# Metropolis Ark 5 is out now! Buy the entire Series on SINE in one bundle now!



## OrchestralTools (Dec 17, 2021)

So, the secret is out. Metropolis Ark 5 is the end of an era! 

A big thank you to everyone who joined us for the Premiere. Putting it together was a lot of fun, and we really enjoyed some of your speculation on what we were up to (kudos to those who guessed correctly!). 

Metropolis Ark 5 is out, and available now on SINE at an introductory price of €249. This one is the Orchestra of Functions, a composer's toolkit built to operate in its own right and in tandem with the rest of the Metropolis Ark collections. It’s the final chapter in the Metropolis Ark Series, and we wanted to make sure we rounded it off by adding all the special details that occurred to us as we created Arks 1, 2, 3, and 4. 

We’re also offering the entire Metropolis Ark Series in one SINE bundle at an introductory price of €999 (total price of collections is €2,695). This includes all 5 Metropolis Ark collections—1 and 2 were already on SINE, and we’ve released 3 and 4 on SINE today.

Purchase MA5 here.
Purchase Metropolis Ark Bundle here.


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## DJiLAND (Dec 17, 2021)

Now the Berlin Main is over and the LA Main series begins.


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## Jose7822 (Dec 17, 2021)

Say it isn’t so. I just got the Berlin series 😫.


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## Evans (Dec 17, 2021)

Just tell us.


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## muziksculp (Dec 18, 2021)




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## Lode_Runner (Dec 21, 2021)

I've got literally no idea what this might be. If only there was some sort of clue.


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## tcb (Dec 21, 2021)

Marketing trick summary
VSL:Say noting until release
Spitfire: Post a puzzle before release
OT: Post a puzzle before release,but reveal it on VI's advertisement


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## Jose7822 (Dec 21, 2021)

Seriously. It’s all over, even now I can see it on the side of my screen 😂.

Intro offer €249. Reg €449.


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## easyrider (Dec 21, 2021)

🤣


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## CGR (Dec 21, 2021)




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## CGR (Dec 21, 2021)




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## Evans (Dec 21, 2021)

They should probably buy more ads if they want us to notice.


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## Jose7822 (Dec 21, 2021)

Wow…dude!!


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## Zanshin (Dec 21, 2021)

@CGR I reported you for leaking OT's marketing campaign. Not cool dude.


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## easyrider (Dec 21, 2021)

A negative reality inversion! 🤣


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## tcb (Dec 21, 2021)




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## Mr Sakitumi (Dec 21, 2021)




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## Hendrixon (Dec 21, 2021)

Orchestral Tools - End Of Head Of Marketing Era


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## Evans (Dec 21, 2021)

I wish OT would stop lying to us...

... Ark 5 is clearly *not *"out now."


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## Lode_Runner (Dec 21, 2021)




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## Jose7822 (Dec 21, 2021)

And why not .


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## Hendrixon (Dec 21, 2021)

Lode_Runner said:


>


That's the guy? lol


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## Casiquire (Dec 21, 2021)

These events are still worth watching. If we had just looked at an ad for BSS last year and chosen not to watch the announcement, we would've missed the info about their SINE compression, the Berlin Orchestra, the Berklee collaboration, the plans for the series on SINE, etc


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## easyrider (Dec 21, 2021)

What are the Arks like I don’t have any is 5 any good? 😂


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## PaulieDC (Dec 21, 2021)

There's still the End of an Era thing though... announcing Ark 5 isn't that. Somebody in another thread saw a bundle of $999 for Arks 1-4. Is that a limited-time thing and then they are no more?

I've got a funny feeling about this...

I did notice that Arks 1-2 are available in SINE... is that new or has that been that way for a while? I don't have any of the Arks... and if they ported it to SINE then ending it would be weird.

Not sure why I'm so wound up about this one, lol!


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## PaulieDC (Dec 21, 2021)

WAIT A MINUTE... Is it simply that they are releasing everything else on SINE and Kontakt is no more, and to sweeten the deal they slapped Ark 5 upon our wallets?


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## jbuhler (Dec 21, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> WAIT A MINUTE... Is it simply that they are releasing everything else on SINE and Kontakt is no more, and to sweeten the deal they slapped Ark 5 upon our wallets?


The release of Ark 5 reminds me a lot of the release of BSS last year in terms of dropping it without explicit pre-release hype.

For me a trailer Ark is about the least interesting thing OT could do with a new Ark, so it may be for the best that they are bringing the series to a close. (To me they already started to lose the concept with Ark 4.) On the other hand it still seems odd to declare the end of a series in this way so I’m not certain the “end” refers to the Arks…


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## muziksculp (Dec 21, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> On the other hand it still seems odd to declare the end of a series in this way so I’m not certain the “end” refers to the Arks…


That's what I think so too. There is something else we are missing, maybe we will get surprised. 

We shall know in less than an hour from now.


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## Jose7822 (Dec 21, 2021)

I think the end means the end of Kontakt, as was mentioned. At least that was my first thought too when I read it.


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## easyrider (Dec 21, 2021)

Yeah End of Kontakt I reckon.


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## Jose7822 (Dec 21, 2021)

OK, so I was wrong. It was actually the end of the Metropolis Arc series.


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## aeliron (Dec 21, 2021)

Lode_Runner said:


>


Who is this


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## gussunkri (Dec 21, 2021)

aeliron said:


> Who is this


A doctor. Or, specifically, _the _Doctor.


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## Composer 2021 (Dec 21, 2021)

Where are the audio demos for the individual instruments? I swear they were there when I first clicked on the MA5 page and now they are not showing up.


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## aeliron (Dec 21, 2021)

gussunkri said:


> A doctor. Or, specifically, _the _Doctor.


Sorry, couldn’t resist 😜


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## Geoff Grace (Dec 21, 2021)

It seems that the end of an era may have referred to the end of Ark releases after all. From the website:



Orchestral Tools said:


> This final chapter is a truly grand finale: Metropolis Ark 5 completes the Metropolis Ark orchestral series, adding powerful tools for delivering intense, dramatic moments fast. This unique orchestra is a detailed toolkit for any kind of cinematic trailers and powerful music: Construct epic, Wagnerian themes, build tension with swells and sustains, and add thrills with dramatic stabs, rips, and glissandos. Detail and realism combine with an epic musical vision to give you an arsenal of inspiration for trailers, scores, underscoring, and grand musical statements.



Best,

Geoff


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## muziksculp (Dec 21, 2021)

Hi @OrchestralTools ,

Congratulations on the release of the final chapter of your Metropolis Ark Series, Metropolis ARK 5.

I loved your presentation, and the sounds of MA 5 are fantastic. I would even say the most useful for me. Purchased it without any hesitation. Thank You 

Now if you can update your awesome Berlin Main Orchestra Libraries to get them more refined, and fix some of the issues reported, that would be so great. Love your Berlin Main Orch. Libraries. With a little more TLC from your side, they will shine even more, and make many users even happier.

Wish you all at OT Happy Holiday Season, and a Happy New Year ! 🎅🎄✨

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## OrchestralTools (Dec 21, 2021)

Thanks so much to everyone who joined us! We're thrilled to finally release Metropolis Ark 5 out into the world. 

For those of you who missed the premiere event, you can watch the whole thing at the link below!


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## OrchestralTools (Dec 21, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @OrchestralTools ,
> 
> Congratulations on the release of the final chapter of your Metropolis Ark Series, Metropolis ARK 5.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the lovely feedback & happy holidays right back to you. For tonight we're totally focused on MA5 but those updates are coming!


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## iMovieShout (Dec 21, 2021)

Would anyone happen to know why the OT website does not accept UK VAT numbers? I've tried with and without the 'GB' but still it won't accept it. @OrchestralTools


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## richhickey (Dec 21, 2021)

PSA - if you've got Ark 1-4 and activate them all for Sine you'll get a discount price on completing the Ark bundle that's less than the Ark 5 promo price.


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## JyTy (Dec 21, 2021)

Oooo I'm so getting this bundle!!! Congrats on another amazing release @OrchestralTools!


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 21, 2021)

jpb007.uk said:


> Would anyone happen to know why the OT website does not accept UK VAT numbers? I've tried with and without the 'GB' but still it won't accept it. @OrchestralTools


Because we are no longer in the EU.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 21, 2021)

Already having Ark 1 and 3, the upgrade bundle came out to be about $230 for each additional library. Complete no brainer.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 21, 2021)

For anyone interested in the bundle deal, I did a short demo for Metropolis Ark 2:


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## iMovieShout (Dec 21, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Because we are no longer in the EU.


Thanks. Strange that of all the EU based vendors and studios that it seems to be only the OT that no longer accepts a UK VAT number. Just purchased a bunch of stuff from others guys in Germany and Austria without having to pay VAT. Weird I guess !!


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 21, 2021)

jpb007.uk said:


> Thanks. Strange that of all the EU based vendors and studios that it seems to be only the OT that no longer accepts a UK VAT number. Just purchased a bunch of stuff from others guys in Germany and Austria without having to pay VAT. Weird I guess !!


I think it depends on how assiduous the vendor is. There are some who still accept UK VAT numbers, but I think they are not supposed to....

Edit: I think Best Service don't defray the VAT either....


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## iMovieShout (Dec 21, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> Already having Ark 1 and 3, the upgrade bundle came out to be about $230 for each additional library. Complete no brainer.


199.73 Euros (including VAT) if you have the first 4 ARKs


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## Mike Fox (Dec 21, 2021)

jpb007.uk said:


> 199.73 Euros (including VAT) if you have the first 4 ARKs


Yeah! That bundle deal is just too good to pass on.


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 21, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> Yeah! That bundle deal is just too good to pass on.


I am afraid I must admit that my halo (awarded for restraint on BF) has slipped a little....


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## davidson (Dec 21, 2021)

So owning the other 4 arks on kontakt, I figured I'd give sine another chance and bought 5. Absolutely *hating* the sine player still. Is it this unresponsive on everyone elses machines? Feels like a slow web app.


