# New breath controller concept



## Hornberg Research (Apr 5, 2014)

Hi all together we are Martin Raschke and Mick Baumeister the founders of Hornberg Research. Hornberg Research is a small and young company in the south of Germany.

Mick is a professional film composer. He is working for more than 30 years for the German Film- and TV-Providers. When the BC3 disappears from the market he begged me to develop a new breath controller because he needs a replacement to continue his work.

Therefore the hb1 was mainly developed to satisfy the needs of people that use a breath controller as one of their daily tools.

The goal was to develop a stable, durable and high flexible tool that gives your work more expression and makes your daily work more easy and intuitive.

This is why we have developed the *hb1 MIDI Breath Station*:

The hb1 MIDI Breath Station enables you to regulate any electronic instrument or peripheral device with MIDI or USB-port. The special wooden mouth piece, a precision sensor and the combination of a MIDI-merger, an integrated MIDI-interface and the innovative parameters create the premise for a high precision and highly sensitive performance of your ideas, in studio or live. Seven of the nine parameters allow an adaption of various details and impulses in your music. For instance, the adjustable “Release” allows breathing in without a gap in the sound. The “Dynamic Attack” parameter allows for sensitive sound control, even in the finest pianissimo. Real-time data reduction, Inversion and Limitation of the signal and, of course, Drive and Offset are all a part of the setting options. Each parameter can be saved in 25 presets. Additionally, the breath-data is displayed constantly on the Breath-Value Display. 
The hb1 approach is innovative and progresses far beyond the possibilities of a common breath controller. Through the integration of standard MIDI and USB-ports, the hb1 functions with or without a computer. 

The hb1 is hand-crafted in Germany with great attention to detail as well as with a focus on the aspect of sustainability.

As we think the hb1 gives you the freedom and the possibility to realize your inspiration.

There is a lot of fun working with the hb1 because it let you do what you really want to do. 



We are looking forward to your feedback. 

martin and mick from Hornberg Research

http://www.hornberg-research.de


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## mathis (Apr 5, 2014)

supercool but a bit pricey...


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## JimVMusic (Apr 5, 2014)

Looks really great! I can't seem to find the price. How much is it in US dollars? I was wondering how one could easily use that mouth piece hands free?

EDIT: I found the price. It does look like a high quality, well thought out, piece of gear but I'm afraid it might be a challenge to justify that amount of money for it. Haven't tried it out though, so hard to say.


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## ch4rles (Apr 5, 2014)

Hornberg Research @ Sat Apr 05 said:


> .
> The hb1 approach is innovative and progresses far beyond the possibilities of a common breath controller. Through the integration of standard MIDI and USB-ports, the hb1 functions with or without a computer.
> 
> We are looking forward to your feedback.
> ...



Your device looks nice and luxorious. Too luxurious, perhaps! 890 euro is way too expensive for my pockets, and I suspect for most people it would be the same.

Consider also that a device with equivalent features (both MIDI and USB) is available for 150 euro, and a USB only device (which I own and am very happy with) for 100 euro.

Anyway, good luck and keep up the good work.


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## germancomponist (Apr 5, 2014)

JimVMusic @ Sat Apr 05 said:


> Looks really great! I can't seem to find the price. How much is it in US dollars? I was wondering how one could easily use that mouth piece hands free?



890,00 EUR :mrgreen: 

No joke!


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## artsoundz (Apr 5, 2014)

Right.$1200.00+
Maybe this is good time for Martin and Mick to explain what the practical difference is between a $100.00 BC and a $1200.00 BC.


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## rayinstirling (Apr 5, 2014)

Makes the Akai EWI seem cheap


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## minimidi (Apr 5, 2014)

artsoundz @ Sat Apr 05 said:


> Right.$1200.00+
> Maybe this is good time for Martin and Mick to explain what the practical difference is between a $100.00 BC and a $1200.00 BC.



It must be the wood from the wild service tree...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 5, 2014)

Or between our $18 one (Blowfinger for iPad) and others. But that looks like a fabulous instrument.

Congratulations, Hornberg.


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## d.healey (Apr 5, 2014)

I just bought the TecControl one, yours looks good but as others have said, why the high price tag?


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## Hornberg Research (Apr 5, 2014)

Thank all of you very much for your response. We are very happy to see so much people are interested in the new hb1 Breath Station.

Of course we know about the price of the hb1. But let us give some explanation.

The hb1 is not a simple breath controller, that's why we call it Breath Station. 
It is a combination of a breath sensor, a breath-data to MIDI converter, a MIDI-Merger and a MIDI-USB interface.

There are a some totally new features that are not available for any breath controller yet and are applied for patent.
Let us give a short explanation of the most important:

Attack allows you to control the transient response to your breath

Release gives you the posibility to realize a smooth transition when the breath is decreasing.
This is very helpfull to avoid a gap when drawing breath.

The smart data reduction allows you to minimize the output data of the hb1, without losing precision.
Because the hb1 has a very low latency of around 1ms it can produce a high amount of data. 
If the MIDI-bus have to be shared with other Instruments, this data reduction can be very helpfull to avoid overloading the MIDI-Bus.

There are some more features that should not be described here. Please look above or visit our web-page http://www.hornberg-research.de to see the whole description.

Let us say some words about the motivation to develope the hb1:
Mick worked with the BC3 for a long time. Because there was no alternative he learned to live with all the weaknesses of it.
The permanent output signal and the instable gain and offset of the BC3 sometimes drove him crazy and there was a lot of rework to do after the breath controller track was recorded.

Therefore, after the production of the BC3 was stopped and Micks last BC3 was broken, (he has demaged about 10 in the last 20 years) we
decided to develope a completely new breath controller that did not have the weaknesses of the BC3 and has some new and usefull features.

The hb1 is the result of this work. Because we don't want to have any compromise in functionality and durability we thought a lot about the right materials and the best construction.
So the price was not the most important criteria for the developement and admittedly with nearly €900 it is not cheap. 

But think, what you get.
You get a very usefull and durable tool that can attend and ease your work for many years (long live MIDI) hand crafted of the best and natural materials (no plastics).
There is a high precision mouthpice made of the famous wood of the wild service tree and stainless steel. 

The hb1 is useable in live- and studio situations without any aditional software or equipment.
Because of the high stability and the new parameters Attack and Release the rework of the recorded controller data is mostly not necessary.

Let us make a comparison:
You can buy a plier for €3 and you can buy a plier for €30 or more. If you just want to tighten a screw some times the cheap one may be good enough. But if you are a craftsman and you have to count on your tools you will not buy the cheap one. 

If you use the hb1 you will feel the difference.


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## Hornberg Research (Apr 5, 2014)

minimidi @ Sat 05 Apr said:


> artsoundz @ Sat Apr 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Right.$1200.00+
> ...




