# No interest in the screenwriter's strike?



## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2007)

lIs it "no interest" or do you feel it's not going to effect you so, "meh..."

I'm left wondering how long it's going to be. Seems like it's definitely going to happen. Kinda fucks a lotta things up, even indie (on the taste maker level).

I wonder haw many scripts will be turned in on the 31st that aren't ready? 

Gotta love how thew "producers" want the writer to take up the butt for their crap ideas (notes) that change perfectly interesting scripts into something anyone could have written (more specifically, something "they" could have written.) Then when the film tanks because it's the same piece of crap we've all already seen a hundred times by now, now they want the writer to take responsibility for that... because after all, they need to recoup $ before they can pay the writer.

The writer should get paid. They did the job, they wrote what they "asked" for, otherwise they wouldn't have made it. It's not the writers responsibility (morally/ethically) to be expected to take responsibility for "their" creative choices.

The "producers" are obviously in the game of "minimizing risk" (fairly apparent by the films that get made). The problem, though, is that it's unethical of them, IMO, to expect the writer to be held responsible in that case. UNLESS, the writer is able to, contractually, IGNORE the shitty notes and do what THEY feel is write. Oh and.. are allowed "directors cut" if they chose. Something tells me the "producers" wouldn't go for that. So we're left with the only thing fair, which is, the writer gets paid for what they "DID". Period. (Or, you know, maybe they'd rather give the writer some say so as to how it's marketed... and so forth.  )


KID


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## Daryl (Oct 27, 2007)

I can't believe that you used the word ethical. Are you living on the same planet as the rest of us? Since when has anything to do with big business, and particularly Hollywood, been ethical?

To me this is not a lot different from Directors asking for changes in the score, only to dump the composer when the film tanks with the test audience. However, I assume that in this case, providing that the contract has been signed, the composer gets paid.

D


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## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2007)

Ha ha!

Believe me, "ethical" isn't my word. What I'm referring to is the studios implying, although unspoken, that it's "ethical" for the writers to turn in drafts only if they are ready, and not just because they are wanting their check (you get two checks as a screenwriter, the commencement money, then the reminder once you turn in the script -- if people aren't ware). So yeah, that's where I get that word from...

IMO -- screenwriters should turn in whatever they have and call it done, so long as it's close enough. Then, once the strike is over, say... "you know what, I'll do some more work on it if you want." I mean, who knows how long the strike will last. Back during the 1988 strike, writers lost their homes and such. That one was 22 months. Ethical --- the studios have in the past months hoarded enough scripts so they'll be fine. Which means they really don't care if the writers' lose their homes. Otherwise they'd offer a reasonable "ethical" deal instead of this nonsense. Talking "fair"... that word Hollywood despises.

Getting paid -- No, you absolutely get paid as a screenwriter with the WGA. What I meant was not getting paid on DVD sales and all the "potential" internet earnings and such that the studios claim they'll never make any money off. The same way they pretend not to make any money of ANY film and therefore can't pay the writer bonuses due to it being a smash hit. It's pretty hilarious (in that ridiculously sad and pathetic way) the films they claim haven't made any money yet. We're talking smash hits that gross 4 times the budget no problem... and that's not including the DVD etc etc.



KID


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## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2007)

BTW -- how it directly effects me is that...

I'm playing the "trying to put my film together" game. I just got back from a surf-trip to Indonesia, living on a boat for 12 days sailing through the Mentawai islands (which was a fucking trip to say the least) because I planned this trip before this strike was looking like a real possibility. So basically I was in the position of not being abel to send out my script for a month because I wouldn't be around. Now that the strike is almost definite no one is looking at anything, it's not in anyone's best interest to send a script out currently. 

This first script is a fairly dark film that is 100% dependent on my take on directing it, which makes it a really tuff sell (since I'm attached as the director and composer, period. Otherwise, I'm fine tucking it away and never selling it). But it's slated to go out to independent producers who do those sorts of films. Taste makers in that realm. But everything is locked down now in the indie world as well, everyone is either shooting something or about to and not looking at anything new. Meanwhile all the name actors have their slots filled. So good luck for at least a few/several months. No script will be passed around for at least a few months.


So in the meantime I'm finishing up my "sell out" script. A warm/quirky comedy that my wife and I feel will grab people, because it's "good" not because I feel it's "selling out" a little. It's a high enough concept I can't say what it's about  . I say "sell out" only because I'm specifically writing it aimed at something I feel can be a "hit" and therefore make money -and- could go either way, independent or studio depending on who likes it. Where my first script is not a simple read, one has to pay attention, and they still might not like it even if they understand it, which I'm perfectly ok with. A simple script is way easier to get Hollywood to flip out over. Specifically one that almost anyone could direct since what it is on the page is exactly what it would be on screen, you aren't asking the the person reading/"judging" it (who, btw, isn't a writer) to be "creative" in that case (creative = directing it in their mind, even though they aren't a director nor a writer. Therefore dirt simple scripts that are well written sell). I didn't want to attempt something that easy my first time out... which is good for me, because now writing almost anything else feels easy-er.

So anyway... that's what my new one is. Dirt simple to understand. 

The problem is that now with the strike I have no clue how long I'm going to have to "sit on it" once it's done in a few weeks. Also, I gotta get the timing right once the strike is over. I just hope the strike doesn't last so long that I have to write something "else" after this one. Even though I already have a Character Driven Psychological Thriller started, several outlines for other film ideas, and a book I'm trying to make a deal on to option so I can adapt it. Writing on spec is lame in other words... I'm 99% sure this new script will sell, where the other one I went into it thinking it would probably never get made since it's so specific and not for sale. (but creating art is fucking risk, right (?) , and difficult... Targeting Hollywood is easy, IMO, so long as you know how to write well).

Anyway...


