# V S L



## novaburst (Dec 27, 2015)

V S L any one !!! am i missing something as I read in a post it does not seem to be the topic of the day, or talked about a lot here on this forum.

Maybe have not found the thread but at least I would have expected it to come up more than often in the type of post I have been reading.

So the comment was that V S L does not seem to have a fair mention on this forum,

1:Your thoughts,

2:Do you use it

3:Do you feel there is a need for it above other librarys

4:Has it been humbled by the seemingly great work other developer are doing.

5:Is it your go to orchestra

6:has it been forgotten here

7:has it been over shadowed by over developers

8: can the world do with out V S L, is there a great need for V S L, are people turning and looking over the fence.

9: do you find it to pricey, if so is it worth the price compared to..........

So why has it not been mentioned in some of the most resent orchestra discussions

In the last few weeks,


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 27, 2015)

They should record more libraries with absurd section sizes and really promising names. Also make more once-in-a-lifetime "no brainer" deals. A famous testimonial that swears into the camera could also help. A revolution or the dawn of a new age is also the least you should promise if you really want to be the talk of the day.


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 27, 2015)

Lemme just brainstorm here for a second and say this: There are 3 kinds of libraries: 
Fisher Price Libraries: the libraries that sound awful, no matter what you do, and they're functionally no better than general MIDI. They sound like they're coming from a plastic saxophone.
Professional: The libraries that sound great, and, when in the hands of a professional, will result in a product that is very close to a real orchestra.
Sublime: the newer libraries which are recorded in very realistic ways, and, when in the hands of a professional, will be virtually indistinguishable from a live orchestra.

Most of VSL is in the "Professional" category, but their Dimension libraries are in the Sublime category.

1. It's awesome. 2. Yes, all the time. 3. Yes, it's very easy to get your workflow set up to your personal needs. 4. Yes, but not in terms of functionality and performing with it. Their scope is huge and all-inclusive. 5. For most things, yes. 6. No, it's just not shiny and new anymore, and everybody probably already has it. 7. Is that the same question as #4? It hasn't, because the functionality of their player is seemingly untouchable. 8. There is still a need. 9. Yeah, it's really pricey, but that's our world. I bought some 25% off vouchers last year and just sat on them until they had another sale, which allowed me to buy their collections for somewhere between 50-60% off. Took a lot of planning, but it worked. It's modular, so you can buy a library at a time. 

People don't talk about it because (I'm guessing) most people already have it, and it's not shiny and new anymore.


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## novaburst (Dec 27, 2015)

@Prockamanisc thanks for using numbers, I do believe the advantage with V S L is there server and the fact you can use your own plugins on each track, giving very low to zero cpu usage.

@Jimmy Hellfire thanks for answering thread.

I think as J H said they need to do some no brainier sales, to start the fire again, but its nice to see it still play an important part in some productions.

Lost its shine Hmmmm well maybe not sure, look at east west still a well talked about orchestra, I mean Q L Gold how long has that been around.

I would of thought the library we are using the most or the library that means a lot to us (V S L) would be some how pushed into a lot of library threads I see other library but V S L seems to be absent.


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## jason.d (Dec 27, 2015)

I have a lot of VSL libraries. Dimension strings and brass, and the special editions. I think part of why it isn't talked about as much around here is maybe a combination of its age, price, needing e-licenser dongle, and not sounding ready to go out of the box.

I love VSL because of how customizable it is to setup patches and switch between them. So robust with loads of features. Seriously, go check out their VI pro videos. Being able to customize switching patches between speed, velocities, cross fading between any patches, customize any CC controllers of your choice, or even a combination of these settings. Then being able to turn on and off certain round robins, being able to randomize slight pitch changes between notes...it's an incredible player. My favorite one actually. The samples themselves are very clean as well.

