# Piano Library



## BenG (Dec 7, 2017)

Does anyone have any recommendations for a good all around piano for production music? (Epic, Underscore, etc.)

Ideally, I'd love something with a cinematic tone without being too over the top. Currently looking at;

- The Giant
- The Grandeur
- Hans Zimmer Piano
- Cinematic Studio Piano
- Malmsjo Piano
- Keyscape
- Rosewood Grand

Other suggestions welcomed!


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## SoundChris (Dec 7, 2017)

Just to take into consideration:
EWQL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGsiLJYGZww (Pianos Platinum)
8Dio - Steinway 1928 Legacy


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## BenG (Dec 7, 2017)

SoundChris said:


> Just to take into consideration:
> EWQL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGsiLJYGZww (Pianos Platinum)
> 8Dio - Steinway 1928 Legacy



Thanks for these! 

I have tried the EW Pianos and while good, they aren't exactly what I'm looking for.

On the other hand, I completely forgot about the Steinway 1928 and it is definitely an option!


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## dtcomposer (Dec 7, 2017)

I haven't tried it, but I think the Bechstein Piano looks like a good option with a lot of flexibility. I'm considering it at some point in the near future. (https://www.bechstein-digital.com/)


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## axb312 (Dec 7, 2017)

ImpactSoundWorks Pearl Concert Grand. Try it.


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## Hunter123 (Dec 7, 2017)

Definitely try the Keyscape C7 Grand Piano! My favorite piano so far


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## BenG (Dec 7, 2017)

Hunter123 said:


> Definitely try the Keyscape C7 Grand Piano! My favorite piano so far



Your definitely not the first person to say this about the Keyscape Yamaha!

Also, I should mention that I am looking for an 'out-of-the-box' cinematic sound. A library that won't require a ton of tweaking/has 'presets'


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## Hunter123 (Dec 7, 2017)

BenG said:


> Your definitely not the first person to say this about the Keyscape Yamaha!
> 
> Also, I should mention that I am looking for an 'out-of-the-box' cinematic sound. A library that won't require a ton of tweaking/has 'presets'


Keyscape is great for that actually. The C7 has about 20 presets including a cinematic and a dark score which you might like.


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## AdamAlake (Dec 7, 2017)

BenG said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for a good all around piano for production music? (Epic, Underscore, etc.)
> 
> Ideally, I'd love something with a cinematic tone without being too over the top. Currently looking at;
> 
> ...



For cinematic tones, The Giant is incredible, as well as sitting well in hybrid mixes.


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## keepitsimple (Dec 7, 2017)

BenG said:


> Also, I should mention that I am looking for an 'out-of-the-box' cinematic sound. A library that won't require a ton of tweaking/has 'presets'


Keyscape piano really shines in that area. It actually has a gorgeous "cinematic" preset to boot. I'm usually not much of a fan of soft "felt" piano tones swimming in seas of reverb hence i play dynamic more aggressive jazz-ish stuff, but that cinematic preset in Keyscape made me a convert. It's beautiful.


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## BenG (Dec 7, 2017)

So, it really seems to come down to The Giant and Keyscape


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## ftech (Dec 7, 2017)

I quite like Cinesamples Piano in Blue
https://cinesamples.com/product/piano-in-blue
I'm also looking at the current VSTbuzz offer on the VI Labs pianos
http://vstbuzz.com/deals/74-off-true-keys-pianos-vi-labs/
Maybe not 'cinematic' enough for what you're looking for, but they do sound good in the demos I've heard.
And yes, the Giant and the Grandeur are both great too.


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## Fleer (Dec 7, 2017)

Good choices. Bechstein Digital Grand, OrangeTreeSamples Rosewood, Impactsoundworks Pearl Grand and, last but definitely not least, Wavesfactory Mercury Grand.


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## BenG (Dec 8, 2017)

Does the Orange Tree Rosewood capture that large, 'cinematic' sound, or is it more of a traditional library?


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## lumcas (Dec 8, 2017)

Garritan CFX Newman beauty preset with just a touch of an eq


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## Batrawi (Dec 8, 2017)

If you're after a warm/thick sound at the mid-low register, then I think any Steinway D would serve better than a C7.... the rest is really all about how you apply reverb, EQ, etc.. to give the depth you want. 
IMHO It's not really a question of "which library" but rather "which piano model" and how to apply fx..

Regardless of all that, of course there are some great libraries that can just give this sound right out of the box... my point though is that you don't need to stick to a specific one of those to get that sound..just my two cents


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## synthpunk (Dec 8, 2017)

CONGRATULATIONS!! You just have started the 1000th piano thread at VI-C. For your prize you now have to use the Kontakt Factory pianos for 1 week. 

ps Try the Spitfire Labs Soft Piano for a $3 donation to charity. My other favorite is NI Una Corda and when I want warmth and fullness Ivory. If you want a brighter Yamaha style look at CSP and Keyscape.



BenG said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for a good all around piano for production music? (Epic, Underscore, etc.)
> 
> Ideally, I'd love something with a cinematic tone without being too over the top. Currently looking at;
> 
> ...


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## gjelul (Dec 8, 2017)

VI LABS True Pianos


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## Fleer (Dec 8, 2017)

BenG said:


> Does the Orange Tree Rosewood capture that large, 'cinematic' sound, or is it more of a traditional library?


More traditional in my book.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 8, 2017)

What do you mean by an "epic cinematic sound". A piano is a piano, and nearly every modern library should have a decent VI. Ultimately, it will come down to how you place it in the mix, and your reverb, eq, etc.


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## Fleer (Dec 8, 2017)

Would go for character. And then Rosewood Grand, Piano-in-Blue, Pearl Grand and Mercury Grand come to mind.


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## Hunter123 (Dec 8, 2017)

Some Keyscape C7 Grand:


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## BenG (Dec 8, 2017)

Hunter123 said:


> Some Keyscape C7 Grand:




Libraries aside, that is beautiful. Thanks for the input, everyone!


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## BenG (Dec 8, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> What do you mean by an "epic cinematic sound". A piano is a piano, and nearly every modern library should have a decent VI. Ultimately, it will come down to how you place it in the mix, and your reverb, eq, etc.



Definitely agree! In this instance, I was looking for something mote 'plug-and-play' so to speak. Either geat sounding out of the box or with some available presets.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 9, 2017)

This may sound strange, but I found that adding PSP's Piano Verb (there is a basic free version but the paid is a little better) made any piano I use sound so much better. Imperfect Samples also makes some great sounding pianos. I have the Walnut Steinway Concert Grand. Adding the PSP Piano Verb (which adds a string vibration FX) makes it really sounds big to me. Of course, my system is not a great one so YMMV.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Dec 9, 2017)

another tip: use valhalla shimmer on any vi piano and you get quite a good cinematic sound. Use basic preset and off you go....


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 9, 2017)

You might like Session Keys by E Instruments, which I call "piano that can do tricks". Lots of presets, from concert hall to reverse, sound effects (lots of pedal noises) etc. It also has built-in phrases i.e. hit one key and sound like Van Cliburn. It's a very clever program.


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## JohnG (Dec 9, 2017)

Has anyone purchased the bundle of VI labs and received it? I find it suspicious that on VI labs' own site the discount is more like 30%, not the 74% being offered by VSTBuzz http://vstbuzz.com/deals/74-off-true-keys-pianos-vi-labs/

I don't own but have been hankering for the American True Keys piano for ages (VI Labs).


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## SGordB (Dec 9, 2017)

JohnG said:


> Has anyone purchased the bundle of VI labs and received it? I find it suspicious that on VI labs' own site the discount is more like 30%, not the 74% being offered by VSTBuzz http://vstbuzz.com/deals/74-off-true-keys-pianos-vi-labs/
> 
> I don't own but have been hankering for the American True Keys piano for ages (VI Labs).



I bought it last week and registered it with VI Labs. The deal is real. Just don't try to register it using your iLok password instead of your user ID as I impatiently did. Took over a day to straighten that out.


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## SGordB (Dec 9, 2017)

BenG said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for a good all around piano for production music? (Epic, Underscore, etc.)
> 
> Ideally, I'd love something with a cinematic tone without being too over the top. Currently looking at;
> 
> ...



A few months ago, I finally upgraded from Kontakt 4 - not to 5 but to Komplete for just $200 (NI's occasional 50% off special). That bundle included most of their pianos - Giant, Grandeur, Gentleman, Maverick, Una Corda - and every one of them has a straight-up unaffected solo piano side and an ample, effected, "scoring piano" side. Certainly a great bang-for-the-buck solution if you can wait until their next blowout, probably come Boxing week.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 9, 2017)

I bought the True Keys the last time they were on one of these sales - I think it was Audioplugin deals. And I have bought from VSTBuzz before as well. The product you buy is the full product, it is just a limited time sale. It is actually a great set of pianos. I think the only thing I don't like about it is that it uses one of the players that I don't regularly use - I think it is UVI's. So I tend to forget that I have them.


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## chasmanian (Dec 9, 2017)

dzilizzi said:


> I bought the True Keys the last time they were on one of these sales - I think it was Audioplugin deals. And I have bought from VSTBuzz before as well. The product you buy is the full product, it is just a limited time sale. It is actually a great set of pianos. I think the only thing I don't like about it is that it uses one of the players that I don't regularly use - I think it is UVI's. So I tend to forget that I have them.



I keep thinking about getting this. would you possibly please say more about what you like about them?
(I have Ravenscroft and it does play in UVI.)


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## Quasar (Dec 9, 2017)

I still have no earthly idea what a "cinematic" tone is. I do watch films and (like probably most everyone here) listen more intently to the music than the average person, and I hear lots of tones.

I have and like Galaxy Vintage D for its authentic concert grand piano sound and for its extensive tweakability; both Una Corda and Spitfire's free Felt pianos for ethereally soft and otherworldly nuances; and Pianoteq (Stage) for the superior tactile sensitivity afforded by the physical modelling. IMHO this much more than amply covers anything you might ask a virtual piano to do.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 9, 2017)

Truthfully, I am probably not the one to ask. They all sound good to me. And I usually end up with my studio grand from Addictive Keys because it works well in a mix, sounds decent, is easy to use and doesn't eat my RAM. 

Out of the True Keys, I thought I would like the Fazioli the best, but I actually like the sound of the Bechstein best. It sounds like there is a real piano in the room to me. And it seemed warmer? I don't know. I just know what I like. Especially when I add some reverb. They have multiple mic positions which I usually mix and it works well with other instruments. I don't really play, so I can't speak to the pedal action. 

