# Should I buy plugins from the same Sound Libraries to begin?



## ebirch3 (Nov 17, 2020)

Hi there!
I am starting from scratch at buying all the libraries and software for my new home studio. I don't want to spend an insane amount of money. But I am just wondering when it comes to VI sound libraries should I be starting off trying to buy a complete set. For example for cinesamples, should I try and buy the brass, strings, percussion and woodwinds all from the same library. Or should I buy strings from one (cinesamples) and brass from another one entirely (spitfire for exmaple). This might seem like an ovbious question but I am just wondering if they would sound better if I use the VI's together from the same library. My guess is yes they would as they have been recorded in the same space or something. But yeah just curious as I don't really want to buy everything just from one place as then it doesn't give me much variety. But then again if it would work better just going for at least one complete set. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 
THANKS!


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2020)

ebirch3 said:


> My guess is yes they would as they have been recorded in the same space or something.


Generally speaking, this hits the nail on the head. Also, typically, the UI of each library would behave the same, have the same amount of latency, and behave more or less the same when presented with the same MIDI / CC information in your DAW. So yes, it does make sense to get your first “big” orchestral instruments from one vendor. Have you taken a look at Spitfire Abbey Road One?


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2020)

ebirch3 said:


> But yeah just curious as I don't really want to buy everything just from one place as then it doesn't give me much variety.


Of course, this argument is equally valid. Although, again generally speaking, a “mix-and-match” best of breed kind of approach would introduce variety and different experiences (which can be very good from a learning point of view) but also a whole load of new challenges. For starters, you would have to learn two or three different UI approaches. And you would likely have to spend more time mixing, EQ’ing and fiddling around with external reverbs in order to place the different libraries “in the same space” to glue everything together.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2020)

A strategy where you’d get one professional orchestral library (such as BBCSO, Nucleus, etc) or a matching set by the same vendor (e.g Cinesamples), and for variety, some additional flavours from another vendor (a piano sample, hybrid synths, a harp, what-have-you) could be a great solution? That way for the core orchestra you’d benefit from the integration and still get to experience the VI design philosophy of one or more other vendors.


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## ebirch3 (Nov 17, 2020)

@doctoremmet Thanks a lot for your reply. Yeah this is kinda what I was thinking. But thanks for clarifying it! I think I will buy a complete set. And oh no I haven't heard of the Abbey road one. But looks pretty good! I assume you have it? How do you like it?


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## muk (Nov 17, 2020)

ebirch3 said:


> But I am just wondering when it comes to VI sound libraries should I be starting off trying to buy a complete set. For example for cinesamples, should I try and buy the brass, strings, percussion and woodwinds all from the same library.



A complete set has the advantage of presenting less steep a learning curve*. Handpicking your library for each section of the orchestra might give you a stronger set overall. As you can choose your favourite solution for each section. Complete packages tend to have one or two really strong sections, with the rest of the orchestra not quite reaching the same level. Depends on the package and personal preference of course.

If you have the chance to visit a studio somehwere and try different options, that would be extremely valuable in your situation. If you haven't worked with sample libraries before, it's extremely difficult to find out which workflows do or don't suit you, when you can't try it beforehand.



* Unless you choose Eastwest Hollywood Orchestra. While probably offering the most bang for the buck, I would advise against it for a complete beginner. The learning curve with this one is very steep. Probably too steep if you have no previous experience with sample libraries in my opinion.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2020)

To add to the number of things one needs to consider:

- do I want to have everything in Kontakt?

- do I want to gain experience with some of the other proprietary sample players out there (Spitfire’s new stuff, OT SINE, VSL Synchron Player, EastWest older PLAY environment, Plogue SFZ, HISE, UVI/Falcon, ....)

- do you value a baked in natural reverb / room sound?

- do you value highly playable and tweakable instruments (Aaron Venture, physically modelled ones such as Sample Modeling and SWAM) or do you like key switching?

- I’m sure smarter and more experienced people than me on this forum can think up more...


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## ebirch3 (Nov 17, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> A strategy where you’d get one professional orchestral library (such as BBCSO, Nucleus, etc) or a matching set by the same vendor (e.g Cinesamples), and for variety, some additional flavours from another vendor (a piano sample, hybrid synths, a harp, what-have-you) could be a great solution? That way for the core orchestra you’d benefit from the integration and still get to experience the VI design philosophy of one or more other vendors.


Yeah that's a really good idea! I like that a lot. Thanks!


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2020)

muk said:


> While probably offering the most bang for the buck, I would advise against it for a complete beginner. The learning curve with this one is very steep.


Agreed. The EWHO Diamond is GREAT value, but I must admit I still have a great deal to learn. This one is deep!


