# Opinions on new PC (Gaming + Music perhaps) PROBLEMS :(



## Tatu (Sep 5, 2016)

Hi,

I started to consider a new gaming PC, since I have some extra cash to spare, and thought about something like this:

Processor: Intel Core i7-6700K, 4.0GHz
MOBO: Intel Z170 based
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080, 8Gt GDDR5X
RAM: 64Gb (4 x 16Gb) DDR4 2666MHz (that's all she'll take).
Lots of SSD's.

Now, since there's quite a lot of horse power there, how would you Windows/PC people judge those from a VI-composers perspective? I added 64Gb of RAM just in case this could be used as a DAW (Cubase) as well, what do you think?


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## Tysmall (Sep 5, 2016)

I have a 4790k and still have to bounce out tracks when my template gets overwhelming. Maybe shoot for 32gb of ram and the 5930k if you are looking for a more balanced system in terms of audio production. Game wise you'll run 3 of any game you want at the same time maxed setting with no problem with that set up. if it were strictly games i'd actually save the money and go for an overclocked i5 as most games can't utilize the 8 threads efficiently in a 6700k, even less with the 5930, but it's certainly nice to have


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## Tatu (Sep 5, 2016)

Yeah gaming wise this might even be a bit of an overkill to my needs, though I'm looking forward to games such as Star Citizen, which looks incredible with GTX1080/4K. My current gaming PC has i5 and GTX 660Ti which is quite good, but doesn't do that well with ultra-graphics.

I don't what's the difference between all these i7 versions  Too complicated for old mac user.


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## tack (Sep 5, 2016)

Tatu said:


> Now, since there's quite a lot of horse power there, how would you Windows/PC people judge those from a VI-composers perspective? I added 64Gb of RAM just in case this could be used as a DAW (Cubase) as well, what do you think?


That's pretty much what I use as a dual function DAW and gaming PC, except I have a 980 Ti. It works quite well for both -- as you said, that's quite a lot of horsepower, and also the 6700K is nicely overclockable.


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## lucky909091 (Sep 5, 2016)

The maximum RAM of this processor is 64 GB.
You spared some money?
Think about the future of VST-instruments....

I would like to recommend you the Intel Core i7-5960X 8x 3,0 GHz for less money or the Intel Xeon E5-2680V3 12x 2,5 GHz if you have some more money.
I would rig both of them with 128 GB of RAM, if I had the money.
This is really seminal.

O.K., Tatu, - the Xenon costs about 2.000 Dollars, but you said, you have spared some momey.

Both are known as very stable systems for audio applications and video applications, too.


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## tack (Sep 5, 2016)

But now that's not nearly as capable a gaming machine, is it, as you've taken a serious hit on your single core performance.

A gaming rig can be perfectly suited for DAW work, but if you want to build the biggest, baddest DAW, you will probably find it's not so great a gaming system.

In my case, I use the disabled track approach, enabling only what I need when I need it, and 64GB has been quite comfortable for me. I'd be curious to hear if anyone has felt hamstrung on 64GB using a template with the disabled track approach.


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## Mystic (Sep 5, 2016)

I'll start by saying if you can, keep your gaming/personal computer separate from your music computer. The more you use a personal computer for things other than music, the more it bogs the system down because of all the crap you have running in the background from other non-music related programs.

There is a huge ongoing debate about i5 vs i7 when it comes to gaming. It's true that most games don't really use hyperthreading (and the ones that do don't do it well) so you can likely save some money from the start by going with an i5 and not lose any power. Especially since the i5 has shown to have higher benchmarks than the i7 anyway.

64GB of RAM for gaming is hugely overkill. Studio, sure. Gaming, not so much. At the moment, 16GB is more than enough for pretty much every game. Star Citizen... well, time will tell. They need to work on better optimization on that anyway. I'd recommend getting a board that you can add on to over time and starting with 16, then wait for a really good sale to jump it up if you need to. No sense spending $100 more for nothing if you're not going to need it. Right now I'm running 32 in mine (since I cycle my studio computers to be my personal computers when I upgrade) and I have yet to come even remotely close to maxing out my RAM usage.


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## Zhao Shen (Sep 5, 2016)

tack said:


> But now that's not nearly as capable a gaming machine, is it, as you've taken a serious hit on your single core performance.
> 
> A gaming rig can be perfectly suited for DAW work, but if you want to build the biggest, baddest DAW, you will probably find it's not so great a gaming system.
> 
> In my case, I use the disabled track approach, enabling only what I need when I need it, and 64GB has been quite comfortable for me. I'd be curious to hear if anyone has felt hamstrung on 64GB using a template with the disabled track approach.