I usually grab midi from EZKeys for my piano parts or the Chord track from Cubase. They all sound good. I actually did a "shoot out" of my pianos and they all had good points. I have NI Ultimate, so I have a bunch of those pianos. And that was when I discovered that the PSP piano verb improved the sound of pretty much any piano.


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## chasmanian (Dec 9, 2017)

thank you for your excellent thoughtful reply.


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## BenG (Dec 9, 2017)

For what it is worth, 'cinematic' was probably not the best descriptor. More specifically, I was looking for library that had a piano sound that featured a;

1. Very Full Mid/Low End
2. Wide Stereo Field
3. Long Reverb Tail
4. Cuts Through Mix 

At this point, I think that NI's Komplete as @SGordB mentioned would be my best bet as it has a bunch of options in a 'all-in-one' package.


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## marclawsonmusic (Dec 9, 2017)

You can get this 'cinematic' sound with almost any piano library by adding EQ and reverb / delay.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 10, 2017)

If you are only looking at pianos? You would be better off grabbing the True Keys sale if it is still on. Komplete is great. And you are getting a lot more than pianos. But you really have to go for the Ultimate for the full piano array. And I don't think it is on sale right now. So close to $1K. I would grab True Keys and wait for the sale next June. It is usually half off.


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## tiago (Dec 10, 2017)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Soundiron's Emotional Piano yet on this thread... While not my very first personal favorite, it seems to match the description of the kind of piano you're looking for quite well. While a bit old in comparison to some of the pianos mentioned previously, its cinematic tone still holds something special (Malmsjo is even older and it's still the favorite of many composers...) and it's, in my opinion, definitely worth considering it as well.


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## axb312 (Dec 10, 2017)

Impact Soundworks Pearl Concert Grand. For some reason - it's not been mentioned much here. Give it a listen....


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## SGordB (Dec 10, 2017)

dzilizzi said:


> If you are only looking at pianos? You would be better off grabbing the True Keys sale if it is still on. Komplete is great. And you are getting a lot more than pianos. But you really have to go for the Ultimate for the full piano array. And I don't think it is on sale right now. So close to $1K. I would grab True Keys and wait for the sale next June. It is usually half off.



The True Keys offer is a great deal, although its pianos (in my view) are almost the opposite of cinematic: they're super clean and detailed - I think of them as "reference grand pianos." There are no built-in presets beyond basically light and full versions. Definitely one can turn them into colourful cinematic/epic/scoring pianos with tweaking, but the advantage of the basic Ultimate package (not the cheap, "select" one) is that it includes all the Kontakt acoustic pianos except Alicia's Keys (I don't believe there are any other exceptions), and those 5 pianos are loaded with characterful presets right out of the box and great tweakability that way. They're much more of a palette for piano textures while True Keys is substantially better as an unvarnished solo/studio/concert piano VI - again, very much IMHO. So that Komplete package is expensive now, but will hopefully be as cheap as $200 again as an upgrade by the time the next wave of seasonal discounts washes in.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 10, 2017)

I agree that Komplete is great. But if he wants pianos now, I wouldn't spend the money on Komplete. If the OP can wait, I would definitely go for Komplete. However, at $92 for three good pianos that a little reverb will make great, how can you go wrong?


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## BenG (Dec 10, 2017)

tiago said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned Soundiron's Emotional Piano yet on this thread... While not my very first personal favorite, it seems to match the description of the kind of piano you're looking for quite well. While a bit old in comparison to some of the pianos mentioned previously, its cinematic tone still holds something special (Malmsjo is even older and it's still the favorite of many composers...) and it's, in my opinion, definitely worth considering it as well.



Ah, completely forgot about this and feel it may be perfect. The SI Emotional Piano is defitinley along the lines of what I'm looking at.

As for Komplete, I would be able to wait for a sale as there is no pressing need for the library at the moment. I believe they often have 50% discounts which would be quite affordable!


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## SGordB (Dec 10, 2017)

dzilizzi said:


> I agree that Komplete is great. But if he wants pianos now, I wouldn't spend the money on Komplete. If the OP can wait, I would definitely go for Komplete. However, at $92 for three good pianos that a little reverb will make great, how can you go wrong?


Clearly the solution is to buy both - and not stop buying until you've bought all the piano VIs your heart desires. that's my policy.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 10, 2017)

SGordB said:


> Clearly the solution is to buy both - and not stop buying until you've bought all the piano VIs your heart desires. that's my policy.


LOL! This is what I have been doing....every time I see one on sale. I have way too many pianos.... :D


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## SGordB (Dec 10, 2017)

dzilizzi said:


> LOL! This is what I have been doing....every time I see one on sale. I have way too many pianos.... :D



I now have all of Pianoteq 6's variations on the Steinway D, The Grandeur and True Keys American Grand. But if they add half-pedal functionality to Piano in Blue, my roving ear will find it hard to resist. Similarly, Garritan's CFX Lite serves up a very satisfying Yamaha grand experience. But I still lust after others. A very expensive addiction.


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## creativeforge (Dec 10, 2017)

Quasar said:


> I still have no earthly idea what a "cinematic" tone is. I do watch films and (like probably most everyone here) listen more intently to the music than the average person, and I hear lots of tones.
> 
> I have and like Galaxy Vintage D for its authentic concert grand piano sound and for its extensive tweakability; both Una Corda and Spitfire's free Felt pianos for ethereally soft and otherworldly nuances; and Pianoteq (Stage) for the superior tactile sensitivity afforded by the physical modelling. IMHO this much more than amply covers anything you might ask a virtual piano to do.



I love this piano...



*Suggested similitude by @lux *: http://new.dreamaudiotools.com/product/dream-keys-complete-piano-samples/

QUOTE: "Our goal has been to provide composers with a plug-n-play solution to get that typical ambienced/cinematic piano sound heard on movies and TV, plus a variety of creatively crafted patches great for styles like soundtrack, electronica, hip hop and a lot more. The piano sets have been processed using a specific effects chain in order to obtain a great ambient/soundtrack sonic flavour."

Very affordable too. I just got the TrueKeys and really like it, but as someone suggested it is a very clean piano, will need processing to extend its emotional range. FluffyPiano is fascinatingly organic, although maybe a few quirks put some limits for me. 

Haven't found the Holy Grail yet!


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## robgb (Dec 10, 2017)

You can pick up the Arturia Piano V 2 for $99 right now. The CPU usage is almost nonexistent and it sounds pretty amazing. You get a number of pianos from uprights to grands to experimental glass pianos. Someone called it the poor man's Pianoteq. I'd say it's certainly on par with theirs.


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## Fleer (Dec 10, 2017)

tiago said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned Soundiron's Emotional Piano yet on this thread... While not my very first personal favorite, it seems to match the description of the kind of piano you're looking for quite well. While a bit old in comparison to some of the pianos mentioned previously, its cinematic tone still holds something special (Malmsjo is even older and it's still the favorite of many composers...) and it's, in my opinion, definitely worth considering it as well.


You're absolutely right. I believe it's a Kawai BTW.


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## BenG (Dec 10, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> I love this piano...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you for pointing this out!

I wasn't aware of their offerings and it seems like another great option. Their approach of having 'plug-and-play' pianos with an ambient/cinematic tone is perfect and it's definitely affordable.

Now, if only I can find a piano library that comes with a mini Thomas Newman built in...


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## SGordB (Dec 10, 2017)

robgb said:


> You can pick up the Arturia Piano V 2 for $99 right now. The CPU usage is almost nonexistent and it sounds pretty amazing. You get a number of pianos from uprights to grands to experimental glass pianos. Someone called it the poor man's Pianoteq. I'd say it's certainly on par with theirs.



Wow. I just downloaded the demo, and it's an instant hit with me. I have Pianoteq 6.


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## constaneum (Dec 10, 2017)

I can't highly recommend enough on the Galaxy Piano's Vintage D. I've just recently bought The Grandeur. It's nice but it's a bit too clean sounding or what some called it as "Vanilla" sounding which is still useful. On the other hand, i still love the Vintage D a lot. It has the right sound and it's pretty good to be used as a standout sounding piano. It's the library which i've never regret buying and will continue to use it a lot in my scores.


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## keepitsimple (Dec 10, 2017)

One that i forgot to mention (blasphemy!) is Piano in 162. It's a gorgeous Steinway B and it's *free*.

Take a listen at the demos here, particularly the track "Universe of Mind": http://ivyaudio.com/Piano-in-162


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## CGR (Dec 10, 2017)

BenG said:


> Definitely agree! In this instance, I was looking for something mote 'plug-and-play' so to speak. Either geat sounding out of the box or with some available presets.


Not something I'd normally recommend, but for 15 Euro you could try Cinematique Instruments' Grand 3P:
http://www.cinematique-instruments.com/inst_grand3p.php
Has a range of presets including some heavily processed ambient sounding pianos, which may be useful.


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## Ellest (Dec 10, 2017)

constaneum said:


> Galaxy Piano's Vintage D



Their Steinway is pretty good too.


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## sazema (Dec 11, 2017)

As @synthpunk noticed, it is true... piano thread  We should provide bonus coupons on each 1000 tread about piano and best string library 
And then each Kontakt or non-Kontakt library is listed...

If you want all rounded piano library you should check:

Native Instruments - Grandeur (about 4.5 Gb)
Native Instruments - Gentleman (around 3.7 Gb)
or

Pianoteq 5/6 (don't know what is latest version)
+ Valhalla shimmer

And that's all. Each library is small in space and no philosophy, you will get quality controls over piano where you can oblique your sound as you wish.

Why would you check something like Keyscape - C7, do you want 80Gb extra space on your hard drive or not.
Why would you check some other Kontakt library of size 20Gb or more... HZ piano 200Gb !???

That "cinematic" tone is always passed through amount of fx (reverbs, delays) and you can use any piano for that purpose, it's really just important that your piano is velocity responsive and that's all.


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## re-peat (Dec 11, 2017)

sazema said:


> and you can use any piano for that purpose



Maybe, but some take to a cinematic environment more fluently and convincingly than others and it’s got nothing to do with EQ, reverb or delay, it’s the naked timbre of these instruments that makes all the important difference.

Some time ago, I did a comparison of ‘virtual pianos in a cinematic guise', and below are a few of the resulting examples. (The complete piece, "Rikke", a blatantly Newman-esque demo for Pianoteq’s ModelD, can be heard *https://www.pianoteq.com/audio//modeld/Piet%20De%20Ridder%20-%20Rikke%20-%20Model%20D.mp3 (here)*.)

