# Outboard rack gear advice needed



## Bunford (Apr 28, 2016)

I have just build a DIY rack unit and am looking for some tips on what to put in it. I mainly makeelectronic/synthesiser-based music, some orchstral stuff and som progressive/tech house and minimal techno type of stuff, though not limited to that. To make it a bit easier, I have put numbers below representing the unit (U) spaces in the rack and what I currently have. I am looking for some tips and advice on what to put in the empty spaces:

1. Phonic PPC8000E Power Conditioner and Rack Lighting
2. MOTU 828 Mk2 Audio Interface
3. Steinberg Midex 8x8 MIDI interface
4. Behringer PX3000 48 Point Balanced Patchbay
5. Behringer PX3000 48 Point Balanced Patchbay
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.

I was thinking of trying to pick up a compressor/EQ/channel strip, a limiter, an exciter and a multi effects unit. I also have a few hardware synths too (and planning on picking up a couple more), so was considering picking up something like the Line 6 Pod/Behringer V-Amp for guitar and/or bass rack units to run synths through and get some creative sounds going.

This is just for a home studio setup rather than a pro-grade studio setup, so the cheaper the better, happy to buy used and just looking to achieve that more analogue/warm sounding final tracks.

Feel free to drop some recommendations for the empty spaces in my rack


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## chimuelo (Apr 28, 2016)

Dump the Phonic immediately and get a Furman PL Pro. 
Get the Lamp extension for the back of the rack too.
You can control it from the front.
No need for hardware EQ or Comp really unless you are planning on using hardware.
But quality Conditioner is vital especially is you PC is going to use the same power.
Phonic is more less for a guy playing a drum machine and singing 5 part harmony on a Vocalist while strumming an Acoustic.


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## jamwerks (Apr 28, 2016)

The New Manley "Nu Mu" was apparently made with modern electronic music (among others) in mind!


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## chillbot (Apr 28, 2016)

The Line 6 Pod is great... I have it hooked up so my guitar goes direct into the Line 6 then into the mixer. But I find that I bypass it (dry) probably 80% of the time and just use Guitar Rig or similar. You'd want to run it out of your computer so you're not printing the effected signal. (I'm not a good guitar player so I don't really care... I like the "synthy" sounds on the Pod they make me sound good.) But it's hard to justify that it really does anything better than Guitar Rig or similar, especially for the cost, and especially because the computer plugins are so convenient.

I love outboard synths I have about 16 of them. Look on ebay you can find great deals. One of my favorite cheaper toys is the Moog Slim Phatty (350 or so on ebay). Check it out, great sound. Any Access Virus or Dave Smith anything is always fun as well if you can find one cheap (they're usually more expensive). If you're looking for a 2-space filler find a cheap Roland XV-5080 for around 350.... crazy amounts of sounds... some of them still relevant (I still use mine). Or a real fun one is the JP-8080 if you're looking for a simple sound source to tweak and a bunch of buttons. I think it's 6 rack spaces, probably around 400 on ebay.


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## givemenoughrope (Apr 28, 2016)

If you get a mono synth (like a Slim Phatty) why not have an analog delay, spring reverb and maybe a sansamp in there? The Furman Spring Reverb is good and has a built in limiter.


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## Prockamanisc (Apr 28, 2016)

chimuelo said:


> Dump the Phonic immediately and get a Furman PL Pro


Keep in mind that these units could get hot and you might need to leave space in between them (sorry to be a buzzkill...)

Consider a 500 series rack so you can stack your units horizontally instead of vertically and get more space. I got a Radial Workhorse which has 8 slots and also includes 8 channels of analog summing, so it's a bonus for just 3U of space.


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## chimuelo (Apr 28, 2016)

I have a DSP rack that made me so nervous the first year I had it.
It was hotter than my 1U PC....I keep it on top just so cooler units don't feel it's heat.

The Furman PL+ is a cool runner, no problemos ever.
Have 3 x PLs.
Use 6 inch Power cables, nice and neat, short and sweet.


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## higgs (Apr 30, 2016)

If you do decide to get outboard gear check out Warm Audio's WA76 compressor. It's a really slick and very inexpensive clone of a UA 1176 - versatile and sweet sounding. Of course if you have the funding you could always buy the original or contemporary 1176. I've never met anyone who doesn't like that 'flavor' of compressor.

