# SPITFIRE - British Drama Toolkit Promo Price ENDING in 24 Hours!



## Spitfire Team (Jul 23, 2018)

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## Jaybee (Jul 23, 2018)

Not the Bruce Dickinson TAMBOURINE!!!! Oh my days.... there is a God!


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## 667 (Jul 23, 2018)

I hate when companies rely on facebook infrastructure to do things. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person in the world who's willing to put up with a little inconvenience to avoid supporting a company that is literally evil.

Sorry in advance for derail!


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## Mornats (Jul 23, 2018)

667 said:


> I hate when companies rely on facebook infrastructure to do things. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person in the world who's willing to put up with a little inconvenience to avoid supporting a company that is literally evil.
> 
> Sorry in advance for derail!



There'll most likely be a running commentary on this thread that you can follow. I'm sure between us all we can post updates here and keep you and others in the loop.


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## fretti (Jul 23, 2018)

@Spitfire Team would it be possible to also do a YouTube stream? Facebook streams are for me really slow and the quality doesn't do justice to whatever you are going to show us


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## fiestared (Jul 23, 2018)

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/BDT

*BDT Bangladesh Taka (ISO currency code)*
BDT Taka (currency of Bangladesh)
*BDT Telecommunication Development Bureau *
BDT Base de Dados Tropical (Tropical Data Base)
*BDT Best Demonstrated Technology 
BDT Business Development Team *
BDT Bone Dry Ton (biomass fuel requirements)
BDT Bulk Data Transfer (IBM)
*BDT British Summer Time (UTC+1h) *
BDT Brittle-Ductile Transition
BDT Büro Und Datentechnik (German)
BDT Bons du Trésor (French: Treasury Bills) 
? ? ?


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## thereus (Jul 23, 2018)

Big Dick Trombonists.


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## guydoingmusic (Jul 23, 2018)

thereus said:


> Big Dick Trombonists.


Or Tickler...??


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## SchnookyPants (Jul 23, 2018)

'*B*out *D*amn *T*ime


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## desert (Jul 23, 2018)

Announcement of the announcement


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## antonyb (Jul 23, 2018)

British Drama Toolkit?
Here at 0:34


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## rocking.xmas.man (Jul 23, 2018)

well, you're the second to spot that. In the other thread there was someone faster.


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## Theodor Andrews (Jul 24, 2018)

Brexit Drama Toolkit..?


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## MatFluor (Jul 24, 2018)

Mr. Edinburgh said:


> Hi Spitfire Team - it would be really nice, encouraging and outgoing of you - if you really care about your "customers" and "the community" if you held events outside for London once in a while - perhaps even Edinburgh?
> There is actually a world outside London, LA, NYC and Tokyo.
> Thanks



I second the idea of a Zurich event


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## ok_tan (Jul 24, 2018)

MatFluor said:


> I second the idea of a Zurich event




....or jakarta


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## Mateo Pascual (Jul 24, 2018)

They already set the bar high with APEX...


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## rottoy (Jul 24, 2018)

Mateo Pascual said:


> They already set the bar high with APEX...


Bar? Alcohol in moderation, people!


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## Mateo Pascual (Jul 24, 2018)

rottoy said:


> Bar? Alcohol in moderation, people!



Well, as someone was asking them to do events outside London... I thought the APEX event was something else. I mean, I don't know how they can go much further from London on a new event...

Edit: BTW I think I have probably misunderstood your post


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## paulmatthew (Jul 24, 2018)

SchnookyPants said:


> '*B*out *D*amn *T*ime


Well that would mean it’s a choir then


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## rrichard63 (Jul 24, 2018)

Does the person who guesses correctly get a free copy?


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## Vita Et Musica (Jul 24, 2018)

rrichard63 said:


> Does the person who guesses correctly get a free copy?


It's already been guessed/seen- British Drama Toolkit. Now, as to what that actually is... now that's worthy of some guessing. I'm gonna go with a bunch of woodwind and string staccato/spicatto stuff, maybe some string swells. Perhaps a simple piano for melody lines. Like pretty much every piece of music on Downton Abbey, The Crown, and The Great British Bake Off.


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## Phillip Dixon (Jul 24, 2018)

Spitfire are expanding their business model and moving into hardware
With the Black and Decker toolkit


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Jul 24, 2018)

A collection of reversed DnB loops - "Bass 'n' Drum Toolkit?"


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## Wally Garten (Jul 24, 2018)

Vita Et Musica said:


> It's already been guessed/seen- British Drama Toolkit. Now, as to what that actually is... now that's worthy of some guessing. I'm gonna go with a bunch of woodwind and string staccato/spicatto stuff, maybe some string swells. Perhaps a simple piano for melody lines. Like pretty much every piece of music on Downton Abbey, The Crown, and The Great British Bake Off.



If that goes well, I hope they follow up with a Doctor Who Toolkit.


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## Geoff Grace (Jul 24, 2018)

My guess is that "British Drama Toolkit" translates into more variety than in most Spitfire libraries, perhaps even the most variety of all of their releases (not including bundles, of course).

Best,

Geoff


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## fiestared (Jul 24, 2018)

[QUOTE="Vita Et Musica, post: 4259367, member: Like pretty much every piece of music on Downton Abbey, The Crown, and The Great British Bake Off.[/QUOTE]


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## MaxOctane (Jul 25, 2018)

Well, they did a great job with Bernard Herrmann (so much fun), so here's hoping for another creative and unique collection!


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## leon chevalier (Jul 25, 2018)

This is it :
"Stipfire British Drama Toolkit : inspired by our VI-Control threads"


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## Vischebaste (Jul 25, 2018)

Is it a bolphin in a dath tub?


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## Musicam (Jul 25, 2018)

When the choir? I have a heartache


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## willbedford (Jul 26, 2018)

Vita Et Musica said:


> It's already been guessed/seen- British Drama Toolkit. Now, as to what that actually is... now that's worthy of some guessing. I'm gonna go with a bunch of woodwind and string staccato/spicatto stuff, maybe some string swells. Perhaps a simple piano for melody lines. Like pretty much every piece of music on Downton Abbey, The Crown, and The Great British Bake Off.



'British Drama'.. I was thinking more Jeremy Kyle


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## James Marshall (Jul 26, 2018)

willbedford said:


> 'British Drama'.. I was thinking more Jeremy Kyle



Press MIDI note C3 to hear "GET A JOB!!!" meticulously sampled in multiple mic positions, in the beautiful Air Lyndhurst Hall.


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## Nao Gam (Jul 26, 2018)

James Marshall said:


> Press MIDI note C3 to hear "GET A JOB!!!" meticulously sampled in multiple mic positions, in the beautiful Air Lyndhurst Hall.


I've seen way more of this show than I'd like to admit and I'm not even british


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## SchnookyPants (Jul 26, 2018)

*B*ritish *D*amned *T*elevsion?


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## rottoy (Jul 26, 2018)

leon chevalier said:


> "Stipfire British Drama Toolkit : inspired by our VI-Control threads"


If there's not even a hint to this in the eventual walkthrough, I'll be disappointed.


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## NoamL (Jul 26, 2018)

*British Delicious Tarts*


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## leon chevalier (Jul 26, 2018)

rottoy said:


> If there's not even a hint to this in the eventual walkthrough, I'll be disappointed.


Me too, they own us an Easter egg about VIC drama


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## Spitfire Team (Jul 26, 2018)

​


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## robgb (Jul 26, 2018)

You lost me with no mod wheel crossfades.


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## Garry (Jul 26, 2018)

Loving this... definitely on my list.


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## Spitfire Team (Jul 26, 2018)

​


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## benuzzell (Jul 26, 2018)

That link just takes me to Spitfire Solo Strings. I'm guessing that's not right...


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## jneebz (Jul 26, 2018)

Spitfire Team said:


> ​



....
Wrong link


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## benuzzell (Jul 26, 2018)

jneebz said:


> ....
> Wrong link


Just realised the link on page 1 works


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## Spitfire Team (Jul 26, 2018)

jneebz said:


> ....
> Wrong link



All fixed!


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## Satorious (Jul 26, 2018)

Wow, I like...


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## Garry (Jul 26, 2018)

Absolutely beautiful - so inspiring - lots of different melodies shooting off in my head, just as he holds some basic chords. This is totally novel - nothing like this out there.


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## Grégory Betton (Jul 26, 2018)

I totally agree. I guess it will be an instabuy for me!


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## pfmusic (Jul 26, 2018)

Beautiful sound!


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## sostenuto (Jul 26, 2018)

Again and again, Homay's Audio /Demo tracks provide such powerful exposure to most new Libraries, without additional fanfare …. IMHO. 
Seeing one of her typical, classy videos, explaining her approach and content, would be a most welcome addition _ SOON!


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## Garry (Jul 26, 2018)

Wow - just watching Christian’s walkthrough now... oh, just heart-wrenching. Really emotional quality to this is so impressive.


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## leon chevalier (Jul 26, 2018)

Do want.... 

[The forces fighting inside him were gigantic, but despite his will, like a mountain slowly moving, he knew he has become a Spitfire fanboy at the very moment he pushed play on this Youtube walkthroughs]

You got me Spitfire guys, I'm not as strong as I thought...


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## Wolf68 (Jul 26, 2018)

excellent concept, love this! beautiful sounding!
are These new recordings? do I get an upgrade Discount when I own already certain spitfireaudio libraries?


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## ism (Jul 26, 2018)

My will broke 5 minutes into the intro. Usually i get at least as far as Homay's demo. So that's a new record.


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## sostenuto (Jul 26, 2018)

Early in my Spitfire collection process, and delighted to note CH's usage of Albion_Tundra in the BDT video. 
Gives me an early _leg-up _and makes BDT an instant add. Velocity emphasis plays heavily into my Keyboard-focused work. 
I am severely _MIDI-challenged_ and grateful for tools of this ilk !


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## Cinebient (Jul 26, 2018)

I was a bit scared it is another of the giant close to a grand libraries (nothing wrong with this) but then this came out and it´s an instant love. Wonderful tool and very expressive with not much space needed.


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## ism (Jul 26, 2018)

And here's why this is such a no brainer for me:

First - the orchestral swarm Clarinet Whisper patch left me completely in awe of its texture, completely sold on the notion of clarinet textures, and well primed for any library that would dramatically expand the textured clarinet concept (I like the woodwind evo, but despite some superficial similarities, I really don't think it's the same concept at all). I was actually really hoping BDT would somehow be something like "Albion VI : at the edge of clarinets" (which I would instinctively buy just as instantly - because who wouldn't want an all clarinet library with enough range to for all-clarinet arrangements of Part?)

But additionally, I've also been spending a lot of time with the new solo strings getting to know its nuances, which are equally amazing.

And one of the sweet spots of SsS is in its ability to reply subtlety add delicate fine details on a more impressionistic textural background.