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## Evans (Dec 21, 2021)

davidson said:


> So owning the other 4 arks on kontakt, I figured I'd give sine another chance and bought 5. Absolutely *hating* the sine player still. Is it this unresponsive on everyone elses machines? Feels like a slow web app.


For the MyLicenses screen and downloads? Yes, absolutely. Within an instrument's performance area, no, it's pretty snappy for me.


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 21, 2021)

davidson said:


> So owning the other 4 arks on kontakt, I figured I'd give sine another chance and bought 5. Absolutely *hating* the sine player still. Is it this unresponsive on everyone elses machines? Feels like a slow web app.


I'm no fan of Sine either, but I bet the servers are being absolutely slaughtered this evening, with effectively three new libraries being launched, two of which are free to existing owners.....


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## zwhita (Dec 21, 2021)

So for those of us still using Windows 7 and Kontakt, there is no bundle price?


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 21, 2021)

zwhita said:


> So for those of us still using Windows 7 and Kontakt, there is no bundle price?



Yes there is. You need to activate your existing Ark 1-4 licences on the sine player or OT website. Then you will get bundle pricing. Or do you mean that you can't run Sine on your system ?


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## zwhita (Dec 21, 2021)

Assuming I can't run SINE on Win7 and I do not have any ARK products


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 21, 2021)

zwhita said:


> Assuming I can't run SINE on Win7 and I do not have any ARK products



Then you are totally stuffed - but why not upgrade to Windows 10 - it's pretty good by all accounts.....but if you want Kontakt versions then you are SOOL......


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## davidson (Dec 21, 2021)

Evans said:


> For the MyLicenses screen and downloads? Yes, absolutely. Within an instrument's performance area, no, it's pretty snappy for me.


Yeah, those are some of the most unresponsive 'buttons', as well as the store. Why no hover states on them? Also, I kept thinking the whole thing had just crashed. It takes an age to load a preset too. Like a 39mb patch takes 3 or 4 seconds which is instant on kontakt, and dont get me started on the black-on-black windows explorer style UI...

Does anyone want to buy a barely used copy of ark 5?


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## easyrider (Dec 21, 2021)

zwhita said:


> Assuming I can't run SINE on Win7 and I do not have any ARK products


Why on earth are you running Windows 7 and even connected to the internet?


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## zwhita (Dec 21, 2021)

Win7 machine stays offline. Thanks for the info.


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 21, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Why on earth are you running Windows 7 and even connected to the internet?


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## davidson (Dec 21, 2021)

Aaaaaaannnnd it just hard crashed when loading a preset.


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## MartinH. (Dec 21, 2021)

davidson said:


> So owning the other 4 arks on kontakt, I figured I'd give sine another chance and bought 5. Absolutely *hating* the sine player still. Is it this unresponsive on everyone elses machines? Feels like a slow web app.


Since you can't resell your license, I would ask them to give you a refund. It's rare, but I think I've seen it happen even from OT, even though officially there are no refunds. But you'll have to ask right away I think, not in a week or later. At the very least it sends a signal that customers care about stability and responsiveness of their sampleplayers.

If you ever get curios again how far Sine has progressed, there are free libraries for it and also you might be eligable for a free Sine license for some of your other Metropolis Ark libraries.


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## easyrider (Dec 21, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


>



It’s just daft…


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## nolotrippen (Dec 21, 2021)

Mr Sakitumi said:


>


Stop that! I'm getting car sick.


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## MartinH. (Dec 21, 2021)

Does anyone know how I enter a EU VAT number in my OT account? @OrchestralTools maybe? I can't click on the EU VAT No. field, I can't edit anything next to it, and when I click on "edit" in Account Settings, there is no VAT No. field anymore among my Billing address.


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 21, 2021)

What country are you in ?


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## MartinH. (Dec 21, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> What country are you in ?


Germany


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 21, 2021)

Did you put the country code first ? 

In any case, if you are in the same country as the vendor, I thought you had to pay the VAT and claim it back....


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## iMovieShout (Dec 21, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Does anyone know how I enter a EU VAT number in my OT account? @OrchestralTools maybe? I can't click on the EU VAT No. field, I can't edit anything next to it, and when I click on "edit" in Account Settings, there is no VAT No. field anymore among my Billing address.


You first need to click on the small 'edit' button on the top right of the screen that displays your personal details. This will then allow you to edit.


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## MartinH. (Dec 21, 2021)

jpb007.uk said:


> You first need to click on the small 'edit' button on the top right of the screen that displays your personal details. This will then allow you to edit.


It allows me to edit my address, but the VAT No. field vanishes when I click that button. Where exactly is it located for you?


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## MartinH. (Dec 21, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Did you put the country code first ?


I can't input anything in the first place, there is no VAT field I could edit.



Michael Antrum said:


> In any case, if you are in the same country as the vendor, I thought you had to pay the VAT and claim it back....


It can be done that way but it should also be possible to not pay it in the first place as far as I know (really not sure though), and my tax accountant said ideally I should have it on every invoice I get, so I should enter it wherever possible.


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## filipjonathan (Dec 21, 2021)

Does anyone know if and when the Orchestral string runs are coming to SINE?


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## FrozenIcicle (Dec 21, 2021)

@OrchestralTools I noticed Ark 1+2 do not have sinearc compressed. Will this be in a future update? Would love to save sample space


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## KEM (Dec 21, 2021)

What’s a VAT?


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## MartinH. (Dec 21, 2021)

KEM said:


> What’s a VAT?


*V*alue *a*dded *t*ax. It's a percentage that gets added to the price at checkout if the store didn't already display prices including the tax (as they should but often don't).

E.g. a 1000,- Euro price would be raised to 1190,- for me when buying something from OT.

EU countries have trade agreements that would allow you to buy something in another EU country without paying VAT. To take advantage of that you need a VAT No which you only get when you're registered as a business/freelancer. 
Hope that was reasonably accurate, no guarantuee though. German tax stuff is wickedly complicated and I don't know too much about it on EU or international level.


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## Getsumen (Dec 21, 2021)

FrozenIcicle said:


> @OrchestralTools I noticed Ark 1+2 do not have sinearc compressed. Will this be in a future update? Would love to save sample space


Probably just a visual error on the bundle tab. 






The individual MA1 and 2 pages show the correct sizes.


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## KEM (Dec 21, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> *V*alue *a*dded *t*ax. It's a percentage that gets added to the price at checkout if the store didn't already display prices including the tax (as they should but often don't).
> 
> E.g. a 1000,- Euro price would be raised to 1190,- for me when buying something from OT.



I just looked it up and saw that the US doesn’t do that, so that’d make sense as to why I had no idea what it is


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 21, 2021)

KEM said:


> I just looked it up and saw that the US doesn’t do that, so that’d make sense as to why I had no idea what it is



It's a bit like sales tax in the US. 

Only much, much higher.....


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## Camus (Dec 21, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Does anyone know how I enter a EU VAT number in my OT account? @OrchestralTools maybe? I can't click on the EU VAT No. field, I can't edit anything next to it, and when I click on "edit" in Account Settings, there is no VAT No. field anymore among my Billing address.


Are you located in germany? Then you canˋ t reduce the Taxi. So the buttonś not working


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## MartinH. (Dec 21, 2021)

Camus said:


> Are you located in germany? Then you canˋ t reduce the Taxi. So the buttonś not working



Yes, located in Germany. It's possible, but I tried to change the country in my address to Belgium but there is still no VAT No. field that I could edit.


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## KEM (Dec 21, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> It's a bit like sales tax in the US.
> 
> Only much, much higher.....



Yeah that’s why I was questioning what it was, a few people have been saying that it was making their purchases almost up to the base price and almost negating the discount entirely which just sounds crazy to me!!


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## FrozenIcicle (Dec 21, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Probably just a visual error on the bundle tab.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thought so cause lower it had a smaller size. How good is this compression, nearly 50% reduction!

Size756 GB of samples (317 GB SINEarc compressed)


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## Flyo (Dec 21, 2021)

573,47 € +VAT For me, already having Ark 1&2. Is that right?


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## axb312 (Dec 21, 2021)

@OrchestralTools How many RRs do the shorts master patches have?


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## Frederick (Dec 21, 2021)

I've picked up the Arks bundle, which meant 5 whole new libraries in my case. I'm very excited to try them out in combination with the Berlins Series. I always had my eye on them, especially Ark 2. It has some very nice colours!  

Thank you @OrchestralTools for making the series and for the great introduction price!


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## andyhy (Dec 22, 2021)

Frederick said:


> I've picked up the Arks bundle, which meant 5 whole new libraries in my case. I'm very excited to try them out in combination with the Berlins Series. I always had my eye on them, especially Ark 2. It has some very nice colours!
> 
> Thank you @OrchestralTools for making the series and for the great introduction price!


That's good to hear. I have the same decision to make having completed the Berlin Series only recently by buying Berlin Strings and Berlin Percussion. I'm asking myself whether I can justify buying the Arks bundle as well even at such a major discount. It feels like a bit of a duplication but I know the multis aspect of Arks makes them distinct from the Berlin Series. Both are recorded in Teldex so I assume they mix well when you need to supplement one with the other. Do you mind me asking what convinced you it was worth the expense? Are you a hobbyist like me or will you use the Arks professionally?


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## Frederick (Dec 22, 2021)

andyhy said:


> Do you mind me asking what convinced you it was worth the expense? Are you a hobbyist like me or will you use the Arks professionally?


I'm a hobbyist and certainly no expert. My reasons:

The Arks have a lot of instruments and ensemble sizes that are not in the mains.
The intention of each Ark is different. E.g. Ark 1 doesn't have patches below mf as far as I know. People around these parts have been saying for ages no lib does loud better than Ark 1. Ark 2 goes low, but also can be quiet. Ark 3 has a lot of percussion that isn't in the main percussion library. Etc. Always best to have recordings that fit your purpose.
There are no choirs in the mains.
I already owned Modus, which I like a lot, and IMO it's similar to the Arks.
I love the sound of Ark 2.
Articulations not in the mains. E.g.: power legato (Ark 4).
I wasn't worried about overlap. Just that some of the Arks may not fit the music I like to make mockups of. I was also worried yesterday that Ark 5 would turn out to be mainly stings, risers and other trailer effects, which I was glad to find out isn't the case at all. Given the attractive pricing for this much content it was an instant buy for me.


