# Looking for advice from composers based in NYC



## CT (Sep 17, 2017)

Hello all,


I recently asked CH if he would talk about life as a composer not based in big hubs like Hollywood or London. My interest stems from the crossroads that I find myself at lately, and now I want to see if I can collect even more location-specific opinions. 

I’ve been building myself up as a composer in every respect for the past six years, almost seven. The end-goal of this was always the obvious “move to Los Angeles.” But as I approach that point, I’m starting to question if it’s what I truly want, and need, at least, at the moment.

Until late 2015, when my family moved (and I with them, unwilling to say no to continued free rent), I was living in New York, in very close proximity to the city. In retrospect, I think I took for granted, in a huge and unfortunate way, what opportunities I may have found there, thanks to my westward tunnel vision. 

Ever since, I’ve been aching to get back. It’ll always be “home” for me, and a move to Los Angeles seems exceedingly difficult from several angles, if not actually impossible, for now. I am waiting to hear about something of a longshot opportunity out there in Hollywood, and if that doesn’t come through, I think it will seal the deal for me wanting to try things elsewhere. 

I’ve had a few scoring projects come out of New York, albeit due to existing personal relationships, so that’s not necessarily representative of what my luck would be in general. From what I can glean, there obviously isn’t *nothing* happening in the area, but it is of course much diminished compared to the big centers of activity elsewhere.

I suppose the insights I’d be looking for from any of you who live there, or have lived there, revolves around things like:

- how much actually seems to be going on for us media composers?

- is there a sense that composers there are settled, or is it more like a stop along the road before they head west?

- would the presumably lower concentration of composers make for more opportunities/an easier time of establishing yourself, or is that rendered moot by the simultaneously lower number of actual projects happening?

I know a number of people in the area, since it’s where I’m from, and many of them are musicians, but none travel in the media composition circles, so I haven’t been able to get much recon from anyone in the thick of it. Hopefully some of you here can help me get a better sense of things.


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## CT (Sep 19, 2017)

Nothin', huh?


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## gsilbers (Sep 19, 2017)

miket said:


> Hello all,
> 
> 
> I recently asked CH if he would talk about life as a composer not based in big hubs like Hollywood or London. My interest stems from the crossroads that I find myself at lately, and now I want to see if I can collect even more location-specific opinions.
> ...



its definitly a hard choice. specially now that LA has a housing crisis and a small 2 bedroom runs about $2500 a month minumiun. and in santa monica its about $3200+.

LA is very spread out and has a ton of social pockets. most nowadays are around santa monica , venice and marina del rey/silicon beach. but making those connections are tough. there are tons of composers alreayd here trying as well. and soemtimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. sometimes it works for a little bit for a show, nothing for the longest time and sudennly another thing. so where does the money come from in the mean time ? right? 

the people iknow that moved from NYC to LA had some sort of connections they could kinda of persue. or at least lead them to something else. and its all about personal connections. and as any personal connection, it takes time to develop. and basically take longer to develop herein LA since its soooo spread out. you might live in santa monica but met a director in eagle rock at an event. oh lord, that would be about 1-2 hours commute to go just have coffee with him.

on the flip side, you could land in a place where your neighbor is a writer with tons of firends and parties who lead to more connections. so basically its a crap shoot, which for younger people , its something they do either way after college. but i have friend who came from nyc with some connections and now do advertising work or compose for libraries.

NYC used to have a lot of studios but most closed and media composers moves ot LA execpt for the advertiment crowd which is big in NYV and chicago.
i mean, if you can land an internship at remote control maybe. even though the atmosphere is very competition, you can make some connections that might lead elsehwere. but trying to make friends with producers is a better idea than with other composers.
one thing that sometimes works, is renting a space in a productino suite. some building here are production centers so you might share the same floor as filmakers and hit it off. but having an office and no gigs.. well. crazy.

so its just that cross road between entrepenurial spirit and common sense. if you are young then defenitly i would do it. if you have a family then if the wife finds a steady job maybe it can work. getting kids in the same schools as producers might also lead to playdate connections. funny how LA is. basically trying to get friends so you can get a gig. :-/
and of course, if you are not that right connection, why would i want to drive across town for coffee !! (x2 :/)


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## Desire Inspires (Sep 19, 2017)

Yikes! 

That is far too much work to do just to live in LA and compose music.


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## CT (Sep 20, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> its definitly a hard choice. specially now that LA has a housing crisis and a small 2 bedroom runs about $2500 a month minumiun. and in santa monica its about $3200+.
> 
> LA is very spread out and has a ton of social pockets. most nowadays are around santa monica , venice and marina del rey/silicon beach. but making those connections are tough. there are tons of composers alreayd here trying as well. and soemtimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. sometimes it works for a little bit for a show, nothing for the longest time and sudennly another thing. so where does the money come from in the mean time ? right?
> 
> ...



Thanks for this response. Your first sentence sums it all up.


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## SillyMidOn (Sep 21, 2017)

If your question is "can I make a really good living as a MEDIA composer and not live in LA", then the resounding answer is a YES.

