# Falling Back in Love with EW Hollywood Orchestra... [w/ LOTR Mockup]



## prodigalson (Jun 13, 2020)

Ive had a long love/hate relationship with EWHO. When I first invested in the series back in 2013/2014 I was pretty frustrated with the experience. On my iMac with Play 4/5 the load times were astronomical and my rig would be brought to its knees trying to play back even a handful of legato patches. On top of that with Logic I've just had too many issues with the audio not bouncing correctly etc etc. It just wasnt worth it so its gathered dust on my drives and I continued to build my template around SFA and OT.

Now in the downtime of COVID-19 I've built a number of templates - and with Play 6 effectively eliminating the load time issue - I decided to build a purely EWHO template on my PC slave I built a few years back. It was also an opportunity to finally explore and really learn Cubase Pro after so many years on Logic.

*My GOD these libraries sound incredible.* Here is a mockup of the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring I did to test drive the template and holy crap, I'm just floored at how sonically it is so close to the OST.

There needs some more MIDI massaging but for that classic symphonic Hollywood sound there is simply nothing better, and I have (almost) them all. This is entirely EWHO except the choirs which is a combo of Eric Whitacre and OT Met Ark1.

Over 10 years old and still some of the best samples ever recorded. I'm very excited for the new EWHO Opus and look forward to building my new template around EWHO.


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## Symfoniq (Jun 13, 2020)

Sounds pretty incredible.

I agree that the Hollywood Orchestra is crying out to be repackaged in a more user-friendly manner. The only reason I canceled Composer Cloud was because I simply found HO too fiddly to work with compared to newer libraries.

But it still sounds great.


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## prodigalson (Jun 13, 2020)

Symfoniq said:


> Sounds pretty incredible.
> 
> I agree that the Hollywood Orchestra is crying out to be repackaged in a more user-friendly manner. The only reason I canceled Composer Cloud was because I simply found HO too fiddly to work with compared to newer libraries.
> 
> But it still sounds great.



Agreed, thats also why I never dived deep enough into it, just overwhelmed by the possibilities/options. I do think though that that issue is somewhat overblown on here. There are a lot of patches and the naming can feel esoteric but in reality you only really need a handful of patches per instrument to build a template that would be similar to what SFA or OT offers you. All the Upbows/Downbows, Stacc Slurs, Finger Position etc etc just don't feel necessary at the end of the day and I think the bloat just turned people off. In truth, it has everything youd need in a few patches


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## CT (Jun 13, 2020)

Definitely sounds good. I really hope these libraries get the major workflow overhaul they deserve as part of the upcoming update. That would pretty much convince me to invest in them.

Only thing I'd comment on, which has nothing to do with the sound, is that it sounds like you're playing 16th triplets at a few points in the melody, when they should be straight 16ths.


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## novaburst (Jun 13, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> Over 10 years old and still some of the best samples ever recorded.



+1000


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## YaniDee (Jun 13, 2020)

Stradivarius...350 yrs old, and still sounds good!


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## nolotrippen (Jun 13, 2020)

YaniDee said:


> Stradivarius...350 yrs old, and still sounds good!


That's because the bow is made by N.


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## JohnG (Jun 13, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> Over 10 years old and still some of the best samples ever recorded.



Yes indeed; you did a nice job on the mockup!


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## prodigalson (Jun 13, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Yes indeed; you did a nice job on the mockup!



thanks, it really only took a couple hours. Once I had my template set these were really some of the easiest samples to work with I’ve used, all the major developers included


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## Ashermusic (Jun 14, 2020)

Still my primary orchestra.


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## MA-Simon (Jun 14, 2020)

Very nice mockup!

I do have all the Gold versions, somewhere. Hopefully it is possible to remap modwheel input from CC2 in the Opus update. Which I will try 100%. The consord Strings emulation is fantastic. Otherwise I just can not use them myself. The sound is stellar though! It is just a workflow problem. I load stuff on the go and fiddling with midi channel plugins everytime is just such an inspiration killer for me. I always end up just loading a similar Kontakt patch. I am not bothered by different samplers at all, it is just that I need those dynamics to work right away.

Thinking of it, that is probably because I am a piano "player" at the core. So I do less mocking up, but more playing lines in directly. I think of myself more of a musician then a composer. So fiddling with cc is a no-go for me.


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## SlHarder (Jun 14, 2020)

Could you share a list of patches that made it into your template? I can guess some but I'm always trying to fine tune my list.


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## prodigalson (Jun 14, 2020)

SlHarder said:


> Could you share a list of patches that made it into your template? I can guess some but I'm always trying to fine tune my list.



Generally speaking, I was pretty conservative. For the woodwinds and brass I simply had a Legato patch, the Keyswitch Patch and the runs/FX patch. then simply using Expression Maps for the KS and Runs. For HOW and HB, this is mostly all I need and effectively makes it the same as any other developer workflow-wise and matches my other templates. So this is what my Bassoon setup looks like as an example






For Strings, there are more patches and less uniformity because HS only has Longs KS patches and some sections have more articulations than others. But generally I chose the powerful system BC+Slur+Port patches for my legatos ("Powerful System" is relatively meaningless now), the Longs KS patch, The Marc SUS patch, the MOD SHORTS patch, Spiccato, Slur Runs, and prerecorded runs. For my purposes I thnk thats the leanest I also included the Measured Trem and Repetitions patches but I'm not convinced they'll actually stay in my template. Here's what my V1s look like:






For what it's worth, I did this mockup on Cubase Pro 10.5 on a MacBook Pro with the samples hosted on my PC (i7, 64GB RAM) via VEPro 7 and my machine never skipped a beat. Also the full template takes up a little under 32GB of RAM according to task manager.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 14, 2020)

Still my primary orchestra.


prodigalson said:


> Generally speaking, I was pretty conservative. For the woodwinds and brass I simply had a Legato patch, the Keyswitch Patch and the runs/FX patch. then simply using Expression Maps for the KS and Runs. For HOW and HB, this is mostly all I need and effectively makes it the same as any other developer workflow-wise and matches my other templates. So this is what my Bassoon setup looks like as an example
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Interesting I have never had much luck with the bow change patches, but you used them well.