From my point of view the "potential" strike is F-ing up both studio and independent for who knows how long. Even if there's not a strike next week there will still be the residual gap. So I'm wondering if you guys are a bit worried at all how it may effect you. Who knows, maybe it's good for composers at the moment because there's a lot of stuff on the fast track maybe "because" of the strike. But it would seem there'd be a dip at some point. And/or, perhaps some of the folks you all tend to work with may have a hard time getting their film made until this blows over (unless their film is already "going", that is), even if it's independent, seeing as the taste makers deal with WGA writers.


Anyway... I have gnarly jet lag.


KID


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## VonRichter (Oct 27, 2007)

(apologies if this is totally off-topic, as I'm running on zero sleep for several days and I'm hallucinating)

I say, if needed, just ignore the entire system completely and make the movie yourself. Keep complete control, do it how you want, with your individual style and no one breathing down your neck. Borrow a good HD cam, keep your eye out for good actors/friends, modify the shoot approach if needed to capture good location sound, don't bother with big long setups, boom operators, complicated lighting, lens changes, and all that. Make the limitations advantages. 

Don't worry about the visuals aren't perfect... nobody really cares. But make sure the sound is professional and clear. Sound is the sole factor that makes the average person consider a film "professional". 

Just an idea, in case all else fails!

If you have the hookup for funding, go for it. If you have to sell off a "sacrifice script" to get your foot in a door, heck why not. There are countless examples of directors who sold off a script or two before getting the opportunity to direct themselves.

On the other hand, never, ever sell off your baby (pet project). Save your baby for yourself or you will never forgive yourself for letting it be tarnished by some wannabe hack.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 27, 2007)

Kid, note that this is the *Writers Guild,* not just screenwriters. My wife is WGA, but she does on-air promo; she'll have to strike if one is called, yet her branch is totally unaffected by these negotiations.

The internal politics of the WGA are also really convoluted, and this whole thing is a mess. You'd think that everyone would realize they're going to have to come to an agreement eventually, so they may as well do it before the entire industry shuts down and everyone loses lots of money.

But they're trying to bust part of the union - the news writers - so it's not straightforward.

I think Mayor Villaraigosa or Governor Blackeggs should step in.


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## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2007)

Nick -- You know, I hadn't actually thought of that issue. Thanks for pointing it out. Yeah it's pretty ridiculous all the way around. Especially considering that the members of the guild, in large part, aren't even working writers so what do they care how long it lasts. They're deciding what's what for so many of the hot young writers that generally have no clue what the guild is up to... maybe because they are continually writing.

Generally all the signed writers I speak with hardly know what's going on. Only that they must strike if it comes to that. They also don't really know what that "means." Far as what can they say/owe the studio once/if it happens... they've got plenty of questions. Surely the studios will try to get writers to turn in scripts after the strike... maybe calling the writer at home and so forth. Wouldn't put it past them.

But yeah, that's crap that your wife would have to strike too. What a mess. The Guild controls, like, 90% of the strike leverage, so it's pretty much entirely up to the guild. And they are militant "don't even write a check if we strike", kinda stuff...

"I think Mayor Villaraigosa or Governor Blackeggs should step in."

Yeah maybe so...

In the meantime I'm interested to see what goes down on or before Nov 1st. Word is that they're striking on the 31st.


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## kid-surf (Oct 27, 2007)

VonRichter--


Thanks for the thoughts... I sort of went OT talking about what I'm doing 'specifically' so, no worries. 

I agree that selling off my "baby" is an artistic sin. I value creativity far too much to do that. On the other hand, yes it's true, it's not much of a sacrifice to write something specifically aimed at garnering a 'hit'. Especially when on the page it will appear as though I took an creative-chance, even though I really didn't. (the psychology aspect is fairly large in H-town, although we never admit it to "them"). Not to say I feel the new one will make a crap movie, instead I feel people will like it plenty as it's got the mass appeal factor of a smaller film (which means it could sell to one of the mini-majors or to one of the taste makers in the independent world. Meanwhile those sorts of scripts, when excellent, create huge buzz in Hollywood, more than a big blockbuster type script. I just feel it's easier to write that sort of movie than one with such a huge arc (which is what my first script is). Fundamentally / psychologically you're asking less of the audience with a smaller arc, psychologically that's easier to swallow. Therefore it's easier to gain mass appeal... that thing that Hollywood equates with "good".

I agree with the "if all else fails just ignore the entire system". But only to a point. There are some films that can be shot on shoe string budgets with actors who aren't that seasoned and arrive at good enough for festival recognition. But this first script isn't that. It's heavily reliant on great, but subtle acting set against a somewhat expensive "looking" film. The film needs to have well constructed shots in order to work. Shots that aren't cheap necessarily. Shots that rely on an excellent DP and traditional methods, lighting, lenses etc.

examples: 

1) Napoleon Dynamite -- the look of the film isn't all that expensive. But it wasn't written to look any particular way.

2) Sin City -- was written to look a particular way and couldn't have been done with an HD cam and friend actors on a shoe string budget.

My film is nothing like sin city. Just that some films are heavily reliant on a stylistic directorial approach and can't be done for less money.


So the only way I'm interested is if I can get the budget close enough. Otherwise I'd be doing a hack job on "my own" film. And I don't see the point of that. Same way we can use cheap sounding samples in a film like Napoleon Dynamite, but not for a heavy drama like Ice Storm. Whatever the case, I feel it's best to aim at doing it right or simply not doing it.

With the first script I wrote something that was essentially painting myself into a corner budget-wise and was aware of it. But those are the types of risks I'm willing to take since it's 'free' to write a film intended to serve other purposes (my second script). Fortunately, most small comedy scripts aren't good. The reason in part is that they rely so heavily on fresh dialog which is the paramount function Hollywood is looking for in new screenwriters, and the function not many new writers are good at. But I digress.

Back to the point -- Doing this film on a shoestring budget isn't "how I want to do it". Regardless of the budget you have people breathing down your neck, unless you are literally shooting it on your own dime. A far better approach, IMO, is to go to the folks who make smaller films and have a track record of doing well with them. People that are essentially "in the game" and deal with all the Hollywood people. In this case we're mostly talking about producers from NYC. They are the ones who do all the good dark indie films in the few mil range... which is the absolute cheapest I could do mine for.

