# How I pitched music to filmmakers I wanted to work with



## dciurlizza (Sep 23, 2018)

*WHAT THIS IS ABOUT (AND HOW YOU CAN USE IT)*

This is about finding work (even without the help of agents) and connecting with people you want to work with.

Most of the projects I've gotten have come from mutual connections and word of mouth. That said, I often wanted to take a more active approach to finding more projects to work on.

My team and I had developed this pitching process through 6 years of active pitching. During that long process, we've lost out on a lot of really fun projects (it's not bulletproof) - but we've also landed some amazing opportunities.

The process differs depending on what your goals are, but I've noticed that the same structure works for just about any job - even across different industries... people just respond well to genuine interest.

For now, I'll focus on who we've pitched to the most - indie filmmakers.

By the way, I first posted a summarized variation of this on the Facebook group, _Perspective: A Forum for Film, TV, and Media Composers, _back on July 23, 2017_. _Lots of people asked questions on there and made great points about how this process could be improved. You can find the original post here, but you'll have to join the private group to see it.

This version, which goes deeper on some parts (like _how_ to look on specific sites), is something I wrote for my teammates to dig into. Hope it helps you too!

*THE PITCHING PROCESS*

*1. LOOK FOR A PROJECT*

Depending on what projects you're looking for, you can browse YouTube, Vimeo, Kickstarter (and other crowdfunding sites) for indie films, or sites like Movie Insider/IMDb for long-form films in development.

Here's what I do in each of those:

*YOUTUBE* - Go into the search bar and type "proof of concept short film." From there, you can sort by upload date + view count. Another good search is "short film filmmaker." If you're looking for a specific genre, you could type "sci-fi" or "drama" before those searches.

*VIMEO *- Go to their "Staff Picks" or "Categories" sections. _Staff Picks_ will likely have a lot of traffic coming to the filmmakers, so it's going to be a little harder than ones that haven't gotten that award. Searching through categories will bring up different styles of videos. I like exploring their "Narrative" section.

*KICKSTARTER* - Check out their "Film" section and look for projects that are brand new, or almost funded. Some of these projects won't get funded, but I think the priority should be the project/story itself. Hell, if you like the project enough, shoot them some money. I've made connections that way too. If you're not in a position to take that chance, go for projects that will definitely get funding.

*INDIEGOGO* - Same as Kickstarter. Check out their "Film"" and peruse!

*MOVIE INSIDER* *- You can search by production status here. I like going for projects in development and pre-production. Info on the team behind a project likely won’t be listed here, in my experience. Searching for them on IMDb Pro or doing a general Google search might help.

*IMDB PRO* *- You can search what production companies are working on here. I like going into the pages of distributors (like Netflix or Amazon Studios) to see what's in development or production.
*_Both MOVIE INSIDER & IMDB PRO tend to have larger-budget projects, which is the kind of work we haven't tested this process with. We’ve pitched to directors who have movies on those sites, but the response rate isn't as good. Even still, they were positive and receptive when they did respond. The ones that were interested, but declined , were either using 100% licensed songs, or already had a composer._ _Other times, we aimed too high in scale (production-wise) and got no response._

*2. PICK SOMETHING THAT YOU CONNECT WITH*

Pick a project you really connect with and do as much research as you can on the story. Figure out what it's about, what it's based on (if there's a book - read it or get the cliff notes on it), who is making it, and who the director, writers, or producers are.

*3. CREATE A SHORT CUSTOM DEMO BASED ON THE FILM'S STORY*

If you have access to any of the project’s materials, use them to write a demo of what you think the music should sound like. Demos can be between 2 to 3 minutes long and cover a range of emotions that we might hear in the movie we're pitching for. Rather than length, it's the content that matters, especially if they'll be skipping around... which they likely will.

This action - taking the time to write them a demo - effectively shows your work ethic and investment in their project. Not only are you sending them a demo before they’re expecting it, you’re also putting in more work than they were ever expecting from someone (that's not already on the project).

Most composers will come in asking if they _can_ do some work; you’ll come in, wasting no time, already having a portion of the work done.

More often than not, you’re going to get a positive reaction.

*4. PREPARE YOUR PITCH PACKAGE*

You can use your website to assemble your pitch, or maybe something like ReelCrafter or SoundCloud might be more your style. Since I haven't tested it, I don't actually know what would be better in most cases, but I'll always appreciate a private page that's customized to me, the receiver.

Here's an example of what your website pitch could look like when it's fully customized to the project:

LINK - https://www.outlierstudios.co/pitch
PASS - pitch

*5. WRITE AN EMAIL THEY CARE ABOUT*

Write an email to the director explaining how much you enjoy the ideas behind the project.

Here's what that might look like...

_Template last updated Oct. 22, 2018 (see comments for old ones)_​
*SUBJECT LINE:* [Name], how can I contribute? [or, “Love [FILM TITLE] – how can I help?”]

