# Looping audio files properly in Kontakt - seeking Keymap by Redmatica



## SeanM1960 (Nov 2, 2014)

Hi

So, I am interested to find out exactly how audio files are properly looped in Kontakt. 

I have recorded some flute over the weekend. The samples dont sound great - just ok - but it's my first attempt at sampling anything. I am finding it impossible to loop the samples in Kontakt. I know how to do it, but it's not working out too well. I can get the loop points to where there is no clicking and popping, but the transition is not smooth. If I put an x-fade at the beginning, that doesn't help, as there is too much of a bump at the point where it loops.

How do the pros do it? Is there some audio editing sw that does this, which leaves the loop points in tact so that Kontakt will recognize them? Any ideas? Thanks!


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## SeanM1960 (Nov 5, 2014)

Hi - so apparently, Redmatica Keymap is what I want. Is there a d/l link for this somewhere? I know that Redmatica is no longer in business, but has this been made available? I am not seeking an illegal link - I have never used cracked sw, and I am not about to start now. But I was wondering if there is a legitimate version to be had? Thanks!


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## d.healey (Nov 5, 2014)

It is completely unavailable from what I know. Look up endlesswav


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## Nathanael Iversen (Nov 5, 2014)

SampleRobot is the closest thing.


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## petejonesmusic (Nov 21, 2014)

I've also been looking for a copy of Keymap for an age and it appears to have been completely wiped from the earth! I'm wondering what other sample dev's out there use? I'm in a similar boat where I've got a few ideas and have started compiling things in Kontakt but am also finding it very time consuming and fickle - I've had a bit of a look at sample robot but it doesn't seemed that geared towards importing .wav files you might have created from other sources as opposed to using it to sample an analogue synth or something.

Are there any other programs out there that can help with the workflow of making a kontakt library?


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## d.healey (Nov 21, 2014)

Reaper and endlesswav are all you need


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## petejonesmusic (Nov 21, 2014)

Looks like Endlesswav is PC only which is a bit of a problem at my end. Is there any particular reason you'd recommend reaper over say, pro tools?

Thanks!


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## mk282 (Nov 21, 2014)

Reaper is cheap and it does the job remarkably well. You can render in batches using wildcards for file and folder naming, etc.


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## lpuser (Nov 21, 2014)

SeanM1960 @ Wed Nov 05 said:


> Redmatica Keymap is what I want. Is there a d/l link for this somewhere?



Sean, Redmatica has been taken over by Apple quite a long time ago, with the result that Redmatica has shut down business.
http://www.askaudiomag.com/articles/app ... -redmatica

There is no way to acquire a legit copy through dealers / distributors anymore, sorry.


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## petejonesmusic (Nov 21, 2014)

Do most of the commercial sample dev's still use the redmatica products that they purchased before Apple took it off the market or is there another solution out there that automates some of the more tedious tasks?


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## Lindon (Nov 21, 2014)

Which tedious tasks in particular?


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## petejonesmusic (Nov 21, 2014)

The setting up of loop points in the samples as well as an automated recording system for round robins / velocity levels etc. It also looks like Key Map would lay out all your samples on a keyboard, set up the loop points for you and export to a kontakt instrument where you could tweak further (I don't have a copy so I might be wrong but it seems like thats part of what it does!).


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## mk282 (Nov 21, 2014)

There's SampleRobot, at least helps with automatic recording of samples...


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## tcollins (Nov 21, 2014)

Does Reaper have a loop editing feature?


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## SeanM1960 (Nov 21, 2014)

TotalComposure @ Fri Nov 21 said:


> Reaper and endlesswav are all you need



You mean this thing?:

http://www.bjoernbojahr.de/images/endlesswav_.gif

I took a look at it - absolutely horrible.

As for Reaper - Reaper leaves loop points in tact that are recognized by Kontakt? If so, I am all over Reaper!


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## d.healey (Nov 21, 2014)

SeanM1960 @ Fri Nov 21 said:


> TotalComposure @ Fri Nov 21 said:
> 
> 
> > Reaper and endlesswav are all you need
> ...



Reaper doesn't have auto-looping capabilities unfortunately. 

Endless wav may not be the prettiest bit of software but it's easy to use, fast (even faster on a touch screen), and reliable. Only downside I have with it is the crossfades aren't recognised by Kontakt so if I need them I have to do them manually in Kontakt's horrible wave editor (unless I'm missing something).

I'm told sound forge has some auto looping capabilities but I've never looked into it.

Another program with promise is Sample Lord but I could never get it to work on Windows 7 or 8.
http://www.samplelord.com/index.php?page=news

If you find something better be sure to let us know


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## polypx (Nov 21, 2014)

Looping audio is an art, not really something software does for you at a mouse-click. The best kind of loop depends very much on the type of sound, the periodicity, the pitch, the noise content, the modulation, etc. Different looping methods work on different types of sound. If I start a new project that needs looping I might try 5 or 10 different techniques before I decide on the system to use for that library. It's a bitch, basically.