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## andyhy (Dec 22, 2021)

Frederick said:


> I'm a hobbyist and certainly no expert. My reasons:
> 
> The Arks have a lot of instruments and ensemble sizes that are not in the mains.
> The intention of each Ark is different. E.g. Ark 1 doesn't have patches below mf as far as I know. People around these parts have been saying for ages no lib does loud better than Ark 1. Ark 2 goes low but but also can be quiet. Ark 3 has a lot of percussion that isn't in the main percussion library. Etc.
> ...


That's very helpful thank you. In that case I think I will take the plunge and buy the Ark bundle assuming I can convince my wife he he. It will probably be my last major purchase as I already have a pretty good range of libraries for the mockups I like to do. Today I watched a review of Arks 1 to 4 and something appeals to me about each one. The epic cinematic big bang of Ark 1 is a must and Ark 4 also impresses me. Arks 2 and 3 I think I can get value out of but maybe not so often. Like you suggest Ark 5 is a nice surprise. I like the combinations of instruments OT has created in 5.


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## Frederick (Dec 22, 2021)

andyhy said:


> It will probably be my last major purchase as I already have a pretty good range of libraries for the mockups I like to do.


That's exactly the same situation I'm in!


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## szczaw (Dec 22, 2021)

Shorts with 8 dynamic layers and velocity controlled note length (if I remember correctly) are super shorts.


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## stargazer (Dec 22, 2021)

Flyo said:


> 573,47 € +VAT For me, already having Ark 1&2. Is that right?


Seems right!
I have Ark 1-4 and was a bit confused by the upgrade price 573,47 € +VAT compared to the intro at 249 € +VAT.
But after activating my kontakt licenses to Sine the upgrade price is 166,44 € + VAT.
So, to answer your question - the first (573,47 €) price was with Ark 1 and 2 registered.


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## d4vec4rter (Dec 22, 2021)

Why do they keep doing this to me! I've just bought LASS 3 and now OT bring out Ark 5 with a ridiculously good bundle offer for the whole set. I've got Arks 1 & 2 and the price for the complete set works out at 191 € each for the other 3 (less the VAT). Hard to see they'll be any cheaper than that in the near future after this offer so... oh dear!... that's the credit card maxed out (and my SSD).


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## LudovicVDP (Dec 22, 2021)

Damn, This is hard.
I don't have any Ark yet... And that 999EUR price is really a bargain. BUT that VAT (21% here) is killing it and I really can't justify to spend 1210 eur like this. That's still a lot of money.

Damn...
I might take advantage of the intro price on Ark5 though...


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## d4vec4rter (Dec 22, 2021)

LudovicVDP said:


> Damn, This is hard.
> I don't have any Ark yet... And that 999EUR price is really a bargain. BUT that VAT (21% here) is killing it and I really can't justify to spend 1210 eur like this. That's still a lot of money.
> 
> Damn...
> I might take advantage of the intro price on Ark5 though...


The VAT is certainly a big hit. The problem is, you have to pay that whatever and I'd rather pay 20% on the current offer than on the regular price.


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## LudovicVDP (Dec 22, 2021)

d4vec4rter said:


> The VAT is certainly a big hit. The problem is, you have to pay that whatever and I'd rather pay 20% on the current offer than on the regular price.


That's really true. That's why it hurts... I'd love to take advantage of that bundle price.


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## Sunny Schramm (Dec 22, 2021)

d4vec4rter said:


> Why do they keep doing this to me! I've just bought LASS 3 and now OT bring out Ark 5 with a ridiculously good bundle offer for the whole set. I've got Arks 1 & 2 and the price for the complete set works out at 191 € each for the other 3 (less the VAT). Hard to see they'll be any cheaper than that in the near future after this offer so... oh dear!... that's the credit card maxed out (and my SSD).


I was heavily tempted but I re-watched a lot of walkthrough-videos and decide to skip this amazing deal. I own Ark 1+3 and got all the heavy stuff I want. Ark 2 is (for me) still too loud and not deep enough. From Ark 4 I really like and love the sound of the separated strings (high, mid , low - not the String Orchestra) but I can achieve this sound with the Berlin First Chairs and other Libraries. Ark 5 could be a good complementation for Ark 1 and Ark 3. It sounds very good and feels like a fast and easy to play tool for sketching with the blend-instruments, etc. - like the "symphobia"-series. But in the end the bundle will be about 700€ incl. VAT for me - and for that it does not give me enough...or better: I only want some instruments which I still can buy a la carte in the future. The "G.A.S."-Maker and the Collector in me wants the bundle - but my mind is stronger this time...


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## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 22, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> Ark 2 is (for me) still too loud and not deep enough.



View attachment Ark 2 deep & soft.mp3


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## d4vec4rter (Dec 22, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> I was heavily tempted but I re-watched a lot of walkthrough-videos and decide to skip this amazing deal. I own Ark 1+3 and got all the heavy stuff I want. Ark 2 is (for me) still too loud and not deep enough. From Ark 4 I really like and love the sound of the separated strings (high, mid , low - not the String Orchestra) but I can achieve this sound with the Berlin First Chairs and other Libraries. Ark 5 could be a good complementation for Ark 1 and Ark 3. It sounds very good and feels like a fast and easy to play tool for sketching with the blend-instruments, etc. - like the "symphobia"-series. But in the end the bundle will be about 700€ incl. VAT for me - and for that it does not give me enough...or better: I only want some instruments which I still can buy a la carte in the future. The "G.A.S."-Maker and the Collector in me wants the bundle - but my mind is stronger this time...


I really wish mine had been. Ah well... I've got them all now. I don't have any of the other OT series except Tallinn so there were no real worries about overlap.


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## Sunny Schramm (Dec 22, 2021)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> View attachment Ark 2 deep & soft.mp3


Just not my type of "deep"-sound  

Maybe its the low and deep in combination with the teldex-stage I dont like.


----------



## Jotto (Dec 22, 2021)

The price is not 999€ its 20% more and that is a lot of money. Not buying anything from OT until they stop with this fake pricing.


----------



## tim727 (Dec 22, 2021)

Jotto said:


> The price is not 999€ its 20% more and that is a lot of money. Not buying anything from OT until they stop with this fake pricing.


What do you mean by "fake" pricing?


----------



## d4vec4rter (Dec 22, 2021)

Jotto said:


> The price is not 999€ its 20% more and that is a lot of money. Not buying anything from OT until they stop with this fake pricing.


If anything, it's a more accurate way of pricing because different countries will have different rates of VAT. There's nothing "fake" about it.


----------



## tim727 (Dec 22, 2021)

d4vec4rter said:


> If anything, it's a more accurate way of pricing because different countries will have different rates of VAT. There's nothing "fake" about it.


Oh that thing. It confuses me why anyone is even upset about that? It just doesn't mention VAT in the actual ads but it does on the individual pages for each respective instrument. Not sure how that's "fake" pricing.


----------



## davidson (Dec 22, 2021)

No multis in ark 5? What's happened regards the multis in 3 and 4 on sine?


----------



## davidson (Dec 22, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Since you can't resell your license, I would ask them to give you a refund. It's rare, but I think I've seen it happen even from OT, even though officially there are no refunds. But you'll have to ask right away I think, not in a week or later. At the very least it sends a signal that customers care about stability and responsiveness of their sampleplayers.
> 
> If you ever get curios again how far Sine has progressed, there are free libraries for it and also you might be eligable for a free Sine license for some of your other Metropolis Ark libraries.


I'll test more over the next day or two and see how it behaves in a daw (it was in standalone when it crashed).


----------



## LudovicVDP (Dec 22, 2021)

Definitely not a fake pricing. It always shows "+VAT"

But I agree on the psychological effect this has.
Because at first you see a price and you make up your mind about it (if yes or no).
and THEN, it's like "Oh wait...." :-/


----------



## Sunny Schramm (Dec 22, 2021)

davidson said:


> No multis in ark 5? What's happened regards the multis in 3 and 4 on sine?


no multis in the whole sine-series of ark so far :-(

Correct me if I´m blind


----------



## davidson (Dec 22, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> no multis in the whole sine-series of ark so far :-(


Has there been any word from OT about adding them to sine in the future?


----------



## Sunny Schramm (Dec 22, 2021)

davidson said:


> Has there been any word from OT about adding them to sine in the future?


not to my ears. "maybe" its not possible with current version of sine  you can do your own multis and safe them to a folder. should not be that hard to get the multis in sine for OT.


----------



## davidson (Dec 22, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> not to my ears. "maybe" its not possible with current version of sine  you can do your own multis and safe them to a folder. should not be that hard to get the multis in sine for OT.


Strange, I thought sine had a stacking feature so multis would be even simpler than kontakt? They certainly don't make it easy to fall in love with this software.


----------



## Mr Sakitumi (Dec 22, 2021)

Awesome demo and walkthrough @David Kudell . Learned a lot from your explanations.
Your compositions get more detailed and harmonically expansive each time.
Really captured that 'Avengers' super hero type theme...super catchy too!
well done @OrchestralTools on the release of MA5!


----------



## AllanH (Dec 22, 2021)

I am going to register my Kontakt Ark serials and see what the pricing looks like.


----------



## Jotto (Dec 22, 2021)

d4vec4rter said:


> If anything, it's a more accurate way of pricing because different countries will have different rates of VAT. There's nothing "fake" about it.


Yes it is. They want to give the impression that its cheaper than it really is.


----------



## davidson (Dec 22, 2021)

Whilst I'm in full-on sine rant mode, why is it so difficult to see the mod wheel position? Absolutely tiny graphics along with black on black on black on black...Please give your UX person a gold star from me.

Also, is there no purge feature in sine?

Also x 2, is there no feedback in relation to current played velocity level or cc dynamic position like there is in the kontakt versions ala the 'big knob'?


