# MuseScore 4 **UPDATED ** Jan 9. The Edge of Space



## dcoscina

This is promising but as it is a public Beta, it's got quick a few glitches. Just released 2 days ago so... For me MuseHub works fine. All of the sounds downloaded within 5-6 minutes. 


View attachment 87361


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## ssnowe

Nice


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## dcoscina

Updated it a bit more but cheated. I composed most of the new stuff in Dorico and imported via XML because the note input is really wonky in MuseScore 4 at this time.


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## Jett Hitt

This is pretty exciting. It basically means that we will have a StaffPad like app on our desktop with full scoring capabilities. Assuming that it can do stems, it should be easy enough to export the same music from both Musescore and StaffPad and then mix and match different libraries in a DAW.

I’m sure all of this is a ways off, but in my opinion, this just put Dorico on the hot seat.


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## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> This is pretty exciting. It basically means that we will have a StaffPad like app on our desktop with full scoring capabilities. Assuming that it can do stems, it should be easy enough to export the same music from both Musescore and StaffPad and then mix and match different libraries in a DAW.
> 
> I’m sure all of this is a ways off, but in my opinion, this just put Dorico on the hot seat.


For playback yes. For composing/notation I don't think MuseScore is catching Dorico anytime soon. It's a very impressive app and for simple charts and printouts that don't require a lot of engraving, sure it can work decently. But, for me, I can fly on Dorico so quickly to realize what I hear in my head because of its key commands and general work flow. I don't know if MS4 will ever be able to catch it. my 2 cents. the sounds are good but aren't at StaffPad level quite yet. That said, it just got released a few days ago so I expect revisions and updates to come thick and fast.


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## I like music

dcoscina said:


> For playback yes. For composing/notation I don't think MuseScore is catching Dorico anytime soon. It's a very impressive app and for simple charts and printouts that don't require a lot of engraving, sure it can work decently. But, for me, I can fly on Dorico so quickly to realize what I hear in my head because of its key commands and general work flow. I don't know if MS4 will ever be able to catch it. my 2 cents. the sounds are good but aren't at StaffPad level quite yet. That said, it just got released a few days ago so I expect revisions and updates to come thick and fast.


I haven't had the chance to try the sounds yet, but I did notice things like a single flute. I'm assuming these are pure samples and therefore if I wanted to a2 the flutes, I'd have to sort of just imagine it (or else it'd just phase?)

Did you encounter any of that?


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## ZenBYD

dcoscina said:


> For playback yes. For composing/notation I don't think MuseScore is catching Dorico anytime soon. It's a very impressive app and for simple charts and printouts that don't require a lot of engraving, sure it can work decently. But, for me, I can fly on Dorico so quickly to realize what I hear in my head because of its key commands and general work flow. I don't know if MS4 will ever be able to catch it. my 2 cents. the sounds are good but aren't at StaffPad level quite yet. That said, it just got released a few days ago so I expect revisions and updates to come thick and fast.


yeah this is my general impression. the playback is now really good... not staffpad level but pretty close... but its still way behind in all other areas. I've been using it all day and its just not going to catch up with the pro apps for general score work anytime soon.

this is not to diminish the achievement. it must have taken a lot of work and the fact the sounds are free is crazy. also, I can see that they're setting things up to release lots of new musesounds in the future... I just hope they work as hard on e.g the note entry and general workflow stuff as much as they have on the playback.


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## fakemaxwell

dcoscina said:


> But, for me, I can fly on Dorico so quickly to realize what I hear in my head because of its key commands and general work flow.


What are the differences? I've briefly used both and am not very skilled so they seemed pretty similar to me, but as a beginner that's a basically meaningless opinion.


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## ZenBYD

I like music said:


> I haven't had the chance to try the sounds yet, but I did notice things like a single flute. I'm assuming these are pure samples and therefore if I wanted to a2 the flutes, I'd have to sort of just imagine it (or else it'd just phase?)
> 
> Did you encounter any of that?


there is a flute 1 and a flute 2 - different samples... I guess if you wanted a2 you'd write for the two of them and hide one of them if you didn't want to double up in the score itself.


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## soundofmaw

Dorico is stable, fast, and can basically handle anything you can think of notation-wise and output very professional results. Musescore has come a long way from the previous version but still has a ways to go. I'm really impressed with Muse Sounds so far though. Dorico has NotePerformer available, but the instruments don't sound THIS good. Maybe the next version of NP will change that. I know it can do VST's, but you better set aside several weekends building expression maps for those.


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## Jett Hitt

When I said put Dorico on the hot seat, I meant up their playback game. With engraving, there’s no contest. But to me, playback is where Dorico failed miserably. It was the obvious frontier. You may like the way that Dorico interfaces for engraving better than Finale, but there is nothing that it will do that Finale won’t. (I suspect this is true of Sibelius as well.) Dorico left me scratching my head, wondering how they couldn’t see the perfectly obvious. In my opinion, they needed to bring something truly new to the table, and they failed to do so.

In any event, I am delighted with the pressure that Musescore will bring to bear.


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## I like music

ZenBYD said:


> there is a flute 1 and a flute 2 - different samples... I guess if you wanted a2 you'd write for the two of them and hide one of them if you didn't want to double up in the score itself.


Oh yeah, you're right. I meant oboe as an example, since there's only one. I just tried the strings for background chords. Sounded pretty good!

Can't believe this stuff is free...


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## dcoscina

fakemaxwell said:


> What are the differences? I've briefly used both and am not very skilled so they seemed pretty similar to me, but as a beginner that's a basically meaningless opinion.


For me, Dorico has more compositional utilities and features like Copy to Bar Above/Below, things that can save immeasurable time. For MuseScore, I have to copy-paste doubled parts into other staves. Whereas in Dorico, I just hit Command-Up Arrow and it copies my selection to the staff/instrument above or below. That is just one of many functions Dorico allows me to do. That said, if I were just starting out, I would totally endorse MuseScore because of its pretty generous score features and free bespoke library. It's a little funky now because it just landed as a public beta but I have all the confidence that those wrinkles will be ironed out and this app will be an amazing tool to write music on.


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## pinki

I think this puts enormous pressure on Notion. 
Notion has the best note entry of all the notation apps (for compositional workflow) but I intend to check MuseScore out on this front.


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## ZenBYD

yeah, I suppose it does apply pressure to dorico and sib on the playback front. for the price, they should offer better basic playback than something that's free. and like... really free. I didn't even need to sign up to anything to get the hub... there's sound effects and plugins and all sorts in there.

gotta wonder if that was the plan all along... for musescore to eventually license this engine out to steinberg and avid... and that's how they make money. perhaps great playback will become de facto standard in all notation programs!


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## ptram

dcoscina said:


> Updated it a bit more but cheated.


Can you post the same piece with Dorico + NotePerformer? I feel they wouldn't be too different.