Well... it's an unbalanced tradeoff. Gaming doesn't require much processing power at all compared to most other resource-intensive activities. That being said, getting some 2.0 GHz Xeon processor probably isn't advisable.


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## tack (Sep 5, 2016)

Zhao Shen said:


> Well... it's an unbalanced tradeoff. Gaming doesn't require much processing power at all compared to most other resource-intensive activities.


Well, you say that, but it's not as if I don't see at least one core being pegged during some games. And some games do distribute quite nicely across all 8 logical CPUs on my 6700K. For example GTAV, which also will periodically bottom out at least one of those logical CPUs.

But sure, you could get away with an i5 for gaming. The 6700K provides the extra headroom for DAW work, especially for RT performance given its overclockability.

My point is that the 6700K with 64GB is a fine configuration for the dual purpose of gaming _and _DAW work, which is what Tatu was asking about.


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## tack (Sep 5, 2016)

Just to underline my point, here's a graph taken from Windows' task manager while driving around the city in GTA V. It's hard to argue that my overclocked 6700K is going unused.

Sure, not all games will be this demanding, but my argument is that it's not entirely wasted on gaming, and that it also makes a fine DAW CPU given its superior RT performance.


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## Tatu (Sep 5, 2016)

Some valid points both lucky and tack.
I'm currently running a late 2009 mac pro with a 2.66GHz quad-core xeon / 16Gb's of RAM and it's been enough for me as far as processing goes (RAM not so much), so I figured it can't be less than that with a fresh quad-core i7. (I know, mac vs. pc, but it's also 2009 vs. 2016).



Mystic said:


> I'll start by saying if you can, keep your gaming/personal computer separate from your music computer. The more you use a personal computer for things other than music, the more it bogs the system down because of all the crap you have running in the background from other non-music related programs.



I plan to install two separate setups within that system; one for gaming with its dedicated drives and OS and one for music with its dedicated drives and OS to avoid that.



Mystic said:


> 64GB of RAM for gaming is hugely overkill


But it's never an overkill for music use 

And again, hyperthreading may not be the biggest thing with games, but it makes sense for music work..

Don't you guys see what's going on here.. I'm going mac+logic to win+cubase


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## JohnG (Sep 5, 2016)

tack said:


> My point is that the 6700K with 64GB is a fine configuration for the dual purpose of gaming _and _DAW work, which is what Tatu was asking about.



A CPU of 4.x and 64 GB of RAM are actually starting to look routine in music, from what I'm seeing. Definitely not overkill if that's your main DAW (or even for a slave).


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## rgames (Sep 5, 2016)

6700k + 64 GB is a great machine. I recently got two for slaves and I haven't seen anything that performs better for DAW use. I wouldn't do 32 GB for a DAW unless it's a master with slaves - 64 GB is the sweet spot these days. 128 GB is, as far as I can tell, useless because you'll run into other bottlenecks long before you can make use of 128 GB. Also, RAM speed doesn't matter so buy whatever is cheapest.

The 6700k is quickly becoming one of those "classic" Intel chips that really sets the performance bar for its time. For DAW use I would definitely pick it over anything else unless you're really CPU limited (not ASIO limited).

I don't play games but I've seen plenty of benchmark sites that show the same gaming performance across a *very* broad range of CPUs. So my guess is that CPU power is not a factor.

rgames


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## Tatu (Sep 5, 2016)

Thank you Richard. I've read your comments on PC-specs quite often and have a strong feeling that you know what you're talking about, so I'm encouraged to move on. And thank you Tack for your comment based on personal experience on a similar system with similar usage. And so far thanks to anyone who's commented 

@tack what size of a template / track count are you typically running, when you need to disable/freeze?


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## tack (Sep 6, 2016)

Tatu said:


> @tack what size of a template / track count are you typically running, when you need to disable/freeze?


It's not large, less than 200 tracks. It's not so much that I feel the need to disable/freeze because of high track counts, but just because it's expedient. I don't use VEP, so when I load projects, I only need to wait for what I'm using to load. And with this model, I don't really fret about memory usage when adding something new to the template. I just add the track, configure it, disable it and move on.


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## kitekrazy (Sep 6, 2016)

Tatu said:


> Hi,
> 
> I started to consider a new gaming PC, since I have some extra cash to spare, and thought about something like this:
> 
> ...



