# What's your favorite Strings Library with respect to Timbre Quality ?



## muziksculp (Dec 1, 2020)

Hi,

Which String Library (Sections, not Solo) do you think has the best *Timbre* quality for your taste ?

I feel that in general there is more discussions about legato, and other articulations, ..etc. but not much about the Timbre of string libraries. So I thought this might be an interesting topic to share our opinions, and personal preferences when it comes to the important topic of Timbre.

I am aware that Layering libraries is one way to alter their original timbre/color, but let's discuss the out of the box scenario, no layering with other libraries.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## lettucehat (Dec 1, 2020)

Hollywood Strings (with some mic adjustment), Berlin, CineStrings, Con Moto, and Vista from what I've heard so far.


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## Scalms (Dec 1, 2020)

Great thread, for me tone is number one priority, everything else is secondary. Tone can be tweaked but only so far. I’ve been on a strings hunt for a long time. I get an sense of awe every time I play HZ strings ( mic selection is key here). And I’ve just acquired Berlin Strings which I feel has my ideal tone (clarity,depth, and power, even for smaller section)


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## jbuhler (Dec 1, 2020)

it depends on what I'm writing of course, which is why one can never have too many string libraries, but the sound I default to is SCS.


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## Arbee (Dec 1, 2020)

Left field but I have to say, despite any of its other challenges and shortcomings, the timbre of 8dio's Adagietto (and I assume it's source libraries) is gorgeous to my ears.


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## CT (Dec 1, 2020)

Adagio.


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## jaketanner (Dec 1, 2020)

I have 5, and for different writing styles.

BBCSO is fantastic, with a killer reverb hall and alternate mic options, they sound fantastic..but even the MIX 1 sounds good. 

I love the tone of Cinesamples...again, with a good reverb hall, and some EQ and alternate mic options, it sounds awesome.

Next is NSS and Con Moto...I put these side by side because they're similar...but oddly enough, with these libraries it doesn't matter what mic I use, the tone is fantastic with any of them. 

Lastly I like the sound and tone of the Audiobro NI Symphony Strings...but ONLY the sound/tone, not the playability so I don't bother with them....but if. the upcoming release has a similar tone, I think it's going to be excellent.


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## muziksculp (Dec 1, 2020)

Scalms said:


> Great thread, for me tone is number one priority, everything else is secondary. Tone can be tweaked but only so far. I’ve been on a strings hunt for a long time. I get an sense of awe every time I play HZ strings ( mic selection is key here). And I’ve just acquired Berlin Strings which I feel has my ideal tone (clarity,depth, and power, even for smaller section)



Hi @Scalms,

Thanks for participating in this topic. 

I totally agree with you. That's why I decided to post this thread. You will really enjoy Berlin Strings. 

I have both Berlin Strings, and HZ Strings. I love the timbre of Berlin Strings, they are so natural, sweet, and very pleasant to listen to, Teledex acoustics are very natural, and bring out the rich tones of bowed strings. 

I have not spent much time with HZ Strings, I need to get to know them better, it's a unique library, with lots of possibilities, but I don't consider it a versatile library, I think it is kind of a niche library, given it's large string sections. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Michael Stibor (Dec 1, 2020)

CSS. Silky Smooth and inspiring every time. And no, they're not too dark. They're perfect.


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## muziksculp (Dec 1, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Lastly I like the sound and tone of the Audiobro NI Symphony Strings...but ONLY the sound/tone, not the playability so I don't bother with them....but if. the upcoming release has a similar tone, I think it's going to be excellent.



Hi @jaketanner ,

I never liked the timbre of LASS, or the whole interface, and setup, again.. I know I'm a minority with respect to it's popularity, because it is quite popular. It's one of the worst investments for me, given it's high price when it was released, I never used it, So I'm hoping that AudioBro's upcoming MSS library will
suite my taste much better, and will be attainable at a reasonable upgrade price. 

I like BBCSO Pro's Strings timbre, but I need to spend more time using them. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## jaketanner (Dec 1, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @jaketanner ,
> 
> I never liked the timbre of LASS, or the whole interface, and setup, again.. I know I'm a minority with respect to it's popularity, because it is quite popular. It's one of the worst investments for me, given it's high price when it was released, I never used it, So I'm hoping that AudioBro's upcoming MSS library will
> suite my taste much better, and will be attainable at a reasonable upgrade price.
> ...


hi...the NI strings are far from LASS...I don't really like them much either, but the NI symphony strings have an excellent tone.

I've been playing with BBC more...do you have 7HP?


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## muziksculp (Dec 1, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> CSS. Silky Smooth and inspiring every time. And no, they're not too dark. They're perfect.



Hi @Michael Stibor ,

Thanks for the feedback. 

I like them too, and agree with you, they are not too dark, not sure why that description got tagged to this library, I also love the timbre of the shorts, and Tremolos. Very rich, and soothing to listen to. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## muziksculp (Dec 1, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> .do you have 7HP



What's that ?


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## jaketanner (Dec 1, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> What's that ?


7th Heaven Pro? Reverb...makes a big difference to the overall sound I feel.


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## muziksculp (Dec 1, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> 7th Heaven Pro? Reverb...makes a big difference to the overall sound I feel.



LOL ... Yes, I do. I also have the real deal.


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## jaketanner (Dec 1, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> LOL ... Yes, I do. I also have the real deal.


Even better...LOL Worcester and Mechanics Hall on BBC sounds excellent...there is another there too that I liked, but those two are good staring points. The same patches in Reverberate 3 sound thicker, but not true to the M7.


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## Patryk Scelina (Dec 1, 2020)

I love rough sound of Strezov Sampling Cornucopia 2. Such a shame there are no patches for separate sections. I purchased Afflatus hoping it is that sound, but it is bigger and doesn't match with Cornucopia.


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## Instrugramm (Dec 1, 2020)

If it's only in regard to timbre, I' d have to go with Afflatus, HZS or AROOF (ensemble on mix 1, strings on mix 2). Honorable mentions go to NEO for the flautandi and Tundra for overall smootheness.


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## muziksculp (Dec 1, 2020)

Patryk Scelina said:


> I love rough sound of Strezov Sampling Cornucopia 2. Such a shame there are no patches for separate sections. I purchased Afflatus hoping it is that sound, but it is bigger and doesn't mach with Cornucopia.



Hi @Patryk Scelina ,

Thanks for your feedback.

Interesting that you bring up Cornucopia 2, this library was recommended to me by other members on this forum a while back, I was interested in trying to get the vibe of the strings in _Basil Poledouris_ Score for *Conan The Barbarian*, I love that score, and it's unique sonic character. The Cornucopia 2 Strings have a lot of that character, and I agree they could be more agile if they had separate sections, maybe we can contact Strezov Sampling, and recommend that they vamp it up in the future, maybe Cornucopia 3.

It has a unique timbre. Not my favorite, but I still enjoy the way it sounds.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## pmcrockett (Dec 1, 2020)

It's a toss up between Hollywood Strings and Spitfire Chamber Strings for me, but Spitfire Chamber Strings has the best anecdote: it was on sale, and I clicked through to it from VI Control thinking "I don't even want another string library but I'm curious as to what it sounds like," and upon hearing what it sounded like I had to have it. Probably the fastest I've ever gone from "I don't want this" to "I need this."

SCS and Hollywood Strings are really very different in timbre. SCS is small and detailed, and HWS is large and lush. I suppose for me they represent the extremes of what I want out of string libraries sonically.


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## muziksculp (Dec 1, 2020)

Arbee said:


> Left field but I have to say, despite any of its other challenges and shortcomings, the timbre of 8dio's Adagietto (and I assume it's source libraries) is gorgeous to my ears.



Hi @Arbee,

Thanks for your interesting feedback. 

Yes, 8dio's* Adagietto* was a big surprise to me, it's a little gem. 

It's rarely mentioned, but I agree, it has something very special when it comes to its timbre, very rich sounding.


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## muziksculp (Dec 1, 2020)

Actually, talking about 8dio's Adagietto, I wonder what's different about it, compared to their Adagio libraries, and their other derivatives. It just sound so rich. I wish they could stick to that formula, whatever it is they did.


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## lettucehat (Dec 1, 2020)

It should be the same source material, just really whittled down to an affordable package. I thought the legatos were the Village or Instinct legatos from Adagio? The other articulations also directly from Adagio. Could be wrong htough.


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## muziksculp (Dec 1, 2020)

lettucehat said:


> It should be the same source material, just really whittled down to an affordable package. I thought the legatos were the Village or Instinct legatos from Adagio? The other articulations also directly from Adagio. Could be wrong htough.



Yes, but they sound different compared to Adagio.


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## Gerbil (Dec 1, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Actually, talking about 8dio's Adagietto, I wonder what's different about it, compared to their Adagio libraries, and their other derivatives. It just sound so rich. I wish they could stick to that formula, whatever it is they did.


I think Adagio's superior to Adagietto because a lot of the nice stuff is missing from the reduced library. All those beautiful arcs and loures add something special.

Its very difficult to answer the opening question because it really depends what one's writing. Vista, Adagio and CSS have the best longs ensemble timbre I've heard. For more intimate stuff then Century Strings (including Sordino) is lovely. BHCT strings are wonderful for a small soundstage ensemble, although they're just high and low sections.

BBCSO Pro strings sound really good in the demos and walkthroughs to my ears. I just wish they'd released it as a section on its own. Spitfire are acclaimed for their lively sul tastos but I think it's their short articulations that are just as good. If only they'd do more variations that didn't rely on time stretching.

Sometimes individual articulations from one library jump out as being superb in terms of timbre. Adventure Strings pizzicatos are fantastic.

I should emphasise that I'm somebody who likes to mix libraries (eg con moto basses and celli with Adagio violas and Soaring Strings and HS combined for the violins ) so not really a library purist.

Sorry, just babbled on and haven't really given an answer!


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## stfciu (Dec 1, 2020)

8dio Agitato hands down together with and adagietto/adagio. It is a pity original adagio is not available anymore. I had adagietto and agitato sordinos for a long time and have bought rest of agitato line now. It is beautiful and very underrated library. Tonewise top notch for emotive lines. Anthology for me was an upgrade that is not actually an upgrade. They have simplified things yes but the sound is thin and the stereo image sounds bad. It is not adagio anymore for me. It shall be offered as separate product. Just my 2cents


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## alecgargett (Dec 2, 2020)

The best wet orchestral tone out of the box is Spitfire Symphonic to my ears, closely followed by Berlin and Albion. I'm not sure about the best dry library for tone. I'd say probably Spitfire Studio, Cinematic Studio, Hollywood, maybe Areia.


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## muk (Dec 2, 2020)

Very good question @Musiksculp! For me it's Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings for genera lusage, and Light & Sound Chamber Strings for Chamber Ensemble. For large Symphonic Strings Hollywood Strings sounds nice, and BBCSO has a beautiful timbre as well.

I'm not including Sonokinetic, because they don't have an orchestral strings library out yet. But I do like the tone of the strings in their phrase based libraries quite a bit. I like it at least as much as Berlin Strings. I guess recording in an actual concert hall pays off. It's a sound I am drawn to and enjoy very much.


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## alecgargett (Dec 2, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> BBCSO is fantastic, with a killer reverb hall and alternate mic options, they sound fantastic..but even the MIX 1 sounds good.



I disagree. I hate to say this but I can hear the orchestra making mistakes at times. It's like they were in such a rush they didn't have time to re-record bad samples. There are weird artefacts as if the whole process was rushed. Maybe they will fix it in the future because there was supposed to be a lifetime of updates.

Also not sure about the room it was recorded in. I'm not sure if the BBC Studios room counts as a hall. I think it's supposed to be a fairly dry room, which is an odd combination for ambience. I would want something naturally wetter for a wet sound and something drier for a studio sound.


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## xanderscores (Dec 2, 2020)

I've been using *Vienna Special Edition* strings for many years, but never got them to sound convincingly. Though I'm a heavy fader user, they never sounded human and emotional to me, and the legato is just average.
There my quest for the best string library began.
I bought *Spitfire Symphonic*. They sound warm, but I sense a lack of control and consistency throughout the different articulations and instrument groups.
I tried *CSS*, but the lack of playability and the latency killed me. The timbre was an improvement I think, but I couldn't enjoy it.
Then I bought *LASS *because many people are fond of it. Might be that there is a way to make them sound good, but I haven't found it. There are a few gems among those articulations, but on the whole... I don't know.
Then I upgraded my system to cope with the memory and CPU intensive *Berlin Strings* and I immediately knew that the quest was over. Warm, emotional, moderately sized so that the individual characteristics of the violins shine through, complete control of phrasing and timbre with the faders - it's my holy grail.


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## Tremendouz (Dec 2, 2020)

I see Adagietto mentioned a lot. I could get it for €42 on V8P sale currently but I already have CSS. I could use Adagietto for something where the legato doesn't matter a lot I guess but still, do I need it? :D


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## Macrawn (Dec 2, 2020)

I like the tone of United Strings of Europe. 

Also the tone of the strings in Arc 4. 

Spitfire is no slouch either. 

I don't have the 8 dio one people are talking about but I remember being very tempted by it because of the tone.


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## Sovereign (Dec 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Patryk Scelina ,
> this forum a while back, I was interested in trying to get the vibe of the strings in _Basil Poledouris_ Score for *Conan The Barbarian*, I love that score, and it's unique sonic character. The Cornucopia 2 Strings


I did a quick mockup of the Conan theme I think a over year ago or so with CSS, matches the "vibe" of the original closely.


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## Batrawi (Dec 2, 2020)

Hollywood Strings hands down. Shawn Murphy is a wizard. EW also did an exceptional job in selecting the muzicians/instruments/stage etc.. The result is an extremely warm & balanced sounding library. Not only fit for "Hollywood"(the deceiving label which kept me away from buying the library since its release till a couple of months ago!!) but -with the diamond mic positions- I can also see myself using it even in stuff like pop or chamber music etc... Just wonderful!

And by the way it has one of the best legatos among the many string libraries I own including CSS


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

muk said:


> I'm not including Sonokinetic, because they don't have an orchestral strings library out yet.



They will be releasing a new orchestral strings library early next year.


