# Adler's Art of Orchestration



## Digivolt (Sep 18, 2020)

Today I finally got around to ordering this book that I've read is the gold standard for reading material on Orchestration techniques, most expensive book I've ever bought, but likely worth it for the knowledge it will provide, are there any other books for a newbie starting out that you all could recommend to compliment this. I'm still learning music theory so any good books related to that might be more useful for me to compliment Art of Orchestration, maybe some counterpoint or melody materials ?


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## Joe_D (Sep 18, 2020)

Hopefully, the Adler book will come with some sort of subscription service letting you hear the audio for the examples. That's very important to do--really listen carefully and hear the difference that the orchestration choices make!

The audio examples used to come on CD, but I think it's a streaming or downloading thing now. if for some reason you don't get access to those audio materials, maybe buy the CD's (there might be used or new ones available from Ebay, Amazon, etc.).

Sam is a very knowledgeable orchestrator (and musician in general), and the book will give you lots of opportunities to learn. You'll have to pay very careful attention, start to listen to orchestration critically, follow scores, etc, to get the most out of it.


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## JohnG (Sep 18, 2020)

Digivolt said:


> Today I finally got around to ordering this book that I've read is the gold standard for reading material on Orchestration techniques, most expensive book I've ever bought, but likely worth it for the knowledge it will provide, are there any other books for a newbie starting out that you all could recommend to compliment this. I'm still learning music theory so any good books related to that might be more useful for me to compliment Art of Orchestration, maybe some counterpoint or melody materials ?



The Adler book is my favourite for orchestration. It is focused on the orchestra, nothing pop or contemporary.

Beyond Adler, honestly, it's better to get some scores and read through a few bars at a time. Maybe copy out four bars here, four there if there is a passage you particularly like. Ravel, Debussy, R. Strauss are some good ones from whom to learn "old school."

There are also scores of movies from Omni Publishing -- Silvestri, Elfman, etc.

And John Williams has scores out. They are worth their weight in gold for learning to orchestrate.

I find most of the theory books drag you through Bach, and I IV V ii V I too much. Counterpoint, though I kind of enjoyed studying it, is equally low in the gain-to-pain topics, though I'm sure someone will post that I'm wrong and it's indispensable. Those are all fine if you admire the baroque and Classical periods but if you want to compose I'd go to songs and score.

Speaking of songs, if you want to write for today I think you can learn as much from John Mayer or even The Beatles about what people actually want to hear.


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## Altauria (Sep 18, 2020)

If you need a quick intro, and probably the best starter, go to Rimsky-Korsakov's Principles of Orchestration. It's very inexpensive (10USD on Amazon), and while certainly 'of its time,' it still holds great value. RK was an absolute master of economy in his writing.


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## JohnG (Sep 18, 2020)

RK was great -- really great as a composer. However, as an instructor, I find him over-cautious. Players today can play stuff he would warn you off.

Still- definitely a bargain. Free online.


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## Altauria (Sep 18, 2020)

I totally agree, and actually think his cautiousness is precisely where the value is. Historical context is definitely important.


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## Digivolt (Sep 19, 2020)

Gene Pool said:


> Digivolt,
> 
> I would like to give you a thoughtful answer. If you can provide a little bit more information...
> 
> ...



I'm currently almost a year into learning Piano

Goals, I just want to be able to write some nice trailer, epic, film scores

Scoring for samples right now

I'm as serious as my mind allows, I tend to go through phases but have strong work ethic when I'm in the correct phase

Thanks for the replies


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## JohnG (Sep 19, 2020)

Altauria said:


> I totally agree, and actually think his cautiousness is precisely where the value is. Historical context is definitely important.



Interesting -- I had absorbed his book in college and it was in my head for my first years as a composer.

When I compare, however, what he recommends in his book to what, say, Alan Silvestri asks of the musicians in "Back to the Future" (a score at Omni that I strongly recommend), it's almost astonishing the gap. I doubt that, if Maestro K had had him in class, he would have passed Mr. Silvestri !


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## Kent (Sep 19, 2020)

+1 for the Brant.


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## Gene Pool (Sep 19, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Interesting -- I had absorbed his book in college and it was in my head for my first years as a composer.
> 
> When I compare, however, what he recommends in his book to what, say, Alan Silvestri asks of the musicians in "Back to the Future" (a score at Omni that I strongly recommend), it's almost astonishing the gap. I doubt that, if Maestro K had had him in class, he would have passed Mr. Silvestri !