1. *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_CinematicStudio.mp3 (Cinematic Studio Piano)*
2. *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Emotional.mp3 (Emotional Piano)*
3. *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Galaxy.mp3 (Galaxy VintageD)*
4. *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_OTRosewood.mp3 (OT Rosewood)*
5. *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Ravenscroft.mp3 (Ravenscroft)*
6. *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Fluffy.mp3 (Fluffy Scoring Piano)*
7. *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_PianoInBlue.mp3 (Piano In Blue)*

Say what you want, but certain of these instruments succeed much better than others, to my ears anyway, and that difference is entirely determined by what these virtual pianos have to offer all by themselves, rather than by how they were processed.

_


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## MichaelM (Dec 11, 2017)

Ellest said:


> Their Steinway is pretty good too.


I had done a comparison of the Galaxy Vintage D to the Galaxy Steinway in D playing some Rachmaninoff some years back. These days I turn to the Vintage D, but I recommend both!


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## creativeforge (Dec 11, 2017)

CGR said:


> Not something I'd normally recommend, but for 15 Euro you could try Cinematique Instruments' Grand 3P:
> http://www.cinematique-instruments.com/inst_grand3p.php
> Has a range of presets including some heavily processed ambient sounding pianos, which may be useful.



The demo tune CENK IS ALONE features the piano well...


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## creativeforge (Dec 11, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Maybe, but some take to a cinematic environment more fluently and convincingly than others and it’s got nothing to do with EQ, reverb or delay, it’s the naked timbre of these instruments that makes all the important difference.
> 
> Some time ago, I did a comparison of ‘virtual pianos in a cinematic guise', and below are a few of the resulting examples. (The complete piece, "Rikke", a blatantly Newman-esque demo for Pianoteq’s ModelD, can be heard *https://www.pianoteq.com/audio//modeld/Piet%20De%20Ridder%20-%20Rikke%20-%20Model%20D.mp3 (here)*.)
> 
> ...



Very helpful, thanks for sharing. I can't help but go back to the Cinematic Studio Piano demo, I find it more intimate, clean and least "noisy" for some reason. Indeed "cinematic." Are all the demos using the same treatment with regard to effects, or using their own effects?


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## BenG (Dec 11, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Maybe, but some take to a cinematic environment more fluently and convincingly than others and it’s got nothing to do with EQ, reverb or delay, it’s the naked timbre of these instruments that makes all the important difference.
> 
> Some time ago, I did a comparison of ‘virtual pianos in a cinematic guise', and below are a few of the resulting examples. (The complete piece, "Rikke", a blatantly Newman-esque demo for Pianoteq’s ModelD, can be heard *https://www.pianoteq.com/audio//modeld/Piet%20De%20Ridder%20-%20Rikke%20-%20Model%20D.mp3 (here)*.)
> 
> ...


THis is great, @re-peat! It really shows which pianos do well in this very specific context.


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## rottoy (Dec 11, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Maybe, but some take to a cinematic environment more fluently and convincingly than others and it’s got nothing to do with EQ, reverb or delay, it’s the naked timbre of these instruments that makes all the important difference.
> 
> Some time ago, I did a comparison of ‘virtual pianos in a cinematic guise', and below are a few of the resulting examples. (The complete piece, "Rikke", a blatantly Newman-esque demo for Pianoteq’s ModelD, can be heard *https://www.pianoteq.com/audio//modeld/Piet%20De%20Ridder%20-%20Rikke%20-%20Model%20D.mp3 (here)*.)
> 
> ...


Lovely comparison! I find the Fluffy Scoring Piano to have the most pleasing tone for this piece.
Definitely the best mid-range out of all those pianos.


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## ColonelMarquand (Dec 11, 2017)

BenG said:


> Other suggestions welcomed!



Most, if not all, computer based pianos are a load of crap. But if you're looking for an underscore sound then get Keyscape because with Keyscape you're getting a lot of value for money with a large array of piano type sounds.
Most of the piano things you hear on the Internet are about sound. Not really so much about actual what you would at least call competent piano playing, although that happens. If I was say, going to do a solo style piano track today, I wouldn't go anywhere near a software piano for numerous reasons.
But if it's more about sound mixed in with other sounds, then go for Keyscape.


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## N.Caffrey (Dec 11, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Maybe, but some take to a cinematic environment more fluently and convincingly than others and it’s got nothing to do with EQ, reverb or delay, it’s the naked timbre of these instruments that makes all the important difference.
> 
> Some time ago, I did a comparison of ‘virtual pianos in a cinematic guise', and below are a few of the resulting examples. (The complete piece, "Rikke", a blatantly Newman-esque demo for Pianoteq’s ModelD, can be heard *https://www.pianoteq.com/audio//modeld/Piet%20De%20Ridder%20-%20Rikke%20-%20Model%20D.mp3 (here)*.)
> 
> ...


Thank you, very interesting. I think in this context my favourites are Emotional Piano and Ravenscroft


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## robgb (Dec 11, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> Most, if not all, computer based pianos are a load of crap.


Most, if not all computer based instruments are a load of crap when compared to the real thing. The real thing will triumph every single time. But that's not really the point is it?


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 11, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> Most, if not all, computer based pianos are a load of crap. But if you're looking for an underscore sound then get Keyscape because with Keyscape you're getting a lot of value for money with a large array of piano type sounds.
> Most of the piano things you hear on the Internet are about sound. Not really so much about actual what you would at least call competent piano playing, although that happens. If I was say, going to do a solo style piano track today, I wouldn't go anywhere near a software piano for numerous reasons.




I'm assuming that could be said about all acoustic instruments. I'm a pro violinist. Since it's gig season, I've been playing lots of shows of course. Coming back to my sample libraries is like turning on a radio made in 1940 that barely works. It's not only the sounds, it's the smells.  That's not even a bad thing, some of the women smelled quite lovely in cramped quarters. 
Regardless... the Cinematic Studio Piano demo sounds great. It would be something I'd want to hear as a listener, piano-y or not.


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## thereus (Dec 11, 2017)

On the 


robgb said:


> Most, if not all computer based instruments are a load of crap when compared to the real thing. The real thing will triumph every single time. But that's not really the point is it?



Pianos are the only instruments for which good VI emulations exist. Lots of variables, but only a small fraction of those involved in a woodwind note for instance.


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## sazema (Dec 11, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Maybe, but some take to a cinematic environment more fluently and convincingly than others and it’s got nothing to do with EQ, reverb or delay, it’s the naked timbre of these instruments that makes all the important difference.
> 
> Some time ago, I did a comparison of ‘virtual pianos in a cinematic guise', and below are a few of the resulting examples. (The complete piece, "Rikke", a blatantly Newman-esque demo for Pianoteq’s ModelD, can be heard *https://www.pianoteq.com/audio//modeld/Piet%20De%20Ridder%20-%20Rikke%20-%20Model%20D.mp3 (here)*.)
> 
> ...



Well, I understand you very well, but original poster posted this "good all around piano for production music".
Each piano from you list has unique sound and different overall ambient etc etc, and then if you need piano for each certain song then you will finish with buying 15 piano libraries instead one workhorse piano library - simple, playable, good sounding too.
I rather choose 1 unique and then I can include that piano in every song, if I need "good all round piano" oblique with some eq, fx.
Again, I have Grandour/Gentleman and you can really achieve any sound with it. It can sound intimate, it can sound live like you playing in your room etc.


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## VinRice (Dec 11, 2017)

Production Voices C7 - outstanding
Hans Zimmer Piano - very good Steinway in Air Studio, but some niggles and over-priced
Soniccouture Hammersmith Pro - very good but maybe lacking character

To me these three have the attack and depth of real pianos. ALL the others I have tried (which is lot) feel lacking in some respect.


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## SGordB (Dec 11, 2017)

MichaelM said:


> I had done a comparison of the Galaxy Vintage D to the Galaxy Steinway in D playing some Rachmaninoff some years back. These days I turn to the Vintage D, but I recommend both!




Really interesting contrast. From your demo, at least, the Vintage D has an outstanding fortissimo bottom, but the (other) Steinway in D has a breathtaking pianissimo. Listening to all of the demos (as I have for a couple years now), I've always had a hard time favouring one over the other, but I've tilted toward a greater perceived warmth and character in the Vintage D.


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## VinRice (Dec 11, 2017)

If anybody wants to point me at a decent MIDI file piano piece I'll be happy to put up some demos of the above pianos. (No I am NOT going to inflict my piano 'skills' on the world)


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## sazema (Dec 11, 2017)

VinRice said:


> If anybody wants to point me at a decent MIDI file piano piece I'll be happy to put up some demos of the above pianos. (No I am NOT going to inflict my piano 'skills' on the world)



Chopin - Fantasie Impromptu, most colored and covered piece for piano if you ask me


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## VinRice (Dec 11, 2017)

sazema said:


> Chopin - Fantasie Impromptu, most colored and covered piece for piano if you ask me



and... where would I find that?


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## chrisphan (Dec 11, 2017)

keepitsimple said:


> One that i forgot to mention (blasphemy!) is Piano in 162. It's a gorgeous Steinway B and it's *free*.
> 
> Take a listen at the demos here, particularly the track "Universe of Mind": http://ivyaudio.com/Piano-in-162


Thanks for the suggestion. It has a lovely sound and a really interesting imperfection to it.


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## MichaelM (Dec 11, 2017)

SGordB said:


> Really interesting contrast. From your demo, at least, the Vintage D has an outstanding fortissimo bottom, but the (other) Steinway in D has a breathtaking pianissimo. Listening to all of the demos (as I have for a couple years now), I've always had a hard time favouring one over the other, but I've tilted toward a greater perceived warmth and character in the Vintage D.


Yeah, I agree. Totally different tones. I think I commented to someone who asked which I thought was better, and at the time I mentioned the Vintage D. But if I step away from the Vintage D for a while, I can get quite used to the Steinway. 
Curious what you guys think of the Sampletekk Black Grand? It has a distinct sound and playability that I enjoyed. Very different from the Galaxy pianos. I don't think they got as much press about their pianos as some of the other Sample companies. This was my demo of the Black Grand.


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## re-peat (Dec 11, 2017)

thereus said:


> Pianos are the only instruments for which good VI emulations exist.




I can’t agree with that, I’m afraid, *Thereus*. If you had said ‘claves’, I’d have nodded affirmatively, but as for virtual pianos, I’m inclined to agree with the Colonel — though *only* on this particular subject — even if ‘load of crap’ is perhaps too strong a threesome of words to describe the imperfect state of today’s virtual solutions.