Selling out -- For me simply means writing something intended to be a hit. Little Ms Sunshine was, IMO, intended to be a hit. Where as Hard Candy, Kids, those sorts of films weren't. The tuff thing about my first one is that even though the scope is darker, it still needs to look expensive due to the construct of the storyline.


Visuals -- On this particular film are supremely important to me. Which is contingent on the shots and locations. Which is why the shooting-list is critical for this type of film. If I pitched to you the "look/shots" of the film and explained why it's so important for this particular film, and you'd read the script, I believe you'd understand why it can't be done any other way -- Then again I feel a shooting list is critical for any good film.


Although, I don't want to give the wrong impression. I have meetings with a few people who've read it that are pretty big (i.e. currently have big films out). But I've decided that this first script is probably better suited, even as a sample, for the bigger independent producers in NYC. Yet they too are effected by the strike. I decided that this new script is a safer bet to put into the studio system en masse. But I've hardly dipped my toe in, in either direction, with this first script. Only given it to one independent producer thus far. So this is all very early on. It's just that the strike is making it so that I'm forced to press pause just as I began to go out with it so why not write something else in the meantime. Which is probably for the best, in Hollywood anyway, to have a script that looks like a hit on the page. But the scary part is the thought of having so much time on my hands that I plain should finish my third script, and maybe even a fourth depending how long the strike is. The problem is that one can't flood the market and go out with all of them at once. 

Add that all signed writers are "told" by their agents and managers to write a spec in the meantime. So once the gates open one need be first in line. 

It's complicated enough trying to maneuver through Hollywood. This strike has only made it more complicated since everything is about timing and so forth. 



KID


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 27, 2007)

"they may as well do it before the entire industry shuts down and everyone loses lots of money"

I should add: and before they decide to torture the public with a bunch of reality programming...


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## Brian Ralston (Oct 27, 2007)

This WGA strike will be nothing compared to the SAG one that is due in June. 

ugh!


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## José Herring (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm not a big fan of unions or strikes but this may be a legit bargaining point. I mean media is changing rapidly and nobody is taking control of this thing.

Personally, most of my titles these days are going on DVD and now two times I've been asked to give up tracks for soundtracks that are bundled with the DVD. On one I'm suppose to get a cut of the DVD sales but on another I'm getting squat. Not to mention that we all don't get jack for DVD movie sales anyway.

I, quite frankly, I'm starting to enjoy most of my TV shows at my own leisure dl onto my desktop and played back over my computer. I'm even going so far as to build a dedicated computer just for TV,film and music and attach that to a flat screen bypassing have monthly cable bills and such.

The last movie I did the guy was all hot on a Netflix deal cause he could make big money. I'm like big friggin' deal I don't get squat for Netflix.

So everything is changing. Though I didn't believe it a few months ago I'm seriously starting to think that traditional broadcast cable and TV may be replaced or become drastically reduced.

So we're faced with a future where a large part of our market won't compensate for intellectual property. That's a huge deal imo. Sure you can over look it when DVD and videos were a fledgling market. Now DVD, netfilx, Itunes and many other internet services popping up make more money by double or triple the amount of advertising and BO revenue and yet we don't get squat.

So I hope that the writers strike at least opens up some control over the internet and video rentals so that it sets the ground for all of us to get paid more for our efforts.

Jose


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## kid-surf (Oct 29, 2007)

Brian Ralston @ Sat Oct 27 said:


> This WGA strike will be nothing compared to the SAG one that is due in June.
> 
> ugh!



Maybe. Interestingly, no one I know is really talking about the SAG strike. Who knows?

I just hope the Film Actors Guild doesn't strike (F.A.G) 


KID


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## kid-surf (Oct 29, 2007)

Jose -


I don't like strikes either. But I too feel it's a legit gripe. I mean this is a 20 year old contract. Stuff is changing daily. Eventually it's going to be a means of significant revenue. (all fancy studio accounting aside)

One problem the internet sales face is that we don't have fiber optic yet. But I really have no idea how this effects those forward thinking nations like Japan who is already on the road to having a country connected by fiber optic. Amazingly we still have dial up in the states even though we already paid the phone companies to have fiber optic (deregulations bullshit promises -- they took the money and ran leaving our country F'ed against Japan, and such, who are now kicking our ass).

I feel the WGA strike is going to hash a few things out and set the ground rules for everyone else. But I do wish composers had a union. I mean, if screenwriters didn't have a union they would be in the same position. Sure, it sucks striking when you are in the middle of stuff, but at least you've got a minimum fee. Period. Wouldn't it be nice to have a minimum fee as a composer? I suppose no one cares about all the new guys, but as a screenwriter you can make really good money as a band new dude with not one credit.


Aside from that -- I'm interested how this will effect TV composers. I know we've got a couple here but maybe they don't want to publicly share their feelings...


KID


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 29, 2007)

It's going to affect TV composers, housekeepers, gardeners, car salesmen, real estate brokers, music software developers, hotel workers, restaurants...

In yesterday's LA Times it said that the entertainment is 7% of the local economy. And the local economy is global these days, so it'll make a dent everywhere.

As I said, they're going to have to come to an agreement at some point, so better to do it without hurting everyone for years.


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## Brian Ralston (Oct 29, 2007)

kid-surf @ Mon Oct 29 said:


> Maybe. Interestingly, no one I know is really talking about the SAG strike. Who knows?



In the grand sceme of things, SAG is really the one that really stops everything when they stike. It is the one most producers are afraid of. SAG supports the WGA strike and will most likely picket with them, but when a SAG actor has to work, they have to leave the WGA picket lines and go to work. 

