wouldn't have to spend so much money on other stuff 😉


Polkasound said:


> I never thought of SampleTank as a competitor to any of the dedicated instrument libraries on the market. I honestly don't think IK's orchestral offerings are intended to be a go-to option for composers like you'll find on VI-Control. Rather they're a convenient way for musicians in all other genres, hobbyists, and beginning composers to incorporate orchestral and cinematic sounds into their repertoire... many of whom are probably already familiar with the SampleTank format.


I don't agree with that; I think people are looking for an "all in one" sample library pack. Komplete is the closest competitor there, but I actually think that the market is wide open for a really high quality product of that sort. At least, I bought ST4 MAX before getting Komplete, because I wanted to invest in something that would cover a huge variety of my needs. A lot of beginners _hate _the idea that one should buy a string library, a brass library, a perc library, etc. because they know it will cost them both time and money. 

Researching each library is really difficult even amongst places like this forum. Taking things like the Cremona Quartet for instance; some people here love it, and some people here hate it. You've got people saying it covers all their needs, and others saying it's unusable, and it's hard to discern which people the context behind those opinions. So shopping for libraries separately can be an aggravating experience. That's why I think people go with IK's offerings: SampleTank covers a wide breadth of instruments, rather than deeply sampling a small selection.


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## jaketanner (Nov 9, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> I never thought of SampleTank as a competitor to any of the dedicated instrument libraries on the market. I honestly don't think IK's orchestral offerings are intended to be a go-to option for composers like you'll find on VI-Control. Rather they're a convenient way for musicians in all other genres, hobbyists, and beginning composers to incorporate orchestral and cinematic sounds into their repertoire... many of whom are probably already familiar with the SampleTank format.
> 
> Miroslav, for example, is regularly a top contender in KVR's Readers Choice Awards for orchestral instruments library of the year. If you ran the same contest on VI-Control, Miroslav would probably end up in 139th place. Even the highest-rated, award-winning deep-fried cheese curds would flop in Portland, Oregon.


I have the original Miroslav and used it before I had anything else...the tone is good...it's the playability that's the issue...beginner or not. Let alone if it actually works...LOL. I've tried to install ST 4 SE 3 times on my system...it just won't recognize any sounds consistently. And the way they market the Miroslav on their site is like it's the greatest thing ever...except no true legato.


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## Polkasound (Nov 9, 2021)

QuiteAlright said:


> I don't agree with that; I think people are looking for an "all in one" sample library pack.


That's actually my point. SampleTank is an all-in-one library that covers a lot of instruments. That's generally not the kind of library one would buy to compete with any dedicated, deeply-sampled libraries. My personal belief is that 99% of Miroslav owners currently using the library are not primarily orchestral composers, but rather EDM/pop/rock creators -- many of whom already have SampleTank -- who want to integrate orchestral instrumentation into their repertoire, perhaps to try their hand at hybrid game music. That's why it ranks so highly in communities like KVR. They're not looking for sul tasto divisi legato violas captured by outriggers. They just want orchestral instruments. Miroslav delivers what they need in a convenient package.



jaketanner said:


> And the way they market the Miroslav on their site is like it's the greatest thing ever...except no true legato.


That marketing ain't for us, though. It's for the rest of the global VI community, which is vastly larger than our little VI-Control corner of the world. IK Multimedia speaks to the everyday VI musician... not the composer willing to drop a couple hundred dollars for one instrument because it has ten types of legato.


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## jaketanner (Nov 9, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> That's actually my point. SampleTank is an all-in-one library that covers a lot of instruments. That's generally not the kind of library one would buy to compete with any dedicated, deeply-sampled libraries. My personal belief is that 99% of Miroslav owners currently using the library are not primarily orchestral composers, but rather EDM/pop/rock creators -- many of whom already have SampleTank -- who want to integrate orchestral instrumentation into their repertoire, perhaps to try their hand at hybrid game music. That's why it ranks so highly in communities like KVR. They're not looking for sul tasto divisi legato violas captured by outriggers. They just want orchestral instruments. Miroslav delivers what they need in a convenient package.
> 
> 
> That marketing ain't for us, though. It's for the rest of the global VI community, which is vastly larger than our little VI-Control corner of the world. IK Multimedia speaks to the everyday VI musician... not the composer willing to drop a couple hundred dollars for one instrument because it has ten types of legato.


True. My point though is that it “could” have been pretty good if they’d gone the extra mile. And since you can use Miroslav in Sampletank, it made sense to bring that up. At least it used to be that way.


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## darkogav (Nov 10, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I waited an entire YEAR...no joke, I swear...one whole year before they got back to me...they ended up having to give me ST 4 SE for free because I was without ST3 the entire time...kept crashing in PT on certain samples only. Sampletank is a good concept with extremely poor execution and the orchestral samples are not fully developed compared to the current market. I will never use ST again...Other IK stuff is good...but ST is a huge flop!


I have no issues with IKM support. I recently submitted a ticket for Tracks and Amplitube and the fellow responded within 3 days.


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## jaketanner (Nov 10, 2021)

darkogav said:


> I have no issues with IKM support. I recently submitted a ticket for Tracks and Amplitube and the fellow responded within 3 days.


In my case, support (4 years ago), said they would look into the issue why some patches would crash Pro Tools (all combinations of versions and OS, BTW). I never heard back from them until a year later...at which point I had moved on from Sampletank and never looked back. They gave me the SE version since the old ST was no longer compatible with my OS, and it still didn't work properly. I gave up. ST 3 was stable up to a point...then patches started crashing my DAW anI gave up. I loved Miroslav's interface and would use that way back when...but then THAT also didn't work with my new OS, and was forced to use the sounds through ST.


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## polyandy (Jan 2, 2022)

Happy New Year everyone! I’m new here. Thanks to some tips in this thread I solved my ST4 crashing just now. I think it may have started with a Sampletron 2 update. When I went into Sampletank settings to the libraries (or whatever they call them), Sampletron 2 was listed twice. I deleted them both (I couldn’t figure out how to activate them anyway). Solved the crashing!!


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## Polkasound (Jan 2, 2022)

I discovered the latest three revisions of SampleTank 4 are incompatible with Cubase 9 on Windows 7. When opening a Cubase project that uses ST4, Cubase would crash when trying to load the ST4 instrument. I remembered recently upgrading from 4.1.3 to 4.1.4, so I reverted to 4.1.3 (after trying 4.1.6 with no success) and that solved the crashing. The downside is that I can't use any ST4 extensions released after 2020 as they are only compatible with newer versions of ST4.


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