# Buying new studio monitors! Confused with choices!



## IoannisGutevas (Sep 4, 2019)

Hello everyone,

Time has come to buy some new studio monitors. I'm using the Behringer Truth B1031A for almost 7 years now and I feel an upgrade is necessary.

After a lot of researching and talking with friends and considering my budget, I got hyped for the Adam A77X monitors. I was almost ready to buy them when we got in a long talk with the salesperson who suggested me the Focal Solo 6 Be which are at almost at the same price as the Adam ones.

My budget is at the Adam A77X price which is currently at 900 euros apiece in Greece.

The room I am having is relatively small (the typical composers cave).

I ended up buying nothing yet and thought to research the matter a bit more. Adam A77X have great reviews everywhere I looked. Focal Solo 6 Be don't have so many reviews as the Adam ones but even from the few ones, I found the verdict is that are great monitors.

The option to go to a store and hear them both and make a decision is impossible.

So I am confused. Here are my questions:

If you had to pick one of the 2 suggested monitors which one would you pick?

If you don't like any of those 2 monitors and you have a suggestion of some other pair that are in my budget money which one you suggest me to buy?

Thank you for your time


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## Jdiggity1 (Sep 4, 2019)

I don't own either of them, but since you asked, I'd pick the Focals. Partly due to the impression other Focal monitors have made on me, and also I feel like they would work better in a small room than the A77X.


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## jtnyc (Sep 4, 2019)

I can't speak to the Adams, but a friend has a pair of the Solo 6's and they sound amazing to me.


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## bengoss (Sep 4, 2019)

I have them both! Not satisfied with them. They are totally different. Adam has huge sub bass then a dip in the mids and open high end. Focals are more on the mids and great high end, you should definitely consider a sub with them. Definitely more transparent than the Adams. Also room has a huge impact on both. Good luck.
B


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## IoannisGutevas (Sep 5, 2019)

Thank you for your suggestions! 

@bengoss Since you have them both, are Focals more detailed than the Adams? I would imagine that the Adams being a 3-way monitor would give more detail than the Focals. I am planning if I get the Focals to get a sub maybe next year if all goes well. 

You said you are not satisfied with either for different reasons. Which ones would you suggest at that price range?


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## holywilly (Sep 5, 2019)

PSI A-14M if you want to invest in monitors. It’s quite expensive, however it’s totally worth it!

Else, Focal might be a better choice than Adam.


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## IoannisGutevas (Sep 5, 2019)

holywilly said:


> PSI A-14M if you want to invest in monitors. It’s quite expensive, however it’s totally worth it!



Are those the ones you are suggesting: https://www.thomann.de/gb/psi_audio_active_14m_studio_red.htm ?

I never heard of them before, to be honest. They seem a little more expensive than the Focals but not by much. I will consider them and look for a few reviews for them too.

Thank you for your suggestion!


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## Prockamanisc (Sep 5, 2019)

I would check out the Barefoot Footprint 01. It eliminates the need for a subwoofer, and it 's from one of the best companies happening currently. It's a bit above your budget, but worth it if you can wait and save up a bit more.


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## gsilbers (Sep 5, 2019)

i have the focals solo. i like them. one thing to consider is what would happen if 2 years from now one of the speakers would break. where would you take them or return , warranty etc.


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## gsilbers (Sep 5, 2019)

also, why considering the adam 77 vs the focal solo6? shouldnt it be the focals twins vs the a77 and the focal solo vs the adam a7x or a8x? im guessing cuz of price?


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## bengoss (Sep 5, 2019)

IoannisGutevas said:


> Thank you for your suggestions!
> 
> @bengoss Since you have them both, are Focals more detailed than the Adams? I would imagine that the Adams being a 3-way monitor would give more detail than the Focals. I am planning if I get the Focals to get a sub maybe next year if all goes well.
> 
> You said you are not satisfied with either for different reasons. Which ones would you suggest at that price range?


