# Ambient Guitar FX



## Ned Bouhalassa (Oct 15, 2011)

Hi gang,

I'm looking to get an FX unit of some type (hardware or software) that would easily allow me to create a variety of guitar washes, soundscapes, textures. I'm thinking delay + looper + pitch shifting, etc. I'd like to keep the price under 500 bucks, so forget about the Eventide Eclipse! :( :mrgreen: 

Thanks for any tips. 

BTW, I have Guitar Rig, but I don't have the time to program a bunch of patches, plus I want to play away from the screen.

PS: I do have an iPad and Alesis Dock... :?:


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## Ryan Scully (Oct 15, 2011)

Hey Ned.

I've really liked the Line 6 Delay and Envelope Modellers for this kind of thing. The pair would run you about $500 as well. Many many sonic possibilities from both units - definitely worth checking out if you don't already have them.





Ryan


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Oct 15, 2011)

Excellent choices, man!


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## Ryan Scully (Oct 15, 2011)

Yeah Ned, they are incredible units. I ditched my guitar effects signal processors for them years ago. They've been my go to for live and recording ever since. Fantastic value all around!




Ryan _-)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 15, 2011)

Also, the Sound Toys plug-ins are superb.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Oct 15, 2011)

Nick, thanks but this time, I'm going to go hardware. I'm picking up the Line 6 pedals in the next few days.


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## gsilbers (Oct 15, 2011)

does a standalone computer with a program like Live hosting a slew of effect manglers count as hardware


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## synthetic (Oct 15, 2011)

I've had a bunch of Line 6 peals and sold them all. Cold and lifeless IMO. Even the delay pedal (I think I had the Echo Park) was really flat sounding. Not sure how else to describe it, just not at all inspiring. 

I have the EH Memory Boy and that is really nice for ambient stuff. I picked up a vintage Boss Dimension C pedal in Tokyo, that's also fun for guitars and synths. Often I'll start with those and then run them into a plug-in like Audio Damage Dr Device or Ricochet for further managing.


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## Folmann (Oct 15, 2011)

Ned - you probably already have all the tools at hand - there is so much excellent looping software (ex. http://www.essej.net/sooperlooper/) - or record a chord you like an import into paulstretcher or just be totally lazy and http://8dio.com/?btp_product=ambient-guitar


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Oct 16, 2011)

Thanks, but I want HARD stuff that I can touch, drop, step on.


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## Cruciform (Oct 17, 2011)

Ned,

If you like Eventide quality, forget Line 6. Check out the TC Electronics range.

Rob.


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## poseur (Oct 28, 2011)

my suggestions would cost more than US$500., unless you find supercool used deals.....
do you want those suggestions, anyways, ned?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Oct 28, 2011)

From you? An honour! I can always invest in better gear in time.


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## Synesthesia (Oct 28, 2011)

I love my Axe FX Ultra.. :twisted:


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## Folmann (Oct 28, 2011)

Axe is awesome - new Pods are awesome - you should pick one of those IMO.


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## poseur (Oct 28, 2011)

no looping in the axe-fx, afaik.
it's not _quite_ really hardware, either, though, imo.....

looping devices:
boomerang
echoplex digital pro
looperlative (or, its pedal derivative)

reverbs:
lexicon pcm80 or 81 --- covers delay, reverb & pitch-shifting (used!)
neunaber wet stereo reverb (pedal! cheap! killer sound & build! no kidding.)

pitchshifters:
hmmm.
me i use the lexicon pcm80,
AND
the new (cheap!) digitech whammyDT pedal..... which really sounds great,
and is fully polyphonic,
and is decidedly more flexible than any previous whammy pedal (it's mono, though).


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## Kralc (Nov 1, 2011)

How did I miss this? This is my area of expertise...

Strymon Pedals http://www.strymon.net/ have some amazing stuff, BlueSky reverb is perfect for ambience. Has pitch shifting (octave up) And the El Capistan is a seriously awesome delay, with some looping functionality. The Timeline is also available, but has a serious wait time.

The Empress Superdelay is also a great option http://www.empresseffects.com/superdelay.html

And If you want Eventide quality they also have stompboxes, just released a new reverb http://www.eventide.com/AudioDivision/Products/StompBoxes.aspx (http://www.eventide.com/AudioDivision/P ... Boxes.aspx)

On the less-pricey end is the EH Cathedral, which I love http://www.ehx.com/products/cathedral The infinite switch is perfect for sustaining long chords.