----------



## Francisco Lamolda (Dec 22, 2021)

davidson said:


> Also, is there no purge feature in sine?


There is. It's on the bottom right in the Main page. It is global, though. If you press one single note, everything is loaded.


----------



## davidson (Dec 22, 2021)

Francisco Lamolda said:


> There is. It's on the bottom right in the Main page. It is global, though. If you press one single note, everything is loaded.


I'm confused, so it doesn't unload everything then load in the notes as they're needed, similar to kontakt? If not, what's the use of the feature?!


----------



## Francisco Lamolda (Dec 22, 2021)

davidson said:


> I'm confused, so it doesn't unload everything then load in the notes as they're needed, similar to kontakt? If not, what's the use of the feature?!


When you purge the samples, it's the same as kontakt. But while in kontakt the samples are loaded only when they sound (so the samples that doesn't sound are not loaded); in the SINE once you press one key, every sample is loaded.


----------



## David Kudell (Dec 22, 2021)

Mr Sakitumi said:


> Awesome demo and walkthrough @David Kudell . Learned a lot from your explanations.
> Your compositions get more detailed and harmonically expansive each time.
> Really captured that 'Avengers' super hero type theme...super catchy too!
> well done @OrchestralTools on the release of MA5!



Thanks I’m glad it was helpful! Doing these are helpful for me as well to learn all the articulations that come with the library.


----------



## Breaker (Dec 22, 2021)

Francisco Lamolda said:


> When you purge the samples, it's the same as kontakt. But while in kontakt the samples are loaded only when they sound (so the samples that doesn't sound are not loaded); in the SINE once you press one key, every sample is loaded.


ie. useless


----------



## Robo Rivard (Dec 22, 2021)

Are the audio demos 100% Ark 5, or they include the previous libraries?


----------



## Kevperry777 (Dec 22, 2021)

szczaw said:


> Shorts with 8 dynamic layers and velocity controlled note length (if I remember correctly) are super shorts.


And I think they sound great! Seem to have some extra magic on them and really fit in easily.


----------



## Braveheart (Dec 22, 2021)

Jotto said:


> The price is not 999€ its 20% more and that is a lot of money. Not buying anything from OT until they stop with this fake pricing.


You talk like Europe is the center of the world. The price is a worldwide price. I have no concern for VAT as I live in another continent.


----------



## PaulieDC (Dec 22, 2021)

This may have been mentioned previously but I just discovered if anyone has the EDU discount the price for the bundle is 899 Euros (and there's a decent .89 conversion rate to USD right now, was much lower in the summer). OT, you are killing us, all 5 arks for under a grand, EDU or not!


----------



## PaulieDC (Dec 22, 2021)

Braveheart said:


> You talk like Europe is the center of the world. The price is a worldwide price. I have no concern for VAT as I live in another continent.


Right, it's really more about the country, not OT. If the USA got its financial act together a bit better, a dollar would equal a Euro and the price would simply be $999.


----------



## davidson (Dec 22, 2021)

Breaker said:


> ie. useless


Exactly, that's simply load or unload all samples as far as I'm concerned. To purge is to delete whatever it is that's undesirable or not needed.

@Francisco Lamolda I know this isn't you who's made that decision so sorry if it sounds like I'm ranting at you and thanks for clarifying!


----------



## lucky909091 (Dec 22, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Yes, located in Germany. It's possible, but I tried to change the country in my address to Belgium but there is still no VAT No. field that I could edit.


You as a German resident pay the German VAT (19 %) additionally. Afterwards in your monthly VAT return (Umsatzsteuervoranmeldung) you will get it back from the Tax Office (Finanzamt).
No real problem.


----------



## ansthenia (Dec 22, 2021)

Great bundle, still going to be a pass for me though, as the only Ark I really, really want is Ark 1, but no individual sale.


----------



## Fever Phoenix (Dec 22, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> no multis in the whole sine-series of ark so far :-(
> 
> Correct me if I´m blind


that is a huge downside, compared to the Kontakt versions!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (Dec 22, 2021)

wow, the main feature of the trills (being accessible by just holding the notes you want - minor, major, fifths etc) seems to be gone in Sine!!

When loading the trills of the MA4 mid strings I'm only finding a slider for chosing the different types.
That's a step many years back! It's even standard in other libraries now to have them trigger via key-combos. That way it also gets really difficult to do lovely harmonizations with different trill types right on the keys.


----------



## tim727 (Dec 22, 2021)

DarkestShadow said:


> wow, the main feature of the trills (being accessible by just holding the notes you want - minor, major, fifths etc) seems to be gone in Sine!!
> 
> When loading the trills of the MA4 mid strings I'm only finding a slider for chosing the different types.
> That's a step many years back! It's even standard in other libraries now to have them trigger via key-combos. That way it also gets really difficult to do lovely harmonizations with different trill types right on the keys.


Can you post a screenshot by any chance of what it looks like? I'm getting Ark 4 but still deciding whether to do Kontakt or SINE so I'm very curious about this change.


----------



## Gensaii (Dec 23, 2021)

As a Metropolis Arks newbie, why is the lack of multis such a huge deal breaker if you can just build them yourself if I understood correctly? Is it just for the time saving factor?


----------



## PaulieDC (Dec 23, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> So, the secret is out. Metropolis Ark 5 is the end of an era!
> 
> A big thank you to everyone who joined us for the Premiere. Putting it together was a lot of fun, and we really enjoyed some of your speculation on what we were up to (kudos to those who guessed correctly!).
> 
> ...


You win. Just bought it. Previews of all of the instruments on your site is GREAT, it's what made the decision.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (Dec 23, 2021)

tim727 said:


> Can you post a screenshot by any chance of what it looks like? I'm getting Ark 4 but still deciding whether to do Kontakt or SINE so I'm very curious about this change.








Nothing on the "poly" page either


----------



## tim727 (Dec 23, 2021)

DarkestShadow said:


> Nothing on the "poly" page either


Oh wow, that's unfortunate. At least the overall functionality still seems to be there ... but yeah this is way less playable.

Edit: Definitely less visually appealing as well, but that's of course secondary to playability.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Dec 23, 2021)

Hi all - the official walkthrough for Metropolis Ark 5 is out now!


----------



## Vlzmusic (Dec 23, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi all - the official walkthrough for Metropolis Ark 5 is out now!



Out now? Then what the hell was I watching 10 times over last night?


----------



## easyrider (Dec 23, 2021)

With EDU and VAT added and conversion rate to £ these work out to £182 each….

🤯


----------



## stixman (Dec 23, 2021)

I cannot enter serial numbers into Sine to find out the cost...is this a known problem?
I have 1&2 registered in Sine i want to add MA3 but i get error too many failed attempts!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 23, 2021)

Is it possible to purchase the Kontakt versions and still get the bundle price?


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Is it possible to purchase the Kontakt versions and still get the bundle price?


Unfortunately, no.


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

tim727 said:


> Can you post a screenshot by any chance of what it looks like? I'm getting Ark 4 but still deciding whether to do Kontakt or SINE so I'm very curious about this change.


I’d definitely go with the Kontakt version.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 23, 2021)

I know, it's far more expensive then the Sine Bundle price, but at NI, they still have the Ark bundles 1+2 and 3+4 each for 999,- Euro, which is including Vat.








METROPOLIS ARK 3 & 4


Create powerful articulations, effects, and rhythms with two instruments showcasing the orchestral extremes of cinematic sound.




www.native-instruments.com


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

tim727 said:


> Can you post a screenshot by any chance of what it looks like? I'm getting Ark 4 but still deciding whether to do Kontakt or SINE so I'm very curious about this change.


On second thought, If OT fixed the choirs for SINE but not for Kontakt?....

Can anyone confirm if the Kontakt choirs are working as they should?


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

Alright, so I just tested the Mixed Choir staccato shouts from Ark 4.

Uh...what’s up with this range???


----------



## easyrider (Dec 23, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> Alright, so I just tested the Mixed Choir staccato shouts from Ark 4.
> 
> Uh...what’s up with this range???


Is that Kontakt or sine?

Sounds crap….


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Is that Kontakt or sine?
> 
> Sounds crap….


SINE


----------



## easyrider (Dec 23, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> SINE


🤢


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 23, 2021)

Ive been out of the loop w ark. 

Can someone give a quick run down of the differences between all five if u woudnt mind? Im checking online but they all seem to have the same/similar type of articulations. 

Only ark3 and 4 makes sense but the others seems to cover very simialr ground. 

Ark1 The monumental orchestra
Ark2 Orchestra of the deep
Ark3 Unique percussive orchestra
Ark4 Small sections and special articulations
Ark5 Cinematic trailer toolkit


----------



## Jose7822 (Dec 23, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> Alright, so I just tested the Mixed Choir staccato shouts from Ark 4.
> 
> Uh...what’s up with this range???



What the heck did I just listened to? LOL


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> Ive been out of the loop w ark.
> 
> Can someone give a quick run down of the differences between all five if u woudnt mind? Im checking online but they all seem to have the same/similar type of articulations.
> 
> ...


Not a quick rundown, but one of the better videos showcasing the differences.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 23, 2021)

Jose7822 said:


> What the heck did I just listened to? LOL


Micky Mouse 😂


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 23, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> Ive been out of the loop w ark.
> 
> Can someone give a quick run down of the differences between all five if u woudnt mind? Im checking online but they all seem to have the same/similar type of articulations.
> 
> ...


1. mf-ff, larger sections. In my opinion, the best one.
2. p-mp orch, some interesting warm brass choices.
3. f-ff, _aggressive_ orch shorts, lots of epic perc. Only one with no choir and no longs.
4. p-ff, chamber-sized strings, blended instruments combinations.

To some extent, they all have a grab bag of stuff that makes them hard to classify. Ex. Ark2 has lots of waterharp, hand percussion, metals, and (I think) a few synth sounds, a harmonium, a children's choir patch. Ark3 has aleatoric stabs and reps patches.

Be warned that the section sizes and panning are not consistent. Cellos and Bass tend to be baked together in octaves.


