# New TC Electronic VSS3 Native Reverb



## ceemusic (Jan 11, 2017)

New release & launch special-

VSS3 is the sound behind thousands of albums and films - and chances are you already know its merits first-hand.

Ported from our iconic System 6000, it gives you quick and no-fuss reverb delight - and lets you take full control of the early reflections, body and tail of your reverb.

14 day trial
Intro offer 
http://www.tcelectronic.com/vss3-native/


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## synthpunk (Jan 11, 2017)

They tried releasing this last year and then suddenly everything was pulled and disappeared. GLad to see it back I know a lot of film guy's praise this verb for its transparency and I know quite a few people that can finally throw away their power cores. Of course there been three or four more great reverbs released since last year so who knows how well it will do.


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## WindcryMusic (Jan 11, 2017)

I was pretty excited to see this, and the price seems very reasonable (especially the intro discount). Alas, then I saw the dreaded word: iLok. So ... no.


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## Hannes_F (Jan 11, 2017)

Interesting. I would like to compare it with the relab VSR S24 - which I just bought and it is fantastic. However I'll be away from the studio for 10 days - anybody else up to a test?


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## Saxer (Jan 11, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> ...then I saw the dreaded word: iLok. So ... no.


It can be authorized without dongle.

I had a TC5000 years ago and I loved the reverb. But that was at times without plugin reverbs. After all the newer existing reverbs... who knows. I'll give it a try during the intro price duration.


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## WindcryMusic (Jan 11, 2017)

Saxer said:


> It can be authorized without dongle.



Doesn't help, I'm afraid ... one still has to install the PACE software, which is the real problem for me. I won't go into any more details about my reasons here, but if you want an explanation you can visit my profile.


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## Chandler (Jan 11, 2017)

This seems like a direct reaction to the recent ReLab release. apparently the Relab is slightly different and based up updated algorithms. I think the Relab version is supposedly true stereo where this isn't, but I haven't tried this so I don't know for sure. I find it strange that both companies don't have sound clips on their site. They do realize they're audio companies right?


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## gsilbers (Jan 11, 2017)

meh, i didnt like this reverb that much when i was using the tc powercore. well, it wasnt anything special compared to the plugins nowadays. i read the vss4 was much better but i havent heard it. 
there are soo many good options out there now.


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## synthpunk (Jan 11, 2017)

Direct reaction? This Reverb & algorithm has been around for 20 years now and available for TDM, powercore, and hardware. They are also had released it natively last year for about a day but then mysteriously it was pulled probably something to do with the relation between TC electronic and Behringer is my best guess.But I do agree lots of great competition out there now.



Chandler said:


> This seems like a direct reaction to the recent ReLab release. apparently the Relab is slightly different and based up updated algorithms. I think the Relab version is supposedly true stereo where this isn't, but I haven't tried this so I don't know for sure. I find it strange that both companies don't have sound clips on their site. They do realize they're audio companies right?


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## clisma (Jan 12, 2017)

Just tested this for about an hour, comparing it to PhoenixVerb and Ircam Verb3, which is a wonderful and underrated algo Reverb. Don't have the Relab so can't speak to that. I liked it, especially the "Distance" parameter, and its ability to be transparent. Wealth of presets, if geared toward sound design as well. Overall, with the two verbs mentioned above, I don't feel like I'm missing anything at all in not adding this to the toolbox.


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## vewilya (Jan 12, 2017)

I do own a hardware TC4000 reverb unit which is great. Hard to decide on this one. Native plugs are so handy when I have to deliver in stems. 
What would you say are the differencies between vss3 and vss4 algorithms?


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## tav.one (Jan 12, 2017)

Saxer said:


> I had a TC5000 years ago


I read that as "I had a TC 5000 years ago"


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## vewilya (Jan 12, 2017)

itstav said:


> I read that as "I had a TC 5000 years ago"


It's been around for quite a while now...


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## Dietz (Jan 12, 2017)

I've been using t.c. reverbs since they appeared on the market in the 90ies and couldn't live without them before plug-ins got good enough. To see them moving to the "native" world is a nice thing - although I would rather see those unparalleled MD3/MD5 multi-band dynamics coming this way! As a matter of fact I know professionals who stick to their "dated" TDM-based ProTools systems just to avoid losing these fundamental tools.