Why do we use the wood of the wild service tree?

One of the first questions we had to answer when we started with the developement of the hb1 was the construction of the mouth piece.
We have tried a lot of different materials in different shapes. We tried silicone, nylon and other synthetic materials. But we were not satisfied with the feeling of this materials when you have to have it in your mouth for a longer time. Therefore we tried different kinds of wood that are used for the creation of flutes. We tried the wood of pear, cherry, apple and some other but we didn't want to use tropical timber.
Wood was much better then syntetic materials. There was a better feeling for the tongue and the lips because the surface is a little rough and the wood can absorb some saliva.
Among the different kind of wood, that we tried, the wood of the wild service tree gets the best natural feeling and less salivation.
Thats why we decided to create the mouth piece from the wood of the wild service tree. Unfortunately this wood is realy expensive.


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## Mahlon (Apr 5, 2014)

Beautiful design. And an interesting product. Look forward to hearing more about it.

Mahlon


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## artsoundz (Apr 5, 2014)

Thanks, Hornberg, for responding so quickly and thoroughly. Your BC really is intriguing and I'm hoping you will consider doing a video or two highlighting the key points you made. 
I have no doubt the price reflects the work you put into this. It really looks like the Cadillac (Rolls Royce?) of Breath Controllers. I'm just unclear if the points you make justify the price, although, in our world, those kinds of subtleties can make all the difference and many would pay a premium for ease of use.


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## minimidi (Apr 6, 2014)

Hornberg Research @ Sat Apr 05 said:


> minimidi @ Sat 05 Apr said:
> 
> 
> > It must be the wood from the wild service tree...
> ...



Fantastic wood for sure! I wonder how many members of the Royal household are musicians... But then the question becomes, why did you chose stainless steel instead of gold?

http://rowanswhitebeamsandservicetrees. ... orbus.html


> One remarkable piece of information was sent to me by Henry Green who was a friend of the celebrated Enfield gardener E.A. Bowles. He once showed Bowles a branch of wild service and was told that the tree used to be common in Epping Forest where it was planted to provide timber from which the furniture for the Royal household was made.


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## lucky909091 (Apr 6, 2014)

My two cent: 
incredible quality and Made in Germany.


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## mk282 (Apr 6, 2014)

Way too expensive.


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## Hornberg Research (Apr 6, 2014)

minimidi @ Sun 06 Apr said:


> Hornberg Research @ Sat Apr 05 said:
> 
> 
> > minimidi @ Sat 05 Apr said:
> ...



Hi! If you are realy interested in, the hb1 Breath Station is available in gold also.


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## ch4rles (Apr 6, 2014)

Hornberg Research @ Sun Apr 06 said:


> Hi! If you are realy interested in, the hb1 Breath Station is available in gold also.



That could be a possible way of justifying your hideously expensive price tag. Just make sure it's solid gold, not just plated.


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## Hornberg Research (Apr 6, 2014)

artsoundz @ Sun 06 Apr said:


> Thanks, Hornberg, for responding so quickly and thoroughly. Your BC really is intriguing and I'm hoping you will consider doing a video or two highlighting the key points you made.
> I have no doubt the price reflects the work you put into this. It really looks like the Cadillac (Rolls Royce?) of Breath Controllers. I'm just unclear if the points you make justify the price, although, in our world, those kinds of subtleties can make all the difference and many would pay a premium for ease of use.



Mick is in a production in the moment. His work will be finished in the middle of the next week. So we will try to create our first video about the hb1 until 14th of April. We hope the differences between the hb1 Breath Station and a normal breath controller can be made more clear with this video.
We will post a link here, as soon as the video is available..


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## rgames (Apr 6, 2014)

Hornberg Research @ Sat Apr 05 said:


> One of the first questions we had to answer when we started with the developement of the hb1 was the construction of the mouth piece.
> We have tried a lot of different materials in different shapes. We tried silicone, nylon and other synthetic materials. But we were not satisfied with the feeling of this materials when you have to have it in your mouth for a longer time. Therefore we tried different kinds of wood that are used for the creation of flutes. We tried the wood of pear, cherry, apple and some other but we didn't want to use tropical timber.
> Wood was much better then syntetic materials. There was a better feeling for the tongue and the lips because the surface is a little rough and the wood can absorb some saliva.
> Among the different kind of wood, that we tried, the wood of the wild service tree gets the best natural feeling and less salivation.
> Thats why we decided to create the mouth piece from the wood of the wild service tree. Unfortunately this wood is realy expensive.


I find this rationale very odd - there are thousands of wind players who play on mouthpieces all day long (including me). All of those mouthpieces are synthetic materials; none of them is made of wood...

If synthetic materials are good enough for the world's best wind players, and they're significantly cheaper, why not use them on your device?

rgames


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## Hornberg Research (Apr 7, 2014)

rgames @ Sun 06 Apr said:


> I find this rationale very odd - there are thousands of wind players who play on mouthpieces all day long (including me). All of those mouthpieces are synthetic materials; none of them is made of wood...
> 
> If synthetic materials are good enough for the world's best wind players, and they're significantly cheaper, why not use them on your device?
> 
> rgames



I think the main reason why all those wind players are using syntetical mouthpieces is, because there are no others available. 
Most mouthpieces are simple replicas of the mouthpiece of the BC3. The BC3 is what we all know and we know that it is usable. But is it realy the best choice? 

I don't know whether the new developed mouthpiece of the hb1 is the best for everybody. But I know that Mick who has used the BC3 for many many years was not realy happy with the mouthpiece of the BC3. Thats the reason, why we develop a new one, with a different shape and different material. Mick said to me that the new mouthpiece of the hb1 is much better to use and much more comfortable than the mouthpiece of the BC3 and I belive him. Since I'm not a wind player I can not realy decide. Unfortunately Mick is doing a production to day. I think he will give you a more detaild statement as soon as he has a little more time.


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## Leandro Gardini (Apr 7, 2014)

Your product looks good, but even with those innovative features it seems to be overpriced.
I still waiting for my Tec BC to arrive but even if it does not work (which i think it will) I, and many others, won't have any way to purchase yours.
Maybe you should take into consideration the difference of currencies values of the rest of the world and review you price in order to attend not only your country.


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## Daryl (Apr 7, 2014)

If something is good, the matter of price is a question of personal financial circumstances. If this new BC allowed me to play everything live (as I do) but get a better performance, so that I don't need to do multiple takes or edit, then the time saved would be worth the price to me.

D


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## jleckie (Apr 7, 2014)

Seems some are confused as to the price of Gold these days...


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## d.healey (Apr 7, 2014)

Daryl @ Mon Apr 07 said:


> If something is good, the matter of price is a question of personal financial circumstances.



What about if two things are equally good but the prices are different, you could no longer justify a high price tag because it is something good.


