# Watch out for Windows 10!



## Lawson. (Feb 3, 2016)

Apparently previous versions of Windows automatically download Windows 10 now.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/comput...ill-download-automatically-to-many-computers/

That being said, my PC is still on Windows 7 and am not sure if I should upgrade. Any thoughts?


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## JohnG (Feb 3, 2016)

I have updated most of my PCs to 10 but only because I was having problems I couldn't solve any other way. I'm keeping my one computer on 7 indefinitely because it doesn't go on the internet and doesn't need upgrading to run Kontakt. And it is running fine. The other three each had different problems or constraints (memory) that I had to solve by going to 10.

So I think the short answer is: upgrade if you have to. 

Maybe, someday in the future, there's a piece of software that won't run on 7 but will in Windows 10 or, as in my own case, if you're having problems with an older OS. Eventually, MSFT will stop supporting Windows 7 but I haven't seen an announcement to that effect.

Otherwise I don't see a reason to do it.


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## EastWest Lurker (Feb 3, 2016)

My understanding is however that the free Windows 10 update will not be the pro version so you would go from Win 7 Pro to Win 10 home and that there is no real advantage if all you are doing is using your PC like a better Roland JV-5080, like I am.

Is that correct?


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## wcreed51 (Feb 3, 2016)

I believe that pro upgrades to pro, but haven't done it yet, so can't confirm.


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## lucor (Feb 3, 2016)

EastWest Lurker said:


> My understanding is however that the free Windows 10 update will not be the pro version so you would go from Win 7 Pro to Win 10 home and that there is no real advantage if all you are doing is using your PC like a better Roland JV-5080, like I am.
> 
> Is that correct?


No, the W10 version should depend on your current version of W7. If you have W7 Professional or Ultimate, you should get W10 Pro (which is kind of essential, if you don't want arbitrary updates to shut down your computer in the middle of a project). I did a quick upgrade to W10 before I reinstalled my OS and got W10 Pro (I have W7 Pro), so it seems to be working.
Back to Windows 7 now though. I don't see any reason to upgrade yet, especially since there are still quite a lot of issues with Cubase and W10 from what I hear.


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## chillbot (Feb 3, 2016)

EastWest Lurker said:


> My understanding is however that the free Windows 10 update will not be the pro version so you would go from Win 7 Pro to Win 10 home and that there is no real advantage if all you are doing is using your PC like a better Roland JV-5080, like I am.
> 
> Is that correct?



That is incorrect. JV-1080, JV-2080, XV-3080, XV-5080. 

(I joke but I held on to my JV-1080 far too long... I will never give up my XV-5080, NEVER!!)


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## d.healey (Feb 3, 2016)

Yes pro/ultimate updates to pro, I've been running it since it came out last July


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## Jason_D (Feb 3, 2016)

Windows has two lifecycles, mainstream and extended. Mainstream is 5 years and extended is 10 years. If you want constant mainstream support you need to upgrade every five years. The timetable starts at the release of the Windows version, not at the time you start using it. Mainstream support for Windows 10 ends in 2020 and Windows 8 in 2018.


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## d.healey (Feb 3, 2016)

Jason_D said:


> Windows has two lifecycles, mainstream and extended. Mainstream is 5 years and extended is 10 years. If you want constant mainstream support you need to upgrade every five years. The timetable starts at the release of the Windows version, not at the time you start using it. Mainstream support for Windows 10 ends in 2020 and Windows 8 in 2018.


Windows 10 is a little different since they aren't planning on releasing new "versions" of Windows anymore, they say they're just going to keep adding updates to Win10 - or do you have more up to date info?


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## Jason_D (Feb 3, 2016)

Here is some info. 
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle

I don't know what the future holds for newer versions of Windows.


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## chimuelo (Feb 3, 2016)

After Skylake Intel CPUs will not be supported by Windows 7 or 8.
These folks make more money and control the game better when they work together.

I actually had a nice LAN free install on 10 and only needed to register with Micro$oft.
As soon as I did my DAW became a slot machine.
Can't even power down during "upgrade" have to unplug the son of a bitch.....


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## Pietro (Feb 3, 2016)

I upgraded a couple of months ago, and I'm happy with it. I see absolutely no reason to go back. I like the looks and feel of 10. I upgraded my gaming rig first, then after a month or so - my workstation.