Paolo


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## dcoscina

ptram said:


> Can you post the same piece with Dorico + NotePerformer? I feel they wouldn't be too different.
> 
> Paolo


Sure. It is different though. The Np version is more balanced. Not as hyped. But sonically the Muse Orch strings sound better in the long lyrical passages. The quick stuff seems to be it’s Achilles heel however. Brass sound better in NP as far as balance and dynamics. Winds I will give the edge to Muse Orch.


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## dcoscina

pinki said:


> I think this puts enormous pressure on Notion.
> Notion has the best note entry of all the notation apps (for compositional workflow) but I intend to check MuseScore out on this front.


I used to agree with this but MuseScore is pretty intuitive. And for me Dorico is the fastest in most scenarios but that’s largely because I’ve focussed on it for all of my concert works.


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## youngpokie

soundofmaw said:


> Dorico has NotePerformer available, but the instruments don't sound THIS good.


A question for those who do _*not*_ find Note Performer at all amazing - do you feel this beta points to MuseScore possibly sounding better than that when it's finalized? I don't have Staffpad but I do wonder if this beta is going to try to leap over NP and to Staffpad level...?


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## Jett Hitt

youngpokie said:


> A question for those who do _*not*_ find Note Performer at all amazing - do you feel this beta points to MuseScore possibly sounding better than that when it's finalized? I don't have Staffpad but I do wonder if this beta is going to try to leap over NP and to Staffpad level...?


Under the hood, this is essentially StaffPad with new libraries. The only thing holding it back (if they get it right) will be the quality of the libraries available to it. One hopes that in time OT and Spitfire stuff will be available for it.


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## pinki

How do they do this for free?


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## Jett Hitt

pinki said:


> How do they do this for free?


I don’t know the exact business model, but they make most of their money from scores published to their site. Musescore is the principal vehicle for delivering those scores. Supposedly, there are millions of users worldwide.


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## Snarf

youngpokie said:


> A question for those who do _*not*_ find Note Performer at all amazing - do you feel this beta points to MuseScore possibly sounding better than that when it's finalized? I don't have Staffpad but I do wonder if this beta is going to try to leap over NP and to Staffpad level...?



Okay so, here is a Nicholas Dodd piece written for Staffpad:



And here is the same piece played by MuseScore 4 and the new MuseSounds libraries:






Nicholas Dodd - Searching Four [MuseSounds version]


Rendered by the MuseScore 4 Beta.




audio.com





There are still some kinks and playback glitches - it's still an early beta - but they're being reported and worked out. I absolutely believe this can and will be at Staffpad level if we give it some more time.


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## dcoscina

Agreed this is looking promising


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## Snarf

Jett Hitt said:


> I don’t know the exact business model, but they make most of their money from scores published to their site. Musescore is the principal vehicle for delivering those scores. Supposedly, there are millions of users worldwide.


Furthermore, both MuseScore.org and Musescore.com are part of MuseGroup, which also owns Ultimate Guitar, Audacity, and Staffpad.


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## fakemaxwell

MuseHub looks exactly like Staffpad's store, so I guess we know why development there has stalled.

I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to transfer the paid Staffpad libraries to MuseScore mechanically. What remains to be seen is how purchases would work... My guess is that on Windows it'll transfer no problem but Apple will not. Maybe some sort of receipt system could work? Would feel real terrible to buy things twice.


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## Jett Hitt

fakemaxwell said:


> MuseHub looks exactly like Staffpad's store, so I guess we know why development there has stalled.
> 
> I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to transfer the paid Staffpad libraries to MuseScore mechanically. What remains to be seen is how purchases would work... My guess is that on Windows it'll transfer no problem but Apple will not. Maybe some sort of receipt system could work? Would feel real terrible to buy things twice.


There won’t just be flak from Apple in this case but also from the developers. OT ( for example) sold you Berlin Strings to work with StaffPad and only StaffPad. They’re gonna want to get paid again. Now logically you should be able to use the same samples in Musescore without paying a second time—you don’t pay again when you switch DAWs—but I bet developers won’t see it that way. 

Let me say, however, that I hope I am very very wrong.


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## fakemaxwell

Yeah I'm sure it depends on the licensing agreements. Hopefully it works out for us...

The new library sounds pretty good though. Tbh I've become disillusioned by Staffpad which is pretty disappointing considering I've dropped a bunch of money on it. Too much time spent redrawing and just getting the basics to work. Can't use it for anything serious.


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## Jett Hitt

fakemaxwell said:


> Yeah I'm sure it depends on the licensing agreements. Hopefully it works out for us...
> 
> The new library sounds pretty good though. Tbh I've become disillusioned by Staffpad which is pretty disappointing considering I've dropped a bunch of money on it. Too much time spent redrawing and just getting the basics to work. Can't use it for anything serious.


I use StaffPad for full symphonic works, but I will be the first to tell you what a pain it is. I seriously hope that development picks back up. I’ve dropped a ton of money into it. But it would be fantastic if Musescore could take its place. I would not be keen, however, to not have the Berlin libraries at my fingertips, though it sounds like we’ll be able to use the full VSTs in Musescore in time. For someone like me, who loathes DAWs, this is all pretty exciting.


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## Markrs

pinki said:


> How do they do this for free?


You can subscribe to Musescore.com and that generates revenue. I subscribe even though I don't really use Musescore.com that much knowing that the money sports Musescore app development.


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## muziksculp

MuseScore 4 looks very promising, offering both Mac and Windows support. I'm excited about it's release late this year, or early next year. 

Is MuseScore 4 Playing it's own built-in Orch. Instruments ? If Yes, I wonder who is developing them ? 

Or is it triggering third-party Orch. Sample Libraries ? 

And For Mac OS will MuseScore 4 be compatible with M1 (Apple Silicon) and OS Monterey when it is officially released ?


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## Piotrek K.

dcoscina said:


> I composed most of the new stuff in Dorico and imported via XML because the note input is really wonky in MuseScore 4 at this time.


Ah, it makes sense now. I really find note insertion super wonky in MS and I felt I'm literally fighting software there. I had Dorico and used it for more than a year (and then I sold it as I focused more on DAW) but when it comes to note insertion and note transformation Dorico is milion miles ahead, for example caret - it sounds like super basic concept, yet makes note insertion a breeze without need to even thinking of rests. Triplet tool works odd in MS imo, first I need to choose note duration, then set triplet and then draw notes. When I see those little annoyances I start to notice how well thought Dorico is. I was able to use Dorico almost without a mouse and it is not possible in MS (can't create shortcut for dynamics for example). Although I must admit that super simple MS interface is really well thought and almost everything is available from one place. I also feel it can become a game changer due to the price. Or rather lack of it. I'm still baffled why Steinberg is not working with sample devs on preconfigured articulation maps (I know that VSL have some, but this is VSL work not Steinberg afaik).



youngpokie said:


> I don't have Staffpad but I do wonder if this beta is going to try to leap over NP and to Staffpad level...?