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## lettucehat (Dec 2, 2020)

Tremendouz said:


> I see Adagietto mentioned a lot. I could get it for €42 on V8P sale currently but I already have CSS. I could use Adagietto for something where the legato doesn't matter a lot I guess but still, do I need it? :D



It still has its own legatos, by the way. Another reason it's underrated. I'd say get it for the tonal contrast, at the very least it's a nice ensemble patch.


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## Tremendouz (Dec 2, 2020)

lettucehat said:


> It still has its own legatos, by the way. Another reason it's underrated. I'd say get it for the tonal contrast, at the very least it's a nice ensemble patch.


Thanks for the insight, I know it has its own legato but it doesn't sound quite as convincing as CSS in that regard. But seems usable for slow, soaring lines


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

Batrawi said:


> Hollywood Strings


 

I'm looking forward to the new release next year, Jan. 21st. and maybe they will have a major re-organization, and improvement of the libraries structure, and some great additions to the library. 

I don't use it, but hear a lot of good things about it, so I think this one is on my radar for the future.


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

I would like to add that Reverb has a lot to do with how the timbre of a strings library ends up sounding. Provided it has a nice/rich timbre to begin with.


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## Batrawi (Dec 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I'm looking forward to the new release next year, Jan. 21st.


😲Did they confirm this updated release date already? All I knew that opus was just delayed for god knows when.. but that was sometime ago and I haven't been following the updates for a while since...


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

Sovereign said:


> I did a quick mockup of the Conan theme I think a over year ago or so with CSS, matches the "vibe" of the original closely.



CSS is a very capable, and quite versatile strings library, with a wonderful timbre. 

I wouldn't mind to see CSS have an expansion library that add more specialized articulations to make it even more attractive. similar to what OT-Berlin Strings Expansions offer.


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## stfciu (Dec 2, 2020)

I had a very intensive research about all available orchestral libraries during present Black Friday. It was really exhausting cause I tried to collect all the pros and cons and guess what...I ended up to using my ears only. The array of different opinions just left me in the blind spot and I could not decide.

My point of view is that the tone perception depends on the user and it is very different from person to person. I know, this is nothing new 

I saw a lot of opinions raving about CSS while some say they are too dark and do not cut through (not to mention most of the people say the legato is the best in the market while some say they hate it because it is burdening the workflow).

The same with Berlin Strings. Some say it has tone nailed to the optimal point while some say it is more on the higher side and does not have enough lows. 

Century Strings, the same history, though it is relatively new library actually I still prefer Adagio and Agitato over it cause for me it is too harsh and the legato is not that flexible. But then again in lot of compositions it will fit perfectly.

I heard mockups for Berlin Strings, Hollywood Strings, CSS, Century that sounded marvelous and I heard also bad ones. So you have to analyze each option very carefully and do not bring conclusion on one opinion or example (or even several ones).

Also it is different if you analyze the tone solely from the library or in context. Sometimes the strings do not sound right out of the box alone and may seem they lack some of the frequencies but then it occurs when you combine it with other sections it suddenly becomes very attractive.

That is why I always try to look for comprehensive libraries cause then you are actually able to fully judge whether the tone is right or not. Taking that in mind I have BHCT and to me it is the best tonewise library of all time. The tone placement for each "section" is brilliant. Again, this is my opinion only not ultimate general judgement for all.

Now I am about to get Hollywood Orchestra cause for me it is gorgeous library in terms of the sound, flexibility and I don't care many say it is rubbish. It actually sounds marvelous to me even after all these years. Compared to other libraries I think many of them still have much to do.

I also think upcoming CSW will be a milestone for many of us cause it will complete the line and I am convinced we will have an excellent choice for new complete orchestral library (well almost but the percussion is the least problematic library to blend). Please check demos from Alex where he used all of the available libaries. My jaw is still not in the place it supposed to be.

At the end, this is nothing inventive here but really, you have to trust your feelings and your gut cause it is really matter of preference and a lot of people here already mentioned this many times. Sadly (or not) there is no library to rule them all. I think it is also good that they are different cause we have different options for different uses and also sometimes it is refreshing to do something with another library than to use the same all the time.

Concluding, my opinion is that everybody here is right about their choice 

Back to the topic: Venice Strings: tonewise my new favourite future buy


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

stfciu said:


> Now I am about to get Hollywood Orchestra cause for me it is gorgeous library in terms of the sound, flexibility and I don't care many say it is rubbish. It actually sounds marvelous to me even after all these years. Compared to other libraries I think many of them still have much to do.



Thanks for the interesting post.

Did you hear something specific that Hollywood Strings has that other String libraries don't ? Are you convinced that it has a nicer timbre than Berlin Strings, CSS, SSS, ...etc. ? 

Just curious what makes you like it so much ?


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## Petrucci (Dec 2, 2020)

There are many awesome string libraries but I'm a big fan of Hollywood Strings. It is lush, the legatos are beautiful and the overall sound is rather dry so you can place it in different spaces with reverb. And I have only used tree mics so there is more potential to it. I've made some pieces utilising only 50% of its dynamic range (0-50) in legato patches and even those 50% provide huge smooth range. The vibrato is changing smoothly in those patches too.
For spacious sound out of the box Spitfire Symphonic Strings are great.


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## stfciu (Dec 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the interesting post.
> 
> Did you hear something specific that Hollywood Strings has that other String libraries don't ? Are you convinced that it has a nicer timbre than Berlin Strings, CSS, SSS, ...etc. ?
> 
> Just curious what makes you like it so much ?



Among many examples
Edit: I did not post Andrew Barraclough examples cause I think it would not be fair  but if you want please check them out https://www.youtube.com/c/AndrewBarracloughComposer/videos

This


This


This (well this is not the best example but I love this staccatos staying behind the back nicely)


this (edit: please take into consideration the example with reverb, the dry is not fair, also I think it would be better to use spiccatos rather than staccatos for honest comparison)



this example shows how flexible HO can be regarding blending (including the strings)
btw I love the sound of Spitfire Studio Orchestra but I know many of the members hate it. So what can you do 



and my personal favourite (the programming is not the best but hey we are talking about the sound )


From what I heard HS is very flexible in tone. I don't claim it is the best sounding library but it is really really good. To be clear I like the tone of Berling Strings and I love how emotional CSS and Venice strings can be. I also love the tone of Spitfire Studio line. My personal dream is to combine HO, Cinematic Studio and Spitfire Studio series. Who knows maybe that dream will come true some day.
But for now I will go with HO (and I am pretty sure I will get CSB for now just to have opportunity to get CSW with some discount).

After all my analysis I realized that I can get very far with Hollywood Strings and the whole package and I rather like to have more flexibility with good tone than be restrained with perfect tone and sufficate my ideas. And hey, the price for HO is ridiculous taking in consideration what it offers (I did strongly considerate Berlin series especially at present sale cause it is a great package but I think for me it is not worth for the moment to invest more considering what I actually need).

Hopes this helps understand my point of view.

BR
Seba


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## Scalms (Dec 2, 2020)

stfciu said:


> 8dio Agitato hands down together with and adagietto/adagio. It is a pity original adagio is not available anymore. I had adagietto and agitato sordinos for a long time and have bought rest of agitato line now. It is beautiful and very underrated library. Tonewise top notch for emotive lines. Anthology for me was an upgrade that is not actually an upgrade. They have simplified things yes but the sound is thin and the stereo image sounds bad. It is not adagio anymore for me. It shall be offered as separate product. Just my 2cents


The original Adagio are still available.  Once I got the full line of their current Adagio (A Part of Anthology Series) lineup, I sent them a request for the original Adagio library and they put it into my account (they also put Anthology into my account). Not sure if you need to get all 4 sections or if you can get them one at a time. So if you buy all new Adagio, you get Anthology and old Adagio for free!


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## stfciu (Dec 2, 2020)

Scalms said:


> The original Adagio are still available.  Once I got the full line of their current Adagio (A Part of Anthology Series) lineup, I sent them a request for the original Adagio library and they put it into my account (they also put Anthology into my account). Not sure if you need to get all 4 sections or if you can get them one at a time. So if you buy all new Adagio, you get Anthology and old Adagio for free!


Oh my, that is really great. I will check this with their support.


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

Batrawi said:


> 😲Did they confirm this updated release date already? All I knew that opus was just delayed for god knows when.. but that was sometime ago and I haven't been following the updates for a while since...



http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-orchestra-opus-edition


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## jaketanner (Dec 2, 2020)

alecgargett said:


> I disagree. I hate to say this but I can hear the orchestra making mistakes at times. It's like they were in such a rush they didn't have time to re-record bad samples. There are weird artefacts as if the whole process was rushed. Maybe they will fix it in the future because there was supposed to be a lifetime of updates.
> 
> Also not sure about the room it was recorded in. I'm not sure if the BBC Studios room counts as a hall. I think it's supposed to be a fairly dry room, which is an odd combination for ambience. I would want something naturally wetter for a wet sound and something drier for a studio sound.


not sure what that has to do with the reverb choice though. The space they recorded BBC was at Maida Vale...this is a fact, and it's not dry, but not wet like AIR studios. either way, these are not concert halls...which is where orchestral music sounds best...hence why we add a hall sound to the samples or live "studio" recordings. Not talking about the artifacts...and every library has them...every single one is without fault.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 2, 2020)

I have two favourites....

1) Hollywood Strings....the lush "woody" tone of the sordino legato viola patches. It never gets old.

2) Any of the sordino patches in 8Dio Anthology.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 2, 2020)

A month ago I would absolutely have said Hollywood Strings, although Venice Modern Strings is beautiful for soft sound.

But now, I would say some of the Afflatus.


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> A month ago I would absolutely have said Hollywood Strings, although Venice Modern Strings is beautiful for soft sound.
> 
> But now, I would say some of the Afflatus.



Hi @Ashermusic,

Thanks for your interesting feedback on this topic. 

I just finished installing Afflatus Strings last night  I will spend some quality time discovering what the positive buzz is all about.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Ashermusic,
> 
> Thanks for your interesting feedback on this topic.
> 
> I just finished installing Afflatus Strings last night  I will spend some quality time discovering what the positive buzz is all about.




Which does not mean btw, that HS is not still going to get a lot of use here, because it does things Afflatus will not and is more cohesive.


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Which does not mean btw, that HS is not still going to get a lot of use here, because it does things Afflatus will not and is more cohesive.



How is HS on RAM usage ?


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## Ashermusic (Dec 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> How is HS on RAM usage ?




Diamond uses a lot.


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Diamond uses a lot.



That's what I thought, if you have Diamond, do you get access to the Gold version as well, or you have to buy it separately ?


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## Ashermusic (Dec 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> That's what I thought, if you have Diamond, do you get access to the Gold version as well, or you have to buy it separately ?



Separately, But if you have the Composer Cloud Plus, both.


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Separately, But if you have the Composer Cloud Plus, both.



Is there a big compromise sonically if one uses the HS Gold version vs Diamond ? Is it mostly number of mics, or articulations, or... ?


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## Ashermusic (Dec 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Is there a big compromise sonically if one uses the HS Gold version vs Diamond ? Is it mostly number of mics, or articulations, or... ?



Mics. I am in love with adding the Vintage mics for that Mancini-ish sound I love.


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## Eptesicus (Dec 2, 2020)

One of my favourites for timbre is Cinesamples solo strings 1st violin and cello.

The 1st violin in particular. Here are some snippets of the violin playing the theme from Brave and a theme from the Witcher .

I just love the sound of it. Sounds so 'folklore' like and the long plaintive portamentos/long slurs are beautiful.


Edit - just realised you said not solo. woops


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> One of my favourites for timbre is Cinesamples solo strings 1st violin and cello.
> 
> The 1st violin in particular. Here are some snippets of the violin playing the theme from Brave and a theme from the Witcher .
> 
> I just love the sound of it. Sounds so 'folklore' like and the long plaintive portamentos/long slurs are beautiful.



Thanks. 

Yes, they sound wonderful for that Folky sound.


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## coprhead6 (Dec 2, 2020)

SSS / Mural JJ mixes..... Rare and unbeaten imo


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## Monkberry (Dec 2, 2020)

I'd have to pick a few libraries as there are specific timbres for the task at hand. For large and pronounced low end I love Spitfire Symphonic Strings. For smaller and more balance timbre I like Spitfire Chamber Strings Pro. I've had Afflatus for less than a day but it's a winner for certain and it can compete with Chamber Strings for certain duties. Then there's CSS. I absolutely love the short articulations but the sustains are hit and miss for me and it may be that the reverb / environment is not always right for what I'm using it in. I'm also partial to Spitfire's use of AIR Studios' Hall on both of the libraries listed above. Lots of great choices. What a great time to be living in for composing and recording.


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

Spitfire Symphonic Strings has a great timbre indeed. 

My main issue with it is that it is lacking a Staccato articulation, it only has a Spiccato. They just skipped a very important articulation. Makes no sense to me.


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## pawelmorytko (Dec 2, 2020)

Probably SSS and Vista if we're talking pure timbre

CSS for drier and studio kind. The timbre isn't my favourite (I prefer larger symphonic sections in bigger halls), but for what CSS is - a studio strings library, it has the perfect timbre in that category


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## coprhead6 (Dec 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> My main issue with it is that it is lacking a Staccato articulation, it only has a Spiccato. They just skipped a very important articulation. Makes no sense to me.




That hasn't bothered me. The Spiccato articulation isn't super short to begin with and I use the tightness control and time machine patches to adjust as necessary


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## Wally Garten (Dec 2, 2020)

Macrawn said:


> I like the tone of United Strings of Europe.



I don't have USE, but I love the tone/timbre of Angel Strings.


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## tomosane (Dec 2, 2020)

It's not a full-fledged string library, but Albion Loegria! No idea how the new "Originals" version compares, I got a license for free but haven't installed it.


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> That hasn't bothered me. The Spiccato articulation isn't super short to begin with and I use the tightness control and time machine patches to adjust as necessary



Interesting, I need to try these options to get the Spicc. to sound more as Stacc. .

I never tried their time machine patches. It's time to try the time machine


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> That hasn't bothered me. The Spiccato articulation isn't super short to begin with and I use the tightness control and time machine patches to adjust as necessary



Hi @coprhead6 ,

OK, I gave it a try, and yes, I can get quite a bit of a Stacc. out of the Spicc. via TM and tightness controls. Here is a pic of my test setting for the Celli .