----------



## DJiLAND (Dec 23, 2021)

I just got a holiday voucher for 25 euros from OT and it says the expiration date is Jan 8, 2020, Jan 8, 2021. LOL
Anyway, that's good. I'll use this to complete the last bundle with Metropolis 5. But I need a time machine.


----------



## Jose7822 (Dec 23, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Micky Mouse 😂



More like the Chipmunks 😂


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 23, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> Alright, so I just tested the Mixed Choir staccato shouts from Ark 4.
> 
> Uh...what’s up with this range???



In some Ark1 Kontakt patches the playable range can be extended beyond the sampled range, and the last sample gets stretched accross the last octave. That's what this sounds like to me. It should highlight the keys in the Kontakt keyboard in yellow instead of blue I think.


----------



## Jose7822 (Dec 23, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> In some Ark1 Kontakt patches the playable range can be extended beyond the sampled range, and the last sample gets stretched accross the last octave. That's what this sounds like to me. It should highlight the keys in the Kontakt keyboard in yellow instead of blue I think.



That’s on SINE though.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 23, 2021)

Jose7822 said:


> That’s on SINE though.


Yeah, but they ported bugs from the kontakt version over to the sine versions, so why not also stretched samples to extend the playable range?

Technically it's even a feature, not a bug. You're not supposed to play those notes if you want realism, normally that range would just not be playable. It's optional. So for once I can't complain.


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> In some Ark1 Kontakt patches the playable range can be extended beyond the sampled range, and the last sample gets stretched accross the last octave. That's what this sounds like to me. It should highlight the keys in the Kontakt keyboard in yellow instead of blue I think.


The choirs in Ark 1 can at least do a full octave before sounding unnatural.

These choirs sound like they can do about half that before the Mickey Mouse effect kicks in.

Not to mention that the men and women are singing different syllables on this patch, so It's pretty much useless for me.

I am curious what the Ark 4 combined choirs patch sounds like in Kontakt.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 23, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> The choirs in Ark 1 can at least do a full octave before sounding unnatural.
> 
> These choirs sound like they can do about half that before the Mickey Mouse effect kicks in.
> 
> ...


Wait, so that's the WHOLE range of that choir patch? If so... lol.


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Wait, so that's the WHOLE range of that choir patch? If so... lol.


For the women, yes. The men portion of the patch seems to be ok.


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Wait, so that's the WHOLE range of that choir patch? If so... lol.



View attachment choirs.mp4


This is the full range for the women in the combined patch.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 23, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> View attachment choirs.mp4
> 
> 
> This is the full range for the women in the combined patch.


And Kontakt doesn’t sound like that?

I’m about to drop £177 for each of them in the bundle….


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 23, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> View attachment choirs.mp4
> 
> 
> This is the full range for the women in the combined patch.


Sounds fine to me. Not sure what your problem is. Isn't this how women folk sound in their upper registers?


----------



## Braveheart (Dec 23, 2021)

DJiLAND said:


> I just got a holiday voucher for 25 euros from OT and it says the expiration date is Jan 8, 2020, Jan 8, 2021. LOL
> Anyway, that's good. I'll use this to complete the last bundle with Metropolis 5. But I need a time machine.


Not working on items on dale, so I guess it won’t work on the bundle


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Sounds fine to me. Not sure what your problem is. Isn't this how women folk sound in their upper registers?


Nope. Check out the difference here. I've got the combined/mixed patch loaded up with the individual womens patch.

There seems to be some sort of pitch shifting effect going on in the combined patch.



View attachment choirs2.mp4


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

It’s also weird that the women start so high in the range in that combined patch, especially when the men start much lower.


----------



## stixman (Dec 23, 2021)

I cannot enter serial numbers into Sine to find out the cost...is this a known problem?
wasted too much time already...so this is the great sine!
Kontakt i had no problems!


----------



## Breaker (Dec 23, 2021)

Same thing happens in Kontakt as well. And as women and mixed choirs seem to be using the same samples I don't understand why one of them sounds OK and one them doesn't.
And they are sampled up to A4 (per whole step) so no reason for those artifacts in that range.

I have never really understood the point of that mixed choir, it's basically a multi with less control.


----------



## AllanH (Dec 23, 2021)

stixman said:


> I cannot enter serial numbers into Sine to find out the cost...is this a known problem?


I entered my Kontakt serials on the website. This worked fine.


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

Breaker said:


> Same thing happens in Kontakt as well. And as women and mixed choirs seem to be using the same samples I don't understand why one of them sounds OK and one them doesn't.
> And they are sampled up to A4 (per whole step) so no reason for those artifacts in that range.
> 
> I have never really understood the point of that mixed choir, it's basically a multi with less control.


For sure. There definitely shouldn't be any artifacts in that range.

Here's another example. I tried to make the issue more apparent by just playing a couple of single notes and matching the mics.

View attachment women choirs2.mp4


----------



## Jose7822 (Dec 23, 2021)

Yeah, that sounds wack, lol. It’s gotta be a bug.


----------



## easyrider (Dec 23, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> For sure. There definitely shouldn't be any artifacts in that range.
> 
> Here's another example. I tried to make the issue more apparent by just playing a couple of single notes and matching the mics.
> 
> View attachment women choirs2.mp4


----------



## gpax (Dec 23, 2021)

stixman said:


> I cannot enter serial numbers into Sine to find out the cost...is this a known problem?


I had an email yesterday which pointed me to this set of criteria: 






Metropolis Ark 1-4 SINEplayer Crossgrades - Orchestral Tools Helpdesk


If you want to crossgrade Metropolis Ark 1, 2, 3 or 4 to SINE Player, the process depends on when you bought it: If you bought the collection for SINE from the




orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 23, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> Nope. Check out the difference here. I've got the combined/mixed patch loaded up with the individual womens patch.
> 
> There seems to be some sort of pitch shifting effect going on in the combined patch.
> 
> ...


I wasn't serious. It sounds like someone got the Oceania Women's choir drunk and doing the barky staccatissimos.


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I wasn't serious.


I kinda wondered.


----------



## stixman (Dec 23, 2021)

gpax said:


> I had an email yesterday which pointed me to this set of criteria:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i bought mine from OT...It will not let me finish entering serial before deciding to block me.
It will allow me to try again in 29 minutes!


----------



## easyrider (Dec 23, 2021)

Do I buy the bundle or not?


----------



## micrologus (Dec 23, 2021)

stixman said:


> i bought mine from OT...It will not let me finish entering serial before deciding to block me.
> It will allow me to try again in 29 minutes!


I had the same problem, because I copied the S/N from Native Access. You should search the S/N in the NI website. From OT support:



> For some reason, sometimes the serial number from Native Access and the Native Instruments website is different.
> Could you kindly try with the serial number from the NI website?


----------



## tim727 (Dec 23, 2021)

@Mike Fox So the issue is only for the combined patch right? If you go through the full range for the women staccatos in the women dedicated patch does the whole range sound good?


----------



## filipjonathan (Dec 23, 2021)

Does someone know what the sustain pedal is for in the playable runs patches?


----------



## chris massa (Dec 23, 2021)

Frederick said:


> I've picked up the Arks bundle, which meant 5 whole new libraries in my case. I'm very excited to try them out in combination with the Berlins Series. I always had my eye on them, especially Ark 2. It has some very nice colours!
> 
> Thank you @OrchestralTools for making the series and for the great introduction price!


lol. 5 new libraries, see you in a year!


----------



## Zanshin (Dec 23, 2021)

chris massa said:


> lol. 5 new libraries, see you in a year!


Hmppft @Frederick eats 5 new libraries before breakfast. This is probably his 45-50th library just this year


----------



## Zanshin (Dec 23, 2021)

The different short options in this library, they sound like they would handle the epic Zimmer style short sequences with out breaking a sweat? Are they tight?

(specifically asking about Ark 5)


----------



## stixman (Dec 23, 2021)

Thank you for the help  ....finally accepted serial.


----------



## FrozenIcicle (Dec 23, 2021)

Damn 25 euro i was hoping to buy some panpipes but now i gotta reduce this 999 price as much as possible


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

tim727 said:


> @Mike Fox So the issue is only for the combined patch right? If you go through the full range for the women staccatos in the women dedicated patch does the whole range sound good?


That seems to be the case, yes.


----------



## axb312 (Dec 23, 2021)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Damn 25 euro i was hoping to buy some panpipes but now i gotta reduce this 999 price as much as possible


Dont think its valid for products already on sale...


----------



## FrozenIcicle (Dec 23, 2021)

axb312 said:


> Dont think its valid for products already on sale...


yeh in a good way that's good for me cause I can now choose an solo instrument. Still a hard choice


----------



## Virtuoso (Dec 23, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> For sure. There definitely shouldn't be any artifacts in that range.
> 
> Here's another example. I tried to make the issue more apparent by just playing a couple of single notes and matching the mics.
> 
> View attachment women choirs2.mp4


I've been looking for a library that can do the Bagpuss 'mice on the mouse organ' tonality and this looks ideal! Thanks!


----------



## dozicusmaximus (Dec 23, 2021)

richhickey said:


> PSA - if you've got Ark 1-4 and activate them all for Sine you'll get a discount price on completing the Ark bundle that's less than the Ark 5 promo price.


I was hoping that was the case. The OT site doesn't seem to like my NI serial. Oh well. I don't need to spend any more money this year anyway.


----------



## Frederick (Dec 24, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Hmppft @Frederick eats 5 new libraries before breakfast. This is probably his 45-50th library just this year


That was the old me. The new me has completed his VST and plugin collection, which happens to be freakin' awesome.  

What would be the point of 11 non-overlapping orchestral templates instead of 10? (No, don't answer that @muziksculp, @dzilizzi )


----------



## fduncan (Dec 24, 2021)

I own MA1, kontakt version. I would like to test the Sine version first before considering the bundle. However anyone knows why the Kontakt version is 69gb and Sine version is listed as 160gb on OT’s website ? Thank you.


