# (Solved... I hope) Audio Interface drops out when ANY drive is in use



## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 15, 2022)

Hi!

I'm wondering if I can get any guesses or clues for my audio interface cuts off (audio gets cut and comes back after a few seconds) whenever anything is loading or happening on any of my drives? 

For instance - it's especially bad if I move something from one drive to another, like a large amount of libraries. While that happened I got cuts about every 10-20 seconds continuously!

Now I'm formatting a new drive that I didn't even have till yesterday to NTFS and it's happening constantly, every 5-10 seconds. I can barely work.

It also happens when loading libraries till they are completely finished loading, not a big issue but that's how I noticed it.

Although it also happens without me explicitly doing anything but much less often, every few minutes. That could be because of course there is always a drive in use somehow here and there.

It actually started after doing a system reset due to many other problems.

I tried the latest driver and the previously installed version, tried another USB port...

I'm not fully sure it's also happening when using the OS drive - of course it's always in use, but it seems to be about heavier/explicit read/write actions. Can't test it now because it formats the drive for quite a while and as I mentioned it's every 5 seconds right now, so nothing to test there - will update!

thanks!


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## fakemaxwell (Mar 15, 2022)

Search for "power plan" in the Start Menu. What is your computer set to? You want it on High or Ultimate.


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## Elrik Settee (Mar 15, 2022)

Get a powered usb hub, bigger wattage as you can. Plug the drives into the hub.

The hub in computer may well be failing to deliver enough power for the drives AND kb.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 15, 2022)

fakemaxwell said:


> Search for "power plan" in the Start Menu. What is your computer set to? You want it on High or Ultimate.


It's set to the PC manufacturers (scan) own plan. I'm sure they maxxed it out and I also always had it like that since I got the PC and never had issues...


Elrik Settee said:


> Get a powered usb hub, bigger wattage as you can. Plug the drives into the hub.
> 
> The hub in computer may well be failing to deliver enough power for the drives AND kb.


Oh yea, it's possible. I have a lot of drives and other stuff plugged in, almost all hubs in use + extension. 
I also just unplugged one of the SSD's and don't have the problems anymore. 
Seems a bit random though because before I did have the issues with less stuff plugged in... will keep an eye on that and keep in mind/try the powered hub, thanks!


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## rhizomusicosmos (Mar 15, 2022)

Hmm, is your audio interface USB bus powered or does it have its own power supply?


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## SergeD (Mar 16, 2022)

Sometimes ago, I had audio interface cuts off and could not find the source of the problem, even with the help of the LatencyMon utility software. But Microsoft Defender was grabbing more CPU and RAM than usual. Then, instead of a quick scan, I initiated a full scan of the system and everything came back to normal.


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## storyteller (Mar 16, 2022)

DarkestShadow said:


> It's set to the PC manufacturers (scan) own plan. I'm sure they maxxed it out and I also always had it like that since I got the PC and never had issues...
> 
> Oh yea, it's possible. I have a lot of drives and other stuff plugged in, almost all hubs in use + extension.
> I also just unplugged one of the SSD's and don't have the problems anymore.
> Seems a bit random though because before I did have the issues with less stuff plugged in... will keep an eye on that and keep in mind/try the powered hub, thanks!


Power draw can fluctuate based on devices and if the hard dives are being used at the same time, etc. The bigger issue is that power distribution problems can (and inevitably will) damage your devices and hard drives. Priority number 1 should be to get an adequately powered usb hub. There are powered hubs that are inadequately powered… so make sure you get one with all the juice available. Also, I plug my audio device directly into the computer and bypass any Hub.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 16, 2022)

rhizomusicosmos said:


> Hmm, is your audio interface USB bus powered or does it have its own power supply?


My interface is USB powered. Starting to look a lot like power supply issues!


SergeD said:


> Sometimes ago, I had audio interface cuts off and could not find the source of the problem, even with the help of the LatencyMon utility software. But Microsoft Defender was grabbing more CPU and RAM than usual. Then, instead of a quick scan, I initiated a full scan of the system and everything came back to normal.