I've been using NP for long time some time ago and yes, Muse Sounds are better in a term of pure sound color. Those are real recordings after all. But NP kills it when it comes to expression and consistency etc.



muziksculp said:


> Is MuseScore 4 Playing it's own built-in Orch. Instruments ? If Yes, I wonder who is developing them ?


Afaik those are completely new recordings developed with help of StaffPad team.



muziksculp said:


> Or is it triggering third-party Orch. Sample Libraries ?


MuseScore is capable of using third party VST but for now there is no articulation mapping features, so external VI support is very limited.


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## PebbleStream

I wonder if they will release VST (or CLAP) versions of these instruments that can be used in DAWs for finer control? Fingers crossed.


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## ZenBYD

Jett Hitt said:


> Under the hood, this is essentially StaffPad with new libraries. The only thing holding it back (if they get it right) will be the quality of the libraries available to it. One hopes that in time OT and Spitfire stuff will be available for it.


I'm not so sure - it might be the staffpad engine, but its still held back by musescore itself. there's a lot of concepts in missing like the expression lane or layer and whatever.

again don't read me wrong its remarkable, but I don't think its as simple as 'this symbol triggers that file' or you just plugin the staffpad engine and you get staffpad playback... 

... it does explain the fewer updates to staffpad. it must have taken them ages to get the sampler working with musescore... the hub is obviously the staffpad team as well... native macOS and windows... animations and slick design... the effects are the same as in staffpad but with a UI. so... they have been very busy.


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## ZenBYD

PebbleStream said:


> I wonder if they will release VST (or CLAP) versions of these instruments that can be used in DAWs for finer control? Fingers crossed.


I don't think so. I believe the way the sampler works is very different to e.g a VST.


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## Jett Hitt

Somewhere I saw that Tantacrul specifically said the the sounds will not work in a DAW without modifications by the DAW developers.


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## YaniDee

Is there a way to download the sounds without muse hub?..I can't get it to open..


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## Composer 2021

The Muse sounds are almost certainly made in the StaffPad engine. I've already found familiar glitches such as some staccato notes being a full dynamic louder than surrounding notes. :(

Still, this is a major landmark in music technology. Now anyone with a computer can have free access to decent sounds!


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## TonyZem

Composer 2021 said:


> The Muse sounds are almost certainly made in the StaffPad engine. I've already found familiar glitches such as some staccato notes being a full dynamic louder than surrounding notes. :(
> 
> Still, this is a major landmark in music technology. Now anyone with a computer can have free access to decent sounds!


I noticed those glitches too. I've tested the strings on an orchestral arrangement of mine that has a lot o pianos, mfs, ffs, crescendos, etc. Well, I'm surprised that almost every dynamic functioned as it was suppost to be, even the glissando! As you said, some notes respond louder than others, depending on the dynamic applied. It seems, to me, that not all musical dynamics were mapped properly yet. All in all, I'm so happy now that I can hear my strings arrangements in a more pleasant manner than before.


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## rsg22

Composer 2021 said:


> The Muse sounds are almost certainly made in the StaffPad engine. I've already found familiar glitches such as some staccato notes being a full dynamic louder than surrounding notes. :(



I’ve always wondered if those glitches we have to deal with in Staffpad were from the playback engine or the samples or a combination of both. Interesting that we’re seeing the same thing in MuseScore.


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## Piotrek K.

pinki said:


> How do they do this for free?


I can only guess that musescore.com generates so much revenue that they actually can develop new app, pay for recording sessions etc. Also there is a chance they will introduce at some point add-ons to factory library that will cost money.


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## d.healey

Musescore was originally part of muse sequencer - a free software DAW. The free in free software is for freedom, not price. Since Musescore was/is published under the GNU GPL it will always remain free software. It's still commercial software though, the program is required by the money making side of the business Musescore.com


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## Markrs

I still have a subscription to musescore.com to be able to access all the scores they have, but I also like knowing it helps fund Musescore application.


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## dcoscina

Another short demo added.


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## I like music

dcoscina said:


> Another short demo added.



Great music! Ping us when you write more!
Sounds very good.
BTW silly question but how do you get a "continuous" page view in Musescore?


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## dcoscina

I like music said:


> Great music! Ping us when you write more!
> Sounds very good.
> BTW silly question but how do you get a "continuous" page view in Musescore?


There is an option in the lower right bottom of the main window


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## I like music

dcoscina said:


> There is an option in the lower right bottom of the main window


Ahhhh nice, thank you!


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## wcreed51

Is anyone else having Marlwarebytes block outgoing traffic from MuseHub?


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## dcoscina

The latest build kinda messed up the string trills... they no longer play over the bar with tied notes... arghhh


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## dcoscina

Looks like the most recent build fixed it... sort of. Refreshing the app via MuseHub seems to download new builds every day. Interesting. It does remove the old version and its shortcut to my quickload bar which is slightly annoying but I can always launch directly via MuseHub so it's not all bad.


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## dcoscina

Another short test of the trills now that the latest build seemed to fix the issue of trills over bar lines (tied notes).


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## dcoscina

A little more Trilled to See You here. Added a few other things to the existing section too. More instrument updates this week have helped smooth out some playback issues. 

View attachment More Trilled to See You .mp4


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## soundofmaw

dcoscina said:


> A little more Trilled to See You here. Added a few other things to the existing section too. More instrument updates this week have helped smooth out some playback issues.
> 
> View attachment More Trilled to See You .mp4


Sounds wonderful! This whole sketch was very interesting to listen to. Very colourful writing. Well done.


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## wcreed51

I don't see any indication of updates in the Hub. How are you checking?


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## dcoscina

I usually close the hub then re open. I’m on Mac and I’ve got updates set automatic but I do notice when the sound libraries are being updated because it takes a while for them to download and update.


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## pinki

The hub won't run on Catalina, is there a workaround to get the sounds?


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## dcoscina

pinki said:


> The hub won't run on Catalina, is there a workaround to get the sounds?


Hmm I don’t know. I’m on Monterey.


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## VSTHero

BigSur is also having issues - started with the most recent 1 to 2 updates of Muse Hub, basically crashes on loading. It's been reported by several folks in the GitHub tracker but it may be a bit as it's not flagged as high priority yet.


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## JSTube

VSTHero said:


> BigSur


Is bigsur allowed to be ran anymore??? Apple keeps telling me its too old :(


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## I like music

Does anyone have tips for how to write dynamic markings on Musescore 4? They don't seem to respond.

However it is possible that due to be having never written anything in notation software (also don't know how to write on score, but working on it) that I'm making some mistakes.

Their tutorials are very old and I'm not sure if they apply to MS now.


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## VSTHero

I think you just select a note and click the dynamic marking from the pallet and it attaches. I'm sure there are more efficient short cuts as well. Crescendos and decrescendos also attach to notes. MS4 is still super buggy in current Beta though so weird things can happen at any moment - good to check the GitHub incase you discover something that hasn't been reported yet.


