# Spitfire audio: i just purchased albion one because of the hype and i regret it



## bleupalmtree (Aug 3, 2021)

I'm by no means no pro composer. Just a hobbyist with a lot of free time.

Anyways, so I purchased Albion One because it's all I read about on reddit about how it's the best program to use if you want to compose movies/shows. So I bought it. Now that I'm looking more at that site they got way better, cooler sounding programs that I'm interested in.

I'm looking at Hans Zimmer Strings, Tundra & Solstice and I love the way they sound. I'm going to try and return Albion One since I haven't downloaded it (and barely purchased it) but my question is would Tundra & Hans Zimmer be a good substitute for Albion One? I'm not looking for no big epic sounds, more into laid back low key small sounding stuff and I feel Tundra would be the right direction for me. If I want big or something different then that's where Hans Zimmer Strings would come in. Would Hans Zimmer Strings and Tundra be a good substitute for Albion One?

As for Solstice I LOVE THE SOUND that they use. Very mystic and motherly to me. Like one with nature.

Also does anyone know if there's good classes/tutorials on youtube for teaching you the basics of composing?

I've been messing with Garageband and their stock plugins for about 2 years. I'd use my keyboard to finger chords and what not. I'm making an upgrade to Logic Pro and bought an M-Audio Hammer 88 key midi

Next week I plan to purchase HS5 YAMAHA and I bought a focusrite a. while ago. I play guitar.

I'm going to be unemployed til Spring of 22 and have a lot of free time on my hands. Don't worry I have money put away from a few fine investments I made in the past. Now it's me time but I need help and I would really appreciate if someone can give me the right guidance as I have no idea these kind of software that Spitfire is doing existed.


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## Sarah Mancuso (Aug 3, 2021)

If you want something smaller-sounding, Tundra is still huge, just more quiet and textural. Albion Neo or Spitfire Chamber Strings would be good picks for something smaller and more detailed.


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 3, 2021)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> If you want something smaller-sounding, Tundra is still huge, just more quiet and textural. Albion Neo or Spitfire Chamber Strings would be good picks for something smaller and more detailed.


I'll check those out. I'm just so frustrated right now. There's so many cool sounds. Is it worth keeping Albion one? I have some extra money but I don't want to break the bank. That's the words I'm looking for with Tundra. "Quiet and textural."

I like the sounds, not sure what it's called, but when the violins make those plucking noise. Does Spitfire Chamber Strings have that?

Albion Neo, I was debating between that and Tundra. I'll have to check out Neo again.


What do you think about Hans Zimmer Strings? How does that compare with Spitfire Chamber Strings?


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## Sarah Mancuso (Aug 3, 2021)

Hans Zimmer Strings is another one that’s Huge. Massive ensembles in that one.

The plucked strings sound you’re looking for is called pizzicato. It’s included in Chamber Strings. Spitfire Chamber Strings is insanely comprehensive and covers an incredible number of the sounds you can make with strings. If you want another more textural library to pair with it, Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions is a great partner to it.

I mostly use Albion One for its non-orchestral content like the percussion, though I do reach for it sometimes for simplicity’s sake.


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## Kent (Aug 3, 2021)

Honestly you might be best served hanging out on this forum longer before making any more purchases. You’ll find a big big world of virtual instruments, and an even bigger world of opinions…informed or otherwise 😛


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 3, 2021)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Hans Zimmer Strings is another one that’s Huge. Massive ensembles in that one.
> 
> The plucked strings sound you’re looking for is called pizzicato. It’s included in Chamber Strings. Spitfire Chamber Strings is insanely comprehensive and covers an incredible number of the sounds you can make with strings. If you want another more textural library to pair with it, Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions is a great partner to it.
> 
> I mostly use Albion One for its non-orchestral content like the percussion, though I do reach for it sometimes for simplicity’s sake.





kmaster said:


> Honestly you might be best served hanging out on this forum longer before making any more purchases. You’ll find a big big world of virtual instruments, and an even bigger world of opinions…informed or otherwise 😛


Yea, I will but Spitfire is having a huge sale right now til Sunday. So looks like I'll be going through this forum like cray-cray as Sunday is my deadline lol

But the main thing I want to get is Solstice. Love the sounds on there.

I'm debating if I should keep Albion One or if I should find something right for me.


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## Kent (Aug 3, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Yea, I will but Spitfire is having a huge sale right now til Sunday. So looks like I'll be going through this forum like cray-cray as Sunday is my deadline lol
> 
> But the main thing I want to get is Solstice. Love the sounds on there.
> 
> I'm debating if I should keep Albion One or if I should find something right for me.


Well, it’s early August, and I’d imagine the best sale of the year—for ALL (or at least a vast majority of) developers—is just over 3 months away. That’s the perfect amount of time to figure out what you truly want soundwise and workflow-wise, and then you won’t be in this position again! 😉


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## Sarah Mancuso (Aug 3, 2021)

kmaster said:


> Well, it’s early August, and I’d imagine the best sale of the year—for ALL (or at least a vast majority of) developers—is just over 3 months away. That’s the perfect amount of time to figure out what you truly want soundwise and workflow-wise, and then you won’t be in this position again! 😉


40% off individual products is generally the best that Spitfire does (outside of bundles and rare single-product-only 50% off promos), though admittedly this year they've changed things up a bit by going 40% off in the summer sale rather than just for spring and Christmas.


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## ka00 (Aug 3, 2021)

In my opinion, BBCSO Core would be “a good substitute” for Albion One. Has individual instruments not just ensembles and you would learn a lot about the instruments in an orchestra with this.


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## jbuhler (Aug 3, 2021)

It depends on what you want to do. Albion One is an ok starting place. It has a lot of different components. If you know what you are doing, you can put together a credible sounding orchestral piece quickly and with relatively few tracks, but its focus is on higher dynamic levels, it’s a large orchestra, and even the other elements like the Steamband and percussion are focused on the louder side of things. It’s also an ensemble library so you can only paint in broad brushes. That’s not necessarily a bad thing in itself as it reduces complexity, but it is a limitation.

Neo is like Albion One’s little sibling. It’s a smaller orchestra and it is more focused on the softer dynamic layers. The strings offer a bit more control than Albion One, since they are divided in two groups, divisi fashion. This is not the way string ensembles are usually divided (violins 1&2, violas, cellos, basses), but it’s a nice sound and it allows a bit more control over the sound. The individual sections is like a chamber orchestra, and even together the sound remains relatively small and intimate. The library also has a lot of textural longs similar to Tundra and Hans Zimmer Strings, but for a much smaller ensemble. My one reservation of the Neo strings is that the legato breaks at the G below middle C (the violins’ lowest note). This makes it hard to score tunes in the mid cello range.

The winds of Neo are similar to Albion One’s but softer and with a few peculiarities, like the “bacon fry” in the low saxophones, and a bit of dodgy tuning starting with the C above middle C. Overall though, I like these winds.

Neo’s brass is a bit harder to use. The nature of the instruments make the legato feel very disconnected, but in context the other articulations work very well.

overall, the orchestra is very good at imitating a theater or salon orchestra, and I’ve found it an excellent library for doing quick orchestrations of Tin Pan Alley tunes from sheet music. I haven’t found the extras of Neo to be as useful as those in Albion One. But because it is so easy to whip up arrangements of sheet music with Neo, it is one of my most used libraries.

Tundra is a large orchestra like Albion One, but with a focus on very soft articulations. This is very effective with strings, but I find the results mixed for winds and brass. Unless you know you want to do atmospheric scoring, I wouldn’t recommend starting with Tundra. It’s a great library, but very niche.

@kmaster is right that you’d be wise to explore as much as you can by listening to demos, watching walkthroughs, and watching reviews before buying too much. SF runs a similar deal 3 times a year, and they have another sale over Thanksgiving, and if you have an EDU discount, the best time to buy is during the EDU sake at the end of September. If the GAS is too much, and you have to get something now, something like SCS is a good bet because you are likely to find it useful whatever direction you ultimately go.


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## jbuhler (Aug 3, 2021)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Spitfire does not offer returns, just so you know.


OP hasn’t started to download the library. SF has usually allowed return in that situation. I think odds are likely they’d allow return in this situation especially if it was an exchange for something else. But, yes, OP would have to check with SF.


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## yiph2 (Aug 3, 2021)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Spitfire does not offer returns, just so you know.


They do if you did not download it


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## Pappaus (Aug 3, 2021)

I agree with most of the above. I did buy Albion and realized I really did not want an ensemble library. I hadn’t downloaded anything and so Spitfire did gimme a refund. Tundra is a great library but it is a speciality library and you probably want a more general library at first. Good luck


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 3, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> It depends on what you want to do. Albion One is an ok starting place. It has a lot of different components. If you know what you are doing, you can put together a credible sounding orchestral piece quickly and with relatively few tracks, but its focus is on higher dynamic levels, it’s a large orchestra, and even the other elements like the Steamband and percussion are focused on the louder side of things. It’s also an ensemble library so you can only paint in broad brushes. That’s not necessarily a bad thing in itself as it reduces complexity, but it is a limitation.
> 
> Neo is like Albion One’s little sibling. It’s a smaller orchestra and it is more focused on the softer dynamic layers. The strings offer a bit more control than Albion One, since they are divided in two groups, divisi fashion. This is not the way string ensembles are usually divided (violins 1&2, violas, cellos, basses), but it’s a nice sound and it allows a bit more control over the sound. The individual sections is like a chamber orchestra, and even together the sound remains relatively small and intimate. The library also has a lot of textural longs similar to Tundra and Hans Zimmer Strings, but for a much smaller ensemble. My one reservation of the Neo strings is that the legato breaks at the G below middle C (the violins’ lowest note). This makes it hard to score tunes in the mid cello range.
> 
> ...


Wow, that was a very detailed answer. I'm going to have to re-read all that again to better understand as this is all new to me and I have a lot to learn and a lot to hear. I'll check out Neo. As for Chamber Strings I have that on my wish list.

Since you know your stuff there's this piece I like in Pan's Labyrnith called "Pan's Lullaby." It's so beautiful but would Tundra or Neo get something close to this (not the voice but the instruments)? 




I always love pieces like that.


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## el-bo (Aug 3, 2021)

Definitely don't download it yet. As others have said, there's much more of a chance of getting a refund that way.


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 3, 2021)

Don't worry I didn't. I chatted with a agent on the website. Waiting for refund.


el-bo said:


> Definitely don't download it yet. As others have said, there's much more of a chance of getting a refund that way.


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## jbuhler (Aug 3, 2021)

Pretty much any strings with a soft dynamic layer can do the pad part behind the voice. A lot of the feeling of that cue is carried by the voice. For the string line near the end it depends on what you are hearing in it that you want to capture. I think both Neo and SCS could do a credible job with it. But so could a lot of other libraries. You might try using one of the free string packs in SF Labs and see how far you can get with it. Or get SF’s Intimate Strings for $29, which has one of the loveliest string tones you can get for any price (it only lacks legatos).


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## dhmusic (Aug 3, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> I'm by no means no pro composer. Just a hobbyist with a lot of free time.
> 
> 
> Anyways, so I purchased Albion One because it's all I read about on reddit about how it's the best program to use if you want to compose movies/shows. So I bought it. Now that I'm looking more at that site they got way better, cooler sounding programs that I'm interested in.
> ...


If you have the money for it, consider a 1 on 1 mentorship with an experienced composer, or at least a proper consultation. 

lmao there are underemployed pros on here who would melt the faces off those product demos in their sleep. Of course I mean that for every developer, not just spitfire.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 3, 2021)

How do you regret something you haven’t even used? Did you decide to purchase blindly without watching the EXTENSIVE amount of content Spitfire has around Albion ONE? Sounds like you don’t know what you want but just want to buy something. Spitfire has lots of videos on all their products with detailed walkthroughs and how to compose with each one. Watch those. Especially for NEO, Tundra, Chamber Strings.


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## el-bo (Aug 3, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Don't worry I didn't. I chatted with a agent on the website. Waiting for refund.


That's a relief!

My own advice (Not a newb musician, but definitely newer to the idea of orchestral composition) would be more along the lines of those who encourage you to skip this sale. There are going to be more sales, and before the end of this year (Black Friday or Xmas. Normally both).

The fact that you're unsure of what a pizzicato is, and that you are jumping between ensemble libraries and full blown sections/solo libraries makes me think you need a bit of help to work out what you need and what'll serve you well.

Do you need to know the name of that plucky sound, to be able to write great music? Absolutely not. But going from Albion ONE (Strings High/Low) to a dedicated string library, with huge lists of different articulations is likely going to be the kind of overwhelming that might stop you dead in your tracks.

There are many libraries that fall in between the two above extremes, not all of which are going to be offered by Spitfire. Project Sam and Orchestral Tools have libraries that aren't as fully expanded/articulated as dedicated libraries, but come with well-curated sections, in combinations that can inspire (OT literally have libraries caled 'Inspire') you to write and to be aboe to get big ideas down, quickly. And with OT, you can even buy these sections one-by-one. 