Hi [Filmmaker] (or [Company Name] Team),

My name's VIControl and I recently saw/heard/read about your film, [FILM TITLE], on/from [place/person] and really enjoyed the ideas behind it – particularly [key element you enjoyed]. Offering that kind of content to the industry/story/films (etc.) is something I really connect with. 

I was so entranced by the world of [FILM TITLE] that I wrote music inspired by the story - you can find that here (along with my vision for the overall sound):

LINK: https://www.outlierstudios.co/pitch (outlierstudios.co/pitch)
PASSWORD: pitch

If you’re interested, I’d love to expand on these ideas and talk with you about contributing to the project!

Looking forward to exploring this further, [Filmmaker]!

Kind regards,
VI Control| Film Composer
http://www.filmcomposerwebsite.com (www.filmcomposerwebsite.com) | 510.555.1234​*6. FOLLOWING UP*

Send that email. But before you do, consider using software like Yesware so you know if (and when) people are opening your emails. It can also remind us when we should follow up with them after we've pitched.

People don't always respond right away - they're either too early in development or they just forget. That follow-up software will help with this.

Follow up after a week. Then maybe 2 weeks after that. I play with timing depending on what kind of project it is. Many projects have longer development/pre-production periods (but fast production/post), so they may not be ready to think about music early on.

*7. NURTURE THE RELATIONSHIP*

You might get the project you pitched for... or you might not.

Ultimately, you've made a connection with someone whose creativity you admire (and you've made a great portfolio piece while you were at it). If you sustain this relationship by being genuine, interested, and generous, good things can happen. It's not unheard of to be recommended by someone that you've never worked with before.

Plus, the more you support our fellow filmmakers, the better the community around us becomes.

*HOW CAN THIS PROCESS IMPROVE?*

I can't promise that this is the best process for you. Something like that is based on your personal style. But I think it's a good starting point for building a relationship from scratch.

That said, if anyone has additional thoughts on this, I'd love to know them. Can you think of ways this process could improve? What sort of effective pitching techniques do you like to use if you're actively looking for work?


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## desert (Sep 24, 2018)

Is this an ad? Sounds like a pyramid scheme.

Although the content is well written, you could have summarised it all into one sentence: Don’t be lazy or shy, hand out your ‘resumes’ to every one, let them reject you and not you reject them.

Like you said, this is basic knowledge that can apply across all industries...


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## Gerbil (Sep 24, 2018)

desert said:


> Is this an ad? Sounds like a pyramid scheme.
> 
> Although the content is well written, you could have summarised it all into one sentence: Don’t be lazy or shy, hand out your ‘resumes’ to every one, let them reject you and not you reject them.



That is not anywhere close to being a summary.


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## desert (Sep 24, 2018)

Gerbil said:


> That is not anywhere close to being a summary.


Haha you got me. How about this - “How to get rich, fast!”

Better?


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## JeffvR (Sep 24, 2018)

Great post! Isn't it useful to find out in step 2 if there isn't a composer on board already? And what to do when there's a composer on board? Pitch anyway and hope for the best for their next project? Or skip this oppertunity and move on?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Sep 24, 2018)

dciurlizza said:


> *WHAT THIS IS ABOUT (AND HOW YOU CAN USE IT)*
> 
> ....



Thanks for sharing and the insight with your process. More power to you if that works as it seems. I am not sure if I would go that route tbh. For several reasons. SO lets assume there is someone I would be interested to work for. Still the question is if he anyways is working on something specific where he is reaching out for hiring somebody. Is that the case? If not you create for that person "work" by sending out that mails. And some people are more annoyed getting mails because they feel then to be obligated to reply etc. Normally I aqcuire projects from people I know a bit longer and they hire me because we built up a non business kind of relation prior such thing happens. It is not always the case of course. Another way what happens is that kind of mouth talk so (you mentioned it)...so people I worked for tell others that they are pleased so then they contact me and asked me to work for them. However, there is no right or wrong maybe. And your introductory letter is fine to read but the question is how authentic is that really? Do you think that somebody you don´t know will buy that anyways? I don´t know if I would buy that, but thats just me. And you would have always some work to do and that means work for free because you had to create all those custom demos which is time consuming if you want to make really good demos. I am not really convinced that this would motivate me to reach out for people and I am not even sure if the people would respond to such mails anyways. But it seems like that to a certain degree it works for you, so thats good. I remember that I did such a things years ago..and the result was: No reaction. Well..tbh: That was a time when I started of and the quality of my writing was in the basement and I had no experience whatssoever I still spent a shitload of time into that custom trailer demo with the result that the guy even didn´t respond to my mail. Not even a "Thank you, it is sounds like shit, but thank you". That example is surerly not representative but be aware that this kind of job hunting can make you a lot work and you don´t see one penny. If you have the time and luxury to do that..try that.


