# Dies Irae *Updated*



## BenG (Jul 18, 2018)

Another track trying my hand at some more 'Epic/Trailer' music! As always, any feedback welcomed!

*Dies Irae*


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## markleake (Jul 19, 2018)

I don't produce trailer/epic style music, but I would say you need to work more on the choir here. A lot of the rest of the track sounds reasonable to me, but the choir shorts are easily the weakest link here. Choirs can't sing like that, not outside VIs anyway, so people will immediately focus on that issue because the choir is so up front in the mix.


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## BenG (Jul 19, 2018)

Thanks for the comments, @markleake! 

Like you, I don't really produce 'epic' music, so your advice regarding choirs is quite helpful! Just to clarify, is the issue your referring to just with the mix or the the composition/orchestration as well?

I'll definitely try and push the choir back some more (it is quite a dry-library) and I think lowering the dry signal+adding more ER should help.


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## fretti (Jul 19, 2018)

Imo the sound (quality, mixing etc.) of the choir is actually quite good and I like the rest of your piece (mixing, composition). But as @markleake already said, choirs don't sing like that. The shorts are to "perfect" and sound like they are breathing after every note they sing (hope that describes it quite well?!). 
Maybe you can play around with a release control, or try layering and something like the humanization feature in cubase? So that the syllables blend more together and don't stand out as much

BTW: do I hear a little Williams/Star Wars inspiration at the beginning?


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## BenG (Jul 19, 2018)

fretti said:


> BTW: do I hear a little Williams/Star Wars inspiration at the beginning?


What gave it away...? 

Thanks for clearing that p about the choirs and I did cut the releases waaay too short! I was having a transferring issues at this tempo for some reason and will go back and fix it. Also, perhaps layering with the marcatos/other lib would work well too! Thank you!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 19, 2018)

BenG said:


> Another track trying my hand at some more 'Epic/Trailer' music! As always, any feedback welcomed!
> 
> *Dies Irae*




That is imo the more honest trailer sound approach, not overly pounding drums, more a symphonic approach with some nice usage of woodwinds also (Why they don´t use woodwinds anymore..) and I like therefore a lot more than the stereotypical thing. Sounds more like trailers were back then like in 2010 or something because your example has some musicality inside which is a big plus for my personal taste. If you really want that more modern sound..yeah..that lowend and drums and has to slam more like a metal band..but like I say: this sounds more like a lively performance because it tries to maintain a little bit of dynamics still. The ending chord is a bit lazy for me. You could have done a bit more there imo, like "Dadada-dann, dann- dann-dann something like that.


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## BenG (Jul 19, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> That is imo the more honest trailer sound approach, not overly pounding drums, more a symphonic approach with some nice usage of woodwinds also (Why they don´t use woodwinds anymore..) and I like therefore a lot more than the stereotypical thing. Sounds more like trailers were back then like in 2010 or something because your example has some musicality inside which is a big plus for my personal taste. If you really want that more modern sound..yeah..that lowend and drums and has to slam more like a metal band..but like I say: this sounds more like a lively performance because it tries to maintain a little bit of dynamics still. The ending chord is a bit lazy for me. You could have done a bit more there imo, like "Dadada-dann, dann- dann-dann something like that.



Appreciate it Alex and funny you mention this! 

Recently, I have tried to get more into 'Epic/Trailer' music and quickly realized that I was a bit out of my element with the more modern sounding stuff. Coming from a traditional orchestral background, I decided to go stick with what I know while taking notes from classical/film composers and early trailer albums. So your description is exactly what I was hoping for!

You are also spot on about the ending and will need to rework to make it more interesting. As for woodwinds, I couldn't leave them out as a former woodwind player, but I'm surprised you heard them in there tbh! Even when not audible, I find they actually add some extra depth to the overall sound.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 19, 2018)

BenG said:


> Appreciate it Alex and funny you mention this!
> 
> Recently, I have tried to get more into 'Epic/Trailer' music and quickly realized that I was a bit out of my element with the more modern sounding stuff. Coming from a traditional orchestral background, I decided to go stick with what I know while taking notes from classical/film composers and early trailer albums. So your description is exactly what I was hoping for!
> 
> You are also spot on about the ending and will need to rework to make it more interesting. As for woodwinds, I couldn't leave them out as a former woodwind player, but I'm surprised you heard them in there tbh! Even when not audible, I find they actually add some extra depth to the overall sound.



Yeah, I know where you come from and I can hear that truely, thats the reason why I like it more than that other trailer stuff :D No, I mean each to their own. Not to slam the trailer music per se. However, thats good. Keep that musicality because that is a point where I see the better trailer music. Reminds me on older Thomas B. stuff you know and the ending..yeah..I was nitpicking..maybe you can make it a little more with twist or something. :D But man, thank you for sharing the piece!


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## BenG (Jul 19, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Yeah, I know where you come from and I can hear that truely, thats the reason why I like it more than that other trailer stuff :D No, I mean each to their own. Not to slam the trailer music per se. However, thats good. Keep that musicality because that is a point where I see the better trailer music. Reminds me on older Thomas B. stuff you know and the ending..yeah..I was nitpicking..maybe you can make it a little more with twist or something. :D But man, thank you for sharing the piece!