And yes...they also will have sales soon.

What do you currently own? Kontakt? Have you downloaded and atarted using Spitfire's LABS? (Some very useable string stuff with that...available for free). What about 'Intimate Strings', from Spitfire @ 29 dollars?

There are lots of ways to get up 'n' running, while you become better-informed of all the choices. Nothing wrong with Reddit, but I think you'll stand a much better chance of getting the answers you need, here.



P.S If 'Solstice' is something that appeals to you, regardless, then maybe that's something to get. Watch all the sptfire walkthroughs, along with independant Youtubers' walkthroughs, if you can.


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## mybadmemory (Aug 3, 2021)

I would suggest the following:

Start with the free and very cheap stuff. Download all the LABS. Get BBCSO Discover, and get any of the Originals you think fit. Then use all of that and hang out here reading and learning until Christmas, at which time another sale is happening. At that time, you’ll know much better what you want and need.


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## dhmusic (Aug 3, 2021)

"If you like 'Groundhog Day' and 'Black Mirror', You'll love VI Control"


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## Mike Fox (Aug 3, 2021)

Check out Christopher Sui’s channel. He has a lot of really helpful videos for beginners.


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## gtrwll (Aug 3, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I would suggest the following:
> 
> Start with the free and very cheap stuff. Download all the LABS. Get BBCSO Discover, and get any of the Originals you think fit. Then use all of that and hang out here reading and learning until Christmas, at which time another sale is happening. At that time, you’ll know much better what you want and need.


This is very sound advice. Don’t be tempted by sales, they’re an industry standard. Some have sales literally all the time, some once in a few months, some once or twice a year. Those who never do sales are rare.

The free stuff is amazingly good nowadays, especially if you’re just starting out. And frankly, even the best of the best software won’t make you a good composer. I know that from experience


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## PaulieDC (Aug 3, 2021)

ka00 said:


> In my opinion, BBCSO Core would be “a good substitute” for Albion One. Has individual instruments not just ensembles and you would learn a lot about the instruments in an orchestra with this.


This.


Akshully, it's all about the sound of the room. Listen to this piece all the way through. If you like the sound of the library in Maida Vale, then BBCSO Core plus Albion Soltice would be quite the toolbox. If you don't, then you know BBCSO isn't for you, and the search continues:



The composer did use BBCSO Pro to select additional mics but you can always upgrade to Pro on Black Friday if needed. Just a thought!


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## dhmusic (Aug 3, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Yea, I will but Spitfire is having a huge sale right now til Sunday. So looks like I'll be going through this forum like cray-cray as Sunday is my deadline lol
> 
> But the main thing I want to get is Solstice. Love the sounds on there.
> 
> I'm debating if I should keep Albion One or if I should find something right for me.



I think the best thing you can do right now is deliberately let this sale pass and sit with the feeling. $50 and a single month well spent learning stuff with EastWest CC would be a way better starting point than just about anything else out there even if you didn't continue using them after, at least you'll have hands on experience you can use to make your own judgements on future investments.

And I say that as someone who got totally burned 10 years ago spending $1200 I didn't have bussing tables for EastWest's Hollywood Strings, Brass, and Woodwinds ("Gold" for gods sake) not knowing they were basically broken in logic Pro at the time. People joke that it's part of the journey but it should't be. That's a journey that vastly benefits developers at the expense of the customer every time.

<edited by moderator>


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## dhmusic (Aug 4, 2021)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This is not ok! Reported!


for what


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## dhmusic (Aug 4, 2021)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Sol Hemochroma


Yo, Sarah your OST for Sol Hemochroma sounds so cool! It's like post-rock Boards of Canada with a tasteful dash of post-punk. Totally my vibe. Great stuff, keep it up!


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## CatOrchestra (Aug 4, 2021)

Spitfire still does not allow the transferring of purchases?

I try now to only buy from companies that allow it.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 4, 2021)

CatOrchestra said:


> Spitfire still does not allow the transferring of purchases?
> 
> I try now to only buy from companies that allow it.


Find many?


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## Laurin Lenschow (Aug 4, 2021)

As you are new to this and there is not really a list of library developers (as far as I know) I just wanted to throw a couple of the big names in here for you to check out before you make any final decisions. (This might be a bit overwhelming at first, but as has previously been said the smartest move for you might be to wait until black friday anyway, so you still have about three months to gather information.)


*Orchestral Tools *- if you are into soft ochestral music, maybe check out Metropolis Ark 2, Berlin Inspire 2, Time Micro and Time Macro. Their other libraries are great as well, but those are the first ones that came to my mind for the type of music you want to write.

*8dio* - this developer is only interesting, if you own the full version of Kontakt. If you do, there really is a lot to discover; don't get wowed by their current 55% off sale though. For 8dio standards, 55% are not that much. They often do flash sales on specific libraries throughout the year with discounts of 70-85%. 8dio's catalogue can be a bit overwhelming at first and while some of their libraries are awesome, some really aren't. For further details I recommend reading this thread:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/curse-you-8dio.106797/
For specific questions you should ask @doctoremmet who is one of the kindest and most active members on this forum. He also describes himself as "the local 8dio fanboy" 

*ProjectSAM* - maybe check out Symphobia 1, 2 and 3. The first two are your usual orchestra together with some cool textures, the third one is specifically aimed at soft fantasy scores.

*Cinesamples *- have a look at their CineSymphony range of products. They have been around for a while but they still sound gorgeus. CineBrass (Core & Pro) and CinePerc are stellar, the winds are ok (imo) and you will hear mixed opinions on the strings - I personally don't like them that much. The CineSymphony range is not specifically aimed at softer music though, it is rather a classic film sound.

I hope this post is somewhat helpful


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## CatOrchestra (Aug 4, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Find many?


I try to not be too strict with such self imposed limitations

Here is a list that might be helpful if you are interested 








KVR Forum: Vendors allowing license transfers - Sell & Buy (+Special Offers, Deals & Promos) Forum


KVR Audio Forum - Vendors allowing license transfers - Sell & Buy (+Special Offers, Deals & Promos) Forum




www.kvraudio.com


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## Jdiggity1 (Aug 4, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> for what


For encouraging piracy. Typically, a ban-worthy offense.


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## Justin L. Franks (Aug 4, 2021)

If you haven't yet downloaded Albion One, you can get a refund and buy something else.


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## wahey73 (Aug 4, 2021)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> *ProjectSAM* - maybe check out Symphobia 1, 2 and 3. The first two are your usual orchestra together with some cool textures, the third one is specifically aimed at soft fantasy scores.
> 
> I hope this post is somewhat helpful


Or in his case (as he asked about the name of pizzicato) ProjectSAM Orchestral Essentials 1&2 would be a great investment and starting point. All Sections, all artciculations, sound design, percussion, choir, piano....all under one hood without complicated things like keyswitches, sample start, mic positions....
In my opinion the perfect starter libraries


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## CatOrchestra (Aug 4, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Find many?


Another list to use is https://www.knobcloud.com/developer-database.php


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## dhmusic (Aug 4, 2021)

Jdiggity1 said:


> For encouraging piracy. Typically, a ban-worthy offense.


oooh-kie-do-kee

for a sarcastic remark that seems a bit "facshy" for my tastes lol

But alas no place is perfect so "if dems the rules dems the rules". Thank you for editing it for me and not banishing me to the nether-realm 

@Henrik B. Jensen 

"hey not sure if you're aware but you should probably change your post before a mod sees it" Or even "Hey dumbass change your post" would have been more helpful I think. I would have just edited the post myself. Anyway no worries man, we cool.

On less chill forums this could attract some really unpleasant trolls. I at least wouldn't broadcast it to everyone like that because it just adds an unnecessary level of anxiety to the air. No matter - Crisis successfully averted.

...so where was I... Ah yes:

Pro tip: "REAL COMPOSERS" EXCLUSIVELY USE GENERAL MIDI


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## Montisquirrel (Aug 4, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> I'm by no means no pro composer. Just a hobbyist with a lot of free time.
> 
> 
> Anyways, so I purchased Albion One because it's all I read about on reddit about how it's the best program to use if you want to compose movies/shows. So I bought it. Now that I'm looking more at that site they got way better, cooler sounding programs that I'm interested in.
> ...


Like others said, start with the free stuff and learn how to write music. If you are new to this it doesn't matter which library you buy, you will always regret buying it because it will not sound like the developers demos out of the box (everybody here had this experience in the past).

You will not paint like Van Gogh after buying the same paintbrushes and colours he has used.


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## puremusic (Aug 4, 2021)

It's hard to miss with Spitfire's stuff, the raw sound is consistently great. Just keep listening to their various libraries. For what it's worth I'd suggesting trying to pick one that has some "performance" legato patches -- it's a lot easier to play something that adapts to your keyboard playing immediately rather than constantly switching articulations by pressing keys. Unless you like writing the music in the piano roll first more rather than live entry.

Do a lot of critical listening, and watching walkthroughs. Does the library do what you want for your music rather than just sound cool? Is there a song you'd use it in right now? Are you actually hearing the library's raw sound or is the walkthrough or demo using external FX too? You'll waste money due to hype someday, everyone does, and that'll be a painful lesson that'll help reinforce doing more of that critical listening, but why not do your best to make that day longer in the future future rather than soon to come?

Sometimes a big purchase is the right way to go -- you save money rather than buying lesser quality products you won't use much and building up. I did that with the Spitfire Symphony Orchestra, great decision. Lots of older orchestral libraries that in the past were fine, and now are less expensive, but nowadays are far less easy to get great results from.

Each developer has their own way of programming their libraries.. 8dio makes great sounding demos for example but I don't like actually using their libraries, each time it's a miss for me and I can't reproduce the great music in the demos, so they're a developer I tend to regret buying from the most. If I'd paid more attention to the way they design things with their cheaper libraries and free offerings, I might've avoided spending bigger money due to sales hype.. they always have sales anyway, one of the tops for always sales, so you can always wait longer. Some people are great with 8dio, just not me, different developers suit different people.

Even your favorite developers leave you disappointed at times too.. c'est la vie. Do more critical listening. Don't buy because it's about to dissappear or half off. Buy it because you it's really useful to you today. For what it's worth. . two cents.


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## uselessmind (Aug 4, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I would suggest the following:
> 
> Start with the free and very cheap stuff. Download all the LABS. Get BBCSO Discover, and get any of the Originals you think fit. Then use all of that and hang out here reading and learning until Christmas, at which time another sale is happening. At that time, you’ll know much better what you want and need.


Another vote for this. Learn about and practice composing for a while. Then if you want to learn to orchestrate, practice that using something like BBCSO Discover (which is not good at all,  but good enough to get started) and other free stuff.
Dont feel pressured by sales, they come back as well as new stuff will come out that will go on sale eventually.


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## Karmand (Aug 4, 2021)

I do have some regrets about buying some sample libs - like Albion One, Zimmer Perc, Earth - but a wise person told me: "Explore, use what's good, check out all your gear, sounds, mics, etc before upgrading or selling or buying more."
In my case I've used Albion one for some specific ostinatos, big hits (some great perf in there) and ambiances. 
Now, I remember reading Spitfire may return your purchase IF you did not download it.

I own several SF libs now - the only one I want is Chamber Strings to go with the rest of SSO - but I will wait for Black Friday-Christmas sale. I"m using BBCSO Pro for most initial writing, then replacing or accenting sounds from other libs - including competitors.

I'm a noob too- since January. I've followed this forum a lot and keep learning here.


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## tc9000 (Aug 4, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Wow, that was a very detailed answer. I'm going to have to re-read all that again to better understand as this is all new to me and I have a lot to learn and a lot to hear. I'll check out Neo. As for Chamber Strings I have that on my wish list.
> 
> Since you know your stuff there's this piece I like in Pan's Labyrnith called "Pan's Lullaby." It's so beautiful but would Tundra or Neo get something close to this (not the voice but the instruments)?
> 
> ...



I listened to this track - its got a lovely warm feel (with a pinch of menace). It is romantic and has a cinematic fantasy quality to it. Very nice. Its a good sign that you have an idea of what you are going for. I suggest you collect these 'target' references and refer back to them from time to time.

I can hear a string section (its not huge? more of a chamber string sound?), a piano, perhaps a choir too (though it could be a synthesiser emulating a choir).

As others have already said, it will help you to learn the names of string articulations - legato, pizzicatto, and so on. [EDIT: re-read your post] I recommend developing your keyboard playing.

Christian Henson has created a lot of useful content for getting started in this area - here's an example:



Libraries that come to mind are (note that this is very subjective - this is just what I would reach for):

- Spitfire Chamber Strings
- Simple Sam Samples signature grand
- A choir such as EW Hollywood Choirs / Strezov Freya / Genesis maybe?

But - as others have wisely said - take your time and do lots of research before buying anything - sales are happening all the time.

One more tip: learn to differentiate between 'naked' demos (where you can hear the library played as it sounds out of the box, no processing, no accompanying instruments) and 'in context' demos where all kinds of other things are happening - processing, other intruments, etc.