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## Loïc D (Sep 24, 2018)

You can also try the "I know what you did last summer"-pitch on your target.
Even if you have no clue, you might get the job... even with good royalties.
Threatening is often underestimated, but it works. See Trump.

More seriously, it seems like a daunting job to get the suggestions done, with probably very little return.
While this is something I might do at a lower scale since I'm hobbyist, I don't really picture professionals hard pitch this way...

@douggibson : wow, didn't know this happened on Kickstarter.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Sep 24, 2018)

Imho make friends with people who you share similiar tastes, goals and ideology. I try to surround myself with such individuals. It is not always going to be that you work together but from my experience it happens quite often. But that is not the intention to connect with others, it is the intention in first place to share similiar interests to something specific.


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## Andrajas (Sep 24, 2018)

The most recent project I worked on I talked with the director about this, and he told me the amount of emails he gets from all kinds of people, actors, editors, composers etc that want to work with him. He is not a big shot (not yet) but I bet they can get a bit irritated by this. Its understandable that we really want a next gig, but my own experience (not a big one) this rarely never works and the ones that do, they pay way to little. 

its a difficult topic, but yeah I agree that if you make yourself visible in the right circles, you have a better shot than writing lots of emails to people you don't know.


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## Desire Inspires (Sep 24, 2018)

Man, it’s probably easier to just make some YouTube videos, add your own music, and become a star yourself. 

Why work hard as hell for someone else’s project?


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## dciurlizza (Sep 24, 2018)

desert said:


> Is this an ad? Sounds like a pyramid scheme.
> 
> Although the content is well written, you could have summarised it all into one sentence: Don’t be lazy or shy, hand out your ‘resumes’ to every one, let them reject you and not you reject them.
> 
> Like you said, this is basic knowledge that can apply across all industries...



Hahah this is definitely an ad, but I only take good conversation dollars.

You make solid points about what all this boils down to, it's just that a lot of people don't really know _how _to do those things, and _why_ nurturing relationships in this way can be good for us and the people we work with

I started this whole process as a guideline for myself (then wrote it down for my teammates, and whoever else wanted to score more stuff) as a way to approach connecting with people and working on projects, but with the mindset of _offering_ rather than _asking_ for something.



JeffvR said:


> Great post! Isn't it useful to find out in step 2 if there isn't a composer on board already? And what to do when there's a composer on board? Pitch anyway and hope for the best for their next project? Or skip this oppertunity and move on?



Thanks Jeff! Yeah, great point. Step 2 is right around the time I'd figure out if there was already someone on board. Usually you can just hit Ctrl + F on the project page and search for "composer" or "music."

If I really liked the project and the team behind it,
I've sometimes still pitched if there was a composer - many times offering to help the main composer out if they needed it.

For one film, the composer that was on there decided he'd rather I score the entire film, so I became the composer. I think he was focused on a different part of the music industry - not scoring, ultimately. We never know what's happening in the background.

Other times if there's a composer, I move on if I'm not really connecting with some aspect of the project.

I think the cool part about pitching this way - even if we don't get the job - is it's still healthy in terms of building relationships. After sending all these kind words and materials, it's likely they'll remember us in a positive way. And later, when we work on something they know and see our names on _that_ project, they start to think "oh I remember them, they were great. I should connect." Could be the start of a strong friendship.


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## dciurlizza (Sep 24, 2018)

@AlexanderSchiborr - Great insights all around. Here's my thinking...



AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Normally I aqcuire projects from people I know a bit longer and they hire me because we built up a non business kind of relation prior such thing happens. It is not always the case of course. Another way what happens is that kind of mouth talk so (you mentioned it)...so people I worked for tell others that they are pleased so then they contact me and asked me to work for them.



This will always be the best route, I think. The idea behind this whole process is built on making a connection with someone I want to work with, then building a relationship with them. It's the same thing I'd do if I wanted to connect with someone in general, except in this case, I also want them to know that I'm invested in their art, so I do things that can possibly help out as part of the intro.

This isn't the _only_ way to connect with filmmakers, but it's my most active way of making a connection.



AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Still the question is if he anyways is working on something specific where he is reaching out for hiring somebody. Is that the case? If not you create for that person "work" by sending out that mails. And some people are more annoyed getting mails because they feel then to be obligated to reply etc.



Yet another good point. Yeah, there's the risk that I'm creating more work for someone when I do this. The hope is that they'll see the intentions behind all the work I've done to figure out what they're doing and how they do it. It's true that not everybody will care, but I like working with people that do, so sometimes, maybe it's best it didn't work out immediately. And who's to say it won't work out later, you know?




AlexanderSchiborr said:


> And your introductory letter is fine to read but the question is how authentic is that really? Do you think that somebody you don´t know will buy that anyways? I don´t know if I would buy that, but thats just me.