But if you do decide to go with the Line 6 products, (still really good quality stuff, tons of professional guitarists are still using the DL-4). Get the M5/M9/M13, has everything the DL-4 has plus modulation, filters, distortion, pitchshifters, and a (not) full looper. :D 

Add a Klon to any of these and you're well on your way to becoming a cork-sniffer. (Boutique Pedal Enthusiast) :wink:


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## poseur (Nov 1, 2011)

Kralc @ Tue Nov 01 said:


> On the less-pricey end is the EH Cathedral, which I love http://www.ehx.com/products/cathedral The infinite switch is perfect for sustaining long chords.



if you're into more warmth & naturalness from your reverb,
then.....
i've not heard nor played anything better than the Neunaber Wet Stereo Reverb.....
$225.
quite a few manufacturers use brian neunaber's proprietarily-designed reverb chips,
but none of them (imo) sounds as rich & beautiful as the ones in the pedals he's now making,
himself.
true stereo, in and out. sums nicely to mono, in two different ways, if you like.
usb input for updates, and other functionality.



Kralc @ Tue Nov 01 said:


> Get the M5/M9/M13, has everything the DL-4 has plus modulation, filters, distortion, pitchshifters, *and a full looper*.



ha!
well..... "a full looper"? no way.
those are good multi-use boxes, really, but..... 
there's certainly no "full looper" in the M-series thingies, by my standards:
not by a pretty long-shot!


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## Kralc (Nov 1, 2011)

The Neunaber Wet Stereo, is a fantastic reverb, and sounds beautiful (If I wasn't so broke I pick it and the chorus up,) I only didn't mention it cause you already had. Sure the Cathedral may not have the same ultra high quality sound of the Wet, but it's versatility and great sound still make a great reverb

Well, yeah I guess they're not "full" loopers, but for the budget Ned suggested they get the job done and offer delay, mod.... (The dist. I doubt I would touch...) He asked for a something that could offer delay, pitch shifting and a looper, for $500. And the Boomerang is $500 itself.

And what I always feel with effect pedals (always a popular topic on stompbox forums) is that the people paying the money to come to your show can't tell the difference between the cheap pedal and the most expensive pedal ever, in a studio setting I think it's a bit different (although you could definitely hear the difference between a dano reverb and the wet anywhere :lol: ), but the amount of albums where the guitarist is using a pod/dl-4 is staggering.


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## poseur (Nov 1, 2011)

Kralc @ Tue Nov 01 said:


> The Neunaber Wet Stereo, is a fantastic reverb, and sounds beautiful (If I wasn't so broke I pick it and the chorus up,) I only didn't mention it cause you already had. Sure the Cathedral may not have the same ultra high quality sound of the Wet, but it's versatility and great sound still make a great reverb


yes, the Cathedral is fine!
finally, anything that works for _you_ will do.



Kralc @ Tue Nov 01 said:


> Well, yeah I guess they're not "full" loopers, but for the budget Ned suggested they get the job done and offer delay, mod.... (The dist. I doubt I would touch...) He asked for a something that could offer delay, pitch shifting and a looper, for $500. And the Boomerang is $500 itself.


true!
i _was_ trying to stay somewhat budgetarily responsible,
even though nb gave me some amount of "free rein", there;
i regularly use 3 hardware looping devices, so.....




Kralc @ Tue Nov 01 said:


> And what I always feel with effect pedals (always a popular topic on stompbox forums) is that the people paying the money to come to your show can't tell the difference between the cheap pedal and the most expensive pedal ever,


ah!
i'm not sure i agree with you, there, or not, but:
it's true that i don't think like that.....
it doesn't matter to whether or not they can discern distinct differences like that, really.....
because, i can.
8-)




Kralc @ Tue Nov 01 said:


> in a studio setting I think it's a bit different (although you could definitely hear the difference between a dano reverb and the wet anywhere :lol: ), but the amount of albums where the guitarist is using a pod/dl-4 is staggering.



i have been recorded, myself, quite often, and that work continues;
i can't count the number of recordings with which i've been involved, creatively.....
both for music/music and for scoring films, tv, commercials etc.

usually playing guitars & guitar-based textures of many sorts, oud, cumbus, etc etc etc.

sometimes, when need & convenience requires,
i might also resort to using the Digi 11-Rack, the L6-HD500, an old L6-Pod & etc.
but, i nearly always use my own pedals & my own odd fx-setup.

ymmv!


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## Kralc (Nov 1, 2011)

Playing live, us musicians can hear a difference if you a/b them, but it's more of the notion that one doesn't need to constantly fretting over the best pedals. Why use some boutique ts clone or a centaur for sweet blues tones when SRV got away with a pair of TS-808's -10's? Then you raise the "Tone is in the fingers" argument, which I think plays a part of it also, albeit pedals aren't appropriate for the genre, Wes Montgomery has one of the greatest tones.