So if I understand correctly a full scan with Win Defender just fixed things? Odd...


storyteller said:


> Power draw can fluctuate based on devices and if the hard dives are being used at the same time, etc. The bigger issue is that power distribution problems can (and inevitably will) damage your devices and hard drives. Priority number 1 should be to get an adequately powered usb hub. There are powered hubs that are inadequately powered… so make sure you get one with all the juice available. Also, I plug my audio device directly into the computer and bypass any Hub.


Yea... I'll definitely get a good hub now! Looking very much like power supply issues. I also get a lot of disk dropouts even when not doing too much and on every single drive too... so no faulty drives.

My interface is always plugged into the computer. But so are 3-4 drives and a bunch of other stuff! I'd understand if it struggles with power then XD


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## cel4145 (Mar 16, 2022)

DarkestShadow said:


> It's set to the PC manufacturers (scan) own plan. I'm sure they maxxed it out and I also always had it like that since I got the PC and never had issues...
> 
> Oh yea, it's possible. I have a lot of drives and other stuff plugged in, almost all hubs in use + extension.
> I also just unplugged one of the SSD's and don't have the problems anymore.
> Seems a bit random though because before I did have the issues with less stuff plugged in... will keep an eye on that and keep in mind/try the powered hub, thanks!


Another solution could be to install an internal SSD instead of using the USB powered one. Then you wouldn't be running off the USB.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 16, 2022)

cel4145 said:


> Another solution could be to install an internal SSD instead of using the USB powered one. Then you wouldn't be running off the USB.


that's a bit scary for me! I'm ultra clumsy and would probably break everything...


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## cel4145 (Mar 16, 2022)

DarkestShadow said:


> that's a bit scary for me! I'm ultra clumsy and would probably break everything...


If you have a tech savvy friend who has built their own computer, you could get them to help. Installing an SSD is pretty easy as long as your power supply on your computer has the cable for it.

Alternatively, this can be a great way to connect bare SSD drives to a computer. It connects via usb, and it has its own power supply.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0711L68MS/


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## rhizomusicosmos (Mar 16, 2022)

If you can install the drives internally, on either the SATA or PCI-E bus, then you will be taking some of the heat off USB -- both in terms of power and data. This should improve sample load times, too. And you might save some money on buying powered hubs.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 29, 2022)

I got a powered hub (5V/2A, seems to be standard for a lot of hubs when looking up others, although there seem to be tons of ways of measure power, very confusing) with 4 ports, interface and 3 drives attached.
Dropouts get MUCH worse and constant.
I also have audio dropouts when rendering and freezing now, which means it might be impossible for me to do stems still I have the problem resolved... I have stems to deliver in the next 2-3 days...
Disk keeps getting red and sample drop out on all drives, together with the interface.
Just about every sample cuts off after holding it for more than 3 seconds or when playing lots of notes.

Strangely even the internal system drive seems to have problems. There are NO dropouts... BUT the Kontakt meter keeps jumping to around 90% and back down to zero when using samples stored on it.
But since there are no dropouts and often the Task Manager doesn't agree with the Kontakt meter (showed no usage increase several times when Kontakt said it's up to 90% for a second) I am not sure I'd consider it a problem. Might have to learn how to build SSD's into the computer! USB starts the scare me.

Out of desperation I might just buy whatever good powered hub I find in a store but aside from that I'm pretty much clueless.

Here a video. It has nothing to do with any library, it happens regardless of what I use. The drive is not the problem either, I also used a backup drive (ssd too, different developer!) and played with the same patch and got the same dropouts.


UPDATE:
I still get the same issues even without the interface plugged in!
It's completely removed from the machine but I still get these disk overloads and audio drops.
I thought maybe it sucks to much power and I could get a cable for it...


