# First orchestral library purchase decision



## Gabriel Maggioni (May 27, 2021)

Hi!

I'm trying to decide which orchestral library to start. There is the Spitfire spring sale going on right now, and I'm thinking about the BBCSO but I'm not sure what to do.
I'm not new to orchestration, I have studied it and scored more than a few songs. I would like a library that I can write all the instrument sessions independently, and achieve a sound that is classical and movie soundtrack, and that's why I think the BBCSO would be a nice start.
I would like some suggestions about it and some suggestions about this questions:

1. I also sometimes work recording keyboards for rock and metal bands. Is the BBCSO too wet for that?
2. Regarding BBCSO professional and core, is the price difference justified by the extra mics, extra instruments and articulations?
3. Should I but BBCSO core and buy other libraries with the 300 dollar difference?
4. I'm thinking about buying Metropolis Ark 1 and 2 later, to get a big epic sound. So I can write independent instruments with BBC and use Ark for the big moments. Would it be a good complement to the BBCSO core or professional?
5. Would you suggest other libraries arrangement around 1200 dollar budget?

English is not my first language, so I hope my thread is not too confusing

Thanks!


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## sinkd (May 27, 2021)

Gabriel,

Sounds like you have a good plan and know what you need--I would suggest also looking at Symphobia Pandora (or Pandora Core) for the "epic" sound you want. I have BBCSO Professional, and for regular orchestrational needs it is hard to beat as a complete package.


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## Gabriel Maggioni (May 27, 2021)

sinkd said:


> Gabriel,
> 
> Sounds like you have a good plan and know what you need--I would suggest also looking at Symphobia Pandora (or Pandora Core) for the "epic" sound you want. I have BBCSO Professional, and for regular orchestrational needs it is hard to beat as a complete package.


Thank you! I didn't know pandora yet! I'm watching walkthroughs.

Would you recommend getting the professional BBCSO? Or the Core + other library would be a better spent money?


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## Trash Panda (May 27, 2021)

If your focus is a classical symphony sound, BBCSO is a great value. I find it struggles to fit well with rock/metal because of the lack of aggression in the upper dynamics.

The Metropolis Ark series can do loud and aggressive, but be aware it does not break out individual instrument groups and is very wet like BBCSO.

If you’re trying to focus on just a single, all purpose library that can do many styles, East West Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition is very powerful and flexible. You’ll just have to spend some time with the manual to understand the patch structure and variations in CC controls.

Cinematic Studio Series is also very flexible stylistically, very deep and has some of the most highly regarded legato, but it can be tricky to use the legato due to the changes in timing depending on velocity. The rest of the articulation set is very consistent and easy to use. It lacks a percussion section yet, but you can get that from other libraries and blend them fairly easily. Once you buy one of the main libraries, the rest are always 30% off.


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## nolotrippen (May 27, 2021)

Here's some love for East West Symphonic Orchestra!


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## mybadmemory (May 27, 2021)

For the classical orchestra BBC is hard to beat. I'd start with Core and use that for a while and upgrade to Pro later. For blending with the rock genre i'd probably have a look at Nucleus / Jaeger instead of MA, since they offer a more modern and slighly drier verson of the agressive sound, in comparison to MA that sounds more old school and wet.


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## wahey73 (May 27, 2021)

sinkd said:


> Gabriel,
> 
> Sounds like you have a good plan and know what you need--I would suggest also looking at Symphobia Pandora (or Pandora Core) for the "epic" sound you want. I have BBCSO Professional, and for regular orchestrational needs it is hard to beat as a complete package.


I quite agree, but maybe Pandora is too much on the dark side...anyhow, if you want some of the epic sound right out of the box then yes, Symphobia 1 (whilst Pandora is considered Symphobia 4) or even Orchestral Essentials 1 might be a good choice
PS: dal nome immagino che sei italiano?


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## d4vec4rter (May 27, 2021)

+1 For BBCSO Core as your individual instrument classical orchestra and also for Nucleus / Jaeger as the solution for more modern sounding epic-ish pre-orchestrations. With the current sale on at Spitfire, it's a bit of a no brainer.


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## MusicalWhiskey (May 27, 2021)

Gabriel Maggioni said:


> Thank you! I didn't know pandora yet! I'm watching walkthroughs.
> 
> Would you recommend getting the professional BBCSO? Or the Core + other library would be a better spent money?