Get a 650W power supply. It's nice to have some headroom with those beefy video cards.


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## URL (Sep 7, 2016)

This config looks cool


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## Tatu (Sep 7, 2016)

kitekrazy said:


> Get a 650W power supply.


I ordered a 600W - It's supposed to be enough, because the configuration is based on a gaming system - but we'll see 



tack said:


> It's not large, less than 200 tracks. It's not so much that I feel the need to disable/freeze because of high track counts, but just because it's expedient. I don't use VEP, so when I load projects, I only need to wait for what I'm using to load. And with this model, I don't really fret about memory usage when adding something new to the template. I just add the track, configure it, disable it and move on.



Well I currently use a modular approach to my template, though I do have one that's about 130 tracks with a selection of winds, brass, perc and strings. And with my current system, I am no stranger to freezing tracks and often do it just to have some headroom when moving on.

OT question: Is the only way to purchase Cubase Pro as download by purchasing Elements version first?


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## tack (Sep 7, 2016)

Tatu said:


> I ordered a 600W - It's supposed to be enough, because the configuration is based on a gaming system - but we'll see


I use a 550 and my 980 Ti is even more power hungry than the 1080, so I've no doubt you'll be fine.


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## nbd (Sep 8, 2016)

How about considering such hardware that would suit for hackintosh purposes? Skylakes have been running El Capitan successfully for a while now, at least for some hardware.


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## Tatu (Sep 8, 2016)

nbd said:


> How about considering such hardware that would suit for hackintosh purposes? Skylakes have been running El Capitan successfully for a while now, at least for some hardware.


I don't do hacks with working systems (except at my day-job). When moving to another "base", better do it all the way; that makes future less risky with the tools and lets you focus on work.


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## Tatu (Sep 21, 2016)

The day has arrived, ladies and gentlemen.

I just received my new PC yesterday (and a sleek 4K display) and although there are still some problems to solve [like actually managing to install another windows on this damn thing, because I wasn't (didn't dare to go too far) able to disable secure boot from BIOS in order to being able to boot from USB..] and new SSDs to install, _*I'm all set to go all Cubase*_.

Thanks for all the helpful pointers to all of you.

PS: Damn.. games look good on this


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## URL (Sep 21, 2016)

Tatu said:


> The day has arrived, ladies and gentlemen.
> 
> I just received my new PC yesterday (and a sleek 4K display) and although there are still some problems to solve [like actually managing to install another windows on this damn thing, because I wasn't (didn't dare to go too far) able to disable secure boot from BIOS in order to being able to boot from USB..] and new SSDs to install, _*I'm all set to go all Cubase*_.
> 
> ...




When you are a up and running your machine please give us a post how much different new pc is against your old Mac Pro Q 266 I alson have Mac Pro Q 266 and need a new daw computer, I would really appreciate it
Im in Cubase nowadays so Pc is a alternative
I did a Pc part picker on the net. My last computer...


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## Tatu (Sep 27, 2016)

URL said:


> I would really appreciate it


OK, I haven't managed to get to serious stress-tests yet, but I did "import" one project from Logic to Cubase and quickly tested how my new systems handles it.

To put it short; Extremely well.

Here's a longer ramble:
I exported a projects MIDI from Logic (not more than 35-40 tracks) and imported it in to a template I'm working on in Cubase (with practically same set up as the one that I have in Logic; about 130 tracks - full orchestra). Most notable thing is that with my new system, I can play it through with no itches at all starting with a fully purged (kontakt) template, whereas my mac always struggles with those and usually ends up giving a system overload error.

That particular project has some built ups during which my mac always freezes, but on my PC it all plays smooth even with a larger load of microphone positions (Especially Mural and BML Brass have been hard for my mac). At those peaks Cubase is using about 30-35% of the processing power at hand, so I'd say it's a step up from my old system. Huge voice count is just too much for my old Mac Pro.

So far I'm satisfied and my only gripes come from trying to get over the fact that Logic just is a bit more logical and handy app when it comes to accessing your signal chain and all the vital stuff per track (just my opinion and who knows, maybe I just haven't figured all the things out in Cubase yet.. after all I've only used it for few days :D )


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## URL (Sep 27, 2016)

Tatu said:


> OK, I haven't managed to get to serious stress-tests yet, but I did "import" one project from Logic to Cubase and quickly tested how my new systems handles it.
> 
> To put it short; Extremely well.
> 
> ...