Yes, the focals are more detailed then the Adams. More in your face, on the other side the Adams have more 3D depth. If I choose from these two I would go with the focals because for me they are more transparent. 
I haven’t been shopping for monitors some time now but I think you have a lot of options for that budget. Maybe Dynaudio or Genelec. I’ve seen a lot of composers working on Dynaudio. 
At the end I would say the most important is your room. Every speaker sounds different in a different room. 
I had less problems and more transparent mixes when using cheap maudio bx5a. 
Good luck,
B


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## kgdrum (Sep 5, 2019)

If at all possible ask the salesperson or a colleague that have these if you can try them out in your room for a few days.
IMO the room and proper placement is a significant part of the equation on how a monitor sounds.
The other variables are the taste,ears and expectations of the user.

Case in point I was able to demo both the Focal Solo 6 and the Focal Twin 6 each for a couple of weeks.
In my room,with my ears my taste or lack of taste,expectations etc... I did not like the Solo 6,they just didn't do it for me.
OTOH I loved how the Twin 6's sounded and I'm still using them 10 or 11 years later.

A proper choice of monitors are way too complex to listen to a salesman or an anonymous post or even a well known user in a forum and hope for the best.
Even if you have to pay a little more from another dealer please try to find one that will let you use them in your space.


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## IoannisGutevas (Sep 5, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> I would check out the Barefoot Footprint 01. It eliminates the need for a subwoofer, and it 's from one of the best companies happening currently. It's a bit above your budget, but worth it if you can wait and save up a bit more.



Will check that too but from a quick search I can't find those monitors in greek stores. They are way out of my budget though but they seem very nice!



gsilbers said:


> also, why considering the adam 77 vs the focal solo6? shouldnt it be the focals twins vs the a77 and the focal solo vs the adam a7x or a8x? im guessing cuz of price?



Yep, that's the reason that I am considering only what I can find in greek stores are the warranty and the ease of replacement in case something goes wrong. 

Also, yes price-wise the twins are out of my reach for now but I found them as a B-Stock on the store at a very nice reduced price! Now I am considering them too! Thanks for bringing them to my attention too! They seem a VERY nice pair! 



bengoss said:


> Yes, the focals are more detailed then the Adams. More in your face, on the other side the Adams have more 3D depth. If I choose from these two I would go with the focals because for me they are more transparent.
> I haven’t been shopping for monitors some time now but I think you have a lot of options for that budget. Maybe Dynaudio or Genelec. I’ve seen a lot of composers working on Dynaudio.
> At the end I would say the most important is your room. Every speaker sounds different in a different room.
> I had less problems and more transparent mixes when using cheap maudio bx5a.
> ...



I've heard great things about Genelec but something doesn't sit quite right with me for them. I will check Dynaudio though!


kgdrum said:


> If at all possible ask the salesperson or a colleague that have these if you can try them out in your room for a few days.
> IMO the room and proper placement is a significant part of the equation on how a monitor sounds.
> The other variables are the taste,ears and expectations of the user.
> 
> ...



Well, that would be the dream, finding a way to test them in my room but that's impossible. That's why I am searching for every bit of info that I can online and setting budget that's not too low or too high. 

Like I said I have found the Twins at a very good price as a B-Stock from a store and I'm considering them too now. They seem really good! Although I am a bit hesitant to buy them cause it's a B-Stock, the store gives 2 years warranty and they are almost brand new.

I found the Focal Twins for a very nice price and I'm considering them too. What is your opinion on them?


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## jtnyc (Sep 5, 2019)

I’ve been using Dynadio BM5a’s for years and love them. I also have a pair of Avantone mix cubes. Dynaudios new LYD line look really nice although I haven’t heard them yet. Maybe worth a look.


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## kgdrum (Sep 5, 2019)

I’ve been using the Twin 6 monitors for I think 11 years, for me they’re great!


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## gh0stwrit3r (Sep 5, 2019)

Don’t have any of them you suggested, but I do love my Genelec monitors a lot! They sound great. And they give (in my humble opinion) a true sound. Shouldn’t be a problem with your budget.