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## Sarah Mancuso (Dec 2, 2020)

Are the Short 0'5 and Short 1'0 articulations in SSS not considered staccatos? You can shorten them to any length needed by enabling the release triggers.


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## coprhead6 (Dec 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @coprhead6 ,
> 
> OK, I gave it a try, and yes, I can get quite a bit of a Stacc. out of the Spicc. via TM and tightness controls. Here is a pic of my test setting for the Celli .



Glad I could help!!
It’s great with automation on CC16/18 (depending on the library).

You can create some awesome variation


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

I also edited the AMP Envelope of the Spicc. because the attack time it was too fast/abrupt of setting for natural sounding Stacc. I increased it to slow it down a bit. 

Here is a pic my *AMP Env.* edit


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

coprhead6 said:


> Glad I could help!!
> It’s great with automation on CC16/18 (depending on the library).
> 
> You can create some awesome variation



Thanks @coprhead6 .

Yes, your feedback was very helpful.


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Are the Short 0'5 and Short 1'0 articulations in SSS not considered staccatos? You can shorten them to any length needed by enabling the release triggers.



I don't think they qualify for Stacc. They have a slower attack sound to be stacc. and you can not inject that into them via time machine.


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## artomatic (Dec 2, 2020)

Afflatus. Especially the Scene d'Amour patches.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 2, 2020)

artomatic said:


> Afflatus. Especially the Scene d'Amour patches.



Just the sound of that name sounds intriguing. I need to hear these!


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## tebling (Dec 2, 2020)

I've been experimenting with layering Afflatus with Con Moto violin and viola, and liking the results quite a lot. Afflatus for the silky smoothness, and Con Moto for the rebowing and "realism".


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## erikradbo (Dec 2, 2020)

The spiccato in Albion ONE. Smoooooth.


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## Vik (Dec 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Which String Library (Sections, not Solo) do you think has the best *Timbre* quality for your taste ?



CSS – especially the V1/V2 and Va, but also the cellos, sounds great with the right mic combinations, when avoiding the most intense vibrato/dynamic levels.
SSS sounds great when looking for a more symphonic sound.
I was disappointed at first when I bought Berlin Strings, probably because I was used to the very rich and large sound of Mural, but there's lots of great timbre in many of the BS presets as well – one just has to get used to a different way of using mic positions than in the Spitfire libraries. The Sul Tastos in one of the EXP kits sounds particularly good, and both the violins (particularly the V2?), and also the cellos sound good.
Con Moto takes the expressiveness of CSS one level further, so that's also a favourite, especially the violins and cello.

SCS, especially the V1 and cello, also have a great tone. Even Soaring Strings have a great tone, especially when avoiding the most intense dynamic layers. Their cello sounds really good IMO when played softly.
Then there's some of the Afflatus presets which also stick out as sounding very good. Many mention the Scene dAmour presets, but the Lush presets, including the half sections, are among my favourites.

There's also a library which I don't have, but which I think is among the best sounding: Hollywood Strings. Sorry, Musiksculp, I see that you asked for library and not libraries. Too late – and I don't have only one favourite anyway!


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

Here is a short noodling with the* Spitfire Symph. Strings Spicc.* Celli, TM edited version to make it sound like a Stacc.


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## Monkberry (Dec 2, 2020)

Vik said:


> Then there's some of the Afflatus presets which also stick out as sounding very good. Many mention the Scene dAmour presets, but the Lush presets, including the half sections, are among my favourites.
> 
> There's also a library which I don't have, but which I think is among the best sounding: Hollywood Strings. Sorry, Musiksculp, I see that you asked for library and not libraries. Too late – and I don't have only one favourite anyway!


Regarding Afflatus, in the very short time I've had to run through the presets and explore, The Lush presets are definitely a standout. I'm very pleased and impressed overall with Afflatus.


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## jbuhler (Dec 2, 2020)

tomosane said:


> It's not a full-fledged string library, but Albion Loegria! No idea how the new "Originals" version compares, I got a license for free but haven't installed it.


No legato in the Originals, which is a shame. But the lovely tone is still there.


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

I was watching this video comparing SSS with EW-HS Plat. 

It's surprising how similar they sound. Although I prefer the warmer, lusher sound of SSS as you can hear them in this video.


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## Fenicks (Dec 2, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> One of my favourites for timbre is Cinesamples solo strings 1st violin and cello.
> 
> The 1st violin in particular. Here are some snippets of the violin playing the theme from Brave and a theme from the Witcher .
> 
> ...



Does the Cinesamples solo cello have a similar folkloric feel to the 1st violin? I have been writing a song that sounds like something from a dark fairytale and would love a cello with a moody, folkloric timbre for it.


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## alecgargett (Dec 2, 2020)

Fenicks said:


> Does the Cinesamples solo cello have a similar folkloric feel to the 1st violin? I have been writing a song that sounds like something from a dark fairytale and would love a cello with a moody, folkloric timbre for it.


I think so. Sounds like the Star Wars force theme to me. You can find some demos of that one on YouTube.


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## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2020)

@Fenicks ,

CineSamples *Solo Cello* Legato ... Just a fast noodling around.


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## Eptesicus (Dec 3, 2020)

Fenicks said:


> Does the Cinesamples solo cello have a similar folkloric feel to the 1st violin? I have been writing a song that sounds like something from a dark fairytale and would love a cello with a moody, folkloric timbre for it.



Yes, I think it does.

Also, im sure i read that its the same player/cello as the one who did the game of thrones theme. Can't get more 'dark fairytale ' than that


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## TomislavEP (Dec 3, 2020)

Generally, I prefer the more intimate sounding strings. Most often, I use those included in Albion and Loegria libraries and occasionally Adagietto as an alternative.

I'm also very fond of the "nordic" strings sound, so I often use Tundra, Chamber Evolutions, and British Drama Toolkit. Recently I've added "Sospiro Strings" from Ben Osterhouse to my toolkit as well. Another smaller gem that comes to mind is "Arctic Strings" from FrozenPlain.


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## Bluemount Score (Dec 3, 2020)

Funny enough not CSS this time for me. BBCSO strings have my favorit timbre.


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## Fenicks (Dec 3, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> @Fenicks ,
> 
> CineSamples *Solo Cello* Legato ... Just a fast noodling around.


Legend! Thanks for that. It has a mournful and mysterious quality. Definitely going to check it our further.



Eptesicus said:


> Yes, I think it does.
> 
> Also, im sure i read that its the same player/cello as the one who did the game of thrones theme. Can't get more 'dark fairytale ' than that



Oooh. I like that!


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## khollister (Dec 3, 2020)

I have HWS Diamond, SSS Pro, Synchron Strings Pro, SCS Pro, LASS and several "partial" string collections in Symphobia, all the Albions, etc. I have listened to demos extensively of CSS.

For timbre (setting aside ease of use, articulations, etc) my #1 favorite, especially in versatility is still HWS. The inherent tone plus the mics, finger positions, dryness and envelope controls make it very flexible sonically. Ease of use is it's biggest shortcoming, but that is offset by the huge variety of articulations & sonic malleability. And PLAY has become rock solid, even on Mac, at this point - quite a change from the old days.

SSS is gorgeous, but it is sort of a one trick pony due to the ever present hall

SSP is great for a more detailed, neutral sound - kind of like LASS with the rough edges sanded off. I mainly got it to integrate/complete the BBO environment and I _love_ the Synchron Player.

I also agree that the strings in Albion Loegria are fantastic in tone and delicacy - I never have replicated the sound with CSC.

Given I still often prefer HWB to CineBrass, Spitfire or Century Brass for various reasons, I am really hopeful that HOOPUS improves the ease-of-use and fixes the hot mess that the woodwinds are (usual great EWQL recording, terrible programming).


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## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> Funny enough not CSS this time for me. BBCSO strings have my favorit timbre.



Hi @Bluemount Score ,

Thanks for your interesting feedback. 

I have the BBCSO Pro library, but believe it or not, I haven't used it yet. The BBCSO Strings sound wonderful in many of the videos, and demos I heard. So, I'm super excited about using them, and getting a feel for what they offer compared to the other Strings libraries I have, and I have a lot.


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## Bluemount Score (Dec 3, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Bluemount Score ,
> 
> Thanks for your interesting feedback.
> 
> I have the BBCSO Pro library, but believe it or not, I haven't used it yet. The BBCSO Strings sound wonderful in many of the videos, and demos I heard. So, I'm super excited about using them, and getting a feel for what they offer compared to the other Strings libraries I have, and I have a lot.


It's the room that makes them sound natural and clear from low to high end


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## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> It's the room that makes them sound natural and clear from low to high end



Acoustics are so important, they are imho. an integral part of the instruments.


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## Bluemount Score (Dec 3, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Acoustics are so important, they are imho. an integral part of the instruments.


Definitely!


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## unclecheeks (Dec 3, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> ....but if. the upcoming release has a similar tone, I think it's going to be excellent.



Is there an incoming NI strings release or something? I’m also not a big fan of symphony series playability but do agree the tone is decent.


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## Beans (Dec 3, 2020)

unclecheeks said:


> Is there an incoming NI strings release or something? I’m also not a big fan of symphony series playability but do agree the tone is decent.



Audiobro created the Symphony Series strings with NI, and are about to follow up with their own strings library, Modern Scoring Strings. Audiobro is previously famous for LA Scoring Strings.


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## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2020)

I'm really hoping that AudioBro's upcoming MSS library has a wonderful timbre, because LASS for me was lacking big time in that dept.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 3, 2020)

And once again, only because I love you, here is a comparison for timbre of every strings section I own Violins 1 and 2. I did omit Kirk Hunter's Virtuoso Ensembles, as they are similar to the Concert Strings 2 and Metropolis Ark 1 because their legato is in octaves. It is not a fair comparison in terms of the smoothness of the legatos or anything other than timbre, since the same MIDI is used for all, so just listen for their timbre. I added one of my favorite reverbs, newly re-discovered.


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## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2020)

@Ashermusic ,

Thanks for the Violins comparison.

Sonic Implants sounded odd, but that's a very old library.

The rest were very nice, and not too different.

That was kind of a surprise to me, I thought, They do sound slightly different, but not by that much of a difference, if this was a blind test to identify the libraries, it wouldn't be a very easy test. I also think CSS sounded the most transparent, and less thick timbre wise. Some of the them had a lot of bow/rosin screech sound, some were smoother, with less of the bow sound being audible.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 3, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> @Ashermusic ,
> 
> Thanks for the Violins comparison.
> 
> ...




Well, again, if I were to play it in on each one, it would be fairer because they react differently to velocity and MIDI CCs, etc.

Damned if I didn't forget one: Spitfire BBCSO Discovery.


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## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Well, again, if I were to play it in on each one, it would be fairer because they react differently to velocity and MIDI CCs, etc.
> 
> Damned if I didn't forget one: Spitfire BBCSO Discovery.



I agree. So you just copy pasted the midi in these demos.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 3, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I agree. So you just copy pasted the midi in these demos.



Yes.


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## Petter Rong (Dec 21, 2020)

If we're talking string ensembles, 8Dio Adagietto has a very special timbre to me, unlike any other library I've heard or tried. I had just bought CSS when I did this song with a friend of mine, but I needed the strings to lay in the background like a pad with certain legato lines sticking out from time to time, and it didn't fit at all. So I ended up going through a couple of cheaper ones I had, including Albion ONE that has a great pad-like sustain patch, but it didn't make the cut either. So Adagietto saved the day. The portamentos worked great in this track for me. Sounds lush and intimate at the same time. It's not a joy to work with, lots of quirks, but in a song like this where the strings act as a background element, you don't hear the noises and scripting errors, just the tone. It's relatively dry, even with the far mics, and connects well with reverbs.

The shorts are quite unique too. Listen to Colin O'Malley's 8Dio AGE demo (comes in at around 0:23, also features some legato later in the track)

.

Bit hard to explain, it has a punchy attack but the length of a longer staccato and a nice rounded release. And unfortunately some of the same quirks as the rest of the library  I probably wouldn't use it in a symphonic setting or as a convincing realistic element, but it definitely has a purpose.

Solo-wise, the Waverunner Alder series is quite unique to me. Again, it serves a different purpose than what I suspect most look for in solo strings (I don't think it even has legato) but for intimate textures it's really great. The different mics are very dramatically different which gives you lot of options, and just the balance can help push it back if it's too "in your face".

As for a traditional bread'n butter string library, I'm honestly still searching. I have been through a lot of them, and they all have their drawbacks. CSS with it's stupid delay system, lack of knobs (have to tweak by MIDI CC), fake con sordinos and high noise floor. CineStrings with lots of player noises, weird legato and the CineSamples articulation mapping that I never got the hang of, Century Strings with unpredictable attacks on sustains, legatos that drop randomly in volume from note to note and without a solid mighty stacc patch, Trailer Strings that does what it says on the tin and not much more (except the gorgeous soft string patch). I've decided to give Century 2 a try, and was also recommended Areia so got that at BF sale. Can't wait to get back to my workstation after Christmas :D


My friend's song:



Here's the string/solo cello/perc stem I found laying around on my MacBook:


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## muziksculp (Dec 21, 2020)

Hi @Petter Rong ,

Thanks for your interesting, and helpful contribution on this topic. 

I always praised, and was surprised on how good and rich 8dio Adagietto sounds. It's a little strings gem library, not perfect, I agree, but it has some wonderful sonic characteristics, and the shorts are very good indeed. 

I'm still searching for the kind of Strings timbre I like in a sample library, but so far, I haven't found it, maybe it will be possible to achieve via layering, EQ, ..etc. so creative sound design, but it would be so nice if I could have the strings library that delivers the type of timbre I like, right out of the box. 

So...The search for my go-to, and superbly wonderful timbre strings library continues. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Ashermusic (Dec 21, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Petter Rong
> 
> I'm still searching for the kind of Strings timbre I like in a sample library, but so far, I haven't found it, maybe it will be possible to achieve via layering, EQ, ..etc. so creative sound design, but it would be so nice if I could have the strings library that delivers the type of timbre I like, right out of the box.
> 
> ...



