# Closure - BBCSO Demo



## Mattia Chiappa

Hello!

I just finished working on this track. I wrote this precisely to test the new BBCSO library. I tried to make it sound the best I could given I only really had a couple of days to play with it. I had a ton of fun making this and I'm curious to know your thoughts!

Here's the track:



Thanks for listening!


EDIT:

Project files: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ce1i8okmxghw6dx/AADS2yjegnnaaPhDYRI-vtbfa?dl=0


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## BlackDorito

Nice. Very florid emotional track - I think it puts BBC in a good light for this sort of music.


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## jonathanparham

very pleasurable to listen to


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## Patrick.K

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I just finished working on this track. I wrote this precisely to test the new BBCSO library. I tried to make it sound the best I could given I only really had a couple of days to play with it. I had a ton of fun making this and I'm curious to know your thoughts!
> 
> Here's the track:
> 
> 
> Thanks for listening!


Very nice ! Beautiful work Mattia.
This may be able to silence the bad reviews, critics and so on.
This proves that when you are a true musician who masters the orchestration, you can do beautiful things, including ,I am sure with cheap libraries.


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## Patrick.K

Patrick9152 said:


> Very nice ! Beautiful work Mattia.
> This may be able to silence the bad reviews, critics and so on.
> This proves that when you are a true musician who masters the orchestration, you can do beautiful things, including ,I am sure with cheap libraries


And I will add that it changes of all thes epic music that we hear constantly on YT or elsewhere, that many copy, with tons of percussion that often hide a certain poverty, and that we get tired quickly.
But that's just my opinion


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## erikradbo

This is brilliant. This is the kind of not over-hyped but still dynamic piece in a sort of william-esq tradition that many set out to be able to create with their orchestral VIs. I think this sounds great, and above all - cohesive in some way, which speaks to the benefits of the library. Some minor things such as some release timings an some transitions that one could wish more from. 

Another thought is that this is the kind of piece that would be great as a comparison track. I wonder how well CSS/CSB/BWW could do, or HWO in recreating this with similar - or improved - musicality.


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## jaketanner

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Hello!
> 
> I just finished working on this track. I wrote this precisely to test the new BBCSO library. I tried to make it sound the best I could given I only really had a couple of days to play with it. I had a ton of fun making this and I'm curious to know your thoughts!
> 
> Here's the track:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for listening!



I almost never listen to a track from start to end...did this time. It's not perfectly mixed, but I much prefer this as a BBC demo than Blaney's to be honest. This had some real world approach and a theme to follow...wasn't scattered all over the place. Well done. 

If you haven't already, I'd use a lot more of the spill mics to get a wider sound though...definitely worth tidying up


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## Larry Hanshaw

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Hello!
> 
> I just finished working on this track. I wrote this precisely to test the new BBCSO library. I tried to make it sound the best I could given I only really had a couple of days to play with it. I had a ton of fun making this and I'm curious to know your thoughts!
> 
> Here's the track:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for listening!



I think you did a great job with this! Great sounding library and I like your writing!


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## Mattia Chiappa

Thank you so much guys for your nice words of support. It means a great deal to me that so many people are enjoying the music and taking their time to share their appreciation. This rarely happens and I'm humbled by the positive response I'm getting!


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## meradium

I really love your tune!


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## erikradbo

@Mattia Chiappa Would you consider sharing the files for others to make comparisons with other libraries? I think this would be the kind of piece that showcases strengths and weaknesses in a clear way.


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## mcalis

As someone who has been skeptical of BBCSO, I will readily admit that this shows the library in a more favourable light and I second what @jaketanner said. 

Being a fan of your piece ascendit, it was quite fun to hear some similar gestures here in this piece. Makes me feel like I'm "getting" your voice, if you know what I mean. 

I would also be very interested to see if you would be willing to make the MIDI available as I agree it would be a good benchmark piece.


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## I like music

mcalis said:


> As someone who has been skeptical of BBCSO, I will readily admit that this shows the library in a more favourable light and I second what @jaketanner said.
> 
> Being a fan of your piece ascendit, it was quite fun to hear some similar gestures here in this piece. Makes me feel like I'm "getting" your voice, if you know what I mean.
> 
> I would also be very interested to see if you would be willing to make the MIDI available as I agree it would be a good benchmark piece.



Yes to the MIDI!
Yes to the MIDI!
Yes to the MIDI!

...only if you're comfortable sharing, that is.

Can we just have an emoji please which is "MIDI or it didn't happen?"

Nice work @Mattia Chiappa


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## micrologus

Wonderful track, rich orchestration and colours. It shows the potential of this new library. Best regards, 

- Matteo


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## rudi

Great piece and writing - I love the tone and balance too.
Thanks for sharing!


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## Mattia Chiappa

Yes I'll link the project files on top later today, but please be nice, don't make an alternative mix and stick your name on top of it. It has happened before and it's not cool! That'll kill the whole sharing vibe very quickly.


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## jaketanner

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Yes I'll link the project files on top later today, but please be nice, don't make an alternative mix and stick your name on top of it. It has happened before and it's not cool! That'll kill the whole sharing vibe very quickly.


Man if anyone would stoop so low to steal your composition then they should not call themselves composers. Can’t believe it’s happened before. Sorry to hear that.


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## ricoderks

Amazing work! Could be a demo on the SF website indeed! Would love to dig in that programming as well. Sorry to hear someone else got away with your music... Sooner or later they'll screw up anyway!

Cheers and good luck composing!

Rico


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## paulthomson

Wow - lovely writing Mattia! Really enjoyed this.


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## Jeremy Spencer

Wonderful piece! You have proven that BBCSO is a gorgeous sounding library, and you orchestrated that very well. 

Mind if I ask what your system specs are?


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## jaketanner

@Mattia Chiappa ...I do like the sound of the library based off your demo. Were all the cymbal rolls from BBC...100% BBC? Also, the strings sounded a bit dark, like CSS dark...which I like that thick darkness...just wondering if you EQd at all? Thanks.


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## synkrotron

jaketanner said:


> Were all the cymbal rolls from BBC...100% BBC



Says so on the SoundCloud page...


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## Mattia Chiappa

Here you go, for those of you who asked, I've linked the project files on the top. There's also a PDF of the score I wrote before doing the mockup. There are only 2 percussion lines and I ended up changing a few things here and there but it's 95% there.


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## batonruse

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Here you go, for those of you who asked, I've linked the project files of the top. There's also a PDF of the score I wrote before doing the mockup. There are only 2 percussion lines and I ended up changing a few things here and there but it's 95% there.


Thanks so much for sharing these files Mattia


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## I like music

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Here you go, for those of you who asked, I've linked the project files of the top. There's also a PDF of the score I wrote before doing the mockup. There are only 2 percussion lines and I ended up changing a few things here and there but it's 95% there.



Legend!


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## José Herring

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Hello!
> 
> I just finished working on this track. I wrote this precisely to test the new BBCSO library. I tried to make it sound the best I could given I only really had a couple of days to play with it. I had a ton of fun making this and I'm curious to know your thoughts!
> 
> Here's the track:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for listening!
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Project files: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ce1i8okmxghw6dx/AADS2yjegnnaaPhDYRI-vtbfa?dl=0



There are those that get a library then sit and complain about what it doesn't do, and then there are those who get busy with it and get something done. I'm glad you're in the ladder category.