Here's what I don't like about VSL-
The sound is roomless/spaceless. So it's super robust to play very fast passages, but that authentic sound of a room or hall has to be created with plugins. I've spent lots of time making these instruments sound like they're in a hall, and I've had some pretty good results...but then compare it with a recording of an orchestra or even a wet sample library, it just doesn't sound the same, you can just tell.


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## marclawsonmusic (Dec 27, 2015)

VSL is still top-notch stuff!


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## novaburst (Dec 27, 2015)

jason.d said:


> I love VSL because of how customizable it is to setup patches and switch between them. So robust with loads of features. Seriously, go check out their VI pro videos. Being able to customize switching patches between speed, velocities, cross fading between any patches, customize any CC controllers of your choice, or even a combination of these settings. Then being able to turn on and off certain round robins, being able to randomize slight pitch changes between notes...it's an incredible player. My favorite one actually. The samples themselves are very clean as well.



And thats just it other library's seem to be getting a load of credit and talked about because of what they can do even i my self included,

With all these combination of setting, it just seems V S L is the one and that brings a thought to me, if I had a nice collection of horns, winds, percussion, strings of V S L would there be any reason for me to buy another orchestra software, seeing that any other orchestras software would be perhaps stepping back words.

@jason.d now I know why those strings can sound a little untamed but it still his wow factor


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## tack (Dec 27, 2015)

This may seem petty, but the USB dongle is the single reason I've not bought any VSL stuff.


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## jason.d (Dec 27, 2015)

It definitely still has a wow factor. 

About needing another lib, I would say if you're looking for that natural roomy sound, get a wet library and VSL would be a great compliment. If I had to do a really fast passage with tons of spiccatos and staccatos, creating my own runs- I would layer VSL with a wet lib to get the sharp intricate detail from VSL, and the authentic roomy, spatial sounds from the wet library.


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## novaburst (Dec 27, 2015)

Ha ha I remember I was trying to get the cheapest possible bundle from V S L and every time I went to check out the price would jump about 20 euros and I realized a dongle was added automatically to the price. 

But deleted dongle from price because I use cubase and some other stienberg stuff so I added license to existing dongle


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## novaburst (Dec 27, 2015)

@jason.d I use V S L in a similar way, I find my self going to other librarys even for sustains and layering them with V S L .


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 27, 2015)

What I was getting at with my tongue-in-cheek comment is that marketing obviously plays a big role. VSL are kind of doing their own thing. They labor on stuff for a long time and then they put it up on their website and that's that. The people who follow what they do are aware of it, but all the rest, perhaps not as much.

I have no inside perspective on the company or anything, but they seem rather busy and to me it appears that they have their clientele and are doing quite well.

I think people are always looking at different options, new colors and flavors, new equipment, etc. It's part of being a passionate musician as well as being a professional musician. It's crazy what abundance of great tools we have at our disposal today, and it's awesome. They all have their place and uses. I'm sure that the outside world could go without VSL, but in the _sampling world _they're certainly one of the essential major players . They're meticulous and forward-thinking and have a pioneering spirit. That's important for the industry as a whole.

I love the VSL software, especially the VI Pro player. The whole concept of it and its features. Kontakt, to me, feels like a children's toy in comparison. And I seem to naturally gravitate to the way their instruments sound - they have a timeless quality, in the sense that they simply sound like I imagine the instruments in my head. Very "pure" and essential. Not overdressed, not tailored to a certain aesthetic or application - just the way it is. That's perhaps a bit unexciting to some, but it resonates with me and the way I "think" music while writing.

What also makes them important to me is the fact that they inhibit my creativity the least. When working with samples exclusively, there's a certain need and tendency to "write to the samples" - you kind of tend to censor your ideas a bit and not do things that are difficult to program with samples convincingly. With VSL, I feel the least constricted, because there's something about the way they're edited, scripted and how they respond to tweaking that often makes me able to pull off parts where I'd tear my hair out with some other libraries and give up.

