# The most disturbing school activity I've seen in quite some time



## Resoded (Nov 13, 2011)

Here in Sweden a theater has created a play based on the SCUM manifesto, (society for cutting up men) written by Valerie Solano, a mad woman who hated men and tried to kill three.

There are plenty of cute quotes from the SCUM Manifesto, but basically it's about men being animals and beneath women and deserve to be eradicated. This manifesto has been cheerfully glorified by feminists here in Sweden (in the normal media) as a wonderful piece of art about female pride and more.

This play is now put into the schools for children in their late teens and is mandatory. The basic play is that when the school kids are lead into the room, they are split up. The girls are given cushions and treats and the guys get to sit on a wooden bench. The actor comes in spewing hatred over the guys, acting out all the hatred that Solano described in her manifesto. That masculinity is the source of all evil and deserve to die basically.

This play is described as wonderful and inspiring by the media in sweden.

This is why I hate sweden, this is why I want to move to a country where people are relatively sane. This is shocking, even by my standards and I'm used to feminist crap here in this country. Back in the days when I was in school, similar things were on the agenda, but this takes the cake.

How would you guys feel about raising your boys in a country where this is normal?

I google translated an article:

http://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pellebilling.se%2F2011%2F11%2Fskolbarn-ska-titta-pa-valdsamt-angrepp-mot-manligheten%2Fcomment-page-4%2F%23comment-41570&act=url (http://translate.google.se/translate?sl ... 70&amp;act=url)

edit: Oh, and by the way, did I mention that this play is funded by the government (tax money)?


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## Ed (Nov 13, 2011)

wow... that is crazy O_O


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## Udo (Nov 13, 2011)

I pity Julian Assange (Wikileaks), who has to appear in court in Sweden soon on sex related charges, which, even if true, are apparently not offences in other countries.


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## Resoded (Nov 13, 2011)

Udo @ 13th November 2011 said:


> I pity Julian Assange (Wikileaks), who has to appear in court in Sweden soon on sex related charges, which, even if true, are apparently not offences in other countries.



Sweden has the most fantastic idea of rape in the world. You see, if a woman agrees to sex, has sex but changes her mind the day after. It's rape. It's true, I'm not kidding.

By law, the man must have a written or spoken proof that she agreed to sex to be safe.

Because in Sweden, the most gender equal country in the world, a man is guilty until he is proven innocent. And in all fairness, even if he's imprisoned, he's got to be guilty right? He's a man.

We also just the other week had a child pornography case with a ring of one man and 30 women sharing child pornography. The man was sentenced to jail because he "convinced the women to accept the photos", even though itäs proven that the women asked for photos, and one of them even sent their own nude photos of grandchildren. And yes, only the man was sent to jail.

Such a marvelous country this is. Who needs safety in courts when you can have feminism?


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## Resoded (Nov 13, 2011)

Oh, and by the way, did I mention that this play is funded by the government (tax money)?


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## Ed (Nov 13, 2011)

I had no idea Sweden was so fucked up :S

We in the English speaking world dont know about it because we dont speak your language I guess.


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## Ed (Nov 13, 2011)

Just looked this up:

Part of the SCUM Manifesto:



> "SCUM will become members of the unwork force, the fuck-up force; they will get jobs of various kinds an unwork. For example, SCUM salesgirls will not charge for merchandise; SCUM telephone operators will not charge for calls; SCUM office and factory workers, in addition to fucking up their work, will secretly destroy equipment. SCUM will unwork at a job until fired, then get a new job to unwork at.
> 
> SCUM will forcibly relieve bus drivers, cab drivers and subway token sellers of their jobs and run buses and cabs and dispense free tokens to the public.
> 
> ...



This almost reads like a terrorist handbook. They are inciting people to commit crimes!

Even murder apparently!



> Simultaneously with the fucking-up, looting, couple-busting, destroying* and killing*, SCUM will recruit. SCUM, then, will consist of recruiters; the elite corps -- the hard core activists (the fuck-ups, looters and destroyers) and the elite of the elite -- the killers.



This women was totally insane, it amazes me anyone takes her seriously :S


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## Resoded (Nov 13, 2011)

Ed @ 13th November 2011 said:


> I had no idea Sweden was so fucked up :S
> 
> We in the English speaking world dont know about it because we dont speak your language I guess.



Trust me on this, it's worse than you could ever imagine.

There's only one political party that is not feminist, and they are widely hated as racists. No wait, two, the christian democrats party are also not feminists, but not opposed either.

In swedish law, the documents concerning pre-school and kindergarden says: "The teachers will work against traditional gender roles" and many child books were the main character is a boy/man hero are removed form the shools, and any books were women are portrayed in the kitchen are removed aswell and replaced with either genderless books or books with female heroes. Also, many kindergardens force boys to play woth dolls and girls to play with cars etc. Government records also state that "Gender is a social construct".

As far as I'm concerned, feel free to invade Sweden, level the government buildings (or everything) with the ground and build K-Marts or whatever instead. I'm sure it'll be an improvement.


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## Resoded (Nov 13, 2011)

Ed @ 13th November 2011 said:


> Just looked this up:
> 
> Part of the SCUM Manifesto:
> 
> ...



Some of those who defend this play claim that the SCUM manifesto is satire. Yeah.... right.

And some claim that it should be taken literally. Many of these radical feminists write for the big newspapers and are well respected by the media elite.