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## ebirch3 (Nov 17, 2020)

* Unless you choose Eastwest Hollywood Orchestra. While probably offering the most bang for the buck, I would advise against it for a complete beginner. The learning curve with this one is very steep. Probably too steep if you have no previous experience with sample libraries in my opinion.
[/QUOTE]


@muk So to clarify my situation a bit more. I have just graduated from university studying music technology and popular music. So I have had some experience using different libraries. I have used vienna, albion one (spitfire) and a bunch of kontakt stuff, I would say I am an intermidiate at using them. But I am now applying for an online MA in media composition. And my home set up is starting from absolute ground zero. So just wondering what way to go about making some solid purchases that will benifit me the most. I guess it comes down to a lot of personal preference as @doctoremmet has been saying. But yeah I think getting a complete set may be the best for me to avoid a super steep learning curve. Any suggestions for Orchestral libraries that are very intuative to use but still have great sounding stuff? And decently priced? I also might wait it out will black friday as I think there may be a lot of discounts! :D


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2020)

ebirch3 said:


> Yeah that's a really good idea! I like that a lot. Thanks!


I do not have the Abbey Road library by Spitfire. But it does seem very appealing. But so is their BBCSO Core offering.

A word of extra advice:

- get Spitfire LABS. Totally free and it’ll give you a good impression whether or not you like their proprietary player. The sounds are VERY good.

- look up Spitfire BBCSO Discover. They have a survey that you can fill out and they’ll GIFT you their beginner library. It is small yet VERY impressive. Again, in their own sampler. They let you wait 14 days if you want the free version. The paid version is €49. Great value really.

I am not endorsing Spitfire in any way, I’m not even a big user of their stuff. I do however have the conviction that their BBCSO and brand new Abbey Road offerings are excellent for both beginners and pros.

Some videos for you:



Brand new viral video by our own genius @Blakus, he uses a lot of Abbey Road on this:



(Warning: what you hear here is sheer TALENT, not so much Abbey Road haha)

Differences between BBCSO and Abbey Road according to Spitfire chief and overall very awesome sample guru @christianhenson:




Again, Cinesamples and other vendors also have GREAT stuff. For Cinesamples, check out @ChrisSiuMusic - he has a great Youtube channel and puts their stuff to great use. As said, I’m sure that other members will advise equally great options!

Good luck!


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2020)

ebirch3 said:


> I also might wait it out will black friday as I think there may be a lot of discounts! :D


Definitely ALWAYS buy stuff on sale.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2020)

Sorry for spamming. I haven’t mentioned VSL Synchronized Special Editions yet. Currently on a 33% off sale. Their SE1 and 2 might also be a great starting point. In case of any questions, ask for @Ben. What is cool about VSL is they’ll actually let you demo stuff AND they have a 14 days return policy IIRC.


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## Tonda (Nov 17, 2020)

I started buying libraries 6 months ago, so I'm relatively new to the business. 
My first library was BBCSO Core. It's fairly complete, sounds good and is al lot of bang for the bucks. But in the end I hated the keyswitching, and kept me from being creative. So recently I chose for Aaron Venture's Infinite Series and the Sample Modeling Strings. These libraries are much more fun to use (to me).


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 17, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I do not have the Abbey Road library by Spitfire. But it does seem very appealing. But so is their BBCSO Core offering.
> 
> A word of extra advice:
> 
> ...



Yes, Blakus is incredible. Thank you kindly!


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## Crowe (Nov 17, 2020)

I would suggest going for libraries that are *not* drenched in room tone. I prefer having dry, close mic'ed options so libraries can play well with each other no matter who created them. I don't think Spitfire is great unless you're planning to buy into them completely.

Also I have to vote against VSL for their horrifying dongle policy. Sorry Doc.


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## muk (Nov 17, 2020)

Thanks for clarifying @ebirch3



ebirch3 said:


> But yeah I think getting a complete set may be the best for me to avoid a super steep learning curve. Any suggestions for Orchestral libraries that are very intuative to use but still have great sounding stuff? And decently priced?



In that case I would look at:

Vienna Symphonic Library Special Editions. Very consistent and complete set of instruments and articulations to cover the whole orchestra. It's modular, so you can add more articulations (the SE+ expansions), more instruments (SE 2, 3 and so on). Or you can upgrade to the full library versions later on. These are dry samples though. If you don't want to dig into mixing too, you can start with the Synchronized Editions. These come pre-mixed. It's still dry samples with artificial reverb on top though, so check if you like the sound.

Spitfire BBC Symphony Orchestra Core. Covers the whole orchestra. Very nicely recorded. Not all sections are equally good though. In my opinion the brass having only three dynamic layers really is showing.

