# Which brass is biggest?



## Lord Daknight (Nov 28, 2021)

I've watched Alex Moukala's tutorials and If you have too then you'll know how much he loves Metropolis Ark 1, I'm pretty much convinced that I want this because I want to make hugely epic orchestral stuff. However I noticed that people don't seem to talk about Ark that much, it's all about the Cinematic Studio and Junkie XL Brass and Spitfire Brass.
I'm not asking which is the best all rounder, I want to know if Metropolis Ark really is the _biggest_ and most epic sounding brass.


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## KEM (Nov 28, 2021)

Haven’t checked out Forzo but given Heavyocity’s aesthetic and track record I have no doubt it’s great. Personally I will always rave about JXL Brass, very full dynamic range, easy to program, and the SINE player is awesome to work with


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## Scalms (Nov 28, 2021)

CSB combined with Forzo is verrrry epic. I have JXL and I think CSB/Forzo combo wins out


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## Christoph Pawlowski (Nov 29, 2021)

If you wand to get wild and epic, go for ark 1. The brass cuts through a mix like a hot blade through butter. Unbeatable, if you ask me but it just can't go really soft (There's ark 2 for that) and it only has bass trombones instead of regular tenor-ones.


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## ScarletJerry (Nov 29, 2021)

Spitfire Originals Epic Brass and Woodwinds is $29 and very loud. Listen to their demo and judge for yourself.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 29, 2021)

Lord Daknight said:


> I want to know if Metropolis Ark really is the _biggest_ and most epic sounding brass.


Possibly, but I use Performance Samples Angry Brass when I need BIG epic brass.


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## pranic (Dec 1, 2021)

My new go-to for epic brass is Jaeger and Talos from Audio Imperia, though before I obtained that library, I would often layer some BBCSO and 8DIO Majestica and maybe some Abbey Road One to get a bigger sound. Then again, I don't usually write super epic stuff.


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## BenG (Dec 1, 2021)

I think Forzo and Angry Brass are the two biggest as they were designed with that trailer music sound in mind. I also layer with Cinebrass Core/Pro all the time. 

Here’s a little low brass demo I created for another VIC member…


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 1, 2021)

BenG said:


> I think Forzo and Angry Brass are the two biggest as they were designed with that trailer music sound in mind. I also layer with Cinebrass Core/Pro all the time.
> 
> Here’s a little low brass demo I created for another VIC member…


Is that just Forzo and Angry Brass, or is Cinebrass in there as well?


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## Crossroads (Dec 1, 2021)

Nothing's bigger than Majestica when it comes to brass. Combine with 66 trombones and 66 tubas.

Also, Native Instruments Symphony Series brass.

Both created for larger than life arrangements.


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## OHjorth (Dec 1, 2021)

Depends on what sound you are after. Ark 1 low brass has a big natural sound which I find suitable for epic fantasy but if I was going for a modern trailer sound for contemporary action movies or sci-fi there are other options. I would catch the audio imperia bundle in that case with Jaeger, Talos and Cerberus for less $ than Ark1.


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## BenG (Dec 1, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Is that just Forzo and Angry Brass, or is Cinebrass in there as well?


That’s actually just Angry Brass + Cinebrass. AB is doing the heavy lifting though…


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## BrekQuest (Dec 1, 2021)

Had the same dilemma, and landed on CineBrass Pro. Monster Brass and 12 horns patches are massive. JXL is top of the bill big brass imho, but it’s expensive as hell!


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## Crowe (Dec 1, 2021)

Hahaha, this topic is epic in and of itself. This really isn't going to help the OP.

Yet to add to the chaos, I'm going to push another vote towards Metropolis Ark.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 1, 2021)

Lord Daknight said:


> I've watched Alex Moukala's tutorials and If you have too then you'll know how much he loves Metropolis Ark 1, I'm pretty much convinced that I want this because I want to make hugely epic orchestral stuff. However I noticed that people don't seem to talk about Ark that much, it's all about the Cinematic Studio and Junkie XL Brass and Spitfire Brass.
> I'm not asking which is the best all rounder, I want to know if Metropolis Ark really is the _biggest_ and most epic sounding brass.


I don't think big (as in section size) is the right term for what you're describing. Guy Michelmore talked about this in detail on one of his videos where there is a point of diminishing returns with section size and all that starts to happen as you add more players is an increased mushiness in the attacks, so the perceived power is actually lower.

Big as in volume doesn't matter in a DAW because you can boost the gain of a solo trumpet to be as loud or louder than a 3 trumpet ensemble. It won't make the solo trumpet sound bigger, just louder.