Really, Warm Audio are making super affordable clones of some of the top outboard compressors, preamps, and EQ.


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## chimuelo (May 1, 2016)

500 Series racks are awesome.
Meris Ottobit is the best Ring Modulation I ever heard.
But their Mercury 7 Reverb rivals older proven hardware costing 3 times as much.
Eventide DDL 500 or the Dimension D Chorus are glorious too.


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## chimuelo (May 4, 2016)

Just got another TC Fireworx from ebay for 350 USD.
35 algorithims.
ADAT, AES/EBU Analog and SP/DIF.
Beats the pants off of Apple and Microsoft effects.


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## Greg (May 4, 2016)

Recently got an Eventide H8000 and it blows my mind how deep and amazing sounding it is. I'd consider it if you want one badass FX unit that sounds as good as anything else out there and has it all in 2u's. It's not cheap (3500 used) but worth every dime.


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## germancomponist (May 4, 2016)

I have a Klark compressor/limiter/expander DN 500 in my rack and it is absolutely great! I know that this British tool is not well known in the USA, and it is more than 20 years old.


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## chimuelo (May 4, 2016)

Klarks Expander algo is so good Avalon bought it iirc.

To the OP.
I have been using the real time parameter modulating features of the Fireworx tonight.
Each preset can have 20 modifiers.
You can either twist the Alpha Knob like a soundman would do.
Use an Expression pedal to activate them, or assign the ModWheel or even PBend.

Thie Filter and Phaser on this unit are incredible.
The reverbs and delays are outstanding.
The Ring Modulator sounds like Joe Zawinul on Barbary Coast.
Pitch algos rival Eventide.

This is the last of the expensive hardware FX that will never become obsolete.
Usually they go for more.
Shop for one, you wont be sorry...


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## waveheavy (May 30, 2016)

Easy to think like, "just get something good enough to stick in there", but for my wants I'd think highest quality pro outboard as I could afford, even if it means fewer units.

I'd only need two units to do most of my processing; an analog EQ, and an analog Compressor. For the EQ, a Great River, or Pultec, or Manley, or Neve, etc. For the Comp, a Manley, or 1176, or LA-2A, or Dolby 160, etc. 

If I didn't go that route, one of my other options would be analog summing, using the Dangerous D-box fed from and returned to a high quality audio interface like a Lynx. 

My other choice would be to stay with option 1 but add top of the line A/D-D/A conversion, like Prism, Apogee, Lavry, Burl Audio, Mytek, Crane Song, or SSL.


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## wst3 (Jun 1, 2016)

ok, but you asked<G>...

Agree on dumping the Phonic power strip, don't agree on the Furman recommendation. The problem with most surge suppressors is that they use an expendable device to dump energy to ground. The expendable part is a real problem because there is no indication when the device fails, and dumping that energy into the ground can cause other problems. I strongly recommend a series mode protection device. I know that both SurgeX and Middle Atlantic sell them, not sure if anyone else has jumped on the bandwagon.

And I hate to be a wet blanket, but dump the patchbays too. They will fail, a matter of when, not if. I was really hoping that these would be a cost effective solution, but thus far I'm not convinced. I'd recommend Audio Accessories, they have a wide range to select from. If you are considering Bantam/TT patchbays (which save a ton of space) beware that you do NOT want to be making your own patch cables<G>!

What else...

For me, and my work flow, I find I tend to use hardware on the way in if I use it at all. That means preamplifiers and dynamics processing, I am shy away from dynamics processing, but sometimes it can not be helped. I don't use filters or EQ on the way in except for the High Pass filter on a preamplifier, and I try to avoid that. 

At mix time I may use dynamics processing again, and I may use an equalizer. Or I may do everything in the box. I never know!

Preamplifiers... you could go broke just buying preamplifiers! In the category of "only one" I'd have a difficult time choosing between Millenia Media and John Hardy. They are both outstanding! I might even add Doug Fearn to that list. Tough call! After that it is all about personality, you'd want clones of the Neve 1073 and the API 512, maybe the Tab/Telefunken Ux76? One approach, if you aren't pushing the preamplifiers too hard, is the card cage approach. Almost everyone makes preamplifier cards that fit the API 500 cages. One relative newcomer that is worth listening to is Fredenstein. His preamplifiers are neutral leaning towards Neve-ish. Very flexible!

