# How's my mix in progress



## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 3, 2021)

New track added: 

EDIT UPDATE: FULL TRACK
Any opinions/critiques are welcome, I've heard it too many times.

I took a shovel to the brass - hopefully for the better.


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## dhmusic (Dec 3, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Any opinions/critiques are welcome, I've heard it too many times.
> 
> I took a shovel to the brass - hopefully for the better.



Hearing this makes me want to have a boss-song fight with you and I mean that as a compliment


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 3, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> Hearing this makes me want to have a boss-song fight with you and I mean that as a compliment


This parts okay - it's mostly orchestra. You should hear earlier when I have a metal band mixed in. I'm sitting here googling "how to mix metal drums"


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## dhmusic (Dec 3, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> This parts okay - it's mostly orchestra. You should hear earlier when I have a metal band mixed in. I'm sitting here googling "how to mix metal drums"


The orchestra is my favorite part! I veer away from rock drums/guitars in my original stuff mostly and when I do covers I try to replace all the band stuff if possible and adapt the parts orchestrally, but that's just my approach. 

I bet that section sounds awesome, can't wait to hear it.


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## dhmusic (Dec 3, 2021)

That's Requiem right?


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## axb312 (Dec 3, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Any opinions/critiques are welcome, I've heard it too many times.
> 
> I took a shovel to the brass - hopefully for the better.



Feel like it could use a little bit of top end and some bass centering..

Also, the Brass and the Strings feel like their at the same width. Perhaps this is intended and/ or is the best sound...not sure...

Not a mixing pro tho....


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 3, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> That's Requiem right?


Yep!


axb312 said:


> Feel like it could use a little bit of top end and some bass centering..
> 
> Also, the Brass and the Strings feel like their at the same width. Perhaps this is intended and/ or is the best sound...not sure...
> 
> Not a mixing pro tho....


mm i probs just hard panned the brass and strings. Maybe I could narrow the strings a bit. Thanks for the feedback!


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## Trash Panda (Dec 3, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Any opinions/critiques are welcome, I've heard it too many times.
> 
> I took a shovel to the brass - hopefully for the better.



I’m hearing a lot of low mid rumble. Could probably use some dynamic eq to tame the wub wub rumble coming from the strings and timpani. Just don’t overdo it. 

Some 2:1 compression on the choir can help keep it present where it’s getting overwhelmed with pushing it too far forward in the mix. 

For mixing metal stuff, I’m happy to help or share resources if desired.


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## b_elliott (Dec 3, 2021)

First off, I know you are a damn fine composer. At the risk of being a bloody nuisance, my 2 cents:

Before I listened to your mix, I read some mention in this thread of metal. So, I first listened to my go-to metal reference, Pantera's I'm Broken. 

Pretending this is the reference mix for your mix, your mix is waaaaaay too boomy, lacks top end, and about 18dB louder than the reference --whoa! In fact I was startled when I turned on your SC track it was so loud compared to Pantera.

You'll notice Pantera has controlled solid bottom end with lots more high end info and sounds just fine at medium loud to neighbor-complaining loud.

I know nothing of epic music so likely am way off the mark for you; however, from my perspective, find your reference mix, then re-mix low end with more mids to HMF.

Am curious how this turns out. 
Note: For the record I am a novice to all things mix-wise.


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## SyMTiK (Dec 3, 2021)

Out of context it can be a bit hard to discern the impact you are having on dynamics, but this does seem to be hitting the limiter a bit hard for the genre. I find that your transients are lacking a bit of definition, which could be a result of over compression. I personally would want to hear the transients have some more bite to them as they become a bit lost in the mix, everything feels too glued together. Desirable in a commercial metal song, but a little less so in an orchestral mix - I personally would rather hear something a little quieter with some more room to breathe.

My only other note besides that would be the same note that was mentioned earlier, there is a fair bit of low mid buildup which would be fixed with dynamic eq. also low cutting some rumble from the room on certain instruments. 

Besides that though, I think this a great sounding arrangement and on its way to being a great sounding mix!  

Also saw you were looking for tutorials on mixing metal drums. Adam Nolly Getgood has some great mixing tutorials on youtube! He has pretty much defined the current sound in metal drum production. Just search Nolly Drum Mixing on youtube and you should find a bunch of videos on his process! All are good and provide a pretty general ideal behind mixing drums as a whole.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 3, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I’m hearing a lot of low mid rumble. Could probably use some dynamic eq to tame the wub wub rumble coming from the strings and timpani. Just don’t overdo it.
> 
> Some 2:1 compression on the choir can help keep it present where it’s getting overwhelmed with pushing it too far forward in the mix.
> 
> For mixing metal stuff, I’m happy to help or share resources if desired.


