# Logic 8's new look???



## Marsdy (May 21, 2007)

http://www.btinternet.com/~marsdy/Picture2b.png


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 21, 2007)

What?! You mean Apple is killing Logic and incorporating its features into Soundtrack 2?!

That's outrageous! How dare they!

And why do I need surround?!

I knew it! When Apple bought Emagic they were just going to kill the product!

This is so typical! These developers have no idea what we want!


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 21, 2007)

When's the group buy?


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## bryla (May 21, 2007)

i like the look


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## sbkp (May 21, 2007)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon May 21 said:


> When's the group buy?



It was last week.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 21, 2007)

While I'm excited by the surround plug-ins, I find the gray on gray look to be b-o-r-i-n-g. What's wrong with a little colour? I think in a way that it's such a cop out to go with grey. It seems to me like one of those colours you reach for when you can't agree on anything else, or when you're scared of what others may think/say. Plus, I can't shake the feeling that on rainy, grey November days, I'm going to get real depressed looking at my plug-ins. :(


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## re-peat (May 21, 2007)

I like the grey. Very much so. It doesn't distract and, over time, it's paradoxically much LESS boring than any colour-combination they might come up with. 

The first thing I did after installing Logic 7, was to disable all the new fancy 32-bit icons and revert back to the 'generic' bitmap icons of earlier versions. I also have my Arrange background set to dark-ish grey, the same colour which I also use for the Finder. (If you'd see my Autoload Arrange Window, you'd think I was still working in Logic 4.) I really like a spartan interface, with as little frills and flashy colour as possible. There's enough of that already in most third-party plugins anyway.

Very pleased with that SoundtrackPro screenshot!

_


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## Jack Weaver (May 21, 2007)

Hey Ned,

If it still depresses you next November feel free to come down and visit us in Tucson!
It'll just be another sunny day. 

Oh yeah, and I hope there _is _a new Logic before then.


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## midphase (May 21, 2007)

How is STP 2? Does it seem like they finally added the basic functionality that would allow it to at least try and compete with PT?


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## Marsdy (May 22, 2007)

Kays
It's no Pro Tools killer but much improved. However, it now seems even more geared towards audio post, i.e. inputting the timeline from Final Cut Pro, doing the sound then sending it back to FCP.

Cross-fading between regions in STP2 makes Logic seem quite primitive. Hopefully this is another clue as to what Logic 8 will be like.

It does have that undo history in the waveform editor though which is amazing for sound design and the reason I use it. You can have a chain of say 20 actions, go back and re-do the fifth thing you did and all the subsequent actions re-do.

It does seem grey is the new blue. I like the look myself, those old blue plug-ins look terribly dated now. Apple have said they are moving to unify the look and feel of their pro apps and there was already a move towards this with Logic 7. I wonder if Logic will get the plug-in preset management like in the top right of the pic above.


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## John DeBorde (May 22, 2007)

Marsdy,

Does STP 2 allow you to output thru an audio device (say a motu card) w/o sending the entire computer's audio thru that device?

That was my biggest complaint with the original STP. At least I was never able to figure out how to do that. How can they call it a "Pro" app if you can't even define an interface to set the apps audio out differently from the computers? Personally, I don't like my alerts blaring thru my monitors.

thanks,

john


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## midphase (May 22, 2007)

That was your biggest complaint?

I have a whole slew from no OMF import to automation which doesn't move with the region to no option to set a quicktime start time offset from the sequence start and of course the occasional clicks and pops on exported audio.

I can't wait to test out the new STP and see how well Apple has addressed these and the other issues. I think that the market is very ready to an audio editor which is well integrated with FCP.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 22, 2007)

STP has no MIDI, remember.


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## Marsdy (May 22, 2007)

John DeBorde @ Tue 22 May said:


> Marsdy,
> 
> Does STP 2 allow you to output thru an audio device (say a motu card) w/o sending the entire computer's audio thru that device?
> 
> ...



Not good news I'm afraid, you still set your audio hardware prefs in Audio MIDI setup or the System preferences. There's no separate setting for STP.

The same Apogee hardware control panel as found in Logic is included though.

@Nick
Being pedantic there is MIDI support as in STP will sync to MIDI clock and MTC, plus there's support for the likes of a Logic Control via MIDI.

Some of the new stuff in STP2 is quite cool. I hope something like the multiple take editor makes it into Logic 8. Also the Lift and Stamp tools that have been borrowed from Apeture.

Also the Frequency Selection tool is very cool. You can select say some sibilance and turn it down in Frequency Spectrum waveform view.


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## John DeBorde (May 22, 2007)

[quote:2b4868ce88="midphase @ Tue May 22, 2007 10:40 am"]That was your biggest complaint?