If you’re just getting started, you may want to just grab the professional. You’ll probably want to have solo instruments/section leader patches IMO. I also, personally, really like playing with mic positions 🤷‍♂️.


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## bill5 (May 27, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> If your focus is a classical symphony sound, BBCSO is a great value.


? I know this is going to come out wrong, but weren't you one of those ripping BBCSO in the "disappointing libraries" thread? I'm neutral, but sincerely curious.


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## bill5 (May 27, 2021)

d4vec4rter said:


> +1 For BBCSO Core as your individual instrument classical orchestra


...unless you care about viola, clarinet, or trombone solos, none of which Core has. Not to mention no ensembles.

FWIW I am not a BBCSO "hater." I have Discovery and think it sounds really nice. Just trying to provide a balanced opinion...


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## mybadmemory (May 27, 2021)

bill5 said:


> ...unless you care about viola, clarinet, or trombone solos, none of which Core has. Not to mention no ensembles.
> 
> FWIW I am not a BBCSO "hater." I have Discovery and think it sounds really nice. Just trying to provide a balanced opinion...


Oh, but core does have the wind and brass soloists. Just not the string leaders. 

And ensemble patches are very easily created by just combining for examples all strings sustains, or all strings spiccato with a track stack, or by just record enabling them all at once. Sounds lovely!


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## Justin L. Franks (May 27, 2021)

bill5 said:


> ...unless you care about viola, clarinet, or trombone solos, none of which Core has. Not to mention no ensembles.


Core has brass and woodwind solos.


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## bill5 (May 27, 2021)

Hey all, sorry, I double-checked and outdated info...per Spitfire, and I quote, "here is an accurate list of the solo patches included in BBC SO Core:"

-Flute
-Piccolo
-Oboe
-Clarinet
-Bassoon
-Horn
-Trumpet
-Tenor Trombone
-Tuba
-Most Percussion patches

So as others stated earlier, basically no string solos. Which frankly IMO is even weaker than my earlier assumption. So yay to BBCSO Core...if you don't care about string solos.


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## from_theashes (May 28, 2021)

For classic I would definately go with BBCSO Pro and add AlbionONE for the more epic stuff (or even the Epic bundle from current sale). With both on sale you are under 1200€ budget.


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## mybadmemory (May 28, 2021)

from_theashes said:


> For classic I would definately go with BBCSO Pro and add AlbionONE for the more epic stuff. With both on sale you are under 1200€ budget.


For epic mixed with other genres like rock, Albion might be too wet though. I’d probably have a look at nucleus/Jaeger instead for that purpose, since they are much drier.


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## from_theashes (May 28, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> For epic mixed with other genres like rock, Albion might be too wet though. I’d probably have a look at nucleus/Jaeger instead for that purpose, since they are much drier.


Not a fan of Audio Imperia…. But hey, if it works you^^


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## GtrString (May 28, 2021)

In that context of music as you describe, I would rather go with something from NI (Session Strings Pro) or Spectrasonics Omnisphere. In fact, you can't go wrong with Omnisphere either way.

BW, if you don't like the Spitfire stuff, you have no way of passing it on, as it is not resaleable, unlike the Native Instruments licenses. Might be something to be aware of, when you are buying your first lib.


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## AndyP (May 28, 2021)

I have BBCSO Pro and OPUS / HO Diamond and prefer OPUS 9 times out of 10. The string divisi alone are worth it to me and I like the slightly more opulent sound of EW better. 

In the end, I guess it's more of a taste decision in terms of sound. 

I find the strings in OPUS, especially the legatos, and the brass to be classes above. I like the woodwinds in BBCSO a bit better. There is something like performance patches in both libraries, I find EW's musically more usable.


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## Geomir (May 28, 2021)

Since you managed to save a nice budget of around $1200, I would suggest you to also consider VSL Synchron-ized Special Editions Vol.1, Vol.1 Plus, Vol.2, and Vol.2 Plus. There are many demos and walkthroughs on YT.

It is as cohesive and balanced as a virtual symphonic orchestra can be, has an insane number of solo instruments (including a wonderful detailed Steinway D grand piano), a great variety of sections and ensembles, it's very capable of a rich classical sound, and - last but not least - Sychron Player is one of the most capable Players available these days.

Also the whole package is far less demanding on CPU and RAM (if that concerns you) than EW OPUS (any version) or BBCSO Pro. For now it requires a physical USB-dongle, but in the future (before the end of 2021) this will not be the case.