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## method1 (Jun 14, 2020)

Thanks for this post, it actually pushed me to jump on the EW train yesterday, I always really enjoy the sound of the Hollywood orchestra in demos but this is my first time using it. I was also a bit retiscent to learn yet another player but PLAY seems pretty straight forward so far.
At the current pricing I actually don't think there's a better value all-in-one offering on the market right now!

However, from the patch side, I can see how this could be a turn off for some people, so many patches with fairly arcane naming conventions, it's going to take a while to wade through all this, so I appreciate the insight into your patch use. At least the manual is pretty thorough.

I'm sure this has been asked a zillion times, but is the diamond upgrade worth it for the extra mic positions? Considering the current sale price I might just grab the update anyway.


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## RonOrchComp (Jun 14, 2020)

This is great!

Don't really hear the tymp at the end, nor the bass drum as the climax starts. Otherwise, very excellent!

Did you do this by ear?


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## prodigalson (Jun 14, 2020)

RonOrchComp said:


> This is great!
> 
> Don't really hear the tymp at the end, nor the bass drum as the climax starts. Otherwise, very excellent!
> 
> Did you do this by ear?



No, I didn't reference the OST at all while doing the mockup (probably should have!). This is actually the beginning of the Lord of The Rings Symphony that Howard Shore put together for live performances so the score I have may be slightly different to the movie to make it playable for the standard complement of percussionists. There's no Bass drum at that point, just timp and tam tam. 

I do agree there could be more timp though, I should note that my template isn't balanced at this point. I was just riding dynamics by ear and memory of the OST.


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## axb312 (Jun 14, 2020)

This guy does some pretty incredible stuff with the EW orchestra too:


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## prodigalson (Jun 14, 2020)

method1 said:


> Thanks for this post, it actually pushed me to jump on the EW train yesterday, I always really enjoy the sound of the Hollywood orchestra in demos but this is my first time using it. I was also a bit retiscent to learn yet another player but PLAY seems pretty straight forward so far.
> At the current pricing I actually don't think there's a better value all-in-one offering on the market right now!
> 
> However, from the patch side, I can see how this could be a turn off for some people, so many patches with fairly arcane naming conventions, it's going to take a while to wade through all this, so I appreciate the insight into your patch use. At least the manual is pretty thorough.
> ...



Reading the manual is an absolute must for these libraries, they are extremely thorough and theres simply no way to understand what the patches do without doing the work. Also, without reading the manual I wouldn't have learned that Play actually shares samples across patches that are in the same instance. So for example, If you load a legato patch and a sustain patch into the same instance Play will only load the samples the patches share once (i.e. the sustain samples). This is actually key to building an efficient and resource-friendly full orchestra and the only way I was able to get a full and comprehensive full orchestra loaded unpurged in under 32 GB of RAM. 

Also, I do think the Diamond upgrade may be worth it if only for the fact that HOW ships with the MID mic by default as opposed to the MAIN mics that come with HOB and HS gold. The LOTR mockup is just MAIN mics across the board, but I had to change the default mic in HOW to accomplish this. I have no idea why they made that decision.

EDIT: Kontakt may share samples within instances too, I don't know.


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## method1 (Jun 14, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> Also, I do think the Diamond upgrade may be worth it if only for the fact that HOW ships with the MID mic by default as opposed to the MAIN mics that come with HOB and HS gold. The LOTR mockup is just MAIN mics across the board, but I had to change the default mic in HOW to accomplish this. I have no idea why they made that decision.



Thanks, I didn't notice this until you pointed it out, it's a bit of an odd inconsistency, which I guess is solved by the upgrade.


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## stfciu (Jun 14, 2020)

Fantastic mockup.
When I think about getting EWHO I always go back and back to Andrew Barraclough channel to give myself some inspiration  








Andrew Barraclough







www.youtube.com




My ears say this is still a top notch library that needs some touch...like any other library as well.


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## RonOrchComp (Jun 14, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> No, I didn't reference the OST at all while doing the mockup (probably should have!). This is actually the beginning of the Lord of The Rings Symphony that Howard Shore put together for live performances so the score I have may be slightly different to the movie to make it playable for the standard complement of percussionists.



Ah, I see.

Where does one get the sheet music for that?


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## CT (Jun 14, 2020)

Yeah the symphony has some differences in instrumentation for ease of performance, and also some cases where he revived unused/alternate pieces and passages.


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## lettucehat (Jun 14, 2020)

method1 said:


> Thanks, I didn't notice this until you pointed it out, it's a bit of an odd inconsistency, which I guess is solved by the upgrade.



Yeah I think that's the point of choosing the mics they do., to force an upgrade to make them work together Joke's on them though, I don't want those winds!

Also curious about whether the additional mics make it worthwhile to upgrade, especially in the case of brass. Sometimes the default mics in Gold/GoldX (close/main) in both libraries just don't cut it for me (too harsh and wide on the brass sometimes), and put me off upgrading an otherwise kind of old and user un-friendly library. There's also a surprising lack of demos out there of how the additional Diamond mics sound. It's like they made this overpowered library before it became commonplace to have 4+ mic positions and before people cared to demo them extensively on Youtube. Now there are newer shinier libraries and no one's showing off the alternate mic positions of this old classic which can obviously sound nice as we hear in the audio demos. All I can glean from reading online is that the surround vintage mics sound good. Wish I could try them or hear them! Don't think the official demos really cover them.


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## cqd (Jun 14, 2020)

The extra mics make a massive difference..Goes from meh to close to the best library out there i reckon..


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## prodigalson (Jun 14, 2020)

ALTM said:


> Yeah I think that's the point of choosing the mics they do., to force an upgrade to make them work together Joke's on them though, I don't want those winds!
> 
> Also curious about whether the additional mics make it worthwhile to upgrade, especially in the case of brass. Sometimes the default mics in Gold/GoldX (close/main) in both libraries just don't cut it for me (too harsh and wide on the brass sometimes), and put me off upgrading an otherwise kind of old and user un-friendly library. There's also a surprising lack of demos out there of how the additional Diamond mics sound. It's like they made this overpowered library before it became commonplace to have 4+ mic positions and before people cared to demo them extensively on Youtube. Now there are newer shinier libraries and no one's showing off the alternate mic positions of this old classic which can obviously sound nice as we hear in the audio demos. All I can glean from reading online is that the surround vintage mics sound good. Wish I could try them or hear them! Don't think the official demos really cover them.



ill do a mix of this mockup with the other mics


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## NoamL (Jun 14, 2020)

May I ask what your RAM load is like on the HW Strings with just 1 mic position loaded?