The industry can do quite a number of things to fill the gap during the writer's stike, depending on how long it goes. 1988 was 22 weeks. But, there are a lot of scripts already finished, a lot of good films in the can, on the shelf and ready for a release. And where one film might have gone to DVD before, it could get a theatrical chance if the strike goes on long enough. TV shows that might have been cancelled before will now just finish out their planned runs since those scripts are already bought and finished, etc... That type of thing. 

Also...a lot of spec scripts will be written during this time I am sure. And Hollywood can go outside the studio system on an unofficial basis to get stuff from outside hollywood. But, with a SAG stike next June, there will no actors to do anything...and that is what will really stop Hollywood dead in its tracks.


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## kid-surf (Oct 29, 2007)

I hear you... I know what the SAG strike is 'about', I meant that many people I know don't seem to be overly concerned about it right now. Meaning, it seems as though the agencies and so forth feel there won't be a strike come June. At least that's what I've heard... I don't speak for them.

Filling the gap -- yeah, there was/is the mad rush to complete scripts for the writers (so they can get paid), as well the studios want to get that stuff in. So it'll go all the way to the wire. In fact I was trying to get in before this all went down so I could do a studio writing gig but I ended up getting there just as the door was closing. My meetings got pushed back to December because everyone is shooting/developing and such. Everyone, getting smart advice, pulled their spec scripts at least a month ago.

I agree, many will write spec scripts. Aside from those writers that specifically say "I don't do that, give me something to adapt or don't call me" (the million dollar club). Officially no WGA writer is supposed to write "anything" (no specs either) during the strike. But the reality is that many will, many will even work on the scripts they get locked out of... they'll then wait a month after the strike to turn it in, stating "hey would you look at that, I _just_ finished it... imagine that".

I can't say I see them going outside the WGA to obtain scripts, though, even covertly. The WGA, I believe, threatened to bar any scab who writes for "The Producers" during the strike after the strike is over. Maybe there are new writers who'd take that chance? Otherwise, where would they go if agents and managers are out of the question for new material? No spec scripts will be going to the studios because of this. I can't imagine any 'good' agent sending anything out during this time. I would say it's probably locked up if they strike.

I suspect that enough of the scripts getting turned in this week, specifically Wednesday, aren't done. So they'll surely have enough scripts they aren't happy with... I'm sure they've got enough to put into production for a while to come, but I do feel they'll miss the "weeklies". 

What _will_ be getting reads are books. But again, they'll not have anyone to adapt them. To do a deal as a new screenwriter you need to join the WGA. Period. Don't know how the studios would get around that.

I have a feeling that since the strike seems to be happening now... (it was slated to happen in June along side SAG, as we may know, the WGA was going to hold off. The shitty proposal is probably what pissed them off enough to threaten it now.) ...I have a feeling that If the strike happens now they may not want to get hit back to back, but who knows?

At the very least this will cause a ripple that will trickle down to composers in some way. For example, a director developing their own films is basically locked down till this is over If they didn't get in before the strike -- there aren't any slots left, everyone has their films. If there are composers counting on that guy for their job it could substantially effect that composers income for the year.


I dunno. I just hope this year isn't a friggn disaster. This going way long then a strike in June.

KID


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## kid-surf (Oct 29, 2007)

BTW -- you get that gig?


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## Brian Ralston (Oct 30, 2007)

which are you referring to?


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## kid-surf (Oct 30, 2007)

Uhhh... I dunno? :D You mentioned being up for something like a month ago I believe.


Strike -- I don't feel the general public will even notice unless their favorite TV shows go into rerun mode in mid season leaving numerous unrelated audiences hanging. That would pisses people off big time. At that point the strike makes their local news -- the first time they're likely to even hear about it.


KID


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## Brian Ralston (Oct 30, 2007)

kid-surf @ Tue Oct 30 said:


> Uhhh... I dunno? :D You mentioned being up for something like a month ago I believe.
> 
> 
> Strike -- I don't feel the general public will even notice unless their favorite TV shows go into rerun mode in mid season leaving numerous unrelated audiences hanging. That would pisses people off big time. At that point the strike makes their local news -- the first time they're likely to even hear about it.
> ...



I started a Doc and then quit due to mostly communication problems and creative differences that I just could not deal with. My decision to step away from the project could not have been a better decision. I really should have seen the writing on the wall earlier since I was replacing someone who had similar issues. So now, I am just in between until the next feature which is due to start in the spring.


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## kid-surf (Oct 30, 2007)