In my opinion, the best piano emulation, be it sampled or modelled, is today — December of _het jaar des heren_ 2017 — somewhere at about 15% on the road towards being more or less convincing and satisfying. To listen to and to play, that is. So, still a loooong way (and many technical innovations and revolutions) to go, I believe.

That being said, 15% seems plenty — even enough — for many applications and situations. But it's painfully inadequate if the suggestion of the true sound, timbral complexity, depth, dynamics, majesty, presence, adaptibility, radiance, endless versatility and sheer musicality of a good real piano needs to be summoned.

Play the real thing for a good while, if you have the chance, and in piano-sympathetic surroundings if possible, and I think you’ll agree: still a loooong way to go.

- - -

*André*, in answer to your question: all of them have pretty much the same treatment, being sent through the same channel strip that had various plug-ins inserted.

_


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## CGR (Dec 11, 2017)

MichaelM said:


> Yeah, I agree. Totally different tones. I think I commented to someone who asked which I thought was better, and at the time I mentioned the Vintage D. But if I step away from the Vintage D for a while, I can get quite used to the Steinway.
> Curious what you guys think of the Sampletekk Black Grand? It has a distinct sound and playability that I enjoyed. Very different from the Galaxy pianos. I don't think they got as much press about their pianos as some of the other Sample companies. This was my demo of the Black Grand.



Nice work with Sampletekk's Black Grand Michael! It has a clarity on the attack, brightness and open tone I really enjoy. Sampled in a Stockholm Concert Hall if I remember correctly. Per from Sampletekk really knows what he's doing with sampled pianos (as evidenced by the work he does for 3rd party companies like Nord).


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## creativeforge (Dec 11, 2017)

re-peat said:


> *André*, in answer to your question: all of them have pretty much the same treatment, being sent through the same channel strip that had various plug-ins inserted.
> _



Thank you Piet, I would be interested if you care to share the chain, galaxy, cluster of plugin-ins you used? Still leaning toward the CINEMATIC STUDIO PIANO... Addictive tracks/sound. Did you use the same MIDI track for all the demos?


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## re-peat (Dec 12, 2017)

I would gladly share all the processing details if I could, André, but I can’t at the moment, because the house here is being thoroughly renovated and I am without my studio. (Have been for the past few months with, so I'm told, about one more month to go.) All my music stuff (incl. iLoks, etc….) is packed in boxes, and while I can fire up Logic, I can’t check the settings of any track that uses dongle-reliant plugins. Sorry.

As for the MIDI: I will always adjust the midi data depending on the library. In other words: the midi data for, say, the EmotionalPiano version is *very* different from the data that triggered, for example, the VintageD.

Regarding the Cinematic Studio Piano, here’s what I wrote about it a little over a year ago in the Keyscape-thread:

_"The CSP Yamaha is certainly not bad — continuing along the ‘just my opinion’-line here — but calling it great is not something I’m ready to do either. It’s a library that does quite well what I think it was sampled to do — sit all sweet and Siren-like on a bed of (orchestral) textures — but in a solo piece (or any part that asks a bit more from a piano than straight chords and/or melody lines), its limitations will be as noticeable as its strengths.

In complete contrast to Keyscape’s C7 where the note releases only appear when specifically instructed to do so, the CSP’s note releases are quite pronounced (troublesomely so, I find), and being a locked library with hardly any controls on its interface, there’s nothing to be done about that. Nor about most anything else that you might want to adjust.

I don’t regret the purchase (it hardly cost a thing at the time of CSS’s introduction), but it’s not a library I would ever consider seriously when looking for a virtual C7."_

_


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## creativeforge (Dec 12, 2017)

Thank you Piet, very helpful review (and great writing). So I got drawn by the siren song of the CSP... 

I will continue exploring the whole treatment of virtual pianos via effects, it feels like a better direction to go right now than looking for a "better" sample. I own TrueKeys, Ivory II, Quantum Leap, Scoring Piano (Fluffy) and Spitfire's Felt piano. 

All the best with the renovations, and thank you for taking time to respond to my questions. Much appreciated!


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## ColonelMarquand (Dec 12, 2017)

robgb said:


> Most, if not all computer based instruments are a load of crap when compared to the real thing. The real thing will triumph every single time. But that's not really the point is it?



That is not correct. It is very much dependent on what is written and whether or not it could even _actually be played by a live ensemble _and sound any good. Many times there are examples of even string arrangements that have something that a live ensemble does not. Again, it's dependent on the writing style and what it's for. 

Certain instruments suffer when exposed and very much to the fore is the piano. It's a really difficult thing to get right compared to a good, real piano. Even a good cheap one. If it's for piano sounds that are buried or in the background, then it probably doesn't matter, but the second it's solo, it's generally crap. Same with the oboe, and solo stringed instruments and so on and etc.
You also have to remember that most of the people that populate these music forums use a midi keyboard and are crap keyboard players. They would sound even more crap on a real piano and that's another issue unto itself.


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## robgb (Dec 12, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> That is not correct.


No, actually it is.


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## ColonelMarquand (Dec 12, 2017)

robgb said:


> No, actually it is.



Then I'm obviously mistaken and you're an awesome keyboard player. Please accept my humble apologies.


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## sazema (Dec 12, 2017)

robgb said:


> No, actually it is.


There is no library that can replace real instrument and human interpretation PERIOD


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## robgb (Dec 12, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> Then I'm obviously mistaken and you're an awesome keyboard player. Please accept my humble apologies.


You're forgiven.


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## Robert Jason (Dec 14, 2017)

Basically, nearly ALL good piano samples...Ivory (love the American), Ravenscroft 275, Orange Tree, can, with some good software/reverbs, imaging software, etc be anything you want it to be...
Many offer the ability to soften the attack, as does Ivory. I always feel starting with a very good saounding instrument is always a good way to go. Just my .02


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## robgb (Dec 14, 2017)

SGordB said:


> Clearly the solution is to buy both - and not stop buying until you've bought all the piano VIs your heart desires. that's my policy.


Yeah, I have well over a dozen at this point.


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## robgb (Dec 14, 2017)

MichaelM said:


> Curious what you guys think of the Sampletekk Black Grand?


Own it, love it. Great demo.


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## Fleer (Dec 14, 2017)

robgb said:


> Own it, love it. Great demo.


Depends on which Black Grand. 
Sampletekk has three. There's the original one, the MkII and the one for Kontakt Player.


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## robgb (Dec 14, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Depends on which Black Grand.
> Sampletekk has three. There's the original one, the MkII and the one for Kontakt Player.


I have the Kontakt version.


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## MichaelM (Dec 14, 2017)

robgb said:


> Own it, love it. Great demo.


Yeah, Sampletekk pianos are great. I also really like their Yamaha 7CG Grand that they had sampled. Obviously very different from the Steinway. I forgot that I had made this comparison video of the Sampletekk 7CG and the Black Grand.


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## soniccouture (Dec 15, 2017)

Merry Christmas, and goodwill to all piano library developers.


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## NYC Composer (Dec 15, 2017)

And for the umpteenth time, Art Vista's VG-2, to me the virtual piano that sounds most like there is air moving when I strike a note. It doesn't have the dynamic range of some modern pianos, but it is a great, easily EQ-d bread and butter instrument. It's my daily go to over Ivory, Emotional, Piano in Blue, Sonivox 88, Imperfect's Braunschweig, Vintage D and the other umpteen pianos I own.


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## CGR (Dec 15, 2017)

NYC Composer said:


> And for the umpteenth time, Art Vista's VG-2, to me the virtual piano that sounds most like there is air moving when I strike a note. It doesn't have the dynamic range of some modern pianos, but it is a great, easily EQ-d bread and butter instrument. It's my daily go to over Ivory, Emotional, Piano in Blue, Sonivox 88, Imperfect's Braunschweig, Vintage D and the other umpteen pianos I own.


+1 for Art Vista Virtual Grand. It has an authenticity of tone like very few other sampled pianos, and has many well sculptured presets offering a wide range of variations to suit different settings/mixes. The Art Vista Supergrand is an interesting concept - a hybrid between their Virtual Grand (1960 Hamburg Steinway B) and their Swedish Malmsjo Grand. Have a listen to the demos and notice the resonance and dynamics.


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## Fleer (Dec 15, 2017)

MichaelM said:


> Yeah, Sampletekk pianos are great. I also really like their Yamaha 7CG Grand that they had sampled. Obviously very different from the Steinway. I forgot that I had made this comparison video of the Sampletekk 7CG and the Black Grand.



If anyone’s looking, selling three beloved Sampletekk Grands here, at 70% off:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/sampletekk-grands-70-off-three-only.67130/


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## paularthur (Dec 15, 2017)

art vista has a sale on their malmsjo piano


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## kimarnesen (Dec 15, 2017)

paularthur said:


> art vista has a sale on their malmsjo piano



Where do you find that?


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## CGR (Dec 15, 2017)

Here:



Hans Adamson said:


> We offer 50% OFF all Art Vista products until Christmas 2017 (sale ends Dec 24, 2017). All you need to do is enter the discount code: "happy" at check-out, to take 50% OFF your total.
> 
> http://mailchi.mp/67d504d0f94d/art-vista-50-off-storewide-ends-dec-442955
> 
> ...


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## kimarnesen (Dec 15, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> Most, if not all, computer based pianos are a load of crap.



Well, crap is probably a bit exaggerated, but I have not found a piano library that I would guess were a real piano yet. They all end up a bit plastic. But some are close, like Production Grand 2 and Ravenscroft. 

Yes, there are so many piano libraries out there but I hope they keep trying.


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## CGR (Dec 15, 2017)

kimarnesen said:


> Well, crap is probably a bit exaggerated, but I have not found a piano library that I would guess were a real piano yet. They all end up a bit plastic. But some are close, like Production Grand 2 and Ravenscroft.
> 
> Yes, there are so many piano libraries out there but I hope they keep trying.


I wish I had discovered the Art Vista pianos earlier, after many disappointing purchases of 'plastic' sounding sampled pianos. Art Vista pianos are very real & resonant in tone - they are my first port of call if I'm after an authentic, character filled piano sound in many tracks.


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## kimarnesen (Dec 15, 2017)

CGR said:


> I wish I had discovered the Art Vista pianos earlier, after many disappointing purchases of 'plastic' sounding sampled pianos. Art Vista pianos are very real & resonant in tone - they are my first port of call if I'm after an authentic, character filled piano sound in many tracks.



Yes, they have good pianos, but still not something that could replace a real one imo, at least not as a solo piano.