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## Ed (Nov 13, 2011)

Oh wait here's another quote:



> "SCUM will kill all men who are not in the Men's Auxiliary of SCUM. Men in the Men's Auxiliary are those men who are working diligently to eliminate themselves, men who, regardless of their motives, do good, men who are playing pall with SCUM."



So this women, who went out a shot Andy Warhol to make good on her word, is calling for* all men to be exterminated* and for women to *by acts of violence and destruction destroy our monetary system and society.*

*How is this not a terrorist movement???*


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## Ed (Nov 13, 2011)

Resoded @ Sun Nov 13 said:


> As far as I'm concerned, feel free to invade Sweden, level the government buildings (or everything) with the ground and build K-Marts or whatever instead. I'm sure it'll be an improvement.



The only way to get this to stop is to get a lot of English speaking people to realise what is going on and get the word out. Make some kind of viral video or something, then people will start talking about it, etc... Turn it into an international embarrassment. ... I am quite sure the reason it hasnt happened yet is because no one knows its happening


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## Resoded (Nov 13, 2011)

Ed @ 13th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Sun Nov 13 said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I'm concerned, feel free to invade Sweden, level the government buildings (or everything) with the ground and build K-Marts or whatever instead. I'm sure it'll be an improvement.
> ...



There are several all over the internet. American youtubers, swedish etc.

There's also one thing to consider and that is the fact that the UN and the european union are both well in line with many feminist ideas. Actually, a well known swedish feminist who has written a document often quoted on "Male mastering techniques", ways than men use to put women down, she is currently working in the european union, affecting decisions.

Also, feel free to look up Amnesty and similar charity organizations. Many of them direct funds specifically to helping women and girls in war torn or poor countries, not boys or men though.

This is much bigger than just sweden, even though sweden is the leader of the pack.

For some reason feminism grew much stronger here than it did is the US for example. Above and beyond reason.

edit: For example. I don't remember if it was the UN or EU, but they put some pressure on the netherlands because they had less women working full time. The women in the netherlands said themselves that they don't want to and that they can take care of themselves, basically giving them the finger. Here in sweden though the excuse is that the women in the netherlands don't understand and that need to be taught more about feminism to understand.


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## paoling (Nov 13, 2011)

We finally sent the big boss back to his harem; I can almost welcome the crisis because of that...

But, I think that some malsanity is present in every country and this is the price point we got to face for calling our country "free".


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## vasio (Nov 13, 2011)

wow that is seriously fucked up. you don't have to live in country where men are vilified and emasculated so women can feel okay about themselves. my advice? move since theyre spawning another generation with those same distorted beliefs.


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## paoling (Nov 13, 2011)

And there's the terribile thing that someone say and write very terrible things with light heart, ignoring that someone in the country could be very very inspired by those terribile ideas. There's the extreme right-wing in the whole Europe that is getting more and more people, and it's terribile that something like the WW2 and the nazism are so easy to forget.


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## paoling (Nov 13, 2011)

I said terrible 4 times -.-


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## Ed (Nov 13, 2011)

Anyone who supports this, apparently has to support murdering every single man on the planet and bring down society with violence and destruction (and destroy "useless cars" apparently)

Thats all you really need to say regarding that SCUM manifesto. That is what she was calling for and then she tried to murder Andy Warhol which shows she really meant it.


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## Resoded (Nov 13, 2011)

Ed @ 13th November 2011 said:


> Anyone who supports this, apparently has to support murdering every single man on the planet and bring down society with violence and destruction (and destroy "useless cars" apparently)
> 
> Thats all you really need to say regarding that SCUM manifesto. That is what she was calling for and then she tried to murder Andy Warhol which shows she really meant it.



But it's all meant in good fun though, right. Kind of like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryTYt9jl-4A which happened not so long ago.

Fun fun fun.


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## RyBen (Nov 13, 2011)

That's insane.. If it was in America I'd think it was a joke but being in another country makes it slightly more believable. Boy, I'd have to be male in that country.. Hopefully they don't screw up the kids' minds. Gender equality is great but this is going WAY overboard.

I imagine if we let the damage run deeper, it'll really detriment the younger generations. Not that I'm FOR traditional roles, but I know one thing: most women aren't naturally attracted to a weak man, yet these women are trying to weaken the next generation of men. The girls won't have a good male rolemodel and males will probably have a hatred towards women because of a bad female role model.

Those radical femenists should understand that the long-term effects will only bite them in the ass. I understand that a good ass-kicking to an INDIVIDUAL is needed at times, but don't punish a whole group.


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## Ed (Nov 13, 2011)

Resoded @ Sun Nov 13 said:


> But it's all meant in good fun though, right. Kind of like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryTYt9jl-4A which happened not so long ago.
> 
> Fun fun fun.



Yea, but what you need is people like this to talk about it:


And people like Philip (SXEPhil) DeFranco.


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## Resoded (Nov 13, 2011)

Ed @ 13th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Sun Nov 13 said:
> 
> 
> > But it's all meant in good fun though, right. Kind of like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryTYt9jl-4A which happened not so long ago.
> ...




Yeah true.


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## choc0thrax (Nov 13, 2011)

We don't have anything as extreme as that SCUM thing here. It's mostly lighter more veiled stuff that chips away at us over time like commercials where the hot wife shakes her head as she watches her fat, balding, disgusting, idiot husband search around the floor like a dog looking for the TV remote he can't find etc. 

