# Is VSL Ensemble Pro worth it for single machine?



## Bunford (May 8, 2017)

I have a single machine and use Studio One as my primary DAW. 

I have some templates that have umpteen tracks and been wondering if VSL Ensemble Pro will add anything in terms of streamlining my DAW and adding stability.

Is it worth having and using if I dont intend to use a slave machine?


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## Mihkel Zilmer (May 8, 2017)

I'd say mostly yes, though there's a small caveat.

The upsides:
- VEPro is super efficient, and does an excellent job at sharing workload between CPU cores.
- You will be able to switch between projects without needing to reload your samples.
- In case your DAW happens to crash, same deal, no need to reload samples.
- VEPro 6 also allows you to disable individual channels that you might not be using in the current project.

The only possible downside I can think of is that you'll most likely need to add 1x buffer to your latency. However, you *might* be able to run your DAW at a lower buffer because of the gains in efficiency. Only way to know for sure is to test it out. As far as I know VSL offers a 30 day free trial for all of their software products, so why don't you give it a go and see if it's a good fit?


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## Mihkel Zilmer (May 8, 2017)

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> As far as I know VSL offers a 30 day free trial for all of their software products, so why don't you give it a go and see if it's a good fit?



I double checked, this is only true if you already own a VSL product..


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## Bunford (May 8, 2017)

Am i right in thinking then that VEPro essentially acts as an independent host for Kontakt instances and you just use the VEPro plugin within Studio One to connect to the host?


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## Mihkel Zilmer (May 8, 2017)

Precisely. Though you're not limited to Kontakt, it'll run any VST plugin. 
You can also do some (or all) of your mixing in VEPro, and use any FX plugins you want etc. 
Plus you can automate all of these things from your DAW.


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## Bunford (May 8, 2017)

Just been reading up a bit and seems to be a lot of posts on forums etc about confusion between a standalone mode and a server mode. What's the difference there?


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## Mihkel Zilmer (May 8, 2017)

I assume that by standalone they mean having a separate computer, separate audio interface and then routing the audio back over MADI or similar. Doesn't really apply to your situation. But perhaps I'm misunderstanding what is meant here. 

In either case, server mode and audio over LAN is what most people, myself included, use.


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## kitekrazy (May 8, 2017)

Any you never know that someday you might add another machine.


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## Bunford (May 9, 2017)

Ok. I think i am almost sold on VEPro. Just a couple of final questions.

How does it work o terms of routing? I would prefer to do my mixing with Studio One. Is it a case of MIDI tracks in Studio One run into VEPro server and throuvh VEPro mixer back into audio tracks in Studio One? Or is it best to run them directly into bus tracks in Studio One?


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## Chris Hurst (May 9, 2017)

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> I double checked, this is only true if you already own a VSL product..



Strange - I was able to test it without owning any of their products (other than the Kontakt Factory Library). After testing it I bought it though, as there was a discount at Audio Deluxe immediately afterwards, which was lucky for me!

However, I would have bought it regardless, as it improved performance for me on a single machine.

Contact VSL and I'm sure they'll help you out with a demo licence. You do need an E-licencer though I believe.


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## Mihkel Zilmer (May 9, 2017)

Bunford said:


> Ok. I think i am almost sold on VEPro. Just a couple of final questions.
> 
> How does it work o terms of routing? I would prefer to do my mixing with Studio One. Is it a case of MIDI tracks in Studio One run into VEPro server and throuvh VEPro mixer back into audio tracks in Studio One? Or is it best to run them directly into bus tracks in Studio One?



You can choose to do either - you can have individual audio returns for all of your instruments, or you can choose to group them and send them back to a bus. I have seen occasional reports of some DAWs performing worse with very large numbers of audio returns. Unfortunately I have no experience with Studio One, so can't comment there.


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## novaburst (May 9, 2017)

Bunford said:


> Is it worth having and using if I dont intend to use a slave machine?



A complete waste of time and effort, VEpro is not a problem solver, they don't give you 3 licenses just for the fun of it.

Sorry for being so blunt,

Do your self a favour get your self a 16 core machine with lots and lots of ram....... or get your self a cheap server and stick VEpro on it but don't kid yourself.


