# Why are media/film-composers barely write personal tracks?



## Lionel Schmitt (Aug 11, 2022)

Hi!

It puzzles me quite a bit that barely any composers writing for films, trailers, production-music etc release or write personal tracks/albums.

Of course some are probably seeing it as "just a job" and thus it's obvious they wouldn't do it in their free-time.

But there are also many others who are actually very passionate about it.


And still just do commercial work. Which confuses me since most branches of commercial or media composition are very limited in several ways.
So why isn't there the urge coming up to write without these kinds of restrictions?

Others might have no time for it because otherwise they'd struggle financially.
So I'm only talking about people who could afford it of course. 

But to me it seems like 99% of composers doing media work don't, and I'm sure it's not just 1% who could afford it.
Even just a few tracks per year.

I personally will certainly do much more personal work as soon as my income looks somewhat decent and consistent. So I'll never make more than 3000 bucks a month I guess because I'll immediately reduce commercial work and do more personal stuff haha...

Meanwhile others wouldn't have to do any commercial work anymore for decades to be financially afloat but still only do that without any personal tracks haha. It's a huge mystery 


My theory (just an idea, no solid science obviously): Habit. The brain always learns stuff and makes you want to repeat it even if it's not the best thing you could do or even a terrible thing, even regardless of whether it's enjoyable or not or whether there is something more enjoyable you could do instead. I think that's pretty established.
So I guess if you spend years or decades only doing commercial work it might get extremely hard to do anything else even if you'd actually would want to without that habit. But because you still get to write some great music and noone considers commercial music production a bad thing it doesn't seem like a bad habit and you keep doing it till it's rock solid.
That's why I always do some non-commercial stuff, even just 1 hour here and there because I think it's extremely dangerous to get into such a habit if there is any concern about music in it's purest form at all.

Thomas Bergersen seems to be one of the very few or perhaps only people who moved to personal works almost entirely after finding success in the media and making enough money off that. 

He even paid over 300.000 dollar or something else for his Humanity series and doesn't expect to make it back. What a dramatic difference to the media-only approach of everyone else


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## JohnG (Aug 11, 2022)

Everything I write is personal, whether it’s for a game or a story told with pictures. Consequently, I don’t see as huge a difference between working in the media business and writing ‘for myself.’

I see the commissions we get as media composers as a set of somewhat arbitrary constraints that help us to write in a way we might not otherwise consider. 

Like many here, I assume, I try to focus on my most honest, direct responses to imagery, a story, costumes, characters. When asked, I can write paragraphs — sometimes pages — of descriptions of what I was thinking when I wrote a cue, even a very short one. Everything from instrumentation to register to dynamics emanates (in the best cases) from that response. Part of it is cognitive, part unfiltered emotion.

Nevertheless, you have a point and I still see what you mean. I wish we had more ‘concert music’ from Jerry Goldsmith or James Newton Howard.


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## tmhuud (Aug 11, 2022)

Because there's no time.

More Concert music from JG would have been great.


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## CT (Aug 11, 2022)

Opposite problem for me. I write a lot of "personal" music. If only I could do stuff I actually get paid for more often.


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## MarkusS (Aug 11, 2022)

I write personal music on the side and have been doing so for over a decade. I publish under an artist name to separate the two in my head.

I think my commercial music benefits from it greatly and vice versa.

It’s fantastic the freedom and it’s also amazing when people all over the world enjoy your music for itself just by listening without film or game.

Sometimes I really need to cut off the commercial production and go in myself and remind me why I wanted to do music in the first place.

At some point when always working for the vision and stories of others you can lose the connection to your own creativity.

Atm I’m working with a great singer and I’m enjoying myself so much.


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## NekujaK (Aug 11, 2022)

Each day, there is a limited amount of gas in my creative/productive tank. And there's simply not enough to adequately fuel all the different projects I either need or want to work on.