Good work. I know it needs more refinement but you already said that. So no need to mention anything in specific. I just like the tone and the ability of the library to carry a melody.


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## gussunkri

Lovely piece and a great sound!


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## erikradbo

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Here you go, for those of you who asked, I've linked the project files on the top. There's also a PDF of the score I wrote before doing the mockup. There are only 2 percussion lines and I ended up changing a few things here and there but it's 95% there.



thank you for this. I will try to make a comparison with css/csb/bww and probably hw perc. Being v limited on time atm it’ll prob be a couple of weeks.


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## xaviduch

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Hello!
> 
> I just finished working on this track. I wrote this precisely to test the new BBCSO library. I tried to make it sound the best I could given I only really had a couple of days to play with it. I had a ton of fun making this and I'm curious to know your thoughts!
> 
> Here's the track:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for listening!
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Project files: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ce1i8okmxghw6dx/AADS2yjegnnaaPhDYRI-vtbfa?dl=0



Man...Do you realize, after listening your beautiful song"demo" you are about to change radically my point of view about BBSSO??? I am working desperatelly, selling what I can since a month ago, just for buying this library, having the feeling I am spending the money for something maybe I don't need it, mainly because I use to work with SSO, even with its mistakes, because I love the sound, but...
After reading about it, and listening demos from everywhere since BBCSO is available, I notice there are people a bit (or too much) dissapointed, and it scares me. I think..Ok, this is not for me...(and thanks for avoiding me if I should or not bla bla bla)

This demo, is more than that...it's like to see the light to many of my questions that I can't make personally to everyone who has this product...different lines of work, different styles of music, etc...So, I decided to trust in this package and because I hope, I really hope, Spitfire Audio take care of us, (you,all of you who already buy it) updating whatever it doesn't works right now, don't leave us without those extra mics for SSO, etc or fixing a lot of weird things for a really expensive library like that, so...Again, my congrats for your music, your level of sensibility for making this and inspire most people.

Oh! I am sure you can do this great music with a berimbau and a couple of glasses filled with water, so..I mean, the quality of the music, the orchestration, this is "the one" for my experience, so..if we have this tool in our hands, probably we think "we can do that", but ...maybe not! Bravo!!


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## Mattia Chiappa

xaviduch said:


> Man...Do you realize, after listening your beautiful song"demo" you are about to change radically my point of view about BBSSO??? I am working desperatelly, selling what I can since a month ago, just for buying this library, having the feeling I am spending the money for something maybe I don't need it, mainly because I use to work with SSO, even with its mistakes, because I love the sound, but...
> After reading about it, and listening demos from everywhere since BBCSO is available, I notice there are people a bit (or too much) dissapointed, and it scares me. I think..Ok, this is not for me...(and thanks for avoiding me if I should or not bla bla bla)
> 
> This demo, is more than that...it's like to see the light to many of my questions that I can't make personally to everyone who has this product...different lines of work, different styles of music, etc...So, I decided to trust in this package and because I hope, I really hope, Spitfire Audio take care of us, (you,all of you who already buy it) updating whatever it doesn't works right now, don't leave us without those extra mics for SSO, etc or fixing a lot of weird things for a really expensive library like that, so...Again, my congrats for your music, your level of sensibility for making this and inspire most people.
> 
> Oh! I am sure you can do this great music with a berimbau and a couple of glasses filled with water, so..I mean, the quality of the music, the orchestration, this is "the one" for my experience, so..if we have this tool in our hands, probably we think "we can do that", but ...maybe not! Bravo!!


Hey man thanks! I think some people have ridiculously high expectations. I mean whatever tools you're using, it'll always be an approximation. This is why judging a library by trying a bunch of patches on their own doesn't say much about the library itself in my opinion. When you focus on the vision you have for the music rather than the tools you use to make it, you learn all sorts of things by encountering new problems and solving them. In the end none of this is real and it doesn't really matter what you use and how as long as it feels real end. Enjoy the good parts, embrace the inconsistencies and remember that your music has always to be the most important thing. Bitching about the tiniest little things like intonation and such is completely pointless because with time and patience you can make anything work, with any of these high end libraries.


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## Anevis

Very inspiring! Well balanced. This proves that those bad reviews aren't as worthy as they should be!


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## jaketanner

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Bitching about the tiniest little things like intonation and such is completely pointless


speaking of this...at least SF allows it's users to go in an tweak each note individually within Kontakt right from their GUI...so if there is a note or two that you want more in tune, you can do it manually. Save the patch and it's there for future use. Sure it's a pain, and why should a paying customer do their job...I guess sometimes things get missed.


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## Patrick.K

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Hey man thanks! I think some people have ridiculously high expectations. I mean whatever tools you're using, it'll always be an approximation. This is why judging a library by trying a bunch of patches on their own doesn't say much about the library itself in my opinion. When you focus on the vision you have for the music rather than the tools you use to make it, you learn all sorts of things by encountering new problems and solving them. In the end none of this is real and it doesn't really matter what you use and how as long as it feels real end. Enjoy the good parts, embrace the inconsistencies and remember that your music has always to be the most important thing. Bitching about the tiniest little things like intonation and such is completely pointless because with time and patience you can make anything work, with any of these high end libraries.


I totally agree with what you just wrote. But most of all, you have a lot of talent Mr. Chiappa, and an obvious knowledge of the orchestration. The strings in particular are often difficult to orchestrate, I do not know how long did you put on this composition, but bravo, I did not want that to stop.
Thank you for your generosity.


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## Patrick.K

Whaouh !....I have just done a tour on Soundcloud to listen to your compositions Mr.Chiappa, what beautiful music, you made me travel ... What a great talent !.


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## Mattia Chiappa

Patrick9152 said:


> Whaouh !....I have just done a tour on Soundcloud to listen to your compositions Mr.Chiappa, what beautiful music, you made me travel ... What a great talent !.


Thank you Patrick


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## Bluemount Score

Inspiring! Very well done!


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## Larry Hanshaw

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Here you go, for those of you who asked, I've linked the project files on the top. There's also a PDF of the score I wrote before doing the mockup. There are only 2 percussion lines and I ended up changing a few things here and there but it's 95% there.


@Mattia Chiappa I notice you froze the Woodwinds section. I unfroze them and when the Woodwinds legato runs play, all the audio gets choppy. Did you experience the same thing? I assume you did which is why you froze them in the first place. Watching the activity monitor, my system wasn't struggling with cpu or ram so I'm assuming it's a preload or streaming buffer. Trouble is, when I increase the buffer size it doesn't get any better. Seems this is a plugin issue since I don't have issues with Kontakt or Play issues when streaming from SSD on even larger templates or projects. What are your thoughts?