Only the mail app sucks - can't import your whole message archive from Windows Live Mail and you either stick with WLM (works fine on W10) or pay for Office 365 (and migrate to Outlook).

Only thing to mention is, I had problems installing the update at first. After first reboot, it turned black screen (no cursor). Force reboot reverted to W7 instantly and working perfectly as before. I fixed the issue by unplugging all but the OS drive. Then it all went smoothly.

- Piotr


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## madbulk (Feb 3, 2016)

Will anything break? It's a VEPRO box for me. Every startup I get yelled at to upgrade. I don't need an upgrade, like Jay, it's a ROMpler. If I can upgrade, and everything will just go on working but the desktop will look a little different, I can get with that.


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## kitekrazy (Feb 3, 2016)

Just think with the evolving OS Windows users can have the same experience as Mac users with El Capitan. We'll get emails from vendors warning not to upgrade the latest MS build. I don't like the idea of having to download and install via the MS crApp store.


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## Carles (Feb 3, 2016)

No problems here (Cubase, VEPro, Play, Kontakt, etc. all running fine). Quicker start up and some (visual) space saving as the windows have a thinner border (practically none).


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## Wes Antczak (Feb 3, 2016)

No problem at all on Win10 here. Everything runs even better than it did on the older versions. Also, I was pleasantly surprised watching an interview with one of the developers before the holidays. Not only does he seem to know a lot about music applications but indeed he even had a modular synthesizer (as well as some other keyboards) in the background. The interview was from his home studio. 

I don't know what you mean about having to "download and install via the MS crApp store"? All of my applications are installed as they were in the past and nothing is coming from some app store. 

Anyway, no issues on this end. So far, I'm very happy and everything works fine.


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## Øivind (Feb 4, 2016)

No issues on Win10 here either, cubase, vepro etc. works like a charm. Just set upgrades to schedule, so it doesn't reboot so quickly without your consent ^^ And if you are on Pro, defering upgrades should help on uptime.


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## MrVoice (Feb 4, 2016)

I uppgraded about 3 month ago and the small issues I had was solved in no time.
However I got curious, I have Win10 Home. What is the benefit of changing to PRO when using the PC mostly as a DAW?

/Nick


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## JohnG (Feb 4, 2016)

MrVoice said:


> What is the benefit of changing to PRO when using the PC mostly as a DAW?



Not sure there is a benefit to Pro if you are not hooked to the internet. There was a rumour out there that you could only turn off updates in the Pro version. I turned it off on my PCs because I rarely / never take them online. If you are online with that computer, disabling updates could cause problems, of course.


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## Michael K. Bain (Feb 4, 2016)

Thanks for the heads up! I changed my Windows Update setting


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## kitekrazy (Feb 4, 2016)

MrVoice said:


> I uppgraded about 3 month ago and the small issues I had was solved in no time.
> However I got curious, I have Win10 Home. What is the benefit of changing to PRO when using the PC mostly as a DAW?
> 
> /Nick



Home has a 16GB RAM limit.


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## vrocko (Feb 4, 2016)

W10 home I believe supports 128GB's.


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## JE Martinsen (Feb 5, 2016)

It is correct that W10 Home supports 128 GB RAM, so that wouldn't be an issue for quite a while I believe. I have W7 Home Premium and I'm about to build a new DAW PC so I might as well take their offer and upgrade to W10 (Home), but it's also true that you can't turn off updates in W10 Home afaik. I don't (and will not) have my DAW computer connected to the internet, so will this be a problem with W10 Home probably trying to connect to update every now and then? Wouldn't it be possible to just disable the Windows Update service, stopping it from running at all? Oh Microsoft..


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## chimuelo (Feb 5, 2016)

I just have finished my 1st Windows 10 build from using a Pro OEM DVD.
Amazingly easy and then did the online upgrade.
Much easier than thier free or home installs.
It cost 129 but saved me endless hours of bull shit.
First build where I used an NVMe SSD M.2 for the OS+Apps.
Finally after a total of 4 builds for various tasked PCs a huge sigh of relief.

The other 3 nightmares had a bright side though.
By time I finished those multi hour cave man smacking a CRT Monitor episodes I memorized thier Activation Key Codes.