So my advice: find a store, bring some of your own sounds/music/pink noise that you know by heart and just listen to it on the monitors. And trust your ears, not a sales person. And don’t bother too much about the brand


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## Soundlex (Sep 5, 2019)

Amphion, Amphion, Amphion and Amphion.


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## holywilly (Sep 5, 2019)

IoannisGutevas said:


> Are those the ones you are suggesting: https://www.thomann.de/gb/psi_audio_active_14m_studio_red.htm ?
> 
> I never heard of them before, to be honest. They seem a little more expensive than the Focals but not by much. I will consider them and look for a few reviews for them too.
> 
> Thank you for your suggestion!


Yes, that’s the one!

We have Adam, Genelec, and 2 pairs of PSI in the studio and PSI definitely sounds more accurate, very balance sound with ultra high definition.

Also depending on what type of music you are producing, PSI serves us well from dubstep to pure orchestral music.


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## clisma (Sep 5, 2019)

A couple of considerations, regardless of what you end up purchasing @IoannisGutevas :

- when I moved to 3-way speakers, suddenly the mid-range opened up very nicely, allowing me to hear more detail and help my mixes translate better

- different monitors will work better for different styles, unless you go through the care of purposely purchasing as neutral a monitor as you can find (i.e. pure Orchestral music won’t suffer much if your speakers don’t reach down to 35Hz, but styles like Hip-Hop obviously might)

- before purchasing a Subwoofer, do consider the size of your room: if it’s to small you might be doing more damage than good. Which is why investing in the proper speaker now could largely mitigate the need for a Sub in the near future.

- similarly, if you purchase a speaker that is to powerful without a room that is able to accommodate that power (read, size), you might again make more trouble. Maybe leave some room in the budget to treat your space. It makes THE most difference. Or consider a smaller speaker.

Personally, I have experience with the Focals and the ADAMS, and they all sound grand. The Focals do especially well in the mid-range. Lots of separation, easy to mix on, no fatigue whatsoever in the high frequencies. Having said that, I’d take a 3-way over a 2-way, but the ADAMS sound a bit harsh to me, but I agree with the term used above, 3D.

If you can find them in wonderful Hellas, have a look at Neumann also. They make an amazing range of speakers that are quite neutral and translate well.


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## kgdrum (Sep 5, 2019)

[QUOTE="IoannisGutevas, post:


Like I said I have found the Twins at a very good price as a B-Stock from a store and I'm considering them too now. They seem really good! Although I am a bit hesitant to buy them cause it's a B-Stock, the store gives 2 years warranty and they are almost brand new.

I found the Focal Twins for a very nice price and I'm considering them too. What is your opinion on them?
[/QUOTE]


If it's a reputable store/dealer and they're almost brand new with a full 2 year warranty I wouldn't worry about B-stock.
The funny thing about Focals(I used to sell them) They take about 200-300 hours to "breakin" and sound the way they will sound.
It's possible the original buyer bought them,tried them for a few hours,thought they sounded weird and returned them.
Back in my sale days I sold Focals Hifi line,the better speakers ranging $10,000 to $180,000 per pair(yes crazy insane price points).To make a long story short when we got one of the better speakers we would break them in a locked room(so customers couldn't hear them before the speakers were "broken-in") They'd start to sound OK after 100 hours,good after 200 hours and GREAT! around 250-300 hours.
It's very possible the original buyer didn't know this and returned them.
Having a working relationship with Focal at the time gave me the opportunity to have time to consult/evaluate and "break-in" the Focal Pro line in my space when Focal 1st introduced their Pro studio monitor line.

*edit* I totally agree with Clisma if you're in a small room I'd probably avoid a sub,more often than not it will cause more problems.