Seriously? With all the different timbres on all the offerings from EW, Spitfire, OT, Cinematic Studios, Strezov Sampling, Cinesamples, VSL, Sonokinetic, Audiobro, Embertone, Kirk Hunter, Fluffy Audio, and countless others, you can find even _one_ that has “the type of timbre I like right out of the box”?

Maybe you want a timbre that real string sections don’t actually produce.


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## holywilly (Dec 21, 2020)

My favorite timbre is the combination of VSL Synchron Strings Pro and Dimension Strings (small ensemble size of 44332 house in MIR Pro Synchron Stage).

Synchron Strings Pro has superb room tone and yet not too wet, and Dimension String’s beautiful legato and detailed raw sound enrich the overall sonic quality of the whole string ensemble.


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## holywilly (Dec 21, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Seriously? With all the different timbres on all the offerings from EW, Spitfire, OT, Cinematic Studios, Strezov Sampling, Cinesamples, VSL, Sonokinetic, Audiobro, Embertone, Kirk Hunter, Fluffy Audio, and countless others, you can find even _one_ that has “the type of timbre I like right out of the box”?
> 
> Maybe you want a timbre that real string sections don’t actually produce.


Room tone matters, perhaps.


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## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Seriously? With all the different timbres on all the offerings from EW, Spitfire, OT, Cinematic Studios, Strezov Sampling, Cinesamples, VSL, Sonokinetic, Audiobro, Embertone, Kirk Hunter, Fluffy Audio, and countless others, you can find even _one_ that has “the type of timbre I like right out of the box”?
> 
> Maybe you want a timbre that real string sections don’t actually produce.



Hi @Ashermusic ,

Yes, I know there are so many string libraries to choose from, but truly, non of them does it for me out of the box. I think I will eventually find what I want by layering some of them together, it's just a matter of time, and finding the magic formula, or formulas that deliver the timbre/s I will be very satisfied with. It's a complex puzzle. 

@holywilly ,

Yes, Room Tone, Reverb usage, acoustics, make a huge difference. 

I was experimenting with Sample Modeling Solo & Ens. Strings lately, using a lot of the built-in tools to edit the characteristics of the strings timbre, it's a deep library, spending hours experimenting, I got some timbre improvements, but I wasn't convinced, or satisfied with the results. 

I then decided to use the Dry version of the Strings, and use some of my reverb option to see if that made a difference, and surely it did, actually I began hearing a considerably better timbre from these strings that was not audible in the wet/processed versions of the library. I can't say I'm impressed yet, but spending a good amount of time, experimenting with a Strings library is an important part of discovering what these libraries can deliver, it takes time, and effort. There are no shortcuts.


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## holywilly (Dec 22, 2020)

@muziksculp 
Put the dry strings into MIR Pro, dry/wet ratio around 15~25%, that’s quite satisfying


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## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

holywilly said:


> @muziksculp
> Put the dry strings into MIR Pro, dry/wet ratio around 15~25%, that’s quite satisfying



Hi @holywilly , and Thank You for the great tip. I forgot all about MIR-Pro. Don't know why. 

I have to give this a try with Sample Modeling Solo & Ens. Stirngs. 

I have a bunch of MIR-Pro venues to choose from. Plus I can spatialize the various sections in the space, which is another advantage of using MIR-Pro. 

About dialing in the dry/wet ratio between 15-25% Yes, that is an important detail, I remember when I used MIR-Pro the first time, and had it at 100% wet , the results were horrible


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## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

@holywilly ,

By the way, I also fancy VSL Dim-Strings, I plan to spend some time experimenting with them, and using them with VSL Synchron Strings Pro, like you mentioned earlier. I think those two could be a fantastic combo. Thanks for your very helpful feedback.

I remember a little while back, I used my Bricasti M7 (the HW), on VSL Dimension Strings, the results were stunning.

Which Reverb do you use with VSL Dim-Strings ?


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## holywilly (Dec 22, 2020)

Dimension Strings are truly the secret weapon in this regard. I really dig the legato (especially the espressivo legato), very expressive across all the dynamics.


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## holywilly (Dec 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> @holywilly ,
> 
> By the way, I also fancy VSL Dim-Strings, I plan to spend some time experimenting with them, and using them with VSL Synchron Strings Pro, like you mentioned earlier. I think those two could be a fantastic combo. Thanks for your very helpful feedback.
> 
> ...


I put them into MIR Pro (Synchron stage), using the MIRx presets for positioning. Then I insert Cinematic Room Pro on my string bus, adjust the dry/wet until I’m satisfied.
My strings bus has both dimension strings and Synchron strings pro. I’ll send you the string example tomorrow when I hit the studio.


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## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

holywilly said:


> Dimension Strings are truly the secret weapon in this regard. I really dig the legato (especially the espressivo legato), very expressive across all the dynamics.



Thanks, I will spend some quality time with the Esp. Legato.

I also like the short articulations.


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## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

holywilly said:


> I put them into MIR Pro (Synchron stage), using the MIRx presets for positioning. Then I insert Cinematic Room Pro on my string bus, adjust the dry/wet until I’m satisfied.
> My strings bus has both dimension strings and Synchron strings pro. I’ll send you the string example tomorrow when I hit the studio.



That's awesome ! 

Thank You, I really appreciate your feedback.


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## muk (Dec 22, 2020)

Strictly timbre-wise, I love Sonokinetics strings libraries (phrase-based only at the moment, though a workhorse orchestral strings library is in the works). I also like the timbre of the EWQLSO strings. For chamber strings, Light & Sound Chamber Strings are my favourites trimbre-wise currently. Interestingly, I love everything about Dimension Strings _but_ their timbre. With every player being close-miced, as is necessery for the Dimension concept, it makes for a very upfront sound signature. I don't like that, and no matter what processing I tried, I couldn't get rid of it. In my opinion Dimension Strings can be great to add definition to other strings libraries if blended carefully. On their own, I don't like their timbre.


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## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

muk said:


> Strictly timbre-wise, I love Sonokinetics strings libraries (phrase-based only at the moment, though a workhorse orchestral strings library is in the works). I also like the timbre of the EWQLSO strings. For chamber strings, Light & Sound Chamber Strings are my favourites trimbre-wise currently. Interestingly, I love everything about Dimension Strings _but_ their timbre. With every player being close-miced, as is necessery for the Dimension concept, it makes for a very upfront sound signature. I don't like that, and no matter what processing I tried, I couldn't get rid of it. In my opinion Dimension Strings can be great to add definition to other strings libraries if blended carefully. On their own, I don't like their timbre.



Hi @muk,

Thanks for contributing to this topic.

Yes, I agree, Sonokinetic's strings sound wonderful timbre wise, but they are all phrase based libraries.

My hope is they can deliver that same sound/timbre in their upcoming non-phrase based Strings library. We shall know if they were able to do that once they release it early 2021. I'm guessing that means during Q1-2021. I'm also curious as to where they record their current Phrase-Based Strings ? and are they using that same venue for their upcoming strings library ? (I hope so).

I think to make VSL Dimension strings sound the way one likes, a good amount of sound-engineering is needed, be that using MIR-Pro, High-Quality Algorithmic Reverb, HW-Reverbs, EQ, and other DSP treatments to mold them to taste, I haven't spent that much time doing that, but I plan to. I also agree that Dim-Strings might be even more suitable to layer with other String libraries for the definition component, lots of possibilities, that's why this topic is super deep, complex, and depends on personal tastes.

I should also add, that the type of string music one is seeking has an impact, i.e. if you are trying to create a modern string sound, vs. the string sound of an 18th Century Baroque Ensemble, or Cinematic type lush sounding strings, vs. harsh-edgy drama strings, ...etc. ...etc.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Batrawi (Dec 22, 2020)

Sorry in case this was mentioned before, but I just want to add 8dio's Anthology/Adagio Chamber sections. This thing just sounds absolutely magical!


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## GtrString (Dec 22, 2020)

I like a lot of the timbres in strings libraries. Some are more subdued and some more up front, it depends on the mix what I prefer.

I could be tempted to think that you might want to question how you monitor the sound, if you don’t like any of the offerings. I mean, do you turn the speakers up so they sound as full as they should? I think almost all of them are very good.

Adjust a little eq and verb to the context, and off ya go.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

Hi @Batrawi ,

Thanks for the contributing to this topic.

8dio Anthology Strings/Chamber sections sounds wonderful indeed. Very passionate sounding. The legatos are so smooth, and so is the playability. I have this library, but have ignored it for a long time, time to revisit, and enjoy the sound of this library.

Oh .. there isn't much discussion lately about 8dio's Century Strings 2, How do you like the timbre of 8dio Century Strings 2 ?

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Batrawi (Dec 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> How do you like the timbre of 8dio Century Strings 2 ?


I honestly wasn't impressed by V.2's (nor the earlier version's) timber so I never bothered to upgrade actually. I probably mentioned this somewhere before, but it sounds very thin and the bow-change legato makes it even worse for me to make any use out of it.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

Batrawi said:


> I honestly wasn't impressed by V.2's (nor the earlier version's) timber so I never bothered to upgrade actually. I probably mentioned this somewhere before, but it sounds very thin and the bow-change legato makes it even worse for me to make any use out of it.



I agree. The upgrade cost was minimal, but what's sad is that they spent two years working on this library, and all I hear is they just made the sections in Situ. nothing else to be excited about. I think that was one of the most boring string library upgrade releases this year. 

Thanks.


----------



## muk (Dec 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I'm also curious as to where they record their current Phrase-Based Strings ? and are they using that same venue for their upcoming strings library ? (I hope so).



Their orchestral libraries (Minimal, Tutti, Vivace...) have been recorded at the concert hall in Zlin. I hope the same will be true for their orchestral strings.

By the way, Altiverb includes IRs from that venue. If you don't own Altiverb, Sonokinetic posted a free IR here: https://support.sonokinetic.net/support/solutions/articles/242675-zlin-impulse-responses



muziksculp said:


> I think to make VSL Dimension strings sound the way one likes, a good amount of sound-engineering is needed,



That's defninitely true. I am not a sound-engineer, and I never managed to make DS sound the way I wanted. And not for lack of trying. In the end, I think that no matter the processing, a bunch of close miced players can only give an approximation of the sound of strings recorded in a concert hall. Close micing with processing will never sound quite the same as a recording with a decca tree in a natural ambience. Even more so if you consider that with DS, you don't have just one closed mic source, but one with every single musician. That's 24 close miced sources that you try to make sound like a string orchestra recorded in a natural ambience. For me, that wasn't possible. Thus I think it's best to use DS according to the way they have been recorded. And that is to add detail and a close-up sound to other libraries. Or as dry and relatively close studio strings on their own.


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 22, 2020)

Musicsculp, can you point to an example of a real strings recording that has the timbre you are wanting?


----------



## Casiquire (Dec 22, 2020)

To the original question, I think it depends on a lot of things. For a chamber ensemble, despite not owning it I think Spitfire Chamber Strings probably has my favorite. For a large sound i have to go with LASS because of how flexible and authentic it is. But for a particular sweeping or emotive classical sound, Soaring Strings and Adagio have something special about them



muziksculp said:


> Hi @holywilly , and Thank You for the great tip. I forgot all about MIR-Pro. Don't know why.
> 
> I have to give this a try with Sample Modeling Solo & Ens. Stirngs.
> 
> ...


This is SO IMPORTANT with MIR! Leave it largely dry, or if you love the color of the room up the wetness but shorten the tail. Too much does sound really bad but the right balance sounds beautiful.


----------



## cloudbuster (Dec 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Yes, I agree, Sonokinetic's strings sound wonderful timbre wise, but they are all phrase based libraries.


Not quite, Sonokinetic's 'Da Capo' is a standard non-phrase orchestral ensemble library (Strings, Brass, WW, Perc.) and contains some of my favorite symphonic strings, next to BBCSO (notwithstanding the issues with the shorts in the latter one).
If @Ashermusic would upload the midi of his comparison I would add an mp3 with the Da Capo strings for comparisons sake.


----------



## X-Bassist (Dec 22, 2020)

Tone-wise I like CSS, SCS, SSS, and for a classic film sound BHCT. Just bought Century Harps last night and am so disappointed that I won’t consider century strings, but Adagio Sordino still has a nice silky tone. But 8Dio never works on the patches to smooth out the playability, like SCS or CSS.

But everything changed with the Afflatus half off sale. Again, the selection of great tones is one aspect, the playability is another. Someone worked on the patches extensively, which makes them play, esp with poly legato, a dream. The Entire string section plays so nicely (with ensemble and separate sections) that I never want to buy another string library without poly-legato. Even the Vintage patches are beautiful. Large size and small chamber sections, it’s xpensive but covers a lot. Even at half price it’s the most I’ve spent on a string library, and I probably have 2 dozen, but I don’t regret it.😁


----------



## AR (Dec 22, 2020)

muk said:


> Their orchestral libraries (Minimal, Tutti, Vivace...) have been recorded at the concert hall in Zlin. I hope the same will be true for their orchestral strings.
> 
> By the way, Altiverb includes IRs from that venue. If you don't own Altiverb, Sonokinetic posted a free IR here: https://support.sonokinetic.net/support/solutions/articles/242675-zlin-impulse-responses
> 
> ...


8dio also recorded many of their libraries there. Somehow I prefer the sound over AIR. Although HZS has a special sound to it.


----------



## AndyP (Dec 22, 2020)

Symphobia's strings are among the ones I like best in timbre. This sound with more articulations, layers and round robins in sections would be a dream.

Also Con Moto, Hollywood Strings, VSL and some from 8Dio. The Ark4 Strings for smaller sections are also right up my alley.

In addition, I am very curious about the strings library of Sonokinetic, because I also like their strings very well. The Short Strings in Da Capo also sound very much to my taste.

It always depends on what I want to do


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 22, 2020)

cloudbuster said:


> If @Ashermusic would upload the midi of his comparison I would add an mp3 with the Da Capo strings for comparisons sake.



Here you go.


----------



## GtrString (Dec 22, 2020)

AndyP said:


> Symphobia's strings are among the ones I like best in timbre. This sound with more articulations, layers and round robins in sections would be a dream.
> 
> Also Con Moto, Hollywood Strings, VSL and some from 8Dio. The Ark4 Strings for smaller sections are also right up my alley.
> 
> ...