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## easyrider (Aug 4, 2021)

Albion One Rocks!


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## mybadmemory (Aug 4, 2021)

All libraries sound different and have different worlflows. I think you need to decide upon 1. which sound you like (old school epic, modern epic, Hollywood, classical, Scandi, etc) and 2. which workflow (ensemble based or section based) you want first.


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## Ricgus3 (Aug 4, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Wow, that was a very detailed answer. I'm going to have to re-read all that again to better understand as this is all new to me and I have a lot to learn and a lot to hear. I'll check out Neo. As for Chamber Strings I have that on my wish list.
> 
> Since you know your stuff there's this piece I like in Pan's Labyrnith called "Pan's Lullaby." It's so beautiful but would Tundra or Neo get something close to this (not the voice but the instruments)?
> 
> ...



I think chamber strings would be great if you can afford it. Otherwise you should listen to studio strings ) both pro and core are great). Pro has divisi section, which means even less players = more intimate string details


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## ism (Aug 4, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Wow, that was a very detailed answer. I'm going to have to re-read all that again to better understand as this is all new to me and I have a lot to learn and a lot to hear. I'll check out Neo. As for Chamber Strings I have that on my wish list.
> 
> Since you know your stuff there's this piece I like in Pan's Labyrnith called "Pan's Lullaby." It's so beautiful but would Tundra or Neo get something close to this (not the voice but the instruments)?
> 
> ...



Yep, Albion One is going to struggle with these dynamics. I’d suggest, BBCSO, or else SCS + SSW would get you closer. Or if you really want an ensemble library, maybe Neo. (Tundra is wonderful also, but it doesn’t have the kind of legato that this piece requires).

SSO Costs more, but in retrospect, if I’d just bought SSO in the first place and not messed around with all these ensemble libraries and other nice-to-have little libraries, it would have saved really quite a lot money in the end.


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## jcrosby (Aug 4, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> I'm by no means no pro composer. Just a hobbyist with a lot of free time.
> 
> 
> Anyways, so I purchased Albion One because it's all I read about on reddit about how it's the best program to use if you want to compose movies/shows. So I bought it. Now that I'm looking more at that site they got way better, cooler sounding programs that I'm interested in.
> ...


Albion's totally fine. As a 1st, and/or early choice for someone new to this it's a great place to start. I still use it 6+ years after buying it. (And I have a lot of libraries to choose from). What exactly are you after?

Basically it sounds like you're very new to this, in which case Albion gives you a fantastic foundation, especially with its multiple percussion kits, synthesis patches, loops, etc. There's a ton of content in there, in addition to it being a solid all around orchestral ensemble library.

And I have to be honest. If you're not happy with Albion One I just don't see you being any happier with Solstice. Solstice is SUPER niche, it's use cases are much more limited than Albion One. If you feel Albion One doesn't offer you a good composition foundation it's pretty safe to assume you'll regret Solstice even more.

Tundra is the same story. It is Not a general composition library. It's specially for adding texture and atmosphere to embellish more traditional libraries like Albion One. It isn't a substitute for Albion One as a complete composition library, like Solstice it fills a very specific niche. Again, I think it's very safe to assume you'd find yourself with buyers remorse again...

Honestly it sounds like you should instead spend sometime understanding the foundations of composing instead of chasing sample libraries. At some point you need to pick a tool as a foundation to learn from, and Albion One is a solid choice for anyone still getting their feet wet. Out of all of the Albions, Albion One is the most well rounded by a mile.


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## Fab (Aug 4, 2021)

It might be worth considering a subscription based sample library bundle (like composer cloud) for a few months. If you aren't too sure what you want yet there is probably enough content in there to tide you over while you figure things out. It might even save you accidentally buying libraries, a lot of developers don't do refunds (check their TACs).


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## RogiervG (Aug 4, 2021)

Not to be that guy but... :
Next time, do your wallet a favor and do deep research before hitting the checkout button. 
Never fall for marketing alone.. always check the product, through walktroughs from users, demos users made and read reviews by users. (and check on vi-c, to have a direct contact with users about the products)


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## dhmusic (Aug 4, 2021)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Maybe so, but on this forum we have many sample library developers who put food on the table every day from the software sales they make, so to write a post that encourages another member to do software piracy… maybe look in the mirror here.
> 
> Anyway, this is OT, so enough about that from me.


Ah yes, of course. I clearly have much reflecting to do. You have proven to be a most gracious gentleman, Henrik B. Jensen. Thank you.

FIN


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## ism (Aug 4, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Albion's totally fine. As a 1st, and/or early choice for someone new to this it's a great place to start. I still use it 6+ years after buying it. (And I have a lot of libraries to choose from). What exactly are you after?
> 
> Basically it sounds like you're very new to this, in which case Albion gives you a fantastic foundation, especially with its multiple percussion kits, synthesis patches, loops, etc. There's a ton of content in there, in addition to it being a solid all around orchestral ensemble library.
> 
> ...


Albion is great for epic tracks and a certain type of film scoring. But it's just not that good for anything soft (for instance). The high winds, for instance, are incredibly aggressive. I've got almost no use out of it because (as I now know) I'm just not interested in writing that kind of music.

Tundra, Solstice, Neo, SCS, SSW etc all represent totally different universes of musicality. I can very easily imagine someone loving Solstice, for instance, as a first library and not A1.


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## Jackdnp121 (Aug 4, 2021)

there is no perfect library but the one you know it really well. I have the same feeling about Albion one when I first got it , but since I can’t return it , I spent time digging into it and oh boy was I wrong . it is a great layering library with fat sound but of course you will need librarys like bbcso or ccs too but to me Albion one is definitely a library to keep. And before you fell into the endless world of vst buying , remember , orchestration is usually the problem , Not new library. Cheers all the best 🎉


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## jcrosby (Aug 4, 2021)

ism said:


> I'm just not interested in writing that kind of music.


What is "that kind of music" curiously?


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## robgb (Aug 4, 2021)

I made that mistake years ago. It sits on my hard drive, hardly used.


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## ism (Aug 4, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> What is "that kind of music" curiously?


The kind of music that comes out when I play with Albion One. 

Though seriously, Albion One is, just like it says on the box, geared, generally, reasonably aggressive film & trailer music. You can obviously push it in quieter, more subtly, directions. Sometimes this will work, but at some point you start working against the library. The very aggressive high winds are a clear example of this, you simply can’t write with them the kind of nuance and subtly detail and texture in your winds with Albion One that you can with SSW, for instance.

The legacy wind shorts are lovely though, as are the low strings. 

None of this is a criticism of Albion One, just a recognition that Tundra, Tallinn, SSW, SCS, OACE etc are closer to whatever it is I’m trying to write. And. perhaps more to the point, that Albion is a great starting point for a certain style of music - but it’s a terrible starting point for other styles.


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## StillLife (Aug 4, 2021)

el-bo said:


> That's a relief!
> 
> My own advice (Not a newb musician, but definitely newer to the idea of orchestral composition) would be more along the lines of those who encourage you to skip this sale. There are going to be more sales, and before the end of this year (Black Friday or Xmas. Normally both).
> 
> ...


This is a really good post, just for the fact it really responds to what the op wrote. 
I am thinking along these lines: if you really want to buy something, go for what sounds great to you (Solstice, it seems). But, otherwise, take the time to learn about this stuff. I'm thinking: don't buy specialized stuff like scs, symphonic ww yet. These will cost you much more than Solstice and leave you with tons of patches that are really just articilations that need to be programmed, or keyswitched. Since you're not a keyboardist, that might feel real awkward/unpractical/unmusical to you. I fear you'll only use the ensemble patch in SCS. Much better to buy a dedicated ensemble library, then.


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## szczaw (Aug 4, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> $50 and a single month well spent learning stuff with EastWest CC would be a way better starting point


CCX is only $20 per month now.


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## jcrosby (Aug 4, 2021)

ism said:


> The kind of music that comes out when I play with Albion One.
> 
> Though seriously, Albion One is, just like it says on the box, geared, generally, reasonably aggressive film & trailer music. You can obviously push it in quieter, more subtly, directions. Sometimes this will work, but at some point you start working against the library. The very aggressive high winds are a clear example of this, you simply can’t write with them the kind of nuance and subtly detail and texture in your winds with Albion One that you can with SSW, for instance.
> 
> ...


Respectfully I disagree. You can cover most general orchestral genres with Albion One. Especially given that the legacy patches are part of the package.

If you think Albion One's high winds are harsh I'm willing to bet that you haven't ever loaded the legacy patches. They're more limited in articulation, but they give you an entirely different timbre that is nothing like the patches in 'Albion One Orchestra'. They couldn't be more night and day.

As far as trailers go. Albion would hardly be a 1st choice these days. In fact many trailer composers love CSS and use it as their bread and butter string library, and Albion One's brass is quite tame even compared to something more traditional like Cinebrass. Albion One's better suited toward being used as a layering library in a hybrid context.

A lot of fantastic non 'epic' music has been made with Albion/Albion One over the years. Before the days of "One", and a seemingly infinite choice of orchestral sample libraries, Albion was almost certainly one of the most popular ensemble libraries around.


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## jbuhler (Aug 4, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Respectfully I disagree. You can cover most general orchestral genres with Albion One. Especially given that the legacy patches are part of the package.
> 
> If you think Albion One's high winds are harsh I'm willing to bet that you haven't ever loaded the legacy patches. They're more limited in articulation, but they give you an entirely different timbre that is nothing like the patches in 'Albion One Orchestra'. They couldn't be more night and day.
> 
> ...


If you try to write delicate music with Albion One it’s like trying to hammer a screw. So you do have to have the correct tool…

I like Albion One and still use it. You can write a certain kind of orchestral music very quickly with it, and it fits neatly with SSO if you want to sketch and then fill in a bit of detail. But there are types of orchestral music that it is not well suited to. I don’t think it should be controversial to say that.


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 4, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Respectfully I disagree. You can cover most general orchestral genres with Albion One. Especially given that the legacy patches are part of the package.
> 
> If you think Albion One's high winds are harsh I'm willing to bet that you haven't ever loaded the legacy patches. They're more limited in articulation, but they give you an entirely different timbre that is nothing like the patches in 'Albion One Orchestra'. They couldn't be more night and day.
> 
> ...


What does "SSW, SCS, OACE" mean?


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## colony nofi (Aug 4, 2021)

There's tonnes of great advice in this thread already - I wasn't really sure if my 2p was worth it.
But something that seems missing is talking about what level of composition you're at - and what it is that you want to achieve.

Writing with orchestral libraries and getting them to sound great is HARD.
Some libs are easier to get an ok sound from than others. Realism is what so many want, but the libs will never be that. And thats ok. For this, I like the spitfire approach - these are tools to help you write, but you'll prob want to replace with live musicans if you can... and if not, here's a bunch of designed stuff to go along with it thats excellent and has its own place.

PLEASE get BBC Discover. $50. And learn it inside out. Practice writing. If it can't do a sound, just try either write around it or mess around with orchestration or techniques. Midi actually allows you to do so much with these libraries once you step away from "it HAS to sound exactly like an orchestra" mode.

There was awesome advice earlier regarding the lower cost spitfire instruments as well. They're great. Get all the Labs you can. Go on piano book. You can make entire scores from all those free libs. 

Some of the other lib developers have similar low cost libraries. These are the ones to get.

Make sure you have some creative synth chops / sound design chops in there as well. Even if you don't want to learn. They will in the end HELP express whats in your head one day. ITs amazing what one can do with omnisphere or zebra in otherwise completely orchestral contexts. Especially pads.

I have too many libraries. Seriously. I keep coming back to things I've never even scratched the surface of. 80% of the writing I do would be with 20% of my libraries. And thats ok - I've been buying / using libraries for 20+ years. They're my tool kit that allows me to work. The barrier to entry today is extraordinarily low compared to 20 years ago with VSL symphonic cube and EW (although I seem to remember discovering EW after VSL... hazy memories. I *DO* remember only working off AKAI samplers... and this https://www.roland.com/au/products/vs-880/
and 2"
and DA88's
Beta video decks chasing timecode
and using Ensoniq samplers...
and GM!
Oh - and (35ish) years ago seeing a score for a composition I wrote being "printed out" for a choir at age 8... seeing that person work the machine (I wish I could remember the software he was using)was something that blew my mind. 

Why do I bring this up? You can't REALLY go wrong. Explore. Have fun. Don't spend too much cash, but if you do make a wrong decision, embrace it and learn the library anyway. You'll be a better composer 10 weeks later having written a bunch of stuff you never expected to write.


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## FireGS (Aug 4, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> What does "SSW, SCS, OACE" mean?