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## Daryl (Apr 7, 2014)

TotalComposure @ Mon Apr 07 said:


> Daryl @ Mon Apr 07 said:
> 
> 
> > If something is good, the matter of price is a question of personal financial circumstances.
> ...


Then other things come into play. Was the product made by people earning a reasonable living, or was it put together by child labour, for example.

D


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## Mr. Anxiety (Apr 7, 2014)

Hello Martin and Mick, 

Welcome to our somewhat dysfunctional family here at V.I. Control. Congratulations on releasing your new product. 

IMHO, a product like this can be an extremely important part of a composer or performer's set-up, and this importance will obviously be factored into what one will pay for such a device. People pay a lot of money for custom stuff, high quality audio gear, vintage synths, etc.

If one is to compare what we had available for Breath Control, and the current crop of devices on the market currently to your device, there is a big difference in price, no doubt. And this is why everyone is at odds with your pricing.

I've always wanted to get more into using a breath control for my sample based orchestral programming, and I own one of everything. None of these made we truly excited about using them in my daily composing endeavors.

Will I jump at purchasing one of your devices at the current price point, probably not, but others who find this tool absolutely necessary for their input device might consider it, if they can get beyond the cost.

If you want to really make your device a must have for the majority of composers who would utilize a breath controller, you probably need to look at all facets of your manufacturing and material costs and see if you can come up with cheaper solution or a "lite" version. Unless you do not need to sell that many.......

I wish you the best of luck with your company!

Mr A


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## ch4rles (Apr 12, 2014)

rgames @ Sun Apr 06 said:


> I find this rationale very odd - there are thousands of wind players who play on mouthpieces all day long (including me). All of those mouthpieces are synthetic materials; none of them is made of wood...
> 
> If synthetic materials are good enough for the world's best wind players, and they're significantly cheaper, why not use them on your device?
> 
> rgames



Yes I agree. In addition I think wood, being porous, is less hygienic than plastic. Think about smoking pipes: the mouthpiece is not wood... 

http://pipedia.org/wiki/Materials_and_Construction


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## chimuelo (Apr 12, 2014)

lucky909091 @ Sun Apr 06 said:


> My two cent:
> incredible quality and Made in Germany.



Totally agree with that. I never question German made/engineered products after using Scope DSP Cards, Scope XITE-1s, Solaris 96k hardware synth, BX Digital EQs and many other German made gear for years now.

It is an excellent product for a niche market.


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## Saxer (Apr 12, 2014)

yepp, expensive... but as far as i know myself i will get one sooner or later.


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## Hornberg Research (Apr 13, 2014)

ch4rles @ Sat 12 Apr said:


> rgames @ Sun Apr 06 said:
> 
> 
> > I find this rationale very odd - there are thousands of wind players who play on mouthpieces all day long (including me). All of those mouthpieces are synthetic materials; none of them is made of wood...
> ...




Please look at this!
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993 ... itute-show


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## artsoundz (Apr 13, 2014)

Hornberg Research @ Sun Apr 13 said:


> ch4rles @ Sat 12 Apr said:
> 
> 
> > rgames @ Sun Apr 06 said:
> ...



Uhhh...thats over 20 years old... Time marches on.....

http://culinaryarts.about.com/od/cuttin ... odplas.htm

Do not underestimate us savvy bastards!

Still wish I could afford your beast.


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## Hornberg Research (Apr 16, 2014)

Hi! The first of the announced videos, explaining the hb1 is available now. Please visit our homepage http://www.hornberg-research.de or follow this links.


hb1 MIDI Breath Station Features Part 1 http://youtu.be/go1iZXBh_Oc

hb1 MIDI Breath Station Trailer http://youtu.be/cSOJbqsM5No


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## rayinstirling (Apr 16, 2014)

Am I missing something here, isn't midi control still 0-127 steps?


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## pkm (Apr 16, 2014)

I think I get it now. This truly does seem better than the cheaper options to me. But if you were on Shark Tank, I betcha they would tell you that you need to cut costs to get the price down to be able to compete with your competition. The magic price point is probably somewhere around $299 USD. I don't think you'll get there, and for that reason, I'm out. 

Looks great, but I would love to see an option with a plastic mouthpiece and perhaps if you focused more on software control rather than hardware, you could get it to a more affordable price point.


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## organix (Apr 16, 2014)

It seems a very good product, made in high quality materials with some nice features. 

Has this device a lifetime warranty?

It's of cource understandable, that people will compare this one ($1200) with the very cheaper ($200) devices from TEC. Both are some kind of breath controllers.

Most people will use a breath controller in a DAW environment, so it's no problem in need some kind of software. 
Someting like attack control can be made with the adjustable breath curve with TEC.
Release is a very nice idea and a missing feature of the TEC.

I think the hb1 is more precise as the TEC controller.

The mouthpiece of wood looks great, but in my opinion a little bit to big. 

The TEC mouthpieces are not really special ones. It's more a standard plastic valve that you can get in a hardware store for about $1. How much does it cost to replace the mouthpiece on the hb1?

The hb1 seems a device for very professional use. If I could afford it, I would buy it. 

-Markus


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## Hornberg Research (Apr 17, 2014)

rayinstirling @ Wed 16 Apr said:


> Am I missing something here, isn't midi control still 0-127 steps?



Yes it is! ?? I did not understand your comment sorry.


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## ch4rles (Apr 17, 2014)

organix @ Thu Apr 17 said:


> I think the hb1 is more precise as the TEC controller.



What is your statement based on? Have you tried both? Or just based on price?

I have never tried the hb1 so I can't really say. But honestly I judge the precision of my TEControl BC as excellent. It never produces a 'staircase' effect - jumps in the MIDI signal - even at the most sensitive setting, where you can get to full scale by just pinching the tube. And it's responsive. I mean *really* responsive.


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## rayinstirling (Apr 17, 2014)

Hornberg Research @ Thu Apr 17 said:


> rayinstirling @ Wed 16 Apr said:
> 
> 
> > Am I missing something here, isn't midi control still 0-127 steps?
> ...



What I'm suggesting is:
The sensor converts the breath to one of 127 midi steps so any other effects are simply performed through code written to produce differing attack or release. These effects would work just as well with a mod wheel, expression pedal or fader. The whole concept is also heavily dependent on the definition of the sound source being controlled therefore, I do not think your product worth the money.

Just my opinion you understand.


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## ch4rles (Apr 17, 2014)

organix @ Thu Apr 17 said:


> The TEC mouthpieces are not really special ones. It's more a standard plastic valve that you can get in a hardware store for about $1.



I also have the TEControl optional headset, which costs just 30 Euro and has a really nice plastic mouthpiece, with integrated bleed valve. 

