# Display Multiple CCs in Logic



## Leandro Gardini (Dec 28, 2016)

Hi all,

I am preparing some videos with programing techniques for some instruments and I want to show in real time how each CC relate to one another.
Logic does not display more than one CC at a time and step editor is not a nice visual option. 

Any idea how it can be done?


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## Saxer (Dec 28, 2016)

You can open several editors with different display options and save it as a screen set.


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## samphony (Dec 28, 2016)

Or enable automation in the tracks view (A) and set the automation from TRACK to REGION. This way you can view multiple CC for multiple tracks/regions.


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## Saxer (Dec 29, 2016)

samphony said:


> Or enable automation in the tracks view (A) and set the automation from TRACK to REGION. This way you can view multiple CC for multiple tracks/regions.


This doesn't work with midi CCs. Logic's internal automation is not midi (i.e. it has a much higher resolution). Midi controllers are only shown in midi editors.


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## samphony (Dec 29, 2016)

Saxer said:


> This doesn't work with midi CCs. Logic's internal automation is not midi (i.e. it has a much higher resolution). Midi controllers are only shown in midi editors.



If you set the automation from track to region automation it resembles the "midi draw" data from the region and therefore you can automate the cc's in the tracks view. What you edit and see is exactly the same. It was introduced around 10.1 or earlier if i am not mistaken. You can also set the midi channel per region automation lane.

Show automation curves


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## samphony (Dec 29, 2016)

you can go crazy if you want










the only caveat is you have to reopen the additional lanes if you turn off automation view.
The developers are aware of that.


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## samphony (Dec 29, 2016)

I totally support the idea of having multiple cc lanes in the pianoroll and notation editor in future LPX versions!


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## Saxer (Dec 29, 2016)

Great info, thanks!


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## Vik (Dec 29, 2016)

samphony said:


> you can go crazy if you want
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The lowermost pictures is actually a piano roll window on top of (part of) an Arrange window, isn't it?


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## Jack Weaver (Dec 29, 2016)

Hey Saxer,

Regarding your first post, how do you open up the multiple MIDI editors?
I went through all the Menus but couldn't find an option for that. I tried going to the Logic Pro Help function but couldn't find anything there either. 

Thanks,
Jack


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## samphony (Dec 29, 2016)

Vik said:


> The lowermost pictures is actually a piano roll window on top of (part of) an Arrange window, isn't it?


Correct!!!

Feel free to use the picture link for your apple feedback when describing how the multi-lane midi draw in the piano roll and score editor could look like.


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## Saxer (Dec 29, 2016)

Windows menu: open piano roll (cmd4) as often as needed. It's just a staple of piano rolls.


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## Jack Weaver (Dec 29, 2016)

Saxer, 
Thanks for the quick reply. Pretty sure cmd4 is actually MIDI Transform. 
And opening up cmd6 allows me to open multiple MIDI editors as separate windows. However, what I'm trying to do is replicate what you show in your first post with multiple lanes of MIDI Controller data below the MIDI notes within the Piano Roll. I still don't quite see how to do this.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 29, 2016)

Nothing wrong with this, for me.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 29, 2016)

Or even this, actually.


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## shnootre (Dec 29, 2016)

I am finding lots of conflicts between midi data viewed in different screens of Logic. For instance, I'll look at the expression lane in the arrange window (via midi draw), and it will show absolutely no data (I've already discovered that the tracks have to be of a certain height before they show the midi draw data). Then when I look in piano roll, I'll see all kinds of data there. It's not just a question of not showing me - sometimes I'll see a single static value in the arrange window, say 86, whereas when I look in piano roll I'll see curves all over the place. I experience similar conflicts between the same data viewed in piano roll vs. the step editor. I'm coming to the end of my first project in Logic and seriously wondering if Cubase isn't a path I should pursue. Does anyone else experience this bugginess? (I am open to the possibility that this is serious user error/ignorance on my part, of course!)


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## Ashermusic (Dec 29, 2016)

shnootre said:


> I am finding lots of conflicts between midi data viewed in different screens of Logic. For instance, I'll look at the expression lane in the arrange window (via midi draw), and it will show absolutely no data (I've already discovered that the tracks have to be of a certain height before they show the midi draw data). Then when I look in piano roll, I'll see all kinds of data there. It's not just a question of not showing me - sometimes I'll see a single static value in the arrange window, say 86, whereas when I look in piano roll I'll see curves all over the place. I experience similar conflicts between the same data viewed in piano roll vs. the step editor. I'm coming to the end of my first project in Logic and seriously wondering if Cubase isn't a path I should pursue. Does anyone else experience this bugginess? (I am open to the possibility that this is serious user error/ignorance on my part, of course!)