For example, I used to do a lot of video work for clients, but once I started writing music for film and libraries, I no longer had the time or energy for the video work. I tried doing it all of it at the same time, but I quickly burned out and all of my projects suffered for it.

I have personal music projects that are waiting in the wings, but I've been too busy cranking out media music to make headway on any of them. And for me at least, it's not simply a matter of allocating a couple of hours to one project and a couple of hours to another. Each project requires focus and dedication, and continually switching between them simply doesn't work.

I wish I could do it all, but the reality is, I need to carefully choose where my energy goes. And I find this to be especially true as I get older. Pulling all-nighters isn't so easy anymore


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 11, 2022)

JohnG said:


> Everything I write is personal, whether it’s for a game or a story told with pictures. Consequently, I don’t see as huge a difference between working in the media business and writing ‘for myself.’


Yeah, similar here (although I don't write at John's level!)
Often a commission is a chance to try a new style or new library, so the personal satisfaction and fuelling the "creative muse" inside comes from that. 

That and 24 hours, family etc etc


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## Henu (Aug 12, 2022)

Just like @JohnG , I don't do unpersonal stuff. I'm notoriously bad at taking any project as "just a project" and am voluntarily crunching like hell at times to ensure the music I deliver is offering something that I can be personally proud of. (No, you shouldn't crunch though, but optimize instead. I'm still working with that.)

The music I compose and deliver needs to first and foremost serve the client's needs and platform, but I take it as a honorary thing for myself and the client to offer something else than typical and mediocre preset-riding. Of course that doesn't mean that my music is better than someone else's- it just means that I am willing to go for that extra mile to ensure it's the best _I can personally deliver_ for each project.

For me, each project is a valuable lesson in learning, having fun and trying to succeed myself, and this attitude is actually the very reason why I am still able after 15+ years of doing this to be excited and compose personally even into the dullest and uninspiring crap I'm asked to do. That excitement and personal development keeps me motivated, and when being motivated, we usually deliver better results.


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## Saxer (Aug 12, 2022)

I write for myself too. I'm not always busy with customers work so there is time for it. But it's easier to get something done if somebody is waiting for it. It's not really satisfying to produce music for the hard drive at home.


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## mybadmemory (Aug 12, 2022)

My guess is the answer is as simple as time and energy. After a full day of work (which for many people in the creative fields is more than 8 hours) there’s simply no fuel left. You have to sustain the other areas of your life as well. Go to the gym. Get the groceries. Cook dinner. Do the dishes. Clean the apartment. Take the shower. Hang out with your friends and family. You’re always pressed for time, and sitting in front of a computer 8-12 hours a day for work doesn’t leave much space for wanting to continue that as soon as the working day ends.

My job is not in music but in design, but I guess it’s the same thing regardless. I only really have time and energy for personal projects on longer than average weekends or vacations!


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## mikeh-375 (Aug 12, 2022)

For me too, like @mybadmemory it was the lack of time and energy given that I worked all hours and over several time zones.
When I left the industry, I could finally concentrate on what I was fully capable of writing without restrictions. Turns out I can write Symphonies and Concertos etc. Whether they're any good is another matter, but I'm finally utilising all I studied for and know. Oh and I know who my wife is now... . Turns out she does more than provide me with coffee.


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## Gerbil (Aug 12, 2022)

I always promised myself that once I hit 50, I'd quit composing for cash and turn to writing concert music as that was my original ambition. Almost there and then energy prices rise, my kids are heading off to university and need some support and a recession looms and I'm thinking "maybe not"!

Like others, I don't have enough energy in the tank after a working day to sit and churn out a tone poem. I wish I saw writing media music the same way that JohnG does, but tbh, a lot of the time (not always mind) it just feels like churning out hack music that I'd never write if there was no financial reward to be had 

One day though ... one day ...


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## pmountford (Aug 12, 2022)

JohnG said:


> Everything I write is personal, whether it’s for a game or a story told with pictures. Consequently, I don’t see as huge a difference between working in the media business and writing ‘for myself.’