Hope that helps .


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## gsilbers (Sep 21, 2017)

miket said:


> Thanks for this response. Your first sentence sums it all up.


lol. glad to help. 

I dont think most poeple in LA grasp how bad it is. since there is rent control in LA county and poeple who bought a property before the 80s only pay 1980s taxes, they dont see how bad its gotten. they just say, well if you dont like it or cant afford it then leave... or thats sort of mentality. they dont like the influx of poeple coming into LA. yet they also came from somewhere else. or they say its just another housing bubble etc. 
but since the housing crisis, there was very few development and the NIMBY group made progress in not allowing a lot of new big constructions. NIMBY is (not in my backyard group.. where poeple like leonardo dicaprio and others are part of). 
so LA hasnt been able to afford mid level high rises or getting into a bunch of lawsuit anytime anyone wants to build up. so now its just a sprawl that ENDS. it used to be everyone thought it could go on and on.. but not any more. plus if you count that most jobs for the entertainment world is near the cost (santa monica, venice, etc) but most jobs dont pay that much to live there, you can see how traffic from poeple that live in the east just drives those cities and surroundings to the limit. takes about one hour or so to get from santa monica to west hollywood. a 13 mile distance. 
so the answer for those who want to live in LA and think that being in LA will get them jobs.. well. the answer is in this little details. can you afford to live in santa monica/marina del rey several months at time with no work and make those connections? as most poeple in forums or comment section say, its transplant who have trust funds or are rich etc.


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## CT (Sep 21, 2017)

More great insights, thanks. 

I have been acutely aware of how difficult it is to live there, and even just to move there in the first place, for years, but it seems that lately I'm seeing even more caution than usual being preached by those of you already in L.A. Things seem to be getting harder? 

Since I am far from having any kind of financial stability, it's a damn disappointment! Even if certain connections were to align for me as I hope they do, the logistics involved will be a nightmare, absolutely.



SillyMidOn said:


> If your question is "can I make a really good living as a MEDIA composer and not live in LA", then the resounding answer is a YES.
> 
> Hope that helps .



Well, that isn't *exactly* my question. Common sense, along with CH's recent video and a good number of real-world examples, would indicate that of course it's possible. What I'm wondering about now is specifically New York City, and, rather than asking "is it possible to do it there?" I'm asking "how has it actually been for you, doing it there?"


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## SillyMidOn (Sep 22, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> lol. glad to help.
> 
> I dont think most poeple in LA grasp how bad it is. since there is rent control in LA county and poeple who bought a property before the 80s only pay 1980s taxes, they dont see how bad its gotten. they just say, well if you dont like it or cant afford it then leave... or thats sort of mentality. they dont like the influx of poeple coming into LA. yet they also came from somewhere else. or they say its just another housing bubble etc.


It's funny how that is so similar to London. There is no rent control in England, but the rents, house prices and also cost of travel on the tube has spiralled out of control. Mind you the cost of housing is very high in most of the country, especially the South East. But you are so right in saying that older generations don't seem to be aware how bad it has become for the younger ones to get going in life, I don't think it's very fair.


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## SillyMidOn (Sep 22, 2017)

miket said:


> More great insights, thanks.
> 
> I have been acutely aware of how difficult it is to live there, and even just to move there in the first place, for years, but it seems that lately I'm seeing even more caution than usual being preached by those of you already in L.A. Things seem to be getting harder?
> 
> ...


I live neither in LA, nor NYC, but used to live in London, but left as we started a family, and we decided it's not a great place to raise children. Others may disagree, but I prefer my son to be able to breath clean air and run along the beach at the drop of a hot. Still love London, though.

If I may try and attempt to answer your question further: I don't know if you are totally focused on becoming a "film composer" or happy to be a "media composer". The thing with films is that people often wrongly see it has the pinnacle of the music media composition hierarchy and get blinded by this, but the truth is that so, so many films get made these days, most of them on very low to no budget (check out the pages on mandy.com), so if someone actually averaged out the take home pay of all composers in all films in a year, all those 0 budget films would drag down the average/median very quickly. It is certainly true that the TOP film composers earn way more than you would in any other field of media composition, but this skews things, as that is only the top. People are also a bit dazzled by the words "film" and "Hollywood" as it sounds great when you mention it to your mates. So it might be that you are trying very hard to make connections in that film world, but I'm not sure it is the right place to start. The most important thing as a creative person is that you have some money coming in, I would advise against taking a non related part time job, as this can wear you out, instead find a way to make some money through music, so teaching an instrument, playing gigs, accompanying the local ballet class (yes, I was offered that once), write music for libraries (some people make a killing out of this), NYC is also the advert hub from what I hear so get talking to people there, get talking to game developers (from what I hear there is usually some kind of budget), are you good with Sibelius/Finale (?) - then you might be able to provide a service for music engraving, or even for taking composers midi and rendering it to sheet music parts for a recording session, get a web presence so people can accidentally stumble across you music (I personally hate this part but do do it) and persevere, and sure, do the odd 0 budget movie for the sheer love of film as a medium and to gain experience. People who are likely to employ you get very nervous if you have 0 experience, imho. People often talk about the big names in the industry, the Silvestris, Williams, Newton-Howards, etc, but there is an army of composers you have never heard of making a very good living. Every time you watch a scored tv show, or something on netflix, look up the composer, I bet you will never have heard for him/her. There is sadly of course an even bigger army of composers who have failed.

