# Bass Clarinets



## SamGarnerStudios (Oct 1, 2013)

In concert pitch film scores I know piccolo, contrabassoon, celeste, contrabass, glock, xylo, guitars, are all written without the octave transposition to avoid ledger lines. Is Bass Clarinet included in this or should I write with bass clef?


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## Casey Edwards (Oct 1, 2013)

As far as I know, Bass Clarinet for conductor score purposes you notate at sounding pitch in Bass Clef. For the player you write in the traditional french style of a Major 9th transposition reading in Treble Clef.


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## JJP (Oct 1, 2013)

Typically for "C" or "Concert" scores bass clarinet is written in bass clef where it sounds. It avoids confusion as to which clarinet is being requested.


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## rgames (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm a clarinetist and haven't played a lot of bass but I've never seen a part in bass clef or in concert pitch. They might be that way on the score but I haven't seen it in parts.

Bass clarinet fingerings are all the same as soprano but an octave down so the parts are written transposed an octave but in treble clef (usually transposed to Bb as are most soprano parts). Doing that allows clarinetists to easily double on soprano and bass (and any other clarinet for that matter - clarinetists never transpose or switch clefs - we have one set of fingerings for each printed note).

rgames


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## JJP (Oct 1, 2013)

That's the whole point of a concert score - none of the parts are transposed on the score.

The parts for the musicians are always transposed.


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## rgames (Oct 1, 2013)

OK - we're only talking concert-pitch scores here. Missed that...

I guess I haven't really looked at a lot of concert pitch scores. I just went through a bunch of my scores (not concert pitch) and bass clarinet is always shown in treble clef but transposed to Bb. Maybe it's a difference in convention between the film world and the concert music world. However, my John Williams scores show bass clar in Bb treble clef at the octave, and he's pretty well-known in the film world 

I still don't get the question, though - the only way to avoid lots of ledger lines in the score is to transpose the extreme instruments in octaves. *Not* transposing the octave would produce lots of ledger lines.

rgames


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## Pietro (Oct 2, 2013)

I think there are different schools of writing for bass clarinet.

Most common however is the mixed notation, as Casey said. Bass clef (as sounds) for the C scores and treble clef (major 9th transposition) for parts.

In Sibelius, there are two notations of bass clarinet, that you can chose when adding instrument or changing instrument. The one mentioned above is the "Bass Clarinet in Bb [bass clef, treble transp.]". Does the transpositions automatically as expected.

- Piotr


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## SamGarnerStudios (Oct 2, 2013)

Thanks guys for the responses. I know parts are always transposed, I'm specifically asking about the bass clarinet on a concert score where the extreme instruments are not transposed the octave on the score to avoid having excessive leger lines. 

@rgames. From what I've been told and instructed to do, for film cues the extreme instruments maintain the octave to avoid ledger lines. So Double bass is written in concert pitch, but written an octave above where it sounds so you don't have a bunch of ledger lines. Same with pic and all the other instruments I've listed. Parts are transposed of course.


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## rgames (Oct 2, 2013)

SamGarnerStudios @ Wed Oct 02 said:


> Double bass is written in concert pitch, but written an octave above where it sounds so you don't have a bunch of ledger lines.


Correct - the written notes are transposed an octave.

I guess you're saying octave transposition is not transposition like Bb for clar or F for horn where the key signature changes. It's still transposed, but at the octave so the key signature is the same.

rgames


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## JJP (Oct 2, 2013)

A bit of confusion about "concert" scores for people who don't have to deal with them often is common. The problem is that scores that are commonly called "concert" scores are not true concert scores because of the octave transposing instruments. Then you throw in things like Hal Leonard's house style for the Williams scores, which are no reflection on how his scores are originally notated because they are revamped orchestral suites, and the confusion just grows.

In order to be clear on some scores, I have used octave transposed bass and treble clefs to create true concert scores. (Those are the standard treble and bass clefs with a little "8" above or below them. They are most common in tenor vocal parts.) It's just a personal technique I like. That way if a copyist has any kind of question, for example the contrabass is abnormally high, the clef clarifies what is truly intended. The copyist or anyone else can see that all instruments are notated *exactly* where they sound.

The other option is to just write in transposed score. However, some people loathe dealing with transposed scores in recording situations where there is the potential need for quick rewrites on the stand.

Funny side note: I know of one person who used to write concert french horn parts in alto clef. It makes sense if you think about it, but it sure looks weird on a score or sketch and kinda' messes with your head. (o)


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## JJP (Oct 2, 2013)

rgames @ Wed Oct 02 said:


> I guess you're saying octave transposition is not transposition like Bb for clar or F for horn where the key signature changes. It's still transposed, but at the octave so the key signature is the same.


rgames - You nailed it. That's the way it's handled on most "concert" scores, so that's where the confusion originates. The octave transposing instruments are left transposed, but it's still called a "concert" score.

The intent is to be able to quickly see the harmony rather than getting an accurate representation of the true sounding notes. Personally I like to have both, but then we all have our hang-ups. :wink: 

Sam - Go ahead and write your bass clarinet parts in bass clef on the concert score. There should be no confusion that way.


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## rgames (Oct 2, 2013)

A related convention that has always confused me: on concert scores, I often see transposing brass (e.g. F horn) written transposed but with no key signature, so the key is indicated with accidentals.

What's up with that?

rgames


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## Casey Edwards (Oct 2, 2013)

rgames @ Wed Oct 02 said:


> A related convention that has always confused me: on concert scores, I often see transposing brass (e.g. F horn) written transposed but with no key signature, so the key is indicated with accidentals.
> 
> What's up with that?
> 
> rgames



It was taught to me in academics that horns are to never read accidentals on their parts, regardless of it being concert or film music. I'm pretty sure this is directly related to the history of playing the natural horn, a valveless instrument.


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## SamGarnerStudios (Oct 2, 2013)

I think I've come to the conclusion of writing in bass clef on the score. According to someone that works in a film score prep house, he said most, if not all concert scores have bass clarinet in bass clef in the score, just to avoid any confusion.


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