It probably doesn't feel authentic when you see things like "[insert name here]." But wouldn't it be pretty nice to see an email like this come in?

Hey Alexander!

My name's Daniel and I recently heard your track, THE STARCHILD, and absolutely loved it! The programming you did on that (and tracks like _Le Nozze di Figaro)_ are fantastic! I just spent the past hour listening to your music and am really connecting with the quality of work you do.

I’m curious to know if you’re looking for remote recording sessions. The team at my recording studio and I loved_ The Starchild_ so much that we got a handful of musicians to play a pass for you to layer into your programming. I did a rough mix for you to hear what it sounds like. If you’re interested, I’d love to further explore these ideas with you to see how I can contribute to your next track!

What are your thoughts on all this?

Lastly, do you go by Alex or Alexander?

Kind regards,
Daniel Ciurlizza | Recording Engineer
Session Recording Studios | 510.555.1234​Assuming that recording and mix sounded pretty good... wouldn't you at least entertain the idea? Personally, I find it so hard to say no to people that show they're absolutely willing to do the work.

I'm really asking about whether you go by Alex or Alexander, by the way.



AlexanderSchiborr said:


> And you would have always some work to do and that means work for free because you had to create all those custom demos which is time consuming if you want to make really good demos.



I like writing music for the sake of writing music (especially to a good story), so I don't mind. Worst case scenario, I've spent time on a track I can use for licensing or as part of my portfolio. Regarding working for free, I just think of it as a long-term investment. There's always another way to get paid.

I'm essentially approaching this exactly with your idea in mind:



AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Imho make friends with people who you share similiar tastes, goals and ideology. I try to surround myself with such individuals. It is not always going to be that you work together but from my experience it happens quite often. But that is not the intention to connect with others, it is the intention in first place to share similiar interests to something specific.



I'm in it for the long term relationship. I'm in it for the storytelling and the cool people. This whole process is just one way to make friends with people I'd enjoy sharing ideas, solving problems, and making cool art with. It's my way to let them know I love what they're doing enough to spend time on whatever they're looking to do.


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## dciurlizza (Sep 24, 2018)

douggibson said:


> Hmmm......something odd about these posts.
> 
> Anyhow, I just wanted to chime in and say I have heard from a few aspiring composers they tried the hounding people on Kickstarter route, and got banned from the site.
> 
> Also.... most of these tips are fighting for the bottom of the barrel. Sounds exhausting.



That's true, re: Kickstarter - lots of folks spray-n-pray emails/DMs with "asks" rather than the standpoint of bringing something of value to the table.

What's odd about the post? Also, what part of this do you feel like it could be fighting for the bottom of the barrel?



LowweeK said:


> More seriously, it seems like a daunting job to get the suggestions done, with probably very little return.
> While this is something I might do at a lower scale since I'm hobbyist, I don't really picture professionals hard pitch this way...



It's true that there's a risk of there being no immediate returns, but the long term gains (fun relationships built, money, awesome projects, etc.) are worth it to me. It's not for everyone, but if I had the chance to find a project to pitch, I'd definitely do it this way again.


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## Desire Inspires (Sep 24, 2018)

dciurlizza said:


> That's true, re: Kickstarter - lots of folks spray-n-pray emails/DMs with "asks" rather than the standpoint of bringing something of value to the table.
> 
> What's odd about the post? Also, what part of this do you feel like it could be fighting for the bottom of the barrel?



Bro, don't worry about that. Sell your message. Those that want to critisize will do so. Those that become inspired will use your tips to their advantage. Most will do nothing. So just do what you do. No harm, no foul.

Thanks for sharing. Do you have a Twitter page?


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## dciurlizza (Sep 25, 2018)

Thanks for writing all that out @still_lives.



still_lives said:


> But I think it requires a good deal of tenacity, and also a great deal of luck. And it's a lot of work to craft 20 pitches and make 20 demos, only to get no response from 19 of them because they simply aren't in need of your services in the first place.



I think it's more tenacity, luck, _and_ doing the right things according to what the project requires. That last part is how the scale tips from less people responding, to more people responding.



still_lives said:


> it's not just Kickstarter that frowns upon relentless self-promotion; on the internet, especially, there's a fine line between tenacity and spam.



I agree. My process of finding projects is less about self-promotion, and more about figuring out what sort of value I can bring to the table - with or without me as part of that solution - which is why the scale tips. What some people have missed in the past when reading this is that I do all this with the intention of boosting the filmmaker's career, with or without me as part of that immediate picture. I think that's why it works out... with luck, sure, but also beyond it.



still_lives said:


> building an online presence that contributes positively to the community can be the best



This, among other things, is my favorite thing you've mentioned.


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## LamaRose (Sep 25, 2018)

Thanks, Daniel, for taking the time to post some thoughts and ideas... and I agree with your general gist, you have to hustle in this economy, regardless of your profession.