So what really sealed the BDT concept for me is this notion of the top velocity layer as what I'd call a kind of "middle detail" brush. More textural that finely sampled SsS legatos, but more detail than an evo or Albion V.

Perhaps I'm leaning a bit heavily on the painting metaphor , but beyond the visceral response to the textures of this library, this concept of a "middle detail brush" just instinctively feels a layer of brush detail that I didn't even know I was missing.


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## bvaughn0402 (Jul 26, 2018)

Is that Homay Schmitz on the cover of this?


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## D Halgren (Jul 26, 2018)

ism said:


> And here's why this is such a no brainer for me:
> 
> First - the orchestral swarm Clarinet Whisper patch left me completely in awe of its texture, completely sold on the notion of clarinet textures, and well primed for any library that would dramatically expand the textured clarinet concept (I like the woodwind evo, but despite some superficial similarities, I really don't think it's the same concept at all). I was actually really hoping BDT would somehow be something like "Albion VI : at the edge of clarinets" (which I would instinctively buy just as instantly - because who wouldn't want an all clarinet library with enough range to for all-clarinet arrangements of Part?)
> 
> ...


It does seem to be a great match with Orchestral Swarm and the Olafur EVOs.


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## Vita Et Musica (Jul 26, 2018)

I'm feeling the same about this as most other Spitfire orch based samples- incredible sounding recordings and instruments, crap programming on the transitions between notes. For guys that record real orchestras so often, I just don't get why they settle for instruments that end up sounding so fake whenever you actually have to change notes... which, as it turns out, is often. You can't just smother things in copious amounts of reverb and think it's sufficient in covering up shortcomings. Nice price on this one, though. And the swarm patches used as texture pads sound like they'd be worth the investment.


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## ism (Jul 26, 2018)

I'm excited to see what more talented composers than myself can do with this, but just in case its of interest to anyone, here's a quick experiment where I'm mostly curious about how BDT might work with SsS.

In Christian's video he talks about "opening that aperture" via tundra - and if you listen closely I'm going for a bit of that with some of the Olafur chamber waves and just a touch of Tundra legato strings.

But mostly I'm try to see what happens if we go the other way and "focus the aperture", or maybe "resolve a foreground" to follow the photographic metaphor. Or sketch in some fine brush details over the impressionistic watercolour wash of the BDT texture, if you're inclined to a more painterly metaphor.




A very preliminary bit of noodling. But some interesting surprises.


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## rlw (Jul 26, 2018)

ism said:


> I'm excited to see what more talented composers than myself can do with this, but just in case its of interest to anyone, here's a quick experiment where I'm mostly curious about how BDT might work with SsS.
> 
> In Christian's video he talks about "opening that aperture" via tundra - and if you listen closely I'm going for a bit of that with some of the Olafur chamber waves and just a touch of Tundra legato strings.
> 
> ...



Liked this very much. Good  noodling


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Jul 26, 2018)

D Halgren said:


> It does seem to be a great match with Orchestral Swarm and the Olafur EVOs.


Thought exactly the same

I have OS and Tundra, so this is a given for me!
And I don't get to say this often, but for the short I am working on... this has the sound I have been looking for since starting it :D


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## angeruroth (Jul 26, 2018)

OMG  Yesterday I was just playing a Tundra multi, two hands on a weighted keyboard... and thinking... it would be nice to change how long notes work depending on velocity... and maybe with not too big sounds... and now I see this... and then I see CH doing exactly that with Tundra... please kill me...

[EDIT] I mean not worrying about knobs or sliders while playing.


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## Alex Niedt (Jul 26, 2018)

Vita Et Musica said:


> I'm feeling the same about this as most other Spitfire orch based samples- incredible sounding recordings and instruments, crap programming on the transitions between notes. For guys that record real orchestras so often, I just don't get why they settle for instruments that end up sounding so fake whenever you actually have to change notes... which, as it turns out, is often. You can't just smother things in copious amounts of reverb and think it's sufficient in covering up shortcomings. Nice price on this one, though. And the swarm patches used as texture pads sound like they'd be worth the investment.


Agreed. I realize more and more that I have a bunch of libraries that make me dread changing notes, though I love their textures. So I look at them as layering libraries, but it gets increasingly frustrating when maybe 1% of your massive collection of libraries is useful for truly realistic melodic work. 

With that said, I'll probably end up buying this just for the textures, because you can never have too many textures underneath while you struggle to create an even remotely realistic 5-second legato line...


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## aaronventure (Jul 26, 2018)

Vita Et Musica said:


> I'm feeling the same about this as most other Spitfire orch based samples- incredible sounding recordings and instruments, crap programming on the transitions between notes. For guys that record real orchestras so often, I just don't get why they settle for instruments that end up sounding so fake whenever you actually have to change notes... which, as it turns out, is often. You can't just smother things in copious amounts of reverb and think it's sufficient in covering up shortcomings. Nice price on this one, though. And the swarm patches used as texture pads sound like they'd be worth the investment.



Well, this isn't a virtual instrument, it's a sample library. A collection of samples.

Most of their product are sample libraries, they all fall apart with a slightly faster succession of notes, or a slightly faster modwheel movement. But that's fine—it's not what they're designed to do. You won't get an expressive melody line out of them without putting in a ton of work, and even then it'll sound frankensteined (whereas you can just play it in in realtime with some instruments), so you don't go to Spitfire if playability is something you want and value.

But you won't get these textures from a virtual instrument or pretty much any other library, and that's the point of these libraries. Can you make a transition from this sustaining textural cello to an expressive playable cello playing a soaring melody? You probably can, if your mixing skills are up to snuff, but that's your creative decision.

Apples and oranges. Different tools. You won't try and handle screws with a hammer. If you need this type of a hammer, go for it. But don't expect it to do the job of a screwdriver or a buzzsaw *unless it specifically says so*.

Also, that's a pretty neato interface, guys.


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## ka00 (Jul 26, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Most of their product are sample libraries, they all fall apart with a slightly faster succession of notes, or a slightly faster modwheel movement. But that's fine—*it's not what they're designed to do. You won't get an expressive melody line out of them* without putting in a ton of work, and even then it'll sound frankensteined



I think maybe this is his point. That it would be nice if more of these libraries _were_ designed to be capable of expressive melodic lines.


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## NoamL (Jul 26, 2018)

Sure they could sample legato.... and then the price would be higher.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 26, 2018)

This library is about legato but not in a sample traditional sense. The textures created by this library are very fluid. The closest thing to these are Evo's but this is way more specific, you can really dial in the individual texture. I can't think of anything in the market really like this, it is quite a brilliant concept and playing these multitude of textures is very rewarding. I think it is a bit of a niche product and not everyone should buy it, but if you get where it is coming from and can apply it to your composing needs it really works great. If you want to write your next violin concerto I'd steer clear of BDT but if you want evocative soundscapes that are played by live players with no harmonic restrictions this works like nothing else.


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## ka00 (Jul 26, 2018)

NoamL said:


> Sure they could sample legato.... and then the price would be higher.



Instead of additional mics and mixes as add-ons, I’d pay for a legato expansion pack in a heartbeat on something like this library or say LCO for example.


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## Alex Niedt (Jul 26, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Most of their product are sample libraries, they all fall apart with a slightly faster succession of notes, or a slightly faster modwheel movement. But that's fine—it's not what they're designed to do. You won't get an expressive melody line out of them without putting in a ton of work, and even then it'll sound frankensteined (whereas you can just play it in in realtime with some instruments), so you don't go to Spitfire if playability is something you want and value.


When walkthroughs and demos continue to demonstrate that musicians naturally gravitate toward melody and that these libraries often don't realistically facilitate that tendency, it's a valid point to bring up. My first impression of the walkthrough and demos made me feel like this is more of a pad library than what I'd consider a toolkit. I think I'm a bit puzzled by the marketing. If it was called Samuel Sim Textures, my expectations would be more in line with the reality of the product. But like I said before, I'll probably buy it anyway, because I'm a complete Spitfire obsessive, regardless of shortcomings.

Also, I'm totally on board with ka00's legato expansion pack idea.


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## Vita Et Musica (Jul 26, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Well, this isn't a virtual instrument, it's a sample library. A collection of samples.
> 
> Most of their product are sample libraries, they all fall apart with a slightly faster succession of notes, or a slightly faster modwheel movement. But that's fine—it's not what they're designed to do. You won't get an expressive melody line out of them without putting in a ton of work, and even then it'll sound frankensteined (whereas you can just play it in in realtime with some instruments), so you don't go to Spitfire if playability is something you want and value.
> 
> ...


I have never heard anyone try to make that distinction before. I could see what you are saying if you were trying to explain something like a Sonokinetic library, but not this. And you can't make that excuse when they are specifically touting both the texture and melodic aspects of this new product. In the video and the audio examples, when they play a melodic line, albeit 90% footballs, it just doesn't sound good... and I'm guessing that's because it sounds unnatural to have organic sounding, real instruments transition in such an unnatural way. I feel like this is the same thing that is said about every SF library that comes out- it's a texture library, not something to play a melody with. C'mon. Then just hand the samples over to Eric Persing and let him do something more awesome with them. Anyway, I sound much more bitter about this than I am. Like Craig said, if it works for what you do, great. I really like the EVO stuff, so if this is in the same vein I'll probably like it a lot.


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## angeruroth (Jul 26, 2018)

Damn, I couldn´t resist... Damn... but I´m happy about the lib. Very inspiring to me, at least for the moment, so I made this little improvisation using BDT and adding Tundra afterwards.


Every lib legato I hear feels fake to me, so I don´t care about that (and I agree with Craig about the texture-legato) but I do miss one thing: a *response curve*, like the one you find in the piano instruments. I find really hard to find the right amount of force I need to get a soft/nice transition between notes (I´m using a Yamaha P105 as midi controller).
I may be missing something here, but I think the experience would be really improved with a velocity curve, or maybe with an optional crossfade, or both...


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## aaronventure (Jul 26, 2018)

Vita Et Musica said:


> I have never heard anyone try to make that distinction before. I could see what you are saying if you were trying to explain something like a Sonokinetic library, but not this. And you can't make that excuse when they are specifically touting both the texture and melodic aspects of this new product. In the video and the audio examples, when they play a melodic line, albeit 90% footballs, it just doesn't sound good... and I'm guessing that's because it sounds unnatural to have organic sounding, real instruments transition in such an unnatural way. I feel like this is the same thing that is said about every SF library that comes out- it's a texture library, not something to play a melody with. C'mon. Then just hand the samples over to Eric Persing and let him do something more awesome with them. Anyway, I sound much more bitter about this than I am. Like Craig said, if it works for what you do, great. I really like the EVO stuff, so if this is in the same vein I'll probably like it a lot.