I too am curious about the MAIN mics. Especially because they are not a Decca tree, they are a mix of Decca+Outriggers!! What a well kept secret.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Jun 14, 2020)

Hearing that on samples is a great reminder of how much I LOVE that piece, and it's not even in the movie! You could try doing some imaging work to put the celli and basses on the left side and second violins on the right to get that real LOTR sound.


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## JohnBMears (Jun 14, 2020)

HW Strings Gold has Mid-Tree, just like HW Woodwinds Gold. HW Brass Gold comes with Main (which is decca plus stereo outriggers).


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## borisb2 (Jun 15, 2020)

For HW Strings the close mics add a lot definition and bite to the sound - so definitly good to have them. At the moment I‘m only using the close mics .. such a great sound.

For HW Brass - as the room is more important for Brass - I use mainly the Main Mics.

For HW woodwinds I use no mics at all as the woodwinds got kicked out of my template 😋


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## NYC Composer (Jun 15, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> For HW Strings the close mics add a lot definition and bite to the sound - so definitly good to have them. At the moment I‘m only using the close mics .. such a great sound.
> 
> For HW Brass - as the room is more important for Brass - I use mainly the Main Mics.
> 
> For HW woodwinds I use no mics at all as the woodwinds got kicked out of my template 😋


I exiled them as well, but I really like HB a lot, and HS is very good.


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## hdsmile (Jun 15, 2020)

I use Hollywood orchestra diamond is great, but there is another great library EastWest *Symphonic Orchestra Platinum Plus* which is on sale right now by JRR shop with Discount code: (Group) for $314


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## dadadave (Jun 15, 2020)

I have HW Strings, Brass and Woodwinds (Gold). Every once in a while, I'm tempted to upgrade to diamond or get Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, and their announcement of the new version was such an occasion.

But then I go to the product page and see again that even just for Strings, Gold is 48GB while Diamond takes up a whopping 310GB and I just don't want to sacrifice that much precious SSD space to a single line of libraries. I'm sure it's useful for other people, but I really don't see myself fiddling around with 5 different mic positions to get the perfect sound. Personally, I believe I'd be be fine with close mics, main/mid and a mix that also incorporates the surround mics they used. I have the impression OT are really on to something with SINE's ability to create a custom mixed sample set (if I understood that correctly).

I mean, I guess it might be possible to delete the samples for mics I don't use, but that also feels sort of wrong... :D


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## Ashermusic (Jun 15, 2020)

dadadave said:


> I just don't want to sacrifice that much precious SSD space to a single line of libraries.



You don’t have to. Keep them all on an HD and only copy one or two mics to the SSD and in the Installation Center, ooint them to the SSD.


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## dadadave (Jun 15, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> You don’t have to. Keep them all on an HD and only copy one or two mics to the SSD and in the Installation Center, ooint them to the SSD.



Can you point to multiple locations in the installation center, by chance? Or would the mic positions on a HD basically just sit there as backup? It would be nice to be able to still quickly access the less frequently used mic positions. Maybe that's asking a bit much, on the other hand, if you make libraries that take up 310GB, maybe you should consider enabling users to split them up among multiple drives (especially when I think of the time when Hollywood Strings Diamond came out).


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## Ashermusic (Jun 15, 2020)

dadadave said:


> Can you point to multiple locations in the installation center, by chance? Or would the mic positions on a HD basically just sit there as backup? It would be nice to be able to still quickly access the less frequently used mic positions. Maybe that's asking a bit much, on the other hand, if you make libraries that take up 310GB, maybe you should consider enabling users to split them up among multiple drives (especially when I think of the time when Hollywood Strings Diamond came out).



No you can’t, so yes, as a backup.


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## NoamL (Jun 15, 2020)

Does anyone know when the 60% sale ends? None of the emails seem to say. I guess they want it open ended. Another question is if I put it on a computer that's not connected to my iLok, do I need to buy a 2nd iLok (not a big problem, just a hassle) or is there an e-licensing system where you don't need a physical dongle just an iLok account & always-connected computer??

Edit: Sorry @Pando I'm super derailing your thread  That mockup really made me take a 2nd look at HWS at the same time that I was looking at Cinestrings & LASS again idly.... Great job! You really showed what HWO can do.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 15, 2020)

NoamL said:


> Does anyone know when the 60% sale ends? None of the emails seem to say. I guess they want it open ended. Another question is if I put it on a computer that's not connected to my iLok, do I need to buy a 2nd iLok (not a big problem, just a hassle) or is there an e-licensing system where you don't need a physical dongle just an iLok account & always-connected computer??



You don’t need a physical iLok, just an account to link it to your computer.


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## germancomponist (Jun 15, 2020)

Yes yes yes, this is still a great library! I did many programming, mostly by adjusting the release times (ADSR curve) for so many patches. The sound was and is very good!

Example


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## hdsmile (Jun 15, 2020)

it’s a pity that this thread just froze, does anyone know what happened there?
Rebalanced patches for Hollywood Strings was a great idea!


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## hdsmile (Jun 15, 2020)

germancomponist said:


> Yes yes yes, this is still a great library! I did many programming, mostly by adjusting the release times (ADSR curve) for so many patches. The sound was and is very good!


Obviously you meant EWSOP Plus, not HOD, right? Anyway your example is about EWQLSO isn’t it?
Because there is 2 different librarys:
1. EWSOP Plus - https://www.jrrshop.com/eastwest-ql-symphonic-orchestra-platinum-plus-15812 (EastWest Symphonic Orchestra Platinum Plus)
2. HOD - https://www.jrrshop.com/eastwest-hollywood-orchestra-diamond (Hollywood Orchestra Diamond)


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## novaburst (Jun 16, 2020)

ALTM said:


> It's like they made this overpowered library before it became commonplace to have 4+ mic positions and before people cared to demo them extensively on Youtube. Now there are newer shinier libraries and no one's showing off the alternate mic positions of this old classic



I think for the most part when using librarys it's the sound, tone and ambiance that users are going for, and it's mic position that helps a great deal with that undoubtedly. 

