# The myth of the un-moderated community...



## el-bo (Mar 10, 2021)

Am I mistaken, or is this place really, for the most part, self-moderating? In giving us enough scope to act like adults or idiots...and/or adult idiots, it seems like we manage to moderate our own behaviour. Perhaps there's a whole crew of mods doing their job so well that they move among us unnoticed, removing comments and members like ninja in the night.

Or...


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## dzilizzi (Mar 10, 2021)

What you didn't know is that between the brain and typing and what shows up on the screen is this moderating script that you don't see. Then they make you believe that is what you wrote and instead of the actual #[email protected]^$^$%& you thought you said, it shows up as "You know, that doesn't sound quite right. Maybe it should be this?"

It's very sneaky and subversive.....


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## chillbot (Mar 10, 2021)

#freehatjay


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## JohnG (Mar 10, 2021)

@el-bo -- we are all living in the matrix. Free will is an illusion.


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## el-bo (Mar 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> What you didn't know is that between the brain and typing and what shows up on the screen is this moderating script that you don't see. Then they make you believe that is what you wrote and instead of the actual #[email protected]^$^$%& you thought you said, it shows up as "You know, that doesn't sound quite right. Maybe it should be this?"


Interesting! So, if I were to write "What were those fucking idiots thinking, not giving us legato?", you'd see "The developers have thus far offered a slightly-limited articulation palette. Let's hope they add in legato with a future update"?


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## el-bo (Mar 10, 2021)

chillbot said:


> #freehatjay


I don't know what that means


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## chillbot (Mar 10, 2021)

Honestly if you really think this forum is largely un-moderated I think you've missed a significant part of the forum.


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## el-bo (Mar 10, 2021)

chillbot said:


> Honestly if you really think this forum is largely un-moderated I think you've missed a significant part of the forum.


Well, I've seen threads get chopped and sent to the drama zone and know some of the lore around legendary threads. But on a day-to-day basis, on the 'normal' boards, it seems to run more smoothly than I've seen a community run...ever, on't'internet.

I might be wrong


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 10, 2021)

I know that you can't write that "idiots should be used as human shields in a conflict"...


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## dzilizzi (Mar 10, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Interesting! So, if I were to write "What were those fucking idiots thinking, not giving us legato?", you'd see "The developers have thus far offered a slightly-limited articulation palette. Let's hope they add in legato with a future update"?


That's it. I think, for the most part, people here behave pretty well as long as you don't discuss certain subjects. Like whether CSS really sucks but no one wants to admit their favorite string library is Garritan, so they just say CSS is the best!


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## el-bo (Mar 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> That's it. I think, for the most part, people here behave pretty well as long as you don't discuss certain subjects. Like whether CSS really sucks but no one wants to admit their favorite string library is Garritan, so they just say CSS is the best!


Isn't the best string library the one we just had to buy? it absolutely has to be much better 'cause it cost so much


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## dzilizzi (Mar 10, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Isn't the best string library the one we just had to buy? it absolutely has to be much better 'cause it cost so much


I think it is the one we haven't got yet. It must be better than what we have. At least until we get it.


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## companyofquail (Mar 10, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Isn't the best string library the one we just had to buy? it absolutely has to be much better 'cause it cost so much


Unless it was abbey road. Because it is apparently missing too many things and/or the way it’s being rolled out and handled is piss poor. Lol!


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 10, 2021)

I was thinking much the same about the forum the other day, after wading through a particularly nasty Twitter thread. 

Maybe it’s because the only people who can afford to spend $500 on a string library (and never use it!) are at the very least, functioning adults.😏


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## Tremendouz (Mar 10, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Maybe it’s because the only people who can afford to spend $500 on a string library (and never use it!) are at the very least, functioning adults.😏


Yeah, uh, totally. Of course.

*Looks around in search of a functioning adult in the room*


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## Loïc D (Mar 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> What you didn't know is that between the brain and typing and what shows up on the screen is this moderating script that you don't see. Then they make you believe that is what you wrote and instead of the actual #[email protected]^$^$%& you thought you said, it shows up as "You know, that doesn't sound quite right. Maybe it should be this?"
> 
> It's very sneaky and subversive.....


Aaaaaah, this explains the reviews on the music I post ! 
Thank you Lizzie.


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## SergeD (Mar 10, 2021)

The average people are older here, some of them migrated from the Northensounds forum which was popular in the years 1900-1950. So, as you may guess, some venerable musicians topped 150 years of age here! They protect this atoll by pouring their wisdom all over the community. You can easily recognize them in their posts which are sometimes nonsense.


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## Stringtree (Mar 10, 2021)

Or bring up soundfonts ffs. (Rolling on the floor, laughing)


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## Tremendouz (Mar 10, 2021)

Stringtree said:


> Or bring up soundfonts ffs. (Rolling on the floor, laughing)


The "fiddle" patch from TimbresOfHeaven.sf2 is poor man's Joshua Bell Violin.


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## Polkasound (Mar 11, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Am I mistaken, or is this place really, for the most part, self-moderating? In giving us enough scope to act like adults or idiots...and/or adult idiots, it seems like we manage to moderate our own behaviour.


I think it's because the forum is geared toward orchestral music creation, which is a job/hobby that, like gardening and antique collecting, attracts primarily civil adults. For that reason, there is far less moderation needed here than on forums for topics like gaming, politics, sports, or celebrities.

Now and then, a troll finds their way to VI-Control, but there aren't many of them composing orchestral music, so the forum runs pretty smoothly.


Some moderating is done with explanation so that people can know what happened to certain posts or certain members, but sometimes it is done quickly and quietly. A couple weeks ago, an entire thread in Off-Topics - General Musings suddenly vanished into thin air.