+1


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

cloudbuster said:


> Not quite, Sonokinetic's 'Da Capo' is a standard non-phrase orchestral ensemble library (Strings, Brass, WW, Perc.) and contains some of my favorite symphonic strings, next to BBCSO (notwithstanding the issues with the shorts in the latter one).



Hi @cloudbuster ,

Thanks for your interesting feedback. 

I didn't know that Sonoinetic's 'Da Capo' is a standard, non-phrase orchestral ensemble library. I will have to check it out  

You mentioned an issue with the BBCSO Shorts, what's the issue ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

AndyP said:


> Symphobia's strings are among the ones I like best in timbre. This sound with more articulations, layers and round robins in sections would be a dream.
> 
> Also Con Moto, Hollywood Strings, VSL and some from 8Dio. The Ark4 Strings for smaller sections are also right up my alley.
> 
> ...



Hi @AndyP ,

Thanks for your interesting post. 

I agree, ProjectSam's Strings have a wonderful timbre, I always wished that they release a dedicated Pro-Strings library. So far they haven't, but who know if they will one of these days. 

I'm going to check Da Capo, although it is not purely Strings. How are the other sections in the library, . Brass, Woodwinds ? 

One of the String libraries I like the timbre of is OT-Berlin Strings, and I would love to see them port it to their SINE player. Hopefully that will happens soon. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 22, 2020)

BTW, adding CSSS to CSS really does give it more definition and brightens the sound up a bit, for those who want that.


----------



## AJHnob (Dec 22, 2020)

Scalms said:


> Great thread, for me tone is number one priority, everything else is secondary. Tone can be tweaked but only so far. I’ve been on a strings hunt for a long time. I get an sense of awe every time I play HZ strings ( mic selection is key here).



Which mic selection for HZ do you use?


----------



## AndyP (Dec 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @AndyP ,
> 
> Thanks for your interesting post.
> 
> ...


Brass in Da Capo also has a very nice timbre. The woodwinds I find only mediocre while the flutes sound quite decent. The percussion is not too bad either. Da Capo is overall not bad in terms of sound, unfortunately very limited in terms of possibilities. I think I got Da Capo for 70 or 80 €, for which I find it very good.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

X-Bassist said:


> Tone-wise I like CSS, SCS, SSS, and for a classic film sound BHCT. Just bought Century Harps last night and am so disappointed that I won’t consider century strings, but Adagio Sordino still has a nice silky tone. But 8Dio never works on the patches to smooth out the playability, like SCS or CSS.
> 
> But everything changed with the Afflatus half off sale. Again, the selection of great tones is one aspect, the playability is another. Someone worked on the patches extensively, which makes them play, esp with poly legato, a dream. The Entire string section plays so nicely (with ensemble and separate sections) that I never want to buy another string library without poly-legato. Even the Vintage patches are beautiful. Large size and small chamber sections, it’s xpensive but covers a lot. Even at half price it’s the most I’ve spent on a string library, and I probably have 2 dozen, but I don’t regret it.😁



Hi @X-Bassist ,

Thank You for contributing to this topic. 

It's sad that 8dio Century Strings don't have richer, fuller timbre to them. Some of their other libraries have a much better timbre. 

Afflatus is an amazing strings library, I agree. Great timbre, and playability, I haven't put much time discovering it, but from the short amount of time I spent with it, I was very impressed. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

AndyP said:


> Brass in Da Capo also has a very nice timbre. The woodwinds I find only mediocre while the flutes sound quite decent. The percussion is not too bad either. Da Capo is overall not bad in terms of sound, unfortunately very limited in terms of possibilities. I think I got Da Capo for 70 or 80 €, for which I find it very good.



Thanks for the feedback. 

I'm really looking forward to Sonokinetic's upcoming Strings Library !


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Musicsculp, can you point to an example of a real strings recording that has the timbre you are wanting?



Hi @Ashermusic,

That's not an easy question 

Why ? well.. Basically I don't have one specific optimal timbre for strings, it depends on the charter of the strings, i.e . Symphonic, Chamber, Solo, Quartet, Modern, Period, Cinematic, ..etc.

I will try to post some examples of some of the Strings timbres I fancy, although... I will have to spend some time finding them.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Scalms (Dec 22, 2020)

AJHnob said:


> Which mic selection for HZ do you use?


honestly really depends on what I'm writing. If I want distant ambience, then I add some outriggers, gallery or ambience, or some combination thereof. But for most writing I do usually involves adding a fair amount of close mics. 

One of the biggest criticisms I've heard about HZS is that it's synthy sounding. But Spitfire gives you multiple close and spot mics per section, and they all vary a little, so you get some nice flexibility there. So usually I have Tree/Outriggers to get the wide AIR space, and Close/Spots combo to get the definition.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

Scalms said:


> One of the biggest criticisms I've heard about HZS is that it's synthy sounding.



Does it sound synthy to you ?


----------



## Old Timer (Dec 22, 2020)

I wish I could afford one of the bigger libraries. Spitfire Chamber Strings has always looked and sounded great - call me shallow but I like the yellow colour too. But Berlin Strings intrigue me. I'm sure either would be brilliant. I'm not good enough at string arrangements to warrant either and I make do with Albion Loegria and LASS, which I sometimes double up to get a mix of silky and edgy...


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## Cinebient (Dec 22, 2020)

For me its a solo cello because the included sustains are the most interesting i heard yet in a sample library also.
Its Emotional Cello (but i still prefer the older version, means pre 1.5).
Then, call me crazy, i dig really some string timbres from iSymphonic which is an iOS app i sampled into Logic sampler.
I also have several from Spitfire (like Studio Strings Pro, HZS, Albion 5 and a few more), some others but often prefer simpler one but with unique and more detailed timbres.
I also love especially Heavyocity Novo Rhythmic Textures. 
There are many good ones and i learned that its not always the 100+GB libraries which can shine (for my taste at least).
I also like The Orchestra since its also a bit larger but still very dry recording, where the timbre is raw which i like and gives me a lot room for further processing.


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## Scalms (Dec 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Does it sound synthy to you ?


Not to me. not sure why some say this, but I don't think they experimented enough with the mics


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## cloudbuster (Dec 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Here you go.


Thanks Ashermusic, here come the Da Capo Violins (Decca mics, zero FX):


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## Ashermusic (Dec 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Ashermusic,
> 
> That's not an easy question
> 
> ...




I am confused. You say you don't hear what you want and yet to cannot describe or easily show an example.

Not attacking you, but is it possible you don't really know what you want, other than in some vague way?


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## Ashermusic (Dec 22, 2020)

cloudbuster said:


> Thanks Ashermusic, here come the Da Capo Violins (Decca mics, zero FX):




They sound a bit thin and reed-y to my ear.


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## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I am confused. You say you don't hear what you want and yet to cannot describe or easily show an example.
> 
> Not attacking you, but is it possible you don't really know what you want, other than in some vague way?



I'm not confused, I know what I like, finding it is not something I can do that fast.

I will try my best to find some examples, give me some time


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## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

@Ashermusic ,

If you have some favorite string timbre music examples , please be my guest and post some here. (YouTube). 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## stfciu (Dec 22, 2020)

stfciu said:


> 8dio Agitato hands down together with and adagietto/adagio. It is a pity original adagio is not available anymore. I had adagietto and agitato sordinos for a long time and have bought rest of agitato line now. It is beautiful and very underrated library. Tonewise top notch for emotive lines. Anthology for me was an upgrade that is not actually an upgrade. They have simplified things yes but the sound is thin and the stereo image sounds bad. It is not adagio anymore for me. It shall be offered as separate product. Just my 2cents


8dio responded to me and offered and upgrade for both legacy Adagio and new Adagio versions (upgraded versions to ones that are in anthology). Great support I must say and very client friendly one. Big thumbs up.


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## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

stfciu said:


> 8dio responded to me and offered and upgrade for both legacy Adagio and new Adagio versions (upgraded versions to ones that are in anthology). Great support I must say and very client friendly one. Big thumbs up.



Hi @stfciu ,

That's great. 

8dio are very accommodating, and helpful as far as customer service, and satisfaction are concerned. 

Check the Divisi-Chamber sections of Anthology Strings, which were mentioned here on an earlier post by @Batrawi . They sound, and play wonderfully. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## José Herring (Dec 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> And once again, only because I love you, here is a comparison for timbre of every strings section I own Violins 1 and 2. I did omit Kirk Hunter's Virtuoso Ensembles, as they are similar to the Concert Strings 2 and Metropolis Ark 1 because their legato is in octaves. It is not a fair comparison in terms of the smoothness of the legatos or anything other than timbre, since the same MIDI is used for all, so just listen for their timbre. I added one of my favorite reverbs, newly re-discovered.


One of the best comparisons I've heard. So nice that you picked an actual melody. 

I'm very pleased with how some of the Afflatus patches did. And, I'm floored by Amadeus. Very nice sounding. 

Less pleased by some that others tend to praise never ending. I still don't hear it but they will remain unnamed as I'm no longer willing to talk negatively about products openly. 

Big surprise to me is that EWQLSO strings still sound rather nice. HS still a go to for me. It did well, can't wait for OPUS. 

LCO has a cool sound to it. Glad I got it. 

And, your verb choice is rather excellent. Works well on strings.

Kicking myself for not picking up Afflatus yet. I need to get it.


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## I like music (Dec 22, 2020)

While I don't use them (RAM and space limitations) Hollywood Strings are _right_ at the top for me in terms of timbre. I don't know what the guys did, but they captured a bit of magic sizzle when they recorded this library.


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## Robert_G (Dec 22, 2020)

CSS for main orchestra stuff
8Dio Century Strings for smaller to mid size orchestra.
Light & Sound for Chamber,
Best Service Emotional Series from Harmonic Subtones for solo.

And sometimes....just have to go Adagio from 8Dio because they sound awesome too.

I'd probably throw in Dimension strings as a competition for Century Strings, but I don't own Dimension Strings....but love how they sound.
I used to have HO Diamond. Really like the tone of them too.

Also love Afflatus Strings but don't own them either.


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## MrCambiata (Dec 22, 2020)

I'd like to achieve this strings sound, especially from 2:48 on...


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## Ashermusic (Dec 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> @Ashermusic ,
> 
> If you have some favorite string timbre music examples , please be my guest and post some here. (YouTube).
> 
> ...



I already have many times. most recently with Dave Grusin's charts for Sergio Mendez and Brasil '66. 

I like a number of them that are in my comparison example and frankly, could probably be very happy with any one or two of them.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 22, 2020)

MrCambiata said:


> I'd like to achieve this strings sound, especially from 2:48 on...




Hi @MrCambiata ,

Thanks for your post here, and for sharing with us the Strings Timbre you like. 

I listened to the strings from 2:48 up, and those sweeping shades of high-pitched romantic violin sweeps is a tough one for any Strings Library, actually, I don't recall hearing this type of timbre from any Strings Library. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Casiquire (Dec 22, 2020)

I like music said:


> While I don't use them (RAM and space limitations) Hollywood Strings are _right_ at the top for me in terms of timbre. I don't know what the guys did, but they captured a bit of magic sizzle when they recorded this library.


I think it's gorgeous but best for particular uses more than others which kept it from the top of my list, but it deserves a mention. And if you're not playing with the close+vintage, you're missing out! Beautiful vibrato and a somehow crisp but lush tone


----------



## pawelmorytko (Dec 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> BTW, adding CSSS to CSS really does give it more definition and brightens the sound up a bit, for those who want that.


This is my favourite combination, and I never use CSS without CSSS anymore.


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 22, 2020)

pawelmorytko said:


> This is my favourite combination, and I never use CSS without CSSS anymore.




They do really work well together.


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## pawelmorytko (Dec 22, 2020)

Fill that in with some low end from CS2 or something similar in a bigger hall, to help out the CSS basses and you have yourself a really nice sounding string section in my opinion


----------



## X-Bassist (Dec 22, 2020)

Old Timer said:


> I wish I could afford one of the bigger libraries. Spitfire Chamber Strings has always looked and sounded great - call me shallow but I like the yellow colour too. But Berlin Strings intrigue me. I'm sure either would be brilliant. I'm not good enough at string arrangements to warrant either and I make do with Albion Loegria and LASS, which I sometimes double up to get a mix of silky and edgy...


Different top libraries have different tones that each work well, probably better to get really good with one or two libraries than to have too many choices (like me) and not master them.

But in the context of a song or score, it may have more to do with "does it help?" the scene or song.


----------



## JonS (Dec 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Which String Library (Sections, not Solo) do you think has the best *Timbre* quality for your taste ?
> 
> ...


Love the tone of SSS, HZS, Albion Neo, Synchron Strings I, and SStS Pro.


----------



## ism (Dec 22, 2020)

Hmm, I appreciate all these examples. But I wonder if it’s really possible to talk about string libraries purely in terms of timbre? Might the whole not be more that the sum of its parts?

Demos at a single dynamics for instance - well, one of the most wonderful things about strings is the of the effect of the changing timbre with dynamics. So a library’s qualities of change in timbre’ is as always (I would argue) at least as important as a static concept of timbre.And timbre doesn’t just change, with dynamics. But also phrasing, bowing technique, the nuance in performance in the progressive vibrato. And the way all these things echo around the hall. All of these higher order effects are also about timbre. 

The da cappo string, for instance, are far from dry, but that sound kind of irritating without some late reflection reverb. An even more extreme example would be Spitfire Studio strings, which are even dryer (though not particularly dry by, say, VSL standards). The timbre without some reverb isn’t to my taste at all. But with some really it really starts to breathe. So how either of these libraries sound ‘out of the box’ is completely irrelevant to how I understand their respective lovlinesses of timbre that would make me reach for them at different moments.

Similarly, using the same, static midi data across multiple libraries, isn’t really a ‘neutral choice’, it privileges libraries like CSS or 8dio that have more performance baked into them (when people praise the CSS legato, I sometimes think they actually mean the performances baked in the larger arcs of the notes as a whole, which, being an especially high romantic aesthetic, are especially dynamics as compared to other, less romantic, styles . All of which affects perception of timbre ). So far from being neutral, this really hurts libraries like Light and Sound, which are designed to require a bit of performance to bring our the overall dynamic effect of their dynamics in string timbre loveliness (where L&S, for example, after a tiny little learning curve, can blow away libraries, even if they sound better ‘out of the box’). 