Of course rape is handled differently: http://www.stpetetimes.com/2005/11/22/T ... Lafa.shtml

Can't argue that some women are too pretty for prison. I'm sure if John Stamos raped anyone he'd be too pretty too.

We seem to be finally making headway on the cancer front though. Every November marvel as your douchebag male friends come out of the woodwork excitedly brandishing mustaches for "Movember", the male answer to that unstoppable juggernaut known as breast cancer awareness. Breast cancer, long since believed to be the only cancer due to the sexy nature of it's location, is now not the only cancer around. Steve Jobs, originally thought to have breast cancer of the pancreas, turns out just had something called pp..paa.. pancreaatic cancer. 

We aren't out of the woods yet though. Just this morning I was in Staples and I reached for a couple packs of printer paper and I shit-you-not the package was pink and had a ribbon on it. Where's the mustache version of that? I ended up buying a different brand just to avoid supporting that cause. Breast cancer has made me a bad person.


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## Udo (Nov 13, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> ..... For example. I don't remember if it was the UN or EU, but they put some pressure on the netherlands because they had less women working full time. The women in the netherlands said themselves that they don't want to and that they can take care of themselves, basically giving them [_the Swedish feminists]_ the finger.....


In general, women in the Netherlands are psychologically independent and self-secure, more so then women in most other countries I've been to (many). That's why I left (only kidding, I love'm  ).

Despite the relatively low number of full-time female workers, the standard of living in the Netherlands is higher than most, e.g. quite a bit higher than Germany's, last time I checked. That means, of course, that Dutch men must be working like dogs (figuratively speaking :wink: ), ...... maybe that's why I left ... :wink:


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## snowleopard (Nov 13, 2011)

Stunning, strange and sad. I always thought of Sweden as a progressive, independent country of good people. I had no idea it was so screwed up in this regard. 

I agree with Ed, I think this needs to get on something like 60 Minutes here in the States, and then go viral on the net, in order to embarrass the leadership in Sweden that allows something so extreme. 

Came across this article in the NYT that tries to look at the big picture. Maybe Resoded can verify, or comment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/world ... wanted=all


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## P.T. (Nov 13, 2011)

"Sweden has the most fantastic idea of rape in the world. You see, if a woman agrees to sex, has sex but changes her mind the day after. It's rape. It's true, I'm not kidding."
________________
Women have pulled this crap here in the States also.

I don't know if the cases got anywhere.

It may have happened in a university where they can screw with students ourside of the court system.


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## chimuelo (Nov 13, 2011)

Americans should take notice of this " Progressiveness."
It seems like you say OK, I'll go for the free health care, then suddenly thousands of new regulations and laws come out that say, hey you are costing us money by being unhealhty if you eat that Steak and Baked Potatoe.....
I was Progressive until recently, and then I saw what the Lawyers/Politicians can do to the meaning of a word or a law, and they just keep growing and growing to help us even more, etc.

Being an old Missouri rebel I often recall Mark Twain, and remember the one quote...........
Don't let school get in your way of an education...........

How true that is. Our public schools are a prime example of out of control growth, spending, new laws, new political correctness.....etc.
That is not progression, but rather indoctrination. 

I feel sorry now for Swedish guys. Tiger Woods should be happy his divorce was in the USA and not in Sweden.
But I hear Tigers X and her Mommy have an island now in Sweden for his disgressions.

The whole Julian Assange thing reeks of disinformation and revenge.
I thought he was an arrogant ass, but what a brave person he really is.
To leak out what he did actually shows folks just how the elites really think " off the record."

I bet Muslim guys really like Swedish gals...... :lol:


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## choc0thrax (Nov 13, 2011)

Maaybe a bit off topic but speaking of wikileaks South Park recently had an amazing episode spoofing it.

http://gawker.com/5851596/wikileaks-get ... -treatment

Lemmiwinks must kill his evil gerbil brother. Frog King, Sparrow Prince and Catata fish make appearances.


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

snowleopard @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Stunning, strange and sad. I always thought of Sweden as a progressive, independent country of good people. I had no idea it was so screwed up in this regard.
> 
> I agree with Ed, I think this needs to get on something like 60 Minutes here in the States, and then go viral on the net, in order to embarrass the leadership in Sweden that allows something so extreme.
> 
> ...



This article is written in a way that puts sweden in the best looking angle possible. Sure, it's true that feminism has brought good things aswell. For example the fact that fathers can stay home with their kids. But the question one should ask which they don't do in the article is "why?".

Feminism has long tried to make women work and men to stay home. It's a part of their view of the world, how it should be. Think about this: 

There are no laws in sweden at all discriminating against women. None. However, if you as a man get's a child with a women you're not married to, you have no rights to claim that baby as yours. She has a right to deny you custody. 

When starting up a new company, if you're a women you can apply for special money only for you to help you get going. But not if you're a man. You see the feminists hate the fact that men are more forward when it comes to these things and they will stop at nothing to get more women in businesses.

The police has used quotas for a long time, hiring women (and immigrants) with lower grades than men before those white men with higher grades. They want a 50/50 police force. Same goes with firemen. And the same goes with all interviews in the media, both interviewers and interviewed. They have said clearly that they bend over backwards trying to get women as much as possible. Especially when it's something traditionally male, like construction.

