# Tell me about your RME Fireface UFX+



## nas (Jan 11, 2020)

I'm in the market for a new interface and after a lot of consideration I'm now nearly 99% leaning towards the RME UFX + as I feel it would be much more suited to my workflow as well as the quality of the drivers. I know that RME drivers are absolutely legendary and have a longstanding reputation for stability and ultra low latency.

However, I would like to hear from those of you how you're finding the conversion and overall sound quality? I'm coming from Mytek converters which are stellar but are only 2 channel and also just converters so they are running S/PDIF through an old MOTU interface and the latency is killing me.

How about the onboard micpre's ? I have some external pres but having some extra onboard certainly won't hurt. How do you like their sound?

Any feedback or reports "from the field" would be helpful.

Thanks.


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## Kent (Jan 11, 2020)

I love mine. Very low latency and high stability compared to any of the other interfaces I've ever owned or used, and TotalMix is my favorite of its class of "intermediary mixing" softwares.

I do find using the RME ARC USB to be invaluable. It makes preset recall and volume control much easier than from the front face, IMO.


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## Pablocrespo (Jan 11, 2020)

I am in the verge of getting the same one. I would also like to know more about the converters and if thunderbolt can help achieve lower buffer settings in large projects (direct communication with cpu thus less cpu usage) or if usb is good enough.


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## Pier (Jan 11, 2020)

Pablocrespo said:


> if thunderbolt can help achieve lower buffer settings in large projects



I'd be very surprised if TB made any difference. The buffer setting depends on how optimized drivers and how much work you are throwing to the CPU, not the bandwidth of the IO. The inherent latency of USB 3 is in the microseconds realm, totally imperceptible. In USB 2 the latency was 125 microseconds (so 0.125 milliseconds) and USB 3 was greatly improved over that.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 11, 2020)

I only know RME's older interfaces, and they were very good. It seems hard to go wrong with an RME product.

Having said that:



nas said:


> 'm coming from Mytek converters which are stellar but are only 2 channel and also just converters so they are running S/PDIF through an old MOTU interface and the latency is killing me.



The time through A/D converters is likely to be less than a couple of milliseconds. I suspect that the latency is coming from somewhere else.



nas said:


> I know that RME drivers are absolutely legendary and have a longstanding reputation for stability and ultra low latency.



They make very good interfaces, but that adage always feels like hype to me - not because it's untrue, but because pretty much every else's drivers are also good at this stage.


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## nas (Jan 11, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I only know RME's older interfaces, and they were very good. It seems hard to go wrong with an RME product.
> 
> Having said that:
> 
> ...



In addition to the Mytek going S/PDIF into the interface (which added a significant amount of latency to the chain) running VEP on another machine has added some latency and running larger track counts with plugins and larger buffer settings has also had a pronounced affect.

As far as hype... well they've been at it for over 20 years and were probably achieving the low latency performance and stability at a time when no one else really was... and they've maintained that edge for a very long time consistently, so I think the legendary status is probably well deserved.

Anyway I'm really asking more about the sound of the converters and micr pre's. Have you had any experience with this particular unit?


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## Dunshield (Jan 11, 2020)

Pier Bover said:


> I'd be very surprised if TB made any difference.



Thunderbolt does achieve slightly better workloads and lower latencies compared to USB3 according to Tafkat's infamous DAW Bench LLP test results. Also see the jpg attached - I hope Vince is OK with me posting a condensed version here. You can also check out his site www.dawbench.com.

I might be in the market for an UFX+ too .. am still working on a Fireface 800 which is / and has been rock solid. Alternatively I am considering a HDSPe MADI based system because I'll need more inputs over time.

*Whether or not TB works better on your computer, that is the main question though.* One concern is that TB isn't officially supported by AMD systems (yet). Although there are workarounds; in some cases this depends on mobo, chipset .. And correct me if I'm wrong but even on Intel systems TB might not be that universally well implemented - especially when it comes to mixing or combining different generations of TB1 / TB2 / TB3 .. but please don't quote me on that last remark, I might have it all wrong.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 11, 2020)

> Anyway I'm really asking more about the sound of the converters and micr pre's. Have you had any experience with this particular unit?



Not that particular one, no. But their older FireWire units were among the best-sounding interfaces when I had a bunch of them in for a comparison article, so I'd expect that to be true today.



nas said:


> In addition to the Mytek going S/PDIF into the interface (which added a significant amount of latency to the chain) running VEP on another machine has added some latency and running larger track counts with plugins and larger buffer settings has also had a pronounced affect.