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## Symfoniq (May 9, 2017)

I've stopped using VE Pro on my single machine, mainly because Cubase 9 and ASIO Guard seem to have problems with it. Of course, YMMV.


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## Confuzzly (May 9, 2017)

novaburst said:


> A complete waste of time and effort, VEpro is not a problem solver, they don't give you 3 licenses just for the fun of it.
> 
> Sorry for being so blunt,
> 
> Do your self a favour get your self a 16 core machine with lots and lots of ram....... or get your self a cheap server and stick VEpro on it but don't kid yourself.



I completely disagree with this. I use VEPro on a single machine with 64gb of ram, and I consider it probably the single best music-related purchase I've ever made.

No more 30-45 second auto-save times interrupting my composing. No more waiting 15 minutes for samples to load every time I switch between projects. The performance does seem to be a bit better, and something I noticed in my pre-VEPro days was that when I reached higher RAM usage, Cubase would slow down to the point of barely working. With VEPro, my RAM usage is limited solely by what my PC can handle, rather than Cubase.

I consider VEPro to be invaluable to any template oriented workflow regardless of whether or not a slave is being used. Of course if you aren't using a large template,I suppose it may not be as useful.

Sure, it's not a "problem solver" on its own, but it has saved me a ton of time and effort over the 1 1/2 years I've had it, and I'd say it was 100% worth it.


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## NYC Composer (May 11, 2017)

I use it with a slave and also on one machine. It improves my CPU performance on a single machine


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## meradium (May 11, 2017)

If you run it on a single machine don't save on the number of CPU cores... A simple quad can get you into trouble as the software might fight for its cut... This is currently my key issue on OSX while on Win 10 everything seems to run just fine (Disclaimer: OSX runs as a Hackingtosh then...)


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## devonmyles (May 11, 2017)

You can demo it for 30 days. You don't need any other VSL samples or software to do this.
What you will need though, is their VSL key/dongle or the Steinberg elicenser (syncrosoft).
I use it on one W10 machine and it works great for the various reasons mentioned above.
No reported problems for me on Cubase 9.


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## Ashermusic (May 11, 2017)

novaburst said:


> A complete waste of time and effort, VEpro is not a problem solver, they don't give you 3 licenses just for the fun of it.
> 
> Sorry for being so blunt,
> 
> Do your self a favour get your self a 16 core machine with lots and lots of ram....... or get your self a cheap server and stick VEpro on it but don't kid yourself.



Could not disagree more, unless you are a person that does not like working from templates.


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## novaburst (May 11, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Could not disagree more, unless you are a person that does not like working from templates.



Not a big fan of templates, and purge this and that,

I build as I work, so when I return the next day to work on a piece that is my template,

Still I do not believe it is worth it to purchase VEpro just for templates on a single unit again waste.

Ii understand studio one the Daw in question is CPU heavy, but still if you have single machine use your Daw as template, 

Never the less I respect your opinion and the rest of the world, it's just me

VEpro comes into full power when on servers, no point in IMHO to use if your only going to get a small benefit.


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## robh (May 11, 2017)

I am running VEPro on one machine with Logic X as my DAW. In my experience, it has extended my computer's abilities by a noticeable amount - meaning significantly less dropouts and core overloads. Which means less track freezing / bouncing in order to continue working. That's basically the reason it was worth it to me. If you are not experiencing stuff like that, then perhaps it is not worth your while at this time.

Rob


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## reddognoyz (May 11, 2017)

yes. definitely


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## reddognoyz (May 11, 2017)

novaburst said:


> A complete waste of time and effort, VEpro is not a problem solver, they don't give you 3 licenses just for the fun of it.
> 
> Sorry for being so blunt,
> 
> Do your self a favour get your self a 16 core machine with lots and lots of ram....... or get your self a cheap server and stick VEpro on it but don't kid yourself.



Not for me at all. VEP is a much more efficient host vs. my DAW (DP) I agree with Mr Asher and it has been born out to me many times. It is not a waste of time for me!


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## JaikumarS (May 11, 2017)

Symfoniq said:


> I've stopped using VE Pro on my single machine, mainly because Cubase 9 and ASIO Guard seem to have problems with it. Of course, YMMV.