It really is a great improvement, it is clear that a lot has happened on the processor / motherboard since 2009/10 when the Mac Pro Q 266 was released, a lot of programs use more and more video card dsp although there will be improvements.
My Mac Pro is fighting every time, it is difficult to make a good mix of large template when the computer is not really cope. Old computer is perfekt for Mac/PC slave set up. I will change my daw setup and goto Pc/Cubase.

Thanks for the feedback - and good luck with your new computer.


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## Tatu (Sep 27, 2016)

URL said:


> Thanks for the feedback - and good luck with your new computer.


Thanks!

I think it's good to mention, that on my test Cubase was using about 11Gb's of RAM.. barely scratched the surface.


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## URL (Sep 27, 2016)

Tatu said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I think it's good to mention, that on my test Cubase was using about 11Gb's of RAM.. barely scratched the surface.



Oh that I really like, RAM is always a balance as we know with CPU usage so... I think go for 64 RAM to many sample lib.../Thanks for your answer.


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## chimuelo (Sep 27, 2016)

I just built one specifically for DAW / UDH & 4k Gaming.

Used a Lian Li C60B
1 x Plextor 512GB NVMe M.2
4 x Samsung Pro 850s / 512GB
32GBs DDR4-2400 CAS 11
ASRock Z170 Extreme 7+ w/ i7 6700k
XFX RX480 8GB GDDR5

Here it is working like a Champ as I prepare it for a new home in my Man Cave.

2 x large 140mm intake fans and CPU fans are quiet and the 140mm outake fan keeps air crossing the motherboard and the new Plextor M.2s.

The Samsung UHD screen was reasonably priced at 700 bucks and is 55".

Knowing nothing about gaming, etc. my son advised me on a Video Card with enough power to run demanding 4k games.
1080p cards are 3 times the price of the AMD XFX RX.
It cost 259 USD @ Newegg.


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## Tatu (Oct 2, 2016)

Aaaand... problems.

After stuffing my new PC with SSD's and getting to work, I've already had a handful of total freezes whilst working on Cubase 8.5 (64bit). Here's how it goes (quite random) for example:
Open a project, start working and after an x-amount of time, one click can completely freeze my computer -> force shutdown.


It usually takes some time until I can actually boot my machine. If I try to restart immediately, it seems like there's nothing happening and my only option is to turn my computer off (once it works I can recognize it from blinking lights on my keyboard etc).
This can also happen, while, for example, going through some files in windows explorer and then clicking cubase's arrange window to get back in there.
Yesterday I followed my computers temperatures for a while and noticed nothing of concern.. then again, during that period nothing bad happened..
I googled a bit and found some similar cases, which suggest checking my RAM (I'll do that once I get my computer up and running again :( ) or getting a stronger/better power supply.


Ah... any thoughts?


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## URL (Oct 2, 2016)

Freezing computer could be almost everything, but check bios for overheat/ram issue if your ram is compatible with your processor/MB, do you have some sort of pci-e cards connected... or could be fault ram but then you have to have ram to switch to test, take out ram so you have only minimum of ram then switch ram in different places

Update MB drivers soundcard/latest bios...


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## Mornats (Oct 2, 2016)

Could you maybe try it in Reaper to help narrow it down between hardware and software? You can use the trial version of Reaper to test it out.


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## URL (Oct 2, 2016)

If your computer do NOT start up as it should your fault is associated with hardware/bios not Cubase.
Bad drivers for sound card/hardware may sometime curse this kind of problem.


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## Tatu (Oct 2, 2016)

I'm running RAM diagnostics now and got a notification that there's an error somewhere there. Now just waiting for it to complete - seems to have stuck at 15% though - to find out more.


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## Tatu (Oct 3, 2016)

Here's a small update/rant.

So, apparently there's an issue with RAM. Now they ask me to return the whole damn thing for them to check and fix - if needed. This would take at least a week (sending via post and then just waiting) and if their soft-software tests say everything's fine, I'll end up paying a service fee. 

With that, I'd be sending about 15k worth of samples, mostly not copy protected (think of Spitfire Audio, 8Dio etc.) and they have no guarantee of any kind regarding those (I wonder what the dev's think of this?).

Yesterday windows completely failed after a crash and asked me to restore it - if that fails, what happens to stuff such as waves licenses that I've moved from their cloud to my local disk? I've also already used two registrations of ERA2 to this machine and I'm out of them, is it hard to request new ones from Best Service?

