# DAW selection



## rosko.vair (Aug 13, 2021)

Hello, VI Control community!

I am on an iMac, and I currently use GarageBand for all of my composing and recording. Then I export everything and import it into ProTools for mixing and mastering.

I don't use ProTools for the recording and composing stuff because I haven't found it to be very useful/intuitive with VSTs the way that GarageBand is, and 90-95% of the material I'm working with is VSTs. It's generally rare that I'm recording actual live audio. But I have been feeling the need to switch to another DAW besides GarageBand for a couple reasons:

1. I know GarageBand is supposed to be just an entry-point software.
2. GarageBand makes "secret" edits to your music (seems to be just compression and volume) when you export it--I haven't figured out a way to prevent it from doing that.
3. I think that other DAWs have some special features that GarageBand doesn't have.

But when I look at the overviews and walkthroughs for different DAWs, I don't really get a strong sense that one of them is calling out to me. I'm mostly debating between Logic Pro X and Ableton Live. Logic Pro X is very similar to GarageBand in its interface, so that could be intuitive for me, but it's not clear to me that Logic Pro has very much to offer that Garage Band doesn't already, other than its own VST collection and a more involved interface (but since I do post production in ProTools, this just feels like clutter to me).

Ableton Live seems to have superior editing features. However, Ableton seems like it's primarily for looping, EDM-style music (similar to Fruity Loops) and that is only like 5-10% of the music I usually produce (I mostly create music for video games and visual media, though I've also done some songwriting). I've looked a little bit at Cubase, too--it looks similar to ProTools.

Would anyone like to share their experiences with their particular DAWs to help me get a more knowledgeable take on why a certain DAW has been a good fit for you? Thanks for reading my post!

-Rosko


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## anp27 (Aug 13, 2021)

Ableton Live has superior editing features? In what way?


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## rrichard63 (Aug 13, 2021)

If you're interested in a thorough, systematic comparison, this might be useful:






The DAW Feature Chart


Things that you want which you can't find anywhere else




www.admiralbumblebee.com


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## bill5 (Aug 13, 2021)

rosko.vair said:


> Hello, VI Control community!
> 
> I am on an iMac, and I currently use GarageBand for all of my composing and recording. Then I export everything and import it into ProTools for mixing and mastering.


In the name of mercy why...Pro Tools IMO blows




> I have been feeling the need to switch to another DAW besides GarageBand for a couple reasons:
> 
> 1. I know GarageBand is supposed to be just an entry-point software.
> 2. GarageBand makes "secret" edits to your music (seems to be just compression and volume) when you export it--I haven't figured out a way to prevent it from doing that.
> 3. I think that other DAWs have some special features that GarageBand doesn't have.


I can't speak to the "secret edits," but the other two sound like you want to switch because you are paranoid you're missing out on something. If GarageBand works well for you, STICK WITH IT. Don't get sucked into this grass is greener on the other side BS. Don't try to fix something that isn't broke.

I have tried just about every DAW under the sun. For me, most of them sucked. I finally found Mixcraft (which I hear is similar to GarageBand) and love it. The only DAW I found which was intuitive and easy to use. FWIW.


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## jbuhler (Aug 13, 2021)

rosko.vair said:


> Hello, VI Control community!
> 
> I am on an iMac, and I currently use GarageBand for all of my composing and recording. Then I export everything and import it into ProTools for mixing and mastering.
> 
> ...


I haven't used GarageBand in years, and it sounds like it might be normalizing the export. I say this because Logic has normalize on by default, and so it stands to reason GarageBand would too. In any case, that would be the first thing I looked for.

As @bill5 notes, there's no reason to change if what you have is working for you. The reason to change is because there is functionality you want but is not included in your current software. It seems like the only thing you dislike about GarageBand is the export. Hopefully someone here knows whether and how you can change that. If you can't get around that issue in GarageBand, then you could upgrade to Logic. The simplified GUI that Logic has when you first get it acts very much like GarageBand, and you never have to move beyond that if you don't want to.


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## rosko.vair (Aug 13, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> If you're interested in a thorough, systematic comparison, this might be useful:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh my goodness. Thank you--all the "comparisons" that came up in my googling were just blurbs about each product. This is exactly what I'd been searching for.


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## rosko.vair (Aug 13, 2021)

bill5 said:


> In the name of mercy why...Pro Tools IMO blows
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks @bill5 and @jbuhler . Part of me was thinking this exact thought as I was typing my post (it works for me--so who cares!).

I do feel like I may be missing something, but just don't know what. But now I have a solution for that. I read in the DAW feature chart article that @rrichard63 shared that apparently there are free versions of all the different DAWs, so I think I will start downloading the free versions of the ones that interest me and trying them out to see how they work. I was worried I'd have to make an investment, which is why I posted.