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## dciurlizza (Sep 25, 2018)

Desire Inspires said:


> Why work hard as hell for someone else’s project?



Because I really like working with people and seeing them win. In my experience, cool and innovative things happen with teams of people rather than with any single individual.



Desire Inspires said:


> Bro, don't worry about that. Sell your message. Those that want to critisize will do so. Those that become inspired will use your tips to their advantage. Most will do nothing. So just do what you do. No harm, no foul.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.



Appreciate that! I'm not offended or anything. I'm not even looking to sell my message. In fact, from a competitive standpoint, it's probably better if most people decide this wouldn't work for them and _don't_ use this. Either way, it doesn't negatively affect my life. I developed this process for myself, saw that it worked out the way I wanted it to for 6 years, and thought it could be helpful to others. So I'm sharing it in hopes of contributing something valuable to the community.

Additionally, if people do decide on using it and are successful at it, it's all upside for me. I get the satisfaction of helping someone, and maybe they get inspired to share things that have worked for them too.

Thanks for your kind words!



Desire Inspires said:


> Do you have a Twitter page?



Yup! I'm at @DanielCiurlizza


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## Jeremy Spencer (Sep 25, 2018)

I guess it's an interesting self-promo method, but I personally wouldn't have the time to scour the internet for such projects and write fully produced clips (locked to picture)....just to pitch to a cold prospect. If you have all the time in world, and no bills to pay, that may work for your business model. Not to mention, you might be stepping on toes and coming across as arrogant in the process. Just my 2 cents.


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## dciurlizza (Sep 25, 2018)

LamaRose said:


> Thanks, Daniel, for taking the time to post some thoughts and ideas... and I agree with your general gist, you have to hustle in this economy, regardless of your profession.



Thanks a ton, Tad! And thanks for taking the time to let me know!


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## InLight-Tone (Sep 25, 2018)

I think there's a product launch coming somewhere down the pike...


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## dciurlizza (Sep 25, 2018)

InLight-Tone said:


> I think there's a product launch coming somewhere down the pike...



You've found me out - my 7 page e-book is coming out tomorrow for $9,999.99

Jokes aside, I wrote this version of the article with my teammates in mind:












And the reason I share ideas from this on here or the Perspective FB group is because I find a lot of happiness in helping people do the things they want to do.

Honestly, if I think about all the things I'd have to do to create a Multi-Level Music Marketing*™* course: spending months setting up a website, planning the lead generation funnel, figuring out how payments would work, doing a follow-up course, etc.

...it just doesn't sound fun.

It's much easier and way more fulfilling to talk with you, or spend a day or two writing a trailer track for a similar payout, or create a 3 minute demo to send straight to a filmmaker whose work I love.


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## Dear Villain (Sep 25, 2018)

Thank you, Daniel, for this information, and your positive outlook on things.

To address the scepticism and cautious tone some have shared with regard to these and other posts Daniel has made, I am reminded of a friend of mine who was a TV sportscaster, with a big voice, and an intensity about him that often drew attention in public. He was a genuinely positive person and when he would meet people, he'd look them in the eye, and ask them questions, taking keen interest in their story. I would introduce him to a friend of mine over lunch, and he'd treat them like they were a famous celeb, showering them with attention and essentially making the entire conversation about them.

Often, people would tell me that he was "fake" or had an agenda, or was just plain weird. It is rare that a stranger will take this kind of interest in another human being, but after twenty years of knowing him, I knew there was no agenda, other than he was one of those people who genuinely enjoys human interactions and making people feel good about themselves. Rarely did he receive the same care from others, but I made it a point to always be as much a friend to him as he was to me. 

That said, as musicians, we tend to have our guards up even more than the average person. With the endless exploitation of artists, internet marketing gurus promising to give you the secrets to success, and endless opportunists preying on the vulnerability and hope of artists desperate to break through, I can understand how Daniel's approach might leave people expecting him to "launch a product" (which he very well might). Would people's responses be different if he said up front: "I'm Daniel, and I'm trying to find a career path/money making opportunity by sharing/selling information that musicians might find helpful." I can't answer this for you, but I suspect Daniel is closer to my friend's outlook than to many of those predatory marketing people trying to take your money.

Keep sharing if you choose, Daniel!

Cheers,
Dave


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## dciurlizza (Sep 25, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I guess it's an interesting self-promo method



More so than self-promo, it's about showing up to a team prepared with valuable materials. It's the idea that you're ready for action and are in it for the project to succeed. That in itself is definitely good self-promo though!



Wolfie2112 said:


> fully produced clips (locked to picture)



There likely wouldn't be a full clip to be found in public, which is why that demo (which covers a wide range of themes/ideas based on what we've been able to find) works so well.



Wolfie2112 said:


> If you have all the time in world, and no bills to pay, that may work for your business model.



It's a great process when you've got your eye on a specific project you'd like to do, which saves time searching for a project.