Perhaps it is the projects that I have worked on that makes me come to a different conclusion. 

In my experience when I've written for the concert hall it has been so much more rewarding because so many of the constraints just aren't there. Be it syncing to scene, director's whims, having to create another fashionable pastiche from a temp track... Obviously who you work with and at what level will impact this to a lesser/greater extent.

Whilst constraints can in themselves lead to creativity, in my experience this hasn't been the case to the same degree when writing for film vs for concert hall. So much so that I walked away from filmscores a few years back after a truly enlightening experience of writing a suite for choir. 

Going back to the original question though, perhaps some reasons why this isn't done as often as expected could be financial, motivation, who's actually going to hear it...so what's the point, familiarity/comfort with current processes/projects.

If anyone is wondering how to address some of those issues in the UK then I would strongly suggest approaching Arts Council England as they have been incredibly supportive in my case.


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## Brasart (Aug 12, 2022)

Echoing John's post, for me it's those 2 things:

1. I'm very lucky that I have total creative freedom on the main projects I'm working on, so I'm basically writing personal music -- music I'd want to write on the side if I didn't get the chance to do so while working, so I don't really feel a need to write music outside of that.

2. Time, I just want to continue enjoying watching movies, series, playing games, seeing friends... Also still taking time to learn stuff about audio every week. I don't have the mental strength to go back at the computer after a full day of sitting at it to _"work"_ again. But sometimes I can be envious of musicians who just seem to be creating and composing 24/7, I just can't do it myself


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## J-M (Aug 12, 2022)

I've been wondering the same thing and I asked Trevor Morris about this during one of his live streams. "Would love to, but there's simply not enough time!"


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## mikeh-375 (Aug 12, 2022)

@pmountford has a similar view to me regarding the creative constraints within media work. One only has to listen to John Williams concert music to hear how different and more profoundly personal his work becomes outside of soundtracks. The two disciplines (concert and media), don't have much in common imv apart from some obvious similarities and are completely different aesthetic paradigms and processes. That was always an issue for me and eventually became the main reason I got out of media when I could afford to.


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## GtrString (Aug 12, 2022)

Most composers have done hundreds of tracks before making any money from it. Most of those are personal. So, everyone has been there. But as others have said, once you get paying clients, it reduces your time and energy to pursue personal ambitions.

Many try to merge the personal with the professional, and find ways to add their personal touch to the pro work, so there is that. It can be hard to separate the twain.

But there is also a lot of validation in getting paid for your work. To have people willing to give you their hard earned money, and take a risk on behalf of a project or organization, is not a small achievement. It makes you proud and willing to walk an extra mile for those people.

In that situation it can feel egocentric to spend time on personal ambitions, rather than take care of your health and show up fresh and prepared.

Imo it is good to have some personal projects, though, also career wise, but they just seem to progress very slow when you have other things to do. And in a world where the personal viewpoints seem to lose validation, it can actually make even more sense now as an artist to just do that, although I realize there are all types of "artists" and that some viewpoints are not for the common good in public space (caugh caugh kanye). I am a proponent for mindful personal work, though.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 12, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> It puzzles me quite a bit that barely any composers writing for films, trailers, production-music etc release or write personal tracks/albums.


How do you know that? There are countless composers on the planet, I think it may be the other way around for all we know. I write a ton of music for my personal enjoyment, everything from orchestral to Heavy Metal. I definitely have more of my own music archived than that of hired production.


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## Tim_Wells (Aug 12, 2022)

Interesting topic. I agree with much of what has been said above. 

Another factor is having "a home" for your music. It's more rewarding working on something knowing that someone needs it. It's important to someone. 

Sometimes with personal music, I feel a bit like I'm pissing in the wind. Just another tiny molecule of H2O in a humongous ocean of music. Very few really give a rat's ass. 

Now if you have a following or a group folks who really care about your music, your experience may be different.