The R-K book is almost completely an orchestration book, not an instrumentation book. In fact, it is roughly 60% his real world score excerpts. He doesn't cover hardly anything in the way of instrumentation except a few range tables, and no one buys it for the ranges. Even that aside, an introductory textbook on any subject is not supposed to exhaust all the possibilities of that subject because of the important concept of walking before running. For example, telling a beginner that the oboe solo near the beginning of _Daphnes et Chloe_ is okay because Ravel got by with it would be counterproductive. But again, the book is about orchestration: orchestral devices, balance, blend, contrast, texture, etc., not instrumentation.

As an orchestration instructor he taught Stravinsky (and hundreds of students at the Moscow Conservatory), and even some of Stravinsky's early instrumentation is beyond anything you're going to find on a scoring stage. As an orchestrator, R-K is on the All-Star team with Ravel, Strauss, et al., and his wisdom on the subject should be learned by anyone studying orchestration. As a composer, there are parts of his _Cappricio Espagnol_ that one would be ill-advised to put in front of a one-and-done scoring stage setting. Just like Strauss and Ravel, he wrote to the edge of what one can do instrumentation-wise, then and now.

Every composer wanting to learn about orchestration should have the R-K book.

I really don't understand telling someone who's inquiring about composing for orchestra to avoid Rimsky-Korsakov and study John Mayer and The Beatles instead.


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## JohnG (Sep 20, 2020)

kmaster said:


> +1 for the Brant.



curious -- who's Brant?


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## Digivolt (Sep 20, 2020)

JohnG said:


> curious -- who's Brant?



Textures and Timbres, by Henry Brant was what was mentioned, looks like it doesn't exist in the UK though and it's more expensive than the Adler book to import it


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## Kent (Sep 20, 2020)

Henry Brant - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Brilliant, genius composer.


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## JohnG (Sep 20, 2020)

thanks

Judging by what I could listen to in a short time, he was a brave artist. While not abandoning the traditional orchestra, he combined ensembles and violated expectations to an extent that I would have thought might cause quite an uproar. No doubt audiences were affronted.

Listening to "Meteor Farm" right now. Quite a combination -- West African drums and voices, orchestra, traditional Western choir. The orchestra floats behind the West African group, then in the second part, we get a kind of crazy drunken big band that sort of disintegrates into some kind of change chirping with a sound-design type orchestral background. Quite amazing. It's on Spotify if you are interested: 

That's why v.i. control is so fun -- never heard of him before despite my college music professors' attempts to expose everyone to the _avant garde_.


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## Kent (Sep 20, 2020)

JohnG said:


> thanks
> 
> Judging by what I could listen to in a short time, he was a brave artist. While not abandoning the traditional orchestra, he combined ensembles and violated expectations to an extent that I would have thought might cause quite an uproar. No doubt audiences were affronted.
> 
> ...



Honestly, compared to the Brant, Adler's book is an instrumentation guide. _Textures and Timbres_ is truly an _orchestration_ book.


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## JohnG (Sep 20, 2020)

kmaster said:


> Honestly, compared to the Brant, Adler's book is an instrumentation guide. _Textures and Timbres_ is truly an _orchestration_ book.



I have seen others write the same thing, but I disagree. Adler is addressing a pretty wide range and I think covers both pretty well. Chord voicings, spreading the orchestra out -- those certainly qualify as orchestration advice in my view.

But I think if anyone wants to learn how it's done, books on the subject are always going to be a beginning, not an end. You have to go to the scores of the greats.


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## bryla (Sep 20, 2020)

@JohnG with all due respect since you didn’t know Brant I take it you haven’t read his books and if you haven’t read his book I can understand that you don’t appreciate the truth in @kmaster s statement. It is truly unbelievable the difference between the books that set one miles apart from the other.


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## Rick McGuire (Sep 20, 2020)

Adler is a great book. Encyclopedic list of scores to study. Never got much out of the workbook. Also would be nice if they didn’t charge you to continue listening to the audio examples. Maybe that’s a norton thing


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## nolotrippen (Sep 20, 2020)




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## Kent (Sep 20, 2020)

bryla said:


> @JohnG with all due respect since you didn’t know Brant I take it you haven’t read his books and if you haven’t read his book I can understand that you don’t appreciate the truth in @kmaster s statement. It is truly unbelievable the difference between the books that set one miles apart from the other.