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## Saxer (Jan 12, 2017)

itstav said:


> I read that as "I had a TC 5000 years ago"


I actually wrote that first but I decided not to confuse everyone here about my age or other preferences...


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## utopia (Jan 12, 2017)

Just downloaded the VSS 3 and Relab's VSR 24 demos. Did a quick shootout and to me the vsr 24 comes out as the clear winner. Both sound absolutely great to my ears but the true stereo algorithms of the VSR really shine on dense orchestral stems. Amazing reverb really, so much better than my old veteran EW Spaces.


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## jcrosby (Jan 12, 2017)

I always found this to be an outstanding reverb. Even when killing off my powercore 5-6 years ago I always found this to be one of its crowning jewels next to MD-3... Certainly interested enough to demo at that price.... I paid 3 times that when POCO was around and didn't regret it... Will be interesting to see how it stacks up to current offerings.


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## jamwerks (Jan 12, 2017)

VSS3 was TC's top of-the-line about 15 years ago. It's NOT true stereo, VSS4 is, and sounds noticeably better on everything to my ears (and a Bricasti sounds even better). This porting to native is about 5 years too late imo.


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## gsilbers (Jan 12, 2017)

the guy at spitfire (paul?) brings a good point about the vss3. its the reverb used in countless Hollywood movies so if you want to get close to that sound then that's the verb to use. similar to having neve preamps and Yamaha ns10 and other 70-80s gear, its not that they sound great but they sound like most top 40 tracks sounded like.

I don't necessary agree and I think there where other (better) verbs that came soon after from TC. at the end its just another tool. Ill try it out an a whole mix and compared to other algo verbs.

there is also the TC6000 reverb which I think its the main one used for post and mastering.


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## ceemusic (Jan 12, 2017)

I have to say I prefer Relab's VSR | S24, a higher pricepoint but worth it.


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## jamwerks (Jan 12, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> the guy at spitfire (paul?) brings a good point about the vss3. its the reverb used in countless Hollywood movies so if you want to get close to that sound then that's the verb to use.


VSS3 is still used all the time for foley & FX, but I doubt we've heard it on a music stem for quite a long time...


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## gsilbers (Jan 12, 2017)

yeah, for music its the VSS4HD.
I guess the VSS3 if you want your music to sound like way back in the 90s.. like an Arnold movie.
jingle all the way?


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## guydoingmusic (Jan 13, 2017)

first impressions: very smooth/transparent. Haven't tried it on a ton of sources yet. But it's easy to get a good sounding verb right away with very little effort.


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## synthpunk (Jan 13, 2017)

I bet it's used on every Spitfire Audio cue the last 10 years, just saying.



jamwerks said:


> VSS3 is still used all the time for foley & FX, but I doubt we've heard it on a music stem for quite a long time...


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## synthetic (Jan 13, 2017)

I hope there's a surround version someday. Not much available for surround reverbs except Exponential and Altiverb.


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## vewilya (Jan 14, 2017)

Still unsure about this one... I certainly like the sound of it. I am familiar with TC reverbs (TC4000), always loved that sound. But trying to get my head around the concept of true stereo vs "normal" stereo verbs... I mean aren't there advantages in not having a true stereo reverb when your stuff gets collapsed to mono?? But as I am not a dubbing engineer but a composer who has to deliver audio stems with just music on them.....
But I guess it's relevant where your music is gonna be played for choosing a reverb?


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## chimuelo (Jan 14, 2017)

synthetic said:


> I hope there's a surround version someday. Not much available for surround reverbs except Exponential and Altiverb.


I've had 5.1 in DSP for 7 years now.
Can't afford anything more than my expanded Blue Sky 2.1 near fields, but can track and record the JL Cooper panner then play it back, just for messing around with single sound sources.

Advanced TC Algos are awesome though. I was using 3 hardware units, 2 cascaded for super ERs followed by the advanced algorithm. Tons of fun.
Really surprised to see DeepMind 12 using TC Algos in my iOS Editor.
Normally prefer Delay on a synth but TC Verbs are great anywhere you put them.


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## chimuelo (Jan 14, 2017)

synthetic said:


> I hope there's a surround version someday. Not much available for surround reverbs except Exponential and Altiverb.


I've had 5.1 in DSP for 7 years now.
Can't afford anything more than my expanded Blue Sky 2.1 near fields, but can track and record the JL Cooper panner then play it back, just for messing around with single sound sources.