It's actually good that they sell it separately so you can also buy a spare if you want. I was glad I got it and I recommend it because in my experience it allows a much better flow control.


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## minimidi (Apr 17, 2014)

pkm @ Wed Apr 16 said:


> I think I get it now. This truly does seem better than the cheaper options to me. But if you were on Shark Tank, I betcha they would tell you that you need to cut costs to get the price down to be able to compete with your competition. The magic price point is probably somewhere around $299 USD. I don't think you'll get there, and for that reason, I'm out.
> 
> Looks great, but I would love to see an option with a plastic mouthpiece and perhaps if you focused more on software control rather than hardware, you could get it to a more affordable price point.



I don't understand why anyone would want to pay an arm and a leg for the showroom appearance and needless bells and whistles of the Hornberg breath station. Just my cheap opinion.


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## organix (Apr 17, 2014)

ch4rles @ 17th April said:


> organix @ Thu Apr 17 said:
> 
> 
> > I think the hb1 is more precise as the TEC controller.
> ...



No sorry, I haven't tried both so thats the reason why I'm only think so.

I own the TEC USB device and sometimes I have the feel it could be more precise in reaction of flow control. 

But yes, maybe because of the higher price I think they use more precise and better components on the hb1. 

But I'm not sure on this. No. 

The hb1 is 1000% higher on price as the TEC, so I think it must be more as only better materials or a release feature.


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## ch4rles (Apr 18, 2014)

organix @ Fri Apr 18 said:


> I own the TEC USB device and sometimes I have the feel it could be more precise in reaction of flow control.



If you haven't got it, get their headset. It allows much finer flow control than the mouthpieces that come by default with it. 



> But yes, maybe because of the higher price I think they use more precise and better components on the hb1.



Wishful thinking in my opinion... the only way to tell is testing it.


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## d.healey (Apr 18, 2014)

ch4rles @ 17th April said:


> The hb1 is 1000% higher on price as the TEC, so I think it must be more as only better materials or a release feature.



It's called prestige pricing, companies do this all the time. It's used a lot with make-up, cars, perfumes, clothing etc. The thinking is by setting a higher price it makes the everyday consumer believe that it is better quality - in some cases that might be true, but it doesn't guarantee it is.

In reality it's usually the same or a bit better than the competition, or offers something different but doesn't justify its high price tag and I think that is what we have here.

Ignoring the gimmicky wooden mouth piece the extra features offered by the hb1 do not justify a price tag 1000 times higher than the competition.

As others have said, those features could all be done with software rather than hardware and that would bring the price down - and could be made to work with any breath controller :wink: - hardware nearly always ties you to one manufacturer's products.


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## apessino (Apr 18, 2014)

TotalComposure @ Thu Apr 17 said:


> Ignoring the gimmicky wooden mouth piece the extra features offered by the hb1 do not justify a price tag 1000 times higher than the competition.



1000 times? :lol: Yeah, it's expensive... but last I checked it was not ~150 grand, was it?

Either way, the "release" idea seems cool, but as others have said it could be done quite easily with a little scripting as a feature for any CC input. I think Brian Wherry could add it to TransMIDIfier in a couple of hours... I hope he does! 8) 

As for the breath controller, I would seriously consider buying a version of it with the same hardware/software but a cheaper plastic/metal case and mouthpiece for around $400. 

I would love to support the developers but the product has to make sense as more than just a "luxury" item. Perhaps you can keep the Hb1 for those that want its high end construction and add an Hb2 at a more reasonable price point later on... got to broaden your appeal! 8)


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## d.healey (Apr 18, 2014)

apessino @ Fri Apr 18 said:


> 1000 times? :lol: Yeah, it's expensive... but last I checked it was not ~150 grand, was it?



Whooops, haha. I got confused between 1000% and 10 times higher - although that's not accurate it's more like 5 times the price of the TEControl :oops:


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## Saxer (Apr 18, 2014)

i personally don't like (and use) the headset of the TEC. the little plastic mouthpiece is ok but really not more than ok. a bit like aquarium accessories. but it's very playable.

question: is the air going through the Hornberg mouthpiece? the TEC (without the headset) just takes the pressure without any air flow.

and if so, is the Hornberg airflow adjustable?

i have a WX7 and a EWI windcontroller but i just don't use the EWI because there isn't enough air going through. i always feel like a blown up ballon when playing it. the airflow of the WX7 feels natural to me (as a wind player).


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## Hornberg Research (Apr 19, 2014)

Saxer @ Sat 19 Apr said:


> question: is the air going through the Hornberg mouthpiece? the TEC (without the headset) just takes the pressure without any air flow.
> 
> and if so, is the Hornberg airflow adjustable?




Hi, the hb1 has a high precision mouthpiece with a stageless adjustable air outlet. See the picture below. So you can control the airflow in a very wide range. For cleaning the mouthpiece the adjusting bolt is removeable.

In the picture the air outlet is shown in it's closed position.


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## Saxer (Apr 20, 2014)

looks really good. thanks for info!


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## muk (Apr 20, 2014)

Saxer there's a little valve (the yellow plastic piece) coming with the TEC that let's you regulate airflow. Certainly not as elegant as hornberg's solution, but it does it's job.

The hb1 looks like a genuinely nice piece of hardware. I like it when there are zero-compromise options available for certain tasks. Best possible materials, best built quality etc. no matter the price. Of course this will appeal to a smaller target group because of the high price, but it's nice to have the option.

As for functionality, I think it doesn't add much that couldn't be achieved with the TEC. But in one case your playing with a 120$ plastic piece, in the other with a 1000$ wild service tree stainless steel tube. The choice is yours.


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## Daryl (Apr 20, 2014)

The trouble with the BC that I've tried is that the outlet adjustment valve is always near the earpiece, which means that the more air you let out, the louder it is. It would be much better, IMO, if this valve could be as far away from my ears as possible.

D


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## maestro2be (Apr 20, 2014)

What is the delivery time for one of these units to the US?

Maestro2be


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## minimidi (Apr 21, 2014)

maestro2be @ Mon Apr 21 said:


> What is the delivery time for one of these units to the US?
> 
> Maestro2be



If you can afford the $1200+, you should also be able to pay a couple of hundred extra to have the supplier overnight it with FedEX...

This is also advisable to avoid the service tree wood getting contaminated by cheaper shipping.


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## JE Martinsen (Apr 22, 2014)

As has been mentioned a couple of times, I think it would be a good idea to offer a "light" version without the wild service tree used as a material. I'm curious about how much this super-exclusive wood raises the total cost of manufacturing. The wood is also used as side panels and on the pressure sensor unit, and I really cannot see why there would be any benefit by using the wild service tree as a material for those parts compared to cherry, pear or other cheaper tree materials. It makes absolutely no difference in terms of functionality of course, and probably not durability.