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## VSTHero

JSTube said:


> Is bigsur allowed to be ran anymore??? Apple keeps telling me its too old :(


I'm using 11.6.1 - still going strong. Might upgrade one of these days


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## I like music

VSTHero said:


> I think you just select a note and click the dynamic marking from the pallet and it attaches. I'm sure there are more efficient short cuts as well. Crescendos and decrescendos also attach to notes. MS4 is still super buggy in current Beta though so weird things can happen at any moment - good to check the GitHub incase you discover something that hasn't been reported yet.


Thanks, I will do. Yeah my question was around crescendos. I was testing something like p to f across a sustained note. I could not figure out how to do that one! I used a hairpin after the initial dynamic marking (so the initial dynamic that connects to the note) but wasn't quite sure what the hairpin was pointing to (it normally "latches"). I'm assuming the "latching" prompt that you see is how long Musescore interprets that hairpin to be.

I just couldn't hear it so wasn't sure if it was user error.

I'll add it to the feedback just in case it is a bug.


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## dcoscina

I like music said:


> Thanks, I will do. Yeah my question was around crescendos. I was testing something like p to f across a sustained note. I could not figure out how to do that one! I used a hairpin after the initial dynamic marking (so the initial dynamic that connects to the note) but wasn't quite sure what the hairpin was pointing to (it normally "latches"). I'm assuming the "latching" prompt that you see is how long Musescore interprets that hairpin to be.
> 
> I just couldn't hear it so wasn't sure if it was user error.
> 
> I'll add it to the feedback just in case it is a bug.


Yes keep in mind this is a public beta and it’s not free of major bugs. I was getting crescendos even without hairpins and just when there was a dynamics change, which was weird. They seemed to have fixed that


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## TomaeusD

It's amazing to be using notation software like this for free. Unfortunately getting some pops and clicks with every buffer size and I've got a highly capable PC.


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## ssnowe

TomaeusD said:


> It's amazing to be using notation software like this for free. Unfortunately getting some pops and clicks with every buffer size and I've got a highly capable PC.


Betas are like that, usually gets sorted when the production version is released


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## dcoscina

@Noeticus Maybe post these other YT vids in the MuseScore 4 thread, not this one with my Muse Score tests? I'm trying to keep this thread open when I post new updates to the scores I'm testing out in MS4

Thanks


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## Noeticus

dcoscina said:


> @Noeticus Maybe post these other YT vids in the MuseScore 4 thread, not this one with my Muse Score tests? I'm trying to keep this thread open when I post new updates to the scores I'm testing out in MS4
> 
> Thanks


Done.


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## dcoscina

Noeticus said:


> Done.


Thanks kindly sir!


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## marius_dm

This is pretty amazing. I've paid for Staffpad and the entire Berlin series (Staffpad versions) but I got fed up with working on an iPad and using pencil input. This sounds just as good with better (IMO) input.


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## dcoscina

marius_dm said:


> This is pretty amazing. I've paid for Staffpad and the entire Berlin series (Staffpad versions) but I got fed up with working on an iPad and using pencil input. This sounds just as good with better (IMO) input.


Well yes and no. Before all of the "revisions" for StaffPad, it actually sounded really good. Berlin series in particular had exquisite legato and shorts. Now its playback is not as good with the third party libraries. Muse Sounds do sound very good and getting better all the time. I'm still really disappointed with how StaffPad devolved. :(


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## wcreed51

Or didn't...


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## OstrovskyiComposer

Posted in another forum thread, but I'll duplicate it here.
Honestly, I was pleasantly surprised by both the sounds and the playback engine. I downloaded the xml score of "Faunе" by Debussy on MuseScore, (in which I did not edit anything) ran it in different notation editors with the participation of NotePerformer. The result is that NotePerformer performs significantly worse than this beta version. Moreover, the StaffPad with the Berlin libraries turned out to be surprisingly the loser, both the strings and the StaffPad itself, which reacted too sharply to the dynamics, could not cope. Most likely, this is due to the fact that third-party libraries for StaffPad, which often lose to its native libraries (not in sound, of course). This is most likely the story here - Muse Sounds turn out to be maximally integrated with articulations in MuseScore. By the way, the xml file (Debussy) itself is quite problematic, it has, to put it mildly, amateurish dynamics and nuances, and there are problems with some recording of parts, especially harps. However, the magic of the beta version of MuseScore 4 with its Muse Sounds did it.
Thank you beta developers, you are doing wonders!


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## Jett Hitt

The remarkable thing about StaffPad and now, perhaps, Musescore is that all of this is accomplished with minimal effort. In the right hands, this could sound much better with VSTs, but my god can you imagine the number of hours that it would take?


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## Markrs

Jett Hitt said:


> The remarkable thing about StaffPad and now, perhaps, Musescore is that all of this is accomplished with minimal effort. In the right hands, this could sound much better with VSTs, but my god can you imagine the number of hours that it would take?


Totally agree, but I do think they can go further in the performance, somehow I am more convinced it will be Musescore that continues to develop the performance feature than StaffPad.

I will probably buy Dorico Elements and give their playback Engine a go using VSTs


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## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> The remarkable thing about StaffPad and now, perhaps, Musescore is that all of this is accomplished with minimal effort. In the right hands, this could sound much better with VSTs, but my god can you imagine the number of hours that it would take?


And for some of us, we just want to focus on the music elements and less the production so any progress in the area of integrated playback of our music is definitely compelling. NotePerformer 4 promises to be a big step up from 3 according to Arne and since I primarily work in Dorico, that’s great news. But I’m very excited about MuseScore as well- there was just another strings update this morning. This app is getting a lot of focus and attention.. which is a good thing!


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## Jett Hitt

Markrs said:


> Totally agree, but I do think they can go further in the performance, somehow I am more convinced it will be Musescore that continues to develop the performance feature than StaffPad.
> 
> I will probably buy Dorico Elements and give their playback Engine a go using VSTs


As much as it pains me to say so, because I really love it, StaffPad is dead. Musegroup bought it to cannibalize its playback engine. They won't continue with StaffPad in any meaningful way for the same reason that DWH sold it: It doesn't make any money. God, I hope I am wrong, but I suspect that I am not.


----------



## Markrs

Jett Hitt said:


> As much as it pains me to say so, because I really love it, StaffPad is dead. Musegroup bought it to cannibalize its playback engine. They won't continue with StaffPad in any meaningful way for the same reason that DWH sold it: It doesn't make any money. God, I hope I am wrong, but I suspect that I am not.


I really hope you are wrong but I fear you are right. 

I just so wanted a big band library to added to it, but I doubt that will happen.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Markrs said:


> I really hope you are wrong but I fear you are right.
> 
> I just so wanted a big band library to added to it, but I doubt that will happen.


We will probably get the Musesounds ported over, and I believe that they contain most of the jazz instruments. Perhaps @dcoscina can verify.


