# [Thread] AMD/Intel CPU 2019



## Manaberry (May 26, 2019)

Hi there. Computex is happening. AMD and Intel conferences are done. Now we have to wait until further announcement from AMD at E3 (mid June) and Intel might come with something this summer.

Intel has revealed an improved version of the 9900K: 9900KS.
Frequency has been increased on both base and turbo mode.

*No announced yet:*
16 Cores Ryzen
Threadripper serie
Intel Desktop 10th Gen.



*AMD Zen2 General Features
15% IPC *uplift rumor confirmed.
*






Products
Ryzen 7 3700X* - *$329* - _8C/16T CPU comes with a 4.4 GHz boost and 3.6 GHz base frequency, 36MB of total cache, and a 65W TDP._

*Ryzen 7 3800X* - *$399* - _8C/16T CPU comes with a 4.5 GHz boost and 3.9 GHz base frequency, 36MB of total cache, and a 105W TDP._

*Ryzen 9 3900X* - *$499* - _12C/24T CPU comes with a 4.6 GHz boost and 3.8 GHz base frequency, 70MB of total cache, and a 105W TDP. 18% more perf than a Core i9-9920X._

*AVAILABLE ON JULY 7*​
_*Ryzen 9 3950X* - *$749* - 16C/32T CPU comes with a 4.7 GHz boost and 3.5 GHz base frequency, 72MB of total cache, and a 105W TDP. _
Available on September 2019.


*5xx Chipset:*
Coming soon



*Intel 10th Gen Intel Core Processors*
Nothing much on the Intel's side. The 10th Gen is in the pipeline.
Full report here 




_I will updated this post when we get news from AMD/Intel/Motherboard manufacturers._


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## chimuelo (May 26, 2019)

The new 9900KS has been revealed, but you can’t even buy models announced @ CES from last January yet, much less the latest “release.”
But a great single core performer, hands down.

Interested in the Ryzen 3700X though.
Already have a motherboard and chassis picked out.
Not the newest but there’s already a BIOS for the 3000 series.













Here’s the low profile GFX Card too.






I’m interested mostly in AMD 3000, non Picasso (12nm version of Zen+) Single core performance tests. Cinebech of a continuous simulation of liquid or flight simulator tests, all single core tests.

I gotta work, so thanks for updates on the live stream.


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## Manaberry (May 26, 2019)

Nice unit! Small and useful. I like it!
I'm into Threadripper I guess, because I need a CPU and chipset that control my 128GB of ram :<


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## chimuelo (May 26, 2019)

What Video Card are you using.
I never used AMD before, so any help appreciated.


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## Manaberry (May 26, 2019)

chimuelo said:


> What Video Card are you using.
> I never used AMD before, so any help appreciated.


1080 from Nvidia since its release. I hope to keep it for few more years!


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## Manaberry (May 26, 2019)

Updated with Ryzen 7/9 specs and prices.


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## chimuelo (May 27, 2019)

3700X is the chip @ CES Vegas that was touted as the Intel killer.
With me I’ve already got all the power I need with i7 4790k’s. I’ve got an 8086k fromSilicon Lottery, i7 5775C w/128MB L4 cache. Not much difference from all 3 CPUs, just like the 3700X wouldn’t be much different in regards to speed, but the power envelope is what intrigues me.

The AMD Cache design is also what gets my attention. 
Intel gets about 2MB per core where the AMD gets a huge 6 MBs per core of L2 then shared pool of 32MBs of L3. I suspect this is where low watt efficiency meets brute strength. 

I noticed years ago when VST FX were just starting they sucked, sounded like metallic crap, but ate up CPU Cycles like nobody’s business. Intels were faster than AMD but AMD could run more FX due it’s larger Cache. 

I don’t notice that on my Broadwell 5775C but it’s cache is L4/128MBs.
It does get the same amount of work done @ 3.3GHz as my 4770k’s.

Im hoping the 32MBs on the 65 watt AMD 3700X helps out in the same way.

I’m thinking AMD would like AMD GFX but I’m going to stay small due to size and heat restrictions. 

