# Double stops, triple stops, etc..



## Scott Cairns (Mar 23, 2005)

Leandro's interesting post got me thinking...

Is there a simple way to work out when more than one note is playable on string instruments? Like a chart or something? :? 

In my orchestrations, I often write a lot of two and three part harmonies for any one family of string instruments. (see pic, left.) I often wonder if it would be played divisi by a real orchestra, (potentially thining out the sound by spreading it amongst different players), or would most of it be handled by one player peforming double or triple stops?

I guess I just have to put my head back in the orchestration books and try to memorise it. :shock: :D Or are there perhaps some "rules" that help?


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## Stephen Rees (Mar 23, 2005)

Hi Scott,

The easiest way to work out if multiple stops are playable is to write out all the notes in a chart with 4 lines, just like the strings, then you can actually sit there and put (or imagine) your fingers on the chart to see if they are playable. So for a violin say, you'd have a chart like this...............

E F F# G.........
A A# B C........
D D# E F........
G G# A A#......

If you want to take it further, you could stick the chart on to a ruler, then you can place your fingers on the ruler to check your multiple stops.

Humm, have I explained that well enough? It's one of those things that's 100 times easier to show someone than to write down!

Most often if you look at scores, they are played divisi.

Strictly speaking, for a violinist to play a triple stop, it has to be played with a very heavy bow so that all three strings sound at once, or the bottom string will be played, then the upper two strings. Triple stops tend to be used for short loud stabbed chords.

A quadruple stop is pretty impossible to play with all 4 strings simultaneously, so the chord would probably be broken into the lower two strings, then the upper two strings within one bow by each player. Again it probably works best for short stabbed chords.

Basically, if you have long sustained chords, you will either be having them played divisi, or with double stops. Divisi seems more common, but a better orchestrator than me could probably tell you which you'd want and when.

Steve

Edit : Just been looking at a few good scores for strings writing. Bartok's 'Concerto for Orchestra', Stravinsky's 'Firebird' and John Williams 'Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone' are all pretty good. I suppose the best thing to do would be listen out for music where the string sound is interesting and something you'd like to use, then buy the score. Debussy and Copland are worth looking at too, as is Ravel, and Sibelius, Lutoslawski, Penderecki blah blah blah! They all used strings in different ways and got different sounds out of them.


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 23, 2005)

One great book that gives you all the information about the possible techniques in all orchestral intruments is "La tecnica de la orquestra contemporanea" by Alfredo Casella (the composer)...the one that I have is in spanish but I?m sure you?l find it in english too...
...this book does not teach you how to orchestrate harmony , melody etc...because it focus only the techniques of each intruments...it tells you if the articulation is easy or not , and how difficult it is , also it shows you how fast you can write for each articulation (glissandos , multiple stops , trills , tremolos , staccatos , harmonics etc...)and the best thing is that all of these articulations comes with an chart!!!
It has helped me a lot since I bougth it , unfortunately I could not find the answer about the double bass playing pizzicatos in octaves before I post the other topic...but now I realized that it?s there!!!


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## PolarBear (Mar 23, 2005)

Not an easy one. A book about orchestration might be a good choice here.

Violins have 4 strings tuned in quints -> G D A E

Violas have 4 string tuned in quints -> C G D A

Celli have 4 strings tuned in quints -> C G D A

Double basses have 4 [or 5] strings, tuned in quarts (or as C extension, but even then usually B) -> [B(C)] E A D G

So for violins and violas there should be possible for sustains thirds, quarts, quints and sixths - celli and double basses thirds quarts and quints. And the combinations with an empty string to the next one, but I wouldn't use those due to timbral differences of empty strings.

If almost all of a voicing is in two or three part harmonies it will be played as divisi, you're orchestration should match the lower section size then. On the other side, three part harmonies that were extensively used e.g. in the romantic area were also played by bigger ensembles, so the individual voice was stronger per se. Also, two and three part harmonies per voice do tend to have a thicker tone and therefore sometimes don't even need greater adjustemnts in respect to the other instruments playing alongside.

One thing to I thought about - why do we composers adjust? If two oboes are needed, the conductor will bring two oboes. If 28 violins are needed, why would he bring only 22?

Hope this helps a bit,
PolarBear


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## Scott Cairns (Mar 23, 2005)

Thanks guys, thats all very useful information. After I posted this topic, I took my Study of Orchestration book to bed (as you do!) and read up on the subject.

It seems that most double stops are playable, only a few are not. I think Stephen had a good point about listening to scores that contain double stops and deciding if that is a sound you are specifically going for.

I guess if the division of voicing is planned carefully, their is possibly less need for all the string groups to be playing two or three notes a piece. Ican always use woodwinds to thicken string passages anyway.

I suspect, althought I dont know for sure, that some of Hans Zimmers action cues make use of double stops as the strings almost sound thick and synthy at times. Probably not surprising either for an ex-keyboardist.


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## handz (Mar 23, 2005)

. Probably not surprising either for an ex-keyboardist. [/quote] Video killed the radio star :roll:


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## Scott Rogers (Apr 5, 2005)

..........


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## Herman Witkam (Apr 5, 2005)

If you want to attach jpgs: Place them on your server, and then place the full URL between "




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## fitch (May 10, 2005)

thing is .. when us string players see these double stops etc .. we usually just divide them throughout the section anyway..

just to make sure everything is balanced and intune

never played in a section where we do anything else.

sometimes it's by the desk (the 2 people sitting next to each other play the same note and then the desk behind plays a lower note)

or sometimes it's by the player (the "outside" of the 2 people plays the top note and the "inside" plays the bottom)

if it's divisi in 3 then we have to decide yet another way between us LOL .. it's always very democratic :D

..

now, for small groups like string quartets, that's a different matter. you can't divisi with yourself, can you ?

:wink:


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