# Catalina still sucks on my MacBook Air: coda



## JohnG (Jun 23, 2020)

Catalina still sucks if you have a somewhat older laptop (2015). I can't even get my MacBook Air to run properly on it. I have to restart it frequently and there is zero reason for it; only using (mostly) Safari and Mail.

I'm still on Sierra for my DAW computer and High Sierra for Pro Tools. So glad I never 'upgraded.'


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## Rory (Jun 23, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Catalina still sucks if you have a somewhat older laptop (2015).



Catalina runs fine on my 2014 Mac mini. However, I plan to replace it with the Big Sur beta this evening. Just have to confirm that Big Sur is supported on a six year old mini.


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## jbuhler (Jun 23, 2020)

I’m on Mojave on both my studio computer and my laptop and don’t plan to update these machines, perhaps never. For one thing I’ll have to replace thousands of dollars of software. So moving to a new system will occur when I buy a new machine.


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## JohnG (Jun 23, 2020)

I wonder if it's a laptop problem? I don't have good data at all, just me and one other user. 

That said, it's so bad I would like to roll back to Mojave if I could ever find the time!


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 23, 2020)

Absolutely fine here on a MbP. Caveat: It's a new one.


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## sherief83 (Jun 23, 2020)

I have 10.15 on a work 2012 mac mini and a personal late 2012 mac mini. both with SSD and 16gb of ram. runs fine and i think that is the sweet spot for hardware spec for that particular OS. anything below and it does drag. 

I run 10.14 on my Mac pro 2012 which has been very good.


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## JohnG (Jun 23, 2020)

sherief83 said:


> I run 10.14 on my Mac pro 2012 which has been very good.



Thanks @sherief83 . I don't know when I will be able to do it but I will roll back to Mojave. Setting up the email has been just hell, honestly. 

One accumulates so many addresses and some of them are old and just don't work very well now. But abandoning an email address from someone who's trying to reach you, who worked with you 10 years ago? No thanks!


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## yiph2 (Jun 23, 2020)

I'm pretty sure there is a way to downgrade, but you'll have to search how to do it. I also have a MBA 2015, and I'm not planning to upgrade at all, will stick to Mojave


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## Billy Palmer (Jun 23, 2020)

I still run high sierra on my MBP 2015 retina. Curious to hear about catolina from anyone who has the same set up.


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## Rory (Jun 23, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> I'm pretty sure there is a way to downgrade, but you'll have to search how to do it.



It isn't hard, but it takes some time. You need a copy of all your data (Time Machine makes it easy) before you install Mojave.


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## JohnG (Jun 23, 2020)

Rory said:


> It isn't hard, but it takes some time. You need a copy of all your data (Time Machine makes it easy) before you install Mojave.



I have a Time Machine backup. I don't have to reinstall all my Mail addresses?


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## Rory (Jun 23, 2020)

JohnG said:


> I have a Time Machine backup. I don't have to reinstall all my Mail addresses?



No. Basically, you erase the drive and install Mojave. It's like you just bought a new computer and use Time Machine to set it up with all your data, including Contacts, etc. If you're feeling paranoid about your e-mail (no reason to be), you can always export it before you do this. You should have a second backup anyway


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## JohnG (Jun 23, 2020)

Rory said:


> No. Basically, you erase the drive and install Mojave. It's like you just bought a new computer and use Time Machine to set it up with all your data, including Contacts, etc. If you're feeling paranoid about your e-mail (no reason to be), you can always export it before you do this. You should have a second backup anyway



Thanks Rory. I guess if somehow I cause disaster I can always restore to where I am.


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## MartinH. (Jun 23, 2020)

JohnG said:


> One accumulates so many addresses and some of them are old and just don't work very well now. But abandoning an email address from someone who's trying to reach you, who worked with you 10 years ago? No thanks!



Depending on where you have those accounts you could set up account-side mail forwarding to one of the addresses that's easier for you to use. I have a bunch of addresses forwarding mails to my primary account that way. 