Can’t wait for single core R15 Cinebench tests. Not a real test that we need but a great starting point since Intel chips are all on the single core charts to evaluate.

Cheerz


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## chimuelo (May 27, 2019)

Here’s the tit for tat that will force some real testing to be done by handing out engineering samples. 

https://wccftech.com/intel-replies-...-9242-based-48-core-2s-beats-amds-64-core-2s/


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## chimuelo (May 27, 2019)

These will make Samsung cough up a new batch of devices.

https://hexus.net/tech/news/storage/130970-corsair-force-series-mp600-m2-ssds-pcie-40-ready/


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## ridgero (May 27, 2019)

Zukünftige Spiele werden noch besser laufen, da die PS5 ja eine AMD CPU & GPU nutzt.


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## chimuelo (May 27, 2019)

Ja Ja...

Some boards, all PCI 4.0.

https://wccftech.com/amd-x570-motherboard-roundup-aorus-asus-asrock-msi-colorful-biostar/

For those wanting a small portable box and retain the ATX protocol, this knocks inches off of any tower. Triple NVMe.


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## Damarus (May 27, 2019)

Cant wait to start seeing some real benchmarks and real-world tests with these new chips. Its ability to overclock is going to show us if they are much better than Zen1 or cant even beat Intel's next offerings.


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## ridgero (May 27, 2019)

Intel doesnt have much offerings...


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## chimuelo (May 27, 2019)

Damn just found out my 2nd trusted review guy was hired by Intel.
Most likely for his mad skills @ OC’ing.
His name is Kyle Bennet (HardOCP) and 20+ years ago he and Anand Shimpli (AnandTech) we’re partners in a magazine, as the web was still young.
Each got their own successful review site and now both are gone..

Any trustworthy people for reviews? 
I got a place where DAWBench is used in reviews but I need a geek who tears apart CPUs, etc.


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## whiskers (May 27, 2019)

That new zen 2 9 series looks siiiiick 

May be in my next build if it lives up to the hype


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## chimuelo (May 27, 2019)

This might make me forget the 3700X if true.
But I’m skeptical when there’s no leaks and suddenly success on the 10nm wafers?
Could explain why we’re not seeing many of the CPUs shown in Vegas @ CES.

Really impressed with the low power claims, and the fact they’re going to less cores means they’re proud of something.
It has to be true, if it isn’t they’ll ruin their name for years to come.

I’ll take a 4.1 quad with 18% uptick in IPC.

https://wccftech.com/intel-10nm-ice-lake-18-pc-ipc/


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## chimuelo (May 27, 2019)

I’m getting swamped with reports, this one says now shipping?

https://wccftech.com/intel-launches...lake-10nm-cpus-at-computex-2019-now-shipping/


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## Denkii (May 27, 2019)

chimuelo said:


> Damn just found out my 2nd trusted review guy was hired by Intel.
> Most likely for his mad skills @ OC’ing.
> His name is Kyle Bennet (HardOCP) and 20+ years ago he and Anand Shimpli (AnandTech) we’re partners in a magazine, as the web was still young.
> Each got their own successful review site and now both are gone..
> ...



Steve Burke from Gamers Nexus and Der8auer are mostly in the high end OC game but offer Savage reviews of most things.


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## Manaberry (May 28, 2019)

I guess this year is for AMD until Intel get their next gen desktop ready. Until then, AMD will improve their Zen process with the 7nm+ for very competitive prices. In few months, I will have the choice to get a very nice new CPU to replace my old 6800K.. without selling my house for it.


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## ridgero (May 28, 2019)

AMD still has a 16 Core Ryzen CPU, which they haven't shown so far. I guess they will wait until Intel has something to come up with


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## chimuelo (May 28, 2019)

Denkii said:


> Steve Burke from Gamers Nexus and Der8auer are mostly in the high end OC game but offer Savage reviews of most things.



Thanks.
My kind of guy.