Cool - I think the perc is the main offender with the low mid rumble (and the basses, I boosted a bit much).

Ill share when I am ready to attempt mixing the band in. I've never done it before so it should be interesting.


b_elliott said:


> First off, I know you are a damn fine composer. At the risk of being a bloody nuisance, my 2 cents:
> 
> Before I listened to your mix, I read some mention in this thread of metal. So, I first listened to my go-to metal reference, Pantera's I'm Broken.
> 
> ...


Thanks!

I've done a lot of scooping with the mids, especially the brass to make way for the choir/strings and sometimes band. That pantera track probably isn't quite the mix/sound balance I am after tho I do appreciate the suggestion - it will probably be much more helpful for the band stuff in the track. It's hard to use a reference because I can't find one that is quite right with what I am doing. Perhaps Ill have another look.

Thanks for the suggestions/critique. Very helpful.


SyMTiK said:


> Out of context it can be a bit hard to discern the impact you are having on dynamics, but this does seem to be hitting the limiter a bit hard for the genre. I find that your transients are lacking a bit of definition, which could be a result of over compression. I personally would want to hear the transients have some more bite to them as they become a bit lost in the mix, everything feels too glued together. Desirable in a commercial metal song, but a little less so in an orchestral mix - I personally would rather hear something a little quieter with some more room to breathe.
> 
> My only other note besides that would be the same note that was mentioned earlier, there is a fair bit of low mid buildup which would be fixed with dynamic eq. also low cutting some rumble from the room on certain instruments.
> 
> ...


I just went through the compression and relaxed the attack quite a bit. Not sure if it will be the main solution but hopefully helps.

Thanks for the Nolly tip - I am actually using GGD Invasion + Smash n Grab which has yielded some great results for someone who knows f all about this shit.
View attachment 2021-12-04_13-31-36.mp4


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## dhmusic (Dec 3, 2021)

Don't overthink it. Finish it first, then mix it.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 3, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> Don't overthink it. Finish it first, then mix it.


Oh it's finished.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 3, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> Don't overthink it. Finish it first, then mix it.


If I could just finish tracks and then hand ball them off to someone else, I'd be happier than a pig in shit.


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## dhmusic (Dec 3, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> If I could just finish tracks and then hand ball them off to someone else, I'd be happier than a pig in shit.


Have you gotten to the band part yet?


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 3, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> Have you gotten to the band part yet?


See above vid. Yeah! All of this is regarding mixing.


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## dhmusic (Dec 3, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> See above vid. Yeah! All of this is regarding mixing.


oh sweet. ummm... well I'll just wait here in that case. Take as long as you need...

...

...No rush...


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 3, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> oh sweet. ummm... well I'll just wait here in that case. Take as long as you need...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...No rush...


So much music to mix. Over 100 stings, 3 loops ~4 mins each. Kill me.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 3, 2021)

Seriously what even are sounds?
View attachment 2021-12-04_14-07-28.mp4


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## Trash Panda (Dec 3, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> So much music to mix. Over 100 stings, 3 loops ~4 mins each. Kill me.


If you think that's bad...






Final Fantasy 6 "Dancing Mad" Metal Opera Cover


After nearly 6 months of part time work in the few hours a day I get not working or playing dad/hubby, it is finally done. Finally! Welcome to nearly 19 minutes of insanity. Nobuo Uematsu's magnum opus in a symphonic metal style akin to a rock/metal opera. I stress the symphonic part as all...




vi-control.net


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 3, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> If you think that's bad...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes I saw this haha


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## dhmusic (Dec 3, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> If you think that's bad...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is just 19 minutes of Kefka laughing - don't fall for it


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## Joël Dollié (Dec 4, 2021)

Very cool!

1: This track is very busy, I think you could keep the reverb on the shorter side for a hall and a little drier on the strings/brass in order to retain more clarity and impact.

2: The sustain stuff is drowning the percussive/stabby stuff a little?

3: The choir feels a little bit too upfront compared to the level of the FFF brass?