A friend of mine has lots of problems with mail on his mac too. I wonder if there are better alternative e-mail clients available. I'm on windows, so I don't know, but I'd guess at least thunderbird should be an option, right?


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## jbuhler (Jun 23, 2020)

I stopped using Apple Mail on the Mac years ago (I still use it on iDevices), essentially because search/spotlight stopped being finding relevant email messages. I shifted to web-based mail. That too is now starting to not find relevant email messages on searches. I mean, email is a broken medium in general, but it doesn't help when basic functionality no longer works properly.


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## brandowalk (Jun 23, 2020)

sherief83 said:


> I have 10.15 on a work 2012 mac mini and a personal late 2012 mac mini. both with SSD and 16gb of ram. runs fine and i think that is the sweet spot for hardware spec for that particular OS. anything below and it does drag.
> 
> I run 10.14 on my Mac pro 2012 which has been very good.


Glad to hear re 2012 mac mini. I'm about to make the jump from High Sierra and have been holding off as long as possible. I want to get Final Cut Pro for videos and need the latest OS. Of course this means breaking ProTools 11.  HS worked fast at first but things are getting very slow for whatever reason and I'm hoping a new OS will help like it did last time. Not looking forward to subscription PT.


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## IFM (Jun 23, 2020)

JohnG said:


> I wonder if it's a laptop problem? I don't have good data at all, just me and one other user.
> 
> That said, it's so bad I would like to roll back to Mojave if I could ever find the time!


Could be? I have a MacBook that runs Catalina perfectly. Actually all my macs have no issues with it (2 x 2017 iMacs, 2013 MP, 2013 MacBook Pro, 2017 MacBook). There could be some weird hardware issue you have, heat issues maybe, so many things.


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## JohnG (Jun 23, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> A friend of mine has lots of problems with mail on his mac too. I wonder if there are better alternative e-mail clients available.



It may be Mac but actually I suspect it's the email providers. The one that works perfectly on all my devices is run by Google, on behalf of Stanford (google took over Stanford's alumni email some time ago). The rest stink rotten.



IFM said:


> There could be some weird hardware issue you have, heat issues maybe, so many things.



True -- could simply be some idiosyncratic matter that's hard to pin down. For all I know, rolling back isn't even going to help!


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## JohnG (Jun 23, 2020)

brandowalk said:


> Glad to hear re 2012 mac mini. I'm about to make the jump from High Sierra and have been holding off as long as possible. I want to get Final Cut Pro for videos and need the latest OS. Of course this means breaking ProTools 11.  HS worked fast at first but things are getting very slow for whatever reason and I'm hoping a new OS will help like it did last time. Not looking forward to subscription PT.



Bruv -- pardon me for questioning your sanity, but -- are you losing your hold on reality? I would never abandon a working PT setup unless theres' something you really need in the newer version. I clung to v9 for over 10 years and finally caved in to double the Delay Compensation. If you can't re-up and buy a permanent PT license, the present value of all those upgrades is surely worth a separate (even used) Mac??

Still, the new version does seem nice.


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## brandowalk (Jun 23, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Bruv -- pardon me for questioning your sanity, but -- are you losing your hold on reality? I would never abandon a working PT setup unless theres' something you really need in the newer version. I clung to v9 for over 10 years and finally caved in to double the Delay Compensation. If you can't re-up and buy a permanent PT license, the present value of all those upgrades is surely worth a separate (even used) Mac??
> 
> Still, the new version does seem nice.


Hah, you are right. I'd be a big dummy to break a working PT system (even if it can't play video or import correctly). I was going to talk myself into a new computer but that damm StaffPad software is taking up all of my time on my outdated 2nd generation iPAD. 

Maybe the question is what is a better video editor for mac than iMovie that runs on 10.13.6


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## JohnG (Jun 23, 2020)

brandowalk said:


> Maybe the question is what is a better video editor for mac than iMovie that runs on 10.13.6



IDK about video -- I'm just a poor woodcutter. 

