# What is "Legato rebow"?



## ansthenia (Sep 12, 2021)

I always thought that the entire point of legato was that you didn't bow again, like how legato with a guitar is done by not plucking the string when you hit the note. But now I see that this is referred to as slurred and some string libraries have a rebow legato. But, what is the difference between rebowed legato and just no legato?


----------



## Rob (Sep 12, 2021)

that's a can of worms you're uncovering 
My opinion has always been that the only proper legato is "played in one bow", at least in the real world


----------



## Sarah Mancuso (Sep 12, 2021)

"Legato" in sample libraries means "we recorded the transitions between notes", regardless of what method was used to go between those notes. It doesn't mean the same thing it does in the real world.

"Bow-change legato" in a sample library means you're getting recordings of the players changing notes while rebowing.

The difference between that and no legato is that without legato samples, you're just getting completely isolated performances for each note, with no transitional performance stitching them together.


----------



## thesteelydane (Sep 12, 2021)

Some developers call it bow change legato, which is a term that only exists in sample land. In the real world it's just a on the string detaché, which is the mother of all bowing, and bread and butter of all string playing.


----------



## RogiervG (Sep 12, 2021)

As i've learned it years ago: (not i am not a stringed instrument player, let a alone a bowed instrument, so for non bowed stringed and/or keyed instruments the following is a less suitable explanation):

Thus for bowed instruments:

Legato (it's a form of detaché), italian (origin is from latin: _ligare), meaning connecting/bonding/overlapping._

Legato commonly uses the full length of the bow to play notes, with detaché itself you can bow change on each note, if you want (criteria is that you fully play the note length), resulting many more bow changes in phrases/motives. Legato, as said uses the full length of the bow, and *only* changes when the bow length ends. In both cases, the bow remains *on* the strings, it does not disconnect from the strings.
Slurred is a technique, where you join notes as "groups" and use mostly the fingers to change notes in the group instead of the strings, while doing detaché: not one note per bow stroke, but multiple notes ("groups"). However, in contrast to slurred legato, you don't need to go in full bow length before changing direction. (hard to explain textual, i find, visually it's way easier)

Correct me if i am having it wrongly remembered, bowed instrument players... 

I find that the sample world is mixing up naming, and sometimes even invents naming to explain a sample technique, instead of playing technique.


----------



## youngpokie (Sep 12, 2021)

ansthenia said:


> I always thought that the entire point of legato was that you didn't bow again


The point of legato is to change notes with left hand while the bow is moved in a single motion with the right. So yes, I think you're right - in principle there is no re-bow in theoretical legato.

However, in real life a slur can often link many more notes than can be physically played with a single bow motion. And additionally, the higher the dynamic marking, the faster the bow will be used up. Wagner, in particular, used very long slurs on occasion, but many many composers used slurs that are too long and not playable with a single bow.

In such cases, a player will rebow while playing legato, taking special care to make the bow change as subtle as possible.


----------



## ansthenia (Sep 12, 2021)

youngpokie said:


> The point of legato is to change notes with left hand while the bow is moved in a single motion with the right. So yes, I think you're right - in principle there is no re-bow in theoretical legato.
> 
> However, in real life a slur can often link many more notes than can be physically played with a single bow motion. And additionally, the higher the dynamic marking, the faster the bow will be used up. Wagner, in particular, used very long slurs on occasion, but many many composers used slurs that are too long and not playable with a single bow.
> 
> In such cases, a player will rebow while playing legato, taking special care to make the bow change as subtle as possible.


Ahh I see, that definitely makes sense. So it would be idiomatic then to use regular legato and insert a single rebowed legato note transition when you think it would be necessary for the player to change direction.

Thanks!


----------



## youngpokie (Sep 12, 2021)

ansthenia said:


> insert a single rebowed legato note transition when you think it would be necessary for the player to change direction.


Just remember that it is not driven by a single factor: it's the phrasing, tempo plus the dynamic markings that inform the decision to rebow. Phrasing is paramount.

Not to belabor the point, but at _piano_ dynamic, the rebow during legato can be made very subtle and barely perceptible. At _fortissimo_, the bow change must happen much more often and will be more pronounced.

This legato rebow problem is nearly identical to what happens with extra-long sustains - at some point a player will simply have to rebow and the goal is to make that as subtly as possible so the sustain feels smooth and uninterrupted.

Of course, with sustains the section players can rebow at different times making the seams very smooth. But with legato, proper phrasing is so critical that this dispersion of rebow is not always possible.

Some really old orchestration books (e.g. Widor) suggest to be very conservative when placing slurs to address this very issue - e.g. not extending a slur beyond two 4/4 bars.


----------



## Trash Panda (Sep 12, 2021)

Sample Library developers have turned legato into a generalized term that means the notes are connected.

For strings, legato could mean:
Detache - notes connected by a change in bow direction, aka rebow
Portamento - notes connected by sliding the finger up or down the neck while the bow continues in its direction
Fingered slur - the player lifts the finger to the next pitch or places the finger down at the next pitch without an audible slide or bow change


----------



## ansthenia (Sep 12, 2021)

Thank you for the info everyone, I think I understand it now


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 12, 2021)

My first reaction was that it means continuing a sustained note when you run out of bow.

Sections will stagger the bow direction change so you don’t hear it.


----------