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## ModalRealist (Feb 5, 2016)

I upgraded to W10 a week ago, and I have to say I'm really digging it. (Moreso after I read up on how to turn off Microsoft's All-Seeing Eye.) The thing I like most is the new design of the windows themselves. The big border on floating windows has gone entirely, which means that floating windows in Cubase are now smaller but just as visible (e.g. the VST instruments rack, or plugin windows). My PC is also definitely faster. I've had no problems at all with software, musical or otherwise.


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## kitekrazy (Feb 5, 2016)

vrocko said:


> W10 home I believe supports 128GB's.



I looked it up. Nice that they did that.


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## kitekrazy (Feb 5, 2016)

ModalRealist said:


> I upgraded to W10 a week ago, and I have to say I'm really digging it. (Moreso after I read up on how to turn off Microsoft's All-Seeing Eye.) The thing I like most is the new design of the windows themselves. The big border on floating windows has gone entirely, which means that floating windows in Cubase are now smaller but just as visible (e.g. the VST instruments rack, or plugin windows). My PC is also definitely faster. I've had no problems at all with software, musical or otherwise.



Most of the spying is to make Cortana more effective. I can't stand Cortana and it is disabled.


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## kitekrazy (Feb 5, 2016)

chimuelo said:


> I just have finished my 1st Windows 10 build from using a Pro OEM DVD.
> Amazingly easy and then did the online upgrade.
> Much easier than thier free or home installs.
> It cost 129 but saved me endless hours of bull shit.
> ...



No need for activation codes. They are loaded in the MS Cloud. If you change out the processor or motherboard you will be forking over for another license. I was thinking of buying a W8.1 retail license since if I can get one legit and cheap. 

Did you do a clean install or in place upgrade?


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## Vin (Feb 5, 2016)

I won't update my Windows 7 as long as my software works well. If it ain't broke...


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## JohnG (Feb 5, 2016)

kitekrazy said:


> I can't stand Cortana and it is disabled.



How???


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## RiffWraith (Feb 5, 2016)

Vin said:


> I won't update my Windows 7 as long as my software works well. If it ain't broke...



Same here. For now.

But at some point, an upgrade is going to be a necessity. At some point, NI is going to come out with a version of Kontakt that will not install on W7, and there will be a lib that you and I want that was made using that Kontakt version. With no backwards Kontakt compatibility, upgrading Windows will be the only way to get to use that lib.

Cheers.


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## chillbot (Feb 5, 2016)

RiffWraith said:


> Same here. For now.
> 
> But at some point, an upgrade is going to be a necessity. At some point, NI is going to come out with a version of Kontakt that will not install on W7, and there will be a lib that you and I want that was made using that Kontakt version. With no backwards Kontakt compatibility, upgrading Windows will be the only way to get to use that lib.
> 
> Cheers.



This is exactly what happened to me. Had such a nice perfectly usable stable and computer... but there was that ONE kontakt library I needed (plus many more coming I'm sure)... had to upgrade kontakt... which meant upgrading my OS... which meant upgrading my entire COMPUTER not to mention jump from Sonar 8.5 to X3. Funny how one little library creates a snowball effect. I was not happy. But in the end I find myself back in the exact same place, with a nice perfectly usable and stable computer. And I will again hold out for as long as I can. Next I guess I'll be jumping to Sonar Platinum which I'm not too excited about.


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## Michael K. Bain (Feb 5, 2016)

JohnG said:


> How???


Here, along with other things to do to stop Microsoft's snooping: http://www.techrepublic.com/article...y-default-heres-how-you-can-protect-yourself/


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## chimuelo (Feb 5, 2016)

Guys they got you.
A well to do friend of mine has a presigious Law Firm, PR Firm to protect his multi million dollar intellectual property rights, they get to read his EULAs and file briefs.
If you are online period, you have a choice to buy special services for protection, create your own cloud, and pay IT Pros to protect your privacy, if not, they are snooping since you use thier software and agreed to the EULAs.
By disabling snooping you simply tell them to stop reminding you that you're being stalked legally.

Meanwhile back at the Ranch......

Clean install, built from scratch totally, my very first.
I spent weeks trying different components, learning testing....
My DAWg Hunts.

OS+Apps on an NVMe with an Intel 400gb NVMe + 2 x 110k iops SATA III SSDs is insanely fast.
Settled for a water cooled 6700k @ 4.6ghz.