----------



## dcoscina

Markrs said:


> I really hope you are wrong but I fear you are right.
> 
> I just so wanted a big band library to added to it, but I doubt that will happen.


I'm not sure. I haven't heard anything about the jazz instruments from MuseSounds making their way to StaffPad... but it would be nice if they did. The saxes are pretty nice actually


----------



## sundrowned

It's annoying. I still write faster in staffpad than anything else. DWH was right about something (well quite a few things really) there is an immediacy and physicality to writing with pen. Or at least there is for me. Most of the other ways have a layer of abstraction or technical requirement like needing a midi keyboard that can get in the way. Especially because I travel quite a bit as well. On windows I have various tools that speed it up even more. 

I can still use staffpad of course. And do. It hasn't disappeared. But further development and fixes would have been good.


----------



## VSTHero

sundrowned said:


> It's annoying. I still write faster in staffpad than anything else. DWH was right about something (well quite a few things really) there is an immediacy and physicality to writing with pen. Or at least there is for me. Most of the other ways have a layer of abstraction or technical requirement like needing a midi keyboard that can get in the way. Especially because I travel quite a bit as well. On windows I have various tools that speed it up even more.
> 
> I can still use staffpad of course. And do. It hasn't disappeared. But further development and fixes would have been good.


Hopefully development will restart in tandem with the muse player/muse sounds, feels like there’s an opportunity there


----------



## Jett Hitt

sundrowned said:


> It's annoying. I still write faster in staffpad than anything else. DWH was right about something (well quite a few things really) there is an immediacy and physicality to writing with pen. Or at least there is for me. Most of the other ways have a layer of abstraction or technical requirement like needing a midi keyboard that can get in the way. Especially because I travel quite a bit as well. On windows I have various tools that speed it up even more.
> 
> I can still use staffpad of course. And do. It hasn't disappeared. But further development and fixes would have been good.


I completely agree with this, despite my constant battle with the handwriting algorithm. I suppose it comes from so many years of sitting at the piano with a pencil and paper. There’s something very therapeutic about it.


----------



## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> I completely agree with this, despite my constant battle with the handwriting algorithm. I suppose it comes from so many years of sitting at the piano with a pencil and paper. There’s something very therapeutic about it.


Staffpad also means you aren’t chained to a desk. I wrote a couple longer concert works on the couch, outside, and even in my car. I’m terribly disappointed at how it’s evolution has transpired


----------



## ssnowe

Wouldn’t be surprised if Staffpad gets rebranded as Musescore on iPadOS.


----------



## Jett Hitt

I don’t take it out of my studio very often, but this past spring I packed StaffPad with a thermos of coffee when I went to babysit a cow with twin bison calves. I spent the better part of the afternoon writing in my Gator and watching those two struggle to nurse. It was kind of cool. Mostly though, I just surf VI-C when I’m patrolling the farm because all of you bozos have such deep and meaningful things to say. 😂


----------



## dcoscina

I added onto one of the original test demos I was doing a few weeks ago. Triplets are still a problem in MS4. It doesn't seem to play them rhythmically correctly, like doing a roadside sobriety test on someone way over the limit who cannot walk a straight line. The choir sounds good, however.


----------



## dcoscina

ssnowe said:


> Wouldn’t be surprised if Staffpad gets rebranded as Musescore on iPadOS.


I could totally see that


----------



## wcreed51

dcoscina said:


> I could totally see that


Don't you mean Musescore for PC Tablet?


----------



## dcoscina

wcreed51 said:


> Don't you mean Musescore for PC Tablet?


I’d say it would be rebranded for both platforms.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

dcoscina said:


> I added onto one of the original test demos I was doing a few weeks ago. Triplets are still a problem in MS4. It doesn't seem to play them rhythmically correctly, like doing a roadside sobriety test on someone way over the limit who cannot walk a straight line. The choir sounds good, however.



This sounds better than what I can make with samples tbh!


----------



## dcoscina

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> This sounds better than what I can make with samples tbh!


That’s very kind. Muse Sounds still need developing but they are definitely making good progress.


----------



## dcoscina

Tested the shorts last night. Varying success... I like this idea I stumbled on so I think I will flesh this one out further. Kinda fun. 
View attachment MS4 short demo_record.mp4


----------



## I like music

dcoscina said:


> Tested the shorts last night. Varying success... I like this idea I stumbled on so I think I will flesh this one out further. Kinda fun.
> View attachment MS4 short demo_record.mp4


what are your thoughts on the instrument balance and relative 'accuracy' at different dynamics? from what i'm hearing it sounds fairly balanced but i haven't had the chance to test drive it THAT much


----------



## dcoscina

I like music said:


> what are your thoughts on the instrument balance and relative 'accuracy' at different dynamics? from what i'm hearing it sounds fairly balanced but i haven't had the chance to test drive it THAT much


the balance is still a challenge. NotePerformer and Dorico do a far better job at this point. And based on what Arne said about NP4, I think it will continue to lead in terms of balance. However, I'm not going to pretend MuseScore isn't formidable in its own right. These sounds are quite good and expressive. The string longs note slurs are really quite excellent. David Wiliam Hearn found a very effective way of programming these note transitions that, frankly, I cannot replicate with the larger sample libraries in Kontakt or their own bespoke players... I keep trying but what takes hours to do in a DAW, MuseSounds and Staffpad do in literally seconds... dammit.


----------



## I like music

dcoscina said:


> the balance is still a challenge. NotePerformer and Dorico do a far better job at this point. And based on what Arne said about NP4, I think it will continue to lead in terms of balance. However, I'm not going to pretend MuseScore isn't formidable in its own right. These sounds are quite good and expressive. The string longs note slurs are really quite excellent. David Wiliam Hearn found a very effective way of programming these note transitions that, frankly, I cannot replicate with the larger sample libraries in Kontakt or their own bespoke players... I keep trying but what takes hours to do in a DAW, MuseSounds and Staffpad do in literally seconds... dammit.


Thank you. Regarding the strings, I agree. What I've heard in that sort of context has been exceptional.

I would imagine (though I say this with no inkling of what actually goes into making these products) that the balance part could be the 'easy' fix. I imagine it'd be a priority too. Fingers crossed they look at that aspect soon.


----------



## dcoscina

And I've added a few more things onto that string shorts demo I was working on... except it's more lyrical now... I think that second section will ultimately come later on in this piece but I figured I would explore the idea while I was into it today. I often work laterally... moving all around a piece, expanding from both directions.. I used to draw like that too. Left-hander here... our brains are messed up.


----------



## dcoscina

Did a bit more of this last night but realized it's actually missing a development section... so I need to do that right after that opening expository section. This is what I have so far however. I used @Peter Emanuel Roos Berlin Studio on the wav file mixdown in Studio One since MuseScore seems to ignore this plug in within its program... weird but oh well. I also treated this mixdown to Ozone 10 Classical preset.