So yeah feeling the bass as being a bit more punchy, present and dynamic could be nice, but of course when you have so many tracks some level of rumble is inevitable

Difficult to analyze the treble on soundcloud but it sounds like it's fine


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 4, 2021)

Joël Dollié said:


> Very cool!
> 
> 1: This track is very busy, I think you could keep the reverb on the shorter side for a hall and a little drier on the strings/brass in order to retain more clarity and impact.
> 
> ...


1 - yes I tend to be a wordy composer. I could cut the tails off the brass (JXL) but the strings are HS + CSS and I don't think I have any reverb applied! 

2 - just a basic re-balancing would fix it?

3 - easy!

bass punch? multiband or just re mixing? 

Thanks for that - very insightful. Ill have a look at it again on monday. I definitely read your post in your voice btw haha


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## Joël Dollié (Dec 5, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> 1 - yes I tend to be a wordy composer. I could cut the tails off the brass (JXL) but the strings are HS + CSS and I don't think I have any reverb applied!
> 
> 2 - just a basic re-balancing would fix it?
> 
> ...


Yeah I think it's mostly about rebalancing and EQ for everything  And I wouldn't cut any tails artificially. And woah no reverb? Then maybe it's the amount of layers giving this feel.

Good luck with the track ! 

Lol with the french accent


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 5, 2021)

Seriously you guys, I hate mixing so much. 

It's like...hey you spent all that time writing a track that you really like - now lets see if you can ruin it.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 5, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Seriously you guys, I hate mixing so much.
> 
> It's like...hey you spent all that time writing a track that you really like - now lets see if you can ruin it.


It's a mindset thing. I also hated mixing at first. It's what lead me to using AI-powered plugins to do it for me. Then one day a switch flipped and mixing became a "how much more awesome can I make this sound" mindset and problem solving exercise.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 5, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> It's a mindset thing. I also hated mixing at first. It's what lead me to using AI-powered plugins to do it for me. Then one day a switch flipped and mixing became a "how much more awesome can I make this sound" mindset and problem solving exercise.


can't I just be rich and pay someone else to do it?


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## Trash Panda (Dec 5, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> can't I just be rich and pay someone else to do it?


Sure. Go get rich and then pay someone else to do it.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 5, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Sure. Go get rich and then pay someone else to do it.


alright hang on.


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## jbuhler (Dec 5, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Seriously you guys, I hate mixing so much.
> 
> It's like...hey you spent all that time writing a track that you really like - now lets see if you can ruin it.


I’m right there with you.


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## Joël Dollié (Dec 6, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> alright hang on.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 8, 2021)

View attachment 2021-12-09_10-52-18.mp4



Trying my darndest - I guess my main goal is to try to make most things at least audible.

Sidechaining some dyn eq ~ (signal = band, compressor on orchestra)





by the way @Joël Dollié everything I know about mixing pretty much comes from you so take that as the compliment or insult it is depending on what you think of my mixes haha.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 8, 2021)

updated full track


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## dhmusic (Dec 8, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> EDIT UPDATE: FULL TRACK
> Any opinions/critiques are welcome, I've heard it too many times.
> 
> I took a shovel to the brass - hopefully for the better.





SimonCharlesHanna said:


> updated full track


Dude you used _all_ the special moves! I think this would actually work in something like Jojo's Bizarre Adventure or One-Punch Man. Something with that constantly escalates to ridiculous heights. It's pretty badass nice job


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 8, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> Dude you used _all_ the special moves! I think this would actually work in something like Jojo's Bizarre Adventure or One-Punch Man. Something with that constantly escalates to ridiculous heights. It's pretty badass nice job


Sweet I just recently watched both of them haha. (loved them both)

Thanks. Still got 2 more to mix + a million stings


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## dhmusic (Dec 8, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Sweet I just recently watched both of them haha. (loved them both)
> 
> Thanks. Still got 2 more to mix + a million stings


Is it for something?


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 8, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> Is it for something?


My App








OST Tabletop Music Companion | Mobile App


Tabletop Music App | One of Tabletop's first interactive soundtrack apps for iOS & Android!




www.tabletopmusicapp.com


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## Trash Panda (Dec 8, 2021)

I think it's coming along nicely!