If you're looking for the most _powerful_ brass, it is a combination of section size, the room/recording setup, player technique used during the recording session and any processing applied by the library developer. My guess is you want punchy attacks, window rattling cuivre (the raspy rattle) and lots of low-mid body when things get high in dynamics.

As a fellow fan of huge, bombastic brass sounds, I can give you the guidance below on libraries I own or have heard extensively.

The most powerful/epic brass (in no particular order):

Audio Imperia Nucleus/Jaeger/Talos (all the same samples) - Recorded in a studio in Hungary. Very dry, very punchy, very in your face. Trombones lose a bit of body in the upper dynamics, but the low brass ensembles bring the thunder from down under from pp-ff.
Cinebrass Core/Pro - SONY scoring stage sound with fantastic engineering. Shorts are hit and miss, but the monster low brass is *chefs kiss* for power. If you like the sound of loud Hollywood-style brass, this will do it. Current UI isn't super easy to work with and pricing is a bit absurd (in my opinion)
JXL/TH Brass - very expensive, but checks all the boxes. Recorded at Teldex and is pretty wet with baked in reverb.
Metropolis Arks - also expensive, but checks all the boxes. Also recorded at Teldex and is pretty wet with baked in reverb.
Infinite Brass - semi-modeled approach composed of individual instruments. Goes from ppp-fff in dynamics and can sound as massive as you want it to. Multiple IR selections for studio to concert hall style sound. Plenty of low-end, punch and maybe more cuivre than most can handle in the highest dynamics. Tone isn't for everyone and it does have a high learning curve to make the most of it.
Hollywood Orchestra Brass - gets you that instant Hollywood brass sound (as expected) with plenty of punch and power. Only criticism from me is the low brass is a little lacking in the low end due to the room it was recorded in. The new Opus edition might address this, but I do not own it.


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## juliandoe (Dec 1, 2021)

Which brass is biggest? The Tuba. You're welcome.


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## Zanshin (Dec 1, 2021)

@Trash Panda cover the options pretty well, although I'd add Synchron Brass to that list too. Forzo has been mentioned but I would only get that for the hybrid stuff and as a supplement to something else.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 1, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> @Trash Panda cover the options pretty well, although I'd add Synchron Brass to that list too. Forzo has been mentioned but I would only get that for the hybrid stuff and as a supplement to something else.


Thanks. I haven’t followed VSL since I’m not ok with dongle-based DRM. 

I left Forzo out intentionally because it lacks the same punch, power and low end as the others. The staccatos on the low brass is especially weak. Like Century Brass wet fart weak.


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## Zanshin (Dec 1, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Thanks. I haven’t followed VSL since I’m not ok with dongle-based DRM.
> 
> I left Forzo out intentionally because it lacks the same punch, power and low end as the others. The staccatos on the low brass is especially weak. Like Century Brass wet fart weak.


I get it.

Agree 100% about Forzo, even though the hybrid side is soooooooooo sweet


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## Trash Panda (Dec 1, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I get it.
> 
> Agree 100% about Forzo, even though the hybrid side is soooooooooo sweet


Oh for sure, the hybrid sound design is fantastic! 

The trumpets, horns and low brass not short arts are all good (not great, but good) but those low brass short articulations would ruin a take that requires punch on your shorts. They're BBCSO weak.


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## David Kudell (Dec 1, 2021)

Ok to answer the original question, Ark 1 is loud, but the newer JXL is significantly louder. However, the Ark 9 horn patch patch has special articulations that the JXL ones don’t.


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## Shrednut (Jan 14, 2022)

Just to add another option, Spitfire Albion III Iceni has huge farty brass. But it is very wet sounding. 

Also a big fan of Forzo and I don’t own it but JXL sounds amazing.


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## from_theashes (Jan 14, 2022)

„Biggest“ and „epic“ are just pretty subjective terms. Do you have any examples?
For me: EW Hollywood Brass has just THE Hollywood/Trailer-Sound:


Is it the loudest/biggest/most epic? I don’t know… but it just sounds damn good!


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## Serg Halen (Jan 14, 2022)

Cinebrass PRO+Metropolis Ark 1+Metropolis Ark 3 - this is my go to setup for epic brass. The truth is you need to combine different libraries to get badass sounding brass, or strings, or whatever.


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## Consona (Jan 14, 2022)




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## Lord Daknight (Jan 14, 2022)

Consona said:


>


If only they sampled this... I know that there's a library for an Octobass so not impossible


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## Soundbed (Jan 14, 2022)

I’ve got a few brass comparison videos on my YouTube if you’re interested. 






Here’s one with an emphasis on a “trailer” type sound …


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