I hear you... That's why I'm the frick outta there but for the people I've worked with, for now. I mean, I probably should have passed on M's gig once I saw no one would talk to me. I turned down a couple gigs this year due to a bad vibe... that feeling likeò¤   eÊS¤   eÊT¤   eÊU¤   eÊV¤   eÊW¤   eÊX¤   eÊY¤   eÊZ¤   eÊ[¤   eÊ\¤   eÊ]¤   eÊ^¤   eÊ_¤   eÊ`¤   eÊa¤   eÊb¤   eÊc¤   eÊd¤   eÊe¤   eÊf¤   eÊg¤   eÊh¥   eÊi¥   eÊj¥   eÊk¥   eÊl¥   eÊm¥   eÊn¥   eÊo¥   eÊp¥   eÊq¥   eÊr¥   eÊs¥   eÊt¥   eÊu¥   eÊv¥   eÊw¥   eÊx¥   eÊy¥   eÊz¥   eÊ{¥   eÊ|¥   eÊ}¥   eÊ~¥   eÊ¥   eÊ€¥   eÊ¥   eÊ‚¥   eÊƒ¥   eÊ„¥   eÊ…¥   eÊ†¥   eÊ‡¥   eÊˆ¥   eÊ‰¥   eÊŠ¥   eÊ‹¥   eÊŒ¥   eÊ¥   eÊŽ¥   eÊ¥   eÊ¦   eÊ‘¦   eÊ’¦   eÊ“¦   eÊ”¦   eÊ•¦   eÊ–¦   eÊ—¦   eÊ˜¦   eÊ™¦   eÊš¦   eÊ›¦   eÊœ¦   eÊ¦   eÊž¦   eÊŸ¦   eÊ ¦   eÊ¡¦   eÊ¢¦   eÊ£¦   eÊ¤¦   eÊ¥¦   eÊ¦¦   eÊ§¦   eÊ¨¦   eÊ©¦   eÊª¦   eÊ«¦   eÊ¬¦   eÊ­¦   eÊ®¦   eÊ¯¦   eÊ°¦   eÊ±¦   eÊ²¦   eÊ³¦   eÊ´¦   eÊµ¦   eÊ¶¦   eÊ·¦   eÊ¸¦   eÊ¹¦   eÊº¦   eÊ»¦   eÊ¼¦   eÊ½¦   eÊ¾¦   eÊ¿¦   eÊÀ¦   eÊÁ¦   eÊÂ              ò¦   eÊÄ¦   eÊÅ¦   eÊÆ¦   eÊÇ¦   eÊÈ¦   eÊÉ¦   eÊÊ¦   eÊË¦   eÊÌ¦   eÊÍ¦   eÊÎ¦   eÊÏ¦   eÊÐ¦   eÊÑ¦   eÊÒ¦   eÊÓ¦   eÊÔ¦   eÊÕ¦   eÊÖ¦   eÊ×¦   eÊØ¦   eÊÙ¦   eÊÚ¦   eÊÛ¦   eÊÜ¦   eÊÝ¦   eÊÞ¦   eÊß¦   eÊà¦   eÊá¦   eÊâ¦   eÊã¦   eÊä¦   eÊå¦   eÊæ¦   eÊç¦   eÊè¦   eÊé¦   eÊê¦   eÊë¦   eÊì¦   eÊí¦   eÊî¦   eÊï¦   eÊð¦   eÊñ¦   eÊò¦   eÊó¦   eÊô¦   eÊõ¦   eÊö¦   eÊ÷¦   eÊø¦   eÊù¦   eÊú¦   eÊû¦   eÊü¦   eÊý¦   eÊþ¦   eÊÿ¦   eË ¦   eË¦   eË§   eË§   eË§   eË§   eË§   eË§   eË§   eË	§   eË
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## choc0thrax (Oct 30, 2007)

I hope your idea is mainstream enough Kid. I'm already bitter after having an idea I thought was mainstream just wasn't commercial enough and tossed away. In light of this I have my pen out and will start sketching out ideas for a film about an underdog loser tennis player who must rise up the ranks and defeat the tennis champion- Damon Snively, who is a jerk and mistreats his sweet girlfriend who is the love interest of the main character. Will he get the girl and achieve glory???? Will Damon be humiliated in front of a live national audience?? I do know that at some point an animal of some sort will likely bite the protagonist's general crotch area...sixteen times.


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## choc0thrax (Oct 30, 2007)

Don't worry, the real idea I had centered around ping pong, not tennis...damn now you know that idea too. 

I think in the beginning you have to get ass raped creatively a bit until you have a solid foot in the door, then bring out the labor of love script you've had laying around for years.

I think Will Ferrell is old news sadly. You have to go with Steve Carell in a quirky "real" comedy. 

I wouldn't call myself a writer, just an idiot with connections and too much time on my hands. Hmm maybe I am a writer in that case.

P.S. speaking of Apatow I appear to have a bunch of "Undeclared" shooting drafts laying around the apartment, I should read them, I really liked "Knocked Up". Poor guy got his shows cancelled but now he's getting his due.


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## kid-surf (Oct 30, 2007)

Did I mention I've been working on an outline for a script called "Superbad-minton"? Crazy how when you're blessed by God, with talent, original ideas just come to you as if you hadn't even thought of it. It's exactly like your tennis movie only altogether different. I forgot to mention earlier that it's my next script... So, you can probably hold off on your tennis movie for now, otherwise I may have to unintentionally sue you. Thanks for doing the right thing..!

Yeah, I sorta went into writing the new one with my pants down around my ankles and my ass in the air just so that when the ass rape happens I'm, sort of, already totally comfortable in that position. Shows them, eh?

Yeah, Steve Carell is great for those. Wonder how the Dan in Real Life is going to do. Doesn't seem like the marketing was all the great. Kinda strange they wouldn't push it harder. Maybe that's as far as their penises would fit into his butt?

_"I wouldn't call myself a writer, just an idiot with connections and too much time on my hands. Hmm maybe I am a writer in that case."_

Yep. The other sign that you are destine for stardom as a writer is a passive aggressive hatred of yourself. Yet instead of the ritualistic cutting you decide you might as well assume the position then crank out a few pages and get to the cutting at more convenient time - Saran Wrap™ over the keys tends to make the Escape key stick anyway (I've heard). My bad... actually, no, that trait only applies to MOW writers and jovial comedians poised for a prime time family hour slot on ABC... So, ignore what I said. 

Yeah appears Apatow is getting his due now. He's pretty much THE MAN in comedy right now. Good for him.


KID


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## choc0thrax (Oct 30, 2007)

I think Dan in Real life will do a bit better than that piece of crap Heartbreak Kid with Ben Stiller. Although i've heard they blamed the bad box office for Heartbreak on the release of Halo 3. I don't think I laughed once while watching that film. 

One comedy to look out for: The Pineapple Express. Apparently it's looking pretty good.

Oh and OT but you remember a long time ago you said you'd buy the soundtrack to Edward Scissorhands after I said it was the greatest score ever composed? Did you ever buy it? 8)


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## Brian Ralston (Oct 30, 2007)

Not to derail the thread, but I saw an SCL screening of DAN IN REAL LIFE on Sunday evening and it is not really a comedy. At least not in the vein of the "R" rated comedies that are coming out now like 40-YEAR OLD VIRGIN, or SUPERBAD, etc...

It's more of a love story with some comedic situations. Carell plays a widower who finds love again. There are moments that make you laugh...but it's not nearly as funny as LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE...which also had its comedy and serious moments too.