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## CGR (Dec 16, 2017)

kimarnesen said:


> Yes, they have good pianos, but still not something that could replace a real one imo, at least not as a solo piano.


Depends on the context. I believe Hans Zimmerman used the Art Vista Malmsjo extensively in film soundtracks, even when he had access to high quality acoustic pianos in top studios. Although I don't see in the near future a world-class classical pianist performing with a sampled piano (although I may be proven wrong!). I'm very grateful for the amazing choice of high quality sampled pianos available today, after owning acoustic pianos for years and spending a small fortune on tunings, regulation & restoration, not to mention the cost of moving them! Also, if you've ever tried recording an acoustic piano outside of a good studio and achieving a satisfactory result, then sampled pianos like Art Vista's become very attractive!


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## creativeforge (Dec 16, 2017)

CGR said:


> I wish I had discovered the Art Vista pianos earlier, after many disappointing purchases of 'plastic' sounding sampled pianos. Art Vista pianos are very real & resonant in tone - they are my first port of call if I'm after an authentic, character filled piano sound in many tracks.



MALMSJÖ by Art Vista - thanks for pointing @Hans Adamson's work out! Masterful realism, imho. Listening to all the demos and no ear fatigue or sense of synthetic sound, the mid-high range is also very satisfying although with a smidgen out of tune-ness. Quite organic, love the bass! I'm duly impressed...


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## ColonelMarquand (Dec 16, 2017)

kimarnesen said:


> Well, crap is probably a bit exaggerated, but I have not found a piano library that I would guess were a real piano yet. They all end up a bit plastic. But some are close, like Production Grand 2 and Ravenscroft.
> 
> Yes, there are so many piano libraries out there but I hope they keep trying.



They can keep trying, but in the end you look at the amount of virtual pianos people seem to feel they need to buy almost endlessly. That tells you what you need to know about virtual pianos. 
Studios are generally happy with one or even two real pianos and tend to leave it at that.

The problem that virtual pianos cure for most people is that it gets them a 'piano sound' onto a track. If they had to sit at a real piano and record it, they would be there forever. A 'piano' within a daw allows for a lot of editing and mouse clicking. As does most of what goes through a computer. 
I would advise people to learn to play rather than spend that time talking about sample libraries and computers.


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## CGR (Dec 16, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> I would advise people to learn to play rather than spend that time talking about sample libraries and computers.


I can play, and I'll continue to talk about piano sample libraries and computers because I'm curious and encouraged by the virtual pianos developers create which can help me realise my musical ambitions in the numerous types of music I produce.


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## creativeforge (Dec 16, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> I would advise people to learn to play rather than spend that time talking about sample libraries and computers.



I personally believe selecting tools that "resonate" with us is part of the art of music making. I love reading people's experience with and evaluation of sample libraries. That is why this forum exists, after all. 

Whether novice or blockbusters composers, it helps to discuss and compare notes. We should always want to be learning and improve, certainly. Yet, some composers are not - by their own admission - "real" pianists, but they can compose scores using a keyboard with v-i libraries. That gives me hope, although not to have a career and compete in that world (I know my limitations).


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## Ashermusic (Dec 16, 2017)

It isn't just virtual pianos, there are widespread taste differences with real pianos.

One of my favorites I played was Chick Correa's Bosendorfer at his Mad Hatter studios. When I mentioned it to Mike Lang, one of the five top studio pianists in LA, he told me he didn't like it, almost never liked _any_ Bosendorfer, was mostly a Steinway man. Go figure.


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## creativeforge (Dec 16, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> It isn't just virtual pianos, their are widespread taste differences with real pianos.
> 
> One of my favorites I played was Chick Correa's Bosendorfer at his Mad Hatter studios. When I mentioned it to Mike Lang, one of the five top studio pianists in LA, he told me he didn't like it, almost never liked _any_ Bosendorfer, was mostly a Steinway man. Go figure.



^ This! ^ Which suggests to me that we may choose an instrument or library based on its realism and precision, ratings and technical specs, but our estimations can also be a matter of sheer personal taste, the sound of the instrument and how it moves us emotionally... 

Hence the eternal comparative dilemma about "What is the *best* such and such virtual instrument library? I think if we have the opportunity, we should go and listen to the real thing *live. Demos are helpful, though. But again, limitations.

Some of the piano libraries I like best have all sorts of artifacts in the sound. And I've played on concert grands in a store from all the most known and renowned brands, yet when I hit the keys of the Bechstein... it was a revelation, I am hooked.


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## synthpunk (Dec 16, 2017)

Art Vista is on Sale this week as well, FYI.
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/art-vista-50-off-christmas-sale.67413/



creativeforge said:


> MALMSJÖ by Art Vista - thanks for pointing @Hans Adamson's work out! Masterful realism, imho. Listening to all the demos and no ear fatigue or sense of synthetic sound, the mid-high range is also very satisfying although with a smidgen out of tune-ness. Quite organic, love the bass! I'm duly impressed...


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## creativeforge (Dec 16, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Art Vista is on Sale this week as well, FYI.
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/art-vista-50-off-christmas-sale.67413/



Well, I couldn't pass on this! Downloading as I write these lines...


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## kimarnesen (Dec 16, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> It isn't just virtual pianos, there are widespread taste differences with real pianos.
> 
> One of my favorites I played was Chick Correa's Bosendorfer at his Mad Hatter studios. When I mentioned it to Mike Lang, one of the five top studio pianists in LA, he told me he didn't like it, almost never liked _any_ Bosendorfer, was mostly a Steinway man. Go figure.



For sure, if someone managed to make a library with a piano that sounds like a real one, there would also be the personal taste aspect. But at least it would sound real, like it or not.


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## wcreed51 (Dec 16, 2017)

>>widespread taste differences with real pianos

After his beloved CD318 was irreparably damaged in shipment back to Toronto, Glen Gould spent years looking for a piano to his (eccentric) liking. He drove Steinway crazy, but they couldn't give him anything he liked, nor could any of the other big names. He finally bought a Yamaha CFX, on which he did his second recording of the Goldberg Variations, the year before he died.


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## quantum7 (Dec 16, 2017)

My wife and I have a nice grand in the house, and to my ears anyway, there are some really great piano sample libraries out there that come VERY close, and in the context of a mix would be nearly impossible to tell the difference....IMO at least.


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## PaulBrimstone (Dec 16, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> It isn't just virtual pianos, there are widespread taste differences with real pianos.
> 
> One of my favorites I played was Chick Correa's Bosendorfer at his Mad Hatter studios. When I mentioned it to Mike Lang, one of the five top studio pianists in LA, he told me he didn't like it, almost never liked _any_ Bosendorfer, was mostly a Steinway man. Go figure.


Man, I would give someone else’s right arm for a real Bosendorfer. That _growl_... Go figure indeed.


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## Casiquire (Dec 16, 2017)

I could be wrong, but I'd be willing to bet hardly anybody can tell a well-mixed recording of a real piano versus a well-mixed, very good library. Maybe I'm not making any friends by saying that, but I believe it to be true.


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## kimarnesen (Dec 16, 2017)

Casiquire said:


> I could be wrong, but I'd be willing to bet hardly anybody can tell a well-mixed recording of a real piano versus a well-mixed, very good library. Maybe I'm not making any friends by saying that, but I believe it to be true.



Would need a blind test to know that, but I have my doubts.


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## creativeforge (Dec 16, 2017)

Here are my thoughts on the question of virtual vs physical instruments (grand piano in this case).

You can never really reproduce the physical experience of being in the presence of (12 inches away from) 20+ tons of raw energy "held up in the air" by nearly 235+ strings stretched to an average 180 to 200 pounds of tension each. And we can trigger these by controlling the velocity of mallets (hammers) covered with compacted wool, from a whisper to a roar. I mean it is extraordinary.

Not mentioning the physical changes occurring to both the strings and the hammers tips depending on how hard you play, as well as the sympathetic resonance! I don't know if you can account for that spectrum of velocities in any library. There is something in a real instrument of that size and power that could hardly be equaled.

The sound of a virtual library can approximate the core qualities of the actual instrument to the ear, but can it reproduce how a particular player would play it on different days, weather, emotional state, the response to the aural experiences of call and response? I don't think so. The virtual instrument library was recorded at a moment in time, and compared to an actual instrument, it will never really give you anything outside the parameters of its range of captured sonic events.

The musicality of the sound can be modified with effects and velocity, and musical genres, but at some point the artificial perfection of the sound will make you reach for other libraries searching for that "je ne sais quoi."

An outstanding library will always find you going back to it because it seems to give you that edge over the synthetic sound, almost an organic interaction with the sound source. But one person's estimation of what satisfies them at that level, will differ from another. And I think these qualities are better revealed in music where the piano is either predominant or solo.

My .02...


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## Fleer (Dec 16, 2017)

Am I right that the ArtVista Malmsjö is a 2GB download? How would it compare to Sampletekk’s WG2MkII? That’s also a Malmsjö and sounds just wonderful.


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## creativeforge (Dec 16, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Am I right that the ArtVista Malmsjö is a 2GB download? How would it compare to Sampletekk’s WG2MkII? That’s also a Malmsjö and sounds just wonderful.



Fleer, it is about 1.82GB uncompressed, going to 2.25 once unzipped. Can't answer the Sampletekk's comparison. It does sound wonderful. I bought it today and enjoy it's organic sound very much. In my experience, the sympathetic resonance is really satisfying.


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## Fleer (Dec 16, 2017)

robgb said:


> I have the Kontakt version.


They all are, all three iterations of the Sampletekk Black Grand run in Kontakt. Only one of them is Kontakt Player compatible and the least interesting in my book. The best of these three IMO is the Black Grand MkII.


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## conan (Dec 16, 2017)

The Art Vista Malmsjö is 2.21GB uncompressed. I just purchased it today and it's fantastic. Even Milton Babbitt's _Post-Partitions _sounds organic. It seems like it would be particularly well-suited for film and concert hall.


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## CGR (Dec 16, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Am I right that the ArtVista Malmsjö is a 2GB download? How would it compare to Sampletekk’s WG2MkII? That’s also a Malmsjö and sounds just wonderful.


If I remember correctly that sounds about right. Don't be put off by the small download size though. The ArtVista Malmsjö doesn't have the wiry brightness and huge dynamic range of Sampletekk's White Grand Mark 2 Malmsjö (the ArtVista piano is a 6ft or so 'parlour' grand I think, whereas the Sampletekk Malmsjö is a much larger concert size grand) but it has a depth of tone and organic quality I haven't found elsewhere, and the latest version (the Malmsjö GVI) has an improved dynamic range from the originally released version. Really important to select the correct keyboard model velocity map setting (KEYBOARD drop down menu) on the Art Vista pianos for your controller keyboard - it really changes the playing experience and dynamics dramatically.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 16, 2017)

BenG said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for a good all around piano for production music? (Epic, Underscore, etc.)