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## Mattia Chiappa

Larry Hanshaw said:


> @Mattia Chiappa I notice you froze the Woodwinds section. I unfroze them and when the Woodwinds legato runs play, all the audio gets choppy. Did you experience the same thing? I assume you did which is why you froze them in the first place. Watching the activity monitor, my system wasn't struggling with cpu or ram so I'm assuming it's a preload or streaming buffer. Trouble is, when I increase the buffer size it doesn't get any better. Seems this is a plugin issue since I don't have issues with Kontakt or Play issues when streaming from SSD on even larger templates or projects. What are your thoughts?


If you're referring to the icon labelled "project", that is precisely why I froze them. When I started to add to it, my system begun to struggle processing so many notes at once. It works reversely as well. If you freeze the rest, just leaving the woods it works just fine. I don't know what causes it though. My rig is not exactly the most powerful and I thought this would be limited to my case.

Inside other project labelled "Mix" every track should be frozen. I used so many mic selections it would be extremely ram intensive not to do so.


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## Larry Hanshaw

Mattia Chiappa said:


> If you're referring to the icon labelled "project", that is precisely why I froze them. When I started to add to it, my system begun to struggle processing so many notes at once. I works reversely as well. If you freeze the rest, just leaving the woods it works just fine. I don't know what causes it though. My rig is not exactly the most powerful and I thought this would be limited to my case.
> 
> Inside other project labelled "Mix" every track should be frozen. I used so many mic selections it would be extremely ram intensive not to do so.


Thanks Mattia. I'm hoping they can iron out the streaming and buffer issues in the plugin. It really can sound amazing as your mockup proves. Such great writing, mixing and arranging. You're very gracious for sharing with us and I appreciate it


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## Vladimir Bulaev

Well done! BBCSO copes well with lyrical things.


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## erikradbo

erikradbo said:


> thank you for this. I will try to make a comparison with css/csb/bww and probably hw perc. Being v limited on time atm it’ll prob be a couple of weeks.


I’ve started working, and initial feeling it that it takes some work to make it sound good, but that’s partly due to css needing much less modwheel action so all that cc probably has to be redone track by track to make the comparison fair. And regardless of how great thanos is for css legato it would have been so nice to not have to fiddle with the timings.

should be a much quicker comparison if someone has got SSO since I imagine cc works more similar between spitfire libraries.

Really curious about the result mysekf, this exercise is really a “should I get bbcso”-question in disguise...


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## synergy543

Really nice work Mattia! Thanks for sharing the score and .sib files too. That's a really nice score too. Did you write directly to Sibelius or into a piano sketch first?


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## Mattia Chiappa

synergy543 said:


> Really nice work Mattia! Thanks for sharing the score and .sib files too. That's a really nice score too. Did you write directly to Sibelius or into a piano sketch first?


Hey thanks! Yes I always sketch a piece on piano first and then orchestrate it. Depending on the level of complexity of the music and how much time I can invest, I try to orchestrate in Sibelius first and mockup the piece at the very end. I then go back and update the score with the new changes and fix the many mistakes I made (something I didn't do this time  ). I found that doing this has so many benefits and adds a whole new layer of realism that otherwise I struggle to get. The orchestration gets indisputably leaner and then I can simply focus on recording the mockup not being distracted by having to orchestrate the piece at the same time. It doesn't take too much longer for the very same reasons.


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## AEF

This is likely not all that useful bc as we all know, simply importing Midi into a totally different set of libraries doesn't work.

However, since I was curious and did it, figured I'd share.

No edits were made, I simply opened kontakt, selected the appropriate patch with default settings, and then bounced. For the CSS/CSB track I add a bit of Todd AO from Space Designer.

The OT only track is Berlin Strings, BI1+2, and some MA4.

The CSS CSB track replaces the strings and brass, keeping the woods of BI. I didnt include any perc b/c I don't have libraries that are OT or CS and wanted to keep it as much to the family as possible. Clearly these version are crap compared to the masterpiece that Mattia has generously given us to play with.

There are some weird bits due to the difference in libraries, articulations (i approximated), scripts, etc etc etc.

One thing is clear however: the whole balanced orchestra thing IS a legit selling point for BBCSO.


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## Mattia Chiappa

Performance aside, I think the biggest problem with both examples is that the balance is way off. Woods are way louder than they should be and French Horns are ridiculously loud!


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## AEF

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Performance aside, I think the biggest problem with both examples is that the balance is way off. Woods are way louder than they should be and French Horns are ridiculously loud!



Yup. I have always felt that especially CSB is so dynamic that its hard to even balance it with CSS alone. 

Of course balancing a template beforehand solves these issues but it is a great deal of work to put in when clearly BBCSO is just “right” immediately.


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## ryans

Great work,

Ryan


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## Vladimir Bulaev

Of course, this does not work so easily. And I'm sure SSO will not work without meticulous editing. Obviously. CSS/CSB has its own characteristics (delays, types of legato, layers, balance) You must clear and start from scratch each track. Just copy the tracks - forget about it. It is a lot of time and hard work, a lot of listening and finding bugs, especially if you are not so familiar with the library. Only knowing all its features well can the process be faster.


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## mcalis

Thanks for the score @Mattia Chiappa I've started to play in some of the bars and the more I play it, the more I'm loving the piece! One thing that has been on my mind a lot lately but I keep forgetting to tell you is that I had your "ascendit" melody stuck in my head for several days, and now this one too! I honestly can't personally think of a bigger compliment to give you because good melody writers are a very rare species these days and in my mind you absolutely have The Gift. Keep up the good work (and if I might add, I think you should post this on redbanned too  )


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## Mattia Chiappa

mcalis said:


> Thanks for the score @Mattia Chiappa I've started to play in some of the bars and the more I play it, the more I'm loving the piece! One thing that has been on my mind a lot lately but I keep forgetting to tell you is that I had your "ascendit" melody stuck in my head for several days, and now this one too! I honestly can't personally think of a bigger compliment to give you because good melody writers are a very rare species these days and in my mind you absolutely have The Gift. Keep up the good work (and if I might add, I think you should post this on redbanned too  )


Thank you very much Matthias, that is indeed a big compliment! My biggest struggle has always been coming up with a melody or that initial idea. I find it so difficult and frustrating, it makes me work extra hard to overcome that initial obstacle. For any piece I've ever written, I've spent an absurd amount of time on melodies alone, trying different permutations, rhythms, moving octaves, rolling dices, any trick you can think of. It's a very serious paranoia of mine . You just made my day a little brighter by saying that!


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## ridgero

Thanks for sharing this project @Mattia Chiappa, I really really really appreciate it.

What is your musical background? This work is absolutely brilliant. If you could give a beginner a single tip to bring his composition to such a level, which would it be?

Has anyone tried this on his Mac? I get some serious pops&clicks in the middle of the track (without freezing woodwinds). No System Overload message / CPU meter seems fine.

My setup: Mac mini 2018, 64 GB Ram, 1 TB SSD, BBCSO (SO SSD), Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (1st gen)


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## I like music

Between this, and your excellent demo for Dominus, you've probably made a lot of wallets just that bit lighter. Once again, seriously good stuff @Mattia Chiappa 

Looking forward to seeing your name on many more library demos going forward.


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## Mattia Chiappa

ridgero said:


> Thanks for sharing this project @Mattia Chiappa, I really really really appreciate it.
> 
> What is your musical background? This work is absolutely brilliant. If you could give a beginner a single tip to bring his composition to such a level, which would it be?


