# How Many Films/Projects Do You Reject?



## YoungComposer (Dec 9, 2012)

I am a student composer that has been getting a lot fo professional work since I started about 7 or 8 months ago.

Originally, i was thrilled to take any job that accepted my application. Then slowly I would only work if some compensation was involved....then a bit more.

At present (since I am just starting), I have decided to only take jobs that I believe in with a good script, actors and production value. Obviously I prefer for money, but if the right project comes along I have no issue as I think it would be much more beneficial for me to have a good quality project in my portfolio. I also think that in a portfolio a high quality production almost matters more to perspective clients than your music sometimes (not always).

In any case, I am offered at least 4 a week and I turn down a lot. Like 90% of them, waiting for the "right" one.

Is this a good idea or should I just take as many gigs as I can?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 9, 2012)

You get 4 professional offers a week? I'm lucky to get 4 offers a month, and that's a GREAT month! Where do you live?!! >8o 

I hope you're passing on the gigs you don't want to some of your starving buddies! :wink:

And FWIW, my suggestion is not to wait for the 'right' project, but rather to do as many as you can, for there is nothing, IMO, that beats on-the-job training for composing to image, and the more styles you tackle, the more well-rounded you'll be.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 9, 2012)

Don't work for free. Even if it is a _small_ amount of money, if the person is not investing at least some money in you, they have no financial stake in your succeeding and therefore making it work.


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## rgames (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm having a hard time believing the 4/week claim, too... but whatever. Good on you.

If you're talking only about films then I wouldn't waste time on crappy productions unless the money is really good. I've given some library tracks to some guys who wound up crediting me in films that were absolutely awful. Bad credits do more harm than good, I believe, so keep them off your resume.

Back when I was pitching for some film work, I also skipped the ones that paid very little or looked really bad. The end result was that after a year or two I did one decent film (that never went anywhere), a couple smaller films that were bad, then I quit getting the opportunities. So I don't do any film work any more.

The bottom line is that the decision is too personal to be able to gain any insight from opinions on a public forum like this.

If it's not films, then the situation changes: is the money worth your while? Since credits aren't as much of an issue, you can focus squarely on the cash flows.

rgames


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## Alex Cuervo (Dec 9, 2012)

How the heck are you getting 4 film offers a week? Are these student films? Short films? This greatly affects the approach to them. If you're trying to make a living at this, then I agree - don't work for free unless it's for close friends whose efforts you want to support. If you're still in school and these offers are for student films - then heck yes - do as much as you can for the practice of scoring to picture. My $.02


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## passenger57 (Dec 9, 2012)

> If you're talking only about films then I wouldn't waste time on crappy productions unless the money is really good.



Probably true, but dont forget, the composer for 'Humanoids from the Deep' went on to be James Horner! lol


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 9, 2012)

rgames @ Sun Dec 09 said:


> I'm having a hard time believing the 4/week claim, too... but whatever. Good on you.
> 
> If you're talking only about films then I wouldn't waste time on crappy productions unless the money is really good. I've given some library tracks to some guys who wound up crediting me in films that were absolutely awful. Bad credits do more harm than good, I believe, so keep them off your resume.
> 
> ...



I disagree. The only credits that matter are ones where the project makes a lot of money. Good film, bad film, doesn't matter.

Take a film for the following reasons:
1. Get paid, at least something, to write.
2. Do a film that requires a different kind of music than others you have done.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 9, 2012)

I would be willing to bet that 99% of the producers who have hired me in the past, had never seen some of the 'unique' films and tv shows that I've done. <whipes his brow, lets out a whew.> I think they care more about what network it played on. But maybe I'm wrong.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 9, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Dec 09 said:


> I would be willing to bet that 99% of the producers who have hired me in the past, had never seen some of the 'unique' films and tv shows that I've done. <whipes his brow, lets out a whew.> I think they care more about what network it played on. But maybe I'm wrong.



You're NOT wrong. Producers are businessman. They don't first ask, "How good was it", they ask "How much did it make"?"

There is a reason it is called "show business". I'll give you a little example: In the 90's when "Zorro" was first airing, I was asked to submit a theme song for a pilot, I was told only 3 composers were competing and the composer whose theme they liked best would score the pilot and because the show was "pre-sold", the series. (That turned out to be wrong as it id NOT go to series.)

Well, according to the network I"blew the other 2 out of the water" and scored the pilot.

I found out later who the two composers I had competed with were. One was actually a dear friend, John Toben, who has sadly passed away. The other was a guy doing a sitcom for NBC that was struggling the ratings. He had invested a lot of money in his studio to do the show and was close to broke, so he was royally pissed off that I go the show, as the main producer was a friend of his and he thought it was a slam dunk.

His name was Jonathan Wolff and the show was "Seinfeld", which became a monster hit.. The next season it took off, my pilot never made it to series, and the following year, he had 6 shows on the air and I had none. 

And THAT, my friends, is how show business works. :lol:


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## YoungComposer (Dec 9, 2012)

Okay, maybe not 4 a week but at least 8 a month. Jobs range from local to North America and Europe (remotely of course). Some professional, some low end and yes some student projects.
I apply to as many as I can, plus I do get a lot of steady work from people I have previously worked with. 

Also, I forgot to mention they are not all films*. Some are promotional videos, audio books, commercials, websites, jingles, etc.

