# Anyone else hate the "wheel" controls for pitch bend etc



## bill5 (Nov 16, 2018)

Having used both the wheels and joystick setups, I cannot believe the wheel thing has lasted this long; it's neanderthal by comparison IMO. Unfortunately, Roland and the precious few who use the joystick make them ridiculously tiny (???), so I doubt I'll ever have a control that IMO actually is optimal or even close, but I'll take even the sillyish tiny toy joystick over the wheel BS. Why nobody can really get this right I'll never know. Agree/not?


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## chimuelo (Nov 20, 2018)

Not at all but take a long throw FC7 Expression Pedal to it if you are bored.

My Guitarist gets some great sounds with his PBend EXP.
Also change PBend values and even assign them to buttons.
One set for an octave another a whole step another two octaves, etc.

If you’re really looking to escape listen to Josef Zawinuls synth solo from Weather Reports Song Freezing Fire. Uses switches and Lever/Wheel simultaneously.

I actually liked the Levers from way back when.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 20, 2018)

I love the wheel so much that I'm trying to sell my S88 MK1 so I can buy the MK2 because I hate the touchstrip's; also not a fan of joysticks. I'll take the wheel any day.


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## bill5 (Nov 20, 2018)

To each their own. But once I found that a joystick allows me to control pitch AND mod all in one control vs having to basically choose one or the other in 2 separate controls, I couldn't believe the latter was so mainstream.


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## FinGael (Nov 20, 2018)

I have only keyboards with wheels, but prefer a joystick for pitch. For dynamics/modulation wheel is ok. I remember vividly the days when I had a brand new Korg Triton as a master keyboard - playing Jan Hammer -like synth guitars (with the joystick) like a madman.

I guess it's time to buy a Roland keyboard with a stick.


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## bill5 (Nov 20, 2018)

chimuelo said:


> Not at all but take a long throw FC7 Expression Pedal to it if you are bored.


I'm not bored, I'm annoyed.  I wish they'd make it all modular so you could basically unplug one and insert the other.


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## chimuelo (Nov 20, 2018)

They fear change.


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## EvilDragon (Nov 21, 2018)

Wheels are great. Especially if they have tighter springs that do a wobble when you flick them back to center (like on Moog Sub 37, for example - if I remember correctly, but Voyager definitely has it like that), which mimics the vibrato flutter you can do on a Floyd Rose equipped guitar. Haven't seen a joystick that does that yet! So that's one minus for joysticks in my book.

The biggest negative of joysticks is that you cannot "park" the modwheel part of it. If it goes to center, it all goes back to center, including mod. I literally hate that. Studiologic has those joysticks which you can disable the springs on individual axes, but this does more harm than good as far as I'm concerned, because there's no WAY it's going to stay in the y-axis position you set it at while you're hammering left-right to do your pitch bend. No way. Wheels for the win, any time of the day or night.

That said, Roland's joysticks are *retarded *(yes I am bolding that because it aggravates me *that *much). Korg's are much better, because they also go *down. *They also feel better to use and have larger y-axis travel, matching the x-axis travel (on Rolands, the y-axis travel is usually shorter than x-axis travel, which is again, retarded).

Nord's pitch stick is probably the best device for pitch bend, though (apart from a free surface like Continuum or Seaboard).



FinGael said:


> I guess it's time to buy a Roland keyboard with a stick.



Better get a Korg if you want a joystick. Or if you want the best ever pitch bend feeling, get a Nord that has their awesome pitch stick and knock yourself out.


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## FinGael (Nov 21, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Wheels are great. Especially if they have tighter springs that do a wobble when you flick them back to center (like on Moog Sub 37, for example - if I remember correctly), which mimics the vibrato flutter you can do on a Floyd Rose equipped guitar. Haven't seen a joystick that does that yet! So that's one minus for joysticks in my book.
> 
> The biggest negative of joysticks is that you cannot "park" the modwheel part of it. If it goes to center, it all goes back to center, including mod. I literally hate that. Studiologic has those joysticks which you can disable the springs on individual axes, but this does more harm than good as far as I'm concerned, because there's no WAY it's going to stay in the y-axis position you set it at while you're hammering left-right to do your pitch bend. No way. Wheels for the win, any time of the day or night.
> 
> ...



Thank you EvilDragon.

I was planning to get a cheap controller with a joystick; just for the fun of playing sampled guitars, and some other solo instruments that need pitch bending.

Not going to replace my other keyboards, and was planning to use it as an extra only when needed for those purposes.

For some reason I cannot get the bending right with a wheel. Have been trying well over a decade now. When I use the wheel, the pitch bending is mostly up from the tuning point of the original note and feels and sounds most of the times awkward. With a joystick I can make it properly bend around the note better.

The problem with parking "the modwheel" with a joystick is true and annoying. I assume that I can assign the modwheel to a slider or some other controller/CC if I need it to maintain its value?


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## EvilDragon (Nov 21, 2018)

FinGael said:


> When I use the wheel, the pitch bending is mostly up from the tuning point of the original note and feels and sounds most of the times awkward.



That's how it is on the guitar, though! When you bend a string, no matter if you move it up or down, it only bends the pitch _upwards_. The only difference is the whammy bar, that one can go in both directions (in case of Floyd Rose/Kahler designs), or just down (in case of old Fender designs).

The trick when you do vibrato with pitch bend wheel is not to return it to dead center, but hover above the center a bit all the time you're vibratoing until you're done with the vibrato. This way you avoid the dead spot of the wheel.

Watch some videos of how Jens Johansson plays. He's the master.


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## FinGael (Nov 21, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> That's how it is on the guitar, though! When you bend a string, no matter if you move it up or down, it only bends the pitch _upwards_. The only difference is the whammy bar, that one can go in both directions (in case of Floyd Rose/Kahler designs), or just down (in case of old Fender designs).
> 
> The trick when you do vibrato with pitch bend wheel is not to return it to dead center, but hover above the center a bit all the time you're vibratoing until you're done with the vibrato. This way you avoid the dead spot of the wheel.
> 
> Watch some videos of how Jens Johansson plays. He's the master.



True true. Should know that because I got my first electric axe on my 9th birthday. 

Even though my analysis of my pitch bending was faulty from the start, there is something when I'm using the wheel for pitch that does not sound right. I know it's a user error. Maybe has something to do with the fact, that in the 90's I mostly used joysticks for pitch, and it is hard to learn other ways.

Or maybe better wake up properly before posting. More coffee please. A lot.


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