Well, doesn't matter what they say or show. They're trying to get your money. The smart way is, like with every product, to wait for reviews. Then you can see what it is and what it isn't, decide if that's for you and make an informed purchase. 



Alex Niedt said:


> made me feel like this is more of a pad library than what I'd consider a toolkit


Then that's what it is. Draw your own conclusions, absolutely. 

I saw the video, and to me it looks like a block chord toolkit. The block chord pieces will no doubt sound amazing, like the demos do, but block chords just aren't my thing. Some people live and breathe block chords, and they'll probably love this library, especially with such an accessible price. 

There's a business side of not including legato, too, but I won't talk about this in this thread, because it might create a discussion which isn't about this library. I'll talk about that elsewhere. 



angeruroth said:


> response curve


Doesn't Cubase have some MIDI insert or a way to modify velocity curves? Also, you can always use the multiscript in Kontakt (KSP > Preset > Factory > Transform > Change Velocity), no?


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## angeruroth (Jul 26, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Doesn't Cubase have some MIDI insert or a way to modify velocity curves? Also, you can always use the multiscript in Kontakt (KSP > Preset > Factory > Transform > Change Velocity), no?


Hmm? Thanks aaronventure! I´ll see if I that improves the way different sounds are fired using BDT.


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## D Halgren (Jul 26, 2018)

angeruroth said:


> Damn, I couldn´t resist... Damn... but I´m happy about the lib. Very inspiring to me, at least for the moment, so I made this little improvisation using BDT and adding Tundra afterwards.
> 
> 
> Every lib legato I hear feels fake to me, so I don´t care about that (and I agree with Craig about the texture-legato) but I do miss one thing: a *response curve*, like the one you find in the piano instruments. I find really hard to find the right amount of force I need to get a soft/nice transition between notes (I´m using a Yamaha P105 as midi controller).
> I may be missing something here, but I think the experience would be really improved with a velocity curve, or maybe with an optional crossfade, or both...



It has an adjustable velocity curve. It's up in the top left with the mic settings. Check the manual, or Sandy's how it works video.


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## MaxOctane (Jul 26, 2018)

That bass clarinet long is stellar.


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## mouse (Jul 26, 2018)

So is this going to be moved to the. . Drama Zone forum? Heh heh


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## Phillip Dixon (Jul 27, 2018)

Just listened to demos...all sound the same to me.. i cant help but think these type of libraries are just dumming down the skill sets of the composer...just string a few chords together....and bang your a creative
Still whatever floats your boat.


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## cola2410 (Jul 27, 2018)

Phillip Dixon said:


> Just listened to demos...all sound the same to me.. i cant help but think these type of libraries are just dumming down the skill sets of the composer...just string a few chords together....and bang your a creative
> Still whatever floats your boat.



With all the respect I would agree even having quite a few SF libs. Have anyone noticed over-using "beautiful" in all the walkthroughs, for other libraries too? Air room sound does wonders but it's somehow become SF DNA and probably the main attraction.
I remember one John Powell interview where he said he became a composer because he couldn't be a good player and he needed to simply pay bills. Block chords? Absolutely. But I can't convince myself I can do moving cues with this library, instead, it may force me be lazy and just layer pretending indie sounding. I know there is a big market for this but no, thank you.

P.S. Once I heard "toolkit" I thought it could be something similar to BHT which is absolutely marvellous. Quite a dissappointment for me stupid.


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## Grégory Betton (Jul 27, 2018)

> P.S. Once I heard "toolkit" I thought it could be something similar to BHT which is absolutely marvellous. Quite a dissappointment for me stupid.



I feel your disappointment, perhaps due to some overselling marketing.

Yet, what SF is doing there is just offering you new palettes of sounds. They may not match your taste or your needs every time, but do speak to a lot of guys if I judge not only by this forum.

*In the end, it's always a simple equation:*
1) A sample library producer creates something he finds worthy to share with the public (and hopes to make some profit of course).
2) Users are looking for cool new sounds and tools that suit their needs.
3) If the proposition matches the need (considering many criteria such as the price, quality of the library, new concepts it can provide, etc.), boom, it's a deal.

Sometimes, when I read some comments here, I feel like there is too much feeling involved. Perhaps just try to stick with how this library could help you along your composer's journey. If you share with objective details why it suits your or not, other guys that can empathize with you will thank you for your precious help.

PS: that advice should apply to me also :/


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## funnybear (Jul 27, 2018)

First off, congratulations to Spitfire for this release. I think the concept and tone is absolutely great! I definitely will add this to my palette.

I share the frustration in general that the tendency in the industry at the moment is to focus on color and tone as opposed to melodic play-ability but I see that more as a technical hurdle that will only slowly be moved.

The financial and technical cost of moving up the bar for fast melodic play-ability while at the same time keeping the amazing tone and color of libraries such as this new release from Spitfire is huge.

I don't think the addressable market / available price point would allow for the necessary investment.

Keeping a realistic tone with realistic fast play-ability would require (1) manifold larger sampling sessions, (2) be technically prohibitively difficult to realize with the current state of scripting.

But I am sure we get there eventually.

Well done Spitfire!


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## procreative (Jul 27, 2018)

Its certainly an interesting concept, a little reminiscent of Ensemblia. I think this will work best as the finished article as I imagine trying to transcribe parts out from a sketch with this will be more work than just composing with the individual tracks.

Its very enticing, if a little stylistically constricted into a certain narrow strand of "British Drama" that may come and go soon.

But very clever and nicely put together.


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## devonmyles (Jul 27, 2018)

So not totally Mod wheel free then? My wife isn't going to be happy when I tell her to put the Hoover down and give me a hand.

Congratulations, SA, it sounds very nice. Might have to give this one a whirl. Good intro price as well....


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 27, 2018)

Here is something I put together in 20 mins, I brought in Tina Cello near the end for a unison line. I probably won't do super fast melodies with BDT but it can play melodies in a very evocative way if you keep within it's confines.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x5oxwhghrssyi65/Cold and Alone.m4a?dl=0

I have just started messing around writing something pretty and i'm just loving the results.


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## sostenuto (Jul 27, 2018)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Here is something I put together in 20 mins, I brought in Tina Cello near the end for a unison line. I probably won't do super fast melodies with BDT but it can play melodies in a very evocative way if you keep within it's confines. *****
> I have just started messing around writing something pretty and i'm just loving the results.



Shows some of what can be done with talent and positive attitude. Tina is thoughtful touch.
Looking forward to your next exploration. At $149. what's not to luv ?


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## Wally Garten (Jul 27, 2018)

funnybear said:


> I share the frustration in general that the tendency in the industry at the moment is to focus on color and tone as opposed to melodic play-ability but I see that more as a technical hurdle that will only slowly be moved.



But also -- this is just one instrument. Spitfire just released a set of solo strings for melodic playing this month. Not every library is going to be the best at everything -- especially not at this price. I think it sounds great, and I would use the solo instruments, but I wouldn't necessarily expect them to have the melodic/legato chops of Virharmonic or Joshua Bell (or even the $60 Auddict solo violin).


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## LamaRose (Jul 27, 2018)

Coming from one who only owns one SF library - Olafur's Toolkit - this is pretty tempting... will definitely add to the wish list.


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## fretti (Jul 27, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Shows some of what can be done with talent and positive attitude.


Then just for reference/comparison: 20 mins, no talent (though in my defence: I'm in between exams right now so that was my "break"):


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## sostenuto (Jul 27, 2018)

The detailed critiques/criticisms are all learning info for me, so all is good. 
My current impressions are drawn from these latest 'early-adopter' creations, but mainly from Audio tracks provided in SF Intro package. 
I haven't found anything there which suggests something inconsistent with what BDT is meant to be; certainly nothing deceptive about its intended purposes. 
Will continue to follow and learn.


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## thereus (Jul 27, 2018)

Sounds great I'm the demos but 10 instruments in 2000 samples. Hmmm


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## yhomas (Jul 27, 2018)

NoamL said:


> Sure they could sample legato.... and then the price would be higher.



The premise here is for a professional to quickly get useful results; I am looking forward to the day when such a premise implies useful legato—capable of playing an actual melody line. 

But for now, since most composers are using orchestra samples to compose, and most orchestral samples are not well suited for melody, it isn’t surprising that we get a trend toward music being composed with a lack of melody. And this kind of music works well enough behind a picture anyway (often perhaps even better). And the fashion for lack of melody feeds back into what kind of libraries are made...


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## robgb (Jul 27, 2018)

Watched the walkthrough. Sounds beautiful. Looks difficult to play.



yhomas said:


> most orchestral samples are not well suited for melody


I don't think that's necessarily true.


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## Quasar (Jul 27, 2018)

yhomas said:


> But for now, since most composers are using orchestra samples to compose, and most orchestral samples are not well suited for melody, it isn’t surprising that we get a trend toward music being composed with a lack of melody. And this kind of music works well enough behind a picture anyway (often perhaps even better). And the fashion for lack of melody feeds back into what kind of libraries are made...



Excellent comment about a certain prevailing focus on mood rather than melody... I still think of music in terms of melody and rhythm rather than as something atmospheric in the service of something else, and have no interest in film scoring and all of that. But I see this (similar to Orchestral Swarm but another flavor altogether) as potentially most useful for layering & augmenting the flow and motion of more traditional, melodically-oriented music.

And there are still plenty of "straight forward" solo and ensemble orchestra libraries that are fine for writing melody IMHO.

I'm going to give myself some time to look more closely before the intro deadline, but as it stands now I am almost certainly inclined to purchase this.


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## Wunderhorn (Jul 27, 2018)

Busted.
I think the VI community is well interested in Spitfire offerings even without having to be tracked.


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## The Darris (Jul 27, 2018)

I'm really liking what I'm seeing and hearing...for the most part. However, in certain organist hands, this library can very quickly just sound like a pipe organ that has some how become an organic creature from the 15th century. So, if you like that sound, great. I wasn't too keen on that sound based on Paul's playing. However, some of the user demos shared here paint a different picture for me. These types of libraries are great when you need something that purist, orchestral libraries just can't do. Anytime I can find a library that has intuitively built patches derived from performances and phrases, I know it can enhance my work. 

I'm certainly on the fence with this one.


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## prodigalson (Jul 27, 2018)

The Darris said:


> I'm really liking what I'm seeing and hearing...for the most part. However, in certain organist hands, this library can very quickly just sound like a pipe organ that has some how become an organic creature from the 15th century. So, if you like that sound, great. I wasn't too keen on that sound based on Paul's playing. However, some of the user demos shared here paint a different picture for me. These types of libraries are great when you need something that purist, orchestral libraries just can't do. Anytime I can find a library that has intuitively built patches derived from performances and phrases, I know it can enhance my work.
> 
> I'm certainly on the fence with this one.



I suspect tat if one simply doesn't use the patches that have the woodwinds like a keyboard then the organ effect would be avoided.