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## kid-surf (Nov 1, 2007)

Choc0--


Yeah Heartbreak Kid looks pretty junky. I know of another film he may do that is MUCH better. A lot more fresh and interesting. Could it be a smash hit? Don't know, but I mostly care about good, well written movies taking a bit of a risk.

The Pineapple Express -- heard about it, don't know much about it. I'll check it out.

Edward Scissorhands -- Yeah, of course I remember that, I picked that up on iTunes, uhhhhh..... Today. I just ordered it today. I'm showing 2 tracks complete so far. :D

No, I meant to pick it up, thanks for the reminder.


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## kid-surf (Nov 1, 2007)

Oh shit... I think that's for the friggn Musical??????? :-(


Guess I gotta order it.


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## choc0thrax (Nov 1, 2007)

Which Ben Stiller film might that be? I'm looking forward to Tropic Thunder, i've been reading parts of it everytime I go to the laundromat. 

Is there an Edward Scissorhands musical? I know there's a ballet.


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## kid-surf (Nov 1, 2007)

Brian --


Thanks for the review. Although, you left one thing out. "Did you like it?" :D

But yeah, I feel the comedies that are the smartest are those with moments of poignancy. It's a really fine line to make the whole thing work. Hollywood generally tries to do the watered down (severely watered down) version of adding poignancy to comedies. It's always some sort of stapled in ridiculousness that lasts all of one minute thirty on screen, then we're right back into someone slipping on a banana peel. That sort of writing doesn't grip me.

...Ever notice how strictly those sorts of comedies fallow "The Writer's Journey". It's hard for me to even watch those sorts of films without punching myself in the head hopping for, at minimum, a TKO. "Ok, we're here in the 2nd act, this is where the wife leaves the FUNNY GUY, "but wait, she just doesn't understand! Don't leave!!!" Is what we're supposed to think. Then when she realizes, later, he _had_ to sacrifice his family duties to save the town from certain, trivial, destruction she returns with tears of sappy-warm-joy that never quite spill down her cheek yet glisten just enough to warm our hearts. The townsmen hoist "our guy" to their shoulders and off they go parading through the town streets, because this unassuming reluctant man (Hero) has taught them all something so very valuable about life, regardless of the fact that's it's completely obvious to anyone older than a tween... The wife holds the tear, just so, as they trail off down the road with "her man". WE PAN to the kids who look as though they've finally accepted their father for who he is... This is also the first moment, by the way, that the angst ridden, yet studio lovable, kids are scripted to smile a real smile. The daughter, who is older, then slaps her younger brother for stepping on her "trendy sneakers" (product placement) just before they go completely out of frame (because we need to staple in a "very clever" joke right about now, and why not sell sneakers at the same time -- it's a comedy, remember?). FOCUS IN ON bystanders who begin to slowly clap, in that way we've seen in several sports related films about that "underdog" who saves the schools reputation while stealing/earning the hottest girl on earth away from the hottest guy on earth because that's what makes perfect sense. So anyway... the townsmen finally arrive at the stage and hoist "our guy" onto it. Yes "coincidentally" there was a town fair happening which is somewhat convenient considering this is the 3rd act and we need the "our guy" to deliver a monolog into a microphone... which is, by the way, spurred on by a frenetic crowd chanting "Speech.. Speech". Our guy reluctantly takes to the mic and speaks his first words as though he's suddenly become shy, for no reason at all. Ok fine, perhaps it's due to the mic feedback™, that would startle anyone, as it is so very unexpected in a film like this. Just then he spots his wife who gives him that "Honey, I believe in you" look, WE PAN to his kids who give the thumbs up (literally). He resumes, gaining politician like momentum by the end, and delivers the most heart warming words this world has heard since the last movie with the exact same storyline. The wife then runs to the stage, and finally the kids (group hug)... this is when we know everything is not only back to normal, it's better!!! He's inadvertently fixed his family by saving the town. Who would have thought, right?! Nothing left to do but DISSOLVE TO the family the following day enjoying each other's company the way only a studio-film-family can. Just when we think everything is cool we add one more clever joke which alerts us to the fact that "our guy" may not be totally out of the woods, which comes as a TOTAL SURPRISE to the audience and receives a response of "Oh brother... that was hilarious! I can't wait to see what happens in SILLY DAD II." Our audience knows our movies is over so all that's left to do to close this piece'a shit is roll those fucking credits and let's get the fuck outta here... we made our money. It's another great day in Hollywood!!! Next...


Yeah, fucking hate those type of films... :D But no, my comedy script isn't cynical, I just feel those films are that ridiculous. 

LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE and so forth. Those are the comedies I prefer, totally. Something that is funny but move you in some real and unexpected way... they don't make the most money but the people who wrote them are way hotter as a newer screenwriter for a reason. Then again, they are so inexpensive they make good money, when done well. Thank god there are movies like that. Thank god it's about more than just butts in seats to some writers / producers / directors etc. 


KID


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## kid-surf (Nov 1, 2007)

choc0thrax @ Thu Nov 01 said:


> Which Ben Stiller film might that be? I'm looking forward to Tropic Thunder, i've been reading parts of it everytime I go to the laundromat.
> 
> Is there an Edward Scissorhands musical? I know there's a ballet.



Maybe it's music from the Ballet?

I can't say what film it is. It's not announced yet. Not sure even if he's 'totally' committed to it unofficially, but he should, it's good. Thing about him is he's a bit "concerned" about people knowing what he's attached to. Can't say I blame him. So, whatever IMDB says is probably not accurate. As with so many other things. Which, btw, there's a lot of stuff announced and so forth on IMDB that is inaccurate. Things people pulled out of a long time ago...


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## choc0thrax (Nov 1, 2007)

Yeah IMDB is kinda lame. They don't even have Tom Cruise listed as being on Tropic Thunder but he is...

It probably is the music from the ballet.


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## synthetic (Nov 1, 2007)

If the writers are on strike, who will write the Tila Tequila reality show!? I need to know who wins the next challenge. 

Or X-Men 6, I really want to see that too. Or some other comic book guy that shoots things with his eyes and stuff. 