The small amount of moderation that does happen when members cause problems is crucial. When a forum is disbanded or otherwise left un-moderated, a form of entropy takes over. First, foul-mouthed trolls dig in and drive the civil members away. Then spam bots discover the site and drive the trolls out with ads for prescription medication, tactical knives, and home loans.

So, to anyone who came to VI-Control today to buy an iPhone for 90% off or Tramadol at wholesale prices, you're a little early. Please check back in 20 years.


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## el-bo (Mar 14, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> I think it's because the forum is geared toward orchestral music creation, which is a job/hobby that, like gardening and antique collecting, attracts primarily civil adults. For that reason, there is far less moderation needed here than on forums for topics like gaming, politics, sports, or celebrities.


Actually, that's really the thought I had before starting the thread i.e that given enough rope to hang themselves, adults generally won't. There might sometimes be a bit of jostling and taking of names, but in the end the pervasive feeling seems to be one of maintaining the kind of place 'we' want to keep returning to i.e self-moderation (aka not shitting on our own collective doorstep).



Polkasound said:


> The small amount of moderation that does happen when members cause problems is crucial. When a forum is disbanded or otherwise left un-moderated, a form of entropy takes over. First, foul-mouthed trolls dig in and drive the civil members away. Then spam bots discover the site and drive the trolls out with ads for prescription medication, tactical knives, and home loans.
> 
> So, to anyone who came to VI-Control today to buy an iPhone for 90% off or Tramadol at wholesale prices, you're a little early. Please check back in 20 years.


Oh yeah...I've been on a completely un-moderated forum, even advocating for it to remain as such. Seems like a pretty good idea, in principle (free-speech, and all that), but it doesn't take long to just degenerate into an awful mess.

Having said that, if you know where I can get some Tramadol and a Balisong I'd really appreciate it


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## NYC Composer (Mar 14, 2021)

This forum is totally self-moderating if your self is named Mike Greene.


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## GNP (Mar 14, 2021)

Self-censorship is what keeps you on, blathering your mouth off is what keeps you banned for weeks (though mods told me days) like me.


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## el-bo (Mar 14, 2021)

NYC Composer said:


> This forum is totally self-moderating if your self is named Mike Greene.


I'm sure you're joking. However, just in case it wasn't clear: I'm not inferring that Mike isn't spending a lot of time spinning VI-C plates, nor am I suggesting this place is a breeze to keep running. It may just be, as another member pointed out, that I don't frequent the parts of the forum where things probably tend towards being more heated and where perhaps members are getting banned on the daily.

I have also seen (also been part of) threads where Mike has stepped in to bring things back to a simmer, enforcing a member 'time-out' and issuing a warning of a possible, impending split to the 'Drama Zone'.

Either way, it just seems to flow in a way that I've not seen elsewhere...hence the thread


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## NYC Composer (Mar 14, 2021)

You’re right-I was joking. Pretty damn clever too.


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## el-bo (Mar 14, 2021)

GNP said:


> Self-censorship is what keeps you on, blathering your mouth off is what keeps you banned for weeks (though mods told me days) like me.


Mods!! Plural? Interesting...

(No need to divulge any names  )


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## Polkasound (Mar 14, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Mods!! Plural? Interesting...


Yes, there are a few mods here. Jdiggity1 and Craig Sharmat are two that I can think of offhand. I was once asked to be a moderator here, and although I feel honored to have been asked, I declined because I just don't want to re-visit that responsibility. Plus, my moderation style is a bit different than Mike's. Mine is entirely by-the-book, which means every member regardless of stature, and every post regardless of content, is treated the same under the rules.

When I ran my forum years ago, naturally I had to interpret when a rule was being broken, but I never allowed myself to take a liberty beyond that. On my forum, if my best friend would have gotten into an argument with Adolph Hitler, and my friend called Hitler a disparaging name, I would have deleted my friend's post. Moderation actions should only enforce the rules, and not be influenced by opinion or emotion.



el-bo said:


> Oh yeah...I've been on a completely un-moderated forum, even advocating for it to remain as such. Seems like a pretty good idea, in principle (free-speech, and all that), but it doesn't take long to just degenerate into an awful mess.


You're right, it is a good idea in principle, but it's funny how all the insolent trolls who clamor the loudest for their right to free speech are the ones who want all the annoying ads for Tramadol deleted.

Given enough time, un-moderated forums will regress into a cesspool of political mudslinging, racism, misogyny, prostitution, trolling, scamming, and spamming. I often use Craigslist Rants & Raves as an example of internet society reduced to its lowest form. It's self-moderated so spam doesn't stay up very long, but it's self-moderated by uneducated armchair politicians, racists, trolls, conspiracy theorists, bigots, and perverts.


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## el-bo (Mar 15, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> Yes, there are a few mods here. Jdiggity1 and Craig Sharmat are two that I can think of offhand. I was once asked to be a moderator here, and although I feel honored to have been asked, I declined because I just don't want to re-visit that responsibility. Plus, my moderation style is a bit different than Mike's. Mine is entirely by-the-book, which means every member regardless of stature, and every post regardless of content, is treated the same under the rules.
> 
> When I ran my forum years ago, naturally I had to interpret when a rule was being broken, but I never allowed myself to take a liberty beyond that. On my forum, if my best friend would have gotten into an argument with Adolph Hitler, and my friend called Hitler a disparaging name, I would have deleted my friend's post. Moderation actions should only enforce the rules, and not be influenced by opinion or emotion.
> 
> ...


Ah, gotcha. So there are mods after all. 

Agreed pretty much with the rest, although I'm not sure Hitler would've been allowed to join my forum


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