In regards to the mouthpiece, there may be several good reasons for using the particular material for that, as you mentioned. But I think this may also be a wildly differing preferance from one musician to the other. ch4rles also mentioned wood materials in relation to hygiene and ease of (proper) cleaning.

I think this looks like a great product, don't get me wrong! I'm looking for a breath controller to replace my (very) old BC-1, and I would seriously consider your hb1 MIDI Breath Station if it wasn't for that pricetag.. IMHO it's a little bit high but what do I know.

I wish you the best of luck with your product!


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## ch4rles (Apr 22, 2014)

JE Martinsen @ Tue Apr 22 said:


> I think this looks like a great product, don't get me wrong! I'm looking for a breath controller to replace my (very) old BC-1, and I would seriously consider your hb1 MIDI Breath Station if it wasn't for that pricetag.. IMHO it's a little bit high but what do I know.)



I can really recommend the TEControl BC. It works great and - unlike Hornberg - the price is reasonable. Just make sure you also get the headset with yamaha-like mouthpiece, I'm very glad I did because it works much better than the default basic plastic bits.

Apart from gimmicks like the service tree wood and luxury materials I think the Hornberg adjustments (gain and offset, basically) look primitive compared to the beautiful TEControl graphical sensitivity curve editor, which easily allows nonlinear response - which I am finding really nice and useful to have.

The TEControl can send not just MIDI CC, but also Pitch Bend and Aftertouch. The latter two appear to be lacking in the Hornberg. I use CC though so this is not useful to me.

The Hornberg has this attack/release filtering which the TEControl hasn't. But as mentioned above by TotalComposure, it can be done by software. It could probably be somewhat useful for swells but if you use the BC for woodwind/brass, such filtering is actually harmful rather than useful because it slows down transients.

Check the impressive video from Perry below, look at how quickly the BC signal changes on the screen during his trombone piece (starts at http://youtu.be/QUJBW9w_MQo?t=5m13s (5m13s). In order to do this you want the BC response to be very fast, with no filtering. When you want it slower, you blow softer and YOU do it, not the breath controller. Just like a real instrument. 



BTW, I'm not nearly as good as Perry but I am constantly improving and I hope one day I'll get there!


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## apessino (Apr 22, 2014)

The release parameter would be useful to give non-wind instruments a bit of automatic tapering off, when desired. Using breath to control dynamics for strings, for example - it is just a convenience thing, and it is obviously not meant for instruments that are blown in the first place... 8)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 22, 2014)

> I don't understand why anyone would want to pay an arm and a leg for the showroom appearance and needless bells and whistles of the Hornberg breath station. Just my cheap opinion.



I don't understand why anyone would think it's acceptable to dis someone else's livelihood, hard work, and investment without knowing anything about it. You did the same thing with our product, sight unseen.

It's not as we're out there trying to produce crap everyone hates just so we can get rich at fellow musicians' expense. Hornberg produced the best breath controller instrument they could - yes, this is an instrument - and if you do that it's going to be expensive. Legitimate criticism is useful, but what you're doing is just nasty.

Everyone who posts here is a real live human being, and human beings have feelings.


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## jleckie (Apr 22, 2014)

Probably because they don't work hard at a livelihood and know what its like to endure the rigors and toils of everyday elbow grease?


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## PerryD (Apr 22, 2014)

I have used breath controllers since the Steiner Master's Touch first came out. I currently use a BC3 and the TEC USB. I would love to have the Hornberg BC in the same way I would love to have a Ferrari. Even if I were a multi-millionaire, I might only lease the Ferrari but I would definitely own a Hornberg BC! Having not seen a Hornberg BC in person, the only unqualified critique I would make based on the luxury price is that the neck strap, albeit leather, looks like the cheap ones that come with student saxes. :cry: 

-Perry-


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## apessino (Apr 22, 2014)

minimidi @ Mon Apr 21 said:


> maestro2be @ Mon Apr 21 said:
> 
> 
> > What is the delivery time for one of these units to the US?
> ...



I laughed way too much at this... :mrgreen:


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## minimidi (Apr 23, 2014)

PerryD @ Tue Apr 22 said:


> Having not seen a Hornberg BC in person, the only unqualified critique I would make based on the luxury price is that the neck strap, albeit leather, looks like the cheap ones that come with student saxes.



Appearances are deceptive. The neck strap is made of Saola leather, which connoisseurs are known to appreciate.


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## Hornberg Research (Apr 25, 2014)

ch4rles @ Tue 22 Apr said:


> Apart from gimmicks like the service tree wood and luxury materials I think the Hornberg adjustments (gain and offset, basically) look primitive compared to the beautiful TEControl graphical sensitivity curve editor, which easily allows nonlinear response - which I am finding really nice and useful to have.
> 
> The Hornberg has this attack/release filtering which the TEControl hasn't. But as mentioned above by TotalComposure, it can be done by software. It could probably be somewhat useful for swells but if you use the BC for woodwind/brass, such filtering is actually harmful rather than useful because it slows down transients.



You are right, offset and gain is the basic funktionality of all common breath controllers and so the hb1 has it also. When we started with the developement of the hb1 we tried changable output curves for modelling an instruments behaviour. But we found, setting a static curve is not the right way. 
Real Instruments act mainly in time not in pressure. Every real instrument and of course every wind instrument has a attack and release behaviour. This can not be realised with a static, time independent curve, which is just a mapping between input pressure and output MIDI-data.

That's, why the hb1 has the hornberg specific (and applied for patent) parameters attack and release that makes the output time and pressure dependent. By air suck it is possible to shorten the release time if needed.

For detailed description, please see our webside. 
http://www.hornberg-research.de/ind...r-products-en#breath-controller-hb1parameters

To define the static behaviour the hb1 has the parameters drive (sensitivity), offset and limit. The TEC has the additional parameters symmetrie and bending. But Perry, as can be seen at the video, you refer to, does not use it. He prefers the linear curve. I think he knows why.



ch4rles @ Tue 22 Apr said:


> Check the impressive video from Perry below, look at how quickly the BC signal changes on the screen during his trombone piece (starts at http://youtu.be/QUJBW9w_MQo?t=5m13s (5m13s). In order to do this you want the BC response to be very fast, with no filtering. When you want it slower, you blow softer and YOU do it, not the breath controller. Just like a real instrument.



Because of physics, with a 2 meter long hose you will have a latency of 5.8 ms minimum. 
With it's short hose, the hb1 can react very fast with or without attack. Just select as much attack as you need for your sound. And of course you don't have to use attack or release if you don't want.



ch4rles @ Tue 22 Apr said:


> The TEControl can send not just MIDI CC, but also Pitch Bend and Aftertouch. The latter two appear to be lacking in the Hornberg. I use CC though so this is not useful to me.