Seriously? I have been testing VE Pro6 with Cubase Pro 9.0.2 update on my single machine. So far so good with Kontakt. I have no issues.


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## novaburst (May 11, 2017)

robh said:


> I am running VEPro on one machine with Logic X as my DAW. In my experience, it has extended my computer's abilities by a noticeable amount - meaning significantly less dropouts and core overloads



Composers are using single machines for very large templates, and demanding orchestral work but the units are very powerful, they are not using VEpro just there DAW, no freezing or bouncing, just horse power,

I can understand perfectly when your saying it has made your machine more efficient and now you freeze less tracks than before, yes go for it

there are many reasons why people prefer single machines and they get along quite comfortable with out VEpro.

I will yield and say use it how you feel its best for you, but my advice if I am allowed, would be if your circumstance allows would be at least two more machines for orchestral work, or a very powerful single unit.

My experience is that VEpro excels when its on servers.

There is great coding and script work that has gone into that program so would agree with you that the benefits are more than just a server.


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## dcoscina (May 11, 2017)

It's been a godsend for DP since it's still not optimized for handle a lot of VIs internally. When using Cubase I find I'm better off loading VIs directly into it however


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## dcoscina (May 11, 2017)

reddognoyz said:


> Not for me at all. VEP is a much more efficient host vs. my DAW (DP) I agree with Mr Asher and it has been born out to me many times. It is not a waste of time for me!


Totally agree. for DP it's almost esssential


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## samphony (May 11, 2017)

I think it's a godsend for a lot of workflows especially for play and Kontakt related libraries. Imagine reloading a cue with 100 of libraries and starring at the Kontakt "loading" dialog until you have access to you daw. 

If a composition or cue is not full of hundreds of tracks filled with K5 and play libs you might be fine loading everything inside the daw.


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## Øivind (May 11, 2017)

I use VEpro on a single machine just so i do not have to deal with Cubases insanely long savetimes. That alone is worth it for me. Also, it looks cool and is easier to manage than the Cubase mixer, for me  Also, if you ever want to expand to a slave or two, you can.


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## novaburst (May 11, 2017)

oivind_rosvold said:


> That alone is worth it for me. Also, it looks cool and is easier to manage than the Cubase mixer, for me  Also, if you ever want to expand to a slave or two, you can.



I never new so many using VEpro on single units, very surprised, I guess I will need to eat my words, do you get the disappearing act when you click on page, presuming you have Cubase 9, if you do how do you cope with that or has VEpro 6 fixed this

just saw your signature


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## John Zuker (May 11, 2017)

Can't speak for every DAW, or yours specifically, but profound performance difference for me as a Logic user.


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## Mihkel Zilmer (May 11, 2017)

novaburst said:


> I never new so many using VEpro on single units, very surprised, I guess I will need to eat my words, do you get the disappearing act when you click on page, presuming you have Cubase 9, if you do how do you cope with that or has VEpro 6 fixed this
> 
> just saw your signature



Not sure what you mean by disappearing act? But if you are referring to audio drop-outs with VEPro, as reported by many users since ASIO Guard came into play, then this can be resolved by disengaging the ASIO guard for VEPro in the Plugin Manager in Cubase. Depends on your buffer settings, as ASIO guard on Low seems to work for some people - personally I've had to turn it off altogether as having it on seems to cause conflicts and effect stability.


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## novaburst (May 11, 2017)

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> Not sure what you mean by disappearing act?



Oh no nothing to do with audio, so when your mixer is out then you click on the page icon in VEpro to bring up your vst, the mixer in your Daw would disappear, until you click page again to hide the vst, then your mixer would come back

I am wondering if this is bug or a VEpro 5 issue


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## davidgary73 (May 11, 2017)

Using on one machine with Logic + Ve Pro made a huge change in my workflow. 