Yes for the first part one mic position will do but you can do so much more with mics in different areas of the instruments. 

Also the size of the library and power of the library is neither hear nor there as firstly you can spend a small amount on a SSD and place the librarys on it or you don't need to install the whole library if you are short on space. 

Power consumption means very little if you have a good machine and know how to work with it using things like VEpro and server machine.

At the end of the day its really depends on what you want, do you want the library to limit what you can do or do you want the library to give you more possibilities, 

I think the EWHO gives you more possibilities to achieve certain projects.


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## novaburst (Jun 16, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> It is just a workflow problem. I load stuff on the go and fiddling with midi channel plugins everytime is just such an inspiration killer



I can never understand this type of comment, I think I know where it comes from, 

If your not prepared to sit down with a library and take time to go through the package well yer you will get comments like the one you made but I think for the most part if you take time to live with any certain libraries you will at least know and understand what trigger to pull when you are after a patch. 

OK some say well I just ant got the time to sit down with a library and go through all the patches I would say if your projects don't call for that you need a library with instant gratification, and HO is not for you. 

I think for the most part the E W librarys are full of orchestral abilities if you don't need that well just choose the ones you need but for some one who understands what a lot of those patches mean it becomes a gold mine.


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## Geoff Moore (Jun 16, 2020)

Awesome mock-up, @prodigalson!

Since I'm a cautious purchaser who spent the last few days researching Hollywood Orchestra in past threads here, I can hopefully be of some help to those considering a purchase.

The general consensus on the forum (though of course you should use your ears and decide for yourself) seems to be Strings amazing, Brass amazing, Percussion good, Woodwinds bad.

In terms of Gold or Diamond, a lot of people say that Diamond is essential, but in terms of mics it seems to be much more important for brass than for strings or percussion (not sure about woodwinds). The mics are not the only difference - the Diamond edition of strings, for example, also contains bow change legato patches and divisi mics not present in Gold. For some users these (particularly the latter) are often cited as essential.



ALTM said:


> Also curious about whether the additional mics make it worthwhile to upgrade, especially in the case of brass. Sometimes the default mics in Gold/GoldX (close/main) in both libraries just don't cut it for me (too harsh and wide on the brass sometimes), and put me off upgrading an otherwise kind of old and user un-friendly library. There's also a surprising lack of demos out there of how the additional Diamond mics sound. It's like they made this overpowered library before it became commonplace to have 4+ mic positions and before people cared to demo them extensively on Youtube. Now there are newer shinier libraries and no one's showing off the alternate mic positions of this old classic which can obviously sound nice as we hear in the audio demos. All I can glean from reading online is that the surround vintage mics sound good. Wish I could try them or hear them! Don't think the official demos really cover them.



In this thread @JohnBMears is kind enough to share a bunch of microphone comparisons for various patches from Hollywood Strings and Brass:




__





Hollywood Strings/Brass Mic


Are there any audio/video examples of the different available mic positions offered in Hollywood Diamond? Would love to hear the differences between the Main, Mid, Close, Surround and Alternate




vi-control.net





In this thread there's lot's of mic discussion, and near the bottom of page 5 a volume matched mic comparison from @Dex:




__





Hollywood Strings: worth an upgrade to diamond?


Thanks for the information. Really interesting. Just to be clear, when you refer to the main mics (which you like and have praised) you mean the ones that come with Gold, right? Beautiful sound I feel. NP and yes, gold should have the mains




vi-control.net





Ultimately I went with Hollywood Strings Gold (if money had been no object I'd have got Brass as well). Main reasons I chose Gold over Diamond were not price or hard drive space, but:

1) I read a lot of people saying they loved Diamond's mics but avoided any of the complex patches that blend lots of samples for extra realism and control because they were too taxing on the system (even with new single-machine setups Diamond is still super resource intensive) - for me I'd much rather be able to use these super expressive complex patches with lower bit-rate samples and one mic than not be able to run them at all.

2) I'm comfortable with using effects to adjust clarity and depth of instruments in the mix - you can use something like Auburn Sounds Panagement 2 (there's a free edition) to do this incredibly easily and effectively in my opinion. For me this mitigates not having the extra mic positions.

3) I'm not concerned with especially detailed or realistic orchestration, so the bow change legato and divisi wasn't as important to me.



NoamL said:


> Does anyone know when the 60% sale ends? None of the emails seem to say. I guess they want it open ended. Another question is if I put it on a computer that's not connected to my iLok, do I need to buy a 2nd iLok (not a big problem, just a hassle) or is there an e-licensing system where you don't need a physical dongle just an iLok account & always-connected computer??



I saw a sale announcement that said the promotion was supposed to be finishing yesterday, the 15th (edit: looks like it's still on, see the next post). No physical dongle is required, the license for a library can live on your computer (so no constant connection needed either). However! If that computer dies... license gone forever.

There is an update to Hollywood Orchestra coming soon called Opus that promises 230gb new samples (because I think we can all agree these libraries are a bit too small at the moment /s) and greater ease of use, but there doesn't seem to be much info on it yet...


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## hdsmile (Jun 16, 2020)

Geoff Moore said:


> I saw a sale announcement that said the promotion was supposed to be finishing yesterday, the 15th. EW sales are pretty regular though


No no is not finished is still on sale and even more as 60% with code 'Group'
1. EWSOP Plus - https://www.jrrshop.com/eastwest-ql-symphonic-orchestra-platinum-plus-15812 (EastWest Symphonic Orchestra Platinum Plus)
2. HOD - https://www.jrrshop.com/eastwest-hollywood-orchestra-diamond (Hollywood Orchestra Diamond)


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## Ashermusic (Jun 16, 2020)

novaburst said:


> I can never understand this type of comment, I think I know where it comes from,
> 
> If your not prepared to sit down with a library and take time to go through the package well yer you will get comments like the one you made but I think for the most part if you take time to live with any certain libraries you will at least know and understand what trigger to pull when you are after a patch.
> 
> ...



Winner, winner, chicken dinner.