Yup definitely and glad to hear it! Also, appreciate the TB comparison although, it's nowhere near his amazing work
Big fan of your work as well, btw!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 19, 2018)

BenG said:


> Yup definitely and glad to hear it! Also, appreciate the TB comparison although, it's nowhere near his amazing work
> Big fan of your work as well, btw!



Yeah, but the vibe is there. he does a bit more dramatic all over the place sometimes in his writing and all this fancy modulation sometimes in a few bars. But the impression and vibe is there which is cool. Thank you for the words. PS: I also posted a new piece here lol. However keep up the great work and looking forward on your honest trailer compositions!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 19, 2018)

Hey Ben @BenG I had some fun trying a bit to pimp the sound. I wasn´t able to get rid of the beginning noise because it was too hot gained because of the pre compression on your track, so what I did is I downloaded your track from sc and tried to add a little but mojo. What do you think? I had just some fun with that track as I think it is cool but needs more mojo here and intensity. ALso to bring the choirs and sound to a intense dimension. The beginning was very difficult because it was too hotgained already. When I would have an uncompressed mix I would have better choices for that begining. However here is my take for you.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jsr6sochhwr815w/BENG_Test_master.wav?dl=0


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## BenG (Jul 19, 2018)

Very cool, Alex! Gonna have to listen on my studio system but already a big difference. As you may assume, mixing is not a strong suit

Also, really enjoyed your recent track. Thanks for sharing!


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## markleake (Jul 19, 2018)

BenG said:


> Thanks for the comments, @markleake!
> 
> Like you, I don't really produce 'epic' music, so your advice regarding choirs is quite helpful! Just to clarify, is the issue your referring to just with the mix or the the composition/orchestration as well?
> 
> I'll definitely try and push the choir back some more (it is quite a dry-library) and I think lowering the dry signal+adding more ER should help.


The orchestration is fine, it is just how you are using the choir shorts. Like is said above, the choir is singing very short notes with breaths in between. It is way too tight for real people to actually sing that... unless they've practiced that part a lot and are very good. So I'd suggest you solve whatever is going on with the VST, or you may need to mix it back some, or mix with other shorts or something to lessen the effect. The choir themselves sound fine though, just they are superhuman in ability here.


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## Svyato (Jul 20, 2018)

About the choir problem : It might depends on your vision and your aims; even if it not physically possible to sing like this, do you personnaly like it? It's V.I. so you can have fun with it, I like the idea of new possibilities by doing impossible things with V.I. . But if the piece has to be really performed, then you really have to care about the physical problem of performing your composition.


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## Loïc D (Jul 20, 2018)

I totally second Alexander's review.
If you have a way to soften the staccato voices, it would be better, but it's already very nice.

My only big complaint (not related to you) : SoundCloud is ruining the sound and creating horrible artifacts on high end. This is the trademark of SoundCloud and it's really damaging a lot of the wonderful creations made by members of VI-C.

How much time did it take to compose it ?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 20, 2018)

@BenG Would it be possible to sent me an uncompressed mixwave of that track in Wave, 24 bit with at least -6dB headroom still? I would try to clean it a bit up and try a master, if you like. I think the sound has some potential.


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## BenG (Jul 20, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> @BenG Would it be possible to sent me an uncompressed mixwave of that track in Wave, 24 bit with at least -6dB headroom still? I would try to clean it a bit up and try a master, if you like. I think the sound has some potential.



Sure thing, Alex! I'm travelling now but will PM when I'm back


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## BenG (Jul 20, 2018)

LowweeK said:


> I totally second Alexander's review.
> If you have a way to soften the staccato voices, it would be better, but it's already very nice.
> 
> My only big complaint (not related to you) : SoundCloud is ruining the sound and creating horrible artifacts on high end. This is the trademark of SoundCloud and it's really damaging a lot of the wonderful creations made by members of VI-C.
> ...



Yes, SC can really destroy a lot of the detail and overall sound in a track. Their compression is a mess...

Oh, and it took about 2 hours or so!


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## BenG (Jul 20, 2018)

Svyato said:


> About the choir problem : It might depends on your vision and your aims; even if it not physically possible to sing like this, do you personnaly like it? It's V.I. so you can have fun with it, I like the idea of new possibilities by doing impossible things with V.I. . But if the piece has to be really performed, then you really have to care about the physical problem of performing your composition.



Interesting point. Coming from a classical background, I never really though about that if it's not performed, does it matter if it sounds 'real'. 

That said, everything I have done up to this point (including setting up my template) was to be set-up as if it was going to be played live. Would need to think about this...


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## markleake (Jul 20, 2018)

@BenG. Just wondering if you were able to rework the choirs a bit? I'd be keen to hear the track again with them improved.


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## BenG (Jul 21, 2018)

Not yet, been out of town but should have he new version posted by tomorrow!


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## BenG (Jul 22, 2018)

markleake said:


> @BenG. Just wondering if you were able to rework the choirs a bit? I'd be keen to hear the track again with them improved.



Updated with reworked choirs/ending!


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