----------



## I like music

Does anyone know if there's a way to control volume for individual nots where the dynamics only will not cut it? For example, I have some trumpet staccatos going on, but mf is too quiet and f is too loud. I'd love to bring the volume of the mf's up just for a few notes.

I'm wondering if I've missed something obvious.

Thanks!


----------



## Jett Hitt

I like music said:


> Does anyone know if there's a way to control volume for individual nots where the dynamics only will not cut it? For example, I have some trumpet staccatos going on, but mf is too quiet and f is too loud. I'd love to bring the volume of the mf's up just for a few notes.
> 
> I'm wondering if I've missed something obvious.
> 
> Thanks!


I don’t think so. Seems like the workaround would be to put the staccatos on a different staff and adjust with the mixer. 

I have played with M4 quite a bit over the past few days, and it is extraordinary both what it will and won’t do. They’re talking about releasing it on December 14, which is eye opening because it’s still pretty rough around the edges. You can’t complain too much because it’s free, I suppose, but it’s a long way from something I’d use daily. 

Based on what I see missing, I’m guessing that they’re going to add new features on a rolling basis. There’s still a lot to be desired.


----------



## I like music

Jett Hitt said:


> I don’t think so. Seems like the workaround would be to put the staccatos on a different staff and adjust with the mixer.
> 
> I have played with M4 quite a bit over the past few days, and it is extraordinary both what it will and won’t do. They’re talking about releasing it on December 14, which is eye opening because it’s still pretty rough around the edges. You can’t complain too much because it’s free, I suppose, but it’s a long way from something I’d use daily.
> 
> Based on what I see missing, I’m guessing that they’re going to add new features on a rolling basis. There’s still a lot to be desired.


Got it, thanks.

Thinking exactly the same thing. The stuff it is able to do is extraordinary (especially given that it is free). The stuff it can't do, I was also surprised by (but then again, it is free, so it is all a bonus)

As someone who only started 'composing' in their 30s, I struggled a lot with DAWs. Since having downloaded Musescore, I've written more music in the last 4 weeks than I have in the last 5 years. Even in instances like this where it doesn't quite sound how I want it to, I can move on because somehow I'm finding it much easier to write left to right. With my DAWs, I'd be stuck on Bar 3 for six months.

Just wish I had learned to read music as a child, because this way of composing is somehow suiting me much better. It just takes ages to do the notation thing, and to visualise stuff. All in all, pretty amazing achievement and something I hope they keep developing.


----------



## VSTHero

If individual note velocity editing/override isn’t enabled yet it’ll get added (plus I’m pretty sure you’ll be able to customize the playback engine in later versions as well). The piano roll and CC editing is coming. VST support wouldn’t be off much use if you couldn’t control velocity on top of CC1 and CC11.


----------



## Jett Hitt

VSTHero said:


> If individual note velocity editing/override isn’t enabled yet it’ll get added (plus I’m pretty sure you’ll be able to customize the playback engine in later versions as well). The piano roll and CC editing is coming. VST support wouldn’t be off much use if you couldn’t control velocity on top of CC1 and CC11.


I am really hoping these features are in the pipe. If I could edit CC data and use keyswitches, it would instantly replace Logic for me.


----------



## Jett Hitt




----------



## wcreed51

I thought some sort of PRV was supposed to be included by release time


----------



## dcoscina

I’ve gotta say that, much like when Staffpad debuted on iOS in 2020, MuseScore has got me writing a lot more music. It’s not that it’s superior to Dorico when it comes to actual workflow but I’m embarrassed to admit I’m a sucker for nice playback. It’s immediate validation. I’m so superficial…


----------



## Jett Hitt

wcreed51 said:


> I thought some sort of PRV was supposed to be included by release time


I am pretty sure I heard @Tantacrul say that they planned to implement the piano roll and editors later. I don't want to put words in his mouth because I really can't remember, but it seems like he said that was the next thing they were working on after release. I feel like I heard him on a podcast, but damned if I can remember.


----------



## VSTHero

It's definite - the whole point is to have Muse Score 4 have DAW level of function similar to Dorico; but to do that they had to rebuild everything from the ground up, so it's just taking time. I've been following the development on discord since announcement - the amount of work, fixes, changes is staggering to watch, but all that stuff is coming. It'll also have adjustable playback rules similar to Dorico (clearly MuseSounds is already using this but the ability to adjust things as a user is for later). Give it a year or two and Muse Score 4 is going to be pretty robust in all those areas. I'm less sure of the plans around engraving and the direction that will take in terms of catching up with competitors, but clearly Tantricul and the team are super thoughtful and concerned in that area.


----------



## Jett Hitt

I do hope that the engraving component is acceptable, if not good. I have yearned for one-stop production for a long time. I'd just like to be able to do everything in the same program. As is, I begin in StaffPad, move to Logic, then move back to StaffPad because, despite owning very nice VSTs, I somehow can't make it sound as good as StaffPad. Then I end up in Finale. I had hoped that Dorico was going to be the one-stop solution, and then I discovered the ugly reality of expression maps. Even if I invested considerable time to set up my OT libraries in Dorico, I have scores of libraries. Who can take a week off to build new expression maps every time you want to use a new library? The other thing that I notice is that, despite being out for almost a year now, I don't hear any Dorico mockups. Only one person has posted a few examples. By contrast, look at all of the many examples of pieces done in StaffPad on this forum and Youtube. This makes me suspicious, though probably it is just the Sisyphean task of programming expression maps.


----------



## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> I do hope that the engraving component is acceptable, if not good. I have yearned for one-stop production for a long time. I'd just like to be able to do everything in the same program. As is, I begin in StaffPad, move to Logic, then move back to StaffPad because, despite owning very nice VSTs, I somehow can't make it sound as good as StaffPad. Then I end up in Finale. I had hoped that Dorico was going to be the one-stop solution, and then I discovered the ugly reality of expression maps. Even if I invested considerable time to set up my OT libraries in Dorico, I have scores of libraries. Who can take a week off to build new expression maps every time you want to use a new library? The other thing that I notice is that, despite being out for almost a year now, I don't hear any Dorico mockups. Only one person has posted a few examples. By contrast, look at all of the many examples of pieces done in StaffPad on this forum and Youtube. This makes me suspicious, though probably it is just the Sisyphean task of programming expression maps.


I think Dorico is fundamentally a tool to produce music to be performed by real groups. The intention never was to work too hard to make a piece sound realistic because the end game is a real performance. NotePerformer 3 works well enough for balance and approximation for groups to use as a general guide but its modus operandi was never to be finished quality material. Given Steinberg's ideology and development path, NotePerformer 4 is really the only hope to get close to the quality playback we've gotten accustomed to with StaffPad and now MuseScore. Unless you want to spend eons customizing your own expression maps or you have a computer with enough RAM to house large libraries for playback purposes. I personally do not so..... it's NP3 with Dorico and MuseScore 4.