I can not understand why it is usefull to send Aftertouch or Ptich Bend Controller data from a breath controller. Aftertouch and Pitch Bend are controllers and you have to route the data to a parameter of your sound. That can be done with any MIDI CC also.


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## ch4rles (Apr 25, 2014)

Hornberg Research @ Fri Apr 25 said:


> Real Instruments act mainly in time not in pressure. Every real instrument and of course every wind instrument has a attack and release behaviour. This can not be realised with a static, time independent curve, which is just a mapping between input pressure and output MIDI-data.



Sorry but I think you are confusing keyed instruments (a piano for example), where attack/decay/sustain/release are predetermined - altough changeable with pedals.

Wind and brass instruments instead are driven by pressure and flow. I am not a physicist, however https://www.mcgill.ca/music/about-us/bio/gary-p-scavone (this guy) is and I strongly recommend you read his research, which should dissipate any doubt in this regard.



> The TEC has the additional parameters symmetrie and bending. But Perry, as can be seen at the video, you refer to, does not use it. He prefers the linear curve. I think he knows why.



Personally, I like the nonlinear TEC sensitivity very much and wouldn't want to do without it. And I don't appear to be the only one:

http://www.tecontrol.se/products/usb-midi-breath-controller/testimonials


> I'm totally thrilled with the new TEControl breath controller. This is the best one I've used, especially because of the excellent tools for adjusting sensitivity curves. With the departure of the Yamaha BC3a I was just hoping for an adequate replacement; what I got was a big step forward. Thank you!
> 
> Theodore Shapiro
> Composer





> the hb1 has the hornberg specific (and applied for patent)



Aha, that explains where your price tag really comes from. It's ridicolously expensive to obtain and maintain a patent, so unless you are planning to sell hundreds of thousands of your product, your customers will be financing the patent office...

http://www.basicpatents.com/patcost.htm


> After the patent has issued ,the USPTO requires that maintenance fees be paid at periodic periods. The maintenance fees increase over the life of the patent which is 20 years from the date the application was filed. The maintenance fee schedule is published by the USPTO and such fees range between $2995.00 and $5790 depending upon your classification as a small entity or large entity.
> 
> Based on the uncertainties of the searching process, and the number of amendments and drawings that may be required, one can typically expect to spend at least $3000.00 for obtaining a United States Patent. These costs however, as noted-above, could be substantially higher. In addition, if one wants to protect an invention outside of the United States, they can expect to expend an additional $10000 per each foreign country in which protection is sought. In short then, as stated in the beginning of this summary, obtaining a patent is a relatively expensive process.






> Because of physics, with a 2 meter long hose you will have a latency of 5.8 ms minimum.



The latency of a French horn, whose tubing is 3 times longer, is not an issue for professional players. Therefore I call bullshit on this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_(instrument)


> The horn, also known as the corno and French horn, is a brass instrument made of more than 20 feet (6.1 m) of tubing wrapped into a coil with a flared bell.



Furthermore, I could easily cut the silicon pipe of my TEC as short as I want and just use a USB extension cable to the computer. The device is smaller and presumably lighter than your sensor case. 



> I can not understand why it is usefull to send Aftertouch or Ptich Bend Controller data from a breath controller. Aftertouch and Pitch Bend are controllers and you have to route the data to a parameter of your sound. That can be done with any MIDI CC also.



In fact I said I don't need it. I was just trying to compare the two products objectively.


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## Hornberg Research (Apr 25, 2014)

ch4rles @ Fri 25 Apr said:


> Hornberg Research @ Fri Apr 25 said:
> 
> 
> > Real Instruments act mainly in time not in pressure. Every real instrument and of course every wind instrument has a attack and release behaviour. This can not be realised with a static, time independent curve, which is just a mapping between input pressure and output MIDI-data.
> ...



No I'm not confusing. Every natural instrument has an attack and release behaviour. Please look at this http://www.moz.ac.at/sem/lehre/lib/ks/lib/additive/akustik02a.htm To see an example for a trumpet at 340Hz. Sorry this is in German. May be Google translate can help you. 
The work of Gary P. Scavone is realy interesting but it has nothing to do with this questions.



> > The TEC has the additional parameters symmetrie and bending. But Perry, as can be seen at the video, you refer to, does not use it. He prefers the linear curve. I think he knows why.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The video was your example! As I described above, static curves are an option but not the best solution. 



> I'm totally thrilled with the new TEControl breath controller. This is the best one I've used, especially because of the excellent tools for adjusting sensitivity curves. With the departure of the Yamaha BC3a I was just hoping for an adequate replacement; what I got was a big step forward. Thank you!
> 
> Theodore Shapiro
> Composer



I'm happy with everybody who found the right tool for his work. The hb1 is different to the TEC. It has a different concept, different features and different materials. If you don't like it, you do not have to buy it. 



> > the hb1 has the hornberg specific (and applied for patent)
> 
> 
> 
> Aha, that explains where your price tag really comes from. It's ridicolously expensive to obtain and maintain a patent, so unless you are planning to sell hundreds of thousands of your product, your customers will be financing the patent office...



This is a naughty insinuation. Remember, the BC3 was patented also.


http://www.basicpatents.com/patcost.htm


> After the patent has issued ,the USPTO requires that maintenance fees be paid at periodic periods. The maintenance fees increase over the life of the patent which is 20 years from the date the application was filed. The maintenance fee schedule is published by the USPTO and such fees range between $2995.00 and $5790 depending upon your classification as a small entity or large entity.
> 
> Based on the uncertainties of the searching process, and the number of amendments and drawings that may be required, one can typically expect to spend at least $3000.00 for obtaining a United States Patent. These costs however, as noted-above, could be substantially higher. In addition, if one wants to protect an invention outside of the United States, they can expect to expend an additional $10000 per each foreign country in which protection is sought. In short then, as stated in the beginning of this summary, obtaining a patent is a relatively expensive process.






> > Because of physics, with a 2 meter long hose you will have a latency of 5.8 ms minimum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know, that a hornplayer could deal with the latency (attack behaviour) of his instrument. It was your remark that the response has to be fast. 



> Furthermore, I could easily cut the silicon pipe of my TEC as short as I want and just use a USB extension cable to the computer. The device is smaller and presumably lighter than your sensor case.



This is a good idea to get the TEC faster. But think you have to wear the USB-Cabel also and therefore it woud not be lighter than the sensor device of the hb1 with it's light cable. 



> > I can not understand why it is usefull to send Aftertouch or Ptich Bend Controller data from a breath controller. Aftertouch and Pitch Bend are controllers and you have to route the data to a parameter of your sound. That can be done with any MIDI CC also.
> 
> 
> 
> In fact I said I don't need it. I was just trying to compare the two products objectively.



It is not ojectively if you say: "The latter two appear to be lacking in the Hornberg"
And you can not say what it is useable for.