Theres nothing I cant do with this powerhouse.
Couldnt get it to work in a 1U ATX so the water cooled gamer rig was the final build.

Windows 10 works better at burning in settings from shut downs > then rebooting.
Just using restart leaves out certain tweaks.

Below, read closely.
Great reason to get rid of "defeneder."




jpg images


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## Jason_D (Feb 6, 2016)

Here's what I do for any unwanted app,

Open up the task manager, go to more details, then the processes tab. The unwanted app is in there running, right click on the process and go to open file location. Find the EXE and rename it the same name but with a .bin at the end. When windows tries to run the usual process, it can't because it is renamed.


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## chimuelo (Feb 6, 2016)

I like that idea.
Is that working in Windows 10 w/o conflicts?


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## kitekrazy (Feb 6, 2016)

Unless something has changed you can have defender exclude files to scan. Defender is no match for Malwarebytes free edition. Spybot can be overkill. Most of us don't get viruses but malware. BTW is it possible to remove Defender?


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## Jason_D (Feb 6, 2016)

I have done this in windows 10 with no problems. If there is a conflict, you can go back and delete the .bin ending.


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## chimuelo (Feb 6, 2016)

Jason_D said:


> Here's what I do for any unwanted app,
> 
> Open up the task manager, go to more details, then the processes tab. The unwanted app is in there running, right click on the process and go to open file location. Find the EXE and rename it the same name but with a .bin at the end. When windows tries to run the usual process, it can't because it is renamed.



Just curious if there is an explanation of said processes getting binned?
Some are self explanatory, but the hoggy ones have names that when I google cannot find.
Maybe because they're renamed since 8.1 or so new theres little mention.

Thanks


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## Jason_D (Feb 6, 2016)

Running Latency Mon and checking the task manager should give you a good idea on what to bin. The task manager at least separates windows processes from the rest, so that's a good start. There might be some services that need to be stopped as well, but that can get intense.

You can stop Windows Defender, just hit this button.


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## Jason_D (Feb 6, 2016)

I suppose you could find the defender EXE and bin that as well. It looks like it's called Antimalware Service Executable, which reveals an EXE called MSASCui.


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## chimuelo (Feb 7, 2016)

Most helpful, mucho gracious.
I dont have any issues on this latest build but was shocked to see all of the extra gunk.
Windows 10 "repaired" the PC upon rebooting, not right away but the next morning.
Was surpised how well this works.
And its not the resources used in the background that bothers me but rather the extra steps taken by Bidule and Scope to work around the mine gield of useless stuff.

Great tips...


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## JohnG (Feb 7, 2016)

chimuelo said:


> OS+Apps on an NVMe with an Intel 400gb NVMe + 2 x 110k iops SATA III SSDs is insanely fast.
> Settled for a water cooled 6700k @ 4.6ghz



Hi chimuelo -- why are you putting OS on the NVMe? I assumed fastest access would be from that, so you'd put samples on it? And assume an ASUS mobo?


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## chimuelo (Feb 7, 2016)

I buy lots of 10 so I get better prices and can resell 20 bucks less on ebay or Amazon.
With the Samsung 950s I kept all of them. Love these little speed demons.
Thought I'd experiment as eventually I want a Xeon 1285 laptop with Thunderbolt for my DSP Rack.
Since 950s are standard Lenovo kit thought I'd load one up with everything and test them out.
260,000 random reads is wasted on Kontakt.
So I am trying Kontakt OS+apps PianoTeq Pro. Add Omnisphere Zebra2HZ, and PLAY today.

All based on a 4.6ghz CPU.

But this is fun.
Got ASRock Z170
Supermicro Z170/H170

The Supermicro boards are extreme 24/7 Resin based PCB with Ceramic and Titanium caps.
Their BIOS is incredible and has hardware assisted design.
So primitive though.
Looks like DOS Mono chrome CRT shit.


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## JohnG (Feb 7, 2016)

chimuelo said:


> So primitive though.
> Looks like DOS Mono chrome CRT shit.



lols

I'm getting Gear Envy reading your parts list...


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## JohnG (Feb 7, 2016)

This doesn't work for long. It turns itself back on pretty fast.






Jason_D said:


> Running Latency Mon and checking the task manager should give you a good idea on what to bin. The task manager at least separates windows processes from the rest, so that's a good start. There might be some services that need to be stopped as well, but that can get intense.
> 
> You can stop Windows Defender, just hit this button.