Even tho i have a 12 core machine, Logic can't handle as many V.I's like Ve Pro does. It made a huge performance leap for me. I reckon getting a PC slave with the latest i7 CPU, 64GB Ram and SSD will take it to a whole new level


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## novaburst (May 11, 2017)

davidgary73 said:


> Using on one machine with Logic + Ve Pro made a huge change in my workflow.
> 
> Even tho i have a 12 core machine, Logic can't handle as many V.I's like Ve Pro does. It made a huge performance leap for me. I reckon getting a PC slave with the latest i7 CPU, 64GB Ram and SSD will take it to a whole new level



12 core is big, this is like a server merged together just give VEpro 6 or more cores and you have an all in one server, 

It's this type of machine that prevents the need of a server


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## Mishabou (May 11, 2017)

novaburst said:


> Not a big fan of templates, and purge this and that,
> 
> I build as I work, so when I return the next day to work on a piece that is my template,
> 
> ...



VEP pro handles VIs way better than any DAW that i've used (PT, DP, CB and Live). On my nMP, i can easily load 40% more patches by using VEP vs any of the DAW mentioned.


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## davidgary73 (May 11, 2017)

novaburst said:


> 12 core is big, this is like a server merged together just give VEpro 6 or more cores and you have an all in one server,
> 
> It's this type of machine that prevents the need of a server



Am really happy with the 12 core but even with this much core, i have issues using heavy V.I's in Logic Pro with CPU overloads etc. This is without Ve Pro. 

Then i learn about Ve Pro and wow..everything took a big leap and i can use as many as i want without having to worry about CPU overloads anymore. Best investment ever 

Unfortunately, my old 12 core Mac can't compare with the new i7 CPU's which can do heaps more hence i'm planning to build a PC as slave for more power


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## novaburst (May 12, 2017)

davidgary73 said:


> hence i'm planning to build



This is the step I would encourage all to do you will definitely fly.



Anhtu said:


> VEP pro handles VIs way better than any DAW that i've used (



Never looked at VEpro as a single unit product, always in my head was VEpro =server✓

But if you have big CPU it's quite easy to understand how VEpro can take advantage of this on a single machine, 

I guess VEpro is a must have program with or without a server the benefits are very real

Those coders are wizards


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## IoannisGutevas (May 12, 2017)

Im using VEPro in a single machine and its the best investment i have ever done. Getting the workload off your DAW means that you dont have to worry in getting the buffer high from the polyphony of using many Kontakt or other vis. That way you can use more plugins in the DAW and more virtual instruments on VEPro. Also the cpu managment of vepro is just amazing and the auto raise function and the design of VEPro 6 is.. soooo sweet!


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## Øivind (May 12, 2017)

novaburst said:


> I never new so many using VEpro on single units, very surprised, I guess I will need to eat my words, do you get the disappearing act when you click on page, presuming you have Cubase 9, if you do how do you cope with that or has VEpro 6 fixed this
> 
> just saw your signature



I don't think i have used this option actually. I have VEpro on one monitor and Cubase on another, and when i had just 1 monitor i just alt-tabbed between them, i did not know of this feature hehe, if i remember, i will try it when i get home.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 12, 2017)

I don't know how any composers can work without VEPro these days...especially when scoring multiple cues for a production. The last production I worked on had 75 sound cues (which I set up as individual projects), I can't imagine having to load the whole template every time I opened one of the cues. With VEpro, you only load everything once...set it and forget it


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## devonmyles (May 12, 2017)

novaburst said:


> Ii understand studio one the Daw in question is CPU heavy, but still if you have single machine use your Daw as template,
> 
> Never the less I respect your opinion and the rest of the world, it's just me



If that is the case, novaburst (Studio One is CPU heavy). That would be a good argument to use VE Pro 6 on one machine and
host everything outside of ST1, hence taking the load from the DAW. Or are you meaning something else ?
Just curious


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## novaburst (May 12, 2017)

devonmyles said:


> If that is the case, novaburst (Studio One is CPU heavy). That would be a good argument to use VE Pro 6 on one machine and
> host everything outside of ST1, hence taking the load from the DAW. Or are you meaning something else ?
> Just curious



This is me in my early disagreement of single machine with VEpro, amazing how post can sway the mind


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## devonmyles (May 12, 2017)

novaburst said:


> This is me in my early disagreement of single machine with VEpro, amazing how post can sway the mind



Oh, Ok.
I was just a little bit late to the party then.
No worries - Carry on.


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## dog1978 (May 13, 2017)

I've done a few tutorials:


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