Advanced TC Algos are awesome though. I was using 3 hardware units, 2 cascaded for super ERs followed by the advanced algorithm. Tons of fun.
Really surprised to see DeepMind 12 using TC Algos in my iOS Editor.
Normally prefer Delay on a synth but TC Verbs are great anywhere you put them.


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## chimuelo (Jan 14, 2017)

You can run Stereo through any Mono Maker plug in and have good results.
During pre production or Mastering.


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## chimuelo (Jan 14, 2017)

You can run Stereo through any Mono Maker plug in and have good results.
During pre production or Mastering.


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## chimuelo (Jan 14, 2017)

You can run Stereo through any Mono Maker plug in and have good results.
During pre production or Mastering.


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## chimuelo (Jan 14, 2017)

You can run Stereo through any Mono Maker plug in and have good results.
During pre production or Mastering.


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## chimuelo (Jan 14, 2017)

You can run Stereo through any Mono Maker plug in and have good results.
During pre production or Mastering.


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## Joram (Jan 19, 2017)

I am a bit disappointed about the VSS3 but perhaps I need to spend som extra time with it


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## John Rodd (Jan 26, 2017)

I posted this comment on my FaceBook wall, but I thought i'd post it here as well. 

My four tc electronic System 6000 hardware reverbs have nothing to fear, following the announcement of the new VSS3 reverb plugin, also from tc electronic. The new VSS3 reverb plugin is only stereo, and it is also two generations earlier than the significantly more advanced VSS4HD reverb algorithm that my hardware 6000’s run. 

When I am mixing music in 5.1 (or printing many stereo stem mixes simultaneously) I lean heavily on the wonderful sound of the 6000’s running the VSS4HD algorithms. 

Posting this here so people don’t get sucked in by the marketing and misunderstand what they are getting for $200 for the VSS3 plugin. Yes the VSS3 algorithm can make some great sounding reverbs, (i might use on a drum kit, or as a more effect type reverb) but when I want realism and epic hugeness, the VSS4HD algorithm on my hardware 6000’s is what I use from the tc electronic stable, along with my Bricasti M7's … and other reverbs as well. 

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/hom...e-vss3-aax-native-reverb-plugin-for-pro-tools

I take issue with this comment at the end of their“official” video (specifically the “most realistic” part)



and I quote: “The VSS3 has been fine tuned thru years and years, making it the most realistic and versatile reverb ever made. Simple.”

After the VSS3 TC Electronic developed the VSS4 algorithm, then years later the VSS4HD algorithm. They contradict themselves - look here

http://www.tcelectronic.com/vss-4hd-system-6000/

This is a link to the VSS4HD on their own website, and they say:

"VSS™ 4HD
The VSS™ 4HD is a highly advanced stereo reverb capable of treating your program material with source related reflections from multiple angles - the result being a unrivalled precision that is comparable to real-world mono or stereo sources positioned in an authentic or virtual space.


Beyond Convolution

Contrary to a sampled reverb, VSS™ 4HD is non-causal, and it doesn't return the same response over and over again. This benefit is especially relevant in demanding productions and for live purposes, where it's important to avoid to repeatedly trigger the same reproduction room modes and to wake up the 'hall ghost'.