I sent them an email with two scenarios: 
1. I send the computer there and wait for at least a week and maybe nothing changes. 
2. They send me new RAM and I install it myself and sent the old ones back and hope that that solves it, takes two days.

If they reply that option 1 is the only one, my windows experiment is over. Lose at least 1000e in the process. Back to mac. Fuck PC's for life.


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## URL (Oct 3, 2016)

Sorry to hear, I go for nr.2. I had a ram issue on my MBP when upgrading ram and I got new ones and after replace MBP booth as it should.


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## Tatu (Oct 3, 2016)

URL said:


> I go for nr.2


Maybe I'm tired or being extremely pissed off has pushed my mental state to a teenager -level, but this made me laugh so hard. Thanks for that.

I do hope that they just send me new RAM, so I can continue on on my PC-ventures.

I now have had more issues on PC within a weekend than I've had on mac in 15 or so years. (I'm one of those lucky ones who's never had a faulty mac from the get go).


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## URL (Oct 3, 2016)

Tatu said:


> Maybe I'm tired or being extremely pissed off has pushed my mental state to a teenager -level, but this made me laugh so hard. Thanks for that.
> 
> I do hope that they just send me new RAM, so I can continue on on my PC-ventures.
> 
> I now have had more issues on PC within a weekend than I've had on mac in 15 or so years. (I'm one of those lucky ones who's never had a faulty mac from the get go).




I have been using the Mac almost since the Intel introduction on the Mac and it has been almost flawless, unfortunately the computer world has a certain complexity that entails a duration which one would rather spend on music creation.

Im waiting for new Mac pro but Im not sure how long Apples upgrade plan is...so 
It seems that MBP could arrive soon so..I need a MP.
Already have a Pc slave and I think that is enough for now.


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## Tatu (Oct 3, 2016)

URL said:


> Im waiting for new Mac pro but Im not sure how long Apples upgrade plan is...so


Aren't we all


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## Tysmall (Oct 3, 2016)

did you check to make sure the oc genie button wasn't clicked on in bios? mine came with it switched on on my 4790k.. and if you bought the non sabertooth mb, an overclocked cpu could easily be conflicting with your ram. those cheap boards can only give so much wattage to the cpu and an overclocked haswell is as power hungry as the clinton family.


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## Tatu (Oct 3, 2016)

Tysmall said:


> oc genie


What's that? 

I believe there's no overclocking going on at the moment.
My mobo is GA-Z170X-Gaming 3
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5497#ov


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## Tysmall (Oct 3, 2016)

if you go to your bios there should be a big button in the top left corner with the letters oc genie on it. if it's black with blue lettering it is off and if it is blue with white lettering it is on. You want it off. i would try booting on one stick of ram, cycle through until you find the one(s) that are corrupted or broken or whatever. if it doesn't boot off of any it is more than likely your motherboard as ram is a lot more durable than a motherboard and the chances that you got 4 duds is pretty small. Anyone who's ever built a pc has had motherboard problems (an exaggeration, but it is extremely common. they are fragile pieces of hardware.) I got one dead on arrival and i shipped it back and got a new one from the seller for free. Also back up your libraries && keep a text doc of your plugins/serials. you can get a used 4tb usb3 external hdd for like 80 bucks if you shop around. it's the best investment you will ever make, trust me i speak from experience.


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## ranaprathap (Oct 3, 2016)

Out of curiosity, what is the base clock you are running that 6700k? Are you running it at 4.0Ghz as mentioned in the post?

With a decent closed loop water cooling, you can push the 6700k to 4.6Ghz safely.


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## Tatu (Oct 4, 2016)

Tysmall said:


> if you go to your bios there should be a big button in the top left corner with the letters oc genie on it. if it's black with blue lettering it is off and if it is blue with white lettering it is on. You want it off. i would try booting on one stick of ram, cycle through until you find the one(s) that are corrupted or broken or whatever.


I'll check that. Thanks.
I'm going to test my RAM, stick by stick, since they finally agreed - after some pretty harsh feedback, social media justice crap and all that - to send me new ones if I find the faulty one and send it back.



ranaprathap said:


> Out of curiosity, what is the base clock you are running that 6700k? Are you running it at 4.0Ghz as mentioned in the post?
> 
> With a decent closed loop water cooling, you can push the 6700k to 4.6Ghz safely.


