# Big template in logic witout VEP?



## mariusch (Sep 12, 2017)

Hi!
Anyone knows if there is a way to make big orchestral template in logic without using vep? I have seen that cubase and studio one has enable / disable function to reduce memory/Ram. The idea is to have a large template without having to load all samples at once. Freezing not working for this. Thanks!


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## stonzthro (Sep 12, 2017)

AFAIK Logic's disable button only frees up CPU.


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## Alex Fraser (Sep 12, 2017)

mariusch said:


> Hi!
> Anyone knows if there is a way to make big orchestral template in logic without using vep? I have seen that cubase and studio one has enable / disable function to reduce memory/Ram. The idea is to have a large template without having to load all samples at once. Freezing not working for this. Thanks!


That would be the dream! Good question, it's something I'm pondering too.
Like stonzthro, I believe "disable" only frees the CPU. The track count limit would still be in place and the plug would still have to load samples regardless. Which ultimately misses the point.

The only other idea I had would be to create patches. So, you'd set up your Kontakt instances, name/colour tracks etc and save as a patch. You'd then recall these "on the fly" as needed. You could even get clever with track stacks and import entire sections of the orchestra. Coupled with a fast SSD it might be doable?

Following..


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## Mike Marino (Sep 12, 2017)

If you're using mainly Kontakt instruments I believe you can open your template with your Kontakt instruments being 'purged'.


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## Soundhound (Sep 12, 2017)

You can load your (Kontakt, some others as well I'd think) instruments purged, but for me the big difference with VEP is the significant lowering of CPU usage in Logic. I've been using VEP on all projects the last months, and a few of them wouldn't be possible without VEP in Logic on my quickly aging 2012 i7 iMac. I still find VEP to be kind of a pita, no knock on its design, it's beautifully done and orgranized, I just would rather be inside the DAW all the time, window management, etc etc...


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## Saxer (Sep 12, 2017)

I import the tracks I need from other songs. Fast and no unneeded stuff.


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## jeffc (Sep 12, 2017)

I don't know what the definition of 'big' is, but I do everything in Logic - full orchestral template - with just Kontakt instruments. No VE Pro. Stuff that ends up being played by real guys eventually many times. I wouldn't do it with 2000 articulations loaded, but if you have a reasonable template it works fine. While it may take a minute or so to open, it is far more convenient at the end of a project, when you want to bounce to audio in faster than real time, export tracks as audio, etc. With each instrument on its own track, it's just so much more convenient. Plus, if you're working on a show/film - once you open the template once, you can just save as the next cue and rename it, so you don't have to wait each time. After getting used to this way of working, I'll never go back.


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## Kent (Sep 12, 2017)

jeffc said:


> I don't know what the definition of 'big' is, but I do everything in Logic - full orchestral template - with just Kontakt instruments. No VE Pro. Stuff that ends up being played by real guys eventually many times. I wouldn't do it with 2000 articulations loaded, but if you have a reasonable template it works fine. While it may take a minute or so to open, it is far more convenient at the end of a project, when you want to bounce to audio in faster than real time, export tracks as audio, etc. With each instrument on its own track, it's just so much more convenient. Plus, if you're working on a show/film - once you open the template once, you can just save as the next cue and rename it, so you don't have to wait each time. After getting used to this way of working, I'll never go back.


I like this, but I (and I expect many other Logic / VE Pro users here) do have a "one instrument per track" setup (thanks, @Ashermusic !). Other than which software is ultimately containing the Kontakt instances, how is your setup different?


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## Alex Fraser (Sep 12, 2017)

jeffc said:


> I don't know what the definition of 'big' is, but I do everything in Logic - full orchestral template - with just Kontakt instruments. No VE Pro. Stuff that ends up being played by real guys eventually many times. I wouldn't do it with 2000 articulations loaded, but if you have a reasonable template it works fine. While it may take a minute or so to open, it is far more convenient at the end of a project, when you want to bounce to audio in faster than real time, export tracks as audio, etc. With each instrument on its own track, it's just so much more convenient. Plus, if you're working on a show/film - once you open the template once, you can just save as the next cue and rename it, so you don't have to wait each time. After getting used to this way of working, I'll never go back.