There's a lot of pressure on companies that they must have 50/50 board members. The problem is, there are so few women both qualified and willing, so every board goes crazy to find women, and often bend the rules on qualification. Same goes when hiring a CEO, must be a woman. I remember hearing American companies visiting sweden saying that the swedes were obsessed with gender. Apparently you amnericans has these crazy idea that being qualified is more important than gender. *irony*

In some news channels, especially in feminist towns like Umeå, they have really obvious feminist agendas. For example, I was there one night and saw the local news. They had 3 pieces of news: 1. A female armwrestler. 2. A construction company that made a girls day where no men were allowed and the women were all like "Oh this is so much better! Such a good attitude now". I can't remember the third but I remember that it was a feminist issue.

When the biggest political party on sweden, the social democrats, had their worst election ever in it's entire history, the female leader was kicked out. She had a knows scandal aswell, fiddling with tax things. The media procalimed that she a had been bullied because she was a woman. And now you think "yeah but some newspapers..." Oh no, ALL newspapers. You see, having half a brain and being somewhat reasonable does no exist in the swedish feminist media. And by the way, when she was chosen as a leader, they demanded a woman.

There's so much to say and so little time. I haven't even begun to mention to amount of talk about the problem with masculinity, the glorification of working women, the amount of tax money spent on gender research (it used to be named "womens studies", they changed the name but kept everything else, this gives me Soviet vibes). They for example spent several million sek on a study weather the Trumpet was a macho instrument since so few women played the trumpet. It's true. I'm not kidding: 

http://translate.google.se/translate?sl ... 2F&act=url

Birgitta Ohlsson, European affairs minister, put it this way: “Machos with dinosaur values don’t make the top-10 lists of attractive men in women’s magazines anymore.”

Ah that's the one. The radical feminist that brings feminism all over europe. Acoording to her, you netherlanders need to be educated in feminism because you guys just don't understand.


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## TheUnfinished (Nov 14, 2011)

I can't help feel there's some context missing in this thread.


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded,

I read somewhere the other day that school show's second *consists of a discussion of what we have seen. What values ​​are presented in the show? What values ​​do we learn from our upbringing? Are there differences between men and women? Why is that in this case about? Are there things girls and guys are not allowed to do because of their gender? Do we want to change the world? Why? How?*

Is this true? If it is it put's a very different light to the whole thing.

alex


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded,
> 
> I read somewhere the other day that school show's second *consists of a discussion of what we have seen. What values ​​are presented in the show? What values ​​do we learn from our upbringing? Are there differences between men and women? Why is that in this case about? Are there things girls and guys are not allowed to do because of their gender? Do we want to change the world? Why? How?*
> 
> ...



As far as I've read, no, the show itself does not include this discussion. The theater recommend schools to have a discussion afterwards. However, I've been in similar things and discussions afterwards and I can assure you that the tone is has never been to criticize feminism, but to criticize gender roles. Popular nowadays is discussing the problems with masculinity.

And weather there's a discussion or not is slightly irrelevant, the fact is that people are lead in, women treated as princesses and men treated as crap and the whole show is made glorifying a mad woman who hated men and tried to kill three.

This is not even remotely appropriate for schools. The whole glorification of a man hater and wannabe murderess as a tribute to the success of feminism is just wrong in itself.


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:
> 
> 
> > Resoded,
> ...



For me it's a deal breaker, cause as a "discussion starter" SCUM can be provocative and even funny satirical material.

I mean would it be wrong to read _ Mein Kapmf_ in schools, followed by a discussion, to better understand how and why horrible things happen in the world?
Or would you see it as "..OMG they bring Hitler in schools!!!"

alex


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

In fact, the actress said herself that when first reading the SCUM manifesto she couldn't get through it because it was too upsetting. And now they think that boys, which are the ones getting attacked here by a real person would not be upset?

The whole thing can be compared to showing schindlers list. Separate the class in jews and non jews, and then afterwards, discuss the problems with religion and the problem with jews. Though the scum manifesto is even worse since there's nothing saying that hating men is wrong. In SL it's at least obvious the the nazis are the bad guys. And it's a movie and not a real person.

And thinking further, one might wonder how the boys react to this. Why would their teachers want them to see this? The theater itself describes this as a "unprogramming", suggesting that the males are programmed to be patriarchs and need something to counter balance. In reality, what needs unprogramming is the feminist idea itself.


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:
> ...



I heard though that Mein Kampf only has one sentence in it suggesting that jews should be killed.

The whole idea of the SCUM is that men are a cancer and needs to be eradicated.

Another thing that separates the two is the fact that everybody are in line with the fact that Nazism is wrong.

However, this feminist play is being glorified as a feminist success. That's sending mixed signals, don't you think?


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Furthermore, one can ask why they don't ever do the opposite? Why not bash girls and glorify hatred against women? Wouldn't that be just as "stimulating" for conversation?

It's funny how it's always the guys that have to be bashed when it comes to equality.

Because you know what? "They are Men, and they can take it! So now let's discuss gender roles". Wtf? They assume that there are no boys who will be hurt by this because they are men and men are strong, and then they want to break up the whole idea of men being strong because they don't believe in it? That doesn't make any sense.


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> In fact, the actress said herself that when first reading the SCUM manifesto she couldn't get through it because it was too upsetting. And now they think that boys, which are the ones getting attacked here by a real person would not be upset?
> 
> The whole thing can be compared to showing schindlers list. Separate the class in jews and non jews, and then afterwards, discuss the problems with religion and the problem with jews. Though the scum manifesto is even worse since there's nothing saying that hating men is wrong. In SL it's at least obvious the the nazis are the bad guys. And it's a movie and not a real person.
> 
> And thinking further, one might wonder how the boys react to this. Why would their teachers want them to see this? The theater itself describes this as a "unprogramming", suggesting that the males are programmed to be patriarchs and need something to counter balance. In reality, what needs unprogramming is the feminist idea itself.