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## ch4rles (Apr 30, 2014)

Hornberg Research @ Fri Apr 25 said:


> This is a naughty insinuation. Remember, the BC3 was patented also.


Not sure about that. I thought the synthesizer concept using breath input was patented, not the BC itself.... I may be wrong though.



> I know, that a hornplayer could deal with the latency (attack behaviour) of his instrument. It was your remark that the response has to be fast.



The guy in this video is a good example of why you want the BC to be very fast. The interesting part starts around 1:38

http://youtu.be/5j1CUY2ELtE?t=1m38s


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## Hornberg Research (Aug 4, 2014)

Hi all together. Some time has passed by since our last writing. We have used this time to create one more video. This video explains all the parameters and features of the hb1 MIDI Breath Station. We hope that this video is suitable to give an short overview to show what is special with the hb1. 

The attentive observer will notice, that there are two new parameters now. "Boost attack" and "boost release". We have added this parameters to give the player, who uses the attack or release parameter of the hb1, the possibility to reach the highest- or lowest output value nevertheless at any time and very quickly. 


If you are interested in our new video please follow this link:


or visit our homepage. There you will find some new testimonials also.
http://www.hornberg-research.de


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## rdieters (Aug 4, 2014)

Your hb1 has luxurious build quality for sure. But I wonder how the functionality compares to more reasonably priced breath controllers.

Has anyone on this forum had a chance to compare it to a BC3 or TEControl?


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## Hornberg Research (Jun 23, 2015)

Hi here we are again, we have done a lot of work in the last months and we are happy to announce a new feature of the hb1. The "dual mode" gives you the ability to combine two presets of the hb1 together. This allows you to use two different controllers simultaneously. A short video can show you the capabilities of this new feature of the hb1.[/url][/youtube]




some more informations are available at our hompage
http://www.hornberg-research.de


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## rdieters (Jun 23, 2015)

Hornberg Research @ Tue Jun 23 said:


> The "dual mode" gives you the ability to combine two presets of the hb1 together. This allows you to use two different controllers simultaneously.



Why not simply use transmidifier? It can generate as many CC messages as you like, and can also transform the signal... and it's free!

http://www.bewaryprods.com/software/pro ... nsMIDIfier


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## MaestroRage (Jun 23, 2015)

just another voice echoing the sentiment. Price tag is too high for me personally. If it was around the $300 point I would have picked this up. I also do not think the super rare wood adds anything meaningful to the product. Maybe it's a higher class thing, I also see no point in paying $1000 for a rare bottle of wine.


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## Mystic (Jun 23, 2015)

Indeed. I would have considered this at a $400 price point but I see this as more of a luxury item based on the asking price. The results might end up a bit better than other options but not "worth $800 more" better.


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## jason.d (Jun 23, 2015)

Agreed. It looks like a nice product, but $500 tops. Anything more will likely scare off the majority of consumers (me for sure).


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## chimuelo (Jun 23, 2015)

I don't think anyone here will Beaver the developer down to less money.
It's obviuosly a great product but I gave up on this one.
Too bad as it sure looks like it would really shine with the 32bit resoltion I use with Scope DSP.


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## rgarber (Jun 28, 2015)

I've been nothing but frustrated and disappointed with breath controllers and I swear I've had just about every last one of them. I buy pro horns, Selmers and Yamahas, so the price tag isn't my concern. What I don't want is to experience the same disappointment at a higher price point. Prove to me playing this wind controller is every bit as the same as playing my pro horns, and I'll buy one, just like that.

In moments of glory I've heard a breath controller put out a blast from a horn like the real thing that for reasons I can't explain, just scrolling the velocity up to 127 doesn't do the same. So I for one, especially since I do jazz, would love to see a wind controller play like a real horn.

I'm waiting for more endorsements from folks who don't work with the company as any online purchase has to be viewed with some skepticism. I bought all my horns online but buying them was easy, for the reputation of not only the horns but the companies themselves.

I got a drawer full of breath controllers, I don't want to add another. Is there any trial offer in place?

EDIT: Reading the contract page we do have a remedy to cancel and return product. A little longer time frame would be nicer but the amount of time is doable. Gonna mull this over now.


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## rdieters (Jun 29, 2015)

rgarber said:


> I've been nothing but frustrated and disappointed with breath controllers and I swear I've had just about every last one of them.



I have a TEControl BC and I can recommend and there's a bunch of happy people using it apparently. But then again, you must have tried that one too... I think they have a return policy, or at least they did when I bought it about a year ago if I remember well.


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## rgarber (Jun 30, 2015)

rdieters said:


> I have a TEControl BC and I can recommend and there's a bunch of happy people using it apparently. But then again, you must have tried that one too... I think they have a return policy, or at least they did when I bought it about a year ago if I remember well.



Yep, I have one of those.

Being a sax player, I typically end up with, in the piano roll, all kinds of variations (or what I call nervousness in the arc) and as these guys are saying, I prefer smoother arcs. My ears can't hear the kind of resolution the transducer picks up and thus it creates inconsistencies in the arc (or what I call nervousness). So what I end up doing is going back and editing my wind controller made arcs in the piano roll to the point I might as well have entered the expressions by hand. 

Just 'talkin shop', but maybe it's because you don't really need diaphragm to play a wind controller. When I play a wind controller everything feels like I'm blowing from the wind pipe up whereas I'm used to playing down from the diaphragm. To get 'that' good on the wind controller I'm guessing I'd have to retrain my diaphragm to blow such small amounts of air into these sensitive straws. Simple sensitivity adjustments doesn't help because then the transducer is accepting a fraction of my range output.

Without drawing a picture imagine two arcs, one that's really big and one that's really small. The big arc would represent playing a real horn and the small one playing the amount of air needed to play a wind controller. I'm so used to pushing so much air compared to what a wind controller needs, I can't play in such a small space. My brain keeps defaulting to how I would play using a real horn. Hence I'm either blowing too loud or too soft, rarely recreating a horn to the point I hear natural expression.

If any of this makes any sense....


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## rdieters (Jun 30, 2015)

rgarber said:


> Without drawing a picture imagine two arcs, one that's really big and one that's really small. The big arc would represent playing a real horn and the small one playing the amount of air needed to play a wind controller. I'm so used to pushing so much air compared to what a wind controller needs, I can't play in such a small space. My brain keeps defaulting to how I would play using a real horn. Hence I'm either blowing too loud or too soft, rarely recreating a horn to the point I hear natural expression.



Looks like you need a lot of air through, more than the small pipe can handle. Just a crazy idea: a trip to the hardware store... get a larger diameter pipe, it should allow lots of air through without increasing pressure much, and maybe you can even stick a real horn mouthpiece on it. Then you need to find a way to connect the other end to the small pressure sensor nipple. The bleed air you can let out through a "T" or "Y" connector and another piece of bigger pipe...