If I had to buy only one compressor it would be an 1176 or one of the clones, it can work for tracking and on a 2-mix better than any other compressor I've used. It isn't the best for either, but it is 2nd best for both.
If I could afford additional channels of dynamics processing I'd still keep the 1176s, I'd add an LA-4 or maybe LA-2 for vocals. I'd add a couple channels of dBX 160 (the original one, buy used) for bass and drums. I'm not sure what I'd add for guitars, I can generally get a nice even sound with an 1176, but there are devices better suited, just not sure which one I'd pick today. And I'd look at either the SSL or API 2-mix compressors both sound great, but they are very different! There are DIY kits for both.

And then there are equalizers... I really don't know what I'd buy! The Massive Passive is cool, but expensive, and the same applies to Daking and Massenberg... all the cool equalizers seem to be insanely expensive. I really can't think of any current models, but if you don't mind used I really like the Urei, Symetrix and Orban equalizers a lot. Ashly made some cool equalizers too.

That leaves (hopefully) some room to utility stuff...

A good cue mixer is nice to have, I like the Pivitec, but I helped design it, so I am very biased!

A good monitor section is nearly as essential, and sometimes includes a rudimentary cue mixer. I have the Presonus Monitor Station (which is a desktop box), and I really like it. If I'd found a similarly good deal on their rack mount version I'd have grabbed that instead.

A really top shelf D/A converter? Probably a weak link in many studios, but which one??? I'm currently using the Presonus 1818VSL, which I like a lot, and the UAD Apollo Twin, which I like a little more. Neither is in the same league as devices from Lavry, Prism, et. al, but then neither is my room up to the task, so it was an reasonable optimization.

Effects - I'm not sure I'd spend money on outboard effects... the plugins have gotten so good. But the Bricasti is remarkable, and I happen to have a soft spot in my head for some of the dinosaurs - but keep in mind I've had them for decades, so it isn't quite the same thing as going out to purchase them today.

Your mileage will vary, of course, but for someone working in an adequate space I find that the D/A converter and the preamplifiers and A/D converters are the most critical. I do little processing on the way in, but a couple compressors will never hurt. I do almost all my effects in the computer, and I tend to at least try to do most of my mix processing there as well. If any of that rings a bell then perhaps the info above will be useful.

Quick post-note about analog summing... I'm pretty well convinced it is a good idea, but like a $1000/channel preamplifier, it is the icing on the cake. And I haven't gotten the cake right yet. I do have a Tangent 3216 (three of them actually) that I was supposed to stitch together 20 years ago. Life happens, and the parts are still in the back basement. At some point that will become my external summing device<G>!


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## Baron Greuner (Jun 1, 2016)

Professor Higgs beat me to the Warm Audio compressor, although I would also look at the WA-2A, based on the LA Teletronix.


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## gsilbers (Jun 1, 2016)

I like dr bills silver bullet. preamp and mastering color box.
http://store.louderthanliftoff.com/products/silver-bullet-drbills-stereo-tone-amp


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## Geo Hanlin (Jun 9, 2016)

I agree with chimuelo about the 500 rack direction. I think you should consider a good di setup for re-amping stomp boxes. Personally I wouldn't go the Line 6 direction... get some analog devices fox FX and saturation like some moogfoogers! -Although even cheaper pedals can sound incredible. You might benefit also by simply investing in some good filters. Even though you're wanting to be cost effective, a few serious pieces of outboard could ultimately prove worth the investment rather than chasing an elusive quality you have in mind (as many have). Add to that a tube or fet comp and say hallo to phatness


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## zolhof (Jun 9, 2016)

Any of these for the mix bus and you're good to go:

- Black Box HG-2
- Sonic Farm Creamliner II
- Louder Than Liftoff Silver Bullet

This is something I'd love to add to my setup, not on the cheap side though.


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## synthpunk (Jun 9, 2016)

A better power conditioner for sure. Ask a professional electrician what to use. The consumer stuff out there is pretty crap.

Better patchbays would be smart
www.Redco.com (if your in N/A) has what your looking for. They will last a lifetime

Black Magic Multidock SSD Dock

Universal Audio Apollo rack. The plugins will also allow you to get a warmer more musical sound and its a swiss army knife for everything else. (good converters, 8 line in/out, digital I/O, 4 good clean mic pres, good build in clock, etc.)