Thank you! Unfortunately my background is not very interesting.. A few years ago I took a degree in guitar performance. About half way through the curriculum, I realised I liked orchestral composition and I wanted to become a composer. The only way for me to switch to a different major was to give up my scholarship and pay for the degree myself, which I couldn't afford. So I bought a keyboard, a bunch of orchestral scores and I taught myself. 

I don't consider myself to be in the position to give anybody advice but since you're asking I would recommend to transcribe everyday and pretend you're writing for real players.


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## Mattia Chiappa

I like music said:


> Between this, and your excellent demo for Dominus, you've probably made a lot of wallets just that bit lighter.


Ahahahah I seriously hope this isn't the case!!!


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## AllanH

@Mattia Chiappa - this is my favorite track for BBCSO; it really showcases the beauty of BBCSO better than anything else I've found. Absolutely stunning music, orchestration, and performance! Thank you for sharing the project files and score.


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## Hayzynow

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Hello!
> 
> I just finished working on this track. I wrote this precisely to test the new BBCSO library. I tried to make it sound the best I could given I only really had a couple of days to play with it. I had a ton of fun making this and I'm curious to know your thoughts!
> 
> Here's the track:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for listening!
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Project files: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ce1i8okmxghw6dx/AADS2yjegnnaaPhDYRI-vtbfa?dl=0





This is stunning mate ! beautiful ..... and thanks for the share of the files it's such a great resource to be able to dig in and see how you put this together !


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## paul

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Thank you! Unfortunately my background is not very interesting.. A few years ago I took a degree in guitar performance. About half way through the curriculum, I realised I liked orchestral composition and I wanted to become a composer. The only way for me to switch to a different major was to give up my scholarship and pay for the degree myself, which I couldn't afford. So I bought a keyboard, a bunch of orchestral scores and I taught myself.
> 
> I don't consider myself to be in the position to give anybody advice but since you're asking I would recommend to transcribe everyday and pretend you're writing for real players.



Mattia - just listened to some of your other pieces on SoundCloud - well done! You've a great feel for orchestration _(instinctive I think)_
The BBCSO does add shine to your recent demo - but I would compliment your final mix in that we're all hearing a ratio of Mattia (80%) and BBCSO (20%). Lucky old Spitfire


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## brandowalk

Bravo!


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## Steve Martin

Hi there Mattia,

thanks heaps for sharing the score and other things. Is it possible to get an audio file download as well? It's beautifully done, love the music!

thank you if that's ok.

Steve


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## Mattia Chiappa

Steve Martin said:


> Hi there Mattia,
> 
> thanks heaps for sharing the score and other things. Is it possible to get an audio file download as well? It's beautifully done, love the music!
> 
> thank you if that's ok.
> 
> Steve


Hi Steve, thank you. There's already an mp3 in the Bounces folder.


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## Steve Martin

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Hi Steve, thank you. There's already an mp3 in the Bounces folder.


Oh, I missed seeing that. Thank you!


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## BlackDorito

To all of us: we better stop piling on the praise - it will go to Mattia's head and he will lose his natural humility 

Mattia, I suspect the 'Concert score' PDF is derived from the Sibelius score that drives NotePerformer and not the exact score of the MP3. I say this because right at the end I seem to hear a short celeste figure that isn't in the score. I suppose the PDF score represents the vast majority of the MP3 rendition, missing a few embellishments added during the Cubase phase, yes?

Once again, nice piece. [Sheesh .. there I go heaping on the praise]


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## Mattia Chiappa

BlackDorito said:


> To all of us: we better stop piling on the praise - it will go to Mattia's head and he will lose his natural humility
> 
> Mattia, I suspect the 'Concert score' PDF is derived from the Sibelius score that drives NotePerformer and not the exact score of the MP3. I say this because right at the end I seem to hear a short celeste figure that isn't in the score. I suppose the PDF score represents the vast majority of the MP3 rendition, missing a few embellishments added during the Cubase phase, yes?
> 
> Once again, nice piece. [Sheesh .. there I go heaping on the praise]


Hey! Yeah that is correct, I should have gone back to correct the few little changes I made


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## erikradbo

Here is an attempt with other libraries, using Mattis project files:


Edit: here's the link: https://on.soundcloud.com/QYtv[/B]

First: learned a lot of orchestration tricks by working with this, thanks for that Mattis!

Regarding the libraries used:
Strings: CSS, close mics, some EQ and Exciter, Spaces So.Cal Strings. +CSSS where BBCSO leader patches was used.
Brass: CSB, ordinary mics, Spaces So.Call Brass
Winds: BWW Legacy, close mics, So.Cal Winds
Percussions: HOP, So.cal percussions
Harp: Angelic Harp

Everything through Spaces Northwestern Hall and Ozone.

Comments:
- Thanos is used for CSS legatos, but it's still a little off at places. Could be that the legato midi parts has to be a bit off in BBCSO to sound precise.
- CSB legatos are lazily nudged a bit, but isn't very precise
- CSS strings generally doesn't need that much CC action, so I erased all the expression CCs and evened out some of the modwheel CC. To make it sound even better new modwheel data needs to be recorded, this is more or less the same CC as with BBCSO. Also had to change some CC channels to make it match.

General impression is that dynamics are lower recorded in BBCSO compared to these other libraries, the modwheel action was generally at quite high values, and had to back off volume quite a bit to make it somewhat similar.

Of these two version, I still prefer the BBCSO for the cohesiveness and pleasantness in the sound, but then much more time would have to be put in to get the best out of these other libraries.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

erikradbo said:


> Here is an attempt with other libraries, using Mattis project files:
> 
> 
> 
> First: learned a lot of orchestration tricks by working with this, thanks for that Mattis!
> 
> Regarding the libraries used:
> Strings: CSS, close mics, some EQ and Exciter, Spaces So.Cal Strings. +CSSS where BBCSO leader patches was used.
> Brass: CSB, ordinary mics, Spaces So.Call Brass
> Winds: BWW Legacy, close mics, So.Cal Winds
> Percussions: HOP, So.cal percussions
> Harp: Angelic Harp
> 
> Everything through Spaces Northwestern Hall and Ozone.
> 
> Comments:
> - Thanos is used for CSS legatos, but it's still a little off at places. Could be that the legato midi parts has to be a bit off in BBCSO to sound precise.
> - CSB legatos are lazily nudged a bit, but isn't very precise
> - CSS strings generally doesn't need that much CC action, so I erased all the expression CCs and evened out some of the modwheel CC. To make it sound even better new modwheel data needs to be recorded, this is more or less the same CC as with BBCSO. Also had to change some CC channels to make it match.
> 
> General impression is that dynamics are lower recorded in BBCSO compared to these other libraries, the modwheel action was generally at quite high values, and had to back off volume quite a bit to make it somewhat similar.
> 
> Of these two version, I still prefer the BBCSO for the cohesiveness and pleasantness in the sound, but then much more time would have to be put in to get the best out of these other libraries.