Having all bills paid is always great when investing time in something that doesn't have immediate returns, but I've also done this whole thing as a consequence of needing to pay bills.



Wolfie2112 said:


> you might be stepping on toes and coming across as arrogant in the process



The hope is that whoever is sending the materials is doing so genuinely in the interest of the project receiving them. Otherwise, it starts to get too similar to low-effort emails saying "can I score your film, here's a link." When I go through this process, I'm in it for the filmmaker to make a cool film - with or without me. I don't think that mentality is absolutely required to work on things we love, but I've found that it gives a nice boost to building long-term relationships.


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## InLight-Tone (Sep 25, 2018)

I do like your attitude, and if genuine, it's rare, and I will be tuning into your posts. Guess I'm a bit jaded from being on the net all these years...


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## Jeremy Spencer (Sep 26, 2018)

dciurlizza said:


> Having all bills paid is always great when investing time in something that doesn't have immediate returns, but I've also done this whole thing as a consequence of needing to pay bills.



And has it been providing a steady income? I doubt it. The only crowd this will appeal to is the smaller, Indie filmmakers. Like the previous poster mentioned, it comes across more as soliciting. But if it works, then all the power to you. I do admire your optimism though! Seriously.


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## dciurlizza (Sep 26, 2018)

@douggibson, thanks for writing all that out, truly.



douggibson said:


> For reasons of copyright lawsuits a lot of projects simply can't accept demos.



This is super important and something worth including as a footnote to Step 2 or 3. I've seen more of this with studios that work on higher-level/bigger budget projects, which are the types of projects I haven't pitched for with this method. _This_ process focuses on indie films because I'm comfortable with the results after 6 years and near 100 projects.

Here's my disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer (and I'm not sitting next to one either). I like putting a seatbelt on when I drive... others don't. I like spending time and money on things when my gut tells me they might be fruitful (and I'm okay with being wrong about them when they're not)... others don't. *Everyone needs to make their own decisions.*

Adding to your point, many sites that do produce higher-level work tend to have some sort of related legalese on their contact page (or whatever their terms of service equivalent is). I've seen disclaimers that said something along the lines of "by sending us your IP you're also agreeing that you can't sue us for anything that we release and looks/feels/sounds vaguely similar to your IP."

And even if they don't have that, I'm with you in that - for the worst case scenario - it can, at the very least, be seen as inconsiderate or unprofessional. And, maybe at the very most (I'm not a lawyer), it might lead to legal headaches for the very company we were trying to help. It's important to be aware of all this.

All that considered, in combo with what my experience has actually been...

The indie filmmakers I contacted with this process really loved it. People will always be people - we all have similar human wants and needs at all levels of our industry. So while I haven't tried this "upfront demo" process at a higher level, I do regularly work at that higher commercial level (thanks to building strong relationships, word of mouth, agents, etc.). And my gut tells me that, if I use this process with larger projects, I'd have a lot more positive experiences than I would negative ones.

But that's _my _experiment to get into because I'm an optimist and I like taking calculated risks.

Really appreciated your comment, Doug.


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## dciurlizza (Sep 26, 2018)

Dear Villain said:


> Thank you, Daniel, for this information, and your positive outlook on things.
> 
> To address the scepticism and cautious tone some have shared with regard to these and other posts Daniel has made, I am reminded of a friend of mine who was a TV sportscaster, with a big voice, and an intensity about him that often drew attention in public. He was a genuinely positive person and when he would meet people, he'd look them in the eye, and ask them questions, taking keen interest in their story. I would introduce him to a friend of mine over lunch, and he'd treat them like they were a famous celeb, showering them with attention and essentially making the entire conversation about them.
> 
> Often, people would tell me that he was "fake" or had an agenda, or was just plain weird. It is rare that a stranger will take this kind of interest in another human being, but after twenty years of knowing him, I knew there was no agenda, other than he was one of those people who genuinely enjoys human interactions and making people feel good about themselves. Rarely did he receive the same care from others, but I made it a point to always be as much a friend to him as he was to me.



Dave! Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to explain all that. Man, just from the few times we've interacted on here, I can feel that you approach everything with good spirits. It makes me happy and I really appreciate it.



Dear Villain said:


> That said, as musicians, we tend to have our guards up even more than the average person. With the endless exploitation of artists, internet marketing gurus promising to give you the secrets to success, and endless opportunists preying on the vulnerability and hope of artists desperate to break through, I can understand how Daniel's approach might leave people expecting him to "launch a product" (which he very well might). Would people's responses be different if he said up front: "I'm Daniel, and I'm trying to find a career path/money making opportunity by sharing/selling information that musicians might find helpful." I can't answer this for you, but I suspect Daniel is closer to my friend's outlook than to many of those predatory marketing people trying to take your money.