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## Jay Panikkar (May 28, 2019)

I'm excited for the rest of the line-up, particularly new generation Threadrippers. I've switched to AMD since last year because it is much more cost-effective.


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## Manaberry (May 28, 2019)

Jay Panikkar said:


> I'm excited for the rest of the line-up, particularly new generation Threadrippers. I've switched to AMD since last year because it is much more cost-effective.



Happy to see someone using AMD here. What's your actual CPU?
By the way, very nice move from AMD to keep AM4 socket for this new gen. A lot of people will save money on motherboards.


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## Jay Panikkar (May 28, 2019)

I have two systems, one mainly for recording and post-production, and another for production. The former is a replacement of my old Intel Xeon system, now AMD Threadripper 2950x, Asus Prime x399 and 64 gigs of RAM. The latter is older generation AMD R7 1800x I got for cheap along with Asus Prime x370 and 64 gigs of RAM.


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## chimuelo (May 28, 2019)

Manaberry said:


> Happy to see someone using AMD here. What's your actual CPU?
> By the way, very nice move from AMD to keep AM4 socket for this new gen. A lot of people will save money on motherboards.



ASRock says the 470 board made for 1U chassis will get a new BIOS.
I don’t think it’s even been released yet.
Went to 3 different sites and it’s out of stock, which translates to we don’t have it yet.

Seems Ill be good to go with Intel or AMD.
I’ve been on 4790k’s for years. Actually on single core performance the new 9000s are 15% more IPC.
Didn’t even see a budge until the 7000 series, which is really the 8000s too.

So I should see 25-30% uptick in IPC.
Competition sure is nice.


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## whiskers (May 28, 2019)

im glad i hung on to my AMD stock


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## Jay Panikkar (May 28, 2019)

chimuelo said:


> Competition sure is nice.


Absolutely. I was initially annoyed when AMD launched Threadripper because my (then) spanking new $3000 dollars Xeon was suddenly matched by a $800 processor. I ended up selling my Xeon + motherboard for around $2500, bought a $1300 TR setup and $1200 leftover for samples.


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## chimuelo (May 28, 2019)

Jay Panikkar said:


> Absolutely. I was initially annoyed when AMD launched Threadripper because my (then) spanking new $3000 dollars Xeon was suddenly matched by a $800 processor. I ended up selling my Xeon + motherboard for around $2500, bought a $1300 TR setup and $1200 leftover for samples.



Yeah but the Xeons are great.
You know Intel is going to hit back with cheaper prices for now, but in 2020 (not late 2019) they’re going to have to score really big with new chips because AMD is taking off, just look at all of the motherboards already available for the 3000’s.
Usually you see a pair, ATX and mATX.
Everybody that’s anybody has 5/6 each.

Can’t wait to see Supermicro @ Computex.
So far nothing, and those are the guys to watch.


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## chimuelo (May 28, 2019)

Sooner or later this was bound to happen.
I don’t need this much fanfare but my youngest is already pulling money out of his pockets.






https://www.tomshardware.com/news/team_group-rgb-ssds-computex-2019,39487.html


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## jamwerks (May 28, 2019)

Any news about 32gb DDR4 ram sticks?


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## chimuelo (May 28, 2019)

Ankyu

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13950/advantech-unveils-32-gb-sqram-ddr4-dimms-for-hpc

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13399/double-height-double-capacity-zadak-ddr4-32gb


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## tabulius (May 29, 2019)

I really REALLY hope that Zen2 will perform better in real-time audio and DAW use than the earlier models. I think I'm going to upgrade my PC this summer or fall, so looking forward to DAW-bench and user tests and I hope the Ryzen 16 core and new Threadripper refresh will be announced in the next E3. If it seems Intel still outperforms in low latency VI and plugin tests, then I might have to go for more expensive Skylake-X. We'll see!


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## EvilDragon (May 29, 2019)

tabulius said:


> I really REALLY hope that Zen2 will perform better in real-time audio and DAW use than the earlier models.