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## novaburst (Jun 16, 2020)

Geoff Moore said:


> I'm not concerned with especially detailed or realistic orchestration, so the bow change legato and divisi wasn't as important to me.



This is partly what I try to explain to users, often get evolved with librarys that have way and beyond what they will ever use, and then complain about it how resource hungry or how complex it is, 

If users are unconcerned about sound or articulation, then does it really matter what orchestral library you have just use the kontakt stock library and be done with. 

There is no point in purchasing a library that has way and above than what you need and then slam it for spoiling your work flow just get some thing simple and cheap or on the other hand put time and energy in what you love,


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## prodigalson (Jun 16, 2020)

As promised, here's a version of the mockup with a multi-mic set up. I also mocked up a bit more of the score so it's a little longer. 



The previous version just had the MAIN mics for each section. in this mockup I did the following

Winds: Added some surround mics for depth and distance, close mics on the solos/features
Brass: Added quite a bit of Surround mics for rooms sound, also close mics on the horn solos.
Perc: also added quite a bit more surround mics for distance but also some close on the Timp for definition.
Strings: All sections have a little Surround mic level, with more level on the Basses. All sections other than Basses also have quite a bit of close mic.

Personally, I think the Surround mics especially help the Brass and celli in this example. 

I also noticed as I was going through that some patches come with the onboard reverb enabled, others dont so I disable the onboard reverb for everything. 

For added reverb, I have all sections going through their respective Spaces II So Cal Hall presets to varying degrees (Hey, its an EW mockup after all). Also theres a little of Seventh Heaven Boston Hall for some glue.

Just the UAD G Bus Compressor on the master for some level, gentle compression and glue.


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## lettucehat (Jun 16, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> As promised, here's a version of the mockup with a multi-mic set up. I also mocked up a bit more of the score so it's a little longer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Interesting... I don't hear a huge difference in the strings, to the extent that my ears can even separate those from the rest of the mix. The original sounded great as does this one. But I've heard enough examples linked in this thread to know that there is a real difference with the extra string mics. For brass, I don't even need to be sold. I know from experience that the default main position is really restrictive and harsh, and the mids/vintage-surrounds I've heard in the other threads sound much more like what I want out of the library. Only problem is I own silver and the upgrade price is silly!

Thanks for doing this!

And thanks to the user posting the JRRShop links, I did not realize this current sale had better prices on third party sites (Best Service is a negative on this). Shame about the upgrade structure!


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## prodigalson (Jun 16, 2020)

NoamL said:


> May I ask what your RAM load is like on the HW Strings with just 1 mic position loaded?
> 
> I too am curious about the MAIN mics. Especially because they are not a Decca tree, they are a mix of Decca+Outriggers!! What a well kept secret.



Im not totally sure how to tell the RAM hit of just the strings. I know that overall my full template takes up just a little under 20GB with one mic so the strings must be no more than 12-15GB total?


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## PaulieDC (Jun 16, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> All the Upbows/Downbows, Stacc Slurs, Finger Position etc etc just don't feel necessary at the end of the day and I think the bloat just turned people off.


That's the one reason why I've hesitated on trying it out further, I need a spreadsheet to know what all the codes are, lol. The stuff does sound great as does the OP's mockup. I mean, listen to the audio demos on the website, even with EWSO, still great to this day.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 16, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> That's the one reason why I've hesitated on trying it out further, I need a spreadsheet to know what all the codes are, lol.



There is this thing called a manual. You may have heard of it on the planet you come from.


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## NoamL (Jun 16, 2020)

This is for sure a RTFM library. There are a zillion patches but most of them are actually less-RAM-intensive versions of the main, most powerful patches. Intended for back when computers could hardly run this beast. Some of those lighter weight patches might still be useful for laptop users.

I'm trying your advice right now Jay about installing in a separate location. I've moved the main library folder & just the Main mics to an SSD. Will see how it plays tomorrow!


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## Ashermusic (Jun 16, 2020)

NoamL said:


> I'm trying your advice right now Jay about installing in a separate location. I've moved the main library folder & just the Main mics to an SSD. Will see how it plays tomorrow!



No don’t move them, copy them. You want a complete set backed up.

Be aware that different sections of the orchestra have different default mics. If memory serves me, all default to the Main micexcept the woodwinds which default to the mids. I prefer though the mids for the strings and the close mics for the woodwinds, so I copied those over as well.


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## hdsmile (Jun 16, 2020)

NoamL said:


> I'm trying ...installing in a separate location.


yeah that's work fine and I also use it on different location, but I guess better to keep the entire library in one drive/location, because copy/move library to different locations a bit risky as you can get some corrupted patches/samples and afterwards is better to double-check all copied data


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## El Buhdai (Jun 16, 2020)

I have a similar love-hate relationship with Hollywood Orchestra. I love how HS has a patch for just about anything I might need, even if the workflow is maddening as a result if I don't use a template. I love the tone of some of those patches even with only the standard mics and some reverb.

I love the tone of the brass even if the trombones feel unworkable for me at times due to their blatant attack and legato transition crossfades and jarring lack of dynamic layers. In fact, I have no idea how you (OP) managed to make them not stick out like a sore thumb in that mockup if they were used during the quiet sections.

I also love the string runs patches because they're surprisingly workable and if you use it right I think it can achieve some of the most realistic runs I've heard outside of dedicated runs libraries.

And I also have EWHO and ComposerCloud to thank for being one of the only affordable options when I was new. For just 30 bucks a month a few years ago, I had access to one of the best-sounding orchestras on the market, and with it being so antiquated in the workflow department, it made the learning process for every other library feel like a breeze. This made it perfect for learning through pure determination. For those reasons I will forever be grateful to this library and EastWest.

_However..._

The loading times and hardware intensity, and I have experienced so many technical issues with Hollywood Orchestra and Spaces II that I have to have another orchestra to fall back on for most uses. I still use it for action and adventure pieces because of its in-your-face sound though.

If EastWest can get reduce the insane RAM requirements and make improvements to the woodwinds this fall with the Opus Edition, I may actually buy Hollywood Orchestra so I can cancel ComposerCloud once and for all and finally graduate from my status as a newbie.