Also, boy do I feel silly. I knew the term "normalize" but never used it when I was searching online for an answer, so the proper results I was looking for never turned up. A search for "how to stop normalizing in GarageBand" turned up this explanation video and sure enough it's a simply button click to solve the problem: 

Well that solves my only "problem" with GarageBand. Now I need to start messing around with different DAWs. Thanks for the feedback!

Oh, also, the reason I use ProTools is because we had to purchase it for the class I took this past year, so I learned on it. So far, I generally like how it works, though I haven't gotten MIDI/VSTs to work on it yet.


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## jonathanwright (Aug 14, 2021)

Logic is probably your best bet. It really does offer you everything you need, both features and content wise. 

Apple offer a 90 trial https://www.apple.com/uk/logic-pro/trial/ so you can give it a whirl.

On first startup Logic will look very much like GarageBand, so make sure you go into preferences and enable all the advanced features to get the full Logic experience.


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## Minko (Aug 14, 2021)

I made a spreadsheet with all my wishes and demoed all the software I was interested in.

I had been using Cubase on Atari and pc, then ProTools for a very long time, and I missed midi stuff that was already in other daws. 

So I made the spread sheet and eventually, I came out on Studio One. Be sure to also test that.


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## DoubleTap (Aug 14, 2021)

Agree that if you get results from Garageband, then you should keep using it. 

I mostly use Ableton Live, and for EDM type stuff, but I would say the looping part of it is a slight red herring, because you can ignore the loop screen entirely. The arrangement view is very similar to most other DAWs and now does comping, so you can record a performance by going over the same section several times. You can then very easy stitch together the best parts of each performance. I'm pretty sure Logic does this too.

The big advantage that Live has, for me, is the way it enables you to process sound very easily, mostly using its Racks functionality. It also has a very good collection of built in instruments and effects. And it comes with Max4Live, which allows you to create your own effects - a souped up version of Reaktor basically - or, more importantly, to allow other people to make effects and instruments, some of which are superb. But that requires Live Suite edition, which is much more expensive than Logic. You can get the Live Lite version free from Splice though, and if you wait for a 25% sale, the upgrade path would be closer to $400. 

Logic is very good and very usable too, and much cheaper. I don't know if it has racks-like functionality though - basically something that allows you to split and layer the signal path within a track, rather than having to use multiple tracks. I would miss that a lot. But if you don't do much sound design it might not matter.


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## A.G (Aug 14, 2021)

rosko.vair said:


> Hello, VI Control community!
> 
> I am on an iMac, and I currently use GarageBand for all of my composing and recording. Then I export everything and import it into ProTools for mixing and mastering.
> 
> I don't use ProTools for the recording and composing stuff because I haven't found it to be very useful/intuitive with VSTs the way that GarageBand is, and 90-95% of the material I'm working with is VSTs. It's generally rare that I'm recording actual live audio. But I have been feeling the need to switch to another DA


It seems that Logic will be best for your needs. 
1. Logic is the best DAW for MIDI composing, editing and MIDI FX processing.

2. Logic stock Instruments are the best so they will fit your needs a lot.

3. Logic is cheep and you will transfer to it quickly if you used Garage Band.


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## d.healey (Aug 14, 2021)

Download trial versions and see what you prefer. If you're only working with VIs then you will be limited by ProTools since it doesn't support vst plugins.


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## Martin S (Aug 14, 2021)

jonathanwright said:


> Logic is probably your best bet. It really does offer you everything you need, both features and content wise.
> 
> Apple offer a 90 trial https://www.apple.com/uk/logic-pro/trial/ so you can give it a whirl.
> 
> On first startup Logic will look very much like GarageBand, so make sure you go into preferences and enable all the advanced features to get the full Logic experience.


Furthermore, you can open your existing GarageBand files/projects directly in Logic


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## Ivan M. (Aug 14, 2021)

d.healey said:


> Download trial versions and see what you prefer.


Also, you have to create a whole, finished track in a daw to get a sense of how it fits you. 
Just messing around will a give false impression. You have to do a whole track a do a lot of repetitive tasks, zooming, navigating, editing, to really know what it's like


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## Lukas (Aug 14, 2021)

Ivan M. said:


> Also, you have to create a whole, finished track in a daw to get a sense of how it fits you.
> Just messing around will a give false impression. You have to do a whole track a do a lot of repetitive tasks, zooming, navigating, editing, to really know what it's like


Agreed!