My recommendation would be that there are lots of good pianos out there, and instead of looking too far you should try to get a good sound of what you have.
Recently i was astonished what an impact the White Channel of IK Multimedia (just the EQ, the comp bypassed) had on the Ivory Bösendorfer. Suddenly it felt right.

Pianos are really a complex topic, because there is so much microcosmos involved in the sound of pianos.
The right way could be to follow one's instinct and then spending some time on sculpting the sound (or: to get to some starting points).

Said that, i want to add that recently i found myself recording my (real) piano, because it just was better for the required textures than any samples...


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## creativeforge (Dec 16, 2017)

Fleer said:


> They all are, all three iterations of the Sampletekk Black Grand run in Kontakt. Only one of them is Kontakt Player compatible and the least interesting in my book. The best of these three IMO is the Black Grand MkII.



Pay attention to the reviews on Sampletekk's site for the MKII:

http://www.sampletekk.com/grand-pianos?product_id=164


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## chrisphan (Dec 16, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> look at the amount of virtual pianos people seem to feel they need to buy almost endlessly. That tells you what you need to know about virtual pianos.


Nah, that tells me people just want to get more stuff, for everything not just the piano. I never need more than my XLN piano + Kontakt piano collection in a mix and I'm a pianist


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## creativeforge (Dec 16, 2017)

Living Fossil said:


> Recently i was astonished what an impact the White Channel of IK Multimedia (just the EQ, the comp bypassed) had on the Ivory Bösendorfer. Suddenly it felt right.



Interesting... If you ever get around to it, I'd be interested in hearing a before/after short track... I have Ivory II.


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## Casiquire (Dec 16, 2017)

To be clear, I'm not referring to the experience of playing it. I play classical piano, so my level of snobbery does lead me to believe that a sample library can't reproduce the experience of playing a piano, though the AvantGrand gets SO close. But as far as recordings, I stand by my previous statement.


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## BenG (Dec 17, 2017)

Living Fossil said:


> Said that, i want to add that recently i found myself recording my (real) piano, because it just was better for the required textures than any samples...



Been thinking about this recently as well! Though, I have been a bit hesitant due to my set-up/equipment. 

As for the sampled-pianos I have, they are definitely not dedicated piano libraries and are used for very specific applications. (I.e. Sad Piano from Alpha). Given my lack of libraries, I think Komplete (on sale) is my best bet and includes several decent options for different sounds.


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## NYC Composer (Dec 17, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> They can keep trying, but in the end you look at the amount of virtual pianos people seem to feel they need to buy almost endlessly. That tells you what you need to know about virtual pianos.
> Studios are generally happy with one or even two real pianos and tend to leave it at that.
> 
> The problem that virtual pianos cure for most people is that it gets them a 'piano sound' onto a track. If they had to sit at a real piano and record it, they would be there forever. A 'piano' within a daw allows for a lot of editing and mouse clicking. As does most of what goes through a computer.
> I would advise people to learn to play rather than spend that time talking about sample libraries and computers.



Is Colonel an upgrade from Baron?


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## BenG (Dec 17, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> I personally believe selecting tools that "resonate" with us is part of the art of music making. I love reading people's experience with and evaluation of sample libraries. That is why this forum exists, after all.
> 
> Whether novice or blockbusters composers, it helps to discuss and compare notes. We should always want to be learning and improve, certainly. Yet, some composers are not - by their own admission - "real" pianists, but they can compose scores using a keyboard with v-i libraries. That gives me hope, although not to have a career and compete in that world (I know my limitations).




Couldn't agree more André (and Jay!)

Each instrument has a unique sonic character that may appeal to some more than others. In my own experience, I've really loved the Yamaha sound and few (piano and clarinet) over other, more highly regarded, companies. 

Similarly in the virtual world, I've often preferred libraries which some would deem unusable and vice versa. This is what makes us unique and it is our sensibility/preferences that makes our music our own.


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## Fleer (Dec 17, 2017)

Oui, mon général.


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## Raindog (Dec 17, 2017)

CGR said:


> I wish I had discovered the Art Vista pianos earlier, after many disappointing purchases of 'plastic' sounding sampled pianos. Art Vista pianos are very real & resonant in tone - they are my first port of call if I'm after an authentic, character filled piano sound in many tracks.



+1. The Malmsjö has been my first sample library and it still is hard to beat for it´s specific sound


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## Raindog (Dec 17, 2017)

One thing people should never forget is that sampled pianos simulate a recorded piano and they do this extremely well.
It´s obvious that a sampled library can´t fool you when you´re playing a midi keyboard and listen to it on a monitor or headphones. That´s just not the way you listen to the real thing. It´s sound doesn´t come stereo it´s much more complex. Additionally don´t forget that you can FEEL the vibration of a real piano in your fingers, something that you just can´t imitate but which helps you a lot (in adjusting feeling and timing).

But when it comes to a piano record, nowaday´s sampled pianos are hard to beat and I bet they will fool most of us when tested in a blinded fashion. So when you want to have the real piano feeling get a real one. When you need a record of a piano in your song, get a sample library of your taste. It will probably be better than what you can get when you record your own real (grand)piano
Best regards
Raindog


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## SGordB (Dec 17, 2017)

Raindog said:


> One thing people should never forget is that sampled pianos simulate a recorded piano and they do this extremely well.
> It´s obvious that a sampled library can´t fool you when you´re playing a midi keyboard and listen to it on a monitor or headphones. That´s just not the way you listen to the real thing. It´s sound doesn´t come stereo it´s much more complex. Additionally don´t forget that you can FEEL the vibration of a real piano in your fingers, something that you just can´t imitate but which helps you a lot (in adjusting feeling and timing).
> 
> But when it comes to a piano record, nowaday´s sampled pianos are hard to beat and I bet they will fool most of us when tested in a blinded fashion. So when you want to have the real piano feeling get a real one. When you need a record of a piano in your song, get a sample library of your taste. It will probably be better than what you can get when you record your own real (grand)piano
> ...



I believe that's the nub of the matter, as a few others have also said or implied. It's not sampling or even modeling that's lacking for most musical and sonic intents and purposes; it's how we hear those piano VIs when we play them compared to hearing a real piano under our fingers (or someone else's) live, with a wood and steel "speaker system" the size of a bed. But compare _recordings_ of the two - levelling the playing field for how we hear them - and my ears, certainly, are very easily fooled. And given that most of us are using our VIs for recording, we have little to complain about.


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 17, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> T
> I would advise people to learn to play rather than spend that time talking about sample libraries and computers.


Same with violin, my instrument. These posers with their fancypants samples should just learn to play it. It's not that hard actually, if one started now they could lay down some tracks by 2037.


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## SGordB (Dec 17, 2017)

Sears Poncho said:


> Same with violin, my instrument. These posers with their fancypants samples should just learn to play it. It's not that hard actually, if one started now they could lay down some tracks by 2037.


My goal is to master all the instruments in the orchestra - and the other ones - so I can ditch my sample libraries by 2070.


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 17, 2017)

SGordB said:


> My goal is to master all the instruments in the orchestra - and the other ones - so I can ditch my sample libraries by 2070.


I not only play the violin, I play........................... the viola as well. Oh, and I played some percussion thingy for 8 measures in Guys and Dolls.


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## SGordB (Dec 17, 2017)

Sears Poncho said:


> I not only play the violin, I play........................... the viola as well. Oh, and I played some percussion thingy for 8 measures in Guys and Dolls.


Clearly you have a headstart if you ever want to eliminate cello libraries from your DAW. Me, I play guitar (professionally decades ago), but I find it easier plunking away on a nicely sampled one. My only decent guitars are electric, heavy and in danger of taking the "i" out of my iMac if I don't handle them carefully when recording.


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## Casiquire (Dec 17, 2017)

Technically the AvantGuard also vibrates under your fingers like a real piano. It's an incredible experience, if you ever get to try one at a piano showroom, do it! It's easily as close to the real thing as it gets.


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## ColonelMarquand (Dec 18, 2017)

Sears Poncho said:


> I not only play the violin, I play........................... the viola as well. Oh, and I played some percussion thingy for 8 measures in Guys and Dolls.



The viola? Don't worry. There are various narcotics available that can help you with that.


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## ColonelMarquand (Dec 18, 2017)

I enjoy reading the talk about pianos on this remarkable thread. I took 8 grades on the piano finishing on grade 8 in 1968. Then went on to study piano and other keyboard instruments at a music college in London. 
What you find with real instruments that have an integral keyboard (such as a piano) is the feedback you get while playing. Even on synthesisers, for example like a Prophet or a Moog are much better than a crappy midi keyboard attached to a computer.
But this all depends of course on how good you are.


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## ColonelMarquand (Dec 18, 2017)

Sears Poncho said:


> I not only play the violin, I play........................... the viola as well. Oh, and I played some percussion thingy for 8 measures in Guys and Dolls.



You of course know that you can put that viola of yours on the dashboard of your car and park anywhere in the world for free right?


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## thereus (Dec 18, 2017)

SGordB said:


> I believe that's the nub of the matter, as a few others have also said or implied. It's not sampling or even modeling that's lacking for most musical and sonic intents and purposes; it's how we hear those piano VIs when we play them compared to hearing a real piano under our fingers (or someone else's) live, with a wood and steel "speaker system" the size of a bed. But compare _recordings_ of the two - levelling the playing field for how we hear them - and my ears, certainly, are very easily fooled. And given that most of us are using our VIs for recording, we have little to complain about.


Yup


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## CGR (Dec 21, 2017)

wcreed51 said:


> >>widespread taste differences with real pianos
> 
> After his beloved CD318 was irreparably damaged in shipment back to Toronto, Glen Gould spent years looking for a piano to his (eccentric) liking. He drove Steinway crazy, but they couldn't give him anything he liked, nor could any of the other big names. He finally bought a Yamaha CFX, on which he did his second recording of the Goldberg Variations, the year before he died.


Interesting story. Apologies for the nit-picking but I don't think the Yamaha CFX was released until the last 5 or so years (I might be wrong there), so I'd suggest the piano Glenn Gould bought may have been a Yamaha CFIIIs concert grand. I've played a few of these and they are a beast of a piano, but I found the ones I played to be none-too-subtle (although they had been bashed around a bit).