----------



## jcrosby (Dec 24, 2021)

fduncan said:


> I own MA1, kontakt version. I would like to test the Sine version first before considering the bundle. However anyone knows why the Kontakt version is 69gb and Sine version is listed as 160gb on OT’s website ? Thank you.


160 GB is the size the library was before compression, It's 75 GB on disk. The Kontakt verison of Ark 1 is 75.2 GB not 69 GB, (Just double checked). This is also right in line with the site which lists them as the same size.

*From OT's site*:


160 GB of samples (*75 GB* SINEarc compressed / NCW compressed)


----------



## thereus (Dec 24, 2021)

I've never done OT. Berlin is too expensive and these things don't separate the string instruments into the full set of parts which seems really annoying. This bundle offer has me wondering though, since it is a lot of sound for the money. How do people compose with only "high" and "low" strings instead of with 8.8.6.4.2 or whatever...? is it just for the techno folk? I have some Albions whose strings remain unused for similar reasons.


----------



## fduncan (Dec 24, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> 160 GB is the size the library was before compression, It's 75 GB on disk. The Kontakt verison of Ark 1 is 75.2 GB not 69 GB, (Just double checked). This is also right in line with the site which lists them as the same size.
> 
> *From OT's site*:
> 
> ...


Great, thank you, 160gb is mentionned on the bundle’s page from OT’s website. They don’t say if it is compressed or not.


----------



## chrisav (Dec 24, 2021)

thereus said:


> I've never done OT. Berlin is too expensive and these things don't separate the string instruments into the full set of parts which seems really annoying. This bundle offer has me wondering though, since it is a lot of sound for the money. How do people compose with only "high" and "low" strings instead of with 8.8.6.4.2 or whatever...? is it just for the techno folk? I have some Albions whose strings remain unused for similar reasons.


Techno folk? What does that even mean? 

(sounds like an amazing genre mashup though, ngl)


----------



## Vavastrasza (Dec 24, 2021)

richhickey said:


> PSA - if you've got Ark 1-4 and activate them all for Sine you'll get a discount price on completing the Ark bundle that's less than the Ark 5 promo price.


Is it still possible to do this if you got Metropolis Ark 3 & 4 through Native Instruments, as I did?

They don't show up on the My Licenses page on the Orchestral Tools site, only 1 & 2 do.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 24, 2021)

Vavastrasza said:


> Is it still possible to do this if you got Metropolis Ark 3 & 4 through Native Instruments, as I did?
> 
> They don't show up on the My Licenses page on the Orchestral Tools site, only 1 & 2 do.


I think you need to activate the serial number in your account. It should work, but iirc there was some weirdness about where you copy and paste the numbers from, so if it doesn't work at first maybe try typing them in instead of copy pasting.


----------



## chrisav (Dec 24, 2021)

I want to get the paid Kontakt to Sine crossgrade for Ark 1 (bought Ark 1 for Kontakt after it got ported), is there a specific button on the website for this that I'm overlooking, or do I need to contact support for this?


----------



## TheFleetingGlory (Dec 24, 2021)

Having accepted my overdraft fate, I bought this last night and was up till 3am playing through all the patches and can see this being a great source of inspiration. Sounds incredible.

The only section I am not sure of is the synth section, which I can’t see a use for (most of us have enough basic analog synth sounds at hand- mind you to be fair most of us already have enough string libraries -ha ha!).

I appreciate the these libraries don’t offer the flexiblity of true individual string section libraries but for me Ark 1 low strings has been a go to for some years, for adding that thick powerful low ensemble sound for song writing, and the detailed low section patches in this library are very satisfying to play.


----------



## chrisav (Dec 24, 2021)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Have you tried buying it through their player? I bought some Kontakt to Sine crossgrades and as far as I remember, I didn’t need to contact their Support.


Yeah, tried it in the app just now, still no luck! Guess I'll try to get in touch with support, thanks though 😊


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 24, 2021)

thereus said:


> I've never done OT. Berlin is too expensive and these things don't separate the string instruments into the full set of parts which seems really annoying. This bundle offer has me wondering though, since it is a lot of sound for the money. How do people compose with only "high" and "low" strings instead of with 8.8.6.4.2 or whatever...? is it just for the techno folk? I have some Albions whose strings remain unused for similar reasons.


Because this is the commercial thread, I won't link the video. On YouTube, Homay does a video on how to write film music with Albion One that is really good and will work for all libraries that use combined sections instead of individual instruments, like the Arks. You might want to check it out if you are thinking of getting the Arks.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 24, 2021)

@OrchestralTools --

Just clarifying here.

Intro for MA 5 is for a limited time (until 1/04/22).






Is the MA Bundle discount for a limited time, or is it ongoing? If for a limited time, then there will still be a bundle price, but more expensive (and less than buying individually)?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 24, 2021)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> @OrchestralTools --
> 
> Just clarifying here.
> 
> ...



Based on the edu discount price for the bundle it seems the regular bundle price will be around 1500€.


----------



## jcrosby (Dec 24, 2021)

fduncan said:


> Great, thank you, 160gb is mentionned on the bundle’s page from OT’s website. They don’t say if it is compressed or not.


Yes they do. That was copy and pasted form their website, and it's listed in the part of my reply you've quoted in the parentheses:


160 GB of samples (*75 GB* *SINEarc compressed* / *NCW compressed*)


----------



## lgchess2 (Dec 24, 2021)

I see MA2 went back to full price for owners of MA1. Was hoping to pick this up. Not really interested in the other Arks. 
Guess I’ll pick up Tundra instead


----------



## ninose (Dec 25, 2021)

OrchestralTools said:


> So, the secret is out. Metropolis Ark 5 is the end of an era!
> 
> A big thank you to everyone who joined us for the Premiere. Putting it together was a lot of fun, and we really enjoyed some of your speculation on what we were up to (kudos to those who guessed correctly!).
> 
> ...


When does the €999 sale on the Metropolis Arks bundle (1 through 5) end?


----------



## easyrider (Dec 25, 2021)

ninose said:


> When does the €999 sale on the Metropolis Arks bundle (1 through 5) end?


Jan 4


----------



## andyhy (Dec 25, 2021)

This is an attractive offer from OT but I decided in the end to buy only MA5 at the intro price. I wasn't convinced that I would make sufficient use of MA1-4 to justify buying the whole MA bundle. I will see how much use I make of MA5 along with the Main Berlin Series that I already have. The playable runs for the strings, the combinations of instruments and the special articulations of MA5 convinced me. Grateful to David Kudell and many others for demonstrating its potential. No doubt there will be more special offers from the MA series in the future and if my experience with MA5 goes well I will no doubt be back for more.


----------



## jonathanwright (Dec 26, 2021)

Just playing through MA4 after grabbing the bundle.

A couple of issues.

The Woodwind Orchestra patch has brass layered in too, should that be the case?

The Brass Orchestra Staccato short patch round robbins are all over the place, there appears to be a group that are tuned a tone down.

Does this happened for anyone else?


----------



## Marsen (Dec 26, 2021)

jonathanwright said:


> The Brass Orchestra Staccato short patch round robbins are all over the place, there appears to be a group that are tuned a tone down.
> 
> Does this happened for anyone else?


Yes, Dirk Ehlert checked it in his walkthrough.
If I remember correctly, it is one rr, which is tuned down.
Workaround til bug fix is, to simply deactivate it manually. Leaves you with 4 remaining rr´s , if I remember correctly.


----------



## jonathanwright (Dec 26, 2021)

Marsen said:


> Yes, Dirk Ehlert checked it in his walkthrough.
> If I remember correctly, it is one rr, which is tuned down.
> Workaround til bug fix is, to simply deactivate it manually. Leaves you with 4 remaining rr´s , if I remember correctly.


Great, thanks for the tip!


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 26, 2021)

Hi,

I was able to Download MA 4, and 5. Without any issues, I had MA 1, and 2 (SINE) installed a while ago. All of them working fine. 

But, for some reason I had major headaches trying to download MA 3, It kept crashing SINE, after two days of wasted time with it, I was able to delete it from the SINE library, and hope that OT-Support will help fix whatever is causing this issue. 

Anyone here having problems with downloading and installing the Full MA 3 library ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Marsen (Dec 26, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was able to Download MA 4, and 5. Without any issues, I had MA 1, and 2 (SINE) installed a while ago. All of them working fine.
> 
> ...


I just downloaded Ark 4 basic kit without problems. 
Ark 3, i'll give it a try tomorrow and could report, although I'm on Mac.


----------



## andyhy (Dec 26, 2021)

Downloaded MA5 in around 90 minutes. No problems encountered. I don't use SINE while downloads are taking place just as I never try to use a SINE library until it has fully loaded. I select every microphone positions to download at one time and I download to the same folder on my fastest SSD and then back up the new number OT subfolders to an external HDD and check the properties of both match so I know everything has been copied. I also check in SINE to ensure there are no missing mic positions. If one is missing I attempt to re-download it, if necessary choosing a complete re-download of an instrument. I admit I'm fanatical about how I use libraries and I'm equally fanatical about keeping my music files well organised so I know where everything is. 

I don't have a lot of experience with Kontakt other than limited use of BB and BWW which I purchased on BF 2020. This was mainly to qualify for the porting to SINE as the Kontakt versions were virtually unusable in my case due to the size of their ram footprint. Often this fact is overlooked when making comparisons between the Kontakt and SINE versions of OT libraries. The SINE versions take up less SSD space. Any issues with SINE I take up directly with OT support but in practice I've had very little need for over a year now due I suspect to the improvements OT has made to their player (currently version 1.08)

Since downloading MA5 I have already created a dedicated project in Reaper. I played with it last night and it seems very stable so far. Sorry to read so many bad experiences of other users. I think a lot depends on your particular configuration. My setup is a relatively basic Acer Nitro 5 games laptap running Win10 with upgrades to ram and storage devices. Next I plan to upgrade my fastest SSD from 1Tb to 2Tb and then re-organise some of my other libraries to take advantage of the extra speed. All presently use SSDs but even SSD specs have improved so read/write speeds are even better now.