I wouldn't hope for much. It's by design of how cores and dies are interconnected, there will always be some overhead for NUMA (non-uniform memory access), which is the same thing as if you had two or more physical CPUs on the motherboard. This is great for a lot of workloads where super-tight latencies don't matter (video rendering, data centers, servers), but it's not great for realtime audio with low buffer sizes (<64 samples). The chiplet design could even make it worse, actually.

They would have to go back to the drawing board and figure out a completely different design of the CPU that wouldn't rely on NUMA, but that's not gonna happen, they're going to run with their current design as long as they can, for sure.


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## Manaberry (May 29, 2019)

I'm working with a buffer of 512 (and x4 on VE-Pro... so 2048 so far). Sometimes I have to increase to 1024 because of the very CPU demanding synth. My poor 6800K is dying because of the huge template (75GB) workload. Even if the latencies is not better than Intel ones, I assume a 16c or 24c would be nice to be able to go for a 256 (x2) buffer size.
The price per core from AMD is a good argument to me. I need brute power.

Looking forward to see audio benchmark of the 3rd gen.


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## EvilDragon (May 29, 2019)

AMD performs decently on 512 samples, but for every halving of that buffer size you get worse and worse overhead from NUMA. So you get in the situation where your project craps out with dropouts when CPU is 65-70% saturated, rather than 98-99% like on Intels... This was the case even on their most powerful 32C/64T Threadripper last year.

I am eagerly awaiting scanproaudio's benchmarks for the 3rd gen Zens...


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## chimuelo (May 29, 2019)

Definitely waiting for ScanProAudio too.
I’m fine with 256 on my host and this is for live performance.
I can run @ 64/44.1k no problem but there’s no advantage for that workload.

I’m actually more excited about a new Intel Quad Core late 2019 than the AMD 3700X now. If it matches the TDP of that AMD Chip that’s all I need.

I have been able to do anything I want on my rigs ever since the i7 2600K CPUs @ 4.1GHz. i7 3770K, then i7 4790K, even the i7 5775C @ 3.3GHz too.
I’m doing heavy polyphony more than number of plug ins, etc.

Exciting times though to see the 2 big sluggers going at it again.
Regardless of which chip out does the other, the fact they continue upping their game suits me just fine.


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## chimuelo (May 29, 2019)

Always liked Noctua, just another reason why.

https://wccftech.com/noctua-displays-next-gen-nh-d15-cooler-fans-and-a-beast-of-a-passive-heatsink/


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## BGvanRens (May 31, 2019)

Here is another one waiting for ScanProAudio reviews. I already opted to take the dive and get a 9900k, but then Computex happened and decided to happily wait a bit longer. Intel starts sweating more and more, 9900(KeepSpending), really? I think I may go to team red for the first time in my life. Maybe Intel has got their stuff together in 2022 or so, but for now (assuming dawbenches are positive) I don't feel Intel has much of an answer on AMD.

But if dawbenches tell me it's still team blue that holds the crown, I will be loyal to blue.


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## EvilDragon (May 31, 2019)

It's a tricky thing to consider. Woudl you still pay the blue tax even if team red would have better performance overall at half the price, even if it might not fully saturate the CPU only on the lowest buffer sizes? Does anyone even run huge orchestral templates at 64 samples buffer? I'm plenty happy with 128 samples buffer, I don't hear any latency when playing live (be it my guitar or a plugin via MIDI controller), and at 128 AMD is still performing pretty darn great.


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## BGvanRens (May 31, 2019)

Hmm, fair point, the price performance ratio is an interesting topic to discuss. 128 samples buffer size is good enough for me. And if I could save 300 euro or so, it's definitely worth considering to make some compromises in other area's (smaller template for example)


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## kitekrazy (May 31, 2019)

Manaberry said:


> Happy to see someone using AMD here. What's your actual CPU?
> By the way, very nice move from AMD to keep AM4 socket for this new gen. *A lot of people will save money on motherboards.*



Also less confusion. I hate constant platform changes.


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## kitekrazy (May 31, 2019)

Does AMD have Thunderbolt support yet?