All in all it's just such a complete package - the software, the sound, workability, versatility, wealth of articulations ... it's clever, it's super-low on ressources, never screws up or pisses me off. It's the sum of things, it all plays a role. It's just so well-rounded. VSL products are absolute workhorses, and that in many ways makes them the backbone of my template.

I'm aware that the dryness is something that puts some people off. I do appreciate ambient libraries and like to use them. But I use other dry stuff too, not just VSL. To be honest, the whole dry or wet thing ... I don't care all that much. If the baked-in ambience does what I need at a particular moment, great. If not, I'll use my plug-ins and put something together. I also layer stuff all the time.

A musical sounding performance will always be more important to me than the sound. If the music sounds good overall, the listener will never start to think about "realism" or how good or bad the "room" sounds or whatever. They won't have a reason to. As long as the ambience sounds _good_, I claim that it's not that important how "real" it sounds. A piece with hyper-realistic sounding ambience but poor performance programming will make a worse impression than a mockup with convincing musicality but fake ambience (as long as the ambience fits and isn't obviously screwed up). Nobody A/B's recordings with mockups except for guys who make the music.


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## novaburst (Dec 27, 2015)

even I am beginning to like V S L more now infact I already had my eyes on my next orchestra, now I am leaning towards V S L , I would agree that V S L have played major roll in the virtual music world, some times its easy to forget just why certain developers stand out and what they have to offer,

the question should be how can you not like V S L , I feel weather people can afford it or not it some how has found its way on there work station


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 27, 2015)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> What also makes them important to me is the fact that they inhibit my creativity the least. When working with samples exclusively, there's a certain need and tendency to "write to the samples" - you kind of tend to censor your ideas a bit and not do things that are difficult to program with samples convincingly. With VSL, I feel the least constricted


Yes!


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## Dr.Quest (Dec 27, 2015)

Listen to any of Guy Bacos demos. I've bought more then one based on those wonderful sounding demos. Love the company, the library and the instrument that plays them all. The VSL player is one of the best ever designed. Solid and solid. You can do anything with the sounds because they are reasonably close mic-ed. Love the fact you can buy almost any instrument you want. Love the winds.


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## novaburst (Dec 28, 2015)

@Dr.Quest yes I love the fact you can by parts of V S L too and not faced with a huge purchase bill haha but maybe worth the investment.

I think one of my problems with V S L is the fact you will need to spend again of nearly the same price for some articulations for library you just purchased so lets say Dimension for instance , at one price, then for Dimension 2 for the same price, but just for different play styles but no instruments

Has any one found a work around for that do you just settle for the standard articulations, the extra cost just dont seem right but maybe im missing something


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## Dr.Quest (Dec 28, 2015)

I've bought when they have had some great sales. Buy 2 get one for free or cheap. Something like that.


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## Steve Martin (Dec 28, 2015)

Hi there everyone,

If you have not tried out vsl - you can now access it online to try out the samples via their Audition Credit.
You can test drive VSL from this page:

http://www.vsl.co.at/en/Instruments/Audition_Credit

best,

Steve


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## leon chevalier (Dec 28, 2015)

Another VSL lover! 
To me VI Pro is far away beyond other sample players. A least for my needs. Maybe they could really improve their popularity if they could open their player to third party developers. Like NI did.


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## novaburst (Dec 28, 2015)

I just have the standard ensemble, I know the Pro has an overwhelming amount of features, I am trying to figure out if it is used to manipulate the playability of articulations in the library,

I found my purchase of V S L came with 7 basic articulations that is ok to some degree, I know as I have said before that there are more playable articulation on offer to purchase, but I am quite sure some of the more experienced users
of V S L have found ways to supplement this either by 3rd party articulation or otherwise the use of V P or midi.
or perhaps you would go ahead and purchase another bunch of articulations to compliment the basic ones. 

I know a full package of some sort would probably come with a full set of articulations, but I know purchasing a standard library the (cheaper option) would mead only basic articulations, what do you guys do to supplement this or is it a secret which is understandable


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 28, 2015)

The standard libraries are generally "bread and butter" and contain everything that's more or less essential. I don't think you always really need to own the extended libs to get things done. Depends on the music. A lot of sample library users out there would do just fine with the standards - or the Special Editions, for that matter.