Questions to try to help on the band side of the mix: 

Are you wanting all of the drums to hit as hard as the kick? Are you processing each element separately? If so, what are your compression settings for each element?
Is the intent for the drums to be very dry?
Could you post the guitars isolated and the frequency curve or the current EQ applied?
Same as the above for the bass?
Going back for a more critical listen on the orchestral side now.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 8, 2021)

On the orchestral side, the choir feels a bit too present (up front) in the mix. If you're using Requiem Pro, I would recommend dialing back the close mics and use the tree/room mics and only bring up the close mics via CC or automation for when you want the focus on the choir over the other elements. If you're using Requiem Light, there are tools like Panagement (free), Precedence or SP2016 ($79 through 1/3) or standard reverb tricks you can use to push them back further in the mix.

The brass is a bit overwhelming against the other orchestral elements, drowning out the strings quite a bit in particular. Don't get me wrong, I love loud, snarly brass, but it could stand to be dialed down a bit or lowered in volume some.

If you haven't already, I would recommend some surgical cuts in the rhythm guitars at 1.5k, 3k and 4k. Especially 4k as it will step over everything else and typically just sounds like a nasty hissy element.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 8, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I think it's coming along nicely!
> 
> Questions to try to help on the band side of the mix:
> 
> ...


Ill be honest - I have never mixed a track like this before so all I am aiming for is it to sound coherent. The more creative decisions are really secondary as I dont really know wtf I am doing.

Each drum is processed separate but I am using Smash n Grab so I cant really say exactly what I am doing haha.






Trash Panda said:


> On the orchestral side, the choir feels a bit too present (up front) in the mix. If you're using Requiem Pro, I would recommend dialing back the close mics and use the tree/room mics and only bring up the close mics via CC or automation for when you want the focus on the choir over the other elements. If you're using Requiem Light, there are tools like Panagement (free), Precedence or SP2016 ($79 through 1/3) or standard reverb tricks you can use to push them back further in the mix.
> 
> The brass is a bit overwhelming against the other orchestral elements, drowning out the strings quite a bit in particular. Don't get me wrong, I love loud, snarly brass, but it could stand to be dialed down a bit or lowered in volume some.
> 
> If you haven't already, I would recommend some surgical cuts in the rhythm guitars at 1.5k, 3k and 4k. Especially 4k as it will step over everything else and typically just sounds like a nasty hissy element.


To be honest I am kinda liking the choir upfront stylistically - i might still dial it back but im not too stressed there I think.

will rebalance the other elements.

I did some surgery on the guitars as you said to get rid of the nasty tones. Seems to have worked nicely. (not in the soundcloud example)


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## Trash Panda (Dec 8, 2021)

Listening to the chugging rhythm guitars at around 2:35 or so, I can hear a lot of mud that's interfering with other elements. With metal guitars, you get your low end presence (and honestly, most of the character of the rhythm guitar tone) from the bass guitar.

I usually run a high pass filter on the guitar at around 80-120 Hz _before_ it goes into the overdrive pedal and amp. Really helps to tighten up the sound and minimize the flubbiness. If there's still low-mid flub, a dynamic EQ/focused multi-band compression on the mid-low range can take care of it from there.

Oh yeah, if you're getting all your gain from the amp/amp sim, you can vastly improve the guitar tone by turning down the amp gain, run the guitar through an overdrive pedal before the amp with the gain down and volume cranked up. Results will vary depending on the plugin (assuming you're using virtual pedals and amp sims), but it's a good rule of thumb.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 8, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Listening to the chugging rhythm guitars at around 2:35 or so, I can hear a lot of mud that's interfering with other elements. With metal guitars, you get your low end presence (and honestly, most of the character of the rhythm guitar tone) from the bass guitar.
> 
> I usually run a high pass filter on the guitar at around 80-120 Hz _before_ it goes into the overdrive pedal and amp. Really helps to tighten up the sound and minimize the flubbiness. If there's still low-mid flub, a dynamic EQ/focused multi-band compression on the mid-low range can take care of it from there.
> 
> Oh yeah, if you're getting all your gain from the amp/amp sim, you can vastly improve the guitar tone by turning down the amp gain, run the guitar through an overdrive pedal before the amp with the gain down and volume cranked up. Results will vary depending on the plugin (assuming you're using virtual pedals and amp sims), but it's a good rule of thumb.


Thanks for that very helpful - I am using Shreddage only haha.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 8, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Thanks for that very helpful - I am using Shreddage only haha.


Perfect. You should be able to set that up in the console area where the effects live if the interface is anything like TSS.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 8, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Perfect. You should be able to set that up in the console area where the effects live if the interface is anything like TSS.


Thanks ill check it out


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 16, 2021)

Added another track from the same set!


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