(edit: I see @GtrString already hit on this concept).


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 12, 2022)

Tim_Wells said:


> Sometimes with personal music, I feel a bit like I'm pissing in the wind. Just another tiny molecule of H2O in a humongous ocean of music. Very few really give a rat's ass.


I know what you mean.

I’ve often thought about cracking out some sort of orchestral number, finely finessing those CCs…before remembering that no one is really going to listen to it.

Everyone’s digital life is an endless and constant scroll of stimuli already. Even this forum, which offers up a succession of understanding musical peers and fellow CC fiddlers…has a members composition area full of tumbleweeds.

Actually, I feel privileged to compose music on demand, although I suspect even some directors give the music less than half a listen sometimes too..


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## pmountford (Aug 12, 2022)

Tim_Wells said:


> Another factor is having "a home" for your music. It's more rewarding working on something knowing that someone needs it. It's important to someone.
> 
> Sometimes with personal music, I feel a bit like I'm pissing in the wind. Just another tiny molecule of H2O in a humongous ocean of music.


Absolutely agree. That's what I mean by motivation. Writing for a purpose could have an impact. It does in my case.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Aug 12, 2022)

Thanks everyone!

One of the main points coming up seems to be that there isn't enough time/energy left for personal work after the "job" basically.

Which I can understand on a person to person/individual level.
But it doesn't really enlighten me when it comes from people who don't "have" to work for money and could in theory make the time by taking on less work for some time or none at all.
Trevor Morris has been brought up, I of course don't know his financial status but I'd be surprised if he'd struggle financially when going easier on commercial work for some time. 

And yea, of course commercial/media music can be personal. It's great when you feel like you can write personal work while still doing the job, but I guess that depends heavily on what kind of projects come in.
Also, there is just hardly a comparison between limitless personal composing and having to fill someone elses vision, especially since it may have to be changed in a various ways. I always hear these weird unmusical changes in filmscores where some wonderful piece suddenly changes in a way that clearly wasn't done out of musical intent but because the "edit changed". Even if the score otherwise feels inspired and personal.
I guess it also depends on what one would actually write personally. It can actually be hard to tell if it's really the same when mostly or only writing the one or the other thing and getting used to it. I know that my personal music would hardly ever be used for anything haha.

Writing for a purpose is also an interesting thing. But actually rather sad IMO, since it seems music for music sake (not even "for concert" sake but literally.. just for music sake) is hardly a purpose for most. Of course it doesn't have to be for anyone, but would be nice if it was more common.
I personally would probably get 2-3 times as much done if it was just about writing out of personal interest rather than "for" anything or anyone.
Even when doing commercial work most of my time goes to aspects of the tracks that don't matter to anyone and won't be picked up on. But I still think it generates some "sense" of quality overall even if most wont pick out exactly what's happening.



Jeremy Spencer said:


> How do you know that? There are countless composers on the planet, I think it may be the other way around for all we know. I write a ton of music for my personal enjoyment, everything from orchestral to Heavy Metal. I definitely have more of my own music archived than that of hired production.


well from observation of the composers I take interest in. Unless the personal stuff doesn't get released anywhere, which may happen here and there but not common most likely. 
Most people will want to release something that took a lot of work and passion.


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## NekujaK (Aug 12, 2022)

I'm intrigued that for some folks, all music, whether commercial or not, is still considered "personal music", because my experience is the complete opposite. I mean yes of course, any music I make has my musical DNA baked into it, but still for me, commercial work and personal work come from two very different places internally, and exercise two very different creative muscles.

Part of this might be because nearly all of my "personal" music is in the songwriting realm, while the vast majority of my commercial work is instrumental.

The process of writing song lyrics (as a form of self-expression, and not for commercial projects) with the intent of performing and/or recording them, entails a more personal and introspective deep dive for me, than writing another trailer or television cue.