The extended ones add detail, even more authenticity and quality of life. For example, I find myself using the dynamic patches a lot. When I didn't have the extended libraries of some instruments, I spent far more time drawing and perfecting modwheel curves for crescendos and diminuendos, whereas now I might just use one of the pfp patches and not have to do anything to it at all. The one-directional dynamic patches I have set up so that they're triggered by key velocity. If I play softly, they're crescendo, and if I hit the keys stronger, they're automatically diminuendo. It's just a great time saver.

Same goes for repetitions: with the standard editions - and a lot of libraries from other companies - you pick whatever short note patch you have, enter a succession of notes and then fumble around with their velocity, durations, alignment around the grid of the MIDI editor etc., until you get something that sounds like a repeated stroke, a triple-tongue or whatever. It works OK, but it takes time. The repetition patches in the ext. libs are a shortcut. And it actually sounds more authentic.

One can of course sit there and enter their own woodwind clusters. But having a patch that contains actual recordings of it just saves a lot of time, sounds more real and just lets you move on to the next thing and get stuff done.

A lot of times, the VI Pro player is helpful to fake your way around special articulations you don't have at your disposal. Like loading an fp in one cell slot, a sfz or stacc in another (and tame that one a little), and a sus in a third, but increase the delay slider for that one a bit. Then you just need to automate the tail of it with velocity XF and you get something like those expressive notes where you have a forced attack before the note quickly dies down but then comes back in roaring in a crescendo. The player is cleverly designed, it offers tons of possibilities to get creative with it. Slot crossfade can be very useful - for example for letting your string players seamlessly shift from a normal sustain bowing to tremolo. All that kind of stuff.

I guess that's part of the answer to your question: if you don't have a pre-recorded articulation, you put in a little more editing effort and simulate it in the piano roll, or you come up with some clever idea to utilize the capabilities of the VI Pro player. But of course, some things just can't really be simulated well. Glissandi, grace notes, special effects, etc. But the great thing is exactly that the extended libraries are separate. I still only have the standard versions of some of the libs, because I wasn't in the situation yet where I really really needed something that's in the extended portion. That's the great thing. You can go with standard and save some cash and can still upgrade at a later time if you need to.


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## Vlzmusic (Dec 28, 2015)

If you ask me, one of the major things I love about VSL, is the fact that they sampled transitions plus the forthcoming note - which eliminates the dreadful crossfade that each legato transition has to make to sustain (btw there are leg-sus patches too I`ve never used, because they sound obviously inferior). This strategy shine through some of their best individual instruments - Trumpet Bb, French Oboe, the flutes, and many others. What`s more, I have read that each VSL instrument means a great deal of commitment for the player who is being hired, as its being recorded over significant period of time, with articulations even being rehearsed etc.

Now, probably the major thing I dislike, its the sound engineering. Many people refer it as "dryness", but I would disagree - there are tons of fine examples with "in your face" studio sound being warm and attractive. Its the frequencies, the overall color etc. MIR gives the sound some "wow" effect, which relates to realistic spatialization, which in turn makes those good legatos sound even more real - but it does not cure the frequencies. Realistic and beautiful are not the same.


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## novaburst (Dec 29, 2015)

Thanks for that guys @Jimmy Hellfire, @Vlzmusic needed to hear that as I do struggle when purchasing from V S L I mean I all ways go for the library,vs the extended, but the side effect is as Jimmy Hellfire explained is time consumption in trying to create an articulation that is not included in the library

If I it to clear to the ear that it articulation is not working I usually hide the sound mixed up with other instruments
But I am starting to believe that maybe buying the extended or at least some could be the correct choice as I would spend quite a bit of time trying to make some thing sound right, and for that moment it does but later on or the next day it sounds bad,


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