Perfectly!
This version sounds more natural to me mainly because of the legato CSS, CSSS, CSB, BWW.
May I ask you why you limited yourself to only one close mics for strings? In my opinion they really lack the body. I would leave at least the main mic. Sound clear but subtle. Harp is really a little knocked out. Otherwise, everything seems fine to me.

It will be interesting to listen to other versions from other users with other libraries.


----------



## erikradbo

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Perfectly!
> This version sounds more natural to me mainly because of the legato CSS, CSSS, CSB, BWW.
> May I ask you why you limited yourself to only one close mics for strings? In my opinion they really lack the body. I would leave at least the main mic. Sound clear but subtle. Harp is really a little knocked out. Otherwise, everything seems fine to me.
> 
> It will be interesting to listen to other versions from other users with other libraries.



To make it more cohesive and give all instruments the same room instead of the recorded one, instead of CSS room and BWW room together. I will try some other mix and mic variations though, I'll post if anything is good.


----------



## Jaredf920

Just wanted to let you know you're #1 on Spitfire's User's soundcloud playlist! 
Beautiful piece @Mattia Chiappa! I'm going to go snag BBCSO before the price hikes up tonight!

EDIT:
Forgot to post a link for ya!


----------



## erikradbo

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Perfectly!
> This version sounds more natural to me mainly because of the legato CSS, CSSS, CSB, BWW.
> May I ask you why you limited yourself to only one close mics for strings? In my opinion they really lack the body. I would leave at least the main mic. Sound clear but subtle. Harp is really a little knocked out. Otherwise, everything seems fine to me.
> 
> It will be interesting to listen to other versions from other users with other libraries.



Good morning! I tried it with the main mics for all libraries, adjusted the main reverb, placed the harp better and did a little adjusting of the percussions.


Edit: here's the link: https://on.soundcloud.com/2FDi[/B]

It's better with main mics, and compared to BBCSO I'd pick it for many occasions, but it really comes down to sound preferences in the end. What might be lacking in cohesiveness I think is down to mainly two things:
- Percussions: Percussions don't fill out the soundscape well here, the HOP sounds a like a late joiner to the party. The BBCSO percussions are said to be one o the great strengths of the library, and the difference is obvious.
- Timing of brass and percussions: Melody lines of brass are a bit skewed due to CSB legato delay, and part of the percussions such as cymbal swells hasn't been perfectly adjusted to the HOP patches.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Good. About the main mics, I meant to mix it with a close mics, thereby you will preserve detail, but at the same time add mass and warmth. You are able to do this in different proportions. One way or another, it is a matter of taste. You can also mix all the available microphones for each section according to your mood.  Reverb should work for bonding.

Can't say anything about percussion HOP. This is probably not the best choice as a percussion library for this piece.


----------



## erikradbo

This is a mix of the mics, so you get a fair deal of close micing as well.


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

@erikradbo I think the second example sounds very good. I particularly liked the expressiveness and vibrato and in the strings.


----------



## Maxtrixbass

This really is a lovely piece of music. Interesting how the two renditions come across so differently, but both IMHO work very effectively. The performance, orchestrations, and the composition really work for me.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

I have to admit, the version with close microphones I like more. There is something from the old school of Disney, Alan Menken...?


----------



## bricop

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Hello!
> 
> I just finished working on this track. I wrote this precisely to test the new BBCSO library. I tried to make it sound the best I could given I only really had a couple of days to play with it. I had a ton of fun making this and I'm curious to know your thoughts!
> 
> Here's the track:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for listening!
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Project files: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ce1i8okmxghw6dx/AADS2yjegnnaaPhDYRI-vtbfa?dl=0




Such a beautifully composed piece and thanks for sharing the files for analysis!! I'd be interested to know your process of going from score to DAW. Do you export as xml or midi? I normally delete all the noteperformer/sibelius midi data and then record the modulation data in live. Please do share your workflow from score to DAW. Thanks


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

bricop said:


> Such a beautifully composed piece and thanks for sharing the files for analysis!! I'd be interested to know your process of going from score to DAW. Do you export as xml or midi? I normally delete all the noteperformer/sibelius midi data and then record the modulation data in live. Please do share your workflow from score to DAW. Thanks


Hey man, thanks! My workflow is really really simple. I like to print the score and play everything in  I don't mind spending a bit longer to record the parts myself unless is something beyond my abilities, but even in that case I usually slow it way down until I can play it. This is a personal preference and by not doing so I suspect I would feel limited. This way I'm also learning the score by playing the parts and it forces me to practice reading music, which I suck at


----------



## bricop

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Hey man, thanks! My workflow is really really simple. I like to print the score and play everything in  I don't mind spending a bit longer to record the parts myself unless is something beyond my abilities, but even in that case I usually slow it way down until I can play it. This is a personal preference and by not doing so I suspect I would feel limited. This way I'm also learning the score by playing the parts and it forces me to practice reading music, which I suck at



That’s really good to know. I’m going to try it with an orchestral score as I tend to work from raw midi data. With regards to controller data, do you play in cc1 cc11 and cc21 or do you copy and paste the cc1 data and then scale it up or down for cc11 and cc21? Some of your lines look beautifully parallel as if scaled versions of cc1. Lastly, when recording controller data, do you use your ears to determine dynamics or do you equate written dynamics to cc parameters? Keep up the amazing work!!


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

bricop said:


> That’s really good to know. I’m going to try it with an orchestral score as I tend to work from raw midi data. With regards to controller data, do you play in cc1 cc11 and cc21 or do you copy and paste the cc1 data and then scale it up or down for cc11 and cc21? Some of your lines look beautifully parallel as if scaled versions of cc1. Lastly, when recording controller data, do you use your ears to determine dynamics or do you equate written dynamics to cc parameters? Keep up the amazing work!!


I play that in as well. I have those parameters assigned to 3 near faders that I can control at the same time using 3 fingers. Before getting a cc controller I used to have modulation, expression and vibrato all assigned to cc1 but I am liking now the flexibility to be able to have control them individually.

For dynamics I don't have any specific reference for what they correspond to midi values. I do it by ear, and hopefully it should be natural, if you have clear vision to what your music is supposed to sound like. When I'm balancing a new template though, I usually record passages from real scores using ff as my top dynamic layer and mf somewhere in the middle. It helps quite a bit setting your benchmark and knowing you can't go above that.


----------



## Levon

A stunning composition Mattia! The library sounds great in your hands. The one main thing I took away from listening to the various versions is that BBCSO sounds like a group of musicians playing as a unit. I don’t have the library yet but i plan to purchase it if it is included in their BF or Xmas sale. As a beginner in terms of orchestration and production I find the idea of being able to share and analyse fellow BBCSO owners scores of great benefit in terms of beginning to learn the craft.


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

Levon said:


> A stunning composition Mattia! The library sounds great in your hands. The one main thing I took away from listening to the various versions is that BBCSO sounds like a group of musicians playing as a unit. I don’t have the library yet but i plan to purchase it if it is included in their BF or Xmas sale. As a beginner in terms of orchestration and production I find the idea of being able to share and analyse fellow BBCSO owners scores of great benefit in terms of beginning to learn the craft.


Thank you! I’m working on something new quite a lot different from this, which I’ll also be happy to share along with score and files if anybody will still be interested.