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## Cybercub (Aug 14, 2021)

If you are staying on the Mac, I agree with the others that Logic is the better option. I also went that route from Garage Band to Logic. There as little learning curve moving to Logic as Garageband is truly Logic Lite in my eyes.

With that said, I want to move OFF of Mac and am looking for what DAW options that work for me on Windows. The reason I am moving is for greater support of multiple monitors (4) without the retarded expense of a Mac Pro. Logic is not worth that cost. Not to mention Mac is very inconsistent with monitor support past two with resolutions all over the place.


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## MexicanBreed (Aug 14, 2021)

I've always read Logic Pro is great and comes with a bunch of things, not the least a free remote app. Since I'm on Windows, it's never been an option, but always thought it seemed a great option. 

I settled on Reaper myself mainly because of the price, and because I could just download it and try it as I followed the video tutorials by Kenny Gioia. Another reason was simply that a producer friend uses it so he'd be able to help with ot. Now it's come to a point that he asks me about Reaper tips I've found. 

Having enough material online and a supportive community to turn to and solve doubts was a big reason for my choice. 

Studio One looks very appealing to me, with its composing tools, which are entirely missing in Reaper. It has a remote app as well. I think if I had the chance, I might start with S1. Anything that could help me with the learning curve of not just using a DAW, but also composing and arranging.


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 14, 2021)

MexicanBreed said:


> I've always read Logic Pro is great and comes with a bunch of things, not the least a free remote app. Since I'm on Windows, it's never been an option, but always thought it seemed a great option.
> 
> I settled on Reaper myself mainly because of the price, and because I could just download it and try it as I followed the video tutorials by Kenny Gioia. Another reason was simply that a producer friend uses it so he'd be able to help with ot. Now it's come to a point that he asks me about Reaper tips I've found.
> 
> ...


Reaper is a pretty horrendous experience "out of the box" for a new user compared to most other DAWs. If you've learned how to use Reaper, you can definitely learn to use any DAW.


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## MexicanBreed (Aug 14, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Reaper is a pretty horrendous experience "out of the box" for a new user compared to most other DAWs. If you've learned how to use Reaper, you can definitely learn to use any DAW.


LOL, I'd say that at that point, learning any DAW would have had a learning curve for me. The good thing is that the videos are plentiful and well explained.


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## Erik (Aug 14, 2021)

Best DAWs 2023: the best digital audio workstations for PC and Mac


We round-up the best music production software packages




www.musicradar.com


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 14, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Logic has normalize on by default


It does?

I believe you, I just don't remember turning it off - and it defaults to off here.

In any case, it's just a setting in the Bounce dialog, so I'll certainly pay attention to that!


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## robgb (Aug 14, 2021)

Since you're used to the way GarageBand works, you'll probably want to step up to Logic Pro. That way you'll feel most comfortable, I believe.


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## mybadmemory (Aug 14, 2021)

I’d vote logic! It’s value is crazy good. You get so much for the price and free updates for years. It’s much more capable than GarageBand but very easy to transition to.


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## JohnG (Aug 14, 2021)

They are all pretty good. The comparison of "DAWs in 2021" seems aimed mostly at song-based composers (I use 'song' as a catch-all to distinguish it from orchestral or score-type composing). The first comparison listed, by admiral bumblebee is good, but sadly already out of date as such things are.

*Pro Tools*

The reason to buy Pro Tools is if you are working in TV or movies or games with big companies _and_ you're doing lots of live recording. Otherwise, I think it's pretty expensive. If you have a regular TV show on CBS, fine, but if you're composing for yourself it's not most people's choice. I love it for recording and mixing, and so do engineers.

*...and One More...*

Digital Performer has a new version 11 out that is fantastic. The best ever, by far. So you could also demo that. Works best on a Mac, from what I can discern. Digital Performer is wonderful if you like to use notation, you are writing for orchestra, or you like to use a lot of odd meters or other unusual time signatures. But it's fine for the other stuff too.

Good luck! Have fun!

John


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 14, 2021)

JohnG said:


> The reason to buy Pro Tools is if you are working in TV or movies or games with big companies _and_ you're doing lots of live recording. Otherwise, I think it's pretty expensive.



It's also a great audio editor, and the flow of working in it becomes almost a dance when you get into it.

I don't use it a lot, but when I do it's for that - mainly editing VO.

And yes, it is sort of expensive. I still have an old version.


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## jbuhler (Aug 14, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> It does?
> 
> I believe you, I just don't remember turning it off - and it defaults to off here.
> 
> In any case, it's just a setting in the Bounce dialog, so I'll certainly pay attention to that!


I turned it off many years ago, and once you set it in the bounce window, it remembers your last setting, so you never have to think about it again. Looking more closely at it now, I think what Logic ships with is the overload protection.