Glossary of VI-C Abbreviations


AAF: Able Artist Foundation (link) AAX: Avid Audio Extension (plugin format created for Pro Tools) AB: Adventure Brass (Music Sampling) AD/AD2: Addictive Drums (XLN Audio) AI: Audio Imperia ALB1/ALB2/ALB3/etc: Albion Series (Spitfire) ALBO: Albion ONE (Spitfire) AM: Audio Modeling AMS: Aleatoric...




vi-control.net


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## jcrosby (Aug 4, 2021)

colony nofi said:


> Writing with orchestral libraries and getting them to sound great is HARD.
> Some libs are easier to get an ok sound from than others. Realism is what so many want, but the libs will never be that. And thats ok. For this, I like the spitfire approach - these are tools to help you write, but you'll prob want to replace with live musicans if you can... and if not, here's a bunch of designed stuff to go along with it thats excellent and has its own place.
> 
> PLEASE get BBC Discover. $50. And learn it inside out. Practice writing. If it can't do a sound, just try either write around it or mess around with orchestration or techniques. Midi actually allows you to do so much with these libraries once you step away from "it HAS to sound exactly like an orchestra" mode.


Honestly? This is probably the most solid advice in the thread so far. I always forget they even offer Discover for an incredibly modest $50... The main point I'm trying to convey is that the OP isn't happy with Albion One, which is totally fair... That said they also don't know what pizzicato is which is an indication of them starting from square one...

Trying to navigate a behemoth like HZ Strings with no knowledge of basic articulations is like jumping straight into the deep end the 1st time you go swimming.

Ultimately I'm just suggesting that OP would probably be best served by considering the perspective of _You have to learn how to crawl before you can walk_ and start with a simple ensemble library that teaches them some important simple principles before diving into something like HZS where they're likely to find themselves lost amidst the articulation and mic choices.


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## Sarah Mancuso (Aug 4, 2021)

I'm not convinced that starting from square one means _needing _to use ensemble libraries.

I knew virtually nothing about strings arrangement when I bought Spitfire Chamber Strings. The "Basic Orchestration Principles" page in the Chamber Strings manual that opens with "we wouldn't dream of trying to sum up the principles of string orchestration in a single page of a user manual" was my actual starting point, haha.


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## jcrosby (Aug 4, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> What does "SSW, SCS, OACE" mean?


Think you mean to quote someone else...

Spitfire Symphonic Woodinds
Spitfire Chamber Strings
Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions


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## jbuhler (Aug 4, 2021)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I'm not convinced that starting from square one means _needing _to use ensemble libraries.
> 
> I knew virtually nothing about strings arrangement when I bought Spitfire Chamber Strings. The "Basic Orchestration Principles" page in the Chamber Strings manual that opens with "we wouldn't dream of trying to sum up the principles of string orchestration in a single page of a user manual" was my actual starting point, haha.


Yes, and SCS comes with a very nice ensemble patch. It’s one reason I think SCS is actually not a bad place to start, assuming money isn’t an issue, even though the library as a whole is very deep and complex. The library works well for a beginner but it also works well for the seasoned professional. 

Ensemble libraries do offer simplicity in terms of a limited number of tracks to manage. That can be helpful for some starting out, and it can be very helpful when working at speed, but there are of course many paths.


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 4, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, and SCS comes with a very nice ensemble patch. It’s one reason I think SCS is actually not a bad place to start, assuming money isn’t an issue, even though the library as a whole is very deep and complex. The library works well for a beginner but it also works well for the seasoned professional.
> 
> Ensemble libraries do offer simplicity in terms of a limited number of tracks to manage. That can be helpful for some starting out, and it can be very helpful when working at speed, but there are of course many paths.


Okay I'm getting so many good answers now I'm overwhelmed going through reading them all.. I spent all day reading and watching videos and I'm really liking Spitfire Chamber Strings. It's exactly what I'm looking for. Nothing to big sounding. Something intimate. The others I listed earlier on post I don't know bout but for sure I love SCS.

I just want a few libraries to mess around with, have fun and something that would suite my needs right now. I like writing small pieces on my guitar and then go on garageband and use their stock plugins and use my computer keyboard and finger the chords on my computer keys or punch it in (I plan to buy logic pro next week)


I'm a amateur at this but I'd like to redo this piece I wrote (will post youtube link below) and buy better libraries rather then the stock plugins I used on garage band. I also bought a midi keyboard so I can finger the arrangement on that instead of macbook keyboard.


So for the instruments that I used on that piece what else would I need to buy or what would you recommend? I want something with a good harp and brass as I plan to do similar tunes in that style.


I'm not trying to be a composer for like film/tv. I just always wanted to compose some of my guitar arrangement and include my guitar on some pieces that I wrote with some great sounding libraries.

I have extra money right now and a lot of time to kill so I'd thought why not. This is just for my own amusement and to pass time.


Thanks again. You've been very helpful. I enjoy your knowledge and wisdom


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## el-bo (Aug 4, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


>



Really nice little piece, man! But yeah...you definitely need better sounds


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## jbuhler (Aug 4, 2021)

Have you looked at the SF Intimate Strings for $29? I really think it might answer your desire to have something to play around with, and a sound that is quite similar to the SCS ensemble patch. Intimate Strings lacks legato but otherwise has a nice set of articulations. And in terms of sound, I don’t think there’s another SF string library that sounds better. (This library was originally part of the now discontinued Albion Loegria, though it also had a beautiful legato in that version.)


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 4, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Have you looked at the SF Intimate Strings for $29? I really think it might answer your desire to have something to play around with, and a sound that is quite similar to the SCS ensemble patch. Intimate Strings lacks legato but otherwise has a nice set of articulations. And in terms of sound, I don’t think there’s another SF string library that sounds better. (This library was originally part of the now discontinued Albion Loegria, though it also had a beautiful legato in that version.)


Yea, it sounds nice. But right now I got my eyes on Spitfire Chamber Strings. It sounds so pretty lol and has a ton of features.


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## jbuhler (Aug 4, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Yea, it sounds nice. But right now I got my eyes on Spitfire Chamber Strings. It sounds so pretty lol and has a ton of features.


That it does, and SCS is one of my all-time favorite libraries. 

One thing you will need to work on with all of these libraries is riding the modwheel and expression to shape your lines. You'll need to get an external SSD to store your libraries on. And I would think about getting Logic as well, because that will offer a lot of advantages over Garageband.


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 4, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> That it does, and SCS is one of my all-time favorite libraries.
> 
> One thing you will need to work on with all of these libraries is riding the modwheel and expression to shape your lines. You'll need to get an external SSD to store your libraries on. And I would think about getting Logic as well, because that will offer a lot of advantages over Garageband.


Is there a external SSD you recommend? 

Right now I'm just using a 

Apple - MacBook Pro - 13" Display with Touch Bar - Intel Core i5 - 16GB Memory - 512GB SSD (Latest Model) - Space Gray


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## jbuhler (Aug 5, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Is there a external SSD you recommend?
> 
> Right now I'm just using a
> 
> Apple - MacBook Pro - 13" Display with Touch Bar - Intel Core i5 - 16GB Memory - 512GB SSD (Latest Model) - Space Gray


Anything will do. A lot of folks like Samsung and Crucial. You'll likely be looking for a USB-C SSD. I usually buy whatever is reasonable at the time I'm looking. And I usually buy SATA3 and put them in my own enclosures. You probably want at least 1TB, maybe 2TB. 

In any case, running sample libraries off your internal SSD is not really viable—the regular version of SCS takes roughly 90GB—and really you should be printing your audio to an external drive as well, ideally a different one from the one you are keeping your samples on. Obviously, you quickly run out of ports, which is why you will soon end up with hubs and such as well. And you'll also discover that your 13" screen doesn't give you much screen real estate to work with as you lay out your music and start using more tracks. So you'll probably be looking at a larger external monitor in the near future. The 16GB of memory should work ok—it will definitely work with the ensemble patch and a few others. It's been a long time since I've worked with 16GB, but I recall needing to restrict myself to one microphone position, and the basic articulations for each section, if I was going to have many other tracks. 

In any case, that's all in the future, and you don't need to address everything at once. Immediately, you will need the SSD if you want to be able to use SCS.


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## TomislavEP (Aug 5, 2021)

I wholeheartedly agree that OP should try to explore/exploit the Originals, BBCSO Discover, LABS, as well as Pianobook as much as possible before buying something else. Despite being affordable and even free, the mentioned products are by no means joke and contain many qualities and traits that one usually associates with Spitfire Audio. I often wish that these were available back when I've started to build my sound collection; they could save me quite some money then. For comparison, I've entered the SA world by buying the original "Albion" for abt. 600€ in 2015. Although I now feel that I've made a bad choice, it is only due to the amount I've paid for it, but not its sound and features. I still extensively use the sounds from both the Legacy and Loegria libraries in addition to Tundra, OACE, BDT, Earth, and a few other Spitfire titles. Personally, I'm not really a purist so these types of orchestral libraries suit me more than the traditional ones like BBCSO and fit better into my workflow. I also prefer the sounds of Legacy and Loegria in comparison to One and Neo. It all depends on your needs and preferences.


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## el-bo (Aug 5, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> In any case, running sample libraries off your internal SSD is not really viable—the regular version of SCS takes roughly 90GB—and really you should be printing your audio to an external drive as well, ideally a different one from the one you are keeping your samples on.


That was definitely important advice back when we were all using spinning drives, but from what I gather, even from the earliest ssd's, the IOPS seemed to be able to handle dealing with all of these actions on the same drive. 

All my samples are held on my boot-drive, and all my current projects' audio is recorded to the same drive. And while I'm not running hundreds of tracks, I've never experienced any real amount of pressure from the disk i/o portion of Logic's activity monitor.

Is it that when you get to very large projects (I'm assuming you do) that performance noticeably declines?


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## easyrider (Aug 5, 2021)

robgb said:


> I made that mistake years ago. It sits on my hard drive, hardly used.


The runs are great….


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## mybadmemory (Aug 5, 2021)

I don't see any need to buy an external SSD unless the library doesn't actually fit on the internal drive. I only got an additional drive when my internal one was filling up, in order to fit more libraries. I never had any problem at all running them from the internal. Was even loading faster than from the external one.


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## jbuhler (Aug 5, 2021)

el-bo said:


> That was definitely important advice back when we were all using spinning drives, but from what I gather, even from the earliest ssd's, the IOPS seemed to be able to handle dealing with all of these actions on the same drive.
> 
> All my samples are held on my boot-drive, and all my current projects' audio is recorded to the same drive. And while I'm not running hundreds of tracks, I've never experienced any real amount of pressure from the disk i/o portion of Logic's activity monitor.
> 
> Is it that when you get to very large projects (I'm assuming you do) that performance noticeably declines?


I think the idea is that you still don't want all those writes to your sample drive due to the technology of SSDs. But it's probably not mission critical and may indeed represent an old rule of thumb that is no longer relevant.

As for using the system drive, as big an issue there is the space. OP has only 512GB on system drive. If the library had been smaller or the drive bigger, I wouldn't have said anything, but those 512GB drives don't give you much space to begin with, and 90GB is a large portion of that drive.


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## el-bo (Aug 5, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I think the idea is that you still don't want all those writes to your sample drive due to the technology of SSDs. But it's probably not mission critical and may indeed represent an old rule of thumb that is no longer relevant.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure that at least for the last few years that even standard pro-sumer ssd's are rated at enough writes to cover most situations and for many years.



jbuhler said:


> As for using the system drive, as big an issue there is the space. OP has only 512GB on system drive. If the library had been smaller or the drive bigger, I wouldn't have said anything, but those 512GB drives don't give you much space to begin with, and 90GB is a large portion of that drive.


Ah, ok...gotcha. i was arguing for the principal of it being possible to work solely with one drive. I'd missed that the OP only had that amount of space.


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 5, 2021)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> The "Basic Orchestration Principles" page in the Chamber Strings manual that opens with "we wouldn't dream of trying to sum up the principles of string orchestration in a single page of a user manual" was my actual starting point, haha.


Wow! It actually in the manual? Wow! I understand the education curve, right there. I think that’s why the purchase of SCS really pays.


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## Sarah Mancuso (Aug 5, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Wow! It actually in the manual? Wow! I understand the education curve, right there. I think that’s why the purchase of SCS really pays.


Yes! The manual is linked on the product page on Spitfire's website, too: https://d1t3zg51rvnesz.cloudfront.net/p/files/product-manuals/3647/1621006047/Chamber Strings.pdf


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## Mike Fox (Aug 5, 2021)

easyrider said:


> The runs are great….


Not when you’ve had them for a week. 

Oh, wait! You meant _those_ runs!


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 5, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> That it does, and SCS is one of my all-time favorite libraries.


So I got SCS on my cart. All day I've been watching Albion Neo videos. But for brass and percussion, what would mingle with SCS? I know there are a ton of libraries but is there any brass and percussion libraries that would blend well with SCS? Do you have any recommendations so I can check them out on youtube?

Again, I really appreciate all of your help. Thank you


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## ism (Aug 5, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Respectfully I disagree. You can cover most general orchestral genres with Albion One. Especially given that the legacy patches are part of the package.
> 
> If you think Albion One's high winds are harsh I'm willing to bet that you haven't ever loaded the legacy patches. They're more limited in articulation, but they give you an entirely different timbre that is nothing like the patches in 'Albion One Orchestra'. They couldn't be more night and day.
> 
> ...