(I think the writers went on strike a long time ago and we're just finding out about it.)


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## kid-surf (Nov 1, 2007)

I think you meant the producers and studios... Writers have to make the dumb changes they tell them too. Studio assignment writers (which is most writers at a big agency) don't have the power to veto dumb ideas. Unfortunately many good scripts get ruined that way. Not that all their ideas are dumb, but enough of them...

Every writer I know (signed, big agency) has a script no one will make because it's "too risky" (which often means "This one is actually really good"). Or maybe someone is willing to make it if they take all the "risk" out of it. It's a catch 22. In the meantime the writer says "Fine, fuck it, I'll write your stupid movie for ya", then they write the films they want to write on spec... and sometimes try to direct them. A very prominent screenwriter just directed a film that, to me, was a bit of a nose up to his very "successful" franchise series. He probably would never admit it in public, but I bet he was thinking "THIS is how you write a good film in that vein, notice it's like all those films you had me doing only this one is actually smartly written. I always _could_ write like this you just wouldn't let me... but man does this feel good." That's what he's probably thinking, or saying to his closest friends. Otherwise he'd not have written it on spec, he'd have sold it as a pitch. He wanted to control it which meant direct it too. IMO it's written WAY smarter...

I don't know much about Reality TV writers, they... aren't real writers are they? :-D


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## synthetic (Nov 1, 2007)

Yeah, I was just tweaking you because you're a writer. I can see it didn't work though.  You put 10 guys in a room to pick a color and end up with beige. 

I have a friend of a friend who's a writer for the lonelygirl14 YouTube thing. I'm sure her parents are proud.


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## kid-surf (Nov 1, 2007)

I hear ya... 8)


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## Frederick Russ (Feb 3, 2008)

Insiders say there is a breakthrough in Striking Writers talks:

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=4233522 (http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wir ... id=4233522)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 3, 2008)

Let's hope it's over.


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## Brian Ralston (Feb 3, 2008)

Nikki Fink (who is usually right)...reported this evening that Peter Chernan of FOX flew over to Phoenix (from WGA negotiations in L.A.) just in time for the Super Bowl and was telling everyone he saw up near his booth that the strike was over. Just settled. Some of those hearing Peter talk immediately went texting and forwarded the info to Nikki Finke.


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## Brian Ralston (Feb 3, 2008)

But we will probably go through it all again in a couple months when SAG will most likely strike over their contract terms. They are now asking for more than the writer's were initially asking for...including higher DVD residuals...which is one major issue that broke down the WGA negotiations late last fall.


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## kid-surf (Feb 4, 2008)

I'm not convinced it's over... I mean, I hope it is, but I'm definitely not convinced. I will be thrilled if we hear tomorrow afternoon that "officially" --> "Yes, it's over!!!".

But I feel like it's getting way too much press for being only a rumor at this point. I heard, yesterday, through a writer friend, that a certain agency (not where my wife is) was already calling clients telling them that the strike was over. I don't get it, neither of the negotiating comities have said it's over, so as far as I'm concerned it's not over yet. Nikki Finke, far as I remember, predicted it would be over weeks (months?) ago. And yet, nobody can ever reveal their "insider source". I'm a bit skeptical at this point.


All I gotta say about the possibility of a SAG strike is... Don't have a film going in June...


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## Bruce Richardson (Feb 4, 2008)

Oh, I can answer this question easy. Follow the leak source.

It's the producers "leaking." So, it's a pressure tactic. 

"It's over," says the producer.

"Wait," says the writer, "What about X, Y, and Z that we left on the table at that meeting. It's not over. We said we'd talk about those things on Monday."

"You gotta be fucking kidding me," says the producer, "We sat there and agreed. We agreed."

"We agreed to meet," says the writer.

Condense it to a news story, and you get the writers balking when they said they "agreed."

Point goes to producers.

Politics.

The writers are playing it too, with the indie producers and the separate production houses like Letterman's. They make a side agreement, and say, "Look at those balky Hollywood producers. We got it worked out with all these people, what's wrong with them?"

My personal belief, of course, is that the writers should get what they want and more, since it is chump change. As creators, we all should hopefully be behind the writers. As it goes for them, eventually it will go for us.

Frankly, they should get the animated and reality clauses, too. Those shows are just as "written," even more so than some. It's very disingenuous to say that a reality show isn't scripted, or to somehow say the person doing that scripting is not a "writer," but some kind of "producer" or "designer."

This is _all_ about producers trying to cut creators out of the profit structure.


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## John DeBorde (Feb 4, 2008)

Bruce Richardson @ Mon Feb 04 said:


> This is _all_ about producers trying to cut creators out of the profit structure.



And when you say "producers", don't you actually mean the corporate entities that own the studios? It's my understanding that's who the "producers" are, not the people you see listed in the credits as producers.

It's all about the mega-conglomerations squeezing for an ever larger piece of the pie. 

At least that's what one writer told me, tho perhaps his view is skewed.


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## Brian Ralston (Feb 4, 2008)

John DeBorde @ Mon Feb 04 said:


> And when you say "producers", don't you actually mean the corporate entities that own the studios? It's my understanding that's who the "producers" are, not the people you see listed in the credits as producers.
> 
> It's all about the mega-conglomerations squeezing for an ever larger piece of the pie.
> 
> At least that's what one writer told me, tho perhaps his view is skewed.



That is exactly correct. The AMPTP is incorrectly named really. The producers in the PGA are not the same people as the AMPTP, the producers referred to in this strike...which are the media conglomerates, networks, etc...


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## John DeBorde (Feb 4, 2008)

Brian Ralston @ Mon Feb 04 said:


> John DeBorde @ Mon Feb 04 said:
> 
> 
> > And when you say "producers", don't you actually mean the corporate entities that own the studios? It's my understanding that's who the "producers" are, not the people you see listed in the credits as producers.
> ...



