# Soundproofing a friend's apartment, thoughts & suggestions?



## Piano Pete (Aug 23, 2018)

So I am in the midst of trying to help a friend soundproof their apartment. Unfortunately, his lease is such that they cannot really do any proper construction, so we are left to removable/semi-removable options. 

Thoughts, suggestions, or any recommendations on sound curtains or acoustic solution retailers?


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## SchnookyPants (Aug 23, 2018)

Which specific surfaces? In other words, are there adjacent apt. dwellers above and below as well as "left and right" on the same floor? If the answer is "yes" (to all), oh boy.


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## Piano Pete (Aug 23, 2018)

You know it is exactly that haha. No, it isnt that bad. 

The walls between apartments are pretty decent, although the interior room dividing walls are thinner--probably not supporting any weight. There is one exterior wall, and there is one person above, to the side, and across the hall. 

Wooden walls, floor, and ceiling.


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## ironbut (Aug 23, 2018)

Without being able to construct a "floating" wall on a shared wall (requires new studs) you won't be able to do much.
You can waste lots of money trying though.

I just finished an isolation wall in my condo (which I own) and it added about 14 inches to the wall. 
Still, without being able to cut a break in the continuous sub floor and ceiling or build a floating floor and ceiling, I'll never be able to really isolate my room from the neighbors as far as low frequencies go.
I never work much above 75dB and so far my neighbors haven't complained.


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## jcrosby (Aug 23, 2018)

SchnookyPants said:


> Which specific surfaces? In other words, are there adjacent apt. dwellers above and below as well as "left and right" on the same floor? If the answer is "yes" (to all), oh boy.


Yeah the only way to soundproof anything is to decouple it which involves construction... You can reduce the noise somewhat, but if they can't do construction there's going to be bleed, especially with low frequencies... They resonate and travel through the actual structure of the building... No way around it...


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## Piano Pete (Aug 23, 2018)

I tried explaining that to him, but it is what it is. 

Nice thing is that the neighbors blast rock music; although, luckily, you cannot really hear it in his apartment. I'd be willing to bet his gear produces more of the spectrum than what I assume they are using. He is trying to be conscious and courteous of his fellow tenants. Power to him, but it is kind of sucky.


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## gsilbers (Aug 23, 2018)

what crosby said. soundproofing and sound treatment are different things. you can muffle the sound a bit but you wont get soundproofing. sound proofing is very very very very expensive. unless you get a vocal booth.. to record, well.. vocals. 
The other option is creating gobos. there are plenty of videos. using owens corning 703 or roxul rockboard 60 and some wood work to create thick partitions... but again it will only muffle the sound a bit.


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## burp182 (Aug 24, 2018)

Please understand up front that this will be a stopgap solution, fairly expensive and only partially successful. Having said that, I've had some success in situations like this but level control on your part is of paramount importance.

Mass is your friend. Mass helps stop bass. If you can't nail decoupled drywall to your walls, might I suggest the very heavy sheet vinyl barrier Sonex sells. It replaced the toxic sheet lead they used to offer. It's meant to be used in construction as a layer to add more Mass in a smaller depth but you can frame it and make an ersatz wall an inch or so away from existing structure. Not perfect by any means but it helps stop bass, which is your ultimate enemy in this situation. They offer this in multiple forms now and one might prove helpful to you.

Wish I had a better thought for you but my Harry Potter wand is out of magic at the moment and that's the only real non-construction-based solution I can think of.

Best of luck.


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## ironbut (Aug 24, 2018)

My soundproofing worked pretty well but as mentioned, it isn't exactly cheap.
Luckily, I worked for a long time in construction so I could do all the carpentry and drywall work myself but it still cost a good deal in materials (I built 4 massive bass traps at the same time so it's hard to isolate the soundproofing costs from the room treatment).

I would like to suggest IsoStore for materials and tutorials.
I used their isolating clip system to hang my drywall from and some Green Glue products to get the wall as airtight as possible.

https://isostore.com/


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## jcrosby (Aug 24, 2018)

All great advice. As the OP mentioned though looks like construction isn't an option... Gsilbers has a good suggestion with gobos. I worked for a sample developer who was recording drum libraries from an apartment. (Ah the early days of sample libraries ) He made gobos that fit flush into his windows. Although it didn't do too much for internal transmission it worked really well for noise ordinance.

That said, I converted an open loft in my condo into my studio... They could bring the noise significantly down and still have it be removable so as not to void the lease... It's labor intensive and it isn't cheap, but if that's really what they're after this is pretty much the closest they'll get without voiding the lease. If you do it right you shouldn't need to do more than fill a few screw holes and touch up a few random scuff marks.

I built 1x2 frames, filled them with 1" OC and set them on rubber joists. (You could do 705 with a wider frame... 705's a nightmare to cut though.) You need to compensate for the joists, which leave a 3/4" gap...

Each floating wall had to be made from several partitions. I put drywall on the back and left the front open so I could cut the OC to fit and drywall the front after. (You also want to get the frames in place first to make sure the fit is ok, then pull them back down, put drywall on the back and fill them... (Don't forget to compensate for the space the joists need when cutting drywall as well. I did this on one partition, an extra headache  ) I filled the gaps with a combination of weatherstripping and Rope Caulk. I finished off the gaps with some generic pre-painted molding. It's pretty damn effective...