I've most definitely seen self-described gurus regurgitate strategies without actually putting them into practice beforehand. Calling them out can be simple: ask them how they learned their strategies, why they work, or what to do _after_ it works.

The "regurgitators" tend to deflect elaborating on strategies (memorizing a script is easy). The real ones will go into detail or, if they're asked something they don't know, actually say "I don't know."

In any case, I totally get where people are coming from when I post these long, suspiciously well-formatted posts. I think "writing copy" is fun, and marketing/business is as much an art as music to me. But I get excited to talk about people's doubts and questions (even the spicy ones!).

I'm ultimately not trying to prove anything... just looking to offer advice that might help people.

And for the record, I have zero interest in launching e-books or online courses to film composers right now. But I might in the future! I'm completely open to that. What's exciting to me is finding ways to hire my friends and people in my community, sharing work, or helping them get their own work.

Thanks again for taking the time and for being such a cool guy, Dave. Means a lot to me.


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## dciurlizza (Sep 27, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> And has it been providing a steady income? I doubt it.



You're right to doubt it, because the answer is "no, it doesn't."

The goal behind this isn't to make a lot of money from the process by itself, it's to get the projects we want to do and _maybe_ make some money (in addition to everything else we do as composers).

While using this pitching process, I was also building my relationship with sample libraries, working on trailer music and other commercial works, helping my filmmaker friends on their films, etc. Even earlier than all that, I was pitching and working a non-musical part time job.

The majority of us diversify our skills and sources of income as composers, because no single process will bring us a steady income.

I want to be candid, so I'll break down my experience - maybe it'll help others decide on whether it's worth doing this or not:

*Between 2010 and 2012*, fresh out of music school, I started "working" as a "professional" composer. I had zero idea how to get more projects (besides word of mouth), and even less idea about how to make money through music. If I did make money through music that year, it was likely _very_ little. So I started on my process of figuring out how to get projects.

I learned different ways of pitching myself and connecting with filmmakers. A lot of that was still "do you need a composer," which also meant I wasn't making much money with music. I started to think through what a good process would be for finding projects and pitching filmmakers...

I tested different methods and finally figured out that, among other things, searching "short film" on YouTube and contacting people there really worked out (which is why it's still in the current process).

It worked so well, that...

*In 2013*, I graduated from $100's to $1,000's in music. 30% of my overall income now came from this (still primitive) process. The rest came from my non-music part time job. But let's keep things real - I was still thousands below the US Federal Poverty Level.

*2014* - I kept working on developing the process. 37% of my income now came from this process (directly from this year's pitches, and indirectly from last year's pitches), the rest was non-music part time job.

During this year, I made surveys for filmmakers to fill out so I could learn what their hopes, fears, and dreams were. They're the exact same as any artist (make great art + steady money), go figure. What those surveys did help me realize was that I needed to stop focusing on what _I_ wanted to achieve, and start helping them achieve _their_ goals.

That was the tipping point for me. I started caring more genuinely about others and became more generous with my time/music...

*2015* - 100% of my income came from this process (again, directly from this year, and indirectly from the pitches of previous years). I quit my non-music job.
*2016* - 15% of my income came directly from this process. The rest was commercial/trailer work, which was the indirect result of pitches I did previous years. I also hired my first consistent teammate this year.
*Early 2017* - I stopped using the process because I no longer had to actively find work.​
The relevance of this process has been a bell curve for me. It went from "somewhat useful and building momentum" to 100% of my income. Then, as I diversified, I needed it less and less until it wasn't useful to me anymore.

To explain the percentages further (because 37% of ZERO is still ZERO), it's worth mentioning that the dollar amounts consistently doubled and tripled since 2013.

This is why I think it's worth sharing this process with others... because I went from not scoring enough or making enough money, to being very happy with my progress.

I just think playing the long game in this career is smart, and this process does exactly that. It relentlessly asks us to do the hard work and focus on the value we're bringing to the people we work with. Going back to this:



Wolfie2112 said:


> The only crowd this will appeal to is the smaller, Indie filmmakers. Like the previous poster mentioned, it comes across more as soliciting.



I mentioned that I haven't tested this exact process enough with people/studios working at a higher-level, so I honestly don't know what it'd be like. That said...

In my experience, if we're focusing on bringing value to someone, it doesn't matter if you're an indie filmmaker or a summer blockbuster director. If it's true genuine value, that intention has - at the very least - major potential for being well received by the person on the other end.



Wolfie2112 said:


> I do admire your optimism though! Seriously.



Appreciate that!


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## dciurlizza (Sep 27, 2018)

InLight-Tone said:


> I do like your attitude



Thanks! Appreciate you saying that.



InLight-Tone said:


> if genuine, it's rare, and I will be tuning into your posts. Guess I'm a bit jaded from being on the net all these years...



I absolutely understand where you're coming from with that.