As for the mockup, I find it very inspiring. I'm no master of Hollywood Orchestra but after 3 years of experience with it I'm confident that I'm at least fairly good at using it and can make some decently believable stuff with it. But your demo reminded me what a diamond in the rough this library is and it makes me wanna make another project with it and continue along the path to mastery.

P.S.: Seriously guys, don't sleep on the strings runs patches. Like I said, I'm no master, but I think you can get some fairly solid results with it, and they can be even better when they're not as exposed as they are in my example. Listen to the clip. When the runs go up, the section plays sloppy slurred staccatos, and when the runs go down, they play looser, full-on runs.


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## EricValette (Jun 17, 2020)

Wow, you did an amazing job with the mockup!

I'm a big fan of the OST and love the concert versions too, and you really make a great use of the HO here! Love the mix too.

To approach the same sound, I usually layer many differents librarys but I must admit that HO remain in 2020 the best choice to achieve this type of Hollywood classic symphonic sound. Each time I have make a LOTR mockup for fun, I finaly find myself use and re-use this option. Very well done!

I've few questions :
- Do you use both the FR and RR presets of So Cal Hall in Spaces II, or just the FR ones ?
- Concerning Boston Hall, is it A or B preset in Seventh Heaven ? Do you use it as an insert or a send fx ?
- There is a harp that blend very well with others sections of the orchestra, is it Hollywood Harp too or another stuff ? I love the overall sound...

On a more technical level, I don't know if I uses it well but how do you control yourself the alternance of bow changes and slurs without bow changes with the "BC Port Slur legato" patch ? I've read the manual but it simply said _"slower tempos use the bow change samples while
faster tempos use the slur samples. And legato transitions are also shorter or longer depending
on the speed of the passage. The tempo is detected with a script that calculates
the time between consecutive notes. When notes are played with a MIDI Velocity at the
high end of its range, close to 127, tempo detection it temporarily turned off and those
notes play with the fastest slur possible"._
I humbly admit that it was never very clear to me, maybe because english is not my main language, but is there a simple way to control the bow change independently of the tempo detection script ? When I try to play or program MIDI velocity close to 127, played slurs are often too fast for my taste...
... To resume, how do you manage this powerful patch to control yourself when bow changes occurs or not whatever tempo you choose and with transition speed of your choice ? In your mockup, it sounds so beautifully! 

Thanks a lot by advance and once again, you can be very proud of yourself for this really impressive work, probably one of the best LOTR mockup I've ever listened to!


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## Drundfunk (Jun 17, 2020)

Awesome mockup!


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## EricValette (Jun 17, 2020)

EricValette said:


> On a more technical level, I don't know if I uses it well but how do you control yourself the alternance of bow changes and slurs without bow changes with the "BC Port Slur legato" patch ? I've read the manual but it simply said _"slower tempos use the bow change samples while
> faster tempos use the slur samples. And legato transitions are also shorter or longer depending
> on the speed of the passage. The tempo is detected with a script that calculates
> the time between consecutive notes. When notes are played with a MIDI Velocity at the
> ...



It seems that I finally found the answer to my own question in the manual, page 59:

_"If you want more control of which notes use Bow Change
and which use the Slur or Portamento, then click on the Other button in the Player view
to turn it off; then use MIDI Control Code 14 instead. If CC14 is in the range 64–127
you will hear bow change samples; in the range 0–63, the slur or portamento samples.
You can create a CC14 envelope in a sequencer or assign that MIDI Control Code to a
slider or knob you plan to operate manually."_

It works great for me now and makes using the patch a lot easier!


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## Dex (Jun 17, 2020)

That's a great clip, @El Buhdai. Is that all HO Gold?


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## lettucehat (Jun 18, 2020)

El Buhdai said:


> I have a similar love-hate relationship with Hollywood Orchestra. I love how HS has a patch for just about anything I might need, even if the workflow is maddening as a result if I don't use a template. I love the tone of some of those patches even with only the standard mics and some reverb.
> 
> I love the tone of the brass even if the trombones feel unworkable for me at times due to their blatant attack and legato transition crossfades and jarring lack of dynamic layers. In fact, I have no idea how you (OP) managed to make them not stick out like a sore thumb in that mockup if they were used during the quiet sections.
> 
> ...



I know this thread is all over the place, but are you playing one violin patch from :26 onward or are you switching between a spiccato and playable runs patch? Or some pre-recorded runs that just happen to work nicely with the piece?


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## cqd (Jun 18, 2020)

@El Buhdai That's pretty sick..


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## Symfoniq (Jun 18, 2020)

Just realized that the JRR Shop link in this thread is for the license-only version of Hollywood Strings. You have to already have an EW hard drive containing the samples.

Anyone know if there is a way to get the downloadable version with the group buy discount?


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## prodigalson (Jun 18, 2020)

EricValette said:


> I've few questions :
> - Do you use both the FR and RR presets of So Cal Hall in Spaces II, or just the FR ones ?
> - Concerning Boston Hall, is it A or B preset in Seventh Heaven ? Do you use it as an insert or a send fx ?
> - There is a harp that blend very well with others sections of the orchestra, is it Hollywood Harp too or another stuff ? I love the overall sound...



Thanks for the kind words. To answer your Q's:

- I only used the RR presets in Spaces 2, not for any specific reason, they're just the ones I chose. 
- I used Boston Hall B as a send to varying levels of each section after the Spaces send. 
- The harp is Hollywood Harp but just the Main mic because I only have Hollywood Harp Gold. 

Thanks for the info on the BC patches, I'll be honest, I didn't think that hard about it I just played and adjusted velocities until it sounded more or less right. I could probably get it better if I actually knew how they worked LOL.


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## method1 (Jun 18, 2020)

Symfoniq said:


> Just realized that the JRR Shop link in this thread is for the license-only version of Hollywood Strings. You have to already have an EW hard drive containing the samples.
> 
> Anyone know if there is a way to get the downloadable version with the group buy discount?



Check Audiodeluxe, (discount visible when logged in) they have confirmed it's downloadable.
In the case of JRR I think the page description probably needs updating.


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## Eloy (Jun 18, 2020)

Thank you all for this thread.
I just purchased the Hollywood strings Diamond. It is running through Logic Pro -VEP pro w/ MIR = sounds great (cello legatos). Expression is on cc11 - I want to change to Breath controller. However when inserting “Modifier” on channel strip, there is no change. Is it possible to use a breath controller with “Play”?