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## SergeD (Mar 29, 2022)

First of all, you should ensure that the problem does not occur from your audio and peripheral setup :





Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks


LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks



www.resplendence.com





The OS has its reasons that the reason ignores.


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## cel4145 (Mar 29, 2022)

DarkestShadow said:


> I got a powered hub (5V/2A, seems to be standard for a lot of hubs when looking up others, although there seem to be tons of ways of measure power, very confusing) with 4 ports, interface and 3 drives attached.
> Dropouts get MUCH worse and constant.
> I also have audio dropouts when rendering and freezing now, which means it might be impossible for me to do stems still I have the problem resolved... I have stems to deliver in the next 2-3 days...
> Disk keeps getting red and sample drop out on all drives, together with the interface.
> ...



Your SSD's do not seem to be a hardware problem. Unless you are running them all near full. SSD performance typically starts degrading over 70% full. And if you were running them over 90%, they would slow down a lot.

I also would run memtest86 to make sure that maybe you don't have a faulty RAM stick. I had a bad RAM stick one time that only showed up as a problem with heavy memory applications. Because Windows and smaller programs would all load on the good stick. 









MemTest86 - Official Site of the x86 Memory Testing Tool


MemTest86 is the original self booting memory testing software for x86 and ARM computers. Supporting both BIOS and UEFI, with options to boot from USB.



www.memtest86.com





In fact, I'm the techie in the family. And over the last twenty years, the most common hardware problem I have seen on my computers and my family has been a bad memory stick. 

So it's kind of wild guess. But it's easy to rule out by running memtest86. It does take a while to run the memory test, as it does really push the memory hard and checks every bit of it.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 29, 2022)

Latency Mon was mostly green... although after running it for almost 50 minutes it got into a darker green and warned about potential problems.
But it was juuust above the threshold of being ok. On my old machine I had BLOOD RED values and not nearly as heavy drop outs as on this one, especially not when running a single instance of a piano library as I tried in the demo video.

I also experimented by only attaching a single drive (even to a hub without electricity plugged in) and had no dropouts at all and it never got higher than maybe 6-10%.
Then I added another and despite it not being used actually BOTH drives had insane spikes up to 100% almost constantly. In this case I actually plugged in the electric cable of the USB hub for power supply as was suggested here and sounded reasonable.
But... nope, not working. In the light of that I doubt it's just latency by a process.

EDIT: The same drive under the same conditions that was fine with 6-10% now is dropping out like nuts. Only 1 drive on my computer + audio interface and small stuff... previously I was running 3-4 drives plus the other stuff without such problems.. seems so random...

A problem might be that I checked all my 3 external SSD's (all 3 new from Samsung T5) with Disk Genius and all of them had a pattern of "severe" blocks, which is the final stage before the most severe "damaged". Which is incredible, I bought the drives less than 3 weeks ago.
Maybe they were so quickly damaged by power supply issues? I had up to 5-6 drives and other stuff connected when initially moving my stuff from the old ones to the new ones.

The issues mostly started after resetting Windows, which is odd too. So it's hard to tell if it's because of the reset or because I was moving my stuff and had lots of USB action.



cel4145 said:


> Your SSD's do not seem to be a hardware problem. Unless you are running them all near full. SSD performance typically starts degrading over 70% full. And if you were running them over 90%, they would slow down a lot.
> 
> I also would run memtest86 to make sure that maybe you don't have a faulty RAM stick. I had a bad RAM stick one time that only showed up as a problem with heavy memory applications. Because Windows and smaller programs would all load on the good stick.
> 
> ...


I actually did a memory test via the computers own menu... not sure if it was the same thing but machine internally, don't remember exactly what it was called.
It took unbelievably long, many many hours... with no problems detected.
But I'll run it soon, thanks!
Actually most of my SSD's are rather full. Can't justify the cost otherwise. Still not red but probably 90% regardless... but they are brand new and the old ones were even fuller (probably 97-99% over many months) and I never had much dramatic issues.