But PT as you know is one finicky piece of kit, so if you 'break' what you have, it can cost $5-10k before you can say, "update."


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## ironbut (Jun 23, 2020)

Apple Mail drove me nuts with my gmail account.
I've been using Airmail for a couple of years now and I can't complain. 
I still use Apple Mail to create Mbox's but that's about the only time I open it.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Jun 23, 2020)

brandowalk said:


> Glad to hear re 2012 mac mini. I'm about to make the jump from High Sierra and have been holding off as long as possible. I want to get Final Cut Pro for videos and need the latest OS. Of course this means breaking ProTools 11.  HS worked fast at first but things are getting very slow for whatever reason and I'm hoping a new OS will help like it did last time. Not looking forward to subscription PT.


I was thinking about updating to 10.15 when Waves got the new SoundGrid software up and running, but then I heard so many bad reports about the bugs and performance issues... that I held off and now I don't even know what I will do.

On a 2018 Mac mini here. The Plan was to move to 10.15 ready for WWDC and see what comes, but looking at Big Sur and it's UI for children with big wide bars and wasted space... well I am not planning to move to that unless it can offer me serious performance improvement and stability (Since Apple will eventually drop support for Mojave on Logic)


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## Rory (Jun 23, 2020)

brandowalk said:


> Maybe the question is what is a better video editor for mac than iMovie that runs on 10.13.6



As of last fall, some people on the Blackmagic forum were saying that DaVinci Resolve 16 would run on High Sierra even though it isn't officially supported. If you don't want to use iMovie, but have an iPad 10.5" or larger, LumaFusion is a serious option.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 23, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Catalina still sucks if you have a somewhat older laptop (2015). I can't even get my MacBook Air to run properly on it. I have to restart it frequently and there is zero reason for it; only using (mostly) Safari and Mail.



I haven't had any issues with it on my early 2014 MacBook Air, and I only use it for Safari, Mail, Zoom, texting, and word processing.

Do you have enough RAM?


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## JohnG (Jun 23, 2020)

I'm going back to the original OS and already erased the disk. Everything is backed up.

Thanks for the help!



Nick Batzdorf said:


> Do you have enough RAM?



Fair question, but I can't remember how much RAM I have; I think 8 GB. It's ok. I only use it for mail and news and stuff, a little music when traveling. So it will be fine to use Mojave.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 23, 2020)

8GB is enough for basic stuff, but the stock 4GB is iffy.


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## jcrosby (Jun 23, 2020)

JohnG said:


> I'm going back to the original OS and already erased the disk. Everything is backed up.
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> ...


If you're using Apple mail why not have it backup all messages and contacts to icloud drive? if it's a big inbox it'd probably be worth paying for extra icloud space in the short term while you roll the machine back. Afterward you should be able to physically re-download all mail to the machine. (Mind you I don't use Apple mail or pay for icloud, however backing up mail to icloud's been an option for years...) That said I've worked with the included icloud drive for ios devices, the process shouldn't be any different.


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## whinecellar (Jun 23, 2020)

The OP could have ended the subject heading with the word “sucks.”


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## GtrString (Jun 23, 2020)

Catalina has been an issue here too. Mojave was the most rock solid OS X for me. I would suggest turning off Spotlight as that has caused issues. Also automatic Time Machine backups can cause issues.

This guide to set up the OS for music is good: https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/macos-10-15-catalina-optimization-guide-for-recording/


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## JohnG (Jun 24, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> 8GB is enough for basic stuff, but the stock 4GB is iffy.



"And now...the end is near...and now I face...etc."

Ok -- so first off, Nick's suspicion -- that I only have 4 GB of RAM -- turns out to be correct. I am thinking that's most likely an immovable object when it comes to Catalina. Theoretically, it can run (and it does) but not if you want to operate the way normal people do (email, web browser, maybe one or two other things going). You _can_ upgrade the RAM on a MacBook Air, according to an alarming "how to" guide involving a hot air gun to melt the RAM seating glue, but -- yikes!