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## The Darris (Jul 27, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> I suspect tat if one simply doesn't use the patches that have the woodwinds like a keyboard then the organ effect would be avoided.


I heard that effect with all of the patches demonstrated. I think it's simply because Paul is an organist and he plays in the keyboard like one. Thus, the effect I get from a lot of his demonstrations are very organ like to me. But yes, if you avoid playing it like that, you won't get that type of sound.


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## Vita Et Musica (Jul 27, 2018)

The demos guys are posting seem to just confirm what many (me included) are saying- they have a kind of disjointed pad feel. Maybe if people just treated them like pads and cranked up the release a bit, maybe added some creative delay, or slight distortion or granular effect it would sound better. As it is, it reminds me of what it was like playing a JV1080 with an orchestral expansion card... only with infinitely better source sound. I don't think SF is being deceptive, I just can't wrap my head around what they believe this and other products are exactly. Guess it doesn't really matter... as with all sample libraries- just do whatever you want with it. No rules.


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## Quasar (Jul 27, 2018)

The Darris said:


> I'm really liking what I'm seeing and hearing...for the most part. However, in certain organist hands, this library can very quickly just sound like a pipe organ that has some how become an organic creature from the 15th century. So, if you like that sound, great. I wasn't too keen on that sound based on Paul's playing. However, some of the user demos shared here paint a different picture for me. These types of libraries are great when you need something that purist, orchestral libraries just can't do. Anytime I can find a library that has intuitively built patches derived from performances and phrases, I know it can enhance my work.
> 
> I'm certainly on the fence with this one.


I noticed organ-like moments as well, which is of course extremely common for sample libraries in general (especially winds but not limited to them) when they're played percussively, as you would play a keyboard, in ways that lie outside of a library's particular strengths.

But I'm not worried about it I don't think. I suspect that the optimal use for BDT will be as a spice, and that it can add first-rate fluid enhancements when used appropriately in the perhaps limited use case scenarios in which it performs best.

And the price point reflects this. In terms of what is generally offered by Spitfire and other high-end, boutique symphonic instrument developers, the cost is quite reasonable IMHO.


----------



## angeruroth (Jul 27, 2018)

D Halgren said:


> It has an adjustable velocity curve. It's up in the top left with the mic settings. Check the manual, or Sandy's how it works video.


Wow, thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for 
Still, sometimes the jump between notes is too abrupt, but I think it is a matter of getting used to how it works, just like with any other lib, and improve my hands control.



Phillip Dixon said:


> Just listened to demos...all sound the same to me.. i cant help but think these type of libraries are just dumming down the skill sets of the composer...just string a few chords together....and bang your a creative
> Still whatever floats your boat.


Hmm, I don't think that's how this works... I mean, a lib can't write or play for you. It sounds really nice, yes, and that helps, but if a dumb amateur like me writes a horrible line for violin and an expert plays it with an awesome Stradivarius... Well, the music would be sh**t anyway. But if you can write something good, the better the sound the more enjoyable the result. But, yeah, the best tool will always be knowledge.



As a very very humble review, I'd say this is not a lib designed for short notes but for creating/supporting a mood and slow melodic lines (nothing epic here, but something very musical). Of course, you can play with Kontakt and FXs and do whatever you want with it.
Anyway, it sounds awesome, and it is nice to forget about the screen/knobs/etc. for a while, but you still need to use CCs as always, so in my first tests I'm setting exp at 50% and painting some changes here and there after playing.

As someone said before, yes, the chords are nice. I think that's the point of using both hands to play the keyboard. Single lines sound a bit thin sometimes, but I'm not sure if that's 'cause the way I'm playing, or if I should just add something just to add weight.

Now, about Tundra (Albion V), the room difference is making me crazy. I can't find the right reverb/preset/conf. I only have Spaces, REVelation and REVerence, and I know there must be a way to do it right, but... I just wanted to play... So I'll have to try another day.
But, on the bright side, the sound itself matches pretty well between both libs.

So, yeah, this lib doesn't do your work as composer. It just sounds nice and inspiring, at least to me, and, somehow, feels alive even when playing like me (with horse hands).

Not sure if it really is a niche lib or not, nor I understand why that matters, but that's for knowledgeable people to discuss.


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## 667 (Jul 27, 2018)

Thought it looked cool, love the idea of building your own palettes from the available layers. Also I really like the stuff with more movement, such as Olafur Chamber Evolutions (which is my fav string library and I own a lot of them). I've always been about texture and sound more than writing a lot of notes so this stuff is perfect for me.

Wish there was some brass but I'll just use AlbionII for that because Euphoniums (Euphonia?) are awesome.


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## The Darris (Jul 27, 2018)

Quasar said:


> I noticed organ-like moments as well, which is of course extremely common for sample libraries in general (especially winds but not limited to them) when they're played percussively, as you would play a keyboard, in ways that lie outside of a library's particular strengths.
> 
> But I'm not worried about it I don't think. I suspect that the optimal use for BDT will be as a spice, and that it can add first-rate fluid enhancements when used appropriately in the perhaps limited use case scenarios in which it performs best.
> 
> And the price point reflects this. In terms of what is generally offered by Spitfire and other high-end, boutique symphonic instrument developers, the cost is quite reasonable IMHO.


The only thing it's missing for me and why I'm on the fence is lack of other instrumentation/colors. The one area Spitfire lacks is really cool percussion textures. They have a great orch perc library as well as a ton of epic percussion and extended technique kits but imagine if they applied their concepts like this and EVO Grid to different melodic percussion ensembles like Vibes, Marimba, and Crotales (together). Their Swarm libraries are the closest thing I can think of but that library was about a massive number of instruments taking up all the space. I want something like this, smaller scale in nature and about intimacy but with percussion instruments too. To me, it just seems like they scratched the surface with this library and could totally have done a few more instruments, especially piano.


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## angeruroth (Jul 27, 2018)

Hmm, the organ like sound... Sometimes that's hard to avoid here, even using only string patches. Sometimes I like that, but other times...


Quasar said:


> I suspect that the optimal use for BDT will be as a spice, and that it can add first-rate fluid enhancements when used appropriately


I think this could be an easy way to avoid that organ like sound when needed. That, and maybe playing just two lines and not full chords.

[EDIT]Attached an image that explains why my current test sounds organish like.


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## sostenuto (Jul 27, 2018)

angeruroth said:


> Now, about Tundra (Albion V), the room difference is making me crazy. I can't find the right reverb/preset/conf. I only have Spaces, REVelation and REVerence, and I know there must be a way to do it right, but... I just wanted to play... So I'll have to try another day.
> But, on the bright side, the sound itself matches pretty well between both libs.
> 
> So, yeah, this lib doesn't do your work as composer. It just sounds nice and inspiring, at least to me, and, somehow, feels alive even when playing like me (with horse hands).



Minimal SF Libs so far, and CH's video comment re. Tundra was encouraging ….  
Also have Albions One, Loegria, and Orch Swarm … hoping British Grove venue can work ok ?


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## JT (Jul 27, 2018)

For those like myself who aren't keyboard players, I don't have the skills to delicately control my velocity when playing. 

For anyone who's tried this library, what's your impression, do you need to have good keyboard chops to make this library work well?


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## ism (Jul 27, 2018)

d


sostenuto said:


> Minimal SF Libs so far, and CH's video comment re. Tundra was encouraging ….
> Also have Albions One, Loegria, and Orch Swarm … hoping British Grove venue can work ok ?




I wonder if realism is the point here?

One of the (perhaps quite surprising) things I found from playing around with BDT and SsS is that the different rooms/ recording is that they do work on different sonic planes, which you can set in a kind of 'acoustic counterpoint' to each other. 


There's a raw, kind of almost blurriness to the BDT textures, which is fun to then bring into contact with the I'm going to say 'definedness' of SsS which comes across in both the pristine AIR ambience, as well as in, for instance, the way the legatos are very detailed in their note transition. Actually 'pristine' and 'detailed' are maybe not quite the right metaphors here, but hopefully you get the idea. 

And to use Christian's metaphor of aperture, its like you're composing with focal lengths, bringing different layers in focus, not just in the standard sense of the orchestration, but on a kind of sonic level also, which is not necessarily strictly realistic, but it does sound great.

I've also found the close mics (disabled by default) help in blending. Which is unsurprising with a very detail orient library like SsS. But, well even though Tundra is very ambient and textural and background-y in a certain sense, its also extremely detailed in the sense of its sound quality and whatever it is that quality of the AIR sound is. Which I'd speculate is maybe why I found I like to include the close mic in blending BDT with Tundra also.


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## ism (Jul 27, 2018)

JT said:


> For those like myself who aren't keyboard players, I don't have the skills to delicately control my velocity when playing.
> 
> For anyone who's tried this library, what's your impression, do you need to have good keyboard chops to make this library work well?




I have this same problem - although I like to blame it at least in part of my keyboard. In fact I find it almost physically impossible to hit a key with 127 velocity (without using both hands) on this keyboard. 

But the solution is just to set a custom velocity curve. And to fix mistakes in the midi afterwards.


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## angeruroth (Jul 27, 2018)

JT said:


> For those like myself who aren't keyboard players, I don't have the skills to delicately control my velocity when playing.
> 
> For anyone who's tried this library, what's your impression, do you need to have good keyboard chops to make this library work well?





ism said:


> I have this same problem - although I like to blame it at least in part of my keyboard. In fact I find it almost physically impossible to hit a key with 127 velocity (without using both hands) on this keyboard.
> 
> But the solution is just to set a custom velocity curve. And to fix mistakes in the midi afterwards.


Same here. I'm not a good piano player but I like weighted keys. After changing the velocity curve to a custom one I find it much easier to play than before.


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## JT (Jul 27, 2018)

How do you change the velocity curve? Is it a setting in Kontakt or something in my DAW? (Logic)


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 27, 2018)

JT said:


> For those like myself who aren't keyboard players, I don't have the skills to delicately control my velocity when playing.
> 
> For anyone who's tried this library, what's your impression, do you need to have good keyboard chops to make this library work well?



I am a poor keyboard player, couldn't cover a song on a gig, that said I am used to playing into a DAW for many years now but still i'd call myself a poor keyboard player and i'm enjoying the library.


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## angeruroth (Jul 27, 2018)

JT said:


> How do you change the velocity curve? Is it a setting in Kontakt or something in my DAW? (Logic)


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## yhomas (Jul 27, 2018)

Quasar said:


> Excellent comment about a certain prevailing focus on mood rather than melody... I still think of music in terms of melody and rhythm rather than as something atmospheric in the service of something else, and have no interest in film scoring and all of that. But I see this (similar to Orchestral Swarm but another flavor altogether) as potentially most useful for layering & augmenting the flow and motion of more traditional, melodically-oriented music.
> 
> And there are still plenty of "straight forward" solo and ensemble orchestra libraries that are fine for writing melody IMHO.
> 
> I'm going to give myself some time to look more closely before the intro deadline, but as it stands now I am almost certainly inclined to purchase this.