Wishing everyone a trouble free 2021.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 26, 2021)

andyhy said:


> I don't have a lot of experience with Kontakt other than limited use of BB and BWW which I purchased on BF 2020. This was mainly to qualify for the porting to SINE as the Kontakt versions were virtually unusable in my case due to the size of their ram footprint. Often this fact is overlooked when making comparisons between the Kontakt and SINE versions of OT libraries. The SINE versions take up less SSD space. Any issues with SINE I take up directly with OT support but in practice I've had very little need for over a year now due I suspect to the improvements OT has made to their player (currently version 1.08)


For me it's less the space on the SSD and more the space in RAM. That's one reason it would be nice if OT got the purge function working properly. But even so, the ability to merge mics makes many of the OT libraries much more usable in Sine than with Capsule. I bought Berlin Strings when I was still working on a 16GB laptop. I then went to a 32 GB iMac, expanded that to 64 GB and finally replaced it with 128GB iMac. It was really only when I got the 128GB iMac that Berlin Strings were really useful, and it wasn't until they were ported to Sine that I started to find a good workflow for them. 

Interestingly the Arks never posed the same kind of issues to working in Kontakt, though I prefer them in Sine as well.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 27, 2021)

Marsen said:


> I just downloaded Ark 4 basic kit without problems.
> Ark 3, i'll give it a try tomorrow and could report, although I'm on Mac.


@muziksculp 
I downloaded Ark 3 Basic Kit without any problems today. 
Didn't need the whole mics, because I have the kontakt version already installed.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 27, 2021)

Marsen said:


> @muziksculp
> I downloaded Ark 3 Basic Kit without any problems today.
> Didn't need the whole mics, because I have the kontakt version already installed.


Thanks for the feedback.

Did you download it by clicking on the 'Details' button, then select the Basic Kit ? rather than clicking the 'Download' button, which downloads everything ?

I'm still not going to bother downloading it, until I hear from OT-Support. Since this is not something I encounter with their libraries, MA 3 is the only OT library I'm having issues downloading the full library.


----------



## Marsen (Dec 27, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Did you download it by clicking on the 'Details' button, then select the Basic Kit ?


Exactly that.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 27, 2021)

Marsen said:


> Exactly that.


Thanks for the feedback. 

I'm still nervous to even try that with this library, don't want to waste time dealing with it for now, I will wait for OT support to reply, and see if they can fix the issue.


----------



## Fever Phoenix (Dec 27, 2021)

arks in bundle, such a great price.. but I am still traumatized by the Berlin port.. 

really don't know what to do here.. guess I' ll just buy another waterphone..


----------



## tim727 (Dec 27, 2021)

Fever Phoenix said:


> arks in bundle, such a great price.. but I am still traumatized by the Berlin port..
> 
> really don't know what to do here.. guess I' ll just buy another waterphone..


If you were traumatized by the Berlin ports then realistically you are not a good candidate for the Ark bundle  Arks 3 and 4 though are 27% off so you could always still get one of those on Kontakt if you were interested.


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## jbuhler (Dec 27, 2021)

tim727 said:


> If you were traumatized by the Berlin ports then realistically you are not a good candidate for the Ark bundle  Arks 3 and 4 though are 27% off so you could always still get one of those on Kontakt if you were interested.


The port of Ark 3 so far is pretty good—except for the percussion. Some tuning issues have been fixed and the repetition patches all work better for me in Sine than Kontakt. I'm still trying to figure out how OT thinks we should set up the percussion in the DAW.


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## tim727 (Dec 27, 2021)

What are the issues you are encountering in the percussion?


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## jbuhler (Dec 27, 2021)

tim727 said:


> What are the issues you are encountering in the percussion?


I just can't figure out how to map the percussion into a template in a way that makes sense to me. 

Also the Sine percussion patches I've tried are quite laggy so I need to figure out a negative track delay for them.


----------



## tim727 (Dec 27, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I just can't figure out how to map the percussion into a template in a way that makes sense to me.
> 
> Also the Sine percussion patches I've tried are quite laggy so I need to figure out a negative track delay for them.


Oh interesting. I imagine this just comes down to template/workflow differences between you and I as this is never something I've found issue with for that lib.


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## Soundbed (Dec 27, 2021)

filipjonathan said:


> Does someone know what the sustain pedal is for in the playable runs patches?


Yeah so if you hold down the sustain pedal it tries to connect the previous notes played and released to the next note played.

It sounds really fun / funky if you leap around playing a note and waiting for it to die out before playing the next.

The previous note gets repeated then a quick transition to the new short note.

Holding the sustain pedal:

View attachment sustain runs.mp4


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## filipjonathan (Dec 27, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Yeah so if you hold down the sustain pedal it tries to connect the previous notes played and released to the next note played.
> 
> It sounds really fun / funky if you leap around playing a note and waiting for it to die out before playing the next.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Thanks!


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 27, 2021)

tim727 said:


> Oh interesting. I imagine this just comes down to template/workflow differences between you and I as this is never something I've found issue with for that lib.


Almost certainly. It's another case where I would like to see how someone at OT sets up their DAW sessions so I had an idea about how they worked. The walkthroughs don't show that as they are set up to illustrate the instruments not how to work in the DAW.


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## jbuhler (Dec 27, 2021)

Here is a little experiment with the chord functionality in Ark 5, I was playing with changing the tempo and moving CC1 and CC11 to see if I could cause Sine to crash Logic. So far no luck. (As I mentioned in another post I didn't update to Sine 1.0.8 and Sine didn't force me to, so I'm still on Sine 1.0.7.)

View attachment Ark 5 Noodle 1.mp3


This is High Strings Large, High Woodwinds, and Horns Woodwinds and Violas. I think that's all the chord patches.


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## lucky909091 (Dec 28, 2021)

Can I download the stereo mics only and leave all the other ones on the OT server to save storage space?


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## jbuhler (Dec 28, 2021)

lucky909091 said:


> Can I download the stereo mics only and leave all the other ones on the OT server to save storage space?


Yes, you can download just the mics you want. It’s one of the nice features of Sine.


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## lucky909091 (Dec 28, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, you can download just the mics you want. It’s one of the nice features of Sine.


GREAT! Thanks!


----------



## Saxer (Jan 1, 2022)

Is there a kind of "complete your collection" deal? I have Ark 1 to 3 and think about adding 4 and 5.

Would it be better to buy in a special order (first 4, then 5) to get better conditions?


----------



## Manuel Stumpf (Jan 1, 2022)

Saxer said:


> Is there a kind of "complete your collection" deal? I have Ark 1 to 3 and think about adding 4 and 5.
> 
> Would it be better to buy in a special order (first 4, then 5) to get better conditions?


When you have Ark 1 to 3 registered over at OT, and you are logged in your Ark bundle price is discounted.


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## Saxer (Jan 1, 2022)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> When you have Ark 1 to 3 registered over at OT, and you are logged in your Ark bundle price is discounted.


Thanks!


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## micrologus (Jan 1, 2022)

You need to update to Sine, then the price will be updated.


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## Giscard Rasquin (Jan 1, 2022)

Does anybody know if you can purge all articulations within one SINE instance at once or do you need to go one by one? Looks like the latter...


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 1, 2022)

Giscard Rasquin said:


> Does anybody know if you can purge all articulations within one SINE instance at once or do you need to go one by one? Looks like the latter...


Purging in Sine is mostly pointless. The second you activate anything in the instance, all the samples in the instance loads


----------



## Giscard Rasquin (Jan 1, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Purging in Sine is mostly pointless. The second you activate anything in the instance, all the samples in the instance loads


If you have each articulation on a different midi channel within SINE, only the articulation loads that´s being triggered on the midi channel you´re playing on. 
It´s true that the complete articulation loads, but all the other articulations on other MIDI channels stay purged.
The thing is that it looks like you have to purge each articulation separately whereas in Kontakt you can purge all articulations loaded within one instance at once.


----------



## Marsen (Jan 1, 2022)

jonathanwright said:


> The Woodwind Orchestra patch has brass layered in too, should that be the case


I compared Sine with Kontakt versions: They both sound the same, yes.


----------



## Marsen (Jan 1, 2022)

I looked a bit more into the Sine ports, and was trying to find out, if they sound different or behave different. 

In just about 1 hour, I found at Inspire 2 > orchestrations > Low Woodwinds Staccato for Sine only 2 round robins, but in kontakt 3 rr's.

In Metropolis Ark 4 Sine > Woodwinds Orchestra Staccato, I found compared to Kontakt the dynamic very different reacting to velocity (just 2 layers for this patch).
I found, that soft layer was deactivated in Sine, but activated in Kontakt.

One thing is, to forget to fit some performance settings, but to forget or just discard a round robin?
Maybe someone can confirm this issue.

Overall, i like the sound from Sine as much, as the kontakt sound.
Some patches may react a bit differently.
Sines volume output is to high compared to kontakt.
And you can't reset the mic or pan faders with control click, unless I'm missing something. 
Also, no numbers are shown(db) so you never know excactly. 

I tried the mic merge function, which worked very well so far.
But I have the impression, that the merged mic has a bit less stereo spread, then the original mic combi.
A Goniometer shows it too.
It's not a big deal, but I wonder why.

It's still very time consuming to work with Sine, compared to kontakt.


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 1, 2022)

Marsen said:


> It's still very time consuming to work with Sine, compared to kontakt.



I find the opposite, but it seems to be a workflow thing because there are a lot of people on both sides. But I find it takes me about a third less time to program Berlin Strings in Sine compared to Kontakt, so working with Berlin Strings is closer to working with most of my other string libraries. That was not at all the case with Kontakt. 

It’s not just a Kontakt thing either, since the vast majority of my string libraries are Kontakt. It completely has to do with OT’s approach to Kontakt, which is especially acute with Berlin Strings due to the high number of articulations.