Audio Imperia Nucleus. No experience with this one, so I can't comment.

I would not recommend to choose a pre-orchestrated library if you are to buy only one. Pre-orchestrated meaning that you don't have control over solo instruments and every strings sections. But you'd have patches like 'high woodwinds' (probably a combination of flutes and oboes), 'low strings' (celli, basses, and maybe violas as well) etc. I would suggest choosing a library that has solo flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon etc. And violins 1, violins 2, violas, celli, basses.

Of course it all depends on the music you want to write. For romantic cinematic music, BBC SO would be my choice. For classical or tv music, VSL SE. For epic/hybrid music, probably Nucleus.

Me personally I would probably go the other route. I'd buy Cinematic Studio Strings and Brass, and add VSL Special Edition Woodwinds and Hollywood Orchestra Percussion. It's true, that way you would have to learn three different workflows instead of just one. The Cinematic Studio Series are fantastic value however. These are libraries that you will be using for a long time. Not something you'll graduate from and eventually replace with something better. They are consistent, quite flexible in terms of styles they are useable for, and overall just top notch products. My 2 cents, for whatever it's worth.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> Sorry Doc.


Don’t be. I am not endorsing any particular vendor. VSL is one of the options. If you hate dongles, you will not like VSL. Clear point. As I tried to point out in one of my posts above: it ultimately is a very personal choice, depending on taste, goals and personal preferences.

Btw, I am a “dry” guy myself, hence my total Chris Hein- and XSample “buy-in”. And then, somehow, I also totally adore 8dio which is a totally different breed. And every time I watch Paul and Christian do a video, I completely “get” their love for sampling the ambiance of a room. So, again, I think your preferences and mine largely overlap. I was merely trying to paint a somewhat broader picture for OP  - yet totally skipping over Cinematic Studios’ stuff haha. Thanks @muk for mentioning that. Somehow it has never enticed me and I typically totally ignore it. While I’d wager most of the forum members would mention that as their top pick. It just goes to show how subjective all of this really is.


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## Crowe (Nov 17, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Don’t be. I am not endorsing any particular vendor. VSL is one of the options. If you hate dongles, you will not like VSL. Clear point. As I tried to point out in one of my posts above: it ultimately is a very personal choice, depending on taste, goals and personal preferences.



Hah, I'm a Cubase and iZotope user. I don't mind dongle policies all that much. I just can't stand *theirs* .


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> Hah, I'm a Cubase and iZotope user. I don't mind dongle policies all that much. I just can't stand *theirs* .


Fair enough! Everyone is allowed their own very narrow and niche corner of blind hate. There are certain products and vendors that have managed to make steam come out of my ears.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 17, 2020)

muk said:


> For epic/hybrid music, probably Nucleus.


For epic/hybrid music I would choose Jaeger over Nucleus - Nucleus is a pretty decent allrounder, while Jaeger is more focused on epic music (e.g. more sound design than Nucleus but no woodwinds or solo instruments).

Out of the all-encompassing orchestral libraries I own (Albion 1, Metropolis Ark 1+2, Majestica, Jaeger, Nucleus, The Orchestra) I think Nucleus is the best allround all-in-one starter library.


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## JohnG (Nov 17, 2020)

ebirch3 said:


> So just wondering what way to go about making some solid purchases that will benifit me the most



Given your background, I wouldn't worry at all about tackling any number of proprietary players, from Kontakt to SINE to PLAY to Spitfire's player. They just aren't that hard to work with and the learning curve of the technology is pretty trivial.

What's not trivial? The time commitment to learn what a new library can do.

Instead of "which player" or price, focus on choosing the sound you like -- everything else is secondary. Using very good headphones and speakers, take your time and choose wisely. Not only does that save you money but much more importantly it saves you time. It can take a month or three to really learn what a full orchestral library can do and where it falls short. That's as true of Spitfire as of East West or Orchestral Tools -- any comprehensive library is going to take many weeks to get to know well.

Have fun! There are many good choices out there today.

[edit: one more thought. Don't fall into the trap of buying an inexpensive "starter" library unless you absolutely cannot afford anything else. If you are broke, consider the free / very inexpensive starter Spitfire BBC Orchestra library so that, at least some day, you can upgrade to the more satisfying professional version]

Kind regards,

John


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## David Kudell (Nov 17, 2020)

I suppose you’re getting a fair amount of varying advice. Not to confuse you any further, but here’s a few pieces of advice for when you’re starting out. Again this is just one guy’s opinion, though I do have a lot of libraries.

I think the myth that all your libraries need to match is not really true. Most composers I’ve talked to agree this is a non issue. You just need to get a reverb plugin (I suggest Seventh Heaven) and apply that in varying amounts and it will all sound fine together. For example, dryer libraries you’d add reverb to make it sound similar to a wetter library.