A carpenter trying to carve miniature figurines with a jackhammer might reasonably question the orthodoxy of “A good carpenter doesn't blame his tools”, which at some point starts to resemble a form of

Albion One is, very explcitly, designed, orchestrated, performed and recorded for what I’d argue is quite a narrow range of orchestral styles. It’s perhps true that it suits a majority of people here on vi-c, and perhaps even majoroty of people getting into media composing (with notable exceptions like Sarah, who’s music leans more towards the nuanced and texural than bombastic trombone ostinato). In some of the videos, Paul talks about studing scores written in this epic/filmic genre and realizing that 90% of the time these are the orchestrations used. For instance, except for a narrow range in the mid strings, all the strings are in octaves. Which is an orchestration effect that I would almost never use, and to have the strings *always* in octaves is deeply irritating when you’re writing in almost any other narrow set of genres of ths kind of the full throated orchestral epic.

I’m not saying a great composer can’t push Albion One beyond the limits of it’s very narrow genre. Just that trying to do attempt to do - especially as a beginner - can be an extremely painful experience, not unlike composing in a straight jacket, or carving miniature figurines with a jackhammer and wondering why you always get mediocre results. At some point, yes you've got to blame the tools. But we have such a weather of tools offering much finer brush strokes available not, so if you're not writing in this style, in 2021, there's just no reason to start with a library so narrowly focused on this style. 


(SCS + SSW, for instance, being a great place to start for anyone looking for finer brushstrokes and a wide range of colors).


----------



## jbuhler (Aug 5, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> So I got SCS on my cart. All day I've been watching Albion Neo videos. But for brass and percussion, what would mingle with SCS? I know there are a ton of libraries but is there any brass and percussion libraries that would blend well with SCS? Do you have any recommendations so I can check them out on youtube?
> 
> Again, I really appreciate all of your help. Thank you


Look at the Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra with SCS: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/sso-chamber-strings-edition/

Given the sounds you like it’s strange that you want brass but not woodwinds, which is a better match with the styles you’ve described. 

But Really I’d wait to get the rest until after you’ve had a chance to play with SCS. The bundle will be on sale again at the end of the year for 30% off and you’ll get credit for SCS when you buy the bundle. But you want to make sure you get along with SF instruments before you make the plunge. Spitfire percussion is a good match to SF libraries recorded in Air. 

If you are going for a full orchestra, I’d also think seriously about BBCSO instead of SCS, SSW, SSB and Percussion. BBCSO has a somewhat larger string section but a complete orchestra, with solo strings, percussion and so forth. I don’t have it because it’s redundant with much the I already have but I very much like the sound.


----------



## bleupalmtree (Aug 5, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Look at the Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra with SCS: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/sso-chamber-strings-edition/
> 
> Given the sounds you like it’s strange that you want brass but not woodwinds, which is a better match with the styles you’ve described.
> 
> ...


Don't worry I'm not buying nothing yet. I just like keeping my options open and stuff to watch on youtube. I learned my lesson with just buying something just cause an ad looks cool on a video. Who they hired Don Draper?

If I can just change topic real quick. So I've never owned monitors before. Usually I just use Macbook Speakers. I don't really want to break the bank so I've given myself a budget of around 500.

I'm looking at
PreSonus Eris E4.5 2-Way 4.5"​
and

Yamaha HS5 Powered Studio Monitor​
For the libraries I'm looking at which one would be better? Would it be worth spending the extra for HS5?


----------



## VSriHarsha (Aug 5, 2021)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Yes! The manual is linked on the product page on Spitfire's website, too: https://d1t3zg51rvnesz.cloudfront.net/p/files/product-manuals/3647/1621006047/Chamber Strings.pdf


Cool! Thanks @Sarah Mancuso !


----------



## jbuhler (Aug 5, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Don't worry I'm not buying nothing yet. I just like keeping my options open and stuff to watch on youtube. I learned my lesson with just buying something just cause an ad looks cool on a video. Who they hired Don Draper?
> 
> If I can just change topic real quick. So I've never owned monitors before. Usually I just use Macbook Speakers. I don't really want to break the bank so I've given myself a budget of around 500.
> 
> ...


I have a pair of HS5s in my home studio and like them quite a lot. You do have to use headphones with them to check the lows so eventually I also picked up the HS8S subwoofer. (To avoid a subwoofer you generally need to get 7" or 8" monitors, or so I'm told.) The HS5s aren't especially flattering to the sound, but they are mostly honest (at least with monitors in this price range), and I find mixes translate well to other systems. That doesn't mean I mix especially well, mind you, just that my mixes don't surprise me when I move them from one system to another.


----------



## Wally Garten (Aug 5, 2021)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I'm not convinced that starting from square one means _needing _to use ensemble libraries.
> 
> I knew virtually nothing about strings arrangement when I bought Spitfire Chamber Strings. The "Basic Orchestration Principles" page in the Chamber Strings manual that opens with "we wouldn't dream of trying to sum up the principles of string orchestration in a single page of a user manual" was my actual starting point, haha.


Just looked up that manual — that’s a pretty good read!


----------



## mybadmemory (Aug 5, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Don't worry I'm not buying nothing yet. I just like keeping my options open and stuff to watch on youtube. I learned my lesson with just buying something just cause an ad looks cool on a video. Who they hired Don Draper?
> 
> If I can just change topic real quick. So I've never owned monitors before. Usually I just use Macbook Speakers. I don't really want to break the bank so I've given myself a budget of around 500.
> 
> ...


The HS5 are fine but you will need a pair of decent headphobes as well. And I would actually start with those and add the monitors later. Check out AKG K240, Sennheiser HD600, or Beyer DT770/880/990.


----------



## Fab (Aug 6, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> The HS5 are fine but you will need a pair of decent headphobes as well. And I would actually start with those and add the monitors later. Check out AKG K240, Sennheiser HD600, or Beyer DT770/880/990.


Headphones only is not good, I believe they can damage your ears if you are not careful (especially try to avoid long sessions).


----------



## Trash Panda (Aug 6, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Don't worry I'm not buying nothing yet. I just like keeping my options open and stuff to watch on youtube. I learned my lesson with just buying something just cause an ad looks cool on a video. Who they hired Don Draper?
> 
> If I can just change topic real quick. So I've never owned monitors before. Usually I just use Macbook Speakers. I don't really want to break the bank so I've given myself a budget of around 500.
> 
> ...


Try checking out the Kali LP6 monitors for around $300 a pair. They’re widely regarded as the best budget monitors available and are currently cheaper than others with similar build quality because of the lack of widespread brand recognition.


----------



## SupremeFist (Aug 6, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I have a pair of HS5s in my home studio and like them quite a lot. You do have to use headphones with them to check the lows so eventually I also picked up the HS8S subwoofer. (To avoid a subwoofer you generally need to get 7" or 8" monitors, or so I'm told.) The HS5s aren't especially flattering to the sound, but they are mostly honest (at least with monitors in this price range), and I find mixes translate well to other systems. That doesn't mean I mix especially well, mind you, just that my mixes don't surprise me when I move them from one system to another.


I have the Yamaha MSP5s (precursor to HS5) plus the HS8S too and it's a very nice setup, but I'm going to be that guy and say that unless you have an expensively treated room (I don't), then Slate VSX is the way to go every time at this budget.


----------



## MA-Simon (Aug 6, 2021)

Just get the Cinematic Studio Lienup and be done with it. https://cinematicstudioseries.com/
This should be anyones starting point. Honestly, anything else is a mistake. What you need is a solid foundation. After that anything else is an addition.


----------



## from_theashes (Aug 6, 2021)

MA-Simon said:


> Just get the Cinematic Studio Lienup and be done with it. https://cinematicstudioseries.com/
> This should be anyones starting point. Honestly, anything else is a mistake. What you need is a solid foundation. After that anything else is an addition.


Sorry to say that… but this is bs^^




bleupalmtree said:


> So I got SCS on my cart. All day I've been watching Albion Neo videos. But for brass and percussion, what would mingle with SCS? I know there are a ton of libraries but is there any brass and percussion libraries that would blend well with SCS? Do you have any recommendations so I can check them out on youtube?
> 
> Again, I really appreciate all of your help. Thank you


For brass I really like East West Hollywood Brass Gold. And it’s still available here: https://www.musicstore.de/en_DE/EUR/East-West-HOLLYWOOD-BRASS-GOLD/art-PCM0015303-000

In there you get small ensembles, that complement a chamber section very well.
Same goes for Hollywood Percussion:









East West HOLLYWOOD PERCUSSION GOLD License Code


HOLLYWOOD PERCUSSION GOLD License Code at the best price. | PCM0015310-000




www.musicstore.de






I use both with the divisi sections in Spitfire Studio Strings Pro.

You can, of course, also consider East West Composer Cloud X for 20 bucks per month, to get the newest versions of these libraries and many more.


----------



## jbuhler (Aug 6, 2021)

MA-Simon said:


> Just get the Cinematic Studio Lienup and be done with it. https://cinematicstudioseries.com/
> This should be anyones starting point. Honestly, anything else is a mistake. What you need is a solid foundation. After that anything else is an addition.


Really, Cinematic Studio libraries are not a universal foundation.


----------



## MA-Simon (Aug 6, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Really, Cinematic Studio libraries are not a universal foundation


I strongly disagree. Imho the CSeries is a strong base, it has all the tools. I use other libaries only as "moods" to compliment.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso (Aug 6, 2021)

Cinematic Studio series is definitely a very solid collection of instruments, but I don't agree that it should be _everyone's_ starting point. There are so many ways to play strings, for instance, and CSS covers one of them. Whether it's suited to you really depends on what you're looking for.


----------



## from_theashes (Aug 6, 2021)

MA-Simon said:


> I strongly disagree. Imho the CSeries is a strong base, it has all the tools. I use other libaries only as "moods" to compliment.


yeah, that is YOU!

First of all: CSS is a symphonic sized string library.
But the thread starter wants a smaller/chamber section (tempted by SCS atm). So where is CSS the ultimate and definite starting point for everyone?
For a small and intimate sound? I don‘t think so!
SCS/SStS or Albion Neo/Solstice are far more suited for that.


----------



## MA-Simon (Aug 6, 2021)

I feel like I am in the twilight zone here. When did CSS become unpopular? I never said other libraries are not usefull. *I use other string libraries all the time!* Including SCS, Performance Samples etc. I probably have them all somewhere. 

I just think CSS is polished to an extent that is very suited to a starting library. The sound is very neutral. Most other libraries have a "thing" to them. A twist or a particular sound or idea. Most of these special "sound" libraries are sadly only sampled with 1-2 velocity layers or are ensemble based (violins and violas combined etc.). Which makes them very limited if your budget is low, and you need stuff for more then one gig. That sadly includes most spitfire libraries other then Chamber Strings.

CSS is not a symphonic sized string library. 10,7,7,6,5. But I agree, the sound is not a chamber sound.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Aug 6, 2021)

Regarding monitors, I'd even suggest saving up for the HS7s by Yamaha. If you have the space. I have them and love them so much. Also a good pair of headphones. These two investments will last you indefinitely and go much further than in their usefulness than you realize.

Also, I would just bite the bullet on Albion One. I don't have Albion One myself, but I think if you bought it, why not make the most of it? I've bought a lot of libraries in the past year 1/2 and had a few mistakes/regrets in hindsight. Mostly solo string libraries. But I feel that's just part of it?


----------



## jbuhler (Aug 6, 2021)

MA-Simon said:


> I strongly disagree. Imho the CSeries is a strong base, it has all the tools. I use other libaries only as "moods" to compliment.


You do you dude. I have no argument with whatever works for you. I have no argument that Cinematic Studios provides one of many good bases to start from. It's the claim that Cinematic Studios libraries are some sort of universal that I'm disagreeing with. 

What you said is that everyone should start with Cinematic Studio ("Honestly, anything else is a mistake") and then you are surprised when people tell you, no, Cinematic Studio libraries are not the right libraries for everyone and all music.


----------



## ism (Aug 6, 2021)

MA-Simon said:


> Just get the Cinematic Studio Lienup and be done with it. https://cinematicstudioseries.com/
> This should be anyones starting point. Honestly, anything else is a mistake. What you need is a solid foundation. After that anything else is an addition.


and in the darkness, bind them.


----------



## from_theashes (Aug 6, 2021)

MA-Simon said:


> I feel like I am in the twilight zone here. When did CSS become unpopular? I never said other libraries are not usefull. *I use other string libraries all the time!* Including SCS, Performance Samples etc. I probably have them all somewhere.
> 
> I just think CSS is polished to an extent that is very suited to a starting library. The sound is very neutral. Most other libraries have a "thing" to them. A twist or a particular sound or idea. Most of these special "sound" libraries are sadly only sampled with 1-2 velocity layers or are ensemble based (violins and violas combined etc.). Which makes them very limited if your budget is low, and you need stuff for more then one gig. That sadly includes most spitfire libraries other then Chamber Strings.
> 
> CSS is not a symphonic sized string library. 10,7,7,6,5. But I agree, the sound is not a chamber sound.