----------



## erikradbo

I'd be really interested in hearing this with SSO, is anyone trying that out? I have SCS, so might exchange CSS for SCS and see how it sounds. Hint: this is a great piece for balancing templates.


----------



## funnybear

Such a wonderful composition Mattia. The theme is very beautiful. Should feature on a screen hopefully soon!


----------



## OleJoergensen

Thank you for sharing!
A wonderful and pleasant composition. And you did this in so short time....
The sound of the BBC orchestra is lovely. 
A couple of places in your composition, there are some chords among the string section- a timbre/ sound I have not heard with virtual strings before- wonderful!


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Hey @Mattia Chiappa Love this piece!

Would you be able to provide the midi for this for a Cubase user :D ?


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

Benjamin Duk said:


> Hey @Mattia Chiappa Love this piece!
> 
> Would you be able to provide the midi for this for a Cubase user :D ?


Hey man thanks. I don't have Cubase, but I could export it as xml. Would that work?


----------



## Mannix

Very nice.


----------



## markd

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Hey man thanks. I don't have Cubase, but I could export it as xml. Would that work?


I'm also a Cubase user. Are you able to export it as a midi file instead of an xml file? That would be awesome  Beautiful piece of music, BTW!


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Hey man thanks. I don't have Cubase, but I could export it as xml. Would that work?



@Mattia Chiappa Does an XML file contain dynamics information? If not then a midi would be best. I think you can just export as one big midi file that contains all instruments, but whatever is easiest for you.

Thanks for taking the time to do this!


----------



## erikradbo

Hello again,

Here is Closure with CSS switched to SCS (pro) from the previous version I posted, for comparison - this is SCS/CSB/BWW/HOP. I have never really befriended SCS and this is the first time I find it even remotely useful. All the CC programming is the same as in the BBCSO version. 

The tone works well, but I find the legato so much better in CSS than here. Possibly it needs more massaging to fit SCS better, since I'm not very familiar with the library. If anyone wants to give it a go, I'd be happy to send over these slightly adjusted project files.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

erikradbo said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Here is Closure with CSS switched to SCS (pro) from the previous version I posted, for comparison - this is SCS/CSB/BWW/HOP. I have never really befriended SCS and this is the first time I find it even remotely useful. All the CC programming is the same as in the BBCSO version.
> 
> The tone works well, but I find the legato so much better in CSS than here. Possibly it needs more massaging to fit SCS better, since I'm not very familiar with the library. If anyone wants to give it a go, I'd be happy to send over these slightly adjusted project files.




Do you have the project files for Cubase or just for Logic?


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

@Benjamin Duk I haven't forgotten you asked me for the MIDI. I'll be on it as soon as I can!


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

erikradbo said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Here is Closure with CSS switched to SCS (pro) from the previous version I posted, for comparison - this is SCS/CSB/BWW/HOP. I have never really befriended SCS and this is the first time I find it even remotely useful. All the CC programming is the same as in the BBCSO version.
> 
> The tone works well, but I find the legato so much better in CSS than here. Possibly it needs more massaging to fit SCS better, since I'm not very familiar with the library. If anyone wants to give it a go, I'd be happy to send over these slightly adjusted project files.



I really enjoyed this last one! Probably because being another Spitfire product, it respond similarly to cc curves and despite having a very different sound, it has very similar feel to the original version in my opinion.


----------



## ism

erikradbo said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Here is Closure with CSS switched to SCS (pro) from the previous version I posted, for comparison - this is SCS/CSB/BWW/HOP. I have never really befriended SCS and this is the first time I find it even remotely useful. All the CC programming is the same as in the BBCSO version.
> 
> The tone works well, but I find the legato so much better in CSS than here. Possibly it needs more massaging to fit SCS better, since I'm not very familiar with the library. If anyone wants to give it a go, I'd be happy to send over these slightly adjusted project files.




I know that CSS, in general, has better legato (though I'd probably have to do some very close A/B testing to notice the difference here). But the SCS sound is unbeatable to my ear. BBCSO a close second.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Mattia Chiappa said:


> @Benjamin Duk I haven't forgotten you asked me for the MIDI. I'll be on it as soon as I can!



@Mattia Chiappa Awesome! Thanks Mattia


----------



## erikradbo

Benjamin Duk said:


> Do you have the project files for Cubase or just for Logic?



Just Logic


----------



## OleJoergensen

erikradbo said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Here is Closure with CSS switched to SCS (pro) from the previous version I posted, for comparison - this is SCS/CSB/BWW/HOP. I have never really befriended SCS and this is the first time I find it even remotely useful. All the CC programming is the same as in the BBCSO version.
> 
> The tone works well, but I find the legato so much better in CSS than here. Possibly it needs more massaging to fit SCS better, since I'm not very familiar with the library. If anyone wants to give it a go, I'd be happy to send over these slightly adjusted project files.



This one is wonderful too!
Sometimes is difficult to remember al this shorts CSS, SCS etc 
SCS is it Spitfire chamber strings?
Thank you for sharing. It is great to hear the same composition with different libraries!
DDMC....... Don’t drink my coffee


----------



## erikradbo

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I really enjoyed this last one! Probably because being another Spitfire product, it respond similarly to cc curves and despite having a very different sound, it has very similar feel to the original version in my opinion.





ism said:


> I know that CSS, in general, has better legato (though I'd probably have to do some very close A/B testing to notice the difference here). But the SCS sound is unbeatable to my ear. BBCSO a close second.



Listening through the versions today (Original BBCSO, CSS/BWW close mics, CSS/BWW main mics and SCS JJ mix) here are my 5c:
-* BBCSO still wins the "could this be a real concert"-competition*. With eyes closed, this is the version that's most likely to fool me into being a concert recording.
- *CSS/BWW close mics* is a *close second in the real concert-competition*, except for the harp, but that's and easy fix. This is a good in between the expressiveness of these libraries and the mics/reverb used to make it sound fairly cohesive. Yes *strings are a bit thinner, but could be fattened* to taste with plugins.
- *CSS/BWW main mics* is really expressive, but *more of a soundtrack sound*. Probably *beats BBCSO* with a fine margin when it comes to *pure realism instrument by instrument*, but I could never imagine it being a live recording.
- *SCS version has a nice tone* and to me is very* similar in feel to the CSS with main mics*, but with *worse legato *transitions so a bit more machine-like in the melody lines which ruins it for me...but those string lines got much less work and love in the work than the CSS version.

So, with the question being *"do I need BBCSO", I'd say probably not.* Some more detailed work with the CSS close mic template will probably end up 95% satisfactory in terms of - the lately much used word - cohesiveness.

*Thanks again for a lovely piece Mattia*, I'm still not tired of hearing it, very generous of you to share the project files.






Edit: posted the four tracks for easy comparison.


----------



## Fry777

Mattia Chiappa said:


> @Benjamin Duk I haven't forgotten you asked me for the MIDI. I'll be on it as soon as I can!



I'd be interested too, thanks !


----------



## WillMah Gold

Midi: me too! ♥ I would like to test/compare it with EWHO (I know it is suizide...) and VSL and perhaps some other.