I agree. I am not a professional nor do I have tight deadlines, but this still seems like a nice concept even without available legato. I very well might buy it at $150; but if it had legato and was $300, maybe I wouldn't buy it.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 27, 2018)

For those who find it cumbersome to use for certain type of melodies use something else for that but let BDT support it. Performance type samples are where it is at these days, the days of static sampling are passe. Spitfire, 8dio and Orchestral Tools (Sonokinetic does too but it is a bit different) all have performance styled libraries and it adds life to virtual music.


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## yhomas (Jul 27, 2018)

robgb said:


> I don't think that's necessarily true.



Try listening to any famous classical music that you would recognize (Bach/Mozart/Beethoven/etc.) played on a VI. As of 2018, it's rare for a classical mockup--done with any VI--to ever be pleasant for a casual listen by a layperson. The basic cause of this is that libraries can't do convincing melody lines (because achieving this is very hard to do).

Music that sounds pleasant on current sample libraries generally either lacks strong melodies entirely, or has melodies that are specifically contrived to sound good on the samples in question. This is the state of technology; obviously, things were a lot worse 10 years ago, and hopefully things will be better 10 years from now.


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## Phillip Dixon (Jul 27, 2018)

I have to disagree...i have heard some great pieces on this very forum that if i did not know were mocked up ,i would struggle to discern the difference..from a recorded ochestra...even live recorded media music these days is processed to some degree . A live concert is a different thing... And most consumers of music
Wouldent know a basson from a wet fart[/QUOTE]
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its a f.....g
duck


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## yhomas (Jul 27, 2018)

Phillip Dixon said:


> I have to disagree...i have heard some great pieces on this very forum that if i did not know were mocked up ,i would struggle to discern the difference..from a recorded ochestra...even live recorded media music these days is processed to some degree . A live concert is a different thing... And most consumers of music
> Wouldent know a basson from a wet fart



I agree that there exist convincing mockups which are pleasant to listen to--but these are usually original compositions where the notes have been (to some extent) contrived to suit the samples used. Most commonly, this involves compositions not having strong lyrical melodies. 

It is a much more difficult thing to take an established famous classical work (which will invariably have strong melodies) and play it with virtual instruments to play it such that the result is pleasant.

These are virtual orchestras. Why don't developers usually showcase the capability of their samples with mockups of classical music? Because they can't do it with good results.


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## robgb (Jul 27, 2018)

yhomas said:


> or has melodies that are specifically contrived to sound good on the samples in question.


So, in other words, they ARE well-suited for melody—if you're creating something new—but not necessarily well-suited for established classical music melodies? I will agree that the most successful mockups are those that play to the strengths of the sample libraries, but that can and often does include melody. For example:



I'd also suggest that most people buying sample libraries are not looking to mockup classic pieces, but create new music.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 27, 2018)

Craig Sharmat said:


> For those who find it cumbersome to use for certain type of melodies use something else for that but let BDT support it. Performance type samples are where it is at these days, the days of static sampling are passe. Spitfire, 8dio and Orchestral Tools (Sonokinetic does too but it is a bit different) all have performance styled libraries and it adds life to virtual music.



At first when I bought 5 evos, I was so excited about the new realm of possibilities (with evolving samples). After a while, I realised that it's all just pad work and nothing more. Perhaps if you're writing for a TV show where music is essentially an afterthought, you may need 50,000 samples of different pads (and 1 button press to "compose" your score).

To say static sampling is passe is silly and I would counter with the argument that "moving textures" is the next musical fad.


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## robgb (Jul 27, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Perhaps if you're writing for a TV show where music is essentially an afterthought


Whoa.


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## yhomas (Jul 27, 2018)

robgb said:


> So, in other words, they ARE well-suited for melody—if you're creating something new—but not necessarily well-suited for established classical music melodies? I will agree that the most successful mockups are those that play to the strengths of the sample libraries, but that can and often does include melody. For example:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd also suggest that most people buying sample libraries are not looking to mockup classic pieces, but create new music.




I agree it sounds nice, but this is a very simplistic melody here--doubled by a piano and well covered up harmonically.

The main point of using famous classical works for my example is that you know the tune. Once you know how it should sound, your brain is more sensitive to what is wrong. This is why developers don't (often) do demos with established music.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 27, 2018)

On a rare occasion i'm asked to mock up a classical piece for work, If you make a living at this you want tools that emote and accentuate whatever medium you are writing for. Many of these libraries do a great job.

Thats my 2cents on this matter, if you want to continue a conversation about the pros and cons of using samples for melody start a thread in sample talk, this is a Spitfire thread.


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## dcoscina (Jul 27, 2018)

Craig Sharmat said:


> On a rare occasion i'm asked to mock up a classical piece for work, If you make a living at this you want tools that emote and accentuate whatever medium you are writing for. Many of these libraries do a great job.
> 
> Thats my 2cents on this matter, if you want to continue a conversation about the pros and cons of using samples for melody start a thread in sample talk, this is a Spitfire thread.


I played around with this for a few minutes today and I had tons of terrific harmonic and melodic ideas that came out of the inspiring motion of the textures. You can even pull of some Ligeti styled stuff with this. I’m more impressed than I expected to be to be honest. 

Kudos Christian and Paul on yet another inspiring addition to your line.


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## robgb (Jul 27, 2018)

yhomas said:


> This is why developers don't (often) do demos with established music.


Agreed. But there's no reason they should.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 27, 2018)

robgb said:


> Whoa.


That was more a jab at the industry than composers.


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## blougui (Jul 27, 2018)

devonmyles said:


> So not totally Mod wheel free then? My wife isn't going to be happy when I tell her to put the Hoover down and give me a hand.
> 
> Congratulations, SA, it sounds very nice. Might have to give this one a whirl. Good intro price as well....



Buy a pedal ! And then help your wife do the cleaning.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 27, 2018)

I’m a decent keyboard player, but the main ensemble patch is hard to control.
I did a track today and ended up using three patches on three tracks- much easier to get some accurate layering that way, imo.


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## Saxer (Jul 28, 2018)

Decades ago I made some texture pad patches out of existing libraries. String tremolos with triangle trems and a few single harp and piano notes here and there. Or occasional trills and staccatos of woodwinds etc. Similar concept like BDT but without the dynamic layers. I can't say how much I used this patches over the years. Last time yesterday. I never used one of them alone but it's so great to add an extra dimension to existing cues. Just one or two notes here and there in the background helps to de-midi-fy the whole picture. So for the soft textures alone BDT is an instant buy for me!

To use it as a 'solo' patch to compose I think it's too restricted. Probably fun to play but once heard by a director for a drama it's burnt. But as a layer especially the soft textures will probably be great!


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## devonmyles (Jul 28, 2018)

blougui said:


> Buy a pedal ! And then help your wife do the cleaning.



I didn't say she was doing the cleaning - That's my job. I wrote, "Put the Hoover down"...Because she was holding & admiring my Hoover.
To be honest, I don't like anyone holding my Hoover, it's for my use only.


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## Michael Antrum (Jul 28, 2018)

devonmyles said:


> I didn't say she was doing the cleaning - That's my job. I wrote, "Put the Hoover down"...Because she was holding & admiring my Hoover.
> To be honest, I don't like anyone holding my Hoover, it's for my use only.



Great recovery..... I think you might get away with it this time........


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## Quasar (Jul 28, 2018)

yhomas said:


> These are virtual orchestras. Why don't developers usually showcase the capability of their samples with mockups of classical music? Because they can't do it with good results.



My guess would be that - regardless of whether what you say is true or not - we don't often hear this because it would be a lot more time-intensive work to do a proper mockup of a full-blown "classical" piece and it would do little or nothing to help sell the library anyway. Some of the ambient nature of what we hear in promos is no doubt an attempt to highlight the sonics of the product in as neutral of a way as possible, so as not to alienate potential customers who don't happen to like a particular composer or genre of music.

But why should 21st century VIs sound exactly like mid-20th century recordings of 19th century post-Romantic music recordings anyway? And what is our frame of reference for determining what realism sounds like? A live orchestra hall? An LP played on a 1970s-era home entertainment system? A transistor radio? An mp3 carried via Bluetooth earbud and an iPhone?

If technology had developed in such a way that 78 RPM records played on hand-cranked Victrolas remained the norm until we had computers and sample libraries, we might be complaining that digital music is unrealistic because it sounds too stereo-ish, that it lacks that true tinny, mono character that defines our sense of realism.


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## aaronventure (Jul 28, 2018)

Quasar said:


> My guess would be that - regardless of whether what you say is true or not - we don't often hear this because it would be a lot more time-intensive work to do a proper mockup of a full-blown "classical" piece and it would do little or nothing to help sell the library anyway. Some of the ambient nature of what we hear in promos is no doubt an attempt to highlight the sonics of the product in as neutral of a way as possible, so as not to alienate potential customers who don't happen to like a particular composer or genre of music.
> 
> But why should 21st century VIs sound exactly like mid-20th century recordings of 19th century post-Romantic music recordings anyway? And what is our frame of reference for determining what realism sounds like? A live orchestra hall? An LP played on a 1970s-era home entertainment system? A transistor radio? An mp3 carried via Bluetooth earbud and an iPhone?
> 
> If technology had developed in such a way that 78 RPM records played on hand-cranked Victrolas remained the norm until we had computers and sample libraries, we might be complaining that digital music is unrealistic because it sounds too stereo-ish, that it lacks that true tinny, mono character that defines our sense of realism.



Realism isn't in recording or mixing techniques, or even the recording space. It's in the expression and fluidity of a performance.


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## Quasar (Jul 28, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Realism isn't in recording or mixing techniques, or even the recording space. It's in the expression and fluidity of a performance.


That's arguably a valid way to look at it. My broader point is that the word "realism" gets thrown around in lots of different, often unreflected ways, and (just to play devil's advocate) I could counter that superior expression and fluidity pertains more to virtuosity than it does to realism. I can't play the violin at all, but I could pick one up and start making noise with it. It wouldn't be pleasant or musical to listen to, but the sounds would most certainly be real. 

By the same token, any sound I generate on a MIDI keyboard with any virtual violin is a real sound, and since a virtual violin is not a real violin any more than a portrait of Winston Churchill is the person of Winston Churchill, at the end of the day there is only _good_ music or _bad_ music. Realism has nothing to do with it, though we may prefer a better allusion to a real violin, just as we probably prefer the Churchill portrait that "looks just like him!" or whatever...