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## rgarber (Jun 30, 2015)

rdieters said:


> Looks like you need a lot of air through, more than the small pipe can handle. Just a crazy idea: a trip to the hardware store... get a larger diameter pipe, it should allow lots of air through without increasing pressure much, and maybe you can even stick a real horn mouthpiece on it. Then you need to find a way to connect the other end to the small pressure sensor nipple. The bleed air you can let out through a "T" or "Y" connector and another piece of bigger pipe...



It's an idea... might do the trick. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## Hornberg Research (Jul 5, 2015)

rgarber said:


> I've been nothing but frustrated and disappointed with breath controllers and I swear I've had just about every last one of them. I buy pro horns, Selmers and Yamahas, so the price tag isn't my concern. What I don't want is to experience the same disappointment at a higher price point. Prove to me playing this wind controller is every bit as the same as playing my pro horns, and I'll buy one, just like that.
> 
> EDIT: Reading the contract page we do have a remedy to cancel and return product. A little longer time frame would be nicer but the amount of time is doable. Gonna mull this over now.




Hi rgarber we are very pleased about your interest for the hb1.
We know it is not so easy to understand what the benefits of the hb1 are, because it has a lot of realy new features that are not available for any other breath controler in the world. So it is hard to compare. We are sure the hb1 could solve the problems you described. But of course we have to, because we developed it and we feel confident that we have reached our goals.
Because we are a smal company we can act flexible and non-bureaucratic. If you need a longer money-back warranty please write us a note by E-mail (mail.hornberg-research.de). I'm sure we will find a solution for you.


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## rgarber (Jul 5, 2015)

Hornberg Research said:


> Hi rgarber we are very pleased about your interest for the hb1.
> We know it is not so easy to understand what the benefits of the hb1 are, because it has a lot of realy new features that are not available for any other breath controler in the world. So it is hard to compare. We are sure the hb1 could solve the problems you described. But of course we have to, because we developed it and we feel confident that we have reached our goals.
> Because we are a smal company we can act flexible and non-bureaucratic. If you need a longer money-back warranty please write us a note by E-mail (mail.hornberg-research.de). I'm sure we will find a solution for you.



Thanks, I'm going to mull this over and I'll take you up on your offer shortly. Give me a few days, the wife is still recovering from the shock of my purchasing 'another' pro horn to add to my collection.


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## mpalenik (Jul 7, 2015)

Hornberg Research said:


> Because of physics, with a 2 meter long hose you will have a latency of 5.8 ms minimum.
> With it's short hose, the hb1 can react very fast with or without attack. Just select as much attack as you need for your sound. And of course you don't have to use attack or release if you don't want.



edit: I'm removing this because I need to check to see if something works out correctly, but if vibrations in the metal that induce pressure waves in the air (and vice versa) play a big role, given the speed of sound in brass, the latency in a 2m object might be more like 0.57 m/s. . . I was a little too hasty with my original post, though. But in short, I'm not convinced that your mechanism of the latency being attributable solely to the rate at which sound propagates through air is correct.


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## mpalenik (Jul 7, 2015)

Ok, a slightly less hasty reply this time. Here's what happens and why I think latency is probably more like 0.57 ms in a 2 m object, rather than 5.8 ms. I haven't been working on this particular type of problem in a long time, so there is some room for mistakes:

The simplest way to model a wind instrument is that you just have a pressure wave with Von Neumann boundary conditions at one end and Direchlet at the other. In other words, the wave is "pinned" at one end and flattens at the other. You can change this up a bit, but the principle is the same.

However, the instrument itself resonates and this is in essence what is responsible for the boundary conditions: the interaction of the air waves with the vibrations of the instrument body. When you blow into an instrument, you make the body vibrate, exciting a very high frequency mode in the body. This also causes the air inside the instrument to be driven at each point and you can solve the wave equation for a driven wave.

edit: I was in a huge rush and I think I made a mistake somewhere, so I'll just sort of summarize what I think happens again--for anyone who knows math, the difficulty is solving the equation when the excitation is for a finite time (definite starting time, so not truly a pure frequency) and also not a delta function.

What I thought I had shown--and I'm no longer confident, but I can't spend any more time on it at this moment, is that the much more quickly traveling waves in the body of the instrument *do* induce pressure waves in the air at a frequency corresponding to that same wavelength. Therefore, the "latency" is most likely related to the amount of time that it takes the waves to propagate through the instrument body and not through the air.

The speed of sound through brass is somewhere around 3400 m/s -- a factor of 10 higher than in air. It is similar in silver and slightly higher in wood.


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## minimidi (Jul 11, 2015)

mpalenik said:


> The speed of sound through brass is somewhere around 3400 m/s -- a factor of 10 higher than in air. It is similar in silver and slightly higher in wood.



And of course the speed of sound in the service tree wood is faster than in any other material...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 19, 2017)

Old thread, but I got a new notification about it.

At NAMM I had a chance to meet the designer and see the instrument. It was behind plexiglass (you wouldn't want everyone's germs on it), but I can see why the price has to be what it is. This isn't the Hula Hoop, a mass market item, and it's clearly a labor of love.

He raised an additional argument, which I agree with (because I have a broken one): some of the BCs have a habit of wearing out. This won't.

Anyway, this is on my wish list.


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## noises on (Apr 21, 2017)

I have owned a Vl1 along with its BC1, BC2 and BC3 since the mid 90's, and use it routinely with a variety of Vst instruments. When my trusty unit finally fails I would seriously be considering and analyzing the merits of both the hornberger and TEC units. For further validation of any of the various options see Dario Marianelli's reference to his unit at 41,43 inf this video https://www.spitfireaudio.com/editorial/cribs/dario-marianelli/


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## wbacer (Apr 28, 2017)

It appears that Ilio (Malibu, CA) is now carrying the Hornberg hb1 MIDI Breath Station for $899 USD.
http://www.ilio.com/products/hornbe...ate&utm_medium=email&utm_source=customer-list

Also looks like there is now a software interface for both PC and Mac.
https://www.hornberg-research.de/index.php/en/breath-controller-newsletter-en

Anybody own one?


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## gjelul (Apr 28, 2017)

Looks great, but... way too pricey for me. 

I went for the TecBreathController, @ $199 it does everything that I need... and it is only 25% of the cost of the Hornberg. With the remaining 75% I can get a few sample libraries. I would have gone for this one had it been in the $350 - $400 bracket.


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## wbacer (Apr 28, 2017)

Same with me, I also have the TEC and love it.


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## chimuelo (Apr 28, 2017)

I assign CC# 002 to a Ribbon Controller or an FC7.

Just look in the mirror and asks yourself....you really want to look that stupid?


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