You could do something similar with a floor but obviously, there's less verticle wiggle room... (I didn't need to do mine since I have another floor between anyone below me.) Maybe some heavy rubber matting with a thin timber frame and ply on top? Not sure... Just tossing out ideas... Imagine it'd bring the noise down somewhat though. The ceiling, unfortunately, is what it is... No shortcuts there... It's basically ceiling clouds to make the room sound better, but do little for any neighbors above... The only other option's a drop ceiling but pretty sure that's off the table...

As far as getting the walls in place I had to hammer them with a rubber mallet. I used L Brackets along the ceiling to keep them in place, Then nailed molding to the floating walls so it looked finished... The floor might be tricky in terms of securing the walls... A few brackets should be fine, but this obviously means screw holes in the floor...

As others mentioned, they could add a layer of mass loaded vinyl on the back... Just make sure there's an air gap (The joists kind of force you into having an air gap anyway... If there's some molding already around the room too then you'll probably get inch and a half to two-inch gap... Either way construction of some kind's the only way to make a significant dent... It is expensive and time-consuming, just something to think about before deciding if it's worth it.

This place has the best price on joists and OC I've found in the US..
http://www.buyinsulationproductstore.com/acoustical-insulation/


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 24, 2018)

Yah, Goboes are what I was going to suggest. The only problem is getting them out when he moves.

One thing that might help decouple the floors somewhat - which I haven't tried - is those rubber interlocking mats.

Just search for "rubber interlocking mats" and you'll see what I'm talking about.


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## chillbot (Aug 24, 2018)

Expensive and a bit of work but a lot less work than trying to float your floor. Look into Auralex SheetBlok. You would cover the wall with it and then layer drywall on top of it so you're really losing less than an inch on every wall. No, not at all soundproof but has enough mass to muffle it significantly. I did my whole studio with the stuff between two layers of drywall.


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## Piano Pete (Aug 25, 2018)

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I think we may be able to weasel adding material onto the walls, ceilings, and possibly floor. He is currently waiting to hear back from the owner to see what he can get away with--especially since they would prefer him to be quiet as possible . So far, he has gotten, "As long as you can remove it when you leave." If it's on his dime, I do not think they'll mind.

The good news is that they did not really check the apartment when the last tenant moved out, and we have already fixed some of their damage since it was easier/quicker for us to do it. The owner never noticed we did anything.

In an ideal world, we may be able to build into the room. Although I do not know the inner construction of the walls they have put up, we could manage to take 2"-8" in from the ceiling, walls, floor, and he would still have plenty of space. Not doin' crap until I know how much of the walls are made of paper mâché



burp182 said:


> Wish I had a better thought for you but my Harry Potter wand is out of magic at the moment...


We'll someone better get on that! xD


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 25, 2018)

chillbot said:


> SheetBlok



"The Auralex SheetBlok Sound Barrier is a dense, limp-mass vinyl material that's about 6dB more effective than a sheet of solid lead at stopping sound transmission"

Well, that kills my next idea: lead walls.


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## wst3 (Aug 26, 2018)

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but soundproofing is expensive, it isn't difficult, but it is expensive. And it is boundary dependent.

Not exactly a thorough treatment, but consider these approaches, all based on the idea that mass is your friend, which is true!

First things first - how much isolation do you need? You can get a workable Sound Pressure Level meter for pretty much any smart phone, get one and make some measurements.

Second things second - are you trying to keep sound in, or keep sound out? While it is true that they are one in the same, treatment methods can be modified (made cheaper) depending on what you are trying to do.

Third thing - is the noise you are trying to keep out (or in) steady state or transient.

Exterior Walls - if it is block you will be in pretty good shape, if it is block backed by earth (think basement) you are probably nearly done.

Interior Walls - multiple dissimilar layers, and as much as mass as practical, and you can achieve decent to acceptable isolation.

SheetBlok works well on walls, not so much on floors and ceilings. But two layers of dissimilar sheetrock is nearly as good.

Floors - once again if it is a poured cement floor you probably don't need to do much. If it is a wooden floor you have a LOT of work to do! Best bet is the decoupled construction, but that isn't always practical (possible?). Horse mats or other dense, resilient, and heavy material will help, but it won't stop structurally borne sound.

Ceilings - I hate ceilings! If you have the height a second ceiling is the only way. If you don't, and most of us don't, then you'll probably need to treat it from above, and if you don't control that space you are probably out of luck. I hate ceilings!!!!

Please keep in mind that in all cases any air gap will reduce, if not eliminate any hard won isolation. You have to keep an eye on that too.

And don't overlook air - or gaps between walls. Mass-Spring-Mass increases isolation, Mass-Spring-Mass-Spring-Mass does not - stick to a single air gap. Make it as big as you can, but just use this trick once.

Have fun!!


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## Piano Pete (Aug 26, 2018)

I'm glad I am not the one paying for it haha! :D


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## Dietz (Aug 26, 2018)

The solution I've decided on for sound-proofing my own workspace:

-> https://www.boxy.it/en/

... a highly professional, flexible and re-usable (!) solution with impressive isolation attributes. The underlying concept also takes care for acoustics, ventilation, light and so on.

Many examples here:

-> https://www.boxy.it/projects/en/


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 26, 2018)

Whisper Room has similar products in the US.

https://www.whisperroom.com/product-tag/ventilation


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