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## poseur (Nov 2, 2011)

Kralc @ Tue Nov 01 said:


> Playing live, us musicians can hear a difference if you a/b them, but it's more of the notion that one doesn't need to constantly fretting over the best pedals.



i think i understand where you're coming from, but.....
..... silly public arguments about "tone production" don't interest me;
i trust my own ears, mind, heart & hands..... and, i am left to my own devices, there,
with my own work-ethic & direction.

i'm not prone to worrying about what the legions of casual internet observers might do with their guitars.
i play what sounds & feels good to me, & only ever make recommendations from my own position of experience and from whatever i've learned for myself.

i do not "fret" (ha! funny!) over "the best" pedals;
i have absolutely no clue as to what's really "best" for people i don't know,
for musicians whose musicality, skills, knowledge, taste & proclivities are unknown to me:
to each, their own.

otoh?
ned is, in fact, somewhat known to me, hence the wee list i posted.



Kralc @ Tue Nov 01 said:


> Why use some boutique ts clone or a centaur for sweet blues tones when SRV got away with a pair of TS-808's -10's?


like i said:
not my argument.
i don't actually care what SRV did or did not use;
i don't actually care about achieving the herd's agreement on some "sweet blues tone".
and, i haven't used a TS-808 type pedal since approx. 1980 or '81,
when i _'accidentally'_ left mine behind at a recording session.



Kralc @ Tue Nov 01 said:


> Then you raise the "Tone is in the fingers" argument, which I think plays a part of it also,


errrrmmmm..... again:
not my argument; i didn't raise it, here;
i was asking ned's forgiveness in mentioning a few things out-of-his-requested-price-range.

but, in reality, such arguments are utterly moot, for me.

the electric guitar is an instrument, as worthy as any of one's attention
in the pursuit of some kind of creative & _personal_ musical expression;
in that, the realistic study & effort towards "tone production" is a historical concept,
borne-out by countless generations of musicians on all instruments
by players striving towards the aforesaid creative & personal musical expression.

i'm not gonna argue about it;
that's the way it is, and the way it's always been.....
from django reinhardt, to neil young, to wes montgomery, to SRV, to kevin shields, to pepé habichuela,
to andrés segovia, to pete cosey, to blood ulmer, to terje rypdal & etc etc etc etc etc:
the way it is.

this, even given that the current "special circumstances" show that 
the marketplace of products for guitarists has become of singularly epic size &
historically notable proportions.





Kralc @ Tue Nov 01 said:


> albeit pedals aren't appropriate for the genre, Wes Montgomery has one of the greatest tones.


i don't care about appropriateness, myself;
i love music.

but!
i also love wes' musicality & sound.....
in fact, he was the 2nd electric player to have truly inspired me;
of course, i sound & play nothing like him, at all, for better or worse.


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## Kralc (Nov 2, 2011)

Sorry, I meant no disrespect and wasn't trying to start any arguments (the "you" in the you raise the... was no way at all towards you, would make more sense as "one raises..etc.) My posts weren't intended to be argumentative, I was just stating my opinions on pedals, and other pedal-related forums. I completely agree about tone production. That's why Wes is one of my favourite players, nothing but those awesome thumbs.  

Sorry again if I came across argumentative. And sorry for derailing the thread a bit. :oops:


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## poseur (Nov 2, 2011)

it's all good, clark;
i'm fine, if somewhat testy & increasingly curmudgeonly.
ha!


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## Diffusor (Nov 8, 2011)

I use Eventide. Simply the best effects on the market. I have a Eclipse and a DSP7000. But I suggest their line of modular pedals which are about $500 which you can gradually expand.

Strymon make great stuff too. I have their Capistan delay.


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## Niah (Mar 14, 2012)

Great thread !

I been thinking of investing in gear as well for this type of stuff. I am really interested in getting all kinds of sounds from shoegaze, to playing with an e-bow, cello bow, to interesting sound material for post-processing with time streching tools and the like.

Now I already see some great suggestions here regarding FX units however my question is, *what guitar?*

I have been playing acoustic/classical guitar for many years, a little bit of electric guitar here and there but never owned one I was never interested until I saw the sonic possibilities in terms of non-traditional guitar playing if you will and I have been putting this off for a long long time.

I have been told that in this case the guitar itself is not really important but I'm not really convinced. What do you guys recommend?


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## gsilbers (Mar 14, 2012)

true! 

what guitar indeed...

there is pretty interesting guitars at rondo music... aguile guitars.

there is 7 string, 8 string 10 string

basses with 8 strings as well. 

great for sound design or plain death metal rocking  

also, the adrenalinn pedal and plugin are pretty good.


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## poseur (Mar 14, 2012)

i'm a guitarist, who uses the guitar in not precisely traditional ways.

it's important to me that i love the guitars i play, for themselves:
the way they feel & respond, the way they sound, their functionalities, _and_ the way they _look_.


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## Niah (Mar 14, 2012)

Poseur,

Thanks those are all great points to consider.