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## Greg (Sep 5, 2019)

Focals 100%. I had the Adams and upgraded to the Focal Trio 6. Adams sound good for listening but for critical mixing is where I think they fall way short. I seriously could not believe how much more clarity and separation between frequencies the Focals gave me. For orchestral stuff they make it really easy to get that top end brightness just right on strings & winds. 

Just be aware that the Focals will take quite some time to get used to coming from Adams!


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## shawnsingh (Sep 5, 2019)

Greg said:


> Just be aware that the Focals will take quite some time to get used to coming from Adams!



Is there a significant difference in "brightness" between Focal Trio 6 and (which Adams did you have?)?


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## IoannisGutevas (Sep 6, 2019)

jtnyc said:


> I’ve been using Dynadio BM5a’s for years and love them. I also have a pair of Avantone mix cubes. Dynaudios new LYD line look really nice although I haven’t heard them yet. Maybe worth a look.



Will look at Dynaudio too, I haven't heard them before but they are available in Greece so I will check them. I saw the mixcubes but they seem to me like they are an additional tool when you already have a pair of great monitors already. So that luxury will have to wait unfortunately till I solve the "good monitors" issue :( 



kgdrum said:


> I’ve been using the Twin 6 monitors for I think 11 years, for me they’re great!



To be honest, the more I see them the more I like them too! I called today and asked the reason why they are in B-Stock and how much time of warranty I will get if I end up buying them. I am waiting for their response and I hope I will get a good one 



gh0stwrit3r said:


> Don’t have any of them you suggested, but I do love my Genelec monitors a lot! They sound great. And they give (in my humble opinion) a true sound. Shouldn’t be a problem with your budget.
> 
> So my advice: find a store, bring some of your own sounds/music/pink noise that you know by heart and just listen to it on the monitors. And trust your ears, not a sales person. And don’t bother too much about the brand



A good friend of mine has the Genelecs too and he says that they are amazing. But I don't know why I don't like them. I don't have a valid reason behind it, but something behind their design just don't sit well with me. I will look more into them though. 
Unfortunately, where I live makes it impossible to visit my friend to listen to the Genelecs or go to a store and try out different monitors with my own sounds. If that was a choice I had I wouldn't even be creating this thread asking people and trying to make a somewhat educated verdict based on other people's experience and opinion.



Soundlex said:


> Amphion, Amphion, Amphion and Amphion.



Never heard of that brand and I can't find them on any Greek stores, unfortunately, so I will have to pass on those :(


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## IoannisGutevas (Sep 6, 2019)

holywilly said:


> Yes, that’s the one!
> 
> We have Adam, Genelec, and 2 pairs of PSI in the studio and PSI definitely sounds more accurate, very balance sound with ultra high definition.
> 
> Also depending on what type of music you are producing, PSI serves us well from dubstep to pure orchestral music.



Unfortunately, after searching I can't find them on Greek stores so I will have to pass on those too :( Thank you though for your suggestion! 



clisma said:


> A couple of considerations, regardless of what you end up purchasing @IoannisGutevas :
> 
> - when I moved to 3-way speakers, suddenly the mid-range opened up very nicely, allowing me to hear more detail and help my mixes translate better
> 
> ...



Excellent advice and thank you for your time! I have a different budget on buying acoustic treatment for my room. That order has been placed and I am waiting to receive them. Everything from acoustic panels to bass traps and diffusers. 
The room is relatively small but I am not considering to buy a sub anytime soon atm. I don't have the money for it and yes, the fear of making things worse is keeping me from even considering on buying one, at least for now.
I have never worked or listened to a 3-way monitor before but for now at least what Iam looking for in a studio monitor is providing me with as much detail as possible. I have found the Focal Twins 6 Be as a B-Stock on a store at a great price and I am seriously considering buying them cause the way I see it, I get the best of both worlds, the 3-way 3D space provided by Adams and the detail in sound provided by Focals.
So If I get a good warranty and good reasoning why they are on B-Stock I will buy those I think.
The Neumanns I can find here are either below my budget (the KH 120 ones) or way above my budget (the KH 310 ones), so although the brand must be excellent my budget is kinda low to get the good ones :(
You are one of the few that pronounces the place Iam from almost correctly! I hate the name Greece, it's insulting but I have to use it so people understand what I am saying.. Hellas isn't quite right either, it's Ellas (english language tends to put a useless H in front of words for no reason sometimes ^^).
Quick rant about the name: El is an ancient word of the sun and las is the word of the rock/stone. So the name put together is the Sunny Rock  



kgdrum said:


> If it's a reputable store/dealer and they're almost brand new with a full 2 year warranty I wouldn't worry about B-stock.
> The funny thing about Focals(I used to sell them) They take about 200-300 hours to "breakin" and sound the way they will sound.
> It's possible the original buyer bought them,tried them for a few hours,thought they sounded weird and returned them.
> Back in my sale days I sold Focals Hifi line,the better speakers ranging $10,000 to $180,000 per pair(yes crazy insane price points).To make a long story short when we got one of the better speakers we would break them in a locked room(so customers couldn't hear them before the speakers were "broken-in") They'd start to sound OK after 100 hours,good after 200 hours and GREAT! around 250-300 hours.
> ...



It's one of the biggest stores in Greece. I called them today and asked why they are on B-Stock and how much time will they give me in warranty. I am still waiting for an answer. I keep my fingers crossed to be a good display model or something that was returned shortly after the buy at least 
No matter which ones I will buy (I am leaning on Focals after so many comments voting for them) I will keep that in mind and not be frustrated and angry when I put them in and listen to them for the first time!



Greg said:


> Focals 100%. I had the Adams and upgraded to the Focal Trio 6. Adams sound good for listening but for critical mixing is where I think they fall way short. I seriously could not believe how much more clarity and separation between frequencies the Focals gave me. For orchestral stuff they make it really easy to get that top end brightness just right on strings & winds.
> 
> Just be aware that the Focals will take quite some time to get used to coming from Adams!



Focal Trio 6 seem so good.. I wish I had the money for them! Critical mixing and listening to details is what I am after and from what I am reading Focals provide that. Hope I get a good deal for the Twin 6 Be ones!


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## clisma (Sep 6, 2019)

IoannisGutevas said:


> Hellas isn't quite right either, it's Ellas (english language tends to put a useless H in front of words for no reason sometimes ^^).
> Quick rant about the name: El is an ancient word of the sun and las is the word of the rock/stone. So the name put together is the Sunny Rock


I enjoyed this very much! Thanks for the explanation and for setting me straight. 

For the rest, I think you’re on a great path, having considered your room, acoustic treatment, and now diligently going after the “right” speaker. The ones you have in your sight are both very good indeed and I’m certain you will be pleased either way. If you can and if you find them to be in good enough shape, do go for the Twins of course. Best of luck, curious to know what happens.


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## Medienhexer (Sep 7, 2019)

I have the Adam F7, which to me sound very similar to the A7X. I really like how easy it is to hear some details in the mid and high frequencies.

My room is treated to professional standards.

That being said, only after correcting the speakers‘ frequency response with Sonarworks, I‘m now able to rely on what I hear during mixdown without cross-checking on several other speakers.

I listened to the twin be in a studio and the sound/frequency balance and representation of dynamics was almost identical to listening with the Beyerdynamic DT880 headphones. Good details but not neutral if that’s what you’re after.

My next speakers will be Neumanns. I found the 120s to be very revealing. The high mids and highs appear a little too up front at first, but after a few minutes you can hear an incredible amount of details in respect to reverb, stereo field, modulation effects and subtle things like vocal delays, etc. Also, you can easily spot the difference between real strings and synthetic sounding strings.

The 300s seem even more interesting because of the closed cabinet. Almost all speakers are ported or have passive membranes which all smear low frequency information. The 300s have an extended bass range despite being a closed system.