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## EvilDragon (May 31, 2019)

Not in the chipsets, AFAIK. Needs a separate chip on the motherboard.


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## chimuelo (May 31, 2019)

I’m hoping the 3700X can layer multiple sounds like Intels can.
The 65 watt TDP on 3700 is impressive, but ScanPro will determine its worthiness.
If not my 4790k’s will last until the new 10nm Intels are out after CES 2020.

ED do you see any difference from 128 to 256?
I don’t notice any on my rig but it goes from 256 being fine to 512 having difficulty with 4 way layered EPianos.

Just Curious


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## EvilDragon (May 31, 2019)

You mean latency-wise? Yeah when playing guitar live through ampsims I can feel the latency at 256 and above. 128 is quite alright with me.


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## chimuelo (May 31, 2019)

I’m reading up on why NUMA slowed down Threadrippers, Zen 1 and EPYC.
According to a few people NUMA is history in Zen 2.

Also in the keynote the CEO said that the larger cache was to improve gaming performance. 

So here’s hoping that helps out for audio.


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## EvilDragon (May 31, 2019)

chimuelo said:


> According to a few people NUMA is history in Zen 2.



Except it's not, it's still there because of the chiplet design which is essentially the same thing.

Larger cache can somewhat compensate for NUMA latency but not completely.


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## tabulius (May 31, 2019)

kitekrazy said:


> Does AMD have Thunderbolt support yet?



Good news is that yes, there are upcoming motherboards with even 1-2 TB connections directly in the motherboard!


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## EvilDragon (May 31, 2019)

TB2 or TB3?


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## tabulius (May 31, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> TB2 or TB3?



I think that was still unspecified. They haven't added the motherboards in their webpages yet, so detailed specs are missing. I would be surprised if it was TB2 and not TB3.

EDIT: And the board I was talking about was Asrock Creator X570, it has 2 TB type-C ports. I think they even had an ITX or MATX board with 1 TB port.


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## Damarus (May 31, 2019)

I would be surprised if we see a AMD board with TB3 considering its still licensed by Intel


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## EvilDragon (Jun 1, 2019)

TB2 would be great because I wouldn't need an expensive TB2 to TB3 converter to use my UFX+


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## chimuelo (Jun 1, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Except it's not, it's still there because of the chiplet design which is essentially the same thing.
> 
> Larger cache can somewhat compensate for NUMA latency but not completely.



Since I don’t really know the design well enough I couldn’t ask questions, but I can vouge for Cache and audio, but that too probably depends on the design.
At least with Intels every time a larger cache was added I noticed.
Last time was the disabled cache meant for the iGPU on the i7 5775C.

Add a video card and the cache becomes available for the CPU. It was 128MBs and slow @ 1800MHz. Overclocking would crash after the cache hit 2200MHz since it clocked with the CPU.

But stock @ 3.3GHz had the same power of the 4790k @ stock 4GHz.
But that’s Intel, I’ve never used AMD but look forward to audio benching,


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## Manaberry (Jun 8, 2019)

Expect some more detailed info from AMD at E3.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Jun 8, 2019)

I am waiting with baited breath on this one too.

Time to upgrade my i7 4770K, 32GB RAM, ASUS RoG MF6 build to either an i9 Rig or a 12-Core Ryzen 9 in two months...


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## whiskers (Jun 8, 2019)

Manaberry said:


> Expect some more detailed info from AMD at E3.


there will be more Zen2 info then?


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## whiskers (Jun 8, 2019)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I am waiting with baited breath on this one too.
> 
> Time to upgrade my i7 4770K, 32GB RAM, ASUS RoG MF6 build to either an i9 Rig or a 12-Core Ryzen 9 in two months...


same here buddy, same here. Z97 mATX right now, that Ryzen 9 is looking pretty sweet.


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## Manaberry (Jun 8, 2019)

whiskers said:


> there will be more Zen2 info then?