It’s much more important to get one of the best libraries in any particular category when you’re starting out. So for strings, CSS is where I’d start for a beginner because it has fantastic realism. For woodwinds, Berlin Woodwinds. For brass CSB or CineBrass or JXL Brass. Percussion CinePerc or Berlin Perc, or several other options.

There are a lot of options out there, some better for film & TV, some are better for trailers which are more hyped.

If you tried to match one brand, the problem is you’ll get some sub-par libraries. For example if you go all Cinesamples, you’ll get great brass and perc but sub-par strings. Or Cinematic series you’ll get great strings and brass but they don’t have woods or perc (yet). You could get Orchestral Tools which is pretty great across the board but priced accordingly. Even OT and Spitfire may not be perfect for every single instrument.

Another piece of advice is if you want to really learn to compose, don’t start with ensemble libraries where you can just play chords...get libraries with individual instruments so you can learn how to write a string arrangement with single notes - violins, violas, cello, and basses. Having said thatC if you just want to make music easily to start, ensemble libraries like Albion, Abbey Road One, or Metropolis Ark make it easier but don’t necessarily educate you on the individual instruments.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I suggest Seventh Heaven


+1


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## Tonda (Nov 17, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> David Kudell said:
> 
> 
> > I suggest Seventh Heaven)
> ...



Yep, definitely my favorite reverb


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I suppose you’re getting a fair amount of varying advice. Not to confuse you any further, but here’s a few pieces of advice for when you’re starting out. Again this is just one guy’s opinion, though I do have a lot of libraries.
> 
> I think the myth that all your libraries need to match is not really true. Most composers I’ve talked to agree this is a non issue. You just need to get a reverb plugin (I suggest Seventh Heaven) and apply that in varying amounts and it will all sound fine together. For example, dryer libraries you’d add reverb to make it sound similar to a wetter library.
> 
> ...


Great piece of advice, coming from someone who I’d definitely put on my personal “Great inspirations in music 2020” list. Thanks David!


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## David Kudell (Nov 17, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Great piece of advice, coming from someone who I’d definitely put on my personal “Great inspirations in music 2020” list. Thanks David!



Thank you for your kind words!


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## jaketanner (Nov 17, 2020)

Going to throw my 2 cents in here also. I agree with David that if you go with one developer across the board, you will eventually run into a less than stellar section. The truth is that regardless if you go with one developer, unless it's Cinesamples or VSL, you will need to buy additional libraries and match them anyway...not everyone has a piano, or Harp...etc. 

You haven't mentioned budget, which is pretty much the starting point here...no sense in mentioning OT libraries if you have a total budget of $500...so let's start there, then more targeted suggestions can be made.

As a student you will not pay full price for most libraries anyway, BF or not...Cinesamples is 50% off for students, so you don't need to get them now...but in terms of bang for the buck, at 50% off...it's hard to beat, especially the percussion.

Maybe since you are used to Spitfire, you might want to start small and go for their Studio Series,,,PRO. versions. While not the greatest, they are not the worst either, and offer a good balance of wet/dry so that they can be used in various scenarios...you will need to get percussion, piano, harp...etc elsewhere, but the three they have are very comprehensive in their instruments and articulations...will allow you to learn how to use them.


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## RogiervG (Nov 18, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Given your background, I wouldn't worry at all about tackling any number of proprietary players, from Kontakt to SINE to PLAY to Spitfire's player. They just aren't that hard to work with and the learning curve of the technology is pretty trivial.
> 
> What's not trivial? The time commitment to learn what a new library can do.
> 
> ...





David Kudell said:


> I suppose you’re getting a fair amount of varying advice. Not to confuse you any further, but here’s a few pieces of advice for when you’re starting out. Again this is just one guy’s opinion, though I do have a lot of libraries.
> 
> I think the myth that all your libraries need to match is not really true. Most composers I’ve talked to agree this is a non issue. You just need to get a reverb plugin (I suggest Seventh Heaven) and apply that in varying amounts and it will all sound fine together. For example, dryer libraries you’d add reverb to make it sound similar to a wetter library.
> 
> ...





for both advises: I couldn't agree more... well said!


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## ebirch3 (Nov 18, 2020)

@David Kudell Thanks very much for your response. I loved your westworld entry! Very thoughtful approach to the composition. And thanks that clears my dilemma up a lot. The main query I has was whether you can mix and match libraries and by the sounds of it you definitely can. I am currently looking through all of the reccomendations and seeing what works best for me both price wise and sound appeal. I see there a lot of great sample libraries coming up during black friday. So very excited to getting some purchases then!


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