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## chimuelo (Feb 7, 2016)

Are you offline when the self repairs occur?
I don't really have any issues with these background services so it's a luxury tweak for me.
I'll check them out again when I'm done DAW'ing around.
I learned to write lists of everything.

Windows updates and "repairs" itself for days until finished.
Each little blue screen has the names of the files causing problems.
Like Ocx000021a or Interupt RequestL_not less or more (happens when disabling USB Serial COMM LAN2) after disabling unnecessary ports using resources and instruction loops.

Love this geeky stuff though.


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## chimuelo (Feb 7, 2016)

JG you'd love the Supermicro C7H170 mATX using max RAM and an i5 @ 4.3ghz for a PLAY Slave.
Only 6mb cache but with an Intel 750 with OS+Apps and HS it's a beast.

The i5s can run at 80% for hours with the 240mm water cooled CPU Kit.
The motherboard is an incredibly designed hardware solution.
It has zero fluctuation in voltage.
Each trace never overshoot or under supplies proper voltage.

70 to 100 millivolts doesn't sound like much but really screws up stability when overclocking.
Rock solid on Supermicros.

I love their boards.
Starring at the mean green Z170 in awe right now.
That board installed so easily and accepted Windows 10 as if it were a reference board.

Cheerz


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## JohnG (Feb 7, 2016)

You're just making me more envious -- I can't take it!!

Luckily, I bet $150,000 on the Broncos, so I can afford anything after today...


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Feb 7, 2016)

JohnG said:


> You're just making me more envious -- I can't take it!!
> 
> Luckily, I bet $150,000 on the Broncos, so I can afford anything after today...



That may be a good bet. The Panthers may be overconfident and blow it, but they only exhibited that behavior one time during the season and may have learned their lesson. Good luck with that. I mean that, even though I was Carolina born. 

Back to the topic at hand. I've been using Windows 10 since its release with no problems. I turned off all of the ET phone home stuff. Does it offer anything for DAW users over Windows 7? Nope. I am a programmer and use Visual Studio so it was a must upgrade for me, but my DAW, Kontakt, Play, UVI and all of the VST plugins work fine, just like in Windows 7. For people who use the PC only for music, there is no reason to upgrade until software that you use will not work anymore or Microsoft quits supporting Windows 7 with security updates.


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## wcreed51 (Feb 7, 2016)

I discovered I got screwed back when I upgraded from Win8 Pro to 8.1. It seems I ended up with the "core" edition, which only gets me Win10 Home. Oy...


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Feb 7, 2016)

wcreed51 said:


> I discovered I got screwed back when I upgraded from Win8 Pro to 8.1. It seems I ended up with the "core" edition, which only gets me Win10 Home. Oy...



Oy veh and ouch Mr. Creed! I don't have an answer for that.


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## Jason_D (Feb 7, 2016)

The 950 runs and looks great. I got faster writes on the SM951 though, weird.


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## JE Martinsen (Feb 8, 2016)

A couple of questions :

1. Besides being able to defer updates, what features in Windows 10 Pro would be useful or even essential for a DAW computer? I'm not planning on having the DAW PC connected unless it's absolutely necessary for software updates/activations etc. It's a stationary computer, so I don't think encryption is as important as it would be for a laptop. And the limit of 128 GB RAM on Windows Home isn't really an issue for me. Yet.

2. If it is possible to turn of the update nagging in Windows 10 Home using one or more of the methods mentioned, and I wouldn't need any of the extras in Pro, wouldn't the Home version be just fine? But that depends my above question of course.

I'm going to upgrade from Windows Home Premium, doing a fresh installation on a brand new DAW PC and upgrading from that. So if I would indeed need Windows 10 Pro I would have to buy a Pro license ($99) after activation of Windows 10 Home.

I remember stripping down Windows XP to the bare essentials, disabling and uninstalling everything that wasn't necessary for DAW work. I barely kept my sanity in the process, but XP "Skeleton Edition" served me quite well for a long time. With Windows 7 (Home Premium) it hasn't been that much of an issue, but I still prefer to run an OS that contains just what I need and not much more. I'm looking forward to giving Windows 10 Home/Pro a go though, as it seems many DAW users are quite happy with it!