----------



## Marsen (Jan 1, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I find the opposite, but it seems to be a workflow thing because there are a lot of people on both sides. But I find it takes me about a third less time to program Berlin Strings in Sine compared to Kontakt, so working with Berlin Strings is closer to working with most of my other string libraries. That was not at all the case with Kontakt.
> 
> It’s not just a Kontakt thing either, since the vast majority of my string libraries are Kontakt. It completely has to do with OT’s approach to Kontakt, which is especially acute with Berlin Strings due to the high number of articulations.


I haven't done as much with BS, like with the Arks, maybe that's why.


----------



## zwhita (Jan 1, 2022)

Apologies if this was previously answered, but since the *first two Arks* are not individually on sale, and NI did not do a sale on them for 2021, is there any hope for the *Kontakt* versions to go on sale again?


----------



## Braveheart (Jan 1, 2022)

zwhita said:


> Apologies if this was previously answered, but since the *first two Arks* are not individually on sale, and NI did not do a sale on them for 2021, is there any hope for the *Kontakt* versions to go on sale again?


Not from Orchestral Tools, maybe NI, but that would be surprising. If OT discontinued Kontakt versions, it means they won’t want to pay for Kontakt player licenses.


----------



## easyrider (Jan 1, 2022)

Braveheart said:


> Not from Orchestral Tools, maybe NI, but that would be surprising. If OT discontinued Kontakt versions, it means they won’t want to pay for Kontakt player licenses.


Once the last few serials have gone OT will disappear from NI website.

NI might do a flash sale to get rid of them….who knows?


----------



## dzilizzi (Jan 1, 2022)

easyrider said:


> Once the last few serials have gone OT will disappear from NI website.
> 
> NI might do a flash sale to get rid of them….who knows?


I'm thinking they are still having some timing related issues with Sine. And the Time series is dependent on timing. They will have to fix that before they totally quit Kontakt.


----------



## SirKen (Jan 1, 2022)

Marsen said:


> I looked a bit more into the Sine ports, and was trying to find out, if they sound different or behave different.
> 
> In just about 1 hour, I found at Inspire 2 > orchestrations > Low Woodwinds Staccato for Sine only 2 round robins, but in kontakt 3 rr's.
> 
> ...


The bad loop points in Ark 2 on Sine seem to be fixed as well. Kontakt version never received that same fix. For a quick test, compare the "tremolo fast" articulation in Mid Strings and listen to rhythmic bumps (pulses).


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## Instrugramm (Jan 2, 2022)

I think it's the most useful ARK to me this far, I found the runs for example to work remarkably well, I used them for ostinati towards the middle in this piece (besides Abbey Road Two). The horns and celli samples are also coming up right at the end.


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## Marsen (Jan 2, 2022)

SirKen said:


> The bad loop points in Ark 2 on Sine seem to be fixed as well. Kontakt version never received that same fix. For a quick test, compare the "tremolo fast" articulation in Mid Strings and listen to rhythmic bumps (pulses).


I only own the kontakt versions of Ark 3 + 4.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 2, 2022)

Marsen said:


> I only own the kontakt versions of Ark 3 + 4.


Did you just buy them? 

I haven't downloaded the Sine versions yet.


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## Marsen (Jan 2, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> Did you just buy them?
> 
> I haven't downloaded the Sine versions yet.


No, i bought them at the last NI sale in 2020.


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## Marsen (Jan 2, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> Did you just buy them?
> 
> I haven't downloaded the Sine versions yet.


To be more clear. 
Like i wrote a bit earlier, I compared ark 3+4 kontakt with sine, and was asked about ark2, which i don't have.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 2, 2022)

Marsen said:


> To be more clear.
> Like i wrote a bit earlier, I compared ark 3+4 kontakt with sine, and was asked about ark2, which i don't have.


Got it! When you said you only own the Kontakt versions, I was thinking, but the Sine versions are free! I kind of missed that he was talking about 2.


----------



## Fever Phoenix (Jan 5, 2022)

I am using MA5 in a project, but somehow all the chord articulations have disappeared. Well they are there but they don't playback anymore, no sounds.. I checked all instruments and nothing.. In a multi all other articulations work except the chords.

I contacted support, anybody else run into similar issues?

EDIT: as I am on a tight deadline I will copy and paste/post this also on the other MA5 thread. Thx for any help! OT support is still in holiday 🤷‍♂️


----------



## andyhy (Jan 5, 2022)

Do you fancy using MA5 with a guitar synth instead of a midi keyboard? I've done it.

I've setup my Godin LGXT guitar to work with MA5 via a Roland VG-99 guitar synth. I'm using the program changes option in SINE. I created separate user patches in the VG-99 specifying the program change number for each articulation. I can also control instrument volume from my synth guitar by specifying CC007 in the VG-99 for the synth volume knob. The sensitivity of all six strings has been lowered to 5 to minimise accidental sounds. Other guitar to midi settings are Poly Mode, Play Feel 1 and Chromatic Type 1. Then specify the program change number of the articulation you want to control in each patch. On my Godin I use the S1/2 momentary switch to move between patches. It works a treat.

It is worth adding that to interface the VG-99 with Windows 10 you need to edit just one file in the driver and then change the start up settings as the revised driver will not be accepted by Win 10. I had to do a similar edit to the driver of my Roland Fantom 8 keyboard. For some reason Roland had issued no driver update since Windows 8. Why Roland didn't make such a simple change eludes me but I guess they want people to buy their latest hardware. Fortunate that there's an easy workaround.

1) First download from the Roland web site the VG-99 USB driver for windows 8.1 (vg99_w81d_v101)

2) Look now for the RDIF1067.INF file in the package of the vg99_w81d_v101 and open the file with a text editor

3) Find the following lines :

[Roland.NTamd64.7]
;; not supported

and replaced by :

[Roland.NTamd64.7]
;; Windows 10
%RDID0067DeviceDesc%=RDID0067Install, USB\VID_0582&PID_00B2 ; VG-99

and save the file

3) To installed the driver you have now to restart Windows 10 with the advanced options (shutdown /r /o) and changed the startup options and chosed the option 7 ''Disable Driver Signature Enforcement'' (look on Google if you don't know how to ''Disable Driver Signature Enforcement"

4) Once you have reboot your PC with the Driver Signature Enforcement disable , you can now installed the VG-99 USB driver by running the setup program on the pakage you download previously (make sure the modified driver file is in the package folder)

5) Once installed you don't have to Disable Driver Signature Enforcement at each reboot

Those with more up-to-date guitar synths may already have Win10-compatible drivers in which case you're lucky.

Kontakt articulations can be controlled in a similar way but it necessitates creating instrument banks into which you then load the articulations you want to use. Each slot in the instrument bank represents a fixed program number. I confess that I have yet to explore this area but it looks quite possible. In the meantime I am concentrating on my SINE libraries.


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## tritonely (Jan 8, 2022)

I absolutely love the shorts and the sustain pads in this library. I used them in my orchestral arrangement of Olafur Arnalds' Woven Song: 

- 1:35: String Orchestra - Shorts Master
- 2:11: String Orchestra Large + Winds - Sustain Pad & Mixed Choir - Sustain Pad

The idea of the Shorts Master is brilliant: the shorts are getting significantly shorter in length as you play softer and bolder as you play louder. I wish to find other libraries who use this idea as well. 

The pads (strings, brass, woodwinds as well as choir) are all wonderfully rich in dynamic and timbre. Great to have each instrument group as an ensemble so you can play big chords in one instance. My new favourite sustain pads to sketch as well as use in the end result.


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## davidson (Jan 8, 2022)

SirKen said:


> The bad loop points in Ark 2 on Sine seem to be fixed as well. Kontakt version never received that same fix. For a quick test, compare the "tremolo fast" articulation in Mid Strings and listen to rhythmic bumps (pulses).


@OrchestralTools Can you confirm? If Ark 2's sine has received fixes, can we expect kontakt to be fixed too?


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## Zanshin (Jan 8, 2022)

I think it would be a very safe bet that OT never updates any of the Kontakt libraries again.


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## Markrs (Jan 8, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I think it would be a very safe bet that OT never updates any of the Kontakt libraries again.


If you click on the buy Kontakt version option that exists for older libraries that are now on SINE, OT basically say exactly that.


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## OrchestralTools (Jan 11, 2022)

Hi everyone, 

just a quick note to say that we've released updated official walkthroughs of Metropolis Ark 3 & 4. 

Metropolis Ark 3 walkthrough
Metropolis Ark 4 walkthrough 

Best,
OT


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## fduncan (Jan 13, 2022)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> just a quick note to say that we've released updated official walkthroughs of Metropolis Ark 3 & 4.
> 
> ...


Hello, is the support working now ? Because I sent a ticket with few reminders since the 27th of December, but I have not received any answer yet. I bought the Ark bundle but I can’t use it. I left a detailed thread in the technical issue section as well several days ago. Thank you.


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## Marsen (Jan 13, 2022)

fduncan said:


> Hello, is the support working now ? Because I sent a ticket with few reminders since the 27th of December, but I have not received any answer yet. I bought the Ark bundle but I can’t use it. I left a detailed thread in the technical issue section as well several days ago. Thank you.


Same here. Crashes all the time.


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## lucky909091 (Jan 13, 2022)

I also bought the Ark bundle in December.
Here, on Windows 10 64bit in Cubase 11, no issues.
Just to let both of you know.


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## Fever Phoenix (Jan 13, 2022)

I don't have any other issues either. Just the chords problem at 95 bpm, which will be a quick fix as OT support told me and I miss the multis from the Kontakt versions. But Sine is stable for me and the Arks work marvelously mentioned points aside


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## jbuhler (Jan 13, 2022)

Fever Phoenix said:


> I don't have any other issues either. Just the chords problem at 95 bpm, which will be a quick fix as OT support told me and I miss the multis from the Kontakt versions. But Sine is stable for me and the Arks work marvelously mentioned points aside


This post has a version of the multis from Ark 3 as Sine presets. The presets reportedly come from OT support:






Sine player Ark 3 multis from OT


Hi everybody, i asked the OT support why there was no multis in the sine player version of Ark 3 and they sent me this file, they also said ark 4 multis are being worked on. Hope it helps




vi-control.net


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