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## Elrik Settee (Mar 29, 2022)

my guess based on my own similar experience? external spinny drivers failing, lost count of how many I sent back under warranty. 

you need a beefy powered hub like this one ...

On sale on anazon now, Anker is a reputable brand ...

"Anker 10 Port 60W Data Hub with 7 USB 3.0 Ports and 3 PowerIQ Charging Ports for Macbook, Mac Pro/mini, iMac, XPS, Surface Pro, iPhone 7, 6s Plus, iPad Air 2, Galaxy Series, Mobile HDD, and More"


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## cel4145 (Mar 29, 2022)

DarkestShadow said:


> I actually did a memory test via the computers own menu... not sure if it was the same thing but machine internally, don't remember exactly what it was called.
> It took unbelievably long, many many hours... with no problems detected.


In that case, it checked it well enough. As long as it ran all of your sticks, I wouldn't run it again. Any long involved memory test like that would have picked up a problem.

It would also be worth looking at how to install an SSD in your computer. It's not very hard.


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## rhizomusicosmos (Mar 29, 2022)

Ah, since your USB SSDs are Samsung T5s you can't just shuck them and install them internally. That's a shame.

But I am beginning to wonder if you are having an issue elsewhere. You said you reset Windows. Are all the correct drivers installed? No problems flagged in Device Manager?

Some other Windows 10 tools you can check (if you haven't already):
Administrative Tools: Event viewer/System (look for any critical events that might be disk related)
Resource Monitor/Disk Activity

I've been using the free version of Process Lasso, which has reduced occurrences of glitches in my Dell laptop. It's a CPU management tool but might help with diagnosis of your problems if they aren't completely disk-related. The "Performance" mode basically turbocharges the machine while "ProBalance" analyses processes to optimise their priority.








Bitsum. Real-time CPU Optimization and Automation


Real-Time CPU Optimization and Automation. Keep your PC responsive during high CPU loads and automate process settings with rules. Apps run YOUR WAY!




bitsum.com


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## Lionel Schmitt (Apr 2, 2022)

I managed to resolve the situation by going to Device Manager and uninstalling "portable devices".
I just clicked each drive listed and uninstalled the driver. Not disabled - uninstalled!

The I also clicked "scan for hardware changes" in the "action" tab in the Device Manager.
After that they appeared again as portable devices. But the issue remained. I still have a few spikes but not nearly as high (not over 50% and no dropouts). Maybe some mid range spikes is normal SSD activity.

I found the lead here where the problem is also explained in more detail https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...e59-9c49-4280-83a1-1b6d4cefeeee?page=1&auth=1

And more https://www.drivereasy.com/knowledge/fixed-high-cpu-usage-by-wudfhost-exe-in-windows-10/

I hope the issue remains solved, I just did it maybe 8 hours ago... I did all that before but still had a few spikes after.. but now it worked. Maybe it's about also doing the "scan for hardware changes" in the Action tab.

Here just for fun an image of what I was facing.. it got very bad within days after posting and gave me sleepless nights and a roughly 28 hours day trying to work and export stems. Every spike lead to a dropout of just about every sample and audio file, even when streaming from the OS (audio files at least).
I probably should replace all the drives... they are probably damaged from the torture by an official windows service.


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## cel4145 (Apr 2, 2022)

DarkestShadow said:


> I probably should replace all the drives... they are probably damaged from the torture by an official windows service.


SSDs are not mechanical. Doubtful it did any harm at all to them.

That being said, maybe it's time to learn how to install an internal SSD


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## Lionel Schmitt (Apr 2, 2022)

cel4145 said:


> SSDs are not mechanical. Doubtful it did any harm at all to them.
> 
> That being said, maybe it's time to learn how to install an internal SSD



I'm planning that and ordered 2 already, just gotta figure out how to put them in. Will check a bunch of content, thanks!


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## cel4145 (Apr 2, 2022)

DarkestShadow said:


> I'm planning that and ordered 2 already, just gotta figure out how to put them in. Will check a bunch of content, thanks!