Since it's considered to be a "starter library" (a premium one for sure!), it lacks the dynamic layers of - say - EW OPUS, and you can't control separately the vibrato. It's up to you to decide how detailed you want to go.


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## Chris Harper (May 28, 2021)

I like Nucleus as a starter library. I think it is very capable of doing more than just epic by using the classic mix, being careful with the dynamics and adding some nice reverb. Not as many articulations, but it’s very easy to use and I really love the adjustable pre-delays. That really should be an industry standard. All the notes line up and I never have to bounce to audio and fiddle around to make the notes play exactly when I told the software to play them.

VSL Special Editions 1&2/1+/2+ in the new Synchron player are also very user friendly and versatile.

I have both of these, as well as BBCSO Core. I like the sound of the BBC strings, but I tend to use the other two more because I can get a usable result with less fiddling around. BBC is going to be too wet for most rock music applications. 

I have never used EastWest products, but I really think ComposerCloud should be a top consideration for anyone who is new and doesn’t know what to get, based on everything I have heard. If I were starting over, I would go that route. Some people worry about not being able to access their music if they cancel their subscription. It’s always good practice to bounce all the tracks and export MIDI files when you finish a song anyway, but particularly if using a subscription. I wouldn’t hesitate to go that route and see how you like it. People also complain about not owning the product, but let’s be honest...you could easily pay for a decade of subscription fees for less than most of us have paid for libraries, most of which will be obsolete in under a decade. And you aren’t stuck owning libraries you don’t like but cannot sell. I have considered a subscription for myself even though I own quite a few libraries already.


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## Trash Panda (May 28, 2021)

bill5 said:


> ? I know this is going to come out wrong, but weren't you one of those ripping BBCSO in the "disappointing libraries" thread? I'm neutral, but sincerely curious.


I personally don’t get along with it and don’t like the fiddliness required to use it, but it IS still a great value when on sale.


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## Markrs (May 28, 2021)

If you are just starting out get EastWest Composer Cloud, especially since the new Opus engine was released it is a lot better, and a lot easier to use as well. I was using BBC SO Pro a lot until Opus came out, but that is now the library I use the most. To the point I don't really have much interest in other orchestral libraries at the moment (I'm sure that will change when some new flavour of the month library comes out)


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 28, 2021)

Gabriel Maggioni said:


> I would like a library that I can write all the instrument sessions independently, and achieve a sound that is classical and movie soundtrack


For these reasons, I would not go with BBCSO. I also recommend EastWest Composer Cloud. It contains everything you need for orchestrating....especially the CC Plus version (which included Divisi in Opus). I love both BBCSO Pro and Hollywood Opus, but BBCSO simply isn't comprehensive enough as a good "all rounder" IMO. Plus, the brass is its weakest instrument section.


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## Gabriel Maggioni (May 29, 2021)

wahey73 said:


> I quite agree, but maybe Pandora is too much on the dark side...anyhow, if you want some of the epic sound right out of the box then yes, Symphobia 1 (whilst Pandora is considered Symphobia 4) or even Orchestral Essentials 1 might be a good choice
> PS: dal nome immagino che sei italiano?


Ciao!

Sì, sono italo-brasiliano. Adesso vivo in Brasile. Symphobia 1 mi pare ottimo! Però mi piace anche il dark side. Non so cosa fare, ci sono troppe possibilità


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## Gabriel Maggioni (May 29, 2021)

Thanks for so many answers! I'm a bit lost with so many options

I'm a little bit disappointed abou the BBCSO horns and winds being not so good, and very irregular. The sound demos at spitfire sound so great!
The Eastwest strings has something I dislike in the demos, but I'm not sure what. Maybe it's a little unrealistic. Do anyone feel the same?



Chris Harper said:


> I like Nucleus as a starter library. I think it is very capable of doing more than just epic by using the classic mix, being careful with the dynamics and adding some nice reverb. Not as many articulations, but it’s very easy to use and I really love the adjustable pre-delays. That really should be an industry standard. All the notes line up and I never have to bounce to audio and fiddle around to make the notes play exactly when I told the software to play them.
> 
> VSL Special Editions 1&2/1+/2+ in the new Synchron player are also very user friendly and versatile.
> 
> ...


I haven't thought at VSL, and now I'm considering it a lot! How would you combine it with other libraries, specially the wet ones?


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