# Sample Modeling Cello is out!



## lucor (Jun 27, 2016)

Just got the mail. 
http://www.samplemodeling.com/en/swam_cello.php


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## adg21 (Jun 27, 2016)

My first thoughts on the demos...phasing issues


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## Christof (Jun 27, 2016)

This sounds very, very good.


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## lucor (Jun 27, 2016)

Christof said:


> This sounds very, very good.


High praise coming from you. 
I'm by no means a Cello aficionado but I also really like the tone so far. Definitely better than the Viola (which I also really like btw, even though I can understand the criticism). And what it lacks in tone it will make up in performance possibilities, as usual with SM products.


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## FriFlo (Jun 27, 2016)

Christof said:


> This sounds very, very good.


Great to hear that from a Cellist! I have not had the time to listen on proper speakers ... Makes me want to do that quickly! Since the Viola was less good regarding timbre, I am very hopeful that sample modeling improves their string and woodwind instruments in that regard.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 27, 2016)

Hm, cool thing. Very expressivo sound but somehow I don´t like the tone, it is so dull and dark and has something in the mids I have not any liking with..I am missing also that but the viola wasn´t also not of my taste..so..I don´t know but it seems for me that modeling bowed instruments is a kind of very hard thing to get right to my liking..but don´t get me wrong: I respect a lot what effort sm put into their products and I heard a few demos with their brass which was pretty pretty good.


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## Christof (Jun 27, 2016)

The tone is a matter of taste, I don't love the tone but it is okay.
But the phrasing (in the demos) sounds realistic, well, at least more realistic than any other solo cello VI I heard so far.
I would go for it.
If you don't like it hire me


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## Pixelee (Jun 27, 2016)

Christof said:


> The tone is a matter of taste, I don't love the tone but it is okay.
> But the phrasing (in the demos) sounds realistic, well, at least more realistic than any other solo cello VI I heard so far.
> I would go for it.
> If you don't like it hire me



What do you think of virharmonic's cello?


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## Virtuoso (Jun 27, 2016)

adg21 said:


> My first thoughts on the demos...phasing issues


I'm thinking the same - it's quite pronounced and off-putting.


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## LHall (Jun 27, 2016)

As an almost daily user of all things SM and a big fan of the Gofriller Cello, I'm really looking forward to playing with this!


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## Jackles (Jun 27, 2016)

I couldn't really tell what bothers me about it, but it feels wrong. It's like the uncanny valley of sound, it's so close to the real thing and at the same time so far away. 
They nailed it with their brass, but I feel the same weirdness with their other instruments (winds and strings).


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## LHall (Jun 27, 2016)

_"I couldn't really tell what bothers me about it, but it feels wrong. It's like the uncanny valley of sound, it's so close to the real thing and at the same time so far away."_

Is that based on hearing the demos, or have you purchased and tried it out?


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## Christof (Jun 27, 2016)

Pixelee said:


> What do you think of virharmonic's cello?


I didn't know that they released a solo cello library.
I will check it out.


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Jun 27, 2016)

eww


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## danmackey (Jun 27, 2016)

Regarding the cello, Have all of the variations of sounds been tried? The cello, like the Swam winds and viola have several instrument variations. I control my Swam instruments with an AKAI EWI 4000s as my controller. They have control settings for the BC like the yamaha BC's that plugged into their keyboards,and WX series controllers, Wind controller for the EWI series and now, settings for the Rise from Rolli and the Linnstrument. I find it to be very expressive


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## Pixelee (Jun 27, 2016)

Christof said:


> I didn't know that they released a solo cello library.
> I will check it out.


Let me know if you like it or not. I value your opinion!


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## ZeeCount (Jun 27, 2016)

Also they released a SWAM update for the woodwinds which fixes the annoying bug where the first note in a phrase won't always trigger in breath controller mode.


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## AlexRuger (Jun 27, 2016)

Jackles said:


> I couldn't really tell what bothers me about it, but it feels wrong. It's like the uncanny valley of sound, it's so close to the real thing and at the same time so far away.


Couldn't agree more. Their brass is 100% perfect, but the viola (and now cello) each just sound off.


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## Jackles (Jun 27, 2016)

LHall said:


> _"I couldn't really tell what bothers me about it, but it feels wrong. It's like the uncanny valley of sound, it's so close to the real thing and at the same time so far away."_
> 
> Is that based on hearing the demos, or have you purchased and tried it out?



Based on hearing the demos, but I had the opportunity to try the saxophone, the flute and the clarinet and that confirmed my impression. The demos of the trumpet are faithful to my user experience (some went actually way beyond !).
But, yeah, I never tried the strings, so it's not an accurate opinion.


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## danmackey (Jun 28, 2016)

ZeeCount said:


> Also they released a SWAM update for the woodwinds which fixes the annoying bug where the first note in a phrase won't always trigger in breath controller mode.