Here's one tip. I know a lot of people get nervous the first time because they're afraid that some of the components inside can be damaged simply by being touched.

Nope. You don't have to worry about that. Everything inside is pretty hardy. Other than you don't want to static shock some of the interior components.

But that is easily alleviated by simply touching the metal chassis of the case before touching the components inside. If there's any static shock in your body, it will dissipate into that.

That, and I don't recommend wearing nylon or wool socked feet (no shoes) on carpet while working inside a computer 😄


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## storyteller (Apr 2, 2022)

DarkestShadow said:


> I'm planning that and ordered 2 already, just gotta figure out how to put them in. Will check a bunch of content, thanks!


That is probably a good decision. You’ve received a lot of good advice, which will hopefully help you solve it. You are going to do great w the ssd installation.

I do hope you still consider one of those beefy hubs recommended earlier as well. The fact that one drive plugged in to it worked without issues leads me to think there is still something happening with your hub. 7 ports with 60 watts for a power supply is about right when it comes to power distribution. I’ve included a power explanation that I hope is easy to understand. Another thought I had is that I have several t5 drives for video purposes. While connected to cameras, they transfer the data at the fastest rate. But, for the life of me, I cannot get them to transfer data on my macs with any consistency. I’ve tried new cables… which seems to solve it temporarily, then they eventually fail. So… that’s something to consider.

=================================
THE USB HUB POWER REQUIREMENTS QUICK MATH
=================================
Formula: watts = amps x volts

You know that the USB hub suggested earlier in this thread has 7 separate 5v ports up to 2 amps each. It also has 3 separate high speed ports for charging. We will exclude those for a moment since they will get whatever power is remaining. So the math is: 

watts required = 7 x ( 2 x 5).

This means that if all seven ports are using the max power draw (this is a very unlikely scenario), then it will require 70 watts. You can check your device requirements and see that the usb standard for a 3.0 device is only 900ma (0.9 amps). Many usb2 devices just draw 500ma… or 0.5 amps. So for seven usb3 devices, it would only ever use at max power consumption 7 x (0.9 x 5)… equaling only 31.5 watts. This means a 60 watt supply is more than enough juice here for your devices plus additional quick charging.

Lastly, you don’t want to reach the theoretical peak of your power supply. For example, I would not want a 35 watt power supply in this scenario at all for safety.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Apr 4, 2022)

storyteller said:


> That is probably a good decision. You’ve received a lot of good advice, which will hopefully help you solve it. You are going to do great w the ssd installation.
> 
> I do hope you still consider one of those beefy hubs recommended earlier as well. The fact that one drive plugged in to it worked without issues leads me to think there is still something happening with your hub. 7 ports with 60 watts for a power supply is about right when it comes to power distribution. I’ve included a power explanation that I hope is easy to understand. Another thought I had is that I have several t5 drives for video purposes. While connected to cameras, they transfer the data at the fastest rate. But, for the life of me, I cannot get them to transfer data on my macs with any consistency. I’ve tried new cables… which seems to solve it temporarily, then they eventually fail. So… that’s something to consider.
> 
> ...


Thank you!
I have about zero understanding for any kind of math so I can only understand the conclusions.

I already bought 2 somewhat cheap powered hubs because I got entirely lost trying to look things up. Based on the logic - any of these is better than none. 

The drive overload and dropout issue was resolved by uninstalling portable devices in the device manager and clicking scan for hardware changes in the actions tab on top.
So it was a windows service that caused me the incredible havoc.
Actually that one drive only worked without issues once.. eventually even the single drive connected to the hub with power had the same issues, because it seems it never was about power.

But still good to know, I wasn't aware of USB power being a thing or important at all!


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## Lionel Schmitt (Apr 6, 2022)

well, I will never mess with anything inside the computer again!

Now I under wonder what can happen when you have a ripped/bare Sata power cable inside your computer.
I hope it won't explode.


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