As an example:


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## AllanH (Sep 20, 2020)

Last week, I though it was time to read Rimsky-Korsakov's Principles of Orchestration again. I was really surprised how good it is and how many details it contains. Somehow, I'm getting far more out of it this time, than at prior readings.

Adler is by far the most complete book on Orchestration I've gone through. However, it's both complex and detailed and doesn't really read well as a "front to back" book. There is simply so much content and examples to listen to, that I tend to read a chapter or instrument as I work on particular problem. Maybe it's a good textbook with a good professor or in more skilled hands.

I've also learned a fair bit from reading along with Brahms and Tchaikovsky as I listen.


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## robcs (Sep 20, 2020)

Funnily enough I’m just waiting for my copy of T&T to come in the mail. Picked one up last week used on Amazon. I’m looking forward to diving into it, though I’m not sure when - it’s been a ridiculously busy few weeks


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## Maximvs (Sep 21, 2020)

JohnG said:


> curious -- who's Brant?


Henry Brant was Alex North orchestrator and a masterful one


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## JohnG (Sep 21, 2020)

kmaster said:


> As an example:


I ordered the book yesterday!


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## Kent (Sep 21, 2020)

JohnG said:


> I ordered the book yesterday!


Look forward to your review!


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## Digivolt (Sep 21, 2020)

kmaster said:


> Look forward to your review!





JohnG said:


> I ordered the book yesterday!



Yes please, do let us know how you find the book!


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## JohnG (Sep 21, 2020)

Digivolt said:


> Yes please, do let us know how you find the book!



..on Amazon...[feeble, I know]


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## PaulieDC (Sep 21, 2020)

Digivolt said:


> *I'm still learning music theory so any good books related to that might be more useful *for me to compliment Art of Orchestration, maybe some counterpoint or melody materials ?


Here's some real basic foundational resources in regards to your question. Methinks this thread went from your original inquiry to Chopin-level discussion real quick! 


Shore up music theory basics with Guy Michelmore's video.
To me, Alan Belkin's Musical Composition is a great precursor to Principles of Orchestration but that could just be the weird way I learn. Download the Kindle sample and test drive it.
Contemporary Counterpoint (Berklee Press), Good primer, only 175 pages
My personal favorite, https://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-MIDI-Orchestration-Contemporary-Composer-dp-113880150X/dp/113880150X (click and see).
I think just read Adler's book like a book. I kept hearing it's a good reference, but I started READING it and everything builds on the previous. If you want to know what you don't know, here's the resource. 
I get it, not everyone would agree this is the most intuitive list, especially seasoned pros. Probably more like sophomore year, first semester. Peruse the table of contents on these titles and see if they... um... er... strike a chord with you.


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## JohnG (Sep 21, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> not everyone would agree this is the most intuitive list



Looks pretty good to me. Certainly I'm a fan of Guy M and of short books. (except Adler, which I definitely endorse, but is not short)

No matter how long you've been scrambling notes onto pages, players still teach you every time you put music in front of them.


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## Dave Connor (Sep 21, 2020)

Digivolt said:


> Today I finally got around to ordering this book that I've read is the gold standard for reading material on Orchestration techniques, most expensive book I've ever bought, but likely worth it for the knowledge it will provide, are there any other books for a newbie starting out that you all could recommend to compliment this. I'm still learning music theory so any good books related to that might be more useful for me to compliment Art of Orchestration, maybe some counterpoint or melody materials ?


The reason you get recommendations of every kind is there is something good in most books of reputation. If you are new to things, that can help narrow the choices down. The Adler book is very good and a safe bet. You won't find in it what's in Kent Kennan's orchestration book which I can't recommend enough for those starting out: The re-orchestration of the same passage of music (Bach Chorale) by different size traditional groups (Strings Winds, Brass) and combinations of all three.

I suppose that approach assists the brain since it already knows the material and recognizes the individual parts even in transposing instruments. So you are learning more than just orchestration by necessity without actually cluttering your focus, which in a sense, is always on the familiar.

This is why most of us have numerous music books. Most have a unique value in content, approach and the like. If you pinned me down to two books i would say Kennan, Adler in that order. Kennan is compact and easy to navigate with a wealth of practical material while Adler is a Bible of sorts that seems to answer most questions. Both have audio examples as well.