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## synthetic (Feb 8, 2016)

Has anyone seen performance differences in Windows 10? Better/worse/same? I'm just using them as sample farms so I don't care what OS is on there as long as they run well.


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## kitekrazy (Feb 8, 2016)

Jason_D said:


> Running Latency Mon and checking the task manager should give you a good idea on what to bin. The task manager at least separates windows processes from the rest, so that's a good start. There might be some services that need to be stopped as well, but that can get intense.
> 
> You can stop Windows Defender, just hit this button.



Is Windows Defender is a resource hog? MSE wasn't and that's why I use it.


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## Jason_D (Feb 8, 2016)

It's not a big deal, not compared to Nvidia backend. It's only one process that takes up about 80MB of RAM. I have the Latency Mon data somewhere but I can't find it. I just went through all sorts of different antimalware/virus apps and ended up going back to defender.


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## chimuelo (Feb 8, 2016)

I have come to the conclusion Windows 10 has no advantages over 7 exceot for NVMe.
Its an attempt to keep your PC online and I advise not to unless you take a few precautions.

Anyone notice after installing, eveything is fine until you go offline and try to connect again..?
The PC says we are going to fix something and how can this be done if not connected..?

I hate Windiws 10.
I noticed more than once when I disconnected by pulling out my LAN Cable the PC would start scanning as the activy monitors I use show HDD activity when I am using the DSP Rack and external gear, no sample streaming or DAW even loaded....


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## tokatila (Feb 9, 2016)

Love windows Hello with my laptop. It recognizes my ug(g)ly mug with classes, on a bad hair day (always) or in very little lightning.

Defer upgrades is also very nice, I'm just taking a plunge with a November update.

Don't know if there is any reason to upgrade from Windows 7 but from 8/8.1 most definitely. Boot times are faster; everything feels snappier. Search bar is much more useful. Whole system feels more polished.


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## chimuelo (Feb 10, 2016)

Actually had an excellent Windows 10 Day.
I have a list of stuff to share from a guy who does DAWs for the stars, like Wild Bill Goldstein, etc.
But not until I see a few more days of use.

But to me success is going from failure, to failure over and over and not losing enthusiasm....
ANkyu.

Here's the workflow that isn't a biggie but a clean screen now, and only the little Windows Logo at the bottom gives me important customized workflow access. Task Manager gets a spot on the Taskbar though.
Other than that the window is as clean as a lean dick dog.

I disabled Windows Defender, Cortana, and can disable Avira, Spybot Search & Destroy, Spyware Blaster whenever I click on them and do my tweak.

Scope XITE-1 loads my entire mixing, external hardware FX, synths, DSP Plugs all first, then a click on Bidule loads all Native stuff.
Screensets are a single # push on my QWERTY.


Sweetness....




how to take a screen shot


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## bjderganc (Feb 10, 2016)

chimuelo said:


> I buy lots of 10 so I get better prices and can resell 20 bucks less on ebay or Amazon.
> With the Samsung 950s I kept all of them. Love these little speed demons.
> Thought I'd experiment as eventually I want a Xeon 1285 laptop with Thunderbolt for my DSP Rack.
> Since 950s are standard Lenovo kit thought I'd load one up with everything and test them out.
> ...



I assume this is a 5930k/5820k? How many tracks are you able to get with the synths? Do single instances in a small project ever glitch?


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## bjderganc (Feb 10, 2016)

Re: Windows Defender - For anyone looking for a good anti-virus solution, Webroot is fantastic. It uses minimal CPU and has had no effect on DPC latency, in my experience.


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## chimuelo (Feb 11, 2016)

It's the rig in my signature.
64 samples / 48k / @ 1.2 msec. Duplexed
No crackles because I use an XITE-1 DSP Rack with 18 x SHARC ADSP-21369 Audio Chips.
They don't rely on Micro$oft or Window$ for anything other than a few lines of code.

Currently use 23GBs out of 64GBs.
64 Kontakt Instruments
2 x PLAY Instances
Zebra2 HZ Dual Diva Filters max poly
Omnisphere 2.1 Dual Live Mode max poly
PianoTeq Pro 5.5 128 Voices
Max DSP Sub Host w/ 32 tracks
4 x u-He Satin 1.5 Instances for Tape Flange/Tape Delay/Buss Compression and Saturation
90 channels of real time audio.


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