# Working as an Arranger for Musical Theatre



## trumpoz (Jan 21, 2012)

Hi Everyone,

I've been approached to be the arranger/orchestrator for a musical. The writers are 'known' in the industry with previous works being published/performed professionally. I'll be arranging/orchestrating original music and also writhing the underscore/scene change music etc. 

Discussions are about to start regarding payment - hell this is potentially my first professional arranging/orchestrating gig so I'm somewhat unsure of what is fair/standard etc. What is the norm for musical theatre? Is it solely a straigtht fee for arranging/orchestrating, or are performance royalties usually part of the deal and if so, what percentage? I'm at a bit of a loss here, having never done this before. 

I'm going to be contacting other musicians/PRO's locally, but any guidance on what the 'norm' might be would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks in advance

Trumpoz.


----------



## José Herring (Jan 21, 2012)

Go to your union. They're uniquely suited to this kind of work. Arranging, Orchestration is pretty standard and has a set rate per page. Composing underscore is another matter entirely and you may want to just treat it as another arrangement, because you stand a better chance of getting paid for it. Or you may want to treat it as a separate deal.

Another thing is to ask for credit. Arrangers and Orchestrators in musical theater get billing. It's a big, big job and is a major part of the production. If it's anything like a traditional musical you'll basically be taking the songs plunked out on the piano by the "composer" and turning them into a seamless show from beginning to end.


----------



## trumpoz (Jan 21, 2012)

josejherring @ Sat Jan 21 said:


> Go to your union. They're uniquely suited to this kind of work. Arranging, Orchestration is pretty standard and has a set rate per page. Composing underscore is another matter entirely and you may want to just treat it as another arrangement, because you stand a better chance of getting paid for it. Or you may want to treat it as a separate deal.
> 
> Another thing is to ask for credit. Arrangers and Orchestrators in musical theater get billing. It's a big, big job and is a major part of the production. If it's anything like a traditional musical you'll basically be taking the songs plunked out on the piano by the "composer" and turning them into a seamless show from beginning to end.



Thanks Jose - the Union is on my list to contact. Getting credit is a given with these guys. In terms of the songs plunked out on piano - you are definately right there but we will see how it goes :-D


----------



## José Herring (Jan 21, 2012)

Best of luck to you. I've played in a few Broadway and off Broadway musicals and in my heart of hearts I've always loved that work. Though being the serious classical guy I was back then, I never could admit it. I've often thought about taking it to the next level and doing what you're doing. It would be a lot of work but well worth it.


----------



## wst3 (Jan 21, 2012)

I am very green with envy! If I could choose one area to work in it would be live theatre. There is something very magical - no two nights are the same!

Good luck, and enjoy!


----------



## musikmik (Jan 21, 2012)

Hey! I am an MD in NY, have orchestrated an Off-B'way show that got a cast recording, and just got done with a new show which premiered in CA orchestrated by a tony award winning orchestrator. I am no expert in this area, but I can at least give you a few things to ask about that I hadn't thought about until the situation came up. 

There may be exceptions if you are one of the top orchestrators, but from what I understand you basically get paid outright for your work-royalties are only involved in a few situations. There are specific orchestration rates listed with the union which list amounts per measure and for how many lines (instruments) you are writing for. For example, I think the union rate is just under $30 for every four measures of music you orchestrate up to 10 instruments, and then every line above the ten is an extra amount. On top of this, you should get a royalty for a "first rate production" meaning if the show plays on Broadway or possibly does a national tour. (There are so many levels of touring these days, some union, some a reduced union contract, and some non-union - I'm not sure how that part works for each of these levels of touring.) 

There should also be a royalty if an official cast recording is made, although whether this is an upfront flat amount or a percentage on the CD's profits may vary. In the show I just did in CA, we discussed making a cast recording, and if we had I know the orchestrator would have received a specific union rate per hour of recording (I think the same as the musicians with a premium added) for the recording session, and then anything beyond that as far as a royalty or percentage of the CD's profits would have been a separate discussion. (Most cast recordings never sell enough copies to make a profit. But then there's Wicked!) One area I don't know about is if a company like MTI or Samuel French are used to rent out the show to regional theaters if you get a buyout amount, a royalty whenever the show is rented, or nothing at all because you have been paid for the work. 

I have no idea if you are in a situation where you are going through the union and will be using the official rates. They are fairly pricey, and unless a show is of the caliber to be directly on track for Broadway the rates may not be practical. In the show I did as well as the show I worked on in CA, a lot of "arranging" was involved in the orchestration. This arranging was not a separate fee - it was considered part of the orchestration work. On top of this I'll also mention that as far as the union is concerned orchestrating has nothing to do with the physical transcription of the music into Finale or Sibelius, so if you are doing the transcription work for the show you should consider that when making a quote. My best advice is make sure what you are getting up front makes the project worth your time, because there is no guarantee the show will ever go on to make you a royalty. Hope that helps-good luck!

Michael


----------



## trumpoz (Jan 21, 2012)

@wst3 - thanks man. To be honest this is all a little scary. I've worked in Amature theatre all my life and have done some professional pit-orchestra work (depping for Jersey Boys), also exciting as well.

@musikmik - thankyou for the detailed response. I've found orchestration rates, and they a little more than I expected. The prospect of the show not actually generating anything $ wise is a bit of a sobering thought but we all live in hope hehe. I will see how negotiations go.

Thanks again for your responses.

Richard


----------



## musikmik (Jan 21, 2012)

I didn't mean to be a buzzkill!  Often times great shows don't make any money and bad shows last for years. It is so unpredictable - which is why I mentioned making sure the upfront pay is worth the work. Hope for the best, but prep for the worst.

If a show is a success and catches on, then even if the initial investment isn't made back in the commercial run, it might be made back in tours and regional productions. But you would be surprised the shows which ran for years and toured and are done regionally which never made back their money. And as far as recordings, Broadway and Off-Broadway cast recordings tend to either go gangbusters (Wicked, Rent, anything Disney) or never come close to making a profit. They are a project that allows some part of a show to be permanently preserved, and to publicize the show so it might be performed more frequently. I know a producer of many Broadway and Off-B'way cast recordings, and the profits of the few help allow them to record many others which will never come close to making a cent. 

All of this being said, there is nothing like hearing your charts and arrangements being played by a band and moving a show along, especially on your first show. (Don't plan to do much the weeks they are putting the show together for first time or two - if they are doing it right there are likely to be TONS of changes.) Again, good luck!


----------



## Pochflyboy (Jan 23, 2012)

I started out as an orchestrator for a large international military show, moved to composing for it and am now the producer for the annual two night show. I tell you this not to boost my story but to show that one small step leads to new opportunities. The actual value of this is not what you get paid for the work for what you do but you are willing to give to them.. at least that is how they will see it. Go into it with that in the forefront and you will go in not only providing the best for them but them giving you the best they have to give.

*"People won't care what you know until they know how much you care"*

Hope this little bit helps more practically on how to go into this thing. Its always worked well for me and I hope it does for you also.

Joe


----------