I guess I just think that the notion of ‘string timbre’ is such a richly dynamic concept, that impacts on out very dynamic concpets of perception (involving far more that the mathematical concept of ‘timbre’) that I think it can be highly misleading, especially to newbies, to try to simplify evaluation on this single dimension of ‘timbre’. (Ie. with static midi data)

(And perhaps I’m also a little sensitive on this issue, as started out by investing way, way too much money in 8dio libraries that in retrospect I was never going to enjoy very much, and have got almost no use out of, in significant part because I simply didn’t understand all of these dimension of timbre and string sampling, and didn’t know how to critically evaluate the demos).


----------



## X-Bassist (Dec 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @X-Bassist ,
> 
> Thank You for contributing to this topic.
> 
> ...


After working for 2 different developers I was surprised to find out how little some care (or think the customer cares) about playability. Yes, I can tell there are a few developers that do, and put the time into the patches after the sampling, editing, and programming is done.

But I think many developers get anxious about releasing after they've put in all this money and long days into planning, recording, editing, programming and debugging. But building properly balanced and playable patches is an essential step before release. Playing and tweaking the patches (dynamic layers, crossfades, levels, etc) makes a big difference in the final product and shows in those companies that put the work in.

I still think 8Dio could take this step a little more seriously. Much of it is simple levels or dynamic layers that are not matching, stuff that could be tweaked more.


----------



## muk (Dec 23, 2020)

For me, this is always a reference recording regarding strings:



Fantastic playing, gorgeous timbres, perfect balance. And the recording is just faultless. Such a nice width. The sections are clearly defined in the stereo image, and still blend perfectly. Last but not least, it has just the right amount of ambience for my taste.


----------



## stfciu (Dec 23, 2020)

muk said:


> For me, this is always a reference recording regarding strings:
> 
> 
> 
> Fantastic playing, gorgeous timbres, perfect balance. And the recording is just faultless. Such a nice width. The sections are clearly defined in the stereo image, and still blend perfectly. Last but not least, it has just the right amount of ambience for my taste.



This may be a hint for some developer where produce next library and who should be hired for this


----------



## muk (Dec 23, 2020)

stfciu said:


> This may be a hint for some developer where produce next library and who should be hired for this



Good luck with that! It would be awesome of course, but I can't imagine that it's possible. Must be way too expensive.


----------



## Vik (Dec 23, 2020)

muk said:


> For me, this is always a reference recording regarding strings:
> 
> 
> 
> Fantastic playing, gorgeous timbres, perfect balance. And the recording is just faultless. Such a nice width. The sections are clearly defined in the stereo image, and still blend perfectly. Last but not least, it has just the right amount of ambience for my taste.



The sound is brilliant, but that's one of the smaller versions of that ensemble – I would have preferred a few extra players.


----------



## CT (Dec 24, 2020)

muk said:


> For me, this is always a reference recording regarding strings:



Really nice, though a bit violin heavy for me. Some of my favorites are also unfortunately in YouTube quality.


----------



## constaneum (Dec 24, 2020)

I have to say I'm very fond with SSS' close mic.


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 28, 2021)

Hi,

Nice to visit this topic again in 2021.

I was testing Spitfire Chamber Strings Pro, using the J.J. (F), (M), (L) mixes.

My favorite is the (F) mix, adding some High-Quality Algorithmic Reverb to taste, and it sounds awesome, also saves me lots of RAM, and it's simple to setup.

So, this could be a tip for those using SCS Pro. Give it a try, and let me know what you think.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp (May 3, 2021)

Hi,

Listen to the Strings, and their unique rich, warm timbre, and romantic character in this Henry Mancini Track from his score for the movie 'Sunflower'

i.e. Strings in the track : 'Love Theme Sunflower'

I wonder how they achieved this unique strings sound in the recording of the orchestra ? and if this type of character can be achieved with Strings libraries we have at our disposal today, which one/s would be able to emulate these Strings ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp





Here is the full soundtrack :


----------



## AEF (May 4, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Nice to visit this topic again in 2021.
> 
> ...


Ive agreed with every post of yours in this thread, and this one is no exception. I really really like JJs mixes in SCS Pro. 

Theres something about NSS that is very appealing to me as well, I love the room it's in.


----------



## Mike Fox (May 4, 2021)

CS2 for longs
Afflatus for shorts

.....for now.


----------



## muziksculp (May 4, 2021)

AEF said:


> Ive agreed with every post of yours in this thread, and this one is no exception. I really really like JJs mixes in SCS Pro.
> 
> Theres something about NSS that is very appealing to me as well, I love the room it's in.


Hi @AEF,

I'm glad that you are finding this thread/topic to be a useful, and interesting, and that my posts have some value. 

I don't have NSS, but heard some demos, and it is a nice sounding Strings Library. But for now, I'm more excited about the upcoming Sonokinetic Strings library, which is expected this month, I'm optimistic that it will have a wonderful sound/timbre, and other cool features, including Divis-Sections.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Scalms (May 4, 2021)

Scalms said:


> Great thread, for me tone is number one priority, everything else is secondary. Tone can be tweaked but only so far. I’ve been on a strings hunt for a long time. I get an sense of awe every time I play HZ strings ( mic selection is key here). And I’ve just acquired Berlin Strings which I feel has my ideal tone (clarity,depth, and power, even for smaller section)


I'm replying to my past self and revising my favorite strings timbre.

It is now BSS.


----------



## muziksculp (May 4, 2021)

Scalms said:


> I'm replying to my past self and revising my favorite strings timbre.
> 
> It is now BSS.


Hi @Scalms,

Thanks for your feedback. 

I have BSS, and love the timbre of these large Symphonic Strings from OT. 

I just wish they improve the first and second violins by offering a molto-vibrato option, and fix the SINE player Mic-Merge features, and some other minor sample issue, and fixes. I especially love the Violas, and Celli of BSS. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp (May 4, 2021)

I'm also looking forward to see OT-Berlin Strings, improved, and polished, and running in SINE.


----------



## Scalms (May 4, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Scalms,
> 
> Thanks for your feedback.
> 
> ...


I hear ya, 

I love the subtle vibrato, but certainly wouldn't mind the molto vibrato. I'd bet anything OT will bring that at some point with all the talk about it in this forum. Although it took them years to bring the Berlin Brass FFF layer, but we'll wait! hurry up @OrchestralTools!


----------



## AEF (May 4, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @AEF,
> 
> I'm glad that you are finding this thread/topic to be a useful, and interesting, and that my posts have some value.
> 
> ...


The sonokinetic library really interests me too bc I love their phrase based strings sound. Can't wait to hear the first demos/walkthroughs whenever they arrive.


----------



## Trash Panda (May 4, 2021)

I have yet to find string samples that can do this effectively.

The dry libraries are too bright/“chorusy” and the darker libraries are too wet. Even dark as midnight CSS can’t seem to pull this off. The rhythmic opening bass/celli ostinato has this balance of attack and smoothness that seems impossible to reproduce. The latter half of the song has shorts that are super aggressive, but have zero ambience. I wonder if there is some aggressive gating going on in addition to con sordinos and measured tremolo.




That being said, my favorite timbre are Audio Imperia because they just effortlessly cut through aggressive metal guitars without breaking a sweat. For film scores, Hollywood Strings is hard to beat.


----------



## Living Fossil (May 4, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> i.e. Strings in the track : 'Love Theme Sunflower'
> 
> I wonder how they achieved this unique strings sound in the recording of the orchestra ? and if this type of character can be achieved with Strings libraries we have at our disposal today, which one/s would be able to emulate these Strings ?
> 
> ...



Honestly, i think this is one example that shows why real humans are still needed. 

First, the whole arrangement is brilliant. 
Second, the musicians interact with the music.
They aren't just playing "vibrato"; they are playing a vibrato in accordance to a specific phrase in a specific context.
I'm glad that this area exists, where samples are far from reproducing things that musicians can deliver.

My concern is that the amount of people who can distinct these qualities and request them will vanish into oblivion quite soon. 
Traditions don't die because they aren't people who can reproduce them but rather because the bigger part of the audience is accustomed to cheap surrogates to a degree where they prefer them.


----------



## muziksculp (May 4, 2021)

Living Fossil said:


> They aren't just playing "vibrato"; they are playing a vibrato in accordance to a specific phrase in a specific context.


So True ! 

This is what I find missing in many String Libraries today.

They have Vibrato, and some way to control it, but their Vibrato still sounds mechanical, fake, lacking emotion, expression. Basically, lacking the human emotional dimension. 

The human emotion, and touch that is clearly heard in the Sunflower track I posted above.

I think this is something that might change when Physically Modelled Strings become more capable in terms of their timbre, and offer more direct human control over the Vibrato Characteristics. I doubt very much that traditional sample libraries will be able to achieve this level of expressive Vibrato.


----------



## ZeeCount (May 4, 2021)

Having gone through a lot of string libraries, I've settled on Berlin Strings, Performance Samples Vista, and Cinematic Studio Strings as my go to string libraries.

Berlin Strings seems to just have the right about of brightness to cut through but body and depth in the sound. The mics are also really flexible in terms of shaping the sound.


----------



## constaneum (May 4, 2021)

i have to say my favourites are SSS (for symphony size) , CS2+CSSS (for alternative symphony size) and CSS (for studio size)


----------



## JGRaynaud (May 5, 2021)

So far I'd say CSS and Vista depending of the style of the track I write. 
I like anything that can get me closer to this kind of sound:


----------



## muziksculp (May 5, 2021)

JGRaynaud said:


> So far I'd say CSS and Vista depending of the style of the track I write.
> I like anything that can get me closer to this kind of sound:



My first impression was Vista is very similar to CSS, Maybe that's not the case, so .. What does Vista offer sonically that's different from CSS ? Are they very different ?


----------



## Saxer (May 5, 2021)

Still looking for *that* string sound:


----------



## JGRaynaud (May 5, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> My first impression was Vista is very similar to CSS, Maybe that's not the case, so .. What does Vista offer sonically that's different from CSS ? Are they very different ?


They are really different. The way life is captured is really different. Vista is brighter, and sounds like something captured in a hall, while CSS has a darker tone, less vibrato in the high dynamics and has a studio sound (I guess the "Studio" in the name of the library explains everything  ). Overall CSS has less life in its sound to my ears but that's subjective of course.

Vista is usually my go to library because it suits more my writing and the kind of stuff I compose. I like a classical soaring sound like the track I linked just above, and I always prefered a hall sound to a studio sound. However I'm also using CSS especially when I need less vibrato (and if I need a senza vibrato I only use CSS of course).

Just before Vista got released I made a little comparison between CSS and Vista, using the demo track I made for Vista. You can hear pretty well the difference between the two and I think you'll hear the differences I'm talking about in this example, especially the difference of bright/dark tone and hall/studio. The "it has more life to my ears" is subjective but the other points aren't and I think you'll hear that pretty easily.

I also place big hopes in the next Performance Samples release "Pacific". I can't judge it for now because I didn't put my hands on it yet, but I liked what I've heard so far.


----------



## holywilly (May 5, 2021)

My current favorite is the combination of Elite and Synchron Strings Pro. Enable 2 solo mics of Elite to enhance the details of string performance, and let the Synchron Strings Pro to bring the lushness and beautiful ambiance of Synchron Stage. Also, adding BSS to the league actually bring the liveness of the sound, love how dirty the BSS is!


----------



## molemac (May 5, 2021)

My current fav is Elite for sculpting detail combined with scs for a bit more lush air studio room . The long Elite violins on their own sound a bit thin and phasey .


----------



## AudioLoco (May 5, 2021)

For tone Vista.
If Vista had every single articulation instead of only one it would be the GOAT for me.

Second place Spitfire Symphonic


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow (May 5, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Interesting that you bring up Cornucopia 2, this library was recommended to me by other members on this forum a while back, I was interested in trying to get the vibe of the strings in _Basil Poledouris_ Score for *Conan The Barbarian*, I love that score, and it's unique sonic character.


Thanks for drawing my attention to this score! I haven’t seen the movie in years, so this was totally off my radar. Did you end up getting Cornucopia 2?


----------



## Dave Connor (May 5, 2021)

I don’t know if any string library can quite nail the large classical/romantic ensemble sound as well as Hollywood Strings. At 3:50 (or even 3:05.)








Now And Then


Short strings are Spitfire. Legatos are EW Hollywood Diamond




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## RMH (May 5, 2021)

This thread is very interesting.

Before I knew it, I became a string collector.🤣
I'm still working on the instruments, and I'm planning to use them all in some way. It's my personal opinion from now on, so just keep that in mind.

Spitfire
Studio Strings - Available in the chamber at maximum symphonic scale. This instrument is perfect when you want a dry note. The problem is that the amount of vibrato is too small. If SCS had been released as a dry source like SStS, it would not have been better.

Chamber Strings - pronouns for agility! And I really like the sound of the instrument. On a small scale, it fits well with the fast Japanese style of music where string instruments need to be well revealed.

BBCSO Pro - what to say! It's a lot of fun to get a new sound from Mike's combinations. My favorite on the symphonic scale!

8dio
Intimate Studio Strings
It's a string that feels different from a spitfire.
Turn the microphone knob to mix the close and the far properly, and there's no sound more interesting than this. Too bad you can't control Vibrato!
It's an instrument worth researching.

Century Strings 2
Oh! this is a lovely instrument! It's also an instrument that I look for first when arranging in a pop style. Properly rough sound, smooth string runs are attractive instruments. It feels similar to the CSS, but it has a much brighter tone.

Anthology
It has the darkest tone among 8dio's string libraries. At least that's what it sounds like to me. It sounds pretty big. The downside is that there aren't many state laws. And Portamento's turning point is too fast. I haven't played this instrument the most.

Cinematic Studio Strings
Yes, this instrument! There will be no one without this instrument! It's basic to feel dark and heavy, and foggy. The name already tells me everything. But if you change the combination of microphones a little bit, you will meet another world. The instrument that I love the most!

VSL
Synchron Strings Pro
The first impression sounded like a tone somewhere between the chamber and the symphony. If the BBC feels a bigger symphony, SSP feels like it's playing in a smaller hall. It's a bit light and has a bright sound. It's an instrument I recently encountered, so I'm still studying it.