I think schindlers list is a great idea, but it has to be a play, otherwise it's pointless.

And as far as "unprogramming", why wouldn't it be a good topic for discussion? Gender equality/unequality is always a good topic, even in Sweden.

I'm sorry Sweden seems to have highest concentration of Scandinavia's "militant" feminists, but honestly out of two evils better that then living in a country where women are not treated equal.

One thing though:
_"The police has used quotas for a long time, hiring women (and immigrants) with lower grades than men before those white men with higher grades. They want a 50/50 police force. Same goes with firemen. And the same goes with all interviews in the media, both interviewers and interviewed. They have said clearly that they bend over backwards trying to get women as much as possible. Especially when it's something traditionally male, like construction. "_

Women and immigrants? Able "pure" white males? What's next, Jews and their fucking money? What ideology you are leaning to here?

alex


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> Furthermore, one can ask why they don't ever do the opposite? Why not bash girls and glorify hatred against women? Wouldn't that be just as "stimulating" for conversation?
> 
> It's funny how it's always the guys that have to be bashed when it comes to equality.
> 
> Because you know what? "They are Men, and they can take it! So now let's discuss gender roles". Wtf? They assume that there are no boys who will be hurt by this because they are men and men are strong, and then they want to break up the whole idea of men being strong because they don't believe in it? That doesn't make any sense.



Maybe has something to do with 1000's of years of women being oppressed, abused, mistreated and not treated as equals by males as husbands, employers, rulers, and let's not forget the cherry on the top, representatives of religious sects such as Christianity and Islam? 

Dunno...maybe has something to do with that.

alex


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > In fact, the actress said herself that when first reading the SCUM manifesto she couldn't get through it because it was too upsetting. And now they think that boys, which are the ones getting attacked here by a real person would not be upset?
> ...



The unprogramming is not meant to be up for discussion. The play and the discussion is by itself meant to unprogram.

I'm sure the last part is a misunderstanding. The fact is that when a man and a woman applies for the police and the man has slightly higher grades, the woman is often chosen. That's a fact. I believe this is wrong. Policemen should be chosen on merit and not gender.

Second.

The fact is that when a white man and a non white applies for the police and the white man has slightly higher grades, the non white man is often chosen. That's a fact. They say that they want a culturally diverse police force. I believe this is wrong. Policemen should be chosen on merit and not colour or heritage (The only excuse here is if you need specific languages in the police force).

They actively recruit people based on the colour of their skin and their gender. That is by definition racist and sexist.


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Furthermore, one can ask why they don't ever do the opposite? Why not bash girls and glorify hatred against women? Wouldn't that be just as "stimulating" for conversation?
> ...



First, are you saying that men were treated as kings? If I remember correctly, the men were the ones forcible recruited and killed in the mud fields for the kings glory. The men were working their ass off in the fields having the responsibility to support their family. So maybe people were treated unfairly, and not just women?

Second, are you suggesting that all men have a collective debt to pay for what other men have done in the last 1000 years?


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> The unprogramming is not meant to be up for discussion. The play and the discussion is by itself meant to unprogram.
> 
> I'm sure the last part is a misunderstanding. The fact is that when a man and a woman applies for the police and the man has slightly higher grades, the woman is often chosen. That's a fact. I believe this is wrong. Policemen should be chosen on merit and not gender.
> 
> ...



I fully agree that IF it's not followed by an open engaging discussion in the classroom, SCUM should be a part of school program. If it is, I think it's great idea.

As for_ "They actively recruit people based on the colour of their skin and their gender. That is by definition racist and sexist."_ that is true...on paper and in theory..unfortunately in practice you can see all over the world that it doesn't work. Take US or Russia for example, they choose police force strictly based on merit and grades and cases of racism in and sexism within the force are what?...1000 times more then in Sweden? Why?

alex


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > The unprogramming is not meant to be up for discussion. The play and the discussion is by itself meant to unprogram.
> ...



I really can't comment on what happens 1000 times more in other countries since I have no information on it. There are also many factors apart from the recruiting process that can influence the police force.

Assuming hypothetically that you're right and that merit leads to more sexism and racism, the question boils down to which is worse. Discrimination in the recruiting process or that some policemen turn out to be idiots.

The latter could be dealt with in other ways than active discrimination. The first can only be dealt with by having a fair recruiting process.

edit: Oh and the first thing you say. I could agree to some part of that. If the teachers made sure the discussion is very open, criticizing feminism and hatred against men, I think it's more ok.


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:
> 
> 
> > Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> ...



You are turning things around. People being treated unfairly has nothing to do with women not being treated equal.

It's not about the debt, that would be a scenario where we achieved gender equality globally and you still have some feminist being pain in the ass, but we didn't on a world wide level, far from it. Sweden is one of the rare countries that is achieving it, so I see it as a good sense reminder, not collective debt.

