# [PRS MEMBERS] Do you ever enter 'buyout' contracts?



## Tom78 (Feb 2, 2016)

Do any PRS members here ever create music for an agency or client without registering it with PRS? 

I've seen people posting that you cannot enter buyouts or produce for royalty free libraries.

If anyone has found themselves in a similar position then I'd like to hear from you!

Thanks


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## doctornine (Feb 2, 2016)

I fear no-one is going to admit to that on such a public forum 

Pseudonym's are your friend, but you didn't hear me, right ?


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## Tom78 (Feb 2, 2016)

I thought that might be the case!


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## Daryl (Feb 2, 2016)

Tom78 said:


> Do any PRS members here ever create music for an agency or client without registering it with PRS?
> 
> I've seen people posting that you cannot enter buyouts or produce for royalty free libraries.
> 
> ...


Nope. That would be breaking your agreement with PRS and could get you thrown out. In fact not being able to enter those sorts of contracts is in our favour, because it means that no matter how bullying a producer or director, they can't get access to our 50% of Broadcast Royalties.


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## Baron Greuner (Feb 2, 2016)

edited


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## Daryl (Feb 2, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> There are, as as I'm aware, different types of RF libraries.


Yes, and some of them are not strictly speaking RF. They are just MCPS (or equivalent) free.

However, the bottom line is that if any of your music is broadcast, PRS will be seeking to collect your Royalties, whether or not you want them to do so.


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## reddognoyz (Feb 2, 2016)

All my contracts are "buyouts" or works for hire, BUT I retain the writers share and that language is in all my contracts. I've lobbied hard to retain a slice of the publishing, but haven't been able to get that...ever.


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## Baron Greuner (Feb 2, 2016)

edited


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## soundslikejoe (Feb 2, 2016)

I try to educate clients. "Buy out" is industry slang, but has no legal standing. The basic goals of ad agency clients are to avoid re-use fees and/or obtain ownership for brand identity protection... maybe on occasion they understand publishing and want to own the back-end income, but that's rare. Maybe there are other reasons, but I've not encountered them. I have encountered a lot of clients who think that they would be responsible for paying the performing rights society.... or some other incorrect industry assumptions.

In a polite and engaging way, we discuss their goals of the "buy out" and then we craft the budget and contract relative to that. It less common when they truly want to own the publishing.... a majority of the time, they just want to avoid re-use payments... so the gig is really a non-ex perpetuity agreement. Occasionally they want no-reuse and a term of exclusivity (1yr, 6months, 5yrs)... these are exclusive term agreements. Occasionally they want to truly own it... these are exclusive perpetuity. Each one being more expensive than the other.

I wouldn't say this to a client... but between us 
"Buy-out" is a bullsh!t catch phrase that means nothing in court. Whenever I find this term or "work for hire" it's always great to have a short and polite conversation about goals. Then use contracts that use real legal language to achieve those goals. (WFH is a real thing but a project must meet requirements to qualify... one of which is a signed WFH agreement... saying it on the phone means nothing)

So... you can work with clients who want "buy outs" but you shouldn't sign any paper that uses that as some legal language.... that way you can satisfy the client and not conflict with your PRO.

Personally... I ALWAYS keep my publishing unless I'm being paid VERY WELL for the gig. I've never sold the writer's share, and never will.


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## bleupalmtree (Jan 8, 2023)

soundslikejoe said:


> Personally... I ALWAYS keep my publishing unless I'm being paid VERY WELL for the gig. I've never sold the writer's share, and never will.


How well are we talking to sell your publishing? 10, 15K?


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## GtrString (Jan 8, 2023)

It’s a dead end to do buyouts. Never have, never will. I don’t judge others, you can do what you want, but I would rather starve in the gutter and be eaten alive by rats.


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## Epic Wonder (Monday at 12:35 PM)

Buyouts don’t sound feasible to me. I’d rather do a perpetual non-exclusive license.


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## bleupalmtree (Monday at 2:29 PM)

Epic Wonder said:


> Buyouts don’t sound feasible to me. I’d rather do a perpetual non-exclusive license.


Perpetual non-exclusive license, what's that?


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## Epic Wonder (Tuesday at 9:29 AM)

bleupalmtree said:


> Perpetual non-exclusive license, what's that?


It would be like I take a song or collection of songs and license them to a network. I would get a one-time upfront payment and they would be able to use the music forever. But since the deal is non-exclusive, I would retain the rights to license the music to other entities or to release on my own.


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## davidson (Tuesday at 9:37 AM)

If anyone thinks PRS would stop me taking a £100k buyout for a track, they're crazy.


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## Crowe (Tuesday at 9:54 AM)

bleupalmtree said:


> How well are we talking to sell your publishing? 10, 15K?


You do realize OP asked this question over 6 years ago?


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## bleupalmtree (Tuesday at 10:13 AM)

Epic Wonder said:


> It would be like I take a song or collection of songs and license them to a network. I would get a one-time upfront payment and they would be able to use the music forever. But since the deal is non-exclusive, I would retain the rights to license the music to other entities or to release on my own.


And how much does a one time payment usually go for a Perpetual non-exclusive license?


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