----------



## Victor Cajiao

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Here you go, for those of you who asked, I've linked the project files on the top. There's also a PDF of the score I wrote before doing the mockup. There are only 2 percussion lines and I ended up changing a few things here and there but it's 95% there.


Nice work on this piece. Did you take the link off to the midi and score? I don’t see it.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

erikradbo said:


> I'd be really interested in hearing this with SSO, is anyone trying that out?


I will do it with the SSO, just give me midi and a lot of time on the weekend.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

erikradbo said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Here is Closure with CSS switched to SCS (pro) from the previous version I posted, for comparison - this is SCS/CSB/BWW/HOP. I have never really befriended SCS and this is the first time I find it even remotely useful. All the CC programming is the same as in the BBCSO version.
> 
> The tone works well, but I find the legato so much better in CSS than here. Possibly it needs more massaging to fit SCS better, since I'm not very familiar with the library. If anyone wants to give it a go, I'd be happy to send over these slightly adjusted project files.




It seems to me that there is a lot of reverb for SCS, the library itself is quite wet. There is something strange in his tone. turbidity, deafness ... What microphones did you use?


erikradbo said:


> The tone works well, but I find the legato so much better in CSS than here. Possibly it needs more massaging to fit SCS better, since I'm not very familiar with the library. If anyone wants to give it a go, I'd be happy to send over these slightly adjusted project files.





erikradbo said:


> - *SCS version has a nice tone* and to me is very* similar in feel to the CSS with main mics*, but with *worse legato *transitions so a bit more machine-like in the melody lines which ruins it for me...but those string lines got much less work and love in the work than the CSS version.


What patches for SCS did you use?


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

@Benjamin Duk I've uploaded the MIDI, let me know if that works for you.

@Victor Cajiao I haven't taken it down, just open the link. You'll see some folders, the score is in there too.


----------



## erikradbo

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> It seems to me that there is a lot of reverb for SCS, the library itself is quite wet. There is something strange in his tone. turbidity, deafness ... What microphones did you use?
> 
> 
> What patches for SCS did you use?





Vladimir Bulaev said:


> It seems to me that there is a lot of reverb for SCS, the library itself is quite wet. There is something strange in his tone. turbidity, deafness ... What microphones did you use?
> 
> 
> What patches for SCS did you use?



It's the JJ M stereo mix, and the patches are the obvious ones for respective articulation. Found that legato performance worked slightly better than performance legato for some lines.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Mattia Chiappa said:


> @Benjamin Duk I've uploaded the MIDI, let me know if that works for you.
> 
> @Victor Cajiao I haven't taken it down, just open the link. You'll see some folders, the score is in there too.



@Mattia Chiappa I could only find your Closure Sketch.mid file, which I think is your piano sketch unless I'm not looking in the right place?


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

Benjamin Duk said:


> @Mattia Chiappa I could only find your Closure Sketch.mid file, which I think is your piano sketch unless I'm not looking in the right place?


Sorry for the confusion. It's not in the original dropbox link but I've attached it as a file. I'll leave it here as well


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Sorry for the confusion. It's not in the original dropbox link but I've attached it as a file. I'll leave it here as well



Awesome! Thank you so much Mattia. I really appreciate it. Looking forward to getting this into Cubase :D


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> I will do it with the SSO, just give me midi and a lot of time on the weekend.



Did you get a chance to do this with SSO? I have been debating whether or not to buy BBCSO during the BF sale. Hearing the same thing in SSO would be a big help.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Paul T McGraw said:


> Did you get a chance to do this with SSO? I have been debating whether or not to buy BBCSO during the BF sale. Hearing the same thing in SSO would be a big help.


At the moment, I have programmed only strings and a little woodwinds. I need more time to finish the full orchestra. I don’t know exactly when, but I will do it. Sooner or later.


----------



## axb312

erikradbo said:


> Listening through the versions today (Original BBCSO, CSS/BWW close mics, CSS/BWW main mics and SCS JJ mix) here are my 5c:
> -* BBCSO still wins the "could this be a real concert"-competition*. With eyes closed, this is the version that's most likely to fool me into being a concert recording.
> - *CSS/BWW close mics* is a *close second in the real concert-competition*, except for the harp, but that's and easy fix. This is a good in between the expressiveness of these libraries and the mics/reverb used to make it sound fairly cohesive. Yes *strings are a bit thinner, but could be fattened* to taste with plugins.
> - *CSS/BWW main mics* is really expressive, but *more of a soundtrack sound*. Probably *beats BBCSO* with a fine margin when it comes to *pure realism instrument by instrument*, but I could never imagine it being a live recording.
> - *SCS version has a nice tone* and to me is very* similar in feel to the CSS with main mics*, but with *worse legato *transitions so a bit more machine-like in the melody lines which ruins it for me...but those string lines got much less work and love in the work than the CSS version.
> 
> So, with the question being *"do I need BBCSO", I'd say probably not.* Some more detailed work with the CSS close mic template will probably end up 95% satisfactory in terms of - the lately much used word - cohesiveness.
> 
> *Thanks again for a lovely piece Mattia*, I'm still not tired of hearing it, very generous of you to share the project files.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: posted the four tracks for easy comparison.




Loved the CSS close mic sound here...


----------



## Patrick.K

Mattia Chiappa said:


> Thank you so much guys for your nice words of support. It means a great deal to me that so many people are enjoying the music and taking their time to share their appreciation. This rarely happens and I'm humbled by the positive response I'm getting!



Spitfire Audio should pay you, or offer you free libraries (and the best of course), for your work that really showcases BBCSO, because I'm sure your work has triggered many buying decisions

I hope that Paul and Christian will not be ungrateful ! ... Chrismas is in a few weeks so ...




Congratulations again for what you do and for your talent.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Spitfire Symphonic Strings
Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds
Spitfire Symphonic Brass
Spitfire Percussion
Spitfire Harp 

Sound out of the box, no reverb, all microphones CTA are turned on.
Close ~ 80% Tree 100% Ambient ~ 80%


----------



## Mattia Chiappa

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Spitfire Symphonic Strings
> Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds
> Spitfire Symphonic Brass
> Spitfire Percussion
> Spitfire Harp
> 
> Sound out of the box, no reverb, all microphones CTA are turned on.
> Close ~ 80% Tree 100% Ambient ~ 80%



I like the sound of this one. I expected this version to turn out similar to the original but in my opinion it's the most different sounding yet. This might be due to the different legato transitions but on my first listen, it almost felt like a different performance or as if the piece was conducted differently. Did you change the tempi? To my ears this had a lazy kind of feel, which I enjoyed.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I like the sound of this one. I expected this version to turn out similar to the original but in my opinion it's the most different sounding yet. This might be due to the different legato transitions but on my first listen, it almost felt like a different performance or as if the piece was conducted differently. Did you change the tempi? To my ears this had a lazy kind of feel, which I enjoyed.


From the first notes with SSO libraries, I started from scratch and drew performances only occasionally referring to the original. You rightly drew attention to the legato transitions. I chose a legato performance patch on all strings with minimal transition speed settings for legato. Maybe that's why musicians feel so lazy.  But I left the original tempo from midi as it is.