How many women physically abuse their partner?
How many men are sexually abused at work?
How many men are raped by women?
How many women hold high position in religious sects like Christianity or Islam?
How many men are sold each year as white slavery to be sexually exploited by women in strange countries?
How many men are sold as husbands to be when they are younger then 15?

unfortunately list can go on and on...and until that changes SCUM is a good book to talk about (as we can see from this thread as well i guess).

alex


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

_"Assuming hypothetically that you're right and that merit leads to more sexism and racism"_ ...No, ethnically homogenous police force operating in ethnically diverse surroundings leads to sexism and racism.


alex


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:
> ...



I'm sorry, I sincerely don't understand what you are saying at this point.

First I say that it's interesting that it's always the boys getting bashed. You counter with 1000 years of mistreatment of women. I counter with 1000 years of mistreatment by people and the belief in collective debt.

Where did you want to go with this now?


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> _"Assuming hypothetically that you're right and that merit leads to more sexism and racism"_ ...No, ethnically homogenous police force operating in ethnically diverse surroundings leads to sexism and racism.
> 
> 
> alex



So you are assuming that male whites will always have higher grades than women and immigrants? Oh my.


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

_" I counter with 1000 years of mistreatment by people and the belief in collective debt."_

Well I thought the questions are enough of a hint. 

-Women are still being mistreated by men all over the world every day.

-These abusive men were boys once.

-If "bashing boys" will raise awareness of this and help them think about the problem at young age then "bash" away.

-If "bashing boys" will help young girls understand that they should never be treated as second class species, then "bash" away.

You understand now? 

alex


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:
> 
> 
> > _"Assuming hypothetically that you're right and that merit leads to more sexism and racism"_ ...No, ethnically homogenous police force operating in ethnically diverse surroundings leads to sexism and racism.
> ...



No, but isn't that exactly what you are complaining about? Why are you assuming that you have ethnically and gender diverse police force only cause they choose women and immigrants over local white males with better grades?

_ "The police has used quotas for a long time, hiring women (and immigrants) with lower grades than men before those white men with higher grades. " _

You are the one saying right here that it's impossible to have 50/50 police force unless we discriminate white males.

alex


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> _" I counter with 1000 years of mistreatment by people and the belief in collective debt."_
> 
> Well I thought the questions are enough of a hint.
> 
> ...



Yes, thank you for clarifying. 

1. "Women mistreated by men". Well, now this is a marxist kind of statement. You divide the world in two groups and put them against each other. But in reality, only a few percentage of the men hurt women. I haven't raped, murdered or assaulted any women, or men. Have you? And in reality, you completely avoid the fact that a few percentage of the women in this world hurt men. And women/women, men/men.

In fact, it's closer to reality to state that some people hurt other people, than to say that men hurt women in general.

2. Bashing boys to raise awareness? As I've already stated, most men will never rape murder or assault. Why bash all boys when a minority of them might hurt women? And why limit the whole thing to men hurting women? Isn't it just as wrong with a woman hurting a man, or woman/woman man/man?


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## noiseboyuk (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> "Women mistreated by men". Well, now this is a marxist kind of statement. You divide the world in two groups and put them against each other. But in reality, only a few percentage of the men hurt women. I haven't raped, murdered or assaulted any women, or men. Have you? And in reality, you completely avoid the fact that a few percentage of the women in this world hurt men. And women/women, men/men.



The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1999) estimated that 91% of U.S. rape victims are female and 9% are male, with 99% of the offenders being male.

http://healthcenter.ucsc.edu/shop/sexua ... tion.shtml


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:
> ...



No no no, this is not my assumption. This is the truth. The police have said so themselves. This has been talked about somewhat in the media and some have criticized the police for it. That's why I wrote that it was a fact.

They keep doing it though, for years. And I believe it's wrong that they put gender and race before merit.

I really don't have the time to find articles though. You can go ahead and try searching for it if you don't believe me.


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:
> 
> 
> > _" I counter with 1000 years of mistreatment by people and the belief in collective debt."_
> ...



Ok, I hope you are saying this simply from not knowing the facts and current worldwide statistics about:

-Rapes
-Sex trafficking 
-Forced marriage 
-Physical abuse inside family

These are the things that today men are doing to women. Not just people to people. These crimes have gender inequality at it's core.

For fuk sake, just last week there was a story about a 13 year old girl that was sold for 1000 EUR to a Swedish family to be a bride for their mentally ill son (they thought having a girl will make him feel better). She was imprisoned and raped in their home for a full year.

_ " As I've already stated, most men will never rape murder or assault. Why bash all boys when a minority of them might hurt women? "_

And tell me how would you pick out those few that might? Height, weight, ethnicity, social class?? Or is it more likely that you can't really know who will that minority be?

alex


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > "Women mistreated by men". Well, now this is a marxist kind of statement. You divide the world in two groups and put them against each other. But in reality, only a few percentage of the men hurt women. I haven't raped, murdered or assaulted any women, or men. Have you? And in reality, you completely avoid the fact that a few percentage of the women in this world hurt men. And women/women, men/men.
> ...



Which is true. Though the question isn't how many rapists are male, it's how many males are rapists.


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:
> 
> 
> > Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> ...




Oh I believe you....but whats the solution then? Tell women and immigrants: "..tough luck get smarter." Should we really believe the grades and system that states as a fact, as you say, that white able males are smarter then women and other ethnic groups??

From what I know the actual problem is the 50/50...some times...they don't choose white able male in order to keep quota, but the accent here is on SOMETIMES...it happens simply cause 50/50 is not a natural division and the law has to put some number in. This also means that if they had too many female or immigrant applicants 
they would choose a white local guy with slightly worse grades....and you fail to mention that.

alex


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## noiseboyuk (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> Which is true. Though the question isn't how many rapists are male, it's how many males are rapists.



