# How to make Hollywood Strings Opus sound BIG???



## Svendstar (Dec 15, 2022)

Hi, i have due to the sale been tempted to buy HO-OPUS, i have played around with it quite a lot but i still think the string samples (actually, every sample) sound small and "Dry".

Now here is the thing, i have scouted a lot on this forum, and the peoples options on HO-OPUS tend to fall into 2 categories:

Peoplo who don't like the sound of Hollywood Orchestra becauese it sounds "dry".
People who really LOVE it, and claim everyone else just doesn't know how to use it.
I would like help from people in group number 2. They also claim HO is really flexible and can be made to sound however you want.

In this case, i want to focus at the moment to make the string section sound BIG and EPIC!!! 

I want it to sound Comparable to Metropolis Ark 1 (Which I own, but it doesn't separate the string sections, which is why i bought OPUS).

Meanwhile, i am also unfortunately a beginner with Virtual Orchestration, so i don't have a lot of experience. So i have compiled a list of questions that i gather may or may not help me make the big sound, here goes:


The Reverb and Panning: OPUS already comes with an inbuilt reverb from EW-Spaces, inside the PLAY tab, would using this reverb alone be enough or do we need to put in another reverb outside this?
Then I assume we need to Pan each Instrument to create separation in the soundscape. How would we do this to optimize for BIG sound?
EQ: How to EQ specifically this library to make it sound BIG?
MIC POSITIONS: What is the optimal microphone combination ?
Layering: I read somewhere that to create a bigger sound you can layer different patches and articulations of the same instrument on top of eachother, to create a fuller sound. Is this true? I know you can layer different libraries together, but i am talking specifically about layering samples from the SAME library (HOOPUS) on top of eachother.
Also, when i open up a single instrument, say the Cello, on the HO-ORCHESTRATOR, it sound instantly bigger and better than loading the sample by itself. Why is this and how can i get the same effect manually?

Well, this is all information i have gathered so far. Please help. If there is anything i have missed, or something i don't know, please point me in the right direction so i can learn more myself. I am determined to learn everything i can with HOOPUS, since it appereantly is the best library and can be very flexible. 

I thank everyone of you in advance! Thanks for the help 😀


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## Jackdnp121 (Dec 15, 2022)

I think what you mean by 'big' is sounding Thick .....

to me Hollywood Opus sounded big ... and Wide ... but the sound itself is not Thick if thats what you mean 

I dont think Metropolis 1 Sounded big .. it sounded loud 

have you tried the EPIC Setting on the Opus ? 

if you would like it to sounded THICK you should layer with library from different company 

Lastly ... TBH the best thing to make your music sounded "big' is through good orchestration 

cheers


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## Svendstar (Dec 15, 2022)

Jackdnp121 said:


> I think what you mean by 'big' is sounding Thick .....
> 
> to me Hollywood Opus sounded big ... and Wide ... but the sound itself is not Thick if thats what you mean
> 
> ...


Semantics, huh? 

Well, then you are probably right. It is the Metropolis Ark 1 sound i am after. "Thick and Loud" is probably a better description.

I have tried the epic setting, but on first glance i think it just makes it sound less detailed, more distant and quieter. But i have not tried composing an entire section on that setting, only heard it per/instrument. So i will try that and see how it goes.

Well about layering a different library on top. I only have HO and MA1 at the moment, if i layer MA1 on top it defeats the purpose of trying to make HO sound like MA1.


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## Jackdnp121 (Dec 15, 2022)

Nothing semantics mate 

just trying to help 

good luck


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## JSteel (Dec 15, 2022)

Jackdnp121 said:


> Lastly ... TBH the best thing to make your music sounded "big' is through good orchestration


How about determining "good orchestration" in the context of "big sound"?


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## Svendstar (Dec 15, 2022)

Jackdnp121 said:


> Nothing semantics mate
> 
> just trying to help
> 
> good luck


Don't worry about semantics, i am still learning the vocabulary of how to describe sounds. Thank you for the help! I really appreciate it! 😃


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## Jackdnp121 (Dec 15, 2022)

JSteel said:


> How about determining "good orchestration" in the context of "big sound"?


there's a guy call John William that does great music with amazing orchestration ..

Big sound


cheers


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## Jacohlamusic (Dec 15, 2022)

Svendstar said:


> Hi, i have due to the sale been tempted to buy HO-OPUS, i have played around with it quite a lot but i still think the string samples (actually, every sample) sound small and "Dry".
> 
> Now here is the thing, i have scouted a lot on this forum, and the peoples options on HO-OPUS tend to fall into 2 categories:
> 
> ...