It all adds up, no question, and VE Pro adds two host buffers (depending on how it's set, but that's the default). I'm just saying it would be surprising for an A/D converter going into an interface to add a lot of latency. A trip through a digital mixer - that's both directions - is typically 3mS @ 44.1 or 48kHz. It's when you go through a computer that it starts getting noticeable - unless you're Steve Ferroni, who is bothered by digital mixers' latency.



> As far as hype... well they've been at it for over 20 years and were probably achieving the low latency performance and stability at a time when no one else really was... and they've maintained that edge for a very long time consistently, so I think the legendary status is probably well deserved.



I'm more cynical than you about that kind of thing!

Obligatory car analogy (or comparison): I'm sure it's true that Volvo is the safest car. But many other cars are also the safest car.

However, i's also true that RME's PCI interfaces were the choice of champions during the Gigasampler era.

I think I actually still have one in one of my Giga machines.


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## gsilbers (Jan 11, 2020)

i have the old rme ff800 and its been great. got it new. i was surprised how much audio interfaces have come a long way in the last 10 years.
the mic preamps and converters of the berhinger and focurite affordable interface rival the famous big guys easily. there are a ton of shootouts and examples and word of mouth. in the last decade these companies have been upping each other and know how to build an interface.
so i woudnt worry about converter and mic preamps from rme. they will be top notch just like most newer interfaces. any onboard interface micpre will be the normal gain, clean mic pre. you wont hear any difference if its just clean signal. if you want neve/higher gain/make harmonics shine then no, youll get nicer results wiht outboard micpres.


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## Tim_Wells (Jan 11, 2020)

This is just my opinion. But you would have to have ears like a bat to tell any difference between the Mytek and RME.


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## nas (Jan 11, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Not that particular one, no. But their older FireWire units were among the best-sounding interfaces when I had a bunch of them in for a comparison article, so I'd expect that to be true today.



Cool that's good to know.


Nick Batzdorf said:


> I'm more cynical than you about that kind of thing!
> 
> Obligatory car analogy (or comparison): I'm sure it's true that Volvo is the safest car. But many other cars are also the safest car.
> 
> ...



I remember back around 1999 I was on a project with a very accomplished and well known producer and phenomenal Jazz guitarist from Boston. This was back at the tail end of the Studio Vision days and he had just picked up the RME Hammerfall card - I can't remember what converters he was using, but he couldn't stop raving about RME and the rock solid stability and low latency that he was getting. It was the very first time I'd heard of RME. Kept hearing this over and over and as the years have gone by I still keep hearing it. Others may have caught up or have come close today but like cars, it's those that have stood the test of time consistently that seem to have earned that status.


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## nas (Jan 11, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> i have the old rme ff800 and its been great. got it new. i was surprised how much audio interfaces have come a long way in the last 10 years.
> the mic preamps and converters of the berhinger and focurite affordable interface rival the famous big guys easily. there are a ton of shootouts and examples and word of mouth. in the last decade these companies have been upping each other and know how to build an interface.
> so i woudnt worry about converter and mic preamps from rme. they will be top notch just like most newer interfaces. any onboard interface micpre will be the normal gain, clean mic pre. you wont hear any difference if its just clean signal. if you want neve/higher gain/make harmonics shine then no, youll get nicer results wiht outboard micpres.





Tim_Wells said:


> This is just my opinion. But you would have to have ears like a bat to tell any difference between the Mytek and RME.



I agree. I was listening to a shootout of a few units including RME and there were a few cheaper units - less full featured and with less I/O that sounded very good. They did have subtle differences when compared side by side - I could hear a slightly more relaxed mid range for example on the RME and more detail in the highs and lows with a wider soundstage, but it was so subtle as to be insignificant, especially when you factor in so many other aspect such as room, monitors, and of course skill set.


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## germancomponist (Jan 11, 2020)

My girlfriend uses a RME USB audio interface, baby interface, and it is sooooo good!


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## nas (Jan 11, 2020)

germancomponist said:


> My girlfriend uses a RME USB audio interface, baby interface, and it is sooooo good!



So I hear! They are supposed to be releasing the new Babyface Pro FS at NAMM in a few days which supposedly has improved clocking as well USB C . If I didn't need the I/O it would definitely be on my short list. I may even pick one up for a mobile rig.