Successfully rolled back to Mojave BUT...
...iPhone now can't communicate with laptop. So now I lack any way to sync music to my iPhone without shelling out for (significant) iCloud storage for iTunes music. And I guess I don't even know for certain if that will work, trying to transfer music via iCloud from one computer running Sierra or Mojave to an up-to-date IOS phone.

I hate to touch any computer running Pro Tools, but if I'm gambling, I can upgrade my Pro Tools iMac to Catalina and sell / give to a foster kid the MacBook Air, I reckon. PT can run on Catalina 10.15.5, according to Avid's site, though NOT 10.15.4 for some reason. Moreover, IDK about ye olde plugins and FX.

Consequently, for now, I will cry quietly in the corner.


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## Symfoniq (Jun 24, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Catalina still sucks if you have a somewhat older laptop (2015). I can't even get my MacBook Air to run properly on it. I have to restart it frequently and there is zero reason for it; only using (mostly) Safari and Mail.
> 
> I'm still on Sierra for my DAW computer and High Sierra for Pro Tools. So glad I never 'upgraded.'



I agree that Catalina is still a bit of a mess. I'm only running it because I can't install an older OS.

I've wondered about the slow pace of bug fixes to Catalina, but it's increasingly clear that Apple's focus is on Big Sur, which introduces far bigger changes than even Catalina.


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## jcrosby (Jun 24, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Successfully rolled back to Mojave BUT...
> ...iPhone now can't communicate with laptop. So now I lack any way to sync music to my iPhone without shelling out for (significant) iCloud storage for iTunes music. And I guess I don't even know for certain if that will work, trying to transfer music via iCloud from one computer running Sierra or Mojave to an up-to-date IOS phone.


That shouldn't be an issue. I find moving to a new os sometimes comes with a few quirks. icloud especially so. If you can't figure it out on your own, or someone here doesn't have a solution support should be able to get everything back in sync quickly.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 24, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Successfully rolled back to Mojave BUT...
> ...iPhone now can't communicate with laptop. So now I lack any way to sync music to my iPhone without shelling out for (significant) iCloud storage for iTunes music.



I wonder why your iPhone can't communicate with your laptop. Silly question, but is one of them on a different network, for example a guest network?

And while it won't sync music, there's a great free utility called DropCopy that lets you transfer files from an iOS device to a Mac. My Mac's Bluetooth card is too old for... is it Continuity that syncs over Bluetooth? Anyway, DropCopy takes its place.


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## JohnG (Jun 24, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I wonder why your iPhone can't communicate with your laptop. Silly question, but is one of them on a different network, for example a guest network?



It's definitely that the IOS is unable to communicate with the older OS. I'm connected with a USB cable. When I plug in the phone, the computer clearly recognizes the phone, because it says "if you wanna sync, have to update computer OS."

Or words to that effect.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 24, 2020)

JohnG said:


> It's definitely that the IOS is unable to communicate with the older OS.



Ah, right. My iPhone is too old for the latest iOS.


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## JohnG (Jun 24, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Ah, right. My iPhone is too old for the latest iOS.



Turns out Mojave is still pretty overwhelming for this MacBook so I'm going to go back to Catalina. It's not that much worse and at least I can get music onto the iPhone conveniently.

Thanks everyone for all your suggestions and help. Most appreciated.

Kind regards,

John


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## Rory (Jun 24, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Turns out Mojave is still pretty overwhelming for this MacBook so I'm going to go back to Catalina. It's not that much worse and at least I can get music onto the iPhone conveniently.
> 
> Thanks everyone for all your suggestions and help. Most appreciated.
> 
> ...



Sounds like the real problem is that you're trying to run a 4GB RAM computer in 2020. Maybe the iFixit solution that you understandably dismissed should be revisited. You can surely find a technician, or even a hardware savvy kid, who can add RAM for you for a pretty reasonable fee. Or if you just want a computer to hack around with, check out Arch Linux


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