With media music, once I'm done with a project, I often don't recognize my own tracks when I hear them again. And if I discover I'm listening to one of my cues, I usually have no memory of writing it, and am often surprised by what I'm hearing. But that's never the case with a "personal" song, even when it's recorded by someone other than me. It usually transports me right back to the moment I wrote it, and I can recall minute details about melodic choices, chord choices, and the story behind the lyrics.

For me, media music is all about getting from point A to point B in the most effective way while satisfying a client's needs. It's like solving a puzzle, and when I succeed, I feel a momentary sense of accomplishment for completing a goal, and then it's on to the next puzzle. It definitely beats sitting in a cubicle stuffing envelopes all day, but I do envy composers who can pour their creative souls into commercial projects and get deeper satisfaction out of the process.


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## Pier (Aug 12, 2022)

Personally I find it much easier to write music for something in particular than for myself. It's very difficult for me to judge if something works or not without a context.

If I have to decide if something works based on my mood or personal taste it's basically impossible. I'm just too mercurial. One day I love the thing and the next I hate it. It's like asking me to say which music genre is my favorite. It depends on the day, the year, etc. In a way I'm constantly redefining myself and making fun of younger Pier because he liked such and such or he couldn't appreciate such and such.

And then there's also the detachment and objectivity that comes from working to satisfy a goal vs satisfying oneself.

Honestly I've only been able to articulate this very recently. For most of my life it was just just suffering and going through the meat grinding machine when trying to sit down to write personal music.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm missing some piece of the puzzle, some secret ingredient great artists have, or it's just that my character is not fit for making art.


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## NekujaK (Aug 12, 2022)

Pier said:


> Sometimes I wonder if I'm missing some piece of the puzzle, some secret ingredient great artists have, or it's just that my character is not fit for making art.


I go thru this at least once a day!

But all kidding aside, I personally know several musicians/songwriters/composers, all who have achieved levels of success I can only dream about, and they all go through this internal angst on a regular basis.

I think insecurity is part of the creative fabric that motivates us to try harder, even though at times, it can be soul-crushing and disheartening. Just follow your internal compass.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Aug 12, 2022)

For me the creative and personal aspect of commercial/media music is like being captive on a holiday park.
Yea, it may feel free and creative and great... but at the end you are captive on the park and can't leave. Can't explore the forest or go to the beach, that too far outside the confines.
Can't do a 30 minutes hybrid ethnic rock symphonic EDM track etc

That's why I leave it as often as possible to not get used to the fake freedom of that cool park.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 12, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> well from observation of the composers I take interest in. Unless the personal stuff doesn't get released anywhere, which may happen here and there but not common most likely.
> Most people will want to release something that took a lot of work and passion.


For me, personally, I never planned on releasing an album of my own music (other than stuff I write for my band). I have literally hundreds of completed tracks that I wrote over the past 30 years for personal reasons (catharsis if you will). Hmmmm....maybe I'll put out an album just for shitzengiggles.


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## Loïc D (Aug 12, 2022)

…because there’s no fun when noone is yelling at you.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Aug 12, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> I'm intrigued that for some folks, all music, whether commercial or not, is still considered "personal music", because my experience is the complete opposite. I mean yes of course, any music I make has my musical DNA baked into it, but still for me, commercial work and personal work come from two very different places internally, and exercise two very different creative muscles.
> 
> Part of this might be because nearly all of my "personal" music is in the songwriting realm, while the vast majority of my commercial work is instrumental.
> 
> ...


well one way to get more passion out of commercial work is to realize that it will impact personal work.
Could be good to look at it as some kind of exercise even if it doesn't seem to related to the style of ones personal work. Anything commercial with some kind of synthwork might help out with something related to that in a personal track etc....

or maybe digging through library and film music and finding some great / enjoyable examples of an otherwise less interesting commercial style. 
There is always the one or the other gem in a sea of generic stuff that may be inspiring. 
I'm listening to library music since I'm a kid basically so the interest is kinda hard-coded into my head..