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## Dex (Jun 18, 2020)

Eloy said:


> Thank you all for this thread.
> I just purchased the Hollywood strings Diamond. It is running through Logic Pro -VEP pro w/ MIR = sounds great (cello legatos). Expression is on cc11 - I want to change to Breath controller. However when inserting “Modifier” on channel strip, there is no change. Is it possible to use a breath controller with “Play”?


Not directly. You can do it but you’ll need to put a separate midi routing plugin before Play in your DAW.


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## Eloy (Jun 18, 2020)

Dex said:


> Not directly. You can do it but you’ll need to put a separate midi routing plugin before Play in your DAW.


Just figured it out- I had to put ”Play” in stand alone first. Then once I went back to Logic Pro - the ”Modifier” plug in operates properly, and now my breath controller works great.


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## Jay Panikkar (Jun 18, 2020)

@prodigalson Great mockup! I like the multi-mic version.

I've yet to find another library with playable string runs similar to Hollywood Strings. I remember the first time I got Hollywood Orchestra a couple years ago, I simply loaded up multiple mics, started playing with only a pedal for CC and got results that could almost pass for finished music.

Here's an example:




HO is one of those libraries where you could be the biggest noob on the planet (like me :D) and it tricks you into thinking you're more competent than you actually are.


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## EricValette (Jun 18, 2020)

prodigalson said:


> Thanks for the kind words. To answer your Q's:
> 
> - I only used the RR presets in Spaces 2, not for any specific reason, they're just the ones I chose.
> - I used Boston Hall B as a send to varying levels of each section after the Spaces send.
> ...


Thanks for your reply, i really appreciate it!


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## PaulieDC (Jun 18, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> There is this thing called a manual. You may have heard of it on the planet you come from.


lol, looks like I didn't word that correctly... I should have said I need to _make _a spreadsheet. Even that was only making a statement regarding the codes, the manual already has a nice articulation grid. If in a moment of creativity you want to decide between (Sus) 1 NV NV NV VB RR or (Sus) 3 NV NV VB MV RR or instead should it be Sus 6 RR KSFP or Sus 9 RR 4th Position, that's easy, right? Of COURSE right!

FWIW on my planet we have a company called Spitfire Audio whose UI, in fact UX is better by 3 orders of magnitude, give or take a few keystrokes.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 19, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> FWIW on my planet we have a company called Spitfire Audio whose UI, in fact UX is better by 3 orders of magnitude, give or take a few keystrokes.



it also has a manual and without it, I never would have figured out how to reassign Keyswitching notes, which two other guys also couldn’t until I instructed them.


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## Symfoniq (Jun 19, 2020)

EDIT: I was able to use Live Chat to get this resolved.


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## Symfoniq (Jun 29, 2020)

Just want to say thanks to @prodigalson for making me reconsider my position on the Hollywood Orchestra.

My first go-around on ComposerCloud several years ago (2015?), I found PLAY slow and buggy, and the single mic position too limiting (I don't think ComposerCloud X existed yet).

Now here we are in 2020, and PLAY is somehow _extremely_ fast. In fact, it loads multiple gigabytes of mic positions _much_ faster than Kontakt. And now that Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is so affordable, and fast SSD storage so cheap, there is no reason not to install all the mic positions.

I'm finding the manuals to be a necessary read, but easy enough to follow. Most of the patches sound quite good, and many will be going into my template alongside CSS and CSB.

So my opinion on Hollywood Orchestra is changing. I once considered it a frustrating, subpar product, but now I think it was ahead of its time. I know of nothing else that has been sampled this deeply. Now that we have computers that can run it easily, and PLAY seems to have grown up, Hollywood Orchestra is worth revisiting.


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## aj_vader (Jul 1, 2020)

prodigalson said:


>




Great work! EWHO Can be very bright which isn't suitable for the lord of the rings sound, but you've achieved this quite well! Congratulations.


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## aj_vader (Jul 1, 2020)

stfciu said:


> Fantastic mockup.
> When I think about getting EWHO I always go back and back to Andrew Barraclough channel to give myself some inspiration
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you 

I do more with East West Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, but I am not able to put it on youtube. Here is some more EWHOD;









BMG Production Music


BMG Production Music uses SourceAudio for music distribution




bmgmusic.sourceaudio.com













BMG Production Music


BMG Production Music uses SourceAudio for music distribution




bmgmusic.sourceaudio.com


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## ricoderks (Jul 1, 2020)

aj_vader said:


> Thank you
> 
> I do more with East West Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, but I am not able to put it on youtube. Here is some more EWHOD;
> 
> ...


Oh wow! Yes I discovered your channel a while ago. Actually you convinced me to dig up my old HDD with diamond on it! Much love man. You are very skilled with the EW libraries.

Ps: thanks for making me rework my never ending template again.... grrrr..haha


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## aj_vader (Jul 1, 2020)

ricoderks said:


> Oh wow! Yes I discovered your channel a while ago. Actually you convinced me to dig up my old HDD with diamond on it! Much love man. You are very skilled with the EW libraries.
> 
> Ps: thanks for making me rework my never ending template again.... grrrr..haha


Haha! Thanks and you're welcome!


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## Beans (Aug 19, 2020)

Resurrecting this topic while EWHO is still on the current sale, since the thread inspired me.

I was an EWQLSO customer back in the GIGA days, and tried out the Composer Cloud when it first game out. While there were several libraries I fell in love with (Silk, Ra), I didn't much care for the latest full orchestra offerings.

I recently picked up EWHO Diamond and read through the strings manual quite heavily, and after some tinkering see that this *definitely has its place*. As a test run of sorts, I've started using EWHO as my starting point for the "meat and potatoes" of an orchestra, heading mainly to CSS, CSB, Aaron Venture IB, and BBCSO Pro whenever something doesn't quite work with HO alone.

As for blending libraries together: if it's a matter of putting Flutes a3 from BBCSO with EWHO Brass, it's not been much a problem. But, I'm in (very) early days of learning how to best layer, say, EWHO trumpets with IB's trumpet.