I am running my vi's on a muse receptor2+. On this device this latest update is not playing nice as it won't save settings without re booting the receptor which is inconvenient. I re-installed the previous update and things are back to normal while the folks at swam are investigating the cause. The sound and feel of these updates are definitely an improvement.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jun 28, 2016)

Christof said:


> This sounds very, very good.


I am surprised that you say so Christof, as a cello player yourself.
The features and playability are very interesting but it is the sound especially that makes me not join the cello crowd from SM.

Maybe we all hear things differently?


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## Christof (Jun 28, 2016)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> I am surprised that you say so Christof, as a cello player yourself.


Actually I am talking about phrasing and articulation.
These are more important than the sound in my opinion.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 28, 2016)

Christof said:


> Actually I am talking about phrasing and articulation.
> These are more important than the sound in my opinion.



Tell that a client when you are in a commercial project. The client will bang around that argumentation right in your face. While I understand to a certain degree your argumentation I have always to look for a strong convincing sound as well because in the end the right "sound" is whats more important to my clients than a cool phrasing or a special fancy articulation.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jun 28, 2016)

Christof said:


> Actually I am talking about phrasing and articulation.
> These are more important than the sound in my opinion.


I hope you read my remark is an interest Christof. I know that I can be picky when it comes to VI pianos because I play the instrument. You tend to look for specific things. 

But I understand what you mean I think regarding phrasing and articulation. SM sure is a versatile vi in that respect.

It would be interesting to somewhere down the line of development when a hybrid sample with modeling will arise.

I wonder what you think of the bohemian cello/ violin especially when they have added the first expansion to it.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jun 28, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Tell that a client when you are in a commercial project. The client will bang around that argumentation right in your face. While I understand to a certain degree your argumentation I have always to look for a strong convincing sound as well because in the end the right "sound" is whats more important to my clients than a cool phrasing or a special fancy articulation.


That is another need that has its own value.
I am glad I don't have to take that into account with my creations.
But I understand when you make a living with these vi's this of importance.


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## reddognoyz (Jun 28, 2016)

Bought it. I like it, it's very playable and I have no quarrel with the sound.


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## FriFlo (Jun 29, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Tell that a client when you are in a commercial project. The client will bang around that argumentation right in your face. While I understand to a certain degree your argumentation I have always to look for a strong convincing sound as well because in the end the right "sound" is whats more important to my clients than a cool phrasing or a special fancy articulation.


TBH, I think you overestimate your clients!  They won't listen on that level at all, they will mostly just say pretty or not pretty. If any of my customers ever complained about a virtual representation of an instrument, it was a producer playing the drums. Guess what he complained about? 
If I would object to anything about that SM Cello, it is the fact it seems to be very dark in sound and with the lack of good sounding high frequency content, I suppose it will be difficult to mix it with other instruments (e.g. String Quartet) in a room. But it seems to nail the realism in phrasing, so I will most probably buy it.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 29, 2016)

FriFlo said:


> TBH, I think you overestimate your clients!  They won't listen on that level at all, they will mostly just say pretty or not pretty. If any of my customers ever complained about a virtual representation of an instrument, it was a producer playing the drums. Guess what he complained about?
> If I would object to anything about that SM Cello, it is the fact it seems to be very dark in sound and with the lack of good sounding high frequency content, I suppose it will be difficult to mix it with other instruments (e.g. String Quartet) in a room. But it seems to nail the realism in phrasing, so I will most probably buy it.



Allright, I don´t know about your clients, FriFlo, but at least for me the bottom line is what my clients can be like when it comes to such things. And some of them who where previous composers for the media by themselves are nowadays having companies and beeing producers telling others what to do (for instance me) and one thing I can tell you so far: They have a very delicate ear and it is sometimes not easy even with the newest fancy technology to convince them. So not to make short story too long: I am glad that you like the SM Celli for yourself, so buy it, and I am looking forward to any demo or track you are gonna do with it  I still think the SM Cello is not bad at all, maybe my expactations are also a way too high..don´t know.


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## zeng (Jun 29, 2016)

I listened demos; It sounds like electric cello to me


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## wolf (Jun 29, 2016)

I scoured the internet for other demos and found 3 that all sound better to me than the official demos:

 (beginning, followed by a few other instruments)

https://jasonwatts.net/2016/06/27/sample-modelings-the-cello-now-available/ (for John Williams fans)

 (Arabic music context)


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## kevinlee87 (Jun 30, 2016)

Top notch. Can't wait for violin and bass.


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## tack (Jun 30, 2016)

I definitely hear what people are complaining about in the tone, but the agility and expressiveness is really a stunning accomplishment in my opinion. It really makes up for a lot of the tonal issues.