----------



## rocking.xmas.man (Jul 28, 2018)

couldn't that velocity based switching of different sounds - textures vs emotive single notes - be possible via a kontakt multiscript. I think the evo libraries are capable of enough material that could be used to great effect in that way. Imagine a lowest layer of a grid from oace, topped by a more intense single articulation and as upper layer just the waves...
still nice library.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 28, 2018)

In the Facebook Stream video, Samuel Sim mentions a re-triggering problem with evolving patches that BST attempts to solve. The problem is when you have an evolving patch but hit a new key, it retriggers the pattern from the beginning. Which seems like a version of the machine gun effect to me.

I'm wondering how BST solves the problem. Is there a round robin, or better yet is there a way to control or randomize the patch's start and end points? I'm curious about what's going on under the hood.

Similarly, I'm wondering about the effect of velocity within a single articulation range. Say you are within the soft range so you are only getting the soft articulation (and not texture or loud), does playing at the bottom of that range play the exact same sound at the exact same volume as playing at the top of that range?


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## angeruroth (Jul 28, 2018)

I just _finished_ another test mixing BDT and Tundra, this time using only strings.


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## Nao Gam (Jul 28, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> After a while, I realised that it's all just pad work and nothing more. Perhaps if you're writing for a TV show where music is essentially an afterthought, you may need 50,000 samples of different pads (and 1 button press to "compose" your score).
> 
> To say static sampling is passe is silly and I would counter with the argument that "moving textures" is the next musical fad.


It really irks me when people say that. Pads are not there just to create soulless beautiful clones that get the job done without much effort. They work great as a foundation, providing atmosphere and filling the low dynamics (for which there's plenty of room) and the awkward silences, so the melodies can sit better on top. If more people understood that we'd have less half empty pieces whose writers get off by building crazy fast complex arpeggios, like it's some sort of competition who's gonna go faster. Maybe 300 years ago when composers had pen, paper and a piano for sketching and a limited orchestra that way of writing was the only way to impress.


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## yhomas (Jul 28, 2018)

rocking.xmas.man said:


> couldn't that velocity based switching of different sounds - textures vs emotive single notes - be possible via a kontakt multiscript. I think the evo libraries are capable of enough material that could be used to great effect in that way. Imagine a lowest layer of a grid from oace, topped by a more intense single articulation and as upper layer just the waves...
> still nice library.



Conceptually, the BDT is basically an evo at low velocities and a more normal note at higher velocities. I have no experience with this, but it would surely be possible to set up the segmented velocity range for different libraries without needing any scripting. If there isn’t a velocity range limit within the library it’s self, there are midi plugins which can filter notes based on velocity ranges. So, anyone could set this up, but it would be a pain. IMO, it would probably be well worth $150 just to have someone take care of the setup process and put it into a convenient and useful form.

This brings up a potentially interesting idea for an expanding the BDT concept. Spitfire could take their existing normal libraries—for example, chamber strings—and match it up with the appropriate evolutions—e.g. OA Chamber Evolutions. They wouldn’t necessarily need any new samples, and prototyping it wouldn’t even require software development. They could sell it as a lower cost expansion for owners of both libraries, or a higher cost standalone package.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 28, 2018)

yhomas said:


> Conceptually, the BDT is basically an evo at low velocities and a more normal note at higher velocities. I have no experience with this, but it would surely be possible to set up the segmented velocity range for different libraries without needing any scripting. If there isn’t a velocity range limit within the library it’s self, there are midi plugins which can filter notes based on velocity ranges. So, anyone could set this up, but it would be a pain. IMO, it would probably be well worth $150 just to have someone take care of the setup process and put it into a convenient and useful form.
> 
> This brings up a potentially interesting idea for an expanding the BDT concept. Spitfire could take their existing normal libraries—for example, chamber strings—and match it up with the appropriate evolutions—e.g. OA Chamber Evolutions. They wouldn’t necessarily need any new samples, and prototyping it wouldn’t even require software development. They could sell it as a lower cost expansion for owners of both libraries, or a higher cost standalone package.



I'm not sure the repackaging idea would work in most cases. Maybe Tundra? In the FB video, Sam described the issue they are addressing as "cold chords". I think they gave a lot of attention in the recording session to make sure players keep re-bowing and re-blowing and keep the chords from going cold, so to speak.


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## dpasdernick (Jul 28, 2018)

This kinda-sorta reminds me of Heavyocity's Intimate and/or Rhythmic Textures. I know this is not just strings but the concept seems close. It does sound lovely.


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## dcoscina (Jul 28, 2018)

Put this together in a few minutes. Will build on it more but I love how inspiring this new library is.


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## yhomas (Jul 28, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I'm not sure the repackaging idea would work in most cases. Maybe Tundra? In the FB video, Sam described the issue they are addressing as "cold chords". I think they gave a lot of attention in the recording session to make sure players keep re-bowing and re-blowing and keep the chords from going cold, so to speak.



In that scenario, they would need to record new, more suitable evos—but this is a fairly small set of samples to make. In any case, the main point is that for the top layer, we have available, a full featured legato (with multiple dynamics and perhaps vibrato options, etc.).


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## Cinebient (Jul 28, 2018)

dpasdernick said:


> This kinda-sorta reminds me of Heavyocity's Intimate and/or Rhythmic Textures. I know this is not just strings but the concept seems close. It does sound lovely.



Exact, and the reason i know i like this as well. This works wonderful together with RT f.e.
I really like to use these tools for layered soundscapes and pad sounds which i then perform trough the whole track or even as track on it´s own. Of course there are no rules. Love it or leave it!


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 28, 2018)

yhomas said:


> In that scenario, they would need to record new, more suitable evos—but this is a fairly small set of samples to make. In any case, the main point is that for the top layer, we have available, a full featured legato (with multiple dynamics and perhaps vibrato options, etc.).


That would be nice to have too, but I think the idea of BDT is if you want to hold long soft chords but your current libraries sound too static. This gives more detail within the held chords.

I see legato as best suited to movement done monophonically. Personally, I'd play in the legato with a different library like Spitfire's Solo Strings.


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## midi-et-quart (Jul 28, 2018)

Sounds really nice! Unfortunately no legato but I guess that would have doubled (at least) the amount of work they already put in recording this library. It reminds me a bit of 8dio's arc techniques, they sound great but they really have to fit the style you're looking for.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 28, 2018)

Here is one last example.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m3ox9vazxpxln6k/The Lite of Day.m4a?dl=0

Asking a 149 dollar library to do great legato along with everything else it does is asking a bit much (but hey there is no harm in asking.... It can play melodies within it's range but I believe it can embellish other libraries like nothing else. In my demo there are 2 other instruments, Tina Cello and VIR violin, Used them only as solo instruments, everything else is BDT.


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## Geoff Grace (Jul 28, 2018)

My view is that British Drama Toolkit can be a 21st century version of a Mellotron. It's much more sophisticated than a Mellotron—and it can be used in other ways—but it encourages one to play in a Mellotron style, and it has a similar instant gratification result.

Best,

Geoff


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## midi-et-quart (Jul 28, 2018)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Here is one last example.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/m3ox9vazxpxln6k/The Lite of Day.m4a?dl=0
> 
> Asking a 149 dollar library to do great legato along with everything else it does is asking a bit much (but hey there is no harm in asking.... It can play melodies within it's range but I believe it can embellish other libraries like nothing else. In my demo there are 2 other instruments, Tina Cello and VIR violin, Used them only as solo instruments, everything else is BDT.


In this case I would of course have been ready to pay the double.
Nice demo by the way ! Thanks for sharing.


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## Garry (Jul 28, 2018)

Some incredible examples being posted with this library. I'm totally sold on it. Great concept, beautifully executed.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jul 28, 2018)

robgb said:


> So, in other words, they ARE well-suited for melody—if you're creating something new—but not necessarily well-suited for established classical music melodies? I will agree that the most successful mockups are those that play to the strengths of the sample libraries, but that can and often does include melody. For example:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd also suggest that most people buying sample libraries are not looking to mockup classic pieces, but create new music.



sorry to sound like the admin/moderator but this is a commercial thread for SpitfireAudio. and so can you at least show the courtesy not to introduce stuff from other companies here.......
please do read the rules of conduct here and start your own thread in the designated forum location.


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## Phillip Dixon (Jul 28, 2018)

What other companies?


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## sostenuto (Jul 28, 2018)

Phillip Dixon said:


> What other companies?



Uh huh ! Agree with essence of the post, but not the Post chosen to bark at. If
a specific poster was 'targeted' for other reasons, than not so cool …..


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## thesteelydane (Jul 28, 2018)

Phillip Dixon said:


> What other companies?



Posting a link to an 8dio demo in a Spitfire commercial announcement thread. But maybe like me you have the member in question on ignore, so you didn't see it?


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## sostenuto (Jul 28, 2018)

thesteelydane said:


> Posting a link to an 8dio demo in a Spitfire commercial announcement thread. But maybe like me you have the member in question on ignore, so you didn't see it?



Page 6 of 8 ? Valid point, ..... but I never got the sense this Member was attacking /criticizing SF, or BDT. Are you suggesting he did?


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## thesteelydane (Jul 28, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Page 6 of 8 ? Valid point, ..... but I never got the sense this Member was attacking /criticizing SF, or BDT. Are you suggesting he did?



Not at all, (although he often has in the past), just that he doesn't understand forum etiquette.


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## sostenuto (Jul 28, 2018)

thesteelydane said:


> Not at all, (although he often has in the past), just that he doesn't understand forum etiquette.



OK ….. go it. No problem here, seems most Threads get contentious now regardless of topic …. 
COMMERCIAL & SAMPLE make total sense, but seems like many/most COMMERCIAL Threads need 'automatic' SAMPLE version as so many relevant posts can involve related libs. 
Regards


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## SomeGuy (Jul 28, 2018)

I've made a thread a non-commercial thread here if anyone is wanting to go further in-depth discussing the pros and cons of this library: https://vi-control.net/community/th...ce-your-honest-opinion-critique-thread.73671/


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## Lode_Runner (Jul 28, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> My view is that British Drama Toolkit can be a 21st century version of a Mellotron. It's much more sophisticated than a Mellotron—and it can be used in other ways—but it encourages one to play in a Mellotron style, and it has a similar instant gratification result.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


I was just watching the walk-through and imagining how great it would be playing along with a Stratocaster and an acoustic drum kit. 

Edit: Imagining something like this in the hands of Richard Wright or John Paul Jones back in Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin's hey day. Darn it, now I've gone and sold it to myself.


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## BradHoyt (Jul 28, 2018)

I just wish it wasn't such a pain to adjust the little velocity curve with the mouse.


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## SomeGuy (Jul 28, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> In the Facebook Stream video, Samuel Sim mentions a re-triggering problem with evolving patches that BST attempts to solve. The problem is when you have an evolving patch but hit a new key, it retriggers the pattern from the beginning. Which seems like a version of the machine gun effect to me.
> 
> I'm wondering how BST solves the problem. Is there a round robin, or better yet is there a way to control or randomize the patch's start and end points? I'm curious about what's going on under the hood.



