# Mutliple Kontakt standalones on 1 machine?



## whinecellar (Dec 7, 2009)

Hello,

I'm doing some experimenting to find the ideal way of running a LOT of Kontakt instances on one Mac. My scoring template currently uses about 128 Kontakt instruments, spread out across 2 computers (each one running a standalone Kontakt 3.5 completely loaded with 64 instruments).

I still have issues with plugin mode in Logic, the biggest one being Logic's random reloading bug: you do NOT want to experience that when you have 64+ instruments loaded. Even if that weren't an issue, loading 128+ instruments in Kontakt (inside Logic) starts getting funky: pops, clicks, etc. Kontakt itself is more than capable though, especially since all my streaming libraries are spread out across dedicated drives.

So I've heard of people duplicating the Kontakt standalone app and running mulitple instances of that. That's not technically supported, but if it works, I'd love to hear about it.

KMS is great, but as a result, I now run out of instrument slots WAY before I run out of RAM! Here's another plea for Kontakt to allow more than 64 channels/parts - pretty please!!!

And yes, I know about Bidule & Vienna Ensemble Pro, but they each add another layer of complexity I'd rather do without...

Thoughts? Opinions?

Thanks!


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## Frederick Russ (Dec 7, 2009)

Hi Jim,

VE Pro or Bidule work great for what you're wanting to do - actually it might decrease the complexity because once you build it, you click one button, it loads all the Kontakt plug-in instances inside Bidule. Then you boot Logic and see the bidules showing up as midi choices. Then build your template. The work to do this depending on what you have saved in Kontakt can go relatively fast.


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## madbulk (Dec 7, 2009)

Kontakt 2 used to let me rename the apps K2.1 and K2.2 and then I'd get two standalone instances. The problem was that they shared a pref. So the midi port assignments were always the same on both instances. No good for you and your fully loaded 64 channels.
So then I went to running one packed K3 and one packed K2. That solved the midi port preferences problem. But you need soundflower (at least) to get the audio back to Logic. And I could never get that to work. Very machine specific issues it would seem. Some work easy, some never. 
At least this is something you can try for free. Gets you to 256 tracks on your two machines.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 7, 2009)

That multiple stand-alones set-up works very well with K3.5 and multiple IAC busses. You'd only have to load two Kontakt instances to get 128 instruments. There are advantages to using a host, but it's not necessary - although like Freddie I think VE Pro removes complexity once it's set up (although you will end up with eight instances, and unfortunately Spaces set-up aren't recalled).

One reason I say it removes complexity is that you need to think about how you're going to route the audio into Logic. Bidule uses ReWire, which puts everything on one processing core. VE Pro doesn't. But if you're not using a host, you'll have to use hardware (cable out to cable in) or a hardware loopback mode. Or Soundflower, which I used to be enthusiastic about but am less so today; it's not as solid on my present Mac as it was on my G5.

The interfaces with loopback are RME, Apogee Symphony, and Metric Halo. I've had very good luck using the latter's loopback mode.

By the way, if you use VE Pro in stand-alone mode you can put everything inside one instance. It'll respond to IAC busses rather than being limited to one 16-channel MIDI bus per instance. But then it doesn't stream the audio back into Logic, and you can't do an offline bounce.


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## madbulk (Dec 7, 2009)

You can just fire up two K3.5's? I didn't know that. Sorry.


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## gsilbers (Dec 7, 2009)

I heard that Jack os is doing better than soundflower


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## whinecellar (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks Nick - I was hoping to hear from you on this 



Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Dec 07 said:


> multiple stand-alones set-up works very well with K3.5 and multiple IAC busses ...you need to think about how you're going to route the audio into Logic.



Yep, this is how I do it now (using IAC MIDI). I use RME gear and I have 8 channels looped back to Logic via Totalmix - works flawlessly.

So do you simply duplicate the Kontakt app and give each a different name?



Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Dec 07 said:


> Bidule uses ReWire, which puts everything on one processing core.



This is the main reason I wanted to stay away from Bidule. Kontakt is multi-core aware and works great - I just need more than 64 parts loaded.

Thanks also for the info on VE Pro in stand-alone mode - good to know. I'm assuming Kontakt still uses KMS when hosted inside VE Pro?

Thanks for the info guys...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 7, 2009)

Jim, there are reports of some problems with scripts in VE Pro, but so far I haven't encountered them.

Brian, you have to re-name additional Kontakt instances (which happens automatically when you duplicate them).


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 7, 2009)

Try it!


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## madbulk (Dec 7, 2009)

Just tell me how to spell it, Mom! I don't even know where we keep the dictionary anymore!


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## madbulk (Dec 7, 2009)

In a hastily run experiment, I seem to be correct, I'm sorry to say.


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## MaraschinoMusic (Dec 7, 2009)

It is perfectly possible to run multiple instances of Kontakt in standalone mode (i.e. not hosted by any other program), but your audio card (or equivalent) drivers must be capable of operating in multi-client mode - which many aren't!

I run Kontakt in standalone mode on two computers simultaneously, treating them like big hardware samplers - and the audio outs go straight to the mixing desk.


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## whinecellar (Dec 12, 2009)

Hey Guys,

Problem solved: I just got my Kontakt 4 update and am successfully running it alongside K3.5 on the same machine. They're even playing nice together with my RME Fireface, sharing the same channels - and they each have their own Memory Servers.

So there you have it - 128 channels on one machine! I do find it interesting that they would develop KMS and essentially blow away the memory limits, only to keep us limited to 64 channels... how 'bout we politely bug NI to give Kontakt 128 or 256 channels now that KMS is a fact of life?


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## reddognoyz (Dec 22, 2009)

I'm running 8 instances of kontakt 3.5 in bidule and it's working great for me.

I'm not using rewire. It really loads down DP7 for some reason and I have enough hardware i/o (4X MOTU 2408'S) to not have to. 

Kontakt seems to work particularly well in bidule. You can sync back to DP using midi sync if you need your HWW's, or what ever to run at proper tempo.


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