Synchron Elite Strings
If you're thinking about chamber sound, you can trust this instrument. SCS is a live sound with four players, and Vienna is a little more refined and tidy than that. If you have both, I think you can mix them properly and see the effect. There must be a difference of taste.

Unfortunately, I didn't buy OT, EW, Performance Sample, or Cinesample etc... because it's not my type of instrument.


----------



## muziksculp (May 5, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Thanks for drawing my attention to this score! I haven’t seen the movie in years, so this was totally off my radar. Did you end up getting Cornucopia 2?


Hi, 

Yes, I got Cornucopia 2, but unfortunately I haven't used it much. I need to give it some attention when possible, I have too many string libraries, sometimes some of them just sit around doing nothing 

Talking about the Conan the Barbarian Soundtrack, I was a bit surprised, that both Apple Music, and Amazon Music do not have the Basil Poledouris CTB soundtrack, it only exists on YouTube. I wonder why ? Anyone know why ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## darcvision (May 5, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I have yet to find string samples that can do this effectively.
> 
> The dry libraries are too bright/“chorusy” and the darker libraries are too wet. Even dark as midnight CSS can’t seem to pull this off. The rhythmic opening bass/celli ostinato has this balance of attack and smoothness that seems impossible to reproduce. The latter half of the song has shorts that are super aggressive, but have zero ambience. I wonder if there is some aggressive gating going on in addition to con sordinos and measured tremolo.
> 
> ...



bloodborne ost recorded in air studio, maybe you could achieve it using spitfire library


----------



## muziksculp (May 5, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> For tone Vista.
> If Vista had every single articulation instead of only one it would be the GOAT for me.
> 
> Second place Spitfire Symphonic


Maybe the upcoming Perfomance Samples Voyage Strings will offer the multiple articulations, and great legato that Vista offers, with similar tone/timbre.


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow (May 5, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Talking about the Conan the Barbarian Soundtrack, I was a bit surprised, that both Apple Music, and Amazon Music do not have the Basil Poledouris CTB soundtrack, it only exists on YouTube. I wonder why ? Anyone know why ?


It’s on Spotify as well.


----------



## muziksculp (May 5, 2021)

Hi @DimensionsTomorrow ,

Thanks for the feedback. 

I'm in the U.S. so the player link you posted gives me can't play in your country message on Spotify. 

It is available on the U.S. spotify as well. 

But, I'm still puzzled why it's not available in iTunes Music, and Amazon Music ?


----------



## muziksculp (May 5, 2021)

Here is the U.S. Spotify version. Conan The Barbarian By Basil Poledouris is one of my favorite scores.

But, I can't seem to play any of the tracks ! Very strange.

I don't think it is available on Spotify in the U.S. Only available on YouTube.


----------



## IdealSequenceG (May 5, 2021)

I like 8Dio's Marcato Legato sound all the time.


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> For tone Vista.
> If Vista had every single articulation instead of only one it would be the GOAT for me.


Maybe Performance Samples VOYGAGE will have similar strings to what Vista offers, but with multi articulations. I think VOYAGE is due later this year.

I didn't buy VISTA, although it is on sale right now until May 14th, at $249. , but still thinking about getting it, or I will just wait for VOYAGE .


----------



## Mrmonkey (May 7, 2021)

Currently: Hans Zimmer strings


----------



## borisb2 (May 7, 2021)

JGRaynaud said:


> They are really different. The way life is captured is really different. Vista is brighter, and sounds like something captured in a hall, while CSS has a darker tone, less vibrato in the high dynamics and has a studio sound (I guess the "Studio" in the name of the library explains everything  ). Overall CSS has less life in its sound to my ears but that's subjective of course.
> 
> Vista is usually my go to library because it suits more my writing and the kind of stuff I compose. I like a classical soaring sound like the track I linked just above, and I always prefered a hall sound to a studio sound. However I'm also using CSS especially when I need less vibrato (and if I need a senza vibrato I only use CSS of course).
> 
> ...


Beautiful writing - to me CSS sounds more realistic here. Vista has a tendency in the upper register to sound a bit like angry bees that hunt you down 😋


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

I love CS2 with CSSS. Also CSS with CSSS, not a huge fan of VISTA.


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## RMH (May 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I love CS2 with CSSS. Also CSS with CSSS, not a huge fan of VISTA.


I wonder what CS2 is like, too!

By the way, in the introduction, you're using Studio One. How are you using the CSS legato delay?


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

RMH said:


> I wonder what CS2 is like, too!



Here is a short CS2 + CSSS Legato demo (The Portamento you hear is from CSSS, CS2 doesn't have Portamento legato transitions, but they blend nicely here, and sound unified). 

View attachment CS2 + CSSS Legato Test.mp3


Here is a short CS2 + CSSS Spicatto demo (Played in real time, no editing)

View attachment CS2 + CSSS Spicc Test.mp3




RMH said:


> By the way, in the introduction, you're using Studio One. How are you using the CSS legato delay?



I'm not sure what are you referring to ? what introduction ? demo ?


----------



## RMH (May 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Here is a short CS2 + CSSS Legato demo
> 
> View attachment CS2 + CSSS Legato Test.mp3
> 
> ...







It's your information item. I don't know how to set this up.

Oh, my question was how to adjust the notes when there is a legato delay in piano roll. I'd like to update to 5.2 soon and use it.

P.S I think it's softer and warmer than CSS. Thank you for the demo!


----------



## AudioLoco (May 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Maybe Performance Samples VOYGAGE will have similar strings to what Vista offers, but with multi articulations. I think VOYAGE is due later this year.
> 
> I didn't buy VISTA, although it is on sale right now until May 14th, at $249. , but still thinking about getting it, or I will just wait for VOYAGE .


I can't stop using it! aaaaargh! 
Parts come out so easily and naturally when writing with Vista for me... A bit finnicky with the mod wheel sometimes I have to say, but well worth the little quick extra work.

If Voyage is similar in that respect i would say you could wait and see/hear if it can substitute Vista or they will be complementary.


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

RMH said:


> It's your information item. I don't know how to set this up.
> 
> Oh, my question was how to adjust the notes when there is a legato delay in piano roll. I'd like to update to 5.2 soon and use it.
> 
> P.S I think it's softer and warmer than CSS. Thank you for the demo!


I think The easiest way to deal with legato delays is to set all the velocities to one value, and then set the track negative delay according to the velocity you used, low velocities require longer delay times, higher velocities require shorter delay times, I don't remember the exact neg-delay values for the tracks, but they should be easy to find in the CSS manual, or on this forum. I think there is a database of negative delay values for many libraries in a forum topic.

If you want to have a longer legato transition between two notes, then lower the velocity, and just manually nudge the note until it sounds on the beat. 

Other options are possible by using Kontakt scripts, but I don't like using this option. 

Finally, you can also try playing the legato a bit ahead of the beat so you compensate in real time, this requires a bit of practicing to play this way, but there are quite a few users of CSS that have mastered this technique.


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> I can't stop using it! aaaaargh!
> Parts come out so easily and naturally when writing with Vista for me... A bit finnicky with the mod wheel sometimes I have to say, but well worth the little quick extra work.
> 
> If Voyage is similar in that respect i would say you could wait and see/hear if it can substitute Vista or they will be complementary.


Cool ! There are lots of Vista fans. 

I'm glad Vista is working great for you, I'm still thinking about getting it. But, knowing that Voyage will also be out later this year, is not making it easy to decide. I wish I had more info. about Voyage Strings, the size of the ensembles, price, etc.


----------



## RMH (May 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I think The easiest way to deal with legato delays is to set all the velocities to one value, and then set the track negative delay according to the velocity you used, low velocities require longer delay times, higher velocities require shorter delay times, I don't remember the exact neg-delay values for the tracks, but they should be easy to find in the CSS manual, or on this forum. I think there is a database of negative delay values for many libraries in a forum topic.
> 
> If you want to have a longer legato transition between two notes, then lower the velocity, and just manually nudge the note until it sounds on the beat.
> 
> ...


I often use this method, too! It's okay if it's just a simple performance, but when it gets a little complicated, it makes my fingers look like a fool 🤣. Cubase has a logical editor, Logic pro is somehow available with an iPad application, but I don't know if S1 is possible.


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

RMH said:


> I often use this method, too! It's okay if it's just a simple performance, but when it gets a little complicated, it makes my fingers look like a fool 🤣. Cubase has a logical editor, Logic pro is somehow available with an iPad application, but I don't know if S1 is possible.


I don't know if Cubase users are successfully able to use the logical editor to deal with the various CSS delay values, but if that's working for them, that's a cool feature to have, I remember it being a bit complex to setup. I used to use Cubase, but only use Studio One Pro 5 now. 

At this point, Studio One Pro 5.2.1 does not offer more complex midi editing/input tools, so maybe it will offer this type of logical input/editing in the future. You can still use Kontakt Scripts that deal with CSS delays, in any DAW, I also think that Alex W. of Cinematic Studio Libraries will be updating CSS with more Legato options, that might make using this library easier, and still deliver great legato results.  I think the update was supposed to be out soon, but so far nothing has materialized. So, we just have to wait and see, he also mentioned a runs feature that will be added to the library in the upcoming update.


----------



## RMH (May 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> he also mentioned a runs feature that will be added to the library in the upcoming update.


Oh, yes! I waiting for.
I informed you that the update process is slow because the contents exchanged by e-mail are in progress while bugfixing WW and Brass. I'm just waiting.

I just found it on YouTube, and there is a possibility that this free delay plug-in will be useful.

https://bakuage.com/en/vst/


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

RMH said:


> Oh, yes! I waiting for.
> I informed you that the update process is slow because the contents exchanged by e-mail are in progress while bugfixing WW and Brass. I'm just waiting.
> 
> I just found it on YouTube, and there is a possibility that this free delay plug-in will be useful.
> ...



The Negative-Track delay feature in Studio One Pro 5.2 works fine, this video was about an older version of S1 that had the negative delay issue not working properly, the video is from last year, I think it was fixed in version 5.1 this year.


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

@RMH ,

Are you using Studio One Pro 5 ? or Cubase, or ... ?


----------



## RMH (May 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> @RMH ,
> 
> Are you using Studio One Pro 5 ? or Cubase, or ... ?


The main daw is a logic pro. I'm having a hard time editing the kiss switch and string part, so I'm going to test it using other daw.

I like Logic because it has a pretty and familiar interface, but there are some things that seem to be disadvantages. For example, plug-ins don't completely off.


----------



## Trash Panda (May 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> The Negative-Track delay feature in Studio One Pro 5.2 works fine, this video was about an older version of S1 that had the negative delay issue not working properly, the video is from last year, I think it was fixed in version 5.1 this year.


I wish this were true. :(


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I wish this were true. :(


What's the problem are you experiencing ? Please post your remarks in the DAW section of the forum.

I would like to keep this thread on topic, so if you have further DAW related issues, questions, ..etc. please post them in the DAW section of this forum.

Thanks.


----------



## Trash Panda (May 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> What's the problem are you experiencing ? Please post your remarks in the DAW section of the forum.
> 
> I would like to keep this thread on topic, so if you have further DAW related issues, questions, ..etc. please post them in the DAW section of this forum.
> 
> Thanks.


Already did. Thanks.


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

Performance Samples *Vista* is on sale for $249. until May 16th. 

I have CSS, and CSSS, and CS2. So I thought Vista will be an overkill since all of the other I mentioned have very nice timbres, and legato. 

Then I watched this YT video of D.James, using vista, I cued the video at the point where he compares Vista with Spitfire Chamber Strings, and CSS. 

I think Vista will be discontinued, so, it's something to consider.

What do you think about Vista, is it worth getting for it's timbre, and legato, even if one has the other libraries I mentioned ? or do you think I'm just having a bit of GAS for another Strings Library ?  

Here is the D.James video, he plays Vista then shows Spitfire Chamber Strings, then CSS :


----------



## Toecutter (May 7, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I think Vista will be discontinued, so, it's something to consider.


Really, this soon? You heard that from Performance Samples?

There's a freebie you can try, after playing with it back in December my impressions were: noisy, transitions are very inconsistent and lack any sort of variation, limiting the use. It was very disappointing because I really like the tone, but not enough to pay $250 for a legato only library with the issues I experienced.

If Sonokinetic's strings sound as good as their phrase-based stuff and feel like a 2021 library (meaning comprehensive articulation list, impeccable editing and programming) it will probably be the last string library I will buy... this semester.


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Really, this soon? You heard that from Performance Samples?
> 
> There's a freebie you can try, after playing with it back in December my impressions were: noisy, transitions are very inconsistent and lack any sort of variation, limiting the use. It was very disappointing because I really like the tone, but not enough to pay $250 for a legato only library with the issues I experienced.
> 
> If Sonokinetic's strings sound as good as their phrase-based stuff and feel like a 2021 library (meaning comprehensive articulation list, impeccable editing and programming) it will probably be the last string library I will buy... this semester.


Thanks for your interesting feedback.

Sorry, I might have been wrong about Vista getting discontinued, I think I confused it with Con Moto. Which I think is already discontinued. Maybe Vista will be around, but if someone knows more about this detail, please let us know.

Yes, $249. is still a lot for a legato only library, and that's a discounted price ! but it is the quality of the library that is being sold, not the number of articulations, this a niche application library, if you don't think you need it, don't bother, otherwise, evaluate it carefully, that's what I'm trying to do. I usually don't like using freebie samples to test a library, there is always some compromise in them, so I wouldn't judge the library based on the free samples.

Would love to hear more feedback from Vista users, and how they are using this library. Mostly for layering ? or using it without any layering for legato lines, or .... ?

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp (May 7, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> If Sonokinetic's strings sound as good as their phrase-based stuff and feel like a 2021 library (meaning comprehensive articulation list, impeccable editing and programming) it will probably be the last string library I will buy... this semester.


 

Also very excited about the upcoming Sonokinetic Strings Library. Waiting for it to show up since April. 

Hopefully it will be out soon.


----------



## artinro (May 8, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Sorry, I might have been wrong about Vista getting discontinued, I think I confused it with Con Moto. Which I think is already discontinued. Maybe Vista will be around, but if someone knows more about this detail, please let us know.