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## jonnybutter (Aug 14, 2021)

Logic for $199 is an unbeatable deal, considering all the stuff it comes with. I think I paid around $199 just for Alchemy - a synth Apple bought and has incorporated into Logic and includes free. One of many. Downside is being stuck on Mac - not a trivial problem.


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## jonathanwright (Aug 15, 2021)

jonnybutter said:


> Logic for $199 is an unbeatable deal, considering all the stuff it comes with. I think I paid around $199 just for Alchemy - a synth Apple bought and has incorporated into Logic and includes free. One of many. Downside is being stuck on Mac - not a trivial problem.


Plus all updates since it was first released have been free. 8 years’ worth!


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## Al Maurice (Aug 15, 2021)

+1 for DP it comes most of your composing needs, and I find it very straight forward to use, as its interface is so consistent. And is centred around the needs of a musician. 

Learning any DAW has a significant learning curve: if you've been using Garage Band for a while, and know its workflow well, then Logic would be the next place to head. The other DAWs can all achieve pretty much the same, maybe give or take film features, fluid handling of tempo mapping with locked markers. 

You can always cross-grade later on, as once you learn one it's easy to reapply your skills elsewhere.

The best place to start is with a demo, 30 days might not seem like much, but I find it's more than enough to try out all the main features with a range of different projects.


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## Trensharo (Aug 15, 2021)

Doesn't GB have like a 40 track limit or something? Don't think I would ever use it if I had Pro Tools, anyways. Thats a lot to give up for a pretty interface, and Pro Tools isn't REAPER in that regard...

Move to Logic ir use Pro Tools, IMO. DP is not worth an extra $200 over Logic in OP's situation.


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## Toecutter (Aug 15, 2021)

rosko.vair said:


> I am on an iMac, and I currently use GarageBand for all of my composing and recording.


I'd go with Logic, you will feel at home with it, no need to waste time transitioning to a completely alien DAW, unless you are working with people that require a certain software but I don't think that's the case? I use Cubase and would only recommend it if you were looking for a fresh start on Windows.


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## kitekrazy (Aug 15, 2021)

If I had a Mac I would go with Logic. It seems affordable and I see it used more among Mac users for all genres.


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## Trensharo (Aug 31, 2021)

He already has Pro Tools. I'd probably start by doing full tracks in that and checking how I'd acclimate to it.


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## GeOM (Sep 5, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> He already has Pro Tools. I'd probably start by doing full tracks in that and checking how I'd acclimate to it.


Pro Tools is subscription based so he will eventually run out of it. Pro Tools doesn't support VST, although there are some workarounds. I find it has all kinds of limitations. If you don't score for very big projects like film and tv and you don't reach thousands of tracks in a project, I wouldn't touch Pro Tools, and even in that area you have Cubase or Logic alternatives.


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## el-bo (Sep 5, 2021)

jonathanwright said:


> On first startup Logic will look very much like GarageBand, so make sure you go into preferences and enable all the advanced features to get the full Logic experience.


Just a shame they don't allow us advanced users to keep the wooden cheeks


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## darkogav (Sep 6, 2021)

I am really not into DAW wars. They all sort of do the same thing but in different ways. It's good to pick one and learn to use it well. Any DAW you pick will entail a learning curve. I think you may want to consider what sort of MIDI editing features and functionality you need and whether you need access to musical notation features. Also, whether you will be delving deep into sound design and how much? There are some people who will use FL Studio as a DAW as it has ability to route LFOs and a very deeply integrated sequencer.


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## Trensharo (Sep 7, 2021)

GeOM said:


> Pro Tools is subscription based so he will eventually run out of it. Pro Tools doesn't support VST, although there are some workarounds. I find it has all kinds of limitations. If you don't score for very big projects like film and tv and you don't reach thousands of tracks in a project, I wouldn't touch Pro Tools, and even in that area you have Cubase or Logic alternatives.


No. 

Pro Tools has Perpetual Licenses. 

People here still don't know that?

They've never not had perpetual licenses.


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## kitekrazy (Sep 7, 2021)

darkogav said:


> I am really not into DAW wars. They all sort of do the same thing but in different ways. *It's good to pick one and learn to use it well*. Any DAW you pick will entail a learning curve. I think you may want to consider what sort of MIDI editing features and functionality you need and whether you need access to musical notation features. Also, whether you will be delving deep into sound design and how much? There are some people who will use FL Studio as a DAW as it has ability to route LFOs and a very deeply integrated sequencer.


 That would be a miracle for me. I've collected DAWs like plugins. I'm a fan of FL Studio and yet even dented what it can do and people have used it well venturing into genres more suited for the likes of Cubase.


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