Not a complete answer, but one of six U.S. women has experienced an attempted or completed rape. So whatever the exact answer is, it's far too many, sadly.


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:
> ...



Aha, well when you said mistreated, I thought we were talking about all mistreatment and not just some forms of mistreatments.

Thank you though for completely ignoring what I wrote. I'm sure that it's a good way for us to have a meaningful exchange. 

Rapes: Yes, 99% male rapists. How many of the males are rapists though? Worth considering before stating that "males rape women".

Sex trafficking: Yes awful, probably 99% men there too. But again, how many men actually do this? Less than one percent? Well that's not a very good definition of males at all then! In fact, it would be closer to reality to state that "men are kind to women", because most are.

Forced marriage: Not a big fan. I'm not too well read on this, but for example in India this happens to males against their wishes too right? Ok so maybe we can consider that question a problem for males aswell then? At least a little bit?

Physical abuse inside familys: This is horrible. They have done some studies, there is a finnish study and or american /canadian study on this aswell. It turns out that women are much more likely to get hurt and more often repeatedly. It's interesting though that all the studies also concluded another thing, that women were just as likely to start using violence as men. It's interesting that no one seems to care about this. Because I would.

Also, there are many cases with women hurting their men. See my youtube link on the first page. This is something that people ignores. Why is that?

And now we're talking physical violence. What about verbal abuse and similar? I wish they made studies on that.


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> noiseboyuk @ 14th November 2011 said:
> 
> 
> > Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> ...



In Sweden in 2009 I believe it was 1,1% . I can check the data for last 2 years.

alex


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:
> ...



Nah, the white males aren't necessarily smarter. It has to do with the 50/50. There are more males that wants to be policemen. So you're right, maybe I should have mentioned that men could be favoured by this too, though it hasn't happened yet since there are more men that apply.

I think the quota itself is wrong, no matter who it discriminates against. In this case it discriminates men. When it comes to quota that discriminates women or immigrants, it's just as wrong.


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > noiseboyuk @ 14th November 2011 said:
> ...



Well there you go then. Males are nice to women, in general.

I forgot to mention your last point before. Picking on social class etc, which ones are the rapists.

The thing is, they are only yelling at the guys. Even though only 1% of rapists are girls, one third of all general violence against children is performed by women. Even though more men hurt others than women hurt others, wouldn't it, by your arguments, be just as important to yell at the girls so they don't hurt people either?

And why is it right to blame masculinity in general for rapes? As we said, only 1 % of males are rapists. I'm a man and I don't rape, so why would I deserve a yelling?

And how is it that you think that raping can be avoided just by some ranting from teachers etc? Couldn't it be that rapists actually have serious issues and need help?


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Which is true. Though the question isn't how many rapists are male, it's how many males are rapists.
> ...



That's an interesting statement. Which criterias for calling it a rape did they use?


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> Well there you go then. Males are nice to women, in general.



Right...this is the point where I don't think I can talk with you anymore.
I found the number shocking.

1.1% of male population of the whole country are rapists, and you state that this proves how males are nice in general.

This is pretty much a definition of male chauvinism.

alex


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Well there you go then. Males are nice to women, in general.
> ...



Well that's your choice. Too bad though.

Well first off, maybe I have to clarify my point once again. Men don't rape women. SOME of them do. There's a difference. In this difference isn't made by people like you.

Second, do you know what the criteria for rape is in sweden? See the first page. Did you also know that in sweden, each rape is considered as a crime, in other countries they put all rapes made by one person as another and file it as a single crime, when they hear about it.

So if the number, 1.1% is made up by taking the amount of rapes and dividing it by the population, it's very misleading.

But let's say hypothetically that 1.1% of all men are rapists. It's still not even close to reality to call men rapists. Or suggest, like you do, that it's something that "men do against women".

How is this offensive to you?


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## noiseboyuk (Nov 14, 2011)

Yes, over 1% is shockingly high. Ask yourself how many men you know reasonably well. Then wonder which of those are rapists. Can't blame some women for thinking of us that way.


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Yes, over 1% is shockingly high. Ask yourself how many men you know reasonably well. Then wonder which of those are rapists. Can't blame some women for thinking of us that way.



I think you can blame them for thinking that way.

At least 1% of women have some sort of mental diagnosis.

At least 1% of women are crippled.

At least 1% of women steal from shops now and then.

I would say that it's silly to say that women are mentally ill, crippled or thieves. Some of them are.


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## noiseboyuk (Nov 14, 2011)

...and in all of those rather strange examples to pick, the same applies to men. Rape is the only overwhelmingly a male pursuit.

I get what you're saying - most men are nice guys, and you're right. I'd hope we're treated without prejudice or malice by women. What I'm saying is I'd try to be understanding if that is sometimes not the case. 

If I may say so, I think you need to consider this a little more empathetically. 1 in 6 women are victims - 1 in ever 6 women that you personally know, perhaps. Of course there's a good chance this will colour your view of men subsequently. And also that means that a huge percentage of women will know someone extremely well who has been raped or subject to attempted rape. There is no equivalent for women threatening men - and this (potentially) is the satire of the play.


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

_"Well first off, maybe I have to clarify my point once again. Men don't rape women. SOME of them do. There's a difference. In this difference isn't made by people like you." _

So it's not a big deal? Or it has nothing to do with you? What are you saying?