Pier said:


> Personally I find it much easier to write music for something in particular than for myself. It's very difficult for me to judge if something works or not without a context.
> 
> If I have to decide if something works based on my mood or personal taste it's basically impossible. I'm just too mercurial. One day I love the thing and the next I hate it. It's like asking me to say which music genre is my favorite. It depends on the day, the year, etc. In a way I'm constantly redefining myself and making fun of younger Pier because he liked such and such or he couldn't appreciate such and such.
> 
> ...


Not sure that's too unusual, that's probably why some artistic releases take years to come together.
When going over something again and again and again (even just short work blocks rather than many hours) over a longer period of time eventually it should come together to something that lasts.
Of course to be balanced against the possibility of getting overanalytical and stuck.


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## NekujaK (Aug 12, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> well one way to get more passion out of commercial work is to realize that it will impact personal work.
> Could be good to look at it as some kind of exercise even if it doesn't seem to related to the style of ones personal work. Anything commercial with some kind of synthwork might help out with something related to that in a personal track etc....
> 
> or maybe digging through library and film music and finding some great / enjoyable examples of an otherwise less interesting commercial style.
> ...


Oh there's definitely a lot of cross-pollenation of influences that occur between musical projects. In fact, I'm relatively new to writing library music, so much of my commercial music is actually influenced by decades of personal work.

But it's the creative process itself that's different, at least for me. With personal songwriting, I've got something to say or get off my chest. I'm on a mission to bare my soul, so to speak. Composing for media is creative too, but in a completely different way. It's more of a mechanical process and there's less of me involved.

This is necessary because of the sheer volume of musical content that must be produced. The last film I worked on had nearly 100 individual cues. There's no way I could pour my heart and soul into every cue and deliver it on deadline, plus making changes along the way because the director kept changing their mind, or the producers had notes, etc.

There's a little more freedom with library music, but there's still a large volume of material that needs to be delivered on deadline. So the creative process needs to be streamlined and efficient. There aren't a lot of opportunities for soul searching


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## rgames (Aug 12, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> commercial work and personal work come from two very different places internally, and exercise two very different creative muscles.


This is exactly the case for me as well. I mostly quit writing commercial music a few years ago because, frankly, I didn't really like the music I was being asked to write.

And then when I did write the music I like, people quit paying me.

Alas.

rgames

EDIT: and yes, the processes are totally different. Yes, you're writing music in both cases but the constraints are vastly different and that leads to very different approaches. They're really different skillsets.


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## JohnG (Aug 12, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> For me the creative and personal aspect of commercial/media music is like being captive on a holiday park.


Hi Lionel,

I laughed reading your analogy. ^^ Your point is vivid and accurate -- for some situations at least, but not all, fortunately.

Part of it is experience, at least it is for me. When I started I spent disproportionate energy on maths -- timing scenes, working out hit points and BPM that fit everything just so. Moreover, I had to get the hero-worship out of my system for some great composers (some 'concert,' some film) that heavily influenced me.

As I grew more experienced, though, a number of things got better:

*1. Mechanics get easier --* I realised that the _musical_ and emotional impact of tempos was far more important than being perfect on every single hit, look, cut -- whatever. Put another way, I place the music first now, much more than I did formerly, and worry later about tying it directly to the picture edit.

*2. Over-Spotting -- * Everybody wants to pave over the entire picture these days with music. It's annoying, raises recording and mixing costs, and dilutes the impact of music; if music is 'always on,' it doesn't have the effect one might want when the Big Moment comes. So what does one do as a composer? Well, if it's spotted, you may have to have _something_ musical going on, but it doesn't all have to be full-on. Find intriguing music that doesn't intrude but is still 'valid' -- can be thought of as a long introduction or a long dénouement. It's up to you. But that way, you are doing as asked but doing it your way and in a way that makes the picture or game better anyway.