I really appreciate project files I'm finding, as seen at Synthestration.com. If we could only get hold of one of Andrew's...


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## EricValette (Aug 19, 2020)

Beans said:


> If we could only get hold of one of Andrew's...



If only...


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## SupremeFist (Aug 20, 2020)

I just found this thread and thanks to the brilliant examples posted here I realised I simply like the sound of HO more than any I do of the more recent big-ticket alternatives. So I bought Diamond for the silly price of £250, which is less than BBCSO Core on sale.. 

Last time I was regularly scoring shorts/docs was with Ewqlso so I am familiar with the clunky EW way of providing millions of presets with baffling names. And the forthcoming Opus expansion makes me confident it will remain a top-tier choice. Thanks to all for the inspiration! See you in a month when it's finished downloading.


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## Markrs (Aug 20, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I just found this thread and thanks to the brilliant examples posted here I realised I simply like the sound of HO more than any I do of the more recent big-ticket alternatives. So I bought Diamond for the silly price of £250, which is less than BBCSO Core on sale..
> 
> Last time I was regularly scoring shorts/docs was with Ewqlso so I am familiar with the clunky EW way of providing millions of presets with baffling names. And the forthcoming Opus expansion makes me confident it will remain a top-tier choice. Thanks to all for the inspiration! See you in a month when it's finished downloading.


Thinking about doing the same, I have composer cloud but I would then be able to own this. Bit concerned about EW upgrade path with HOOPUS as many say it is cheaper to buy the full version of their libraries. however I saw a post somewhere that said you would need HO to get opus, so it might be more if an expansion than a library you buy on its own.


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## nolotrippen (Aug 20, 2020)

Markrs said:


> Thinking about doing the same, I have composer cloud but I would then be able to own this. Bit concerned about EW upgrade path with HOOPUS as many say it is cheaper to buy the full version of their libraries. however I saw a post somewhere that said you would need HO to get opus, so it might be more if an expansion than a library you buy on its own.



Confusing. Just contacted them online was told I do not have to own HO first.


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## Markrs (Aug 20, 2020)

nolotrippen said:


> Confusing. Just contacted them online was told I do not have to own HO first.


That’s good to know, but I am confused as to whether it is better to get HO diamond now or buy HOOPUS as a bundle when it comes out. As I have composer cloud I can wait and see and EW will always have sales in the future


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## nolotrippen (Aug 20, 2020)

Markrs said:


> That’s good to know, but I am confused as to whether it is better to get HO diamond now or buy HOOPUS as a bundle when it comes out. As I have composer cloud I can wait and see and EW will always have sales in the future



Ah, but it's only good to know if the person responding to my question is correct. I've had the experience that not all customer service knows that it's talking about.


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## SlHarder (Aug 27, 2020)

This is a series of long form tutorials targeted at ComposerCloud subscribers. Eventually will include 10 or so.







__





EastWest - One Minute ComposerCloud Tips (PLAY)


With over 100 international awards to its credit, EastWest virtual instruments are widely considered to be the best available and are used by today's top working composers in all media




www.soundsonline.com


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## stfciu (Aug 27, 2020)

SlHarder said:


> This is a series of long form tutorials targeted at ComposerCloud subscribers. Eventually will include 10 or so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This sounds pretty damn good


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## Jkist (Aug 27, 2020)

Tempting to buy Hollywood Orchestra, but hard to know if I should go with Gold or Diamond. Its not immediately obvious on their website what the difference is.

Also how are the solo instruments in these libraries? Worth springing for them?


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## stfciu (Aug 27, 2020)

Now I have big dilemma. CCX or HO Diamond :| The additional mic options give more versality however the close mic can give a lot of variety and the extras I can get is very tempting (other libraries). What to choose what to choose


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## Markrs (Aug 27, 2020)

stfciu said:


> Now I have big dilemma. CCX or HO Diamond :| The additional mic options give more versality however the close mic can give a lot of variety and the extras I can get is very tempting (other libraries). What to choose what to choose


I have CCX but plan to get HO Diamond at some point, not sure if the extra mics will add anything but the price for HO Diamond is very good and I will get all the rest of the stuff with CCX. Thought at the moment I am waiting in HOOPUS as EastWest upgrade prices are often very poor versus new prices, so not sure I want to take the risk on HO Diamond and then pay a lot extra for the HOOPUS upgrade


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## pcarrilho (Aug 27, 2020)

Markrs said:


> I have CCX but plan to get HO Diamond at some point, not sure if the extra mics will add anything but the price for HO Diamond is very good and I will get all the rest of the stuff with CCX. Thought at the moment I am waiting in HOOPUS as EastWest upgrade prices are often very poor versus new prices, so not sure I want to take the risk on HO Diamond and then pay a lot extra for the HOOPUS upgrade



The vintage Mic on Diamond is really good


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## stfciu (Aug 27, 2020)

Markrs said:


> I have CCX but plan to get HO Diamond at some point, not sure if the extra mics will add anything but the price for HO Diamond is very good and I will get all the rest of the stuff with CCX. Thought at the moment I am waiting in HOOPUS as EastWest upgrade prices are often very poor versus new prices, so not sure I want to take the risk on HO Diamond and then pay a lot extra for the HOOPUS upgrade


That seems to be the golden point. Not affordable atm however.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 27, 2020)

pcarrilho said:


> The vintage Mic on Diamond is really good




I use it a lot.


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## Dave Connor (Aug 27, 2020)

A heads up. Definitely check out the different string positions! They are Key Switched Legatos and very easy to use while offering you different samples on the same patch. Sometimes HS can sound a bit heavy up high if you don’t switch over to those higher positions. They can sit in the track entirely differently and make it just right. Also they relieve the use of the same samples over and over. If you’re looking to give a mock-up that extra something, you would be surprised what they add. Keep in mind that real players are constantly changing positions and that’s the sound we are all used to hearing.


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## SlHarder (Aug 28, 2020)

Dave Connor said:


> A heads up. Definitely check out the different string positions! They are Key Switched Legatos and very easy to use while offering you different samples on the same patch.



Here's a 2 page pdf with details



http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/samples/soniccontrol/EastWest-Hollywood-Strings-Keyswitch-Finger-Positions_03-13-2012.pdf


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