It's running at factory 4.0GHz. I guess it'd be safe to boost it up a bit (Gigabyte has some tools for that available), but currently I have no need for it.
Water cooling takes out warranty, so I'm not going there 

Though I do plan to give this some breaking-level tests once sorted out and make sure that each and every component gets switched to a new one at least once during warranty period. Only because of a very bad user experience and crappy after marketing of that company that I'm dealing with. Those things turn me into an asshole. And I'm an expert when it comes to being that.  Sorry, world.


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## URL (Oct 4, 2016)

Tatu said:


> I'll check that. Thanks.
> I'm going to test my RAM, stick by stick, since they finally agreed - after some pretty harsh feedback, social media justice crap and all that - to send me new ones if I find the faulty one and send it back.
> 
> Ram test, it is a good strategy.


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## Tatu (Oct 4, 2016)

I've ran Windows memory diagnostics twice and both times it has jammed after a certain point. I don't know if I should, and will I dare, to leave it on overnight, since occasionally it apparently does that, even though it's still working.
Might give memtest.org a chance as well, but I didn't even manage to make this thing boot from USB, so I'll try some RAM ripping methods before going there.


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## URL (Oct 4, 2016)

Tatu said:


> I've ran Windows memory diagnostics twice and both times it has jammed after a certain point. I don't know if I should, and will I dare, to leave it on overnight, since occasionally it apparently does that, even though it's still working.
> Might give memtest.org a chance as well, but I didn't even manage to make this thing boot from USB, so I'll try some RAM ripping methods before going there.



yes it is easiest to pick RAM one by one if it is not the error you go for check disks / motherboards and so on, whats the power supply in watt?
If you do not overclock and don't have lot of DSP cards in PCI-E slots it shouldn't consume to much power, in addition to the CPU / graphics card... all voltage in bios are correct they are not too low....?


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## Tatu (Oct 4, 2016)

URL said:


> yes it is easiest to pick RAM one by one if it is not the error you go for check disks / motherboards and so on, whats the power supply in watt?
> If you do not overclock and don't have lot of DSP cards in PCI-E slots it shouldn't consume to much power, in addition to the CPU / graphics card... all voltage in bios are correct they are not too low....?


I just wonder what the fault could be, since windows shows all the available RAM as supposed to, so who knows.. maybe the problem lies somewhere else, even though I get that notification of error on diagnostics, that never manages to finish, and therefore doesn't provide detailed info.

My power source is this: http://www.coolermaster.com/powersupply/b-series/b600/
No idea what to look for for problems.

Maybe I'll just list all the possible scenarios - since they only check what is reported - or write down that "THIS COMPUTER DOESNT WORK" and send it to them and let them spent a year or what ever it takes diagnosing/fixing it (since they were unable to give any timeframe for such complex operation such as testing/switching RAM sticks is).

Since I bought it to a company, I'm not protected by any consumer law in Finland. If I had bought it as an individual, I would've demanded money back already and ordered a new mac pro.


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## URL (Oct 4, 2016)

okey, RAM is a little tricky, if you load 8gb into RAM its not certain that RAM stick is the one that is "loaded" is broken but if loading 32gb into RAM, you might have load into the one that is fault. It could be one "area" on the RAM stick/chip that have a fault and not loaded all the way...and windows shows all ram stick because that not the fault until you load them all that way for ex. 64gb if that what you have...so

If your computer works with minimum RAM in WinX then you can think about RAM and check so they are in the right place at your MB and change stick and test RAM by RAM and Both Win.

When it comes to Voltage in bios it easy to check your RAM voltage so it set to auto or right voltage for your RAM what that is. If voltage is to low in bios there is a problem when cpu/grafic is enhanced in performance.

When problems start when you booth your computer in dos/bios it certain is hw/bios issue in that moment win is not loaded.

There is more to think about but check Ram first to exclude them.


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## Tatu (Oct 4, 2016)

Thanks @URL that's what I thought

OK there's definitely too much to spend time to. I'll just send it to the manufacturer/assembler to get it out of my sight and boot up my old Mac Pro; 7 years and counting, no problems, just old for todays tools..


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## URL (Oct 4, 2016)

Tatu said:


> Thanks @URL that's what I thought
> 
> OK there's definitely too much to spend time to. I'll just send it to the manufacturer/assembler to get it out of my sight and boot up my old Mac Pro; 7 years and counting, no problems, just old for todays tools..



Okey Im still on my Mac Pro Q 266 it works perfect but not without one PC slave and very soon there to much for both
of them so...Did you hear that APPLE /URL


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