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## Greg (Oct 2, 2018)

Thanks for sharing your approach! Always fun to dive in and chat about this topic that we all ponder. It's great advice for composers who want to take that route and pitch themselves out there like salesmen. Nothing wrong with that hustle but I think it's well over done these days and sort of the lowest hanging fruit for trying to score a gig because it's the most obvious. 

I like the approach of creating work that you love, and getting it out there online. It's quite uncanny how the right people somehow manage to stumble upon it, even as a random youtube video amongst millions. The best part is, you spend 95% of your time developing your skills and potential. That's what will get you more gigs than anything else in my opinion. Plus you'll have a nice catalog of music to build up some passive income with.

It's basic human psychology that people want things that they can't have, and don't care about things handed to them with no effort. The cold call & work for free approach immediately devalues your talent, time, and music. Why would anyone respect and value your work if you throw it out there for free in the first email? Do anything you can to get the client to take the first leap and reach out to you. It gives you the advantage in every way.


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## Kony (Oct 2, 2018)

Greg said:


> Thanks for sharing your approach! Always fun to dive in and chat about this topic that we all ponder. It's great advice for composers who want to take that route and pitch themselves out there like salesmen. Nothing wrong with that hustle but I think it's well over done these days and sort of the lowest hanging fruit for trying to score a gig because it's the most obvious.
> 
> I like the approach of creating work that you love, and getting it out there online. It's quite uncanny how the right people somehow manage to stumble upon it, even as a random youtube video amongst millions. The best part is, you spend 95% of your time developing your skills and potential. That's what will get you more gigs than anything else in my opinion. Plus you'll have a nice catalog of music to build up some passive income with.
> 
> It's basic human psychology that people want things that they can't have, and don't care about things handed to them with no effort. The cold call & work for free approach immediately devalues your talent, time, and music. Why would anyone respect and value your work if you throw it out there for free in the first email? Do anything you can to get the client to take the first leap and reach out to you. It gives you the advantage in every way.


Great post Greg - agree with you 100%


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## dciurlizza (Oct 2, 2018)

Greg said:


> Thanks for sharing your approach! Always fun to dive in and chat about this topic that we all ponder.



Thanks Greg! I agree - love exploring these things. Appreciate you taking the time to write your thoughts too, man.



Greg said:


> I like the approach of creating work that you love, and getting it out there online. It's quite uncanny how the right people somehow manage to stumble upon it, even as a random youtube video amongst millions. The best part is, you spend 95% of your time developing your skills and potential. That's what will get you more gigs than anything else in my opinion. Plus you'll have a nice catalog of music to build up some passive income with.



I love this concept a whole lot and you've executed on it _so_ well on YT. In fact, I'm willing to bet I first saw your videos back in 2011 - 2012 when I first started exploring the cinematic music world!

This has gotta be one of the best ways I can think of to make ourselves stand out as film composers... and it's mostly because it puts us beyond "film composer" and into the realm of "Artist." It's no accident when we see music producers doing scores for films; it's the perfect combo of bringing in a unique perspective and leveraging a known brand.

Ultimately, doing this proves that we can do the work and gain attention by our own volition and with our own resources. It's the same reason a good proof-of-concept film gets picked up.



Greg said:


> Why would anyone respect and value your work if you throw it out there for free in the first email?



When people have done this for me, it took the guesswork out of wondering/testing if they were going to be culturally compatible additions to our team. That time saved (and having the work for a project already started) is super considerate of them and valuable to me, and I have a lot of respect for people that work with this sort of initiative and drive. I'm a sucker for efficiency and generous people.

I do it for the exact same reasons; I find happiness in showing people that I respect their time, love their vision, and am in it for their success. And I didn't use this pitching process to contact _every_ filmmaker, I used it to contact the ones whose work I loved so much I just had to work with them.



Greg said:


> The cold call & work for free approach immediately devalues your talent, time, and music.





Greg said:


> Do anything you can to get the client to take the first leap and reach out to you.



I agree with becoming so valuable to society that the client takes the first leap to reach out. That said, I also like the idea of being able to do all of it: create standalone work we love, pitch filmmakers, charge a lot of money, and work for free. At this point in my career (which really is an important variable for others to consider), it seems like all of those things can add value to a career.


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## dciurlizza (Oct 22, 2018)

dciurlizza said:


> *SUBJECT LINE:* [Name], how can I contribute? [or, “Love [FILM TITLE] – how can I help?”]
> 
> Hi [Filmmaker] (or [Company Name] Team),
> 
> ...



We're starting to test this process again, so the email template has evolved. I'm editing the template in the original post to reflect the new one. Quoting the old email template here so that we have a history of changes.

Also removing the following from the same section:



dciurlizza said:


> Feel out who your audience is with this. Sometimes being more free and flowy with what you're saying is better than a traditional email with an "office" vibe. Saying something like "dude, you made a helluva film with this!" can be great if it's genuinely _you_, and the right eyes are reading it.


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