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## Pablocrespo (Jan 11, 2020)

So if you don’t need madi or lots of io could ufx II suffice?

Thunderbolt usually means an adapter card T3 to T2 adapter. Expensive cables?


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## Pier (Jan 11, 2020)

Dunshield said:


> Thunderbolt does achieve slightly better workloads and lower latencies compared to USB3 according to Tafkat's infamous DAW Bench LLP test results.



Slightly but almost to the point of being negligible when drivers are optimized. For example if you look at the results the difference between the RME UFX+ TB and the USB3 version is less than 5% and most likely imperceptible to the human ear.

I'm getting about 5ms of roundtrip latency with my Audient iD4 which is a pretty basic interface and nobody has ever perceived any latency. For reference, 5ms is the time it takes for sound to travel 1.5 meters (5 feet). It's totally imperceptible. With an RME interface roundtrip is even less than that, USB or otherwise.


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## nas (Jan 12, 2020)

Pablocrespo said:


> So if you don’t need madi or lots of io could ufx II suffice?
> 
> Thunderbolt usually means an adapter card T3 to T2 adapter. Expensive cables?



I do need the I/O but not necessarily MADI. I believe though that the UFX II is actually USB 2 not USB 3? Anyway, my current Mac is TB2 and USB3 so no adapters needed for the time being. Either way, when I eventually upgrade my Mac it's going to require a USB C adapter anyway.


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## brojd (Jan 12, 2020)

While I have never used the UFX+ in a studio situation, we have used it on stage for clicktracks, backing tracks, timecode for video and pyro for hundreds of shows live shows.
Still haven’t had a single problem with it.

That in combination that I’ve used 3-4 other RME interfaces for several years (almost a decade) in the studio while recording/writing and i guess close to 1000 live shows now makes me a very loyal RME customer.

If they keep doing what they’re doing with rock solid units and drivers I’ll keep on buying.


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## MHP (Jan 12, 2020)

I just received my new UFX+ 6 weeks ago and can highly recommend it.

Coming from a 10 yrs. old mid-range Focusrite Saffire I mainly expected improvements in driver stability/long-term maintenance (Focusrite just announced the end of support for Saffire MixControl) and the quality of the mic-pres.

But I was really surprised by the improvements in playback quality. It was like I also got some new speakers - much better clarity and stereo imaging. DA-conversion and analog circuits are on a different level. The difference may be smaller compared to current mid-range interfaces - I don't know...

Other advantages which I really like in my studio environment:
- Analog and digital connectivity (ADAT, AES/EBU, MADI)
- The software TotalMix FX has nearly unlimited possibilities and is easy to use
- All settings can be stored in snapshots which makes it a pleasure to switch between different recording sessions ('total recall')
- Integrated DSP is very useful for monitoring and playback
- Direct USB recording
- Remote control via iPad
- Latency is very low, but was not an issue for me before

So for my requirements I could not find anything better for the price!


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## EvilDragon (Jan 12, 2020)

UFX+ is awesome! 

RME is mostly about transparent sound as far as converters are concerned. Mytek is a whole different ballgame price wise, there's a reason why you pay that amount of cash for just two channels. For some, this matters and they can hear the difference. 

As for me, I went to UFX+ from TC Electronic Impact Twin. Mostly because of connectivity and drivers. I was not disappointed. IMHO it is the best bang for buck interface if you need that kind of connectivity. RME ASIO drivers need no mention, they are stellar.


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## Pablocrespo (Jan 12, 2020)

EvilDragon said:


> UFX+ is awesome!
> 
> RME is mostly about transparent sound as far as converters are concerned. Mytek is a whole different ballgame price wise, there's a reason why you pay that amount of cash for just two channels. For some, this matters and they can hear the difference.
> 
> As for me, I went to UFX+ from TC Electronic Impact Twin. Mostly because of connectivity and drivers. I was not disappointed. IMHO it is the best bang for buck interface if you need that kind of connectivity. RME ASIO drivers need no mention, they are stellar.



Mario, I have been asking about TB because I get conflicting info online and I know you know about this stuff.

When I ask about thunderbolt, everybody talks about roundtrip latency, and say that RME TB and USB are on par with their performance, but I have read that being thunderbolt connected to the pci lane and the cpu, can achieve better performance, thus allowing to lower buffers, and getting better Vsti latencies.