Hello Svenstar. I do not use HO, but there are various methods to accomplish getting the big sounds with instruments. It all depends on your instrumentation and mix.
Experiment with this.
Turn off the reverb in the HO plugin. You need to be able to control the reverb so use a separate plugin for the reverb. Valhalla is a good one.
After you have recorded your instrument, create a copy of your track. You now have two tracks.
Add an EQ to each track and slightly boost the mids 2 or 3 db in different frequencies for each track. Not too much. Make sure to check your EQ frequencies to see if you have too many instruments competing in the same frequencies which will muddy up the mix. I use a dynamic EQ to check and control frequencies. Also it is a good idea to look at the low frequencies. You do not want too many instruments (bass, drums, synths) operating in the very low frequencies which takes up a lot of energy and muddies up the mix. So using the EQ apply a high pass filter individually to each one.

You can also add different compression settings to each track.
Add some saturation to both tracks to bring out the instruments in the mix without raising the volume. 
You can also use automation to increase volume and panning in specific sections. Play with the panning. Sometimes I use different amounts of reverb in each track to add width. Play around with the reverb predelay also.
There are so many approaches depending on the composition and mix. There are some pretty good tutorials on YouTube addressing creating a big sound. One of my favorite producers/engineers is Mark Daniel Nelson. 

This one covers vocals, but you can apply to many situations.
Hope this stirs your creative juices!


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## Snarf (Dec 15, 2022)

About reverb:

Disable the default reverbs. Use a good reverb plugin on your section busses (strings, brass, woodwinds, percussion), or even just your orchestra bus. It depends on the amount of control you want over the sound. As noted, the samples are fairly dry, especially in comparison to Ark 1 so you'll also need to compensate with a decent amount of added reverb. There are plenty of threads and youtube videos about this topic.


About mics:

This depends on what your computer can handle. The main/mid mic (whatever is enabled by default) is more than enough for most cases. You can always add a bit of close mic or a splash of surround to taste later. I rarely touch the vintage mics.

About panning:
Hollywood Orchestra was recorded in orchestral seating position (e.g. violins to the left, basses to the right), so you don't need to pan it. It will probably sound worse. If you have to, limit your panning to the close mics as they are more forgiving. You can also flip the stereo image for instruments if you want a drastically different panning.

Lastly, it is hard to know what your complaints is precisely (and how to resolve it) without any audio examples. 
HO is a much deeper library than Ark 1. It also has a much wider dynamic range, from pp to ff, sometimes fff. The 6 horns patch in HO packs a lot more punch than the 9 horns in Ark 1, for example. 
This depth and complexity also means it has a much steeper learning curve. You shouldn't judge it - or any library really - based on noodling around with a few isolated patches. Try making a mockup of an existing piece (plenty of film score sheet music on YT) and compare the results. This will help narrow down the issue further. For instance, it is easy to mistake low dynamics for a lack of 'thickness'. We often perceive 'louder' as 'better', especially as beginners. If so, all you would need to do is balance the gain/volume of your examples to match Ark 1.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 15, 2022)

It really boils down to practicing your orchestration techniques. Once you learn how to do this, your pieces will sound more big and lush (with just about any good string library). You're not going to achieve this from playing a single patch or two.


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## topijokinen (Dec 15, 2022)

Dont have opus anymore (had cc plus) but being dry is great, since it gives you more flexibility than wet libraries. Of course its nice to have wet libraries also, but if I had only one, I’d like it to be dry.

You said, that cellos sound better in hollywood orchestrator. Do they sound also better when soloed? For the sound, the most important things are composition and arrangement / orchestration. No amout of mixing can fix bad orchestration. And good orchestration can sound great even before any mixing.

In terms of mixing, Metropolis Ark has a lot more reverb baked into it. So to make HO Opus sound similar, I think reverb is a good place to start. Try to have 2 reverbs. One with early reflections only and other with late reflections only. Preferrably in parallel (using sends) but actually I tend to use them in serial cause its more convenient for me. If you have convolution reverb, then you can limit the decay time to under 100 ms to catch only the early reflections. Mix the ER reverb in to taste and it will feel that it was recorded i a bigger room. You can also play with pre-delay time. Then mix in the LR reverb in with a longer decay time (roughly 2-3 s works for me usually) to make it feel even bigger and to have that sweet decay. 