The other thing is that the world is changing so quickly, and so much communication is now done online. It's great to be able to meet up with the people you are working for, have a meal/drink, but in all honesty it probably means travelling to them, and that means the whole day is gone, and usually you are working several jobs at the same time, so that means you are not in the studio to reply to a different client's needs that day/send over stems/make a quick change. Everything has become very 24/7 365 and interconnected. I work for a lot of people I have never met in person who live on other and various continents.

Does that help?


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## CT (Sep 23, 2017)

It does; those are all more worthwhile things to think about, and I appreciate you taking the time.

I've taken to using the term "media composer" rather than "film composer" deliberately, for the very reasons you bring up. I'm actually way more tickled by the freedom that some composers seem to be finding with working on video games recently, than I am by the direction the main trends of movies seem to be going in, just as an example.

For me, this is the size of it: I enjoy making music more than anything else, I think I'm not awful at it, and I'd like to be able to earn a living by doing it, *in some form.* Obviously, there are really ideal ways of doing this, but there are also the more practical and probable ways, and I'm trying to remain open to all of them. I actually haven't been actively seeking out any "big" chances on the Hollywood scene or anything, but there's something that, purely by chance, could end up developing in that way for me. I think the odds are slim, and I'm certainly not banking on that over any more pragmatic plans. And, I'm not going to be torn up when it eventually falls through. I'm not married to that idea of the perfect, direct path, nor to the idea that that's even the right destination.

I also hear you fully on the potential pitfalls of taking another job, any job, just to survive. The burn-out and/or complacency that can lead to is something I'm not unfamiliar with. But this does narrow down the options for how to support yourself, to a frustrating degree.

I'm told that I'm still young, even though I don't feel like it, and that I'm in a good position to make these risky moves as I'm still unattached, beyond my family, and don't yet have any responsibilities to anyone other than myself. All true, I guess, but it doesn't make me any less confused as to what the hell to do.

I'm working on an album at the moment... perhaps it'll sell for millions, no, billions, and I'll be set!


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## SillyMidOn (Sep 25, 2017)

miket said:


> It does; those are all more worthwhile things to think about, and I appreciate you taking the time.
> 
> I've taken to using the term "media composer" rather than "film composer" deliberately, for the very reasons you bring up. I'm actually way more tickled by the freedom that some composers seem to be finding with working on video games recently, than I am by the direction the main trends of movies seem to be going in, just as an example.
> 
> ...


Yes, do be open to what might transpire... my originally chosen career in music is not at all what I ended up doing full time at all, so you never know where you hit you groove.

Well, once you have a family, it's very true, it all gets very tricky. I have seen people's careers fall apart once they have their first child, going from 2 incomes and 2 mouths to one income and three mouths is a harsh wake-up call.

Heck I used to be at your point, shall we call it point A, and wanted to get to where I am now, point B, and I sometimes think of how I could have chopped off a few years and got their quicker, but there just aren't any guarantees or knowing what will work you best for you, plus you learn *a lot* on the journey. I recently had to clear out my studio for some remedial building work, and came across some very old rejection letters, they made me chuckle...

Lemme know if you have any other specific questions.


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## ryst (Sep 26, 2017)

My wife and I moved to LA in summer 2010 with less than $1000 to our name, no jobs, no place to live, and one car hauling a U-Haul across country. We got here, worked out butts off and have been doing well despite of the increased rent and other things that make it a hard place to live for a lot of people. 

I'm extremely blessed because I work from home (or anywhere I want) and my wife works in DTLA but she doesn't need to take the highway because we live in West Hollywood. So we have a very strategic location and no kids other than the beautiful boy in my profile pic.  Also, obviously having 2 incomes helps a ton so again, I'm really blessed.

Regardless, I think 2 (among many) huge factors in moving here are #1 - you have to really want to live here and willing to sacrifice a lot to make it work. If you're having second thoughts or not sure if it's what you truly want, then there's your answer. #2 - You gotta be good at a lot of stuff. There is a ton of work out here but if you're just a composer then it's going to be difficult to constantly find work. I luckily positioned myself a long time ago to be good at a few things so I'm always busy. This week alone I'm scoring and mixing a film, doing One on One Mix training with a client in England and a client in Brussels, mastering a few songs for another client, and bla bla bla...you get the picture. Now, that's just my POV so take it with a grain of salt.

This sentence stuck out to me the most though: *"I’m starting to question if it’s what I truly want, and need, at least, at the moment." * Don't move if you don't really want it.


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