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## LHall (Jul 1, 2016)

I bought the cello the other day. Haven't had a lot of time to play with it yet, but I think it sounds wonderful and the playability is beyond wonderful. 

I've come to the point where I can't judge any VI until playing it. I recently bought a library based on the sound in the demos and a few reviews. Once I played with it awhile, I went back to my go-to string library. It just didn't have the "life" once I started playing it. 

The new SM Cello definitely has "the life"!


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## PerryD (Jul 1, 2016)

A quick test of the Cello. Real time with my breath controller.


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Jul 1, 2016)

getting better...


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## John57 (Jul 1, 2016)

yes some better demo's the vibrato is what throws me off not the usual vibrato that I hear on the cello


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## PerryD (Jul 1, 2016)

John57 said:


> yes some better demo's the vibrato is what throws me off not the usual vibrato that I hear on the cello


 The vibrato is widely adjustable. I'm still tweaking things to my taste at this point. The agility without key switches is pretty amazing IMHO.


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## John57 (Jul 1, 2016)

According to the web page: _Each Cello includes several "instruments" with a different timbre which can be loaded via the main GUI. _Any demo samples on this? Also how large is the library?


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## Quasar (Jul 1, 2016)

PerryD said:


> A quick test of the Cello. Real time with my breath controller.




This is wonderful. Thank you. The tone even sounds better on this than on the other demos I've heard. Do you think this can be articulated similarly on a keyboard? I neither own nor have ever tried a breath controller, and don't have a good sense of their comparative abilities & limitations.


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## PerryD (Jul 1, 2016)

John57 said:


> According to the web page: _Each Cello includes several "instruments" with a different timbre which can be loaded via the main GUI. _Any demo samples on this? Also how large is the library?


 There are 12 timbre variations to choose from. I'm partial to the first one on the list for now.
The footprint is tiny on the cello. I'm not near my DAW right now to see the exact size. I may do a more detailed demo once I have it dialed in to taste.


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## PerryD (Jul 1, 2016)

Tugboat said:


> This is wonderful. Thank you. The tone even sounds better on this than on the other demos I've heard. Do you think this can be articulated similarly on a keyboard? I neither own nor have ever tried a breath controller, and don't have a good sense of their comparative abilities & limitations.


 Thank you! You can use just about any midi controller that can transmit CC11. I personally would be lost without my breath controller. Not only on Samplemodeling libraries...just about everything but percussion. Hmmm...maybe I'll assign hihat open/close position to my BC.


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## zeng (Jul 1, 2016)

so which one to buy??! SM Cello or Virharmonic Cello?


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## shmorrell (Jul 1, 2016)

I get very good results using a midi volume pedal for expression and mod wheel for vibrato control. 

I have had just a little time to play with the SM cello and I'm loving it so far. I don't hear any of the phasing issues others have reported. I think the tone is lovely. The only thing I'm not loving is the down-bow sound (esp. short notes at higher velocities). Sounds a tad plastic-y to me. 

Highly recommended if you're willing to take the time to learn how to play it.


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## Joe_D (Jul 1, 2016)

zeng said:


> so which one to buy??! SM Cello or Virharmonic Cello?



My opinion is:

If you prefer to play in lines quickly and without much fuss or controller input that sound pretty natural with excellent recording quality and intelligent but baked-in expressive content, get the Virharmonic Cello.

If you prefer to sculpt carefully with lots of controller input the exact line shape that you want with good sound quality (EDIT: removed an "a little off" comment about the sound quality after the 1.1.2 update, which much improved the tone, IMO) and outstanding expressive content, get the SM Cello.

Or just get both!


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## robgb (Jul 2, 2016)

AlexRuger said:


> Couldn't agree more. Their brass is 100% perfect, but the viola (and now cello) each just sound off.



Different ears, I guess. I agree about the tone of the cello, but I think the viola sounds great....


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## robgb (Jul 2, 2016)

PerryD said:


> A quick test of the Cello. Real time with my breath controller.




After hearing this, I've changed my mind about the cello. I think it sounds great.


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## robgb (Jul 2, 2016)

I have to wonder what our reactions would be if we heard this and didn't know it was modeled vs. recorded. I suspect we'd be saying wow.


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## Alatar (Jul 4, 2016)

I did a cover of the Game Of Thrones theme, using the Sample Modeling Cello.
I think, The Cello has a nice tone, but it does not sound quite like a real cello. Especially the uppger registers can sound synthy.
All three Cellos are from Sample Modeling. I then added Altiverb for reverberation.

www.alatarmusic.com/data/music/2016/GOT_Theme_v2_040716.mp3


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## robgb (Jul 4, 2016)

Sounds great to me. I think people hear what they want to hear (including me).