*3. "Library"* -- it's not crazy to write almost as if you're making a library for the movie or show or game, rather than scoring everything straight to picture. Choose three, maybe five (?) scenes that call for different feelings, and score those _from memory._ That way you avoid getting too tangled up in the picture itself and write the emotion first and (sometimes) more accurately. Then start messing around and get those musical ideas to fit specific scenes for the picture itself. Besides, since they keep editing until practically the release date, writing really good music first, and fitting it later, actually makes more sense.

If you write great music, the mechanics can, as you get more experienced, become more second nature. And I think you can write pretty good music for (almost) anything, no matter how much the project is like a "holiday park," as you so vividly expressed it.


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## EgM (Aug 13, 2022)

@Lionel Schmitt

I've been working non-stop this year for a game on Gameboy Color of all things and another due for kickstarter soon, this one on Steam/PC

I also have to work on the arranged version of that GBC game, this alone is quite some work!

I think like most people said here, when you're on contracts with deadlines, it's sometimes hard to make time for songs for ourselves/personal tracks.
I'm the kind of composer who just chooses his projects, I never hunt for them myself, I’d rather they come to me…

But your thread inspired me to continue building upon my endless personal tracks so I made this personal song today, for this thread lol, so with an hour and a half of work. Mainly to get myself accustomed to BBCSO Core, and using only that—it's quite fun working with limitations of only one library

I've ripped a part of SQEX Star Ocean II in a snowy scene just to test the waters


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## Saxer (Aug 14, 2022)

EgM said:


> @Lionel Schmitt
> 
> I've been working non-stop this year for a game on Gameboy Color of all things (Game is called Infinity) and another one called Astromeda, due for kickstarter soon, this one on Steam/PC
> 
> ...



33 degree Celsius here... so your song is kind of refreshing! Thanks.


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## mat1 (Aug 21, 2022)

Personal projects (for many reasons) are lower down the list than money and/or acclaim for the composers you’re looking at. Nothing wrong with that!

Part of the reason I can justify prioritising my artist project above all is that there is commercial value and opportunity in the music I write. I’m sure it would be much harder to justify significant time to it if that wasn’t the case. I like to think I would still have a passion project on the side either way but in reality probably not.


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## Galbaniél (Oct 28, 2022)

A lot of good point here. I think John Powell has some personal works too, if I'm not mistaken.

I've written personal music and done some custom works, but never written for a library (yet).
The piece I've gotten most money for was something I crapped out in a few hours, while some of my personal works have taken several years. I was (and still is) working on an album and as soon as I were finished with a track I would start with the next. Since I have other work during the day and have a life to live, it went slowly forward. After some time, with some tracks finished, I realized I had improved my chops so I went back to the first ones and refined them, often I even remade them from the ground up, sometimes ending up very different but still keeping the core "idea" and "feeling" of the former version. Continued with some more new tracks which led to improvements of my skills, only to end up feeling embarrassed about the older ones and remade them yet again. This turned into a loop for years (and is still somewhat in progress). Since more and more work became reworking and refining existing pieces the curiousity and adventurous spirit of the whole project faded. It got to the point where it wasn't even fun anymore and I started to spend less and less time with it.
Untill earlier this year, after I imposed some strong rules on myself, I decided to release the tracks as singles along with some new (and quickly written) bonus tracks instead of holding on to them them all untill the album is done. The bonus tracks would help get my creative spark back with some completely new music to write and give me one last "opportunity" to rework the "main" track.

I think it's pretty common for people to hold onto personal music because one feels it's "not ready yet" and some time later it feels to dated to release, so it just ends up not being released at all. Also, as people've mentioned, when working for a client the music HAS to be ready (often very soon) and gets you paid, so that takes priority. Even if you do library music without a deadline but want to make decent money from it you'll have to have crazy output, so that too takes priority over personal projects.