Then of couse other things like eq, compression etc. will help, but i think that with reverb you can do the heavy lifting to make the sound closer to the ark. 

Hope, that this was useful for you! 😊


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## Mike Fox (Dec 15, 2022)

I’ve NEVER heard OPUS sound huge. No matter how good the composition or mix was, it always sounded like a basic orchestra to me, and unfortunately, you’ll never get it to sound like Ark 1, as they have different section sizes, different halls, different mics, different everything. It’s a totally different sound.

As some here have mentioned, proper orchestration and mixing will help with making your compositions sound bigger, but that has nothing to do with the out of the box sound of the library. Proper mixing and orchestration will only get you so far.

I honestly recommend either just buying Ark 1, or some other larger sounding libraries (Jaeger, Trailer Strings, etc.) to get that huge sound out of the box (some libraries are just better than others when it comes to this sort of thing).

Or!

Use reverb, as that can help make a small library sound a lot bigger. The Berlin Studio plugin is bloody awesome, and uses the same stage that Ark 1 was recorded in.

Good luck!


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## Mike Fox (Dec 15, 2022)

My other recommendation is to buy some heavy hitting percussion (Damage 2, LAMP, CinePerc etc.), as this will surely fatten things up.

To be honest, you don’t even need huge sounding strings in order to sound huge and epic, and I’d easily argue that your brass and percussion plays waaaay more of an important role than any other instrument to achieve meaty goodness.

So maybe at least pick yourself up some epic perc, then maybe some brass later down the road.


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## topijokinen (Dec 15, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> My other recommendation is to buy some heavy hitting percussion (Damage 2, LAMP, CinePerc etc.), as this will surely fatten things up.
> 
> To be honest, you don’t even need huge sounding strings in order to sound huge and epic, and I’d easily argue that your brass and percussion plays waaaay more of an important role than any other instrument to achieve meaty goodness.
> 
> So maybe at least pick yourself up some epic perc, then maybe some brass later down the road.


Tbh, I havent found brass as epic as opus, at least the 6 horn patch. It bites like nothing else. Nowadays use combination of century brass/Cine brass/JXL but still miss that one opus patch. 😊

Edit: and i forgot trailer brass and angry brass. None pf these beats opus 6 FH 😀


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## Mike Fox (Dec 15, 2022)

topijokinen said:


> Tbh, I havent found brass as epic as opus, at least the 6 horn patch. It bites like nothing else. Nowadays use combination of century brass/Cine brass/JXL but still miss that one opus patch. 😊
> 
> Edit: and i forgot trailer brass and angry brass. None pf these beats opus 6 FH 😀


It has some bite, for sure. Great for cutting through busy mixes, but It can also sound a bit too shrill and thin at times, and definitely doesn't sound "huge" or anything. I personally would much rather take the 12 horns patch from CineBrass Pro over it. Not to mention that the low end in HB/OPUS brass is REALLY weak. 

I do use the fx all the time though. Some definite gems in there.


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## José Herring (Dec 15, 2022)

Svendstar said:


> Hi, i have due to the sale been tempted to buy HO-OPUS, i have played around with it quite a lot but i still think the string samples (actually, every sample) sound small and "Dry".
> 
> Now here is the thing, i have scouted a lot on this forum, and the peoples options on HO-OPUS tend to fall into 2 categories:
> 
> ...


HOOPUS is a great library and it actually sounds pretty huge. A lot of times too huge, but.....You'll never get that boom, boom boom of a large room no matter how you try. Mostly the lack of bigness comes from not having a lot of low end. So, I often use other libraries to add low end to my HOOPUS.

But HOOPUS has a lot of midrange fullness/bigness in the strings and horns. That's where the orchestra actually gets is fullness is in the midrange traditionally. But if you do a lot of trailer music, I'll use HOOPUS for the melody and other libraries for the boom, boom.

That's what I did in this indie trailer:


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## Jackdnp121 (Dec 15, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> It has some bite, for sure. Great for cutting through busy mixes, but It can also sound a bit too shrill and thin at times, and definitely doesn't sound "huge" or anything. I personally would much rather take the 12 horns patch from CineBrass Pro over it. Not to mention that the low end in HB/OPUS brass is REALLY weak.
> 
> I do use the fx all the time though. Some definite gems in there.


Synchron brass is on sale now … that boy boy is pretty mean too 👍


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## José Herring (Dec 15, 2022)

Jackdnp121 said:


> Synchron brass is on sale now … that boy boy is pretty mean too 👍


I know right! Man, it went to the top of my list for Christmas presents to myself. And the new lyrical patches sound great! Just wish they'd slapped a little vibrato on the horns. Horns lyrical with light vibrato is divine.