I asked Jasper. Vista isn’t going to be discontinued.


----------



## Evans (May 8, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Here is the D.James video, he plays Vista then shows Spitfire Chamber Strings, then CSS :


Good video from Daniel James. I appreciate it when he hops around various libraries.

Funny enough, this reminds me of some personal taste issues I have with Vista. I think both SCS and CSS individually sound more pleasing when playing that one comparison track in isolation.

When the full project plays together, the tone that I dislike from Vista gets hidden well enough.

Again, just a personal taste thing.


----------



## holywilly (May 8, 2021)

My favorite legato strings is OT’s Berlin strings special bows’ sul tasto legato, so smooth, tender and exquisite.


----------



## AEF (May 8, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Performance Samples *Vista* is on sale for $249. until May 16th.
> 
> I have CSS, and CSSS, and CS2. So I thought Vista will be an overkill since all of the other I mentioned have very nice timbres, and legato.
> 
> ...



Vista is OK but I think its older sibling Con Moto is superior.


----------



## muziksculp (May 8, 2021)

AEF said:


> Vista is OK but I think its older sibling Con Moto is superior.


I read the opposite opinion as well. I guess it boils down to personal taste.


----------



## muziksculp (May 8, 2021)

holywilly said:


> My favorite legato strings is OT’s Berlin strings special bows’ sul tasto legato, so smooth, tender and exquisite.


I need to check them out in more detail. (THANKS). 

I'm also looking forward to see Berlin Strings released in SINE format. I wonder if they are close to releasing it ?


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## muziksculp (May 8, 2021)

artinro said:


> I asked Jasper. Vista isn’t going to be discontinued.


Thanks.


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## holywilly (May 8, 2021)

The Berlin strings offer different legato attack via key velocity, wondering how are OT gonna transplant this feature into SINE. Timbre wise, I anticipate the SINE version of Berlin strings.


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## muziksculp (May 8, 2021)

holywilly said:


> The Berlin strings offer different legato attack via key velocity, wondering how are OT gonna transplant this feature into SINE. Timbre wise, I anticipate the SINE version of Berlin strings.


I guess since SINE is totally under their control, and they can add any features to it as they wish, they can easily add it to SINE. 

@holywilly, Do you have Vista ? if Yes, what are your thoughts about it, do you find it useful, worth buying it at the discount price ? 

Thanks.


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## holywilly (May 8, 2021)

@muziksculp 
Yes I do have vista. I like the warm tone of this library, I used it a lot before VSL released the Elite strings. Having a legato only string library is quite limited, there are many libraries that offer more than vista. It’s nice to have for collection, for practical use, there are other libraries that offer more.


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## muziksculp (May 8, 2021)

holywilly said:


> @muziksculp
> Yes I do have vista. I like the warm tone of this library, I used it a lot before VSL released the Elite strings. Having a legato only string library is quite limited, there are many libraries that offer more than vista. It’s nice to have for collection, for practical use, there are other libraries that offer more.


Thanks @holywilly .

So, you think VSL Elite Strings Legatos have a similar warm tone to Vista ? 

If that's the case, I think I will just skip Vista, and wait to see what Performance Samples next libraries, like Pacific, and Voyage offer.


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## holywilly (May 8, 2021)

If you have the full version of Elite, try their “intimate” mix preset, you will be surprised how soaring they are.


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## IdealSequenceG (Jul 8, 2021)

I like the low string sound of Iceni.



View attachment StringLowTest.mp3


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## doctoremmet (Jul 8, 2021)

IdealSequenceG said:


> I like the low string sound of Iceni.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment StringLowTest.mp3



That is a NICE timbre indeed


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 8, 2021)

holywilly said:


> My favorite legato strings is OT’s Berlin strings special bows’ sul tasto legato, so smooth, tender and exquisite.


Only one fav Strings library?

But anyway, my eyes on it.


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## holywilly (Jul 8, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Only one fav Strings library?
> 
> But anyway, my eyes on it.


My workhorse strings library are VSL Synchron Strings Pro and Elite, OT special bows are great addition for expressive emotional music.


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## muziksculp (Jul 8, 2021)

VSL Synchron Elite Strings has a wonderful, and natural sound, that is warm and organic, not harsh, or synthetic in any way.

*TIP:* I also discovered that turning OFF the (Room-Mix) Channel in the mixer, and using a combination of the other mic channels helps me get a much nicer timbre for my taste. Give it a try, and see if you experience the same thing.

So, I'm getting into the habit of turning the (Room-Mix) OFF also in Synchron Strings Pro, and find a combination of the other mics that suits my taste for the project.


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## constaneum (Jul 8, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> VSL Synchron Elite Strings has a wonderful, and natural sound, that is warm and organic, not harsh, or synthetic in any way.
> 
> *TIP:* I also discovered that turning OFF the (Room-Mix) Channel in the mixer, and using a combination of the other mic channels helps me get a much nicer timbre for my taste. Give it a try, and see if you experience the same thing.
> 
> So, I'm getting into the habit of turning the (Room-Mix) OFF also in Synchron Strings Pro, and find a combination of the other mics that suits my taste for the project.


seems like you've owned lots of strings library. please tell me you've owned all the strings libraries available in the market so that i can request for some demos to hear the comparisons. haha


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 8, 2021)

holywilly said:


> My workhorse strings library are VSL Synchron Strings Pro and Elite, OT special bows are great addition for expressive emotional music.


That’s pretty nice, but still less to me, having fewer than 3 libraries but that’s good. 
Elite is Chamber right?
Special bows do these have like special articulations?


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## holywilly (Jul 8, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> That’s pretty nice, but still less to me, having fewer than 3 libraries but that’s good.
> Elite is Chamber right?
> Special bows do these have like special articulations?


I have 8 selected strings libraries in my template, ranging from small to large ensembles. Depending on what types of cues, mixtures of some to suit the cues.

There are detailed information on OT's website regarding Special Bows, basically Sul Tasto and Punticello are the major ones.


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## muziksculp (Jul 8, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Elite is Chamber right?


Yes. 

*VSL Elite Strings : *6 First violins, 5 second violins, 4 violas, 4 cellos, 3 basses


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Yes.
> 
> *VSL Elite Strings : *6 First violins, 5 second violins, 4 violas, 4 cellos, 3 basses


Ok thanks! Wow it’s nice to see 1st Violas AND the 2nd Violins.


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## muziksculp (Jul 9, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Wow it’s nice to see 1st Violas


Did you mean 1st Violins ? 

There is no such thing as 1st Violas. The Viola Section is made up of 4 Players.


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 9, 2021)

holywilly said:


> I have 8 selected strings libraries in my template, ranging from small to large ensembles. Depending on what types of cues, mixtures of some to suit the cues.
> 
> There are detailed information on OT's website regarding Special Bows, basically Sul Tasto and Punticello are the major ones.


Now that’s what am talking about. Great, but is it also advisable (rather recommended?)to limit the libraries to concentrate much on making music or it is totally irrelevant?

Thanks for the info on Special Bows, yes, am gonna check.


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Did you mean 1st Violins ?
> 
> There is no such thing as 1st Violas. The Viola Section is made up of 4 Players.


Lol! Sorry for the typos, yes.


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## markleake (Jul 10, 2021)

Not sure if already mentioned, but the CSS harmonics are pretty amazing.
I love the tone of them more than harmonics in other libs.
Just hold 2 notes, then play anything else along with them. Instant magic.


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## muziksculp (Jul 10, 2021)

Hi,

OK, what about Sordino (Muted) Ensemble Strings, which Sordino String Ensemble Libraries do fancy, and use, especially because you like their timbre ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 10, 2021)

holywilly said:


> I have 8 selected strings libraries in my template, ranging from small to large ensembles. Depending on what types of cues, mixtures of some to suit the cues.
> 
> There are detailed information on OT's website regarding Special Bows, basically Sul Tasto and Punticello are the major ones.


Sorry if I made you angry @holywilly. I never mean to. I was just trying to know & learn as well about things regarding layering. That’s why I came to VI-C. I am learning, I think. Things about layering & String libraries, well all libraries.
I have few libraries but I think I will get. I don’t have a lot of Spitfires & OT, yet. But I think I have Spitfire’s Epic Strings & the Intimate Strings. Also, their BBC SO D. As for OT, I think I have their Layers & the Majestic Horn (Kontakt Version). I think I also have an instrument from the Phoenix Orchestra but none installed, as I don’t have Sine, yet. I would need a more efficient Mac for so.
Btw, I still have to check the Special Bows or did I, already? I don’t remember but yes, I will. But oh I like the Berlin Harp I saw the walkthru & I just couldn’t find the best than that, not even my most fav CineSamples.

Edit: Yes, I checked now the Special Bows. Wow! 2 libraries. High & Low Strings. Oh & I must say, it’s a fest of Sul Tasto & Sul Ponticello. Lovely!


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## holywilly (Jul 11, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> OK, what about Sordino (Muted) Ensemble Strings, which Sordino String Ensemble Libraries do fancy, and use, especially because you like their timbre ?
> 
> ...


I like VSL dimension strings II (VI and Synchronized) for Sordino, it’s the dedicated sordino string library with complete set of articulations, very flexible and playable.


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## Casiquire (Jul 11, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> OK, what about Sordino (Muted) Ensemble Strings, which Sordino String Ensemble Libraries do fancy, and use, especially because you like their timbre ?
> 
> ...


Audiobro is amazing at these. LASS Sordinos are so expressive and beautiful it hurts. MSS takes it in a different direction with a smooth precision and almost ethereal light sound instead with much less vibrato. I love having these two opposites to work with


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## muziksculp (Jul 11, 2021)

8dio Century Strings Sordino v2.0 have a very nice timbre. 

I have to check the LASS Sordino 

I don't like the timbre of the VSL Synchronized Dim-Strings.


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## muziksculp (Jul 11, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Audiobro is amazing at these. LASS Sordinos are so expressive and beautiful it hurts. MSS takes it in a different direction with a smooth precision and almost ethereal light sound instead with much less vibrato. I love having these two opposites to work with


Hi @Casiquire ,

You are very correct (Thanks for the helpful feedback).

I checked the LASS Legato-Sordino Strings, and they are surely the best sounding Sordino Strings I currently have.

I like the Private Ryan EQ Profile, with these sordino strings, and they sound wonderful, I could also try using Fabfilter Pro Q3 (EQ) to shape the timbre, the legato playability is superb. It beats any other Sordino Strings I have. But, it is restricted to Legatos.

I think the next best option that I have would be the 8dio Century Strings, which has more articulations, also VSL Synchronized Dim-Strings II (Sordino) for more short articulations.

It should interesting to see what AudioBro does with these Sordino Strings when they release LASS 3. Also looking forward to LASS 3 normal version. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## muziksculp (Jul 11, 2021)

Some Strings Libraries offer simulated Sordino via filtering some high-frequencies. 

i.e. Chris Hein Ensemble Strings, Sample Modeling Ensemble Strings, Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings, and possibly other libraries. some of these sordino emulations are very good, some are so-so. Any thoughts on this detail ? 

i.e. I think the Chris Hein Ensemble Strings Sordino Emulation, which is in the Settings menu, and you can dial in the amount of sordino effect to your taste, is very well done, and sounds quite good.


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## Casiquire (Jul 11, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Some Strings Libraries offer simulated Sordino via filtering some high-frequencies.
> 
> i.e. Chris Hein Ensemble Strings, Sample Modeling Ensemble Strings, Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings, and possibly other libraries. some of these sordino emulations are very good, some are so-so. Any thoughts on this detail ?
> 
> i.e. I think the Chris Hein Ensemble Strings Sordino Emulation, which is in the Settings menu, and you can dial in the amount of sordino effect to your taste, is very well done, and sounds quite good.


I like the Hollywood Strings timbre. CSS is less to my taste but perfectly fine in context. I don't buy tons of libraries so i can't think of any other emulations that I've had tons of experience with.



muziksculp said:


> Hi @Casiquire ,
> 
> You are very correct (Thanks for the helpful feedback).
> 
> ...


While LASS LS is legato-only, LASS comes with a library-wide emulation to fill in those gaps. For just shorts, trems, etc i think more than enough to get a convincing result across all articulations.

I haven't yet gone deep enough to comment on what, if any, options MSS has for non-legato sordino articulations.


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 12, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Some Strings Libraries offer simulated Sordino via filtering some high-frequencies.
> 
> i.e. Chris Hein Ensemble Strings, Sample Modeling Ensemble Strings, Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings, and possibly other libraries. some of these sordino emulations are very good, some are so-so. Any thoughts on this detail ?
> 
> i.e. I think the Chris Hein Ensemble Strings Sordino Emulation, which is in the Settings menu, and you can dial in the amount of sordino effect to your taste, is very well done, and sounds quite good.


Berlin Strings offer SIMULATED sordino? I didn’t know this. Did they mention this anywhere? I don’t even know about Chris Hein’s but I know AI’s sordino is simulated. They mentioned, well, they have it on the interface but I like Areia. No, I love it.

Damn! I’ve been responding in this thread, without answering the question it deals with.
My most Fav Strings library, well, in respect to the timbre quality is the Adagio series. I can say well, not many Viola sections from various libraries satisfied my ears, except for the Adagio series. Also, ALA, well, more or less. And I think another library caught my attention at first listen, apart from the Adagio series is Spitfire’s Chamber Strings, in respect to the timbre quality. But I don’t have this, yet, but I think I will buy sometime. I also like Berlin Symphonic Strings, well, the last time I heard but I think I have to check another time, to make sure.


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## pipirisnaki (Jul 23, 2021)

At least my solo strings to go are: virharmonic violin and cello. Waiting for viola release. For chamber: spitfire chamber strings, and for orchestral things spitfire symphonic strings and orchestral tools berlin strings. I think all of them have a very nice and realistic timbre and performance.


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## muziksculp (Jul 29, 2021)

Hi,

For those that use *Hans Zimmer Strings*, and have various other String libraries to choose from. 

I'm curious, what is it that makes you choose Hans Zimmer Strings for a specific project, versus your other Strings Libraries ? 

i.e. Their timbre due to the size of the sections in HZ Strings ? or something else ? 

Any feedback about this would be interesting, and helpful. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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