Again… it’s not unpopular or a bad library at all! But it’s not the universal starting point for EVERYBODY. Especially, if you are looking for an intimate sound and small section size.


----------



## John R Wilson (Aug 6, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> You do you dude. I have no argument with whatever works for you. I have no argument that Cinematic Studios provides one of many good bases to start from. It's the claim that Cinematic Studios libraries are some sort of universal that I'm disagreeing with.
> 
> What you said is that everyone should start with Cinematic Studio ("Honestly, anything else is a mistake") and then you are surprised when people tell you, no, Cinematic Studio libraries are not the right libraries for everyone and all music.


Yeah its not a universal start for everyone. It's obviously a great set of libraries and would make a great starting point but it is also more expensive for all sections than other options and arguable the delays could be an issue for beginners who want to play all their parts in.


----------



## ism (Aug 6, 2021)

MA-Simon said:


> I just think CSS is polished to an extent that is very suited to a starting library. The sound is very neutral. Most other libraries have a "thing" to them. A twist or a particular sound or idea. Most of these special "sound" libraries are sadly only sampled with 1-2 velocity layers or are ensemble based (violins and violas combined etc.). Which makes them very limited if your budget is low, and you need stuff for more then one gig. That sadly includes most spitfire libraries other then Chamber Strings.


I'm not sure what you mean here. BBCSO, SStS & LSCO, to name a few off the top of my head, all have 3 dynamics layers. SCS, SSS, Vista all have 4. Soaring Strings has 5 on the longs.

Tundra and Tallinn are the only libraries I can think of with only 2 dynamic layers in core articulations, but these are by design soft libraries.


----------



## Wedge (Aug 6, 2021)

MA-Simon said:


> I feel like I am in the twilight zone here. When did CSS become unpopular? I never said other libraries are not usefull. *I use other string libraries all the time!* Including SCS, Performance Samples etc. I probably have them all somewhere.
> 
> I just think CSS is polished to an extent that is very suited to a starting library. The sound is very neutral. Most other libraries have a "thing" to them. A twist or a particular sound or idea. Most of these special "sound" libraries are sadly only sampled with 1-2 velocity layers or are ensemble based (violins and violas combined etc.). Which makes them very limited if your budget is low, and you need stuff for more then one gig. That sadly includes most spitfire libraries other then Chamber Strings.
> 
> CSS is not a symphonic sized string library. 10,7,7,6,5. But I agree, the sound is not a chamber sound.


It's not unpopular it's just not the best library for everyone to start off with. If you want a more intimate sound or if you're new to midi (compensating for the different latencies in the legatos would have pissed me off when I just started.) Other than that I agree with you.


----------



## Kent (Aug 6, 2021)

…Lots of opinions, like I said.

Lots of horses following carts here, too!

@bleupalmtree you really ought to start a new thread for your new questions, or you’ll get even more crosstalk than is already happening.

(…and/or do a search for your terms of interest in the top-right of this page: everything discussed here is also discussed in many other threads, so hopefully you’ll get a clearer/higher-resolution mental image of the things you want to know!)


----------



## bleupalmtree (Aug 6, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Anything will do. A lot of folks like Samsung and Crucial. You'll likely be looking for a USB-C SSD. I usually buy whatever is reasonable at the time I'm looking. And I usually buy SATA3 and put them in my own enclosures. You probably want at least 1TB, maybe 2TB.
> 
> In any case, running sample libraries off your internal SSD is not really viable—the regular version of SCS takes roughly 90GB—and really you should be printing your audio to an external drive as well, ideally a different one from the one you are keeping your samples on. Obviously, you quickly run out of ports, which is why you will soon end up with hubs and such as well.The 16GB of memory should work ok—
> 
> In any case, that's all in the future, and you don't need to address everything at once. Immediately, you will need the SSD if you want to be able to use SCS.


So I'm not purchasing anything yet, but I checked out BBCSO and in the cart it says to add


BBC SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA SSD (MAC FORMATTED)​$249.00

then it also says you can add to cart a Spitfire Drive for 99.00.

I'm not really tech savvy when it comes to this but does that mean you need to buy both? Or just one along with the BBCSO?


This is just so I have a better understanding if I ever do decide to buy something in the future whether it be this or that.

Also I just bought the Yamaha HS5 monitor speakers. They are beautiful. In the future I'll grab a subwoofer

I haven't bought headphones yet but I do own a pair of Bowers And Wilkins PX7 for music listening.


----------



## jbuhler (Aug 6, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> So I'm not purchasing anything yet, but I checked out BBCSO and in the cart it says to add
> 
> 
> BBC SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA SSD (MAC FORMATTED)​$249.00
> ...


You can get BBCSO with or without SSD. $99 for the SSD is a decent price, if that quote is right, so it might be worth getting if you were to order while on sale. It will save you a lot of time downloading. But you’ll have to wait for the drive to arrive. Or you can just download it. You don’t need to buy their drive. 

One nice thing about BBCSO is that it comes in three flavors, and I think core is small enough that you could install it on your internal drive and use it from there when mobile. You can certainly do that with the Discover version. 

You’ll need headphones to hear the bass extensions that the HS5s won’t deliver. I tended to mix bass heavy until I got the subwoofer. You want a pair of headphones designed for mixing rather than listening.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 6, 2021)

The more I use CSS / CSB / CSW (via the great Project Colossal template) the more I realize how much of a P.I.T.A. they are to use sometimes compared to other libraries - all due to that delay approach. It's not unusable (lots of ways to make it easier to use), but it is still a P.I.T.A.


----------



## Casiquire (Aug 6, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> The more I use CSS / CSB / CSW (via the great Project Colossal template) the more I realize how much of a P.I.T.A. they are to use sometimes compared to other libraries - all due to that delay approach. It's not unusable (lots of ways to make it easier to use), but it is still a P.I.T.A.


I've had the same experience. Love the sound and the expression when the time calls for it though


----------



## yiph2 (Aug 6, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> You can get BBCSO with or without SSD. $99 for the SSD is a decent price, if that quote is right, so it might be worth getting if you were to order while on sale. It will save you a lot of time downloading. But you’ll have to wait for the drive to arrive. Or you can just download it. You don’t need to buy their drive.
> 
> One nice thing about BBCSO is that it comes in three flavors, and I think core is small enough that you could install it on your internal drive and use it from there when mobile. You can certainly do that with the Discover version.
> 
> You’ll need headphones to hear the bass extensions that the HS5s won’t deliver. I tended to mix bass heavy until I got the subwoofer. You want a pair of heaThe $99dphones designed for mixing rather than listening.


The $99 drive is just an HDD and it's just for shipping the samples, and apparently you can't use that to stream samples. The $249 one is an actual SSD and it is meant for that


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## jbuhler (Aug 6, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> The $99 drive is just an HDD and it's just for shipping the samples, and apparently you can't use that to stream samples. The $249 one is an actual SSD and it is meant for that


That Makes sense. I haven't paid attention to the drive prices, since I never use them. I also forgot SF was still shipping spinning drives.


----------



## CatOrchestra (Aug 6, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> ...
> 
> I'm not really tech savvy when it comes to this but does that mean you need to buy both? Or just one along with the BBCSO?
> ....


You dont have to get a drive, you can decide to get neither, and I guess you can buy cheaper SSD drives elsewhere if you would need them later on.


----------



## bleupalmtree (Aug 6, 2021)

f


yiph2 said:


> The $99 drive is just an HDD and it's just for shipping the samples, and apparently you can't use that to stream samples. The $249 one is an actual SSD and it is meant for that





yiph2 said:


> The $99 drive is just an HDD and it's just for shipping the samples, and apparently you can't use that to stream samples. The $249 one is an actual SSD and it is meant for that


If I buy BBCSO do I need the SDD for 249 for the library to work? I'm confused, sorry. What does the drive that cost $99 do? 'Just for shipping for samples.' What does that mean?


I'm using a 


Apple - MacBook Pro - 13" Display with Touch Bar - Intel Core i5 - 16GB Memory - 512GB SSD (Latest Model) - Space Gray 

that I purchased in September of 2020.





Thank you for your time.


----------



## yiph2 (Aug 6, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> f
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, the 249 is just an SSD that you could use for the samples, you can use any other drive. The 99 one is just there for the samples, you order it and then when it arrives you need to move the samples to somewhere else. That is just for saving downloading time I think


----------



## jbuhler (Aug 7, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> f
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The $99 drive is a spinning hard drive that SF uses to send samples to those who either can't or don't want to download them. But that drive is too slow to use as a sample serving drive, so you need to buy an SSD and put the library on that. The $249 is the SSD and you can use that one for serving samples, but you can buy an equivalent SSD much cheaper. So most folks opt to download libraries on to their own SSD. 

You don't have to buy either drive in order to get the library, but if you don't buy a drive you have to download. (Many of the SF libraries are very large.)


----------



## Casiquire (Aug 7, 2021)

My suggestion is to get hard drives that you know are compatible with your system which will be cheaper, get neither of those two drives from Spitfire, and just download the library.


----------



## bleupalmtree (Aug 7, 2021)

I put together my favorite movie scores with choir like voices into a video and I was wondering if there's any libraries on SpitFire that can get me close to a choir like sound like in the video?


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Aug 7, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> f
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah get a Samsung t7 ssd. It’s 2tb and will help u greatly. Don’t store your samples on your MacBooks drive, I have a 1tb ssd on my Mac and filled it up quickly. I much prefer to keep my samples on an external ssd and keep the computer free and from being overloaded


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Aug 7, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> I put together my favorite movie scores with choir like voices into a video and I was wondering if there's any libraries on SpitFire that can get me close to a choir like sound like in the video?



Which one? There are a lot of different types in that video. Spitfire only has one choir library (Eric Whitacre Choir), and it's great at what it does. But it won't be able to replicate every style in that video. No single choir library can.


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## Justin L. Franks (Aug 7, 2021)

Reading through the thread, it really sounds like you don't know where to start. Which is completely fine, the amount of choices available is absolutely overwhelming.

Just get BBCSO Core for now. Work with it for a while, and once you figure out where it can't do what you want, then get other libraries to fill those gaps.

There are sales every couple of months.


----------



## Trash Panda (Aug 7, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Just get Better Be Centered Softly Overboard Core for now.


----------



## bleupalmtree (Aug 7, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Which one? There are a lot of different types in that video. Spitfire only has one choir library (Eric Whitacre Choir), and it's great at what it does. But it won't be able to replicate every style in that video. No single choir library can.


Got it 

Just found that choir. Sounds beautiful. Expensive but wowza! I. remember I wrote a guitar piece that I always wanted to do with a choir and if I get that then I can finally do it. Whitacre Choir and
SPITFIRE CHAMBER STRINGS, that's the two I'm looking at right now. Those 2 are on my wishlist.​
B B C SO sounds nice and I was debating on that but I don't know if I want a full orchestra right now.

I'm looking at other stuff like Neo so still keeping my options open but i love the sounds of SCS and that choir

And yes, very overwhelming.


----------



## Trash Panda (Aug 7, 2021)

ka00 said:


> I just noticed that B.B.C.S.O. Core has been changed to "Better Be Centered Softly Overboard Core" in this thread? WTF is going on? Hacked forum?
> 
> Wait, is the forum software being tweaked to elucidate all acronyms after the fact? Like some sort of global auto correct? Is this end of all acronyms?


Admins just having a little fun.






Abbreviation poll


Important questions




vi-control.net


----------



## bleupalmtree (Aug 7, 2021)

But then again LOL B B C S O sounds good and it's on sale right now. Just heard some guy's music and wowza it sounded great.

I plan to buy something tomorrow so I might get that and something from Albion. I heard a little more of the Whitacre choir and not really for me. I'll find a choir from somewhere else. Any recommendations for choir let me know so I can check them out

SCS does sound amazing tho


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Aug 7, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Got it
> 
> Just found that choir. Sounds beautiful. Expensive but wowza! I. remember I wrote a guitar piece that I always wanted to do with a choir and if I get that then I can finally do it. Whitacre Choir and
> SPITFIRE CHAMBER STRINGS, that's the two I'm looking at right now. Those 2 are on my wishlist.​
> ...


If you want to be able to orchestrate for strings, but want ensembles for brass and winds, then an interesting option would be SCS + Abbey Road One.

SCS is simply gorgeous, and is many people's favorite Spitfire library, myself included. Its ensemble patch is quite usable to get you started, and you can gradually ease yourself into writing for each instrument as you learn.

Abbey Road One is $218 with the coupon code soundbetterxar1. It is divided into high & low ensembles for woodwinds, and for brass, you get separate trumpets and horns, with a low brass ensemble.