Never seen that here.


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## Vik (Dec 29, 2016)

Well, Jay - the upper one is from the Arrange window, the lower one is from the Step edit window. Personally (and in my experience, this is true for most Logic users working with virtual instruments) I prefer to work mainly in the score and piano roll editors, and neither of these offer multiple lanes for Modulation, Expression etc. Why? Have no idea. Corporate stubbornness maybe?


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## Ashermusic (Dec 29, 2016)

Vik said:


> Well, Jay - the upper one is from the Arrange window, the lower one is from the Step edit window. Personally (and in my experience, this is true for most Logic users working with virtual instruments) I prefer to work mainly in the score and piano roll editors, and neither of these offer multiple lanes for Modulation, Expression etc. Why? Have no idea. Corporate stubbornness maybe?



My only answer is what it always is: to implement takes time and they do not have sufficient demand for it to warrant the time, or implementing it screws up something more important. No developer wants to displease their users.

And as I always say, presumably, we are smarter than software, so it is more logical to adapt our workflow to the best way for the software than expect it to adapt to us. Or choose other software.

And btw, it is no longer the "Arrange window."


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## Vik (Dec 29, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> My only answer is what it always is: to implement takes time and they do not have sufficient demand for it to warrant the time, or implementing it screws up something more important. No developer wants to displease their users.
> 
> And as I always say, presumably, we are smarter than software, so it is more logical to adapt our workflow to the best way for the software than expect it to adapt to us. Or choose other software.


Yet, in every major version Apple introduces changes and improvements. Maybe your "answer" is correct - and that they don't have sufficient demand for multiple lanes, or that that implementing it would screw up some thing else (which I seriously doubt). So there's at least one more possible "answer": multiple lanes in score and piano roll simply isn't implemented yet. And the existence of threads like this could influence that.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 29, 2016)

Vik said:


> Yet, in every major version Apple introduces changes and improvements. Maybe your "answer" is correct - and that they don't have sufficient demand for multiple lanes, or that that implementing it would screw up some thing else (which I seriously doubt). So there's at least one more possible "answer": multiple lanes in score and piano roll simply isn't implemented yet. And the existence of threads like this could influence that.



Without violating my NDA, I can only tell you that I can communicate with them daily if I choose, and they are aware that many would like this feature.


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## Vik (Dec 29, 2016)

Fair enough, that feature has been mentioned in a number of Logic threads in various forums, so they should know that many users want it. I just think that indicating that people could choose another software or that it's too complicated to implement or that we simply should adapt our workflow to the limitations Logic has is counterproductive; it may only keep people from suggesting that improvement - which isn't good idea if what really is needed in order to get them to implement this actually is the opposite; that users _are_ vocal about that limitation.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 29, 2016)

Vik said:


> Fair enough, that feature has been mentioned in a number of Logic threads in various forums, so they should know that many users want it. I just think that indicating that people could choose another software or that it's too complicated to implement or that we simply should adapt our workflow to the limitations Logic has is counterproductive; it may only keep people from suggesting that improvement - which isn't good idea if what really is needed in order to get them to implement this actually is the opposite; that users _are_ vocal about that limitation.



They _know_, they know. Contrary to popular culture mythology, you cannot nag people into doing what they cannot or for whatever reason will not do. 

Terribly outdated view, I know


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## Vik (Dec 29, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> They _know_, they know. Contrary to popular culture mythology, you cannot nag people into doing what they cannot or for whatever reason will not do.


Of course not. But there's an area between "nagging" people and eg suggesting that they should consider some other software (if they want a feature in Logic which isn't there already).


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## Ashermusic (Dec 29, 2016)

Vik said:


> Of course not. But there's an area between "nagging" people and eg suggesting that they should consider some other software (if they want a feature in Logic which isn't there already).



Whatever, people will do what they will do. I am not on Apple's payroll. I help those who want to work with Logic Pro to find the most efficient way to use it that suits them. If they choose instead to get aggravated about what they deem missing but do not go to another app, I cannot really get emotionally involved with it.


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## Saxer (Dec 29, 2016)

Jack Weaver said:


> ...how do you open up the multiple MIDI editors?
> I went through all the Menus but couldn't find an option for that. I tried going to the Logic Pro Help function but couldn't find anything there either.


What you see in my image is just a separate piano roll window and a second one overlapping the upper half of it. You can arrange the windows as you like on the screen and save it all as a screen set. That's all I did.