I have a whole slew from no OMF import to automation which doesn't move with the region to no option to set a quicktime start time offset fròÏ•   Y:ìÏ•   Y:íÏ•   Y:îÏ•   Y:ïÏ•   Y:ðÏ•   Y:ñÏ•   Y:òÏ•   Y:óÏ•   Y:ôÏ•   Y:õÏ•   Y:öÏ•   Y:÷Ï•   Y:øÏ•   Y:ùÏ•   Y:úÏ•   Y:ûÏ•   Y:üÏ•   Y:ýÏ•   Y:þÏ•   Y:ÿÏ•   Y; Ï•   Y;Ï•   Y;Ï•   Y;Ï•   Y;Ï•   Y;Ï•   Y;Ï•   Y;Ï•   Y;Ï•   Y;	Ï•   Y;
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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 24, 2007)

You can see all the plug-ins with the new GUI in this reference guide:

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Soundtrack_Pro_Effects_Reference.pdf (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Soundt ... erence.pdf)


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## midphase (May 25, 2007)

Marsdy,

Could you tell me if the new STP allows you to have a Quicktime movie start time different than your sequence start time? So that my sequence start would be 00:59:50:00 but my video file wouldn't start until 1:00:00:00? I find this to be the most basic feature that any DAW should be able to do, but the old STP could not do it afaik.


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## Marsdy (May 25, 2007)

It doesn't appear possible in STP2 either. You can set an offset for incoming MTC or MIDI timecode but that's as far as it goes.

Unless I've missed something, audio and video time are stuck together.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 25, 2007)

"It's no Pro Tools killer"

There have been lots of "Pro Tools killers" on the market for years.


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## midphase (May 25, 2007)

Well....Pro Tools is not a particularly complex program. It's actually pretty simple, and aside from some added MIDI functionality, it really hasn't changed a whole lot since version 1.

This makes it even more puzzling to understand why nobody has posed a serious challenge to it so far....perhaps is because they overthink it and create apps which have every function in the book but feel intimidating to PT users?

As far as being able to offset the Quicktime start time....I'm scratching my head trying to figur out what in the world is preventing Apple from implementing this simple, yet necessary function. Both Logic Express and Pro can do it, PT LE and up can do it, DP can do it, I assume that Cuebase and Nuendo can do it....yet for some reason Soundtrack Pro can't....really odd.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 25, 2007)

I think there are several reasons for that, Kays. The first one is that lots of programs *have* posed serious challenges to it. Another one is that it's a tribute to the PT interface that you would say that it's pretty simple; it's actually changed considerably since version 1, but they got the interface right at the beginning. Yet another is that Pro Tools became engrained at a time when nothing else could do what it does. And the original partnership of Peter Gotcher and Evyn [mind gone blank, can't think of last name] was pretty formidable. Evyn is a great programmer and Peter Gotcher is a very charismatic, engaging guy, and he was able to sell people on investing in his products by the force of his personality - and in those days you really were investing in a product in progress when you bought a DAW.

As a Pro Tools user for almost 15 years, I can tell you that the theory about other programs being intimidating to PT users is very, very unlikely. It's just a terrific audio editor. I use other programs too, of course, but I'd hate to give up Pro Tools as a production program.


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## midphase (May 25, 2007)

Nick,

It would appear as you and I have been using Pro Tools for about the same time (the original PT I used Serial # was in the double digits).

Nonetheless, Apple was able to relatively swiftly take away the crown of Avid which many said was not possible (both Media 100 and Premiere failed).

My biggest gripe with PT is A. that I can't pick and choose my own hardware, and B. that everything is very much a-la-carte and hence very pricey.

STP has all of the right ingredients to pose a serious threat, but apparently still lacks some very basic stuff that most people take for granted on all but the most basic audio app.

A bit of a bummer really, since I would love to dump my Digi interface for one by RME or Apogee which according to several reports are better bangs for the buck.


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## Mike Greene (May 25, 2007)

midphase @ Fri May 25 said:


> A bit of a bummer really, since I would love to dump my Digi interface for one by RME or Apogee which according to several reports are better bangs for the buck.


The Apogee interface with Symphony card is still pretty pricey. Less than a Digi HD setup, but not a huge difference.

The only company that can kill ProTools is Digidesign.

For commercial recording studios (both music and post,) suppose they dump ProTools for some other setup and save a few thousand dollars. There's a huge downside that will go with that:

Most importantly, they're no longer compatable with almost every other commercial studio in town. (Sure, there are OMFs and other workarounds, but all the TDM compressor, EQ, and reverb plugs aren't going to load up on an Apogee Symphony setup.) Even one potential client who calls and asks if their studio is a ProTools room will wipe out whatever money the studio saved by not buying ProTools.

So the big studios can't even think about dumping PT. Which means the medium studios can't either, since they want to stay compatable with big boys. And so on.

To say nothing of the power that TDM brings to the table by taking so much processing off the Apple core processors.

Final Cut could hurt Avid because video editing is such a different situation. With video, there's off-line, all done by one guy, and then on-line. That's it. So there aren't all these compatablity issues.

And if the offline guy buys FCP instead of Avid, he doesn't just save $4,000 or $5,000 . . . he saves $100,000! That's something the on-line houses are forced to deal with. But ProTools hardware isn't expensive enough to experience the STP - Avid shakeup. You can buy Digi HD2 Accel cards and 192 interface for around $10,000. Not chump change, but affordable for any studio wanting to compete.