Now forgive if this question is too obvious or dumb does the "sound" of an electric guitar produces varies greatly from guitar to guitar or the sound is just mostly or more impacted by the amp, pedals, fx units, etc...

Essentially I guess I'm trying to decide if I need to invest more on the guitar or the FX's


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## poseur (Mar 15, 2012)

Niah @ Wed Mar 14 said:


> Poseur,
> 
> Thanks those are all great points to consider.
> 
> ...



unfortunately, as also regards playing any instrument _well_,
my _general_ answer to your general question will imply a gestalt, ie:

the sound is:
a) in your hands, mind & heart,
b) dependent upon the guitar, itself,
c) dependent much upon the amplification system, and, also,
d) certainly dependent upon the use of FX (or _not_, as the case may be).

in your case, given that you're interested in going for very particular sounds,
i'd say that you need to look at the type of FX typically used by guitarists within your favorite musical style(s):
that will likely be
a) odd fuzz-boxes,
b) overdrives,
c) delay lines/reverb & 
d) modulation.

given a basis of musicality & skill on your part,
if you increase the quality of each element
--- gtr, amp, fx ---
well..... the quality will increase.

a) get a *good* guitar,
b) get a *great* amp,
c) get *quality fx* that will serve the specific musical functions you're seeking.


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## wst3 (Mar 15, 2012)

Great thread!

A couple observations, my experience and preferences only...

You can't change who you are, your tastes and technique are unique to you. You can broaden your musical experience by listening to lots of different music (and oddly enough, I think by writing and recording as well) and you can improve your technique through practice.

I get antsy about using the phrase improve your technique... while there are certainly things guitarists can do to hinder themselves, technique is not, by itself, good or bad.

I teach beginning guitarists, and many of them want to learn to play fast. That's their goal. I try to guide them to a mindset that is slightly different. They also want to be the 'best' guitar player in school. Again, I don't believe that guitar is a competitive thing... you need to do what you do to the best of your ability today. And if you can still hear things in your head that you can't play then you need to extend (sounds better than improve) your techniques to cover those things.

Sorry if that's a bit crusty... but as a guitar teacher I run into this a lot, so I probably over-react a little.

And the same thing goes to gear. There are guitars that fit my hands and my technique better than they might fit someone else. That makes them better for me. Pedals and amplifiers.... same deal! I could pick up a PRS and a Mesa Boogie but I still won't sound like Carlos Santana. I do still wish I had a 59 Sunburst Les Paul and a 50W Marshall or two cause the 17 year old in me still thinks I'd sound like Duane - oh well... you can't outgrow every childhood dream!

Part of the problem today is that we don't have local music stores in every town where one can try all sorts of stuff. It was certainly easier when one could do so.

Enough rambling - specific suggestions:

1) if you don't already have one, get a guitar you love to play. I have four guitars right now that get the most use - they all sound different, and they cover most of the sonic bases.

2) I think it is important to have at least two amplifiers, and they should be different. This lets you create some interesting pseudo stereo effects with delays and modulation effects and even filters. It's also true that some guitar/amplifier combinations just have a certain sound.

3) If I were starting out I'd avoid the temptation to buy an all-in-one box. I have a few lying around that don't get a lot of use. (I do have an Adrenalinn 2 on my pedal board, I love their sync'd effects!) The all-in-one boxes are tempting, but they've just never quite measured up sonically for me.

While you can start with one from each category, you will probably find that it is fun to have different flavors to play with. The DL-4 has been mentioned here, it is a pretty cool pedal (I think) but if all I really need is delay I use an ancient Ibanez AD-80. And if I want stranger effects I still have a tape based Space Echo. I also have a Mutron DDL which has CV and clock inputs, a CompuEffectron, and an old Deltalab that has an envelope follower in it. And that's just delay.

I don't take all of that out for gigs, but I love having it in the studio.

One way to figure out which of what is to find out what your favorite players use. While you won't sound like them (nor do you want to) it gives you a baseline to work from.

Now is maybe the best time to be hunting for guitar stuff - the number of small developers continues to increase, and while some of the stuff is silly expensive, the quality from "bootique-y' builders remains uniformly high.

You'll get chuckles too - I did a pit band gig recently and one of the actors commented that he did not expect to see any Boss pedals on my board, but he'd never even heard of half the manufacturers.

The other thing I tell my students - it may seem prudent to get lower cost gear cause you can get more of it, but in the long run that never seems to work out. If you want a brand-X amplifier save your money and just get it.


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## Niah (Mar 15, 2012)

Thank you for the kickstart guys you have been extremely helpful.


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## poseur (Mar 15, 2012)

Niah @ Thu Mar 15 said:


> Thank you for the kickstart guys you have been extremely helpful.



no problem, niah.


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