Is this true in the real world? would I gain for investing in thunderbolt or an UFX II with USB2 would be the same if not using large I/O counts?


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## Rob Elliott (Jan 12, 2020)

My RME Multiface II (10 years and STILL going) is perfect. But with more I/O needs I just may 'upgrade' to the UFX. Question now. Which version?

RME is in a league all their own. Does anyone know if the UFX convertors are an improvement over the multiface II ones?


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## EvilDragon (Jan 12, 2020)

Pablocrespo said:


> Mario, I have been asking about TB because I get conflicting info online and I know you know about this stuff.
> 
> When I ask about thunderbolt, everybody talks about roundtrip latency, and say that RME TB and USB are on par with their performance, but I have read that being thunderbolt connected to the pci lane and the cpu, can achieve better performance, thus allowing to lower buffers, and getting better Vsti latencies.
> 
> Is this true in the real world? would I gain for investing in thunderbolt or an UFX II with USB2 would be the same if not using large I/O counts?



TB vs USB2, TB should be a clear winner. However I didn't test this on my UFX+ (plus UFX+ is USB3, not USB2).

However, do note that RTL only matters when you're recording live input (like vocals, drums, guitars), if you're monitoring through plugins. This is where every sample counts. If you're doing this and rely on it, then yes you should invest in TB. If you're just playing back VIs, then RTL doesn't matter to you since one half of that loop (the inputs) is not there really.



Rob Elliott said:


> Does anyone know if the UFX convertors are an improvement over the multiface II ones?



Just going by the spec sheet should get you some answers, at least pointers. It's been 10 years, I would expect them to be better/cleaner/more transparent.

EDIT: Yeah... SNR is about 2-3 dB better, but THD is a good 12 or so dB better on UFX+.


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## nas (Jan 12, 2020)

Rob Elliott said:


> My RME Multiface II (10 years and STILL going) is perfect. But with more I/O needs I just may 'upgrade' to the UFX. Question now. Which version?
> 
> RME is in a league all their own. Does anyone know if the UFX convertors are an improvement over the multiface II ones?



The UFX II and the UFX+ both have newer improved converters and mic pres.


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## David Chappell (Jan 12, 2020)

I'm evidently very much in the minority, but for me it definitely was not a pain-free experience. I had severe issues with dropouts as soon as I got it, and never did manage to figure out the cause after trying everything I could find on google. RME support as it happens, is possibly the worst I've seen - one reply blaming my computer, and every followup was ignored. Possible causes from googling were an X99 motherboard, ASUS motherboards, and Nvidia graphics cards. Unforunately I've no idea which, if any, of these it was. It took a near complete rebuild of my PC, changing motherboard, graphics card, and adding a thunderbolt card, to get it working.

As of now, it's working, but still not fully without faults. I use Sonarworks as room correction, and it seems to not get on well with that. Few other niggles I still need to figure out when I have time. Other than that, it's a nice interface. Plenty inputs and outputs, enough to do me for anything I'm ever likely to do, and there's definitely a noticeable increase in sound quality.

So yeah, the whole experience rather soured me, and I'll probably not consider them again. RME does appear to have a stellar reputation though, so who knows what went wrong with my system.


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## EvilDragon (Jan 12, 2020)

I'd venture saying nVidia might've been the culprit. Did you ever run DPC latency checker on that older machine, to see which module generates the most DPCs (which would be the cause of your dropouts)? This is how you get to the bottom of things. It could've been network, wifi, nVidia driver, all sorts of things...


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## nas (Jan 20, 2020)

Hey folks just wanted to say that I pulled the trigger and ordered the UFX+ I'm looking forward to getting it in the studio and really having it as my main workhorse. Should also be interesting to compare it with my older Mytek converters side by side, although ultimately it's the work flow and drivers that helped tip the balance over to RME. Can't wait!

Thanks to all for your feedback - much appreciated.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Jan 20, 2020)

I used a UFX for several years - for the reasons you state. It worked very well for me. As the studio grew, I eventually used up all its IO - all the analog IO, the ADAT IO, etc. The unit always performed well. The driver updates are regular, the built-in DSP mixer is quite handy for lots of signal routing things. 

One thing I did experience is that as the channel count rose, distance and USB cable quality mattered, especially at 96kHz, but even at 48kHz. With it maxed out, I couldn't use a 15' USB cable. The 3M were the most that would work. I didn't buy any fancy USB cables, but I did find that some worked better than others. I'm assuming that it just has to do with how much bandwidth is going down the wire. 