You won't have legatos for brass or winds. There are the Sparkling Woodwinds and Wondrous Flutes $49 expansions though, which will get you covered with some of the woodwind legatos. Not having brass legatos isn't really a big deal IMO. The percussion in Abbey Road One is also quite good, so you'll be covered there.


----------



## Soundbed (Aug 7, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> running sample libraries off your internal SSD is not really viable





jbuhler said:


> you still don't want all those writes to your sample drive due to the technology of SSDs





jbuhler said:


> $99 for the SSD is a decent price





Baronvonheadless said:


> Don’t store your samples on your MacBooks drive,


A 2020 MBP internal drive has a much, MUCH faster drive than any external SATA SSD drive can have, due to SATA speed limitations — Like, 4x or 5x faster. Understood that it’s only got 512GB. But if there’s space, it’s going to be a better experience to keep your samples on the internal drive, in that case.

I see no reason to have samples externally if they fit on a newer MacBook Pro internal drive. (Mine is 2018 and I wish I could fit all my samples on the internal drive because they stream off it smoother than silk.)

Also, I haven’t seen an economical option to buy any drives from Spitfire. If you need an external SSD for samples, I would buy them at ‘market prices’ and download the samples to them.

(fwiw, personally I’m also done with SATA for external drives. M2 drives are much smaller and lighter and even cooler, and similarly priced nowadays up to around 2TB. The external enclosures that run around 900MB/s (faster than SATA) are similarly priced to the SATA external enclosures.)


----------



## bleupalmtree (Aug 7, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> If you want to be able to orchestrate for strings, but want ensembles for brass and winds, then an interesting option would be SCS + Abbey Road One.


b.b.c.so core vs pro. I'm looking at B B C SO CORE right now. For the difference I don't see why pay more when I want to explore other sounds as well and don't really mind the difference. Albion Solstice is peaking my interest again. I want to experiment with a few stuff.

SCS sounds incredible but all the techniques. I don't know, seems to overwhelm me.

I also found a cool choir sound called 'Requiem Light Symphonic Choir.' Just what I was looking for.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Aug 7, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> A 2020 MBP internal drive has a much, MUCH faster drive than any external SATA SSD drive can have, due to SATA speed limitations — Like, 4x or 5x faster. Understood that it’s only got 512GB. But if there’s space, it’s going to be a better experience to keep your samples on the internal drive, in that case.
> 
> I see no reason to have samples externally if they fit on a newer MacBook Pro internal drive. (Mine is 2018 and I wish I could fit all my samples on the internal drive because they stream off it smoother than silk.)
> 
> ...


I don’t know I have a 2020 mbp with 32gb of ram and 1tb ssd so pretty suped up, but did not notice a difference in loading time or performance when I switched my samples to the Samsung T7. Except now I don’t have to worry about filling up/overloading my computer.
That’s just been my experience


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## jbuhler (Aug 7, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> A 2020 MBP internal drive has a much, MUCH faster drive than any external SATA SSD drive can have, due to SATA speed limitations — Like, 4x or 5x faster. Understood that it’s only got 512GB. But if there’s space, it’s going to be a better experience to keep your samples on the internal drive, in that case.


Well, no, because you'd have to run into other limitations with your external drive before that became an issue, and you'd greatly exceed the capability of your RAM and internal drive before it became an issue. I've been using external SATA drives for years, have like 15TB of them, and I've been running reasonably large projects on USB3, it's never been an issue. (I changed to Thunderbolt, but that was done to put them in bays not because of speed.) Loading things up takes a minute or two. So you probably save 15-30 seconds using the internal drive. You can maybe run at a lower dfd and so be able to load a few more samples into RAM. If you are constantly maxing out your RAM that might get you a few more instruments you can load. That's about all you'll get. The only real material advantage of running samples off the internal drive is that you don't need to carry around an external drive and you can use the ports for other things. Those are important considerations, but operationally there is not much difference between external and internal drives at the speed samples stream. The 512GB is a real issue, though. You can't fill it to the brim because the system needs some free space for other things, and sample libraries eat lots of space.

Sure, get the faster M2s and put them into an enclosure if they are the same price. Last I checked the M2s were still quite a lot more expensive, but I haven't bought a new SSD all that recently.


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## pranic (Aug 7, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> b.b.c.so core vs pro. I'm looking at B B C SO CORE right now. For the difference I don't see why pay more when I want to explore other sounds as well and don't really mind the difference. Albion Solstice is peaking my interest again. I want to experiment with a few stuff.
> 
> SCS sounds incredible but all the techniques. I don't know, seems to overwhelm me.
> 
> I also found a cool choir sound called 'Requiem Light Symphonic Choir.' Just what I was looking for.


I recently made the jump from BBCSO Core to Professional, mostly to get the string leaders and close mic positions. I hadn't realized how much potential there was to shape the sounds and space of the instruments until doing a bit more research. The additional instruments provided in the Professional upgrade were a nice little bonus. As with all of the libraries out there -- I think they all ultimately can provide inspiration wherever you are in your journey as a composer. However, as many have said, you might be better served by grabbing some of the cheaper options and getting a better sense of where you'd like to take your sound by evaluating over time.

Before BBCSO came out, I relied heavily on the Spitfire LABS (free, if you haven't downloaded yet), and picked up some of the Orig!nals (Intimate Strings, Epic Strings, Epic Brass & Woodwinds) to get a sense of what could be orchestrated, and that informed my desire/need for improving my collection with more legato patches (typically offered in larger and more expensive libraries). For me, I knew that I wanted to have the instruments from BBCSO, but didn't want to make large, loud and epic music with all of them, though. That's what drove my desire to have the close mics of BBCSO Professional. That's just *one* library that I'm talking about. 

I own Albion NEO and Albion Solstice, and suspect the next purchase in the Albion collection might be Tundra -- but I've also learned that my tastes and desires on the music I make shifts quite a bit through the year -- and today, I wrote a song that used a free Wok sample library for the soft percussion. I had no idea when today started that I would stumble over that and be like, "yeah, that sounds great for this!" https://itsallnoise.com/product/wok/ 

Oh, and on the topic of where to store your samples -- there's one hard fact: You're going to have to get a bigger drive, someday. Here's another +1 for the Samsung T5 or T7 series drives. They're good performers, and not as fast as an internal drive -- but if you're running on a laptop, they're durable, portable, and fast enough to get the job done well. You can always attempt to get faster external NVME SSDs that use Thunderbolt for connectivity, but it's not really necessary to have a successful setup. You can also just use your internal drive until you outgrow it, and then start moving your sample libraries to an external drive.

All the best of luck in making your decisions. Just know that if you continue composing, you'll be searching for more libraries to bring you inspiration and there's a never-ending list of great developers doing a lot of interesting and fun stuff!


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## Ricgus3 (Aug 7, 2021)

Agree with the above. You seem to be unsure where to start. Don’t feel pressured to buy now just because it is a sale. More sales will come soon.

I would advice to start with labs and bbsco discover ( you can even get bbsco for free by doing a survey). Also intimate strings from spitfire is 29$ and a great starting point to see if you like it. Learn that a bit before spending hundreds on SCS. 

When istarted out 1 and a half years ago I bought Nucleus as my first library after Labs . I was looking at Albion one also but Nucleus to me had more option I the long run. nucleus is made by another company called Audio Imperia.

Nucleus both has choir. Percussion. Sections on all th orchestra and som soloist. There is also a Nucleus lite version that is way cheaper and could also be a good starting point.

but check out Labs first and also “sine factory” from “orchestral tools” as it is also free stuff


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## Soundbed (Aug 8, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Loading things up takes a minute or two. So you probably save 15-30 seconds using the internal drive.





jbuhler said:


> The only real material advantage of running samples off the internal drive is that you don't need to carry around an external drive and you can use the ports for other things. Those are important considerations


These are part of the “better experience” I was mentioning.




jbuhler said:


> Sure, get the faster M2s and put them into an enclosure if they are the same price


Here’s what I am using (although I also do video editing):


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 8, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> You can get BBCSO


So I'm going to buy Solstice. I mean that was the one that made me question on why I bought Albion One in the first place which led me here lol and Thank God it did cause I wouldn't have been able to meet you fine folk.

Right now I'm looking at 2 options

OPTION 1
B.B.C.S.O PRO

OR

OPTION 2
BBCSO Core and Spitfire Chamber Strings.


I'm debating. Don't know what would be better for me. Can I get your help?



Any good piano on Spitfire (not hans Zimmer)?


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## jbuhler (Aug 8, 2021)

I like Solstice a lot. It’s a very large collection but it is niche so you have to figure that in. And Solstice benefits quite a lot from solo instruments sprinkled in with it. BBCSO will get you that along with the full orchestra. With your current setup I’d go with Core initially to see how it works on your system. There will be another sale in December and you can upgrade at that point if you are basically happy with the library. I’d also postpone buying SCS until you’ve had a chance to work with the other SF instruments. Again there will be another similar sale in December. But SCS is a great library, so if the desire is too strong and you have the funds, there’s no harm in getting it now.


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 8, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I like Solstice a lot. It’s a very large collection but it is niche so you have to figure that in. And Solstice benefits quite a lot from solo instruments sprinkled in with it. BBCSO will get you that along with the full orchestra. With your current setup I’d go with Core initially to see how it works on your system. There will be another sale in December and you can upgrade at that point if you are basically happy with the library. I’d also postpone buying SCS until you’ve had a chance to work with the other SF instruments. Again there will be another similar sale in December. But SCS is a great library, so if the desire is too strong and you have the funds, there’s no harm in getting it now.


Is there any benefit using SCS with BBCSO CORE? Sound wise?


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## mybadmemory (Aug 8, 2021)

I think buying that many libraries at once can be a mistake as a beginner. If you don’t want to start with the free and cheap stuff (labs + discover + originals), I’d still limit myself to just one library at first and use that for a while until adding anything more. Buying BBCSO, SCS, and Solstice in one go is a considerable investment but also something that can feel overwhelming and have you stuck in paradox of choice.

I’d say go for ONE of those three. Solstice, BBCSO Core, or SCS. And then get all the LABS and potentially some of the originals, and make songs with that until next sale. At that point you’ll not only know what you need, but you will also have learned the tools you have enough so that adding new ones won’t be as overwhelming.


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## Sarah Mancuso (Aug 8, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Is there any benefit using SCS with BBCSO CORE? Sound wise?


SCS sounds like SCS, BBCSO sounds like BBCSO


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 8, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I think buying that many libraries at once can be a mistake as a beginner. If you don’t want to start with the free and cheap stuff (labs + discover + originals), I’d still limit myself to just one library at first and use that for a while until adding anything more. Buying BBCSO, SCS, and Solstice in one go is a considerable investment but also something that can feel overwhelming and have you stuck in paradox of choice.
> 
> I’d say go for ONE of those three. Solstice, BBCSO Core, or SCS. And then get all the LABS and potentially some of the originals, and make songs with that until next sale. At that point you’ll not only know what you need, but you will also have learned the tools you have enough so that adding new ones won’t be as overwhelming.


If I buy BBCSO Core now then in winter I decide to buy SCS will they blend well together? Like when writing a piece? Any benefits using scs with bbcso?


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## mybadmemory (Aug 8, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> If I buy BBCSO Core now then in winter I decide to buy SCS will they blend well together? Like when writing a piece? Any benefits using scs with bbcso?


Not sure what you mean with benefits.

They are different libraries with different focuses recorded in different rooms. They can of course be used together like all libraries can, but it will require some more mixing efforts blending different rooms together depending on how picky you are.

The easiest route is always to stick to one room, but on the other hand, if you just add some reverb on top of it all, most people outside of this forum would never notice or care about different libraries being used together.


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## John R Wilson (Aug 8, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Is there any benefit using SCS with BBCSO CORE? Sound wise?


I think SCS works very well with BBCSO and is good for divisi parts.


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## John R Wilson (Aug 8, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> If I buy BBCSO Core now then in winter I decide to buy SCS will they blend well together? Like when writing a piece? Any benefits using scs with bbcso?


I did a mock-up recently of Bernard Herman Psycho were I used both SCS blended with BBCSO, I think they blended very well together.


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## mybadmemory (Aug 8, 2021)

John R Wilson said:


> I did a mock-up recently of Bernard Herman Psycho were I used both SCS blended with BBCSO, I think they blended very well together.


Please do share!


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## Justin L. Franks (Aug 8, 2021)

Between BBCSO Core + SCS versus BBCSO Pro, it's a tough choice, but I would go Core + SCS.

Reasons:

1. SCS is gorgeous.
2. You'll have both a large symphonic string section, and a smaller chamber string section.
3. SCS has an ensemble patch which will help you as your learn.
4. You can upgrade to BBCSO Pro for the difference in price between the two at a later date.

But most importantly, you seem to really like its sound. A library that inspires you is always best.


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## John R Wilson (Aug 8, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Please do share!


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Aug 8, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I’d say go for ONE of those three. Solstice, BBCSO Core, or SCS. And then get all the LABS and potentially some of the originals, and make songs with that until next sale. At that point you’ll not only know what you need, but you will also have learned the tools you have enough so that adding new ones won’t be as overwhelming.