----------



## Levon

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> From the first notes with SSO libraries, I started from scratch and drew performances only occasionally referring to the original. You rightly drew attention to the legato transitions. I chose a legato performance patch on all strings with minimal transition speed settings for legato. Maybe that's why musicians feel so lazy.  But I left the original tempo from midi as it is.


Sounds very different indeed. I actually prefer the original BBCSO version. The BBCSO one sounds more agile.


----------



## davidson

@Mattia Chiappa Fantastic piece of music! I have/had no intention at all of buying this library, but your example has my mouse hovering over the buy button. I've never heard a more pleasant, cohesive, and emotional sound from a sample library.


----------



## erikradbo

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Spitfire Symphonic Strings
> Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds
> Spitfire Symphonic Brass
> Spitfire Percussion
> Spitfire Harp
> 
> Sound out of the box, no reverb, all microphones CTA are turned on.
> Close ~ 80% Tree 100% Ambient ~ 80%






Mattia Chiappa said:


> I like the sound of this one. I expected this version to turn out similar to the original but in my opinion it's the most different sounding yet. This might be due to the different legato transitions but on my first listen, it almost felt like a different performance or as if the piece was conducted differently. Did you change the tempi? To my ears this had a lazy kind of feel, which I enjoyed.



Thanks for the effort! To me it confirms what is discussed in this thread with Spitfire generally being a bit more sluggish: https://vi-control.net/community/th...atic-studio-berlin-my-customer-journey.87127/ but this doesn't seem to be the case with BBCSO. The SSO version is by far feeling more on it's heels, but that doesn't necessarily mean in a bad way, it's about taste. It would be so nice to hear an OT version, I have a feeling it would sound great and very snappy...


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## Soundhound

Lovey piece Mattia! I downloaded to have a look and found that I can play (on my 2012 iMac) the working file just fine, but the mix master is too much for my system and I'm interested in seeing where the bottlenecks for my system are. Is the difference between the two essentially the various reverb sends etc?


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## Mattia Chiappa

Soundhound said:


> Lovey piece Mattia! I downloaded to have a look and found that I can play (on my 2012 iMac) the working file just fine, but the mix master is too much for my system and I'm interested in seeing where the bottlenecks for my system are. Is the difference between the two essentially the various reverb sends etc?


It suspect it's a ram issue. While the project has only one mic per instrument, the mixed version has many mic selections and unless you're working on a powerful machine I doubt you'll be able to play it. I can't run it either without freezing tracks. I had to delete all the freeze files from the folder because they were taking up a lot of space on my dropbox but originally when I first shared the link everything was frozen.


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## Soundhound

Ah, I see, I didn’t think it could just be the reverbs. My imac has just 32 gigs, so that’s probably it?


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## Vladimir Bulaev

erikradbo said:


> Thanks for the effort! To me it confirms what is discussed in this thread with Spitfire generally being a bit more sluggish: https://vi-control.net/community/th...atic-studio-berlin-my-customer-journey.87127/ but this doesn't seem to be the case with BBCSO. The SSO version is by far feeling more on it's heels, but that doesn't necessarily mean in a bad way, it's about taste.





Levon said:


> Sounds very different indeed. I actually prefer the original BBCSO version. The BBCSO one sounds more agile.


I also prefer the original version of BBCSO. In particular, vibrato on strings is more pronounced there. Of course, adding solo strings to the SSS would do its job well, it would be better..
But overall, I think, SSO may sound more agile with performance legato. I deliberately chose legato performance and slow speed because I found the piece quite lyrical. However, the legato strings do not work so well, swell in places and fail and generally not so well breathe.
For *Flying Sleigh*, I’ll just use performance legato. But one way or another, for lyrical writing with its smooth and excellent legato, Cinematic Studio Series definitely wins against me..


erikradbo said:


> It would be so nice to hear an OT version, I have a feeling it would sound great and very snappy...


It would be very interesting, on this forum I rarely hear OT Berlin Series users here.


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## Graham Wayne

Hi Mattia - I'm a retired musician studying orchestration and recently purchased the BBCSO. After listening to your demo, which I thought both melodically very strong and excellently orchestrated, I was tempted to email you to ask - cheekily I thought - if you would be willing to let me have a PDF of the score so I could see how you created such deep textures, something I don't yet know how to do with any real confidence. In the end I decided that I would be asking a magician to tell me how he did his tricks, and didn't get in touch.

I was therefore pleasantly surprised by your generosity when I joined this forum and found the various files and scores you have shared. Thank you so much - it's really nice of you. I'll be taking them to piece to extract what my 67-year old head can absorb.

Meanwhile, and by way of a very small return gesture, can I mention a little TouchOSC control surface template I've created for the BBCSO and uploaded here, which affords easy articulation changes on the fly, performance data input (expression, dynamics, reverb etc) and all of the microphones and other CC-controlled functions on faders or rotary controls.

UPDATE: just added a Logic version with compatible keyswitches as well as the original version for Cubase

It's here for anyone interested: https://vi-control.net/community/th...n-ios-and-android-devices.89309/#post-4500118


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## MTAcosta

The Dropbox link is broken :( is this project file still available? I’m really interested to see how you used EQ and reverb with BBCSO. This is by far one of the best examples I’ve heard.


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## leslieq

Awesome piece.. definitely one of the better [best] pieces showing off the library.


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## Mattia Chiappa

I'm so late to the party but I made an alternative version myself, using the cinematic studio series and BBCSO percussion. No lousy pasting midi regions or replacing instances of the plugin with Kontakt. I started from scratch so this is a whole new performance. I think the end result is quite interesting!




If you want hear my comments on this, I've talked about for a bit in this video


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## Vladimir Bulaev

*Mattia Chiappa*, excellent performance and using new CSS instruments. I congratulate you on this and hope to hear even more great music. 

As for the CSS version, I think mixing is a weak point, but I'm sure it can be done much better. (BBCSO is superior to CSS in this regard). Anyway, these subtleties relate only to sound engineering. CSS here does everything at the highest level, especially singing with legato.

Continuing the party, here's another version showing off the OT Berlin Series. I started from scratch, so this is another new performance. The sound is out of the box, no spatial reverberation and EQ processing.


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## Pixelpoet1985

Any chance to have the score pdf? Would be nice. It's not available anymore.


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## erikradbo

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I'm so late to the party but I made an alternative version myself, using the cinematic studio series and BBCSO percussion. No lousy pasting midi regions or replacing instances of the plugin with Kontakt. I started from scratch so this is a whole new performance. I think the end result is quite interesting!
> 
> *broken link removed*
> 
> 
> If you want hear my comments on this, I've talked about for a bit in this video



Great work and great video! I'll post my CSS versions (CSS/CSB/BWW legacy/Hollywood orch perc) here again since the links in previous posts has been down for some reasons. I made them from Mattias project files, which he graciously shared, re-recorded most of the midi data, but kept most of the original notes. Listening back I find the BBCSO is more like a live recording of an orchestra and the CSS more a studio recording, but I'm very much in love with CSS as a tool (and now comes the 1.7 free update). Hollywood percussions doesn't really fill the soundscape though.

Close mics: 
Main mics, changed the harp etc:


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