Even if you get very succesful and start to make more money than you ever thought, would you go: "finally, time to focus on personal stuff" and get to work in your one bedroom apartment with the same studio gear, ride your bicycle everywhere and order the cheapest beer you can at the pub or would you upgrade every faucet of your life you could? Most would do the latter, which in turn means higher costs and thus you'll have to keep focusing of getting paid. Ok, extreme example, you can do something in the middle but you get my point. And as people also have pointed out here, when clients like your services and pays you well, you feel validated and are more likely to keep serving them.

One last thing I haven't seen touched here yet; OP mentioned TB as one rare example and I think he in particular is in a very unique position.
First, he is annoyingly, almost offensively talented and second, he got started at just the "right" time.
I'm not a historian but I'm fairly certain there were less competition back then. Computers and software today are more powerful and affordable, and paired with high speed internet almost anyone can learn to make music and get it out there. Sure, there is more media in need of music today, but still more producers than the market needs and the royalties are lower, curtesies from the streaming services. Basically, today we're more people fighting over less money.
On top of that, TB not only made some serious bank, he also got well known. So he has a lot of people interested in hearing his personal stuff, something few media writers have. Even a lot of his stuff with TSFH, especially the latest years is not very "library-like" because he doesn't need to do that. He could do a 9 min folk-electro track and still get placements. I'm guessing now, but I believe most of his placements today come from people who know of him and his works. I wouldn't be suprised if many editors and media producers listen to his music on their own free time and when they're at work and in need of music, they already have a fitting track of his in their mind and just log in to extreme music and add to cart instead of wasting time browsing in different libraries.

That said, I don't think timing is the main reason for his success, that would be his obvious talent. Kind of ironic for someone to have a project called "Humanity" when he clearly can't be human.
But I think, if he started out today, he would make a good living but probably end up a bit less wealthy then currently.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Oct 28, 2022)

Galbaniél said:


> Even if you get very succesful and start to make more money than you ever thought, would you go: "finally, time to focus on personal stuff" and get to work in your one bedroom apartment with the same studio gear, ride your bicycle everywhere and order the cheapest beer you can at the pub or would you upgrade every faucet of your life you could? Most would do the latter, which in turn means higher costs and thus you'll have to keep focusing of getting paid. Ok, extreme example, you can do something in the middle but you get my point. And as people also have pointed out here, when clients like your services and pays you well, you feel validated and are more likely to keep serving them.


Interesting point about holding onto personal works indeed. That probably happens a lot... but I think as very skilled effective film composers which I'm mostly curious about they'd certainly eventually be able to finish even the most tricky personal work, even after many years than totally keeping it in...

I must say ... no the point I quoted escapes me. If you make a lot of money and do the middle way of living well but without emptying the bank it should be 100% possible to spend a good amount of time on personal work. It could be a matter of having some periods without commercial work for a few weeks or months or during less tight commercial work.
If you make as much money as some of the bigger film composers (hard to tell of course but I'm sure it's enough to live very well without paid work for some months) you'd have to have a super crazy livestyle to be unable to afford doing unpaid work. I'm doing some personal stuff here and there even though I make fairly little money mostly. But I'm also crazy so... 
It also doesn't stand in the way of doing work for clients. With enough income one has the liberty to do both.


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## Galbaniél (Oct 29, 2022)

Lionel Schmitt said:


> I must say ... no the point I quoted escapes me. If you make a lot of money and do the middle way of living well but without emptying the bank it should be 100% possible to spend a good amount of time on personal work. It could be a matter of having some periods without commercial work for a few weeks or months or during less tight commercial work.


I actually agree, I believe I would do something like that if I made a good living out of music, and it is a little sad not more successful composers do that. But I'm also notorious among my friends for living very cheap.

I'm just speculating now but it might be related to a "fear of missing out" and become irrelevant if one takes to much time of.
For example, I hear a lot of actors fear every movie they make will be their last so they take every gig they can, then if one movie becomes a hit they feel a need to keep striking while the iron is hot, so they still can't lean back and smell the roses.


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