500 Series audio rack with modules to taste. If you want a warm musical sound Neve is a very good choice IMO. You can get a pair of RND 511's with silk for under 1K and go up in price from there.

Eurorack Modular synth with modules to taste. Warning once you have the bug your done.

Moog Mother 32 very warm, fat and expandable 1 osc Moog synth


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## chimuelo (Aug 28, 2016)

Well I tried a few Compressors.
Most had no Sidechain or had no beef.
DBX Quad is good for drums.
But I wanted transparency, color, punch and sidechaining.

Ended up with a Bellari RP583.
Stock it was punchy and had Sidechain.
But have just completed 8 modifications making it an incredible Stereo Tube Compressor with Sidechaining.

Got a pair of RCA 5751s (12AX7) and 6 x Analog Devices OpAmps used in Neve and SSL hardware.
AD823ANs are rare but got 6 brand new.

After a couple days of messing around this is a dream of a Compressor.
I use it for Bus Compression.
DBX Quad is punchy and transparent.
RP583 is so Manley ish.


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## mc_deli (Aug 29, 2016)

500 series, Radial XTC for outs to Moogerfoogers/Minifoogers is a very, very good way to go.


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## chimuelo (Aug 29, 2016)

I love the 500 series racks.
Are you using a 500 for time based effects too?
If so which one would you recommend..?


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## mc_deli (Sep 1, 2016)

chimuelo said:


> I love the 500 series racks.
> Are you using a 500 for time based effects too?
> If so which one would you recommend..?


I don't see the value in 500 series for delay/reverb. There are a few units but the Eventides and Strymons take some beating. One big advantage of the Eventide stompboxes is full stereo i/o plus the input AND output are switchable between line level and hiz.


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## chimuelo (Sep 1, 2016)

Almost bought the Eventide but TC Fireworx low cost and ADAT AES/EBU connectivity swayed me.
Eventide algos ported over for less numerous specific chores was brilliant.
Guy I hang with when gigging in Chicago has a killer Jaco sound.
Hartke bass rig with a Fender Jazz bass and EH Looper with Eventide sound incredible.


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## esencia (Oct 23, 2016)

wst3 said:


> ok, but you asked<G>...
> 
> A really top shelf D/A converter? Probably a weak link in many studios, but which one??? I'm currently using the Presonus 1818VSL, which I like a lot, and the UAD Apollo Twin, which I like a little more. Neither is in the same league as devices from Lavry, Prism, et. al, but then neither is my room up to the task, so it was an reasonable optimization.
> <G>!



I recommend you to test Antelope Orion 32. it rocks! 32 analog in/out channels and a pristine digital clock


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## synthpunk (Oct 23, 2016)

Lynx Aurora are great convertors. Burl is pretty awesome.

Jimmy, for rack delays, the TC D-Two is really good if you can find one used, but I use Echoboy & Primal Tap now.


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## wst3 (Oct 23, 2016)

esencia said:


> I recommend you to test Antelope Orion 32. it rocks! 32 analog in/out channels and a pristine digital clock


I've had the opportunity to use previous Antelope Audio converters, they are very good. I did look at the Orion 32 when I went shopping, that would pretty much cover my I/O requirements for a long time to come.

In fact I looked at a lot of different solutions, including adding an ADAT/SMUX capable converter to the 1818VSL, various UA Apollo boxes, and others. It isn't an easy choice, but fortunately it isn't a critical choice either - in my current room, and even in the room I designed for a near future build I seriously doubt I'll hear the difference. Well, that's not entirely fair, I'll hear a difference, but it will be about different, not better/worse.

So I decided to go down the UAD path, I really like their plug-ins a lot. I started with a Twin because, well, lets just say I was skeptical about the whole Unison thing. I was sufficiently impressed by Unison plug-ins. I will add either an Apollo 8 or maybe even a 16 when they (finally) add multiple device support for Windows, and even better, USB3. It is rumored to be RSN, and I'm patient. I like the idea of keeping the Twin close by and placing the rack version where I need it.