Thanks, Jeffc. Really useful. If you don't mind, could you fill in a couple of details for me/us?
Do you have your Kontakt instances loaded with samples purged initially? Also, could you shed some light on the Mac setup you use to run the template? Any notes greatly appreciated.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 12, 2017)

Select a No Output track at the same time as the one you're working on (Command/click). That stops a lot of CPU spiking.


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## IFM (Sep 12, 2017)

I use VEP but honestly it could all live in Logic. I've nevere come close to the VI track limit with what I consider a large template. Putting different articulations on different tracks is the key. You can also take the time to save channel strip presets and call in things that aren't part of the default template in.


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## jeffc (Sep 12, 2017)

kmaster said:


> I like this, but I (and I expect many other Logic / VE Pro users here) do have a "one instrument per track" setup (thanks, @Ashermusic !). Other than which software is ultimately containing the Kontakt instances, how is your setup different?


Not sure of the question here. My setup is incredibly simple and basic - as I like it. I was just saying, for me at least, having each articulation on its own track (i.e. Kontakt instance) in Logic, works best for me. No multi-instruments. And for me the reason is that - in the slave days, or Bidule, at the end of a project you'd have a session with a ton of midi tracks triggering the external Kontakts. Great for monitoring, but to get all of that into audio to mix was a really time and labor intensive process for me, which by staying all in Logic, got much easier for my workflow.


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## garyhiebner (Sep 13, 2017)

Logic with SkiSwitcher3 works great. Very easy to switch between articulations. And alot less Memory usage than trying to load up separate articulations on separate tracks.


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## jonathanwright (Sep 14, 2017)

As the other guys have mentioned, it's very easy in Logic to use a modular approach by saving your tracks as presets in the library.

Put several tracks in a summing stack and you can save that as one preset. Great if you want to load a whole section at once.


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## samphony (Sep 14, 2017)

Correct the summing stack approach has other benefits too. It remembers the track volume setting of each track that lives in a summing stack. A track also remembers its sends routings too and creates additional busses which is of great benefit too!


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## garyhiebner (Sep 16, 2017)

Does a Summing Track Stack work better than a Folder Track Stack. I read that the Folder Track acts like a VCA, where the Summing Track Stack actually sums the tracks and audio passing through it. Not too sure which is the better route to go, a VCA folder or summing folder. Any suggestions?


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## samphony (Sep 16, 2017)

garyhiebner said:


> Does a Summing Track Stack work better than a Folder Track Stack. I read that the Folder Track acts like a VCA, where the Summing Track Stack actually sums the tracks and audio passing through it. Not too sure which is the better route to go, a VCA folder or summing folder. Any suggestions?


Summing stacks are great if you wanna combine couple of tracks into one instrument like studio ones multi instrument. And or combine tracks into groups like strings, brass etc you could also put the group reverb aux tracks into the summing stack of each group. 

Only summing stacks allow to be saved as patches for easy recall but I send the dev team a UX feature request to enable patch saving on folder stacks too. Would be great to have that as well. 

I personally combine both summing and folder stacks in my projects.


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## IFM (Sep 23, 2017)

I just reset my template with this method. I have summing stacks inside of folder stacks now and I love that you can save all the summing stacks as presets. It even remembers the colors which I was happy about.


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## Kent (Sep 24, 2017)

garyhiebner said:


> @IFM how do you have summing stacks within folder stacks? From what Ive seen you can only stack tracks into folders once in Logic. You can't take extra stacks and stack them into another folder, well as far as my knowledge goes. Would love to hear how you did this


Select the summing stack track itself (not its contents) and you can easily do it however you typically make Folder Stacks.


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## IFM (Sep 24, 2017)

kmaster said:


> Select the summing stack track itself (not its contents) and you can easily do it however you typically make Folder Stacks.


Sorry missed the referenced post before. What @kmaster said.


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## luke_7 (Sep 25, 2017)

Only logic pro x here with full orchestral template plus full audio mix/production works great.


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