Kontakt will recognize loop points stored in a WAV or AIFF file... most software can save those formats.

cheers, Dan


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## Mike Greene (Nov 22, 2014)

polypx @ Fri Nov 21 said:


> Looping audio is an art, not really something software does for you at a mouse-click.


That's for sure. I use KeyMap and have gotten pretty good with it's parameters, but loops still take some time. It ain't as easy as the KeyMap videos made it seem. (The demo videos were mostly synth samples, which are very even and easy to loop.) There's a good percentage that KeyMap gets right on the first try, but then it's also common to take several minutes to find a decent loop.


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## Tod (Nov 22, 2014)

TotalComposure @ Fri Nov 21 said:


> Reaper doesn't have auto-looping capabilities unfortunately.
> 
> Endless wav may not be the prettiest bit of software but it's easy to use, fast (even faster on a touch screen), and reliable. Only downside I have with it is the crossfades aren't recognised by Kontakt so if I need them I have to do them manually in Kontakt's horrible wave editor (unless I'm missing something).
> 
> I'm told sound forge has some auto looping capabilities but I've never looked into it.



I used to use Sonar, but for the last 3 years or so I've been using Reaper to make my loops. Once I've got my loop points established, I put markers on them and save the samples with them imbedded. Then I've been loading the files into Wavosaur, which is free. It recognizes the imbedded markers as loop points which can then be saved and will work in Kontakt. 



polypx @ Fri Nov 21 said:


> Looping audio is an art, not really something software does for you at a mouse-click. The best kind of loop depends very much on the type of sound, the periodicity, the pitch, the noise content, the modulation, etc. Different looping methods work on different types of sound. If I start a new project that needs looping I might try 5 or 10 different techniques before I decide on the system to use for that library. It's a bitch, basically.
> 
> Kontakt will recognize loop points stored in a WAV or AIFF file... most software can save those formats.



Agree with you Dan, I've never found any software that can make good loop points. The only way I've found to make good loop points is using a multi track software like Sonar or Reaper.

Like you say, there are a lot of ways it can be done. The hardest are the solo instruments. Depending on the samples I many times duplicate the track and shift one of the samples forward as far as I can go, depending on how the sound and the waveforms line up. Then I'll cross fade between them using a Take envelope. The advantage to this is that you can use the same exact sample points, front and back, which makes a perfect loop. This usually works well with multi-voiced instruments but can be a lot harder with solo instruments.

I've also had good luck by reversing the duplicated sample and getting good loop points. 

You talk about 5 or 10 different techniques Dan, would you mind sharing some of those, if they're not to big of secret. o-[][]-o


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## Lindon (Nov 24, 2014)

I use ESC (Extreme Sample Converter), which does looping, auto recording and Kontakt(2 only) mapping....as well as sample(r) conversions

http://www.extranslator.com/


from the same people who give you Sample Lord mentioned above....

Windows only I'm afraid...


LMP


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## d.healey (Nov 24, 2014)

I can't get that one working on windows 8 64bit


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 24, 2014)

SeanM1960 @ Wed Nov 05 said:


> Hi - so apparently, Redmatica Keymap is what I want. Is there a d/l link for this somewhere? I know that Redmatica is no longer in business, but has this been made available? I am not seeking an illegal link - I have never used cracked sw, and I am not about to start now. But I was wondering if there is a legitimate version to be had? Thanks!



<OT>

No. Apple acquired Redmatica back in 2012. Since then, its completely disappeared off the market. We've seen absolutely no updates or word from Apple since. It was unfortunate because Andrea's support was second to none. (He literally would provide updates nearly 3 times a month). KeyMap began as a sample library utility for Logic EXS24 much like Redmatica ProManager (a brilliant utility for sample library organizational structuring) which probably were some of the reasons Apple had them in their sights. 

Keymap later expanded into integration with Native Instruments which made it even more valuable particularly to the sample library industry. We all thought when it was acquired that surely Apple would come out with this. 

The real magic behind KeyMap was Andrea however. I met him years ago at NAMM. He is a true genius. I had this thought at the time during the acquisition that it would be next to impossible for Apple to truly emulate what both KeyMap and ProManager did without Andrea to walk them through it. Without that support, it could take literally years for Apple to emulate what these products did technically. 

I also wondered about the wisdom of the acquisition because KeyMap and ProManager essentially added value to producers considering Logic after Apple acquired LogicPro from Emagic back in 2002. Logic did not skip a beat during that transition so it is disconcerting that its been three years since Redmatica was shuttered with no word whatsoever from Apple.

</OT>


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## mk282 (Nov 24, 2014)

Apple wanted Andrea as a programmer, not KeyMap the application. It's that obvious.


It's pretty much the same case with Efflam Le Bivic (ex-Mokafix Audio) who is an amazing programmer with some awesome DSP chops (his stompbox pedal and physical modeling instruments were AMAZINGLY well done). NI hired him to do GUIs instead of using his clever DSP to improve Guitar Rig (which sadly got overrun in amp emulation precision and faithfulness by other major and minor players in the game by now, like Scuffham, Ignite Audio, Kazrog, TSE, Overloud...).


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