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## Rory (Sep 21, 2020)

If you order the Brant book from the publisher, Carl Fischer, it's also available in digital form, although only on the Newzik platform for iOS. Paper and digital price are the same: US$45.


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## Digivolt (Sep 22, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> Here's some real basic foundational resources in regards to your question. Methinks this thread went from your original inquiry to Chopin-level discussion real quick!
> 
> 
> Shore up music theory basics with Guy Michelmore's video.
> ...



Thanks for a great list, I've added all the books mentioned to my wishlist, that midi one looks particularly useful!! Adler gets delivered today so I'll see how I get on with it for now before I go buying any more


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## JohnG (Sep 23, 2020)

So far I've read this much:


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## robcs (Sep 23, 2020)

My copy of Brant arrived on Monday and I’ve been devouring it. God I I wish I had this book years ago. Every page has me slapping my forehead and thinking ‘I never thought of it like that. that makes so much sense!’


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## JohnG (Sep 23, 2020)

robcs said:


> My copy of Brant arrived on Monday and I’ve been devouring it. God I I wish I had this book years ago. Every page has me slapping my forehead and thinks ‘I never thought of it like that. that makes so much sense!’



s'pose I'll have to open it now.


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## Kent (Sep 24, 2020)

JohnG said:


> s'pose I'll have to open it now.


and?


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## JohnG (Sep 24, 2020)

I'm reviewing mixes all day so far. Maybe next week.


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## JohnG (Oct 1, 2020)

bryla said:


> @JohnG with all due respect since you didn’t know Brant I take it you haven’t read his books and if you haven’t read his book I can understand that you don’t appreciate the truth in @kmaster s statement. It is truly unbelievable the difference between the books that set one miles apart from the other.



*Adler*

Now that I'm reading the Brant through, I can see why you'd view it that way, @bryla but I don't really agree that Adler doesn't cover orchestration -- percentage-wise there is a lot on instrumentation, no doubt; nevertheless, Adler covers plenty of very practical orchestration as well, both by section and otherwise.

Moreover, for a beginner, Adler's numerous audio examples are a crucial advantage. I assume you'd agree that one absolutely must have audio if one is beginning, or trying to extend from limited university classes.

*Brant*

I view Brant as useful and stimulating for someone who's had a fair amount of experience. Having been at this for some time, it is fun to encounter his ideas and think about them, even though -- tbh -- some of his categories are pretty obvious. That said, plenty is _not_ obvious, and offers a chance to shake up one's thinking; that is always welcome and valuable. Inevitably, one develops habits and forgets things once familiar over time and it's invigourating and stimulating to read Brant's approach.

For the novice, however, I think the book could be rough going. For one thing, I can't find any audio of the examples, which means you have to have some pretty good idea of how the instruments sound -- in the registers of the examples presented -- to imbibe what Brant is talking about.

If there were audio available that would substantially upgrade my view of the book's usefulness.

I agree with this writer's assessment (from Orchestration Online) who writes that it's best "after you've done quite a bit of other foundational reading.":

On Henry Brant: Textures and Timbers: an Orchestrator's Handbook "A life’s work in codifying the principles of orchestral texture. In some ways, it’s a very narrow view into one specific element of orchestration, and it also is a somewhat personal set of guidelines for Brant’s own profound compositions. And yet it’s a good source book for composers playing with ideas, and wanting to understand timbral relationships. Highly recommended, after you’ve done quite a bit of other foundational reading." from https://orchestrationonline.com/books/textures-timbres-henry-brant/

By the way, this Orchestrationonline-dot-com site looks intriguing -- it's operated by Thomas Goss, who writes that he's a "professional composer and orchestrator," and his "current role as Education Composer-in-resiedence" in Wellington, NZ.

*Other Books*

IDK this guy so I can't exactly endorse him; nevertheless he's an educator and appears knowledgeable and balanced. Here's his take on various orchestration blogs and resources. (on a separate page he talks about Piston and Adler (https://orchestrationonline.com/resources/books/ ):






Orchestration Blogs - Orchestration Online


There are many great blogs about music on the internet. For the purposes of this website, I’ve restricted my selection to those that specifically address orchestration, or touch on it often. All of these bloggers give dependable perspectives and accurate information on the craft of...




orchestrationonline.com


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