At least benchmark. I really hope for some new reveal (but I'm kind of dreaming right now.) 
I'm really looking forward for threadripper because of my 128GB of ram. It's too long to wait... not clue when it will be announced : <


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## Raphioli (Jun 9, 2019)

I don't know if anyone has already seen this, but I've been an Intel user all my life, but the new Ryzens are really appealing its making me want to switch to AMD.
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-9-3950x-to-become-worlds-first-16-core-gaming-cpu

I'd really be curious how 3900x/3950x would do against a 9920x.
If the benchmark scores are close, Intels offerings would feel overpriced.(unless they reduce the price on them)


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## Damarus (Jun 9, 2019)

Raphioli said:


> I don't know if anyone has already seen this, but I've been an Intel user all my life, but the new Ryzens are really appealing its making me want to switch to AMD.
> https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-9-3950x-to-become-worlds-first-16-core-gaming-cpu
> 
> I'd really be curious how 3900x/3950x would do against a 9920x.
> If the benchmark scores are close, Intels offerings would feel overpriced.(unless they reduce the price on them)



if we can get a solid 5ghz or more out of those top end chips with comparable thermals, it might be a great choice. Again, we will have to see some benchmarks. There is more to the CPU than just clock speed and cores.


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## EvilDragon (Jun 9, 2019)

All I'm interested in are ScanAudioPro's DAW benchmarks. I'm still thinking there's going to be NUMA latency overheads for Zen 2 as well, probably even exacerbated because of the chiplet design. Which means at lowest latencies you won't be able to fully saturate the CPU cores like you can on Intels, which means you'd get clicks and dropouts at 60-70% CPU usage (rather than closer to 100% like on Intels).


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## Manaberry (Jun 10, 2019)

3950X rumors confirmed. Available on September 2019.


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## Audio Birdi (Jun 10, 2019)

Manaberry said:


> 3950X rumors confirmed. Available on September 2019.


Damn good price for $749!


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## MarcusD (Jun 11, 2019)

Just watched the event... Pretty impressive! Be nice too see how it translates to audio.


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## BGvanRens (Jun 11, 2019)

Literally losing my patience, I do hope AMD nailed the low buffer size problem. However I do fear EvilDragon is right.


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## EvilDragon (Jun 11, 2019)

I don't think they nailed it, they keep on adding more cores tied to the master I/O core, which is more or less exactly how multiple physical CPUs on a single motherboard would behave, which means NUMA latency is very much a thing, and IS going to impact real-time performance... They would need to completely overhaul the way their CPUs are designed to combat this, I fear (and that's probably not happening, they're going to milk this design for as long as they possibly can)...


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## funnybear (Jun 11, 2019)

There are a few new variables that will potentially improve Zen 2's performance for real-time low buffer audio quite a bit:

At the right ram speed, the communication between cpu cores / dies (AMD calls this the Infinity Fabric) is now much better. AMD has specified DDR4-3733 ram as locking in a 1:1 ratio where you get optimal timings.
With the May 2019 Windows 10 update, the Windows core / thread scheduler has been greatly improved especially for Zen 2. This means assigning cores / threads to workloads is more intelligent and clock-speed rump-up latency has improved greatly.
Also, the pricing of the 16 core 3950X is about half of the Intel equivalent. So even if you can't saturate the CPU to the same level as on the Intel CPU (to be seen), you are potentially getting a much better value CPU especially if you are using your PC for other things such as programming or media encoding.

Let's also not forget that Intel's CPUs are continuing to be subject to performance degradation from security patches addressing the various side-loading vulnerabilities, most which do not affect AMD. For example, to run the 9900k securely post Zombieload, you now need to disable hyper-threading and apply a patch that has a substantial performance impact. The way Intel has implemented hyper threading makes it likely that there are plenty of additional vulnerabilities found down the road. AMD's design is different and seems not to be as vulnerable.

Let's see the test results once the chips are out in July but on paper I am quite optimistic.


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## tack (Jun 11, 2019)

funnybear said:


> you now need to disable hyper-threading and apply a patch that has a substantial performance impact.


Something none of us here should do on our desktops, IMO. Cloud vendors in shared environments, yes. Our PCs at home, there are far easier and more problematic attack vectors than those based on speculative execution.