The range is something I really enjoy and I think it's great practice. To date, I have worked with Lego, San Jose University, Vanier College, Chevrolet, MTV, etc. Atm I'm working on two documentaries, two short films, a commercial and a feature. 

I would take on more work, but I am a full time student with a full time job in addition to composing. Not to mention, I just started teaching composition/orchestration part time, so taking on everything I receive is simply impossible.

I kinda agree with never working for free, plus it sets up bad relationship/self value with people you intend to work with again.

In any case, you're responses were very helpful and I'll keep waiting for work that I enjoy and pays well.


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## Kralc (Dec 9, 2012)

Where are you applying for all these jobs?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 9, 2012)

Wow, what a slacker! Let me get this straight:

- full-time student
- full-time job
- part-time teacher
- 6 gigs at the same time

You are an outstanding person. In your position, I would refuse everything else... Except love, of course! 8)


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## R.Cato (Dec 9, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Dec 09 said:


> Wow, what a slacker! Let me get this straight:
> 
> - full-time student
> - full-time job
> ...



I dunno what it is. But it seems that I did something wrong in my life. >8o


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## germancomponist (Dec 9, 2012)

R.Cato @ Sun Dec 09 said:


> I dunno what it is. But it seems that I did something wrong in my life. >8o



Oh no, just type your dreams here...... .


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## passenger57 (Dec 9, 2012)

> And THAT, my friends, is how show business works.


Heartbreaking! Reminds me of when my roommate back in the late 90s missed out on being Danny Elfman's assistant. We couldn't afford to pay our phone bill, the phone was disconnected and he missed the big call. He only found out later Danny was going to hire him, but couldn't get in touch, so he hired someone else!


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## YoungComposer (Dec 9, 2012)

Lol I know, "what a slacker!". Have not had a single day off in about 1 and counting, but hey I'd rather be working than not, right? Plus, I have two books in the works...

As for where I am finding jobs... I began looking at local schools, and community for work then on Craigslist in every city in the states, Vimeo, Guru and many other sites too.

Lately though, many directors are finding me so that's a huge plus.


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## JJP (Dec 9, 2012)

Several months ago I passed on an opportunity to work on this holiday season's biggest film (not as a composer) because I couldn't justify doing the work for what they were offering. That project could clearly afford to pay industry standard wages and benefits. Sure enough, some other bum came along and took the job for even less than what I was offered. :roll:


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## Kralc (Dec 9, 2012)

Two books? Well now you're just showing off! 

Congratulations! And thanks for the tips.


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## DavidAdeyemi (Dec 9, 2012)

I reject them ALL! I REFUSE to pick up the phone unless Steven Spielberg calls!

...............

I'm getting a little frustrated....I think he's trying to wind me up.

   XD XD


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## Lex (Dec 9, 2012)

YoungComposer @ Sun Dec 09 said:


> Okay, maybe not 4 a week but at least 8 a month. Jobs range from local to North America and Europe (remotely of course). Some professional, some low end and yes some student projects.
> I apply to as many as I can, plus I do get a lot of steady work from people I have previously worked with.
> 
> Also, I forgot to mention they are not all films*. Some are promotional videos, audio books, commercials, websites, jingles, etc.
> ...



Impressive! I'm really looking forward to hear some of your work in the future.

I don't have an advice, except keep doing what you r doing, cause it sounds like it's working out real well.  

Best,

alex


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## YoungComposer (Dec 9, 2012)

DavidAdeyemi @ Sun Dec 09 said:


> I reject them ALL! I REFUSE to pick up the phone unless Steven Spielberg calls!
> 
> ...............
> 
> ...



He has called, but his work is just a little too amateur for me Kidding!

And yes two books but those are about 3-4 years down the line. Thanks for the comments.


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## Markus S (Dec 10, 2012)

passenger57 @ Sun Dec 09 said:


> > And THAT, my friends, is how show business works.
> 
> 
> Heartbreaking! Reminds me of when my roommate back in the late 90s missed out on being Danny Elfman's assistant. We couldn't afford to pay our phone bill, the phone was disconnected and he missed the big call. He only found out later Danny was going to hire him, but couldn't get in touch, so he hired someone else!



That hurts only from reading it..


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## Dan Mott (Dec 10, 2012)

YoungComposer @ Mon Dec 10 said:


> Lol I know, "what a slacker!". Have not had a single day off in about 1 and counting, but hey I'd rather be working than not, right? Plus, I have two books in the works...
> 
> As for where I am finding jobs... I began looking at local schools, and community for work then on Craigslist in every city in the states, Vimeo, Guru and many other sites too.
> 
> Lately though, many directors are finding me so that's a huge plus.




You make me feel even more pathetic.


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## Greg (Dec 10, 2012)

Just a small bit of advice regarding rejecting gigs-

Try your best not to burn any bridges, these agencies & directors contacting you are also building their careers and you certainly don't want them to write you off when future work comes around, especially if they themselves get a good gig!!


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## YuHirà (Dec 11, 2012)

> Don't work for free. Even if it is a small amount of money, if the person is not investing at least some money in you, they have no financial stake in your succeeding and therefore making it work.



There is an advice I read a few years ago in a lawyer's office:

*Work for free, work for full price, but do not work for cheap. *

It's in contradiction with your statement (Sorry o-[][]-o ) but I like it very much :D


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## reddognoyz (Dec 11, 2012)

you know the old axiom, fast cheap good, pick any two, (and as a composer, make sure "cheap" isn't an option)


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