In fact, VSS™ 4HD is our finest room simulation algorithm, and it complements the benefits of other System 6000 algorithms perfectly. If you compare it to the highly-acclaimed VSS™ 4, you will quickly notice that VSS™ 4HD is a further development with added controls for diffused field delay and width."

~~~~~~~~


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## davidgary73 (Jan 26, 2017)

@John Rodd ..i read your post on FB. I did demo both VSS3 and Relab VSR S24. Like the S24 more 

Did you demo the Relab VSR S24? How does it compare to your System 6000 hardware?


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## John Rodd (Jan 26, 2017)

davidgary73 said:


> @John Rodd ..i read your post on FB. I did demo both VSS3 and Relab VSR S24. Like the S24 more
> 
> Did you demo the Relab VSR S24? How does it compare to your System 6000 hardware?



Hi David

As I own over 40 channels of various hardware reverbs, and I already own many different reverb plugins already.... I have not gotten around to demoing the Relab VSR S24 yet.

My rigs are very, very stable, so I'm also hesitant to introduce new plugins to the rigs unless i really need to .


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## Dietz (Jan 27, 2017)

synthetic said:


> I hope there's a surround version someday. Not much available for surround reverbs except Exponential and Altiverb.



E.g.


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## Musicam (Jan 27, 2017)

Where can I buy "VSS™ 4HD plugin for Logic X?


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Jan 27, 2017)

Musicam said:


> Where can I buy "VSS™ 4HD plugin for Logic X?


 
you can't.


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## Musicam (Jan 27, 2017)

Not like VSS3?


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## jamwerks (Jan 27, 2017)

Would be interesting to hear thoughts on VSR S24 vs VSS4HD


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## muk (Jan 27, 2017)

VSR S24 was inspired by VSS6 though, not VSS4HD.


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## Will Blackburn (Feb 16, 2017)

how does this stack up against B2? Ive had great results with B2.


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## Phryq (Sep 9, 2017)

*Bump

So which reverb / specialization software is the

most realistic?
most useful?
most beautiful?
most transparent?
favorite?

specifically between B2, Altiverb, QL Spaces, Ircam _Spat_ v3.

I'm guessing adaptiverb could win most transparent, but personally I don't like it.

B2 seems most versatile.

Realistic I'd say Altiverb


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## synthpunk (Sep 11, 2017)

Fabfilter R2 also seems to be gaining.

Valhalla for best bang for the buck.


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## Phryq (Sep 12, 2017)

Trying the FabFilter demo... looks like built-in EQs... might take some learning.

I guess we'd need to ask about the FAbFilter verb in another thread.


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## aaronventure (Sep 12, 2017)

I mostly use LXP Native and Spat/Verb3, and sometimes Altiverb (mostly just for brass). Spat is really transparent and truly gives sense of space to whatever dry stuff you run through it. Couple it with VSS2 for Mic simulation and you have an excellent combo. However, true sense of space and transparency is not always what music needs, and so I use the other two as well. 

For "tail", I use the Lexicon, there's nothing I like more. It's my go-to reverb and I don't see that changing anytime soon. It always seems to have the exact spectral properties that I want and I don't remember the last time I had to route it out to EQ just the reverb. 

Spat is _VERY _expensive (€1149). Unless you're making decent money and see yourself using it heavily (they have a demo option), either wait for a sale (I got it for less than €600 which is still a lot) or don't buy it at all. 

LXP, like I said, is a workhorse in my studio, and it seems to be https://www.thomann.de/gb/lexicon_lxp_native_reverb_bundle.htm (on a ridiculous sale for €73 at Thomann.de) - this should be a no brainer, but they have a demo as well so you don't have to take my word for it and go for it blindly.


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## MChangoM (Sep 16, 2017)

aaronventure said:


> I mostly use LXP Native and
> LXP, like I said, is a workhorse in my studio, and it seems to be https://www.thomann.de/gb/lexicon_lxp_native_reverb_bundle.htm (on a ridiculous sale for €73 at Thomann.de) - this should be a no brainer, but they have a demo as well so you don't have to take my word for it and go for it blindly.



That is a great price for LXP! Conflicting info on Lexicon site if it requires a hardware iLok USB plug or just authorization through the iLok software. Anyone know?


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## aaronventure (Sep 16, 2017)

http://lexiconpro.com/en/softwares/lxp-native-reverb-plug-in-bundle-aax-vst-rtas-v1-2-2-windows-64-bit (The page) says "This product requires a second generation iLok™ (iLok2)". That's the plug (current is 3rd gen).


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## MChangoM (Sep 16, 2017)

aaronventure said:


> http://lexiconpro.com/en/softwares/lxp-native-reverb-plug-in-bundle-aax-vst-rtas-v1-2-2-windows-64-bit (The page) says "This product requires a second generation iLok™ (iLok2)". That's the plug (current is 3rd gen).



Thanks. The authorization instructions at the very bottom of the product page (http://lexiconpro.com/en/products/lxp-native-reverb-plug-in-bundle) make no mention of the USB plug. But everywhere else mentions the requirement.


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## chimuelo (Sep 17, 2017)

I use DSP and Hardware based verbs.
Prefer CPUs concentrate on other chores.
ReLabs made a 15 year old Lexicon Algo I still use, and an unfinished Ursa Major that's fantastic.
Now I know why it's unfinished.
Think I'll give these a try.
If one of these can do ducking I'll give Native a try again.
Would love to see if Decay can be modulated in real time glitch free.
Love spending for the right reasons.


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