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## wcreed51 (Dec 21, 2017)

You may well be right. The story is from "A Romance on Three Legs", which doesn't name the model. It was my piano technician that said "it must be a CFX". In any case, a Yamaha technician had meticulously regulated it for a couple of years before Gould played it, so not an off the shelf concert grand in any case.


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## SGordB (Dec 21, 2017)

wcreed51 said:


> You may well be right. The story is from "A Romance on Three Legs", which doesn't name the model. It was my piano technician that said "it must be a CFX". In any case, a Yamaha technician had meticulously regulated it for a couple of years before Gould played it, so not an off the shelf concert grand in any case.



Terrific book. I literally couldn't put it down (OK, I put it down a few times to sleep and stuff). Another great read in a similar vein is _Grand Obsession_ by Perry Knize (). Gould's Steinway D surrogate was a CFII (https://ca.yamaha.com/en/news_event..._goulds_piano_in_celebration_of_his_80th.html).


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## Virtual Virgin (Dec 24, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> I would advise people to learn to play rather than spend that time talking about sample libraries and computers.



Why is it either/or? Why should musicians be forbidden to talk about the latest music technology? Why are you even on these message boards (in a forum titled "Sample Talk" no less)?


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## ColonelMarquand (Dec 24, 2017)

Virtual Virgin said:


> Why is it either/or? Why should musicians be forbidden to talk about the latest music technology? Why are you even on these message boards (in a forum titled "Sample Talk" no less)?



That's 3 moronic questions in a row. That maybe a record.

Back along, I can't imagine going into the numerous studios I frequented along with many other keyboard players and asking for a choice of 25 different pianos. That would have been regarded as a minor mental illness.

Having heard over the years numerous tracks done by 'musicians' using mainly, if not only sample libraries to make music, I would stress - LEARN TO PLAY. The possibilities of improvisation leading on to many opening doors then becomes endless, rather than spending time constantly trying to sound like someone else.
The piano sounds on recordings from 50 years ago sound better than most piano sounds today. Here's a question. Ever stopped to think why?


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## Virtual Virgin (Dec 24, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> That's 3 moronic questions in a row. That maybe a record.
> 
> Back along, I can't imagine going into the numerous studios I frequented along with many other keyboard players and asking for a choice of 25 different pianos. That would have been regarded as a minor mental illness.
> 
> ...



You're obviously asleep over there. Here comes the Colonel to tell Les Paul to stop fiddling with that newfangled pickup doo-whanger, those ridiculous tape machines, and those fake sounding echo chambers. "Just learn how to play Les and and you won't need all those tracks!".


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## Kony (Dec 24, 2017)




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## robgb (Dec 24, 2017)

I once worked at CBS Television City in Hollywood. Upstairs are some rehearsal rooms and just outside these is a warehouse sized room with several grand pianos (maybe a dozen or so?) sitting around, among them Yamahas and Steinways. I spent my lunch breaks playing these pianos every day for two years. No modeled or sampled piano comes close to that experience. But they're great for recording.


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## Kony (Dec 24, 2017)

ColonelMarquand said:


> That's 3 moronic questions in a row. That maybe a record.
> 
> Back along, I can't imagine going into the numerous studios I frequented along with many other keyboard players and asking for a choice of 25 different pianos. That would have been regarded as a minor mental illness.
> 
> ...


Hello - this thread is about piano sample libraries, not about advice for learning to play and improvise - and why assume contributors don't know how to play? Regarding your point - seeking out a good sampled piano library is not like asking to try 25 different real pianos to see which one sounds like a real piano. The thread is about which sampled piano gets closest to the real thing....


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## NYC Composer (Dec 24, 2017)

The Colonel gets a little testy after his colonic. Pay him no mind. He's actually a really nice....er...pretty nice.....er....oh, ok he's generally an asshat. Oh, and he can play and you can't.


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## SGordB (Dec 24, 2017)

Sampled piano, modeled piano or real piano - 'tis ever been thus: 

Part 2:


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## Kony (Dec 24, 2017)

NYC Composer said:


> The Colonel gets a little testy after his colonic. Pay him no mind. He's actually a really nice....er...pretty nice.....er....oh, ok he's generally an asshat. Oh, and he can play and you can't.


lol I forgot about that - and that the Colonel also gets tetchy before his morning ablutions &c. Something to do with the buckshot wound he sustained in the Boer war.....


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## steveo42 (Dec 27, 2017)

I picked up the Garritan CFX Full Version over black Friday and I'm struggling with it. I'm a pro jazz player. It seems the Garritan is swimming in reverb and no matter what I do I can't get a balanced , crisp, player perspective sound from it like say Ravenscroft 275 or American D. Due to the holidays I confess I haven't dived in deep but just playing around with the presets isn't encouraging. Any tips on how to get rid of the reverb wash easily with the CFX ?


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## SGordB (Dec 27, 2017)

steveo42 said:


> I picked up the Garritan CFX Full Version over black Friday and I'm struggling with it. I'm a pro jazz player. It seems the Garritan is swimming in reverb and no matter what I do I can't get a balanced , crisp, player perspective sound from it like say Ravenscroft 275 or American D. Due to the holidays I confess I haven't dived in deep but just playing around with the presets isn't encouraging. Any tips on how to get rid of the reverb wash easily with the CFX ?



I have CFX Lite, and it's as dry as I want it to be. You are turning off (or down) the reverb on the "studio" page, right, and picking a close mic (Lite only has one mic pair)?


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## SGordB (Dec 27, 2017)

steveo42 said:


> I picked up the Garritan CFX Full Version over black Friday and I'm struggling with it. I'm a pro jazz player. It seems the Garritan is swimming in reverb and no matter what I do I can't get a balanced , crisp, player perspective sound from it like say Ravenscroft 275 or American D. Due to the holidays I confess I haven't dived in deep but just playing around with the presets isn't encouraging. Any tips on how to get rid of the reverb wash easily with the CFX ?



Looking at the comparison page (https://www.garritan.com/products/cfx-concert-grand-virtual-piano/compare-cfx-lite/), I see there are "ambient" mics on every mic pair in the full version (not so in Lite). There must be a way to turn them down or off.


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## SGordB (Dec 27, 2017)

Be sure to turn ambient down or off: https://usermanuals.garritan.com/CFXConcertGrand/Content/presets.htm


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## steveo42 (Dec 27, 2017)

Thanks for the tips SGordB. I will give them a try tonight and report back my findings.


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## Leandro Marcos (Dec 27, 2017)

my vote goes for EWQL Pianos Gold


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## CGR (Dec 27, 2017)

steveo42 said:


> I picked up the Garritan CFX Full Version over black Friday and I'm struggling with it. I'm a pro jazz player. It seems the Garritan is swimming in reverb and no matter what I do I can't get a balanced , crisp, player perspective sound from it like say Ravenscroft 275 or American D. Due to the holidays I confess I haven't dived in deep but just playing around with the presets isn't encouraging. Any tips on how to get rid of the reverb wash easily with the CFX ?


This is similar to my initial impression of the Garritan CFX, and for a while I never used it, but in recent months I've persisted with it and have discovered how to sculpture the sound I want - from an airy, ambient tone (taking advantage of the Abbey Road Studio One ambience) to a tighter, warm and full tone more suited to pop & jazz tracks. For a tighter sound, I mainly use the Classic mic sets, and pull down the ambient mic to about 60-70% of the close mic, and reduce the Release Volume & Release Sustain dials in the PIANO settings tab. Also adding some Saturation in the STUDIO tab helps. Hang in there - it's a brilliant sampled piano - one of the very best available.


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## CGR (Dec 27, 2017)

FWIW, here's a recent track of mine which features the Garritan CFX (Track 029 Around Again):

http://www.motionfocusmusic.com/album/mofom 222/mofom-222-Sentimental-Journeys


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## CGR (Dec 27, 2017)

Also worth trying the Contemporary mic set. From the Garritan website: "_Contemporary Mic Perspective – bright and hard with lots of attack from the hammers, while maintaining warmth with intimate ambience"_


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## BenG (Dec 27, 2017)

CGR said:


> Also worth trying the Contemporary mic set. From the Garritan website: "_Contemporary Mic Perspective – bright and hard with lots of attack from the hammers, while maintaining warmth with intimate ambience"_



Thanks for sharing and really enjoyed your piece! It is also interesting to hear the Garritan CFX which I was not aware of!


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## BenG (Dec 27, 2017)

Leandro Marcos said:


> my vote goes for EWQL Pianos Gold



I actually did try these a few months ago (via ComposerCloud) and wasn't a huge fan. That said, it was for a completely different project with a very different sound. Perhaps I should give it another try!


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## keepitsimple (Dec 27, 2017)

steveo42 said:


> I picked up the Garritan CFX Full Version over black Friday and I'm struggling with it. I'm a pro jazz player. It seems the Garritan is swimming in reverb and no matter what I do I can't get a balanced , crisp, player perspective sound from it like say Ravenscroft 275 or American D. Due to the holidays I confess I haven't dived in deep but just playing around with the presets isn't encouraging. Any tips on how to get rid of the reverb wash easily with the CFX ?



Try 'Goldberg 1981' preset.


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## chasmanian (Dec 27, 2017)

also Bill Evans preset.


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## Eric Koondel (Jan 22, 2018)

Greetings Everyone.

I am new to VI Control but have done a fair amount of searching and really respect everyones knowledge here. I work on a lot of Dense Rock and Metal Productions. I was just wondering what you might recommend for Piano VIs that work well next to a lot of other elements in the track.

Ill leave a link to an example production.



Thank you so much for any time and suggestions you can give.

Cheers,
Eric


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## Vin (Jan 22, 2018)

Eric Koondel said:


> Greetings Everyone.
> 
> I am new to VI Control but have done a fair amount of searching and really respect everyones knowledge here. I work on a lot of Dense Rock and Metal Productions. I was just wondering what you might recommend for Piano VIs that work well next to a lot of other elements in the track.
> 
> ...




*The Giant* is great for this type of bright cutting sound.


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## ratherbirds (Jan 28, 2018)

In the series "search your piano sound", I would like to add one of my research (maybe someone knows) is the sound of the end of the track of Art of Noise (beat box diversion 1). A broad spectrum sound as if there were more than 3 strings on some keys?!). Do you know this piano and one of its samples?


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## blougui (Jan 28, 2018)

Beatbox : could just be the 100 years Steinway that stands in Sarm West.


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## synthpunk (Jan 28, 2018)

That would be my guess, is it still owned by Trevor Horn ?

She uses a Bosendorfer at home these days btw.