When I needed more I/O, I ultimately moved onto a Focusrite Dante setup with the PCIe card in my DAW. It was definitely an improvement in latency and scale. But the UFX was a rock solid interface for me and it very much performed as advertised and as its reputation suggested.

It is very worth it to get great drivers. Everything we do depends on it. 

I have not used the UFX+, but I would have no reason to doubt that it does what it says on the website. This is a mature, quality platform that has many years of development behind it.


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## nas (Jan 20, 2020)

Nathanael Iversen said:


> It is very worth it to get great drivers. Everything we do depends on it.
> 
> I have not used the UFX+, but I would have no reason to doubt that it does what it says on the website. This is a mature, quality platform that has many years of development behind it.



Agree with you 100% ! One really starts to appreciate that stability and performance especially when under deadlines where reliability is so critical.


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## Tim_Wells (Jan 21, 2020)

nas said:


> Hey folks just wanted to say that I pulled the trigger and ordered the UFX+ I'm looking forward to getting it in the studio and really having it as my main workhorse. Should also be interesting to compare it with my older Mytek converters side by side, although ultimately it's the work flow and drivers that helped tip the balance over to RME. Can't wait!
> 
> Thanks to all for your feedback - much appreciated.


This may not be your experience, but I can tell you that I preferred the sound of my RME (Babyface) over my Mytek 2-channel. It may have been the signal-to-noise ratio or something else to do with my signal chain. Although I was running a Great River 1-ME NV straight to the Mytek > SPDIF > PC. The DAC was SPDIF > Mytek > speakers. Everything was clocked to the Mytek. I also tried clocking to my sound card and it made no difference.

I'm not dissing the Mytek. I have no doubt that it's very high quality gear. The cause may have been my lack of engineering skills. But as I said in a previous post, I wouldn't be surprised if you like the sound of the RME better.


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## nas (Jan 21, 2020)

Tim_Wells said:


> This may not be your experience, but I can tell you that I preferred the sound of my RME (Babyface) over my Mytek 2-channel. It may have been the signal-to-noise ratio or something else to do with my signal chain. Although I was running a Great River 1-ME NV straight to the Mytek > SPDIF > PC. The DAC was SPDIF > Mytek > speakers. Everything was clocked to the Mytek. I also tried clocking to my sound card and it made no difference.
> 
> I'm not dissing the Mytek. I have no doubt that it's very high quality gear. The cause may have been my lack of engineering skills. But as I said in a previous post, I wouldn't be surprised if you like the sound of the RME better.




Tim, your signal chain almost mirrors mine exactly. The only difference is I'm running a couple of channels of John Hardy M1 mic pres into the Mytek and I'm on a Mac as the master machine. Not sure yet how the two compare but I'm guessing that the differences may be fairly negligible - at least in practice and in actual use on a project.

I'm curious what's your monitoring environment and setup like?


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## Tim_Wells (Jan 22, 2020)

nas said:


> I'm curious what's your monitoring environment and setup like?


It's nothing special...at all! It's Babyface > speakers/headphones. 

I use several source to check my mixes:
- Mackie HR824s (the originals). I plan to replace some day.
- IK Multimedia iLoud Micro Monitors
- A single mono Avantone Pro MixCube
- Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro headphones

In addition, I use Sonarworks on the speakers and headphones. 

Again, this is just my opinion. But unless you're running a mastering business or some type of high-end commercial studio, it's hard for me to imagine that the RME Fireface UFX+ wouldn't be everything you need and more. However, I'll be the first to admit that I do not have "golden ears"!


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## berto (Feb 17, 2021)

MHP said:


> I just received my new UFX+ 6 weeks ago and can highly recommend it.
> 
> Coming from a 10 yrs. old mid-range Focusrite Saffire I mainly expected improvements in driver stability/long-term maintenance (Focusrite just announced the end of support for Saffire MixControl) and the quality of the mic-pres.
> 
> ...


Would you pls post some buffers stats. I am interested in the Fireface UFX+ but i don't know how low the latency will be...

at the moment with my Presonus 192 i have :

Buffer 32 6.8ms roundtrip (2.8ms output)
64 8.3ms roundtrip (3.5ms output)
128 11.2ms roundtrip (5.0ms output)

is it any better with USB?
and connected via TB2?

thank you

B.


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