It would be lovely if ASIO supported multiple devices from different developers in Windoze (Core audio is pretty darned cool that way), but it doesn't, and that will remain a limiting factor. The latest drivers from both UA and Presonus do a really good job with WASAPI and WDM, but there is no guarantee that will last, so I'm somewhat at the mercy of developers to provide multiple device support. Which is OK, since I really like the UA hardware.

I should note that I am also experimenting with VEPro as an audio transport. I have an older (Q6600) machine that is not really suitable as a sampler slave (8GB Memory max) but if will serve nicely as a slave for both hardware and software synths. I will use my now obsolete Frontier Dakota/Montana for 32 channels of 48k/24 audio, and the Sierra for an extra 8 MIDI ports. Should work out nicely!

So that's my approach.


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## wst3 (Oct 23, 2016)

synthpunk said:


> Lynx Aurora are great convertors. Burl is pretty awesome.
> 
> Jimmy, for rack delays, the TC D-Two is really good if you can find one used, but I use Echoboy & Primal Tap now.



Lynx makes some fantastic converters! I've only heard the Burl converters at trade shows, but they do put on a good demo!! Another manufacturer that gets little love (if they sold sushi they'd market it as cold dead fish!) is Symetrix, aka Lucid Audio. I had a Symetrix 12x8 box in the studio about a year and a half ago (experimenting with Dante) and it sounded great!

SoundToys plug-ins - they have become a permanent part of my template! Well, not Radiator and Decapitator so much, but all the rest.. can't pick a favorite! If anyone had told me I'd give up hardware for software... well, you know<G>!

I still have a PCM-90 that is my 2-Mix reverb, and I'm still looking to eventually replace it with software, but so far it wins - wonder if I am kidding myself?. And I still have a pair of Delta Lab CE-1700 Compu-Effectrons, one of which recently went on the fritz, which I just can't give up. That reminds me, I need to buy the service manual for that one!


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## higgs (Oct 23, 2016)

synthpunk said:


> Lynx Aurora are great convertors. Burl is pretty awesome.
> 
> Jimmy, for rack delays, the TC D-Two is really good if you can find one used, but I use Echoboy & Primal Tap now.


+1 on Burl - spendy but they sound awesome.


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## martincraneV (Oct 28, 2016)

Outboard distortion... I've got a Sherman Filterbank 2. It's a gnarly, filtered distortion w tons of knobs that I haven't been able to replicate in the box. mc_deli mentioned the Radial XTC... It's great for hooking up stomp box distortion, too, and it's pretty cheap. Plus you can use it to reamp.

Outboard spring reverb. Software hasn't gotten springs right yet (though the UAD bx20 sounds really great). Orban, Vermona, Demeter...


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## synthpunk (Oct 28, 2016)

I use distortion ITB these days (Decapitator, Ohmcide, UBK-1/Pusher, Saturn, Guitar Rig)

Softube The Spring is pretty good if you cannot afford the BX20. https://www.softube.com/index.php?id=sr


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## higgs (Oct 28, 2016)

martincraneV said:


> Outboard distortion...


I found a great demo deal on a first generation Thermionic Culture _The Rooster_ last year and snatched it up. The Rooster has some great distortion options with characteristics borrowing a bit from the Culture Vulture. It's sort of the best of many worlds for dual channel preamp with EQ and distortion - this pony has several tricks that I love. This runs into a 2ch Burl B2 ADC which has it's own ability to add color if desired; it's always dialed up for me 

I'm pretty picky about my sound, and it's a highly subjective, personal, and emotional process, so it's taken a long time to craft/find a tone that I consistently like to record with. I've had preamps come and go along with several different microphones, interfaces & converters - very few of the outboard boxes ever really resonated with me enough to justify keeping them. I nearly sold a couple of preamps recently, but adding the Burl into the path really turned things around.

If I knew then what I know now (and the more you learn, the less you know...), the process of tone-making would have likely taken just as long but it probably could have been significantly less frustrating. The advice I would give the > 20 year younger version of me when starting the process would be something to the effect of:

trust your ears
expect the process to take some time

don't expect what you buy to be what you want (see also #1)
auditioning is most meaningful in your own environment

ask if the reseller has demo pieces to audition/rent (if you like it you might be able to buy the demo on discount)
look for demo deals

be absolutely 100% crystal clear on return policies before purchasing
keep the product boxes for at least a year
give to a charity
always buy toilet paper in excess


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