I generally agree with limiting the number of libraries when making your first purchase, but Solstice on its own is quite niche. Alone, I don't think it would be a good option. And SCS is only strings, so again, it's not really even a choice for a single library. And the OP does seem to want to focus on the softer side of things, so the brass & winds in the Originals series won't be a good match.

I definitely support starting with BBCSO Core by itself, but overall, I don't think BBCSO Core + SCS + Solstice is crazy overboard. Each has its own thing, and each does that thing well. I think they will complement each other well for the OP's needs/wants.


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## mybadmemory (Aug 8, 2021)

John R Wilson said:


>


Absolutely lovely! What parts are SCS and what parts are BBCSO?


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## mybadmemory (Aug 8, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> I generally agree with limiting the number of libraries when making your first purchase, but Solstice on its own is quite niche. Alone, I don't think it would be a good option. And SCS is only strings, so again, it's not really even a choice for a single library. And the OP does seem to want to focus on the softer side of things, so the brass & winds in the Originals series won't be a good match.
> 
> I definitely support starting with BBCSO Core by itself, but overall, I don't think BBCSO Core + SCS + Solstice is crazy overboard. Each has its own thing, and each does that thing well. I think they will complement each other well for the OP's needs/wants.


I also think they’re probably a great combination, I just think it’s a lot to buy at once as a first purchase before having found out which developers products you gel with and not.

I have libraries from spitfire, orchestral tools, cinesamples, audio imperia, and cinematic studio series, and while some of them suit me well I really can’t seem to work with others.

Had I gone all in and bought many libraries from one developer without having found out which I liked and which I didn’t by trying all of them, it could have been a huge regret.


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## John R Wilson (Aug 8, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Absolutely lovely! What parts are SCS and what parts are BBCSO?


Thanks  It's mostly a mixture of both SCS and BBCSO, with SCS taking divisi parts and none divisi lines were BBCSO with SCS layered in. I also did blend in a little bit of CSS with SCS for the legato melodic line but everything else is BBCSO and SCS.


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## tc9000 (Aug 8, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> I put together my favorite movie scores with choir like voices into a video and I was wondering if there's any libraries on SpitFire that can get me close to a choir like sound like in the video?



Choir and voice are the hardest things to sample, so you will always be constrained by your abilities and the limitations of the libraries... but based on that material two libraries come to mind.









Genesis Children's Choir - Audiobro


Built on our new orchestral engine, the Genesis Choir is an elite 64 piece multi-ensemble (4 part divisi) children’s choir that is like having 4 choirs in 1: 16 Soprano Girls 16 Alto Girls 16 Soprano Boys 16 Alto Boys Here is a partial list of Genesis' features: Polyphonic with...



www.audiobro.com










Clare Solo


Free Solo Vocal Library for Kontakt




ivyaudio.com





I should say I am a complete amateur and not in any way qualified for this. Do lots of research before you buy anything!

I also want to agree with the person who recommended grabbing free libraries like Spitfire LABS, BBCSO Discover, etc. Play with the free stuff - it'll help you make wiser decisions later on...


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## jbuhler (Aug 8, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> Is there any benefit using SCS with BBCSO CORE? Sound wise?


What @Sarah Mancuso said. 

I don’t have BBCSO so I can’t speak to layering and blending (other folks address this) but SCS gives you a chamber sound as opposed to a larger symphony sound of BBCSO. I’ve liked what I’ve heard of BBCSO and I only don’t own it because it’s mostly redundant with a lot of what I already have. But if it was around when I was starting I almost certainly would have gone that route to start building my template rather than the one I did. 

Once you’ve spent some time with the libraries you’ll learn to appreciate other things than the size of the ensembles but these differences may or may not pertinent to the kind of music you want to make. Initially you’ll likely use of one string library or the other depending on the music. 

But back to your earlier query, I think you might find Solstice lacking a bit in detail without some solo instruments (I’m almost always supplementing Solstice with at least solo clarinet, violin, and trumpet and then orchestral percussion. BBCSO core offers all of that except the solo violin, which is available in Pro.) That’s why I’d recommend the combination of Solstice and BBCSO core at this point. 

One thing that speaks in SCS favor here is that it’s strings are a decent match to Solstice’s, being chamber sized and having non-vib patches. The Solstice strings have some issues and limitations and SCS can help address some of those.


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## tc9000 (Aug 8, 2021)

Can I also recommend these three (free!) Spitfire LABS libraries:

https://labs.spitfireaudio.com/choir








LABS LABS Soft Piano


<p>Recorded on a dry stage at Air Edel Studios, London, this intimate sound has become a favourite of musicians and composers across the globe. The soft tone is achieved by placing a thin strip of felt between the hammers and the strings.</p>



labs.spitfireaudio.com












LABS LABS Frozen Strings


<p>LABS Frozen Strings was the spark of inspiration that led to the making of one of Spitfire's most renowned libraries — Albion V Tundra. With just six strings players, recorded dry on a cold day in January 2015, Christian Henson set out to create a sound of stark beauty, something that would...



labs.spitfireaudio.com


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## Ricgus3 (Aug 8, 2021)

tc9000 said:


> Can I also recommend these three (free!) Spitfire LABS libraries:
> 
> https://labs.spitfireaudio.com/choir
> 
> ...


Yes! I started out with these and the Electric Cello patches! Man Labs is so amazing now with so much stuff for free!

When i started experiencing Sample libraries i wrote this piece with my 12 string guitar and only free stuff.



The Taikos were from a free taiko sample where i mapped every wave file in sampleopmatic2000 in Reaper. So i could play all the free taiko wav files. All other sound except Taikos and guitar were LABS


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 8, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> What @Sarah Mancuso said.
> 
> I don’t have BBCSO so I can’t speak to layering and blending (other folks address this) but SCS gives you a chamber sound as opposed to a larger symphony sound of BBCSO. I’ve liked what I’ve heard of BBCSO and I only don’t own it because it’s mostly redundant with a lot of what I already have. But if it was around when I was starting I almost certainly would have gone that route to start building my template rather than the one I did.
> 
> ...


I don't know how many hours a day I've spent this week watching videos going through spitfire website watching their videos and re-reading what everyone is saying on here. What I do know is I love what SCS has to offer, all the different sound, techniques you get with it which is why I just bought it. I'm proud of that purchase. Thanks to you I was at least able to make up my mind on something lol. And I got it on sale which makes me MORE HAPPIER.


I haven't made up my mind on bbcso core yet though. I like it but I don't know...


Solstice I like so now it just sits on my wish list. Maybe my finger will get the itch to purchase it on the last minute before the sale is over.


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## Ricgus3 (Aug 8, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> I don't know how many hours I've spent this week watching videos going through spitfire website watching their videos and re-reading what everyone was saying. What I do know is I love what SCS has to offer, all the different sound, techniques you get with it which is why I just bought it. I'm proud of that purchase. Thanks to you I was at least able to make up my mind on something lol. And I got it on sale which makes me MORE HAPPIER.
> 
> 
> I haven't made up my mind on bbcso core yet though. I like it but I don't know...
> ...


Good luck to you! Glad you are feeling happy with your purchase! Would love to hear what you come up with! Don't be afraid to ask questions about SCS here or composing/articulations etc.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 8, 2021)

I honestly don't think anyone should be buying Albion One in 2021. A combo of Abbey Road One plus BBCSO Core, for example, is only a bit more expensive but sounds hugely better and is way more flexible for different kinds of music.


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## ism (Aug 8, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I honestly don't think anyone should be buying Albion One in 2021. A combo of Abbey Road One plus BBCSO Core, for example, is only a bit more expensive but sounds hugely better and is way more flexible for different kinds of music.


There are still some use cases where I can see how A1 would make sense, but this is still a really good point.


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## Nimrod7 (Aug 8, 2021)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Cinematic Studio series is definitely a very solid collection of instruments, but I don't agree that it should be _everyone's_ starting point.


I remember when I was starting over with sample libraries, the folks at Cinematic Studio pointed out that their libraries might not be ideal if you're just starting out, their words, and I hope they don't mind posting it:

"However, if you're just starting out, I really wouldn't necessarily recommend our products."

I am not saying that to push away people from buying those products, the opposite, their honesty is what I really appreciated and eventually brought them. 

I personally like deep diving from the beginning, so at the end I believe it depends your preference, Some people are better off with Albions or ABO, others with more detailed Libraries.


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## Casiquire (Aug 8, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> I don't know how many hours a day I've spent this week watching videos going through spitfire website watching their videos and re-reading what everyone is saying on here. What I do know is I love what SCS has to offer, all the different sound, techniques you get with it which is why I just bought it. I'm proud of that purchase. Thanks to you I was at least able to make up my mind on something lol. And I got it on sale which makes me MORE HAPPIER.
> 
> 
> I haven't made up my mind on bbcso core yet though. I like it but I don't know...
> ...


You won't regret it, it's super comprehensive, but you will have some work ahead! There's a lot to learn but it's extremely rewarding to hear your vision. Great choice


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## dunamisstudio (Aug 8, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> I don't know how many hours a day I've spent this week watching videos going through spitfire website watching their videos and re-reading what everyone is saying on here. What I do know is I love what SCS has to offer, all the different sound, techniques you get with it which is why I just bought it. I'm proud of that purchase. Thanks to you I was at least able to make up my mind on something lol. And I got it on sale which makes me MORE HAPPIER.
> 
> 
> I haven't made up my mind on bbcso core yet though. I like it but I don't know...
> ...


While the video is three years old, Christian's recommendation for first library has been SCS. While his colleagues say Albion One. Course today some would say BBCSO most likely.

Awesome you got one on sale. I would learn it, make some music. Like some have mentioned, get some of their Labs, and Originals libraries to add some instruments. (Don't know what else you have.) Then next sale decide what you need next. Don't do like I did and buy dozens of libraries then decide to learn them all.


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## vision.noise (Aug 8, 2021)

el-bo said:


> That's a relief!
> 
> My own advice (Not a newb musician, but definitely newer to the idea of orchestral composition) would be more along the lines of those who encourage you to skip this sale. There are going to be more sales, and before the end of this year (Black Friday or Xmas. Normally both).
> 
> ...


Just wanted to chip in saying this is pure gold of an answer in general right here, both in info and in answering style. And good luck with your new endeavours from another orchestral/scoring lib beginner, OP!


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## bleupalmtree (Aug 8, 2021)

And on the last minute of sale I bought ALBION NEO lol (along with SCS I purchased earlier)

[edit] I'm done with my purchases... til next sale.



Thank you everyone on here! If it wasn't for all of you I would've been stuck with my first purchase very sad *unhappy face. Now I'm satisfied *happy face


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## jbuhler (Aug 8, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> And on the last minute of sale I bought ALBION NEO lol (along with SCS I purchased earlier)
> 
> [edit] I'm done with my purchases... til next sale.
> 
> ...


Have fun!


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## doctoremmet (Aug 8, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> And on the last minute of sale I bought ALBION NEO lol (along with SCS I purchased earlier)
> 
> [edit] I'm done with my purchases... til next sale.
> 
> Thank you everyone on here! If it wasn't for all of you I would've been stuck with my first purchase very sad *unhappy face. Now I'm satisfied *happy face


NEO! Now I’m a bit jealous… Have fun!


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## Kevperry777 (Aug 9, 2021)

Congrats. Neo strings are the most beautiful tone of strings SF has produced imho. For two handed playing/quick sketching, the Neo ensemble plays better than SCS…but with the massive amount of section arts in SCS you have considerable range. (Don’t forget you can transpose double/layer SCS sections for a larger sound…it’s amazing) 

Also, considering you get close ribbons and outriggers with Neo, you sort of get SCS Pro sound with it. Shift-click normal sustains and con sords to blend the two.


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## from_theashes (Aug 9, 2021)

bleupalmtree said:


> And on the last minute of sale I bought ALBION NEO lol (along with SCS I purchased earlier)
> 
> [edit] I'm done with my purchases... til next sale.
> 
> ...


Neo… I‘m a bit jealous too xD
Great choice! Have fun and let us hear what you do with your new toys.


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## Tim_Wells (Aug 9, 2021)

kmaster said:


> Honestly you might be best served hanging out on this forum longer before making any more purchases. You’ll find a big big world of virtual instruments, and an even bigger world of opinions…informed or otherwise 😛


Yeah, you would have found a lot of divergent opinions on Albion One here.

To the OP: I've certainly fallen for the hype... more than once. Over the years, I've found hype is something to be very wary of on all forums. I don't think it's usually intentional misrepresentation. Just different taste and different needs. 

But if you're very discerning and choose intelligently, you'll find those gems that work great for you.


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## puremusic (Aug 9, 2021)

You should have a great time with SCS. It's been on my wishlist for awhile. :D I've been wanting some finer smaller sections to blend with SSO. Thankfully I do have some other bits that work for that too. You're beginning a great adventure with a thorough and wonderful library.


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