----------



## VSTHero

Although once you understand how the expression maps work, it's not that bad to set them up. I'm not sure it's more work than classic Template building once you understand it. It took me about 10 hours to go from no clue to having all the CS libraries setup. The approach is valuable for those who have a need for high grade mockups (imagine you're a game composer who isn't going to use live players) but prefer to compose using notation rather than performing the lines in or using piano roll; it's a valuable thing to have that option. I haven't posted any mockups not because it doesn't work, but because nobody needs to hear my amateur orchestrations - a whole different issue (that I'm working on slowly and steadily), but for me, it's the best playback I've ever had. Anyway, just personal thoughts, it really really depends on your goals are. I'm with you that NP3 is where it's at and MS4 is going save a lot of folks the trouble of setting up custom playback rules. Also the CPU demand is high, but if your already making large mockups in a DAW, that's nothing new.


----------



## Jett Hitt

dcoscina said:


> I think Dorico is fundamentally a tool to produce music to be performed by real groups. The intention never was to work too hard to make a piece sound realistic because the end game is a real performance.


If this is true, this is where they missed the boat in my opinion. I was already able to accomplish these things with Finale 25 years ago. There had been no doubt in my mind that Dorico would be the future where notation was concerned (Finale is dying, and Sibelius, well, they fired the Dorico team, now didn't they?), but Musescore may be changing the direction that I thought this was going. The Musescore interface is primitive--for now--but it is free, extremely easy to use, and it has (or will have) fantastic playback. I am not sure how Dorico competes with that.

I am very glad to hear that Dorico is functioning well for you @VSTHero. The CS libraries (Cinematic Studio Series I assume.) are pretty simple libraries compared to Berlin Strings or SSS, however. Given the current prescription for an expression map, I can't imagine tackling Berlin Strings, and I wouldn't know where to start because Dorico has failed to give us a road map. (I may try again once I really see what Musescore is all about.)

I do think that the solution in Dorico would be fairly simple if they would implement it. I need a simple way to assign keyswitches and channels, and it would be helpful if I could program different sets of dynamics to my own CC values. I think that they have covered the other bases with editors. Once I have the mockup completed, I could then copy the notes to another flow and mark up the score for performance. This is the beauty of flows. Unfortunately, they tried to make it so that everything is contained in one flow which, to me, sort of defeats the purpose of having multiple flows.

This is how I see it, but I am sure someone will be happy to tell me why I am wrong.


----------



## Markrs

Musescore comes with a composition by Nicholas Dodds called "Searching Four". It is a really nice composition, so I thought I would compare the Musescore Sounds with Berlin Series from Staffpad and see which sounds best. Staffpad version has a brief "hiccup" in the render, sadly. I didn't adjust anything in them, mearly connected the correct instruments up.

Musescore Sounds:
View attachment Searching Four - Musescore Sounds.mp3


Staffpad Berlin Series:
View attachment Searching Four - StaffPad Berlin Series.mp3


Personally, I think both do a great job. When I listen to Staffpad and what Musescore can do, I do wonder if using sample libraries is worth the effort as it often takes so long to work the samples. 

Regarding Dorico I would like to see some sample library developers look to integrate their libraries into it. I know this is something Aaron Venture is looking at for his Infinite Series, though I suspect it is some way down on his list with lots of competing work, finishing up Infinite Strings.


----------



## robgb

Markrs said:


> Musescore comes with a composition by Nicholas Dodds called "Searching Four". It is a really nice composition, so I thought I would compare the Musescore Sounds with Berlin Series from Staffpad and see which sounds best. Staffpad version has a brief "hiccup" in the render, sadly. I didn't adjust anything in them, mearly connected the correct instruments up.
> 
> Musescore Sounds:
> View attachment Searching Four - Musescore Sounds.mp3
> 
> 
> Staffpad Berlin Series:
> View attachment Searching Four - StaffPad Berlin Series.mp3
> 
> 
> Personally, I think both do a great job. When I listen to Staffpad and what Musescore can do, I do wonder if using sample libraries is worth the effort as it often takes so long to work the samples.
> 
> Regarding Dorico I would like to see some sample library developers look to integrate their libraries into it. I know this is something Aaron Venture is looking at for his Infinite Series, though I suspect it is some way down on his list with lots of competing work, finishing up Infinite Strings.


Wow, these notation programs have come a LONG way. Especially for one that's free.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Markrs said:


> Personally, I think both do a great job. When I listen to Staffpad and what Musescore can do, I do wonder if using sample libraries is worth the effort as it often takes so long to work the samples.


I definitely prefer the StaffPad rendition, but with some processing, the Musescore could be pretty good. The Musescore woodwinds are too loud (and they know it). I don't think that their bespoke library is ever going to compete with the Berlin series, however.

A while ago, I mostly decided that a DAW mockup wasn't worth the effort when StaffPad can do this.


----------



## Markrs

Jett Hitt said:


> I definitely prefer the StaffPad rendition, but with some processing, the Musescore could be pretty good. The Musescore woodwinds are too loud (and they know it). I don't think that their bespoke library is ever going to compete with the Berlin series, however.
> 
> A while ago, I mostly decided that a DAW mockup wasn't worth the effort when StaffPad can do this.


It is crazy that Musescore costs nothing and yet can still produce a good score and that it is still rather buggy. When you add on VST3 support including samplers and articulations and it is pretty incredible. 

Being able to use the built in sounds then either add to the score or replace parts with Sample Libraries would be amazing, plus the ability to process the sound. 

It is pretty exciting times in the Notation space. I love what Dorico is doing as well, so I picked up Elements. Not sure if I will go down the route of programming my own expression maps for it, or just wait for either Noteperformer 4 or what Aaron does with the Infinite Series to get it working with Dorico.


----------



## dcoscina

MuseScore 4 has officially launched today. Just thought folks would like to know.


----------



## sundrowned

Nice. Updated via musehub and it seems like I have to re-download the musesound orchestra which is mildly annoying.


----------



## I like music

sundrowned said:


> Nice. Updated via musehub and it seems like I have to re-download the musesound orchestra which is mildly annoying.


Annoying but potentially that download includes improvements (no idea if true or not) but if it does, then I imagine it would be worth the hassle.

EDIT: Just tried it myself. Oh, I see. Didn't realise it was a full download. Haha.


----------



## sundrowned

I like music said:


> Annoying but potentially that download includes improvements (no idea if true or not) but if it does, then I imagine it would be worth the hassle.
> 
> EDIT: Just tried it myself. Oh, I see. Didn't realise it was a full download. Haha.


Yeah it seems to download the instruments into a new folder so I ended up just uninstalling and deleting everything and starting from scratch. It's not a big problem though and they have fast enough connections.


----------



## Jett Hitt

In his announcement of the relesase on Discord, Tantacrul indicated that there were still some problems with Musehub itself. He expected these issues to be resolved in the next few days.


----------



## I like music

sundrowned said:


> Yeah it seems to download the instruments into a new folder so I ended up just uninstalling and deleting everything and starting from scratch. It's not a big problem though and they have fast enough connections.