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## mc_deli (Dec 30, 2016)

shnootre said:


> I am finding lots of conflicts between midi data viewed in different screens of Logic. For instance, I'll look at the expression lane in the arrange window (via midi draw), and it will show absolutely no data (I've already discovered that the tracks have to be of a certain height before they show the midi draw data). Then when I look in piano roll, I'll see all kinds of data there. It's not just a question of not showing me - sometimes I'll see a single static value in the arrange window, say 86, whereas when I look in piano roll I'll see curves all over the place. I experience similar conflicts between the same data viewed in piano roll vs. the step editor. I'm coming to the end of my first project in Logic and seriously wondering if Cubase isn't a path I should pursue. Does anyone else experience this bugginess? (I am open to the possibility that this is serious user error/ignorance on my part, of course!)


Is it possible you are looking at region data vs track data?


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## IFM (Dec 30, 2016)

Hmm why I never thought about opening multiple editors as a screen set! I really need MOD/EXPRESSION all the time. The only issue I see is LPX seems to lose connection of what track you select and the data on the editors won't update without re-selecting the link button.


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## resonate (Dec 31, 2016)

I have slightly different but somehow related question: Is there a way to re-record CC automation on the track that already has one without the previous one going haywire? When i try to do that, the data gets merged and looks (and sounds) nasty. Working with hardware fader the only way i found is to have a separate copy of the track assigned to the same object (e.g. Kontakt) that only houses CC data.


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## Jack Weaver (Dec 31, 2016)

resonate said:


> Is there a way to re-record CC automation on the track that already has one without the previous one going haywire? When i try to do that, the data gets merged and looks (and sounds) nasty.



+1!

.


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## Saxer (Jan 1, 2017)

IFM said:


> Hmm why I never thought about opening multiple editors as a screen set! I really need MOD/EXPRESSION all the time. The only issue I see is LPX seems to lose connection of what track you select and the data on the editors won't update without re-selecting the link button.


When the editors link button (chain symbol) is yellow you always see the selected region(s) in the editor. The setting of the chain symbols (black/violet/yellow) are stored with the screen set. I never have to re-select something here.


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## Saxer (Jan 1, 2017)

resonate said:


> I have slightly different but somehow related question: Is there a way to re-record CC automation on the track that already has one without the previous one going haywire? When i try to do that, the data gets merged and looks (and sounds) nasty. Working with hardware fader the only way i found is to have a separate copy of the track assigned to the same object (e.g. Kontakt) that only houses CC data.


I just delete the CC data before recording new ones. There are key commands for selecting 'same events' and 'similar events'. Same event means: all CC-data with the same midi channel, number and value are selected. Similar event means: all CC-date with the same midi channel and number are selected (all values). That's the way to go.
I have an event list editor open on all of my screen sets. To delete mod-wheel CCs I click on a single CC1 event in the list editor, press my key command for 'select similar events' and delete them. Takes me two seconds and all CC1-events of that region are gone.
Another possibility would be the midi transform window where you can make your own transform settings. One of them could be: delete all CC1.


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## IFM (Jan 1, 2017)

Saxer said:


> When the editors link button (chain symbol) is yellow you always see the selected region(s) in the editor. The setting of the chain symbols (black/violet/yellow) are stored with the screen set. I never have to re-select something here.


It has been inconsistent for me for a long time...several versions and I've seen others report this too. I don't know why but it does get worse as the project gets bigger.


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## Heinigoldstein (Jan 1, 2017)

Saxer said:


> What you see in my image is just a separate piano roll window and a second one overlapping the upper half of it. You can arrange the windows as you like on the screen and save it all as a screen set. That's all I did.



Multiple piano rolls with different CC lanes is a nice work around, but it always becomes confusing to me, when zooming in and out in one of them. Do I miss a way to sync multiple windows for zooming ?


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## Heinigoldstein (Jan 1, 2017)

IFM said:


> It has been inconsistent for me for a long time...several versions and I've seen others report this too. I don't know why but it does get worse as the project gets bigger.


 
It happens to me every now and then too, that an editor (usually the score editor) refuses to show cc data. Most of the time it´s because it changes the midi channel that´s viewed by its own. And yes, it it appears when a project is getting bigger.


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## Vik (Jan 1, 2017)

I hope you are reporting these inconsistencies and wishes to Apple:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html


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## playz123 (Jan 1, 2017)

I am finding this thread of interest for a number of reasons...even though I don't use Logic. The first reason is that is about to change in awhile, due to a collaborative project coming up this year. Looks like I will have to learn and use Logic for that reason. The second reason is it's always informative to compare two major DAWs like Logic and the one I use, Cubase. Seems Cubase is much more intuitive in this instance, and controller lanes are a breeze to create and utilize. What I'm not sure of is in which program it's easier to draw in the CC curves. Logic has often appeared to me to be better suited for that than Cubase, but what do I know.  In any case, I think I follow what Logic users have to do re. controller lanes, but it does seem a bit awkward if I'm understanding correctly.