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## muk (Sep 8, 2019)

There are a few monitors with a very good reputation at your pricepoint: Psi A14-M, Neumann KH 120, Amphion One15 (these being passive, add the cost for an amp), Geithain RL906 if you can stretch your budget a little or are ok with buying used, Dynaudio LYD-48, Genelec... If I were you I would go to stores and listen to as many of these as you can. Then make a list with your favourite 2 or 3 pairs, and listen to them in your studio.


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## clisma (Sep 8, 2019)

Medienhexer said:


> The 300s seem even more interesting because of the closed cabinet. Almost all speakers are ported or have passive membranes which all smear low frequency information. The 300s have an extended bass range despite being a closed system.


Working on the KH310s here for the past 5 years. I can confirm everything you said. Revealing, yet neutral, plenty of bass for my requirements (down to 35Hz) and a very forgiving, wide stereo field. In short, absolutely worth the money, even used if you’re lucky enough to find them.


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## steveo42 (Sep 8, 2019)

I know it sounds old, but you really have to listen for yourself. Even if you can't find the exact models you are looking for, listen to other models by the same manufacturer to get an idea how they balance the tone in their monitors. So for example, IMHO, Dynaudio, at least for the BM series has a subdued, soft mid range compared to say Focal or Adam which are more in your face regarding mid range. Some like that, others don't. There is no right or wrong.. Take a key with your favorite tunes and head to the best store you can find and go listen. Again, don't be too concerned with models, unless of course the store happens to have them all in which case you have hit the mother load.. lol .. Focus on the manufacturers and narrow it down to one you like and then choose the model in your price range...


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## rgames (Sep 8, 2019)

My standard two cents on monitors: make sure you pay attention to "different" vs "better". To my ears, a $500 monitor (usually) sounds *both* better and different than a $200 monitor. Once you get over $500, though, I can still hear "different" but not "better".

Furthermore, remember that nobody else is going to hear your music like you do. So the specific monitors don't really matter, it's how you calibrate your ear to them that matters.

Adapt your spending accordingly.

rgames


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## AlexRuger (Sep 8, 2019)

I love Adams, I love horizontal monitors, but I wouldn't buy the A77X's. The Focals are nice but IMO sugar coat the high end a bit. 

I doubt you'll find better monitors for the price point than a pair of used Adam S3A's. They're easily my favorite monitors without spending an absurd amount of cash.


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## jononotbono (Sep 9, 2019)

I’ve recently been listening to music through a 5.1 set up with PMC speakers. Easily the greatest audio quality I have ever heard.


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## dgburns (Sep 9, 2019)

I have Focal twin 6’s. They are smiley faced eq wise, a bit less forward in the mids, and the highs can get harsh, stiff if you aren’t careful. But they track volume well, and with a subwoofer, can get you there.
They don’t reveal the room tones in recordings as well as the Genelecs do. I think I like them better then Adams. Those ribbon high freq drivers in the Adams just sound mushy to me, sweet but mushy. I just feel like that sound just doesn’t translate to the consumer speaker (silk dome tweeter types).

I want Dynaudios. The three way ones. The big ones.

But in truth, the Behringer studio moniters aren’t all that bad. Maybe missing the laser sharp detail of the Focals, but they push out a real good approximation of the sound, and I’d mix on them if I really had too, provided they were room corrected.

Isn’t sound a funny thing?


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## AlexRuger (Sep 9, 2019)

dgburns said:


> I want Dynaudios. The three way ones. The big ones.



Air 25's?


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## dgburns (Sep 10, 2019)

AlexRuger said:


> Air 25's?



Yes, but I suspect they are too big for my room


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## Kaufmanmoon (Sep 10, 2019)

Nearly everyone here recommending monitors. I'd rather spending £800 on treatment of my room and £200 on monitors than the other way around. I'd just to laugh this off until I put treatment up in my room and heard my cheap Tannoy's sounding like completely different speakers after. I upgraded to focals later on but treatment before monitors is the best lesson i've evert learnt. I know it's cliche, but it's the truth. Sonarworks helped massively me too.