Ah, didn't realise it downloaded them into a new folder! I'll have to keep an eye on that. I actually don't even know where the originals were downloaded.


----------



## 3DC

dcoscina said:


> MuseScore 4 has officially launched today. Just thought folks would like to know.


What about portable version?


----------



## chrisphan

When I select a measure and hit spacebar to start playback, it would only play the instrument that the measure belongs to instead of the whole score. Does this happen to anyone else?


----------



## sundrowned

I like music said:


> Ah, didn't realise it downloaded them into a new folder! I'll have to keep an eye on that. I actually don't even know where the originals were downloaded.


On the settings page of musehub there's a custom instal location option. I have it set to an external drive.


----------



## I like music

sundrowned said:


> On the last page of musehub there's a custom instal location option. I have it set to an external drive.


Ah, thank you! btw for some reason mine started to download the strings, then stopped. When I restarted Musehub it suggested that I already had the instruments downloaded. Probably what @Jett Hitt mentioned with Musehub being a bit buggy atm.


----------



## VSTHero

chrisphan said:


> When I select a measure and hit spacebar to start playback, it would only play the instrument that the measure belongs to instead of the whole score. Does this happen to anyone else?


It’s similar to Dorico in that how/what you select influences what plays back. Selected measures only play the ones selected. Clear all selections and whole score plays. Also just clocking a single note. One finicky thing is it’s really easy to select whole measure when intending to select 1 note.


----------



## dcoscina

I Revisited Spiderman music I composed in the mid-90s using MuseSounds... I love the saxes and all of the jazz inflections you can achieve. Fun!


----------



## dcoscina

A part of a larger work I've been sketching. Testing out the choir. Not bad


----------



## dcoscina

More sketching... this is from an existing piece that I expanded an intro on


----------



## joebaggan

dcoscina said:


> More sketching... this is from an existing piece that I expanded an intro on



Wow, nice work and sounds great. Am curious what your workflow is for composing that (playing each part in? ) and how long it takes you to put something like that together?

And this software and the sounds you're using are free? ( wondering why I'm paying bucks for other notation software/sounds! )


----------



## dcoscina

joebaggan said:


> Wow, nice work and sounds great. Am curious what your workflow is for composing that (playing each part in? ) and how long it takes you to put something like that together?
> 
> And this software and the sounds you're using are free? ( wondering why I'm paying bucks for other notation software/sounds! )


I step input notes either with the computer keyboard or a small MIDI controller. It's laborious but worth it. And yes, all these sounds are packaged with MuseScore 4 which is free... hard to believe.


----------



## dcoscina

I added more to it- lengthened the intro and added a couple more instruments... celesta, cimbaso, pipe organ... the kitchen sink..


----------



## dcoscina

https://musescore.com/user/40456553/scores/9403462/s/XuRJvx?share=copy_link (The Event Horizon)

JAN 4: UPDATED- link is the same. More exposition was added and the crazy aleatoric part which I had to notate for playback purposes but the spirited section will ultimately not be prescribed if ever performed by a real orchestra.


----------



## dcoscina

dcoscina said:


> The Event Horizon
> 
> JAN 4: UPDATED- link is the same. More exposition was added and the crazy aleatoric part which I had to notate for playback purposes but the spirited section will ultimately not be prescribed if ever performed by a real orchestra.


Bump. updated. See above 👆


----------



## dcoscina

Title change and a new direction. Will likely decrease updates on this as I see this work now as one for narrator and orchestra (text by Bill Shatner). I don’t wanna give too much away but I will be sure to update this in a little while here. 

MuseScore 4 w. MuseOrchestra (The Edge of Space)


----------



## Jett Hitt

dcoscina said:


> Title change and a new direction. Will likely decrease updates on this as I see this work now as one for narrator and orchestra (text by Bill Shatner). I don’t wanna give too much away but I will be sure to update this in a little while here.
> 
> MuseScore 4 w. MuseOrchestra (The Edge of Space)



This is coming along nicely!


----------



## liquidlino

dcoscina said:


> Title change and a new direction. Will likely decrease updates on this as I see this work now as one for narrator and orchestra (text by Bill Shatner). I don’t wanna give too much away but I will be sure to update this in a little while here.
> 
> MuseScore 4 w. MuseOrchestra (The Edge of Space)



Makes me wonder why I've spent all this money on orchestral samples... sounds amazing!


----------



## dcoscina

liquidlino said:


> Makes me wonder why I've spent all this money on orchestral samples... sounds amazing!


Believe me I feel the same. Updates to the muse sounds seems to be happening at least once if not more per week. Pretty amazing. I’m still not super thrilled with the brass (they either are too quiet or when loud they sound buzzy and a little less real). But the strings and winds are solid.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Because I’m endlessly working on pieces for piano and orchestra, I haven’t messed with M4 much, as the piano seems to be a real dog. Though maybe they’ve updated it. I guess I should try again. I have a feeling that I’ll move to M4 full time once they implement CC editors. I’ve been playing with BBCSO in Dorico, and the hurdles seem endless.


----------



## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> Because I’m endlessly working on pieces for piano and orchestra, I haven’t messed with M4 much, as the piano seems to be a real dog. Though maybe they’ve updated it. I guess I should try again. I have a feeling that I’ll move to M4 full time once they implement CC editors. I’ve been playing with BBCSO in Dorico, and the hurdles seem endless.


I use pianoteq 8 with MuseScore but it’s still dicey with 3rd party VSTs. Trillian works great. Kontakt based stuff not as much.


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## Jett Hitt

dcoscina said:


> I use pianoteq 8 with MuseScore but it’s still dicey with 3rd party VSTs. Trillian works great. Kontakt based stuff not as much.


I don't know what Trillian is. I did try both Kontakt and Sine, but since you can't control the CC data, there seems to be little point. How are you manipulating Pianoteq?


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## doctoremmet

Jett Hitt said:


> I don't know what Trillian is.


A plugin by Spectrasonics, makers of Omnisphere. It focuses on bass sounds.


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## dcoscina

Jett Hitt said:


> I don't know what Trillian is. I did try both Kontakt and Sine, but since you can't control the CC data, there seems to be little point. How are you manipulating Pianoteq?


MuseScore will send velocity and pedal markings to VSTs and that’s all I really need out of it for now. I might have to tweak dynamics or the mixer but I don’t feel the need to finesse things at a CC level yet I’m MS4.


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## Jett Hitt

dcoscina said:


> MuseScore will send velocity and pedal markings to VSTs and that’s all I really need out of it for now. I might have to tweak dynamics or the mixer but I don’t feel the need to finesse things at a CC level yet I’m MS4.


Ah, gotcha. I forgot that it would do velocity. That would make using a vst piano easy.


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## dcoscina

One more little revision for the time being...

https://musescore.com/user/40456553/scores/9403462/s/XuRJvx?share=copy_link (The Edge of Space- for Narrator, Chorus and Orchestra)


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