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## topijokinen (Dec 15, 2022)

Just realized that you said you already own MA1. I quess opus could layer with that one quite well since the other one is wet and the other is dry. What Ive found is that to make something sound huge, you need contrast. If something sounds huge and bompastic like ma1, it probably lacks detail. If i just layer two huge libraries, everything becomes kind of mush. Other way to think about it, that wet libraries sound like they are more distant and dry libraries more close. If you add another distant library, it doesnt add much depth. But if you add library that sounds intimate and smaller, it sounds like you have a lot of players in the back and the some players in the front, making the orchestra sound more 3D and essentially bigger. I actually tend to do this with 3 libraries, one (or two) wet library in the back (and ensemble patches are great for this, since you dont need the detail cause you cant hear it anyway), one in the middle and one in the front (maybe even solo strings). 

What I would try, is to layer ma1 on the back, opus section strings in the middle and opus solo violin and cello in the front to add that final detail (i quess you dont need necessarily solo bass or viola that opus lacks since violin and cello are usually the more regognizable instruments anyway).


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## José Herring (Dec 15, 2022)

But if you really want some boom boom. JXL low brass delivers. For strings, Spitfire Low Strings from AR1 collection and SSS.
Those will really give you that:


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## Mike Fox (Dec 15, 2022)

topijokinen said:


> Just realized that you said you already own MA1. I quess opus could layer with that one quite well since the other one is wet and the other is dry. What Ive found is that to make something sound huge, you need contrast. If something sounds huge and bompastic like ma1, it probably lacks detail. If i just layer two huge libraries, everything becomes kind of mush. Other way to think about it, that wet libraries sound like they are more distant and dry libraries more close. If you add another distant library, it doesnt add much depth. But if you add library that sounds intimate and smaller, it sounds like you have a lot of players in the back and the some players in the front, making the orchestra sound more 3D and essentially bigger. I actually tend to do this with 3 libraries, one (or two) wet library in the back (and ensemble patches are great for this, since you dont need the detail cause you cant hear it anyway), one in the middle and one in the front (maybe even solo strings).
> 
> What I would try, is to layer ma1 on the back, opus section strings in the middle and opus solo violin and cello in the front to add that final detail (i quess you dont need necessarily solo bass or viola that opus lacks since violin and cello are usually the more regognizable instruments anyway).


So much this! +10000!


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## topijokinen (Dec 15, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> It has some bite, for sure. Great for cutting through busy mixes, but It can also sound a bit too shrill and thin at times, and definitely doesn't sound "huge" or anything. I personally would much rather take the 12 horns patch from CineBrass Pro over it. Not to mention that the low end in HB/OPUS brass is REALLY weak.
> 
> I do use the fx all the time though. Some definite gems in there.


I agree that opus low brass is kind of meh. And yeah, I would always layer the fh with something else that supports the low (this comes back to orchestration as well). I find cinebrass 12 horns even too full. It sounds great on its own but doesnt blend so well in a mix (at least for my mixes). I tend to layer it though sometimes with century brass french horns to add some weight to those, cause those are quite thin too, yet bity. 

But as also pointed by @José Herring , the opus needs some low end support. But if you already have ma1, then I quess youre quite good with that area (never used it so cant say for sure of course). Also you might want to use synths to provide the low end support. If you listen to epic orchestral music, theres many times synth support even if its ”purely” orchestral piece. Its just layered so that you dont notice it easily.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 15, 2022)

topijokinen said:


> I agree that opus low brass is kind of meh. And yeah, I would always layer the fh with something else that supports the low (this comes back to orchestration as well). I find cinebrass 12 horns even too full. It sounds great on its own but doesnt blend so well in a mix (at least for my mixes). I tend to layer it though sometimes with century brass french horns to add some weight to those, cause those are quite thin too, yet bity.
> 
> But as also pointed by @José Herring , the opus needs some low end support. But if you already have ma1, then I quess youre quite good with that area (never used it so cant say for sure of course). Also you might want to use synths to provide the low end support. If you listen to epic orchestral music, theres many times synth support even if its ”purely” orchestral piece. Its just layered so that you dont notice it easily.


Yeah, I usually use the Trailer Mix as it is a lot more focus and defined than the Dennis Sands mix. It helps a lot with that “fullness”.


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