That's what I thought. So the AMPTP is really using a little slight of hand to disguise who they are, as they realize very few will sympathize with a bunch of giant corporations pushing around a few puny writers. Acting like they are "the producers" makes it sound more like it's an internal H'wood struggle, and it's easy to convince the populace at large to shrug off the vagaries of "those hollywood types".

hmmph.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 4, 2008)

I still hope it's true. Not only are a lot of people out of work, it could hasten the demise of TV as a medium.

Some people would say that's a good thing, of course, but there's some good programming too.


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## kid-surf (Feb 4, 2008)

I agree, as much as we all complain about how crap TV is "now a days", we all know too many people employed by it. As well, I actually watch some of those crap shows. 

Btw -- all someone complaining about TV proves to me is that they are "also" watching. How else would they know to complain?


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## Bruce Richardson (Feb 4, 2008)

Per the clarification of Producers, yes...That's what I meant, the corporate interests, not the actual boots on the ground producers that are very understanding and supportive of the writers' back-end concerns.

As in...getting some back end of the financial kind, rather than the....


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 4, 2008)

"Btw -- all someone complaining about TV proves to me is that they are "also" watching. How else would they know to complain?"'

Good point!

But you only have to flip channels in passing to know that reality TV as a medium looks a lot like the end civilization.


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## kid-surf (Feb 6, 2008)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Feb 04 said:


> "Btw -- all someone complaining about TV proves to me is that they are "also" watching. How else would they know to complain?"'
> 
> Good point!
> 
> But you only have to flip channels in passing to know that reality TV as a medium looks a lot like the end civilization.




I guess it only takes seconds to realize how crap many of those shows are... I stand corrected. :D

But, do NOT mess with my American Idol, Big Brother or.... Oh, that's it. :D


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## kid-surf (Feb 6, 2008)

Ok... see. Now today I _do_ feel like the rumors are true. :D Where does Nikki Finke get her info?

I heard some "supposedly" insider stuff the other day, but I never believe it no matter who it's from until it's fact.

The fact that the WGA sent the e-mail to WGA writers is a clear sign they are on the verge of a deal. Could all fall apart if someone sneezes wrong... but I'll give in and buy my champagne and even unwrap it, with hops of popping the cork soon.

Now I _really_ feel like I need to wrap this agent thing up... anyone wanna represent me? Or do I seem like the client from hell? :D

I did decide on a lawyer today. He's a pretty top dude around town (reps two of my favorite screenwriters JUNO/Little Miss Sunshine... bunch or directors and actors). So that's one thing outta the way, seems like a real good dude. I'm not interested in having a manager tho. Why have 3 people collectively taking about 25% off the top. What the heck does a manager even do... besides hold your hand? :D I'd rather just have one smart person to find me work, then another smart person to get the most money possible. Don't see where managers fit into that equation... even if they're smart... I don't need help on my scripts. That's what the producers and execs are for (to ruin what was once a good film)  So what else do they do?

So many people have agent + manager + lawyer now a days. I don't get it. Not unless you're a top dude and have that much going on.


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## midphase (Feb 6, 2008)

Hmmm...I have a manager and I find her to be way more useful than what agents do.

She essentially goes through all of the industry leads, calls them on my behalf, sets up appointments and gets me in the door. When we go to social events (like Sundance stuff) she's the one who's running around the room to make contacts and introduce me around. Way more than any agent has ever done for me or for my colleagues (unless you're a top dog....but in that case you don't really need much help to find work).

A good manager believes in you and strategizes your career in a long term way.

I find agents to be the useless ones!


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## kid-surf (Feb 6, 2008)

I think it's a flip scenario of roles for screenwriter -vs- composer representation.

In the screenwriting world the agent does the finding of jobs, setting of meetings and so forth. I agree with you about the role of agent for the film composer. In fact, I met with a couple composing agents last year. One said to me "I really only want clients that have studio credits and/or huge buzz from some indie film that's blow'n up... it's almost impossible to break someone who doesn't have either of those. And if they do have either of those I don't even need to hear their music. Nor does the studio much of the time. In fact, some studio people don't bother to listen to the music, they just assume the guy is good based on the credits... That's the first and sometimes ONLY thing they look at [who else's film has he done], they don't necessarily care what the music IS, they just want to know the composer didn't ruin the film. They need someone else to trust you first." That's what I was told by a fairly successful composer agent... (who shall remain nameless -- but this is stuff we already knew)

This was right about the time in the meeting I had my epiphany to write.

Another composing agent, at a boutique agency, was willing to hip-pocket me but flat out said "You still gotta find your own jobs... I can put you up for stuff bigger composers pass on, but that's it. If you get a job on your own though, I will make the deal for you. But no, I wouldn't wait by the phone for me to call you"

Yeah, composer agents, to me, seem pretty useless. Maybe someone else has had a better experience.

But screenwriter agents are a whole different ball game. You don't need studio credits and they actually work to put 'you' to work.

Like an agent is to composers, I don't get what a manager is good for in the screenwriting world. Unless you don't have an agent... seeing as it's generally easier to get a manager. Especially one that's not very important "out there".

I dunno... It seems like some people just like having a large posse. Seems like a waste of money to me. Or maybe I'm missing something?

Anyway, glad your manager is actually doing work!


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## kid-surf (Feb 12, 2008)

*“The strike is over. Our membership has voted, and writers can go back to work,” said Patric M. Verrone..*

THE END


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## Brian Ralston (Feb 13, 2008)

Déjà Vue. And it begins again.

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/a-list-actors-pressure-sag-to-start-talks/


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## kid-surf (Feb 13, 2008)

I hear you, but I wouldn't say "all" begins again, I would say "somewhat" begins again... 

I don't feel people will be willing to fight over so little to gain, but who friggn knows?

An aside -- I do find it amusing that all the "gains" made don't effect the top players one bit. They make deals outside of the norm anyway. That's what their agents/lawyers do, negotiate far past what everyone else gets. Must be nice... (so long as you're not an actor, who the hell would WANT to be famous?)


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