And a sad note, Trevor recently lost his LA SARM studio to the California wildfires.





blougui said:


> Beatbox : could just be the 100 years Steinway that stands in Sarm West.


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## Rob (Jan 28, 2018)

ratherbirds said:


> In the series "search your piano sound", I would like to add one of my research (maybe someone knows) is the sound of the end of the track of Art of Noise (beat box diversion 1). A broad spectrum sound as if there were more than 3 strings on some keys?!). Do you know this piano and one of its samples?



Artvista VGP3 can come close...

EDIT: VGP example in this style, "gospel piano" preset

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/vgp-beatbox-mp3.11530/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## CGR (Jan 29, 2018)

Rob said:


> Artvista VGP3 can come close...
> 
> EDIT: VGP example in this style, "gospel piano" preset
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/vgp-beatbox-mp3.11530/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Good one Rob - you're right with the ArtVista VGP there. Very similar character (Nice playing too!)


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## ratherbirds (Feb 3, 2018)

Hi,
I tried play with my existing library NI Maverick piano. 
The sound is not as large as that of the VGP, but it's not so bad. 
Below a little mp3

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/test_piano_sound_diversion1-mp3.11632/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## CGR (Feb 3, 2018)

ratherbirds said:


> Hi,
> I tried play with my existing library NI Maverick piano.
> The sound is not as large as that of the VGP, but it's not so bad.
> Below a little mp3
> ...


I have The Maverick as well as the ArtVista VGP3 - The Maverick is very playable and is a real character piano, but the ArtVista VGP3 has more natural resonance and body which I found you can't match with EQ & other tweaks to The Maverick. ArtVista really stand apart in this area with their pianos.


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## paularthur (Feb 3, 2018)

Searching for a very good quiet piano, any suggestions?


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## axb312 (Feb 4, 2018)

paularthur said:


> Searching for a very good quiet piano, any suggestions?


Pearl Concert grand.....


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## CGR (Feb 4, 2018)

paularthur said:


> Searching for a very good quiet piano, any suggestions?


ArtVista Malmsjo would be my suggestion:
http://www.artvista.net/malmsjo.html
Have a listen to the demos 'Hommage' and 'Prelude'.


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## germancomponist (Feb 4, 2018)

CGR said:


> ArtVista Malmsjo would be my suggestion:
> http://www.artvista.net/malmsjo.html
> Have a listen to the demos 'Hommage' and 'Prelude'.


And the "Supergrand" piano. Absolutely awesome.


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## Maxfabian (Feb 4, 2018)

I think the "supergrand" by Artvista is pretty nice!!



Otherwise my "goto" pianolibrary is Ravenscroft 275.


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## SGordB (Feb 4, 2018)

paularthur said:


> Searching for a very good quiet piano, any suggestions?


Check out Spitfire's "Soft Piano" around 60 seconds in:  It's a $5 gamble at the moment, along with 9 of their other "lab" instruments.


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## paularthur (Feb 4, 2018)

Soft Felt is my startup sketching piano. Been thinking about getting Malmsjo for a year but havent quite convinced myself (posted about it a few pages back... Going to do some research of this Ravencroft! Thanks for the time gents!


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## CGR (Feb 4, 2018)

Maxfabian said:


> I think the "supergrand" by Artvista is pretty nice!!
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise my "goto" pianolibrary is Ravenscroft 275.



Nice composition & playing Max! Particularly like your track 'Improvisation' - I'm guessing that's the Ravenscroft? . . . and just listened to the track 'Leaving' - very Eric Satie-like. Lovely work. The track 'Streaming' reminds me of some of the earlier Tord Gustavsen Trio albums. Very tasteful and subtle.


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## Maxfabian (Feb 5, 2018)

CGR said:


> Nice composition & playing Max! Particularly like your track 'Improvisation' - I'm guessing that's the Ravenscroft? . . . and just listened to the track 'Leaving' - very Eric Satie-like. Lovely work. The track 'Streaming' reminds me of some of the earlier Tord Gustavsen Trio albums. Very tasteful and subtle.



Thanks man. Glad you liked my tracks!! Yes it is the Ravenscroft on the tune "Improvisation". Tord Gustavsen Trio is really a nice trio. I haven't heard that much of them but what I have heard it sounds really nice! Thanks for the compliments! Cheers


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## ratherbirds (Feb 6, 2018)

paularthur said:


> Searching for a very good quiet piano, any suggestions?


Hi, here there are some examples of "quiet piano".


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## paularthur (Feb 6, 2018)

while thumbing thru East West's products i came across an exceptional Fazioli, i wish they would make it a stand alone... it's perfect.


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## Fleer (Feb 6, 2018)

Forgot about that one. Sweet indeed.


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## Ronald Wilson (Feb 6, 2018)

paularthur said:


> Searching for a very good quiet piano, any suggestions?



You want classical or jazz voicing? What model? You want a grand or upright?

Piano in Blue (the Steinway D on Some kind of Blue) is nice for subtle stuff. I picked that up the last sale was $69 IIRC, have it on a few tracks.

Do you want a Kawai or what? Someone sampled a Kawai that sounded pretty good (Emotional Piano I think?), that has a softer tone than the Steinways. I don't have the VST though.

If you're doing the Newman thing, just lowpass and turn up reverb


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## zadillo (Feb 7, 2018)

Ronald Wilson said:


> You want classical or jazz voicing? What model? You want a grand or upright?
> 
> Piano in Blue (the Steinway D on Some kind of Blue) is nice for subtle stuff. I picked that up the last sale was $69 IIRC, have it on a few tracks.
> 
> ...



Yeah, SoundIron's Emotional Piano is a Kawai Grand.

There's also Acoustisamples Kawai EX Pro


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## CGR (Feb 7, 2018)

Ronald Wilson said:


> Piano in Blue (the Steinway D on Some kind of Blue) is nice for subtle stuff.


Definitely. It has a real 'weight' to the sound which sounds solid even when played softly and sitting in a mix. The Acousticsamples Kawai EX Pro is another good option (has the 'weight') but thins out a bit in the top end, and is a little more difficult to go subtle with compared to Piano in Blue in my experience.


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## ratherbirds (Feb 27, 2018)

Another good soft piano
https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/instruments/pianos-and-keys/gwilym-simcock-felt-piano/


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## paularthur (Mar 4, 2018)

I got Emotional Piano, it has a cool character and tone. I'll still use The Giant for my big-ish hybrid stuff but i think the Emo-Piano will be my piano piece piano... I'll get Piano in Blue if i ever do some noir stuff... =)


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## Fry777 (Mar 4, 2018)

As an alternative to Emotional Piano or Piano in Blue, may I recommend this one, currently on intro price :
http://fracturesounds.com/product/woodchester-piano/


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## Ronald Wilson (Mar 6, 2018)

Fry777 said:


> As an alternative to Emotional Piano or Piano in Blue, may I recommend this one, currently on intro price :
> http://fracturesounds.com/product/woodchester-piano/



Sounds pretty good. I usually don't go in for the felt piano libraries either. Is the library that wet, or do you show the fx chain somewhere in the preview vids? It's a wet library right?

Minor caveat, I wouldn't really say it's an alternative to PiB. It's an upright German Wilh. Steinberg w/the damper pedal. PiB is a grand (vintage Steinway D). Apples and Oranges.


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## willbedford (Mar 7, 2018)

Ronald Wilson said:


> Sounds pretty good. I usually don't go in for the felt piano libraries either. Is the library that wet, or do you show the fx chain somewhere in the preview vids? It's a wet library right?
> 
> Minor caveat, I wouldn't really say it's an alternative to PiB. It's an upright German Wilh. Steinberg w/the damper pedal. PiB is a grand (vintage Steinway D). Apples and Oranges.


Woodchester Piano is a dry library with additional 'atmosphere layers' built in. 
Check out the walkthrough at 4:39 - you can hear each layer individually, including the dry layer. 

Also feel free to read through the comments on the official thread. You'll find some interesting comparisons to other libraries on the market  https://vi-control.net/community/threads/woodchester-piano-new-from-fracture-sounds.69376/


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## ptram (May 22, 2018)

This may end up being a message _against_ poor The Grandeur, due to the use out of context and the unedited roughness, but I happen to like it very much. This is a rendition of a Prokofiev piano concerto I'm working on, and can be interesting for how it shows the naked piano, with no reverb or processing at all. I find it sounds very real, and responds very well.

http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/musichealtri/Proko-Concerto-Piano-3-1.mp3

Paolo


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## SGordB (May 22, 2018)

ptram said:


> This may end up being a message _against_ poor The Grandeur, due to the use out of context and the unedited roughness, but I happen to like it very much. This is a rendition of a Prokofiev piano concerto I'm working on, and can be interesting for how it shows the naked piano, with no reverb or processing at all. I find it sounds very real, and responds very well.
> 
> http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/musichealtri/Proko-Concerto-Piano-3-1.mp3
> 
> Paolo


Makes me wanna give my dusty Grandeur some love.


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## SGordB (May 22, 2018)

ptram said:


> This may end up being a message _against_ poor The Grandeur, due to the use out of context and the unedited roughness, but I happen to like it very much. This is a rendition of a Prokofiev piano concerto I'm working on, and can be interesting for how it shows the naked piano, with no reverb or processing at all. I find it sounds very real, and responds very well.
> 
> http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/musichealtri/Proko-Concerto-Piano-3-1.mp3
> 
> Paolo


I'd love to hear how the concerto sounds when you're done. The Grandeur really is impressive in its bare nakedness but will surely shine with a little "room" on it.


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## ptram (May 22, 2018)

I can't wait to hear it in context, too. In particular, this concerto sees the soloist and orchestra interact and interconnect, and the piano would exhibit its full meaning only when the orchestra converses with it.

Paolo


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## seaofwine (May 22, 2018)

It's incredible how in every piano thread in this amazing, nontheless, forum how in the end the summury of raccomendations includes each piano of the entire industry!!


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## ptram (May 22, 2018)

That happens even in the world of real pianos. I like German pianos, but most of my colleagues prefer a particular Japanese brand. That I can't stand. Some like an Italian piano the most. I personally like the heavy keyboard of Schimmel pianos, but I see this is not very common, being a lighter keyboard usually preferred. A particular Austrian pianos is usually not completely understood, but I love it. And nobody talks about French pianos. And there is not consensus on a famous Czek piano many students have learnt on.

The beautiful thing is that many different manufacturers still exist, so we are still free to choose our preferred piano. If we can afford it.

Paolo


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## Leon Portelance (May 22, 2018)

+1 for the Wavesfactory Mercury.


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