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## clisma (Jan 1, 2017)

As a current Logic user (as well as DP), and former Cubase user, I think Cubase handles MIDI, especially dealing with/drawing CCs very elegantly. So much so that I wish the other DAWs would implement the workflow.


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## samphony (Jan 1, 2017)

resonate said:


> I have slightly different but somehow related question: Is there a way to re-record CC automation on the track that already has one without the previous one going haywire? When i try to do that, the data gets merged and looks (and sounds) nasty. Working with hardware fader the only way i found is to have a separate copy of the track assigned to the same object (e.g. Kontakt) that only houses CC data.



As a workaround In such cases I suggest to "create new track with same instrument" to record your cc data on a separate track pointing to the same object (instrument). This way you can delete the midi region or enable replace mode and record the new cc movement while the old controller data gets deleted.


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## Leandro Gardini (Jan 4, 2017)

Thank you everyone for the valuable input.
I have finally made the videos the way I wanted to.
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/the-wonderful-serenade-iii-solo-strings.58774/


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## Soundhound (Jan 4, 2017)

I do this from time to time and always wondered is there a way to replicate the controller lanes from track to track? Would be great for frequently used configurations (mod, expression, vibrato... etc). Duplicating a track doesn't





samphony said:


> If you set the automation from track to region automation it resembles the "midi draw" data from the region and therefore you can automate the cc's in the tracks view. What you edit and see is exactly the same. It was introduced around 10.1 or earlier if i am not mistaken. You can also set the midi channel per region automation lane.
> 
> Show automation curves


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## IFM (Jan 5, 2017)

clisma said:


> As a current Logic user (as well as DP), and former Cubase user, I think Cubase handles MIDI, especially dealing with/drawing CCs very elegantly. So much so that I wish the other DAWs would implement the workflow.


It's not the CC data but the entire track. I'm working on a piece now and it has happened a couple times so far. All that happens is I select another part in the arrangement window and the editor either blanks out or stays on the previous track and won't change until I deselect and reselect the yellow link button. Bear in mind I use a separate window for editing (2 monitors) and not the lower display in the arrangement.


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## Heinigoldstein (Jan 5, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> I do this from time to time and always wondered is there a way to replicate the controller lanes from track to track? Would be great for frequently used configurations (mod, expression, vibrato... etc). Duplicating a track doesn't



The track detects the cc lines from the cc data of a region. I copy a template region to the beginning of the track with only the cc data I want to see and voila !


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## Soundhound (Jan 5, 2017)

Aha! Genius. Many thanks!



Heinigoldstein said:


> The track detects the cc lines from the cc data of a region. I copy a template region to the beginning of the track with only the cc data I want to see and voila !


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## molemac (Mar 29, 2017)

Saxer said:


> You can open several editors with different display options and save it as a screen set.


How do you deal with overlapping windows when you click on a lower cc piano roll i.e. if you have a lot of cc lanes each time you select one you need to then click on all the other windows to get back to the original tidy view ( or do you have to reselect the screenset each time, I tried that and it didn't remember the overlaps ). and also how do you link the zoom levels


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## Saxer (Mar 29, 2017)

molemac said:


> How do you deal with overlapping windows when you click on a lower cc piano roll i.e. if you have a lot of cc lanes each time you select one you need to then click on all the other windows to get back to the original tidy view ( or do you have to reselect the screenset each time, I tried that and it didn't remember the overlaps ). and also how do you link the zoom levels


The screenset has to be locked (little dot beside the screenset number) so you can recall it like you saved it. But yes, a native solution within a single window would be a much better solution. It's just a walkaround.


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## molemac (Apr 1, 2017)

Saxer said:


> The screenset has to be locked (little dot beside the screenset number) so you can recall it like you saved it. But yes, a native solution within a single window would be a much better solution. It's just a walkaround.


yes , I have played around and decided its not worth the aggro ( fine with 2 or 3 pianoroll windows open but after that gets messy. Locking would not remember which window you want on top and the delay waiting for all the windows to open even on trashcan is also frustrating.
Will stick with scrolling through the ccs for now or using the region Automation feature on the arrange page. So annoying that such a simple and often asked for feature is taking so long to reach logic. Would stop me toying with cubase every so often.


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