The first few evos get around this issue with the variation slider, which cross fades into another performance later in the evolution so it doesn't start from the beginning again. Unfortunately the Symphonic String Evolutions does not have this feature. Doesn't look like the BDT has it either, which is a real shame.


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## SomeGuy (Jul 28, 2018)

dcoscina said:


> Put this together in a few minutes. Will build on it more but I love how inspiring this new library is.




Is this just the BDT or are there other libraries. Either way WELL DONE!


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## CT (Jul 28, 2018)

dcoscina said:


> Put this together in a few minutes. Will build on it more but I love how inspiring this new library is.




This is neat! Kind of a similar vibe to what Jonny Greenwood did for Inherent Vice.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 28, 2018)

SomeGuy said:


> The first few evos get around this issue with the variation slider, which cross fades into another performance later in the evolution so it doesn't start from the beginning again. Unfortunately the Symphonic String Evolutions does not have this feature. Doesn't look like the BDT has it either, which is a real shame.


Here is the part of the video where Sam describes the problem of the Evo Grid reset when you change notes.

SomeGuy, are you saying that BDT resets as well? It seems weird that Sam would highlight it if BDT also has this problem.


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## heisenberg (Jul 28, 2018)

^^ Worth watching. Sam Sim clearly explains how to get fairly rich and detailed performances out of this library, particularly towards the end. Still pad/plainchant focused but if you play up the keyboard the intricacies can be brought in. Sam played it differently than what I have seen in the posted demos. I would give this a good watch and listen, so you can really exploit this library.

Nicely done Sam. His other library with Spitfire, Chrysalis, is worth looking at as well.


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## SoNowWhat? (Jul 28, 2018)

Quasar said:


> ... I still think of music in terms of melody and rhythm...



*ahem* sorry





Lode_Runner said:


> I was just watching the walk-through and imagining how great it would be playing along with a Stratocaster and an acoustic drum kit.
> 
> Edit: Imagining something like this in the hands of Richard Wright or John Paul Jones back in Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin's hey day. Darn it, now I've gone and sold it to myself.


...you ba*&$ard. You've sold it to me now too.

I think it sounds beautiful and can see myself using it. Horses for courses and all that, some interesting debate in the thread. Thanks again Spitfire.

Apologies as I'm sure it's in the thread somewhere but how long is intro pricing available for?


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## Vik (Jul 29, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


>



Is something wrong with my setup, or is this in mono?


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## SoNowWhat? (Jul 29, 2018)

Vik said:


> Is something wrong with my setup, or is this in mono?


Is alright here.


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## Erick - BVA (Jul 29, 2018)

For me this is all about inspiration from your head getting more seamlessly transitioned to physical world. This is kind of stuff I need. The reason I play with almost all of my effects on is because I am inspired by the sound of what I am playing, and it helps me to further create and let the music naturally evolve. This kind of tool kit will help with that for sure. Too bad I'm not sure in a position to buy it...but the intro price isn't that much less than the final price. So maybe sometime in the future. I wouldn't see it as a tool you use by itself and then call the piece finished. A lot more possibilities. You could use it to write and record an entire piece in one go, and then layer over top of it....then you could take out the original first take (BDT) and see how all of the stuff sounds which was layered over top of it. So it would be like a template.
Here's the thing though....if you own a lot of libraries, you could probably build a custom multi with a similar approach. But this was dedicted to the approach. I just wish we could demo stuff like this.


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## dcoscina (Jul 29, 2018)

SomeGuy said:


> Is this just the BDT or are there other libraries. Either way WELL DONE!


Just the first patch from BDT and solo legato bassoon from Spitfire Woodwinds. Thanks for listening


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## Quasar (Jul 29, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Apologies as I'm sure it's in the thread somewhere but how long is intro pricing available for?



Thursday, August 9th at 23:59 BST.


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## SoNowWhat? (Jul 29, 2018)

Quasar said:


> Thursday, August 9th at 23:59 BST.


Thanks mate, much appreciated.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 29, 2018)

Vik said:


> Is something wrong with my setup, or is this in mono?



The audio in the vid is not high quality, appears to be mono here too.


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## D Halgren (Jul 29, 2018)

Craig Sharmat said:


> The audio in the vid is not high quality, appears to be mono here too.


It was a Facebook live stream. Lo-fi...


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## Lee Blaske (Jul 29, 2018)

Enjoying listening to all the BDT demos. Some very challenging pieces. I was wondering, though, what the British Drama Toolkit would sound like performing a simple, well-known tune like "Happy Birthday to You" so I tested it out (with a bit of Tundra and Harp Swarm thrown in)...


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## MaxOctane (Jul 29, 2018)




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## Wally Garten (Jul 29, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> I was wondering, though, what the British Drama Toolkit would sound like performing a simple, well-known tune like "Happy Birthday to You" so I tested it out (with a bit of Tundra and Harp Swarm thrown in)...



For a minute I was gonna be all like "Shh! D'you wanna get sued?" But then I remembered it's public domain now!


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## sostenuto (Jul 29, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> Enjoying listening to all the BDT demos. Some very challenging pieces. I was wondering, though, what the British Drama Toolkit would sound like performing a simple, well-known tune like "Happy Birthday to You"



 Maybe only version in decades I really enjoy! 
…. first 25% sounds like homage to P Thompson and 'organ'ic style … 

THX!


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## SoNowWhat? (Jul 29, 2018)

Great! Now I know what happy birthday would sound like if it was written in Unicorn tears.


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## Geoff Grace (Jul 29, 2018)

Worth a watch:



Best,

Geoff


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## Musicam (Jul 29, 2018)

Wow! I am waiting this video long time time ago! Wonderful! This is the difference of a great company! More videos like this please!


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## Satorious (Jul 29, 2018)

I'm only a hobbyist but I'm finding this a really inspiring library to just have fun noodling around with (as was the case below). It might not be for everyone, but really like it.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Jul 29, 2018)

Satorious said:


> I'm only a hobbyist but I'm finding this a really inspiring library to just have fun noodling around with (as was the case below). It might not be for everyone, but really like it.



Out of interest which piano did you use in this demo?


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 29, 2018)

I intuited this one should be a pass, and I'm glad from what's posted here I did. No offense to Spitfire, but this might have made a great donation-ware imo (understand, I happen to love very much a few of SF's libraries).


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## Satorious (Jul 30, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Out of interest which piano did you use in this demo?


Antisample's Cinematic Grand. Love the tone of this (got it when it was on offer), also like the fact it has a smaller memory footprint.


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## musicisum (Jul 30, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> Worth a watch:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for sharing. I still don't know if it's worth the money, considering that I miss some texture libraries in my template. The Evo series sounds quite sweet as well.


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## SoNowWhat? (Jul 30, 2018)

Satorious said:


> Antisample's Cinematic Grand. Love the tone of this (got it when it was on offer), also like the fact it has a smaller memory footprint.


It does sound lovely. It sits very well in that mix.


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## Musicam (Jul 30, 2018)

Well.  in this point, when the choir?


----------



## Spitfire Team (Jul 30, 2018)

​


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## Grégory Betton (Jul 30, 2018)

Musicam said:


> Well.  in this point, when the choir?


Give us the choir!


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## Michel Simons (Jul 30, 2018)

Grégory Betton said:


> Give us the choir!



This choir library is quickly becoming the new Tool album among sample libraries...


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## sostenuto (Jul 30, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> I intuited this one should be a pass, and I'm glad from what's posted here I did. No offense to Spitfire, but this might have made a great donation-ware imo (understand, I happen to love very much a few of SF's libraries).



Is this mostly because you have content which covers this capability ? OR because of specific deficiencies you are noting from posts and videos ? 
I ask as respectful, but 'limited', SF User __ (3) Albions, Orchestral Swarm, eDNA 01, Glass & Steel, LABS ….


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## lucky909091 (Jul 30, 2018)

Satorious said:


> I'm only a hobbyist but I'm finding this a really inspiring library to just have fun noodling around with (as was the case below). It might not be for everyone, but really like it.




You are just a "hobbyist" ?
Well done, sir.


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 30, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Is this mostly because you have content which covers this capability ? OR because of specific deficiencies you are noting from posts and videos ?
> I ask as respectful, but 'limited', SF User __ (3) Albions, Orchestral Swarm, eDNA 01, Glass & Steel, LABS ….



I can't hear anything that inspires me about it. On the other hand, BHOT, EVOs 2 and 4, Albion Legacy, Iceni, Uist..._*all*_ inspired me to write music simply upon hearing the demos. I get nothing from this new offering.

But hey, more power to anyone that_ does_ get inspired for their music from this library, that means more people making great music! \m/


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## sostenuto (Jul 30, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> I can't hear anything that inspires me about it. On the other hand, BHOT, EVOs 2 and 4, Albion Legacy, Iceni, Uist..._*all*_ inspired me to write music simply upon hearing the demos. I get nothing from this new offering.
> 
> But hey, more power to anyone that_ does_ get inspired for their music from this library, that means more people making great music! \m/



Thank-you for this perspective. Key interest for me is emphasis on '2-hand playing-in' which mitigates MIDI shortcomings. 
BH_CT is high on add list.


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## Satorious (Jul 30, 2018)

I don't own any of the Spitfire EVOs. For me BDT is great for just playing, experimenting or producing quick mock-ups/ideas with (which can then be refined further where required). I'll also use it to add some emotional background colour/movement in my tracks (where appropriate).


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## sostenuto (Jul 30, 2018)

Satorious said:


> I don't own any of the Spitfire EVOs. For me BDT is great for just playing, experimenting or producing quick mock-ups/ideas with (which can then be refined further where required). I'll also use it to add some emotional background colour/movement in my tracks (where appropriate).



Good to read!
Have followed your Solo Strings posts which have been quite instructive. 
BDT seems comfortable going forward, as _expectations vs reality_ are now aligned nicely.
THX !


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 30, 2018)

Satorious said:


> I don't own any of the Spitfire EVOs.



I can vouch that EVOs 2 and 4 can be really interesting, and can help you out of a tricky transition and/or key change.


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## SoNowWhat? (Jul 31, 2018)

Hello @Spitfire Team can I ask about the demos posted on the product page? They sound great but I wonder if they were all made using only BDT? I'm not talking about any post processing or inserts here (I've no doubt there's a bit of secret sauce going on in the mix) just the instruments used. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Jul 31, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Hello @Spitfire Team can I ask about the demos posted on the product page? They sound great but I wonder if they were all made using only BDT? I'm not talking about any post processing or inserts here (I've no doubt there's a bit of secret sauce going on in the mix) just the instruments used. Thanks in advance.



I don't know about the others, but Christian Henson did a whole video explaining how his piece was done, and he used Tundra in addition to BDT.