And because some of them is still a high number (unless you are suggesting that handful of men raped over 4000 women in Sweden in a year) it's a good idea to remind the whole population whenever you can and however you can of how bad things are.

The focus here is on debate, information and prevention. Again, how can anyone know who those 1.1% will be ?? 

I don't think reading SCUM to kids without an explanation is bright idea at all, if anything it's really fukin stupid, but if it's used as a starting point to ignite a discussion then it's great.

alex


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## noiseboyuk (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> I don't think reading SCUM to kids without an explanation is bright idea at all, if anything it's really fukin stupid, but if it's used as a starting point to ignite a discussion then it's great.



This thread kinda bears that out, actually. After the "whaaa?!!!" and general outrage phase, we're all quoting stats at each other and trying to see the world from a woman's perspective. I agree - this is a good thing.

A brief tangent - it's such a shame there aren't more women posting on VI-C. I don't know what the percentage breakdown of working composers is male / female, but it's nowhere near as imbalanced as the membership of this forum which seems to be about 99% male. I'd rather women were here to make these points rather than me. I do know for a fact that there are female lurkers out there... perhaps the occasional fights put women off? Anyway, if any lurkers are reading this thread and have a view, please join and make it!


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ 14th November 2011 said:


> ...and in all of those rather strange examples to pick, the same applies to men. Rape is the only overwhelmingly a male pursuit.
> 
> I get what you're saying - most men are nice guys, and you're right. I'd hope we're treated without prejudice or malice by women. What I'm saying is I'd try to be understanding if that is sometimes not the case.
> 
> If I may say so, I think you need to consider this a little more empathetically. 1 in 6 women are victims - 1 in ever 6 women that you personally know, perhaps. Of course there's a good chance this will colour your view of men subsequently. And also that means that a huge percentage of women will know someone extremely well who has been raped or subject to attempted rape. There is no equivalent for women threatening men - and this (potentially) is the satire of the play.



Yeah sure, men can be included in my examples too. And yeah the examples were there to prove my point, which is, you can't judge all men by what only a few does. It's like saying "black people are criminals". That's VERY offensive. The same goes with this, saying "men are rapists" is wrong. But suddenly, when blaming all men, it's ok? It doesn't matter if even 100% of all rapists are men. It's still wrong to blame all men for what only 1 or 2 % does.

The double standard here is striking.

Again, please explain what their criterias where for that statistic.

To sum up, rape is horrible. Everything above 0% is unacceptable. And I do feel sorry for all females raped, actually, I'd rather go further and say that I feel sorry for all innocent people suffering from rape, bullying, assault or murders, and everything else to hurt them.

Claiming that "males rape women" is wrong in several ways. It does not represent reality and it's wildly offensive since the vast majority of men would never ever rape anyone.

It's wrong to yell at all boys, blaming their masculinity for raping women and other deeds. First, it's inaccurate since most men would never rape, and it's  form of collective debt, judging their gender for crimes commited by others. The only thing they have in common is their gender, and they did not choose it.

And again, it's a double standard to yell at boys for what other men do, and not yell at girls for what other women do. Feminism is all about double standards.


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> _"Well first off, maybe I have to clarify my point once again. Men don't rape women. SOME of them do. There's a difference. In this difference isn't made by people like you." _
> 
> So it's not a big deal? Or it has nothing to do with you? What are you saying?
> 
> ...



So, you get to play the drama card "I'm not even talking to you anymore" and then you come back? Is there an explanation for the use of such a destructive argumentative tactic? 

To sum up,

Anything above 0% rapes is unacceptable. Anything above 0% is a big deal and a serious issue.

It is a good idea to remind the population. It's also a good idea to offer the criminals some sort of help. I don't agree with the "however you can" statement though. I think there are limits to what you should do, and I draw the line at blaming all men and boys for crimes they are innocent of.

Prevention, well ok, that explains it because we are talking about two different things. I agree with you that being pre-emptive is a good idea withing reasonable limits. However, my concern and what I'm debating over is the fact that people blame ALL men, for crimes they have not and will never commit. And even worse, subject under age kids to that blame.

I agree that reading SCUM to kids is bad, but under the right surcumstances, as you say it could be possible to use for debate.


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## noiseboyuk (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> Again, please explain what their criterias where for that statistic.



Here's the website with the references:

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/st ... lt-victims

However the references are to academic papers that aren't online, so can't help you with the detail.


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2011)

Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:


> Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:
> 
> 
> > _"Well first off, maybe I have to clarify my point once again. Men don't rape women. SOME of them do. There's a difference. In this difference isn't made by people like you." _
> ...



Came back cause I reminded myself once again, that this is internet, and what is clear in a real discussion in 5min on internet it can take days, and a lot of things can get interpreted bad.

Who is blaming ALL men?

alex


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Again, please explain what their criterias where for that statistic.
> ...



Thanks mate! Seems that there needs to be some digging done to figure out how they got those numbers.


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## Resoded (Nov 14, 2011)

Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:


> Resoded @ Mon Nov 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Lex @ 14th November 2011 said:
> ...



Yeah I agree, we really shouldn't have this conversation like this. I'm sure we'd get along better if we stood face to face. Though most conversations like these turn out a lot uglier so I've got to give both of you creds for being good sports, even though maybe we don't agree on everything.

These are also touchy subjects.

The statement "men rape women". Radical feminists and the SCUM manifesto. And the play that separated boys from girls and spew hatred over the boys.


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