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## clisma (Sep 10, 2019)

Kaufmanmoon said:


> Nearly everyone here recommending monitors. I'd rather spending £800 on treatment of my room and £200 on monitors than the other way around. I'd just to laugh this off until I put treatment up in my room and heard my cheap Tannoy's sounding like completely different speakers after. I upgraded to focals later on but treatment before monitors is the best lesson i've evert learnt. I know it's cliche, but it's the truth. Sonarworks helped massively me too.


You are right of course. But this has been mentioned above, and the OP has said he has a separate budget for acoustic treatment available.


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## AlexRuger (Sep 10, 2019)

dgburns said:


> Yes, but I suspect they are too big for my room


And also discontinued and insanely expensive used :(

They’re amazing monitors. We had them at Junkie’s and I fell in love every time I heard them. But yes, unless your room is as big as his, I’d avoid them. We had them in a couple smaller rooms and it cracked me up even seeing them in there, kind of like monster truck wheels on a Civic  The smaller models are similarly amazing though, so you could always go for them.


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## jononotbono (Sep 10, 2019)

Kaufmanmoon said:


> Nearly everyone here recommending monitors. I'd rather spending £800 on treatment of my room and £200 on monitors than the other way around. I'd just to laugh this off until I put treatment up in my room and heard my cheap Tannoy's sounding like completely different speakers after. I upgraded to focals later on but treatment before monitors is the best lesson i've evert learnt. I know it's cliche, but it's the truth. Sonarworks helped massively me too.



Yep. You can buy the best speakers in the world but put them in a shit room and they are useless. Sonarworks is great for crappy rooms but sorting out the room before anything is the best way to go. Unfortunately most people have crap rooms to work in (that for many reasons can’t do anything structural to fix them - or they just aren’t big enough) so room EQ is a good solution.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 10, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> they would work better in a small room than the A77X





bengoss said:


> At the end I would say the most important is your room. Every speaker sounds different in a different room.





clisma said:


> - before purchasing a Subwoofer, do consider the size of your room: if it’s to small you might be doing more damage than good





clisma said:


> - similarly, if you purchase a speaker that is to powerful without a room that is able to accommodate that power (read, size), you might again make more trouble. Maybe leave some room in the budget to treat your space. It makes THE most difference. Or consider a smaller speaker.





kgdrum said:


> *edit* I totally agree with Clisma if you're in a small room I'd probably avoid a sub,more often than not it will cause more problems.





Okay, here's my take: yes you probably don't want to overpower a closet with giant UREI 813s (36" x 31"); and yes of course the room is part of the sound.

But good speakers start off good in any room. So find good speakers and then - *after* you identify the problems in your room - fix them! There is no room too small for any of the speakers in this conversation.

And the idea that you shouldn't have a subwoofer because it's producing frequencies you don't want to deal with makes no sense to me. Why would you not want to know whether you're sending out unwanted thuds and pops below the cutoff of your other drivers?

Now, subs *can* have problems when they're not integrated well as part of a monitoring system. But that's a totally different issue from rejecting them because they produce low frequencies.

If you have too much bass, get some bass trapping. But don't compound problems with your monitoring setup because your room has problems.


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## clisma (Sep 10, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> And the idea that you shouldn't have a subwoofer because it's producing frequencies you don't want to deal with makes no sense to me. Why would you not want to know whether you're sending out unwanted thuds and pops below the cutoff of your other drivers?
> 
> Now, subs *can* have different problems when they're not integrated well as part of a monitoring system. But that's a totally different issue from rejecting them because they produce low frequencies.


Because you might live in an apartment as opposed to a house. Because if all you can hear is bass floating around your room your decision-making process will be compromised. Because it may not be mandatory for the style of music you write. It really depends on the room.