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## robgb (Jul 4, 2016)

P.S. Nothing sounds like a real cello except a real cello. Not sure why people are so obsessed with the idea.


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Jul 4, 2016)

robgb said:


> P.S. Nothing sounds like a real cello except a real cello



YET


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## Alatar (Jul 4, 2016)

robgb said:


> P.S. Nothing sounds like a real cello except a real cello. Not sure why people are so obsessed with the idea.
> 
> 
> Gabriel Oliveira said:
> ...



In theory, all you need to do is solve Newtons equations of motion for a Cello. If you do that, you get a perfectly and realistically modeled cello. 
But not so easy in practice


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## Rob (Jul 5, 2016)

I think the Swam cello, like all their line of instruments, need a certain skill to be played, like a real instrument would... I agree that a certain amount of synthyness is present, in the end this IS a synth, but the playability is great.

www.robertosoggetti.com/CelloImprovisation.mp3


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## Dani Donadi (Jul 5, 2016)

Rob said:


> I think the Swam cello, like all their line of instruments, need a certain skill to be played, like a real instrument would... I agree that a certain amount of synthyness is present, in the end this IS a synth, but the playability is great.
> 
> www.robertosoggetti.com/CelloImprovisation.mp3


Hi Roberto,
Great improv!!! I love the the reverb too, what are you using?
Ciao
Dani


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## Rob (Jul 5, 2016)

Dani Donadi said:


> Hi Roberto,
> Great improv!!! I love the the reverb too, what are you using?
> Ciao
> Dani


Hi Dani, thank you! It' a touch of LPX plate...


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## StefanoLucato (Jul 6, 2016)

Thanks Perry, Alatar and Rob for yours great demos 

Stefano
SWAM Team


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## Erik (Jul 7, 2016)

Two more examples with the cello of SampleModeling.

First one: the world famous Ave Maria in the Gounod version.


Second one: the Bachianas Brasileiras No.5, this time on cello and piano. Original version is for mezzo-soprano and 8 (!) celli.


Playabilty is superb, there have been some dynamic EQ'ing implemented a.o. to achieve a hopefully better and more lively sound.


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## zeng (Jul 7, 2016)

Why I can't like the sound of this cello? It is sounding synthy / electric cello to me :/ great demos btw


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## rdieters (Jul 8, 2016)

Tugboat said:


> This is wonderful. Thank you. The tone even sounds better on this than on the other demos I've heard. Do you think this can be articulated similarly on a keyboard? I neither own nor have ever tried a breath controller, and don't have a good sense of their comparative abilities & limitations.



You can't without a breath controller. It's much faster and more intuitive than any modwheel or pedal. Watch the videos below if you are not convinced, but until you try one you won't fully appreciate the world of difference a breath controller makes.


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## PerryD (Jul 8, 2016)

I'm still experimenting with the Cello. I did Cello, two Violas and two Flutes here. If SM creates the remainder of a full quartet, I will have some serious fun! I hesitate to share these quick mixes...I really love some of the other demos in this thread!


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## Quasar (Jul 8, 2016)

rdieters said:


> You can't without a breath controller. It's much faster and more intuitive than any modwheel or pedal. Watch the videos below if you are not convinced, but until you try one you won't fully appreciate the world of difference a breath controller makes.



Wow... The TEControl BBC2 looks & sounds pretty impressive indeed...


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## John57 (Jul 30, 2016)

robgb said:


> Different ears, I guess. I agree about the tone of the cello, but I think the viola sounds great....


I agree, I find that the viola sounds great!


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## Fa (Aug 10, 2016)

My 2 cents...
The Swam


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## Batrawi (Sep 15, 2016)

Downloaded yesterday and I must say it's an incredibly playable VI. I believe this concept -even though it is synth-based- is yet the closest to realism than any sampled real instrument so far! I would really be interested in a Violin if they make one (any news if SM is planning for that?)

I'm no sound engineer or mastering expert, but I think the biggest enemy of this VI is the synthy/metallic resonance that becomes very audible/distinguished specially at high dynamics (which I understand is perfectly normal in such type of VI's)... But here where the personal talent comes into play and my question to you guys... Have discovered any methods (probably EQuing/adding Fx etc..) where you were able to successfully mask or cut out such unwanted resonance?

Any tips would be very much appreciated.


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## damstraversaz (Sep 15, 2016)

proximity is very useful in this case, I'm using it a lot with the viola, and it really give me the tone I'm searching

http://vi-control.net/community/thr...vintage-effect-on-strings.52312/#post-3944015


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## Batrawi (Sep 15, 2016)

Interesting! Is that a free plug? 
Too good to be true for what it does!

I understand the parameters are set to taste, but what values would use for "modeled" strings such SM's viola or cello (as opposed to "sampled" strings like the ones used in the other example)?
coz it would be a good starting point for me..


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