The 3950X and its 105W TDP are really appealing to me. I have a 2950X now and I'm generally very happy with it, but my case is optimized for noise and not airflow, so PBO isn't quite able to do all that it might. With a lower TDP, slightly higher clocks, and IPC gains, that's a tempting upgrade.


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## funnybear (Jun 11, 2019)

These vulnerabilities apply not only to cloud / server environments.

There have been plenty of proof of concepts been shown in how to read out passwords and other sensitive data from memory segments owned by other threads running in multi-threading mode. There was even one example were this was done with JavaScript in Chrome until a Google patched this. So simply by visiting a web page any passwords in memory were read out. 

If you never do anything but run music apps on your PC (from trusted sources), then I guess you are fine though.


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## Virtual Virgin (Jun 11, 2019)

While I find AMD Ryzen specs rather tempting, my concerns echo Evil Dragon here.
What kind of benchmarks do we have out there for audio RTL running on AMD chips?
It's the one performance measure I just can't sacrifice.


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## EvilDragon (Jun 11, 2019)

funnybear said:


> So simply by visiting a web page any passwords in memory were read out.



Well, if you keep your web browser up to date you should be fine. And anyways, why would you go on any dubious websites in the first place, and especially on your DAW? 

I agree with tack, HT is to be left enabled on audio workstations.


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## Ben (Jun 11, 2019)

I think some DAWs work better with HT turned off.


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## Manaberry (Jun 11, 2019)

tack said:


> Something none of us here should do on our desktops, IMO. Cloud vendors in shared environments, yes. Our PCs at home, there are far easier and more problematic attack vectors than those based on speculative execution.



Yes and no. In my case, windows patches and microcode for CPU broke my overclocking. I can't fix it now. I'm having a 3.6 Ghz that struggle so much running my VE-Pro template instead of a solid 4.2Ghz. And I clearly see the difference. It's quite huge!
So yeah, no more Intel and their vulnerable chips.


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## Damarus (Jun 11, 2019)

funnybear said:


> At the right ram speed, the communication between cpu cores / dies (AMD calls this the Infinity Fabric) is now much better. AMD has specified DDR4-3733 ram as locking in a 1:1 ratio where you get optimal timings.


This would make sense, as Ryzen benchmarks have seen better performance with faster RAM. But at what cost? At the moment, 3733mhz RAM is nearly double the price of 3000/3200. That certainly closes the gap a bit on CPU Value.


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## funnybear (Jun 11, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Well, if you keep your web browser up to date you should be fine. And anyways, why would you go on any dubious websites in the first place, and especially on your DAW?



Yeah, Google is good at patching quickly.

But unfortunately these days a lot of ads distributed via legitimate ad networks include JavaScript payloads that get downloaded without any vetting at all from the ad network.

You can get exposed on completely legit websites that run ads from networks that have no ability to vet what code the ad includes (the immersive ads - not banner ads). The volume of ads run makes it impossible to audit every line of code that advertisers use.

I personally apply all patches and mitigations. I have lost at least 20% performance over the last year from doing so. Unless Intel pulls a rabbit out of the hat, I am eying Threadripper 3000 as my next system.


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## EvilDragon (Jun 11, 2019)

uBlock Origin and NoScript. No ads ever, and no scripts ran without your consent. Blissful Internet! 



funnybear said:


> I personally apply all patches and mitigations. I have lost at least 20% performance over the last year from doing so.



I have a knife and I'm going to cut my arm off so I can do less work because somebody else told me to.


This is not what I'd do with my audio workstation, even if it's online. It's meant to perform, and perform well. 



Ben said:


> I think some DAWs work better with HT turned off.



Those DAWs suck. 



Manaberry said:


> In my case, windows patches and microcode for CPU broke my overclocking. I can't fix it now.



You can revert pretty much all Windows-side mitigations IIRC. Google it.