Either way, I’d argue that adding a subwoofer at a later time is pretty easy, and since I’m trying to stay within the practical realm of addressing what the OP requires, I would indeed add it at a later point. But hey, it’s a subjective decision for everyone and that’s totally fine; your point is quite valid.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 10, 2019)

clisma said:


> Because you might live in an apartment as opposed to a house. Because if all you can hear is bass floating around your room your decision-making process will be compromised. Because it may not be mandatory for the style of music you write. It really depends on the room.



Nein.

Well, if you live in an apartment and can't bother neighbors, all bets are off no matter what.

But most small speakers - meaning the 6" - 8" range (give or take) - cut off at about 60Hz. That doesn't mean useful response, it means they cut off so you hear nothing below 60Hz.

Things like hammer thuds and vocal pops are around 55Hz or lower. I recently caught one of those in an Omnisphere patch before sending some music off - which isn't to dis Omnisphere; on the contrary, it's to say even carefully programmed instruments like Omnisphere can have the stray thing like that. And synths in general are going to produce very low freqs.

Next hypothesis: having a sub or just having bass below small speakers' cutoff = overpowering bass or only bass. Well, that's only true if you turn the bass up too loud! Besides, subs that cross over at 80Hz are in the rumble range.

Accurate bass isn't overpowering, it's accurate.

As to the style of music, well, I personally want the main speakers I work on to tell me what's on the recording, not what their opinion is. That's independent of the style, although it's great having more than one reference.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 10, 2019)

Oh, and adding a sub later is okay as long as you know it's going to integrate well with your speakers. That's a moderately-sized if.

By the way, in the NS-10 days (NS-10s didn't go down very low) some engineers would put their hands on the cones to feel for stray rumble.


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## Kaufmanmoon (Sep 10, 2019)

clisma said:


> You are right of course. But this has been mentioned above, and the OP has said he has a separate budget for acoustic treatment available.


I missed this as I only read the original post. I've now wasted a minute or so trying to find the post you've mentioned and that's good to hear. I wish him well with his purchase of new speakers and stuff.


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## IoannisGutevas (Sep 22, 2019)

Thank you all for your replies! 

I read everything, got a bit late to reply but it was a busy week. 

I bought the Focal Solo 6 Be (I didn't buy the used Twin 6 Be because the reasoning behind the sale that the store gave me was less than satisfactory) and the Universal Apollo Audio Twin. Also ordered the acoustic treatment panels and basstraps and diffusers. 

Hopefully, I will have everything delivered to me in 10 days or so and I will move to the new room soon


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## TheKRock (Sep 23, 2019)

IoannisGutevas said:


> Thank you all for your replies!
> 
> I read everything, got a bit late to reply but it was a busy week.
> 
> ...


Hey mate, congrats on the focals! I have the solo Be's as well (best monitor I have personally ever owned!) I picked up the sub 6 last year and it has been nothing short of amazing! Highly recommend it when you can!


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## IoannisGutevas (Sep 23, 2019)

TheKRock said:


> Hey mate, congrats on the focals! I have the solo Be's as well (best monitor I have personally ever owned!) I picked up the sub 6 last year and it has been nothing short of amazing! Highly recommend it when you can!



Thank you! I hope they will be good! I am planning on getting the sub in the future but it was a bit pricey for my budget at the moment.


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## Architekton (Sep 23, 2019)

My advice - lots of treatment and Adam A77X or Dynaudio LYD 48. If you cant do good mixes with that, than you are in wrong business. :D


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## IoannisGutevas (Sep 23, 2019)

Architekton said:


> My advice - lots of treatment and Adam A77X or Dynaudio LYD 48. If you cant do good mixes with that, than you are in wrong business. :D



I ended up buying the Focal ones but your statement still stands. Let's hope I'm not in the wrong business


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## jononotbono (Sep 26, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I’ve recently been listening to music through a 5.1 set up with PMC speakers. Easily the greatest audio quality I have ever heard.



Scrap that. Today I listened for the first time to mixes specifically mixed in Auro3D 9.1 with PMCs. The additional upper front and rear horizontal plane monitors are just incredible for height and space in a mix.

It’s ruined Stereo forever 😂


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