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## SoNowWhat? (Jul 31, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> I don't know about the others, but Christian Henson did a whole video explaining how his piece was done, and he used Tundra in addition to BDT.


Thank you. I should have seen that, off to take a look now.


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## smallberries (Jul 31, 2018)

I'm most interested in the woodwind combinations (bass clarinets!). I've got the Sonokinetics woodwinds, but that's a different sound (and no bass clarinets). Am I letting expectations get away from me here or does this seem worth the price just for those sections if one had a shortage of woodwind support?


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## Musicam (Aug 1, 2018)

Grégory Betton said:


> Give us the choir!


I hope that the choir will come this month, not on december that its the month of the Albions!


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## Quasar (Aug 1, 2018)

smallberries said:


> I'm most interested in the woodwind combinations (bass clarinets!). I've got the Sonokinetics woodwinds, but that's a different sound (and no bass clarinets). Am I letting expectations get away from me here or does this seem worth the price just for those sections if one had a shortage of woodwind support?


Depends on what you mean by support. It's certainly not going to give you a full-featured bass clarinet like you find in, say, the Chris Hein Winds package. But if you just want to layer in a some notes/textures that convey a bass clarinet sound... 

TBH, I'm not sure it's worth the price to be used other than intended. I bought BDT and really like it, but I can't say that there is one particular patch or articulation that makes me think: "It's worth it for this one alone."


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 1, 2018)

I agree with Quasar, I like BDT but if you are looking for a Bass Clarinet there are better options.


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## Parsifal666 (Aug 1, 2018)

I have to second the vote up for the Hein bass clarinet...in fact, I wholeheartedly recommend getting his entire Winds collection. I use them in practically every project. EWHW also has a pretty darn good bass clarinet imo.

Someday I'll splurge and get Berlin Woodwinds. Ahh, the credit debt...


----------



## Old Timer (Aug 3, 2018)

Love the sound of this from the demos I've listened to. I feel that, given enough time, I could get something similar with the libraries I already own but I guess the beauty of BDT is that it is fast and easy to get a particular sound. Seems really good for slow, emotional, sparse, atmospheric, melancholy etc etc and of course you could layer it with other libraries. Having just spent all my available cash on a new (second hand) ukulele I won't be buying it any time soon but I think BDT sounds really nice and I like the way SA are experimenting with new sampling ideas. Good for you chaps. A thumbs up from me.


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## smallberries (Aug 3, 2018)

I've come to understand that I shouldn't get BDT just for the woodwinds (I can get the CH compact with more flexibility for similar money, and upgrade to full with only a small penalty). So now I'm realizing I really always wanted to score Happy Birthday as was done earlier in this thread (and separately get the CH winds for utility, but it is rude of me to suggest this in Spitfire's channel). I will pull the trigger on BDT in the morning and begin making sad covers of happy songs. (really. not being an ass here).


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## Parsifal666 (Aug 3, 2018)

smallberries said:


> I've come to understand that I shouldn't get BDT just for the woodwinds (I can get the CH compact with more flexibility for similar money, and upgrade to full with only a small penalty). So now I'm realizing I really always wanted to score Happy Birthday as was done earlier in this thread (and separately get the CH winds for utility, but it is rude of me to suggest this in Spitfire's channel). I will pull the trigger on BDT in the morning and begin making sad covers of happy songs. (really. not being an ass here).



You can't go wrong with CH Woodwinds (or strings...the brass is pretty darn good, too).


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 3, 2018)

I like a lot of the CH stuff but I think you would be wise to look at other options for winds and not just focus on CH.


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## rocking.xmas.man (Aug 3, 2018)

wait... there are christian henson woodwinds?


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## Jack Weaver (Aug 3, 2018)

Craig,

How does the ambient room sound of BDT mix with other Spitfire libs recorded in the big hall?

Thanks

.


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## Geoff Grace (Aug 3, 2018)

Best,

Geoff


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 3, 2018)

Jack Weaver said:


> Craig,
> 
> How does the ambient room sound of BDT mix with other Spitfire libs recorded in the big hall?
> 
> ...



Not sure if this is the answer you are looking for but BDT is pretty dry so you have to match your verbs, at least that is what I do.


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## pfmusic (Aug 3, 2018)

I bought BDT yesterday. Really impressed with sound of this new library.

Well done to Sam and Spitfire Audio. Inspirational sounds. 

Cheers,
Patrick.


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## procreative (Aug 7, 2018)

Can anyone clarify how the instruments are laid out in the ensemble patches? If you play triads are you getting a mix for instance of the various string instruments or are they accessed by playing in their appropriate ranges?


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## pfmusic (Aug 7, 2018)

procreative said:


> Can anyone clarify how the instruments are laid out in the ensemble patches? If you play triads are you getting a mix for instance of the various string instruments or are they accessed by playing in their appropriate ranges?



*Ensembles*

Ensembles - Bass Clari & Clari Long Chatter Loud
Ensembles - Bass Clari & Clari Long Chatter Texture
Ensembles - Bass Clari & Clari Long Chatter
Ensembles - Bass Clarinet & Clarinet Long Soft
Ensembles - Bass Clarinet & Clarinet Long
Ensembles - Flute & Piccolo Long Alt
Ensembles - Flute & Piccolo Long Chiffs
Ensembles - Flute & Piccolo Long Soft Alt
Ensembles - Flute & Piccolo Long Soft
Ensembles - Flute & Piccolo Long
Ensembles - String Ensemble Long Soft
Ensembles - String Ensemble Long
Ensembles - Woodwind Ensemble Long Soft
Ensembles - Woodwind Ensemble Long
When playing chords you are getting a mix of all the strings [as above] and you have the 3 layers, texture, soft and loud for each. Good thing too, is you can access all articulations/velocity layers separately for each instrument.

Hope this helps.


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## Spitfire Team (Aug 8, 2018)

​​


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## Jaap (Aug 8, 2018)

A question for the ones that have it. I don't have any other Spitfire products, but if I want to use this and go in a cue from this (lovely) intimate sound and let develop into a more orchestral setting (with CSS, HB, VSL woodwinds etc), would this give a normal result as I understood and also what I hear from the walkthrough that it is a fairly dry and hence good to mix library?


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## madfloyd (Aug 16, 2018)

Dosh garn it, how did I miss the pre-sale deadline... oh well, snooze you lose I guess.


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## Vastman (Aug 16, 2018)

madfloyd said:


> Dosh garn it, how did I miss the pre-sale deadline... oh well, snooze you lose I guess.


yep...me too! been away for awhile and *SEEMS I"M NO LONGER GETTING NOTIFICATIONS from Spitfire, even though I own nearly everything and have been a customer for over a decade... ARRRRGGGG!* At least showed up and tooodled around VIC and am fortunate to see the Orchestra upgrades... Guess it's BF for this one... will go great with Olafur's stuff, Tundra, Swarm and the Evos... but I can be patient on this one. Sounds fantastic and love the new GUI!


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## SoNowWhat? (Aug 19, 2018)

Jaap said:


> A question for the ones that have it. I don't have any other Spitfire products, but if I want to use this and go in a cue from this (lovely) intimate sound and let develop into a more orchestral setting (with CSS, HB, VSL woodwinds etc), would this give a normal result as I understood and also what I hear from the walkthrough that it is a fairly dry and hence good to mix library?


I wouldn’t describe it as dry but, it’s not recorded in Air Lyndhurst, and can sound very intimate. For that reason I think you could combine with CSS (I’ll check this later if I have a moment), I don’t have HB or VSL so, less sure about them. YMMV.


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## Jaap (Aug 21, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> I wouldn’t describe it as dry but, it’s not recorded in Air Lyndhurst, and can sound very intimate. For that reason I think you could combine with CSS (I’ll check this later if I have a moment), I don’t have HB or VSL so, less sure about them. YMMV.



Great, thanks for this! Have not picked it up, but will likely as this sounds this could be a good addition to a project I am working on.


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## SoNowWhat? (Aug 28, 2018)

Jaap said:


> Great, thanks for this! Have not picked it up, but will likely as this sounds this could be a good addition to a project I am working on.


Hi Jaap, apologies for the late reply. Haven't had a chance to try these two out together til now. I like what I'm hearing. I think it requires a judicious use of reverb and dynamics/expression but yes they are capable of mixing very well. I've had the reverb in CSS set around 50%. Of course you could use an external verb on both which would probably work too. Con sord in CSS can make it easier to blend if you want it to sit in the background, but it can be used to soar above BDT as well. Depending on your particular application you might want/need some virtual sound stage management to make it sit just right. The trick is to get CSS/CSSS to sound intimate (which was easier than I expected). I tried it with CSSS too and in both CSS and solo, the cellos work really well with BDT (IMHO). I haven't tested exhaustively (every patch in BDT) but it was quite fun to play along with them together.

edit - with some verb SFs LCO works well with BDT too. Specially the violins sul tasto. And we know that Tundra and OAs Chamber Evos work well with it. Happy days.


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## Jaap (Aug 30, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Hi Jaap, apologies for the late reply. Haven't had a chance to try these two out together til now. I like what I'm hearing. I think it requires a judicious use of reverb and dynamics/expression but yes they are capable of mixing very well. I've had the reverb in CSS set around 50%. Of course you could use an external verb on both which would probably work too. Con sord in CSS can make it easier to blend if you want it to sit in the background, but it can be used to soar above BDT as well. Depending on your particular application you might want/need some virtual sound stage management to make it sit just right. The trick is to get CSS/CSSS to sound intimate (which was easier than I expected). I tried it with CSSS too and in both CSS and solo, the cellos work really well with BDT (IMHO). I haven't tested exhaustively (every patch in BDT) but it was quite fun to play along with them together.
> 
> edit - with some verb SFs LCO works well with BDT too. Specially the violins sul tasto. And we know that Tundra and OAs Chamber Evos work well with it. Happy days.



Thank you very much SoNowWhat! Gonna dive next week again in the walkthroughs and demos for this and your feedback is very helpful. A big cheers!


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## SoNowWhat? (Aug 30, 2018)

Jaap said:


> Thank you very much Sostenuto!


You’re welcome...I think?


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## Jaap (Aug 30, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> You’re welcome...I think?



Oh dear...my aging goes faster then I thought ! Sorry!


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## SoNowWhat? (Aug 30, 2018)

Jaap said:


> Oh dear...my aging goes faster then I thought ! Sorry!


Haha! It's all good.


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## Yannis Mouhoun (Oct 24, 2018)

Do you guys think Spitfire will release a brass extension ? I feel it’s the only missing part of the BDT


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## jbuhler (Oct 24, 2018)

Yannis Mouhoun said:


> Do you guys think Spitfire will release a brass extension ? I feel it’s the only missing part of the BDT


Personally, I miss not having oboe and bassoon. Soft horn would also be nice.


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