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## Øivind (Jun 11, 2019)

Seeing as Chrome (google) will not allow uBlock (or any adblock) to work 'as is' much longer, i have transition to Brave + duckduckgo or startpage for search.
No adds, no tracking, auto https, etc built inn and won't be affected by Google's new anti adblock sillyness. Firefox is also a decent alternative, though you will need to turn some things on manually.

The new AMD lineup does look impressive. Should be interesting to see where it lies on the 256 buffer area.


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## tack (Jun 11, 2019)

tack said:


> The 3950X and its 105W TDP are really appealing to me. I have a 2950X now [...]


I just realized the 3950X uses an AM4 socket, not TR4 like my 2950X. Lisa Su has said they were going to continue the Threadripper line this year, so now I wonder what that's going to look like.


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## Ben (Jun 11, 2019)

https://www.steinberg.net/en/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_show/hyper-threading-and-asio-guard
In short: Cubase <=6: Turn HT off, Cubase >6 turn it on when ASIO Guard is activated. If you can't use ASIO Guard (for example VEP) and experience drop-outs with low CPU load try to disable HT and see if that fixes your problem.


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## Manaberry (Jun 11, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> You can revert pretty much all Windows-side mitigations IIRC. Google it.


I already broke my windows two weeks ago. I had to reinstall everything. I'm not going to give another shot. I will be patient and wait for a brand new cpu and motherboard first


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## chimuelo (Jun 11, 2019)

DuckDuckGo.
Peace of mind.


EvilDragon said:


> I don't think they nailed it, they keep on adding more cores tied to the master I/O core, which is more or less exactly how multiple physical CPUs on a single motherboard would behave, which means NUMA latency is very much a thing, and IS going to impact real-time performance... They would need to completely overhaul the way their CPUs are designed to combat this, I fear (and that's probably not happening, they're going to milk this design for as long as they possibly can)...



But the beauty of that is Intel doesn’t know or care about our needs for the best single core performance, so AMD is scaring them into releasing designs they had for future phases of released SKUs.
Now we can sit back and enjoy the competition.

So please, everyone rave about how great AMD is so the analytic collectors can tell Intel they need to pick it up.

Go AMD


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## Manaberry (Jun 12, 2019)

Cinebench R15 - 5434 points for the 3950X. WTF!


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## tack (Jun 12, 2019)

"Most performance in a mainstream CPU socket"

... when you have someone standing there pouring liquid nitrogen on it.


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## chimuelo (Jun 12, 2019)

It’s nice knowing the CPU can handle liquid nitrogen.
IPC, it’s all I’m interested in.


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## Ben (Jun 13, 2019)

IPC is one of the most important factors for our use-case, but as @EvilDragon mentioned, the core-cache synchronization is important too. If this is not fast enought, you will not be able to saturate the CPU load. That's one of the reasons why the current Threadripper CPUs are not an optimal solution for DAWs.


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## Manaberry (Jun 13, 2019)

It seems Windows 1903 improves Zen Clock Selection.


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## chimuelo (Jun 13, 2019)

“it’s said” and “according to” are becoming tiresome remarks.
I have so many PCs now I can’t justify buying a 3700X just to see.
ScanAudioPro will tell me all I need to know.
And even so I want a live CPU.
It’s okay if it craps out at 75%. 
It’s what happens from 0-74% that I’m interested in.

I’m a low watt big cache kind of guy.
Hell I don’t even want more than a Quad.

If I don’t like the test results from ScanAudio or TechReport I’ll just get that cheap little i3 8350k and the ASRock Rack Q370.
4.0GHz on ant Intel Core is good enough for me.

Besides, it’s been a few years since I had a box office hit.
My needs are meager in comparison to those times.


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## chimuelo (Jun 13, 2019)

Here’s the design. You can see why there could be audio issues because of the separation.

https://wccftech.com/ryzen-3000-series-ccx-and-core-layout-quick-guide/


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## chimuelo (Jun 15, 2019)

Nice leak using SunnyCove ES CPUs.


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## axb312 (Jun 16, 2019)

chimuelo said:


> Nice leak using SunnyCove ES CPUs.



What does this mean?


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