ProTools has already become too much of a standard to be killed from the outside. In fact, thousands of people buy ProTools LE systems mostly so they can be part of that standard. It sure isn't because RTAS is such a superior format! :mrgreen:


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## Marsdy (May 26, 2007)

I don't think STP2 is intended to be an alternative to PT. It's not marketed as such and it's feature set is now even more dedicated to more detailed audio editing of what you're doing in FCP.

For that it's perfectly functional and much improved but you're not going to track band with it!

It does have two killer features as an audio editor though, namely the action history or whatever they call it and the frequency selection tool.


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## Kecinzer (May 27, 2007)

As long as they don't call it "* iLogic *". 

NAVY-blue is good for long term staring - Anyhow, in the autumn, on those long misty days when shit gets ugly, you can still paint your regions like a rainbow and smoke something while doing it! It works in New England. :wink:


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 29, 2007)

"the action history or whatever they call it"

Is that not just multiple undo in sheep's clothing?


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## tobyond (May 29, 2007)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue May 29 said:


> "the action history or whatever they call it"
> 
> Is that not just multiple undo in sheep's clothing?



No, it gives you the opportunity to remove particular actions and retain those you've done since. For instance, say you normalized, removed some clicks and increased the volume of a small section, you could just uncheck the normalize and the other actions would remain intact.


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## Marsdy (May 30, 2007)

Exactly. You could go back 10 actions edit a plug-in setting and all subsequent actions automatically re-do. In Logic's undo history, subsequent actions just get deleted as you know.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 30, 2007)

Actually, I didn't know that - I've never wanted to go back ten actions. But I might want to if I knew I could.

The only time I've used multiple undos is to reverse a succession of things I don't like that are all related to the same thing, e.g. transpose something in 12 successive steps, etc.

Well, I vaguely remember going back a number of steps and copying something I'd deleted. But really, that's all. I promise!


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## Marsdy (Jun 29, 2007)

This appeared in an update to STP2 posted yesterday.

http://www.btinternet.com/~marsdy/Picture1.png


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## midphase (Jun 29, 2007)

Looks nice...what does it do?


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## Marsdy (Jun 29, 2007)

It's delay where you can adjust the time, level, pan, cutoff freq, res and pitch of each repeat independently.

It seems good for Eventide type effects and 99.99999% certain to be in Logic 8!!!!


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## midphase (Jun 29, 2007)

I don't suppose you could post a small mp3 of this puppy in action?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 29, 2007)

Kind of reminds me of Spectral Delay...

http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=spektraldelay_us (http://www.native-instruments.com/index ... aldelay_us)


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## Marsdy (Jun 29, 2007)

Well STP2 is now buggy as hell with clicks all over the place. I hope LP8 is better than this. It's just taken me 6 goes and half an hour just to bounce this. Each bounce takes 4 mins and the ****** keeps crashing.

Anyways, here's a simple beep with Space Designer and then the beep four more times with a different instances of Delay Designer.

http://www.btinternet.com/~marsdy/Submix_1.wav


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 29, 2007)

Eventide... cool!


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## Marsdy (Jun 29, 2007)

Actually what really sounds like Eventide, at least vintage Eventide are these:

http://www.soundtoys.com/products/SoundToysNative/

And VERY nice they are too!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 29, 2007)

To expand, the one I miss the most is their pitch shifter. It's great for creating artificial feedback that you can mix in on static notes; I've used it to fix more than one boring guitar solo.

But just their presets are incredible. The native plug-ins have most of that, but those two TDM ones are really amazing for when you want a unique effect to spice something up.

Oh, and the other thing about their pitch shifter is that it does formant shifting. It has this one funny trick that lets you randomize the pitch, so you can add inflections to a monotone speaker.

PurePitch

http://www.soundtoys.com/products/PurePitch/


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## synthetic (Jun 29, 2007)

For Eventide 901 effects on a budget, this one is pretty sweet:

http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/product.php?pid=AD011 (http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/prod ... ?pid=AD011)

Also check out their Lexicon 300 reverb if you're into vintage effects. Heck, all of their plug-ins are cheap and amazing.


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## José Herring (Jun 29, 2007)

synthetic @ Fri Jun 29 said:


> For Eventide 901 effects on a budget, this one is pretty sweet:
> 
> http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/product.php?pid=AD011 (http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/prod ... ?pid=AD011)
> 
> Also check out their Lexicon 300 reverb if you're into vintage effects. Heck, all of their plug-ins are cheap and amazing.



Where? Lexicon 300 happens to be one of my favs. Is it a plug on the site?

Jose


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## synthetic (Jun 29, 2007)

This might look familiar, then. 

http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/product.php?pid=AD012 (http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/prod ... ?pid=AD012)

$39, how can you go wrong.


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## synthetic (Jul 3, 2007)

Whoopsiedaisies, I meant Lexicon 200.


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